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Talk:White spirit

Untitled
What is the solubility of CO2 gas within Stoddard solvent? I think this is vital information that needs to be in this article.

Disposal
The article says it should be disposed of properly, but doesn't describe what "properly" is. I think some clarification would be helpful. Jsaurman (talk) 17:21, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well don't tip it down the sink. Correct disposal will depend on jurisdiction, and some places may have paint disposal that can handle this. Probably undue for this article. Personally I let it evaporate. Bacteria will finish it of somewhere. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:01, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Is White Spirit an Acetic Acid?
Or are they of the same thing?
 * White spirit and acetic acid are unrelated chemically. --Ed (Edgar181) 17:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

White spirit does not cause any corrosive damage to the skin, but it dissolves the natural oils found on it, causing it to dry out. This can cause irritation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.33.116.91 (talk) 09:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What is White Spirit used for in the home? Is it harmful to the skin? TurboForce 17:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Is White Spirit what the Americans call Naptha?
Are they the same thing? How does White Spirit relate to Turpentine Substitute? Can you use it in Coleman fuel lamps in the same way that you can use paraffin? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.210.144.145 (talk) 20:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

 * The article on naphtha says it's the same except that in UK white spirit is something completely different. Unfortunately the present article does not currently expound on this. __meco 08:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

White spirit is not Naptha. Naptha is a generic name for a certain fraction of oil. White spirit compounds are from this fraction. 78.33.116.91 (talk) 09:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC) JoeV

Merge?
Shouldn't this be merged with Mineral spirits? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelk08 (talk • contribs) 22:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

merge with mineral spirits
I think not, mineral spirits come from oil, white spirits do not so they are not the same thing at all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.23.48 (talk) 15:09, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

No, don't merge. American house painters and artists are accustomed to the term Mineral Spirits (used almost generically to describe solvents other than Turpentine) and would never think to look up White Spirits, which is a term seldom if ever used)--drdarrow (talk) 15:00, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. If the articles are merged, the redirect from mineral spirits would point people to white spirits, and the article says that the US and Canada are the only places that use "mineral spirits." Furthermore, the grade of white spirits is determined by the oil from which they are derived, so indeed white spirits also come from oil. The merits of merging are that the articles won't be separated, which means one less page to load for those with slow or unreliable connections. Tealwisp (talk) 03:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Surely the question is: "Are Mineral Spirits and White Spirit the same thing?" - after reading these articles, I still don't know! The article on White spirit says it is comprised mostly of C7 to C12 hydrocarbons and was developed as a dry cleaner and is used as a paint thinner and solvent; the article on Mineral Spirits says it is mostly hexane (C6) and used as an artist's oil paint thinner. Sounds like different substances. But then we're told that 'Mineral Spirits' are known as 'White spirit' in the UK - and both articles state that they are also known as Stoddard solvent.

Please can someone resolve this. If they are the same, then of course the articles should be merged, with a stub redirecting one term to the other - same as any other synonym. And the composition should be clarified - is it mostly C6 or C7-C12? If they are different, then there should be two articles, with a clear explanation of the different terms used in the US and UK. 147.114.226.193 (talk) 16:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

In Australia there are bottles of Mineral Spirits and White Spirits made by the same company side by side, so they seem to be different products. I came here to determine what the differences are and it seems to be that it depends on who you are. An authoritive chemical definition would be nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.41.200 (talk) 05:08, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

they are unique substances. the problem arises where they are all so generic terms. for that I don't think a merge is in order but just a clarification.Donhoraldo (talk) 02:42, 5 may 2010

merge with mineral spirits
Merging would not be appropriate in this case. Stoddard Solvent (referred to as Total Petroleum Hydrocarbon Stoddard Solvent, abbreviated TPH-SS) was used for many years as a dry cleaning solvent, and is an important environmental contaminant. It predated solvents like PCE, having a mixture of aromatic, long chain and branched chain hydrocarbons. Historic dry cleaning operations stored Stoddard Solvent in on-site storage tanks, which often leaked, causing groundwater impacts. When the TPH-SS ages, the C-7 to C-15 chains degrade, which can begin to elute in the gasoline range of gas chromatographs (TPH-G). Over time, however, the mixture loses the more volatile constituents, so that chromatograph lacks peaks associated with aromatic moieties. The stuff by itself is very interesting, so merging it with mineral spirits, a much more generic term, and would therefore diminish its usefulness in context.

I am a newbie, so pardon my inability to spend more time here (just wanted to comment on the merger question). According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, Case Studies in Environmental Medicine (CSEM)

"Stoddard Solvent. Stoddard solvent is a petroleum distillate widely used as a dry cleaning solvent and as a general cleaner and degreaser. It may also be used as a paint thinner, as a solvent in some types of photocopier toners, in some types of printing inks, and in some adhesives. Stoddard solvent is considered to be a form of mineral spirits, white spirits, and naphtha; however, not all forms of mineral spirits, white spirits, and naphtha are considered to be Stoddard solvent (ATSDR 1995b). Stoddard solvent consists of 30-50% linear and branched alkanes, 30-40% cycloalkanes, and 10-20% aromatic hydrocarbons. Its typical hydrocarbon chain ranges from C7 through C12 in length."

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp123-c3.pdf, pg 21.

Ellezeebub (talk) 23:34, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I have a problem with any references that say that there are aromatic components in Stoddard Solvent, or white spirits, or "naptha" in the USA. This appears in the beginning of this article and is incorrect, so I removed it. The for this material says there is none in its chemical definition. If CDC references say this, it is also obsolete and incorrect.

User: dacarls, Organic chemist. July 6, 2010

re: a solvent in some types of photocopier toners - I have worked in this industry since 1973, and I can state with authority that such usage has been obsolete since ca.1990LorenzoB (talk) 04:30, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

'''No consensus... to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:38, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

White spirit → Mineral spirit – Mineral spirit seems to be the most common name for this chemical, but I'd like some confirmation from the rest of the community. D O N D E groovily  Talk to me  04:32, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Could this be a US/Europe thing? I've never heard this refered to as anything other than "White Spirit". Absconded Northerner (talk) 13:50, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose – I've never heard of 'mineral spirits'. I suspect this title may well be covered by the provisions of WP:ENGVAR as a British term vs Mineral spirits in the US, in which case we should leave ity where it is. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 13:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose - answering my own question from above, the term "Mineral spirits" is used in the UK, but is much, much less common. Google shopping returned 3,120 results for White spirit, but only 156 for Mineral spirits. Absconded Northerner (talk) 13:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose. What is Mineral spirit? Isn't the stuff always called either 'white spirit' or 'turps substitute'? Which last, I notice, has its own separate article. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:07, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Always called white spirit in the UK. Possibly a WP:ENGVAR issue, in which case it should be kept at the title under which it was created. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This is fascinating, since as a US native I never knew it was called anything other than "mineral spirit," but if it really is, as it seems to be, an ENGVAR issue, then no unnecessary move should be made. Any input from other English-speaking countries? Is one term predominant? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Invention and history
The article states: "In 1924, Atlanta dry cleaner W. J. Stoddard worked with Lloyd E. Jackson of the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research to develop a less volatile dry cleaning solvent as an alternative to the petroleum solvents in use. Dry cleaners began using the result of their work in 1928 and it soon became the predominant dry cleaning solvent in the United States, until the late 1950s." This intimates that they were the inventors in 1924. However, Samuel Banner & Company Ltd claim to have invented White Spirit and were selling it in 1885.

See Banner Chemicals - 150 Years of Innovation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.118.224.152 (talk) 09:48, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Undiscussed Merges
There are 4 sections above wherein it was proposed/requested that the "Mineral Spirits" article be merged with this article. In each of those sections there was either no concensus on a merge, or the merge was opposed. However, as of today(2015-12-13), only this "White Spirits" article appears to exist. The "Mineral Spirits" article appears to have been deleted and is now just a re-direct to this article. On 2011-08-07 user "Ego White Tray"(A "retired" Wiki User) merged in the "Mineral Spirits" article, and on 2012-09-29 user "Ruud Koot"(A user from the Netherlands) merged in the "Mineral Turpentine" article. Both of these merges were done without any discussion here. Should these merges be reversed and the original articles restored? Gcronau (talk) 15:08, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No, they should not be unmerged, unless there is some evidence that they are fundamentally different substances. The last discussion on this was a suggestion to move the article title to "Mineral spirits" which was pretty unanimously opposed, accepted that they were the same, and was formally closed. SpinningSpark 16:43, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the merger has resulted in a bit of a WP:ENGVAR mess. Presumably White Spirit was originally BE and Mineral Spirits AE. It's not clear what standard should be adopted in these circumstances. --Ef80 (talk) 12:45, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The last versions of Mineral spirits and White spirit prior to the merge both used the spelling odor. On that basis, and per WP:RETAIN, I would say the article should be in American English. SpinningSpark 19:54, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In that case, the article should be renamed to Mineral spirits, with White spirit as a redirect. --Ef80 (talk) 23:27, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * See the discussion further up the page, which decided to keep it at this title. And partially retracting what I said above, the very oldest version of White spirit uses the spelling odour. Not sure at what point it was changed or why, but the principle of WP:RETAIN says that the spelling should be changed back, not the article title. SpinningSpark 19:27, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

 * I can see good reason to merge these, giving a clearer overall article, but it has to lose the falsehood that "white spirit" and "substitute turpentine" (both UK) are the same thing. They both have formal definitions and although both are mineral petroleum derivatives, they are significantly different. Otherwise you might as well merge petrol and diesel. For one obvious thing, white spirit will evaporate cleanly, turps sub leaves an oily residue. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:47, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Type/Grade Confusion
In the "Types and Grades" section of the article is the following statement: "Each type comprises three different grades: low flash grade, regular grade, and high flash grade." To me, this implies that each type is available in each of the 3 grades, for a total of 9 different type/grade combinations. (Not counting the Type 0, which appears to be handled differently.) Further, the definition of what a "type" is seems to be confirmed by the information in the smaller table in the following "Chemical Numbers" section. However, the large table in the "Chemical Properties" section confuses this information as it seems to tie each of the 3 grades, "Low", "Regular", and "High" to one specific type each. Ie: Type 1 to Low, Type 2 to Regular, and Type 3 to High. Which seems wrong, or at least contradictory to the previous sections. Can anyone sort this out? Gcronau (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

 * Agreed. In the referenced INCHEM report, a text search produces two matches for "white spirit type 1, regular grade".
 * White spirit (EHC 187, 1996) (inchem.org)
 * Although, I would prefer to call it "regular flash" as it's more descriptive than "regular grade". Therefore, "low flash", "regular flash", and "high flash".
 * Also, there is MIL-PRF-680 that is available to use as further reference, although this is strictly for the United States. The types I, II, and III referenced by this specification appear to correspond to the low/regular/high flash grades.
 * Any other literature I can find about white spirits mostly seem very limited, vague, or contradictory. I have a feeling that a lot of this information are held within proprietary oil & gas industry knowledge bases instead. I can't even find reliable information from chemical vendors; some product pages make it seem they have no clue what white spirits they are dealing with.
 * But then again, I'm not formally trained in chemistry or oil derivatives. I'm just interpreting whatever I read. 165.225.36.123 (talk) 21:33, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Correction: Only types I and II of the MIL-PRF-680 specification somewhat correspond to regular/high flash grades, respectively. 165.225.36.123 (talk) 21:42, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:White spirit


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Talk:RAF Akrotiri

''There is some problem with the locals not led by... .''

Untitled
Not led by what?! Loganberry 01:52, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:RAF Akritori base.jpg
The image Image:RAF Akritori base.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --02:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

RAF Akrotiri crest
File:RAF Akrotiri crest.jpg The RAF Akrotiri crest is up for use and I just added into the article, problem is... it doesn't work! Can someone help please!? --Dave1185 (talk) 18:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned references in RAF Akrotiri
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of RAF Akrotiri's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "AFMFEB15": From Operation Shader:  From Military intervention against ISIL order of battle:  From American-led intervention in Iraq (2014–present):

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 15:59, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Citation in the infobox title
@Gavbadger Ok, I watched the edit warring over whether it's "RAF" or "Royal Air Force Station" the other day, but do we really need a citation in the title of the infobox? This seems somewhat WP:POINTY and counter to MOS:INFOBOXREF. Isn't there a place in the body where you can place that citation, if you absolutely must do so? – Recoil16 (talk) 11:35, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies, will move the ref. Gavbadger (talk) 11:43, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks – Recoil16 (talk) 11:48, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Source edit today - UK government places a block on parliamentary questions about Akrotiri
There is a classic misreading of a source today. Doubly bad is that an editor repeats it, although doubtless meant in good faith. ie, ''Blockks don't passively happen. Someone enforces them. In this case it was the UK government and Rishi Sunak. The source says "Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is reported to have enforced an extraordinary blockade on parliamentary questioning about ... " and MacAskill was told that his question - '' - 'Is reported as saying' is gossip, not fact, so don't report it as a fact. The MoD refused to answer questions about an ongoing operation. MacAskill's whinging opinion is not relevant to this article. The source is low grade, biased and tabloid standard and should be used with care. I suggest you look at wp:RSS and other useful links. And, read what a source actually says before adding it to back your opinion of what it says. This story has little to do with the topic of this article. It is veering off course into uk domestic politics. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 13:07, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

 * The source says "Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is reported to have enforced an extraordinary blockade on parliamentary questioning about ongoing secret operations in the UK air base in Cyprus, Akrotiri, Declassified UK has revealed". When MP Kenny MacAskill lodged questions about Akrotiri he was told that his question "is subject to a block by Government". "The passive voice is the favourite rhetorical tool of propagandists worldwide, who “regret the mistakes that were made” without having to admit who made them". We should avoid the use of the passive voice to hide the person or group responsible for the block. Burrobert (talk) 13:15, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The source, in the part above, quotes an advocacy website which means it is not from the source. The source is not a good source anyway because it is biased. See first sentence: "The British government is refusing to answer questions over whether it is supplying weapons to the Israeli military to conduct its operations in Gaza which bears disturbing hallmarks of genocide and ethnic cleansing." A quick check reveals there is nothing about this 'story' except a couple of mentions in a local Scottish rag about the Scottish MP. Just because a website mentions the name of an article doesn't mean that should be added to the wiki article. Before using sourced detail you have to spend time considering if the information and/or the source should be used. In this case the source should not be used and the information is barely notable and only loosely relates the Akrotiri. I think my change should be removed with the source, but if kept it can easily be tweaked for style, which is a different matter. There is no need to start another sub-heading on this talk page. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 20:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The government lifted the block on questions after a recess. (Or should we say "The block was lifted after a recess"?) So perhaps that point can be removed. It also means more information is now available about operations from Akrotiri to Israel since 7 October so we can expand the section. Burrobert (talk) 02:11, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:RAF Akrotiri


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Robert McClure

Vice-Admiral Sir Robert John Le Mesurier McClure (28 January 1807 – 17 October 1873) was an Irish explorer who explored the Arctic. In 1854 he traversed the Northwest Passage by boat and sledge, and was the first to circumnavigate the Americas.

Early life and career
McClure was born in Wexford in the south-east of Ireland. His father was Captain Robert McClure from County Londonderry in Ulster, who was serving with the 89th Foot. McClure's mother (the daughter of Archdeacon John Elgee) and father had met and married while his father was stationed in Wexford in 1807; but, his father had died by the time of McClure's birth. He was a first cousin of Jane Wilde, the mother of Oscar Wilde, and spent his childhood under the care of his godfather, John Le Mesurier, governor of Alderney, by whom he was educated for the army. It is said that this branch of the McClures, who settled in County Londonderry in the 1650s, during the Plantation of Ulster, were actually MacLeods whose names had been altered.

He entered the Royal Navy in 1824, and twelve years later gained his first experience of Arctic exploration as mate of HMS Terror (1813) on an expedition commanded by Captain George Back. On his return, he obtained his commission as a lieutenant and from 1838 to 1839 served on the Canadian lakes. Subsequently, he was attached to the North American and West Indian naval stations, where he remained until 1846.

Two years later, in 1848, he joined a search expedition in their attempt to recover Franklin's lost expedition, an ill-fated expedition to traverse the Northwest Passage led by Sir John Franklin that was missing since 1845. McClure served under James Clark Ross as first HMS Enterprise (1848)'s first lieutenant.

Northwest Passage
After he returned from the first Franklin search expedition, a new search expedition launched in 1850, commanded by Richard Collinson on HMS Enterprise and McClure as his subordinate, given command of HMS Investigator (1848). The ships sailed south on the Atlantic, navigated through the Strait of Magellan to the Pacific Ocean assisted by the steam-sloop HMS Gorgon. Collinson and McClure became separated and had no further contact for the rest of their respective journeys.

Investigator sailed north through the Pacific and entered the Arctic Ocean by way of Bering Strait, and sailing eastward past Point Barrow, Alaska, to eventually link up with another British expedition from the northwest. Investigator was abandoned to the pack ice in the spring of 1853. McClure and his crew undertook a sledge journey and were rescued when they happened upon a party from HMS Resolute (1850) – one of the ships commanded by Sir Edward Belcher, who sailed into the Arctic region from the east. Subsequently, he completed his journey across the Northwest Passage. Resolute itself did not make it out of the Arctic that year; it was abandoned in ice, but later recovered.

Thus, McClure and his crew were the first both to circumnavigate the Americas, and to transit the Northwest Passage – considerable feats at that time. Enterprise returned to Point Barrow in 1850, a fortnight later than Investigator, and found the passage blocked by winter ice. They had to turn back and return the following year; it conducted its own Arctic explorations, but credit for the Northwest Passage already belonged to McClure.

On his return to the United Kingdom, in 1854, McClure was court martialled for the loss of Investigator. This was automatic when a captain lost his ship. Following an honourable acquittal, McClure was knighted and promoted to post-rank, his commission being dated back four years in recognition of his special services. McClure and his crew shared a monetary reward of £10,000 by the British Parliament.

McClure was also honoured by both British and French geographical societies. In 1855, he was elected a member of the American Antiquarian Society.

Later career
From 1856 to 1861 he served in eastern waters, commanding a division of the Naval Brigade before Canton in 1858, for which he received the Order of the Bath. His latter years were spent in a quiet country life; he attained the rank of rear-admiral in 1867, and became a vice-admiral in 1873. He died later that year.

McClure is buried at Kensal Green Cemetery, London. His epitaph reads: 'Thus We Launch into this Formidable Frozen Sea. Spes Mea in Deo.' McClure Strait was later named after him, as well as the lunar McClure crater in the Mare Fecunditatis, the Sea of Fertility.

title: Robert McClure


text:
Treaty of Füssen

The Peace of Füssen (Frieden von Füssen) was a peace treaty signed at Füssen, between the Electorate of Bavaria and Habsburg Austria. Signed on 22 April 1745, it ended the participation of Bavaria on the French side in the War of the Austrian Succession.

Background
After the conquest of Prague by Bavarian and French troops on 26 November 1741, Elector Charles Albert of Bavaria, with French and Prussian support, declared himself King of Bohemia and was elected Emperor Charles VII on 24 January 1742. Charles Albert was then crowned on 12 February.

On the same day as his coronation in Frankfurt, however, Austrian troops occupied Bavaria and Hungarian hussars plundered Munich and the Bavarians were forced also to evacuate Bohemia which they had occupied for a few months. With French assistance, Charles VII fought Austria for three years, but was unable to secure victory.

When Charles VII died in Munich on 20 January 1745, his successor as Elector of Bavaria, Maximilian III Joseph, signed a preliminary peace with Austria. But a strong war-party led by Ignaz von Törring and supported by France wanted to continue the war.

After the decisive defeat in the Battle of Pfaffenhofen on 15 April, Maximilian Joseph chose for peace.

Peace treaty
The formal peace treaty signed in Füssen consisted of seventeen articles, two side articles, and a secret additional clause.

Maximilian abandoned his father's claim on Bohemia and recognized the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713. Austria did not demand any reparations and recognized the legitimacy of Charles VII's election as Holy Roman Emperor. Maximilian III promised to support the imperial candidacy of Maria Theresa's husband and future Habsburgs, Francis Stephen of Lorraine, and to influence the votes of the Electorate of the Palatinate and the Electorate of Cologne, both ruled by the Wittelsbach.

The treaty was signed by Joseph Fürst zu Fürstenberg for Bavaria and Rudolf Graf von Colloredo for Austria.

title: Treaty of Füssen


text:
James Pike

James Albert Pike (February 14, 1913–c. September 3–7, 1969) was an American Episcopal bishop, accused heretic, writer, and one of the first mainline religious figures to appear regularly on television.

Pike's outspoken, and to some of his fellow bishops, heretical, views on many theological and social issues made him one of the most controversial public figures of his time. He was an early proponent of the ordination of women and racial desegregation within mainline churches. The chain smoking Pike was the fifth Bishop of California and, a few years before he began to explore spiritualism and psychic phenomena in an effort to contact his deceased son, became a recovering alcoholic.

Early life
Pike was born in Oklahoma City on February 14, 1913 to James A. Pike and Pearl Agatha Wimsatt Pike. His father died when he was two and he moved to California with his mother who married California attorney Claude McFadden. Pike, who was Roman Catholic, graduated from Hollywood High School in 1930 and considered entering the priesthood; however, in the two years he attended Santa Clara University, a private Jesuit school, he came to consider himself an agnostic. Pike transferred to the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) for a year, then transferred again to the University of Southern California (USC), where he received his B.A. in 1934 and an LL.B. from the university's law school in 1936. That same year, he was admitted to the California bar.

Pike received a Sterling Fellowship and earned a J.S.D. from Yale Law School in 1938. After leaving Yale, he served as a staff attorney for the New Deal-era Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington, D.C. from 1938 to 1942, in addition to lecturing on federal procedure at Catholic University of America Law School (1938–1939) and on civil procedure at George Washington University Law School (1939–1942). He then established the law firm of Pike and Fischer with a fellow attorney, specializing in the publication of books on federal judicial and administrative procedure.

Pike married Jane Alvies, a lapsed Christian Scientist agnostic, in Los Angeles on August 14, 1938. They separated at the beginning of 1940 and were divorced in October 1941. On January 29, 1942, he married Esther Yanovsky whom he had met while she was attending his law class at George Washington.

Conversion and early church life
During the Second World War, Pike joined the Office of Naval Intelligence in 1942, and later sought and received a commission as Lieutenant (jg) in the Naval Reserve. In 1943, he was accepted as a postulant in the Protestant Episcopal Church. In 1944, he moved to the United States Maritime Commission (MARCOM), War Shipping Administration, but then requested and received inactive duty status due to his ordination as deacon by the Bishop of Washington D.C., Angus Dun, on December 21, 1944.

His first appointment in the Church was as a curate at St. John's Episcopal Church, Lafayette Square, in Washington, D.C. from 1944 to 1946, while also serving as chaplain to Episcopal students at George Washington University.

Pike first entered Virginia Theological Seminary (1945–1946) and then Union Theological Seminary (B.Div., 1951) to prepare for the priesthood. He was ordained as a priest on November 1, 1946. He then accepted an appointment as Rector of Christ Church, Poughkeepsie, where he served as chaplain to students at Vassar College. In 1949, he became chaplain at Columbia University, where, together with Professor Ursula Niebuhr, he established Columbia's Department of Religion.

Pike graduated from Union Theological Seminary in 1951. Remaining on the adjunct faculty of Columbia, he became the Dean of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in 1952. Using his new position and media savvy, he made the pulpit a place for discussion of the religious and social problems of the day, vociferously opposing the local Catholic bishops over their attacks on Planned Parenthood and their opposition to birth control. He accepted an invitation to receive an honorary doctorate from The University of the South in Tennessee, but then publicly declined after finding that the university did not admit African Americans. An example of Pike's use of the media is how he released his letter to The New York Times before it was delivered to Sewanee's trustees: they heard the news when reporters called for reactions. It was also at this time that he publicly challenged Senator Joseph McCarthy's allegation that 7,000 American pastors were part of a Kremlin conspiracy; when the newly elected President Dwight D. Eisenhower backed up Pike, McCarthy and his movement began to lose their influence.

Pike was now known as a spokesman for liberal Protestantism and, in 1955, was invited by the American Broadcasting Company (ABC) to host his own weekly television program, The Dean Pike Show, (later renamed The Bishop Pike Show) which made celebrities of Pike and his wife, and soon eclipsed Bishop Fulton J. Sheen's long-running Life Is Worth Living in popularity. Common topics included birth control, abortion laws, racism, capital punishment, apartheid, antisemitism, and farm worker exploitation, with Pike weighing in at the end to give what he called "a five-minute commercial for God." In 1956, he participated in a trip to Israel to study and report on Arab refugee problems and, in 1957, he was appointed to the seven-person (Harold Lionel ) Zellerbach Commission, created by the International Rescue Committee, to study the European Iron Curtain refugee issue.

Between 1952 and 1958, Pike also wrote seven books, including quite orthodox and widely read titles like Doing the Truth and Beyond Anxiety.

Election as bishop
Pike was elected on the sixth ballot as bishop coadjutor of California on February 4, 1958 and was consecrated bishop on May 15, 1958. He then succeeded to the see on September 20, 1958, following the death of his predecessor, Karl Morgan Block, to become the fifth Bishop of California. He served in this position until 1966, when, plagued by personal loss, absorbed with the paranormal, tired of diocesan attacks, wrangling and administration, and exhausted from hyperactivity, he resigned his office to become a senior fellow for the Center for the Study of Democratic Institutions in Santa Barbara, California, a liberal think tank founded by Robert Maynard Hutchins, where he began an extensive schedule of speaking engagements. During this period, he was an adjunct professor at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law (1966–1967) and the Graduate Theological Union (1966).

His episcopate was marked by both professional and personal controversy. He was one of the leaders of the Protestants and Other Americans United for the Separation of Church and State movement, which advocated against John F. Kennedy's presidential campaign because of Catholic teachings. While at Grace Cathedral, he was involved with promoting a living wage for workers in San Francisco, the acceptance of LGBT people in the church, and civil rights. He also recognized a Methodist minister as having dual ordination and freedom to serve in the diocese. Later, he ordained a woman as a first-order deacon, now known as a "transitional deacon," usually the first step in the process towards ordination in the priesthood in the Episcopal church. The ordination was not approved until after Pike's death.

Among his notable accomplishments, Pike invited Martin Luther King Jr. to speak at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco in 1965 following his march to Selma, Alabama.

Pike's theology involved the rejection of central Christian beliefs. His writings questioned a number of widely accepted tenets, including the virginity of Mary, the Mother of Jesus; the doctrine of Hell, and the Trinity. He famously called for "fewer beliefs, more belief." Heresy procedures were begun by a small group of bishops headed by the Bishop of South Florida, Henry I. Louttit, in 1962, 1964, 1965, and 1966, each growing in intensity. The Episcopal House of Bishops, realizing the damage that a public trial of a prelate of Pike's standing would do to the image of the Church, attempted to head off further proceedings in 1966 with a hastily-conceived censure motion designed to satisfy his accusers, denouncing Pike's conduct and doctrinal statements: "His writing and speaking on profound realities with which Christian faith and worship are concerned are too often marred by caricatures of treasured symbols and at the worst, by cheap vulgarizations of great expressions of the faith." Pike, however, found the censure so abhorrent that he demanded the trial "to clear my name."

Attempting to avoid what would be a demoralizing proceeding, the Episcopal Convention got Pike to agree to drop his demands in exchange for their passing a canon that made it harder to bring official charges of heresy accusations, and to institute special provisions for "due process" in any future censures. While Pike's previous censure was not invalidated, the fact that he had been denied a formal hearing cast a "shadow of irresponsibility" on that action. The result was that the House of Bishops agreed to make the term "heresy" obsolete, with censure only being levied for "acts" and not for "opinion or teaching." The Convention also created an advisory committee on "theological freedom," which included Pike and other prominent theologians.

The Other Side
In 1966, after they had shared a sabbatical study at Cambridge University, Pike's son, Jim Jr., fatally shot himself in a New York City hotel room. Shortly after his son's death, Pike reported experiencing poltergeist phenomena — books vanishing and reappearing, safety pins open and indicating the approximate hour of his son's death, half the clothes in a closet disarranged and heaped up. Pike led a public pursuit of various spiritualist and clairvoyant methods of contacting his deceased son to reconcile. In September 1967, Pike participated in a televised séance with his dead son through the medium Arthur Ford, an ordained minister in the Disciples of Christ church. Pike detailed these experiences in his book The Other Side.

Personal life and death

Pike's first marriage to Jane Alvies had ended in divorce in 1941, although Pike claimed it had been annulled. He then had married Esther Yanovsky in 1942; they had four children, two boys and two girls. Before his second wife filed for divorce in 1965, Pike had been living openly with his secretary, Maren Hackett Bergrud, until her suicide in 1967 at age 43, after she had taken an overdose of sleeping pills in his apartment after they had had an argument. Pike officiated at her funeral.

In 1968, in defiance of C. Kilmer Myers, the Bishop who succeeded him, he married Diane Kennedy, a Methodist student twenty-five years his junior, with whom he had collaborated on The Other Side. Diane Pike claimed Pike had only legally separated from, not divorced, his second wife in 1967, and that because his marriage was spiritually dead, Myers not only gave permission for the marriage, but agreed to officiate–then mysteriously reneged, while still upholding his judgment on their marriage. Three days after the wedding, Pike was barred from all priestly functions, including preaching, in Episcopal churches, presumably because he'd married without the approval of the Episcopal diocesan. The couple considered that their options were to demand a trial, which they claimed would have a biased outcome, or leave the church. In April 1969, they established the Foundation for Religious Transition (renamed the Bishop Pike Foundation after his death), formalizing a ministry to aid people who "found themselves on the edge of institutional Christianity." Pike formally announced he was leaving the Episcopal church, stating: "The poor may inherit the earth, but it would appear that the rich — or at least the rigid, respectable and safe — will inherit the church."

In August 1969, Pike and Diane traveled to Israel, to do research for a proposed book on the historical Jesus. Wanting to have a feeling for the landscape where Jesus went into the wilderness to fast and meditate for 40 days, on September 2 they drove into the Judean Desert outside of Jerusalem, planning to drive to Qumran, where the Dead Sea Scrolls had been discovered. Despite Pike having visited Israel before, they were unprepared for what they assumed would be a short drive, buying only two Cokes along the way and taking no water or a guide with them. Using an Avis map they'd been given at the airport with their rented Ford Cortina, they took several wrong turns before their vehicle became stuck in a deep rut on a tertiary dirt road. The Pikes vainly attempted to use the car's jack to free it, believing it was missing its base (it was a one-piece European model they were unfamiliar with). After an hour of stressful efforts to get the car to move, they decided to walk what they thought was north toward Qumran, where they knew there would be water. What they did not know was that they were far south of Qumran, and heading farther south into Wadi Mashash (Hebrew names: Wadi Dargot or מצוקי דרגות - Metsoke Dargot/Dragot, which translates to 'steep cliffs'). After two hours of walking in the tremendous heat, and with night approaching, a dehydrated and exhausted Pike could go no farther, and they found a relatively flat rock under a bit of an overhang that gave them some shade. Diane was concerned that if she lay down to die with him and their bodies were found together, it might be assumed their death was a suicide, whereas if her body were discovered partway to Qumran it would be obvious she had attempted to get help.

After ten long hours of climbing on the walls of the canyon and stumbling upon a road under construction (now the road to Mitzpe Shalem), she came to a camp of Arab laborers. They gave her tea to drink until the foreman came and took her to the nearest army camp, but the search for Pike did not start until well into that day. The news that Bishop Pike was reported missing in the Judean Desert was immediately given front page coverage in the New York Times. Diane Pike, in spite of her exhaustion and injuries, participated in the rescue attempt. While their car was soon found, there was no sign of her husband. As the number of search efforts began to dwindle on the third day, she relied on many mediums and seers, including the one who had worked with Pike in trying to contact his son, who offered visions of where her husband's body might be.

After five days, Pike's body was found on September 7, 1969, south of the route his wife had taken. He had found a large pool of water in a shaded area of the canyon bed, but instead of remaining there, continued to follow what he thought was his wife's route, leaving a trail of a map, undershorts, sunglasses, and her contact lens case, to indicate the path he had taken. Pike was apparently climbing a steep canyon wall in Wadi Mashash when he slipped and fell more than 60 feet to his death. The date of death on the burial certificate is "(?) September 2, 1969"; some sources cite it as between September 3 and 7. He was buried in the Protestant cemetery in Jaffa, Israel, on September 8, 1969.

In literature
Bishop Pike was an inspiration for the character of Timothy Archer in Philip K. Dick's book The Transmigration of Timothy Archer. Dick and Pike were friends; Pike had officiated at Dick's 1966 wedding to Nancy Hackett, Maren Hackett Bergrud's stepdaughter. Joan Didion wrote about Pike and the building of the Grace Cathedral in her collection of essays The White Album (1979).

E.L. Doctorow incorporated Pike as a mentor for his fictionalized character, Reverend Dr. Thomas Pemberton, in his novel City of God (2000). In a prayer, Pemberton reveals the story of his search to escape ritualization and find illumination in the wilds of Africa, in the same way that Pike ventured into the wilderness around Jerusalem in an attempt to connect to the historical Jesus.

Major works

 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as
 * Also published as

title: James Pike


text:
User talk:Humblefool/Archive 2

Please be civil, and know that I will respond soon-ish to you on your own talk page. I don't delete stuff, even flames or spam, I just archive.

Ah, yes
As a dedicated Meditator, I will meditate on your request. Andre ( talk ) 02:54, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee case opening
The Arbitration Committee has accepted the case against Iasson. Please bring evidence to Requests for arbitration/Iasson/Evidence. Thank you. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 04:06, 2005 Mar 20 (UTC)

The ...fool Family
I just learned about you and feel badly about leaving you out of this family outing. ;-) hydnjo talk 00:37, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Oops - I was only making joke (I thought). Let me explain. Onefool's account was started by Thewayforward on a whim which he thought would be an extention of his own wordplay (wonderful/wonderfool) username. When I noticed Onefool's account I posted the section noted above to include a fair number of other potential usernames using the same wordplay that is, taking a common word ending with ful and substituting fool. Thus User:Beautiful would become User:Beautifool. Anyway when I came across your name, Humblefool, I was reminded of that whimsical but fictitious User:Onefool and thought that you might get a chuckle out of it so I posted the above. I'm sorry if you were disrurbed as I intended no harm.
 * Good luck with your arbitration case with User:Iasson. And,by the way, what does "Shwa" mean? hydnjo talk 18:12, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Doubletake
Saw your name and did a doubletake. Do The Humble Guys ring a bell with you? · Katefan0(scribble) 02:59, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC) That's a shame! I knew all those guys way back when, including Humblefool (before the Internet really -- the age of local bulletin boards). Cheers anyway! · Katefan0(scribble) 03:13, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Islamofascism
You might this VfD for this article interesting.

Klonimus 00:47, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Guardian Angels
I have made deletions to what I consider libelous, unfounded accusations about the Guardian Angels. You should be asking the contributors of the original material to provide you with sources and evidence to substantiate their accusations. As far as I'm concerned, the burden of proof should be with the person throwing around stupid claims versus someone who deletes them. I am a Guardian Angels in Reno, Nevada, and you can call me and verify this by going to www.guardianangels.org or just call any Guardian Angel on that list.

Slamming
I'd really like to know what you would do if some idiot edited your page with something like "This fool is some neo-Nazi Yakuza clan member who loves Bush and Cheney." Then you delete it, and some guy comes along and puts it back and tells you to prove that you're not some neo-Nazi Yakuza. Wikipedia is becoming a joke.

Re: substubs
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you; I only check my messages now once every few months. I truly appreciate your support. Substubs are now a dead issue to me... I guess I just couldn't take the stress. I intend to try to ease back into Wikipedia and hope that people will eventually forget about the whole substub thing, so that I can start over. Again, thank you - it's nice to have someone who still talks to me. Mike ∞ Storm 00:47, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

RfD entries
Please don't delete RfD entries. Old entries are often there because I'm waiting to see if we get comments on them, I'm leaving them there to educate people (e.g. the CamelCase entry, the Country/Subpage entry), etc. (I'm the admin who does the deletes for RfD.) Noel (talk) 01:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't say I "run" it, I just happen to be the admin who does almost all the work there. Maybe that's a purely semantic difference, I guess... Noel (talk) 17:29, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

rfd -> speedy
I changed the rfds to speedys. If I have used rfc for this it has been a mistake. The two redirects not listed on the page are Paratragouda and Hrisso koufeto. I marked them speedy too. Is there something else? I'm unsure, if I fully understood your message. --Easyas12c 10:27, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

 * For the Edea article (and others too) I'd rather remove the redirects than the links. --Easyas12c 10:32, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Rapid Deployment Force(s)
The Rapid Deployment Force(singular) is a duplicate and can be deleted; the Rapid Deployment Forces(plural) is the correct title and I wish to maintain. After deletion, the singular title can be moved to the correct title as I understand. Thank you. Nobs 15:24, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support
Thank you for voting on my RFA. Have some pie! I was pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of supporters (including several people that usually disagree with my opinion). I shall do my best with the proverbial mop. Yours, Radiant_ >|< 08:17, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Gunbound
Yeah i just made those fixes to fix big grammar and POV edits made by an anon user. secfan 05:11, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

just so you know
the image link Image:Imageboards.png is present, yet the image itself doens't exist, perhaps it had a different extenstion? Just so you know. -- WB 01:47, Jun 27, 2005 (UTC)

4chan
There's a difference between capable of handling and willing to handle it. On the other hand, I've grown pretty much apathetic to Wikipedia once I saw this junk (Every article in that category is fit for a VfD) or some of this commonly accepted fancruft. (Note that everything on that page is linked to! What kind of idocy is that?) So if those examples are accepted, I'll just unwatch the 4chan page and let people have a go at it, not my concern anymore. ^_^ :: DarkLordSeth 3 July 2005 09:12 (UTC)

Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/3
PBurka pointed out that an important omission from this proposal: a band could meet WP:MUSIC criterion #5 (sharing a member with a famous band) and still be speedily deletable by this criterion. I've added a sentence to the proposal to reflect this: it now reads ''An article about a musician or music group that does not assert having released at least one album, nor having had media coverage, nor having a member that is or was also part of a well-known music group. If the assertion is disputed or controversial, it should be taken to VFD instead.'' Please consider if you support this new wording, and change your vote if not. Yours, Radiant_ >|< July 5, 2005 09:54 (UTC)

CSD Proposal 3-B
You voted or commented on Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/3-B or  Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/3-A or both. I have proposed a revised version, at Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/3-C. This version is intended to address objections made by many of those oppsoed to 3-A or 3-B. The revised propsal refers explicitly and directly to the criteria at WP:MUSIC. If you have not already done so, please examine the revised proposal and vote on it also. Thank you. DES 6 July 2005 05:18 (UTC)

verses
Hiya,

you recently voted to merge per Uncle G at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Matthew 1:verses

however, that VfD concerned only the verses from Matthew 1, wheras Uncle G's proposal covered a much larger group of verses.

would you be prepared to make a similar vote at Votes for deletion/Individual Bible verses, which covers the full list of verses in Uncle G's suggestion?

9 July 2005 15:13 (UTC)

signature
Don't forget to remove the CSD vote tag from your signature.—Wahoofive (talk) 23:26, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

The bible
Firstly let me say that I am sorry to have to bother you.

Secondly, I wish to let you know that a recent VFD that you took part in has closed. The result was that 32 people voted to keep all individual bible verses as seperate articles, and 34 voted that they shouldn't (2 abstensions, and 3 votes for both). This is considered by standard policy not to be a consensus decision (although the closing admin stated that it was a consensus to keep them).

Thirdly, the subject has now been put to a survey, so that it may remain open until there is a clear consensus for what appears to be a difficult issue to resolve. You may wish to take part in this survey, and record a similar vote to the one you made at the VFD there. The survey is available at Bible verses.

18:39, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I suggest merger of the two pages "Auschwitz trial' and "Auschwitz trials"
When I checked the Auschwitz page ealier I couldn't find the link to the Poland or the other trials, maybe my fault.

However, although the "Auschwitz trial" page carries more detailed info on the Poland trial, it's silent on the other trials, although these were quite important.

Also, I would like to object to the almost "delete-by-redirection" - this is not the way Wikipedia should work. Please, check the content first, then redirect ! ;-)

best, Andreas D.C.

PS.: By logic, the merged page should be "Auschwitz trials", since there were more then one. i suggest ut and paste of the Poland part of "trial" to "trials", o.k.?

Answer @ Humblefool: Dear Humblefool, you're correct, and the info on the existing pages is much more detailed then on the one which I began. Well. the main prolem, then, is / was only one of links that one could find without searching too hard. I will redirect my energies to this task. Thanks for the help ! Andreas D.C. PS.: I haven't quite figured out how to discuss / respond but I will learn ... :-)

Andreas D.C. 21:42, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

what seems to be missing, though, on the "Auschwitz trial(s)" sites are the trials in East Germany and in Frankfurt in 1977, or have I (again) missed something? Andreas

Sir, i changed my " nincompoop" entry. Is it more to your liking this way?

Faithfully yours,

Robert Prummel The Netherlands

Dear Humblefool,

Thanks for your help, and patience, with my entry on the Nincompoop. I have registered once again. It is the fifth time... It seems that the Wikipedia computer keeps forgetting me! Strange, because i never changed my computer. Did you see my article on the Earl of Clare? I did a few more articles in this vein.

Robert

Humblefoot,

What about Axel Enstr m running "a small belgian company". His son lived and died there. Let me hear more about it!

Sebastian

Modern-era
When you make redirects, always check the target; in this case, you redirected to a redirect (as the mis-capitalisation of Modern Era suggested). I've corrected it (to Modern world, which is the target of "Modern Era"). --Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 10:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Being quoted is very nice :)
Hello Humblefool, in a momentary lapse of modesty, I googled myself, and your user page came up second! Delighted to see you enjoyed my useless bit of nonsense exchanged with Alphax :-) And in a further instance of vanity, I've just added my user page link to the quote - I hope you don't mind. Cormaggio 12:07, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

User:Humblefoolrv
''Thanks for rvting my userpage a few days ago. You were so fast I didn't even notice until now! humblefool® 02:25, 29 July 2005 (UTC)''

My pleasure, glad to be of help. RickK did the same for me awhile back, I didn't have my userpage on my watchlist, didn't see a reason too at the time. :) Salut. ∞ Who ? ¿ ?  02:46, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Signature
I've heard about disputes over templates in signatures before. I decided to do the template because without it, all of the font tags and color codes took up several lines, which defeat the purpose of having a signature. --User:Merovingian (t) (c) 15:48, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Closing WP:CP
There is no formalaised way to close copyright problems, here are a few pointers if you're interested. We could do with a few more admins helping out. Some copyvios are easier to deal with than others if you are going to help out it's fine if you just delete the easy ones and leave the more complicated ones for someone else.

No copyvio in the original version
If the copyvio was added after the page was created just revert to the last clean version.

Original version is a copyvio
If the template is still in place check that the listed site is not a Wikipedia mirror and delete, delete the talk page too if there is one, often people will also list the site the text has been stolen from on the talk page.
 * 1) If there is a temp page, move it back to the original name.
 * 2) If there are comments on the talk page that claim that that the person who has added the page was the original author I revert the page and with an edit summary like author owns copyright, see talk, often I also send these pages to vfd since they are usually things like resumes and adverts for a product, non-notable band etc.
 * 3) If there are comments on the talk page that assert that the person who added the article to Wikipedia has permission, that permission needs to be compatible with the GFDL or the page is deleted
 * 4) If someone has removed the copyvio template, check the text before and after the template was added. Delete if they are the same. If a significant amount of replacement text has been written copy it, delete the page, and then recreate the page. This is very annoying- people should follow instructions :/

Images
Images are tricky and you'll want to get familiar with fair use rules. Basically anything that could be recreated by someone on Wikipedia is a copyvio, like maps, pictures of existing buildings and so on.
 * 1) If the image is a copyvio, remove any links to it from articles and delete.
 * 2) If there are people claiming fair use and you don't feel comfortable to decide one way or the other, move it up to to fair use claims needing a second opinion section.

I think thats everything, drop me a line if you need some more advice.--nixie 07:16, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations
You're an admin! Have fun, and check out my advice to new admins. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 16:58, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, you fool! :) --Sn0wflake 17:54, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Congratulations Wonder Humblefool! Yeah, the support was pretty good (except for the sockpuppet accusation: maybe that fella thought you were related to Wonderfool?), so you've got the confidence of a lot of people, including me. Wield that mop and bucket with pride! --Deathphoenix 19:47, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You're going to do great, HF~ Fernando Rizo T/C 19:48, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, and congrats! You've got my full confidence. - ulayiti (talk)  20:19, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, and you're very welcome! And thanks, I sure will remember the deletion reform page!  --Merovingian (t) (c) 23:41, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Congrats from me too, and no problem with the support. Grutness...  wha?  00:54, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You'll do fine. And the drink was quite refreshing, thanks. --khaosworks 02:28, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

re:Jesus
thanks. Jtkiefer T - 21:18, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Templates to close VfDs
Hi there. Glad to see you wielding the mop+shotgun already. When closing VfDs, it is best to use subst: since those templates in that quantity cause a significant server load. In fact, there is a shortcut: you can just use:
 *   for Vfd top; and
 *   for Vfd bottom.

Saves keystrokes and server resources!! Have fun. (Oh, and the 1E-43s, result: the voting was to merge all the articles in the cat to a single article: but that's a bit much to come from a single VfD, really). -Splash 01:28, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Talk pages: one deletes those too, or they continue to exist but are orphaned (and could be reached by typing 'Talk:Article' in the search box, I believe). -Splash 01:38, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

VFD closing
Sorry, I usually use subst: I'll be more vigilant =) Sasquatch′↔T↔C 03:34, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

VFD ABDL
OrbitOne here. I would like to ask, if the rules for VfD say majority rules in the votes, why did the minority vote for a redirect win?

84.30.80.16
I have seen that you have deleted an article stub I made. I don t think that you where right but it s your choice. I already explained to Jasonglchu who proposed to delete it that if I only make stub  it s because I am not fluent in English. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jasonglchu

Otherwise I need some help: I made an article stub for the guitarist Ali ©ksey Vianna but I first forgot the accent on the e . I made after a new article with the good spelling. The result is that there are now 2 pages about him... How could I definitely cancel the wrong one?

Good page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali%C3%A9ksey_Vianna

Wrong page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alieksey_Vianna

Please have a look on the contributions I made the last three days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/84.30.80.16

Votes for deletion/WikiProject Literature
You closed the debate as delete yet redirected it. Steve block talk 20:43, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to argue the point. I think it runs counter to the spirit of the process however. Steve block  talk 22:29, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Links to VfDs on talk page
Hi there. Don't forget to provide a link to the VfD debates on talk pages of kept/etc pages. It helps to avoid rapid renominations. There's a slightly unpleasant looking template you can use for this, there's a link to it on Deletion process, or you can just use some stock text of your own. -Splash 21:44, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

"Reprimand Ed"
Ed didn't create that article, but no matter. In case you're interested, there's now a case on RFAr against him. Rob Church 03:58, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Humblefool/Archive 2


text:
List of longest placenames in Ireland

This is a list of the longest place names in Ireland. It includes names written in English as a single word of at least 20 letters. The vast majority of English-language place names in Ireland are anglicisations of Irish language names. The spelling which has legal force is usually that used by the Ordnance Survey of Ireland. Many of Ireland's longest place names are found in the far west of the island, where the Irish language has survived the longest; including Gaeltacht areas, where it is still the vernacular. These names are generally written as multiple words in Irish.

At 22 letters long, Muckanaghederdauhaulia (from Muiceanach idir Dhá Sháile meaning "pig-marsh between two saltwaters") is often believed to be Ireland's longest one-word place name. In Life: A User's Manual by Georges Perec, it is one of the ports visited and painted by the character Bartlebooth, who believes it to be the longest port name in the world. An 1830s boundary survey uses the spelling Mwickanaghedderauhaulia, which is 23 letters long.

However, the Placenames Database of Ireland (logainm.ie) records several other place names of at least 22 letters. Furthermore, the anglicised form Muckanaghederdauhaulia ceased to have official standing in 2005, after a Placenames Order was made under the Official Languages Act 2003; the sole official name is now the Irish form Muiceanach idir Dhá Sháile.

Multiple-word place names may be longer still. For example, "Plughoge and Leabrannagh Mountain North", the name of a townland in County Donegal, has 35 letters, and its Irish equivalent "Sliabh Phlochóige agus Leadhb Reannach Thuaidh" has 41; while "Stack's to Mullaghareirk Mountains, West Limerick Hills and Mount Eagle Special Protection Area 004161" has 81 letters and 6 digits.

List
The spellings and locations given in the table are those on the Ordnance Survey's current and historic maps. Three of the top names are at the ruins on Inishmore of the church dedicated of the Four Comely Saints (an Ceathrar Álainn).

Notes:

Variant, historical, and spurious spellings
John O'Donovan recommended "Illaunloughmorenavreaghoge" (26 letters) as the name of an island in "Loughnavreeghougue" in Clynagh townland, Killannin parish, Moycullen barony, County Galway. He noted "Illaunloughmorenavreeghougue" (28 letters) as the local spelling. However, the Ordnance Survey went with "Lough Morenavreaghoge" for the lake, and left the island unnamed, while the Irish Placenames Database gives the name "Illaunmore" for an island in Clynagh.

Two lakes called "Loughs Nahaskanabaunia" on the Ordnance Survey map correspond to the entry "Loughsnahaskanabaunia" (21 letters) in the Placenames Database. The townland of Brackagh Slieve Gallion in County Londonderry has sometimes been written as one 21-letter word, Brackaghslievegallion, or similar. Similarly, Lisbellanagroagh More in County Antrim has been written Lisbellanagroaghmore (20 letters).

An 1829 calendar of Stuart patent rolls in the Irish Chancery includes Knockatoodreknocknynuyshaneboye (31 letters) and Aghannyquillaknockacarnoc (25 letters) from 1611 as subdenominations within "Gortnemureknock" (now Gortinure and Knocks ) County Fermanagh; Grangeballaghmarramacquoid (26 letters) in Armagh in 1616; and Ballylirstrillyvickenratty (26 letters) for Tullymacarath, County Down in 1609. The spelling Ballemickegillemorreyietragh (28 letters; later "Ballymackilmurry etra" in the townland of Ballymackilmurry) is recorded in a 1609 inquisition into the churchlands of County Armagh made in preparation for the Plantation of Ulster. Salters Grange, County Armagh is called Grangeballaghmarramacquoid (26 letters) in inquisitions of 1557 and 1614. The 1654 Civil Survey of County Tipperary records Glayshlackeenetanballyuore (26 letters) as the name of a "small brooke" forming part of the boundary of Oughterleague parish by the townland of Demone; Aghknockanecurryheeneliegh (26 letters) a ford on the boundary of Moyne parish in Tipperary; and Barrecoroughbollinbraykon (25 letters) a "littel stream" on the border of Gorey barony. A place named Caherhewlissingaberrighe (24 letters) in Galway or Roscommon is mentioned in a 1578 fiant. An 1825 index of placenames in the decrees of innocence registered under the Act of Settlement 1662 includes Gortecoleighshraghmicknuckgenny (31 letters), Ballynygorenagheyannyneaghe (27 letters) and	Laghirtydonellanknockane (24 letters).

The Placenames Database of Ireland includes an entry for "Lougheroaghballaghdown" (22 letters), apparently a misspelt duplicate of "Lough Croaghballaghdown". An 1824 return of townlands in Mayo includes one of 48 acres in the parish of "Torlogh" (now Turlough), barony of Carra, named "Knockballymackellygirrenane [27 letters] Tully". This is a mistranscription of "Knockballymackelly, Grenane, and Tully[quirke]", now the townland of Greenans.

title: List of longest placenames in Ireland


text:
McLintock!

 * See also McClintock (disambiguation)

McLintock! is a 1963 American Western comedy film, starring John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara, directed by Andrew V. McLaglen. The film co-stars Wayne's son Patrick Wayne, Stefanie Powers, Jack Kruschen, Chill Wills, and Yvonne De Carlo (billed as special guest star). Loosely based on William Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew, the project was filmed in Technicolor and Panavision, and produced by Wayne's company, Batjac Productions.

In 1991, the film entered the public domain in the United States because the claimants did not renew its copyright registration in the 28th year after publication.

Plot
Cattle baron and town namesake George Washington "G.W." McLintock lives as a bachelor on his ranch. His wife, "Kate," abandoned him with no explanation and became a socialite back East two years prior; his daughter, "Becky," is away finishing her college degree. In the town, G.W. is disliked by bureaucrat Matt Douglas and Governor Cuthbert H. Humphrey. However, he is a friend to many, including Sheriff Lord, general store owner Jake Birnbaum, and the local beggars and Comanche Indians.

G.W. warns some homesteaders that the land is unsuitable for farming because it is over 6000 feet above sea level. An earlier group of homesteaders tried and failed because of insufficient rain for growing crops. Devlin "Dev" Warren, a young man with a mother and sister to support, asks G.W. for a job. G.W. initially refuses; egged on by aged drifter Bunny, Dev resorts to begging, then lashes out in frustration when G.W. relents. However, G.W. still hires him. He also hires Dev's widowed mother Mrs. Warren, after tasting her cooking. G.W. then learns Kate is in town. She wants a divorce, so she can take Becky back East with her. G.W. refuses. Kate then decides to move back onto the ranch, and starts bossing everyone around, including Mrs. Warren.

The Comanche come into town to meet a train, and Sheriff Lord settles them near the homesteaders. When a homesteader's daughter wanders off with her suitor, Douglas and the homesteaders assume the Comanche took her and attempt to lynch Running Buffalo in retaliation. G.W. and his men try to defuse the situation, but a brawl ensues, with Kate joining in on G.W.'s side.

Later, Becky arrives home from college with a would-be suitor, Douglas' son "Junior." G.W. disapproves of Junior, so Kate makes a show of approving. Also aboard Becky's train are four Comanche chiefs, who have arrived for a hearing to determine if their people will be sent to a reservation in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. G.W. agrees to speak there on their behalf.

While getting ready for Becky's welcome-home party, Dev and Becky get into an argument when he accuses Junior of being a "Dude." At the party, Dev gets into a fistfight to protect Birnbaum's assistant Davy, and impresses everyone with his boxing skills. Later, after being deliberately taunted by Becky and Junior, Dev accuses Becky of being a trollop for kissing Junior before they were properly engaged. Becky demands G.W. shoot Dev for insulting her. G.W. "shoots" him with a starter's pistol to teach Becky a lesson, and allows Dev to spank Becky with a coal shovel, angering Kate.

At the hearing, G.W. delivers a plea from his old enemy and blood brother Paramount Chief Puma of the Comanche to Governor Humphrey, but is ignored. The Comanche are ordered to be imprisoned until they can be sent to Fort Sill. Getting drunk that night, G.W. suggests to Bunny that, if the Comanche were to go out fighting as they requested, the Government might realize Humphrey's mismanagement of the territory and intervene. G.W. returns home and pressures Mrs. Warren into drinking with him; both of them fall down the stairs, and Kate assumes the worst when she sees Mrs. Warren on G.W.'s lap, until Mrs. Warren explains she is quitting because Sheriff Lord has asked her to marry him and she has accepted.

At the Fourth of July celebrations the next day, Kate refuses Humphrey's advances, but continues to treat her husband harshly. Bunny, who took G.W. seriously, helps set the Comanches free. They arm themselves with rifles from a military boxcar and charge through town on their way to fight the Army, the cavalry in hot pursuit. While hiding in a haystack, Dev and Becky reconcile, and become engaged. Encouraged by this, and on advice from Birnbaum, G.W. confronts Kate, getting her to admit that she left because she found lipstick on his shirt and incorrectly assumed he was having an affair. After pursuing her like Nemesis through town and publicly spanking her, G.W. tells Kate that now she is free to divorce him, and leaves for home. However, she follows him, and the two reconcile.

Cast

 * John Wayne as George Washington "G.W." McLintock
 * Maureen O'Hara as Katherine "Kate" McLintock
 * Patrick Wayne as Devlin "Dev" Warren
 * Stefanie Powers as Rebecca "Becky" McLintock
 * Jack Kruschen as Jake Birnbaum
 * Chill Wills as Drago
 * Yvonne De Carlo as Louise Warren
 * Jerry Van Dyke as Matt Douglas Jr.
 * Edgar Buchanan as Bunny Dull
 * Perry Lopez as Davey Elk
 * Strother Martin as Agard
 * Gordon Jones as Matt Douglas
 * Robert Lowery as Gov. Cuthbert H. Humphrey
 * Hank Worden as Curly Fletcher
 * Michael Pate as Puma, Chief of the Comanche Nation
 * Bruce Cabot as Ben Sage, Sr.
 * Edward Faulkner as Ben Sage, Jr.
 * Mari Blanchard as Camille
 * Leo Gordon as Jones
 * Chuck Roberson as Sheriff Jeff Lord
 * Bob Steele as Train Engineer
 * Aissa Wayne as Alice Warren
 * "Big" John Hamilton as Fauntleroy Sage
 * H.W. Gim as Ching
 * John Stanley (uncredited) as Running Buffalo

Production
The script was developed by John Wayne as a way for him to express his disapproval for how Westerns negatively represent Native Americans, his opinions on marital abuse, and discontent for political corruption from either party, intentionally contrasting previous films in which Wayne starred but had little creative-control, such as John Ford's The Searchers. Another sharp contrast from previous films of Wayne is the emphasis on comedy, and using the Western setting for slapstick possibilities. He offered the job of directing to Andrew McLaglen, son to Wayne's longtime co-star Victor McLaglen, who had directed a number of low-budget features and had worked widely in television. It was the first movie fully produced by Wayne's son, Michael, although Michael Wayne had worked on a number of other films in various capacities. The male juvenile lead was John Wayne's younger son, Patrick.

Henry Hathaway said he was going to direct the film but Wayne was not willing to pay his fee.

The film was shot at Old Tucson Studios, west of Tucson, Arizona, and at San Rafael Ranch House - San Rafael State Natural Area, south of Patagonia, Arizona, and Nogales. Although the name of the territory is never mentioned, and the Mesa Verde region where the film is set is located predominantly in Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah, in the court scene, the flag of Arizona is seen alongside the U.S. flag, although the flag of Arizona was not created until 1917.

Many of the cast and crew, including Andrew McLaglen, William H. Clothier, Bruce Cabot, Chill Wills, Edward Faulkner, Hank Worden, Strother Martin, Michael Pate, Leo Gordon, Chuck Roberson, John Stanley (the Navajo actor and veteran member of John Ford's stock company, who plays "Running Buffalo"), Patrick and Aissa Wayne, as well as Maureen O'Hara, had worked with Wayne on other productions. Wayne insisted a supporting role be given to Yvonne De Carlo, whose husband had been injured making How the West Was Won. Michael Wayne estimated the budget as being $3.5 to $4.0 million.

As in many other John Wayne films, Wayne is wearing his favorite "Red River D" belt buckle. It can be best seen in the scene where G.W. addresses the homesteaders about 10 minutes into the film, and at the end of the scene where the Comanche ride through town on the way to "the last fight of the Comanche," around 10 minutes from the end of the movie.

In the DVD Special Feature "Maureen O'Hara and Stefanie Powers Remember McLintock!," O'Hara reported that when Wayne and she filmed the famous scene in which he spanked her with a coal scuttle shovel, he did not pull his strokes. "He really spanked me! My bottom was black and blue for weeks!"

Music

 * "Love in the Country" sung by The Limeliters
 * Music coordinator: "By" Dunham
 * "Love in the Country" words and music by "By" Dunham and Frank DeVol
 * "Just Right for Me", "Cakewalk", "When We Dance" words and music by "By" Dunham

Reception
The film was a box-office success, and a timely one, since The Alamo had cost Wayne in both financial and "box-office capital" terms. McLintock! grossed $14,500,000 in North America, earning $7.25 million in US theatrical rentals.

Andrew McLaglen said the film "put me in the big time." He made four more films with Wayne: Hellfighters (1968), The Undefeated (1969), Chisum (1970), and Cahill, U.S. Marshal (1973).

According to Bosley Crowther, "the broadly comic Western ... sounded like a promising idea"; "the scenery is opulent and the action out-of-doors, the color lush, and the cast made up almost entirely of recruits from John Ford's long cinematic cycle commemorating the tradition of the American frontier." Since "the direction was entrusted to a relative newcomer, Victor McLaglen's television-trained son, Andrew V. McLaglen ... good intentions, when the task at hand is as difficult as lusty farce, are not enough." Emanuel Levy, in a review years after the film's release, said the film is "significant because it marks the beginning of Wayne's attempt to impose his general views, not just political ones, on his pictures. Most of Wayne's screen work after McLintock! would express his opinions about education, family, economics, and even friendship."

Novelization
Richard Wormser wrote a novelization of the screenplay.

Public domain status
The film was produced by John Wayne's Batjac Productions and released through United Artists. Batjac failed to renew the copyright, which expired in 1991. In 1994, a legal case determined the film was in the public domain in the United States, but the music score remained under copyright.

Batjac Productions, a company now owned by John Wayne's estate, retains distribution rights for "officially restored" versions of the film and holds the original film negatives, as well as rights to the film's musical score.

Home media
Despite being available in the public domain by various distributors for the past decade (including GoodTimes Home Video and Simitar Entertainment), the first official home video issue of the film was released in the mid-1990s by MPI Home Video. In 2005, Paramount Home Media Distribution struck a distribution deal with Batjac (which owns the original film negatives) and was granted exclusive distribution rights for an official remastered release debuting on DVD in 2005. This "official" DVD release uses a restoration made from the original camera negative, under license from Batjac, with a newly created 5.1 surround mix and the original monoaural. Bonus features include a new extensive documentary, a "2 Minute Fight School" featurette, photo and trailer galleries, and an audio commentary with Leonard Maltin, Frank Thompson, Maureen O’Hara, Stefanie Powers, Michael Pate, Michael Wayne, and Andrew McLaglen. In spite of this licensed release, numerous versions of the film are still being released by other companies, with most using old TV prints and film elements outside of Batjac's official restoration.

Olive Films released a bare-bones Blu-Ray in March 2013, using a 2012 2K scan of a 35-mm Technicolor element with the original monoaural track. Olive's release had no involvement from Batjac Productions, as the 2K restoration was provided by the Library of Congress and is classified as public domain, whereas the "official" restoration is copyrighted to Batjac with Paramount handling exclusive distribution.

Paramount followed up in May 2014 with their Blu-Ray release, under license from Batjac Productions. This release uses a brand new 4K remaster from the original camera negative with Dolby TrueHD 5.1 surround and original mono. It also carries over all the bonus features from the previous Paramount DVD, with the only new addition of the original theatrical trailer scanned in 2K from a 35-mm element.

Comic-book adaption

 * Gold Key: McLintock! (March 1964)

title: McLintock!


text:
USS Natchez (1827)

USS Natchez was a sloop-of-war in the United States Navy built at the Norfolk Naval Shipyard, Portsmouth, Virginia in 1827. Commanded by Commander George Budd, she departed Hampton Roads on 26 July 1827 for the Caribbean. She patrolled with the West Indies Squadron as a deterrent against a resurgence of piracy until forced to sail north by an outbreak of yellow fever among the crew, returning to New York City on 24 November 1828.

The sloop, Commander William B. Shubrick in command, got underway for the Caribbean on 9 July 1829 and operated in the West Indies and along the Atlantic Coast until she decommissioned at Norfolk, Virginia on 24 August 1831 and was placed in ordinary. Reactivated during the South Carolina nullification crisis, Natchez was recommissioned on 28 December and sailed for Charleston on 2 January 1833, anchoring in Rebellion Roads on the 19th. She moved up to Charleston Battery on 12 March and remained in that important Southern port until tensions were eased when the United States Congress lowered the tariff. She sailed for Hampton Roads on 4 April and, upon arriving Norfolk, was again placed in ordinary.

Natchez returned to the West Indies in 1836 and operated there into 1838. She again cruised in the Caribbean in 1839. She was scrapped at the New York Navy Yard in 1840.

title: USS Natchez (1827)


text: User talk:134.117.59.127

title: User talk:134.117.59.127


text: File:Crime Spree movie.jpg

title: File:Crime Spree movie.jpg


text:
Talk:Broken (1993 film)

Move
I have moved this from its original place at Broken - The Movie to here because of Wikipedia naming conventions. Any objections can be raised at my talk page. Thanks, [[User:Consequencefree| Ardent † ∈ ]] 01:56, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The Broken movie was never investigated by the FBI, that was Down In It. Whether or not that was the impetus for this, or the reason why it sits in a can is simply speculation. Also, this article should really include something about the best version of this in circulation to be a 3rd or 4th generation copy at best. The thing looks like crap, which only helps add to the whole snuff feel. --Outofkeyslightly 10:50, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

The article needs more sources, particular regard the "dropouts" which is frequently mentioned on the internet without references

==

There was a copy with no dropouts and the Help Me I am in Hell video in full circulating. I had a copy in 1994 but it was stolen a few years later. --Maytag (talk) 13:32, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Images
Revolutionary here, I was just wondering if it's a good idea to put screenshots from all videos? Even if they are particularly disturbing?

Trivia section removal
The sole piece of trivia, "The movie was filmed in black-and-white, except for the "Gave Up" video (which was in color)," mistakenly protrays the "Gave Up" video from Closure as being part of the Broken movie. This was incorrect and in contradiction with the rest of the article. Since there was no factually-accurate trivia, I deleted the entire section. -- Rynne 16:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

This might have been worded poorly, but it might deserve a mention because it's been noted that the Broken Movie version of Gave Up is in black and white, while the snuff parts included in the video are in color. The observation being that all the black and white scenes pertaining to the snuff were 'current', with the investigation and the execution, while the color scenes were the 'past' record of the crime. Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.46.110.216 (talk) 21:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

YouTube links
This article is one of [ thousands] on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message on the talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material violating someone's copyright. If you are not sure whether the link on this article should be removed or if you would like to help spread this message, contact us on User talk:J.smith/YouTube Linklist. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 00:57, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Robert Patrick
Give me any non-imdb source that Robert Patrick is the cop? I've seen many arguments that it's actually Richard, and no proof anywhere that it's Robert, apart from speculation because he's dressed as a cop before. Year 0 22:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd like to see a better source for this, too. I've never seen any primary-source document which identifies who plays the cop. - rynne 16:43, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

That's not Robert Patrick as the cop. I showed the movie to a friend who is a huge Robert Patrick fan and she said "No way" when I showed her (and she was hoping it was him.) She said (and I agree) the facial features are too different, especially the nose. So this is just a rumour, not fact, and should be removed from the article or reworded so it is not taken as fact. If no-one does, eventually I will.

 * There's no cast listing in general, so I doubt anyone else than the authors knows the personnel. // Gargaj 21:39, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The cop definitely looks like Richard Patrick to me. Given that he was in NIN at the time, and was shown in the videos for Wish and the Closure version of Gave Up, I'd say that's enough to warrant at least a mention about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.46.110.216 (talk) 20:58, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Synopsis update?
Now considering that the film doesn't start with the car scene but the execution, I think the summary needs a refresh. // Gargaj 20:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Fine, go ahead and do it. Be bold! Tabanger  22:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

 * My point was that I'm technically not really qualified to do so since I can't really recall all details. But ok, I'll try to watch it again eventually. // Gargaj 10:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Copyright status?
I wonder what's the current copyright status of the film... it is obviously copyrighted because it even includes a notice, but it "officially" doesn't exist and there have been no claims for it and the distribution is, well, "encouraged". So i wonder if it's legal to spread it. // Gargaj 09:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no ambiguity about it. Copyright law is clear.  Creative works, regardless of notice, are protected by copyright law until they are released into or lapse (120 years from creation (since there has been no publication) for work for hire) into the public domain.  When copyright is in effect, NO ONE except the copyright holder has the right to grant permission to make copies of or redistribute the work.  As far as I am aware, no permission has been granted to anyone by the copyright holder, Interscope Records, for distributing copies, so under the strict letter of the law, it would be illegal to do so.  The practical realities of the situation are another story.    Tabanger   19:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * ...and that's exactly what I meant. The copyright notice at the end of the movie kindof made me wonder to be honest; Interscope Records must be aware of the existence of the movie as it was likely to be produced as some sort of promotion, but question is, had they need to step up to protect their own copyrights about it, how would they do that? I mean basically it's something that looks like an "amateur snuff movie" that doesn't even officially exist. Sure, they would have the MEANS to do it, but I'd be really curious on how they would handle the publicity around it. // Gargaj 19:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Brokenmovie.jpg
Image:Brokenmovie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Character Gender
This entire article is laced with "him/her" and "his/her" statements regarding the character being tortured throughout the film, and it looks terrible. I myself have seen the best quality version available on the internet (which may have been, as implied, released by Reznor himself), and it's fairly high quality. The main character in the film is most certainly male, and if it's desired, I can show screenshots to back this up. Ther shouldn't be any dispute whatsoever as to the character's gender. In "Gave Up," when the character is stripped down to his underwear, you can see that he's wearing briefs, most commonly worn by men (not a great point, but it's there). Also, the character has no breasts, and when he's completely stripped naked, his penis is clearly revealed, and very soonafter, chopped off. I'm pretty sure that when a penis is clearly shown attached to a person on film, we can assume that the character is male. I think that all of the androgynous pronouns should be removed and replaced with exclusively male pronouns, as it's correct (and certainly looks better). 76.84.89.30 (talk) 04:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I've seen the same version and agree, so I've removed the ambiguity. --jh51681 (talk) 11:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree that the character is a man. It occured to me, however, that this role may be played by a woman. Thinking about it, casting a somewhat mannish-looking woman in this part has a key practical advantage: in the penis-severing scene, it saves you the trouble of figuring out a way to hide the actor's real penis. With a woman actor, you just build prosthetic genitalia to be cut off and attach them to her crotch; no need to worry about a telltale bulge (wherever they are tucking the actor's junk) making the effects look unrealistic. Nowadays they could use CGI, of course, but I suspect that was out of these filmmmakers' reach in 1992. Just a thought.

 * Your friend, Augustus Chip (talk) 19:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Torture porn?
Has Reznor ever talked about why he created a "torture porn" film? Or is it just like the "Happiness in Slavery" video—"just because he did." :) RobertM525 (talk) 09:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

 * In one interview, he said about Happiness, "These were the most appropriate visuals for the song." –Pomte 09:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:HappinessSlaveryVideo.JPG
Image:HappinessSlaveryVideo.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Plot Summary
The plot section is way to long and overly detailed for a 20 minutes short film. Wikipedia is not here to describe movies shot for shot. 70.119.247.185 (talk) 15:23, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Broken (1993 film)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New realism

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. -- AllyUnion (talk) 13:26, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

New realism
Was marked as speedy but isn't a candidate. Reason given for deletion (by User:Sponge) was "Absolutely no google hits pertaining to it, and looks to be self promotion. Non Notable." — Gwalla | Talk 01:57, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a major movement involving one of the two or three most famous living artists in the world and several other prominent ones. Google "New realism Christo" Philip 04:08, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Bogus VFD.--Centauri 05:23, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not a bogus VfD. When I see an article marked for speedy that doesn't seem to be a candidate, but I don't know whether it's notable or not, I put it on VfD so the folks here can establish things. Would you rather I'd just speedied it?   — Gwalla | Talk 06:08, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I 'd rather you checked for actual notability before pre-emptorily listing on VFD, which according to current policy is intended as a last resort, not a first line of attack. Listing obviously notable subjects for deletion wastes time and energy that can be better spent elsewhere. --Centauri 07:18, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article itself did not establish notability. Establishing notability for an article that doesn't seem so is part of what VfD is for—if it wasn't, then everything would be handled by the speedy process. I rescued it from speedy, and you should note that I haven't actually voted in this VfD at all—the nomination was a simple statement of the facts. I'm happy to see keep votes from people who know more about the subject, but I don't appreciate baseless accusations of bad faith.   — Gwalla | Talk 23:53, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The 'first line of attack' was CSD, which Gwalla correctly rejected. The article itself is decidedly stubby, and I can see where the question of notability would arise for a nonexpert.  I'm pleased to see that Gwalla is willing to seek community consensus through VfD rather than arbitrarily decide that something is 'obviously' notable or (worse) not.  Plus, having it on VfD for a few days cuts down on the likelihood that someone else will speedy it inappropriately. That said, a bit more time with Google is always a good thing. Keep. --TenOfAllTrades 02:35, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Stubs are not justifiable deletion targets, and major art movements comprised of wildly famous artists don't require the approval of the community to establish their notability. A simple Google search (as per below) would have established that the speedy delete request was bogus, and the bogus notice could have been removed, end of story. Instead we have an extended song-and-dance routine that will take 100 times as much effort to arrive at the same outcome - ie the article is kept.--Centauri 02:44, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep. I don't know what happened to Google between now and then, but "New Realism" "Modern Art" seems to give a few thousand hits now. :) --Sketchee 21:29, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. New realism or "nouveau realism" is a reasonably important movement in modern art and our article on modern art links there.Capitalistroadster 15:05, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

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text:
John 20:14

John 20:14 is the fourteenth verse of the twentieth chapter of the Gospel of John in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. In this verse, Mary Magdalene has just finished speaking to the angels she found in Jesus's empty tomb. She then turns and sees the resurrected Jesus, but fails to recognize him. In the Gospel of John, this is the first moment anyone sees Jesus after his resurrection.

Content
The King James Version translates the passage as:
 * And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

For a collection of other versions see BibleHub John 20:14

Analysis
It is significant that it is Mary Magdalene who is the first to see the risen Jesus, but it raises the question of why she does not recognise him; in the next verse she mistakes him for the gardener. One interpretation is that the resurrected Jesus did not have the same physical form as before, but rather a wholly new appearance. John Calvin argued that the fault is with Mary, seeing her blindness in the face of Jesus as a metaphor for those who fail to see Jesus despite his divine nature. This episode does not appear in the other Gospels.

That the angels of the previous two verses are from this point wholly forgotten is to Schnackenberg evidence that the angels were a later addition to the text and that the original narrative did not include them.

title: John 20:14


text:
Eric Guggenheim

Eric Guggenheim (born October 22, 1973) is an American screenwriter. He graduated from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts in 1995. Two years later he sold a script, Trim, to Fox 2000 at age 23. Following that, he wrote an unproduced drama for Warner Bros. and a one-hour drama pilot for USA Network. In 2004, Guggenheim wrote the feature film Miracle. Guggenheim is currently a writer, executive producer and co-showrunner of the CBS series Hawaii Five-0 and Magnum P.I., he was announced as the showrunner after co-creator Peter Lenkov was fired by CBS. Before that he spent four seasons as a writer on the NBC series Parenthood. His brothers are screenwriters Marc Guggenheim and David Guggenheim. His family is Jewish.

title: Eric Guggenheim