text:
Talk:Supreme Leader of Iran

Head of state vs. head of govt.
Tried to at least illustrate the complexity of the situation here. Please feel free to correct. --Jfruh 18:51, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * take a look at the articles on head of state and head of government. there's no universal clear cut definition of the relationship between these two posts and it differs from country to country. i think mentioning the supreme leader as head of state and the president as head of government is perfectly fine. most other encyclopedias have done the same.

 * The UN does not list the Supreme Leader of Iran as its head of state, and the claim made on the article is not verified. --B.Lameira (talk) 18:59, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Can you give a link, please? --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 03:13, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Here it is: United Nations Protocol and Liason Service --B.Lameira (talk) 21:17, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Supreme Jurisprudent?
An article on Salon uses the phrase "Supreme Jurisprudent" to refer to this office. Can anyone (particularly anyone who reads or speaks Farsi) comment? --Jfruh 16:14, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

 * the "supreme leader" is also referred to as "the jurisprudent guardian" (the technical religous term for this position, see Velayat-e faqih). but there is no such thing as "supreme jurisprudent", it's obviously an inaccurate translation or incorrect mix of the two titles mentioned.

Capitalization of "Leader"
Hi there! I moved this page from a non-capitalized page, to one where the word "leader" is capitalized. I hope it wasn't done in error, but if so, let me know so we can fix it again. --HappyCamper 02:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The current title is the correct one. Thanks for the move. Green Giant 23:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

editprotected
Someone should stick a sprotected or protected on it. 68.39.174.238 11:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I've unprotected to article instead. From the history it looks as if SlimVirgin forgot to unprotect the page when she remvoes the template. —Ruud 17:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

'Plain' English??
Having just read the article, I feel more confused than before. Those veeeeeery long sentences, with their many subordinate clauses and parentheses, need breaking up into digestible chunks. Some of the syntax is questionable anyway. 86.137.145.22 11:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

changed the pictures
I changed the pictures so the article looks better. I don't know how to resize pictures, but I think this looks alright.

Closed loop
This is absurd, such a loop can be find almost everywhere. As a matter of fact the notion of having checks and balances often implies such loops. I guess the author misunderstood this as a petitio principii (circular logic) which is a fallacy.

There is no such thing as "Supreme" leader in Iran's constitution
The official title is "Leader", according to the constitution. "Supreme" (in fact different Persian synonyms) is often used as a sign of respect,.... This has to be corrected in all the pages and I don't know how. I also do not know why all English media do this mistake, maybe because of the similarity that they think exists between Iran and N. Korea.

needs a transliteration of the title in Persian.

"The Supreme Leader is Iran's Head of State, with the President of Iran being head of government." This directly conflicts with the Iran page, which calls the president head of state.
 * the president is most certainly not the head of state in Iran. if that's what it says in the Iran page then it should be corrected. most sources call the leader the head of state and the president the head of government.

 * You guys should sign your name. Supreme leader is the name most widely used in English, (probably because it sounds cool and is used in many sci-fi books and games!). For this reason I think the title should remain, but I've added a note explaining this. Regarding head of state, he is obviously the top authority and hence the "head" of the state.--Gerash77 04:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Requirements to be the Supreme Leader?
What are the requirements for somebody to be the Supreme Leader of Iran? And who is the most likely to succeed Ali Khamenei as the Supreme Leader? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.5.148 (talk) 20:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed surly how one is appointed to the position is highly relevant to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.252.65.57 (talk) 15:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

See Assembly of Experts — Preceding unsigned comment added by I am Great (talk • contribs) 17:08, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Second Supreme Leader?
Iran has had two Supreme Leaders. Currently the post is occupied by Ali Khamenei. ---

Who is the second, was one appointed, more information please .. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.97.202.226 (talk) 16:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Khamenei is the second. Khomeini was the first. He's dead. Mike R (talk) 14:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Rahbar=Leader?
I am not sure the word "Rahbar" in persian should be translated as "Leader". Its meaning is closer to the english term "guide". and "muazzam" should be translated as "great" or "greatest" not "supreme". 85.97.67.51 (talk) 04:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The term "Supreme Leader" is almost the exclusive translation of the title, and so it is what this article will use. If you have reliable sources that show alternative translations, then they may be included (just as the article states that the constitution only calls the title "Leader", not "Supreme Leader". --  At am a chat 23:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Other Ayatollahs
This article mentions Khoi, Sistanti, Haeri Yazdi, but can someone shed some light on influential clerics such as Shariatmadari (who promoted Khomeini to the status of marja to save his life from the Shah who was going to execute Khomeini but couldn't because in the constitution it states a marja has immunity from death penalty), and also Taleqani. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.104.208 (talk) 09:46, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Leader not Supreme Leader
The constituion says 'Leader' so that's what it should say in the article.99.247.60.143 (talk) 17:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The English translation is the "Supreme Leader" WhisperToMe (talk) 21:53, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Which translation? This version of the constitution talks only of 'leader' - []. The Ecyclopedia Britannica uses "rahbar, or leader" []. It seems wrong to me that this article seems to perpetuate an erroneous myth.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ( ♥ Talk ♥ ) 04:19, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Alternative language websites
If there are additional wikipedia articles about this subject created in other languages, these external links should be inserted in them: WhisperToMe (talk) 22:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Azeri: http://www.leader.ir/langs/az/
 * Bahasa Indonesia: http://www.leader.ir/langs/id/
 * Kiswahili: http://www.leader.ir/langs/sw/
 * Turkish: http://www.leader.ir/langs/tr/
 * Urdu: http://www.leader.ir/langs/ur/

Supreme Leader Redirect
Should Supreme Leader really redirect straight to Supreme Leader of Iran? Perhaps instead Supreme Leader (disambiguation) or at the very least a bit at the beginning which gives a link to the disambiguation page. Iamstupido (talk) 08:11, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Khomeini Life Span
The list of Supreme Leaders section shows the life span of Ruhollah Mousavi Khomeini as "1985-1902))." Someone should change this to "(1902-1985)," but the edit page is very confusing, and I don't want to make it any worse.

Residence
Iran Supreme Leader's residence is not in Niavaran Palace.the info and the source is not valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I am Great (talk • contribs) 17:02, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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RfC on use of "Supreme Leader" when the title does not appear to exist outside Journalism
It seems that, although the title "Supreme Leader" is widely used to refer to the Leader of Iran, it doesn't exist in the Iranian Constitution [], nor is it used by the Encyclopedia Britannica [], both of which use the term Leader. Discussion on this page seems to have ignored this, because it sounds cool, kinda Sc-Fi, etc. What can be done?  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ( ♥ Talk ♥ ) 04:50, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Nothing - What the Iranian constitution calls him is a technicality. Encyclopedia Britannica is one source out of many. The only thing that really matters in this case is what the majority of English language sources call the guy (see WP:COMMONNAME). As far as I'm aware, he's usually called "Supreme Leader". That said, I haven't researched this too deeply.... NickCT (talk) 14:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your contribution NickCT! The Iranian Constitution is cited as the source for this title in the lede, even though it does not contain "supreme leader". I am not an expert either, and find it a little confusing, but WP:COMMONNAME seems to say that Enyclopedia's carry extra weight, and that inaccurate names should be avoided. -

Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. Neutrality is also considered; our policy on neutral titles, and what neutrality in titles is, follows in the next section. Article titles should be neither vulgar (unless unavoidable) nor pedantic. When there are multiple names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others.

Although official, scientific, birth, original, or trademarked names are often used for article titles, the term or name most typically used in reliable sources is generally preferred. Other encyclopedias are among the sources that may be helpful in deciding what titles are in an encyclopedic register, as well as what names are most frequently used.  ♥ L'Origine du monde ♥  ( ♥ Talk ♥ ) 15:34, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * - Ok listen. I'm not going to comment on whether "Supreme Leader" is common or accurate b/c I'm not super well informed on the topic. I will say that if you think there should be a name change, you ought to figure out what the common and accurate name is, then put in a requested move. That would probably be the quickest route to action. NickCT (talk) 15:10, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Update - After taking a quick look at the sources, I'm pretty sure "Supreme Leader" is the most common name. I'm looking for other common names, but I can't find any. Sources not using "Supreme Leader" tend to use verbiage unique to that source (e.g. "Iran's spiritual leader and highest authority"). I appreciate the potential accuracy issues here. I agree that it's sometimes OK to pick a slightly less common name over a most common name in cases where that less common name is obviously more accurate. The problem with doing that here is that there don't appear to be any common names outside of "Supreme Leader". If you have one, you should point to it. Otherwise, I think we stick to "Supreme Leader". NickCT (talk) 15:21, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

"Supreme Leader" seems to be the title of choice, including "outside of journalism". As far as I can tell, the English journalistic usage reflects the Iranian journalistic usage, and Iranian governmental websites in English (http://leader.ir/en). Since this is clearly the most widely used title, and the discrepancy with the constitution is clearly indicated ("The title "Supreme" Leader (Persian: رهبر معظم, translit. rahbar-e mo'azzam) is often used as a sign of respect; however, this is not found in the Constitution, which simply refers to the "Leader" (رهبر, rahbar)"), my view is that the usage "Supreme Leader" should remain. Sakuranohi (talk) 20:12, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Ali Khamenei crop.jpg
 * Ali Khamenei met with Hajj authorities 2018 09.jpg

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:17, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
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There's no office in Iran as "Supreme Leader"
The "Supreme" in the title isn't a correct translation of the Persian or Arabic word. The closest meaning I can think of is Respected. 'Azeem means great. Ta'zeem is to regard as great, to respect. Mu'azzam is regarded as great, respected. Thus, the title should read "the Respected Leader" simply for respect, hence an unofficial designation, not originally part of the title. Note that Iran-based opposition commonly drop the "Respected" part to avoid -you guessed right- respect. Khamenei's office website (excuse the header) and PressTV almost exclusively use the Leader or the Leader of the Islamic Revolution. "Supreme Leader" seems pointedly popularized in English journalism to further stress his allegedly being "the highest authority and last say in all matters", inadvertently picked up by local English PR.

According the Guidelines, "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. Neutrality is also considered;" EdelAli (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Ĵesus
Peace between you and Israel. Jesus is comming back with a vengeance to those who opose him. You must make peace. Or you shall all perish. Mark mu words. A-men. No nukes permited. 47.55.177.92 (talk) 01:05, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

No reference
Some paragraphs don't have references 91.106.93.206 (talk) 19:04, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

My Love Khamenei
تنها شخصی که آمریکا ازش حساب میبره و میترسه 5.212.50.155 (talk) 11:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

بسیج بی ترمز ایران کشور جمهوری اسلامی
گر ایران نباشد تن من زنده نباشد شعار جاودان ایران وکلا ایران در تمام سختی وخوشی همین بود و هست. 46.51.84.179 (talk) 21:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Supreme Leader of Iran


text:
User talk:Oleg Alexandrov/Archive1

Please write here any comments you might have related to any articles I modified or anything else.

Stochastic gradient descent
Hello, Oleg. Could you perhaps clarify your comment about that page? Did you mean I should define on-line gradient descent in addition to stochastic gradient descent? (They are both the same). Or, did you want to see math? I think I defined it in words, but it it is not clear, let me know. -- hike395 03:15, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Re: Stochastic gradient descent
Hi Hike395,

Maybe you should mention that on-line gradient descent is the same as stochastic gradient descent. Maybe it is because I know nothing about this, but it was not clear for me from reading that page that they are the same. What do you think?

Newton's method
I thought about it for a long while, and I think you are right, 'to find' is better than 'to finding'. --Oleg

 * I'm not a native speaker of English, so I had to consult some dictionaries before I was sure about it. But I still find it hard to explain exactly why the infinitive ('find') should be used.
 * By the way, thanks for the nice pictures and other edits. A bit of housekeeping: if you replace a picture by another picture with a different name, and the first picture is not used on any other pages, you can make sure that it is deleted by following the instructions on Images and media for deletion. I did this for the picture in Newton's method. -- Jitse Niesen 12:51, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your suggestion about the picuture. I thought it was going to be deleted automatically after a while, probably not. I will know this from now on. --Oleg Nov 24 10:05:18 PST 2004

Hamilton-Jacobi-Bellman equation
Hi Oleg, sorry, I didn't mean to offend or anything. In my edit summary, I wrote "changed parentheses (again)..." because you had just changed the parentheses, and then I changed them again. — [[User:Knowledge Seeker|Knowledge Seeker দ (talk)]] 23:42, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Integer square root
Hi Olegalexandrov. I was planning on editing the page again, but wanted to consult you beforehand. I think that the apostrophe in the bottom link needs to be escaped; otherwise Wikipedia fails to recognize the enclosed text as a link. On the flip-side, thanks for cleaning up after me! I messed up on standardization of 'x' and 'n', 'x_n', and 'valid' is much better than 'correct'. I am wondering, however, about your excess of links. For the words (take 'number theory' for example) that are throughout the document, I personally think that only one reference should be linked, presumably at the top. Since that was a bulk of your edit, though, I decided to ask you beforehand; I didn't want to completely reverse your edit! ('Recursive function' is also linked more than once.) Also, I completely realize my ambiguity in the statement, "The beauty of Newton's Iteration for finding the integer square root of a number n is that it can use solely integers," and was wondering what you thought about this statement: "The beauty of Newton's Iteration as used to find the integer square root of a number n is its inherent ability to stay within the set of integers, requiring no use of floating-point arithmetic." That was definitely what I trying to get at. Thanks! --Iamunknown 08:45, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the info about the excess links; I will be reverting that soon. I do mean that every operation can be performed in integers.  About the statement, ""I mean the function itself is wholly algebraic.  It uses fractions, yes, but fractions are merely two integers placed atop and beneath one another.  Keeping that into perspective, you could retain their integer identites and continue on with your calculation (still remaining in the set of integers) and when you have reached the desired accuracy, then do your final division.
 * --Iamunknown 21:50, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wow. I love your complete edit of the page now. It is a lot better, I must say. Where did you learn to write so expositorally like that? I feel like I'm reading a research paper; it's so well improved! Thanks! --Iamunknown 16:00, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Oleg, you said in my user talk page that you worked out a proof of the necessity for error compensation using Newton's method for finding the integer square root. I personally don't know how you would go about proving it, but if you feel that it is appropriate for the article (if it isn't too long or complex, I would assume), then feel free to put it in there. I personally would love that; I find mathematical proofs enjoyable to create! Thanks! --Iamunknown 18:24, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Level set
I understand where you're coming from, though Wikipedia's math articles are not a set of math papers, however. Having the proof in it's own subsection is only set to logically organize the page, though your point about mentioning a theorem without describing which it is, is well taken, and I'll twiddle the page again. Dysprosia 05:30, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * You also don't need to remove talk from my talk page :) Welcome, by the way! I hope you like the place and choose to stay. Nice to see another math person, even though you are in Applied ;) If you've any other questions don't hesitate to ask me or make a note on the (albeit massive) Village Pump. Thanks, and happy editing... Dysprosia 05:39, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia articles have a reputation for being difficult to understand by the layperson. That wording was aimed to try to make it less so. Dysprosia 05:44, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * The removal thing may well be a bug, since we've just upgraded to a new version of the software. Dysprosia 05:50, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * We've stated the theorem and said it's a fact, rightly so. Consider placing the word "theorem" before - a layperson who would not know what a theorem is would be put off by this. Alternatively one could say "There is a fact (a theorem), that ...", but this sounds strange. I'm saying the proof section should go in a new subheading, not the "This fact" section. I thought it would sound more like a discussion or textual (I can't find the word right now) by using a single paragraph, but that can probably be twiddled around. If you've got a good idea, be bold and try it out :) Dysprosia 01:12, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think you are complicating things. OK, I see your point, we should not confuse the lay people. But you cannot simplify things indefinitely. Anybody going to the level set page would first see a mathematical definition of level sets, which includes a set notation in n variables, which is not encouraging for lay people, but this is life! I would not want that thing changed. Now, if your supposedly naive layperson was not put off by that, when that person moves to the section called "level sets versus gradient", s/he will be sufficiently hardened not to faint when seeing the word "Theorem". Do you agree?

Now, you put the proof in a separate subsection. This is not good I would say, and for two reasons. First, you need to then put the theorem itself in a subsection, otherwise it does not make much sense. Second, people visiting that page will not figure out why the proof is in a subsection, because there is not too much material to be organized in the "level sets versus gradient" section. What they will see is the word "Proof" put without punctuation and with a fat bold font almost in the center of the page. This is a big lack of style, and no, our layperson would not like "Proof" in big boldface more than that person would like proof in small bold face at the beginning of paragraph.

All that said, if that lay person is not smart enough to gloss over technicalities and to look just at the paragraph about the hikers, that person is hopeless. Let us not converge towards the lowest dumbed down denominator, and keep things clear. I reverted the page to its original condition, linking to the word theorem. --Oleg Alexandrov 16:39, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also put a picture. Hopefully this will compensate for maybe too much math lingo (although I see no way to avoid it in this setting, and I am not sure we should). --Oleg Alexandrov 23:10, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * If you are happy, I am happy. However,
 * What they will see is the word "Proof" put without punctuation and with a fat bold font almost in the center of the page. This is a big lack of style, and no, our layperson would not like "Proof" in big boldface more than that person would like proof in small bold face at the beginning of paragraph.
 * Articles need to be structured, with the heading markup. This means a table of contents will be generated. Whether or not the font is too large is not really the issue - that is the responsibility of the CSS. Unfortunately, we don't have one CSS for the non-math articles and another for the math articles (which would be ideal). Regardless, I'll leave the article alone for the time being.
 * Thanks Dysprosia 00:36, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I do agree articles need to be structured, and have nothing against tables of contents :) It is just there is not much to structure there. If we put the proof as a subsection, we will get an article with one section which contains one subsection. If this article gets bigger, more structure might be necessary. Oleg Alexandrov 01:24, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Pekeris and the Helium atom
Hi, I just noticed your addition of a request for Pekeris and the Helium atom, and I was wondering what that one's about - it doesn't sound like your typical mathematical term. ^_~ -- Schneelocke (cheeks clone)   12:59, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * First, it was not me who mentioned "Pekeris and the Helium atom" in the Calculus of variations page. There was even some kind of improperly written link to Pekeris and the Helium atom. So, all I did, was to put that link in good shape, and request the actual article. There is something about Pekeris and stuff on the following page: Graduate Course: Quantum Physics, but I don't know anything of this kind of things. If you think the request is inapproapriate, we can remove it. --Oleg Alexandrov 19:51, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Actually, I have an idea. The page Graduate Course: Quantum Physics I mentioned, was last updated less than a year ago. I bet that the prof who wrote it is alive and well, and might even be willing to contribute that text or a rephrased version on the actual page. Should we ask him to do that? --Oleg Alexandrov 19:55, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh, I didn't think it was inappropriate - I was just wondering what it was about. -- Schneelocke (cheeks clone)   10:27, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Got it. So, from what I saw on that link I mentioned above, a guy called Pekeris made great contributions to modeling the Helium atom, and that thing seems to be a very important example of the variational principle, about which the page which links to Pekeris and the Helium atom is taling about. --Oleg Alexandrov 16:21, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Korean Buddhism
Oleg, do you realise that the influence of Christianity has led to the decline of Buddhism in Korea? I tell you why:

 * Christianity exceeded Buddhism as the leading religion. The current statistics is that Christianity is followed by South Korea's 35% of its total population while Buddhism had only 26%.

 * The Christianity in Korea is expanding and will not decrease. Generally, Buddhist can convert to Christian, but not Christian to Buddhist. Seeing from Christianity in Korea that they want to establish Christianity in Korea at this rate, the future of the Buddhist influence will be overshadowed by Christian influence.

 * If you find it relavant, then please put it back. Thanks.

 * Well, this suggestion is good, but place it there first in the meantime. Help me to put it up the question again, but in an differnet orientation. Furthermore, Buddhism has generated a lot of culture upon Korean culture, but with Christianity it might destroy to some extent its culture, and at this rate, the Koreans may be the first group of Asians like the Hawaiians to face cultural destruction. I'm not purposely condemning about Christianity, even though I was a Christian. If this offends you, then I"ll apologise.

 * If there is anything wrong gramatically wrong in my sentence structre, I strongly urge you to help me correct the sentences into proper English.

 * There it is, Talk:Korean Buddhism. Please help out whatever you can. I tell you, I'm not an anarchist. Neither do I have the intention of pushing one's agenda or condemning Christianity by purpose. It is just my intention, as a Wikipedian, to reveal the true facts about thr fate of Buddhism, though someone's harsh words have to be added in. Improve it if you can. Thank you.

User:Chan Han Xiang

De Moivre's formula
Thanks for cleaning up my proof. I am, after all, just a lowly undergrad (a Software Engineer, no less!), but one with an interest in mathematics. Just a question: wouldn't this more aptly be called De Moivre's Theorem?-- Revived 04:25, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The standard name is De Moivre's formula and there is nothing we can do about it. You are right, it is a theorem. Oleg Alexandrov 04:29, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Spectrum of an operator (respose)
Yes, I agree the spectrum article could use a lot of improvement. That's why I put a link to Self-adjoint operator which is more complete in my opinion. CSTAR 21:49, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Lambert's Cosine Law
Hello - you wrote in Lambert's cosine law:

"In other words, a part of a body which faces you straight on, will appear brighter than the part which faces you under an angle."

This contradicts what I wrote a bit later:

"In other words, when looking at a Lambertian area element, it always looks just as bright, no matter which direction you look at it from, and the only reason that you get less total light from it is because you are looking at it from an angle, which makes it appear smaller that if you looked at it head-on."

I am quite sure that the first sentence is incorrect and should be removed. I will do this soon, unless I hear from you, ok?

Paul Reiser 01:11, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You are right that I did not pay very careful attention at what you wrote below. Sorry. That paragraph was just so long I could not concentrate my attention until the end. I have a question to you. You say that something looks just as bright no matter what the angle. But then you say that you get less light if you look under an angle. How do you reconcile these? I mean, if you get less light, it must appear less bright, no?

Please remove my text (sorry and thanks). But it would a mistake I think to put the text back into one or two big paragraphs. My main motivation for what I did is to make small paragraphs, and jump early on to the point of what this law is about. So that text needs some rearrangement. Oleg Alexandrov 01:23, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I will rewrite it. I will try to put in a clearer explanation of the apparent contradiction as well. Paul Reiser 15:18, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Essential spectrum
I think more on essential particularly for self-adjoint operators would be useful, particularly some stability prioperties under compact perturbations. Maybe in another article. I'll try to get around to this sometime soon. CSTAR 09:02, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Until I started the article essential spectrum I did not know anything whatsoever about that :) I just wanted to have an article on that, to remove it from Requested articles/mathematics. I am sure there is much to be said about essential spectrum. Also, the page on spectrum itself badly needs reworking. There is more to spectrum than just point spectrum and everything else. So, good luck! Oleg Alexandrov 16:19, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

modulo (computing)
I've made this a redirect page. If it really needs to be separate from modular arithmetic, it should be made ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that people in computing are not the only ones who used this term nor the ones who invented it. People in computing find it VERY DIFFICULT to understand that some things were invented more than 25 years ago, and by people who are not in computer science. They think they invented mathematical induction, numbers, geometry, and language, and reading and writing, all within the last 25 years. Michael Hardy 00:53, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Replied to you on your talk page (atually, I started writing to you at the same time you started writing to me). Let's continue there. Oleg Alexandrov 01:13, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi,replied to your talk asking about the link to additive polynomials on the modular arithmetic page. Not sure what to say. The modular arithmetic page provides an extremely narrow definition of an absolutely giant and very hot topic of current mathematical research. I don't know how to reconcile what's there with the broader reality. Maybe have two different pages on the topic?   For example, it almost manages to mention that every abelian group factorizes into Z/Zp and is thus isomorphic to the integers, but then ducks for cover before actually completeing the sentance.  This article doesn't even link to module (mathematics) which is one of the key concepts under the idea of modular arithmetic. linas 21:17, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi, your last edit to the page modular arithmetic introduced a number of errors. Fields are not the same as rings, although they are similar in many ways. Next, modular arithmetic is defined not just on integers, but also on polynomials, on polynomial rings, on fields, on modules, and very importantly on function fields, which is where many of the results of modern mathematics are coming from. In particular, modular arithmetic is defined on both finite and infinite fields, and many of the important properties hold only on infinite fields. These infinite fields contain Fp and the correct notation is Fp and not Z/Zp, even though to a novice it may appear that Fp and Z/Zp are "the same thing".  They are not.

 * This is similar to another error with the article on modular arithmetic makes over and over. It persistantly confuses the abelian group Z/Zn with the ring Z/Zn. Although the same notation is used to denote both items, they are not the same thing. In particular, the abelian group Z/Zn is isomorphic to the abelian group Z/Zp1 x Z/Zp2 x Z/Zp3... where the integer n has the prime factors p1,p2, p3...  This is an important theorm due to Abel, which is why they are called "abelian". This isomorphism  does NOT hold for the ring Z/Zn. Thus, the group Z/Zn is abelian, the ring Z/Zn is not.

 * I'm frustrated that I have to explain this; please don't revert my edits unless you actually happen to understand the topic in sufficient detail to actually correct the mistakes that I do make. linas 01:49, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * From the previous message: Whatever does this mean?

 * "Thus, the group Z/Zn is abelian, the ring Z/ Zn is not."

 * Z is a commutative ring then so is any quotient. (I'd better have a look at that article). Also the Chinese remainder theorem is a theorem about rings. And abelian groups are called abelian because of Abel's contributions to the solvability of equations. Hmmm. CSTAR 04:37, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Edit summary
Hello. Please provide an edit summary. Thanks and happy edits. Hyacinth 02:25, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I suggest reading the Wikipedia policy at Edit summary. To summarize:
 * "Always fill the summary field. Even a short summary is better than no summary."
 * If you have a problem with the policy I suggest you take it up at Wikipedia talk:Edit summary and not with me personally.
 * Again, thanks. Hyacinth 03:28, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Please notice the "please" and "thank you" in my original message, and the link to Edit summary hidden as "edit summary" in the sentence, "Please provide an edit summary."

As to the specific unsummarized edit I noticed, I believe it was on 17:01, 3 Jan 2005 to Modular arithmetic. You can easily verify that both of us have left edits unsummarized by clicking "My contributions" or going to User:Hyacinth and clicking "User contributions", respectively. Given this and that I politely asked you to provide an edit summary and directed you to Edit summary, I do not consider my message an accusation but a request. Hyacinth 04:33, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Truce. Hyacinth 04:55, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * See Requests for comment. Hyacinth 04:57, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

modulo funtion
Hi, I'm a bit short of time at the moment. I have never seen "n mod m" (whatever the notation) used in a mathematical paper except with m > 0. In the case of m > 0, n mod m is periodic in n - that means it is >= 0 always and satisfies (n1+n2) mod m = n1 mod m + n2 mod m. In the case of programming languages, the rules vary. In C, it used to be that both n/m and n%m were implementation-defined for m<0 but the latest standard requires n/m to be truncated towards 0 and n%m is defined to equal n - m*(n/m). I'll look at sequence soon. --Zero 13:16, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Matrix vs matrix theory
Hi, I have noticed your discussion on Talk:matrix (mathematics). I am having similar problems with graph (mathematics) and graph theory. Perhaps you want to have a look at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics where I started a discussion on this subject. And welcome by the way :) MathMartin 12:40, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Your msg headed Real
In creating User talk:Jerzy, it would seem you confused me somehow with User:Redux. --Jerzy(t) 03:34, 2005 Jan 10 (UTC) (P.S.: In case it was a spelling error rather than a typo, "curios" is a plural noun (whose O is pronounced as a "long vowel", and whose S is a voiced consonant like nearly all Zs) having to do, i think, with collectibles, and had me scratching my head about cruzeiros. But on reflection, no doubt you meant "curious" (whose OU is pronounced as a schwa, and whose S is an voiceless consonant  like nearly all initial Ss and all double Ss (and many but not most terminal single Ss). I don't mean to presume to lecture, and please accept my apology if this tip is redundant or otherwise unwelcome.)

slope
Yeah, now thst I look at it, "undefined" is the correct term. Thanks. - Evil saltine 06:56, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Real
Hi. Actually, VampWillow was the one to put the currency article at the top, which he probably did because the article about it used to occupy that denomination (and was moved to its present location in order to make room for a Disambiguation article). But in any case, it was a random placing, since VampWillow did not do it for any particular reason other than that being the article that used to be there. He also entered the few first meanings, which he listed at random also, and every other entry after that was made at the bottom of the existing list. This ensures a neutral list, and avoids contestation. I do not believe that any list on disambiguation pages are organized by "usage frequency" (on which I'm not quite clear as to what it means), which makes it an unestablished criterium (thus would need to be proposed before being implemented, exactly to prevent controversies). Personally, I found it particular that a whole new criterium would entail only one shift in the list (that, again, had been organized at random), which led me to suspect bias (sorry if that was not the case). It would appear to be better to leave the randomly organized list as it is, so no one can contest it, after all, there's always someone with a criterium they think is better to organize an article, a list, etc. About the sock puppet, well your user name is Oleg Alexandrov, and I noticed, in the History Page, that the edit before yours had been made by a user by the name of Olegalexandrov. The similarity of the names leads to the conclusion that both accounts belong to the same person, which would make one of them a sock puppet, something discouraged at Wikipedia (sorry again if that was not the case also). Regards, Redux 13:08, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Red links
In your recent edit at European Union, you stated that it was inappropriate to link to an empty page. As far as I know, there is no policy against linking to non-existant articles. To the contrary, editors are encouraged to use wikilinks in appropriate places to show that there is not yet an article on that subject. Many articles are the result of someone seeing a red link and deciding to help expand Wikipedia. Do you think that the name "Status of the European Union" is itself inappropriate, or are you objecting to something else? — Saxifrage | ☎ 02:25, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Replied on User talk:Saxifrage. Oleg Alexandrov 02:42, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Period at end of equation
About putting a period at the end of an equation, you may be right. I couldn't find anything on the Wikipedia pages for style. I will find a style manual and check it out. Michael Hardy might be a good person to ask too. Paul Reiser 09:47, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi Oleg - According to Michael periods are correct. Paul Reiser 23:03, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Essential spectrum
Are you sure about the definition you wrote? I have a reference (Sandstede, Stability of travelling waves) which states that the essential spectrum of the operator T is the spectrum minus the point spectrum, and the point spectrum is where the operator $T - \lambda I$ is Fredholm with index zero. It is of course well possible that different definitions float through the literature. -- Jitse Niesen 21:05, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Inappropriate use of term "vandalism", and (in my opinion) inappropriate deletion
Reviewing your recent change to Aircraft, it seems to me that an addition to the reference to the movie Airplane! of the use of the word as an alternative to the band Jefferson Airplane by User:66.177.33.232 does not constitute vandalism. In the context of the paragraph, it appears to me to be an appropriate addition, owing to the redirection of Airplane to Aircraft, which should probably be changed to a disambiguation page to contain the two off (aircraft) topic references. Any objections? Best wishes, Leonard G. 06:40, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the response and disambiguation addition. I had browsed edits by that IP# and it appears that it is not fixed (or perhaps in use by various family members), being used by a number of editors with various styles and interests. Leonard G. 19:08, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Parzen window
Hi Oleg. I looked at Parzen window and it seems like a good stub to me. I don't see any problems with the existing material. Of course it can be expanded; I'll put it on my to-do list. The most obvious related concept (to me) is the Gaussian mixture model; maybe you or I can add something about that. Regards, Wile E. Heresiarch 07:03, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Unfortunately I know nothing of the latter topic. Sorry. Thanks for your attention. Oleg Alexandrov 08:10, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Rouche's theorem
Thanks for your efforts to clean up Rouche's theorem! It's always better when another's looking and editing a page. Dysprosia 10:10, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I do prefer the proof method that simply relied on using the rules of differentiation and a little basic algebra. Regardless, I have tried to derive
 * $${h'(z) \over h(z)}=\frac{f'(z)}{f(z)}+\frac{\left(1+g(z)/f(z)\right)'}{1+g(z)/f(z)},$$

in the article, but I don't believe it is the best, nor an absolutely adequate explanation. It would be best if you personally filled in your derivation. Could you do so? Thanks Dysprosia 00:39, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * No, I know it's not odd, that was poor wording on my part, but I didn't like how it looked, nor it providing yet-another-acronym. Even the QED article itself says it's not commonly used. I tried to do the pipe as a compromise, but I think I'll switch back to the square, as it's a little more subtle. Dysprosia 23:04, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Edit summary
Don't bug me, man. -- CYD

Rate of convergence
Thanks for the reminder. I now checked some references and added a bit to the article. -- Jitse Niesen 19:19, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The references all use mu > 0, except perhaps the Burden and Faires book (I don't feel like going to the library to check it). Note that the sequence 1 / 2^(n^2 2^n) is quadratic convergent under the "extended" definition even when we add the requirement mu > 0, because it is dominated by the quadratic convergent sequence 1 / 2^(2^n).

Re essential spectrum: I checked and we only need Banach space. Of course, self-adjoint only exists in a Hilbert-space setting; thanks for spotting that.

Re WikiProject Mathematics: I agree; actually, I thought about rewriting the page myself but I decided that there are more important things to do at the moment. The only detail I disagree with that I don't see the need to split the page up. Perhaps we should split out the participants that are no longer active (while of course being careful not to step on somebody's toes). -- Jitse Niesen 11:13, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Polynomial ring
Hey, Oleg,the problem with "the" ring is that it fails to define what polynomial multiplication is. Quick: what is x^2 times (x+1) ? well, it could be x^3+x^2 using canonical multiplication, or it could be (x+1)^2 = x^2+2x+1 if compostion is taken to be the way that multiplication is done. The latter form is not isomorphic; but it is also a polynomial ring.linas 06:54, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Invitation to a discussion about modulo and modular arithmetic
"Invitation to a discussion about modulo and modular arithmetic" is moved to Talk:modular arithmetic

Happy Number Code
Sorry it got voted for deletion. Don't worry about it, it's not a problem, no harm done, everyone understands that the submission was well-meant and was made in good faith. Hope you continue to contribute to Wikipedia, sorry if you got a rough introduction. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:57, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Arghh
Oleg, I get angry every time I have to communicate with you, and I do not enjoy being angry. I think you are wrong on a lot of issues, and I think that things would be a lot better if you stop editing the articles that I work on, and I will make a point of not editing any articles that you start. OK?

I think you introduced a number of errors in the additive polynomial article. I have been struggling to understand what they are and how they work. I have produced many graphs of them, they are on display at the web page Numberetic. I am currently trying to use geometry to understand them, and for you to come in and make these edits and just go "oh these are trivial theorems, except I don't understand what the field F_p is" is just plain wrong. linas 05:47, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Bypassing redirects
A saw you changed [Newtons difference method|Newton's difference method] to [Newton polynomial|Newton's difference method] to bypass a redirect on polynomial. I do not consider this a good change. A redirect is inexpensive and provides more information than a direct link. Before your change I could have used the what links here function in the toolbar to show me all links to Newton polynomial and the redirect Newtons difference method would give my a hint as to what sort of information the user is looking for when he visits the page from polynomial. Now this information is lost. MathMartin 15:10, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

reply from LiDaobing
OK, I got it.--LiDaobing 02:42, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Nothing--LiDaobing 02:50, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Inconsistency
You say, “removed the technical analysis part, that should be in a dictionary,”

Maybe so, but how is this any different than the definition that you left in Statistics?

 * In Statistics, a trend is a long-term movement in time series data after other components have been accounted for;

 * In technical analysis the existing general direction of movement of energy expressed as the relationship between prices. "the trend is your friend!”  Dr George Lane  GT

Trend Quotes
Should the second quote, made by the same person who made the third quote, be separately attributed to the quoter?

Nice job, thanks!! GT

Trend Quotes 2
Aloha, I put the quote. I was wondering what was the correct way to quote it. The bullets seem to separate. GT

 * Got it now. I don't know what to advice though. Oleg Alexandrov | talk 18:36, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Questions

 * Where can we post a page that needs attention so that someone can fix it?

 * Do you only highlight a word the first time it is used on a page, or in a sentence etc?

 * I usually read web pages from the bottom up. Scan down, read up.  If I do not understand something I want to click on it then not go looking on a part of the page that does not interest me to find a link.

 * It does not seem right to use a word in its definition. When you do not understand the word it can only confuse.  What is the story on this? GT

you better obey
GT

Happy number
Hi Oleg, I removed some text you added to happy number. Please see Talk:Happy number. Do you actually have proofs of those facts? It appears from happy number code that you only checked 163 cases; I'm surprised you would think that simply checking could constitute a proof.

Curiously, dbenbenn | talk 21:37, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PM exchange lists
Oleg: Before you go to the trouble of generating all the PM Exchange lists, It might be good if we made the "announcement" I suggested first, to make sure anyone who hasn't been following the discussion here, and wants to comment on it gets a chance to. Paul August ? 05:49, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * Replied on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics/PlanetMath Exchange. Oleg Alexandrov | talk 06:04, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
For all your work in driving the WP:PMEX project forward at a fast pace, discussion on talk pages, and generation of the list of articles when not asked, I award you this barnstar. Feel free to put it on your user page. CryptoDerk 16:24, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, well. It was lots and lots of joint work, and all I did was to write a text-eating and text-spitting perl script. But you lifted my mood this morning! :) Oleg Alexandrov | talk 18:14, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Indeterminate
I thought about indeterminate a while. The way I saw it, it fit best in the polynomial article (especially since indeterminate has a link to polynomial and the polynomial article didn't use the term once). What I inserted was basically a restatement of the first sentence of the PM article. Maybe there is some nuance of indeterminates I don't understand, but what I basically get is "If you have an equation involving polynomials, some variables are either indeterminates or one can solve for them" and "Knowing whether some variables are indeterminates or not may allow us to gain knowledge about other variables". I'm not sure if that even warrants mentioning anywhere, and if it does, if it should go in the polynomial article or somewhere else. CryptoDerk 19:24, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * Ah, ok, gotcha. Yeah, it may be best to copy it over and even expand on it a bit.  CryptoDerk 19:56, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)

release notes or details
I don't know whether anyone has written about this, nor exactly where to find the release notes. Please add that information if you find it. Questions about this are probably best directed to the mailing list for the MediaWiki software - that's where the people who implemented the change are to be found. Jamesday 21:43, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Oleg Alexandrov | talk 22:04, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Copyright
What is the story here? If we find stuff on the net we can use it in discussions but not on the main pages? GT
 * Replied on your page. Oleg Alexandrov | talk 22:04, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
I thought history would hold it. GT

Congrats
Could not resist. Congratulations! It seems you want it really badly (unlike other people :) From my past experience, you will do a good job! Good luck! Oleg Alexandrov 05:14, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliment! dbenbenn | talk 06:42, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure?
Oleg, are you sure you are not Zundark?

Thanks for fixing my typo, I don't quite understand how this error occured. By the way, are you standing over my shoulder, watching everything I do? I'd better put some clothes on I quess ;-) Paul August ☎ 20:36, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry...
I didn't think it was such a taboo. Besides, I just didn't want the Wikiportal to end up like so many projects- long-forgotten or never started. Once again, I apologize. ral315 04:53, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * I certainly overreacted. But the right way to start a new math project should have been accomplished by going to the existing math project (which has been here for at least several years), putting in your idea, and looking for feedback. You decided to first make a project yourself, and then "advertise it". It is harder to attract interest this way. Oleg Alexandrov 05:10, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Encoding issues
Thanks for the correction of my WP:PMEX edit. I analysed "ErdÃ¶s" and found out that it is a UTF-8 byte sequence of "Erdös" interpreted as an ISO-8859-1 byte sequence. Are you interested in fixing the mojibakes?--Tokek 11:50, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

WWW::Mediawiki::Client
Thanks for the feedback on my client lib and mvs. I'm writing here as a test to see if I can update your page using mvs. I'm not sure why it would work for me and not for you though. -- UchuHu 15:31, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Testing mvs
Failed from the school machine. This is from the home machine. Seems it works. Oleg Alexandrov 05:33, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

\phi vs. \varphi
Hey. Wow that was a quick response. I think that the norm in mathematics is to use the $$\varphi$$ symbol instead of $$\phi$$. I think this looks better. Maybe we should change this across multiple articles?

--Jacobolus 05:45, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, I'm adding a talk item to the mathematics project. I'll see if I get any response about it before I change any other pages.  I wonder if there's been previous discussion about this, because the \varphi symbol really is the norm in mathematics that I've seen so far, with \phi reserved for other purposes. --Jacobolus 06:02, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have a problem with all special characters (and greek symbols) in my browser (Mozilla), of course not latex "images", but HTML entities (problem probably discussed elsewhere, but didn't find it), but: If I put it in italics, they come out nicely! This is especially true for \phi, which becomes a very nice \varphi (while in roman, it's a nasty huge boldface "F"!)...

Statistical Software - removal of SigmaXL link
You seem to have a problem with links to commercial sites, but in a inconsistent manner. Why then don't you remove STATA's link? The rules of Wikipedia do not forbid links to commercial sites.

 * See Talk:Statistics. Oleg Alexandrov 16:38, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hi
Thanks for welcoming me and thanks for the (deserved) re-directing, shall we say (no pun intended). I guess I'm still a novice WP-ian, so I often forget to add the edit descriptor. As for the modern Latin, I guess some day I'll start the article and when that day comes we can change the link back to "modern latin" instead of just "Latin." So you work with mostly mathematics articles? Pretty cool. Good luck in the future. What are you doing in the real world now?

 * Replied on User talk:Dpr. Oleg Alexandrov 20:43, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Once again, I forgot a stupid thing that I already new--the tilde signing trick. I'm new but not THAT new. Anyway, you're patient like a good professor. No doubt you'll be successful in the world of academia. Good luck. So are you from Russia? Dpr 04:05, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cat:Math
Thanks for the work you've done categorizing math articles. However, try to keep articles out of the root category Category:Mathematics, as its best we keep this as a sort of "gateway" category. HTH Dysprosia 05:19, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'll have to go through it all a bit later. Dysprosia 05:25, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your "Welcome"
Thanks for your welcoming message... In fact, it came so quickly after my "post" that I first thought it was done by a robot.

But then I noticed that you changed my ..."sequences" not indexed by... into ...a generalization of sequences... (a bit less rich in information, but well, I accept as it's "your" page, and I understand you don't like the "sequences" in quotation marks... ;-)

Q: Is it the normal way to "send messages" to somebody, by editing his "User talk" page? Should I now leave your message (I mean, the default "Welcome" stuff) on top of my user talk page?

Q2: adding a "post" (sorry for the maybe improper vocabulary) to a "User talk" or "Discussion" page, should it be marked "minor edit" or not ? MFH 16:59, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:How to write a Wikipedia article on Mathematics
Hi Oleg, thanks for you message. I see that you have a lot of edits on this page, so you probably consider it your pet project. I disagree with your opinion about notation, but I'm not interested in an edit fight. I think the upright d is much clearer since sometimes there is a function d or a distance d involved and I also like to think of it as exterior differentiation. So while there may not be a need to use upright d, I think it is cleaner. About the := sign. Do you ever use it? I would personally also like to eliminate the argument of the functions involved, like so: $$f := \sin \cdot \cos$$. I only use simply = when both sides have meaning. In the present case f does not have any meaning, so I consider f = sin, meaningless, but f := sin, makes clear what you want, even if you didn't have the accompanying text. 145.97.223.187 11:52, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I would be very happy to discuss with you these matters. What matters above all is consistency. Could you please make yourself an account, so that we can talk properly. The IP address is a very unreliable thing. Oleg Alexandrov 15:56, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, this is me. MarSch 16:23, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Replied on User talk:MarSch. Oleg Alexandrov 21:18, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hidden line removal
Hi Oleg - you wrote: ''You made me curious. You fulfilled my request for a better stub category within hours, but you don't have that page on your watchlist!''
 * I'm one of the drudges who goes through Category:Stub looking for things to categorise further. Sheer chance I did this one :) Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 05:59, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * You are doing noble work! :) I tried going through stubs several times, but could not resist for too long. Way too much stuff I care little about. Oleg Alexandrov 06:01, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

table for list of participants
Very nice! I had thought the usernames could be in alphabetical order, but maybe that's too compulsive :) They probably wouldn't stay that way anyway. So does this mean you're warming up to the table idea? Or are you just showing off :) I wish I could trade my little knowledge of table syntax for your obvious (Perl is it?) expertise ;-)  By the way, after all of us taking a PlanetMath break, I see progress is once again being made, plus we have a new helper! Regards, Paul August  ☎ 21:43, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)  (P.S. sorry to have disagreed with you on the "Boundedness debate", I was a bit concerned that you misread my feeble attempt at humor there ;-)

Liouville's Theorem (Hamiltonian)
(I've run this issue past Charles a couple of times and I'm sure he's sick of it).

The article is a classic one where Mathematicians and physicists speek the same theorem in very different languages. I've approached it as a physicist (who first learned it in Natural Sciences Part 2 over 30 years ago). Either of the two 'proofs' I give (the convected dp.dq element and the 'fluids flow' proof) have adequate structure for a a physics undergrad to 'accept' I feel. But the maths guys coming from symplectic manifolds should really have a say, and it should be more than, 'for a symplectic manifold this theorem is trivially true!' It would be useful to say why it's so and what the analogous ideas are. Eg I suspect it's because the symplectic group has antisymmtric properties, just like those that Hamilton's equations produce. I found a useful page in Penrose, which I tried to 'convect' across (by 'parallel transport' :-) ??) - but then I noticed a danger - expressed too simply, this idea seems NOT to give _total_ d by dt (phase space volume) =0 . (At least one earlier maths-based contributor has fallen into this trap). The fact that it's the convective derivative two is of the essence to a physicist or chemist, trying to use it to support his stat mechanics.

Can you see how to write a symplectic space (sub) section which is comprehensible to a physics-major (with say 2 or 3 years of maths methods behind her, but no deep understanding of differential geometry). Linuxlad 12:12, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything at all about this stuff unfortunately. So I can't help. Good luck with that. Oleg Alexandrov 19:11, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Pity! you sounded just the chap :-)80.177.213.144 20:50, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks again
Thanks again for following my traces and deleting spaces I leave on beginning of lines and so. (How do you to to track my "contributions" (I put quotes because mayb its not always an enrichment...))

 * To track somebody's contributions: go to page history, take a diff involving the desired person, then you will see a link to contributions of that person. But in this situation it was easier, I think I either had that page on my watchlist, or I followed it from another page on the watchlist. So relax, I am not spying on you :)

PS: is it easier for you to find my messages if I add it in the end, or do you prefer if I put all my blabla into the same section ("Thanks")? MFH 20:59, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Just add them at the end. I find this to be the simplest thing to do, and also more practical. Oleg Alexandrov 21:02, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Spectral density and other things
Thank you for your contributions to Spectral density and Periodogram. I just wonder, why do you move the physics-stub from the bottom of the article? I thought it was more approproate at the bottom.

 * Hmm? I thought it was standard to put them right under the article content, which is the part that needs expanding.

 * Ah. I see it has been removed from the Find or fix a stub page.  With discussion here: Wikipedia talk:Find or fix a stub.  *Sigh*  More nitpicking policy discussion.  :-) - Omegatron

And a small request. Would you mind providing an edit summary? I find it very helpful for articles on my watchlist. Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov 21:33, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry. I'm just really lazy about that. - Omegatron 22:27, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Removal of Christopher Wren from List of mathematical topics (V-Z)
According to St Andrews, Wren has done some maths. I'm not sure it's enough to warrant his inclusion in the list of maths topics though. There is also a short discussion at Talk:List of mathematicians. Just for your information ... Jitse Niesen 12:51, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Put the guy back. One day some kind soul might write about his math contributions in his bio article. Oleg Alexandrov 17:01, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Email
Hi Oleg - do you have an email set in preferences? I sent an email, but got no reply PAR 13:14, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I just replied. Sorry for the delay. Oleg Alexandrov 16:55, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Math project participants list
Hi Oleg, I've taken your participants table and updated it like so:

User:Paul August/Subpage 13

What do you think? Besides the two users, stochata and Tomo who have replied in favor of the table on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics, another user MarSch, on my talk page has said he likes the tabular form as well. I would have preferred to have heard from some of the more senior participants, but I'm inclined to go ahead with this anyway, unless you are still opposed. I have to say your script generated table has made it too hard for me to resist, so you are hoist on your own Perl petard, so to speak ;-)

Paul August ☎ 21:10, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * You made a good case for the table. And it is not hard to fill in, one just needs to copy a row from above, and rewrite some of that info.

 * Most people did not reply because I think nobody cares :) So the best thing to do is, as you plan, to just go ahead with it. Oleg Alexandrov 21:22, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * PS The table looks good. Oleg Alexandrov 21:24, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad you like it. Yes I'm assuming that most people are indifferent. I will go ahead then. Your script made it much easier. Paul August ☎ 21:29, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

periods at the end of formulas
is there a consensus that this is needed? looks bad to me. - Omegatron 00:19, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Period at the end of formula is the universal style in math. I am aware that in engineering for example, people do not do that. Did it happen that I modified something outside math (I try to stick to math, but sometimes the links from the list of mathematics topics lead into related subjects). If you would like, we can have a wider discussion about this. Oleg Alexandrov 00:24, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah it was an electronics article common drain, and they weren't sentences, either. I think even in mathematics articles it doesn't look good.  I don't remember seeing it in my math books.  It looks like a symbol, which could certainly confuse me; I don't know about other people.  $$Q \cdot Q .$$ $$\dot Q .$$ $$..., 1, 2, 3, ... .$$ Perhaps it's something from typesetting that doesn't carry over perfectly to the web? - Omegatron 00:30, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * I just pulled two math books off my shelf (math math, not engineering math) :-) and they are different. One has no punctuation next to formulas unless they are inline with the sentence.  The other has periods the way you are using. - Omegatron 00:35, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * I would not like to start this on the wrong foot. Can we talk first before you get on to reverting things? Oleg Alexandrov 00:29, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I just reverted that one; don't worry. - Omegatron 00:35, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for stopping reversions. There is nothing more pissing me off than people doing things without consultation.

 * I just pulled 5 applied math and probabily books off my shelf. They all use period at the end. Would you like us to discuss this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. Or would you take my promise that I will not mess up with any articles which are not either linked from list of mathematics topics, or in some math category, or listed as a math stub? Either way is very fine with me. Oleg Alexandrov 00:41, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * The encyclopedia of physics uses periods, too. :-)  You are winning my bookshelf 2 to 1 so far.  The engineering books don't, as you said. - Omegatron 00:42, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * If it's standard mathematics practice I guess go for it, and leave the engineering articles without. Of course, there are some articles that exist on the intersection between these two worlds.  Has there been any discussion about it before you started adding them? - Omegatron 00:44, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * No, I did not consult anybody. But, I am already at letter "C", and at at least 5 Wikipedians I know had one or more of those on their watchlist. I can certainly stop until we talk this over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. All up to you. Oleg Alexandrov 00:47, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Let's just move this conversation there and see what other people have to add, and you can keep going with the math articles. - Omegatron 00:49, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

To do?
You wrote:

 * "Waiting til an automated tool is made?"

There are automated and programmable tools for uploading stuff. I can help with that if necessary. Oleg Alexandrov 04:32, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah? I want to move all my images over: User:Omegatron/Gallery  I didn't see any clear consensus on Moving images to the Commons, so I figured that stuff was still up in the air... - Omegatron 04:36, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, now I see. You want more than just uploading stuff, you would like to move the images together with their history. That probably can't be easily done, and if yes, only by the admins. So, can't help you with that. :) Oleg Alexandrov 05:12, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I want to keep any information and previous images. I'm an admin, but not on the commons (yet).  Does that help at all? - Omegatron 05:49, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * I guess not. One would need to know the fine details of how Wikipedia software is implemented. I don't know how to do that. I thought you needed a lousy script to upload stuff from your hard drive. So, I got the wrong impression from seeing:

on your page. Oleg Alexandrov 06:18, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Upload my electrical images to the commons
 * Waiting til an automated tool is made?

 * It's alright. Thanks, anyway. - Omegatron 06:28, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Oleg Alexandrov/Archive1


text:
Xezbeth

In demonology, Xezbeth (alternately Shezbeth) is a demon of lies and legends, who invents untrue tales. Its name in Arabic is "The Liar" (الكذّاب al-Kadhāb).

According to French occultist Collin de Plancy's Dictionnaire Infernal (1853 or 1863), it is impossible to count the number of its disciples.

title: Xezbeth


text: User talk:67.167.246.34

title: User talk:67.167.246.34


text:
The Drive (American football)

The Drive was an offensive series in the fourth quarter of the 1986 AFC Championship Game played on January 11, 1987, at Cleveland Municipal Stadium between the Denver Broncos and Cleveland Browns. Broncos quarterback John Elway, in a span of 5 minutes and 2 seconds, led his team 98 yards in 15 plays to tie the game with 37 seconds left in regulation. Denver won the game in overtime by making a 33-yard field goal, pulling off a 23–20 comeback win over the Cleveland Browns.

The 98-yard drive ranks as pro football's prototypical clutch performance. Elway and his team spanned almost all of the 100-yard football field. According to an article by Sports Illustrated columnist and Colorado resident Rick Reilly, when Elway started the drive, Broncos offensive guard Keith Bishop said of the Browns, "We got 'em right where we want 'em!" Cleveland could not force a fourth down against Denver.

The Drive is commonly seen as emblematic of the Cleveland Sports Curse, and of the Browns' inability to reach the Super Bowl since its inauguration in the 1966 season (as of 2023, the Browns' last NFL Championship came in the 1964 season, prior to the Super Bowl Era.) It is often mentioned in tandem with The Fumble, which occurred in the following year's AFC Championship Game, also against the Denver Broncos, and again featured the Browns falling just short of appearing in their first Super Bowl.

Play-by-play
The Browns had jumped to a 20–13 lead and Denver had muffed the ensuing kickoff when Elway took over, first-and-10 on their own 2-yard line, with 5:32 to play in regulation.

Two-minute warning First down and 10, Cleveland 40-yard line (1:59 left). Incomplete pass by Elway, intended for Vance Johnson.
 * 1) First down and 10, Denver 2-yard line. Sammy Winder 5-yard pass from Elway.
 * 2) Second down and 5, Denver 7-yard line. Winder 3-yard run.
 * 3) Third down and 2, Denver 10-yard line. Winder 2-yard run.
 * 4) First down and 10, Denver 12-yard line. Winder 3-yard run.
 * 5) Second down and 7, Denver 15-yard line. Elway 11-yard run.
 * 6) First down and 10, Denver 26-yard line. Steve Sewell 22-yard pass from Elway.
 * 7) First down and 10, Denver 48-yard line. Steve Watson 12-yard pass from Elway.
 * 1) Second down and 10, Cleveland 40-yard line (1:52 left). Dave Puzzuoli sack of Elway, 8-yard loss.
 * 2) Third down and 18, Cleveland 48-yard line (1:47 left). Mark Jackson 20-yard pass from Elway.
 * 3) First down and 10, Cleveland 28-yard line (1:19 left). Incomplete pass by Elway, intended for Watson.
 * 4) Second down and 10, Cleveland 28-yard line (1:10 left). Steve Sewell 14-yard pass from Elway.
 * 5) First down and 10, Cleveland 14-yard line (:57 left). Incomplete pass by Elway, intended for Watson.
 * 6) Second down and 10, Cleveland 14-yard line (:42 left). John Elway 9-yard run (scramble).
 * 7) Third down and 1, Cleveland 5-yard line (:39 left). Mark Jackson 5-yard pass from Elway for the touchdown. Rich Karlis then adds the extra point to tie the game.

Officials

 * Referee: Chuck Heberling (46)
 * Umpire: Gordon Wells (89)
 * Head Linesman: Ed Marion (26)
 * Line Judge: Bill Reynolds (53)
 * Side Judge: Gary Lane (120)
 * Back Judge: Ben Tompkins (52)
 * Field Judge: Johnny Grier (23)

In popular culture
The Drive was featured in the movie Hot Tub Time Machine, but due to the butterfly effect, Jackson was distracted by a squirrel and failed to catch a pass and Cleveland went on to win. It was inaccurately portrayed as being in 1986 (the game was played on January 11, 1987, though it was at the end of the 1986 NFL season). The movie implied that it was played at night; however, when Karlis kicked the winning field goal in overtime, it was still daytime in Cleveland (the AFC title game was the early conference championship game that year, as the NFC title game between the New York Giants and Washington Redskins took place later and saw nearly the entire game played after the sun had set).

title: The Drive (American football)


text:
1590 in music

Events

 * October 16 – Carlo Gesualdo, Italian composer of madrigals, murders his wife and her lover in flagrante delicto.
 * Approximate peak year of the late Italian madrigal style, as represented by Gesualdo, Luzzaschi, Monteverdi, Marenzio, Monte and others.
 * The serpent is invented by Canon Edmé Guillaume in Auxerre, France – it was a common instrument in Western European churches for the next several hundred years.
 * Baldassare Donato becomes maestro di cappella at St. Mark's in Venice, taking over on the death of Gioseffo Zarlino.
 * Claudio Monteverdi, Italian composer, is engaged as string player at court of Duke Vincenzo Gonzaga at Mantua.
 * Emilio de' Cavalieri, Italian composer, produces Tasso's Aminto, likely with his own music, for the Medici, at Carnival in Florence.
 * Giovanni Gabrieli arranges the posthumous publication of works by his uncle Andrea Gabrieli, in Venice.

Publications

 * Gregor Aichinger – Sacrae cantiones... (Venice: Angelo Gardano), also includes some madrigals
 * Blasius Amon – Sacrae cantiones... (Munich: Adam Berg)
 * Felice Anerio – First book of madrigals for six voices (Venice: Ricciardo Amadino)
 * Giammateo Asola – Vespertina omnium solemnitatum psalmodia for twelve voices (Venice: Ricciardo Amadino), also includes two Magnificats, a Salve Regina, a mass, and five laudi
 * Paolo Bellasio – First book of madrigals for six voices (Venice: Angelo Gardano)
 * Valerio Bona – Litaniae et aliae laudes B. Mariae Virginis (Litanies and other laudas of the Blessed Virgin Mary) for four voices, Simon Tini ed. (Milan: Francesco Tini)
 * Giovanni Croce
 * First book of madrigals for six voices (Venice: Giacomo Vincenti)
 * First book of Mascarate piacevole et ridicolose per il carnevale for four, five, six, seven, and eight voices (Venice: Giacomo Vincenti)
 * Girolamo Dalla Casa – The second book of madrigals for five voices (Venice: Ricciardo Amadino)
 * Giovanni Gabrieli publishes works in the cori spezzati style, in Venice.
 * Jacobus Gallus
 * Opus musicum, volume 4 (Prague: Georg Nigrinus)
 * Harmoniarum moralium for four voices, book 2 & 3 (Prague: Georg Nigrinus)
 * Hans Leo Hassler – Canzonette for four voices (Nuremberg: Katharina Gerlach)
 * Paolo Isnardi – First book of masses for six voices (Venice: heirs of Girolamo Scotto)
 * Orlande de Lassus, Franco-Flemish composer – Neue teutsche, unnd etliche frantzösische Gesäng for six voices (Munich: Adam Berg)
 * Cristofano Malvezzi – Second book of madrigals for five voices (Venice: Giacomo Vincenti)
 * Tiburtio Massaino – Third book of motets for five voices (Venice: Angelo Gardano)
 * Philippe de Monte
 * Third book of madrigali spirituali for six voices (Venice: Angelo Gardano)
 * Fourteenth book of madrigals for five voices (Venice: Angelo Gardano)
 * Claudio Monteverdi – Il secondo libro de madrigali a cinque voci di Claudio Monteverde Cremonese discepolo del Sig.r Ingegneri (Second book of madrigals for five voices) (Venice: Angelo Gardano)
 * Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina – Fifth book of masses for four, five, and six voices (Rome: Giacomo Bericchia for Francesco Coattino)
 * David Palladius
 * Nuptiales cantiones, a book of wedding music, published in Wittenberg by Johann Franck, printed by Matthäus Welack
 * Ein neue Lied dem Hochwirden in Gott..., published in Magdeburg by Johann Franck
 * Andreas Pevernage
 * Second book of chansons for five voices (Antwerp: Christophe Plantin)
 * Third book of chansons for five voices (Antwerp: Christophe Plantin)
 * Orfeo Vecchi – Masses, Sunday Vespers psalms, Magnificat, motets, and polyphonic psalms for eight voices (Milan: Francesco & the heirs of Simon Tini)
 * Orazio Vecchi publishes a book of motets for 10 voices, in Venice.
 * Thomas Watson – The first sett, Of Italian Madrigalls Englished, published in London.

Births

 * July 3 – Lucrezia Orsina Vizzana, singer, organist and composer (d. 1662)
 * probable
 * Manuel Machado, composer (d. 1646)
 * Johann Schop, violinist and composer (d. 1667)
 * Loreto Vittori, Italian composer (d. 1670)
 * Caterina Assandra, Italian composer (died c. 1618)

Deaths

 * January 20 – Giambattista Benedetti, Italian scientist and music theorist (born 1530)
 * February 4 – Gioseffo Zarlino, Italian music theorist and composer, maestro di cappella at St. Mark's in Venice (born 1517)
 * September 20
 * Lodovico Agostini, Italian composer (born 1534)
 * Ascanio Trombetti, Italian composer (born 1544)
 * probable – Maddalena Casulana, Italian lutenist, singer and composer (born c 1544)

title: 1590 in music


text: User talk:63.105.65.9

title: User talk:63.105.65.9


text:
Mike Andrews

Michael Jay Andrews (born July 9, 1943) is an American former professional baseball player. He played in Major League Baseball as an infielder for the Boston Red Sox, Chicago White Sox and Oakland Athletics. After his playing career, he served for more than 25 years as chairman of The Jimmy Fund, an event fundraising organization affiliated with the Dana–Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts. He is the older brother of Rob Andrews, who played five seasons in MLB from 1975 through 1979.

Early life
Andrews grew up in Torrance, California, attending the city's South High School, starring in baseball, football and basketball. After he accepted a full football scholarship to the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) that required a one-year enrollment at a junior college to complete foreign language courses, he matriculated at El Camino College, earning Junior College All-American honors as a wide receiver.

Baseball career
His baseball skills drew the attention of the Red Sox, who signed him as an amateur free agent with a $12,000 signing bonus on December 1, 1961. He spent the next five years working his way through the Red Sox farm system, the first four as a shortstop. He excelled at the plate in his first three seasons, batting .299 with the Class D Olean (NY) Red Sox of the New York–Penn League in 1962, .298 combined between the Waterloo Hawks and Winston-Salem Red Sox in 1963 and .295 with the Reading Red Sox in 1964. However, he struggled with his defense, committing 74, 36 and 42 errors in those respective campaigns. He spent his last two years in the minors with the Toronto Maple Leafs, back-to-back Governors' Cup Champions managed by Dick Williams. After his batting average fell to .246 in 1965, Andrews was shifted to second base and responded by hitting .267, with 14 homers and an International League-leading 97 runs scored in 1966.

He was promoted in September 1966 to a Boston team that avoided the American League cellar by only $1/2$ game. Playing in five contests, all as a starter. He made his major league debut on September 18 against the California Angels at Fenway Park, going hitless in four at bats with a run scored. He got his first hit in the majors six days later at Yankee Stadium, a single off New York's Fritz Peterson. Andrews picked up two more hits in the season finale versus the Chicago White Sox at Comiskey Park.

Even though he was reunited with the newly promoted Williams in 1967, Andrews started his rookie season on the bench in favor of Reggie Smith, who had been shifted from center field. By late April, Andrews became the regular second baseman for the majority of the campaign, with Smith, struggling defensively, returning to his original position.

Andrews was traded along with Luis Alvarado to the White Sox for Luis Aparicio on December 1, 1970. Andrews hit just .237 for the White Sox, and was released on July 16, 1973, with a batting average that season of just .201.

1973 World Series
In a transaction requested by his old manager Dick Williams despite the objections of team owner Charlie Finley, Andrews signed with the Oakland Athletics on July 31, 1973. A part of the ballclub's postseason roster, he appeared in two games of the American League Championship Series, entering both as a pinch hitter.

In Game 2 of the 1973 World Series between the Oakland A's and the New York Mets, Andrews committed two errors in a four-run twelfth inning, leading to a Mets' 10–7 victory. With two outs and the Mets leading 7–6, John Milner's ground ball went through Andrews' legs for the first error, allowing Tug McGraw and Willie Mays to score. One batter later, Jerry Grote hit a ground ball to Andrews, whose throw to first pulled Gene Tenace off the bag for the second error, which allowed Cleon Jones to score. Oakland owner Charlie Finley forced him to sign a false affidavit saying he was injured, thus making him ineligible to play for the rest of the series. Andrews' teammates and manager Dick Williams rallied to Andrews's defense, including placing his number "17" onto their uniforms with athletic tape as a display of solidarity. Finally, commissioner Bowie Kuhn forced Finley to reinstate Andrews. He entered Game 4 in the eighth inning as a pinch-hitter to a standing ovation from sympathetic Mets fans. Andrews promptly grounded out, and Finley ordered him benched for the remainder of the Series. He was given his unconditional release on November 1, eleven days after the A's won its second straight World Series title. Andrews never played another major league game, playing baseball in Japan in 1975 before retiring.

The Jimmy Fund
Andrews's first contact with The Jimmy Fund was in his rookie season with the Red Sox in 1967 when Bill Koster, then the charity's chairman, asked him if he could meet with a twelve-year-old cancer patient. Andrews agreed and spent half an hour with the youth. After the meeting, he talked about the boy's optimism with Koster, who then informed him that the youngster was being released because his condition was terminal and the doctors had no cure for the disease.

In 1979, Andrews received an offer from Ken Coleman, The Jimmy Fund's executive director at the time, to become its assistant director. He accepted under the condition that the job be part-time because he was still working for the Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company, which he had joined after his professional baseball career ended. He eventually left the insurance business and served full-time with the fund, becoming its chairman in 1984. He retired from the position at the end of 2009.

title: Mike Andrews


text:
User talk:Roguecomgeek

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Flockmeal 19:16, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Roguecomgeek