text:
Talk:Pioneer Zephyr

Revenue service photos
The two photos that are shown of Zephyrs in revenue service are more likely of the Mark Twain Zephyr than the Pioneer Zephyr since they show the train arriving at locations in Illinois (which were not on the Pioneer Zephyr's revenue route). I have been able to find only one photo of the Pioneer Zephyr in revenue service online, and the page I found it on seems to indicate that it's a royalty-free image, but I haven't found a definitive answer on whether I can use it in this article or not. A copy without the watermarks is here. slambo 16:15, Feb 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * Some of the reference material that I was looking at last night says that the Pioneer Zephyr route changed over time, so that assumption may not be entirely correct. Further research is needed here. Slambo (Speak)  15:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Nice to haves

 * A simple stick-map of the dash route on a stick-map outline of the US would really punch up that section. If one doesn't exist I might be able to do it if someone can confirm if today's tracks run the same route as then. Or, even better, if there's a messy one someone can provide I can clean it up (would the route shown on the PDF on the amtrak.com Routes page be a close enuf approximation?).
 * Also in that section, an approximation of the distance of the dash would be nice, along with some idea of typical or average rail speeds of the time. I'd re-state the average speed of the dash here, too.
 * If the front of the train was destroyed in the 1939 crash, I assume there was some human cost as well; is there any info on how many people were killed or injured?
 * Was/is stainless steel also not as recyclable as regular steel and iron, which were also recycled during WWII?

I think that's it. Niteowlneils 03:32, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Added the length of the dash, 1,015 miles. I don't know how this tidbit got overlooked.  Anyway, on the dash's route map, I can put something together too, much like I did for Image:DME and ICE route map.JPG, I just haven't found a good reference for the CBQ's route in 1934; I know a couple of the cities the railroad connected to, but I'd like to get some more definite facts before I start on that.  My guess is that from Denver, it traveled to Lincoln, Omaha, Kansas City, Galesburg and then on to Chicago, but I'd like to be sure before I state it as a fact.  I've found a photo of the "Dawn-To-Dusk Club" (the passengers on the dash) after their arrival in Chicago, I'm just waiting for permission to use it here.
 * I'm not sure about the injury toll for the accident that was mentioned, the Johnston, et. al., book only mentions "with tragic consequences" and that the cab was destroyed. I'll see if I can find any more details.
 * Stainless steel was not as easily recyclable as other steels at the time, probably for the same reasons that a new welding technique needed to be developed before it could find extensive use as a carbody material. I forget which of the references I saw that note in, but it was definitely one that is listed in the article. slambo 04:34, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * I just got an email back from the repository that hosts the photo I mentioned above. Unfortunately, I would not be able to use it for the article without submitting a use fee.  Oh well.  Time to send of an info request letter to the NMRA library to see if I can get the route to build a map from. slambo 16:32, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * For a route map, would WP:TRAIL help you do this ? Pickle 18:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that could be used to make a schematic of the route, but for this article, I'd think that lines drawn on a US map, like I was able to create for the Scott Special article, would be more appropriate. Slambo (Speak) 19:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Shotwelding/spotwelding?
The technique described in the article as 'shotwelding' is known as 'spot welding' today. Is there a reason for refering to it as shotwelding?--FeloniousMonk 06:41, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * read the patent. It is not plain old spotwelding, but a significant refinement thereof. Fawcett5 13:01, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Fawcett5 is right. The patent calls it shotwelding, so that's the terminology used here.  slambo 13:43, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Trainset?
To me this term is ambiguous and implies that this train is in fact a model railroad train. Maybe Trainset is the correct professional term, but for the benefeit of people who are trying to learn something new, perhaps this added confusion could be eliminated. (unsigned comment from 209.222.223.58)

As a model railroader of 20+ years with many professional railroad acquaintances, "trainset" to me means a group of railroad cars that are permanently or semipermanently coupled to form a single unit for operations; while "train set" (note that there is a space in this one) is a collection of train equipment, either prototype or model, but more often associated with models. I haven't seen a printed resource to back this up, or to state it to the contrary. I'm going with how the term is used in the industry. I will add a note in the article to explain the term and its meaning in the industry. slambo 22:55, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Italics
The italicized "s" in the possessive form of Zephyr is incorrect. I only know of two ways of correcting this, both with HTML, but apparently that is frowned upon. Wayward 07:02, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I took a quick look through my copy of the MLA Style Manual (ISBN 0-87352-699-6) on this one. I didn't see anything either way for possessives of italicized names.  Sec. 3.4.7.e on possessives simply states "To form the possessive of any singular proper noun, add an apostrophe and an s."  We could take this to imply that the "'s" should not be italicized, but that's something that I would expect the MLA to spell out specifically.  Since it doesn't say there about italics, I'm more inclined to leave it as it is.  As to de-italicizing the possessive here, it shouldn't be that difficult: Zephyrs produces Zephyrs. slambo 16:47, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Chicago Manual of Style, 14th ed., p. 201, 6.29: "When a proper name is in italic type, its possessive ending is preferably set in roman". The time abbreviation in the article is also incorrect. There should be a space between the numerical time and the abbreviation, and periods between the letters of the abbreviation: 7:04 a.m. and 8:09 p.m. I corrected this once, but… Wayward 03:29, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Okeydokey. I'll defer since Chicago specifically mentions it and MLA doesn't.  Personally, I have no preference on this issue, I was just going with what I had at hand. slambo 15:37, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Minor addition: When time is abbreviated with small capitals, the periods are unnecessary. Wayward 20:37, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think I've got them all updated as noted. slambo 15:44, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * There is a wiki problem with your last edit, causing unintended bold and italic text. Wayward 18:37, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Doh! Should have seen that coming.  I've wrapped apostrophes in nowiki tags so they render properly now. slambo 20:57, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Just a historian's note here, but all GM locomotives built prior to 1941 were built by the Electro-Motive Corporation (EMC). The Electro-Motive Division (EMD) was formed on January 1, 1941 with the merger of the Winton Engine Company with EMC.

Cab controls

To answer the question posed in the photo caption; Yes, there is a deadman's pedal partially visible in this photo. While the pedal itself is obscured behind the seat's lower cushion, the gray object just above the "right front" corner of the seat is recognizable to me as the mechanism of such a pedal. 20:38, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for all the edits
I've just made a series of edits to the article following a comment left on the Ref patent talk page. I thought it might be useful to see different ways in which the patent templates can be used to put different levels of information around an article. Each of my three edits works in a different way, so please take a look and decide which one you think works best for this particular article, if any! GDallimore (Talk) 14:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pioneer_Zephyr&diff=137683190&oldid=137657588
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pioneer_Zephyr&diff=next&oldid=137683190
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pioneer_Zephyr&diff=next&oldid=137685099

 * Way cool, thanks for looking into this. I'll be reviewing the options and selecting one for consistency soon.  Slambo (Speak)  15:31, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

 * No problem. It's interesting to see how people want to use these templates so that I can try to improve the accordingly. By the way, if you want a complete example of how adding patents into a bibliography section or patent section can work, take a look at Atomic line filter. Personally, I'm not sure I like the style, but it had to be done there because one editor didn't like the different styles between citing a book and citing a patent, whereas I was not willing to have inventors named as the "authors" of a patent, since they very rarely are. GDallimore (Talk) 16:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Engineer/driver
Yesterday I changed "driver" in a photo caption to "engineer"; this morning, GDallimore changed it back. Although I am very much an Anglophile, I do feel this is rather discourteous. I've been corrected several times when editing railroad - sorry, railway articles by British speakers who insist on saying things like "goods wagons" and "bogies" - but the Pioneer Zephyr was an entirely American invention and is unmistakably an American topic, and so I strongly believe American usage should prevail in this particular instance.

If I had done this on, say, the Flying Scotsman article, GDallimore would have been perfectly justified in correcting me; I hope all can see that the same courtesy should apply in reverse as well. This is not merely my personal preference: please see Manual_of_Style.

I have, however, wikilinked the word "engineer" to the relevant article which should clarify the term for anyone who may be confused, which was GDallimore's stated concern. Textorus (talk) 16:14, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't see how following WP:BRD is discourteous - something which you have failed to do, I see. GDallimore (Talk) 23:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

 * WP:TIES is about spelling variations. This is not a spelling variation, it is a different word. WP:COMMONALITY applies better to this situtation and suggests using the least potentially confusing word as I argued when reverting your change. Eg, alternative instead of alternate. GDallimore (Talk) 23:26, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Confusing to whom? I seriously doubt that any native English speakers, from any continent, would be truly confused about the meaning of either word in the context shown; but even if they were, the wikilink I inserted there takes them straight to an article which provides 5 different synonyms in American and Commonwealth usage in the very first sentence, which would immediately demystify their minds.

 * That is what wikilinks are for, no?

 * My use of the word engineer, moreover, is entirely consistent with the rest of the article about this American train. The article is full of Americanisms, both in spelling and in terms:  e.g., railroad, railroad cars, freight trains, baggage car, trucks, grade crossings, even aluminum - not, please notice, railway, railway carriages, goods train, luggage van, bogies, level crossings, and aluminium.  So I'm at a loss to understand either your thinking or your reaction to the change of one single word, which is very much in line with the rest of this article and with MOS guidelines.    Textorus (talk) 14:20, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * While I concur that the term engineer in an article about trains built in America and operated in America is a reasonable choice, as virtually all Americans would understand—and expect—the word engineer in this context, I suggest a compromise: According to Railroad engineer, the proper term used in America is locomotive engineer. Use that, and you've not only clarified the term, but you're being consistent with other parts of Wikipedia.  (I also find it to be more self-explanatory than railroad engineer, which could imply that one engineers railways.)  As for the etymology, I suspect it goes back to the time when the operator of a locomotive required a fair amount of engineering skill to keep the beast in operation smoothly and safely, and/or a less Latinate interpretation of engineer as "one who does things to or with engines," as compared to the sense derived from ingeniā "to design, devise." (Ref. ) // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 19:38, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 * KISS. 'Engineer' and 'Driver' imply different skill sets, and it strikes me that the word engineer is 'over-engineered' (ie ambiguous) in this context. The solution applied, using a link to dab it, is yet another redundant move as a link there doesn't really add value. I think Hans' proposal below is a creative and 'commonal' way of solving the problem. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 01:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure the reference to the person who, um, engines? engineers??? the train is really necessary. This person is not visible in the photo, and the simplest way out would be to rewrite the caption to avoid the issue. E.g.: "Pioneer Zephyr cab with controls". This way nobody will be confused. Perhaps someone finds an even better formulation? Hans Adler 20:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

 * That's an even better idea! I like that. // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 20:55, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes. FWIW, "railroad engineer" would be worse, not better, to me (a Brit): that would not be anyone on board, but someone involved in planning, construction and maintenance of the railway system. Similarly, "locomotive engineer" would merely narrow it to vehicles rather than infrastructure, and still not mean anyone on board. (And I agree that wikilinking is not a solution; apart from anything else, my expectations of these terms is sufficiently strong to prevent my using such a wikilink and discovering my error.) Yes, recasting to avoid the issue is a good solution here. PL290 (talk) 10:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

 * This solution seems to avoid the key problem which I see coming up time and again and needs a solid answer. As PL290 says, the problem here is that in BrEng an engineer is someone who fixes things, not someone who drives things. The link does not help because people aren't going to look up a word they think they already know. The other examples of "confusing" US terminology are not actually confusing because there is no ambiguity or different in meaning for the sam word being used in different ways in different countries. An unambiguous word is clearly the best one to use. GDallimore (Talk) 12:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

land speed record
Intro says 115 mph; text of article says 130 mph. Jnmwiki (talk) 18:02, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Dawn to Dusk Club photo
File:Pioneer Zephyr Dawn to Dusk Club 1936.JPG This photo was published by the Chicago Tribune as the first regular service Denver Zephyr made its run in 1936. There's a photo similar to the one in the article (also non-free) at the McCook, NE public library. Both are dated 1934, but in all three photos, the men are wearing the same suits and ties.

The "Tribune" photo looks to have originally been taken in 1934 and run with the copy seen on the photo's back. Contacting the Burlington Historical Society with questions brought no response. I'm proposing that the free use photo replace the present one of the "Dawn to Dusk Club" as it appears to have been taken on the same day. We hope (talk) 04:37, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * My preference is to retain the long standing current image which, although smaller, is still a superior quality image. Centpacrr (talk) 10:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Talk about misleading hyperbole...
This article contained the ridiculous exaggeration, "Even if they did have the money to travel, the equipment that railroads were using to carry passengers had not changed much since the middle of the 19th century." I've removed it. There was a world of difference in size, speed, and safety between the early, slow-running, modest-sized steam locomotives and small, frail passenger cars of the mid-1800s and the massive, fast steam locomotives and long, heavily-built passenger cars of the early 1930s. --Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 19:56, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Pioneer Zephyr. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/zephyr/history/nytimes/nytimes.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060618230700/http://www.dorneypark.com/public/inside_park/rides/rides/zephyr.cfm to http://www.dorneypark.com/public/inside_park/rides/rides/zephyr.cfm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930071656/http://www.railmodel.com/bulletins/chl/CBQ_BM_Shovelnoses.htm to http://www.railmodel.com/bulletins/chl/CBQ_BM_Shovelnoses.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Pioneer Zephyr. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120227192707/http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5623.pdf to http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5623.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:15, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Pioneer Zephyr. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050309160358/http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/streamliners/peopleevents/p_rbudd.html to https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/streamliners/peopleevents/p_rbudd.html
 * Added tag to http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?resultsScreen+31865+1+4+0

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:05, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Conflicting information
The section Early Zephyr trains says:

 * The six car sets 9904 and 9905 began service as the Denver Zephyr in May 1936 . . .

It is uncited.

The sources cited in Denver Zephyr state that the Advance Denver Zephyr of May 1936 were 9900 and 9903 (PZ and MTZ). Kablammo (talk) 19:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In reliance on those sources, I have edited the article to remove the uncited assertion quoted above. Kablammo (talk) 02:13, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Article issues

 * As a "featured article" this is supposed to be "...considered to be some of the best articles Wikipedia has to offer." There has been some referencing issues and a tag from February 2017 (See "References" above) that has been unresolved concerning unsourced sections. To even be considered for B-Class referencing cannot be an issue.
 * A solution, short of finding sources or a demotion, is to remove the material that creates the issue. I have hidden the unsourced section and removed the tag. If someone wishes inclusion there needs to be sourcing. Otr500 (talk) 08:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

URFA/2020 review and concerns
I reviewed this article for WP:URFA/2020 and I am concerned that the article no longer meets the featured article criteria. Some of my concerns are outlined below:

 * The "Concept and construction" section is quite long. Can this be split into two sections and summarised/trimmed?
 * Multiple paragraphs do not end with an inline citation. While this might not have been necessary in 2007 during the article's FAR, my experience with recent FACs has caused me to think that this standard has risen. An inline citation at the end of the paragraph makes it clear to the reader what is verifying the last sentence's information.
 * The ""Silver Streak" film" does not contain any inline citations.
 * The "Legacy" section contains one-sentence paragraphs. Can this section be reformatted to have paragraphs instead?

Is anyone interested in addressing these concerns? I am pinging as they were the article's FAC nominator and they are still actively editing. Z1720 (talk) 18:23, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the ping. I'll work a bit more on it in the coming weeks.  Slambo (Speak)  15:34, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Gathering my resources. Some of the references cited are (widely available) books in my personal collection and are a bit buried in my basement, so I'm digging them out again.  Slambo (Speak)  03:00, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Still digging out a few resources. I have some handy now. Work is a bit busy this week, but with more time opening up soon, I will try to pop in more frequently to work on it.  I moved the Byron book from Further Reading to References because I now have a copy of that book and will use it for further citations. Slambo (Speak)  22:08, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Now working on adding details and more citations. I'll be working on it more on and off over the next couple weeks as I have time around my regular schedule.  Slambo (Speak)  16:30, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * are you still working on this? I still see some paragraphs that need citations. Feel free to ping me once your edits are complete. Z1720 (talk) 17:44, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm still trying to work on this. The last couple months of 2022 were an unintentional Wiki break.  I've been editing on a nearly daily basis since September 2004, and now that we're into 2023, one of my goals is to get back to regular editing again, starting today. Slambo (Speak)  18:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * are you or any other editors still interested in working on this? Z1720 (talk) 13:20, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

infobox about the Zephyr trains overall, or just this one?
For example, it states "Number built	1 trainset (3 cars)". That suggests the infobox is about the Pioneer Zephyr exclusively.

But a reader could reasonably expect this article to be about all the contemporary Zephyrs, and be misled into thinking there was only one train set (despite the text mentioning more).

The page Zephyr could be argued would be a better destination for an overall info box, so we have somewhere to place the total number of Zephyr trains. Currently though it's only a disambiguation page.

CapnZapp (talk) 19:05, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

 * I agree that a summary article about Burlington's Zephyrs would be useful; Zephyr (train) doesn't fit that bill right now. I disagree that this article is the natural location for it, and that readers would expect it to be here. Mackensen (talk) 19:49, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I mentioned at Featured article review/Pioneer Zephyr/archive2 that I believe there's too much detail about the other trainsets. Their existence is relevant and merits mention (especially the Flying Yankee and other trainsets that heavily derived from the Pioneer Zephyr), but as it stands this article does go too much into detail about them. I propose an article titled Burlington Zephyrs or similar that covers all of the trains with the Zephyr name. I also proposed removing the Zephyr tributes in advertising, commercial products, and sports section as lacking any substantial sourcing. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:14, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Mackensen: It can be difficult for an expert on a subject to appreciate how an article can come across as confusing for a regular reader so let me state: this article is not especially clear it is about just one out of many similar-but-not-identical Zephyr trains. Most trains don't have individual articles for each unit. This is compounded by there being no other well-developed article about the Zephyrs as a whole, again making this article's info box the natural place to look for summary info (such as the number of units built). CapnZapp (talk) 01:08, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Trainsandotherthings: I would wonder why you aren't simply creating the article, but it appears you are in an active discussion over at that other place, so I'll let that play out. CapnZapp (talk) 01:11, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Because I have a full time job and other responsibilities. There are many articles I want to create but haven't had the time or energy to do so. I have limited time that I can dedicate to Wikipedia. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 02:37, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Just to be clear, what I would like is: an infobox somewhere that summarizes the run of Zephyr trains. How many train sets were built? CapnZapp (talk) 01:13, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I've taken a ~3kb bite out of the article that didn't discuss the Pioneer Zephyr at all in favor of the other trains. More could probably be removed. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, but I think what a reader expects the most, is a summary page for all Zephyr trains (and an infobox for all of them). Then, as a secondary interest, individual pages for each one. Alternatively, make it much more clear (to a non train buff) that even though all these trains had "Zephyr" in the name, they really aren't that similar, and should best be considered individual trains just with confusingly similar names. (I don't know which solution mirrors reality best) Hope this clears it up that my aim starting this talk section was not primarily or even secondarily "please remove stuff about other Zephyrs than the Pioneer Zephyr". Thanks CapnZapp (talk) 14:59, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree that there should be a page that covers all the Zephyr trains. But this article is not the place for it. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Origin of name
This paragraph currently reads:

 * Budd took the task of naming the train very seriously. He wanted a name that started with the letter Z because this train was intended to be the "last word" in passenger service; Budd and his coworkers looked up the last words in their dictionaries, but neither zymurgy nor zyzzle conveyed the meanings that Budd was looking for. The name of the new train came from The Canterbury Tales, which Budd had been reading. The story begins with pilgrims setting out on a journey, inspired by the budding springtime and by Zephyrus, the gentle and nurturing west wind. Budd thought that would be an excellent name for a sleek new traveling machine—Zephyr.

This is problematic because while it adheres to the sources it gives off the impression Budd coined the term. Please rewrite in such a way our editorial voice doesn't just give our sources a pass. Uncritically parroting our sources makes us appear as if zymurgy and zyzzle really were the only two words to be found starting in 'z' but that doesn't change the fact Shakespeare used "zephyr" in 1611 (also alluding to Zephyrus).

That our sources might possibly be entirely oblivious to this, does not give us the right to be. Since my attempt was reverted, it's your turn, User:Trainsandotherthings. CapnZapp (talk) 01:04, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 * You are asking me to engage in synthesis by taking the statement that Shakespeare used the word in 1611 and attempting to claim that's where Budd got the word, without any source to support this. I will not do so. I don't know that the part about other words with Z is needed, but you can't just drop in "someone used this word before" and say that proves that's where the word came from. I don't know what you're trying to say with the phrase "uncritically parroting our sources" as everything we do here is in fact based on reliable sources, especially secondary ones which support this claim - you've only produced a primary source. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 02:35, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You make two erroneous conclusions. One, you labor under the misunderstanding I want (you) to claim Budd got the word from any other source than the listed one, which would be preposterous. Two, you appear to think I want to "prove" the train name came from elsewhere. Neither is correct - read what I actually wrote above, instead what you might think I wrote. I never asked you to change the claim "Budd got his name from Canterbury Tales" and I don't want you to. That Budd got the word from Canterbury is not up for discussion. Instead, I noted how our sources appear to be oblivious to the fact the word was used before Budd. And how the current wording create a strong risk by omission: that our readers might conclude Budd coined the word. Now then. I've basically rephrased my second paragraph (starting with This is problematic...), and I expect you to assume you are having a good faith discussion with a fellow experienced Wikipedian and ask constructive questions if you still have misgivings, User:Trainsandotherthings. CapnZapp (talk) 14:53, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you're upset, but I am thoroughly unconvinced by your arguments thus far. If you add in "Shakespeare used this word in 1611", even within explicitly drawing any connection, the effect is that readers will assume there is a connection, as why else would it be mentioned in the article at all? If he got the word from Canterbury Tales, then clearly he didn't create the word, yes? If you agree that Budd picked the name by seeing it in Canterbury Tales, then what is it that you're asking to be changed? That we just drop in "Shakespeare used this word once", despite no sources on the train making that connection? I will repeat my previous statement that only using a primary source for what you are proposing is not sufficient and certainly is inappropriate for a FA. Honestly, I'm close to just letting the FAR go through and delist at this point, I've put in hours of my limited free time into trying to improve this article and gotten precisely zero help from anyone else, only criticism. I have no special attachment to this article, I just saw it was going through FAR and thought I would try to save a train article. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:25, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The main problem as I see it, User:Trainsandotherthings is that you appear to see yourself as the injured party here. Let me remind you that it was you who reverted me. You focus on your issues, complaining your "limited free time" and how little help you've gotten, completely forgetting that it was you who actively decided to intervene. The only relevant problem here - right here in this particular talk section - is that you chose to stand in my way. While that is your right, I must first ask you to discuss all your other issues elsewhere, since I am not here to help you with your time management. I am here to collaborate with you in reaching a phrasing we both agree to. If you persist in opposing my suggestions, then it falls upon you to come up with a better solution amicable to all parties. If you don't have the time, the easiest solution is just to disengage. Now then, back on topic: as I understand it your complaint is that we should not needlessly mention an irrelevant fact. Okay so I will attempt to rewrite the paragraph to avoid what I all along have stated to be the issue: while our sources may give off the impression Budd coined "Zephyr" (inadvertently or not) we, the Wikipedia voice, know better, and should not repeat their sentiment. CapnZapp (talk) 09:25, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please strike your vicious, hurtful, and patently false personal attack. My "time management" abilities are none of your fucking business, am I clear? You asked earlier why I hadn't created an article on the Zephyrs, and I gave you an honest answer. I did not expect you to turn around and weaponize that against me, manipulating my words in the process. As I had indicated four days ago, I was disengaging. You could have taken the win and let things lie. But you had to come back and make an attack against my character. One thing you'll learn about me is I do not tolerate bullies, and that's exactly what you're revealing yourself to be. Your feelings were so hurt by someone daring to disagree with your edit that you had to start throwing out insults. As someone who claims to be an experienced editor, you know better. Your unbecoming behavior is very disappointing.
 * I dared to "intervene", you say. I was trying to repair a featured article in danger of delistment, actively at FAR. I was active in this effort well before you showed up and started making drive-by edits. I reverted your edits because I believed they were not improvements and actually reversed progress I had made in improving the article's accuracy and citations. You don't care about that, though, all that matters is that you "win" and get your preferred version in the article. And if someone objects, you just bully them until you get your way. It's no surprise your talk page archive is littered with complaints and warnings about personal attacks you've made and edit warring you've engaged in.
 * I also stand by my observation that no one else has made any serious efforts to improve the article and avoid delisting. How many uncited sections have you cited? What improvements have you made besides adding a citation to a dictionary? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pioneer Zephyr


text:
Talk:Pioneer Zephyr/to do

 * Add photos from throughout the train's service history (the photos of service in Illinois are probably of the Mark Twain Zephyr and not the Pioneer Zephyr)
 * Add timetable data from revenue service
 * Add route maps from revenue service

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Pioneer Zephyr/to do


text:
Operation Leo

Operation Leo was a plan to kidnap the Swedish minister for immigration, Anna-Greta Leijon, in 1977. The plan was devised by the second generation of the German Red Army Faction.

Origins
The first generation of the group was also known as the Baader–Meinhof Group, after two of its founding members.

Background

The Red Army Faction devised the plan as a direct consequence of the outcome of the 1975 West German embassy siege in Stockholm. A group of RAF members seized the embassy by force, demanding negotiations with the West German government. After the Swedish and German governments had employed stalling tactics the terrorists became impatient and allegedly started planning a violent break-out. A botched attempt to create a diversion led to an explosion and a massive fire. One terrorist, Siegfried Hausner, died from injuries sustained in the explosion in Stammheim Prison after being flown to Germany. The other members of the group were arrested as they tried to flee the premises.

If the plan to kidnap Leijon had been successful the group would have named their unit "Commando Siegfried Hausner".

The operation

Leijon was chosen because she held the highest political responsibility for the new Swedish anti-terrorist law, and the goal was to exchange Leijon for eight 'comrades' held in West German prisons. The group intended to put the minister in a wooden box so as to prevent her from hearing or seeing anything and subsequently moving her to another location.

The plan was extensive and complicated and included robbing banks and procuring weapons. However, unbeknownst to the Red Army Faction, the Swedish Security Service (Säpo) had them under close surveillance. Before the plan could be put into action the police arrested the entire group in an operation code-named "Ebba Röd".

During the investigation that followed, some 90 people were arrested. Many received prison terms, among them were:

 * Lennart Warring, sentenced to four years in prison.
 * Pia Laskar, sentenced to three years in prison.
 * Anna-Karin Lindgren, sentenced to two years in prison.
 * Katarina Motzi Ekelöf, sentenced to two years in prison.
 * Eive Tungstedt, sentenced to six months in prison.
 * Karl Gratzer, sentenced to three months in prison.

The leader of the group, Norbert Kröcher, was deported to Germany where he served out his prison sentence until released in 1989. After he was arrested, "Ebba Grön" was called out on the police radio. (Röd is the Swedish word for red, and Grön is the word for green. Ebba was the police code-name for Kröcher.) The Swedish punk band Ebba Grön, formed in 1977, named themselves after the code word used in the police operation.

title: Operation Leo


text:
Jane Mayer

Jane Meredith Mayer (born 1955) is an American investigative journalist who has been a staff writer for The New Yorker since 1995. She has written for the publication about money in politics; government prosecution of whistleblowers; the United States Predator drone program; Donald Trump's ghostwriter, Tony Schwartz; and Trump's financial backer, Robert Mercer. In 2016, Mayer's book Dark Money—in which she investigated the history of the conservative fundraising Koch brothers—was published to critical acclaim.

Early life and education
Mayer was born in New York City. Her mother, Meredith (née Nevins), is a painter, print-maker and former president of the Manhattan Graphics Center. Her father, William Mayer, was a composer. Her paternal great-great-grandfather was Emanuel Lehman, one of the founders of Lehman Brothers. Her maternal grandparents were Mary Fleming (Richardson) and Allan Nevins, a historian and John D. Rockefeller Jr.'s authorized biographer.

Mayer attended two private non-secondary schools: Fieldston, in the northwest area of the Bronx borough of New York City; and—as an exchange student in 1972-1973—Bedales, a boarding school in the village of Steep, Hampshire, England.

A 1977 magna cum laude graduate of Yale University, she was elected to Phi Beta Kappa and served as senior editor of the Yale Daily News and as campus stringer for Time magazine.

Career
Mayer began her career as a journalist in Vermont writing for two small weekly papers, The Weathersfield Weekly and The Black River Tribune, before moving to the daily Rutland Herald. She worked as a metropolitan reporter for the now-defunct Washington Star, and in 1982 joined The Wall Street Journal, where she worked for 12 years. She was the first woman at the WSJ to be named White House correspondent, and subsequently, senior writer and front page editor.

She served as a war correspondent and foreign correspondent for the Journal, where she reported on the bombing of the American barracks in Beirut, the Persian Gulf War, the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the last days of Communism in the former Soviet Union. Mayer also contributes to the New York Review of Books, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and the American Prospect.

Mayer has co-authored two books: Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomas (1994) (co-authored with Jill Abramson), a study of the nomination and appointment of Clarence Thomas to the U.S. Supreme Court; and Landslide: The Unmaking of the President, 1984–1988 (1989; co-authored with Doyle McManus), an account of Ronald Reagan's second term in the White House. Strange Justice was adapted as a 1999 Showtime television movie of the same name, starring Delroy Lindo, Mandy Patinkin, and Regina Taylor. Strange Justice was a finalist for the 1994 National Book Award for Nonfiction, and both books were finalists for the National Book Critics Circle Award.

Time magazine said of Strange Justice: "Its portrait of Thomas as an id suffering in the role of a Republican superego is more detailed and convincing than anything that has appeared so far." Of Landslide, The New York Times Washington correspondent Steven V. Roberts said, "This is clearly a reporter's book, full of rich anecdote and telling detail.... I am impressed with the amount of inside information collected here."

In an Elle magazine interview, Mayer said about her next article, "I'm focusing broadly on stories about abuses of power, threats to democracy, and corruption."

The Dark Side
Mayer's third nonfiction book, The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned into a War on American Ideals (2008), addresses the origins, legal justifications, and possible war crimes liability of the use of enhanced interrogation techniques (commonly considered torture) on detainees and the subsequent deaths of detainees, sometimes victims of mistaken identity, under such interrogation by the CIA and DOD. The roles of Dick Cheney and attorneys David Addington and John Yoo in providing cover for the grisly procedures were prominent. The book was a finalist for the National Book Awards.

In her New York Times review of The Dark Side, Jennifer Schuessler described the book as "the most vivid and comprehensive account we have so far of how a government founded on checks and balances and respect for individual rights could have been turned against those ideals." The Times subsequently named The Dark Side one of its ten most notable books of the year.

Military and diplomatic historian Colonel Andrew J. Bacevich, reviewing the book in The Washington Post, wrote: "[Mayer's] achievement lies less in bringing new revelations to light than in weaving into a comprehensive narrative a story revealed elsewhere in bits and pieces." Washington Post reporter Joby Warrick reported that Mayer's book revealed that a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) analyst warned the Bush administration that "up to a third of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay may have been imprisoned by mistake." The administration ignored the warning and insisted that all were enemy combatants.

In a story appearing the same day in The New York Times, reporter Scott Shane reported Mayer's book as disclosing International Committee of the Red Cross officials had concluded in a secret report in 2007: "the Central Intelligence Agency's interrogation methods for high-level Qaeda prisoners constituted torture and could make the Bush administration officials who approved them guilty of war crimes." Mayer said of her book: "I see myself more as a reporter than as an advocate."

Civil liberties
Mayer covered the Obama administration's prosecution of whistleblowers with an article about former National Security Agency (NSA) official Thomas Drake. Mayer wrote that despite Obama's campaign promises of transparency, his administration "has pursued leak prosecutions with a surprising relentlessness." She won the Polk Award for the article, and the judges said her article helped expose "prosecutorial excess" and "helped lead to all major charges against Drake being dropped."

Drones
In 2009, Mayer covered the Obama administration's use of drones. "The number of drone strikes has risen dramatically since Obama became President", she wrote. Her article described errors, ethical concerns, and potential unintended consequences in the increased use of drone strikes.

Money in politics
Mayer has written about money in politics for many years, covering and criticizing both liberals and conservatives. In 1997, she wrote an article about "dubious Democratic Party fundraising tactics leading to the 1996 election." The article described how the Clinton campaign "marketed the prestige and glamour of the Presidency as never before."

In 2004, she wrote an article on George Soros and other activist billionaires who sought "to use their fortunes to engineer the defeat of President George W. Bush in the 2004 election." The article described Soros's "extreme measures" and how his "outsized financial role in the election" had "stirred alarm".

In 2010, Mayer published an article about the political activities of the Koch brothers, describing their "war against Obama" and funding of the Tea Party and nonprofit organizations that sought to block liberal policy proposals and defeat Democratic candidates. The article was a finalist for the 2011 National Magazine Awards.

In 2011, Mayer reported on retail sales millionaire Art Pope's dominant spending in North Carolina politics. It documented his extraordinarily successful efforts as a Koch brothers ally, who held seats on the boards of their Americans for Prosperity and Citizens for a Sound Economy organizations, to target both Democrats and moderate Republican state legislators. It predicted the redistricting-generated loss of Democratic congressional delegation seats. Her article won a Toner Prize for Excellence in Political Reporting, and the judges called it "the kind of journalism that strengthens democracy and shows the value of a free press." Mark Bauerlein, writing in the Chronicle of Higher Education, was critical of the piece, saying the article was "a tendentious, poorly-researched, and weakly argued bit of journalism" and that "Pope never gets a fair shake." In response to criticism, Mayer supplemented her article with a blog entry pointing out that, despite Pope's claims that he was "not an heir", his "political career was launched" by more than $300,000 from his parents.

In 2012, Mayer wrote an article about President Obama's efforts to raise money from liberal billionaires and his campaign's decision to flip-flop and encourage fundraising from super PACs.

Following the 2016 election cycle, Mayer covered the exertion of the considerable influence of former Democratic strategist and pollster Patrick Caddell, in his capacity as advisor to reclusive contributor Robert Mercer for The New Yorker. Hedge fund director Mercer, joined in his efforts by his daughter Rebekah, has been an increasingly important source of substantial funding for right-wing campaigns, including the successful candidacy of Donald Trump.

Dark Money
In 2016, Doubleday published Mayer's fourth book, Dark Money, which became an instant national best-seller. The New York Times named it one of the year's ten best books. The New York Review of Books described it as "absolutely necessary reading for anyone who wants to make sense of our politics", and Esquire called Mayer "quite simply one of the very few, utterly invaluable journalists this country has". In interviews about her book, Mayer said approximately six investigators, led by former New York Police Commissioner Howard Safir, had been hired by the industrialist Koch brothers in an effort to try to dig up dirt in order to smear her reputation, as well as accusations of plagiarism being leveled against her. She responded by publicly airing those intimidation tactics, effectively debunking the smear campaign. Dark Money won the 2017 Helen Bernstein Award, and was a finalist for the PEN Jean Stein Prize, the Los Angeles Times Book Prize and the J. Anthony Lukas Book Prize.

Eric Schneiderman resignation
On May 7, 2018, within hours of publication of an article Mayer co-wrote with Ronan Farrow in The New Yorker, New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman resigned, effective May 8, 2018. During his term in office, he had been accused of physical abuse by at least four women with whom he had been romantically involved and habitually abusing alcohol and prescription drugs. Mayer and Farrow had reported that they had confirmed the women's allegations both with photographs of contusions, as well as with statements from friends with whom the alleged victims had confided subsequent to the claimed assaults. Though he denied the allegations, Schneiderman stated he resigned because they "effectively prevent me from leading the office's work". Governor Andrew Cuomo assigned a special prosecutor to investigate the filing of possible criminal charges against Schneiderman.

Appearances
Mayer has appeared as a guest on the Charlie Rose Show, as well as on the Late Show with David Letterman. She was also a guest on the Bill Moyers Journal show on PBS in 2008, and appeared as a guest on PBS Tavis Smiley show on August 7, 2008, to discuss her book The Dark Side, which had just made The New York Times Best Seller list. She appeared as a guest on Comedy Central's The Colbert Report on August 12, 2008.

On January 26, 2009, Mayer was interviewed at the Yale Law School Law and Media lecture series by Linda Greenhouse, Distinguished Journalist in Residence, and Emily Bazelon, Truman Capote Fellow in Creative Writing. In October 2008, Mayer participated in a panel discussion of journalists at the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University, devoted to the media's coverage of the Iraq War. That same month Mayer participated as a panelist in a discussion of the same subject at the Newseum in Washington, D.C.

Although not a personal appearance by Mayer, the FOX show 24 had a minor character in its seventh season named Blaine Mayer. The character was named after Jane Mayer, who wrote, ""Well, there's kind of a balancing sensation. The elevation to the U.S. Senate is a nice start to the year, but the sex change is a bit disappointing, since if I have to be male, I was hoping for a younger, more fit body, and a better head of hair. It does however fulfill one of my greatest fantasies, which is that I have long had subpoena envy."

Mayer has appeared frequently on Free Speech TV's Democracy Now! program. On February 17, 2016, she was interviewed by American University journalism professor Charles Lewis, the founder of the Center for Public Integrity, at a public discussion of her career and Dark Money that was broadcast on C-SPAN.

Awards and honors
Mayer was awarded the 2008 John Chancellor Award for Excellence in Journalism for her investigative report leading to her book The Dark Side. The Award, presented annually by the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, is given to reporters for "distinguished cumulative accomplishments." In presenting the award, Nicholas Lemann, dean of the journalism school and one of the nine members of the award committee, noted that Mayer and her fellow winner, Andrew C. Revkin (science reporter for The New York Times) "set the gold standard for journalists, and we have benefited tremendously from their dedication and hard work." She also has won the Ridenhour Book Prize and the New York Public Library's Helen Bernstein Book Award for Excellence in Journalism.

Mayer was a finalist in the National Magazine Awards for 2007 for her nonfiction piece in The New Yorker entitled The Black Sites, which was subsequently collected in The Best American Magazine Writing 2008, published by Columbia University Press, and edited by Jacob Weisberg.

In 2008, Mayer was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in connection with her work on her third book, The Dark Side. In 2009, Mayer was awarded the Hillman Prize, the Shorenstein Center's Goldsmith Book Prize for trade book of the year, and the J. Anthony Lukas Book Prize for The Dark Side.

She received the Edward Weinthal Award from Georgetown University in 2009 and the James Aronson Award for Social Justice Journalism in 2010.

Mayer was awarded the George Polk Award for Magazine Reporting in 2011 for her investigative reporting on the relentless United States Department of Justice prosecution of NSA whistleblower Thomas Andrews Drake. Mayer's article in The New Yorker told the story of how Drake faced up to 35 years in federal prison for communicating non-classified information about an NSA surveillance program known as "Trailblazer" to Baltimore Sun reporter Siobahn Gorman, who wrote a prize-winning article about it. Drake had been arrested after an investigation meant to identify the source for the Pulitzer Prize-winning 2005 New York Times report on warrantless wiretapping. Neither Drake nor any other NSA employee had actually been the story's source. After Mayer's story was published, the prosecution dismissed all 10 felony charges against Drake. He pleaded guilty to one misdemeanor count of violating rules regarding the retention of classified materials.

In 2012, Mayer received the Toner Prize for Excellence in Political Reporting for her coverage of North Carolina state politics.

In 2020, Mayer was awarded the Mirror Award for the Best Single Article/Story for her New Yorker article on detailing the relationship between Fox News and the White house.

Personal life
Mayer married William B. Hamilton, also a journalist, in 1992. Hamilton is the former national editor at The Washington Post and former Washington editor for The New York Times. Hamilton's father was a foreign correspondent and U.N. bureau chief for The New York Times and his grandfather was the editor and publisher of The Augusta (Georgia) Chronicle and a member of the Democratic National Committee.

Their daughter, Katherine Hamilton, was the 2015 winner of the Truman Scholarship from Washington, D.C.

Mayer is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the American Philosophical Society.

title: Jane Mayer


text: User:Paranoid/Timelines/Reproduction

title: User:Paranoid/Timelines/Reproduction


text:
User talk:Britelycolrdcortjstr

I think that there is more to racism than be stereotypical or thinking of things in a stereotypical way. We all have our prejudices and we all have our own fears. These were fears and prejudices created from our up-bringing. I don't think have ideas about people that may or may not be right is typically a bad thing, however I do believe that one must educate themself on the world around them and come to the conclusion that it may fit in one senario but not all. Also as a foot note to remember that some of these stereotypes listed came from the fertile imagination of some writer and not typically from experiences, and the American public was too uneducated at the time to tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction, so they happily believed it. I am convinced if you asked a modern day Klansman why he believes what he believes he would come up with no better answer than asking a non-racist person on the street why they aren't racist. I have been asking black and white Americans this question,"What started racism, why did the Europeans discriminate against Africans? Why do we still have racism today and does anyone truely know its true origins?" I haven't had one single person, white or black, to answer this satisfactorly. I believe that if you don't know why you do it then you should seriously re-evaluate your position.--The Joker 16:19, 2005 Feb 24 (UTC)

title: User talk:Britelycolrdcortjstr


text:
User talk:Junes

Hi and (a belated) welcome to Wikipedia!

I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Don't worry if you're unfamiliar with the features and workings of Wikipedia. Be bold!

The most useful page for newcomers is the tutorial. Once you are used to editing text, you may want to take a look at the picture tutorial. If you do a lot of copyedits, the Manual of Style will be very useful.

Nobody is expected to be familiar with the details of Wikipedia policies or etiquette right away. However, two basic guidelines that help make Wikipedia successful are: avoid bias and be civil. Every contribution helps Wikipedia develop great articles, while the very best become Featured Articles. Much more information can be found at the Community Portal.

When you want a laugh, drop by the unusual articles list. By the way, when on a talk page or vote page, you can sign your edit with your username and date stamp by typing four tildes ( ~ ). If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -  BanyanTree 16:22, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Burundi Civil War
You voted for Burundi Civil War, this week's CSB Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. -  Banyan Tree  20:39, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Featured picture candidates/Red-crested Pochard
Alright, I've removed most of the spots/specks/dirt from the image, although I don't think they were that distracting. I've seen worse-looking, dirtier images become featured pictures. -- brian0918 ™  13:55, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

COTW Project
You voted for Decolonization, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. Tony Jin | (talk) 02:19, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

COTW Project
You voted for Culture of Ancient Rome, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article.

COTW Project
You voted for Roaring Twenties, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. Falphin 03:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Simpsons quotes
Yay you! I would have done it myself (i.e. deleted from brunch), but I was beginning to think there was some obscure wiki rule I would be breaking. I love the Simpsons, but not here. --Mothperson 13:44, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Heheh, thanks. Be bold! ;) Junes 15:43, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

COTW Project
You voted for High Middle Ages, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article.

Discussion at Talk:Pakistan
Would you like to join the animated discussion on the Pakistan's talk page? The current issue is whether "Pakistan is famous for its support of Taliban and 9/11 terrorist" is a suitable sentence to start the article's first paragraph. Your contribution would be much appreciated, as the current discussion seems to be more of a dialog between Ragib and SamTr014 Talk:Pakistan. Thanks !--Sheikhu 07:27, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pim Fortuyn
Hi, you added a POV notice to the Pim Fortuyn page. I feel the article has much improved since then, and is pretty NPOV by now. I plan on removing the POV notice. Would you care to comment on the Talk page of the article? Thanks. Junes 15:03, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for involving me (and thanks for working on that article). I added a comment to the talk page as you requested. 128.59.31.237 23:22, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi Junes. I in principle agree with you; however Tellar26 has already indicated that this was his last contribution to this discussion and as it really doesn't matter what length it has — now it is there anyway — I'll  now give him my last answer. Soon we'll archive the page :o)--MWAK 06:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Robert Burns Timeline
Why did you remove the timeline? "Rather unnecessary" isn't much of a reason?

CPMcE 00:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

thanks for your reply - I take your point. Camillus talk 13:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC) (BTW, do you like my groovy new signature?)

Sources for Lexical decision task
Hello, good work on Lexical decision task, and thanks for the contribution. However, you forgot to add any references to the article. Keeping Wikipedia accurate and verifiable is very important, and as you might be aware there is currently a push to encourage editors to cite the sources they used when adding content. From what websites, books, or other places did you learn the information that you added to Lexical decision task? Would it be possible for you to mention them in the article? You can simply add links, or see WP:CITET if you wish to review some of the different citation methods. Thanks! — BRIAN 0918 • 2005-12-4 20:53

Articles For Deletion
Hi, a while ago you made some comments about the presence of bible-verse articles, and/or source texts of the bible, and you may therefore be interested in related new discussions:
 * A discussion about 200 articles, one each for the first 200 verses of Matthew - Centralized discussion/200 verses of Matthew
 * A discussion about 18 articles, one each for the first 18 verses of John 20 - Centralized discussion/Verses of John 20
 * A discussion about whether or not the entire text of a whole bible chapter should be contained in the 6 articles concerning those specific chapters - Centralized discussion/Whole bible chapter text.

--Victim of signature fascism | Don't forget to vote in the Wikipedia Arbitration Committee elections 18:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

VWN en WCN
Beste allemaal Al enige tijd is er een Nederlandstalig chapter in oprichting, te vinden op http://nl.wikimedia.org. Dit wordt de Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland (VWN). Je kunt je interesse om lid te worden van deze vereniging hier aangeven.

Deze vereniging gaat eind augustus/begin september een Wikimedia Conferentie in Nederland (WCN) houden, volgend op Wikimania in Boston, gedeeltelijk erop inspelend middels een aantal discussiegroepen. Om iets dergelijks te organiseren is imput erg gewenst. Dus als je wilt meehelpen, of als je interesse hebt om bij een dergelijk evenement aanwezig te zijn, geef dat dan aan op nl.wikimedia. Ik hoop daar snel je imput tegemoet te zien! Met vriendelijke groet, effeietsanders 15:41, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Non-parametric statistics article
Would you mind contributing to the discussion I began on Talk:Non-parametric statistics? — Chris53516 (Talk) 17:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Pseudoword
An article that you have been involved in editing, Pseudoword, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Allens (talk) 02:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Survey Invite
I'm working on a study of political motivations and how they affect editing. I'd like to ask you to take a survey. The survey should take 5 minutes. Your survey responses will be kept private. Our project is documented at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_%2B_Politics.

Survey Link: http://uchicago.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_80J3UDCpLnKyWTH?Q_DL=3dz0m2ubQw1KSnb_80J3UDCpLnKyWTH_MLRP_cTspv2RhfKrkO0Z&Q_CHL=gl

I am asking you to participate in this study because you are a frequent editor of pages on Wikipedia that are of political interest. We would like to learn about your experiences in dealing with editors of different political orientations.

Sincere thanks for your help! Porteclefs (talk) 15:24, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Junes


text:
File:Indian students branding cattle.png

American Ind students branding cattle.

Source info:
 * Photograph is from the National Archives and is in the public domain.
 * NAIL Control Number: NWDNS-75-SE-32B.
 * Caption: Students branding cattle at Seger Colony School, Oklahoma, 1900.


text:
Talk:Life preserver

Untitled
Should this be merged with Lifejacket? -- Joolz 16:24, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Life preserver


text:
User talk:Myclob

The Great Colorado Wicnic 2017
I hope you can attend our wiknic this summer. We usually have folks from a number of countries attend, so politics is usually discussed very cordially. Your assumption that reason will persuade the masses is perhaps a little overly optimistic given recent election results. Nevertheless, any attempt to promote liberal democracy will help in the long run. Yours aye, Buaidh  00:38, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message
 Hello! Voting in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:26, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 31
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited E-democracy, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Enlightenment. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 06:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia and copyright
Hello Myclob! Your additions to David's Sling (novel) have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a suitably free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, there are certain things you must keep in mind about using information from sources to avoid copyright and plagiarism issues.

 * You can only copy/translate a small amount of a source, and you must mark what you take as a direct quotation with double quotation marks (") and cite the source using an inline citation. You can read about this at Non-free content in the sections on "text". See also Help:Referencing for beginners, for how to cite sources here.
 * Aside from limited quotation, you must put all information in your own words and structure, in proper paraphrase. Following the source's words too closely can create copyright problems, so it is not permitted here; see Close paraphrasing. Even when using your own words, you are still, however, asked to cite your sources to verify the information and to demonstrate that the content is not original research.
 * We have strict guidelines on the usage of copyrighted images. Fair use images must meet all ten of the non-free content criteria in order to be used in articles, or they will be deleted. To be used on Wikipedia, all other images must be made available under a free and open copyright license that allows commercial and derivative reuse.
 * If you own the copyright to the source you want to copy or are a legally designated agent, you may be able to license that text so that we can publish it here. Understand, though, that unlike many other sites, where a person can license their content for use there and retain non-free ownership, that is not possible at Wikipedia. Rather, the release of content must be irrevocable, to the world, into either the public domain (PD) or under a suitably free and compatible copyright license. Please see Donating copyrighted materials.
 * Also note that Wikipedia articles may not be copied or translated without attribution. If you want to copy or translate from another Wikipedia project or article, you must follow the copyright attribution steps described at Copying within Wikipedia. See also Help:Translation.

It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices, as policy requires that people who persistently do not must be blocked from editing. If you have any questions about this, please ask them here on this page, or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Whpq (talk) 01:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message
 Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:21, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about David's Sling (novel)
Hello Myclob, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

While your contributions are appreciated, I wanted to let you know that I've started a discussion about whether an article that you created, David's Sling (novel), should be deleted, as I am not sure that it is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia in its current form. Your comments are welcome at Articles for deletion/David's Sling (novel).

Deletion discussions usually run for seven days and are not votes. Our guide about effectively contributing to such discussions is worth a read. The most common issue in these discussions is notability, but it's not the only aspect that may be discussed; read the nomination and any other comments carefully before you contribute to the discussion. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

If you have any questions, please leave a comment here and prepend it with. And don't forget to sign your reply with. Thanks!

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 03:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

title: User talk:Myclob


text:
Talk:Lewis A. Pick

Untitled
This page was voted on for deletion at Votes for deletion/Lewis A. Pick. The consensus was to keep it. dbenbenn | talk 16:29, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:07, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lewis A. Pick


text:
Martin Classical Lectures

The Martin Classical Lectures is a function of the Charles Beebe Martin Foundation established at Oberlin College in Ohio.

Charles Beebe Martin was a professor of Classics and classical archaeology at the College from 1880 to 1925. The foundation was set up to honor his memory.

Works produced by the foundation
Lectures given at the foundation are collected and presented in volumes. Dates given are those of publication.

Volumes published by Harvard University Press

 * Volume 1, Louis E. Lord (1931)
 * Volume 2 Aspects of Social Behavior in Ancient Rome, Tenney Frank (1932)
 * Volume 3 Attic Vase-painting, Charles Seltman (1933)
 * Volume 4 Humanistic Value of Archaeology Rhys Carpenter (1933)
 * Volume 5 Greek Ideals and Modern Life, Sir. R. W. Livingstone (1935)
 * Volume 6 Five men; character studies from the Roman Empire, by Martin Percival (M. P.) Charlesworth (1936)
 * Volume 7 Early Greek elegists, Cecil Maurice (C. M.) Bowra (1938)
 * Volume 8 The Roman art of war under the republic, Frank E. Adcock (1940)
 * Volume 9 Epigraphica attica, Benjamin Dean Meritt (1940)
 * Volume 10 Archaic Attic gravestones, Gisela M. A. Richter (1944)
 * Volume 11 Greek personality in archaic sculpture, Georg Heinrich Karo (1948)
 * Volume 12 Thucydides and the world war, Louis E. Lord (1945)
 * Volume 13 Classical influences in Renaissance literature, Douglas Bush (1952)
 * Volume 14 Pindar and Aeschylus, John Huston Finley (1955)
 * Volume 15 Classics and Renaissance thought, Paul Oskar Kristeller (1955) and as Renaissance thought, the classic, scholastic and humanist strains (1961)
 * Volume 16 Ancient book illumination, Kurt Weitzmann (1959)
 * Volume 17 Boundaries of Dionysus; Athenian foundations for the theory of tragedy, Alfred Cary Schlesinger (1963)
 * Volume 18 Society and civilization in Greece and Rome, Victor Ehrenberg (1964)
 * Volume 19 Aristophanes and the comic hero, Cedric H. Whitman (1964)
 * Volume 20 Origin and early form of Greek tragedy, Gerald Else (1965)
 * Volume 21 The meaning of Stoicism, Ludwig Edelstein (1966)
 * Volume 22 Rubens and the classical tradition, Wolfgang Stechow (1968)
 * Volume 23 The Athenian aristocracy, 399 to 31 B.C., Paul Lachlan MacKendrick (1969)
 * Volume 24 Thucydides on the nature of power, A. G. (Arthur Geoffrey) Woodhead (1970)
 * Volume 25 Isis among the Greeks and Romans, Friedrich Solmsen (1979)
 * Volume 26 Tragedy and civilization : an interpretation of Sophocles, Charles Segal (1981)
 * Volume 27 Aristotle and the Renaissance, Charles B. Schmitt (1983)
 * Volume 28 Herodotean narrative and discourse, Mabel Lang (1984)
 * Volume 29 The art of Bacchylides, Anne Pippin Burnett (1985)
 * Volume 30 Homer and the Nibelungenlied : comparative studies in epic style Bernard Fenik (1986)

Volumes published by Princeton University Press

 * Man in the middle voice: name and narration in the Odyssey, John Peradotto (1990)

title: Martin Classical Lectures


text:
John Tempesta

John Tempesta (born September 26, 1964) is an American drummer known for his work in hard rock and heavy metal. He has been a member of British band the Cult since 2006. He is the brother of guitarist Mike Tempesta, who also had worked together in several projects.

Biography
Previously, Tempesta played with several bands including Exodus, Testament and White Zombie. He worked with former White Zombie singer Rob Zombie as a solo artist and served as drum technician for Charlie Benante, drummer for the heavy metal band Anthrax earlier in his career. He is referenced in Anthrax's rendition of "Friggin' in the Riggin'" (from their 1989 EP Penikufesin), with lyrics about the band's crew members. Additionally he also played the role of the "Not Man" during Anthrax's early live shows footage of which can be seen in the "Antisocial" music video.

In 1997 he had a brief tenure as the drummer for the band Prong before they disbanded later the same year.

In 2000, he played drums on the song "Meat", from Tony Iommi's self-titled solo album.

He played with the band Helmet in 2004–2005.

In October 2004, he recorded with the band Scum of the Earth. The band was composed of John and his brother Mike Tempesta who was formerly the guitarist of Powerman 5000, Riggs (former Rob Zombie guitarist), John Dolmayan (System of a Down), Seven, and Clay Campbell. They released Blah...Blah...Blah...Love Songs for the New Millennium, a pop-heavy release reminiscent of the White Zombie / Rob Zombie sound, produced by Ben Burkhardt at Belt of Orion Recording in Hollywood.

In February 2006, Tempesta was hired by the Cult. In April 2011, he recorded drum samples and MIDI grooves for a Toontrack expansion to drum emulation software EZdrummer, called Metal Machine EZX.

July 15, 2013, Tempesta finished his drum recordings for the project Temple of the Black Moon, a project with well-known artists from a variety of metal genres. Other members are: Dani Filth, Rob Caggiano and King Ov Hell. In the same year, he also drummed on Emphatic's album Another Life.

With Exodus

 * Impact is Imminent (1990)
 * Good Friendly Violent Fun (1991)
 * Force of Habit (1992)

With Testament

 * Low (1994)
 * First Strike Still Deadly (2001)
 * Live in London (2005)

With White Zombie

 * Astro Creep: 2000 (1995)

With Rob Zombie

 * Hellbilly Deluxe (1998)
 * The Sinister Urge (2001)
 * Past, Present & Future (2003)
 * The Best of Rob Zombie (2006)

With Helmet

 * Size Matters (2004)

With Scum of the Earth

 * Blah...Blah...Blah...Love Songs for the New Millennium (2004)

With The Cult

 * Born into This (2007)
 * Capsule EPs (2010)
 * Choice of Weapon (2012)
 * Hidden City (2016)

With Emphatic

 * Another Life (2013)

title: John Tempesta


text:
Madeira cake

Madeira cake is a sponge or butter cake in traditional British and Irish cookery.

Origin
It is sometimes mistakenly thought to originate from the Madeira Islands but was in fact named after Madeira wine from the islands, popular in England in the mid-1800s and often served with the cake. Madeirans produce their own traditional cake – bolo de mel, dark, spicy and honey flavoured – which is very different.

Cake
The cake has a firm yet light texture. It is eaten with tea or (occasionally) for breakfast and is traditionally flavoured with lemon. Nowadays, the English Madeira cake is often served with tea or liqueurs. Dating back to an original recipe in the 18th or 19th century, Madeira cake is similar to a pound cake or yellow cake. One of the earliest published recipes was by Eliza Acton in her Modern Cookery for Private Families (1845): "A Good Madeira Cake: Whisk four fresh eggs until they are as light as possible, then, continuing still to whisk them, throw by slow degrees the following ingredients in the order in which they are written: six ounces of dry pounded and sifted sugar; six of flour, also dried and sifted; four ounces of butter just dissolved, but not heated; the rind of a fresh lemon; and the instant before the cake is moulded beat well in the third of a teaspoonful of carbonate of soda: bake an hour in a moderate oven."

title: Madeira cake


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Epiadv

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Rossami (talk) 07:02, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Epiadv
Webcomic. It's been around for nearly two years, but has only about 25 episodes to its name. Article combines vanity and FAQ; comic's art style combines photographic faces with simple line drawing, and seems mainly about the author itself. Suspected vanity. Radiant! 16:33, Feb 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, vanity. Megan1967 23:55, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. nn — Xezbeth 19:03, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable sporadically updated webcomic. Vanity article.   — Gwalla | Talk 03:18, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. vanity, not notable. Bluemoose 14:38, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Epiadv


text:
Thomas Love Moore

Thomas Love Moore (died 1862) was a nineteenth-century congressman and lawyer from Virginia.

Born near Charles Town, Virginia, Moore pursued an academic course as a child, studied law and was admitted to the bar. He was elected a Democratic-Republican to the United States House of Representatives to fill a vacancy, serving from 1820 to 1823. Afterwards, Moore continued practicing law in Warrenton, Virginia and made the principal speech upon the visit of General La Fayette to the town on August 23, 1825. He died in Warrenton in 1862 and was interred there in Warrenton Cemetery.

title: Thomas Love Moore


text:
Judy Feld Carr

Judith Feld Carr, (born 1938) is a Canadian musicologist and human rights activist known for secretly bringing to freedom thousands of Jews out of Syria over a period of 28 years.

Biography
Judith "Judy" Feld Carr was born in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. She attained a Mus.Bac. in music education and the degrees of Mus.M. in both musicology and music education from the University of Toronto. Feld Carr taught high school music in Toronto for many years and also taught university musicology. She was a visiting lecturer at Yeshiva University in New York City, Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and Youngstown State University in Ohio. She also served as President of Beth Tzedec Congregation in 1982–83.

Rescue of Syrian Jewry
Feld Carr used funds from the Dr. Ronald Feld Fund for Jews in Arab Lands (established at Beth Tzedec Congregation, Toronto in 1973), donated privately, both to negotiate ransom for the release of Syrian Jews, from prisons inside Syria and for passports and visas, permitting them to leave, as well as smuggling others across borders and out of that country. The process took over 28 years, in complete secrecy to protect the lives of those in danger, as well as to protect the whole process. The majority of the Jews who were enabled to leave emigrated to Israel, New York, or South America. Feld Carr described the venture:

We were buying Jews, one by one, from a hostile government. It was the best-kept secret in the Jewish world.

Her work focused on creating cells with Syrians temporarily abroad (who almost invariably had to leave family members behind as sureties for their return), those who had escaped, and Syrians inside the country, including Jews, Christians, and Muslims, to develop a reliable and secure information network. The network used coded language, some of which involved Chinese cuisine and alcohol. Her codename was Gin, but she was also known as Mrs. Judy, or simply "the woman from Canada". Each Syrian Jew was rescued through individual bribes organized by Feld Carr. She recalled, "I bought them like you'd buy cattle...It was as crass and as disgusting a thing as anybody could have ever done." In certain cases, she arranged successful escapes when bribery failed.

Feld Carr facilitated the escape of at least 3,228 Syrian Jews. In addition, she provided money to assist families of those imprisoned and she was able to smuggle out of that country many rare Jewish religious articles, including the famous Damascus Codex, known as a "Keter" (Crown), which had been written in the 12th century in Italy, found its way to Castile, Constantinople, and eventually Damascus, where it had been kept in secret for some 500 years. It now rests in the Hebrew National Library on the campus of Hebrew University, Jerusalem. As the chair of the Canadian Jewish Congress's National Task Force for Syrian Jewry, she publicized the plight of Syrian Jewry, made representations to the Canadian government to admit Syrian Jews temporarily to Canada, and urged it to bring to the attention of the Syrian government its denial of civil and human rights to its Jewish population.

Part of her story is told in Harold Troper's book, The Ransomed of God: The Remarkable Story Of One Woman's Role in the Rescue of Syrian Jews,  republished by Lester, Mason & Begg under the title The Rescuer: The Amazing True Story of How One Woman Helped Save the Jews of Syria.

Awards and recognition
In June 2012, Feld Carr was one of the first six recipients of The Presidential Award of Distinction of the State of Israel. The Award was created by President Shimon Peres earlier that year, in order to "recognize outstanding contribution to the Jewish People and the State of Israel".

Feld Carr has received numerous other awards, including the Order of Canada; the Queen's Jubilee Medal in 2002; the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2012; the Abram Sachar Medal as "Woman of the Year", Brandeis University; the Saul Hayes Human Rights Award of the Canadian Jewish Congress; the Simon Wiesenthal Award for Tolerance, Justice and Human Rights; and the University of Haifa Humanitarian Award of Merit; Woman of Achievement Award of both Canadian Hadassah and B'nai B'rith Women; Dr Jane Evans Pursuit of Justice Award of Women of Reform Judaism of North America; co-honouree of the Jewish National Fund Negev Dinner, Toronto; Honouree of State of Israel Bonds, Toronto; co-honouree of the Human Rights Award of the Canadian Centre for Diversity. She has received the honorary degree of Doctor of Laws from Laurentian University and the honorary degree of Doctor of Humane Letters from the Jewish Theological Seminary, New York.

title: Judy Feld Carr


text:
Category:Haldane family

 * Scottish aristocrats.

It is difficult to trace the aristocratic Haldane Family roots back to one source, however, most information points back to Gleneagles, the ancestral residence of the family. Records show a presence here since 1265. Others, however, trace the aristocratic House of Haldane back to Admiral Adam Duncan, the famous Naval hero and compatriot to Lord Nelson. Admiral Duncan was born and raised in Scotland and later founded a city in Fife[?], on the border with Tayside, around his Camperdown Estate. With an extensive endowment bequeathed in Duncan's will, his Camperdown estate on outskirts of Dundee has since been converted into a large park, golf course and nature reserve.

Notable members include:
 * Alexander Chinnery-Haldane, Scottish episcopal bishop
 * A. R. B. Haldane, Scottish social historian, writer
 * Daniel Rutherford Haldane, Scottish physician
 * Elizabeth Haldane, first female Justice of the Peace in Scotland
 * Graeme Haldane, Scottish engineer
 * James Haldane, Scottish cleric
 * J. B. S. Haldane, British geneticist and evolutionary biologist
 * John Haldane, MP for Scotland in the 1st Parliament of Great Britain
 * Lord Richard Haldane, 1st Viscount Haldane, Lord Chancellor, "'Father of the Territorial Army'"
 * Robert Haldane
 * John Joseph Haldane, aristocrat; British philosopher; art critic; political commentator; papal advisor
 * James Aylmer Lowthorpe Haldane, British soldier
 * John Scott Haldane, British physician
 * Naomi Margaret Haldane, British writer
 * William Stowell Haldane, Crown Agent for Scotland

Almer de Haldane was a Scottish noble whose signature is found on the Ragman Rolls of King Edward I of England in 1296. Almer de Haldane later sided with King Robert the Bruce of Scotland during the Wars of Scottish Independence against the English.

The designation "de Haldane," at that time, indicated a territorial designation. It is quite possible that someone took the name "Haldane" from feudal tenure of an ecclesiastical barony. There was a "Barony of Halydean' in several shires. The hallowed abbot of these Norman monasteries was the dean of the monastery.  Grave stones around several abbeys show old names such as Halydean, Holydean, Halidene, Haldene, Haldane, Halidane, et cetera.  Corruptions such as Holden and others are likely to all have similar ancient Norman roots.

title: Category:Haldane family


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Beavers

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. However, depending on how the final decision concludes at Deletion_policy/Local_politicians, it may be appropriate to recreate the article either in whole or as a redirect. Rossami (talk) 07:02, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

William Beavers
This short-short stub reads "William Beavers is a Chicago Alderman." End of stub. How is notability being illustrated in this article and what makes it worthy of inclusion here on Wikipedia? Should it be kept or deleted? GRider\talk 16:41, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * See also: Deletion_policy/Local_politicians.
 * Delete, as per my previous votes on these. Megan1967 23:52, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect or expand. Meelar (talk) 04:24, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: not an article. Willing to reconsider if expanded. Wile E. Heresiarch 07:46, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Chicago aldermen. See also Deletion_policy/Local_politicians. Android79 00:52, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect - keep the redirect - David Gerard 12:51, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No evidence found that he meets the recommended criteria for inclusion of biographies.  Rossami (talk) 06:24, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No eveidence of notability. Indrian 04:31, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. (1) Local politicians aren't inherently notable, and there is no evidence of notability provided in the article; (2) It is marginally more than a sub-stub.  It is most likely that a person arriving at this article will already know that Beavers was a Chicago alderman, and be exasperated with Wikipedia for wasting his time.  In cases such as this, redlinks are superior to sub-stubs.  --BM 21:13, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
John Scott Haldane

John Scott Haldane (2 May 1860 – 14/15 March 1936) was a British physician physiologist and philosopher famous for intrepid self-experimentation which led to many important discoveries about the human body and the nature of gases. He also experimented on his son, the celebrated and polymathic biologist J. B. S. Haldane, even when he was quite young. Haldane locked himself in sealed chambers breathing potentially lethal cocktails of gases while recording their effect on his mind and body.

Haldane visited the scenes of many mining disasters and investigated their causes. When the Germans used poison gas in World War I, Haldane went to the front at the request of Lord Kitchener and attempted to identify the gases being used. One outcome of this was his invention of a respirator, known as the black veil.

Haldane's investigations into decompression sickness resulted in the concept of staged decompression, and the first reasonably reliable decompression tables, and his mathematical model is still used in highly modified forms for computing decompression schedules.

Background and family
Haldane was born in Edinburgh to Robert Haldane, whose father was Scottish evangelist James Alexander Haldane, and Mary Elizabeth Burdon-Sanderson, daughter of Richard Burdon-Sanderson and the granddaughter of Sir Thomas Burdon. His maternal uncle was the physiologist John Scott Burdon-Sanderson. He was the brother of Elizabeth Haldane, William Haldane and Richard Haldane, 1st Viscount Haldane.

Education
Haldane attended Edinburgh Academy, Edinburgh University and the Friedrich Schiller University of Jena. He graduated in medicine from Edinburgh University Medical School in 1884, after which he was a Demonstrator at University College, Dundee. From 1907 to 1913 he was a Reader in Physiology at Oxford University where his uncle, John Burdon-Sanderson, was Waynflete Professor of Physiology.

On 12 December 1891 he married Louisa Kathleen Coutts Trotter (1863–1961), daughter of Coutts Trotter FRGS and Harriet Augusta Keatinge. They had two children: the scientist J. B. S. Haldane and the author Naomi Mitchison. His nephew was the New Zealand doctor and public health administrator Robert Haldane Makgill.

Haldane also published his philosophical ideas about the true significance of biology.

Career
Haldane was Gifford Lecturer in the University of Glasgow, Fellow of New College, Oxford, from October 1901, and Honorary Professor of the University of Birmingham. Haldane received numerous honorary degrees. He was also President of the English Institution of Mining Engineers, a Member of the Order of the Companions of Honour, a Fellow of the Royal Society, a member of the Royal College of Physicians and of the Royal Society of Medicine.

Haldane became a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1897, was a Royal Medallist of the Society in 1916, was appointed Member of the Order of the Companions of Honour in 1928 for work on industrial disease, and was a Copley Medallist in 1934.

Death
Haldane died in Oxford at midnight on the night of 14 March/15 March 1936 of pneumonia. He had just returned from a trip he had undertaken to investigate cases of heat stroke in the oil refineries in Persia.

Sir Henry Newbolt wrote a poem called "For J. S. Haldane", published in his anthology A Perpetual Memory and other Poems in 1939.

Respiration and anaesthesia
Haldane was an international authority on ether and respiration and the inventor of the Black Veil Respirator, an early gas mask, during World War I.

He was also an authority on the effects of pulmonary diseases, such as silicosis caused by inhaling silica dust. After being forced out of combatting poison gases in World War I, through alleged German sympathies, he shifted into working with victims of gas warfare and developed oxygen treatment including the oxygen tent.

Haldane helped determine the regulation of breathing, and discovered the Haldane effect in haemoglobin: Deoxygenated haemoglobin has a greater affinity for carbon dioxide than oxygenated haemoglobin, so the release of oxygen from the capillaries to the tissues facilitates the removal of carbon dioxide in those capillaries, and in the lung capillaries the high oxygenation of the blood promotes the release of carbon dioxide to the plasma, which allows it to diffuse into the alveolar gas.

Haldane was the founder of The Journal of Hygiene.

Diving physiology
In 1907 Haldane had a decompression chamber made at the Lister Institute for his experimental work which was to help make underwater diving safer and produced the first decompression tables using his concept of stage decompression after extensive experiments with animals, and with divers in Scottish deep-water lochs. The decompression experiments examined the depth and pressure exposure, duration, and the pattern of decompression. Initial experiments used rabbits, guinea pigs, rats and mice, but the difficulty of detecting symptoms in the smaller animals led to the choice of goats, which were the largest animals easily available that were conveniently manageable in the available facilities. The mathematical model on which these tables were based, though considerably revised and modified, remains a widely accepted method of decompressing divers from non-saturation exposures. In 1908, Haldane published the findings with A. E. Boycott and G. C. C. Damant in the paper "Prevention of Compressed-Air Illness" in the Journal of Hygiene. He also found by experiment that part of the cause for divers losing consciousness while working at around 120 feet in standard helmets was a buildup of carbon dioxide in the helmet caused by insufficient ventilation, and established a minimum flow rate of 1.5 cuft per minute at ambient pressure.

Coal and other mining incidents
He investigated the principle of action of many different gases. He investigated numerous mine disasters, especially the toxic gases which killed most miners after firedamp and coal dust explosions. The toxic mixtures of gases found in mines included afterdamp, blackdamp and whitedamp. His description of the way a flame safety lamp can be used to detect firedamp by the increase in height of the flame, and chokedamp by the dying of the flame, is a classic exposition in his textbook, Respiration. Although electronic gas detectors are now used widely in all coal mines, flame lamps are still used extensively for their ease and simplicity of operation. He identified carbon monoxide as the lethal constituent of afterdamp, the gas created by combustion, after examining many bodies of miners killed in pit explosions. Their skin was coloured cherry-pink from carboxyhaemoglobin, the stable compound formed in the blood by reaction with the gas. It effectively displaces oxygen, and so the victim dies of asphyxia. As a result of his research, he was able to design respirators for rescue workers. He tested the effect of carbon monoxide on his own body in a closed chamber, describing the results of his slow poisoning.

In the late 1890s, Haldane introduced the use of small animals for miners to detect dangerous levels of carbon monoxide underground, either white mice or canaries. With a faster metabolism, they showed the effects of poisoning before gas levels became critical for the workers, and so gave an early warning of the problem. The canary in British pits was replaced in 1986 by the electronic gas detector. Electronic gas detectors rely on a catalytic chip which can be poisoned by atmospheric impurities.

Pike's Peak expedition
Haldane pioneered the study of the reaction of the body to low air pressures, such as that experienced at high altitudes. He led an expedition to Pike's Peak in 1911, which examined the effect of low atmospheric pressure on respiration. Since then, Pike's Peak has continued to be a site of research into respiration.

Sewer gas
In addition to his work on mine atmospheres, he investigated the air in enclosed spaces such as wells and sewers. One surprising result of his analysis of the air in the sewers beneath the House of Commons was to show that the level of bacterial contamination was relatively low. During this research, he investigated fatalities of workmen in a sewer, and showed that hydrogen sulfide gas poisoning was the cause of death.

Writings

 * J. S. Haldane, The Philosophical Basis of Biology: Donnellan Lectures, University of Dublin, 1930, Hodder and Stoughton Limited (1931).
 * J. S. Haldane and JG Priestley, Respiration, 2nd Ed, Oxford University Press (1935).
 * J. S. Haldane, The Philosophy of a Biologist, 2nd Ed, Oxford University Press (1936).

title: John Scott Haldane


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/La Li Lu Le Lo

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 16:11, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

La Li Lu Le Lo
This is trivial information from Metal Gear Solid 2. This article should be deleted and made into a redirect to Metal Gear Solid 2 The Patriots. Carrp | Talk 16:45, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Merge and redirect to The Patriots. DaveTheRed 23:01, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, fancruft. Megan1967 23:54, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Trivial pseudoinformation. jni 14:27, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Playcruft. --Bucephalus 14:41, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: gamecruft. Wile E. Heresiarch 17:03, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Like they said. Miss Pippa 22:10, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)