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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement/Archive 2

Consistency in referencing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
I have noticed that many the references on Wikipedia use "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". However, as noted in the Style section of the project page, the Capital T is preferred a) for consistency, b) in accordance with the style guide, c) for ease in translating the name into other languages, and d) because the "the" is part of the official name. I have added a requested project to make this consistent through the Latter Day Saint movement articles when referring to the branch of the movement headquartered in Salt Lake City.

However, since I am newer (been using since March, editing since Nov) to wikipedia, I am wondering if any discussion has taken place around this issue. The main discussion around names seems to be LDS vs Mormon vs CJC. Since I am willing to take on this project, but before I do I want to see if there are any objections to: Obviously, I think that all three should be made even if naming with "The" may be contrary to Wikipedia style, i.e. to include (a, an or the) as the first word in the name of an article. However, the name should match what the church calls itself.
 * 1) making all references The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
 * 2) Making the word "The" capitalized and consistent
 * 3) Putting forward an RfC (long time wikipedians help me here if I get the terminology wrong) to vote on whether the page name should change to include the "The"
 * --Trodel 21:59, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with all of this. I'll help out with what you need. :)Cookiecaper 23:35, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * There was discussion on this issue at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Mormonism). I say yes, but it's not a priority for me. The Salt Lake Tribune writes extensively on the LDS Church, and they use a capital "The." I prefer putting the capital under the link like " The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ". This is cumbersome, but I think putting it under the link makes it obvious to others that it's not a mistake. I also notice some others link to the redirect, which I think is fine. Cool Hand Luke  06:48, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * There seems to be concensus at the link you refer to so unless there is an objection I will move the page and start updating the links. As an aside - Wikipedia has gotten EXTREMELY slow lately - it will make doing the link updates extremely - are there any plans for additional hardware to resolve this issue (or a plan to turn off searching again to make things go faster?) Thanks for the offer of help Cookiecaper - I will let you know. --Trodel 18:30, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * That could get messy. We have a lot of pages that would need to be moved like History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Weirdly, Controversies regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints already uses the capital. I think we should get some more comment before moving these pages, but definetly use the "The" as needed in articles. Cool Hand Luke  21:59, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree to wait for more comment, but I am hesitant to start including The on all of the links and replacing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because that would be a lot of work if the move happens and then all the same links need to be updated again. However, unless there are objections I will start updating non-links that use the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. --Trodel 22:34, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It should be done as appropriate - peice by piece. If we know what our end goal is, let's move toward it, but my suggestion is to create re-directs for the time being, and slowly (perhaps 1-2 articles a week) making the naming changes. See my comments at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Mormonism) Thoughts? -Visorstuff 00:16, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree with V. By the way, I assume you are using Firefox. When the 'pedia gets slow, tabbed browsing comes to the rescue as you open several links in several tabs and work on them as they come ready. Tom H. 14:27, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

I support the change to "The" Church etc. Sometimes it is best just to jump with both feet, however I understand taking a step by step process. At some point it just needs to be complete and final. Storm Rider 12:14, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Page Move Vote. The page move vote failed to reach concensus although there were 63% in favor of the move (17-10). For the discussion see the talk page for The CJC. However based on the above comments I have started to link to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the wiki. If you want to help the pages that remain are on User:Trödel/Tasksmy user pages.

 * Sorry, but this seems to me to be deliberate link-breaking. "Soft-breaking", yes, but breaking all the same.  The earlier suggestion to link to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints avoids the ostenatious 'banging into a direct' syndrome, and surely must be preferable.  That's if The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is for some reason violently unacceptable and peremptorily-revertable, as appears to be the case, never mind that it conforms with the above Style requirements. Alai 04:19, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't guess that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is violently unacceptable and preremptorily-revertable. And I don't guess that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that uses a redirect is problematic.  My reason for undoing your revert was that the edit in question was simply following project style guidelines.  I was pretty sure you were unaware that the edits were guideline-compliant, and that is why I suggested you might drop in here.  If I understand correctly, some of the editors thought it would be nice to put the The in the link, and the rest of us came to a consensus that the simplest way to accomplish that was to link to the redirect.  I won't stand in the way of either direction, I simply was restoring the good-faith, compliant edits made harmonious with project   style.  I really appreciate your vigilance and dedication.  Tom H. 04:50, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * Note that my edit wasn't precisely a revert, since it deliberately and explicitly retained the capitalisation change. If there's a project style guideline to the effect that links should be to the redirect, I'm still unaware of it:  there's discussion of it (and several other possibilities) above, yes, but I don't see any consensus achieved (or even declared to have been achieved).  The failure of the move vote is surely a factor to be taken into consideration;  if you'd like to see a Capitalised The, and lack of a pointed-looking "redirect" message when you follow the link (as I would), then either of the other two forms ought to be seriously considered.  Thanks for your kind and encouraging comments.  Alai 05:18, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Unfortunately this discussion on naming for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has gone on in many places Wikipedia_Talk:Naming conventions (Mormonism), here, and Talk:The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and one other place I can't remember. The concensus for the move was pretty clear - only 1 no vote to moving (though some tepid support). Unfortunately becaue there was a history at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including an AUTOMATED move (without any concensus) of the original article (which was at the correct spot) to Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This necessitated that the change be brought up on Requested moves where concensus failed by a 17-10 vote in favor of the change. Since there is only 1 page load even with a redirect and the use of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is so awkward, it was proposed (without objection) to name with just allow the redirect to happen. Do you object to using The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for any reason other than because it is a redirect. 13:43, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * In a word, no. Nor was I opposed to the move.  But I am indeed objecting on those grounds.  I'm sympathetic to the concerns here, but deliberately changing perfectly well-targetted links to redirect-pointing ones is either pre-empting the vote result (if done in good faith prior to the result), or subverting it.  And the alternatives seem perfectly good to me.  (I know what you mean about the location(s) of the discussion;  had to go a-hunting quite a bit myself) Alai 19:08, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * The problem is that it is only a matter of time that the move is approved. a 17/10 vote can be quickly moved to a 30/10 vote within a few months. (Not that we are thinking of campaigning, but that Wikipedia in general is moving in that direction slowly based on some new article titles with a capitalized 'The'). The issue is that we need to conform with project and naming conventions of captializing the The in reference to the name of the Church. That has already been decided. The name change is simply moving it to another location. Since consitency is needed we've found it much easier to type The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when changing articles than typing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints each time -- especially when most of us feel we will have to go through the naming vote within a few months, and it will likely get approval then. It is wasted work for a simple (and already set up) re-direct. -Visorstuff 21:17, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I think the attitude expressed here is more than pre-emptive, it's positively unilateralist. You repeat the point about capitalisation:  which I again must point out is not the issue -- my reverted text included a capitalised The.  If the typing is too much for you, I suggest you investigate such cutting-edge technologies as cut and paste.  What's more, there have been edits of links already in the form of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints back to point-to-the-redirect format -- whoever's trying to save themselves typing is doing a better job of making an ostentatious point, it seems to me.  What's more, the the (re-)capitalisation hasn't even been completed for pages which are not problematic in any sense; look at any number of pages linked to from this very article: President_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints doesn't even exist, in its 'correct' form, only with the dreaded lower-case 't'.  Why not make a priority of fixing those, since they can be done without breaking anything else? Alai 03:00, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't had time to research the unilateralist charge here, but I can say that I have made a list of the pages returned by google as having "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" on them and as I have time have tried to update the links within them, since I am somewhat new I was leaving it to others more experienced to move the articles (plus that would create additional work in fixing the links (since that is the responsibility of the mover. See User:Trödel/Tasks. This conversation seems to be a lot more confrontational than it needs to be - e.g. "...cutting-edge technologies as cut and paste." What page is in question that is bothering you so much. Thanks  04:58, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't follow your latter reference here, sorry. I don't mean to seem confrontational, but I find Visorstuff's attitude extremely frustrating: "only a matter of time that the move is approved" as a reason for acting as if it had already been approved is unilateralism, pure and simple.  The "The" policy's an ad hoc mess, and it strikes me as rash to extrapolate an outcome based on "current trends".  And the "much easier to type" may or not have have meritted sarcasm, but can hardly stand up as a serious argument -- hence the comment.  Alai 05:46, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I can't speak for others motivations but mine are that including the The as part of the link makes it much easier forme when I am reading to distinguish between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints especially since the names are so close and one is much larger and more notable than the other. And as I mention somehwere else I see it as common courtesy - when you meet someone it is just courteous to address them by their preferred name. Although there has been some confusion in the past, there has been a consistent effort, especially in this information age where identity is easily confused and intentionally confused by those who want to criticise a topic - beyond the wiki. In the webspace - getting one's rankings up on google in order to be higher than the topic or company you are criticising is common. I see my efforts as an attempt to show respect for the reasonable wishes of a community. 12:13, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I understand your concern with using a link to the redirect. What I have seen is that most references say, "...that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes ..." very few say "...that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches ..."
 * These need to be changed to be The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at the very least. Since "The" is part of the name of the church it should be included in the link even if it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have been making the changes and if you check my contributions I have consistently chosen the former The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Where this is has been objected to and the topic is not directly related to the Latter Day Saint movement I have gone with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because I have not the energy to help someone understand why it should be made. However, on articles directly on the Latter Day Saint movement and especially on those that directly address The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I think that there has been a concensus that we should use the proper and full name of the church - I think it is a matter of respecting the one another. If you meet me and say hello James, and I say please call me Jim - you would call me Jim (I hope). The same is true of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They have been introduced and have asked that they be called by their full name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the first reference.
 * Creating a redirect is no extra work for the software. And I don't quite see how it is "either pre-empting the vote result (if done in good faith prior to the result), or subverting it." since the vote was not on what to call the name of the Church but on whether to move the page, and as I mentioned before, as far as I can tell The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been around longer first as the location of the original article and after the page was moved (again WITHOUT a vote) a redirect. We should be able to wikify to the easier name. Though as I write this I think to myself that I could have used the long form about 10-15 times (depending on the speed that the Mediawiki software is working today) in the time it took me to write this.  02:46, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I did find it curious that the original 2001 entry for the church was with "The." However, I'm not opposed to letting the issue sit for a few months. As Visorstuff suggests, the precedent of including articles for institutions that use them seems to be gaining ground (like The Gambia and The George Washington University). In several months the vote may look very different. Let's let this slide for now. In the mean time, I think we should move other articles to match the capitalization employed in Controversies regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Cool Hand Luke  04:20, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree - the temperature is much hotter than it needs to be for this discussion. 05:01, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Please consider voting opposition to renaming The George Washington University to George Washington University. This rename was proposed, I think, as retaliation for being cited as precedent for The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS proposed move. See the requested moves page.Trödel 12:18, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * What I found very weird about that vote is that someone suggested the article's author was attempting to bolster our move. The principle author, so far as I can tell, has nothing to do with this debate but simply realized how possesive (as COGDEN put it) the university is of their "the." Cool Hand Luke  04:20, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I know - but it was definately done as an anti-authority proposal. And someone who felt strongly that "The" should never lead an article name. The transparency of it was the thing that made it weird. 05:01, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi this project doesn't have anyone working on it.
That's sad. :( Cookiecaper 06:02, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I don't know how to "use" this project. This page is on my watchlist. Is there more? Tom - Talk 14:54, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

I am actually working on additions for the following articles - Emma Hale Smith and Hypocephalus, however, the controversies over at Reformed Egyptian have preoccupied my thoughts - let's keep the discussion going. Any word on how individual Apostles' pages are going? -Visorstuff 15:25, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

New article
Though I'm not a formal member of this project (or even an informal member!), I do visit a lot of LDS articles. I just wrote a new stub on the Haun's Mill Massacre. It needs a lot of work and fact-checking since I wrote it just from what I remember on the incident. Just thought I'd mention it, edit at will... :-)  — Frecklefoot | Talk 22:31, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks man. I just edited it a lot. :) Cookiecaper 04:54, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

XENU
So the article Xenu talks about Scientology stuff that some Scientologists aren't supposed to know. I think some of us should do something about that. Isn't there some policy that that violates? I know we'd fight hard if some of things from the Temple were added here that weren't supposed to be. So let's help our Scientology friends, since there doesn't appear to be any here, or any who care. Unless I'm misunderstanding here. But what do you all think? Cookiecaper

 * I can't believe Xenu's a featured article—it seems quite hostile (ie, the accusation that Hubbard was on a diet of drugs when he wrote it)—and it does seem to set a kind of precedent. There would be a lot to write about temple ceremonies. The repeated "unveilings" and misinformation about alone could fill an article. I guess if such an article were written we would have to keep it (the stunning support for Xenu suggets that), but we should at least rewrite it in respectful manner without making it into a sideshow. I think that we can have these kinds of articles without going into so much detail about sacred beliefs.
 * As for helping scientologists: I think Xenu should be improved simply for the sake of wikipedia. Exposé-like prose is not encyclopedic IMO. Cool Hand Luke  09:00, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

As someone who follows Scientology, I think the page needs cleaning, not deleting. There is and has been quite a bit temple information on this encyclopedia, and while I disagree with the way it is presented, it still needs to be addressed. It should be treated with more caution and in more general terms, but still needs to be discussed. I also disagree with the tone of the article. Needs cleaning. But is that a discusson for this forum? Possibly from a precedent standpoint, I'd wager. I'll take a look, and suggest we all do. -Visorstuff 00:16, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Latter Day Saint
The term is confusing, but important. I am frustrated (just a little, not majorly) at how often some good-intentioned editor (usually a newbie), will change Latter Day Saint to Latter-day Saint. I suggest we explain the difference on every first reference of Latter Day Saint that it is different than Latter-day Saint. Not just as a hidden note, but in text. Suggestions? -Visorstuff 00:16, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Visor, I am one of those that has a problem with the term. Frankly, I was unaware of the term prior to seeing it on Wikipedia. In many respects I feel it is the tail wagging the dog. Based on a review of membership numbers the LDS are between 95% and 97% of the Mormon membership in the world. For the general public the term Latter Day Saint is very misleading because the distinction is not present in the society at large.

Coming from a family with both LDS and CofC members, I think we are straining at swallowing gnats. If the distinction doesn't exist in society, why are we trying to perpetrate it?

In saying this I understand that some of that 3% of membership in other groups will feel slighted, but we may be able to accomodate those groups in other ways rather than confusing society. I believe it is inappropriate to call any other group other than the LDS membershp Mormons. The other groups of sufficiently different beleifs that they are not Mormons, they have become something different. When we allow them to be called Mormon we only succeed in confusing the rest of the non-Mormon world. Storm Rider 00:21, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Interesting you two should be discussing this, because I was contemplating bringing it up too. I am afraid we have built up a little in-house style that doesn't really correlate with any working real-world nomenclature.  Mother Smith would have called the whole wonderful mess Mormonism.  That is what Jan Shipps calls it consistently, too.  I guess I could e-mail the CofC folks a bit, and Stormie can poll his CofC folks.  But bottom line is that I am afraid our system kind of amounts to "original" nomenclature.  I think it is a can of worms we have to open again (slowly).  Tom - Talk 03:46, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)

I do not think "Latter Day Saint" is an original term to Wikipedia. I agree with Storm Rider that you cannot call all the groups Mormons - it doesn't work as it does refer to LDS Church members. Latter-day Saints is very offensive to the Strangites, and Mormonism only refers to the culture and shared history not the unique peoples. Latter Day Saint is the term. If we can find something better, let's use it, but Mormonism and Mormons don't work. I think the only way to distinguish is to use a seperate term. COGDEN - you introduced the work to Wikipedia - could you provide some additional context before we look ot make a decision? In the mean time, let's look over our available research to see if any other terms are used. Unfortunately, I don't feel qualified to make a reccomendation on this one yet. I do think Latter Day Saint Movement is an accurate portrayal, however. More discussion is needed. CODGEN, we await your context.... -Visorstuff 00:35, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, of course you are right, V. I have personally bought in to Latter Day Saint Movement as a well-reasoned term that I do understand (based on what I've heard here) is not original to Wikipedia even if it is essentially unfamiliar to 99% of Latter Day Saints (how many people in your ward have heard of The Latter Day Saint Movement or used it in conversation or writing?).  The current scheme may be the best we can do, but that 99% unfamiliarity always nags at me.  Tom H. 14:52, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * I think this is a great term too - althought most members of LDS Church would not recognize it - I think its meaning is implicit and easy to grasp for most members of any of the church's which descended from Joseph Smith. Trödel 17:35, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

We can use "Joseph Smith restorationism" in some places where "Latter Day Saint movement" is used, because then it isn't so repetitive. But I don't really have an issue with Latter Day Saint as long as the context clarifies that it means all the churches of Joseph Smith restorationism. I also think that "Latter Day Saint" is overused and the other churches and/or their membership are referred to in places where it's not exactly necessary, but that's not so big of a deal. Cookiecaper 01:31, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Good suggestions. It is always good to review usage and be sure we are using the appropriate term. Tom H. 14:52, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

The "Latter Day Saint" / "Latter-day Saint" nomenclature is definitely not original to Wikipedia --- and it is proper usage employed by many historians of the broader movement. At conventions of the Mormon History Association and the John Whitmer Historical Association that I've attended, historians often make this distinction clearly whether they themselves are LDS, Community of Christ, Strangite, or --- like Jan Shipps --- none of the above. Although many members of the large Latter-day Saint church are unaware of the broader movement, this doesn't mean the rest of the movement doesn't exist and isn't important historically. --John Hamer 20:02, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

FLDS temple in Texas
Did you all see the aerial photograph published in the Eldorado Success of the temple dedication at the east end of a Nauvoo-temple-sized foundation at the FLDS YFZ ranch in Schleiser County, Texas? http://www.myeldorado.net/ Tom H. 14:31, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

Yup - posted some additional info at Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -Visorstuff 23:53, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow! Is there an LDS news source/board for this kind of thing? I feel out of the loop. Cool Hand Luke  01:50, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * http://www.religionnewsblog.com/ is a good place to start if you want to track news about various religious movements, including FLDS. -Visorstuff 18:47, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, being in Arizona and a plyg descendant (Jesse N. Smith, George Martin Haws, Charles Shumway, George Jeremiah Hatch, to name a few), I was in very tight for a while with the activists against child brides in Colorado City. So I have contributed a lot to the FLDS articles. V lives in Arizona too, and that may have something to do with his interest/knowledge. I don't know of any LDS board for this type of thing. Unfortunately, it was mostly ex-mormons I dealt with when I was working on the Colorado City problem, and I think they were pretty sure I would either apostatize or get called in by my bishop any day. It seems a lot of LDS are pretty touchy about the whole subject. All in all, it was good for me, and I learned some important lessons about discipleship, moral and spiritual personal responsibility, and reverence as I studied the plygs, the ex-mormons, and their favorite themes while I rubbed shoulders with them. Tom H. 04:25, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)

Reading your entry, Tom, made me laugh. When I was an EQP and polygamy was brought up by some elder, I made it very clear we don't teach polygamy (pros, cons, if it will be re-introduced or not or otherwise) in Church unless directed by the manuals (which is never is). We just don't teach it, according to OD 1. Anyway, me, my wife and my children are descendants of polygamous relationships (Parley P. Pratt, Anson Call, Henson Walker, Jacob Foutz, and a dozen or so more for me, John D. Lee and Jacob Hamblin for my wife). I understand that I don't understand the practice and cannot, because I don't live it. (Tom - I think we'd disagree on the practices in Colorado City and how to deal with them). I even remember visiting one of the the widowed wives of one of my great grandfathers as a young child we called her "Aunt ____." I think it is important to be aware of the movements within the Church, or with those who closely align themselves with the Latter Day Saint movement, such as the FLDS, as we see some of the same reasons why the LDS Church was persecuted in its early days recur again to these people. Anyway, I'm digressing...A good book I think every American should read who has interest about polygamy or seeks to fight it should be "A Mormon Mother: An Autobiography by Annie Clark Tanner." She was a secondary wife, didn't have much of a good relationship with her husband (did love him), but was committed to the gospel and the principle as it was taught at the time. She told her children that they would never understand polygamy, becase they didn't have to live it. A big eyeopener, and I feel, faithbuilder for anyone who believes something that is not neccessarily a popular religious belief. -Visorstuff 18:47, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

History of the Latter Day Saint movement
I never realized, until I started reading Lucy Mack Smith's book, that this article has factual problems. I am going to be working on it in the months to come.
 * Joseph Smith "raised" in New York? What about Vermont?
 * Joseph Smith from a "poor" family? But Lucy's brother and his business partner both gave her checks for $500 as wedding presents, which she put away "since she had enough money for her furniture" at that time.  She didn't cash the check until they came upon hard times much later.  They weren't po' folks.  In fact, in 1810 or 1815, they were starting to look forward to building up an estate for their golden years until the whole family took sick for an extended period and they spent all their dough on nurses, etc. and were reduced to attending "to present" necessities.  This is in the context of a sense that money was simply pretty abundant in the Mack family (I'm not sure it was in the Smith family).  Long story short, they weren't poor at all, but were working hard recovering and rebuilding at the time of Joseph's early teens.
 * "Engineer a fundamentally unique kind of Christianity?" Can we get this kind of quote from the likes of Jan Shipps?  It would sure be easier to swallow that way.
 * I'll be adding spiritual context from the Smith and Mack families. Lucy's missionary healer brother Jason and spiritual singing sisters, Joseph Senior's vision of the tree of life and others, Lucy Mack's visions, etc.

 * This is great. If it's not too much trouble, Lucy Mack Smith and Joseph Smith, Sr. could use some TLC along with Emma Hale. I'll get some Jan Shipps (is that quote from Lavina Fielding Anderson?). I wanted to write an article on Shipps anyway (although I'm terrible with procrastination). Cool Hand Luke  08:16, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Joseph wasn't really raised in Vermont. They moved to Palmyra in 1816 and that's a nice year I'd have to say. Joseph was 11 then. I think most of the real character building goes on during adolescence, and while Joseph probably had a lot of happy times in Vermont and things like that, I still think it's pretty accurate to say he was "raised" (as in elevated from a child to an adult) in New York. Of course though, that's kind of a relative thing, so maybe we should just say that they moved in 1816 when Joseph was 11. Cookiecaper 13:16, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There is a huge emphasis in this article on the Succession Crisis --- which, I admit is very important. But I propose to move this to a new article devoted to the Succession Crisis, leaving a summary on the History of the movement page. Added bonus for other articles --- I think making quick references to the Succession Crisis as I did in my article on the history of Nauvoo, Illinois, avoids a lot of redundancy. What say ye all? --John Hamer 05:28, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok folks, I did it. We'll see if you like it. I moved the info on the crisis to Succession Crisis (Mormon) and seriously overhauled and expanded it.  I left a summary and a link on the main history page.  --John Hamer 21:28, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Just a quick question - should this be at Succession Crisis (Mormonism) 22:30, 26

Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. I think I picked "Mormon" because I think of it as the "Mormon Succession Crisis" --- but it's not widely called that.  Anyway, switching to (Mormonism) would be an easy change, and I'd be fine with that.--John Hamer 14:11, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

User:John Hamer and Golden Plates
You may have noticed that User:John Hamer totally whipped Golden Plates into shape at one sitting yesterday. I think he is a Real ResearcherTM. He also touched several articles around that one, all for good. I thought for a bit he might have plagiarized Grampa Bill's GA pages (that are in turn plagiarized???), but nope, he actually had that much to say at his real desk. Let's welcome him and hope he stays a good long time. Tom H. 21:22, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi. Thanks for the welcome, Tom.  I'm very impressed with the tone and quality of the articles concering the Latter Day Saint movement here at Wikipedia.  Although I've used it as a reference, I only realized what Wikipedia was about at the beginning of January 2005.  Since then I've been expanding, editing or adding articles in this field of research — especially filling out articles related to the Missouri period and to the smaller denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement.
 * I've also toured many of the Latter Day Saint historic sites and taken pictures, so I've been adding photos. Now that I see this project page, I'll do better at following these guidelines.  I've created more than a few red-links that I've planned to go fill out, but I'll avoid that.  And I've also created some articles with the subdenominational parantheses e.g., Council of Twelve Apostles (Community of Christ) — I don't know if those should be consolidated into Community of Christ subheadings on Quorum of the Twelve (Mormonism) general categories?  I'll avoid making those in the future. —John Hamer

 * Yes yes I like John Hamer. He did a lot with Adam-ondi-Ahman if I recall; I meant to leave a note on his user page, but I never quite got around to it. Welcome, John Hamer. And thank you Tom for helping me say thank you to John Hamer. John Hamer, sorry about not doing that before. :) Cookiecaper 02:55, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Cookiecaper. Yes --- Adam-ondi-Ahman, Far West, Missouri and Mormon War are where I got started. :) --John Hamer 04:17, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Person surnames vs. given names in articles
I noticed in reading User:John Hamer's contributions to Martin Harris that he referred to Martin Harris throughout the article as "Martin". I mentioned that I thought that the natural course of events at Wikipedia would eventually turn those references to "Harris". But that reminds me of a comment Lavina Fielding Anderson made in her Lucy's Book when dealing with Smiths and Whitmers and Andersons. She essentially said the typical scholarly convention of referring to individuals by surname simply would not work in some instances in her analyses in Lucy's Book. So I thought I would propose that we formalize the practical necessity to use first names instead of last names in the articles that deal with families. Hence, we would sometimes find ourselves using Joseph Jr., Joseph Sr., Lucy, David (Whitmer), Peter Sr., Peter Jr., etc. as short references in some articles. I feel a little silly that I can't actually think of a need for this policy :-), but I thought I would type it out while I had itr on my mind. Tom H. 23:15, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * My first experience with Wikipedia was writing an article about Cheryl Wheeler. I used "Cheryl" throughout the article since that is what all of her fans call her.  I was told, however, that for an encyclopedia the last name should be used. wrp103 (Bill Pringle)  - Talk 00:22, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

For the reader it will make far more sense when speaking of multiple family members to refer to them by their first names in an article. If in following paragraphs we focus on a single individual then it would make more sense to refer to them initially by "David Whitmer", and then followed by Whitmer. It can be very tiring to the reader to have the whole name given througout a single paragraph. Storm Rider 00:44, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You guys are right. I only did that "Martin, Martin, Martin" thing because I started out talking about Martin and Lucy Harris and I was trying to refer to him instead of her --- but I agree that it doesn't sound appropriate. I'll switch it to "Harris". I did the same thing for my "John Whitmer" bio --- there are so many Whitmers! --- but I think I need to fix that one too. I used "Whitmer" for the bios of the other Whitmers: Peter Sr., Jacob, Christian, David. --John Hamer 00:50, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I guess it really isn't that often that we find them all in the same discussion. Maybe just in the 1820's when that was all there was to the church, the Smith's, Whitmers, Martin Harris, and Oliver Cowdery. :-D Interesting discussion anyway. Tom H. 02:22, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)

Comments within articles
These are becoming increasingly frequent and long. I've added some myself, and I think in most cases, it's bad to do that. I shouldn't have added them, sorry :(. I think we should stop using so many. It lengthens the size of the page and can slow down browsing. Most comments should be posted on the talk page; do you believe there is ever a fitting time to include comments within the article? Please say. Thanks. Cookiecaper 03:40, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I only like permanent comments if there is a repeated problem with anon edits that fly in the face of consensus work. Sometimes in-line comments can help explain to anons and new users why an article is a certain way.  Other comments should, I think, be temporary. Tom H. 05:36, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)

My Little Project: Book of Mormon Witnesses
As Tom points out, I've been working on filling out the bios for the Book of Mormon witnesses, beginning with overview articles on the Three Witnesses and the Eight Witnesses. I've expanded David Whitmer, Martin Harris, John Whitmer, Samuel Harrison Smith, Joseph Smith, Sr. and written little articles for Christian Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Jr. and Hiram Page. Still on the docket: Hyrum Smith and some additional info on Oliver Cowdery.--John Hamer 04:23, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)


text: User talk:217.42.215.146

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:217.42.215.146


text:
Tip drill

Tip drill may refer to:
 * Tip drill (basketball), a basketball exercise
 * "Tip Drill (song)", a song by Nelly that makes reference to African-American sexual slang.
 * a type of small hand drill that uses very small drill bits (most smaller than 1/16")

title: Tip drill


text:
Bimota

Bimota is an Italian manufacturer of custom and production motorcycles. It was founded in 1973 in Rimini by Valerio Bianchi, Giuseppe Morri, and Massimo Tamburini. The company name is a portmanteau derived from the first two letters of each of the three founders' surnames: Bianchi, Morri, and Tamburini.

Products
Because the state of frame design was stagnant in the 1970s, Bimota concentrated initially on building high-quality motorcycle chassis around existing engines. From the beginning they customised the top models of Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki. During the late 1970s, Bimota also helped develop and build motorcycles branded as Lamborghinis. In the 1980s they also customised Yamaha and Ducati motorcycles.

Bimota's co-founder and long-time chief designer Tamburini has been an influential player in the development of other Italian brands, most significantly his work on the popular Ducati 916, the Ducati Paso, and the MV Agusta F4; other designers such as Bimota chief Sergio Robbiano have also been involved with larger-volume manufacturers.

More recent Bimota models included the DB5, DB6, DB7, DB9 and the Tesi, with a DB8 featuring the Ducati 1198 engine. The Tesi 3D was especially unusual, which, along with the co-designed Vyrus, was the only motorcycle then in production to use hub-center steering.

Racing
Bimota first experienced international racing success in 1980 when privateer Jon Ekerold won the 350cc world championship on a Yamaha-powered Bimota. They also experienced success in the early years of the Superbike World Championship. Virginio Ferrari won the 1987 Formula TT title aboard a YB4 EI, partnering with Davide Tardozzi. Tardozzi won five races in the inaugural world superbike championship, more than any other competitor, but inconsistent results relegated him to third place in the final standings.

After many years without success, Australian rider Anthony Gobert caused a major shock in by winning a wet race at Philip Island on a Bimota SB8K. The Alstare team entered a Bimota BB3 package into World Superbikes in 2014 for riders Ayrton Badovini and Christian Iddon, however, the bike initially did not have enough units in production to pass the championship's homologation rules. As a compromise, the bikes were allowed to enter from round 2, but ineligible for points until homologation was achieved. At the end of the year, the team finished unclassified and disqualified.

Bankruptcy and rebirth
The V Due, introduced in 1997, had a design flaw with its engine. Bimota was forced to abandon the novel fuel injection system and re-engineer the entire engine. Bimota ultimately recalled the entire run of the V Due, and made an improved version, the 'Evoluzione'. Only 340 original V Dues and 21 Evoluziones were built. While this was occurring, during the 2000 World Superbike season, one of Bimota's main sponsors disappeared, owing the company a great deal of money. The combination of events forced Bimota to file for bankruptcy and close their doors.

In 2003, new owners of the marque assets, Lorenzo Ducati and Giuseppi Della Pietra, formed Alternativa Moto, with the intention to manufacture all-Italian machines using Ducati engines, and sold the V-Due rights to Win-Win.

A new group of investors purchased the rights to the Bimota name and designs and restarted the company. The investors that bought Bimota, Marco Chiancianesi who is the president and his business partner Daniele Longoni are both active Scientologists.

Recent reports paint a less optimistic picture for the future of Bimota. In 2017, the factory at Rimini had reportedly closed, with spares and incomplete bikes mothballed elsewhere, possibly in Switzerland.

In October 2019, Kawasaki Heavy Industries purchased a 49% stake in the company, and soon after announced an intention to manufacture Bimota bikes using parts from the Kawasaki supply chain.

Models

 * Racing motorcycles :
 * Bimota GB1
 * Bimota HB4
 * HDB1
 * HDB2
 * HDB3
 * Bimota SB1
 * Bimota SB8K
 * Bimota YB3
 * BIC 500 8v BM 3
 * V 90 BM 4

 * 2021 motorcycles :
 * Bimota Tesi H2
 * Bimota Tesi H2 Carbon
 * Bimota KB4
 * Bimota KB4 RC

title: Bimota


text:
User talk:Rocastelo

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Gravitodeathdeathrivercamscooper 21:16, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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Aralia
Hi Rocastelo - I moved the Galego link gl:Aralia from Aralia spinosa to Aralia - was I wrong to do so? - MPF 10:13, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification! I had assumed it would mean the genus as a whole - MPF 10:55, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Laisenia Qarase
Hi there, and welcome to Wikipedia. THANK YOU for creating the Laisenia Qarase article on the Galician Wikipedia and linking it to the English one! It's great to see a minority encyclopedia like the Galician one (although I'm sure it will soon outgrow its minority status) including articles on lesser known figures on the opposite side of the world. David Cannon 23:06, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vigo
Hi! Maybe You could add some stuff to the Vigo article, e.g., about the oil spill, about museums there, and start a list of famous people from Vigo. Kdammers 02:35, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Galicia
Recently WikiProject Galicia has been created. Perhaps you are interested in joining us to help improving Galicia articles at English Wikipedia. Also a category for. --Stoni(talk) 14:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Rocastelo, while I cannot easily write in Gallego, I can very easily read it, so I would be happy to translate the articles you mentioned on Stoni's talk page. Jim62sch 10:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Hola, comenzaré la traducción la semana que sigue Navidad -- no tengo que trabajar esa semana. ¡El artículo parece muy bueno! Me gustará traducirlo. Jim62sch 23:23, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:Rocastelo


text:
User talk:Cabhan

 ''Please post new messages to the bottom of my talk page. Please use headlines when starting new talk topics. Thank you.''

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Gravitodeathdeathrivercamscooper 21:17, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
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Disputed content Indian English
On 5 February you placed a disputed template on the Indian English page in response to a comment at the top of the article.

The comment was made by a user who had only contributed to that page to say he disagreed with the article and also made a trivial addition to a page about a record album. Otherwise judging from the talk page there seems no other dispute about the content.

I wonder if you agree that the tag should be removed?

Regards --AYArktos 07:22, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Grafton Bus Crash
I've expanded the article Grafton Bus Crash that you voted to delete. Please look again and consider changing your vote. Thanks. --ScottDavis 6 July 2005 14:14 (UTC)

Spanish Cinema: Cuplé/Culpé
Hey, in that article I've changed "Culpé" back to "Cuplé", which is the right spelling - you can find the entry for the word at www.rae.es, in the dictionary section. It's a type of short song usually associated with musical theaters and such (related to the French word "couplet").

Pedro Gómez-Esteban 16:04, 7 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Anon edit on your userpage
Granted, it could be you, but I'd like to double check. Are you aware of this edit? - Mgm|(talk) 12:08, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Marilyn Manson
Hey, since you've made some contributions to the Marilyn Manson article, maybe you'd like to get in on some hot hot Featured Article action, either just by casting a vote or by trying to help me address some of the objections that have been raised. Sound good? -- keep sleep ing   say what  04:49, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

re:Category:Wikipedians by D&D Alignment
I noticed you are categorized as a Wikipedian by alignment. If you are in to userboxes, there are now infoboxes available using a standard template. See the alignment category page for details. This is a copied announcement, please reply on My Talk Page or in the category talk if you have any questions. xaosflux Talk  / CVU  18:51, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sturmgrenadier]
hi, there is an organized campaign to save the above self-promotional vanity games-club page from deletion.... i'm wondering if you'd be willing to take a look and voice your opinion? normally i wouldnt care but (a) i hate organized campaigns from groups of users (especially when they have vested interests but dont declare them) and (b) when challenged about it, they suggested i try it myself! so here i am.... cheers! Zzzzz 20:43, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Mediation
Hello, I'm the cabal mediator. I have been reading your request, have checked to revision history of and the deleted article, and think that the first thing to be done is to assume good faith and to not bite the newcomer. I'll have a word with him and hopefully, he'll respond positively. If he doesn't, then I'll check the alternative courses of action (there are many). Either way, if there is no good reason for his section to stay under policy, then it's not staying, however much he revert wars. Izehar 09:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

satan
HS, Well Cabhan I see the LaVey fans won in the end. Thank you for all your help, Patience, and work. Sorry for any and all headaches I caused you. If wikki or yourself want any help from me you can reach me useing my site or just email me at madpoet0@rocketmail.com I did read through the history awhile ago and found Knife made the SoS article to back up other articles he posted before. I was unaware of this. I wasn't even sure if he was the person that posted the first SoS article untill after I was chewing all you guys out. Take care Cabhan and good luck with life, love and liberty. ISN 666 P.S. how bout that pope eh? you know I love him.

Do we yeally need to compare SoS with Anton's religion? Since the have nothing in common except for the name Satan I see it as just another attempt to advertise CoS.

http://www.abcnews4.com/externalwebsite.hrb?website=http://www.sosatan.org/

Thank you Cabhan, damn all I can think of to say is thank you. Again thank you. Rev. Mikey

HS, one more thing, do you realize wikkipedia renigged on our agreement. I feel like an American Indian sitting on land no one but desert animals can use after being promised good land. Biowolf considered contacting the ACLU the last war. I'm considering it now. Needless to say i'm not happy with wikkipedia. ISN Rev. Michael S. Margolin

HS Cabhan, I see FCoS got what SoS was supposed to get months ago. What's going on? ISN Mike

HS Cabhan, Biowolf wanted me to post this but I thought it best to run it by you first. As you know my over 4,000 people world wide is too many people for a bowling league. Also Stantan LaVey joined SoS last month and invited me to his wedding June 6th and yes I'm going.

The Sinagogue of Satan is a religious organization based on the concept of Satanism as described in Albert Pike's book Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry: Morals and Dogma. The doctrine of The Synagogue of Satan is not based the “popular” Satanists of our day, nor on Hollywood or Christian propaganda. The religion contains no dogma in or of itself, and encourages its followers to believe in whatever they like, as long as they do not attempt to push such beliefs on others. The aim of this religion is the ultimate destruction of religion through the advancement of individual freedom and social responsibility. The Sinagogue of Satan does not promote self-indulgence but rather self-expression balanced with social responsibility.

I hope this is acceptable. ISN Rev. Michael S. Margolin

HS, I guess things didn't go well with the admins huh cabhan? Its ok, thank you very much anyway and your article is up in Acadine. Yes I think you did a great job. Again thank you. ISN, Crazy Rev. Mikey

Hey Cabhan I love the article on Sinagogue of Satan you wrote do you think we can link it to the paragraph now? And Thank you if you see my talk page you'll see I'm very happy with your work. Rev. Michael S. Margolin

Just to warn you: user:Biowolf has just created New Page which consisted simply of Sinagogue of Satan. -- RHaworth 19:48, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Biowolf is one hell of a good guy and means no harm he is 3rd party not a member of SoS and he is an extremely active Deist minister. He just felt I was being discriminated against and yes at the begining that is what I thought as well. He made an account with you guys so feel free to talk to him on his talk page I bet you guys end up liking him alot more than me.

Totaly off Subject CABHAN we have something in common lol we are both socialists. And it runs in the family My great grandfather was the life long best friend of Lev Bronstien. O you probly know him as Leon Trosky. Again bro thank you for all your help. ISN me O and yes I liked what I saw and left you a message on my talk page. If you use yahoo add madpoet0 and you can message me if you like. Or email at madpoet0@rocketmail.com Again thanks Dude! One more difference I support peoples right to do drugs Anton is firmly against that.

Hey Cabhan! thank you, I'm sure you'll recognize your work minus all the old people beating on me lol http://baphometrex666.blogspot.com/ Again bro thank you

Hello RHaworth. I'm Biowolf. The only reason you only saw nothing more than "Sinagogue of Satan" was the admins pulled it before I could type any more. That's right, I was in the middle of typing an encyclopedic descriptino of SoS when the admins pulled it before I could save it. Talk about pride and predjudice. We've had some discussion about it since then. The trigger fingers will be a little slower in the future. Biowolf

Hi, this is Diane Vera. Thanks for your note on my user talk page. I would appreciate it very much if you could post some specific responses on the Satanism talk page to at least some of what I've said there.

Diane Vera 01:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

HS Cabhan, looks like a great article now, I see that comparison to LaVey is still surviving in the SoS paragraph no matter how many times we both took it out lol No biggy I'll edit it out in a few months after I'm sure this article is stable. On behalf of SoS and a shit load of other happy people I'd like to thank everyone that helped keep CoS from achieving thier goal. ISN158.184.149.13 18:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC) HS Cabhan, never mind it got reverted back to the Cos style LOL ISNRev. Michael S. Margolin 21:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Tell me Cabhan has it look now User:Rev._Michael_S._Margolin/Sinagogue_of_Satan

TfD
Yes, it is. There is nothing stopping people going to the subpage via the big blue link. The debates have been progressing fine, people have found them. There is no censorship. There is no problem. I am going to revert you, and anyone else who does the same. Yes, admins and editors have the right to decide what goes on the page, and admins in particular are charged with ensuring the smooth and useful proceedings of the encyclopedia and its processes. We have absolutely no need to tolerate what you describe as ridiculousness. Our processes are not suicide pacts, particularly when the process can complete perfectly fine. -Splash talk 03:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Left Hand Path Project
Don't know if you've visited the Satanism articles lately, but I've proposed a Left Hand Path Project to deal with all the Satanism articles, organize, help solve conflicts. I'm going around harrassing people trying to get support. If you're interested, do add your name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals WerewolfSatanist 20:27, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Dark Ages (computer game)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Dark Ages (computer game), has been listed by me for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Dark Ages (computer game). Thank you.

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Damien Echols of the WM3.gif)
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Fair use rationale for Image:Camino icon.png
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First Church of Satan
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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Marilyn Manson - Portrait of an American Family.jpg
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MfD nomination of User:Rev. Michael S. Margolin/Sinagogue of Satan
User:Rev. Michael S. Margolin/Sinagogue of Satan, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Rev. Michael S. Margolin/Sinagogue of Satan and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of User:Rev. Michael S. Margolin/Sinagogue of Satan during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. CalendarWatcher (talk) 02:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Nexus: The Kingdom of Winds
I am interested in discussing the video game Nexus: The Kingdom of Winds with you. Could you please inform me on how I may contact you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MuffinFlavored (talk • contribs) 06:46, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Marilyn Manson - Portrait of an American Family.jpg
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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Brothers of Metal moved to draftspace
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Concern regarding Draft:Brothers of Metal
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Proposed deletion of Emerald Rose

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title: User talk:Cabhan


text: Category:Indigenous peoples of the Caribbean


text:
Advanced glycation end-product

Advanced glycation end products (AGEs) are proteins or lipids that become glycated as a result of exposure to sugars. They are a bio-marker implicated in aging and the development, or worsening, of many degenerative diseases, such as diabetes, atherosclerosis, chronic kidney disease, and Alzheimer's disease.

Dietary sources
Animal-derived foods that are high in fat and protein are generally AGE-rich and are prone to further AGE formation during cooking. However, only low molecular weight AGEs are absorbed through diet, and vegetarians have been found to have higher concentrations of overall AGEs compared to non-vegetarians. Therefore, it is unclear whether dietary AGEs contribute to disease and aging, or whether only endogenous AGEs (those produced in the body) matter. This does not free diet from potentially negatively influencing AGE, but potentially implies that dietary AGE may deserve less attention than other aspects of diet that lead to elevated blood sugar levels and formation of AGEs.

Effects
AGEs affect nearly every type of cell and molecule in the body and are thought to be one factor in aging and some age-related chronic diseases. They are also believed to play a causative role in the vascular complications of diabetes mellitus.

AGEs arise under certain pathologic conditions, such as oxidative stress due to hyperglycemia in patients with diabetes. AGEs play a role as proinflammatory mediators in gestational diabetes as well.

In the context of cardiovascular disease, AGEs can induce crosslinking of collagen, which can cause vascular stiffening and entrapment of low-density lipoprotein particles (LDL) in the artery walls. AGEs can also cause glycation of LDL which can promote its oxidation. Oxidized LDL is one of the major factors in the development of atherosclerosis. Finally, AGEs can bind to RAGE (receptor for advanced glycation end products) and cause oxidative stress as well as activation of inflammatory pathways in vascular endothelial cells.

In other diseases
AGEs have been implicated in Alzheimer's Disease, cardiovascular disease,  and stroke. The mechanism by which AGEs induce damage is through a process called cross-linking that causes intracellular damage and apoptosis. They form photosensitizers in the crystalline lens, which has implications for cataract development. Reduced muscle function is also associated with AGEs.

Pathology
AGEs have a range of pathological effects, such as:
 * Increased vascular permeability.
 * Increased arterial stiffness
 * Inhibition of vascular dilation by interfering with nitric oxide.
 * Oxidizing LDL.
 * Binding cells—including macrophage, endothelial, and mesangial—to induce the secretion of a variety of cytokines.
 * Enhanced oxidative stress.
 * Hemoglobin-AGE levels are elevated in diabetic individuals and other AGE proteins have been shown in experimental models to accumulate with time, increasing from 5-50 fold over periods of 5–20 weeks in the retina, lens and renal cortex of diabetic rats. The inhibition of AGE formation reduced the extent of nephropathy in diabetic rats. Therefore, substances that inhibit AGE formation may limit the progression of disease and may offer new tools for therapeutic interventions in the therapy of AGE-mediated disease.
 * AGEs have specific cellular receptors; the best-characterized are those called RAGE. The activation of cellular RAGE on endothelium, mononuclear phagocytes, and lymphocytes triggers the generation of free radicals and the expression of inflammatory gene mediators. Such increases in oxidative stress lead to the activation of the transcription factor NF-κB and promote the expression of NF-κB regulated genes that have been associated with atherosclerosis.

Reactivity
Proteins are usually glycated through their lysine residues. In humans, histones in the cell nucleus are richest in lysine, and therefore form the glycated protein N(6)-Carboxymethyllysine (CML).

A receptor nicknamed RAGE, from receptor for advanced glycation end products, is found on many cells, including endothelial cells, smooth muscle, cells of the immune system from tissue such as lung, liver, and kidney. This receptor, when binding AGEs, contributes to age- and diabetes-related chronic inflammatory diseases such as atherosclerosis, asthma, arthritis, myocardial infarction, nephropathy, retinopathy, periodontitis and neuropathy. The pathogenesis of this process hypothesized to activation of the nuclear factor kappa B (NF-κB) following AGE binding. NF-κB controls several genes which are involved in inflammation. AGEs can be detected and quantified using bioanalytical and immunological methods.

Clearance
In clearance, or the rate at which a substance is removed or cleared from the body, it has been found that the cellular proteolysis of AGEs—the breakdown of proteins—produces AGE peptides and "AGE free adducts" (AGE adducts bound to single amino acids). These latter, after being released into the plasma, can be excreted in the urine.

Nevertheless, the resistance of extracellular matrix proteins to proteolysis renders their advanced glycation end products less conducive to being eliminated. While the AGE free adducts are released directly into the urine, AGE peptides are endocytosed by the epithelial cells of the proximal tubule and then degraded by the endolysosomal system to produce AGE amino acids. It is thought that these acids are then returned to the kidney's inside space, or lumen, for excretion. AGE free adducts are the major form through which AGEs are excreted in urine, with AGE-peptides occurring to a lesser extent but accumulating in the plasma of patients with chronic kidney failure.

Larger, extracellularly derived AGE proteins cannot pass through the basement membrane of the renal corpuscle and must first be degraded into AGE peptides and AGE free adducts. Peripheral macrophage as well as liver sinusoidal endothelial cells and Kupffer cells have been implicated in this process, although the real-life involvement of the liver has been disputed.

Large AGE proteins unable to enter the Bowman's capsule are capable of binding to receptors on endothelial and mesangial cells and to the mesangial matrix. Activation of RAGE induces production of a variety of cytokines, including TNFβ, which mediates an inhibition of metalloproteinase and increases production of mesangial matrix, leading to glomerulosclerosis and decreasing kidney function in patients with unusually high AGE levels.

Although the only form suitable for urinary excretion, the breakdown products of AGE—that is, peptides and free adducts—are more aggressive than the AGE proteins from which they are derived, and they can perpetuate related pathology in diabetic patients, even after hyperglycemia has been brought under control.

Some AGEs have an innate catalytic oxidative capacity, while activation of NAD(P)H oxidase through activation of RAGE and damage to mitochondrial proteins leading to mitochondrial dysfunction can also induce oxidative stress. A 2007 study found that AGEs could significantly increase expression of TGF-β1, CTGF, Fn mRNA in NRK-49F cells through enhancement of oxidative stress, and suggested that inhibition of oxidative stress might underlie the effect of ginkgo biloba extract in diabetic nephropathy. The authors suggested that antioxidant therapy might help prevent the accumulation of AGEs and induced damage. In the end, effective clearance is necessary, and those suffering AGE increases because of kidney dysfunction might require a kidney transplant.

In diabetics who have an increased production of an AGE, kidney damage reduces the subsequent urinary removal of AGEs, forming a positive feedback loop that increases the rate of damage. In a 1997 study, diabetic and healthy subjects were given a single meal of egg white (56 g protein), cooked with or without 100 g of fructose; there was a greater than 200-fold increase in AGE immunoreactivity from the meal with fructose.

Potential therapy
AGEs are the subject of ongoing research. There are three therapeutic approaches: preventing the formation of AGEs, breaking crosslinks after they are formed and preventing their negative effects.

Compounds that have been found to inhibit AGE formation in the laboratory include Vitamin C, Agmatine, benfotiamine, pyridoxamine, alpha-lipoic acid, taurine, pimagedine, aspirin,  carnosine, metformin, pioglitazone, and pentoxifylline. Activation of the TRPA-1 receptor by lipoic acid or podocarpic acid has been shown to reduce the levels of AGES by enhancing the detoxification of methylglyoxal, a major precursor of several AGEs.

Studies in rats and mice have found that natural phenols such as resveratrol and curcumin can prevent the negative effects of the AGEs.

Compounds that are thought to break some existing AGE crosslinks include Alagebrium (and related ALT-462, ALT-486, and ALT-946) and N-phenacyl thiazolium bromide. One in vitro study shows that rosmarinic acid out performs the AGE breaking potential of ALT-711.

There is, however, no agent known that can break down the most common AGE, glucosepane, which appears 10 to 1,000 times more common in human tissue than any other cross-linking AGE.

Some chemicals, on the other hand, like aminoguanidine, might limit the formation of AGEs by reacting with 3-deoxyglucosone.

title: Advanced glycation end-product


text:
User:Nafadi

Fouad M Nafadi(informally Wise) (born June 19, 1984).

title: User:Nafadi


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Autofellatio/archive1

Autofellatio
I is very hard to find neutral information about sexual acts on the internet. Porn websites dominate the search engines. This article exemplifies how wikipedia can be just for sex education purposes in an intelligent way. Gravitodeathdeathrivercamscooper 21:22, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose IMO not a FA by any stretch of the imagination. -Frazzydee|✍ 21:25, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't mean to bite newbies (assuming this nomination is made in good faith), but I think this nomination is borderline trolling, and if others agree, I propose to remove it speedily. →Raul654 21:27, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably trolling, the user has just created 40 user talk pages with welcome messages for nonexistant users. --fvw *  21:32, 2005 Feb 4 (UTC)

 * I don't believe this is trolling, and if it is speedied I will be very disappointed. While it almost surely won't become a featured article, it deserves at least due process. LizardWizard 21:35, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Your belief aside, it's clearly trolling, and if you were serious, the troll would be saddened that you've missed his rather obvious point... illustrated misinformation and jokes doesn't make a featured article. - Nunh-huh 21:38, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm interested: what in the article is misinformation? Exploding Boy 21:41, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Almost everything that isn't irrelevant or self-evident. The Egyptian mythology; the ouroboros caption (who claims it?) The worst aspect of the article is that it treats "autofellatio" as though it were practised as often as it is fantasized about (it's not) and somehow manages to miss out reporting the fact that it's so uncomfortable that those who practise it do so not primarily for their own gratification but rather for the gratification of their audience. It's a porn thing, not a favourite sex act. And the irrelevant jokes and fictional autofellators add to the "amateur" feel. - Nunh-huh 21:47, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree this may be trolling. May as well put it to the test, though: we all know I'm willing to support sex-related articles for FA, but I don't think this is one of them.  It's too short (which, in itself, isn't reason for disqualification, I know), and it's just not really that interesting.  I don't see how it could reasonably be expanded since there's really very little to say on the subject, and so it's really more like a definition.  All academic though, since there is an open poll ongoing re: one of the article's images, so it's inappropriate to nominate the article at this time.  Exploding Boy 21:38, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose. What Nun-huh said. Kosebamse 22:23, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose - Remove this nomination immediately. --mav 00:08, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose. I find it inappropriate to nominate this article while the image is up for discussion. Clearly, it's not ready for FA status yet. Mgm|(talk) 00:14, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose. To quote SNL, "not ready for prime time."  — Brim 01:54, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)


text:
User:Fvw/TalkArchive/8

RE: User:Cranberry's vote on RFA
I highly suspect that User:Cranberry is actually behind the anon masquerading here and here. If you look at the edit histories of those two IPs, they focus heavily on the same articles that Cranberry edits frequently, namely Photography of female nudes before 1923, Vintage erotica and National Organization for Reform of Marijuana Laws. The fact that Cranberry was the next to reply after the fake 172 vote is also suspicious. Also, Cranberry's regular edits often have a touch of silliness to them that suggests that he is pretty cavalier in his editing of the wikipedia (which is fine, but coupled with the possibility of real vandalism, a close eye should be kept on him). Cheers, --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 22:34, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, interesting hypothesis. Worth keeping an eye on yes, thanks. --fvw *  02:36, 2005 Feb 5 (UTC)

Protecting the talk page
The issue is that the user is uploading the same (sometimes offensive) nonsense to the talk page as much as to the main article. I'll unprotect the talk page, I just want to avoid much deletion by sysops with better things to do. -- Francs2000 | Talk 02:25, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, hold on, it's a protect-deleted page. My bad. By all means protect the talk page. I'm replacing the vprotected message with the noarticle message, to bring things in line with several other protected-deleted articles (and I think it's prettier too). Hope you don't mind. --fvw *  02:33, 2005 Feb 5 (UTC)
 * Actually that is prettier isn't it? I'll have to try and remember that for the future.  I've reprotected the talk page with the noarticle tag on it. -- Francs2000 | Talk  02:37, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

minor edits
How do you mark an edit as minor? If I see a typo or something I like to fix it but I don't know how to signify it as minor. If you could tell me I would appreciate it.
 * Only logged in users can mark edits as minor (you get a checkbox under the edit summary box). Getting an account is simple, just click the create account button, fill in your username of choice and a password and you're set. --fvw *  05:04, 2005 Feb 5 (UTC)

proxytest2
What the heck is the deal with this page? --Jeff 15:37, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * For the full story, see Wikipedia talk:Bots. The short version is I'm scanning for open proxies which I then block, to stem the anonymous proxy vandalism. I don't think I'll get all of them, but I think blocking the majority will slow down certain vandals, and also pretty much stop vandalbots like Wik's. (Actually, the blocking phase has been delayed slightly as it turns out having 1k entries in the block table hurts Wikipedia's performance. I've submitted a patch for this though, so as soon as wikipedia gets updated again I'll start blocking them.) --fvw *  18:57, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)

Comments
Hey frank, I was wondering if you would not mind looking at a massive page edit i am doing and give me some feedback. It's at Detroit, Michigan/Temp, i don't know how much you know about Detroit, being from the Netherlands and all, but just some general comments and thoughts would be nice, if you have the chance. Thanks --User:Boothy443 | comhrÚ 19:56, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, as you guessed, my ability to help on the content side of things is rather limited. Highlighting differences is tricky when using a separate temp subpage; I personally prefer making even the large sweeping changes in-place, with the inuse tag; it makes it easier to use the diff functions and keep some changes and revert others. Still, opinions differ strongly on this, so if you prefer this way of doing things, by all means keep doing so.
 * I noticed you dropped the link to the History of Detroit, Michigan article. Was this on purpose? I don't think the main article covers everything in the history article, nor am I sure it should.
 * If you feel like putting in the effort, some of the demographic data in the article might be more accessible if put in tables or graphs.
 * Colleges and universities is just a list instead of prose. Is there anything to be said about Detroit colleges and universities in general, so you can make a small introduction text followed by a short list of colleges and universities?
 * The transport section could use some fleshing out in text I think, perhaps some general blather about it being a transport hub, and what this means for the city?
 * I'm not sure I like having that list of people there. That they're from Detroit says something about those people, but not so much about the city Detroit. Unless you want to posit that Detroit produces a disproportionate number of famous people, I think just linking to People from Detroit in the See also would be enough. (Also, generally these lists are an annoyance to maintain. Everyone wants to put "their" celebrity on them, even if they're not major enough to be listed in a shortlist.)
 * Same goes for the sister cities as for the Universities really, could you say something about Detroit’s relationship and how they came to be?
 * A lot of these are matters of taste of course, so feel free to ignore any you disagree with. Nice job, and good luck! --fvw *  20:21, 2005 Feb 6 (UTC)
 * As for the separate pages, i started it in my sandbox and their are people on Wikipedia that are extremely territorial, so instead of risking constant reverts, i figure i go in with one big swoop, but get comments before i did so.
 * * As for the history, thanks i didn't even know i left that out, i did some edits a couple of days ago and must have accidentally deleted it out.
 * as for charts, i am not much on that, and I’ll let the CityProjects people take care of that if they so wish.
 * As for colleges and univs, their isn't a whole lot to be said, only major thing is that the University of Michigan was founded in Detroit, but is now located in Ann Arbor.
 * transport needs to be expanded
 * the people list thing is pared down a lot from what it was, and you right about people being born, i kinda like to keep it, but have it like no ore then 20 people and have people that when you think of said city you think of them and visa versa, then have a huge list on a separate page, almost like a teaser.
 * Thanks alot for the comments and the pointers, and I’ll review them, and see how i can improve the article. --User:Boothy443 | comhrÚ 22:08, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Deletion?
So, How is it the article Views_of_Creationists_and_mainstream_scientists_compared is not deleted? After a the vote on Votes_for_deletion/Views_of_Creationists_and_mainstream_scientists_compared is heavily in favor of it's deletion?
 * It hasn't been processed yet. Please sign your comments. --fvw *  02:26, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

Cropping vs Scaling
Oops, looks like I was lost in the lingo. You're probably right about that, sorry. And thanks. =] --Kaonashi 02:21, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Excuse me...
It appears you've accused me of vandalism twice in one evening. I was editing a page on Frederich Nitzchie (forgive my spelling) and another one on the Nazis (entitled simply Nazi) and each time, I was warned that I could be blocked. I clicked on it both times and saw your name. One "warning" occured before I arrived and one occured after.

Now, at first, I thought that when I was editing the Nitzchie page (again, forgive my spelling, it's off the top of my head) I thought it may have been because I had gotten carried away with a certain concept involving the loan translation of one of his most famous concepts. Then, I thought it was because I added "Gun Control" to a list of concepts used by the NAZI party and that it was politically motivated. Then, I looked at your discussion page and saw that you were sort-of trying to delete as many open proxys as you could or something. It's hard for me to understand.

Make no mistake. I was not vandalizing anything. Again, if it's about the Nitzchie page, I'll admit, I may have gotten carried away with the concept that his Übermench is linked to a certain fictional character, but it's still a fact and I don't see how it counts as vandalism, though I do appologize. If, however, you're simply deleting all of the Open Proxys you see, then I'm afraid you're punishing me and possibly other Wikipedia-users arbitrarily.

In the future, keep in mind that any "warning" is an accusation. Unless you cannot assume good faith, I don't think you should "warn" as randomly as you do. Thank you for your time.
 * Linking nazism to gun control is clearly not a good faith attempt at being NPOV, my accusation (and my warning) were entirely justified. If you're going to make controversial edits, discuss them on the talk page first instead and see if you can find support for them. --fvw *  05:24, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)

Very well. While according to many sources, what I put was true, I guess I'll discuss this sort-of thing in the talk page. I still do not consider your warnings as justified, as you could have simply gotten rid of them and said something on my talk page.

title: User:Fvw/TalkArchive/8


text:
The Simpsons shorts

The Simpsons shorts are a series of animated short films that aired as a recurring segment on Fox variety television series The Tracey Ullman Show for three seasons, before the characters spun off into The Simpsons, their own half-hour prime-time show. They feature Homer, Marge, Bart, Lisa, and Maggie, and a few secondary characters. The series was created by Matt Groening, who designed the Simpson family and wrote many of the shorts. The shorts first aired on April 19, 1987 starting with "Good Night". The final short to air was "TV Simpsons", originally airing on May 14, 1989. The Simpsons later debuted on December 17, 1989, as an independent series with the Christmas special "Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire".

One marketing study found that only 14 percent of Americans were familiar with the shorts, compared to 85 percent in November 1990 who were familiar with the Simpsons family, 11 months after the full-length show began airing.

Only a few of these shorts have been released on DVD. "Good Night" was included on The Simpsons Season 1 DVD. Five of these shorts were later used in the clip-show episode "The Simpsons 138th Episode Spectacular" on the half-hour show, which was released on the Season 7 DVD. These five shorts were "Good Night", which was featured in its entirety, and portions of "The Perfect Crime", "Space Patrol", "World War III", and "Bathtime". In "You Kent Always Say What You Want", the short "Family Portrait" replaces the entire opening sequence in celebration of the 400th episode. ("Family Portrait" was previously released as a pre-feature short on the 1989 CBS-Fox VHS release of the film Working Girl.) In June 2013, it was reported that FXX was trying to acquire the shorts for their Simpsons app, "Simpsons World".

The version of the Simpson family from the shorts was depicted as ghosts haunting the Simpsons house in the season twenty six episode "Treehouse of Horror XXV".

The shorts' interpretation of Homer was also briefly seen in Homer's dream in the post credits scene of the season 33 episode "Mothers and Other Strangers".

Development
When producer James L. Brooks was working on the television variety show The Tracey Ullman Show, he decided that he wanted to include short animated wraparounds before and after the commercial breaks. Having seen one of cartoonist Matt Groening's Life in Hell comic strips, Brooks asked Groening to pitch an idea for a series of animated shorts, which Groening initially intended to present as his Life in Hell series. Groening later realized that animating Life in Hell would require the rescinding of publication rights for his life's work. He therefore chose another approach while waiting in the lobby of Brooks's office for the pitch meeting, hurriedly formulating his version of a dysfunctional family that became the Simpsons. He named the characters after his own family members, substituting "Bart" for his own name. Bart was modeled after Groening's older brother, Mark, but given a different name which was chosen as an anagram of "brat". The stories were written and storyboarded by Matt Groening. The family was crudely drawn, because Groening had submitted basic sketches to the animators, assuming they would clean them up; instead, they just traced over his drawings. The animation was produced domestically at Klasky-Csupo, with Wesley Archer, David Silverman, and Bill Kopp being animators for the first season. After season one, it would be animated by Archer and Silverman thereafter. Gyorgyi Peluce was the colorist and the person who decided to make the characters yellow.

The actors who voiced the characters in the short later reprised their roles in The Simpsons series. Dan Castellaneta performed the voices of Homer Simpson, Grampa Simpson, and Krusty the Clown. Homer's voice sounds different in the shorts compared to most episodes of the half-hour show, as Castellaneta originally tried to impersonate Walter Matthau. Although he would retain this characteristic through the early episodes of the regular series, it was gradually dropped as Homer's personality evolved away from that of a stereotypical sitcom father. The producers of the show were in need of someone to do voiceovers, so rather than hire actors, they asked Castellaneta (who had already done some voice work) and Julie Kavner, both members of the Ullman Show cast, to do it. The kids still needed voices, and Nancy Cartwright, a journeyman voice actress, came in to audition. She recalled that "I was already doing voicework for eight different shows at the time and thought this would just be another job. They originally wanted me for Lisa's voice, but I thought 'Nah, I don't want to be the boring middle child, I want to be a bratty 10-year old boy.' So as soon as I gave a demonstration, [Brooks and Groening] hired me on the spot." Some time later, Yeardley Smith, a 22-year-old B-movie actress whose most notable accomplishment to date was featuring in the notorious 1986 Stephen King film Maximum Overdrive, was brought in to do Lisa's voice. The recording of the shorts was often primitive; according to Cartwright, the dialogue for the Ullman shorts was recorded on a portable tape deck in a makeshift studio, which consisted of the video engineer suite, above the bleachers on the Ullman show set. While most of the characters' personalities are similar to what they are in the series, Lisa is simply a clone of Bart and did not have a distinct personality until a few episodes into the regular series.

The shorts were featured on the first three seasons on The Tracey Ullman Show. By the fourth and last season of The Tracey Ullman Show, the first season of the half-hour show was on the air. In the two first seasons the shorts were divided into three or four parts, but in the third season they were played as a single story. Tracey Ullman later filed a lawsuit, claiming that her show was the source of The Simpsons' success and therefore should receive a share of the show's profit. Eventually the courts ruled in favor of the network.

title: The Simpsons shorts


text:
Bunchosia argentea

Bunchosia argentea, known as silver peanut butter fruit, is a species of flowering plant in the acerola family, Malpighiaceae, that is native to Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Brazil, Guyana and Suriname. It produces small orange-red fruits that are sericeous (finely haired) of pleasant taste similar to peanut butter. Leaves have pointed ends and are densely silvery or golden sericeous on the abaxial side.

Confusion with Bunchosia glandulifera
Bunchosia glandulifera is often misidentified as Bunchosia argentea. The main distinctive character is in the leaves. Furthermore, Bunchosia argentea has not been cultivated.

title: Bunchosia argentea


text:
Combat Recognition Ribbon

The Combat Recognition Ribbon was a tentative military award of the United States Army which was first proposed in the mid 1980s as an Army equivalent to the United States Navy’s Combat Action Ribbon.

The primary justification for the creation of the Combat Recognition Ribbon was that the Department of the Army recognizes combat service with the Combat Infantryman Badge; however, this decoration is closed to all but infantry personnel or special case requests from members of other Army branches, provided a special order is issued for the Combat Infantryman Badge. The Combat Recognition Ribbon was initially proposed as an award for Army personnel who had served in combat situations, but for a variety of reasons had failed to meet the criteria for the Combat Infantryman Badge.

The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2005 required that the Secretary of the Army establish the Combat Recognition Ribbon (CRR). As of February 2005, the Department of the Army began the very initial stages of developing the Combat Recognition Ribbon. The proposed ribbon was eventually renamed and reclassed as the Combat Action Badge. The Combat Action Badge creation was approved by the U.S. Army on May 2, 2005 and can be retroactively awarded to soldiers who engaged in combat after September 18, 2001.

With the creation of the Combat Action Badge, the proposal for the Combat Recognition Ribbon was dropped by the United States Army and the ribbon is now considered obsolete. The award itself was never actually officially created and a physical ribbon design was never proposed by the Institute of Heraldry.

title: Combat Recognition Ribbon


text:
Stacey Farber

Stacey Farber (born August 25, 1987 ) is a Canadian actress. She played Ellie Nash in seasons 2 through 8 of the television series Degrassi: The Next Generation. From 2010 to 2011, she starred in the CBC series 18 to Life. From 2014 to 2017, she played Sydney Katz on the Canadian medical drama Saving Hope, and since 2023 she has had a lead role on The Spencer Sisters. Stacey has also recurred on the Netflix drama series Virgin River and the CW superhero series Superman & Lois.

Early life and education
Farber was born in Toronto, Ontario, Canada to a Jewish family.

She graduated in 2005 from the all-girls private school Branksome Hall. She completed her first year of university at York University in Toronto in 2007, then transferred to The New School's Eugene Lang College in New York City, graduating in 2009.

Career
In her role as Ellie Nash on Degrassi: The Next Generation, Farber plays a troubled girl who has problems with depression and cutting, while dealing with an alcoholic mother. She started off as a recurring character in the show's second season, but was promoted to a regular role in the third season and continued until the end of season seven. For her work on Degrassi, she was nominated for Canada's top acting award, a Gemini Award, in the category 'Best Performance in a Youth Program or Series'.

In addition to playing Ellie in Degrassi, Farber also appeared in the 2001 Canadian short film Bagatelle. She played Young Kathryn in the 2002 crime film Narc, guest-starred as Lacy Sanders on an episode of the television drama Doc, and guest hosted the 2004–05 season finale of The N's Best Friend's Date. She also played Mary in the animated science fiction series Dark Oracle. She appeared as herself in Instant Star, and in 2006 had a mini-series on The N's The Click, Stacey's NYC 101. In addition to her screen work, she has appeared in various stage productions, including Love, Loss and What I Wore.

From 2010 to 2011, Farber starred in 18 to Life with Michael Seater. The CBC/CW series featured Seater marrying literal girl-next-door Farber at age 18, against both sets of parents' wishes. The pilot was actually filmed in 2008 in Montreal, with the further eleven episodes filmed in summer 2010. Critic Raju Mudhar wrote in the Toronto Star that the series had an "almost Juno-like quality". While disliking the series, he suggested the leads have "some chemistry and both are compelling, young actors to watch." The two were described as "getting along famously" in real life, having met only for the TV movie Degrassi Goes Hollywood. Farber's mother on the series was played by Angela Asher, who appeared with Farber before that in Made... The Movie. The series was nominated for a Gemini Award for best ensemble performance.

In October 2020, Farber was cast in the recurring role of Leslie Larr, described as a "hardened, world-worn dream killer", on the CW television series Superman & Lois. In December 2020, she was cast in the recurring role of Tara Anderson in the third season Netflix drama series Virgin River.

title: Stacey Farber