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You Only Move Twice

"You Only Move Twice" is the second episode of the eighth season of the American animated television series The Simpsons. It first aired on the Fox network in the United States on November 3, 1996. The episode, based on a story idea by Greg Daniels, has three major concepts: the family moves to a new town; Homer starts to work for a friendly, sympathetic boss; and that boss, unbeknownst to Homer, is a supervillain. Bart, Lisa and Marge each have individual secondary storylines. John Swartzwelder wrote the episode, which was directed by Mike B. Anderson.

The episode's title is a reference to the James Bond film You Only Live Twice. Many elements of the episode parody the James Bond films, with a character modeled after Bond making a brief appearance. Setting the second and third acts in a new town, Cypress Creek, required the animators to create entirely new layouts and background designs. Albert Brooks, in his fourth appearance on The Simpsons, guest stars as the voice of Hank Scorpio, one of the most popular one-time characters in the entire series. The episode has received critical acclaim. IGN named "You Only Move Twice" the best episode of the eighth season and Albert Brooks as one of the best guest stars in the history of the show.

Plot
Smithers is offered a job at the Globex Corporation but turns it down. Being the next-longest tenured employee of the plant, Homer gets the job. He informs his family that the new job pays better but involves them moving to Cypress Creek. The family initially opposes the move, but they watch a video about the planned community and, seeing that it is much nicer than Springfield, agree to move there. Abandoning their house, the Simpsons pack up and leave town.

In Cypress Creek, Homer's new boss, Hank Scorpio, stops by the family's new house to introduce himself. Scorpio takes a shine to Homer and makes him the chief motivator in the nuclear division. Meanwhile, Bart starts school, but he soon finds that his new class is far above the standards of Springfield Elementary and is sent to a remedial education class. Lisa goes for a nature walk and discovers she is allergic to all the wildlife around Cypress Creek. Marge tries to go about her daily chores, but discovers that the house has an automated system to do chores for her. Marge loses her sense of purpose and begins drinking wine.

On Homer's first day at work, Scorpio gives him a tour of the company and listens with interest to his secret dream of owning the Dallas Cowboys football team. He tells Homer that his dream may come true someday. Homer does an excellent job of motivating his team. During a meeting with Homer, Scorpio excuses himself, turns to a screen, and threatens the United Nations Security Council by saying they have 72 hours to deliver an unspecified amount of gold or face the consequences via a doomsday device. He promptly blows up the 59th Street Bridge as a show of truth. Homer remains oblivious to Scorpio's supervillainous tendencies, which include work on the aforementioned doomsday device and attempting to kill his arch-nemesis, Mr. Bont, with a laser. Bont escapes, Homer tackles him, and Scorpio praises Homer. Scorpio's guards fatally shoot Bont.

At dinner, Homer proudly tells the family how well he is doing at work, but he discovers they hate Cypress Creek and want to return to Springfield. Dejected, Homer visits Scorpio for advice while the United States Army Special Forces assault Globex HQ. Scorpio advises Homer to do what's best for his family. Scorpio straps on a flamethrower and holds his ground while Homer sadly walks away, kicking a grenade in the process. The next day, the family returns to Springfield, and Homer receives the Denver Broncos as a present from Scorpio, who has successfully managed to seize the East Coast of the United States.

Production
The episode's original concept came from a story idea by Greg Daniels. The writing staff came up with three major concepts. The first involves the Simpson family moving away from Springfield. The writers initially hoped the audience would be fooled into thinking the move was permanent. As a result, they tried to work in as many characters during the episode's first act to make it seem that the family was really leaving. The second involved Homer getting a new job with an employee-friendly boss—in stark contrast to the tyrannical Mr. Burns. The third was that Homer's new boss would be a supervillain resembling Ernst Stavro Blofeld. This element was meant to be in the background, unbeknownst to Homer.

The writers sought to give every family member their own story. They spent some time arguing over whether to include the depressing idea of Marge becoming an alcoholic in the episode. There was originally another idea involving Grampa Simpson. He is left behind in Springfield and receives recorded greeting phone calls from the family. The plot went on for four sequences, all of which were cut from the episode because of time constraints but were later included in the DVD release.

The show's writers did not worry too much about perfecting Scorpio's lines because they knew Albert Brooks, who was voice acting the character, would rewrite or ad lib most of them. Entire sections of Scorpio's dialogue such as his hammock speech are Brooks's lines, not the writers'. Dan Castellaneta described how, after he prepared something for Homer to say in response to Brooks' new Scorpio lines, Brooks would deliver totally different lines on the next take. Josh Weinstein said Homer's reactions are exactly like those of someone talking to Albert Brooks. In all, his recordings were over two hours long.

For "about a week", he was to reprise the role of Scorpio for The Simpsons Movie, but the staff felt that a new character was a better idea and created the character of Russ Cargill for Brooks to voice.

The animators needed to design completely new sets for the episode. Christian Roman, John Reiss and Mike Anderson storyboarded the episode. In the original animatic, Santa's Little Helper and Snowball II were not present, so the animators went back and added them, even though they are not a part of the story. It is a common misconception that Scorpio's design was modeled after Richard Branson. The final design, which underwent an overhaul, was hailed by the writers as "the perfect madman". All the students in Bart's remedial class were initially given hair modeled on Ralph Wiggum's, but the staff felt that the children looked "kinda troubled", so their designs were altered.

Mr. Bont, the man Homer tackles, was initially supposed to be James Bond, but Fox would not let the writers use the name because of concerns over possible lawsuits. They finally decided on "Bont" because it was the most similar name they could legally use.

Cultural references
The final scene at Globex contains several references to action and James Bond films. The episode's title and many references are from the Bond film You Only Live Twice, as well as an allusion to A View to a Kill. Homer tackles and inadvertently helps get a character modeled after Sean Connery's Bond killed, following a parody of the laser scene from Goldfinger. Miss Goodthighs from the 1967 James Bond parody Casino Royale makes an appearance in the episode. She can be seen attacking a character modeled after U.S. Army General Norman Schwarzkopf.

At the beginning of the episode, Waylon Smithers hums "I work for Monty Burns, M-M-M-M-M-M-Monty Burns" to the tune of "Hooray for Hollywood".

The sign at the elementary school displays. Weinstein called it "one of the show's most obviously dated jokes" because the idea of a school having its own website was almost a novelty in 1996.

The song at the end of the show, written by Ken Keeler, is a parody of various Bond themes. Keeler originally wrote it to be three seconds longer and sound more like the Goldfinger theme, but the final version was shorter and the lyrics were sped up. The writers wanted the song to be sung by Shirley Bassey, who sang several Bond themes, but they could not get her to record the part.

Homer's disappointment at being given the Denver Broncos in lieu of the Dallas Cowboys was a reference to the Cowboys' success at the time. When the episode was aired, the Cowboys had won a then-record five Super Bowls and were the defending Super Bowl champions while the Broncos had yet to win a league title; moreover, the American Football Conference of which the Broncos were part had not won the Super Bowl since the 1983 season. Ironically, in real life the Broncos have been the far more successful team since the episode was aired, appearing in four Super Bowls and winning three. In contrast, the Cowboys have not appeared in the Super Bowl since 1996. Since Homer Simpson took "ownership" of the Broncos in this episode, as of January 2023, the team has not lost to the Dallas Cowboys. In the seven games that the two teams have played since this episode aired, the Broncos are 7-0, outscoring the Cowboys by a combined score of 232-159.

Reception

After its original broadcast, "You Only Move Twice" finished 50th in the Nielsen ratings for the week of October 28 – November 3, 1996, with a rating of 8.5, equivalent to approximately 8.2 million viewing households. It was the second highest-rated show on the Fox network that week, following The X-Files.

Since airing, the epsidoe has received universal acclaim from fans and television critics. In 2006, IGN named Brooks The Simpsons' best guest star citing Scorpio as his best role. The Phoenix.com also placed Brooks at the top of their best guest voices list of Simpsons characters. In his book Planet Simpson, author Chris Turner says Brooks is second only to Phil Hartman among the show's guest stars writing that he "brings hilarious satirical seamlessness to Scorpio's paradoxical nature". He believes the delivery of Scorpio's final line—"But Homer, on your way out if you wanna kill somebody, it would help me a lot."—seals Brooks's place in The Simpsons' history. The Simpson family's new street address, 15201 Maple Systems Road, is writer Ken Keeler's favorite street name in the show.

IGN also picked the episode as the best of the eighth season, saying it "is a wonderful example of slowly building up the comedy it's impossible to fathom this one not being very high up on any list of the best Simpsons episodes of all time." Reviewer Robert Canning gave the episode a "Masterful" score of ten out of ten, saying the episode "may well be the greatest Simpsons episode of all time". Warren Martyn and Adrian Wood, authors of the book I Can't Believe It's a Bigger and Better Updated Unofficial Simpsons Guide, called it "a tremendous episode" saying it has "some really good moments, most of them involving Bart, Lisa, and Marge's loathing for Cypress Creek. The remedial kids are fab (especially Warren), and Lisa's second chipmunk encounter is inspired. Scorpio is a good character, especially his Christopher Walken-esque killing spree." They named the owl grabbing the chipmunk during Lisa's trip to the forest one of the greatest sight gags in the show's history. Chris Turner also felt that the remedial boy Gordy's line may be "the broadest parody of a Canadian accent in the history of American pop culture". Ben Rayner of the Toronto Star included "You Only Move Twice" on his list of the best episodes of The Simpsons. In his review of The Complete Eighth Season DVD set, Raul Burriel described it as one of the "most clever episodes the series has ever given us". Entertainment.ie named it among the 10 greatest Simpsons episodes of all time. In 2019, Consequence of Sound ranked it number seven on its list of top 30 Simpsons episodes. In 2020, Al Jean acknowledged "You Only Move Twice" as an episode many consider to be a favorite. In The A.V. Club, Erik Adams called it one of the best episodes of the season. He praises the climactic scene: "It's as good an approximation of this type of James Bond sequence as you'll see outside of the first Austin Powers movie, with the added twist that Homer's resignation holds our attention better than any cauldron of scalding-hot green liquids. Character and relationship holds sway—even when one of those characters is strapping on a flamethrower."

title: You Only Move Twice


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Pedro (card game)

Pedro is an American trick-taking card game of the all fours family based on auction pitch. Its most popular variant is known as cinch, double Pedro or high five which was developed in Denver, Colorado, around 1885 and soon regarded as the most important American member of the all fours family. Although it went out of fashion with the rise of auction bridge, it is still widely played on the western coast of the United States and in its southern states, being the dominant game in some locations in Louisiana. Forms of the game have been reported from Nicaragua, the Azores, Niobe NY, Italy, and Finland. The game is primarily played by four players in fixed partnerships, but can also be played by 2–6 individual players.

Pedro uses a regular pack of 52 cards, but some variants add a joker called the Dom, hence the name Dom Pedro. The game is much simpler than pitch, in that all points are awarded to the winners of the tricks containing certain specific cards. This includes the game point, which goes to the winner of the trump ten. The winner of the Pedro (five of trumps) receives 5 points. In cinch or Double Pedro the same holds for the Left Pedro (off-five), which counts as a trump. The practice of making sure to win a trick that contains a high-scoring card is referred to as cinching.

Cinch (double Pedro, high five)
The following rules are based on Foster's Complete Hoyle of 1897 and are very similar to the modern Bicycle rules.

The game is played with a standard pack of 52 cards. The cards are ranked in the usual order, from aces, kings, queens etc. down to twos. As a special case, the off-Pedro, i.e. the non-trump five which is of the same color as trumps, is for all purposes considered to be a member of the trump suit ranking between the Pedro (five of trumps) and the four of trumps.

Like pitch, cinch is a point-trick game, i.e. for winning the trick play one needs to maximize the total value of the cards won in tricks, rather than the number of tricks won. But in cinch (and in Pedro in general) the original card-points were abolished in favor of directly assigning game points to the cards. As a result of this process, only six of the fourteen trumps carry card-values, while the plain suit cards do not score at all.

The first dealer is decided by cutting. The dealer shuffles the pack, and the player to the dealer's right cuts. Nine cards are dealt to each player in batches of three.

Beginning with the eldest hand, each player gets one chance to bid for the privilege of declaring the trump suit. A bid is the number of points that the bidder's party undertakes to win in the deal, the minimum bid being 1 or in some variations, 6. Each player must make a higher bid than any previous player, or pass. The highest possible bid is 14.

When the highest bidder has announced the trump suit, starting with eldest hand each player in turn discards at least three cards face up. The dealer fills each player's hand up to six cards. In the four-player partnership version the dealer's own hand is filled up by robbing the pack: The dealer chooses the cards freely from the remaining stock, and if any trumps remain in the stock discards them openly.

Any scoring trumps discarded by the opponents are counted for the highest bidder's party.

The highest bidder leads to the first trick and need not lead a trump. The standard rules for card play in trick-taking games hold, with one exception: It is always allowed to trump instead of following suit ("follow suit or trump"). As usual, the highest card of the suit led wins each trick, unless a trump is played, in which case the highest trump played wins. The winner of a trick leads to the next trick.

Both parties count the card-points in their tricks. If the bidding party keeps the contract, i.e. wins the required number of card-points, the party that won more card-points scores the difference. Otherwise the opponents score their own result plus the value of the bid.

Sixty-three
This variant of the four-player game combines King Pedro (very high card-value of 25 for the trump king) and Pedro Sancho (card-value of 9 for the trump nine), and also gives a card-value of 15 to a low trump, resulting in an overall score of 63 points in the pack. The game can be played with a Joker, in which case it is the lowest trump and scores 15. Otherwise the three of trumps scores 15. After the bidding, which can go over several rounds, each player is dealt 4 more cards. (Thus all cards are dealt or exactly one card remains, depending on whether the Joker is in use.) Players discard down to six cards as usual. The game is played for 152 points.

In eighty-three, a variant reported from Maine, the queen of trumps also has a card-value of 20. Players are dealt 12 cards each, leaving a kitty of 4–5 cards (depending on whether there is a joker). Minimum bid is 30, and the highest bidder receives the kitty. Players discard down to six cards, subject to the usual restrictions (no trumps, no scoring trumps). The first card led need not be a trump.

History
The original game of Pedro, which developed in the nineteenth century from auction pitch, did not have partnerships (so from four to seven could play). It also did not use the "off-suit" Pedro or have a second deal. There was only one round of bidding. In keeping with the game's descent from all fours, the ace of trumps was called "high", the two was called "low", and the ten was called "game". The nine of trumps, called "sancho", was worth nine points.

A variant called Dom Pedro or Snoozer counted the three of trumps as three points and used the joker, called the snoozer, which ranked as the lowest trump and counted fifteen points.

The modern games described above are based on a variant called Cinch, Double Pedro, or High Five, which arose in Denver, Colorado, around 1885. Cinch was usually played in partnerships and included the second pedro (called "left pedro") and the second deal (the dealer's part of which was called "robbing the pack"). The joker was not used and the nine and three did not count. The name came from the necessity for the third player to each trick to "cinch" it, that is, play a trump higher than the five (unless one had already been played to the trick) so the fourth player could not make a pedro.

In Jack London's short story "The Unexpected," the main characters spend the long winter evenings in Alaska playing "endless games of whist and pedro."

Around 1900, Cinch, Whist, and Euchre were the most popular card games for serious players, though auction bridge (introduced in 1904) replaced them. As of 1956, Cinch was still considered "one of the top-ranking games of skill". It had bidding conventions for the first bidder to give information to his or her partner, such as: with a pedro, bid 5; with an ace and three or four cards in the same suit, bid 6; with an ace-king, bid 7 (Morehead, Frey, and Mott-Smith 1956).

Variations
Most variations involve differences in the point assignments.

California Pedro
The players are each dealt nine cards, three at a time, after which bidding begins to the right of the dealer with the lowest possible bid being 6. If a player does not wish to bid, they "pass" the bid onto the next player. When the bidding comes back around to the dealer, the highest bid gets to call the suit. If a team does not make their bid their point total is negatively affected by the bid amount. When the suit has been called, players discard all non-suited cards (except the other five, or pedro, of the same color). Some play that a discarded trump can be grabbed by any player but I have seen rules that say no. This is to keep players from discarding low trump in hope of a better one. Also the 2 of trump stays with whomever has it. Making 16/32 very difficult. Then they are dealt the number of cards needed to reach 6. When the deal comes back around to the dealer, the dealer then sorts through the remaining deck and picks out the cards he needs to bring their hand up to 6. If there are more than 6 suited cards remaining in the deck, the dealer can take all of them but must reduce the number of cards in his hand to 5 on the first play. In order to win the game a team must have 52 or more points as well as claim and make the bid.

Also unique to California Pedro is that when a player bids 16 and makes the bid that total is doubled to equal 32 as a bonus, because it is so rare. One unofficial rule of California Pedro is no "table talk". In other words, no player is allowed to make subtle hints of his/her hand to their respective teammate in relation to their bid or potential play. There is no official penalty for "table talk" and it is loosely enforced at best.

One variation of California Pedro has the J worth 1 point. The total trump cards add up to 14.

Another variation of California Pedro allows a team to "Shoot [for] the moon." They must make a 14 point bet. If they don't take 14 points, they lose the game. If they do, they win the game. Often done when one team is down and the other team is about to win.

California Pedro can be enjoyed with wine, excessive arguing, and stubborn yet very strategic play. This variation is extremely popular in Southern Monterey County (King City, CA), Jackson, CA and Ferndale, CA.

Five-handed Pedro
Five-Handed Pedro is a variation whereby five people can play the game at once, with no dedicated partners. The game begins with the dealer dealing all but two cards in a clockwise fashion to each of the five players, for a total of ten cards each. The remaining two cards are set aside until later. Bidding commences from the dealer's left, with bids ranging from 6-16 points. The player who wins the bid is immediately given the two remaining deck cards, and must then call a trump suit. Players then discard, retaining all trump cards and any number of distrump cards necessary to arrive at a total of six cards in their hand. In the event a player has more than six trump, he or she retains all of his trump, playing the lowest non-point cards (3, 4, 6, etc.) concurrently with each hand until the extras are gone.

After the discard, the winning bidder places his lead card in the center of the table, and asks for another card not in his hand. The player who holds this card throws it into the center of the table, and these two are partners until the next deal, as are the remaining three players partners. Play then continues as in traditional Pedro, with the caller and partner needing to win enough points to equal their bet. Failure to do so results in a loss of points equal to the bet, regardless of any points earned during the hand.

Play continues until one player reaches 104 points.

Lipton variation (Canadian prairies)
A variation of the game commonly known as "King Pedro" is played in Saskatchewan, in the area of Regina but associated most strongly with the village of Lipton.

The Lipton variation uses a reduced deck of 32 cards, which includes all aces and face cards, but only the 10, 9, 5, and 2 from the numeric cards. All 4 players are dealt 7 cards each hand, with the remaining 4 cards left over forming a "missy" (similar to the kitty in the Sixty-Three variant above), from which the winning bidder may then pick up or discard as they choose (while maintaining a 7-card hand).

Bidding begins once all cards have been dealt. The minimum allowed bid is 15, and the maximum bid is 35—the maximum number of points that can be won in a hand. Traditionally, bidding starts with the player on the dealer’s left and proceeds in that direction, with the dealer bidding last.

Scoring is as in traditional Pedro, except that if the bidding party fails to meet their contract (known as being “set"), they lose a number of card-points equivalent to their original bid, while the opposing team gains the number of card-points taken in the course of the hand.  Play continues until one team reaches either 105 points, or -105 points (in which case the opposing team wins.)

The king is especially important in this variant of Pedro, and winning without it is very difficult. A player who wins a contract by bidding aggressively with few trump cards and then gains the needed cards from the missy is said to pull a "Bob Hays", a reference to a legendary player of King Pedro from Lipton who was well-known for bidding aggressively without a king, and then picking it up from the missy.

Isle Madame variation
In Isle Madame and surrounding areas on Cape Breton Island, (Province of Nova Scotia, Canada) the game is called Pede and is played in both French and English.

The point system is as follows: Total of 39 points.

The Isle Madame version is generally played with the following variations:
 * The joker is not used.
 * Bidding is from 25 to 39.
 * Sometimes players will bid without a king to lure the other team into bidding higher. This can be costly since the king is required to make any bid.
 * The dealer has an advantage since he does not discard. After all other players have received their second fill, the dealer mixes the remaining cards into his own nine cards and then sorts through all the cards.  Thus, no one knows how many trump the dealer had in his original nine cards.
 * No one can ever have more than six cards. If someone has more than six trump, they must discard non-scoring cards.  Should they have all seven point scoring cards, they must discard a card worth 1 point, usually the ten.
 * Winner of the bid must lead trump on the first trick (book). If they have no trump, they can play anything (rare).
 * When a nontrump ('offsuit') card is led, players must follow suit, unless they wish to play a trump. If they cannot follow suit, they may play anything.  The rank of nontrump is exactly the same as trump, with the Pede as the only exception.  Although the trick is worth nothing, it decides who leads the next card.  Thus, the nontrump cards that the dealer decides to keep might influence the outcome of the play.  Note that trump cards always take any nontrump cards.
 * When players run out of trump they may fold their hand by throwing it face down on the table. They are out of play for all remaining tricks of this round.
 * If the winners of the bid lose the king, this is referred to as the 'death' of the King since the score of the team that won the bid goes down significantly and the score of the other team goes up significantly.
 * Winner of the game is the first team to reach 221. When a team reaches any score over 199, their score is locked in place.  The only way that their score will change (including winning the game) is if they take the bid OR make the other team's bid.  If they make the other team's bid this is an automatic win at any score above 199.

Tennessee variation
In central Tennessee, the game is played as described above with a few variations in point cards, trump cards, and scoring.

 * Rules for first deal, bidding, second deal, and play are as described above.
 * More trump cards are defined, and a 54 card deck (standard with two jokers) is used. Both jokers, and the off-suit jack (same color as trumps) are defined to be trumps along with the suit called by the winning bidder.  One joker is deemed the "main joker" and the other is deemed the "off joker" – usually the joker with the small print describing the playing card manufacturer copyright and information is the "off joker".
 * The "keeper" rule does not apply to the 2.
 * Minimum bid is 9, or in some variations 10. If none of the three players bid, the dealer gets the bid for 9 or 10 - called a "push up".  Maximum bid is 17.  The minimum bid is at least 9, because it is more than half of 17.
 * The game is played to 52 points, thus forcing 4 hands (only 51 points can be scored in 3 hands).
 * In the event of a tie, with both teams having 52 points or more, the bidding team wins.
 * "Shooting the Moon" is sometimes allowed. To win the game, the team must capture all 17 points.  The team shooting the moon does not necessarily have to catch every trick.
 * If a team has a negative score, ("in the hole") then the first bidding player is required to "shoot the moon" and the second bidding player is required to "double shoot the moon". This situation forces the calling of trumps to the second player in the bidding rotation, on the team desiring to shoot the moon.
 * "Shooting the moon" is not necessarily allowed, depending on the rules established between players at the beginning of the game.
 * There is no rank among non-trump cards. Example:  spades are trumps, a 2 of hearts is led, no other player plays a trump card—the player playing the 2 of hearts catches the trick and plays first again, even if the ace of hearts is played by someone else on top of it.  Any trump card catches any non-trump card.
 * The cards that are left after the second deal are referred to as the "widow". If the bidder has 6 or more trumps after having sorted through the widow, he may slide trump or non-trump cards to his partner.  If receiving trumps causes the receiving partner to have more than 6 trumps, he then gives a trump card (usually of no value) to the opposing player to his right.
 * Players on the non-bidding-team may elect to give up and "throw in" or "throw down" to save time, thus awarding the team that won the bid all 17 points. Sliding non-trump cards can sometimes bluff the non-bidding team into giving up, when perhaps a point or two could have been captured.
 * In the (unlikely) event that a player on the non-bidding-team has more than 6 trumps, then he may slide to his partner as above.
 * A "misdeal" may be called if a player has no point cards during the first 9-card deal. A slight variation on this rule adds no point cards or face cards.
 * When a player runs out of trumps, he must state that they are "down" and discard the remaining part of his hand after the lead player plays on the next trick; even if non-trumps are led.
 * With a 54 card deck in use, there are 18 cards remaining for the second deal. The total number of cards held by the 3 players not winning the bid, will be the number of cards that the bidder gets in the widow.  If all 3 players call for 6 cards each - none has any trumps - then the bidder gets no widow.

Louisiana variation
Played primarily in South Louisiana, this variation uses a 52 card deck (no jokers). Whoever plays the 2 keeps that point for their team; no player may 'win' the 2. The most points a team can make in one hand is 14. A player may wish to bid 14-28 (often called 14 in the dark), but he must bid this before the cards are dealt. If the team makes all 14 points, they are rewarded with 28 points. The minimum bid is 7, and if no one bids, the dealer is allowed to bid 6 (commonly called the force bid), although in Southeastern Louisiana the force bid is often 7.

When a player is discarding their non trump cards into the trash pile and a trump card is mistakingly thrown out the trump card discarded is considered "fair game." Whichever individual who can first grab the erroneously discarded trump card is allowed to keep the card. Violence is allowed but frowned upon in these situations. If the new player in possession of the card is above the hand limit they must discard a card of their choice to stay within the limit. If the discarded trump is picked up before one has received their new cards from the dealer the phase carries on and the player reduces their hand to the limit.

Also, in this variation "cut-throat" may be played. "Cut Throat" Pedro, rules state that any card may be played when an off trump card leads the hand. You are only required to follow with the trump off card in the "follow suit" version. Also, if one player bids 14-28 then another player may bid 28-56. You can only bid 28-56 if another player first bids 14-28. Commonly, you must have both the ace and deuce to bid either 14-28 or 28-56, but this requirement may be disregarded in some house rules.

Railroad Pedro
This variation follows the same general rules as regular Pedro only with five players and six cards per player dealt on the first deal. After the bidding process and the second deal, the winning bidder must lead and call trump card that he or she does not have. The player holding that card must play it on the first trick. That player becomes partners with the bidder and the remaining three players are partners against the bidder and his or her partner. At the conclusion of the hand, each player is given the total number of points that their team won.

The winning bidder may also choose to "go alone" on any bid after the second deal. In this case no card is called for and the other four players become partners against the bidder. If the "alone" bid is successful the point totals for the hand are doubled for both sides. If the "alone" bid is not successful the bidder loses double the points that were bid while the opposition gains double their point total for the hand. The first player to reach 62 wins. In the event that both the bidder and his or her partner reach 62 on the same hand the bidder wins. If two members of the team opposing the bidder on the final hand pass 62 the player with the highest score wins. If they are tied the game will continue until the tie is broken.

Italian variation
16 points total for the hand, play until 91 points is reached. The winner must bid on the winning hand and will win upon reaching 91 points or higher on a bid, regardless of who has more points.

Finnish variation, Pidro
In Finland, the games is played in Swedish speaking Ostrobothnia, Finland.

The rules are almost like of the basic cinch described in this article, with major exception that only trumps are played. The other cards in players' hands are just for disguise, to make initial six for everyone. When a player runs out trumps, they place their remaining cards face up on the table and won't participate to remaining tricks.

This leads to somewhat different game dynamics compared to North American Cinch: All partnership cooperation must take place early, at the third or fourth trick at latest. At fourth trick, at least one player has run out of trumps. At fifth trick, there will be two players remaining at most. This means, a person with many but not very good trumps may still be able to win points for the team by leaving scoring cards to the last tricks, of which they are the only participant.

Monterey County variation(s)
On the Central Coast of California, specifically in Monterey County, two versions of Pedro are played, "draw Pedro" (often played in the southern region) and "the widow" (often played in the northern region). The scoring for both versions are the same, using the "Italian" variation's scoring matrix. The game play for both versions is the same and differs slightly from the aforementioned variations. Both versions have 4 players, 2 sets of partners sitting opposite one another, who are dealt 52 cards total. The way the cards are dealt and the bidding differ slightly.

In the "draw" version, the players are each dealt 9 cards (three at a time), after which, bidding begins to the left of the dealer, with the lowest possible bid being 6. If a player does not wish to bid, they "pass" the bid goes onto the next player. When the bidding comes back around to the dealer, the highest bidder gets to call the suit. When the suit has been called, players discard all non-suited cards (except the other pedro of the same color), then they are dealt the amount needed to reach 6. When the deal comes back around to the dealer, the dealer then sorts through the remaining deck and picks out the cards he needs to bring their hand up to 6. If there are more than 6 suited cards remaining in the deck, the dealer must take all of them into their hand.

In "the widow" version, the players are each dealt 9 cards, with the remaining 16 cards in the deck dealt face down in front of each player, so that each player now has an additional 4 cards. These cards cannot be viewed until after bidding takes place. The bid starts to the dealer's left and proceeds clockwise around the table. After each player bids or passes, they can pick up their remaining 4 cards. When the bid has gone around the table and after the dealer has picked up his cards, the winning bidder can then choose their suit. The players then discard non-suited cards (except the other pedro of the same color), holding onto all suited cards, even in excess of 6 in a hand.

The following rules of game play apply to both versions:

After the cards are dealt, the game begins with the winning bidder leading the first hand. The first lead must be trump. If any player has more than 6 trump cards, he must lay down enough trumps to bring their remaining hand down to 5. Also, the cards "discarded" must not be point cards and the card placed on top will be the official card played for that hand. Play continues normally, with the exceptions that whoever plays the "2" gets its point regardless of who plays the highest card in the trick, and whoever wins a hand can start the next hand "off-suit"; at which time, players must play the off-suit that was led if they kept any of that suit in their hand, if a player does not have the off-suit that was led then they can play any other off-suit, a "trump" or on-suit card can be played at any time. After leading off-suit, if no one else plays a higher card of the suit led or a trump, the player who led maintains the lead. In the case of trump cards played in an off-suit hand, the highest trump always takes the next lead. A player is out of the round when they are unable to follow a trump led with a trump of their own. As in the "Italian" variation, whichever team reaches 91 first wins.

Both versions are incredibly popular throughout the county and are often played in "card parties", in which several tables play at once, each one numbered. After each round, the deal is passed to the next person at the table, until the deal goes around the table once. After the round of 4 deals, the individual players will switch partners throughout the party by moving up or down a table, depending on whether they win or lose. At the end of the party, the players with the winning scores amassed throughout the night can choose prizes.

Oregon variation
This variation has also been called "Bid Pedro" because of its focus on the bidding process. Play is similar to Double Pedro other than the following changes.

There are a total of 15 points because of the addition of the Off-Jack as a point card. The minimum bid is 6 with a maximum bid of 15. If the first three bidders pass, the dealer can bid 5. The bidders name a suit as they bid, for example, "6 Hearts". The suits are ranked, from highest to lowest, Spades, Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds. For example, if the first bidder says "6 Diamonds" then the second bidder could bid "6 Clubs" because clubs are ranked higher than diamonds. If the first bidder had said "6 Spades" then a bid of at least "7 Diamonds" would be needed to beat the first bid. Bidding continues until three players pass. Bidders may change their suit during the bidding process, but not after a winning bid is declared. A player may pass once around, and then bid the second time in rare occasions. For example, if the first bidder says "6 Diamonds" and one has a weak hand in Diamonds, you pass, then bidding goes around and comes back to you and now the high bid is "7 Clubs". At this point one can re-enter the bidding process as long as one's bid is higher than "7 Clubs".

When play is done, if a player fails to make his bid, he goes down in points by the number of his bid. The opposing team always keep whatever points they earn. This means that on a bid of 6, the opposing team could make 9 points and both teams' scores would go up. The game is won when one team reaches 63 points. If both teams reach 63 or higher, and have a tie score, then the bidding team wins. Some people play a tie-breaker hand instead.

By bidding in suits, the player's partner gets the chance to signal if they have supporting cards with their own bid by giving a supporting bid, or counter bid. ex. If the first bidder says "6 clubs" and the third bidder has a supporting 5 or many cards of the same suit, then he/she may bid "7 Clubs" to support their partner. This does add confusion because the highest bidder leads, so the player with the weaker hand may end up with the lead by giving a supporting bid. In this same example, if the third player did not have any supporting clubs, but had some high spades, they may choose to counter bid "6 Spades" in hopes that Jacks and 5s of same color may match their partner's hand.

After bidding, players discard all non-suited cards to the left of the dealer. Any point cards accidentally thrown into the discard pile go directly to the dealers hand before play begins. Non-suited cards have no rank. If a non-suited card is led, players may play any card in their hands regardless of suit; if no trump card is played on the Trick, the leader retains the lead. If trump is led and one cannot follow suit, i.e. one is out of trump, then you discard your hand to the discard pile and play continues without you.

There are many complexities in this version due to the 15-point total, and the ability to signal to a partner with the bid. This is an excellent variation for advanced Pedro players looking to add a bit of challenge to the game.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Pedro (card game)


text:
Sutter Buttes

The Sutter Buttes (Maidu: Histum Yani or Esto Yamani, Wintun: Olonai-Tol, Nisenan: Estom Yanim) are a small circular complex of eroded volcanic lava domes which rise as buttes above the flat plains of the Sacramento Valley in Sutter County, northern California. They are situated just outside Yuba City in the northern part of the state's Central Valley.

Referred to as the world's smallest mountain range, the Sutter Buttes have as their highest point the summit of South Butte, at 2122 ft, which is also the highest point in Sutter County.

At the base of the mountain is the small town of Sutter. Both the town and the buttes are named for John Sutter, who received a large land grant in the area from the Mexican government.

Geography
The small range forms a rough circle approximately 10 mi from north to south and east to west.

Geology
The Sutter Buttes lie within the Central Valley of California.

They were formed about 1.6 million years ago in the early Pleistocene Epoch by volcanic activity. They are the remnants of a volcano that has been dormant for about 1.4 million years. Some geological references suggest that the volcano represents the southernmost boundary of the Cascade Volcanoes, but there are significant differences in age and form compared to the other volcanoes in that range. Others suggest that its age places it with the volcanic elements of the California Coast Ranges; its composition is closer to that range but does have significant differences.

Exploration of natural gas leaks was first undertaken at South Butte by Dexter Cook in 1864, when he dug a 65 ft shaft. Sutter Buttes Oil Company drilled a well in 1927 to a depth of 2900 ft, and other wells were drilled on the western margin. Buttes Oilfields, Inc., drilled a well in 1932, but it wasn't until June 1935, though, that it drilled the first of four gas wells in the area of T. 15 N., R 1 E.

Soils and vegetation
The rugged central part of the Buttes has a stony, brown sandy loam of variable depth and good-to-somewhat-excessive drainage. The smoother perimeter has more variable soil, with clay or silt loam areas among the sandy loams. These soils support grassland or oak woodland. The Sutter Buttes contain many species of flora and fauna. Wildflowers are represented by numerous taxa; included in these many wildflowers is the yellow mariposa lily, Calochortus luteus.

Indigenous era
The Sutter Buttes figure prominently in the creation stories and other traditions of the indigenous Nisenan, Maidu, and Wintun peoples. The Nisenan lived on the East side of the Buttes, while the Patwin Wintun lived on the West side. The Nisenan name for the Buttes is Estom Yanim. The Maidu name for the Sutter Buttes is Histum Yani (middle mountains of the Valley) or Esto Yamani, while the Wintun name for the Sutter Buttes is Onolai-Tol. All of these names roughly mean "The Middle Mountains".

There were seasonal encampments in the Buttes, and all these tribes visited the Buttes regularly to gather acorns and other foods or to hunt game. The Buttes were also a center of regional Native American religion. According to anthropologist Alfred Kroeber, the Patwin village where the city of Colusa now stands was the “hotbed” where the Kuksu Cult was established. This religion spread through much of Northern California. Ceremonies were performed in earthen dance lodges where spirit impersonators would re-enact ancient mythological events.

In the Maidu and Nisenan religions, the Sutter Buttes is the place where dying people came to ascend to the afterlife.

Spanish & Mexican periods
The Spaniard Gabriel Moraga was the first European to see the Sutter Buttes in 1806. In 1817, the Californio Luis Antonio Argüello named it "los tres picos" (the three peaks, name that appears on the Mexican land grant made to Captain John Sutter). In 1843, John C. Frémont called them "The Three Buttes." James Dwight Dana explored the buttes on 16 Oct. 1841, while part of the United States Exploring Expedition. In June 1846, John C. Frémont, on a massacre spree since April, stopped at the Sutter Buttes. Fearing an attack from the local Indians, Frémont led a preemptive attack which killed many Indians and led the others to flee the area. It remains known as the Sutter Buttes massacre.

American period
Under the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hildago at the end of the war with Mexico the United States acquired California. Under the treaty the United States agreed to respect titles conveyed by Mexico. John Sutter claimed ownership of the Sutter Buttes under his New Helvetia grant. The United States Land Commission and the courts determined that Sutter's New Helvetia Grant did not include the Buttes. No land title in the Buttes arises under a Spanish or Mexican Grant, all title to land in the Buttes derives from the federal government. During the Gold Rush, the Buttes were called the "Marysville Buttes". In 1920, the state of California failed to purchase the Marysville Buttes, which finally became the "Sutter Buttes" in 1949.

Howel Williams further investigated the geology of the buttes in 1929. Williams teamed up with Garniss Curtis in 1977 to include radiometric dating of the area.

Since 1929, the State of California considered purchasing the land for protection and a state park. In 2003, the California Department of Parks and Recreation purchased 1784.5 acre in Peace Valley, on the north side of the Sutter Buttes, for $3 million with the intent to develop it as a state park. In 2005 the Parks Commission determined that the property would be a state park, but it was not officially named.

Titan missile silos and U-2 crash
Between 1960 and 1962, the US Air Force built a Titan 1 ICBM missile launch complex at the north side of the Sutter Buttes, the Pennington Missile Base. A part of the 851st Strategic Missile Squadron headquartered at nearby Beale Air Force Base, the site was designated "851-B." The companion 851-A and 851-C launch sites were located near Lincoln, California, and Chico, California. Designed by the United States Army Corps of Engineers to survive a nuclear attack, the Titan 1 complexes were the largest and most hardened of the first-generation ICBM facilities. The sites were composed of three underground missile silos interconnected to support and command bunkers by a network of tunnels. The facility was active between 1962 and 1965. In January 1965, the Titan 1 ICBM was phased out by the US Department of Defense. All missiles were removed from the site by February 1965. The facilities were then decommissioned and the land subsequently sold back into private ownership. The site has been host to many vandals and trespassers since the early 1980s to the present.

In September 2016, a US Air Force Lockheed U-2 from the 1st Reconnaissance Squadron crashed in the Sutter Buttes during a training mission, killing one of the two pilots.

Public access
Before 1960, the land was private, but accessible to the public. In 1960, a fire spread on the Buttes and the ranchers decided to close its access to the public. Since the state acquired some of the Buttes, it intends to redevelop its public access but the neighboring ranchers are highly hostile to that idea.

Public access to the Sutter Buttes is limited. Almost all of the surrounding land is privately held by ranchers and farmers, but an exception is a 200 acre parcel encompassing most of North Butte, donated by deed from the McClatchy Company to the Sutter Buttes Regional Land Trust. A few naturalists and local organizations, including Middle Mountain Interpretive Hikes, and the Sutter County Historical Society, lead hikes through some areas.

title: Sutter Buttes


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Doidimais Brasil

Doidimais Brasil
final (0,12,1) ending 21:51 14 February 2005 (UTC)

I nominate myself because I believe sysop abilities would enhance my range of skills in Wikipedia so as to keep improving it.

Original articles I made include Olavo Bilac, Diogo Mainardi, Olavo de Carvalho, Holy Avenger, Marista Hall, Chris Jones, Baldur´s Gate, and The Underdog Project. I also made Wikisource Português.

I´ve recently put fair use tags in all images I uploaded since I joined Wikipedia, a project of which I am enthusiast.

I´ve been here for quite some time, as well.Doidimais Brasil 00:10, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Support

Oppose
 * 1) This user has done some great work on the articles he created (see above). I have two reasons for opposing: 1) Low edit count. I don't expect a user to have 4000 edits before RfA, but I would like to see more than his current 425. 2) Lack of experience dealing with controversial situations. I took a look at Talk:Olavo de Carvalho and wasn't very impressed with the comments in the "Author here" section. I'd prefer that WP admins didn't end comments with "Thanks, morons". Carrp | Talk 00:25, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Quick check of his talk comments: Most seem to be OK, but the Talk:Olavo de Carvalho mentioned by Carrp is not so hot. In any case, there are not enough edits -- Chris 73 Talk 00:51, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Great user, but he hasn't made enough edits. As much as I hate edit number standards, I have to oppose this user.  However, if you come back later with more edits, I would definitely support you.  Bart133 (t) 03:57, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) I'm not a huge edit counter, but I expect more than 425 edits from a prospective admin. I will most likely support when the user has more experience, both in terms of edit number and interaction with the community. --Rje 04:29, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Not enought experience yet, sorry. --Slowking Man 08:00, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can see you've been around for a while, but I don't see a consistent level of dedication to the project during that time (there are significant gaps in time between some of your contributions). I do not consider this to be characteristic of a good admin. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 18:10, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)
 * 1) --Lst27 ( t a l k )  22:51, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC) Sorry. I oppose, for several reasons:
 * 2) *Not enough experience. I expect people to have at least 1,200 edits before requesting adminship.
 * 3) *Not enough edit summaries.
 * 4) *When he nominated himself, he put the nomination in the "nominations" section (instead of the "self nominations" section), and I had to move it.
 * 5) *He linked this page wrong and forgot to change the username. [ Vote here] (0/6/0) ending 21:51 14 January 2005 (UTC)
 * 6) I don't like the "Thanks, morons" comment. I may support later but definitely not this time. JuntungWu 17:44, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 7) Not yet -- Francs2000 | Talk  02:23, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 8) Agree with above. Neutralitytalk 06:22, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * 9) Never. Many of your contributions are of very doubtful usefulness (I still remember "Quarto do Chefinho" from VfD) and you fail at the task of placing a simple image on an article (The Underdog Project). Strong opposition. --Sn0wflake 16:49, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 10) I base my decision on JuntungWu's comment about skills (below). -- R yan!  |  Talk  17:29, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

Neutral
 * 1) Not enough experience. ugen 64 06:20, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Comments
 * 425 edits Carrp | Talk 00:11, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I personally don't like the comment about "enhancing my skills". Sysops are supposed to have the skills required ready, not the other way round. JuntungWu 17:38, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * By the way I just noticed that the end date is wrong; it should be February not January. JuntungWu 17:41, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:
 * 1. What sysop chores, if any, would you anticipate helping with? (Please read the page about administrators and the administrators' reading list.)
 * Helping new people in figuring out what they can do - and what´s to do - in Wikipedia; being able to edit polemical pages such as Olavo de Carvalho, which I created originally; quickly reverting pages where I see vandalism, such as World War II and Cold War.
 * 2. Of your articles or contributions to Wikipedia, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
 * Yes. Olavo de Carvalho, because he himself and I changed e-mails about it. Holy Avenger, because I think it looks really nice. Olavo Bilac and The Underdog Project, because I really like their poems and songs,respectively.Wikisource Português, because I could put Bilac´s poems in it; and even a book of mine.
 * 3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and will deal with it in the future?
 * Finding out Olavo de Carvalho had been protected really pissed me off (check the page´s discussion). But it´s over now and I´ll always discuss a change I believe is controversial before actually editing an article.


text:
File talk:Araneaus diadematus.jpg

Beste Michel,

er zit een typfoutje in de afbeeldingsnaam...

Groeten,

Tbc2 23:57, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: File talk:Araneaus diadematus.jpg


text:
Alexandra Dobolyi

Alexandra Dobolyi (born September 26, 1971) is a Hungarian politician. She is a former Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the Hungarian Socialist Party, part of the Party of European Socialists group. Dobolyi was an MEP from 2004 to 2009.

Early life
Alexandra Dobolyi was born on 26 September 1971 in Budapest, Hungary. Her early education was at Petőfi Sándor High School in Budapest.

European Parliament
Dobolyi stood as a candidate for the Hungarian Socialist Party in the 2004 European parliamentary election. She was elected as one of its nine MEPs in Hungary. Dobolyi was part of the Party of European Socialists group. In the European Parliament, Dobolyi was a member of the Committee on Development, Committee on Petitions, and was part of the delegation for relations with the Korean Peninsula and the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly.

Personal life
She is married to politician and former Finance Minister János Veres.

title: Alexandra Dobolyi


text:
Zita Gurmai

Zita Gurmai (born 1 June 1965 in Budapest) is a Hungarian politician who served as a Member of the European Parliament from 2004 until 2014. She is a member of the Hungarian Socialist Party, part of the Party of European Socialists.

Education and early career

 * 1983–1988. Karl Marx University of Economics (1983–1988); doctorate 1991
 * 1988–1990. Comporgan company, communications coordinator
 * 1990–1992. Westel Rádiótelefon Kft., sales executive
 * 1994–1995. Political History Institute, PR manager
 * 1995–2002. Szelén Művelődési Tanácsadó Kft., manager

Political career
From the 1990s Gurmai was active in civil society, sets up many foundations: Nők a valódi esélyegenlőségért Alapítvány (Women's Foundation for Genuine Equality), Nők a közéletben Alapítvány (Women in Public Life Foundation). She drew up many reports on equality and done research as organiser and co-author.
 * 2002–2004. Member of the Hungarian Parliament, delegate to the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, delegate to the Central European Network, Observer in the European Parliament
 * From 1993. Hungarian Socialist Party party member, in 1995. administrator, women's section
 * From 1999. Vice-president, Socialist International Women
 * From 2001. President, women's section
 * From 2004. President, PES Women

Member of the European Parliament, 2004–2014
During her time in the European Parliament, Gurmai served on the Committee on Constitutional Affairs (2009–2014), the Committee on Women's Rights and Gender Equality (2004–2014) and the Committee on Regional Development (2004–2009). In this capacity, she was the parliament’s co-rapporteur (alongside Alain Lamassoure) on the rules governing the European Citizens' Initiative in 2010.

When Martine Aubry took over as leader of France’s Socialist Party in 2008, Gurmai became the party’s national spokesperson for women’s rights.

Special Adviser to the European Commission, 2015–2018
From 2015 until 2018, Gurmai served as Special Adviser on Gender Policy in Development Cooperation to European Commissioner for International Cooperation and Development Neven Mimica.

Member of the Hungarian Parliament, 2018–present
Since the 2018 elections, Gurmai has been a member of the Hungarian Parliament again.

In addition to her role in parliament, Gurmai has been serving as a member of the Hungarian delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe since 2018. In the Assembly, she has since been a member of the Committee on Equality and Non-Discrimination and the Committee on the Honouring of Obligations and Commitments by Member States of the Council of Europe. She has also been serving as the Assembly's General Rapporteur on violence against women since 2020.

Political positions
When the International Investment Bank announced its move to Hungary in 2019, Gurmai publicly called the bank “Putin’s Trojan horse.”

Personal life
Gurmai was married to Mihály Gulyás. Now divorced, they have two sons, Mihály Balázs and Bálint Imre.

title: Zita Gurmai


text:
Talk:Cholent

Untitled
From Translation into English:
 * Article: de:Tscholent
 * Corresponding English-language article: Cholent
 * Worth doing because: broaden people's knowledge.
 * Originally Requested by:--61.112.214.176 16:27, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Status: This translation is done. However, I would like to invite a native speaker of English to check the text for accuracy. Herr Klugbeisser 13:57, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC) - Thank you very much for your help!--Sheynhertz-Unbayg 16:09, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Other notes:

ashkenazi dish
Where does the claim that cholent is an "Ashkenazi dish" come from? The fact that "cholent" is a Yiddish word doesn't mean that cholent is an Ashkenazi dish, anymore than the fact that "shabes" is a Yiddish word means that only Ashkenazim keep shabat. If Sefardim didn't know of it, where do wevos haminados come from? The whole article actually sounds pretty poorly put-together tho, so I shouldn't be so surprised... TShilo12 23:19, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I think designating this dish as Ashkenazi is quite precise and appropriate. The origin of this dish (or rather, group of dishes) is of course the generic חמין [ḥammín] — a term we meet already inthe Mishna —, quite possibly through the Western Romance language area Jewish dish caliente. Tshólnt/Shálet is closely related to an Iberian / North African Sephardi dishes dafina/adafina. In other words, Sephardim (mostly not Ottoman Sephardim, though) do know of the same basic dish in different developed versions. -- Olve 02:34, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Perhaps it's just me. I always assumed that the many varieties of "cholent" were just part of the same continuum as the many varieties of jamín.  If that is inaccurate, then I retract my protest.  I do not, however, believe it to be inaccurate, and think the assumption that it is a completely different "dish" is based more on cultural and linguistic bias than on any concrete set of facts.  The historic development of the various varieties of "cholent" and "jamín" I have sampled have far more to do with personal preference and family traditions than with any great divergence between ashkenazic and sefardic or mizrachi cuisine.  Maybe the overall Ashkenazi-palate preference for non-spicy (or in my book, "bland") foods warrants a different entry in some peoples' idea of what a dictionary entry should entail, but not in mine.  I think the article should be expanded, de-POVed, and mention made that XXX is called "chulent" in Yiddish, and is generally characterized by YYY, etc.  TShilo12 04:17, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

some fact fixes
That's all for now. Tom e rtalk 05:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The article claimed the Sadducees rejected the Oral Law. While this is true, it's not quite what spawned the tradition of making jamín--that came later.  The Sadducees also rejected the Nevi`im and the Kþuvim.  The adoption of the stance that it was a mitzva to serve jamín on shabaþ was only established definitively in the Gemara, and then as a "proof" of the wrongness, not of the Sadducees who were wiped out several centuries earlier, but of the Qara'im, who were unlike the Tzeduqim in just about every way possible.  Not only did they not reject the Torah sheba'alPe out of hand like the Tzeduqim (instead they rejected its authority as on-par with the written Torah, and, originally, primarily as a result of their opposition to the Oral Torah being committed to writing), but they accepted the Inspiration of the Nevi`im and Kþuvim.  Compared to the disagreements between the Sadducees and Pharisees, the differences between the Karaites and the Rabbanites are as insignificant as the differences between Chabad Lubavitch and Breslover Chasiðim.  The Pharisees were populists in their day, but they weren't nearly as numerous or powerful as the Sadducees while their argument with them was ongoing.  After the destruction of the Temple, the Sadducees were practically wiped out, and disappeared from history shortly thereafter.  Thanks to the establishment of the Sanhedrin at Yavne, the Prushim suddenly became powerful.  Their primary opponents, however, were suddenly missing completely from the scene, so the level of polemic against them in Pharisaic writings never rises to the fever pitch as it does regarding the Qaraim, who were much more numerous and powerful vs. the Rabbanites vis à vis the comparative position of the Prushim vs. the Tzeduqim centuries earlier.  The difference was that the Rabbanites were in control of the Academies and the rather anti-establishment ideology of the Qara'im worked against them.  Tom e rtalk  05:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) The article claimed that cholent is served as part of the morning meal in Orthodox homes. I've been in many Orthodox homes, and I've never been served shalet as part of the morning meal...in fact, morning meals are incredibly rare, and in some traditions even prohibited.  I've changed the text to say it's served at the main Shabath meal instead (maybe if you go to an early minyan and do a quick service, skip the repetitions of the `amiða and maybe skip musaf ch"v, you'll get back in time to call it a "morning meal").  Also, I've changed it to say "observant" (although perhaps it should say "religious"), since I know lots of Conservative Jews also make chulent for shabath.  (Despite the ridiculous polemics, they don't all drive on shabath and eat hot ham-and-cheese sandwiches for lunch on Yom Kippur.)
 * 3) A recent edit by Eliezer characterized the Sadducees as heretics, rather than the earlier text's assertion that the Pharisees (although that version also confused Pharisees with Rabbanites) regarded them as heretics. Calling them heretics is not NPOV.  Saying the Pharisees regarded the Sadducees as heretics isn't actually correct, they regarded them as "unenlightened"--there's a difference.  The Rabbanites, on the other hand, did regard the Qara'im as heretics, and saying so is perfectly fine, but WP policy prohibits us from calling either group heretics.

Why Sadducees?
Does anyone else think that the discussion of the Sadducees in this article is superfluous? Is the origin in a polemic with the Sadducees or with the Karites?Does anyone have a source that this is in fact the origin of cholent? While it's true there are practices that have their origin in intersectarian polemic, unless anyone has a proof it is much more likely that cholent derives from a desire for hot food. Also, the way its written now is misleading as it switches between Sadduccees and Karites w/o noting the several centuries difference between the two. I vote to take out the entire discussion. Sjavitt84 11:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The Sadducees played a rôle in the development of the mitzva, which is why they're mentioned. The solution here is to improve the coverage of the historical development and rationale for the dish, rather than to excise all mention of its origin.  When I get enough time I'll get sources for the various claims in the article, unless someone else beats me to it.  You can help tho, by doing a google search and working on the article yourself, instead of just kibbitzing from the sidelines.  Tom e rtalk  22:19, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Photo
That is some nasty cholent cooking in that pot. No whole potatos? Feh! ems 09:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Etymology
Another opinion is that the name is derived from the words "shul end", meaning that it is eaten after the prayer services in the shul (Yiddish for synagogue) are over on the Sabbath morning.

I find this scarcely believable. Does anyone have a citation for this from a reasonably scholarly source? AJD 13:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I have a feeling that this particular folk etymology originated as a joke. My grandfather a"h used to say (facetiously) that cholent was a contraction of "chow left over night", which makes about as much sense... Shalom S. (talk) 23:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Origin of the word "Cholent"
I was told a number of years ago that the word "cholent" is from the French words "chaud" and "lente" meaning warm and slow ... exactly how to prepare this wonderful dish! Has anyone else ever heard this?

Unfortunately, all the alternative etymologies are false, are just cluttering the entry and confusing the reader. Weinreich s etymology is not valid, for typological and phonetic reasons : the word chalant never existed in French (had it existed, it would have meant ”warming”, not warm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.13.250.223 (talk) 03:40, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Image on top
That image looks like cholent that has been sitting in the pot all day and has turned gummy. I don't think it should be there. It doesn't add anything to the article. Joecool94 - Bane of Vandals 14:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Morrocans and Spanish Jews
Are occidental, Morroco is far more western than poland and if dafeena is indeed iberian than its origin is not oriental,whereas chamim is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk • contribs) IZAK (talk) 05:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Page Merger
Why does Wikipedia need a separate page for Cholent and Chamin?? The Chamin page should be merged with this one.--Gilabrand (talk) 06:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I must disagree. This article should have been merged into the חמן article, not the other way around. Tomertalk 16:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Merger of Chamin into this article
Please discuss below this line (July 13, 2008). --Zlerman (talk) 07:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC) it is appropriate since they are just variations; particularly since there is so much cross-cultural homogenization within Jewish cooking, there one woman's cholent is another one's hamim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.225.254.152 (talk) 11:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Chamin merged into Cholent. Wikifying of Cholent continues. --Zlerman (talk) 18:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

"Suitable taste" ?
Just a curious nitpick about the statement in the first paragraph that the slow-cooked ingredients produce "unique tastes that make cholent a suitable dish for celebrating the Shabbat in traditional Jewish families." Wouldn't the taste be irrelevant? It's the fact that it's prepped before sundown and not cooked the day of that makes it suitable.

But this isn't my area of expertise, so didn't want to leap blindly in and edit without checking. Rkaufman13 (talk) 22:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right, of course. This is a "peacock" carried over from layered earlier versions. Please see if the new language is more acceptable. --Zlerman (talk) 04:30, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Chamin vs. Cholent
I don't understand, why "Chamin" was merged into "Cholent" and not the other way round. And I don't see any discussion about it here. It looks like one user just decided to merge it that way, and that was it. As a result, the article is a mess, e.g. it lists all the Hebrew and Arabic names and then goes to "Etymology" - and back to "Cholent"! Logically speaking, the Hebrew name of the dish should take first place, and the local names in whatever languages should come second and on the same level. There is an interesting picture on commons, used in the yiddish article of all places: Cholent with huevos haminados! My guess is, that this is an Israeli fusion, but it could be French, where there are also Ashkenazim and Sephardim who might influence oneanother. But back to the article, as it is, it is imo practically impossible to improve the article without moving it to "Chamin" first. Any comments? Ajnem (talk) 15:10, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Half the Ingredients of Cholent are from after the Discovery of America
Potatoes, beans, tomatoes. Just curious if there is room for a discussion of earlier Jewish recipes before the 15th century (when there were no potatoes). Is there an article that discusses what the typical diet was in the time of the Mishnah/Talmud, for example? What would cholent have been like then, or in the early middle ages?Jimhoward72 (talk) 15:24, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A similar thing happens with people's perceptions of Italian food (with everything drowned in tomato based sauces), and people avoid discussing the respective cuisines before the introduction of New World or Asian ingredients. :/ — al-Shimoni  (talk) 20:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Picture
No offense, but can anyone produce a better photo? The current one is not going to convince anyone to become frum. ypnypn (talk) 01:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Why should a picture of food convince anyone to practice any religion. I find this comment to be highly offensive in indicating that a regional Jewish cuisine should be conflated with a particular practice of a religion. 208.125.143.178 (talk) 15:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Importance
Why is cholent rated as high-importance to Israel? It's about as low-importance as it gets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ypnypn (talk • contribs) 01:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Traditional Shabbat food
I came to this article not knowing at all what cholent was, and it's quite informative. But I confess I hit an absolute brick wall comprehension-wise when I got to the 3rd paragraph of the Traditional Shabbat food section, which is nothing to do with cholent at all, but rather a highly rarified exegetical/hebrew linguistic discussion which doesn't appear at all germane to the definition of cholent, but rather solely to qualify the preceding paragraph from a different religious point of view. The second paragraph has already explained the reason for the cooking length and timing with what I assume to be reference to generally accepted rabbinical principles, so may I suggest the deletion of the third para.? I know so little about the subject that I hesitate do do it myself! Thanks. 193.108.78.10 (talk) 12:03, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

I was the main writer of that paragraph. You "hit an absolute brick wall comprehension-wise"? Wow, that expression is quite a strong one! The 2nd paragraph merely states that it is permissible to have the food prepared hot on Sabbat, while the 3rd paragraph brings out the significance of eating it as a demonstration of certain faith and tradition, and cites the words of a 12th century renowned scholar. It points out that traditionally the eating of hot food on Shabbat was to make a statement that we abide and listen to our Rabbical scholars and not to the Karaite ones, even in the case where the Rabbincal thought is more lenient. Although nowadays there is no active daily battle between the two factions, in generations past this was a very hot issue, on the forefront of the agenda, and thus is very germane to the tradition of cholent. I don't know if you are Jewish or not, it's not relevant, but you're definitely not eating cholent by your admittance. As a practicing Orthodox Jew, I do - and I know a little about the stuff! Ohnonotyou (talk) 16:03, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

The name of the article
It should be Hamin instead of "Cholent" which is the Ashkenazi variant of Hamin, there is also Sephardic, Yemenite, Iraqi, Israeli etc... variation for the dish The main ingredients aren't correct as well, the only main ingredient i can think of is the chicken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.147.12 (talk) 11:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Requested move 14 September 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. A clear snowball closure. (closed by non-admin page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 17:36, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Cholent → Hamin – "Hamin" is the standard Hebrew name for the dish, while "Cholent" is the Ashkenazi variant; there other varieties prepared by other Jewish populations such as Moroccan, Sephardic, Yemenite, Iraqi, etc. so a more standard name should be used. Sambasoccer27 (talk) 15:43, 14 September 2019 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 16:06, 14 September 2019 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 16:06, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * According to the article, Hamin is specifically the Sephardi version. Cholent is by far the WP:COMMONNAME in the English-speaking world. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * The text "Hamin (חמין, pronounced ḥamin), the Sephardi version of cholent" in the Etymology section of the article cites no source, if that's what you are referring to. What is cited is the Mishnaic phrase "tomnin et ha’chamin," from Shabbat in the Talmud. The scope of this article seems to extend beyond the Ashkenazi variant of hamin, so it seems WP:NPOV should be applied. Sambasoccer27 (talk) 02:14, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose This is the English Wikipedia. While hamin is the older term, it is still in a foreign language. Though cholent isn't technically English either (the article suggests a Latin source) I agree with Ahecht that it has entered the vernacular of common speech. For example, 'hamin recipe' returns half the google hits as 'cholent recipe.' Secondly, cholent usually appears on its own, while hamin often appears in conjunction with cholent, suggesting it requires a qualifier due to its relative obscurity (see this for example). While cholent is only one variant of hamin, it is nevertheless the 200 lb. gorilla of variants. StonyBrook (talk) 05:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose Known mainly as cholent in the English-speaking Jewish world, and this is English wikipedia.Geewhiz (talk) 06:00, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is the common name in English. 08:52, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose Cholent is the WP:COMMONNAME in English. Hamin redirects to this article and is discussed here, for those who happen to know the Hebrew term and search for it as "Hamin" --Chefallen (talk) 16:40, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per all who oppose. תנא קמא (talk) 20:20, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Orphaned references in Haminados
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Haminados's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Nathan": From Pain petri:  From American Jewish cuisine:  From Tzimmes: Joan Nathan, Joan Nathan's Jewish Holiday Cookbook, Schocken, 2004; page 228.
From Za'atar:

From Rugelach: Joan Nathan, Joan Nathan's Jewish Holiday Cookbook, Schocken, 2004; page 284.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:37, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

I can only assume this article is meant as a joke.
First I will point to the etymology section. Three instances of "citation needed" still remain. A fourth citation is to a self published blog, while the remainder are from obscure written texts, which makes it difficult to check. Sources 5, 6, and 7 are primary sources and their inclusion here is entirely original research and completely inappropriate. "Traditional Shabbat Food" is similarly entirely unsourced. The three "citations" included are ALL primary sources and original research. This article pushes a clear POV and is embarrassingly poorly sourced for an encyclopedia, even a wiki. My proposal would be to delete all of the unsourced material, including the primary sources as that is original research, and move this article back to a stub to be built encyclopedically. 208.125.143.178 (talk) 16:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: The Middle Ages
— Assignment last updated by Dwlehm1 (talk) 00:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cholent


text:
User:LivingLegend

About Me

I'm a 19 year old marketing student currently studying at DIT. My inerests include drama, ballroom dancing and pool.

title: User:LivingLegend


text:
Gábor Harangozó

Gábor István Harangozó (born September 27, 1975, in Budapest) is a Hungarian politician and Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the Hungarian Socialist Party, part of the Party of European Socialists.

Harangozó spent his childhood years in Szekszárd. After completing his secondary education, he enrolled in the University of West Hungary in 1995, where he received a degree in Agribusiness. He then went on to study European Funds Management at CAH Dronten in the Netherlands. From 2002 he represented the German federal state of Baden-Württemberg in Brussels.

He was elected an MEP in the 2004 general elections, and he was the youngest Hungarian MEP then. In 2010 he became a member of the National Assembly of Hungary.

Personal life
He is married. His wife is Vanda Harangozóné Tuboly. They have two daughters, Sára and Emma and a son, Dávid. His younger brother Tamás Harangozó is also a representative in the Hungarian Parliament.

title: Gábor Harangozó


text:
Gyula Hegyi

Gyula Hegyi (born 30 April 1951) is a Hungarian politician and a former Member of the European Parliament for the Hungarian Socialist Party, part of the Party of European Socialists.

Biography
Gyula Hegyi was born on 30 April 1951 in Békéscsaba. He studied at the Budapest University of Technology, from where he graduated in 1975. Two years later he finished the school of the Association of Hungarian Journalists (MÚOSZ) in 1975. He worked for the culture and the 'comment' section of the Hungarian newspaper, Magyar Hírlap.

He published some thousand articles on culture and politics in Hungarian dailies and weeklies and he also wrote nine books: three collections of verses, six collections of essays and other articles.

From the time of the change of regime in Hungary until he became MP in the Hungarian Parliament Gyula Hegyi had been the spokesman and the member of the presidency of several Hungarian organisation, such as Demokratikus Charta, Nyilvánosság Klub and Amnesty International. He is the member of the Association of Catholic Journalists, the Hungarian Writer's Association, and several environmental movements.

Hegyi and the Hungarian Socialist Party
Hegyi joined the Hungarian Socialist Party on 15 March 1995. He was elected to MP three times, in 1994, 1998 and 2002. He was the member of the Human Rights Committee and European Integration Committee in his first term. He was the vice-chairman of the NGO Committee in his second term, and had the same position in the Environmental Committee from 2002. Hegyi represents the left wing of the party.

Hegyi in the European Parliament
Hegyi was elected to the Member of the European Parliament from the list of the Hungarian Socialist Party in June 2004. He became the member of the Environment, Public Health and Food Safe Committee and the substitute member of the Culture and Education Committee. He participates in the work of the West-Balkan Delegation and the vice-chairman of the Macedonian Delegation. As one of the most active Hungarian MEP, he has been the rapporteur or co-rapporteur of some twenty reports of environmental and cultural issues. After his mandate at the European Parliament, he joined the cabinet of European Commissioner László Andor.

Relevant Links

 * Hegyi Gyula's personal web site
 * Hegyi Gyula's official web site
 * Hegyi Gyula's Member of European Parliament page
 * Learn from our failures and create a socialist democracy article, Guardian newspaper, Dec. 2006
 * New Warsaw pact article in Guardian, Sept. 2008.

title: Gyula Hegyi


text:
Edit Herczog

Edit Herczog (born 6 May 1961 in Budapest) is a Hungarian Socialist Party politician who was a Member of the European Parliament between 2004 and 2014.

Hungarian Socialist Party work.
Herczog has been a member of the Hungarian Socialist Workers Party and of the Hungarian Socialist Party (MSZP) since 1989. She was elected as an MP in 1998 and also in 2002 in Fejér county. She became a member of the national presidency of the MSZP in 2007. She worked her way up the bureaucracy of the MSZP, through the Procedural Committee, in the Committee of the European Integration Affairs between 1998–2002 and in the Committee of Foreign Affairs and of Environmental Protection since 2002.

Herczog was a member of the Hungarian delegation of the European Commission from 1999. Being leader of the female committee of the socialist group in Strasbourg she was also a member of the group leadership. She took part in the work of the Hungarian-English and Hungarian-American branches of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, as vice-president.

Activities in the European Parliament
Herczog was a member of the European Parliament from May 2004. Her committee work included the Internal Market and Consumer Protection, Delegation for relations with Canada and the EU-EEA. She was a substitute for the Committee on Industry, Research and Energy and for the Committee on Budgetary Control. She was also member of the Small and Medium Enterprises Working Group and the Lisbon Strategy Working Group. She is a Presidency member of the following European organizations: European Energy Forum, European Internet Foundation, Forum for the Future of Nuclear Energy, Cangaroo Group and the European Parliament-Business Forum.

Herczog gained some attention for an attempted intervention into a speech being made by Nigel Farage MEP, a representative for the United Kingdom Independence Party., when she told him, "And Mr. Farage, I’d like to say something Hungarian quotation for you, it is good that you are here because if the monkey goes up to the tree, it is better seen how red is his popo." The video of this performance became widely popular, partially on the basis of Farage's attack on the appointment of the top European roles of High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy and President of the European Council, but also for the unusual language employed.

Career
Herczog has worked for the following:
 * The University of Horticulture (food conservation engineer) (1985)
 * Eötvös Loránd University (Portuguese Department) (1992)
 * Hungarian Academy of Sciences (research fellow) (1985-1989)
 * University of Horticulture (professor's assistant) (1989-1994)
 * Unilever Hungary (1994-1997)
 * ICI Hungary (1997-2004)
 * National Starch Chemical (manager, Central and Eastern European Region).

Personal life
She is married to Dr Péter Szeredi. They have a daughter, Zsuzsanna, and two sons, Péter and Bálint.

title: Edit Herczog


text:
Template talk:Category TOC

Changes
--Scriberius (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * interwiki de needs to be fixed towards de:Vorlage:TOC Kategorie
 * We could use

doc
Where's the documentation at (no link)? --Scriberius (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there should be a documentation page, given that the template is protected. I have come here, however, to request another change:
 * |from=0}} 0-9]

to
 * |from=0}} 0–9]

In other words, the hyphen should change to an en dash. This is a number range, and hyphens should not be used for such ranges. Waltham, The Duke of 12:29, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] Done and [[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] Done. The page now both uses an en dash ( – ) and has a documentation subpage. { { Nihiltres | talk | log } } 16:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
A proposal about merging a lot of the category TOCs is being discussed at Template talk:CatAZ. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 23:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

bottom
If there's a way to complement "Top" with "Bottom", it would be good to get to the last things categorized. 76.66.193.69 (talk) 08:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Category TOC on non-TOC pages.
This would be very useful. What I mean is that you could place something like

and it would generate links to jump to the appropriate place in Category:Wikipedia books (community books), even if you are not on the category page. Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 19:53, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 March 2012
Can you please add rick sopher to the recipients of the Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneur: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catégorie:Chevalier_de_la_Légion_d%27honneur

Thank you for your help, i have spent hours trying to edit this page.

62.140.193.42 (talk) 10:01, 20 March 2012 (UTC) 	User:Rick Sopher (talk) 10:01, 20 March 2012 (GMT) 	Example (talk) 10:01, 20 March 2012 (GMT)

 * Since that category is on the French Wikipedia, it is only possible to add people that already have an article there. Since Rick Sopher only has an article on the English Wikipedia, a separate article (in French) would need to be created. You can do this by following this link: http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rick_Sopher&action=edit&redlink=1
 * At the bottom of the new article, put  and   on separate lines in the edit window to add it to the category and to add a link back to the english version in the sidebar. Tra (Talk) 20:49, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 May 2012
Charles Windsor Bower United States Army Major is a recipient of the Bronze Star for his Heroism in Pearl Harbor, The Philipines and Korea during World War II Sincerely, Geron Decker GrandsonDanthe3rd (talk) 10:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Danthe3rd (talk) 10:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good to know. That said, I think you might have posted on the wrong page, so you might try posting your request on the page that uses this template, presuming that you wish to add this person to whatever list/category that brought you here. -- slakr  \ talk / 01:08, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Feature request
In the same way as numerals can be displayed either separately or grouped, I would like to be able to display letters either separately or grouped. Category:Pistol and rifle cartridges contains entries primarily beginning with a numeral. If I were to add a TOC to that category, I would wish to display numerals separately and group the letters as A-Z. StraightAsADie (talk) 00:12, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 July 2013
In the same way as numerals can be displayed either separately or grouped, I would like to be able to display letters either separately or grouped. Category:Pistol and rifle cartridges contains many entries beginning with a numeral and few entries beginning with a letter. I have manually coded a TOC for that page which groups letters as A-Z, but would prefer to use a standard template.

I have added the ability to group letters into this template's sandbox: Template:Category TOC/sandbox. Updated documentation including test cases are in: User:StraightAsADie/sandbox. Note that the documentation links to the sandbox.

This change is completely backwards compatible with the current template. All existing instances of the template will display the same as they currently do. The new uppercase=group or lowercase=group parameters must be added to activate the new features.

StraightAsADie (talk) 02:09, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Thanks for the updates! Please don't forget to update the documentation as well. Best — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 11:13, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Documentation has been updated, and the new features are in use at Category:Pistol and rifle cartridges. Thank you! StraightAsADie (talk) 12:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

align = center
Doesn't seem to work. See the Examples section in the doc subpage. GregorB (talk) 21:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I have fixe it on Wikivoyage/de, but am not allowed to edit it here. Just add an  to the sytle-section. -- DerFussi (talk) 07:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'm going to try it in the sandbox and then make an edit request. GregorB (talk) 12:00, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems that the problem lies in TOC top, I believe the above solution will be applicable there. GregorB (talk) 13:02, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * TOC top has been fixed, looks fine now (may take some time before all transclusions are refreshed, though)! GregorB (talk) 09:19, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Remove text?
Shouldn't the text: should only be added to category pages and should not be used for categories containing less than 400 pages be removed from the description? It is not clear why a TOC cannot be added to any category of over 200 (maybe even less?) in this day and age when many are trying to access Wikipedia on very small screens? Ottawahitech (talk) 14:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Am I making sense? Ottawahitech (talk) 16:23, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The MediaWiki default is to display 200 items per page: having a table of contents for less than that would make anchors in the same document and wouldn't aid in navigation. I don't know about mobile: have you looked at any categories on a mobile device? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:43, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding Koavf. No, I have not looked at categories on a mobile recently, just threw this out to get some discussion going. As far as I am concerned I'd be happy with replacing the 400 with 200 in the text of this template. I do hope, though, that others would opine too. Ottawahitech (talk) 13:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Opinions No problem. And I will happily accept some other standard or consensus but I don't see a lot of folks writing here as it's a pretty obscure template talk page. By all means, go for it. Thanks. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:23, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Feature request: non-Latin characters
I have a need on an independent MediaWiki for a Category TOC that displays both Latin and Hiragana characters at the same time. Unicode order is acceptable. Is this possible? --Rob Kelk 13:27, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

New category TOC for centuries
A category such as Category:Houses by year of completion would be much better with a TOC having links to each century featured within the content. I think this would require a new template.

It could be similar to Template:TOCyears, which requires manual input for start and end dates, or Template:Compact ToC election decades, which requires input listing the relevant decades to be displayed. (Those examples show years and decades rather than centuries.)

Or could Template:Large category TOC numeric be cut down fairly simply for this purpose? I can't do it, but perhaps you can. – Fayenatic  L ondon 19:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * @Fayenatic, it seems to me that what you are describing is a navbox, not a TOC, because the links you intend are presumably to the by-century categories rather than to items on the current page.
 * And if that's case, I don't see the point, because the subcat Category:Houses by century of completion lists all the centuries above the fold, and the century categories are interlinked by navseasoncats.
 * I hope I'm missing something, because so far I don't see a problem here. And Template:Compact ToC election decades seems to be of little relevance, because it's a actual TOC for use within articles. --  Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 19:54, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * No, not a navbox, but a TOC. I've tried putting in Template:Large category TOC numeric now, with the aim of being able to jump to e.g. Category:Houses completed in 1800, or at least to Category:Houses completed in 2000, rather than paging through the 512 sub-cats by year. But it doesn't work.
 * Category:Houses completed in 1885 has a TOC so that we can jump to contents e.g. house names beginning with V. It ought to be possible for the parent to have a TOC so that we could jump to contents e.g. years beginning with 18.
 * Sure, the other templates that I mentioned give links to sections within an article rather than members within a category, but I thought there might be some code that could be re-used. – Fayenatic  L ondon 20:11, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Template:TOC top?
I note that this template was on the list for conversion to TOC top as far back as 2012 (pinging User:Thumperward); however, the conversion still hasn't happened, and from a brief skim I don't see any relevant discussion on this talk page either. Is this conversion still planned? Is there something holding it up? Is it just a matter of someone making the change? 「 ディノ 奴 千？！ 」☎ Dinoguy1000 05:24, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

 * There's no way I'm going to recall a discussion from literally a decade ago, and with ~150k page potentially impacted here I'm unlikely to be willing or able to reserve the time to look at it properly. But I'm certainly happy for anyone else thus inclined to have another look at it. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 18:32, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

No border in Vector 2022
I'm not seeing a border around the TOC in Vector 2022. Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pages_using_NBA_roster_footer_with_unknown_parameters?useskin=vector-2022 to see for yourself. It works fine in Vector 2010. Pinging and, who have worked on Template:TOC top/styles.css recently. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:42, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

 * @Jonesey95 I see this. Unless I'm missing something it has a border. [[File:Screenshot of Category-Pages using NBA roster footer with unknown parameters on English Wikipedia.png|thumb]] Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 17:11, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you using Vector 2022 in safe mode? See my screen shot of this template's doc page to the right. This happens to me in Mac OS Firefox and Brave. Category-TOC-screen-shot.png – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:47, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No, not using safe mode. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 00:02, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jonesey95, WP:VPT. Izno (talk) 21:19, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * As a note, "I don't see a border" is skin specific. Timeless does not add borders on its tables of contents. Izno (talk) 21:20, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. I was able to make yet another adjustment to my common.css to work around this bug/oversight. I am wanting to like this beta skin, but I sure have had to work around a lot of bugs and unfinished coding (not to mention the design choices that are not my cup of tea). My favorite so far is the 24px of empty space at the top of the page (see ), which should have been the work of a moment to fix and a nice quick win for the team to trumpet, but it's been moldering for over a month. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:30, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The  class removal was a clear design choice of removal and has a basic rationale that it's simply not needed. The   class removal I'm less thrilled about. Izno (talk) 04:12, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 10 May 2024
Please sync Template:Category TOC/tracking with Template:Category TOC/tracking/sandbox, which updates the categorization after some categories were renamed. (E.g. Category:Template Large category TOC via CatAutoTOC on category with over 20,000 pages is now at Category:Template Large category TOC via Automatic category TOC on category with over 20,000 pages.) Thanks! House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 13:45, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 25 May 2024
Please sync Template:Category TOC/tracking with Template:Category TOC/tracking/sandbox, which updates categorization after Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 23. Thanks, House Blaster  (talk · he/him) 15:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

 * .  P.I. Ellsworth  , ed.  put'er there 18:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Category TOC