text:
Talk:Humber Bridge

Route before the Bridge?
According to cbrd.co.uk, most of the M62, M18 and M180 opened only a few years before the bridge, so what route would drivers have taken before then? The A63, the ?? and the A18? Dupont Circle 19:25, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know the route numbers, but I believe you had to go all the way to Goole. - Jmabel | Talk 16:56, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You would go over the Goole Bridge on what is now the A614. Getting there using the old A63, which is now the B1230, from what is now the start of the M62, to Howden. Taking the A18 eastwards from Thorne on the A614. Keith D (talk) 21:46, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

The Towers
The claim that the tops of the towers are 36mm further apart than the bases because of the curvature of the earth cannot be correct, and I have removed it. By my calculations, assuming the towers to be 15m apart and 150m high, and the radius of the earth to be 6400km, the correct figure is 0.35mm, which is hardly worth commenting upon. mallardview 01:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Surely if the bridge is 2,220 metres long the towers are going to be more than the 15 meters apart quoted above 20:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, i went over it the other day and its definetley not 15 meters between the towers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.12.88.86 (talk • contribs)

Indeed. The towers are nearly a mile apart, 1410m to be precise. So judging by the above calculations, it's entirely feasible that the towers might be 36mm further apart. M0RHI | Talk to me 00:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I have always assumed the 35mm applied to North vs South bank towers. The bridge towers are 36mm (1.4 inches) further apart at the top than the bottom to take account of the curvature of the earth. Martin Spamer

Reference 5 is now dead and I can't find anything relevant on humberbridge.co.uk. Can anyone find a definitive source for this? Adxm (talk) 08:47, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I've replaced the original link with the Wayback version but it is just simple geometry. If the two towers are 1/40,000 of the radius of the Earth tall, they'll be 1/40,000 of the distance between them further apart at the top than at the bottom.Cavrdg (talk) 11:05, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Of course a geometry calculation will produce that result, however this is referring to the real world and the actual construction accuracy. The calculation assumes a true radial for each tower on a perfect sphere, and the construction to be absolutely accurate. No construction technique could achieve this level of perfection...... Pure bull ! If I may quote Nick (above) ".....cannot be correct, and I have removed it."....well Nick, it's still there. Shaun Walton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.154.147 (talk) 18:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Height
What height is the road level above ground level? 195.171.79.148 (talk) 14:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

History
Perhaps it is just that I am old enough to remember it, but wasn't this bridge, the economic case for which wasn't absolute (as proved by the relatively low traffic levels compared with the Forth, Severn and Dartford crossings) ordered by Barbara Castle, then Transport Minister, to ensure that Labour won a by-election in Hull in early 1966. I remember it in the papers at the time but can't source anything - can anyone help? Bedwasboy (talk) 06:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Debt
How much is it in debt? Tom Green (talk) 12:22, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Very late but interesting nonetheless. Funded by a government loan back in 1981 of £150 million. The loan now stands at £330 million. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13773791 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.154.162 (talk) 18:13, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Dubious
Following moved from article Keith D (talk) 14:30, 28 March 2009 (UTC) Factual error? According to Wikipedia's own page on Rett's, it is unlikely that boy fetuses with the condition survive to term. The news article cited refers to autism.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by LRRooster (talk • contribs) 12:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Statistics
Is it not relevant that the Humber Bridge is the lonngest bridge in the western hemisphere? Maybe it is a little parochial, but to half the global population! What says y'all? Mark Beard (talk) 18:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The "Western Hemisphere" is North America and South America.Eregli bob (talk) 01:32, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The Western Hemisphere is the half of the planet west of the Greenwich Meridian. The Humber Bridge is 0.4 degrees west of Greenwich... but no, I don't think it's a relevant fact. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 07:18, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Abolishment of the tolls?
The text says:

''A public inquiry into the tolls was held in the first week of March 2009. The final evidence for and against the tolls was heard on March 5. Throughout the inquiry arguments were presented to independent inspector Neil Taylor. The evidence for and against the tolls is to be assessed by British Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon, with a decision expected in summer 2009.''

So, what's the current situation? Does anybody know? --Dionysos1988 (talk) 22:31, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

 * There is this from August 2009 about the government rejecting proposed increases and referring to an earlier public inquiry but that is dated in 2008 so cannot be the same thing. Keith D (talk) 22:45, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Hm, what a pity. Let's hope for current news soon. --Dionysos1988 (talk) 19:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Construction of the Humber Bridge
I am a real fan of the bridge and it is only recently I have come across this page and I have to say in parts the page is very good but I do think there is a big problem and I was appalled when I noticed to my horror how little information there is on the actual construction of this wonderful bridge and I was shocked to see how few photos there are from 1973-1981 from when the bridge was built. Now I am not sure what is the best approach to this but I have a idea in mind, My first idea is to make a separate page so we can with as much detail write about the various stages of how the bridge was built and also to put in new pictures which I am hoping to upload but I don’t know how to do the copyright ect as it would make the page much more powerful as well as a great resource for those wishing to look up on how one of Britain's greatest civil engineering project took place piece by piece as there is very little reference on other websites on how this happened. I can’t do this on my own so I ask publicly for your help and your opinion so we can make this page a real success. I believe the Construction stage of the bridge is the most important chapter in the history of the bridge should be fully recognised as such and also was also one of the most important events to happen in the Yorkshire/Lincolnshire/Humberside areas during the 70s up until the bridge was opened by the Queen in 1981 and the fact there is so little reference out there makes this so sad and not ever be forgotten. This should be a top priority! (MOTORAL1987 (talk) 14:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC))
 * You are welcome to your opinion, of course, but writing with such emotive terms won't endear you to people or further your cause. You are very welcome to add more information to the article - it doesn't need a separate one - but please ensure that everything you add is properly cited from reliable sources. I'm sure other editors, myself included, will be willing to help, but you need to be bold and kick it off --Bob Re-born (talk) 16:58, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 18:27, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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this article needs more references
There are lots of paragraphs in the History and Toll Update sections that do not have citations. — howcheng  {chat} 07:56, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

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inconsistency in length of world record
In the section about the world record, it states the Humber Bridge held it for 17 years , before the opening of the Akashi Kaikyō Bridge. But in the 'bridge statistics' section it says 16 years, claiming the Great Belt Bridge was opened in 1997, which doesn't fit in with the article about that bridge.86.138.45.7 (talk) 12:14, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I spotted that too. Modified to remove mention of the Great Belt Bridge, which according to List of longest suspension bridge spans and the individual bridge articles, was opened a few months after the Akashi Kaikyo Bridge in 1998. 185.41.233.36 (talk) 18:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Corrosion suppression by dehumidifcation
The Bridges cables are dehumidified by a rather specific process. (presumably all year round?)

There should be a separate section which elaborates further on this process.

Humber vs Humber Gap?
On this page it says the Humber is the name of the estuary. On Humber Ferry it says the ferry bridges (I believe that is sic) the Humber Gap. It is not immediately clear what the subtle difference in meaning is between the Humber Estuary and the Humber Gap. I presume that the Gap refers to the geological formation, and the estuary is the water that happens to fill that volume of space, but it seems unusual to make the distinction at all. And it would be less confusing if the article on the ferry just said that it crossed the Humber estuary.

64.222.87.62 (talk) 21:48, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Please add the used materials
I have a project where I was studying this bridge and I needed to list the materials used in the construction of the bridge so I could continue to proceed in the class. I dint find it. I looked on seven different websites. What the heck bro. 216.110.254.8 (talk) 14:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Humber Bridge


text:
Black gold (politics)

Black gold is a term used in Taiwan to refer to political corruption, underworld politics and political violence. The term refers to the obtaining of money (the "gold") through a dark, secretive, and corrupt method ("black", an adjective in Chinese that also means illegal or illicit).

The Kuomintang (KMT; Chinese Nationalist Party) has frequently been criticized in Taiwan for its connections to gangsters and black gold. The party has had a long association with underground societies, and its founder Sun Yat-sen had joined the Triads to gain support for the Republican Revolution. In its early years, the KMT relied on support from organized crime, gangs, and unions and clan organizations with criminal ties in its efforts to consolidate power in war-torn post-imperial China. As a result, the party made concessions to local "crime bosses", such as the notorious Du Yuesheng in Shanghai, who were well-connected with its longtime leader, Chiang Kai-shek. During the Shanghai massacre of 1927, the KMT employed the Green Gang to exterminate suspected communists; the Green Gang also happened to be a major financial supporter of Chiang Kai-shek. The KMT's relationships with such organizations are believed to persist. KMT fled to Taiwan following the Chinese Civil War. As Minister of Justice from 1993 to 1996, former Taipei mayor and KMT Party Chairman Ma Ying-jeou is credited with attempts to fight black gold corruption and bring KMT out of corruption, and his removal from office by the KMT was widely attributed to him being too effective at fighting black gold.

The Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) gained considerable support in the 1990s through its reform agenda, even from those opposed to the DPP position on Taiwanese independence. President Chen Shui-bian, former Taipei mayor, was noted for his attempts to clamp down on black gold throughout his career. However, Chen's presidential administration has been criticized, including by former colleagues and supporters, for exploiting their control of government for personal wealth in, a typical black-gold manner. Former DPP party leader Hsu Hsin-liang has criticized Chen in a public speech for betraying the ideals of the DPP after coming to power. After a series of high-profile corruption scandals, public support for DPP diminished in 2005 Taiwanese local elections. Campaigning on a "save Taiwan from corruption" platform, the KMT-led pan-blue coalition won 16 of 23 county and town offices and became the majority party at the local level. Chen was charged with corruption after stepping down as president in 2008.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Black gold (politics)


text: User talk:66.189.220.241

title: User talk:66.189.220.241


text:
Black and Gold (book)

Black and Gold: Tycoons, Revolutionaries, and Apartheid is a 1987 book by English journalist Anthony Sampson which deals with the relationship between international big business and Black political movements in South Africa, weaving together the themes of apartheid and gold mining. Black and Gold includes an account of foreign finance behind the "Apartheid Boom."

title: Black and Gold (book)


text:
Talk:Duchy of Carinthia

Link to Otto I, Holy Roman Emperor
Is that link really correct? Just look up when he died and what time we are talking about here. One might think that this site should link to Otto III, Holy Roman Emperor, but he died in 1002, wheras this page states that "Otto" ruled in Carinthia until 1004. Martg76 19:32, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't know...Otto III is probably a better candidate, maybe the dates are wrong here. Adam Bishop 08:22, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Several of the early dates are clearly wrong (Henry the Fowler, Otto I, Conrad I). They cant be ruling after they have died. Conrad predates Henry and neither were Holy Roman emperors but they were German kings. Anyone know where the source of this list is? --Countakeshi 12:23, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I fixed the pre-1122 list based on the Lexikon des Mittelalters. I did not do anything about the ambiguous numbering of the Henries... that's a whole different can of worms. --Chl 02:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Unilateral move
Why was this page moved from Carinthia (duchy)? The latter is in line with the names of other pages, such as Styria (duchy), Carinthia (state) and Carinthia (province). I propose that this page should be moved back. Martg76 10:07, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I tend to like to avoid parentheses, especially when there's a perfectly sensible non-parenthesis way to refer to something. Duchy of Styria and Duchy of Carinthia would make sense. john k 22:03, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Moved it back to the format you mentioned, if anyone has objections they can voice their concerns here. Gryffindor  08:03, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Is there a Latin name for Carinthia?
I would like to translate this term, thanks.--User:Fitzwilliam 11:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Carantania, probably. Adam Bishop 15:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * There's an article for it, Carantania. It refers to the same area as Carinthia. Curiously, is there any sites about place names in Latin?--User:Fitzwilliam 15:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * We have List of Latin place names in Continental Europe, but Carinthia doesn't seem to be on it. Adam Bishop 15:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Er, isn't "Carinthia" a Latin name? A lot of English forms are actually the same as Latin forms. This site gives the full titles in Latin of Ferdinand III and later those of Leopold II, including "Dux Carinthiae" - other Habsburg ruled places which have the same name in Latin and English are Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Austria, Carniola, Slavonia, Lodomeria, Moravia, Silesia, and Tyrol. In particular, if an English place name end sin "ia", it's probably Latin, isn't it? john k 15:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This is true for Austria, for example. Perhaps Carantania is the old name of that place.--User:Fitzwilliam 15:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's true...I was assuming a Latin form wouldn't have "th" in it, but by the time Carinthia existed that wouldn't be a problem. Adam Bishop 20:02, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Translation
It seems the German Wikipedia has a lot of the dukes' articles. They could use translating by anybody competent in German. Especially Heinrich III. (Kärnten). Srnec 04:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Moved over from Koroška
I moved the following over from Koroška's history section as it is better to unite all the history in one place. Please integrate it into this article, if there's any information missing here. Str1977 (talk) 15:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Carinthia was settled by Slavic tribes around the 6th century. They formed a new people, called Carantanians, and Carinthia became the central part of the Principality of Carantania, the first state of Proto-Slovenians and also the first stable Slav state ever. Carantania lost its autonomy in the early 9th century when it fell under Frankish power and as Carinthian March formed the south-eastern protective march of Charlemagne's empire. Thus in the Holy Roman Empire Carinthia was at first  part of the Duchy of Bavaria, but in 976 it was established as a duchy of its own, the sixth duchy of the Holy Roman Empire, extending far beyond its present borders with its own protective march to the northeast and east that, confusingly, was also named Carinthian or Carantanian March and covered an area which when it had  emancipated from Carinthia eventually  became the Duchy of Styria.  Already much reduced the Duchy of Carinthia was later controlled by the  Habsburgs (1335 - 1918), under the Holy Roman Empire until 1806,  then in the Austrian Empire (which after 1867 was known as Austria-Hungary). It was populated by Germans from Bavaria, and Slovenes, who in growing numbers assimilated. The ceremony of the installation of the duke in Slovene language was kept into the 14th century. --Marschner (talk) 19:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Area
What's the area (in km2 and mi2) of this Duchy? --24.129.72.118 (talk) 09:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

"Province of the Austrian Empire"
"Territories" would be a term much better fitting  for the parts of the Empire than "provinces". Will someone please improve on that "[hide]v • d • province of the Austrian Empire" ?--Marschner (talk) 19:44, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 1911 Britannica used "crownland," FWIW. john k (talk) 06:07, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * True for Carinthia, but not for all of Austria's "Königreiche und Länder" (i.e. "Kingdoms and Lands"). "Crownlands of the Austrian Empire" would not include the Kingdom of Hungary - not even before the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867. --Marschner (talk) 09:33, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * "Crownlands" is being used specifically for territories in the Austrian half of the monarchy in 1911. So, no Hungary.  Obviously the right term in German is Land.  But I don't think German Land necessarily translates correctly to the English "land" in this context - Leo gives a whole bunch of different translations for Land, including "country" and "territory".  john k (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Quite so, that's why I suggested "territories" - what about "Constituent territories"? Today's political "Land" translates as "State", and this is also used in the List of the states of the Holy Roman Empire ("Component States" in the article Holy Roman Empire), but "state" appears  too grand a term for the lands of the  Austrian Empire,  which had practically no autonomy. But I hate that term "province". I don't see how the Canadians can live with it :).--Marschner (talk) 17:22, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that "state" would be a bad choice. I think "constituent territory" is pretty good for the duchies and margraviates and such, and that we should use "constituent kingdom" for Dalmatia, Galicia-Lodomeria, and Bohemia.  But I think "Crownlands" would be about as good for territories in the Austrian half. john k (talk) 20:44, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Could it be that we are not talking about same heading:

?--Marschner (talk) 07:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Duchy of Carinthia


text: User talk:205.182.87.1

title: User talk:205.182.87.1


text:
Anis Nagi

Anis Nagi (1939–2010) was a Pakistani poet, novelist and critic who lectured at the Government College, Faisalabad and Government College, Lahore.

Early life and education
Nagi was born in 1939 in the Punjabi city Sheikhupura and studied at Muslim High School No 2 before attending Government College, Lahore and MA in Urdu (First Class First-Gold Medalist) from Punjab University Oriental College. He earned his PhD from the University of the Punjab.

Whilst lecturing at Government College, Faisalabad and Government College, Lahore, Nagi passed the Pakistan Civil Service exam and became a member of the 1965 batch, eventually reaching grade 21 before he retired.

Works
Nagi was at the forefront of the Urdu Literary Movement in the 1960s and authored 79 books including poetry, novels, translations, short stories, and critical reviews. He worked on Iqbal, Manto Ghalib and Bullah Shah and was one of the pioneers of Azad Nazam and Nayee Shairie.

Death and legacy
Nagi died on 7 October 2010 in Lahore after suffering a cardiac arrest and directed that his books be donated to the Punjab Public Library.

Nagi was posthumously awarded Tamgha-e-Imtiaz by the Government of Pakistan in 2022 for his work in literature.

Selected works

 * Anīs Nāgī. 1969. Shiʻrī Lassāniyāt. Lāhaur: Kitābiyāt.
 * انىس ناگى and انيس ناگى. 1984. سعادت حسن منٹو. Lāhaur: جمالىات،.
 * Anīs Nāgī. 1969. Shiʻrī Lassāniyāt. Lāhaur: Kitābiyāt.
 * انىس ناگى and انيس ناگى. 1984. سعادت حسن منٹو. Lāhaur: جمالىات،.

title: Anis Nagi


text:
Tom Reiss

Tom Reiss (born May 5, 1964) is an American author, historian, and journalist. He is the author of three nonfiction books, the latest of which is The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo (2012), which received the 2013 Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography. His previous books are Führer-Ex: Memoirs of a Former Neo-Nazi (1996), the first inside exposé of the European neo-Nazi movement; and The Orientalist: Solving the Mystery of a Strange and Dangerous Life (2005), which became an international bestseller. As a journalist, Reiss has written for The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Times.

Early life and education
Reiss was born on May 5, 1964, in New York City, to Jewish parents. He spent his first years of his life in Washington Heights in Manhattan and then in San Antonio and Dallas, Texas, where his father worked as an Air Force neurosurgeon. After that, his family moved to western Massachusetts, and he spent the rest of his childhood and adolescence in New England. He attended the Hotchkiss School and then Harvard College, where he joined the writing and editing staffs of The Harvard Crimson newspaper and The Harvard Advocate magazine, graduating in 1987. In 1989, Reiss returned to Texas to study creative writing at the University of Houston, under the guidance of professor Donald Barthelme.

Career
When Barthelme died in summer 1989, Reiss left Texas and traveled to Germany in order to begin researching his family history, and became fascinated by the rapidly changing political and social context in East Germany after the Berlin Wall fell. In order to effectively search documents and communicate with German citizens, he taught himself the German language. Reiss used his German to better understand members of his family, who had escaped Nazi Europe in the 1930s. His maternal grandparents had been murdered by the Nazis, after being deported from Paris to Auschwitz, but his mother survived as a hidden child in France during World War II. While in Germany, he also interviewed East German neo-Nazi youth, in an attempt to learn why they were embracing the political and sociological ideals of their ancestors.

Reiss was influenced by various jobs he held, such as hospital orderly, bartender, small business entrepreneur, teacher, and, in Japan, rock band member and actor in television commercials and gangster films.

Führer-Ex
Reiss co-wrote the English version of Ingo Hasselbach's memoir Führer-Ex: Memoirs of a Former Neo-Nazi, published in 1996 by Random House. The German-language version, titled Die Abrechnung: ein Neonazi steigt aus, had been published in 1993 by Aufbau-Verlag and co-written with Winfried Bonengel, who subsequently co-wrote and directed the 2002 German film adaptation of the story, titled Führer Ex. The memoir was the first inside exposé of the European neo-Nazi movement, told from the perspective of a young East German coming of age in the extremist youth subcultures of the late 1980s and early 1990s. Hasselbach had been the leader of the East German neo-Nazis, and in 1993 had renounced the movement in a spectacular manner. For the English-language version of his memoir, during the summer of 1994 Hasselbach and Reiss stayed in an isolated cabin in Sweden where Hasselbach was in hiding, and Reiss interviewed him for the book. A 21,000-word excerpt of Führer-Ex appeared in The New Yorker magazine under the title "How Nazis Are Made".

The Orientalist
In 2005, Reiss published The Orientalist: Solving the Mystery of a Strange and Dangerous Life. In the book Reiss details and analyzes the life of Russian Jewish-born Lev Nussimbaum (1905–1942), who as a teen fled the Bolshevik Revolution with his father in 1920. The Nussimbaums sought refuge in several locations, including Constantinople and Paris, and in 1922 ended up in Germany. There, Nussimbaum converted to Islam, disguised himself as a Muslim prince, and became an author, publishing prolifically under his new name "Essad Bey". In part of the early 1930s, Nussimbaum lived in New York City and Hollywood, but was unable to immigrate to the U.S. and returned to Germany. In 1937, according to Reiss, he published the classic novel Ali and Nino: A Love Story, under the pseudonym "Kurban Said". In 1938 Nussimbaum fled Nazi Germany and went into hiding in Italy, where he died in 1942.

Reiss traveled to ten countries to research the book, which details not only Nussimbaum's life, but also extensive local and historical background of the times, and also Reiss's search to find and piece together Nussimbaum's biographical details. The Orientalist appeared on many "top ten" lists in 2005, and was shortlisted for the 2006 Samuel Johnson Prize for best nonfiction book in the English language. It has been translated into more than 20 languages.

The Black Count
Reiss's 2012 book, The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo, won the 2013 Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography and the 2013 PEN/Jacqueline Bograd Weld Award for Biography. It is the biography of General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, the mixed-race son of a French marquis and a Haitian slave, who became a swashbuckling swordsman in Paris and then a military hero of the French Revolutionary Wars, remaining the highest-ranking black military figure in a Western army until Gen. Colin Powell 200 years later. Dumas's rivalry with Napoleon caused him to leave the Egyptian campaign which Napoleon himself had already abandoned, and he was captured by enemy forces in Naples and thrown in a dungeon for two years. By the time he was released, Napoleon had risen to power and reinstated racism and slavery in France and its colonies, leaving Dumas with few recourses. The debilitation from Dumas's long imprisonment led to his early death, but his life inspired his son Alexandre Dumas to write books such as The Count of Monte Cristo and The Three Musketeers.

The Christian Science Monitor called the book a "remarkable and almost compulsively researched account" and stated that "the author spent a decade on the case, and it shows." "To tell this tale", wrote The Boston Globe. "Reiss must cover the French Revolution, the Haitian Revolution, and the rise of Napoleon toward Empire; he does all that with remarkable verve."

The Black Count appeared on multiple "best of" lists since its publication in September 2012. The New York Times named it one of the 100 most notable books of 2012, and TIME included it in their list of Top 10 Nonfiction Books of 2012. Amazon.com chose it as one of the "10 Best Books of 2012" in the "Biographies and Memoirs" category. The book was chosen by BBC4 as the "Book of the Week" in November 2012 and was broadcast as a five-part radio series, and NPR listed it as one of the Best 5 Biographies of 2012. The Black Count was also a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award in the biography category, and it was nominated for an NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Literary Work – Biography/Autobiography.

title: Tom Reiss


text:
Jean-Pierre Goyer

Jean-Pierre Goyer, (January 17, 1932 – May 24, 2011) was a lawyer and Canadian Cabinet minister.

Early life and education
Goyer was born in Saint-Laurent, Quebec, the son of Gilbert and Marie-Ange Goyer. His wealthy family owned a coal distribution company in Montreal. He was educated at two collèges classiques, the College St. Laurent and the College Ste. Marie. He graduated from the University of Montreal in 1953. His first wife was Michelle Gascon, by whom he had three daughters.

1965 - 1968 term
Goyer was first elected to the House of Commons of Canada as the Liberal Party of Canada Member of Parliament for Dollard in the 1965 election. In 1968, when the Liberal Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson announced his intention to resign, Goyer was part of the team that supported the bid of the Justice Minister Pierre Trudeau to win the leadership of the Liberal party. There had been rumors for some time that the ailing Pearson would resign in the near-future and ever since 1967 the media had been speculating that Trudeau-who was regarded as a star minister in Pearson's cabinet-would be his successor. Marc Lalonde, one of Trudeau's closest advisers recalled: "He was the first MP to rally for Trudeau's candidacy and he was actively involved in Trudeau's leadership campaign". The journalist Catherine Fogarty described Goyer as an intelligent and a very ambitious MP who was the first Liberal MP to back Trudeau, a decision that she credited to Goyer's burning ambition to be promoted up to the cabinet instead of languishing as a backbencher.

Goyer had promised Trudeau that over 50 Liberal MPs and senators from Quebec would show up at a meeting on 15 February 1968 to show their support for Trudeau as Pearson's successor. However, only 20 MPs and senators actually attended the meeting, which reflected resentment over Trudeau's rapid rise in politics at the expense of many longer-serving Liberals.

Trudeau had been elected a MP in a 1965 by-election and many felt that it was a premature move to have someone with only 3 years' political experience serve as prime minister. Trudeau nearly abandoned his leadership bid as a result of the fiasco, but changed his mind when Goyer reassured him that he was popular with the Liberal rank-and-file. Goyer assured Trudeau that he would have the support of about 600-750 delegates at a leadership convention, which would put him within striking distance of winning the leadership as winning would require having the support of about 1, 200 delegates. On 16 February 1968, Trudeau called a press conference to formally announce his leadership bid. Goyer served as the floor manager for the Trudeau campaign at the leadership convention where Trudeau was elected the Liberal leader.

1968 re-election
He was re-elected in the 1968 election. During the October crisis in 1970, Goyer was known as a "hawk" who advised Trudeau to invoke the War Measures Act, saying that the FLQ was on the brink of launching a revolutionary war in Canada. In December 1970, he was appointed to the Cabinet as Solicitor General of Canada by Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau. In this position, he oversaw the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in the aftermath of the FLQ Crisis.

FLQ Crisis
The October crisis is regarded by historians as the effective end of the FLQ, but at the time it was widely believed to be just the beginning of an era of terrorism in Canada. The full extent that the murder of the Quebec Labor Minister Pierre Laporte had alienated Quebecois public opinion from the FLQ was not appreciated at the time, and the Trudeau government in late 1970-early 1971 saw itself under siege.

Fears over the 1976 Summer Olympics
Further increasing the fears of the Trudeau government was the fact that in 1970 Montreal had won the right to host the 1976 Summer Olympics, and the FLQ would stage a terrorist attack during the Olympics. Trudeau and his cabinet were convinced with the eyes of the world focused on Montreal that the FLQ would stage a major terrorist incident at the scheduled time of the Olympics with the aim of disgracing Canada on the world stage. Lalonde recalled in 2011: "He [Goyer] had his own views. He might have been kind of stubborn. He often pursued what he thought was right without taking into consideration other points of view. He was young. Because he was young he was not a heavyweight in cabinet, but subject to close supervision by senior ministers...He was ambitious, but he never quite achieved his ambition...Certainly, the cabinet as a whole prodded the RCMP to concentrate on the FLQ, which was using violence in support of separatism". Lalonde stated that the RCMP had traditionally focused on spying upon the Canadian Communist Party, and the Trudeau cabinet was notably annoyed at what appeared to be a glaring lack of intelligence about the FLQ, leading to intense pressure being applied on Goyer to push the RCMP harder for more intelligence on the FLQ.

In this mood of paranoia and fear, Goyer saw himself as locked into mortal combat with the FLQ, which justified using the full resources of the state to crush this enemy. Goyer ordered the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to make a "blacklist" (also known as the "enemies' list") of all federal civil servants who held left-wing views which would presumably make them sympathetic towards the Marxist FLQ. The "enemies' list" of civil servants who put were under RMCP surveillance for years afterward is regarded as one the darker moments of the Trudeau government. In January 1971, Goyer met with the RCMP commissioner William Leonard Higgitt where he expressed a special interest in bugging the homes and businesses of suspected FLQ supporters, saying that government needed as much intelligence about the FLQ as possible..

Goyer had a difficult working relationship with the Deputy Solicitor General Ernest Côté. Côté complained that Goyer had appointed his mistress as his chief of staff despite her manifest lack of qualifications and awarded her privileges such as a free pass with the Crown corporation Air Canada, allowing her to fly anywhere she wanted at the expense of the taxpayers. Côté accused Goyer of engaging in petty corruption as he described him as a minister who liked to play fast and loose with the rules for his own benefit.

Kingston Penitentiary crisis
On 18 January 1971, Warden Arthur Jarvis of Kingston Penitentiary wrote to Paul Faguay, the commissioner of penitentiaries that the Kingston penitentiary "appears to be almost at the point of explosion". Jarvis's letter was never answered. On 14 April 1971, the Kingston Penitentiary riot began. A group of inmates led by the prison barber Billy Knight took six prison guards hostage and threatened to kill them if their demands were not met. The next day Goyer attended an emergency meeting of the cabinet chaired by the acting prime minister Edgar Benson (Trudeau who had just married Margaret Sinclair was on his honeymoon in the West Indies). Goyer listed to the cabinet the six demands made by Knight, all of which he advised rejecting except for the citizens' committee to mediate an end to the crisis.

However, Goyer expressed about the citizens' committee, telling the cabinet that he wanted the journalist Ron Haggart removed from the committee because he was the crime correspondent of the Toronto Telegram. The Toronto Telegram was a Conservative newspaper opposed to the Liberal Trudeau government, and Goyer claimed that as a journalist Haggart would publish information unflattening towards the government. Haggart, as the crime correspondent of the Toronto Telegram, was well respected by the prisoners who had read his articles, and Knight believed that Haggart would be fair-minded in mediating a peaceful end to the crisis. Knight had insisted that the citizens' committee have at least six members and some of his other choices for the citizens' committee such as the actor Paul Newman and the boxer Muhammad Ali were clearly unrealistic. The cabinet overruled Goyer under the grounds that there was no replacement for Haggart on the citizens' committee whom Knight would accept.

Goyer favored a tough line towards the riot, advocating no concessions to Knight and favoring having the prison being stormed as soon as possible. Goyer's first suggestion of having prison guards armed with shotguns enter the prison with the Canadian Army in support was rejected by the cabinet, which instead decided to wait until 18 April to give time for negotiations for a peaceful resolution. Goyer admitted that there was a danger that the hostages might be killed if the prison was stormed, but that the risk had to be taken. Goyer's tough line during the riot was largely motivated by political considerations with regard to national unity. Six months before in October 1970 the Trudeau government had invoked the War Measures Act which suspended all civil liberties in Canada in response to the FLQ kidnapping James Cross, the British trade commissioner in Montreal and Pierre Laporte, the Quebec Labor Minister who was later murdered. The October Crisis and the Kingston Penitentiary however dissimilar had one similarity in common, namely a group of people had taken hostages in order to effect a political change, namely independence for Quebec in the case of FLQ and prison reform in the case of Knight and his followers. Goyer felt if the Trudeau government was not as equally draconian towards a prison riot in Ontario as it was towards terrorism in Quebec, then the Trudeau government would be labelled as anti-Quebec. However, through the cabinet rejected Goyer's advice to have the prison stormed as soon as possible, the solicitor general won his point in that the cabinet agreed that if the riot was not ended by noon on 18 April 1971 then the Kingston penitentiary would be stormed by the Canadian Army. In approving a military assault on Kingston penitentiary, the cabinet gave permission for lethal force to be used with the soldiers being ordered to shoot to kill in the event of resistance.

Later, on 15 April 1971, a task force of 130 soldiers from the Royal Canadian Regiment arrived at Kingston Penitentiary marching up with fixed bayonets on their automatic rifles. The soldiers started to erect a barbed wire fence around the prison while taking up positions for a possible assault. On 16 April, Goyer met with Haggart along with another member of the citizens' committee, Arthur Martin. Goyer rejected the request of Knight for amnesty for the prisoners involved in the riot, insisting the inmates involved be prosecuted after the end of the riot.

On the night of 17 April 1971, the citizens' committee reached an agreement with Knight for the release of the hostages and the end of the riot, which was accepted by the government at first. However, later that night, Goyer undermined the agreement by holding a press conference that was broadcast on national radio and television saying the Crown would make no deal with the rioters. Goyer bluntly announced he wanted the prisoners to surrender unconditionally or else see the prison stormed. Three members of the citizens' committee, namely Ron Haggart, William Donkin and Desmond Morton were shocked that Goyer had just torpedoed the deal that he had initially approved of a few hours before with his press conference. In his press conference, Goyer stated he would make no concessions to end the riot and there would be no agreements on anything, saying he was only willing to accept unconditional surrender. Goyer stated that the prisoners had no guns while the military task force was well armed, leading him to conclude that he had held all the cards, hence his insistence on unconditional surrender as he called the prisoners "cowards". Even worse from the viewpoint of the citizens committee was the fact that the inmates had listened to Goyer's speech via their transistor radios inside the prison. Haggart vomited in disgust, fearing that the hostages would now be killed.

Goyer's speech caused the complete collapse of Knight's authority and to the led to the prisoners dividing into two factions, a radical faction led by the outlaw biker Brian Beaucage who favored killing the hostages and a moderate faction led by the career criminal Barrie MacKenzie who favored surrender to prevent a bloodbath. The faction led by Beaucage attempted to kill the hostages, and unable to do so engaged in a torture-murder session of the so-called "undesirables" (prisoner slang for child molesters). The riot was finally ended when MacKenzie and Haggart were able in the early hours of 18 April to broker a deal under the hostages would be released to stop the torture-murder session as the inmates would surrender without the hostages. The deal that MacKenzie and Haggart reached was just within a few hours of the scheduled military assault at noon on 18 April.

Goyer arrived at Kingston penitentiary to oversee the end of the riot. When MacKenzie stated that he would release one hostage for every sixty prisoners who marched out, Goyer told him over the phone he was rejecting his offer and wanted all of the hostages released at once, a demand that MacKenzie rejected. MacKenzie's pro rata formula prevailed and MacKenzie was the last prisoner to surrender on the morning of 18 April 1971. As MacKenzie walked out of Kingston penitentiary, Goyer and Haggart were there to greet him. Goyer returned to Ottawa later that day to give a self-congratulatory speech before the House of Commons where he announced "no deal and no conditions" were the outcome of the riot. Goyer stated that the riot was simply an outbreak of mindless violence by the prisoners and stated that the government had generously spent 18 million dollars building a modern, state-of-the-art prison at Millhaven to replace Kingston Penitentiary. However, Goyer stated in the same speech that he would create a royal commission to discover the causes of the Kingston prison riot. Goyer lied to the house during his speech when he claimed that neither he nor anyone else in his ministry had received advance warnings about a possible riot at Kingston penitentiary when in fact Warden Jarvis had written a letter in January 1971 giving that precise warning.

Haggart wrote in the Toronto Telegram: "In truth, the plan for releasing hostages ‘from time to time’ originated as much with responsible inmates as with anyone. Without naming names, it would not have hurt the minister to say so." At a press conference in Toronto, Morton told the media that "Goyer blew it!", saying the Solicitor General had undermined the agreement that the citizens committee had reached and was in part responsible for the torture-murder session, which had would had been avoided had it not been for Goyer's press conference. Morton also stated that the prisoners wanted promises that they would not be beaten by the prison guards if they surrendered, which Goyer put off giving, which thereby extended the riot as that one was of the key demands of the inmates. Morton stated he knew from speaking to Knight and the other inmates' committee members that the prisoners were most insistent on receiving promises that they would not be beaten if they surrendered peacefully. Morton complained instead of giving that promise, Goyer had marched outside of Kingston Penitentiary with a megaphone shouting abuse at the prisoners inside and warning them the Canadian Army would kill them all if they did not surrender. Morton stated that Goyer was unfit to be Solicitor General, saying that his actions during the Kingston prison riot had served to inflame tensions instead of reducing them and that Goyer seemed intent on sabotaging efforts for a peaceful resolution.

Continuation at Millhaven Institution
Contrary to what the prisoners had been promised, after their surrender, the prisoners from Kingston Penitentiary were sent to Millhaven Institution where they were all beaten by the guards. Knight, as the man who started the Kingston prison riot, was singled out by the Millhaven guards and forced to walk a gauntlet of prison guards who struck him with nightsticks several times. Knight later sued Goyer in a civil court for the beatings and won his case with a judge ordering Goyer to pay Knight $3, 500 dollars. Several members of the citizens committee such as Martin wanted to visit Millhaven to investigate the reports that the prison guards were beating the prisoners to punish them for taking prison guards hostage, a demand that Goyer flatly refused.

On 28 April 1971, four NDP MPs, namely John Gilbert, Arnold Peters, John Skoberg and Frank Howard arrived at Millhaven with a request to speak to the prisoners after receiving reports of the beatings. Under the Penitentiaries Act of 1886, MPs were classified as "privileged visitors" free to inspect any federal prison without notice to ensure that the prisoners were being treated humanely in order to raise concerns in the House of Commons though only a few MPs had availed themselves of this privilege. Warden Don Clark called Goyer to ask him what to do, saying to allow the MPs to visit Millhaven would lead to uncomfortable questions for the solicitor general in the House of Commons about the mass beatings the Millhaven guards had inflicted on the Kingston prisoners. The four MPs were all expelled from Millhaven, which led to Howard giving a speech in the House of Commons protesting their treatment, which had violated Canadian law. In response, Goyer admitted to the House of Commons that he ordered the four MPs out of Millhaven, saying that the visit of the MPs could had caused another riot. Goyer told the House of Commons: "Millhaven is currently overcrowded. The psychological climate there is tenuous and we have to be careful. My first responsibility is to see there are no more riots and to see to the protection of the prisoners". In response, Howard shouted: "What have you got to hide? Evasiveness is no substitute for intelligence". Goyer answered Howard with the remark: "Mr. Speaker, I did not appeal to the intelligence of the honorable member, but to this courtesy and I see he lacks both".

As the Liberal benches erupted in laughter, Howard continued to press on with his line of questioning, saying he had received reliable information about the beatings at Millhaven and the minister should answer his questions. The mood of the House grew more excited leading for the Speaker of the House to call for order. The four MPs expressed concerns about Millhaven, saying that before they were expelled on Goyer's orders that they had discovered the Millhaven "recreation hall" was just a mud field, that the beds in Millhaven were filthy, and the cells were "claustrophobic".

On 13 May 1971, Peters during question time in the House of Commons told justice minister John Turner that he learned from reliable sources that a number of Millhaven prisoners were engaged in a hunger strike to protest the living conditions at Millhaven. Turner in response stated that he had asked Goyer to investigate the problem of hunger strikes at Millhaven and devise a solution. The NDP and Conservative members of the justice committee of the House of Commons began to press to visit Millhaven to investigate the reports of inhumane living conditions and that the guards were beating the prisoners, but Goyer was adamant that no MPs being allowed to enter Millhaven or talk to the inmates. Goyer told the justice committee that he was denying them the right to visit Millhaven because: "It wouldn't be good to cause any more excitement than necessary in the present climate. We open the doors and run the risk of another riot or we close the doors and run the risk of criticism". Peters argued that the best way of preventing a repeat of the Kingston prison riot at Millhaven would be to investigate the reports, but Goyer exploded in fury at him, saying: "If you don't know the truth, keep quiet!" The Conservative MP and justice critic Eldon Woolliams put forward a motion that the MPs of the justice committee visit Millhaven to inspect the condition of the prison, but the motion was defeated in a vote along party lines 5 to 3. During question time, the Liberal MP Harold Stafford noted that one of the men killed in the torture-murder session during the Kingston prison riot, the child abuser Bertrand Robert, had repeatedly asked to moved out of Kingston Penitentiary out of fear for his life. Goyer replied to Stafford that he could not comment on Robert's murder because it was now under police investigation, but stated that Robert had been held in the 1-D range at Kingston Penitentiary for child killers and child molesters for his own safety. Another MP, the Liberal Terrence Murphy then rose to tell Goyer that in 1970 he visited several prisons and had discovered that "undesirable" prisoners such as Robert were segregated from the other prisoners. Murphy told Goyer: "They live in conditions we would not expect a dog to live under. They spent twenty-three and a half hour a day in cramped cells and looked like hungry chickens begging for food". Goyer replied that he needed more time to study the problems of prison life. On 27 May 1971, the Ontario Provincial Police charged 11 Millhaven guards with 24 counts of assault causing grievous bodily harm in connection with the mass beatings on 18-19 April 1971. Goyer told the House of Commons that he would not fire the 11 guards charged unless they were convicted and announced that the Crown would pay for their defense counsel at their trial.

Aftermath
In response to a media firestorm about the conditions in Canadian prisons, which had become a topic of public interest since the Kingston riot, on 20 July 1971, Goyer announced that he was amending the Penitentiaries Act to give prisoners the right to elect committees to advise the prison authorities about living conditions in the prisons. He told the House of Commons: "We recognize committees of prisoners elected by the inmate population can provide vital communication between the inmates and the prison administration". Fogarty wrote that Goyer took a harsh and gratuitously aggressive approach during the Kingston penitentiary riot, but rather "surprisingly" became an advocate of prison reform afterwards, a choice in approach that she credited to the Kingston penitentiary riot as Goyer wanted to prevent more prison riots.

On 24 April 1972, the Royal Commission under Justice J.W. Swackhamer presented its report to Goyer on the causes of the Kingston Penitentiary riot. The report concluded that the root cause of the riot was the government's policy of keeping prisoners in their cells for 16 hours per day and the policy of ending recreations such as sports teams and sports events. The parts of the Swackhammer report which stated that 86 prisoners had been beaten at Millhaven on 18-19 April 1971 and that the attacks had ordered by Warden John D. Clark, deputy warden Patrick McKegeny and Deputy Warden Howard S. Bell were censored. Swackhammer had recommended that Clark, McKegeny and Bell be fired for ordering the mass beatings, but no one was ever fired for the beatings.

RCMP espionage
In May 1971, Goyer received a memo from Starnes entitled "The Changing Nature of the Threat from the New Left-Extra Parliamentary Opposition and the Penetration of the Government". The memo from Starnes was a response to Goyer's request for an "enemies' list" of federal civil servants. Starnes listed 21 civil servants whom he believed were abusing their positions to advance extreme left-wing causes. Goyer in turn sent out a memo to several other ministers about the 21 civil servants whom Goyer accused of being "former campus revolutionaries" who were working for "the destruction of the existing political and social structure of Canada".

In response, several of the civil servants named on Goyer's list were promptly fired. Higgitt was in June 1971 to receive a memo from Robin Bourne of the Solicitor General's office saying that Goyer wanted monthly reports of the number and locations of RCMP electronic eavesdropping operations with regard to the FLQ and its supporters, but was not interested in "the operational side of these activities such as how various devices are installed". At the same time, John Kennett Starnes, the director of the RCMP Security Service sent a memo to Higgitt stating that the electronic eavesdropping operations "are or may be outside the law" as the RCMP rarely asked for a warrant, but that Goyer was not to be informed. Later in June 1971, Starnes wrote a memo to Goyer asking for permission for the RCMP to review tax filings and requests for unemployment insurance, which he stated was necessary for his intelligence-gathering. Goyer lobbied both the Revenue minister Herb Gray and the Labour minister Bryce Mackasey for the Mounties to be allowed access to tax filings and unemployment insurance claims "in a manner which would attract no attention or criticism".

In September 1971, Goyer ended the restriction imposed in 1961 on the RCMP conducting intelligence operations on universities, though he added that the RCMP had to seek permission in writing from himself in the event of recruiting a paid informer or conducting a bugging operation on a university. The number of paid informers on universities was small as by 1972 the Mounties had a total of five paid informers working in or attending universities. Goyer however excluded unpaid informers on universities from needing his prior approval, thus meaning the RCMP could recruit any university professor or student as an informer without seeking Goyer's approval in writing provided the informer was not being paid.

In May 1972, the RCMP burned down a barn in St. Anne-de-la-Rochelle in Quebec's Eastern Townships because it was believed the barn was going to be used for a meeting between the FLQ and the Black Panther Party. The barn-burning was to be one of the more controversial acts committed by the RCMP, but was justified when it emerged under the grounds that the FLQ and the Black Panthers were working together to launch a cross-border guerrilla war against the United States and Canada. Goyer was later to deny that he known of the barn-burning. In October 1972, the Mounties broke into the Montreal office of a separatist publishing house, the Agence de Presse Libre du Québec (APLQ). Goyer met with Starnes and Higgitt after the APLQ break-in, but he was to later claim that the break-in was not discussed. Even at the time, there were allegations that the Mounties were behind the APLQ break-in as it was noted that the thieves had only taken the files in the APLP office. Goyer was to claim at the McDonald commission hearings that because the Quebec Justice Minister Jérôme Choquette had denied in a press conference that any police forces were involved in the APLQ break-in that for him it settled the matter and he did not ask Higgitt or Starnes about it. Contrary to Goyer's testimony, both Starnes and Higgitt were to testify at the McDonald Commission that they had in fact informed Goyer that the Mounties had staged the APLQ break-in, which had provided a treasure trove of information about Quebec separatists as both maintained that the minister was kept fully informed about the illegal means the RCMP obtained intelligence.

Penal reforms
In September 1971, Goyer introduced the penal reforms that he had been promising since the spring of 1971. Under his reforms, prisoners' in federal penitentiaries were permitted to grow their hair long; allowed greater chances to earn parole; were permitted for the first time in Canadian history conjugal visits with their wives and girlfriends; and allowed greater educational opportunities as most Canadian criminals were barely literate. Goyer told the House of Commons when introducing his bill: "For too long a time now, our punishment-oriented society has cultivated a state of mind that demands that offenders, whatever their age, and whatever the offence, be placed behind bars. Too many Canadians object to looking at offenders as members of our society, and seem to disregard the fact that the correctional process aims at making the offender a useful and law-abiding citizen, and not any more an individual alienated from society and in conflict with it. Consequently, we have decided from now on to stress the rehabilitation of individuals, rather than the protection of society. Our reforms will perhaps be criticized for being too liberal or for omitting to protect society against dangerous criminals. This new policy will probably involve some risk, but we cannot maintain a system which in itself can cause even more obvious dangers."

1972 election
Following the 1972 election, he became Minister of Supply and Services. The Liberals won the 1972 election by only two seats, winning 109 seats to the 107 won by the Conservatives. As the prime minister of a minority government, Trudeau wanted strong Quebec representation in his cabinet to ensure its survival. In the 1972 election Quebecois voters had voted solidly for the Liberals, which proved to be the Trudeau government's salvation as the Liberals had failed to win the majority of the seats in the other 9 provinces.

Aircraft buying scandal
In 1975-1976, Goyer was involved in the fiasco of buying long range patrol aircraft for patrolling the skies above the near north and far north. The procurement process was marked by a convoluted and confusing purchasing process under which the Department of National Defense set the requirements for the aircraft to be purchased while the Department of Industry was responsible for negotiating with the suppliers for the "industrial offsets" (the parts of the aircraft to be manufactured in Canada) while the Department of Supply was charged with actually buying the aircraft.

A recurring theme of Trudeau's time in office was his wish to "rationalize" the governing process by changing the bureaucratic structure in a manner intended to make for greater efficiency. With regard to defense procurement, Trudeau had imposed the requirement that any arms or weapons purchased should cost as little as possible while creating the maximum "offsets" to the Canadian economy by ensuring investments in Canadian manufacturing from whatever supplier had won the arms contract. The majority of the arms and weapons systems purchased by Canada came from abroad, and the policy of seeking "offsets" was imposed in order to ensure that the purchase of arms created at least some economic benefit to Canada. Typically, an "offset" was sought with regard to aircraft by having at least parts of any aircraft purchased manufactured in Canada and/or having Canadian firms serve as sub-contractors in the manufacturing process. The decision to have three departments involved in buying the long range patrol aircraft was intended by Trudeau to "rationalize" the procurement process by assigning to each department the area in which it specialized in, but as was often the case with Trudeau's "rationalization" schemes the results were the opposite from those intended. With three ministries in charge of the procurement process, the costs escalated out of control and the project was cancelled in May 1976. The political scientist Michael Tucker wrote that the long range patrol aircraft procurement was marred by "bureaucratic mismanagement ensuring from ill-defined responsibilities, poor communication, and misinformation".

During his time as Minister of Supply, Goyer was involved in a lengthy libel suit launched against him by a civil servant about remarks that Goyer had made over the cost of buying new long range patrol aircraft. On 1 June 1976, Goyer had told the House of Commons about the $1 billion dollar cost overrun on buying long range patrol aircraft: "I stand by my officials and I accept responsibility for errors in judgement, mistakes made in good faith, and inadvertent errors. But I do not believe ministerial responsibility extends to cases of misinformation or gross negligence". When asked to repeat those remarks outside of the House of Commons where the legal immunity of MPs to libel does not apply, Goyer did so and named the civil servant he had assigned as the Department of Supply's representative to the long range aircraft procurement, Lawrence Stopforth, by name as the official responsible for the "gross negligence". During the same press conference, Goyer had accused Stopforth of "gross negligence" and of "misinforming" him of the costs of buying long range aircraft, causing Stopforth to sue for libel.

RCMP blacklist
In March 1976, Robert Samson, a former Mountie on trial for a bombing testified that he committed far worse crimes during his time as a RCMP officer, which drew public attention onto the illegal activities of the RCMP and Goyer who been the minister in charge of the RCMP during the time that the Mounties were breaking the law. In October 1976, the allegation was made of a RCMP "blacklist" of federal civil servants who were to be watched because their views were aimed at "the destruction of the existing political and social structure of Canada". Goyer denied in the House of Commons that he ordered the RCMP to compile a "blacklist" or that the "blacklist" even existed, but it was confirmed on 16 October 1976 that he had indeed ordered the RCMP to make the "blacklist" in 1971.

1978 Stopforth libel case
In 1978 the Stopforth libel case came to trial. On 1 April 1978, Justice Lieff awarded Stopforth $10, 000 dollars in the libel case. Lieff ruled that because of the legal immunity enjoyed by MPs when speaking in the House of Commons that Stopforth could not sue Goyer for his remarks inside the House of Commons, but only for his remarks outside the House of Commons. About Goyer's statements to the media, Lieff ruled in favor of Stopforth, stating it is an ancient principle in the British parliamentary system that ministers are the ones responsible for what happens in their portfolios, and it was unacceptable for Goyer to blame Stopforth for what was ultimately his responsibility for the $1 billion cost overrun in buying long range patrol aircraft. Thus it was on the technical grounds that in the Westminster system that is ministers rather than civil servants who are the ones ultimately responsible for what occurs in their portfolios that Lieff ruled in favor of Stopforth rather than on the merits of the case. Goyer lost the libel case in 1978, but won on an appeal in 1979. Again, the case was decided on technical grounds with the appeals judge ruling that Goyer's remarks to the media were an extension of parliamentary privilege of immunity from libel for remarks made inside the House of Commons.

McDonald Commission
Between 1977-1981, the McDonald Commission reviewed the practices of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police against the militant wing of the separatist movement and this led to the creation of a separate civilian security agency, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service in 1984. The intelligence responsibilities were removed from the federal police force. The McDonald Commission discovered that in 1972 that Goyer along with the Justice Minister Otto Lang were informed by Higgitt and Starnes that the RCMP were staging break-ins to plant bugs on Quebec separatists. The records of the meeting state that Lang and Goyer were informed by Higgitt and Stranes that the RCMP was engaged in "perhaps illegal" ways of planting bugs. Goyer testified at the McDonald Commission that the RCMP was dominated by men of British background as he stated during his time as Solicitor General that he was often told that "the RCMP is a WASP organization and proud of it". He testified that the RCMP had a culture of institutionalized chauvinism as the Mounties were overwhelmingly male, white, Protestant and of British descent, and his efforts to recruit more women and people of non-British background were unsuccessful. Goyer testified that he had as Solicitor General had only a limited control over the RCMP as proven by the failure of his diversity campaign.

About the illegal break-in by the RCMP into a separatist publishing house in Montreal, the Agence de Presse Libre du Québec (APLQ), in October 1972, Goyer testified that he never asked about it during his time as Solicitor General because he could not believe the RCMP would break the law. When Higgitt was asked at the McDonald commission hearings about the 1971 memo from Starnes saying the RCMP bugging operations "are or may be outside the law", Higgitt testified that "for some reason or another" he never mentioned the memo to Goyer. Higgitt stated that as the RCMP commissioner "you don't go out of the way to put the minister at risk". In 1978, Goyer's first marriage ended in divorce with his wife filing to end the marriage under the grounds that his long-time chief of staff was also his mistress whom he had given a free pass with Air Canada. The scandal further damaged Goyer's reputation, and led to demands for his resignation.

Goyer left Cabinet in November 1978 and announced that he would not run in the 1979 election. He returned to the practice of law in Montreal. His decision to retire is believed to be related to the controversy caused by the illegal activities of the RCMP during his time as Solicitor General. The McDonald Commission hearings created a cloud over Goyer's reputation that has never gone away. About the allegation that Goyer ordered the APLQ break-in, Lalonde stated that Goyer's intense pressure on the RCMP to collect more intelligence on the FLQ may have been misunderstood by overzealous Mounties with Lalonde saying: "The Mounties were under stress to obtain and collect information, but they had no agents in the field, nothing to go on. I am not convinced Goyer ever directed RCMP Commissioner John Starnes to do anything illegal. No minister would have directly done that." By contrast, the journalist Jeff Sallot expressed skepticism about Goyer's claims of ignorance made at the McDonald Commission, noting that he was shown a memo in 1972 saying that the RCMP was engaged in "perhaps illegal" activities. Sallot also noted that Higgitt had in the same memo wanted the solicitor general to have the power to approve bugging operations under the grounds that judges when faced with a request for a warrant asked too many questions about the "perhaps illegal" sources of RCMP intelligence, which should had been a warning sign to Goyer. Fogarty described Goyer as a something of a failure as a politician, a "protégé" of Trudeau of whom great accomplishments were expected, but who instead was almost continuously embroiled in controversy with "constant demands" being made for his resignation due to his actions as a minister.

Patron of the arts
After his retirement in 1979, Goyer worked as a lawyer in Montreal and served as a director on the board of Bombardier Inc. He married his second wife, Nicole Forbes, in Montreal. Goyer used his great wealth to serve as a patron of the arts, especially of classical music. He served as the head of the Montreal Arts Council.. Reflecting his interest in music, Goyer served as the president of the Orchestre Métropolitain starting in 1998.

In 2000, as the president of the Orchestre Métropolitain, Goyer fired the chief conductor, Joseph Rescigno, to make way for his choice of chief conductor, Yannick Nézet-Séguin. Ever since 1998, Goyer had been in conflict with Rescigno over the artistic direction that the Orchestre Métropolitain was to go. Rescigno sued for wrongful dismissal and won $290, 00 dollars with a judge ruling that Goyer had fired Resicgno in "a brutal, abrasive and malicious manner." Justice Sylviane Borenstein also ruled that the remarks made by Goyer about Rescigno as a conductor at a press conference on 9 March 2000 were "false," "insulting," "gratuitous," and "malicious." , The Orchestre Métropolitain briefly sought bankruptcy protection, but did pay Rescigno the damages he had been awarded in May 2006. On 23 May 2006, Goyer was forced to resign in disgrace from the Orchestre Métropolitain.

There is a Jean-Pierre Goyer fonds at Library and Archives Canada. Jean-Pierre Goyer is also honoured with Mécénat Musica Prix Goyer for collaborative emerging artist.

title: Jean-Pierre Goyer


text: Category:Call signs

title: Category:Call signs


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kibbutz/archive1

kibbutz
Admittedly a self nom, please review, post votes and comments.Dinopup 04:41, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Phils 16:05, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support - well-written, very good article. Morwen - Talk 12:44, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Johnleemk | Talk 14:23, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Object. This article needs extensive copyediting. The prose simply isn't at the level you'd expect from a featured article. I have no problem with adopting a more informal style in certain articles, but there are just too many sentences that require fixing in there. A few problems I see with the writing, in no particular order:
 * some sentences could use more precision or have dubious wording ("This part of the ideology can be best expressed in the Zionist-kibbutz saying "to make the desert bloom."" - it's easy the to understand the author meant the ideology at hand can be illustrated by the saying, but the sentence is somewhat strange).
 * a lot of inaccurate punctuation and typos, including inconsistent use of kibbutzim vs. kibbutz (ex.: "The place of primary kibbutz focus - the Galilee was a well-watered place.", "The first kibbutzniks hoped to be more than being farmers in Palestine, they even hoped for more than a Jewish homeland there, they wanted to create a new type of society where there would be no exploitation of anyone and where all would be equal.").
 * repetition (including recurrence of uncommon words - "hitherto" - and re-use of metaphors "fissure" used twice in 2-3 sentences to mean a "split in the movement")
 * inconsistent use of times - why are sections like "Life on a kibbutz" written in the past: there are next to no specific dates given in that section
 * lack of structure: "The Pioneers" touches subjects like the status of children in a kibbutz, military involvement of "kibbutzniks" in Isreal, questions of ownership, that should be treated in seperate sections (perhaps subsections of "Life on a kibbutz?")
 * I'm not sure I like the reference quoting style ((Gavron, 45)). I do not consider it a good reason to object though, because we don't really have a standard way of referencing inline quotes, but I doubt everyone will immediately understand where they need to go to find a specific quote when confronted with a reference given in this format.
 * "The Pioneers" section should be refocused on the historical Degania kibbutz, and give more dates and precise quantitative information about the early kibbutz movement. Throughout the whole section, it is unclear wether "kibbutzniks" refers only to the original Degania kibbutz members or to all members of early kibbutzim. More precise dates please. Also, "kibbutzim in Independent Israel" - is it correct to capitalize "independent"? - should become a subsection of "The Pioneers".
 * Although this is probably the least of this (quite good, don't get me wrong) article, I can't help suspecting the author has a certain admiration for the whole movement ("...fought very bravely", capitalized section name "The Pioneers"). I might very well be wrong, though.

 * I made all of the edits based on Phils' suggestions. I got rid of repeated uncommon words, I clarified the "make the desert bloom" quotation.  Since it wasn't clear when I was talking about Degania and when I was talking about the whole kibbutz movement I made things clearer there as well.  (Degania was the first kibbutz, but in many ways it was not a typical kibbutz, hence the frequent references to it).  I also explained the terms "kibbutznik" and "kibbutzim."  A kibbutznik is just a member of a kibbutz.  All the sources I read used "kibbutzniks" as the plural, rather than "kibbutznikim" (which I suppose is the Hebrew plural).  In case of objection to my using "fought bravely," I changed that bit to "were widely considered to have fought bravely."  I use the term Pioneers because traditional kibbutz historiography calls the earliest kibbutzniks "Pioneers."

 * There was also an issue with "Life on a Kibbutz" being in the past tense. Since I was discussing life on a kibbutz in the days of communal living (as opposed to the last 20 yrs), I changed that heading to "The Communal Life."

 * Phils, thank you for your suggestions, I can tell that you read the article very carefully.Dinopup 18:19, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Object. Agree this needs further copyediting, wikilinks, and possibly further sectioning.--ZayZayEM 02:44, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)


text: User talk:84.113.11.218

title: User talk:84.113.11.218


text:
Thomas Phillips (disambiguation)

Thomas Phillips (1770–1845) was an English painter.

Thomas or Tom Phillips may also refer to:

Business

 * Thomas L. Phillips Jr., businessman, co-founder of Spy magazine
 * Tom Phillips, former chief executive officer of Mitsubishi Motors Australia
 * Thomas L. Phillips, chairman and chief executive officer of Raytheon

Entertainment

 * Thomas King Ekundayo Phillips (1884–1969), Nigerian organist, conductor, composer and teacher
 * Thomas Hal Phillips (1922–2007), American actor and screenwriter
 * Tom Phillips (artist) (1937–2022), English artist
 * Tom Phillips (musician), American musician in the band While Heaven Wept
 * Tom Phillips, author of 2018 non-fiction book Humans: A Brief History of How We F*cked It All Up

Law

 * Thomas Hawthorne Phillips (1914–1975), Justice of the Supreme Court of Texas
 * Thomas W. Phillips (judge) (born 1943), federal judge, District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee
 * Thomas R. Phillips (born 1949), Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court

Politics

 * Thomas Phillips (Irish adventurer) (1560–1633), founder of Limavady, governor of the county of Coleraine, first license to distil whiskey
 * Thomas Phillips (mayor) (1801–1867), Welsh lawyer, politician and businessman
 * Thomas Wharton Phillips (1835–1912), Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Pennsylvania
 * Thomas Wharton Phillips Jr. (1874–1956), Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Pennsylvania
 * Thomas Williams Phillips (1883–1966), British civil servant
 * Tom Phillips (diplomat) (born 1950), British diplomat
 * Tom Phillips (Kansas politician), Republican member of the Kansas House of Representatives
 * Thomas Phillips (MP for Hastings) (died 1626), MP for Hastings
 * Sir Thomas Phelipps, 1st Baronet or Thomas Phillips, MP for Winchester
 * Thomas Phelips or Phillips, MP for Poole and Wareham

Sports

 * Tommy Phillips (1883–1923), Canadian ice hockey star and war hero
 * Tom Phillips (baseball) (1889–1929), American baseball pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles and Cleveland Indians
 * Tom Phillips (racing driver) (born 1962), American race car driver
 * Tom Hannifan (born 1989), American wrestling commentator better known as Tom Phillips in WWE
 * Tom Phillips (Australian footballer) (born 1996), for the Hawthorn Football Club
 * Tom Phillips (rugby union) (born 1996), Welsh rugby player
 * Thomas Phillips (rower), American rower who won gold medal at the 1979 World Rowing Championships

Other

 * Thomas G. Phillips (1937–2022), English physicist and astronomer
 * Thomas Phelippes (1556–1625), English intelligence agent
 * Thomas Phillips (engineer) (died 1693), English military engineer
 * Thomas Phillips (priest) (1708–1774), English Jesuit biographer
 * Thomas Phillips (educational benefactor) (1760–1851), founder of Llandovery College in Wales
 * Thomas Phillipps (1792–1872), British antiquary and book collector
 * Thomas Benbow Phillips (1829–1915), pioneer of the Welsh settlements in Brazil
 * Thomas Jodrell Phillips (1807–1897), English philanthropist, changed his name to Thomas Jodrell Phillips Jodrell in 1868
 * Tom Phillips (Royal Navy officer) (1888–1941), British admiral

title: Thomas Phillips (disambiguation)


text:
Municipalities of Puebla

Puebla is a state in central Mexico that is divided into 217 municipalities. According to the 2020 Mexican census, it is the fifth most populated state with  inhabitants and the 21st largest by land area spanning 34309.6 km2.

Municipalities in Puebla are administratively autonomous of the state according to the 115th article of the 1917 Constitution of Mexico. Every three years, citizens elect a municipal president (Spanish: presidente municipal), by a plurality voting system, who heads a concurrently elected municipal council (ayuntamiento) which is responsible for providing all the public services for their constituents. The municipal council consists of a variable number of trustees and councillors (regidores y síndicos). Municipalities are responsible for public services (such as water and sewerage), street lighting, public safety, traffic, and the maintenance of public parks, gardens and cemeteries. They may also assist the state and federal governments in education, emergency fire and medical services, environmental protection and maintenance of monuments and historical landmarks. Since 1984, they have had the power to collect property taxes and user fees, although more funds are obtained from the state and federal governments than from their own income.

The largest municipality by population is Puebla, with 1,692,181 residents (25.70% of the state's total), while the smallest is San Miguel Ixitlán with 526 residents. The largest municipality by land area is Chiautla which spans 804.2 km2, and the smallest is Rafael Lara Grajales with 4.1 km2. The newest municipality is Ahuehuetitla, established in 1963.

title: Municipalities of Puebla


text:
User talk:LaurieRay

Dependency theory
I think your mistake was to click the "edit" link next to the external links section - that will result in your being able to edit only the part of the article which is in that section (in this case, just the external link). What you probably want is the "edit this page" link at the very top of the article, directly above its title; this will allow you to edit the entire article at once. I've removed the excess text. Best of luck. — Dan | Talk 19:43, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:LaurieRay