text:
Talk:The Fields of Athenry

Copyright
If the song was written n the 1980s isn't it copyrighted? -R. fiend 04:44, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The music is copyrighted. The lyrics are from a ballad well over a hundred years old. - M ask [[Image:Flag_of_Alaska.svg|20 px]] 20:54, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The article clearly states twice that the words and the lyrics were written in the 1980s. If this is incorrect, the article needs to change. If this is correct, the lyrics need to go unless we can contact the copyright holder and get permission. Marnanel 12:46, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I left the relevent links on your talk page. The St. John version is based on an 1800's folk song. - M  ask?  18:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Are not words and lyrics the same thing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.137.77 (talk) 20:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Botany Bay
I removed the mention of Tasmania. The lyrics clearly reference the penal colony in Botany Bay, not Tasmania.

 * You are right --V7ndotcom elursrebmem 11:41, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Ran/cut me down
I have sung this song/heard this song sung many times, so when I saw "ran me down" it surprised me. Looking on other various sites, the lyrics are usually referred to as "cut me down." However, I cannot find an extremely reputable source for this reference. Here are some sites that write it as "cut me down": The most reputable is DigiTrad, which also includes a MIDI of the song: here are the lyrics and related information. Other sites also reference "cut me down."    I'd like to see some sources for "ran me down" before changing it back.

Yizzerin 05:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Original recording
This article states that the song "was first recorded by Irish ballad singer Paddy Reilly", but Pete St. John's website states "I wrote the Fields of Athenry in the middle 1970's and it was finally recorded and released in 1979 by Danny Doyle and became a top 10 hit and the rest is history!" Mikecron 00:29, 10 December 2005 (UTC) Actually I believe it was recorded by a band called Rakish Paddy first Gerry Crilly sang the song — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.108.181.254 (talk) 05:37, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Popular versions
"The song has been recorded by many Irish artists such as Paddy Reilly, Frank Patterson, Ronan Tynan, Brush Shiels, James Galway, and The Dropkick Murphys."

The Dropkick Murphys are not an Irish band - edited accordingly. Lwdjaymac 07:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

"Punk" version
The version of the song being referenced here was sung by the band "Dropkick Murphys" on their "Blackout" album, not No Use For a Name...

There is a song by No Use for a Name called "Fields of Agony". I wonder if that's what is being talked about.

IRA
Untill a citation is given, I will remove this statementSuperdude99 11:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Someone removed the reference the the "IRA" version of the lyrics as of July 21, 2008. As a fan of Irish Rebel Music (though not necessarily the IRA), I think it is of interest, and certainly relevant to anyone who wants to know why this song may be considered "sectarian". I put it back in, and added a citation to a YouTube video showing a live performance with the audience chanting. LunaCity (talk) 18:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Pick up a version of The Dubliners 40th anniversary Live DVD, where they sing in Dublin. You can clearly hear the audience chant "Sinn Fein" and "IRA" during the chorus.(Paddy Reilly doesn't really seem to mind)83.109.90.218 (talk) 21:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

"A Father's Advice"
I've always wondered what Ranger's fans sing to this tune. I've been unable to find a listing of the words anywhere. There is a category for Rangers songs, it'd be interesting to see the words of "A Father's Advice" added. Camillus (talk) 12:50, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually - hold that result, I just found it here.

404 Not Found...

 * This link works. Jess Cully 12:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Famine
Do you think it's accurate to say it's "about the Famine"? Although it's the timeframe, I would think it's more of a reflection of Transportation to Australia than anything else. --Mike Searson 01:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The lyrics say that "Michael" is being transported because he "stole Trevelyan's corn" that his "son might see the morn". So yes, it's about transportation, but he's being transported for a crime he committed because of the famine, so it's accurate to say the song is about the famine. Fumblebruschi (talk) 21:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The Fields of Anfield Road
I don't think it's entirely right to redirect Fields of Anfield Road here to Fields of Athenry. They have the same tune but they are different songs, with different meanings, histories and significances. As a Liverpool fan I can attest that it's one of our most important songs (up there with You'll Never Walk Alone) and I think it deserves a little article of its own. I only post here because I'm not sure how to create an article when the new article's title is a redirect to something else... K. Lásztocska 02:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

 * It shouldn't be mentioned on this page at all. Every Irish Person and all the sports teams who sing the original hate the version sang by Liverpool and it's god awful. There should be no mention of it in relation to this song. Liverpool started singing it when they played Celtic in the UEFA Cup and think because they sang You'll Never Walk Alone together in Parkhead that they could rip off this song as well with no thought to what the song meant and why the teams who sing it actually sing it. All have connections with Ireland and the likes of London Irish and Celtic were formed by people who had to leave or forcibly removed Ireland during and after the Famine. Liverpool F.C. (although the city like London, Manchester, Birmingham etc have a strong Irish diaspora) have no background to the events or people who relate to the original.
 * Just a little background and one of the reasons why I hate the Liverpool version and why it is mentioned on this page! FearSneachta (talk) 14:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Your personal feelings do not matter here; only rules and guidelines (see original research, for example). Your hatred of said song is not a good enough reason to have the sentence removed from this page. ~ smb 18:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I really must come in to support and ehco the sentiments of FearSneachta. This "Liverpool" version has no right to be included in this article. For staters you will notice it is named "The Fields of Anfield Road" and has it's own article. Secondly, what if I were to go into "When The Saints Go Marching In" article and mention all the teams that sing "When The Reds/Blues/Greens/Whites/Yellows/ etc Go Marching In," what would happen then? You know fine well what would happen - they would be all removed, and rightly so, the same as this Liverpool Football song should be removed from this article. Pat Pending (talk) 19:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * You have not advanced a sound argument for the removal of sourced material from this page. See When Johnny Comes Marching Home. It is perfectly acceptable to include sections like Other versions or Popular culture. In this case, WJCMH spawns several other versions including The Ants Go Marching One By One (the theme for various footballs songs). The first page links the second and vice versa. The Battle Hymn of the Republic has a section named In sports which includes information on Glory Glory Man United. Again, both pages link each other.
 * On this page, the The Fields of Anfield Road information fits in well under Sporting anthem. Moreover, if somebody wanted to expand on the IRA version, you will not be able to prevent them, providing their addition is sourced. This is Wikipedia after all, not MySpace. ~ smb 20:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * In addition, so many editors were adding "When The Reds/Blues/Greens/Whites Go Marching In," they created a new page: When The Saints Go Marching In (sport) ~ smb 20:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I think the fact that The Fields of Anfield Road already has it's own article, is a sound enough argument in itself, and with all due respect, it is not a "Sporting Anthem" it's a Liverpool F.C. song - ever heard Leeds singing "The Fields Of Elland Road"? Pat Pending (talk) 21:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * We can easy change the section name to In sports, as per The Battle Hymn of the Republic and Glory Glory Man United. But you can't remove sourced information simply because you don't like it. ~ smb 22:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * What sourced information? Pat Pending (talk) 22:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Please see footnote number four: Story of a Song, Irish Independent, 30 September, 2006

 * I have already, it's an article about the Irish Independent, there is No Source regarding The Fields Of Anfield Road. Pat Pending (talk) 23:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * You are in error. The Irish Independent is merely the paper in which a story appeared. There is no provision that a source must be made freely available on the Internet. If you want verification, then try a LexisNexi search. ~ smb 23:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * No, I want it linked as per WP:verifiable sources or removed. Thanks. Pat Pending (talk) 23:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * WP:VERIFIABILITY does not require that a source be linked directly. WP:PROVEIT states that...

 * It is not necessary that the source be findable instantly by any reader, merely that it be demonstrably findable (for instance, by library or archive request...)

 * I was helpful enough to point you directly at the source, and I suggested you might try LexisNexis if you want to read the article yourself. So let me repeat, there is no stipulated condition that I provide you with a free copy of said piece. Understand?

 * WP:PROVEIT goes on to say...

 * If a reliable source is not readily available (e.g., freely accessible online), the editor inserting or restoring the challenged material should be able to provide page numbers and/or direct quotes from the original text supporting the material, upon request. (emphasis mine)

 * This is easy because I have access to the aforementioned article. It would take me less than two minutes to put it in quotes. However, I am not compelled to do this, simply because the subject matter itself is not in dispute, since you implicitly acknowledge that The Fields of Anfield Road is sung by Liverpool supporters after being adapted from The Fields of Athenry. If you are not aware of this fact, then please make it clear in your next reply. ~ smb 00:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't reference anything at all. All it does is redirect you to the wikipedia article on the history of the Irish Independent. The mention of it has no place in the article (particularly as you have gone up and set up your own article). I have also checked the unison.ie website which archives all issues of the Irish Independent and there is not said article. Therefore it should be removed. FearSneachta (talk) 12:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

 * You are not looking hard enough. This piece is accessable on the web. Do not remove reliably sourced information from this page. Thankyou. — eon, 17:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Challenged material
Under Sporting anthem, it reads...

The Fields of Anfield Road is sung by Liverpool supporters to the same tune, but with suitably adapted lyrics referencing their history and stadium.

User:Pat Pending, can you please state clearly so as to avoid any misunderstanding, exactly *what part* of this statement you are challenging. Thankyou. ~ smb 22:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Trevalyn's corn
Isn't this a reference to attacks on food convoys and grain ships during the famine years? (83.13.39.98 (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC))

Dan White
Isn't this the song that Dan White, the Moscone/Milk assassin, listened to? Should this be included and if so, where? 24.3.14.157 (talk) 09:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Sporting anthem - Celtic FC
I have reverted this section, giving a reference re Celtic fans.

The Herald article refers to the song being sung at a Celtic-Borussia Dortmund match. As far as I can tell, the most recent game between the 2 clubs was in 1992, so the song was already popular with Celtic fans by then.

E0N, if Irish teams were indeed "singing this long before Celtic", please provide a citation before reverting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.176.162 (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I didn't think the origin of the song, and its adoption at Irish games, was controversial. Nor apparently the editor who originally inserted the text (it wasn't me). I agree this statement needs to be referenced, now that it is challenged. You have supplied a source that confirms Scottish team Celtic adopted this song at an unspecified point in time. As above, this same source does not support the statement that Celtic were the first team to sing this song at a sports venue; only that they were planning to sing it, and that Pete St. John welcomed it. Because Wikipedia doesn't allow original research, I will revert, and add a tag that requires the entire section to be referenced. Please allow time for other editors to respond to the request, providing sources wherever necessary. — eon, 21:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

E0N, I agree, the inference that Celtic fans were singing this since 1992 was original research and should be discounted. However, the article cited is clear that the song had been popular with Celtic fans for "a few years" before 1996, therefore the current wording seems correct, given the absence of sources dating the song's adoption by any of the other teams listed.

Your previous edit summary (which, to me, sounds like original research) stated "Irish sports fans were singing this long before Celtic, so we need to find wording that communicates this relaity". If that's the case (and you may well be right) then it should be easy to find sources to confirm this.Hippo43 (talk) 11:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

 * We need only find sources that support the wording in the main body, not my edit summary (which is necessary abbreviated). With that in mind, there is a piece in the Irish Independent that associates the song most immediately with Munster Rugby and other Irish rugby union teams, before Celtic FC. The article does not purport to be a definitive history of the song, but it does place the aforementioned sports teams ahead of Celtic. There is also ambiguous references to the song at Hurling games throughout the 1990s, but these do not broach the topic of how it came to be sang, by whom first, and when; nor do I think it likely we will ever find such an article. So at this moment in time, the Irish Independent is the strongest reference we have, without engaging in original research. What do you suggest by way of compromise? — eon, 12:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed - your edit summary need not be sourced, but it does reflect the thinking behind the edit. That assertion (that Irish fans sang the song before Celtic fans) still appears unsubstantiated to me.

You may be right, but the Irish Independent article does not make any reference to how long each team's fans have used the song. Although it mentions these Irish teams first (in the same sentence as Celtic) it states only that the song is associated with all 4 teams. We probably shouldn't read anything (ie no original research) into the order of the teams given by the Irish Independent article - it might be, for example, that the Irish teams are mentioned first because it's an Irish paper!

Its sentence "The song is associated with the Munster, London Irish and Irish rugby union teams, and Celtic FC." gives no information on what kind of association they are talking about. The Herald article is clear that the song is very popular among Celtic's fans.

It also makes no reference to the Irish football team or Galway, or Gaelic games at all, though, again, it may be the case that the song is indeed popular there.

I don't agree that the Irish Independent article is a stronger source than the Herald's. There are two sources about the link between Celtic and the song. Both are newspaper articles, so of similar value or strength, and the Herald is the only one which goes into any detail about the link between the song and the club. It is also considerably older, placing the link with Celtic in the early 1990's (ie "a few years" before its publication in 1996), while the Irish independent (in 2006) makes no reference to when the song was adopted by anyone.

If we are to be meticulous about only using sourced infornation, and preserving the order written in the Irish Independent, I suggest the article should read -

"The song has long been an anthem of fans of Celtic F.C.[4,5]. It is also associated with the Irish rugby union team Munster, English rugby union team London Irish and the Ireland national rugby union team.[5]

"The Fields of Anfield Road" is sung by Liverpool supporters to the same tune, but with suitably adapted lyrics referencing their history and stadium.[5]

At the Beijing Olympics boxing final featuring Irish boxer Kenny Egan, Tom Humphries of the Irish Times noted,

"By the time Egan and Zhang emerged the great rhythmic roars of "Zhang! Zhang! Zhang!" competed to drown out the lusty warblings of a large Irish contingent who returned to singing of the problems of social isolation in rural Athenry.[2]" "

If you prefer to be more specific about using dates from sources, I would change the first paragraph to read "The song has been an anthem of fans of Celtic F.C.[4,5] since the early 1990's. Since 2006 it has also been associated with the Irish rugby union team Munster, English rugby union team London Irish and the Ireland national rugby union team." I think this sounds daft and the first suggestion would be better.

Having said all this, I realise there may be other sources out there which change the picture and am happy to support changing the article if they are cited.Hippo43 (talk) 13:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

One more source, though I'm not sure how best to cite this - track listing for CD of Celtic songs published in 1994 - http://www.tagtuner.com/music/albums/Various/The-Celtic-Songs-EP/album-v21a331. Hippo43 (talk) 14:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

 * A track listing is not a reliable third-party source -- if it were, this debate would be over, because I simply would adduce a number of pieces like this. We must follow guidelines. So here instead is a published source that observes Republic of Ireland national football team fans singing this song before and/or during the 1990 World Cup:

 * "When she was elected President of Ireland in November 1990, Mary Robinson made a big fuss of our great 'diaspora', as she called them, placing a perpetual light in a window of her official residence in order to welcome such people 'home'. At international matches, Irish football fans sang poignant verses of 'The Fields of Athenry', a lament about loss and forced migration that became the team's unofficial anthem. It alternated with the more boisterous if unlikely chant, 'Ole, ole, ole', with its accompanying Mexican wave. The euphoria that gripped Ireland as Jack's army advanced is linked in many people's minds with a growing sense of national self-confidence..." (Kenny, Colum. Moments that Changed Us, Gill & Macmillan, 2005)

 * This source places the Irish national football team ahead of the Scottish club team, do you agree? Remember also that the The Glasgow Herald article says that the song had "grown in popularity" with Celtic fans from around 1993 to the time of publication, in 1996.

 * I will endeavour to find a source for other Irish teams, but it is not easy because I don't think anyone could have envisioned Celtic fans laying claim to something that self-evidentially emerged elsewhere. I'm going to revert on this basis, because I think it is only fair that you give other editors time to respond to the dispute, providing sources wherever necessary. — eon, 19:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not looking for an edit war, or an endlessly pedantic article, but I can't see how removing sourced material is better than adding sources as they are found by editors. To give others time to find sources that they haven't been diligent enough to find in the past?

Of course a track listing of a CD is not a reliable source, that's why I didn't add it to the article. However it does, along with the numerous other albums of Celtic football songs which feature TFOA, have value in this discussion page, as does the link you provided re hurling. This isn't about 'claiming' this song for anyone, but I've had a quick look, and I haven't found any Munster or Irish rugby albums out there so far, which suggests to me that it may be more important to Celtic fans.

I don't think your opinion that "it is not easy [to find sources] because I don't think anyone could have envisioned Celtic fans laying claim to something that self-evidentially emerged elsewhere" is consistent with policy - or with your view that "We must follow guidelines."

As I've repeatedly said, I may be wrong, and have added the source you cited about the Irish football team, before the mention of Celtic. If you have others, add them, but please stop removing material with verifiable sources in favour of unverified things you believe are "self-evidential".Hippo43 (talk) 22:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia is a collaboration, and in every non-living person dispute like this, it is good practice to tag the section thereby allowing other editors time to find references. The original wording is neither harmful nor absurd on its face (i.e. that an Irish folk song about an Irish famine written by an Irishman should be sung at various Irish venues first). The fact template is provided exactly for situations like this: To alert editors that a statement is challenged and now requires a citation. The tag is not for decoration; it was created for this specific purpose. I do not have access to a library or a comprehensive online database like LexisNexis, but it is not unreasonable to assume that another editor might have access. You are not acting within the spirit of this guide. Indeed, your unwillingness to cooperate leads me to believe you are more interested in disproving my previous edit summary, promoting one sports team in particular, lending greater historical significance than might be accurate. — eon, 14:09, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I have never tried to say anyone adopted this song 'first' or 'before anyone else'. However, it is verifiably the case that the song has "long been an anthem of Celtic fans". That remains true whether hurling/Munster/Ireland fans sang it first in 1979 or 1995.

It seems clear that you are keen to remove this fact, as shown by your earlier edit summary and your repeated removal of my sourced material. Poor quality sources like this should help make it clear that Celtic fans long ago adopted this song, and that there may be better quality sources which help confirm this. Given that many of Celtic's estimated 9m fans are Irish or of Irish descent, this shouldn't be surprising.

Other editors, including myself, have not yet found sources confirming when the song was adopted by others. As I've already shown, by inserting your reference re the Irish football team, I'm more than happy to support changes to the article when they're supported by research. By my "unwillingness to cooperate" do you mean inserting sources found by you and objecting to you removing my referenced material?

In the discussion above (17:07, 30 July 2008), someone called eon (are you perhaps related?) said "Do not remove reliably sourced information from this page. Thankyou." Sounds like good advice.Hippo43 (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

 * My argument for reverting and tagging the disputed section is spelt out clearly on this talk page. I am not proposing that we remove reliably sourced information from this or any other page; rather, it was simply requested that you provide editors with clear notice that citations are requested for material they may not previously have considered to be controversial. Final wording could then be agreed upon if/when additional references are forthcoming after a reasonable period of time. If no references are produced, or if nobody cares to look for them, then we rework the section according to what we have. That is standard practice where there is some disagreement. The template pointed at above often defuses edit wars. For some reason you have chosen not to address directly this very point. — eon, 17:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

"I am not proposing that we remove reliably sourced information from this or any other page" You have removed correctly sourced material twice.

To reiterate - I don't agree that we should remove material that is sourced while we wait for others to maybe find more. As I've stated above, "it is verifiably the case that the song has "long been an anthem of Celtic fans"." This will still be true no matter what any of us find re Gaelic games etc. If you disagree, please explain why. I see no need to tag the whole section as disputed, only specifics which aren't currently addressed by sources.

The current wording on Munster etc is supported by the source (Irish Independent) which you defended in the 'Anfield Road' discussion above. I don't see why we should rely on that source for one part of this section and go beyond it for another.

As far as I can see, the template does not support reverting thus removing material that is properly sourced. I've added and tagged a reference to Galway & Gaelic games. This keeps the currently sourced material and gives others a chance to find material supporting this info.Hippo43 (talk) 17:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

 * "You have removed correctly sourced material twice." It is hard to assume good faith when you so brazenly distort my position. Please read my last response in its entirety. I proposed that all reliably sourced information be retained. It was hoped that you would respond to reason and collaborate by first allowing editors time to support the original wording. And if after a short period of time no additional sources are forthcoming, then we rework the section according to what we have (i.e. keep everything that has a source). This is clearly a waste of time. — eon, 00:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I stopped assuming good faith on your part some time ago, and your actions have made your position clear enough. You have reverted my sourced edits several times - an action not supported by the template you have used in justification.

You wrote (15 September) “I didn't think the origin of the song, and its adoption at Irish games, was controversial.” I’m sure you did, because you had already reverted this same point numerous times over the past few months.

You also wrote “Nor apparently the editor who originally inserted the text (it wasn't me).” As far as I can see, it was you who inserted this text. On 19 May you changed my edit, stating that “Irish teams were singing this years before Celtic”, without citing anything to support your claim. You have since asked me to allow “editors time to support the original wording”, yet the original wording was mine, and was changed by you.

On 24 May you removed Barryrob’s edit on the grounds that “Irish sports fans were singing this long before Celtic, so we need to find wording that communicates this relaity”. You didn’t provide a source.

On 6 June & 25 June you again inserted the word “later”. Still no source. The Irish Independent article, already used as a source within this section, makes no such distinction.

You have had 4 months to find sources supporting your opinion, and haven’t been able to back it up. Hippo43 (talk) 20:14, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

 * You are all over the place.

 * (1) I have reverted not one single edit that links this song with Irish sports teams. Your accusation is unsupported. Please produce diffs.

 * (2) The statement that "The Fields of Athenry" is sung at London Irish rugby club was added by editor Skaffman. The connection with Irish rugby union teams was made by editor Stubacca.  The association with Munster rugby was observed and noted by an unknown contributor.  The link with Galway and Gaelic games supporters was made by an anonymous editor posting from the University of Limerick.  These observations were made before I edited the page for the very first time in November 2007.

 * (2b) I don't follow this at all. Are you saying you are the editor previously known as Barryrob?

 * (3) I did produce a reference when the issue of sourcing was raised on the talk page for the very first time. It was to be hoped that you would collaborate and flag the section, providing a small amount of time for other editors to find sources for their not unreasonable edits.

 * So based on a misreading of the situation you stopped assuming good faith some time ago. That sounds about right. — eon, 21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

1. To my comment above “if Irish teams were indeed "singing this long before Celtic", please provide a citation before reverting” you replied “I didn't think the origin of the song, and its adoption at Irish games, was controversial.”

Yet you had 4 times changed the article regarding when the song was adopted by Celtic and various Irish teams, so you were obviously aware that other editors disagreed with you.

2. You’re right. My mistake

2b. No, I didn't say I was the same user. This is when you inserted “in more recent years”, without giving a source. (based on the claim that “Irish sports fans were singing this long before Celtic, so we need to find wording that communicates this relaity”)

3. You produced a source in your third reply to this section, not when it was raised for the very first time, and only after removing sourced material. Again, you cited the Template:Fact, which doesn’t support removing referenced material in favour of waiting for others to find sources.

When you disagreed with other editors’ contributions in the examples I mentioned above, you didn’t tag their edits and allow them time to find sources - you removed them, using a justification that you haven’t yet been able to confirm with sources of your own. Hippo43 (talk) 23:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Citation
The title of The Glasgow Herald piece is required. Has anyone access to LexisNexis? — eon, 00:19, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

 * This article appeared in The Herald - the newspaper changed its title in 1992. Hippo43 (talk) 07:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

 * We still need the title and author of the piece, as per WP:V. — eon, 19:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, and it will be easier to find if editors are looking in the right place. Hippo43 (talk) 19:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Citation (2)
Can anyone provide page numbers for this source? ''Kenny, Colum. Moments that Changed Us, Gill & Macmillan, 2005'' Hippo43 (talk) 19:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't have a page number, but an advanced Google Books search will verify the source. — eon, 21:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Tommy Sheridan
"Sheridan in row over song on Big Brother". --Mais oui! (talk) 15:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The Fields of Ballynafeigh
I suggest that 'The Fields of Ballnafeigh' deserves it's own page. Any takers? RicoRichmond (talk) 17:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * no 89.101.226.42 (talk) 21:17, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

republican lyrics in the verses
(Not sure if I should bring this up as it does conflict with my personal views but in order to help wikipedia...) There is also an extra republican lyric I've noticed is sometimes sung during the 2nd verse after the Crown line (which I won't mention the republican addition by name) that you can hear for yourselves here. Does anyone think that this should be included? The C of E.          God Save The Queen! (talk) 17:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "Fuck the crown" should definitely be included if it can be reliably sourced. Does anyone know any reliable sources that include "Fuck the crown", if the reliable source is to do with Celtic fans singing "Fuck the crown" that would be even better. If "Fuck the crown" can be reliably sourced, I assume you would have no objection to the inclusion of "Fuck the crown" The C of E? O Fenian (talk) 20:50, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have brought it up if I didn't feel it wouldn't help Wikipedia. Of Course as you well know, I don't like it as it really does go against my views but if it is included I will not take responsibility for it but I have included a source in my first paragraph but there is another here (Again I don't approve but if it helps Wikipedia...). On another note there is the Loyalist song Fathers Advice that is set to this tune (like Fields of Anfield Road) which I think would make a good inclusion (which themselves also have added lyrics that cause offense to some like the above one. the line is "F*** Bobby Sands, He's Dead") here for the lyrics and here for the additional line. The C of E.          God Save The Queen! (talk) 08:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed the current version of the Republican chorus section. While I know it is true, it was not reliably sourced to begin with. O Fenian (talk) 15:44, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And I have put them back in, with a new source (no 13). The section is now more than adequately sourced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.166.160.136 (talk) 16:59, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Considering the one new (primary) source did not even source the sentence you added it to, it is not "adequately sourced". If this alternate version is worthy of inclusion, it should have been dealt with by reliable secondary sources. O Fenian (talk) 17:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 * These are the lyrics from Gary Og:

Low lie the Fields of Athenry Where once we watched the small free birds fly (ooh baby let the free birds fly) Our love was on the wing (Sinn Féin) We had dreams and songs to sing (The I.R.A.) It's so lonely 'round the Fields of Athenry

These are the lyrics in this article:

Low lie the fields of Athenry Where once we watched the small free birds fly [Hey baby let the free birds fly!] Our love was on the wing [Sinn Féin!] We had dreams and songs to sing [I.R.A.!] It's so lonely 'round the fields of Athenry

The wording is pretty much EXACTLY the same, with the exception for ""Hey baby" instead of "ooh baby", which can easily be edited. So there is no discrepancy between the source and the text in the article.

The section we are discussing claims that this is frequently sung by the audience when REBEL bands are performing the song - Gary Og is a fairly prominent rebel artist, so the lyrics on his site is reliable enough to back up the claim that this is done in performances by REBEL bands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.166.160.136 (talk) 14:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

 * The sources provided are not close to adequate. YouTube links and pages that reproduce possibly copyrighted lyrics are not reliable sources.  And lyrics should not be reproduced, in toto, on the article page. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  15:04, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

 * The reference was added to the sentence "When performed by rebel bands, a republican version of the chorus is frequently sung, with the audience chanting back at the performer". It does not source that sentence. Triskelle is no use as a source, even ignoring that they should not be linked to due to their infringement of copyright by the mass re-posting of lyrics. According to this page "Furthermore we emphasise that this website is a hobby. Of course we do our utmost to provide correct information to the visitors of our website, but we are no scientists. Hence, we do not guarantee the correctness of the information provided". It is not a reliable source. I repeat my comment that if the republican chorus is so important to include it will have been covered in reliable secondary sources, not primary sources such as an artist's website or Youtube videos. O Fenian (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20060108/ai_n15989436/ <- The Sunday herald http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-9460103/Celtic-stars-caught-up-in.html <- Goliath http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=354350&cc=5739 <- Soccernet http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/33626/Celtic-players-IRA-blast.html <- The Sun http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2007/11/21/celtic-disown-rebel-fans-chief-in-ira-row-86908-20137880/ The Daily Record "Campbell insisted he wasn't referring to songs such as the Fields Of Athenry - about the 1840s Irish famine - but instead to people "actually chanting in support of the IRA"."

...and plenty more secondary sources, including the BBC, are available to confirm this incident. So the claim that there exists a republican version that includes pro-IRA-chants is obviously well-documented. If the songs appearance in films is deemed significant enough to be included in the article, then this incident DEFINITELY is significant enough. You just let me know which one of these sources you prefer, and I'll update. Also: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Celtic+stars+deny+IRA+chant%3B+SINGING+HOOPS+PLAYERS+CAUGHT+IN...-a0140602914 http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-140602914.html "Both players join in a rendition of the Fields Of Athenry. The song, a favourite of the Glasgow club's fans, is punctuated by shouts of "IRA" and …" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.166.160.136 (talk) 18:02, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that the text beginning "When performed by rebel bands..." should not be included, not only for the reasons given above, but simply because this is trivia. There are probably hundreds (thousands?) of songs whose lyrics have been modified or added to for all kinds of reasons, and it would be ridiculous to include this information in an encyclopedia. Hohenloh + 04:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The article already has information regarding a Liverpool version, a reggea version, a punk version, and a special version by the Dropkick Murphys (sourced only by their own website, so there is obviously not a problem with an artist website as a source!) so this isn't the only version mentioned by the article. More importantly, the republican version is significantly more controversial than the others, and singing the republican chants is a punishable offence in some areas. Obviously, this is significant enough to merit the inclusion.

Can I just say the following to whoever is objecting to the inclusion of the *fact* that audiences sometimes chant "IRA" back when bands play of Fields of Athenrye: your objection is not only unfounded as shown by the articles above, but it is suppressing important and useful information. My band recently performed this song in a very normal Irish pub in England on St Patrick's Day; we learned the song because we knew it was a popular Irish song - we are not a rebel band!! I was taken aback by literally half the pub or so, shouting back "IRA" at us. I repeat, the audience were everyday Irish young people in an Irish pub in England. I had observed people do this once in the past but assumed it was just a tiny handful of people that would do that. I can only assume that the *real* objection to mentioning this behaviour in the Wikipedia article, is on the basis of some kind of skewed ethical argument which isn't being spelt out in so many words - but if so, you are wrong. For example, to someone like me it would have been very helpful to have this fact included and discussed (e.g. history and reasons), because then I could have been forearmed and forewarned, and we might have even chosen not to play the song (although it isn't a sectarian song in itself) or at least we could have been prepared for the reaction. And by the way, our experience goes to show the complete nonsense in the attempt to marginalise this phenomenon by claiming that audiences only sing it back to "rebel" performers. Suppressing the facts is generally not a good way to encourage good ethics. Can someone please sort it out on the main page, it's very disappointing as Wikipedia is usually an excellent resource. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.253.77.45 (talk) 12:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * My fellow-musicians and I have performed this song hundreds of times around Ireland and I have heard "IRA" being sung only on a small minority of occasions, though "baby let the free birds fly" is more often sung. There are other local variations (as I mentioned above). Hohenloh + 17:34, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

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Real-life Tipperary couple: John and Mary Walsh, Mary got sent to penal colony 175 yrs ago
Pete St John wrote a preface to his song to publicize a real-life occurrence, which apparently happened in 1843. Mary Walsh was sent to a penal colony in Tasmania in 1843, separating her from John Walsh and her sons in Clonmel. It is unknown whether a recently found (in 2006) letter from John to Mary reached her. Pete St John is asking that his preface about John and Mary Walsh be read before his song gets sung, and that any corroborating information be spread about their fates. --Ancheta Wis   (talk  | contribs) 22:40, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Fields of Athenry


text:
Talk:Merovingian (The Matrix)

Untitled
Inductive reasoning is about cause and effect. Deductive reasoning is about logic. While inductive reasoning does grant one "foresight" of a kind (e.g. the sun will rise tomorrow) so does cause and effect - since they are the same thing, here. Fish-Face (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I feel that the original article did a poor job instilling the Merovingian's power to the reader. I hopefully have played him up to "minor-villian" status. --NorrYtt 04:52, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I doubt the Merovingian is a previous One theory is at all valid. What Persephone was referring to when she said the Merovingian used to be like Neo, she meant Merv used to love Persephone like Neo loved Trinity. And when Merovingian said "I have survived your predecessors", he meant he was not killed by the previous Ones. --Veemonkamiya 08:21, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I would speculate that the meaning of the quote "I have survived your predecessors" would imply that he has outlived the various iterations of Neo through the five reincarnations of the Matrix, not neccessarily fending off his attacks. -sean 10,mar 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.193.174 (talk) 05:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

What's it gonna be, Merv?
Hopefully Merv now has enough fleshing out on his page, so to speak, without too much speculation that isn't grounded by a point of dialogue or action in the movie series. We'll never really know, but I feel most strongly of the possibility that Merv is as old, if not older, than the Oracle and was a significant element in the early Matrix versions. You would think that Merv would be deleted by Agents if he had no purpose--so logicially he DOES serve a purpose in the Matrix of 'today'. Or, he has amassed so much power and has his hooks in so many elements of the system that removing him (much less finding him) would do more harm than good. I may have to take up The Matrix Online just to see what ol' Merv is up to. Spencerian 00:56, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A recent edit noted the many wine glasses in front of the Merovingian when we first see him in "Reloaded" were chalices, implying his namesake connection to the Frankish kings, the Grail, and Christ. I've reviewed that part of the movie and looked up the definition and examples of chalice in current events. While the idea has a bit of fascination, the use of the term chalice is loaded to imply the Christian connection in modern use. Also, chalices are generally not crystal and are typically opaque and ornate, with a long stem and other detail that can be only be done through metalworking. Most importantly there are several glasses of various sizes, but ostensibly the same type, in front of the Merovingian as well as Persephone. There are two large glasses of apparently identical size in front of both as well. If the writers wanted to give a more direct implication of Merv's self-importance or a Grail connection, there may have been one single metal chalice to imply a Grail connection and not several glasses. It seems that the selection of Merv's name is the implication that the character feels his actions (and thus his causes) are of supreme importance--and a Frankish king's appellation would be most appropriate for this distinction. From there, however, there is too little in the scene to suggest a Grail connection per se, Although the historical connection is appropriate, going further in the introspection of the wine glasses appears to be original research. Spencerian 21:10, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Goodness...
"Another theory is based on the number-play seen throughout the trilogy (i.e. Trinity is first seen in room 303, and Neo in room 101): The Merovingian's restaurant is named "Le Vrai" (which means "The Real" in French), and the initials "LV" appear on many of its walls. However, "LV" is also Roman numerals for "55", which given the previous number-play scheme could refer to "5". The Architect told Neo that there had been 5 "Ones" before Neo. Also, when the Merovingian is first seen at his table, he has 5 glasses at his seat, while Persephone (perhaps his analog of Trinity) has three chocolates on her plate."

Way too stretched and obscure for an encyclopedia. I'm tired of all this Matrix numerology speculation. - 84.237.120.114 16:58, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

DaVinci Code
*The Merovingian was named for the Merovingian dynasty of Frankish kings who believed themselves to be descendents of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene, and bearers of the Holy Grail.
 * Does anyone have a cite for that that isn't from The DaVinci Code? --24.21.101.75 06:28, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

--This seems to me to be a sly parody by the Wachowskis of "Holy Blood Holy Grail" which "The DaVinci Code" was based upon. Lambert Wilson more or less states in "The Ultimate Matrix Collection" that one who would consider himself a descendant of the Merovingian "Sang Real" might possess an air of inflated nobility (a-la Pierre Plantard).

Trivia section?
This seems to be completely unreferenced fan-speculation - does anyone have any sources to cite on this? QmunkE 19:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

There may be some confirmation to the most recent Trivia posting (last bullet point). The Merovingian is a very major character in the continuation of The Matrix series via The Matrix Online. I may post a summation of some of his doings in the past year of the game, without getting into too much detail, on the main page. Suffice it to say, for now, that newly awakened "redpills" who enter into the world of The Matrix Online can choose to ally themselves with Zion, the Machines, or The Merovingian himself. "Merovingians" ally themselves with him for a number of reasons, some of them feel more sympathy towards "exiles" and may feel themselves outcast, rebellious, renegades, outlaws, the underdog (Merovingians are the minority in Matrix Online), etc. Also suffice it to say that The Merovingian is not as much of a cartoonlike Hobbesean villain as one would suspect. He's a bit more complex than that. I may post more on this later. "The Matrix Online" Wiki article has some decent summations of the game thus far for those who wish to catch up on some of the storyline.

 * (I see no mention here of the Merovingian Bloodline which is what I originally thought the movies were referring to, the 13th Illuminati Bloodline where the Anti-Christ will come from. Is this not what they were referring to?) [moved from article] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.131.177.234 (talk • contribs) 21:31, September 16, 2006

Lambert Wilson interview?
In what interview did Wilson deny that the Merovingian was a "previous Neo"?

summary
there isnt one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.26.131.178 (talk) 03:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Request a redirect page (or similar) from "the Frenchman"
I didn't even know his name was Merovingian, he's just "the Frenchman" to me. A "the Frenchman" redirect page would be useful or a link on the "Frenchman" page 86.132.37.159 (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Deletion rationale
This character does not demonstrate any notability to the wider world - there is a lack of critique of his role in the films and he doesn't seem to be important enough to have his own article. --110.20.234.69 (talk) 22:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Merovingian (The Matrix)


text: User talk:199.0.195.37

title: User talk:199.0.195.37


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Rodenbaugh

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Block compression error; deletion pending. Joyous 01:45, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

Bill Rodenbaugh
A coder at ForumPlanet. Significant only within the Gamespy community, where he has achieved 'cult status among a few select users'. Not otherwise notable, as far as I can tell. --TenOfAllTrades 04:47, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notable, possible vanity article. --Deathphoenix 05:49, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Xezbeth  06:37, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable. JoaoRicardo 18:25, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, nn. Bart133 (t) 02:22, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Hopedale, Newfoundland and Labrador

Hopedale (Inuit language: Agvituk) is a town located in the north of Labrador, the mainland portion of the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Hopedale is the legislative capital of the Inuit Land Claims Area Nunatsiavut, and where the Nunatsiavut Assembly meets. As of the 2021 census, it has a population of 596.

History
Hopedale was founded as an Inuit settlement named Agvituk, Inuktitut for "place of the whales". In 1782, Moravian missionaries from Germany arrived in the area to convert the population. They renamed the settlement Hopedale (Hoffental in German) shortly afterwards. The Hopedale Mission is still standing and is thought to be the oldest wooden-frame building in Canada standing east of Quebec. As such, it was named a National Historic Site of Canada. It is currently run by the Agvituk Historical Society as a part of a museum on the history of missionaries in the area.

From 1953 to 1968, a joint Royal Canadian Air Force-United States Air Force's Hopedale Air Station was located on the hills above Hopedale. Civilian personnel lived in the main part of town. Since 1968, the area has remained abandoned other than maintenance of non-military communications towers nearby.

Nunatsiavut

On December 1, 2005, Hopedale became the legislative capital of the autonomous region of Nunatsiavut which is the name chosen by the Labrador Inuit when the Labrador Inuit Land Claims Agreement Act was successfully ratified by the Canadian Government and the Inuit of Labrador. Nain, further north, is the administrative capital. The land claim cedes limited self-rule for the Nunatsiavut government in Northern Labrador and North-Eastern Quebec, granting title and aboriginal rights. The land that comprises the Nunatsiavut government is called the Labrador Inuit Settlement Area, or LISA, which amount to approximately 72,500 km2. The Inuit of Labrador do not own this land per se, but they do have special rights related to traditional land use as aboriginals. That said, the Labrador Inuit will own 15,000 km2 within the Settlement Area, officially designated as Labrador Inuit Lands. The Agreement also provides for the establishment of the Torngat Mountains National Park Reserve, consisting of about 9,600 km2 of land within LISA. As legislative capital, Hopedale is the location of the Nunatsiavut Assembly Building.

Demographics
In the 2021 Census of Population conducted by Statistics Canada, Hopedale had a population of $596$ living in $193$ of its $208$ total private dwellings, a change of NaN% from its 2016 population of $574$. With a land area of 2.18 km2, it had a population density of in 2021.

The majority of people in Hopedale (79%) speak English as a first language, but a significant minority (21%) speak Inuktitut.

About 83% of the population identify themselves as Inuit, 16% are of mainly European descent, and 1% are of Punjabi origin.

About 87% of the population belongs to a Protestant denomination, about 2% are Roman Catholic, and another 1% are Sikh. About 10% are not affiliated with any religion.

Transportation
There are no roads that connect Hopedale with the rest of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Hopedale Airport, a small public airport, connects the area with small communities in Newfoundland and Labrador and connections beyond made via Goose Bay Airport. The airport was built in the mid 1960s to provide air support to former USAF Hopedale Air Station. Since 1968 the airport is used by civilians.

The airport handles only small turboprop aircraft or helicopters. There is only one service building at the airport. The airport is connected to Hopedale via Airstrip Road.

Between mid-June and mid-November (pending ice conditions), the ferry MV Kamutik W, operated by the Newfoundland and Labrador Government, provides weekly service from Goose Bay along the Atlantic Coast, with stops in Rigolet, Makkovik, Postville, Hopedale, Nain, and Natuashish. Small boats are used to access nearby areas by water.

Local land based transportation in the community is made by private vehicles (cars, trucks, ATV) and snowmobile in winter. There are only a few roads in the community, all gravel:
 * Airstrip Road - access to Hopedale Airport
 * American Road - former access road to USAF radar stations and barracks
 * Carpenter Road and Drive - serves new residential area
 * Government Road - former route home to non-military personnel for former USAF radar station
 * Nanuk Road
 * Water Road - road to main part of Hopedale

Services
Policing in Hopedale is provided by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police which has a Hopedale Detachment staffed by four officers. The current detachment was completed in 1994.

There is no hospital located in Hopedale and only basic medical services are provided by Hopedale Community Clinic. The clinic is operated by Newfoundland and Labrador Health Services and is staffed by three nurses/nurse practitioners. Physicians visit periodically, and are also available by video conference. Advanced care requires patients to be flown out of town by air ambulance to the nearest hospital, which is in Happy Valley-Goose Bay.

Hopedale Volunteer Fire Department is a small fire and rescue service with a single pumper stored at the fire hall located next to the RCMP detachment near Water Road.

Canada Post has a post office (19 Harbour Drive B) located in town.

Amos Comenius Memorial School at Nanuk Hill, with grades Kindergarten to Grade 12, is the only school in Hopedale.

DJ's Convenience, Big Land Grocery, Northland Enterprises (with Sylvia's Take Out) are the only stores selling food and other convenience goods in town.

Government
AngajukKâk are equivalent of mayor in Hopedale and are elected every four years. The incumbent is Marjorie Flowers.

Past AngajukKâk:

 * Judy Dicker, 2006-2010
 * Wayne Piercy, 2010-2014
 * Jimmy Tuttuak, 2014-2015

Local attractions
There are few local attractions:

 * Moravian Mission Complex and Museum
 * Mid-Canada Line Site 200 - a former American and RCAF facility and was the most easterly repeater radar station and with view of Hopedale from the highest point in town
 * Tropospheric scatter antennas and concrete base of former Radome
 * Amaguk Inn - offers local accommodation for visitors (18 rooms) and also sells local arts and crafts

Climate
Hopedale has a subarctic climate (Köppen: Dsc) with a August average of 12.3 C and February average of -16.4 C.

title: Hopedale, Newfoundland and Labrador


text:
Margherita Carosio

Margherita Carosio (7 June 1908 – 10 January 2005) was a leading Italian operatic coloratura soprano and actress, starring in Spanish films during the 1930s.

Her voice is preserved in many Parlophone and Ultraphon recordings made before World War II, as well as an HMV series made in London from the 1940s. She was still singing leading roles in her early sixties and was considered one of the leading bel canto sopranos of her day. She was born and died in Genoa.

Carosio is most often remembered today as the singer whose indisposition in January 1949 led to Maria Callas learning and singing the role of Elvira in Bellini's I puritani in five days while she was performing Brünnhilde in Wagner's Die Walküre at Teatro La Fenice in Venice.

Early life and career
Carosio was the daughter of composer Natale Carosio, who taught her how to sing as a child. Carosio has been described as being a skilled singer and having a light, coloratura voice.

Carosio first performed in public at the age of 14. In 1924, at age 16, she made her operatic debut in Novi Ligure at the Teatro Cavour, performing Lucia di Lammermoor. In 1928, she was recommended by soprano Margherita Sheridan to the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, to sing the role of Feodor in Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov with Feodor Chaliapin. The chorus sang in French, Carosio sang in Italian, and Chaliapin sang in Russian. In the same season, she also sang Musetta in La bohème.

She performed throughout Italy: in Bellini's La sonnambula, as Norina in Donizetti's Don Pasquale, and as Konstanze in Mozart's Il Seraglio. She played Oscar in Verdi's Un ballo in maschera at La Scala, where she performed often and to great acclaim. Some other roles include: Rosina in The Barber of Seville, Zerlina in Auber's Fra Diavolo, the Queen of Shemakhan in Rimsky-Korsakov's The Golden Cockerel, and Volkhova in his Sadko and the title role of Stravinsky's The Nightingale. She sang Aminta in the first Italian performances of Richard Strauss's Die schweigsame Frau as well as and Egloge in the 1935 world-premiere of Mascagni's Nerone, both at La Scala, where she continued to appear until 1955.

Carosio returned to London in 1946 with the visiting San Carlo company of Naples and played Violetta in La traviata, a role that British soldiers had seen her perform during the war. She later appeared with a scratch Italian company as Adina in Donizetti's L'elisir d'amore, which she had also sung at La Scala and recorded for EMI. Carioso also performed at La Scala in Menotti's Amelia Goes to the Ball, which she also recorded. Carioso had a brief career in Italian films, and even received turned down an offer from MGM in Hollywood.

Retirement and death
Carosio retired from the operatic stage in 1959 and for the next 40 years pursued a second career as a journalist and music critic in her hometown.

She died in 2005 at the age of 96.

title: Margherita Carosio


text:
WILM-LD

WILM-LD (channel 10) is a low-power Independent/MeTV affiliate station in Wilmington, North Carolina, United States, owned by the Capitol Broadcasting Company. The station's studios are located on Wrightsville Avenue (US 76) in Wilmington, and its transmitter is located in Delco, North Carolina. Master control and some internal operations are based at the facilities of sister station, NBC affiliate and company flagship WRAL-TV in Raleigh.

On December 31, 2016, WILM lost its CBS affiliation to a digital subchannel of ABC affiliate WWAY (channel 3) and became an independent station.

History
The current station is actually the second TV outlet to have the WILM calls. WILM-TV (proposed for Wilmington, Delaware) was granted a construction permit in 1953, but never made it to the air, surrendering its license in 1955. WILM would have broadcast on channel 83, the only U.S. TV station in history to be allocated the very top of the UHF spectrum.

The station began on April 3, 1989, as independent outlet W10BZ. It aired an analog signal on VHF channel 10 from a transmitter near the studios. W10BZ changed its call sign to WSSN-LP in 1995 when it joined the United Paramount Network (UPN). In 1999, Capitol Broadcasting acquired the station. On March 23, 2000, it became a CBS affiliate, filling a void created when previous CBS affiliate WJKA changed its calls to WSFX-TV and dropped the network to join Fox. WSSN changed its call sign to WILM-LP on that date as well. Before WILM gained the CBS affiliation, programming from that network was seen in Wilmington on cable from WNCT-TV in Greenville, WBTW in Florence, South Carolina, or WRAL.

WILM retained its UPN affiliation on a secondary basis until the network shut down and merged with The WB. After UPN and The WB merged to form The CW on September 18, 2006, cable-only WB 100+ affiliate "WBW" joined the new network through the CW Plus cable group. Fox's sister programming service MyNetworkTV was formed around the same time and aligned with new sign-on W47CK, leaving WILM as a full-time CBS station.

The station's low-power digital signal began broadcasting on UHF channel 40 in August 2008. This increased the station's effective radiated power from its former 75 watts (analog VHF) to 15 kW (digital UHF) which is the highest power available for U.S. low-power digital television. WILM's new transmitter was no longer centrally located in Wilmington itself but located alongside other local broadcast sites in Delco.

WILM is one of five Wilmington commercial television stations that agreed to end analog transmissions early and became digital-only on September 8, 2008. This move was intended to make the area the first all-digital market in the United States. On that date, WILM shut down its analog signal along with four other Wilmington television stations as part of the voluntary early digital transition. If this agreement had not happened, the decision to shut off analog transmission at any time would have been voluntary for WILM because Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations exempted low-power television stations from the 2009 analog shutdown. Its analog channel 10 identification is still used as its virtual channel.

In 2015, WILM signed on a translator on channel 24, WILT-LD, to better serve areas such as Monkey Junction, Carolina Beach, and Wrightsville Beach south to Southport and Oak Island.

In January 2016, sister station and Capitol Broadcasting flagship WRAL announced it would drop its CBS affiliation due to a contract impasse, effective February 29, 2016. Immediately, WRAL struck a pending affiliation agreement to switch to NBC. On March 30, 2016, CBS announced it would pull its affiliation from WILM and transfer it to the second subchannel of WWAY on January 1, 2017. WILM subsequently became an independent station, adding additional syndicated programming, and promising increased coverage of local college sports.

Newscasts
WILM-LD simulcasts WRAL's newscasts weekdays from 6 to 7 a.m. and at 6 p.m., with local weather inserts for the Wilmington area. This practice dates to its tenure with CBS; its studios were not large enough for a full-fledged news department.

From March 10, 2008, until February 27, 2009, through a news share agreement, WWAY produced a prime time newscast weeknights at 7 p.m.

Subchannels
The station's signal is multiplexed:

Translators

 *  33 Wilmington
 *  Wilmington

title: WILM-LD


text:
Federal University of Paraná

The Federal University of Paraná (Universidade Federal do Paraná, UFPR) is a public university headquartered in Curitiba, Paraná, Brazil. UFPR is considered to be one of the oldest universities in Brazil.

UFPR ranks as 37th best university in Latin-America and it is among the 651-700 best universities in the world, according to QS World University Rankings. It is placed as the eighth best university in Brazil in the latest "Ranking Universitário Folha (RUF)", published by the nation's largest newspaper.

Nowadays, its facilities are spread over the capital Curitiba and other cities of the State of Paraná. It offers 124 undergraduate degree courses, 44 doctorate, 66 masters and 5 professional masters programs, apart from a number of lato sensu programs (mostly paid one-year specializations) - see Higher-ed degrees in Brazil.

History
In 1892, José Francisco da Rocha Pombo, an intellectual of the state of Paraná would have initiated the construction of the university, but his project was frustrated by the Federalist Movement.

Twenty years later, Paraná had a reduced number of intellectuals (nine doctors and four engineers), but it was in true development because of the production of the yerba mate.

Moreover, at this time, the Contestado War appeared as an incentive to the efforts of political leaderships concerning the creation of a university. In this context, Victor Ferreira do Amaral, deputy and director of public instruction of Paraná, started the effective creation of the university.

On December 19, 1912, the university was established and, in 1913, it has initiated its activities as a private institution in an old building situated on Comendador Araújo street. The first courses offered were Juridical and Social Sciences, Engineering, Medicine and Surgery, Commerce, Dentistry, Pharmacy and Obstetrics. After the establishment of the university, Victor Ferreira do Amaral, who was also its first president, initiated the construction of a central building in a land donated by the municipal government.

Due to the economic recession caused by the World War I, difficulties started to appear. In 1920, a federal law determined the closing of all universities. In a contradictory measure, the federal government created the Universidade do Rio de Janeiro, currently Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro (Federal University of Rio de Janeiro). The alternative to this law was to split the UFPR in several colleges.

Throughout several years, efforts in order to restore the university took place. Only in the beginning of the fifties the colleges were reunited once again in the University of Paraná, its federalization happening just after that, in 1951, when the university became a public and free-of-charge institution.

After its federalization, a process of expansion began with the construction of the Clinic's Hospital (Portuguese: Hospital de Clínicas da Universidade Federal do Paraná) in 1953, the Reitoria Campus in 1958 and the Polytechnic Center in 1961. The Polytechnic Center campus occupies 617,128 m2.

Historical Building
The construction placed in the Santos Andrade Square began to be built in 1913, being a project of the military engineer Baeta de Faria. Its inauguration occurred in 1915.

Seven years later, in 1923, two lateral parts were added, according to the original project. The building of the right sector was ended in 1925 and was designated to the Engineering graduation course. In the following year, the left sector had been finalized and it passed to serve the Dentistry course. Other additions were made to the right side of the building and it has received in its totality new paint in 1940. The building was extended towards XV de Novembro Street and, in 1952, new works in the right section led to the demolition of part of the lateral façade built in 1940.

In 1954, the building occupied a whole block between the Santos Andrade Square, XV de Novembro Street, Presidente Faria Street and Alfredo Bufren Lane. The last modifications were made: a new façade with several columns and a wide set of staircases were projected and the covered dome was eliminated. The inauguration of the neoclassical, 17,000 square meter building, took place in 1955.

In the year on 1999, the mayor of Curitiba signed a law that made this building the official symbol of the city.

Master Programs

 * Physical Education
 * Pharmacology
 * Biochemistry
 * Genetics
 * Zoology
 * Botany
 * Child and Teenager Health
 * Pharmaceutical Sciences
 * Surgery
 * Internal Medicine and Health Sciences
 * Nursery
 * Geodesic Sciences
 * Geology
 * Geography
 * Coastal and Oceanic Systems
 * Environmental Development
 * Applied Mathematics
 * Information Systems
 * Chemistry
 * Physics
 * Education
 * Anthropology
 * Sociology
 * History
 * Philosophy
 * Psychology
 * Languages and Literature
 * Design
 * Music
 * Economical Development
 * Business Administration
 * Accounting and Finance
 * Law
 * Numerical Methods for Engineering
 * Water Resources and Environmental Engineering
 * Biotechnological Process
 * Food Engineering
 * Inter-disciplinary Themes on Engineering
 * Electrical Engineering
 * Civil Engineering
 * Mechanical Engineering
 * Chemical Engineering
 * Political Sciences
 * Bioinformatics
 * Teaching of Environmental Science

Technical High School
Besides the above-mentioned courses, it offers high school education through its Technical High School.

Admissions
Students are admitted by an entrance exam, known as the vestibular, which consists of two parts:

 * Part I is composed of 80 multiple-choice questions including nine questions of each of the following subjects: Portuguese, Literature, Chemistry, Mathematics, Physics, Geography, History and Biology, plus eight questions of a foreign language which can be chosen from English, French, Spanish, German or Italian.

Over 50,000 people apply every year and sit for exactly the same exam. After two weeks time or so, 15,000 are called to take the Part II (or Phase II) written exams.

 * Part II is composed of a Portuguese test which covers five (previously seven) compulsory writing essays. Certain courses require that the candidate take an additional one or two exams involving open-questions in Chemistry, Mathematics, Physics, Geography, History, Biology, Philosophy or Sociology, the specific exam choice being determined by correlation between the subject and each major course. Engineering candidates, for example, take Mathematics and Physics tests.

The wait for the results of Part II is much longer and the results may take something between 4 and 7 weeks. A list with all the admitted candidates comes out usually in the middle of January—on the same day as the Mud-bath Party sponsored by the Central Directory of Students (Portuguese: Diretório Central dos Estudantes, DCE) occurs.

Laboratories

 * Centro de Documentação e Pesquisa de História dos Domínios Portugueses – CEDOPE
 * Centro de Capacitação e Consultoria do Departamento de Ciência e Gestão da Informação do Setor de Ciências Sociais Applicadas – 3CGI
 * Centro de Ciência de Segurança Computacional - CCSC
 * Centro de Computação Científica e Software Livre – C3SL
 * Centro de Estudos do Mar - CEM
 * Centro de Microscopia Eletrônica – CME
 * Centro de Pesquisa e Processamento de Alimentos – CEPPA
 * Ciências Sociais Applicadas – CCCGI
 * Centro de Estudos de Engenharia Civil Prof. inaldo Ayres Vieira – CESEC
 * Grupo IMAGO de Pesquisa em Visão Computacional, Processamento de Imagens e Computação Gráfica
 * Instituto de Tecnologia para o Desenvolvimento – LACTEC
 * Laboratório de Análises Clínicas veterinárias
 * Laboratório de Acústica e conforto Ambiental
 * Laboratório de Eletroquímica de Superfícies e Corrosão – LESC
 * Laboratório de Estudos em Monitoramento e Modelagem Ambiental – LEMMA
 * Laboratório de Ictiologia Estuarina - Ictiologia UFPR
 * Laboratório de Inventário Florestal
 * Laboratório de Minerais e Rochas – LAMIR
 * Laboratório de Nutrição Animal do Departamento de Zootecnia
 * Laboratório de Paisagismo
 * Laboratório de Parasitologia Clínica Veterinária - LPCV
 * Laboratório de Pesquisas Hidrogeológicas – LPH
 * Laboratório de Proteção Florestal
 * Laboratório de Matriz Extracelular e Biotecnologia de Venenos
 * Laboratório de Neurobiologia
 * Laboratório de Citogenética Humana
 * Laboratório de Genética Molecular Humana – LGMH
 * Laboratório de Metabolismo Celular
 * Laboratório de Imunogenética e Histocompatibilidade
 * Laboratório de Óptica de Raios-X e Instrumentação – LORXI
 * Laboratório de Superfícies e Interfaces – LSI
 * Laboratório de Genética de Microorganismos – LabGeM
 * Laboratório de Bioquimíca e Biofísica de Macromoléculas
 * Laboratório de Anestesia e Analgesia Veterinária - LABEST
 * Núcleo de Fixação de Nitrogênio - NFIX
 * Núcleo de Redes sem Fio e Redes Avançadas - NR2

And many more

Libraries
The university has over 400,000 books and theses as well as thousand of periodicals that, for now, can't be accessed through its intranet, but will be in the future.

Campi

 * In Curitiba:

 * Campus Juvevê
 * Campus Batel
 * Campus Centro
 * Campus Reitoria
 * Campus Ciências Agrárias/Cabral
 * Campus III/Centro Politécnico
 * Campus III/Escola Técnica
 * Campus III/Jardim Botânico

 * Other cities:
 * Campus Palotina – Palotina
 * Campus Estudos do Mar – Pontal do Paraná
 * Campus Litoral – Matinhos
 * Campus Jandaia do Sul – Jandaia do Sul

Publications

 * Archives of Veterinary Science
 * Acta Biologica Paranaense
 * Boletim Paranaense de Geociências
 * Educar em Revista
 * Jornal de Ciências do Exercício e do Esporte
 * Jornal do Hospital das Clínicas
 * Revista de Ciências Humanas
 * Revista de Sociologia e Política
 * Revista do Departamento e Programa de Pós-Graduação
 * Revista Eletrônica de Musicologia
 * Revista Floresta
 * Revista Interação
 * Revista Letras
 * Scientia Agraria
 * Revista de Engenharia Térmica

Notable alumni

 * Blairo Maggi — agrobusiness entrepreneur
 * Clèmerson Merlin Clève — jurist, lawyer, and entrepreneur
 * Dalton Trevisan — writer, Camões Prize winner
 * Daniel Przybysz — radiation oncologist
 * Edson Fachin — jurist, lawyer
 * Edith Fanta — Antarctic researcher
 * Enedina Alves Marques — civil engineer, first Black woman to receive an engineering degree in Brazil
 * Henry Bugalho — philosopher and writer
 * Jaime Lerner — governor of Paraná (1995-2002)
 * Jorge Reis-Filho — scientist
 * Laurentino Gomes — writer and journalist, Jabuti Prize winner
 * Marçal Justen Filho — jurist, lawyer
 * Newton da Costa — logician and mathematician
 * Roberto Requião — governor of Paraná (2003-2010) and senator since 2011
 * Tirone E. David — medical doctor
 * Wilson Martins — politician (Governor of Piauí from April 1, 2010, to April 2, 2014.)

title: Federal University of Paraná


text: User talk:65.30.199.50

title: User talk:65.30.199.50


text:
Talk:Fixed-point theorems in infinite-dimensional spaces

Linas, you wrote:

 * Another variant of this theorem states that if U is an open subset of C containing the origin (zero), then any bounded, contractive map f on the closure of U has one, or both of the following properties: (1) f has a unique fixed point, or (2) there is a point x on the boundary of U such that f(x) = a x for some 0 < a < 1.

I don't understand why you need U be a subset of C. It looks to me that you can get away just by requiring U to be open and bounded and not mentioning any C at all. This assuming that your C is the one from the previous paragraph.

So could you please enlighten me. Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov | talk 04:54, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Because the statement applies to the closure of U ... actually, I'm not sure, I scratched my head about this as well. My first impulse is to agree with what you suggest, but I remember puzzling over this as well. The book that I was reading at the time seemed to be careful to make a distinction and also, irritatingly didn't explaining why...  I kept that distinction, under the "better safe than sorry" theorem, since I already get into a lot of trouble by going too fast and assuming things that are false... linas 01:16, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Do you happen to still have the book? Note that I removed that text for the time being, since I was not sure of its accuracy and since it can be easily put back if proved correct. Back then I also did not know if you got it from a book or from memory. The reason I see C as unnecessary, is because it can be always manufactured as the convex envelope of U.

 * If you find your book, I have another question. Is the Schauder fixed point theorem mentioned here the same as the Leray-Shauder theorem (I think I encountered that one a while ago). Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov 01:33, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * They're library books, and I have to make a special trip to get to the library :( That, and all the good books are always permanently checked out by someone else anyway ... I'll try to look again. linas 22:06, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I will put the paragraph back again the way it is. But one day, when you run into the book, probably that is something to check. Oleg Alexandrov 23:56, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ryll-Nardzewski subsumes Kakutani?
How or why does Ryll-Nardzewski subsume Kakutani? The former is about fixed points of maps, the latter about fixed points of correspondences. AxelBoldt 05:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, even in the case of maps, Ryll-Nardzewski does not, as is, subsume Kakutani; indeed, Kakutani is about all compact convex sets in a locally convex (Hausdorff) TVS, whilst Ryll-Nardzewski is only for the weakly compact in a normed space under isometries. The difference is huge (and accounts for the whole notion of amenable groups). I'll delete the wrong statement.128.178.14.162 (talk) 07:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The statement of Schauder's Fixed Point Theorem
In the statement, it is said that the image should be countably compact. But we are in a Banach space here, which is a metric space. In a metric space, the notion of countable compactness is equivalent to the notion of compactness. Right? So it's enough to say that the image should be compact. /Janzon

 * Yes, I thought that was strange too - nobody talks about "countably compact" sets in a metric space (except to point out that they are just the compact sets). So I've changed it. --Zundark 17:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


text: User talk:68.227.19.148

title: User talk:68.227.19.148


text:
WNCT-TV

WNCT-TV (channel 9) is a television station licensed to Greenville, North Carolina, United States, serving Eastern North Carolina as an affiliate of CBS and The CW Plus. Owned by Nexstar Media Group, the station maintains studios on South Evans Street in Greenville, and its transmitter is located in Grifton Township along NC 118.

History
The station signed on December 22, 1953, and aired an analog signal on VHF channel 9. It is the fourth-oldest continuously operating television station in North Carolina (behind Charlotte's WBTV, Greensboro's WFMY-TV, and Winston-Salem's WXII-TV) and the oldest station in the eastern part of the state. The station was originally owned by The Daily Reflector along with WGTC radio (1590 AM and beginning in 1963, 107.7 FM).

It has always been a primary CBS affiliate but also carried some ABC shows along with Washington-based NBC outlet WITN-TV (channel 7). It became an exclusive CBS affiliate when WNBE-TV (channel 12, now WCTI-TV) signed on from New Bern in 1963. WNCT maintained a secondary relation with DuMont from 1953 until the network shut down in 1955. From 1959 until 1998, it aired a weekday morning talk show known as Carolina Today, which included local hosts such as Robert Allen (aka "Slim Short"), Jim Woods and Judge Charles H. Whedbee. WNCT was the first station in the area to broadcast in color.

Roy H. Park bought The Daily Reflector and WNCT in 1961, followed by WGTC radio in 1963. The radio stations changed their calls to WNCT-AM-FM by 1965, at which time the TV station added the "-TV" suffix to its callsign. The television station remained the flagship of Park Communications until it merged with Media General in 1997.

WNCT-TV served part of the Wilmington market (mostly Pender County) until that city got its own CBS affiliate, WJKA-TV, in 1984. When that outlet switched to Fox in 1994 and became WSFX-TV, WNCT resumed serving as the default CBS affiliate for parts of the Wilmington area until low-power WILM-LP (now WILM-LD) switched its affiliation to CBS in 2000. However, WNCT still served some parts of that area which could not obtain WILM's off-air signal and/or on cable until 2017 when WWAY acquired the CBS affiliation for its second digital subchannel.

The station's CBS high-definition signal was picked up by DirecTV on January 7, 2009, and this is also carried on Dish Network. WNCT's broadcasts became digital-only, effective June 12, 2009. On that date at 6:30 in the evening, the station signed off its analog signal for the final time.

WNCT-DT2
WNCT-DT2, branded Eastern North Carolina CW, is the CW Plus-affiliated second digital subchannel of WNCT-TV. It originally carried a full-time image of WNCT's Doppler weather radar. The current iteration of the channel launched on the network's first day of operation on September 18, 2006 (when The WB and UPN merged; WCTI-DT3 was the UPN affiliate, which was also shut down), replacing the market's former WB affiliate "WGWB", which had launched on September 21, 1998.

News operation
Even before a full news department was established, WNCT offered weather forecasts to area farmers. For coverage of severe weather events such as hurricanes and floods, the station received a national Edward R. Murrow Award and was the smallest television station to get this recognition. It also won a Service to America Award.

In terms of ratings, Eastern North Carolina is usually not fiercely competitive during sweeps periods. Generally, WNCT trades the ratings crown with WITN and WCTI. In July 2008, this station became the area's most watched outlet after taking first place weeknights at 6 and 11. But since then, it has fallen to 3rd place weeknights at 6. As of May 2010, WITN has won the sign-on to sign-off honors for two consecutive ratings periods. The NBC station won all news time periods except for the weekday noon time slot.

In the late-1990s, WNCT began producing the market's original prime time newscast on Fox affiliate WFXI/WYDO (then owned by Piedmont Television) through a news share agreement. Known on-air as Fox News at 10, the broadcast could be seen every night for thirty minutes. Although it featured most of WNCT's on-air team, the show did maintain a separate news anchor. The outsourcing arrangement was terminated in December 2007 after WCTI became a sister station to WFXI/WYDO through their management by the Bonten Media Group.

Initially in January 2008, WCTI began repeating its nightly 6 o'clock newscast in the 10 o'clock time slot on WFXI/WYDO. Eventually, a new nightly prime time broadcast (produced by WCTI) was added to the Fox affiliate on January 28. Meanwhile, WNCT began airing a new newscast at 10 on its CW-affiliated subchannel. This program is currently known as 9 on Your Side at 10 on The CW and can be seen every night for a half-hour competing with the WFXI/WYDO broadcast (seen for an hour on weeknights, thirty minutes on weekends).

During weather forecast segments, the station features a live NOAA National Weather Service weather radar originating from the Local Forecast Office on Roberts Road in Newport (on-air, this is known as "Live VIPIR 9"). In addition to the main studios, WNCT operates bureaus in New Bern on Center Avenue (along US 17 BUS/Clarendon Boulevard) and in Jacksonville (on South Marine Boulevard/US 17 BUS). On October 17, 2013, WNCT became the area's third television outlet to upgrade news production to high definition behind WCTI and WITN. The station provides weather updates for WZGO-FM 91.1, WIKS-FM 101.9, WMGV-FM 103.3, and WNCT-FM 107.9.

Subchannels
The station's signal is multiplexed:

title: WNCT-TV


text:
Talk:Líneas Aéreas Azteca

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title: Talk:Líneas Aéreas Azteca


text:
Céline Hervieux-Payette

Céline Hervieux-Payette (born April 22, 1941) is a former Canadian senator who served as the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate of Canada from 2007 to 2008, the first woman to hold this position. She was previously a Liberal member of Parliament from 1979 to 1984 and a cabinet minister in the government of Pierre Trudeau in the 1980s. She retired from the Senate on April 22, 2016, upon reaching the mandatory retirement age of 75.

Career
In the 1970s, Hervieux-Payette served as a political aide to the Quebec government of Premier Robert Bourassa. She also served as an administrator, as president and commissioner of the Le Gardeur School Board, and as director of public relations for Steinberg Inc., a Quebec grocery and department store business.

Hervieux-Payette was first elected to the House of Commons of Canada in the 1979 election as the Liberal Member of Parliament for Mercier. She was re-elected in the 1980 election and became parliamentary secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada. In 1983, she was appointed by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau to the Canadian Cabinet as Minister of State (Fitness and Amateur Sport). She then served as Minister of State (Youth) from January to June 1984.

She was not appointed to the Cabinet of John Turner, who succeeded Trudeau as Liberal leader and prime minister in June 1984. She stood as a candidate in the 1984 election but was defeated.

She returned to the private sector and served as vice president of business ventures at the SNC Group, an engineering and manufacturing firm, from 1985 to 1989. From 1991 to 1995, she was vice president of Regulatory and Legal Affairs for Fonorola Inc., a telecommunications firm. She began working as a counsellor for Fasken Martineau DuMoulin in 1995.

Hervieux-Payette attempted to re-enter the House of Commons in the 1988 and 1993 elections but was defeated in both attempts. In 1995, she returned to Parliament when she was appointed to the Senate of Canada by Jean Chrétien.

On January 18, 2007, Hervieux-Payette was appointed Leader of the Opposition in the Senate by Liberal leader Stéphane Dion, whom she had supported during the leadership race. She also became Quebec lieutenant for Stéphane Dion on October 16, 2007.

On November 3, 2008, she was succeeded as Leader of the Opposition by Jim Cowan.

On October 30, 2014, she tabled Bill S-224 to propose a National Seal and Seafood Products Day. The Bill, renamed An Act respecting National Seal Products Day, under the number S-208, proposed May 20 as a national day to celebrate Canadian seal products. The Bill finally was adopted by both the Senate and the House of Commons and received the Royal Assent on May 16, 2017, becoming a Canadian law

On June 11, 2015, she tabled Bill S-231 An Act to amend the Firearms Act, the Criminal Code and the Defence Production Act, which would have changed a number of provisions for private ownership of firearms. The bill died on the order paper on August 2, 2015, when Parliament was dissolved.

On April 12, 2016, ten days before her mandatory retirement date, she tabled Bill S-223 'An Act to amend the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code and to make consequential changes to other Acts', which revisited many of the same measures in the previous Bill S-231.

Views
Hervieux-Payette became involved in controversy in March 2006 when she responded to an American couple's letter to all Canadian Senators protesting the annual seal hunt in Newfoundland. The American, Anne McLellan, told Canadian television channel, CTV Television Network, that her family cancelled plans to vacation in Canada, describing the seal hunt as "appalling".

In her responding letter, Hervieux-Payette wrote that what she finds horrible is "the daily massacre of innocent people in Iraq, the execution of prisoners – mainly blacks – in American prisons, the massive sale of handguns to Americans, and the destabilization of the entire world by the American government's aggressive foreign policy, etc."

She later clarified her remarks, arguing that Americans should worry about their own country's behaviour before pointing fingers at other nations. Bill Graham, leader of the Liberal official opposition, subsequently issued a statement saying that the letter "reflect her personal opinions and not those of the Liberal Party of Canada."

On April 23, 2009, Hervieux-Payette unveiled the Universal Declaration on the Ethical Harvest of Seals, seeking support from countries, NGO's and scientists to establish universal standards on seal harvest.

On May 28, 2015, Hervieux-Payette sent an email to the Speaker of the Senate, the Speaker of the House of Commons, all senators, and all members of Parliament complaining about the presence of armed police officers at the doors into the Senate. She stated, "In my opinion, it is a serious mistake to arm police officers with these weapons. No matter what, the first victims of an attack will probably be police officers, because people who wish to do harm do not give advance notice. Security that relies on firepower has proven to be ineffective, and millions of Americans have paid the price for this false assumption with their lives." The letter went on to conclude that because the attacker on October 22 was killed by the Sergeant at Arms and not the police, the presence of armed police was therefore unnecessary.

title: Céline Hervieux-Payette


text:
Discretionary review

Discretionary review is the authority appellate courts have to decide which appeals they will consider from among the cases submitted to them. This offers the judiciary a filter on what types of cases are appealed, because judges have to consider in advance which cases will be accepted. The appeals court will then be able to decide substantive cases with the lowest opportunity cost. The opposite of discretionary review is any review mandated by statute, which guides appellate courts about what they can and cannot do during the review process.

The advantage to discretionary review is that it enables an appellate court to focus its limited resources on developing a coherent body of case law, or at least it is able to focus on making decisions in a consistent fashion (in jurisdictions where case law is not recognized). The disadvantage is that it reduces the ability of litigants to seek review of incorrect decisions of lower courts. However, the problem with allowing appeals of right through all appellate levels is that it encourages parties to exploit every technical error of each level of the court system as a basis for further review. Discretionary review forces parties to always concentrate their resources on persuading the trial court to get it right the first time around (rather than assuming an appellate court will "fix it later"), thus increasing the overall efficiency of the judicial system. Of course, it also leaves them at the mercy of the discretion of the trial court.

Europe Commission on Human Rights
The European Commission on Human Rights exercised discretionary review against the petitions it received under the European Convention on Human Rights by rejecting those that it determined were ill-founded and show no apparent violation, which has allowed it to manage its caseload. By doing so, the Commission has evolved from a "service organisation" to a "commonweal organisation", whose decisions create legal precedent.

Ireland
The 1937 Constitution of Ireland originally provided a right of appeal to the Supreme Court for all cases from the High Court. A 2013 amendment introduced a new Court of Appeal, above the High Court and below the Supreme Court, which is the usual court of final appeal. The Supreme Court now has discretion whether to hear appeals from the Court of Appeal or, exceptionally, directly from the High Court.

United States
For the Supreme Court of the United States, this discretion is termed the granting of a writ of certiorari ("cert"). This discretion was not granted to the Court until 1891, after its docket became clogged with pro forma appeals from lower courts. The Congress then created the United States courts of appeals system divided into now twelve regional circuits, with the Supreme Court generally only hearing cases from the appellate level or from the highest state court. The Judiciary Act of 1925 further expanded certiorari, authorizing the court to determine any case from a lower level concerning "federal questions of substance". Today, 98 percent of federal cases are decided at the appellate level. In 1988, Congress further limited appeals with the Supreme Court Case Selections Act, eliminating the right of appeal from certain state court decisions construing federal law.

A similar model holds in most U.S. state judiciaries, with discretionary review only available to the state's supreme court, and the appeals courts bound to hear all appeals. In North Carolina, the supreme court's choice to exercise discretionary review depends not on whether the case was decided correctly with regard to the defendant's guilt, but on whether the particular legal questions raised in the appeal have a public interest, involve important legal principles, or conflict with precedents set by prior supreme courts. In Texas, discretionary review is granted to both of the state's supreme courts (Texas is one of two states with separate supreme courts for civil and criminal cases) for all but death penalty cases, which the Court of Criminal Appeals is required to review, bypassing the Texas Courts of Appeals.

title: Discretionary review