text:
Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/AMA IRC Meeting log (2-12-05)/Pt.II

Continued from: AMA IRC Meeting log (2-12-05)

[13:30]  who knows how many people have tried to seek advocacy from mrs.hippie burning? ;) [13:30]  It's not really a fundamental change, it's within the Coordinator's purview. [13:30]  Administratively. [13:31] Right, it is just an administrative change, I agree with that Wally. [13:31]  We need to step lightly, though. [13:31]  We don't want to make it seem like you have to be Alan Dershowitz to remain in the group. [13:31]  but if he was in our group, he could have 5 stars, like me! [13:32]  :D [13:32] I would make the list of members accepting new cases a separate page that would be linked to the main page. [13:32]  how about you move the big list off into its own page [13:33]  and put the list of available or active members where it used to be [13:33]  Either way that sounds fine to me. [13:33] No, I don't agree with that Sam, because that is also the place where people join and can see who is already a member. [13:33]  I just want to make it easier for perspective clients [13:33]  they are unlikely to go searching our sub-pages [13:34]  We could put the new list at the top, perhaps? [13:34]  it would have to be a REALLY obvious link [13:34]  yeah [13:34]  Have the member page, list of members actively taking cases first, and then secondly list of users overall. [13:34] [[Wikipedia:AMA Advocates accepting inquiries? [13:34] <Wally|AMA> Members, rather. [13:34] <Wally|AMA> No, just put it all on the one. [13:34] <Sam_Spade> put yourself in a nube clients shoes [13:34] <Sam_Spade> new to the wikipedia [13:34] It can also be put into the box on the top. [13:34] <Wally|AMA> That works too. [13:34] <Sam_Spade> very confused, and needing help [13:35] <Sam_Spade> thats what we should design things for [13:35] <Sam_Spade> to make things easier for that client [13:35] <Wally|AMA> I agree with Sam. [13:35] <Wally|AMA> Especially since the vast majority of our clients do indeed fall into that category. [13:35] <Wally|AMA> We don't have four-year users coming around to ask for representation. [13:36] <Sam_Spade> most of the advocacy I do is integrating new users [13:37] <Sam_Spade> even big cases before the arb comitee usually involve nubes [13:37] <Sam_Spade> which is kinda sad, really [13:37] * Wally|AMA nods. [13:37] <Sam_Spade> since they prob should have been integrated better, so as not to end up there in the 1st place [13:37] <Sam_Spade> thats a meta-problem w the wikipedia generally, integrating nubes [13:38] <Sam_Spade> I'd like to see advocates putting alot of focus ot that [13:38] <Wally|AMA> Well that sounds like an issue for another day. :P [13:38] * Grunt is now known as GruntWillBBL [13:38] <Sam_Spade> anyhow, your clearly allowed to edit AMA pages, alex ;) [13:38] <Wally|AMA> For now, I think boxing members who are actively taking cases at the top of our member page should suffice. [13:38] <Sam_Spade> and we all 3 seem to generally agree on this [13:39] <Wally|AMA> Erm at the top of the page listing our members.' [13:39] * Angela is now known as angaway [13:39] <Wally|AMA> Hear hear. [13:39] <Sam_Spade> just make sure you keep that confused nube in mind [13:39] <Wally|AMA> Democracy is run by those who show up. [13:39] I have made a change to the AMA template with a new page. [13:39] thanks for letting me come to your meeting. gtg now. bye all [13:39] * angaway has left #AMA [13:41] Do you think this solves the problem? [13:41] <Wally|AMA> A new page or boxing active case-takers at the top of our current list? [13:41] <Wally|AMA> I think both do, but the latter does far more cogently than the former. [13:41] I added a link in the template box to a new page list. [13:42] I can add a list somewhere once members start listing themselves on that new page, no? [13:42] <Wally|AMA> Sam, what do you think? [13:42] <Sam_Spade> not sure, my wiki is slow [13:42] <Wally|AMA> In principle, that sounds fine. [13:42] <Wally|AMA> To me, anyway. [13:43] As of now, no one is listed as taking new cases, so please, guys go right ahead and add your names to that list and once I let everyone know we have such a list we can add a section to the AMA page as well. [13:43] <Sam_Spade> cool [13:43] What type of cases do you accept anyway? [13:44] * GruntWillBBL is now known as Grunt [13:44] <Wally|AMA> Anything at the mediation or arbitration level, pretty much. [13:44] <Wally|AMA> Subject to a user agreeing. [13:44] <Sam_Spade> wait a minute [13:44] do you have any examples? [13:44] <Sam_Spade> the vast majority of cases have nothing to do w arbitration or mediation [13:44] <Sam_Spade> I consider advocacy to be VERY vague [13:44] <Sam_Spade> as in just about any assistance [13:45] <Sam_Spade> helping people w problems to solve them [13:45] <Wally|AMA> Well, in general it has to be within the parameters of the dispute resolution process. [13:45] Sam is right, advocacy involves answering inquires from anyone who has problems with Wikipedia procedures. [13:45] <Wally|AMA> Otherwise it's advice. :P [13:45] <Wally|AMA> But this is our "cries for help" page: [13:45] answering inquiries isn't being an advocate [13:46] <Wally|AMA> We are here to render advice, though. [13:46] <Sam_Spade> I disagree, wally and jag [13:46] Advocacy starts with providing information. [13:46] <Sam_Spade> and second alex :) [13:46] <Wally|AMA> Well, I don't really concur, but the point is whatever we CALL it, we render assistance at any level. [13:46] <Wally|AMA> We give advice when its asked for, and provide advocacy when its called for. [13:46] okay, let me ask the question in another way [13:46] assume I were to join, what could I expect to do? [13:47] <Sam_Spade> hey, we should debate the definition of advocacy to death! That could REALLY waste time ;) [13:47] Often in the process of providing information to someone who makes an inquiry you can discover if they truly need someone to intervene in their dispute resolution process or to help them clarify it. [13:47] <Wally|AMA> lol Sam, we'd be like the government. ;) [13:47] <Sam_Spade> helping people who ask for help [13:47] <Sam_Spade> or working on building the AMA to be more able to help people whop need help [13:47] AMA_Advocates_accepting_inquiries is now seeking advocates... [13:47] <Wally|AMA> I think advocacy itself starts when we assist users actively involved in dispute res. [13:48] <Wally|AMA> Otherwise it's advice, to my mind, which any Wikipedian might offer. [13:48] <Wally|AMA> But they come to us, because lawyers make people feel safer, I guess. ;) [13:48] <Wally|AMA> Unless you're a doctor, of course. :D [13:48] What do you mean by "actively involved in dispute res.? Wally? [13:48] <Sam_Spade> lawyers scare me, actually [13:49] Me too! [13:49] <Wally|AMA> You are a lawyer, Alex. :) [13:49] Don't remind me, Argh! [13:49] <Wally|AMA> Hehe [13:50] <Wally|AMA> Well, by "actively imvolved in etc." (too lazy to type it out) I mean when we take a case from a user engaged in an RfC or beyond. [13:50] <Wally|AMA> Otherwise, we're giving advice, which any advocate indeed should do - I see advice as the only thing required of every advocate. [13:50] But if someone is potentially involved in a dispute or is getting into a dispute and they turn to an advocate for some guidance you do not think that is advocacy work? [13:51] Lawyers use the distinction between advice (what lawyers do) and legal information (just general understanding). But they are always arguing about that distinction and where to draw the line. [13:51] <Wally|AMA> Ah, I see. [13:52] <Wally|AMA> Well, we're not really lawyers, in the context that there is little actual law. [13:52] let's say I'm in a dispute. What are you going to do for me? [13:52] I find a lot of people are in need of an advocate but they couch it in terms of needing information, because they don't even know what an advocate is. [13:52] <Sam_Spade> I would talk to you [13:52] <Sam_Spade> and give you useful links [13:52] <Wally|AMA> Well, you put up a request and someone contacts you. [13:52] <Sam_Spade> and potentially advocate your case on the talk pages in question [13:52] <Wally|AMA> Usually it's quite quick, depending upon the number of active users, but there are occasional horror stories. [13:52] I think the analogy with law is that the DRP is the "law of Wikipedia" so in that way it is similar. [13:53] <Wally|AMA> Very true. [13:53] sam - your definition of advocate is pretty vague. can you be more specific? [13:53] <Wally|AMA> I consider our role advisory until the users specifically requests representation. [13:53] <Sam_Spade> not really [13:53] <Sam_Spade> I prefer it vague [13:53] <Wally|AMA> An advocate guides a user through the Dispute Resolution process. [13:53] <Wally|AMA> An advocate speaks for a user, and possibly in place of the user. [13:54] <Wally|AMA> Depending upon the user's wishes and knowledge of the WikiLaw, if we might call it that. :P [13:54] <Sam_Spade> DRP is only one part of the law of wikipedia, the real deal is Policy Library [13:54] <Wally|AMA> But DRP is the main operative part. [13:54] <Wally|AMA> That, standing Arbitration Committee rulings, and basic etiquette. [13:54] <Sam_Spade> I don't agree, but its not important [13:54] You see this discussion is useful for training advocates to understand what we are about. [13:55] at this point I'm completely clueless [13:55] Let me ask you jag123, what do you think advocacy is? [13:55] <Wally|AMA> What you're seeing some of, jag, are differing views of advocacy itself. [13:55] <Wally|AMA> There's no right answer. [13:55] alex - I [13:55] Im not really sure. I've only seen it in action once [13:56] I'm trying to get specifics but it's like pulling teeth [13:56] We do have a guide to advocacy page and a FAQ, have you looked at that information? [13:57] <Sam_Spade> I recently rewrote the guide to advocacy, BTW [13:57] <Sam_Spade> I made it lots vaguer ;) [13:57] AMA FAQs [13:59] <Wally|AMA> Part of being an advocate, in many ways, is finding your own way. [14:00] <Wally|AMA> Just like any other legal or quasi-legal system, there are differing views of how it should behave. [14:01] I think the simplest definition would be that an advocate is like an agent or surrogate for the person with the problem. You are stepping into their shoes and trying to see what you can do for them to help them out. [14:01] <Wally|AMA> That is certainly true. [14:01] <Wally|AMA> Beyond that, I think, it's a personal thing. [14:01] <Wally|AMA> You choose what it is you are. [14:01] what if a user is wrong? [14:01] <Wally|AMA> Like Plato with justice, we can speak for hours and only agree we're not really sure. :) [14:02] <Wally|AMA> Perhaps no one will take the case. [14:02] It is a confidential relationship to be built on trust. [14:02] <Wally|AMA> We're not public defenders; we're not required to answer every call. [14:02] I don't agree with that. The whole point is that we don't know who is "right" or "wrong". [14:02] <Sam_Spade> I do! [14:02] <Sam_Spade> :D [14:02] <Sam_Spade> its my super-power ;) [14:03] <Wally|AMA> Well, its an area that is occasionally grey, and occasionally not. [14:03] I know some advocates prefer to work with people with whom they agree, other advocates can respect that maybe they don't know everything and maybe they don't know if someone is right or wrong initially. [14:03] <Wally|AMA> If you take a case you're expected to follow through unless something notable comes to light of which the advocate wasn't informed. [14:03] alex -so what if someone is in front of the ArbCom, and they have blatantly broken various policies. How would you go about defending them? [14:03] Also if someone is really "wrong" about procedure then the advocate is really helping them to understand Wikipedia. [14:04] <Wally|AMA> Mitigation, jag. [14:04] okay [14:04] <Wally|AMA> Although ignorance of the law in general is not an excuse for breaking the law, we can argue that the user did not do it in bad faith. [14:04] Wally, jag123 asked me the question. [14:04] <Wally|AMA> Oh, sorry. [14:04] <Wally|AMA> :( [14:04] <Wally|AMA> Shit. [14:04] It is o.k., just give me the opportunity to answer first o.k.. Thanks. [14:05] * Wally|AMA delicately removes his foot from his mouth. [14:05] I think that if someone has so blatantly violated WP policy if they have an advocate they may not ever get to ArbCom. [14:06] And as Wally states even if it does get to that stage, there are lots of issues about "intention" and the willingness of the user to respect WP policies in the future. [14:06] If someone is just an ignorant nube they may not suffer the same penalty of someone who has wilfully been subverting WP policies over a long period. [14:07] Also the person may not really understand the process and might cause a lot of misperception of their own position. [14:07] An advocate can help make sure that the person is put in the best light before ArbCom so that they are treated fairly. [14:08] I see [14:08] ArbCom may not always do the best thing, so an advocate will help protect the person so they don't end up being abused by the process. [14:08] Wally, do you want to add anything to that? [14:08] <Sam_Spade> I personally have advocated for outrageously unpopular users, who were quite certainly wrong... today even ;) [14:08] <Wally|AMA> Just that there is a concrete difference between the nubes and dedicated vandals. [14:09] <Wally|AMA> For example, we have a lot of Lyndon LaRouche supporters on the Wiki. [14:09] <Sam_Spade> hehe, I'd say we have 1 [14:09] <Sam_Spade> HK [14:09] <Wally|AMA> We have enough, unfortunately. :P [14:09] <Wally|AMA> But these persons know the rules and break them anyway. [14:10] <Wally|AMA> A lot of nubes just walk in with a POV, don't get what we're doing and try to enforce their views. [14:10] Sam - the unpopular users who were quite certainly wrong, what did you do to help them? [14:10] <Wally|AMA> That's not to say they're right, or that its good, but benefit-of-the-doubt must be a catchphrase for both the AMA and the Wikipedia as a whole. [14:11] right, for new users, I understand [14:11] <Sam_Spade> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents [14:11] <Sam_Spade> scroll to the bottom [14:11] <Sam_Spade> thats today [14:11] Wrongful block? [14:12] <Sam_Spade> however, in another case, I withdrew when my client became clear in his intractability [14:12] <Sam_Spade> yeah [14:12] <Sam_Spade> that was paul vogel [14:12] <Wally|AMA> I remember reading that case. [14:12] <Sam_Spade> once I figured out he was pretty much just a vandal, I gave up on him [14:12] <Wally|AMA> Horrendous row, that was. [14:13] <Wally|AMA> And that's a big thing, jag - if a user's not honest with us, sometimes we can't do anything in good faith. [14:13] <Sam_Spade> I think HK should be allowed to edit, along w nazis and whatall, but they have to follow rules [14:13] <Wally|AMA> If a client lies to us or continues acting wrongfully even as we try to help them, then occasionally they must be left to fate. [14:13] <Sam_Spade> we shouldn't have bans based on POV, but some users need banned [14:14] Do you have any other questions jag123? [14:14] <Sam_Spade> I agree w wally [14:14] alex - let me just finish reading sam's stuff [14:14] I too, if someone is not cooperating with an advocate the advocate has no obligation to keep working with them, honesty is absolutely necessary. [14:15] Before we end the meeting I'd like to talk about the buddy system issue too. [14:15] <Sam_Spade> User:Dnagod never officially accepted me as his advocate, BTW [14:15] <Wally|AMA> Yeah, I'm unclear on this. [14:15] <Sam_Spade> so thats an unofficial case ;) [14:15] <Wally|AMA> You're doing the Dnagod thing, Sam? [14:16] <Sam_Spade> sorta [14:16] <Sam_Spade> ots pretty much over [14:16] <Wally|AMA> What ended up happening? [14:16] It is just a suggestion Wally that if one advocate wants to discuss his or her case with another advocate that other advocate is his/her "buddy". [14:16] <Sam_Spade> he is banned indefinately for making rude comments [14:16] <Wally|AMA> Oh. [14:16] <Wally|AMA> Sounds good to me, Alex, but I don't know if we have to formalize that. [14:16] <Sam_Spade> racist slurs, generally, not specific to a certain user, afaik [14:17] <Sam_Spade> it may help, formalizing it [14:17] <Wally|AMA> Ugh, bad times has by all. [14:17] <Wally|AMA> True. [14:17] <Wally|AMA> We should make it known that advice is available. [14:18] I'm back [14:18] <Sam_Spade> yes [14:18] <Wally|AMA> By the way, are we ever going to bring back up the working committee/coordinator thing? [14:18] <Wally|AMA> Because I've rather changed my mind regarding the committee. [14:18] <Sam_Spade> indeed we should mention in our members statements if we are willing to be a "buddy" or whatnot [14:19] <Wally|AMA> Very true - perhaps a star might be used for that next to our names on the member list. [14:24] <Wally|AMA> Anyone still here? [14:24] <Sam_Spade> yo [14:24] yep [14:24] yeah [14:24] <Sam_Spade> I'm gonna leave son tho [14:24] <Wally|AMA> Everything kinda stopped, it was a little freaky. [14:25] <Sam_Spade> my oldest wants online after doing his chores ;) [14:25] <Wally|AMA> Did someone fart or something? ;) [14:25] I admit I left the room for a minute. [14:25] <Wally|AMA> Well, then you must be disbarred. [14:25] <Wally|AMA> ;D [14:25] <Sam_Spade> I've been arguing about being an advocate on my talk page ;) [14:26] You still arguing with yourself Sam? ;) [14:26] <Sam_Spade> nope, I have a couple opponents [14:26] <Sam_Spade> anyhow, I'm willing to be a buddy [14:26] <Sam_Spade> and an active advocate [14:26] I have been and continue to be willing to bud. [14:26] <Sam_Spade> but I demand 5 stars and a permanant position as :Imperator" [14:27] <Sam_Spade> ;) [14:27] I think AMA should be a barnstar freezone. [14:27] <Sam_Spade> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AMA_Advocates_accepting_inquiries [14:27] <Sam_Spade> that page seems to be unfinished... [14:27] <Sam_Spade> boo, hiss [14:27] <Sam_Spade> I have 2 barnstars [14:27] <Wally|AMA> Concur with Alex. [14:28] <Wally|AMA> If any of us wanted, we could all just start awarding each other barnstars on a rotating basis. [14:28] lol [14:28] <Wally|AMA> In a month or so we could each have twenty or so. [14:28] <Wally|AMA> And be real proud of our work. ;) [14:28] I just started that page, Sam, a few minutes ago. [14:28] <Sam_Spade> I agree w myself, and second the motion to adjourn [14:28] Can I add you Sam and Wally to that page? [14:29] <Sam_Spade> please do [14:29] What about the next meeting? Any suggestions? [14:29] <Sam_Spade> lets do it more often [14:29] <Sam_Spade> set 2 regular times [14:29] <Sam_Spade> and have them every week [14:29] I guess if I deputize people I need something like a deputy star. [14:29] <Wally|AMA> Surely. [14:29] Two meetings a week is a lot of meeting. [14:29] <Sam_Spade> like on sundays and wedsdays, or some such [14:29] <Wally|AMA> I can't make it next weekend. [14:30] <Sam_Spade> well I won't be coming ;) [14:30] <Wally|AMA> (Which I had thought was THIS weekend) [14:30] <Sam_Spade> but more communication is good [14:30] <Sam_Spade> how about we simply use this IRC room to have informal chat whenever? [14:30] Maybe in two weeks, it seems that the three of us are defintely the "working group", no? [14:30] <Wally|AMA> I think it would seem so. [14:31] <Sam_Spade> formal meetings can be less often [14:31] <Wally|AMA> I just wish some other user on this network hadn't reserved "Wally". [14:31] I have no problem with using the IRC channel for chats, it can also be used for private meetings with clients, no? [14:31] <Wally|AMA> Absolutely. [14:31] <Sam_Spade> yeah [14:31] Should we have office hours? [14:31] <Sam_Spade> but we should mention it somewhere that its ok, or recommended [14:32] I will add something to that effect on a new page I am going to start called member activities. [14:32] <Sam_Spade> cool [14:32] That is where I will post the proposal for the certification process, maybe we should meet to discuss that in a few weeks. [14:32] <Sam_Spade> I like the fact that we are emphasizing pro-activity and concensus, and not beurocracy and voting [14:32] <Wally|AMA> Consensus is preferable where possible. [14:33] Do we really even have enough members interested in participating for a vote? [14:33] <Sam_Spade> we should have a co-ordinator election at some point, at least for propriety [14:33] If we communicate that is much better than constant voting, no? [14:33] <Sam_Spade> but I think we'd need candidates 1st [14:33] Yes, I agree, are you running for the job Sam? ;) [14:33] <Sam_Spade> I can't imagine anybody other than alex would win [14:33] <Sam_Spade> but certain members seem to think its necessary [14:33] <Sam_Spade> heck no [14:34] Maybe we can get some of those larouche people to pack the membership and then he could finally win an election? [14:34] <Sam_Spade> maybe to ensure you win? [14:34] <Sam_Spade> HK didn't vote for me for arbitration comitee ;( [14:34] That would be some way to get publicity "Larouche for AMA Coordinator!" LOL! [14:35] <Sam_Spade> at some point I want to talk about combating the trend towards viting on the wiki [14:35] <Sam_Spade> but thats a big topic [14:35] OK, I admit it my dentist gave me some powerful painkillers yesterday and I'm a bit out of it today. [14:35] <Wally|AMA> lol [14:35] What is 'viting on the wiki" Sam? [14:36] <Sam_Spade> I'm not drunk, in case it matters [14:36] <Sam_Spade> *voting [14:36] <Sam_Spade> I've had alot of tea tho [14:36] <Sam_Spade> working on my 3rd liter [14:36] Glad to hear we can enter into a contractual obligations with you Sam. [14:36] I'm a T brain too. [14:37] <Sam_Spade> I drink massive amounts of green tea, no creme, no suger [14:37] <Sam_Spade> it prevents cancer [14:37] <Sam_Spade> and I'm a health nut [14:37] I think that we are publishing all our discussions so there is transparancy. [14:37] Is that the only kind of nut your are Sam? [14:37] <Sam_Spade> I'm also a gun nut [14:37] Where did you say you lived? [14:38] <Sam_Spade> :D [14:38] <Sam_Spade> currently Germany [14:38] <Sam_Spade> but that varies alot [14:38] I remember not to disagree with you if you are within 300 miles of my location. [14:38] "I will remember" that is. [14:38] <Sam_Spade> I have alot of connections ;) [14:38] So do I, Russian, live in Brooklyn, KGB capitol of the world now. [14:39] <Sam_Spade> thats interesting [14:39] <Wally|AMA> Dammit. Why don't Anglo-Swedes have connections? [14:39] <Wally|AMA> ;) [14:39] <Sam_Spade> I study organized crime / secret societies / gangs [14:39] <Sam_Spade> militias, etc... [14:39] I think as long as we keep posting everything on our WP pages and wait to implement anything that is discussed here that it is a good substitute for viting. [14:40] <Sam_Spade> yeah [14:40] Is it true that the pope is a freemason? [14:40] <Sam_Spade> but alot of this stuff you can just "do" as co-ordinator [14:40] <Wally|AMA> Is it true that the Pope has been replaced with a Disney animatron? [14:40] <Sam_Spade> I donno, but check out infowars.com [14:40] I still prefer to give members notice. I would love it if someone started a discussion about any of these issues. [14:41] <Sam_Spade> infowars.com/ infowars.com is fringe, does not meet our sourcing guidelines and should not be used [14:41] <Sam_Spade> it prob sez on there ;) [14:41] <Sam_Spade> if not, try a chick tract [14:42] <Sam_Spade> http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.asp [14:42] <Sam_Spade> :D [14:43] <Sam_Spade> I do know that Hitler rides on a vril-powered UFO w subteranean lizard folk in the hollow earth, tho ;) [14:43] * Grunt is now known as GruntWillBBL [14:45] <Wally|AMA> I knew it! [14:45] <Sam_Spade> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_mysticism#References [14:45] Sam, Wally I've added links to your talk pages about advocacy. If you want to put in some kind of statement after your names, feel free. [14:45] <Wally|AMA> They all said I was crazy! [14:45] <Sam_Spade> references on that last part ;) [14:45] <Wally|AMA> But there were subterranean lizards! [14:45] <Wally|AMA> Surely. [14:45] <Sam_Spade> great, thanks alex [14:45] I've got to go. It was nice meeting all of you [14:45] <Sam_Spade> apparently a cult in brazil says jesus rides on a spaceship w bigfoot [14:46] <Wally|AMA> Nice meeting you, jag. [14:46] <Sam_Spade> I have a theory that he has space battles w hitlers lizard folk, but no citations as of yet ;) [14:46] Have a good day all! [14:46] * jag123 has left #ama [14:46] <Sam_Spade> have a good one, I'm taking off too, before the kids mutiny [14:47] * Sam_Spade has quit IRC [14:54] * alex756 The AMA meeting is ending at 3:00 PM EST, 20:00 UTC. [14:54] <Wally|AMA> Hasta luego, Alex. [14:54] OK Wally, we'll be in touch. [14:54] <Wally|AMA> Thanks for all the help & hard work. :) [14:54] * Wally|AMA has quit IRC (""Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something." - last words of Mexican outlaw Pancho Villa, 1921.")


text:
Cradley

Cradley may refer to:

 * Cradley, Herefordshire, England
 * Cradley and Storridge, a civil parish formerly called just "Cradley"
 * Cradley, West Midlands, a suburb of Halesowen in the West Midlands
 * Cradley Heath, a small town in the Sandwell borough, in the West Midlands
 * Cradley Heathens, a motorcycle speedway team from Dudley, England

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cradley


text:
Emperor Norton Records

Emperor Norton Records was a Los Angeles-based electronica, hip-hop, and dance-music record label. Among the artists featured on the label were Ladytron, Arling & Cameron, Money Mark, Ugly Duckling, and Fantastic Plastic Machine. Additionally, it released the soundtracks to movies including Lost in Translation, CQ and The Virgin Suicides.

The company was named after Joshua A. Norton, a San Francisco citizen noted for proclaiming himself Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico in 1859. The record label was founded by Peter Getty, and the company was purchased by Rykodisc in 2004 and was then acrimoniously shut down later that year, with Rykodisc inheriting its back-catalog.

On March 23, 2006, it was announced that Warner Music Group acquired the Ryko Corporation for $67.5 million.

Artists

 * Air
 * Arling and Cameron
 * Buffalo Daughter
 * Bertrand Burgalat
 * Call & Response
 * Cato Salsa Experience
 * Cinemaphonic: Electro Soul
 * Codec and Flexor
 * Cords
 * DJ Me DJ You
 * Electrocute
 * Fantastic Plastic Machine
 * Felix Da Housecat
 * Golden Boy
 * Green Romance Orchestra
 * Bruce Haack
 * Ladytron
 * Logan's Sanctuary
 * The Maxwell Implosion
 * Midnight Movies
 * Takako Minekawa
 * Miss Kittin
 * Money Mark
 * Mount Sims
 * Ralph Myerz and the Jack Herren Band
 * Olivia Tremor Control
 * Pepe Deluxé
 * Permafrost
 * Phaser
 * Schroeder's Cat
 * Senor Coconut
 * Soul Ecstasy
 * Sunshine Fix
 * Titán
 * Ugly Duckling
 * The Upper Crust
 * Velma
 * The Virgin-Whore Complex
 * Zoobombs

Soundtracks

 * CQ
 * Lost in Translation
 * Thinking XXX
 * The Virgin Suicides

title: Emperor Norton Records


text:
Category:Rice drinks

This category contains fermented or unfermented drinks made from rice.

title: Category:Rice drinks


text:
Mike Hinge

Mike Hinge (born Michael Barry Hinge, Auckland, August 9, 1931 – Philadelphia, August 2003) was an illustrator and graphic designer.

His work included portraits with a pop art influence for the cover of Time magazine: Japanese Emperor Hirohito in October, 1971 and Richard Nixon, as the Watergate crisis deepened, in November 1973. The artwork for both covers are now held by the Smithsonian.

title: Mike Hinge


text:
William Sturges Bourne

William Sturges-Bourne PC (7 November 1769 – 1 February 1845), known as William Sturges until 1803, was a British Tory politician. He was briefly Home Secretary under George Canning in 1827.

Background and education
Born William Sturges, he was the only son of the Reverend John Sturges and his wife Judith (née Bourne). He was educated at Winchester College and Christ Church, Oxford, and was called to the bar at Lincoln's Inn in 1793. In 1803, Sturges inherited property from his uncle Francis Bourne, requiring him to add the surname Bourne to his own.

Political career
At Oxford he became good friends with George Canning, who helped him become elected to parliament for Hastings in 1798. In Pitt's second government, Sturges Bourne became Secretary to the Treasury, and, after a period out of government during the Ministry of All the Talents, he became a Lord of the Treasury from 1807 to 1809, retiring along with his ally Canning from the government. Sturges Bourne left parliament after the 1812 general election, but, due again to Canning's influence, became a Privy Councillor in 1814, and returned to parliament for Bandon Bridge in 1815. In 1814 he became a commissioner on the Board of Control, remaining in this office until 1822. He also served from 1818 to 1819 as Chairman of a Committee to reform the Poor Laws, which was successfully carried out as the Sturges Bourne Acts.

Although he retired from government in 1822 due to a large inheritance, he returned to government as Home Secretary when Canning became prime minister in April 1827. He only served briefly in this post, becoming instead First Commissioner of Woods and Forests when the Whig grandee Lord Lansdowne joined the ministry as Home Secretary a few months later. He was offered the Chancellorship of the Exchequer several times by Canning's successor Lord Goderich, but turned it down, leading Colonial Secretary William Huskisson to accuse him of sabotaging the ministry. Sturges Bourne retired from government with Wellington's accession as premier in February 1828. Sturges Bourne supported Catholic emancipation, but opposed the Whig Reform Bill, and retired from parliament in 1831. In his later career, he served as a member of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws.

He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in April 1826

Family
Sturges Bourne married Anne, third daughter of Oldfield Bowles, in 1808. He died at Testwood House, New Forest, Hampshire, in February 1845, aged 75.

title: William Sturges Bourne


text:
Talk:Powidl

Translation
moved from WP:TIE:
 * Article: de:Powidl
 * Corresponding English-language article: Powidl
 * Worth doing because: broaden people's knowledge.
 * Originally Requested by:--61.112.214.176 18:58, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Status: Thank you User:Burschik! --Sheynhertz-Unbayg 08:35, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Lekvar
Both articles should be integrated. Xx236 08:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here. If you have concerns, please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 12:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Wrong interwiki
Guys, the very first sentence says "unlike the German Pflaumenmus" but the German interwiki links up Pflaumenmus instead of Powidl.--Cancun771 (talk) 09:23, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

 * But the article is wrong about no usage of sweetener and stuff. By Austrian law, sugar is permitted and used in powidl, so interlinking is ok from my point of view. Here an Austrian product description in German:
 * Rechtlich vorgeschriebene Produktbezeichnung
 * Powidl (Pflaumenmus)
 * Zutaten: Pflaumen, Zucker, Säuerungsmittel Citronensäure, Konservierungsstoff Kaliumsorbat. Hergestellt aus 300g Früchten je 100g which translates to
 * Legally required product name
 * Powidl (plum jam)
 * Ingredients: Plums, sugar, acidifier citric acid, preservative potassium sorbate. Made from 300g fruit per 100g
 * https://www.austriansupermarket.com/darbo-powidl-fruit-spread-5-kg-bucket 2003:C9:7F2F:6526:8DE1:736D:EE8F:12D (talk) 19:58, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Powidl


text:
Enslavement of Beauty

Enslavement of Beauty is a symphonic black metal band from Oslo, Norway. Enslavement of Beauty was formed in January 1995 by Ole Alexander Myrholt (vocals & lyrics) and Tony Eugene Tunheim (guitars & composing). The band spent the subsequent years composing and recording material and thereby developed their expression. In the summer of 1998, Enslavement of Beauty recorded the demo CD "Devilry & Temptation" which gained them a deal with Head Not Found/Voices of Wonder. This resulted in the 1999 release "Traces O' Red" which received very positive response. In November 2000, they recorded their second album, "Megalomania", accompanied by drummer Asgeir Mickelson (Borknagar/Spiral Architect) and bass player Hans-Aage Holmen. In 2007 the third album, "Mere Contemplations" has been released with the I.N.R.I. Unlimited label. Lyrically, Enslavement of Beauty is highly influenced by the works of William Shakespeare and Marquis de Sade.

Demo
All music by Tony Eugene Tunheim. Lyrics by Ole Alexander Myrholt, except for "Sonnet #CXLIV" by William Shakespeare.
 * 1998 – Devilry and Temptation

Track listing Length 20:00
 * 1) The Masquerade of Rhapsody - 3:33
 * 2) Colleen - 1:54
 * 3) Sonnet #CXLIV - 4:26
 * 4) And to Temptation's Darkness Forever Abide - 5:59
 * 5) Scarlet - 3:38

Albums

 * Traces o' Red (Head Not Found, 1999)
 * Megalomania (Head Not Found, 2001)
 * Mere Contemplations (INRI Recordings, 2007)
 * The Perdition EP (2009)
 * And Still We Wither (compilation, 2018)

title: Enslavement of Beauty


text:
Kiribati national football team

The Kiribati men's national football team is the national men's football team of Kiribati and is controlled by the Kiribati Islands Football Association. Kiribati is not a member of FIFA but is an associate member of the Oceania Football Confederation (OFC), and is therefore not eligible to enter the FIFA World Cup but may enter the OFC Nations Cup. It became a provisional member of the N.F.-Board on 10 December 2005.

Kiribati is also a member of the ConIFA.

Background
Kiribati have only ever played 11 International matches up to April 2012 where they scored 7 goals and conceded 125. All of these matches were played away from home due to the lack of grass pitches in the archipelago. The Bairiki National Stadium has a sand pitch rather than grass. Kiribati's first match took place in Fiji on 30 August 1979 when they played Fiji, losing 24–0 in a South Pacific Games match. The side have never won a match but came very close when they lost 3–2 to fellow minnows Tuvalu on 30 June 2003 in Pool A of the South Pacific Games in Fiji, as well as losing 4–2 in penalties to Tuvalu in the consolation round of the 1979 South Pacific Games. Kiribati's only two goals in the 2011 Pacific games were scored by Karotu Bakaane versus Papua New Guinea and Erene Bakineti versus Tahiti, but in the 2003 competition, both goals against Tuvalu came from Lawrence Nemeia on the 26th minute and the 46th minute.

In 2012, Scotsman Kevin McGreskin became the team's coach, with the aim of improving its results and obtaining recognition from FIFA.

On 10 April 2015, Jake Kewley was officially appointed as the Manager and Ambassador for the Kiribati Islands National Football Team with the remit of liaising with the relevant footballing bodies to advance Kiribati's prior membership applications, with a FIFA application being drafted, finalised and submitted later that year.

On 6 May 2016, Kiribati was formally accepted as the newest member of ConIFA (Confederation of Independent Football Associations), becoming the first ever Oceanic member to join the federation. Kiribati hosted an official visit from ConIFA in November 2016 for the national football competition in Tarawa – Taiwan Sport Tournament – with ConIFA documenting the tournament whilst in the country. Kiribati qualified for the 2018 ConIFA World Football Cup, that was held in England. However, Kiribati were forced to withdraw, with Tuvalu taking their place.

2024
Kiribati has not played any matches since 2011 Pacific Games.

Coaching history

 * 🇰🇮 Pine Iosefa (2003–2011)
 * Kevin McGreskin (2012)
 * 🏴 Jake Kewley (2015)

Last squad

 * Squad selected for the 2011 Pacific Games:

! colspan="9" style="background:#b0d3fb; text-align:left;"|
 * - style="background:#dfedfd;"

! colspan="9" style="background:#b0d3fb; text-align:left;"|
 * - style="background:#dfedfd;"

! colspan="9" style="background:#b0d3fb; text-align:left;"|
 * - style="background:#dfedfd;"

Player records
Note: Missing goalscorers from 1979.

Head-to-head record
Up to matches played on 5 September 2011.

Results
Kiribati's score is shown first in each case.

title: Kiribati national football team


text:
The Alienist

The Alienist is a crime novel by Caleb Carr first published in 1994 and is the first book in the Kreizler series. It takes place in New York City in 1896, and includes appearances by many famous figures of New York society in that era, including Theodore Roosevelt and J. P. Morgan. The story follows Roosevelt, then New York City police commissioner, and Dr. Laszlo Kreizler, as their investigative team attempts to solve gruesome murders through new methods including fingerprinting and psychology. The first murder victim investigated is a 13-year-old immigrant who has had his eyes removed, his genitals removed and stuffed in his mouth, and other injuries. The investigators deal with various interest groups that wish to maintain the status quo regarding the poor immigrant population in New York City. The sequel to the novel is The Angel of Darkness.

The book made best-sellers lists of Publishers Weekly and The New York Times the month it was published, and film rights to the story were purchased by producer Scott Rudin and Paramount Pictures. The film studio has since moved the rights over to its television division, where a 10-part event TV series adaptation began its run on January 22, 2018, on TNT. The Alienist received generally positive reception. Booklist described it as "superbly atmospheric and compelling", Forbes called the work a "fascinating, fast-paced spine-tingler", and author Paul Levine wrote in the Chicago Tribune "at the end the reader thirsts for another tale of Dr. Laszlo Kreizler". The Houston Chronicle characterized it "an out-and-out page-turner", and The Seattle Times noted "Carr brings the dual sensibilities of historian and novelist to the story."

Plot summary
Narrated from the first-person perspective of John Moore, a crime reporter for The New York Times, the novel begins on January 8, 1919, the day that Theodore Roosevelt is buried. Moore has dinner with Laszlo Kreizler, the famous alienist. Kreizler is surrounded by those he has rescued, including his black servant, Cyrus Montrose, and a boy named Stevie "Stevepipe" Taggert. (Mary Palmer, another patient and Kreizler's housekeeper, is deceased by the time of this dinner.) Together, they reminisce about their times with Roosevelt, but they focus on one moment: the spring of 1896 and their efforts to catch a serial killer on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. The novel is narrated in retrospect, with Moore commenting on the events and how they impacted later history.

At 2 AM on March 3, 1896, Moore is awakened by one of Kreizler's servants banging incessantly on his door. Stevie, a young boy whom Kreizler had saved from being institutionalized and who is dedicated to Kreizler, brings Moore to the scene of a crime that Kreizler wants Moore to see. Roosevelt, the police commissioner, is already at the scene. When Moore sees the nature of the brutal murder, he is appalled. The victim, Georgio "Gloria" Santorelli, is a 13-year-old boy who prostituted himself by dressing up as a girl; the boy's wrists are tied behind his back, and he is kneeling with his face pressed on the steel walkway where he was found. Though makeup paint and powder on his face are still intact, his eyes are gouged out, his right hand is chopped off, his genitals are cut off and stuffed between his jaws, he has huge gashes across his entire body, his throat has been slashed, and his buttocks are "shorn off". The policeman at the scene, Detective Sergeant Connor, makes it clear that murders of such victims are usually ignored.

At Roosevelt's request, Moore, Kreizler, and he meet the following morning in Roosevelt's office to discuss the case. Kreizler has examined the body and disagrees with the official coroner's report. He connects the Santorelli killing to that of a second case in which two children, Benjamin and Sofia Zweig, were killed and had their eyes gouged out. Roosevelt announces that there are two more murders that match the pattern. Roosevelt decides to investigate, but because Kreizler has such a dubious reputation as an alienist, and because the investigation will become politically difficult, he establishes a base of operations for them outside the police precinct. Politically, Roosevelt cannot afford to be associated with the investigation and is not involved with the day-to-day operations.

Kreizler asks for some young detectives who are open to new methods and receives the help of Marcus and Lucius Isaacson, two Jewish brothers who were hired when Roosevelt began removing corrupt police officers from the force. The Isaacsons bring sophisticated methods, such as the Bertillon system and fingerprinting, to the investigation, although these were not popular in New York City police departments at the time nor accepted in courts of law.

The group begins to investigate the victims, hoping to understand the mind of the murderer by understanding his victims. They interview Georgio Santorelli's mother and discover, for example, that there was discord in his family. Georgio's parents had learned of his being manipulated into performing sexual acts for older boys in school, and the father's response was to try to beat it out of the boy. Georgio eventually left home and lived on the streets as a male-for-male prostitute. They also read the emerging science of psychology, such as the works of William James. Another body is discovered, and the evidence suggests that the victim knew his attacker. The team also deduces that the killer's agility on rooftops suggests that he is familiar with mountain- or rock-climbing.

Kreizler, Roosevelt, Moore, and detective Sara Howard must deal with various interest groups during their investigation who wish to maintain society's status quo, including a corrupt police force, which takes bribes from owners of the brothels whose prostitutes include poor immigrants; the Catholic Church, which is wary of the potential power of an organized immigrant population; the Episcopal Church; and J. P. Morgan.

Characters

 * John Moore: a New York Times reporter and the narrator of the novel;
 * Dr. Laszlo Kreizler: the titular alienist of the novel;
 * Stevie Taggert: Kreizler's teenage groom and carriage driver;
 * Cyrus Montrose: Kreizler's valet and bodyguard;
 * Mary Palmer: Kreizler's housemaid;
 * Marcus and Lucius Isaacson: brothers and Detective Sergeants with the NYPD
 * Sara Howard: police secretary, friends with John Moore

Historical figures

 * Thomas F. Byrnes
 * Anthony Comstock
 * Michael Corrigan
 * James "Biff" Ellison
 * H. H. Holmes (mentioned only)
 * William James
 * Paul Kelly
 * Jack McManus
 * Adolf Meyer
 * J. P. Morgan
 * Jesse Pomeroy
 * Henry C. Potter
 * Jacob Riis
 * Theodore Roosevelt
 * Lincoln Steffens
 * Franz Boas

Composition and biographical background
The Alienist is set in the neighborhood where Carr lived, and he has spent hours wandering around it. He also spent a lot of time researching his book at the J. P. Morgan Library. Carr pitched the book as non-fiction, because he was afraid his agent and editor would not accept a fiction book from a non-fiction author. Only when the publisher was on the verge of buying the book did he reveal the truth. The novel "allowed him to exorcise some of his demons, mostly centered on his relationship with his father, which was stormy and sometimes violent." Carr did not reveal specific details of his family history, but said, "It's safe to assume that I know something about family violence...." and he told New York magazine, "I'm the only kid in my family who never tried to kill himself...I kind of figured somebody else was going to kill me anyway."

Carr's natural father, Lucien Carr, was a writer, who in the 1940s was at the center of a group of as-yet unknown writers (Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and William Burroughs). In the summer of 1944, he killed his former scoutmaster, a man who was enamored with him. One night, the scoutmaster supposedly made a move on Lucien Carr, and Carr stabbed him in the chest with his boy scout knife. Carr disposed of the body in the Hudson River, and together he and Kerouac got rid of the knife. Carr was sentenced to two years' jail time and Kerouac a few days.

Caleb Carr was "fascinated with the psychology of killers, who were subliminally acting out the pain of being controlled by monstrous parents by controlling and killing victims, seeking a release that would never come." As he explains, "For me it began in New York with the Son of Sam killings while I was in college...I think I can understand some of the kind of rage that's behind what they do. I can't understand the major portion of it because that's what leads to the violence they commit. But I can understand the germ of it."

Genre and style
The Alienist has been called a detective novel, an historical novel, and a mystery novel. It is set in 1896, "the moment in history when the modern idea of the serial killer became available", eight years after the Jack the Ripper case, and at a time when the word "psychopath" was new to scientists. Like E. L. Doctorow's 'Ragtime', the novel combines fact with fiction. Historical figures such as Lincoln Steffens, Jacob Riis, Anthony Comstock, and J. Pierpont Morgan appear briefly in the novel and interact with the fictional characters. Carr includes period details, such as descriptions of "sumptuous meals of turtle soup au clair, Creole eggs, broiled squab, saddle of lamb a la Colbert and 'a liter of smooth, dark Wurzburger (beer) that had a head as thick as whipped cream'".

Themes
In an interview with The Record, Carr stated he wanted to entertain the reader, while also staying faithful to the time period. Carr, a historian by training, wanted to find a form of writing where he could meld his interest in fiction with his knowledge of history. "The one thing I wanted to show was that people back then are a lot more like people today than we realize," said Carr. Carr researched the science and literature of the time period and noted, "The biggest challenge was to study the psychological literature of that day so that none of my characters would not know more than they could have known in terms of psychology. We're talking about a time when Sigmund Freud had just published his first book."

Author Paul Levine compares Kreizler to Sherlock Holmes and Sigmund Freud. He likens The Alienist to Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow; both stories fuse historical fiction with real characters from the time period. Levine notes the story serves as a "painless history lesson", and comments that the juxtaposition of J.P. Morgan's lifestyle with " the teeming tenements where police dare not enter", serve as "reminders that crime and class distinction are hardly new".

Carr said that "The Alienist is about how violent behavior is perpetuated from one generation to the next."

The Alienist "explores the causes of insanity and criminality, and ultimately the nature of evil".

Another theme is destiny, and the novel investigates New York City's destiny, "saying its basic character and problems have endured over history".

Sales and marketing
Random House paid Carr an advance of $60,000 for the book. Paperback rights were sold at auction to Bantam for $1,001,000. The book made Publishers Weekly 's list of best-sellers in April 1994, and during the summer of 1994 reached between no. 4 and no. 7 on The New York Times Best Seller list.

Reviews
The book has received generally favorable reviews; "while most critics found it entertaining, some said it was sometimes flabby with historical detail and its prose was less than literature." In a review published in Booklist, Brad Hooper calls The Alienist and Caleb Carr's sequel, The Angel of Darkness, "superbly atmospheric and compelling". A review of The Alienist in Forbes comments: "Wonderfully evocative of the age, this fascinating, fast-paced spine-tingler never flags." Writing for The Record, Laurence Chollet notes: "The story feels like a Sherlock Holmes tale, reads like a modern thriller, and is historically accurate." In his review in The Gazette of Colorado Springs, Victor Greto wrote: "Through his research into the New York of the late 19th century, [Carr] has also fleshed out an atmosphere and a time that, on the one hand, seems grimly real and unapproachably evil, but, on the other, is within our intellectual grasp." In her review for Tulsa World, Patricia Ann Jones wrote that the novel "breaks new ground on several fronts. As a historical novel it paints an unrivaled picture of New York. As a thriller it sets a new pace. But as a psychological study it stands completely on its own. The writing is quite simply, superb."

In his review of the book for the Chicago Tribune, Mortal Sin author Paul Levine writes: "the long story never becomes tedious, and at the end the reader thirsts for another tale of Dr. Lazlo Kreizler". Kathye Self of the Houston Chronicle characterizes the work as "an out-and-out page-turner about the first time a 'psychological profile' was used to track down a serial murderer". Christopher Lehmann-Haupt writes in The Tampa Tribune: "Carr has lovingly evoked not only a physical sense of old New York but the spirit of the time as well, when the powers in charge were worried about unrest among the masses of cheap immigrant labor." In a review for The Seattle Times, Deloris Tarzan Ament comments: "A contributing editor to Military History Quarterly, Carr brings the dual sensibilities of historian and novelist to the story." In his review for The Washington Post, novelist Jack Katzenbach argued that Carr's impeccable research and rich detail hindered the work's pace but rewarded readers by portraying "the excitement of a world on the verge of change, where invention was the stuff of daily miracle," specifically when it came to forensics.

According to The New York Times, "the only real weakness of the book lies in the stringent rationality of Kreizler's investigation. The more his logic makes sense the less threatening his quarry seems, at least to the reader....The story's fatalism grows tedious....Nor does it help that throughout most of the story none of the major characters are directly threatened by the killer. Of course, it is deplorable that children are being murdered. But none of them figure strongly enough in the story to arouse the reader's visceral identification." Scott Eyman of The Palm Beach Post was critical of the "flaccid dialogue" and "vague characters". Hary Levins from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch noted that the novel does include a few notable anachronisms. For example, the "heroes display an early (and highly improbable) political correctness toward blacks and homosexuals. And his detective team anticipates the feminist movement by enlisting a tough-minded career woman who's unafraid to pack a pistol and spout a bit of scatological English."

Film
Carr told the Orange County Register he had envisioned a film adaptation of his work while writing the story. "I was always aware that if done correctly, this could end up being a great movie. I grew up with the movies. I've written scripts. Movies are something I've always loved," he said. Carr thought of Emma Thompson to play Sara, and Anthony Hopkins or Sam Neill to play Kreizler.

Before the book was published, film producer Scott Rudin purchased the film rights to the novel for $500,000. In June 1993, Paramount Pictures bought the film rights to the novel for $750,000.

In January 1995, The River Wild director Curtis Hanson was reported to have been in the process of final negotiations with Scott Rudin and Paramount Pictures to direct The Alienist. By May 1995, Hanson was signed on as the film's director. Variety reported that the film's producers planned for filming to start in Spring 1995, with an intended Christmas release date in mind. Tony Award-winning playwright David Henry Hwang adapted the book for film. Scouts for the film visited Philadelphia in May 1995 to consider location shooting in the city. Film scouts for The Alienist were particularly interested in Philadelphia's Academy of Music, Eastern State Penitentiary, and Waterworks.

Paramount Pictures was concerned with the film's budget, which reportedly was almost $50 million. By 1997, multiple script drafts from three writers brought costs to approximately $2 million. After delays in production, Paramount Pictures told the group behind the film they had two months to set the project up at another studio. In a review of Carr's sequel The Angel of Darkness, Malcolm L. Johnson of The Hartford Courant cited concerns over how to depict the mutilation of the murdered prostitutes in the film, writing: "Questions about how to treat this gruesome element has perhaps delayed the film of The Alienist." When in a 1999 online chat with fans, set up by Time and Yahoo!, Carr was asked if there were film plans for The Alienist or The Angel of Darkness, he responded: "Only 'The Alienist,' and the attempts have been so bad that I have not yet sold 'Angel' to the movies. What happened was that a producer bought the rights and then decided he had to completely change the characters in the book. We got into a huge conflict, one that is actually ongoing."

TV series
In April 2015, Deadline Hollywood reported that Paramount Television had decided to use a three-year, first-look production deal they made with Anonymous Content productions to adapt The Alienist as an event TV series. Jakob Verbruggen was chosen to serve as director after Cary Fukunaga withdrew from the project.

title: The Alienist


text:
User:Midas~enwiki

Meinzer, O. E. and F. C. Kelton. Geology and Water Resources of Sulphur Spring Valley, Arizona. The U.S. Printing Office, Washington, DC, 1913.

Meinzer, O.E. (1922) Map of the Pleistocene lakes of the Basin and Range province and its significance: Geological Society of America Bulletin v 33, p541–552.

Meinzer, O.E. and Hare, R.F. (1915) Geology and Water Resources of Tularosa Basin, New Mexico. U.S. Geological Survey Water-Supply Paper 343, 317p.

Meinzer, O.E. and Kelton, F.C.(1913) Geology and water resources of the Estancia Valley, New Mexico: U.S. Geol. Survey Water-Supply Pap. 275, 89p.

Meinzer, O.E., 1923, The occurrence of ground water in the United States, with a discussion of principles: U.S. Geol. Survey, Water-Supply Paper 489, pp. 1-321, figs. 1-110, pls. 1-31.

Meinzer, O.E., 1923a, Outline of ground-water hydrology, with definitions: U.S. Geol. Survey, Water-Supply Paper 494, pp. 1-71, figs. 1-35.

Meinzer, O.E., 1927, Plants as indicators of ground water: U.S. Geol. Survey, Water-Supply Paper 577, pp. 1-95, figs. 1-15, pls. 1-12.

Meinzer, O.E., and Wenzel, L.K., 1940, Water levels and artesian pressure in observation wells in the United States in 1939: U.S. Geol. Survey, Water-Supply Paper 886, pp. 1-933.

Meinzer, O.E., 1942, Water levels and artesian pressure in observation wells in the United States in 1940: U.S. Geol. Survey, Water-supply Paper 908, pt. 3, North-Central States, pp. 1-288.

Meinzer, O.E., 1943, Water levels and artesian pressure in observation wells in the United States in 1941: U.S. Geol. Survey, Water-Supply Paper 938, pt. 3, North-Central States, pp. 1-232.

title: User:Midas~enwiki


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Maveric149

'''See Wikipedia talk:Template messages for continued discussion. This page is no longer being used.'''

In order to remain listed at Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with }), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is:, 29 July 2024 (UTC).

 * (Maveric149 | talk | contributions)

Statement of the dispute
Maveric149 has moved many templates including POV check and expand list to the talk pages, and replaced them with HTML comments. Many editors have protested (User talk:Maveric149 and Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Moving tags to talk pages?) and he stopped, but the damage needs to be cleaned up. If this is the wrong place to list this, I apologize, but no one offered an alternative. --SPUI (talk) 20:54, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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''{Add summary here, but you must use the section below to certify or endorse it. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}''

Evidence of disputed behavior
(provide diffs and links)
 * contributions (contributions, shows the many changes he has made)
 * On the Rebuttals to the cosmological argument article, User:Maveric149, removed the and  tags  and moved them to the talk page, replacing them with html comments. There was no discussion of this - indeed prior to User:Maveric149's action, the talk page did not exist.

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Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute
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This is petty and irrelevant. I have stopped doing the disputed behavior pending an outcome that resolves the underlying issues. So what is the point of this page? --mav 21:57, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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text:
Talk:Soil survey

Disputed
It is a branch of applied physical geography, and draws heavily from geomorphology, analysis of vegetation and land-use patterns, and theories of soil formation.

I qualified to be a soil mapper (USA) based on my degree in soil science. Same with all soil mappers I know active in Canada, Africa, Asia. Maybe there is a place out there that is different, but AFAIK no professional soil mapper is qualified solely by a university degree in geography.

Note: Soil science is an independent science (see IUSS), not a branch of geography (or geology, or agricultural sciences, or biology ...)

More accurate would be to replace the above with: It is a branch of soil science, and draws heavily from geomorphology, physical geography, and analysis of vegetation and land-use patterns.

Paleorthid 20:56, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would have to agree with Paleorthid on this. Perhaps a change in this verbage would be warranted.

Dylan B 8:51, 20 May 2006 (PST)

Article merge
Seeing how a soil survey is the precursor to a soil map, it seems that this article should be the primary article, and soil mapping derives from the use of this data. SCmurky 04:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree, although from a different perspective, and with some unresolved concerns. Published soil survey is the term for the final document and the individual soil map sheets are components of the soil survey. Thus: field soil survey > soil map > published soil survey. Either way, it seems that soil map would be a better subheading under soil survey than the reverse. Soil survey is also the more commonly recognized term, with 1,630,000 google hits on the phrase vs 363,000 for soil map as a phrase. Unresolved concerns:
 * The soil survey article is far too USA centric and needs to be restructured prior to merge.
 * Digital soil mapping, also proposed for merge (I basically agree), fits well as a heading under a soil map article, but seems like a poor fit under soil survey. I believe the way to resolve this is to instead merge digital soil mapping content with pedometrics, but also address it as a subheading in the soil survey article. -- Paleorthid 20:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Series? Catena?
Whatever happened to these terms? Are they no longer in use? Haven't worked with soil science much since graduate school long ago. 71.203.125.108 (talk) 18:18, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Soil survey


text:
Kaifi Azmi

Kaifi Azmi (born Athar Husain Rizvi; 14 January 1919 – 10 May 2002) was an Indian Urdu poet. He is remembered as the one who brought Urdu literature to Indian motion pictures. Together with Pirzada Qasim, Jaun Elia and others he participated in many memorable Mushaira gatherings of the twentieth century. He was also a communist who wanted to see India one day become a socialist state. His wife was theatre and film actress Shaukat Kaifi.

Early life
Azmi was born into a Shia Muslim family in the village of Mijwan in Azamgarh district of Uttar Pradesh. He got his title from the city of the same name.

Family
He was from a family of artists. His three brothers are also shayars (poets). Azmi was married to Shaukat Azmi. They have a daughter, Shabana Azmi who is an actress, and a son, Baba Azmi, a cinematographer. Azmi's daughter-in-law Tanvi Azmi is also an actress.

During Partition, he was underground in Aurangabad, as he was hounded by the British police for being a "card-carrying communist". His parents and his five brothers took the ship from Bombay to Karachi. By the time he surfaced, their ship had left.

He was denied a visa for Pakistan for several years despite the fact that his family lived there, because he was a communist.

Writings
At age eleven, Azmi wrote his first ghazal in Bahraich Itna To Zindagi Mein Kisi Ki Khalal Pade and somehow managed to get himself invited to a mushaira and over there, he recited a ghazal, rather a couplet of the ghazal which was very much appreciated by the president of the mushaira, Mani Jaisi, but most of the people, including his father, thought he recited his elder brother's ghazal. When his elder brother denied it, his father and his clerk decided to test his poetic talent. They gave him one of the lines of a couplet and asked him to write a ghazal in the same meter and rhyme. Azmi accepted the challenge and completed a ghazal. This particular ghazal was to become a rage in undivided India and it was immortalised as it was sung by legendary ghazal singer, Begum Akhtar. Azmi abandoned his studies of Persian and Urdu during the Quit India agitations in 1942 and shortly thereafter became a full-time Marxist when he accepted membership of the Communist Party of India in 1943. During this period, the leading progressive writers of Lucknow noticed him. They were very impressed by his leadership qualities. They also saw in him a budding poet and extended all possible encouragement towards him. Consequently, Azmi started to win great acclaim as a poet and became a member of Progressive Writers' Movement of India. At the age of twenty-four, he started activities in the textile mill areas of Kanpur. As a full-time worker, he left his life of comfort, though he was the son of a zamindar. He was asked to shift his base to Bombay, work amongst the workers and start party work with a lot of zeal and enthusiasm.

Poetry
Like most of the Urdu poets, Azmi began as a ghazal writer, cramming his poetry with the repeated themes of love and romance in a style that was replete with clichés and metaphors. However, his association with the Progressive Writers' Movement and Communist Party made him embark on the path of socially conscious poetry. In his poetry, he highlights the exploitation of the subaltern masses and through them he conveys a message of the creation of a just social order by dismantling the existing one. Yet, his poetry cannot be called plain propaganda. It has its own merits; intensity of emotions, in particular, and the spirit of sympathy and compassion towards the disadvantaged section of society, are the hallmark of his poetry. His poems are also notable for their rich imagery and in this respect, his contribution to Urdu poetry can hardly be overstated. Azmi's first collection of poems, Jhankar was published in 1943.

In 1944, he wrote a poem Ab Agli Id Ek Azad Pakistan Main Hogi — one of the works written by leading Progressive Writers of Urdu campaigning for Pakistan — although he later became bitter about the partition.

His important works including anthologies of poetry, were Aakhir-e-Shab, Sarmaya, Awaara Sajde, Kaifiyaat, Nai Gulistan, an anthology of articles he wrote for Urdu Blitz, Meri Awaaz Suno, a selection of his film lyrics, and the script of Heer Raanjha in Devanagari. His lyrics titled "Kar chale hum fida" featured in the soundtrack of the 1964 Hindi film Haqeeqat.

His best known poems are Aurat, Makaan, Daaera, Sanp, and Bahuroopni.

Films
Azmi's work in films includes working as a lyricist, writer, and actor. Azmi wrote his first lyrics for the film Buzdil, directed by Shaheed Latif and music by SD Burman, released in 1951. His early work as a writer was mainly for Nanubhai Vakil's films like Yahudi Ki Beti (1956), Parvin (1957), Miss Punjab Mail (1958) and Id Ka Chand (1964). While directors like Khwaja Ahmad Abbas and Bimal Roy strove to create the "New Cinema", writers like Sahir Ludhianvi, Jan Nisar Akhtar, Majrooh Sultanpuri, and Kaifi changed the tenor and vocabulary of the Hindi film song, creating a fresh new wave in Hindi film lyrics that lasted many years. His greatest feat as a writer was Chetan Anand's Heer Raanjha (1970) wherein the entire dialogue of the film was in verse. It was a tremendous achievement and one of the greatest feats of Hindi film writing. Azmi also won great critical accolades for the script, dialogues and lyrics of M.S. Sathyu's Garam Hawa (1973), based on a story by Ismat Chughtai. Azmi also wrote the dialogues for Shyam Benegal's Manthan (1976) and Sathyu's Kanneshwara Rama (1977). As a lyricist and songwriter, though he wrote for numerous films, he will always be remembered for Guru Dutt's Kaagaz Ke Phool (1959) and Chetan Anand's Haqeeqat (1964), India's greatest war film. Some notables films for which he wrote lyrics include Kohra (1964), Anupama (1966), Uski Kahani (1966), Saat Hindustani (1969), Shola Aur Shabnam, Parwana (1971), Bawarchi (1972), Pakeezah (1972), Hanste Zakhm (1973), Arth (1982) and Razia Sultan (1983). For Naunihal (1967), he wrote the song "Meri Aawaz Suno Pyar ka Raaz Suno" (Hear my voice, hear the secret of love) sung by Mohammad Rafi. The song is picturised over the funeral procession of Prime Minister of India, Jawahar Lal Nehru. Years later, after Azmi's own death his daughter, Shabana Azmi mentioned finding comfort in verses from the song. Azmi wrote the lyrics for Bible Ki Kahaniyan, the first Christian mythological television show broadcast in India. He also played a memorable role of Naseem's grandfather in Naseem (1995). Azmi died on 10 May 2002 at around the age of eighty-three. He was survived by his wife, daughter, and son. His autobiography is included in a collection of his works, Aaj Ke Prashid Shayar: Kaifi Azmi.

In media
Azmi was the subject of a documentary film called Diksha (2015), directed by Raman Kumar. In 1997, he recited his own poems for Kaifiyaat, an audio book on his collected works.

Kaifi Aur Mein, a play based on his life, his works and the memoir of his wife, Shaukat Azmi – Yadon Ki Rahguzar (Down Memory Lane), was written and performed by Javed Akhtar and Shabana Azmi, and performed in India as well as abroad in 2006. Another play, directed by Rani Balbir, Waqt Ne Kiya Kya Hasin Sitam, based on Kaifi Azmi's life and writings was staged in 2005, and received rave reviews.

Awards
He was the recipient of Padma Shri, India's fourth-highest civilian award in 1974. Besides he was awarded the Uttar Pradesh Urdu Academy Award and the Sahitya Akademi Award for Urdu for his collection Awaara Sajde, Special Award of Maharashtra Urdu Academy, Soviet Land Nehru Award, Lotus Award from the Afro-Asian Writers' Association, and President's Award for national integration. In 1998, Government of Maharashtra conferred the Jyaneshwara Award on him. He was also honoured with the prestigious Sahitya Akademi Fellowship for lifetime achievement.

Kaifi Azmi returned his Padma Shri in the 1980s after the then Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh Vir Bahadur Singh remarked that those speaking Urdu as a second language should be made to sit on a donkey and paraded. According to his daughter Shabana Azmi, her father replied that he had written in Urdu all his life, and if his State's Chief Minister held such views on the language, he, as a writer, must stand up for himself.

In 2000, he was conferred the first Millennium Award by the Government of Delhi and the Delhi Urdu Academy. He has also been honoured with a doctorate from Vishva Bharati University, Santiniketan.

Tribute
The government has also inaugurated a train named "Kaifiyat Express" which runs from his hometown Azamgarh to Old Delhi.

On 14 January 2020, search engine Google commemorated Kaifi Azmi with a Doodle on his 101st birth anniversary. Google commented: "With work ranging from passionate love poems and activist verses to Bollywood songs lyrics and screenplays, Azmi has become one of the most renowned poets of the 20th century in India, and his humanitarian efforts continue to impact people's lives today." There is street also named after him Kaifi Azmi road in Hyderabad. There is also a road in R. K. Puram, New Delhi named Kaifi Azmi Marg after him.

Sahitya Akademi Award

 * 1975: Sahitya Akademi Award: Awara Sajde
 * 2002: Sahitya Akademi Fellowship (Immortals of Literature)

National Film Awards

 * 1970: National Film Award for Best Lyrics: Saat Hindustani
 * 1973: National Film Award for Best Story: Garam Hawa (with Ismat Chughtai)

Filmfare Awards

 * 1975: Filmfare Award for Best Dialogue: Garam Hawa
 * 1975: Filmfare Award for Best Story: Garam Hawa (with Ismat Chughtai)
 * 1975: Filmfare Award for Best Screenplay: Garam Hawa

Select bibliography

 * Kaifi Azmi – Fan Aur Shaqsiyat (Urdu), Mayar Publications, 2004.
 * Kaifiyaat: Kulliyat-e-Kaifi Azmi (Urdu), Educational Publishing House, 2003. ISBN 8187667788.
 * Zehr-e-Ishq (Hindi), Vani Prakashan, 2003.
 * Heer Ranjha (Hindi), Vani Prakshan, 2003.
 * Steel Man was Here, Penguin, 2002.
 * Kaifi Azmi – Selected Poems and Life Sketch, Rajpal Publishers, 2002. ISBN 81-7028-395-7.
 * Aaj Ke Prashid Shayar: Kaifi Azmi – Chuni Hui Shayari (Hindi), Rajpal & Sons, 2002. ISBN 8170285429.
 * Meri Awaz Suno (Hindi), Rajkamal Prakashan, 2002.
 * Nai Gulistan Vol. 1 (Hindi), Rajkamal Prakashan, 2001.
 * Nai Gulistan Vol. 2 (Hindi), Rajkamal Prakashan, 2001.
 * Doosra Banwas (Hindi), Diamond Pocket Books Pvt. Ltd. ISBN 81-288-0982-2.
 * Awara Sajde (Hindi), Lokbharti Prakashan, 1995.
 * Sarmaya (Urdu), Mayar Publications, 1994.
 * Kaifi Azmi: Symbol of Resistance – Ranjit Hoskote. The Hindu, 19 May 2002.
 * Kaifi Azmi: A Poet and a Gentleman. The Times of India, 10 May 2002.
 * Kaifi Azmi: The Last Comrade-poet – Tarique Omum. The Milli Gazette. 1 June 2002.

title: Kaifi Azmi


text:
Talk:Southern Manifesto

Change Title
This title should be Southern Manifesto not The Southern Manifesto, as repeadtedly is errors are made when linking to this page. The Voting Rights Act and The Civil Rights Act of 1964 are similiarly not titled as such — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nobs (talk • contribs) 18:51, 30 March 2005 (UTC)

Interesting fact
Here is an interesting fact: Lyndan Johnson, who was at that time the senate majority leader, was never asked to sign, nor did he receive the document. Legislators felt his devotion to Civil Rights would stand in their way. Minche, 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minche (talk • contribs) 03:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This is relevant to the article (which mentions that Johnson did not vote, but does not mention his Civil Rights efforts at the time). If there were a citation we could add it to the article... (will try to dig one up myself) babbage (talk) 19:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Tennessee
It looks like we have the signatories and non-signatories in Tennessee reversed since the Badger article discusses Bass and Evins as signatories. I'll try to find another source to confirm that part of the list. JoshuaZ 15:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

 * There is definitely widespread confusion - it is because there were 5 Representatives that signed on between the time the list of names was read into the Congressional Record on March 12th, 1956 and the names were published in US News & World Report on March 23, 1956.
 * This includes Bass and Evins from Tennessee, and also Cramer, Jonas, and Dies Jr.
 * https://tigerprints.clemson.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2357&context=strom 174.74.149.26 (talk) 21:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Signatories and Non-Signatories
The "Signatories and Non-Signatories" section is completely confusing. I was left with very little idea who signed. Can someone impose clear order on the lists? And maybe some whitespace? The paragraph also mentions "below," but presumably means not immediately below but distantly below. HTH. —Christian Campbell 00:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that the list is not readable as-is. A side-by-side presentation would be better. Also, the presetn layout suggests that all Congress members are listed for all states; is this the case? babbage (talk) 19:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

The article states it was signed by "99 politicians," which would lead to 19 Senators and 80 Representatives. However, the article also states 82 Representatives. I count 78 in the list of signers. The text of the document itself says 77 Representatives, and I count 77 signers. Does anyone know what the correct number should be? Arnold Rothstein1921 (talk) 15:54, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Having reviewed the Wikipedia list against the signers to the document (found in an NPR archive) it looks like Martin Dies of Texas is the odd signer on the Wikipedia list. Did he sign?  It doesn't seem to be covered in the article about DiesArnold Rothstein1921 (talk) 17:53, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, Charles R. Jonas (R, NC) seems to be missing from the list of non-signers.Arnold Rothstein1921 (talk) 01:54, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

States' rights
I suggest making a link at this phrase to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States%27_rights — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.17.179.75 (talk) 17:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Confused about "opposition"
The article says "Senators led the opposition, with Strom Thurmond writing the initial draft and Richard Russell the final version".

But Senator Thurmond co-wrote the first draft of the Southern Manifesto which is also clear from Thurmond's article. How could he have led the opposition to it? Obviously something is unclear here, or else I am just confused. Help... 73.127.147.187 (talk) 03:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Southern Manifesto


text:
Michael Saucedo

Michael Saucedo (born July 11, 1970) is an American actor  best known for his role  on the soap opera General Hospital from 1999 until 2001, and he briefly returned in 2013 and 2014. He is also a musician and published author known for the "Liberty Strong" series.

Personal life
He is of Hispanic and Irish descent. After his parents divorced, Saucedo was raised by his mother. Saucedo has one brother and six half-siblings. They moved from Los Angeles to Grants Pass, Oregon, where he attended high school and was elected student body president. He joined garage bands in high school and showed no interest in acting. Saucedo attended Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota and attained a B.A. in African-American studies.

After graduation, not knowing what to do with his life, he decided to act and returned to Los Angeles. He married General Hospital star Rebecca Herbst (who currently plays Elizabeth Webber) in June 2001. They have three children: Ethan Riley (born October 31, 2001), Ella Bailey (born April 12, 2004), and Emerson Truett (born August 9, 2010). He also has a son from a previous relationship, Elijah Saucedo (born October 5, 1996).

Career
He began acting as a child in commercials, including one for Band-Aid. During high school, he became involved with garage bands, and only went back to acting after college. From 1999-2001, Saucedo was a cast member of General Hospital as Juan Santiago.

title: Michael Saucedo