text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Goby disease

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was speedy delete. —Korath (Talk) 23:35, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

Goby disease
Only one Google hit. Sounds like nonsense, anyway. RickK 06:15, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep - Until I see definite prrof it doesn't exist, I think it should be kept. Google hits mean nothing. Tsuyoshikentsu 06:25, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * How am I supposed to prove a negative? Like I said, only ONE Google hit.  If this is so common, why aren't there more hits?  Also note that the above User is the creator of the VFD listed articles PhoenixFeathers and Hedgehog (zine).  Seems like a retaliation vote, to me. RickK 06:34, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Self-evident nonsense: "Alternative treatments include finding supernovae". Wolfman 06:41, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - This reeks of silly. One line in the article reads: "The symptoms are not unlike those of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, or Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, or Echolalia."  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find a damned thing in common between those three medical problems.  I suspect this article was written by a fish enthusiast as some kind of joke. BenSamples 06:43, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nonsense. Gazpacho 07:20, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Deletion is the cure for this silly hoax: ...the only treatment includes expensive but cheap drugs from Canada. Alternative treatments include finding supernovae. jni 08:17, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nonsense. Trilobite (Talk) 14:32, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, prank, borders on a speedy but it's harmless to careful readers. Wyss 20:11, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Warning of bogusness placed on page. - Nunh-huh 00:12, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Bogusness? I always thought it was bogosity.  :)  RickK 00:14, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Either way, it's definitely bogolicious.... - Nunh-huh 00:15, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Speed deleted as silly vandalism. Wile E. Heresiarch 07:31, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Gordon S. Wood

Gordon Stewart Wood (born November 27, 1933) is an American historian and professor at Brown University. He is a recipient of the 1993 Pulitzer Prize for History for The Radicalism of the American Revolution (1992). His book The Creation of the American Republic, 1776–1787 (1969) won the 1970 Bancroft Prize. In 2010, he was awarded the National Humanities Medal by President Barack Obama.

Early life and education
Wood was born in Concord, Massachusetts, and grew up in Worcester and Waltham. He graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from Tufts University in 1955 and has served as a trustee there. After serving in the United States Air Force in Japan, during which time he earned an M.A. at Harvard University, he entered the Ph.D. program in history at Harvard, where he studied under Bernard Bailyn, receiving his PhD in 1964.

Career
Wood has taught at Harvard University, the College of William and Mary, the University of Michigan, Brown University, and in 1982–83 was Pitt Professor at Cambridge University.

In addition to his books (listed below), Wood has written numerous influential articles, notably "Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution" (1966), "Conspiracy and the Paranoid Style: Causality and Deceit in the Eighteenth Century" (1982), and "Interests and Disinterestedness in the Making of the Constitution" (1987). He is a frequent contributor to The New York Review of Books and The New Republic.

A recent project was the third volume of the Oxford History of the United States – Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic, 1789–1815 (2009) – a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize.

Contributing to the anthology Our American Story (2019), Wood addressed the possibility of a shared American narrative. He focused on the idea of equality as "the most radical and most powerful ideological force" that the American Revolution unleashed. "This powerful sense of equality is still alive and well in America, and despite all of its disturbing and unsettling consequences, it is what makes us one people." Wood was elected as a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 1988 and the American Philosophical Society in 1994.

In popular culture
Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich publicly and effusively praised Wood's The Radicalism of the American Revolution (1992). Wood, who met Gingrich once in 1994, surmised that Gingrich may have approved because the book "had a kind of Toquevillian touch to it, I guess, maybe suggesting American exceptionalism, that he liked". He jokingly described Gingrich's praise in an interview on C-SPAN in 2002 as "the kiss of death for me among a lot of academics, who are not right-wing Republicans."

Wood was mentioned in the 1997 film Good Will Hunting. In one scene, Matt Damon's character mentions Gordon Wood while standing up to a Harvard student who is ridiculing Ben Affleck's character at a bar. He accuses the Harvard student of shallowly reiterating ideas he has encountered in his coursework, telling him that soon he would be "regurgitating Gordon Wood, talking about [...] the pre-Revolutionary utopia and the capital-forming effects of military mobilization." Wood said of the scene, "That’s my two seconds of fame! More kids know about that than any of the books I have written." This scene was later parodied by the television show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, in which the character Charlie Kelly attempts to "pull a Good Will Hunting" and asks "does no one know who Gordon Wood is?"

Personal life
Wood married the former Louise Goss on April 30, 1956. They have three children.

Books

 * The Creation of the American Republic, 1776–1787. Chapel Hill, North Carolina: University of North Carolina Press, 1969.
 * The Radicalism of the American Revolution. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1992. (ISBN 978-0679736882)
 * The American Revolution: A History. New York: Modern Library, 2001. (ISBN 978-0812970418)
 * The Americanization of Benjamin Franklin. New York: Penguin Press, 2004. (ISBN 978-0143035282)
 * Revolutionary Characters: What Made the Founders Different. New York: Penguin Press, 2006. (ISBN 978-0143112082)
 * The Purpose of the Past: Reflections on the Uses of History. New York: Penguin Press, 2008. (ISBN 978-0143115045)
 * Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic, 1789–1815. New York: Oxford University Press, 2010. (ISBN 978-0199832460)
 * The Idea of America: Reflections on the Birth of the United States. New York: Penguin, 2011. (ISBN 978-0143121244)
 * Friends Divided: John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. New York: Penguin, 2017. (ISBN 978-0735224735)
 * Power and Liberty: Constitutionalism in the American Revolution. New York: Oxford University Press, 2021. (ISBN 978-0197546918)

Pamphlets and lectures

 * Revolution and the Political Integration of the Enslaved and Disenfranchised. Washington, DC: American Enterprise Institute, 1974. (ISBN 978-0844713045)
 * The Making of the Constitution. Waco, Texas: Baylor University Press, 1987. (ISBN 978-0918954541)
 * Monarchism and Republicanism in the Early United States. (Melbourne, Australia: La Trobe University, 2000.

Co-Author

 * (With J.R. Pole) Social Radicalism and the Idea of Equality in the American Revolution. Houston, Texas: University of St. Thomas, 1976.
 * (With others) The Great Republic. Boston: Little, Brown, 1977; 4th ed.: Lexington, Massachusetts: Heath, 1992.

Book chapters

 * (Contributor) Leadership in the American Revolution. Washington, DC: Library of Congress, 1974.
 * Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson: History, Memory, and Civic Culture. Peter Onuf and Jan Lewis (eds.), Charlottesville, Virginia: University of Virginia Press, 1999.
 * To the Best of My Ability: The American Presidency. James M. McPherson (ed.). New York: Society of American Historians, 2000.
 * Our American Story. Joshua Claybourn (ed.), Lincoln, Nebraska: Potomac Books, 2019. (ISBN 978-1640121706)

As editor

 * Representation in the American Revolution. Charlottesville, Virginia: University of Virginia Press, 1969. (ISBN 978-0813927220)
 * The Rising Glory of America, 1760–1820. New York: George Braziller, 1971. Rev. ed.: Boston: Northeastern University Press, 1990. (ISBN 978-1555530907)
 * The Confederation and the Constitution. Boston: Little, Brown, 1973.
 * With Louise G. Wood. Russian-American Dialogue on the American Revolution. Columbia, Missouri: University of Missouri Press, 1995.
 * With Paul A. Gilje et al. Wages of Independence: Capitalism in the Early American Republic. Rowman & Littlefield, 1997. (ISBN 978-0945612520)
 * With Anthony Molho. Imagined Histories: American Historians Interpret the Past. Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1998. (ISBN 978-0691058115)
 * John Adams: Revolutionary Writings 1755–1783 (2 vols.). New York: The Library of America, 2011. (ISBN 978-1598530902)
 * The American Revolution: Writings from the Pamphlet Debate 1764–1776 (2 vols.). New York: The Library of America, 2015. (ISBN 978-1598533781)
 * John Adams: Writings from the New Nation 1784–1826. New York: The Library of America, 2016. (ISBN 978-1598534665)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Gordon S. Wood


text:
Transcortical sensory aphasia

Transcortical sensory aphasia (TSA) is a kind of aphasia that involves damage to specific areas of the temporal lobe of the brain, resulting in symptoms such as poor auditory comprehension, relatively intact repetition, and fluent speech with semantic paraphasias present. TSA is a fluent aphasia similar to Wernicke's aphasia (receptive aphasia), with the exception of a strong ability to repeat words and phrases. The person may repeat questions rather than answer them ("echolalia").

In all of these ways, TSA is very similar to a more commonly known language disorder, receptive aphasia. However, transcortical sensory aphasia differs from receptive aphasia in that patients still have intact repetition and exhibit echolalia, or the compulsive repetition of words. Transcortical sensory aphasia cannot be diagnosed through brain imaging techniques such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), as the results are often difficult to interpret. Therefore, clinicians rely on language assessments and observations to determine if a patient presents with the characteristics of TSA. Patients diagnosed with TSA have shown partial recovery of speech and comprehension after beginning speech therapy. Speech therapy methods for patients with any subtype of aphasia are based on the principles of learning and neuroplasticity. Clinical research on TSA is limited because it occurs so infrequently in patients with aphasia that it is very difficult to perform systematic studies.

TSA should not be confused with transcortical motor aphasia (TMA), which is characterized by nonfluent speech output, with good comprehension and repetition. Patients with TMA have impaired writing skills, difficulty speaking and difficulty maintaining a clear thought process. Furthermore, TMA is caused by lesions in cortical motor areas of the brain as well as lesions in the anterior portion of the basal ganglia, and can be seen in patients with expressive aphasia.

Affected brain areas

Transcortical sensory aphasia is caused by lesions in the inferior left temporal lobe of the brain located near Wernicke's area, and is usually due to minor hemorrhage or contusion in the temporal lobe, or infarcts of the left posterior cerebral artery (PCA). One function of the arcuate fasciculus is the connection between Wernicke’s and Broca’s area. In TSA Wernicke’s and Broca’s areas are spared, meaning that lesions do not occur in these regions of the brain. However, since the arcuate fasciculus, Wernicke's area, and Broca's area are secluded from the rest of the brain in TSA, patients still have intact repetition (as information from the arcuate fasciculus is relayed to Broca’s area), but cannot attach meaning to words, either spoken or heard.

Characteristics
Transcortical sensory aphasia is characterized as a fluent aphasia. Fluency is determined by direct qualitative observation of the patient’s speech to determine the length of spoken phrases, and is usually characterized by a normal or rapid rate; normal phrase length, rhythm, melody, and articulatory agility; and normal or paragrammatic speech. Transcortical sensory aphasia is a disorder in which there is a discrepancy between phonological processing, which remains intact, and lexical-semantic processing, which is impaired. Therefore, patients can repeat complicated phrases, however they lack comprehension and propositional speech. This disconnect occurs since Wernicke’s area is not damaged in patients with TSA, therefore repetition is spared while comprehension is affected. Patients with intact repetition can repeat both simple and complex phrases spoken by others, e.g. when asked if the patient would like to go for a walk, he or she would respond "go for walk." Although patients can respond appropriately, due to the extent of their TSA, it is most likely that they do not comprehend what others ask them. In addition to problems in comprehension, transcortical sensory aphasia is further characterized based on deficits in naming and paraphasia.

Verbal comprehension
Impaired verbal comprehension can be the result a number of causes such as failure of speech sound discrimination, word recognition, auditory working memory, or syntactic structure building. When clinically examined, patients with TSA will exhibit poor comprehension of verbal commands. Based on the extent of the comprehension deficiency, patients will have difficulty following simple commands, e.g. “close your eyes.” Depending on the extent of affected brain area, patients are able to follow simple commands but may not be able to comprehend more difficult, multistep commands, e.g. “point to the ceiling, then touch your left ear with your right hand." Verbal commands as such, that require the patient to cross over the midline of their body are typically more taxing than commands that involve solely the right or left side. When increasing the complexity of verbal commands comprehension is often tested by varying the grammatical structure of the command to determine whether or not the patient understands different grammatical variations of the same sentence. Commands involving the passive voice or possessive, e.g. "If the snake killed the mouse, which one is still alive," usually result in comprehension problems in those who can understand simple questions.

Naming
Naming involves the ability to recall an object. Patients with TSA, as well as patients with all other aphasia subtypes, exhibit poor naming. Clinical assessment of naming involves the observer first asking the patient to name high frequency objects such as clock, door, and chair. TSA patients who name common objects with ease generally have difficulty naming both uncommon objects and specific parts of objects such as lapel, or the dial on a watch.

Paraphasia
Patients with TSA typically exhibit paraphasia; their speech is fluent but often error-prone. Their speech is often unintelligible as they tend to use the wrong words, e.g. tree instead of train or uses words in senseless and incorrect combinations.

Clinical assessment
Sensory aphasia is typically diagnosed by non-invasive evaluations. Neurologists, neuropsychologists or speech pathologists will administer oral evaluations to determine the extent of a patient’s comprehension and speech capability. Initial assessment will determine if the cause of linguistic deficiency is aphasia. If the diagnosis is then confirmed, testing will next address the type of aphasia and its severity. The Boston Diagnostic Aphasia Examination specializes in determining the severity of a sensory aphasia through the observation of conversational behaviors. Several modalities of perception and response are observed in conjunction with the subject’s ability to process sensory information. The location of the brain lesion and type of the aphasia can then be inferred from the observed symptoms. The Minnesota Test for Differential Diagnosis is the most lengthy and thorough assessment of sensory aphasia. It pinpoints weaknesses in the auditory and visual senses, as well as reading comprehension. From this differential diagnosis, a patient’s course of treatment can be determined. After treatment planning, the Porch Index of Communicative Ability is used to evaluate prognosis and the degree of recovery.

Imaging

Sensory aphasia cannot be diagnosed through the use of imaging techniques. Differences in cognition between asymptomatic subjects and affected patients can be observed via functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). However, these results only reveal temporal differences in cognition between control and diagnosed subjects. The degree of progression during therapy can also be surveyed through cognition tests monitored by fMRI. Many patients’ progress is assessed over time via repeated testing and corresponding cerebral imaging by fMRI.

Management
Due to advances in modern neuroimaging, scientists have been able to gain a better understanding of how language is learned and comprehended. Based on the new data from the world of neuroscience, improvements can be made in coping with the disorder.

Therapists have been developing multiple methods of improving speech and comprehension. These techniques utilize three general principles: maximizing therapy occurrences, ensuring behavioral and communicative relevance, and allowing patients to focus on the language tools that are still available in his or her repertoire.

Many of the following treatment techniques are used to improve auditory comprehension in patients with aphasia:
 * Using common words
 * Using concrete nouns is more effective than using adjectives, adverbs, or verbs
 * Using action verbs that are easily imagined
 * Concise and grammatically simple sentences as opposed to lengthy sentences
 * Speaking slowly, repeating oneself several times when conversing with aphasic patients
 * Using gestures

A relatively new method of language therapy involves coincidence learning. Coincidence learning focuses on the simultaneous learning of two or more events and stipulates that these events are wired together in the brain, strengthening the learning process. Therapists use coincidence learning to find and improve language correlations or coincidences that have been either damaged or deleted by severe cases of aphasia, such as transcortical sensory aphasia. This technique is important in brain function and recovery, as it strengthens associated brain areas that remain unaffected after brain damage. It can be achieved with intensive therapy hours in order to maximize time where correlation is emphasized.

Through careful analysis of neuroimaging studies, a correlation has been developed with motor function and the understanding of action verbs. For example, leg and motor areas were seen to be activated words such as "kick", leading scientists to understand the connection between motor and language processes in the brain. This is yet another example of using relationships that are related in the brain for the purpose of rehabilitating speech and comprehension.

Of huge importance in aphasia therapy is the need to start practicing as soon as possible. Greater recovery occurs when a patient attempts to improve their comprehension and speaking soon after aphasia occurs. There is an inverse relationship between the length of time spent not practicing and level of recovery. The patient should be pushed to their limits of verbal communication in order for them to practice and build upon their remaining language skills.

One effective therapy technique is using what are known as language games in order to encourage verbal communication. One famous example is known as "Builder's Game", where a 'builder' and a 'helper' must communicate in order to effectively work on a project. The helper must hand the builder the tools he or she may need, which requires effective oral communication. The builder succeeds by requesting tools from the assistant by usually using single word utterances, such as 'hammer' or 'nail'. Thus, when the helper hands the tool to the builder, the game incorporates action with language, a key therapy technique. The assistant would then hand the builder the requested tool. Success of the game occurs when the builder's requests are specific to ensure successful building.

Ultimately, regardless of therapy plan or method, improvement in speech does not appear overnight; it requires a significant time investment by the patient as well as a dedicated speech therapist seeking to ensure that the patient is focusing on the correct speech tasks outside of the clinic. Furthermore, the patient must collaborate with friends and family members during their free time in order to maximize the efficacy of the treatment.

title: Transcortical sensory aphasia


text:
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Talk:Princess of Wales Theatre

Untitled
According to the Mirvish Website, the Canon theatre continues to be owned by Clear Channel Communications.Dhodges 06:23, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

the LOTR link is to LOTR itself, and not the musical. that said, i couldn't find a page about the LOTR musical itself though... Chensiyuan 09:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually there is a fairly substantial section on Dramatic productions in The LOTR article. I fixed the link to reflect this. -Dhodges 01:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Princess of Wales Theatre


text:
Template talk:Virginia

The history of the template prior to a move in early 2005 may be found at Template:Virginia/Draft.

Changes
I do not agree with the changes in the template:Virginia. Washington DC is not a major city of Virginia, in fact, its not even in Virginia! And, how does one include Roanoke and exclude many larger cities? Please explain and perhaps we can work out the bugs. Vaoverland 06:23, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

I am reverting this template page to the earlier vesrion. The new version will be listed under draft. There are too many porblems which are not being addresses yet to not take this action. Vaoverland 01:34, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I think I found where I erred. I intended the Washington, DC link to go to access the 1,789,227-resident Virginia portion of the Washington, DC urban area. I redirected that link to "Northern Virginia," a page that I didn't really notice already exists.

Likewise, "Virginia Beach" now goes to "Hampton Roads," a metro area that includes Newport News, Hampton, Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Portsmouth.

And Richmond (the metro area) now goes to "Richmond-Petersburg," the metro area.

Roanoke, with 197,442 residents in its urbanized area, ranks next. The larger cities (by population) are mostly included in "Hampton Roads," all included in the other metro areas, and in any case, are listed under "Independent Cities." Roanoke apparently doesn't have its own metropolitan area page, so I just linked it to the city of Roanoke.

Tell me if you like the new draft.

Dufekin 13:49, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

OK, some suggestions intended to be constructive. Part of the problem I (and others) have with the current Wikipedia articles is that geographic regions (pretty much defined by the state) and economic regions (MSA's as defined and redefined by the feds) are not the same. The MSA'a even cross state lines, which is functionally correct but is beyond state-level thinking. (I am in in Richmond,Virginia|Richmond), where the label "former president" still brings the name Jeff to the minds of many. Your revised template could help clarify the difference between economic and largely geographic regions used by the state. Fortunately, both seem to respect county/city borders, so the confusion is limited somewhat.

Under regions, if there was room, I would indicate geographic for clarity. If MSAs are listed separately, then you should restore Virginia Peninsula and South Hampton Roads. To satisfy another editor, I have compromised and agreed to call them "subregions" in the Hampton Roads article, as the other editor insists on calling the MSA for that area a "region". If you don't change your Metro entry to match that, you may run afoul of the same editor and thinking, (and we are all trying to get better stuff into WP, after all).

Under Metros, I would change the label Metros to MSA. You can alsway footnote that or link it (ie MSA. How can you go wrong? To us, "Metro" is WMATA in Northern Virginia.

If you intend to use the MSAs (or Metro) space for the big MSAs, you should lable them by the names listed by the OMB. Under rights, the word State might fit better next to Colony. I don't feel strongly about that, but please don't use "States Rights". The American Civil War and the issue of States Rights should be behind us.

That's all for now. Your new template is a lot prettier than the old one. Vaoverland 15:50, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

UPDATE: regarding MSA's, there are at least 12 in Virginia. I will work on a list, and then article to match. A link for some of the info is http://www.vcu.edu/cppweb/urban/MSAJune03.pdf. An incomplete DRAFT, with at least four more MSAs not yet listed, may be found at List of U.S. Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA) in Virginia. For the template, I would do away with "smaller urban areas", and use the space to list all of the MSAs, perhaps by their correct titles, to which you can link from my list. I will be working on adding the missing MSAs (at edges of the state on 3 sides) and then on article for each MSA using the linked titles found on the list (all red for now). Vaoverland 17:22, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

ANOTHER UPDATE: I think I have figured it out. There are 11 MSA's partially or completely in Virginia under the June 2003 OMB revisions. I will work on an article for each of the 11 as listed in the List of U.S. Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSA) in Virginia. It might actually be helpful to caption the category on the template as Metro MSAs, since the OMB now has another category of "micro statistical areas", which someone could confuse with the acronym for the larger units were are describing (or at least trying to)! I would still do away with attempt at listing the smaller urban areas, as they define easy definitions without inherent unfairness. Your current list will mislead a reader, I fear (no offense intended). Vaoverland 19:34, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

I have been working on another article, Lost Counties, Cities and Towns of Virginia Vaoverland 05:02, Feb 24, 2005 (UTC)

New Template Ready?
Hi all. Mahtanza brought to my attention that the Virginia article still has its outdated template sitting at the bottom. This new template looks great. Is this project stalled or perhaps finished? Is this go for launch? Thanks! Monkeyman 23:12, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

U.S. state templates
WikiProject U.S. states/state templates lists and displays all 50 U.S. state (and additional other) templates. It potentially can be used for ideas and standardization. //MrD9 07:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Smaller urban centers
If Warrenton gets in, Leesburg and Culpeper ought to be included in that list. If Abingdon gets in, so too should Wytheville, Marion and maybe Norton/Wise (the two are virtually next door to each other). Maybe Pulaski can get in as well (I didn't know it was pushing 10k in population) and there is sufficient "open space" between it and Roanoke. If Suffolk gets in, then so should Poquoson and Williamsburg, although all three are really covered under the Virginia Beach/Hampton Roads area. FWIW, those outside the area refer to the whole cluster as "Tidewater" or "Hampton Roads" similarly to how those outside of Northern Virginia refer to the whole area as "NoVA."

Also, should this template go in for any city or state in Virginia? Shawn Pickrell 15:53, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

My changes
I added some of the smaller urban centers I mentioned earlier. Leesburg is the largest incorporated town in the state (as opposed to independent city). Culpeper has over 10,000 people. Wytheville and Marion are the same size as Abingdon. Poquoson and Williamsburg are also significant areas; if Suffolk qualifies as a "smaller urban center" (as opposed to part of the Tidewater area), then so too should Williamsburg and Poquoson. I don't know if Pulaski should get in, or if Norton/Wise have a combined weight making them worthy of inclusion.

"Nova", while a nickname that ought to be mentioned in the Northern Virginia article, is more heavily used by the rest of the state than the region itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawn Pickrell (talk • contribs) 20:17, 11 August 2006

Towns section
Out of all the State templates, only New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and South Carolina have "Towns" listed on their template. I would not wish to duplicate New Hampshire's, and Rhode Island is small enough to not matter, but with Virginia the template could go on and on I feel. It is not practical to list every town on what should be a topic centered template. Perhaps Virginia towns can be its own template, and in that hope I included the wikitext of the section below this comment.--Patrick «» 03:24, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I went ahead and did up Template:Virginia towns. Thoughts?--Patrick «» 03:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Great idea. I will add it to my "work-in-progress" page, Stephens City, Virginia momentarily. -  NeutralHomer  •  Talk  • January 14, 2009 @ 03:38

Light green
Is there a particular reason why this template is light green? I understand the idea of trying to match the flag, but it doesn't exactly match. Wouldn't it be better to just go with the default used by navbox to avoid having a rainbow at the bottom of the page when this navbox is next to another one and per WP:ACCESSIBILITY? Please let me know if there is a strong reason to have it a particular color. I noticed this was attempted recently, but was reverted, so I thought I would be proactive and start a thread here to avoid an edit war. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 21:51, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Since there were no objections, I went ahead and made the change. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  03:25, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Virginia


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cannitology

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Mackensen (talk) 00:57, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cannitology
hoax. a very widespread, but very secret religion. so secret that it would appear we are the only outsiders who now know of it. Wolfman 06:23, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Tiresome fiction, delete. -- Hoary 06:55, 2005 Feb 16 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable - zero Google hits, hoax. Megan1967 07:07, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Trilobite (Talk) 14:32, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * So smoking cannabis is a a religion now, is it? Delete. Uncle G 15:36, 2005 Feb 16 (UTC)
 * doh! i get it now. well, it's at least funny now instead of just weird. Wolfman 16:17, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, twaddle humour. Wyss 20:09, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. While little is known of their rites and sacraments, Cannitology is not yet notable enough to be Wikipedia. Zzyzx11 01:27, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text: User talk:70.48.116.137

title: User talk:70.48.116.137


text: User talk:131.162.150.52

title: User talk:131.162.150.52


text:
User talk:Profound message

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James Bond in video games

The James Bond video game franchise is a series centering on Ian Fleming's fictional British MI6 agent, James Bond. Games of the series have been predominantly shooter games, with some games of other genres including role-playing and adventure games. Several games are based upon the James Bond films and developed and published by a variety of companies, The intellectual property is owned by Danjaq.

Early era (1983–1994)
In 1983, Parker Brothers released the first officially licensed James Bond video game, James Bond 007, for multiple platforms. An earlier unofficial game, Shaken but Not Stirred, had been released in 1982.

Since 1983, there have been numerous video games based on the films, Ian Fleming's novels, and original scripts created by the developer or publisher of the game. Mindscape, Domark, Interplay, and THQ all created James Bond games.

The video games were somewhat profitable in the 1980s and early 1990s, featuring a mixture of styles including side-scrolling action and text adventure.

Nintendo era (1995–1998)
The popularity of the James Bond video game series did not rise quickly until 1997's GoldenEye 007 by Rare for the Nintendo 64. GoldenEye 007 expanded on the plot of the film GoldenEye and is a first-person shooter with a multiplayer mode. The game received very positive reviews and sold over eight million copies.

In 1998, Nintendo released James Bond 007 for the Game Boy developed by Saffire. The game features a story including characters from multiple James Bond films, such as Oddjob and Jaws. It also incorporates gambling minigames, such as Baccarat and Blackjack.

Electronic Arts era (1999–2005)
Electronic Arts took over the license from MGM Interactive when a video game based on Tomorrow Never Dies was in development in 1998. Taking the initial concepts for the video game adaptation, developer Black Ops Entertainment handled the final form of the title and the game saw the light of day in 1999 on PlayStation and met mixed reviews from critics, albeit becoming a financial success. The following entry was to be based on The World Is Not Enough, consisting of several versions released on multiple platforms, including one on Nintendo 64 developed by Eurocom, a version for PlayStation developed by Black Ops Entertainment, and Game Boy Color by 2n Productions, with all three meeting different results in spite of being commercially successful. Unlike the former two versions – first-person shooters – the Game Boy Color version is played from a top-down perspective.

In 2001, EA released Agent Under Fire for PlayStation 2, GameCube, and Xbox, featuring an original storyline and lacking the likeness of then Bond actor Pierce Brosnan. The game added the elements of "rail" shooting and driving segments to a first-person shooter. The game sold nearly 5 million copies, making it the second-most successful game in the series, while only receiving mixed reviews. There are no differences between the console versions.

In 2002, Nightfire was released, coinciding with the 40th anniversary of the film franchise and using Brosnan's likeness for the Bond character, but not his voice. It was developed by Eurocom for the GameCube, PlayStation 2, and Xbox consoles, with a PC port by Gearbox Software and a Mac port by Aspyr. The computer versions are substantially different from the console versions, featuring different missions, a modified story line, and online play. In 2003, the game also had a Game Boy Advance version by JV Games, which also differs from both the console versions and PC versions.

In 2004, EA released Everything or Nothing, developed by EA Redwood, for the GameCube, PlayStation 2 and Xbox. Unlike the two previous installments, Everything or Nothing is a third-person shooter with driving missions, and it stars the voices and likenesses of Pierce Brosnan, Judi Dench, Willem Dafoe and John Cleese, among others. It was written by the scriptwriter of GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies, screenwriter Bruce Feirstein, with a plot connected to the Roger Moore Bond film A View to a Kill. It was released to mostly positive reviews. A different version of Everything or Nothing was also developed by Griptonite Games for the Game Boy Advance.

Later that year, GoldenEye: Rogue Agent was released on the same platforms with the exception of the Game Boy Advance version. A first-person shooter loosely connected to the Bond franchise a spin-off, it stars a former MI6 spy known as "GoldenEye", who works for Auric Goldfinger against Dr. Julius No. The game received mixed reviews. The game was released on PlayStation 2, Xbox, GameCube and Nintendo DS. EA listed 007 Racing and GoldenEye: Rogue Agent as spin-offs, out of their canonical order they have built.

2005 saw the release of From Russia with Love, based on the 1963 film of the same name. It stars Sean Connery as James Bond, and the other characters had the same likeness of the original cast. The game is a third-person shooter in the same style as Everything or Nothing, with expansions in the story and certain details changed (such as trading SPECTRE for OCTOPUS, due to legal problems). The game received positive reviews, and was released on GameCube, Xbox, PS2 and PSP.

Electronic Arts announced in 2006 a game based on then-upcoming Casino Royale, but it ended up being cancelled, because it would not be ready by the film's release in November. This fact, which would lead MGM to lose millions in licensing fees, along with EA's commitment to move away from movie franchise games and focus more on internal intellectual properties, led the company to abandon the Bond franchise in May 2006.

Activision era (2006–2013)
Shortly after Electronic Arts abandoned the license, in May 2006, Activision acquired non-exclusive rights to develop and publish James Bond games, which were to become exclusive in 2007. Activision's first game was Quantum of Solace, which was based on the 2008 film of the same name as well as the previous film Casino Royale. It was developed by Treyarch for PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Wii and PC; Eurocom for PlayStation 2 and Vicarious Visions for the Nintendo DS. The game was released on 31 October 2008 and received mixed reviews, with the PlayStation 2 version receiving the best reviews.

At E3 2010, Nintendo revealed GoldenEye 007, a remake for the Wii of the 1997 game. Developed by Eurocom, using their Dead Space: Extraction game engine, the game updated the story of the movie, with a script by Bruce Feirstein and the current Bond actor Daniel Craig as 007. It was released in November 2010 in all regions and received positive reviews from critics. Approximately a year later, an enhanced port of the game entitled GoldenEye 007: Reloaded was released for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. The port featured HD graphics, new missions and PlayStation Move support on the PS3 version.

Activision's third Bond game, Blood Stone was released on the same day as GoldenEye 007 in November 2010. Developed by Bizarre Creations, the game returned to being a third person shooter, featured an original story and starred Daniel Craig, Judi Dench and Joss Stone, the latter of which also sang on the game's theme song "I'll Take It All". It was released for PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PC and DS and received mixed reviews from critics. Developer Bizarre Creations was closed down by Activision in early 2011 just a few months after the game's release.

On 19 April 2012, Activision announced plans for a game titled 007 Legends to coincide with the fiftieth anniversary of the James Bond film franchise. The game was described as a "greatest hits compilation", retelling six film narratives with an overarching storyline to connect them together. The missions were revealed to be based upon Goldfinger, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Moonraker, Licence to Kill and Die Another Day. On 9 November 2012, Activision added the last mission to the game, released as a downloadable content, which was based on Skyfall. The game was released for PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PC and Wii U and received mixed reviews from critics. Developer Eurocom shut down soon after the game's release in December 2012.

On 4 January 2013, Activision and Steam's online stores removed online availability and pages for Quantum of Solace, Blood Stone, and 007 Legends without explanation or warning, only to confirm three days later that the James Bond game license was revoked. A month later, Activision themselves declared that they would be backing away from licensed games in a formal statement.

Hiatus and IO Interactive era (2014–present)
On 7 January 2014, president and co-founder of Telltale Games, Kevin Bruner had expressed an interest in making a future James Bond game if he were afforded the chance. He stated that "I'm a giant James Bond fan and I'm always frustrated by games that make him a mass murderer." When he was asked which license he would adapt next if money and licensing hurdles were not a factor. "He's a super-spy, and that's a different skillset. The films make him less of a mass murderer, and there's not much killing in the books – more spying and intrigue." A rumour surfaced in June 2017 that Telltale was working on a video game entitled 007 Solstice. However, its status proved unlikely when Telltale filed for bankruptcy and closed down in November 2018.

On 21 January 2016, president of Curve Digital Dominic Wheatley expressed his interest alongside the company in the series, saying "I'd be very happy to have a James Bond licence. We could do a cracking game around that," adding that these opportunities are overlooked by the bigger firms, since Electronic Arts and Activision have their own IPs and no longer want to "promote someone else's brand."

In November 2020, IO Interactive announced Project 007, a brand new James Bond video game, working closely with licensors MGM and Eon Productions. IO described the game as a "wholly original Bond story" where "players will step into the shoes of the world's favorite Secret Agent to earn their 00 status in the very first Bond origin story." The game is currently in pre-production with no set release date,.

Cancelled games
Shortly after James Bond 007 was released in 1983 by Parker Brothers, another video game was announced, titled Octopussy, based on the film of the same name. The game was planned for release on the Atari 2600 System, Mattel Intellivision, and compatible systems. Set for release in the summer of 1983, it was cancelled for unknown reasons shortly after it was announced by Parker Brothers.
 * Octopussy (1983)

A racing version of GoldenEye 007 was announced for the Virtual Boy. The game was cancelled in 1996.
 * GoldenEye 007 (1997; 2008)

A remastered version of the Nintendo 64 game GoldenEye 007 by Rare was scheduled for release on Xbox 360's Live Arcade on 27 February 2008, but Microsoft (who acquired Rare and their intellectual properties in 2002) couldn't get the publishing rights from the intellectual property owners, Danjaq, LLC, resulting in the cancelation of the project, despite being nearly completed. It was rumored that Nintendo (the publisher of the original title) or Activision (who had exclusive rights to publish video games based on the James Bond franchise at the time) may have been involved in the project's cancellation, but no sources confirm the rumor. Despite this, in January 2021, a near-final build of the game was leaked online from an unknown source, which led to many players playing the ROM via emulation.

The original VHS release of Tomorrow Never Dies featured a brief trailer with Desmond Llewelyn which highlighted a game that would "start where the film ends". Footage shows Bond skiing, scuba diving and driving in third person and on a first-person shooting mission. The game was to come out on PlayStation and PC in the fall of 1998 and was being made by MGM Interactive, not EA; EA was not involved in Bond until November of that year. Because MGM's motion picture division had licensed exclusive James Bond console rights to Nintendo (for GoldenEye 007 for the Nintendo 64), MGM had to buy some of their rights back from Nintendo in order to make the game.
 * Tomorrow Never Dies: The Mission Continues (1998)

A Tomorrow Never Dies game was released on 16 November 1999, distributed by EA, but with notable differences from the 1998 attempt. The game was a third-person shooter with no scuba diving level. The story follows the plot of the film, not the continuation that had been planned.

A level in the game sees Bond skiing down a mountain and killing a Japanese terrorist named Sotoshi Isagura (who had featured very briefly in the film), while on another stage Bond has a driving mission in Switzerland. These were not from the film and may have survived from the 'continuation' story.

A game based on the 1999 film The World Is Not Enough film and using the Quake III Arena engine for the PC and PlayStation 2 was cancelled in favour of Agent Under Fire. Electronic Arts thought, by 2001, that too much time had passed since the release of the film, and that fans would be no longer interested in the product as talks of the succeeding film in the series, Die Another Day, were taking place.
 * The World Is Not Enough (2000)

A PlayStation 2 sequel to 007 Racing was rumoured to be in development.
 * 007 Racing sequel (2001)

EA Games began conceptual work on the game in 2003, under the working title of Bond6. The game was originally meant to be released in 2005, set to star Pierce Brosnan as James Bond. A video game adaptation of From Russia with Love began development when Brosnan announced that he was stepping down from the role, which ended plans for Bond6. The opening level planned for the former was retooled for the latter, and CGI work intended for the game was reused in television commercials for GoldenEye: Rogue Agent.
 * Bond6 (2005)

A game was in development based on the film of the same name. Daniel Craig, in character as Bond, was going to give his voice and likeness to the video game. It was set to release on the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 platforms. The game was 15% developed when the project was cancelled, as Electronic Arts would not finish it by the film's release in November 2006. Later, unfinished development screenshots from the Venice level were uncovered. Activision's debut in the series, Quantum of Solace, combines the storylines of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace.
 * Casino Royale (2006)

In December 2010, some screenshots and a video were leaked online that depicted a new James Bond game, which shared similar gameplay to its predecessor, Blood Stone. Reportedly, the project had been in development by Raven Software, but was postponed six months prior to the leak, at which point the game was believed to be back in development. However, the game was ultimately cancelled due to Blood Stone's poor sales.
 * Blood Stone sequel (2011)

In January 2012, it was announced that a video game based on Skyfall would be released by Activision. Ultimately, a downloadable level based on Skyfall was released for Activision's 007 Legends, although a full game was not released.
 * Skyfall (2012)

Mobile and smartphone games
Since 2002, games featuring the Bond character and the 007 trademark have been published and distributed on mobile phones. The first two are based on action sequences from Die Another Day, one of them is titled Hover Chase and the other is Ice Racer. Both were published by Vodafone.

With the official reboot of the film franchise in 2006, Sony Online Entertainment released a side-scroll action game based on Casino Royale developed by Glu Mobile, following a storyline inspired by the film. Similarly, an identical tie-in based on Quantum of Solace was released in 2008 by the same team. The same year, Sony Online Entertainment Los Angeles developed and published an arcade fighting game to coincide with the aforementioned film, entitled Top Agent.

In 2014, it was reported that Glu Mobile was working on another mobile game bearing the James Bond license. A year later, its title was revealed as World of Espionage, a point-and-click game retelling several previous storylines from the film series, debuting an early access mode in July 2015 and releasing a full version of the game in November later that year. The game, after being universally panned for its uninspired content, was removed from the online mobile stores in December 2016 and Glu Mobile pulled the plug on the title.

Fanmade remakes
With the popularity laid by GoldenEye 007 in 1997 on the Nintendo 64, fans of the video game have made many attempts to remake or recreate the title with updated makeovers on current engines over time. But, only one project succeeded. Entitled GoldenEye: Source, the game entered development in 2005 and officially saw its international release in 2010, five years after being in beta mode hosted by the Source engine. It is a total conversion mod based on the multiplayer mode from the aforementioned title.

A different team initiated similar attempts in 2013 to port the multiplayer mode from Nightfire (2002) to the Source engine, hoping to release it on Steam under the title Nightfire: Source. The project, as of today, remains in development.

To commemorate the video game's 25th anniversary, another project based on GoldenEye 007 entered development in 2017 on Unreal Engine 4, with the aim of releasing it sometime in August 2022, based on the title's single-player campaign. However, in August 2020, the team received a cease and desist letter from Danjaq, forbidding the remake and stripping its use of any licensed asset related to the property, including James Bond and related characters. The project was reborn as Spies Don't Die – an original experience "inspired by 90s first-person shooters".

Appearance in other media
Downloadable content featuring a pack of cars used in the James Bond films is available in Forza Horizon 4, officially branded and licensed by Danjaq, LLC.

James Bond is parodied in Broforce as a playable character, Double Bro Seven, whose name is a pun on Bond's code number 007, with his appearance being based on either Sean Connery, George Lazenby or Pierce Brosnan. Just like the actual Bond, he wears a tuxedo and uses a pistol. Unlike other characters in the game, he has a variety of special skills, including a martini, needed for a trophy called "Shaken, not stirred", which is a joke on a famous Bond catchphrase.

title: James Bond in video games


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David Kessler (actor)

David Kessler (1860–1920) was a prominent actor in the first great era of Yiddish theater. As a star Yiddish dramatic performer in New York City, he was the first leading man in Yiddish theater to dispense with incidental music.

Early life
Born and raised in Chişinău (then part of Imperial Russia, now the capital of independent Moldova), as an adolescent he improvised chaotic amateur plays in the stable of his father's inn, using fragments of what he had seen in the performances of Broder singers. A medical student named Geller apparently wrote him a more structured play, Mechtze the Matchmaker, which he and his friends put on.

Early career
At 16, he tried out for Israel Rosenberg's theater troupe when they passed through town for a month. He was offered a position as an extra, but his father forbid him to go on the road. Three years later he joined a different small travelling troupe, and spent three years travelling through Europe with that troupe, first in Russia and then in Romania.

He moved to London in 1886, then immigrated to the United States in 1890, settling in New York City. In one of the first Yiddish-language productions of Shakespeare, he played the title role in Othello, opposite Jacob Adler's Iago. He was responsible for bringing Bertha Kalich to America.

American Yiddish Theatre
In New York Kessler resumed his career. In 1891 he acted under Jacob Adler in Jacob Gordin's first play "Siberia". Later he appeared in other Gordin plays, including "God, Man, and Devil". Others of his outstanding roles were in Sholem Asch's "God of Vengeance", David Pinski's "Yankel the Smith", and Leon Kobrin's "Yankel Boile".

He appeared at all the principal Lower East Side theatres in the Yiddish Theater District: the Thalia Theatre, the People's Theatre, and the Windsor Theatre.

In 1899 he was awarded the Thalia Theatre in a divorce settlement from his wife Jennie. Kessler's Thalia Theatre was located at 46-48 Bowery between Bayard and Canal Streets, across the street from the Windsor Theatre in Manhattan. He was listed as being the Lessee and Manager; Sigmund Mogulesko is the Regisseur and B. Young is the theatre manager.

In 1913 he established the David Kessler Theater, which ranked equally with Adler's and Boris Thomashefsky's theaters, and produced many plays by the leading Yiddish writers.

In 1918 he starred in 'Mish Mash' with Nellie Casman at Edelstein's People's Theater.

The New York Times called him, "One of the leading Yiddish actors in the United States . . ."

He was the manager of Kessler's Second Avenue Theatre.

His acting roles were many and varied.

He was married to Rachel (née Wilner) Kessler. She owned the "Wilner Full Dress Parlor" on the Lower East Side.

Death
He became ill while on stage at the Lyric Theatre in Brooklyn, New York during his performance of Jacob Gordin's dramatization of Tolstoy's "The Kreutzer Sonata". He died on May 14, 1920, in Beth Israel Hospital from complications following an operation. He is buried in Washington Cemetery in Brooklyn, New York along with his wife Rachel Kessler.

title: David Kessler (actor)


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Machine Wars

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Mackensen (talk) 00:59, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Machine Wars
A game review. RickK 06:31, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Delete. Trilobite (Talk) 14:33, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, game review/ad. Wyss 20:07, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete One of the first setbacks of this article was to actually locate notable information. Due to its promomotional tone, I vote to limit its use on Wikipedia. Zzyzx11 01:33, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Blah, blah, blah. {Flush}. Get a website. -- Serge Dupouy 11:06, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


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Peter Koppes

Peter Koppes (born 21 November 1955) is an Australian guitarist, best known as a founding and almost-continuous member of the independent rock band The Church. He is a multi-instrumentalist, also playing mandolin, drums, piano, and harmonica. He has also released various solo albums and various recordings with his group The Well (1989-1995). Koppes lives on the Australian Central Coast in NSW but sometimes spends time on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland where he sometimes produces albums and has previously conducted seasonal 'song writing' and 'performance for demo recording' short courses at Nambour TAFE, as well as offering private tuition in guitar, bass, drums and song writing. His daughters are Tatiana 'O' Koppes and Neige Koppes who had their own band, Rain Party (formerly they played with The Kicks aka Bright Red) but now have independent solo careers.

Sometimes incorrectly thought to be of Greek ancestry, Koppes actually has a mixed European ancestry: "My father's ancestry is Dutch, and there's southern French and Portuguese possibly. And my mother's ancestry is northern German but she says there's a Danish ancestor. The problem is she's got brown eyes and my grandmother had brown eyes and that's just not a Teutonic thing . Once she said we might have Gypsy blood...I've come to think I've got that spirit."

Early years
Koppes spent his teenage years in Canberra in the 1970s. In the early 1970s Canberra was in the midst of an upswing in the wake of Gough Whitlam's election. "I found Canberra an interesting place," Koppes remembers. "As I grew up I met some of the most interesting people. Canberra's got some pretty interesting attributes – it's got the highest rate of occultism, and the highest rate of adultery. It's a quiet place, but with a seedy underbelly. I definitely enjoyed the perspective I got while I was there – it gave me a blank canvass from which to work."

Whilst growing up in Canberra in a musical family the sounds of the Hammond organ originally captivated him, and so began his journey as a musician. "I started playing drums with an interest in The Shadows, and then Jimi Hendrix's Mitch Mitchell really inspired me with his jazz style. I think Santana had the same effect and the guitar playing seeped into me as well, although, musically I think of Pink Floyd as my template for a band". Peter was 12 when he became the drummer at school in a rock band called Bacchus Marsh. He then learned guitar from the members of this early group. Later, with another band called Timelord he played guitar, rehearsing in a local church hall. Steve Kilbey, who would later become his colleague in The Church, had a glam rock band called Beyond Beavers that would play there too. An invitation came in 1974 to replace one of the two drummers with Steve's band after they witnessed a drum solo he played on his drummer's kit.

Peter joined, but the singer left and they became Precious Little, with Steve on vocals.

Soon after, he reverted to guitarist as they transmuted into Baby Grande, with the addition of guitarist Dave Scotland and friend Joe Lee on bass. This two and a half year collaboration eventuated in some recordings, but he left to go to college studying electronics and engineering.

After 12 months he decided to sell up and go to England/Europe for a year with a guitar, whence he began writing folk songs. Significant time was spent in Stockholm, Berlin, and London as well as on a tug boat on the waterways of Holland. An Eastern musical influence that appeared on his 1992 album Water-Rites may have been as a result of 2 weeks spent in Morocco.

The Church
On his return in March 1980, Koppes came to Sydney and formed a three-piece band, Limazine, in Sydney with Nick Ward (AKA Nigel Murray) on drums, and began performing. It was not long before Koppes again teamed up to play music with Steve Kilbey who had recently moved there too. Following an invitation to play a support from a manager/promoter friend, they formed The Church. Supposedly, the name was chosen as it was unclaimed, but later allusions to spiritual interests by Kilbey hint that it was less coincidental, and it has been stated in Robert Dean Lurie's book on Steve Kilbey that the name comes from a line in the David Bowie song "Moonage Daydream": 'The Church of Man, love, Is such a holy place to be'. At this time, Marty Willson-Piper (originally from Liverpool, United Kingdom) arrived in Australia. He attended a show with a friend of Koppes and was asked to join the band because he could play guitar, looked like he belonged in the band, and the music needed another player to develop it further. Initially, only Koppes was a fully proficient musician, Kilbey was an erratic bass guitarist and Willson-Piper was searching for his guitar style. Included in the original Church lineup was ex-Limazine drummer Nick Ward, who had been a school colleague of Steve's. Together they arranged and completed Kilbey's song ideas, and made a demo tape utilising studio time at a friend's 4 Track studio to record backing tracks that would later be overdubbed at home using Steve and Nick's recorders.

Willson-Piper contributed to the demo, and with Koppes spent a week arranging his parts for some live shows. At the same time Koppes had garnered interest from publisher Chris Gilbey, of The Beatles' publishing company Northern Songs who then witnessed the first and only rehearsal with Willson-Piper before the gigs, however he missed the first show and the second was cancelled due to the band not wanting to risk being unable to pay for the PA and lights. Koppes then announced to Chris that the band couldn't continue and was disbanding. Gilbey said he would sign the band anyway, paying them a stipend, putting them in a rehearsal studio, recording an album. Gilbey found them an agent, leading to a record release with EMI.

The Church achieved early chart success in Australia with songs such as 'The Unguarded Moment' and 'Almost With You' that were also released internationally. The band also gained recognition for its distinctive jangling harmony guitar style which was originally instigated by Koppes and sometimes mistakenly attributed solely to 12 string electric guitar. Soon after recording the second album The Blurred Crusade however, Koppes became disenchanted with several non-musical aspects of the band and intended to depart. He was convinced to return to participate in an Australian tour to promote the album which was then followed by a US visit with Kilbey to meet Capitol Records who were interested in signing the band. Thereafter Koppes continued with The Church to tour internationally, recording several more albums, though he recommenced writing and recording his own songs. His song 'As You Will' was included as a B/side and extra CD track for the band's Heyday album and some of the demos were released in 1987 as an EP called 'When Reason Forbids - A Requiem' and the album 'Manchild And Myth' on an independent Australian label, Session Records. Later Rykodisc would combine them for release in the USA where the record attracted favourable notice in Billboard magazine's 'Recommended' section. In 1988, The Church had strong chart success in the US and Australia with 'Under The Milky Way' and its corresponding album Starfish (album) which included a song written earlier by Koppes called 'A New Season". Pressures and extended absences may have brought about the split in Koppes's marriage, a topic which features in some songs on his second album 'From The Well' recorded and released soon after. At the time, Steve also invited Koppes to write and record some songs for his double solo album Remindlessness and he contributed "Danielle" and "Soul Sample".

The Church then recorded Gold Afternoon Fix, which featured Koppes's song "Transient". This soon became a fan favourite and a much loved inclusion in their live set. This was followed by the album 'Priest=Aura'. Koppes had at that stage been a continuous (as well as founding) member of The Church, except for the four-year period 1992–1996. Due to mounting frustrations with artistic constraints on his input, Peter again felt disconnected from the band. Koppes' decision to leave The Church reflected two main factors; the band earned zero dollars for the two-week tour of Australia after all expenses had been paid, and secondly, he continued to feel shut out of the creative process - a long-standing complaint that stretched back at least as far as the Seance (album) days, if not further. After recording the Priest=Aura album with the band, Koppes departed, leaving Steve Kilbey and Marty Willson-Piper the only remaining members. Temporary drummer Jay Dee Daugherty (Patti Smith Group) played with the lineup for a while. Kilbey and Willson-Piper recorded Sometime Anywhere as The Church even though they were at that time effectively a duo.

Koppes pursued his interest in his solo band The Well with ex-Flowers/Icehouse keyboardist Anthony Smith, and bassist Jim Leone of the Celibate Rifles. This band also included recently removed drummer of The Church, Richard Ploog, who had earlier invited Koppes to record and perform with Celibate Rifles' Damien Lovelock's solo project The Wigmen. They also performed some of Koppes's songs from his first album when they played live.

Solo albums, The Well, collaborations with Margot Smith
As well as his contributions to The Church, Koppes has also released several solo albums, and albums with his group The Well (1989-1995), which largely occupied his time on hiatus from The Church. The Well featured former Church drummer Richard Ploog on drums, Anthony Smith (inaugural keyboardist for Flowers/Icehouse) and Jim Leone of The Celibate Rifles on bass. The Well played live and recorded songs that were released as an EP called Iridescence and later the fan favourite solo album Water Rites. There was still contact with Steve Kilbey, who asked Koppes to play guitar on some songs for albums he was producing, Australian artists Margot Smith's Adored and Lifetime, Stephen Cummings' Everything Breaks Your Heart, and Canadian Mae Moore's Full Circle.

Koppes collaborated on songwriting with singer Margot Smith, and played in her live band. (Steve Kilbey and Tim Powles also co-wrote, played and/or produced some of Smith's material on her first two albums Sleeping with the Lions (1993) and Taste (1998). Smith died in 2011; her third album Inhumaninane was released posthumously.

The Church: Back in the Fold
Koppes returned to The Church as a guest player on the album Magician Among the Spirits in 1996. In 1997 Koppes participated in what would become a new incarnation of the Church - under the title of The Refo:mation, Koppes, Kilbey and new drummer Powles (who had debuted on Sometime Anywhere) recorded the album Pharmakoi/Distance-Crunching Honchos with Echo Units.

This reunification of sorts led to a suggestion that The Church reform for a tour to raise interest and funds for recording another album. This it did, producing Hologram of Baal released in 1998, marking Koppes' formal return to the Church fold. During this same period Koppes's Immersion Music record label was set up in partnership with mentor Sebastian Chase of MGM Distribution, to represent his previous solo catalogue and new solo release 'Love Era/Irony'. Included, was an album by Margot Smith called 'Taste' which featured Peter, Steve Kilbey and Tim Powles. The Church, reinvigorated, has since released many more lauded albums including the A Box Of Birds covers album, and After Everything Now This. On the Parallel Universe album, Peter sang the psychedelic 'Reward', on Forget Yourself the sublime 'Appalatia', on Uninvited, Like the Clouds he sings the epic 'Never Before', and on Untitled #23 vinyl edition, the very memorable 'LLC ' (an anagram for Little Love Central).

In 2002, Koppes released his 5th solo album 'Simple Intent'. He was involved in various stints including co-writing and recording the song "Moon Over Water" with Sydneysider New Folk artist David Lane in 2003, and as session guitarist on various tracks of Australian Hip Hop artist Figg Kidd's 2003 major label album, 'What Is Figg Kidd?'.

Since relocation to the Sunshine Coast in Queensland Australia in 2004, Koppes has developed a songwriting relationship with fellow local/international singer/songwriter Michelle Bradford-Jones. They produced soundtrack material and anthem song 'Journey of Friends ' for a fundraising cancer benefit documentary commemorating the Smiling For Smiddy Foundation.

2019 and after: Work since leaving the Church
Not announced officially until mid 2020 was Koppes' departure again from The Church in mid-2019, following cancellation of the rest of the year's touring due to Tim Powles' severe foot injury sustained on the last date of that USA tour.

Since then he has produced and played on songs by emerging young local female singer songwriter Mayah, whose 2019 debut single 'Endless Mistakes' achieved almost 500,000 streams within a year, and a second single 'Butterflies (The Rush Inside)', released in early 2020, achieved 40,000 streams in six months. Live streams of three performances were made together during the CoronaVirus-19 pandemic.

In July 2020, an EP released by Emma Tomlinson, also a Sunshine Coast singer-songwriter, featured Koppes on finger-style nylon guitar and Ebow electric guitar, for the highlight track 'Silver Lightning'. They have also appeared live together on occasions, such as Emma's sold-out show for Noosa Alive Festival in 2019.

In September 2020 following two singles and an EP, Koppes' recording ensemble Syncretism, with guitarist Dave Scotland released the 'Lone Drifters?' album. Scotland had been a fellow member of Baby Grande, the Canberra glam rock band founded in the 1970s with Steve Kilbey later of The Church. Dave Scotland had remained largely unknown except as a very celebrated guitarist by those who have heard his extraordinary style of playing, left-handed on a right-handed guitar. The modern-sounding album is a co-production of Scotland's songs and Koppes' lyrics, rich with guitars and effects.

In August 2022 an album of 56 short piano instrumentals with orchestral effects was released exemplifying revolutionary music theory relating to Modes and Scales associated with Augmented Chords and Diminished Chords as well as the previously unidentified seven note scale/mode for the Dominant7#9 chord also known as unofficially as the Hendrix Chord.

Discography

 * 1987 When Reason Forbids: A Requiem (EP, Session Records & Rykodisc). Tracks: 'When Reason Forbids'; 'At the Castle';'Air'. Note: All three tracks are included on the Rykodisc release (only) of the album Manchild and Myth.
 * 1988 Manchild and Myth (Session Records (Australia) & Rykodisc (USA)). Tracks: 'Take a Vow'; 'These Three things'; 'The Wise and the Wicked'; 'What's the Matter'; 'Quest'; 'Comes As No Surprise'; 'Opus'; 'Sahara'; 'The Colosseum'; 'A Drink from the Cup';'Into the Bright Light'; 'Let You Walk Away'; Our Love'; 'When Reason Forbids'; 'At the Castle'; 'Air'. Last three tracks only appear on the Rykdodisc release of this album.
 * 1989 From the Well (Vinyl LP and CD; TVT Records(Australia); CD - EMI Records)Tracks: In the Wake; Her Mark; Only Wait; Horses in the Sand; Lost Peace, The; Pyramid Building (She's Leaving); I Wonder; Lullaby; Desert Flower Bride; Nursery Fugue; Testing 3. 2. 1.; Aural Garden; Anthem
 * 1991 Iridescence EP (credited to Peter Koppes and The Well)(Phantom Records)Tracks: 'Peak to Peak'; 'Her Mark'; 'The Destroyer'. Note: 'Her Mark' appeared previously on the album From the Well.
 * 1995 Water Rites (credited to Peter Koppes and The Well)(World Water label)
 * 1998 Love Era/Irony (Immersion Records/Phantom Records (Australia)CD)
 * 2002 Simple Intent (MGM Records); release on Immersion Records 2006.
 * 2007 Misty Heights and Cloudy Memories 1987-2002 (2 CD compilation, Immersion Records)(includes 2 previously unreleased tracks)
 * DISC 1: 1. Met Her Today 2. Naked Soul 3. Blame 4. Leaving 5. Thank You 6. Celebration 7. Sound 8. Two in a Million 9. Oblivion & Beyond 10. Make a Move 11. Grasshrooms 12. Caravan 13. Arabia 14. Sublimination 15. House Afire 16. Spirit March 17. On Wings of Love
 * DISC 2: 1. Peak to Peak 2. Her Mark 3. Destroyer 4. I Wonder 5. Lost Peace 6. Horses in the Sand 7. Desert Flower Bride 8. Testing 3.2.1. 9. Take a Vow 10. These Three Things 11. Comes as No Surprise 12. Drink from the Cup 13. Our Love 14. When Reason Forbids 15. Waiting 16. Soliloquy
 * 2020 Lone Drifters? (credited to Syncretism - digital download album with booklet)(Immersion Records)
 * 2022 Music Evolution Therapy (Immersion Records/MGM Distribution 2022) 56 short instrumental piano tracks for music theory reference

title: Peter Koppes


text:
User:Ozzyprv

Ozzy or Ozzyprv. I am Venezuelan born Canadian living in Alberta, Canada.

title: User:Ozzyprv


text:
Talk:Battle of Carrhae

First of the Roman/Parthian battles?
This claim is wrong. In the pointing article it says: "Battles between the Parthian Empire and the Roman Republic began in 92 BC" But this battle is in 53 BC...--Leonardo Da Vinci (talk) 10:25, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Inaccuracies
This section bothers me. "For several centuries previous to this battle - in fact, ever since winning the Second Punic War - the Romans had seemed, to themselves as to others, unstoppable. They had defeated, and eventually conquered and absorbed, every[citation needed] country which they encountered. At least in the eastward direction, this centuries-long march of conquest came to an end with the Battle of Carrhae; though the Romans would continue fighting with Parthia and later with its Sassanid succesor for hundreds of years, they would never either aim at or achieve their eastern rival's conquest and subjugation."

First of all, this is false. The Romans had suffered numerous setbacks in Iberia, plus they had failed to conquer Britain at this point. More importantly, Trajan had desired and aimed at the subjugation of Persia, but stopped after conquering Mesopotamia due to advancing age. I'm not sure that a "Roman invincibility myth" existed at all- the closest thing I can find at this time period is the Gauls believing Caesar was unbeatable, and even that was shattered after Gergovia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caius Magnus (talk • contribs) 14:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

 * thanks for clarifying - should show logisitics was not a Roman expertise  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.224.34 (talk) 17:13, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Rewriting the Battle section
The Battle section was poorly written and inaccurate in many ways, and used inferior sources. I completely rewrote it, based mainly on Plutarch and Cassius Dio. I will check it for grammar and add citations soon.

Incorrect use of the lorica segmenta
The Romans at this time did not use lorica segmenta armor. Iron band armor only became widespread during the 2nd century CE, especially during Trajan's time period. The standard armor for heavy infantry-Roman legionaries would have been specialized chainmail. I have corrected the link to lead to the lorica hamata page.

Intranetusa 00:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The style of the article is ridiculously un-encyclopedia-like: "but our story begins not further to the East, but in Rome!" 128.237.241.229 06:34, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Possible copyright infringement
The text of this article (in the 06:33, 16 Feb 2005 version) looks a lot like the description of the battle in the "Rome: Total War" computer game. I only own the Spanish version of the game, so I can't be sure that the text is copied verbatim, but the structure is very similar, so at the very least they share the same origin.

That would also explain the "un-encyclopedia-like" style.

Maybe someone can confirm with an English version of the game?

In any case, I find the older, shorter version of the article (up to and including 23:54, 21 Jan 2005) much better written. 80.58.1.111 11:26, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The game mentions the Parthians killing Crassus by pouring molten gold down his throat - the article doesn't. Kazak

 * I think they made that up for the game. Plutarch says

 * a Parthian, named Pomaxathres, killed Crassus. Some say that it was not Pomaxathres, but another, who killed Crassus, and that Pomaxathres cut off the head and right hand when Crassus was lying on the ground.... Surena sent the head and hand of Crassus to Hyrodes in Armenia; and, causing a report to be carried by messengers to Seleukeia that he was bringing Crassus alive, he got ready a kind of ridiculous procession which, in mockery, he called a triumph. (Plutarch, Life of Crassus, XXXI–XXXII.)

 * while Dio Cassius says:

 * Crassus fell among the rest, whether he was slain by one of his own men to prevent his capture alive, or whether by the enemy because he was wounded anyway. This was his end. And the Parthians, as some say, poured gold into his mouth in mockery; for though a man of great wealth he was so eager for money as to pity those who could not support an enrolled legion from their own means, regarding them as poor men. (Dio Cassius, Roman History, book 40).

 * so it's pretty clear that Crassus was killed in the battle and if gold was poured into his mouth it was done after his death. Gdr 00:49, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

 * There is a medieval map (the Vercelli Map) that, in a caption, says "here the Parthians fed to Crassus a drink of molten gold", so the execution by molten gold is a fact. I doubt the game would have any reason to make that up in either case. Cossack 22:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

 * How is that fact? That sentence could easily refer to Crassus's corpse, it does not mention whether he was alive or dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.99.138.2 (talk) 13:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

 * killing him by pouring molten gold down his throat is certainly a more exciting story, whihc is why it's often repeated. doesn't make it true. for me it's unlikely, if he was so rich and captured alive why not ransom him for a lot of money? and few Roman nobles were ever captured alive by their enemies. 217.7.209.108 08:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible copyright infringement, take two
The last edit which is my edit is 100% copyrighted, with the written permission.So stop blaming for copyright.E-mail me for more details. Amir85 11:39, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We will not e-mail you. That is not how Wikipedia works. In general, it's highly irregular to post large sections of copyrighted text verbatim, so there's no strong convention to follow, but you have to openly and unambiguously specify the precise permission you've been given. I would suggest that you put a notice at the bottom along the following lines:

 * This article incorporates material from [X], a copyrighted work. Amir85 asserts that he has been given written permission by the copyright holder(s) to use this work verbatim on Wikipedia.  He has posted the precise details of the permission on this article's talk page.

Then you post the exact e-mail exchange here, so everyone can view it. It's important that this e-mail exchange make it clear that the text will be edited—many copyright holders are fine with reasonable-sized direct quotations as long as they're kept intact, but deny permission for the text to be modified.

For the time being, since this is such an extraordinary case, I will err on the side of caution and keep the unquestionably acceptable text from before your edit. At such time as you provide an exact, dated e-mail exchange granting Wikipedia permission to incorporate the text verbatim but with any changes anyone may make, I will cease to revert your editions. —Simetrical (talk) 19:57, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Testudo
There is no mention whatsoever in the records of the battle of Carrhae of legionaries assuming the testudo formation.

WILL PEOPLE STOP USING COMPUTER GAME MANUALS AS REFERENCE MATERIAL!

Furthermore, shields pinnend to soldiers' arms and hands are likely to be rare incidents highlighted by ancient authors for dramatic effect.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tortoise_formation"

 * "For if [the legionaries] decided to lock shields for the purpose of avoiding the arrows by the closeness of their array, the [cataphracts] were upon them with a rush, striking down some, and at least scattering the others; and if they extended their ranks to avoid this, they would be struck with the arrows." - Cassius Dio Twelvetoner (talk) 19:22, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Anti-Roman Bias
I wrote the original article (although my IP address is different at this point) and I now realize that I was being a little too biased against the Romans (i.e. excessively belittling them). I guess this was the fault of the sources I used (easy found by googling "Battle of Carrhae"), which were inherently Pro-Parthian/Anti-Roman. I welcome anyone to fix this bias. - Original Author

Wow, what pride whether its anti Roman or not, bottom line the romans get pounded here, i don't understand why people don't accept it, I'm Roman I do.The same thing with the greeks on wikipedia. Whta if we were Egypt, man invaded every other year.

Yes but you are quite clearly not an historian of any calibre whatsoever. Plus I think the term used nowadays is Italian.

Corrections
I corrected some of the rough grammar in the "Battle" section text. The article (as many articles on Wikipedia do) probably needs more sources or references listed at the bottom, especially printed sources (not game manuals), since they are often more reliable than Internet references. Cla68 16:40, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed this sentence "Therefore, a strong truth lies in the myth: the faults of the Roman army exposed at Carrhae (such as its vulnerability to cavalry on open ground) were never fixed, and even recurred, as in the much later catastrophe at Adrianople against Gothic cavalry." This is a popular view on the battle of Adrianople but the battle was lost due to the Roman army being halfdeployed on the opening of the battle, not the cavalry. The Gothic cavalry was only lightly equipped and armored, very unlike Parthian cataphracts. Their charge cut the Roman army in pieces as they were out of formation. The rest of the battle turnt into vicious infantry fights, supposedly the Goths using column tactics to further take the Roman lines apart. The Gothic cavalry was only essential in finalizing the victory by hunting down the routers. The late imperial army of Rome was actually quite adept and varied to face all the range of threats along the long imperial border. This also includes the introduction of increasingly heavy shock cavalry quite like Parthian cataphracts. Mangalores 05-03-2007

The testedo
You are right that the romans didnt use testeudo but crassus did in fact put his men in a square formation which in the end lead to the defeat of the romans because they were so packed together that the parthians could hit them without aiming. Though I believe the Romans getting arrows pinned to their hands is true due to the fact that many eastern armies used a composite bow which could pierce the legion scutum shield and Hamata Segemta armor with ease.(you can correct me at the battle if they used Hamata Semta or Lorica Segemta) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.201.78.56 (talk) 03:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

"Legacy" section and the role of diplomacy
Were the legionary eagles really returned as the result of diplomacy, without military confrontations? Quite an achievement, and I suppose Augustus was capable of it. I'm skeptical about the claim only because Antony's military attempt (which I've now added) had been omitted. Could we bolster this interesting point with a citation? Cynwolfe (talk) 16:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

"screening"
In the section on the battle, it's said that the cavalry led by Publius Crassus were screening as an advance force when they were surrounded by the Parthians. I don't think this is correct, and the description of the battle seems rather fuzzy overall. Here are three secondary sources that I found helpful: I'm sure there are others. A major primary source for the Battle of Carrhae is Plutarch's Life of Crassus, starting around section 17 here. I think a closer look might be beneficial to the article. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Martin Sicker,  The Pre-Islamic Middle East (Greenwood Publishing Group, 2000), pp. 149–151 online (from a strategic point of view);
 * A.D.H. Bivar, "The Political History of Iran under the Arsacids," in The Cambridge History of Iran (Cambridge University Press, 1983) vol. 3, pp. 48–56 limited preview online (with lots of background before getting to the actual battle);
 * Philip Sidnell, "Warhorse: Cavalry in Ancient Warfare" (Continuum, 2006), pp. 237–242 online (from the cavalry's POV).

No sources cited in section on the actual battle
The section that attempts to describe the battle appears to have been written via séance, as we are told what Crassus was thinking and feeling. These may be someone's interpretations of his actions; but they are presented as fact. The section currently reads like a History Channel script, straining for effect. There's no awareness that the ancient sources may be biased or self-contradictory; information is treated as transparent on its face, as if military or other historians have no disagreements on the interpretation of this material. Cynwolfe (talk) 22:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Buildup to war
The fact that Crassus had a force of "seven legions" is undeniable.(based on all references) But since different sources consider different number of legionaries (heavy infantry) in each legion, therefore total number of his heavy infantry varies: 30000, 24500-28000 , 35000 , 36000 down to 30000 ,36000 , 36000. If you search more, you will find more different numbers. In wikipedia each typical legion in the time of Crassus is considered to be 5120 men. So it will be 35840 men. *** in FACT ***  (contact)  05:33, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

The part which is probably not valid: "It was the first of many battles between the Roman and Persian empires," Parthian empire wasn't Persian empire - most likely it had nothing to do with Persians. Parthians were rather Scythians (Huns??). The way they won the battle (luring the enemy pretending retreat and when they follow releasing rain of arrows onto them) is typical Scythian/Hun/Hungarian way of fighting. Not mentioning the 'composite' bows which also called 'Scythian' bow well-known used by the two other(?) above mentioned nations. It could be said that different nations/cultures could use that kind of instrument, still, I don't know of such thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.17.74 (talk) 03:50, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but you are wrong. Parthians were North Persians. They spoke Persian, were Zoroastrians (The native religion of Persians) and considered themselfs as the succesors of the Aechamids. Later after they conquered the Seleucids they adopted greek and made it a "Lingua Franca".

You are aware that Scythians were not one people? They were many partly-nomadic and full-nomadic people living from the regions of Modern day Turkmenistan to Ukraine. They did not even have one language...

And Huns came from thre regions of central Asia at the time of 3rd and 4th century AD. PArthains were in Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan as early as 200 B.C. --159.81.76.102 (talk) 09:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Parthians = Persians??
The part which is probably not valid: "It was the first of many battles between the Roman and Persian empires," Parthian empire wasn't Persian empire - most likely it had nothing to do with Persians. Parthians were rather Scythians (Huns??). The way they won the battle (luring the enemy pretending retreat and when they follow releasing rain of arrows onto them) is typical Scythian/Hun/Hungarian way of fighting. Not mentioning the 'composite' bows which also called 'Scythian' bow well-known used by the two other(?) above mentioned nations. It could be said that different nations/cultures could use that kind of instrument, still, I don't know of such thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hetseven (talk • contribs) 04:10, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Your wrong. Parthians where Persians... They spoke the same language, had same religion (Zoroastrianism), originated from the same place and their rulers claimed to be succeors of the Aechamids.

Persia has had many empires. The first one is called Aechamid Empire. The second one is called Parthian Empire. The third one was Sassanid empire. Then the Arabs came and conquered the Sassanids in the 7-8th century.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsaces (talk • contribs) 14:22, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Gaaah! Ok, Parthians, Medes, and Persians are all IRANIANS. They are not exactly the same but closely related and all spoke Persian dialects.HammerFilmFan (talk) 01:09, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Let me clear this up, Parthians, Persians, Medes, Scythians and many other such ethnic groups of that time were all ancient Iranian peoples. Just like how there are many Iranian peoples, of which many still live in their homeland Iran, groups like the Kurds, Azeris, Persians, Balochis, Tajiks and many others which are descended from the ancient Iranian peoples. I would also like to clear up the common misconception that is the naming of Achaemenid Empire which many people know as the First Persian Empire, there was no such thing because firstly Cyrus the Great which was a half-Median and half-Persian king and secondly his mission, which succeeded, was to unite and unify all the Iranian peoples, he wasn't a Persian ethnic nationalist with his movement starting and the capital of his empire being centered in the "Fars" (Persian in Farsi) region of Iran. BTW, the Median Empire was the first Iranian Empire, the Achaemenid Empire was second, Parthians third, Sassanids fourth and literally a dozen Iranian empires ruled Iran between the period of the Arab Invasion 638 AD and the rise of the Safavids in 1501 BC.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Migboy123 (talk • contribs) 08:34, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Agreed, Arsacid Parthians, who ruled oover Iran as the Arsacid Empire for about 500 years were of Dahae extraction, and more precisely of Parni extraction (the Parni were an Eastern Iranian people). Although not Persian, these Iranian peoples were closely related. Best regards. ---Wikaviani  (talk) (contribs)  12:16, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Picture?
I think a picture would be very deserved for this article. If anyone could manage to upload a good one, feel free to do so. :-) - LouisAragon (talk) 00:09, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Roman Republic
I question the use of the term republic in this context. At this point Rome was clearly an empire, regardless of what its internal political configuration or self-description was, and had been so since the defeat of Carthage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.242.248.88 (talk) 22:34, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

You are certainly correct that the Roman Republic was an empire : However, "empire" is not a term for a polity (form of government) but rather characterizes, for a grouping of several territories and peoples, that there exists a singular authority vs any other arrangement without a singular authority (i.e. a confederacy of sovereign states). In the article, Roman Republic is a proper noun phrase of the name of an era of classical Roman civilization, not as a dictionary term. And the Roman Republic's form of government was republican, though with very narrow and bizarre definitions of citizenship compared to today. Phdye (talk) 21:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority
 * Applicable to the Roman Republic
 * especially : one having an emperor as chief of state
 * Not applicable to the Roman Republic

Pronunciation
How do you pronounce "Carrhae"? I can't find anything online. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.198.120.221 (talk) 21:33, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Lede
"His death is sometimes associated with the end of the First Triumvirate"

Sounds extremely weaslely. His death would be almost synonymous with the end of the Triumvirate, the Triumvirate ended by definition. Yeah, I get it that tensions existed anyway, but that doesn't fix this sentence.-192.166.53.198 (talk) 07:10, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

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Parthian statue picture
For years now, some people have been trying to force this picture of a Parthian statue (the "Shami statue", Statue, National Museum of Iran 2401) on this article, in the belief that it can somehow be connected to the Parthian general of Carrhae, Surena.

We've been through this half a dozen of times in various talkpage discussions: There is apparently no evidence at all who this statue is meant to depict, and no reliable source has ever been found that even as much as hints to the possibility that it might be Surena. We have an article about this statue, citing a decent number of reliable sources describing it, (among them this fairly decent online article in Encyclopedia Iranica, normally a decent source on such matters), and none of them even mentions the name. The alleged connection between the statue and this person appears to be the product of amateur speculation on the web.

The most recent version of this canard, edit-warred back into the page by, is doubly nonsensical: first, it tries to hedge the speculative WP:OR identification through the classic weasel wording of "(attributed) by some"; second, it misuses the term "attributed" (in English, when you say about a work of art that it is "attributed" to somebody, you mean the artist who made it, not the person it depicts).

The arguments given by PersianFire in their edit summaries are equally egregious: ''There is no need of a source to confirm whether it is meant to depict Surena. It is a relevant pic depicting a Parthian nobleman - how Surena w/h looked like. Same as statue of Leonidas I, no source stating it's him, however it's still a rep of a hoplite.'' – First, yes, there is a need of a source; since the caption expresses a claim of fact, that claim needs to be sourced, period. Second, the comparison with Leonidas is bogus, if it is meant to allude to this well-known statue. While it is true that the ascription is not certain in the case of this statue, the crucial difference to the present case is: it is sourced. We have an article about this statue too, and you can follow the citation showing that there is indeed a serious scholarly debate, where authors have explicitly discussed the likely hypothesis that the statue was meant to represent Leonidas (even though it's not universally considered certain).

I'm going to remove the picture again some time tomorrow, if reliable sources are not brought forward for it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:20, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Source for numerical superiority Romans?
It is stated that the Romans were superior numerically, but what is the source for that statement? We probably do know how much Romans were involved (number of legions), but what is the source for the numbers on the Parthian side? If it's Plutarch, then what was his source? He barely ever made it out of Greece during his life, and we're pretty sure he never set foot in Parthia. —85.147.184.152 (talk • contribs) 15:53, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

10,000 soldiers and slaves
The source for the size and make up of the Parthian forces is Plutarch, who is a (the) main source for the battle. There's no reason to change this without very reliable sources to back it up. A good reference to Plutarch in a modern work wouldn't hurt though.Pipsally (talk) 15:30, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

the liquian myth is double in this article, with different meanings. it is discarded anyway, see www.nature.com/articles/jhg200782  second, isnt there any archeological finding to prove the wole war story, which we only know of from roman sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.69.75.181 (talk) 11:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Osroene chieftain Ariamnes
The Wikipedia article on Abgar II says that he was one who betrayed the Romans, not "Osroene chieftain Ariamnes" as stated in the article. Should this be resolved or even discussed? Droopyfeathers (talk) 22:47, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battle of Carrhae