text:
Talk:Flag of Kurdistan

Designers of this Flag
Although the elements of this flag are historic and have been around for a long time, in its modern measurements, description and choice of the shades of colors, number of sun rays and the literature that goes with it, two persons are to be solely credited: Dr. Mehrdad M. R. Izady for writing the description, choosing the shades, and numbering the rays of the sun disk. He is the historian and the folklorist. Then is Dr. Eliasi, who as an engineer, provided the measurements and proportions of the flag, ascertained the international color codes, and provided the technical aspects of the flag. This was all done on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Kurdish Republic of Mahabad. No other person was involved. So, these two scholars ought to be lauded for their efforts to revive and standardize the "Sunny Flag", although no Kurd seem to be concerned about this. In America, Betsy Ross is routinely celebrated for having tailored the first American flag. Why the Kurds are so forgetful? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.244.22.233 (talk) 17:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * This is the first time I've heard of them. Do you have a source for this? ~ Zirguezi 23:08, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Status
It is not a country how can it be a national flag? In 1946 there was a kurdish state? thats news to me. -- Cat out 23:05, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This is really serious. Wikipedia should not become a medium for deliberately and intentionally spreading falsehoods which only serve certain minority political groups among the Kurds. The entire idea of this flag is nonsense. It is not recognized anywhere in the world, nor has it any legal status. It is a transformation of the Iranian flag (flipped upside down and the lion removed from from before the sun). This is more than obvious. This page absolutely has no place whatsoever on a neutral wiki server. -- unsigned comment left by 130.161.44.115

 * Just because it's a matter of discussion doesn't mean it should not be on Wikipedia. Furthermore, a flag doesn't have to have legal status to be interesting, notable, or worthy of an article; for example, a number of French territories have unofficial flags with no legal status whatsoever, yet they're still on Wikipedia. And thirdly, if you want to discuss changes to this article, I'd suggest you get a user account. — [[Image:Flag of Austria.svg|15px]] ナイトスタリオン ㇳ–ㇰ — 10:09, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

How people can say that the lands mentioned are the homeland of Kurds. All of the mentioned region was defended with the blood of Turkish soldiers. I have to defend my 10,000 years of history so if you will only consider the data entered by Kurd here, it will be hard to think about the neutral status of Wikipedia. When they write about an imaginery indipendence war, you consider their data as valid but when I mention the reality that there were no legal region of Kurds or even not a single country in the history releated to Kurds, you consider my data as invalid. You have to explain me why you behave like this or I will see you as a supporter of terrorism. Deliogul 22:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Read my comment below. No one ever said Kurdistan is a country, so it's pointless to say that it isn't. — Khoikhoi 20:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Why there is a difference between the flag here and the flag in the article of Republic of Mahabad ? --Japan01 (talk) 15:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

August 2015- The flag is representative of a theorized state and is widely used in the region. It is also the flag of several Kurd military groups who defend the region. Whether you think Kurdistan is a country or not, it is politically relevant. The Taiwanese flag is controversial, but it has a wikipedia page. Settle down, the flag stays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.119.208.252 (talk) 00:49, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Answer
Many non-state nations have flags of their own, Palestinians, for example. The Kurdish Republic at Mahabad carried two flags: the State flag (this one) and the government's flag, as did and still do many countries around the world. There is nothing unusual about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:C686:B00:223:32FF:FE9A:1153 (talk) 18:20, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

from Vfd
On 19 Feb 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Flag of Kurdistan for a record of the discussion.

Is this really a stub?
Should the stub be removed from this page?

 * I don't think three sentences makes an article. The stub message is there to encourage people to expand the article.Iota 18:49, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

POV
Removing POV tag. The main objection seems to be that it exists; it might be a POV flag, but the article on the flag does not seem to be.--The Minister of War 05:57, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Kurdish Flag is not based on the Iranian flag
The Kurdish flag is similar to the flags of Hungary, Tajikistan, Ghana, Ethiopia, Bolivia and Iran. However, it isnot based on the Iranian one. (For a list these flags see ). The yellow sun in the center of the flag, is the distinct character of the Kurdish Flag, which cannot be found in other flags.Heja Helweda 06:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Banned
''The distinctive red, yellow and green of the Kurdish flag is banned in Turkey, indeed at the height of the conflict in Batman, one of the largest towns in the Kurdish area had the amber light of the traffic lights removed as the red, amber and green was seen as symbolizing the Kurdish struggle! The Turkish flag however, was flying everywhere, some of the flags so big they covered the fronts of entire buildings. Also written everywhere above the streets, in very large letters was the slogan, ‘How happy is he who calls himself a Turk?’ - Maybe, but what about the Kurds?”''

According to this report, the Kurdish flag is banned in Turkey. Is this the case? - FrancisTyers 19:53, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I do think it is. I don't think the government of Turkey likes the idea of an independant Kurdish state.. I can't confirm that it is banned, but I definately don't believe it would be popular to be put it up over there! --Kash 22:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I for one am warry of the citation. Both sources are less than neutral. I do not believe the flag itself is banned. I however believe raising it is considered a "civil-disturbance" which is also inconclusive since flag is generaly raised during civil disturbances already in progress. -- Cat out 16:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It is banned, personal experience lol

 * It is in deed banned in Turkey. But also Iran and Syria —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.3.24 (talk) 23:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

To clear things up
I don't see anywhere in the article that it says "Kurdistan is a country". But nor is Palestine; and it has its own flag. All 50 states of US have their own flags, as do federal states in India, Brazil, Germany.......  So what bothers this Turkish guy is the fact that a third of Turkey is Kurdish and fast increasing in proportions. Kurds are here to stay, as they were thousands of years before, anyone had heard of the Turk.

I don't know anyone who thinks it is, either. It's a geographic region, as well as a cultural one, which makes it a notable term. It's only a political region in Iraq, but not in Turkey, Syria, and Iran, and it shouldn't be made on on Wikipedia. However, adding "Kurdistan is not a country" is pointless. — Khoikhoi 22:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Flag of Antarctica has been around for a while I doubt this article is going anywhere.Geni 13:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Name and the 21 rays
The name of the flag should be included in this artigle Allay Rengín/Ala Rengîn (the colored banner). This name can be compared to the brittish and american flags, Union Jack and Stars and Stripes.

About the 21 rays, the number 21 is the holy number of the Yazdani religion(s). Namely Alevi, Yarsani and Yezidi/Yazidi. But the article only links to one of the named branches of the Yazdani religion.

Colors & Pattern
The article discusses the significance of the Sun, but it doesn't mention the colors and their positioning. This is odd, considering most of the other flags explain the significance of such things. I think that it should be added. It looks like Iran's, but with reverse order. An explanation is called for. The Behnam 03:59, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * They are similar. It may have some connections with Iranian flag, as both Kurds and Persians are related to eachother, themselves. The answer of this question may be found in Xoybun documents. Asoyrun 21:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

 * The colors stand for Red: The blood and sacrifice of the Kurdish people. White: Peace. Green: Nature (which I guess must mostly refer to the mountains, but still nature). I don't think there is a direct linkt between the kurdish flag and the iranian. it could today perhaps be considered a pan-aryan coloring as the red,green and black of the pan-arabian colors. but this is i believe a later construction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.3.24 (talk) 22:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

The other flag

 * The flag with the star-like sun has long been favored and encouraged by Kurdish scholars, but Barzani does not allow to adopt it, saying the current flag of Kurdistan  is a historic flag for Kurdish movement:(
 * Even Mam Jalal has prefered it to the current flag! Henisk 04:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

 * What scholars do you reffer to? The "star-like sun" flag is the former flag of Iraq, it has never been a flag for Kurdistan. The only link to the Kurds is the sun. I don't think the old Iraqi flag is more popular than the current Alla Rengín in the kurdish publics mind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.3.24 (talk) 22:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

 * The 1959-1963 flag of Iraq is favored with respect to the 1963-2008 flags of Iraq... AnonMoos (talk) 23:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes the 1959-1963 flag of Iraq is favoured before the 1963-2008 flag of Iraq, not as a Kurdish flag but as the flag of the republic of Iraq. Allay Rengín is still the most popular flag and most extensively used and generally accepted by the Kurds. It would also be quite strange to use the 1959-1963 flag of Iraq as it still carries the pan-arabic colours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.233.227.69 (talk) 00:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Flag of KURDSTAN, NOT "Kurdish flag"
It's wrong to name the Kurdistani flag as "Kurdish flag". It is the flag of KURDISTAN, and the flag of the region of KURDISTAN in Iraq and also for the major Kurdistan (which is not independent yet). So the flag of Kurdistan (not the "Kurdish flag") refers to the geographic region of KURDISTAN which is populated by Kurds (muslims [shia/sunni], yezidi Kurds, shabak Kurds, Kakayi Kurds),and also populated by other ethnic and religious groups, such as Turkmens, Syrianics/Keldans/Assyrians/armenians, even Arabs/Turks/persian. So the flag is called "The flag of KURDISTAN", NOT "The Kurdish flag", although the name "kurdish flag" refers to an ethnic name which is far from the reality. In the Constitution of Kurdistan Regional Government (which is on its way), it is determined that the Kurdistan Region (even greater Kurdistan)is an GEOGRAPHIC region, NOT ethnic region. That is that this flag is called The Flag of KURDISTAN, NOT "The Kurdish flag". The enemies of Kurdistan who have control of other parts of Kurdistan want to name the flag of Kurdistan as "kurdish flag", to try to wipe the rich history of Kurdistan which exists in more than 4000 years, from the Medes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.151.43.53 (talk) 15:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Dünya üzerinde Kürdistan diye bi ülke yoktur. O yüzden bu bayrağın adı Kürdistan bayrağı değil. Kürtlerin bayrağıdır. (Bir TÜRK) There isn't a country which name is Kurdistan in the World. So this flag's name isn't Kurdistan Flag. It is Kurdish flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.174.16.209 (talk) 16:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

flags of Turkish Kurdistan?
I'm seeing some different flags in news coverage of political issues regarding Turkish Kurdistan, but I am unable to find reference on them. If anyone knows more about these, should it be added here, or possibly in a separate article? http://img.timeinc.net/time/quotes/2009/05/0526_akkaya.jpg http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2007-w44/img.49801_t.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.245.181 (talk) 15:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

 * See http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/FLAGS/krd%7Dpkk.html (scroll down to "Variant 4") and http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/FLAGS/krd-kp.html (scroll down to Related (?) flags"). AnonMoos (talk) 18:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Demokratik Toplum Partisi.png
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Some flags
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/krd_slvd.html is not reliable source. For example, We know that normal Kurdish flags were used in the Republic of Ararat. We need other sources. Probably we must remove some flags from Commons. Takabeg (talk) 07:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * How is it not a reliable source? It might not get everything right but it does list it's own sources for the flag. I think it's pretty reliable. ~ Zirguezi 16:33, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Movement for Change
The "flag" of the Movement for Change keeps getting added to the article. I don't think it belongs here. First of it's not a flag, it's a logo. The logo might get used on flags a lot but that doesn't make it an official flag. 2nd This flag has no resemblance or reference tot the Kurdish flag other than being Kurdish. All the other flags use at least one of the three Kurdish colours and usually have a logo in the middle which is an obvious reference to the sun in the Kurdish flag. If we started listing every single flag here just because they are Kurdish we might as well list the entire Category:Kurdish flags here which is not something we want. We should only list flags that are inspired or have an obvious reference to the Kurdish flag. ~ Zirguezi 07:02, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The title says "Kurdish political flags". The Gorran flag is no more or less of a "logo" than the PUK or DTP flags - only you seem to not be a big fan of the color blue. I don't know where you're writing from, but here in Kurdistan, the Gorran flag is immediately recognizable as a "Kurdish political flag". Maybe if you want to alter to title to something like "Flags influenced by the Kurdish nationalist colors", then you would have a case. 109.127.86.5 (talk) 11:26, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The title of the paragraph is indeed Kurdish Political Flags but the paragraph itself is located on the page of the flag of Kurdistan and as such has to be related to flag of Kurdistan. The other flags are related to the flag of Kurdistan because they all use at least one of the colours(Red, Yellow or Green) and they all have a round/circle shaped logo/symbol which is an obvious reference to the sun on the Kurdish flag. The Movement for Change flag doesn't use one of the 3 colours, it doesn't have a round/circle logo/symbol. It might be a political flag but there here is zero reference to the flag being inspired or related to the flag of Kurdistan. As such I don't think it should be listed here. About the DTP "flag" it also looks more like a logo than a flag and I'd have removed it had it not been for the colours and logo. ~ Zirguezi 23:05, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Kurdish political flags
I think we'd better remove the section: Kurdish Political Flags. Because they are irrelevant to Alaya Kurdistanê. Regards. Takabeg (talk) 11:38, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree some of the flags look really similar and I doubt anyone looking for info on the flag of Kurdistan would be interested in flags of Kurdish political parties and if they are they can just follow the link to Commons. ~ Zirguezi 23:10, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There doesn't seem to be any objection so I removed the section. ~ Zirguezi 14:39, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Split
Propose to split this article to Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan and Flag of Syrian Kurdistan. The reasoning is emergence of separate entity of Syrian Kurdistan in 2012, which urges us to specify whom the flag belongs to.GreyShark (dibra) 19:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

There isn't a single quotable reference on which this article is based, and you are suggesting a split? If we remove the unreferenced stuff, there is nothing left to split. This is a flag which has supposedly been in use for 100 years representing 30 million people, and we haven't been able to come up with one single measly reference about it other than random google results? --dab (𒁳) 13:50, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
 * @Greyshark09: We've had a discussion about whether this flag is the "flag of all Kurds". See Talk:Kurds/Archive_15. I don't see a reason why this should change now.
 * @Dbachmann :I've added a lot of sources to this article now. Please note that a Google book/scholar search is a legitimate source and much more reliable than "random google results" ~ Zirguezi 23:01, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Article cleanup
This article was very cluttered and filled with double info and unsourced claims. I've attempted to make it a bit better.
 * I've moved several blocks of text and put them under headings History and Symbolism
 * I've removed the large amounts of text in the infobox. If people want more info they can read the article.
 * I've added several sources to back up claims made in this article. We now have more than enough sources to establish the existence and use of this flag. ~ Zirguezi 22:59, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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, There is not a unique flag for Kurdish areas
There is not a uique flag for Kurdish areas and the current name should be changed to the "Flags used by Kurds" instead. In Turkish and Syrian Kurdish areas, the flag is completely different from the introduced flag. The intrdced flag is for Iraqi Kurdistan region. Please bring your reasoning if you do not agree. SHADEGAN (talk) 15:14, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reliable source for your claim? Please distinguish the Kurdish flag from party flags. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * ,There is not a uique flag for Kurdish areas and the current name should be changed to the "Flags used by Kurds" instead. In Turkish and Syrian Kurdish areas, the flag is completely different from the introduced flag. The introdced flag is for Iraqi Kurdistan region. Please bring your reasoning if you do not agree and stop reverting baselesslySHADEGAN (talk) 15:21, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * source for that claim? --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 15:22, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

This is what I am dealing with. Just baseless claims for his POV-push. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 15:27, 1 June 2019 (UTC) -- I think you should both emphasize on presenting what constitutes scholarly and mainstream consensus regarding this. El_C 16:09, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello all. Please note that this issue has been brought up before and also resolved at here, where reliable sources are given which have since been added to this article. You are welcome to open up the discussion again if you think you have new information to add, but please provide reliable sources so this doesn't turn into a he said/she said competition. ~ Zirguezi 17:43, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , As an Iranic people, the section [] is based on similar colours in areas with dominant Iranic culture and origin. The content theme is about this issue, please let it be in it's contents.SHADEGAN (talk) 03:00, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You are nothing but disruptive. Why did you remove the information about the Tev-Dem flag and the chronology section --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 09:04, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Moves
No moves without a proper move request, please. I have moved the page back to the status quo ante (procedural) and move protected it just to discourage even the temptation of a move war. Please go through the proper channels if you wish to see this article retitled — certainly, using the move as an instrument in an ongoing edit conflict is inappropriate. El_C 16:24, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'd like to request all users to discuss their disputes here before resorting to editing. Most of the issues brought up in the recent 'edit wars' have been discussed at length on this talkpage. Users that have new information regarding these issues are encouraged to open up a new section here. I'd like to advise everyone to read this previouos discussion too. ~ Zirguezi 17:33, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 1 June 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/ c 19:06, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Flag of Kurdistan → Flags used by Kurds – The current name is very ambiguous and it is not pervasive. There are different flags used in sveral part of nowaday Kurdish-inhabited areas (Iraqi Kurdistan, Syrian Kurdistan, Turkish Kurdistan etc. Due to nationalism background the main content of the paper is focused on the flag used by Iraqi Kurdistan region. It is completely evident that the name is not logic.We have a live page in wikipefia Rojava, please see these links too and National symbols of the Kurds SHADEGAN (talk) 18:08, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I Support the idea of moving the article to Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan and write a new article about Flags used by Kurds, Kurdish Flags or Flags used by Kurdish states... maybe we can find a name for the new article together. I would also like to invite spoongedragon to the discussion. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 18:35, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose. I really wish you would discuss this in the two open sections above before starting a request to move.
 * 1. I disagree with the name being 'ambiguous'. I think it is very clear and users who would like to know more about Kurdistan can simply click the blue link to get a better understanding. Academic sources also seem to agree on the 'Flag of Kurdistan' and what it represents. See:
 * The Kurdish flag has particular significance for this stateless nation. It was first hoisted to mark an independent Kurdistan(...) Since then, this red, white and green banner has been a rallying sign for all Kurds and a symbol of Kurdish national identity. ~ Dr Alex Danilovich[]
 * The flag for the Kurds represents their nationality and it functions as an important symbol for Kurdistanyati ~ Mahir A. Aziz []
 * You can call this place Kurdistan (…) only the Kurdistan flag flies ~ Iraq : briefings and hearing
 * and the Peshmarga general gave Davidson a Kurdistan flag ~ Charles M. Grist
 * 2. You have not give a source to backup your claim. You've linked to several pages and articles that show what I presume to be be Syrian Kurds using the flag of Rojava. However this does not backup your claim as nowhere is it claimed that flag of Rojava is suppose to be used IN THE PLACE of the flag of Kurdistan. It is perfectly possible for Rojava to use a flag for Syrian Kurdistan, while also using the flag of Kurdistan for the whole of the Kurdistan region. These two flags are not mutually exclusive. It is on par with England using the Flag of England while also flying the Union Jack.
 * 3. Iraqi Kurdistan using this flag does not invalidate the argument that it represents or is used by all Kurds.
 * 4. If you still think you have a point here and can back it up you are welcome to create a 'Disputed' section on this article, but you need sources for this. In either case, moving this article solves nothing.
 * 5. If you think this article is not written from a NPOV you are welcome to change it, as long as you can give sources to backup your claims. This is also not solved by moving the article.
 * ~ Zirguezi 18:37, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Support, I think it is better for the content of the page. There are to many flags used by Kurds. — Coron Arol (talk) 23:13, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Source for your claim? --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 00:20, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Kurdistan as a official country does not exist. Only the autonomous region called „Kurdistan Regional Government“ (KRG) or simply „Iraqi Kurdistan“ in northern Iraq uses this flag officially. The other Kurds in Turkey, Iran and Syria don’t uses this flag because it is forbidden in this countries. There are official flags of the countries Turkey, Iran and Syria. The page should be named „Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan“ or „Flag of the Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq“ or it should be moved to „Flags used by Kurds“. Only Kurdish Nationalists want this flag to use in other countries which are not officially part of Kurdistan because Kurdistan is a term used by Kurds to call their historically settlement areas and not a official country. — Coron Arol (talk) 01:41, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Again please provide a source for these claims. The arguments you have given have already been discussed. Iraqi Kurdistan using this flag does not mean that is does not represent Kurds from outside that region. The academic sources provided make no distinction between an Iraqi Kurdistan flag and a Kurdistan Flag. They recognize it as "The flag of Kurdistan" "for all Kurds". The flag itself predates the Autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan. The argument that it is not an official flag of Syrian/Iranian/Turkish Kurdistan is valid because 1. The flag is banned in those countries so obviously you'll see it being used less and 2. Those countries don't have autonomous regions that can declare this flag to be 'official'. But just because there is no official declaration from an autonomous body claiming this flag to be their flag does not mean that is does not represent all Kurds or is called the flag of Kurdistan. ~ Zirguezi 09:04, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Just seen your posts. And all about the same Kurdish content as Ahmedo Semsuri.  And then you answer me after I answered Ahmedo.  How should we know that you are not using two accounts here? — Coron Arol (talk) 10:14, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose - The flag was adopted as the official flag of Kurdistan in 1946. A source claiming it isn't would be great. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 00:20, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

 * (Comment)Well Rudaw is usually not a great source but here I have one which at least we can read online. And after some research I found it was rather an informative article. So here an article from Rudaw about the History of the current Flag that according to this article only in 1999 was adopted as the official Flag. The Flag from 1927 was a different Flag and for a state with a different name (Paradise Chronicle (talk) 06:35, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * There is not an internationally accepted Kurdistan state and official identity. In spite of different used flags like Rojava flag and Iraqi Kurdistan region flag, the page has introduced a flag for all Kurdish areas in different countries. This is completely a modeof PROPAGANDA to express independent wishes and desires of some groups. Desires and wishes must not oveshadow the sciebntific databases.SHADEGAN (talk) 10:50, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Only sovereign states can have official flags? Do you have a source for that? --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

I've also found this which clearly shows on the books that flag been used outside of Iraq as the official flag of Kurdistan. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * (@Paradise Chronicle)That is one news outlet (and not a reliable one at that) vs all the academic sources that have been provided here. I don't see the arguments you have provided back in the source. The only reference to adaptation is "The parliament of the the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) adopted this to be the official and stadard presentation of the flag in all aspects in 1999." As discussed above: Iraqi Kurdistan using this flag does not invalidate the argument that it represents or is used by all Kurds. In fact the source you have provided claims the opposite: "Alaya Rengin, or “The Colorful Flag” with a sun shining into bands of red, white and green was first used by Kurds in Turkey in the 1920s, he explained, referencing the flag used by the Republic of Ararat, led by the Xoybuns in their rebellion." i.e. this flag was used by Kurds in Turkey, then standardized in 1999.
 * Also the source link to another source that also confirms that this flag is in fact the flag of Kurdistan: http://kurdistanica.com/flag-of-kurdistan/ : "Following these historic background, the National Flag is widely adopted in Kurdistan and has been set aloft by various Kurdish movements and entities in all sectors of the land." and "The flag was aloft when Dersim was immolated in 1938". So at best we have a new fact to add to this article. ~ Zirguezi 19:39, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Move to "Kurdish flag" for consistency with other ethnic flags, Assyrian flag, Aramean-Syriac flag, Métis flag, Pan-African flag, Coptic flag, et cetera. I would also propose having a separate page for the flags of the Kurdistan Region of Iraq/Kurdistan Regional Government, though there may not be enough information for an independent article. -Thespündragon 16:48, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * 1. I can't speak for the other flags but I don't see how they are related to this flag.
 * 2. We have already established that this flag is known as the Flag of Kurdistan. Ignoring all the academic sources and changing it's name for the sake of consistency would be nonsensical. Per WP:NCUE: The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources.
 * 3. The fact that we would need an article about Kurdish Flag and Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan, which would both feature the same flag kinda proves the point that this flag is in fact the Flag of Kurdistan and splitting it up will not solve anything. For example we don't change Flag of United States to Stars and Stripes flag just because Flag of the United Kingdom is also known as Union Jack. Rather we use their names as used in reliable literature ~ Zirguezi 19:39, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I apologise, I did not take a good enough look at our sources. I am changing my opinion to Oppose move, per reasons said above. -Thespündragon 23:08, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Well I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do very much agree with a lot of what Zirguezi wrote. Yes it is called colorful flag, but the rays of the sun looked very different in the different flags. Denmark and Switzerland both have a white cross on red ground, but the cross has different sizes, and the flag is of different states, the flags of Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela have the same colors and without their coats of arms they look identical. These are three neighboring states where Spanish is spoken who have different coats of arms. The sun in the different flags depicted here also had different sizes and were raised in different times and in territories far apart. Calling the flag designed by Izady the sole flag of Kurdistan I do not see as correct. But We could call it the Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan. The part of the history of this flag could elaborate on Xoybun and Ararat and Mahabad. And an other article should be written for the other flags. Maybe Kurdish colors could be one? Look at PanSlavic Colors as a reverence. With the best regards. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 04:49, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * the Flag of Kurdistan (like many other flags) have changed over time. See Flag of Albania, Flag of Romania and Flag of Croatia. It would be misleading to call the current lag "Flag of Iraqi Kurdistan", since its used in all parts of Kurdistan (especially by nationalist parties) --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 12:07, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * There is not a unique and pervaisive flag accepted by all Kurds and even separatist groups in different countries. Please have a look here for example . Best SHADEGAN (talk) 14:51, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

 * None of those sources claim that the tricolor flag used in Rojava is the flag of Kurdistan. All the articles you have given talk about the Kurdish PYD party. The Aljazeera article you have given even say: Kurdish children flash the sign for victory next to a flag of the PYD during a demonstration against the exclusion of Syrian-Kurds from the Geneva talks in the Syrian city of Qamishli. The Frace24 article writes: A Kurdish man waves a large flag of the Democratic Union Party (PYD). It is a party flag and you know that. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 15:31, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, here are some examples of Kurdish national flags being used alongside PYD/TEVDEM political flags:  -Thespündragon 02:13, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted as pure vandalism or a blatant hoax, because there's reliable references explicitly stating that the 'the colorful flag' is the flag of KURDISTAN (as mentioned in the article). Now, no where on this article, nor elsewhere on Wikipedia will you find information that would indicate that Kurdistan is a sovereign state. Sovereignty is irrelevant and dozens of autonomous regions and even mere provinces have flags - flags that are ALSO seen as ethnic flags. Portbase has clearly not even bothered to check the references. Also, You have been very disruptive lately and most of your edits have been rightfully reverted. This is just a continuation and I hope admins will see your 'contributions'-history. --Semsurî (talk) 16:58, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

 * Definitely DO NOT DELETE... AnonMoos (talk) 22:58, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

Flag used by the Xoybûn
this flag? has no real source or whatsoever. It's known that the Xoybûn used a tricolor flag Red-White-Green and a sun in the middle. so what is this nonsense? Qijik (talk) 13:19, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

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 * Flag of Kingdom of Kurdistan (1922-1924).svg

Kurdistan flag color meaning
Kurdistan flag color meaning 185.136.148.21 (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

"🏴" listed at Redirects for discussion
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title: Talk:Flag of Kurdistan


text:
Lóegaire

Lóegaire (Laoghaire, Láegaire, Loeguire, sometimes anglicised as Leary) is a popular medieval Irish given name borne by a number of historical and legendary figures.

People
Notable people bearing this name include:
 * Lóegaire Lorc, legendary High King of Ireland of the 6th century BC
 * Lóegaire Búadach, hapless would-be hero of the Ulster Cycle
 * Lóegaire mac Néill, High King of Ireland in the time of Saint Patrick
 * Lughaid mac Loeguire, another High King of Ireland

Fictional characters

 * Laoghaire MacKenzie, a character in the Outlander series of novels

Other
In south county Dublin there is the town of Dún Laoghaire, meaning "The Fort of Leary."

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Lóegaire


text:
House of Champassak

The House of Champassak or the Na Champassak family (ນະ ຈຳປາສັກ; ณ จัมปาศักดิ์, ) was an important Lao royal house, descendants of Chao Yuttithammathon (Kham Souk), the 11th King of the Kingdom of Champassak whose prominent members include Prince Boun Oum Na Champassak and Prince Sisouk na Champassak. It was the ruling house of the former Kingdom of Champassak, with territories reaching on both banks of the Mekong river.

History
To prevent the attempts of Setthathirath II, nephew of King Suliyavongsa, to unify the kingdom of Lan Xang to include Vientiane and Loungprabang, the King of Loungprabang requested aid from Siam. The King of Siam intervened, granting Loungprabang independence from Lan Xang. Following in the footsteps of his cousin the King of Loungprabang, the Prince Nokasat Song, refused to acknowledge the rule of Setthathirath II. A grandson of King Suliyavongsa, the prince had left Vientiane for Southern Laos upon the return of Setthathirath II. He asked the King of Siam to recognize Champassak's independence from Lanxang. Lan Xang was thus split yet even further into a total of three small kingdoms.

During the rule of King Anouvong of the Kingdom of Vientiane, Anouvong placed his son Prince Nyô on the throne of Champassak. During King Anouvong's rebellion against Siam, the former royals of Champassak started a rebellion against Prince Nyô while he was fighting against Siamese forces in Issan. Returning to Champassak, Prince Nyô saw a rebellion taking place and barely escaped out of the city. This escape was cut short after the former rulers tracked down Prince Nyô and handed him over to the Siamese. The King of Siam returned the former royal family to rule over Champassak.

The name Champassak was given by Vajiravudh, the King of Siam, to descendants of Chao Yuttithammathon (Kham Souk), the 11th king of the Kingdom of Champassak. They took their name from the city of Champassak, prefixed by the nobiliary particle na signifying of a former kingdom or tributary state of Siam. They are descended from the rulers of the Kingdom of Champassak and are also members of the Khun Lo Dynasty, which was established by Khun Lo. Originally, it was transliterated in English as Na Champasakdi. During most of the 19th century the Kingdom of Champassak was a tributary of Bangkok but was not a part of Siam proper.

Power and Wealth
The Champassaks were one of the most important and wealthy families in Laos. Along with other leading families of Southern Laos and Chinese businessmen working in the opium trades, they dominated political and economic life in Southern Laos. At the time they were the national symbol and rallying point of the Laotian right centered around Prince Boun Oum na Champassak.

Notable members

 * King Ratsadanay, last King of Champassak. Died in June 1946, in the Bassac River.
 * Chao Boun Oum na Champassak, Prime Minister of Laos. Died in 1981, in France.
 * Prince Sisouk na Champassak, Former Finance and Defence Minister, Secretary General of the Royal Government of Laos. Author of Storm over Laos. Died in 1985, in Santa Ana, California, USA.

title: House of Champassak


text:
Talk:Ayub Khan

Untitled
THE PHOTO FOR AYUB KHAN AND YAHA KHAN IS THE SAME. SEE THAT ARTICLE. I DONT KNOW WHICH ONE IS CORRECT. PLEASE CHANGE!!! --203.197.115.38 05:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That seems to have been fixed now. Walkerma 21:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I've reverted in order to remove 172.166.119.221's addition: “Ayub plainly regretted ever calling elections in the first place. For after six years of insisting that Pakistanis were not ready for democracy, the campaign had shown that Mohammed Ayub Khan probably wasn't either.” What's plainly true to one person won't be to another; is there any evidence for this regret? Similarly for Khan's lack of preparedness? Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 10:15, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Paragraph needs work.
In the last paragraph of the section on th71.139.2.186 (talk) 04:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)e 1965 war, the first sentence ("These were the years when Pakistan in 1963 imprudently all ...") doesn't make sense, and the rest of the paragraph needs work in general.Dcheng 03:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I have edited the first sentence of that paragraph with the information which i have. But i can't find any other mistake like that in the rest of the paragraph.Sarmad (talk) 13:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Disputed Ayub is a Pashtun
I dont know who is writing this article but ayub khan was a proud pashtun not a hindko, maybe he was a hindko but hindkos are pashtuns loool. his parents were pashtuns, He spoke pashto, he grew up with pashtuns but at the end was labeled a hindko loool. the article must be written back to him being Pashtun and is noted in the history books as a pashtun. What more evidence???71.139.34.11 (talk) 05:29, 3 March 2008 (UTC)Pashtun786

LOL at the above comment. You are welcome to check on from even his family, they dont speak in Pashtu, they speak in Hindko and belong from the Haripur District of Hazara Division. And Ayub Khan himself also talked in Hindko not pashtu, he might be knowing it as a secondary language but his language was Hindko, and that is not disputed.Wikitanoli (talk) 06:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Confuse... and somehow hagiographic
That’s what I find about the article in its current version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.52.232.106 (talk) 07:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

_________________________________________________________________ AYUB KHAN IS PASHTUN Ayub Khan is definetly Pashtun spoke pashto not Hindko, its seems that every person that is pashtun is some how a Hindko nowadays, maybe they dont want to give pashtuns full credit, they attached Hindko to show that hindko also claim him and they should get credit. Plus Hindko's are pashtuns. 71.139.2.186 (talk) 04:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)Pashtun786

Ayub Khan was Pushtun
Ayub Khan was a pushtun, given the fact that he was from a pushtun tribe called Tareen. But you are wrong at one place.

You are WRONG to call all Hindkowans as Pushtuns. I am offended by this call being a Hashmi Awan (Pakistan) of Arab origin. Hindkowans is a group of people who belong to various tribes of Indian, Afghan, Persian and Arab origin. They came together and spoke a common language called Hindko. So a Hindkowan can be a Pushtun, punjabi or an Arab. It is possible for a person to be Hinkowan and Arab at the same time (like me) or Hindkowan and Pashtun at the same time like Ayub KHan. What language Ayub Khan spoke is a separate issue and I have no idea about it :). But his son and grandson, Gohar Ayub and Omar Ayub speak Hindko language. So they are Hindkowans of Pushtun origin.

I feel that it will not be wrong to call Ayub Khan a Hindkowan of Pushtun origin as he was from a Hazara and his family speak Hindko. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.131.166.20 (talk) 12:19, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the last commentator that Hindko is a language not an ethnic group. Ayub Khan was a tareen and as such a Pashtun. Secondly, Hindkowan is a term that was devised for Peshawaris of Kharay group who are by and large Awans and it does not sit very well with Hazara region's tribes as many of those speak both Hindko and Pushto while others speak either Pashto or Hindko but cannot be called Hindkowans as majority are Pashtuns. Whatever they may speak now the Pashtuns of Hazara were speaking Pushto until quite recently. Nobody can say the Swatis, Jadoon, Tahirkhels, Utmanzais, Tanwalis etc. do not/did not speak Pashto.

There is misconception about the origins of Awans. Awans have arab origins they are decsendants of Qutb Shah(Aun ibn Yeila), who was hashemite decendant of Hazarat Ali(RA).Awans are not decendants of Qutbuddin. There are many groups of people of turk, persian and indian origins who call themselves as Awans like the many hindki speaking people of Peshawar and bannu.Real Awans are living dominantly in areas like Mianwali, Khushab , Chakwal , Attock , Rawalpindi , Sudhanoti district of azad kashmir , Kohat , Mardan (Sawal dher village).If you compare Awans of these areas mentioned above with the awans of bannu , and peshawar there is a big difference The awans of hindko community of peshawar and bannu have dark skin, short in height while the awans of above mentioned areas are tall have fair skin and have strong physique.According to genetics Awans of above mentioned areas have arab origin but awans of hinko community of bannu , peshawar have different origins they have mix origins of Afghans(turks) , uzbeks and jatts , they are not real awans but show themselves as awans , like many mughal they often show themselves as Pathans and some rajputs claims to be of persian origins and arab origins also like khokhar rajput , Chauhan rajput and khattar rajput they also claim ancestry from qutb shah. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.47.12.219 (talk) 05:42, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Grammar + POV
there's a lot of grammatical errors that i couldnt go through and fix right now, also the point of views throughout the biography section, and the other sections could use some cleaning up.

You mean 'There are a lot of grammatical errors...' - the word errors is plural so you must predicate it as such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moarrikh (talk • contribs) 13:54, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Flickr pictures

Ayub Khan signing the Tashkent Agreement in 1966. this picture can be used and placed in the Wikipedia Commons.

Description: "Commerce Minister Ghulam Faruque, Foreign Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and Foreign Secretary Aziz Ahmed look on. Prime Minister Shastri died the same night of a heart attack. A member of Pakistan entourage woke up the Foreign Minister and told him on the telephone, 'The bastard is dead'. Still in his sleep Bhutto asked 'Which one?'"

Ayub Khan's Ethnic Descent
Dear Wikipedia, I keep editing out the Category 'Pashtun people' and adding 'Pakistani people of Afghan descent', which is more accurate, but this first is added again and my entry deleted. I must please request some neutral Wiki overseer to kindly make an honest assessment -- according to every exisiting record Ayub Khan was a 'Hindkowan' Tareen, a Hindko speaker of Afghan descent/origin, whose elders had settled in Haripur area of Hazara division, now in Pakistan, during the 18th century. Even the old British military/army establishment classified such ethnic stock as 'Hazarawals and Hazarawal-Pushtuns' and not as Pathans/Pushtuns per se. You are very welcome to check this out and confirm. Like all such settlers, who have Pushtun/Afghan origins but might not be classified as 'Pashtuns' in the strictest sense today, the natural and most suitable classification or category here seems to be 'Pakistani (or Indian) people of Afghan descent'. Id be grateful if this change is duly implemented, thank you. 39.54.242.79 (talk) 13:30, 11 March 2012 (UTC)Dr HP Gupta

I basically dispite this, please, and would request a proper resolution thanks 39.54.242.79 (talk) 13:32, 11 March 2012 (UTC) HP Gupta

 * Hi, I am neutral with respect to this but I removed the category as no source was given. Please give a reliable source which states that he is from Afghan decent and probably mention it in the article so that this can be classified under that category. If you have sources, you're free to make the edit. -- lTopGunl (talk) 13:35, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Dear Mr TopGun Hi, as even Gen Ayub Khan mentions in his own autobiography, "Friends Not Masters", he is of Tareen origins/tribe, Bate zai section--and they originally hail from Tarin Kot, in Qandahar area of Afghanistan. His elders came and settled here in the 18th century. If you would please look up various/several sources on origins of the Pushtuns/Pathans (eg Caroe, Olaf, 'The Pathans', 1959; RTI Ridgeway "The Pathans', 1911 etc) you would certainly know that the Pathans/Pushtuns were originally known as 'Afghans' and during the time of Ahmad Shah Durrani gave their name to 'Afghanistan'. Term 'Afghan' itself derived from the name 'Afghana', who was the grandfather supposedly of Qais or Abdur Rashid, the remote progenitor of all Afghans/Pushtuns. In this sense, the word does not mean the same thing as implying citizenship of a country called Afghanistan but being of Afghan descent/descended from Afghana. I think (as Caroe, Spain (1969) and several other scholars point out, most people tend to also confuse (a) Afghan descent with being a Pushtu speaker; and (b) on this basis also confuse the fact that some people/settlers in parts of India and Pakistan eg the Tareen and Jadun Afghans of Hazara area, the Niazis and Burkis of Ludhiana etc, are very much 'Afghans' descended from Afghana, even though not Pushtu speakers anymore and thus not generally classifiesd as Pushtuns proper. I think that is a very siginificant distiction and must be adhered to. Thank you. 39.54.242.79 (talk) 13:52, 11 March 2012 (UTC)HP Gupta

 * If you can cite the sources you claim inline and add this to the article, by all means change the category (and remember to remove the tags when you do). I do not dispute your additions but do ask for sources which are required per wikipedia's no original research policy. Thanks. -- lTopGunl (talk) 13:58, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Former Queen of Pakistan??
Recently, there is a photo added by Lilpiglet, description of that photo reads as "Queen Elizabeth II, former Queen of Pakistan and Ayub Khan". I have confronted that term "Former Queen of Pakistan" for Queen Elizabeth ||, i do not think that this is a right term to use here. First of all this term is not verifiable by any reliable sources, secondly it is controvercial to begin with that she can be called Queen of Pakistan. Thirdly, even if she can be called as Queen of Pakistan, she can also be at the same time be called as Queen of Australia, India, Burma and so many other commonwealth nations so i do not see a point of mentioning her as Queen of Pakistan. There is another issue here. Subject of this article is Ayub Khan and not the Queen so photo description should say "Ayub Khan with Queen Elizabeth II and Commonwealth prime minister" and not the other way around. I will be changing the description to a description which won't seem controvercial and i suggest that description should not be changed. Anyone seeking to change the description and changing Queen's title to "Former Queen of Pakistan" must provide a reliable source which uses that term for her. Moreover, i will suggest people to not use the term "my work" because nobody owns any thing on Wikipedia, when something is released on Wikipedia, anyone can make changes to it. See Ownership of articles. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 15:59, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

 * User:Sajjad Altaf, by calling her Queen of India just goes to show how little (if any) you know of the subject and are reverting factual sources of information (as she NEVER was Queen of India (EVER). Here is an idea, go to Lahore and to the Quaid e Azam Library and study the archives there yourself for real sources. But then again, there is amble sources on wikipedia that already state this fact and if she wasn't former Queen of Pakistan, try to get that page removed as your fellow educated Pakistani historians or on the subject matter will disagree with you. Also search up how the Queen Elizabeth also wore Pakistani symbols of both East AND West Pakistan on her dress for her coronation (do you even know what coronation is?). Stop WP:STALKING with you disruptive edits on subjects you have no clue about and confrontation (not only is abusive in real life) but also goes against WP:ETIQ lilpiglet 20:09, 14 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilpiglet (talk • contribs)

 * I only want you to comply with Wikipedia policies namely WP:RS, WP:V and WP:BURDEN before adding title Queen of Pakistan for her into that description. If you think there are ample sources on Wikipedia which gives her status of Queen of Pakistan please cite them here. Also i am not sure which page you are referring to which states her as Queen of Pakistan, i am sure that page would not have any reliable sources as well. Also, i do not care what she wore or did not because burden of proof WP:BURDEN is on the person who wants to add that information in the article and not on me so please provide a reliable source which clearly mentions her as Queen of Pakistan and i would not have any problem if you add that title for her and that would settle the matter. Moreover Wikipedia articles upon themselves are not reliable sources and they cannot be used for that purpose. Please stop abusing me and discuss the subject matter. Sajjad Altaf (talk) 20:38, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

His policies and opposition in East Pakistan missing
Okay, the man was a serious buffoon. All the article does is glorify him as if he was some pro-American angel. Whereas he actually considered declaring Pakistan a monarchy. -Rainmaker23 (talk) 01:07, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

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 * Muhammed Ayub Khan 1940-41.jpg

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:21, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * 17 January 1951 - Ayub Khan assumes charge as CinC of the Pakistan Army.jpg (discussion)
 * Kaptai dam in East Pakistan being visited by Ayub Khan.jpg (discussion)

Indian islamophobic trolling
This page has once again been targeted by Indian trolls, action must be taken to protect it and lock it. Zai97 (talk) 01:04, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:07, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Ayub with Lal Bahadur Shastri (1966).jpg (discussion)
 * General Ayub Khan, Oct. 8, 1958.jpg (discussion)

His spouse/wife?
He has sons and grandsons that are still in the country's politics. But I can't find out who his wife was. Any info regarding this? Gotitbro (talk) 17:36, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Found an image of his wife as Begum Ayub Khan, no real name (begum is a title) but adding as such into the article. Gotitbro (talk) 20:47, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

DISPUTING HIS MILITARY INVOLVEMENT IN WAZIRISTAN
i find it confusing that he went against the waziristan rebellion. Does anyone have a source about his participation in the 1936 war in waziristan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PreserveOurHistory (talk • contribs) 15:55, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 1 June 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Closed as move per 3:1 support over oppose consensus. (non-admin closure) Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 11:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

– This article has been moved numerous times and it seems there's never been any discussion about it. The underlying issue appears to be that we have a set index article at the common name for this person. As this person is the primary topic, the solution is simple: move the set index article out of the way. Problem solved. I could have quite simply done a round-robin move but going through a formal move request, we can settle the issue once and for all.  Schwede 66  22:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Muhammad Ayub Khan → Ayub Khan
 * Ayub Khan → Ayub Khan (disambiguation)

 * ✅, Ayub Khan is commonly used for him. Mehedi Abedin 09:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose Muhammad Ayub Khan has 17,867 views but the actor has 10,039, Omar Ayub Khan has 8,549, Gohar Ayub Khan has 4,980, Ayub Khan Din has 585, the Emir of Afghanistan has 584, Sardar Muhammad Ayub Khan has 73 and Ayub Khan Ommaya has 4[].  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. The former president is definitely the most historically significant person who is expected to have enduring prominence while the actors' prominence fluctuates.VR (Please ping on reply) 02:56, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ayub Khan


text: Category:Deputy premiers of Ontario

title: Category:Deputy premiers of Ontario


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Archive (band)

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. —Korath (Talk) 17:33, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

Archive (band)
This page appears to be merely an attempt at promotion of a current band (musical group). (Has nothing of an encyclopedic nature about the band.) Of what encyclopedic value is this list of albulms? Can't little lists of band members and albulms be easily found on the internet already without turning Wikipedia into a database for such things? (Wikipedia is overloaded as it is.)

This has been a Stub for almost a year.

See also the "disambiguation page" (Is it ambiguous if users are not likly to be searching for a band if they type "archive"?)

-- Serge Dupouy 10:18, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, band vanity. Megan1967 00:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, and clean up. Google gets 126 thousand hits for archive + "trip-hop", and All Music Guide has an entry for them. DaveTheRed 00:07, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I expanded it a little bit. Is this sufficient for everyone? DaveTheRed 00:20, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, notable, should be expanded. --grmwnr 09:30, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, i will expand it some more. They are notable, and, incidentally, are very good. Jdcooper 14:59, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Article expanded further. So keep, and redirect Archive (Disambiguation) and Archive to Archive (band) Jdcooper 15:40, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text: User talk:62.103.191.6

title: User talk:62.103.191.6


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment (draft user conduct amendments)

This page is here to help develop a revised RfC approach for user conduct issues. The goals are to emphasize resolving disputes and to help reduce frustration by resolving them sooner and in a less adversarial manner. See also WP:RfC and Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment.

Please feel free to make amendments to the suggested text and to discuss the text on Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment (draft user conduct amendments).

Wikiquette alert
Wikiquette alerts are an option for a quick, streamlined way to get an outside view. Just post a single link here to the problem as you see it (for example, a single posting or section of a talk page). Label the comment neutrally and post the date but do not sign or use names.

Outsiders who visit the link are encouraged to make a constructive comment about any Wikiquette violations they see. Postings in this section should be removed after seven days.

Comment about individual users
For comparison purposes, please see: Requests for comment - Comment about individual users - Original text

Use this section to ask for outside opinions on how best to resolve a dispute you have with an individual user, rather than about article content. You should also state what your goal is with the RFC (for example, what you would like the other person or persons to do or stop doing).

To request comments, please follow the instructions to create a subpage in the appropriate section below. Before requesting comments from other Wikipedians here, you must first try to resolve your disagreement with the other person on a talk page.

Once the request for comment is open, other Wikipedians will hopefully come along with suggestions as to how to resolve the disagreement. This may include suggestions for how one or both parties should modify their behaviour.

Once the request for comment is open, it will remain open for the longer of 14 days or 3 days after the latest new contributor to the page has posted their comments, unless both the disputants request otherwise, for instance, because their dispute has been resolved before this time expires.

After that, it will be deleted. But users are free to keep a copy on their user page.

General user conduct
Discussions about how best to resolve a dispute with another user should be listed in this section unless the issue to be resolved concerns the use of admin privileges or the choice of username. To make a listing, please create a subpage using the following sample listing as a template (anything within {...} are notes):

 * YOUR USER NAME requests outside comments on how to resolve their dispute with /Example user. The dispute concerns : {one or two short sentences giving the dry facts)

Use of administrator privileges
This section is only for discussions specifically related to the use of sysop rights by Administrators. This includes the actions of protecting or unprotecting pages, deleting or undeleting pages, and blocking or unblocking users. If the dispute is over an admin's actions as an editor, it should be listed under the General user conduct section above. To list a dispute, create a subpage using the following sample as a template:

 * YOUR USER NAME requests outside comments on how to resolve their dispute concerning how /Example admin has exercised their sysop rights. The dispute concerns: {one or two short sentences giving the dry facts.}

Choice of username
If you believe someone has chosen an inappropriate username under Wikipedia's username policy, you may create a subpage here to discuss whether the user should be forced to change usernames. However, before listing the user here, you must first contact the user on their talk page and give them an opportunity to change usernames voluntarily.

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Example user
Current text is on Requests for comment/Example user

Note: all headings have been moved down one level for ease of reference on this RfC approach development page

 * YOUR USER NAME, after trying and failing to resolve their dispute with OTHER USER'S NAME requests outside comments on how to resolve their dispute. All constructive comments on how the dispute may be resolved, including, but not limited to, suggestions that one or both of the above-mentioned users should modify their behaviour, are welcome.

The Request for Comment process is designed to seek a constructive outcome. Users who are involved in the action should use the period this page is in existence for in a productive way to work towards a mutual resolution. It is particularly important, if a successful resolution is to be achieved, that all users look towards moderating their behaviour both on and off this page.

This page will be listed at Requests for comment until the later of 14 days after first posting and 3 days after the last new contributor has left a comment, unless the above-mentioned users have both requested that it is removed sooner - because, for example, the issue has been resolved. After this period, this page will be deleted, again, unless the above-mentioned users have both requested that it is retained.

As this page is

(Your username | talk | contributions)'s statement of the dispute
''This is a summary written by the user making the initial request for comment. Although it should be sufficient to enable users who are unfamiliar with the dispute to understand it, it should be as concise as possible. Only the user initiating the request for comment should edit here.

Users filing RfCs should state what they would like the RfC to accomplish, such as what behaviour should change.

Examples
(Provide diffs and links that illustrate what the dispute is about. To provide a diff go to the "history" page of an article and select to compare a user's edit with the edit immediately preceding that one. Then copy and paste the URL address onto this page and place square brackets either side of it.)

Confirmation that the request procedures have been followed
I confirm that I have tried and failed to resolve the dispute (provide diffs and links and sign). I confirm that I have informed OTHER USER'S NAME about this request (provide diff and sign).

Suggested way of resolving the dispute
(Please outline any positive suggestions as to how the dispute may be resolved. These suggestions may include either or both of you might change your approach or an offer to take a break from editing particular pages.)

(Other user's name | talk | contributions)'s response
''This is a summary written by the other user. The other user should approach this section constructively, rather than defensively, and should include any suggestions to resolve the dispute, which might how either or both might change their approach or an offer to take a break from editing particular pages''.

(Add summary here)

Examples
If there are any diffs or links that illustrate the response, the other user should place them here

Outside views
This is a summary/selection of summaries written by users not directly involved with the dispute(s) mentioned above, but who would like to add an outside view of how the dispute might be resolved.

{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who partipate in the RfC and do so by contributing to the sections above this comment area may not make comments in this section.}

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):

Discussion
All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment - Comment about individual users - Original text

Comment about individual users
This section is for discussing specific users who have allegedly violated Wikipedia policies and guidelines. In order to request comment about a user, please follow the instructions to create a subpage in the appropriate section below. Disputes over the writing of articles, including disputes over how best to follow the NPOV policy, belong in the Article content disputes section above.

Before listing any user conduct dispute here, at least two people should have tried to resolve the same issue by discussing it with the subject on his or her talk page or the talk pages involved in the dispute. This must involve the same dispute or concern the same disputed type(s) of activity, not different ones.

Once the request for comment is open, these two people must document their individual efforts, provide evidence that those efforts have failed to produce change, and sign the comment page. Requests for comment which do not meet these minimum requirements after 48 hours from creation are considered "uncertified" and will be de-listed. The subject RFC page will also be deleted, unless the subject has explicitly requested it to be retained.

General user conduct
Discussions about user conduct should be listed in this section unless the complaint is specifically about the use of admin privileges or the choice of username. To list a user conduct dispute, please create a subpage using the following sample listing as a template (anything within {...} are notes):

 * /Example user - Allegations: {one or two short sentences giving the dry facts; do not sign entry.}

Use of administrator privileges
This section is only for discussions specifically related to the use of sysop rights by Administrators. This includes the actions of protecting or unprotecting pages, deleting or undeleting pages, and blocking or unblocking users. If the dispute is over an admin's actions as an editor, it should be listed under the General user conduct section above. To list a dispute, create a subpage using the following sample as a template:

 * /Example admin - Allegations: {one or two short sentences giving the dry facts; do not sign entry.}

As with disputes over general user conduct, at least two people must certify that they believe there is a legitimate basis for the complaint. If the listing is not certified within 48 hours of listing, it will be deleted.

Choice of username
If you believe someone has chosen an inappropriate username under Wikipedia's username policy, you may create a subpage here to discuss whether the user should be forced to change usernames. However, before listing the user here, please first contact the user on his or her talk page and give them an opportunity to change usernames voluntarily.


text: User talk:62.38.34.70

title: User talk:62.38.34.70


text:
Timeline of Chinese astronomy

This is a timeline of Chinese records and investigations in astronomy.

 * 2137 BC - October 22, the Chinese book, the Book of Documents, records the earliest known solar eclipse.
 * c. 2000 BC - Chinese determine that Jupiter needs 12 years to complete one revolution of its orbit.
 * c. 1400 BC - Chinese record the regularity of solar and lunar eclipses and the earliest known Solar prominence and two novas (七日己巳夕有新大星并火，辛未酉殳新星).
 * c. 1200 BC - Chinese divide the sky into twenty eight regions (Chinese constellations) for recognition of the stars.
 * c. 1100 BC - Chinese first determine the spring equinox.
 * 776 BC - Chinese make the earliest reliable record of a solar eclipse.
 * 613 BC - In July, a Comet, possibly Comet Halley, is recorded in the Spring and Autumn Annals (秋七月，有星孛入于北斗).
 * 532 BC - A nova was recorded in the Records of the Grand Historian and Zuo Zhuan (周景王十三年春，有星出婺女).
 * 364 BC - Earliest recorded observation of sunspots made by Gan De.
 * 28 BC - May 10, Chinese imperial history book, the Book of Han, makes earliest known dated record of sunspots; systematic Chinese observations of sunspots continue thereafter.
 * 185 - The earliest recorded supernova of RCW 86
 * 687 - Chinese make earliest known record of meteor shower.
 * 1054 - July 4, Chinese astronomers noted the appearance of a guest star, the supernova which produced the Crab Nebula, Messier's M1.
 * 1088 - In his Dream Pool Essays, the polymath Chinese scientist Shen Kuo (1031–1095) wrote of his findings for the improved meridian measurement between the pole star and true north, which was an invaluable concept for aiding navigation by use of the magnetic compass. Shen Kuo also argued for spherical celestial bodies by using evidence of lunar eclipses and solar eclipses, which promoted the spherical Earth theory and went against the flat Earth theory.

title: Timeline of Chinese astronomy


text:
TUNE! FM

TuneFM (ACMA callsign: 2UNE) is the University of New England's (UNE) campus radio station, a high power open narrowcasting service operated by UNELife in Armidale, Australia. Founded in 1970, the station is Australia’s oldest university broadcaster, serving UNE’s students, staff, and the broader Armidale community.

History
TuneFM has a colourful history of broadcasting, both legally and illegally. Its inception dates back to 1968 when a group of five students called the UNE Radio Committee presented a prerecorded, half-hour radio show each week on Armidale's local commercial station, 2AD. With the support of this group, Professor Neville Fletcher of the UNE Physics Department approached the Postmaster-General's Department and presented the idea of establishing a service similar to those emerging on university campuses in the United States. After considering this novel idea, the Postmaster-General wrote on 14 January 1969 to say a licence would be issued. The licence allowed the station to operate a 'closed-loop' system with micro-transmitters located in each of the eight residential colleges on campus.

After overcoming technical and operational hurdles, Radio UNE (RUNE) began test transmissions on 1630 kHz on the AM band in March 1970. The station was officially opened at 7pm on 27 April that year, with a pre-recorded message from the Vice Chancellor, Professor Zelman Cowen who oversaw the license application. Richard "Swinging Dick" Mutton, Station Manager, introduced the first music track, Harry Nilsson's Everybody's Talking. Operating on only a yearly budget of about $3000, the initial construction of the station was an impressive example of passionate student motivation and community spirit. The studio desk was built from scraps by one volunteer, another student did the electrical wiring and one especially committed staff member even built a studio in his own home for production work. Only a few months later on 4 August, RUNE put itself firmly on the map with a bold attempt at an Australian record. Nineteen-year-old student Nigel Wood extraordinarily broadcast non-stop for 87 hours going on-air every 15 minutes. Several years later in 1991, the station would take back its record with student Ian Ferguson smashing out a massive 192 hours of non-stop announcing.

TuneFM has operated on a 10-watt HPON Narrowcast license since it was awarded a frequency on the FM radio spectrum in 1986. Interference problems and frustration with the low-powered transmission system led the station to experiment, sometimes illegally, with alternative transmission methods. At times the station could be heard as far away as Uralla and Guyra. This limitation was appealed during the late 1990s and again in 2009. Both of these appeals were rejected by the ABA and ACMA respectively, even though the location of TuneFM's transmitter at the Newling Building in town restricts the station from being heard reliably on the main UNE campus.

Whilst being a Narrowcast station, TuneFM is a full member of the Community Broadcasting Association of Australia, and voluntarily subscribes to the Community Broadcasters' Code of Practice.

Until 2006, the station was funded by the UNE Students' Association (UNESA) through compulsory student union fees. Following the introduction of voluntary student unionism, the administration of the station was transferred to Services UNE Ltd in February 2006 prior to a Special General Meeting of the Students' Association that wound up that association. On 11 July 2006, the university announced a funding package for Services UNE Ltd and Sport UNE to ensure that a variety of non-academic services, including TuneFM, could be maintained on campus. In late 2008 the station was allocated over $600,000 from both the Federal Government and the University of New England in order to build new studios and facilities. These grants were awarded on the provision that TuneFM's new facilities could be utilised as a part of a proposed School of Rural Media and Communications at the University of New England.

TuneFM became the focus of national attention during the 2010 Australian federal election, after TUNE's Operations Manager Kate Doak released audio from the station's archives of Opposition Leader Tony Abbott from 1979. The audio was recorded for the "Campuswide" current affairs program during a conference at the University of New England, which Mr. Abbott attended during his tenure as the President of the University of Sydney's Student Association. The story was picked up by the Sydney Morning Herald and remained in the Headlines section of their website for over three days during the election campaign, under the name of "The Tiny Tony Tapes".

At the commencement of 2014, the management of TuneFM was handed back over to the re-established UNESA.

title: TUNE! FM