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User talk:Marky1981/Archive/2005

Removal of navigation boxout from Enterprise episodes pages
Hello! I said that I would fix the links, but I have to sleep sometimes! Why remove the boxouts and make the pages in consistent? I now have to reinstate them AND fix the links. Please at least let me know before you do it; I am trying to make the pages consistent in layout and content. There is a lot of work to do! Regards, Stephen.

Enterprise episodes
Hi. I highly commend you for adding all the Enterprise episode pics etc. Just one little thing though, could you please use a lowercase 'e' for the word 'episode', i.e. "... (Enterprise episode)", to maintain the standard. Thanks! Marky1981 23:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: Hello Mark! Many thanks for your appreciation of my efforts. These pages have a long way to go before they are correctly templated and mutually consistent. I will make the appropriate changes to the page titles and links in order to maintain consistency. Regards, Stephen.

Star Trek character redirects
Re: Star trek character redirects to List of Star Trek characters. There was repeated consensus on the VfD page to merge/redirect to List of Star Trek characters for "minor characters", so i have been doing a lot of minor characters recently. However, obviously, there is no consensus on what exactly constitutes a "minor character". Some people think no Star Trek characters are notable, some think all are. Some (including myself) believe in a moderate compromise; even within a category as inherently interesting as Star Trek there is still scope for cruft. I admit Lwaxana Troi is probably more notable than warrants a redirect, feel free to check the other ones i have redirected for notability (but please bear in mind the VfD consensus, this isnt just my decision!), all i would ask is that you let me know if you are reverting my changes. Cheers, Jdcooper 14:49, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

''Thank you for your comment. I just was slightly concerned, imagining that each Star Trek characters' page would get compressed into a single sentence! I didn't realise there was any consensus (it's something you don't come across unless you already know it is there!). I found and added a comment to Talk:List of Star Trek characters regarding this issue. Personally I would suggest that any character that can't be expanded beyond 2-3 sentences doesn't 'deserve' their own article. However, recurring characters (e.g. Lwaxana Troi) and perhaps important single-episode characters (e.g. Edith Keeler) should get their own article, as long as there is at least a couple of paragraphs that can be written about them. If you come across any characters with just 'this character was in a Star Trek episode' type of entry, then by all means send to the redirect! Thanks, Marky1981 15:49, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)''

ST: First Contact inconsistency
You wrote:

 * A member of the crew reports that the Borg have taken over deck 26, but Picard tells Lily there are 24 decks.

Just a side thought on this. Even if there's only 24 decks, that doesn't necessarily mean one couldn't be deck 26. See Thirteenth floor as an example: floor #14 is actually the fourtheeth floor. Just thought I'd say that. :) Cburnett July 2, 2005 23:56 (UTC)

 * Yeah although I can't imagine there being much supersticion in the 24th Century! Will have to watch all TNG to see if they mention a deck 13!

 * Hehe, yeah. Cburnett July 3, 2005 02:00 (UTC)

RE: Hillsong albums
You wrote: ''Hi, I noticed you have filled in the dates of some of the Hillsong album release dates. I was just wondering where you got the dates from as I couldn't find them! I thought they were usually released in Australia in July? Cheers, Marky1981 09:36, 11 August 2005 (UTC)''

I probably should have annotated my edits to include references to my source info... While the official Hillsong Music website doesn't give any indication of release and recording dates, I managed to glean this info from the two major Christian bookstore retailers here in Australia - Word and Koorong.

It is a tradition that Hillsong launches its albums at each annual Hillsong Conference, held in July. It's also worth mentioning that the recording takes place in late February.

Cheers, Niclee 08:15, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Changing Trek episode titles
Have you checked with the folks at the Wikiproject page before changing the links to the various Enterprise episodes? I think you need to make sure that what you're doing fits in with the established style guide for Trek episodes. ENT has been used in the creation of a bunch of new episode articles that appeared yesterday, and as far as I understand it the WikiProject participants have agreed to use 3-letter abbreviations for disambiguation (VOY for Voyager, etc.) It's an abbreviation, not an acronym. Also, I don't recommend changing private messages as I've seen you do on a couple of talk pages. I believe that is against Wikipedia rules. Cheers. 23skidoo 14:49, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

 * View my response.

title: User talk:Marky1981/Archive/2005


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Sri Mariamman Temple, Singapore

The Sri Mariamman Temple is Singapore's oldest Hindu temple. It is an agamic temple, built in the Dravidian style. Located at 244 South Bridge Road, in the downtown Chinatown district, the temple serves the majority Hindu Singaporeans, Tamilians, in the city-state. Due to its architectural and historical significance, the temple has been gazetted a National Monument and is a major tourist attraction. Sri Mariamman Temple is managed by the Hindu Endowments Board, a statutory board under the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports.

The Sri Mariamman Temple was founded in 1827 by Naraina Pillai, eight years after the East India Company established a trading settlement in Singapore. Pillai was a government clerk from Penang who arrived in Singapore with Sir Stamford Raffles on his second visit to the island in May 1819. Pillai went on to set up the island's first construction company, and also entered the textile trade. He rapidly established himself in business and was identified as a leader of the Indian community.

History

Initially, the British authorities allotted land for a Hindu temple along Telok Ayer Street. This street ran alongside Telok Ayer Bay, where most early Asian immigrants first landed in Singapore, and where they went to pray and give thanks for a safe sea journey. The Thian Hock Keng and Nagore Dargha Shrine, respectively Singapore's earliest Chinese and Indian Muslim places of worship, are located there. However, Telok Ayer Street lacked a convenient source of fresh water which was needed for Hindu temple rituals.

The British Resident of Singapore, William Farquhar, then let Pillai occupy a site near Stamford Canal in 1821. Once again, the site proved unsuitable, this time due to the 1822 Jackson Plan which reserved the Stamford Canal area for other uses. However, the plan designated an alternative site next to the existing temple – marked as "Kling Chapel" ("Kling" is a derogatory term for Indians in Singapore and Malaysia). This site was near the area earmarked for the Indian community.

In 1823, the current South Bridge Road site was finally granted to Pillai for the purposes of erecting a Hindu temple. The side streets flanking the temple were later renamed in reference to the temple and its prominent tower – Pagoda Street and Temple Street.

By 1827, Pillai had built a simple temple made of wood and attap. In the same year, he installed Sinna Amman, a small representation of the goddess Mariamman, in the temple. Mariamman is a rural South Indian mother goddess who is especially worshipped for protection against diseases. According to the Hindu Endowments Board, the current managers of the temple, the existing deity in the principal shrine of the temple is the original installed by Pillai in 1827. As is the common practice, the temple is named after its principal deity. The temple was also known to devotees over the years as the Sithi Vinayagar and Gothanda Ramaswamy Mariamman Temple or, more simply, Mariamman Kovil (kovil being the Tamil word for temple).

The temple grounds were expanded in 1831 when private land was donated to the temple. This event is recorded on a stone tablet which still stands in the temple. The text inscribed on this tablet reads: "The grant N:075 With its building transferred for charity sake to Cothunda Ramasamy by Sashasalapilly son of Cuddalore Amicarapoatrapilly Singapore March 1831". The oldest parts of the existing brick structure date to 1843, and additions and alterations were subsequently made at various points in the history of the temple. It is believed that most of this work, especially the elaborate plaster sculptures and ornamentation, were produced by skilled craftsmen from the Nagapattinam and Cuddalore districts of Tamil Nadu in South India. A major part of the present structure is believed to have been built in 1862–1863. The walkway connecting the main entrance to the principal shrine was originally covered in attap, but this was destroyed in a fire in 1910. The architectural firm of Swan and Maclaren then designed a more permanent walkway in 1915.

The original three-tiered gopuram (entrance tower) was constructed in 1903. It was slimmer and less richly embellished than the current tower. The sides of the tower also appeared to be more stepped than sloping. Nonetheless, it had an iconic presence in Chinatown, and was a widely recognised landmark. The present six-tiered gopuram was built in 1925. It was repaired and restored with an elaborate proliferation of sculptures in the 1960s.

In the 1940s there was a well in the temple compound that has since been filled.

Sri Mariamman Temple was gazetted a National Monument on 6 July 1973 by the Preservation of Monuments Board.

An elevated viewing gallery was added to the temple which is especially popular with spectators during the annual timiti (firewalking) festival. Another major addition is a three-storey annexe building sited to the rear of the temple. This annexe has a separate entrance on to Pagoda Street, with an elaborate facade featuring traditional sculptural plasterwork. The spacious building has a fully equipped auditorium and facilities for weddings, multimedia presentations, corporate meetings, seminars and cultural events.

Social role of the temple
Sri Mariamman Temple is important serving as a refuge for new immigrants, particularly South Indian Tamil Hindus. Besides providing an important place of worship for these immigrants, the temple granted them shelter until they found work and more permanent accommodation. Historically, the temple was the registry of marriages for Hindus. At that time, only the priest of the Sri Mariamman Temple was authorised to solemnise Hindu marriages in Singapore. Today, in addition to its religious services and functions, the temple promotes various social, cultural and educational activities.

Art and architecture
Built in the South Indian architecture| style, this temple features a gopuram that rises above the main entrance along South Bridge Road. It is richly embellished with six tiers of sculptures of Hindu deities, other figures and ornamental decorations. The tower tapers up towards to a moulded ornamental ridge. The scale of each tier and its sculptures is slightly smaller than that of the tier immediately below it. This helps to create the illusion of height and adds to the symbolic importance of the building. Flanking the gopuram are a sculpture of Murugan on the right and Krishna on the left (as one enters). The sculptures are all of plaster, which allows for fine detailing. They are painted in a variety of bright colours, which adds to the visually spectacular quality of the gopuram.

The floor plan of the gopuram base block is rectangular and is bisected by an entrance passageway. The entrance contains a pair of very large double-leaf timber doors. The scale of these doors is intended to induce humility in the visitor and emphasise the diminutive human scale in relation to the divine. The doors are studded with small gold bells arranged in a grid pattern, which devotees are supposed to ring as they move through. Footwear is also stored around the entrance area, as it is not allowed within Hindu temples as a sign of respect.

The main entrance with the gopuram is only one of the entrances into the temple compound, which is surrounded by a perimeter wall. Side openings also exist, which open on to the flanking Pagoda Street and Temple Street. However, these are mainly used as service entrances, with all devotees and visitors entering through the gopuram doors. The compound wall is also decorated with ornamental mouldings, as well as figures placed on top of the wall at various points, including several prominent seated cow sculptures.

Within the walled compound, the temple comprises a combination of covered halls, shrines and service areas, as well as courtyards open to the sky. Leading directly from the gopuram entrance through a covered hall is the main prayer area, with richly ornamented columns and ceilings with frescoes. The ceiling paintings include a large mandala diagram.

Shrines and deities
The focus of the main prayer hall is the central shrine of Mariamman, which is flanked by the shrines of two secondary deities, Rama and Murugan. The main prayer hall is surrounded by a series of free-standing shrines, housed in pavilion-like structures with decorated dome roofs, known as Vimana. These are dedicated to the following deities: Durga, Ganesha, and Shiva.

The shrine to Draupadi is the second most important in the temple, as she is central to the annual thimithi or firewalking festival held in this temple. To the left of Draupadi are the five Pandavas from the Mahabharata epic – Yudhishthira, Bhima, Arjuna, Sahadeva and Nakula. They are presided over by Lord Krishna.

Another important element of the temple is the free-standing flagpole (dhvajastambham). A few days before major festivals or ritual ceremonies, a flag is raised here.

Kumbhabhishekham
Kumbhabhishekham is a Hindu temple ritual that is believed to homogenize, synergize and unite the mystic powers of the deity. This process is believed to keep the icon rejuvenated for a period of 12 years. Sri Mariamman Temple's first Kumbhabhishekham was recorded in 1936 whereas the last one has taken place on 12 February 2023

Festivals

Once every 12 years, in keeping with Hindu tradition, the temple is reconsecrated. An annual timiti or fire walking ceremony is held about a week before Deepavali, the Festival of Lights.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Sri Mariamman Temple, Singapore


text:
Bob Butterworth

Robert A. Butterworth Jr. (born August 20, 1942) is an American attorney and politician from the U.S. state of Florida.

Early life and career
Butterworth was born in Passaic, New Jersey, and moved to Florida with his family as a child. He received a degree in business administration from the University of Florida in 1965, and a Juris Doctor degree from the University of Miami in 1969. He is a member of Tau Kappa Epsilon and previously served on its international board of directors.

Butterworth was a judge in the county and circuit courts of Broward County from 1974 to 78, when he was appointed sheriff of Broward County. He was appointed to head up Florida's Department of Motor Vehicles in 1982 and to be mayor of Sunrise, Florida in 1984.

In 1986, on the eve of his election as attorney general, Butterworth's ex-wife, Saundra, fatally shot their 16-year-old son, Robert A. Butterworth III, and then killed herself on a northeast Miami street. Police said she was mentally ill and had used a gun Butterworth had given her for protection before their divorce in 1976. Butterworth has two surviving children, a daughter, BreAnne and her brother, Brandon.

Florida Attorney General
A Democrat, Butterworth served as the 33rd Attorney General of Florida for four consecutive terms under four governors (both Republican and Democrat): Bob Martinez, Lawton Chiles, Buddy MacKay, and Jeb Bush. He was first elected in 1986 and reelected in 1990, 1994, and 1998. His popularity among voters in the state led to frequent mention of his name as a potential candidate for Governor of Florida or for the U.S. Senate.

Capital punishment
Butterworth was attorney general during the final years of use of the electric chair in executing death row prisoners. It was notorious for frequent malfunctions in the 1990s, namely in the cases of Jesse Tafero (executed May 4, 1990), Pedro Medina (executed March 25, 1997) and Allen Lee Davis (executed July 8, 1999). Reportedly, six-inch flames shot out of Tafero's head and 12-inch flames shot out of Medina's head, raising the question whether use of the electric chair was cruel and unusual punishment. After the Medina execution, Butterworth commented, "People who wish to commit murder, they'd better not do it in the state of Florida because we may have a problem with the electric chair."

Tobacco lawsuit
One of Butterworth's key activities during his time in office was the initiation and execution of Florida's lawsuit against the tobacco industry, which was one of the early contributions to what eventually became a nationwide effort. As a result of this suit, tobacco companies agreed to pay $11 billion to the state of Florida.

Involvement in the 2000 election
Butterworth was the Florida chair of Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign and chose not to use his capacities as Attorney General to influence court decisions on whether all the votes would be counted, given the obvious conflict of interest that would have been involved in doing so. (Butterworth did argue in favor of a statewide recount in the media.)

Butterworth's Republican counterpart, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, was the Florida chair of George W. Bush's presidential campaign.

Later activities
In 2002, Butterworth ran for Seat 25 in the Florida Senate, in hopes of representing portions of Palm Beach and Broward Counties. He resigned as Attorney General because of Florida's "resign-to-run laws. However, he was defeated by Republican Jeffrey Atwater.

Butterworth was dean of the School of Law at St. Thomas University. On December 19, 2006, governor-elect Charlie Crist named Butterworth as the new secretary of the Florida Department of Children and Families. On July 29, 2008, Secretary Butterworth resigned his post as Secretary of The Department of Children and Families and joined a Fort Lauderdale law firm.

title: Bob Butterworth


text: Category:Hindu temples in Singapore

title: Category:Hindu temples in Singapore


text:
Talk:List of Sony trademarks

S2 dis-ambiguiation
How is the S2 link in this article supposed to be dis-ambiguated as?? There are a total of 5 links on the dis-ambiguation page "S2", but I don't know which one it's supposed to be here. Georgia guy 22:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

None of them. S2 in this case refers to the second generation of their SPORTS branded equipment. Probably the link should be S2 Records --Dtcdthingy 02:45, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Accuracy
The list and links need to be reviewed for accuracy. What sort of "cell" does Sony own a trademark for. The link certainly doesn't inform us about this. The "Century Media" link redirects us to "Century Media Records," an article which doesn't even mention Sony once...

--4.245.5.118 00:09, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A quick search of the trademark database reveals a media company called "Century Media Inc" and another called "Century Media Network" either of which Sony may now own. Cell is the name of a processor being developed by Sony for the PlayStation 3. Both are listed as Trademarks by Sony (check the links section). I'll fix the wikilinks --Dtcdthingy 01:38, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dream Machine
Dream Machine (the development codename for the PlayStation)

this may be the case, but I think Dream Machine is also the name of Sony's line of alarm clock/radios. That might bear mentioning?67.169.58.50

Substantial vandalism
There has been a large scale vandalism to this page, adding random articles and terms. Most do not have pages yet so are hard to weed out. I've made a start but it needs assisstance. 86.17.211.191 (talk) 20:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Dates
This list of trademarks would be much more useful if it listed the year a trademark was first registered, and the last year it was used.-96.237.7.195 (talk) 11:08, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of Sony trademarks


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Criticism of Wikipedia/2005-02-25

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. -- AllyUnion (talk) 23:44, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Criticism of Wikipedia
What's that? Cannot we even assure NPOV in the article about Wikipedia itself? Partially merge and redirect to the Wikipedia article and death to all POV forks, BTW.

Note: There was a previous VfD 2004-Dec-23 but the discussion drifted away to question whether and which criticism of Wikipedia should be allowed, with statements like "Keep. It is POV not to have articles that are critical of Wikipedia". Ahem, the Wikipedia article itself should contain the critical POV. Also some contributors remarked, that Criticism of Wikipedia is much too pro-Wikipedia. Anyway, it's easier and suggested by policy, to put all aspects in Wikipedia an enhance that one article.

Pjacobi 22:02, 2005 Feb 25 (UTC)

 * I think this VfD is ill-considered on several counts. For starters, I believe it is completely incorrect to call it a "POV fork" in the first place.  If someone said "Hmmm, the article on Wikipedia is getting pretty large, why don't we make Sister projects of Wikipedia or Software and hardware of Wikipedia or History of Wikipedia its own article?" no one would call it a fork; why then is Criticism of Wikipedia a "POV fork"?  As Pjacobi says, it is suggested by policy that all aspects of a subject go into that subject's article, but it is not only suggested by policy that aspects of a subject get spun out if the subject's article gets too large, it's a suggestion that's automatically made by the editing software every time the size of the article approaches 32K!  It is definitely not the case that policy is unambiguously calling for a merge and redirect.  I am voting for a keep unless some more convincing case than 'this is a POV fork (disputed) and "all POV forks must be killed"' is made. -- Antaeus Feldspar 01:08, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep There's no reason why there can't be a reasonable analysis of criticisms of something important. Besides, this article is very good.-LtNOWIS 03:36, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Seems useful. Should be summarized and linked as a "main article" from within "Wikipedia". In the unlikely event that others decide this doesn't belong in main space, then it belongs in Wikipedia space. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:03, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * That appears to be the current situation. Kappa 08:38, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - Pjacobi seems to be on a chase of the dubious "POV fork". The vFd on this article is another of his victims, a royal PIA, and a waste of time. --Zappaz 06:09, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I thought this fork sub-page was specifically created to allow the main article to have a pro-wikipedia POV. Kappa 08:38, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * While I'm not opposed to this article per se, isn't there something remarkably similar on here already? (arguments against WP, or something). If so, merge. And anyway shouldn't this be in the wikipedia namespace? Radiant! 09:42, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * There are other articles like [Wikipedia:Why Wikipedia is not so great]] and Replies to common objections. I think the difference is that this page is supposed to be NPOV and not original research. Kappa 10:44, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Wikipedia is already too heavy, and doesn't need extra baggage. Very healthy for wikipedia to criticise itself. --SqueakBox 17:19, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep user PJacobi has misguided ideas about POV forks. If you vote to keep this one then also please vote to keep Votes_for_deletion/Criticism_of_Prem_Rawat The subject is more obscure but it has been listen on VfD for exactly the same reasons. Andries 18:46, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks too much like replies to common objections to me. Move to wikipedia namespace, and possible merge back into Replies to common objections. cesarb 23:39, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article needs improvement perhaps, but the questions over content raised seem to be ones that can be fixed by editing the article.  The different points of view can be discussed and should be attributed.  (The Wikipedia namespace articles don't have to have such an attribution as they are from the voice of the Wikipedia organization itself.)  If someone with these concerns wants to do a major rewrite, I'd encourage it.  The topic has at least been newsworthy enough to be mentioned. "Article needs improvement", "Article is biased or has lots of POV", and "Dispute over article content" are all listed as Problems that don't require deletion.  The reasons given so far seem to fall under those cases IMO. --Sketchee 02:32, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, but To what extent an article should speak about and quote current WP editors (in their capacity as WP editors) is a question that, I think, not nearly enough weight has been alloted to. The problem is the inter-Wikipedia nature of notability. We are likely looking at a host of problems here which should be noted in this seemingly concluded (to keep) VfD. El_C 02:50, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. If there's an NPOV problem, fix it. Eric119 04:24, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Uh, this is obvious navalgazing. This article properly belongs on meta. Move it there. →Raul654 07:33, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Not that I approve of terms like "navalgazing", but Raul is right. That said, meta (unfortunately) receives practically no use, and I don't think this article should be deleted... so... move or keep. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 15:50, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 220.255.11.4 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=220.255.11.4] is a vandalising troll with a history and should not be listened to. I have removed his offensive comments as more vandalism. --SqueakBox 19:12, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep; there's a respectable precedent of Article X coexisting with a parallel Criticisms of X. Moving to meta is also acceptable, and the subject is already well-covered in the Wiki namespace, but I think keeping this version in the main namespace is OK. Antandrus 19:23, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Aren't we allowed to state our own case? Or should we expect critics to infer our defence from reading between the lines of our articles? -- llywrch 03:28, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. The Recycling Troll 09:54, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and Clean Up Seems to pretty much fit in with my experience of Wikipedia.  If anything it is too pro-Wiki to be truly NPOV, although it's close enough for government work. --Stephenboothuk 12:54, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Floater (band)

Floater is an American rock band currently based in Portland, Oregon. The band was started in 1993 by Robert Wynia, along with Peter Cornett and David Amador. They are known for their progressive concept albums, stylized storytelling, intense live performances, and devoted fanbase. Floater routinely sells out local venues in Oregon and periodically plays shows in the neighboring states of Washington, California, Nevada, and Idaho. Floater has played a variety of venues, including CBGB in New York and the Roxy Theatre in Los Angeles. The band was also a musical guest for Live Wire Radio on OPB radio. The band was voted the "Best Band" in the Willamette Week "Best of Portland" reader's poll for 2009 and 2010.

Formation in Eugene: Sink & Glyph (1993-1997)
The seeds for Floater were planted when Robert Wynia placed a musician-wanted ad in Eugene, Oregon and it was answered by Cornett. By 1992, they had formed the band Henry's Child. Rob and Pete left Henry's Child after the musical direction was not what they wanted, and they formed a band called The Dog's. Sometime after, their guitarist got drunk and ruined a local gig and Dave Amador stepped in to replace him. The moniker of The Dog's was replaced with Floater. It was 1993 and they began playing small garage parties and eventually the University of Oregon. In early 1994, Floater recorded their first four-song demo tape Stiff & Restless at Pro-Arts studio. Later, in early 1994, Floater recorded a nine-song demo tape Sink, which was the four tracks off of Stiff & Restless, plus 5 new songs, which were recorded at the home of a friend in his studio. This tape impressed the indie record label Elemental, when Rob and Pete handed Jonathan Boldt a copy of their demo tape, who a short time later signed them. Floater's first full-length album, Sink, was released on September 9, 1994 and contained some songs from the demos. One year later in October 1995, a second full-length album was released, titled Glyph. This album increased the band's popularity in the Pacific Northwest and allowed tours further east, into Arizona, Utah and Texas as well as an excursion to New York in the fall of 1996.

With the popularity of their song "The Sad Ballad of Danny Boy" and the help of then soon-to-be defunct national Z Rock radio network, Floater's airplay increased greatly. The network shut down in late 1996, but not before acquiring scattered fans across the nation as in Georgia, Iowa, New Jersey, and even outside the U.S. in Quebec. In another deleted internet article, it was mentioned that Floater also received play via Digital Music Express circa 1996.

During these first few years, Floater received nominations to the preliminary level of the Grammy Awards from NARAS in 1995 under "Best Rock Performance" for Sink and in 1996 under "Best Alternative Performance" for Glyph. According to World Drum! a newsletter for CD World in Eugene and Corvallis, Floater sold 21,000 copies of Sink and Glyph combined. The newsletter also mentioned Floater ranked in the top 5 of Pandemoniums Annual Readers' Poll for "Best Northwest Band on an Independent Label", consistently in The Rockets "Northwest Top Twenty Chart", and having garnered the esteemed "Gavin Rocks" selection of the best band of all 300 participating in the NXNW Music Festival conference. At this time, Floater was also playing popular venues like the WOW Hall in Eugene, and La Luna and the Crystal Ballroom in Portland.

Wings to Portland - Angels In the Flesh... / Burning Sosobra (1998-2001)
Just before Floater released their third album, Angels in the Flesh and Devils in the Bone in May 1998, the band moved to Portland, Oregon where they remain today. Coinciding with this move, the band's sound slightly changed with the release of Angels. In an article from The Rocket, it was mentioned the band was ready to "ditch some of [their more rude fans.]" The album is noted for the college radio single "Mexican Bus". Prior to and throughout this time, Floater was being visited by interested major labels including Zoo Records, but they would remain unsigned by a major label.

In September 2000, Burning Sosobra was released and it marked a shift in the use of samples that Floater was known for. Rather than sampling movies and television, the band began creating the majority of their own sounds for inclusion on their albums. Burning Sosobra represented a lifting of burdens for Floater, symbolized by the burning effigy on the cover of the album. With Sosobra, Floater moved into a new phase, having purged a dubious manager and beginning to work with Cassandra Thorpe, who bought Elemental Records on September 9, 1999. The sculpture in the cover photo was a collaboration between Floater and Mark Orme. "Exiled" is considered the single of Burning Sosobra. Other notable tracks with "Independence Day" and "Waiting for the Sun," a cover of The Doors.

Alter & Acoustics (2002-2006)
Floater experimented with acoustic in-store performances throughout the late 1990s, but around the time of their New Year's Eve show in 2000/2001 at the Aladdin Theater, Floater began including entire acoustic sets in their performances. A part of the Aladdin show would be released on their second live album, Live at the Aladdin. Floater subsequently released Alter, their fifth full-length album in July 2002. The album was noted as a first step in altering their sound; however, the shift in sound was markedly less than expected. Floater's sound shifted from a focus on heavy riffs to a well-rounded and eclectic sound.

The band's exploration in sound fruited with their 2004 album Acoustics. This would coincide with an increase in acoustic performances abroad. Floater regularly plays back-to-back shows with one electric set and one acoustic set.

Stone By Stone (2006 to 2008)
Floater's 2006 release, Stone By Stone, is their most critically acclaimed record to date. The album bridged a familiar older Floater sound in the case of "An Apology" and coupled it with a new creativity infused in their songs like "Weightless," "Breakdown," and "Tonight No One Knows." "An Apology", considered the single of the album, has lyrical content suggesting a sarcastic apology: as one eye looks to the future and the other in the past.

The album also marks a time of increased effort to tour more extensively in the western United States. Floater has expanded greatly, playing larger venues in some cities, like The Showbox in Seattle, Washington and the McDonald Theatre in Eugene, Oregon. They also began playing more cities along their tours through Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and California.

Wake - Setting a new course (2009 to present)
By 2009, Floater started work on recording their eighth full-length album. Some of the tracks that were expected to appear on the upcoming album were previously recorded during the Stone By Stone sessions.

By this time, Floater hired Alex Steininger as their new manager. The band set its sights on achieving national recognition. Floater released its eighth studio album, Wake in 2010 and paid for it out of their own pockets. The album received both positive and negative reviews from both the Willamette Week and The Portland Mercury. Already, Steininger's influence can be felt as Floater has made appearances on PDXposed and OPB's Live Wire program.

In the lead up to the band's ninth album, the band switched drummers. Mark Powers replaced Pete Cornett on December 31, 2017 when he made his debut at the Star Theater in Portland. Floater released their ninth album The Thief in May 2018 after an 8-year interval. Powers is also featured on this album. Willamette Week's "Best of Portland Reader's Poll" selected Floater as Best Local Musician/Musical Group for 2018.

On November 20, 2021, it was learned that Peter Cornett, the band's original drummer, had passed away.

Studio albums

 * Sink (1994)
 * Glyph (1995)
 * Angels in the Flesh and Devils in the Bone (1998)
 * Burning Sosobra (2000)
 * Alter (2002)
 * Acoustics (2004)
 * Stone By Stone (2006)
 * Wake (2010)
 * The Thief (2018)

Live shows
Floater adds further variety to their live performances by adding various cover songs into their set list, and also integrating new verses into their own songs. They are also known for covering songs that do not necessarily coincide with their genre. Here is just a small sample of covers they have done:

 * The Doors - "Waiting for the Sun" is featured on their album Burning Sosobra.
 * U2 - "Seconds" - "Party Girl"
 * Pink Floyd - "Run Like Hell"
 * The Beatles - "Helter Skelter"
 * The Fixx - "Red Skies" (partial - included with "Settling" live)
 * Elton John - "Rocketman"
 * Depeche Mode - "Personal Jesus"
 * Traditional Irish ballad - "Wild Irish Rover"
 * Pink Floyd - "Animals (Complete Work)"

Samples
Samples are used extensively in Floater's live performances and earlier albums. Samples from the early albums were primarily from movies. While samples are present on later albums they are not as common. Those that were included, occurred infrequently and were created by the band and local actors. Their albums Sink and Glyph included samples from movies such as Apocalypse Now, THX 1138, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Shining, The Last Temptation of Christ, Nice Dreams, various episodes of The Twilight Zone and old radio programs.

Associated personnel
Guest performers
 * Keith Brown of Threscher, Two Minutes Hate, Drumattica, TV:616 and Sentenced To Life
 * Pianist for Burning Sosobra CD release tour
 * TV:616 for cover of Run Like Hell
 * Jen Folker of Dahlia
 * Jeff Chase; fire breather for 1998 performances of Mosquito
 * King Black Acid for 2009 performances of the Beatles' Helter Skelter
 * Unkle Nancy of Unkle Nancy and the Family Jewels
 * Jesse (Juice) Fletcher Lighting and Live Samples

Anthropomorphic Personifications
 * Omar - Omar

Side projects

 * Sentenced to Life - Sometime around the fall of 1995, Rob Wynia and Pete Cornett collaborated with Keith Brown to develop a short-lived side project. A cassette tape of this exists called Reminders of the Soul, with the first side being live tracks performed at the WOW Hall and the second side being studio demos. About 50 copies of the cassette tape were handed out according to Keith Brown, and around a dozen shows played in the Eugene area. At the time of this collaboration, Keith Brown was a part of the band Threscher. Keith would eventually go on to play several shows with Floater as a guest performer, filling in on acoustic guitar, bass and vocals.
 * Drumattica - A tribal/dance electronic groove band featuring Robert Wynia and David Amador.
 * Riverboat - Peter Cornett's solo project.
 * Robert Wynia / Robert Wynia and The Sound - The spoken word and solo music of Rob Wynia.

Floater in the press
Here are some examples of Floater in the media:
 * KUFO Marconi Show video interview - Part 1 Part 2
 * Eugene Weekly interview from 2004 - Floater Rising
 * The Synthesis interview - Waiting for Floater
 * The Synthesis interview - Cult of Personality is Dead
 * Willamette Week interview - Stone by Stone
 * Willamette Week article - Floater
 * PDXposed Press TV interview - "Floater" Rocks the Crystal Ballroom
 * Daily Vanguard interview from 10-2008 - Float On interview
 * The Commuter publication audio interview - Floater Audio Interview
 * Weekly Volcano article - Floater - Grunge band from back in the day plays Hell's Kitchen

title: Floater (band)


text:
Talk:Endonym and exonym

Palistines
the are called by an exonym and i sort of think that it is wrong because we should respect their name and not just go around calling them a name that we made up for them and i think that it wrong!

 * Do you mean Palestinians - the people of Palestine? Can you explain why you think using this name is wrong? Frankieparley 06:12, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

 * What name do they prefer? —Tamfang (talk) 19:19, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Native tribes and peoples of America
Almost all nativ tribes and people of America have exonyms, off the top of my head: inca, ahh...--145.94.41.95 22:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Iran?
Seems like Iran should be added to the list of examples wherein a country requests not to be refered to by use of an exonym, since it is one of the best known examples of this. Is there a particular reason it isn't included? I'd add it myself, but I don't know the date and circumstances, and have run out of time to research.

UN conference on the standardization of geographical names
Recently included content relating to the conference has been cut entirely (and not transferred to the UN conference article as indicated in my edit summary), with the invitation to tidy it up and include in that article. RealityCheck 11:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Better intro
I'd like to replace the current intro with the following. I'll go ahead and make the change if no objection is lodged:

An exonym is a name for a place or people that is different from the name used in the native language. For example, London is known as Londres in Spanish, French and Portuguese; Londra in Italian and Londýn in Czech and Slovak and Londyn in Polish. The opposite of an exonym is an endonym. Roma is an endonym, while Rome is an exonym.

The use of exonyms is often controversial. Groups often prefer that outsiders avoid exonyms; for example, Roma people prefer that term over exonyms like Gypsy. People may also seek to avoid exonyms due to historical sensitivities, as in the case of German language German names for Polish and Czech places.

In recent years, geographers have sought to reduce the use of exonyms to avoid these kind of problems. For example, it is now common for Latin Americans to refer to the Turkish capital as Ankara rather than use the Spanish exonym Angora.

But according to the United Nations Statistics Division:

''Time has, however, shown that initial ambitious attempts to rapidly decrease the number of exonyms were over-optimistic and not possible to realise in the intended way. The reason would appear to be that many exonyms have become common words in a language and can be seen as part of the language’s cultural heritage.''

(External links section:)
 * UN document discussion exonyms (PDF)
 * Jacek Wesołowski's Place Names in Europe, featuring endonyms and exonyms for many cities
 * "Does Juliet's Rose, by Any Other Name, Smell as Sweet?" by Verónica Albin.

 * Mwalcoff, this would be a good improvement. I think a revised version should maintain the point somewhere that an exonym is one which has been assigned by outsiders; the London example is helpful and could more explicitly state something along the lines of "exonyms for London include..."; and in outlining the controversy I think we need to retain the point that whether a term is considered to be an exonym can depend on how widely the concept is defined. RealityCheck 03:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you. Do you have an example of the word "exonym" being used with the narrower definition? Thanks -- Mwalcoff 23:39, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I've added a non-cognate example in the intro as these tend to give most controversy. Also renamed the page. Joestynes 10:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

An exonym becoming an endonym
The article should talk about this, too. For example, the Megleno-Romanians no longer use a word derived from "romanus", but use "vlaşi", derived from Vlach, which was originally an exonym. bogdan 11:30, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

In fact, "India", which the article calls an exonym, became an endonym quite a while ago, as India and Bharat are both now official terms for the country. עבד יהוה talk 23:42, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Post colonial India
Post colonial India is interesting in that recently Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, etc. (all major international airports) have dropped their exonyms in favour of endonyms. Some Indians have felt that this is part of an over-arching pro-Hindi political program - a component of the predominantly Hindi speaking (North-West Indian) power-holders who are working legislatively to drop English as the national language of India in favour of Hindi.

Of course, other exonyms used by the tea trade have also fallen into disuse (Formosa, Ceylon etc.) (20040302)

Revert explanation
I have reverted the changes made by the user at 128.176.76.xxx (two separate endings; probably the same user). I did replace what he/she wrote about pronunciations but put it in better English. I removed the word "now" (I assume the user meant "current") before "Polish and Czech." All of today's Czech and Polish republics were occupied by the Germans during WWII, so the sentence about German exonyms applies to all Czech and Polish place names. (I'm not going to begin to get into the situation of formerly Polish places now in former Soviet republics.) -- Mwalcoff 00:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I think you're missing the point. When it comes to German names of Polish and Czech place names, you have to distinguish traditional exonyms that were in use before WWII (because of an autochthonous German population and/or because they name places that had belonged to Germany e.g. in East Prussia and Silesia) and wartime-only German place names such as Litzmannstadt for Lodz. Nobody in Germany today (except hardcore Neonazis) will ever think of using wartime-only German place names. Traditional German place names however are commonly used and ever fewer people use the endonyms. Before the end of communism some people took exception to this because in theory the border question was not yet settled for good and they wanted to underline the fact that Breslau/Wroclaw, which was German until the war, was now Polish. So the problem is not that of occupation but that of annexation (in other words: all Poland was occupied, but only parts of present-day Poland were German before the war(s)).
 * As for your rephrasing, it may be better English but it is not as accurate. It does not contain the information that the English pronunciation of Paris is not the nearest approximation of the French (which would simply exchange the French r for an English one). It is exactly this (not being the nearest approximation) and not the mere fact that the pronunciation is phonetically different which makes it an exonym.
 * Some languages use the same spelling of an exonym but change the pronunciation.
 * I have my doubts whether you have understood the concept of exonymy. Before the change of spelling and/or pronunciation it is called an endonym, only after that is is an exonym. --89.52.126.194 20:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was a typo by me. I think everything is OK now. I just made a minor change to the language in the Paris part. -- Mwalcoff 00:35, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Maghreb, Morocco
Does not "Maghreb" (and related words and spellings) refer to the whole Mediterranean-Coastal region of North-west Africa? Including Tunisia and colastal Algeria? So does not the use of the word by Morrocons refer to a trans-national identity at least as much as it does to the country that in English is known as "Morocco?" Dvd Avins 21:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The litteral meaning of Arabic "Maghrib" is "West", and Morocco is the farthest west Arab state... AnonMoos 17:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The entire western region of Arabian colonization was historically referred to The West / Al'Maghreb, this included modern Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Spain, and Portugal. Morocco's use of Maghreb as the name of the country is similar to the USA's use of the word America, or Colombia's use of that name, both of which are historic names of the Western Continent. The term Maghreb is used for both the country and the region in Arabic, but the region now generally includes Western Sahara and Mauritania, and excludes Spain and Portugal.

Cymry?
Changed Cymry to correct spelling, Cymru, which of course does not mean 'Welsh,' but Wales.

Those are two different words and both are correct.212.76.37.191 22:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Using of the exonym and endonym words
I absolutely support using the exonyma in the national languages, because it is a part of our language and culture. But very often it is necessary to use both the exonym and endonym, because many people have troubles with the pronounciation or knowledge of some names. In my opinion it would be nonsense to say in English: I visited Praha. Normally you would say: I visited Prague but you should know that the endonym of Prague is Praha. The same example in the Czech language: You never say: Navštívil jsem London (I visited London) but Navštívil jsem Londýn.

Titles of lists
58.179.72.140 changed "exonyms" to "endonyms" for the titles of a couple lists. This change looks wrong for the one that now says "List of English endonyms for peoples" because the English is the exonym. Otherwise, I would agree that the title should say these are endonyms because it really is a lookup for speakers of English that would perhaps only know the exonym already. Maybe just removing "English" makes more sense for that one table. Skapare 04:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Exonym? or subtle difference?
Does it really rise to being a case of true exonym, at least for inclusion in a table or list, if the root form is obviously the same and there is only a minor spelling variance to fit the rules of another language? While "Germany" is a true exonym, is "Navarre" (same basic root form over a few languages)? Skapare 04:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the same as well. Many of the country names ending in -ia (and -ie in French) differ from their original name, it seems to be stretching the definition to call all of them exonyms.  I think this shows how inadequate the term exonym. But then there's nothing we can do about it.  Uly 03:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There has been some scholarly discussion regarding more nuanced classifications for exonym and endonym. This article is one example and provides reference to others:
 * https://lartis.sk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Kudla-1.pdf
 * Perhaps an expanded definition is needed? 198.48.173.23 (talk) 16:59, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Totally agreed... The definition is stretched all the way so that anything about another culture is an exonym. Things shouldn't be streched beyond necessity :P Anyway, what i mean is, there always is at least a minor difference in pronounciation if not always in spelling. So the Eskimo calling themselves Inuit (or they never picked a particular name, as inuit simply means human) is an appropriate example but an Italian calling himself Italiano is not. Neither is a Spaniard's slightly different pronounciation of that same word Italiano.

Changing names of lists, a proposal
Some of the exonym lists are not properly so-called, I think. Definitionally: if a region's population shifts, do the former population's toponyms become exonyms? Think Roman Empire, Kaliningrad Oblast, etc. If a region is inhabited by one population but forms part of a state dominated by another, are the local's toponyms endonyms and the "official" ones imposed by the state's majority exonyms, or vice versa, or something else? Think Brittany, South Tirol, Catalonia, Kosovo, etc. If a region is inhabited by multiple populations, whose is the endonym and whose the exonym? Think Transylvania, portions of Moldova, Lithuania, Ukraine, even Los Angeles vs. Los Ángeles. And how do we know which population is the majority.

Given that I believe some of the lists of exonyms are not truly so, it may be better to rename the lot to XXXian names of places in YYY, leaving the endo- vs. exo- debate to the articles themselves: pretty clear that English names of places in Lithuania, say, are exonyms, but less clear that German or Polish names of places in Lithuania is so, and the status of Russian or Belarussian names of places in Lithuania is murkier still, as is the status of Samogitian names of places in Lithuania.

Any thoughts about name changing the lists?

Carlossuarez46 20:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

On this point, I do not believe South Africa is an exonym, as it is what South Africans call South Africa, when speaking English in South Africa, and English is an official language within South Africa. Moreover Zuid-Afrika does not predate South Africa as the official name of the country. While Dutch was official in the region prior to English, that official status was in the Kaap/Cape colony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.123.76 (talk) 09:11, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Wales
Surely the endonyms Cymru (Wales), Cymro (Welshman), Cymry (Welsh people, the Welsh) all derivez from cwm "valley" NOT "comrade". needs changing —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.78.78.41 (talk) 18:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

Merge from Ethnonym
I'm not sure if this is even a real word (see Talk:Ethnonym), but if it is, it refers to exactly the same thing as this article. Merge - Jack (talk) 10:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

 * oppose ethnonym is a word (Talk:Ethnonym was questioning endonym, not ethnonym). Ethnonym is the same as demonym and should merge there instead. The exonym-endonym distinction is a subissue deserving its separate page. jnestorius(talk) 12:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Non-English words
Would it be possible to have the non-English words in some of these lists at least transliterated to English? I mean, it's great that the endonym of Russians is "Русские" but since I can't read Cyrillic characters, I have absolutely no idea how to pronounce this. It's bad enough when I don't know the pronounciation rules of languages that use Latin characters (i.e., Dutch)--with other languages I'm totally lost (and I doubt I'm the only one). :) RobertM525 09:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

autonym
autonym is by far the more common term. endonym does not even occur in most dictionaries. I would suggest that the article use the more common terminology. – ishwar  (speak)  04:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Category:Exonym
Would it make sence to have a separate category called Exonym and to use that instead of Category:Endonyms as many of the terms (article names) found in the list are actually Exonyms and not Endonyms.

Controversial use of endonyms? "Roma": from which origin?
I'd like to discuss the possibility of controversial use of endonyms, rather than of exonyms. The ethnic group that often use the endonym "Romani" for themselves, or a variant thereof, are often labelled with an exonym ("Gypsy", "Gitano", etc) based on the incorrect supposition that they originated in Egypt. These exonyms are inappropriate and, as they are frequently applied prejoratively, it is understandable that an endonym is preferred. The endonym is said to derive from the word "rom"/"rrom", in the people's own language, meaning "husband", with "romni"/"rromni" meaning "wife". But the Wikipedia article for the Romani people says that "there are no historical proofs to clarify the etymology of these words". I hear Romanians complaining that they are being associated with this group because the names are similar, and claiming that this group's endonym came into being because its members often come from families that settled in Romania. Is this scenario, their endonym therefore ultimately derives from the some source as the Romanians' - from "Romans" - which is at least as inappropriate as the exonym for this group, considering the lack of any Latin connection. I have no axe to grind - I have never personally had any problems with either ethnic group. But can anybody throw light on the historical basis of using "Romani" as an endonym? Frankieparley 06:50, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Some 12-13 years after this section was posted, contrary to "lack of any Latin connection", as of this date the article Romanian language presently states "Romanian is a part of the Eastern Romance sub-branch of Romance languages, a linguistic group that evolved from several dialects of Vulgar Latin, which was separated from the Western Romance during the 5th–8th centuries." In the meantime, naturally, the article Romani people and its discussion of nomenclature appear to be much edited since 2007, with the quoted "no historical proofs" now removed. Milkunderwood (talk) 22:19, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Orthographic exonymy in languages with phonetic spelling: "Serbian"
As written, the article seems to suggest that Serbian is written in the Latin alphabet. My understanding is that Serbs prefer to write their language in the Cyrillic alphabet, while Croats use the Latin alphabet to write what, depending on one's ideology, is either the same language or a closely related one. In any event, should "Serbian" here be "Croatian," or should the section be clarified to note that Serbs use Cyrillic? --Mr. A. (talk) 22:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * While the Latin Alphabet is the official on in Croatia and Bosnia, in Serbia and Montenegro, both Latin and Cyrillic Alphabets are official. Latin-Serbian is almost indistinguishable from Bosnian of Croatian, with the exception of some German and Italian based words used in Croatian, Arabic and Turkish based words in Bosnian.  Nevertheless Serbian can be written in Latin, although Cyrillic is far more common in Serbia.

Chinese "exonyms"
Many Chinese endonyms have successfully become English exonyms, especially city and most province names in mainland China, following Hanyu Pinyin spelling, as the current standard romanisation in China, e.g. Beijing (北京 Běijīng), Guangdong (广东 Guǎngdōng) (province), Qingdao (青岛 Qīngdǎo), although older English exonyms are sometimes used in certain contexts - i.e. Peking (duck, opera, etc.), Canton, Tsintao, etc.

 * I'm not really happy with this paragraph. Guangdong is an exonym? Peking and Canton are, but Guangdong and Qingdao? --85.181.225.129 (talk) 15:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's the contrast Qingdao vs Tsintao, Guangdong vs Canton. Example of former exonyms, which have successfully become English endonyms. --Atitarev (talk) 09:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And English Beijing has already started to become a real English exonym. Many speakers now prefer Beizhing to Beijing (pronunication only), for whatever reason. Maybe hyperforeignization. --85.181.225.44 (talk) 19:24, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Many English-speakers also get the tones wrong, too. Or does the definition of 'exonym' disregard differences in pronunciation that are forced by differences in phonemic repertoire? (If so, most of the entries in every List of Framistani exonyms ought to be omitted.) —Tamfang (talk) 02:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd change become in the first line to replaced. —Tamfang (talk) 20:14, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Pronounciation and exonym
I've removed this statement in the intro:

''Some languages use the same spelling as the endonym but change the pronunciation, thus making it an exonym. The English and German pronunciations of Paris, for example, are different from the French one (where the s is silent in modern French), though it is spelled the same in all three languages. ''

I'd like to see a source on this if it was to be put back in the intro. While it is true that Paris is pronounced differently, most languages sharing the same orthography pronounce their letter differently. If the statement is to be taken at face value, couldn't we make the arguement that many toponyms in Scotland are exonyms when pronounced in American English, that most Latin American toponyms are exonyms in Castillian Spanish and vice versa? And is Japanese for New York, "Nyū Yōku" an exonym even though it follows standard transliteration practice and is the closest aproximation possible in Japanese? o (talk) 13:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

 * In older French, the s in Paris was not silent. Another example would be Praha. English Prague and German Prag conserve a g that used to be there in Czech. --85.181.225.44 (talk) 19:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Tags
The missing citation and example farm tags are very relevant. The article has three references, none of them to clearly reliable sources. This is much too few for that amount of text. Secondly most of the article consists of unsourced examples rather than scholarly explanations of the differences between endonyms and exonyms. The tags will have to remain in place untill these issues have been adressed. (for the record I didn't place the tags myself)·Maunus· ƛ · 22:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Newer, "polished" definitions of exonym and endonym by UN Working Group on Exonyms
One of the matters attended to by the working group was to polish the definitions of exonym and endonym. Not that we must or should use what anyone with the UN suggests for UN purposes, I include these here in an effort to help someone improve the article as the working group's definitions seem to me more accurate and far less awkward than what we currently have in the introduction.

Presumably, what is currently at http://www.zrc-sazu.si/ungegn/WGE/exonyms.htm are the new definitions:

Definitions agreed:
 * Endonym: Name of a geographical feature in an official or well-established language occurring in that area where the feature is located.
 * Exonym: Name used in a specific language for a geographical feature situated outside the area where that language is spoken, and differing in its form from the name used in an official or well-established language of that area where the geographical feature is located.

— RVJ (talk) 02:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out, Mr. RVJ. If there are UN definitions they should certainly take precedence. I would even quote them and cite the authority. Why let the editors do it when it has authoritatively been done? We are not pretending this is OUR work, we are using the authoritative works of society as a whole. Only the scholars get to contribute original works and they do it in their own books and journal articles. All we want to do is bring it to the general public. This article is going on my list but I may not get to it right away. It is in fact overwordy, often illogical, and lacks proper refs. If you can improve it (which should not be hard to do), go right ahead!Dave (talk) 12:48, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The UN description of exonym lacks an inclusion of personal names. Has it been too sparingly quoted, or is that a flaw in the UN's work? SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

"Humans" as an endonym
A section could be made about how some peoples name themselves "men" or "free men", marking the rest as "non-human" or "slaves". Examples are Franks, Roma people, Thai, Inuit. --Error (talk) 23:45, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Error, error. Many peoples call themselves some form of a term that originally meant "the people" with all the favorable implications that could be loaded on, such as "free", "kinsman", "countrymen" "our people" and so on. I do not believe there was originally any intent to mark others as non-free. Those are developments that happen when one people conquers another or holds captives or slaves from another. Then the big imaginations of the conquerors get going. It is customary I do believe for exploiters to denigrate the exploited, probably as part of some sort of natural conscience-salving. If there is anyone without a conscience we tag him/her as a genetic misfit and either lock him/her up for further study of execute him/her forthwith. It makes it a lot easier if that person can be shown to be subhuman. So to the 3rd reich the world was full of "swine", but why pick on them? The whole rest of the world does it too, including your culture, whatever that may be. We have all kinds of strange characters on our cultural stages depending on the circumstances. We don't want to become paranoid about this or exaggerate it or give it undue importance. I'm a free man not because anyone else whatever is a slave but because I assert my own freedom. America is the land of the free and the home of the brave not because anyone else is unfree or cowardly but because we choose to assert that value. Come on now, do you really think the writer of that national song wanted to underscore the unfreedom and unbravery that others might have? Similarly Deutschland ueber alles does not mean the Germans thought they were a superior race. It only meant you should put your country first. We don't want to be paranoid, Mr. error, we only want to be accurate and what you propose is not accurate. Be a good fellow and rethink it, will you? Thanks.Dave (talk) 12:42, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Fittingly, as I recall, "Deutsch" comes from a word denoting "the people", or in essence, "us". "German" comes from Latin and suggests people outside the empire, or in essence, "them". That's kind of how it works. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It's well-known in ethnology that self-designations of any kind of groups are commonly, if not usually, decidedly positive, even flattering, while designations of other groups are commonly pejorative. Therefore, the typical self-designation means something like "the original people" or even "the real people", or even something boastful (especially with warlike tribes), while terms given to outsiders, at least if they speak a clearly different language, tend to mean essentially something like "people who talk funny" or "stammerers". Insiders are perceived as perfectly normal and decent, foreigners as strange deviants with customs that are looked upon as suspect and inferior. (By the way, the "reclaiming" or reappropriation of pejorative exonyms is not a modern phenomenon, there are historical precedents such as the Geuzen.) Not wanting to delve into the whole "PC rewriting of history" discussion, but "primitive tribes" should not be romanticised. Of course, to give their ways as justification to indulge in racism yourself would be a severely flawed excuse. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:06, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Phonetically lacking
What is mainly wrong with this article, as I see it, is that it does not explain what is basic to the subject matter: that exonyms were created and then evolved due to a desire with a certain people that they should be able to communicate internally, in a reasonable manner, by using the phonetics of their own language even when talking about foreign places and persons (whose names they had heard). Examples: Gothenburg in English, for Swedish Göteborg, or Catherine in English, for Polish Katarzyna. SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:40, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

 * That explains many exonyms but not the most interesting ones. —Tamfang (talk) 04:05, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "Interesting" being a matter of taste rather than a science, as I hope we agree. I am extremely interested in phonetics, ever an increasingly essential factor in enabling us all to communicate accurately the more inter-cultural we get. Exonyms and their effective use are a very important part of all that. SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:29, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * there is a fine line between poor pronunciation, mispronunciation and exonym, and that line is a matter of opinion, not "science". So just stick closely to your sources and attribute all opinions to them.
 * the problem is that the notion of "exonym" is a synchronic one. Swizerland is surely an exonym, but it originates as a rendition of a 16th century endonym. Etc.
 * I would agree that "true" exonyms, and arguably the more interesting ones, are the ones not derived from endonyms with the same meaning. These will still often be derived from endonyms, just from ones with different scopes. Examples are legion. Walha from Volcae, a tribal endonym, but not applied to the Volcae, who are long gone. Same with "Greeks", "Alemans", etc. etc. The topic is difficult, and it requires diachronic insight, but the article is doomed to failed if people don't come to terms with the concept being synchronic and subject to evolution. --dab (𒁳) 17:42, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that the source of "Exonyms" is chiefly phonetic. Every word in any language is subject to the phonetic and even the alphabetic constraints of that language. And every place name is a word in some language.  Therefore, if you can even decide on the true "endoym" (Bruxelles or Brussel?), the name for that place is going to be an "exonym" as pronuonced and often written in every other language.  My edit should be restored, not as original research, but as common knowledge to all linguists: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Endonym_and_exonym&oldid=1189603947
 * -- Thomas Eccardt, adj prof Linguistics, City Tech, Brooklyn Agihard (talk) 19:02, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Agihard. The term original research has a specific meaning on Wikipedia: it is material that is unsourced and does not appear to be readily sourceable to a reliable source ie a scholarly or in other ways authoritative text. So I replaced your edit with text based on a specific source. My apologies if my use of wikispeak confused you. For the collaborative project of Wikipedia to function, all contributions should be backed up by external sources. (Imagine an online forum with anonymous posters all insisting they are expert - it wouldn't work). So on the one hand, while I'm afraid your real-world academic status in itself has to count for nothing, the knowledge of a subject's literature that experts have mean in practice they can contribute more and more effectively. So if you have a source for your additions, please go ahead and add more material, with citations.
 * With respect to the issue at hand, the best authority I have found for what is or isn't an exonym appears to be the United Nations Group of Experts of Geographical Names, Exonym Working Group. Brussel and Bruxelles are both considered endonyms because both French and Flemish are official languages. Names which result from standard transliteration are generally not considered exonyms either, although what counts as standard is also thorny. The sources I added for why exonyms develop seem to be good, and include the idea that pronunciation challenges are one of the sources. However, I'm not an expert in this area. Do you with your working knowledge of the area know of better sources? OsFish (talk) 05:06, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Albanian exonyms
Readers of this page may be interested in Articles for deletion/Albanian exonyms, relating to one of a number of similar lists that were previously discussed in 2007 at Articles for deletion/List of European exonyms.--Arxiloxos (talk) 18:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Athens
English and French still use the plural form of the name, as Greek 'officially' did until katharevousa was finally abandoned in the 1970s. Pamour (talk) 08:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Chinese transliteration
Chinese Language is not written in alphabets, but in Hanzi. When writing Chinese city names in English, one needs transliteration or romanisation, where more than one standards exist. Hanyu Pinyin is currently the most popular, because the "PRC" makes it standard and replaces standards used by the Republic of China Government. Hence it is inappropriate to say Peking (北京 using Chinese Postal Map Romanization, officially used by the ROC) is an English exonym but Beijing (北京 using Hanyu Pinyin, officially used by the "PRC") is a Chinese endonym; both should be classified into the same class. Unmistakable English exonyms of Chinese cities include Canton (廣州, Guangzhou), Port Arthur (旅順, Lüshunkou). --Jabo-er (talk) 06:51, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

, often laudatory or self-aggrandizing
Removed this just now from the lede. Please! Where do opinionated judgements like this come from? Let's not engage in near mud slinging w/o sources! --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:12, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

, often derogatory or offensive. ditto. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 23:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

 * LOL! Puh-leeze. That's Ethnology 101. Ask any expert. Humans are xenophobic and intensely loyal to their tribe/in-group.
 * Sorry mate, reality isn't politically correct and does not conform to your wishful thinking. Reality is, unfortunately, rife with racist attitudes and aggression, from hunter-gatherers to modern city-dwellers.
 * Learn to distinguish the way things should be from the way things are. The sooner you learn that lesson, the better.
 * Given that a general statement like this do not single out any specific group, I am at a loss to understand why you take offense at them. Do you seriously think that the observation that humans are, generally speaking, racist douchebags, and have been so throughout history, is racist douchebaggery itself?! An unflattering observation about the entirety of mankind mud-slinging?! Mate, you really need to get out more. Humans don't always act like scumbags, but these tribalistic tendencies are all too deeply ingrained. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 04:25, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with SergeWoodzing. This statement is quite true about endonyms of human groups, but doesn't apply to toponyms at all; and is much less certain about exonyms (what is offensive in exonyms as German, Alemán, Tudesco applied to people from Deustchland?). I remove the second one. --Pompilos (talk) 14:50, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

 * The edit is OK (the lede doesn't need to get into it, and "sometimes" is better than "often", because, as you point out with German/Aleman, many exonyms are not disparaging); but for the record, and as explained in the article section "Mutes and gabblers", there's nothing uncertain about the fact that some recurring themes in exonyms throughout human history include meanings such as "mutes/gabblers/babblers" (mumbo-jumbo nonsense-talking "bar-bar-bar" barbarians) and "savages/hicks/bumpkins", not to mention dark/swarthy/black, yellow/red, pale/sickly, and so on. It's part of anthropology to acknowledge the ways in which humans have often tended to be jerks. Quercus solaris (talk) 20:38, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Chinese<->English and Hanyu Pinyin
The part about Chinese place names was confusing to me. I think the old English names should be mentioned along with the new Hanyu pinyin names, not everyone knows that Canton is Guangdong. And the way the paragraph is structured, it is not clear if the Republic of China (Taiwan) has also made Hanyu Pinyin the standard in 1979 or not. It turns out it has done so, but only in 2008, and in practise nobody uses it for place names. So while "Beijing" has replaced "Peking" in the PRC, "Jinmen" has not yet replaced "Kinmen" in Taiwan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.6.39.147 (talk) 08:30, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Italian cities and football
Those cities mentioned are usually still called "Naples" and "Turin" in England, although the football team is usually called Napoli. Juventus are far more famous here than Torino, if you ask someone in England "which city are Juventus from" the reply will be "Turin". Of course this doesn't affect Milan, whose team officially uses the English name. It is also worth mentioning one obsolete English exonym that survives mainly as the name of a football team: River Plate.Walshie79 (talk) 00:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

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Huge chunks need to go
Unless requested sources are added in the next month or so, I will be deleting huge chunks of unsourced POV & conjecture here. Boxes look awful. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:10, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Derivation of English "Athens"
The English name "Athens" is derived from ancient Greek (not from modern Greek, as is misleadingly implied in the article). The plural "-s" ending reflects the fact that the Ancient Greek name was plural (while the modern Greek name is singular -- in ancient Greek, the singular form was the name of the goddess Athena, not of the city)... AnonMoos (talk) 12:53, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

List of exonyms for London
While many of the names for London are true exonyms (where the spelling in latin script is different), are the exonyms in Armenian, Persian and Vietnamese true exonyms rather than standard transcriptions? The Armenian rendered in latin script is "London".OsFish (talk) 01:45, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

 * I'm guessing it's a difference in pronunciation. /lɔn.dɔn/ is distinct from /lʌn.dən/ --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:42, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * But does that count as an exonym? Is Edinburgh an exonym if written by an American because they tend to say (excuse lack of IPA) Edinboro rather than Edinbra? OsFish (talk) 06:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Cisgender?
Cisgender/Cisgenderism is an Exonym. It was given to non-trans people by Trans people. Should it be mentioned here? Fishchaircan (talk) 09:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Groups historically originally named by their opponents include Quakers, UK Whigs and Tories, and Mitnagdim. It doesn't have much to do with "exonyms" as defined for the purposes of this article. AnonMoos (talk) 10:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Also, it was coined by a cisgender woman, and is used by cisgender people to describe themselves.OsFish (talk) 10:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Original research?
Tye original research template was added here, but I'm not sure where the concern is. Newystats (talk) 22:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Floater text when highlighted is confusing?
In the page Gitanos, the words endonym and exonym both link to this page. The 'floater' text you see when you hover over the word uses the same first sentence of this article for both words - this means the definition for 'endonym' is correct, but the definition for 'exonym' is wrong, as it's giving the endonym definition a second time. This seems like a Wikipedia-wide issue, but is there any way to fix it for this page specifically? (Apologies for any format issues, I'm a noob) 2600:6C50:7F:B4BC:9186:A98F:E498:8C4D (talk) 07:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

 * I'm really not sure what you mean. This is the page for both exonym and endonym. The floater text for both "exonym" and "endonym" on that page says "Endonym and Exonym". I can't see the problem. If there were separate sections on this page for exonym and endonym, we could redirect to the specific section, but there aren't. So the current situation looks OK. Have I misunderstood something? OsFish (talk) 10:14, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Endonym and exonym


text:
Toynbee

Toynbee is a surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Arnold Toynbee (1852–1883), British economic historian
 * Arnold Joseph Toynbee (1889–1975), British historian
 * Geoffrey Toynbee (1885–1914), English cricketer
 * Henry Toynbee (1819–1909), British merchant sailor and meteorologist
 * Jocelyn Toynbee (1897–1985), British archaeologist and art historian
 * Joseph Toynbee (1815–1866), British physician, pioneer of otolaryngology
 * Matthew Toynbee (born 1956), New Zealand cricketer
 * Paget Toynbee (1855–1932), British Dante scholar
 * Philip Toynbee (1916–1981), British writer
 * Polly Toynbee (born 1946), British journalist and writer

title: Toynbee


text:
Talk:Apple Valley, Minnesota

Discussion
"Apple Valley is named after the town of Apple Valley, California." I find various reports on this, but the official town web page appears to indicate otherwise. For now I've removed the reference. -- Kaszeta 22:05, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Apple Valley was in fact named after the California town by Orrin Thompson, who built one of the first housing developments in the city. I will find the source to this. I had to do a speach on the history of Apple Valley and I remember reading it somewhere. Jayann 03:18, 26 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Apple Valley High has one of the strongest special education programs in the state. strickjh2005 5-18-06

I'm from Minnesota, and I found it funny how that one foreign guy snuck into the high school in Apple Valley. Amaas120 00:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I knew him, I felt sorry for him Showers 03:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Template for a U.S. City
For those who plan on editing and expanding this article, please follow the Template for a U.S. City. Thanks!--Daveswagon 09:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Relevance
This line "Apple Valley is located in Minnesota's 2nd congressional district, represented by John Kline, a right-wing Republican, scoring only 2.8% progressive on a range of issues. [1]" doesn't seem especially relevant. I can see the need for putting in the name of the Representative, but beyond that is just seems like politicking.--BWes 05:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This replaced an unreferenced assertion that someone had written, that said the city is politically conservative. Rather than just deleting the statement, I looked for evidence supporting or contradicting it.  Although the reference used has a liberal bias, sources with conservative bias' essentially agree with respect to the congressman's record.  I believe the political leaning of the community is relevant, but I'm open to alternative ways to express that.  Incidentally, the incumbent State Senators and Representatives from Apple Valley are also quite conservative.  Perhaps they should also be mentioned, along with a number on a left-right scale.  Appraiser 00:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Using a reference from an activist group is probably not a good idea. The "rating" means nothing outside of the activist group's context. Saying whether a town happens to be "left" or "right" or "moderate" is the probably as far as one should go, in my opinion. Of course, finding a source for that isn't easy. --Sable232 23:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually finding biased sources from either persuasion is easy. The hard part is finding evaluations from unbiased sources.  Here's a conservative group that ranks Kline as 100 (their highest rating)  I'm also working on the same idea here: Minnesota Congressional Districts. Appraiser 00:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Source of the name Apple Valley
I reworded the section under Trivia. According to the city's website, Orrin Thompson named several of his plats Apple Valley and planted apple trees at each home. Then in 1968, residents voted to incorporate as the village of Apple Valley. So, the name does come from development in the 1960s, when most of the population (at that time) had moved into the community. But I think the phrase "marketing ploy" is unnecessarily cynical. Appraiser 14:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Metro population
The infobox currently notes the metro population of Apple Valley as being 2,968,805. Is that correct? Black Falcon (Talk) 22:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: It was added with this edit. - jc37 03:22, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding the diff! It allowed me to leave a note on the editor's talk page.
 * After looking at some other articles, I'm convinced it must be a typo or copy-pasting error of some type, since the population of Dakota County is noted as being just over 350 thousand and the total population of Minnesota is approximately 5 million. Black Falcon (Talk) 05:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The population shown as of April 1, 2006 for the "Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI" area is correct (http://www.census.gov/population/www/estimates/CBSA-est2006-annual.html census excel file). I know they're out of date, but I figured we'd update all the cities after the 2010 census, rather than spend a lot of time updating after each estimate.--Appraiser (talk) 14:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, OK. I didn't imagine that the "metro population" estimate for Apple Valley included such a large area. Thanks for clarifying, Black Falcon (Talk) 14:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Apple Valley, Minnesota


text:
Cris Alexander

Cris Alexander (born Allen Smith, January 14, 1920 – March 7, 2012) was an American actor, singer, dancer, designer, and photographer.

Early life and education
Cris Alexander was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in 1920. He began using the name Christopher, which he thought more distinguished, in his teens. On the advice of a spiritualist, he removed the "h" and went by Cris from then on.

Alexander attended the University of Oklahoma while working as a radio announcer in Oklahoma City. He moved to New York City in 1938 to study at the Feagin School of Dramatic Art.

Acting
Alexander was cast as Chip, a naive sailor, in the original Broadway cast of Leonard Bernstein's On the Town in 1944. He performed the song "Come Up to My Place" in a duet with Nancy Walker in the role of Hildy. He returned to Broadway in 1946 in Present Laughter opposite Clifton Webb.

In 1953, Alexander was cast in Wonderful Town, another Bernstein musical, with Rosalind Russell. He played drugstore manager Frank Lippencott, performing the comic song "Conversation Piece." Alexander stayed with the musical for its entire run. He moved next into performances for Mame, again with Russell. He played store manager Mr. Loomis, a role he repeated in the 1958 film version titled Auntie Mame.

Alexander's last acting role was in Lanford Wilson's 1966 play The Madness of Lady Bright. He continued to be involved in theatrical productions and created projection slides for the 1970 production of Richard Rodgers's Two by Two.

Photography
Alexander also had a career as a photographer, and opened a photo studio in the late 1930s when he first moved to New York City. He was noted for his portraits of celebrities and performers, many of whom were his personal friends. He worked as chief photographer at Andy Warhol's Interview magazine, and as the official photographer for the New York City Ballet.

He contributed hundreds of original and altered photographs to two of Patrick Dennis's best selling books. Little Me, a mock biography documenting the life of fictional actress Belle Poitrine, features more than 150 of Alexander's photographs. It featured photos of his partner Shaun O'Brien, and would become a camp classic. Alexander also wrote the novel's preface. Dennis's First Lady: My Thirty Days at the White House told the story of Martha Dinwiddie Butterfield, wife of a fictional robber baron president.

Personal life
Alexander became involved with New York City Ballet dancer Shaun O'Brien in the 1940s, beginning a relationship that would last nearly 60 years. The couple retired to upstate New York in 1993, and married in 2011 when same-sex marriage became legal in New York State. Cris Alexander died in Saratoga Springs in 2012.

Film roles

 * The Littlest Angel (1969) – Raphael
 * Auntie Mame (1958) – Mr. Loomis
 * Wonderful Town (1958) TV – Frank Lippencott

title: Cris Alexander


text:
Sultan Mosque

Sultan Mosque or Masjid Sultan is a mosque located at Muscat Street and North Bridge Road within the Kampong Glam precinct of the district of Rochor in Singapore. It was named after Sultan Hussain Shah. The mosque was inaugurated on 27 December 1936. In 1975, it was designated a national monument.

History
The mosque was two-thirds complete and was formally opened on 27 December 1929. The mosque was fully completed in 1932.

The first known installation of a microphone–loudspeaker set occurred in 1936 in the mosque; it was reported that the summons to prayer could 'carry more than a mile'. Some mosque attendees were sceptical of the new electric system, however most believed it was necessary to empower the muezzin's voice to transcend a modern city's noises.

The Sultan Mosque has stayed essentially unchanged since it was built, with only repairs carried out to the main hall in 1968 and an annex added in 1993. It was gazetted as a national monument on 8 March 1975.

The mosque is managed by its own board of trustees and management board.

Transportation
The mosque is accessible from Bugis MRT station and Jalan Besar MRT station.

title: Sultan Mosque


text:
User talk:Jpramas

BCorr | Брайен 22:09, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Excellent research
You should put it back in the main article. I would do it, but you should do so you get the credit. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 08:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome
Hello, Jpramas, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that your commented on Jason Pramas, and so you may wish to consult Wikipedia's policy on reducing the chances of any appearance of possible conflict of interests, particularly its section on editing a biography about yourself.

In the future, you might like to draft your article before submission, then ask me or any other editor to proofread it. To start creating a draft article, just click your user name at the top of the screen when you are logged in, and edit that page as you would any other. If the page you created has already been deleted from Wikipedia, but you want to save the content from it to use for that draft, don't hesitate to ask anyone from this list and they will copy it to your user page.

If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! You can also just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 07:51, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
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WP WikiProjects and editing
P.S. Jason, as a professional editor, you would be especially welcome at the WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. You may also consider the WikiProjects associated with the portals on labor, socialism, etc.

Sincerely, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 08:06, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

thanks much for pointing that out, Kiefer ... between my MFA Visual Arts program at Art Institute of Boston (which, btw, is one proof that I am, in fact, a photographer ... lol) and running Open Media Boston, plus assorted "side" projects like the Boston media reform network, I'm pretty swamped right now ... however this experience is inspiring me to seek out Boston area academics to start documenting people and institutions on the Boston left here on Wikipedia ... and, let me also say that I appreciate your spending time on my bio article ... my sharpness about the recent deletion of my article is general and not specific, if you know what I mean ... and I've certainly learned my lesson about violating NPOV and BLP so directly ... I do blame myself for not simply seeing to it that qualified people did some work on the article in the past, rather than my just casually neatening it up periodically ... but I was certainly annoyed by the deletion - which I thought was unjust ... cheers, Jason jpramas (talk) 14:11, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Hi Jason!

 * I am glad that you accepted my efforts as (fallible but) good faith. Frankly, I was concerned that my recently having spent more time writing an article on Tom Kahn than on making minor improvements to Frank Llewellyn would lead to questions of political bias ....

 * I am glad that you reviewed the BLP and COI policies and agreed with their good sense. Your editing history of Jason Pramas seems to have been almost entirely limited to correction of English errors or objective facts, and such minor edits are blessed by WP policy.

 * If there is ever a problem with your biography, feel free to alert me or even e-mail me. You can of course alert the BLP project or any relevant project also. In case of libelous or slanderous material, you can directly delete material, per BLP; such actions should probably also be accompanied by a notification of the BLP project, who can help with deleting improper material also from article history. In general, the WP community takes the concerns of living subjects very seriously, although some very public figures like Francis Fox Piven have received more WP coverage than they desire.

 * Your organizing a Boston-left project would be worthwhile. There was an article in Harper's or in the Atlantic Monthly some 10-15 years ago about a cab driver's retirement from the Boston DSA, which might be a useful source. Whether it would establish notability of the Boston DSA, I cannot say, but it at least gave an impressionistic account of one local's activities and personalities, which is probably relevant to the DSA article.

 * Best regards, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 14:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jpramas