text:
User talk:Xeonx

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia, ! I hope you like the place and decide to keep contributing. Since I see you've already been active here, let me just give you a few links that are always useful as a handy reference guide: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question at the village pump or feel free to ask me on my Talk page. Oh, and just in case you don't already know: to sign your name on a Talk page like I did below, the easiest way is just to type four tildes (~~~~). To customize your signature, look here. And remember:Be Bold!
 * How to write a great article
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * What Wikipedia is not
 * Wikiquette
 * Wikipedia's NPOV policies
 * Current polls
 * — Asbestos | Talk 23:14, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Testing out

Non-free rationale for File:RealmForgeScreenshot.png
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:RealmForgeScreenshot.png. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC) Permission was granted and image description page was updated as requested. Xeonx (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Category:XNA game engines
Category:XNA game engines, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 10:28, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Non-free rationale for File:SDJRealmForgeIssue.png
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:SDJRealmForgeIssue.png. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under non-free content criteria, but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia is acceptable. Please go to the file description page, and edit it to include a non-free rationale.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified the non-free rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem. If you have any questions, please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 16:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

File:RealmForgeScreenshot.png listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:RealmForgeScreenshot.png, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. czar 04:55, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Xeonx


text:
Geek Stink Breath

"Geek Stink Breath" is a song by American rock band Green Day. It was released on September 25, 1995, as the lead single and fourth track from their fourth studio album, Insomniac (1995). The song, along with "Stuck with Me", appeared on the live EP Foot in Mouth that was only released in Japan. The lyrics expound the effects of methamphetamine on the human body; the word "geek" is slang for methamphetamine.

Composition
Written in 1994, "Geek Stink Breath" was played along with "Stuart and the Ave." during a soundcheck at Chicago in November 1994 (the video can be found on the video game Green Day: Rock Band) and the song debuted live on December 3, 1994, during Green Day's first performance on Saturday Night Live. The word "shit" in the line "wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled first" was left uncensored since the show's production team could not understand the lyrics to the new song (closed caption typed it as "unintelligible lyrics") and were not aware that the band had sworn on TV. The song was later recorded and released on the band's fourth studio album Insomniac (1995), and as the album's lead-off single.

The lyrics tell of the singer leading a "path of self-destruction" through the use of methamphetamine, and the effects of this drug on his body. The lyrics were inspired by Armstrong's own experiences, as well as the people around him that he saw lose control of their lives because of their addictions. Featuring a classic punk three-chord riff, the song pays homage to the band's early punk influences, including the Ramones and the Sex Pistols. The song ended up being a moderate hit.

A live version of the song recorded on the band's 21st Century Breakdown World Tour in Saitama-Shi, Japan was included on the band's 2011 live album Awesome as Fuck and its accompanying bonus DVD.

Music video
The video includes distorted, low-resolution footage of the band playing the song in a basement, intercut with graphic footage of one of the band's friends having a tooth pulled by a dentist, which was intended to only be shown during late night hours on MTV. The footage of the tooth extraction symbolizes the effect that methamphetamine can have on one's teeth, hence the line "and it's rotting out my teeth". The video was directed by Mark Kohr. An edited version of the music video is shown internationally.

Track listings
7-inch

Vinyl box set

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Geek Stink Breath


text: User talk:4.8.112.117

title: User talk:4.8.112.117


text:
Warrap, South Sudan

Warrap (واراب) is a Town in the Tonj North County of Warrap State, in the Bahr el Ghazal region of South Sudan. Before the creation of new states in 2015, it was the capital of the state of Tonj State in South Sudan. It has since been supplanted as the capital by Kuajok.

title: Warrap, South Sudan


text: Category:Lakes of Montana

title: Category:Lakes of Montana


text:
2005 Al Anbar governorate council election

The election for the governorate council of Iraq's Al Anbar Governorate were held on January 30, 2005, the same date as the Iraqi legislative election.

Election
The largely Sunni province was one of the most violent in Iraq during the Iraqi insurgency, and turnout was extremely low, with the vast bulk of Anbar's residents choosing to boycott the election out of a mixture of distrust for a system perceived to be unfair, and a fear of violence from insurgent groups. Of the total population of some 2.2 million, only 3,775 voted in the governorate council election. Some 13,000 voted in the concurrently held transitional assembly elections.

Helped by the low turnout, the Iraqi Islamic Party was able to win 70.1% of the governorate's council seats on a total of 2,692 votes.


text:
Movement in Still Life

Movement in Still Life is the third studio album by American electronica artist BT. It was released in the United Kingdom on October 8, 1999, and a different version released in the United States in 2000. A transition towards hip hop, it includes the singles "Godspeed", "Dreaming", and in the US, "Never Gonna Come Back Down". The original cover art is a photogram, Invocation, by Adam Fuss.

Background
Movement in Still Life was completely redesigned in the US for an American audience. This version has several minutes cut from each track and is presented in an unmixed manner with breaks in between songs. The tracks were also rearranged: The original closer, "Satellite", was moved to the middle and replaced by the hip hop track "Love on Haight Street", while the opening song was also moved to the centre of the record and replaced by "Madskills Mic-Chekka" and the US single "Never Gonna Come Back Down", featuring Mike Doughty of Soul Coughing on vocals. "Ride", "The Hip Hop Phenomenon", "Giving Up the Ghost" and "Namistai" were replaced with "Shame" and "Smartbomb"; the latter of which was later sampled for *NSYNC's international hit "Pop", also produced by BT. The album's Australian version uses the UK track listing, but replaces "The Hip Hop Phenomenon" with "Never Gonna Come Back Down", mixing it into its surrounding tracks with transitions.

A song called "Far From Goodbye (Later My Love)" was released in a sampler of the album in 1999, but never released officially.

There are two versions of the album on vinyl: a double LP, with a variant of the UK track listing; and a four-LP version with eight tracks, with one song per side, featuring extended mixes. Several of these extended mixes were later added to a Special Edition double-CD set from Hong Kong, which also included other extended mixes.

Singles
Movement in Still Life ties These Hopeful Machines with the most singles BT ever released from one album, largely due to the differences between the UK and US versions. Tracks like "Godspeed" and "Mercury and Solace" did well in the UK, but would not fare well on US radio, where "Never Gonna Come Back Down" and "Shame" performed well on American alternative rock stations. "Smartbomb" was used in several films, most notably in 3000 Miles to Graceland, and was used in the video game FreQuency. The Plump DJs remix of "Smartbomb" and "Hip Hop Phenomenon" were featured in the video game SSX Tricky. The Plump DJs remix also appears in Wipeout Fusion. A remix of "Never Gonna Come Back Down" was featured in FIFA Football 2002. "Ride" was originally released in 1998 as a single by 2 Phat Cunts, a group comprising BT and Sasha.

The track "Satellite" contains excerpts from the crew of NASA space shuttle mission STS-51-A during their post-mission press conference.

Personnel

 * BT – all other vocals, instruments and programming

Musicians

 * Peanut Butter Wolf – record scratching on "Movement in Still Life" and "Love on Haight Street"
 * Planet Asia – vocals on "Madskillz-Mic Chekka"
 * Hutchi – vocals on "Madskillz-Mic Chekka"
 * Rasco – vocals on "Madskillz-Mic Chekka", "Smartbomb" and "Love on Haight Street"
 * DJ Davey Dave – "cuts" and "scratching" on "Madskillz-Mic Chekka" and "Smartbomb"
 * Jan Johnston – vocals on "Mercury and Solace" and "Sunblind", backing vocals on "Dreaming"
 * DJ Rap – vocals on "Giving Up the Ghost"
 * Kirsty Hawkshaw – vocals on "Dreaming" and "Running Down the Way Up"
 * Scott Frassetto – live drums on "Satellite"
 * Richard Fortus – guitars on "Shame", "Running Down the Way Up" and "Smartbomb"
 * Mike Doughty – vocals on "Never Gonna Come Back Down"
 * Fifty Grand – vocals on "Love on Haight Street"

Production

 * Sasha – co-production on "Ride"
 * Adam Freeland – co-production on "Madskillz-Mic Chekka"
 * Kevin Beber – co-production on "Madskillz-Mic Chekka"
 * Tsunami One (Adam Freeland & Kevin Beber) – co-production on "The Hip Hop Phenomenon"
 * Paul van Dyk – co-production on "Namasté"
 * Hybrid – co-production on "Running Down the Way Up" and co-credited with "Godspeed"

title: Movement in Still Life


text:
Talk:Richard Allen Davis

Erroneous release
Davis was later erroneously released from a California prison.

This isn't documented in the chronological record. Is there more detail on this? RJFJR 23:16, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

Three strike law
His notability comes from sparking the three strike law in California. There is no history in the article on how this came about. I checked the article on three strike laws and it doesn't have the details of how California came pass the law. Is there any interesting information on how this happened or was it just public outrage over the sensational crime? RJFJR 23:27, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

As the "Three Strikes" law was the result of an initiative statute - that is, somebody collected enough voter signatures to put the measure on the ballot, and it passed - I think it's unknowable whether or not this crime "resulted" in the law. Without trying to get into any details of whether the Klaas case was part of the publicity surrounding the proposition, I think it'd be better to make a less definitive statement rather than assert cause and effect. (I don't remember any relationship between the two, but am willing to accept that there was... just not that it was cause-and-effect.) Jordan Brown 06:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I live in California, and definitely this monster is responsible inspiring 3-strikes. If we would have had 3-strike, this monster would have been put away forever back in the 1970s.

 * I've lived in California my entire life (56 years), and up until a few moments ago I also thought that California's three-strikes law was directly a result of Richard Allen Davis's murder of Polly Klaas. In fact, the idea came about two years before the Klaas murder, when the father of a different young woman was murdered and he vowed to do something about it, starting the initiative. There's no doubt in my mind that the overwhelming vote in favor of the proposition was due to the Klaas murder - her body was found in December of 1993, and the ballot initiative was passed eleven months later with a 72% 'yes' vote. But the law's actual beginnings were not with the Klaas murder. https://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_184,_the_Three_Strikes_Initiative_%281994%29 Anastrophe (talk) 06:15, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Did he die? If not, then where is he?
I just searched for him in California's inmate locator: http://inmatelocator.cdcr.ca.gov/search.aspx ...and he's not there! Maybe the search results are garnered from several databases and the one holding his record is down at the moment? CousinJohn (talk) 05:39, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

 * No, there's no evidence that he died. He's still on Death Row, biding the many years he has left before California gets around to executing some of the many ahead of him. It must be something that needs updating on their system. Doc   talk  05:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

 * So noted. Thank you for the reply. BTW, I am fairly new to Wikipedia and did not know to place new discussion at the bottom, which I will do henceforth. Still bugs me that he doesn't show up in the inmate locator. Check your weapons.  CousinJohn (talk) 17:18, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

 * That dirtbag is notorious enough that it would have received international news reports if he had died. They'll probably update it at some point, but there's no reason to believe he isn't still in San Quentin on Death Row. Cheers :> Doc   talk  21:51, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

 * My goof. The CDCR now has him listed as "Rick" (not Richard) but had I been thinking I could have just searched for his CDCR number, which is still as shown in the photo. They've got him up in San Quentin, where (FYI) all of California's male death row inmates are. CousinJohn (talk) 02:21, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

 * So, why is this man still alive? Why do they have to go one-by-one? If you have a serial murderer, rapist, burglar, etc. with overwhelmingly evidence that the person did the crimes, especially in the modern era of DNA-based forensics, what could possibly keep delaying the inevitable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.198.29.15 (talk) 08:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Not only is he still alive, he's safe from the general prison population, who generally don't take kindly to child murderers. And he can't kill himself (not that he wants to). These appeals drag on for decades. A horrible shame in a case such as this, where guilt is certain. Polly Klaas would have been a 32 year-old woman right now,   Doc   talk  08:30, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Reminder: the Talk page is for discussion of the article (e.g. how to improve it, etc.) rather than the article's topic. (But I also detest chipping in so that RD can get free rent & food for life --the incentive we offer to commit heinous crimes. Many other countries would have been done with him a long time ago.) CousinJohn (talk) 01:43, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Voris
The article records that "Friends of Voris believe Davis murdered her". Was this their belief at the time - which would carry some weight - or merely after his arrest and/or conviction for the Klaas murder - which would carry little weight?203.184.41.226 (talk) 06:02, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

discharge after 13 months' service
There is something fishy with this and it bears further research of the military service facts of his record, which should be available, if even by a FOI request. That is an unusually short and non-standard tour of military service (including basic training, leave, and travel) and occurs during the Vietnam War! Starhistory22 (talk) 06:29, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Richard Allen Davis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120830231343/http://www.katu.com/news/3632141.html to http://www.katu.com/news/3632141.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120830221050/http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/davis-death-sentence-for-klaas-murder-upheld/nKydn/ to http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/davis-death-sentence-for-klaas-murder-upheld/nKydn/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Please update.
The article appears to be current as of 2009, thirteen years ago.

I hope someone knowledgeable about the subject can provide more recent information. 2601:200:C000:1A0:3C05:884D:BEF8:9D56 (talk) 21:40, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Richard Allen Davis


text:
User:TheNover

I am 15 years old and a student of Suncoast High School in the Computer Science/Math, Science, and Engineering program. I live in Jupiter, FL.

title: User:TheNover


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Geek Stink Breath

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. dbenbenn | talk 21:16, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Geek Stink Breath
This is not an encyclopaedia article. --Neigel von Teighen 23:18, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sure it is. Rhobite 23:32, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Redirect to Insomniac (album). We don't have stubs on every single song by every single artist. Is this song notable for some other reason? — Asbestos | Talk 23:35, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * We should. Rhobite 23:37, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * No reason not to--The_stuart 21:59, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * ... for singles. As this was successful on the singles chart, it is reasonable to say it has notability separate from the album which it also featured on.  Keep. TSP 15:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * (note: fixed up a bit since nomination) Keep or merge with Insomniac (album), and it would be great to have articles on every hit single and otherwise popular song Kappa 23:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, non notable song. Megan1967 00:03, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. #16 on the British charts scrapes in IMO. Andrewa 00:08, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, the band is encyclopedic, the song is not. Wyss 00:40, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Question for delete voters: What would be wrong with merging this content with the album page? Kappa 06:54, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to album page. Nateji77 14:03, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. There is enough info here to stand alone. If not kept, should be merged with Insomnia Capitalistroadster 15:46, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * STRONG KEEP This is just as article worthy as any other song with an article. The song, while not reaching high on the charts, has become a radio standard on many "alternative" radio stations. --The_stuart 21:58, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, fits in with all the other song articles. Xezbeth  22:10, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Methinks this should go under WikiProject Albums if the song was released as a single. Or merge with the album that it was released in. --Andylkl 07:03, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. From what I understand, if the article is a substub, then it gets redirected to the album, but in this case, it's not. --Viriditas  | Talk 21:28, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:List of classical and art music traditions

Australian indigenous music
Is Australian indigenous music an art or classical tradition? -- Klein zach  02:19, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

 * I think it's obviously a form of traditional/folk music not classical/art, so I will remove this. -- Klein zach  23:34, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Griot
I don't think griots are normally considered "classical" in this context. Wikipedia's own article on griots mentions them as being part of an oral tradition, which rather strongly implies folk rather than classical. There is court music from West African that could probably be considered classical, griots may be involved in that in some ways, but the griot tradition is not a formally taught school in which performers seek to emulate past masters.

Also it's ridiculous that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on "classical music" in the general musicological sense. What's up with that? I'm sure there was at one point. I remember working on it. Apparently it has been redirected to this inaccurate, incomplete and unsourced list that contains virtually no info on anything. Way to go... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.195.84.65 (talk) 13:23, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

It is very interresting idea. Problem is, that in the western country, classical music is understood mainly, as a Western classical music. But, I disagree with those classifications. I think, that term Art music is good for every point of It. Cassa342 (talk) 22:46, 22 December 2021 (UTC) Hello again. Now I maybe understand, why Griot was removed. Althought Griots are of high class in Mandinka society, It is still traditional music (or Folk music). I know, that players of drums (for example Djembe) are part of lower class, than Griots. Maybe due to this was this genre added and also removed. I don't know, if It is true. Please, explain It to Me. Thank You again. Cassa342 (talk) 10:33, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Arabic classical music
How about adding Arabic classical music? Or any objections, if I go ahead to add it? Munfarid1 (talk) 13:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Your idea is good, but It isn't andalusian classical music? What You have thought by term Arabic classical music? Because I know only about Andalusian classical music, althought I am not sure, if Iraqi Maqam can be also classified in this category too. Cassa342 (talk) 22:49, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Why Chinese traditional music was removed
I have a question. Why You have removed Chinese traditional music from this article? Isn't It art music tradition? I just asked It, because I want to be sure. Thank You. Cassa342 (talk) 22:38, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria
@YellowJelly, I have seen the edits that you have made, and while I'm not sure I agree with all of them, I think they are acceptable. The real problem, however, rests in a point of classification. What is 'art music' and since lists on Wikipedia are not exhaustive, what should we include?

My idea was that the inclusion criteria should be: That the tradition should be consistently called art music both in the article and in sources, and that the articles concerning the music traditions should be well developed enough.

Here, for me at least, Mugham and Griot fail Criteria 1, and Phiphat/Piphat fail Criteria 2. If you have another criteria that you think would serve the reader experience better, I am open to ideas. Uness232 (talk) 19:01, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

 * Art music is difficult to define, but it can generally be seen as the music developed for the upper classes in complex civilizations, with such complex civilizations helping develop many key (but not inherent) characteristics of classical music, such as systematized knowledge (music theory), writting (sheet music), division of labor (professional performers and composers, which also paves the way for non-anonymous composers), wealth accumulation (patronage), urban, and so on, which helps differentiate those from folk music (which opposes the previous characteristics that, again, are a direct consequence of complex civilizations).
 * Given the fact that the number of classical music traditions are very limited, I don't think it would be a problem being exhaustive here, especially considering the fact that plenty of those don't even have a Wikipedia article for being merged with music from a region as a whole (like Persian Music), or are just simply not here (like Baganda Royal Music). Having the broadest consistent musical tradition would be best however (so there is no need to add Baroque Music when we already have Western Classical Music, which includes it). Though maybe this could be helped if we wrote an article about Middle Eastern Classical Music or Southeast Asian Classical Music, for example. Regardless of all this, the number of entries in this list is pretty small, I would say, and given how those traditions are all housed under a sub-category means it shouldn't be a problem for readers either (quite the opposite).
 * There is a problem with these traditions being called "art" or "classical" music consistently, as a lot of sources refer to those as "traditional" (even though that's not a well-defined term in musicology) or "folk" (because it's not "classical" as in "western classical"). The mugham example is a clear case of this misunderstanding. A clear example of this are sites such as https://www.azerbaijans.com/content_296_en.html which describe Mugham as art music but place it under the folk music category while only including western classical azeri composers under the classical music of Azerbaijan (even though it also claims Mugham is azeri classical music). This other site (https://azerbaijan.az/en/related-information/39) refers to Mugham as "folk art music", which doesn't really make sense if we use the accepted definitions of both folk and classical music. It seems like some sources use the term "folk music" to mean "people's music" and "classical music" to mean "western classical music". Because of this, we do need to be critical of some sources.
 * Let me know what you think! --YellowJelly (talk) 19:25, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I definitely see (and know, from experience, as someone who has rewritten Ottoman music) what you mean. Please do not get me wrong, I tried to follow WP criteria on the reliance of sourcing as closely as possible, so while I do believe that Mugham is art music, I was trying to strictly "systematize" (for lack of a better term) this article, and that seems to be impossible, as you pointed out quite cogently. I do not have the motivation to continue working on this article, but I'm happy to see a competent editor working on it. Thanks! Uness232 (talk) 23:15, 19 January 2022 (UTC)


text:
Talk:King of Pop (disambiguation)

Untitled
how bout a mention of Zhou, JieLun, the supposed Asia's King of Pop?--AznEffects HuangDi 1968 23:21, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)

Perhaps a subsection for regional Pop Kings such as Zhou, JieLun?-- User:w_wanderers 6:18, 2005 March 25 (UTC)

from VfD
On 11 June 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. See Votes for deletion/King of Pop for a record of the discussion.

78.19.85.41 (talk) 02:58, 24 November 2015 (UTC)== Michael Jackson ==

Surely this article should read something along the lines of "most often attributed to the late American popstar Michael Jackson" considering it's perhaps the most used and universal "honorific pop name" in today's vernacular, save for perhaps The King in reference to Elvis Presley. That way it doesn't cite MJ is the exclusive recipient of this title, but is most often who the title refers to. Mc8755 (talk) 12:59, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, by that logic, we may as well have the title 'King of Rock and Roll' also redirecting to the likes of Chuck Berry and Little Richard - after all, there are many who look upon either of them as the King of Rock and Roll. Furthermore, the reference of 'King' has also often been attributed to MJ - even in certain media reports (Online and offline) after he passed, so references of the 'King' are not that straight forward. It may be the simple fact that Elvis Presley experienced his adulthood music career approx. 23 years (Age difference) before MJ began to experience his solo adulthood career ...So, the reference to The 'King', already being used in past times, doesn't necessarily make it exclusive to that person, either, when fans and others also often use the term for another artist. It is simply a case of it first being used for a successful artist that was born 23 years before the other successful artist.

 * Mc8755, after seeing this edit by Britannic124 at the Michael Jackson article, I am reminded that the King of Pop page should redirect to the Michael Jackson article; it should redirect there per WP:PRIMARY TOPIC. In cases like this, however, it is good to call on disambiguation expert BD2412 via WP:Echo. Flyer22 (talk) 22:47, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree, King of Pop should definitely redirect to Michael Jackson. I was expecting that to happen when I searched “King of Pop”. 〜Britannic124 (talk) 23:34, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Terrible page! Once you mention that there were some others who were supposedly referred to by that title, one SHOULD leave LINKS to sources. Isn't that the way wiki works!?! You can't just state something (Others were also, bla, bla, bla) without seeking sources for your claim.

Requested move 9 February 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: general consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:46, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

King of Pop → King of Pop (disambiguation) – Redirect this to Michael Jackson per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. — Za  wl  09:25, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Per nom.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:10, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose, per Andy Warhol, the Real King of Pop In ictu oculi (talk) 11:32, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * "King of Pop" is not mentioned anywhere in Andy Warhol. In addition, "pop" in common parlance means the music, not pop art.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 13:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Is there any evidence that Warhol was ever known as the king of pop because if not it would not be a valid reason to oppose?--72.0.200.133 (talk) 16:44, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It is a real book title, but was a slightly facetious comment, sorry. I just don't see the point of adding King of Pop redirects here, for other subject see King of Pop (disambiguation) to the top of the scary guy's article. The King of Pop is clearly not an encyclopaedic term if anyone puts it in they are just as likely looking for the album or curious about the term. Also King of Pop award, Johnny Farnham and all those people. Leave what is clearly a dab page in the position a dab should be. No one is going to look for Michael Jackson other than by searching "Michael Jackson". It smacks of fan worship to have to direct this generic term to him. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:47, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The sources state that he was "dubbed the King of Pop" and that's all that matters, not your personal opinion on whether or not he deserves such a title. Besides, if you truly believe it's a totally unencyclopedic term then you should also believe that King of Pop (album) should be moved to that namespace instead, since in that case there is no reason for there to be a disambiguation page.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:36, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No, if anything I believe the King of Pop award would be a better candidate than a Michael Jackson compilation album. The point is this is a dab page about a term. A term. This is not a performing name of Michael Jackson. No one is going to look for Michael Jackson other than by searching "Michael Jackson", correct? So if someone searches "King of Pop" they are looking for the term "King of Pop" not the Michael Jackson article. To get sent straight to Michael Jackson then means, oh flip, so how do I find "King of Pop"? By the hat note on the Michael Jackson article which I have just been made to download but I didn't want. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Support. I'm replacing a snarky oppose based on lack of rationale provided with this support !vote. The results for a Google search for king of pop is dominated by MJ. So clearly the primary topic I suppose no rationale is justified. --В²C ☎ 23:15, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. 17 mentions at Michael Jackson, and now that he is deceased, the epithet is locked in. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:55, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Support – see People's Princess as an example. MJ is definitely the primary topic for this title per historical sources used on Google.  CookieMonster755 ✉  17:59, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

 * I have no doubt that Jackson is the undisputed King of Pop but is there evidence that users searching using that term are looking for the Michael Jackson article? Wouldn't they just type "Michael Jackson"?  Someone actually using "King of Pop" as a search term might be after info in honorific nicknames in popular music instead.  This could be tested by WP:DABTEST but would require patience.  —  AjaxSmack  17:43, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:King of Pop (disambiguation)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yahf

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 18:29, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

Yahf
WPIN a web guide. Wolfman 23:21, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. Mikkalai 23:28, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No evidence of notability. This would once have been a speedy, but we seem to interpret the rules a bit more strictly these days. Andrewa 00:04, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, it could be a speedy, it's a platform for a link. Wyss 00:44, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yahf


text:
Star Wars: Empire at War

Star Wars: Empire at War is a 2006 real-time strategy video game developed by Petroglyph Games and published by LucasArts for Microsoft Windows and Mac OS X. Set between Episode III and Episode IV, it focuses on the fledgling struggle between the Empire and the Rebels. It uses Petroglyph's game engine Alamo. In October 2006, an expansion titled Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption was released.

An active modding community exists for the game, and Petroglyph has provided updates for several years after its release.

Gameplay

There are three game modes: storyline-based Campaign, Galactic Conquest and Skirmish. Battles can take place on a planet (land battle) or above the planet (space battle). Land battles are fought with infantry and ground vehicle units, while space battles are fought with starfighter squadrons and large spacecraft.

Galactic Conquest is the sandbox campaign, in which the player controls either the Rebel Alliance or the Empire. A weaker, neutral faction of Pirates exists, but makes no attempt to battle the Rebels or Empire unless attacked. Each faction has at least one of three broad objectives for Galactic Conquest, which vary depending on which scenario is being played: kill the enemy leader (Mon Mothma or Emperor Palpatine), protect or destroy the Death Star, or completely remove the other faction from the campaign map. Grand strategy, production, and resource management are facilitated through a three-dimensional galactic map. The player receives funds from planets they control and from mining facilities. Credits are used to research technology, build defenses and vehicles, and train troops. Each planet confers different advantages to its owner, even though some bonuses are specific to each faction (for example, controlling Kuat reduces the price of Imperial Star Destroyers by 25 percent).

When enemy forces meet (either fleets in space or ground forces landing an enemy planet) a battle ensues. The player(s) can use only the equipment they brought to the battle (be it an X-wing squadron or an AT-AT). Factions must battle across both space and land maps. The defender may also use any buildings (land) or their space station (space) if they have constructed them. In each battle, each side may only have a certain number of units on the field at a time; the rest are retained as Reinforcements, which can be called in any time to designated areas when allowed. In land battles, a player can field more units at a time if they capture Reinforcement Points.

The storyline campaign follows a semi-open linear path, where the given side must complete sequential mission objectives (such as stealing X-wing prototypes). Campaign missions build up to the plot of Star Wars and eventually, the Battle of Yavin. The campaign is very similar to Galactic Conquest, although the Galactic Map is gradually opened for play as the player completes scripted events and completes missions. While the Rebels steal most of the tech using the Droid Duo, the Empire advances in technology level by completing certain missions.

Skirmish mode is the familiar, classic RTS mode. Skirmishes come in two types: land and space. In land skirmishes, all players start with bases and must research upgrades and capture reinforcement points while fighting to destroy the enemy's base or command center. In space skirmish mode, all players have a space station that can be upgraded. The player buys land or space units to attack the enemy with until the enemy base/space station is destroyed or the enemy forces are destroyed. The player can advance in technology levels to access more powerful ships as the player gains more money. The player can build more buildings and defenses, and the space station can also be upgraded to better defend itself without requiring the player to leave ships behind to defend it. Skirmish battles require the least time investment, so it is better suited toward casual players. Maps can support two, three, or four players, and the difficulty can be switched between easy, medium or hard.

All modes are played in real time. Days on the galactic map pass continually. When a battle occurs, galactic time is paused while the battle is waged. After the battle, the galactic day timer resumes. When playing against the computer, the player can accelerate time or pause time on both the galactic and skirmish maps.

All modes also make use of important Star Wars characters, such as Darth Vader, as Heroes. Each Hero is a single, moderately powerful unit with special abilities. For example, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Emperor Palpatine, and Darth Vader can use the Force. Some characters can be used in both land and space battles, (e.g. Darth Vader becomes a special TIE fighter unit in space), while others can be used only on land or only in space (a land-only Hero will remain on board a landing craft or command ship during space battles and have no use of their special abilities).

Plot
The game's plot is that of the Galactic Civil War and the construction of the Death Star. It occurs during the events leading up to A New Hope.

In the Rebel campaign, the fledgling Rebel Alliance begin with an attack on the shipyards at Kuat introducing the player to basic space combat before infiltrating the planet of Wayland on a basic ground combat mission. The campaign explores how the X-wing fighter is pressed into the service of the Rebel Alliance, the liberation of Kashyyyk, the first whisperings of a brand new Imperial superweapon and ultimately the Battle of Yavin.

The Imperial campaign features Darth Vader and his search for the fledgling Rebel Alliance, interspersed with missions to help complete construction of the Death Star. It then transpires that the plans for the Death Star have been stolen so the player has to seek out the traitor who has passed the plans to the Rebels, intercept Princess Leia and then use the Death Star to crush the Alliance once and for all.

Development
Star Wars: Empire at War was first mentioned in 2004, by then-president of LucasArts Jim Ward. He discussed the possibility of a RTS video game set in the Star Wars universe, stating "...there's a bright future there for games based on these new properties as well as original Star Wars games like a new real-time strategy PC game that Petroglyph is developing for next year". Ward described the game as taking the real-time strategy genre in a new direction and outlined plans to balance the gameplay between hardcore games and audiences familiar with the Star Wars franchise. The game was unveiled by LucasArts on January 21, 2005 with an original release date set for the end of 2005. LucasArts said that the newly formed Petroglyph Games would be developing an original 3-D game engine, titled Alamo, for Star Wars: Empire at War and that the game would support online battles for up to eight players.

Lead designer Joe Bostic outlined the gameplay for Star Wars: Empire at War, stating the developer's priorities were for players to have easy control of ships during space combat because of difficulties with the structure of the space aspect of the game. He said that the scaling of the various units in the game was another difficulty that the developers had to overcome to balance the gameplay. In 2006, Chris Rubyor, a former employee of Westwood Studios, discussed the galactic conquest mode of the game, stating that the initial mode had to be overhauled several times because Petroglyph was unhappy with the original mode. Rubyor said the game's skirmish mode incorporated a variety of new and traditional strategy mechanics found throughout RTS genre. He also said the game's focus was primarily combat and unit tactics, while allowing units and new technologies to be purchased during skirmish combat, a feature that was not put in the main single-player campaign or galactic conquest. The game's musical score was composed by Frank Klepacki. Klepacki said surround sound was an important aspect for the game because he said he believed many past RTS games did not take advantage of the features of surround sound. The game's audio took elements from the Star Wars films, as well as adding new elements to add variety to the game. Much of the sound effects were created by Klepacki, including all sounds in the interface and structure.

A stage demo and trailer were on display at E3 2005. On July 15, 2005 LucasArts released a new trailer and announced a release date of February 7, 2006. A playable build of Star Wars: Empire at War was well received at the 2005 Games Convention in Leipzig, Germany.

The official demo of Star Wars: Empire at War was available for download on January 18, 2006, for Microsoft Windows systems. It featured five introduction tutorials to the game, and one galactic conquest mission with the player assuming the role of the Rebel Alliance. The full Windows version was released on February 16. On November 3, 2006, Aspyr Media Inc. announced Empire at War would be coming to the Mac OS X platform in April 2007. The Mac demo was released in March 2007.

Post-release
On May 31, 2014, online functionality, including network multiplayer and wireless chat, was discontinued after Glu Mobile's purchase of GameSpy and the subsequent shutdown of all game servers. In 2017, multiplayer was re-enabled on the Steam version with Workshop support added.

Petroglyph has continued to support Star Wars: Empire at War for several years after its release. In 2017, Petroglyph released an update that added support for windowed mode and removed its dependency on GameSpy for multiplayer, among other changes. A 2021 update prevented the planet Coruscant from crashing the game, while a 2022 update added several multiplayer maps. In November 2023, Petroglyph issued a patch that converted both Empire at War and Forces of Corruption to 64-bit applications, which it said was done to "solve many out-of-memory bugs and crashes that players were experiencing", as well as several bug fixes.

An active modding community exists for the game. One such mod for Forces of Corruption, "Thrawn's Revenge", allows the player to play as Grand Admiral Thrawn to fight the New Republic.

Reception
Star Wars: Empire at War received a "Silver" sales award from the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association (ELSPA), indicating sales of at least 100,000 copies in the United Kingdom.

Star Wars: Empire at War received "generally favorable reviews" according to the review aggregation website Metacritic. GameSpot said, "Empire at War delivers a true Star Wars experience". IGN said, "Star Wars: Empire at War definitely scores big in terms of style.... If you're hoping to enjoy this game because you really like Star Wars, you'll probably be satisfied for quite a while, but if your interest in the Star Wars property takes a back seat to your desire for a solid strategy experience, the few innovations aren't going to be enough to overcome the repetitive nature of the fights."

The A.V. Club gave it a B and stated that "you could find a deeper or better-tuned strategy game—but this one has AT-ATs." Detroit Free Press gave it three stars out of four, saying, "The day-to-day ground conflicts that make up most of the game are not particularly inspiring. The full-on space wars are a real thrill to behold." However, The Sydney Morning Herald gave it three stars out of five and said that it "hits all the right notes if you're a Star Wars fan, but be prepared to grind out your victories."

The editors of Computer Games Magazine named Empire at War the tenth-best computer game of 2006, and called it "one of the most inventive games in years". The Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences nominated Empire at War for "Strategy Game of the Year" at the 10th Annual Interactive Achievement Awards.

title: Star Wars: Empire at War


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stranger in Us All

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was listed on WP:CP. Joyous 18:27, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

Stranger in Us All
I haven't the faintest clue what this article is on about. Possible some of it could be salvaged and merged into Ritchie Blackmore, but I have no idea what. — Asbestos | Talk 23:22, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I have CSD'ed. It's unacceptable. --Neigel von Teighen 23:25, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete, trivial, article does not establish notability. Megan1967 23:46, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup. Any album by Blackmore is notable. Andrewa 00:02, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete the tale of ranting geezers. Wyss 00:43, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The formatting on this is definitely not wikipedia (I'm not sure it's worth trying ot fix). A lot of it is opinion, making this an essay.  I'd say merge to Ritchie Blackmore (which could use the addition) if anyone is willing to do the work of reading this article. RJFJR 01:34, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Always ... always ... always check for copyright infringement first, before listing on VFD, especially if the article has at the bottom a hyperlink to the web site where the original article was published, as this one did. Listed at WP:CP. Uncle G 08:23, 2005 Feb 14 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding that. To be fair, I had assumed copyright, but copying-and-pasting the text into Google still finds nothing. The epinions text must not be searched, or something. The link at the bottom of the page wasn't the page the review is directly from either. Anyway, should have looked harder. — Asbestos | Talk 17:55, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
The Hand That Feeds

"The Hand That Feeds" is a song by American industrial rock band Nine Inch Nails, released as the lead single from their fourth studio album, With Teeth (2005).

The single is the highest-charting Nine Inch Nails song on all charts except for Billboard Modern Rock Tracks, where it stayed at number one for five weeks (the following single "Only" stayed at number one for seven non-consecutive weeks), and the Billboard Hot 100, where it peaked at number 31. It is the band's only single to reach the top 10 of the UK Singles Chart, as well as their highest-charting single on the U.S. Mainstream Rock Tracks chart, peaking at number two. It was also a crossover hit, crossing over to pop radio as their first top 40 radio hit since "Closer" in 1994 and "Hurt" in 1995, peaking at number 31 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart.

History
Though several radio stations played a leaked copy of the song in February 2005, official radio play began the following month on March 14. The song was released for sale on both iTunes and Napster on March 22. In April, a link to a multi-track GarageBand file of the song was posted on the band's website, allowing anyone with GarageBand to remix it.

The single for "The Hand That Feeds" was only given a wide release in Europe. The European releases include a 3-track limited edition CD, a 2-track standard CD, a 9-inch vinyl and a DVD single. In the United States, "The Hand That Feeds" was released on various vinyl formats. A limited edition 10-inch picture disc and a 7-inch promotional disc (the latter available at With Teeth listening parties) contained the title track and the b-side "Home." Additional 12-inch remix records, containing mixes by Photek and DFA were also available.

The band was due to play the song at the 2005 MTV Movie Awards, but dropped out due to conflicts between Reznor and MTV concerning his plan to incorporate an image of then-incumbent U.S. President George W. Bush into the performance. An announcement made by Reznor through the band's website on May 26 stated, "Nine Inch Nails will not be performing at the MTV Movie Awards as previously announced. We were set to perform 'The Hand That Feeds' with an unmolested, straightforward image of George W. Bush as the backdrop. Apparently, the image of our president is as offensive to MTV as it is to me. See you on tour this fall when we return to play in America."

The following day, MTV stated, "While we respect Nine Inch Nails' point of view, we were uncomfortable with their performance being built around a partisan political statement. When we discussed our discomfort with the band, their choice was to unfortunately pull out of the Movie Awards." The band was eventually replaced by Foo Fighters at the ceremony. During a performance of "The Hand That Feeds" in Jacksonville, Florida, on October 29, 2008, a photo of Bush was displayed behind the band; as the band played, the photo gradually morphed into John McCain, the Republican candidate for the 2008 U.S. presidential election.

The song was nominated for Best Hard Rock Performance for the 48th Annual Grammy Awards in 2006. It is included in the videogames Rock Band, Midnight Club 3, Guitar Hero: Warriors of Rock, Fortnite and Rock Band 4. The song also appears in the trailer for the film Red Riding Hood and in the TV spots for Underworld: Evolution and Running Scared.

In 2009, the song ranked at number 406 in Pitchfork's list of the top 500 songs of the 2000s.

Music video
The music video for the song was directed by Reznor and Rob Sheridan and debuted on the Nine Inch Nails website. The video features Reznor alongside the band he assembled for live performances at the time (Aaron North, Jeordie White, Jerome Dillon, and Alessandro Cortini) performing the song. The video uses the pan and scan technique, resulting in video distortion such as pixelization and interlacing. During the final chorus, the band members become more distorted by additional interlacing. A second video for the song was directed by Ian Inaba, but was shelved.

Releases

 * Island Records CID888 - CD
 * Island Records CIDV888 - DVD
 * Island Records 9IS888 - 9-inch vinyl
 * Interscope Records HALO_18 V2 - 10-inch picture disc (limited edition)
 * Interscope Records INTR-11401-7 - 7-inch vinyl (promo)
 * Interscope Records B0005127-11 - 12-inch vinyl, Photek remixes
 * Interscope Records B0005129-11 - 12-inch vinyl, DFA remixes

title: The Hand That Feeds


text: Category:Lists of British MPs

title: Category:Lists of British MPs


text:
Talk:Nimrod Castle

Found Image
Have procurred an image/permission wading thru the wikimania to do my first wiki image post (please standby). Schlüggell 00:13, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

nice one

Golan Heights in Israel
Nimrod castle in the Golan Heights, Israel is maintained by the Israel Park Authority.

Nimrod Castle is maintained by the Israel parks Authority which is definitely not Syria.

Map depiction
Currently, the Golan Heights is under Israeli control, and since 1981 has been under Israeli civilian control. It has been under Israeli sovereignty for 44 years (1967-2011) while it has been under Syrian control for only 21 years (1946-1967). The current Syrian map depiction is misleading, violates NPOV and has been a source of contention for some time. Initially, I was going to reinsert the Israeli map depiction but realized that others might not be pleased with that for same reasons that I set forth here (just in the reverse). On Commons, they came to somewhat of a decent compromise that merely states the location's geo-coordinates leaving the political element out. I wasn't happy with that but that's the nature of compromise, where no one is ecstatic with the outcome but we can live with it because the alternative means endless bickering. Therefore, the location will be associated with neutral, non-political geo-coordinates. I hope that this satisfies all concerned and welcome any other suggestions.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 04:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, the map shows the location as being in the Golan, which is recognized by nearly the entire world as being in Syria. I am reinserting a map and ask that you get consensus for such edits.  nableezy  - 13:18, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The current map depiction has strong POV overtones and is a digitally altered and skewed map that reflects partisan opinions. The Golan Heights have been under Israeli civilian control for 44.5 years. They have been under Syrian control for only 21. I have compiled a number of maps from reliable sources (including National Geographic and United Press International) showing the Golan as belonging to neither Israel nor Syria. Please note the UPI map. The Golan remains under defacto Israeli control and it’s disputed status should be reflected on corresponding maps. Moreover, Nimrod's Fort is a tourist attraction and as such it's status should at the very least be shown to be within the area of the controlling sovereign so that the reader who wishes to visit the subject area knows where he/she is going. Accordingly, I have replaced the existing non-neutral, digitally altered, partisan map with a more neutral depiction.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 02:43, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you not get tired of playing these games? There are countless scholarly sources that make the status of the Golan clear. Finding some news stories about the Golan does not trump that, and is a blatantly obvious attempt to distort the content of an encyclopedia article to conform to some fantasy world where whatever Israel says goes. Sorry, but this is still an encyclopedia and the scholarly sources that show the international consensus that the Golan is Syrian territory occupied by Israel is not trumped by a selection of news stories.  nableezy  - 15:26, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * User:Nableezy, we know this is difficult for you but you must endeavor to comment on edits and not accuse editors of editing in bad faith – "playing games," as you say here. That the Golan Heights are internationally considered Syrian territory occupied by Israel isn't the same as simplistically saying that the Golan is in Syria. It's this difference that makes the map depicting the Golan as part of Syria a POV representation. There's no consensus that it's in Syria any more than there's consensus that it's in Israel. If anything, there're more sources that call the 1974 line the border between Israel and Syria, and this was established at Talk:Golan Heights as I'm sure you remember. Wikipedia isn't allowed to take sides in international disputes. The Golan Heights are internationally considered Syrian territory occupied by Israel and shouldn't be represented as a territory under Syrian control.—Biosketch (talk) 15:45, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

As I have explained numerous times, the digitally manipulated and altered map that you designed and uploaded bears no relation to reality and is contradicted by the numerous map depictions that I’ve provided. The area is under Israeli control and has been under Israeli control for nearly 45 years. That is more than double the time it was under Syrian control. To present a map that shows it under Syrian control is not only misleading but dishonest. Moreover, the subject area is a tourist attraction and a reader who takes a cursory look at the map may be led (falsely) to believe that the area is under Syrian control. As I’ve demonstrated, most maps show the area as shaded, belonging to neither thus underlying its disputed status. Please also have a look at these additional interactive maps. Other editors who have commented here have voiced support for my WP:NPOV edits. However, if you wish I will note the WP:POV template to placate your concerns until the issues can be vetted and hopefully some form of compromise can be reached in a collegial manner. I also caution you from engaging in personal attacks against me. Calling me "expansionist" and part of the “Hasbara” team as you did here is offensive, gratuitous and I ask that you strike it. We are all volunteers here who spend time editing articles so that others may benefit. Engaging in personal attacks against me or others who don’t share your opinions is not helpful to the project.--Jiujitsuguy (talk) 17:06, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * How interesting. Using a map that shows Syrian territory as being in Israel is not digitally manipulated and altered. Ive had more than I can deal with of this latest POV push, so I have taken the issue to Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard.  nableezy  - 17:18, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

History
History of Nimrod Fortress is wrong. It was built by the crusaders after 1129 and fell to Nur ed-Din in 1164. Pkachyna (talk) 17:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

 * That theory was apparently discarded. You need to give a source. Zerotalk 00:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

 * The sources: 'The Hutchinson Dictionary of Ancient & Medieval Warfare','R. C. Smail - Crusading Warfare, 1097-1193', as Subeibe castle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pkachyna (talk • contribs) 21:50, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

 * It isn't a very good source. Modern sources by experts who specialise in crusader and Islamic architecture disagree.  Eg.  Pringle, Secular buildings in the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, p2; Petersen, Dictionary of Islamic Architecture, p26; Ellenblum, Crusader Castles and Modern Histories, many pages.  Archaeologist Murphy-O'Connor writes in Oxford Archaeological Guide to the Holy Land "The might and majesty of the fortress at one time inspired prejudice to consider it Crusader. In fact, it was thrown up in haste by al-Aziz Uthman, a nephew of Saladin, in 1228–30.".  Zerotalk 22:53, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

 * The Hebrew page quotes an news article from 2018 which itself refers to Differential earthquake footprints on the masonry styles at Qal’at al-Subayba (Nimrod fortress) support the theory of its ancient origin and says this research supports the thesis of construction in the "Latin era". Jolastar (talk) 15:22, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

the area is not disputed territory. it is within the borders of the country of israel and in no way is part of syria. i went there recently and used an israeli visa to get there not a syrian one. it is inaccurate and biased to say that the international community believes it is part of syria. Ydrrbaum (talk) 11:13, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

The is an issue with the history: the castle cannot have been built in 1228 by the Al-Aziz Uthman who was Salah ad-Din's son (Al-Malik al-Aziz Uthman ibn Salah ad-Din Yusuf) because the latter died in 1198. It could be the right name with wrong link - twice - though. According to the Hebrew page the castle was built by the ruler of Banias, Al-Aziz Uthman, probably with funding from Al-Malik Al-Mu'azzam Isa, ruler of Damascus. In the Hebrew flyer distributed by the Israeli Parks Authority, the builder is also given as Al-Aziz Uthman, described as a "nephew of Salah ad-Din", "younger brother of Al-Mu'azzam" starting in 1227. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jolastar (talk • contribs) 15:15, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

 * The book "Caesarea Philippi" by John Wilson (p151) says it was built by El-Malik Al-Aziz Uthman who died in 1233. He was the third son of al-Adid, brother of Saladin. On p133, Wilson says that the attribution of the Fortress to the Crusaders is due to the misreading of an ancient manuscript. Zerotalk 09:39, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Muslim castle?
How can a castle be muslim? Did the castle come alive and decide to follow islam? The castle was not built by people who follow the muslim sect. islam was founded long after this castle was built and this castle was built long after Judaism started. Calling it a "muslim castle" is not neutral and is antisemitic.
 * Or, to put it another way, "ignorance is bliss". Zerotalk 05:49, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

location
the nimrod castle is in israeli territory not syrian. i dont know who this ' international community ' is, but that statement is inaccurate and possibly antisemetic Ydrrbaum (talk) 11:15, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Wrong dates?
How can it be built by Al Azziz Uthman between 1229 and 1290..? If AL azziz Uthman died many years before 1229 according to Al Azziz Uthman's wiki page? Sandro Jadon (talk) 13:06, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

2018 study contradict it was first built in 12th-13th cenury!!!
"Displacements and shocks that caused earthquakes in the Nimrod Fortress (Nimrod's Celt) in the Golan, indicate that the fort was built in the Hellenistic period (up to 30 AD) or the Byzantine period (4th to 7th century AD) and not in the Ayyubid period (12th and 13th century), As other researchers believe."

"From the findings, Dr. Margalit concluded that Nimrod Fortress was damaged during its existence by two powerful earthquakes: the first, in 749 AD that hit the massive configuration and the second in 1209 AD that hit the Crusader configuration. The Ayyubid and Mamluk constructions were not damaged as they did not exist at the time of the second earthquake. From this Dr. Margalit concluded that the construction of the fortress could not be attributed to the Ayyubids and therefore determined that the fortress was built in the Hellenistic or Byzantine period and later used by the Crusaders and renovated by the Ayyubid"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328956082_Differential_earthquake_footprints_on_the_masonry_styles_at_Qal%27at_al-Subayba_Nimrod_fortress_support_the_theory_of_its_ancient_origin

Please correct the outdated information,--Vanlister (talk) 17:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks for bringing this very interesting source, which definitely needs inclusion. I'm reading it now. Zerotalk 03:44, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello,can you add in the introduction that it was first built before the middle-age according to archeological findings.

Also the state of research since 1970, from the introduction from Margalit work " Ronnie Ellenblum, in his manuscript “Who Built Qal’at al-Subayba?” proposed that the fortress was established in the post-Crusader era between A.D 1220 and 1230 by the Ayyubic ruler of Banias, Al-Malik Al-Aziz ‘Uthman [3]. The Ayyubic theory gained wide popularity and is currently accepted by most scholars [6,7,8,9]. However, it is based on an interpretation of historical texts, rather than on firsthand observations or archaeological findings [7]. In addition, the theory does not explain why and how a local ruler constructed such an impressive fortress in a time of war, far from the front, when the necessary resources and professional human workforce were scarce."

https://heritagesciencejournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40494-018-0227-9

--Vanlister (talk) 23:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC) I'll add the non controversial ref.--Vanlister (talk) 11:46, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Old refs
I am pasting here a couple of 19th C refs that didn't fit on the article on Banias.

 * B. B. Edwards and E A Park (1846) Bibliotheca Sacra and Theological Review Allen, Morrill, and Wardwell, p. 193.

 * Robinson and Smith, 1841, vol 3, p. 347 ff, p. 358

trespassers william (talk) 18:19, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

acceSSed
Please correct: "accesed" to "accessed". 80.180.159.222 (talk) 19:01, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Zerotalk 04:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nimrod Castle


text: Category:2005 songs

title: Category:2005 songs


text:
Talk:Lord Brocktree

Untitled
The Long Patrol didn't exsist in Lord Brocktree- at the end of the book they created it. Can somebody fix this? -Maia

"Legend of Luke" also partially takes place before Martin the Warrior's birth. User:Thorton

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

move. -- Kjkolb 09:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Lord Brocktree (novel) → Lord Brocktree … Rationale: Lord Brocktree is a book in the Redwall series. Lord Brocktree is also a fictional character in the book of the same name.  Currently, the book is located at Lord Brocktree (novel) and the fictional character is at Lord Brocktree.  Per Wikipedia naming conventions, the book should be under the article title Lord Brocktree, while I propose that the character be moved to Lord Brocktree (Redwall). … Please share your opinion at Talk:Lord Brocktree (novel). —Runch 19:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~

Support 220.233.176.162 (talk) 05:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lord Brocktree. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050818163904/http://www.redwall.org/dave/brocktree.html to http://www.redwall.org/dave/brocktree.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 04:11, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lord Brocktree


text: Portal:Canada/Opentask

title: Portal:Canada/Opentask