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Abel Ferrara

Abel Ferrara (born July 19, 1951) is an American filmmaker, known for the provocative and often controversial content in his movies and his use and redefinition of neo-noir imagery. A long-time independent filmmaker, some of his best known movies include the New York-set, gritty crime thrillers The Driller Killer (1979), Ms .45 (1981), King of New York (1990), Bad Lieutenant (1992) and The Funeral (1996), chronicling violent crime in urban settings with spiritual overtones.

Ferrara also worked in a wide array of genres, including the sci-fi remake Body Snatchers (1993), cyberpunk thriller New Rose Hotel (1998), the religious drama Mary (2005), the black comedy Go Go Tales (2007), and the biopic Pasolini (2014), as well as in several documentary filmmaking projects.

Early life
Ferrara was born in the Bronx of Italian and Irish descent. He was raised Catholic, which subsequently influenced much of his work. At 8 years old, he moved to Peekskill in Westchester County, New York and he started making movies at Rockland Community College. Later, he attended the film conservatory at SUNY Purchase, where he directed several short films.

Early work 1971-1981
Ferrara studied at the San Francisco Art Institute; one of his teachers and influences there was the famous avant-garde director Rosa von Praunheim. In the early 1970s, while still in art school, Ferrara directed a number of independently produced short films which included The Hold Up and Could This Be Love. Finding himself out of work after leaving film school in 1976, Ferrara directed his first feature film which was a pornographic film titled, 9 Lives of a Wet Pussy, using a pseudonym. Starring with his then-girlfriend, he recalled having to step in front of the camera for one scene to perform in a hardcore sex scene: "It's bad enough paying a guy $200 to fuck your girlfriend, then he can't get it up."

Ferrara first drew a cult following with his second feature film, an exploitation movie titled The Driller Killer (1979), an urban slasher film about an artist (played by the director himself) who goes on a killing spree with a power drill. In the United Kingdom, the movie made it on a list of "video nasties" created by moral crusaders that led to prosecutions under the Obscene Publications Act 1959 and to the passing of new legislation which forced all video releases to appear before the British Board of Film Classification for rating.

The director's next feature was Ms .45 (1981), a "rape revenge" movie about a mute garment worker turned murderer (Zoë Tamerlis). Reviewers called it "a provocative, disreputable movie, well worth seeing".

Rise to international fame 1984-1998
In 1984, Ferrara was hired to direct Fear City, starring Melanie Griffith, Billy Dee Williams, Rae Dawn Chong and María Conchita Alonso. When a "kung fu slasher" stalks and murders young women who work in a seedy Times Square strip club, a disgraced boxer portrayed by Tom Berenger uses his fighting skills to defeat the killer.

Ferrara worked on two Michael Mann-produced television series, directing the two-hour pilot for Crime Story (aired September 18, 1986), starring Dennis Farina, and two episodes of the series Miami Vice.

King of New York (1990) stars Christopher Walken as gangster Frank White, Laurence Fishburne, Wesley Snipes, David Caruso and Giancarlo Esposito. The movie received overall mixed reviews, but Ferrara was praised for his strong command of mood and style. Critic Roger Ebert wrote, "What Ferrara needs for his next film is a sound screenplay."

Bad Lieutenant (1992) credits Ferrara and actress Zoë Tamerlis, who plays the woman who helps the Lieutenant freebase heroin in the movie, as co-writers of the script, but Tamerlis claimed that she wrote it alone. Bad Lieutenant received Spirit Awards nominations for Best Director and Best Actor, and despite its controversial content, the movie was lauded by critics. Director Martin Scorsese named it one of his top 10 films of the 1990s.

In 1993, Ferrara was hired for two Hollywood studio movies: another remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, titled Body Snatchers (1993), for Warner Bros.; and Dangerous Game (1993), starring Keitel and Madonna, for MGM.

In the mid-1990s Ferrara directed two well-received independent movies: The Addiction (1995), photographed in black-and-white, stars Lili Taylor as a philosophy student who succumbs to a vampire as she studies the problem of evil and philosophical pedagogy, represented by the most violent events of the 20th century. The movie also features Christopher Walken, Annabella Sciorra, Edie Falco, Kathryn Erbe and Michael Imperioli. It was co-produced by Russell Simmons.

The Funeral (1996), starring Walken, Sciorra, Chris Penn, Isabella Rossellini, Benicio del Toro, Vincent Gallo and Gretchen Mol, was nominated for five Independent Spirit Awards including Best Director.

Following the success of The Funeral, Ferrara had an infamous interview with Conan O'Brien on October 23, 1996. Ferrara was believed to be intoxicated and struggled through the interview, often slurring and covering his face as well as waving around a cigarette. O'Brien would later state that Ferrara was his "worst guest ever". Eventually, O'Brien revealed to Ferrara's frequent collaborator Willem Dafoe that Ferrara "ran away" and that the segment producer had to "run down the street" to catch him and bring him back to the set. Dafoe said to O'Brien, "You did your best...and so did he!"

After making The Blackout (1997) with Matthew Modine and Dennis Hopper, he contributed to the omnibus television movie Subway Stories. Ferrara then made New Rose Hotel (1998), which reunited him with Christopher Walken.

Move to Europe 2001 - present
Ferrara returned three years later with 'R Xmas (2001), which starred Drea de Matteo and Ice-T. He recorded commentaries for Driller Killer and King of New York and made Mary (2005), a religious-themed multi-plot movie starring Juliette Binoche, Matthew Modine, Forest Whitaker, Heather Graham, Marion Cotillard, and Stefania Rocca. Mary premiered at the Venice Film Festival in 2005. It swept the awards ceremony, garnering the Grand Jury Prize, SIGNIS Award and two others. It was shown at the Toronto International Film Festival.

In 2007, Ferrara directed Go Go Tales a comedy with Modine, Bob Hoskins and Willem Dafoe that premiered at the Cannes Film Festival but was not shown in the United States until a special screening at the Anthology Film Archives in 2011.

In 2009, Jekyll and Hyde was set to star Forest Whitaker and 50 Cent. After disagreements with Warner Bros., the movie was shelved in 2010.

In 2009, Napoli, Napoli, Napoli premiered out of competition at the 66th Venice International Film Festival. The docudrama received little attention and poor reviews but Werner Herzog's reboot Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans was selected for competition at the prestigious festival. Asked about the Herzog film, Ferrara was quoted widely saying "I wish these people die in hell".

In September 2011, 4:44 Last Day on Earth, starring Willem Dafoe and Shanyn Leigh, premiered at the main competition of the 68th Venice International Film Festival.

Ferrara's Welcome to New York, a fictionalized version of the Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexual assault case starring Gérard Depardieu and Jacqueline Bisset, was released on video on demand in 2014. Ferrara's Pasolini (2014) about the titular Italian director stars Willem Dafoe.

After a 4-year long hiatus, Ferrara came back in 2019 with Tommaso, a new feature starring Dafoe and set in Rome. The film had its world premiere at the 72nd Cannes Film Festival on 20 May 2019. It was released in the United States by Kino Lorber.

The following year, with Siberia (2020), Ferrara and Dafoe collaborated for the sixth time. Inspired by Carl Jung's The Red Book, the script was written by Ferrara and Chris Zois. The film had its world premiere at the main competition of the 70th Berlin International Film Festival, on 24 February 2020. It was released in the United States by Lionsgate in 2021. Shortly after Ferrara directed the documentary Sportin' Life, about the beginning of quarantine measures in Europe a few days after the Berlinale premiere of Siberia, during the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. The documentary had its world premiere at the 77th Venice Film Festival on 4 September 2020.

Since 2020 he has interpreted Gabriele Tinti's poetry giving voice to the masterpieces in the Galleria Nazionale d'Arte Antica, Pinacoteca di Brera, Museo Nazionale di San Marco, Ca' d'Oro, Musée Jacquemart-André and Museo Nazionale Romano

In August 2021, Zeros and Ones, starring Ethan Hawke, had its world premiere at the main competition of the 74th Locarno Film Festival, during the festival Ferrara won the Best Direction Award. The film was released in limited theaters and on demand by Lionsgate on November 19, 2021.

In 2022, Ferrara's Padre Pio, starring Shia LaBeouf and Asia Argento, premiered at the "Giornate degli Autori" section of the 79th Venice Film Festival on September 2, 2022. The film was released in the United States by Gravitas Ventures on June 2, 2023. During the film's production, LeBeouf notably converted to Catholicism.

Personal life
Ferrara is married to Cristina Chiriac and they have a daughter, Anna. He was previously married to Nancy Ferrara. Ferrara has two adopted children: Endira and Lucy. He was also in a romantic relationship with actress Shanyn Leigh.

Ferrara lives in Rome, Italy. He moved there following the 9/11 attacks because it was easier for him to find financing for his movies in Europe.

Raised Catholic, Ferrara started describing himself as Buddhist in 2007. When asked if he had converted, Ferrara responded,

It’s not a conversion, you’re not a card-carrying Catholic, you’re brought up Italian, so you’re brought up with those images. All the great art is financed by the Church so they have a monopoly on the paintings, and they’re powerful images, the whole nine yards of it. But Jesus was a living man, and so were Buddha and Muhammad. These three guys changed the fucking world, with their passion and love of other human beings. All these guys had was their word, and they came from fucking nowhere. I’m not saying Nazareth is nowhere – I’m sure Jesus came from a very cool neighbourhood.

Ferrara said in 2020 that Buddhism "is a practice for me, not a religion". In 2022, he stated he considered Padre Pio his "spirituality model".

Influences
Influences on Ferrara's work include "the Stones and Dylan...DaVinci, Stanley Kubrick, Woody Allen and all of the great New York film makers". He has also credited Pier Paolo Pasolini and Rainer Werner Fassbinder as influences.

Feature films
Acting roles

Television
TV movies

Recurring collaborators
Ferrara has recast many of the same actors in his movies, most notably Christopher Walken, Harvey Keitel and Willem Dafoe. Other actors he has recast include Annabella Sciorra and Matthew Modine as well as character actors such as Victor Argo, Paul Calderón and Giancarlo Esposito. David Caruso is another one of Ferrara's frequent film collaborators. Ms .45 (1981) star Zoë Lund collaborated with Ferrara again on Bad Lieutenant (1992), which she co-wrote. Gretchen Mol has worked with Ferrara twice. Forest Whitaker starred in Ferrara's movies Mary (2005) and Body Snatchers (1993).

Beginning with The Driller Killer in 1979 through The Projectionist in 2019, Ferrara most frequently worked with Ken Kelsch as his cinematographer.

title: Abel Ferrara


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jim Rose Circus

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. —Korath (Talk) 01:35, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Jim_Rose_Circus
Freak show circus, stub. Famous or just vanity? Radiant! 09:27, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Famous and notable. Gets google 12,000 hits. Not a perfect article, but keep. Kappa 10:01, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, famous. Has had TV shows made about it :-)  Needs severe cleanup and expansion, but keep. TSP 11:21, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Bad article, worthy subject. Used to tour with NIN. Keep. A.Kurtz 11:33, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup. Used to tour with Lollapalooza and was featured on a Simpsons episode where Homer Simpson joins a freakshow. Capitalistroadster 12:12, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. DJ Clayworth 18:43, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, cleanup and expand. I've seen this circus on television and on tour here btw, notable and (in)famous. Megan1967 00:52, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Utterly notable. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:08, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. World famous performance group.--Centauri 01:40, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Not a good article as is. But a very notable subject. Quite controversial. --Monk Bretton 01:51, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep A popular (or unpopular) travelling freak show -- Longhair 18:51, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Ridiculously famous. Oddly enough, the deletion policy doesn't include "nominator is ignorant and can't be bothered researching". This nomination is a perfect example for "delete nominator" - David Gerard 15:12, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Censoring people who disagree with you goes against the very idea of Wikipedia. Note that I didn't even vote to delete him, I merely put the matter up for discussion. Please be civil. Radiant! 12:20, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Talk:Angeltheow

Untitled
User:JoaoRicardo to User:Merovingian:

Hello. Could you please include some reference for the claim that Angeltheow was the 45th-great-grandfather of Winston Churchill? JoaoRicardo 07:54, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Merovingian to User:JoaoRicardo:

Please see. -- R yan! |  Talk  08:31, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

User:JoaoRicardo to User:Merovingian:

Yes, I had visited that website. But I don't understand why you are relying on it. It is an amateur site, made by a hobbyist (his resume shows no experience in history or related fields). He even states that the site should not be taken as authoritative, and that other sources should be searched for. So I still think we could use a better reference for this claim. JoaoRicardo 08:41, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Merovingian to User:JoaoRicardo:

Google shows no other links that could be used to verify the statement. Do you think I should revise Angeltheow to imply the fact that the claim may not be true? -- R yan! |  Talk  09:21, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

User:JoaoRicardo to [[User:Merovingian:

Yes, I believe we would be safer this way. Thank you! JoaoRicardo 20:01, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Do we care?
He is probably the 47th gr.-gr.-gr.-grandfather of a lt of known people, why must we mention a prime minister and a king of france?

title: Talk:Angeltheow


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jin Saotome

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. dbenbenn | talk 16:13, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Jin_Saotome
Sounds like a description of a roleplaying character. Radiant! 09:28, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * "What links here" tells me he's a video game character, and in fact he seems to have crossed over from one game to another. Merge somewhere or keep. Kappa 09:56, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, cruft. Wyss 18:13, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable gamecruft. Megan1967 00:53, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak keep unless someone writes an article on Cyberbots, in which case merge and redirect there. -Sean Curtin 02:52, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fancruft. Wile E. Heresiarch 05:36, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll abstain for now, but I'll supply a little background here. Jin's a character from a fighting game by Capcom entitled Cyberbots who was also included in the Marvel vs. Capcom series. I don't think he's particularly notable (i.e. he's not an icon of the genre like Ryu or Chun Li), but I'm not too versed on Wikipedia policy in these areas.  --HBK 18:08, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, videogame fancruft. JamesBurns 06:41, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jinnahbhai Poonja

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 08:43, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Jinnahbhai_Poonja
Article consists only of a photo. Possible copyvio. Anyone heard of him? Radiant! 09:28, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Delete he's the father of the founder of Pakistan. That said, relatives of notable people are not necessarily notable in their own right.  Also, this might just be me, but does that photo look... wrong somehow?  Like it's been retouched by watercolours or something?  It's kind of eerie. Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd  10:53, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. A picture by itself is not enough for an article. Carrp | Talk 17:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Mohammad Ali Jinnah. I think the picture is just a low quality scan of a daguerreotype. Indeed, only claim to fame appears to be his son, however it might be preferable to redirect instead of delete. Let's not forget to remove the links to this article in that one if we redirect! ;) HyperZonk 17:14, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not encyclopedic, no context, not an article. Comment: Yeah, it looks retouched, lots of family portrait photos a century ago were retouched like this, often ineptly, which yields the charactertistically disturbing look. Wyss 18:11, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as above. Brookie 19:04, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, article as it stands is un-encyclopaedic, possible copyright violation. Megan1967 00:55, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Yamuna

Style
Just Yamuna or  the Yamuna? Usage switches back and forth in the article at present. I think we should choose one style and stick to it throughout. "The Yamana" sounds more natural to my ears, but which is the more common usage in Indian English (presuming, that is, that we would want to echo it in this article)? -- Picapica (talk) 05:58, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Yamuna


text:
User talk:JEmfinger

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Here are some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
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 * Cite your sources
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Feel free to contact me personally with any questions you might have. About, Help desk, and Village pump are also

a place to go for answers to general questions. To read up on the latest wikinews,

have a look at the Wikipedia Signpost.

You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

(Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 09:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:JEmfinger


text:
MUGI

In cryptography, MUGI is a pseudorandom number generator (PRNG) designed for use as a stream cipher. It was among the cryptographic techniques recommended for Japanese government use by CRYPTREC in 2003, however, has been dropped to "candidate" by CRYPTREC revision in 2013.

MUGI takes a 128-bit secret key and a 128-bit initial vector (IV). After a key- and IV- setup process, MUGI outputs 64-bit output strings based on the internal state, while updating the internal state after each output block. MUGI has a 1216-bit internal state; there are three 64-bit registers (the "state") and 16 64-bit registers (the "buffer").

MUGI uses the non-linear S-box that was originally defined in Advanced Encryption Standard (AES). A part of the linear transformation also reuses the MDS matrix of AES. The basic design is influenced by that of Panama.

Security
As of September 2006, there are no known attacks against MUGI that are faster than serial brute-force of the key space or of the internal state.

In the paper, "A weakness of the linear part of stream cipher MUGI", by Golic Jovan Dj, Roy Bimal and Meier Willi, the abstract claims: "The linearly updated component of the stream cipher MUGI, called the buffer, is analyzed theoretically by using the generating function method. In particular, it is proven that the intrinsic response of the buffer, without the feedback from the nonlinearly updated component, consists of binary linear recurring sequences with small linear complexity 32 and with extremely small period 48. It is then shown how this weakness can in principle be used to facilitate the linear cryptanalysis of MUGI with two main objectives: to reconstruct the secret key and to find linear statistical distinguishers."

In the paper, "Analysis of the Non-linear Part of Mugi" by Alex Biryukov and Adi Shamir, the abstract claims: "This paper presents the results of a preliminary analysis of the stream cipher Mugi. We study the nonlinear component of this cipher and identify several potential weaknesses in its design. While we can not break the full Mugi design, we show that it is extremely sensitive to small variations. For example, it is possible to recover the full 1216-bit state of the cipher and the original 128-bit secret key using just 56 words of known stream and in 214 steps of analysis if the cipher outputs any state word which is different than the one used in the actual design. If the linear part is eliminated from the design, then the secret non-linear 192-bit state can be recovered given only three output words and in just 232 steps. If it is kept in the design but in a simplified form, then the scheme can be broken by an attack which is slightly faster than exhaustive search."

title: MUGI


text:
William Roll

William Roll may refer to:
 * William G. Roll, American psychologist and parapsychologist
 * William Roll (diplomat), U.S. diplomat

title: William Roll


text: Category:816 deaths

title: Category:816 deaths


text:
Push-button

A push-button (also spelled pushbutton) or simply button is a simple switch mechanism to control some aspect of a machine or a process. Buttons are typically made out of hard material, usually plastic or metal. The surface is usually flat or shaped to accommodate the human finger or hand, so as to be easily depressed or pushed. Buttons are most often biased switches, although many un-biased buttons (due to their physical nature) still require a spring to return to their un-pushed state.

Terms for the "pushing" of a button include pressing, depressing, mashing, slapping, hitting, and punching.

Uses

The "push-button" has been utilized in calculators, push-button telephones, kitchen appliances, and various other mechanical and electronic devices, home and commercial.

In industrial and commercial applications, push buttons can be connected together by a mechanical linkage so that the act of pushing one button causes the other button to be released. In this way, a stop button can "force" a start button to be released. This method of linkage is used in simple manual operations in which the machine or process has no electrical circuits for control.

Red pushbuttons can also have large heads (called mushroom heads) for easy operation and to facilitate the stopping of a machine. These pushbuttons are called emergency stop buttons and for increased safety are mandated by the electrical code in many jurisdictions. This large mushroom shape can also be found in buttons for use with operators who need to wear gloves for their work and could not actuate a regular flush-mounted push button.

As an aid for operators and users in industrial or commercial applications, a pilot light is commonly added to draw the attention of the user and to provide feedback if the button is pushed. Typically this light is included into the center of the pushbutton and a lens replaces the pushbutton hard center disk. The source of the energy to illuminate the light is not directly tied to the contacts on the back of the pushbutton but to the action the pushbutton controls. In this way a start button when pushed will cause the process or machine operation to be started and a secondary contact designed into the operation or process will close to turn on the pilot light and signify the action of pushing the button caused the resultant process or action to start.

To avoid an operator from pushing the wrong button in error, pushbuttons are often color-coded to associate them with their function. Commonly used colors are red for stopping the machine or process and green for starting the machine or process.

In popular culture, the phrase "the button" (sometimes capitalized) refers to a (usually fictional) button that a military or government leader could press to launch nuclear weapons.

Scram and scramble switches
Akin to fire alarm switches, some big red buttons, when deployed with suitable visual and audible warnings such as flashing lights and sirens for extreme exigent emergencies, are known as "scram switches" (from the slang term scram, "get out of here"). Generally, such buttons are connected to large scale functions, beyond a regular fire alarm, such as automated shutdown procedures, complete facility power cut, fire suppression like halon release, etc.

A variant of this is the scramble switch which triggers an alarm to activate emergent personnel to proactively attend to and go to such disasters. An air raid siren at an air base initiates such action, where the fighter pilots are alerted and "scrambled" to their planes to defend the base.

History
Push buttons were invented sometime in the late 19th century, certainly no later than 1880. The name came from the French word bouton (something that sticks out), rather than from the kind of buttons used on clothing. The initial public reaction was curiosity mixed with fear, some of which was due to widespread fear of electricity, which was a relatively new technology at the time.

title: Push-button


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jurij I of Halicz

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. —Korath (Talk) 01:38, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Jurij I of Halicz
Doesn't establish notability, and Wikipedia is not a genealogy database. Radiant! 09:41, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * 13th century polish monarch. Significant, although the article definately needs expanded. Keep - TB 12:22, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)
 * Appears, from superficial research, to have been a prince of Galicia (Central Europe). We tend to Keep monarchs who reigned (and send them to Cleanup for cross-linking them to the countries concerned — Well, whaddayaknow! ☺). Compare Jurij II of Halicz. Uncle G 12:28, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)
 * Keep as he was a regnant king, not that I'm a monarchist or anything! BTW, looks like there may be some need to normalize and redirect spelling, as Jurij I appears to be spelled as Yuriy I in Jurij II of Halicz's article. HyperZonk 17:23, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, but plainly needs cleanup and expansion. Wyss 18:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, cleanup and expand. Megan1967 00:57, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. Capitalistroadster 10:28, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Deletioncruft nomination.--Centauri 12:16, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Delete nominator - David Gerard 15:12, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Censoring people who disagree with you goes against the very idea of Wikipedia. Note that I didn't even vote to delete him, I merely put the matter up for discussion. Please be civil. Radiant! 12:21, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Nominating articles on VFD that are obviously not nonsense, vanity or original research - and therefore not valid subjects for deletion in the first place - is a selfish and unneccesary imposition on editors who would rather not have to waste hours of their time ensuring that good content isn't summarily deleted from Wikipedia.--Centauri 13:15, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Marginal agreement with Centauri. While it's important that everyone feel welcome to nominate articles for VfD, it's also important that they consider the cost of doing so.  8 people each spent perhaps 5 minutes researching Jurij I of Halicz to establish he was worthy of an article here - 40 minutes that may have been better spent.  It's not unreasonable to request that a nominator to ask him or herself 'do I believe that the deletion of this article will improve Wikipedia more than 40 minutes of other work would'. - TB 11:06, 2005 Feb 25 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:The Music

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Koverstreet3.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:07, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
The biography comes from the original The Music article, which I turned into a redirect page. So... credit to whoever wrote the bio i guess. If anyone thinks The Music would be better place for this article say so. --Cammoore 09:41, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No I dont think so, its better to have this as a separate page because eventually it will be a separate one. Im sure its easier for people who know something about this guy to just lay it down here instead of having to create the page and then including what they know. Martincamino 19:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)martincamino

Just a note to say that the edit performed at 19:34, 31 December 2006 was done by myself, logged out from the site. I basically identified the name of the song in the short video on the official web site (Fire).

Giantfryingpan 20:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Music July 2004.jpg
Image:The Music July 2004.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Themusic logo.PNG
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title: Talk:The Music


text:
User talk:September 23

Vandalising userpages will get you blocked. Theresa Knott (The snott rake) 09:42, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:September 23


text: Category:Val-d'Oise

title: Category:Val-d'Oise


text:
Talk:Teachta Dála

Page move from TD (parliament)
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request.

I would say this ought to be moved to "Teachta Dála". It needs an admin to do the honours. — Trilobite (Talk) 09:45, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree - I've listed it on WP:RM. Talrias (t | e | c) 22:29, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. --Kiand 22:33, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Support Blank Verse   ∅   15:00, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

TD's paycheck
Why isn't there something about how much TDs are paid? There is a salary section in the President of the United States article, why shouldn't there be in this one? I think its most definetly needed, especially as they are quite hightly paid. Olockers (talk) 21:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Good point - since your post it has been started. A ref. to historical rates/payments since 1922 with comparative pay scales would be interesting. RashersTierney (talk) 23:10, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

 * This article by Garret FitzGerald from the Irish Times of 10 October 2009 contains some interesting figures :
 * "The salaries of ministers in the governments of the 1920s were fixed at £1,500 a year – the purchasing power of which would today would be around €100,000. After coming to power in 1932, Éamon de Valera reduced this figure by one-third, to about €1,000 a year – about €70,000 in today’s money terms. When I was appointed a minister in 1973 little had changed: At £6,900 the combination of my Dáil allowance and ministerial salary added up to just under €85,000 in today’s money."

TD
Isn't the abbreviation used in Irish as well as English? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 14:10, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, since it is in Irish! Updated accordingly. Snappy (talk) 20:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

TDanna
(Warning: bikeshedding.) It is useful to state the full Irish plural "Teachtaí Dála" because it's borrowed directly into English, and an English speaker may use it while speaking English. If they want to pluralize TD, they'd naturally do so as "TDs". I would also assume that any Irish speaker would know how to pluralize "TD". In my opinion, mentioning that TD is pluralized as TDanna in Irish is unnecessary, and also makes the entry sentence more difficult to follow. That was my reasoning behind the change, but I won't push the issue. Cheers. —WOFall (talk) 23:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've removed TDs as it follows normally grammar plural rules, but TDanna is unusual in Irish so it should stay. Snappy (talk) 21:12, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'm happy with the compromise. —WOFall (talk) 21:25, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool, btw, what does bikeshedding mean? Snappy (talk) 21:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry, it's a term (that I probably overuse) popularized by an email. The classic example is that if you look for approval to build a nuclear reactor, few have the expertise and initiative needed to modify your plans, but if you try to build something simple like a bicycle shed, everyone will try to put their personal touch on it. So in context: I'm creating noise and bickering just because I can, when if I really wanted to be useful I'd contribute new content. I didn't explicitly say who I was calling a bike-shedder, but of course I meant myself. —WOFall (talk) 23:38, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

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Audio pronunciation added
As per a request on this talk page, I have uploaded an audio file of the pronunciation of Teachta Dála and removed the request template Joe byrne (talk) 18:26, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Two Irish Plurals?
The first line is very confusing!:

"A TD (plural TDanna in Irish or TDs in English; in full Teachta Dála, plural Teachtaí Dála)"

Are there two Irish plurals, if so, which one is proper? TDanna or Teachtai Dala? Would an Irish speaker be so kind to clear this first sentence up? — Seanstrain3001 (talk) 13:43, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

 * Teachtaí Dála is the plural of Teachta Dála, and TDanna is the plural of the abbreviated TD. Zacwill  ( talk ) 14:10, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Teachta Dála


text:
Akkoyunlu

Akkoyunlu can refer to:

 * Akkoyunlu, Başmakçı
 * Akkoyunlu, Çermik
 * Akkoyunlu, Çobanlar
 * the Turkish name for Aq Qoyunlu

title: Akkoyunlu


text:
Talk:Battle of Manila (1898)

Untitled
were there 1,500 or 15,000 defenders?

To answer your question, 15,000 defenders. jasendorf

The photo which accompanies this article states that it is from 1899. The Battle of Manila occured in August of 1898.

Use of the term "insurgents"
I suspect that the original creator of this page relied on the one source listed for this terminology. I have gone through and replaced all instances of the term with Filipinos or something not as biased. Broken Sphere Msg me 17:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Hmmm... That would have been this edit.

 * From the Insurgency article: "An insurgency is an armed rebellion against a constituted authority (for example, an authority recognised as such by the United Nations) when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognised as belligerents." The forces under Aguinaldo were an insurgency against the Spanish government (at the time) of the Philippines. I have not reverted the edit, but I think the changes imposed a particular editorial POV rather than correcting a pre-existing editorial POV. Also, not all Filipinos at the time were insurgents; the use of the term "Filipinos" to describe the insurgent forces distorts this. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:15, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

First Philippine Republic as a belligerent
The Battle of Manila took place on August 13, 1898. The First Philippine Republic was established on January 23, 1899. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

requests for citations regarding the prearrangement of the surrender of Manila
See http://www.archive.org/stream/philippinespastp01worcuoft/philippinespastp01worcuoft_djvu.txt pp. 99-100

"There was certainly no need of Insurgent assistance in the assault on Manila.

The reports which reached Aguinaldo that the surrender of Manila had been agreed upon in advance were correct, as is shown by the following testimony of Admiral Dewey [in a U.S. Senate hearing]:

"Senator Patterson. When did you reach an understanding with the Spanish commander upon the subject,^ — how long before the 12th or 13th of August?

"Admiral Dewey. Several days before.

"Senator Patterson. To whom did you communicate the arrangement that you had ?

"Admiral Dewey. General Merritt and, of course, all of my own captains — General Merritt, and I think a council of officers on board of one of the steamers. I think there were several army officers present when I told the General that ; and I may say here that I do not think General Merritt took much stock in it.

"Senator Patterson. What statement did you make to them. Admiral, in substance?

"Admiral Dewey. That the Spaniards were ready to surrender, but before doing so I must engage one of the outlying forts. I selected one at Malate, away from the city. They said I must engage that and fire for a while, and then I was to make a signal by the international code, 'Do you surrender?' Then they were to hoist a white flag at a certain bastion ; and I may say now that I was the first one to discover the white flag. We had 50 people looking for that white flag, but I happened to be the first one who saw it. I fired for a while, and then made the signal according to the programme. We could not see the white flag — it was rather a thick day — but finally I discovered it on the south bastion; I don't know how long it had been flying there when I first saw it." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.202.129 (talk) 03:27, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Flag of the revolutionaries, etc.
This edit caught my eye, and my attention was quickly drawn to as the flag of the revolutionaries in this battle, and the wikilink.

I have WP:BOLDly edited the article's infobox accordingly.
 * This battle took place on August 13, 1898.
 * The Philippine Revolutionary Army article says that that organization was founded on founded on March 22, 1897 [...] during the Tejeros Convention. I think that an argument can be made in support of the wikilink that the revolutionaries on August 18, 1898 were part of that same organization.
 * Looking at Philippine Revolutionary Army suggests that the proper flag on August 13, 1898 might have been the flag shown in either file:Philippines Aguinaldo flag (obverse).svg or file:Flag of the Tagalog people.svg.
 * In the Flag of the Philippines article, the table section Philippine Revolution – First Philippine Republic suggests the same thing, and provides the information that the Philippines Aguinaldo flag was sewn by Doña Marcela Marino de Agoncillo, Lorenza Agoncillo, and Delfina Herbosa de Natividad in Hong Kong and first flown in battle on May 28, 1898. That flag, therefore, could not have been the flag of the revolutionaries in this battle. Neither could any other flag derived from that flag.
 * That suggests that file:Flag of the Tagalog people.svg might be the proper flag the flag to associate with the revolutionaries for this battle.
 * It appears to me that the proper flag the flag to associate with the revolutionaries for this battle is the flag at file:Flag of the Tagalog people.svg.
 * The flagicon template and associated templates use data from a template listed in Category:Country data templates. One might think of using the data in Country data Philippines, but that would be wrong. The Philippines was under Spanish sovereignty at the time of this battle, and the revolutionaries were insurgents against the Spanish colonial government.
 * Looking at the internals of flagicon/core, it appears to me that the way to do that is
 * This produces: Flag of the Tagalog people.svg.

Discussion? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:23, 17 September 2016 (UTC) On re-reading the above, I see that the May 28, 1898 date when the file:Philippines Aguinaldo flag (obverse).svg is said to have first been flown preceded this battle. I ought to have noticed this earlier. This suggests that file:Philippines Aguinaldo flag (obverse).svg probably ought to be the flag used here. I'll re-edit the article to show that one instead. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:35, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

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Resullt, as summarized in the infobox
There are the makings of an edit war over this and I'm opening this discussion in hopes of heading that off. There are several ways to view this battle depending on what viewpoint it is seen from. This article takes a view which is widespread in historical sources in describing it as a "mock battle" between U.S. and Spanish forces. which were on opposite sides in the Spanish-American War. cooked up in order to prevent capture of the Spanish capital in the Philippines by Filipino forces and to engineer its capture by U.S. forces instead. That is clear from a reading of the article, I thank, and from the cited supporting sources. I have no argument with this general description.

The editorial point at issue here is over how to summarize the result of this battle in the infobox.
 * this 22:10, December 18, 2020 article says that the result was, "American-Filipino victory". There are probably other descriptions previous to this, but not immediately before it and this is as far as I looked back.
 * this Revision as of 03:19, January 23, 202r changed that without explanation to "Decisive American-Filipino victory";
 * this rvision as of 21:02, February 14, 2021, after a few unrelated revisions, changed that to "American-Filipino victory";
 * That change caught my eye and, in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Manila_(1898)&diff=next&oldid=1006795454 this\ revision as of 21:21, February 14, 2021 I changed it to "American-American victory" (with a terrible proofreading error), explaining: (Spanish surrender of the city to the Americans.) ;
 * then, this revision as of 22:17, February 14, 2021 changed in back to "American-Filipino victory"., explaining: ([...] changing "American-Filipino victory" to "American-American victory" doesn't appear to make sense,)".

I assert that a better summary of the result of this "mock battle" staged with the intent to deprove Filipino forces of a victory, and accmplishing that intended result, is "American victory". I think that this is supported by the article (read the second paragraph of the lead section). I have edited the article here to that effect. Please discuss further here if needed. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:42, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

 * You appear to have misunderstood my intentions. Per Template:Infobox military conflict, terms such as "decisive" aren't used in the infobox. seems to have been adding "decisive" for quite a while (I haven't checked them all, but I'm prepared to wager a significant number of the edits that are "+9" size are adding decisive. So removing that was my first edit.

 * My second edit wasn't an attempt to edit war, but only to temporarily revert the error that inadvertently introduced the "American-American victory" text. Since your edit summary wasn't very clear as to what you were trying to do, I thought reverting you while ensuring you'd receive a notification would alert you to the problem and you'd fix it. I have no position on whether the article should say "American-Filipino" or "American", but it shouldn't say "decisive" and it shouldn't say "American-American". FDW777 (talk) 15:15, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think that there is an edit war going on over this; it's more of a disconnect between what the article says and how the infobox summarizes it . This has had been edited recently by several people including myself (with a horrible proofreading error). The battle which is the topic of this article wasn't a straightforward battle between A and b, it was more complicated than that. I tried to sketch that out above, and the article body describes that more fully. Here, I am trying to get the infobox summary to reflect what the article and the supporting sources it cites say about the article topic. Following my edit, it said "American victory" (not "Decicive American victory"). I do see that the infobox military conflict docs say, so perhaps the two bullet points there, which were there prior to my edit, ought not to be there. Wtmitchell  (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 17:40, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 17:40, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Bold image removal
I've WP:BOLDly removed this image depicting Dewey's Asiatic Squadron in the Battle of Manila Bay which had taken place on May 1 from this article about the August 13 battle which was primarily a land action. Since the Background section does mention that May 1 battle, I initially re-edited the image caption for better clarity to read "US Navy Asiatic Squadron lead by the USS Olympia against the Spanish fleet" but, having done that, I still thought that the image was very out of place here, especially appearing where it did in the rendered article, and removed it instead. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 17:26, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

"fake" vs. "mock"
In this edit, the term "fake" grated on me at first -- the article uses "mock" in several places and that's the term I recall being used in outside sources. However, according to the distionaries I checked there is a nuance there, with "fake" implying intent to deceive while "mock" does not. Considering that, "fake" seems to be a better term here. Perhaps there is a better term than "fake", but none comes immediately to my limited mind. In any case, terminology should be consistent and I've left this edit introducing inconsistent terminology unreverted. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 14:05, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Skin color
This revert with an edit summary saying Not understanding removal reason caught my eye. The revert restored an observation re Filipino forces saying, "who have brown skin", that had been removed with an edit summary saying, Removed biased language, leaving a description of Spain earlier in that sentence as "a white country" intact. One of the two supporting sources cited is this journal article by historian Vicente L. Rafael. Some out-of-context snippets from that article illustrate my take on this: "President William McKinley had declared the policy of the United States toward the Philippines to be one of “benevolent assimilation,” seeking, he claimed, to Christianize and educate the Filipinos after centuries of captivity by Catholic Spain. War and occupation were thus meant to liberate, not subjugate the Filipinos. Taking on the white man’s burden, Americans were to wait upon the needs and wants of their captives, described in Kipling’s famous poem as “half devil and half-child.” [...] the American colonization of the Philippines cast white Americans as innately superior yet exceptionally benevolent masters of a wild collection of tribes of dark, brown, and mixed raced people yet to be tamed and pacified into a people who recognized their place in the new imperial order.[...] the Spaniards and Americans had agreed to stage a “mock battle” of Manila to save Spanish face and keep Filipinos out of the city, thereby making it seem that the Spaniards lost to fellow whites, not to an accursed collection of natives and half-breeds. Furious at this deception, the Filipinos withdrew to a town north of Manila. There, they convened a constitutional convention, inaugurating the First Philippine Republic, organizing a congress that drew up laws and sent out ambassadors to secure international recognition of the new nation."

I think that mention of skin color (particularly the mentioned shadings) here has due weight for inclusion. It does seem to cry out for a clarifying footnote citing sources with more detail about the social importance of skin color in stratified societies where the top strata tend to be predominately of one shading. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:12, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Result
This is a BRD discussion in response to this edit by unregistered editor 154.205.22.6. I have undone that edit here. The effect of that edit, which I see as problematic, was to change the Result field in the infobox from "American victory" to "Filipino-American victory" with an edit summary saying (BE MORE SPECIFIC). The undone reversion had reverted a previous edit making the same change by the same editor, saying (Not consistent with the 'Battle' section of the article.)

154.205.22.6, please WP:register. Please also read WP:BRD and WP:EW. Please also read the final two paragraphs in the |Battle section of this article. Please pay particular attention to the sentence there saying, "Except for the unplanned casualties, the battle had gone according to plan; the Spanish had surrendered the city to the Americans, and it had not fallen to the Filipino revolutionaries." That assertion cites a supporting source that is readable online and is linked in the cite. If you disagree with this, please read WP:DUE. DUE is part of WP:NPOV; please read that as well.

Please continue this discussion below if you disagree instead of edit-warring in the artice. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:32, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Commanders involved
I am very confused why Generals Mariano Noriel, Pio Del Pilar, Gregorio Del Pilar, Artemio Ricarte are removed from the commanders involved, according to Wtmitchell's summary of edit that Luna participated in 1899 battle of Manila, which is a fact, but what I was referring to is that the mentioned generals above participated in the 1898 Battle of Manila in this wikipedia article, and therefore their names must be included in the "commanders and leaders" section and were the same commanders (except Gregorio Del Pilar) who also fought or participated in the 1899 Battle of Manila, which can be seen in the main wikipedia page/article of Antonio Luna and the Battle of Manila (1899) RA9Markus (talk) 04:35, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It was an error on my part -- I've done no research to verify individual cases but I recall making the reverted edit also without doing that and don't recall what I had in mind that led me to do that. I think that I must have mis-read this somehow. Thanks for pointing this out. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Trimmings from Philippine-American War
Per Talk, trimmings from the Battle of Manila subsection in the Philippine-American War article are being placed here in case they need to be added to this article, with a reference to the pre-trimmed version:   "The officers of the United States Army who believed that the insurgents were informing the Spaniards of the American movements were right. Sastrón has printed a letter from Pío del Pilar, dated July 30, to the Spanish officer commanding at Santa Ana, in which Pilar said that Aguinaldo had told him that the Americans would attack the Spanish lines on August 2 and advised that the Spaniards should not give way, but hold their positions. Pilar added, however, that if the Spaniards should fall back on the walled city and surrender Santa Ana to himself, he would hold it with his own men. Aguinaldo's information was correct, and on August 2 eight American soldiers were killed or wounded by the Spanish fire."
 * On July 9, General Anderson informed Major General Henry Clark Corbin, the Adjutant General of the U.S. Army, that Aguinaldo "has declared himself Dictator and President, and is trying to take Manila without our assistance", opining that that would not be probable but, if done, would allow him to resist any U.S. attempt to establish a provisional government. On July 15, Aguinaldo issued three organic decrees assuming civil authority.
 * On July 18, Anderson wrote that he suspected Aguinaldo to be secretly negotiating with the Spanish authorities.
 * In a July 21 letter to the Adjutant General, Anderson wrote that Aguinaldo had "put in operation an elaborate system of military government, under his assumed authority as Dictator, and has prohibited any supplies being given us, except by his order", and that Anderson had demanded that Aguinaldo must aid in fulfilling Anderson's demands for necessary supplies.
 * On July 24, Aguinaldo wrote a letter to Anderson in effect warning him not to disembark American troops in places liberated by Filipinos from Spain without first informing him in writing about the places and purpose of the action. Murat Halstead, official historian of the Philippine Expedition, wrote that General Merritt remarked shortly after his arrival on June 25: "As General Aguinaldo did not visit me on my arrival, nor offer his services as a subordinate military leader, and as my instructions from the President fully contemplated the occupation of the islands by the American land forces, and stated that 'the powers of the military occupant are absolute and supreme and immediately operate upon the political condition of the inhabitants,' I did not consider it wise to hold any direct communication with the insurgent leader until I should be in possession of the city of Manila, especially as I would not until then be in a position to issue a proclamation and enforce my authority, in the event that his pretensions should clash with my designs."
 * U.S. commanders suspected that Aguinaldo and his forces were informing the Spaniards of American movements. U.S. Army Major John R. M. Taylor later wrote, after translating and analyzing insurgent documents:
 * The secret agreement made by Commodore Dewey and Brigadier General Wesley Merritt with Spanish Governor-General Fermín Jáudenes and with his predecessor Basilio Augustín was for Spanish forces to surrender only to the Americans. To save face, the Spanish surrender would take place after a mock battle in Manila that the Spaniards would lose; the revolutionaries would not be allowed to enter the city.
 * Before the attack on Manila, U.S. and Filipino forces had been allies in all but name. After the capture of Manila, the U.S. and Spain formed a partnership that excluded the Philippine rebels. Relations continued to deteriorate, however, as it became clear to Filipinos that the Americans were in the islands to stay.

  Chino-Catane (talk) 04:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battle of Manila (1898)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alf Arcayan

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 13:50, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Alf Arcayan
I'd never heard of this guy, but I did a Google test and got--I'm not making this up--ONE hit. Seriously, this smells like an attack page, a borderline speedy but not quite. Szyslak 09:48, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Delete The 1 google hit does not even concern him, and I didn't get anything with searches like "Ding bling Arcayan" etc. So Non-notable seems to apply. Glaurung 10:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete probable hoax, but if true still not notable Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd 11:00, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, it sounds pretty hoaxish. I was actually going to say that in my VfD summary, but I forgot. Szyslak 20:39, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete BJAODN. HyperZonk 17:18, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, agreed this on the edge of speediness, either way it's a hoaxy ad. Wyss 18:09, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as above.Brookie 19:02, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable - fails Google test, artist promo. Megan1967 00:56, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text:
User talk:Xtra/Archive abuse and replies

Abuse received over Liberal Party
I've actually put in an official protest against Xtra (about his misleading tersm for the Liberals), and alerted many good "liberal" blogs/sites about yor move to propaganda, so expect a few peope to start changing this post beside me. It's good to know you're not about truth anymore, but lies and misinformation. Just what the liberal party usually stands for (WMDs, children overboard, etc). It's good to see people like "Mark" here on your side. So much for honesty, and non-partisan, huh? Great Job.

I suggest resolving the situation by incorporating into the article the disagreement over whether the party is conservative or neo-liberal. Excellent point, there has been little discussion on the issue, and "consensus" cannot exist with the beliefs of only one user. A note about the "controversy" welcomes open discussion, so this issue can be resolved. - --PSYCH 03:49, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * there is no dissagreement over whether the party is conservative or neoliberal. it has components of both. if you are the person who has until now posted anonomous insults about me, i would appreciate if you would no longer contact me. Xtra 03:54, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have never insulted anyone, but where is the evidence that this party is neo-liberal? There is controversy because you seem to be the only one who agrees that the party is in fact neoliberal. You hardly constitute a consensus on all things Liberal, when few users have challenged you on this.--PSYCH 03:59, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

>I agree, how can anyone assume this party is Neoliberal without offering any links, internal or external? Saying it is just because you think it is, is hardly a reliable source.--Buffy05 04:03, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

no-one, other than an anonomous user and you. who apear to be the same people. have challanged this undisputable fact. just as the earth is round, so does the liberal party have a large neoliberal element. as such, do not disturb me. Xtra 04:06, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

see http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,12197191-1702,00.html if you like for evidence. Xtra 04:09, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I read that article. Only ONE person has "broken ranks," with the government? One person is your "strong" neoliberal faction? That's great evidence to use against your neoliberal claim. I'll make sure they consider it during content mediation. Thanks. - Buffy05 04:28, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't know who the other guy is, but of course I'm the anon guy. The admins (the real unbiased admins unlike yourself) told me I ned to reg to be taken seriously with a complaint(you seem to think it's your right to spread false truths about the lib party, and your anti-gay adoption and marriage views speak volumes about the type of person you are).

'''Seeing as how you're more interested in propaganda than the truth, this post probably won't have a long shelf life. We know you like to spin the truth to ensure yourself and your party are seen in a positive light.'''

I hope Mark knows where you stand on these issues. - PSYCH 06:48, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Isn't it odd how, according to you, you supposedly "SUPPORT freedom of and from religion" but then oppose gay marriage and see gay adoption as a last resort (after singles!)? Have you heard of a separation of church and state? How can the "biblical meaning" in any way impact Australian law? Similarly, how can anyone oppose gay marriage without running into a legal web vis-a-vis separation of church and state? Not to mention, the fact that you put gays last for adoption rights demonstrates that not only look down on homosexuality, but you embody the Australian "Liberal" spirit. This is a statement, not a PERSONAL ATTACK.

- PSYCH 07:29, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * thank you for removing your inflamatory, insulting and innacurate assertions Xtra 01:23, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Calling you something that rhymes with "Mazi" wasn't innacurate, I just didn't want to get banned so I decided to remove it. I think the burden is on you to prove why you're not a (rhymes with "Mazi") because your politcal views closely resemble those of a (rhymes with "Mazi"), your suspicious views on gay marriage and gay adoption speak volumes (when according to you, gays have "plenty of rights."). - PSYCH 00:49, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

So you prefer to silence me than hear the facts? that's fine. You just keep giving me more evidence to use to prove your inherent political bias.

Oh, and Mediation has been sought over your political bias. Check the mediation page. - PSYCH 07:02, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I was not trolling; I was trying to present the facts. The fact the he wanted to permanently ban me because I didn't share his POV...well make up your own mind.

 * Regardless, Xtra started all this by smugly questioning why I didn't get into Melbourne Law.

 * Sterling was incorrect when S/he wrote: "The ALP is neo-liberal, balanced budgets, selling off state interests, free trade and lower regulation." This is supposed to be: The Liberal Party is neo-liberal, balanced budgets, selling off state interests, free trade and lower regulation." That's why my HECS have an 8 year quota and were increased by 25%.

Regardless, even if I were 100% correct, given who Xtra's "friends" are I wouldn't stand a chance.

- PSYCH 01:26, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

RFC "successful" arbitration
Could you please remove the link to the "successful arbitration" ; it is hardly a NPOV (nor an attempt at moving on), considering you yourself were cautioned for occasional personal attacks in the arbitration ruling. -- PSYCH 12:21, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I was not cautioned. read the result. it is not POV. in any case user pages do not need to conform to NPOV. please stop vandalizing my page. Xtra 12:28, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Cautioned" as in admonished, not as in an official caution, To quote:

"User:Xtra and other have at time been either patronizing or insulting toward User:PSYCH" and that you had "threatened" me. It passed 6-2.

Regardless, I did not vandalise your page, I just asked for an RFC. How can that be possibly be vandalism? -- PSYCH 12:38, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * the motion of admonishment failed. the only user who the arbitration committee made any sort of order against was you. read the case. Xtra 12:53, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No, it states: (to quote)

 * Insults and discourtesy toward PSYCH

9) User:Xtra and other have at time been either patronizing or insulting toward User:PSYCH, see "you are confused about what neoliberalism is: I suggest you take a look", "ridiculous claims and partial truths", "buy a dictionary", "I suggest you read Liberalism in Australia", "i am sick of replying to your distorted nonsense",  "get a life" and

 * Passed 6-2.''

Secondly, I would like the history notation "vandalism by PSYCH" removed immediately - if you look at the IP address, it's not even Australian, infact, it comes from the University of California (I suggest downloading the program IPNetInfo, or check the ARIN WHOIS database fir the IP name). '''I would like that removed immediately (as I did not do it, and I am on probation), or else I will have to file a complaint to have it removed. End of discussion'''.

Finally, please do not edit my talk page. Why did you post your allegations AGAIN when I had already removed your slander the first time? Now that is vandalism, and I will report it. -- PSYCH 13:12, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * clicking here will show that you have once again distorted the truth. the motion to admonish me FAILED 2 - 5. you were placed on personal attack parole unnanamously. end of story. Xtra 05:46, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, considering most of the people making up the arbitration panel were "friends" of yours, it doesn't surprise me they sided with you. That would never float in a court of law, that's for sure.
 * No response regarding your slanderous remarks. I don't want to have anything to do with you either, but accusations like "reverted vandalism by psych" in the history page isn't fair, considering you have no basis whatsoever that it was me, and the IP address wasn't even located in Australia! Speculation isn't enough, and the facts prove me right. Please remove it immediately. I don't want to have to try other avenues....again. Please remove them. -- PSYCH 06:08, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * it is not nonsense, you claimed that I had vadalized your page when I did not; you made an accusation with no basis whatsoever, and expect me not to complain about your slander? Remove the slander in the history page, or I will have to (once again) have to try other avenues. -- PSYCH 14:37, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

 * Excuse me, but that is a direct attack on me which is completely unfounded. I am a contributing member of Wikipedia, check my contribs to the HECS and WAIS-III page to name a few. I disagree with Xtra's choice to brag about the arbitration which I have asked a wikikette/3rd opinion on and that is all. I ask you that you keep your insults to yourself, instead of publicising them (considering you were the one who had a hand in the arbitration, which isn't the most impartial of ties is it?). -- PSYCH 04:15, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Ooo, excuse me. I apologise. You have made ONE real contribution in the last month. I know you are the vandal and you know you are the vandal, so stop pretending otherwise. Xtra 05:37, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't realise you were in charge of wikipedia and had enforced quotas. Regardless, if you keep spreading lies about me, then I'll have to once again go through the DR process... this time asking for fair, impartial mods to assess the situation, not those in cahoots with you. Please stop this unwarranted defamation. In case you need a brush up:
 * slander n.
 * 1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
 * 2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.
 * -- PSYCH 09:03, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

I suggest you read the second part of your definition. Xtra 09:04, 21 May 2005 (UTC) p.s. when you do get up to it in your law course, you will learn that a person needs to have a good reputation to be tarnished in the first place to sue for either slander or defamation. Xtra 09:07, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Uh, yeah, that 2nd line pretty much sums you up. You speak in a very, arrogant, Holier-than-thou way, but this is my 6th year of uni, I'm a Melbourne Uni Grad (BA/BSC(HONS)) & starting my law degree at an institution that was good enough for your precious Peter Costello. Not wise to criticise me on that. Anyway, I'm sick of defending myself from someone as stubborn as you, so I'm taking this page of my watchlist. -- PSYCH 09:49, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

fuck u —Preceding unsigned comment added by Picks.14 (talk • contribs)


text:
Bernard Gutteridge

Bernard Hugh Gutteridge  (1916–1985) was an English poet, novelist, and playwright. He is primarily known for his war poems, considered "verse-journalism of a very high order" by Vernon Scannell.

Early life and education
Son of Captain Bernard George Gutteridge, MRCS, LRCP, late RAMC, of Littlecroft, Southampton, and his wife Mary, daughter of William Baxter, Gutteridge was born at Southampton, and educated at Cranleigh. He worked in advertising both before and after the war (part of the time for the J. Walter Thompson agency). His 1954 novel The Agency Game is set in the advertising world.

Career
Gutteridge served during World War II in Madagascar, India, and with the 36th Division of the British Army in Burma under Combined Operations alongside Alun Lewis. He also served in the Hampshire Regiment and Royal Sussex Regiment. He reached the rank of Major, and was awarded the Legion of Merit in 1945. He was a director of the brewers Arthur Guinness, Son, & Co. from 1949 to 1979.

Personal life
In 1947, Gutteridge married Nabila Farah Kérimée Halim, daughter of H.H. Prince Muhammad Said Bey Halim of Egypt and a relative of Egypt's last king, Fuad II; they were divorced in 1971. One of their three daughters is the actress Lucy Gutteridge. Gutteridge subsequently remarried, in 1971, to Elizabeth Tegher.

Works
Gutteridge's writings include Traveller's Eye (1947), The Agency Game (1954), Collected Poems (1927-1955) (1956), The Clock: Poems and a Play (1973), and Old Damson-Face: Poems 1934 to 1974 (1976). Gutteridge was also a contributor to several literary magazines, and translator from Polish of Julian Tuwim's poem for children, "Lokomotywa" ("The Locomotive").

title: Bernard Gutteridge


text:
Chico Enterprise-Record

The Chico Enterprise-Record is the daily newspaper of Chico, California. Also known as the E-R, the newspaper was first published in Bidwell Bar, California as the Butte Record in 1853 and is now part of the MediaNews Group corporation, who took control of the paper from Donrey in 1999. Donrey had owned the paper since March 14, 1983.

The paper has a circulation of less than 10,000 and also publishes supplements, like "The North Valley Employment Guide", "The Real Estate Guide", "HomeStyle Magazine." Editions of the Enterprise-Record include the Oroville Mercury-Register.

Throughout its history as the Enterprise-Record, the newspaper has never missed a scheduled publication day. There have been several challenges to that accomplishment, including an earthquake in August 1975 which knocked out power to the newspaper's offices for several hours. The shock measured 5.7 ML and had a maximum Mercalli intensity of VIII (Severe), causing $3 million in damage and injuring 10.

History
The Enterprise-Record is the result of the merger of the Chico Enterprise and the Chico Record on Dec. 6, 1948. Both predecessor publications had a long and storied history throughout the north valley of the Sacramento River.

The Chico Record can trace its roots to the Butte Record. The Butte Record moved publication from Bidwell Bar to Oroville in 1856 where it was briefly known as the Oroville Union Record from 1864 to 1866. The publication would relocate to Chico in 1873 and after the acquisition of the Chico Chronicle became the Chico Morning Chronicle-Record. The name was winnowed back to Chico Record after new owners purchased the paper in 1897.

The Chico Enterprise originated in 1859 as the Tehama Tocsin in Tehama, California. It relocated to Red Bluff, California and, later, to Chico where it was renamed the Northern Enterprise. The name was later shorted to the Enterprise.

The Enterprise and the Record were among many newspapers that were published in Chico in the 1860s. Other publications included the Chico Index, Chico Courant and the California Caucasian. The Caucasian was reportedly a central force in fomenting the atmosphere of hate and bigotry which led to the burning of Chico's then-"Chinatown" in 1877 (https://web.archive.org/web/20110718035004/http://www.what-you-see.com/calif/chico.htm).

Ultimately, the Enterprise and the Record emerged as Chico's two primary newspapers. They competed against each other through the 1940s. They published together for the first time in a single combined edition in October 1946 due to a printer's strike.

The Enterprise and the Record consolidated ownership in Nov. 13, 1947 when Record owners, Stanley and Samuel Beaubaire, sold their paper to the Chico Enterprise. Enterprise Publishing Co. published separate editions of the Enterprise and the Record until Dec. 6, 1948 when they were merged into the Chico Enterprise-Record.

After merging, the paper was published in the afternoons Monday through Friday and on Saturday mornings. The newspaper's office and printing presses were at 700 Broadway.

On March 14, 1983, more than a century of local ownership ended when the publication was sold to Donrey Media Group of Fort Smith, Ark. One change was the introduction of a Sunday morning edition on Oct. 30, 1983. The E-R shifted to an entirely morning newspaper on Sept. 8, 1992.

The Enterprise-Record also moved its operation to its current offices and printing presses at 400 E. Park Ave. on Aug. 22, 1987. The ribbon cutting included Butte County Supervisor Jane Dolan, Chico Mayor Mary Andrews and Donrey founder Donald W. Reynolds.

National Influence and Coverage
In November 2018, the editor of the Enterprise-Record took a photo of Camp Fire, then consuming Paradise, California. The iconic photograph, taken with an iPhone camera, appeared on the websites of the New York Times, Washington Post, and Time magazine. The Los Angeles Times would later run an article detailing the efforts taken by the little paper to cover the tragedy, recognizing the staff for performing at "the highest of levels."

title: Chico Enterprise-Record


text:
Talk:Interstate 280 (California)

Wiki Education assignment: Writing 1 MW
— Assignment last updated by Jcalderon65 (talk) 15:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Interstate 280 (California)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mind myths

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE then REDIRECT. dbenbenn | talk 16:20, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Mind myths
This was a recreation of Mind Myths by User:144.214.54.82, which was nominated for deletion in January (see Votes for deletion/Mind Myths) with the consensus to merge with Brain. Normally, this should have been speedied as a recreation of deleted material. Instead, it was cleaned up and expanded a bit. When I found it on Jan 18, I felt that it was unencyclopedic, but noticed that most of the information seemed to reference a single book (Mind Myths by Sergio Della Sala). Because of this, I changed the subject of the article from "mind myths" themselves, to this book. On January 27, User:144.214.54.82 changed the subject back. I reverted this on February 10, but User:Paranoid reverted me the next day. We began discussing this on the talk page, when User:dbenbenn pointed out that this article had already been deleted.

There are two version for this page. I feel that both should be deleted. If the article is about "mind myths" themselves, it is unencyclopedic and has already been deleted once. If the article is about the book, Mind Myths, it is non-notable (its Amazon.com rank is over 1,000,000). -- Scott eiπ + 1 = 0  09:57, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * delete - I disagree that it would necessarily be unencyclopedic in the first case, but in its current form it has nothing that can't be covered in brain.
 * Unsigned vote by User:Paranoid.
 * If the article is about "mind myths" themselves, it is unencyclopedic and has already been deleted once. — No, it has already been kept once. A consensus to "merge" is a consensus to keep, and to merge. Uncle G 12:34, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)
 * This is a pointless fork of material, including the book reference, that has already been merged into brain. Redirect to brain, Deleting beforehand according to taste. Uncle G 18:16, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)
 * The information was merged into brain. Everything that was deemed worthy of keeping already exists there, this is just a duplicate.  -- Scott  eiπ + 1 = 0  20:43, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as potential fork, otherwise this isn't an encyclopedic classification. Wyss 18:04, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Brain. Megan1967 00:59, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Brain. JamesBurns 06:43, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * My vote would be to expand the article to cover pseudopsychology, a subject with no entry at present. GPJ

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
User talk:World history plus

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia, ! I hope you like the place and decide to keep contributing. Since I see you've already been active here, let me just give you a few links that are always useful as a handy reference guide: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question at the village pump or feel free to ask me on my Talk page. Oh, and just in case you don't already know: to sign your name on a Talk page like I did below, the easiest way is just to type four tildes (~~~~). To customize your signature, look here. And remember:Be Bold!
 * How to write a great article
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * What Wikipedia is not
 * Wikiquette
 * Wikipedia's NPOV policies
 * Current polls
 * — Asbestos | Talk 09:58, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hullo World History Plus, I saw some of your contributions on Special:Newpages. Seems you have a lot to contribute, so I hope you'll stick around. On the point about Chagatai Khanate being the wrong title for the article, you might have to bring that up at Requested moves if you want to change that (it isn't something I know much about). I don't think the other title would be right either because Khanate should probably be capitalised (shouldn't it?). In the mean time, maybe you should add your new information on the subject to the existing article and use it as a template for style etc. It has a nice little info-box to orient people to related articles etc and it already links to other articles, so people are more likely to be able to find and use your information if it's there. It could always be moved at a later date, if others agreed that the move should take place.
 * One other small point, since anyone can edit articles they don't credited to a single author (you've put your name at the bottom of things you've written). On the plus side, people can use the history tab to see who has written what. All the best, Mattley 12:50, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Chaghatai is the spelling used by the NGM. But this mag says "Chaghatai Khanate". Grousset, an authority on Central Asia, uses the words Jagatai and Jagataite. Webster's defines the sufix -ite thus (pertinent part only): "a suffix of nouns denoting esp. persons associated with a place, tribe, doctrine, system, etc. (Campbellite, Israelite, laborite". Other examples are: Hussite,Edomite, and so on. Actually, the definition is not wholly accurate because "Hussite", e.g., can be used as an adjective. There is also "sodomite", from Sodom, and it has nothing to do with the associations mentioned in the definition. I assume that -ite is used to make nouns and adjectives from nouns that either end on a consonant as "Israel" or with an i as in "Ogodei" or "Chaghatai". Be that as it may, I would keep "Chaghataite Khanate" unless some authority gives me strong arguments to the contrary, perhaps the historical advisor for the NGM. Offhand, I cannot remember exactly what the entry "Chagatai Khanate" in Wikipedia says, but if it's not in "Chaghataite Khanate" it can be incorporated. I can delete the World history plus at the end of "Chaghataite Khanate" if it sounds presumptuous. Thank you for the comment.

Carlos World history plus

title: User talk:World history plus


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JSR170

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 08:49, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

JSR170
This is pretty strange, it looks like part of a patent application. It doesn't describe what the technology in question is, simply who might be interested in it. Might be copyvio but it sounds too vague and descriptory for that. What to do? Radiant! 09:58, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * It describes a JSR, i.e. a Java Specifications Request if I got my acronyms right. It's a formal document for suggesting a new feature for the Java programming language or its standard library. 193.167.132.66 10:13, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * So that means transwiki to wikisource would be appropriate, no? Radiant! 10:51, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, this is either original research, a promotional blurb or both. Wyss 18:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as above. Brookie 19:01, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - DavidWBrooks 19:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JSR170


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vampire Ivory

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 01:31, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Vampire Ivory
Reads like a hoax or some cruft from some role-playing game. Or could this be a real myth instead? No help from Google. jni 09:59, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Silly, probably created by goth wannabes. Not even on Snopes, so not a famous hoax. Delete. Radiant! 10:53, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete likely some sort of cruft from some kind of ficton or RPG Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd 11:03, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete cruft. – flamurai (t) 11:38, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Would appear to be something from a modern, obscure work of fiction. No impact outside that work, so clearly not warranting an article. Even worse, the article presents this fiction as fact. Average Earthman 13:25, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. At best, would need a fiction template tag, but it's not even notable enough for that in my opinion. HyperZonk 17:26, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, plainly fiction (and should have been tagged as such), this is either innocent goth cruft or a stealth ad for some sort of fiction or game. Wyss 18:00, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable, even if it's real. Carrp | Talk 18:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as above. Who thinks of this rubbish? Brookie 19:00, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into Vampire. If the author is serious about wanting this material in, then it could go into the Vampire article rather than into the trash bin. Courtland 05:49, 2005 Feb 18 (UTC)
 * Merge anything useable to Vampire, and add redirect. Megan1967 07:01, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Absolutely do not merge unless the material is independently verified as a legend or from some notable fictional source, as opposed to someone's RPG campaign. Gamaliel 07:12, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Concur Kappa 08:36, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Concur with Gamaliel. Radiant! 09:07, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.