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Tom Monaghan

Thomas Stephen Monaghan (born March 25, 1937) is an American entrepreneur   who founded Domino's Pizza in 1960. He also owns the Domino's Farms Office Park, located in the Ann Arbor Charter Township, Michigan, which he first started building during 1984. He also owned the Detroit Tigers of Major League Baseball (MLB) from 1983 to 1992.

Monaghan is a devout Catholic and announced his retirement in 1998 after 38 years with Domino's Pizza, Inc. Monaghan sold 93 percent of the company to Bain Capital for around $1 billion, ceased being involved in day-to-day operations of the company, and subsequently dedicated his time and considerable fortune to Catholic causes. A supporter of the pro-life movement and other Catholic teachings "to combat the nation's 'moral crisis, Monaghan has spent hundreds of millions of dollars promoting them.

He and his wife, Marjorie Zybach, whom he met while delivering pizza, were married in 1962 and have four daughters: Margaret, Susan, Mary and Barbara. As of 2014, they have 10 grandchildren and one great-grandchild.

Early life
After his father died when Monaghan was four years old, Monaghan's mother had difficulties raising him alone, and at age six, in 1943, Monaghan and his younger brother Jim ended up in an orphanage until their mother collected them again in 1949. The orphanage, St. Joseph Home for Children in Jackson, Michigan, was run by the Felician Sisters of Livonia; one of the nuns there inspired his devotion to the Catholic faith and he later entered St. Joseph's Seminary, in Grand Rapids, with the desire to eventually become a priest. Subsequently, he was expelled from the seminary for a series of disciplinary infractions.

In 1956, Monaghan enlisted in the United States Marine Corps by mistake; he had meant to join the Army. He received an honorable discharge in 1959.

Domino's Pizza
Monaghan returned to Ann Arbor, Michigan, in 1959, and enrolled in the University of Michigan, intending to become an architect. While still a student, he and his brother James borrowed $900 to purchase a small pizza store called DomiNick's in Ypsilanti, Michigan. "I started out in architecture school, and got into the pizza business to pay my way through school," he has said. "The pizza business was losing so much money I never got back into architecture." This business would, after a lawsuit from Domino Sugar, grow into Domino's Pizza. Tom, after opening a further three stores, traded his brother James a Volkswagen Beetle for his half of the business. Monaghan dropped sub sandwiches from the menu and focused on delivery to college campuses, inventing a new insulated pizza box to improve delivery. The new box, unlike its chipboard predecessors, could be stacked without crushing the pizzas inside, permitting more pizzas per trip, and keeping them warm until they arrived. As Monaghan spread his model to other college towns through a tightly controlled franchising system, by the mid-1980s there were nearly three new Domino's franchises opening every day.

In 1989, the National Organization for Women (NOW) called for a boycott of Domino's because of his active opposition to abortion, but it is unclear what effect, if any, that had on the company's sales.

In 1998, Monaghan reportedly sold his 93% of stock ownership of Domino's Pizza to Bain Capital, an investment firm based in Boston, for an estimated $1 billion. Domino's Pizza is an American restaurant chain and the international franchise pizza delivery corporation is headquartered at the Domino's Farms Office Park (the campus itself owned by Monaghan ) in Ann Arbor Township, Michigan, United States, near Ann Arbor.

Gyrene Burger Company
In December 2011, Monaghan embarked on his second quick service restaurant brand by starting Gyrene Burger Company. The military-themed burger delivery concept was a throwback to Monaghan's days in the U.S. Marines. The term "Gyrene" was used in the 1940s and 1950s as a nickname for Marines. At Gyrene Burger, Monaghan provided franchise incentives to eligible Marines and veterans of the other military branches. The flagship store for the brand was located in Naples, FL, before relocating to Knoxville, TN. As of August 2018, no locations are in operation.

Leisure
The wealth Monaghan amassed from Domino's Pizza enabled a lavish lifestyle. However, after reading a passage by C. S. Lewis on pride (from Mere Christianity ), Monaghan divested himself of most of his more ostentatious possessions, including the Detroit Tigers in 1992. He gave up his lavish office suite at Domino's headquarters, replete with leather-tiled floors and an array of expensive Frank Lloyd Wright furnishings, turning it into a corporate reception room. He also ceased construction on a huge Wright-inspired mansion that was to be his home. (The house remains half-finished.)

Detroit Tigers
In 1983, Monaghan bought the Detroit Tigers, who won the World Series a year later. In 1984, he received the Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement. He became close to Major League Baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn, who remained a close friend, business associate and participant in his many philanthropic works. Monaghan ultimately sold the Tigers to his competitor Mike Ilitch of Little Caesar's Pizza in 1992. Combining his passion for pizza and baseball, his 1986 autobiography was titled Pizza Tiger.

Frank Lloyd Wright
Monaghan is an admirer of Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture, and the Domino's headquarters in Ann Arbor Township, Michigan, strongly resembles Wright's Prairie School architecture adapted to a larger scale. The headquarter's address of 24 Frank Lloyd Wright Drive also shows Monaghan's admiration. He has been one of the foremost collectors of Wright artifacts, including an oak dining room table and chairs for which he paid $1.6 million. He purchased a portion of Drummond Island in Michigan, where he created a private resort complex featuring buildings designed in the style of Wright, and later sold it to Clifton Haley and Denny Bailey.

Other
Another of Monaghan's expensive passions had been automobiles, and for a time his collection included one of the world's six Bugatti Royales, for which he paid $8.1 million in 1986, and sold it for $8 million in 1991.

In the early 1990s he also built a mansion in a Honduras mountain town, and funded and supervised the construction of a new cathedral in Managua, Nicaragua, after the old cathedral was destroyed in a 1972 earthquake.

Catholic philanthropy and activism
Monaghan is a Roman Catholic with a particular interest in anti-abortion causes. He established or helped establish a number of Catholic organizations and educational establishments. The orchestral Ave Maria Mass, by composer Stephen Edwards, was commissioned by Monaghan "to express in music the spiritual commitment behind the founding of Ave Maria College and Ave Maria School of Law". This mass, recorded and released on CD in 2002, was dedicated by the composer to the victims of September 11. Monaghan publicly promotes daily attendance at Mass, daily recitation of the rosary and frequent sacramental confession. He has also committed to spending what remains of his $1 billion fortune on philanthropic endeavors.

Although Monaghan has claimed that he was never a member of the Word of God community, in 1989, a coalition of seven groups (including, among others, the National Organization for Women, the Latin American Solidarity Committee, and the Ann Arbor Commission to Defend Abortion Rights) protested the Monaghan/Word of God connection.

Catholic organizations
In 1983 he established the Mater Christi Foundation, today known as the Ave Maria Foundation, to focus on Catholic education, media, community projects and other charities. Monaghan is founder and CEO of Legatus International, an organization of business Executives, Presidents, CEOs, and their spouses who are committed to studying, living and spreading the Catholic faith. Founded in 1987, Legatus empowers their 5,000+ members to boldly live their Catholic identity as "Ambassadors for Christ in the Marketplace". In 1988, Pope John Paul II addressed members of Legatus and encouraged them, “The world needs genuine witnesses to Christian ethics in the field of business and the Church asks you to fulfill this role publicly with courage and perseverance.”

In 1997, he recruited former Evangelical pastor Al Kresta to lead Ave Maria Communications, which became the first Catholic radio apostolate in America with the popularly known Ave Maria Radio. He also established the Ave Maria List anti-abortion political action committee, and the Thomas More Law Center, a public interest law firm dedicated to promoting social conservative issues such as opposition to abortion, same sex marriage, and secularism.

In addition, his foundation established the Spiritus Sanctus Academies. These elementary schools are administered by the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist.

The Ave Maria Foundation has subsequently fine-tuned its focus to higher education, and has established both a university and a law school. Along with that change in focus, many of the other non-profit entities that the Ave Maria Foundation established have become independent or are in the process of being weaned from Ave Maria Foundation grants.

Monaghan is reputed to be a member of Opus Dei and has been aligned with a number of other conservative Catholic organizations and causes.

Monaghan is a donor to Priests for Life, a Roman Catholic pro-life organization. He is a knight of magistral grace in the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

Ave Maria School of Law
The Ave Maria School of Law, previously located in Ann Arbor, Michigan, opened its doors in 2000, and received full accreditation from the American Bar Association in 2005. The school was a dream of several professors from the Catholic University of Detroit Mercy, who publicly left that institution when it allowed several pro-choice members of the Michigan Supreme Court to appear at the school's annual "Red Mass". Professors Stephen Safranek, Mollie Murphy, Richard Myers and Joseph Falvey, setting out to form a new orthodox Catholic law school, presented their idea to Monaghan (who had previously been a strong supporter of opening a new law school at Franciscan University) to provide significant funding through his Ave Maria Foundation. Together they enlisted Bernard Dobranski, Dean at The Catholic University of America's law school and former Dean of Detroit Mercy's Law School, to lead up the new school as dean. Monaghan served as president of the school's Board of Governors.

Faculty members have included conservative legal scholar and Supreme Court nominee Judge Robert Bork. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia assisted in developing the school's curriculum, and the school's first annual Ave Maria Lecture was presented by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in 1999. The school's stated goal is to educate competent moral attorneys who will influence all aspects of the legal profession and advance natural law theory. The Ave Maria Law School graduated its last Michigan class in the Spring of 2009 and immediately relocated to Naples, Florida permanently.

Ave Maria College
As a step to fulfilling his dream of creating a new Catholic university, Monaghan founded Ave Maria College in Ypsilanti, Michigan. In various attempts to accelerate accreditation, Monaghan acquired St. Mary's College of Orchard Lake and a campus in Nicaragua, renamed Ave Maria College of the Americas.

Due to lack of funding, the college, against faculty and student protests, closed in 2007. Alternative funding was not secured to prevent the school's closure. St. Mary's College was sold and is now under the auspices of nearby Madonna University.

Ave Maria University, Florida
In early 2002 Monaghan sought to establish the Ave Maria University in Ann Arbor, at Domino's Farms, the large corporate office park that he owned and leased to Domino's Pizza. The plans included a 250-foot crucifix, taller than the Statue of Liberty. Local officials refused to approve the zoning change, forcing him to look elsewhere for a site. Eventually, community leaders in Collier County, Florida, offered him a large undeveloped tract of land thirty miles east of Naples, Florida to develop the university.

In February 2006, ground was broken for the new Catholic university and town, Ave Maria, Florida. A joint venture, in which Monaghan is a 50% partner with developer Barron Collier, controls all non-university real estate in the town, and plans to build 11,000 homes and several business districts. Pulte Homes has been signed up to build most of the private homes. Monaghan said in 2005 that any town retailers would not be allowed to sell contraceptives or pornography, a statement that drew legal criticism from the American Civil Liberties Union.

Threatened with lawsuits, Monaghan and the developers went on a national public relations campaign in March 2007 to retract the notion that Catholic doctrine could ever be enforced as law. Defenders of Wildlife also challenged the development, stating it is destroying habitat of the endangered Florida panther.

Ave Maria Mutual Funds
Monaghan helped to establish the Ave Maria Mutual Funds by asking friend George P. Schwartz of Schwartz Investment Counsel, Inc. to launch the Ave Maria Catholic Values Fund in May 2001. There are now five Ave Maria Mutual Funds. They are described as targeted at investors seeking to place their money in companies whose operations are in keeping with the core teachings of the Catholic Church. The fund calls their shareholders "morally responsible investors". The funds are open to individual investors with a $1,000 minimum investment.

Monaghan is a member of the Catholic Advisory Board. The board sets the religious criteria that screen companies before the funds will invest in them. Involvement with contraception, non-marital partner employee benefits, pornography, and abortion are some issues that disqualify a company from the fund. Lou Holtz, Larry Kudlow, Michael Novak, Phyllis Schlafly and Paul Roney are the other members of the Funds' Catholic Advisory Board. Cardinal Adam Maida (of the Archdiocese of Detroit) is the board's ecclesiastic advisor.

Political support
Monaghan has been active in Republican Party politics, and was one of the key financial backers of Sam Brownback in his 2008 presidential campaign. Monaghan also endorsed Donald Trump during his 2020 presidential campaign.

title: Tom Monaghan


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A Bell Is a Cup

A Bell Is a Cup... Until It Is Struck is the fifth studio album by the British post-punk group Wire.

Critical response
In 1989, the Trouser Press Record Guide described the album as "a stylized set of dreamscapes and consciousness streams… It's arguably Wire's most ruminative album, and while immersion in it won't, as 'Silk Skin Paws' suggests, 'wring your senses' – that's more a job for Chairs Missing – it will twirl your lobes a time or two." However, in a later edition, Trouser Press held a more critical view, writing "Wire stayed the dance-pop course with diminishing results on A Bell Is a Cup."

At the time of the album's release, Wire faced accusations that they had abandoned their earlier rough-edged sound for a softer, more refined style. Graham Lewis dismissed such criticism:"This is a fallacy… When [Wire's early albums] were released, they were considered more polished than other records at the time. Every record that's been made, the same criticism of being less abrasive has been levelled at it. The abrasion is actually in the content – both lyrics and sound."

AllMusic gave the album a laudatory review, describing the record as "arguably Wire's best album and certainly its most accessible… a work of modern rock genius."

Cover art
The sculpture shown is the Selene horse from the Parthenon Marbles.

Track listing
All tracks published by Stainless Music.

The CD version appends the following tracks:

Personnel

 * Wire
 * Bruce Gilbert
 * Robert Gotobed
 * Graham Lewis (credited as "Lewis")
 * Colin Newman
 * Production
 * Gareth Jones – production
 * David Heilmann – engineer
 * Paul Davis – front of house engineer [13, 14]
 * Simon Hardiman – stage monitor engineer [13, 14]
 * Ifan Thomas – backline [13, 14]
 * Slim Smith – layout

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: A Bell Is a Cup


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Queen Zixi of Ix

Queen Zixi of Ix, or The Story of the Magic Cloak, is a children's book written by L. Frank Baum and illustrated by Frederick Richardson. It was originally serialized in the early 20th-century American children's magazine St. Nicholas from November 1904 to October 1905, and was published in book form later in 1905 by The Century Company. The events of the book alternate between Noland and Ix, two neighboring regions to the Land of Oz. Baum himself commented this was the best book he had yet written. In a letter to his eldest son, Frank Joslyn Baum, he said it was "nearer to the "old-fashioned" fairy tale than anything I have yet accomplished," and in many respects, it adheres more closely to the fairy tale structure than the Oz books.

The book was made into the 1914 film The Magic Cloak of Oz. Although no part of the book's story takes place in the Land of Oz, by the time the movie was made, it had become clear that the Oz franchise was Baum's most popular creation.

The copyright to Queen Zixi of Ix was acquired by Dover Publications in 1971, and the book was re-released with its original illustrations and a new introduction by Martin Gardner (ISBN 0-486-22691-3). Like all books published in the U.S. before 1923, it is now in the public domain.

Plot
On the night of a full moon, the fairies ruled by Queen Lulea are dancing in the Forest of Burzee. Lulea calls a halt to it, for "one may grow weary even of merrymaking". To divert themselves, another fairy recommends that they make something they can imbue with fairy magic. After several ideas are considered and rejected, the fairies decide to make a magic cloak that can grant its wearer one wish. The fairy who proposed it, Espa, and Queen Lulea agree that such a cloak will benefit mortals greatly. However, its wish-granting power cannot be used if the cloak is stolen from its previous wearer. After the fairies finish the golden cloak, Ereol arrives from the kingdom of Noland whose king has just died. On the advice of the Man in the Moon, Ereol is dispatched to Noland to give the magic cloak to the first unhappy person she meets.

Meanwhile, Noland's five high counselors assemble in the capital city of Nole and refuse to allow the valet Jikki to ring the bell that indicates the king has died until they decide how to choose his successor. Retrieving the book of the law of Noland (to be used only when the king is unavailable, for the king's will is law in Noland), the counselors learn that the forty-seventh person to pass through Nole's eastern gate at sunrise is to be declared king or queen. The next day, the five counselors assemble at the eastern gate and count off the procession entering Nole. Number forty-seven turns out to be Timothy (who everyone calls "Bud"), the orphaned son of a ferryman who, with his sister Meg (nicknamed "Fluff"), is entering town with their stern Aunt Rivette, a laundress for the city of Nole. Along the way from their house to Nole, Ereol meets Fluff and gives her the magic cloak due to her unhappiness at Bud's ill treatment by Rivette. The power of the cloak is first seen when Fluff wishes she could be happy again, and she becomes so. Bud—now King Bud—is welcomed by the high counselors and the people of Nole as their new king. His sister Fluff becomes Princess Fluff, and they take residence in the royal palace.

Aunt Rivette is relegated to an upper room of the palace. While Bud and Fluff glory in their new positions of authority and their possessions, Aunt Rivette wants to spread the news of her good fortune to her friends. She asks Fluff if she can wear her cloak, and she becomes so tired walking that she wishes she could fly. Two wings sprout from Aunt Rivette's back, causing her to panic at first, but she soon becomes very adept at using them. On its way back to the Princess, the cloak passes through the hands of the king's counselors and the king's valet, each of whom have their wishes immediately granted.

The minstrel Quavo crosses from Noland over a steep mountain range into the land of Ix, whose witch-queen ruler Zixi learns of the magic cloak and seeks to use it to make her reflection in a mirror as beautiful as she has made herself. Zixi is 683 years old, but her magic has allowed her to appear sixteen for a long time; however, the queen's reflection appears as old as she truly is. (This contradicts The Road to Oz in which the Wizard of Oz refers to Queen Zixi as having lived thousands of years—of course, he may simply have been mistaken; or, the Magic Cloak story may simply have taken place many years prior.) Believing that Princess Fluff would not simply give her the cloak to use since Ix and Noland aren't on speaking terms, Queen Zixi disguises herself and opens a school for witchery in Noland. Princess Fluff arrives as one of the pupils in her second-best cloak; Zixi is discovered to be a would-be thief when she demands the Princess wear the other, magic cloak. Next, Zixi leads the royal army of Ix to conquer Noland, but the counselors use their wish-granted abilities to repel the invaders back across the mountains.

Zixi disguises herself again and arrives at the royal palace of Noland to be hired as a serving maid to Princess Fluff. When she is alone in the Princess' chamber, Zixi summons imps to make a replica of the magic cloak and replace the Princess' magic cloak with that one. She is not caught in the theft, but when Zixi tries to use the cloak herself, its power fails because she stole it. Believing that its power is gone, Zixi leaves the cloak in the forest. The queen of Ix is sorrowful until she realizes through encounters with an alligator that wants to climb a tree, an owl that wants to swim like a fish, and a girl who wants to be a man, that she has been foolish to be unhappy with her lot.

The Roly-Rogues live on a high plateau above Noland and Ix. When one of the ball-shaped people accidentally bounces into Noland and views the city of Nole, they decide to conquer Noland in preference to constantly fighting among themselves. Even with their wish-granted abilities (the general wished himself ten feet tall, the lord high executioner wished for stretching arms, etc.), King Bud's counselors and Nole are soon overwhelmed by the invaders. King Bud, Princess Fluff, Aunt Rivette, and lord high steward Tallydab (who wished for his dog Ruffles to talk) escape and plan to retrieve the magic cloak which they believe is in the palace. Aunt Rivette carries Bud and Fluff to the palace and they battle past the Roly-Rogues, but when Bud puts on the cloak (since he hadn't made his wish yet; he was saving it) and wishes the Roly-Rogues away, nothing happens. Caught aback, Aunt Rivette takes her niece and nephew in flight with her to Ix on the opposite side of the mountain range that the Roly-Rogues came from.

Welcomed by Queen Zixi, who confesses that she stole the real magic cloak, Princess Fluff promises that she will let her use it after the Roly-Rogues are defeated. When they arrive where Zixi had left the cloak in the forest, it's gone and the party mounts a search to find it. Along the way, Zixi notes that the alligator, owl, and girl have become satisfied with who each of them are. The cloak was found by Edi, a shepherd who took it to Dame Dingle, a local seamstress. The seamstress reveals that she cut the cloak in half, used one half, and gave the other away. Zixi, Bud, Fluff, Rivette, Tallydab, and Ruffles track down the remaining pieces of the cloak, but one of them cannot be retrieved because the woman who had it sewed it into a necktie for her seaman son, and he won't be back home for a year.

Without the complete cloak, Bud can't wish the Roly-Rogues away. Queen Zixi uses the contents of a Silver Vial mixed in with their soup to defeat the Roly-Rogues. They're put to sleep for ten hours in which time Zixi and her army tie the tucked-in creatures up (when they sleep or roll, the Roly-Rogues retract their heads, arms, and feet) and send them all bobbing in the river on the Ix side of the mountain range. King Bud and his allies retake Nole, and the lands of Noland and Ix declare lasting friendship between them.

Later that year, the sailor whose necktie had the last piece of the magic cloak returns home and presents a necktie similar in appearance to King Bud, for he'd lost the other one at sea. Enraged, King Bud is about to have the sailor and his mother put in prison, when Queen Lulea of the fairies appears to take the cloak away because it has caused so much trouble. She undoes the foolish wishes that the cloak granted, allowing the wiser ones to remain, and graciously allows Bud to use the cloak for one last wish: "that I may become the best king that Noland has ever had!" Lulea will not grant Zixi's wish to see her own beauty, because the fairies do not approve of those who practice witchcraft. Queen Zixi returns to her kingdom, to rule it with kindness and justice—but, with her wish unfilfilled, must always beware of a mirror.

Setting
The story takes place in the two kingdoms of Noland and Ix, which Baum places across the Impassable Desert to the north of the Land of Oz.

Film adaptation
In 1914, the Oz Film Manufacturing Company produced a five-reel feature film version of Queen Zixi of Ix titled The Magic Cloak of Oz. The initial distributor of the film, Paramount Pictures, backed out because of poor results from an earlier Oz film, The Patchwork Girl of Oz. The Magic Cloak of Oz was released by the National Film Corporation in 1917.

Audio adaptation
Ray Bolger recorded an audio adaptation of Queen Zixi of Ix. This was the second in a series of four audiotapes, The Oz Audio Collection, recorded by Bolger and issued by Caedmon Audio from 1976-1983.

Other notes
King Bud, Princess Fluff, and Queen Zixi also appear in Baum's fifth Oz book, The Road to Oz.

Ix was later visited in The Silver Princess in Oz where it is home to King Chillywalla of Boxwood and his subjects, the Boxers, who box up everything, including their own bodies down to individual features. Zixi does not appear in the story. Kabumpo says there is no time to meet Queen "Zixie" [sic].

title: Queen Zixi of Ix


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User:Vellocet Malchickawick

Vellocet Malchickawick is a graphic designer, writer, musician, webmaster from New York.

Short Biography
Vellocet Malchickawick was born in Jacksonville in 1988. His fascination with computers and the internet came from his grandfather. His grandfather introduced him to PC games such as warcraft and doom. Later he became fluent in HTML and went on to learn C++, Cascading Style Sheets, Java, XHTML, and WPML ;).

Small Tidbits

 * Meaning Vellocet Malchickawick is nadsat for Drug(possibly cocaine) Boy.
 * Religion: Satanism
 * Vellocet Malchickawick is nihilist
 * 'Vellocet Malchickawick was in the band '14/7'
 * Even though V_M is clean, he still uses the name because it's cool and mysterious. Plus he's used to having it.

title: User:Vellocet Malchickawick


text:
Dee Bradley Baker

Dee Bradley Baker (born August 31, 1962) is an American actor. Much of his work has consisted of vocalizations of animals and monsters. Baker's roles include animated series such as SpongeBob SquarePants, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Codename: Kids Next Door, Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, Phineas and Ferb, Ben 10, The Legend of Korra, The 7D, Milo Murphy's Law and American Dad!. His voice work in live-action series includes Legends of the Hidden Temple and Shop 'til You Drop, as well as films such as Space Jam and The Boxtrolls.

Baker has also voiced characters in video games such as Halo, Gears of War, Viewtiful Joe, Spore, Destiny, Overwatch, and Cars Mater-National Championship. He is especially known for his work on various Star Wars television series, mainly as the voice of Captain Rex and other clone troopers in Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Star Wars: Rebels and Star Wars: The Bad Batch.

Early life
Baker was born in Bloomington, Indiana, on August 31, 1962 and grew up in Greeley, Colorado. He started performing at the age of nine and steadily worked in musicals, operas, plays, and stand-up comedy. As a child, he was a fan of Star Trek, Star Wars, Planet of the Apes, and the music of Frank Zappa; he also had an interest in insects, arthropods, and dinosaurs. He graduated from University High School in 1981 and received a Boettcher Scholarship.

Baker attended Colorado College in Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he studied philosophy, biology, fine arts, and German, the last of which he studied overseas for a year at the University of Göttingen. He was involved in local theater productions and singing groups. After graduating with a BA in philosophy in 1986, he was involved in many community theater projects, including a sketch comedy movie that aired on local public television.

Legends of the Hidden Temple
In 1989, Baker moved to Orlando, Florida, where he worked on an improv sketch comedy show titled The Anacomical Players at EPCOT Center's Wonders of Life pavilion and joined various projects for Disney and Universal Studios. His first major experience on national television was on the Nickelodeon game show Legends of the Hidden Temple from 1993 to 1995, where he was not only the announcer, but also the giant talking rock-god Olmec. He portrayed Olmec with a "big, booming, loud, god-like voice". During parts of the show, he would narrate a legend, and then ask the kid contestants related trivia questions. The show lasted three seasons and 120 episodes. When host Kirk Fogg moved to Los Angeles, he was encouraged to move there as well. In 2016, he and Fogg reprised their roles for a live action television movie adaptation of the show. He reprised his role of Olmec again when Legends was revived in 2021 on The CW.

Early voice acting career
Baker moved to Southern California about a year before the 1994 Northridge earthquake. He got involved in voice-over work; his first major character was Cow & Chicken's dad in the Cow & Chicken and I Am Weasel cartoons. His first feature film voice-over was on the basketball-themed Looney Tunes film Space Jam where he voiced Daffy Duck, Taz and Toro. He did voice work for various episodic and recurring cartoon characters in The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, Johnny Bravo, Dexter's Laboratory, SpongeBob SquarePants, and The Powerpuff Girls. He voiced starring characters Og in Mike, Lu & Og and Bagheera in the second season of Jungle Cubs. In 2001, he added voice roles for Sanjay, Binky and other characters for The Fairly OddParents and co-starred as Mandy's father on Billy and Mandy. He had a lead role as Numbuh 4 in Codename: Kids Next Door.

On the live-action front, he became the co-host and announcer for the game show Shop 'til You Drop which spanned several hundred episodes when it resumed broadcasting on the Family Channel and on the Pax television network, until a series retool in 2003; it was produced by Stone Stanley Entertainment, which had earlier co-produced Legends of the Hidden Temple. He also had an on-screen recurring role as Phil Berg in the Nickelodeon sitcom series The Journey of Allen Strange where he plays a crazed journalist who tries to expose Allen's identity as a space alien.

Animal and creature characterizations
Starting with gigs on The Wild Thornberrys, he voiced an assortment of animal characters, which would become one of his specialties. He voiced Pig George in the live action animal film My Brother the Pig. Baker has also been involved with television shows for younger children including: Dora the Explorer where he provided animal sounds; Mickey Mouse Clubhouse where he voices Boo Boo Chicken; Curious George where he voices Gnocchi, My Friends Tigger & Pooh where he voices Buster the dog and Jake and the Neverland Pirates (airing on Disney Junior) where he voices Tick-Tock the crocodile. In Avatar: The Last Airbender where he voiced the creatures Appa and Momo and would soon voice many other creatures in the series as well as its sequel, The Legend of Korra, where he voices Naga, Pabu and Oogi. He voiced in the American Dragon: Jake Long and Ben 10 series, the latter of which he voiced many alien creatures such as Stinkfly and Wildmutt, as well as some of the transformations. He also voiced in the Ben 10 sequels such as Ben 10: Alien Force, Ben 10: Ultimate Alien and Ben 10: Omniverse, as well as its live-action adaptations and the show's reboot. Derrick J. Wyatt, who was the art director for Omniverse, noted that they had to allow other voice actors to do some of the aliens in the later series because Baker was doing almost all of them and some of the characters were putting a strain on his throat. Outside of television, he provided the voice of Captain Jack Sparrow's talking parrot in the refurbished Pirates of the Caribbean rides at Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom.

In 2007, Baker got the role of Perry the Platypus in the Disney series Phineas and Ferb. At the San Diego Comic-Con 2013 panel, Baker mentioned that when he auditioned, he was asked to provide three different creature sounds, regardless of whether it actually sounded like a platypus, of which one was selected as Perry's characteristic sound. Perry has become a breakout character for the series, with Baker appearing at multiple Comic-Con panels for the show. In 2014, Perry was nominated for a Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Award for Best Animal Sidekick. Coincidentally, another one of Baker's voiced characters, Waddles the pet pig in Gravity Falls, was nominated for the same category.

Further animation voice-over work

In 2005, Baker landed a role as Klaus Heisler, an Olympic ski jumper from Germany who was body-swapped into a goldfish, in the primetime cartoon sitcom American Dad! The series has run for over 15 seasons on Fox and TBS. In an interview with Pop Break, Baker said that he liked playing Klaus because he loves the German language, the part was well written, and it is not stressful on his voice. He compared the rehearsals to being on The Carol Burnett Show. He participated in American Dad panels at San Diego Comic-Con 2010, 2012, and 2014; and the New York Comic Con in 2014. In 2017, he received a nomination for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Character Voice-Over Performance for Klaus in the episode "Fight or Flight". He also voices other characters on the show, most notably Rogu, a homunculi tumor that came off of Roger.

His voicing of council member Tarrlok in Korra garnered a nomination for the Behind the Voice Actors (BTVA) Voice Acting Award in 2012. In addition to television shows, Baker voiced characters in many animated and live action animation films, including some of the classic ghost monsters in Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed, and Maurice in Happy Feet. He also had roles in the Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated TV series and its direct-to-video releases.

Baker was involved in the Star Wars: The Clone Wars film released in 2008 and its television series afterwards which ran for seven seasons. He provided the voices for not only the characters Captain Rex and Commander Cody, but also all the supporting clone troopers,  the last of which he received an Annie Award nomination for Voice Acting in a Television Production in 2012. He has also reprised the role of Captain Rex in Star Wars Rebels, beginning with its second season. He also provided the voice of Boba Fett for Star Tours – The Adventures Continue. In the 2011 Family Guy episode "It's a Trap!", a parody of the Star Wars film Return of the Jedi, he voiced Klaus as Admiral Ackbar. In 2021, he reprised the role of the clones in the Clone Wars spin-off The Bad Batch, including the titular group of experimental clones. In 2023, he was announced as a voice actor in the Star Wars Outlaws video game, playing Nix, Kay Vess's loyal companion.

Video games, more voice acting, and other projects
In the video game world, Baker reprised his roles in Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon's multitude of show-related game releases. He provided the voice for Otto Von Fassenbottom, a German race car in the 2007 video game, Cars Mater-National Championship. He also voiced Gravemind in Halo 2 and Halo 3, and the title character Joe in the Viewtiful Joe series released from 2003 to 2005. He provided the creature sounds for the Spore video game which allows players to create and evolve their own creatures. At San Diego Comic-Con 2008's opening night, he was a featured performer at the Video Games Live concert, where he voiced characters from Gears of War and other series. He provided voices for two Blizzard Entertainment characters – Murky, a baby murloc in Heroes of the Storm, and Hammond, a genetically engineered hamster in Overwatch. He voiced multiple characters from the De Blob series. He is also the voice of the Death in Dante's Inferno, released in 2010, and Atlas and P-body in Portal 2, released in 2011. He also voiced Reuben the pig in Minecraft story mode in 2014.

In 2014, Baker continued participating in American Dad, Gravity Falls, and a fourth season of The Legend of Korra. He voiced Dopey in the Disney XD series The 7D; and Fish, Wheels and Bucket in The Boxtrolls film, in which he was nominated for an Annie Award for voicing Fish. In the Lego Batman 3: Beyond Gotham video game, he voiced Brainiac. He voiced George Clooney and his dog in "The Animated Episode" of the TV Land series Hot in Cleveland. In 2020, he voiced the hero Leef in Rocket Arena.

Baker has appeared on various panels at Comic-Con and other conventions where he talks about voice acting in general. He also created a website called IWantToBeAVoiceActor.com, where he answers frequently-asked questions about voice acting and gives advice. The site has been cited by fellow voice actors Steven Blum and Rob Paulsen as a valuable resource for getting into voice acting.

Personal life
Baker met his wife when they were doing children's theatre at the Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center. They married in 1990, and have two daughters. They live in Los Angeles.

Outside of voice acting, Baker enjoys photography, mostly taking pictures of small flowers and insects. He is fluent in German.

title: Dee Bradley Baker


text:
User talk:Peb1991

Talk all you want here.

Peb1991 20:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Old Stuff
All stuff below here has been resolved. Sorry, I forgot those images were in my userspace.

Image:Frommeassassinationattempt.jpg
Hello, Peb1991. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:Frommeassassinationattempt.jpg) was found at the following location: User:Peb1991/Vandalism/Gerald Ford. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or    media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 04:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:LCMS Logo Cross.JPG
Hello, Peb1991. An automated process has found and will an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that is in your userspace. The image (Image:LCMS Logo Cross.JPG) was found at the following location: User:Peb1991. This image or media will be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. This does not necessarily mean that the image is being deleted, or that the image is being removed from other pages. It is only being removed from the page mentioned above. All mainspace instances of this image will not be affected Please find a free image or    media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 17:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Repub8a.jpg
Hello Peb1991, an automated process has found an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, such as fair use. The image (Image:Repub8a.jpg) was found at the following location: User:Peb1991/Vandalism/Gerald Ford. This image or media will be removed per statement number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. The image that was replaced will not be automatically deleted, but it could be deleted at a later date. Articles using the same image should not be affected by my edits. I ask you to please not readd the image to your userpage and could consider finding a replacement image licensed under either the Creative Commons or GFDL license or released to the public domain. Thanks for your attention and cooperation. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 07:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Article assessment - FETCH! with Ruff Ruffman
As requested I've assessed FETCH! with Ruff Ruffman. I've included a summary of my thinking here.--Opark 77 09:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:E121603A.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:E121603A.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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Image copyright problem with File:Kmhs.jpg
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WikiProject C-SPAN?
Greetings fellow Wikipedia editor -

I am leaving you this note because I have reason to believe that you are interested in C-SPAN. (I may have made this assumption based on your C-SPAN user box, or perhaps for some other reason.) If this is not an interest of yours, please feel free to read no further and delete this message.

If you are in fact someone who is interested in C-SPAN, then let me put forward an idea that I have been kicking around for a while. What if we started a C-SPAN WikiProject?

The parameters of this (potential) project are up for discussion, but it could include some or all of the following (as well as things that may occur to you that have not occurred to me):

 * Creation, maintenance, and improvement of articles and lists directly related to C-SPAN and its programming.
 * Use of C-SPAN programming in citations for various topics
 * Inclusion of unique and targeted C-SPAN video links for various articles. (Doing this with respect for established guidelines at External links.) (Example: If you are interested in the submarine USS Wyoming (SSBN-742), then having easy access to the eight hours of programming taped while a C-SPAN crew were guests on that submarine could also be of interest to you.)
 * Inclusion of (and possible further creation of) templated links such as, that will easily take article readers to a link of all C-SPAN Video Library links for the person about whom the article is about.
 * What else?

I don't know exactly how far we may want to go, nor in what directions, but I do believe (as I have long noted on my user page) that C-SPAN and Wikipedia are both...

"...fantastic vehicles for the free exchange of ideas and information in a non-sound-bite manner, and they both invite the participation of any parties (expert or amateur) who are interested in taking the time to absorb and/or contribute to the ideas and information offered. C-SPAN and Wikipedia go together like peanut butter and jelly, and I want to help give other Wiki users easy access to the great work that C-SPAN has done on a variety of topics."

Now, I should mention that I have never started a WikiProject before, and I do not know the best way to go about it. (Perhaps one of you do?) Let me offer one of my sandbox pages, User:KConWiki/sandbox/Wikiproject C-SPAN?, as a gathering area for comments until such time as we gather enough steam to start our own WikiProject page.

Thanks for reading this far, and I hope that you will give some consideration as to whether this is something we ought to attempt. Please feel free to pass this message on to others you know whom might be interested, and please let me know your thoughts and comments.

KConWiki (talk) 03:34, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

title: User talk:Peb1991


text:
Talk:Juno Awards

Untitled
http://www.juno-awards.ca/ARC_about.php lists 1970 as the starting date for the gold leaf awards. Does anyone have know which of these dates is correct?

 * Would suggest for Wikipedia purposes that 1970 be deemed the start of the Junos. The Juno Awards site (http://www.junoawards.ca) lists a few of the 1970 winners in its archives, suggesting that CARAS considers the 1970 Gold Leafs as canonical. RPM Magazine's honours pre-1970 were reader polls, not associated with any ceremonies or trophies. But there will likely be some naming issues surfacing regarding the Juno Awards of 1970 page. Dl2000 00:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Category for nominees
Does anyone else feel that there should be a category for nominees? - tSR - Nth Man (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Are we allowed to have such an animal?  Argolin (talk) 11:06, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Origin of Juno name
On D-Day in WWII Canada atacked Juno beach. I've heard that this was actualy what the awards are named after.--24.57.19.247 23:29, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

 * There seems to be no indication from available source docs that the Juno Beach connection was an inspiration for the awards name. Dl2000 00:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Which just makes the origin of the name even more intriguing. Nailedtooth (talk) 23:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Solved the Awards were named after Pierre Juno. Just heard on the radio he died 21 Febuary 2012.  He was the commissioner of the CRTC and was the author of the Cancon regulations.  He was completly unapologetic about the Canadian regs.  Argolin (talk) 03:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

2001 Junos in hamilton
As I recall, CBC was on strike in 2001 and CTV stepped in at the least minute to air the show. Can anyone confirm this? 24.79.92.100 19:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Haven't confirmed the 2001 situation, but CBC did encounter a strike situation during the Juno Awards of 1999, but it was more a case of the workers allowing the broadcast to proceed rather than another network taking over. Dl2000 02:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Juno years template
I am not sure how to edit that, but the link for 08 can now be added to it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_Awards_of_2008 24.79.92.100 19:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Done. Dl2000 21:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Juno Award logo.jpg
Image:Juno Award logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Article title singular
There was a recent unexplained move of the article title to Juno Awards. Until there is some article standard or consensus which suggests otherwise, the article name should remain as is and not be moved around, similar to how Academy Award, Genie Award, Grammy Award etc. are kept as singular titles. Dl2000 (talk) 01:51, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I quite agree with the recent move back (again) to Juno Award. I was ambivalent until I read the above from User:Dl2000 (great catch!).  This article should not be moved without the involvement of the Canadian music project.  This article may be moved to Juno Awards, but do not do so until policy is followed per Requested moves.  Argolin (talk) 10:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Juno Award. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120825154823/http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/entertainment/story.html?id=ab60d316-529a-472a-83be-ff2ba9013624 to http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/entertainment/story.html?id=ab60d316-529a-472a-83be-ff2ba9013624
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101213123137/http://junoawards.ca/40th-anniversary-events/juno-awards-statuette/ to http://junoawards.ca/40th-anniversary-events/juno-awards-statuette/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120826062804/http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story.html?id=9c120192-8a34-4084-82ed-5af65b2543ca to http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story.html?id=9c120192-8a34-4084-82ed-5af65b2543ca
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120309180654/http://www.chch.com/index.php/home/item/6092-juno-award-artisan-shirley-elford-dies to http://www.chch.com/index.php/home/item/6092-juno-award-artisan-shirley-elford-dies
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101213110328/http://junoawards.ca/2007/02/21/the-juno-awards-head-west-to-calgary-alberta-in-2008/ to http://junoawards.ca/2007/02/21/the-juno-awards-head-west-to-calgary-alberta-in-2008/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101213104206/http://junoawards.ca/2008/02/12/vancouver-rolls-out-the-red-carpet-for-the-2009-juno-awards/ to http://junoawards.ca/2008/02/12/vancouver-rolls-out-the-red-carpet-for-the-2009-juno-awards/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100926215314/http://junoawards.ca/2010/01/25/toronto-ontario-to-host-the-40th-anniversary-celebrations-of-the-juno-awards-in-2011/ to http://junoawards.ca/2010/01/25/toronto-ontario-to-host-the-40th-anniversary-celebrations-of-the-juno-awards-in-2011/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130501220121/http://junoawards.ca/2012/10/winnipeg-to-host-the-2014-juno-awards/ to http://junoawards.ca/2012/10/winnipeg-to-host-the-2014-juno-awards/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:15, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 14 March 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: MOVED. Consensus reached. Hadal (talk) 16:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Juno Award → Juno Awards – Consistently referred to as plural in article. Should match the standard set by Academy Awards, Grammy Awards, Tony Awards, etc. QuietHere (talk) 13:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Support per consistency and naturalness. Colin M (talk) 16:33, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * support consistency and not sounding weird—blindlynx 03:20, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:15, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Salvabl (talk) 19:39, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

title: Talk:Juno Awards


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Anuzutica

The entire article appears to be a hoax. If Anuzutica is culturally significant to over 60 million people, then one would expect that some of them might have at least heard of the concept. -- Gyrofrog 20:56, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text:
Israel Russell

Israel Cook Russell, LL.D. (December 10, 1852 – May 1, 1906) was an American geologist and geographer who explored Alaska in the late 19th century.

Early life and education
Russell was born at Garrattsville, New York, on December 10, 1852. He received B.S. and C.E. degrees in 1872 from the University of the City of New York (now New York University), and later studied at the School of Mines, Columbia College.

Career
In 1874 he accompanied one of the parties sent out by the United States government to observe the transit of Venus, and was stationed at Queenstown, New Zealand. On his return in 1875 he was appointed assistant in geology at the School of mines, and in 1878 he became assistant geologist on the United States geological and geographical survey west of the 100th meridian.

In 1880, he became a member of the United States Geological Survey (USGS). Between 1881 and 1885 he worked at the Mono Lake in east-central California. Originally employed for work with regard to surveying and building the Bodie Railway connecting the Lake with Bodie, he stayed for four years and wrote the seminal work Quaternary History of Mono Valley, California (1884). He represented the USGS in 1889 in an expedition sent to Alaska by the United States Coast and Geodetic Survey to establish a portion of Alaska's eastern boundary. During the next two years, he explored, under the joint auspices of the USGS and the National Geographic Society, the slopes of Mount Saint Elias and the Yakutat Bay area. In 1890 he made the first reported sighting of Mount Logan, the highest mountain in Canada, and gave the mountain its name.

In 1892 he became professor of geology at the University of Michigan. At the time of his death, he was President of the Geological Society of America.

In May 1902, Russell was one of a party of scientists who travelled on the USS Dixie to document the eruptions of La Soufriere, St Vincent and Mont Pelee, Martinique. Russell was sent by the National Geographic Society along with Robert T. Hill and Carsten Borchgrevink.

Death
Russell died suddenly on May 1, 1906, after suffering pneumonia.

Honours
In 1902, Marcus Baker of the USGS named Russell Fiord in his honor. Mount Russell in Alaska, Mount Rainier's Russell Glacier in Washington, Mount Russell (California), and the prehistoric Lake Russell in California's Mono Basin are also named for him.

Writing
Besides many contributions on geological subjects to various scientific periodicals, he published scientific memoirs, which were issued as annual reports of the Geological Survey, or as separate monographs.

Works

 * Sketch of the Geological History of Lake Lahontan (1883)
 * A Geological Reconnaissance in Southern Oregon (1884)
 * Existing Glaciers of the United States (1885)
 * Geological History of Lake Lahontan (1885)
 * Geological History of Mono Valley (1888)
 * Sub-Aerial Decay of Rocks (1888)
 * Lakes of North America (1895)
 * Glaciers of North America (1897)
 * Volcanoes of North America (1897)
 * Rivers of North America (1898)
 * North America (1904)
 * North America (1904)

title: Israel Russell


text:
File:Bartók - Sonata for two pianos and percussion - Assai lento - Allegro molto (clip).ogg

0:27 clip from the first movement of Béla Bartók's Sonata for two pianos and percussion demonstrating timpani glissandos.

Recording: Bartók - Dorati: The Miraculous Mandarin, Divertimento, Sonata for two pianos and percussion. Mercury.

Fair use for Timpani
This audio clip, Bartók - Sonata for two pianos and percussion - Assai lento - Allegro molto (clip).ogg, is being linked here; though the recording is subject to copyright I (– flamurai (t)) feel it is covered by the U.S. fair use laws because:
 * 1) it is an excerpt of a longer work;
 * 2) it is used to illustrate the sound of the instruments;
 * 3) it is used to illustrate a concept specifically mentioned in the text (the timpani glissando);
 * 4) a free recording of high enough fidelity and performance quality to appropriately illustrate the sound of the instruments in this work could not be found.

Fair use rationale for Sonata for two pianos and percussion and Béla Bartók
I believe this file is fair use in the article Sonata for two pianos and percussion because it demonstrates the sound of the work, it cannot be sold commercially to violate the original copyrights, and it cannot be replaced with a free version. The same is true for its use in Béla Bartók. Graham 87 02:07, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

authors: ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ


text:
TauTona Mine

The TauTona Mine, formerly Western Deep Levels No.3 Shaft, is a gold mine located in the West Wits gold field west of Johannesburg. The mine is near the town of Carletonville in South Africa. At approximately 3.9 km deep, it is home to the world's second deepest mining operation, rivalled only by the Mponeng Gold Mine, formerly Western Deep Levels No.1 Shaft. TauTona was temporarily closed in 2018.

The mine was one of the three Western Deep Levels mines. TauTona neighbours its sister Mponeng and Savuka mines, with which there are interconnections underground on various levels. To the north-east lie the Driefontein shafts, which were developed around the same time by Goldfields.

Ore from TauTona and Savuka were formerly processed at the Savuka Gold Plant. Mponeng, the newest of the three, was built with its own gold plant. All three were owned by AngloGold Ashanti until they were purchased by Harmony Gold in 2020. Savuka was placed on care and maintenance in 2017, but continued as a pumping shaft to dewater the region to enable mining at active shafts, until it was finally closed in 2024.

TauTona closed in 2018, but was reopened in 2020 as part of the Mponeng operations. It is now known as Mponeng Mine: Carbon Leader Operations. TauTona Shaft remains in commission, but Carbon Leader reef mined at TauTona is trammed underground to Mponeng, where it is hoisted to surface and processed at the Mponeng Plant. The Savuka Plant continues in operation only as a tailings retreatment facility. Its 'front end' (milling) has been mothballed.

TauTona mine was built by the Anglo American Corporation. Shaft sinking operations started in 1956 and the 2km-deep main surface shaft was commissioned in 1961, serving all levels down to 66L. The name TauTona means "great lion" in the Setswana language. The mine commenced ore production in 1962. It was one of the most efficient mines in South Africa, with attractively high gold grades, and remained in continuous operation even during periods when the price of gold was low. Initially, mining at TauTona concentrated on the Venterdorp Contact Reef (VCR), which has almost all been mined out. However, the Carbon Leader Reef (CLR), which is located several hundred metres in the footwall of the VCR, remains relatively untouched, and forms the basis of TauTona's new lease on life. CLR mining is underway between 112 Level and 120 Level, all off the TV Shaft.

Two more sub-shafts were added to bring the mine to its current depth. The secondary sub-shaft serves from 66L down to 100L, and the Tertiary Vertical Shaft (TV Shaft) extends down to 120L, 3,595m below collar.

The mine had some 800 km of tunnels, and employed around 5,600 miners at its peak. Current staffing levels are far lower. The mine was a dangerous place to work, with an average of five miners dying in accidents each year. The mine is so deep that virgin rock temperatures in the mine can rise to life-threatening levels. Refrigeration equipment is used to cool the mine from 55 °C down to a more tolerable 28 °C. The rock face temperature reaches 60 °C.

By 2008, the mine reached 3.9 km underground. This made it the deepest mine in the world (at that time), surpassing the 3.5 km deep East Rand Mine by a considerable margin. This new shaft extended the depth from its previous 3.5 km, with the intent of extending the mine's life to 2015.

The shaft conveyances that transported the workers from the surface to the bottom travelled at 16 metres per second (36 mph / 58 km/h) so together with travelling in man carriages operating in the haulages, the journey to the working stopes and development ends could take over an hour from the surface. The mine has been featured on the MegaStructures television program produced by the National Geographic Channel.

Current planning reveals a realistic Life Of Mine (LOM) on the CLR mining horizon to 2029, excluding any extension. The foreseeable LOM potential is to 2035, including shaft pillar mining.

In the 2008 financial year, there were 7 fatal accidents at AngloGold Ashanti's West Wits operations in which 14 miners died, four of those at the TauTona mine.

Production
Production figures of the TauTona Mine were the following:

title: TauTona Mine


text:
Roadgeek

A roadgeek (from road + geek) is a person involved in "roadgeeking" or "road enthusiasm", an enthusiasm for roads, fond of road trips as a hobby. One may also be called a road enthusiast, road buff, roadfan or Roads Scholar, the latter a play on "Rhodes Scholar".

Interest
Roadgeeks view their interest as an appreciation of engineering and planning feats: We're interested in all the effort that goes into making roads. The railways in this country get an awful lot of press as great engineering achievements. Roads aren't seen in that way, but it wasn't always so. In the 1950s and 1960s they were part of a brave new era. Back then it was something to get excited about. They actually put people on buses and drove up and down them to have a look...

Roadgeeks are not necessarily interested in motor vehicles; there may also be an interest in cartography and map design. Enthusiasts may focus on a single activity related to roads, such as driving the full length of a highway (known as 'clinching') or researching the history, planning and quirks of a particular road or national highway system. Sometimes, road geeks are called "highway historians" for the knowledge and interests.

Even the numbering system can be a subject of deep interest, as Joe Moran describes in his book "On Roads: A Hidden History": On the online discussion forum of SABRE, the Society for All British Road Enthusiasts (sic), the 1400-odd Sabristi often debate about where the M25 starts and whether it is correctly numbered, or why the motorway from Carlisle to Glasgow is called both the M74 and the A74(M). In road-numbering lore, the absence of pattern—the discovery that there are so many exceptions to rules that the rules might as well not exist—only seems to revivify the search for inner mysteries. Road buffs talk in reverential tones about "David Craig Numbers" - the elegant theory, named after the man who proposed it, that three digit numbers derive from the roads they connect.

Online
In 2002, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported that road enthusiasm was an Internet phenomenon. There is a Usenet newsgroup, misc.transport.road, where participants discuss all facets of roads and road trips from "construction projects to quirks and inconsistencies in signage". Those who await each annual Rand McNally road atlas release found a community of others online who were also interested in roads as a hobby. These communities of people could share photos, swap their thoughts on the highways in their areas and "debate the finer points of interchange design".

Web based forums are popular; one of the largest is AARoads Forum.

SABRE
Started in 1999, the Society for All British and Irish Road Enthusiasts (SABRE), originally known as "Study and Appreciation of the British Roads Experience", is one of the larger and most prominent communities of road enthusiasts online. The organization hosts a large collection of articles and histories of particular roads and terminology, online photo galleries, discussion forums, and an application to overlay and compare historical roadmaps. Although SABRE is primarily an online group, members organize group tours to visit sites of interest.

Taiwan websites
In 2006, a board called "Road" in the PTT Bulletin Board System, which is a Taiwanese forum, was established. Because some Taiwanese road enthusiasts didn't know how to use a terminal or BBS reader to access it, the web forum Taiwan Highway Club (literally, "Highway State") was started in 2008. It contains subforums where users discuss road policies and post highway news and images.

Relationship with governments
In Taiwan, the Ministry of Transportation and Communications' Directorate General of Highways (公路總局) has held occasional Road Fan Conferences (公路迷座談會) since 2011 where roadfans and highway transportation-related organizations made suggestions to the government.

title: Roadgeek


text:
Otok, Vukovar-Syrmia County

Otok (Atak) is a town in eastern Croatia, located 20 km south of Vinkovci, in eastern Slavonia. The settlement gained the status of town by the decision of the Parliament of Croatia on July 13, 2006. At the time, nearby Privlaka was a part of the municipality, but was subsequently declared a municipality in its own right. The population of the town of Otok is 6,343 (census 2011), with 4,694 residents in Otok itself and 1,649 in the nearby village of Komletinci. In the census of 2011, 99.31% of the population declared themselves Croats.

1910 census
According to the 1910 census, settlement of Otok had 3,568 inhabitants which were linguistically and religiously declared as this:

title: Otok, Vukovar-Syrmia County


text:
Russell Fiord

Russell Fiord, also spelled Russell Fjord, is a fjord in the U.S. state of Alaska. It extends north to Disenchantment Bay, the terminus of Hubbard Glacier, at the head of Yakutat Bay. The fjord was named in 1901 by Marcus Baker of the U.S. Geological Survey for explorer Israel Russell, who discovered the estuary in 1891 while exploring the Yakutat region.

The opening into Disenchantment Bay has been periodically blocked by Hubbard Glacier, turning Russell Fiord into a lake collecting freshwater run-off from the glacier. The entrance closed from May to October 1986, and again briefly in 2002.

Russell Fiord Wilderness
The Russell Fiord Wilderness is a wilderness area within the Tongass National Forest, protecting 348701 acre surrounding the fjord. The wilderness was established by the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act in 1980 and is managed by the U.S. Forest Service. The Wrangell-Saint Elias Wilderness borders it to the northwest.

title: Russell Fiord


text: Talk:Russell Fjord

title: Talk:Russell Fjord


text: Talk:Israel Russell

title: Talk:Israel Russell


text:
The Better Life

The Better Life is the debut studio album by American rock band 3 Doors Down, released on February 8, 2000. It has become 7× Platinum since release. This is the only album on which lead singer Brad Arnold played drums. "Kryptonite", "Loser", and "Be Like That" all reached the Billboard Hot 100 chart, peaking at No. 3, No. 55, and No. 24, respectively. The Better Life sold over six million copies worldwide.

It is the band's best-selling album to date, with sales of over 5,653,000 copies in the United States, as of July 2014.

Background
In 1997, 3 Doors Down released a self-titled demo CD that garnered attention locally; it was mixed and recorded by Clyde Holly at Holly House Recording, located in Biloxi, Mississippi. Only 2,000 copies of the demo are known to exist; its track listing is mostly shared with The Better Life as six songs from the demo were later re-recorded and polished for release on the album. Two tracks from the demo, "Sarah Yellin' 86" and "Man In My Mind," were released on the bands subsequent album, Away from the Sun on its 2002 original release and 2023 deluxe re-release respectively. Studio recordings of two tracks from the demo, "Dead Love" and "Wasted Me" were produced, but remain unreleased; versions of the songs parenthetically labeled "early version[s]" were also included on their second albums' 2023 deluxe edition—which were the same versions included on the demo. Five songs, "Duck and Run," "Not Enough," "Be Like That," "Better Life," and "So I Need You," were recorded after the band had been picked up by Universal Records.

In 2007, a two-disc version of the album, The Better Life: Deluxe Edition, was released and included an audio recording of a 2003 concert. In 2020, a remaster of the album, The Better Life: 20th Anniversary Edition, was released on vinyl, as well as on CD and digitally in 2021; all three versions include the band's eponymous 1997 demo, with the ten songs being listed as the "Escatawpa Sessions." The CD and digital releases of the 20th Anniversary Edition also include acoustic versions of "Kryptonite" and "Be Like That," along with "The Better Life (XX Mix)" and the studio recording of "Wasted Me" as bonus tracks.

Deluxe Edition bonus CD
On September 18, 2007, the Deluxe Edition with a bonus second disc was released, which features a live performance recorded in 2003 at Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavilion in Houston, Texas. This disc was also released separately on streaming services as The Better Life: Rarities Edition.

Personnel
Credits adapted from album's liner notes.

3 Doors Down
 * Brad Arnold – lead vocals, drums
 * Matt Roberts – rhythm and lead guitars
 * Chris Henderson – rhythm and lead guitars
 * Todd Harrell – bass guitar

Additional musicians
 * Kevin Paige – keyboards (tracks 2, 3, 5)

Production
 * Paul Ebersold – producer, engineer
 * Matt Martone – engineer
 * Toby Wright – mixing
 * Mike Butler – mixing assistant
 * Stephen Marcussen – mastering
 * Andrew Garver – digital editing
 * Andrew MacNaughtan – photography

Singles

 * "Kryptonite" – 2000
 * Reached No. 3 on the US Hot 100
 * Reached No. 1 on the US Modern Rock (11 weeks) and US Mainstream Rock (nine weeks)
 * "Loser" – July 29, 2000
 * Reached No. 55 on the US Hot 100
 * Reached No. 2 on the US Modern Rock
 * Reached No. 1 on the US Mainstream Rock (21 weeks)
 * "Duck and Run" – 2000
 * Reached No. 11 on the US Modern Rock
 * Reached No. 1 on the US Mainstream Rock (three weeks)
 * "Be Like That" – May 20, 2001
 * Reached No. 24 on the US Hot 100
 * Reached No. 22 on the US Modern Rock
 * Reached No. 10 on the US Mainstream Rock

title: The Better Life


text:
User talk:Jim Spinner

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Hyacinth 21:05, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
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title: User talk:Jim Spinner


text:
User:SaIsa Shark

Man goes in the cage. Cage goes in the salsa. Shark's in the salsa - our shark!

We're gonna need a bigger boat.

title: User:SaIsa Shark


text:
Talk:Direct and indirect realism

Merge suggestion
This page should be merged with representationalism. Any objections? Banno 21:07, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should. -Unknown
 * Put a merge request so we can put it to vote. I'm undecided, just got into this. Are they completely identical concepts?Tyciol 05:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Not the same?

 * This is not the same thing as representative realism, which is the idea that our perceptions are direct causes of the intrinsic qualities of objects, and based on these perceptions we can infer things about these objects.

I am confused by this statement, it doesn't explain things directly enough... 'what' is not the same as representational realism? It seems like the prior paragraph might have been explaining the second intangible qualities dependant upon perception, but I'm not sure. Tyciol 05:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what is meant here either. Unless somebody can explain it I think it should be removed Averisk
 * Representationalism does not have realism as a pre-requisite. Hence, representative realism is not co-extensional with representationalism. Also note that the article appears to be needlessly POV, when it states "nonetheless, it has been... etc", making it sound as if representationalism was something like an obscure dead-end theory, especially since its opponents are clearly representing a small minority in contemporary philosophy.

Merge boldness
With no objections in 6 months, im goin for the merge. There was also a less developped page called Indirect realism aswell, which i merged into this one. On the name for this page? lets discuss: Spencerk 07:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * "Representative realism" -861 google hits
 * "Representative Theory of Perception" - 517
 * "Indirect realism" -876
 * "epistemological dualism" -9,650

 * The problem with this merge is that the article claims that representative realism is "related to" indirect realism, while the redirect suggests that they are the same thing. I think this is a contradiction. Mark Foskey (talk) 03:21, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Biased opening, the rest unnecessarily oppositional
From first paragraph: "Naïve realism is known as direct realism when developed to counter indirect or representative realism, also known as epistemological dualism ..." [ref link non-operable] 1. If this was true, then this wiki article shouldn't exist, since 'direct realism' seems only a substitute label. 2. Naive's first Google definition is "showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment." Though used to define version of realism, it's connotations are distressing. Harry Heft, a leading researcher, uses Ecological or Natural Perception, or Radical Empiricism, never Naive Realism. 3. Direct Realism is not a counter position to Indirect Realism. Whether one agrees or not, leading contemporary texts by Edward S. Reed, James J. Gibson, Heft, and older work by William James, explain a set of concepts primarily with evidence and positive logic.

THE ENTIRE INTRODUCTION, except for the last sentence, defines Indirect Realism only. Given the article is title Direct and Indirect Realism, this is a bizarre asymmetry. The last sentence violates Direct Perception in many ways: "The alternative, that we have knowledge (1) of the outside (2) world that is unconstrained by our sense organs (3) and does not require interpretation (4), would appear to be inconsistent with everyday observation.(5)" (1) Direct Realism concerns ontological immediacy, knowledge is epistemological. Direct Realism does not make knowledge claims, but information ones. (2)Direct Realism describes perception as a relationship between environmental components, the observer and its views. It's evolutionarily consistent: organisms evolve to perceive what they evolve in. Environments select sensory systems that work. The "inside/outside" dichotomy misleads, because it suggests organisms contain something apart from environment. (3) Unconstrained sense organs? That sounds rather sexual, but has nothing to do with perception. (4) Direct perception may or may not require interpretation. Obviously, we don't interpret every moment. (5) It's hard to know what to say, since nothing said has much to do with Direct Realism. But the idea that we trip through 'everyday' experience continuously introspecting about perceptions would seem problematic to anyone driving on a highway. Is that really a car in front of me? Do I know it's about three car lengths? Oh, I've been trained by noting passing cars and counting time, dividing by our relative velocities, then multiplying by my own car length. Really? Or do we adjust speed to keep the car in front roughly the same size, and/or the distance between us the same. That's unmediated perception; safe distance is performed by birds, children, and amoebas. We adjust, through feedback that may be logically considered and forced back into our view of things. But we also adjust to feedback because new information adjusts behavior without thought.

Direct and Indirect Perception (better than Realism) both occur. It's silly to set them up as antithesis. Lehar's claim that "both direct and indirect realism are frankly incredible, although each is incredible for different reasons" is typical philosophical cant. Why not state the affirmative that both direct and indirect realism are credible, for different reasons? Instead, indirect realism is caricatured as anything that goes on 'in our heads' pretending to be a copy of the world, which means our head itself is a copy, ad nauseum. Humans think about the world in ways that try to make sense of it, or change it, or appreciate it, using logic, habit, rules, analogy. Neurologically, this engagement occurs across modules, yet can be isolated in specific neurons. Identity happens ubiquitously, not by self-reference. It's too complicated to fit linear philosophical reasoning.

The article goes to great lengths to oppose the two types of realism. One can ask, is this the only way to proceed in knowledge formation? Although an axiomatic theory must be criticized, establishing them as opposites makes both out to be more than they may really amount to. What if they exist on a continuum, or in a multivalent relationship that includes other unmentioned forms of perception?

- Brian Coyle

The Links Don't Work
The external links at the bottom of the page don't work. One link brings you to a page which says, "Error 404 - The Page Cannot Be Found". The other link brings you to a completely blank page. Can someone please fix this.

Representationalism (fine arts) and Representative realism (philosophy) are not the same.
I would like to ask two major questions. One is why is it that when I type in Representationalism (an artistic movement) I get a philosophical topic which seems to e related, but distictly difrent from what I am looking fp The second thing, is the link in the see also section labeled Representationalism takes you to this page. (circular linking) See the above remark regarding the seperate meanings. [Representationalism]

Related Subjects:

Artistic Realism

Comics

Computer and Video Games

(KickAssClown 08:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC))

Thomas Reid
Thomas Reid is a direct realist pur sang, and fierce critic of the concept of sense data, representationalism and the like. For this reason, I've removed the reference to him from this page.

Stdbrouw 11:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Aristotle reference needed!
I am desperate for a reference for 'Aristotle realised this and simply proposed that ideas themselves (representations) must be aware' for my phd. If anyone knows where this came from (if it is actually substantiative), please-o-please let me know at my talk page here. Excellent work on this article! Mark Elliott 01:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Aristotle's On the Soul Discusses this
More to the point, "holymorphic" is a 19th century invention that is somehow gifted backwards to Aristotle.

From the article: "In On the Soul he describes how a seer is informed of the object itself by way of the hylomorphic form carried over the intervening material continuum with which the eye is impressed.[5]"

This is wrong. First, the footnote gives a bald rendition of Aristotle's thinking. Second, nothing in On the Soul describes something carried over intervening material continuum to impress the eye. What grotesque babble.

Aristotle's theory of perception is direct. JA Smith's translation: "The activity of the sensible object and that of the percipient sense is one and the same activity..." To make it clear: "when that which can hear is actively hearing and which can sound is sounding, then the actual hearing and the actual sound are merged in one." No holymorphic forms flying across continuums.

Aristotle's direct perception was abandoned for nearly 2000 years. Brian Coyle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.80.117.214 (talk) 08:21, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Representative realism = Symbolism ???
Is representative realism the same as symbolism in literature? (Darkness symbolizes evil, apple symbolizes water...) Swannie 16:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No. Representative realism simply states that although there is a reality, we do not perceive it directly (we have no "reality detectors"). Instead, what we perceive when we seem to look at an object is the object's representation in our brain. We do not see things "as they really are", but what we make of them. This is consistent with what cognitive science, psychology and neurobiology tell us. We are looking at a philosophical theory of perception, whereas symbolism in literature is no theory, but a certain way of telling a story.

Proposed new section: 'Does the "Scientific Consensus" support Representative Realism?'
We propose something like the following two paragraphs for this section:

At canonizer.com a growing group of grass roots volunteers are developing rigorous ways to collaboratively develop and concisely state 'camps' representing accepted theories. And to also quantitatively measure who and how many people are in each. Everyone is encouraged to contribute, making the survey more comprehensive, and Mind Experts are determined by a peer ranking process which will enable quantitative measures of 'scientific consensus'.

This survey process is just getting started with a topic on theories of consciousness, but already a Consciousness is Representational and Real camp has established a clear early lead at how well it is developed and how much support it has. The members of this camp and the various supporting sub camps believe no other theory of consciousness will ever be able to match the amount of consensus this camp will be able to achieve going forward. And ultimately that demonstrable scientific proof will convert everyone into this camp revealing it to be THE ONE true theory of consciousness. The primary goal of canonizer.com is not to determine truth via popularity, but to simply rigorously measure how much support there is for all accepted theories, especially the good minority ones, and the best terminology to use to describe such, going forward as scientific evidence continues to come in at ever increasing rates. Brent_Allsop (talk) 03:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

It appears there is agreement that this would be a good addition, so I'm going to add it. Brent_Allsop (talk) 03:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Jw2035 has removed this above section that was proposed. He has also removed similar information from other Wikipedia topics, usually giving different versions of a list of 5 reasons for doing so. Rather than duplicate this discussion in all of these locations, a topic as been created on this issue at canonizer.com The various lists of reasons have been consolidated and a short history provided. So far the growing consensus is that in certain cases references to canonizer.com in wikipedia are appropriate. Since it is an open survey all pints of view are welcomed so we can know concisely and quantitatively what everyone thinks. Brent.Allsop (talk) 23:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

After extensive discussion and survey on this issue at canonizer.com, so far, the unanimous consensus is that these types of reference are appropriate. So I'm going to re-add an improved rewrite of the above. Brent.Allsop (talk) 21:03, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

 * You have got to be kidding. There is no way that web site is a reliable source by the standards here. I removed this nonsense. Please do not restore it without carefully reading WP:V or asking for input e.g. at the reliable sources noticeboard. This article is already bad enough without making it worse with this section. Tim Shuba (talk) 13:13, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Why is this article a magnet for bad ideas?
A popularity contest to determine which side wins? Why not let the Church decide? Why does direct perception strike such fear into, um, some people? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.80.117.214 (talk) 09:21, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Sociology
It seems that this notion is fairly important in the field of sociology, given that it is related to the philosophy of positivism. It is also mentioned in Schopenahuer's book The World as Will and Representation. ADM (talk) 11:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Positivism is largely obsolete as regard to sociology, so any connection must then be a kind of critical relation, maybe antagonism. And I've gotten the impression that positivism is an empiricist extreme rejection of knowing the underlying nature of observed thing, up to and including things other humans think they can safely deduce. I'm not sure this relates very strongly to representative realism, except insofar as the doubts of the senses is shared. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 13:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

What?

 * Although Descartes duality of natural substances may have echoes in modern physics (Bose and Fermi statistics) no agreed account of 'interpretation' has been formulated.

I don't think even the author of that sentence knows what they mean.

Descartes thought that there is a physical material world and there is also a soul or a world of the mind, and that the latter is also real but exists on a separate plane and is not composed of the same stuff as anything else is. This has absolutely nothing to do with the how modern physics can classify the components of the physical material world into different categories, such as by the parity of their quantum wavefunction representations. To say otherwise is like saying that vitalism has echoes in the fact that some particles do or do not have rest mass, it shows a complete misunderstanding of the meaning of the philosophical term. (At best, you might try to draw such an allusion for the purposes of explaining the physics, but not for the purposes of explaining the philosophy. It's not as if the brain were made of fermions and everything else of bosons.) I think this is just mysticist trash that has crept into the article, and symptomatic that the article is struggling (failing) to clearly explain the topic. Perhaps it would help if the lead began by contrasting the most extreme characatures of the two positions, leaving the subtle nuance for later in the article? Cesiumfrog (talk) 01:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Dualism between metaphysical(?) and physical
The word metaphysical isn't used anywhere else in the article, and I don't think it is being used correctly in the Problems with the indirect theory section in this sentence:

"This also brings up the problem of dualism and its relation to representative realism, concerning the incongruous marriage of the metaphysical and the physical."

Would it be better to say "incongruous marriage of the representational and the physical?" --Golden Eternity (talk) 08:24, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Social Constructivism Paragraph
The paragraph starting with "A more fundamental criticism is implied in theories of this type. The differences at the sensory and perceptual levels between agents require that some means of ensuring at least a partial correlation can be achieved that..."

is rather confusingly worded. It might be helpful to clear it up at least grammatically, if not also in terms of meaning. It's a little hard to see for me how a philosophical argument about the nature of perception is linked to social constructivism, but that's just an aside. 79.246.213.187 (talk) 21:26, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Veil of perception
Veil of perception redirects here. In which case, this idea goes way back, before Aristotle. Fethi Benslama is a French psychoanalyst who talks about direct and indirect realism that the prophet Muhammad experienced with an angel and then had his wife interpret for him whether it was real or not. Would anyone like to comment? Would you like "Veil of perception" to be explained in this article or would you like to separate them? USchick (talk) 22:57, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

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Proposed merge
As others have noted before, it seems like the Naïve realism article covers the same subject matter as this material, and I can't see any reason to keep them separate from one another. I'm therefore planning on merging them if there's consensus in favor of it, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts either way. --Drevolt (talk) 08:16, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As defined in this article, it seems that Direct Realism is just an iteration of Naïve realism - that the former only assumes this form when it is used to counter Indirect Realism. I have also found a text that might illuminate their difference. According to Smythies and French, "while each [form of Naïve realism] entails Direct Realism, Direct Realism does not entail any of them, for one can be Moderate Direct Realist and reject each of these forms of perceptual naivete". Successfully refuting the other does not mean that the other was also refuted. Darwin Naz (talk) 22:29, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support merge; as Darwin Naz points out, the shades of meaning are sufficient subtle that it seems very reasonable to discuss in one place. Klbrain (talk) 18:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Against merge; Aren't these terms that evolve over time, and in the hands of different authors, so that they can't in fact be reduced to versions of each other? Also, as someone who is currently digging into some bits of philosophy, I come across the term 'naive realism' quite a lot, 'direct realism' not at all. The danger with a merge is that you leave the largest part of the audience without an explicit acclount of what naive realism is.Willbown (talk) 07:34, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose because the Naive realism page talks about what naive realism is, while this page only talks about what these philosophical ideas are not. At least, I assume that is why this page only has sections on "problems with" direct and indirect realism without ever having any section on what either of these ideas actually is. NHammen (talk) 05:47, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Closing, given the uncontested objections and stale discussion. Klbrain (talk) 22:22, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Direct and indirect realism