text:
Talk:Trevor Linden

Linden's surname
Where did Linden get the surname van der Linden? Was he born with it, and why did he get rid of it?

I think the game where Trevor Linden checked Jeff Norton through the glass should be referenced. Liface 21:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

"Where did Linden get the surname van der Linden? Was he born with it, and why did he get rid of it?" Is it possible that was his families name, and the family changed it? Possibly before he was ever born? Marcus1060 02:44, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, Nick Vander Linden was Trevor's grandfather, and he is the one who changed the family name to just "Linden" from the Dutch rendering. -J21

Anonymous Nickname Vandals
I know this is in vain, but: Could IP users please stop vandalizing/tampering with the nickname part of the infobox for Linden? Myself and others have had it revert it numerous times. Consensus would be 'Trev' and 'Captain Canuck' for nicknames. Someone seems keen on dubbing him 'The Purse', which isn't a term I've come across in 16 years of following his career. This section isn't how one or two fans or whoever refers to him in their own time. The nicknames are supposed to represent how a large number of the fanbase or observers refer to him commonly (or have in the past, as in 'Captain Canuck'). I won't bother dignifying other recent anonymous vandals by stating what they chose to call him. Check your adolescence at the door, please. Thanks.--Keefer4 01:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

No Personal Info ?
I have a friend who grew up in the Kits area and used to be Linden's neighbor. We were wondering as to Trevor's martial status but it doesn't seem to be available here, unlike most other Canuck biographies available. I suppose it could be someone related trying to preserve some degree of privacy ...

Anyone now if he has a family ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Panamajack (talk • contribs) 01:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

GA?
I suggest pulling the GA and go to FAC. I'm going to fiddle, a bit, with article, and I think it will pass FAC. Thoughts?  Maxim (talk)  00:34, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * While I would love to do it, and think that the article even has a chance, it doesn't pass my own views on how the article is. There just isn't enough information in the sections, nor enough to describe how much of a role Linden plays to Vancouver and the Canucks. Like other Canuck fans, I see Linden as something as a living god, as it were. My goal is to try and transplant that view into the article, and explain to the world why Vancouver, and Canuck fans everywhere, see Trevor in this role, as someone who could be elected Premier of BC if he ever were to run.
 * The GA nom is just to give me some more motivation towards attaining this goal. The article is getting up there, and its time it gets the recognition it deserves. Kaiser matias (talk) 03:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * GA noms take ridiculous amounts of time. I might as well review and make fixes without going through the bureaucratic hoopla of GAN and you/we can nominate this at FAC.   Maxim (talk)  19:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This whole thing is also compounded by the fact that I just sent my computer in to get fixed the other day. That will take a few weeks to do, and then I'm leaving on vacation for 6 weeks. As such, I don't think I will be able to do much to get the article ready before I leave at the end of the month. It will pass FA soon though, it just depends on how much work I can do on it and how fast. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:36, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a longshot to make the article an FA in 2-3 weeks.  Maxim (talk)  22:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Indeed it is possible, with the right amount of work. Might as well try and do it. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So this is what I more or less envision needing to happening for the article to reach FA status and satisfy my stringent views for the article:

All said, it isn't really that much work, just needs to be done. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Get Early life section a little more thorough, possibly another paragraph.
 * More detail about Linden's experiance through the '94 Finals, what he has called the best part of his career.
 * Actual information detailing the few years he spent with the Islanders, Canadiens, and Capitals.
 * Vastly expand his return to Vancouver.
 * Real paragraphs in the Personal section, rather than minor points.
 * New section that is a combination of Attachment to Vancouver and detail about his legacy with the team.
 * Create a section about his leadership, include his service with the NHLPA.
 * Make International play into 2 or 3 sections.

 * I'd love to help you guys out with this. A while back I was considering doing a re-write of this article, but someone beat me to it ;) I'll definately take a look at the international section and see what I can do. I think what I've done with Eric Brewer (ice hockey), a bit of a lesser know player, should speak to what I can contribute, so if there's anything in particular from that article that you guys think I might be able to help out with in this article, just give me a shout. I love hanging around a couple of newspaper databases that have a huge amount of info (basically gave me the beef of the Brewer article), so I can contribute some refs and such. I also think some lobbying over at Flickr for some better images is needed. Anyhow, lmk what you think, like I said I'd love to rewrite the international section. – Nurmsook! (talk) 23:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Look at some FAs of Linden's contemporaries. Like Ray Emery (obvious bias here, considering I wrote that. :-p)  Maxim (talk)  23:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm going to do a serious copyedit. The prose doesn't flow well. For tips, see User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a and User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a: redundancy exercises. I'm also going to make MOS check after the CE.   Maxim (talk)  00:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The prose issue would mostly be from me. I'm rather terrible at decent article writing, as I found from my Joe Sakic experiance. Everything else in regards to the writing, such as providing information and the like, I do fine, just not the writing. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Write more FAs, and you'll get better. Trust me, I have first-hand experience of doing it. :D  Maxim (talk)  00:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * As the copyeditor, I can say the article looks very, very good now, and quite comprehensive. Compared to similar FAs (Ray Emery, for instance]]) the proportions of the article section seem in tune, as well. I propose we send this straight to FAC.  Maxim (talk)  21:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * First off, thanks greatly for the work you've put into fine-tuning the article. Secondly, I think that it really just needs a little more work on the Return to Vancouver section, and the clean-up of the personal section. The Return part mostly just says what records he has set, and doesn't include anything else, and the personal section is just a bunch of one sentence paragraphs. I'll see what I can do to expand those sections over the weekend, and take it from there. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Good. I'm away, certainly Saturday-Sunday, and possibly Monday-Tuesday too. I'm also going to have a hellishly busy schedule next week, so this can wait. :-)   Maxim (talk)  23:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Can I suggest diminishing the paragraph written on Linden's Masterton nomination at the end of the Return to Vancouver section? Seeing as how he didn't make it as one of the final three nominees, I don't think it is all too significant.  I can see how it is worth mentioning briefly, however. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 05:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree with that. I mostly added it as a way to explain his leadership. Over the next few days I'll probably create a new section that will serve that purpose much better; I'm envisioning something similar to what's already on Joe Sakic. Kaiser matias (talk) 06:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks really good now. I'll start the nom, and you can add yours just above mine, so you're the principal nom. ;-)  Maxim (talk)  13:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Featured article.. nice work guys. Especially impressive considering you were aiming for GA status to begin with. Cheers.. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 07:46, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Misspelled word in quote
The reference of Rud's Canucks Legends: Vancouver's Hockey Heroes should be checked to see if it has the typo abolutely instead of absolutely, since the misspelling is in the article's quote. -- Michael Devore (talk) 19:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is absolutely. Just an example of poor typing on my behalf. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Today's featured article on the Main page
I was hoping to request a main page featured article on October 9, 2008 for this article because that is when the Vancouver Canucks season starts. If you have any objections, please ask me. -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 01:23, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Seeing how the Canucks will probably retire Linden's jersey sometime this year, I was hoping to wait and try and go for that date. It would be the a perfect date, and possibly even lead to media attention in the Vancouver area (mention of how Wikipedia honours Linden as well as the Canucks). So probably wait until they announce the date of the retirement. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If they don't announce it before August 20, 2008, then use this date. -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 01:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Kaiser, I'm of course going to let you request his article for Today's main page article since you, of course really deserve it. I, of course, am not a main contributor but wished I was because I've been a really big Vancouer Canucks fans for around my whole life (like you I think). If you request for TFA, the article would be worth 4 points. If I do it (which I won't unless you don't want to), It'll be worth 3 points. -- K. Annoyomous  24  GO LAKERS! 06:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Since it was announced that Linden will have his jersey number retired, The date will be moved to, of course, December 17th, the date of the pre-game ceremony. -- K. Annoyomous  24  05:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Recent Edits
Before this turns into an edit war, I'll explain why I reverted your edits of a few days ago. Though before I do that, I just want to clarify that I have nothing to do with the IP who has been starting an edit war, I'm not that childish. Anyways: Thats why I reverted the edits the other day. Not that I'm against adding anything to the article, but what was added didn't really fit in with the article. Hopefully we can resove this without it turning into something ugly. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In regards to the additional information about the 1994 Finals, I would say that a lot of it is more appropriate to the relevant article. Further to that, the website used as a source is not exactly a reliable source, and the information about Tanguay being the next player to score 2 goals in a game 7 is rather trivial in an article about Linden.
 * About the Keenan/Messier stuff, I'm more concerned about the fact that its incorrect. While Quinn was fired first, Keenan was only hired after Renney was fired, and technically the GM position was shared between several executives with the Canucks, including Keenan. And the source provided doesn't show anything about Linden regretting giving the captaincy to Messier.

 * No hard feelings at all, indeed I would rather hear it from you rather an anon IP who is just reverting for the sake of trolling.
 * I did want to add information on the Quinn dismissal, as it didn't help that Linden lost support in management. I later realized that after Quinn gave up the head coach title, the Canucks went through a couple coaches before Keenan.
 * I think that this might be an okay interpretation from the CNNSI article: Linden did graciously give up the captaincy to Messier, later Linden described Messier's invasion of the dressing room as hostile. Perhaps there was no need for the word "regret". Of course, the most serious problem for Linden was his deteriorating relationship with Keenan. GoldDragon (talk) 00:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

GoldDragon (talk) 00:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
Since this is an article about a Canadian person, shouldn't it use Canadian spelling? I am specifically wondering about the spelling of "honor" instead of "honour" in the Jerome Iginla quotation (he is also Canadian). Eiad77 (talk) 13:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * My guess is that when the quote was added it was lifted it straight from the source here. Weird thing is that this is from Canucks.com and for some unknown reason they did use the American spelling of "honor" and not the Canadian "honour". That said I'm not opposed to having it changed to the Canadian. IMO it does nothing to change the quote and it would be consistent with the way things are spelled throughout the rest of the article.--Mo Rock...Monstrous (leech44) 16:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Since it's spelled that way in the quote, I will just leave it though.130.15.37.180 (talk) 16:53, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Trevor Linden


text:
Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive langage skills

Poor command of language
Amir had appended following bit to the early years
 * The fact that he had no formal schooling may explain why his writings, both in Persian and in Arabic, are noticeably substandard, in terms of the command of the langauge. It is nevertheless curious that a "nobleman in the court of the Persian King" would not provide formal schooling for his son.

I moved it down to the section on the books and re-adjusted the sentences somewhat. Reason for the move was that a longer discussion of the literary merits of his language would have interrupted the flow and would have been out of place there. At the same time, I assume Amir wanted to throw doubt on Baha'ullah's aristocratic background. Fine, I am the last person to be able to comment on this, but it should be explicit e.g. "Some historians (names and sources) doubt this account and believe he is from a much humbler background than made out. Reasons quoted are... " The lack of adequate literacy might then well re-appear, but if this is all there is then it should be rather debated where his literary works are mentioned and discussed, unless the doubts in the aristocratic upbringing are made explicit. BTW - any sources for your judgement on his literary skills, Amir? Refdoc 09:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I was under the distinct impression that it was Baha'u'llah's exquisit command of both Persian and Arabic that so many have enjoyed AND why it has be exhibited in a fair few non-Baha'i museums around the world. Definitely POV though. -- Tomhab 10:24, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Your distinct impression is probably not good enough, though if you could find evidence for the "enjoyment" by non-Bahai Farsi speakers? Refdoc 11:55, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tom, I know you will think that I am exaggerating this, because you think I dislike Bahaism. Nevertheless, I will speak the truth. Bahaullah's Persian not only isn't high level and charming, in fact it is like the language of a half-literate mullah. It is far from a high class literary language, or showing any sort of literary talent. Furthermore, his Persian is filled with bombastic, odd or obscure Arabic words (mostly the kind of words you would learn from the Howza or in certain Sufi circles) and even by standards of the 19th century Persian, his language is over arabicized. As for his Arabic writings, his numerous Arabic mistakes have also been subject of significant ricidule, although his Arabic mistakes were not as obvious or as funny as the ones made by the Báb in his Arabic Bayan. --Amir 17:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Amir's insertion about Baha'u'llah's schooling and literary skills is contradicted by scholarly comment and should be removed. The following two quotes are from "Scripture as Literature", by Frank Lewis, in Research Notes in Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Studies,Vol. 3, no. 2 (April 1999) http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/notes/vol3/scripture.lit.htm :
 * "Read as a philosophical or mystical genre of literature, as many secular non-believing people now read the Bible or the Qur'an, several of the works of Baha'u'llah are of a literary quality that ought to secure for them a place in the pantheon of 19th century Persian and Arabic literature."

 * "Though not formally educated in a *madreseh*, Baha'u'llah was tutored at home..."

Home tutoring in the nineteenth century was not unusual for those that could afford it and could not be assumed to result in a poor education. Also, though Amir may not appreciate the source, the following is from para 25 of the Universal House of Justice's introduction to the Kitab-i-Aqdas:
 * "Baha'u'llah enjoyed a superb mastery of Arabic, and preferred to use it in those Tablets and other Writings where its precision of meaning was particularly appropriate to the exposition of basic principle. Beyond the choice of language itself, however, the style employed is of an exalted and emotive character, immensely compelling, particularly to those familiar with the great literary tradition out of which it arose." --Occamy 14:46, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks Occammy. The comments on "home tutoring" somehow remind me of Jane Eyre and Victorian governesses, which was often the choice for rich or aristocratic families in Victorian England.  I don't know the details of the differences for high class Persians as opposed to British nobs, but it seems like an apt comparison to me.  Nice to see someone doing a bit of research before editing here... - PaulHammond 16:39, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * It's funny, every time I have introduce a new FACT about Bahaism or Bahaullah that was not favourable from the Bahai point of view, a new user ID was created to "refute" my facts with "authentic sources". I would like to point out that this new ID, Occamy was created yesterday shortly after my new additions to the article, and his ONLY involvement in wikipedia, as of the time of this writing, has been in this discussion area. --Amir 19:08, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * And this is about Frank Lewis, from his own employer's profile: "Lewis, who was born in Virginia and raised in southern California, first became interested in Rumi—and Persian in general—for religious reasons. A member of the Bahá’í Faith, Lewis wanted to read the religion’s original texts, which are in Persian and Arabic. As an undergrad, he majored in Persian and Arabic, thus becoming an expert on a country (Iran) he has never visited." --- so he is a Bahai and he learned Persian and Arabic out of his interest in Bahaism.  Now, learning Persian and Arabic in USA at an undergraduate level, I guess makes him such an authority to determine Bahaullah's Persian and Arabic writings are at what level !!  Give me a break.  This guy can probably hardly speak either Persian or Arabic, or write a paragraph all by himself at a mediocre level in those langauges. Anyway, he is a Bahai.  --Amir 19:41, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would probably also discount the second source as being biased. The first one is authorative. WRT home schooling then I think the first paragraph re early years must be altered too. Refdoc 17:22, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The claim above that Bahaullah's Persian works ought to secure for them a place in the pantheon of 19th century Persian and Arabic literature. is truly funny. His Persian is not even at the level of an average mullah. The good thing is that his works are abailable online. As for his Arabic, his Arabic was clearly that of a person who in his mind directly translates from Persian to Arabic, and in the process makes numerous construction mistakes. I can give you numerous examples of that. --Amir 17:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If you think, that Mullahs speak good Farsi....WRT numerous examples - this would be completly pointless as you then simply try to put your authority as a master of literary Arabic against that of the man quoted above. More fruitful would be - and indeed re-open the debate on this subject - iof you could support your claim with other authorities. If you are a master of literary Arabic indeed than this should be easily done. At the moment the case is simply shut. Refdoc 17:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * You had better stay out of this discussion since you have already shown your incompetence. In a span of less than 24 hours, you made changes to the article which said "his writing were poor" and "were superb" .... without even having examined any of this writings yourself (assuming you can even read his works in the original).  So it is best if you stop making a fool of yourself publicly again.  --Amir 17:57, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Excuse me Mr. IQ, "not even at the level of an average mullah" implies that I think Mullahs know good Persian? It is quite the contrary. --Amir 18:13, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

-

Amir - please cease using personal attacks! It is perfectly possible to contribute to an article without knowing the subject well or even at all. You do this all the time. Trouble is there are ways of doing this in a useful way and there are other ways. You chose other ways so far. The point is knowing which questions to ask, by ironing out poor formulations, by recognising POV for what it is etc.

WRT changing from "bad" to "good" - what I have done should be abundantly clear to anyone who has a single synapsis working - I have taken your edit, straightened its language, put it into the place where the final verdict on the question raised would end up (literary skills next to the list of his books) and raised the question here on the talk page. As it is you have not come back with one bit of evidence for your edit, while Occamy delivered what was required - an authorative quote.

The next step forward could be sooo simple. You - or someone else brings a referenced quote saying essentially "Prof. A from the the Arabic Literature Department, University of B, examined the verb constructions of Bahahullah in the Book XYZ and realised that 30% of teh time the wrong tense was used". Bang! The sentence in the article would change to

 * The literary quality of the Baha'ullah's writings is subject to intense debate. While some authorities feel his writings are of high quality, others have shown on in-depth examination of certain of his books numerous grammatical and stylistical mistakes.

You are writing so grandiously about your love for the open source process on your user page. are you even aware of what this means??? Gradual improvements of a text, by adding and counterbalancing it with referenced detail??? Refdoc 18:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * There have been numerous scholarly works poiting out to Bahaullah's gross Arabic mistakes. One of the best examples is the late Ahmad Kasravi's book "Bahaigari". Kasravi had a scientific, scholarly and critical mind and his works were always methodical and reasoned, not just expression of personal opinions.  His books (particularly his criticism of Shia islam) are banned in the Islamic Republic of Iran.  So he was not "attacking" bahais, because he was some sort of muslim zealot.  His approach is methodical, logical and with examples.  That is just one of many books.  But what did you do?  Without any competence on this matter, you decide on your own that you can shift the article and vacillate any which way you want, depending on your mood, I guess. Open source does not mean that you should contribute when you have no competence on a given subject.  It means you should contribute where you have some knowledge.  Your increasing involvement in the two bahai articles seems to be more out of obstinacy and argumentativeness rather than out of competence on the subject matter.  --Amir 18:39, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

--- Amir, you still do not get it. I took your edit and put it onto the location where it should be. I asked you for sources - which you in (until just now) typical manner did not bring. Others brought sources. The first sources. Subsequently the next draft reflected solely these sources. You start editwarring. This is so utterly pointless. Now finally you have brought a verifyable source. Thanks. The right step forward now is not' to change everything to "the man writes bad Arabic", but to show that there is a debate and a difference in opinion between scholars. NPOV. To make this now easier to follow for those who do not know of Kasravi, give some more references, particularly some English language website would be a great addition. Refdoc 18:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive langage skills


text:
Gerrit Boon

Gerrit Boon (May 15, 1768 in Delft – December 2, 1821 in Gouda) was the son of a Lutheran minister Johan Michiel Boon. His father studied in Helmstedt and moved in 1752 from Amersfoort to Delft and in 1774 to Rotterdam. Gerrit Boon became a sugar refinerer in the city, working for his brother-in-law. He went to the United States in 1790 where he met with John Lincklaen.

In 1792, he bought 30000 acre near the West Canada Creek. Then he moved to a cabin near Cincinnati and Steuben Creek. Boon believed that harvesting maple syrup could be a year-round activity, so slavery on the sugar plantations could be avoided. In 1794, he gave up the sugar refinery.

Boon worked to develop company lands in New York, first settling in the town of Trenton, New York, where he founded the village now known as Barneveld. Also the Village of Boonville and the Town of Boonville in Oneida County, New York are named after him. He had a budget of $30,000 ($ in dollars) to hire carpenters, masons and other workmen to create a village for the affluent. Boon's efforts were unsuccessful due in part to incomplete knowledge of the region and bad luck. He built a dam and a mill that were washed away by flood waters in 1797.

In 1798, Boon returned to Holland. His assistant Adam Gerard Mappa took over as the agent of the Holland Land Company and lived in his house until 1809, today called Mappa Hall in Barneveld, New York. In 1804 he married Debora Aeneae, the daughter of an Amsterdam professor in mathematics. In 1813 the couple divorced in Amsterdam, living at Singel (Amsterdam). Boon left Holland and moved to Heeswijk, North Brabant, but died with small debts at the local shops, and wine dealers in Gouda.

title: Gerrit Boon


text: User talk:205.211.50.10

title: User talk:205.211.50.10


text:
Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive language skills

 * Furthermore, in regards to his schooling "In his early life he had a relatively limited education (which was normal for the class from which he came). He learned horsemanship (he was known as a fine horseman), swordsmanship, poetry and calligraphy (he was also renowned as an excellent poet and calligrapher). His Islamic education was strictly non-technical, but despite this, his knowledge of Islam (and of other religions) was far beyond what could have been expected of someone from the wealthy governing class."   In general the BBC site confirms a lot of the stuff I removed in the past couple days.  NavidAzizi 22:36, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

Poor command of language
Amir had appended following bit to the early years
 * The fact that he had no formal schooling may explain why his writings, both in Persian and in Arabic, are noticeably substandard, in terms of the command of the langauge. It is nevertheless curious that a "nobleman in the court of the Persian King" would not provide formal schooling for his son.

I moved it down to the section on the books and re-adjusted the sentences somewhat. Reason for the move was that a longer discussion of the literary merits of his language would have interrupted the flow and would have been out of place there. At the same time, I assume Amir wanted to throw doubt on Baha'ullah's aristocratic background. Fine, I am the last person to be able to comment on this, but it should be explicit e.g. "Some historians (names and sources) doubt this account and believe he is from a much humbler background than made out. Reasons quoted are... " The lack of adequate literacy might then well re-appear, but if this is all there is then it should be rather debated where his literary works are mentioned and discussed, unless the doubts in the aristocratic upbringing are made explicit. BTW - any sources for your judgement on his literary skills, Amir? Refdoc 09:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I was under the distinct impression that it was Baha'u'llah's exquisit command of both Persian and Arabic that so many have enjoyed AND why it has be exhibited in a fair few non-Baha'i museums around the world. Definitely POV though. -- Tomhab 10:24, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Your distinct impression is probably not good enough, though if you could find evidence for the "enjoyment" by non-Bahai Farsi speakers? Refdoc 11:55, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tom, I know you will think that I am exaggerating this, because you think I dislike Bahaism. Nevertheless, I will speak the truth. Bahaullah's Persian not only isn't high level and charming, in fact it is like the language of a half-literate mullah. It is far from a high class literary language, or showing any sort of literary talent. Furthermore, his Persian is filled with bombastic, odd or obscure Arabic words (mostly the kind of words you would learn from the Howza or in certain Sufi circles) and even by standards of the 19th century Persian, his language is over arabicized. As for his Arabic writings, his numerous Arabic mistakes have also been subject of significant ricidule, although his Arabic mistakes were not as obvious or as funny as the ones made by the Báb in his Arabic Bayan. --Amir 17:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Amir's insertion about Baha'u'llah's schooling and literary skills is contradicted by scholarly comment and should be removed. The following two quotes are from "Scripture as Literature", by Frank Lewis, in Research Notes in Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Studies,Vol. 3, no. 2 (April 1999) http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/notes/vol3/scripture.lit.htm :
 * "Read as a philosophical or mystical genre of literature, as many secular non-believing people now read the Bible or the Qur'an, several of the works of Baha'u'llah are of a literary quality that ought to secure for them a place in the pantheon of 19th century Persian and Arabic literature."

 * "Though not formally educated in a *madreseh*, Baha'u'llah was tutored at home..."

Home tutoring in the nineteenth century was not unusual for those that could afford it and could not be assumed to result in a poor education. Also, though Amir may not appreciate the source, the following is from para 25 of the Universal House of Justice's introduction to the Kitab-i-Aqdas:
 * "Baha'u'llah enjoyed a superb mastery of Arabic, and preferred to use it in those Tablets and other Writings where its precision of meaning was particularly appropriate to the exposition of basic principle. Beyond the choice of language itself, however, the style employed is of an exalted and emotive character, immensely compelling, particularly to those familiar with the great literary tradition out of which it arose." --Occamy 14:46, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks Occammy. The comments on "home tutoring" somehow remind me of Jane Eyre and Victorian governesses, which was often the choice for rich or aristocratic families in Victorian England.  I don't know the details of the differences for high class Persians as opposed to British nobs, but it seems like an apt comparison to me.  Nice to see someone doing a bit of research before editing here... - PaulHammond 16:39, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * It's funny, every time I have introduce a new FACT about Bahaism or Bahaullah that was not favourable from the Bahai point of view, a new user ID was created to "refute" my facts with "authentic sources". I would like to point out that this new ID, Occamy was created yesterday shortly after my new additions to the article, and his ONLY involvement in wikipedia, as of the time of this writing, has been in this discussion area. --Amir 19:08, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * And this is about Frank Lewis, from his own employer's profile: "Lewis, who was born in Virginia and raised in southern California, first became interested in Rumi—and Persian in general—for religious reasons. A member of the Bahá’í Faith, Lewis wanted to read the religion’s original texts, which are in Persian and Arabic. As an undergrad, he majored in Persian and Arabic, thus becoming an expert on a country (Iran) he has never visited." --- so he is a Bahai and he learned Persian and Arabic out of his interest in Bahaism.  Now, learning Persian and Arabic in USA at an undergraduate level, I guess makes him such an authority to determine Bahaullah's Persian and Arabic writings are at what level !!  Give me a break.  This guy can probably hardly speak either Persian or Arabic, or write a paragraph all by himself at a mediocre level in those langauges. Anyway, he is a Bahai.  --Amir 19:41, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would probably also discount the second source as being biased. The first one is authorative. WRT home schooling then I think the first paragraph re early years must be altered too. Refdoc 17:22, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The claim above that Bahaullah's Persian works ought to secure for them a place in the pantheon of 19th century Persian and Arabic literature. is truly funny. His Persian is not even at the level of an average mullah. The good thing is that his works are abailable online. As for his Arabic, his Arabic was clearly that of a person who in his mind directly translates from Persian to Arabic, and in the process makes numerous construction mistakes. I can give you numerous examples of that. --Amir 17:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

If you think, that Mullahs speak good Farsi....WRT numerous examples - this would be completly pointless as you then simply try to put your authority as a master of literary Arabic against that of the man quoted above. More fruitful would be - and indeed re-open the debate on this subject - iof you could support your claim with other authorities. If you are a master of literary Arabic indeed than this should be easily done. At the moment the case is simply shut. Refdoc 17:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * You had better stay out of this discussion since you have already shown your incompetence. In a span of less than 24 hours, you made changes to the article which said "his writing were poor" and "were superb" .... without even having examined any of this writings yourself (assuming you can even read his works in the original).  So it is best if you stop making a fool of yourself publicly again.  --Amir 17:57, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Excuse me Mr. IQ, "not even at the level of an average mullah" implies that I think Mullahs know good Persian? It is quite the contrary. --Amir 18:13, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

-

Amir - please cease using personal attacks! It is perfectly possible to contribute to an article without knowing the subject well or even at all. You do this all the time. Trouble is there are ways of doing this in a useful way and there are other ways. You chose other ways so far. The point is knowing which questions to ask, by ironing out poor formulations, by recognising POV for what it is etc.

WRT changing from "bad" to "good" - what I have done should be abundantly clear to anyone who has a single synapsis working - I have taken your edit, straightened its language, put it into the place where the final verdict on the question raised would end up (literary skills next to the list of his books) and raised the question here on the talk page. As it is you have not come back with one bit of evidence for your edit, while Occamy delivered what was required - an authorative quote.

The next step forward could be sooo simple. You - or someone else brings a referenced quote saying essentially "Prof. A from the the Arabic Literature Department, University of B, examined the verb constructions of Bahahullah in the Book XYZ and realised that 30% of teh time the wrong tense was used". Bang! The sentence in the article would change to

 * The literary quality of the Baha'ullah's writings is subject to intense debate. While some authorities feel his writings are of high quality, others have shown on in-depth examination of certain of his books numerous grammatical and stylistical mistakes.

You are writing so grandiously about your love for the open source process on your user page. are you even aware of what this means??? Gradual improvements of a text, by adding and counterbalancing it with referenced detail??? Refdoc 18:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * There have been numerous scholarly works poiting out to Bahaullah's gross Arabic mistakes. One of the best examples is the late Ahmad Kasravi's book "Bahaigari". Kasravi had a scientific, scholarly and critical mind and his works were always methodical and reasoned, not just expression of personal opinions.  His books (particularly his criticism of Shia islam) are banned in the Islamic Republic of Iran.  So he was not "attacking" bahais, because he was some sort of muslim zealot.  His approach is methodical, logical and with examples.  That is just one of many books.  But what did you do?  Without any competence on this matter, you decide on your own that you can shift the article and vacillate any which way you want, depending on your mood, I guess. Open source does not mean that you should contribute when you have no competence on a given subject.  It means you should contribute where you have some knowledge.  Your increasing involvement in the two bahai articles seems to be more out of obstinacy and argumentativeness rather than out of competence on the subject matter.  --Amir 18:39, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

--- Amir, you still do not get it. I took your edit and put it onto the location where it should be. I asked you for sources - which you in (until just now) typical manner did not bring. Others brought sources. The first sources. Subsequently the next draft reflected solely these sources. You start editwarring. This is so utterly pointless. Now finally you have brought a verifyable source. Thanks. The right step forward now is not' to change everything to "the man writes bad Arabic", but to show that there is a debate and a difference in opinion between scholars. NPOV. To make this now easier to follow for those who do not know of Kasravi, give some more references, particularly some English language website would be a great addition. Refdoc 18:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text:
Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board

The Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board (FPSLREB; Commission des relations de travail et de l’emploi dans le secteur public fédéral, LCRTESPF) is an independent quasi-judicial tribunal that administers the collective bargaining and "grievance adjudication systems" in Canada's federal public service and in Parliament.

It formed on 1 November 2014 through the merger of the former Public Service Labour Relations Board and the former Public Service Staffing Tribunal. It resolves labour relations issues and staffing complaints among federal public servants through adjudication and mediation.

History
The Public Service Labour Relations Board (Commission des relations de travail dans la fonction publique) was an independent quasi-judicial statutory tribunal that reported to Parliament through the Minister of Public Services and Procurement. It was responsible for administering the collective bargaining and grievance adjudication systems in the federal public service and in Parliament. Moreover, by agreement with the Government of the Yukon, the Board also administered the collective bargaining and grievance adjudication systems under the Yukon Education Staff Relations Act and the Yukon Public Service Staff Relations Act.

In 2003, a new Public Service Labour Relations Act was passed by Parliament (S.C. 2003, c.22), coming into force on 1 April 2005. In 2014, the Board was merged with the Public Service Staffing Tribunal under the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board Act to form the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board. As such, today's Board is responsible for the duties that were previously dealt with by the former tribunals under the Public Service Labour Relations and Employment Board Act and the Public Service Employment Act, respectively.

Members
The Board is composed of a chairperson, up to 2 vice-chairpersons, up to 12 full-time members, and additional part-time members as required. The Governor in Council appoints full-time Board members for terms of no longer than 5 years and part-time Board members for terms of up to 3 years, and may be re-appointed any number of times.

, full-time members include:

 * Edith Bramwell, Chairperson
 * Marie-Claire Perrault, Vice-chairperson
 * Amélie Lavictoire, Vice-chairperson
 * Adrien Bieniasiewicz
 * Pierre-Marc Champagne
 * Caroline Engmann
 * Goretti Fukamusenge
 * Bryan R. Gray
 * Patricia Harewood
 * Chantal Homier-Nehmé
 * John G. Jaworski
 * Audrey Lizotte
 * Christopher Rootham
 * Nancy Rosenberg

Legislation and clients
Under the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board Act, the Board is responsible for interpreting and applying the following legislation:

 * Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act (FPSLRA) — Collective bargaining and grievance adjudication systems for the federal public sector and Parliament, as well as RCMP members and reservists.
 * Public Service Employment Act (PSEA) — Complaints related to internal appointments, appointment revocations, and lay-offs in the federal public service.
 * Canadian Human Rights Act — Human rights issues in grievances and complaints under FPSLRA and PSEA.
 * Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act — Collective bargaining and grievance adjudication for the institutions of Parliament.
 * Public Sector Equitable Compensation Act — Pay equity complaints in the federal public service. This Act is to be repealed and replaced by the Pay Equity Act, which received royal assent on 13 December 2018 but is not yet in force.
 * Canada Labour Code, Part II — Complaints related to workplace health and safety and reprisals in the federal public service.

The Treasury Board of Canada, employing over 180,000 public servants in 27 bargaining units, is the main employer covered by the Board's mandate. The majority (60%) of unionized federal public service employees are represented by the Public Service Alliance of Canada, while 23% are represented by the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada as the second-largest bargaining agent, and 17% are represented by the other 25 bargaining units.


text:
Waray literature

Earliest accounts of this literature date back to 1668 when a Spanish Jesuit by the name of Fr. Francisco Ignacio Alzina documented the poetic forms such as the candu, haya, ambahan, canogon, bical, balac, siday and awit. He also described the susumaton and posong, early forms of narratives. Theater tradition was very much in place - in the performance of poetry, rituals, and mimetic dances. Dances mimed the joys and activities of the ancient Waray.

With three centuries of Spanish colonization and another period of American occupation, old rituals, poetic forms and narratives had undergone reinvention. A case in point is the balac, a poetic love joust between a man and a woman. According to Charo N. Cabardo, a Waray Historian, the balac retained its form even as it took new names and borrowed aspects of the languages of the colonizers. During the Spanish period, the balac was called the amoral; during the American occupation, it was renamed ismayling, a term derived from the English word "smile." According to a literary investigator, in certain areas of Samar, the same balac form or ismayling has been reinvented to express anti-imperialist sentiments where the woman represents the motherland and the man, the patriot who professes his love of country.

The 1900s to the 1950s
Modern East Visayan literature, particularly Waray, revolves around poetry and drama produced between the 1900s and the present. The flourishing economy of the region and the appearance of local publications starting in 1901 with the publication of An Kaadlawon, the first Waray newspaper, saw the flourishing of poetry in Waray.

In Samar, Eco de Samar y Leyte, a long running magazine in the 1900s, published articles and literary works in Spanish, Waray and English. A noteworthy feature of this publication was its poetry section, An Tadtaran, which presented a series of satirical poems that attacked the changing values of the people at the time. Eco likewise published occasional and religious poems.

In Leyte, An Lantawan, which has extant copies from 1931 to 1932, printed religious and occasional poetry. It also published satirical poems of Bagong Katipunero, Luro, Datoy Anilod, Marpahol, Vatchoo (Vicente I. de Veyra), Julio Carter (Iluminado Lucente), Ben Tamaka (Eduardo Makabenta), and Kalantas (Casiano Trinchera). Under these pseudonyms, poets criticized corrupt government officials, made fun of people’s vices, and attacked local women for adopting modern ways of social behavior.

With the organization of the Sanghiran san Binisaya in 1909, writers as well as the illustrados in the community banded together for the purpose of cultivating the Waray language. Under the leadership of Norberto Romualdez Sr, Sanghiran's members had literary luminaries that included Iluminado Lucente, Casiano Trinchera, Eduardo Makabenta, Francisco Alvarado, Juan Ricacho, Francisco Infectana, Espiridion Brillo, and statesman and first elected Governor of the Province of Leyte, Jaime C. de Veyra. For a time, Sanghiran was responsible for the impetus it gave to new writing in the language.

The period 1900 to the late fifties witnessed the finest Waray poems of Casiano Trinchera, Iluminado Lucente, Eduardo Makabenta, and the emergence of the poetry of Agustin El O'Mora, Pablo Rebadulla, Tomas Gomez Jr., Filomeno Quimbo Singzon, Estrella Pacuan, Pedro Separa, Francisco Aurillo, and Eleuterio Ramoo. Trinchera, Lucente, and Makabenta were particularly at their best when they wrote satirical poetry.

Post 1950s
The growing acceptance of English as official language in the country strengthened these writers’ loyalty to the ethnic mother tongue as their medium for their art. The publication of Leyte News and The Leader in the twenties, the first local papers in English, brought about the increasing legitimization of English as a medium of communication, the gradual displacement of Waray and eventual disappearance of its poetry from the pages of local publications.

Where local newspapers no longer served as vehicles for written poetry in Waray, the role was assumed by MBC's DYVL and local radio stations in the seventies. Up to the present time, poetry sent to these stations are written mostly by local folk - farmers, housewives, lawyers, government clerks, teachers, and students. A common quality of their poetry is that they tend to be occasional, didactic, and traditional in form. The schooled writers in the region, unlike the local folk poets, do not write in Waray nor Filipino. Most of them write in English although lately there has been a romantic return to their ethnic mother tongue as the medium for their poetry.

Waray drama was once a fixture of town fiestas. Its writing and presentation were usually commissioned by the hermano mayor as part of festivities to entertain the constituents of the town. Town fiestas in a way sustained the work of the playwright. In recent years, this is no longer the case. If ever a play gets staged nowadays, it is essentially drawn from the pool of plays written earlier in the tradition of the hadi-hadi and the zarzuela.

According to Filipinas, an authority on the Waray zarzuela, the earliest zarzuela production involved that of Norberto Romualdez' An Pagtabang ni San Miguel, which was staged in Tolosa, Leyte in 1899. The zarzuela as a dramatic form enthralled audiences for its musicality and dramatic action. Among the noteworthy playwrights of this genre were Norberto Romualdez Sr., Alfonso Cinco, Iluminado Lucente, Emilio Andrada Jr., Francisco Alvarado, Jesus Ignacio, Margarita Nonato, Pedro Acerden, Pedro Separa, Educardo Hilbano, Moning Fuentes, Virgilio Fuentes, and Agustin El O'Mora.

Of these playwrights, Iluminado Lucente stands out in terms of literary accomplishment. He wrote about thirty plays and most of these dealt with domestic conflicts and the changing mores of Waray society during his time. Although a number of his longer works tend to be melodramatic, it was his satirical plays that are memorable for their irony and humor, the tightness of their plot structure, and the specious use of language.

The hadi-hadi antedates the zarzuela in development. It used to be written and staged in many communities of Leyte as part of town fiesta festivities held in honor of a Patron Saint. It generally dealt with Christian and Muslim kingdoms at war. Today one hardly hears about hadi-hadi being staged even in the Cebuano speech communities of the region.

Fiction in Waray has not flourished because it lacks a venue for publication.

title: Waray literature


text:
User:Samboy/VFD:IP

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 19:55, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

Imperial Post
It's the postal service of a micronation. No google hits excluding wikipedia for the "The Empire of Upper and Lower" micronation. Bogdan | Talk 08:37, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Whatcha up to today?" - "Not much, you?" - "Not much." - "Reckon we should start ourselves up a fake soverign nation up on that there Internet?" - "I reckon." - I reckon we should delete this nonsense. Starblind 10:04, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * On the Internet? In 1982?  --65.174.34.14 20:46, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - It seems like advertising. Certainly not notable. Venice 17:34, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete all micronations and anything associated with them. RickK 22:38, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe this article should be deleted, but your suggestion is facially absurd. Some micronations, such as Sealand, the Republic of Texas, &c. are obviously notable.  --Daniel C. Boyer 20:55, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable. Megan1967 01:35, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete this nn ad. Wyss 03:01, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fantasy issues are only of interest to a small minority of philatelists-- mostly those who create them.  Edeans 05:40, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notable, but I wouldn't mind buying one of their digital stamps! --Deathphoenix 04:39, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete—there's no way anyone designing stamps makes them look this bad. Stombs 10:38, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, obviously someone did design them, and obviously you think they "look this bad". So it's difficult to understand what you're getting at.  --Daniel C. Boyer 21:02, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: It is a rather common practice for local artists and printers to develop stamps, souvenir sheets and pictorial cancellations to be sold or given away at philatelic bourses.  These typically have some topical theme, usually not involving micronations.  I am unaware of any philatelic encyclopedia that would carry an article devoted to one particular fantasy issue, or set of issues, so why should it be expected that a general interest encyclopedia should?  Edeans 03:42, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * This may be true as far as it goes, but you seem not to have noticed that it says in the article that Imperial Post issues are not merely confined to these, but have also used for what is de facto local post (as well as airmail) deliveries. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:51, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: User:Samboy/VFD:IP


text:
User talk:Webbie~enwiki

Webbie ?
My nickname (given to me,in revenge I think, by a Vegetarian friend of mine I named Veggie) which has now become my persona in real life as everyone calls me by that now.

About
I am a website designer who got started out by doing a website for a popular beat combo from Liverpool (no not them) and friends of mine: A Flock Of Seagulls I learnt many webbie (sic) things from creating that site and now run the websites for a few other 80's band (for I am from that era) and advise on others.

Other artists under my watch: Kajagoogoo, Paul Reynolds, (the ex-guitarist, not the actor or BBC reporter.) Thompson Twins, China Crisis, and Blancmange.

External Link
-=The Webblog=- (My blog about anything media related.)

--Webbie 04:17, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Webbie. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Webbie~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 03:36, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 20:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Webbie~enwiki


text: User talk:68.236.60.239

title: User talk:68.236.60.239


text:
Chris Pallis

Christopher Agamemnon Pallis (2 December 1923 – 10 March 2005) was an Anglo-Greek neurologist and libertarian socialist intellectual. Under the pen-names Martin Grainger and Maurice Brinton, he wrote and translated for the British group Solidarity from 1960 until the early 1980s. As a neurologist, he produced the accepted criteria for brainstem death, and wrote the entry on death for Encyclopædia Britannica.

Life
Chris Pallis was born in Bombay to a prominent Anglo-Greek family, "of whose intellectual achievements he was always extremely proud". The poet Alexandros Pallis was a great-uncle, and so the writers Marietta Pallis and Marco Pallis were also relatives. His father Alex was general manager of the family firm of merchant bankers, Ralli Brothers; when he retired, he returned from India to settle in Switzerland. Educated there, Chris Pallis became fluent in French, English and Greek.

In 1940 the family managed to take the last boat out of France, and settled in England. Pallis went up to study medicine at Balliol College, Oxford in 1941. He joined the Communist Party of Great Britain, but he was quickly expelled for criticising its policy on the Second World War, and became a member of the Trotskyist Revolutionary Communist Party.

For the next 20 years he combined a distinguished medical career under his real name with pseudonymous revolutionary socialist writing and translation. After he was outed for his use of the name Martin Grainger in such left-wing journals as the New Statesman he changed his pseudonym. Subsequently his boss, Christopher Booth, defended him from further press criticism, saying that he was a fine neurologist entitled to his own political views.

Pallis's published works include several eyewitness accounts of key moments in European left politics, such as the Belgian general strike of 1960, Paris in May 1968 and Portugal's Carnation Revolution in 1974–75; a substantial body of English translations of works by Cornelius Castoriadis, the main thinker of the French group Socialisme ou Barbarie; and two short books of his own: The Bolsheviks and Workers' Control (1970) and The Irrational in Politics (1974), which is largely concerned with sexual politics.

The publishers of a recent online edition of The Bolsheviks and Workers' Control describe it as follows:

title: Chris Pallis


text:
Cowboy (disambiguation)

A cowboy is a professional pastoralist or mounted livestock herder, usually from the Americas or Australia.

Cowboy(s) or The Cowboy(s) may also refer to:

Film and television

 * Cowboy (1958 film), starring Glenn Ford
 * Cowboy (1966 film), a documentary
 * The Cowboys, a 1972 Western film starring John Wayne
 * Cowboy (2013 film), a Malayalam film starring Asif Ali and Bala
 * Cowboys (2013 film), a Croatian film
 * Les Cowboys, a 2015 French-Belgian drama film
 * Cowboys (2020 film), an American film
 * The Cowboys (TV series), a 1974 series based on the 1972 film
 * Cowboys (TV series), a British TV sitcom
 * "Cowboy" (M*A*S*H), a 1972 episode of M*A*S*H
 * Cowboy, a fictional gang member in The Warriors, a 1979 film and later video game

Groups

 * Cochise County Cowboys, an outlaw gang which participated in the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral
 * Cowboys, a group of Loyalist irregulars during the American Revolution led by Claudius Smith

Music

 * Cowboy (band), an American country rock band
 * Cowboy Records, an American record label
 * Cowboy (album), by Erasure, 1997
 * "Cowboy" (Kid Rock song), 1999
 * "Cowboy" (Ch!pz song), 2003
 * "Cowboy", a song by Billy Crawford from Big City
 * "Cowboy", a song by Bow Wow Wow from See Jungle! See Jungle! Go Join Your Gang Yeah, City All Over! Go Ape Crazy!
 * "Cowboy", a song by f(x) from the single "4 Walls"
 * "Cowboy", a song by Jon Spencer Blues Explosion from Orange
 * "Cowboy", a song by Lindemann from Skills in Pills
 * "Cowboy", a song by Randy Newman from Randy Newman
 * "Cowboy", a song by The Sugarcubes from Life's Too Good
 * "Cowboy", a song by Tyler, the Creator from Wolf
 * "Cowboy", a song by the Reklaws from Good Ol' Days, 2022
 * "Cowboys", a song by Slayyyter from Troubled Paradise

Sports teams

 * Alpine Cowboys, an American baseball team
 * Calgary Cowboys, a U.S.–Canadian ice hockey franchise
 * Dallas Cowboys, an American football team
 * McNeese State Cowboys, the men's athletic teams of McNeese State University
 * Munich Cowboys, an American football team in Germany
 * New Mexico Highlands Cowboys, the men's athletic teams of New Mexico Highlands University
 * North Queensland Cowboys, an Australian rugby league team
 * Oklahoma State Cowboys, the men's athletic teams of Oklahoma State University - Stillwater
 * Wyoming Cowboys, the men's athletic teams of the University of Wyoming

People with the nickname

 * Tommy Anderson (ice hockey) (1910–1971), Canadian National Hockey League player
 * Howard Blatchford (1912–1943), Canadian World War II flying ace
 * Jeff Brantley (born 1963), American baseball player and broadcaster
 * Neal Cassady (1926–1968), American Beat poet
 * Donald Cerrone (born 1983), American MMA fighter
 * Jack Clement (1931–2013), American singer, songwriter and record and film producer
 * Herbert Coward (born 1938), American actor
 * James Dahlman (1856–1930), American politician
 * Leroy Edwards (1914–1971), American basketball player
 * Cowboy Morgan Evans (1903–1969), American rodeo cowboy and oil field worker
 * Bill Flett (1943–1999), Canadian National Hockey League player
 * Curt Gowdy (1919–2006), American sportscaster
 * Cowboy Hill (American football) (1899–1966), American football player
 * Cowboy Jones (1874–1958), American baseball player
 * John McCormack (boxer) (1935–2014), Scottish boxer
 * Cowboy Jimmy Moore (1910–1999), American pocket billiards player
 * Kevin Neale (1945–2023), Australian rules footballer
 * Cowboy Troy (born 1970), American country rapper
 * Cowboy Slim Rinehart (1911–1948), American singer and radio broadcaster
 * Cowboy Saunders (1928–2006), South African rugby union player
 * Cowboy Wheeler (1898–1939), American football player and an original member of the Green Bay Packers
 * Byron Wolford (1930–2003), American rodeo cowboy and poker player

People with the ring name

 * Cowboy Lang, midget professional wrestler Harry Lang (1950–2007)
 * Alex Oliveira (fighter) (born 1988), Brazilian UFC fighter
 * Bob Orton Jr. (born 1950), American professional wrestler

People with the stage name

 * Cowboy Copas, American country music singer Lloyd Copas (1913–1963)
 * Keef Cowboy and Cowboy, stage names of Keith Wiggins (1960–1989), American hip hop artist and member of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five

Other uses

 * Cowboy Mountain, Washington, United States
 * Joe West (umpire) (born 1952), American baseball umpire nicknamed "Cowboy Joe"
 * Cowboy (comics), a Marvel Comics character
 * Cowboy (sex position), a type anal sex between two men
 * Cowboy (cocktail), a Prohibition-era cocktail made with whiskey and cream
 * Cowboy pool or just cowboy, a hybrid pool game
 * Cowboys (Heroscape), a type of hero in the wargame Heroscape
 * Cowboy, a 2014 novel by Finnish writer Reijo Mäki
 * Cowboy, a concept pickup by American Motors based on the AMC Hornet

title: Cowboy (disambiguation)


text:
Surf Stadium

Surf Stadium is a 5,500-seat baseball stadium in Atlantic City, New Jersey, that opened in 1998 and is now the home stadium of the Atlantic Cape Community College Buccaneers baseball team. The stadium was called The Sandcastle until 2006, and has continued to be referred to by that name in some sources. It was built as the home of the Atlantic City Surf baseball team, which discontinued operations prior to the 2009 season. Renovations were performed in 2011 and 2012. The stadium was officially renamed as Surf Stadium in April 2012, and hosted a few events in 2012. College and youth teams have also used the stadium, and a music concert was held there in 2011.

The stadium is located on Albany Avenue, near the eastern terminus of U.S. Routes 40 and 322 and several blocks inland from the Boardwalk and casino strip. The casinos are visible from the seating areas.

Seating is in two primary sections, split by a "cross aisle". Luxury boxes are located above the main seating bowl.

1998–2008
The stadium, originally known as The Sandcastle, opened in 1998 on a parcel located on the sprawling Bader Field, a closed municipal airport. When the park first opened, the seating sections were named for the various properties on the U.S. version of the Monopoly board, which took its names from the streets of Atlantic City and surrounding towns. However, saying "I'm sitting in Pacific Avenue" was not sufficiently descriptive, and so the seating sections were assigned numbers, as at most other stadiums. In 2006, the Bernie Robbins jewelry chain purchased the naming rights and the stadium was renamed as "Bernie Robbins Stadium".

Surf Stadium (then known as Bernie Robbins Stadium) played host to the Atlantic League All-Star Game in 1998 and 2005 as well as to various amateur baseball events and concerts. In October 2006, it was the venue for Atlantic regional qualifying for the 2008 Rugby League World Cup. In May 2008, WCAU-TV sports director and former NFL player Vai Sikahema accepted an open challenge from former MLB player Jose Canseco to fight him in a celebrity boxing match for $5,000. Canseco claims to have earned black belts in Kung Fu, Taekwondo, and Muay Thai, while Sikahema, who grew up wanting to be a professional boxer, had once fought in a National Golden Gloves Championship that was eventually won by Sugar Ray Leonard. The fight, dubbed the "War At The Shore", took place on July 12, 2008, and was hosted by Philadelphia-native adult film personality Steven Sheaffer. Sikahema won by knockout in the first round.

2009–present
After the stadium closed, its condition seriously deteriorated due to lack of maintenance and vandalism. However, the abandoned stadium received considerable restoration in 2011 to prepare it to be used as a VIP area for a three-day musical festival headlined by the Dave Matthews Band that was held at the former Bader Field airport. Most of the improvements focused on repairing the facility's fire-suppression system and plumbing, as well as rejuvenating the field itself. The stadium was used for VIP seating for special ticket holders for the festival, and for a "Summer Fest" concert featuring rapper Rick Ross.

In April 2012, the stadium was officially renamed as "Surf Stadium", and after additional renovation work, a youth baseball league tournament was held there in August 2012.

title: Surf Stadium


text:
Category:Fictional businesspeople

Fictional businesspeople.

title: Category:Fictional businesspeople


text:
Talk:Cooperation

Questionnaire to find out the needs for co-operation and collaboration in research. No spam - this is a non profit EU project. --Gerfriedc 21:25, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Ceceholm.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:26, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Not-hyphenated and hyphenated forms 'Cooperation' and 'Co-operation'
Why is cooperation spelled "co-operation" here? RJII 04:23, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm definitely in favour of 'cooperation' myself. I have no idea why the hyphenated version is being used. Mark Elliott 13:24, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Me neither. The hyphenated form wasn't even listed as a variant in several mainstream dictionaries. Thus, I moved the page to "cooperation". Interestingly, at the time of the move, there were already more internal links to the non-hyphenated version than to the hyphenated version (by about a 10 to 7 ratio). CMYK 23:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

If your mom is cooperating with you then she is folllwoing the railroad train back to new york city.

Firstly, I have altered the title of this discussion thread.

Secondly, I have added the following text at the Wikitionary entry for 'cooperatiuon':

" form is, now, the unhyphenated form - due, they say, to usage statistics.)

So the problems are two-fold (with one technical point).

The technical point is that the Internet domain name for co-operatives is the unhyphenated form .coop - this form was 'forced' on co-operators when this domain name was created, about ten years' ago. The cited reason for the use of .coop rather than .co-op was that the domain name character set did not include the hyphen (or I guess? any other punctuation marks) - there was discussion, for example at co-opnet, of this at the time. This seems to have initiated, for example, use of the (even more bizarre) use the unhyphenated form 'coop' rather than the phonetically distinct form 'co-op'.

The substantive issues are that:

a) The co-operative movement has always used the hyphen - the global federal is, for example, the (hyphenated) 'International Co-operative Alliance' (ICA - see www.ica.coop ), and - with the exception of US usage and some UK publication style guides from not-co-operatives - co-operators, co-operatives and co-operative organizations all use(d) the hyphenated form.

b) The not-hyphenated form has significantly different meaning (imposed or developed) than the hyphenated form - as the wordnet.princeton.edu definition shows. That imposed/developed meaning has none of the voluntary equality contained in (say) the ICA Statement on the Co-operative Identity, but is, rather, a coercive usage - more akin to 'compliance'.

These matters also have lexical implications - not least that internet searching delivers separate information sets, depending on whether the searcher specifies the not- or hyphenated-forms.

Could Wikipedians or Wikitionary contributors consider these conundrums?"

I continue discussion of the usage point at the talk section, here, titled /* Cooperation vs Co-operation */

Cooperation vs Competition
Before I leap in and add anything, would you consider adding a coda to the page? The terms competition and cooperation are studied separately in the West, but from an Eastern perspective they are considered as necessarily interdependent processes, if they are considered at all. There the perspective on interaction is one of synergy. Since wikipedia is for all peoples this might help to link the gulf in perspectives.

______________________

“Cooperation is the antithesis of competition, however, the need or desire to compete with others is a very common impetus that motivates individuals to organize into a group and cooperate with each other in order to form a stronger competitive force.”

The first clause is refuted by the rest of the sentence which makes it clear that cooperation and competition are NOT antitheses. And it refutes the first paragraph of the entry which says that “cooperation refers to… working in common… instead of… competition.” Since both can be together the word “instead” is wrong.

Do game theory researchers also have the idea they are mutually exclusive? The animal kingdom is rife with cases of symbiosis, which is cooperation for the purpose of competition. For humans the ultimate example is warfare where cooperation occurs on a massive scale for the purpose of the ultimate, life or death (presumably Darwinian) competition.

And something else occurs with the military: coercion. Where does it fit in?

It seems to me that there are three, not two, modes of interaction: competition, cooperation, and coercion. It seems to me that all three are pervasive, operating at the macro level (lions, daffodils), the micro level (germs, blood cells), and at the molecular level within living cells (viruses, hormones). It seems to me that there are no other modes of interaction.

Further, it seems to me that of the three competition is paramount, that the other two serve and moderate competition, that competition may occur without the other two but the other two cannot occur without competition being present. For example you coerce (say, point a pistol) in order to extract something (money, sex) that will give you competitive advantage. For example you cooperate (say, in a fishermen’s coop) in order to better compete (in the fishing industry).

I am wondering: Has anyone else made these connections?

- Pepper 150.203.2.85 00:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

i'm in favor of "coöperation".Italic text

umlaut
So is coördination correct? 75.118.170.35 (talk) 22:52, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Well I am also all in favor of expunging the spelling coöperation. I have NEVER come across this spelling in English apart some recondite articles about the usage of diacritics in English. Please give links to the usage of the spelling coöperation or ,otherwise, it's better that the coöperation variant should be deleted from here.
 * How about the 3000-odd usages here or Wikipedia's own article on the diaeresis which describes this usage and even gives the specific example of coöperation, also citing the New Yorker, which still uses spellings like this? It may be an uncommon spelling nowadays, but that's no reason for an encyclopedia to ignore it entirely. JudahH (talk) 20:33, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Needs Significant Improvements!
This article is arguably about a key concept in understanding humans and our societies, and is currently linked to by 345 other wikipedia pages (as of 2012-02). As such, in its current state, it is a rather superficial treatment of the concept of, and understandings around, cooperation (which is all the more unfortunate, since Wikipedia itself, lest we forget, is a cooperatively/collaboratively created project).

Some immediate issues:

- it is noted at the top of the article that This article is about cooperation as used in the social sciences... and this contrasted with the treatment of cooperation in the biological / evolutionary sciences. The two approaches are certainly different in important respects, and this distinction should likely be maintained. However, this distinction is in fact neither observed by the article in its current form (the first two examples in the article are about cooperation in biological systems - cells and ecosystems; and the final section is about Cooperation in animals), nor is the distinction properly argued for vis-a-vis the scope and limits of biological perspectives as pertinent to social science treatments of cooperation (i.e. human cooperation in its various manifestations). So the value and significance of this contrast might be clarified here, links can be given to biological treatments (with relatively short summaries only here, to the extent that they aid the reader in understanding human cooperation), whilst this article devotes most space to human/social science perspectives.

- there is no logical structure to the current layout of the article. The article could be structured via e.g. a cumulative historical treatment of how perspectives on cooperation have developed over time; or e.g. via a survey of the foundational topics in analysing and understanding cooperative systems, and how these feed in to a coherent and inter-disciplinary perspective on human/social-sciences and synthetic treatments of cooperation/cooperative practices (e.g. in political theory/economics/psychology/anthropology/sociology...etc.) Or the article might allow its logical/narrative structure be influenced by elements of both an historical / foundational approach.

- various disconnected and/or dissonant strands and elements have seeped into the article: For example, the last line of the introduction states cooperation can also be accomplished by computers, which can handle shared resources simultaneously, while sharing processor time. Whilst this may be factually correct, what is such a sentance doing here in the introduction? If this is such an important insight into the nature of cooperation, why is it not elaborated (in an appropriately bounded subsection) later in the article? This is intended as a rhetorical question - it is just an example of the sorry state of the article as it currently stands.

I intend to re-arrange the article over the coming days, and add content/stubs of sub-sections to give it some clear structure. Please cooperate in this endeavour! DMSchneider (talk) 00:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Add here after Preview time ends in a month?

 * Why We Help: The Evolution of Cooperation. Far from being a nagging exception to the rule of evolution, cooperation has been one of its primary architects by Martin A. Nowak Scientific American  June 19, 2012  108.73.114.104 (talk) 06:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

General theory of collaboration
Please have a look and see if there is anything salvageable for use in this article. ~Kvng (talk) 18:26, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

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Nepali social
What is cooperation 2400:1A00:BB20:7C1:601E:2DAE:145F:C406 (talk) 15:10, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cooperation