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User talk:Hillel

Just curious...why didn't your restore to the sourced correction that I had provided? --AustinKnight 22:08, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Never mind...I see what you're referencing now. This is a second-hand description, and one not consistent with the original Hebrew version of Genesis that I referred to. If the Tanakh calls it, directly, an angel, I'll defer...but second-hand descriptions will necessarily be erroneous...no offense intended. --AustinKnight 22:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

To review the source for the original (and free, by the way) Hebrew version of Genesis (an interlinear translation is provided...you do not need to read Hebrew) see the link. Cheers, --AustinKnight 22:15, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

It's not a matter, really, of agreement or disagreement. The source document, i.e., the Tanakh or the original Hebrew Old Testament -- with a direct translation -- can solve this pretty quickly. I'm fine with either one, but would gladly defer to the Tanakh for obvious reasons. Using some 3rd-party's read into this, on the other hand, is not ideal...especially when the true source documents are readily available. This is truly a very simple sourcing issue. If Genesis is not being used for the source, then the Tanakh should be referenced. --AustinKnight 22:56, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Lo and behold...Wikipedia has the following in the Jacob article: "...a mysterious being ("a man", according to Genesis 32:24, or "the angel", according to Hosea 12:4) appeared and wrestled with Jacob until daybreak."

In other words, this will boil down to a choice, in the Tanakh, between the Torah and Genesis, or the Nevi'im and Hosea.

Do you have a reason for picking Hosea over Genesis...? --AustinKnight 23:06, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

The NYT
Why did you go to the effort of removing the capital "The" from The New York Times link in The Washington Post article? It is part of the paper's official name, right on the masthead, which is why "The" is part of the article name. - DavidWBrooks 11:26, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Rebecca J. Nelson
I've unearthed a bit more information about this person, you may want to change your vote on Articles_for_deletion/Rebecca_J._Nelson. Thanks. Crypticfirefly 05:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page
How's the issue with the user from Es:Wikipedia coming along? Do we know what's going on yet? -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 04:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Siddique Katiya
You have contributed to Memons page. The Siddique Katiya has created a duplicate article of Memon as Memons. The Memon article deals with Memons and the Memons page was a redirect. Siddique Katiya removed the redirect tag on 18:50, 9 May 2006 and created a duplicate article. I have requested a merge of both articles. But this tag was removed. I want these articles to be merged and make Memons page again a redirect as it was on 7 May 2006 or it should be deleted. Siddiqui 21:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother
I'm sorry, but are you not aware of the use of quotations marks (in North American terminology); inverted commas [" "] in UK terminology? These are symbols to indicate that the material occurring between these symbols is directly quoted from the source. You should not change material that appears in quotation marks (or inverted commas, if you prefer). Mrs Roosevelt's written comments used the ampersand [&] and because she is directly quoted -- that is what we use quotation marks (or inverted commas) for. So it is not proper to change the ampersand to "and" as you have done. Of course if the material were being indirected quoted, and without quotation marks (or inverted commas), it would be proper to make the change you made. The use of quotation marks (or inverted commas) is quite well understand among native speakers of English, whether they are in North America or the UK. It is generally something that is taught in school to children at around age 10, and perhaps it would be better if you did not interfere in this manner: I am assuming that you come to the English language as a relative newcomer. Masalai 11:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Apologies
On further reflection I extend my apologies for the above: I must have seemed patronising in the extreme, whereas I have a great deal of sympathy and admiration for those who come to English as a second language. My congratulations to you for dealing with the English-as-a-second-language issue so bravely. And good luck to you. Masalai 20:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi, You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Category:Mac OS
Category:Mac OS games is up for renaming, please see Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 28. – Fayenatic  L ondon 16:19, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hillel


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1952 in British music

This is a summary of 1952 in music in the United Kingdom, including the official charts from that year.

This year was a turning point for music in not only the UK, but all over the world. The first official UK Singles Chart began in November 1952, compiled by the NME. This made the United Kingdom the first country in the world to have an official singles chart and created it in many other countries, with the Billboard Hot 100 era beginning in 1958 in the U.S. The singles chart quickly became a phenomenon and record breaking became a new excitement for the public. Compiled solely on sales, it kept this trend until April 2005, when it was combined with legal downloads.

The Official UK Singles Chart
On the week ending 14 November 1952, NME published the first ever UK Singles Chart. Only a Top 12 at the time, it slowly grew over the years as nowadays sales data is gathered electronically and a Top 200 is compiled weekly for industrial purposes. During the rest of the decade and the early 1960s, there were many different charts formed and the general public were all confused as to which was the most accurate. The Official Charts Company uses NME until March 1960 and then uses Record Retailer until 1969, when an official sole chart was formed by an alliance between the two most popular charts.

To kick off the brand new chart, American jazz singer Al Martino had the first ever number one single in the UK with "Here in My Heart", which remains his biggest selling single. The song spent nine consecutive weeks at number one, which continued to be the longest consecutive run at number one until mid-1954. In second place was American pop singer Jo Stafford with "You Belong to Me", and, with the exception of one week, she stayed just one place behind the top spot for nine weeks, until she finally managed to knock Al Martino off the top in 1953. Another record-achiever went to English traditional popular music singer Vera Lynn, who had three singles within the top 10 at the same time with "Forget Me Not" (at number 7), "The Homing Waltz" (at number 9), and "Auf Wiederseh'n Sweetheart" (at number 10).

Other artists that had chart success in 1952 included Bing Crosby, Guy Mitchell, Mario Lanza, Rosemary Clooney, and Kay Starr, who had hits with "The Isle of Innisfree", "Feet Up", "Because You're Mine", "Half as Much", and "Comes A-Long A-Love".

Classical music

 * Benjamin Britten – Canticle II: Abraham and Isaac.
 * William Walton – Coronation Te Deum for the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II.

Opera

 * Michael Tippett – The Midsummer Marriage (not performed until 1955)

Film and Incidental music

 * William Alwyn
 * The Card, starring Alec Guinness.
 * Mandy directed by Alexander Mackendrick, introducing Mandy Miller and starring Jack Hawkins.
 * Malcolm Arnold
 * The Holly and the Ivy, starring Ralph Richardson, Celia Johnson, and Margaret Leighton.
 * The Sound Barrier directed by David Lean, starring Ralph Richardson.
 * Francis Chagrin – The Happy Family, starring Stanley Holloway, Kathleen Harrison and Naunton Wayne.
 * Brian Easdale – Outcast of the Islands directed by Carol Reed, starring Robert Morley, Trevor Howard, Ralph Richardson and Wendy Hiller.
 * Benjamin Frankel – The Importance of Being Earnest directed by Anthony Asquith, starring Michael Redgrave.
 * Philip Green – The Yellow Balloon
 * Antony Hopkins – The Pickwick Papers, starring James Hayter.

Births

 * 15 January – Melvyn Gale, cellist (Electric Light Orchestra)
 * 4 February – Jerry Shirley, drummer (Humble Pie and Fastway)
 * 17 February – Michael Marra, singer-songwriter (died 2012)
 * 21 February – Jean-Jacques Burnel, bassist The Stranglers
 * 5 March – Alan Clark, keyboard player
 * 19 March – Derek Longmuir, drummer (Bay City Rollers)
 * 9 May – Linda Finnie, Scottish soprano
 * 10 May – Lee Brilleaux, South African-English singer-songwriter (Dr Feelgood) (died 1994)
 * 9 June – Robert Sandall, musician, music journalist and radio presenter (died 2010)
 * 12 June – Oliver Knussen, Scottish composer (died 2018)
 * 3 July – Andy Fraser, singer-songwriter and bass player (Free, Sharks, and John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers)
 * 16 July – Gary Howard, musician (The Pathfinders)
 * 19 July – Dominic Muldowney, composer
 * 21 August – Joe Strummer, musician (The Clash) (died 2002)
 * 30 August – Simon Bainbridge, composer (died 2021)
 * 9 September – Dave Stewart, record producer (Eurythmics)
 * 26 September – Cilla Fisher, Scottish folk singer-songwriter (The Singing Kettle)
 * 2 October – Raymond Sargent, actor, musician and dramatist (died 2008)
 * 2 December – James Lancelot, organist and conductor
 * 27 December – David Knopfler, musician (Dire Straits)

Deaths

 * 5 February – Adela Verne, pianist and composer, 74
 * 10 April – Frederic Austin, baritone singer and composer, 80
 * 18 April – Leo Smith, cellist, composer and teacher who worked in Canada, 70
 * 19 April – Steve Conway, singer (b. 1920)
 * 25 July – Herbert Murrill, organist and composer, 53
 * 22 August – Llewela Davies, Welsh pianist and composer, 81
 * 6 September – Gertrude Lawrence, actress, singer, dancer (b. 1898)
 * 16 September – Vesta Tilley, music hall entertainer (b. 1864)
 * 21 October – Charles Draper, clarinetist, 82
 * 17 November – Charles Penrose, music hall performer (b. 1873)
 * date unknown
 * Charles Ancliffe, composer, 72
 * Mary Lucas, composer, 70

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: 1952 in British music


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Category:Mountain railways

This category contains articles relating to mountain railways.

title: Category:Mountain railways


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Talk:Gothic script

Comments
I think this article should be merged with blackletter. It's different names for the same script. The disambiguation page gothic suggest that there were a distinction between the handwriting script called gothic script and a typing script called blackletter, but it seems to me that this distinction is artificial (inexistent outside wikipedia). I believe that the lable blackletter is preferrable because it's less ambiguous: There's no danger of confusion with the gothic alphabet. Additionally, when the term gothic was chosen in the renaissance, it was intended as a despective name for an "outdated" and "ugly" script (in the eyes of a renaissancer). J. 'mach' wust 23:25, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, I've always seen the script called "Gothic", and "blackletter" to me sounds like a typographical script, or a modern typeface approximating Gothic forms (which we might also call "Old English" or something). What do you think most people would search for, Gothic or blackletter? I guess I don't really mind either way. Adam Bishop 08:09, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * If I were German (I am actually), I'd search for Fraktur! :) This is more easily proven not to be accurate, since most sources agree that the fraktur is only a specific style (in typing and in calligraphy) of blackletter/gothic script (the most used one). I'd say the name we choose is not a question of what most people suppose it is, but of what is more accurate.

 * If the distinction between typographical and handwritten script is usual, then we should point that out. However, my impression is that there isn't much of a difference in use. If there were such a distinction, what is the common term for both?

 * And I forgot that gothic is also used to refer to sans-serif. J. 'mach' wust 14:22, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I think Gothic is a kind of blackletter, but not all blackletter is Gothic. Gothic "script" is handwriting, and blackletter comes after the printing press - although they did use Gothic as a printing type as well. I'm not sure...maybe I have notes about this somewhere... Adam Bishop 15:26, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not blackletter
Nearly 20 years to late to comment but in case someone sees this discussion and is misled. In type design, Gothic type (or computer font) means sans-serif, not blackletter. See for example Bell Gothic, Century Gothic, Franklin Gothic, Letter Gothic, News Gothic and so on. As the Sans-serif article explains: "Gothic: Popular with American type founders. Perhaps the first use of the term was due to the Boston Type and Stereotype Foundry, which in 1837 published a set of sans-serif typefaces under that name. It is believed that those were the first sans-serif designs to be introduced in America. The term probably derived from the architectural definition, which is neither Greek nor Roman, and from the extended adjective term of 'Germany', which was the place where sans-serif typefaces became popular in the 19th to 20th centuries. Early adopters for the term include Miller & Richard (1863), J. & R. M. Wood (1865), Lothian, Conner, Bruce McKellar." The confusion is not unusual and continues with goth culture. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:32, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gothic script


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User talk:Rufous

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

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 * Remember Neutral point of view
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Good luck!

Meelar (talk) 23:26, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/BXML
Has your vote then changed to "Delete"? Thanks. -- Perfecto 17:26, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Shader fix coopertion...
I noticed your note on Talk:Shader. In case you forgot to add it to your watchlist, I wanted to drop a line to let you know I could support the review. MaxDZ8 18:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Revert
Please justify your revert at Pwn. I fail to understand your justification, as you've added a mass of non-MOS HTML code to the article. Also, what problems was there with the content of the addition? Please leave me a message so we can understand each other's intentions. Thanks! --Shadow Puppet 21:06, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That was a mistake, sorry. I was reverting the change back to un-curled quotes and hadn't noticed your addition to the text. Rufous 15:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Justify again
Please, put a message when you remove a link, so we know why this link is bad for you. Boole

404 error tutorial link
That link is superfluous imho, and serves nothing but ad impressions for the site who have rehashed the apache docs anyway. -- Jon Dowland 09:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Yoshi's Island
Thank you, your re-write is great, it puts forth both positive and negative critical views and mentions the lack of commerical success. Hope you don't mind, I made some small edits to give proof that the information is true. 156.34.222.92 15:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

TRIVIA
Hi - WP:TRIVIA explains in detail why articles shouldn't have 'trivia' headers. Michael Dorosh Talk  20:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Gattling Gun and batteries
Our towed Vulcan used 2 Sears Die-Hard batteries mounted under the gunner's seat. we also had a 1.5kW generator and we could slave the gun to the prime mover (HMMWV) if we needed to. Hope that helps. L0b0t 00:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

About a revision
Sorry about missing that on the Pwn page. -Niarbeht 21:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Kwahoon
I've added the "prod" template to the article Kwahoon, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Kwahoon. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. Kathy A. 20:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Undo revision 102924745 by 74.106.221.56 (talk) -- this is an encyclopedia. Try to avoid "might"s)
What I added happened to be true. Should I restate it as a definate, seeing how the only occurance of the word 'might' was in the description of the edit? You tend to be a pretty useless mod if you don't actually read what an article says. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.106.221.56 (talk) 23:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

 * What you added was pure speculation and not a useful addition to the article. Rufous 23:41, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rufous


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User:Anilocra/to do

David Robertson|Bottom trawling|Pelagic trawling|Stazione Zoologica|Anton Dohrn Seamount|FRV Scotia|Grenadier (fish)|Redfish

title: User:Anilocra/to do


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Talk:Blackletter

General comments
I am coming to this, and related pages, in order to decipher some text. I have found this article to be almost unusable. For example, words like "England" and "Germany" are linked, presumably, to England and Germany yet words that one would not reasonably expect a reader of this article to know (bow, minum, etc.) are not defined or explained.

Therefore, this: -when a letter with a bow (in b, d, p, q, etc) is followed by another letter with a bow (such as "be" or "po"), the bows overlap and the letters are joined by a straight line (this is known as "biting"). - German Blackletter typefacesa related characteristic is the half r, the shape of r when attached to other letters with bows; only the bow and tail were written, connected to the bow of the previous letter. In other scripts, this only occurred in a ligature with the letter o. -similarly related is the form of the letter d when followed by a letter with a bow; its ascender is then curved to the left, like the uncial d. Otherwise the ascender is vertical. -the letters g, j, p, q, y, and the hook of h have descenders, but no other letters are written below the line. is virtually incomprehensible.

Visual examples of what is primarily a discussion of a visual subject are necessary. An "A to Z" illustration of the alphabets discussed would help a lot too.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Incitatus (talk • contribs).

Typeface merge
I've flagged both the Typeface and the Blackletter articles with merger tags because I think the Blackletter section of the Typeface article should be integrated into this one, the main Blackletter article. As you can see, the Typeface article only has short descriptions of each font family, linking to a main article if the topic warrants it (like Serif, Sans-serif, and Slab serif). I think the Blackletter section should do the same. However, I don't know very much on the topic and I can't decide how exactly it should be done. Vontafeijos 05:38, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I think that one should fairly careful here. Although the Blackletter font is based on the Blackletter script, they are produced in fundamentally different ways, and have different histories. I would prefer to see the Blackletter section broken into a new article, rather integrated with an article about a type of handwriting. Dsmdgold 04:18, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

 * You are, of course, correct in saying that Blackletter fonts and actual Blackletter handwriting are different. However, since the fonts are modeled on Blackletter handwriting, I think it would be better to put the font info in this article (probably at the end) so that comparisons can easily be drawn between the handwriting and the fonts. But again, I don't know enough about the subject to do it myself, otherwise I would. Vontafeijos 04:36, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that the article gothic script should be merged into this one. It's different names for the same script. The disambiguation page gothic suggest that there were a distinction between the handwriting script called gothic script and a typing script called blackletter, but it seems to me that this distinction is artificial (inexistent outside wikipedia). I believe that the lable blackletter is preferrable because it's less ambiguous: There's no danger of confusion with the gothic alphabet. Additionally, when the term gothic was chosen in the renaissance, it was intended as a despective name for an "outdated" and "ugly" script (in the eyes of a renaissancer). J. 'mach' wust 23:27, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article is now merged with Gothic script. See Gothic script for its verion history. J. 'mach' wust 11:31, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

''Blackletter evolved from Gothic indirectly speaking but is technically a by-product of Bastarda, which is to say that Quadrata and Textura are not technically blackletter. The problem is that you can't really understand what Bastrada is without knowing what the two gothic forms mentioned are, and likewise you can't understand what Blackletter is without bastrada. Thus while Typeface may imitate Blackletter, such imitations may be had without knowing the theory and without that theory they are a distracting influence on the topic of writing. Still my only reservation in that case is that just as much space be given to engravers and wood cutters who well through the 18th century were more refined and required a much higher skill and talent.

Reflectively typeset Gothic and Bastrada don't have any true compatibility or following, so that if Blackletter is confined to evolve back only to Bastrada typeface issues can possibly be address in this context. This would suggest trying to link Bastarda and Gothic!'' --MicPowell 03:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Visigothic minuscule
http://medievalwriting.50megs.com/scripts/history4.htm

 * We have Visigothic script for that. Adam Bishop 01:14, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Ballads
That article links here ("Broadsheet ballads (also known as broadside ballads or blackletter ballads)") but it is not obvious what the connection is? Broadsheet ballads were printed in a period generally later than that discussed in the English section of this article. Rmhermen 21:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Why is it called "blackletter"?
I think the article could be improved by answering the subject question in the opening para. I just skimmed the article and it's not answered anywhere I could find. I don't know the answer myself or I would consider fixing it. Contrast with Merovingian script which explains why it's called Merovingian right away. + +Lar: t/c 01:41, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

 * It's called that because it was moved to this title from "Gothic script" around this time last year (see J mach wust's comments above, which I disagreed with somewhere at the time, but oh well). Adam Bishop 03:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

'' In a later note on this same talk page, I have pointed out that the term Blackletter is a designation based on the consequences of balancing Quadrata and Textura elements to form the Bastarde. That is by the pen-lift method the terminals of these types of letters and the inclusion of hackles creats wells of ink around terminals and joins so that a light coloured ink will show disparate tones and tints, which are hidden by the use of thick black ink''.--68.175.107.66 00:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Gothic cursive
I'm looking for a gothic cursive typeface, one that would have been taught mid-20th century to schoolchildren, in Germany/Eastern Europe. My uncle tried to write it down for me, but couldn't remember many of the letters. It had three distinctions: 1) written with pencil on paper, so no nib, no ink. 2) its cursive, so the letters get joined together. 3) vaguely hints of American schoolhouse cursive, except that any loop in the American cursive typically turns into a sharp point. 4) some letters get pulled apart into pieces: e.g. lowercase a looks like a lowercase o followed by a short horizontal stroke followed by the downstroke (so that it looks like o followed by an undotted i) Similarly the lowercase g looks like a round o followed by a downstroke. I really want to see what the full alphabet looks like, upper and lower case. linas 18:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Are you thinking of Sütterlin? Adam Bishop 03:07, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

'I would check Dover Press especially sense the pages are Duty Free and so have no copyright issues. The specific script I believe you are looking for is called Der Kurrant, but the best Dover example is in a book on Ornamental Scripts and shows only two pages in copperplate. Other Dover Press books have the work of van der Veilde often in the relative context of Belgein Script and it should be noted that his work was engraved. Last you should also look at the English relatives which may be listed as Elizabethian Basterd Secretary,Secretary,or Law Hand, the latter two can even be seen in Bickham's, Universal Penman.' --68.175.107.66 01:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Till what time was the Blackletter mainly used in England?
When was the change to Antiqua? Der Barbar 19:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

''That depends on what you call Blackletter and mean by mainly. That is, the English styles that contributed to what we call Blackletter did not stop in their evolutionary tracks and in fact fathered the Elizabethian Bastard Secretary which at least in it's edge-penned form is a blackletter and may be argued so in it's copperplate modernizations, albeit questionably.

None the less Old English was elevated in it's formal status long after this period and so became important in compositions for titles, headings, salutations and other distinctions on a given composed page. This led to the so-called German Text which is an English styled Fractura, given heavy flourishes and meant to impress the Georges who were German born or raised. Note also the naive Square Text of the Constitution and Naive German Text of the Declaration of Independence not to mention degrees and certificates of today.

Technically the Basterd Secretary came into it's own in the late 1400s and the more Gothic like forms were used less and less as a text circa that period, the smaller hand being a most frugal use of space, time and paper.--MicPowell 02:20, 13 October 2007 (UTC)''

Correct spelling includes space (black letter, not blackletter)
A minor nit; I'm finding reputable dictionary definitions of this term spelled as "black letter," rather than "blackletter." (Check a physical Mirriam-Webster dictionary, also dictionary.com for differing definitions of both "blackletter" and "black letter.") Respectfully suggest doing a search/replace of this article.

''I empathize with your spelling issue but given Webster's Bastard English or American, I should hardly consider it the proper source for terms of foreign or at least pre-americana discription. At any rate Blackletter seems to me to be an unambiguous clarification. That is to say a black letter seems to me to be about a written page while blackletter is about a technique specific to writing not unlike woodcut, overbearing and so on!''--MicPowell 01:45, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Awkward terminology
Is there a reason why Textualis, Hybrida, & Cursiva are preferred to Textura, Bastarda and Corsiva?

''Textilius is a reference to textiles and the naive idea that modern Calligraphers and some Art Historians have used to surplant Textura based on the non-working belief that these gothic forms were more uniform in vertical structure. I would argue that vertical and uniform minimums don't quite impress me as woven or tile like. Textura is actually the idea that the terminals are "web" shaped. I have no knowledge of any serious work using the term Corsiva and dismiss it on that grounds, ie be consistant. Bastarde, Bastarda, and Bastard are the standard terms and technically do mean Hybrid but this Website is the first place I have heard of that tried to make some politically correct pretense of the issue. The ancient stigma was that a Bastard had gained insight, thus an ill gotten gain by being the product of broken traditions, save as war brides. At any rate research needs be consistant and knowing the term bastarde may prove a better sign post, whether we like it or not.'' --MicPowell 02:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Danish
IIRC, I've learnt somewhere that it was also used (more than the current script) for the Danish language until the early 20th century. If this is true, I think it should be mentioned in the above sentence. Can anybody confirm or disprove this? Wikipeditor 15:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Some Danish books still used it up to the beginning of the 20th century, but the main shift to antiqua occurred around 1850s, that was the period when the amount of books printed in antiqua superseded the Gothic letter books in number. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Old English script - is it distinct, does it exist?
The top of this article says:

Blackletter is not to be confused with Old English, despite the popular, and untrue, tradition that Blackletter was used to write that language. Old English pre-dates Blackletter by many centuries.

However, the Old English (disambiguation) page says:

Script/Typeface: Blackletter, a script/typeface which is often confused with, and misnamed as, Old English.

Which is correct? Or is there just no page on the wiki for Old English (script)?

Barry Kelly 15:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, the language Old English predates Gothic script, but the typeface Old English is constructed to look Gothic-y. There is no "Old English script" really, it's a modern typeface, not a medieval style of handwriting. Adam Bishop 21:39, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

''Pertting backwards during the time of the Universal Penman sent out to subscribers circa the 1740s and engraved by George Bickham, the designation was "Old English Print" and it should also be noted that engraving was more common than typeset for a varity of reasons. Old English proper is a name assigned post period and generally referred to the English style of writing the maximums and the unique 'a' minimum. Note such supra designations for the 'A' is considered in reverence to that letter being the first western ideograph, hence the African Uncial even shows this letter as being distinct.

Blackletter is simply a post Batarde catchall and the consequence of the batarde elements which with thinner or in light coloured inks would otherwise show ink wells at the treminals and joins. Thus the Fractura maximim is technically not a Blackletter because the fractured nature of the designs obviously do not join.

The Caroline was sighted in in many an Imperialist Era history books in much the same way George Washington Carver was the pre Civil Rights designate for Blacks in American History. That is, as a script it is of no real importance save the reference to Karl. What Alcum of York as a sudo-commissioner did was offer an Uncial form that was less antagonistic to post Roma. It does contain some serif like elements but aside from that it's heraldic notion of using Roman Rustica as titles and captions is more scholarly in the context of page composition.

The realization that the Uncial was in fact an African form is an argument that is too lengthy to evolve here, even if I have presented some supportives elsewhere, and I will avoid it at this time by merely noting the reluctance of the Anglos, Belgians and Germans to adapt popular romanesque forms in script for formal documents until nearly 1700.

The last serious critique here is on the Textura and its true meaning which has been compromised by naive Calligraphers and Art Historians who have equated the term Textilius in its place. Textilius would refer to a woven script but this is not a significant consideration in the context of the evolution of the Gothic Hands. Further the notion that some may perceive the text to be more vertical is insufficient reason to suggest textiles or weaving by any stretch of the imagination. Textura can be mistaken for a similar meaning but in the context of Gothic Hands it is a specific and clear reference to the "Web" shape terminals and joins.

Going back the importance of the Uncial is it's natural pen strokes forming the elements of a letter. Prior to the Gothic Period regional influences led to regional forms usually effecting joins, ligatures and terminals which in some cases even reflected language and speech patterns something like accent marks. The idea behind the Gothic movement is to return to controlled pen forms and thus the most critical issue is the terminals. Hence the question is how to begin and end the letter form in an unambiguous way.

For the Textura the answer was to mark the pen angle and quickly swell so as to create a blot of ink that could be pushed down the page forming the stem or main ache of the form while reverting back to natural pen pressure, then to terminate the stroke pressure was again increased and the mark finishes as a way of quickly lifting off the page and thus creating a smooth edged finish. The result is related to the hackle formed crescent shape blended into the letters elements.

In contrast is the Quadrata, where the marker is pulled evenly without any change in pressure, literally making a square or rectangle as a complete stroke in itself, save that the hand motion is an off-angle Z or N like motion. The stem thus becomes another stroke altogether and the terminal is adding a finishing rectangle or square.

The Quadrata came after the Textura and technically sense the three elements to a stroke can be lined and measured it should be a more uniform design geometrically but this doesn't quite work out beyond the theoretical novelty. Ergo the very inclusion of three distinct strokes requires alinement and the human effort to aline the elements despite the stylist view is compromising.

In either case the more important issue which these writing patterns brought to light is what I call the Dominii, Dominus factor. In other words because only the basic terminals had evolved, the letters i,m,n,u could be confused,and note i wasn't yet dotted. First experiments considered ideas with the feet cut off, vine cine pedibus, but the isssue was resolved with the Batarde which began to mix, interchange and double both quadrata and textura elements to evolve a clear blackletter although the Anglos had mad some redesigns already in progress.

Getting back to the Old English question the problem is that by the Gothic period several Hands had evolved in England and to fix one as Old English is at the evpense of others. '' --68.175.107.66 00:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

About the "Textualis lettering" image
This image does not include lowercase "e", but does include "$" (which clearly did not exist at that time) and a non-typographic quote mark (and it is not explained how quotations are typically handled in medieval books that use blackletter). Please recreate the image. -- Alexander Patrakov 12:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Antiqua, Blackletter, Gaelic and the Typography terms Template
There is some discussion going on at that the Talk page for that template regarding the classification of typefaces and the place of Gaelic in the paradigm. -- Evertype·✆ 17:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Nazis and Fraktur
Article says that the Nazis abandoned Fraktur but they actually banned it because they saw it as "Jewish". Quite ironic since people associate it with the Nazis today. See http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100921002006AAFQpP0 SpeakFree (talk) 17:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

long ess
We say that U+017F is the Fraktur long ess, but it's just the Roman long ess: ſ. Has a separate Fraktur letter not been encoded? — kwami (talk) 21:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is both. Fraktur as a stylistic variant of the Latin alphabet uses the same Unicode code points. The distinct Fraktur code points are for mathematical purposes only. Justastupidman (talk) 16:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Illegibility
At least the illegibility problem is mentioned. The displayed sample is a great example of that illegibility.

"Textualis ... characteristics ... are: minims, especially in the later period of the script, do not connect with each other. This makes it very difficult to distinguish i, u, m, and n. A 14th-century example of the difficulty minims produced is, mimi numinum niuium minimi munium nimium uini muniminum imminui uiui minimum uolunt ("the smallest mimes of the gods of snow do not wish at all in their life that the great duty of the defences of the wine be diminished"). In black letter this would look like a series of single strokes. Dotted i and the letter j developed because of this[citation needed]. Minims may also have finials of their own." (this article)

"Minims often have a connecting stroke which makes it clear that they form an m, n, etc.; however, in Gothic scripts, also known as textualis especially in late examples, minims do not connect to each other at all and it is nearly impossible to tell what letter is meant. A 14th century example of this is: mimi numinum niuium minimi munium nimium uini muniminum imminui uiui minimum uolunt ("the smallest mimes of the gods of snow do not wish at all in their life that the great duty of the defences of the wine be diminished"). In Gothic script this would look like a series of single strokes (this problem eventually led to a dotted i and a separate letter j[citation needed])." (minim article) --A876 (talk) 18:40, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I guess if you know what you're looking at, it's not all that illegible (in fact this picture looks perfectly clear to me). I suppose we should also mention that "mimi numinum niuium minimi munium nimium uini muniminum imminui uiui minimum uolunt" is a joke, an intentional construction that would look like a bunch of lines, since 14th century copyists were aware of this problem and did not lack a sense of humour. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:38, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Evolution from Carolingian Miniscule
I've added some citation needed tags to the section on the evolution from Carolingian minuscule. In particular we need citations that back up the claim that it was faster to write/required less effort than Carolingian minuscule (which to my eye at least looks like a more flowing script, so it is not at all clear why black letter would be faster to write). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.17.107.176 (talk) 11:13, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Origins section makes some absurd, uncited claims
"These books needed to be produced quickly to keep up with demand. Labor-intensive Carolingian, though legible, was unable to effectively keep up.[citation needed] Its large size consumed a lot of manuscript space in a time when writing materials were very costly. As early as the 11th century, different forms of Carolingian were already being used, and by the mid-12th century, a clearly distinguishable form, able to be written more quickly to meet the demand for new books,[citation needed] was being used in northeastern France and the Low Countries." Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but this statement honestly makes no sense to me. How on earth is Carolingian "labor-intensive"? In what way does it have a "large size" that "consumed a lot of manuscript space"? Due to the ongoing lack of citation (inline citation requests are almost 3 years old now and still haven't been fulfilled) I think these statements should be removed.

For one, Petrarch's La scrittura indicates that blackletter was considered labor-intensive compared to his preferred semi-gothic script. Most forms of blackletter obviously have much more stroke contrast and more intricate serifs than Carolingian minuscule. Blackletter is harder to write and harder to read, in my opinion. My understanding has been that gothic minuscule scripts were preferred for stylistic reasons.

It's true that some blackletter manuscripts were eventually written or set extremely densely, but 1) there's nothing about Carolingian that precludes doing the same, and 2) the extreme density didn't come until later. Earlier gothic scripts took up just as much space, if not more, yet still possessed most of the morphological features of later scripts like textualis quadrata.

So how could that have been the decisive force that promoted the development of blackletter scripts? Especially when the same cramping happened with roman type but didn't result in all the characteristic morphological features. Anyway, if anyone can find citations or can come up with an explanation justifying these statements, feel free to add them back.

Aminomancer (talk) 06:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Blackletter


text:
Rhossili

Rhossili (Rhosili; ) is both a small village and a community on the southwestern tip of the Gower Peninsula in Wales. It is within the first Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty in the United Kingdom. The village has a community council and is part of the Gower parliamentary constituency, and the Gower electoral ward. At the 2011 census, the population was 278. The community includes the hamlet of Middleton.

The name derives from the Welsh word rhos meaning a moor and the personal name Sulein, hence "Sulein's moorland promontory". Rhossili is a popular tourist destination: the views from the headland and the Down are panoramic; several pleasant walks begin, end, or pass through the village; Iron Age remains are found on Rhossili Down. The 2.8 mi wide sandy beach is backed with sand dunes and attracts surfers at the Llangennith end as well as along the entire stretch of beach.

Church
The present Norman church is dedicated to St Mary the Virgin. Inside there is a memorial to Edgar Evans, who was the first to perish on the Terra Nova Expedition with Captain Scott on the return from the South Pole.

Rhossili Bay
Rhossili Bay curves along an arc running northwards from the village. The 2.8 mi wide sandy beach is backed with sand dunes. Some locals refer to the beach as Llangennith Sands. Behind the beach just north of the village is Rhossili Down with the highest point on the Gower Peninsula, the Beacon (193 metres), and a number of prehistoric remains. It is between Rhossili Down and the beach that the Warren is found. In some of the fields on "The Vile" in Rhossili, the National Trust plant every year around 400,000 sunflowers. This is an extremely popular attraction for visitors to take selfies at during late July and early August, however there have been issues with some visitors picking the flowers.

At the southern end of the Bay is Worm's Head, consisting of two tidal islands: Outer Head 184 ft and Inner Head 154 ft. At the north is Burry Holms. These islands are accessible only at low tide.

Rhossili Bay featured in the Opening Ceremony of the London 2012 Olympic Games, a youth choir began a cappella performances of "Bread of Heaven" live on the beach which was broadcast at the Olympic Stadium. The bay has been used as the setting of New Earth in the sci-fi show Doctor Who and the bay including the Old Rectory was used in Torchwood: Miracle Day. In 2014, it was voted the UK's number one beach, third best in Europe, and 9th best in the world, by TripAdvisor users.

Fall Bay
Fall Bay is one of the most remote and hardest to reach beaches on Gower. The beach is never crowded due to its remoteness. There is no beach visible at high tide. The beach is very popular with surfers. At very low tide, it is possible to walk over from the beach to Mewslade Bay. The beach is reachable via a path which passes Rhossili village hall. It continues over fields and many stiles and has a steep final descent. The cliff path leads east to Mewslade Bay or westwards towards the Worm's Head and Rhossili Bay.

Notable residents

 * Edgar Evans, Antarctic explorer (a memorial tablet can be seen in the parish church)

National Trust
The National Trust owns and protects much land on the Gower Peninsula. The Trust operates a visitor centre in Rhossili near the Warren, Rhossili Down, Worm's Head, Rhossili beach and coastal cliffs. Scenes from Torchwood: Miracle Day were filmed at the National Trust's Old Rectory cottage in Rhossili Bay.

Skinny dipping
On 19 June 2011, almost four hundred people attempted to break the world record for the largest number of people skinny dipping at one time in the sea at Rhossili.

title: Rhossili


text:
Farkle

Farkle, or Farkel, is a dice game similar to or synonymous with 1000/5000/10000, Cosmic Wimpout, Greed, Hot Dice, Squelch, Zilch, or Zonk. Its origins as a folk game are unknown, but the game dates back to at least the mid-1980s. It has been marketed commercially since 1996 under the brand name Pocket Farkel by Legendary Games Inc. While the basic rules are well-established, there is a wide range of variation in both scoring and play.

Equipment

 * Dice (6, or 5 in some variations)
 * Paper and a pencil or pen for keeping score

Play
Farkle is played by two or more players, with each player in succession having a turn at throwing the dice. Each player's turn results in a score and the scores for each player accumulate to some winning total (usually 10,000).

 * At the beginning of each turn, the player throws all the dice at once.
 * After each throw, one or more scoring dice must be set aside (see sections on scoring below).
 * The player may then either end their turn and bank the score accumulated so far or continue to throw the remaining dice.
 * If the player has scored all six dice, they have "hot dice" and may continue their turn with a new throw of all six dice, adding to the score they have already accumulated. There is no limit to the number of "hot dice" a player may roll in one turn.
 * If none of the dice score in any given throw, the player has "farkled" and all points for that turn are lost.
 * At the end of the player's turn, the dice are handed to the next player in succession (usually in clockwise rotation, viewing the table from above), and they have their turn.

Once a player has achieved a winning point total, each other player has one last turn to score enough points to surpass that high-score.

Standard scoring
The following scores for single dice or combinations of dice are widely established, in that they are common to all or nearly all of the above-cited descriptions of farkle scoring.

For example, if a player throws, they could do any of the following:

 * score three 3s as 300 and then throw the remaining three dice
 * score the single 1 as 100 and then throw the remaining five dice
 * score the single 5 as 50 and then throw the remaining five dice
 * score three 3s, the single 1, and the single 5 for a total of 450 and then throw the remaining die
 * score three 3s, the single 1, and the single 5 for a total of 450 and stop, banking 450 points in that turn

This is not an exhaustive list of plays based on that throw, but it covers the most likely ones. If the player continues throwing, as in any of the above cases except the last, they risk farkling and thus losing all accumulated points. On the other hand, if they score five dice and have only one die to throw, they have a 1 in 3 chance of scoring a single 1 or a single 5, and then having scored all six dice they will have "hot dice" and can throw all six dice again to further increase their score.

Each scoring combination must be achieved in a single throw. For example, if a player has already set aside two individual 1s and then throws a third with the four dice remaining, they do not have a triplet of 1s for a score of 1000 but merely three individual 1s for a score of 300.

Scoring variations
Since farkle is a folk game, variant rules are used in different playing communities. While the standard rules described above are widely used, even they are not universal. For example, the commercially marketed game of Pocket Farkel differs in that three 1s are scored as 300 rather than 1000. In addition, some players score one or more combinations of dice beyond the standard ones. Those variations include the following.

Like the standard combinations, any of these variant combinations must be achieved in a single throw.
 * A roll with no scoring dice (e.g. 2–2–3–4–6–6) is scored as 500.
 * Three pair (e.g., 1–1–4–4–6–6) is scored as 500, 600, 750, 1000, or 1500.
 * A straight (1–2–3–4–5–6) is scored as 1000, 1200, 1500, or 2500.
 * A full house (three-of-a-kind and a pair) is scored as the three-of-a-kind value plus 250. e.g. 3–3–3–2–2 = 550, 4–4–4–3–3 = 650, 5–5–5–1–1 = 750, 1–1–1–3–3 = 1250
 * Four, five, and six of a kind are scored in one of 3 ways: adding, doubling, or set value:
 * Adding, for each additional matching die above 3 of a kind, the 3 of a kind score is added. e.g. 3–3–3 = 300, 3–3–3–3 = 300 + 300 (600), 3–3–3–3–3 = 300 + 300 + 300 (900) and 3–3–3–3–3–3 = 300 + 300 + 300 + 300 (1200).
 * Doubling, for each additional matching die above 3, 4, or 5 of a kind the score is doubled. e.g. 3–3–3 = 300, 3–3–3–3 = 300 × 2 (600), 3–3–3–3–3 = 300 × 2 × 2 (1200) and 3–3–3–3–3–3 = 300 × 2 × 2 × 2 (2400)
 * Set value, 4 of a kind is scored as 1000 or 2000, 5 of a kind is scored as 2000 or 4000 and 6 of a kind is scored as 3000, 6000 or 10000

These are the variations listed in the above-cited descriptions of farkle scoring, but further variations presumably exist. Since it is a folk game, players are free to agree upon whatever scores they choose for whatever combinations they choose to recognize.

Play variations
Some farkle rules also incorporate one or more of the following variations in the sequence of play.

 * Players may be required to achieve a certain threshold score in their opening turn or turns before they can begin scoring. Thresholds of 350, 400, 500, or 1000 are used. At the beginning of a game, each player must continue throwing in their turn until they either farkle or reach the threshold. After having reached the threshold once, they are free to stop throwing in subsequent turns whenever they choose.
 * Play is almost always to 10,000, but can be to 20,000.
 * In a variant described as "piggybacking" or "high-stakes", each player after the first can choose to begin their turn either with a fresh set of six dice, or by throwing the dice remaining after the previous player has completed their turn. For example, if a player banks three 1s for a score of 1000, the next player may choose to roll the remaining three dice. If they score at least one die, they score 1000 plus whatever additional score they accumulate. Players may thus assume the greater risk of farkling for the chance of scoring the points already accumulated by the player before them. If a player ends their turn on a "hot dice", the next player may "piggyback" using all six dice.
 * Players may be required to make at least one additional throw when they have hot dice, even if they have accumulated a high enough score that they would choose not to risk farkling.
 * Three farkles in a row can result in a deduction of 500 or 1000 points from the player's score.
 * Another variation is using five dice instead of six. In this version, players cannot score three pair, and this variation often couples an "instant" win option, where on the first roll of the five dice on any turn, if the player rolls five of a kind, that player instantly wins the game, regardless of the scores to that point.
 * An end-of-game variation described as "welfare" requires the winner to score exactly 10,000 points. If a player scores more than 10,000 points, then all points scored in that turn are given to the player with the lowest score.

Probabilities
Following are the probabilities of scoring combinations in the initial throw of six dice.

For the most part, less probable combinations are scored higher than more probable combinations (see Scoring Variations).

Following are the probabilities of scoring combinations in subsequent throws of the dice.

Following are the probabilities of farkling if all variant scoring combinations are allowed, depending on the number of dice thrown.

Three-pair is the only scoring variation that alters the likelihood of farkling, and only on the initial throw of six dice. If three pairs are not scored, the probability of farkling on the initial throw increases to 1 in 32.4 (5 in 162).

Following are the probabilities of making hot dice in a single throw if all variant scoring combinations are allowed, depending on the number of dice thrown.

If no variant scoring combinations are allowed, the probabilities of making hot dice are decreased only slightly for 4–6 dice thrown, and unchanged for 1–3 dice thrown. Odds for these and other die combinations with explanations and simulation results can be found elsewhere.

Effects of scoring variations
Scoring additional combinations such as straights and three pairs increases the speed of play by awarding high scores for low probability events that otherwise would score little or nothing (for example, a straight with standard scoring is worth only 150 for the single 1 and single 5). To assess the impact of scoring variations, the following table shows the average score on the initial throw of six dice, assuming that all scoring dice are banked and ignoring any additional scores that would be made on a re-roll of hot dice. The first row shows the average score with standard scoring, and the other rows show the increment in that average for each scoring variant that is used in play.

The numbers in the table are calculated based on the following scores for variant combinations:
 * Four-of-a-kind scores three times the score of the corresponding triplet.
 * Five-of-a-kind scores five times the score of the corresponding triplet.
 * Six-of-a-kind scores ten times the score of the corresponding triplet.
 * A straight scores 2500.
 * Three pair scores 1500.

The impact of four or five of a kind is substantially similar if they are scored as 1000 and 2000, respectively. If lower scores are awarded for straights or three pairs, the impact on average scoring will be proportionately lower.

The above table somewhat overstates the impact of straight and three pairs on the overall speed of play, as they only score on the initial throw of six dice.

Video game version
A video game version of Farkle was announced as one of the six games included with the Intellivision Amico console.

Another video game implementation of Farkle can also be found in the popular RPG Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Related games

 * Kismet (dice game)
 * Yahtzee

title: Farkle


text:
List of auxiliary Interstate Highways

Auxiliary Interstate Highways (also called three-digit Interstate Highways) are a subset of highways within the United States' Interstate Highway System. The 323 auxiliary routes generally fall into three types: spur routes, which connect to or intersect the parent route at one end; bypasses, which connect to the parent route at both ends; and beltways, which form a circle that intersects the parent route at two locations. Some routes connect to the parent route at one end but to another route at the other end; some states treat these as spurs while others treat them as bypasses. Like the primary Interstate Highways, auxiliary highways meet Interstate Highway standards (with rare exceptions).

The shorter auxiliary routes branch from primary routes; their numbers are based on the parent route's number. All of the supplement routes for Interstate 95 (I-95) are designated with a three-digit number ending in "95": I-x95. With some exceptions, spur routes are numbered with an odd hundreds digit (such as I-395), while bypasses and beltways are numbered with an even hundreds digit (such as I-695). Because longer Interstates may have many such supplemental routes, the numbers can repeat from state to state along their route, but they will not repeat within a state.

There are three states that have no auxiliary Interstate Highways: Alaska, Arizona, and New Mexico. North Dakota has an auxiliary route, but it is unsigned, and Wyoming's does not meet Interstate Highway standards.

Terminology and guidelines
Auxiliary Interstates are divided into three types: spur, loop, and bypass routes.

The first digit of the three digits usually signifies whether a route is a bypass, spur, or beltway. The last two digits are derived from the main Interstate Highway. For instance, I-515 contains an odd number in the first digit (5), which indicates that this freeway is a spur. The last two digits signify the highway's origin. In this case, the "15" in I-515 shows that it is a supplement to I-15.

Exceptions to the standard numbering guidelines exist for a number of reasons. In some cases, original routes were changed, extended, or abandoned, leaving discrepancies in the system. In other cases, it may not be possible to use the proper number because the limited set of available numbers has been exhausted, causing a "non-standard" number to be used.

Spur route
A spur route's number usually has an odd number for its first digit. It is usually one of the following:
 * It may serve another section of a city or metropolitan area not served by the main freeway (most often the central business district), terminating at a regular city street/avenue or at a substandard freeway, such as I-185 in Columbus, Georgia.
 * It may represent the first portion of a contemplated extended freeway, one that downgrades to below Interstate standards with plans to upgrade it later on. An example is I-369 in Texas, which currently does not connect with parent route I-69.
 * It may connect two unrelated Interstate highways—as I-390 in New York State and I-355 in Illinois do.
 * States differ on their interpretation of the numbering convention in this case. In the I-390 example above, the route has both ends at Interstates, but not at the same Interstate on both ends, and is assigned an odd first digit. Another example is I-275 in Tennessee; it is a connector between I-40 and I-75 (a similar case of having both ends at Interstates but not at the same Interstate) and is assigned an even first digit.
 * This may even vary within the same state. For example, in Michigan, both I-196 and I-696 intersect I-96 at one end and I-94 at the other end.

Examples include:
 * I-110 in California links I-10 with the Port of Los Angeles. This freeway was built before Interstate Highways as the Harbor Freeway. Later, it was adopted into the Interstate Highway System.
 * I-180 in North-Central Pennsylvania connects Williamsport and Lycoming County with I-80 in Milton, which does not actually enter Lycoming County. I-180 also serves as a connection to those traveling to New York and I-86 via U.S. Route 15 and the Future I-99 Corridor at its western terminus.
 * I-190 in New York connects the cities of Niagara Falls and Buffalo with I-90.

Sometimes, a three-digit Interstate Highway branches off from another three-digit Interstate Highway. These spurs do not connect directly with their parent highways, but are associated with them via the three-digit highways they do intersect with.

Examples include:
 * I-380 in Northern California is located at the San Francisco Bay Area. This highway begins at I-280, and it connects with US 101 and San Francisco International Airport.
 * I-190 in Massachusetts branches off from I-290 near Worcester.
 * I-795 in Baltimore County, Maryland branches off from I-695.

Bypass
A bypass route may traverse around a city, or may run through it with the mainline bypassing. In a typical 3-digit Interstate Highway, bypasses usually have both its two termini junctioned with another Interstate highway. Bypass routes are preceded by an even number in the first digit.

Examples include:
 * I-220 in Louisiana serves as a bypass of downtown Shreveport.
 * I-440 forms a loop around the south side of Nashville.
 * I-890 travels through downtown Schenectady, which I-90 avoids.

In the case of an auxiliary Interstate highway which has both ends at Interstates but not the same Interstate, some states treat these as bypasses while others treat these as spurs—see Spur route above.

Beltway
A beltway (also known as a loop route) completely surrounds a metropolitan city, and it is often connected with multiple junctions to other routes. Unlike other auxiliary Interstate Highways (and by extension, all primary Interstate Highways), beltways do not have termini; however, they have a place where the highway mileage resets to zero. Beltways are also preceded by an even number in the first digit.

Some examples of beltways include:
 * I-275 in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana encircles the city of Cincinnati.
 * I-465 in Indiana encircles the city of Indianapolis.
 * I-495 in Maryland and Virginia encircles the city of Washington, D.C., and is referred to as "The Capital Beltway".

Auxiliary Interstates

 * Note: this table sorts the route numbers by parent highway.

title: List of auxiliary Interstate Highways


text: User talk:24.45.233.85

title: User talk:24.45.233.85


text:
Talk:Autism Awareness Campaign UK

Untitled
It's a fairly mild case of pov, but it needs some sort of change to make it more encyclopaedic.

WTF?
I have reinstated the POV as the original changes were made to remove inappropriate biographical references to the Coreas (as they have their own entry). This article has strayed back towards POV territory and is in danger of soapboxing! Ed 08/09/05
 * Is it satisfactory now? Computerjoe 's talk 16:23, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks better to me - I've given it a copyedit as well. Thanks! Just another star in the night T 16:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge with Autism rights movement?

 * FAVOR--FRS 20:38, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * OPPOSE Although the Autism awareness movement and Autism rights movement are both autism movements they consist of different people and have very different goals and opinions. Q0 05:07, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * oppose: per Q0 above.  Ombudsman 09:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * OPPOSE: As Q0. I'm also (still) unconvinced of the significance/legitimacy of this organisation. Merging increases its credibility. JamJar 09:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * OPPOSE: Bit late to respond but 2 points: The autism rights movement article should be about the movement in general, and secondly they are not actually neurodiversity advocates as seen on their site. Their site reads rather like "just another parent's group" in fact.GarethNelson (talk) 15:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Uncited removed

 * The following uncited info was removed: Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 13:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The song Open Every Door was co-written in July 2007 with Autistic artist and composer Rozagy, who wrote and produced the music to the existing lyrics by Nimal Mendis. That version co-written by Rozagy that was called 'beautiful and moving' by professor Simon Baron-Cohen was presented to Gordon Brown and many MPs and influential people and was available for download on Nimal Mendis website and became very popular with people from all over the world. Rozagy declared that she wanted to give her half of the song's proceeds to Autism research charity in Cambridge.

The moving melody touched many people and even Ivan Corea said that hearing this version of the song 'made him cry'. The Rozagy/Mendis song was played at the House of Commons during the EDM on the 21st of Febuary however it was only mentioned that Rozagy 'sang' it, not co-written and produced it. When Rozagy requested that her contribution to the song was publically acknowledged, she was stonewalled by Autism awareness campaign, her song deleted from download page and all communication severed. The research autism charity in Cambridge did not receive a penny.

The singer from Sri Lanca, a friend of both Ivan Corea and Nimal Mendis, Gresha Schuilling was asked to record the old version of Open Every Door which is what was released on World Autism Awareness Day. She does not have Autism.

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title: Talk:Autism Awareness Campaign UK


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User talk:Hyperkid6000

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

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Good luck!

Meelar (talk) 23:30, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hyperkid6000


text:
User talk:Tomhab/JanFeb05

Talk page additions from January-Feburary 20005

User Martin2000
Hi Tom,

Should welcome you to the wiki, seeing as how it's your first day! However, since I've seen you on Baha'i pages I thought I should make you aware of this:

This user appears to be an identity created on 14th Jan whose only reason for being is to upload Baha'u'llah's picture and add it to Baha'i Faith and the one on Baha'u'llah. here is his entire list of contributions to Wikipedia.

You might want to keep an eye on these articles now I've posted this to the comment pages there. PaulHammond 21:31, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Errrm, I've been mucking around on wikipedia for a couple of weeks, but only made my page today. I think its quite easy to tell who's out to attack the faith and who isn't (Amir seems to enjoy it). Its just important to make sure you challenge them in a way that can't be argued with. -- Tomhab 21:48, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Tomhab, I don't think it's wise to disrespect other people, especially Muhammad, in making our points.   We have to make our arguments based on our own facts.  We can, however, use how other things in Wikipedia have been dealth with.  If you look at the Islam talk page, you can see how things are done with a great civility. -- Jeff3000 23:35, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah... sorry didn't think I'd rise to it so easily. -- Tomhab

 * I would try adding something to your last statement in the Baha'i Faith article about Muhammad to ease the war. -- Jeff3000 23:44, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Done - my mother would be proud of you keeping me in shape. -- Tomhab 23:50, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Belated welcome
Damn! And I so wanted to put this in, to see how it expands:

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
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And while you're at it, you should still look at Don't bite the newcomers, Neutrality says it's one of his favourite semi-policies (or is it a policy).

All the best, from another relative newbie,

PaulHammond 02:48, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

Baha'i attacks
Hey Tom,

I think you just joined at a bad time. Look back through the archived discussions. There was a lot of action there while Rick Boatright and others were discussing the presence or absense of links to articles on CB groups, like the Orthodox Baha'is, several of whom are active in Cyberspace. Rick (a moderator at soc.religion.bahai, I believe) was attempting to accomodate the Orthodox right to have a link from the article against overzealous editing from other Baha'is. Then, there was some activity involved in the process of getting the article up to standard for featured article status.

I came over here because someone on talk.religion.bahai put in a link to the article on Wiki. I read it, thought it was a solid article, explored Wikipedia and became a Wikiholic that very day. As a veteran of flame wars on trb, I really wanted to steer clear of Baha'i arguments here - most of my editing has been on Doctor Who articles (see The Tenth Planet, I wrote that!), a little bit on Frasier and the Simpsons, and whatever random areas I happened to come across.

Amir and Martin2000 both joined on Janurary 14th, and they clearly have issues with the Baha'is for some reason, though unlike Martin, Amir has edited other articles (one or two on Iran, I saw) and has gotten into a nasty row with another user in the couple of weeks he's been here (see User talk:Amir1)

Ironically, the only reason why I came back to the Baha'i article is because someone fixed comments that an anon vandal made on my talk pages, and the other victims of his vandalism were the Minor Bahá'í divisions article and Rick Boatright. Now Amir and Martin are stuck with me! - PaulHammond 16:35, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Tom, thanks for the note! Refdoc 01:13, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 *  I don't mind people adding facts to pages  you better not!!! :-) Refdoc 01:23, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey Tom, thanks for the msg. Yeah I noticed that the "Most great branch" and the "Most mighty branch" got mixed up.  I'll check my source and post again to try to clear that up.  In particular if your source doesn't name them both, it's probably wrong, just my opinion.  Abdul tended to re-interpret a LOT of stuff  Just wait....

Wjhonson 06:19, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi Tom,

Yeah - if someone edits your talk page then you get a "new messages" note when you sign in, so you know to go look there.

As to Martin and Amir's attacks, you are right, they are not interested in compromise - but there *are* procedures for dealing with people who don't play nice - someone already put up at request for comment on the Baha'i Faith article. Look into pages like Dispute resolution for the kind of things that can be done. You can RfC individual posters whose behaviour is disruptive, and eventually Request an arbitration on them also if no other resolution can be found. I've just seen that process come to a conclusion on an edit conflict at the Charles Darwin article. But, the first step is always supposed to be attempting to work with people on the talk pages. Most people here who want to make useful contributions are reasonable souls. The conflict resolution guidelines are just for the disruptive minority.

Hey, at least you're getting to learn more about your faith - how long have you been a Baha'i, btw? PaulHammond 15:56, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Tom: the passport photograph would have been taken shortly after Baha'u'llah's December 1852 release from the Siyah-Chal dungeon and before the start of His exile on 12 January 1853. Adib Taherzadeh, in The Covenant of Baha'u'llah, writes "...His neck badly injured and His back bent by the weight of heavy chains..." which would contribute to why Baha'u'llah appears as He does in the photo. I am minded that it is probably best to let the dispute about the photo come to a resolution before offering this information. What do you think? I am asking Rick Boatright, Paul Hammond and Gini too. --Occamy 07:39, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Paul's Baha'i break
Hi Tom,

Pleased to see you're still around. I've just put a note on my user page to the effect that I'm taking a couple of weeks wikibreak from editing the Baha'i articles - I found myself on the verge of shouting at Refdoc yesterday, and I don't think that's a good sign. If you need my support for any RfC's on users or issues to do with those pages, drop me a line. Otherwise, I should be taking an active interest in those pages again around mid-March, after I've settled in to my new job and home. PaulHammond 14:30, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Tom.

 * No, I did mean Refdoc. I had already gotten annoyed with him lecturing me at the Baha'u'llah talk pages before I moved over to see that Brettz had reverted me without comment and restored his own spelling error of 30th(ish) Janurary.  Really, I hadn't been keeping that much of an eye on the Abdu'l Baha article, which is why it took me more than a week to see Brettz's first revert of my edits there.  Brettz is annoying, but nowhere near so much as Amir, and I figure is someone who I could talk to if I had the energy - it is a bit rich to have someone treating my edits as if I was some kind of Azali troublemaker in one place, while I am doing my level best to prevent Amir's vandalism at the main Baha'i articles - but I figure I have enough Baha'i allies to explain my motivations to Brettz should I need them later.  No - the time I knew I should reconsider my involvement was when I found myself seriously considering dropping a note to Amir's talk page inviting him to try his hand at editing the Abdu'l Baha article, to see how Brettz felt dealing with him instead of me.  See you around, I hope.  - PaulHammond 15:28, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

I've made the changes I thought were appropriate. Brettz9 02:27, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

vs amir
Tom, Amir is pretty typical of the people we get in SRB. If you want to see intransigent, you could read the last 500 posts or so from SRB's resident Moroccan Moslem. :-(  Amir's not that bad acually, but he's been aculturated severely to think that Baha'is are liers, cheats, and conspirators, as were the Babi's before them.  Like Jews to Germany, Baha'is are the ultimate source of anything bad that happens to iranian culture. It's all a horrible Baha'i conspiracy, and we're a part of it.  It would be funny if it weren't so sad.  Eventually, I get mad, and I splatter blood everywhere.  I _hate_ editing this sort of crap, but I've been doing it for TWENTY YEARS on SRB.

Hey, Tom? Interested in becoming a moderator of Soc.religion.bahai? I have a spiffy brown shirt, some jackboots, and a pair of johdpurs that just might fit. :-)

Thanks for all your work on the Baha'i pages. It's hard, but valuable. Rick Boatright 18:22, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I remember being that 18 year old know-it-all kid. :-) I was handed my head on a platter more than once. Fortunately, that was BEFORE usenet, and there are no archives of my embarassement.

Still, we can always use a steady hand in SRB. Rick Boatright 18:44, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"Gawhar was pregnant" section
NPOV sates that if we can find a source for the claim then we report that that source claims that. If not it can be removed (no original reseach). And don't worry about me getting worn out by Amir1. Compared to some of my oponents in previous edit conflicts he is pretty minorGeni 20:45, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * The quoteing yourself problem is one we have encountered in the past. It is covered under the no original reseach rulesGeni 20:51, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Paul's move
I'm on my break at work now - started last week, moving this weekend - so in a little while I might get settled at my new place and be able to see what's been going on here in the meantime. Noticed your comment on Martin on the Baha'i page today. PaulHammond 14:05, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * Dropped a few comments on your summary at my talk page, if you're interested. btw - whereabouts in the UK are you?  (email reply probably best) - if you're anywhere near where I'm moving too maybe we can meet up sometime?  PaulHammond

title: User talk:Tomhab/JanFeb05


text:
Posse Comitatus (organization)

The Posse Comitatus (Latin, "force of the county") is a loosely organized American far-right extremist social movement which began in the late 1960s. Its members spread a conspiracy-minded, anti-government, and anti-Semitic message linked to white supremacy aiming to counter what they believe is an attack on their social and political rights as white Christians.

Many Posse members practiced survivalism and played a role in the formation of armed citizens' militias in the 1990s. The Posse Comitatus pioneered the use of false liens and other types of "paper terrorism" to harass their opponents by mounting frivolous legal actions against them. As the Posse Comitatus began their decline in popularity at the turn of the 21st century, their tactics and ideology evolved into those of the Christian Patriot movement and the sovereign citizen movement.

Historical background
Due to the strong ties that they forged with the white supremacist Christian Identity movement, members of the Posse Comitatus believe that they are the true Israelites, the people who were chosen by God. They state that the Jews seek to help Satan destroy civilization and undermine white citizens' rights through the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service.

Posse charters were first issued in Portland, Oregon in 1969 by Henry Lamont Beach, "a retired dry cleaner and a one-time member of the Silver Shirts, a Nazi-inspired and clerical fascist organization which was established in America after Hitler took power in Germany." One expert has considered William Potter Gale the founder of the movement.

Posse members believe that there is no legitimate form of government above that of the county level and no higher law authority than the county sheriff. If the sheriff refuses to carry out the will of the county's citizens: "he shall be removed by the Posse to the most populated intersection of streets in the township and at high noon be hung by the neck, the body remaining until sundown as an example to those who would subvert the law."

Christian Identity
Some Posse members embraced the anti-Semitic and white supremacist beliefs of Christian Identity. Some believe that the U.S. federal government is illegitimate and in the hands of a Zionist Occupation Government (ZOG), the supposed international Jewish conspiracy. Christian Posse Comitatus Newsletter has reported, "Our nation is now completely under the control of the International Invisible government of the World Jewry."

Federal taxes
Members of the Posse Comitatus frequently refuse to pay taxes, obtain driver's licenses, or comply with regulatory authorities. They deny the validity of United States fiat money because it is not backed by gold, which they claim the Constitution requires.

They draw up unusual legal documents and attempt to record them, they declare their independence from the United States, or they claim to file "common law" liens against their perceived enemies such as Internal Revenue Service employees or judges. They are frequently involved in various tax protests, and they have invoked ideas that have been popularized by tax protesters.

Criminal activities
The Posse Comitatus made national news when, on February 13, 1983, Posse member Gordon Kahl killed two federal marshals who had come to arrest him in North Dakota and became a fugitive. Another shootout ensued on June 3, 1983, in which Kahl and Lawrence County, Arkansas, Sheriff Gene Matthews were killed. Other members of the group have also been convicted of crimes ranging from tax evasion and counterfeiting to threatening the lives of IRS agents and judges.

On October 23, 1984, Posse member Arthur Kirk, 49, was killed in a raid on his home.

The organization also demonstrated support for its members over other issues. On September 2, 1975, Francis Earl Gillings, the founder of a San Joaquin County Posse group, led a group of armed Posse members to prevent United Farm Workers union organizers from attempting to organize non-union tomato pickers. As sheriff's deputies attempted to arrest Gillings on a traffic warrant, one got into a scuffle with Gillings, and a shot was fired.

On August 16, 2012, five suspects were arrested concerning the fatal shooting of two sheriff's deputies (Deputies Brandon Nielsen and Jeremy Triche) and wounding two others (Deputies Michael Scott Boyington and Jason Triche) in St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana. Terry Smith, 44; Brian Smith, 24; Derrick Smith, 22; Teniecha Bright, 21; and Kyle David Joekel, 28, were identified, with Brian Smith and Joekel (who was wounded by Deputy Charles "Chip" Wale) identified as the shooters in the incident. The men are rumored to be affiliated with a Posse Comitatus group. On August 17, 2012, two more suspects—Chanel Skains, 37, and Britney Keith, 23—were charged with accessory after the fact.

Christian Patriot movement
The direct ideological descendants of the Posse Comitatus movement were found in the "Christian Patriot" branch of the Patriot movement. Most Christian Patriot groups adhere to Christian Identity's white supremacist views and the Posse Comitatus' view that the American government had deprived citizens of their natural "common law" rights. They have notably espoused Gale's concept of "individual sovereignty", which developed into the broader sovereign citizen movement.

Sovereign citizens
The legal theories of Posse Comitatus have been further developed by the sovereign citizen movement, which claims that a U.S. citizen can become a "sovereign citizen" and thereby be subject only to common law or "constitutional law," not to statutory law (including most taxes). The Uniform Commercial Code plays a part in these legal theories. The term "sovereign citizen" began to supplant the name "Posse Comitatus" by the late 1990s, mirroring movement members' renewed focus on personal liberty.

Some within the movement see African Americans, who only gained legal citizenship after the Civil War and passage of the 14th Amendment, as "14th Amendment citizens" with fewer rights than whites. However, African American groups have adopted sovereign citizen ideology and developed a version of the movement's beliefs.

The sovereign citizen movement in turn gave rise to the "redemption movement," which claims that the U.S. government has enslaved its citizens by using them as collateral against the foreign debt. Redemption scheme promoters sell instructions explaining how citizens can "free" themselves by filing particular government forms in a particular order using particular wording. The movement "has earned its promoters untold profits, buried courts and other agencies under tons of worthless paper, and led to scores of arrests and convictions."

Sovereign citizen ideology eventually spread to Canada where it gave birth during the 2000s to a local offshoot known as the freeman on the land movement.

The United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) classifies some sovereign citizens ("extreme sovereign citizen extremists") as a domestic terrorist movement. In 2010 the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans were "hard-core sovereign believers" with another 200,000 "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges."

Alpine County, California
In the late 1970s, the Posse Comitatus attempted to take over Alpine County, California, by settling there and fielding candidates in local elections.

Alpine County is in the Sierra Nevada Mountains east of Stockton on the west and east slope of Ebbetts Pass on State Highway 4. The 2010 population is 1,175 people. The posse thought winning local elections in Alpine County was their best opportunity to take control of a single county. The group fielded a candidate for sheriff and registered fictitious voters using post office boxes and vacant lots as their addresses. Six people were prosecuted for voter fraud, the false registration thrown out, and the incumbent sheriff was re-elected.

Tigerton, Wisconsin
The posse had a presence in Tigerton, Wisconsin, until a crackdown by government prosecutors in the early 1980s left many of the group's leaders imprisoned.

title: Posse Comitatus (organization)