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Talk:Republic/Archive 2

Part V.a A Socratic
Socrates: You recognize that the word is in common mis-usage. Correct?

Man: Yes

Socrates: And it is not possible to re-correct it then, right?

Man: yes

Socrates: Does the military use bad maps?

Man: no, they use the most current update maps.

Socrates: What happens when there is faulty information in directions.

Man: Accidents occur just like Private Jessica's Lynch's convoy took a wrong turn because the direction was not clearly marked.

Socrates: Aren't words like maps--they point to a direction.

Man: Why-yes. Use bad words and we end up like the convoy of Jessica Lynch.

Socrates: Bravo.WHEELER 17:16, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Solution suggested

 * Solution suggested. Just like Democracy is a divided into (a) direct and (b) indirect, I suggest Republic is a Mixed Government based on a Constitution defining the parts and their duties.  (a) The Spartan Model which has King, Aristocracy, Demos. Britian is the Spartan model. (b) The Roman model which has as an head counsels or tribunes (a Changeable civilian head), Aristocracy (Senate), Demos.  The American form of Government is based more on the Roman Model.    This definition answers all cases were there is mixed government and excludes all and defines it clearly throughout time.  This will give students a clearer road on how to classify and define governments through history and maybe correct misconceptions and misdefinitions and this will utterly help the political discussion because NOW we know what we are talking about. The Republic is the 'genus' and 'The Spartan model'  and 'The Roman model' are the species.  The species both share in the definition of the genus but there are differentians of characteristics that divide one from another.

WHEELER 16:10, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Aristotle himself called the Spartans a monarchy numerous times in the Politics. I don't understand why you keep trying to call them a republic.  Furthermore, your comments above don't seem any improvement to me on the language in the article now, which is very clear that republics come in many shapes and sizes (in fact, limiting them all to two so-called models seems more restrictive to me than it should be).  Use of the words "genus" and "species", as I've remarked to you before, is a misapplication of taxonomy to political science.  It may be useful for purposes of casual analogy, but we cannot resort to it in an encyclopedia article, or we will confuse and mislead our readers.  You have yet to demonstrate that any authority refers to a government such as that current in the United Kingdom as a republic.  As noted in this paragraph, Aristotle himself describes Sparta as a monarchy -- one in which the monarch held weakened powers, yes, but fundamentally part of the "monarchy" category.  Your ideas have the merit of being an unusual take on republics which has given all of us cause to consider political terminology, but I am afraid your quotations, though well cited, do not appear to me to compel us to accept your two model theory of republics -- it's original research, something Wikipedia is not.  Jwrosenzweig 20:37, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I repeat again: "And the whole constitution is intended, it is true, to be neither a democracy not an oligarchy, but of the form intermediate between them which is termed a republic, for the government is constituted from the class that bears arms." Politcs, II iii 9; 1265b 25; or page 105 LoebWHEELER 15:45, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Definition of what is oligarchical and Aristocratic. Oligarchical is election by wealth and election by merit is aristocratic. Further down he points out that oligarchical is motivated toward wealth and Aristocracy is by worth, or and virtue. Politics, II, viii 5; 1273 20-25; pg 161 LoebWHEELER 16:01, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * As to the point that Aristotle calls Sparta a monarchy is nowhere to be found. Politics II, v 14; 1269a 25-30; pg 133 Loeb "On the subject of the consitution of Sparta"  In Greek it reads, "tys Lakedaimonion politeias".  Sparta had a Constitution, therefore a Republic.WHEELER 17:20, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * WHEELER, thank you for providing citation information. Sadly, we have a translation issue.  In the Jowett translation of the Politics (the one I prefer), the word "republic" appears 7 times, six times referring to the title of Plato's work, and once in reference to the government of Hippodamus.  Obviously, our translators are dealing with a word that is difficult, and my translator seems to prefer to avoid the word "republic".  Furthermore, the sentence you offer above from "Politics, II iii" -- that is a reference to Book II, Part iii, isn't it?  I could not find that sentence anywhere in my translation, nor even a close approximation of it.  Could you have mistyped the reference?  Obviously this is not easily settled.  And as to your final point, I don't see that you've established that Sparta wasn't called a monarchy -- I'll find you references if you want them.  Constitutions cannot be said to define a republic because there is such a thing as a "constitutional monarchy" -- or are you arguing that a republic is "any state with a constitution"?  Would that include the USSR, for example, as a republic?  Please clarify, and do check that first quote. Jwrosenzweig 16:58, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Point of Interest
Aristotle says, "The constitution resulting must of necessity be another one, so that when men destroy these classes by laws carried to excess they destroy the constitution." Democracy seeks to destroy all classes of heirarchy making them the same. This is opposite of what a Republic is. A Republic keeps all classes and does away with none. All participate. Republics seek not to destroy class.WHEELER 16:17, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Your quotation of Aristotle seems pulled out of context to me, and I cannot find it in my copy of the Politics -- we must have different translators. Will you please provide a reference?  Furthermore, if we're going to rely on Aristotle as our chief source on government (he was brilliant, but I'd rather not), don't you have to accept that there are three kinds of government: monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy?  So if republics aren't monarchies or democracies, according to you, are they oligarchies?  Your terminology, while it is fascinating, leads to very confusing conclusions for me.  Will you clarify? Jwrosenzweig 20:42, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * The quote comes from Politics, V. vii 18; 1309b 39; or pg 435 in Loeb. As in confusing terminology please read above where I enumerate Aristotle's comment on how sytems of government are defined by the dominant factor. Also look at the socratic.  Please read also Aristotle "A collection of persons all alike does not constitute a state".  Politics II i 4; 1261a 20; or page 73 LoebWHEELER 15:29, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Despite your reference to Book V, Part vii, I cannot find the sentence to which you refer -- much talk of constitutions, but nothing concerning "destroying" them. Perhaps my eyes are poor -- will you look at http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.5.five.html as a courtesy to me, and point out the sentence by copying it here?  I would appreciate it.  You and I seem to rely on very divergent translations.  I read Book II Part i, and cannot see its relevance to us (though I thank you for returning me to Aristotle -- it is pleasant to read him, even when I am not finding the answers you have sent me in search of). Jwrosenzweig 17:04, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Point of Interest Cicero
Cicero: "When however, instead, a group of men seize the state by exploiting their wealth or noble birth or some other resource, that is a political upheaveal, though they call themselves conservatives.  If, on the other hand, the people gain the supremacy, and the whole government is conducted according totheir wishes, a state of affairs has arisen which is hailed as libery, but is, in fact, chaos.  But when there is a situation of mutual fear, with one person or on class fearing another, then because nobody has sufficient confidence in his won strength a kind of bargain is struck between the ordinary people and the men who are powerful.  The result, in that case, is the mixed constitution which Scipio recommends.  (It is footnoted as monarchy, oligarghy and democracy.) Which means that weakness, not nature or good intention, is the mother of justice.  On the State 23-4, Cicero On Government, Michael Grant, pg 180

What Montesquie said was nothing new. I assume he copied and quoted and read the Romans. WHEELER 16:27, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * First of all, footnotes are simply the introduction of the translator/editor's bias. They are of interest, to be sure, but not authoritative.  What Cicero meant by "mixed government" is surely a little more complicated than simply "any combo of at least 2 of these 3 governments".  Furthermore, if we follow this comment, it would appear that the only true republics in your eyes are those operating by virtue of mutual fear on the part of the social classes -- certainly many current states that call themselves republics do not operate under this principle.  Also, Cicero does not seem to be using the word republic (though surely it was available to him?  Unless the translation is faulty) -- why do you insist that his "mixed constitution" is equivalent to a republic?  You have not demonstrated any such connection to my knowledge, though I would certainly be open to seeing such a connection. Finally, who said anything at all regarding Montesquieu?  You appear to be raising some kind of argument against an appeal that has not been made -- I, at least, cannot see anything in this talk page referring to The Spirit of the Laws or any other work by Montesquieu. Jwrosenzweig 20:48, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * As Regards to the word "mixed" I quoted from Cicero, Roman authority and Aristotle, a Greek authority. They seem to agree on the concepts at hand.  Two men seperated by time and country can agree on something and the moderns are still muddled.

 * Aristotle’s definition of how systems of politics are defined: Politics, III iv 1; 1278b 5-10; pg 201 Loeb; “Now a constitution (Politeia) is the ordering of a state (Poleos) in respect of its various magistracies, and expecially the magistracy that is supreme over all matters.   For the government is everywhere supreme over the state and the constitution is the government.

 * Politics III v 2f; 1279a 30-35; pg 207 Loeb, “Our customary designation for a monarchy that aims at the common advantage is ‘kingship’; for a government of more than one yet only a few ‘aristocracy’, …while when the multitude govern the state with a view to the common advantage, it is called by the name common to all the forms of constitution, ‘constitutional government’. The Greek here is Politeia.  Constitution by itself in Greek is Politeion.  On page 204, Politeia is Constitution and Politeuma is government.

 * Politics III v 7; 1279b 35-40; 211 Loeb “…wherever the rulers owe their power to wealth, whether they be a minority or a majority, this is an oligarchy, and when the poor rule, it is a democracy.” Clearly Aristotle and the rest were not confused about Republic and democracy.  They are two seperate entities and mean very different things.198.108.150.2 16:55, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * I have to assume that something is wrong with your edition of the Politics, or else with mine. Jowett's III iv ( http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.3.three.html ) talks about the virtue of good man vs. good citizens.  A noble passage, to be sure, but one which does not use anything like the phrase "the government is everywhere supreme over the state".  WHEELER, your quotes frequently sound like Aristotle, and may well be from him, but I am not finding them.  Please check your references.  Until we can successfully look at the same passages, I don't think there's much hope of understanding each other.  Thank you, Jwrosenzweig 17:10, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC).

 * Mr. Jowett of your reference is not using the same reference points in the Loeb Classical edition. The Loeb provides three referencing systems.  Obviously, Mr. Jowett first system doesn't match the Loeb.  Spend Twenty Dollars on the Loeb.  I couldn't find the section I referenced at all in Book III of the internet.  What a mystery.WHEELER 18:11, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Book Three of your reference has 18 chapters. My Book three has 12 chapters.  My Loeb states "The traditional order of the works of Aristotle as they appear since the edition of Immanuel Bekker (Berlin l831) and their division into volumes in this edition."  Mr. Jowett used another work to base his translation on.  Loeb is an authority of text.  Loeb would be better than internet which can be manipulated.  Books can be but one must wait for the edition to come out.WHEELER 18:24, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * The Jowett translation was published in the late 1800s, and is very authoritative also -- see http://www.bartleby.com/65/jo/Jowett-B.html or Benjamin Jowett to learn more about him, if you doubt his credentials. I refer to the online version for our mutual convenience: when studying Aristotle in university, I used the Jowett translation in book form, and still own the book.  I simply assumed referring to page numbers would not be helpful to you when there was a more accessible copy on the web.  At any rate, you have seen what my translation looks like -- if our divisions are different, would you assist me by telling me roughly where to look  in my divisions?  You aren't obligated to do so, but I would appreciate it.  I am surprised that you have a different set of divisions: in my university seminar, we used three different translations (for comparative purposes) and they all used the divisions that are present in Jowett's translation. Jwrosenzweig 18:36, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * So you know, the translator for the Loeb edition is Harris Rackham. You probably did know, but you hadn't mentioned it previously that I saw, figured it was worth noting.  The text is online and searchable (to some extent) at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Aabo%3Atlg%2C0086%2C035&query=1252a where, through difficult back-and-forth, I can track down some of the passages to which you refer in Jowett's translation.  Jowett prefers the word "polity" to "republic" using it almost exclusively (except, as I noted above, in the case of Hippodamus) -- this indicates, I think, that Jowett saw Aristotle's concept of mixed government as being distinct from the idea of "republic" in some meaningful way, though what that was, I cannot say.  This would appear to indicate, though, that at the very least we must say that there is dispute among scholars concerning whether or not Aristotle meant "republic" when he was speaking of the politeia.  I will have to look at other translations to get a larger picture, and will see what conclusions I can derive.  This is most interesting. Jwrosenzweig 18:54, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Source of Problem
The problem can be seen in the Oxford Companion to Classical Literature. (see page 485) The Latins translated Plato and gave the title Respublica, thus leading to centuries of misleading. It states, "The original meaning is closer to 'society' or 'the state'.

The word 'Polites' in the Greek means citizen. But because the Latins translated Plato's Politea as Republic, the French Revolution and the Spanish Civil war wanting to be citizens called themselves "Republicans" thinking that the term of the Republic would mean that Republicans are citizens.

Republic Roman

"The Latin words res publica mean ‘affairs affecting the state’, ‘the state’ itself, or ‘the constitution’ of the state. The Roman Constitution was a republic in the modern sense of the word, in that the supreme power rested with the people; arbitrary rule by an individual (monarchy or tyranny) or by a small group (oligarchy) was renounced, and the right to take part in political life was given to all adult male citizens (but not the right to take equal part; compare DEMOCRACY). For the beginnings of the republic at Rome see ROME 3.  Under the republic, in the constitutional sense, lasted from the expulsion of the kings in 510 BC to the death of Mark Anthony in 30 BC.

Nominally a democracy in that all laws had to be approved by an assembly of citizens, the republic was in fact organized as an aristocracy or broad-based oligarchy, governed by a fairly small group of about fifty noble families (see NOBILES) who regularly held all the magistracies. Pg 485 of the Oxford Companion to Classical Literature."

We need to archive and I don't know how.WHEELER 00:34, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * To archive, edit the page; cut a large section of the page from top down. The create an archive page by typing "talk: xxx/archive# in double brackets.  Save the edited talk page, open the new page you just created, and paste the archived material, Slrubenstein

Anti-democratic character of the Constitution of US
"For the anti-democratic character and intentions of the Constitution of the United States cf. William E. H. Lecky, Democracy and Liberty (New York: Longmans Green, 1896), pg 66-67. It is well known that Alexander Hamilton regretted the strictly republican character of the United States.  Efforts were made by N. Gorham and Von Steuben to induce Prince Henry of Prussia (a brother of Fredrick II) to become a hereditary sovereign of the United States.  The old Dutch Constitution would have served as a pattern.  But these efforts failed; cf. Chester V. Easum, 'Prince Henry of Prussia, Brother of Frederick the Great (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1942), pg 339." Liberty or Equality, pg 317.WHEELER 00:20, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I have created a page to talk of something I have seen on this site Revisionism.WHEELER 23:45, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Russia <=> Republic
Hmmm, okay well, most federations are also run as republics at the top level. (see USA, the (Federal Republic Of) Germany, etc). I also noticed that in the recent past Russia *was* literally called a federal republic by the russians themselves. Okay well, that was sufficient for me to put it on the list at the time. Is there a particular reason to think Russia is *not* a republic, according to the definition here? Kim Bruning 08:11, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It looks like you're actually a Russian or a Russia expert, so I'm probably going to loose this one, but well, let's hear why I'm wrong in any case :-) Kim Bruning 08:15, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Hi, Kim. According to the definition given in the article, one could pretty much list every country in the world as a republic, unless such a country is run by a monarch — it is probably easier just to give a list of countries that are not republics :)  Which, to me, defeats the purpose of such a list.
 * I think it makes much more sense to separate pure republics from federations and confederations. Granted, the difference would be more administrative and territorial, than academical, but it would at least make the list look less convoluted and confusing.  This goes for Russia as well as for the USA and other countries that are comprised of a combination of entities with some degree of autonomy (theoretical or real).
 * I think the confusion came from the fact that Russia used to be one of the 15 republics when it was a part of the USSR (and it was called accordingly - RSFSR - a republic).  After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, however, Russia was described more as a federation (which, of course, does not mean it cannot be considered a republic in the classical sense).  Have I confused you yet? :)
 * Anyway, I am still against including Russia in the list unless the article is rewritten in such a way as to implicitly distinguish between republics, federations, confederations and similar entities, and an explanation of the definition duality is given.
 * Thanks for your attention!-Ezhiki 18:04, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)

 * The definition given in the first line of the article seems needlessly simplistic. To my mind the essential characteristic of a republic is that sovereignty derives from the people, rather than another person or group. Is a nation a republic if the head of state is purely ceremonial? Is another nation not a republic if the elected HoS is titled King?

 * Australia has long been described as "a crowned republic". The postion of Head of State is not defined in any constitutional documents or High Court judgements and over the century or more since Federation, the monarch has become more remote and powerless. The Queen's only remaining role is to formally appoint the Governor-General on the advice of the Australian Prime Minister (she has no discretion in the matter) and it is the Governor-General who holds the powers of head of state, exercised by a President in British Commonwealth republics such as India. These powers are laid down by the Australian Constitution, which may only be changed with the approval of the people in a special majority.

 * I think that there is room for other definitions and other points of view. Skyring 20:14, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The United States is also a federation, and is frequently called a (or more frequently, the) republic. See also the Federal Republic of Germany. The distinction you are making is between unitary and federal republics, not between republics and some other form of government. (And, yeah, by that standard, every country other than monarchies is a republic...which leads me to suggest that we not list current republics at all) john k 18:24, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

UK election?
I removed Perhaps the most significant exception among the forms of today's monarchies is the oligarchical form of election used in the United Kingdom (described under Privy Council) since there is no description, and as far as I know the Act of Settlement means there is no election of the head of state: the proclamation is for information only. --Henrygb 15:55, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Example?
The page says: "In recent times there have been a large number of not-so-democratic republics, and the definition of the word has become more constrained."

Can you give an example of such a republic?

(I'm not doubting they exist -- I really want to learn more about this. Where do I read?  By itself, this sounds like a dead-end fact: here's a fact, accept it, move on.)

 * Peoples Republic of China any of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, especially under Stalin, and famously of course, Nazi Germany, too many to name! Kim Bruning 10:56, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Republic/Archive 2


text:
Talk:Mouth ulcer

Todo List
-Bouncingmolar 10:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Palliative treatment requires reorganising.
 * seems to be alot of unsubstantiated claims.

 * Palliative treatment is gone, for all the reasons previously explained.Dr-G - Illigetimi non carborundum est. 18:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Factual Inaccuracies
For some of the same reasons listed in the topic below, the information on this page is disputed as being factually incorrect. Specifcally, some of the information presented on this page directly contradicts information in the aphthous ulcer wiki page, and some of the citations do not contain evidence to prove claims made in this article (see citation 2 on the mouth ulcer page). Since a "mouth ulcer" is in fact an apthous ulcer, and the wiki page for apthous ulcer is much more concise and accurate, I recommend that the mouth ulcer page simply redirect to apthous ulcer.

I disagree. Mouth ulcer is an incomplete article. Apthous ulcer is a (fairly) complete article. Not all mouth ulcers are apthous (despite the etymology of the word) and therefore we either split all the different types into separate articles or merge all under one heading of mouth ulcer. That would be one long piece. For instance, the ulcer resultant from the degeneration of bullae in vesiculobullous diseases is different from RA ulcers clinically and histologically, but both are ulcers because they breach the integrity of the mucosa. Dr-G - Illigetimi nil carborundum est. 17:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've been thinking about the articles recently, and I think it would be a good idea to clarify the distinction between the two. Though, I have to say that I think the Aphthous ulcer article has way too much info about unverified home remedies. - Dozenist  talk  21:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Maybe you could suggest an appropriate format for the citations to prove claims made in this article. Also I think that apthous ulcer is a variant of the umbrella term mouth ulcer. (Bouncingmolar 10:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

The page for Mouth ulcer has moved
(Bouncingmolar 16:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC))
 * The original content of the mouth ulcer page has been relocated to aphthous ulcer as the content of the page was predominantly about canker sores/ aphthous ulcers and not about mouth ulcers in general.
 * the new mouth ulcer page in this location is a heavily modified version of the original(still found at aphthous ulcer). This page now contains more information about mouth ulcers of a variety of other causes and paints a more general overview of mouth ulcers opposed to the original which focussed on apthous ulcers alone.
 * The original talk page for mouth ulcer is now also located as the talk page for aphthous ulcer as of 18 july 2006
 * Recurrent aphthous stomatitis has been merged with the aphthous ulcer page(the original 'mouth ulcer' page) as requested. (see the requests on the aphthous ulcer talk page)
 * Canker sore redicrects to this page (Mouth ulcer). Canker sore should redirect to apthous ulcer. However, I agree the apthous ulcer should be mrged with this article. ~ UBeR 18:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree it seems like this page is quite redundant with Aphthous_ulcer -- merging the two or somehow differentiating the scope of each might help. Rogerdpack (talk) 15:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Change for the better or the worse?

 * There have been some fairly heavy modification (with a lot of time spent, although this is not a factor if the information is incorrect) of this page including some injection of new information about ulcer types including references from oral pathology texts. The original content is mirrored on aphthous ulcer
 * It has been suggested to me by one user so far that maybe this page should be reverted until a consensus has been reached, and the aphthous ulcer removed. Do other people feel that this is the case? Clearly I think that the mouth ulcer page is an improvement because it now describes mouth ulcers as a whole. Furthermore I think that aphthous ulcers are merely a sub category of Mouth Ulcers, along with many other ulcer causing vectors. Are there other opinions? if so maybe i was a little bit hasty, please comment.(Bouncingmolar 07:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC))
 * My addition on electric toothbrushes being a prevention has been quickly excised by a certain Dr G. Now whilst I might agree that there is no statistically significant studies on this, members of my family have suffered from mouth ulcers all our lives. Switching to an electric toothbrush was the most significant prevention that we have all come across. My dentist recommended it. And while a sample of 5 with 100% success rate is not a statistically significant double blind study - it is very useful information to have for the sufferer out there. And the logic is obvious. Use a manual toothbrush and accidently hit it hard into the gum. Three days later there will be a painful ulcer (for those of us who get them). Use an electric toothbrush and you don't ever hit it into the gum - hence less ulcers. So I can accept that maybe my wording could be changed but I think it is a very useful piece of information for the sufferer out there who will come to this page for solutions. The other brilliant thing is Kenalog in Orabase which my doctor recommended. Those two things now prevent me suffering from mouth ulcers any more.
 * To be honest with you, it may be true that you find the frequency of ulceration decreasing over time when you use an electric toothbrush, but that is not due in any part to differences between the electric toothbrush and the manual toothbrush, but differences in how you use them. This website is not an advice page, it is an information page.  I will be editing the entire palliative care section to remove any uncited claims or treatments.  Palliative care is not treatment.  It is what is used when there is no effective treatment, ie in order to reduce symptoms experienced by the patient.  So effective treatments do not belong in this section.  Because this is not an advice website (no website should be in my opinion, medical or dental advice should be obtained from a trained diagnostician), treatments that are anecdotally successful do not belong here.  The idea that trauma triggers aphthous ulceration is sound, but your suggestion does not belong in the palliative care section, but the treatment section (possibly under preventive heading).  There may be studies to back this up.  Dr-G - Illigetimi non carborundum est. 00:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

dear doctor wikipedia
i've had little 'ulcers' or whatever in the past and they always look like the one i just got. a friend says to blame stress. here's a pic, i'll release it GFDL or whatever if you're interested (i do have a much larger version but this is just cropped, so you're not losing any detail of the actual sore): http://ibulk.net/ulcer.jpg --TIB (talk) 00:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please keep in mind that if you want real medical advice, you need to see a doctor. Most doctors will be hesitant to try to diagnose anything over the internet. - Dozenist talk  01:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting
I've always known of these as mouth blisters, as well as the rest of my family. I wonder where that name started. SadanYagci 21:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I can see how some ulcers get mistaken. If a gland get blocked it'll swell up like a blister and often, if these swellings are popped, they'll turn into ulcers. Abigsmurf 00:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Quantity of mouthwash to use?
From Prevention: Quantities around 1ml are more than sufficient.

1ml seems a ridiculously small amount of mouthwash to use, I find it hard to believe it would have any effect. A quick google shows people using 20ml -> 100ml. Where did the 1ml figure come from? Could someone remove this if there's nothing to back it up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.41.148 (talk) 18:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The section indicates that a small vessel should be used to contain the solution and, presumably, contain it against the site of injury. If this is the case, and the solution were prevented from mixing with saliva, concentrations would exceed what could normally be achieved with a much larger dose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.116.251 (talk) 22:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Bonjela
Edited the bit about gels in the treatment section:

"Some people benefit from using the over-the-counter topical gel Bonjela, which contains choline salicylate -- choline salicylate is a local analgesic that helps to reduce the pain and inflammation associated with oral ulcers."

read too much like an advert to me, so I edited it to include the possibilities of other gels that might not contain the same substances. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.235.234 (talk) 14:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Baking Soda treatment
'Also, putting baking soda directly on the sore and taking l-lysine herb has been shown to help with healing and pain.' This is unsourced. I tried it, and it BUrnnnneeeddd!!!! Badly. Someone playing a TRICK I feel. >.> <.< 58.104.146.164 (talk) 04:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I was always told that an effective alternative to bonjela is directly applying salt to the ulcer. This hurts more than my arthritis, but does seem to help. pcrtalk 22:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I was told by my doctor to press a soluable asprin against the ulcer as aspirin is an anti-infmatory drug. This seems to help stop the pain of the ulcer and it works for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.234.246 (talk) 18:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't hold aspirin tablet in the mouth, you will get a chemical burn. Unrelated, please don't misuse wikipedia talkpages, they are about the content and ways to improve the article not general discussions about the topic...lesion (talk)

This doesn't fit the requirements for inclusion in the article, but you might find it interesting anyway...
I've found that consumption of a common food preservative (Sodium Benzoate aka E211) and it's close allies (e.g. Benzoic Acid aka E210) will cause me to develop mouth ulcers around two days after exposure; continued exposure leads to an increase in both numbers and severity of ulcers. This also goes for my father and brother, but not my mother; so I suspect there may be a genetic component to this effect too. If you're suffering, try an elimination diet; pay particular attention to mouthwashes and soft drinks. Quickos (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

== INTOLLORANCE TRUST ME; try Weleda 'Medicinal gargle. 9 drops in very small amount of water 5mm in botton of narrow glass and neat as a imediate pain relief (does sting) but well worth the short moment of pain. Gargle straight after tomatoes and can help stop one starting. AVOID TOMATOES, in fact since i have completely avioded them even sauces in curries etc. Yes some tooth pastes seem to be bad, but they do not cause them. If I have even a small bit of Tomato say in a burger king wopper= mouth ulcer by the end of the day. THE DIFFERANCE with using Weleda Gargle is it will 8 times out of ten eighter not develope at all or stay small and be gone in 3 days. AND most importantly

stop the cycle of as soon as one heals another appears. All you sufferers please please do your self a favour. try this stuff it works on tounge ulcers for me also. they are definately stress related/tired. ==

No mention of ulcers on the tongue?
I suffered for years and years with several ulcers at once some growing to the size of your little fingernail. All because I used Bonjela which is THE WORST POSSIBLE TREATMENT.They came back with vengence. OMG Iwish I knew of Weleda back then. health shops sell it. A Homeopath recommeded it. Caledula did nothing but make them angry just like any other trament i tried. Best of luck. please edit this thread if you try it to let us know how you got on.

There is no mention whatsoever of cases when an ulcer would appear on the tongue. LaughingSkull (talk) 02:20, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge discussion
The result of the move request was no consensus for move. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Seems like there's a lot of overlap with aphthous ulcer and it's confusing having them as two articles. If they are to remain as two articles, they need to be synchronised as there is information in one that is not in the other. Jessed (talk) 11:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree with merger, but mouth ulcers are a subset of aphthous ulcers, e.g., , . So, I suggest reversing merge direction.  -- Scray (talk) 17:53, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree that these articles are largely duplicating each other, but the merge direction is rather ambiguous. As Scray points out, not all apthous ulcers are mouth ulcers - but as the current lead of mouth ulcer says, not all mouth ulcers are themselves apthous ulcers, with herpes sores also being included. A merge is probably warranted, I agree, but the subject matter seems to be conspiring to make the specifics of it difficult! ~ mazca  talk 08:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not support Mouth ulcers are a symptoms which may be produced by many different causes. Apthous ulcers are a specific type defined by Uptodate as "painful oral lesions that appear as localized, shallow, round, to oval ulcers with a grayish base"  Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 19:42, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Do not support per Doc James .   George Al-Shami (talk) 02:03, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

TREATMENT SECTION: Rubbing Salt or Garlic, a cure??
In the "TREATMENT" Section, some genius has suggested that rubbing Salt or Garlic can help cure mouth ulcers. And obviously thre are no citations to This is obviously a Joke, because rubbing salt or garlic is obviously going to exacerbate the lesion as one will heavy dehydrate the sorrounding and the other is a very pungent substance. I suggest this be removed with immeidate effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashish.jagyasi (talk • contribs) 10:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Smoking cessation
The cause "Smoking cessation" is listed under trauma, should it not be listed under Immune system? Mootros (talk) 07:30, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * as far as I am aware, smoking cessation is associated with specifically the onset of recurrent aphthous stomatitis rather than a cause of mouth ulcers generally. I moved mention of smoking cessation to the RAS section. lesion (talk) 08:24, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Much data confused with Recurrent aphthous stomatitis (i.e. should be on aphthous ulcer page)
For the above reason I reworked this article to be a discussion of oral ulceration generally, which is a much wider topic than RAS. Also, i had to remove the following references and associated text because either they were primary or not of an acceptable quality for a medical page:

 * ^ a b c "Mouth ulcers". North East Valley Division of General Practice. Retrieved 2006-06-18. link broken
 * ^ a b Study on 10,000 people suffering from mouth ulcers, March 2010. primary source, questionable quality as not published in peer review journal
 * ^ "Discover our study on mouth ulcers". Aftazen.co.uk. Retrieved 2012-06-04. same primary source as above
 * ^ a b T. Axéll, V. Henricsson (1985). "The occurrence of recurrent aphthous ulcers in an adult Swedish population". Acta Odontologica Scandinavica. primary source
 * ^ Herlof, Bente Brokstad; Barkvoll, Pål (1996). "The effect of two toothpaste detergents on the frequency of recurrent aphthous ulcers". Acta Odontologica Scandinavica 54 (3): 150–153. doi:10.3109/00016359609003515. .primary source
 * ^ Ussher M, West R, Steptoe A, McEwen A (March 2003). "Increase in common cold symptoms and mouth ulcers following smoking cessation". Tobacco Control 12 (1): 86–8. doi:10.1136/tc.12.1.86. PMC 1759110. . primary source
 * ^ McRobbie H, Hajek P, Gillison F (August 2004). "The relationship between smoking cessation and mouth ulcers". Nicotine & Tobacco Research 6 (4): 655–9. doi:10.1080/14622200410001734012. .primary source
 * ^ Lesion-directed dry dosage forms of antibacterial agents for the treatment of acute mucosal infections of the oral cavity, US Patent Office Full-Text and Image Database, 19 June 2001.patent?
 * Dtsch Med Wochenschr. 1993 Apr 2;118(13):451-6. [Mercury sensitization in amalgam fillings. Assessment from a dermatologic viewpoint]. [Article in German] Brehler R, Panzer B, Forck G, Bertram HP primary source

Also, some stuff is just plain wrong, herpes simplex does not cause recurrent herpetiforme ulceration.

lesion (talk) 07:35, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

herpes labialis
Is an ulcer left by rupture of a herpetic vesicle on the lips really considered as oral ulceration? None of the textbooks include this in the topic.lesion (talk) 22:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Oral electrical burns
I have no particular reason to doubt the statements about oral electrical burns, but another editor does. The following is a quotation from the Toon reference: As mentioned, oral burns are common following the frequent incidence of children inserting a live electrical cord into the mouth. Contracture of the oral commissures may result, severely limiting the motion of the patient's mouth. These oral burns can extend entirely through the lip and oral mucosa and if the necrotic zone extends into the labial artery, commonly 10-14 days after the burn, result in severe bleeding. Parents should be warned of this risk and instructed on methods of occluding the vessel. Please don't revert again unless you have a reason better than "no" (the most pathetic edit summary I've seen in a while). -- Scray (talk) 05:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

 * thank you for presenting the full material from the source which was being blatantly misrepresented as claiming that electrical mouth burns were common, rather than what the source says that they are common in a very limited circumstance. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  05:50, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Your most recent removal did not include the word "common" or any suggestion thereof. -- Scray (talk) 11:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * "No" =D hilarious. Just to add that the original source that supported that content used the words "fairly common", so it was neither "unsourced hoax" or misrepresentation of the source. Suggest red pen is trolling (again)...but look they actually didn't delete any content in their last edit! Not quite actually adding content yet, but baby steps maybe. Lesion  ( talk ) 13:18, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * tossing in a source and saying "everything in this section is verified by this source" is not a response that meets the policy of Verification which requires specific inline citations. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  15:28, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * What has happened here is that you decided to randomly delete content without properly reading it to see the citation, and you are looking to justify your behavior after the event, changing your reasons from initially stating that it was an "unsourced hoax" (despite source in text which you read/don't bother to check), then stating that the content did not accurately reflect the source. How may I ask can something not accurately represent a source and be unsourced at the same time? Now you are trying to say that there was a problem with the inline citation, and linking to your favorite policy (possibly the only policy you have read/choose to follow). There is no requirement for inline citation of every sentence, or even every paragraph. Since this section was short, there is no problem with the citation the way it was. Stop trolling. Lesion  ( talk ) 18:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I will fully and unapologetically stand by the position that this version without claims that biting through electrical cords is common is a better version than this version stating "Electrical burns in the mouth are fairly common. ". The article now contains information that accurately reflects a source, and so now unless you have additional discussion about content, we are done here. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  19:10, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

This is one way this could have been done:
 * read the section fully
 * raise the issue politely on the talk page
 * listen to the reasoning of other editors
 * work constructively towards a solution (if needed - in this case the content was not unsourced, or nonrepresentative of the source, or breaking any inline citation guideline, and therefore arguably no solution was required)

And here's another way:
 * delete content without reading it properly
 * revert the changes with no counter argument, instead leaving "no" as an edit summary
 * speak rudely to other editors on the talk pages when someone else raises the issue
 * change your reasons twice for behavior
 * fail to apologize when in the wrong and acting out, and even act as if you have contributed somehow and improved the article
 * unnecessary drama and a waste of time all round. Lesion  ( talk ) 22:12, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Healing of mouth ulcers
Occurred to me that it would be good to have a section on how mouth ulcers heal, on the cellular level. Or maybe this would be better on the oral mucosa page. Lesion ( talk ) 15:49, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Malignant ulcer image
A recent edit removed the image. I think that the differentiation between a malignant ulcer and benign causes of oral ulceration is one of the most important aspects of this topic. The best way to describe something is with a picture rather than words alone. Oral cancer usually presents late, because people have ignored a "mouth ulcer" for many weeks hoping it will go away. This gives oral cancer a poor prognosis because of the lack of awareness, and by the time the person goes to see a health care professional, the tumor is large and may have spread to the lymph nodes in the neck. I did have a look through all the pictures of malignant ulcer we had available a while ago, because someone requested more pictures on the oral cancer page. Arguably, the following image is more typical of a malignant ulcer, both in terms of appearance and site, however the image we have currently for this page excellently shows the classically described rolled margin, and it is almost on the side of the tongue so it is not in an atypical site... Lesion ( talk ) 10:49, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Cloves
I question the recent addition of the material about cloves as a treatment. The edit summary (from an anonymous editor) talks about personal experience, yet the added material seems to say it is from one of the references. I'm betting that it was just stuck in the middle of some properly referenced material, and that it really belongs after the reference, and is maybe original research. Lou Sander (talk) 02:07, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree, and I have reverted the edit which added cloves and also the previous edit which also added unreferenced material to the treatment section. 188.30.205.229 (talk) 05:51, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Wow! Great article mainly causes section
I was searching for causes for mouth ulcers and found this article much more better than [NIH http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Mouth-ulcer/Pages/Introduction.aspx] article. Thanks a lot for creating such an exhaustive article. I would like to thank to all the contributors of this article. -- Abhijeet Safai (talk) 06:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Edit war over extra image
I see BedrockPerson and 58.7.108.178/Matthew Ferguson 57 have been engaging in an edit war over adding BedrockPerson's photo of his own mouth. I can't see that the image is needed since it's highly similar to the image above it, and there is no shortage of images in the article. AntiVan (talk) 02:32, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I reverted once, that does not constitute edit war. Agree image not needed. Matthew Ferguson (talk) 08:54, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Welp, that's a bold faced lie. You reverted not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, but five times. Also, the first three reverts were within 24 hours of each other, which literally constitutes the entire definition of an edit war. So, let's not bullshit anyone here. BedrockPerson (talk) 19:05, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * You are attributing IP edits to me. At the time I stated the above I had made only one revert. There is no need for abusive language. Matthew Ferguson (talk) 22:03, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yep, fair point Matthew, that's my bad assumption. Sorry. AntiVan (talk) 23:02, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, so you are in fact not the same user. My mistake then, I was operating on AntiVan's words and nothing else. BedrockPerson (talk) 17:17, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Simplistic representation of the life cycle of mouth ulcers.
This image is problematic. It does not correspond to descriptions of the pathophysiology of mouth ulcers that I have seen. Please provide reliable references. Matthew Ferguson (talk) 21:22, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Done. BedrockPerson (talk) 22:03, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Neither of these sources contain any diagram, and they do not seem to support several aspects of the diagram. I believe this diagram is too inaccurate and has been drawn together partly with original research. Having said this, the aphthous stomatitis article might benefit from a histopathology type diagram, but one more closely based on a diagram provided by a reliable source such as a pathology textbook. Given there are so many different types of mouth ulcer with different etiologies, I feel a generic diagram beyond what is already available in the definition section is not helpful.
 *
 *

Specific issues with diagram:
 * unclear whether describing an ulcer of recurrent aphthous stomatitis or traumatic ulceration. "traumatised area" suggests this is supposed to refer to a traumatic ulcer. There are many identified triggers for aphthous ulceration beyond trauma.
 * The section described as "prodromal phase" is misleading. A prodrome is symptoms before any clinically detectable signs. I.e. if there is already inflammation / erythema visible then it can no longer be described as a prodromal phase.
 * The "pre-ulcerative phase" already seems to depict ulceration by definition as there is a breach of the epithlium. As far as I'm aware, inflammation is mainly confined to the layers beneath the epithelium, as epithelium is avascular (some immune cells may migrate out) yet this diagram identifies inflammation in the epithelium.
 * while necrotic tissue is contained within an ulcerative lesion, it is not accurate to say there is blood and bacteria. Please see definition of what an ulcer is, many will not penetrate deeply enough into the tissues to involve blood vessels. I note that the sources do not support this either, although it does state that certain types of ulcer may resemble a blood filled blister such as vesiculobullous conditions. No doubt oral bacteria will coat the surface of the lesion same as all other oral mucosal surfaces in the mouth.
 * the diagram annotated as "healthy tissue fills and envelops ulcer" is also questionable. As far as I'm aware epithelium will regenerate from the deeper layers near the basement membrane.
 * "remission" in the context of aphthous stomatitis refers to a period without any ulcers. It does not define healing of an individual lesion site.

I have informed WT:MED for more opinions on this issue, kindly do not re-add this contentious diagram until there is a clear consensus to do so. Many thanks, Matthew Ferguson (talk) 09:36, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Maybe a textbook on pathophysiology would have details? But yes need a better reference than a small primary source. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 06:34, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

RAS is used without definition
the abbreviation RAS is used here without being introduced. could someone who knows what it is kindly add the definition and link? 108.14.251.104 (talk) 13:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

"Cancer sore"
"Cancer sore" redirects to this article now; does this term actually refer to mouth ulcers instead of sores that are caused by cancer? Jarble (talk) 22:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Mouth ulcer


text: Category:Leicester

title: Category:Leicester


text:
House of Accolti

The Accolti family is an Italian noble family of Tuscan origin, appearing in Arezzo around 1300. Members of the family held significant ecclesiastical positions, were famous for their learning and became prominent in the 15th and 16th century literature.

Notable members

 * Benedetto Accolti the Elder (1415–1466)
 * Benedetto Accolti the Younger (1497–1549), Italian cardinal, son of Michele Accolti, nephew of Pietro Accolti
 * Francesco Accolti (c. 1416-c. 1488)
 * Pietro Accolti (1455–1532)
 * Bernardo Accolti (1465-c. 1536)

title: House of Accolti


text: User talk:83.170.59.67

title: User talk:83.170.59.67


text:
Epitrochoid

In geometry, an epitrochoid ( or ) is a roulette traced by a point attached to a circle of radius $r$ rolling around the outside of a fixed circle of radius $R$, where the point is at a distance $d$ from the center of the exterior circle.

The parametric equations for an epitrochoid are:

 * $$\begin{align}

& x (\theta) = (R + r)\cos\theta - d\cos\left({R + r \over r}\theta\right) \\ & y (\theta) = (R + r)\sin\theta - d\sin\left({R + r \over r}\theta\right) \end{align}$$ The parameter $θ$ is geometrically the polar angle of the center of the exterior circle. (However, $θ$ is not the polar angle of the point $$(x(\theta),y(\theta))$$ on the epitrochoid.)

Special cases include the limaçon with $R = 3$ and the epicycloid with $r = 1$.

The classic Spirograph toy traces out epitrochoid and hypotrochoid curves.

The paths of planets in the once popular geocentric system of deferents and epicycles are epitrochoids with $$d>r,$$ for both the outer planets and the inner planets.

The orbit of the Moon, when centered around the Sun, approximates an epitrochoid.

The combustion chamber of the Wankel engine is an epitrochoid.

title: Epitrochoid


text:
Demeton-S-methyl

Demeton-S-methyl is an organic compound with the molecular formula C6H15O3PS2. It was used as an organothiophosphate acaricide and organothiophosphate insecticide. It is flammable. With prolonged storage, Demeton-S-methyl becomes more toxic due to formation of a sulfonium derivative which has greater affinity to the human form of the acetylcholinesterase enzyme, and this may present a hazard in agricultural use.

History
Demeton-S-methyl was first described in 1950 by Schrader and was widely adopted as a pesticide because of the lower toxicity to humans than the previously used demeton. In its beginning days, it was mostly used together with demeton-O-methyl in an O:S ratio of 70:30. From 1957 onward, only pure demeton-S-methyl was used. Because of its high toxicity and severe toxic effects to humans, demeton-S-methyl is now classified as a highly toxic substance by the World Health Organization and is banned from agricultural use worldwide.

Structure and reactivity
Demeton-S-Methyl is a compound that is closely related to VX in terms of structure. The structure is C6H15O3PS2. Demeton-S-Methyl has a molecular weight of 230.28 g/mol. It appears as a colourless to slightly yellow coloured oily liquid with a garlic like odor. Its density is 1.2 g/cm3, which makes it slightly heavier than water. The melting points and boiling points are <25 °C (<77 °F) and 118 °C (244 °F) respectively, although the compound decomposes before reaching the boiling point. The relatively low 0,0004 mmHg (at 20 C) means Demeton-S-Methyl will vaporize very slowly and mostly stay as a liquid. Demeton-S-Methyl is less stable than its predecessor Demeton, but it is used instead because of the lower toxicity to humans. Demeton-S-methyl is hydrolyzed quickly in alkaline media. Demeton-S-methyl is readily soluble in water and most organic compounds.

Synthesis
There are three ways of synthesizing Demeton-S-methyl. It can be made by a reaction between Thiodiglycol and dimethyl thiophosphate. Here the sulfur in dimethyl thiophosphate attacks on one of the oxygens of thiodiglycol. One of the oxygens of dimethyl thiophosphate in turn forms a double bond with the phosphate and losing its hydrogen which forms water with the hydroxyl on the other side of the thiodiglycol. The second synthesis route is by alkylation of Dimethyl dithiophosphoric acid with 2-(ethylmercapto)-ethyl chloride. The third way is through  the reaction of 2-(ethylthio)-ethanol, which is similar to thiodiglycol minus one of the hydroxyl groups, and O,O-dimethyl phosphochlorothioate. This happens through alcohol chlorination, hydrolysis and dehydrochlorination respectively.

Available forms
Demeton-S-methyl is still available as a solution, however its use is banned in most countries because of the severe toxicity.

Mechanism of action
Demeton-S-methyl inhibits cholinesterase, which takes care of the breakdown of acetylcholine (AChE). In the presence of Demeton-S-methyl, an accumulation of AChE occurs, which can result in impeded neurotransmission. This can lead to impaired muscle function and even suffocation resulting in death.

Metabolism
Animal experiments show that almost all demeton-S-methyl derivatives are excreted through urine. Most of the demeton-S-methyl is converted to demeton-S-methyl sulfoxide, where an oxygen group is added to the sulfur in the side chain. This sulfoxide can then be further metabolised by adding another oxygen group, creating demeton-S-methyl sulfone. Another pathway to metabolise demeton-S-methyl is to demethylate the oxygen group(s) of demeton. Again, this demethylated form can occur in an sulfoxide and sulfone form. Lastly, de-esterification of the O-methylphosphoric ester group can occur which will be followed by methylation and sulfoxidation. This will lead to the formation of methyl sulfinyl-2-ethyl sulfinyl ethane and methyl sulfinyl-2-ethyl sulfonyl ethane.

Uses
Demeton-S-Methyl is an organic phosphorus compound that has been used as an effective insecticide and acaricide in agriculture, mainly against plant-sucking arthropod pests. It was applied for control of aphids, mites, and whiteflies on fruit, vegetables, potatoes, beet and hops. Demeton-S-Methyl is absorbed and distributed within the plant, allowing concentrations to reach high enough levels to kill the insects that feed on the plant by sucking its juices.

In agriculture, methyl demeton was used in a mixture of the O-isomer and the S-isomer in an approximate ratio of 70:30. However, the S-isomer was found to be more toxic against insects than the O-isomer. When the purified S-isomer form was introduced and availability rose, it replaced the mixture in agriculture.

Effects on human health
A lot of data on the toxicity of methyl-S-demeton comes from case studies, often with persons who have been exposed to the chemical occupationally. Methyl-S-demeton was sprayed on the plants by sprayers, who were often temporarily employed. In a study with sprayers that used methyl-S-demeton occupationally the health implications were assessed. The sprayers worked 8 hours a day, and symptoms of intoxication occurred after one to 18 days of exposure. The main signs of toxicity included drowsiness, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhoea, nausea, fatigue, headache, respiratory problems, salivation and lachrymation. Serum-cholinesterase levels were lowered by 64% in 25 sprayers when compared to control persons.

In one case of poisoning, ingestion of 50 to 500 mg of methyl-S-demeton/kg body weight resulted in acute cardiovascular collapse and death 83 hours after exposure. A second case-study involves a farmer who was exposed to the chemical on at least 23 occasions for periods varying from 20 minutes to $6 3/4$ hours, mostly during his work as a marker in aerial spraying but also during the preparation of the chemical. He developed headaches, nausea and dizziness during the working week which subsided during the weekend. Later, he developed anorexia and had difficulty performing simple cognitive tasks. He was admitted to the hospital where it was found that his serum-cholinesterase levels were very low. He was discharged when these levels rose to acceptable levels. In another case, a two-year-old boy was admitted to the hospital after ingestion of 10 ml of demeton-S-methyl. Symptoms included excessive salivation, vomiting, bronchial hypersecretion, muscarinic effects on pulse rate and pupil size, and slight bradycardia. In this case, too, serum-cholinesterase levels were significantly lowered, but returned to baseline after admission to the hospital. Lastly, one case of lethal suicide intoxication with demeton-S-methyl has been reported.

Toxicity
The Joint FAO/WHO Meeting on Pesticide Residues (JMPR) concluded that demeton-S-methyl is a highly toxic organophosphorus insecticide. Effects due to chronic exposure are unlikely to occur. Furthermore, demeton-S-methyl does not persist in the environment and is not accumulated by organisms. However, demeton-S-methyl has a high acute toxicity towards aquatic invertebrates and is also toxic to birds and fish. The JMPR recommended ADI (acceptable daily intake) is 0.0003 mg/kg body weight. The LD50 values of demeton-S-methyl for mammals range from 7 to 100 mg/kg body weight, depending on the route of administration and species.

Oral LD50 values of demeton-S-methyl in rats were between 33 and 129 mg/kg body weight. When the toxin was inhaled, the LC50 with 4 hours of exposure for Wistar rats was found to be 310 mg/m3 air for males, and 210 mg/m3 air for females. In dietary studies on dogs, mice and rats, NOAEL (No Observed Adverse Effect Level) values of 1 mg/kg diet were found. These values are equal to a NOAEL range of 0.036 to 0.24 mg/kg body weight per day.

Analysis
Hrynko et al. 2021 provides an analysis method for detection of Demeton-S-methyl and Demeton-S-methyl-sulfone intoxication of bees.

title: Demeton-S-methyl


text: User talk:81.174.156.93

title: User talk:81.174.156.93


text:
User:Shakespeare

The Fin Project: From Swords into Plowshares was created by pubic artist John T. Young http://faculty.washington.edu/jtyoung/fins.html

title: User:Shakespeare


text: Category:Prime ministers of Lebanon

title: Category:Prime ministers of Lebanon


text:
Flidais

Flidas or Flidais (modern spelling: Fliodhas, Fliodhais) is a female figure in Irish Mythology, known by the epithet Foltchaín ("beautiful hair"). She is believed to have been a goddess of cattle and fertility.

Mythology
Flidas is mentioned in the Metrical Dindshenchas as mother of Fand, and in the Lebor Gabála Érenn as the mother of Argoen, Bé Téite, Dinand and Bé Chuille. Dinand and Bé Chuille are mentioned as "she-farmers" in a passage about Dian Cecht in Lebor Gabála Érenn and as witches in the Second Battle of Moytura, where they agree to enchant the trees, stones, and sods of the earth to become a host under arms. In the Middle Irish glossary Cóir Anmann ("Fitness of Names") Flidas is said to be the wife of the legendary High King Adamair and the mother of Nia Segamain.

The Ulster Cycle tale "The Tidings of Conchobar" says that it took seven women to satisfy Fergus, unless he could have Flidais. Her affair with Fergus is the subject of oral tradition in County Mayo.

Cattle raid epics
The myths relating to Fliodhais overwhelmingly focus on cattle.

Flidais is a central figure in Táin Bó Flidhais ("The Driving-off of Flidais's Cattle"), an Ulster Cycle work, where she is the lover of Fergus mac Róich and the owner of a magical herd of cattle. The story, set in Erris, County Mayo tells how Fergus carried her and her cattle away from her husband, Ailill Finn.

During the Táin Bó Cúailnge (Cattle Raid of Cooley) she slept in the tent of Ailill mac Máta, king of Connacht, and every seven days her herd supplied milk for the entire army. In Táin Bó Flidhais she has a favoured white cow known as "The Maol" which can feed 300 men from one night's milking.

Outdated interpretations
In the recent past Flidais was popularly rendered as a woodland goddess similar to the Greek Artemis and Roman Diana. Scholars now believe this to be incorrect.

Her son, Nia Segamain, was able to milk wild deer as if they were cows by power received from his mother. This indirect association with deer, and her consequent attribution as a woodland goddess is based on an unlikely medieval folk etymology of her name as flid ois or "wetness of a faun". This etymology may have been an effort to conflate Flidais with the deer maiden, Sadhbh from the Fenian Cycle; however, Fliodhais' mythology overwhelmingly focuses only on domestic cattle and milking.

title: Flidais


text:
Color cycling

Color cycling, also known as palette shifting or palette animation, is a technique used in computer graphics in which colors are changed in order to give the impression of animation. This technique was used in early video games, as storing one image and changing its palette requires less memory and processor power than storing multiple frames of animation.

Examples of use

 * The Windows 9x boot screen used color cycling to provide animation.
 * The 3D maze screensaver included with earlier versions of Windows used color cycling to animate the four fractal textures available.
 * The Amiga Boing Ball cycled the ball's checkerboard pattern between red and white to create the illusion of the ball rotating. The same technique was used by Sonic the Hedgehog 3 on the Sega Genesis in its bonus stages featuring a rolling checkerboard sphere.
 * SimCity 2000 made extensive use of this technique: every building with animation had its animation provided by color cycling. This was used to provide effects such as blinking lights, flowing water, cars moving on roads, and even four frames of animation displaying on a tiny movie screen in a drive-in theater.
 * Many adventure games used color cycling to simulate moving water, lava and similar effects.
 * Mickey Mania, on the Sega Genesis, used color cycling to simulate ground movement in a pseudo-3D section.

Approach
Color cycling is powered by changing specific colors in a color palette that gives the illusion of animation. To quote Mark Ferrari:

"At the simplest, most basic level, color cycling creates the illusion of animated movement in pretty much the same way light bulbs on a theater marquee do.

When the light bulbs on a theater marquee flash off and on in the right sequence it LOOKS like little dashes of light are chasing one another around the perimeter of the sign. But, as we all know, the individual light bulbs are not moving - only turning off and on in a coordinated sequence that creates the illusion of movement. In color cycling, each affected pixel on screen is holding completely still, like those marquee light bulbs, but changing colors in a looping sequence - which, in coordination with all the adjacent pixels changing colors in their own offset sequences creates the illusion of moving bands of color."

title: Color cycling


text:
Wallace Roney

Wallace Roney (May 25, 1960 – March 31, 2020) was an American jazz (hard bop and post-bop) trumpeter. He has won 1 Grammy award and has two nominations.

Roney took lessons from Clark Terry and Dizzy Gillespie and studied with Miles Davis from 1985 until the latter's death in 1991. Wallace credited Davis as having helped to challenge and shape his creative approach to life as well as being his music instructor, mentor, and friend; he was the only trumpet player Davis personally mentored.

Early life and education
Roney was born in Philadelphia. He attended Howard University and Berklee College of Music in Boston, Massachusetts, after graduating from the Duke Ellington School of the Arts of the D. C. Public Schools, where he studied trumpet with Langston Fitzgerald of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. Found to have perfect pitch at the age of four, Wallace began his musical and trumpet studies at Philadelphia's Settlement School of Music.

He studied with trumpeter Sigmund Hering of the Philadelphia Orchestra for three years. Hering regularly presented Wallace at recitals at the Settlement School, and with the Philadelphia Brass Ensemble, during his studies in Philadelphia.

Career
When he entered the Duke Ellington School, Roney had already made his recording debut at age 15 with Nation and Haki R. Madhubuti, and at that time met, among others, Bill Hardman, Valery Ponomarev, Woody Shaw (who befriended him), Johnny Coles and Freddie Hubbard. He played with the Cedar Walton Quartet featuring Billy Higgins, Sam Jones, and Philly Joe Jones at 16 years of age with the encouragement of his high school teacher.

Roney attained distinction as a gifted local performer in the Washington, D.C area. In 1979 and 1980, Roney won the DownBeat Award for Best Young Jazz Musician of the Year, and in 1989 and 1990 the DownBeat Magazine's Critic's Poll for Best Trumpeter to Watch.

In 1983, while taking part in a tribute to Miles Davis at "The Bottom Line" in Manhattan, he met his idol. "He [Davis] asked me what kind of trumpet I had," Roney told Time magazine, "and I told him none. So he gave me one of his." In 1984 and 1985, he was forced to play in Latin dance and reception bands, as the New York clubs, once a prominent part of the jazz scene, had mostly disappeared. But in 1986, he received a pair of calls, in the same month, to tour with drummers Tony Williams and Art Blakey, after which Roney became one of the most in-demand trumpet players on the professional circuit.

In 1986, he succeeded Terence Blanchard in Blakey's Jazz Messengers. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, he was an integral part of Williams's quintet. In 1991, Roney played with Davis at the Montreux Jazz Festival. After Davis's death that year, Roney toured in memoriam with Davis alumni Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams and recorded an album, A Tribute to Miles, for which they won a Grammy Award.

Roney learned his craft directly from Miles Davis. Critics have taken Roney to task for sounding too similar to his idol. Roney recorded his debut album as a leader, Verses, on Muse Records in 1987. A number of albums on Muse, Warner Bros. Records and Concord Records/Stretch Records followed, and by the time he turned 40 in 2000 Roney had been documented on over 250 audio recordings. His album titles from the 2000s include Mystikal (2005) and Jazz (2007) on HighNote Records. His two most recent albums are A Place in Time (HighNote 2016) and Blue Dawn - Blue Nights (HighNote 2019), which features his nephew, drummer Kojo Roney.

Personal life
Wallace Roney was the son of Wallace Roney, U.S. Marshal and President of the American Federation of Government Employees Local 102, grandson of Philadelphia musician Roosevelt Sherman, and older brother of tenor and soprano saxophonist Antoine Roney. In 1995, Roney married pianist Geri Allen, with whom he had two daughters and a son. The marriage ended prior to Allen's death in 2017. The two artists collaborated on records on many occasions during the 1990s and 2000s, on records released under each artist's name.

Earlier in his life, Roney had been a resident of Montclair, New Jersey.

Death
Wallace Roney died at the age of 59 on March 31, 2020, at St. Joseph's University Medical Center in Paterson, New Jersey. The cause was complications arising from COVID-19.

Movie credits

 * 2001 - The Visit - Jordan Walker-Perlman - music arrangement
 * 1996 - Love Jones - music arrangement

As leader/co-leader
Compilation
 * No Job Too Big or Small (32 Jazz, 2003) – Muse recordings

As a member
Superblue
 * Superblue 2 (Blue Note, 1990) – rec. 1989

As sideman
With Geri Allen
 * Maroons (Blue Note, 1992)
 * Eyes in the Back of Your Head (Blue Note, 1997) – rec. 1995-96
 * The Gathering (Verve, 1998)
 * Timeless Portraits and Dreams (Telarc, 2006)

With Cindy Blackman
 * Arcane (Muse, 1988) – rec. 1987
 * Code Red (Muse, 1992) – rec. 1990

With Art Blakey
 * Killer Joe with George Kawaguchi (Union Jazz, 1982) – rec. 1981
 * Art Blakey And Jazz Messengers ("San Marco Cafe", Miami, FL, January 11, 1986) (Arco 3, 1990) – rec. 1986
 * Feeling Good (Delos, 1986)

With Chick Corea
 * Remembering Bud Powell (Stretch, 1997) – rec. 1996
 * The Musician (Concord Jazz, 2017)[3CD]

With Vincent Herring
 * Evidence (Landmark, 1991) – rec. 1990
 * Dawnbird (Landmark, 1993) – rec. 1991-92
 * Simple Pleasure (HighNote, 2001)

With Tony Williams
 * Civilization (Blue Note, 1987) – rec. 1986
 * Angel Street (Blue Note, 1988)
 * Native Heart (Blue Note, 1990) – rec. 1989
 * Tokyo Live (Blue Note, 1993)[2CD] – live rec. 1992

With others
 * Kenny Barron, What If? (Enja, 1986)
 * Samuel Blaser, Early in the Mornin' (OutNote, 2018) – rec. 2017
 * Donald Brown, Born to be Blue (Space Time, 2013)
 * Terri Lyne Carrington, Jazz Is a Spirit (ACT, 2002)
 * Joey DeFrancesco, Where Were You? (Columbia, 1990)
 * Miles Davis, Miles & Quincy Live at Montreux also with Quincy Jones (Warner Bros., 1993) – rec. 1991
 * Bill Evans, Escape (Escapade Music, 1996)
 * Ricky Ford, Interpretations (Muse, 1982)
 * Letizia Gambi, Introducing Letizia Gambi (Jando Music|Via Veneto Jazz, 2012)
 * Kenny Garrett, Garrett 5 (Paddle Wheel, 1989) - recorded in 1988
 * Dizzy Gillespie, To Diz with Love (Telarc, 1992)
 * Helen Merrill, Brownie: Homage to Clifford Brown (Verve, 1994)
 * David Murray, Geri Allen, and Terri Lyne Carrington, Perfection (Motéma, 2016)
 * Makoto Ozone, Three Wishes (Verve, 1998) – rec. 1997
 * Powerhouse, In an Ambient Way (Chesky, 2015)
 * David Sanborn, Inside (Elektra, 1999)
 * Jarmo Savolainen, First Sight (Timeless, 1992)
 * James Spaulding, Brilliant Corners (Muse, 1990) – rec. 1988
 * Joe Louis Walker, Pasa Tiempo (Evidence Music, 2002)
 * Randy Weston and Melba Liston, Volcano Blues (Verve, 1993)
 * Christopher Hollyday, Christopher Hollyday (BMG, 1989)

title: Wallace Roney


text:
Subjunctive possibility

Subjunctive possibility (also called alethic possibility) is a form of modality studied in modal logic. Subjunctive possibilities are the sorts of possibilities considered when conceiving counterfactual situations; subjunctive modalities are modalities that bear on whether a statement might have been or could be true—such as might, could, must, possibly, necessarily, contingently, essentially, accidentally, and so on. Subjunctive possibilities include logical possibility, metaphysical possibility, nomological possibility, and temporal possibility.

Subjunctive possibility and other modalities
Subjunctive possibility is contrasted with (among other things) epistemic possibility (which deals with how the world may be, for all we know) and deontic possibility (which deals with how the world ought to be).

Epistemic possibility
The contrast with epistemic possibility is especially important to draw, since in ordinary language the same phrases ("it's possible," "it can't be", "it must be") are often used to express either sort of possibility. But they are not the same. We do not know whether Goldbach's conjecture is true or not (no-one has come up with a proof yet); so it is (epistemically) possible that it is true and it is (epistemically) possible that it is false. But if it is, in fact, provably true (as it may be, for all we know), then it would have to be (subjunctively) necessarily true; what being provable means is that it would not be (logically) possible for it to be false. Similarly, it might not be at all (epistemically) possible that it is raining outside—we might know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not—but that would hardly mean that it is (subjunctively) impossible for it to rain outside. This point is also made by Norman Swartz and Raymond Bradley.

Deontic possibility
There is some overlap in language between subjunctive possibilities and deontic possibilities: for example, we sometimes use the statement "You can/cannot do that" to express (i) what it is or is not subjunctively possible for you to do, and we sometimes use it to express (ii) what it would or would not be right for you to do. The two are less likely to be confused in ordinary language than subjunctive and epistemic possibility as there are some important differences in the logic of subjunctive modalities and deontic modalities. In particular, subjunctive necessity entails truth: if people logically must such and such, then you can infer that they actually do it. But in this non-ideal world, a deontic ‘must’ does not carry the moral certitude that people morally must do such and such.

Types of subjunctive possibility
There are several different types of subjunctive modality, which can be classified as broader or more narrow than one another depending on how restrictive the rules for what counts as "possible" are. Some of the most commonly discussed are:

 * Logical possibility is usually considered the broadest sort of possibility; a proposition is said to be logically possible if there is no logical contradiction involved in its being true. "Dick Cheney is a bachelor" is logically possible, though in fact false; most philosophers have thought that statements like "If I flap my arms very hard, I will fly" are logically possible, although they are nomologically impossible. "Dick Cheney is a married bachelor," on the other hand, is logically impossible; anyone who is a bachelor is therefore not married, so this proposition is logically self-contradictory (though the sentence isn't, because it is logically possible for "bachelor" to mean "married man").
 * Metaphysical possibility is either equivalent to logical possibility or narrower than it (what a philosopher thinks the relationship between the two is depends, in part, on the philosopher's view of logic). Some philosophers have held that discovered identities such as Kripke's "Water is H2O" are metaphysically necessary but not logically necessary (they would claim that there is no formal contradiction involved in "Water is not H2O" even though it turns out to be metaphysically impossible).
 * Nomological possibility is possibility under the actual laws of nature. Most philosophers since David Hume have held that the laws of nature are metaphysically contingent—that there could have been different natural laws than the ones that actually obtain. If so, then it would not be logically or metaphysically impossible, for example, for you to travel to Alpha Centauri in one day; it would just have to be the case that you could travel faster than the speed of light. But of course there is an important sense in which this is not possible; given that the laws of nature are what they are, there is no way that you could do it. (Some philosophers, such as Sydney Shoemaker, have argued that the laws of nature are in fact necessary, not contingent; if so, then nomological possibility is equivalent to metaphysical possibility.)
 * Temporal possibility is possibility given the actual history of the world. David Lewis could have chosen to take his degree in Accounting rather than Philosophy; but there is an important sense in which he cannot now. The "could have" expresses the fact that there is no logical, metaphysical, or even nomological impossibility involved in Lewis's having a degree in Economics instead of Philosophy; the "cannot now" expresses the fact that that possibility is no longer open to becoming actual, given that the past is as it actually is.

Similarly David Lewis could have taken a degree in Economics but not in, say, Aviation (because it was not taught at Harvard) or Cognitive Neuroscience (because the so-called 'conceptual space' for such a major did not exist). There is some debate whether this final type of possibility in fact constitutes a type of possibility distinct from Temporal, and is sometimes called Historical Possibility by thinkers like Ian Hacking.

title: Subjunctive possibility


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Talk:Jill Craigie

Notable
Why is this page a candidate for deletion? Craigie was a significant pioneer in the British film industry; much more than a "political wife." Normally she is in film reference books, see Brian MacFarlane's "Encyclopedia of British Film". Philip Cross 15:34, 26 February 2005

 * It looks like this page has been worked on since the speedy-deletion tag was added. I've removed the tag now. Stephen Turner 15:48, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio
This article was clearly sourced from the Jill Craigie biography written by Sarah Easen for the Screenonline site (http://www.screenonline.org.uk/people/id/581828/), which is copyright of the British Film Institute. Although some minor changes have been made (mostly cuts), the structure, content and even the wording of several sentences is essentially identical, and goes far beyond any possible definition of "fair use". Furthermore, the author has not been credited as the source, and neither has a link been offered to her work. I therefore suggest deleting the bulk of this piece and replacing it with a link to the original article - which, being longer than the plagiarised version, will hopefully prove more valuable to your readers.
 * I've attempted to rewrite this to avoid any copyright violation. Please feel free to edit more if you think it's required.  howch e  ng   {chat} 00:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC

 * I've reverted to the pre-copyvio version, per wp:cp. Please remember, copyrights extend to derivitive works. --Duk 01:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

First marriage

 * I seem to remember that she was married to the novellist Jeffrey Dell before she met foot in 1945 while filming The Way We Live in Plymouth, which would explain her being credited as Jill Dell on The Flemish Farm. I can't find any references to hand, though. LDGE (16 June 2006)

Year of birth?
It says in the article that Jill Craigie was born in 1911, however she is under the category of 1914 births. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LienEmpire (talk • contribs) 05:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Corrected. The screenonline page cited above gives 1911 in the heading, but 1914 in the text. A previously included claim for 1911, citing a Camden New Journal article, is not sustained by the source. Philip Cross (talk) 13:21, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

However using Ancestry.co.uk we find her death record as the following -

Name: Jill Foot Birth Date: 7 Mar 1911 Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1999 Age at death (estimated): 88 Registration district: Camden Inferred County: London Register number: C47A District and Subdistrict: 2501C Entry number: 176

We also find her birth record -

Name: Noreen J Craigie Year of Registration: 1911 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Fulham County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 340

Surely this is enough evidence to support 1911? --90.202.84.78 (talk) 16:36, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Rape allegation - Maths
The text says: "In 1998, a biography of the late Hungarian-born writer Arthur Koestler by David Cesarani alleged Koestler had been a serial rapist and that Craigie had been one of his victims in 1951. Craigie confirmed the allegations. (...) Michael Scammell countered that Craigie was the only woman to go on record that she had been raped by Koestler, and had revealed this at a dinner party over fifty years after the alleged incident."

That must be wrong. If the incident took place in 1951, Craigie, who died in 1999, cannot have revealed it "over fifty years later" because she would have been dead by then, neither could it appear in a book published in 1998. The wording strongly suggests that Craigie revealed the incident "at a dinner party" in some moment, but surely before 1998, at this was picked up by Cesarani and confirmed by Craigie later. So it might be "almost 50 years later", but not "over". If somebody has read the book by Cesarani or the one by Scammell, they might recall when that dinner party was said to take place. Just to get the maths right. Ilyacadiz (talk) 16:34, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jill Craigie


text:
User talk:Shadowhillway

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Shadowhillway! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 2 of the articles that you created  are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the list:

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 * 1) Mark Isham -
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ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:Shadowhillway


text:
User talk:Gullinbrusti

Anaerobic Digestion
Sorry if my comments seemed brusque. No criticism was intended - its good to see a useful article taking shape. I have done some editing based mostly on UK sewage treatment and agricultural waste experience. We probably need articles or references for acidogenesis and acetagenesis if these terms are to stay in here. Looks like a good start. Velela 15:36, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Gullinbrusti


text:
List of number-one singles in Australia during the 1980s

The following lists the number one singles on the Australian Singles Chart, along with other substantial hits, during the 1980s. The source for this decade is the Kent Music Report (retitled as Australian Music Report in 1987), and the ARIA Charts.

1980s Australian charts
Two sets of charts ran in Australia in the late 1980s. The Kent Music Report began publication in 1974 as Australia's official national charts. From mid-1983, the Australian Recording Industry Association (or ARIA) licensed the Kent Music Report (which was renamed the 'Australian Music Report' in 1987). ARIA commenced compiling its own charts in-house from the week ending 26 June 1988 (a Sunday). These charts ran concurrent to what was by then known as the Australian Music Report. The Australian Music Report charts ceased commercial publishing in 1999.

Both the Kent Music Report / Australian Music Report chart data (1980–1989) and the ARIA chart data (starting from their commencement in mid-1983) are listed below. The Kent Music Report / Australian Music Report chart data is taken from the "Australian Chart Book 1970–92", published by David Kent, while the ARIA chart data is taken from australia-charts.com.

The dates given for the Kent Music Report / Australian Music Report are Mondays.

1980 (Kent Music Report)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Dreaming My Dreams with You" by Colleen Hewett, "Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2)" by Pink Floyd, "Brass in Pocket" by The Pretenders, "Coming Up" by Paul McCartney, "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'" by Long John Baldry and Kathi McDonald, "What I Like About You" by The Romantics, "Xanadu" by Olivia Newton-John and Electric Light Orchestra, "Babooshka" by Kate Bush, and "Master Blaster (Jammin')" by Stevie Wonder.

Other hits (with their peak positions noted) were "Space Invaders" (3) by Player One, "Ashes to Ashes" (3) by David Bowie, "Do That to Me One More Time" (3) by Captain & Tennille, "Fame" (3) by Irene Cara, "He's My Number One" (4) by Christie Allen, "Call Me" (4) and "The Tide Is High" (4) by Blondie, "Blame It on the Boogie" (4) by The Jacksons, and "Shandi" (5) by KISS.

Hits by Australasian artists included "Magic" by Olivia Newton-John, "People" by Mi-Sex, "No Secrets" by The Angels, "You Shook Me All Night Long" by AC/DC and "Can't Help Myself" and "We Can Get Together" by Flowers.

1981 (Kent Music Report)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Stop the Cavalry" and "Louise (We Get It Right)" by Jona Lewie, "Angel of the Morning" by Juice Newton, "Who Can It Be Now?" by Men at Work, "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic" by The Police, and "Wired for Sound" by Cliff Richard.

"Turn Me Loose" by Loverboy, "Girls Can Get It" by Dr. Hook, "Keep On Loving You" by REO Speedwagon, "Gotta Pull Myself Together" by The Nolans and "In the Air Tonight" by Phil Collins all peaked at number 3. Other major hits (with their peak positions) were "Jesse" by Carly Simon (4), "Kids in America" by Kim Wilde (5) and "Precious to Me" by Phil Seymour (6).

Hits by Australasian artists included "If I Were a Carpenter" by Swanee, "Bad Habits" by Billy Field, "Boys in Town" by Divinyls and "State of the Heart" by Mondo Rock.

1982 (Kent Music Report)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Our Lips Are Sealed" by The Go-Go's, "Theme from The Greatest American Hero (Believe It or Not)" by Joey Scarbury, "Ebony and Ivory" by Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder, "Key Largo" by Bertie Higgins, "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" by Split Enz, "If You Want My Love" by Cheap Trick, and "Shy Boy" by Bananarama.

Other hits (with peak positions shown) included "Waiting for a Girl Like You" (3) by Foreigner, "Young Turks" (3) by Rod Stewart, "Hard to Say I'm Sorry" (4) by Chicago, "You Should Hear How She Talks About You" (4) by Melissa Manchester, "Da Da Da" (4) by Trio, "Poison Arrow" (4) by ABC, "Homosapien" (4) by Pete Shelley, "Hurts So Good" (5) by John "Cougar" Mellencamp, "Hungry Like the Wolf" (5) by Duran Duran and "Cambodia" (7) by Kim Wilde.

Hits by Australasian artists included "Forever Now" by Cold Chisel, "Body and Soul" by Jo Kennedy, "Solid Rock" by Goanna, "Great Southern Land" by Icehouse, "Dirty Creature" by Split Enz, "Down on the Border" by Little River Band and "Lady, What's Your Name" by Swanee.

1983 (Kent Music Report/ARIA Charts)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Heartbreaker" by Dionne Warwick, "Twisting by the Pool" (EP) by Dire Straits, "Let's Dance" by David Bowie, "1999" by Prince, "Beat It" by Michael Jackson, "Every Breath You Take" by The Police, "Electric Avenue" by Eddy Grant, "Maniac" by Michael Sembello, "Rain" by Dragon, "Bop Girl" by Pat Wilson, and "Red Red Wine" by UB40.

Other major hits (with peak positions noted) included "Save Your Love" (3) by Renee and Renato, "Give It Up" (3) by KC and the Sunshine Band, "I'm Still Standing" (3) by Elton John, "You Can't Hurry Love" (3) by Phil Collins, "I.O.U." (3) by Freeez, "I Eat Cannibals" (4) by Toto Coelo, "Young Guns" (4) by Wham!, "The Safety Dance" (5) by Men Without Hats, "Africa" (5) by Toto, and "Drop the Pilot" (6) by Joan Armatrading.

Hits by Australasian artists also included "Send Me an Angel" by Real Life, "Fraction Too Much Friction" by Tim Finn, "Shoop Shoop Diddy Wop Cumma Cumma Wang Dang" by Monte Video and the Cassettes, "Overkill" and "Dr. Heckyll & Mr. Jive" by Men at Work, and "Power and the Passion" by Midnight Oil.

1984 (Kent Music Report/ARIA Charts)
Other hits

The year's best charting single was Bruce Springsteen's "Dancing in the Dark". Despite having only reached number 5 on the singles chart, it remained on the charts for 40 weeks.

Songs peaking at number two included "Come Said the Boy" by Mondo Rock, "Radio Ga Ga" by Queen, "Jump" by Van Halen, "Heaven (Must Be There)" by Eurogliders, "Ghostbusters" by Ray Parker Jr., "The War Song" by Culture Club, and "Caribbean Queen (No More Love on the Run)" by Billy Ocean.

Other major hits (with peak position noted) included "Calling Your Name" (3) by Marilyn, "Against All Odds (Take a Look at Me Now)" (3) by Phil Collins, "I Can Dream About You" (3) by Dan Hartman, "Hold Me Now" (3) by Thompson Twins, "Thriller" (4) by Michael Jackson, "Pride (In the Name of Love)" (4) by U2, "Sad Songs (Say So Much)" (4) by Elton John, and "Relax" (5) and "Two Tribes" (4) by Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

Hits by Australasian artists also included "Listening" and "A Beat for You" both by Pseudo Echo, "I Send a Message" and "Burn for You" by INXS, "Twist of Fate" by Olivia Newton-John, "Soul Kind of Feeling" by Dynamic Hepnotics and "Catch Me I'm Falling" by Real Life.

1985 (Kent Music Report/ARIA Charts)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Born in the U.S.A." by Bruce Springsteen, "Ti Amo" by Laura Branigan, "Barbados" by Models, "The Heat Is On" by Glenn Frey, "One More Night" by Phil Collins, "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" by Tears for Fears, "Can't Fight This Feeling" by REO Speedwagon, "Live It Up" by Mental As Anything, and "What You Need" by INXS.

Other major hits (with peak positions noted) included "You Spin Me Round (Like a Record)" (3) by Dead or Alive, "Part-Time Lover" (3) by Stevie Wonder, "Last Christmas" (3) by Wham!, "Money for Nothing" (4) by Dire Straits, "Neutron Dance" (4) by Pointer Sisters, and "Walking on Sunshine" (4) by Katrina and the Waves.

Hits by Australasian artists also included "I'd Die to Be with You Tonight" by Jimmy Barnes, "50 Years" by Uncanny X-Men, "Too Young for Promises" by Koo De Tah, "Man Overboard" by Do-Ré-Mi, "Don't Go" by Pseudo Echo, "We Will Together" by Eurogliders, and "Pleasure and Pain" by Divinyls.

1986 (Kent Music Report/ARIA Charts)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Concrete and Clay" by Martin Plaza, "How Will I Know" by Whitney Houston, "Kiss" by Prince and The Revolution, "Stimulation" by Wa Wa Nee, "The Edge of Heaven" by Wham!, "Dancing on the Ceiling" by Lionel Richie, "Take My Breath Away" by Berlin, "Stuck with You" by Huey Lewis and the News, "You Can Call Me Al" by Paul Simon, "Don't Leave Me This Way" by The Communards, and "The Lady in Red" by Chris de Burgh.

Other major hits included "Manic Monday" (3) by The Bangles, "A Matter of Trust" (3) by Billy Joel, "True Colors" (3) by Cyndi Lauper, "Hit That Perfect Beat" (3) by Bronski Beat, "I'm Your Man" (3) by Wham!, "Invisible Touch" (3) by Genesis, "I Wanna Be a Cowboy" (4) by Boys Don't Cry, and "West End Girls" (5) by Pet Shop Boys.

Hits by Australasian artists also included "The Dead Heart" by Midnight Oil, "Who Made Who" by AC/DC, "Great Wall" by Boom Crash Opera, "I Could Make You Love Me" by Wa Wa Nee, "Love an Adventure" by Pseudo Echo, and "Do You Wanna Be?" by I'm Talking.

1987 (Australian Music Report/ARIA Charts)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Good Times" by Jimmy Barnes and INXS, "The Final Countdown" by Europe, "I Want Your Sex" by George Michael, and "Suddenly" by Angry Anderson.

Other major hits (with peak positions noted) included "Old Time Rock and Roll" (3) by Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now" (3) by Starship, "Livin' on a Prayer" (3) by Bon Jovi, "Star Trekkin'" (3) by The Firm, "Bad" (4) by Michael Jackson, "What's My Scene?" (3) by Hoodoo Gurus, "Pressure Down" (4) by John Farnham, "Crazy" (4) by Icehouse and "Beds Are Burning" (6) by Midnight Oil.

1988 (Australian Music Report/ARIA Charts)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Heaven Is a Place on Earth" by Belinda Carlisle, "Stutter Rap (No Sleep Til Bedtime)" by Morris Minor and the Majors, "Better Be Home Soon" by Crowded House, "Doctorin' the Tardis" by The Timelords, The Only Way Is Up by Yazz, and "If I Could" by 1927.

1989 (Australian Music Report)
Other hits

Songs peaking at number two included "Especially for You" by Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan, "Bedroom Eyes" by Kate Ceberano, "Batdance" by Prince, "I'll Be Loving You (Forever)" by New Kids on the Block, and "All I Want Is You" by U2.

ARIA Charts
ARIA licensed the top 50 portion of the Kent Music Report (re-branded the Australian Music Report in 1987) chart between June 1983 and early June 1988. ARIA conducted its own chart survey, for the first time, on 6 June 1988, producing a top 50 chart as a test-run. The following week's survey, 13 June 1988, became the first ARIA-produced chart published, although it was dated week-ending 26 June 1988 on the printed top 50 chart available in record stores, in keeping with the Australian Music Report's method of dating their charts. The ARIA-produced chart ran concurrently with the Australian Music Report, until the latter ceased publication in 1999. The dates given for ARIA Charts below are Mondays, reflecting the date the chart survey was conducted.

1988 (ARIA Charts)
Other hits

Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes' hit "(I've Had) The Time of My Life" was the best-charting single of the year according to ARIA (whereas the Australian Music Report lists this as the 2nd best-charting single of the year.)

Songs peaking at number two songs included "Better Be Home Soon" by Crowded House, "Doctorin' the Tardis" by The Timelords, "All Fired Up" by Pat Benatar, "The Only Way Is Up" by Yazz and the Plastic Population, and "A Groovy Kind of Love" by Phil Collins.

Other major hits (with peak positions noted) included "Don't Be Cruel" (4) by Cheap Trick, "Love in the First Degree" (5) and "I Want You Back" (3) by Bananarama, "When Will I Be Famous?" (10) and "I Owe You Nothing" (6) by Bros, "I Want Your Love" (7) by Transvision Vamp and "Fat" (12) by "Weird Al Yankovic".

Hits by Australasian artists (with peak positions noted) also included "When a Man Loves a Woman" (3) by Jimmy Barnes, "Nothing Can Divide Us" (3) by Jason Donovan, "That's When I Think of You" (6) and "If I Could" (4) by 1927, "Love Is a Bridge" (11) by Little River Band, "So Excellent"/"I Go, I Go" (8) by Kylie Mole, and "I Still Love You (Je Ne Sais Pas Pourquoi)" (11) by Kylie Minogue.

1989 (ARIA Charts)
Other hits

The biggest chart hit, Madonna's "Like a Prayer", was ranked the 2nd best-charting single of the year by the Australian Music Report.

Songs peaking at number two included "Especially for You" by Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan, "Teardrops" by Womack & Womack, "Tucker's Daughter" by Ian Moss, "Bedroom Eyes" by Kate Ceberano, "Batdance" by Prince, "All I Want Is You" by U2, and "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Billy Joel.

Other major hits (with peak positions noted) included "Baby I Don't Care" (3) by Transvision Vamp, "Poison" (3) by Alice Cooper, "Stop!" (4) by Sam Brown, "Talk It Over" (4) by Grayson Hugh, "Dressed for Success" (3) by Roxette, "You Got It" (3) by Roy Orbison, "The Best" (4) by Tina Turner, and "I Don't Want a Lover" (4) by Texas.

Hits by Australasian artists also included "Ring My Bell" (5) by Collette, "She Has to Be Loved" (5) by Jenny Morris, "Rock and Roll Music" (5) by Mental As Anything, "One Summer" (8) by Daryl Braithwaite, "Say Goodbye" (6) by Indecent Obsession, "Chained to the Wheel" (9) by The Black Sorrows, and "Hand on Your Heart" (4), "Wouldn't Change a Thing" (6), "Never Too Late" (14) all by Kylie Minogue.