text:
User talk:Kizzle/secret

I'm discussing this here now, because, well it's the discussion page for it.

I'm a big fan of the theory that vote suppression made a bigger difference in ohio than vote machine fraud. and i think all aspects should be in there. take them through the entire process and show how every single attack point was hit, "bumper to bumper", and make it clear that this quite outside the norm and quite outside the tolerable. I just know people'll make the argument "but that happens all the time." Really? Show me. Uhhh... It's common sense. Oh, it's your intuition, huh? if your intuition is so reliable why don't you go use it to gamble all of your money away. Meanwhile, I'll stick to the facts. It didn't happen last election, or the election before that, or... (in ohio). now let's look at the other states...

hmm... myth-breaking? we'd have to break some myths somehow, otherwise people will shut everything and cling to their "answers". we have to take the answers away, before we can get them to ask questions.

but ya, add it up, as it goes along, possibly. a fraud accumulator. Moss v. bush should be in there, and the congressional challenge. show the dems being professional and the repubs being assanine. no commentary neccessary.

public hearings, you could make a story section in real chronological order.

Make it obvious that the dems are looking at this close-up, while the repubs are standing far away, completely oblivious, denigrating the shit out of something they haven't the slightest clue about - mob-psychology largely led by tom delay. Kevin Baastalk 01:21, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

and do you have anyone else working on this? Kevin Baastalk

 * They need to be able to simulate it.  The brain works by simulation. (dreaming) if they can construct a working probability model in their head (a book for actuaries: "modeling and simulation"), they can "concieve" it.  hence narrative and people.  (humor works because it's a "social corrective")  i thought of this when i was thinking of the vote suppression, it might have to start pre-election.  i remember reading a lot of news reports in the new york times that pissed me off, but i never put it all together until after the election, when the shit hit the fan.  they were all about the ohio secretary of state, (here's something that would be funny: show all the lawsuits against blackwell!  -oh, the chicago tribune did a write up on him, might be helpfull.  one thing that caught me in the write up is that he opposed busing as a means to end segregation in the 60's (i guess he doesn't like white people)).  major point, if it helps any: to think is to simulate in one's head. (this is a kinda postmodernesque (baudrillaud?: simalcra and simulation) i thought of alan turing "we will have artificial intelligence, not because of advances in technology, but because what we mean by "intelligence" will change.  I also thought of how an analog, or even a continuous surface computer (a greater-than-zero-dimensional line of parrallel analog signals) would "compute", since "logic" and "analysis" are only meaningfull in discrete space.  And i realized that, therefore, i had to think of computation differently, and I realized that it was simulation.  and the brain works that way too.  so we need to find the right input codes to build a ship in a bottle, so to speak.  Sounds difficult, but we know exactly how the bottle works.  just think of how we function in our natural environment, and desing the film according to that. narrative (coherent chronology) and people are examples of this.   I don't know if this helps any, perhaps it's too abstract, but fwiw, i wanted to throw that way of looking at it at you. Kevin Baastalk 02:25, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

I added "a guide to voting in ohio, america", first draft. that's the method of organization and presentation that made it best come out of my head. (with a little satirical embelishment) Kevin Baastalk 04:17, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

Nice KB! Preferably, I'd like to start with a little background on voter suppression (very little bit on 2000 election, just enough to jog people's memory), then introduce the material a bit.... then I want to jump into what you've put down as a segway, that would be awesome to have an Ohio voter's guide, kinda like in F9/11 the transistion to the animated short as a segway....  thanks for contributing :)...  I'm going to spend the next few days on electronic voting machines, as that's what I'm passionate about... Try to develop the segway if you have time.  You don't have to follow the format that I'm using in terms of bullet points as questions, then answering them, but I'm going to bullet-point your short one-liners, so that later on when we add literal text to include, it looks easier on the eye to breakdown the information in writing the commentary.  Keep in mind KB, the bar we set for quality of sources is going to be higher then it would on Wikipedia, because every single fact and line will be mulled over by people, so we want to make it as rock-solid as possible. Try to add just a citation link to every bullet-point if you know one off the top of your head without the text so its just like (1), so that later on the other person can go research it and flesh out the section.

Thanks for helping out, this is going to be fun :) --kizzle 04:54, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * Working on the precinct squeeze section gave me an idea for presentation. Do it like for a schoolm just educating on what it's like to be in government, how precinct adjustment works, etc.  very pedagogical, no hint of making accusations, then jsut drly and matter of factly state something like "In 2004 Kenneth blackwell decreased the number of precincts where the population increased."...  (i was thinking "for example... oh, bad example...", but i think the matter of fact would work better, less derogatory; forced, more they realize it for themself.  the less we spoon-feed, the less pushing an agenda-we look.  we're just presenting facts.  let's just present them, no flavor.) Kevin Baastalk 05:43, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

 * KB, start adding these facts to the voter suppression issues, and use bullet-points to each indvidual fact or quoted passage so that we can use them as building blocks and reassemble them later into the commentary. Like I said, if you just put a bullet-point to a question and a link to a source, I'm more than willing to flesh out the details of the issue, I'm in one of those moods I get into once every while where I'm trying to soak in as much information as possible, so I'd love to research it myself, just show me where :) --kizzle 19:39, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

What's the objective?
The decisions about structure, focus, style, etc. would turn on the objective being sought. A dramatically compelling narrative might omit something that was mportant but doesn't play well on screen. An attempt at NPOV or some semblance thereof would give at least some attention to counterarguments, e.g. the explanations by Mitofsky and others about the exit poll discrepancies (young polltakers were more likely to elicit cooperation from young (pro-Kerry) voters, so the machine totals were accurate, it was the exit polls that were wrong, rather than vice versa). Or is the goal to produce an advocacy piece that seeks to persuade as many people as possible that the election was stolen? JamesMLane 12:31, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * This is somewhat in-between an advocacy piece and a NPOV documentary, here's what I want. This is an advocacy piece because I am presenting an argument in a personal sense, I do not want to use traditional style documentary of third-person storytelling, the *only* thing I want to take from F9/11 is his narrative style in that you know you're listening to a personality rather than some random voice.  I DO NOT however want to twist facts to make my side look good, and if some article effectively refutes something in here, then I want it in (provided that we in addition search for rebuttals on the rebuttal article).  Seriously, the main theme of this is, if you had 2 hours to tell someone what went wrong with the election and you could not lie, misrepresent facts, use dubious sources, and had to include counterarguments?  While I don't think I'm explaining it very well, I'm trying to write this as a philosophy paper, in that I want the premises to be as strong as possible, include counter-arguments, and simply present what I think is the truth, for better or worse.  But this piece will not conclude that the election was stolen, only that there were significant intentional detrimental actions by certain groups and organizations towards the integrity of the vote.  That's why i need your help JML, I want you to keep us honest by showing me the weak points of the argument (or any points that need to be mentioned as well). , and if Rex were back I'd almost want him to tell me where he would think I'm wrong.  Almost. ;) --kizzle 19:34, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

IMHO
IMHO, the screenplay construction space should be broken up into sub-articles, per section (one for voting machines, one for exit polls, one for voter suppression, one for blackwell, one for intro, etc.) and perhaps a cat made, as well, for nav? and/or a template box in the upper right for nav?

 * you mind if i break it up into sub-articles, and turn the main into an outline? Kevin Baastalk 20:13, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

 * I personally don't mind, as this is going to get very long. Don't bother filling in info on the summary, just make links to the pages so we can go directly to the point, and you can ditch the trial motif for now, just make voting machines, voter suppression, exit polls, ohio controversy.  Keep the intro maybe in the outline. --kizzle 20:29, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and a section for moss v. bush, and for conyers and congress, the hearings, and the electoral contest.

Structure - i'm not sure i like the criminal case idea - it's too innuenda/agenda-ish. i think if it just presents things as they are, matter-of-factly, so long as the audience gets the message that this is comprehensive, not just a few small "glitches" blown out of proportion (which i'm sure critics will be apt to think), it would work. We can't look like we're distorting anything, that's just ammunition for the critics. Perhaps we might want to think: What would John Conyers do? Kevin Baastalk 18:41, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

 * Yeah I'm not really feeling the trial theme anymore, I just wanted some sort of external structure to it other than simply moving from exit polls to voting machines to voter suppression, etc... more like a logical progression that the audience could anticipate. That can be decided later, for now, we can flesh out the details of each section.--kizzle 19:35, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

An idea: if possible, interview first-person; witnesses, arnebeck etc.
and ask them questions from both sides, even extreme ones, challenging them (but not too extreme; don't make it look like a forced ridicule) things like "That didn't really happen, did it?" and "Now tell me the truth, those are actors in the film, aren't they?" Or a simple statment "I don't believe you." or "X says you're a 'loony'. Are you a 'loony'?" Give the critics a chance to test their hypothesises, right from the source. Kevin Baastalk 19:48, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

 * There will be interviews, hopefully many, but that comes after the screenplay. Basically, we have to form an argument that is complete in itself, then if something happens with this we can use interviews to strengthen it.  In writing this rough-draft, however, lets make it self-sufficient on its own.  I would almost like to use placeholders for interviews, but determining what interviews would be available to us in the future is impossible to predict. --kizzle 20:00, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

Collaboration on information, assuming different knowledge areas
If it works, where you "don't know what [i'm] talking about", you could insert a question as an "issue", that the audience would ask, to be addressed in the film. that is, you thereby make a perfect test audience for those areas. Kevin Baastalk

And I'll work on filling them in, but if someone preempts me, I won't complain. Kevin Baastalk 20:20, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

I'm just going to start adding questions to my section of voter suppression, like I said I would actually like to pre-empt you on filling them in, just attach a link next to any of the questions I post and I'll dig through and answer them myself, I just don't always know where to look. --kizzle 20:25, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

bizarre
while researching, I found this on Sequoia Voting Machines offical website on the about section:

Nobody pretends that democracy is perfect or at all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

- Winston Churchill, November 11, 1947

Why the f*** would a voting company put that in? --kizzle 22:24, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

analysis: an arrogant person would say that - it basically implies that the masses are dumb and often do the wrong thing, but this is better than letting one ignoramis rule the others. ofcourse, the speaker believes, to a significant extent, that they can objectively say that the decisions of the democatrically elected leaders are lacking in quality - and the speaker would have to believe he knows better than said leaders to believe that he can say this objectively. The question is, then, is there a third type of government? rule by "smart people" (like the speaker)? Kevin Baastalk 22:38, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

don't get me wrong, though. i love winston churchill. (who, btw, was a temporary dictator, pretty much) i just would never use that quote. Kevin Baastalk

All I'm saying is, what the hell is a voting company doing putting in about how democracy isn't perfect. It's right after it describing its corporate parent.... just kinda out of place. --kizzle 23:30, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kizzle/secret


text:
Talk:La Bamba (song)

"La Bamba" means...
74.112.121.40 08:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC) says:

I read that La Bamba doesn't really have a translation, but after doing a google search, I've come across one that, in my opinion, comes close:

Note that "La Bamba" means "the hot chick," as in "bombshell." -DEQI (http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.php?id=4567) *It does not mean "hot chick". It's the name of the dance that is done to the song itself.

 * The meaning of the name of the alleged dance "la bamba" needs some interpretation of underlying meaning, as is often the case in folk songs. When you dance "la bamba", this implies you have "una pierna/cintura bamba", or "a loose leg/waist" (and it could go further into a naughtier interpretation, but let's leave it aside for lack of evidence). So "bailar la bamba" actually means "do the loose leg/waist dance". To do that dance, "necesitas una poca de gracia y otra cosita", meaning, "you need a bit of grace and something else" (hence the naughty interpretation). But it doesn't stop there: there's also a Spanish language pun involved, considering the verb "bambolear" (moving your waist in circles) also means to boast/brag. So, the person who dances la bamba can be understood as also bragging about not being a sailor, but the captain himself ("yo no soy marinero, soy capitán"). He's dancing la bamba and also doing "la bamba", get it? There you have the right spirit of the lyrics, Feel free to add to the article, if needed. - 187.20.71.73 (talk) 22:37, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Isn’t it una polka de gracia? Meaning a polka that’s good. Because if it was “un poco de gracia” no one would say “una poca” the correct way is “un poco” But if it’s a reference to “una poca— as in una polka, then the lyrics make sense. Thoughts? 71.230.169.77 (talk) 02:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @71.230.169.77 "una polka de gracia" could also mean "a free dance" perhaps. Oral histories, eh? 2A00:23C6:9026:E201:A56D:35B4:1610:A275 (talk) 08:11, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Para vs. For
OK, cunning linguists, I am well aware that the normal translation of "para" in this specific usage is "in order to" or "for the purpose of". Now just try to sing it that way in English. "For" may be a bit archaic as a synonym of "in order to", but it flows better. Wahkeenah 13:07, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but shouldn't it be argued that the purpose of this translation is not to show a reader how to sing the song in English, but rather give an accurate translation of the song? 69.138.71.41 03:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I concur.

 * And I'm getting tired of fighting with illegal a-nones. Knock yourselves out. Wahkeenah 02:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with the "a-nones" in this case. If lyrics and a translation are provided (which they are not, so someone must have removed them), the translation should convey the best meaning of the lyrics, not the best way to sing it.--Rockero 22:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Afro-Mexican
Why is this song an "Traditional Afro-Mexican" song? I mean come on there really is no need for afro with anything that relates to being a Latino! A Latino isn't of a particular race, a Latino can be a asian, african or native etc it does not matter their background because you are Latino! TeePee-20.7 13:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:LaBamba.jpg
Image:LaBamba.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Information All Wrong
La Bamba is an old son jarocho. Jarocho does have african influence but it is not direct. Its better to say it has an afro-cuban influence. Also it was never done on violin until Mariachi's hundreds of years later. and it was never done in son huasteco. harp and jarana would be best to say since those are the basic instruments of jarocho and i believe requinto wasnt really done until within a century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Myke209 (talk • contribs) 21:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:LosLobosLaBamba.jpg
Image:LosLobosLaBamba.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 20:42, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Esperanto?
Do we have any proper sources (ie not just mirrors of Wiki) for the thing about dancing La Bamba in a circle at Esperanto youth conventions? Frankly, it reads like a hoax at the moment. If it isn't, it needs citations, fast. 86.132.140.178 (talk) 02:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Lyrics
It seems a little futile to me to cite lyrics, since there are about as many variants as there are Jaraneros -- and not just little variants as the ones cited here. That's in the nature of the Son Jarocho, which is a largely improvised genre. The song can go on and on, and since it is mostly sung by two or three singers in turn, each can contribute his or her own verses, respond to the verses of the others', and so on. Obviously, recorded versions feed back into the oral and improvised tradition and most audiences expect to hear the familiar marinero-verse at one point, but the tradition of improvisation is going strong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.56.76.160 (talk) 15:10, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph Needs Work
Although there is a version circulated in the media business years popularized in 1958 by the singer of Mexican descent born in the U.S. Ritchie Valens.

What does that mean, "in the media business years"?

Son of bamba within its traditional context are a couple of calls to the dance a man and a woman, there are communities where the dance of two or more couples.

This doesn't make sense to me, either. I would edit it, but I don't know what the author(s) is trying to communicate here. Oswald Glinkmeyer (talk) 02:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Cover versions
I don't think Selena should have an infobox unless it's an important enough release to be discussed in the Main Article.Hbrackett (talk) 16:03, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I moved the listy section to the talk page.  Mahanga Talk 18:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Cover versions
The Los Lobos  version of the song, released in as part of the soundtrack of the 1987  movie La Bamba about Valens' life, concludes with  the traditional ever-faster instrumentation, instead of the "bamba-bamba, bamba-bamba..." fadeout of Valens' version. The single went to No. 1 on the Billboard charts. It also went to No. 1 on the UK charts and the Australian charts. In doing so, Ritchie Valens became the last of the three singers of the February 3, 1959 plane crash to  have a song sung, written or adapted by them to hit No. 1 (See That'll Be The Day  (Buddy Holly) and Running Bear (J.P. "Big Bopper" Richardson)).

In 1956, Harry Belafonte  made a studio recording of La Bamba.

In 1960, La Bamba was included in the album Belafonte  Returns To Carnegie Hall LSO6007,  playing time 8:06.

In 1975, the song appeared on the New Riders of the Purple Sage album Oh, What a Mighty Time.

In 1979, a frenetic punk rendition was included on The Plugz' debut album, Electrify Me.

In 1986, "La Bamba" featured as the background music to a British TV ad for the Vauxhall Nova  motor car.

In fall, 1987, the Grateful Dead incorporated "La Bamba" within their version of "Good Lovin'" during several concerts.

In 1988, Latin superstar Selena  released the song on her album entitled Preciosa.

In 1988, song parody writer/performer "Weird Al"  Yankovic wrote and  recorded a parody of "La Bamba" entitled "Lasagna". The original tune is played with Italian instruments to fit the parody's theme.

In 1988, Alvin and the Chipmunks included a version of the song, sung in their signature style, on their album Born to Rock.

In 2000, the German-Portuguese singer Marco da Silva released "La Bamba"

In 2001, country music superstar Clay Walker covered this song in his Tex Mex style on his album Say No More.

In 2003, the song was successfully covered in France by the Star Academy 4  (#2 in France, #1 in Belgium, #11 in Switzerland).

In 2004, fans of Liverpool Football Club adapted the lyrics of "La Bamba"  into a song celebrating their Spanish manager Rafael Benítez and the Spanish players he  brought to the club. The song's popularity grew and became an anthem of their UEFA Champions League win in 2005. It has been updated and changed several times to accommodate the transfer of players.

In 2005,  the Japanese  J-ska  band Yum!Yum!ORANGE  recorded a ska punk  cover released in their third album Orange Funky  Radio. That same year, Paul Shanklin released a satire about U.S. Senator  Ted Kennedy  goofing up the names Osama bin Laden  and then-freshman  Senator Barack Obama.

In 2006, it was performed in the Hungarian version of Pop Idol competition  (local name: Megasztár) by Magdolna Rúzsa, a Serbia-born Hungarian  singer. Her recording was also released on her first CD album (A döntőkben elhangzott dalok).

In 2007, the game Rayman Raving Rabbids featured this song on the jukebox.

In 2007, a cover by Leon Thomas III was featured on the soundtrack of the film August Rush.

The cover by Los Lobos is one of the featured songs in the game Guitar Hero  World Tour in the final gig at Times Square and also Guitar Hero On Tour: Decades.

More cover versions :

 * Bobby Darin
 * Mike Berry (1963)
 * The Nashville Teens (1964)
 * Dean Reed (1965)
 * Unit 4 + 2 (1965)
 * The Crickets (1965)
 * Shirley Bassey (1965)
 * The Sandpipers (1966)
 * The Ventures  (1966) -  instrumental version
 * Willie Bobo (1967)
 * Trini Lopez (1966)
 * Dusty Springfield (1968)
 * Neil Diamond (1966)
 * The Merrymen, 1966
 * Antonia Rodriguez (1978) - a  'disco' version
 * Baccara (1978)
 * The California Raisins (1987)
 * Selena (1988)
 * Rory Gallagher (1993-1994  tour)
 * Chan Romero (1996, recorded 1959)
 * The Tokens
 * Allsortz (2000)
 * Clay Walker (2001)
 * Helmut Lotti, 2000
 * Wyclef Jean feat. Ro-K  & Gammy (October 5, 2004)
 * Bubba Hernandez and Alex Meixner  aka Polka Freak Out  feat. Scrote and Zebar (November 16, 2007)
 * Lila Downs
 * Mattias Eklundh
 * Henry Mancini and The Royal  Philharmonic Orchestra
 * Deer Tick
 * The Wiggles (2008)
 * Drake Bell  (2008)
 * Yuri for her album Mi Hijita Linda (2008)
 * Tito and Tarantula
 * Nickasaur! (2009)
 * Khalil Fong (2009)

Besides all cover versions, many listeners have noted that the song Twist and Shout is very similar to La Bamba.

Dubious
"the tune itself.. remains the same through all versions"

i don't think this is quite true. the tune (as in the melody) varies between versions from what i've heard. the "rock versions" (Ritchie Valens et al.) are different, but i'd say traditional versions differ as well. k kisses 15:46, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

i'm happy now. k kisses 15:23, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Happy is good. Carptrash (talk) 15:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Selena's version?
Why was she removed from the other version's section? She recorded the song for her album And the Winner Is... which was later remixed for her album Anthology. AJona1992 (talk) 00:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Writer(s)
The Ritchie Valens version and the Los Lobos version each list different writers in the Infobox, but to my knowledge they sing the same song. (Valens: Beau Ryan; Los Lobos: William Clauson)

--CltNC830 (talk) 01:53, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Seems like Will Clauson  could not have written La Bamba if the song has been around since the early 1900's. As far as Beau Ryan, who was Beau Ryan? Was it just a made up name that Richie Valens used for writer of the song? The article states Veracruz as the place of origin. However, the original writer could have been from Spain, France, or could have been from anywhere in Europe, not necessarily from Veracruz. Either way, I would still like to know who the writer Beau Ryan actually is, that seems like a much bigger mystery than La Bamba. Beau Ryan obviously sounds like a French name, maybe the song did originate in France. Southern France would be an area where a song like La Bamba could have easily originated. I think there are a lot of possibilities here and the article does no justice to the fact that little is know about La Bamba or the original writer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dotrecords (talk • contribs) 07:09, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

After doing some research, it seems likely that Will Clauson is the person that put his own words to the traditional La Bamba melody, possibly in the 1950's. If this is true, then we may have found a lyric writer for the popular version of the song, but still no composer. Still searching copyright and public domain archives for any name matching Beau Ryan (pre 1950) for any music whatsoever, so far haven't found anything.

 * This article states that Willie Clauson was "the guy who brought the world “La Bamba.”" It says that he "discovered the fisherman’s song “La Bamba” when he was in Veracruz. He slowed it down, simplified it, sang it, then gave it to Ritchie Valens who…well, you know the rest."   In my view, that claim could be added to the article - but it would be helpful to have some more sources attesting to Clauson's involvement.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:20, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Much more info on Clauson's own website here :"It was Will who first made 'La Bamba' a major hit. It was originally music for dancing to the rapid percussive sound of foot stamping with harp and guitar accompaniment. While touring Mexico, Will so enjoyed seeing it performed that he decided to make a singable song out of it for his international audience. He slowed the tempo down to allow the audience to join in, recorded the song in a variety of languages, and by popular demand, closed nearly all of his innumerable concerts with everyone taking part." He has his own article on Swedish Wikipedia here.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:25, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Record sleeve here. And here is his (sadly, undated) performance.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:33, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

I've seen these claims stating that Will Clauson wrote some lyrics for the traditional La Bamba melody. The only problem is that in 1947 La Bamba was featured in the film "Fiesta" with a major portion of lyrics already in place. It is very unlikely that Clauson had anything to do with La Bamba prior to 1947, so any lyrics that Clauson wrote were probably just additional lyrics and more of an arrangement of the lyrics than anything else. Luis Martinez Serrano is credited as the composer of the "La Bamba" featured in the movie "Fiesta" in 1947. Serrano also has a copyright on some "traditional Mexican songs" dating back to 1950. So it is highly probable that Serrano took the traditional folk melody of La Bamba, put lyrics to it in 1947 for the film "Fiesta" and stamped his name on the entire composition. However, there is no indication that Serrano actually composed the song, because in the copyright record it is stated that he was copyrighting "traditional Mexican songs". Maybe you could do that in 1950, but not nowdays. Today you would only be able to copyright the arrangement, not the actual song. So, I'm actually just correcting myself, because I previously stated that Clauson was probably the lyric composer. What I meant was that his version of the lyrics or arrangement of the lyrics were used for the modern version of the song that Richie Valens sang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dotrecords (talk • contribs) 09:59, 12 April 2015
 * I think it would be useful to add these claims - suitably referenced of course - to the article, without trying to come to a definitive view on which ones are, in fact, accurate. I'll try and put together a brief article on Clauson in the next few days, and can add his claims then, but it would be useful if you could add to this article the information you have about Serrano and Fiesta as well. Incidentally, if Belafonte recorded it in 1956, I don't know whether his version pre-dated or post-dated Clauson.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:32, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: William Clauson. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * PPS: Do you know anything about this version by Juanita Linda, apparently recorded in 1954?   Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * PPPS: Aha! - much more information here.  And here is the version by Andres Huesca (Hermanos Huesca).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:36, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I was checking out the Hermanos Huesca version which led me back to the Son Jarocho. I guess then the article here remains pretty accurate because it would probably go back to the 1800's and an original composer or group of composers would be nearly impossible to find. It could be any combination of indigenous tribal music with many possibilities of Spanish origin, especially Andalusia. I will get links for the copyright info I was referring to earlier, regarding Luis Martinez Serrano and his copyrights of "Traditional Mexican Songs". It is probably important because he is one of the composers falsely credited with writing La Bamba along with Will Clauson and of course, Beau Ryan.
 * The reference to "Beau Ryan" was added in this anonymous edit in 2009 - which seems to be pure vandalism. Sadly, it lasted on the page for a couple of years before being removed here.  The references to Clauson being the writer are more understandable, but still wrong.  I don't know what writing credits were given on Clauson's own recordings of the song in the early 50s.  The "correct" version should be something like "Trad., arr. Valens", for his version - which is effectively what appears on early copies of the DelFi single.  At least this discussion has prompted me to do a bit of research and writing on pre-Valens versions.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:51, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Ok, because I had looked it up on Discogs after I saw it in the article and it still shows the same credit, Beau Ryan. http://www.discogs.com/Various-This-Is-Radio-Strummer/release/5026278 under a various artists compilation with the Richie Valens version of La Bamba. Maybe Discogs got it from Wikipedia somehow back when that edit was active? Thats weird. But I totally agree that Traditional arr. Valens or adapted by Richie Valens are both correct.

Disney's The Three Caballeros
I have heard that this song is featured in Disney's film "The Three Caballeros", under the name "Lilongo". Here is a link to the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie-qfEqOHiw Does anyone know if this is actually a version of "La Bamba" or is it a completely different song?--Jpcase (talk) 21:52, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I just cut this out
from the Other Versions section. because while the Beatles might have ripped off the riff, ( and we would need a reference for that claim, "Just listen to it" is not good enough) - I don't believe that that can be called "sampling." can it? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * "'The intro to the 1963 song Twist and Shout by The Beatles samples La Bamba. '

I Just removed
this good faith edit from the Traditional versions section. Perhaps we can figure out how to use the information and the source? Want to try?
 * " from Africa was usually sung by the Angolan and Congolese slaves Rogers, C.V. (Sep., 2006). Improving the Visibility of Afro-Latin Culture in the Spanish Classroom.  Hispania, 89 (3): 562-573ore been incorporated to Latin America musical element . "

Carptrash (talk) 14:53, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Public domain lyrics
Is there a public domain version of the song lyrics that we can use here (or on Wikisource)? Qzekrom (talk) 02:52, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Significant Bruce Springsteen cover ignored
Bruce Springsteen made a cover which is a significant mash-up of "La Bamba" and "Twist and Shout". This was completely disregarded in the "La Bamba" page. Here is the link to the amazing live performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXvGbWO_DIk werldwayd (talk) 14:45, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

No musicological discussion
Sadly, we have here another article on a song that omits basic information such as time. Is it 4-4 in any or all versions, for example? Kdammers (talk) 03:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Public domain recordings
The Internet Archive has a few 78 rpm recordings of this song that ought to be in the public domain by now. Assuming there are no copyright issues, perhaps someone could upload one of them to Wikimedia Commons and insert it into this page? Here's one example, recorded by Los Tres Vaqueros in 1945. -- 86.31.99.47 (talk) 21:03, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:La Bamba (song)


text:
Lunar: The Silver Star

Lunar: The Silver Star (ルナ ザ・シルバースター) is a role-playing video game developed by Game Arts in association with Studio Alex for the Sega/Mega-CD, originally published by Game Arts and released in Japan in 1992. After a successful release, the game was translated and localized by Working Designs for release in North America the following year.

Designed as a "different kind of RPG", Lunar: The Silver Star made use of the up-and-coming CD-ROM format by featuring high quality audio, full motion video, and voice acting to narrate a fantasy story set in a magical world. The game centers on the exploits of Alex, a young boy from a small town who dreams of one day becoming a great hero like his idol, Dragonmaster Dyne. When a childish adventure later turns to discovering an ancient dragon, Alex and his friends must journey across the world to gather the necessary power to become the next Dragonmaster, and save the world in the process.

Lunar: The Silver Star was critically and commercially successful, becoming the number one selling Mega-CD title in Japan and the second highest-selling Mega-CD title. As the first game in the Lunar series, it set the standard for other follow-up titles including the direct sequel Lunar: Eternal Blue in 1994. Since the game's original release, three enhanced remakes have been produced for various systems: Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete in 1996, Lunar Legend in 2002, and Lunar: Silver Star Harmony in 2009.

Gameplay
Lunar: The Silver Star is a traditional, top-down role-playing video game featuring two-dimensional characters and environments. The player must navigate towns, fields, and harsh environments to complete story-based objectives that move the plot forward, as well as interact with non-player characters to expand the script and gain various rewards. Making use of the Sega CD's disc hardware capabilities, short video and audio interludes accompany the game's narrative, including full or quarter-screen animated images and CD-DA sound files. Players record their progress by saving to either the Sega CD's internal RAM, or a separately purchased RAM cartridge that fit into the accompanying Mega Drive/Genesis.

While traveling in the game's world, players randomly encounter enemy monsters that must be defeated or avoided to progress. Battle sequences utilize a turn-based approach, with the player and enemies acting in accordance with their "speed" rating. The player issues commands to each controlled character in their party, which are then carried out in sequence until the battle ends. While on the battlefield, players may choose to move their characters to attack the enemy, retreat into a corner, stand their ground, or flee the battle entirely, with characters only able to strike enemies if they are close enough to their target or use a ranged attack. Nall, a supporting character not directly involved in combat, is present throughout the game to analyze enemies before battles begin, gauging their relative strength to the player's group. Players may find weapons, equipment, and assorted items during gameplay that increase the effectiveness of characters in battle, such as causing more damage to opponents and increasing their stamina. Winning battles grant experience points that go towards making characters stronger and able to battle progressively more difficult enemies. Upon defeat, a player may choose to load a previous save file, or restart their game at an automatically saved checkpoint.

Setting
The game takes place in the fantasy land of Lunar, a small habitable world orbiting the massive, barren blue planet (known as the Blue Star), forming a loose parallel between the game's world and the Earth and its moon. Centuries before the start of the game, the Blue Star was rendered unlivable by years of war. The powerful and benevolent goddess Althena relocated humanity to the Silver Star, the world of Lunar, and entrusted four dragons to safeguard the elements of the new world. From this point on, those who would use the power of the dragons to serve the goddess and protect the world were known as "Dragonmasters", and no such Dragonmaster was more revered than Dyne, a legendary hero who defended the goddess and succumbed to an unknown fate. The stories surrounding Dyne's exploits would form the life model for a young boy named Alex, the game's protagonist and central character, who also aspires to become a Dragonmaster himself. Many of the locations of Lunar: The Silver Star were given a deliberate "northern" feel to present an environment that was cooler than the settings of most role-playing games, if only to allow the characters to wear more clothing. Many towns and locations were based on areas of Russia and Medieval Europe.

Characters
The characters of Lunar: The Silver Star were designed by anime and manga artist Toshiyuki Kubooka. The main characters include Alex and his companions, each of which have their own reasons for joining his quest:
 * Alex - a 15-year-old boy from a small town with dreams of becoming an adventurer. Alex is a mostly silent protagonist, typical for a Japanese RPG he never speaks in the game, except for one cutscene where he confronts Ghaleon, and in the last cutscene of the game where he yells Luna's name.
 * Nall - a small, winged creature resembling a white cat who has been with him since birth.
 * Luna - Alex's childhood friend and love interest who has the unique ability to heal with music.
 * Ramus - son of the town mayor who dreams of one day opening his own shop, and begins Alex's adventuring career by having him fetch a priceless diamond from a dragon's cave.
 * Nash - a junior premier of the floating city of Vane, often prone to rash decisions and occasionally despair.
 * Mia - another junior premier of Vane, though much more reserved than Nash.
 * Kyle - a headstrong and womanizing bandit.
 * Jessica - a tomboyish daughter of a famous hero who is training to be a priestess.

Major supporting characters include the three surviving members of the Four Heroes, a legendary band of adventurers who aided Dragonmaster Dyne in protecting the Goddess Althena years before the game's story, whose ranks include:
 * "Deadly" Mel D'Alkirk, father of Jessica and mayor of the bustling city of Meribia. In the original Japanese version, it is said that he governs Meribia, although Working Designs' translation adds that he founded the city.
 * Lemia Ausa, mother of Mia and head of Vane.
 * Ghaleon, powerful sorcerer and teacher of Nash who becomes the primary antagonist after assuming his alter ego, the Magic Emperor.

The party is aided by:
 * Laike, a powerful swordsman and expert adventurer who acts as a mentor to Alex and is later revealed to be Dragonmaster Dyne after losing his powers.
 * Tempest and Fresca, plains-dwelling fighters who have their own reasons for helping Alex and his group.

Many of the character's original Japanese names were altered for the game's North American release, such as Killy to Kyle, Faidy to Quark, Temzin to Tempest, and Pilya to Fresca; Mel's original epithet, "Hell" Mel, was changed to "Deadly" for censorship reasons. A witch named Xenobia serves as a secondary antagonist and Ghaleon's right hand servant.

Story
Much of the plot of Lunar: The Silver Star was written by novelist Kei Shigema, and involves a world of high fantasy and with emphasis on folklore and legend. The game begins in the small mountain town of Burg, where a young Alex frequently visits the monument to the fallen hero Dyne, his idol. At the behest of Ramus, eager son of the town mayor, Ramus and Alex embark on their first real adventure, with Alex's adopted sister Luna and their talking flying pet Nall, to the mysterious Dragon's Cave in search of a valuable diamond. Making their way through the cavern, the group meets Quark, an aged dragon who senses great potential in Alex, and urges him to complete the trials of other dragons to become the next Dragonmaster, champion of the Goddess Althena, and protector of the world. Quark shows an interest in Luna as well, remarking that she has a familiar aura about her. Obtaining the diamond from Quark, Ramus finds he cannot sell it in Burg, and must travel to the major trade city of Meribia to claim his fortune. The group then makes their way to Saith, a small port town to the south, where Luna leaves the group to stay with Alex's family.

Across the ocean, Alex, Nall, and Ramus enter Meribia, where they meet one of the legendary Four Heroes, Mel. Attempting to sell his diamond, Ramus is swindled by a jewel dealer who flees into the sewers. After reclaiming it, Ramus slyly bargains the owner's life for his entire shop, and leaves the group to pursue his dream of becoming rich. Alex and Nash depart for the city of Vane where they meet Mia, daughter of the city's ruler and Nash's love interest, who informs them of Ghaleon, head of the guild and former great hero who fought with Dyne years ago. Seemingly intrigued by Alex's quest, Ghaleon sends Alex on a mission to investigate the appearance of a false Dragonmaster in a faraway town. Upon arrival, Alex meets Jessica, daughter of Mel and aspiring priestess, who helps him locate the imposter before returning to Vane. Pleased with his success, Ghaleon accompanies Alex back to his hometown to meet Quark and discuss Alex's future, when he suddenly attacks, revealing himself as the Magic Emperor and seemingly kills Quark in a fit of rage. Citing the loss of his friend Dyne, who died protecting the Goddess, Ghaleon swears revenge on both she and her dragons and departs after kidnapping Luna. Distraught, Alex and Nall return to Meribia to find it under attack by a band of monsters under Ghaleon's command. Regrouping with Jessica, the group fights back a wave of invaders before witnessing Mel turn to stone from a dark spell of Xenobia, Ghaleon's top general. Wanting revenge, Jessica accompanies Alex to Vane, also under siege, and assists Nash and Mia with a similar invasion before they too join the group.

Realizing they must make Alex a Dragonmaster to confront Ghaleon and save Luna, the team heads to the border town of Nanza to enlist Kyle, Jessica's boyfriend, in letting them cross into foreign land. After traveling to a town of inventors, the group obtains a floating device that leads them to the lair of the Red Dragon, who is seemingly destroyed by Ghaleon just before they arrive. The dragon's spirit grants Alex her power before disappearing, and the group departs for the Blue Dragon's cave behind a musical town. Again, the dragon is defeated before their arrival, and the team must travel to the distant and barren Frontier to seek the final trial. The party finds the black dragon, which attacks the team in a mad rage induced by Ghaleon but is defeated. With the final dragon's blessing, Alex and his companions approach the construction site of Ghaleon's mobile mechanical castle, the Grindery, but are unable to stop its advance before it destroys Vane using the power of Luna, who is revealed to be the human form of the Goddess Althena and who is under the Magic Emperor's control. After obtaining Althena's Sword and learning the truth about Luna, the party attacks the Grindery and defeats both Xenobia and the Magic Emperor. Knowing what he must do to bring Luna back, Alex climbs the path to Luna, who, as Althena, continuously blasts him with lightning; he plays his harp as he advances, and hearing their song allows Luna's personality to return. She awakens in Alex's arms, surrounded by their friends.

Development
Lunar: The Silver Star was developed by Game Arts in an attempt to create a role-playing game that would both primarily focus on animation and storytelling. The team turned to scenario writer and novelist Kei Shigema to craft a story that would break away from "hum-drum 'model'" games that "had stories, but had no story-telling". Using the Sega CD's video playback capabilities, animator and artist Toshiyuki Kubooka oversaw the planning of several video sequences that would be coupled with voice-overs to better tell the story of the Lunar world. Settling on an overall fantasy approach as opposed to the popular role-playing alternative of science fiction, the team wanted to explore the mythos and history of a fictional world that would gradually reveal itself to the player over time. Having mostly developed side-scrollers and scrolling shooters for the Mega Drive and PC Engine, Game Arts formed its subsidiary company, Studio Alex, named for the main character of this title, to oversee most of the game's development. Due to time constraints, nearly one-third of the Lunar project was scrapped by the game's release.

Lunar's English version was handled by Working Designs, a small California-based publisher who had previously localized smaller games for the TurboGrafx-16 and TurboDuo. Their biggest project yet, the team, headed by company vice president and chief writer Victor Ireland, took to the project seriously, often collaborating with the original Japanese team themselves. New gameplay elements were often added at Ireland's request, including new sequences such as playing Alex's harp to awaken Luna near the end of the game. Working Designs also put extra effort into the game's packaging, giving the instruction booklet embossed lettering, and having seven separate stamps, each with different artwork, produced for the front of the game discs to increase collection value.

The English script was nearly four megabytes in size, yet Working Designs completed the translation in only eight weeks after a marathon programming session. During translation, the developers did find time to inject some of their own humor in to the game's text, dropping in sentences such as Have you ever tried swimming in lemon jello?, and numerous light-hearted pop culture references not seen in the original version, including allusions to American commercials, celebrities, colloquialisms, products, and role-playing game clichés.

Audio
The music for Lunar: The Silver Star was composed by Noriyuki Iwadare, Hiroshi Fujioka, Isao Mizoguchi, and Yoshiaki Kubodera, who utilized the Sega CD's sound capabilities to create CD-quality CD-DA. The game features the opening theme "Lunar", performed by Mayumi Sudou in the original Japanese version. The untitled English version is a slightly arranged piece performed by vocalist Shiya Almeda which features new lyrics by Victor Ireland, who intended the song to sound less "lovey-dovie" with a greater "sense of urgency".

The Lunar: The Silver Star Original Soundtrack was released exclusively in Japan by Toshiba-EMI Records on April 22, 1992, two months before the actual release of the game. The album features full versions of the Japanese opening and ending themes, as well as karaoke arrangements. Most of the game's background themes are presented as multi-song medleys rather than separate tracks. Although an official North American version was never released, many of the songs present on the album were featured as special arrangements on the bonus soundtrack found in the Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete collector's edition, including the English opening theme.

Voice
Both the Japanese and English adaptations of Lunar: The Silver Star contain roughly fifteen minutes of spoken dialogue from a number of prominent voice actors. Though the game has a number of main and supporting characters, only five are actually voiced during specific story sequences. The Japanese version features Kikuko Inoue as both Alex and Luna, Rei Sakuma as Nall, Kōichi Kitamura as the white dragon Quark, and Rokurō Naya as Ghaleon. The English version comprised mostly new talent and associates of Working Designs' staff, such as a young Ashley Parker Angel as Alex, Rhonda Gibson as Luna, Jackie Powers as Nall, Hal Delahousse as Quark, and John Truitt as Ghaleon. While the entire Japanese cast was replaced for the game's remake on the PlayStation, all of the original English cast would return to reprise their roles.

Reception
Lunar: The Silver Star was well received in Japan, selling an estimated 100,000 copies. It sold out its entire Japanese production run in its first year after release, nearly as much as the Mega-CD itself. It is considered the Mega-CD's first hit game, which Sega credits solely for pushing the system's sales in that region. The game remains the best-selling Mega-CD title of all time in Japan, and second highest selling worldwide behind Sonic the Hedgehog CD. Readers of Japanese magazine Megadrive Beep voted it the number one Mega Drive role-playing game for 17 straight months before being trumped by Shining Force II.

The English version was met with positive reception. Reviewers for GameFan magazine praised the graphics, music, and story. The magazine's editors would later name it as the greatest role-playing game of 1993. GamePro considered it to be "not just the best Sega CD RPG ever, but one of the best on any Sega system", giving particular merit to the game's translation. Game Players summarized the game as "a solid RPG, and well worth your time", but felt its graphics were too similar to other RPGs and found the combat system to be dull. Electronic Gaming Monthly had five reviewers, Ed, Dano, Al, Sushi-X, and Mike, give the game scores of 9, 8, 7, 7, and 7, respectively, ranging from "worthy" to "virtually flawless" ratings. The magazine commended its music but would echo a similar sentiment to Game Players, adding that the battle sequences were "a bit dull". EGM's 1999 Video Game Buyer's Guide listed four of these scores, 9, 8, 7, and 7, averaging out to 7.75 out of 10 overall, and described the game as "one of the best RPGs ever".

Accolades
Mega placed the game at #8 in their top Mega-CD games of all time. In 1995, Flux magazine rated Lunar 76th on their Top 100 Video Games. In 2006, Lunar ranked 113th in EGM and 1UP.com's list of the greatest "videogames of their time", celebrating the games that were considered the best during their original release. Retro Gamer included The Silver Star among their top ten Mega-CD games, noting its "astounding soundtrack" and "fantastic" localization.

Legacy
As the first game in the Lunar series, The Silver Star established many of the themes and characters that would be seen in later installments. The game was followed by Lunar: Eternal Blue in 1994, a direct sequel that takes place one thousand years in The Silver Star's future, and contains many references to the original title. Other follow-ups, including Lunar: Walking School in 1996 and Lunar: Dragon Song in 2005 would act as the game's prequels, taking place many hundred years before the game's story.

Remakes
Lunar: The Silver Star has been re-made several times by different developers and publishers for a number of consoles between 1996 and 2009. These games feature graphic and sound enhancements as well as an expanded script.

title: Lunar: The Silver Star


text:
User:Brunnock

Sean Brunnock

Tips for editing articles
Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity. -William of Ockham

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. -Leonardo da Vinci

Brevity is the soul of wit. -William Shakespeare

''Nature is pleased with simplicity. And nature is no dummy.'' -Isaac Newton

Simplify, simplify, simplify. -Henry David Thoreau

Less is more. -Ludwig Mies van der Rohe

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius—and a lot of courage—to move in the opposite direction. -E. F. Schumacher

Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler. -Albert Einstein

Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, ''to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity.'' -Charles Bukowski

The simplest things are often the truest. -Richard Bach

Keep it simple, stupid. -United States Navy

Tips for dealing with other editors
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing. -Socrates

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. -Bertrand Russell

Like badly taught six-year-olds, we are too quick to go straight to opinion making without the intermediate steps of understanding and evaluation. -Susan Wise Bauer

'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. -Various sources

''Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level'' and beat you with experience. -Mark Twain

Wikipedia is an interesting long-term study in editing by psychopaths -Dave Snowden

Books I've read
{| cellpadding="5"
 * - valign="top"

History

 * The Cartoon History of the Universe (I-III) by Larry Gonick
 * Maps of Time: An Introduction to Big History by David Christian
 * Book of Historical Records by Norris McWhirter
 * Ascent to Civilization by John Gowlett
 * Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond
 * War Through the Ages by Lynn Montross
 * What If? (volumes 1+2) by Robert Cowley
 * The Last Apocalypse by James Reston Jr.
 * The Birth of the Modern by Paul Johnson
 * A History of the World in 6 Glasses by Tom Standage
 * Don't Know Much About History by Kenneth Davis
 * Samurai William by Giles Milton
 * The Commanders by Bob Woodward
 * Secret Intelligence by Ernest Volkman and Blaine Bagget
 * History Lessons by Dana Lindaman and Kyle Ward
 * Milton's Teeth and Ovid's Umbrella by Michael Olmert
 * The Human Story by James C. Davis

History of Technology

 * Gunpowder by Jack Kelly
 * Longitude by Dava Sobel and William Andrewes
 * The Victorian Internet by Tom Standage
 * The Prize by Daniel Yergin
 * Star Warriors by William Broad

History of Computers

 * The Difference Engine by Doron Swade
 * Before the Computer by James Cortada
 * Computer by Martin Campbell-Kelly and William Aspray
 * Microcosm by George Gilder
 * Go To by Steve Lohr
 * The Information Technology Revolution by Tom Forester
 * Hackers by Steven Levy
 * UNIX: A History and a Memoir by Brian Kernighan
 * Genius Makers by Cade Metz
 * Fire in the Valley by Michael Swaine & Paul Freiberger
 * The Daemon, the Gnu, and the Penguin by Peter H. Salus
 * Decoding the Heavens by Jo Marchant
 * Computers in the Early Years by Paul Love
 * Priming the Pump by Theresa Welsh & David Welsh
 * A Mind at Play by Jimmy Soni
 * A History of Online Information Services, 1963-1976 by Charles Bourne & Trudi Hahn
 * The Computer Book by Simson Garfinkel and Rachel Grunspan

Philosophy

 * The Story of Philosophy by Bryan Magee
 * A History of Knowledge by Charles Van Doren

Science

 * A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson
 * Chronology of Science and Discovery by Isaac Asimov

Psychology and Sociology

 * Seeing Voices by Oliver Sacks
 * The Silent Twins by Marjorie Wallace
 * The Second Self by Sherry Turkle
 * Speed Tribes by Karl Greenfield
 * Lipstick Traces by Greil Marcus

Computer Crime

 * The Cuckoo's Egg by Clifford Stoll
 * At Large by David Freedman and Charles C. Mann
 * Takedown by Tsutomu Shimomura
 * American Kingpin by Nick Bilton
 * The Mastermind by Evan Ratliff

Business and Economics

 * The Worldly Philosophers by Robert Heilbroner
 * The Commanding Heights by Daniel Yergin
 * The Business of America by John Steele Gordon
 * The Company by John Micklethwait and Adrian Woolridge
 * Money and Power by Howard Means
 * What You Need to Know About Business, Money and Power by Michael Kidron and Ronald Segal
 * Global Dreams by Richard Barnet and John Cavanagh
 * The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen
 * Reengineering the Corporation by Michael Hammer and James A. Champy
 * Barbarians to Bureaucrats by Lawrence Miller
 * Forbes' Greatest Business Stories of All Time by Daniel Gross
 * When Genius Failed by Roger Lowenstein
 * Comeback by Paul Ingrassia and Joseph White
 * Barbarians at the Gate by Bryan Burrough and John Helyar
 * Den of Thieves by James B. Stewart
 * Liar's Poker by Michael Lewis
 * The Money Culture by Michael Lewis

Computer Businesses

 * IBM vs Japan by Robert Sobel
 * The Soul of a New Machine by Tracy Kidder
 * Accidental Empires by Robert X. Cringely
 * The New Imperialists by Mark Leibovich
 * Once Upon a Time in Computerland by Jonathan Littman
 * Showstopper by G. Pascal Zachary
 * Start-Up by Jerry Kaplan
 * aol.com by Kara Swisher
 * Burn Rate by Michael Wolff
 * The Perfect Store by Adam Cohen
 * Super Pumped by Mike Isaac
 * Wired: A Romance by Gary Wolf
 * I'm Feeling Lucky (book) by Douglas Edwards
 * Disrupted by Daniel Lyons
 * The Big Score by Michael S. Malone
 * Founders at Work by Jessica Livingston
 * To Pixar and Beyond by Lawrence Levy
 * How I Lost 170 Million Dollars by Noah Kagan
 * Chaos Monkeys by Antonio García Martínez

Computer Critiques

 * The Mythical Man-Month by Fred Brooks
 * The Electronic Sweatshop by Barbara Garson
 * The Trouble with Computers by Thomas Landauer
 * The Cult of Information by Theodore Roszak
 * Fatal Defect by Ivars Peterson
 * Cyberspace by Michael Benedikt

Education Critiques

 * Why the Professor Can't Teach by Morris Kline
 * Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen
 * The Well-Educated Mind by Susan Wise Bauer
 * Educated by Tara Westover

Running

 * Running with the Buffaloes by Chris Lear
 * Build Your Running Body by Pete Magill
 * Once a Runner by John L. Parker Jr.
 * Against the Clock by John Bryant
 * Born to Run by Christopher McDougall
 * Running with the Kenyans by Adharanand Finn
 * The Way of the Runner by Adharanand Finn
 * Running to the Edge by Matthew Futterman

Health

 * This Is Going to Hurt by Adam Kay
 * Exercised by Daniel Lieberman
 * }

Sandbox
User:Brunnock/History of the World Wide Web

title: User:Brunnock


text:
Wikipedia:Irish wikipedians' notice board/Archive05

Foreign relations of the Republic of Ireland
I came across this page by accident. There are only two real pages linking to Foreign relations of the Republic of Ireland (ignoring redirects etc.) – The Royal Hospital, Kilmainham and List of Ireland-related topics.

What should be on this page, what should its title be (Foreign relations of Ireland is unused), and what should link to it?

I suggest there is no point spending valuable time until the last point above is addressed - there is little or no point to fixing up a page no-one will see.

zoney ♣ talk 12:45, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Can't really see the point in having a separate page unless major expansion too place, and even then it's probably not the best place for it. I say merge the content into History of Ireland/Rep of Ireland or Politics of the Republic of Ireland or Economy of Ireland as appropriate and redirect the few incoming links as well.  Leave a stub or redirect to one of the above or Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs. (or is all that just called merge and delete!) jlang 17:45, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Having been an active wikipedian for nearly a year and used it before this I never cease to be amazed how little people attempt to publise often good articles - many of the articles on Irish wikipedians' notice board/to do have less than five links - part of the process of placing them here should be providing relevent specific links - Their are many other Irish-related articles in a similar situation. As for "history of Ireland" articles, rewriting them could take a considerable effort - thats why I recommend stearing clear of them!
 * Should Categorization and Irish topics reform should be a priority in itself? Djegan 22:45, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

WP:LCOTW
Filiocht 10:52, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

Architecture of Ireland
Is there an article on architecture in Ireland as a whole? Seabhcan 12:13, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * No (apparently). Alternative title, Architecture in Ireland. I suggest this as a ICOTW. zoney ♣ talk 12:23, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Stick it up there for a vote. A useful section in Palladian Architecture. Filiocht 12:38, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

Irish FA
I've added a lttle section to the projecty page listing the Irish articles that have gained FA status, to encourage Irish wikipedians to produce more top class work - I hope you don't mind. CGorman 19:42, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gmail
This must seem biased that I´m listing them here, but I´ve two Gmail invites that I want to give to Wikipedians, and I´d prefer wikipedians I know, hence listing here. So you can email me at johnbcollison@gmail.com if you want one. Note: I am not trying to stop other people getting them - anyone can take me up on this offer, not just IWNBers. Ludraman

 * I've 6 to give away... CGorman 21:50, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Smoking ban
Is there an article on the Smoking ban in the Republic of Ireland? Very topical at the moment with the ná Chótaí Dearga going down the same road. Seabhcan 15:51, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * No, but smoking ban reasonably expands on our experience. Incidentally, I think they're likely to screw up in the UK with their bans. The selective and wooly reasoning behind their bans is not as outrightly defendable as a simple "workplace ban to protect workers from passive smoking" (ignoring our few exceptions). zoney ♣ talk 16:14, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I think so too (about the UK ban). Baning smoking only in pubs where food is served seems unenforceble. They also seem to have missed the point of the Irish ban. It was not for the benifit of the customers, but of the staff. Seabhcan 18:01, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, no, I think the Irish ban was indeed planned to be to the benefit of all (not just staff). But focussing on the workers aspect gave a valid pretext for the ban. zoney ♣ talk 19:27, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * The food served limitation makes some minor sense as pubs with food are the only ones those under the age of 14 can enter after 6PM, and only ones in which the legal age to get served is 16 (!!) in the UK. Still a bit pointless not outright banning though... Kiand 19:33, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ireland is the best place to live in the world!?!
This is interesting: The Economist has named the Republic as having the highest "quality of life" in the world. (BBC Article) Something tells me they don't use Public Transport!. Seabhcan 20:26, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * And they're not sitting here this morning looking out at the rain, in the dark, looking forward to travelling home this evening, in the dark, in the rain!Filiocht 08:28, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * You should see the thick layer of mud on the back of my jacket from my cycling in this morning. It was either cycle to work on dirt tracks by the river, or the usual "risk death by traffic". Why we can't have cycle lanes like a normal European country is beyond me! Cars should be subservient to all other modes of transport!
 * While I'm making smalltalk rather than staying on topic - did yous catch Bertie's nutjob claim to be "one of the few socialists left in Irish politics" nutjob comment? Heh, I'd nearly add it to Bertie Ahern for a laugh! Bertie Ahern is the socialist leader of the People's Republic of Ireland.
 * Hilarious news day yesterday!
 * zoney ♣ talk 11:47, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I wonder will Brian Cowan come out as a Red BIFFO in the book of estimates today? Filiocht 12:12, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Celtic Tiger
Celtic Tiger will be on the main page on the 29th Nov. CGorman 21:09, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Irish phrasebook
At Wikitravel, an Irish phrasebook is under construction. Any Irish Wikipedians who want to help out are very welcome. J OHN C OLLISON [ Ludraman] 15:32, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

British and Irish current events
FYI, I have started a new British and Irish current events page. Please feel free to add Irish current events (including sports events). jguk 23:06, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Sport in Ireland
I've been expanding Sport in Ireland substantially over the last few days with a view to getting it to FA quality. However it is by no measure even near that sort of qualitty, so I would appreciate the additions of others, particularly in the wording/spelling etc., - im editing it quite quickly and may have made many unintentional blunders. Please do what you can. Thanks. CGorman 22:31, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Irish speed limit changeover
Hi all! (I'm back in action to some degree!)

Can I ask you to get your cameras out, and if a location near you has at some stage a speed limit post with two speed limit signs visible (miles and km/h), please photograph it. This is a unique opportunity to capture such a scene, an interesting addition for the article speed limit (and should be the first image, rather than a photo of a US sign - used only in that country). I'm keeping tabs on such a location near me which has the new signs erected already, albeit covered. Hopefully I'll get a chance to photograph the signs when the new ones are uncovered but before the old ones are covered/removed.

It'd be interesting at some stage to create an article on Irish road signage, as we have an interesting mix of US-derived and British signage. As well as some interesting oddities, such as the domestic "stay left" signage (black left-upward curved arrow in red circle) occasionally used instead of the now more common British sign (white left-downward straight arrow on blue disc).

zoney ♣ talk 16:13, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * The N11 around the RTE/UCD area has some of the new signs up already, but they've for the most part removed the old ones, so that they're not seen together. rdd, 13:55, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC).

 * There's a wonderful quote from a Dublin taxi driver on The Associated Press: 'CONFUSED? THEY AREN'T: Many drivers say police give out very few tickets, and most plan just to go with the traffic flow. "They can list these speeds in watts or grams or, whaddya call 'em, megabytes - I still won't get a ticket," one taxi driver said.' Seabhcán 00:45, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * That's a good one. There's no doubt, there seems to be some degree of indifference to such a major change. I guess with the euro changeover, smoking ban, etc. nothing is likely to faze us! Personally I just consider it another sign of our becoming a modern European country.

 * As an aside, the LUAS has used metric distances and speed limits since its inception, but the rail network still uses not only miles per hour, but also miles for distance (yes, those 150 year old mileposts are still in use - the ones outside Heuston station even got cleaned up recently! The oldest piece of rail infrastructure in the country!) But it does bring up an interesting issue - eventually the rail system will also have to change, unless we want a NASA-type situation. In fact, that's not so far-fetched - with the recent DMUs, some classes have kph speedometers, some mph and some dual! Potential for a mess-up? zoney ♣ talk 11:21, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Daniel O'Donnell
I've just seen this page. Shame on you Irishpeople. How could you let it happen? ;) jguk 12:56, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that Assemblymember O'Donnell is less worthy of being included in Wikipedia than the Irish singer? jlang 23:11, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

County Louth Map
Hello ppl, was wondering if their is a County Louth map out their similar to the ones like Counties Dublin and Cork, if not was wondering is someone wouln't mind maybe doing one, i would my self but i don't have any graphic packages, thanks. --Boothy443 08:53, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Query
I wonder if anyone can help with an email query (on the foundation mail system). The mail says... "on the provenice of ulster, your map, is indeed wrong, as derry is at the edge of the free state your map takes it to the coast, which is indeed very wrong". Can anyone make sense of this and confirm we have the right information in our articles? I'm guessing that the map refered to is the one on Ulster. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 19:16, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Our map is correct. The person has made the mistake of confusing Ulster and Northern Ireland; while most of the counties in Ulster are part of Northern Ireland, Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan are not - they are part of the Republic of Ireland. It may seem confusing but thats the way it is. CGorman 21:39, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * That's great - thanks for the help CGorman -- sannse (talk) 15:34, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * The confusion some have is compounded by the fact that particularly the Unionist community in Northern Ireland refer to the six counties (incorrectly) as Ulster (e.g. "Ulster says NO") conveniently forgetting the three Ulster counties in the Republic. No doubt there are those (for instance, anyone who's inclined to refer to the Republic of Ireland as "the free state") at this stage who actually believe that Ulster == Six Counties.
 * zoney ♣ talk 16:10, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Towns and villages navigation box
The Norwegian wiki has an interesting little navigation box for Irish town, with information such as English and Irish town names, population, county and provence. Seems like a good idea. Mal:Infoboks_Irland_sted, Cratloe Seabhcán 17:58, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Nice idea, I think we should certainly think about doing something similer. First thing to decide is what pieces of info we want to include, so far we have the following things:

 * Name
 * Irish Name
 * Population
 * County
 * Provience

 * So any suggestions? Aminities? No. schools? thrid level institutions, Major roads, raillines, canals, rivers? Or should we have anything extra? Oh, and should we level space for photos - as it is likely that most towns will eventually be photographed on wikipedia. Im prepared to get the project started - e.g. format a template and do the 15-20 largest towns. Im sure I could drag Zoney into doing the rest! Anyways i'll leave this for descussion for a few days before I design the template, so make your suggestions now! CGorman 20:41, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, I would hate to see a boring box with the dry details on Irish towns. I feel it would completely spoil the look of the Irish town articles (many of which are only short stubs with not much more than the details of placename, Irish name, countyname). It's bad enough having to incorporate a table into the city articles - which apart from the map, contain so few details that they do not in my opinion, require a table (the details can all be in the first couple sentences in the intro).
 * I feel Wikipedia has a problem generally speaking with having infoboxes for the sake of them.
 * Apologies if I've been somewhat blunt, but the notion does not appeal to me.
 * zoney ♣ talk 22:50, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * You have a point. Adding infoboxes is a lot easier than writing content. But one certainly useful type of box is one with links to 'sister' articles, such as the Cities in Ireland template. Irish town articles do seem a little hard to find though. Take the Cratloe article, which is only linked to by List of towns in the Republic of Ireland, County Clare and Rail transport in Ireland. Perhaps we could dream up some clever way to browse through the town articles: more traffic would encourage more editing. A clickable map would be ideal, but mediawiki doesn't allow that. Perhaps a combined infobox-naviagation box with links to neighbouring towns?
 * Towns in Ireland are connected by roads, railways and rivers. How about navigation boxes which list towns on particular rivers, roads, and railways? Seabhcán 12:11, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Or perhaps just make sure neighbouring towns are in the "See also" *? I have added the relevant towns to our national routes (there's only N1 - N7 and one or two others) - the same should indeed be done for rivers. Again, I think the railway routes listed in Rail transport in Ireland do indeed all link to the relevant towns.
 * The more important towns are indeed quite well linked. I think this isn't too much of a problem - and for those towns which aren't well linked - I think just adding links to other articles based on relevance - human judgement, is better than adding navigation boxes to all articles.
 * I think many navigation boxes are simply accepting that articles aren't well designed - and no-one's made an effort to ensure links are included prominently in the article text.
 * zoney ♣ talk 15:54, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * * On a related note, I think "Related topics" is probably a better title than see also for such links. "Related topics" is an acceptable deviation in the Wikipedia Manual of Style.


text:
Talk:D. Michael Quinn

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Early Mormonism and the Magic World View
The section on Early Mormonism and the Magic World View states that the book's "central thesis is implausible without Mark Hofmann's 'Salamander Letter.'" First of all, who wrote this? A citation would be nice and I have added the appropriate tags. Secondly, I don't understand the statement. The book's "central thesis is implausible without Mark Hofmann's 'Salamander Letter'"? How? I have the second (revised and enlarged) edition of the book in front of me right now. Quinn maintains that the first and second editions of his book definitely maintained that Hoffman's Salamander Letter was a forgery (pp. xi-xii). Hoffman appears on only one page (p. 152) of the book's main text (plus twice in the intro and four times in the endnotes). How is that Salamander Letter then the "central thesis" of Quinn's book? Without any proper citations, I suggest a wholesale rewrite of this section. TuckerResearch (talk) 21:19, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced information about subject's death
As of this posting, there is only ONE mention on the Internet about the possible death of the subject. This information is sourced primarily by a discussion on Twitter and there have been no WP:RELIABLE news releases (to my knowledge) to substantiate this. If (and when) anyone knows of any reliable sources, then please post them here or edit the article and provide those sources as citations. Otherwise, please refrain from posting about the death of the subject until you have reliable sources. This is only common respect for the family of the subject, who have apparently not yet released this information to the news sources. Thank you, Johnnie Bob (talk) 01:23, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Death confirmed by the Salt Lake Tribune, see here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:32, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Johnnie Bob (talk) 02:45, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , the article says he was discovered dead on Wednesday (21 April). Should that be his stated death date, or should it just be "April 2021"? Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:49, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , I would think it should be given as 21 April until/unless other information becomes available. Agreed? Johnnie Bob (talk) 02:54, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That was my sense. I wasn't sure if there was a standard approach for instances like this. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:56, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:D. Michael Quinn


text:
Talk:Pedro Joaquín Chamorro Cardenal

Untitled
I see that the user didn't cite any sources.

Merge
I have gone ahead and merged the content from the Pedro Joaquín Chamorro article. The other article had more content, but after checking "What links here" and the page history, it turned out that the other article had originally been created for his ancestor, before being taken over. This page has always been about the La Prensa editor, so I thought it best to be bold, merge the info from the other article, and restore the other entry to its original subject. --Groggy Dice 19:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Move
I intend to move this page to "Pedro Joaquín Chamorro Cardenal" and provide a disambiguation page "Pedro Chamorro". The latter to include the former, plus Pedro José Chamorro Bolaños, Pedro Joaquín Chamorro Bolaños, Pedro Joaquín Chamorro Zelaya, and three or four more. If not done now, the confusion will grow. J. Peterka 07:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation is completed. The removed text became unnecessary. J. Peterka 19:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 00:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pedro Joaquín Chamorro Cardenal


text:
Talk:Chosen (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Untitled
Please help complete the Angel/Buffy episode articles. See what needs to be done on this sub-page of WikiProject Buffy:

WikiProject Buffy/Episodes

Also please help update any major changes made to episode articles on that page so that progress can be mapped.

________________________________________________________

Unclear sentences
When I saw the line "'Chosen' depicts the final battle between The First and the potential Slayers..." it was not clear to me on first reading that The First was an evil; i.e. the line almost sounded like a generational conflict between current and potential slayers.

Feel free to change it back if you disagree....I just felt like making sense of the previous wording depended upon prior knowledge of who and what The First was. Evenprime 21:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

 * That would be confusing. We should rewrite it completely. It's not just the potentials who are fighting on the good's side. Xiner 03:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Clean-up
I removed many sentences I found extraneous. I've been guilty of the same in the past. Please ensure that whatever is added is important to the episode and not just another line. (unsigned comment added by Xiner)
 * I think this article needs some serious love. Right now all the elements are there, they just need to be arranged and edited to have a better "flow".  Kweeket 22:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Gallery
What's the fair use rationale for four uncaptioned and seemingly useless screencaps in the production section? I mean, even if they have been released to media orgs, that still doesn't mean they can go without a rationale. As they are technically press kit images, does that not violate some kind of image rule? CelebrityApe 20:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Technical Goofs
Do we really need the bit about seeing the line supporting Vi? Seems pointless to me. Lots42 07:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Turok-Han
Odd, I could have sworn the in-plot reason for the Turok-Han being easier to kill was the original one being super-powered up by the First, like Caleb was. Lots42 10:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Buffy724.jpg
Image:Buffy724.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Emma Caulfield/ Why was 8th televised season kaboshed?
I'm wondering if we can provide any more information for two things. The first is, can anyone out there provide more specific(documented) information on why Emma Caulfied felt disrespected on the show (follow the #6 link), and does anyone know why they never went forward on the 8th televised season? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.237.8.197 (talk) 02:10, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

en français
In case anyone was curious: the recent vandal replaced the plot section with a machine translation to French, bad enough that it's almost funny. —Tamfang (talk) 17:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

deaths of Anya

 * Anya is killed in battle by a Bringer. Interestingly, Whedon joked about having her killed in the fifth season finale, which was originally intended for series finale.

Is this in DVD commentary on "The Gift", or what? – I'm deleting the word "Interestingly". —Tamfang (talk) 19:02, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

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???
"He tells her he will fight alongside her, but she turns him down, asking him to instead organize a second front in case she loses to the first."

"The first" what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 03:00, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chosen (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)


text:
Fryske Akademy

The Fryske Akademy (Frisian for Frisian Academy), founded in 1938, is the scientific centre for research and education concerning Friesland (Fryslân in West Frisian) and its people, language and culture, this in its broadest sense. The institution is based in the Coulonhûs and adjacent buildings in Leeuwarden. Together with several other institutes it belongs to the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences (KNAW). It has about 60 employees. In addition, some 300 scientists, amateurs and professionals, are active in the scientific societies hosted by the Fryske Akademy.

Activities
Although the academy's mission includes a wide scope of Friesland-related topics, a great deal of its work focuses particularly on the West Frisian language. It has also done a great deal to regulate the language. The Fryske Akademy publishes the  (Dictionary of the (West) Frisian Language), which serves as the language's principal authority.

It also does a good deal of research regarding the language, history, and culture of the Frisian people. Since its inception, it has published almost 1,000 scientific books, thousands of articles, and a large number of reports on these subjects. A few larger projects include:
 * the authoritative dictionary of the West Frisian language, in 25 volumes;
 * a West Frisian–English dictionary;
 * the Historical Geographical Information System (HISGIS), in which historical registers of real property have been linked to other information like parish registers;
 * the Mercator European Research Centre on Multilingualism and Language Learning, which has been financed in part by the Council of Europe, the province of Friesland, and the municipality of Leeuwarden.

Function in society/social function
The social purpose of the Fryske Akademy is, as its statutes have it, the maintenance of societies for the study of Friesland, in which professional scientists and amateur scientists participate. The societies are in part responsible for the large number of books which the Fryske Akademy produces. Very active societies include the Genealogical Society, the Archaeological Society, and the Biological Society. Active or passive participation in these societies is open to everyone paying his dues as a donor of the Fryske Akademy. There are about 3000 donors, each paying a minimum of 25 euro a year.

In addition, the Fryske Akademy carries out contract research for third parties, such as the provincial authorities for whom the Fryske Akademy investigated the quality of language education at primary level. It also contributed to the development of test for speech therapy for West Frisian, which made it possible to assess children's linguistic progress in West Frisian. Up till then, only a Dutch test had been used, which gave distorted results in the case of bilingual children.

The academy is also the home of Fryske Rie foar Heraldyk, a heraldic advisory board for the Frisian region.

History
The Fryske Akademy was founded in 1938 with the support of the provincial authorities at the behest of many pro-Frisian politicians and scientists, notably the historian Geart Aeilco Wumkes and the theologian Titus Brandsma. Before the foundation of the Fryske Akademy, two societies were concerned with Frisian science: These 19th-century societies regarded themselves as the intellectual heirs to the University of Franeker, which was abolished by Napoleon and which the government of the new Kingdom of the Netherlands failed to reopen. To some extent, the Fryske Akademy considers itself a successor to the University of Franeker.
 * The Frisian society for History, Archaeology, and Linguistics
 * The society for the Frisian language and book knowledge

title: Fryske Akademy


text: Talk:Linda McCartney

title: Talk:Linda McCartney


text:
User:BlueCanoe/WA

The Wilderness Act of 1964 created the legal definiton of wilderness in the United States, and protected some 9 million acres (37,000 square km) of federal land. The result of a long effort to protect federal wilderness, the Wilderness Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on September 3, 1964.

...an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.

title: User:BlueCanoe/WA


text: User talk:69.113.41.234

title: User talk:69.113.41.234