text:
Talk:Homophobia/Archive 2

I did a "snapshot" of the User Talk page for a moment of time (User Talk: Revision as of 04:52, 3 Jul 2004 ), as chronology was not clear in previous approach. Then deleted duplication from current (as of 10 Feb 04) Talk Page. Then compared this page to current "archive2" page and captured differences.

NPOV ?
It seems to me that this article is highly NPOV. I will be giving a detailed description of its faults next, but overall it gives the incorrect impression that the term homophobia is not widely accepted or widely disputed term. The fact remains that while homophobia is not a psychaitric term, it is a term widely used to describe prejudice against homosexuals.

 * k - my comments inline. Martin

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] First of all, I would like to note that none of edits actually deleted any of the text in the article except where it seemed to make little or no sense or be to confusing or POV to rescue. Rather than blindly reverting my edits, perhaps this should've been taken into account. --Axon

 *  Unlike agoraphobia and some other phobias, homophobia is not a psychiatric term. There is no such thing as clinical homophobia.

Doing a quick search of the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association came up with several hits for this term. It may well be correct to say there is no such thing as 'clinical homophobia' - although some evidence to back this up would be useful - but it certainly appears to be widely accepted by these worthy institutions.

 * The APA discuss homophobia (they discuss many things), but they do not regard it as a bona fide phobia, nor do they seek to define the term. The evidence we had to back this up was a psychologist - see old Talk. The APA also discusses hosiery - this does not mean that hosiery is a psychological or psychiatric term. --mrd

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] Regardless, mentioning this in the first paragraph without even properly defining the use of the term homophobia first strikes me as being highly POV which is why I moved it to the definitions section (directly) below. Psychiatrists don't use the term hosiery, but I don't see mention that 'hosiery is not a pscychiatric term' in the first paragraph in the hosiery article either. So, other than to further someone's POV agenda that homophobia doesn't exist, why mention it here? Similarly, it isn't mentioned under xenophobia because, on assumes, that information is obvious. Also, it does not mention that several studies on homphobia are underway and that homophobia is a term in commmon usage amongst psychiatrist and psychologists... highly POV. --Axon

Similarly, no mention is made of the various legal definitions of homophobia that exist in gay panic defense and hate crime legislation.

 * [mrd] I guess nobody was aware of them - thank you for adding a brief stub - though more information would be helpful. --mrd

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] I think the linked articles in question are more than sufficient surely? Why repeat matter there, here?

 * The word homophobia is also sometimes used to characterize anyone who disapproves of homosexual behavior. This use of the term is considered unfair or incorrect by many who feel that there are rational reasons to oppose homosexuality.

This information is repeated below and I see no reason why it is repeated at the start of the page, esp. considering it doesn't reperesent the opposing view in a fair or NPOV manner.

 * [mrd] k - we can cut the second sentence, but I think we need to keep the first. --mrd

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] I still don't understand what was wrong with my definition of homophobia and why it was automatically deleted: most people agree with my definition, even if they disagree as to whether it exists or not. --Axon

 * Some people, especially in the gay rights movement, use the term to mean any sort of disapproval of homosexuality, whether subtle or explicit, unconscious or conscious, completely unreasoning or in some way principled.

The suggestion here is that it is only gay rights advocates use the term.

 * [mrd] The suggestion is that it is especially, but not only, people in the gay rights movement who use the term homophobia in this particular manner. It does not say, or suggest, that only gay rights advocates use the term in this manner. --mrd

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] I notice that despite the fact that I moved the highly POV 'Deliberate Blurring?' section to the more NPOV 'Opposition to the definition of homophobia' section, right next to the 'Opposition to homophobia' section. Why revert my changes without noticing this? This section dresses up opinion and POV as fact, it assumes that are rational opposition to homosexuality can be held, when there is an obvious controversy and debate over this issue. Therefore, it is certainly not neutral. I would rather it attributed these opinions to those who actually hold them: people in the anti-gay lobby, religious groups, etc. than just assert them as fact --Axon

"It is usually not the case, for homophobic persons, that the basis of their attitudes towards homosexuality is rational reasoning, or intellectual argumentation. Such endeavors have, as a rule, been added afterwards, to try to give the homophobia a nicer and more respectable framing. However, these attempts to argue intellectually against homosexuality are utter failures."  It can be argued that this use of the term homophobia is self-contradictory, since a phobia does not have rational motives.

[Martin] Nowhere do this quote claim that homophobia is rational: rather, the author is claiming that attempts to disguise their homophobia as reasoning. This sentence seems a little out of place and the quote doesn't make any sense in this context.

 * [mrd] The quote claims that it is usually not the case that homophobia is rational, but allows that in some unusual cases, as exceptions to the "rule", homophobia can be rational. I confirmed this by emailing Niclas Berggren, incidentally - see old Talk. --mrd

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:54] I still think the quote is misleading and this segment is confusing and somewhat superfluous. Perhaps eliciting a better/cleare quote from the author would be an idea. --Axon

 * The use of the term homophobic to imply irrationality is considered an emotive tactic, and some people have stated it as a reason for alienation from the gay rights movement, or insisted that their opposition is grounded on solid facts.

Totally POV: the above opinion is mostly maintained by anti-gay lobbbyists and no where is this made clear.

 * I think most people would accept that homophobia is an emotive word, meaning that it raises strong emotions. A case study would be useful here - I'll see if I can dig something up. --mrd

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] Homophobia is certainly an emotive topic, but that's besides the point. The use of 'emotive tactic' is highly pejorative and suggests deceit and manipulation on the part of 'gay rights advocates'. The only people who I've ever heard make the 'alienation' claim are anti-gay lobbyists or religious groups. There is absolutely no way this sentence is NPOV. Perhaps if you find a study to 'prove' this, if it is even provable, maybe, but otherwise it should be deleted or otherwise attributed to opinion in a more fair and neutral manner. --Axon

The statement 'is consider emotive' is highly POV yet is stated as a matter of fact. In fact, the 'deliberate blurring' is conjecture and opinion dressed up as fact. Similarly, why would it alienate those opposed to the gay rights movement against the gay rights movement: sure they are already alienated from each other? -- Axon

 * [Martin] Some people say that they are not opposed to gay rights, but feel alienated from the gay rights movement by what they consider an emotive tactic of labelling opponents as homophobic. They may be lying - the reader must judge this for hirself. Would you like a quote attributed to a named advocate?

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] See my points above... BTW, I notice you've just used the term 'advocate' and its used throughout the article. What do you mean when you say advocate. Its not clear here, or in the article. --Axon

 * [Martin] Some people do insist that their opposition to "gay rights" is grounded on solid facts. Again, would you like a quote? Martin

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:37] No where did I dispute this and I think making an issue of this is side-tracking the discussion: what I dispute is the neutrality of this article. From reading this anyone would get the opinion that homphobia is a term only used by a handful of strange beasts called 'gay rights advocates', and not a term in widespread usage by many people, not just those concerned purely with gay rights. Opinion is clearly dressed up as fact and, particularly at the start of the article, it shows a clear bias against homosexuals and those people who support gay rights or who use the term homophobia. Finally, despite its claims to NPOV this article makes no mention of the (obvious) fact that most of the people accused of being homophobes deny the accusation - no-one wants to be a homophobe in the same way that no-one wants to be a racist, yet they exist. I don't understand how, given Wikipedia's claim to neutrality, this article got discussed in such detail yet ended up with such bias. --Axon

Going through some stuff I was dubious about:

 * The term is more commonly used to describe prejudice ordiscrimination against homosexuals.

Do we have any evidence on which usage of the term homophobia is the most common? I seem to recall that in old Talk we looked for some, and couldn't find any.

 * [213.122.143.69 25-May 02:54] I just assumed from my day to day reading of newspapers that this is the common usage of homophobia. Most people use it in this sense in my mind. Certainly, its the definition that springs to mind when I use it. It is, in my mind, the homosexual equivalent of racism, since the term homsexualism or sexualism is already used for something else. Is there really any dispute of the most common usage of this term? --Axon

 * Some people ... consider all forms of prejudice against homosexuality to be fundamentally based upon this irrational hatred and fear, and therefore equate all such disapproval with homophobia

Well... yes, but you're putting the justification for this use first, and putting the fact (that some people consider all dissapproval homophobic) second. I think putting the fact first and the justification first is better.

 * [Axon 25-May] Perhaps that would be clearer: --Axon

[Axon 25-May] Many supporters of homosexuality and homosexual equality consider most, if not all, opposition to, or dissaproval of, homosexuality to be homophobia and based upon an irrational hatred and fear.

--

Opposition to the definition of homophobia

[Martin] Bad title - it assumes that there is the definition, and that opponents of gay rights oppose this one correct definition, and are therefore wrong. "Deliberate Blurring?" may be non-optimal, but at least it has a question mark... :)

 * [Axon 25-May] Deliberate blurring is also highly POV. Perhaps 'Oppposition to the labelling of homophobia' would be more satisfactory? If not shorter than at least satisfactory to both parties. --Axon

[Martin] Oh, and the "straight supremacism" bit is related to blurring, and should probably follow below it.

Many in the anti-gay lobby claim reject the terms homophobia and homophobic

[Martin] I think that's misleading. Firstly, these people reject what they see as the overuse of the term homophobia - they generally don't reject the term itself. Secondly, most of these people would not describe themselves as part of the "anti-gay lobby" - "opponents of gay rights" would be fairer. Martin

 * [Axon 25-May] I agree with the first part: they dispute the over use of the term, although I imagine some also refute the term itself. The second is more dubious. Most of the people who use the term homophobia don't really consider themselves to be gay rights advocates: there just members of society who find opposition to homosexuality distasteful. I suggest if you refute the use of 'anti-gay lobby' then you should similarly refute the use of this exotic creature 'gay rights advocate'. --Axon

[Martin 25-May] re: "blind reverts" - I'm sorry you believe that. :-(

[Martin 25-May] re: psychiatric usage - Some people mistakenly believe that homophobia is a psychiatric term, and that such a thing as "clinical homophobia" exists - I don't think that confusion exists w.r.t. xenophobia. But I like what you've done to that section, and I think I agree that it doesn't have to be in the very first para.

[Martin 25-May] re: legal definitions - thing is, neither hate crime, nor gay panic defence have information on how these laws and this defence define homophobia. Sure, repeating information is bad, but it'd be good to have that information, at least somewhere.

[Martin 25-May] re: a "POV agenda that homophobia doesn't exist" (when is an agenda not a POV agenda?) - I'm really not seeing where you get that idea. :-/ Nobody who's edited this article thinks that homophobia doesn't exist.

[Martin 25-May] re: most common definition - *shrug* I'd hesitate, based on my own experience, to come to a decision one way or the other. Dictionaries are inconclusive - see onelook results. I think it's best to avoid any implications over which is most common, as much as that's possible. Incidentally, I like the changes you just made to the intro, I got in an edit conflict because I just tried to make near-identical changes! :)

[Martin 25-May] re: "completely unreasoning or in some way principled. "... So the problem is that this section assumes that it is possible to have reasoning, principled objections to homosexuality, where some people (many people?) would argue that it is not in fact possible? Ok, I see your point here - I didn't quite understand what you were saying before.

[Martin 25-May] re: "this article makes no mention of the (obvious) fact that most of the people accused of being homophobes deny the accusation" - actually it does. The article says "People who are called homophobes in the second sense typically do not accept that label. They believe they have rational and morally sound reasons for opposing homosexuality."

[Martin 25-May] re: gay-bashing. I always thought that "gay-bashing" was more about actual actions or words, whereas "homophobia" was more about internal beliefs and attitudes. Your experience differs? Martin

[Martin 25-May] re: "Oppposition to the labelling of homophobia" - I don't think that's an improvement. I'm in favour of some labelling, and oppose other labelling... we've got to somehow get across the concept of "overuse" or "blurring", without implying that any particular point of view is correct.... tricky... Martin

[AdamWill 25-Jul] I removed this: "Societies current feelings toward homosexuality are well illustrated by the 1999 outing of the Teletubbies character Tinky Winky as a homosexual." Apart from being overly UK-centric and grammatically wrong...er, I think it's wrong in essence. It's not at all clear how society's feeling towards homosexuality are illustrated by that. :) --AW

--

Hi there! There is no mention about the over-usage of the term "homophobia" among gay right activists. For example, many gay right activists use the term "homophobia" to describe all those who oppose "same=sex marriage". Of course, emotional words are always over-used! -wshun

Use of 'Gay Rights Advocate' (July 2003)
[Axon 22-Jul]I've been noticing a lot of use of the terms 'gay rights advocate' or, even worse, 'gay rights activist'. It would seem that when people disapprove of the use of any pro-gay opinion, they typically attribute it to these exotic creatures 'activists'. When they are ambivalent, they attribute them to the even stranger 'advocate'.

[Axon 22-Jul]By advocate, I understand that people (probably) mean 'those who support gay rights'. My feeling is that the term is slightly POV - after all, those who support gay rights may also support human rights, religious freedoms, etc. However, attributing pro-gay sentiment to 'gay rights advocate' would seem to suggest an individual whose focus is nothing but gay rights, which is not usually the case. Perhaps creating an article under Gay rights advocate would be useful, or defining the term in the Gay rights article?

[Axon 22-Jul]In summary, all uses of the term 'gay rights activist' should either be deleted or normalised to be more NPOV. And 'gay rights advocate' needs to be properly defined or replaced with a less POV term. --Axon Tue Jul 22 11:45:44 GMTDT 2003

 * [Uncle Ed 23-Jul]I agree, Axon. Particular, an "activist" is someone who goes around actively spreading their POV. The article probably isn't interested that much in the views of activists, per se. "Advocate" could also be confused with activist. Perhaps the longer phrase those who support gay rights will work better. Why don't we try it? --Uncle Ed 14:54 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I think that sounds a bit wishy-washy, myself, but there you are...

 * I changed Bidstrup's description from "gay rights advocate" to "gay rights activist", based on this page:, in which Bidstrup self-describes using this phrase. Martin

 * The advantage of 'gay rights adovcate' is it's succinctness. The those who support gay rights is a step in the right direction but is quite lengthy to reproduce throughout a long article like this. Anyone else have any ideas?

 * Martin: Whilst Bidstrup may describe himself as an activist, it does not necesarily follow that his opinions are representative only of a narrow band of peoples who are 'gay rights activist'. Mentioning Bidstrup is an 'activist' implies that only activists share his views, which is certainly not the case. For example, I agree with some of what Bidstrup says but I'm certainly not an activist. --Axon

 * I don't think it implies this. Saying that he is an activist tells the reader that he is an authority on the subject of gay rights, and therefore his opinions on homophobia might be worth listening to. This is standard practice in newspapers and such. For example, in Rachel Corrie we quote an Amnesty spokeswoman saying that Israeli bulldozers have been "weaponized". This quote does not imply that only members of Amnesty share her views. Martin 20:39 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * I agree with you, but we cannot discount the idea that it also suggests that only 'activists' share his views. And if we use the term 'gay rights activist' i think it needs to be fairly and neutrally defined. Is it just someone who says they are an activist? Is it someone who is highly active in the gay rights movement and, if so, how active is enough? Someone who writes letters to his political representative on a regular basis? Or someone who rattles cans outside shopping malls?

 * I'm leaning more and more to replacing occurences of both gay rights activist and advocate with Some believe, including gay rights advocates, or Some believe, including some members of the gay rights movement. Any ideas? --Axon Thu Jul 31 12:03:29 GMTDT 2003

homoprejudice
"homo-prejudice" gets 54 non-duplicate google hits. "homosexual-prejudice" gets 277 non-duplicate google hits. Is it worth discussing in this article? Genuine question. Martin 20:47 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It sounds, from my own research, to be another synonym for homophobia. I've also seen frequent hits on "anti-homosexual prejudice" as well as another snonym for perhaps a more neutral way of refering to homophobia. I see no problem adding it to the article, although I do see much fuel in it for further discussion. What do you have in mind? --Axon

About activists thing (Oct 2003)
I don't really understand why the term activist is POV. Is the term really different from advocate? In my dictionary, if someone who publicly support something, then he is just an open supporter. But if someone constantly push his opinion through news media, then he is an activist.

Every movement needs an activists to push it, or otherwise it will never materialize. If there is no activist, there will be no improvement in the world. If there is no human right activists, I guess we are still living in a miserable world. -wshun 05:21, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Homophobia is a psychiatric term ?
The article seems to take as a premise something which it also denies. This is confusing, unless it's a deliberate tactic, in which case it's dishonest.

Whoever is saying that homophobia is an "illness" should be credited with this POV

Later in the article, a note says that the second half of the article:

This hopelessly cripples the article.

We probably need to separate out the confused concepts. --Uncle Ed 19:14, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

-- The term "homophobia" has been way overused and, frankly, misused in recent years. Homophobia, like all phobias, is a mental disorder, and while it certainly exists, it is extremely rare. Before the last decade or so, you'd only see the word occasionally in Psychology Today-type articles on phobias: it would be listed along with literally hundreds of other equally unusual irrational fears such as fear of crowds, fear of insects, fear of the sun, etc., etc. These are actual clinical syndromes, however, and they should not be appropriated by political or ideological advocacy groups regardless of how worthy the cause.

 * I won't address the issue of clinical homophobia or homophobia as a mental disorder, but I'd like to point out that besides the traditional meaning of "irrational fear of homosexuals," which is what you're alluding to, there is another, commonly understood definition of homophobia, namely "aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals." In this context, the word has not been misused, and frankly has probably been underused.Exploding Boy 04:35, Feb 2, 2004 (UTC)

RE: neologism (Feb 2004)
[AdamWill 25-Jul, mini-essay on "neologism"...] Another thought - is describing the word as a "neologism" superfluous, perhaps? I've always been an advocate of approaching writing a Wikipedia article as if everything you're writing about happened a thousand years ago and is ancient history, because it seems to me that's the proper style for an encyclopaedia, which is intended to be timeless and authoritative. "Neologism" is an inescapably relative word - *all* words are neologisms looked at from one perspective in time, soon after they are invented. (All the words Shakespeare invented would be neologisms if you lived in 1630, for instance). I sincerely hope this page will be around in some form in another hundred years, at which point homophobia will no longer be a neologism. I think it's probably sufficient simply to say when and by whom the term was coined. Comments? --AW

 * [Camembert 25-Jul, well, it is now, it won't be later] I agree in a way, but the link to neologism is probably of interest - in fifty years or so, when the word definitely isn't a neologism any more, we can remove it ;) --Camembert

[Exploding Boy 9-Feb] From the neologism page: When a word or phrase is no longer "new," it is no longer a neologism. Exploding Boy 13:52, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * From the neologism page: Versions of Neologism : Stable - Having gained recognizable and probably lasting acceptance. JDR

 * Do you claim that "homophobia" has not gained recognizable and lasting acceptance? I defy you to find one English-speaking adult who doesn't know what it means.

 * That is not what I claim ... it's gained recognizable and lasting acceptance ... that is why it is Stable! JDR

 * Also... I hate what you've done with the references on this page. (1) they're very confusing (a bunch of numbers) and (2) exactly what is wrong with having URLs on a page?  You seem intent on getting rid of them all.  I really suggest you have another look at  cite your sources. Exploding Boy 13:57, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * It seems that they already like that (ie., OTHER editors citing the sources as they go) .... but I was going to format them ...

 * I changed the end-of-paragraph links to links to a new "Reference" section; I did not change the links in the reference section to just a series of numbers, but anyway they're changed back now. I think what happens sometimes is edit conflicts screw up the history.  Anyway, no harm done.Exploding Boy 14:54, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * oh ... i see what happened ... Exploding, if you do a link ( ie., http://en.wikipedia.org ) and put it in brackets it turns into this :  ... and that's what happened ... but it's all good now ... Sincerely, JDR

Another thought - is describing the word as a "neologism" superfluous, perhaps? I've always been an advocate of approaching writing a Wikipedia article as if everything you're writing about happened a thousand years ago and is ancient history, because it seems to me that's the proper style for an encyclopaedia, which is intended to be timeless and authoritative. "Neologism" is an inescapably relative word - *all* words are neologisms looked at from one perspective in time, soon after they are invented. (All the words Shakespeare invented would be neologisms if you lived in 1630, for instance). I sincerely hope this page will be around in some form in another hundred years, at which point homophobia will no longer be a neologism. I think it's probably sufficient simply to say when and by whom the term was coined. Comments? --AW

 * I agree in a way, but the link to neologism is probably of interest - in fifty years or so, when the word definitely isn't a neologism any more, we can remove it ;) --Camembert

I removed Le Pen from list of homophobes, since this is not documented in wikipedia (although I am inclined to believe it is true). Accusations must be supported. Mikkalai 06:11, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

If... (May 2004)
If you've got the slightest criticism against homosexuals and their right to marry each other and to adopt children, then you're instantly branded as a homophobic. This is truly pathetic! The Holy Bible teaches that homosexual acts are a sin. Not a sin that's more severe than any other sin, but STILL A SIN! If every homosexual has the right to say that homosexuality is normal and morally acceptable, then I've got the right to deem it a sin! Rienzo 10:04, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * What has this got to do with anything? Talk pages are not soapboxes. If you have a legit concern about the article, then express it. Dysprosia 11:23, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Actually, it is suggested that talk pages are soapboxes, or at least that they, rather, than articles, should be soap boxes.
 * That said, if one felt that people on the list should not be included because, for instance, they simply believe that same-sex sexual acts are one sin among many no better no worse, then one would have to document that. Or, assuming that the burden of proof is on those who claim someone is homophobic, there should be documentation of homophobia (beyond thinking butt sex is gross like picking one's nose or fellatio is immoral like telling someone their new haircut looks fine, even though it doesn't). Hyacinth 00:20, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

Remove Procreation as Cause ? (July 2004)
Removed from article:

procreation, the most fundamental of instincts. The very thought of a parent that his child may become a gay or lesbian and thus will break the biological chain of generations makes the person to consider gays and lesbians as a source of a potential threat to his family."
 * "The most basic roots of homophobia lie in the instinct of

Mikkalai - you apparently re-added |on March 2, 2004 content that User:Exploding Boy removed (see above). Do you have an sources?on Mar 6, 2004. I sympathize your effort to add an explination for a phobia, by definition an irrational fear, but it seems that a short summary of the general cause, which is known, is in order here.

 * Exploding Boy, while I imagine you felt it was more than obvious, you should have included a reason for your removal of the text to talk.

 * Mikkalai, however, I'll provide a reason now. It isn't true that gay and lesbian people would or do pass on their genes far less frequently. Consider the intense pressure to be straight and reproduce over the last few hundred years. Gay people pass on their genes all the time, in fact, gay and lesbian teenagers are twice as likely to impregnate someone or be impregnated (http://www.lesbianinformationservice.org/pregnancy.rtf). See: situational sexual behaviour.

 * Given that, its hard to imagine that parents would be horrified that their children would not procreate, but seemingly disinterested in their children's sinfully deviant socially unacceptable sexual activities or inclinations. Hyacinth 04:52, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The content was added again, near word for word, by User:Mikkalai. This time I let it stand and added content disputing. I am disapointed to learn that you either don't read talk pages or ignore others', specifically my, concerns. Hyacinth 03:48, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you for explanations. The first time it was removed without any comments. Therefore I restored it. I will try to look for public sources. If I will not find, I will not be fighting against the removal. It was only apparent insolence that made me move. Mikkalai 07:16, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

About the intro (July 2004)

 * The term homophobia means fear or hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice or discrimination against people who engage in homosexual acts.

Just since when does whateverphobia mean hate of?, or prejudice or discrimination. A phobia is an irrational fear of something, pleace back this up because it sounds like senseless POV to me. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 22:39, 2004 Jul 11 (UTC)

 * It's not at all senseless POV, but rather an example of defining a word by common usage. Hyacinth 00:15, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Oh good grief. Must we have this whole debate about the definition of homophobia yet again? If you don't understand the word, or don't think the definition is correct, then feel free to look it up in any dictionary. Here's a sample citation from MerriamWebster.com:

Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia Function: noun irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

Exploding Boy 00:59, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

 * Since the English language is not officially regulated by anybody, including whatever dictionary you manage to dig up they are not the end of all debate, as i'm sure you are aware dictionaries are written after (common?) usage in the language and not the other way around, they're a reference, but not an authority. Anyway, the only thing that can apply in all cases here is phobia; hate or discrimination may follow but it's not part of homophobia. It may follow, but that doesnt mean it's part of this concept, related perhaps.
 * The reason i object to this is that i've ( in the real world™ ) encountered some homophobes which showed no discrimination or hate agains them, just similar reactions as any other phobia. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 01:14, 2004 Jul 12 (UTC)

 * Thus the "fear or hatred of...". [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 01:25, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * In a way that decks it, however all phobias are just irrational fear, whats the argument for having this one phobia also covering hate and so on? --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 01:44, 2004 Jul 12 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? Exploding Boy 01:28, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

 * He was saying that he's encountered homophobes who don't hate gays, just get afraid around them. I replied, saying that the current intro covers those who hate and fear, as well as those who simply fear. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 01:34, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Thing is that the general sense is that phobia is irrational fear, people who hate them are often incorrecly labeled homophobic. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 01:44, 2004 Jul 12 (UTC)

 * But according to both dictionaries and common usage, it's not incorrect. That's like saying that me pitching my tent on a hill is not camping, because it's not a large flat open space (Latin campus). [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 01:48, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * No that was not the point, i was just saying that generally it ends up in that. I still think that since it's a phobia it should be so defined in the article as opposed to or something or that blabla.. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 02:35, 2004 Jul 12 (UTC)

Actually, there's no such thing as clinical homophobia. Exploding Boy 02:58, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

Etymology (July 2004)
It may be true that "some argue against the use of the term homophobe", but the quote from Jarrod Carter doesn't really support that. He only argues that he isn't homophobic, not that the term in general shouldn't be used. His starting with "the real homophobes are..." strikes me as a rhetorical device, not an actual claim that people are misusing the word. --William Pietri 05:17, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Prevalence of homophobia (Aug 2004)
Can somebody add this? I want to do it but do not know where. "Homophobia is very widespread and strong in Islamic countries such as Iran and not confined to orthodox Muslims." Andries 18:02, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Do you have a source? Hyacinth 21:35, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Hyacinth, the source is me.:-) All the many Iranians that I meet say the same. Today, people almost wanted to kill me just when I asked them what is wrong with homosexuals. I would agree that my experience need corroboration to get included in the article but I personally can not seriously doubt it. Somali guy too. I also read it in the Dutch newspaper Volkskrant about Morocco. Andries 21:46, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I do not doubt you, I have read the same, but I would caution to indite the Islamic world without sources. Also, a good source should be able to provide the counter view, that in some ways, or at some times in some places, Islamic society is less homophobic than the "Christian" US. Hyacinth 22:48, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Homophobia/Archive 2


text:
Historic Triangle

The Historic Triangle includes three historic colonial communities located on the Virginia Peninsula, bounded by the York River on the north and James River on the south. The three points that form the triangle are Jamestown, Colonial Williamsburg, and Yorktown. They feature many restored attractions and are linked by the Colonial Parkway in James City and York counties, and the City of Williamsburg.

Describing the significance to the United States of the three main points of the Historic Triangle, the Reverend Dr. W.A.R. Goodwin, rector of Bruton Parish Church and co-founder of Colonial Williamsburg, said, "Williamsburg is Jamestown continued, and Yorktown is Williamsburg vindicated."

Colonial Parkway
The National Park Service's Colonial Parkway was constructed to connect the three historic attractions of Colonial Virginia with a scenic and bucolic roadway carefully shielded from views of commercial development. Intended to help visitors mentally return to the past, it has views of waterway and natural areas, and wildlife and waterfowl along the roadway (and crossing it). The only human development that can be seen from most of the parkway are the two loading piers of Cheatham Annex, part of the Naval Weapons Station Yorktown, which borders the inland side of much of the parkway. The peninsula has major military installations.

Near the James River and York River ends of the parkway, there are several pull-offs where visitors can admire the view. The Colonial Parkway is free of tolls or user fees.

The Parkway starts in Yorktown, passes through Colonial Williamsburg and ends in Jamestown. No commercial vehicles are allowed to use the parkway for transportation, although commuter traffic has increased dramatically in the early 21st century.

Jamestown Ferry
Some visitors from the South travel to the area across the James River by ferry from Surry County. State Route 10 and State Route 31 (the John Rolfe Highway) lead to Scotland Wharf. Visitors can take one of the four Jamestown Ferries, which include the Pocahontas and Williamsburg. As passengers cross, they can leave their vehicles and can walk about or go up to an enclosed viewing level with restrooms.

During favorable weather and daylight hours, northbound passengers usually see the Jamestown Island much as the first colonists may have approached it. Replicas of Christopher Newport's three tiny ships, Susan Constant, Godspeed, and Discovery are docked near the northern ferry landing at Glass House Point.

The state-operated Jamestown Ferry service is toll-free.

Jamestown
The first permanent English settlement in the New World was established at Jamestown on May 13, 1607. There are two major heritage sites at Jamestown: Jamestown Settlement, a living history museum which includes a reconstructed Native American village, colonial fort, and replica ships, operated by the Commonwealth of Virginia; and Historic Jamestowne, the National Park Service site which includes Jamestown Island and the ongoing archaeological projects.

Williamsburg
In 1699, the capital of Virginia was moved from Jamestown to a location on high ground at Middle Plantation at the suggestion of students from the College of William and Mary, which had been established there in 1693. Middle Plantation was soon renamed Williamsburg, in honor of King William III, and it was a busy place until the American Revolution.

In 1780, during the American Revolutionary War, the capital and government were moved to a more secure location at Richmond. Williamsburg became a largely sleepy little town for almost 150 years, as many young people left the Tidewater area in search of new lands to the west and other frontiers. In the early 20th century, the town was revived due to the preservation efforts of Reverend Dr. W.A.R. Goodwin, rector of Bruton Parish Church, and the generosity of Standard Oil heir John D. Rockefeller Jr. and his family, who shared a dream of restoring the old colonial capital city to its 18th-century state. They worked for decades to develop that vision to honor the later colonial capital.

The result of those efforts, Colonial Williamsburg, is a large living museum of early American life. It has 88 original buildings and dozens of restored and recreated buildings and re-enactors. It is one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world. The Visitor's Center (right off the Colonial Parkway) features a short movie. It has a parking area, as automobiles are restricted from the restored area. A wheelchair-accessible shuttle bus service is provided.

Yorktown
The third point of the triangle is Yorktown, where General Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington in 1781 in the last land battle of the American Revolution. There are two large visitor centers, battlefield drives, and a waterfront area. The historic area of downtown has numerous buildings from the pre-Revolutionary era.

Commercial enterprises
The three Historic Triangle areas (and the Colonial Parkway between them) have been restored to promote a sense of the past. Nearby are many modern hotels, motels, campgrounds, restaurants, shops and stores, gasoline stations, and amusements.

Other major attractions include:
 * Busch Gardens, a theme park located near in James City County
 * Go-Karts Plus, a theme park located near Williamsburg in James City County next to the Williamsburg Pottery Factory on U.S. Route 60
 * Water Country USA, a water park located near Williamsburg in York County
 * The Williamsburg Winery, Virginia's largest winery located on a 320 acre farm in historical Williamsburg
 * Williamsburg Pottery Factory, located on U.S. Route 60 a few miles west of Williamsburg in James City County

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Historic Triangle


text: Category:Technology images

title: Category:Technology images


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Ice Hockey Federation of Israel

The Israel Ice Hockey Federation (ההתאחדות הישראלית להוקי קרח, الاتحاد الاسرائيلي لهوكي الجليد) is recognized as the governing body for amateur ice hockey in Israel and is a member of the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF). It is often called the Ice Hockey Federation of Israel in order to differentiate it from the IIHF.

History
Ice hockey began in Israel when the first ice rink opened in Qiryat Motzkin in 1986. The Israel Ice Hockey and Figure Skating Association was formed in 1988 and was admitted to the International Ice Hockey Federation in 1991. Israel first competed in the IIHF Pool C world championships in South Africa in 1992, finishing 5th out of the six participating teams (South Africa, Spain, Greece, Luxembourg, Turkey and Israel).

The hockey and figure skating associations split when the sports became large enough to be independent, and the hockey association was renamed to the Ice Hockey Federation of Israel.

Ice hockey in Israel began to grow when several Russian Jewish émigrés, who had played professionally in the Soviet Union, began coaching in Metula, the site of Israel's first and currently only full-size rink. Most notable among these Russian coaches was Boris Mindel, a former defenseman on the Red Army Team, who established a junior program at the Canada Centre rink in Metula.

Ice hockey in Israel received an additional boost of momentum when Roger Neilson, coach of several National Hockey League (NHL) teams including the New York Rangers and the Toronto Maple Leafs, opened a branch of his summer ice hockey camp in Metula and attracted young North American players to train and compete with young Israelis interested in the sport. As of 2005, there are three ice skating rinks in Israel. An Olympic facility and smaller practice rink at the Canada Centre in Metula, and a small rink in the northern town of Ma'alot.

International competition
In the summer of 1997, the Maccabiah Games included ice hockey for the first time and attracted Jewish teams from the United States, Canada, and Ukraine to compete along with the Israel National Team. The U.S. and Canadian team was composed of mostly NCAA players and several who had played in the NHL, including U.S. player coach Mike Hartman of the New York Rangers. At the same time, a team of Jewish teenagers from New York City traveled to Israel to face Boris Mindel's Metula team, and later invited the Israeli juniors to tour the Northeastern United States and Canada with them, giving the Israeli juniors their first exposure to North American competition. The New Yorkers, including many of the same players who had visited in 1997, visited again in 2004 to skate against the Israelis in a spirited series for the "Maccabi Cup".

In 2005, Israel, with the benefit of a number of players who were Israeli-Canadian dual citizens, won the gold medal at the IIHF Division II Group B World Championships and were promoted to Division I for the 2006 IIHF World Championships.

In 2006, after being outscored 47–3 in the IIHF World Championship Division I, Israel was relegated to the 2007 IIHF World Championship Division II.

In the summer of 2007, with outside temperatures reaching ninety degrees Fahrenheit, the first World Jewish Ice Hockey Tournament was held in Metula, with competing teams from Israel, Canada, France, and the winner, the United States.

title: Ice Hockey Federation of Israel


text:
User:Anthony Timberlake

I am a 22 year old college student who goes to college in Batavia NY, and runs a fairly successful blog called Negative Horizon.

title: User:Anthony Timberlake


text: User talk:65.111.38.199

title: User talk:65.111.38.199


text:
Talk:Agit Prop Records

"The label was disbanded, and Chumbawamba signed onto One Little Indian Records."

I really want to add, "Bassa Bassa, on the other hand, disbanded banded."

--Smooth Henry 13:05, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * You could, but I believe they are still going! quercus robur 00:51, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * They are :( --Smooth Henry 03:47, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Agit Prop Records


text:
Talk:Matthew Minami

I think this article should be united with (or moved to) "Takashi Fujii" because Matthew Minami is Takashi Fujii's stage name just on Matthew's Best Hit TV, yet he appears on other television shows as the name of "Takashi Fujii." - TRIBESMAN 13:08, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Well my understanding was that Matthew is a character that Fujii plays, and so he talks about Fujii as being a different person while wearing the Matthew wig and garrish suit. I don't think the term 'stage name' is appropriate in the article as well.

I'm going to flip the redirect and change the wording a bit to put less emphasis on his appearance in Lost in Translation. His presense as Fujii Takashi is notable (in Japan) but the fact that he appeared in Lost in Translation for 10 seconds doesn't justify a main article. Freshgavin 03:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Matthew Minami


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Blood-vein

The blood-vein (Timandra comae) is a moth of the family Geometridae. The species was first described by Anton Schmidt in 1931.

Distribution
It has a scattered distribution in western and central Europe north of the Alps. In the British Isles the distribution is patchy outside southern England and Wales. In far eastern Europe – east of a line running roughly from Finland through Estonia – it is replaced by its sister species Timandra griseata. The species were split in 1931, only to be subsequently re-merged by most authors. But since 1994, new research has come out in favour of treating them as distinct species.

Description
The wings are cream coloured with bold red or purple fascia forming a diagonal stripe across forewings and hindwings. All wings are fringed with the same colour. The tornus of the hindwing is sharply angled giving a distinctive shape. The wingspan is 30–35 mm.

Biology
Two broods are produced each year with the adults flying in May and June and again in August and September. It flies at night and is attracted to light.

The larva is grey brown with darker spots on the back. In the UK, it feeds on the leaves of a variety of plants including dock, knotgrass, sorrel and various species of Atriplex. It overwinters as a larva.

title: Blood-vein


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Scott Kim

Scott Kim is an American puzzle and video game designer, artist, and author of Korean descent. He started writing an occasional "Boggler" column for Discover magazine in 1990, and became an exclusive columnist in 1999, and created hundreds of other puzzles for magazines such as Scientific American and Games, as well as thousands of puzzles for computer games. He was the holder of the Harold Keables chair at Iolani School in 2008.

Kim was born in 1955 in Washington, D.C., and grew up in Rolling Hills Estates, California. He had an early interest in mathematics, education, and art, and attended Stanford University, receiving a BA in music, and a PhD in Computers and Graphic Design under Donald Knuth. In 1981, he created a book called Inversions, words that can be read in more than one way. His first puzzles appeared in Scientific American in Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Games" column and he said that the column inspired his own career as a puzzle designer. Kim is one of the best-known masters of the art of ambigrams.

Kim designed logos for Silicon Graphics, Inc., GOES, The Hackers Conference, the Computer Game Developers Conference, and Dylan.

Kim is a regular speaker on puzzle design, such as at the International Game Developers Conference and Casual Games Conference. His wife, Amy Jo Kim, is the author of Community Building on the Web.

He lives in Burlingame, California with his wife Amy Jo Kim, son Gabriel and daughter Lila Rose.

Works

 * Inversions, 1981, Byte Books, ISBN 1-55953-280-7, a book of 60 original ambigrams
 * "Letterforms & Illusion", 1989, W. H. Freeman & Co., created with Robin Samelson, accompanies the book, Inversions.
 * Quintapaths, 1969 (tiling puzzle), published by Kadon since 1999.
 * Heaven and Earth, Buena Vista / Disney (computer game)
 * Obsidian, SegaSoft (computer game)
 * MetaSquares, 1996 (computer game, created with Kai Krause, Phil Clevenger, and Ian Gilman).
 * The Next Tetris, Hasbro Interactive, PlayStation
 * Railroad Rush Hour, ThinkFun (toy)
 * Charlie Blast's Territory (Nintendo 64 game)
 * The NewMedia Puzzle Workout - collection of Kim's magazine puzzles
 * Scott Kim's Puzzle Box (monthly Shockwave puzzles at JuniorNet.com)
 * Brainteasers, Mind Benders, Games, Word Searches, Puzzlers, Mazes & More Calendar 2007, Workman Publishing Company, ISBN 0-7611-4079-4

Contributed works

 * Harry Abrams. Escher Interactive (computer game)
 * Elonka Dunin, The Mammoth Book of Secret Code Puzzles, 2006, Constable & Robinson, ISBN 0-7867-1726-2
 * Popcap Games, Bejeweled 2, design of Puzzle Mode puzzles

title: Scott Kim


text:
User:Registering a free account

You took my user name!

title: User:Registering a free account


text:
Blume

Blume may refer to:

Music

 * Blume (band), an Italian band

Surname

 * Anna and Bernhard Blume, German artistic photographers
 * Astrid Blume (1872–1924), Danish educator and temperance advocate
 * Brian Blume (born 1950), a business partner of Gary Gygax in TSR, Inc., producers of the fantasy role-playing game, Dungeons & Dragons
 * Carl Ludwig Blume (1796–1862), a German-Dutch botanist, whose botanical abbreviation is Blume
 * Clemens Blume (1862–1932), a Jesuit hymnologist
 * Clint Blume (1898–1973), a Major League Baseball player
 * Danny Blume (born 1960), an American music producer, musician and composer
 * David Blume, an American permaculture teacher and entrepreneur
 * Fred H. Blume (1875–1971), a Justice of the Wyoming Supreme Court
 * Friedrich Blume (1893–1975), a German professor of musicology in Kiel University
 * Georg Blume, a correspondent in Beijing, China of the German newspapers "Die Zeit" and "taz"
 * Heinrich Blume, German politician
 * Holger Blume (born 1973), a German sprinter
 * Joaquín Blume (1933–1959), a Spanish gymnast
 * John Blume (1909–2002), an American structural engineer
 * Judy Blume (born 1938), an American author
 * Lawrence E. Blume, an American professor of economics
 * Lesley M. M. Blume, an author, journalist, columnist and cultural observer based in New York City
 * Marc Blume (born 1973), a German sprinter
 * Marco Blume, a German professional Magic: The Gathering player
 * Markus Blume (born 1975), a German politician
 * Pernille Blume (born 1994), a Danish swimmer and Olympic gold medalist
 * Peter Blume (1906–1992), an American painter and sculptor
 * Ray Blume (born 1958), a retired American basketball player
 * Renate Blume (born 1944), a German actress
 * Ricardo Blume (born 1933), a Peruvian actor and theater director
 * Robert Blume (1868–1937), an American sailor serving in the United States Navy during the Spanish–American War who received the Medal of Honor for his actions
 * Thaïs Blume (born 1984), Spanish actress
 * Veronica Blume (born 1977), a Spanish fashion model and actress
 * Walter Blume (disambiguation)

Fictional

 * Blume (Organization), a fictional organization, which appears in Watch Dogs, Watch Dogs 2, and Watch Dogs: Legion.

title: Blume


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Old-Times of the Japanese

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:45, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Old-Times of the Japanese
WTF? Does not make any sense. jni 13:13, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Nonsense. JimmyShelter 13:21, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete it's Pokemon-related cruft, if anybody really wants to know. My guess is it's a description of a fanfic. Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd  13:32, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, fragmentary, fictional cruft. Wyss 19:29, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, You want to do the what now? Inter 20:26, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, but send it to 'Bad Jokes and etc', because it made me laugh (particulary "David Wilcox (Himself)" - who? Toyah Wilcox's more obscure brother?) -Ashley Pomeroy 00:45, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Pavel Vozenilek 00:54, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, fancruft, article as it stands is un-encyclopaedic. Megan1967 01:06, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete it. —RaD Man (talk) 09:55, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll take Delete for $100, Bob. --Froggy 21:39, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Matilda I (tank)

The Tank, Infantry, Mk I, Matilda I (A11) is a British infantry tank of the Second World War. Despite being slow, cramped and armed with only a single machine gun, the Matilda I had some success in the Battle of France in 1940, owing to its heavy armour which was proof against the standard German anti-tank guns. However, it was essentially useless in an attacking sense, as its weak armament made it toothless in combat against enemy armour, and the tank was obsolete before it even came into service. The Battle of France was the only time the Matilda I saw combat. The tank was cheaply built as the British government wanted each of the tanks to be built on a very restricted budget in the build-up to the Second World War. It is not to be confused with the later (more successful) model Tank, Infantry Mk II (A12), also known as the "Matilda II", which took over the "Matilda" name after the Matilda I was withdrawn from combat service in 1940. They were completely separate designs.

Development history
The development of the tank began with Sir Hugh Elles, Master General of Ordnance, and Major-General A. E. Davidson, who concurred that a tank design to support infantry attacks was needed. After consulting with Major-General Percy Hobart they decided that large groups of small, lightly armed tanks were needed to overrun enemy positions and approached Sir John Carden at Vickers-Armstrongs Ltd to design and begin work on a tank based on these principles, which began in 1935. The General Staff specification required a cheap tank, requiring the use of already commercially available automotive components. It resulted in a small two-man vehicle with a low hull and a small cast turret. The turret was fitted with a single heavy machine gun, either a .303 (7.7 mm) calibre Vickers machine gun or the larger (12.7 mm) Vickers .50 machine gun. Designed for quick delivery as well as low cost, the A11 used many stock parts from other vehicles: a Ford V8 engine, a Fordson gearbox, a steering mechanism similar to the one used in Vickers light tanks and suspension adapted from the Mk IV Dragon artillery tractor, that was based on the Vickers 6-Ton Tank Model E.

The hull and turret were well protected against contemporary anti-tank weapons but the tracks and running gear were exposed and more vulnerable than on tanks that had protected tracks. The lack of a gun with anti-tank capability severely limited its utility on the battlefield. Besides operating the machine gun, the commander had to direct the driver and operate the radio. There being no room in the turret for the radio, it was placed in the hull; the commander had to duck down inside and lie almost prone to operate it. The driver's position was equally cramped and the turret could not be traversed forward while the driver's hatch was open. The top speed of 8 mph (13 km/h) was thought to be sufficient for supporting an infantry advance.

Essentially, the tank was a First World War tank designed twenty years after its conclusion. Those who designed the tank were influenced by the mistaken belief that combat in a new war would be the same as in World War I, in which tanks were used for breaking through strong, static defensive positions. As a result, the tank was obsolete both in design and in its intended purpose.

General Hugh Elles, the Master-General of the Ordnance, is credited with giving the tank the name Matilda "due to the vehicle's diminutive size and duck-like shape and gait." However, the codename "Matilda" for the project was created for Vickers at the time of drawing up the specification in 1935. The "Tank, Infantry, Mark I" name was an Army Council decision of June 1940.

Production history
The first order of sixty Matilda tanks was placed in April 1937, followed by an order for a further sixty ten days later and another 19 were ordered in January 1939. The tank remained in production until August 1940, with a total of one hundred and forty produced, including the prototype. Some were equipped with the heavier .50 inch Vickers machine gun instead of the .303 inch Vickers machine gun.

Combat history
Matilda I tanks equipped the 4th Battalion and 7th Battalion of the Royal Tank Regiment (RTR). In September 1939, upon the outbreak of the Second World War, the 4th RTR deployed to France with the British Expeditionary Force. They were joined at the start of May 1940 by 7th RTR and together formed the 1st Army Tank Brigade. Apart from light tanks assigned to the various British infantry divisions, this was the only British armoured force on the Continent at the start of the Battle of France on 10 May 1940. The 58 Matilda Is and 16 Matilda IIs spearheaded the counter-attack in the Battle of Arras on 21 May, temporarily discomfiting the 7th Panzer Division under Rommel. The heavy armour of both types of British tank proved to be resistant to the standard German 37 mm anti-tank gun and the attack was only halted by a gun line hastily formed from 105 mm howitzers and 88 mm anti-aircraft guns, personally directed by Rommel. On the following day, only 26 Matilda Is and two Matilda II tanks were still serviceable.

On 23 May, tanks from 7 RTR fought a rearguard action at Souchez before joining the general withdrawal towards Dunkirk. The surviving tanks of both battalions were formed into a composite unit, which fought another counter-attack at La Bassée. Only two tanks reached Dunkirk in the closing stages of Operation Dynamo.

Further south in France, five Matilda Is and a few other tanks which had been in various depots or had arrived as late reinforcements, formed the Divisional Tank Company of the Beauman Division, an improvised formation which had been hastily put together to defend the British logistic bases at Rouen and Dieppe. On 8 June, the tanks supported the force, which was mainly infantry, in their unsuccessful defence of the rivers Andelle and Béthune. The division was subsequently evacuated from Cherbourg during Operation Aerial; although 22 tanks of various types were brought back during these evacuations, there were no infantry tanks among them. A Matilda I was selected by the German Army for evaluation and it was destroyed in the process. After most of the deployed Matilda I tanks were abandoned in France, the 77 Matilda Is left in the United Kingdom were withdrawn for training purposes.

Some recent evidence suggests that Matilda I's captured by the Germans may have seen use as internal security vehicles, probably in Poland.

Survivors
Three surviving Matilda I tanks are preserved at The Tank Museum in the United Kingdom. One (HMH 802, identified as "possibly T3447" ) is in running condition; it was recovered from Otterburn gunnery range and restored to running condition, although it is powered by an inauthentic engine and gearbox.

The second vehicle was built in March 1940 and restored to running condition in the 1980s. It is painted to represent T8106 a tank of the 4th Royal Tank Regiment in France in May 1940.

A third Matilda I is a severely damaged wreck that was used as a gunnery range target, and can be found to the north of the Vehicle Conservation Centre.

title: Matilda I (tank)


text:
Talk:LMLK seal

Spacing
Just a suggestion, but the drawings take up a lot of space on the page and push the content below the fold. Might look better if just 2-3 were displayed on this page, and a dedicated page created for the rest. --dahamsta 13:13, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I've flipped the sections on "drawings" and "theories", looks a bit better now. --  user:zanimum

Missing
This article is missing: — Timwi 15:52, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * what LMLK stands for
 * how do we know that they were used "during the reign of King Hezekiah (circa 700 BC)" if "none of the original seals have been found".

 * Lamed Mem Lamed Kaf, and means "belonging to the king", though I don't know which Hebrew language, how to add the proper characters (the Hebrew alphabet page is cryptic), or even if it just refers to the letters. 68.81.231.127 16:24, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Transliterated, it is L'Melech, which (as said above) means to the King. The letter L is a preposition meaning to, as in towards, belonging to, etc.  Melech is the word for king.  I'm pretty sure the yod (') is between the L & Melech, but it is often omitted, since it functions more as a vowel. wrp103 (Bill Pringle)  - Talk 04:06, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the great feedback! I've incorporated these excellent suggestions. Funhistory 21:39, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Heraldry and Vexillology
LMLK seals have absolutely nothing to do with heraldry & vexillology. Please stop adding banners to include this page in that Wikiproject.--Funhistory 16:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry about that; we were tagging articles in all relevant categories, which includes Category:Seals since in the US seals are used instead of coats of arms. Unfortunately there are a small number of articles on other types of seals (like this one) which got incorrectly tagged. Dr pda 02:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Moloch
In June 2007 someone at 67.127.185.79 posted content promoting the theory that the "MLK" of "LMLK" is Moloch, which was already listed near the bottom of the theories page. I believe additional content regarding this minority theory should be restricted to the Moloch page, & not be added to this page, which as User:Wrp103 stated, is about the seals, & not about interpretations of the Bible.--Funhistory 14:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

the Wings, the "Beetle"..?
Because of this Stamp seal, "type" I worked on "Stamp seal", and Cylinder seal. So thanks, Funhistory. I have not read every word of the LMLK seal page.

Here are some thoughts. I worked on Egy.Hiero. then the Amarna letters, then the Epic of Gilgamesh, with Akkadian. I know that 'mlk', and the variants are for Akkadian: malāku,  with the long a.   and that this is the word for "consultation". The gods are always convening and doing their "consultations", or any important Group ( Of People)   Abi-Milku in the Amarna letters from Megiddo. his name is "Father=King", (milku, "advice, counsel"   and also king for Canaanite ? )   Anyway...(All the family of  m-l-k words....)

To get at the symbols of the beetle... Is it the Scarab, just referring to "Transforming",  working to Improve ? And are the wings the " Faravahar ", or Ahura Mazda,  still just referring to "transforming", and bettering oneself ? Are all these pottery items, just "owned" or authorized by the KING, and there is no implications with the symbols, or is it " Just the Symbol of the King," or one of his "Trustees", "Superintendent of Pots production" ? Are there obvious answers to this ?

Okay, I reread most of the LMLK page. I assume these are just Tithe portions to the "Govt", whatever the government was. I am assuming the "Govt" was the "Religios" one the "Religious/King" govt. End of my thoughts. I'll look at the MMST page again. Michael McAnnis,YumaAZ(USA)

(I know that Scarab rings were a common in the Early Canaanites, in the Lachish book by Bliss, 1898, the Scarab rings were pictured. (Numerous fold-outs in this 1898 book, a lot of artefacts.) ( The Scarab rings were also in varieties, locally produced, or at least Canaanite-produced (I assume) with their specific variations.)

But I am thinking the Egyptian influence, was not in the jewelry, but in the ideas that the Canaanites had in their own minds..... Thus the "wings", and "modified Scarab". ( Am I correct that this 700 BC timeframe is just as the Hebrews were "solidifying" their oral, and written history? Do these symbols somehow fit into the War History happening physically, played against their Religious Aspiration history ?  Isnt this when the Old T. Bible was being created ?  Mmcannis

Isis (Maat) and the outstretched Wings
Maybe this is closer to the meaning of the wings, instead of Ahura Mazda. Maat stands for "order, justice, truth" probably aspirations of the 'leaders', 'kings', 'princes', of Jerusalem area. M McAnnis

 * I don't have any answers to your questions, Mmcannis, but they are good ones, & good comments. It's a mysterious subject that's open to speculation.--[User:Funhistory|Funhistory]] 20:04, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

A 4th theory
Re yr Theories section: I thought there was a 4th theory, which was that Hezekiah was big in the olive oil industry, and these were the jars in which the oil was collected? (Although in that case, why no jars/seals outside his territories?)

 * I'm not aware of any published speculation that only the sealed jars contained oil. If you have a reference, I'd be glad to consider it.  Bear in mind that only about 10-20% of the jars were sealed.  The site of Miqne/Eqron was a big oil producer, & Jib/Gibeon was a big wine producer.  I've never heard anyone attribute the production of oil to Hezekiah specifically.--Funhistory (talk) 15:33, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

 * If you're one of those keen souls who read my User page, you'll see that I labour under a possibly unique disadvantage when it comes to consulting sources: I live in Phnom Penh, and PP ain't the world's hottest centre of biblical studies. (If I wanted to devote myself to Buddhist studies it would be quite a =different proposition, but it seems I like to make my life as difficult as possible). Anyway, I'm relying on memory for this. My memory tells me that I read it in Finklestein's Bible Unearthed. If you want to follow up, you'd have to read the chapter abt Hezekiah and find what primary sources F. was working from - assuming my memory is correct. PiCo (talk) 14:03, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

 * No, there's a few sentences about the "unprecedented expansion of olive oil in the Iron Age" on p. 207, but the king they link it to is Jeroboam II around Samaria. There's nothing specific about oil in Finkelstein/Silberman's LMLK discussion on pp. 257-9.  By the way, I can't resist taking this opportunity to note their statement on p. 259 about 2Chronicles being "hardly historical" with respect to the geographic extent of Hezekiah's kingdom, as they were unaware of the northern LMLK sites.--Funhistory (talk) 16:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Vocalizations
I see that you have the vocalisation of kaf (same in Arabic) as a /kh/ - is this right? Arabic kaf is /k/. (Root in Arabic is /mlk/ - giving malik, king (one who possesses), mumluk, slave (the one possessed, esp. by a malik), etc.) PiCo (talk) 07:38, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

 * As for the vocalization, "kh" is a common transliteration/spelling, as is "ch", but nobody knows for certain how the ancients pronounced it. Personally, I prefer to simply write it as "LMLK" without any vocalization to avoid the issue (it's a non-issue).  Visit this page for an exhaustive list of all the spellings that have appeared in scholarly publications.--Funhistory (talk) 15:33, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Minor Editing
This is a good article. It would be nice to see what it takes to get it up to Featured Article status. ''Em-jay-es 16:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I fixed a few notes in the Theories section, by adding footnotes, to make it easier to read.
 * I have also created redirects for the variants "lmlk", "lamelekh", etc. (which you come across often in publications).
 * Finally, I've added the DYK info to the top of this talk page (even though it is a year old).

A bit dated
This 2012 article (free) and those it cites could be used to bring the debate up to date. Zerotalk 01:38, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree with you that this article, which I originated almost 9 years ago, should be updated to include more citations/references since Wikipedia's standards have undergone tremendous changes in recent years. However, the subject is currently mired by a plagiarism scandal overshadowing the 2012 article you recommended (as well as several others by the same author).  Aside from being a work under suspicion of academic fraud (i.e., claiming to have originated "a new chronological scheme", which I [G.M. Grena] had presented in my self-published book 8 years earlier), its author (Oded Lipschits) cites Vaughn's 1999 work, yet fails to distinguish between Vaughn's lengthy "economic build-up" & Ussishkin's upholding of the brief "military build-up" interpretation.  Even the main hypothesis Lipschits presents (i.e., that LMLK seals were initiated by/for Assyrians) has already been publicly refuted by Ussishkin, myself, & Jeff Hudon, & is not worth mentioning until Lipschits has published the final report on his Ramat Rahel excavations.  I'm hoping to get an article formally published that could be referenced here on Wikipedia, but it's at least a year away; so for now, I believe the current version of this Wikipedia article is accurate on the subject, albeit without the rigorous citations.Funhistory (talk) 03:51, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Latin Phrases
I have been trying to learn latin so I have a little knowlege, but especially for a reader unfamiliar with these phrases, we may want to change some of the sentences with latin phrases to better accomodate readers.

Thanks, Nemoanon (talk) 01:24, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

LMLK Research website as a source for biblical archaeology - run by a Creationist with a B.Sc.
See WP:RSN. Doug Weller talk 14:56, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

 * A user above states they are Grena, . cygnis insignis 19:57, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Removal of Grena references by Weller
I am not going to change any of the revisions performed this week by Doug Weller, which was justified in one edit-summary statement, "Grena is fringe and not affiliated to any academic institution" citing a Masters of Arts paper by GAIL AVRIL RÖTHLIN. I'll simply ask future readers to ponder why Grena's work is invalid for Wikipedia if a paper published by an academic institution (University of South Africa) factually cites his "fringe" self-published book 8 times (alongside the works of James B. Pritchard and William F. Albright, and commends him with, "hope I have done justice to his comments. Although George Grena is not affiliated with any academic institution, I would like to express my admiration for his research", and that Grena's book "covers every conceivable aspect pertaining to" LMLK seals.--Funhistory (talk) 23:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Since you are George Grena, this edit is dubious. The lmlk/tithing theory is, to the best of my knowledge, not part of mainstream scholarship. I don't know all Wikipedia policies, but I don't think Wikipedia editors are allowed to cite their own work promulgating theories that are not part of the mainstream. That edit was 15 years ago and people are allowed to make mistakes. But it casts some doubt on your books. Im The IP  (talk) 00:56, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

 * True, the LMLK-tithing theory is not accepted by mainstream scholarship, but it's part of it. For example, Pieter Gert van der Veen formally acknowledges it in his recently published (2020 Zaphon, Munster) treatise submitted to the University of Mainz in 2017 (section 3.2.1.4.1 on p. 138; footnote 505 on p. 164). Again, I'm not planning to revert Wikipedia pages where this 2004 book's been removed.  Israel Finkelstein permanently established it for the benefit future academicians in Tel Aviv (journal) vol. 39 (2012, p. 79).--Funhistory (talk) 19:00, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Cool! Can you link to those sources or quote them? Then the claims can be added back to Wikipedia. I don't have access so specialized sources. Im The IP  (talk) 15:37, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

 * I'm not interested in making new edits to Wikipedia, other than easy-to-fix typos.--Funhistory (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

 * I'm a bit confused. One of the articles here? P. 79 seems wrong. Doug Weller  talk 17:02, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Sorry, my "79" typo s/b 75. Good catch.--Funhistory (talk) 20:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks. Doug Weller  talk 10:16, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

For those interested in the subject, Rothlin's MA 2009 MA paper was formally published in an article co-authored with her prof. (Magdel le Roux) in Verbum et Ecclesia vol. 34, no. 2 (2013).

 * And it has been agreed at WP:RSN that Le Roux is not a reliable source, eg she relies heavily on Robert Gayre.

Erroneous Addition of Qeiyafa Data by PeakAsian
Per the previous discussion regarding the removal of Grena references by Weller, I am not going to change the misleading/misrepresentative revisions performed last week (2020-10-31) by PeakAsian, which added Khirbet Qeiyafa to the top of the Sites and quantities section with a total of 692, & changed the previous total from 1,716 to 2,408 citing a popular-level 2018 book by Garfinkel, Ganor, Hasel ("In the Footsteps of King David"). This quantity represents the primitive depression-mark handles published by Hoo-Goo Kang and Yosef Garfinkel in Levant vol. 47 no. 2 (2015), "Finger-impressed jar handles at Khirbet Qeiyafa: new light on administration in the Kingdom of Judah", p. 188 (actual total of 693 reported). It's unfortunate that this editor would make such a prominent change without knowing the difference between these typologically, stylistically, chronologically distinct artifacts. I'm simply noting the problem here in case anyone cares about the integrity of this Wikipedia entry.--Funhistory (talk) 02:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:LMLK seal


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Rebutia

Rebutia is a genus of flowering plants in the family Cactaceae, native to Bolivia and Argentina. They are generally small, colorful cacti, globular in form, which freely produce flowers that are relatively large in relation to the body. They have no distinctive ribs, but do have regularly arranged small tubercles. They are considered fairly easy to grow and they may produce large quantities of seeds that germinate freely around the parent plant.

The limits of the genus are currently uncertain – in particular whether or not it includes species formerly or currently placed in the genera Aylostera, Cintia, Sulcorebutia and Weingartia. The number of species included varies widely from source to source. A very large number of plants that have been treated in cultivation as species of Rebutia are now generally regarded as varieties, forms or synonyms of a much smaller number of species.

Taxonomy
The genus was designated in 1895 by Karl Moritz Schumann and named after Pierre Rebut (1828–1902), a French cactus nurseryman. The type species is R. minuscula, which has been in cultivation since 1887.

Limits of the genus
There has been considerable debate about the extent of the genus. In the middle of the twentieth century there was a tendency to separate groups of plants within Rebutia as new genera, e.g. Mediolobivia, whereas towards the end of the century the reverse tendency predominated, with genera previously regarded as separate, such as Weingartia, being subsumed within Rebutia. At the beginning of the twenty-first century there was a broad consensus, as reflected in Kew's list of Vascular Plant Families and Genera, that the following genera should be regarded as synonyms of Rebutia:

• Bridgesia Backeb.

• Cintia Kníže & Říha

• Cylindrorebutia Fric & Kreuz.

• Digitorebutia Fric & Kreuz. (synonym of Aylostera)

• Echinorebutia Fric

• Eurebutia Fric

• Gymnantha Y.Itô

• Mediolobivia Backeb. (synonym of Aylostera)

• Mediorebutia Fric

• Neogymnantha Y.Itô

• Setirebutia Fric & Kreuz.

• Spegazzinia Backeb.

• Sulcorebutia Backeb.

• Weingartia Werderm.

Kew's Plants of the World Online accepts Aylostera Speg. and ''Reicheocactus.

(The generic names Bridgesia, Spegazzinia, Echinorebutia, Eurebutia, Mediorebutia, Neogymnantha and Setirebutia are invalid, the first two because they are homonyms of Bridgesia Bert. ex Cambess. and Spegazzinia Backeb. respectively, the remainder for lack of any valid publication. Some of these are nevertheless valid names for subdivisions of the genus.)

The history of the taxonomic treatment of the genera Rebutia, Aylostera, Weingartia, Sulcorebutia and Cintia is summarized below.

The variation in the treatment of the genus is illustrated by the difference between Mosti et al., who in 2011 treated Aylostera and Weingartia (including Cintia and Sulcorebutia) as distinct from Rebutia, and Plants of the World Online, which continued to separate Aylostera, but merged Cintia, Sulcorebutia and Weingartia into Rebutia.

Species
The number of species is similarly debatable, because of disagreement both over what constitutes the genus and what constitutes a species. A very large number of plants that have circulated as species of Rebutia are now generally regarded as varieties, forms or synonyms of others. E. F. Anderson recognised forty-one species in 2001. The following species are accepted by Plants of the World Online :

Phylogeny
Recent research has indicated that the genus Rebutia as currently defined is polyphyletic. Sulcorebutia and Weingartia were kept as separate genera in the study; a summary cladogram for those species studied is shown below.

Species formerly classified as Weingartia, Sulcorebutia and Cintia show a close relationship to each other and to species of Rebutia with naked pericarpels (Rebutia II), including the type species R. minuscula. The larger group of species of Rebutia studied, those with hairy or bristly pericarpels, form a separate, more distantly related clade (Rebutia I). It is suggested that these be excluded from the genus.

title: Rebutia


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Elbert N. Carvel

Elbert Nostrand "Bert" Carvel (February 9, 1910 – February 6, 2005) was an American businessman and politician from Laurel, in Sussex County, Delaware. He was a member of the Democratic Party, who served as the 12th Lieutenant Governor of Delaware and two non-consecutive terms as the Governor of Delaware.

Early life and family
Carvel was born at Shelter Island, Long Island, New York, son of Arnold W. and Elizabeth Nostrand Carvel. Kent Island, Maryland was his childhood home. He married Ann Hall Valliant in 1932 and they had four children, Edwin, Elizabeth, Ann Hall and Barbara. They were members of St. Philip's Episcopal Church in Laurel, Delaware.

Professional and political career
After moving to Laurel in 1936, he began his management of the Valliant Fertilizer Company, that would continue throughout his political career. In his first attempt at public office, Carvel was elected lieutenant governor in 1944, defeating Republican Clayton Bunting, Sr. He served one term from January 16, 1945, to January 18, 1949.

He appeared on the television show What's My Line? on November 13, 1960, as the nascent Governor-elect (second term) of Delaware where his "line" was "manufactures fertilizers."

Governor of Delaware
Carvel was first elected Governor of Delaware in 1948, defeating Republican Hyland F. George and served one term from January 18, 1949, to January 20, 1953. He lost a bid for a second term in 1952 to U.S. Representative J. Caleb Boggs. Subsequently, he lost an election for U.S. Senate in 1958 to incumbent Republican U.S. Senator John J. Williams. However, he was elected to a second term as Governor of Delaware in 1960, defeating Republican John W. Rollins, a former lieutenant governor. Soon after this, on November 13, 1960, he appeared as a contestant on the TV game show What's My Line?. His line was that he manufactured fertilizer. This time he served from January 17, 1961, until January 19, 1965. Carvel lost a final bid for a U.S. Senate seat in 1964, again to incumbent Republican U.S. Senator John J. Williams.

As only the second Democrat elected governor in 48 years, he was also the first Democrat ever to win two terms. He was opposed to capital punishment and was an early and persistent leader for civil rights legislation in a still politically conservative Delaware. As Governor he led the successful effort to create a Delaware Supreme Court, the lack of which threatened Delaware's ability to handle corporate litigation, and thereby ended Delaware's status as the only state without such a court.

Among his other accomplishments during his tenures in office were the building of the first span of the Delaware Memorial Bridge, developing numerous other roads and highways, establishing the Delaware Public Service Commission and initiating the Delaware State Development Department.

Death and legacy
Carvel died in Laurel, Delaware, three days before what would have been his 95th birthday and is buried at the Carvel Family Cemetery, Kent Island, Maryland.

Known as "Big Bert," Carvel stood 6' 6". He was known as a liberal Democrat from conservative "lower Delaware," and never hesitated to promote causes of importance to him regardless of their impact on his political career or his fertilizer business. The state office building at 820 North French Street, Wilmington is named for him, as is the University of Delaware Research and Education Center in Georgetown. The cafeteria in North Laurel Elementary School is named the "Carvel Room", after him.

Almanac
Elections are held the first Tuesday after November 1. The Governor and Lieutenant Governor take office the third Tuesday of January and have four-year terms.

Images

 * Hall of Governors Portrait Gallery; Portrait courtesy of Historical and Cultural Affairs, Dover.

title: Elbert N. Carvel


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Category:Software stubs

If possible, please use one of the subcategories below.

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Marginal value theorem

The marginal value theorem (MVT) is an optimality model that usually describes the behavior of an optimally foraging individual in a system where resources (often food) are located in discrete patches separated by areas with no resources. Due to the resource-free space, animals must spend time traveling between patches. The MVT can also be applied to other situations in which organisms face diminishing returns.

The MVT was first proposed by Eric Charnov in 1976. In his original formulation: "The predator should leave the patch it is presently in when the marginal capture rate in the patch drops to the average capture rate for the habitat."

Definition
All animals must forage for food in order to meet their energetic needs, but doing so is energetically costly. It is assumed that evolution by natural selection results in animals utilizing the most economic and efficient strategy to balance energy gain and consumption. The Marginal Value Theorem is an optimality model that describes the strategy that maximizes gain per unit time in systems where resources, and thus rate of returns, decrease with time. The model weighs benefits and costs and is used to predict giving up time and giving up density. Giving up time (GUT) is the interval of time between when the animal last feeds and when it leaves the patch. Giving up density (GUD) is the food density within a patch when the animal will choose to move on to other food patches.

When an animal is foraging in a system where food sources are patchily distributed, the MVT can be used to predict how much time an individual will spend searching for a particular patch before moving on to a new one. In general, individuals will stay longer if (1) patches are farther apart or (2) current patches are poor in resources. Both situations increase the ratio of travel cost to foraging benefit.

Modeling
As animals forage in patchy systems, they balance resource intake, traveling time, and foraging time. Resource intake within a patch diminishes with time, as shown by the solid curve in the graph to the right. The curve follows this pattern because resource intake is initially very fast, but slows as the resource is depleted. Traveling time is shown by the distance from the leftmost vertical dotted line to the y-axis. Optimal foraging time is modeled by connecting this point on the x-axis tangentially to the resource intake curve. Doing so maximizes the ratio between resource intake and time spent foraging and traveling.

At the extremes of the loading curve, animals spend too much time traveling for a small payoff, or they search too long in a given patch for an ineffective load. The MVT identifies the best possible intermediate between these extremes.

Assumptions

 * 1) The individual is assumed to control when it leaves the patch in order to maximize the ratio between resource intake and time.
 * 2) The consumer depletes the amount of resources in the patch where they are foraging; therefore, the rate of intake of food in that patch decreases as a function of time.
 * 3) If there is variation in the quality of patches, the MVT assumes that different patches are distributed randomly throughout the landscape.

Humans
A common illustration of the MVT is apple picking in humans. When one first arrives at a new apple tree, the number of apples picked per minute is high, but it rapidly decreases as the lowest-hanging fruits are depleted. Strategies in which too few apples are picked from each tree or where each tree is exhausted are suboptimal because they result, respectively, in time lost travelling among trees or picking the hard to find last few apples from a tree. The optimal time spent picking apples in each tree is thus a compromise between these two strategies, which can be quantitatively found using the MVT.

Optimal foraging in great tits
Great tits are a species of bird found throughout Europe, northern Africa, and Asia. They are known to forage in “patchy” environments, and research has shown that their behavior can be modeled by optimal foraging models, including the MVT. In a 1977 study by R.A. Cowie, birds were deprived of food and then allowed to forage through patches in two different environments (the environments differed only in distance between patches). As predicted, in both cases birds spent more time in one area when the patches were farther away or yielded more benefits, regardless of the environment. In a similar experiment by Naef-Daenzer (1999), great tits were shown to have a foraging efficiency 30% better than random foraging would yield. This is because great tits were specifically spending more time in resource-rich areas, as predicted by the MVT. This data supports the use of the MVT in predicting the foraging behavior of great tits.

Feeding in hairy armadillos and guinea pigs
Experimental evidence has shown that screaming hairy armadillos and guinea pigs qualitatively follow MVT when foraging. The researchers ran several parallel experiments: one for each animal under consistent patch quality, and one for guinea pigs with varying patch quality. While the qualitative foraging trend was shown to follow MVT in each case, the quantitative analysis indicated that each patch was exploited further than expected.

Plant root growth
The MVT can be used to model foraging in plants as well as animals. Plants have been shown to preferentially place their roots, which are their foraging organs, in areas of higher resource concentration. Recall that the MVT predicts that animals will forage for longer in patches with higher resource quality. Plants increase root biomass in layers/areas of soil that are rich in nutrients and resources, and decrease root growth into areas of poor-quality soil. Thus, plants grow roots into patches of soil according to their wealth of resources in a manner consistent with the MVT. Additionally, plant roots grow more quickly through low-quality patches of soil than through high-quality patches of soil, just as foraging animals are predicted to spend less time in low-quality areas than high-quality areas.

Copulation time in dung flies
The MVT can be applied to situations other than foraging in which animals experience diminished returns. Consider, for example, the mating copulation duration of the yellow dung fly. In the dung fly mating system, males gather on fresh cow droppings and wait for females to arrive in smaller groups to lay their eggs. Males must compete with each other for the chance to mate with arriving females—sometimes one male will kick another male off of a female and take over mating with the female mid-copulation. In this instance, the second male fertilizes about 80% of the eggs. Thus, after a male has mated with a female he guards her so that no other males will have the opportunity to mate with her and displace his sperm before she lays her eggs. After the female lays her eggs, the male must take the time to search for another female before he is able to copulate again.

The question, then, is how long the dung fly should spend copulating with each female. On one hand, the longer a male dung fly copulates the more eggs he can fertilize. However, the benefits of extra copulation time diminish quickly, as the male loses the chance to find another female during long copulations. The MVT predicts that the optimal copulation time is just long enough to fertilize about 80% of the eggs; after this time, the rewards are much smaller and are not worth missing out on another mate. This predicted value for copulation time, 40 minutes, is very close to the average observed value, 36 minutes.

In dung flies, the observed values of copulation time and time searching for another mate vary with body weight. Heavier males have shorter search times and shorter copulation times. These shorter search times are likely due to increased cost of travel with increased body weight; shorter copulation times probably reflect that it is easier for heavier males to successfully take over females mid-copulation. Additionally, researchers have taken into account “patch quality,” i.e. the quality of females arriving on the various cowpats. Research also shows that males copulate for longer with the larger females who hold more eggs and have larger reproductive tract dimensions. Thus, males change their copulation time to maximize their fitness, but they are doing so in response to selection imposed by female morphology. Even with these variations, male dung flies do exhibit close-to-optimal copulation time relative to their body size, as predicted by the MVT.

Criticism
Many studies, such as the examples presented above, have shown good qualitative support for predictions generated by the Marginal Value Theorem. However, in some more quantitative studies, the predictions of the MVT haven’t been as successful, with the observed values substantially deviating from predictions. One proposed explanation for these deviations is that it is difficult to objectively measure payoff rates. For example, an animal in an unpredictable environment may need to spend extra time sampling, making it hard for researchers to determine foraging time. Beyond this imprecision, some researchers propose that there is something fundamental missing from the model. Namely, animals are probably doing more than just foraging, whether it be dealing with predation risks or searching for mating opportunities. Natural selection is not the only force influencing the evolution of species. Sexual selection, for example, may alter foraging behaviors, making them less consistent with the MVT. These researchers point out that the marginal value theorem is a starting point, but complexity and nuances must be incorporated into models and tests for foraging and patch-use.

One other type of model that has been used in place of MVT in predicting foraging behavior is the state-dependent behavior model. Although state-dependent models have been viewed as a generalization of the MVT, they are unlikely to generate broadly applicable predictions like those from the MVT because they test predictions under a specific set of conditions. While the predictions of these models must be tested under precise conditions, they might offer valuable insights not available from broader models such as MVT.

title: Marginal value theorem


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Talk:Foraging

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 September 2021 and 3 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Casually Anonymous. Peer reviewers: Koafve, Coffeebeangirl, GracePhiri3750.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

[Untitled]
Hi

I've just made a start on marginal value theorem. Anyone want to improve it?

Robinh 13:20, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Linkspam?
Any reason why the link "Foraging and the Pet Parrot" should be here? Looks to me like a cheap excuse for a link to a pet shop.. --Sascha.leib 12:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed and removed. Richard001 03:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

research report
lots of people may use this article for reports. i suggest expanding it. Roxy:Pkid (talk) 02:27, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

foraging theory?
I came to this page from a link about Sherman's march to the sea, shouldn't this be under foraging theory with this article being about hunter-gatherers or military foraging or both?

Foraged foods
I was looking for info on what people generally forage for, split into different countries where necessary. In Britain, typicals include various mushrooms, elderberry, blackberry, hawthorn, chestnut. Nettles are also popular in Ireland.

82.23.45.88 (talk) 21:33, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Risk Sensitive Foraging Models
Neither article makes much, if any, reference to the content of the other. I would suggest the content at Risk Sensitive Foraging Models belongs in Foraging until such time as that article is of excessive length. Pontificalibus (talk) 10:21, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and do it, no one has objected. Eddie891 Talk Work 15:23, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

 * Oppose The article seems a bit too long to merge without much overlapping content. Seraphim System  ( talk ) 18:22, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Seraphim System; and the topic is independently notable and reliably cited. I think it's time to close this now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:01, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Foraging


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User:Shinjiman

Hi, I am from Hong Kong, currently studying at Perth, Australia.

Pending tasks

 * Compose more articles.
 * Translate more articles.

WikiProjects
Currently, I am working on WikiProject Hong Kong and WikiProject Perth. But it depends on my study time. So I may reduce the frequency of editing during test/exam time.

WikiProject Perth

 * Created
 * Train Lines/Stations: Armadale railway line, Perth, Fremantle railway line, Perth, Joondalup railway line, Perth, Midland railway line, Perth, Perth railway station, McIver railway station, Perth, Claisebrook railway station, Perth, Belmont Park railway station, Perth, Burswood railway station, Perth, Victoria Park railway station, Perth, Lathlain railway station, Perth, Carlisle railway station, Perth, Oats Street railway station, Perth, Welshpool railway station, Perth, Queens Park railway station, Perth, Cannington railway station, Perth, Beckenham railway station, Perth, Kenwick railway station, Perth, Maddington railway station, Perth, Gosnells railway station, Perth, Seaforth railway station, Perth, Kelmscott railway station, Perth, Challis railway station, Perth, Sherwood railway station, Perth, Armadale railway station, Perth, East Perth railway station, Mt Lawley railway station, Perth, Maylands railway station, Perth, Meltham railway station, Perth, Bayswater railway station, Perth, Ashfield railway station, Perth, Bassendean railway station, Perth, Success Hill railway station, Perth, Guildford railway station, Perth, East Guildford railway station, Perth, Woodbridge railway station, Perth, Midland railway station, Perth, Fremantle railway station, Perth, North Fremantle railway station, Perth, Victoria Street railway station, Perth, Mosman Park railway station, Perth, Cottesloe railway station, Perth, Grant Street railway station, Perth, Swanbourne railway station, Perth, Claremont railway station, Perth, Showgrounds railway station, Perth, Loch Street railway station, Perth, Karrakatta railway station, Perth, Shenton Park railway station, Perth, Daglish railway station, Perth, Subiaco railway station, Perth, West Leederville railway station, Perth, City West railway station, Perth
 * Bus Stations: List of Perth bus stations, List of Perth bus routes, CircleRoute, Esplanade Busport, Perth, Booragoon bus station, Perth, Canning Bridge bus station, Perth, Curtin University bus station, Perth, Kalamunda bus station, Perth, Karrinyup bus station, Perth, Kwinana bus station, Perth, Mandurah bus station, Perth, Mirrabooka bus station, Perth, Morley bus station, Perth, Murdoch Park 'n' Ride, Perth, Success Park 'n' Ride, Perth, Rockingham bus station, Perth, Victoria Park bus station, Perth, Wellington Street bus station, Perth
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title: User:Shinjiman


text: Category:High schools in Indiana

title: Category:High schools in Indiana


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Wörter und Sachen

Wörter und Sachen (German for words and things) was a philological movement of the early 20th century that was based largely in Germany and Austria. It is a descriptive research field for linguistic and factual research, which was first presented by R. Mehringer "Wörter und Sachen", Indogermanische Forschungen 17 (1904/1905). Further results were presented in the cultural-historical journal of the same name (Heidelberg 1909 ff.), in English in Th. Bynon, Historical Linguistics. Cambridge 1977.

Its proponents argued that the etymology of words should be studied in close association or in parallel with the study of the artefacts and cultural concepts which the words had denoted. The process would, it was argued, enable researchers to study linguistic data more effectively.

Many of the principles and the theories of the Wörter und Sachen movement have since been incorporated into modern historical linguistics such as the practice of cross-referencing with archaeological data.

title: Wörter und Sachen