text:
Talk:Durban

Please remove the crest and the motto - they were phased out after 1994 and are no longer applicable. The only official symbol for Durban is the Dome symbol. Angela Spencer eThekwini Webmaster

SA's biggest cities
If Cape Town is listed as having 2.9m people, and Durban at 2.7m, how does that make Durbs the second-biggest? :) Dewet 14:22, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * It appears that both Soweto and Johannesburg each have a smaller official population than Durban due to how municipal borders are drawn. See de:Liste der Städte in Südafrika for more information. – Wikipeditor 01:02, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

 * At the top of that page it says "Die größten Agglomerationen in Südafrika sind Johannesburg mit einer Einwohnerzahl von 6.820.713, Kapstadt mit einer Bevölkerung von 4.302.014 und Durban mit einer Einwohnerzahl von 4.053.689." Presumably that would make Cape Town actually slightly larger?

 * Furthermore, the World Gazetteer at states the Cape Town metropolitan area's population at 4 503 063, while Durban's at 3 244 028. (Or see, where cities rather than metropolitan areas are listed, and Cape Town still comes out larger.)

 * Largest South African Metropolitan Areas has different statistics, but Cape Town still comes out ahead. Based on this evidence, I'm going to be bold and remove the claim for Durban. - htonl 15:37, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

 * OK, I'll accept that perhaps at some time Durban did overtake Cape Town. However, it seems clear that Cape Town is now larger, and I've edited to indicate that, rather than removing the claim entirely. - htonl 15:42, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Pse explain why it is then stated:

'Cape Town is the second most populous city in South Africa ..... [...] population 2,893,251

Durban (Zulu: eThekwini) is the third most populous city in South Africa [....] the city has a population of almost 3.5 million'

 * The Cape Town figure you're referring to is the 2001 Census result. The result from the 2007 community survey shows that Cape Town, now with 3,497,097 inhabitants, has passed Durban nowadays. You'll find the results from the community survey here (pdf-file). --Pjred (talk) 07:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I've moved the part about Durban being the third most populous city to the start (it used to follow "DBN is largest city in KZN"). If I am not mistaken, Durban has historically been the third largest city in SA. Granted, and now the lead section goes like that; but "third largest" means metro size and not solely Durban, so isn't it sort of misleading to speak of Durban as the third largest? Or is that the custom when talking about chief cities and so on in geography articles? Thanks! GeoffreyA (talk) 08:56, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Demographics
The statement that Durban "has the most Indians of any city outside India" was not accurate. For example, the 2011 UK census data shows that London has 432k ethnic Indian residents. If this is broadened to include the pre-independence borders for India then the total is 655k See https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107125615/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-and-quick-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-the-united-kingdom---part-1/rft-ks201uk.xls and https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107125615/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm%3A77-327143

Indians
This is vague: The large number of Indians were brought to work on the plantations and as a result it has the largest Indian population outside of India. Do you mean the largest Indian population outside of India, for a city? But in any case isn't the whole project of linking South African 'Indians' with India is a little problematic: after many generations, the link is a bit tenuous - when do they become South Africans? Consider how odd the sentence would sound if it were changed to the following: Durban has the largest English population outside of England. Psylocybha 01:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Merged text from Freeways of Durban
I merged the data from Freeways of Durban as the final result from Votes_for_deletion/Freeways_of_Durban. --Deathphoenix 05:20, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to DURBAN DEEP in relation to the port. DURBAN DEEP is a gold mine in Gauteng, it had nothing to do with Durban. The reference to the Elton John song  DURBAN DEEP has nothing to do with Container Ports.. rather it refers to Gold Mines. there are no gold mines in durban.. jimmyjazz      26 Oct 2005.. 20h00 GMT

Zulu name
eThekwini is the locative of iTheku. itheku means lagoon or harbour, iTheku means Durban, ethekwini means in/at/to/from the lagoon, and eThekwini means in/at/to/from Durban. Joziboy 14 March 2006, 21:15 (UTC)
 * I'll change it. The aspiration was also left out, but this still needs to be checked. On second thought, I'll just remove the IPA altogether. Zulu orthography is reasonably phonemic. kwami (talk) 02:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Public Schools?
Isn't that a peculiarly British expression? Maybe Joburg is different, but to us the two forms of school were private and government. Joziboy 5 May 2006, 19:31 (UTC)

The South African Schools Act of 1996 recognised only two categories of schools: public and independent. Public schools are state controlled and independent schools are privately governed. All private schools were included in the independent school category. Raker 05:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Why are the schools listed in this entry? Should this not be in another category? I don't really see the reason for it being on this Wikipedia page. I suggest that just the tertiary institutes be included with maybe a small write up as these are the ones that are of significance in Durban (147.110.251.38 (talk) 12:55, 29 January 2013 (UTC))

Latin motto
The Latin in that motto looks pretty odd. Sure it's right? http://www.translation-guide.com/free_online_translators.php?from=Latin&to=English

Says :- "To weaken Beginning Better Fortune The following" - compare "Better Fortune Follows A Difficult Beginning".

Looks fine to me.. Wizzy… ☎   13:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

This page is absolutely ridiculously written. Somebody has put everything in the picture box and it looks horrible.

Balanced?  -Informal sector-
"A shack dwellers' movement Abahlali baseMjondolo that draws most of its membership from this sector has begun to vigorously contest the city's treatment of the poor and, in particular, its refusal to provide services to shack settlements and the ongoing illegal evictions in which people are either left homeless or, as under apartheid, forcibly removed to the urban periphery of the city"

I don't know anything about this topic, and that is excactly why I visited the page. However, the quoted text seems a tad bit biased. Anyone competent who can improve the text?

83.108.130.179 (talk) 23:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Shack Dwellers
I have reverted the changes again as there was many problems with it.

 * 1) The page was badly formated, the way you are quoting references is wrong, your edit was actually breaking the article, (at the bottom by the references). If you break the page then we must revert the changes rather than fix it as I have tried to do.
 * 2) The mercury cannot be used as you are asking people to subscribe. You cannot ask readers to register to check your references.
 * 3) The reference, Centre on Housing And evictions (p29), does not use the words routinely, illegally or unconstitutionally.
 * 4) The link to ODS, is broken, we cannot see page 14 and 15.
 * 5) The link you gave for the Freedom of Expression Institute, is a letter to Mike Sutcliffe, it does not mention words like unlawfully and unconstitutionally.
 * 6) The link to COHRE - South Africa, does not mention church leader, bishops or any statements made.
 * 7) The link to FXI, (Court victory for shack dwellers), and The DailyNews, (Court declares Abahlali march legal), only mention legal actions against the marches, nothing about demolishing shacks. It does not say anything about the constitutionality of the evictions.
 * 8) The website http://www.abahlali.org/ cannot be used as it is not a reliable source. But more importantly Abahlali is a Shack dweller action group and we cannot expect their website/opinion to be fair as they were involved of the court cases/evictions/marches.

This whole section is not very neutral at all. FFMG (talk) 11:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Again I had to revert the changes, for the same reasons.
 * Some of the links are broken
 * The mercury requires a, (paid), subscription to view the references.
 * Some of the links given either do not mention Durban or simply have nothing to do with the text been referenced.
 * Abahlali.org is not an acceptable reference, some of the quotes given are mentioned nowhere else on the internet.
 * The reference section is broken with bad links and references.
 * Please, lets discuss these, (and other points), before we make any more changes. FFMG (talk) 09:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Demographics and unemployment
Original text: "27.9 percent of city residents are unemployed. 88.6 percent of the unemployed are black, 18.3 percent are Coloureds, 8.2 percent are Asians or Indians, and 4.4 percent are White.[6]" The data is inconsistent, because the percentage of unemployed black, Coloured, Asian/Indian and white population sums almost 120%. The source is not precise to verify the origin of the inconsitency. Please provide a precise source or explain the reasons of the (apparent?) inconsitency. Just as a guess: It might be a typo: if the black uneployed population is 68.8 percent, the sum of all groups would be 99.7%. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.23.247.13 (talk) 11:03, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Blue Lagoon / Coconut Grove
sir / madam

with all due respect i ask, why are the guys that are doing an honest living day to day by washing cars around the areas mentioned. These guys are getting arrested by police and there equipment getting conviscated. This is now turning these guys into criminals whereby they will turn to robbery,hijacking etc etc. Hope i could be heard here by making a statement and just looking after the better interest of DBN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.121.76.40 (talk) 15:30, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

History
The entry where Fynn assists in healing some battle wounds Shaka received is slightly incorrect. The wounds were received during a long celebratory dance, an assagay penetrated his left arm and stuck his chest deep enough for him to cough up blood. Fynn washed the cuts with chamomile tea and dressed the wounds while a witchdoctor purged Shaka. A number of others received stab wounds during the same dance and it's generally believed it was some sought of assassination attempt.

Fynn also wasn't granted any land. Farewell drafted an agreement whereby Shaka granted him (Farewll) outright title to Port Natal, some 3500 square miles, on the 7th August 1824. Further the actual agreement itself though now lost, was said to be legally questionable.

Eigersa (talk) 11:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Population
How can the population of Durban be 3.5 million when the eThwekwini municip. was only 3 million in 2001? Municipality and City is not the same. If Pinetown and Durban are the same thing then Durban has 3.5 million people. If Somerset-West is the same as Cape Town, then will Cape Town have 3.7 Million inhabitants. Bezuidenhout (talk) 19:40, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I refer you to my answer to your similar question at Talk:Cape Town. In the case of Durban, the table of Main Places is as follows:

 * —htonl (talk) 22:01, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Climate
The maximum temperatures quoted in the table under the Climate section, are not the same as the ones referenced at http://old.weathersa.co.za/Climat/Climstats/DurbanStats.jsp

The temperatures on this source's website are actually several degrees lower. Mikejburden (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Indians/Asians / Europeans
Given that there is a section about the Europeans, who are 14-15% of the city's population and there is a section about the European settlement, wouldn't it be reasonable if there was also a section about Indians/Asians that represent around 25% of the city's population? Viet-hoian1 (talk) 06:52, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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tempretures
what is durbans coldest tempreture ever recorded im busy with a project but cant find anything to help me — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.0.238.87 (talk) 06:31, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * See under "Geography" and "Climate".

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Evictions and political controversy section
Is this article being used as a WP:Soapbox? It seems to be a long-running gateway for Abahlali baseMjondolo stories, which are given WP:Undue weight. Park3r (talk) 14:10, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * This article is written by a number of users. Could you give some specifics about text you find POV or incorrect? Ashmoo (talk) 13:38, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Very large demographic changes 2001-2011 census

 * The population of the city of Durban and central suburbs such as Durban North, Durban South and the Berea increased 10.9% between 2001 and 2011 from 536,644 to 595,061.[24][25] The :proportion of Black Africans increased while the proportion of people in all the other racial groups decreased. Black Africans increased from 34.9% to 51.1%. Indian or Asians :decreased from 27.3% to 24.0%. Whites decreased from 25.5% to 15.3%. Coloureds decreased from 10.26% to 8.59%. A new racial group, Other, was included in the 2011 census at 0.9

The census figures are being reported uncritically in this article, but these swings seem quite large, particularly for Black Africans and Whites. Was the census area changed, were there methodological issues, or did such huge demographic shifts really happen? Park3r (talk) 00:04, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Moses Mabhida Stadion durban aerial view 1.jpg

Old references
GeoffreyA (talk) 08:56, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Lead section: eZibubulungwini
A quick Google search shows that most results are quoting the phrase straight from Durban's Wikipedia article; that is, the information is not coming from outside, seemingly. I am not a Zulu speaker, but is this word used, commonly and historically, to describe the city? GeoffreyA (talk) 14:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

 * I found that this is derived from the Zulu word for the Bluff. GeoffreyA (talk) 16:04, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Durban


text: Category:Peruvian people by occupation

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Peruvian people by occupation


text:
User:Entropia~enwiki

HI! I won't list my work, links and whatnots since I haven't done much at all yet. I only want to say: Wikipedia is great!!!

As you have guessed, I'm a newbie here but I hope I'll learn fast enough.

Entropia

title: User:Entropia~enwiki


text:
KNI

KNI can refer to:

 * KNI A/S or Greenland Trade, a state-owned retail company in Greenland
 * Streaming SIMD Extensions
 * Katanning Airport, IATA airport code "KNI"

title: KNI


text:
User:Shoaler

Wikipedian since August 2004, pursuing a few topics of interest (including the Isles of Shoals from which I derive my nickname). I enjoy standing guard on Recent Changes, cleaning up typos, bad grammar, and vandalism when I see them, fixing links, correcting inaccuracies, and rewriting header paragraphs so they are NPOV and say just what the article is about. I also enjoy cartography and experimenting with Photoshop for map construction.

I am currently a resident of Frederick County, Maryland.

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title: User:Shoaler


text:
Talk:Raffles Girls' School (Secondary)

Untitled
Deleted section reproduced below. Reason - out of context, poor explanation, POV.

Where's the school motto, vision and mission?? Motto: Filiae melioris aevi. Daughters of a better age. Vision: To aspire, strive and dare to be active creators of a better age for all. Mission: Nurturing the high ability girl to be a leader who will realise her talents in service of nation and community. Why isn't this on the main page? ~Kaylie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaylio (talk • contribs) 12:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Unique things
Unique among girls schools (at least in Singapore), RGS girls cheer in an artificially low voice, instead of the screams, shrieks squeals typical of the rest. A possibility is that they are trying to imitate their brother Rafflesians in Raffles Institution.

RGS girls also fold the sleeves of their blouses.

The significance (or otherwise) of this tradition is left to the reader to decide.''

Please feel free to edit and reinsert back into main article. Alex.tan 14:25, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

For one thing, the reason why RGS girls cheer in an low voice is because it is unique, and it won't be tiring. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaylio (talk • contribs) 11:51, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

It's back there again... I will delete this section. I scarcely think that RGS students' cheering and sexual orientation are of any note. -Hmib 17:34, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Just because a fact may be uncomfortable to some does not mean that it is not true. The reality is that RGS girls *do* cheer oddly. Whether or not this is included in Wikipedia does not change the fact that it does happen. We want a neutral tone, but that does not mean we should whitewash anything that might conceivably reflect badly on the school.

Wikipedia has lots of stuff that is uncomfortable to some. Autofellatio for example. The reasons I (and others) deleted the part about cheering in an artificial voice and the part about 'crushing' seniors, are -Hmib 04:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * non-notable. We don't care, nor do we want to know. It won't help a bit if we knew it. I could tell you about my sexual orientation, but do you want to know? Even if you do, is it notable enough to make it into an encyclopedia? (Is any of the information in here notable enough to make it into an encyclopedia? Who cares if RGS girls fold their sleeves? Who cares about half the stuff on Wikipedia?)
 * NPOV. I don't think girls from the other schools would take kindly to comments about their 'screeching'. Unless there is a video to prove it, the validity of that is in doubt.
 * the Singlish used by RGS girls does not pertain to this article. TCHS uses almost the exact same slangs (at least when I was there) so it's neither a distinguishing characteristic nor a notable characteristic. If anywhere, that should go under Singlish. Add a section called 'School slangs' if you want.

At the very least the excised information should be placed on the Talk page.

I notice the thing on people crushing their seniors has been removed. I agree that the names and details should be excised, but it *is* true (just as with cheering) that RGS girls crush their seniors (this is probably true in many other girls' schools). But I guess such unofficial information is not welcomed in Wikipedia so we shall be like a real encyclopedia and read like a press release from the school administration.

 * That is, incorrect. Please read WP:NOT. Feel free to include stuff that normally would not get included in an encyclopedia. We are (I think), for example, adding every town in the US. Paper encyclopedia would never have that. Furthermore, an entity like RGS would not even be considered in a paper encyclopedia, much less the sexual habits of the freshmen.

 * What makes that part inappropriate, in addition to what I already mentioned up there ^, is that it could possibly cause angry students/teachers/freshmen/seniors to protest at a perceived biasness. Such a fiasco has already occurred in the NYGH article, on romantic relations between NYGH and TCHS students (which, I must add, I have never been able to experience during my 3 years there, lol). Such inflammatory information, could easily turn into a minefield. Maybe I'm exaggerating stuff, but you get the gist of it, right?

If anything, you could perhaps add that section (skip the details though) to the page on Homosexuality in Singapore. -Hmib 04:45, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ｉwould like to make a note here. The school administration includes the low cheering in the orientation. Forget the bashing seniors. They are constantly telling us to cheer "lowder" (lower+louder=lowder). Thus, though the oddities are not necessary, Wikipedia itself should allow it. No one will tear after you screaming, "Change that part!" In fact, we are actually proud of it. Amurila 07:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, people who don't know anything about RGS but take it upon themselves to clean up what they see as suspicious content on Wikipedia do. So I suppose it'll remain one of those things everyone knows about but is not documented anywhere. Oh well. gssq 16:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I know Miborovsky this is almost a year old but in response to your comments about tbe bridge I thought I would cite the Sketchpad again because it's at least an urban legend that propagates if it doesn't happen too often. ;-) Elle vécut heureuse à jamais  (Be eudaimonic!) 13:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Shouldn't this be in the NYGH talk page instead? gssq 16:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 * What bridge? Oh that bridge? Well I've walked that bridge every (school) day for 3 years and never saw anything remotely like that. ;) -- Миборовский U 22:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Former PM Goh alluded to it: "Looking across the road at the new Nanyang Girls' High School, an idea struck me. I suggested to the Principal to hold joint activities between his boys and Nanyang Girls’. If his boys have girl friends in Singapore, that may pull them back to Singapore! But what if the girls too go overseas?" Former PM Goh Chok Tong, NDP rally speech 1999 gssq 23:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh, fine. :D I'm overseas as I didn't have a girlfriend in Singapore. ... OK that's not true. I did, but whatever. :) -- Миборовский U 23:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

still on cheering
What's a CMU? Alex.tan 16:15, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

CMU = Central Manpower Unit. Updating article to reflect this. B3virq3b 12:50, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

What is exactly wrong with RGS? Why are Singaporeans so fond of picking on the girls? I feel it is just the unique characteristics of an individual school, not oddities, so to speak of. The folding of sleeves, from what I heard, was started because initially, the old girls found the sleeves too long. Perhaps they wanted to feel cooler as the dark colour of the uniform and double layered clothing proved to be too hot for comfort. As for the low cheering, it is probably just a sort of identity that belongs to RGS. While all the other all-girls school cheer in a irritatingly high pitched voice, RGS does not. That is what sets it apart from the rest. Maybe as well known feminists, majority possess a low-pitched voice, therefore they prefer to cheer like that. Who knows? Anyway, it is pointless to keep on criticising an institution that you do not understand, simply because it is so well known and it gives you pleasure in doing so.

As an RGS girl, there is actually a little legend that we fold our sleeves because, back in the old days, folding your sleeves was considered a "gangster", rebellious kind of style. As such, so many girls were folding their sleeves to look cool that it kind of became a school tradition, and is now a school rule. (They can book you if your sleeves are unfolded!!) well, if you can't beat them, join them, right? also, uh- we aren't imitating RI! cheering in a lower pitch is one, more comfy, and two, allows you to cheer louder and stronger- however, our school song is incredibly high pitched. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.109.240.94 (talk) 10:38, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

not on cheering
Could someone check and see if the lyrics to the school song are copyrighted? The 'chosen out of a songbook' thing makes me nervous. --InShaneee 04:15, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Well it happens a lot with even more important songs. God Save the Queen for example. Besides the songbook should long have passed into the public domain (if it was even copyrighted) so there shouldn't be a problem. -Hmib 04:22, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ｐersonally, I don't really think so. I mean, we are quoting it everywhere and we sing it AND I think the lyrics are modified. So it does not really matter. As Hmib said, the songbook should long have passed into the public domain. Amurila 07:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Annabel Chong
Re: "revert; never heard of her" (Annabel Chong aka Grace Quek)

Guess what? I've never heard of Lim Hsiu Mei, Lim Soo Hoon, Judith Prakash, Leaena Tambyah or Siow Lee Chin either.
 * At least i have heard of Siow Lee Chin thanks to her performance during the 2001 NDP.--Huaiwei 11:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

I have given this topic a new section of its own seeing as to how Annabel Chong is rapidly appearing and disappearing from the article. To address the issue of knowing who she is, half the *world* knows who Annabel Chong is. There was even a feature film on her. To quote Gssq, though RGS & indeed Spore might wish to forget her, the fact is that Annabel Chong's more notable/famous than >half the people on the list, and recognised internationally too. With this in mind, could the users who keep removing her from the list please state your reasons for doing so? -ryan-d 11:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * From your infor, it seems that she is a little known in the porn industry, but irrelevant to anything else. --Vsion 12:35, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * How so irrelevant? If Annabel Chong is "a little known" in the porn industry but irrelevant to anything else, wouldn't Corrinne May similarly be "a little known" in the music industry but irrelevant to anything else? -ryan-d 17:06, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * One should note that out of the fifteen women listen under the Alumni section, Annabel Chong is one of the five who are actually famous enough to merit their own Wikipedia article. -165.21.154.13 17:30, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * She may be considered notable by porn-fans, and there are many wikipedians practicing porn-craft, but she is irrelevant in education-related article. --Vsion 22:06, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * The section in question has nothing to do with education, it's Notable Alumni, and Annabel Chong is one of the school's notable alumni. Her influence isn't merely restricted to the porn-arena. Back in the days when no one knew where Singapore was, three things put it on the map - Michael Fay, the ban on chewing gum, and Annabel Chong. She isn't merely one of the many porn stars out there, she was the first to have sex with 250+ men in a row. It put her on front pages on newpapers all around the world. She is, by all definitions, notable, not just by "porn-fans" but by the world in general. Again, I ask, how less relevant is the fame of a porn star as opposed to the fame of a singer or an actor? -ryan-d 05:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

 * If you cannot tell the difference between a porn-actress from a porn industry and a singer/actor in a general-public entertainment industry, I cannot help you. --Vsion 05:42, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

 * This discussion is going nowhere. I have referred the dispute to Third_opinion. -ryan-d 08:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I've never edited any article on Singapore, schools or pornography, but saw this on WP:3O so thought I'd offer my opinion. Annabel Chong is well known worlwide, with a quick look on Google showing over half a million hits for "annabel chong" and articles on well known mainstream news sites including CNN and the BBC.  Living in England, I've never heard of any of the other alumni listed and while AC is hardly a celebrity here, her name is known.  In terms of worldwide notability she probably deserves to be on that list more than anyone else who's there, and she is definitely more notable than the vast majority of people who don't have a biography on WP.

 * Born-again Christians and guardians of public morals may not like the idea of having a porn star listed in an article on a school, but Wikipedia is not censored so it would be wrong to exclude her on those grounds. It's also a violation of NPOV to leave her out solely because you don't approve of her when she's more notable than most/all of the people on the list.  [[Image:Yemen flag large.png|24px]] CTOAGN (talk) 12:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I respectfully disagree. Porn-related stuff get lots of bandwidths in Internet, Western media, etc. but that doesn't mean what Annabel is more notable than the others who are listed and who played more actual public roles than Annabel. The usual practice in all aspects of society is that porn stuff should remain in porn-related arena and kept away from mainstream. Since WP does not practice censorship, therefore her articles and others remain in WP. But still, we cannot deny that what Annabel did and what she is notable of are mainly of the prurient interests and placing her porn-related info into school article is inappropriate, lacks good taste, benefit nobody, and drive away young editors and readers. --Vsion 07:00, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

 * By all means, leave porn to the people who watch porn. But I would say that Annabel's influence extends beyond being porn-related. Her actions and behaviour have transcended that and thrown her into the mainstream. Also, I hardly think the information various editors have been trying to add to the article is "porn-related" and "inappropiate" and would "drive away young editors and readers". "Annabel Chong (born Grace Quek), web designer, artist and formerly a notorious porn star", as Slashme's edit read before you removed it, is one line of factual information that is unlikely to scar young readers for life. If anything, it provides a less porn-oriented view of the woman than previous edits have. -ryan-d 13:05, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, please explain what's her influence on you? --Vsion 13:12, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * One of interest and curiousity, being that she was once from one of the top schools in Singapore and ended up in the porn industry because of some beliefs in the feminist theory. I'm curious to know what kind of thinking inspired her little feat. However, I do not see the relevance of your question to the discussion at hand. -ryan-d 13:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the polite reply. I still don't see how someone can be notable enough to have a decent-length entry in Wikipedia but not notable to include in a list of school alumni.  I just don't think that putting her name in the list counts as "placing porn-related info into the article". If people were trying to introduce text about her career into the body of the article I would consider that inappropriate, but I don't see adding her name to the list as being the same thing, or how doing so would "drive away young readers".  While I think Slashme's examples of Hitler and Stalin are a bit extreme, I would also think that notable criminals would belong in a list of notable alumni if there was an article on their school (so the average shoplifter wouldn't qualify, for example, but someone like Nick Leeson would).  I don't think someone has to have set a good example to qualify for the list.  [[Image:Yemen flag large.png|24px]] CTOAGN (talk) 01:37, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

People can be notable without being worthy of imitation, and people can be influential without having a good influence. The fact remains that this article is not an advertisement for RGSS. It's supposed to be an encyclopedic article. To the general public outside Singapore, the most famous ex-student to come out of the school was Annabel Chong.

What is Annabel Chong's influence on the world? Well, she attempted (with debatable success) to use the porn industry to further the understanding of the different standards that are applied to men and women. She also used the porn industry to bring issues regarding gender issues into public debate. Although working for a period in an industry that is generally, and in many cases truthfully, regarded as degrading to women, she achieved high academic ideals. In the documentary that was made about her notorious exploits, she showed the bad along with the good, documenting the pain that she experienced when confronting her family, her old school and hence her previous "good girl" image. She also showed that while she was scarred by the experience, she engaged the traditional vices of society (drugs and porn) without being destroyed by them, and has now made a move to escape her previous notoriety by retreating into a traditional "productive" life.

She is (like Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Albert Einstein) more famous than her high school itself. --Slashme 13:43, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

 * You see, I was opened on this about her influence, but your statement above show that there is none, really. Her notability is restricted to what she did in porn and others' curiosity about it. Please take a look at Traci Lords, compare the two, see how Lords established her notability in the mainstream. --Vsion 14:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Many fallacies. One, my statement isn't representative of the other 8 billion + people in the world. Two, there is nothing wrong with being interested in the psychological aspect of what she did. Please read Slashme's paragraph above, there is a distinction between smut and the other aspects of Annabel Chong's influence. -ryan-d 15:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Some more information. Google search for:

 * ("Traci Lords" intellectual) — about 16,100 hits
 * ("Annabel Chong" intellectual) — about 20,900 hits

How can anyone seriously claim that "Annabel chong" is not famous when she has been written about in the New York Times on many occasions? After all, I'm famous, and I've never been featured there ;-)

--Slashme 05:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, as most of the dispute now seems to center around the alumni list, I have replaced the POV tag at the top of the article with a POV-section tag at the top of the alumni list. I hope this helps to address the concerns of the "Grace Quek is not famous" crowd :-) --Slashme 06:44, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Schools
Is this ever going to be added to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools the Schools project..? -anonymous person —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.156.6.59 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 11 October 2005

Annabel Chong (again)
It doesn't look like this is about to be resolved, so could I suggest taking it to the Mediation cabal? If that doesn't suit everyone, perhaps we could ask WikiProject Schools for their opinions? Seems pointless having people re-reverting each other. CTOAGN (talk) 00:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * For editors who do not otherwise contribute to schools articles, I wonder why are they so interested in listing a porn star here? Why help the porn industry to justify their trade in the mainstream when clearly they are not? I have no objection to what they put in porn-related articles, but please leave secondary school articles alone. Annabel has also retired, why are some guys still obsess about her? For goodness sake, leave her alone and MOVE ON, please. Porn industry is NOT about fame or notability, it is about exploitation, drugs, physical abuse and HIV. If you don't believe me, do the research yourself, and see how many thousands of young girls became victims of the industry. Please face the reality and don't be fooled by the industry's self-promotion, and through your actions help them. This article is about a serious education institution, leave those things out of here. --Vsion 01:13, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Assuming you're referring to me, I've already said why: one of the other editors listed this article on WP:3O to try and help resolve the issue. Also, my general dislike of censorship is another reason, and this looks like censorship to me.  You haven't answered my question, so let me rephrase it: is there any body of Wikipedians whose opinion you'd accept that we can put this matter to?  Because it doesn't look like this issue will sort itself out and it isn't good to see users making the same reverts every day. [[Image:Yemen flag large.png|24px]] CTOAGN (talk) 01:43, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * No, it is not censorship. The current disagreement is whether Annabel is notable in the mainstream. If she has accomplished similar to what Traci Lords did, then I would have no disagreement. My argument is that her "notability" is basically only restricted to the non-mainstream; the others counter by citing large Internet coverage and BBC and Times entertainment articles and that "they heard of her" as their reasons. I attribute these to aggressive promotion and image-manipulation by the industry, and disagree because Chong has done nothing notable (either good or bad) in the mainstream nor has her influence extends to mainstream. As for your suggestion, I need to think about it, as I never heard of Mediation cabal. I don't find it pointless to do the reverts; rather I'm curious what point the others are trying to made by inserting Chong into the list. --Vsion 03:03, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

The section is called "Notable alumnae". Grace Quek was without doubt an alumna of the school. The only question seems to revolve around her fame. That many people know who she is, is clearly not disputed, but what vsion seems to be claiming is that she is not famous "in the mainstream".

She was the subject of a documentary that was nominated for the grand jury prize at the Sundance Film Festival. She has been discussed (among others) in the New York Times, the Guardian, and on BBC and CNN. I read about her for the first time in a campus newspaper in South Africa. The documentary was shown worldwide. It is therefore quite unreasonable to claim that no-one outside the pornography world knows who she is. And is she only a pornstar? No. She is an accomplished academic, speaking eloquently on feminist issues. Let's compare her to (for example) Emma Yong. I can find no mention of her on the New York Times, CNN or BBC websites, and she seems to be pretty much unknown outside Singapore. As for Bukoh Mary, same story. Famous in Singapore, no doubt. Unknown elsewhere.

So, in conclusion, "Annabel Chong" is a well-known person, and an alumna of the school. Although the school might like to forget that she exists, this is not the school website. An encyclopedia is not only a collection of facts, but it must be at least a collection of facts, or it cannot be an encyclopedia. And the facts are that Grace Quek is a notable alumna of RGS. --Slashme 08:25, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * If she is an accomplished academic and serious feminist activist, I would have no objection. But your edits say that she is only a web designer, so am I missing something here? Or are you pushing it too much? If she is an academic, please show us an academic paper, or an advocate statement, she has written? If it is true, then it should be easily proven, and I will apologize for the reverts and we just need to reword the entry. But please point to us the reference. --Vsion 08:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I have reword the entry as according to Slashme's statement, and remove "notorious" since it is POV or unnecessary. I assume the references are forthcoming. --Vsion 08:54, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Maybe the word "academic" means different things to different people. The fact that she did graduate studies at USC makes her an accomplished academic.  I never claimed that she was a published academic, or that that was the reason that she was well known.  The point remains, though, that had she not had the ability to discuss her actions on an intellectual level, she would never have achieved the fame that she did from the documentary. --Slashme 13:11, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * According to Merriam-webster, academic is "a member of an institution of learning". Let's put that aside for a while. You also said that she "speaking eloquently on feminist issues"; so what are/were her agenda or what has/had she been advocating? --Vsion 15:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * (no response from others after two days) I'm surprised that the users who insist on inserting the Annabel name in the list, for whatever their reason, would on the other hand, tolerate the appalling inaccuracy in the entry, which say she is an academic when it is obvious now she is not. Apparently, you guys are not interested in the truth at all! With regards to her notability in mainstream, I'm not sure whether you are misleading others or you are the ones who were misled! --Vsion 01:40, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Like you, I was waiting for Slashme's response, but if you would take it as being not interested in the truth, that's fine by me. In response to your argument, I would note that the "appalling inaccuracy in the entry" you refer to, by which I take to mean the terms "academic" and "feminist political activist", was added by you, on November 17. The previous edit by Slashme only mentioned "web designer" and "artist". I don't presume to speak for Slashme, but personally, I've never mentioned anything about Annabel Chong being a "feminist political activist". In fact, I think the term used on Slashme's part was "speaking eloquently on feminist issues". This does not translate to being a "feminist political activist", per se. As for references, I believe the 1999 documentary on Annabel Chong has several scenes in which she speaks on feminist issues and gender roles.

 * From the discussion thus far, I'm of the impression that it's going to be hard to come to a compromise as is. May I suggest we take CTOAGN's advice and take the dispute to the Mediation cabal? Alternatively, I could post this dispute on WP:RfC. -ryan-d 06:11, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Since you can't speak for Slashme, then let's focus on what you (ryan-d) wrote. You wrote:
 * "Annabel's influence extends beyond being porn-related."
 * Her actions and behaviour have transcended that and thrown her into the mainstream
 * "... ended up in the porn industry because of some beliefs in the feminist theory"
 * "It put her on front pages on newpapers all around the world."
 * I'm really missing something here, these were not in Annabel Chong article; so, what are the references on which you based these comments on? What newspapers whose front pages are you refering to? What feminist issues, belief or agenda did Annabel holds/held, or discuss? What are her influences to ordinary people who don't watch porn? With these statements, you are suggesting certain facts but you didn't provide the reference. So, before we bring this to another party, let's clarify the facts first. If she is/was indeed a feminist activist, then I would agree she plays a public (mainstream) role, and we probably don't need further discussion. Again, my main objection here is that her insertion is basically porn-craft, and I would withdraw if shown otherwise. If you could describe, in more specific terms, what are her influence, action or behavior in the mainstream, it would be very helpful. But seriously, you have made the above statements to support your inserting of Annabel in the list, without providing the evidence. I hope you are not making these things up, just for the sake of winning an argument (or for attacking the school). --Vsion 15:02, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * One by one now.
 * "Annabel's influence extends beyond being porn-related." Reference: A non-porn documentary produced in 1999 that provides some insights into Annabel Chong's psyche; non-porn-fans having seen the documentary; non-porn-fans having heard of her; non-porn newspapers having featured her.
 * "Her actions and behaviour have transcended that and thrown her into the mainstream". Reference: Mainstream newspapers having featured her, documentary shown in mainstream cinema, et cetera.
 * "... ended up in the porn industry because of some beliefs in the feminist theory" Reference: Her attraction to porn, and extreme porn at that, is discussed at length by herself and others. 'A classmate says she did it because she was irritated by the "reverse patriarchy" of a "feminist theory class" that she felt was stifling female sexuality. Quek says she wants "to shake people up from all these stereotypes of women as sex objects," to "be a stud." She has a missionary’s zeal, at least in her words: "I’m at the age where I think I can change something." (taken from this site).
 * "It put her on front pages on newpapers all around the world." Reference: I admit I was exaggerating to make a point. But the general idea is factual - she has indeed appeared in several mainstream news sources around the world for what she did. See CTOAGN's first comment on this page.
 * I have already mentioned on your talk page that I have no interest in attacking the school. I will repeat that again. RGS was my sister school for four years, and I have several good friends who are/were from that school. There is absolutely no reason for me to want to attack the school. Nor do I think that adding Annabel Chong's name under the alumnae section constitutes an attack. Also, I am neither a fan of porn or of Annabel Chong, and I have contributed extensively to at least two school articles other than this one. Now, can we resolve this dispute without resorting to calling each other Nazis? I think Slashme's suggestion below is fair. -ryan-d 09:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Vsion, please don't take my insertion of Annabel Chong's name in the list of notable alumnae as an attack on RGS. I have no agenda in this regard.

Let me explain how I got involved in this discussion. I happened to be checking "recent changes" one day and noticed that someone had removed A.C. from the list of alumnae. I assumed that this was a whitewash, as I knew who she was (having seen the documentary in a mainstream cinema). Consequently I replaced her name on the list. Afterwards, I realized that there was some controversy on the issue, and read the talk page. I am a Wikipedia fan, not a porn fan. I didn't know who Traci Lords was until you brought her up as an example. As for A.C.'s intellectualism, In the documentary you see her taking part in the presidential debate at the Cambridge Union and a number of mainstream talk shows. It is anyone's right to form an opinion about the validity of her statements and arguments, but the fact is that you can't get much more mainstream than Cambridge. They didn't invite her to speak just because she was a pornstar, but also because she had something to say about gender issues.

But all that is just by the way. The fact remains that 1) she is an alumna of RGS and 2) she is famous. (and yes, Vsion, like it or not, even famous outside the porn industry!) Therefore, I am going to return her name to the list. An edit war is not a good solution, but I feel that a bowdlerised page is not good either. --Slashme 08:06, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I have now returned her to the list, and flagged the section as again. I feel that this is a reasonable compromise. I would also suggest keeping that tag in there even if you feel strongly enough to remove her name from the list. Everyone can now be aware of the existence of A.C., and also that her notability is questioned by the school's advocates. Is this fair, Vsion? --Slashme 08:23, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It would be more fair, if you guys could be more accurate in your arguments, as there were several instances already that you guys are stretching the facts (or "exaggerating") a bit. There are many mentions of her influence in mainstream, or her talking about gender issues, but so far there is no concrete suggestion of what are her agenda. (Response to ryan) Regarding the statement "Quek says she wants "to shake people up from all these stereotypes of women as sex objects", com' on guys... don't be naive, this is just promotional or a joke. I believed you guys have been misled about her influence on gender issues, and the industry trying to "intellectualize" porn in the mainstream. And if you take those illusions out, it is basically porn-craft. (Response to Slashme) Did you watch the documentary? if so, could you tell us more about the "presidential debate at the Cambridge Union"? --Vsion 15:55, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Whether or not Annabel Chong's stated reasons for producing porn are true and whether or not you think she's a sham has no bearing on whether or not she's notable in the mainstream. -ryan-d 16:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * If it has no bearing, why did you bother to bring it up as part of your argument for her notability ? Please make up your mind. --Vsion 06:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Because I felt that it provided evidence as to her notability in the mainstream. If you refuse to accept it and instead consider it to be a promotional or a joke, and us to be all misled pawns of the porn industry, you're entitled to your own opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that the evidence is there. I think I've said all I have to say for now. Further argument is pointless and will do nothing to help resolve this dispute, especially since you've been ignoring all requests do so via WP:DR. Please continue your discussion with Slashme. -ryan-d 07:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Vsion: Yes, I saw the documentary (once, a year or two ago). As I recall, she seemed nervous at the debate, but made sensible comments. They didn't show the whole debate, of course, just a short section. If I remember correctly, the point that she was making at the time was about the way society accepts some forms of expression as valid in men, but not in women. --Slashme 05:32, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the infor. The word "debate" is very vague. Was it an official discussion panel event, or just a group of students chatting among themselves? In other words, was it an official public event attended by university officials and faculty and had a sizable audience? And if you consider her a serious feminist activist (or at least a commentator), then we really should reword the entry, because that was a public role she played, hence more notable than being a web designer. --Vsion 06:00, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

It was a formal debate, but I can't remember whether it was attended by university officials and faculty. There was definitely a seated audience. Check out Cambridge Union Society for more information about the society that hosted it. It seems they have had some rather famous guests. Maybe someone reading this has seen the film more recently and can give a more informed comment on the debate scene? --Slashme 07:41, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm ... a formal debate? The editing must be good, because according to Quek, what she remembered was a bunch of very drunk students that day. --Vsion 09:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ghost Stories
I have added a part under history pertaining to ghost stories. Please feel free to add to the two there. Thank you. Amurila 07:54, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Rather unencyclopedic, move to "folktales" section for the time being. At the very least, it should not contain name of real person, because it might hurt some people. --Vsion 04:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Squash toilet ghost lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.123.4.202 (talk) 03:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Annabel Chong (not again!)
Never thought I'd have to come back to this dispute again. But in any case, "please be more consistent in your editing" is not a valid reason for removing Annabel Chong from the article. Let's try to be more civilized this time. Comments? - ryan  d  10:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Never really wanted to get involve in this Annabel Chong issue, but as I mentioned in the RJC page, the word "notable", according to the definition in Longman dictionary of comtemporary English, it mean "deserving to be noticed or given attention; important or excellent; outstanding: notable event/a notable improvement/Most of the directors are men, but Ms Parker is a notable exception." Thus it can be seen here that the word notable is used in a positive manner. I am not sure how a porn star, however famous, can be notable. Have anyone heard of phrases like "a notable pornstar", "a notable liar", or "a notable murderer"?

So ryand, make up your mind, if you want to insert AC in RGS page, others should be able to insert WSM name into RJC page. icecold1 14:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The word "notable" can in fact be used in a negative manner. All of the examples you gave are, if you ask any English linguist, valid. Also, I have already mentioned on the RJC talk page why the two issues are different, and I won't repeat it here. As Vsion has agreed (on our personal talk pages) to set aside the Annabel Chong issue for the time being, that's what we will do for now. - ryan  d  15:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Can't see why the 2 issues are different. If both are the students of the repective school, and both did something that are notable, then just put their name in. As simple as that.

By the way, thanks for pointing out the usage of notable. Learned something new here, although I still feel that using phares like "notable pornstar" is a little funny, but since it is vaild according to an English linguist, then just have to accept it. icecold1 03:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Edited the AC description to be in line with the presentation of WSM in RJC page. Ryand has still not revert why it shuld be his version that should stand until a consensus is attained. therefore, if there is no consensus, I presume other people's version should stand as well. icecold1 01:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 * You are essentially making no argument. If no consensus is attained, neither version can fully claim to be the "correct" one. At any rate, now that there is precedent (in the form of the Wee Shu Min incident on the RJC article), the current revision of the article (that includes Annabel Chong) is the preferred one. Please refrain from arguing for the sake of arguing, per WP:NOT. - ryan  d  19:27, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

 * You are essentially making no reply. You have still yet to answer my question on why it should be your version to stay if there is no consensus. I did not argue for the sake of arguing. It is because you keep on evading the question.icecold1 08:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Does ryand want me to edit what WSM is notable for in the RJC website? As I mentioned above, I edited it in line with WSM in RJC. ryand has also deleted the word "infamous" from WSM. WSM is indeed "infamous" for what she did, so what's the problem? You have still not reply to my question above on why it should always be your version to stay if there is no consensus. icecold1 06:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Let's separate the issues here:

 * Is she an alumna of RGS? - Yes. No debate here.
 * Is she famous? - Yes. This has been settled:  She appeared in a documentary that was shown worldwide, and has been discussed in the New York Times.  She even has her own WP page.
 * Is she notable? - That is a question of semantics. In the OED, the quotes seem divided on the issue.  There is a reference to "notable wounds of the head", and there is a quote that reads "They have also a cunning of ascribing effects to wrong causes... Austin tells us the Heathens were notable at this", but in another quote, Fuller (1662) says "You have mingled many Unworthies among them, rather Notorious than Notable" (rather appropriate!)
 * What is she to be listed for? - She is neither a notable web designer or artist, so if she must be in the list, she should be listed as a pornographic actress.

 * I know the school would rather forget about her existence, but the fact remains that many more people outside Singapore have heard about Annabel Chong than have heard about RGS, simply due to the media attention that she got. I am interested in this case, because it seems as if the other alumnae are trying to censor the article.

 * I see many references here to "WSM" and "RJC". Could someone please link to the relevant articles? --Slashme 08:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

 * What you had pointed out is very relevant, and I agree most of what you have written. However, the point is that ryand is not consistent in his edit. Why? because while he (I presume is a he as he said that he was from RI) wanted to list AC as pornograhic actress to attack RGS, but he do not want others to list WSM for what she had done. WSM is not famous because she is a blogger, she is famous because of her elitist remark. So, do you list her as something like "Wee Shu Min - ex-blogger famous for passing elitist remark" or something like that? Or for that matter, do you list our former President Devan Nair notable for being pressured to resign due to treatment for alcoholism (the joke that went round is that Nair is the short form for No Alcohol I Resign) ?By the way, I am not from RGS. icecold1 09:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Slashme: The articles in question are Wee Shu Min elitism scandal and Raffles Junior College.
 * Icecold1: First of all, you presume that I list Annabel Chong as a pornographic actress to attack RGS. Please assume good faith - I think most people would agree that the reason for Chong's notability is her stint as a pornographic actress. You have a valid point about Shu Min's notability - she is notable for the elitism scandal, and I will change the RJC article to reflect that (Devan Nair, on the other hand, was far more notable for being President of Singapore than he was for his alleged alcoholism). What I don't understand is why, instead of bringing up this issue on the RJC talk page, you choose instead to make a retaliatory edit on the RGS article. Nonetheless, I hope my edit on the RJC article resolves the issue. - ryan  d  11:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree on the revision on RJC. As for Devan Nair, I am not very sure as I cannot really recall his contribution as the President of Singapore that make him that notable. As far as my memory goes, he is more notable for the alleged alcoholism problem more than any other things. But who am I (we) to judge? Let the historian make the judgement. icecold1 04:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 10:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

(lots of)vandalism
to be frank. what happened? this page nearly belongs on uncyclopedia. there's a lot of vandalism, on the lower end of the page (see the 5Cs to name one) im not too sure about the motto (daughters of a vanished moon) because im entertaining the slight possibility of it being true. ill try and clean it up in a few days if no one beats me to it. Twinscimitars (talk) 12:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

read the page again. there seems to be a few references to r.a. Salvatore's work in the anthem. so... the mottos not real. there isn't really that much vandalism so this should be cleaned up in a bit. oh, and i think there are some POV issues here and there. to point one (fairly glaring one) out, the remark about the 'pagan' undertones. as i said, ill clean this up in a few days.Twinscimitars (talk) 12:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

yup it was vandalism and obviously nonsense. reverted. checked each revision for constructive edits -- there weren't any. Maeglin 14:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maeglin (talk • contribs)

Assessment
I have rated this article as mid importance for the Schools Project. It is possibly more important than is currently apparent from the existing article. You need to focus on adding references and removing trivia. I would imagine that there are probably many more alumnae than you have currently identified. Come back for a re-assessment when the article has been expanded and properly referenced. Dahliarose (talk) 15:02, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Raffles Girls' School (Secondary)


text:
Microtome

A microtome (from the Greek mikros, meaning "small", and temnein, meaning "to cut") is a cutting tool used to produce extremely thin slices of material known as sections, with the process being termed microsectioning. Important in science, microtomes are used in microscopy for the preparation of samples for observation under transmitted light or electron radiation.

Microtomes use steel, glass or diamond blades depending upon the specimen being sliced and the desired thickness of the sections being cut. Steel blades are used to prepare histological sections of animal or plant tissues for light microscopy. Glass knives are used to slice sections for light microscopy and to slice very thin sections for electron microscopy. Industrial grade diamond knives are used to slice hard materials such as bone, teeth and tough plant matter for both light microscopy and for electron microscopy. Gem-quality diamond knives are also used for slicing thin sections for electron microscopy.

Microtomy is a method for the preparation of thin sections for materials such as bones, minerals and teeth, and an alternative to electropolishing and ion milling. Microtome sections can be made thin enough to section a human hair across its breadth, with section thickness between 50 nm and 100 μm.

History
In the beginnings of light microscope development, sections from plants and animals were manually prepared using razor blades. It was found that to observe the structure of the specimen under observation it was important to make clean reproducible cuts on the order of 100 μm, through which light can be transmitted. This allowed for the observation of samples using light microscopes in a transmission mode.

One of the first devices for the preparation of such cuts was invented in 1770 by George Adams, Jr. (1750–1795) and further developed by Alexander Cummings. The device was hand operated, and the sample held in a cylinder and sections created from the top of the sample using a hand crank.

In 1835, Andrew Prichard developed a table based model which allowed for the vibration to be isolated by affixing the device to the table, separating the operator from the knife.

Occasionally, attribution for the invention of the microtome is given to the anatomist Wilhelm His, Sr. (1865). In his Beschreibung eines Mikrotoms (German for Description of a Microtome), Wilhelm wrote:

"The apparatus has enabled a precision in work by which I can achieve sections that by hand I cannot possibly create. Namely it has enabled the possibility of achieving unbroken sections of objects in the course of research."

Other sources further attribute the development to a Czech physiologist Jan Evangelista Purkyně. Several sources describe the Purkyne model as the first in practical use.

The obscurities in the origins of the microtome are due to the fact that the first microtomes were simply cutting apparatuses, and the developmental phase of early devices is widely undocumented.

At the end of the 1800s, the development of very thin and consistently thin samples by microtomy, together with the selective staining of important cell components or molecules allowed for the visualisation of microscope details.

Today, the majority of microtomes are a knife-block design with a changeable knife, a specimen holder and an advancement mechanism. In most devices the cutting of the sample begins by moving the sample over the knife, where the advancement mechanism automatically moves forward such that the next cut for a chosen thickness can be made. The section thickness is controlled by an adjustment mechanism, allowing for precise control.

Applications

The most common applications of microtomes are:
 * Traditional Histology Technique: tissues are fixed, dehydrated, cleared, and embedded in melted paraffin, which when cooled forms a solid block. The tissue is then cut in the microtome at thicknesses varying from 2 to 50 μm. From there the tissue can be mounted on a microscope slide, stained with appropriate aqueous dye(s) after removal of the paraffin, and examined using a light microscope.
 * Frozen section procedure: water-rich tissues are hardened by freezing and cut in the frozen state with a freezing microtome or microtome-cryostat; sections are stained and examined with a light microscope. This technique is much faster than traditional histology (5 minutes vs 16 hours) and is used in conjunction with medical procedures to achieve a quick diagnosis. Cryosections can also be used in immunohistochemistry as freezing tissue stops degradation of tissue faster than using a fixative and does not alter or mask its chemical composition as much.
 * Electron Microscopy Technique: after embedding tissues in epoxy resin, a microtome equipped with a glass or gem grade diamond knife is used to cut very thin sections (typically 60 to 100 nanometer). Sections are stained with an aqueous solution of an appropriate heavy metal salt and examined with a transmission electron microscope. This instrument is often called an ultramicrotome. The ultramicrotome is also used with its glass knife or an industrial grade diamond knife to cut survey sections prior to thin sectioning.  These survey sections are generally 0.5 to 1 μm thick and are mounted on a glass slide and stained to locate areas of interest under a light microscope prior to thin sectioning for the TEM.  Thin sectioning for the TEM is often done with a gem quality diamond knife.  Complementing traditional TEM techniques ultramicrotomes are increasingly found mounted inside an SEM chamber so the surface of the block face can be imaged and then removed with the microtome to uncover the next surface for imaging.  This technique is called serial block-face scanning electron microscopy (SBFSEM).
 * Botanical Microtomy Technique: hard materials like wood, bone and leather require a sledge microtome. These microtomes have heavier blades and cannot cut as thin as a regular microtome.
 * Spectroscopy (especially FTIR or infrared spectroscopy) Technique: thin polymer sections are needed in order that the infra-red beam can penetrate the sample under examination. It is normal to cut samples to between 20 and 100 μm in thickness. For more detailed analysis of much smaller areas in a thin section, FTIR microscopy can be used for sample inspection.

A recent development is the laser microtome, which cuts the target specimen with a femtosecond laser instead of a mechanical knife. This method is contact-free and does not require sample preparation techniques. The laser microtome has the ability to slice almost every tissue in its native state. Depending on the material being processed, slice thicknesses of 10 to 100 μm are feasible.

Sectioning intervals can be classified mainly into either:
 * Serial sectioning: obtaining a continuous ribbon of sections from a paraffin block and using all for slides.
 * Step sections: collected at specified depths in the block.

Sledge

A sledge microtome is a device where the sample is placed into a fixed holder (shuttle), which then moves backwards and forwards across a knife. Modern sled microtomes have the sled placed upon a linear bearing, a design that allows the microtome to readily cut many coarse sections. By adjusting the angles between the sample and the microtome knife, the pressure applied to the sample during the cut can be reduced. Typical applications for this design of microtome are of the preparation of large samples, such as those embedded in paraffin for biological preparations. Typical cut thickness achievable on a sledge microtome is between 1 and 60 μm.

Rotary

This instrument is a common microtome design. This device operates with a staged rotary action such that the actual cutting is part of the rotary motion. In a rotary microtome, the knife is typically fixed in a vertical position.

In the figure to the left, the principle of the cut is explained. Through the motion of the sample holder, the sample is cut by the knife position 1 to position 2, at which point the fresh section remains on the knife. At the highest point of the rotary motion, the sample holder is advanced by the same thickness as the section that is to be made, allowing the next section to be made.

The flywheel in many microtomes can be operated by hand. This has the advantage that a clean cut can be made, as the relatively large mass of the flywheel prevents the sample from being stopped during the sample cut. The flywheel in newer models is often integrated inside the microtome casing. The typical cut thickness for a rotary microtome is between 1 and 60 μm. For hard materials, such as a sample embedded in a synthetic resin, this design of microtome can allow good "semi-thin" sections with a thickness of as low as 0.5 μm.

Cryomicrotome

For the cutting of frozen samples, many rotary microtomes can be adapted to cut in a liquid-nitrogen chamber, in a so-called cryomicrotome setup. The reduced temperature allows the hardness of the sample to be increased, such as by undergoing a glass transition, which allows the preparation of semi-thin samples. However the sample temperature and the knife temperature must be controlled in order to optimise the resultant sample thickness.

Ultramicrotome

An ultramicrotome is a main tool of ultramicrotomy. It allows the preparation of extremely thin sections, with the device functioning in the same manner as a rotational microtome, but with very tight tolerances on the mechanical construction. As a result of the careful mechanical construction, the linear thermal expansion of the mounting is used to provide very fine control of the thickness.

These extremely thin cuts are important for use with transmission electron microscope (TEM) and serial block-face scanning electron microscopy (SBFSEM), and are sometimes also important for light-optical microscopy. The typical thickness of these cuts is between 40 and 100 nm for transmission electron microscopy and often between 30 and 50 nm for SBFSEM. Thicker sections up to 500 nm thick are also taken for specialized TEM applications or for light-microscopy survey sections to select an area for the final thin sections. Diamond knives (preferably) and glass knives are used with ultramicrotomes. To collect the sections, they are floated on top of a liquid as they are cut and are carefully picked up onto grids suitable for TEM specimen viewing. The thickness of the section can be estimated by the thin-film interference colors of reflected light that are seen as a result of the extremely low sample thickness.

Vibrating
The vibrating microtome operates by cutting using a vibrating blade, allowing the resultant cut to be made with less pressure than would be required for a stationary blade. The vibrating microtome is usually used for difficult biological samples. The cut thickness is usually around 30–500 μm for live tissue and 10–500 μm for fixed tissue.

Saw
The saw microtome is especially for hard materials such as teeth or bones. The microtome of this type has a recessed rotating saw, which slices through the sample. The minimal cut thickness is approximately 30 μm and can be made for comparatively large samples.

Laser

The laser microtome is an instrument for contact-free slicing. Prior preparation of the sample through embedding, freezing or chemical fixation is not required, thereby minimizing the artifacts from preparation methods. Alternately this design of microtome can also be used for very hard materials, such as bones or teeth, as well as some ceramics. Dependent upon the properties of the sample material, the thickness achievable is between 10 and 100 μm.

The device operates using a cutting action of an infrared laser. As the laser emits a radiation in the near infrared, in this wavelength regime the laser can interact with biological materials. Through sharp focusing of the probe within the sample, a focal point of very high intensity, up to TW/cm2, can be achieved. Through the non-linear interaction of the optical penetration in the focal region a material separation in a process known as photo-disruption is introduced. By limiting the laser pulse durations to the femtoseconds range, the energy expended at the target region is precisely controlled, thereby limiting the interaction zone of the cut to under a micrometre. External to this zone the ultra-short beam application time introduces minimal to no thermal damage to the remainder of the sample.

The laser radiation is directed onto a fast scanning mirror-based optical system, which allows three-dimensional positioning of the beam crossover, whilst allowing beam traversal to the desired region of interest. The combination of high power with a high raster rate allows the scanner to cut large areas of sample in a short time. In the laser microtome the laser-microdissection of internal areas in tissues, cellular structures, and other types of small features is also possible.

Knives
The selection of microtome knife blade profile depends upon the material and preparation of the samples, as well as the final sample requirements (e.g. cut thickness and quality).

Design and cut types

Generally, knives are characterized by the profile of the knife blade, which falls under the categories of planar concave, wedge shaped or chisel shaped designs.

Planar concave microtome knives are extremely sharp, but are also very delicate and are therefore only used with very soft samples. The wedge profile knives are somewhat more stable and find use in moderately hard materials, such as in epoxy or cryogenic sample cutting. Finally, the chisel profile with its blunt edge, raises the stability of the knife, whilst requiring significantly more force to achieve the cut.

For ultramicrotomes, glass and diamond knives are required, the cut breadth of the blade is therefore on the order of a few millimetres and is therefore significantly smaller than for classical microtome knives. Glass knives are usually manufactured by the fracture of glass bars using special "knife-maker" fracturing devices. Glass knives may be used for initial sample preparations even where diamond knives may be used for final sectioning. Glass knives usually have small troughs, made with plastic tape, which are filled with water to allow the sample to float for later collection. Diamond blades may be built into such an existing trough, allowing for the same collection method.

Sectioning
Prior to cutting by microtome, biological materials are usually placed in a more rigid fixative, in a process known as embedding. This is achieved by the inflow of a liquid substance around the sample, such as paraffin (wax) or epoxy, which is placed in a mold and later hardened to produce a "block" which is readily cut.

The declination is the angle of contact between the sample vertical and knife blade. If the knife blade is at right angles (declination=90) the cut is made directly using a pressure based mode, and the forces are therefore proportionally larger. If the knife is tilted, however, the relative motion of the knife is increasingly parallel to sample motion, allowing for a slicing action. This behaviour is very important for large or hard samples

The inclination of the knife is the angle between the knife face and the sample. For an optimal result, this angle must be chosen appropriately. The optimal angle depends upon the knife geometry, the cut speed and many other parameters. If the angle is adjusted to zero, the knife cut can often become erratic, and a new location of the knife must be used to smooth this out.

If the angle is too large, the sample can crumple and the knife can induce periodic thickness variations in the cut. By further increasing the angle such that it is too large one can damage the knife blade itself.

title: Microtome


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Usui Masato

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 09:04, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Usui Masato
No such person exists. No search results for "Usui Masato" and "Usui d Channel" 60.34.4.117 14:27, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Delete. Trilobite (Talk) 15:24, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, some sort of an ad. Wyss 18:52, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, possible vanity. Megan1967 05:21, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, although perhaps to say "No such person exists" is a bit sweeping! Peter Shearan 15:58, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - ...and not because I don't think he/she exists -- Longhair 18:24, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text: Category:Peruvian writers

title: Category:Peruvian writers


text:
Yakovlev Yak-19

The Yakovlev Yak-19 (Russian: Як-19, USAF/DOD designation Type 7) was a prototype Soviet fighter built in the late 1940s. It was the first Soviet aircraft to be equipped with an afterburning turbojet, the Klimov RD-10F that was derived from the German Jumo 004 engine. Only two examples were built as it was rejected for service by the Soviet Air Force.

Development and description
In April 1946, the Council of People's Commissars ordered several design bureaux (OKB Опытное конструкторское бюро – Opytnoye Konstruktorskoye Buro), included that of Alexander Yakovlev, to develop a single-seat jet fighter to be equipped with a single Lyulka TR-1 turbojet engine. The aircraft should have a maximum speed of 850 km/h at sea level and a speed of 900 km/h at an altitude of 5000 m. It should be able to climb to that altitude in 3.8 minutes or less and should have a maximum range of no less than 700 km. Yakovlev and his team were well aware that any derivative of their earlier Yak-15 and Yak-17 fighters, then under development, could not reach the required speed because of their thick wings and chose to begin a "clean-slate" design. Preliminary work used the same "pod-and-boom" layout as had been used in the earlier Yakovlev designs, although the cockpit was located in front of the engine. The TR-1 engine was plagued by delays and Yakovlev devoted most of his efforts to designs that used the RD-10.

By late June, Yakovlev had decided to use a more aerodynamically efficient "tubular" layout with the engine buried in the center of the fuselage. After it became clear that neither the TR-1, nor the imported British Rolls-Royce Nene or Rolls-Royce Derwent engines would be available to power the prototypes, Yakovlev settled on the newly available afterburning version of the RD-10. The first prototype was ordered to a very demanding schedule and was completed on 29 November 1946.

The Yak-19 had a flattened oval-shaped, metal semi-monocoque fuselage with the single-seat cockpit and its teardrop-shaped canopy positioned just forward of the 1100 kgf axial-flow RD-10F turbojet engine. Its air intake was in the nose and the afterburner was positioned at the rear of the fuselage, just below the tail structure. Fitted with tricycle landing gear, the main landing gear retracted inwards into the fuselage while the nose gear retracted forwards. The laminar-flow, two-spar, straight wing was mounted in the middle of the fuselage. It was equipped with modified Fowler flaps and Frise ailerons. The rudder was split into two sections by the horizontal stabilizers; the upper portion was fabric-covered while the lower half was metal-skinned. The pilot was protected by a bulletproof windscreen, a forward armor plate and an armored seat back. In addition, he was provided with an ejection seat. The Yak-19 was equipped with four fuel tanks in the fuselage that had a total capacity of 650 kg of fuel. It was armed with two 23 mm Nudelman-Suranov NS-23 autocannon, each with 70 rounds.

Testing
The day after the first prototype was completed, it was trucked to Khodynka Field to begin taxiing trials. On 12 December it caught fire when a defective fuel gasket blew out; the repairs took a fortnight. Immediately before its maiden flight, a pair of experimental 23 mm Shpitalny Sh-3 autocannon replaced the NS-23s. It first flew on 8 January 1947 with Lieutenant Colonel Mikhail Ivanov, at the controls, although he was not the primary test pilot. The Yak-19 was grounded from 2 March to 18 May as it awaited a new engine. On 21 May, the afterburner was tested in flight for the first time. While the fighter was the first Soviet aircraft to be equipped with an afterburner, it was not the first one to use one in flight as the Aircraft 156 had done so over a month earlier. The second prototype first flew on 6 June and was almost identical with the first prototype. Changes included five degrees of dihedral to the horizontal stabilizer, a slightly revised vertical stabilizer and plumbing for a pair of 195 L drop tanks underneath the wingtips. This increased the fighter's total fuel load to 980 kg.

During the manufacturer's flight tests, the Yak-19 became the first Soviet aircraft to exceed 900 km/h. Major Sergei Anokhin was the primary test pilot and reported that the aircraft had pleasant and predictable flying characteristics and presented no difficulties for the average pilot. Before the testing was completed, Anokhin led the jets participating in the flypast at Tushino Airfield on 3 August.

State acceptance tests began on 17 October, using the second prototype, and finished on 30 January 1948. The group of military test pilots concluded that the afterburner was unreliable and the aircraft was difficult to control in roll. Other complaints were focused on the cockpit; it was deemed was too small and lacked sufficient armor and heating or ventilation. They decided that the Yak-19 could not be recommended for service. Rather than modify the aircraft to address these problems, Yakovlev chose to cancel it entirely in favor of designs using the more-powerful (1500 kgf) Rolls-Royce Derwent-derived Klimov RD-500, like his Yak-23 and Yak-25 fighters then under development.

title: Yakovlev Yak-19


text: Category:Peruvian economists

title: Category:Peruvian economists