text:
Talk:Gun laws of Australia

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Gun laws in Australia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160113130203/http://www.anao.gov.au/uploads/documents/1997-98_Audit_Report_25.pdf to http://www.anao.gov.au/uploads/documents/1997-98_Audit_Report_25.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18950038-7583,00.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/members.nsf/V3ListCurrentLCMembers
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120826235136/http://www.ausparty.org.au/issues.html to http://www.ausparty.org.au/issues.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:25, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Removal of section about 2017 study
A user has removed a whole section about a study considering state and territory compliance with the national firearms agreement. When I reverted this, i was reverted: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/809576852. Rather than get in an edit war, I'd be happy to discuss in this page. I disagree with the user that it is irrelevant to the article. Thoughts? Goldcactus (talk) 00:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the section is rather long standing and relates directly to the gun laws in Australia. It should remain in the article. Stickee (talk) 01:34, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

The study was commissioned by a Gun control group, undertaken by a gun control advocate simply to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion and for their own gun control purposes. The report, along with the parties involved are highly biased, and not only does not represent a reputable / credible source, but the firearms industry, firearm owners as well as legislators disregard such material. The item relates to the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) with is crucially NOT gun law but a 15 page agreement reached upon, which state laws were to be 'generally' based and importantly there was no obligation to implement all, or indeed any of the provisions, this sentiment has been restated recently by the Minister of Justice in relation to the recently revised NFA. Hence where there is no obligation; 'compliance' to this brief agreement is not relevant to the actual legislation, certainly not a page describing gun laws. There are many reputable academic reports published in relation to the firearm laws and the post 1996 environment, that are more insightful, more credible, and certainly more relevant, but not entirely necessary for such a page discussing gun laws. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eatyoursoylentgreen (talk • contribs) 02:26, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The study was reported by multiple third party sources, including the ABC, SMH and The Guardian. Here at Wikipedia, we says what sources say, not what our opinion is. You might think the report is "highly biased", but the reliable sources don't. Stickee (talk) 05:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm making further discussion regarding the additions to these sections. The edits are unsourced, and appear to be original research by the author. Stickee (talk) 12:06, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Primary sourced statements
There's a couple of statements that are entirely sourced by primary sources and show no evidence of notability, as per the WP:PRIMARY policy. As such I've reverted. I see also  it too previously. Stickee (talk) 08:32, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

An interesting application by Stickee and CamV8 of the [WP:PRIMARY] policy to remove an edit in this article which was under the sub heading "Statements by organisations". The edit removed contained extracts from the National Farmers’ Federation Submission to the Review of the National Firearms Agreements. That submission was published on the NFF's own website at The Wikipedia [WP:PRIMARY] policy includes "A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge." In this case anyone may go to the NFF website and verify that the NFF did in fact make these statements because that organisation has itself published the submission.Antihypocritic (talk) 05:38, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

 * The problem with using solely primary sources is there's no way to establish notability about the information presented by the primary source(s). At this stage, there's no evidence that statement is notable at all. Other content in the article is republished in notable secondary sources. Stickee (talk) 01:15, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Notability applies to articles not the content in articles. The notability guideline does not determine the content of articles, but only whether the topic should have its own article. Notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article. The history of this article with respect to the NFF statement shows that on 31 March 2017 Stickee said "Statements by organisations: this is pretty much a COPYVIO. It'll need to be reworded into our own words". In other words Stickee then accepted that the statement was suitable for inclusion in the article. I answered this by saying on 2 April 2017, "With respect, not COPYVIO but fair use of a submission to government" and the NFF statement extracts were then continued without any further objection from Stickee until now. It appears that Stickee has misapplied the notability policy. Antihypocritic (talk) 07:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As stated by WP:DUE (linked in your quote), it's republishing in reliable sources (aka notability) that's makes an item worthy for inclusion in an article. Stickee (talk) 10:28, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

The first criteria to note is that Wikipedia policies are in pari materia, that is, they are intended to be read and applied in conjunction. In attempting to paraphrase the WP:DUE policy, Stickee says; “its republishing in reliable sources (aka notability) that's makes an item worthy for inclusion in an article”. That may be the case in the positive sense but to rely on notability to exclude an item when the principle policy on notability states that “Notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article” is perverse. In this last comment Stickee is again endeavoring to prevent the statements of the NFF from being included in the appropriate section of the article although as I showed above they are within the permitted use of a primary source. Stickee now claims the due weight policy should exclude the NFF statements but as I mentioned above the fact remains that from 2 April until 9 December 2017 Stickee accepted that the item was worthy of inclusion.Antihypocritic (talk) 02:01, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * "Stickee accepted that the item was worthy of inclusion." No, I never did. Stickee (talk) 07:20, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

On 31 March 2017 you objected to the inclusion of the item and on 2 April 2017 I answered your objection. From that date on until now you acquiesced in the items inclusion. Granted this is not the same as you making an outright statement that you accepted the item but you were a continuing editor of this article and you did not raise any further objections although you were otherwise constant in your vigilance of the article. I can only therefore assume that it did not occur to you to raise the worthiness of the item for inclusion, ergo you accepted it as worthy.Antihypocritic (talk) 08:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your effort to read my mind. However, not noticing something does not mean I agree with it or "accept it as worthy". Stickee (talk) 14:03, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your appreciation of my mind reading efforts. If you missed the inclusion, you are of course correct when you state, “not noticing something does not mean I agree with it or "accept it as worthy"”. But on 31 March 2017 you did notice it and said, “this is pretty much a COPYVIO. It'll need to be reworded into our own words”. That is, you then positively agreed it was worthy of inclusion but in a reworded form and that was only to avoid what you thought was COPYVIO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antihypocritic (talk • contribs) 07:23, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I never said it was worthy of inclusion. But that's a pointless thing to argue anyway. Focus on policy-based reasoning for inclusion. Stickee (talk) 05:05, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Improvement of Article / Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics/Gun politics
This article should be improved, see WikiProject_Politics/Gun_politics. Some proposals are already here on this disc some may come additionally. --Ｔｏｍ (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Literature

 * Beattie, Stewart K.; A Gunsmith's Notebook on Port Arthur (E-Book with 400 Pages)
 * Chapman, Simon; Over Our Dead Bodies: Port Arthur and Australia's Fight for Gun Control, ISBN 978-1-74332-031-0 (275 Pages),(read online)
 * Deckert, Antje; Sarre, Rick; The Palgrave Handbook of Australian and New Zealand Criminology, Crime and Justice, Springer, 2017, ISBN 978-3-319-55747-2  (read online) (P. 788 ff => history of gun laws development)
 * Noble, Keith Allan;MASS MURDER Official Killing in Tasmania, Australia (E-Book with 718 Pages). At p. 29 "A TANGLED WEB OF POLICE CORRUPTION " and more Info. (2.nd Edition) ISBN 978-3-47884512-0

other Sources

 * AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT: Commonwealth Position on Firearms, Submission 8325, Canberra 1991 Oktober, 9 /, No. 15879 Cabinet Minute
 * THE PARLIAMENT OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA, House Hansard, Thursday, 9 May 1996 Page: 766 f. Gun Control ("... Denison (Mr Kerr) proposing ... The need to give full support to the Commonwealth's initiatives to secure stricter gun control ...")
 * Barbour, Bruce (NSW-Ombudsman) 2006; Review of the Firearms Amendment (Public Safety) Act 2002, Firearm and Explosive Detection Dogs
 * NSW Police, Annual Report 2012-13, Page 99 "On 6 July 2012 the Firearms Act 1996 was amended to authorise police officers to seize licences and permits that are suspended, revoked or otherwise cease to be in force. Before the amendments, police only had the power to seize a person’s firearms. " source: online-PDF
 * THE PARLIAMENT OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA, HVP No 43 - 27 March 2017, Federation Chamber  ILLEGAL FIREARMS TRAFFICKING (" Mr Goodenough ... this House: notes that while Australia has some of the strongest firearm controls in the world, illicit firearms continue to remain a threat to community safety ...")

The link number 56 to a pdf is no longer available. https://aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr02/mr02.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.30.3.0 (talk) 06:28, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

* signing area for additions to calm the bot :-p --Ｔｏｍ (talk) 11:55, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Christchurch shooting and removal of McPhedran et al study
, even though it is no longer true that NZ has had no mass shootings, we should not remove the McPhedran paper as it is still valid as of the time of publication. I've added a note that the claim of no mass shootings is no longer correct as of 2019 but that may not actually invalidate the conclusions of the paper. We would need to find a RS that says the paper is no longer valid before removal. Springee (talk) 03:38, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, yes I agree that at the time of publication this research was valid. However WP:10 year test is also important. The intent of this research section is to help inform the reader via wp:rs while maintaining a wp:npov of the analysis of data. I removed wp:bold this statement, as it may give the reader a misinformed view regarding the comparison of gun laws between the 2 countries. Your suggestion that we need to wait until a new RS that discounts this research is written is not something I would expect to see any time soon. Other relevant wp:rs such as NZ action on changing gun laws is a clear example of refuting the McPhedran paper. If the conclusions in McPhedran's paper stood the test of time the NZ gun law changes would not be happening. This discussion would be better suited to the Talk:Overview of gun laws by nation as comparison between countries is presented in that article. This article is about the Australian Gun Laws. Regards CamV8 (talk) 08:06, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

 * CamV8, I don't agree with the view that this isn't specifically relevant to Australian gun laws since the paper was comparing the two countries in context of the laws Australia implemented vs those in NZ. I also don't agree with refuting as justification for removal.  In cases like this its common to have research papers on both sides.  However, I think your 10 year test argument is harder for me to discount.  Again I lean towards keep it as it doesn't harm the reader to have access but also keep the context of NZ has since had a shooting.  Since I haven't read the paper I can't say how that single event changes the data in the paper.  This is also an important point.  For a while Norway lead the first world in terms of mass shooting casualties per capita, significantly exceeding the US, due to just one even.  If I recall the study used a 10 year window.  Once the Norway shooting was "too old" Norway once again dropped way down on the list.  Anyway, I think you have made a good argument in terms of the 10 year test but I would rather qualify the scope of the study vs just remove it.  Should we ping some other active editors on this page for a 3rd opinion? Regards to you as well, Springee (talk) 12:44, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

 * Springee, lets stick to the question of whether the McPhedran paper is worthy (in the context of this article) of representing the position its conclusion states. I find this discussion a little perplexing as you have stated you haven't read the paper. Other incidents in other countries such as Norway have no context in this discussion on this article. As suggested earlier, if you would like the discuss the comparison of Australian gun laws with other countries then this discussion would be better suited to the Talk:Overview of gun laws by nation as comparison between countries is presented in that article. While I understand your point, I think this paper is no longer relevant to this article. Cheers CamV8 (talk) 14:40, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

 * I haven't tried to find the paper and there isn't a direct link. However, the paper is titled "Mass shootings in Australia and New Zealand: A descriptive study of incidence" so it seems relevant to this article.  I would presume based on the Wikipedia text that the article was assessing the effectiveness of Australia's legal changes by comparing them to NZ's laws.  I will try to get a copy of the paper to get more context for the conclusion stated in the Wiki article.  Have you had a chance to read it?  Springee (talk) 15:00, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Research section in chronological order
Presenting the research section in chronological order helps the reader understand the progression of research prepared by the academic community. Rolling this up by author presents this research as a series of wp:primary papers with wp:or conclusions making a wp:synth situation which leads the reader away from wp:npov. I disagree with your edits rolled up by author on this basis and will reordered these papers by date. CamV8 (talk) 10:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Also, as mentioned above many of the research papers cited in this section are wp:Primary papers with wp:or author conclusions with no wp:secondary cites. Obviously we should be citing wp:secondary wp:rs. With many examples of this problem in this section it is not ideal and needs a cleanup. I will continue to challenge content that is not adequately cited in an effort to improve this article. I welcome some help. CamV8 (talk) 10:08, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

 * , you should ping the editor who made those changes so they can see the discussion here. Springee (talk) 10:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, done. plus new section may help discussion.CamV8 (talk) 11:25, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Definitely disagree. WP:WEIGHT states that conclusions need to given weight in accordance with their prominence. Giving triple the paragraphs in an article because they published three times in not in accordance with policy. You can't override policy because it "helpds the reader understand" better. Stickee (talk) 00:56, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

 * gday @Stickee, I see your point, I was looking for a way of editing the research section that didn't read like a list of wp:pov statements on both sides. However as you have pointed out this leads to difficulties balancing wp:weight. For example how many McPhedran articles should be cited, she has published many more articles. Can I expect a complete list in this section? Are these articles considered rs or should we be citing other secondary rs sources?

 * Another example is the statement from McPhedran regarding significant expenditure on the gun the buyback may not have had any impact on youth suicide. This is a compelling statement however there was no research done in the cited article by McPhedran on whether government expenditure priorities were impacted by the 'buyback'. I fail to see how this statement can be supported. I interpret this statement as WP:OR by the author and as such not meeting wiki policies.CamV8 (talk) 10:53, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Resolving an apparent inconsistency in the text.
Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran, researchers with the International Coalition for Women in Shooting and Hunting (WiSH) made several studies on the NFA. Their 2006 study found an effect on suicide but not on homicide though in later studies they questioned this. Hence my edit, which I hope clarifies the text. Michael Glass (talk) 23:35, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

National Shooting Council mention removed as non-notable
The paragraph discussing the National Shooting Council was advertising copy supported by a single primary source. It would have required rewriting in entirety to fit encyclopaedic tone, but as a non notable organisation (the online presence is limited to their facebook page, website, and adverts), I considered the most expedient solution deletion of the offending paragraph. PrimalBlueWolf (talk) 08:30, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Lede needs work
The lede of the article is a little short and doesnt introduce the article as well as it perhaps could. This could use some expanding, particularly the 4th sentence but in general perhaps it could use a small rewrite/expansion? PrimalBlueWolf (talk) 03:10, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Also, the second sentence mentions several high-profile killing sprees. What high-profile killing sprees are these? I don’t recall them. Did they really happen, perhaps they did not gain much media attention at the time, or are we assuming there must have been some? 120.153.17.94 (talk) 18:45, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Posted very much in error. Please delete. 2001:8003:7C10:DB01:AC17:77E6:AB48:7B6 (talk) 18:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

shouldn't the hyperlink when referring to .45 caliber after mentioning single action shooting competition link to 45 long colt?
I think it would make more sense that way, as 45 ACP is generally used in auto-loaders and the only revolver I can recall off the top of my head chambered in it (m1917) was double action. GastroGaming (talk) 21:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gun laws of Australia


text:
Wikipedia:Nuttall Encyclopedia topics/1

From the Nuttall encyclopedia (Project Gutenberg):

All entries here have been completed.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikipedia:Nuttall Encyclopedia topics/1


text:
Talk:Vasile Lupu

Untitled
He was not Bulgarian, but he had Albanian ancestry, as it was written by Polish chronicles. So says:
 * Britannica: "Albanian in origin"
 * US Departament of State: Country Studies: "a man of Albanian descent"

Bogdan | Talk 14:45, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Bogdan. Also, to those who understand Belarussian: could you please review and translate the content of the Belarussian page into English? It is filled with specific info and gives references (presumably, relevant ones). Dahn 11:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

To the unknown user (whom I assume is Bulgarian)
Mentions of ethnicity in the Middle Ages are irrelevant, unless they correspond to the perception people had at the same time. In all likelyhood, Lupu was an Ottoman subject who probably spoke Albanian at home. Not Bulgarian, and not Aromanian. Stop adding modern cliches. Dahn 18:06, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

He was Bulgarian
He was born in Bulgaria. There are two locations that are given as his potential birth place, both in Bulgaria.

He gave large portions of land to the Bulgarian Monastery of Zorgaphu. He also took the remains of Saint Petka of Turnovo to Moldova. She is a Bulgarian Saint. Her remains were kept in Constantinople and he had to fight with the Patriarch of Constantinople to take them. Saint Petka represents the Second Bulgarian Monarchy (1185-1396). Saint Petka is buried in the same Church as Vasile Lupu and his family. The name of his father is Bulgarian. In Moldovan Monastery there is a golden cup written with Bulgarian. It gives the name of Vasile Lupu's father. The cup was also a gift to the Bulgarian Monastery of Zograohu. I am sorry, but there is nothing Albanian about all that.

Something interesting. His last name in Latin means "Wolf". The medieval name of Razgrad is Dausdava which means "Town of Wolfs".
 * 1, He was probably born in today's Bulgaria (which would still not prevent him from not being Bulgarian, unless you follow the philosophy of one Todor Zhivkov).
 * 2.I do not know of many princes who did not give large grants to Balkan monasteries. BTW: they were all administrated by the Patriarchy (i.e.: the thing we Orthodox -Bulgarian, Romanian, Greek, and those Albanians that are- have in Istanbul). How is being a good Orthodox by his times' standards (and doing favors to a Church which was given all its scope from a Greek-speaking quarter of the Ottoman capital) the same as "being Bulgarian"? You must think I'm stupid, and am not aware that identities other than "Orthodox" existed as such in the 1600-1700s.
 * 3. The name of his father is not "Bulgarian" (which did not exist as such back then). It is Slavonic, which could be the language of the text rather than that of his father.
 * 4. Sources in his time, including those of the people he ruled, agree that he was Albanian (which, although a shaky identity as any other, is still easier to pinpoint at the time than Bulgarian is in a mass of Slavic identities all ruled by the Ottomans. Why? Well, it's because the Albanian language is a little distinct from all others...).
 * 5. The same revisionism is attempted by some Romanian nationalists, who introduce notions that he was "Aromanian". I revert those "contributions" as well.
 * Actually, his last name means "wolf" in Romanian, and I fail to see what relevance this has (unless you asume that people back then would have names on the same pattern as characters in the Lord of the Rings. Dahn 21:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 1.In the town of Iaşi is the "Trei Ierarhi Church" build by Vasile Lupu. There you can find the cup with his father's name. Nikola Kocho is a Bulgarian name. It is clear that this is not Albanian name. You have to make the difference beteen Bulgarian and Albanian names. Aspecially when you try to prove historic facts. And Bulgarian names existed ever since the creation of Bulgaria in 681. There were definatly Bulgarian names at the time, not just Slavianic.
 * Oh, yes, if you repeat the words, they become more convincing (note: this is sarcasm). How could you possibly see the supposed "difference" between Slavonic and "Bulgarian" in a person's name, and part of a text that was written in Church Slavonic, which was the official and Church language of Moldavia?! Dahn 22:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 2.In this Church there is a sign in which Vasile Lupu calls Saint Petka "our mother" who protects him. Look up Saint Petka of Turnovo and you can see how segnificant she was for Bulgaria.
 * Look, leave the interpretations aside, concentrate on other such "messages" from Orthodox rulers who want to show how Orthodox they are (not "how Bulgarian" or "how Russian" etc), and if you still cannot see why this text is meant to take precaution, then at least keep supporting these ideas without pushing the POV in here. Ok? Dahn 22:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 3.I do not know why you do not even consider the fact that he might be from a Bulgarian origin?
 * Because it is historical revisionism, one which implies that modern-day identities existed in Vasile Lupu's time, and that neutral and almost universal identities belong to the patrimony of one modern state or another (like the Greek claim to the Byzantine Empire). They are known to me as being part of Bulgarian nationalism (going all the way to the claim that Wallachia was in fact Bulgarian, as seen on Talk:Vlad III Dracula), as well as of the Romanian one (with the claim that the First Bulgarian Empire was in fact "Romanian"). Let us stop this nonsense or argue for it on sites that have not declared their purpose is objectivity. That is why. Dahn 22:00, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 1.Even if the name is simply Slavianic and not Bulgaria in particular like you says means even more that Vasile Lupu was NOT Albanian. This is because Albania is not a Slavianic nation. Albanian names do not have Slavianic roots. So even if you are right and this is Slavianic name means that Vasile Lupu is NOT Albanian.
 * You are discarding the obvious fact that Slavonic was the language of circulation with all Orthodox (replacing and then partly replaced by Greek). It was so in Wallachia and Moldavia, it was so in what is now Northern Albania. It was the second, first, or third language for most educated Orthodox, wherever they might have been from. Of course, to answer you using the same annoying perspective enforced by modernity, Albanians and Romanians are no longer connected to the language today (neither is Orthodoxy itself); but placing clear-cut borders in the period is an absurd, ubuesque task. Dahn 22:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * However, Vasile Lupu was not from Northern Albania. He was from one of the most significant places for Bulgaria. The first two capitals of Bulgaria were located there. Open a map and see the distance between Northern Bulgaria and Northern Albania. They are far from eachother.
 * Again: I had used Northern Albania to point out that even a territory which was arguably largely inhabited by Albanian-speakers had Slavonic and/or Greek as the language of preference. Yes, he was born someplace else, and I am not to judge what he was: but contemporary sources indicate that he was considered Albanian. I had asked you if you follow Zhivkov's philosophy, thus meaning to state my amaizement that you do not seem able to conceive that not all persons in what is now Bulgaria are "Bulgarian" or "Bulgarian-speakers". Newsflash: people travel, and they do not even count as "diaspora" if they move INSIDE the same state (i.e. and ahem: THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE). Dahn 23:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 2.I wonder why he chose this Saint and not another one. Vasile Lupu had a lot of difficulties taking the remains from Constantinople. The Patriarch really wanted Saint Petka to saty there. At the end Vasile Lupu prevailed. There are so many other Romanian, Greek, Serbian and Russian Saint. Why this Bulgarian Saint? Another Saint would have been more easily negotiated to be taken to Moldova or no negotiation needed at all.
 * First of all: and what if you wonder? Secondly: saints were Orthodox saints back then (not Bulgarian Orthodox etc); "trafficking" in holy relics was a European-wide enterprise (with strict confessional divides, of course), and it was a good means to reflect wealth and prestige. Otherwise, why would the Patriarchy engage in such a skirmish with Lupu? Do you also conclude that all the Orthodox Church was Bulgarian because its Patriarchy liked the same saint? (If you do, please don't answer.)

 * Believe me she was known all around the Balkan Peninsola as a Bulgarian Saint. She was kept in the Bulgarian capital of Turnovo between 1185 and 1396. This was the wish of the Bulgarian Tsar's. After Bulgaria fell under the Ottoman Empire Saint Petka was taken to Belgrad in odred to preserve her. Everyone there know who she was and about her Bulgarian roots. The Patriarch of Constantinople wanted her in Constantinople. She has never been simply an Orthodox Saint. In Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece she was known and is still known as a Bulgarian Saint.
 * What you mean to say is that she is known as a "Bulgarian saint" today. Contribution for such separations? Well, let us see: the emergence of distinct nations, the Balkan Wars and WWI. as well the creation of self-administrating Churches in front of a single Patriarchy. You yourself pointed out that the Patriarch invested in her image back then. Dahn 23:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 3.The fact that his Bulgarian root are not widely popular does not mean that he was not Bulgarian. John Atanasoff invented the computer. His father was Bulgarian, but no one knows about his Bulgarian roots.
 * Perhaps I am not understood when I say and repeat that it is hard to trace any sort of ethnicity back then (especially with a Byzantine universal heritage in a universal Ottoman Empire and with a prince having a claim to Orthodox splendor). In the event: contemporary sources indicate that he was perceived as Albanian. This may also be a bit too much than is needed, but I can assure you his "Bulgarian identity" is based on speculation and re-invention of the past. Dahn 22:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes they might be speculations. However, these speculations are done by the Romanian historians and German historian. A Bulgarian historian had NEVER claimed that Vasile Lupu was Bulgarian. The Bulgarian historians simply fallow what the Romania and German historian are stating.
 * No. Drawing such conclusions is, for the fifth time, against historiography and neutrality. Any respectable historian, from Nicolae Iorga to Maria Todorova, have shown that identity back then was fluid, and that Orthodoxy encouraged a claim to Byzantine universality (as in "universal Empire"). This is why I do not accept the modern perspective which aims to say "this guy is mine, that guy is yours", when both "me" and "you" were not even viable options back then. Dahn 23:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 1.Do not tell me what I ment. Saint Petka of Turnovo is known as a Bulgarian Saint ever since before 1185. Everyone in the Balkan Peninsola knew that she was Bulgarian. Her remains were been in Turnovo, Belgrad and Constantinople. She was known as the Saint of the Bulgarian Tsar's. She was of a big importance for the Bulgarian Church. The Bulgarian Church was established in 865. The Bulgarian Church was not established sfter World War II. It has centuries of traditions. It is safe to say that Vasile Lupu also knew that.
 * The sole reason why there was a semblance of a "Bulgarian Church" instead of the one-Orthodox Church was that the hierarchy in the Bulgarian Empire fell under the spell of the Bulgarian rulers rather than the usual subservience to the ruler in Constantinople. This was not only long over by then, it was also a mere facet of the will of early Bulgarians to become the new Empire (hence the title tsar, hence etc). Now, they had almost got their way after 1214, but that is besides the point. Again: you are contradicting yourself by calling for localism and then pointing out that the Patriarch treasured the supposed "Bulgarian" saint, as well as (I am led to believe) the town of Belgrade. Dahn 00:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You do not have any idea about the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. You think you know but you have no idea. Chech List of Patriarchs of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church to find the leaders of the Bulgarian Church. There were not always Petriarchs. The Bulgarian Church is old with many traditions. The Bulgarian Monarech is called Tsar because of the Patriarch of Constantinople. Simeon I was crowned Tsar by the Patriarch of Constantinople outside of Constantinople. Simeon I and his army were at the gates of Constantinople and in order to make them leave he was created Tsar. Here is a lesson in Bulgarian history for you. You show that your knowledge in Bulgarian history is limited.
 * How do you believe this to be proof, and what sort of proof? Lookey, friend: 700 years of an Ohrid Archbishopric (i.e.: not a Patriarchy, but a sudivision of Constantinople), which were coincident with his life (amongst numerous lives). The point about the title "tsar" was that it reflected the Bulgarian ambition to replace the original Empire (why were they at the gates of Constantinople to begin with?). How does this deny anything of what I have said? Dahn 10:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 2.There are a lot of different people living in Bulgaria. Currently 3 of the Ministers in the Bulgarian Government are Musliams with Turkish roots. There are a lot of Musliams in the region of Razgrad. I would not be surprized if he was Albanian. However, if he was Albanian from this region then he was Muslianm. And there is no evidence of Vasile Lupu being Musiam.
 * And, of course, it is mandatory that this was also the case 400 years ago... If this is an exact science, how come Lupu ended up as ruler of Moldavia, which was ZERO Albanian/Muslim/Bulgarian population? Could it be, Lord help me, because people would use their legs and drive vehicles to places of opportunity? Oh, forgive me, I'm wrong: the Balkans are anything but a place of eternal migrations, be they large-scale or small-scale (note: this was sarcasm). Dahn 00:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I just thought of an anology: Albania itself was in revolt against the Porte in the 1500s, led by a guy who became a Chrisitian hero or thereabouts. At the moment I am writing this, the country is 70% Muslim. Does this, in your opinion, signify a consistency in demographics that would allow you to indicate that articles may be changed according to "what surprises/does not surprise you"? Dahn 00:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You do not know anything about Bulgaria and its people. You are just speculating and you are beliving yourself. There have never been Albanians in Bulgaria - NEVER. If Vasile Lupu was Albanian then he and his family were the only once. There were never Albanian minority in this or any part of Bulgaria. I am Bulgarian I know. There are Turkish, Armenian and other minoritis in Bulgaria but no Albanians. Vasile Lupu was the only one. Check the historical sources.
 * There has not been one single Albanian-speaker in what is now Bulgaria, not ever? Because, although they were moving inside the same Empire, and although Christian Albanians hardly saw a difference other than linguistical between them and other Christians, the moment they set foot on the soil of what was no longer Bulgaria, they burst into flames or turned into salt? When you were pushing all that info about were he had come from, did you bother to check were the name of the village comes from? Arbanasi is a variant of Albanians (although I may agree that did not mean the population was necessarilly significantly Albanian, I have to point out that this indicates it was possible for an Albanian to live in another region of the Ottoman Empire). Do not use modernity to reflect ethnical realities of 400 years ago or so (I think I am repeating myself): check out the article for Greeks in Romania, and note the drop in significance without Romanian violence or self-exile. The same goes for the Albanian population everywhere: it was never important but always concentrated, largely male, since they were employed as military, and it dissapeared everewhere with the advent of national armies. If you look at the trading of officialdom population, the same reality stands out (as it did with the boyars in Moldavia during Lupu's time - read the first part of the article, as it did with the Phanariotes, as it did with the Muslim Aromani etc). All of this because contemporary sources (which have primacy) argue that he was Albanian. And, again, no matter what the Albanian population was in the Ottoman provinces that are nowadays Bulgaria (a few thousands or so Albanians, probably), the number was closer to digits than numbers in Moldavia: and yet, Vasile Lupu was a ruler in the latter country! Dahn 10:47, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

 * What would you say to kenyan Obama ruling the USA,a very non-Kenyan country?--199.192.239.152 (talk) 23:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

 * I just read something interesting. Apparently there have never been a minority living in this village. This village was always populated with only Bulgarians. Not Albanians or any other. Also when the mosque was build in Razgrad there was material taken from this village. The Sultan of the Ottoman Empire issued a ferman declaring that no Turkish Muslim builder working on the mosque will spend the night there. So it is impossible for his to be Albanian, because there were never Albanians in this village. I found this in Wikipedia.
 * Regardless of such Bulgarian nationalist cliches whch have passed into Wikipedia (including, again, the notion that Bulgarian identity oversaw the relevant Christian one), you are making no sense. The ferman in question refers to Muslims, and many (much more than today) of Albanians were Orthodox or Catholic (those few present in today's Bulgaria would've been Orthodox, as Lupu's family was); the name of the village indicates migration; at any point, the Albanian population was more relevant in what is today Bulgaria than it ever was in Moldavia, and yet Lupu ruled the latter; it is illogical and pompous to assume that no Albanian could've been living in an Ottoman-ruled Bulgaria, especially when you are thus brushing aside contemporary references. For the love of God, this has gone far enough. Speculation belongs on sites that allow for it. Are we clear? Dahn 11:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

You are funny. You have no idea if there were Albanians living in Bulgaria. You are simply speculating that there were Albanians. This speculation you are making on the fact that they migrated. Give me a source in which it ways that there were Albanians in Bulgaria and in particular in North-Eastern Bulgaria. Give me names of sites, books or statistics. Do not give me your opinion. It is a historical fact that in this particular village there were only Bulgarians. Why are you stating your speculations as a fact. As I can see you do not know anything about the Bulgarian Church or the Bulgarian State. Then why are you trying to convince me of something that it is not true. Believe me when I say that I have spend many, many, many days, weeks, months and years studding Bulgaria. I am familiar with the facts. There were never Christian Albanians there, it is ridicules to say that and it makes you look untrustworthy. Also the Bulgarian State (founded in 681) and the Bulgarian Church (founded in 865) are one of the oldest in Europe. You are assuming that since the Romanian Church was founded after in the XIX century and until then was part of the greater Orthodox Church the Bulgarian was the same. You are wrong. You are also wrong about the Bulgarian Rulers. There are much about Bulgaria you do not know. First you need to learn and then argue. I have studied a lot about the Bulgarian history and that is why I can argue. You assume the case between Bulgaria and Romania was the same, but it is not. Bulgaria had its own Saint recognized by both Rome and Constantinople before Romania was even a country. This is the bad thing about the internet, even people who have no knowledge can argue about something they do not know. Learn about Bulgaria before you make unfounded statements.
 * I have stated my reasons to death. Let me try again, so perhaps you will notice them this time around. If contemporary sources say that he was an Albanian, I have to include reference as is. The issue is not whether a significant community of Albanians was living on the territory of the former Bulgarian state (although some communities might have been residing there - hence the name of the village - with the same possibility of no longer being present that they have had in other parts of the Balkans), but of whether this one person could've been Albanian. Not going either way, but this is what the sources indicate! As to the "independence" of Bulgaria under Ottoman rule and that of the "Bulgarian" Church under the taking over of Ohrid as a subdivision of the Patriarchy, allow me to dismiss them altogether. Your personal theories belong on other sites. Post them there. Dahn 18:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * And as for Vasile Lupu being Albanian, well as a historian lover I found many and I meen many times when ignorant people wrote about their contemporeries. They would write wrong and as time go by other sources would appear and it would prove them wrong. For what I know there were never Albanians there. At least not recorded. You are being ignorant again. Arbanassi is a Bulgarian name not Albanian. In order to prove your point you making stuff up. There are many villages with this name all over Bulgaria. Does this meen that all these villages had Albanians in them? It would seam so according to you. No one is talking about Bulgarian independence under the Ottoman Empire. The fact that you do not want to believe it it does not make it so. You really need to learn some basic Bulgarian history in order not to look ignorate. Bulgaria was founded in 680 as an independent state and it was officially recognized as one by the Emperor of Byzantium in 681. However in 1018 Bulgaria was conquered and added to the Byzantium Empire. It was in 1185 when Peter and Asen, two brother, declared the Bulgarian independence from the Byzantium Empire with a revelation. And so from 1185 to 1396 Bulgaria was independent nation again. However, in 1396 the Ottoman Empire seized Bulgaria and added it to its territory. It was in 1878 when Bulgaria was liberated and once again independent. So as you can see Bulgaria was not independent from 1018-1185 under Byzantium and from 1396-1878 under Ottoman Empire. When Bulgaria fell under the Byzantium Empire in 1018 it was no longer an independent state and the Bulgaria Patriarchy was abolished and it was reduced to the Archbishopric of Ohrid. All this is documented and there are proves in libraries all over Europe and the world. Sorry if the facts are not in your liking. This is all documented and proven. It is hard to believe that your neighbor has all that hisytory?
 * Whatever. Really, whatever. It seems that you are not capable of seeing beyond cliches particular to certain nationalism. I would advise you to at least pretend you are reading replies (lest I be allowed to assume you have trouble understanding them). Bottom line: if sources would agree he was Bulgarian, you would have a point. They do not, and one of the reasons for that probably was that the Bulgarian ethos was largely ignored by then (people did not look into the future to see the creation or, as you would have it, recreation of a Bulgarian state; also, as you have constantly been forced to admit, a "Bulgarian ethos" was by then largely indiscernable from the Slavic one). I know your cliches only too well (about the Ohrid Archbishopric "being a Bulgarian ex-Patriarchy", about a highly symbolic Bulgarian identity inside the Ottoman Empire being somehow spared from Ottoman policies and trends, about direct continuity between the tsarates and post-1878, etc); they match lumpenproletarian cliches in my fair country, and both series should have been pushed out of rational discourse by 1890. And, of course, you would have the audacity to pretend that whomever disagrees with you does not know your history. Up until now I have more than reasonably accounted for my perspective, and you do not seem to be willing to answer to points raised. Please, don't consider the fact that I am by now too jaded to reply as an indication that you are somehow proven right. Nay: I will simply be reverting persistence on this topic in the article per Vandalism. Dahn 21:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not know: should cry or should I laugh. The facts that I have stated above are historically proven over and over again. They have been proven with documents (one example: a document that comes from the court of Otto I, Holy Roman Emperor) and have been agreed by world renounced historians. These facts were not created by Bulgaria as you probably think. There are many Byzantium and other European historians who had documented these events. And Bulgaria is a country populated with Bulgarians. As I can see you keep sating that there are Slavs living there and somehow you are left with the impression that I agree. The Bulgarians were not indescribable by the Slavs. There were Slavs living there when the Bulgarians first move there, however they were absorbed by the Bulgarian population. There are other nationalities too, however the majority are Bulgarians. The Bulgarians did not despair with the coming of the Ottoman Empire. Bulgaria was forced under Ottoman rule, however if you study history you will see that every a couple of decades there was a Bulgarian revolution - unfortunately unsuccessful. I know that I would never change your mind so I would stop. However, why don’t you look in a dictionary and see when was the first time in history “Bulgaria” was mentioned.
 * He was a Moldavian of Albanian ethnicity. Born in a ethnic Albanian village in modern Bulgaria. I added some sources to qualify that. Strangearticles (talk) 20:50, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Origin
It is now clear that "Albanian origin" is not the proper description of Lupu. His father may have had Albanian origin, sources saying that he came from Macedonia. Now that there is information on his father, I think that "Arbanasi, Bulgaria" is the first thing to be removed, until further clarification.--Z oupan 15:27, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Added all significant views.--Z oupan 21:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Greek-Orthodox identity
It seems that Lupu did have a Greek-Orthodox identity.--Z oupan 21:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Original name
His original name was Lupu Coci, and he later adopted Basil (Vasile).--Z oupan 21:18, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You are joking, aren't you? His original name doesn't reject his ethnic origin and identity. Asdreni's original name was Alexander Stavre Drenova, according to you Asdreni hadn't an identity?Olmcx (talk) 11:25, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? I just put forward what his original name was, breathe.--Z oupan 16:05, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Vasile Lupu


text:
Hunt's Pier

Hunt's Pier was an amusement pier located along the Wildwood, New Jersey, boardwalk from 1957 through 1985. Over its nearly 30 years in operation, Hunt's was home to many classic dark rides, roller coasters, and other attractions.

History
Hunt's Pier dates back to the early 1900s when it was known as Ocean Pier, the first major pier on the boardwalk. Home to ballroom dancing and musical acts, Ocean Pier was purchased by William Hunt in 1935 and converted to an amusement park with rides, including a Ferris wheel, a roller coaster, and a dark ride.

On Christmas Day 1943, Ocean Pier burned down. Hunt built a new, all-concrete pier in its place. On May 30, 1957, Memorial Day, the revamped Hunt's Pier opened. The amusement park began with only four rides, though it boasted 10 rides by the time of its grand opening on June 21, 1957.

In 1985 Hunt's Pier was sold and continued operation until the end of the 1988 season when many of the "Super Custom" rides and attractions were demolished. Under the ownership of Conklin Shows it reopened in 1989 as Conko's Party Pier, highlighted by a new steel roller coaster called Kamikaze. This latest incarnation of the pier was short-lived and following another rebranding as The New Hunt's Pier, the operation went bankrupt and closed following the 1992 season. The Kamikaze was sold and currently operates under the name Blue Hawk at Six Flags Over Georgia.

The Cantonoso family, owners of Steel Pier in Atlantic City, bought the defunct pier in 1995. By the summer of 1996, the pier reopened as Dinosaur Beach and featured dinosaur-themed rides and prehistoric motifs added to the existing Golden Nugget Mine Ride and Log Flume. In addition to a water coaster and an amphitheatre, Dinosaur Beach debuted the country's first spinning wild mouse in 1997. Dinosaur Beach closed following the 1998 season and over the next few years most of the remaining rides and attractions were removed.

Present day
The pier is currently owned by Morey's Piers and is used to house maintenance equipment and the boardwalk tram cars. A grill, beach shop, and Adventure Maze are now on the front of the pier. Morey's Piers previously announced plans to construct a wooden roller coaster crossing from Surfside Pier to Hunt's Pier, but as of 2022 no announcement or progress has been made.

Legacy
Hunt's Pier featured many "Super Custom" rides and attractions, including a classic wooden roller coaster called the Flyer which appears in the film Birdy, indoor rides such as Keystone Kops and Whacky Shack, and an outdoor boat ride called Jungleland. For many years, The Golden Nugget had the honor of being the oldest ride on the Wildwood Boardwalk still surviving in its original form and location. The Golden Nugget originally opened in July 1960 on the newly constructed oceanside section of Hunt's Pier. The Golden Nugget was built three stories high with the top floor designed to imitate a mine car ride through the desert. The classic coaster ride was specially constructed for Hunt's Pier by the Philadelphia Toboggan Company and was engineered by John Allen. It was removed in 2009, and a ceremony commemorating the ride was held in January of that year in anticipation of its removal.

In early 2009, Knoebels Amusement Resort entered into agreement with Morey's Piers to acquire the trains, tracks, and ancillary mechanical equipment from the Golden Nugget ride. The equipment was moved to Pennsylvania in early 2009 for a planned reproduction of the Golden Nugget at its Elysburg, Pennsylvania, park. Renamed Black Diamond, it officially opened in October 2011. The original stunts and gags included in the ride were not part of the sale and have been retained by Morey's Piers for usage elsewhere.

The Wildwood Historical Society/George F. Boyer Museum currently houses numerous artifacts from Hunt's Pier including Keystone Kops characters, ride and attraction models, and hundreds of photographs. Authors Rob Ascough and Al Alven, working in partnership with the museum, published Images Of America: Hunt's Pier in 2011 and remains a vital source for information covering the history of the pier from its Ocean Pier origins to the years following Dinosaur Beach. Near Historic Cold Spring Village, Hunt's abandoned storage and maintenance once housed signs and parts of former rides including boats for the Log Flume, trains for the Flyer that are currently under restoration, the Paul Bunyan figure, and letters from the Hunt's Pier Skyline Golf sign that stood opposite the pier atop the Ocean Theater. As of 2021, the site has been cleared and now houses a solar farm.

In addition to the aforementioned Golden Nugget and Kamikaze having found new homes at Knoebels Amusement Resort and Six Flags Over Georgia, the former Log Flume currently operates as The Boji Falls Log Ride at Arnolds Park in Iowa, and the Crazy Mouse operated on Steel Pier in Atlantic City from 1999 to 2021 till it was replaced by a similar model by a different manufacturer.

title: Hunt's Pier


text:
Adrenergic agonist

An adrenergic agonist is a drug that stimulates a response from the adrenergic receptors. The five main categories of adrenergic receptors are: α1, α2, β1, β2, and β3, although there are more subtypes, and agonists vary in specificity between these receptors, and may be classified respectively. However, there are also other mechanisms of adrenergic agonism. Epinephrine and norepinephrine are endogenous and broad-spectrum. More selective agonists are more useful in pharmacology.

An  agent is a drug, or other substance, which has effects similar to, or the same as, epinephrine (adrenaline). Thus, it is a kind of sympathomimetic agent. Alternatively, it may refer to something which is susceptible to epinephrine, or similar substances, such as a biological receptor (specifically, the adrenergic receptors).

Receptors
Directly acting adrenergic agonists act on adrenergic receptors. All adrenergic receptors are G-protein coupled, activating signal transduction pathways. The G-protein receptor can affect the function of adenylate cyclase or phospholipase C, an agonist of the receptor will upregulate the effects on the downstream pathway (it will not necessarily upregulate the pathway itself).

The receptors are broadly grouped into α and β receptors. There are two subclasses of α-receptor, α1 and α2 which are further subdivided into α1A, α1B, α1D, α2A, α2B and α2C. The α2C receptor has been reclassed from α1C, due to its greater homology with the α2 class, giving rise to the somewhat confusing nomenclature. The β receptors are divided into β1, β2 and β3. The receptors are classed physiologically, though pharmacological selectivity for receptor subtypes exists and is important in the clinical application of adrenergic agonists (and, indeed, antagonists).

From an overall perspective, α1 receptors activate phospholipase C (via Gq), increasing the activity of protein kinase C (PKC); α2 receptors inhibit adenylate cyclase (via Gi), decreasing the activity of protein kinase A (PKA); β receptors activate adenylate cyclase (via Gs), thus increasing the activity of PKA. Agonists of each class of receptor elicit these downstream responses.

Uptake and storage
Indirectly acting adrenergic agonists affect the uptake and storage mechanisms involved in adrenergic signalling.

Two uptake mechanisms exist for terminating the action of adrenergic catecholamines - uptake 1 and uptake 2. Uptake 1 occurs at the presynaptic nerve terminal to remove the neurotransmitter from the synapse. Uptake 2 occurs at postsynaptic and peripheral cells to prevent the neurotransmitter from diffusing laterally.

There is also enzymatic degradation of the catecholamines by two main enzymes — monoamine oxidase and catechol-o-methyl transferase. Respectively, these enzymes oxidise monoamines (including catecholamines) and methylate the hydroxyl groups of the phenyl moiety of catecholamines. These enzymes can be targeted pharmacologically. Inhibitors of these enzymes act as indirect agonists of adrenergic receptors as they prolong the action of catecholamines at the receptors.

Structure–activity relationship
In general, a primary or secondary aliphatic amine separated by 2 carbons from a substituted benzene ring is minimally required for high agonist activity.

Mechanisms
A great number of drugs are available which can affect adrenergic receptors. Other drugs affect the uptake and storage mechanisms of adrenergic catecholamines, prolonging their action. The following headings provide some useful examples to illustrate the various ways in which drugs can enhance the effects of adrenergic receptors.

Direct action
These drugs act directly on one or more adrenergic receptors. According to receptor selectivity they are two types:

 * Non-selective: drugs act on one or more receptors; these are:
 * Adrenaline (almost all adrenergic receptors).
 * Noradrenaline (acts on α1, α2, β1).
 * Isoprenaline (acts on β1, β2, β3).
 * Dopamine (acts on α1, α2, β1, D1, D2).
 * Selective: drugs which act on a single receptor only; these are further classified into α selective & β selective.
 * α1 selective: phenylephrine, methoxamine, midodrine, oxymetazoline.
 * α2 selective: α-methyldopa, clonidine, brimonidine, dexmedetomidine.
 * β1 selective: dobutamine.
 * β2 selective: salbutamol/albuterol, terbutaline, salmeterol, formoterol, pirbuterol, clenbuterol.

Indirect action
These are agents that increase neurotransmission in endogenous chemicals, namely epinephrine and norepinephrine. The most common mechanisms of action includes competitive and non-competitive reuptake inhibition and releasing agents. Examples include methylphenidate, atomoxetine, cocaine, and some amphetamine based stimulants such as 4-hydroxyamphetamine.

Mixed action

 * Ephedrine
 * Pseudoephedrine

title: Adrenergic agonist


text:
User:Mloclam901

Joined Feb 2005.

title: User:Mloclam901


text:
Absyrtus

In Greek mythology, Absyrtus (Ancient Greek: Ἄψυρτος) or Apsyrtus was a Colchian prince and the younger brother of Medea. He was involved in Jason's escape with the golden fleece from Colchis

The Absyrtides were named after him.

Family
Absyrtus was the son of Aeëtes, king of Colchis and a brother of Medea and Chalciope. His mother is variously given: Hyginus calls her Ipsia, Hesiod and the Bibliotheca call her Idyia, Apollonius calls her Asterodeia, a Caucasian Oceanid and others Hecate, the Nereid Neaera or Eurylyte.

A tradition followed by Pacuvius, Justin, and Diodorus provided Aegialeus as the name of the son of Aeëtes who was murdered by Medea. Absyrtus was also called Phaethon by the sons of the Colchians because he outshone all the youths.

Early years
As a descendant of Helios, Apsyrtus grew into a radiant young man and lived in his own palace, next to the loftiest building where his father, the queen and his other sisters dwelt. This can be explained by the fact that Apsyrtus was born to a Caucasian nymph, Asterodeia, to Aeetes before he made Eidyia, the youngest daughter of Tethys and Oceanus, his wedded wife. Because his grandfather, Helios, had once betrayed Ares to the other gods for being the lover of the beautiful Aphrodite, the love-goddess was extremely hostile to the descendants of Helios and none of them would experience a happy love life.

Civil war
Later on, a civil war in Colchis occurred because the brother of Aeëtes, Perses, came with a Scythian army to the country in order to unseat the king out off his throne. Aeetes was aided by the Argonauts because he vowed to give the Golden Fleece to Jason in return of the favor for the incoming fight.

During the battle, Apsyrtus went to the front line and wore a beautiful golden armor. He drove the golden cart of his grandfather Helios while his golden shield reflected the rays of the sun. He had a quivering spear and a threatening, gleaming helm that no one of the common people could gaze at without getting pain in their eyes. When he pursued his opponents in battle, they fled from fear and he ran over them with his horses. Groaning, the trampled warriors remained in the dust and wondered anxiously what had happened to them. Finally, Aeetes with the help of the Minyans won the war and managed to chase away his brother.

Unexpected departure
When Medea fled with Jason, she took her brother Absyrtus with her, and when she was nearly overtaken by her father, she murdered her brother, cut his body into pieces and strewed them on the road, so that her father might thus be delayed by gathering the limbs of his child. Tomi, the place where this occurred, was believed to have derived its name from temno (τέμνω, "cut").

According to another tradition, Absyrtus was not taken by Medea, but was sent out by his father in pursuit of her. He overtook her in Corcyra, where she had been kindly received by King Alcinous, who refused to surrender her to Absyrtus. When he overtook her a second time in the island of Minerva, he was slain by Jason. Apollonius of Rhodes presents a variation on this tradition in Argonautica (Book 4): Jason murdered Medea's brother on one of the "Brygean Islands" (an island sacred to the goddess Artemis and located in the modern Kvarner Gulf), where he was lured by Medea with false promises – their first (and last) meeting after leaving Colchis.

title: Absyrtus


text:
Talk:US 2 freeway (Michigan)

I don't have a really strong opinion on this, but with the current content, this article is terribly misnamed as US 2 freeway (Michigan) -- it should be St. Ignace-Moran Expressway. That freeway USED to be designated as US 2, but is no longer, so unless someone is planning to expand this article very soon, I suggest that this should be moved back to its original name. older ≠ wiser 14:51, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * St. Ignace-Moran Expressway was a made-up name for a freeway that apparently never had a name. This was the best I could think of. --SPUI (talk) 14:55, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I was about to make an addendum to my original comment that Google doesn't show ANY hits for "St. Ignace-Moran Expressway" and I don't see any mention of it a Chris Bessert's Michigan Highways -- so I don't know if the name is even real. Some sort of citation of the term's use would be helpful. older ≠ wiser 14:58, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * The use seems to be limited to past history of this page and a redirect. Have a look at the page before I moved it - everything says "I made up this name on the spot". By the way, Chris Bessert uses "US 2 freeway":
 * "1957 - The first portion of the US-2 freeway opens between Evergreen Shores and M-123 north of Saint Ignace, marking the first freeway segment ever built in the U.P. Also, on November 1, 1957, the Mackinac Bridge opens for traffic, with a new interchange at US-2 adjacent to Straits State Park on the west side of Saint Ignace."
 * This seems to be what it was referred to when it was built. I'd go with either expanding this page to include all of the former US 2 freeway, or simply merging it with I-75. --SPUI (talk) 15:06, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * If it becomes about the "former" US-2 freeway, the article should be renamed accordingly. But I would be OK with merging whatever tidbits of information there are regarding the history into the I-75 and US-2 articles. The old redirect should probably be deleted. That name, as I'm finding out, is really quite misleading as the freeway segment never went anywhere near the community of Moran. older ≠ wiser 15:46, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:US 2 freeway (Michigan)


text:
Cyril Hare

Alfred Alexander Gordon Clark (4 September 1900 – 25 August 1958) was an English barrister, judge and crime writer under the pseudonym Cyril Hare.

Life and work
Gordon Clark was born in Mickleham, Surrey, the third son of Henry Herbert Gordon Clark of Mickleham Hall, Surrey, a merchant in the wine and spirit trade, Matthew Clark & Sons being the family firm. The socialist politician Susan Lawrence was his aunt. He was educated at St Aubyn's, Rottingdean and Rugby. He read History at New College, Oxford (where he heard William Archibald Spooner say in a sermon that 'now we see through a dark glassly' [sic]) and graduated with a First. He then studied law and was called to the Bar at Middle Temple in 1924.

Gordon Clark's pseudonym was a mixture of Hare Court, where he worked in the chambers of Roland Oliver, and Cyril Mansions, Battersea, where he lived after marrying Mary Barbara Lawrence (daughter of Sir William Lawrence, 3rd Baronet) in 1933. They had one son, Charles Philip Gordon Clark (1936-2018; clergyman, later dry stone waller), and two daughters, Alexandra Mary Gordon Clark (b. 1938) and Cecilia Mary Gordon Clark (1944-1999; wife of Roderick Snell).

As a young man and during the early days of the Second World War, Gordon Clark toured as a judge's marshal, an experience he used in Tragedy at Law. Between 1942 and 1945, he worked at the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. At the beginning of the war, he served a short time at the Ministry of Economic Warfare, and the wartime civil service with many temporary members appears in With a Bare Bodkin. In 1950, he was appointed county court judge in Surrey. His best-known novel is Tragedy at Law, in which he drew on his legal expertise and in which he introduced Francis Pettigrew, a not-very-successful barrister who in this and four other novels just happens to elucidate aspects of the crime. His professional detective (they appeared together in three novels, and only one has neither of them present) was a large and realistic police officer, Inspector Mallett, with a vast appetite.

Tragedy at Law has never been out of print, and Marcel Berlins described it in 1999 as "still among the best whodunnits set in the legal world." P. D. James went further and wrote that it "is generally acknowledged to be the best detective story set in that fascinating world." It appeared at no. 85 in The Top 100 Crime Novels of All Time. Of his other full-length novels, Suicide Excepted shows a man committing an almost perfect murder, only to find that a quirk of the insurance laws deprives him of his hoped-for reward. He was a member of the Detection Club.

Cyril Hare's short stories were mostly written for the London Evening Standard. Among them, "The Story of Hermione", in which the eponymous character grows rich from the all-too-convenient deaths of several relatives, has been called one of the most chilling short stories ever written. "Sister Bessie" describes vividly the agonies of a blackmail victim and the desperate crimes he commits in the hope of freeing himself from his tormentor. "Miss Burnside's Dilemma" describes the predicament of a person who uncovers a piece of unscrupulous, but entirely legal, chicanery by someone she had previously admired. "A Life for a Life" explores the possibility of atonement for one's earthly sins after death. Having suffered from tuberculosis shortly after the Second World War, Gordon Clark was never again in full health and died at his home near Box Hill, Surrey at age 57. His estate was valued at £29,106.

He is buried at St. Michael's Church, Mickleham.

Novels

 * Tenant for Death (1937), adapted from the stage play Murder in Daylesford Gardens
 * Death Is No Sportsman (1938)
 * Suicide Excepted (1939)
 * Tragedy at Law (1942)
 * With a Bare Bodkin (1946)
 * The Magic Bottle, a children's book (1946)
 * When the Wind Blows (US title The Wind Blows Death, 1949)
 * An English Murder (1951), adapted from the radio play Murder at Warbeck Hall (Title of some US reprints The Christmas Murder, 1953)
 * That Yew Tree's Shade (US title Death Walks the Woods, 1954)
 * He Should Have Died Hereafter (US title and also title of some UK reprints Untimely Death, 1958)

Short story collections

 * Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare (US title Death among Friends and Other Stories, 1959, edited by Michael Gilbert)''

Short stories

 * The Tragedy of Young Macintyre. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Where There's a Will. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * A Life for a Life. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * A Very Useful Relationship. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * The Death of Amy Robsart. The Sketch, Christmas Number 1937. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Weight and See. Illustrated London News, Christmas Number 1938. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare (Mallett)
 * TITLE UNKNOWN. The Sketch, Christmas Number 1938
 * Miss Burnside's Mistake. Pearson's Magazine November 1939. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare as Miss Burnside's Dilemma
 * The Return Visit. The Gloucester Journal, 6 April 1940 (Mallett)
 * It Takes Two .... Evening Standard, 29 November 1949. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Sister Bessie. Evening Standard, 23 December 1949. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare as Sister Bessie or Your Old Leech. Reprinted as Sister Bessie or The Present in the Post. Queensland Times, 28 December 1950
 * I Never Forget a Face. Evening Standard, 27 April 1950. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * As the Inspector Said .... Evening Standard, 23 August 1950. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * The Euthanasia of Hilary's Aunt. Evening Standard, 9 December 1950
 * Spare the Rod and Spoil the Crime. Evening Standard, 24 January 1951
 * Death among Friends. Evening Standard, 28 March 1951. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Murderers' Luck. This Week, 24 June 1951. Reprinted, Evening Standard, 17 July 1951 and collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare. Also published as Mugs' Luck and Mug's Luck
 * Amazing Lady. This Week, 23 September 1951. Reprinted, Evening Standard, 4 October 1951 and collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare as The Story of Hermione
 * The Will. Evening Standard, 6 December 1951
 * Line out of Order. Evening Standard, 4 January 1952. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare. Also published as Automatic Out of Order
 * Accident. Evening Standard, 21 June 1952
 * Name of Smith. Evening Standard, 5 July 1952. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare (Pettigrew)
 * The Old Flame. Evening Standard, 5 August 1952. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Death of a Blackmailer. Evening Standard, 2 September 1952. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * A Surprise for Christmas. Evening Standard, 23 December 1952. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * The Markhampton Miracle. Evening Standard, 17 October 1953. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare.
 * Dropper's Delight. Evening Standard, 13 April 1954. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * This Side up with Care. Evening Standard, 8 July 1954
 * The Rivals. Evening Standard, 14 July 1955. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * The Man in the Silk Pyjamas. Evening Standard, 15 August 1955. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare as The Heel
 * The Man from Pannonia. Evening Standard, 30 September 1955
 * Punctuality Grant. Evening Standard, 11 October 1955. Also published as The Phone Call at 4am
 * The Magnifying Glass. Evening Standard, 10 March 1956
 * The Ruling Passion. Evening Standard, 25 July 1956. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare (Pettigrew)
 * Devil on the Island. This Week, 17 November 1957. Reprinted, Evening Standard, 9 October 1958 as Thursday's Child. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * The Double Take. This Week, 15 December 1957. Reprinted, Evening Standard, 6 October 1958 as Monday's Child. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Sermon's in the Bag. Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine, August 1958. Reprinted, Evening Standard, 7 October 1958. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare as Tuesday's Child
 * Wednesday's Child. Evening Standard, 8 October 1958. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Friday's Child. Evening Standard, 10 October 1958. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare
 * Saturday's Child. Evening Standard, 11 October 1958. Collected in Best Detective Stories of Cyril Hare

Radio plays

 * Murder at Warbeck Hall BBC Light Programme, 27 January 1948 (Episode 2 in a series of plays by members of The Detection Club)

Stage plays

 * Murder In Daylesford Gardens (1929). Revised as The Noose Is Cut (1935)
 * The House of Warbeck (1955). Adapted from An English Murder

Reviews

 * Forensic Farce (Review of Friends at Court by Henry Cecil). Daily Telegraph, 16 March 1956

title: Cyril Hare