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Francis de Sales

Francis de Sales, C.O., O.M. (François de Sales; Francesco di Sales; 21 August 1567 – 28 December 1622) was a Savoyard Catholic prelate who served as Bishop of Geneva and is a saint of the Catholic Church. He became noted for his deep faith and his gentle approach to the religious divisions in his land resulting from the Protestant Reformation. He is known also for his writings on the topic of spiritual direction and spiritual formation, particularly the Introduction to the Devout Life and the Treatise on the Love of God.

Early years
Francis de Sales was born two months premature on 21 August 1567 in the Château de Sales into the noble Sales family of the Duchy of Savoy, in what is today Thorens-Glières, Haute-Savoie, France. His father was François de Sales, Lord of Sales, and Novel, and by marriage, de Boisy. His mother was a noblewoman, Françoise de Sionnaz, the only child of the prominent magistrate, Melchior de Sionnaz, Seigneur de Vallières, de la Thuile, and de Boisy. This being one of the noblest families in Savoy, Francis's father was generally known as M. de Boisy.

He was baptized Francis Bonaventura after his godparents, François de la Fléchère and Damoiselle Bonaventure de Chevron-Villette, who was also his widowed, maternal grandmother. His father wanted him, the first of his six sons, to attend the best schools in preparation for a career as a magistrate. He, therefore, enjoyed a privileged education in the nearby town of La Roche-Sur-Foron, and at the age of eight at the Capuchin college in Annecy.

Education and self-consecration
In 1578, de Sales went to the Collège de Clermont, then a Jesuit institution, to study rhetoric and humanities. On this first visit to Paris, he lived near the Église Sainte-Geneviève with his three cousins. As a nobleman, he was accompanied by his servant and by a priest tutor, Abbé Déage. To please his father, he took lessons in the gentlemanly pursuits of riding, dancing, and fencing. De Sales is described as intelligent and handsome, tall and well built with blue-grey eyes, somewhat reserved and quiet, and a welcome guest in the homes of the nobility among whom his father had connections.

In 1586, Francis de Sales attended a theological discussion about predestination that convinced him of his damnation to hell. A personal crisis of despair resulted. That conviction lasted through December 1586. His great despair made him physically ill and even bedridden for a time. Sometime in either late December or early January 1587, he visited the old parish of Saint-Étienne-des-Grès, Paris, where he prayed the "Memorare" before a famed statue of Our Lady of Good Deliverance, a Black Madonna. He consecrated himself to the Blessed Virgin Mary and decided to dedicate his life to God with a vow of chastity. He then became a tertiary of the Minim Order.

De Sales ultimately concluded that God had good in store for him because "God is love", as the First Epistle of John attests. This faithful devotion to God not only expelled his doubts but also influenced the rest of his life and his teachings. His way of teaching Catholic spirituality is often referred to as the Way of Divine Love, or the Devout Life, taken from a book he wrote of a similar name: Introduction to the Devout Life.

De Sales completed his studies at Collège de Clermont and enrolled at the University of Padua, in Italy, where he studied both law and theology. He was accompanied by his twelve-year-old brother, Gallois, also a student in Padua. De Sales took Antonio Possevino, a priest in the Society of Jesus, as his spiritual director.

Return to Savoy
In 1592, de Sales received his doctorate in law and theology and made up his mind to become a priest. He made a pilgrimage to Loreto, Italy, famous for its Basilica Della Santa Casa (Shrine of the Holy House) and then returned home to Savoy. As the eldest son and heir, he held the title of Seigneur de Villeroget. The Senate of Chambéry admitted him as a lawyer. Meanwhile, his father secured various positions for Francis, including an appointment as a senator. His father also chose a wealthy noble heiress as his bride, but Francis refused to marry, preferring to stay focused on his chosen path. His father initially refused to accept that Francis had chosen the priesthood rather than fulfill his expectations with a political-military career. His cousin, Canon Louis de Sales, persuaded the Bishop of Geneva, Claude de Granier, to obtain for Francis the position of provost of the cathedral chapter of Geneva, a post in the patronage of the pope. It was the highest office in the diocese; M. de Boisy yielded. After signing over to his younger brother, Louis, his title and right of succession, Francis was ordained in 1593.

Priest and provost
Because the Calvinists controlled Geneva, the bishop resided about twenty miles south, in Annecy. De Sales preached in the Cathedral of Annecy, at parish churches and before confraternities. He was an effective speaker; his voice was deep and rich in tone and his speech somewhat slow and measured. His sermons were comparatively short and without the customary displays of erudition. He avoided controversy and focused on a particular point of duty, a specific virtue or the correction of some vice. The cathedral chapter recommended that although he was only twenty-seven years of age, the provost be named Grand Penitentiary of the diocese, with the result that de Sales found himself taking many more confessions.

Chamblais
In 1594, the Duke of Savoy requested the bishop of Geneva to send a missionery to Chamblais, an area that had been long held by the Swiss and only recently returned to Savoy. The task would be both difficult and dangerous, and the most qualified for the assignment was the provost. Despite his family's objections, de Sales readily accepted. Accompanied only by his cousin, the Canon Louis, they made their base the fortress of Allinges to which the Governor of the Province, Baron d'Hermance, insisted they return each night. Gradually they expanded their efforts, with de Sales concentrating on Thonon-les-Bains, which had become almost completely Calvinist. He also attended the Savoyard soldiers garrisoned at Allinges.

They met great opposition from the Geneva ministers, who accused de Sales of being a sorcerer. He moved to Thonon, where he boarded with a widow, who on one occasion hid him from some armed men. More than once, he escaped death at the hands of assassins. His mother managed to send him some linen and money, which he distributed to the poor. A good deal of his religious instruction was handled individually and privately. It was at this time that Francis began writing pamphlets which were later collected and published as The Catholic Controversy. Gradually, the mission began to show some small success.

In 1599 he was appointed coadjutor bishop of Geneva. In 1602, he was sent on a diplomatic mission to Henry IV of France to negotiate the restoration of Catholic worship in Gex, a part of the diocese that had been returned to France. He was invited to give the Lenten sermons at the Chapel Royal. The morals at court reflected those of the King, which were notorious, but King Henry became personally attached to Francis and is said to have observed, "A rare bird, this Monsieur de Genève, he is devout and also learned; and not only devout and learned but at the same time a gentleman. A very rare combination".

While in Paris, he also met Cardinal Berulle and Madame Acarie. They consulted with him on matters such as the introduction of Teresa of Ávila's Carmelites into France and plans for the reforming of monasteries and convents. He was consulted on matters of conscience by persons at court.

Bishop of Geneva
In 1602, Bishop Granier died, and Sales was consecrated Bishop of Geneva by Vespasien Gribaldi, assisted by Thomas Pobel and Jacques Maistret, O.Carm., as co-consecrators. He resided in Annecy (now in France) because Geneva remained under Calvinist control and was therefore closed to him. His diocese became famous throughout Europe for its efficient organization, zealous clergy and well-instructed laity, an achievement in those days.

He worked closely with the Order of Friars Minor Capuchin, which was very active in preaching the Catholic faith in his diocese. It appreciated his cooperation so much that in 1617 it made him an official associate of the Order, the highest honour possible for a non-member. It is said that at Evian, on the south shore of Lake Geneva, Francis of Assisi appeared to him and said: "You desire martyrdom, just as I once longed for it. But, like me, you will not obtain it. You will have to become an instrument of your own martyrdom". During his years as bishop, de Sales acquired a reputation as a spellbinding preacher and something of an ascetic. His motto was, "He who preaches with love, preaches effectively". His goodness, patience and mildness became proverbial.

Author
These last qualities come through in de Sales' books, the most famous of which was Introduction to the Devout Life, which, unusually for the time, was written for laypeople, especially for women. In it, he counseled charity over penance as a means of progressing in the spiritual life. De Sales also left a mystical work, the Treatise on the Love of God, and many highly valued letters of spiritual direction, including those with Jane Frances de Chantal compiled in the Letters of Spiritual Direction.

Founder
Along with Chantal, de Sales founded the women's Order of the Visitation of Holy Mary (Visitandines) in Annecy on 6 June 1610. Archbishop Denis-Simon de Marquemont required the order's members to maintain cloistered lives.

Sales also established a community of men, an Oratory of St. Philip Neri, at Thonon-les-Bains, with himself as the superior, or Provost. That work, however, was crippled by his death, and that foundation soon died out.

Death
In December 1622, de Sales was required to travel in the entourage of Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy, for the Duke's Christmas tour of his domain. Upon arrival in Lyon, de Sales chose to stay in the gardener's hut at the Visitandine monastery in that city. While there he suffered a stroke, from which he died on 28 December 1622.

Posthumous veneration
De Sales has been styled "the Gentleman Saint" because of his patience and gentleness. His autopsy revealed many gallstones. Despite the resistance of the populace of Lyon to moving his remains from that city, he was buried on 24 January 1623 in the church of the Monastery of the Visitation in Annecy, which he had founded with Chantal, who was also buried there. Their remains were venerated there until the French Revolution. Many miracles have been reported at his shrine.

His heart was kept in Lyon, in response to the popular demand of the citizens of the city to retain his remains. During the French Revolution, however, it was saved from the revolutionaries by being carried by the Visitation nuns from Lyons to Venice.

De Sales was beatified in 1661 by Pope Alexander VII, who then canonized him four years later. De Sales was declared a Doctor of the Church by Pope Pius IX in 1877.

The Roman Catholic Church celebrates de Sales' feast on 24 January, the day of his burial in Annecy in 1624. From 1666, when his feast day was inserted into the General Roman Calendar to its 1969 revision, it was celebrated on 29 January.

Francis is remembered in the Church of England with a Lesser Festival on 24 January. In 2022, Francis de Sales was officially added to the Episcopal Church liturgical calendar with a feast day shared with Jane Frances de Chantal on 12 December.

Patronage
In 1923, Pope Pius XI proclaimed him a patron of writers and journalists because de Sales made extensive use of broadsheets and books in spiritual direction and in his efforts to convert the Calvinists of the region. Sales developed a sign language to teach a deaf man about God. That has made him the patron saint of the deaf.

Having been founded as one of the first non-cloistered group of sisters, after attempts had been with the Visitation Sisters founded by de Sales and de Chantal, the Sisters of St. Joseph (founded in Le Puys, France, in 1650) take de Sales as one of their patrons. The Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales, founded by the Abbé Pierre Mermier in 1838, were the first Religious congregation to adopt his spirituality in the 19th century.
 * The religious institute of the Salesians of Don Bosco, founded by John Bosco in 1859 (approved by the Holy See in 1874), is also known as the Society of Saint Francis de Sales, and is placed under his patronage.
 * The Oblate Sisters of St. Francis de Sales were founded by Léonie Aviat and Louis Brisson, under the spiritual guidance of the Marie de Sales Chappuis in 1866. The Oblates of St. Francis de Sales order for men was later founded by Brisson, also under the guidance of Marie de Sales, in 1875.
 * The Congregation of the Oratory of St. Philip Neri count him as one of their patrons, given his close association with St. Philip Neri's disciples and his founding of the Oratory in Thonon, France (now defunct), of which he was the first superior.
 * The Paulist Fathers in the United States count him.

Congregations
In the 19th century, his vision for religious communities was revived. Several religious institutes were founded during that period for men and women desiring to live out the spiritual path that de Sales had developed.
 * The Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales (MSFS), founded by the Abbé Pierre Mermier in 1838, were the first congregation to adopt his spirituality in the 19th century.
 * The religious institute of the Salesians of Don Bosco (SDB), founded by John Bosco in 1859 (approved by the Holy See in 1874), is also known as the Society of Saint Francis de Sales, and is placed under his patronage.
 * The Oblate Sisters of St. Francis de Sales (OSFS) were founded by Léonie Aviat and Louis Brisson, under the spiritual guidance of the Marie de Sales Chappuis in 1866.
 * The Oblates of St. Francis de Sales (OSFS) order for men was later founded by Brisson, also under the guidance of Marie de Sales, in 1875.
 * The Paulist Fathers in the United States count him as one of their patrons.

The Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, a society of priests founded in the 20th century, also has Francis de Sales as one of its three primary patrons. One of the major apostolates of the Institute in the United States is the Oratory of St. Francis de Sales in St. Louis, Missouri.

Influence on other saints
In 1618 or 1619 Vincent de Paul met in Paris Francis de Sales, whose spirituality and writings, especially An Introduction to the Devout Life, and Treatise on the Love of God, were to have a profound influence on Vincent.

His writings on the perfections of the heart of Mary as the model of love for God influenced John Eudes to develop the devotion to the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

Educational institutions

 * St. Francis de Sales School, Newark, Ohio
 * St Francis College, Letchworth Garden City, Hertfordshire, England
 * St. Francis de Sales Catholic Junior School, Liverpool, England
 * School of Sacred Heart St. Francis de Sales, Bennington, Vermont
 * St. Francis de Sales Catholic School, Toronto, ON, Canada
 * St Francis De Sales Catholic School, Houston, TX
 * St. Francis de Sales Catholic School Riverside CA
 * St. Francis de Sales Catholic School, Lake Zurich, IL
 * St. Francis de Sales School, Morgantown, WV, United States
 * St Francis de Sales School, Beckley, West Virginia
 * St Francis de Sales School, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
 * St. Francis de Sales Catholic High School, Walla Walla, Washington
 * DeSales High School in Louisville, Kentucky
 * DeSales University, located in Center Valley, Pennsylvania (formerly Allentown College of St. Francis de Sales)
 * Mount de Sales Academy, Catonsville, Maryland
 * Mount de Sales Academy, Georgia
 * Saint Francis de Sales Seminary Milwaukee, Wisconsin
 * Salesianum School, Wilmington, DE, United States
 * St. Francis DeSales High School in Columbus, OH, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales High School in Chicago, IL, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales High School in Toledo, OH, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales College, in Mount Barker, South Australia, Australia
 * St. Francis de Sales – St. Stephen School, in Geneva, NY, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales School, in Nagpur, India, managed by the Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales
 * St. Francis de Sales School, in New Delhi, India, managed by the Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales
 * St. Francis de Sales School, in Gangapur City, India, managed by the Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales
 * St.Francis De sales School, in Nallasopara, India, managed by the Missionaries of St.Francis de Sales
 * St. Francis de Sales School, in Dhemaji, India, managed by the Missionaries of St. Francis de Sales
 * St. Francis de Sales School, Nizamabad, Telangana, India.
 * St. Francis de Sales School (Wellington, New Zealand)
 * St. Francis de Sales High School, Francis Nagar, Korutla
 * St. Francis de Sales School for the Deaf in Brooklyn, New York
 * St. Francis de Sales College, in Nagpur, India
 * The three seminary departments in the Archdiocese of Lipa are named after St. Francis de Sales (St. Francis de Sales Minor, Major, and Theological Seminary)
 * St Francis de Sales College, Bengaluru, India
 * SFS Public School and Junior College, Kerala(Ettumanoor), India
 * St. Francis de Sales elementary school, Lake Geneva, WI, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales School, Salisbury, MD, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales Regional Catholic School, Herkimer, NY, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales Catholic School, Lockport, NY, United States (formerly St. Francis de Sales High School)
 * St. Francis de Sales School, Sherman Oaks, CA, United States
 * St. Francis Sales Senior Secondary School, Kerala (Vizhinjam), India
 * St. Francis De Sales, Guwahati, Assam, India

Others

 * St. Francis de Sales Parish, Newark, Ohio
 * St. Francis De Sales and All Souls, Devonport. Auckland, New Zealand
 * The island of St. François Atoll
 * Saint Francis Hospital & Medical Center in Hartford, CT, United States.
 * St. Francis de Sales Broadcast Center in Batangas City, Philippines houses two radio stations under the Catholic Media Network: 99.1 Spirit FM and ALFM 95.9 Radyo Totoo
 * St. Francis de Sales Roman Catholic Church
 * St. Francis de Sales Roman Catholic Church (Charlestown, Mass.)
 * St Francis de Sales Roman Catholic Church (Purcellville, Virginia)
 * St. Francis de Sales Roman Catholic Church, Morgantown, WV, United States
 * St. Francis de Sales Church (Norton Shores, Michigan), Norton Shores, MI, United States
 * St Francis de Sales, Hampton Hill and Upper Teddington
 * St. Francis De Sales Catholic Church, Ajax, Ontario, Canada

Works

 * Introduction to the Devout Life Frederick Pustet & Co. (192X)
 * Set Your Heart Free Readings from De Sales
 * Spiritual Conferences from Oblates of St. Francis de Sales
 * An Abridgment of the Interior Spirit of the Religious of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary George Templeman (1834)
 * The Mystical Flora of St. Francis de Sales; or, The Christian Life Under the Emblem of Plants M.H. Gill & Son (1877)
 * Maxims and Counsels of St. Francis de Sales for Every Day in the Year M.H. Gill & Son(1884)
 * Of the Love of God Rivington's (1888)
 * The Secret of Sanctity, According to St. Francis de Sales and Father Crasset, S.J. Benziger Brothers (1893)
 * Letters to Persons of the World Benziger Brothers (1894)
 * The Catholic Controversy Burns and Oates (1909)
 * Letters to Persons in Religion Burns and Oates (1909)

title: Francis de Sales


text:
User:Molily

 * [mailto:molily@mailbox.org E-Mail]
 * molily.de

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Molily


text: User talk:68.235.4.242

title: User talk:68.235.4.242


text:
Lake Land College

Lake Land College is a public community college in Mattoon, Illinois. It was founded in 1966. As of the Fall 2022 semester Lake Land serves 3,742 students, mainly from the east-central Illinois region. The 308 acre campus has seven major buildings plus eight supportive buildings, two campus ponds, and a 160 acre agriculture land laboratory.

History
Lake Land's creation was first approved in 1966 by a referendum in 13 public school districts centered on Mattoon. The first classes were held the following year in various buildings throughout the town. The first president of the college was Virgil H. Judge (who was the father of Darrell L. Judge). Construction on the college began in 1971 and continued in phases throughout the 1970s.

Academic programs at Lake Land College include Agriculture; Allied Health; Business; Humanities; Math & Science; Technology and Social Science & Education. Other coursework programs include the Cisco Networking Academy, Computer Troubleshooting, Physical Therapist Assistant, Desktop Publishing Graphic Design, Radio-TV Broadcasting, Raster Geographic Information Systems, and Psychiatric Rehabilitation. Lake Land College also recently started an ROTC program. Over 150 courses are offered online.

Athletics
Lake Land College sponsors teams in two men's and three women's NJCAA sanctioned sports: The Lakers have won one NJCAA National Championship which happened in 2021. The women's basketball team finished 24–2 and defeated Johnson County Community College 53–49 to win their first national championship. The Lakers have had several trips to the NJCAA National Tournament. The Lakers are known for making runs within the Great Rivers Athletic Conference (GRAC), and Region 24 Tournaments. The most successful programs at Lake Land are softball and women's basketball, particularly for their high number of NJCAA National Tournament Appearances.

The majority of Lake Land Athletics are played at Laker Fieldhouse. Laker Fieldhouse plays host to Women's Basketball, Men's Basketball, and Women's Volleyball matches. Lake Land has other facilities used for baseball and softball matches, which are officially named Laker Baseball Field and Laker Softball Field.

Transportation
Dial-A-Ride Rural Public Transportation provides deviated fixed-route and demand-response service to campus. Connections are available to Mattoon station, from where Amtrak provides service north towards Chicago, or south towards Carbondale and New Orleans.

Athletes

 * Gary Gaetti, retired MLB All-Star third baseman
 * Rex Morgan, former NBA player for the Boston Celtics
 * Victor Snipes, NCAA season steals leader in 1992

Politics

 * Darren Bailey, member of the Illinois House of Representatives
 * Brad Halbrook, member of the Illinois House of Representatives

title: Lake Land College


text:
User talk:Antandrus/Archive2

Archive #2 from my talk page: November 2004 to mid-February 2005

Vogl, Britannica
Hi Antandrus--

Nice Vogl article! Hoping it's true, I added in the Fidelio bit. Perhaps Schubert was buying up all the Vogl tickets he could afford...

I also enjoyed your comments about the 1911 edition, particularly the bits about chewing gum and Tovey scribbling frantically on the back of an envelope. So hopefully we feel mutually encouraged to edit this stuff liberally.

Cheers, Opus33 21:23, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi Antandrus, and thanks for the note. I've had an enforced break from Wikipedia for a bit, but hope to return to regular editing in a few days. I expect I'll look at some music articles as part of that - must admit, when I stuck my head in here today I looked at a lot of arbitration stuff, which depressed me a bit; but then I stumbled across a few new music articles which cheered me up a bit :) Great to see you and Opus are still around - hope to join you soon. --Camembert

Etcetera
<>

Hello Antandrus. Wasn't sure whether this page is open to all comers to make changes or not, so thought I'd be discrete and just mention one spelling error (virtuoso, not virtuouso). I've always been fascinated by Alkan, and wonder if you can verify either way the story about the bookshelf and the Talmud. I recently heard/read somewhere that this is apocryphal. Cheers from down under JackofOz 21:44, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Admin vote
Thank you for supporting my nomination for adminship. It means a great deal to me.

Also - that vista image on your user page is beautiful! I'm assuming you took that?

Thanks again, ClockworkTroll 06:04, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

VfA
Posted on User:ClockworkTroll

You're welcome! And thanks for the compliment on the photo (it's a pretty view from up there, after a stiff climb). I've been noticing your work for a while and I think it's superb--keep it up! Best wishes and happy editing, Antandrus 06:07, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm flattered, thank you! Do you mind if I ask which work you've noticed? I always like to know what the highest profile edits are, so I can put some emphasis on them. ClockworkTroll 06:12, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Certainly: what I really like is your interactions with other users, especially welcoming newcomers; your attention to VfD, which is a slum and avoided by many (including me sometimes... but I think it is a bit of a duty for us to labor in such unsavory locales from time to time); and also I just like your positive attitude.  It's one of my favorite soapboxes too that people here don't spend enough time noticing the good work of others.  Hope that answers your question!  :-) Happy editing, Antandrus 06:22, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * You're very kind, thank you. Actually, I kind of enjoy slumming in VfD from time to time. It keeps my "head in the game" so to speak. ClockworkTroll 06:27, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ravenscroft
Where's Ravenscroft's manuscript located? As you might imagine, a guy who has scanned all of Ravenscroft's printed works would be interested in his unprinted ones, too. Greg Lindahl 23:28, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC) [user/timestamp added by Antandrus]

 * Hi Greg, I answered you on your talk page. Hope it helps! Antandrus 00:44, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for welcoming me to Wikipedia, my original user ID was 511. Unfortunately they've managed to break their user ID mechanism several times, so I have a couple of IDs. Anyway, thanks for the info, I didn't recall seeing it in the New Grove article when I looked at it a decade ago, and didn't make a copy... hey, Stanford has a copy of a thesis which contains a photocopy!

Heather
Thank you for that one... which is so darn obvious that I feel like an idiot for not having come up with it myself. :) func (talk) 05:52, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful back and forth regarding Brahms and his era!! (sorry for not starting a new section but seemed that one line was not, a '+'-for starting an edit section-for. ?!? :) ) Schissel 04:18, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for your support and kind words on my RFA. The nomination has gone through; I'm an admin as of today. Cheers! Joyous 00:47, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * Another thank you from yours truly for the nice note on my home page. Best, Lucky 6.9 22:53, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

My adminship request
Thanks for the support and the kind words. --jpgordon{gab} 04:19, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * You're welcome; I hope the nomination goes through. Best, Antandrus 04:39, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A quick note to say thanks

I just wanted to drop you a quick note to thank you for your support in my request for adminship. It was certainly a wild ride, and I really appreciate you taking some time out to contribute. ClockworkSoul 16:06, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

adminship
Posted on User_talk:ClockworkSoul

you're quite welcome! And I must say that Very has an interesting point above. :-) (Maybe someday we'll have a user named TroubledByTrolls... or UntroubledByTrolls...) Antandrus 16:13, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Stop it - you're making me want to change my name again! ;) ClockworkSoul 16:15, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gustav Mahler
Hi, thanks for your welcome greetings on User talk:80.184.177.120. I agree to your statement of the key signature of Mahler's 5th symphony. BTW, the Dover Score states it as "Symphony No. 5 in C-sharp Minor/D-Major", which makes sense to me, too. But keep in mind, that it wasn't me, who objected against the key, but Mahler himself: "From the order of the movements (where the usual first movement now comes second) it is difficult to speak of a key for the 'whole Symphony', and to avoid misunderstandings the key should best be omitted."

Just a bit about my person: I haven't created an account on the English Wikipedia so far, because I am mainly contributing to the German edition. cf. de:Benutzer:Wolfgang Nuss - Greetings from Frankfurt, Germany --80.184.177.120 20:06, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I'd answer you in German on de: but I'm too embarrassed by the badness of my German. Thank you for the link:  I didn't know about Mahler's own objection to key on #5.  Best, Antandrus 20:39, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Valerie Sohrweid
Hi! I am a 28 year old mother of five, and I am also a student that finds Wikipedia very helpful. For the general public to be able to edit and vandalize any page that they want,and you have to fix it must be a thankless job alot of the time. I had to revert your page on Thomas Jefferson because of Vandalism. I noticed that that version had an error also and I do not know how to fix them. But I thought that I would at least make sure that you knew about it. Any thoughts on Rousseau vs. Locke and who was more influential? Just kidding there are times when all of this fries the brain a little. Thanks! V. Sohrweid Please e-mail with receipt confirmation to val0025@juno.com

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. – Ram-Man (comment) (talk)  15:35, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Pachelbel
Hi Antandrus, thanks for the back-up on the Pachelbel Canon article. I agree that the Schmelzer is a further (five-chord) example and will keep my eyes open for additional cases. Cheers, Opus33 16:05, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ansel Admas
Thanks for helping me remember how to spell Asnel Adams. I'm always getting his name wrong. ;) And thanks for including that he was a pianist nearly as much as he was a photographer, devoting nearly as much time to the one pursuit as the other, from what I hear. Cheers. -Willmcw 08:26, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Schubert late quartets
Many thanks for the support (though there doesn’t seem an obvious place on the Schubert page to link this one to. May have to create one. At least this no longer feels like cheating!..) — Also a bit I need to add on the qt.14 page now I’ve been thinking about it *g* (Hrm. Category:Schubert compositions ... hrm...)  Schissel‐bowl listen 18:06, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)

Block
No problem, he's been blocked. The speed of his edits worry me though -- I wonder if it could be a bot... I'll probably be on for a little while, so let me know if he comes back. Tuf-Kat 06:08, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks much. Definitely bot-like behavior:  randompage, edit, select all, delete, save. Antandrus 06:18, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for help at Rail Band! Tuf-Kat

Nice reversion work on this...person today. I wish I had your patience. —Kdau 18:28, 2004 Dec 26 (UTC)

5000 edits in eight months, very nice... I see you could be convinced to accept an admin nomination, according to your userpage. I don't really know what to say to convince you, except that it really can be useful in fighting vandalism and dealing with complicated page moves, and it may be easier than it appears to stay out of controversy. Anyway, if you don't want to do it, that's fine, but let me know if you change your mind and I'll nominate you. Tuf-Kat 19:22, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

Crevaner/Old Right/Judson
He/they used to formerly make a point of letting many hours elapse between their respective votes, but it appears as if he/they're not being as subtle any more.

Last time, he/they stopped doing it after a few public remarks had been made about their oddly coinciding user pages and voting patterns, so I'd encourage simply pointing it out in VfD discussions.

As far as I know, sockpuppetry can never be more than a supposition.

Fortunately VfD is based on consensus and not a vote count, and since the acting sysop can and does use judgement in determining consensus and may ignore suspected sockpuppets. Dpbsmith (talk) 02:31, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * the matter may be resolved now. per Judson's reply on my Talk page. regards. Michael Ward 20:05, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Françaix
Ha! I've noted his absence -- I added him to the list of 20th c. composers in the first place, I believe -- and I have to admit that some of my motivation for getting a start up was your shock that he didn't have an article yet! I did see the site, yes -- actually, it's listed in the external links -- and got a few tidbits (with my terrible French and Babelfish). And I'm using the online version of Grove, which claims to be from the 29-volume second edition, and the best I have until I can get back into the university library (at which point I probably won't have time to do much writing, alas). Sorry to beat you to it (at least a little)!

Incidentally, has no one awarded you one of these yet? Wow. Consider me part of your fan club, as it were. :-) Was looking through your contribs page (yes, even reading some of the articles on obscure Renaissance composers, so that's at least *one* other set of eyes) and was impressed. So, a well-deserved barnstar, for your contributions to Wikipedia. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 05:48, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Incidentally, yes, I've played some Françaix -- the wind quintet -- but not nearly enough. My chamber groups keep going off and graduating on me, the wretches. :-) There is still an article by Arthur Hoérée (and Richard Langham Smith) in the Opera section article (yes, they're separated), but I found it almost utterly useless; if that's what you have in the 1980 I see why you're so glad it was replaced... Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 05:15, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Again not nearly enough Poulenc -- I'm sure I've played one or two of his pieces, but I can't think of what. I started on violin myself (and still play, but there are so many good violinists around that it's hardly worth mentioning), but bassoon suited me better, it and I both being a bit odd. Yes, Stetson's wind program and theory department are good, for a southeastern liberal arts school, at least, though I ended up there largely by accident. I take it from your photo/caption that you're off in California, doing whatever it is one does with a doctorate in music. :-) So great minds think alike again, with duelling Madeleines. Actually, mine is the Madeleine, but yours is the remembrance of things past (she says, ducking the overripe tomatoes). And thank you! I've been trying to write better articles in response to the standard of your work (among others, but particularly yours). Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 05:53, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Haven't read him, just recognize the reference and hate to miss an opportunity for a bad joke. No classes yet, I've a week more left. And happy editing, yourself. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Time
Thanks! And yes, I'm taking advantage of the break while it lasts (though tomorrow I go two hours each way to take the GRE, so I too can become a hopeless academic)... Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 04:25, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh, I thought the SAT was fun, myself. It's the getting up early and heading across the state (the short way, fortunately) I'm not looking forward to! I don't *think* there's still a music Subject Test, which is really too bad. And yes, a quizbowler -- were you one, then? Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 04:56, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I feel like I'm missing out, then! (Hey, E below middle C is the lowest note on my kazoo; at least, *I've* never gotten it to go any lower...)Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 05:12, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Middle Ages Wikiproject
Hi Antandrus, as far as I remember you work more on early modern music than medieval, but there is now a Middle Ages WikiProject, if you are interested. Adam Bishop 04:58, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

For an unrepentant highbrow...
...it's rather unseemly to have a typo right there on your user page. Sure, it's at the bottom, hiding beneath the pithiness of La Rochefoucauld, but I thought you might like to know anyhow. I'd take the liberty (or the privilege) of fixing it myself, but I wasn't sure if you'd mind, and you wouldn't get to see the new message banner light up, either. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 01:55, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, no shame; as a spelling bee nerd myself, I make more than my share... I'm better at spotting everyone else's typos than my own. :-) And indeed, Daniel Read. I know that period only from a day or two's lectures in music history, but I got sucked into link-surfing whilst category-checking... and figured as long as I was checking the link there, I should read up and write something on the intended Daniel.

 * Hm. I do know of joyce and re-joyce in Metamagical Themas -- had to go check to see if GEB ended with an incomplete sentence or not; I suppose the RICERCAR bit echoes the beginning chapter and could begin the book again, endless cycle-like, if that's what you're thinking of. I know Hofstadter's output fairly well and Joyce only by reputation and a few excerpts (sadly enough). Have you read GEB, then? As for the GRE... 800Q, 780V; tempted to take it again for that infuriating 20 points. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 03:29, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah! I knew Hofstadter was doing that; I didn't know Joyce did. (Note to self: read Joyce.) And I missed out on the analytical portion, too. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 03:52, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

quick note
Hi fvw--just wanted to say I'm impressed with your work here; keep it up. I hope the admin nom goes through. We can't possibly have too many dedicated vandal-fighters and nonsense-detectors. Happy editing, Antandrus 02:12, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, thank-you's are always much appreciated (even though my ego is quite sufficiently inflated at the moment by all those kind comments on my RfA). Keep up the good work! --fvw *  02:16, 2005 Jan 8 (UTC)

thanks Antandrus!
Hi, thanks for your comment on my editorial changes; I won't presume to debate a musicology Ph.D.! I guess I assumed that the de i was a spacing mistake in the vertuosa name. As for me, I am just an amateur/armchair baroque fan. I checked the Library of Congress catalog for the Cavalieri title, and saw that both e and et were used in the title (I had expected e or ed, but those wily Italians and their non-standardized spelling!!!) Anyway, I hope you don't mind me looking at the baroque articles; I figure we can work together to bring the light and sound of the baroque to starving souls needing such nourishment.

9 Jan: Thank you for you kind note. Glad to be of service. I learn a lot about composers I've never heard of, but there is a lot of work to do; for instance, I set up a stub for Zelenka, because he wasn't there yet!... anyway, keep in touch.

I remain, yr humble FeanorStar7

Supply Belcher, musica ficta
Hi Antandrus,

I enjoyed Supply Belcher.

You know, we seriously need musica ficta. Who else but you?

Cheers, Opus33 00:01, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi Antandrus, This is really nice and definitely helped reduce some of my confusions and ignorance on this topic.

I'm quite taken with the concept of causa pulchritudinis, which seems like a good reason to do all sorts of things, not just musica ficta! Cheers, Opus33 05:06, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Problems with Schein
Antandrus: would you be so kind as to look at the entries for Johann Schein and Johan Hermann Schein. One is a substantial article and the other is a stub, but they both refer to the same composer. As a Wiki-newbie, I don't feel comfortable trying to merge and delete stuff. But I thought you should know about the duplication. Thanks FeanorStar7 12 Jan 2005

update: edits complete. let me know what you think. some articles would have to be written about some of the people surrounding him. I will see what I can do, but prob. not tonite. thanx again. FS7

Composers
You must be some kind of musicologist. By the way, the composers you aren't even close to as well-known as say, Tomaso Albinoni. And many composers composed in more than one style throughout their lives. About Viraldini, I looked up that name and found several sources that imply he did exist. If he did exist, this would mean that he wasn't a well-known composer. But please tell me some reasons why you believe the composer never existed. Could the information and music of the composer have been artificially made. And could you please give me a source for putting down the suspicion that Henry Purcell may have been born on September 10. I'm longing to know these. Marcus2 17:10, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Here's one source for Viraldini: .  But it's certainly possible that people make stuff up over the Internet, and it all gets relatively widespread, which I suspect is the case with information found over the web on the singer Engelbert Humperdinck. Marcus2 18:30, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Brazil
No, he's another I know only by name: the music I know well enough to comment on is overwhelmingly biased toward wind music composers. And good luck; it seems a bit clogged at the moment... though I did get Rebecca Clarke through, and your attention there would be welcome. Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 18:57, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Re:Franz Schubert
My God, any help with copy-editing...... thank you thank you... :) --bleh fu talk fu  15:37, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

212.183.90.212, Notes inégales
Hi Antandrus,

Hmm, this editor does seem a bit loose-cannon-ish. I gave a try to Beethoven and Mozart and I see that you've got Schubert more or less under control (keeping in mind, of course, the long-term issues with that article that you mention).

In other news, do you think you could take on Notes inégales? I am encouraged in asking this by the happy result of my having earlier begged you for musica ficta.

Cheers, Opus33 16:47, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Nice work, Antandrus! I added a link to rhythmic mode (new to me--maybe you can cover that one too?), and a sentence linking to discussion of the similar practice among Sacred Harp singers (this one Southern only; Yankees either don't notice the notes inegales or don't like them, I'm not sure which). Cheers, Opus33 16:55, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Slonimsky on Slonimsky
Thanks for the pointer; I never would have stumbled across that myself. Great stuff! (Fortunately no one else was in that section of the library to hear me chuckling... now to see who else I can share that with.) Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 17:11, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Hah! Wonder just how painstaking the research for that would be, and how the cataloguing would go... Relatedly, just made the day of the music librarian here by pointing his entry out (who has, incidentally, read his autobiography, and hints that it is well worth adding to my ever-growing reading queue). Mindspillage (spill your mind?) 17:50, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

French baroque composers
Hello, I am Gérard and i read your to-do list. I am specialized in french baroque music - particularly for harpsichord and organ. I have written quite a lot of bios of french baroque composers for the french Wiki and my purpose is to translate them to english. Ot will be necessary to check them, because english is not my mother language, as you probably will notice. Could you help me ? I have planned my contributions in French baroque harpsichordists according to a corresponding page in the french Wiki. Thanks. Gérard 09:59, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Antandrus ; thank you for your kind answer. I didn't mention it, but I wrote in english, one year ago, about Louis Couperin, the Couperin family, Georg Muffat, Matthias Weckmann, Jean Titelouze, etc. I also adapted to english some drawings I made about harpsichord for french Wiki. Could you check them, specially for correct names ? I think that my contribution can be useful : you are aware that french composers of the baroque are a bit neglected here, and I have gathered much information upon them. I wish we can do a good job by joining our efforts. I'll give you my opinion upon notes inégales à bientôt ! Gérard 08:00, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) PS my contributions in French are under 2 pseudos : Ratigan and Gérard.

I've read notes inégales they look like a good job. Could you check my recent editions ? Thank you. Gérard 19:08, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Shame on you, Antandrus. Nicolas Siret was not in your watchlist! :-) Gérard 03:36, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Frescobaldi
Sorry, Antandrus, but I've got no information about the topic of pre-Frescobaldi tempo. Maybe you could question Luzzasco Luzzaschi himself ? ;o) Gérard 15:12, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the welcome, Antandrus. I'm enjoying the beginnings of my involvement in Wikipedia. It's a whole nother world in there (as one might say)! I note a general etymological similarity in our Wikinames. I'll browse through your material, and perhaps have more to say soon.--Noetica 22:03, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pindar!
O my soul, aspire not to eternal life But rather exhaust the limits of the possible.

I am delighted to see this on your page! It serves as the epigraph to Valéry's Cimetière Marin, as you almost certainly know, and I have a special interest in that poem.--Noetica 22:18, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your work and comments on List of early music ensembles
It's nice when people are civil and constructive, rather than the alternative. Niteowlneils 23:50, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Kalevi Aho
I just thought I should contact you to say I have created a very brief article on Kalevi Aho (Finnish composer), to which your /watch page links. --Oldak Quill 09:10, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, n-dash...
Hi Antandrus. I've been bringing what order I can to "Classical music era"; but I have also been exploring your vast array of contributions, of which I stand in awe. And thanks for your insistence on the n-dash, here and there. Don't you wish more people cared about the little things? So important in any serious reference work. --Noetica 02:21, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Rosauro
Nice save. :-) Yes, still on my to-do, and perhaps due to the kick in the pants I'll make it my next expansion. Busy of late, indeed. Although if I had thought about it, I could have made writing for Wikipedia into a credited independent study project and dropped a different class, but that's another of those brilliant ideas that come far too late. Thanks for the note! (Hm. University of Miami? Didn't know that. Interesting; I might be going there...) Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:37, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thank you!
Just a quick "thank you" for voting me for admin. Now all I've got to do is find out how to use these worrying new powers... Grutness|hello? 05:45, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Laboring in the shadows
Yes, that's it really. Just dropping by to touch base after you edited Francis Kynaston. Charles Matthews 10:58, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

A request
Hi Antandrus. Since we last spoke I've been working away at a few things here and there, many of them in the music area, but elsewhere too. I don't mean to trouble you (well, not unduly, anyway!), but I'd be grateful if you would have a look at how things are shaping up at Talk:Classical_music_era and, most recently, Talk:Sonata. Any advice would be welcome. (I'm having second thoughts about editing here at all, to be honest.) --Noetica 23:28, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Antandrus/Archive2


text:
Talk:Gyros

Requested move 7 April 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Consensus is that the primary topic is established, if nothing else since the proposed new title is already a PRIMARYREDIRECT to this article. Furthermore, opposition is not based in policy or guidelines. Pointing out ambiguity in a primary topic situation is pointless; ambiguity is a given. So what? Also, “title doesn’t sufficiently establish what the subject is” is not relevant to WP:CRITERIA. The proposed title is the most common name of the topic. That’s undisputed and sufficient by definition. Come on, folks. (non-admin closure)  В²C ☎ 06:58, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Gyros (food) → Gyros – Gyros is the primary topic, disambiguation is not required. WWGB (talk) 04:26, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:04, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Hi, what about Gyros (moth) and gyroplanes ? Dr. Vogel (talk) 05:15, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no article called "Gyros", the title is going to waste. WWGB (talk) 05:40, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * yes, but that could hold a disambiguation page. Can you show us any evidence that the one you want is actually the primary topic? Dr. Vogel (talk) 05:53, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Gyro" is a very common contraction for gyroscope, also seen in phrases gyro-action, gyro-stabilized etc. I'd say Gyros (the food) was a poor choice for primary even if it were my favorite. Doug butler (talk) 06:12, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to say Gyros should be a disamb page or at least redirect to Gyro, unless there is a clear case for a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. -Kj cheetham (talk) 08:12, 7 April 2022 (UTC) P.S. WP:PLURAL is the other consideration of course. -Kj cheetham (talk) 08:43, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. It already redirects here as the WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, so there is no need for the parenthetical disambiguation in the title. The moth stub is taken care of by the hatnote. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:37, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment There was an RM in 2011 that found consensus to move the article from "Gyros" to "Gyro (food)". It was boldly moved away from that name to the current title in August 2021. Colin M (talk) 23:49, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's a minefield. Of course, unless we have in this RM another long discussion on gyro~gyros, the closure should be followed by a move back to Gyro (food) per that consensus from 2011. But the spelling was discussed again in 2018 and in the the discussion above (which is still ongoing). From these I can glean two things. First, gyro is by far the most common spelling in English and is the form found in virtually all dictionaries. Second, doubts have been expressed about whether what is meant by gyro in the English-speaking world is the same as the gyros of Greek cuisine in Greece. So this leads into the bigger question: if these are different things, which one should this article be about? Or whether the article should be about any of them at all – see this 2011 thread which proposed a merge with the article about doner kebab, which resulted in a long but apparently inconclusive discussion. – Uanfala (talk) 16:28, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Although the term might be available, the title doesn't sufficiently establish what the subject is and given the use of the word as a short-form of gyroscope, and as a prefix, the parenthetical info is a useful, if not technically essential, clarifier IMO . Pincrete (talk) 13:20, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * We don't insert disambiguation parentheticals into titles unless it is necessary because another article shares the same title, which it does not in this particular case. And "gyro" is a slang term for gyroscope, not "gyros". Rreagan007 (talk) 19:14, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't remember the exact policy wording, but we do require that a title be clear enough to adequately identify the topic, not simply that it be unique, I personally often find that I end up landing on articles that have failed to identify themselves clearly and WP's search function demands a re-type. My logic on this name is that "gyros" does not satisfy the 'clarity' requirement, whether a parenthesis is the best way to achieve clarity is a separate question. In the case of 'gyros', the word isn't particularly ambiguous, but it isn't very clear either. Pincrete (talk) 07:16, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
 * And yet, articles like kokoretsi, loukaniko, pastitsio, souvlaki and taramasalata require no "parenthetical info" (disambiguation). Funny, that. WWGB (talk) 09:58, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I appreciate that most editors prefer article titles to be as short as possible. I personally think that it would be good if article titles were clearer, especially as you have to re-type if you end up on the wrong article, as I often do. It isn't like reading the first sentence in a paper encyclopaedia, then flicking on an item/page or two, if you've landed in the wrong place. It is part of policy is it not that the article title clearly identify the subject, not simply be a unique name? I personally would immediately recognise all but one of those foods, but many readers wouldn't. Pincrete (talk) 17:04, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nom, already the PRIMARYREDIRECT, and clearly primary for this spelling.--Ortizesp (talk) 17:53, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support clear primary, confusion with a gyroscope (or their shortened form of gyro) shouldn't be an issue per WP:SMALLDETAILS. Turnagra (talk) 20:56, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Normally lamb or pork?
The introduction says it is normally made with lamb in Greece. But under Preparation it says it is normally made with pork and rarely lamb. Which is it? 89.99.73.208 (talk) 20:26, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I live in Greece. Gyros with pork meat and chicken meat is common where I live (Western Thrace), while I have never heard of gyros with lamb meat. Dimadick (talk) 13:13, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Lamb and beef are largely US. The unexplained change from pork was made by an IP on 22nd July. Pincrete (talk) 13:20, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Not sure if this is limited to shops catering for tourists, but vegan gyros is also becoming increasingly more common. I will try find sources. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ (talk ✉ | contribs ✎) 21:26, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

"the Canadian donair"
I don't think we should pretend this is some special Canadian traditional dish. It's just a Döner made in Canada. Despite a bit of variation in the sauce. Same with the "Al Pastor" döner from Mexico. Or should we also include the döner they make in Germany, in England, in France, etc. and call them traditional dishes? What about pizza - I'm sure each country could get its own Wiki entry for the kind of pizza they make in that country. 77.233.228.141 (talk) 10:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gyros


text:
Deportivo 18 de Marzo metro station

Deportivo 18 de Marzo is a station on the Mexico City Metro. It is located in Mexico City's Gustavo A. Madero borough.

General information
The name of the station refers to the adjacent Deportivo 18 de Marzo sports complex, and its logo represents a player of a pre-Columbian ball game.

This station was previously known as Metro Basílica. Its logo and name were taken from the Basílica de Guadalupe Roman Catholic shrine, located one kilometer east of this station. When the Metro authorities changed the name of Metro La Villa to Metro La Villa-Basílica (a station that is only two blocks far Basílica de Guadalupe) they also changed the name of Metro Basílica.

Metro Deportivo 18 de Marzo was originally to be named Metro Montevideo (from nearby Avenida Montevideo), according to early plans for Line 3, so this station has changed its name twice.

This station serves the Tepeyac Insurgentes and Lindavista neighbourhoods. It offers a connection to Line 1 of the Mexico City Metrobús. Service to this metro station along Metro Line 3 opened on 1 December 1979. Service along Line 6 at the station started on 8 July 1986.

Nearby

 * Deportivo 18 de marzo, sports centre.
 * Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe, Roman Catholic church, basilica and National shrine.

Line 3

 * Northeast: Avenida de los Insurgentes Norte and Montiel street, Tepeyac Insurgentes
 * Southeast: Avenida de los Insurgentes Norte and Montiel street, Tepeyac Insurgentes
 * Northwest: Avenida de los Insurgentes Norte and Montiel street, Tepeyac Insurgentes

Line 6

 * Northwest: Avenida de los Insurgentes Norte and Avenida Ricarte, Lindavista
 * Avenida Ricarte and Avenida de los Insurgentes Norte, Tepeyac Insurgentes

title: Deportivo 18 de Marzo metro station


text:
American Axle

American Axle & Manufacturing, Inc. (AAM), headquartered in Detroit, Michigan, is an American manufacturer of automobile driveline and drivetrain components and systems.

History
AAM was founded in 1994 when a private investor group, led by Richard E. "Dick" Dauch, James W. McLernon, Raymond Park and Morton E. Harris purchased the Final Drive and Forge Business Unit from GM's Saginaw Division. In 1999, AAM went public, and is traded as "AXL" on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). AAM has grown to supply various OEM manufacturers around the globe in the passenger car, light truck, and commercial vehicle segments.

AAM's World Headquarters building, erected in 2004, is located on the Detroit/Hamtramck border.

2008 strike
The strike cost General Motors $2.6 billion as the automaker lost the production of its Chevrolet Malibu sedan and other vehicles.

Products
Key products include axles, drive shafts, front axle, universal joints and sealing and thermal-management products.

Axles

 * 10.5" Corporate 14 Bolt Differential
 * Saginaw 9.5-inch axle

Demolition
After closing its factories in Detroit in 2012, American Axle and Manufacturing had started a demolition project. In late 2013, much of the old manufacturing facility had been demolished by bulldozers and cranes. Also, in February 2014, it was reported and confirmed that most of the Detroit/Hamtramck manufacturing site had been sold to a California-based Industrial Realty Group, IRG LLC who specialize in the use of industrial buildings for other developments such as apartment complexes. In 2014, American Axle continued to own its headquarters and greenbelt property at the site. It planned to build an engineering facility in the sole building left standing from the original manufacturing complex.

UK subsidiary
Albion Automotive is a Glasgow-based subsidiary.

In 2002, the Court of Appeal ruled in a case brought by staff employed at Albion's Farington site in Lancashire, Albion Automotive Ltd w. Walker and others, that a contractual term entitling employees to an enhanced redundancy payment could be implied into the employees' contracts of employment based on the employer's custom and practice.

US competitors

 * Meritor
 * Dana

title: American Axle


text:
Jefferson Avenue (Detroit)

Jefferson Avenue is a 63.71 mi scenic road along the eastern part of the Detroit metropolitan area in the southeastern part of the U.S. state of Michigan. It travels alongside Lake Erie, the Detroit River, and Lake St. Clair. This road also provides access to many recreational facilities in the area. West Jefferson Avenue is primarily commercial, while East Jefferson Avenue contains a historic residential district.

History
Jefferson is one of five major avenues (along with Woodward, Michigan, Grand River, and Gratiot) planned by Judge Augustus B. Woodward in 1805 that extend from downtown Detroit in differing directions. First surveyed in 1807, it was named Main Street. It was later renamed Jefferson Avenue after U.S. President Thomas Jefferson, who was a friend of Woodward. Jefferson Avenue was planned to extend due east of downtown, parallel to the Detroit River. Later additions to the road have extended it west of downtown as well, where it continues to travel near the waterfront through the Downriver area.

Route description
This road originates in the City of Detroit. Jefferson passes under Huntington Place, but such structures as 150 West Jefferson and the UAW-Ford National Programs Center are located upon it as it rises to ground level there. It then passes through much of eastern Detroit and then the Grosse Pointe communities, St. Clair Shores, and Harrison Township, among others. It also serves as the backbone of the rich neighborhoods of the Grosse Pointe communities, skirting the eastern portion of Detroit. Westward, Jefferson Avenue passes under Huntington Place, by the former site of Joe Louis Arena, and through southwest Detroit, then it passes through the Downriver communities of River Rouge, Ecorse, Wyandotte, Riverview, Trenton, Gibraltar, and Brownstown Township before crossing the Jefferson Avenue Bridge into Berlin Township in Monroe County, intersecting with roads leading to bridges to Grosse Ile (Grosse Ile Parkway in Trenton leading up to the Wayne County Bridge and Bridge Road in Riverview leading up to the Grosse Ile Toll Bridge). The Trenton Channel Power Plant and Elizabeth Park are located along Jefferson Avenue in Trenton.

Although the road is continuous with Jefferson Avenue to the north and south, the name changes in Wyandotte to Biddle Avenue; similarly, in Grosse Pointe Farms and Grosse Pointe Shores, the name changes to Lake Shore Drive. The name also changes to U.S. Turnpike Road in Berlin Township after crossing the Jefferson Avenue Bridge. A gap occurs at the former Selfridge Air Force Base, now a golf course and the Selfridge Air National Guard Base.

Jefferson Avenue's east end is at 23 Mile Road, near the boundary between Chesterfield Township and New Baltimore; the western end is in Berlin Township at the intersection with Dixie Highway and Strong Road.

There are two small gaps in Jefferson Avenue on Detroit's southwest side. The first, one block long between Clark and Scotten streets, is occupied by the Detroit/Wayne County Port Authority's Detroit Terminal. The second gap is just under two blocks long, from a point east of 23rd Street to 21st Street under the Ambassador Bridge, and was instituted to increase the security of that bridge's Detroit anchorage.

In downtown Detroit, the southern end of M-10 is routed along Jefferson to the corner of Randolph Street/M-3. From the corner of Randolph to the southern end of I-375 between Beaubien and St. Antoine streets, Jefferson is the extremely short, 0.015 mi, unsigned Business Spur I-375.

title: Jefferson Avenue (Detroit)


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John O'Hurley

John George O'Hurley Jr. (born October 9, 1954) is an American actor, comedian, singer, author, game show host, and television personality. He is known for his portrayal of J. Peterman on the NBC sitcom Seinfeld, his voice acting as the original King Neptune on SpongeBob SquarePants, and for hosting the game show Family Feud from 2006 to 2010. O'Hurley also hosted To Tell the Truth from 2000 to 2002 in syndication.

Early life
O'Hurley was born in Kittery, Maine, the son of Jean (February 14, 1930 – February 9, 2017), a housewife, and John George O'Hurley (January 18, 1928 – February 1, 2020), an ear, nose, and throat surgeon. O'Hurley attended Natick High School in Natick, Massachusetts, and Kingswood-Oxford School in West Hartford, Connecticut, but moved to DuBois, Pennsylvania, in ninth grade. He attended Cardinal Gibbons High School senior year, and graduated in 1972. O'Hurley graduated from Providence College in 1976 with a BA in Theatre. O'Hurley performs charitable work for the Epilepsy Foundation due to the fact that his older sister Carol died in 1970 at the age of 17 due to epileptic seizures.

Seinfeld
On Seinfeld, O'Hurley played J. Peterman, a fictionalized version of catalog-company entrepreneur John Peterman, from 1995 until the show's end in 1998. O'Hurley invested in the relaunch of The J. Peterman Company, and since 1999 has been a part-owner and member of the board of directors.

Dancing with the Stars
O'Hurley was a contestant on the first season of the television show Dancing with the Stars, which aired during mid-2005. O'Hurley and his dance partner Charlotte Jørgensen made it to the final competition, which they lost to ABC soap opera star Kelly Monaco.

After fans alleged that Monaco's victory was a set-up, the network announced that O'Hurley, Monaco and their professional dancing partners would face off in a special "grudge match" episode broadcast September 20, 2005. Unlike the first episode, viewer vote solely determined the outcome as opposed to a combination between the three professional judges and the viewer votes.

O'Hurley and Jørgensen emerged as the winners. The rematch earned $126,000 for Golfers Against Cancer charity. Afterward the duo produced a dance instruction video called, "Learn to Dance with John and Charlotte".

Other roles
O'Hurley made two guest appearances on Baywatch in 1992 and 1994, in two different roles. The first was as villainous yacht club president Fred Adler in "Masquerade," and again as a grieving father named Bill in "Red Wind." In 2003, he played the role of Roger Heidecker on the UPN television series The Mullets.

O'Hurley returned to the Baywatch universe in a 1995 Baywatch Nights episode "Bad Blades," playing the villainous Kemp, in a roller hockey themed episode. He also co-starred on the short-lived sitcom A Whole New Ballgame, had a role as Ralph Stafford on the Murder She Wrote episode "Nailed", and guest-starred in an episode of Drake & Josh.

O'Hurley has been the host of Purina's annual National Dog Show every Thanksgiving since 2002.

In March 2007, O'Hurley took the lead role in the Wynn Las Vegas's production of Spamalot, in which he plays King Arthur. In July 2008, O'Hurley reprised his role as King Arthur in the Los Angeles production of Spamalot at the Ahmanson Theatre. In June 2013, he once again reprised the role of King Arthur in Spamalot at The Muny Theater in St. Louis, Missouri. O'Hurley starred on Broadway and on National Tour as Billy Flynn in Chicago. He has hosted the Mrs. America and Mrs. World Pageants.

O'Hurley is one of the guest speakers in the Candlelight Processional at Epcot in Walt Disney World. He is the voice of the owner of the Cow and Corset bar in the Fable II videogame for the Xbox 360. O'Hurley also replaced Frank Welker as the "Phantom Blot" for Mickey Mouse Works and House of Mouse. He has also provided the voice of King Neptune XIV on SpongeBob SquarePants and done voice-over work for radio stations, including WBEN-FM in Philadelphia, KPKX in Phoenix (as "Jim Peakerman"), KMAX in San Francisco (as "J.J. Maxwell"), and WARH in St. Louis (as "Simon Archer"). O'Hurley is also the voice of Coors Light commercials for more than 10 years.

O'Hurley guest-starred in an episode of The Emperor's New School called "Malina's Big Break", in 1999 as a cult leader in the Family Guy episode "Chitty Chitty Death Bang", and in 2010, guest-starred on Wizards of Waverly Place as Captain Jim-Bob Sherwood.

From 2008 to 2015, O'Hurley voiced Mayor Roger Doofenshmirtz, Heinz Doofenshmirtz's brother, in Phineas and Ferb. He also played in the award-winning 2000x dramatic series produced by the Hollywood Theater of the Ear for National Public Radio.

O'Hurley was a guest star on multiple episodes of the soap opera All My Children during its last month on ABC, in September 2011, playing Kit Sterling, a producer who approaches Erica Kane to make a movie based on the new book she has just written. O'Hurley previously appeared as Dr. James Grainger in three episodes of The Young and the Restless in 1990, and acted in the soap opera Loving as Keith Lane / Jonathan Matalaine.

In 2015, O'Hurley had a recurring role as Dr. Christopher Neff on Devious Maids. He also provided the voice for Victor the Villain on the children's animated TV series Wallykazam!.

Game show host
From 2000 to 2002, O'Hurley hosted a revival of To Tell the Truth. In 2004, he hosted the limited-run game show The Great American Celebrity Spelling Bee. On September 11, 2006, O'Hurley replaced Richard Karn as the fifth individual to host Family Feud. He hosted the show for four seasons, before departing the show at the beginning of 2010. O'Hurley was replaced by fellow comedian and film star Steve Harvey. In a 2017 interview with Fox News, O'Hurley agreed that it became less family-friendly and admitted that as one of the reasons why he left the show. O'Hurley also said:"I got tired of people writing to me saying: 'I can't watch your show. It's a misnomer calling it that because, it's not family. It feels like everything became a penis joke' and I got a little tired of that. I just felt that there are other ways to be more interesting on television and always trying to push that style of family entertainment. I had a great time doing it, but it was time to move on."

Personal life
O'Hurley is a self-taught pianist and classically trained vocalist, and has been composing since his teen years. In 2004, in tandem with cellist Marston Smith, he released a two-album project entitled Peace of Our Minds, a compilation of his original piano compositions. The piece "For Lisa" was written for O'Hurley's wife for their wedding day in 2004. O'Hurley was featured on the March/April 2009 cover of Making Music magazine.

O'Hurley was married to Eva LaRue from 1992 to 1994. Since August 14, 2004, he has been married to Lisa Mesloh. Together they have a son.

In May 2011, O'Hurley received the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.

O'Hurley identifies politically as a conservative, and is a longtime fan of the Boston Red Sox.

Books

 * It's Okay to Miss the Bed on the First Jump (2006) (New York Times best-seller)
 * Before Your Dog Can Eat Your Homework, First You Have to Do It (2007)
 * The Perfect Dog (2013)

Discography

 * A medley (with Sarah Rice) of three songs ("You Found Me and I Found You," "Not Yet" and "Before I Met You") from the musical Oh, Lady! Lady!! on Ben Bagley's Jerome Kern Revisited, Vol. II, released 1990
 * Peace of Our Minds (double-CD), released 2005
 * Secrets from the Lake, released 2008

title: John O'Hurley


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User talk:Aznsnowangel

Bla Bla Bla I hate Amanda Gian! I love cute boys!

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The Davis Sisters

The Davis Sisters of Philadelphia, PA were an American gospel group founded by Ruth ("Baby Sis") Davis and featuring her sisters Thelma, Audrey, Alfreda and Edna. Imogene Greene joined the group in 1950, and was later replaced by Jackie Verdell when Greene left to join the Caravans.

Early years
Raised in the Fire-Baptized Holiness Church in Philadelphia, the Davis Sisters were one of the first female groups to sing "hard gospel" of the sort being pioneered by the Dixie Hummingbirds and other male quartets of the day. They achieved a big sound, managing to sound like a choir behind the lead singer by positioning themselves several steps behind the microphone because Ruth's voice was so powerful it needed that buffer space.

Origin
The Famous Davis Sisters of Philadelphia was founded by Ruth Davis in 1945 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Ruth had enlisted in the Women's Air Corp during World War II to fulfill her patriotic aspirations. During this time her musical and creative instincts came to the forefront of her personality and the nurturing of her artistic side conflicted with the strict military discipline required of WAC's. While she wanted to do her part to rid the world of the Axis evil and minimize Holocaust casualties, she was discharged by the military to Philadelphia in 1945 before the untimely demise of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Germany's capitulation. The end of the war was definitely in sight but Ruth was left with the task of carving out her place in the world as a young African-American woman in a world dominated by men. Ruth had been continually inspired by music and had heard the Wings Over Jordan Choir in the military, the old Southern-style male quartets on the radio, and heard the newly developing gospel sound in churches and on programs.

One day in Philadelphia it was raining, visibility was poor and as she was crossing a cobblestone street, she slipped on a trolley track in front of an oncoming trolley. She felt someone lift her up and assist her to the sidewalk underneath a store awning. When she turned around to thank them, no one was there. This experience initially startled her as she thought she was dreaming or in a daze like someone intoxicated, but then the Holy Spirit fell on her and made her realize that this was the answer to her prayer—to have a new purpose in life: to spread the Good News of salvation through Jesus Christ in song. She later realized what a blessing her discharge had been as she was given a headstart on her new career and unknown to her at the time, soon hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of military people would be discharged and sent home looking for new careers. She felt God had really laid His hand on her. Ruth stated to her family that her two musical inspirations, that encouraged her to become a singer, were Ira Tucker and Dinah Washington.

In 1945, immediately after the rain incident, Ruth rushed home and formed all her sisters into a religious singing group with her playing the piano. Alfreda was only 10 years old! Ruth was the spiritual motivator behind the group and had strong religious convictions and her faith fired the faith of her sisters even at their young ages. The girls used the old Baptist Hymnal, sheet music, and songs from the radio and practiced, practiced and practiced. The Davis Sisters finally made their debut at their parents' home in Philadelphia, PA. in 1946.

In Philadelphia the Davis Sisters lived on 2227 N 6th Street at Susquehanna for many years. Later they moved to Cambrian Street near 13th street. They started singing in churches and on programs and became popular. Ruth developed their stage positions around a central microphone to achieve a depth to their combined voices. Their first recording contract was signed in 1947.

Many local concerts were given at the "Met" Theater in Philadelphia. The Sisters always packed the house and were always late arriving. People would wait at the door for them to arrive. They would look for Alfreda because she always led them in their march to the stage to begin singing. Their live performances were awesome and they would "tear the house down". Ruth Davis had such a powerful voice that she could just start up a song without any introduction or gimmicks. Disclose the glory of her instrument, a huge, wide ranging metallic Contralto of great beauty and extraordinary power and force in squalling. When she would sing "Shine On Me", she would throw her handkerchief in the air: the crowd would be ecstatic and many people were slain under the Spirit. When Thelma would sing "Jesus", the crowd really responded enthusiastically. The Davis Sisters' attire was usually plain choir robes and in the early days they were only accompanied by piano played by Curtis Dublin. The Famous Davis Sisters were involved in the movement of the Capella quartet sound into female group singing with instrumental accompaniment.

The loss of Curtis Dublin was a crushing blow to the group but they were spiritually resilient and continued their mission to spread the gospel of Christ in song. No one could play like Curtis, with his unique style, speed and timing. The Hammond B-3 organ was more in use in gospel venues and helped fill in the gaps, even when another talented pianist accompanied the group. One by one, over the years, the Sisters themselves passed on to their Greater Reward, but the same Spirit that started the Davis Sisters also kept them going for four decades. Their determined spirit was typified by the title of one of their albums on the Savoy label: "Undaunted". The Famous Davis Sisters of Philadelphia have been unfairly characterized as being an unlucky group because some of their star members died during the group's tenure. The truth of the matter is they have fared about the same as other gospel groups. Very few of the gospel singing stars from the 1950s lived to be 60 years old, including Mahalia Jackson. The Davis Sisters started out during World War II and kept their group together with its original sound and recorded for four decades while maintaining the highest level of popularity on the gospel circuit.

In the 1970s, after Ruth, who was affectionately called Baby Sis, had passed, their agent booked the group into Washington Temple COGIC in Brooklyn, New York for a concert. This is the church home of the famed gospel pioneer Madame Ernestine Washington. They were late as usual and the driver was speeding on the New Jersey Turnpike heading towards NYC. Their car was stopped by a New Jersey State Trooper. The driver explained to the trooper that she was driving the Famous Davis Sisters to a concert and they were late. No other excuses or explanations were given. Then a miraculous intervention occurred: not only were they not ticketed, but the State Troopers escorted their car into New York City to the concert location in Brooklyn! They were still a little late but everything worked out fine. Everyone present felt that Baby Sis was still looking out after her group from beyond the grave!

Members
The core of the group were biological sisters but over the decades some were replaced by non-related performers.

 * Ruth Davis - nicknamed Baby Sis, founded the group at age 17. Born on September 27, 1927, she was the featured vocalist with a bluesy voice and could also play the piano but never did on stage.  She was the creative brains behind the group's musical arrangements and was not afraid to try something new. Some of her gospel songs contain doo-wop vocal techniques culled from current rock and roll songs.  One of her most unusual arrangements was "Earnestly Praying", whose music is a cover to a 1961 pop hit, "Tossing' and Turnin'".  The Hammond organ's keyboard-instruments were cleverly used to fill in for other instruments used in the original song.   Ruth died on January 2, 1970. 14 years after her sister Thelma passed on the same day.  Ray Charles' wife sang at her funeral, which was a 2-day event (a combination of 36 hours) held at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Philadelphia, PA. There was a 160 car processional to her burial at Mt. Lawn Cemetery.
 * Alfreda Davis - born January 1, 1934. She was the long-time business manager of the group. She always collected the money from the promoter before the Sisters entered the auditorium and she led the group on stage.  She was the youngest sister who had started singing with them at age 10.  She died on June 15, 1990.
 * Thelma Davis - Born April 1, 1929. Joined at age 15, one of the blood Sisters. Her biggest hit was "Jesus, He's My King". Thelma Davis also wrote songs for the group. Founder, Business Manager as well Spiritual leader for the group. Unfortunately she died on January 2, 1956, at age 26 leaving behind her 3 children & husband James Blassingame. Post-partum she developed pneumonia and, anxious to support the group's performances, had begun touring too soon after delivery. A wake was held at MT. Zion F.B.H. Church the night before and Her funeral was held at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Philadelphia, PA. A combination of 12 hours. It was said to be one of the largest funeral in the city of Philadelphia history, The Fire Marshall had to remove people from the building. Clara Ward sung "The Day is Past and Gone" at the service.
 * Audrey Davis - another blood Sister. She married Curtis' brother, Wilburn Dublin.  She had four children from a previous marriage and with her touring with her sisters, the child care issue added stress to the relationship and they eventually divorced. Some would say she was the diva of the group, she would dress up with the finest wigs done at a shop on Germantown ave. Audrey was the soprano of the group, leading few songs such as "Jesus is A Waymaker" and "In The Shelter of the Rock". Audrey had a close bond with Aretha Franklin, they often would trade notes about Sam Cooke. Quoted from Aretha Franklin's autobiography "Aretha: From These Roots" ..........."Audrey Davis of The Davis Sisters and I used to compare notes, and she was buzzing how Sam had married his high school sweetheart and how gorgeous she was and how they were traveling with the baby and how he had bought them all a beautiful new home in California."  Audrey Davis passed on July 25, 1982
 * Edna Davis - A blood sister, she sang at concerts but was never with the group at a recording session. She is deceased.
 * Bernard Davis - youngest blood brother, Business Manager
 * Curtis Dublin - pianist, joined the Davis Sisters group in 1947 when he was 19 years old. He played piano with a strong jazz, bouncy rag-time influence which many early church-goers were slow to accept as religious music in the very early 1950s.  He lived on the second floor of the Davis family home in Philadelphia where he also died from a heart attack. (March 9, 1927 – December 29, 1964)
 * Jackie Verdell - joined at age 15. She was from Camden, New Jersey.  As a child she had witnessed her father kill her mother and this left her with a degree of symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.  The Davis Sisters supported her emotionally and treated her as a blood-sibling.  Originally she was singing with Rev. C.L. Franklin's traveling evangelistic troupe.  The Davis Sisters were touring with Rev. Franklin and heard Jackie sing and were amazed at her powerful voice and delivery.  At a program in Detroit, Michigan they asked Rev. Franklin to release her so they could hire her but he initially refused.  They persisted and teenage Jackie Verdell became another Davis Sister and fit in perfectly.  She had a solo career several times over the years and did some secular work.  Her favorite song, "Kumbaya" was recorded on a Jesse Jackson program.  She was nominated for a Grammy but did not win.  She died in August 1991.
 * Imogene Green - soprano. Imogene was from Chicago, Illinois.  She had sung with the Caravans, the Gospel All-Stars and another nationally known gospel group.  She died in July 1982.
 * Leila Dargan - hailed from Baltimore, Maryland. She is the 2nd lead vocal on the song: "On The Right Road" in the version recorded on RCA Victor LSP 2851 in 1964.  She died in a house fire in the 1980s.
 * Cynthia Young - vocals. She also occasionally played the piano for the group after Curtis died.

The Davis Sisters' first professional recordings were made for the Apex label in 1947 and issued on 78 rpm records. In Philadelphia they came under the tutelage of Madame Gertrude Ward, the manager of the Famous Ward Singers, and they added "Famous" to their name at this time. Mother Ward had been recording the Ward Singers on Irvin Ballen's Gotham label since it had moved to Philadelphia in 1948. She introduced the Davis Sisters to him and he loved them and signed them immediately to the Gotham label. In 1949 they recorded Gotham #702, "In The Morning When I Rise". A later issue, Gotham #736 "Jesus Steps In", was covered by Mahalia Jackson on the Apollo label, and the flip side of #736, "Too Close To Heaven", was covered by Alex Bradford on Specialty Records and became a big seller for him. Another notable recording on Gotham was "Get Away Jordan" in which Curtis Dublin sings lead vocal and plays piano.

In 1955 changes took place at Gotham Record Company and Ballen Enterprises, which had their own record pressing plant in Philadelphia. Their continued existence was threatened by a copyright lawsuit over a rock and roll song. Mother Ward had met with great success on the Savoy label where her group was awarded a gold record for "Surely God Is Able" and it was not long before she convinced Ruth and the Sisters to sign with Savoy also. The Davis Sisters' perpetual hit and theme song: "Twelve Gates To The City", the title of their first album issued on Savoy as MG-14000, still sells today. Savoy issued many singles and albums of studio work by the Davis Sisters. Many people who had not seen them in a live concert got to know them and their music by listening to their Savoy albums on the radio or at home. The Davis Sisters were so popular around the world that Savoy continued to market and sell their old recordings even after they had left the label.

In the 1950s and 60's, the Famous Davis Sisters continued to record and tour, using their Philadelphia home as a base of operations. In 1962, the Sisters got into some disagreements with each other and Baby Sis decided she needed more breathing space. She moved to New York City, got her own apartment and formed her own singing group named: "The Ruth Davis Specials of New York City". Herman Lubinsky, their record producer at Savoy, caught wind of this breach and smelled an opportunity to take advantage of this family spat. He signed the New York group to a recording contract and issued the album as "Ruth Davis and the Davis Sisters - On The Right Road", Savoy MG-14072, thinking an enthusiastic but unsophisticated record-buying public would not notice the discrepancy in the product despite its misleading billing. However, this little bit of treachery did not endear Lubinsky to the Sisters and they all left his label the next year for good.

Ruth made up with her sisters and they began touring together again as a family, just like in the old days. In 1964 their concert in Hot Springs, Arkansas was recorded by the prestigious RCA label, which had only recorded a few Afro-American gospel artists before, like Doris Akers and Clara Ward. The RCA album was their first recording in stereo because Savoy's studio did not have the technical capability at that time to engineer dual-channel stereo products. The album was issued as "The Davis Sisters Sing Authentic Southern Style Gospel - Recorded In Live Performance", RCA Victor LSP-2851, and had a color photograph on the cover of the Famous Davis Sisters in their choir robes singing around a microphone, reminiscent of the format of Savoy MG-14000, their first album which was issued almost ten years previously with much less professional photography and graphics.

Personnel changes occurred in the group in the 1960s also and all later recordings were made on regional labels about every five years up until around 1985: sometimes a single 45 rpm and sometimes an entire album, and sometimes not with the full group. Several sides were recorded for Ozzie Cadena's start-up label Choice Records in New Jersey after he, too, left Savoy Record Company. Their last full album in the 1980s was so popular that they re-pressed it to meet demand but they issued it with a different cover:  one shows the group standing under a rainbow; the other album cover is a photograph of the Davis Sisters in front of a grand piano. Several television appearances are still available to the public on video websites and some older recordings are now reissued on compact disc. As of 2007, all of the Davis Sisters, their parents and siblings are deceased: only children and grandchildren and three inlaws survive.

Discography

 * 1949-1952 (Heritage 47, 2003) (Gotham recordings)
 * 1950 Gotham 716 - Bye and Bye
 * 1955 Twelve Gates To The City - Savoy 14000)
 * 1956 Shine On Me - Savoy MG 14007)
 * 1958 He That Believeth - Savoy MG-14014)
 * 1958 Plant My Feet On Higher Ground - Savoy MG 14030)
 * 1959 Jesus Gave Me Water - Savoy 14036)
 * 1962 Somewhere In Glory - Savoy MG 14061)
 * 1962 The Famous Davis Sisters Earnestly Praying - Savoy MG 14051)
 * 1964 Authentic Southern Style Gospel - RCAVictor LPM 2851)
 * 1967 In My Room - Savoy MG 14183)
 * 1967 They Wait Upon The Lord - Savoy MG 14199) This Album and following share the same Catalog#
 * 1967 Wait A Little Closer - Savoy MG 14199)
 * 1970 Get Right With God - Hob 297)
 * 1970 Get Right With God - Savoy
 * 1970 Ruth Davis Memorial Album - Savoy MG 14250)
 * 1973 The Undaunted - Savoy 14306)
 * The Best of the Davis Sisters (Savoy LP/CD 7017, 1978/2001)(Savoy recordings, 1955–1968)

title: The Davis Sisters


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Virtual Advanced

VBBS is an acronym for Virtual Bulletin Board System. It was a shareware bulletin board system (BBS) for DOS (and later OS/2) that was conceived by Roland De Graaf in 1990. Written from scratch in QuickBASIC, it developed a loyal following. Originally it was a door for WWIV, but quickly grew into an original BBS concept on its own. By 1993, there were thousands of computers running VBBS around the world. VirtualNET, the largest VBBS message network, had close to 1500 members by version 6.14 in 1993.

Up to this time, VBBS remained shareware, but in 1994 Roland released version 7.0 as a commercial product. The lifetime registrations of prior versions were not honored for this version and required anyone who wished to use this version to pay. While some did decide to pay again for the upgrade, others became unsatisfied and began looking for other alternatives. There would not be another release of VBBS.

Instead, Roland switched gears again in 1995. He released Virtual Advanced (VADV) as the successor to VBBS. VADV contained many improvements to the old system. One notable feature was a much more powerful scripting language. It was a step forward for the software but once again SysOps were required to purchase the new software.

Virtual Advanced would finally reach version 2.10. This version along with its companion, the Virtual Internet Survivor Kit (VISK) v1.30, would show that it indeed was "advanced" for its time. With the growing trend of the Internet, VADV now supported features such as POP3, SMTP, NNTP, WWW and Finger.

Ultimately, with the rise of the Internet, costs of upgrades and tensions within the support network, Virtual Advanced all but faded away.

In 1998, Roland, who was legally blind, suffered a detached retina in his good eye and had to have immediate surgery to repair it. It would take years for him to recover and he never returned to the BBS scene.

Virtual Advanced was frozen in its current state. Only a handful of systems survived with the disappearance of its creator. VirtualNET did not survive.

In late 1999, Steve Winn, a loyal VBBS supporter and script writer, began to help revive the dying software. He and other loyal supporters began to rekindle interest in the software. A support site was born and from it grew AspectNet, a support network.

In 2002, Steve created the VADV-PHP project. This was a web front-end for Virtual Advanced. Users could access the BBS functions using a familiar web interface.

In 2003, a telnet server was developed by John Tipton called VADV32. A version 2.0 was released in 2005,.

VirtualNET was reborn in early 2005. The six-year-old support network AspectNet would surrender its existence to allow the rebirth.

title: Virtual Advanced


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Talk:Shawarma

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Talk:Gem Archer

Nickname
It was after Archie Gemmill as he was a good footballer at school and it eventually got shortened to Gem ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.131.162 (talk) 20:04, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Nickname - my take is that it is a shortened version of the footballer - Archie Gemmill...Archer...Gemmill...Gem.87.127.37.65 (talk) 16:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know the origin of his nickname? It seems to be pronounced with a hard 'g', not like gem.--MartinUK (talk) 10:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Gem Archer did not right the new oasis song "The Meaning Of Soul", Liam Gallagher did. Gem Archer wrote their new song called "A Bell Will Ring". This has been stated over and over again by members of the band, so I have no idea who could be stupid enough to get it the wrong way round.

Bloody hell! Put yer handbag away yer daft sod. It seems like an honset mistake. You don't have to be "stupid" to get that wrong. Painbarer does more for this subject that you (you tellingly didn't leave yer name, but you can't do more than me & him) so why don't you just leave it out? Girl.--Crestville 14:47, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm almost positive Gem does not have the same birthday as Noel. We need to source that. -- Bang Bang You're Dead 21:45, 19 Feb 2007 (UTC)

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Category:Wards of Yokohama

Wards of the city of Yokohama in Kanagawa Prefecture, Japan.

Neighborhoods have a separate category: Category:Neighborhoods of Yokohama.

title: Category:Wards of Yokohama


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Magruder, Virginia

Magruder was a small unincorporated town in Virginia near Williamsburg in York County. Settled mostly by African-American freedmen after the American Civil War, it once had its own church, post office, cemetery, lodge, and homes. After this land was acquired for the development of the US military reservation known as Camp Peary, all the residents and businesses were displaced. Magruder is considered extinct and one of the lost towns of Virginia.

History
Magruder was located in York County. The site was north of the colonial-era capital of Williamsburg and just west of Queen's Creek, which flows into the York River on the north side of the Virginia Peninsula.

The small settlement which became Magruder was named for American Civil War Confederate General John B. "Prince John" Magruder. During the Peninsula Campaign of the American Civil War in 1862, a large federal force under General George B. McClellan began at Fort Monroe at the entrance to Hampton Roads and moved west to try to capture the Confederate capital city of Richmond.

General Magruder headed a small force known as the Army of the Peninsula. His mission was to delay the federal advance, and he became well known for his deceptive and successful tactics in doing so. The federal campaign of General McClellan culminated in failure after the series of battles known as the Seven Days Battles just east of Richmond.

After the Civil War and Emancipation, the area in which Magruder was located became settled by African American families, who were mostly former slaves (freedmen). Decades later, the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway (C&O) built through the area in 1881 to reach the coal piers and the new city of Newport News on the ice-free harbor of Hampton Roads. The C&O later built a spur line which extended to Magruder Station.

During World War II, in 1942–43, the U.S. Navy took over a large area in the north western portion of York County to train Seabees and hold special German prisoners-of-war which became known as Camp Peary. All residents of the entire towns of Magruder and Bigler's Mill were removed. Many of the black residents of Magruder and the Baptist church relocated to the majority-black community of Grove in nearby James City County. The Presbyterian church, which, with its cemetery, is close to the entrance, remains. Grove had been sparsely populated until the years after 1918, when a large influx of displaced black families moved there after their land was taken to create a military reservation which became the Naval Weapons Station Yorktown.

After World War II, the Camp Peary area was transferred to the Commonwealth of Virginia and was used as a state game preserve. Then, in 1951, the Navy reclaimed the land and closed the base to the public. Despite efforts at secrecy, Camp Peary eventually became well known as "The Farm," a training facility for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Although access to the base is still restricted the roads and many structures of Magruder and Bigler's Mill are still there and many are occupied.

title: Magruder, Virginia