text:
Talk:Muhammad Ali vs. Sonny Liston

Untitled
I'd appreciate it if you could get some pictures of Muhammed Ali's daughter as a boxer. Thank you!

What does that have to do with Ali-Liston?

Attendance Numbers
In the Ali vs Liston article it states that the number in attendance was 2,434 but in the Liston page it states something different. Which one is correct?

I dont remember the exact number but that seems about right. It was the lowest attendance for any Heavyweight championship fight... because it was held in an auditorium

Ali-Liston I
"this view is unproven, as the fight was tied on the judges' scorecards after six rounds"

I removed this part. Fighters have no idea what the scoring is in a fight, and it was clear to everyone at that point that Liston was losing and was headed towards a defeat.

--- I fail to see what is less than neutral about this rather good article. The fights in question were extremely controversial; in fact they remain two of the most debated fights in ring history. The article is a good summary and avoids taking a firm position one way or the other. I think the bulk of opinion these days is that Liston threw both fights, but that is by no means a universal opinion. Whether he could have won if he wanted to, and why he threw the fights is a whole different debate. Was he just intimidated by Clay/Ali's bluster? By Muslims? By the mob? Also note; Liston had never lost, never so much as been off his feet in the ring, he had latley knocked out 25 fighters including world champion Floyd Paterson. After the Clay/Ali losses he went on to knock out nine more in a row and thirteen out of the next fifteen, including Chuck Wepner who Ali could not knock out. Liston may, in fact, have been the best fighter Clay/Ali ever faced. Clay/Ali was good, but that that good? A first round knock out? Welllll .. maybe .... Nothing totally makes sense in these two fights. However you look at it, something was wrong.

Taunts?
The photo is captioned "Ali taunts a canvas ridden Liston" but nothing in the article says anything about any taunting. Was this the fight were Ali was standing over his opponent saying "What's my name? What's my name?" Hi There 01:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

He wasn't taunting Liston he was telling him to get up and fight. It was the Ernie Terrell fight that Ali kept asking "whats my name".

Fair use rationale for Image:Aliliston1program.jpeg
Image:Aliliston1program.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 18:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Phantom Punch
It could be pointed out as well, most pro-phantom fans may have only seen Ali's left hand, missing a falling Liston (along with not seeing the connecting right hand). GoodDay 20:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The claim quoted in Felix's book about the punch lifting Liston's foot off the ground is just not true. It's clear in this video that Liston's left foot is already off the ground, in mid-step toward Ali, before the punch lands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.38.208.53 (talk) 17:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I've Got A Secret
Why so much about a tv-series in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.93.4.56 (talk) 01:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The fight was highlighted in Episode 409 of the TV series [Mad Men]. In reply to the comment above, the fight has a level of social/cultural significance that references to the fight in books, movies, TV, etc. would seem to be appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.68.30 (talk) 14:15, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The problem is Mad Men is of no comparable significance and any attempt made to cover all the places this event is mentioned in books, TV, ect it would be hundreds of pages long. It's one of the most important sporting events of the 20th century. Mad Men is just another TV show, and I agree there's too much about I've got a Secret here. Jackhammer111 (talk) 04:51, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Weights of the fighters
Can any one provide the weights of the fighters at the time of these fights please?Andrew144 (talk) 16:30, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Introduction
Could someone provide a more complete introduction at the top of the page? For someone who is unfamiliar with boxing it says almost nothing, and one shouldn't have to read the entire article just to get a general understanding of what this is all about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.237.24 (talk) 06:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Paul Gallender
Removed the entries by Paul Gallender as they are a clear conflict of interest. 98.209.42.117 (talk) 03:19, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

This is one of the most un-wikilike pages I've ever read. Glaringly, the overuse of Gallender was obvious to me long before I read "Author Paul Gallender claims that members of the Nation of Islam kidnapped Liston's wife, Geraldine, and Liston's son, Bobby. Liston was told to lose the fight to Ali or he would never see his family again." Who gives a crap what Gallender claims if there not supporting evidence that the claim has the slightest relation with reality? It's really an outrage that experienced wiki editors should be embarrassed by. What I quoted should remove all his credibility as a source. I agree that all of Gallender's entries should be removed. It appears someone undid the removals without comment. The page is way to long as it is. This would be a good start on parring it down. Jackhammer111 (talk) 04:37, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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More References
https://www.nytimes.com/books/98/10/25/specials/ali-upset.html Soham321 (talk) 06:32, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Scorecards?
Okay, this is happening repeatedly - folks keep adding the following:

At that point the bout was equal on the official scorecards of the referee and two judges.

I went through that source, and it doesn't appear to support the claim; I've been removing this claim (with information in the comments section) but don't want to get dinged for 3RR. I could be misinterpreting, so I'd love another opinion. Anyone? NekoKatsun (talk) 20:07, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Use of the phrase "phantom punch" and uncited quotes
I have tagged this as needing citations for the uncited quotes allegedly from Jose Torres and Jim Murray (sportswriter).

I arrived at this article after seeing on UK TV (Sky Sports) an advertisement using images of Clay's fight with the narrator stating "...it became known as 'The Phantom Punch'." This perplexed me greatly as we knew it as something entirely different in England. The fight was screened live by satellite on BBC TV in the middle of the night.

These weasel words 'it became known as' suggest the advertising agency used Wikipedia content during research, and that the phrase was later than the events.

The actual phrase was introduced into what was a totally unreferenced Wikipedia article by an American IP address, September 27 2005, changing from "the ghost punch fight" in this diff.

Is there any historical, hard-published evidence that this phrase involving the word 'phantom' actually existed contemporaneous with the event? I have checked a few period refs, some were deadlinked with only one - Sports Illustrated - at Wayback machine so far. I need much more time which will not be for some months yet. I will also have to try to find scans of UK newspapers showing the phrase I recall the UK press using.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

A fantastically good article
Holy Cow, this is good article. My sincere congrats to the editors.

Also I can't believe that this article is rated C-Class. WTF.

Anyway, thanks for a great read!

Nemonoman (talk) 01:48, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

PS. Yes, I know it could use some more inline citations -- but it is a fantastic read.

title: Talk:Muhammad Ali vs. Sonny Liston


text: User talk:200.31.26.19

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:200.31.26.19


text:
Business Post

The Business Post (formerly The Sunday Business Post) is a Sunday newspaper distributed nationally in Ireland and an online publication. It is focused mainly on business and financial issues in Ireland.

Founding to Irish financial crisis
The Sunday Business Post was co-founded by four people: the economist and editor Damien Kiberd, Aileen O'Toole (former editor of Business & Finance), Frank Fitzgibbon (editor of The Sunday Times Ireland) and James Morrissey (spokesperson for Denis O'Brien).

The SBP was previously owned by Thomas Crosbie Holdings (TCH). It was then owned by Key Capital, Paul Cooke and staff members (6% equity for staff). It was then owned by Sunrise Media, the shareholders of which include Key Capital. It is now owned by Kilcullen Capital Partners.

The paper's first edition appeared on 26 November 1989. While TCH's other major newspaper titles, the Irish Examiner and Evening Echo, are based in Cork, the Post is published in Dublin. The paper describes itself as "Ireland's Political, Economic and Financial Newspaper". It is a general newspaper with a strong emphasis on commerce, politics and financial markets. The newspaper does not have a sports section or letters section. Three supplements are published weekly with the newspaper: Post Plus, The Magazine, an entertainment and features magazine; and a property supplement. A once-monthly Computers in Business magazine is also included.

Ted Harding succeeded Kiberd as editor of the paper in 2001 and edited the paper for three years, resigning in October 2004.

Examinership (2013)
An interim examiner was formally appointed to Post Publications Ltd, publisher of The Sunday Business Post newspaper, on 15 March 2013. The High Court was told that there might be a voluntary redundancy scheme at the newspaper in late 2013 which would target 25 staff positions. This could coincide with pay cuts of 7% for employees and further possible changes as part of a financial restructuring plan for the company, the court was told.

It was reported on 28 April 2013 that two companies were interested in acquiring the SBP from the examiner. Landmark Media Investments, which acquired some of the assets of Thomas Crosbie Holdings, was no longer interested in the title. It was also reported that the SBP required an investment of at least €2m to acquire the paper and restructure it. Any new bidder would have to fund the cost of laying off some staff.

On 8 May 2013, it was reported that The Sunday Business Post had started staff redundancies. Up to ten staff were to leave the company by 10 May 2013. Staff were also told about a third pay cut. Post Publications was also looking to reduce the amount paid to its landlord by €1 million per year.

It was reported on 12 May 2013 that bidders for The Sunday Business Post included Michael Brophy, a former chief executive of Independent News & Media (Northern Ireland).

On 15 May 2013, Post Publications was back in court. It reported that the examiner had failed to find a buyer in the first 70 days of the examinership. The examiner was given a final 30-day extension to find a buyer. If a buyer did not materialise, the examiner had to advise the court immediately. Annual revenue fell from €15.3 million to €7.3 million in the five years to 2013. Circulation revenue fell from €4.9 million to €3.6 million in the last 5 years to 2013. The newspaper had 76 full-time employees and 123 freelance contributors and made a loss of €1.2 million in the year to 2013.

Paul Cooke and Key Capital Ownership (2013–2018)
On 8 June 2013, it emerged that Key Capital, Paul Cooke and staff (6% equity for staff) had acquired The Sunday Business Post.

Examinership ended on 19 June 2013. The new owners of the SBP, Brindisi Ltd, took out a €350,000 loan to part-fund the purchase. Several staff left the paper, including former chief executive Fiachra O'Riordan, former senior assistant editor Kieron Wood and former deputy chief sub-editor Garvan Grant.

In the trading year for 2014, Post Publications Limited made a pre-tax loss of €628,000. Post Publications Limited paid €409,374 for redundancy payments and a new premises. Shareholders had pumped an additional €300,000 into the company; staff numbers had reduced again. Post Publications employed an average of 61 people in the year to the end of June 2014. Both circulation and advertising revenue remain "under pressure", the directors noted.

In July 2014, Post Publications Ltd., the publisher of the paper, announced that Cliff Taylor would leave the paper after ten years as editor. Pat Leahy, the paper's deputy editor and political editor, was the paper's acting editor until Ian Kehoe was made editor.

On 13 July 2016, it was announced that Paul Cooke had sold his stake to Key Capital. Cooke also resigned as managing director. The SBP became legally owned by Sunrise Media, and the main shareholder in Sunrise Media is Conor Killeen's Key Capital.

Kilcullen Capital Ownership (2018 – present day)
In September 2017, it was reported that The Sunday Business Post was for sale. In September 2018, it was announced that Kilcullen Kapital Partners (KKP) had acquired the SBP under the ownership of Enda O'Coineen. KKP owned the SBP via a company called Encircle Business Post 365.

In October 2018, it was announced that a three-to-four-month consultation was occurring at The Sunday Business Post that might lead to the print closure. At a later stage, it was announced that the paper version of the paper would not close.

In March 2019, it was announced that Encircle Business Post 365, the company that owns the SBP, had acquired event management company iQuest from outgoing owner Michael Nolan.

In April 2019, it was announced that the CEO of the Post Publications was leaving the company and it was reported that the SBP owner might float it on a stock exchange.

In July 2019, it was reported that Beach Point Capital have provided backing to the owners of the Sunday Business Post. Beach Point Capital have a charge over certain assets. Beach Point Capital have also provided backing to Maximum Media and Irish Studio.

In July 2019, Richie Oakley was made the editor of the Sunday Business Post.

In September 2019, it was revealed that the previous owner, Sunrise Media, wrote off €1.1m it had invested in the newspaper following its sale to Kilcullen Kapital.

In September 2019, it was reported that big changes were to occur at the Sunday Business Post. It is to go daily, go global and change the name to the Business Post.

In October 2019, it was reported that the owner of the Sunday Business Post had closed a deal to buy a portfolio of magazine titles including Irish Tatler, Food & Wine and Auto Ireland, from US-Irish investors in an all-share transaction.

In November 2019, the Sunday Business Post was rebranded as the Business Post.

In April 2020, the Business Post cut staff salaries and availed of government support. Advertising had declined due to the Covid-19 situation.

In January 2023, Daniel McConnell (journalist) was made editor of the Business Post.

Circulation history
No ABC circulation statistics are available post June 2019 because the Business Post no longer publishes a certificate.

title: Business Post


text: User talk:24.13.12.128

title: User talk:24.13.12.128


text:
The Muppets at Walt Disney World

The Muppets at Walt Disney World is a television special starring Jim Henson's Muppets at Walt Disney World in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. The special aired on NBC as part of The Magical World of Disney on May 6, 1990, ten days prior to Henson's death. It was the last Muppet project completed by Henson.

Prelude
At the start of The Magical World of Disney, then-Disney CEO Michael Eisner talks about the special while having tea with Fozzie Bear and his mother Emily in the lobby of the Grand Floridian Beach Resort. After Fozzie accidentally gets butter on Eisner’s sleeve, Gonzo shows up with a group of Muppet monsters and Frackles to take care of the mess.

Plot
In this television special, the Muppets are visiting Kermit's family for their annual reunion where they meet up with Kermit's aunts and uncles. When the others learn that the swamp is right next to Walt Disney World, they sneak in, and are pursued by a security guard named Quentin Fitzwaller (played by Charles Grodin). Attractions and areas featured include Big Thunder Mountain, the Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular!, Star Tours, the Mad Tea Party, World Showcase, the Walt Disney World Monorail System and the utilidors. The special depicts the three parks (Magic Kingdom, Epcot and Disney-MGM Studios) as one connected area, despite the parks actually being apart from each other.

The story ends with the Muppets having a friendly meeting at Mickey Mouse's office where Mickey and Kermit compare their company's theme songs, "When You Wish Upon a Star" and "The Rainbow Connection" and the ideals behind them. After that, the Muppets return to the swamp, but find out about Miss Piggy remaining stuck in front of The Great Movie Ride with her feet in the cement. They return to Walt Disney World for her afterwards to free her. While stuck in the cement, Miss Piggy shouts for help as the credits roll.

Human cast

 * Charles Grodin as Quentin Fitzwaller
 * Raven-Symoné as Little Girl
 * Michael Eisner as Himself

Voice cast

 * Wayne Allwine as Mickey Mouse

Muppet performers

 * Jim Henson as Kermit the Frog, Rowlf the Dog, Dr. Teeth, Link Hogthrob, the Swedish Chef, Waldorf
 * Frank Oz as Miss Piggy, Fozzie Bear, Animal
 * Jerry Nelson as Robin the Frog, Camilla the Chicken, Floyd Pepper, Emily Bear, Frog #1
 * Richard Hunt as Scooter, Janice, Beaker, Statler, Frog #2
 * Dave Goelz as Gonzo the Great, Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, Beauregard, Zoot, Frog #3
 * Steve Whitmire as Rizzo the Rat, Bean Bunny, Lips, Frog #4
 * Kevin Clash as Clifford, Alligator, Frog #5
 * Camille Bonora as Frog #6, Additional Muppets
 * David Rudman as Frog #7, Additional Muppets
 * Additional Muppets performed by Rickey Boyd, Rick Lyon, Jim Martin and Joey Mazzarino

Other characters' appearances
During the song "Rockin' All Around the World" (in melody of Status Quo's "Rockin' All Over the World"), Muppets inspired by the Audio-Animatronic dolls from the "It's a Small World" attraction appear.

Costumed characters consisting of the dwarfs and Snow White from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937), Brer Bear from Song of the South (1946), Bongo and Lulubelle from Fun and Fancy Free (1947), and the Country Bear Jamboree attraction have cameos.

Songs

 * 1) "Knee Deep"
 * 2) "Rockin' All Around the World"
 * 3) "Who's Your Lady Friend?"
 * 4) "I'm Doggin' It"
 * 5) "Rainbow Connection"
 * 6) "Love in a Laundromat"
 * 7) "More, More, More"

Promotion
On May 4, 1990, Jim Henson appeared on The Arsenio Hall Show to promote the special with Kermit the Frog. Henson was joined by Kevin Clash, performing Clifford. It would be Henson's last live television appearance, and the last known time he performed Kermit the Frog.

Production notes
This was the last Muppet special Jim Henson worked on. It aired ten days prior to his death on May 16.

title: The Muppets at Walt Disney World


text: Template:Curling-stub

title: Template:Curling-stub


text:
Yanqi

Yanqi may refer to the following in China:

Xinjiang

 * Karasahr (焉耆), ancient kingdom
 * Yanqi Hui Autonomous County (焉耆回族自治县), in Bayin'gholin Mongol Autonomous Prefecture

Elsewhere

 * Yanqi, Beijing (雁栖), in Huairou District, Beijing

title: Yanqi


text:
Jan Krzysztof Tarnowski

Count Jan Krzysztof Tarnowski (1 January 1537 – 1 April 1567) was a Polish nobleman (szlachcic), Leliwa coat of arms. Son of Hetman Jan Tarnowski and Zofia née Szydłowiecka. He was married to Zofia Odrowąż since 1555, but had no issue. He was educated in the worldly affairs at the court of Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor, at his father's great expense claimed Orzechowski. He was owner of Tarnów, Wiewiórka, Przeworsk, Rożnów and Stare Sioło. Secretary of King Sigismund II Augustus since 1554, held offices of castellan of Wojnicz, starost of Sandomierz, Stryj and Dolina. Poor health disallowed Jan Krzysztof to have a substantial career in the military, Niesiecki said: ''King was shoving a lesser military command to him during the Muscovy war ( Northern Seven Years' War), but his health weak due to consumption prevented him from achieving knightly deeds.' Died prematurely, most likely to the ravages of tuberculosis, and was buried next to his father, Piotr Skarga presided over his funeral at Tarnów. On his person ended the Tarnów line of the Tarnowski family clan. Poet Jan Kochanowski dedicated his poem Chess to him.

title: Jan Krzysztof Tarnowski


text: Category:Curling stubs

title: Category:Curling stubs


text:
Big Creek Bridge (Oregon)

The Big Creek Bridge is a bowstring arch bridge that spans Big Creek on U.S. Route 101 in Lane County, Oregon. It was designed by Conde McCullough and opened in 1931.

The bridge has a total length of 180 ft and contains one 120 ft reinforced concrete tied arch, identical in design to Ten Mile Creek Bridge and Wilson River Bridge. The locations for all three bridges were similar in that the sandy foundations were not secure enough for the abutment piers required to relieve the lateral pressure of traditional arches. The flood levels of the rivers approached the road grade and ruled out the use of reinforced concrete girders. The corrosive salt air eliminated the practicality of steel truss bridges. The design of the bridge was similar to the rainbow arch design patented by James Barney Marsh.

The bridge, along with the Ten Mile Creek Bridge and the Wilson River Bridge, was rehabilitated in 1996 to increase the overhead clearance and add a cathodic protection system to protect the embedded steel reinforcement against the corrosive air. A project to replace the cathodic protection system began in February 2014.

title: Big Creek Bridge (Oregon)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charlos

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 02:55, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

Charlos
non-notable — J3ff 00:15, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC) p.s. I am way smarter than all of you together. My brain is the size of a dump truck. *flex*
 * Keep. This page should not be deleted because if it isn't "notable" then neither is 42% of the other stuff on here. -- Charlos 00:30, 2005 Feb 17
 * Delete. Not-notable and he vandalised this page (see Special:Contributions/172.168.33.110) -- RWH 00:58, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hey, it's that Charlos character who is not-notable enough to be on Wikipedia.
 * Don't Delete. "Hey, it's that Charlos character who is not-notable enough to be on Wikipedia. I'm dumb." is going to be in my book when I write an autobiography of my totally awesome life. People will laugh at you for saying that and say, "What a loser!"
 * FYI: According to the page history, 172.168.33.110 made that previous comment. Zzyzx11 05:23, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Strucken - one IP address one vote - is the rule. And the "keep" above is from this guy. -- RWH 05:32, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)
 * To Charlos: The ones who voted to delete your article now currently believe that you are not notable yet. But I'll admit as soon you become notable in the future, we might reconsider -- just as long as you don't keep on vandalised this page. Zzyzx11 05:28, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, vanity. Megan1967 06:20, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, speedy delete this crap. RickK 06:57, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Did a 30-something year old write this? Man, I hope not. That would just be sad. Delete (speedy would be even better). -R. fiend 07:35, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. CSD should be expanded to cover obvious crap like this. Ten years in a college and all he contributes to an encyclopaedia is some stupid vanity. Must be some diploma mill graduate. jni 08:46, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and block the idiot for vandalism. Trilobite (Talk) 10:32, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'd say this sounds more like the writings of an autistic 13 year old than a 30 year old graduate. Average Earthman 14:20, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as patent non-sense. GRider\talk 17:37, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * First off, this is not an encyclopedia. This is a haven for scrabble players who think they have gigantic brains that would crush a mortal child. Ignorant teenagers may frequently use wilkpedia as a source during arguments on live journal but no adults respect you guys. Come on. Half the stuff on here (a conservative estimate) is written by people less qualified than a baby. You guys aren't society's elite. You are hippies. Get over yourself and quit polluting the Internet with random crap passed off as factual information. Nobody respects you. Everyone thinks this place is trash the minute they figure out that anyone can edit it. You guys are no better than the other editable "encyclopedias" like that urban dictionary and whatever. Grow up.
 * Edit by 172.152.133.228.
 * I completely agree with everything 172.152.133.228 says. Wikipedia is crap and personally I am a hippie with an overinflated ego. However, none of this is germane to the VfD discussion of this particular article, which should be Deleted as unencyclopedic, vanity, possible prank or hoax, but in any case a biographical article on a non-notable person. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:43, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Could somebody BJAODN that bit about the scrabble players with child-crushing brains? Radiant! 13:04, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Longhair 12:27, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charlos


text:
People Just Like Us

People Just Like Us is the third live praise and worship album of contemporary worship music by Hillsong Church.

Making of the album
People Just Like Us was recorded live at the Hills Entertainment Centre by Geoff Bullock, Darlene Zschech and the Hillsong team. It has the first release of one of the most famous modern Christian worship song of all time, Shout to the Lord by Darlene Zschech.

The Majority of the songs were written by Geoff Bullock, Russell Fragar, and Paul Iannuzzelli.

Reception
In December 1997 Norman Smith of Cross Rhythms rated the album as 2 out of 10 and described the video as showcasing "glitzy, good looking, manufactured, well dressed, designer, brand new hairdo worship" where "only the beautiful, the groomed and the young are on display". He opined that "Although the songs themselves are sung with a certain conviction ... no matter how it's dressed up, and this dog's dinner of an offering ... [is a] contextless collection of schmaltzy, Sydney soap song[s]".

Track listing

 * 1) "Introduction"
 * 2) "People Just Like Us" (Russell Fragar)
 * 3) "Father of Lights" (Geoff Bullock)
 * 4) "In the Name of the Lord" (Bullock)
 * 5) "You Rescued Me" (Bullock)
 * 6) "The Power and the Glory" (Bullock)
 * 7) "Have Faith in God" (Bullock)
 * 8) "Your Love Keeps Following Me" (Fragar)
 * 9) "I Just Want to Praise the Lord" (Bullock)
 * 10) "Longin' for Your Touch" (Paul Iannuzzelli & Tim Uluirewa)
 * 11) "In the Silence" (Iannuzzelli)
 * 12) "Just Let Me Say" (Bullock)
 * 13) "Shout to the Lord" (Darlene Zschech)
 * 14) "Faith" (Bullock)

Credits
Worship Pastor Music Director Vocals Director Choir Directors
 * Geoff Bullock
 * Russell Fragar
 * Darlene Zschech
 * Annabelle Chaffey
 * Janine Bullock

Lead Vocals
 * Darlene Zschech
 * David Evans
 * Geoff Bullock
 * Lucy Fisher
 * Debbie Steinhardt
 * Rob Eastwood

Backing Vocals
 * Lucy Fisher
 * Gail Dunshea
 * Deborah de Jong
 * Debbie Steinhardt
 * Steve McPherson
 * Rob Eastwood
 * The Hillsong Choir

Piano Additional Piano & Keyboards Keyboards Guitars Bass Guitar Drums Percussion Trumpet Saxophone Flute
 * Geoff Bullock
 * Russell Fragar
 * Paul Iannuzzelli
 * David Moyse
 * Allan Chard
 * Paul Ewing
 * Adam Simek
 * Stuart Fell
 * Mark Gregory
 * Paul Iannuzzelli
 * Jun Javier
 * Jun Javier

Executive Producer Producers Engineer Post Production & Mixdown @ Rich Music Studios
 * Brian Houston
 * Geoff Bullock
 * Darlene Zschech
 * Russell Fragar
 * Jeff Todd

Assistant Engineers Mastered by: William Bowden (at Festival Records)
 * Frazer Stuart
 * Phil Munroe

Front Of House Engineer Foldback Engineer Technical Director
 * Nick Asha
 * Heath Graham
 * Cameron Wade

Photographer Artwork
 * Victoria Hawkins
 * Chris Perry Graphic Design
 * Asher Gregory

title: People Just Like Us


text: User talk:69.157.77.84

title: User talk:69.157.77.84


text:
Stephen Emerson

Stephen or Steven Emerson may refer to:

 * Stephen G. Emerson (born 1953), American scientist
 * Steven Emerson (born 1954), American writer
 * Stephen Emerson (author) (born 1950), American fiction and prose writer
 * Steve Emerson (visual effects artist), American special effects supervisor

title: Stephen Emerson


text:
User:The lesbian

Oh Wikipedia. How can you be so awesome and yet so neglectful of the women? Clearly there is some righting that needs to be done. Hooray!

title: User:The lesbian


text: Talk:People Just Like Us

title: Talk:People Just Like Us


text:
Southpark Mall (Virginia)

Southpark Mall is a shopping mall serving the Tri-Cities, Virginia area, which itself is part of the much larger Richmond-Petersburg metropolitan area.

Mall description
It contains 76 stores and is anchored by Dick's Sporting Goods, Macy's (originally Thalhimers, later Hecht's), JCPenney, and Regal Cinemas. The mall is accessible from I-95 (Temple Avenue Exit 54 and Southpark Boulevard Exit 53) exits. The mall serves the Tri-Cities, Virginia area of the Greater Richmond Region. Southpark Mall stands at approximately 800000 sqft.

History
Southpark Mall first opened in 1989. Five years later in 1994, Sam's Club opened in the mall's southeast outlot area. Dillard's closed in 2012. The store was originally Leggett and later Belk. The same year, renovations began on converting it to Dick's Sporting Goods and small shop space.

On November 2, 2017, it was announced that Sears, which had been at the mall since its opening in 1989, would be closing as part of a plan to close 63 stores nationwide. The store closed in January 2018.

title: Southpark Mall (Virginia)


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brownman40

Delete it.→ Jarlaxle Artemis


text: User talk:66.56.27.104

title: User talk:66.56.27.104


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Kenneth J. Harvey

Kenneth Joseph Thomas Harvey (born January 22, 1962) is a Canadian writer and filmmaker from Newfoundland and Labrador.

Harvey's debut short story collection, Directions for an Opened Body, was published in 1990. He followed up in 1992 with his first novel, Brud, which was a shortlisted finalist for the SmithBooks/Books in Canada First Novel Award in 1993.

His 2003 novel The Town That Forgot How to Breathe was his first book to be republished in the United States, and was the winner of the Thomas Head Raddall Award in 2004. In 2006, his novel Inside won the Rogers Writers' Trust Fiction Prize and the Winterset Award, and was longlisted for the 2006 Giller Prize.

His 2008 novel Blackstrap Hawco was longlisted for the Giller Prize in 2008.

As a filmmaker Harvey is most noted for his 2018 documentary film Immaculate Memories: The Uncluttered Worlds of Christopher Pratt, a profile of artist Christopher Pratt which was a Canadian Screen Award nominee for Best Feature Length Documentary at the 7th Canadian Screen Awards in 2019, and won the award for Best Canadian Film at the 2019 International Festival of Films on Art.

In 2000, with his wife Janet, Harvey founded the ReLit Awards, an annual award for independent Canadian literature. Management of the ReLits was taken over in 2021 by his daughter, Katherine Alexandra Harvey.

Books

 * Directions for an Opened Body - 1990
 * Brud - 1992
 * Stalkers - 1994
 * The Hole That Must Be Filled - 1995
 * Nine-Tenths Unseen - 1996
 * Kill The Poets: Anti-verse - 1998
 * The Flesh So Close - 1998
 * The Great Misogynist - 1998
 * Everyone Hates a Beauty Queen - 1998
 * The Woman in the Closet - 1998
 * Skin Hound - 2000
 * Little White Squaw: A White Woman's Story of Abuse, Addiction, and Reconciliation - 2002, with Eve Mills Nash
 * The Town That Forgot How to Breathe - 2003
 * Shack: The Cutland Junction Stories - 2004
 * Inside - 2006
 * Blackstrap Hawco - 2008
 * Reinventing the Rose - 2011

Films

 * I'm 14 and I Hate the World - 2011
 * box
 * It's a Girl
 * Remains
 * Geek Assassin - 2013
 * It Was Sunny The Day I Killed Her - 2015
 * The Immigrant's Handbook
 * The Drinking Life - 2017
 * I Heard the Birch Tree Whisper in the Night: Gerald Squires on Creation and Death - 2017
 * Immaculate Memories: The Uncluttered Worlds of Christopher Pratt - 2018
 * It Was All So Wonderful: The Everyday Magic of Mary Pratt - 2019
 * The Incredible Vanishing Sisters - 2022
 * What the Darkness Cannot Extinguish: The Storytelling Madness of Clifford George - 2023
 * The Governor of Georgetown - 2024

TV

 * The Slattery Street Crockers (Writer/Director/Producer)
 * B U C K Y (Writer/Director/Producer)
 * Lore (Writer/Director/Producer)

title: Kenneth J. Harvey


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Talk:Loamhedge

VfD
This article was listed for deletion on February 7 2005, the consensus was to keep it. Please see Votes for deletion/Loamhedge (book). Rje 00:23, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

move to Loamhedge. -- Kjkolb 08:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Loamhedge (book) → Loamhedge … Rationale: Loamhedge is a book in the Redwall series. Currently, several of the novels in this series have book titles followed by (book) or (novel).  I'm trying to change the article titles merely to that of the original novel, per Wikipedia article naming conventions.  In the case of Loamhedge, there is currently a (somewhat crufty) article located at Loamhedge about an abbey in the Redwall series.  I moved this article to a new location at Loamhedge (Redwall), but I require administrator help to move Loamhedge (book) to the Loamhedge page, which is currently a redirect.  Thanks! … Please share your opinion at Talk:Loamhedge (book). —Runch 16:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~

 * Support, slightly better naming options. :: Kevinalewis  :  (Talk Page) / (Desk)  10:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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title: Talk:Loamhedge


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Zofia Odrowąż

Zofia Odrowąż (1537–1580) was a Polish noblewoman.

She was the daughter of castellan and voivode Stanisław Odrowąż and only daughter of Anna of Masovia, last Masovian duchess of the Piast dynasty, and became the widow of the castellan of Wojnicz and castellan of Sandomierz. Shortly before 9 November 1555 she became the wife of Hetman Jan Krzysztof Tarnowski (1537–1567). After his death, late in 1574, she married Jan Kostka. With him, she had three surviving children: Jan Kostka, Anna Ostrogska, and Katarzyna Sieniawska.

title: Zofia Odrowąż


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Serkadji Prison

Serkadji Prison, formerly Barberousse Prison, is a high-security prison in Algiers, Algeria; in 1995, about two-thirds of the 1,500 prisoners detained are (or were) accused or convicted of terrorism.

History
The Barberousse Prison was constructed during the period of French rule, being built on the site of a former Turkish fortification located above the Casbah of Algiers. During the Algerian War of 1954-62 several hundred FLN activists and fighters were imprisoned there and 58 were executed by guillotine in the main courtyard. The prison was referred to as "Serkadji Prison" by Algerians even during colonization, but was called "Barberousse Prison" by the French and other Europeans until independence. Following Algerian independence there were plans to convert the prison into a historical museum. However under President Houari Boumediène the building resumed its role as a prison for political prisoners plus convicted criminals. Before the program of economic development from 2005 to 2009, the prison systems in Algeria were essentially the same as they had been during the colonial period in Algeria. Before the 2005-2009 period, Algeria had 127 penitentiary establishments classified into prevention, re-education, rehabilitation, specialized centers for women and specialized centers for minors. 76 of the prisons had been built prior to 1962 with 59 of them having been built before 1900. Post-1962, 51 more prisons had been built. This indicates that over half the prisons had been built prior to Algerian independence and had therefore been built with colonial subjugation in mind. 29 of the total penitentiaries were had been built for other purposes but were subsequently converted into prisons. Throughout colonization, Algeria became a site for criminal deportees from other countries, for example the June Insurgents who were from France but served their sentences in Algeria. Equally, Algerians who committed crimes or perpetrated rebellious acts against colonization were sometimes deported to other countries to serve their sentences as they were seen as negative influences on the population. In 2005, Algeria began the process of restructuring its penitentiary system and building new facilities. One of the reasons for this was that the prisons were overcrowded and lacked room for newcomers.

Architectural Development
Before colonization, prisons in Algeria were called "bagnes" as prisoners were put in baths during the night. The architecture of these buildings were characteristic of the Ottoman period with rooms arranged around a central patio. The entry of France into Algeria actually coincided with a period within the prison system in France. Therefore, those new styles of architecture being used in France were used in Algerian prisons as well. Prisons built during the colonial period were constructed in the penal architectural style. Their main focus was preventing escape rather than maximizing the wellbeing of the prisoners. Some of the prisons built are: Bilda (1936,) Ténès (1845,) Tazoult (1852,) Berouaghia (1857) and el Harrach (1910.) Several prisons from the colonial period are still functioning, but others like Serkadji prison are classified as national architectural heritage sites.

Before the main Serkadji prison, 3 others of the same name existed in Algeria:

1. Dar Serkadji el kedima was a prison for Turkish soldiers during the Ottoman period. It was used for torture and hangings primarily.

2. Dar Serkadji was located on today's rue Sallust in Algeria. It was a military prison and a civil prison simultaneously. After 1830 (colonization,) it was reestablished by the French as a military prison.

3. Dar Serkadji el Djedida was used exclusively for janissaries. The Europeans called this prison Barberousse after 1830 because of its location. It became a civil prison and was demolished in 1858 by the French.

When it was first built, Serkadji prison was referred to as the "civil prison of Algiers." The plans for the prison were created by French architects Guiauchain (main architect,) Abel Blouet and Henri Dugat. The prison underwent many architectural developments over the years. It was built in 1846 and, according to documents, was constructed in the shape of a cross. Originally, the prison had a front wing for administration, three wings of cells with walkways in between each wing, a basement for prisoners being punished, a basement for those sentenced to death and a wing for female prisoners in the east wing. In the center of the cross shape was a room for surveillance and the prison's chapel. The first extension to the prison was added in 1856. At this time, two new wings were added as well as two basements and an additional ground floor. One wing was specifically for those in debt, two wings were allotted for additional female prisoners and three infirmary rooms were added in the basement. As the actual floor plans for this extension were not discovered, these additions are essentially a hypothesis made by historians based on other documentation. A second extension occurred in 1937. As the infirmary had proven to be insufficient to house all the sick inmates, a medical block was added to the prison with consultation rooms, quarantine rooms for contagious detainees etc. A third extension took place in 1942. At this time, the number of prisoners was increasing and the prison was overrun. There were additional wings added to compensate for the growing number of inmates. After 1962 and Algerian independence, the prison was set to be turned into a museum. However, this was not the case and the prison remained functional. However, it no longer had a wing for prisoners on death row nor did it house female prisoners any longer. The prison has undergone several additional renovations since independence. After the construction of new prisons, the permanent closure of Serkadji was announced in 2014. It became a museum of national memory. In terms of architecture, Serkadji evolved around two things. It developed and was altered in accordance with the evolution of French and European architecture (due to colonization.) It was also extended and renovated to reflect the needs of the country, whether that be more space for more prisoners or better medical facilities. In this way, it became a sort of reflection of the state of Algeria itself.

Massacre
A prison mutiny took place between 21 and 23 February 1995 at Serkadji Prison. The catalyst to the mutiny was the alleged attempted escape of 4 prisoners aided by a guard. During the escape attempt four guards and one prisoner were killed. On the morning of 21 February, a small group attempted to escape, having been given 4 guns and 3 grenades by a recently appointed prison guard, Hamid Mebarki. After killing 4 prison guards before the security forces arrived, which is a fact agreed upon by officials and witnesses, they began opening the cell doors of fellow prisoners. Some prisoners chose to leave their cells and joined a growing mutiny while others remained in their cells or fled to the courtyards. According to the prisoners who left their cells, the original escapees were wearing masks, making them unidentifiable. During the negotiations between prisoners and prison administration, the prisoners demand lawyers be present. Prisoners demanded they be protected and not punished if they had no involvement in the uprising and the killing of the guards, however the administration rejected this request and terminated the negotiations. At mid-afternoon, the security forces stormed the prison and started shooting. Gunfire and the detonation of grenades continued until about 11 am the next day. Some human rights groups cited claims that the government had executed prisoners after resistance stopped without due process and shot the wounded.

After the failed breakout, security forces killed ninety-six prisoners (according to official figures; other sources claimed up to 110) while trying to suppress the resulting mutiny.

Controversy
Much controversy exists surrounding the exact circumstances under which the deaths of the guards and the prisoners occurred. There is a significant discrepancy between the official accounts provided by the government, the comments made by officials years after the fact, and the accounts of witnesses. From the official account, a small group of prisoners refused to surrender after the deployment of the security forces, took fellow prisoners hostage and used them as human shields against the bullets. This group allegedly killed detainees and threatened to hurt them if they agreed to surrender to the administration. The version of events as told by the prisoners, however, is different. Detainees at the time claim that security forces came in shooting haphazardly and gave prisoners no time to return to their cells or surrender. Equally, they claim that security forces targeted specific individuals to kill and deliberately shot detainees as they fled down corridors and through courtyards. Prisoners were also shot dead in their own cells and while hiding in the cells of others despite not participating in the uprising at all. Prisoners also claimed that names were called out on a list and those that stepped forward were quickly shot. Finally, even after the security forces had regained complete control, prisoners were brutally beaten in their cells, in the cells of others, and in courtyards.

ONDH Report
The ONDH Report on the events were also called into question as to their legitimacy. This report outlines that the security forces chose not to use tear gas as they did not want to cause asphyxiation among the prisoners who were in enclosed spaces. However, it did not justify why they instead chose to use firearms and grenades, which were obviously much more deadly weapons. ONDH officials agree that only a very small group of prisoners were armed and those that were armed were swiftly executed by snipers that were able to target them successfully. With this in mind, the need to deploy security forces with so many and such deadly weapons is further called into question. There was a huge discrepancy between how armed and protected prisoners were versus guards in this incidence. It appears as if, given this information, a large death toll would have been unsurprising to prison officials. The report equally states that only 12 prisoners were injured compared to 96 dead. This difference is striking and raises questions about the tactics of the security forces. The burial of those killed was another issue that became controversial. The corpses were buried without relatives or next of kin being informed. They were equally buried in graves marked only by "X-Algerian." Relatives of those killed who heard of what had happened often reached out to the prison for information, but received little. No autopsies or post-mortem exams were carried out, which could have revealed the cause of death of each prisoner. In addition to cause, it would have revealed whether the prisoner was killed by weapons carried by the security forces or by the weapons carried by escaped prisoners. It also would have shown how many were killed by grenades or other weapons. As the official claim states that many prisoners were killed by their peers and not security forces, autopsies would have confirmed or denied the legitimacy of these claims. Amnesty International chose to investigate the massacre, but were not permitted to visit the prison itself. They were also not allowed to meet with the Attorney General who had visited the prison after the incident. Amnesty asked several specific questions during their investigation. One was why the bodies were buried so quickly and why the government did not choose to exhume the bodies to examine them more closely. The response of the ONDH was not they already knew they had been shot despite saying in their report that some were also killed by grenades and knives. Another question involved whether or not the bodies were intact and what kinds of injuries they had sustained. The commission originally answered that most had only sustained one bullet wound to the head. When Amnesty International responded that this suggested that the security forces were intentionally killing prisoners in a targeted manner, the ONDH changed their answer to two or three bullet wounds per prisoner. Amnesty International cited the part of the report where the ONDH claimed they had taken pictures of each body, taken their fingerprints and wrote a description of their injuries before burying them. However, neither families nor lawyers nor any human rights organizations had been able to gain access to this documentation. The ONDH commission, according to reports, visited the prison and spoke to detainees. However, they were only able to speak to 10 of them despite there being 1500 prisoners being held there at the time of the massacre. Those 10 prisoners had also been on TV shortly after the events and gave an account identical to that of officials. Many have suggested that the prisoners were coerced or incentivized into testifying, but this has not been proved. It is indubitably odd, however, that the commission did not choose to speak with a larger group than 10 prisoners. Due to suspicions about their dead loved ones' whereabouts, families appealed to the courts to make the list of those killed public and to allow family members to see the dead bodies of their loved ones. Lawyers equally filed motions to have a few questions answered about the unfolding of the massacre. These involved why so many prisoners were transferred to the prison right before the mutiny, why the guard allegedly involved in supplying the prisoners with weapons had been transferred to the prison so soon before the mutiny and why some prisoners were incarcerated in a manner incompatible with Algerian code of prisons. Lawyers also questioned why guards were stationed in parts of the prison at the time that they were not trained to be in and why no third-party inspector was allowed into the prison after the massacre.

Current-day developments
No proper inspection has been carried out and the list of victims still has not been made public. No bodies have been exhumed or had a more detailed examination performed upon them. Amnesty International has continuously encouraged the Algerian government to carry out a detailed investigation and to publish the names of the dead.

An inquiry into the incident was conducted in March by an official human rights organization, the Observatoire National des Droits de l'Homme, which supported the Minister of Justice's account. Eight people were later sentenced to death for their parts in the escape attempt.

Today, the prison is a public museum.

Moroccans detained
Three Moroccans belonging to Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb were arrested in early June 2008, and transferred to Serkadji prison to await trial. Considered foreign elements in security jargon, it was unclear if they would be tried in Morocco or Algeria. Algerian security forces arrested the Salafists after they were successful in penetrating the western borders of Algeria. The three attested to carrying arms against the United States and advocating the overthrow of the pro U.S. monarchy in Morocco.

title: Serkadji Prison


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Talk:Bayazid Bastami

The Mystery About Shrine of Bayazid Bostami in Bangladesh
The Qur'an quote in this section is shorter in Arabic, as it lacks the "Wala tahsabanna allatheena qutiloo fee" and starts from "sabeeli..." Maybe extend the Arabic or remove it altogether? 94.237.127.43 (talk) 20:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup
Is this about the saint or his shrine? If the former, it's not a geo-stub, and shouldn't start with details about his shrine. If the latter, then it shouldn't be in the Iran category (since the shrine's in India), and should be renamed to reflect what it's really about! Grutness|hello? 00:26, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * The shrine is in Chittagong,Bangladesh. I think the article refers to the saint, and needs rewriting to reflect that. --Ragib 02:22, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

POV comments by anon
anon, you have written the following paragraph here:
 * There is a bit of confusion among some illiterate Iranians who, due to the unphoniticized Arabic script that is used in Persian, they misread "Bostam" as "Bastam" and embarras themselves in front of the rest of the world who laughs at them for not even knowing the proper names of their own culture and geography and history, and having to learn that from "foreigners". At any rate, the name of the city is "Bostam" and "Bostami" means from the city of Bostam.

Even if you are correct, you are displaying quite a biased and objectionable language about a particular country's people. Please use decent language in referring to any country or people. If the place's name is "Bostami", fine, show some proof/references. I am not from Iran, and the best way to find out information about that is to go through references I find online. Upon searching in google for "Bostam, Iran", I get 74 hits. "Bastam, Iran", on the other hand, returns 525 hits. If you have any good references showing that it is spelt Bostam, there is really no problem in using that here. But the reference to "Iranian people" being laughed at is really objectionable, and POV. I am removing that remark, and keeping both of the spellings in the article, until the matter is resolved. Thanks. --Ragib 05:34, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, the anonymous user ("Paul Ciu") is incorrect. The Persian Language Dictionary of Dehkhoda (which is the most respected of Persian language manuals) lists all three forms: Bistam, Bastam, and Bostam as correct. But it adds:

در تلفظ امروز به فتح است

 * trans: the contemporary pronunciation is Bastām. p4145

 * The text mentions absolutely nothing about "Bostam" other than the above mention. But it does mention that "bastam" was the name of the uncle of the Sassanid monarch Khosrow Parviz. p4144

 * I think perhaps it would be best to add that the city may have been called Bostam in the past (with references given). But then again, this article is not about the city, but about the Sufi known as Bastami aka Bistami.--Zereshk 14:15, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

A comment on removing the word gnostic
Bayazid was refered to as a Sufi Gnostic, I think by gnostic , actualy Aref , the Arabic word meaning one who has achieved direct mystical knowledge or gnosis was meant.But since Gnostic refers to a mystic tradition tied with Christiany i.e Gnosticism whith which Bayazid certainly had no relation , I found it confusing and removed it.Pasha Abd 04:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Bostam???
I am going to change the first sentence ending with "born in Bostam (...)" to "born in Bastam (known in the past as Bostam)". The reason? Dehkhoda says so. So after waiting a bit, I will change it unless a valid reference on possible use of Bostam in the present day is given.--خنیاگر (talk) 05:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I support your change. It seems Bastam is the correct translation.  In actually the word derives from the Pahlavi Vistam.--Nepaheshgar (talk) 05:13, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I change it and removed Bostam completely. The article is not about the city and as I said and others as well in the above discussion the city is know as Bastam. --خنیاگر (talk) 05:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Bayezid Bostami and his mother
There is a famous story in Bangladesh about Bayezid Bostami is that he was one night ordered by his ailing mother to bring a glass of water, which he couldn't find. So, he went to fetch water from a fountain and when he returned, he saw her asleep. So, he carried the jar of water all night, standing by her. In the morning, when she woke up, she was surprised and she blessed him.

Is the story valid? Where is the source, if anyone could provide me? Also, is it notable enough to be added in the article? Cheers. --Ifteebd10 (talk) 23:05, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bayazid Bastami


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Friends in High Places (Hillsong album)

Friends in High Places is the fourth album in the live praise and worship series of contemporary worship music by Hillsong Church. In 1999 the album was certified gold by Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) for shipment of 35000 units.

Making of the album
Friends in High Places was recorded live at The Hills Entertainment Centre by Geoff Bullock, Darlene Zschech, and the Hillsong team. This is the final album on which Bullock appeared. He left the church later that year (1995).

The majority of the songs were written by Bullock, Zschech, and Russell Fragar.

Reception
In December 1997 Peter Dilley of Cross Rhythms rated the album as 9 out of 10 and distinguished between the group and their contemporaries in United States and United Kingdom: "what sets Australian-sourced recordings apart from many US/UK worship releases is not so much their innovation as the unrestrained energy and vitality - if they're getting into a groove they really do make it funky".

Track listing

 * 1) "Friends In High Places" (Russell Fragar) — 03:51 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech
 * 2) "He Shall Be Called" (Fragar) — 03:00 — lead vocals: Lucy Fisher
 * 3) "Praise His Holy Name" (Darlene Zschech) — 03:25 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech
 * 4) "Rock Of The Ages" (Geoff Bullock, Zschech) — 03:23 — lead vocals: Donia Makedonez
 * 5) "Whenever I See" (Bullock) — 03:48 — lead vocals: Steve McPherson
 * 6) "Now Is The Time" (Bullock) — 05:17 — lead vocals: Rob Eastwood
 * 7) "You're All I Need" (Bullock) — 05:13 — lead vocals: Geoff Bullock, Darlene Zschech
 * 8) "Salvation" (Bullock) — 03:35 — lead vocalss: Darlene Zschech
 * 9) "Holding On" (Bullock) — 03:32 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech, Geoff Bullock
 * 10) "Because Of Your Love" (Fragar) — 02:52 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech b. Craig Gower
 * 11) "King Of Kings" (Bullock) — 03:14 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech
 * 12) "Lord I Give Myself" (Zschech) — 02:30 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech
 * 13) "I'll Worship You" (Bullock) — 04:32 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech; Geoff Bullock
 * 14) "This Kingdom" (Bullock) — 06:01 — lead vocals: Darlene Zschech
 * 15) "I Can't Wait" (Fragar) — 05:12 — lead vocals: Donia Makedonez; Lucy Fisher; Russell Fragar

Credits

 * David Moyse - guitar, engineer
 * Jeff Todd - engineer
 * William Bowden - mastering
 * Darlene Zschech - vocals, vocal producer
 * Michael Murphy - executive producer
 * Megan Parker - saxophone
 * Russell Fragar - piano, keyboards, vocals, producer, engineer
 * Geoff Bullock - piano, vocals
 * Janine Bullock - choir director
 * Annabelle Chaffey - choir director
 * Ruth Grant - background vocals
 * Allan Chard - guitar
 * Wayne Davis - bass
 * Adam Simek - drums
 * Stuart Fell - percussion
 * Karl Stone - trombone
 * Rob Eastwood - vocals
 * Mark Gregory - trumpet
 * Donia Makedonez - vocals
 * Nick Asha - engineer
 * Trevor Beck - engineer, assistant engineer
 * Erica Crocker - background vocals
 * Lucy Fisher - vocals
 * Craig Gower - keyboards, background vocals
 * Brian Houston - executive producer
 * Andrew McPherson - engineer
 * Steve McPherson - vocals

title: Friends in High Places (Hillsong album)


text:
Talk:Northern and southern China

Untitled
The identification of the Huai River as the historical boundary between north and south China is spot on. However, in modern China the boundary is generally perceived as the Yangtze River. Perhaps a note on this should be incorporated. Bathrobe — Preceding undated comment added 00:26, 17 February 2005 (UTC)

The split into North China and South China
Why is the split necessary at all? The split off articles are identical to the original article, which is pointless. This current article is more about the north-south split itself in any case; after all, the two concepts are basically defined in contrast to each other, and this article focuses on that by describing what distinguishes the two halves. I don't see why information about each of the two regions can't be presented in this current, merged form. -- ran (talk) 02:37, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

North and south?
Should it be northern and southern instead? :-) — Instantnood 13:12, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it probably should... -- ran (talk) 13:31, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

 * North and south sounds like talking about two countries, like those divided ones. :-D — Instantnood 13:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it sounds like North Korea and South Korea. -- ran (talk) 02:32, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Well China here is not talking about state(s), but a geographical region. ;-) "North and South" also reminds me of the rich and poor divide. — Instantnood 07:08, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I think there're some genetic differences as done by scientists on differences between Northern and Southern Chinese. The Hans are not as homogenous as they would like to think. Mandel 01:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Humans are 99.9% genetically similar to Chimpanzees. Does it matter if you are 0.000001% difference within an ethnicity? 64.18.152.49 (talk) 12:36, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

The genetic differences are not limited to the so call Northern and Sourthern divide. Also the concept of the northern and sourthern are different to different groups of people. For an example people from Shanghai (the Shanghaians) see themself as Sourtherners, but the Cantonese will never see them as Sourtherners. Instead, the Cantonese people see the Shanghaians (people from Shanghai) more like aliens from the north. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.19.148 (talk) 11:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Cultural Differences?
What about a short paragraph summarizing the cultural differences between Northern and Southern Chinese? Any experts on Chinese culture want to give it a shot? theboogeyman 05:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I understand at least Fujian and Guangdong have radically different customs and often folk beliefs from the general "northern" Chinese. For instance, much of the Chinese New Year foods in Hong Kong, which inherited them from Canton/Guangzhou, have no parallels in the north. Most Cantonese people tend to have more folk superstitions not shared by the north, and a majority of the colloquial slangs in Cantonese are lost in translation outside Guangdong.  In a curious twist, the northern Chinese are far more uncomfortable with the use of Cantonese language in their presence.

 * Chinese New Years FOOD? Of course cuisine is different in different regions of China, but that is expected for a country as large as China. Folk superstition is not closely followed post-Communist era in China. 64.18.152.49 (talk) 12:41, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

 * But bear in mind that for most northern Chinese, at least those in Peking/Beijing and the Northeast, "southern China" only refers to Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces. Guangdong is called "highland/far south" (Ling Nan).  Conversely, for Cantonese people everything north of Guangdong, even rice-eating areas including Sichuan province, Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces and sometimes Fujian province as well, are deemed as "northern".  --JNZ 23:58, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

To the Cantonese people, Fujianese are considered as Southern Chinese. The people who live north of the Yangtze River, are Northern Chinese. Sonic99 (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

When people are talking about the word Cantonese, what does that usually mean? As far as I can tell, it should all be 廣府人 and 廣府話 centric. In other word, it should not include non-廣府人 or non-廣府話 Guangdonese people or languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.19.148 (talk) 11:19, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

South China
South China redirects here, Northern and southern China, but it is somehow not desirable. In many case South China means 華南 or 南華, a region of South China, just like 華東 (East China), 華北 (North China), 東北 (Northeast China), 西南 (Southwest China), 華中 (Central China) and so on. But the article suddenly jumps to the comparison of Northern and southern China. It is simply not what South China means. — HenryLi (Talk) 07:57, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * if you read right above you you'd know why, as for what you are refering to, yes it would most likely be better for South China to redirect to geography of China or something. --1698 07:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Northern/Southern stereotypes
Source added: Eberhard, Wolfram (1965). "Chinese Regional Stereotypes." Asian Survey, vol. 5, no. 12 (December 1965), pp. 596-608. This not only presents 20th century survey data, but also chronicles stereotypes in the historical record in various periods of Chinese history dating back to 400 B.C. Badagnani 04:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Another source added: Morgan, Stephen L. (2000). "Richer and Taller: Stature and Living Standards in China, 1979-1995." The China Journal, no. 44 (July 2000), pp. 1-39. Badagnani 04:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

 * This is so bullcrap! Stereotyping people  is wrong.  It's Wrong! 128.226.170.133 23:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.226.170.133 (talk • contribs) 23:57, 15 September 2007
 * It's not a stereotype to say southerners are smaller, skinnier, and darker or that northerners are bigger, taller, etc. It's a fact. --Xiaogoudelaohu (talk) 07:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

 * True, but this article is all about the way Chinese class themselves into two separate groups and thus I think it's important to include this section as it describes how each group views the other (and possibly to a lesser degree themselves). Though it might be politically incorrect to use such stereotypes, including them in an encyclopaedia article is not, especially when they are historically important. Also, what is "mincemeat" supposed to mean? I'm familiar with the cooking ingredient, as well as the slang term as in "to destroy" but neither of those definitions make any sense in this context. Urban Dictionary doesn't help either. In this context, is it supposed mean an extreme outburst of emotion? Could someone please use a more accessible term? Serrin (talk) 17:12, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Look at this way, Americans divide themselves at the MD line too, and there are obvious stereotypes of a Northerner (American) and a Southerner (American). (talk) 10:47, 24 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.77.81 (talk)
 * That's a relatively good comparison. In America, "American" is not an ethnicity, nor is "Han" an ethnicity in China. These are both used to describe people who live in the country, speak the same language, and practice more or less the same culture (with perhaps slight differences around the country). Genetically speaking, in the north of the US, there are more immigrants from other countries, so more people have darker hair, brown eyes, etc., whereas in the south, people are more of English, Irish, French descent. China is similar, though not because of immigration, but because of historical migrations and settling of people. In the north, people are descended from various nomadic tribes from northern and central Asia such as Huns, Xianbei, Turks, Khitans, Jurchens, Mongols, Manchus, and many others. In the south lived the "Yue" people who are like Vietnamese, Thai, et al. Today, they live in the same country, their national language is Putonghua, and they practice the same culture, even if they have a different lineage.
 * There are many differences genetically, culturally, as well as linguistically between Chinese from north to south (although they are all called "Han") so acknowledging this difference has nothing to do with racism, prejudice, or anything else unless someone calls one superior to another (which would be an entirely different case). --Xiaogoudelaohu (talk) 20:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Comparison of Southern Chinese to Southeast Asians
This is to address the addition of the line within the Southern Chinese stereotypes that "they resemble other Southeast Asians". While you can imply that Southern Chinese share features that can be similar to Southeast Asians, I have to say that the formation of such sentence was done very poorly. To say they resemble other southeast Asians would be to imply that the southern Chinese were indeed in the southeast Asian category all along. That point is very debatable and controversial. Some may have strong views on that considering there have been wars fought over it. It would have been far better to have said it without the "other". If any others feel the need to add that line in, then it would also be necessary to add an additional stereotypes to the Northern Chinese category, perhaps bringing up their Mongolian or Manchurian neighbors. Otherwise it would seem that this is going towards a more prejudiced area. To try to maintain as much of an unbiased page as much as possible, I have deleted that particular sentence.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ludacris321 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Skin colour and others
oh really? to some, the 江南 region is also considered to be 南方, and the region, especially Shanghai, is known to produce fair-skinned people. and is Sichuan, which also has a great deal of pales, exactly northern (by most accounts), either? The climatic data, especially on humidity and total amount of sunshine, would also disagree with the article's assertions, too. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Stereotypes, which they are and are clearly marked as, are not necessarily accurate. Quigley (talk) 00:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

GuerillaRenMin's source is a British travel book, it is not a trustworthy source. It is a travel book for God's sake. Until you get a book about the geneaology of the Chinese peoples, and it's stereotypes in skin colour and other bodily forms then you cannot state anything solid. It's also true than Sichuan and Shanghai have light skin tones, but it is mostly Northerners who are genrally percieved to have whiter skin. Because Northerners are seen as paler, by many of the Chinese, it is a stereotype - which clearly does fit into that subsection. This section does not really need a citation or a source/reference. It is not a fact - the section clearly on requires stereotypes. GuerillaRenMin is trying to pull a farce and rewrite 5000 years of Chinese self-sterotyping with a Fodor's travel book's conjectures and assertions. What if it was a typo? Who knows. You need more sources to back it up. (Pugu (talk) 22:50, 30 June 2012 (UTC))
 * "By many of the Chinese"? That's not what I've heard, and in fact, I've heard the exact opposite. Until you can produce at least 5 studies (and yes I read Chinese), the bit about skin tone will stay out of the article. GotR Talk 23:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Globalizing South China  By Carolyn Cartier
http://books.google.com/books?id=TRuqcutRvUAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.paragonbook.com/html/browsesubj/browse.cfm?regionid=5&subjectid=36&group=1&print=yes&RequestTimeOut=3600

http://www.cmecc.com/uploads/课本和论文/中国城市/[70][中国城市]Carolyn.Cartier(2002)Globalizing.South.China.pdf

Rajmaan (talk) 02:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Map Request
I have requested a map for this article. Although some maps are already included in the article, they all require careful readings of the text plus the map captions to discern how their content relates to the topic of the article. Granting that the dividing line is ambiguous, I would still expect that one of the following might obtain: (a) someone has done an academic study regarding perceptions of North/South by Chinese people and lines could be drawn on that basis, (b) some government agency has autocratically decided the division and lines could be drawn on that basis (as in Image:Us_south_census.png) (c) the Huai River–Qin Mountains line referred to later in the article could be drawn alone on a map, or, if no single map is sufficient, (d) multiple lines could be drawn that reflect multiple commonly used divisions (perhaps in a rotating image file). Elatb (talk) 00:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Capitalisation
I suggest "southern" in the title of the article be capitalised. - 00:25 CEST on the 29. of May 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:C440:20:1116:94D7:798C:E97:13A3 (talk) 23:27, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Genetics
Southern Han largely share the same Y chromosomes with the same mutations as northern Han, while differing in mtdna and autosomal DNA.. Due to southern Han being descended from northern Han migrants who moved to southern China and married native women

http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://udini.proquest.com/view/how-han-are-taiwanese-han-genetic-pqid:1668343911/

http://gradworks.umi.com/33/43/3343568.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15372031

http://159.226.149.45/compgenegroup/paper/wenbo%20Han%20culture%20paper%20(2004).pdf

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v431/n7006/full/nature02878.html

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n6/abs/5201998a.html

Do not use the blog as a reference, but use it to find and cross reference other sources.

http://blog.renren.com/share/288113449/11798480444

Teochew, Fujianese, and Hakka Y chromosome compared in Singapore. The three groups largely share the same Y chromosome

http://scholarbank.nus.edu.sg/bitstream/handle/10635/27767/Summary.pdf?sequence=3

Differences between southern Han Chinese groups like Chaoshan, Hakka, and Cantonese is mainly in the mtdna lineage inherited from the mother, where some southern Han have heavy amounts of southern native mtdna.

http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-XAYX201006005.htm

http://online4kim.net/xe/files/attach/images/7507/170/020/0b9b8d714566edea3954827c018a3c88.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6590358575_7450cf0f53.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2131/yndahan.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5609/2008112521014723.jpg

http://www.ranhaer.com/attachments/forumid_48/1308171634806ad8e74f2ed197.jpeg

http://www.ranhaer.com/index.php

Taiwanese Plains Aborigines, Taiwanese people

有唐山公，無唐山媽

"Have mainland (Tangshan) grandfathers, don't have mainland (tangshan) grandmothers

http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA21#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://udini.proquest.com/view/how-han-are-taiwanese-han-genetic-pqid:1668343911/

http://gradworks.umi.com/33/43/3343568.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=I2OMVmp-7mwC&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false

Autosomal DNA

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/12/genetic-map-of-east-asia/#.U1XEV_k71C8

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/eastasiasmall.jpg

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0003862

http://www.plosone.org/article/slideshow.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003862&imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003862.t001#

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/STq-lWLjfwI/AAAAAAAAAb0/wSNXMS5rG4o/s1600-h/journal.pone.0003862.g001.jpg

http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/journalpone0003862g0011.jpg

http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/journalpone0003862g0021.jpg

http://pmsol3.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/journalpone0003862t001.jpg

Genetic tests on minority Zhuang Y Chromosomes show them to be of Baiyue descent, while they have some Northern Han y chromsomes due to migration of northern Han to southern China.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17185165

http://www.comonca.org.cn/LH/Doc/A30.PDF

A map of Baiyue ethnic groups in Southern China during the Zhou dynasty's rule over Northern China.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/MGSG/fig1mt72e.gif

http://s173.photobucket.com/user/MGSG/media/fig1mt72e.gif.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Milktaco (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Historical Migration of Northern Han to Southern China
http://books.google.com/books?id=0DPEol7HO3gC&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=0DPEol7HO3gC&pg=PA214#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jqb7L-pKCV8C&pg=PA182&dq=Yellow+registers+white+chin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LDgWU4PhEo3H0AHpnIHICQ&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20chin&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=jqb7L-pKCV8C&pg=PA182#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JTAcbF8cpQsC&pg=PA40&dq=Yellow+registers+white+chin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LDgWU4PhEo3H0AHpnIHICQ&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20chin&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=126EsR8rpC8C&pg=PA26#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=KS6sAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA181&dq=Yellow+registers+white+jin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8jcWU-GlF8Wj0QG89oD4DA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20jin&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=0wRikR7hhFQC&pg=PA67&dq=Yellow+registers+white+jin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8jcWU-GlF8Wj0QG89oD4DA&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Yellow%20registers%20white%20jin&f=false

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/MGSG/fig1mt72e.gif

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Milktaco (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

alternate names
Cantonese call themselves men of Tang, or Tang people, since they were descended from northern migrants from Central Plain (China) region who fled south during the Tang dynasty, and central plains people back then were called Tang people.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ERnrQq0bsPYC&pg=PA752#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=O72FhsxwzcAC&pg=PA37&dq=cantonese+middle+chinese+mandarin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4aGAUqnLC8flsATRgIGQBA&ved=0CD4Q6wEwAQ#v=onepage&q=cantonese%20middle%20chinese%20mandarin&f=false

Cantonese dialect is close to Chinese language during the Tang dynasty

http://books.google.com/books?id=8OT_Sbk0yekC&pg=PA99&dq=cantonese+middle+chinese+mandarin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4aGAUqnLC8flsATRgIGQBA&ved=0CFcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=cantonese%20middle%20chinese%20mandarin&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Fo087ZxohA4C&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_-dJxMfdhvEC&pg=PA6&dq=cantonese+middle+chinese+mandarin&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4aGAUqnLC8flsATRgIGQBA&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cantonese%20middle%20chinese%20mandarin&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 20:51, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

There is a similar article
Qinling Huaihe Line. --Komitsuki (talk) 03:00, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Some of these articles should be merged into Geography of China. Vacosea (talk) 18:11, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 18 October 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus to move at this time (closed by non-admin page mover) Polyamorph (talk) 11:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Northern and southern China → North–south divide in China – Amended from North–south divide (China) as per suggestion Or something like it, to make the focus of the article more clear, rather than just inviting copied fragments and statistics from other pages. Remsense 聊  17:54, 18 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Lightoil (talk) 19:13, 25 October 2023 (UTC)  — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 08:48, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Move to North–south divide in China per WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. amended suggestion as such Remsense  聊  02:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, had to further change the amended nomination statement because RMCDbot was marking it as a malformed request. Hopefully, this causes the error to stop showing up? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Although the original entry name is confusing, the wording of "divide" is pretty awkward, to be honest. Probably a better name needed. Cfls (talk) 20:05, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Cfls, do you have any suggestions? I'm genuinely racking my brain for an encyclopedic noun that means 'divide', but isn't, you know, . — Remsense  聊  10:41, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't think of a better title than the one proposed. I don't personally find the proposed title awkward, but as you say the current title is confusing. Even assuming the proposed title is awkward, an awkward title is better than a confusing title. So the proposed title is an improvement. Therefore the article should be moved. And if someone comes up with a better title in the future, we can always move the article again. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:43, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Question: What is unclear or confusing about the current title? —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 13:27, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Mx. Granger, I suppose simply stating the existence of two categories is less clear than specifically articulating that the subject of the article is the distinctions between them, if that makes sense? Remsense  聊  19:58, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess. When the categories are opposites or form a dichotomy, I think it's pretty clear. Compare Natural rights and legal rights, Old and New Lights, Northern, Central and Southern Vietnam, and especially Global North and Global South. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:46, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, the issue perhaps is a bit clearer when there are already distinct North China and South China articles, rather than the two concepts being more clearly joined at the hip, which is arguably the case with Global North and South. Remsense  聊  03:09, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Premature: Many parts of the article are not cited or are referenced by sources focused on other topics. They should be addressed before we worry about the title. The same seems to be true for the North and South China articles. Vacosea (talk) 00:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Vacosea, It's certainly more important, but I'm confused why you think one would be in any way getting in the way of the other. If anything, making the subject of the article marginally more clear would make me feel better about expanding it. Remsense  聊  00:14, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It would help define the topic more concisely if we know what the sources are focused on and which parts are OR or passing mentions. Vacosea (talk) 00:22, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I will put it on my list to source some proper references for this article. Remsense  聊  00:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Within China the most pronounced variations are based on elevation and population density going from east to west. There is a gradual gradient of differences in the population and culture going from north to south but it is very mixed in terms of food, language, skin color, or height for example. Also, "northerner" and "southerner" sometimes exclude northeasterners and Mongolians as well as southerners in South China but include parts of Southwestern China and Northwest. It is a very vague and informal way of reference, without any universal consensus. The South and North China articles are not really about these northern-southern gradients. They are much closer to historical regions like the Midwest or South of the U.S. which do not necessarily match any actual variation or statistics. Vacosea (talk) 16:51, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Northern and southern China


text:
Jens Orback

Jens Olov Heinrich Orback (born 21 April 1959 in Stockholm) is a Swedish Social Democratic politician. He was Minister for Democracy, Metropolitan Affairs, Integration, and Gender Equality in the Ministry of Justice in the Cabinet of Göran Persson (2004-2006).

Jens Orback graduated from Stockholm University in 1985 with a Bachelor of Science in Economics. He was active in the Swedish Social Democratic Youth League at a local level, and worked in the Ministry of Finance in the late 1980s, before embarking on a career as a television journalist with the public service channels of Sveriges Television. In 2002, he returned to local politics in Stockholm, serving as the chair of the council of Maria-Gamla Stan borough until he became a minister on 1 November 2004.

Between 2008 and 2016 he was the Secretary General of the Olof Palme International Center, after which his currently works as Executive Director of the Global Challenges Foundation

title: Jens Orback


text: User talk:24.64.127.199

title: User talk:24.64.127.199


text:
Shule

Shule may refer to:

 * Shule Kingdom in Kashgar, an ancient kingdom in Xinjiang, China
 * Shule County, a county in Xinjiang, China
 * Shule, a minor figure in the Book of Mormon
 * Synagogue (Shul or Shule), a Jewish house of worship

title: Shule


text: Talk:Friends in High Places (Hillsong album)


text:
Devils & Dust

Devils & Dust is the thirteenth studio album by the American singer-songwriter Bruce Springsteen, and his third acoustic album (after Nebraska and The Ghost of Tom Joad). It was released on April 25, 2005, in Europe and the following day in the United States, where it debuted at No. 1 on the US Billboard 200 album chart.

Background
Springsteen revealed that many of the songs from Devils & Dust dated back a decade or more. He wrote "All the Way Home" for Southside Johnny to use in his album Better Days (1991). "Long Time Comin and "The Hitter" were written and performed on Springsteen's 1996 solo Ghost of Tom Joad Tour. "Devils & Dust" featured in soundchecks during The Rising Tour in 2003. The following year it was on the set list for at least one Vote for Change show, but was swapped out at the last moment for a 12-string guitar rendition of the "Star Spangled Banner", which he would later release for free through his official website.

Release and promotion
On March 28 the title track was featured as an exclusive preview on AOLmusic.com. The next day it was released on iTunes, and also on DualDisc, the DVD side of which featured Springsteen performing and commenting on five tracks: "Devils and Dust", "Long Time Comin, "Reno", "All I'm Thinkin' About", and "Matamoros Banks". Springsteen embarked on a solo Devils & Dust Tour to promote the album.

Starbucks had been considered a possible retail outlet for the album, as it had accounted for about a quarter of all sales for the recently successful Ray Charles's Genius Loves Company. The company declined, with news coverage citing as reasons the song "Reno", with its reference to anal sex, and Springsteen's refusal to approve a co-branded disc and promotional deal that prominently featured the Starbucks name. "There were a number of factors involved. It [the lyrics] was one of the factors, but not the only reason," Ken Lombard, president of Starbucks Entertainment, told Reuters. At a concert at the Tower Theater in Philadelphia, Springsteen introduced "Reno" by joking that the album would be available "at Dunkin' Donuts and Krispy Kreme stores everywhere."

The album was Springsteen's seventh No. 1, and fourth No. 1 debut, on the Billboard albums chart, his second for an album containing only previously unreleased content, and his first ever without the E Street Band. It went gold in the US in 2006, where it had sold 650,000 copies as of November 2008.

Critical reception
In a rave review, Rolling Stone lauded the album as being "in striking and affecting ways... Springsteen’s most audacious record since the home-demo American Gothic of 1982’s Nebraska". The songs are "rendered with a subdued, mostly acoustic flair that smells of wood smoke and sparkles in the right places like stars in a clear Plains sky", David Fricke wrote. "Shocked by the song about sodomy? Wait 'til you hear the Dylan impression" was how The Guardian opened its review, citing the "Reno" lyrics, "Two hundred dollars straight in, two-fifty up the ass", and which it reports Springsteen as having justified with the remark, "It's just what felt right". It found the album to be flawed, but praised that it "rarely does what you expect it to". Devils and Dust received five Grammy Award nominations, three for the song "Devils & Dust"; Song of the Year and Best Rock Song. Springsteen was nominated for Best Solo Rock Vocal Performance, and the album for Best Contemporary Folk Album and Best Long Form Music Video. He took home the award for Best Solo Rock Vocal, which he had previously won for "Code of Silence" and "The Rising". During the February 8 Grammy telecast, Springsteen gave a live solo performance of "Devils & Dust", adding "Bring 'em home" at the finish, and then immediately turned and left the stage without staying to receive his partial standing ovation.

Track listing
All songs are written by Bruce Springsteen.

Personnel
Adapted from the liner notes: Technical
 * Bruce Springsteen – vocals (tracks 1-12), guitar (tracks 1-12) , keyboards (tracks 1-12) , bass guitar (track 8) , drums (tracks 8, 11) , percussion (tracks 2, 5, 7, 9, 10) , tambourine (track 3) , harmonica (uncredited)
 * Brendan O'Brien – bass guitar (tracks 1, 2, 4–6, 11), tambora (tracks 2, 6) , sitar (track 2) , electric sarangi (track 2) , hurdy-gurdy (track 6)
 * Steve Jordan – drums (tracks 1, 2, 4, 6), percussion (track 5)
 * Nashville String Machine – strings (tracks 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 12)
 * Soozie Tyrell – violin (tracks 4, 6), backing vocals (tracks 4, 6, 8, 11)
 * Marty Rifkin – steel guitar (tracks 2, 4)
 * Susan Welty – horns (tracks 1, 3, 5, 10)
 * Thomas Witte – horns (tracks 1, 3, 5, 10)
 * Brice Andrus – horns (tracks 3, 5, 10)
 * Donald Strand – horns (tracks 3, 5, 10)
 * Mark Pender – trumpet (track 9)
 * Chuck Plotkin – piano (track 2)
 * Danny Federici – keyboards (track 4)
 * Patti Scialfa – backing vocals (tracks 4, 6, 8, 11)
 * Lisa Lowell – backing vocals (tracks 8, 11)

 * Brendan O'Brien – production (tracks 1-12), mixing (tracks 1–4, 6, 7, 10, 11)
 * Bruce Springsteen, Chuck Plotkin – production (tracks 2, 4)
 * Toby Scott – recording (tracks 1-12), mixing (tracks 5, 8, 9, 12)
 * Nick Didia – recording
 * Karl Egsieker – second engineer
 * Billy Bowers – additional engineering
 * Tom Tapley – additional recording assistant
 * Eddie Horst – string & horn arrangements
 * Bob Ludwig – mastering
 * Chris Austopchuk – art direction
 * Dave Bett, Michelle Holme – art direction, design
 * Anton Corbijn – photography

title: Devils & Dust


text:
Talk:Lynne Marie Stewart

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title: Talk:Lynne Marie Stewart