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User talk:SHASHAZ

JFW | T@lk  15:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Orthodox Judaism
I'm not sure if you're correct about Haredim rejecting Torah im Derech Eretz. You may have overlooked the situation in the USA, where Aguda is effectively being run by lay professionals. And even in Israel, the majority of Haredim have professional schooling. JFW | T@lk  15:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you. Something is very wrong with my English if you misunderstood me as though I said all Haredim rejected Rabbi Hirsch's way. What I said was actually quite the opposite:In the beginning Agudat Israel was based on the legacy of Torah im Derech Erech. Afterwards, the Litvaks changed it, but even today there is no dichotomy between Agudat Israel and Rabbi Hirsch's way. SHASHAZ 18:00, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Israel
Shalom SHASHAZ: Please contact User:Humus sapiens who wishes to start a Wikiportal/Israel See his request below. Thanks IZAK 06:12, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi IZAK (and everyone else here :), Do you think it's time to create Wikiportal/Israel similar to Wikiportal/India, Wikiportal/New Zealand and other Category:Wikiportals? I'm writing this here because it was you who made those wonderful templates and we don't have a portal yet where we could communicate. What do you think? ←Humus sapiens←Talk 05:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Humus, it's only me here, but I will pass your message on to "everyone". Yes, your suggestion is excellent, it is certainly time for what you describe, but I have no experience with Wikipedia portals, and if you know how, go ahead and start an Israel portal and I am sure editors of Israel-related articles will support you and join in the effort/s. Behatzlachah. IZAK 05:33, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Isha Katlanit

 * Maimonides, consistent with his rational attitude, tried to make the Isha Katlanit rule less stricter.

It is very much POV to state that Maimonides deliberately modified the rules, and did so on the basis of his purported "rational attitude". By phrasing his stance this way, one completely ignores the following:
 * he did not change any laws, but was simply lenient in undecided questions
 * while he appears a pure rationalist, he did not modify laws when they appeared unrational.

I think my phrasing was more NPOV than the old version. JFW | T@lk  22:54, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Da`ath Torah
I've made some edits, mostly for style, to the text at Daat Torah, and noted my concerns with the article at Talk:Daat Torah. Tomer TALK 17:29, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:SHASHAZ


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Fergal Keane

Fergal Patrick Keane (born 6 January 1961) is an Irish foreign correspondent with BBC News, and an author. For some time, Keane was the BBC's correspondent in South Africa. He is a nephew of the Irish playwright, novelist and essayist John B. Keane.

Early life
Born in London, England, Keane grew up in Dublin and later in Cork. His father was the Listowel-born actor, Éamonn Keane. He attended three primary schools in Dublin: Scoil Bhride, a gaelscoil (Irish-language school), St. Mary's College and Terenure College, and, later, one primary school in Cork, St. Joseph's.

In a 1999 interview with The Independent, Keane said that his gaelscoil education proved useful in later life: "The grounding in the Irish language I had at Scoil Bhride has never left me. In a foreign country when I'm on the phone and don't wish people to understand what I'm saying, I speak Irish and no Serb listening in is going to crack the code."

His secondary education was at Presentation Brothers College in Cork, where Keane says he was encouraged to join the school debating society, and where he won the Provincial Gold Medal for Public Speaking (on the subject of police brutality in Ireland). Today, Keane continues to draw on this experience acting as a public speaker, event chair and after dinner speaker.

Career
On finishing school in 1979, Keane started his career as a journalist with the Limerick Leader. Subsequently, he worked for The Irish Press. Later, he moved into broadcast journalism with Raidió Teilifís Éireann (RTÉ).

Keane joined the BBC in 1989 as Northern Ireland Correspondent, but in August 1990 he was appointed their Southern African Correspondent, having covered the region during the early 1980s. From 1990 to 1994 Keane's reports covered the township unrest in South Africa, the first multi-racial elections following the end of apartheid, and the genocide in Rwanda. In 1995 he was appointed Asia Correspondent based in Hong Kong and two years later, after the handover, he returned to be based in the BBC's World Affairs Unit in London.

Keane was named as overall winner of the Amnesty International Press Awards in 1993 and won an Amnesty television prize in 1994 for his investigation of the Rwandan genocide, Journey into Darkness. He is the only journalist to have won both the Royal Television Society Journalist of the Year award and the Sony Radio Reporter of the Year in the same year – 1994. He won The Voice of The Viewer award and a Listener Award for his 1996 BBC Radio 4 From Our Own Correspondent despatch Letter to Daniel, addressed to his newborn son, and a One World Television Award in 1999. He won a BAFTA award for his documentary on Rwanda, Valentina's Story. He has won the James Cameron Prize for war reporting, the Edward R. Murrow Award for foreign reporting, the Index on Censorship prize for journalistic integrity, and the 1995 Orwell Prize for his book Season of Blood. In May 2009 he won a Sony Gold Award for his Radio 4 series Taking A Stand. He also won a Peabody Award and an Emmy Award for his reporting as part of the BBC team covering the 2015 refugee crisis.

In the three-part documentary Forgotten Britain, serialised on the BBC in May 2000, Keane travelled across the country meeting people living on the edge in affluent societies. Keane was a patron of the UK-based development agency Msaada, which assisted survivors of the Rwandan genocide.

In 2010, he published his first history work, Road of Bones: the Siege of Kohima 1944, an account of the epic battle that halted the Japanese invasion of India in 1944.

One of his projects is the five-part series The Story of Ireland, a 2011 documentary co-produced by BBC Northern Ireland and Raidió Teilifís Éireann.

Keane has been awarded honorary degrees in literature from the University of Strathclyde, Bournemouth University and Staffordshire University. On 15 December 2011, he received an honorary Doctor of Letters from the University of Liverpool. Keane was appointed an OBE for services to journalism in the 1997 New Year's Honours list.

In April 2018, he was awarded the Christopher Ewart-Biggs Memorial Prize for Wounds.

In November 2018, Keane provided the commentary for the Westminster Abbey service marking the centenary of the Armistice.

The BBC revealed in January 2020 that Keane had suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) for several years, and consequently moved out of his role as Africa editor in order to aid his recovery. In May 2022, he presented a documentary Fergal Keane: Living with PTSD on BBC Two, in which he discussed the impact of PTSD and considered the most recent medical thinking on the condition and its treatment, explaining that his disorder had led him to consider withdrawing from conflict reporting.

In July 2023, he revisited the people and locations from the series Forgotten Britain for a second time in the BBC One programme Brave Britain with Fergal Keane. This new documentary was a one-off programme by filmmaker Alice Doyard and featured new footage of Keane in Cornwall, Glasgow and on the Lincoln Green estate in Leeds, with archive footage taken from programmes made in 2000 and 2012.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Fergal Keane


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Talk:Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Another example of User:Michaelm's campaign to plaster the "social democratic" label all over Wikipedia. If he had bothered to do research on the organization, say by checking the website linked at the bottom of the article, he would have found this:
 * The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives is an independent, non-partisan research institute concerned with issues of social and economic justice. Founded in 1980, the CCPA is one of Canada’s leading progressive voices in public policy debates.

Notice how it says "progressive", and not "social democratic"? Kevintoronto 15:04, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Those guys are decidedly on the Left, they said it. Non-partisan only means not linked to a party, not politicaly neutral.

 * Depends what you mean by "Left." The CCPA follows Keynesian theories on economics which are centrist; they seek a compromise between the Left and Right. But today Keynes would probably be labled a Leftist, if not directly called "socialist" or "communist." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.31.118 (talk) 16:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * So let's just leave out the opinions on this topic (whether the majority of members or contributors have one leg shorter than the other) all together, shall we? And focus on providing some verifiable, reliable, third party references to support the contents of the article. I will try to get back to this, time permitting. Garth of the Forest (talk) 18:30, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Removed adjective "very" in the intro since using National Post editorials probably aren't the least biased on labels either. I see that other policy think-tanks in the List of Political and economic think tanks based in Canada rarely use the labels "left" or "right" (although some look like adverts from the groups' websites themselves.) I'll see if I can scrounge up some references from journals rather than using an op-ed, and try to standardize if possible. Fourloves 01:44, 7 February 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourloves (talk • contribs)

Corrected the 'Bruce Campbell' link Oct 2011. It linked the Director of CCPA to the article on the American actor (Burn Notice, Army of Darkness) of the same name. Sorry, I think this is a different Bruce Campbell, guys. LTomBear — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.86.107 (talk) 21:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Clean up and Infobox
I think the article can be cleaned up without too much effort, grouping the existing information into subsections such as History, Publications or Projects, etc. I can also add more complete citations, though they may still be mostly primary sources. Mattramsden (talk) 15:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Is there any reason not to add an Infobox? I assume Infobox Organization would be the template to use, with whatever basic information is readily available to start, and adding the logo. I'll take a stab at that. Mattramsden (talk) 15:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


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Hook (boxing)

A hook is a punch in boxing. It is performed by turning the core muscles and back, thereby swinging the arm, which is bent at an angle near or at 90 degrees, in a horizontal arc into the opponent. A hook is usually aimed at the jaw, but it can also be used for body shots, especially to the liver.

Technique and variations
Hook punches can be thrown by either the lead hand or the rear hand, but the term used without a qualifier usually refers to a lead hook.

When throwing a hook, the puncher shifts his body weight to the lead foot, allowing him to pivot his lead foot and generate kinetic energy through the hip, torso, and shoulder, swinging his lead fist horizontally toward the opponent. Sometimes, depending on style and what feels comfortable to the individual, the lead foot is not pivoted. Pivoting increases the power of the punch, but leaves one lacking in options to follow up with, such as the right uppercut or right hook.

The hook is a powerful punch with knockout power.

Variations of the hook are the shovel hook or upper-hook; they are body punches that combine characteristics of both the hook and the uppercut.

Another variation on the hook is the check hook, which combines an ordinary hook with footwork that removes a boxer from the path of a lunging opponent.

Several boxers noted for their hooks are Joe Frazier, Bob Foster, Jack Dempsey, Henry Cooper, David Tua, Tommy Morrison, Rubén Olivares, Félix Trinidad, Andy Lee, Sam Hyde and Mike Tyson.

title: Hook (boxing)


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There's Something About Marrying

"There's Something About Marrying" is the tenth episode of the sixteenth season of the American animated television series The Simpsons. In the episode, Springfield legalizes same-sex marriage to increase tourism. After becoming a minister, Homer starts to wed people to make money. Meanwhile, Marge's sister Patty comes out as a lesbian and reveals she is going to marry a woman named Veronica. The episode title is a play on the Farrelly brothers' 1998 romantic comedy There's Something About Mary.

This was the third time that an episode of The Simpsons focused on homosexuality. The episode—written by J. Stewart Burns and directed by Nancy Kruse—was inspired by the 2004 same-sex weddings that occurred in San Francisco. According to executive producer Al Jean, the staff wanted the episode to explore what the different characters' stances on same-sex marriage were. Around the time of the episode's original airdate, February 20, 2005, the same-sex marriage question was a controversial political issue in the United States and the episode became controversial, leading to the episode receiving criticism from numerous conservative groups, including the Parents Television Council and the American Family Association. Positive reaction to the episode came from, among others, the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation and the gay-oriented website AfterEllen, with negative reception to the episode from, amongst others, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation and the gay-oriented website LGBTQ Nation, who criticised the depiction of Veronica (a parody of trans pro golfer Mianne Bagger) as transphobic.

During the first airing, 10.5 million people watched "There's Something About Marrying" and it became the highest-rated episode of the season. The episode had received a lot of publicity in the media before its broadcast—not only because of the same-sex marriage controversy but also because of Patty's outing. It was revealed in July 2004 that a character would come out as gay in the episode, leading to much speculation from fans and the press. Bookmaker websites were even posting odds on which character it would be, with Patty receiving the best odds.

Plot
Bart and Milhouse torment a tourist named Howell Huser (a parody of television personality Huell Howser), who is then chased out of town by bullies Dolph, Jimbo, and Kearney. Huser is later revealed to be a media personality, and he appears on a network's morning television show warning tourists against visiting Springfield, causing the Springfield tourism business to collapse. Mayor Quimby holds an emergency meeting at the town hall to solve the problem, and after many senseless suggestions, Lisa suggests that Springfield legalize same-sex marriage to entice visitors to their town. All of Springfield happily agrees with Lisa's idea, and the town makes a commercial that is broadcast throughout America, convincing hundreds of homosexual couples to come to Springfield. However, Reverend Lovejoy insists that the Bible forbids same-sex marriage and refuses to marry any gay couples. Homer, upon learning that ministers are paid $200 per couple, abandons his own indifference to the process and becomes a minister himself with help from the online "e-Piscopal" Church, whereupon he marries every gay couple in town and who arrive to the town specifically to get married.

Meanwhile, at the Simpson family's home, Patty comes out as a lesbian, saying that she is in love with a pro golfer named Veronica (a parody of trans pro golfer Mianne Bagger) and asking Homer to marry them. While Homer immediately accepts Patty's sexuality (briefly improving their relationship), an uncomfortable Marge reprimands her for having not told their family and insists that Patty marry a man. Patty is angered and calls Marge out for being a hypocrite in acting liberal about the issues except when it applies to her own family, pointing out that she cannot accept their family's sexuality for what it is. Before the wedding, Marge accidentally discovers Veronica is actually male. She decides to keep quiet about it since Patty will be marrying a man.

During the wedding ceremony, Marge becomes especially touched by Patty's heartfelt declaration of love for Veronica. This prompts Marge to disclose Veronica's actual gender in front of the whole wedding assembly, much to Patty’s horror. Veronica reveals their legal name to be “Leslie Robin Swisher”: having initially been cross-dressing as a woman to get onto the LPGA golf tour, before deciding to live as a woman permanently on meeting and falling in mutual love at first sight with Patty there, so that they could be together. After asking Patty whether she still wants to get married on knowing the truth, Patty replies "Hell no – I like girls!", to applause from the congregation.

Afterwards, Marge reconciles with Patty after telling her that she has learned a lesson and has accepted the fact that Patty is a lesbian. In a meta-reference to the show's tendency to episodically return to status quo ante, Lisa notes that this is the end of Homer's wedding business. When Bart asks, "Why?", Lisa shrugs her shoulders and makes a non-committal noise.

Patty and her other sister, Selma, then go to leave a bag at the airport unattended, as a way to meet security personnel they can date.

Production
"There's Something About Marrying" was written by co-executive producer J. Stewart Burns and directed by Nancy Kruse as part of the sixteenth season of The Simpsons. Work on the episode started in March 2004, after the 2004 San Francisco same-sex weddings, a period during February 2004 when the city was issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples. This served as the Simpsons staff's inspiration for "There's Something About Marrying". The plot point where Springfield tries to increase tourism by marketing towards the LGBT community also had a basis in reality. An example is Fort Lauderdale, which became a popular tourist destination for gays and lesbians in the mid-2000s. Executive producer Al Jean said they were interested in doing the episode because they could explore the various characters' different positions on gay marriage while remaining neutral. "Lisa thinks it's good for civil rights. The reverend of the local Protestant church is opposed to it. Other people think tourists will come to town. Mayor Quimby wants the money. We don't take a position as much as explore everybody's positions," he commented.

Matt Groening, the creator of The Simpsons, stated that the staff wanted to out Patty as gay because portraying her as a "love-starved spinster [...] seemed old" on the show. There had previously been hints about Patty's orientation. For example, in the season thirteen episode "Jaws Wired Shut" she is part of the Springfield Gay Pride Parade's "stayin' in the closet" float, though only her voice was heard and she was not seen.

Themes and analysis
The episode's plotline revolves around homosexuality—the third time for The Simpsons. The first was season eight's "Homer's Phobia", and the second was "Three Gays of the Condo" from season fourteen, both of which won Primetime Emmy Awards for Outstanding Animated Program. This time it centered on the right for homosexuals to get married and the coming-out of a character. In the episode, Homer is shown as being tolerant with homosexuality, in contrast with "Homer's Phobia", in which he was initially portrayed as being strongly (and literally) homophobic. In that episode, the Simpson family gets a new friend that Homer dissociates himself from after finding out that he is gay. He also fears that the friend will have a negative influence on Bart and decides to ensure Bart's heterosexuality by taking him to do manly things such as hunting. As James Delingpole of The Daily Telegraph writes, it was first after "Homer's Phobia" that Homer began to be portrayed as enlightened about homosexuality. Marge, on the other hand, who had previously been portrayed as supportive of gay people on the show, is seen as disapproving of her sister's sexual orientation.

According to the publication Zeek: A Jewish Journal of Thought and Culture and Value War: Public Opinion and the Politics of Gay Rights, it was the controversial lesbian outing of the main character (played by Ellen DeGeneres) in the sitcom Ellen in 1997 that paved the way for Patty's coming-out in this episode, as well as for many other gay characters on other television shows. In his book Queers in American Popular Culture, Jim Elledge noted that unlike many episodes of The Simpsons that go through a situation and then everything returns to normal during the ending, this one does not. He commented that the staff of the show could have made Patty heterosexual again at the end of the episode and leave it how it was before by having her marry Leslie. Instead, they ended it in a way that could potentially be experienced as distasteful to the heteronormative audience by having Patty exclaim "Hell no! I like girls!" to Leslie's marriage proposal. The author also noted that it is possible the Simpsons staff chose Patty to come out as gay instead of a male character because lesbians were "traditionally considered more acceptable" on television. She did, however, not "adhere to the eroticized male lesbian fantasy or fit into the loveable, asexual guise of the comedy lesbian" that had previously been seen on shows such as Ellen. Instead, Patty is "rude, crude, and not ashamed of declaring her sexual preferences", and this could make her unpalatable to some viewers, according to Elledge.

Around the episode's original broadcast in early 2005, the same-sex marriage question was one of the hottest political issues in America. It had been an especially hot topic during the then-recent presidential election in the United States. Marty Kaplan, a professor at Annenberg School for Communication and radio host on Air America Radio, commented that the episode is telling "those who demonize homosexuality, or what [these people] call the homosexual agenda," anything from "lighten up" to "get out of town". This was not the first time that an episode of the show had brought up a current issue. Writing in an article about "There's Something About Marrying" for The New York Times, Sharon Waxman said that "as television's longest-running situation comedy, The Simpsons is no stranger to hot-button social, religious and political issues, mocking wardrobe malfunctions, Hollywood liberals and born-again Christians, among other targets." On the episode's broadcast, Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation director Damon Romine criticised its depiction of Patty's fiancée 'Leslie Robin "Veronica" Swisher', a parody of trans pro golfer Mianne Bagger, as transphobic, stating that "the 'reveal' of Veronica reinforces a dangerous myth that transgender people are trying to deceive or trick us. When Marge dramatically ripped away Veronica's choker to reveal a bulging Adam's apple, it seemed funny; but in real life, such revelations are often followed by terrible violence. It's no joke.".

Speculation, publicity and broadcast
"There's Something About Marrying" was originally broadcast on February 20, 2005, in the United States. It was reported a long time in advance of the episode's airing that a major character would come out as gay during the episode. At the Comic-Con convention in July 2004, Al Jean revealed: "We have a show where, to raise money, Springfield legalizes gay marriage. Homer becomes a minister by going on the internet and filling out a form. A long-time character comes out of the closet, but I'm not saying who." This led to much media speculation and publicity in the press for the episode. The last such "mystery Simpsons storyline", as BBC News called it, occurred with the "Alone Again, Natura-Diddily" episode in which it was announced prior to the broadcast that a character would be killed in the episode, leading to weeks of speculation before the revelation that it was Maude Flanders.

There was a widespread debate among fans of the series as to who the character coming out of the closet would be, also similar to how they years earlier debated who shot the character Mr. Burns. Matt Groening joked at the Comic-Con convention that "it's Homer". Many fans correctly guessed that it would be one of Homer's sisters-in-law, either Patty or Selma, while others believed it to be Waylon Smithers. It had for a long time been hinted on the show that the Smithers character was gay and in love with his boss Mr. Burns. However, as The Baltimore Sun writes, it would have been unlikely for Smithers to be the outed character because it would not have been a surprise to fans, and his love for his heterosexual boss would prevent him from marrying another person. Patty was suspected by fans and the press because she had not often been seen dating men on the show. The tabloid newspaper The Sun revealed already in September 2004 that the character who would come out was Patty, though this was regarded as a rumor, and Jean would not confirm it. Bookmakers in the United States and the United Kingdom took bets on which character would be uncovered as homosexual, and if there would be a kiss featured in the episode—BetUS laid odds at four to five that it was Patty, while Smithers had four to one odds and Ned Flanders fifteen to one odds. A kiss was given odds of seven to five. BetUS said gamblers made more than 900 bets on the coming-out on their website. According to The Baltimore Sun, another betting site named PaddyPower.com "stopped taking wagers because so much money was being placed on [Patty]." Jean told The Advocate that he thought it was "an insane thing for someone to take bets on a result that can be determined by other people", referring to the Simpsons staff, "and could be changed by them at the last minute."

The episode was heavily promoted and hyped, with some sources calling it "much anticipated" and "long-awaited". In addition to the publicity about the coming-out of a character, "There's Something About Marrying" was discussed a lot in the media before its airing because of its gay marriage theme. The entertainment website MovieWeb predicted in October 2004 that the episode would become controversial when it aired because of the large children audience and "also because it comes at a time when many states are seeking to ban same-sex wedding ceremonies." According to Knight Ridder, "some conservative groups [...] growled in advance over the episode", but most pre-broadcast publicity was directed at the outing. Mark Pinsky, on the other hand, wrote in his book The Gospel According to The Simpsons that when the announcement that an episode of the show would focus on gay marriage was made, "it stoked a debate that few issues and few television shows could." Before its original airing, Pinsky was interviewed about the episode on ABC's World News Tonight, CNN, BBC Radio, and more, as the author of a book on religion in The Simpsons.

The Fox network, which airs The Simpsons, chose to begin the episode with a Parental Advisory warning stating that it "contains discussions of same-sex marriage" and that "parental discretion is advised." This was a first for the show, which had not received parental advisories before even when dealing with themes such as drug use, gambling addictions, theft, crime, and violence. A warning similar to the one displayed at the beginning of this episode was used in front of the gay-themed "The Puppy Episode" of the Ellen series. The buzz "There's Something About Marrying" had received attracted a lot of viewers to its broadcast, and therefore the Fox network chose to air it during the ratings sweeps. The episode was watched by 10.5 million people in the United States, making it the highest-rated episode of the sixteenth season of The Simpsons. It was up by two million from the season's average rating.

Reception
"There's Something About Marrying" featured the first appearance of an animated same-sex marriage on network television.

Television columnist Ray Richmond wrote that the episode was a cultural milestone for The Simpsons and that the "issue [of gay marriage] was mainstream to some degree, but now that [the staff has] deigned it worthy of the show it is interwoven into the popular culture. The Simpsons bestowed upon something a pop culture status it never had before, simply by being ripe for a joke." John Kenneth White, author of the book Barack Obama's America, similarly called "There's Something About Marrying" a cultural barrier breaker.

The episode, dealing with "one of the most divisive issues in American society" according to The New York Times, became a subject of controversy after its broadcast. The authors of The Marriage and Family Experience called it "one of the more controversial episodes of a frequently controversial cartoon." Several conservative groups and American Christian conservatives thought it was promoting same-sex marriage. Parents Television Council president L. Brent Bozell III criticized "There's Something About Marrying" for bringing up the issue. Even though he had not seen the episode himself, he commented that "at a time when the public mood is overwhelmingly against gay marriage, any show that promotes gay marriage is deliberately bucking the public mood." A researcher for the American Family Association, named Ed Vitagliano, claimed the presentation of same-sex marriage in the episode was "very one-sided". He said that this episode proved "Hollywood's blatant pro-homosexual bias" because despite The Simpsons being "generally kind of a wacky animated program" it was not neutral on the issue. Bozell also worried about the influence the episode would have on children, despite the parental discretion advisory at the beginning, commenting: "You've got a show watched by millions of children. Do children need to have gay marriage thrust in their faces as an issue? Why can't we just entertain them?" Similarly, Vitagliano said that many children watch The Simpsons and Hollywood "will pull out all the stops to promote same-sex marriage — and children will be influenced by it."

Mark Washburn of Knight Ridder wrote that at the time of the episode's broadcast, most Americans were accustomed to seeing homosexual characters on television. He said this is why Patty's coming-out did not become as controversial as the episode's examination of the same-sex marriage issue, which was more sensitive in the country then. The controversy became so big that local news programs in certain cities aired segments about it. In response to the claims that this episode was supporting gay marriage, Al Jean replied that "we don't really take any positions for or against anything, we just like to examine all sides of an issue and I think that anyone who would get their political wisdom from a cartoon might be sadly mistaken." Likewise, Mark Pinsky writes in The Gospel According to The Simpsons that once the episode ended, it was hard to tell what stance on same-sex marriage the writers had and that "both sides of the controversy had their say, voiced by various Simpsons characters". Jean has also cited the episode in defense to critics who say The Simpsons has lost its relevance and edginess in later years. In his book The Simpsons: An Uncensored, Unauthorized History, John Ortved responded to this, commenting that despite the controversies the episode was "in fact a long-winded and lame exploration of the topic."

"There's Something About Marrying" was met with positive reception as well, particularly from gay rights groups. The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) was welcoming of the episode, calling it "a ray of light". GLAAD executive director Joan Garry enjoyed seeing Marge's transformation, from having ambivalent feelings for her sister to then supporting her. He commented that "when Marge learns that Patty's about to marry someone who isn't really a lesbian, she comes to realize that what her sister really deserves is to be in love with and married to a person who's right for her. If millions of Simpsons viewers came away from last night's episode with that little bit of moral truth, it was time well spent." AfterEllen.com's David Kennerley approved of the willingness of a "hit network TV show in prime time, watched by children and adults" to "serve up such a politically charged issue". Rick Garcia, an activist of the gay rights group Equality Illinois, said to the Chicago Tribune that the episode would likely affect society in a positive way because of the iconic status of the show which "shape[s] our attitudes". Unlike many of the conservative groups, Kennerley noted that "in the show's tradition of equal-opportunity lampooning, the message is not all pro-gay. Irksome lesbian stereotypes abound, and Nelson the bully suggests they 'legalize gay funerals.' And naturally, Reverend Lovejoy shutters his church to the same-sex sinners." According to Simpsons writer Mike Reiss, the episode also had supporters among conservative groups. He told Encore magazine that "gay people came out very much in favor of it and were happy with the episode, but arch conservatives and right-wing Christians loved the episode, too, because they seemed to think we were making fun of gay people. We really had it both ways."

Kennerley further wrote that "based on this episode, [...] The Simpsons is in top form. It still reigns as the funniest, brashest, fastest-paced half-hour you'll see on television." Bill Gibron of PopMatters also thought the episode was funny, commenting that it "explored the often-cited 'slippery slope' of allowing matrimony to be defined outside the parameters of a man and a woman—with hilarious results." In regards to the revelation that Patty was gay, The A.V. Club wrote that it "wasn't particularly earth-shattering" but that Marge's initial reaction provided a good twist to the episode. J. Stewart Burns received a Writers Guild of America Award nomination in the animation category for his work on "There's Something About Marrying", although he lost the award to another Simpsons writer.

On the episode's release, Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation director Damon Romine criticised the depiction of Patty's fiancée 'Leslie Robin "Veronica" Swisher', a parody of trans pro golfer Mianne Bagger, as transphobic, stating that "the 'reveal' of Veronica reinforces a dangerous myth that transgender people are trying to deceive or trick us. When Marge dramatically ripped away Veronica's choker to reveal a bulging Adam's apple, it seemed funny; but in real life, such revelations are often followed by terrible violence. It's no joke.". In a 2022 retrospective, Comic Book Resources criticised the episode as "surprisingly transphobic", a sentiment echoed by Aubrey Norwood, Gayest Episode Ever, and, in 2023, LGBTQ Nation.

title: There's Something About Marrying


text:
Wigston Fields

Wigston Fields is a district of the borough of Oadby and Wigston in Leicestershire, England. It lies between Leicester and the town of Wigston on the A5199 road. The population is included in the Wigston St. Wolstan's ward of the borough council.

title: Wigston Fields


text:
Talk:John Foxx

Facts
this article would do better to concentrate on facts and leave out the subjective & florid pontifications on the meaning of Foxx's lyrics! --feline1 15:07, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have cut this to shreds as it was a complete shambles. BScotland

citations &c
There are several CD's of interviews with John Foxx about his music career. Some of the info in this Wikipedia article comes from those interviews, but since they haven't been transcribed (and if they were it would probably be illegal to publish them on the Web) how can proper citations be provided?? 82.46.181.249 (talk) 17:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't know if Wikipedia has a standard guideline for referring to sources that are not in written format. I have been looking for one for some time but if there is a guideline, it's lost amougst all the useless stuff. I'd presume the correct way of referencing would be to provide details of the source used (name of the release, release date if known, publisher/record company, catalogue number, name of the interviewer if known) in a style similar to what you'd do if referring to a book. The point of citations is after all that a reader can—if he or she wants to—verify the information. Therefore a citation should include the information needed to find the relevant release. For instance, I'd cite the interview disc that accompanied Sideways something like this:

 * Sideways CD2: Interview with John Foxx About the Album From Trash. Metamatic Records 2006. META13CD.

 * That should give enough information for anyone interested in looking up the CD. As an unrelated side note, new conversations should be added to the bottom of the talk page, not the top. — Kjet (talk · contribs) 20:59, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

The latter Ultravox
The second paragraph of the Departure from Ultravox section probably goes too much into the post-Foxx Ultravox. This material should be in the Ultravox article, if it isn't already. 207.172.87.49 05:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:John Foxx.jpg
Image:John Foxx.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:John Foxx.jpg
Image:John Foxx.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Shifting City and Cathedral Oceans release dates
I've been delving into information about Shifting City in order to add an article about the album, but stumbled on an interesting dilemma: there does not seem to be a certainty on when the album was released. This article lists its release date as 1997 (the same date of course going for Cathedral Oceans), as does Foxx's official website. Yet in both the Shifting City & Cathedral Oceans CD's they're marked as copyright (and whatever that P symbol stands for) 1995 Metamatic Records. The Discogs discography lists both as being released in 1995, while Allmusic quotes 1995 in the review but 1997 in the release details. So what? When? Huh? — Kjet (talk · contribs) 13:02, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If it can help: Politikens Store Rockleksikon (2004, in Danish), which is usually a reliable source, lists the release date for both albums as March 1997. – IbLeo (talk) 19:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The albums were released in 1997. I'd been waiting for them for some time; I believe they were recorded in 1995. I don't know what caused the delay. 82.46.181.249 (talk) 17:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Metamatic Records
Any reason why the Metamatic Records article has been redirected to the John Foxx article? Metamatic Records also has the artist Louis Gordon. I feel the record label with the releases should have a seperate article.--Electronic Music (talk) 16:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Just checked other articles that link to the Metamatic Records article, and they all lead to the John Foxx article (which is not Metamatic Records).--Electronic Music (talk) 16:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Birth date
I began to trust the astrology web date. 1. In an October 2008 interview, he declared his age, 61. (put in the References section) 2. In the 1977 swedish interview, i think he said "30" "almost", and it was (i think) in prior to the release of the Ha! Ha! Ha! album (October 1977). He was talking about Eno, in other words about the Ultravox! debut album. (put in the References section) 3. The astrology page, indicated other true birthdates, like of Pete Shelley, Midge Ure and Gary Numan. 4. In his youth he was a mod and a hippy (according to the The Golden Section Tour + The Omnidelic Exotour booklet). In 1947 Marc Bolan (another from-mod-to-hippie guy) also was born.

Sure 100% (or 99.9999....%). Francodamned (talk) 22:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Allmusic, one of the more reliable sources for music related information, also lists his date of birth as 26 September 1947. Wikipedia needs a raft of similar third party, reliable sources to the contrary, before any alternative should be posted on this article. I am certain 1948 (or more recent) are 'show business ages'.

 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Allmusic listed the date shortly after I wrote it here, I remember. Before that, only that astrology page contained it. An interesting link is, whose second article is a german interview about the band in their first line-up, being 1977 or 1978 (because first guitarist Steve Shears was with them), and lists each member's age at the moment, with John being 28 at the time. Following your comment, he was 30, but no. The first 1978 tour Ultravox did outside Britain was shortly after Shears was sacked. Francodamned (talk)
 * If I understand you correctly, you are saying that your addition of the 1947 date to this article is what (presumably) caused Allmusic to publish it. Do you have a concrete source that supports 1948 as his birth year? It seems as if you have deduced it after reading an article. If so, that would be original research, and not allowed, especially for biographies of living persons. Perhaps we can find an unambiguous source. - MrX 13:41, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * In fact, there are two articles: and . But Foxx wasn't 30 or very close to his 30th birthday at the moment of the circa late '77/early '78 german interview.
 * I see his birth year on the blog, but which of the articles at ultravox.npage.de references his age? There are quite a few articles and they're not searchable. I think we should add citations to the article so that another editor doesn't change it back to the 1947 date. - MrX 01:08, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Which's the article in the german site? It's the second one. However, the photo doesn't indicate the name of the newspaper or magazine where it was published.Francodamned (talk) 02:49, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It seems like 1948 is the most reliable information that we have now. Now if we could just get a photo for the article. - MrX 11:44, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Foxx was born in 1947, as stated in the Metamatic company records so I'm going to correct this on the page. Dadge (talk) 16:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Someone has scanned the birth records which show 1948 is the correct year. I'm glad this has finally been cleared up! Dadge (talk) 18:56, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Quality of article
I have removed 2,000+ bytes worth of unsourced, opinionated text out of the article, and tidied up formatting, information flow and regularised the referencing format. It is still short of a decent article. The external links section needs a reappraisal, the discography is way too detailed and therefore almost unreadable, and there are a number of paragraphs without any references. Be bold by all means, but please do not add your own opinion and/or elements of fancruft/trivia/hearsay.

Verifiable sources from third parties are also still in the minority of the overall reference count.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 14:44, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You have my support. I may take a stab at putting the discography into a sortable table when I have a chance. - MrX 14:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you - every little bit helps. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:02, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080820011805/http://www.ultravox.org.uk/ImageFolio31_files/media/Fanzines/Extreme_Voice/EV16-issue-web.pdf to http://www.ultravox.org.uk/ImageFolio31_files/media/Fanzines/Extreme_Voice/EV16-issue-web.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100419045735/http://blog.thequietman.co.uk:80/2009/05/the-quiet-man-albumperformanceexhibition/ to http://blog.thequietman.co.uk/2009/05/the-quiet-man-albumperformanceexhibition/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110722040502/http://www.kondoria.it/content/view/301/54/ to http://www.kondoria.it/content/view/301/54/

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External links modified
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Missing 'Burning Car'
This article does not mention Burning Car, a 1980 Foxx release that already has a Wikipedia article. I'm not knowledgeable enough on JF to add it in the correct place in this article.ToaneeM (talk) 12:00, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I am not a Foxx fan, but statistically speaking "Burning Car" was one of five single releases by him in 1980, four of which (including "Burning Car") were minor hits in the UK Singles Chart. In a lengthy career such as his, it is not normal to list every single release in a Wiki mainstream article; although it is correctly included in the John Foxx discography. If someone chooses to place it in the main text, I am not going to argue, but on face value it hardly seems more noteworthy than the other singles issued that year.

 * Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Ghost Harmonic
no mention of this group anywhere in the article despite him being apart of it 73.72.6.216 (talk) 03:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * No, but their only recording is mentioned in his discography article. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 17:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:John Foxx


text:
Talk:Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit

The text of the Kanun can be found at:

http://www.ganixhafolli.com/Kanuni/hyrje.htm

=Merging= ... seems like a splendid idea, however I for one would favour keeping the shorter title Kanun and redirecting the full original version Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit. Yes? //Big Adamsky 20:21, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that these articles should be merged. Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit is the Albanian name for this code. In English this is normally translated as 'The Kanun of Lek Dukagjin'. Surely in the English language Wikipedia, article titles should be in English, so while I agree that Kanun is the more appropriately named of the two articles, I would suggest naming the merged article Kanun of Lek Dukagjin. Mattwhiteski 15:16, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

It should stay as Kanun and this one merged into it. --Asterion 02:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit


text:
Silent Valley Reservoir

The Silent Valley Reservoir is a reservoir located in the Mourne Mountains near Kilkeel, County Down in Northern Ireland. It supplies most of the water for County Down, surrounding counties and most of Belfast. It is owned and maintained by Northern Ireland Water Limited (formerly DRD Water Service). The reservoir was built between 1923 and 1933 by a workforce of over 1,000 men, nine of whom died during construction.

History
In 1891, the Belfast Water Commissioners (BWC and later the Belfast City and District Water Commissioners or BC&DWC) hired Luke Livingston Macassey to investigate options for a source of an additional water supply for the expanding city of Belfast. Macassey selected the Mourne Mountains for the reasons summarised in a 1935 report:"The portion of the Mourne Mountains acquired by the Commissioners totals approximately 9,000 acres. It is all mountainland [sic], uninhabited, and a large part of it is rocky and precipitous. It extends from about 330 feet above sea-level to a maximum of 2,796 feet above sea-level, Slieve Donard being the highest mountain within the area. It is practically devoid of trees, being covered with heather, gorse, and bracken where not granite rock and boulders. The average rainfall on the area is 57.6 inches per annum. It is drained by two streams : on the west, the Kilkeel river flowing due south, and the Annalong river, lying parallel to and to the east of the Kilkeel river, draining the Annalong Valley. The catchment of the Kilkeel river is 5,500 acres in extent, that of the Annalong river being 3,500 acres. The water of both these rivers is similar and of excellent quality, having 2 degrees of hardness." Private Acts of Parliament (in 1893, 1897 and 1899) allowed the BC&DWC to secure the 9000 acre catchment area with associated access and water rights. At the time the catchment was capable of providing some 30 e6impgal of water per day, however as this much was not required immediately, a three phase approach was followed:

 * 1) The first stage was to divert water from the Kilkeel and Annalong rivers through the newly constructed Mourne Conduit to a reservoir at Carryduff. These water pipes were capable of supplying 10 e6impgal of water per day. Work was completed in 1901.
 * 2) The second stage was to build a storage reservoir, the Silent Valley Reservoir, across the Kilkeel River. Design work on this phase began in 1910, but procurement of the work was delayed by World War I. A contract was eventually awarded in 1923 to S. Pearson & Son and work continued until 1933.
 * 3) The third stage was planned to be another storage reservoir in Annalong to impound the Annalong River. However, after the difficulties encountered in building the Silent Valley dam the second dam was not built. Instead, a tunnel was driven under Slieve Binnian between 1947 and 1951 to bring water from the Annalong river to the Silent Valley reservoir. Between 1953 and 1957, a second dam was built further up the Kilkeel river valley to create Ben Crom Reservoir.

The Mournes catchment area is surrounded by the Mourne Wall, built entirely by hand. Started in 1904, it took 18 years to complete.

Naming
An old name for the valley was Glen Setanta from a legend that the young Cú Chulainn spent time there. In the 1800s it was called Happy Valley apparently due to the jollity of prospecting Cornish miners. The name Silent Valley is supposed to derive from the absence of bird life during the long construction project.

The Binnian Tunnel
Between 1947 and 1951 over 150 men drove a tunnel underneath Slieve Binnian. The tunnel was built to carry water from the Annalong valley to the Silent Valley Dam, which had been completed in 1933, 14 years earlier. This was to further supply the growing demands of Belfast's water supply. Two work squads began at each end of the tunnel, and met half way almost 800 metres under the mountain. The technology in the day was lacking in every standard, and was lit by candlelight. When the two squads met, they were mere inches off. The tunnel measures 8 ft square – and 2.25 mi long. Its entry is at Dunnywater and its exit is on the roadside, a short distance from the visitor's centre. The Binnian Tunnel was officially opened on Thursday, 28 August 1952.

title: Silent Valley Reservoir


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Asian Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 17:12, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

Asian Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons
A mission statement. Article does not establish notability and is unencyclopedic. Delete. jni 15:11, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No value as is. -- Egil 16:13, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Rewrite or delete, currently not an encyclopedic article. Thue | talk 17:40, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as copyvio from . I just realized that the article Asian Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, to which I have contributed some editing, also originates as a copyvio from the same source: The organization as such and the journal are both probably notable enough, though. / u p p l a n d 09:01, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: There is also a duplicate of this article under name AsianAOMS. Someone has already submitted it to WP:CP. jni 11:28, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Necessary improvements have been made and in the interest of helping improve and enhance the standard of oral and maxillofacial surgery in the region please do not delete the page. The page was created by staff of Scientific communications International Limited who is the copyright owner of http://www.AsianAOMS.org

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
ZSU-57-2

The ZSU-57-2 Ob'yekt 500 is a Soviet self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG), armed with two 57 mm autocannons. 'ZSU' stands for Zenitnaya Samokhodnaya Ustanovka (Зенитная Самоходная Установка), meaning "anti-aircraft self-propelled mount", '57' stands for the bore of the armament in millimetres and '2' stands for the number of gun barrels. It was the first Soviet mass-produced tracked SPAAG. In the USSR, it had the unofficial nickname Sparka (Спарка), meaning "twin mount," referring to the twin autocannon with which the vehicle is armed.

Origins
During World War II, ground-attack aircraft emerged as a significant threat to mechanized units on the move. Conventional towed anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) was an inadequate response under such conditions owing to the time needed to bring anti-aircraft machine guns into action. This experience made it clear that an anti-aircraft tracked vehicle, armed with small-bore autocannons or heavy machine guns, was needed. Vehicles such as the German Wirbelwind and specialized variants of the US M3 Half-track had been used to good effect in the final battles of World War II, both by the US and nations which had received the M3 through Lend-Lease.

In 1942, Soviet engineers developed the T-60-3. The vehicle, based on the T-60 light tank chassis, was armed with two 12.7 mm DShK heavy machine guns; but the prototype did not go into production because of flaws in the design. The SU-72 SPAAG and several other experimental vehicles based on the T-60 or T-70 light tank chassis and armed with 37 mm autocannon were also tested in 1942–1943. The ZSU-37 was based on the chassis of the SU-76M self-propelled gun (SPG) and armed with a 37 mm 61K anti-aircraft autocannon in an open-top rotating armoured turret. The vehicle entered production in February 1945 and was in small-scale production until 1948.

After World War II it became clear that the firepower of a single 37 mm AA gun was insufficient to destroy high-speed, low-altitude targets. SPAAGs based on light tank chassis had poor maneuverability in difficult terrain, slow off-road speed and insufficient range in comparison with medium tanks and SPGs. Thus the ZSU-37s were retired from service by the end of the 1940s.

ZSU-57-2 prototypes
For several years after World War II there were no new SPAAG models in the USSR except for the BTR-152A (which were armed with two or four 14.5mm KPV heavy machine guns, designed ZTPU-4) and the BTR-40A (ZTPU-2) wheeled SPAAGs. Two of the USSR's potential enemies – the United States and Great Britain, had high-quality air forces with substantial ground-attack experience. The need for a new tracked AA vehicle was apparent.

In February 1946, the Design Bureau of Works No. 174 in Omsk and the Research Institute No. 58 in Kaliningrad, Moscow Oblast submitted a joint project for a SPAAG based on the T-34 tank chassis, to be armed with four 37 mm AA guns, to the Technical Council of the Ministry of Transport. However, the project did not proceed due to the desire to concentrate attention on the newest tank chassis available.

The Design Bureau of Research Institute No. 58 (NII-58) (formerly known as the Central Artillery Design Bureau, TsAKB), under the supervision of V.G. Grabin, began the development of a twin 57 mm S-68 automatic anti-aircraft gun based on the 57mm S-60 in the spring of 1947. The first S-68 prototype (with ESP-76 diesel-electric drive), was ready in 1948. It was initially mounted on a S-79A four-wheel carriage; that system passed various tests but did not go into production.

The final project of the ZSU-57-2 (Ob'yekt 500), armed with twin S-68s and based on a light-weight T-54 tank chassis, was finished in 1948. The first prototype ZSU-57-2 was built in June 1950, the second in December 1950. After official tests, taking place between 27 January and 15 March 1951 in which the vehicle was driven for 1,500 km (932 miles) and 2,000 rounds were fired from its guns, six more prototypes were built for service tests. These prototypes had some improvements included, such as an increased ammunition load (300 rounds), but development stopped again due to the absence of improved S-68A guns. Various updates continued in 1952 and 1953. The service tests, in which two vehicles participated, took place in December 1954. This was due to delays in the development of drives for the S-68 guns. The ZSU-57-2 officially entered service in the Soviet Army on 14 February 1955.

Overview
Based on past experiences with SPAAG designs, Soviet engineers designed a vehicle that used a modified T-54 chassis, with four twin road wheels per side instead of five, and much thinner armour. The vehicle was armed with twin 57 mm S-68 autocannon in a new, large, rotating, open-topped turret. The ZSU-57-2 consists of three compartments: driver's in the front, fighting in the middle and engine-transmission at the rear. The hull is more spacious in comparison with the T-54 because of the thinner armour and has different locations for some equipment. The general layout, with transverse mounting of the engine, is the same.

Driver's compartment
The driver's compartment is located on the left hand side of the front of the hull. The driver's seat is moved forward and to the left in comparison with its location in the T-54. The compartment is equipped with a single-piece hatch cover opening to the left and two periscopic vision devices. One of them can be replaced by the TVN-1 infrared vision device which is operated together with the infrared headlamp (active night vision), which is mounted on the right track board. A fire-fighting equipment signal panel and a spare parts case are also located in the driver's compartment.

Turret
The open-topped box-type welded turret has a ball-bearing race ring 1850 mm in diameter. The turret rear can be removed, which makes replacement of the guns easier. The turret can be covered in the travelling position by a tarpaulin which has 16 plexiglass windows.

To aim the guns, base data such as the target's speed, direction and range must be entered into the sighting system by the sight adjuster, who sits to the left of the guns at the rear of the turret. The target's speed and direction is determined by visual estimation, while range can also be estimated visually or with the rangefinder. The upper front of the turret has two small ports with armoured covers meant for collimators of the sight.

To fire the guns, the breeches must first be opened. The left and right loaders, located in the forward part of the turret on both sides of the main armament, load clips into the magazines of their respective weapons. The loaders' travel seats should be stowed in clamps on the turret sides before opening fire. The gunner, seated on the left hand side in the middle of the turret, aims ("lays") the gun and opens fire using an electric trigger, which fires both barrels, or two-foot pedals, which can fire either barrel independently. If manual mechanical backup gunlaying is used instead of electro-hydraulic drive, three crew members instead of two should work with the sight. The commander, who sits on the right hand side in the middle of the turret, lays the gun in azimuth, the gunner in elevation and the sight adjuster enters data into the sight. The loaders feed clips into the twin autocannon manually as needed, similar to the Bofors 40mm.

Armament

The twin S-68s are recoil-operated and weigh 4,500 kg. Their construction was based on two 57 mm S-60 AA autocannons. The guns have a recoil of between 325 and 370 mm. The individual weapons cannot be swapped from one side to the other as they are mirror images. Each air-cooled gun barrel is 4365 mm long (76.6 calibers) and is fitted with a muzzle brake. They can be elevated or depressed between −5° and +85° at a speed of between 0.3° and 20° per second, the turret can traverse 360° at a speed of between 0.2° and 36° per second. Drive is from a direct current electric motor and universal hydraulic speed gears (a manual mechanical drive is also provided in case of electrohydraulic failure; with the use of mechanical drive, elevation speed is 4.5° per second and the turret traverse speed is 4° per second).

The guns firing together are capable of firing up to 210–240 fragmentation and armour-piercing tracer (AP-T) shells per minute, with a practical rate of fire of between 100 and 140 rounds per minute, which gives a fire time of 2-3 minutes before running out of ammo. Muzzle velocity is 1,000 m/s. Each clip has 4 rounds, each of which weighs 6.6 kg; the charge in each round consists of 1.2 kg of 11/7 nitrocellulose powder, a projectile weighs 2.8 kg. Maximum horizontal range is 12 km / 7 miles (with an effective range against ground targets of up to 4 km / 2.5 miles. Maximum vertical range is 8.8 km / 28,871ft with a maximum effective vertical range of 4.5 km / 14,750 ft). Fragmentation rounds have a safety-destructor which activates between 12 and 16 seconds after being fired to ensure the shells will not fall back to ground, so the maximum slant range of anti-aircraft fire is 6.5–7 km / 4-4.3 miles. BR-281 armour-piercing rounds are able to penetrate 110 mm armour at 500 m or 70 mm armour at 2,000 m (at 90° impact angle).

The S-68 autocannon was the most powerful AA gun installed on SPAAGs at that time. According to the statistical data of the Air Defence Research Institute No. 2, a direct hit of a single 57 mm shell could destroy a contemporary jet aircraft. In order to shoot down a jet bomber of the Canberra type, an average of 1.7 hits were deemed necessary.

The vehicle carries 300 rounds, and the ammunition is stowed as follows: 176 rounds in clips inside the turret, 72 rounds in clips in the hull front, and 52 separate (unclipped) rounds in special compartments under the turret floor. Armour-piercing rounds in clips are placed in the rear part of the turret to the left and right of the guns. Empty shell cases and clips are removed via a conveyor belt through a special port in the turret rear into an external metal wire basket on the back of the turret.

Armour protection
The ZSU-57-2's armour is welded rolled steel sufficient to protect the vehicle from 7.62mm armour-piercing bullets at 250 meters.

Armour thickness is as follows:
 * Hull front: (upper) – 13.5 mm; (lower) – 15 mm; at 60 degrees upper
 * Hull sides: (upper) – 15 mm; (lower) – 13.5 mm
 * Hull rear: 8 – 10.6 mm at 45 degrees
 * Hull roof: 15 mm
 * Hull bottom: 13.5 mm
 * Turret sides: 13.5 mm
 * Gun mantlet: 15 mm
 * Turret roof: open

Maneuverability
The ZSU-57-2 has a maximum road speed of 50 kilometres per hour(31 miles per hour), which is reduced to around 30 km/h off-road(19 mph). The vehicle has better acceleration compared with the T-54 because of its better power-to-weight ratio (18.6 hp per tonne). It has an operational range of 420 km(261 miles) on roads and 320 km(199 miles) across country. The vehicle can cross 0.8 m high vertical obstacles, 2.7 m wide trenches, ford 1.4 m deep water obstacles and climb 30° gradients.

The ZSU-57-2 uses the same engine as the T-54. It is a water-cooled V-54 4-stroke diesel V12 engine with a displacement of 38.88 litres, which develops 520 hp (388 kW) at 2,000 rpm. The engine itself weighs 895 kg. Fuel capacity is 830 litres carried in three fuel tanks inside the hull (640 L total) and two external fuel tanks on the right fender each of 95 L; fuel capacity was increased in comparison with the T-54. External rear-mounted supplemental fuel tanks can increase the road range to 595 km (370 miles).

The mechanical transmission in the rear part of the hull consists of a change gear quadrant, a primary multiplate clutch unit with metallic friction pads, a manual gearbox with five forward gears, two multiplate planetary steering clutches with band brakes and two in-line final drive groups.

The chassis has four twin rubber-tyred road wheels with individual torsion bar suspension, a rear drive sprocket with detachable sprocket rings (lantern-wheel gear) and an idler wheel on each side. The first and last road wheels each have a hydraulic rotary shock absorber. The track is 12.33 m long, 580 mm wide and has 90 links; despite having four road wheels instead of five the ground contact area of the track is the same as the T-54 (3.84 m). Track center distance is 2.64 m The vehicle has a ground pressure of 0.63 kg/cm2.

Other equipment
The ZSU-57-2's electrical power unit partially differs from the T-54, in that it consists of a more powerful G-74 direct current generator which develops 3 kW (108 A at 27–29 V) at 2100 rpm and six 24 volt 6-STEN-140M or 6-MST-140 accumulator batteries (total battery capacity is 420 A-h), the batteries are used for starting the engine and an electrical power supply when the generator is shut down.

The ZSU-57-2 is equipped with an automatic anti-aircraft sight of the plotter type with two collimators which can supervise a target with a speed of up to 350 m/s, a dive angle of between 0° and 90° and a slant range of up to 5,500 m; a simple mechanical sight is provided in case of failure. There is also an optical sight for direct fire at ground targets.

The 10RT-26E portable radio transceiver is located on the right hand side of the turret interior. It has a range of 9-20 km(5-12 miles) when the vehicle is stationary, and from 7-15 km(4-9 miles) when the vehicle is on the move. It was later replaced by R-113 or R-113 radio transceivers. The TPU-4-47 intercom system was later replaced by R-120 or R-124 intercom systems.

Small arms for the crew members include two AK-47 assault rifles and a 26 mm signalling pistol.

Weaknesses
The main weakness of the ZSU-57-2 was the lack of a search or fire-control radar; the vehicle was equipped with an optical mechanical computing (analog) reflex sight as the sole fire control system, so it could engage visible targets only. Night firing was also impractical. Also, the manual gunlaying and manual clip loading was not good enough, the rate of fire is not high enough, particularly considering that air-cooled barrels require quite long pauses for cooling at high rates of fire and the turret traverse is not fast enough to effectively intercept high-speed attack jet aircraft at low altitudes. The vehicle cannot perform aimed fire on the move.

Although the ZSU-57-2 had the highest firepower among production SPAAGs of its time, the anti-aircraft fire efficiency of a battery of four vehicles was even lower than that of a battery of six towed 57 mm S-60 anti-aircraft guns controlled by the PUAZO-6 anti-aircraft artillery director with the SON-9 fire control radar or later by the RPK-1 Vaza radar. It became obvious that the hit probability on a jet aircraft of the era was very low using only determination of target speed by aircraft type and determination of distance to the target by eye or by rangefinder; the ZSU-57-2 was designed to defend tank units against NATO attack aircraft flying at subsonic speeds, but it entered service ten years too late. Aircraft technology had improved to the point that a SPAAG required a much higher rate of fire, turret traverse speeds of 50–100° per second and a fully automatic radar-controlled fire control system. Works No. 174 started a modernization programme for the ZSU-57-2 in parallel with the beginning of its serial production in 1957, but this programme was rejected due to the development of new radar-guided SPAAGs armed with small-bore autocannons and another tracked chassis.

The ZSU-57-2 still retained some of the features of its predecessor, the ZSU-37. One of them was the lack of an armoured roof on the turret. The advantages of an open turret for SPAAGs, such as very high elevation angle for AA autocannons, excellent visibility of the combat situation by the gunners and no need for induced ventilation of the fighting compartment during intense fire were significantly over-shadowed by the disadvantages. The open turret of the ZSU-57-2 made it vulnerable from above, and prevented operations under NBC conditions. This flaw was partially nullified in the modified Bosnian Serb ZSU-57-2s, which had improvised overhead armour protection.

Nevertheless, its Western counterparts that were operationally available in the 1950s, such as the US M19 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage (based on the M24 Chaffee light tank) and the M42 Duster SPAAGs (both armed with the famous 40 mm Bofors M2A1 twin AA gun), had similar problems and were armed with less powerful weapons. The M42 Duster was tested with a T50 radar system in 1956 though it was a failure (production of the ZSU-57-2 had not started at this point).

The Soviet Union would launch a program to replace the ZSU-57. The ZSU-37-2 and -23-4 were the products of the attempt, and the ZSU-23-4 Shilka would see widespread service in various countries.

Production history
Although the vehicle entered service in 1955 and in the same year the No. 174 Works located in Omsk began producing the hulls and turrets, the first vehicles were completed in 1957 after the first 249 57 mm twin S-68 guns were produced by the Artillery Works No. 946 located in Krasnoyarsk. A total of 5,300 of these weapons were produced by the end of the 1950s. The hulls and turrets were produced by No. 174 Works where the final assembly also took place while the Krasnoyarsk Works, belonging to the Ministry of Heavy Engineering, participated in some production stages. The ZSU-57-2 remained in production until 1960 when the No. 174 Works stopped producing the hulls and turrets for ZSU-57-2. More than 2,023 ZSU-57-2s were produced in Soviet Union.

250 ZSU-57-2 SPAAGs based on the Chinese Type 59 (a copy of the Soviet T-54A) tank chassis were produced under license in North Korea. The turrets were bought from the USSR and delivered between 1968 and 1977. Since the production of the ZSU-57-2 turrets ended in 1960 the turrets that North Korea bought must have come from decommissioned Soviet ZSU-57-2s. The turrets were ordered in 1967.

Former USSR
The ZSU-57-2 officially entered service with the Soviet Army in 1955. The first vehicles began replacing BTR-40A's and BTR-152A's in the anti-aircraft batteries of tank regiments in 1957. It was first shown publicly during the military parade in Moscow on 7 November 1958.

Initially, tank regiments had a single battery equipped with four SPAAGs, later increased to two batteries, each equipped with four SPAAGs. The vehicle was also used by some motor rifle regiments (which in the 1960s had one battery equipped with four SPAAGs or, more likely, with six 23 mm ZU-23 towed twin AA guns). The anti-aircraft performance of the ZSU-57-2, however, was quickly found to be unsatisfactory and, because of rapid air force development, the vehicle was deemed obsolete by the early 1960s.

ZSU-57-2s were gradually replaced by radar-guided ZSU-23-4 Shilkas from the beginning of 1965. Towards the end of the 1960s, a frequent configuration was one battery of an AA battalion in a tank regiment equipped with ZSU-23-4s and another battery equipped with ZSU-57-2s. Unpopular in the Soviet Army, the ZSU-57-2 was completely replaced by ZSU-23-4s by the early 1970s.

Most ZSU-57-2s were put into reserve storage while a few remained in service in tank training centres (as vehicles for driver training), until the end of the 1970s. Some were converted by army workshops into bulldozers. The last ZSU-57-2s were scrapped in the 1980s, while some dismantled vehicles were used as gunnery range targets. One is preserved in the Kubinka Tank Museum.

Foreign service
ZSU-57-2s were exported like other Soviet equipment. Five other Warsaw Pact members—Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania—used it, as well as Cuba, Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Syria. North Vietnam and North Korea may have received theirs without payment.

East Germany
The first foreign operator of the ZSU-57-2 was East Germany as it received its first vehicles in September 1957. From 1957 to 1961 the National People's Army received 129 vehicles, eventually replacing them with ZSU-23-4s between 1967 and 1974. The ZSU-57-2 was completely gone from East German service by 1979. Some of the vehicles were converted into FAB 500U training vehicles for T-54 drivers and were passed on to the unified German state.

Poland
Poland received its 129 ZSU-57-2s between 1957 and 1961. They were also offered a production license for twin S-68 AA autocannons, but declined it. Eventually, Poland replaced all its ZSU-57-2s with ZSU-23-4s. Seven Polish ZSU-57-2s are preserved, one at the Lubuskie Military Museum in Drzonów, one in Wicko Morskie, the largest anti-aircraft artillery firing range in Poland, one at the Land Forces Museum in Warsaw, one at the History and Tradition of Suvalkai Soldiers Museum in Suwalszczyzna, one in Koszalin and two at the Polish Army Museum in Warsaw.

Other Warsaw Pact countries
Three other Warsaw Pact members, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania, received ZSU-57-2s once the ZSU-23-4 was introduced in the Soviet Army. Czechoslovakia imported one ZSU-57-2 for testing but it was rejected when it was realised that the domestically produced M53/59 Praga was comparable to the ZSU-57-2.

Former Yugoslavia
The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia ordered 100 ZSU-57-2s in 1963. Deliveries were completed between 1963 and 1964. They were passed on to the successor states during the 1992 breakup of the federal state. They were then used by the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. There were 54 of those vehicles in service as of 1999, but this number decreased to 36 in the subsequent decade; they were withdrawn from active service by 2003. A number of ZSU-57-2 remained in Serbia national inventories until 2008. Two vehicles captured by Croatian forces during the Croatian War of Independence and were later also scrapped.

Slovenia
The air defence battery of the 44th "Wolves" armoured-mechanized battalion stationed in Pivka, belonging to the 4th Regional Command Postojna operated ZSU-57-2s. All vehicles were retired from service in late 90s.

Finland
Finland imported 12 ZSU-57-2 SPAAGs between 1960 and 1961 alongside other kinds of Soviet equipment. The ZSU-57-2s were designated 57 ItPsv SU 57-2, some of them remained in service to the end of the century. A ZSU-57-2M modernization programme was being developed in Finland which would equip the vehicle with radar and configurable ammunition. However, after the prototype was produced the project was abandoned because of high costs. ItPsv SU-57s were withdrawn from service in 2006.

People's Republic of China
The People's Republic of China was approached by Iraq in the early 1980s to develop a copy of the ZSU-57-2 system and a few examples were delivered to the PRC for reverse-engineering. To meet Iraq's production order, NORINCO attempted to manufacture a copy with the improved amphibious chassis of the Type 69-II tank. Several Type 80 SPAAGs were tested and accepted into service by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) in small numbers. It was originally intended for the export market but didn't sell well. Greater success was achieved by Chinese-made proximity fuses which could be used to modernize the S-60 and S-68 ammunition.

Middle East
Iraq ordered 100 ZSU-57-2s in 1970 from Soviet Union, which were delivered between 1971 and 1973. The New Iraqi Army does not use these vehicles.

Iran ordered 100 ZSU-57-2s in 1966 from Soviet Union and they were delivered between 1967 and 1968. Around 90 remained in service until 2002.

Egypt ordered 100 ZSU-57-2s in 1960 from Soviet Union and they were delivered between 1961 and 1962. ZSU-57-2s were not very successful during either the Six-Day War in 1967 or the Yom Kippur War in 1973. Despite that, the Egyptian Army operated 40 ZSU-57-2s as of 2003 and equipped them with radars. Egypt also bought Chinese-made proximity fuzes for its S-60 and S-68 ammunition.

The Israelis captured a number of ZSU-57-2s from the Egyptians or Syrians. One resides at the Yad La-Shiryon armor museum in Latrun, West Bank, another at the Israel Defense Forces History Museum in Tel Aviv, and the third (captured in 1973) at the Israeli Air Force Museum in Hatzerim.

Cuba
Cuba received 25 ZSU-57-2s alongside other heavy equipment from Soviet forces stationed on the island in 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. They remain in service.

Combat use
While primarily an anti-aircraft weapon the ZSU-57-2 was also used in the role of ground support vehicle.

Vietnam War
The ZSU-57-2 first saw major use in the Vietnam War by the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN), in the beginning of the Easter Offensive in 1972. It also saw action during the Ho Chi Minh Campaign in 1975. Several batteries of ZSU-57-2s were used for the air defence of the 201st and 202nd tank regiments during the Easter Offensive. ZSU-57-2s were used by the PAVN against US aircraft, but it proved to be more effective against ground targets. South Vietnam also used captured ZSU-57-2s. About 500 ZSU-57-2s survived the war. 200 are still in service.

Middle East
ZSU-57-2s were used during several conflicts in the Middle East including the Six-Day War in 1967 and the Yom Kippur War in 1973, in both cases by Egypt and Syria. A battery of Egyptian ZSU-57-2s together with T-34s defended El-Arish airstrip. These were defeated by a company of Israeli M48 Patton MBTs belonging to the 7th Armored Brigade during an intense action on 6 June 1967. ZSU-57-2s were not generally successful and a number fell into Israeli hands. In 1976, during its intervention in Lebanon, Syria used ZSU-57-2s against the leftist militias. During the 1982 Lebanon War, they unsuccessfully engaged Israeli air force aircraft over the Beqaa Valley. However, the vehicles fared better when used against land targets.

During the Iran–Iraq War, ZSU-57-2s were used by both Iraq and Iran. Iraq also used Chinese Type 80s during this conflict and the First Persian Gulf War. Iraqi ZSU-57-2s, which could receive information from the radar on ZSU-23-4s or 9K31 Strela-1 (SA-9 Gaskin)/9K35 Strela-10 (SA-13 Gopher) surface-to-air missile systems were employed against Iranian AH-1J SeaCobra attack helicopters.

When the Syrian Civil War started, only 10 (out of 250) ZSU-57-2 were in active duty in the Syrian Army. During the war this vehicle was rarely seen and not documented in use. However, there is at least one piece of footage (which has since been removed by YouTube) showing that this vehicle was used by the Syrian Army in the Spring of 2014, in the fights at Harasta, Rif Dimashq Governorate. The purpose of these vehicles probably has changed to ground support only.

Yugoslavia
ZSU-57-2s saw service during the Yugoslav Wars, usually in light batteries used by Serbs and Montenegrins of the JNA for attacking ground targets. They were used during the war of independence when Croatian forces captured two ZSU-57-2s from the JNA. They were also used in the air defence role in 1999 during the NATO air raids against Yugoslavia when the Yugoslavs operated 54 of these vehicles.

Combat history

 * 1959–75 Vietnam War (North Vietnam)
 * 1967 Six-Day War (Egypt)
 * 1973 Yom Kippur War (Egypt and Syria)
 * 1975–2002 Angolan Civil War
 * 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War (Vietnam)
 * 1980–1988 Iran–Iraq War (Iran and Iraq)
 * 1982 Lebanon War (Syria)
 * 1990–91 First Persian Gulf War (Iraq)
 * 1991–2001 Yugoslav wars
 * 1991 Ten-Day War
 * 1991–95 Croatian War of Independence
 * 1992–95 Bosnian War
 * 1995–96 NATO bombing of Republika Srpska
 * 1996–99 Kosovo War
 * 1999 NATO bombing of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
 * 2003 – Second Persian Gulf War
 * 2003 Invasion of Iraq
 * 2011 Syrian Civil War

Former USSR

 * ZSU-57-2 prototype was based on a modified T-54 tank chassis equipped with experimental tracks. Unlike the production ZSU-57-2, the prototype weighted 26.172 tonnes, carried only 252 rounds: 172 rounds in clips inside the turret and 80 separate rounds in the nose part of the hull in a special ammunition stowage, had thinner armour (8–10 mm) and antennae mounted at the rear of the turret upper right side instead of in the middle. The first vehicle was built in June 1950, the second in December 1950.
 * ZSU-57-2 improved prototype with an increased ammunition load of 300 rounds. Six were built between 1951 and 1953 for service tests.
 * ZSU-57-2 – SPAAG mass-produced between 1957 and 1960.
 * ZSU-57-2 armed with modernised twin S-68A autocannon. Like the original ZSU-57-2, it officially entered service with the Soviet Army in 1955.
 * ZSU-57-2 converted into a bulldozer. After ZSU-57-2 SPAAGs were removed from AA units at the beginning of the 1970s, army workshops converted a number into bulldozers. The turret was replaced by a steel closed superstructure. The vehicle was equipped with the BTS-55 bulldozer blade.

People's Republic of China

 * Type 80 (WZ305) – Chinese SPAAG. It has the same turret as the ZSU-57-2, but it is armed with the Type 59 twin anti-aircraft autocannon (a copy of the Soviet S-68), mounted on the chassis of a Chinese Type 69-II MBT. It is heavier than the ZSU-57-2 at 30 tonnes.

Cuba

 * ZSU-57-2 with hanging flap type fronts to its track guards. Used by Cuba.

Egypt

 * ZSU-57-2 modernization equipped with a radar.

Finland

 * ItPsv SU-57 – Finnish designation for ZSU-57-2.
 * ItPsv SU-57 with a machine gun mounted on the front of the turret.
 * ZSU-57-2M – Finnish ZSU-57-2 modernization which equips the vehicle with radar and configurable ammunition. Only one prototype was produced and the project was abandoned because of high costs.

East Germany

 * FAB 500U ("FAB" stands for Fahrausbildungspanzer) – ZSU-57-2 converted into a training vehicle for T-54 drivers.

Iran

 * Bahman – Iranian truck-based SPAAG. Uses a modified version of the ZSU-57-2 turret with side armor removed and with upgraded gun.

North Korea

 * Variant designation unknown; ZSU-57-2 turret mounted on the Chinese Type 59 (a copy of the T-54A) tank chassis, visually resembling the Type 80 mentioned above. Produced and operated by North Korea.

Republika Srpska

 * ZSU-57-2 fitted with improvised overhead armour to protect the gun compartment from attacks from above, as well as rain and snow. It also has an ammunition crate fitted to the glacis plate which serves as additional passive armour. Used mainly as a self-propelled gun.

Current operators

 * 🇨🇺 Cuba – Received 25 ZSU-57-2s stationed on the island ordered in 1963 from Soviet Union (the vehicles were previously up to few years in Soviet service). Unknown amount still in service as of 2023.
 * 🇪🇬 Egypt – 100 ordered in 1960 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1961 and 1962. 40 remain in service as of 2023.
 * Hezbollah – Some provided by the Syrian Army and employed in the ongoing Syrian Civil War.
 * 🇮🇷 – Received 100 former Soviet ZSU-57-2 between 1967 and 1968. 80 in service as of 2023.
 * - Captured from the former Iraqi Army.
 * 🇲🇿 Mozambique - 20 ordered in 1982 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1983 and 1984 (the vehicles were previously in Soviet service). They all remain in service as of 2023.
 * 🇸🇾 Syrian Arab Republic - 250 ordered in 1966 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1967 and 1973. 10 in service as of 2011. Unknown amount still in service as of 2023.

Former operators

 * – 40 ordered in 1975 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1975 and 1976 (the vehicles were previously in Soviet service). Operated at least until 2008.
 * 🇧🇬 – 100 former Soviet vehicles received between 1965 and 1966. Withdrawn from service.
 * 🇧🇦 – 6 ZSU-57-2 in 2011.
 * 🇨🇳 – Received a few from Iraq for reverse-engineering. Operated Type 80 SPAAGs at least until 2011.
 * 🇪🇹 Ethiopia – 10 former Soviet vehicles delivered in 1978. Unknown number in service prior to the end of the Ethiopian Civil War and Eritrean War of Independence.
 * 🇫🇮 – 12 ordered from Soviet Union in 1960 and delivered between 1960 and 1961. withdrawn from service in 2006.
 * – 129 ordered in 1957 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1957 and 1961. Replaced by ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" SPAAGs between 1967 and 1974. It was completely removed from East German service in 1979. Some were converted into the FAB 500U driver training vehicle. They were passed on to the unified German state.
 * 🇩🇪 – FAB 500U taken from East Germany's Army. All were sold to other countries or scrapped.
 * 🇭🇺 - 24 1964–1970 Service, 1964 Vác City all 24 vehicles, and 1967-4 (6x4=24) vehicles in Tank Brigades (the vehicles were previously in Soviet service).
 * 🇮🇶 Iraq – 100 ZSU-57-2s ordered in 1970 from Soviet Union and they were delivered between 1971 and 1973 (the vehicles were previously up to few years in Soviet service). A few were given to the PRC for reverse-engineering. Iraq also operated a number of Chinese built Type 80s. All ZSU-57-2s and Type 80s were destroyed or scrapped prior to 2003.
 * – 250 ZSU-57-2 turrets ordered in 1967 and delivered between 1968 and 1977 (the turrets were previously mounted on Soviet ZSU-57-2s). They were fitted in North Korea onto Type 59 hulls. Remained in service until 1991.
 * 🇵🇱 – 129 ZSU-57-2s ordered in 1957 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1957 and 1961. Replaced by the ZSU-23-4 "Sziłka".
 * Republika Srpska – 25 in 2002
 * – 60 ordered in 1965 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1965 and 1966 (the vehicles were previously in Soviet service). Phased out in the 1990s and replaced with Gepard SPAAGs.
 * 🇷🇺 - According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, the ZSU-57-2 remained in Russian inventories as far as 2004.
 * 🇷🇸 - Listed in the national inventory by the IISS until 2008.
 * – Slovenia operated 12 ZSU-57-2 from 1991 until they were retired in early 2000s. Some were donated to museum's, but few may remain in storage. -
 * – Replaced with the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" at the beginning of the 1970s; training units used the ZSU-57-2 at least until the end of the 1970s.
 * North Vietnam – 500 including 100 ordered in 1971 from Soviet Union and delivered between 1971 and 1972 (the vehicles were previously in Soviet service). Passed on to the successor state.
 * South Vietnam – A number captured from the VPA.
 * – At peak there were 500 ZSU-57-2s in service with the Vietnamese army. Withdrawn from service.
 * – 100 delivered between 1963 and 1964.

Evaluation-only operators

 * – Imported one ZSU-57-2 for testing but did not adopt it.

Captured operators

 * 🇭🇷 Croatia - Captured several units during the Yugoslav wars and operated them during the rest of the wars.
 * – Captured a number of ZSU-57-2 SPAAGs from the Egyptians or the Syrians during the Six-Day War and operated them during the rest of the war.

title: ZSU-57-2


text:
Talk:Fee simple

Allodial in the US
In England and Wales (which is, after all, where the expression came from) all land in fee simple has a lord and is therefore not allodial. The article is therefore inaccurate to this extent. Can a US lawyer (or other common lawyer) tell me if allodial is used as a synonym for fee simple over there?

Also, an estate in fee simple might be subject to a rentcharge, which would contradict the article as well.

Francis Davey 15:16, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * This is my understanding as well. I have removed "allodial" to a see-also.  There generally is no allodial land in common-law jurisdictions of the USA, although some nuthatches make a great deal out of it.  --- Smerdis of Tlön 15:59, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've removed a reference to allodial title (which isn't the same thing in England and Wales) and made it clear that ordinarily fee simple is the most absolute ownership of land one can have. Arguably the most absolute ownership would be to hold land in demesne without an estate, but (in England and Wales at least) only the Crown can do that. Even then the Crown often holds land in fee.

Francis Davey 14:51, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Birmingham was the birthplace of the freehold land and building societies
I've been redirected here from Freehold and was wondering if anyone knew anything about the following, from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica []: 'As regards the condition of the working classes it may be noted that Birmingham was the birthplace of the freehold land and building societies, by which workmen are enabled on easy terms to acquire houses of their own.'

Ta in advance. Matthew 18:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Presumably an early term for Building Society. At the time a lot of people would have been copyholders I guess and that might be the reason for the emphasis, but I don't know. Francis Davey 09:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Not understandable to the common person
Wikipedia pages are supposed to be understandable to the common person. This page is not and should be cleaned up.

 * * *  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.240.153 (talk) 02:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead has a circular argument
"A fee simple (or fee simple absolute) is an estate in land, a form of freehold ownership." but Freehold is defined as "Freehold may refer to: * Fee simple: ..." Either the definition of freehold needs to be fixed or the first sentence of this article needs to be restructured so it does not use Freehold. -- PBS (talk) 11:46, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikpedia legal articles are of very little use
The concept of a pan-jurisdictional resource is flawed. In attempting to discuss legal concepts that cover several jurisdictions, the result is unreliability and low confidence in the articles available. This problem is made worse by authors often not bothering to specify which jurisdiction they are discussing. At best, Wikipedia law articles cannot be used with confidence, but more commonly, they are innaccurate and too generalized. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.177.101 (talk) 15:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Reading Wikipedia is not a substitute for consulting a lawyer when you have real legal problems. H Padleckas (talk) 03:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I don't think anyone is suggesting it is or should be, but we should surely be striving for the level of accuracy one sees in an encyclopaedia or even a text book. Francis Davey (talk) 08:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The "simple" in "fee simple"
The qualifier "simple" in "fee simple" distinguishes a fee simple from a fee tail and means that there is no restriction on the inheritance. A fee simple estate passes to the heirs until there are no heirs so could have an infinite life. A fee tail can be restricted, eg to male heirs.

Some editors have added some additional qualifiers to the etymology section which are simply not correct. A fee simple estate might have had - when such things existed at all - considerable feudal obligations. That's what the "fee" means. Any land held in fee would have had some feudal obligation associated with it, in later time in England and Wales all fees came to be held under common socage (though some grand serjeanties remained) and ultimately the socage payment was abolished although technically the tenure is still there. Until 1925 all fee simple estates were held feudally, so it is simply wrong and confused to imply that the "simple" somehow implied a freedom from obligation. In England and Wales after 1926 some other non feudal estates, such as copyholds, became fee simples, but that has nothing to do with the etymology.

The "simple" doesn't really imply that there were no restrictions on transfer either and I propose removing that as well. Before Quia Emptores transfer was impossible for any estate in fee. Francis Davey (talk) 21:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

"introduction" of feudalism by Normans into England
This is debated. Certainly the terminology changed from Anglo-Saxon/Danish law to Norman French and Latin. But MANY forms of feudal hierarchy and obligations, such as 'castles', 'knights', and land tenure had already existed in Anglo-Saxon England. cf. Campbell, James, ed. the Anglo-Saxons, pp.169,236-237. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.185.254.17 (talk) 04:06, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Comment
So I take it then, no man owns the land he works himself to the bone to posess in order to live a happy and fulfilling life. That the man, through the legal fiction "person" (created by the state and controlling interest withheld by the state, the beneficiary interest in the form of the birth certificate [check out trust law, law merchant under the common law]) only holds a beneficiary interest in the land, and the crown (another legal fiction - a corporation) holds allodial title - real ownership of all land, and controlling interest in the land. ie: crown land.

So who is the crown? The queen? Or is it the international banker cabal? Is this not fascism? Freedom begins with truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.221.193 (talk) 10:26, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Article slightly too UK and US-centric
There should be an addition on how the law works in the modern day and how it has changed over time in Australia, New Zealand and other common law countries. 68.46.42.9 (talk) 09:05, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fee simple