text:
Talk:Earth, Wind & Fire

Cleanup
This article needs cleanup. Almost all the links that lead to album names go to the meaning of the actual word, not disc information. The author of this article did a poor job of this. --WindWaker68 00:13, 28 February, 2005 (UTC)

Love Songs album
I believe the entry for a 2004 album entitled Love Songs actually refers to a 2005 Chicago album of the same name; that album includes two tracks recorded on their joint 2004 tour. Before I make that correction, can anyone else confirm? Engineer Bob 09:17, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Earth, Wind and Fire also has a CD called "Love Songs". The Love Songs tag appears to be a line of Greatest Hits packages release by Sony/Columbia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.237.179 (talk) 03:15, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info; I did some further checking and found the EW&F album. (BTW, the Chicago Love Songs album is on Rhino Records, not Sony/Columbia.)  Engineer Bob 00:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Discography format
Excellent work by Xinger on the singles list. Would be nice to see the albums converted to a similar format for consistency. Engineer Bob 16:36, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Should this page have a link to long song titles like this?
==See also== -- Gbeeker 21:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * List of songs with particularly long titles

Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song OST
Composed by Melvin Van Peebles, performed by EW&F; some assert that this was their recording debut. In any case, the film is an historic landmark in indie black cinema and merits a mention here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.53.163.211 (talk) 22:36, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Dance Dance Dance
How come I can't find seem to this track on any of their albums? From what I've heard, it seems like a breath of fresh air from hearing all their other tracks for the 15 millionth time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.76.32.52 (talk) 23:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Unprofessional
This article is written in a decidedly nonacademic style. Certain sections need to be rewritten. Bro2baseball (talk) 02:37, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Maintenance tags
Okay, who keeps removing the maintenance tags? Two sentences is way too short of an intro, and almost everything on the page is red linked. It clearly needs a major overhaul. Removing the tags doesn't fix the problem. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 14:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

seventh?
in the intro paragraph it says something along the lines of "they're seventh best selling american group" but if you go to the list they're not on there anywhere. the sources listed didn't seem to help much either. DPM 04:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Unless I'm mis-counting, The Four Seasons are the seventh best-selling American band of all time, based on the link. And the two references, the two biography pages, make zero reference to EWF being on the list either.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.66.233.184 (talk) 04:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

African American R&B Band
In the first sentence, is it relevant to say they are an African American R&B Band? It doesn't seem to me to have any relevance to their music. I'm guessing the author intended to say they are an American R&B band, and got slightly confused with this (the country of origin) and the race of the members. If they were, say, based in China, I think you would say they were a Chinese R&B band, based on their location. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slogan621 (talk • contribs) 04:58, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band
Earth, Wind & Fire made an appearance in the movie, but I can't find a reference to it anywhere. Is it in the article yet? 68.204.47.18 (talk) 23:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Shane Saxton?
He was listed in the current members section until I updated the section to match the current lineup. I also sorted out the former members section (based on Wiki's guidelines for infoboxes), but haven't found any information on Shane Saxton. I can't find any sources. Was he actually a member of the band at any point? Burbridge92 (talk) 22:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

What?
Why is some random band the main search result for "Earth, wind, and fire" instead of the elements? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.56.32 (talk) 19:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

The Elements are a group of pure substances with a periodic table to group them by. They start with Hydrogen. The CLASSICAL Elements to which I believe you are referring to usually include Earth, Fire, Air and Water. "Wind" is referred to in some cultures but most of them refer to AIR as one of FOUR elements. I have not been able to find any ancient culture who used a system of classical elements that did not use WATER. Therefore I suggest that the use of the worlds "Earth Wind And Fire" are ideally appropriated on a Band who, far from being random, have made their musical presence felt by millions of people for nearly half a century, being genre definers, still influential and active now. I feel your question was pretty high on the snottiness scale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.156.146 (talk) 18:35, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Needs a more objective tone
This entry has loads of detailed information, but it needs to be referenced more thoroughly. Also, it reads too much like it was written by EWF fans. 193.38.100.250 (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2013 (UTC)DP

Awards and Recognitions
While awards and recognitions of this band's achievements are encyclopedic and verifiable, this article is awash with references to these awards. This makes the article wearisome to read and grossly over emphasises the actual importance of such awards. Chart positions are good to include for, say, a "first top ten" or a "first number one" - maybe a First ever "grammy" - these will certainly help the article. However I feel that a complete list of the bands awards should be a separate paragraph under the main body of the text - not constantly referred to in the way this article goes on about the third track of some album winning third best performance by a triangle player.....

YOU DON'T MAKE A BORING ARTICLE OUT OF ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING BANDS IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!. And sorry, that IS Neutral POV — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.156.146 (talk) 18:20, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

EWF's religious point of view
The header mentions that the Kalimba is played (by Maurice White) in every album of the band. That's good and accurate, because they were trying to mantain an 'african element' in their music for most of it. But there's more. From, i'm not sure, 1974's Open Our Eyes or 1975's That's The Way Of The World, they added something more: best described in the AllMusic review for the album Spirit, written by Alex Henderson, "an interesting blend of Afro-American Christianity and Eastern philosophy"; some egyptian symbols in the cover, an overall philosophy in the lyrics and themes, love, all is one, etc. This article needs to point that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.220.233.212 (talk) 01:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

And Rain
A source mentions the name as having been Earth, Wind, Fire, and Rain for about a year or so. 04:12, 13 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.5.157.39 (talk)

Merger proposal
I propose that Earth, Wind & Fire Horns be merged into Earth, Wind & Fire. Unlike the much more notable Phenix Horns, there seems to be little evidence that this more recent horn section has achieved notability outside of the main band. Their membership is obviously relevant to the Earth, Wind & Fire article, and their appearances on other people's albums can be briefly mentioned there. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk|Contribs) 18:32, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with the merge proposal. The "solo works" section can simply been adapted to be a "list of album appearances" section. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 16:56, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Well the article Earth, Wind & Fire Horns meets several notability guidelines within Notability (music) under the heading "Criteria for musicians and ensembles". At first under point 1 of the criterion as the horn section "has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself". Additionally under point 6 which states that it "is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles." This article also meets point 6 of the criterion being "has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc." With this being so the article Earth, Wind & Fire Horns is thus notable in accordance to these stipulated guidelines and shouldn't be merged into the article Earth, Wind & Fire whatsoever. Woojy88 (Talk) 14:41, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not necessarily about notability, it's about the information in this article being better suited within another article. This isn't a deletion debate. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 21:02, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

After perusing the article Earth, Wind & Fire Horns I will have to say I disagree with this merge proposal by User:doomsdayer520. As User:Woojy88 stated the Earth, Wind & Fire Horns have gone on to achieve notability outside of the main band. This is assured given their work with several prominent artistes as is displayed within the article. Therefore despite what both User:doomsdayer520 and User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars have proposed there's no need to merge and simultaneously delete the article Earth, Wind & Fire Horns. Alkhi04 (Talk) 20:41, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:SOCK, WP:DUCK. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 03:17, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Woojy88 (Talk) 14:45, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
 * At first you should always Assume good faith when editing User:Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars. Can't you also acknowledge that the article Earth, Wind & Fire Horns is noteworthy especially due to their solo catalogue and should be kept as such?
 * I want to disagree with the merge but if "Earth, Wind & Fire Horns" is their group name, then I would say keep. However they don't actually have a solo catalogue such as albums or singles registered to that their group name. As far as them playing behind other singers (Whitney, Queen Latifah, etc.), it more so seems like a coincidence that all of the 'band members' of EWFH are playing behind other singers. And if that's the case, I also would say merge. I would only say keep if they are an actual established group aside from EWF. Horizonlove (talk) 05:32, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Well the Earth, Wind & Fire Horns' solo work isn't at all coincidental. As in the case of them playing as a unit with Kelly Clarkson, Puff Daddy and several other famous artistes. So one can be fully assured as an article of their overall notability altogether. Woojy88 (Talk) 9:55, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm only skeptical because of the group name. If you take away EWF, then your left with Horns. I'm just concerned about that. Of course they would nothing wrong with separating them from EWF if they are indeed a spinoff groups like "Bell Biv Devoe" is to "New Edition". But again, the main concern in my opinion is their solo catalogue. No albums or singles registered to them, so I don't know if they would be notable enough even though technically they qualify for a separate article under Wikipedia:Notability. If this is as far as the article can go, I will vote that we merge. However if more information can be added to it and because this page was just made in September 2018, I think it would only fair to see where this article goes in another three months. In that case, I will vote to oppose the merge. Horizonlove (talk) 17:08, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Well the Earth, Wind & Fire Horns are a musical ensemble of the band Earth, Wind & Fire that also performs solitarily as is displayed within their article. The EWF Horns also meets the respective criteria for such a group that comes under Notability (music). With this being so they mirror the Memphis Horns and Phenix Horns as horn sections whose solo work comes only via collaborations with other artistes. As that's the case the validity and notability of the article Earth, Wind & Fire Horns is well assured altogether. Woojy88 (Talk) 12:55, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

The tone is obviously biased
When the second line says they're one of the best acts of all time, you know an article is slanted. Plus this whole article basically just lists their awards and gushes about how good they are. This reads like pro-EWF propaganda, not a studious encyclopedia article. I added a POV tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.225.65.9 (talk) 00:05, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Reeling that back in a bit, the second line does not say they are "one of the best", it says they have been described as one of the most innovative and commercially successful acts of all time. IMO, that's likely true and -- depending on who said it in what context -- is likely to be relevant in the article.
 * That said, the introductory paragraph is rather heavy on accolades and light on relevant facts. I'd suggest bumping most of those quotes to relevant sections further down and adding dates, most successful era (70's-ish) and perhaps a small handful of best known songs.
 * In a more general sense, the lede section wanders around a bit, covering too much territory. It should be summarizing the subject. List of members, awards and such are relevant to the article, but too detailed for the lede. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 03:31, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Well this article merely details the career and history of the band Earth, Wind & Fire as any other article based on a musical artiste would. In so doing albums and singles of the band are mentioned together with referenced charts, certifications and critical reactions to such. Additionally milestones, accolades and noteworthy achievements of EWF are acknowledged throughout in an impartial manner. These details are all referenced via citations which are deemed appropriate and suitable for Wikipedia. With regard to the introductory section this is a cited summary of the band's career which lists Grammy and American Music Awards wins and nominations, other noteworthy honours and hall of fame inductions. As that's the case one can comprehend the article's tone being neutral and objective altogether. Woojy88 (Talk) 12:55, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree with Woojy88. This hugely successful band can hardly be written about without seeming slanted to someone. I find the tone to be neutral and devoid of obvious fancruft. In short, the tag should be pulled ASAP. If absolutely necessary with others, the lede can be trimmed a bit. Jusdafax (talk) 00:25, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Excessive Edits
I have noticed an excessive amount of edits on the Earth, Wind& Fire page as well as external links since May 2018 by Woojy88. I am concerned that there is a conflict of interest WP:COI regarding this subject which is against Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. WP:NPOV — Preceding unsigned comment added by Auntielandra (talk • contribs) 13:05, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

 * With regard to this matter I can assure you that no WP COI exists whatsoever. As always User:Auntielandra you should seek to WP:Assume good faith when editing.Woojy88 (talk • contribs) 13:26, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Like I said, User:Woojy88 that is an great deal of edits from one person in short a short period of time regarding one subject. (Over 30 edits since Feb 2019 is a lot) My conversation has nothing to do with a lack of WP:GF, however, the number of edits it raises an eyebrow. Glad to hear from you that WP:COI and WP:NPOV do not exist. As long as the history of EWF is not altered or revised so that history is changed, then all is well. 70's Music is an interesting subject, adding this subject to my watchlist, its good reading. Have a great day. Auntielandra (talk • contribs) — Preceding undated comment added 16:04, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

 * 30 edits in over a month and a half is neither particularly unusual nor evidence of a conflict of interest. POV or COI problems would be indicated by the content of edits, selection of sourced, etc. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 18:30, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Suggestion
In an attempt to shorten the length of the infobox "past members" section, can we just erase each of the members' names and replace it with a "see Members" link? And we note who the original members are as well as the current members. Horizonlove (talk) 03:32, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

 * With regard to this issue one should be fully assured that the particular section of this article's infobox is alike those articles of musical artistes that are deemed good by Wikipedia. Woojy88 (talk) 22:00, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * But should an infobox be so lengthy? This is a group that has been around for half of a century. There are many members and I think it would be appropriate to consider my idea. Replace the names in the 'past members' area with "see (Members)". Then in the Members area, we create a double column that notes 'Original members' and 'Current members'. And of course we keep the link List of Earth, Wind & Fire band members in that section. Horizonlove (talk) 07:50, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Well many of those articles of musical artistes deemed good by Wikipedia also have infoboxes of a similar or identical span. As is the case the infoboxes of those good articles are thus aligned in full accordance with the editing policy stipulated by Wikipedia. So to strive towards being as those good articles are it'll be wise to sustain with such. Woojy88 (talk) 22:00, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Legacy Section: Should there be a Comment about EWF Influence on Cuban Timba (Funk) Music?
I would argue for its inclusion, since EWF was one of the major influences on early groups like Charanga Habanera. Not only do many timba songs incorporate samples from EWF songs, the orchestration / instrumentation is clearly modelled on EWF, even so far as to name the horn sections the way White named the EWF Phenix horns. Finally, although other funk groups of the 70s and 80s have been referenced in timba, EWF is by far the most reference.

199.38.199.198 (talk) 20:27, 9 June 2020 (UTC) +kaysee66+

"During their hiatus, Maurice went on to produce..."
The paragraph starting "During their hiatus, Maurice went on to produce..." has 268 words and whopping 6300 bytes of information (probably caused by too many references), almost all of it wandering off topic. It's a problem with WP:COATRACK. It goes far beyond talking about EWF and gets into what Maurice White was doing alone.

I can imagine having a much smaller paragraph listing Maurice's own solo album and a few artists he produced, but not albums and awards and certifications from those other artists. It's bad for the reading flow: see WP:TOPIC which encourages the editors to stay focused, to stay on topic.

The article is a patchwork of short paragraphs that don't flow as a story. Far too many quotes are introduced. Nothing bad is ever said about the band, not even about their worst albums that performed poorly in the charts.

This is a general problem with the whole article, which has been expanded quite a bit by, and also by IPs. The result is hard to read, and a poor representation of the band. Binksternet (talk) 04:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Your last edit on the page Earth, Wind & Fire was truly ridiculous. Maurice White was the founder and leader of EWF. As such his accomplishments during the band's hiatus is truly noteworthy just as the accomplishments of those band members who rejoined when the band reconvened. Why would his accomplishments during such be termed off-topic by you? Can you please clarify and explain. An utterly nonsencial edit and also an example of Vandalism by Binksternet.Wioaw (talk) 15:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Obviously I disagree. My removal was for the purpose of making the article more focused on EWF, to stop the off-topic WP:COATRACK stuff about Maurice. It's off-topic because it can be (and is) described in another article. That's the definition of off-topic. Binksternet (talk) 15:36, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Fred White
The section following the sub-title "Formation and Early Years" does not mention drummer Fred White, but the article Fred White says that he was one of the original members of Earth, Wind and Fire YTKJ (talk) 08:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

vitality rating
as one of the best selling bands of all time, it seems like a nobrainer that EWF deserves a vitality rating of 4 216.164.249.213 (talk) 11:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Earth, Wind & Fire


text: Template:History of art sidebar

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template:History of art sidebar


text:
Kingdom of Calontir

The Kingdom of Calontir is one of twenty "kingdoms", or regions, of the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), an international organization dedicated to researching and recreating aspects of the Middle Ages.

Calontir is located in the Midwestern United States and includes about 40 local SCA groups in Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, and (the Fayetteville area of) Arkansas. Calontir is bordered on the east by the Middle Kingdom, on the south by the kingdoms of Gleann Abhann and Ansteorra, on the west by the Kingdom of the Outlands, and on the north by the Kingdom of Northshield.

History
The name Calontir is believed by many to be Welsh for "Heartland";  however, that is incorrect. "Heartland" as a single word in Welsh would be "perfeddwlad." "Heart land" as two words more closely resembles "Calontir;" it translated into Welsh as "tir y galon" or "Calondir." Over time the error has become common usage. It began as a principality within the Middle Kingdom in 1981-2 (AS XVI in the SCA's own calendar) and on February 18, 1984 (AS XVIII) became the tenth kingdom of the SCA. The first king and queen of Calontir were known as Chepe l’Orageux and Arwyn Antaradi.

The arms of the kingdom, registered January 1984, are: Purpure, a cross of Calatrava, in chief a crown, within in bordure a laurel wreath Or.

Culture
Calontir has a distinctive cultural flavor, as does each kingdom in the SCA. Calontir is known for its cohesive presence at war, every individual in the Calontir army dressed in the kingdom's livery (purple with a golden falcon) and fighting in a huge shield wall, units marching into battle singing in unison, as if "a kingdom that runs like a household." This cohesiveness may be influenced by traditional attitudes on the Great Plains, where strong communities have evolved out of farmers' cooperatives, formed long ago to ensure mutual survival against the elements of the American frontier.

Drawing on its name and the culture of its founding group, Calontir is often associated with pre-Conquest England, an identity reflected in many of its songs, which convey the perspective of the downtrodden more often than the triumphant. This focus on pre-12th century England may have been a factor in Calontir's distinction as the last kingdom in the SCA to recognize SCA fencing.

Events
Local groups in Calontir, as in other SCA kingdoms, host local and kingdom-level events throughout the year, which include SCA combat tournaments, Arts and Sciences competitions, seasonal feasts, etc. The Kingdom of Calontir annually hosts the War of the Lilies, a nine-day camping event each June, which in recent years has attracted about a thousand SCA members for combat and other activities. The first Lilies War was held in 1987 at Perry Lake in Kansas. Since 1992, the event has been held at Smithville Lake in Missouri. Unlike most SCA wars, which exploit inter-kingdom rivalries, Lilies War is a themed event, the contending groups based upon the theme of the year. According to the Lilies War Committee charter, "the theme may not place the Kingdom of Calontir against another group". Some of the events that take place are armored combat, archery, Arts and Sciences demonstrations and competitions, classes, feasting, games, youth activities, and shopping in the period markets and food court. Kingdom-level events in Calontir include the Kingdom Arts and Sciences Competition, the Queen's Prize Arts and Sciences Tournament, various symposia (Clothier's Seminar, Cooking Symposium, etc.), and combat tournaments such as the semi-annual Crown Tournament (which decide the future heirs to the crown).

Local groups

In the SCA, a barony is the largest type of local group, usually arising in areas of dense population and requiring a core of at least 25 paid, active members (though more people may participate occasionally or not become paid members). Baronies are run by a baron and baroness, who represent the king and queen. Calontir has six baronies:
 * Barony of Forgotten Sea (Kansas City metropolitan area): Founded as a shire of the Middle Kingdom in November 1976 after an earlier group (the Shire of the Fountains) had disbanded, Forgotten Sea became a barony on February 10, 1979.  They are home to Calontir's first female knight, Ariel of Glastonbury Tor, who has also reigned three times as Queen of Calontir.
 * Barony of the Lonely Tower (Omaha, Nebraska): Lonely Tower was founded as a shire of the Middle Kingdom in July 1979 and became a barony on June 21, 1986.
 * Barony of the Three Rivers (St. Louis, Missouri): The second SCA group in St. Louis by that name (an earlier one, now known as the "Lost Colony of Three Rivers", had disbanded), Three Rivers was founded as a shire in 1975; when it was created a barony on May 27, 1978, it was the first barony in what would become Calontir, and also the only one until Forgotten Sea became a barony in 1979.
 * Barony of Coeur d'Ennui (Des Moines, Iowa): Founded as a shire of the Middle Kingdom in October, 1982, Coeur d'Ennui became a barony of Calontir in July, 1984.
 * Barony of Mag Mor (Lincoln, Nebraska): Mag Mor was founded as a shire of the Middle Kingdom in October 1982.    Still a shire at the time, they hosted the coronation of the first king and queen of Calontir in 1984.  Mag Mor became a barony in January 1996.
 * Barony of Vatavia (Wichita, Kansas): Vatavia began as a shire in January, 1983, and became a barony of Middle Kingdom in August, 1983.

The Barony of Dumnonia was founded in Iowa City, Iowa in December 1975, but became defunct before the founding of Calontir. The Iowa City area is now home to the Shire of Shadowdale. The typical local SCA group, somewhat smaller than a barony, is a shire. There are 19 shires in Calontir and one shire-march (a shire on the border between two kingdoms), called Grimfells, which is in the Fayetteville, Arkansas area. Colleges are similar to shires but located in areas with large student populations; Calontir has two colleges (Bellewode in Kirksville, Missouri and No Mountain in Grinnell, Iowa). It also has three cantons, which are "fiefdoms" of a barony distant enough to be able to have meetings and events of their own but close enough to not be independent shires, and several unofficial local contacts in areas with too small a membership to form an official group.

title: Kingdom of Calontir


text:
Talk:Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua

Fijian Alliance
A big welcome to the anonymous editor who has done much in the last couple of days to improveFiji-related articles on Wikipedia. For many months, I've had the job almost all to myself, and I'm so pleased to be joined by someone who is both able and willing to contribute. Thank you for correcting many of my own errors.

I believe the term Fijian Alliance is accurate. That was the formal name of the party, according to Ratu Mara himself in his autobiography, The Pacific Way. It was technically a coalition of parties - the Fijian Association, the National Indian Congress, and a party (whose name slips my memory) representing the European minority in Fiji. The Alliance served as an umbrella organization; each constituent party retained its identity. Electorally, it functioned as a single party, and was generally known as the "Alliance Party." Mara himself uses that term throughout his book, but states clearly that officially, it was the Fijian Alliance.

 * well you are wrong. the alliance was made up of the Fijian Association, the Indian Alliance, and the General Electors Association.  Given that the word "fijian" has been a word of some contreversy, thanks to the national name debate, calling a ostensibly multiracial party by the name "Fijian Alliance" would not be countenanced.
 * --Xorkl000 15:20, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Wrong? If I am wrong, Ratu Mara is wrong.  That is what he declares the party's formal name (as opposed to its informal name) to be, unless my memory of his autobiography is wildly off-base.  I'll get it out of the library again and check, however, before being too dogmatic.  If I'm wrong, I'll retract what I said and change the article name.  If I'm right, I'll give you the page numbers.  BTW, he defined the word "Fijian" differently from the way most people do.  In his book, he says that he tried, and failed, to make the label apply legally to all Fijian citizens, and to use the work Taukei to refer to ethnic Fijians. David Cannon 23:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * thats not my recollection, get the book and lets see it, i can also drop down to national archives and see what was officially lodged with the supervisor of elections.

United Fiji Party vs Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua
You made a comment that the SDL is almost never called the Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua by the local media, and that the article should accordingly be renamed. I don't know whether to agree or disagree. My sentiments lean towards using national names of political parties whenever possible. A consensus was established, however, long before I joined Wikipedia, that all political parties should be labeled by their English names, if such exist, or by a translation, if not. (User:Adam Carr (and others) have argued, plausibly, that as this is an English-language encyclopedia, party names should be in English, and I don't feel strongly enough the other way to argue the case.

 * let me quote from List of political parties in Fiji

 * The general rule on naming applies. That means: the parties are named in the English translation and the original native name is placed on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form.

 * "Read any english language newspaper or listen to english language radio in Fiji, and you will never see or hear the words "United Fiji Party". According the rule quoted above "the native form is more commonly used in English than the English form" then the page should be renamed.

 * we don't call Sinn Fein "Ourselves Alone", nor do we call Fianna Fail "Soldiers of Destiny", so i think the choice is obvious - I could go on (indian BJP, indonesian Golkar) but i think i won't

--Xorkl000 15:09, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * But what about outside of Fiji? This is an international encyclopedia, not a Fijian one.  OUTSIDE of Fiji, the term "United Fiji Party" is used generally, with the Fijian name in parenthesis, in most international newspapers and magazines. David Cannon 23:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * i live in fiji and most of what i read is in the english language, so I'm basing this purely on my own experience. I think the way to settle this would be google, yahoo, msn, search on both terms, and remove the fiji based sites and compare numbers.  Shall we carry out these experiment independently? --Xorkl000 12:02, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Anyway, thank you for your work! I hope you're here to stay. David Cannon 00:14, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Xork.

S.D.L should not be referred to as United Fiji Party. It can be confused with United Peoples Party headed by Mick Beddoes. Secondly, the names for the party should carry the name used in Fiji. Translating the name to English can be mis-leading.

 * Wikipedia here is following the general practice of using English names for political parties in non-English speaking countries (e.g. Liberal Democratic Party of Japan, etc.). This policy was in place long before I came to wikipedia.  Personally, I'm more than willing to switch to the official Fijian names, but that would have to be done consistently.  I'll have a look at some of the other countries and see whether there is any precedent to follow. David Cannon 03:55, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I just did the google test and the results are uttery conclusive: Furthermore the most first page of results for United Fiji Party are from Wikipedia or wikipedia derivivative - its seems this is the only place perpetuating this name. Its clear that this must be moved for the following reasons: So as soon as someone has the time, could they please process the move --Xorkl000 22:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua 13,300
 * United Fiji Party 901
 * Google test results are clear
 * UFP is too easily confused with UPP as noted by the anonymous poster
 * Wikipedia policy and precedent is also clear - we do not translate "Finna Fail", "Sinn Fein", "BJP", "Golkar" as the english translations are never used - the japanese Jiminto is a completely different case as LDP is the common english name.

title: Talk:Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua


text:
Ruislip Manor tube station

Ruislip Manor is a London Underground station in Ruislip Manor in west London. The station is on the Uxbridge branch of both the Metropolitan line and Piccadilly line, between Ruislip and Eastcote stations. The station is located on Victoria Road, where the line crosses on a bridge: there are two curved entrances, with access to the platforms being by stairways. It is in Travelcard Zone 6. The closest station on the Central line is Ruislip Gardens.

History
The Metropolitan Railway (Harrow and Uxbridge Railway) constructed the line through Ruislip Manor between Harrow on the Hill and Uxbridge and commenced services on 4 July 1904 with, initially, the only intermediate stop being at Ruislip. At first, services were operated by steam trains, but track electrification was completed in the subsequent months and electric trains began operating on 1 January 1905.

On 1 March 1910, an extension of the District line from South Harrow to connect with the Metropolitan Railway at Rayners Lane was opened enabling District line trains to serve stations between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge from that date.

Progressive development in the west Middlesex area over the next two decades lead to the gradual opening of additional stations along the Uxbridge branch to encourage the growth of new residential areas. Ruislip Manor opened on 5 August 1912 as Ruislip Manor Halt.

On 23 October 1933 District line services were replaced by Piccadilly line trains.

During the 1930s the number of passengers using the station increased greatly - from 17,000 in 1931 to 1.25m in 1937. To serve this enlarged number, a rebuilt station was opened on 26 June 1938.

The station was given a major overhaul during 2005–2006. Both platforms were sequentially rebuilt, resulting in trains not stopping at each platform for a period of approximately four months. Work was completed in Autumn 2006. Local Green Party members commented that improved disability access has not been included in this overhaul. The station has a seemingly above average number of stairs up to the platforms, as the station is raised a significant amount above street-height in order to allow tall vehicles to pass beneath the station bridge, which is immediately before the station.

Metropolitan line
The Metropolitan Line is the only line to operate an express service, though currently for Metropolitan Line trains on the Uxbridge branch this is eastbound only in the morning peaks (06:30 to 09:30) Monday to Friday.

The off-peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 8tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (all stations)
 * 8tph Westbound to Uxbridge

The morning peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 2tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (semi-fast)
 * 4tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (all stations)
 * 4tph Eastbound to Baker Street (all stations)
 * 10tph Westbound to Uxbridge

The evening peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 7tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (all stations)
 * 3tph Eastbound to Baker Street (all stations)
 * 10tph Westbound to Uxbridge

Piccadilly line
Between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge there is no Piccadilly Line service before approximately 06:30 (Monday - Friday) and 08:45 (Saturday - Sunday), except for one early morning departure from Uxbridge at 05:18 (Monday - Saturday) and 06:46 (Sunday).

The off-peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 3tph Eastbound to Cockfosters
 * 3tph Westbound to Uxbridge

The peak time service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 6tph Eastbound to Cockfosters
 * 6tph Westbound to Uxbridge

Connections
London Buses routes 114, H13 and 398 serve the station.

title: Ruislip Manor tube station


text:
Johann Ernst Hanxleden

Johann Ernst Hanxleden (1681–1732), better identified as Arnos Pathiri, was a German Jesuit priest and missionary, best known for his contributions as a Malayalam and Sanskrit poet, grammarian, lexicographer, and philologist. He lived in India for most part of his life and became a scholar of Sanskrit and Malayalam languages before authoring Puthen Pana, a poem on the life of Jesus Christ, Malayalam–Portuguese Dictionary, the first dictionary in Malayalam as well as two linguistic treatises, Malayalavyaakaranam and Sidharoopam.

Early life
Johann Ernst Hanxleden was born at Ostercappeln, near Osnabrück, in Lower Saxony, Germany in 1681. While studying philosophy at his home town of Osnabruck, he met Wilhelm Weber, a Jesuit priest to whom he volunteered for service in India as a part of the then Jesuit mission in Malabar. On 30 October 1699 he set out on a long journey to India, along with Wilhelm Weber and another Jesuit priest, Wilhelm Meyr, travelling through present day Italy, the Ottoman Empire, Syria, Armenia, and Persia to reach Surat (of present-day Gujarat), India on 13 December 1700. During the journey, he entered into a novitiate and proceeded to Goa where there was a large community of Jesuits.

In India
After completing his spiritual formation (Novitiate) in Goa, Hanxleden was sent to a Jesuit Seminary at Sampaloor in Thrissur District of the south Indian state of Kerala. It is at St. Paul's Seminary in Sampaloor, he did his theological studies for preparing himself to receive priesthood. He took time also to initiate himself to the local language, Malayalam and more importantly studied the Syriac, the liturgical language of the Thomas Christians of Kerala. He was ordained priest in 1706. In addition to his mother tongue German, and his mastery of Malayalam, he also had a good command over Latin, Syriac, Portuguese, Sanskrit, and Tamil.

After moving to Palayoor, Hanxleden studied Sanskrit too and improved his Malayalam, learning under the tutelage of Namboodiri scholars such as Kunjan and Krishnan from Angamaly and Thekkemadom from Thrissur. From 1707 to 1711, he served as secretary to John Ribeiro, the then Archbishop of Cranganore and visited many places in Kerala on tasks such as preaching and Catechesis. It is recorded that he also served as the vicar of the main church in Malabar. Later, he moved to Velur, Thrissur, a small village near Thrissur District in 1712 and built the Velur Forane Church. From 1729 onward, he spent his time between Velur, Sampaloor, Palayoor and Pazhuvil and it was at Pazhuvil he suffered a snake bite which resulted in his death on 20 March 1732, at the age of 51. He was buried there but, later, when a memorial was built outside the church, his mortal remains were transferred to it; the memorial also houses a historical museum.

The church and his home in Velur have since been declared as a protected monument by the Government of Kerala. Among various exhibits at the museum are the bed used by Hanxleden and the chathurangam (which Hanxleden used to play) columns marked on the floor of his home. Mar Francis Vazhapilly, Metropolitan Archbishop of Thrissur from 1921 to 1942, used to stay at the Velur Forane Church for a few days during Lent so that he could sleep on the bed used by Arnos Paathiri and drink from the well dug during his times.

His life has been documented in many books; Arnos Pathiri - a Biography, written by A. Adappur, a Catholic priest Arnos Pathiri, written by Mathew Ulakamthara Arnos Pathiri - Jeevacharithram of N. K. Jos and Arnos Padri, written by C. K. Mattam count among them.

Legacy
Arnos Paathiri's oeuvre comprises poems, dictionaries and grammar books and two of his prominent literary works are Puthen Pana and Chathuranthyam.

Puthen Pana
The Puthen Pana, a Malayalam epic on the life of Jesus Christ, is Arnos Pathiri's most popular poem and it is one of the earliest poems written in simple Malayalam. It has been an inalienable part of Christian (not restricted to Catholic) life in Kerala since the time of its composition; its paadhams are sung in a characteristic manner in Christian households on various solemn occasions, the most notable ones being Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and other days of Holy Week and Lent and evenings preceding funerals. It is reported that he wrote Puthen Pana sitting by the well of Pazhuvil Forane church.

The poem which follows a similar style to the noted work, Jnanappana of Poonthanam Nambudiri, consists of fourteen Paadhams; the couplets are written in the Sarppini Vruththam, except for those in the twelfth Paadham, which are in the Nathonnatha metre. The twelfth Paadham on the lament of the Virgin Mary at the crucifixion and death of Jesus is the heart of the poem. Other important Paadhams are concerned with the Fall of Man (second), the Annunciation (fourth), the Nativity (fifth), the Sermon on the Mount (seventh), the Last Supper (tenth), the trial and Crucifixion (eleventh), the Resurrection (thirteenth), and the Ascension (fourteenth). The first paadham has the poet telling us that the poem is being written on request from Antonio Pimental, the Archbishop of Cranganore; Pimental held the ecclesiastical office from 1721 to 1752, the poem is estimated to have been composed some time during the period 1721–1732.

Chathuranthyam
The Chathuranthyam is a mystic poem on the four ends of man: Maranam, Vidhi, Moksham and Narakam parts of the poem are sung on occasions similar to the Puththenpaana recitals. While his poems are written works, they also have a strong oral tradition; many pious Christians learn his poetical works by heart for recitals.

Malayalam–Portuguese Dictionary
Arnos Pathiri was the first to compile a Malayalam Dictionary and his lexicon described Malayalam words in both Sanskrit and Portuguese.

Others
Pathiri was the first European to write a Sanskrit grammar Grammatica grandonica and also the first European to compose Sanskrit verse. He also wrote a short and succinct grammar for the Malayalam language. Along with his predecessor, Heinrich Roth, he was one of the pioneering European Sanskrit scholars, and he has written several essays on Ramayana and Mahabharata, in Latin. Marana Parvam, Vidhi Parvam, Moksha Parvam, Naraka Parvam, Umma Parvam, Misiha Charitham, and Jehova Parvam are some of his other works.

Arnos Padre Academy is an eponymous organization based in Velur, established in memory of Hanxleden and the academy has taken steps to get his writings translated into English with the help of European scholars.

Selected works

 * Chathuranthyam
 * Genevieva Punyacharithram
 * Ummaadaey Dhukhkham
 * Malayalavyaakaranam
 * Samskrutham – Portuguese Dictionary
 * Samskruthavyaakaranam
 * Ave Maris Stella
 * Samskruthavyaakaranam
 * Ave Maris Stella

title: Johann Ernst Hanxleden


text:
Talk:Invisible Woman

Untitled
I added telekinisis to her powers and abilites section, if someone wants to clean it up for me, please do. Stats moved here. T-1000 00:28, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Original Research or Just wrongly worded objective description?
"In this reality, Sioux has near psychosis-level emotional detachment and may potentially have Borderline Personality Disorder" I'm no psycho[logist] but those are three different concepts not much related from what I read... Emotional detachment to psuchotic level? It has nothing to do with psychosis!!!! And what does Borderline Personality Disorder has to do with either anyway? I doubt a reader who is both a fan of the comics and a psychologist made this descriptino as it lacks any common denominator... but it is written as if there were such thing... Could someone give a better diagnosis? One that could illustrate better than these seemingly contradictory components... Thanks. Undead Herle King 01:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Basic Stats
Name: Susan Storm Richards

Occupation: Member of the Fantastic Four, financial manager for Fantastic Four Inc, occasional model and actress

Costume: Dark blue bodysuit. Black (or white) “V” neck, gloves, boots, & belt. Circle on left side of chest with a “4” insignia. (Made of unstable molecules).

Age: Late twenties (estimated about 28)

Height: 5' 11''

Weight: 160 lbs

Hair: Blonde

Eyes: Blue

 * Not according to the article. Not nearly so tall! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk) 03:38, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Death In The Family
This one-shot shows her death, followed by her being saved in an alternate timeline by Johnny of the first timeline. Does anybody know which one is the 616, default and so canon timeline/ universe. Basically, is she dead or not??? ChocolateRoses 20:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope. She was alive & well in the most recent ish of F4 (#538).
 * I'm still not seeing the point of the Death in the Family story. Dr Archeville 16:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

there was no point. it was filler *thumb down* — ChocolateRoses talk

Chili Storm and Susan Storm
Does anyone know of any canonical relationship between these two characters. The former is Millie the Model's redheaded friendly rival. Given how Patsy Walker became Hellcat, etc., it's not a far-fetched notion.
 * The OHOTMU "Women of Marvel" issue from last year (or was it the year before?) made a brief mention to this in Millie's entry, commenting that Sue was "possible a relative of Chili's." - Chris McFeely, 28th May 2006

Ben's feelings
Part of this article originally read "...and close friend the Thing, who possesses some unrequited romantic feelings towards her." I've removed the last part because, to my knowledge, those unrequited romantic feelings were last seen in issue #3 – 40 years ago. Have they resurfaced at some point recently? It sounds unlikely to me, but I haven't read every issue. ~ CZeke 04:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The Hulk
I read Exiles and they've mentioned how Sue took down the hulk in many of their realities and would "never shut up about it". Did this happen in mainstream (earth-616) fantastic four books as well? if so what issue? shouldn't it get a mention here? — ChocolateRoses talk

Not 616, unless them taking him down as a team counts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.5.136 (talk) 23:27, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Article name
Wouldn't you say she's better known to the general public as "Susan Storm" than "The Insivible Woman"? ~ZytheTalk to me! 12:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You're kidding, right? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 03:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Education/Expertise
I know Ulimate Sue Storm has several doctorates and is a biophysicist, but does the mainstream Invisible Woman have any particular expertise, or just her powers? Vignettelante 05:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't believe so. Her Marvel Universe entry states that the only thing she's been besides the Invisible Woman was a minor television actress. That's about it. Of course, that information is about 20 years old, so... HalfShadow 19:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Marvel Ultimate Alliance
I'm only a casual browser of Wikipedia, but I'm pretty sure all the information about Sue in the game is unnecessary or, at least, in need of formatting.

I entirely agree - so I've removed the excess detail - feel free to jump in and have a go yourself - if you get stuck - click on the "talk" in my name and I'll be happy to help. --Charlesknight 10:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section
For the record, I actually don't see the need for this section, but, since it does exist, I think it should be written in paragraph, rather than bullet-point format for the pusposes of concision and clarity.--Galliaz 20:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia is always done in bullet point form. - Charagon, 6-6-07

Sue's personality
There's practically nothing on Sue's characterisation. Surely the descrepancy between the original shy, intellectual version and the extraverted, promiscuous, spray on tan chick from the movies is notable? The other three members of the team have personality descriptions, but at the moment this article gives the impression that the personalities of female comic book characters are pretty much interchangable without anyone caring too much. A gx7 04:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ultinvwmn.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SueFF106.jpg
Image:SueFF106.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SueFF27.jpg
Image:SueFF27.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The original Fantastic Four Movie
Why is there no mention of the Fantastic Four movie from 1994 that was aborted. While it was nopt released it was still fully finished and could have been. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.137.237 (talk) 05:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it had no theatrical distribution. Teethmonkey (talk) 21:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Marvel Super Hero Squard game
I added information about Sue in the game. She's seen at the official page and in the trailer : http://marvelshsgame.marvel.com/

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Image deletion nomination(s)
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title: Talk:Invisible Woman


text:
User talk:Trav

Image source
Thank you for uploading Image:Ameling-Elly-7.jpg. Please leave a note on that page about the source of the image because of copyright law. Thank you. --Ellmist 00:22, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Trav


text:
Gretton, Northamptonshire

Gretton is a village and civil parish in North Northamptonshire. It is in Rockingham Forest and overlooks the valley of the River Welland and the neighbouring county of Rutland. At the time of the 2001 census, the parish had a population of 1,240 people, increasing to 1,285 at the 2011 census.

Geography
The village's name means 'Gravel farm/settlement' or perhaps, 'great farm/settlement'.

It is near the town of Corby and the Rockingham Motor Speedway.

History
The village is noted for having the tallest church tower in Northamptonshire, and the second-oldest running pub in Northamptonshire, the Hatton Arms. The Hatton Arms was recently renovated. The pub was originally part of Carlton Manor gatehouse in the 12th century. According to legend it became a pub in 1672 when the licence was granted to a negro servant who saved the life of Sir Christopher Hatton, Elizabeth I's chancellor, who lived in nearby Kirby Hall.

Gretton is one of the few villages to retain its stocks and whipping post, which can be found on the village green. The last recorded use was in 1858, when a villager was put in the stocks for six hours after failing to pay a fine for drunkenness.

Iron currency bars from the Iron Age have been found. The Roman colonists also worked the ironstone deposits in this area. There were ironworks here in Edward the Confessor's reign in the 11th century, when Gretton was a royal manor. The industry came to the fore again from 1881 to 1980, providing ore for Corby's steel works.

Landmarks
Most of the earlier houses – a fair number dating from the 17th century – are built of local limestone, sometimes banded with darker ironstone and roofed with thatch or Collyweston stone slate. The buildings in Gretton are of a wide variety in age and architectural style, ranging from the centuries-old 'Corner Cottage' in Arnhill Road, to a relatively modern housing estate on the south-east side of the village.

The Old School House, built in 1853, was the first purpose-built school in the village. The infants' classroom at the east end housed 70 children at times. The school operated until 1908, when the present school in Kirby Road was opened. Subsequently, it was used as the village community centre before being converted in the 1970s into a private house.

Stoneleigh House, in High Street, was formerly the premises of parchment makers. Springs were fed under the house into ponds which were used for soaking and cleaning the animal skins for preparation as parchment. Remnants of the drying sheds and other buildings still exist at the rear.

Opposite the village green is a stone-mullioned building, Tythe Farm. It has been considerably changed and extended, after having been in a serious state of disrepair during the last century. In 1919 the district surveyor found it to be unfit for human habitation. To the rear of the farm is the Tythe Barn (rebuilt after being destroyed by a fire in 1985), which used to store the 10% of village produce that was given by parishioners to the church.

The Post Office and Stores, in High Street, is part of a Victorian terrace called Pages Row. Formerly owned by a brewery, pigsties at the rear were rented out for sixpence a year. The Gretton Pig Club, in which owners and breeders traded information and sponsored breed improvements, operated from 1876 until 1977.

Overlooking the village green is the 'old' Gretton Stores (now Threeways), whose last storekeeper was Mr. Pegg. A fire in the early 1960s destroyed the upper floor and thatch.

This business was replaced by the 'newer' Gretton Stores. It was previously the White Hart pub, which closed in 1931. The Stores building is now used as a tea shop.

Stonycroft, in Station Road, is an 18th-century cottage. It has some narrow stone-mullioned windows, and a stonework panel over the door.

Gretton House, in High Street, is Georgian, but has a large neo-Jacobean addition of the 1880s. It was a family home until the Second World War, when it was requisitioned by the War Office as a military hospital. Following the war, it was converted for use as a convalescent home for employees of the Corby steel works. Since 1992 it has been a home for people with disabilities.

Manor Farmhouse, in High Street, is a good example of banded ironstone and limestone. It has a datestone of 1675. Originally called Warren Farm, it overlooked Warren Field. The names suggest that this was where the medieval manor obtained its rabbits.

The Old Vicarage, in Station Road, is 17th century with later additions. It was the vicarage until about 1830.

Gretton Primary School, in Kirby Road, built in 1908, has a stone bell tower and a schoolmaster's house. It is still the village school.

title: Gretton, Northamptonshire


text:
Hillingdon tube station

Hillingdon tube station is a London Underground station in North Hillingdon in the London Borough of Hillingdon, West London. Located between Uxbridge and Ickenham, it is in Travelcard Zone 6. It is the penultimate station on the Uxbridge branch of both the Metropolitan line and the Piccadilly line. Resited in 1992, it is also the most recently constructed station on the Metropolitan line.

History
The Metropolitan Railway (Harrow & Uxbridge Railway) constructed the line between Harrow on the Hill and Uxbridge; this was opened on 4 July 1904, with an intermediate station at Ruislip. At first services were operated by steam trains, before electrification was completed on 1 January 1905.

Development in north Middlesex over the next two decades led to the opening of additional stations to encourage the growth of new residential areas. Hillingdon was the last of these to open, on 10 December 1923, with Metropolitan and District line services.

On 23 October 1933, the District line service was replaced by the Piccadilly line. Between the mid-1930s and the mid-1950s the station was named Hillingdon (Swakeleys), a name which is still displayed on the platform roundels. The goods yard closed in August 1964.

New station in 1990s
To enable the widening of the A40 (Western Avenue) at Hillingdon Circus, the old station was demolished and a new station built to the south. Designed by architects Cassidy Taggart Partnership in a deconstructivism design, the new station opened to the south of the original on 6 December 1992. Widely acclaimed, the station received a 1996 Civic Trust Award for its design and the 1994 Underground Station of the Year award. The station was identified in July 2011 as one of the London Borough of Hillingdon's locally listed buildings.

The station has a car park and is accessible for those with disabilities without using stairs or escalators. It is staffed, but the ticket office was closed in July 2015. Next-train indicators were installed in the ticket hall and on both platforms during May 2016; this coincided with works aimed at improving the station, including cleaning the glass station canopy and sealing off areas of the roof to deter nesting birds.

In September 2019, a fight on the platform led to the murder of 20 year old Tashan Daniel. His two assailants were convicted of murder and manslaughter.

Metropolitan line
The Metropolitan line is the only line to operate an express service, though currently for Metropolitan Line trains on the Uxbridge branch this is eastbound only in the morning peaks (06:30 to 09:30) Monday to Friday.

The off-peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 8tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (all stations)
 * 8tph Westbound to Uxbridge

The morning peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 2tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (semi-fast)
 * 4tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (all stations)
 * 4tph Eastbound to Baker Street (all stations)
 * 10tph Westbound to Uxbridge

The evening peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 7tph Eastbound to Aldgate via Baker Street (all stations)
 * 3tph Eastbound to Baker Street (all stations)
 * 10tph Westbound to Uxbridge

Piccadilly line
Between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge there is no Piccadilly Line service before approximately 06:30 (Monday - Friday) and 08:45 (Saturday - Sunday), except for one early morning departure from Uxbridge at 05:18 (Monday - Saturday) and 06:46 (Sunday).

The off-peak service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 3tph Eastbound to Cockfosters
 * 3tph Westbound to Uxbridge

The peak time service in trains per hour (tph) is:
 * 6tph Eastbound to Cockfosters
 * 6tph Westbound to Uxbridge

Connections

 * London Buses routes 278 and U2
 * Oxford Tube

title: Hillingdon tube station


text:
User talk:Preet2005

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks.

title: User talk:Preet2005


text:
Talk:Jolie Gabor

RfC: What year of birth should be used in the article?
There is some disagreement among us with what birth year should be used in the article and what is considered a reliable source. Details are below under Year of Birth. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 19:19, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Unclear. From the sources mentioned in the Discussion, and from what looked up online, I see that there can be no certainty as to Jolie Gabor's date of birth. And the article should reflect the uncertainty by stating, probably in a footnote, the different birthdates that have been given. It will have to do until the real thing comes along. -The Gnome (talk) 20:14, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Reliability of available sources: Cindy Adams is a gossip columnist and, as such, not a Reliable Source. The Palm Springs Cemetery District, like most cemeteries in the world, is not obligated to look up or verify the deceased's birthdate, which is provided by undertaker or family - so, there is no inherent reliability. The ideal source would be the Hungarian Certificate of Birth or a news item originating from Hungary. Paging (again) Hungarian Wikipedians, szükségünk van a segítségedre!...-The Gnome (talk) 20:14, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Unclear Until reliable evidence is produced the article should be left as it is, demonstrating the uncertainty of the lady's birth date. Jack1956 (talk) 15:07, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Unclear Per Jack1956. Hipocrite (talk) 19:59, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

 * Unclear as per above - I am personally loathe to leave out a birthdate, but I hate not having reliable sources even more. The article will have to stay as is. On a side note, has anyone considered contacting someone at the Hungarian Wikipedia? They might have more resources than are available to us. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 19:34, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Cause of Death?
Although she was over 100, what was her official cause of death? Simply old age? And how is it that she was unaware of her daughter's death two years earlier? Was she senile, or was this information intentionally kept from her? 98.221.121.72 (talk) 01:12, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Dates and daughters
There appears to be an error on this page because it says she died two years after the death of her "eldest daughter" and give the link, but that daughter died the same year, according to her own page info. Perhaps the reference is supposed to be a reference to her youngest daughter Eva. I am no Gabor family specialist, so could someone who is please figure out which date or reference is in error and correct it? Carinamc (talk) 02:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Unaware of daughters death?
How could she have been unaware of her daughter's death if she attended the funeral?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-31749_162-10004252-6.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.210.47.219 (talk) 16:06, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * She didn't attend, that was a mistake -- the person holding Zsa Zsa's hand is Magda Gabor not Jolie. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 17:47, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

 * She lived a fairly isolated life, in a house perched on a cliff in a neighborhood so exclusive that most people living over 4 blocks from it don't even know it exists. The blue Rolls parked in front of the house for 30 years had no engine or transmission. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 14:32, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Year of birth
The only year of birth which has even marginal backing by some objective source is 1896 as per the text of the article which indicates that is what her Budapest birth certificate states. I am not entirely satisfied or happy, however that is apparently the most satisfactorily researched year. I myself thought Jolie Gabor was born in 1894 because Cindy Adams stated in a column after Jolie Gabor's death that Jolie was 102 when she died. However, I have read enough of Cindy Adams' columns to know that she is not entirely reliable as a source. She often rounds off or even exaggerates. Given Adams' own discomfort with her revealing her own age (fair enough), she really cannot be relied upon to give anyone else's. Particularly since the book is based on a conversation with Jolie herself! I also do not like the fact that the sources which continually revert Jolie's year of birth back to 1894 are all anonymous IP unregistered users who have provided no backup whatsoever. I am going to be watching this page. If the anonymous vandalism continues I will seek to have this page protected. If anyone has any real solid evidence regarding Jolie Gabor's year of birth, name at birth, etc., then register and provide it. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 13:05, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * NOTE: If any Hungarian Wikipedians read this — it will be greatly appreciated if someone could scan copies of Magdolna Gabor and Jancsi (or Janszieka) Tilleman (or Tillemann or Kende) birth certificates and upload here. Birth certificates in Hungary are a matter of public record as I understand it. Thanks in advance to any intrepid do-gooders. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 13:05, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It so happens that I'm currently looking at the "Interments of Interest" from the Palm Springs Cemetery District. The DOB they have, which I've incorporated into the article, is 1900. Unless other editors have a better WP:RS, I hope we can leave it as 1900. --S. Rich (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no way we can leave it at 1900. If you happened to read the text, she married in 1914 and gave birth to her first daughter in 1915. If you check her IMDb profile her year of birth is given as 1894, which is closer to the reality. Let's be honest, she and her daughters were less than honest re years of birth, so most sources re Jolie Gabor's year of birth, including the Social Security Death Index, to which she submitted a false year of birth (just like Joan Crawford and Lynn Fontanne did), are inaccurate. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 11:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes way we can leave it as 1900. What about WP:V, not truth? The PSCD is a public entity (established IAW California's Special District Law), has historical roots (back to 1894 with the founding of Welwood Murray Cemetery). and it maintains the grave of many other notables.  As such, PSCD is a much better WP:RS for this particular bit of data.  The "conflicting" 1900 date allows to two other possibilities: 1. the other dates are not accurate (nor backed up by RS), and 2. she really did have her first child at age 15 (girls were having sex back then just as they do now).  Since we do not have a reference actually quoting the SSN index and since IMDB is not a RS, the 1900 date is the best one to use.--S. Rich (talk) 15:44, 30 June 2011 (UTC)16:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Good Rms125a@hotmail.com! In my opinion, you should provide a reliable source and be done with it. The New York Times is a reliable source and if you cannot come up with a better one, nor cite where Piet Hein Honig has said 1896, then you have no source, and the speculation should go. It's that simple, again in my opinion which may not matter. I think this should be resolved by a request for comments. I'll do that now. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 19:13, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
 * PS -- We have her eldest daughter born in 1918, again based on the PSCD RS. So 1900 is actually a more creditable date.--S. Rich (talk) 16:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The PSCD is wrong again, and based on false SSDI (SS Death Index) data. Magda could not have been born in 1918 -- she peddled that year of birth, although her younger sister, Zsa Zsa (the middle daughter) was born in 1917, and the youngest of three, Eva, 1919, making 1918 impossible for Magda's year of birth. Jolie and her daughters lied like rugs about their ages. What's so hard to get about that? Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 12:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC). Also, this source cites 1894 as Jolie's year of birth. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 13:09, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But then this reference from Zsa Zsa's BLP gives a YOB as 1919. (Although the dates in her BLP remain unedited.) So she preserves her status as the middle sib. If the SSDI info is false, then the WP:BURDEN is shifted to show how or where it is false.  Again, PSCD as a government entity is more reliable. Rather than citing Daniel Day, who posted lots of photos of faux jewels and who is perhaps paraphrasing Gaboralia, could we have a cite from the actual book? (Day's entry looks like a blog. ImageEvent allows users to post whatever they like. )  That would help.--S. Rich (talk) 16:03, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Srich - the reference you cite for 1919 year of birth is from a source (Film Reference.com) which is just as unreliable as IMDb, if not more so, and is constantly being updated. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 23:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Srich: "Again, PSCD as a government entity is more reliable." NO, it is not, evidently. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 23:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Srich: "Rather than citing Daniel Day" -- I don't know who that is offhand, but if that source is the one which provides the biodata re Jolie Gabor's WW2 travails and her arrival in the U.S. on December 31, 1945, it sounds pretty accurate to me. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 23:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, Zsa Zsa was born in 1917, per virtually all sources reporting on her, which give her age as 94, and have done since her birthday in February. Secondly, even if Zsa Zsa were to have been born in 1919 -- which she wasn't -- how could her younger sister, Eva, have been born in 1919 also. They weren't twins -- how could Zsa Zsa have been born on February 6, 1919 and Eva on February 11, 1919?? (Eva gave her year of birth as 1921 for many years but when she died and after her death the true year as 1919 came out, confirmed by the Social Security Death Index). Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 23:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

RMS, we are finally reaching the last of the Gabor Ladies -- Eva.
 * You say she was born in 1919, but the NYT obit which I just posted has her at age 74 in 1995. This gives a YOB of 1921.
 * So, again, the sequence supporting my year count is confirmed. E.g.: Jolie YOB -- 1900 (per PSCD); daughter Magda YOB -- 1918 (per PSCD); daughter Zsa Zsa YOB -- 1919 (per the FilmReference.com page); and daughter Eva YOB -- 1921 (per NYT Obit).
 * The continual updating of material on film reference.com does not mean anything -- what are we doing right now? We are updating the info posted on WP!
 * Perhaps the NYT Obit on Eva is incorrect. (But NYT is almost per se WP:RS!) However, the rootsweb.com page on Eva does not have a "V" or "P" notation for the 1919 date. This mean means they have neither "(V)=(Verified) Report verified with a family member or someone acting on behalf of a family member" nor "(P)=(Proof) Death Certificate Observed" the date they give.
 * Regarding "Daniel Day" -- that is the name posted at the very top of the "Jewels" blog which you cited.
 * And you requested that someone in Hungary scan the birth certs for the ladies. May I suggest you obtain the SS-5 forms on Eva, Madga & Jolie -- they are available at here.  (Oops! rootsweb.com calls the form an "SS-5". The SSA.gov page calls it a "Form SSA-711 Internet Request". I guess rootsweb was wrong.)
 * RMS, sooner or later I'm sure we can settle down on which RS we should use. I hope you enjoying the stuff I provide to chew on. And thanks for a very interesting discussion! --S. Rich (talk) 01:12, 2 July 2011 (UTC) Actually, RMS, I'm looking now at some more NYT articles -- they are giving dates for Zsa Zsa which put her YOB as 1917. The NYT does not have much on Magda. But the rootsweb.ancestory.com results on Magda come up with 1918 as the YOB, and more importantly with a "V". 01:58, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * " May I suggest you obtain the SS-5 forms on Eva, Madga & Jolie -- they are available at here. (Oops! rootsweb.com calls the form an "SS-5". The SSA.gov page calls it a "Form SSA-711 Internet Request". I guess rootsweb was wrong.)" -- No, thanks, as the years provided to the Social Security Administration by Jolie and Magda were incorrect. I am surprised you would find the actual birth certificates (or info contained therein) less reliable than the Social Security Death Index, which is quite reliable (I rely on it a lot), but not if the recipient has not provided accurate info. (as I have pointed out) or if they mess up (i.e. I know someone who was born January 17, and they have January 18, typo or whatever). As far as Eva, we will have to agree to disagree. I suggest we leave the Gabor pages as they are for now, after I finish tweaking, in line with the above to illustrate the discrepancies and disputes re years of birth. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 17:24, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that the present first para is the best approach, except that the source needs to be added for the 1894 date.  No secondary source is fully reliable for birthyear, and even official records can have errors. Going by experience with my extended family, I'd prefer government records made at the time of birth to anything recorded later, including later government records. But if another ordinarily reliable source like the NYT has a different date, it should be given, if only to avoid confusion because that's the date most people will have seen.   DGG ( talk ) 16:48, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no reason that the DoB cannot be given as a range, or footnoted or both. Rich Farmbrough, 11:41, 20 October 2011 (UTC).

Death paragraph is confusing
I rewrote the paragraph under Death, and I'm still not convinced it's done well. The problem is that it read like a book of trivia. For example, as it was written before, it listed Eva's date of death which shouldn't be included in a paragraph that is about Jolie's death. If the user is curious about that, they can visit Eva's wiki page. Also I don't like the mention of her sole grandchild. That should be part of the article when discussing her family. I don't know, I think the whole paragraph needs to go entirely and be rewritten. Her death should only include information about her death, when, where, why etc. I have to agree too with the person who posted Cause of Death. That part where it says she was unaware of her daughter's death leaves no explanation. It should be stricken entirely in my opinion, but instead I tagged it asking for a citation. MagnoliaSouth (talk) 19:55, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Jolie's correct maiden name!!!
Jolie Gabor gave her father's surname as Kende and her daughters Magda and Eva Gabor gave their mother's maiden name as Kende, as per [http://www.familytreelegends.com/records/39772?6_month=0&SubmitSearch.x=30&SubmitSearch.y=13&last=Gabor&SubmitSearch=Submit&5_day=0&c=search&spelling=Exact&5_month=0&6_day=0&offset=60 ''California Deaths, 1940-1997. Family Tree Legends Records Collection (Online Database). Pearl Street Software, 2004-05''.]

 * This just goes to show that "autobiographer" Cindy Adams is completely unreliable. I realized that long ago just by reading her columns in the New York Post. Quis separabit?  01:28, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

 * I'm giving Tilleman as Gabor's maiden name; please see the notations for this.Kitchawan (talk) 06:29, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Jolie Gabor, by Jolie Gabor as told to Cindy Adams (Mason Charter, 1975), clearly states that Jolie's maiden name was Tilleman. She says that her father was Josef Tilleman and that her mother was Franceska "Francie" Reinherz. Like the book and its co-author or not, that's what the authorized memoir says, and surely Jolie Gabor would have known her own maiden name.Kitchawan (talk) 06:41, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Jolie Gabor, by Jolie Gabor as told to Cindy Adams (Mason Charter, 1975), also clearly states that KENDE was the surname of Franceska Reinherz Tilleman's second husband, whom she married after Josef Tilleman's death and whom she abandoned before the honeymoon, fleeing back to Budapest and never seeing him again.Kitchawan (talk) 07:00, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

 * I would feel on safer ground if we would leave her birth name as 'Jansci per her own memoirs. Surely should have known her own name. In the same memoir she states that Jansci is Hungarian for Johnny or Little John, since her father wanted a boy. The use of the name Johanna on her eventual Portuguese passport might well be camouflage, subterfuge or anything else. Until that is determined, I think multiple uses of Jansci, per the subject of this article, outweighs one use of Johanna. And again, while I realize that some contributors do not trust Cindy Adams as a source, it must be assumed with some strength and commitment that the subject of an "as told to" memoir approved the use of her names, first, middle, last, married, and otherwise.Kitchawan (talk) 15:27, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Agreed (by me anyway); you have convinced me. Quis separabit?  21:14, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Jolie's sisters
This extract seems to indicate that Jolie's sisters survived and died in Australia, although the years of birth of Jolie's mother and grandmother are insane and virtually impossible to be accurate. Any other ideas or comments re reliability? Thanks. Quis separabit? 12:46, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Memoirist?
With great respect, Rms125a, I can’t see that she was exactly notable for her autobiographical writings.

As it says in the article, Jolie ‘lent her name’ to two books, one of them an as-told-to memoir, co-authored by a family friend (‘Gabor approached Adams to write the book...’), the other a Hungarian cookbook ‘written with’ two other people. So she’s hardly Madame de Sévigné.

I won’t revert at this point. But you may like to consider doing so. Valetude (talk) 16:04, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

I note this post from is over a year old,. I have to agree: if Gabor wrote nothing more than what's listed above, those two books don't make anyone a memoirist. Further, I've noted the use of a blog as source for the article subject's birthdate? That's not a reliable source. Can we please discuss these two points? Thanks,-- WV ● ✉ ✓ 15:21, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

 * I see that the 'memoirist' category has been duly deleted. I thought it logical to delete the various 'writer' categories too. Valetude (talk) 23:48, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Other relationships
It' impossible for her to have a relationship with Mustada Kemal Atatürk. He died in 1938 when she was 21 years old. She didn't come to Turkey, neither did Aratürk go to the USA. However she had a relationship with the Turkish actor Muzaffer Tema. 212.253.204.216 (talk) 11:14, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Nazi occupation, Budapest, Gabor parents: 8 July 1944
Jolie Gabor; Vilmos Gábor; History of the Jews in Portugal; Carlos Sampaio Garrido

Diplomatic telegrams regarding Gabors in Budapest and Switzerland :
 * ....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 07:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 07:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ....0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 07:11, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jolie Gabor


text:
User:Preet2005

Hi. Please see your Talk page (re adding substub tag to Wikipedia pages). Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 00:28, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Preet2005


text:
Talk:Foolscap folio

in Canada in the 80s?
I remember foolscap paper being referred to often in school in the 80s in Canada - it referred to slightly longer paper but also a lower quality paper for drafts (ie closer to newsprint quality).

Size in metric
Just looking at the sizes stated, given that 1 inch = 25.4 mm, wouldn't the following be more accurate (to the nearest millimetre)?

8½ × 13½ inches (216 × 342 mm) -> 216 × 343 mm

17 x 13½ inches (432 × 342 mm) -> 432 × 343 mm

Given 25.4 mm/inch × 13.5 inches = 342.9 mm (which rounds to 343 mm, not 342 mm)

I'll change it and let you pick over all 0.1 mm of it :) Mattabat 07:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Since these are defined values why not give exact conversions? J IM ptalk·cont 03:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

More widespread use in USA
Can someone expand on the assertion: "Recently it has met more widespread use in some circles in the United States". Which circles? When? --Theo (Talk) 00:28, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

ring binders
Should we mention that it is a common size for ring binders/lever arch files containing A4 paper, because it offers greater protection to the edge of the pages than an A4 binder? Thryduulf 08:29, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, we should, so I have! Be bold in updating pages --Theo (Talk) 10:37, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * How is it better? That is in no way clear...Empaler 02:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Uh...
There has been some confusion somewhere. The paper size that we Brazilians variously name "Folio" or "Oficio II" is 8 1/2 x 13 inches, not 8 1/2 x 13 1/2. Luis Dantas 22:54, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

bitching about "Legal" being the proper name in respect to a different country and language is at least impolite.

 * Seeing as it is a different size and also not referred to as "Foolscap", I think the Brazilian Oficio is out of place here. Corwin.amber (talk) 11:16, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Blue Book
There should be a refence to "Blue Books" that many students use on tests that are made from these sheets.

Legalese
I came here looking for the definition in terms of the legal writing community. My impression is that the foolscap folio is used to bind smaller sheets of a legal document such as a pleading or a complaint or a motion. It is usually blue and imprinted with the author's name at the binding edge and the case caption on the back. Does anyone have corroboration or additional insight into this use of the word?

The size of paper was actually used to make caps to wear in class rooms as a punishment to naughty boys. There after when the printing machine was invented and the same size of paper was used for printing. The word fool's cap was used as an identification to the size — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.72.57.202 (talk) 06:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Nonsense! You try making a paper hat out of a sheet of foolscap and see how well it fits on a head! The originak;l Victorian foolscap paper had a watermark in the shape of a jester's hat. You can see some examples here: [] Stub Mandrel (talk) 20:27, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

"For Normal"?
This sentence: `(for "normal" writing paper, 13 × 8 in (330 × 200 mm))`, does not in fact say anything and just contributes to the overall confusion in this article. What is "normal" paper? Is 13 × 8 a variant of Foolscap? Why is it even mentioned? Corwin.amber (talk) 11:20, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

 * 'Normal' as in to be used for writing or typing letters compared with paper that was to be used for 'printing'. Given that printing was generally not widely carried out at a domestic/office level until the late 1980's, this would have been commercial printing, or so I presume. 92.8.133.167 (talk) 18:12, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I would imagine printers would use full size foolscap folio and then trim after folding and binding (or not, leaving the reader to cut each page with a paper knife), whereas letter paper was sold pre-trimmed to 13 x 8.
 * Possibly the printers' size had (traditionally) irregular edges, whereas writing paper was nicely trimmed similarly to how timber was traditionally sold. A length of, say, 3"x2" rough sawn timber has actual dimensions of 3"x2", whereas 3"x2" planed all round timber might have actual dimensions of 2¾" x 1⅞" as it was planed from a 3"x2" actual dimensions length of rough sawn as a second process.
 * It would be interesting to hear this confirmed or negated by someone with actual experience in commercial printing.92.8.133.167 (talk) 18:24, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Foolscap folio


text:
Harpole

Harpole is a village 4 mi west of Northampton, in the West Northamptonshire district, in Northamptonshire, England, along the A4500 road (formerly the A45) about 1 mi east of the M1 Motorway junction 16. In 2011 the parish had a population of 1546.

The village's name means "filthy pool".

Governance
Prior to from 1974 to 2021 it was in the district council area of South Northamptonshire where it was part of Harpole and Grange ward, together with the parishes of Milton Malsor, Kislingbury, Rothersthorpe and Gayton. It was also in the area of Northamptonshire County Council and is in the Parliamentary Constituency of Daventry. The MP is currently Chris Heaton-Harris (Conservative).

Geography and history
The M1 London to Yorkshire motorway junctions 16 and 15a are 2 mi west and 3 mi south of Harpole respectively. It is 69 mi north of London and 42 mi southeast of Birmingham.

A Roman mosaic floor uncovered in 1846-48 identifies the site of a Roman villa north of the village.

In April 2022 archaeologists found an Anglo-Saxon woman's grave, the Harpole bed burial, at a site in Harpole being developed for housing by Vistry. The discovery was announced in December 2022 and described as "the most significant early medieval female burial ever discovered in Britain".

Demographics
2001 census data shows 1,547 people resident in the Parish Council area consisting of 755 males and 792 females (the 2009 estimated population is 1,557 ), in 636 households, of which 82.6% were owner occupied or being purchased with a mortgage.

Village events
Harpole hosts a scarecrow weekend in September. There is also an event in December where Santa drives around the village, as in, following him.

Harpole bed burial
An early Christian Anglo-Saxon era burial site of a woman of high social standing was found in Harpole in spring 2022.

title: Harpole


text: Category:Swedish writers

title: Category:Swedish writers


text:
Chamfer

A chamfer ( or ) is a transitional edge between two faces of an object. Sometimes defined as a form of bevel, it is often created at a 45° angle between two adjoining right-angled faces.

Chamfers are frequently used in machining, carpentry, furniture, concrete formwork, mirrors, and to facilitate assembly of many mechanical engineering designs.

Terminology
In machining the word bevel is not used to refer to a chamfer. Machinists use chamfers to "ease" otherwise sharp edges, both for safety and to prevent damage to the edges.

A chamfer may sometimes be regarded as a type of bevel, and the terms are often used interchangeably.

In furniture-making, a lark's tongue is a chamfer which ends short of a piece in a gradual outward curve, leaving the remainder of the edge as a right angle. Chamfers may be formed in either inside or outside adjoining faces of an object or room.

By comparison, a fillet is the rounding-off of an interior corner, and a round (or radius) the rounding of an outside one.

Carpentry and furniture
Chamfers are used in furniture such as counters and table tops to ease their edges to keep people from bruising themselves in the otherwise sharp corner. When the edges are rounded instead, they are called bullnosed. Special tools such as chamfer mills and chamfer planes are sometimes used.

Architecture
Chamfers are commonly used in architecture, both for functional and aesthetic reasons. For example, the base of the Taj Mahal is a cube with chamfered corners, thereby creating an octagonal architectural footprint. Its great gate is formed of chamfered base stones and chamfered corbels for a balcony or equivalent cornice towards the roof.

Urban planning
Many city blocks in Barcelona, Valencia and various other cities in Spain, as well as Taichung, and street corners (curbs) in Ponce, Puerto Rico, are chamfered. The chamfering was designed as an embellishment and a modernization of urban space in Barcelona's mid-19th century Eixample or Expansion District, where the buildings follow the chamfering of the sidewalks and streets. This pioneering design opens up broader perspectives, provides pleasant pedestrian areas and allows for greater visibility while turning. It might also be considered to allow for turning to be somewhat more comfortable as, supposedly, drivers would not need to slow down as much when making a turn as they would have to if the corner were a square 90 degrees, though in Barcelona, most chamfered corners are used as parking spaces or loading-unloading zones, leaving the traffic to run as in normal 90-degree street corners.

Mechanical engineering
Chamfers are frequently used to facilitate assembly of parts which are designed for interference fit or to aid assembly for parts inserted by hand. Resilient materials such as fluid power seals generally require a shallower angle than 45 degrees, often 20. In assemblies, chamfers are also used to clear an interior radius - perhaps from a cutting tool, or to clear other features, such as a weld bead, on an adjoining part. This is because it is generally easier to manufacture and much easier to precisely check the dimensions of a chamfer than a radius, and errors in the profile of either radius could otherwise cause interference between the radii before the flat surfaces make contact with one another. Chamfers are also essential for components which humans will handle, to prevent injuries, and also to prevent damage to other components. This is particularly important for hard materials, like most metals, and for heavy assemblies, like press tools. Additionally, a chamfered edge is much more resistant than a square edge to being bruised by other edges or corners knocking against it during assembly or disassembly, or maintenance.

Machining
In machining a chamfer is a slope cut at any right-angled edge of a workpiece, e.g. holes; the ends of rods, bolts, and pins; the corners of the long-edges of plates; any other place where two surfaces meet at a sharp angle. Chamfering eases assembly, e.g. the insertion of bolts into holes, or nuts. Chamfering also removes sharp edges which reduces significantly the possibility of cuts, and injuries, to people handling the metal piece.

Glass mirror design
Outside of aesthetics, chamfering is part of the process of hand-crafting a parabolic glass telescope mirror. Before the surface of the disc can be ground, the edges must first be chamfered to prevent edge chipping. This can be accomplished by placing the disc in a metal bowl containing silicon carbide and rotating the disc with a rocking motion. The grit will thus wear off the sharp edge of the glass.

title: Chamfer