text:
Ryōmō Line

The Ryōmō Line (両毛線) is a Japanese railway line connecting Oyama in Tochigi Prefecture with Maebashi in Gunma Prefecture. 84.4 km long, the line is owned and operated by the East Japan Railway Company (JR East). The name refers to the fact that Gunma and Tochigi prefectures were once part of an ancient province called Keno (毛野), which was later split into Kōzuke (Gunma) and Shimotsuke (Tochigi). This line connects both halves of the old province.

Services
Most Ryōmō Line services continue beyond Shin-Maebashi and terminate at Takasaki on the Joetsu Line. Local trains run once an hour during the day between Oyama and Maebashi (more frequently between Maebashi and Takasaki). Some rapid services from Ueno and the Shōnan-Shinjuku Line have through-service to the Ryōmō Line, after which they stop at every station.

Prior to its discontinuation in 2021, Akagi limited express services, branded Swallow Akagi on weekdays, ran between Maebashi and Ueno or Shinjuku.

Present
Takasaki to Oyama
 * 211-3000 series 4- and 6-car EMUs (since August 2016)

Takasaki to Maebashi (Takasaki Line through services)
 * E231-1000 series
 * E233-3000 series (since 1 September 2012)

Ashikaga Ō-Fuji-Matsuri special services
 * 185 series (since 2005)
 * E257 series (since 2005)
 * 485 series (since 2006)

Former

 * 107 series (until October 2017)
 * 115-1000 series 4-car EMUs (until March 2018)
 * 185 series (Akagi limited express services until March 2016)
 * 651 series (Akagi limited express services until 12 March 2021 and Ashikaga Ō-Fuji-Matsuri special services)
 * E653 series (Ashikaga Ō-Fuji-Matsuri special services in 2013 and 2014)

History
The Oyama to Kiryu section was opened in 1888 by the Ryomo Railway, and extended to Shin-Maebashi the following year. The company merged with the Nippon Railway in 1897, and that company was nationalised in 1906.

title: Ryōmō Line


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Army of God Party

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. dbenbenn | talk 20:11, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Army of God Party
Entire text: "The Army of God Party is a U.S. Political party founded in 2001. It's sole purpose is to ensure that the laws of the land reflect those in the bible. Many Republicans are rumored to be closeted Army of God members, including President George W. Bush. Celebrity Members Mel Gibson The Rock James Van der Beek" Is there a political party of that name somewhere to redirect to? The only web hits are two references to Shiv Sena on a message board, which doesn't seem like nearly widespread enough usage for a redirect; we'd be popularizing an idiosyncratic translation. Samaritan 05:57, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, a top-secret political party. Seems a bit counter-productive. Delete. Lacrimosus 08:20, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, note the anon author (69.162.158.161) of that article removed VfD and has a past history of vandalism. Megan1967 08:21, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete likely hoax, certainly unverifiable. Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd 13:11, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. 'Army of God' is the name of a U.S. anti-abortion organization and web site that posts hit lists of abortion doctors and so forth. If they've launched a political party, I can see why members would keep it a secret—but there's just no evidence that that has happened. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 14:11, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Articles about top secret organizations that exist supposedly and that, somehow, someone could grab information misteriously about them without any refernce?? No, thanks. --Neigel von Teighen 14:16, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, political hoax, rant. Wyss 19:48, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Would be a pity to spoil the total secrecy that they've managed to maintain until now. --BM 02:43, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parlish

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. dbenbenn | talk 20:13, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Parlish
Neologism. A weird one too. O_o —Mar·ka·ci: 2005-02-8 05:58 Z
 * Delete, maybe even speedy. Same user also created the article Flagmore: President Flagmore was the 24.5 president in America. He founded the state Franchester, but died before the plans got through, he was in presidency for 5 days. He died from the Death disease.. -- Chris 73 Talk 06:02, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Not a neologism, a silly hoax. Delete it. Samaritan 06:08, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --nixie 06:24, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and BJAODN that was awesome. Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd 13:17, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete, silly vandalism. Wyss 19:47, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete, Silly but funny. Inter 21:06, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parlish


text:
Municipalities of Querétaro

Querétaro is a state in North Central Mexico, divided into 18 municipalities. According to the 2020 Mexican census, it is the twenty-first most populated state out of thirty-two with  inhabitants and the sixth smallest by land area spanning 11690.6 km2. The largest municipality by population is Querétaro, with 1,049,777 residents (44.32% of the state's total), while the smallest is San Joaquín with 8,359 residents. The largest municipality by land area is Cadereyta de Montes, with an area of 1347.40 km2, and the smallest is Corregidora with 234.9 km2. The newest municipalities are Ezequiel Montes, Pedro Escobedo and San Joaquín, established in 1941.

Municipalities in Querétaro are administratively autonomous of the state government according to the 115th article of the 1917 Constitution of Mexico. Every three years, citizens elect a municipal president (Spanish: presidente municipal) by a plurality voting system who heads a concurrently elected municipal council (ayuntamiento) responsible for providing all the public services for their constituents. The municipal council consists of a variable number of trustees and councillors (regidores y síndicos). Municipalities are responsible for public services (such as water and sewerage), street lighting, public safety, traffic, and the maintenance of public parks, gardens and cemeteries. They may also assist the state and federal governments in education, emergency fire and medical services, environmental protection and maintenance of monuments and historical landmarks. Since 1984, they have had the power to collect property taxes and user fees, although more funds are obtained from the state and federal governments than from their own income.

title: Municipalities of Querétaro


text:
Arnold von Lasaulx

Arnold Constantin Peter Franz von Lasaulx (14 June 1839 – 25 January 1886) was a German mineralogist and petrographer.

Life
He was born at Kastellaun near Coblenz, and educated at the University of Berlin, where he took his Ph.D. in 1868. In 1875, he became an associate professor of mineralogy at Breslau, and in 1880, a professor of mineralogy and geology at Bonn. He was distinguished for his researches on minerals and on crystallography, and he was one of the earlier workers on microscopic petrography. He described in 1878 the eruptive rocks of the district of Saar and Moselle.

In 1880 he edited "Der Aetna" from the manuscripts of Wolfgang Sartorius von Waltershausen, the results of observation made between the years 1834 and 1869. He was author of "Elemente der Petrographie" (1875), "Einführung in die Gesteinslehre" (1885), and "Précis de petrographie" (1887). He died at Bonn in January 1886.

Works

 *  Petrographische Studien an den vulkanischen Gesteinen der Auvergne (Stuttgart 1868–71); Petrographic studies on the volcanic rocks of the Auvergne.
 *  Das Erdbeben von Herzogenrath vom 22. Okt. 1873 (Bonn 1874); The earthquake of Herzogenrath on 22 October 1873.
 *  Das Erdbeben von Herzogenrath vom 24. Juni 1877 (Bonn 1878); The earthquake of Herzogenrath on 24 June 1877.
 *  Elemente der Petrographie (Bonn 1875); Elements of petrography.
 *  Über vulkanische Kraft (n. d. Engl. of Robert Mallet, das. 1875);
 *  Aus Irland, Reiseskizzen und Studien (Bonn 1877);
 *  Sizilien. Ein geographisches Charakterbild (Bonn 1879);
 *  Der Ätna, according to Wolfgang Sartorius von Waltershausen's manuscripts, edited and completed, (Leipzig 1880);
 *  Die Bausteine des Kölner Doms (Bonn 1882);
 *  Einführung in die Gesteinslehre (Berl. 1886);
 *  Irland und Sizilien (Berlin 1883)
 *  Wie das Siebengebirge entstand (1884).

title: Arnold von Lasaulx


text:
Lasaulx

Lasaulx is a surname, and may refer to:

 * Arnold Timothée de Lasaulx (1774–1863), Mayor of Moresnet
 * Arnold von Lasaulx (1839–1886), geologist
 * Ernst von Lasaulx (1805–1861), philologist

title: Lasaulx


text: User talk:68.34.211.197

title: User talk:68.34.211.197


text:
Talk:Mamdouh Habib

unsigned/undated early comment
Wow, this is a bit one-sided for a Wikipedia entry. I notice the use of the word "mercilessly" in the torture allegations. Really neutral language there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.59.50.53 (talk • contribs).

Problems with article
I agree that this article has neutrality problems, however I don't think that it is particularly dire. There needs to be a mention made of the 60 Minutes interview given on 13th Feb 2005. Also it needs to be mentioned that he has freely admitted that he was in Afghanistan but refused to say what he was doing there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gil-Galad (talk • contribs).

 * I do not think the neutrality is too bad, but mention needed to be made that the Government (Ruddock?, Downer?) has rejected Habib's allegations that an Australian official was present at interrogations and during some of his detainment in Pakistan. I have made a quick change to put the Government's rejection of this allegation, although have not added media references (see the Age, SMH) --Takver 05:55, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I disagree regarding neutrality. While much more emotion could have been put in to make it even worse, which they did not do, there is a huge amount of unsubstantiated material. This article paints the subject as an innocent and the US, Egypt, Australia, and others as bad guys. It says there is no evidence for the author's guilt, but then makes no case for it or provides no reference. The article is highly biased for the subject and needs to be heavily edited by an objective party. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.170.49 (talk) 12:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

mercilessly
An unnamed contributor snipped the word mercilessly, and the sentence about Habib's allegations being consistent with other allegations of Egyptian torture. They didn't explain why they made the edit. I know, from my reading, that his allegations are consistent. So I reverted their edit. I snipped the word "mercilessly". It is a trigger that makes people think this article is POV. -- Geo Swan 11:05, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't like that claim of consistency either. Says who? Some wikipedia editor's personal interpretation of the facts based on his own reading? Perhaps an expert would tell you they are actually not consistent because of some details joe blow wouldn't notice. While I'd bet the torture really did happen, use of original research to pound the point is not necessary. 69.226.148.228 01:21, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

"Habib's description of his transfer from Pakistan to Egypt is consistent with accounts from many other documented cases. " http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/what-should-we-believe/2006/01/13/1137118970093.html?page=fullpage Other sources, including Habib's US lawyer, have confirmed his allegations of torture in Egypt are consistent with other allegations. Umasfeet (talk) 22:20, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Family
The section describing an alleged abduction by Habib's son needs verification - a more suitable link, preferably back to the original article. Banno 19:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

 * A variety of blogs have have excerpts of the article:

"THE son of an Australian al-Qaeda suspect held at Guantanamo Bay was" 1-10 of about 56 "involved in the abduction of a woman who was bound with tape and had her head" 1-10 of about 56 "shaved, a Sydney court heard yesterday." 1-6 of about 53 "Ahmed Mandouh Habib, 18, of Birrong -- eldest son of terror suspect" 1-10 of about 59 "Mamdouh Habib -- was charged in connection to the alleged assault at" 1-10 of about 56 ... "The 18-year-old victim's twin brother, Islam Hassam, and a 15-year-old youth who" 1-10 of about 20 ... "The youth held the victim while Hassam wrapped masking tape around her mouth" 1-10 of about 59 ... "The youth and Hassam cut her waist-length hair to her neck, then shaved her" 1-9 of about 53 ... "The woman moved out of the family home last year after a domestic dispute." 1-10 of about 60 ... "Habib and Hassam were remanded on bail to Burwood Local Court" 1-7 of about 43

The original article has been archived, citing copyright reasons. But they still have the article title "Prisoner's son charged with kidnap". Ideally I'd like to quote the original article directly, but I've done the best I can. Andjam 01:31, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Blogs aren't a verifiable source. Unless someone can dig up a newspaper article better to leave it. - Synapse 04:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Supress torture allegations
Mamdouh attempted to supress the allegations his doctor made on the 7:30 report that he showed physical signs of torture, just hours before the show aired. The judgement came out against him and the content was allowed to be broadcast. The suppression order on the case was also lifted.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/supreme_ct/2005/79.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NatslovR (talk • contribs).

inadequately explained excision
Another wikipedian recently excised the entire "torture allegations" section from the article, with the edit summary Torture allegations - Deleted Biased/Unproven/Uncredible Section.

I was going to respond on their talk page, but I decided I would put my comment here, instead.

IMO your excision shows you edited from a biased POV.

Your edit summary asserts that section is "biased". IMO, If you are going to remove -- a whole section -- on the ground it is biased it is irresponsible of you to fail to offer an explanation of your justification for calling it biased on the talk page.

FWIW, are you sure you understand the NPOV policy? It says you and I, wikipedia editors, can't insert our own POVs in articles. But the policy does not say wikipedia editors cannot quote or cite conclusions from verifiable, authoritative sources, even if they contain a biased POV, provided they are properly referenced.

Your edit summary asserts that section is "unproven. Excuse me? Isn't the title of the section "Torture allegations". Did you really mean to claim that it is unproven that Habib made these allegations? That is ridiculous. Sources to his allegations were right in the section you excised.

Your edit summary asserts that section is "uncredible" [sic]. Oh? And what is your source for this conclusion? If you don't have a source, and you don't properly reference it, the NPOV policy proscribes your use of this conclusion in the article.

If you find a verifiable, authoritative source, which asserts that Habib's claims are incredible, what you can do is balance Habib's allegations with the information you quote or paraphrase from the source(s) you properly cite.

FWIW, if the site(s) you find that assert Habib's torture allegations are "uncredible" [sic] are right-wing blog-sites, like little green footballs, I think I can predict that other editors are likely to challenge your sources credibility.

Cheers! -- Geo Swan 14:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, since you believe that the sources were all verifiable and authoritative, here's something interesting I found at the bottom of one of the stories "Senior government figures have raised doubts about his story. Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer has said no evidence has been found to prove that torture has been used at the camp." Oh, don't worry, I have plenty of "right-wing blog-sites" and such.
 * Welcome to the jungle
 * Epsoul 23:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I've edited the article to remove a little of the bias. I'll overhaul it more in the future. Feel free to leave your impressions on my talk page.
 * Epsoul 05:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Epsoul, could you please provide an explanation for your large and largely unexplained edits to this article? -- Geo Swan 17:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * While the edit was fairly excessive, a large portion of that was not cited. For example, the quote "They outsource torture" wasn't in the one source cited, neither was his planning a hijacking. I intended to edit it later, but you beat me to it, and you included sources so I stopped editing for the most part. As for my deletion of the medical report, the relevant info was already mentioned, in the correct section (torture). I deleted the allegations that he was attacked by dogs (the article mentioned he was threatened), I don't recall why I deleted the allegation that he was nearly drowned, possibly because it was fairly excessive. On a different note, was Begg ever in Egypt?
 * Epsoul 23:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

NPOV, no references
the 1990's section has a POV tone. Furthermore, unsuitable statements are made:

"Mamdouh Habib is a known admirer and supporter of the sheik"

None of these statements have any references either.

Should I go ahead and edit it? (Truth 06 13:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC))

Enter the Sheiks name & Habibs name into Google you would see multiple entries- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4214747.stm & http://www.theage.com.au/news/War-on-Terror/Terrorist-Habib-free-to-go-home/2005/01/11/1105423487886.html & http://webdiary.com.au/cms/?q=node/1029 (Khanada 00:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC))

It is not an unsuitable statement because it shows why ASIO were interested in him, you seem to be biased towards him being innocent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Khanada (talk • contribs). (Khanada 05:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC))

 * Please leave your personal feelings out of this, you just revealed your true colours (Truth 06 14:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC))

We dont accept such immature comments as "you just revealed your true colors" on Wikipedia whatever that is meant to mean, please try and leave your personal feelings out of this and talk about the article, what exactly did I write that you perceived as "personal feelings"? (Khanada 00:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC))

 * Both of you, can you please talk about the article rather than each other? Thanks, Andjam 14:36, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

For the record I agree this article is biased(Khanada 05:46, 8 October 2006 (UTC))

NPOV, no references 2
The torture allegations section seem to contain hearsay & POV elements. I don't touch this article after seemingly being told I am biased, but perhaps someone could make it read more like an encyclopedia and less like a Socialist alliance home page.(Khanada 21:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC))

 * Could you please be a little more specific? Are there any problematic paragraphs or sentences in particular? Also, describing the allegations he's made shouldn't be seen as automatically agreeing with them. Thanks, Andjam 14:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Link to Dean Park
On the Dean Park article, Habib is remarked as being a notable former resident... this article only states that he lived in Sydney. Does anyone know where in Sydney he lived, and have a source which can be used on the Dean Park article if indeed he did live in Dean Park?

Thanks, Garrie 21:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Entrance into Australian Politics
I added this section; was quite surprised it wasn't there already. It could probably do with further expansion as well. --Tim 00:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The opening line isn't correct - Habib isn't a state politician. He has announced that he will run for a seat in the NSW legislature but he couldn't really be considered a politician. I won't change it, but suggest that someone with more wiki-cred does. -Phil S.

 * Of course. Woops. I've changed that now. --Tim 08:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Opening sentence
"Mamdouh Habib (Arabic: ممدوح حبيب) is an independent political candidate in New South Wales, Australia, and a Muslim accused of terrorist links by the US administration and their supporters. He was born in 1956 in Egypt, moved to Australia in 1980, became a citizen there, married Maha, had four children, and taught Islam." I am wondering whether the line "and a muslim accused of terrorist links" is misleading. He is a muslim and thats important. He was accused of terrorist links, thats true. But he wasnt accused because he was a muslim. And the line reads that way to me. Additionaly the "accudsed by the U.S. administration and its supporters" would be best to state his actual accusers. i.e Who actualy charged him. Any thoughts? Jampire1 06:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Replaced transcluded image with inline image - npov tag as per dispute on Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption
Replaced transcluded image with inline image - npov tag as per dispute on Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption. Geo Swan 15:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

BLP
This is a WP:BLP. And BLP says "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons—whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion, from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space." Which I is what I'll do next. Replacing unsourced material in this biography will result in a notice being entered at WP:BLPN. SmithBlue (talk) 05:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Four Corners 20/7/2004
The URL for the transcript of this program is http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2004/s1157599.htm

WP:CITE says inline cites are needed for BLP (biography of a living person).

<ref name="name"> ... </ref>

may help with multiple cites of the same source. Must go. Will be back. SmithBlue (talk) 06:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Evidence obtained "by torture"/"under duress"
Are there sources stating that the claims against Habib are unsafe as they include evidence obtained through torture etc. SmithBlue (talk) 04:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Could you please clarify this question? Could you clarify what you mean by "unsafe"? Are you asking whether there is reason to believe the claims aren't credible?

 * I placed sources in the article to a pair of senior doctors who agreed that his medical record confirmed his claims of abusive treatment. His medical record documented that he kept having blood in his urine -- a sign of severe beatings.

 * Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 09:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

removed dubious torture
I removed "forced to listen to Howard Stern and watch the movie Private Parts repeatedly" or similar from torture section. This was unsourced, unsubstantiated, and, I believe, a tedious attempt at humour. Umasfeet (talk) 22:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

"intended to sue NSW Police"
It appears that he actually DID sue someone in 2006 - he's currently in the Federal Court, suing the state for something - bit scant on details, but if you Google "NSD956/2006" it comes up. He was in the courtroom next to mine on the 15th Sep ;)

Mamdouh Habib's passport story
Maybe worth to add to the article if someone has the time IQinn (talk) 15:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

non-divulged evidence has "no value"?
"Evidence to support these claims has not been made public, thus they have little or no value.[5]"

This assertion above was the most blatant of the biased views on this subject, and I have removed it. It MAY be the case that there are ethical problems with the non-divulgence of evidence, but it is plain wrong to say that it has "little or no value". Many government decisions, especially in matters to do with intelligence and security are in camera, and it is manifestly clear why that should be the case. Eric155 (talk) 04:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

In this particular case, we now have available to us (against the wishes of the USA Govt) the content of spying/intelligence gathered on Habib and I see no reason we shouldn't put it here in wikipedia. There was evidence on Habib gathered by the USA Govt which was obtained by conventional spying on him, and we should report that. Mainperson (talk) 14:05, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Books, media, Egyptian witness support Habib's account
Years later, there is extensive documentation, including the Torture Memos, books such as the reporter Jane Mayer's The Dark Side about extraordinary rendition, the ghost prisoners and torture of detainees under US custody; as well as accounts by other former detainees, such as Murat Kurnaz, to support Habib's account,as does the 2010 testimony by an Egyptian officer. The section of this article - 1990s - seems an earlier attempt to show why his complaints should not be trusted. But it is difficult to know how to summarize it all now and achieve some balance.Parkwells (talk) 15:43, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

failure to reference wikileaks document
I am astounded at this article's failure to reference the wikileaks article at http://wikileaks.org/gitmo/pdf/as/us9as-000661dp.pdf ... hard to believe it contains nothing of relevance. Mainperson (talk) 01:01, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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title: Talk:Mamdouh Habib


text:
Josh Silver

Josh Silver (born November 14, 1962) is an American musician who is the former keyboardist, producer and backing vocalist of gothic metal band Type O Negative. He joined the band at frontman Peter Steele's request. He played for Type O Negative until they disbanded due to Steele's death in 2010.

Silver, who is Jewish,   was also a founding member of the short-lived rock group Fallout along with Steele. Fallout gave birth to Carnivore which ultimately led to Type O Negative. After the breakup of Fallout, Silver formed hard rock band Original Sin.

Silver was first introduced to professional recording and production upon meeting and working with producer and Soundscape Recording Studio owner Richard Termini. Fallout's earliest recordings trace back to the Termini Soundscape sessions from the late 1970s.

After the death of Type O Negative frontman Peter Steele, Silver became a certified EMT and then paramedic in New York, as stated by Silver, for over a year this had been his "plan B" to support his wife and children. Assuming at the time that the band was finished, Silver had begun EMT schooling during Steele's 2008 hiatus. He still holds his Paramedic position with the New York City Fire Department.

Fallout

 * Untitled 7" single (1981)

Type O Negative

 * Slow, Deep and Hard (1991)
 * The Origin of the Feces (1992)
 * Bloody Kisses (1993)
 * October Rust (1996)
 * World Coming Down (1999)
 * Life Is Killing Me (2003)
 * Dead Again (2007)

Guest appearances

 * Roadrunner United (2005) – Roads & Enemy of the State

Albums produced

 * Life of Agony – River Runs Red (1993)
 * Pist.On – Number One (1996)

title: Josh Silver


text:
User:Goldom/nonsense

Anything in italics are generally my comments. If something you wrote is on here and you want it off, let me know.

 Deleted nonsense

 Talk page fun

 Help Desk/Reference Desk wackiness

title: User:Goldom/nonsense


text:
Wikipedia:Deletion of useless stub templates and stub categories

Note: The last edit before this discussion was archived was 13 June 2005.

 * See Stub Templates for Deletion.

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text:
Scottsdale Airport

Scottsdale Airport is a municipal airport located 9 mi north of downtown Scottsdale, in Maricopa County, Arizona, United States. Most U.S. airports use the same three-letter location identifier for the FAA and IATA, but Scottsdale Airport is SDL to the FAA and SCF to the IATA (which assigned SDL to Midlanda Airport in Sundsvall, Sweden).

Federal Aviation Administration records say the airport had 4,798 passenger boardings (or enplanements) in calendar year 2005 and 266 enplanements in 2006. The FAA's National Plan of Integrated Airport Systems for 2007–2011 called Scottsdale a reliever airport.

It is one of the busiest single-runway general aviation airports in the nation with 186,514 operations in 2019. The airport offers clearance, ground and tower services from 1300Z to 0400Z (6 a.m. to 9 p.m. local time) daily.

U.S. Customs service is available daily from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. This allows visitors from all over the world to come to Scottsdale with proper visas.

Neighbors’ complaints about aircraft noise around the airport increased beginning in 2004, peaking in 2005 with over 15,000 complaints being logged. In 2019, complaints decreased significantly to 1,919 complaints. It is unlikely that the airport would close, due to federal grant assurances and its tremendous economic impact.

Scottsdale Airport is an important economic asset for Scottsdale and the region, contributing hundreds of millions of dollars in economic output. Aviation activity at the airport and in the surrounding airpark created $688 million in total economic benefits for the region in FY2019, with aviation activity supporting around 3,979 jobs. Economic benefits of $1.9 million are created daily.

Scottsdale airport is one of three airports that receive commercial airline flights in the Phoenix, Arizona, area, the others being Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport and Phoenix–Mesa Gateway Airport.

History
During World War II the airfield was used by the United States Army Air Forces Army Air Forces Training Command as "Thunderbird Field #2" on June 22, 1942, as a primary flight training school for aviation cadets. Since its inception, Thunderbird #2 graduated more than 5,500 students, three times the total contemplated by the AAF's original expansion program. Thunderbird #2 pilots flew nearly 26,500,000 miles, more than 3,000 times around the world at the equator. The school was deactivated on October 16, 1944.

While in operation, Thunderbird #2 underwent a transformation that took it from a small piece of isolated desert to a primary training school. This transformation is attributable to Air Force officers such as General Henry H. Arnold and Lieutenant General B.K. Yount (commander of the Army Air Forces Training Command, and the civilian contract school operated by Leland Hayward and John H. Connelly.

One of three of Southwest Airways' training schools in the Valley, Thunderbird #2's first class of cadets, arriving before the field was pronounced ready for occupancy, had to be trained at Thunderbird Field #1 in Glendale. Not until July 22, could all personnel, consisting then of 28 flight instructors, move to Scottsdale. Throughout World War II, Thunderbird #2 devoted its every facility to the training of more and more cadets. In November 1943, the peak was reached; 615 cadets who flew an average of two hours a day, making 1,845 separate takeoffs and landings. In a period of ten weeks, students received a total of 65 hours of flight training and 109 hours of ground school. In spite of the intensified training, the field gained a widespread reputation for thoroughness of instruction and high caliber graduates.

An increase in the number of students brought about a similar gain in the number of persons employed, until in January 1944, Thunderbird II's payroll boasted 508 employees, with a total monthly salary expenditure of $115,247. Gradually the tempo slowed as World War II came to an end. So well did civilian contractors complete their initial assignment, that by August 4, 1944, only 40 of the original 64 primary schools were still in operation. At the closing of Thunderbird #2, only 15 remained opened to complete the task of primary training.

After the war, Arizona State Teachers College (now Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona), acquired the airport in order to implement its own aviation program. Distance from the college campus and cost of operating an aviation program soon convinced the college to abandon its plans. By 1951, enrollment had decreased to such an extent that Arizona State decided to end its aviation program on June 15, 1951.

The Arizona Conference of Seventh-day Adventists bought the airport in 1953, and founded Thunderbird Academy. The President of the Arizona Conference influential in the purchase was George (G.H.) Rustad - President from 1950-1959. In 1966, the City of Scottsdale bought the airfield portion of the academy's property from the Seventh-day Adventist Church for $750,000. The funds was provided to the City by Landel Inc., a company that was planning on developing industrial sites around the airport. The City continues to own and operate the airport.

The airport briefly saw commercial airline service from mid-1989 through early 1990 by StatesWest Airlines, a commuter airline which provided turboprop flights to Orange County, California and Bullhead City, Arizona/Laughlin, Nevada.

On December 14, 2023, JSX announced they would move their Phoenix Sky Harbor operations to Scottsdale Airport from January 10, 2024 with service to Burbank, Denver–Rocky Mountain, Las Vegas. The airport forbids typical airline service operating under FAR Part 121 but JSX operates under Part 135.

Facilities
Scottsdale Airport covers 282 acre and has one asphalt runway (3/21), 8,249 x 100 ft (2,514 x 30 m).

In the year ending December 31, 2020, the airport had 202,564 aircraft operations, average 555 per day: 91% general aviation, 8% air taxi and <1% military. 356 aircraft were based at this airport: 167 single engine, 26 multi-engine, 137 jet and 26 helicopters. In 2019, the airport had 186,514 aircraft operations. There were more than 200,000 operations in 2020.

There are three main fixed-base operators located on the field, Jet Aviation Scottsdale (NEW), Signature Flight Support, and Ross Aviation (formerly Corporate Jets). The Scottsdale Fire Department maintains a facility next to the tower. Scottsdale Airport is also home to Civil Air Patrol Squadrons 314 and 310, assisting in field missions upon request.

Passenger
The following airlines operate regularly scheduled passenger flights at Scottsdale Airport:

title: Scottsdale Airport


text:
Eduard Lassen

Eduard Lassen (13 April 1830 – 15 January 1904) was a Belgian-Danish composer and conductor. Although of Danish birth, he spent most of his career working as the music director at the court in Weimar. A moderately prolific composer, Lassen produced music in a variety of genres including operas, symphonic works, piano works, lieder, and choral works among others. His most successful pieces were his fine vocal art songs for solo voice and piano which often used elements of German and Belgian folk music.

Biography
He was born in Copenhagen, but was taken as a child to Brussels to which his father was president of the Jewish Consistor of Belgium. He was educated at the Brussels Conservatory where he earned prizes for piano (1844) and composition (1847). He won the Prix de Rome in 1851, which provided him with the opportunity to make a long tour in Germany and Italy. While touring he met Louis Spohr and Franz Liszt and composed much of his first opera Le roi Edgard. After returning to Brussels in 1855, Lassen actively sought to get his opera performed but was unable to do so. Liszt, however, agreed to produce the opera at the Grossherzogliches Theater (now the Staatskapelle Weimar) and the work premiered in Weimar in 1857. The following year, Liszt recommended Lassen as his replacement as the court music director in Weimar, which involved conducting both the opera and the court orchestra. He happily took the job and remained in that role until his retirement in 1895. While there he conducted several world premieres including the first performance of Camille Saint-Saëns's Samson et Dalila in 1877. He also conducted the first performance in Weimar, and the first outside Munich, of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde (1874).

He remained in Weimar after his retirement and died there in 1904, shortly after receiving an honorary doctorate from the University of Jena.

Works
A moderately prolific composer, Lassen produced four operas, a significant amount of instrumental music to stage plays, two symphonies (in D major, performed 1867/published 1868 and C major, Op. 78, published 1884), a Violin Concerto in D major, Op.87 (1888), a festival march for symphony orchestra, two overtures, and 11 character pieces for piano. He also produced a significant amount of choral music, lieder, and art songs for voice and piano.

Lassen's operas, Landgraf Ludwig's Brautfahrt (1857), Frauenlob (1861), and Le Captif (1868), did not have lasting success, though his music to Goethe's Faust (1876) gained popularity and was praised by Franz Liszt. His incidental music to Hebbel's Die Nibelungen (1873) was also well known. In 1878–79, Liszt combined excerpts from both these works in a single piano transcription, Aus der Musik zu Hebbels Nibelungen und Goethes Faust (S.496).

Lassen's solo songs and duets show a variety of treatment from the folklike Sei nur ruhig, lieber Robin or the songs with dance rhythms to the through-composed Abendlandschaft (with its more interesting modulations and accompaniment) to the rhapsodic and improvisatory Ich hab im Traum geweinet. Many of his songs, for instance Vöglein wohin so schnell, were translated into both English and French and were popular at the end of the 19th century.

title: Eduard Lassen


text:
Menelaus's theorem

In Euclidean geometry, Menelaus's theorem, named for Menelaus of Alexandria, is a proposition about triangles in plane geometry. Suppose we have a triangle $△ABC$, and a transversal line that crosses $DEF$ at points $BC, AC, AB$ respectively, with $D, E, F$ distinct from $D, E, F$. A weak version of the theorem states that

$$\left|\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}}\right| \times \left|\frac{\overline{BD}}{\overline{DC}}\right| \times \left|\frac{\overline{CE}}{\overline{EA}}\right| = 1,$$

where "| |" denotes absolute value (i.e., all segment lengths are positive).

The theorem can be strengthened to a statement about signed lengths of segments, which provides some additional information about the relative order of collinear points. Here, the length $A, B, C$ is taken to be positive or negative according to whether $\overline{AB}$ is to the left or right of $A$ in some fixed orientation of the line; for example, $$\tfrac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}}$$ is defined as having positive value when $B$ is between $F$ and $A$ and negative otherwise. The signed version of Menelaus's theorem states

$$\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}} \times \frac{\overline{BD}}{\overline{DC}} \times \frac{\overline{CE}}{\overline{EA}} = - 1.$$

Equivalently,

$$\overline{AF} \times \overline{BD} \times \overline{CE} = - \overline{FB} \times \overline{DC} \times \overline{EA}.$$

Some authors organize the factors differently and obtain the seemingly different relation $$\frac{\overline{FA}}{\overline{FB}} \times \frac{\overline{DB}}{\overline{DC}} \times \frac{\overline{EC}}{\overline{EA}} = 1,$$ but as each of these factors is the negative of the corresponding factor above, the relation is seen to be the same.

The converse is also true: If points $B$ are chosen on $D, E, F$ respectively so that $$\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}} \times \frac{\overline{BD}}{\overline{DC}} \times \frac{\overline{CE}}{\overline{EA}} = -1,$$ then $BC, AC, AB$ are collinear. The converse is often included as part of the theorem. (Note that the converse of the weaker, unsigned statement is not necessarily true.)

The theorem is very similar to Ceva's theorem in that their equations differ only in sign. By re-writing each in terms of cross-ratios, the two theorems may be seen as projective duals.

A standard proof
First, the sign of the left-hand side will be negative since either all three of the ratios are negative, the case where the line $D, E, F$ misses the triangle (lower diagram), or one is negative and the other two are positive, the case where $DEF$ crosses two sides of the triangle. (See Pasch's axiom.)

To check the magnitude, construct perpendiculars from $DEF$ to the line $DEF$ and let their lengths be $A, B, C$ respectively. Then by similar triangles it follows that $$\left|\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}}\right| = \left|\frac{a}{b}\right|, \quad \left|\frac{\overline{BD}}{\overline{DC}}\right| = \left|\frac{b}{c}\right|, \quad \left|\frac{\overline{CE}}{\overline{EA}}\right| = \left|\frac{c}{a}\right|.$$

Therefore, $$\left|\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}}\right| \times \left|\frac{\overline{BD}}{\overline{DC}}\right| \times \left|\frac{\overline{CE}}{\overline{EA}}\right| = \left| \frac{a}{b} \times \frac{b}{c} \times \frac{c}{a} \right| = 1.$$

For a simpler, if less symmetrical way to check the magnitude, draw $DEF$ parallel to $a, b, c$ where $\overline{CK}$ meets $\overline{AB}$ at $DEF$. Then by similar triangles $$\left|\frac{\overline{BD}}{\overline{DC}}\right| = \left|\frac{\overline{BF}}{\overline{CK}}\right|, \quad \left|\frac{\overline{AE}}{\overline{EC}}\right| = \left|\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{CK}}\right|,$$ and the result follows by eliminating $\overline{CK}$ from these equations.

The converse follows as a corollary. Let $K$ be given on the lines $\overline{CK}$ so that the equation holds. Let $D, E, F$ be the point where $BC, AC, AB$ crosses $F'$. Then by the theorem, the equation also holds for $DE$. Comparing the two, $$\frac{\overline{AF}}{\overline{FB}} = \frac{\overline{AF'}}{\overline{F'B}}\ .$$ But at most one point can cut a segment in a given ratio so $△ABC$

A proof using homotheties
The following proof uses only notions of affine geometry, notably homotheties. Whether or not $AB$ are collinear, there are three homotheties with centers $D, E, F'$ that respectively send $D, E, F$ to $D, E, F$, $B$ to $C$, and $C$ to $A$. The composition of the three then is an element of the group of homothety-translations that fixes $A$, so it is a homothety with center $B$, possibly with ratio 1 (in which case it is the identity). This composition fixes the line $B$ if and only if $B$ is collinear with $DE$ (since the first two homotheties certainly fix $F$, and the third does so only if $D, E$ lies on $DE$). Therefore $F$ are collinear if and only if this composition is the identity, which means that the magnitude of the product of the three ratios is 1: $$\frac{\overrightarrow{DC}}{\overrightarrow{DB}} \times \frac{\overrightarrow{EA}}{\overrightarrow{EC}} \times \frac{\overrightarrow{FB}}{\overrightarrow{FA}} = 1,$$ which is equivalent to the given equation.

History
It is uncertain who actually discovered the theorem; however, the oldest extant exposition appears in Spherics by Menelaus. In this book, the plane version of the theorem is used as a lemma to prove a spherical version of the theorem.

In Almagest, Ptolemy applies the theorem on a number of problems in spherical astronomy. During the Islamic Golden Age, Muslim scholars devoted a number of works that engaged in the study of Menelaus's theorem, which they referred to as "the proposition on the secants" (shakl al-qatta'). The complete quadrilateral was called the "figure of secants" in their terminology. Al-Biruni's work, The Keys of Astronomy, lists a number of those works, which can be classified into studies as part of commentaries on Ptolemy's Almagest as in the works of al-Nayrizi and al-Khazin where each demonstrated particular cases of Menelaus's theorem that led to the sine rule, or works composed as independent treatises such as:

 * The "Treatise on the Figure of Secants" (Risala fi shakl al-qatta') by Thabit ibn Qurra.
 * Husam al-Din al-Salar's Removing the Veil from the Mysteries of the Figure of Secants (Kashf al-qina' 'an asrar al-shakl al-qatta'), also known as "The Book on the Figure of Secants" (Kitab al-shakl al-qatta') or in Europe as The Treatise on the Complete Quadrilateral. The lost treatise was referred to by Sharaf al-Din al-Tusi and Nasir al-Din al-Tusi.
 * Work by al-Sijzi.
 * Tahdhib by Abu Nasr ibn Iraq.
 * Roshdi Rashed and Athanase Papadopoulos, Menelaus' Spherics:  Early Translation and al-Mahani'/al-Harawi's version (Critical edition of Menelaus' Spherics from the Arabic manuscripts, with historical and mathematical commentaries), De Gruyter, Series: Scientia Graeco-Arabica,  21,  2017, 890 pages. ISBN 978-3-11-057142-4

title: Menelaus's theorem


text:
Talk:Aero (chocolate bar)

How is it made? Edward 06:15, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)

Tagline
Maybe a note can be added about the (current?) tagline "All bubble, no squeak" found on some wrappers - AKeen 06:29, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

It is sold in England
I went on holiday to England in June/July of 2005, and remember eating Aero there. Lots of it. I live in Australia btw, and we do have Aero here, but I remember eating it in England, therefore Aero is sold in England, so shouldnt the fact that you can buy it in England be added to the article? tpg1989 10:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The article already talks about it being invented and sold in the UK. To add the fact that it is also sold in England would be like saying that Tim-Tams were invented and sold in Australia but they are also sold in Victoria. -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, but if someone goes straight to the "Where Aero is sold" section, it doesnt say UK or England in there at all. - tpg1989 05:44, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually that is a faulty syllogism. If it were only sold in Northern Ireland, it would be sold in the UK, but not in England. Similarly if it were sold only in NSW it would be sold in Australia but not in Victoria. Fortunately it is sold in all those places. SimonTrew (talk) 19:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

United States
I just bought one an hour ago, and I live in the United States, meanining it is obviously sold here. --GorillazFanAdam 19:16, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, there you go. Best add the information to the article then. -- Derek Ross | Talk 19:26, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

how can we get this bar here in southeast US? I live in middlesboro kentucky and i wanna know where to buy this unique candy bar!

finally as of black friday 2009 i found both the mint and milk flavored aero at a Knoxville, Tennessee USA kroger... and Kroger imported em all the way from England!!! now lets go the extra mile and see if we can introduce the Aero as British candy that has become an American favorite (the only ones that are successful are Cadbury, Rolo, and Kit Kat hahaha)

If the United States will EVER have Aero... we side with the Brits when it comes to taste... one thing: don't tell the American public that Aero bars were made in the United Kingdom. if you do it'll turn off American people! just say... "it was made in the United States to a sweeter recipe!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harvey994 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

 * When Hershey made a similar bar, as noted in the article, it showed poor sales in the US. I remember trying it and was a good chocolate bar. Obviously not good enough to generate the kind of sales figures it needed to continue offering it. THX1136 (talk) 21:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Not Sold Everywhere In US Because it is Imported

 * According to the entry in the copyright database...

What is the copyright database? A short explanation and/or link would be useful. Loganberry (Talk) 00:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It sounds like the person meant patent, not copyright. Copyright would be completely irrelevant in this situation. I'll search for patents and update if I find anything. Ithika 17:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Patent details added M100 08:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Obviously it is sold in the U.S. if it is imported. I bet you paid like 2 or 3 dollars for it, am I right? That's to pay the costs of importing it. I know that Southern Seasons imports Aero bars and a ton of other international chocolate. There are probably also other stores who make you pay two or three times as much as it normally costs if it is bought in the country of origin because it is being imported.- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.211.151.123 (talk • contribs).

Whenever I go to Kroger, an Aero 1.6oz 46g (Milk or Mint) will cost ya $1.39 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harvey994 (talk • contribs) 09:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

$1.39 is the best price of an Aero. It is the typical price. Amazon and British import shops here in the US sell it as high as $2 for a 1.6oz 46g bar. Some places here in the US sell it for as low as $1.29... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.100.3.169 (talk) 04:03, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Bros=Aero?
I don't think the dutch Bros bar is actually the same bar as Aero, since it's been in existence for 60 years or so and was only sold to Rowntree Mackintosh in the 1980's. It doesn't really look like the Aero bar either.

no it's the Dutch name for it. meanin brittle. obviously the dutch wiki doesnt say Aero

Actually, the Bros bar was originally produced by the Dutch company Bensdorp. However, when the company was bought by Unilever, Unilever sold the production machinery for Bros bars and the brand name 'Bros' to the British company Rowntree Mackintosh. Rowntree Mackintosh was later bought by Nestlé. The original Bros bar was different from the Aero bar in structure and ingredients, now it's the same. I think that originally, Nestlé sold the Bros bars (old recipe) as 'choco-lite'. Nestlé still uses the brand name Bros in the Netherlands for the Aero bar (with some consumers complaining that it's not the same as the old Bros bar). I'll dig up some sources, but as this unfolded before the heyday of internet, it requires some good old library work. 80.112.163.9 (talk) 11:44, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Older US version
From the 1970s, we had Choco-Lite, from Nestle. same process.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:41, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

 * I wonder if it was made via a license with Rowntree? THX1136 (talk) 21:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

New Shape Aero
There is a new shape aero bar that is more curved - I will see if I can get a picture or if anyone else has one post it. The current picture of the chocolate is obsolete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.55.17.248 (talk) 23:27, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I uploaded a couple pictures of the new bars. If you have anything better, feel free to replace them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HyperbolicSheet (talk • contribs) 23:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Germany
The German Aero chocolate bar is produced by a company unrelated to Nestle. 77.184.37.59 (talk) 19:04, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aero (chocolate bar)


text:
User talk:Sutradhar links

Welcome!
Hi Anindya, and a warm welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you have enjoyed editing as much as I did so far and decide to stay. Unfamiliar with the features and workings of Wikipedia? Don't fret! Be Bold! Here's some good links for your reference and that'll get you started in no time!

""

Most Wikipedians would prefer to just work on articles of their own interest. But if you have some free time to spare, here are some open tasks that you may want to help out :

""

Oh yes, don't forget to sign when you write on talk pages, simply type four tildes, like this: ~. This will automatically add your name and the time after your comments. And finally, if you have any questions or doubts, don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Once again, welcome! =)

- Mailer Diablo 06:16, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:View munnar.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:View munnar.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you. Admrboltz (T | C) 21:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Image:Acad block.jpg requires attention
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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:English august book cover.jpg
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title: User talk:Sutradhar links


text:
User talk:Brainheart

Welcome!
Hi Brainheart, and a warm welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you have enjoyed editing as much as I did so far and decide to stay. Unfamiliar with the features and workings of Wikipedia? Don't fret! Be Bold! Here's some good links for your reference and that'll get you started in no time!

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title: User talk:Brainheart


text:
Talk:Menelaus's theorem

Article title
This title was chosen after doing a google count of variations: Update: actually, it seems like Google does not distinguish between "Menelaus' theorem" and "Menelaus theorem", so item 2 above probably includes counts of Menelaus' as well. Now I think "Menelaus' theorem" is a better title since it has consistency with how theorems are generally named.--Tokek 06:44, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Theorem of Menelaus: 185 hits
 * Menelaus theorem: 2180 hits
 * Menelaus' theorem: 2180 hits
 * Menelaus's theorem: 552 hits

Update2: it seems like one query can also count other results, e.g. searching for "menelaus theorem" results in also counting "menelaus's theorem" so the google way isn't a very good way of finding out what is the most popular. I will create redirects for now of the four that I think are reasonable titles.

About the equation
According to the Chinese Wikipedia and my math textbook, the right-hand side of the equation should be 1, instead of -1. The common assumption in school(the high school I attend, at least)is that length measurements are restricted to being a positive value, which in turn restricts the value of the right-hand side to 1. The idea that a length value can be negative is a bit confusing. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Thomas Yen 14:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, you cannot simply change the formula without changing the rest of the text, including the explanation of what negative lengths mean in this context. I changed the article so that it allows both formulations. I hope that the current version agrees with your textbook, in which case I would be grateful if you could add it as a reference. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:40, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Menelaus's theorem is in fact supposed to have a -1 in it. The reason why is because the orientation of segments matter: AB=-BA. Otherwise the trigonometric version of Menelaus's theorem would yield a different result. Qoou.Anonimu (talk) 01:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

---

I think that the equation along with the subsequent explanation, as they are now, are just wrong: either you take unsigned segments and assert that the product equals 1, or take signed segments and equal the product to -1.

If no one convinces me on the contrary in the next few days, I will change again the 1 to -1.

Jose Brox (talk) 14:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Dual?
Does someone have a source for the claim that this is dual to Ceva? In my opinion this is an erroneous claim. Tkuvho (talk) 15:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I found corroboration on From Funk to Hilbert geometry Athanase Papadopoulos and Marc Troyanov on page 63

Jackass
What jackass has an absolute value evaluating to minus one?

 * Thank you for pointing that out, it is now corrected. --Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Menelaus's theorem


text: User talk:211.31.34.241

title: User talk:211.31.34.241


text:
Wikipedia talk:Deletion of useless stub templates and stub categories

Voting is underway on this policy here: Deletion of useless stub templates and stub categories/Vote

Why this page was created
I felt this is necessary, as there are certain stubs that project members at the WikiProject Stub sorting feel are useless and have not passed TFD or CFD. Due to the nature of stubs, they can not be immediately deleted, especially when they have no use at all. -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:19, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Two things:

 * 1) Trouble is, the rules on the project page actually make the process more long-winded. You mention here stubs that haven't passed tfd or cfd, yet you say here they need to have not passed tfd - a direct contradiction. Or is the project page meant to read "once any of the following guidelines have been met"?
 * I wrote it in a hurry. I meant "once any of the following guidelines have been met".  TFD and CFD rules still apply, but we can optionally skip that process. -- AllyUnion (talk) 08:33, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) How do we list stubs as useless? Do we mention their uselessness on Talk:Stub sorting, or here, or put them on tfd? Or do we just revert them to stub or rename them as felt appropriate? It's all a little confusing... Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 06:29, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * This is not the final draft. -- AllyUnion (talk) 08:36, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Clarification
Okay, so I'm bad at writing this. Let me write what I really meant:

 * 1) If the stub template was listed at templates for deletion:
 * 2) * Notification must given to WikiProject Stub sorting during the voting process
 * 3) * The consensus on templates for deletion was delete
 * 4) ** May only be deleted after:
 * 5) ** Once all uses of the stub template has been changed back to   (or an appropriate related subject-related stub)
 * 6) *** Optionally: The appropriate stub category can be deleted if and only if no other stub template is using that category.

 * 1) Else if the stub category has been placed on categories for deletion
 * 2) * Notification must given to WikiProject Stub sorting during the voting process
 * 3) * The consensus on categories for deletion was delete
 * 4) ** May only be deleted after:
 * 5) ** The related stub template that uses the stub category is either deleted or is changed to use a different existing stub category.
 * 6) *** If the related stub template is going to be deleted, all uses of the stub template must change back to   (or an appropriate related subject-related stub)

 * 1) Else if Project members at WikiProject Stub sorting feel that the stub is useless and needs to be removed after it has been completely discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting

 * 1) Else if a stub template and/or stub category has been deemed as vandalism at the discretion of an administrator

 * 1) Else if the stub has not been approved at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting for its creation

Updated
Okay, I updated the page. I hope that is much clear now. -- AllyUnion (talk) 09:51, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Unapproved stubs
I have a problem with the immediate deletion of unapproved stubs. I can see that it is a useful thing to keep the project in the loop and organized, but I don't see the problem with listing it for vote (according to the proposed policy) prior to deletion. Perhaps the user isn't aware of the existence of the stub sorting project and having their stuff unilaterally deleted might give a pretty bad impression, to say the least. There are existing policies to cover vandalism and what not, so I don't really see the need to have this section. --jag123 10:50, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Same here. Virtually none of the regional geo-stubs I made were "approved", as I did not realise at the time how much more organised and regimented stub-sorting was compared to other projects on Wikipedia. Should they now be deleted according to this rule? (What's more, having them approved would have taken considerable time - it is very likely that if they had had to go through a review process I would have got bored of the whole idea and gone off to work in another part of Wikipedia!). Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 23:44, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think creating stubs that are planned anyway (a much more compelte set of area geo stubs were planned in the new hierarchy) should be a problem. --Circeus 22:07, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd still prefer it if an unapproved stub were debated by WP:WSS prior to deletion, with the exception of those obviously created for vandalism or other spurious purposes. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]

Discrepancy in proposal
I note that the "Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting removal process", rules 1 and 2 talk of a 10-day process, but rules 2 and 3 also refer to a two-week period. Personally I feel that the shorter period is already on the long side (a week would be fine in my view), but whichever way it needs to be tidied up. Grutness|hello? 06:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It seems to me that one week is more than enough to reach a consensus. Two weeks could be needed in controversial cases, but I believe those are rare. --Sn0wflake 16:16, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Extend the definition of "vandalism"...
... to include frivolously created stubs (such as banana-stub, template stub etc). Grutness|hello? 06:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The best point about this proposal
IMO the best thing about this proposal is it lets it stand alone from tfd and cfd. At the moment the process of stub deletion is a lengthy one. Deletions are proposed on WP:WSS, and if agreed to there are then sent for further debate at tfd, with the categories going to cfd. As it is, when something is sent to cfd the usual comment is "delete if the template gets deleted by tfd" - in other words, it's merely a rubber-stamp. It is also possible (inevitable?) that there will be occasions when WP:WSS don't want a stub, but deletion is not agreed to by tfd. The corrent proposals streamlime the deletion process, something which is greatly needed. Grutness|hello? 06:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Order of steps
Can we clarify that determining consensus precedes emptying the category? As written the proposal describes deleting the cateogry/template once the category is empty. It should have discussion and consensus determining before that. RJFJR 13:57, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

WHY is it proposed
I think the introduction needs to explain why precisely is this proposal (threat stub deletion separately from the TFD and CFD processes) made, and that we do not actually want to "take control" of this process, but rather point out that those who work out the hierarchy and rules for stub creation are more likely to have an idea of the uselessness or not of a stub (remember the american state stubs?). Circeus 16:39, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * remember them? Two of them were re-created yesterday! Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 23:11, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we should also make it clear in the introduction that all deletions per this policy will have been discussed at length by the WSS, and another vote on TFD and CFD would be redundant. But maybe we shouldn't discuss these deletions on WSS/Criteria as we do now, but start a WP:SMFD (stub messages for deletion) to make the process more transparent and inline with the other deletion-related pages. -- grm_wnr Esc  04:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm beginning to wonder if the WP pages for Stub sorting need a bit of an overhaul anyway - it's forked a bit and grown into a bit of a tangle. But I suspect (shudder) that we'd need a special new page to discuss whether an overhaul is needed! Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 00:53, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Why not start a new project page, to be used as a hub for all projects related to stub sorting? Once it is properly established, discussions could be held regarding new policies and a careful analysis of all stub types could be made. We could then propose the creation of new categories and the deletion of old obsolete categories. I mean... it's been three days since you first posted the list of obsolete stubs and it seems nothing has happened. If we had a effective system at our disposal, the members of the project could work together at quickly emptying categories and in one day or two we'd have a much cleaner stub list. What is needed anyway for a policy to be approved? --Sn0wflake 01:20, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Support a complete overhaul of all stub-related pages (Not just WP:WSS). The whole topic is mighty confusing, redundant and sometimes even contradictory. -- grm_wnr Esc  10:46, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Overhaul too. Circeus 12:10, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to turn this into a vote ;) This doesn't really belong here, I'm afraid. I started a discussion on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Stub_sorting. -- grm_wnr Esc  15:31, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)