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Talk:Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter/Archive 1

Tabula Rasa
It would be worth mentioning Tabula Rasa, as it is a FPS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.20.69.237 (talk) 00:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Unless they changed it recently it is at best a MMOTPS (third person shooter). You are never in FPS style of gameplay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaon94 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Technical Limitations
This is a bit of a nitpick but the article states worst-case packet count increases at "(n-1)2 + n" packets for each new player and then goes on to state "the 'cost' of each additional player becomes exponentially greater as numbers rise." This is a misnomer; (n-1)2 + n means that it increases quadratically. An exponential increase would look like 2n, making the problem essentially intractable considering it's MMO.

 * This is kind of moot, because I think most of the paragraph is too technical even for the typical gamer. It would probably be more informative to list the general problem (sounds like some type of graph traversal to me) along with a link to the corresponding page.Cj Gaconnet 02:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Incomprehensible
"Its gritty graphical style and gameplay mechanics are praised by its fans but have been heavily criticised by the community." Please improve the clarity of this sentence if you know what the original writer was trying to convey. Tommy.rousse 02:57, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Purge
Purge is NOT an MMOFPS. It's an FPS with RPG elements. More extended than Enemy Territory (you are able to save your EXP/Levels, but this also works on some ET Servers). There rest is exactly like an FPS. You log in to games over a Server Browser and I think everyone can start a server. The game is really cool! Try it! But it's no MMOFPS. Oh, btw. the character is saved on the own computer.. (no, its not that easy to cheat).

(I also think that Gunz, while it is a great game, is not an MMOFPS. You log in to games like in Diablo in Battlenet. They are on one server (kike in the battle net) but not in the same environment)

(Neocron and FoM should be counted as at least very near to MMOFPS. There are BIG enverionmets, like in a real MMORPG (Anarchy Online, Everquest, Ultima Online). Every player can interact with all other players of Server (not just game, like in GunZ - there are no "Games" in Neocron)). These games, Neocron mostly do share features of the MMORPG gerne... you can get more than 10 levels and the car is really evolving)

MMOFPS?
Question: The article on MMORPGs is at that page... shouldn't this article therefore be at MMOFPS instead of here? - Estel (talk) 16:57, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

Answer:I believe that the MMORPG article had the title because that was what they were most widely known as. MMOFPS is not an as widely used term. Greeves 01:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

NEOCON IS MMOFPS ??
neocron is not justa rpg game with a fps view, like project entropia??

Should GunZ even be on this list? It's a third-person game not a first-person game and the article is about MMOFPSes. - DNewhall

Wth, there are a million different MM*** articles. Someone should do some serious merging.

Well the MMOFPS's I play nobody RP's in them.

Huxley and PlanetSide are MMOFPS, Face of Mankind and Neocron are MMORPG, so 4 of the 7 mentioned games are not even in this category(the other 3 I have not heard about, so I can't comment about them) and I hear about the term XORG for the first time. Also the company that "inventioned" the term, has no site or anything, if you google it's name it gives you only 1 result - this article, so the whole XORG "article" is more of a joke, than anything. It must not be merged, but DELETED.

Neocron is a nightmare. It's extremely picky about the system it's running on and the tech support is useless. It took me over 2 months to unsubscribe (during which they charged me). Don't go here.

Planetside is the only true SF MMOFPS I've found. Huxley looks OK, but the devs have already made a fatal mistake: "....and of course if players don't wish to engage in PvP battles, there is always a plentiful amount of NPC's to help their character level up..." That just SCREAMS MMORPG to me...

a new, MMOFPS is under developement... Versus: Conflict Defines Existence... www.versusthegame.com alpha version for q4 2006, retail q4 2007

WTF is this company trying to subvert MMOFPS.. Everyone knows what MMOFPS means this failed startup is trying to pirate the term and twist it to their own meanings. Why is this article meant to be merged with spam from some gay ass company?

The article on XORG should be deleted. Most of the playerbase in WWIIONLINE would (and probably planetside) would object violently to being catogorized into "Extreme" online roleplaying games. It's a marketing gimic not a genre. Perhaps a page on "Virtual Battlefields" could be added to replace it.

Uh wait, we want to invent a new term "virtual battlefield" (which really is a term used to mean something very different by the military) in an attempt to combat someone inventing another term "XORG"?

Fine, I was just thinking outloud. Created a page on virtural battlefields anyway. HAS xorg been deleted yet? Nhorning 11:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Now I think Huxley should be removed, the fps part of the game, the battles, will peak at 200 players(100 on each side). It's like some people are saying. companies try to brand there games MMOFPS, then way down on their page, if your lucky, it will say max 8 players. If you cant at least reach planetside's player numbers(per continent), then dont bother mentioning it.MMirkovic 12:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Battlefield series.
Battefield 1942, Battlefield 2, and Battlefield 2142 are all NOT MMOFPS. These games allow no more 60 people in the largest types of servers with the mode average being about 16 people per server. 216.165.16.184 17:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Exteel
I'll try to put my comment here instead, since it apparently was wrong to put it the main article. This game only support 16 players in FPS, and should not be in this article. A suggestion would be to put max number of players on each game, with max numbers of players I mean the actual FPS part of a game, not people logged in some kind of lobby. MMirkovic 15:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Gunz
I'm pretty sure Gunz falls into this category. anyone else agree?

Uhh... if it has a twitch factor (reticule to aim) with persitant environments and character development than yes.

(I think it's room-based style precludes persistant environs, and the round system. Ditto with War Rock...) 76.179.150.59 21:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

MMOFPS Criteria
'''The following are components beleived to create an MMOFPS game. Any component is open for rebuttal:'''

- The game must have a twitch factor: A reticule to aim is prefferable. Clicking on the character to commence in turn based attacks shouldn't count. Controlling the burst of your weapon should be a must.

- The game should have a persistant environment: Large amounts of characters should be on the same servers, log into the same environment, with the same community. If a story line is involved, ALL characters share the storyline.

- Persistant character devlopment: You should be able to log into the same character that you logged into the day before and have existing stats (represented in any form) that you have earned.

I don't believe that the 3rd point actually must be a factor. Obviously this type of game is most commonly compared to RPGs, however, this type of game in itself should not have to be one. For instance, having a Battlefield sort of spawn should still work; you don't neccesarily have to character. Also, considering how some of these games try to emulate real life situations (Like WWII)being the same character over and over wouldn't even make any sense. So really, I think that this is more of a characteristic of and FPS and RPG hybrid. 67.71.45.60 17:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

124.80.228.27 09:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC) massivefps.com

On the wikipedia entry for MMOFPS: Purge and DarkFall do not appear to be MMOFPS at all. Has anyone played either of thease games and can confirm or deny that they are MMOFPS?

Purge is no MMOFPS! It has a server browser like any other fps and doesn't allow many players per server. But it's a very nice FPS with some RPG elements. You can gain levels (like in Enemy Territory) and the char can be saved (or you play premade chars). But it's not an MMOFPS. There are also no NPCs. Just normal FPS maps. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

I have participated in the LostColony Alpha, and it is a real game developed by an independent development group. The game may be of poor quality upon release due to its very low funding, but does not constitue a hoax. Was there another game here that was believed to be a hoax? If not, can we remove that flag?

SniperSteve 02:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The criteria for an MMOFPS is that it be described as an MMOFPS in a reliable source. Marasmusine 00:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

 * The lost colony alpha now seems to be open to anybody that wants to take a look. The download link is right on the main page.  There are also regular updates to the forums and the game code.  If it ships as advertised it should meet all requirements for MMOFPS.  Can we add this game to the list now?--Dj245 05:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Has it had any independent coverage yet? If it does meet the notability guidelines, then go ahead and start an article and add it to the list. Marasmusine 07:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

War Rock?
Would War Rock be classified as an MMOFPS? After reading about it in EDGE, it sounded a lot like a persistently developing, online FPS. Any views on this? --Tr33zon 12:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

The environment refreshes after each game ends. Look at XBOX 360 games and how they record player stats. The stats carry on and are displayed as a form of persistance, so... if the game offers only one small aspect of online persistance does it constitute as an MMOFPS? 124.80.228.27 16:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC) massivefps.com

There is no way War Rock is an mmofps. It only allows like 32 player on an instanced map that isn't persistent at all. The only thing that's persistent is character development. That doesn't count at all. Battlefield 2142. This is an FPS. Not an MMO. Multiplayer sure. I'm gonna remove it unless someone can honestly prove that it's an MMOFPS and this wasn't added by some fanboy. 70.230.234.195 (talk) 05:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

WarRock itself is limited by only 32 players, because its target is at the mainstream society, thus they choose a somewhat weak engine than a modern engine, and because of that it can't handle more than 32 players. Most systems today can't handle more than 32 players in an FPS type games, because PCI Express technology is going on the same speed as to Parallel bus (e.g. AGP x4, x8) PCI Express (x1, x4, x16, x32...etc. and so forth). I think we might need to add WarRock and other games as a sub-category or as a "trend" or an "age" of gaming industry that is result from the computer limitations in either MMO / MMOG section or MMOFPS sub-category. What do you guys think of it? Or is this more of practice that developers choose in order of easier sustainance or maintainance of the cycle of organizaiton a company?

Because in other genre of games, Bomber Online & another game that is another that is almost same as bomber online (but more interactively, known as Crazy Arcade) <---it have several names, I forgot the most current ones. Anyhow they are played in "rooms." 02:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC) by ramu50 Sorry that I keep adding it back in, I thought somebody have some sorted of hatred against that game, I am new to Wikipedia contributions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramu50 (talk • contribs) 02:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Tribes 2 was able to handle 64 players on mid range hardware eight years ago, and IIRC Planetside does several hundred per continent. Warrock's player cap is a design decision, not a hardware limitation. It's not a MMOFPS. - MrOllie (talk) 02:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Bottom line; WP:V. If multiple reliable sources call it a MMOFPS, then we do. If they don't, we don't. Marasmusine (talk) 09:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Bottom line, you guys have no proof, K2Network, the designer of WarRock DOES target the mainstream society, not the high-end market, since it services started at 2001 (its obivious choice would to be servicing the AGP age, since that is the best at year 2001). But after Feb 2004 when PCI Express was introduced, K2Network still didn't consider high-end Geforce 4~6+ (which is the high end market for MMO). All the games you see are around Geforce 3 (e.g. Mu Online [DirectX8], Knight Online & WarRock[Geforce 3]. Grando Esapda was an exception, introduced at around 2007, so that is a new decision and can't be taken into consideration of hardware limitation. Also MrOllie, PlanetSide is a COMMUNITY, similar to GameSpy not a company,. The high end market today is Geforce 4~6 for minimum requirement such as MMO games by WebZen [e.g. Soul of the Ultimate Nation].

Even if graphic isn't a limitation, in order for "fast pace" games in a massive map that can hold hundreds of people (which isn't what WarRock is designed for), you require at least a 1.7GHz Dual Core or 2.8GHz+ [minimum at Pentium 4], which is not possible during 2001. Earliest Dual Core introduced is "around" Quarter 2 of 2006 (Turion x2, Core 2 Duo). If are going argue on that part, then I think only Wolfstein has not features, no other FPS has that feature, as far as I know, which I totally think sound ridiculous, this is a matter of Buisness Decision which affect hardware limitation and has no indication of not an MMOFPS.

Does it work only online, yes Is it maintain, upgrade and survillance under one company for a length of period, yes again. Just because there is one "fault" doesn't mean its not a MMOFPS, not every company is perfect, and there clearly isn't a defintion in FPS that state it has to be open range combat. 19:21, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Anything with an MMOG or MMORPG status has to have a Persistent world, meaning a single server which is always on. The mere fact that online play is always going on does NOT make it an MMOFPS, if play takes places in widespread game arenas for 32 players. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Absoutely none of the any group of professional or a collective group of people state or agree on MMO/MMOG or MMOFPS, FPS must not be with in a room. WarRock is in a Persistent World, just because you choose only parts of the area within a certain world for players to play, doesn't make it that it isn't a persistant world. The Persistent World defination never stated that all parts of the world must be playable, the WarRock maps are based on storyline, what is situable for players due to the limitation of hardware limitation technologies doesn't dictate that it isn't a MMOFPS.

NOTE: I don't want to keep on FLAMING for no reason, but you guys need to specific valid evidience. 22:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramu50 (talk • contribs)

Oh I should explain more in depth why I deleted it. The reason was because War Rock is instanced. It's the same reason why BattleField 2142 isn't an MMOFPS. The game ends also at a time interval. This constant restarting takes away any persistence within the control point system of gameplay. The only thing persistent about it is the player scores. Take Planetside for instance. It has 7 continent or something with a persistent control point gameplay. At it's prime it could support 300+ person battles. Also if you notice if you've ever played Warrock is that its maps are ridiculously small and could never suitably scale for many players. Without access to the actual server code I have no clear way to tell if it's scalable. I'm almost 100% certain however that their engine doesn't support multi server clustering as is seen in zone based client-server architecture. The 32 player limitation is one of the larger reasons I did remove it. Putting such a low cap instantly kills off the chance it s gonna gain the title of an mmog.

I think the player store thing might be confusing you though. There are tons of games which allow users to buy things and level up while they play. This character creation is seen in games like Gunz (3rd person shooter) and Gunbound (turn based game). It doesn't make it an mmo. Also as mentioned before Battlefield 2142 has character progression and isn't an mmofps. Also one thing to note about warrock is that players have control over the instances. A single player decides when to start the instance and can kick other players and such. This is not seen an MMO games. If you had seen Planetside at its peak you'd know what an mmofps was.

//Oh yeah check this out: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm <--- you'll notice all MMOFPS games are listed. Warrock isn't one of them. 69.221.246.5 (talk) 04:23, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, there were certainly a lot of points put forwards there, but I'll reiterate that WP:Verifiability is the bottom line, because that is Wikipedia policy. If there are no multiple, reliable sources describing the game as being a particular genre, then we don't either. Marasmusine (talk) 09:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Good point. I've never seen any reputable organizations label it as an mmofps. Also the official site doesn't even say it's an mmofps. It clearly says FPS.

"War Rock is a tactical online multiplayer FPS (first-person shooter) with a modern military theme. Players side with either the Derbaran Military or the NIU forces, and participate in a variety of scenarios across a wide range of maps and gameplay modes."

Easy enough. The largest point I think is that people actually go to the discussion page and understand why it isn't there. Easier than arguing with people trying to add games that are obviously not an mmofps. 69.221.246.5 (talk) 05:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Gunz clear-up (don't discuss further in this section, just copy my words to other section if you want to discuss it and then delete it) Don't bring in Gunz to this section, Gunz itself is a MMORPG + MMOFPS together. It is MMORPG because the basis of RPG is defined by creation using science fiction / non-generation, horror-related genre, at some rare ocassion it include serial killer. The facr that Gunz using martial arts and horror-related monsters clearly defined it is MMORPG. It is also a MMORPG since there is utilization of using items that is collectable. It is very clear it is an MMOFPS, it just have different elements of killing.

As previous said before, the MMOFPS is still limited by current technologies today, so you can't say that they are not MMOFPS. The problem the industry is facing today is medium-high graphic DirectX9 quality such as those of Sword of the New World, Soul of the Ultimate Nations and Halo. in order for you to have such big Persistent World, and have such action-experience you have to use a IA-86 or MAJC-based architecture with HPC. ---(action-expereince refering to medium-high graphic quality and regular physics processing) However, since HPC are way too expensive, many game companies choose not to use a Persistent World. They are currently ABSOULTELY NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE and if you want to provide such high quality services, you have no choice to use HPC which cost way too much for a company. Also a Persistent World require way too many players participant and this is a huge problem it is hard for the companies, to have events, promotion. Therefore WarRock, Gunz and all the other games are still consider MMOFPS no matter what.

By the way Wikipedia is the only community that define MMO as a Persistent World, so it is not accepted by the mainstream therefore your claiming of Persistent World doesn't make any difference.

Note:
 * Most HPC companies are governement funded today. (still gathering sources.)

Prove (the problem, technical) IA-86 processor is currently the only processor that is capable of fast IOPS process and provide stabiliy the virtualizaiton, but it is not design for efficient management, which is what is expected by the mainstream. You can see this that Intel doesn't pursue on speed, because as each generation continues, they are adding more technologies to each processor, instead just pure increasing speed. (e.g. Superthreading to Multithreading, Single Channel memory to Dual Channel & Tri-Channel)

The CPU today currently is not accepted by the Open Source community (Sun Microsystem, MAJC & Cydrome [1984], VLIW) as an true processor, it is considered more of a microprocessor. The reason being is that CPU means "Central" Processing Unit and Central meaning Management. However, when CPU process it is unbalance sometimes you get (80% FPU, 2% ALU, 18 NPU), unable to balance it and thus resulting overheating up to 50 degree Celsius isn't efficient management. Therefore a CPU is really not that much different from GPU, PPU, APU...etc. This limitation actually make the CPU unable to achieve stability and fast pace interaction as in normal FPS game, it is even hard for the comptuer to estability it in a peer-to-peer commmunity, nevermind in a MMO community, it would be impossible, you WILL get very high lag.

Thus all Persistent World based games use for very low detail graphics, as seen in World War II online only require 1.2GHz PowerPC G4 processor or higher (source: from Mac)

However, even if you make the subunit have the ability to be shared (like in GPU where shader, vector, electrical engineer are still bottlenecked by the problem of topological design.

That is why Sun Microsystems is currently still trying to develop MAJC, MAJC doesn't require subunit, that the entire processor is capable of handling any type of data, and reschedule interlocks. Interlocks are two things that can't be separated (e.g. for example if Process 1 is C = A + B, E = C + D require 2 clock cycles and both threads have to be read before able to process, then the MAJC will try to reschedule something that will take exactly 2 clock cycles or less making it efficient process. However, there is still a barrier in speed achievement, that is why MAJC hasn't appeared in the market yet.

So that doesn't may WarRock, Gunz, PlanetSide and all the other games a MMORPG. Ramu50 (talk) 17:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I hate to sound like a stuck record, but: If multiple reliable sources are calling a particular game a MMOFPS or MMORPG or whatever, then we do to; if they don't, then we don't, per WP:Verifiability policy. There shouldn't be any original research going on in trying to work out if something is of a particular genre or not. Marasmusine (talk) 22:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If no one can provide proof / citation to disagree on my opinion in 1 week, then I am putting it back on, just so you know. The citation for mmorpg as previously mentioned is removed, because it says MMO"RPG" not MMOFPS so it is irrelevant to this topic, thank you for you contributations. --Ramu50 (talk) 16:50, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

 * That's not how it works, I'm afraid. You'll need to provide a citation for inclusion as the party what wants to material added. See V - MrOllie (talk) 16:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, please do not blank the comments of other parties in this discussion. - MrOllie (talk) 17:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In case it's not clear, you need a reliable source saying that war rock is an MMOFPS. Bridies (talk) 02:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd say it doesn't qualify as an MMOFPS. Just look at the abbreviation: MASSIVELY Multiplayer First Person Shooter. If it was called MOFPS, it would fit. But the massive means for me, that every player could practically see every other player everywhere. Nothing or almost nothing is instanced. Massive means, almost all or EVERY player is in the same world. That match-type system is only a Multiplayer FPS for me. 217.80.39.249 (talk) 11:49, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

"This article or section is written like an advertisement" comment.
In the section reguarding the game Planetside: "A free demo version of PlanetSide was available from March 23rd, 2006 though March 24, 2007." should be removed since it does advertise what used to be a free "trail". It doesn't offer anything productive to this article and I think it should be removed. (HideAndGoSeek 00:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)) Edit: Wasn't logged in.

 * Agreed, and I made the change to remove it. Thanks for the suggestion. Warthog32 22:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

there needs to be a "list of mmofps games" wikipedia entry so we can get rid of the game advertising and focus on the MMOFPS genre- not its games —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.143.209.177 (talk) 01:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

 * That's a great idea, we'll have to see what material about the genre in general there is. Marasmusine (talk) 08:19, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm still trying to define the genre on MassiveFPS.com, instead of pasting the lengthy discussion and add to the clutter here I'd like to invite some of the level headed folks here to this forum discussion

face of mankind is not an fps
Face of mankind is not an FPS, in fact it is probably one of the purest examples of rpg there is. While it has FPS elements, I definitely feel it is more of an RPG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Titan124 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What factor of MMOFPS was it missing then? The twitch aspect? -Aknorals 11:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I know what he is talking about, its more of a futurisitcs science fiction genre that is probably more relatd to the movie The Matrix. Initially in highschool when I was playing online games for couple of years, I got bored, so I spent more time on researching the gaming trend, industry practices, designing principles...etc. I found out that just about how games are designed in a very special way. In my aspect, gaming should divided into different genres, FPS, RTS, RPG, MMO...etc and then further down divided into different "genre" (such as in FPS, you can aim at Modern Warefare, futuristics wars [like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow] and so forth. But in designing games you can often take closely-related genere and play around with them, so that made wonder is that practice correct.

Here my thought on how to categorize them, you categorized them into indepedant theme (meaning only one theme) and multi-theme genre. Or come up with some better terms 02:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Huxley
I really don't think huxley should be on this list. The world is not persistant, the battles are instanced, and the max players in a battle is 200. There is also battles against AI. Anyone else think the same way, or am I totally off base? Gulfy32 (talk) 20:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a reliable, independant source that calls it an MMOFPS, so it goes in. Bridies (talk) 20:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Can you link the source? Gulfy32 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's in the article, at the end of the huxley section.Click on the little number at the end.Bridies (talk) 05:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Link: 'Huxley Goes Beta' Bridies (talk) 05:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I too have begun to question their MMOFPS title. They said their PvP was at max 20v20 on the largest map they are making for release. Games Radar It's already a very heavily instanced game so this news has had me wondering. I know there can be no original research on wikipedia, but it seems to me the game is lying heavily about it's "mmo" title. We'll have to wait and see how things go. Hopefully its non-instanced gameplay makes it deserve an "mmo" prefix. 141.218.136.207 (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Until someone gets in and actually plays it I think it should stay on the list. I have also heard conflicting rumors about the amount of people and if it was even going to be persistent or not, but all indications seem to still be pointing at a persistent world with up to 200 v 200. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaon94 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

PlanetSide
I was thinking about changing the last sentence in the description of PlanetSide. No other mmofps on the list has a sentence describing their number of subscripitions and how the number has steadily declined. Gulfy32 (talk) 13:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

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Massive Action Game (MAG)
I added this seeing as it's 256 players and in development. We'll see if the company officially calls it an mmofps or a multiplayer game. However from the persistent stat system it sounds similar to Huxley. We'll see.69.221.227.182 (talk) 22:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Clarify what is and isn't a MMOFPS.
Hate to nitpick. But Online Shooters are not the same thing as MMOFPS. If it has "matches" and "game modes", it is NOT a MMOFPS. For that reason, I am removing AVA and Sudden Attack from this page.

A MMOFPS is basically a MMORPG, with a Twitch-Shooter Gameplay style. It's a constant persistent world. There no "matches" or "game modes" involved. You would not classify Oblivion or Fable as a MMORPG in the same list as World of Warcraft. Therefore we should not do the same with FPS. JMWhiteIV (talk) 00:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Our criteria for inclusion is whatever WP:RSs have described as MMOFPSs. A brief look at the publisher's sites of the two games you mention show that they aren't described as massively multiplayer, so I think you are correct in removing them. Marasmusine (talk) 00:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

When it is
- You can be in First Person (does not have to force you but has to at least have the option) - You have a Reticule with which You must aim at an object to shoot it. - twitch style gameplay - Persistent world - Massive amount of players per server.

When it is not
- You are stuck in third person - Not a persistant environment - Not massive

Example
New game1 is introduced as a MMOFPS but immediately it is reported by a developer you will never be in First Person mode. Automatically it disqualifies it as a MMOFPS and should not be included on this page unless it is reported otherwise.

New game2 is introduced as a MMOFPS and after it is reported that though there will be thousands per server and be a First Person shooter, it looks like each instanced PVP zone is only going to support 64 players per side, and PVP will be limited to these zones. All other zones will have larger capacities. This game is still an MMOFPS. As long as you are in First Person, you shoot while aiming in a twitch environment, and have a massive amount of players per server it is a MMOFPS, and the reason why is it is massive, it is online, it is a First Person Shooter. PVP might not be on the massive scale, but that is not what makes a MMOFPS. (though if they do not have it I would think it would likely fail)

Global Agenda
I am going to remove it since it only has elements of an FPS

"Global Agenda is technically a third person shooter..." - Todd Harris, the Executive Producer for Global Agenda Interview with Todd Harris —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaon94 (talk • contribs) 18:58, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Hellgate London
MMO? I have not played Hellgate, so would like a ruling by someone that did.

Answer the following questions and we can decide to let it stay or not. The first three I know to be true.

1. You can be in First Person (THIS IS TRUE) 2. You have a Reticule with which You must aim at an object to shoot it. (THIS IS TRUE) 3. twitch style gameplay (THIS IS TRUE) 4. Persistent world (?) by tooling around the web I say no though some have also said yes 5. Massive amount of players per server. (?) this would be the most important of course

A couple of things I have seen about this game is The game is completely zoned. Even the safe zones in the game can only hold 50 or so people. There is no persistent world where thousands of people can inhabit the land together. If the answers to 4 or 5 is no we should remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaon94 (talk • contribs)

 * Your criteria require original research, which policy says we aren't supposed to do. All that matters is if reliable, third party sources call a given game a MMOFPS or not. - MrOllie (talk) 16:44, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, with that said then I guess it does have to stay. It is definitely listed as a MMO on many reliable third party sites, and it is definitely a FPS which would make it a MMOFPS.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.128.156 (talk) 23:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Donnybrook
Microsoft's research project on "Systems issues in networked multiplayer games", codenamed Donnybrook, has some interesting articles which are somewhat related to the topic. In short, to quote the latest article (from Aug 08) "Donnybrook [is] a system that enables peer-managed, large-scale, high-speed games by supporting epic battles involving hundreds of players" - considering the games they are referring to are FPS's, I'm sure there's a connection here somewhere. In any case, it has been mentioned in the press as the background of a possible Halo MMO, and that paper quoted above also says the authors are currently working on the "Internet deployment of a large-scale game using Donnybrook". It's all at most tangentially related, but it could be useful in the article... somehow. --VPeric (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Pan-Africanism

Untitled
Shouldn't there be some mention of the Pan-African conferences? Perhaps an entire section devoted to them? Calder 17:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calder (talk • contribs)

I would like to merge this article with Afrocentrism, and then make it a redirect to that article. See Talk:Afrocentrism, --SqueakBox 21:21, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think that's a good idea; Pan-Africanism relates to Afrocentrism, but they definitely aren't the same thing - you can view Pan-Africanism as more of a political movement, and Afrocentrism as a cultural one. Perhaps another route to take would be expanding this article to provide more detail on the politcal side of things. --Feralcats 21:57, April 5, 2005 (EST)

--SqueakBox 01:59, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)If the article were better it would be a different kettle of fish, To close the above quasi discussion, let me present some Google-cred:
 * 1) +Pan +Africa-> 3,700,000 google hits
 * 2) PanAfrica -> 104,000
 * 3) "Pan Africanism" and "Pan-Africanism" -> 50,500
 * 4) +Pan +Africanism -> 53,700
 * 5) PanAfricanism -> 22,200

I rest my case. Unsigned comment

You are misquoting the above Google information, the first option will find every article containing "pan" and "africa" so an article about cooking in africa using a frying pan will be inclided the same with any any hyphonated words, as Google treats spaces and hyphons as the same thing even if they are "**" for search purposes. Just as "PanAfrica" will also include everything under the "PanAfricanism" search as it is contained in PanAfricanism. 81.149.82.243 11:02, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge? Ridiculous! But this piece needs major improvement
The suggestion to merge this article with Afrocentrism is absolutely absurd. Afrocentrism is a paradigm for the study of history and a particular world-view about how human history has unfolded. Pan-Africanism is a sociopolitical ideology and a general framework for real-world change.

Further, this article needs major work. IMO, the earlier definition which I contributed some time ago is certainly far superior to the one that currently stands. In editing the first few paragraphs, which limited the diasporic peoples encompassed by the term to the descendants of African slaves, I came to realize, "Hey, I've been here before." I went back and read my earlier edits -- which address the important issues which gave rise to the concept itself (and which are inexplicably and completely absent from the present version).

What a difference!

To divorce the movement from the objective historical, political, economic and societal circumstances which gave rise to it makes absolutely no sense. If you must edit an article, please take care to improve it -- not just replace someone else's words with your own. I know that all pieces on this website are essentially works in progress, but this article is a piece crap and needs major work. Unfortunately, by and large, the current version is not an improvement upon earlier edits.

Because I would prefer to have this piece framed by black people (and others) who are already knowledgeable about and interested in pan-Africanism, I will not put this on the list of articles for improvement -- yet. But if the abjectly sucky, crapitude of this piece isn't substantially altered in the next few weeks, I certainly will do so. And God knows what will happen to it then! :p deeceevoice 09:44, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Article development
I second deeceevoice - 1) no merging of this article; 2) the changes proposed by deeceevoice will be beneficial to this article's width and depth.

I propose adding a sideboxes with Pan-African flags (home & abroad) and pictures of prominent figures - I will wait 2 weeks for comments/suggestions before actioning. Also intend adding paragraph re: OAU / AU.

212.159.17.143 13:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Deeceevoice, just rewrite it already. You know you want to!! I think that if you're going to describe pan-Africansim as a political movement, then it will be necessary to have a paragraph about the OAU/AU. I'll look at it!

Merge proposal

 * Merge Pan-African into Pan-Africanism. There should also be an article on Pan-African studies.  Badagnani 00:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge Article should go back to Sons of Africa and the Sierra Leone Company, the foundation of Liberia and work through with the different historical periods. Harrypotter 13:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Very poor standard
have a look at this "the green standing for the vegetation of the Black races' African motherland and the black for African descended people themselves." what is it trying to say? Why dont the pan-Africanist clean up this site? --Halaqah 14:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

CLEANNED UP, KEEP IT CLEAN
ok it was a pain to look at, a poor reflection of the title. now i bet the "pan-Africanist" will come an attack me, they dont see what ur trying to do, no they attack and find some accusation to discredit the work.anyway keep it clean it needs ref, and it should be objective, not emotional. --Halaqah 15:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ge'ez
However, much evidence is still required to determine whether Ge'ez is a language native to Africa or whether it was under the influence of the extinct Southern Arabian script. The above was deleted by me, i put it here to curb this kind of thinking. Southern Arabian doesnt imply not African, why must we debate in such a limited geographical realm, even if Ge'ez was Southern Arabian it doesnt mean "not African" I have to point you to a valid discussion as i am not qualified although i read and write Ge'ez a little Discussion about Arabic influence on Ethiopian --Halaqah 16:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Please stop adding POV to the African Codes usage of Ge'ez. The claim is they uses it or believe it should be used to write all African languages. There is no need to disucss a POV or what Ge'ez on this site, it would be better to place this debate elsewhere. You have cited no references at it is a POV, which has nothing to do with the African Code. There is no claim attached it simply states it is the last African script, baka,---HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 02:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Some revisions, and several questions
I reworded a lot of things to make them clearer, and did a bit of my own research to make things more accurate, but I still had a bunch of questions that I didn't know how to answer. I'll stick them here and cross-link a bit, and hopefully some other people who know more about Pan-Africanism can answer them. Anyway, I may be able to work on some of these things over the weekend, but a lot of it desperately needs a subject matter expert, or at least somebody who's taken a class in pan-Africanism. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jetamors 21:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In Pan-Africanism:
 * by the end of the eighteenth century a political movement developed across the Americas, Europe and Africa which sought to weld these disparate movements into a network of solidarity putting an end to this oppression. Did this political movement have a name?  Was this a mission of  Sons of Africa, or is Sons of Africa just one of many groups recruited into this larger network?
 * I added a short blurb about the origins of modern Pan-Africanism, but it could use some more information. Currently it only mentions the first Pan-African conference, but if there were any definitive books about Pan-Africanism published around the 1880s-1900s, they could be mentioned here as well.
 * In Pan-Africanism:
 * The information on past Pan-African organizations should probably go into its own, expanded section, but I left it here for now. If you scroll down to the end, I mention this more in my last section.
 * In Pan-Africanism:
 * I put in a short, out of date list, but more people (either everyone listed in the talkbox or 10-15 truly key individuals) and more information on each individual should be added. I can work on that very slowly, but as I've said, this isn't my area of expertise, and reading up on every person and then trying to figure out who's key and who isn't would take me a very long time.
 * In Pan-Africanism:
 * I think more information on Pan-African studies should be added.
 * In Pan-Africanism
 * I'm really unclear on why these organizations in particular are listed; I get that they're all currently functioning, but why isn't Uhuru Movement, for example, listed? I'll add it tomorrow if no one else has, but there are probably other influential Pan-African organizations out there that need to be added, but that I don't know about. Added. --Jetamors 00:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The A-APRP website was less than informative. I could contact them and ask them to send me some materials, but is there anybody who has more information on them?
 * The Nguzo Saba/Seven Principles/Seven Key Principles/Seven Principles of Blackness should be referred to uniformly, but I'm not sure which is correct, or if it should be capitalized. In Kwanzaa it's Seven Principles of Kwanzaa, but based on the Us website I think they're meant to have a wider application.
 * In Pan-Africanism
 * I stuck these together, first because they seem to overlap, and second because there was only one thing in the Philosophy section.
 * Is it important that the African code considers Kiswahili and Ge'ez to be official? I left that sentence in, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
 * Should Negritude be added to this section? Are there some other things that should be added?
 * In general:
 * I think a section on notable past Pan-African association is needed: for example, the Pan African Association, the Pan African Congress, Marcus Garvey's Universal Negro Improvement Association-African Communities League, etc., etc. I'm only vaguely aware of where to look for this stuff, so it would help if somebody else came along and added it.
 * Additionally, I think a section on Pan-African scholarship should be added, probably in the Pan-Africanism. Just the references from this page give me the Journal of Pan African Studies, but where else do people get published?
 * I tried to standardize: Pan-African, both parts capitalized, with hypen. The only exception is group names formatted differently, such as Pan African Association.  But I might have missed a few places, or there may be good arguments for doing it a different way.
 * The organizations section almost certainly needs to be improved. There are groups that should be mentioned there but aren't, such as the Uhuru Movement, and some of the groups mentioned don't seem to be that important.  I'd really appreciate it if someone who knows more about the current situation could make the call on that. I added the groups listed on the talkbox, so I think what we have now is okay, though it may be too inclusive. --Jetamors 00:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:GAfrikancongress.jpg
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Wiki Is not a shopping list
Do not add unknowns to a list which shouldnt be there anyway, How long will it get if we just keep adding anyone who claims to be a Pan-Africanist -

Africana womanism
Helo everyone! You may be interested in checking out Africana womanism. Thank you! The Ogre (talk) 15:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

POOR QUALITY | EXPERT NEEDED
Apart from the section on Origins, it seems like a shopping list of famous people and famous or infamous organizations. Almost like a disconnected trivia page on Pan-Africanism.
 * Where is the African Union in this article? (2 minor references)
 * Where is the Pan-Africanism today?
 * the problems facing Pan-Africanism?
 * Arguments for an against
 * Role of Bob Marley, Garvey, Malcolm X, Ghadaffi in Pan-Africanism, as oppose to a shopping list of their names

An expert that can expand and develop the article is necessary. And that shopping list of Pan-Africanist needs to be deleted and merged into the history and development of Pan-Africanism, because it is just lazy to have names disconnected. If they are Pan-Africanist then put them in their historical place in the body of the story of Pan-Africanism. --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Just because the article is poor quality doesn't mean add content without reference. Treat African History with the respect other sections on wikipedia are treated BY Using References and sources.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 13:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

WIKI LEDE undue weight and not worldview
The views of Pan-Africanism in America do not belong in the LEDE, See wiki lede for more info. We have Brazil, the Caribbean and guess what Africa with Pan-Africanism. So how does an Ethnic minority opinion which talks more about Afrocentrism get into the lede? The sources are about Afrocentrism not necessarily Pan-Africanism. Afrocentic Pan-Africanism is a sub-topic here that is where it belongs. We have over 54 nations under the AU and this POV is weak at best as it relates to Pan-Africanism. I do not see any Seats at the AU for America. So how does the opinion of two European authors get into the Lede as it relates to Afrocentrism based upon their own ignorant assumptions of Pan-Africanism. --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 15:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Because most literature on Pan-Africanism is written in the US. I do not dispute that there is some Pan-Africanism in Africa, but this is an extremely marginal phenomenon because most people in Africa probably realize that there are various unrelated peoples within the continent. Would you believe that Haplogroup L0 (mtDNA) suggests that the Khoisa are actually the most archaic human group to spilt off our family tree, while everybody else in Africa is more closely related to Europeans and Polynesians than to the Khoisa?

Yes, there is a second, completely unrelated meaning of the term "Pan-Africanism", referring to modern economic or political unification of the various African states. This is not normally called "Pan-Africanism", but because some African dictators (notably Gaddafi) conflate the crackpot ideology with real-world politics, the line is difficult to draw. You are welcome to add a discussion of this if you cite your references. Seriously, when are you going to recognize that you have no business even editing here as long as you do not respect WP:CITE?

The normal term for "Pan-African organization" is Pan-African. Note the lack of "-ism". E.g., Pan-African Parliament. This has nothing to do with ideological Pan-Africanism, it simply means that all African countries are represented.

You are very welcome to discuss "Pan-Africanism" in the sense of "advocacy of Pan-African structures". You may use a source (remember WP:CITE) such as The failure of grassroots Pan-Africanism by Opoku Agyeman (2003). I hope the name of the author sounds sufficiently non-European to you to prevent you from bursting into another rant. --dab (𒁳) 17:05, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I quote:

 * "some Pan-Africanism in Africa" Only some, are you really sure?
 * "Most Pan-African books are written in the USA"

Do you think they would be more Pan-Africanist in Africa or in America? Is Bill Cosby and Sharpton Pan-Africanist? What about Cornell West and Vanessa Williams. What percentage of the Pan-African world do the few African-Americans constitute to Pan-Africanism? And how many people hold the opinion uncerimonusly inserted into the LEDE? is that not un-due weight? And bias? The opinion of anti-Afrocentrics who still do not know the difference between Afrocentrism and Pan-Africanism. Let me explain PAN and AFRICAN ISM (the ideology of Pan- African). Like commun ISM. The failure of Grass roots Pan-Africanism is a book you grabbed from google (did it come up on the top page?)Is the autor talking about Afrocentrism? is the word even in his article? Most Pan-Africanist are not Afrocentrics. And many Afrocentrics have no interest in Pan-Africanism some of them are Black Nationalist in America. Feel free to continue to edit the article as an expert on Pan-Africanism. You may want to deal with the writings of this man Konari and the few books Nkrumah wrote. I now realize what you are saying Nkrumah was not a Pan-Africanist He was a Pan-African organizer. I think you are making my argument for me. Yes you are more qualified on ALL of these topics despite my 5 year history editing here. Out of the blue you decide to change the LEDE to suit an argument on Pre-Colonial Africa. A few hours ago you told me your agenda was not Political. Take a look at your edits to poor Obenga now what did he do to deserve that?--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Sourced material only
It is easy angry to get annoyed at this article, it is missing a lot of content. It is basically empty. But do not make it worst by adding our opinion (even if that opinion is correct). And do not delete referenced material (the little referenced material we do have). Do the research and use the Talk Page to make the article better. And No, Wikipedia is not a reference.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 08:40, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Two tags Worldview and Primary source
Both tags have no justification in the talk page. Worldview, I do not see how that is an issue. It deals with Pan-Africanism in Barbados, Africa and America and the UK. Primary sources, CNN, et all are not primiary sources. Plus it is a specialist topic so the volume of sources will be like that.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 05:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Pan-African flag
A passage was added claiming that "sometimes the green, gold, and red of the Ethiopian flag are used as the colors of the Pan-African movement". While it is true that the Ethiopian flag's colors has inspired and been adopted by various Pan-African organizations and groups, the Ethiopian flag itself, like many other world flags that feature this particular combination of colors, was not historically conceived with Pan-African idealogy in mind. The cited CIA link does not indicate that it was either, nor does it mention Pan-Africanism. The other Walta link is likewise inaccessible for verification. Given this, I have removed the material. Middayexpress (talk) 17:04, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, I properly sourced the passage now, noting that various countries in Africa and Pan-African groups adopted the flag of Ethiopia and that they were inspired by the fact that Ethiopia is the continent's oldest independent nation . However, the only verifiable link apparently indicating the same thing as the inaccessible Walta link had wiki-mirrored text, so I left that out . I also fixed the African Union's (at its foundation known as the Organization of African Unity) original objective. Per the organization, it was established in 1963 in part "to safeguard the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Member States and to promote international cooperation within the framework of the United Nations" . Additionally, I corrected the African Union's headquarters; the seat of the African Union Commission is in Addis Ababa, while the seat of the Pan-African Parliament is in Johannesburg and Midrand. Middayexpress (talk) 18:19, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Owen 'Alik Shahadah
A discussion thread about the reliability and notability of this author and his pages is taking place at Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, please comment there so we can get a final consensus. Rupert Loup (talk) 12:06, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Pan-African Events not Included
The historical chronology of the pan-African movement needs some work - there is no mention of the Accra Conference in 1958 and nothing on the Festival panAfricain d'Alger 1969. I am going to improve this section - is there any other monumental events that are missing from the page?

Nav.Madh (talk) 09:02, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 23/03/2017

The Afro-Arab-Asian Front Question
There is no information in this article of the concept of Arabism in the context of pan-Africanism. Col. Nasser of Egpyt called for an Afro-Asian Solidarity Movement as the Northern African states - Morocco, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt maintained Arab identities but also, post independence and certainly between 1960s-1980s embraced an African identity and recognized with the pan-African movement. Algeria hosted the first festival in 1969. So, what I'm asking is should there be a section in the article discussing the pan-African movement and its relations with its northern states? Or should that be a separate Wikipedia article? Nav.Madh (talk) 09:13, 23 March 2017 (UTC) 23/03/2017

You’re exactly right! Unfortunately from what I can tell, this page takes a very asymmetric historical approach to the development of Pan-Africanism. Much of what is on this article is in fact Black Nationalism and not Pan-Africanism at all. I made an edit addressing this that you can look at. If I had the time I would move most of this page to the Black Nationalist article and start over but I lack both time and tech savvy. I wouldn’t say North Africa should have its own Wikipedia page in relation to PAN-Africanism though. I thinks that would mislead people into thinking that the other states didn’t associate themselves with the North African ones. Itaren (talk) 22:47, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

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Portal:Pan-Africanism has been created.
Portal:Pan-Africanism has been created. I have notified Project Africa and Project African diaspora. Please centralise discussions here about ways to improve the portal i.e. if you have any suggestions or recommendations. In the meantime, please help by adding   to all relevant articles. See Category:Pan-Africanism for the list of relevant articles. Once everything is finished I will make a "link file to portal" request with the Portal team. I will be asking that they link the Pan-African flag to this portal. If you have any objections please state it here. Pinging Thank.Tamsier (talk) 18:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I like it. Thanks for creating. Senegambianamestudy (talk) 03:57, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Revisions I would like to make
There are a few revisions I would like to make to this page, I will list them below:

1) I would like to provide more information on the role of the Organisation of African Union in Pan-Africanism.

2) I would like to give more information on the first All-African People's conference.

3) I would also like to expand on the definition of Pan-Africanism and elaborate on it more.

4) The last thing I would like to do is add a section that speaks about how Pan-Africanism has evolved and it's current day state. Any suggestions as the best way to go about this are welcome!TheChewie12 (talk) 14:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC) Follow me on insta: andreayanes3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.199.144 (talk) 15:12, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

(peer review CP)

Providing more information on the role of the African Union seems to be interesting and very relevant, as the role of the African Union in many areas is greatly expanding and shouldn't be overlooked. It is interesting to go back to the roots (the first conference) and elaborate on the definition. In fact, I feel that for a somewhat uninformed reader (such as I am) on this topic, it would be interesting to elaborate on the implications that the concept of Pan-Africanism has for the international community more broadly. Maybe it's a subject that has been talked about in the United Nations or somewhere else? Overall, your suggestions for improvements appear to me as sound and relevant! Cheers JeanJacquesMoldu (talk) 14:07, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

(peer review CP)

Hey! I think some more elaboration on the definition of Pan Africanism and on the role of the first All-African People's conference would be welcome. Concerning your last suggestion about the evolution of Pan-Africanism to its current form, it could perhaps be done chronologically, by time periods. Finally, in the context of your work, you might find it more feasible to focus on one or two of the suggested revisions above only. Good luck! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarsdeMat (talk • contribs) 15:39, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Pan African Anarchism.png

Ethnic supremacism
There should be a mention of the radical wing of Pan-Africanism that has racial resentments towards non-blacks. Of course not every pan-africanist supports it, but it's deserves a mention. 2A02:3030:81F:C4B8:1:0:6303:48DE (talk) 05:18, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Pan-Africanism


text: Talk:West Ice Shelf

title: Talk:West Ice Shelf


text:
Zone of control

In board wargames, a zone of control (ZOC) is the area directly adjacent to certain combat forces that affects the movement and actions of enemy combat units. In hexagonal tiled maps, a combat unit's zone of control is the six hexagons adjacent to the hexagon occupied by a unit.

The effects of zones of control can vary significantly between different wargame rules. The most common effect is that moving combat units must stop when entering an enemy unit's zone of control. This type of zone of control is termed "rigid" zone of control. If movement is not stopped, but only prohibited when moving directly from one zone of control space to another, this is termed "semi-rigid". Rules that slow down (increase movement cost) instead of stopping movement are termed "fluid" or "elastic" zones of control. Rules that prohibit leaving are termed "locking" zones of control. Some zone of control rules require enemy units must be attacked.

In some games, zones of control may be cancelled by terrain features such as rivers, cities, mountains, the presence of enemy units, or even by enemy zones of control. A couple of wargames even have zones of control partially affect friendly units, representing traffic congestion on nearby roads and access routes. Some games also have zones of control block retreats from combat, or interdict supply lines.

In theory, zones of control represent the military necessity of having to slow down in the presence of the enemy, such as moving off road, dismounting from transport, and moving through cover. In practice, since board wargames are played in turns alternating between the two players, zones of control are used to limit what one player's units can do during their turn while the other player's units are inactive, awaiting their turn. Without zones of control, players could use their fast-moving units to bypass and surround the other players' units without giving them get a chance to react.

Zones of control are also present in some strategy computer games, such as the Civilization series.

title: Zone of control


text:
Anne Truitt

Anne Truitt (March 16, 1921 – December 23, 2004), born Anne Dean, was an American sculptor of the mid-20th century.

She became well known in the late 1960s for her large-scale minimalist sculptures, especially after influential solo shows at André Emmerich Gallery in 1963 and the Jewish Museum (Manhattan) in 1966. Unlike her contemporaries, she made her own sculptures by hand, eschewing industrial processes. Drawing from imagery from her past, her work also deals with the visual trace of memory and nostalgia. This is exemplified by a series of early sculptures resembling monumental segments of white picket fence.

Early life and education
Truitt grew up in Easton, on Maryland's Eastern Shore, and spent her teenage years in Asheville, North Carolina. She graduated from Bryn Mawr College with a degree in psychology in 1943. She declined an offer to pursue a Ph.D. in Yale University’s psychology department and worked briefly as a nurse in a psychiatric ward at Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston. She left the field of psychology in the mid-1940s, first writing fiction and then enrolling in courses offered by the Institute of Contemporary Art in Washington, D.C. She married the journalist James Truitt in 1947, though they divorced in 1971. It was said that James used to tease about Anne's columnar sculptures in referring to the works as "telephone booths".

Work
After leaving the field of clinical psychology in the mid-1940s, Truitt began making figurative sculptures, but turned toward reduced geometric forms after visiting the Guggenheim Museum with her friend Mary Pinchot Meyer to see H.H. Arnason's exhibition "American Abstract Expressionists and Imagists" in November 1961. Truitt remembers that she "spent all that day looking at art…I saw Ad Reinhardt's black canvases, the blacks and the blues. Then I went on down the ramp and rounded the corner and..saw the paintings of Barnett Newman. I looked at them, and from that point on I was home free. I had never realized you could do it in art. Have enough space. Enough color." Truitt was especially inspired by the "universe of blue paint" and the subtle modulation and shades of color in Newman's Onement VI. The singularity of the Abstract Expressionists that she observed in work by Barnett Newman and Ad Reinhardt struck Truitt and sparked a turning point in her work.

Truitt's first wood sculpture, titled First (1961), resembles a picket fence. It consists of three white vertical boards which come to a point—the pickets—which are braced from behind by a white post and two rails. The pickets, post, and rails are all attached to and visually grounded by a white base. The forms contain memories of her past and her childhood geography, rather reflection of a "direct result of an empirical perception." First is a permeable memory of the idea of a fence, of all the fences Truitt has seen, instead of a fence modeled off of a specific image. During a period spent in Japan with her husband, who at the time was the Japan bureau chief for Newsweek, she created aluminum sculptures from 1964 to 1967. Before her first retrospective in New York she decided she did not like the works and destroyed them.

The sculptures that made her significant to the development of Minimalism were aggressively plain and painted structures, often large. Fabricated from wood and painted with monochromatic layers of acrylic, they often resemble sleek, rectangular columns or pillars. Truitt produces in scale drawings of her structures that are then produced by a cabinetmaker. The structures are weighed to the ground and are often hollow, allowing the wood to breathe in changing temperatures. She applies gesso to prime the wood and then up to 40 coats of acrylic paint, alternating brushstrokes between horizontal and vertical directions and sanding between layers. The artist sought to remove any trace of her brush, sanding down each layer of paint between applications and creating perfectly finished planes of colour. The layers of paint build up a surface with tangible depth. Additionally, the palpable surface of paint conveys Truitt's ever-present sense of geography in the alternating vertical and horizontal paint strokes, which mirror the latitude and longitude of an environment. Her process combined "the immediacy of intuition, the remove of prefabrication, and the intimacy of laborious handwork." The recessed platforms under her sculptures raised them just enough off the ground to appear to float on a thin line of shadow. The boundary between sculpture and ground, between gravity and verticality, was made illusory. This formal ambivalence is mirrored by her insistence that color itself, for instance, contained a psychological vibration which when purified, as it is on a work of art, isolates the event it refers to as a thing rather than a feeling. The event becomes a work of art, a visual sensation delivered by color. The Arundel series of paintings, begun in 1973, features barely visible graphite lines and accumulations of white paint on white surfaces. In the custard-color Ice Blink (1989), a tiny sliver of red at the bottom of the painting is enough to set up perspectival depth, as is a single bar of purple at the bottom of the otherwise sky-blue Memory (1981). Begun around 2001, the Piths, canvases with deliberately frayed edges and covered in thick black strokes of paint, indicate Truitt's interest in forms that blur the lines between two and three dimensions.

At her first show at André Emmerich's gallery, Truitt exhibited six works of hand-painted poplar structures, including Ship-Lap, Catawba, Tribute, Platte, and Hardcastle. André Emmerich would go on to be her longtime dealer. Truitt was introduced to Emmerich through Kenneth Noland, who Emmerich also represented. In accounts of her first solo show, one can see the chauvinistic undertones that were present in the 1960s New York art world. Greenberg, Rubin, and Noland chose Truitt's work to exhibit and organized the placement of the show without any input from Truitt herself. They often referred to her as the “gentle wife of James Truitt” and Emmerich encouraged Truitt to drop her first name to conceal her gender, in the hopes that this would help the exhibition's reception. After her first solo show, Greenberg declared in his essay "Recentness of Sculpture" (1967) that Truitt's work "anticipated" minimalist art. Greenberg's statement is sensationalist as Judd, Robert Morris, and Dan Flavin had showed their work prior to hers.

Truitt's drawings are not often remembered when considering her body of work. For much of the 1950s, Truitt worked in pencil, acrylic, and ink to create not only studies for later sculptures, but drawings that existed independently as works of art. Truitt is also known for three books she wrote, Daybook, Turn, and Prospect, all journals. In Prospect, her third volume of reflections, Truitt set out to reconsider her "whole experience as an artist"—and also as a daughter, mother, grandmother, teacher and lifelong seeker. For many years she was associated with the University of Maryland, College Park, where she was a professor, and the artists' colony Yaddo, where she served as interim president.

Truitt died on December 23, 2004, at Sibley Memorial Hospital in Washington, D.C., of complications following abdominal surgery. She was survived by three children and eight grandchildren, among them writer Charles Finch. Her daughter Mary Truitt Hill was married to the art critic Charlie Finch (1953/1954-2022) and they are in turn the parents of the aforementioned Charles.

Legacy
Fielding, H. (2011) Multiple Moving Perceptions of the Real: Arendt, Merleau-Ponty, and Truitt (pages 518–534) This paper explores the ethical insights provided by Anne Truitt's minimalist sculptures, as viewed through the phenomenological lenses of Hannah Arendt's investigations into the co-constitution of reality and Maurice Merleau-Ponty's investigations into perception. Artworks in their material presence can lay out new ways of relating and perceiving. Truitt's works accomplish this task by revealing the interactive motion of our embodied relations and how material objects can actually help to ground our reality and hence human potentiality. Merleau-Ponty shows how our prereflective bodies allow incompossible perceptions to coexist. Yet this same capacity of bodies to gather multiple perceptions together also lends itself to the illusion that we see from only one perspective. If an ethical perspective becomes reified into one position, it then becomes detached from reality, and the ethical potential is actually lost. At the same time, phenomenologically understood, the real world does not exist in terms of static matter, but is instead a web of contextual relations and meanings. An ethics that does not take embodied relations into account—that allows for only one perspective—ultimately loses its capacity for flexibility, and for being part of a common and shared reality.

Exhibitions
Truitt's first one-person exhibition was at the André Emmerich Gallery, New York, in February 1963, and in many senses her work also hews to what was emerging there. Her work was included in the 1964 exhibition, "Black, White, and Gray," at the Wadsworth Atheneum in Hartford, Ct, arguably the first exhibition of Minimal work. She was one of only three women included in the influential 1966 exhibition, Primary Structures at the Jewish Museum in New York. Her work has since been the subject of one-person exhibitions at the Whitney Museum of American Art, New York (1973); the Corcoran Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C. (1974); and the Baltimore Museum of Art (1974, 1992). In 2009, the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Washington, D.C., organized an acclaimed retrospective of her work, including 49 sculptures and 35 paintings and drawings. "In the Tower: Anne Truitt" was on view at the National Gallery of Art from Nov. 19, 2017 to April 1, 2018.

Works in collections
Arizona

 * Summer Treat, 1968, University of Arizona Museum of Art, Tucson

District of Columbia

 * Keep, 1962, Smithsonian American Art Museum, Washington
 * Insurrection, 1962, Corcoran Gallery of Art, Washington; acquired in 2014 by the National Gallery of Art
 * Flower, 1969, Corcoran Gallery of Art, Washington; acquired in 2015 by the National Gallery of Art
 * Arundel XI, 1971, National Gallery of Art, Washington
 * Summer Dryad, 1971, National Museum of Women in the Arts, Washington
 * Mid-Day, 1972, National Gallery of Art, Washington
 * Spume, 1972, National Gallery of Art, Washington
 * 13 October 1973, 1973, Hirschhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Washington
 * Sand Morning, 1973, National Gallery of Art, Washington
 * 17th Summer, 1974, Smithsonian American Art Museum, Washington
 * Night Naiad, 1977, Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Washington
 * Parva XII, 1977, National Gallery of Art, Washington
 * Summer Remembered, 1981, National Gallery of Art
 * Twining Court II, 2002, National Gallery of Art

Maryland

 * Ship-Lap, 1962, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Watauga, 1962, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Whale's Eye, 1969, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Three, 1962, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * A Wall for Apricots, 1968, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Meadow Child, 1969, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Odeskalki, 1963/82, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Parva IV, 1974, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Lea, 1962, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Carson, 1963, Baltimore Museum of Art, Baltimore
 * Moon Lily, 1988, Academy Art Museum, Easton
 * Summer '88 No. 25, 1988, Academy Art Museum, Easton
 * Hesperides, 1989, Academy Art Museum, Easton
 * Summer '96 No. 26. 1996, Academy Art Museum, Easton

Michigan

 * 2 Feb '78, 1978, University of Michigan Museum of Art, Ann Arbor
 * Sandcastle, 1984, University of Michigan Museum of Art, Ann Arbor

Minnesota

 * Australian Spring, 1972, Walker Art Center, Minneapolis

Missouri

 * Morning Choice, 1968, St. Louis Art Museum, St. Louis
 * Prima, 1978, Mildred Lane Kemper Art Museum, St. Louis

Nebraska

 * Still, 1999, Sheldon Memorial Art Gallery, University of Nebraska, Lincoln

New York

 * Sentinel, 1978, Albright-Knox Art Gallery, Buffalo
 * Carolina Noon, Michael C. Rockefeller Arts Center, New York
 * Catawba, 1962, Museum of Modern Art, New York
 * Twining Court I, 2001, Museum of Modern Art, New York
 * Untitled, 1962, Museum of Modern Art, New York
 * Desert Reach, 1971, Whitney Museum of American Art, New York

North Carolina

 * Night Wing, 1972–78, Mint Museum, Charlotte
 * Stone South No. 36, 1975, North Carolina Museum of Art, Raleigh

Virginia

 * Signal, 1978, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond, Richmond

Wisconsin

 * Summer Sentinel, 1963–72, Milwaukee Art Museum, Milwaukee

title: Anne Truitt


text: Category:NATO

title: Category:NATO


text:
American Folklife Center

The American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. was created by Congress in 1976 "to preserve and present American Folklife". The center includes the Archive of Folk Culture, established at the library in 1928 as a repository for American folk music. The center and its collections have grown to encompass all aspects of folklore and folklife worldwide.

Collections
The 20th century has been called the age of documentation. Folklorists and other ethnographers have taken advantage of each succeeding technology, from Thomas Edison's wax-cylinder recording machine (invented in 1877) to the latest digital audio equipment, to record the voices and music of many regional, ethnic, and cultural groups in the United States and around the world. Much of this documentation has been assembled and preserved in the center's Archive of Folk Culture, which founding head Robert Winslow Gordon called "a national project with many workers". Today the center is working on digital preservation, Web access, and archival management.

The center's archive has about 6 million items, 400,000 of which are sound recordings.

The center's collections include American folk music and folklife recordings collected by John Lomax and his son Alan Lomax; Native American song and dance; ancient English ballads; the tales of "Bruh Rabbit", told in the Gullah dialect of the Georgia Sea Islands; the stories of ex-slaves, told while still vivid in their minds; an Appalachian fiddle tune heard on concert stages around the world; a Cambodian wedding in Lowell, Massachusetts; a Saint Joseph's Day Table tradition in Pueblo, Colorado; Balinese Gamelan music recorded shortly before the Second World War; documentation from the lives of cowboys, farmers, fishermen, coal miners, shop keepers, factory workers, quilt makers, professional and amateur musicians, and housewives from throughout the U.S., first-hand accounts of community events from every state; and international collections.

The images, sounds, written accounts, moving image recordings, and more items of cultural documentation are available to researchers at the center's Archive of Folk Culture and through online presentations on the Library's web site. There, more than 4,000 collections, assembled over the years from "many workers", embody American traditional life and the cultural life of communities from many regions of the world. Collections in the archive include material from all 50 states, United States trusts, territories and the District of Columbia. Most of these areas have been served by the center's cultural surveys, equipment loan program, publications and other projects. The current director is Elizabeth "Betsy" Peterson.

title: American Folklife Center


text:
James McLene

James McLene (October 11, 1730 – March 18, 1806) was an American farmer and political leader from Franklin County, Pennsylvania. He was a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress in 1779 and 1780.

Biography
At the state level, McLene served as a delegate to the Pennsylvania state constitutional convention in 1776 and again in 1789, a number of terms in the state legislature, and briefly as Speaker, during the British occupation of Philadelphia. Following his terms in the Continental Congress, he served on Pennsylvania's Supreme Executive Council until the conclusion of the war.

His early efforts at the Carpenter's Hall Council (Philadelphia, 1776), shortly before the signing of the Declaration of Independence, were instrumental in marshaling Pennsylvania's resolve to support the Flying Camp of the Continental Army.

Death and interment
McLene died in Antrim Township in Franklin County on March 18, 1806 and was buried in the Brown's Mill Graveyard there.

title: James McLene


text:
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title: User:Eckhart Wörner~enwiki/monobook.css


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Barrier Bay

Barrier Bay is an open bay in the Antarctic coastal angle formed by the coast and the western end of the West Ice Shelf. Charted by Norwegian cartographers from aerial photographs taken by the Lars Christensen Expedition, 1936–1937, and named by them Barrierevika (Barrier Bay). Barrier is an obsolete term for ice shelf.

title: Barrier Bay


text: Talk:Barrier Bay

title: Talk:Barrier Bay


text:
Jansky (crater)

Jansky is a lunar impact crater that lies along the eastern limb of the Moon. It was named after American physicist Karl Jansky. It lies due east of the larger walled plain Neper, along the southern edge of the Mare Marginis. Due to its location, this crater is viewed from the side from Earth, limiting the amount of detail that can be observed. The visibility is also affected by libration, which can completely conceal this formation from view.

This is a worn crater with an eroded rim. The southern part of the rim in particular is disrupted and irregular in form, with a pair of small craters along the inner wall. The remainder of the rim is roughly circular. The interior floor is relatively featureless, except for a few small craters.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Jansky.

title: Jansky (crater)


text:
Nilgiri wood pigeon

The Nilgiri wood pigeon (Columba elphinstonii) is large pigeon found in the moist deciduous forests and sholas of the Western Ghats in southwestern India. They are mainly frugivorous and forage in the canopy of dense hill forests. They are best identified in the field by their large size, dark colours and the distinctive checkerboard pattern on their nape.

Description
This pigeon appears dark grey and a black and white patterned patch made of white tipped stiff feathers on the back of the neck is distinctive. The mantle is chestnut. The male has a paler grey crown while the female has a darker grey crown with a pale throat. The most confusable other species is the mountain imperial pigeon but that species has paler underwing coverts. The feet and the base of the bill are red.

The species is evolutionarily close to the Ceylon woodpigeon Columba torringtoni and the ashy wood pigeon Columba pulchricollis which form a clade that is basal within the Old World genus Columba. The binomial commemorates Mountstuart Elphinstone (1779–1859).

Distribution
The species is mainly found along the Western Ghats and in the Nilgiri Hills. Although found mainly in the hills, it is sometimes seen at lower elevations within the Western Ghats. A few relict populations survive on the high elevations hills of the peninsula such as the Biligirirangan Hills and Nandi Hills near Bangalore.

Behaviour and ecology
Nilgiri wood pigeons are usually seen singly, in pairs or in small groups, feeding almost entirely in the trees but sometimes descending to the ground to forage on fallen fruits. Although feeding mainly on fruits they have been recorded taking small snails and other invertebrates. The breeding season is March to July during which time they make a flimsy platform of twigs and lay a single white egg which is usually visible from below the nest. They feed on large fruit and may play an important role in dispersal of the seeds of many forest trees. Fruit of the family Lauraceae are particularly favoured and most of their food is gathered by gleaning on the outer twigs of the middle and upper canopy. They have been recorded ingesting soil that may provide mineral nutrients or aid digestion. They often make movements within the forest according to the fruiting seasons of their favourite trees. Their call is a loud langur-like low-frequency hooting "who" followed by a series of deep "who-who-who" notes.

title: Nilgiri wood pigeon


text:
The Chambers Brothers

The Chambers Brothers is an American psychedelic soul band, best known for their eleven-minute 1968 psychedelic soul hit "Time Has Come Today". The group was part of the wave of new music that integrated American blues and gospel traditions with modern psychedelic and rock elements. Their music has been kept alive through frequent use in film soundtracks. There were four brothers, though other musicians were also in the group.

Early career
Originally from Carthage, Mississippi, the Chambers Brothers first honed their skills as members of the choir in their Baptist church. This arrangement ended in 1952 when the eldest brother, George, was drafted into the Army. George relocated to Los Angeles after his discharge, and his brothers soon joined him. Beginning in 1954, the foursome played gospel and folk music throughout the Southern California region, but remained little known until 1965 when they began performing in New York City.

Consisting of George (September 26, 1931 – October 12, 2019) on washtub bass (later on bass guitar Danelectro and Gibson Thunderbird), Lester (b. April 13, 1940) on harmonica, and Willie (b. March 3, 1938) and Joe (b. August 22, 1942) on guitar, the group started to venture outside the gospel circuit, playing at coffeehouses that booked folk acts. They played at places like The Ash Grove, a very popular Los Angeles folk club. It became one of their favorite haunts and brought them into contact with Hoyt Axton, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Reverend Gary Davis, and Barbara Dane. When Dane spotted the brothers there, she knew they would be perfect to do these freedom songs that people wanted to hear then. Dane became a great supporter, performing and recording with the brothers. With the addition of Brian Keenan (January 28, 1943 – October 5, 1985) on drums, Dane took them on tour with her and introduced them to Pete Seeger, who helped put the Chambers Brothers on the bill of the 1965 Newport Folk Festival. One of the songs they performed, "I Got It", appeared on the Newport Folk Festival 1965 compilation LP, which was issued on the Vanguard label.

They were becoming more accepted in the folk community, but, like many on the folk circuit, were looking to electrify their music and develop more of a rock and roll sound. Joe Chambers recalled in a May 1994 Goldmine article that people at the Newport Folk Festival were breaking down fences and rushing to the stage. "Newport had never seen or heard anything like that." After the group finished and the crowd finally settled down, the MC came up and said "Whether you know it or not, that was rock 'n' roll." That night they played at a post-concert party for festival performers and went to a recording session of the newly electrified Bob Dylan. Shortly after appearing at Newport, the group released its debut album, People Get Ready.

The group recorded "All Strung Out Over You" which was composed by Rudy Clark. It was released on Columbia 4-43957 on December 19, 1966. It was rushed out by Columbia after the label had rejected an early version of "Time Has Come Today". "All Strung Out Over You" became a regional hit for the group which gave them the opportunity to re-record "The Time Has Come Today".

"Time Has Come Today"
The band scored its only major hit in the fall of 1968 with "Time Has Come Today", an 11-minute opus written by Joe and Willie Chambers and highlighted by echoing vocal effects and Keenan's drumming which gave the song a psychedelic feel. "Time Has Come Today" was edited for release as a single and spent five consecutive weeks in September–October at #11 on the Billboard Hot 100, just missing the Top Ten.

Later years
Later incarnations of the group included session guitarist Steve Hunter (known for his work with Alice Cooper) An album recorded in 1972 for Columbia, ''Oh! My God'', has remained unreleased until October 28, 2022, when it was finally made available through multiple digital platforms. Although the group disbanded in 1972, they reformed and moved from Columbia to Avco Records and released Unbonded (1974) and Right Move (1975). In 1976 the brothers released Recorded Live In Concert on Mars for the Roxbury label. They have toured irregularly since.

They were signed to support Maria Muldaur on her Gospel Nights album. They also made commercials for Levi's Jeans.

Lester moved to New York and formed a band with former Electric Flag bassist Harvey Brooks. Guitarists Willie and Joe would find work as session men; George went back to singing gospel music and would later become a deacon of his church. Keenan retired to Stamford, Connecticut where he set up his own recording studio, and died of heart failure in 1985

Lee Szymborski, an American session drummer who also was from Stamford Connecticut, was hired by George Chambers to replace Brian Keenan in 1980, in Los Angeles, CA., and performed live with The Chambers Brothers at the Hollywood Bowl's Fourth Annual Survival Sunday Anti-Nuclear Benefit Concert, with Bruce Springsteen, Jackson Browne, Stephen Stills, Bonnie Raitt, Graham Nash, Gary U.S. Bonds, Peter Yarrow, Kenny Rankin and others in Los Angeles, CA. on June 14, 1981. Lee Szymborski also performed live with The Chambers Brothers and Etta James for two shows at McCabe's Guitar Shop, 3101 Pico Blvd. Santa Monica, CA. July 16, 1981. Lee Szymborski left The Chambers Brothers and joined the critically acclaimed Louisiana Cajun group; "The Savery Brothers" in San Diego, CA.; also playing recording sessions notably with Legendary Country Music Artists Merle Haggard, Doug Kershaw, Johnny Paycheck, Asleep at the Wheel, and Juice Newton. Lee Szymborski currently records and performs in Las Vegas, Nevada.

In 2006, guitarist Willie Chambers sat in with a group called Vince and the Invincibles at a benefit concert for Arthur Lee of the group Love and delivered an acclaimed performance.

In 2015, Joe Chambers was appearing at venues such as Harold's Place on Pacific Ave. San Pedro as The Joe Chambers Experience.

In 2016, Willie, Joe and, occasionally, George, along with their nephew Jerry Warner on bass, Crazy Tomes on guitar, and L.A. drummer Jon McCracken, reformed as the Chambers Brothers to do shows in the Los Angeles area; including the Grammy Museum at L.A. Live.

George Chambers died October 12, 2019, at age 88.

Joe Chambers collaborated with Marva Holiday, recording their version of "To Love Somebody".

Summer of Soul
In 2021, the Chambers Brothers appeared in the Questlove music documentary "Summer of Soul," about the 1969 Harlem Cultural Festival.

Members
In 1970, there was some confusion whether The Chambers Brothers were still with their label, Columbia. The source was an article in the March 28, 1970 issue of Record World. Apparently, singer Judd Hamilton was at a party for an American International Records signing and there was confusion about the Chambers Brothers signing to the label and whether or not Hamilton was a member of the group. The next issue of Record World, (April 4) clarified that The Chambers Brothers were not with the American International label and were still with Columbia Records. It also stated that Hamilton was not a member of The Chambers Brothers.

There was another error, this time by Cashbox magazine, in the April 18 issue. Cliff Chambers who had his own label Cyclone Records and composed “Finders Keepers” and “Somebody Ought to Write a Book” was credited with being a member of The Chambers Brothers while he was signing a contract with Kent Records. The error was picked up and Cashbox wrote in the May 9 issue (Cliff Chambers Not Ex-Chambers) that the group's manager, Charles H. LaMarr said that Cliff Chambers was never a member of the group and that the Chambers' included Joseph Chambers, George Chambers, Willie Chambers and Brian Keenan.

John Castellano joined the band as a guitarist, touring with them during 1971 and 1972. This came about as a result of the brothers finding out that Castellano's mother made the clothes that Jimi Hendrix wore. They headed out to Bath Avenue, in Brooklyn to have the clothes fitted and heard Castellano playing on guitar. Eventually Castellano came on board.

Studio albums

 * The Time Has Come (1967) – US Pop Albums No. 4, US Black Albums No. 6
 * A New Time – A New Day (1968) – US Pop Albums No. 16, US Black Albums No. 24
 * Feelin' the Blues (7/1969)
 * New Generation (1971) – US Pop Albums No. 145, US Black Albums No. 36
 * Unbonded (1974) – US Pop Albums No. 144
 * Right Move (1975)

Live albums

 * People Get Ready (1966)
 * Now! (1967)
 * Shout (1968)
 * Love, Peace and Happiness/Live at Bill Graham's Fillmore East (1969) – US Pop Albums No. 58, US Black Albums No. 17
 * Live in Concert on Mars (1976)
 * Live Fillmore West 65 (2004)
 * Live (2005)

Unreleased album

 * Oh, My God! (1972) – released on multiple digital platforms on October 28, 2022

Compilations

 * Groovin' Time (1968)
 * Chambers Brothers' Greatest Hits [Double Album] (1970) – US Pop Albums No. 193
 * Greatest Hits (1971) – US Pop Albums No. 166
 * The Best of the Chambers Brothers [Double Album] (1973)
 * The Time Has Come / A New Time – A New Day [2 on 1 Album] (1975)
 * Greatest Hits (1988)
 * Goin Uptown (1995)
 * Time Has Come: Best of The Chambers Brothers (1996)
 * Time (1998)
 * Now/People Get Ready [2 on 1 CD] (1999)

Collaborations

 * Barbara Dane and The Chambers Brothers (1966)
 * Mike Bloomfield: From His Head to His Heart to His Hands (incl. Tombstone Blues - Alternate Chambers Brothers Version, with Bob Dylan)
 * The Four Sides of Buzzy Linhart – Buzzy Linhart (1982, EP)

Reviews

 * The Time Has Come Today, review by Paul Hollingsworth
 * Your Top 20 Favorite Psychedelic Songs of All-Time
 * The Chambers Brothers Shout!
 * Chambers Brothers' Time Has Come Today Once Again

title: The Chambers Brothers