text:
Talk:Michael Jackson/Archive 1

Intro
'sai varshan' (1958- ) is the most successful pop singer of all time...''

Thriller, released in 1982, became the greatest album of all time.

Later he went on a tour to promote his new album called 'Bad'(the second highest-selling album) and it became the greatest tour ever...

Sorry Nazii, but I'm afraid your additions are veering this article away from the neutral point of view that we try to maintain around here. --Stephen Gilbert

The article says that Jackson is the most selling artist of all times. Thats wrong. The article is even linking to the "documentation" that proves that Elvis Presley has sold a lot more. And thats a Wikipedia article to... Jackson fans must try to be objective. Jackson has sold about 750 mill, while Elvis has sold about 1,5 billion. According to RIAA numbers, Elvis has sold 1 billion, but they have said they have not counted all the early sales. If the RIAA numbers were correct, then a country artist would have topped the list of most selling artist.

MJ Richest pop guy ever?

He owns half the beatle stuff the guy even owns the rights to happy birthday. I very much doubt he is any where near bankrupt and is probarly circulating these rumours himself so fans buy his albums out of pity. That said he is one of the greatest musicians of all time and recent events have been weird and upseting for fans and non-fans. Hopefully he is innocent.

A New Question
Why hasn't anybody mentioned Michael Jackson's video game "Moonwalker" (click) for the Sega Genesis? I would think that's something worth mentioning. Not even Bill Gates has his own game. (Or so I presume. Perhaps Linux Penguins destroyed it..)

Material by H7asan
I've reverted H7asan's last edit, on the grounds that it completely replaced what was already there, thus removing a huge amount of information from the article. The new information that H7asan has provided will need to be worked into the article somehow, so I have copied and pasted the full text below. -- Oliver P. 17:31 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

 * Michael Jackson is one of the most successful popular music singers of all time. He is also known as the "King of Pop" or the “King of Videos” (as in Music videos).

 * Michael Joseph Jackson was born on August 29, 1958 in Gary, Indiana to Joseph and Katherine Jackson. He was the seventh of nine children. Michael and his siblings were raised as [Jehovah’s Witness]es, however Michael left the church as an adult.

 * Michael Jackson began performing at age 5 as the lead singer of the Jackson 5 - a group composed of Michael and four of his older brothers. The group played at local clubs and bars and supposedly were beaten and abused by their father if they performed poorly.

 * In 1969 the Jackson 5 were “discovered” and signed to Motown Records. The Jackson family moved to California where the Jackson 5 soon became national stars. Their first 4 singles "ABC", "I Want You Back", "The Love You Save", and "I'll Be There" all became #1 hits. Later hits include the trending setting “Dance Machine”. With Motown Records the Jackson 5 made 14 albums, and Michael recorded 4 albums as a solo artist.

 * In 1976 The Jackson 5 left Motown (and renamed themselves the Jacksons). Between 1976 and 1984 the Jacksons produced 6 records and toured internationally. In 1977 Michael Jackson starred in the Wiz (alongside Diana Ross). It was here that he met Quincy Jones (the producer of the Wiz) who would later produce Michael Jackon’s three most acclaimed solo albums (“Off the Wall”, “Thriller” and “Bad”). “Off the Wall” (released in 1979) produced a record 4 #1 hits and sold 6 million copies in the United States.

 * In 1982 Michael Jackson release the “Thriller” album. “Thriller” produced 7 hit singles, broke records and quickly became the world’s best selling album (to date it has sold over 50 million copies). The “Billie Jean” music video, released to promote “Thriller”, became the first video by a Black artist to be aired on MTV, and the “Thriller” short film release as “The Making of Michael Jackson’s Thriller” became the world’s best selling home video. In 1983 while performing for the Motown 25th Anniversary Show, Jackson publicly performed the moonwalk (latter his signature dance move) for the first time, stunning TV audiences. At the 1984 Grammy Awards Jackson was nominated for 12 awards and won a record-breaking 8 awards (now equaled by Carlos Santana) – 7 for “Thriller” and 1 for his narrative on the “E.T. Storybook”.

 * In 1985 Michael Jackson released the single “We Are the World” (co-written with Lionel Richie). “We Are the World” was sung by 44 different singer including Cyndi Lauper, Diana Ross, Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder. “We Are the World” sold 7 million copies in the United States (becoming the best selling of the year) and raised money for USA for Africa – a charity working to raise awareness about and help starving people in Africa.

 * In 1986 Michael Jackson stared in the George Lucas/Francis Ford Coppola 3-D film “Captain Eo”. “Captain Eo” was shown in Disney theme parks until 1998. Minute for minute it is the most expensive film ever produced, costing an estimated 30 million to make. Jackson created two new songs for the film.

 * In 1987 Michael Jackson release “Bad” and began his first solo world tour. He performed to sold out audiences at each concert. The following year Jackson released a silly, playful movie and a serious, personal autobiography both titled “Moonwalker”.

 * In 1991 Michael Jackson was awarded a record breaking 890 million dollar contract by Sony and released an album “Dangerous”. During the “Dangerous” world tour Jackson announced the creation of his Heal the World Charity.

 * In 1993 Michael Jackson was accused by a 13 year old boy Jordy Chandler of child molestation and pedophilia. Although the charges were never proven and probably spurious, Jackson paid the boy a rumored 20 million in a out of court settlement. The following year Jackson married Lisa Marie Presley, the daughter of Elvis Presley, however the marriage lasted less than two years ending in divorce.

 * In 1995 Michael Jackson released “HIStory”, a greatest hits album that also contained 15 new songs. In 1997 Jackson released “Blood on the Dance Floor” a remix album with 5 new songs, and in 2001 he released “Invincible” – the most expensive album ever – which however sold only 2 million copies in the United States and 5-6 million worldwide (a disappointment considering Michael Jackson’s previous success and the cost of the album).

 * Something of an eccentric, Michael Jackson has three children – two by second wife Debbie Rowe and one by a surrogate he has never met. His children are never shown and appear in public only with white sheets draped over their heads to cover their faces. Jackson is a vegetarian and feels a strong connection to children and animals. His favorite pastimes include water balloon fight with children, climbing trees and sleepovers with children. He has several young friends whom he entertains at his home (known as the Neverland Ranch). The Neverland Ranch contains a small zoo and amusement park. His celebrity friends include actress Elizabeth Taylor, child-star Macaulay Culkin, paranormalist Uri Gellar andthe rabbi Shmuel Boteach, who heads Michael Jackson’s Heal the World Foundation. Jackson has had several plastic surgeries to modify his appearance.

 * In his career Michael Jackson has received a slew of awards including 18 Grammy Awards. Estimates for his album sales range from 200 million to well over 300 million. His “Thriller” video is normally considered the best music video of all times. MTV and Rolling Stones recently named four of his songs (“Billie Jean” #5, “I Want You Back” #9, “Beat It” #23 and “Rock with You” #82) as the 100 greatest pop songs of all time.

reply to oliver p
The purpose of an encyclopedia is to provide important information conveniently. This means high standards. 4/5 of the previous article was barely newsworthy – it was the stuff of tabloid – it was tabloid worthy. If we were writing a 175 page autobiography of Michael Jackson I would have no problem including this Michael=LaToya stuff. But this is supposed to be reference which means ~2 pages (10 pages max for a very broad topic e.g. Christianity). And 4/5 of that article just does not belong. -  H7asan

 * Do not limit yourself - or more importantly ourselves. Wiki is not paper Also do not wholesale delete other contributions. Rmhermen 18:33 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)

Hello, H7asan. I'm sorry for just taking all of your information out of the article.You did put in a lot of useful stuff, and I am intending to integrate it back in when I am less busy. But the problem is that you removed a lot of information on Michael Jackson that was already there, as well as the essential dissambiguation notes that enable users to find other people with the same name. I'm sure that we can integrate both articles together and come up with something that contains all the facts that you want in there as well as those that other people want, and then we can all be happy. Ish. :) Don't worry about space, because we have a lot of that. And don't worry about Mr. Jackson's penis, either. We won't end up with pages on that, because the details would be unverifiable. ;) -- Oliver P. 01:01 Apr 10, 2003 (UTC)

This article needs NPOVing. Come on, Patrick, please try to be impartial. -- Zoe

 * Which of my passages are you referring to? - Patrick 01:56 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

Regarding the replacement of "black" by "African American", Was it disclosed that she is American? - Patrick 10:01 Apr 15, 2003 (UTC)

Reverted. - Patrick 23:29, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)

What does "cha'mone" mean? And is it actually a catch phrase? Adam Bishop 03:00, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * Could be "jam on." -- knoodelhed 07:32, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I've removed this from the article:
 * Amongst many seemingly far-fetched rumors that circulate about him, he is believed by some people to be the same person as his sister, LaToya Jackson. United Kingdom bookmakers allow punters to bet on this subject, with odds of 500-1 payable on the presentation of evidence that they are the same person. . This could be a safe bet for the bookmakers, considering that they have been photographed together many times, and Michael is reputedly a foot taller than LaToya.

This doesn't seem particularly encyclopedic. --Minesweeper 10:55, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)

http://www.sbsheriff.org/wn/spr/11180301.html identifies as the address of Neverland Ranch "5225 Figueroa Mountain Road in the Santa Ynez Valley," near CA 154 and Calkins Road in Los Olivos, California.
 * We do not publish in wikipedia articles the addresses of private homes. Kingturtle 01:04, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * I'm not so entirely sure that it's a "private home" anymore. -- knoodelhed 07:32, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

beatle catalog
mention needs to be made of his ownership of the beatles catalog. i believe he doesn't own it anymore, but i don't know the story. Kingturtle 07:00, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Cited source of religion paragraph - moved from article -- Tualha 13:27, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How about adding a picture of when he was younger? dave 08:23, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'm curious, why don't his creditors go after him, if he owes them so much. dave 08:35, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Because he makes his monthly payments. Kingturtle 08:38, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * How does he make them? He must have to take out some more loans to do so.  But his credit rating must be rock bottom (if everything that has been said about his finances is true).  The only other alternative is that he is actually still rich and in no financial trouble at all.  After all, how can anyone really know?  Especially if he has a large chunk in a Swiss bank or something like that.  dave 20:11, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Get some NPOV happening here
I have removed the boldened section (and external link) from the following:

Also, in late 2002, Jackson stirred up more controversy (and unwittingly created an online video game ) by dangling his infant son Prince Michael II from the balcony of a German hotel.

While it may be customary for the media to portray Jackson as "Wacko Jacko" and joke about him, it is certainly not the place of Wikipedia to give out links to materials that serve no academic purpose except to humiliate the man. - Mark Ryan 12:45, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Does the massive paragraph about the "Black or White" video belong within the text of the MJ article? Shouldn't it, if anything, be in a seperate page about music video history, or perhaps just about that video itself (as it is, I agree, a groundbreaking moment in the medium.)66.157.94.151 09:45, 23 Nov 2003 (UTc

 * I favour the removal of the "unwittingly created an online game" line. Not because it is a joke, but because it is hardly a "video game".  These stupid flash games are created daily and they are pointess no mention as they are by no means historical or even interesting in any way.  dave 20:13, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Seems a remarkable coincidence to me that within weeks of Arnie becoming Gov. of California that a warrant for Jackson's arrest should be issued! Think about it are these two completely polarised show-biz stars actually going to like/approve of each other's life-styles??? Norwikian 23 Nov. 8:15 p.m

 * Yeah, politics is like that. In another remarkable coincidence, the US press are publicizing even the smallest incidents of attacks on US soldiers in Iraq while spiking any stories about Iraqis welcoming the forces of liberation; about Iraqis appreciating foreign aid; about schools and hospitals rebuilt or re-stocked; about political prisoners being released, etc.

 * BTW, how about a nicer picture of Jackson than the clown-face mug shot? Like, a shot of him singing on stage? --Uncle Ed 17:17, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Ed. I don't think the mug shot is representative of what the common-man's mental picture of Jackson is. Even if you use a shot of him later in his career when his look was more controversial, I think it should still be a performance or press oriented shot. 68.222.10.107 02:40, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sadly, fame and fortune often removes celebs from reality to the delusion that somehow they are an exception above the law, innocent until guilty perhaps, no Trial by Media is fair either but really Jackson invites these problemsNorwikian 16:36, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Recent move
I strongly disagree with the move to "Michael Joseph Jackson". Andy Mabbett 00:11, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Agreed, and I've moved it back - especially as it seems as if this was in preparation for a disambiguation. There are several times more links to this page meaning the singer than all the other Michael Jackons put together.  The disambig note at the top of the article is the right way to handle it. Morwen 00:13, Dec 21, 2003 (UTC)

I restored the history of the move, but it does not show the above-mentioned move back. As a result the restoration of the content is shown in the history as part of the edit of 00:14, 21 Dec 2003 by The Anome. To see that edit itself requires a special link:. - Patrick 08:08, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

photo
can we please find a different photo for the top of this article? I don't think this particular image captures the essence of Michael Jackson. Kingturtle 07:43, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree. The current photo has an "unverified" copyright tag. Any idea of its copyright status? (would guess that it is copyrighted or fair use) Andrew pmk 01:19, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Question
Here's a question: Why have just one page on Michael Jackson? Why not, for example, a second page about the rumors about Michael Jackson? Or a discography for Jackson on a second page?

Look, Jackson is a controversial figure, and may be of interest from more than one perspective; why not recognize this fact?

 * Since we have section editing there is less need for splitting up a large article, but you could try. - Patrick 22:43, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * While section editing is good, at least over the next year, this article will both have to grow to cover the Jackson case, and grow in interest as a refference topic. And certainly, if someone was doing research on Jackson, there may be a particular aspect that they are interested in (his solo career, the Jackson Five, tabloid rumors, the paedophilia case) and so, IMHO, the main article should be an over-view covering everything, with branches going into more depth about topics about him. Take a look at Lithuania to see what I mean by that...

 * Anyway, I'm raising it here to see if anyone has any objections to it, before I move ahead with it...- AJ

 * That is fine with me.--Patrick 02:16, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Photo
Let's use a different photo. That police photo is really tasteless. User:spencer195
 * You got another public domain photo we can use? Anthony DiPierro

Shouldn't we have a photo at the top of the page? Anthony DiPierro

Gavin
I removed the photo of Gavin. It just didn't seem right to me that wikipedia should have that photo, this kid is going through a lot right now. Even if he is not telling the truth, we should still respect his privacy rights. -User:jsonitsac
 * This is Gavin. [[Image:Tv_martin_bashir_doc_michael_jackson_with_gavin.jpg]] Even if he is a true-blue victim, he did agree to appear on the Martin Bashir documentary, and say everything was peachy keen. -- user:zanimum

I am going to fix a mistake - Jehovah's Witnesses don't disfellowship for "Not attending congregation meetings".george m

 * Agreed. The statement sounds like a one-sided account told by Jackson himself... I don't think someone can even be reproved for simple lack of meeting attendance.

-- An article that mentions Jackson's hobbies but not that he has been indicted for child molestation is not exactly NPOV, is it? It's very much out of date. There's a section on 2002 controversies but it's now 2004.Dr Zen 03:13, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Little Michael Jackson
Can we find a public-domain solo picture of Motown-era Michael? --b. Touch 23:56, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pedophilia
Given that Michael Jackson has not been found guilty for this allegations, is it really appropriate to have this mentioned in the first sentence of the article? I think this could be placed into a section, perhaps "Ongoing legal laction"? What does everything think? --Rebroad 16:24, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

de las uniones y de los niños de Jackson del
well, where did this paragraph come from?

Flora 03:19, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Balcony incident?
Weird, Michael_Jackson says "see above" about the balcony incident, but I cant find where this is explained in more detail. Is it somehow lost, or did I just overlook it.--Sonjaaa 12:11, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Michael Jackson. I agree that it appears to be awkwardly written. - Vague | Rant 08:44, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 21:37, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Michael Jackson/Archive 1


text:
Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive Wives

 * Hello Navid. I have to disagree with your assertion here.  A copy of Baháu'llah's Iranian passport page(s) is on the official Bahái web site (as well as on other web sites).  According to his passport, he had requested to visit the Shiite holy sites in then Ottoman Empire (modern day Iraq).  So it seems that he had told the authorities that he is going for shiite holy site pilgrimage, and he was taking his wives with him.  According to his passport, he took 4 women with him, and 2 sons.  Any reasonable person will think that he escaped out of Persia in this way, and he was not asked to leave.  His passport clearly indicates that the passport will expire in one year, which was the standard expiration date for passports issues at that time.  At this time his half-brother Sobh-i Azal was already the leader of the Babi community in Baghdad, and when Baháu'llah joined him, Sobh-i Azal put him in charge of much of the affairs of the movement.  From that point on, Baháu'llah went on to accept Subh-i Azal's leadership of the Babis for almost 10 years without any incidents until he came up with some ideas of his own.  It certainly seems that Baháu'llah planned to leave Persia and join the Babi community in Baghdad; and all the melodramatic stuff such as "he was forced to leave Persia with very little food and supplies etc...." is bogus and should be taken out of the article.  --Amir 16:23, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Check the BBC article in the references, it clearly says exiled. Check the 1988 Encyclopedia Article on the Bahá'i Faith, it says quote "He was released in January 1853 and exiled to Baghad." If you read the rest of this discussion, you will see that Bahá'u'llah was banished from Persia, he was free to go any place outside of Iran, and yes CHOSE Baghdad, but that doesn't been he was not exiled, he had to leave Persia.  -- Fadeaway919 18:50, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

 * OK fine, he had to leave Persia. So he took 4 women with him (apparently 2 were his wives, and 2 other -- probably concubines) and went to Baghdad. Later in Baghdad he married his third wife.  He had three wives at the same time.  This is not only against his own teachings, it is even against Babi teachings.  So even as a Babi he was not adhering to the principles.  The article says at age 27 he had accepted the Babi principles.  What does this tell us about Baháu'llah's personality?  It is also a fact that for 10 years after he went to Baghdad the Babi leader was Subh-i Azal and Baháu'llah was playing second fiddle to him. The article says that when he moved to Baghdad, the Babis turned to him for guidance.  This is a historical falsification and cannot be supported by any reliable evidence.  In fact, the reverse of it can be easily shown by historical evidence. --Amir 05:21, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding the people looking for guidance from Bahá'u'llah (1) From the Encyclopedia Brittanica (1988) "He was released in January 1853 and exiled to Bag had. There Bahá'u'lláh's leadership revived the Bábí community." (2) From the BBC article "On arrival, he met followers of the Bab and his influence grew to the extent that it caused dissension, conflict and jealousy amongst the followers of the Bab." and "In Baghdad, he found the Babi community had become dispirited and divided. It seemed that his brother had not provided effective leadership, so Bahá'u'llah spent the next 7 years teaching the basic teachings of the Bab by both word and example."

 * Regarding the people that travelled with him to Baghdad were his wives, his sister and his daughter.

 * Regarding Bahá'u'llah having more than one wife, even though his own teachings say that you can have only one wife. He had married more than one wife (in accordance with the teachings of Islam) long before he received the message of his claimed prophethood in 1853, and long before he accepted the Bab's message.  Furthermore he wrote the law of marriage in his time in Akka in the 1873, again long after he had more than one wife (again in accordance with the teachings of Islam, which he followed during his youth and young adulthood).  -- Fadeaway919 05:52, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * He married his third wife in Baghdad. For quite some time he had three wives at the same time.  He even made multiple children with these wives.  Can we be honest here for a second?  There is no graceful way to excuse his three wives at the same time.  The best thing to do is to just accept the facts as facts.  He had three wives at the same time, and he married his third wife in Baghdad.  He had married the first two while still living in Iran. So even as a Babi, he was breaking the principles of Babism.  Anyway, can you please include in the article that he had three wives at the same time?  --Amir 06:12, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * And did not Moses commit murder, one of the 10 commandments. The laws of one dispensation always take time to be completely applied.  Even now, not all of the Bahá'i laws revealed in the Kitab-i-Aqdas are applied to Bahá'is as explained by Abdu'l-Bahá and continued by the Universal House of Justice.  Abdu'l-Bahá explains that some of the laws are for future times when the world is not the same.  I'll add the personal life of Bahá'u'llah in the article.  -- Fadeaway919 06:24, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * Just another note to prove that the laws of the Arabic Bayan were not applied right away was that Mirza Yahya (Subh-i-Azal), the sucessor of the Bab, also took a second wife after the Bab died. -- Fadeaway919 06:36, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, in Babism you can have two wives. As you very well know, this is also the case with Baháu'llah's own writing, which was later "explained" by Abdul-Bahá that when Baháu'llah said you can have two wives, it really mean only one !!  :-)  --- so yes, Subh-i Azal took a second wife, but according to Babism he was not doing anything wrong. In both the Bayan and the Aqdas it is CLEARLY indicated that up to two wives is allowed.  --Amir 06:56, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * When and WHY did this discussion became about the wives of Bahá'u'llah?? and whats the point anyway? - --Cyprus2k1 14:36, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * It's true that there is no point, I would have this discussion with Amir1 offline, but he has not set up his e-mail address in Wikipedia. I would like to correct some misconceptions about Mirza Yahya's wives though, and I'll do it in the talk page of Mirza Yahya.   Fadeaway919 17:17, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * This article is about Baháu'llah. The fact that he had three wives at the same time is very relevant and quite important.  Why do you express a surprise?    This information is going into the article, just as soon as I find a bit of time.  --Amir 20:22, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

wives times three
I've been looking into Babism and limits to the amount of wives you can have. Anyone got anything off wikipedia about it being reduced to two by the Bab? I know this isn't about Babism but the wives of Bahá'u'llah is in this article so makes it relevant. -- Tomhab 00:38, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I know the Bab did this, but I don't know where. Looking on Jonah Winter's site seems impossible unless you already know where to find something.  Someone with Ocean ought to be able to find it. -- PaulHammond 03:35, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * I've just completed a reasonably thorough search through an up-to-date Ocean and found nothing on the matter (on either the authoritive or other Bahá'i books). I will continue looking, but if someone could find a reference that would be very handy. -- Tomhab 16:48, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I've seen it somewhere. I'll try to find it again.  -- Jeff3000 17:06, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * Just found this Miller boook. Do a search for "two wives" and it has a short passage on it. I'm still looking for something authoritive as the Miller book isn't known for lending much respect to the Bahá'is. Is this the one you read Jeff? -- Tomhab 21:30, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Wasn't that reference. I did some quick searching, and I can't find it.  Once I do I'll post it here.  -- Jeff3000 23:41, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive Wives


text:
Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive Exile

 * Amir1, I was wrong in the point of Mirza Yahya escape. Mirza Yahya was not in prison and he did not escape from prison.  After the failed assassination attempt, Mirza Yahya did leave to Bagdad, but since the authorities were looking for him (as they were for many other Babis after the assassination attempt, including Baha'u'llah) some texts (including the pro-Azali books) use the word escape for his travel to Baghdad. -- Fadeaway919 20:02, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

 * I also have found a non-Baha'i source which says Baha'u'llah was exiled. The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation has a series of documents on different Religions and Ethics .  In the Baha'i section, you can find the following quotes  "The prime minister of Persia decided that it was preferable for Baha'u'llah to be banished from the state and he was released from prison in 1853. He was stripped of his wealth and possessions and travelled to Baghdad with his wife."

One additional non-Baha'i source. I have just read the 1988 Encyclopedia Brittanica; it states clearly that Baha'u'llah was exiled from Persia to Baghdad. NavidAzizi 22:49, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive Exile


text:
Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive NPOV

Factual accuracy
This article looks like most of the claims were taken directly from Bahai myths/scripture. Wikipedia cannot contain information, which can't be independently verified. I think that without references to some independent history books/studies (i.e. not Bahai texts) some of the information may need to be removed or at least rephrased to indicate ambiguity and uncertainty. Paranoid 19:58, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * The references have been stated in the article. E.G. Browne was an English Historian who met with Baha'u'llah while he was imprisoned in Akka.  He was not a Baha'i and he wrote a book called A Travellor's Narrative where he wrote about both the Babi and Baha'i histories.  You can find the book in some libraries.  I urge you to go out and find info which is not in accordance with the article.  The things that could be taken out of the article are what people felt and how they reacted to Baha'u'llah and I am willing to remove them if necessary.  I am going to remove the disputed tag, until you can find sources that say that the information in the article is wrong. --  NavidAzizi 20:15, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * I was under the impression that A Traveller's Narrative was written by the son of Bahaullah (and translated by Browne?). The first line in the introduction says "This book is the history of a proscribed and persecuted sect written by one of themselves." . Clearly this is not an objective source. Ditto for the second reference. Please do not remove the disputed tag. It is not intended to imply that the current version is blatantly wrong (or even wrong at all). The only thing it implies is that there is an unresolved dispute, which there is (we are disputing whether there are sufficient references). It should attract the attention and stimulate other users to contribute to resolving the dispute. Paranoid 22:30, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * No that is another book called "New History" which is a translation by E.G. Browne of a Babi before Baha'u'llah even declared; it has none of the history of Baha'u'llah's exiles and his declaration. A Travellor's Narative is is E.G. Browne's own accounts when he went to the middle east.  Again, please point out what is disputed, and only then place the disputed tag.  Other than the picture, I can't see why the disputed tag is there.  -- NavidAzizi 04:52, Jan 15, 2005.

 * I've left the disputed tag there, but I'd like a list of disputed items, or I will remove it in a couple of days. -- NavidAzizi 05:01, Jan 15, 2005.

 * You removed most of my contributions to the article, which were objective and historical facts. Why?  Which of my contributions were wrong?  Also, you removed the part where I said Bahaullah escaped from Persia and went to Baghdad (just like many other Babis had done), you changed that to "he was exiled from Persia", yet, a look at the history of the page Subh-i Azal shows that you (NavidAzizi) wrote explicitly that he "escaped" to Baghdad.  What evidence do you have that Bahaullah (who at the time of his escape wasn't even the leader of the Babis) was exiled to Baghdad?  So this clearly shows that you are dishonest and you are promoting Bahaullah while at the same time demoting Subh-i Azal, consistent with your other "contributions" on this subject.  I will give you a chance to correct all these misdeeds and give the article an honest contribution, or else, be prepared that someone who knows the history of the Babis/Azalis/Bahais very well, will rewrite the whole chain of articles.  Martin2000 05:28, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Which of your contributions were wrong? Here's a list of your contributions and my comment to them:

1. "Although it seems highly strange that a distinguished nobleman in the court of a Persian King, not provide any formal schooling for his son. Even more strange is that after his father's passing, they would offer a high-ranking position to a person with no formal schooling."

So that addition is a POV, and I accept what was there originally could be seen as POV, and is thus removed.

2. "leadership was with Mirza Yahya ."

It is true that the Bab said that Mirza Yahya was the leader, but he did not guide anyone and that is why people looked to Baha'u'llah. But you are right, and even though it the original article did write Mirza Yahya was the leader lower down, I have moved it up.

3. he escaped from Persia to Baghdad, then a city in the Ottoman Empire and joined many other Bábís in Baghdad. At that time, the official leader of the Bábís was Bahá'u'lláh younger half-brother Mirza Yahya Nuri, known az "Subh-i Azal" who was appointed as the leader of the movement by the Báb himself, when the Báb was in prison.

Baha'u'llah did not escape. The authorities who had imprisoned him, let him go after they had ordered his exile. He was never really free, since they only let him go AFTER the exile order. If he had escaped, why would he go to Baghdad. Mirza Yahya was in a different prison in the north of Iran. Baha'u'llah's travel to Baghdad had nothing to do with Mirza Yahya's travel to Baghdad. The particlular reason that Baha'u'llah was exiled was the Baha'u'llah was the one whom the Persian prime-minister believed had instructed the assassination attempt on the Shah of Iran, and thus they wanted to get rid of him. Mirza Yahya was already in prison during the time of the assassination attempt.

4. "success among Bábís started a split in the Bábís community, and the followers of Subh-i-Azal became known az "Azali Bábís" and the followers of Bahá'u'lláh became known az "Bahái Bábís" -- later, they became simply known az "Azalis" and "Baháis""

You are right, except that the split happened after Baha'u'llah claimed he was the one whom the Bab has prophesized. I moved it to that part of the document.

5. "According to non-Bahá'í historians, the reason for the Ottoman government sending both the Bahá'ís and Azalis out of Baghdad, was the constant violence and brutality between the two sects. Eventually Bahá'u'lláh was exilted to Akka (now in Israel) and Subh-i Azal was sent to Cyprus."

This is not true at all, the violence if you call it was purely in words, except for Baha'u'llah's poisoning.

6. "According to the Bahá'is during"

I kept this there. You're right.

So in general, a lot of your changes were correct, there were POV in the article, and the article is updated to reflect a better version. Thank you for pointing them out. But the espace from the Siyah-Chal is plainly false. So please tell me what else is wrong with this article or any of the other articles I have edited. I will change the Mirza Yahya page to make less POV but that article is generally does not have a POV. NavidAzizi 06:20, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

One other thing I wanted to add is that you say I wrote the Mirza Yahya page. Actually that is not true, I just added stuff from Encyclopedia Britannica 1911. You can find the encyclopedia article here as linked to by the the Wikipedia article 1911_Encyclop%E6dia_Britannica.

Particularly in the Brittanica article you can see the following text (even with OCR errors). Note that britannica says Mirza Yahya escaped, and note that it says he lived in great seclusion. I did not say these things. Most wikipedians accept the 1911 Britannica as neutral and true.

 * The Bflb was succeeded on his death by MIrth Yahy of Nflr (at that time only about twenty years of age), who escaped to Bagdad, and, under the title of Subh-i-Ezel ( the Morning of Eternity ~),became the pontiff of the sect. He lived, however, in great seclusion, leaving the direction of affairs almost entirely in the hands of his elder halfbrother (born 12th November 1817), MIrth Husayn All, entitled Ba/ui ulld/i ( the Splendour of God ), who thus gradually became the most conspicuous and most influential member of the sect, though in the Iqdn, one of the most important polemical works of the Babis, composed in 1858-1859, he still implicitly recognized the supremacy of Subh-i-Ezel NavidAzizi 06:54, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't mean that he escaped form the Siyah-chal, what I mean is that after he was released from the Siyah-chal, he escaped out of Persia as many other Babis did at the time, because after the failed assassination attempt, it was extremely unsafe for the Babis in Persia. Bahaullah made a conscious decision to take his family to Baghdad where there already existed a sizable Babi community.  To my knowledge, there is no authentic evidence to support the claim that he was sent to exile by the authorities.  In fact, I can't even remember having read or seen any historical evidence (other than the Bahai literature) that he was even imprisoned in Persia.  This, I have only read in Bahai literature, but not elsewhere.

 * On another note, I have no problem with a link to his photo, but honestly, for the life of me I can't understand why it is "offensive" to have his photo in the article. In all honesty, to me it seems that the Bahais are actually insulting the guy by indirectly rejecting his appearance.  Wouldn't every Christian or Muslim have loved to know exactly what Jesus or Muhammed looked like?!!  The claim that "out of respect we don't want his photo here" is indeed strange and even lame -- but I will not insist, because in my heart I feel that the real reason for this objection is because the Bahais consider his photo to be ... hmmm ... "unmarketable".  That is like saying "we love the guy, we just wish he looked a little better so we could comfortably include his photo in the article"!! Martin2000 07:11, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I have gone through the article and made sure it is in accordance with the BBC article noted above (and in the references). This is a non-Baha'i source.  I will wait a couple days, and if there is no objection to the changes, I will remove the disputed tag -- NavidAzizi 02:53, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)

martin,  Tomhab based on the talk page putted a link to the photo AND asked "If you have problem with this please use discussion page first" which you havent and thats the reason i reverted again. if you really are interested in improving wikipedia please see Talk:Bah%E1%27%ED_Faith, and please do NOT flame others. - --Cyprus2k1 09:41, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Your history speaks for itself. Wikipedia is not a platform for religious promotionalism (any religion). Don't like it? Tough. Thank you.  --Martin2000 09:56, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * dear martin, Wikipedia is not a platform for religious promotionalism of any religion, i agree with you, everybody here agrees with you on that. no need to keep saying the same thing over and over, instead, give CONSTRUCTIVE arguments, in order to improve wikipedia, keep in mind however that your personal opinion on a topic may not the best or the correct one. be reasonable. (and no personal attacks please) - --Cyprus2k1 10:06, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Moved this section up here as its relevant. Sorry guys - thought the idea might suit everyone. Didn't mean for it just to bring up another argument. -- Tomhab 12:09, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive NPOV


text:
Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive Orthodox

Linking to Orthodox Bahá'í Faith
Please stop linking this article to the "Orthodox" Bahá'í Faith. The link is totally irrelevant - it is as if Jehovah's Witnesses would put a link to their site on the article about Jesus, just because they believe in him. This article must be a short biography about Bahá'u'lláh. Thank you. --Saed 20:04, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Um, it is perfectly reasonable to put a the link to the Othodox Baha'i faith. Look at say John the Baptist, 5 religions are mentioned because they believe in him. You are in the wrong not the link. Besides, what do you have against the othodox babs anyway? You have removed every linking to them. Yes, we can see exactly what you change. --metta,  T he  S unborn  ☸  20:09, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * one thing is a religion, another is a sect(constituted by a dozen people)!

 * I think that a link to the Orthodox Baha'i faith is valid - although I completely understand the Bahá'ís view of this.  The article about Jesus does link to the article about Jehovah's Witnesses  - as it should.  While I recognise and sympathise with the Baha'is view, the fact is that another group also claims a link to Bahá'u'lláh and they have been judged significant enough to have an article here.  To not link to the orthodox Bahá'ís is to make a point of view judgement on their validity - something that is outside the bounds of Wikipedia.  Regards -- sannse (talk) 20:11, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * isnt making a judgement that they are significant enough also POV?

I have nothing against the group of the Orthodox Bahá'ís. It is a matter of relevancy. Should we put on the article about Jesus every single link to the more than 20,000 groups, parties, sects and movements that are associated with him? The article about Bahá'u'lláh is a biography about him and his life. During the lifetime of Bahá'u'lláh (and even during the lifetime of his son ´Abdu'l-Bahá) the Orthodox Bahá'ís didn't even exist, so they have nothing to do with his biography. Thank you for your cooperation. --Saed 20:19, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * All I can say is so what? It doesn't matter the just because they didn't exist at the death of Bahá'u'lláh. They are an important religious phenominon. We list things with relavence. The 10,000 missing christian denominations are not there because they are not an important religious phenominon. They have their own list and are mentioned there. Orthodox Bahá'ís are important for two reasons, they are the second largest Baha'i group in the world. And two, their existance is interesting because the Baha'i religion is not supposed to have an factioning, it is against dogma.

 * In this case there are not 20,000 groups - there are only two (one much smaller than the other to be sure). Both recognise Bahá'u'lláh as a manifestation of God (if I am remembering my terminology right - I am not Bahá'í) and both have an article on Wikipedia.  And both articles should be linked to from here.  To do otherwise is introducing the point of view that Orthodox Bahá'ís are not legitimate.  The Orthodox Bahá'ís would say that they did exist before the death of Bahá'u'lláh (and Abdu'l-Bahá).  They would say that they are the true and legitimate continuation of that line - and whether you or I agree with that is beside the point.  We have to report the facts and not comment on our own beliefs - that is the essence of NPOV .  Regards -- sannse (talk) 20:36, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Dear Sannse, I agree with you that we must report facts. What are the facts? The Orthodox Bahá'ís have claimed for forty years now that they have a membership of more than thousand believers, yet every insider knows there is only one "leader" somewhere in the US with a handful of very active followers on the Internet trying to tell everyone that they are the second largest group after the "Heterodox Bahá'is". Of course they are the second largest group, because they are the only one, there is no other group! So if I would create a website about my new Bahà'í sect and had I five followers could I make it to Wikipedia? Just because someone seems to be very active on the Internet is a legitimation for him to be included in Wikipedia? You can go to Encylopaedia Britannica, check your lexikons about religion, look in theological publications etc - there is no word of the Orthodox Bahá'ís. They seem to be big, because they are so active on the Internet (and on Wikipedia it seems). --Saed 21:00, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I think that at least part of the problem is that it is difficult to verify the significance of this group. There appears to be propaganda on both sides (please note the word "appears", I do not wish to slur either side).  Perhaps there is some way to find a provably unbiased account of the significance of this group.  I know that I was aware of them before I came to Wikipedia (I have an interest in religions in general and Bahá'í in particular), and I think an article on them is justified - and if an article is justified then a link from this article is also important.  If there are discrepancies in the reporting of membership and significance of the group then that should be included in the Orthodox Bahai Faith article.. but there would still be a case for inclusion of a link in this article in that instance.  Removing all references to this group is not acceptable and feels like censorship - that is not what I believe Wikipedia should be about  -- sannse (talk) 21:18, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * With the above in mind, I have re-added the link. -- sannse (talk) 18:49, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * And have restored the link in the absence of further discussion here -- sannse (talk) 18:21, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

such "alternative" groups are very very small and are already mentioned in the main article, mentioning OBF everywhere is like mentioning "Potters of God" on every Chrstian related article. the OBF look "big" because there is pretty much one or two persons around the world that create a lot of different sites about them, to give the impression that they are very significant. plz dont let wikipedia get hoaxed.. --Cyprus2k1 08:16, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

There are 70 localities where Orhtodox reside, there are poeple that or 4th generation orhtodox now, so grow up. Also, at this point I am re-again putting the link in as both groups claim the smae founder, and as wiki forbids the erasing of links, further if the erasieris continue and you want an erasier war then be prepared for soem unpleasant consequences on your major sites.

title: Talk:Baháʼu'lláh/Archive Orthodox


text:
Vega, Haninge

Vega is a town district in Haninge Municipality, in Sweden. As of 2017, Vega has a population of 6,033 people. It is located north of Handen and is part of Stockholm.

As of 2019, Vega is being redeveloped with more than 3,000 planned homes. Vega station on the Stockholm commuter rail system opened on 1 April 2019.

title: Vega, Haninge


text: User talk:156.34.49.159

title: User talk:156.34.49.159


text:
Freebie and the Bean

Freebie and the Bean is a 1974 American buddy cop black comedy action film starring James Caan and Alan Arkin, and directed by Richard Rush. The film follows two offbeat police detectives who wreak havoc in San Francisco attempting to bring down an organized crime boss. The film, which had been originally scripted as a serious crime drama, morphed into what is now known as the "buddy-cop" genre due to the bantering, improvisational nature of the acting by Caan and Arkin. Reportedly, by the end of filming, both actors were confused by the purpose of the movie, not knowing that they had stumbled into a successful character formula. The film was popular enough to spawn various other successful film franchises such as, Lethal Weapon, 48 Hours and Beverly Hills Cop. Loretta Swit and Valerie Harper appeared in support roles.

Plot
Freebie and Bean are a pair of maverick detectives with the San Francisco Police Department Intelligence Squad. The volatile, gratuity-seeking Freebie is trying to get promoted to the vice squad to garner perks for his retirement while the neurotic and fastidious Bean has ambitions to make lieutenant. Against a backdrop of the Super Bowl weekend in San Francisco, the partners are trying to conclude a 14-month investigation, digging through garbage to gather evidence against well-connected racketeer Red Meyers, when they discover that a hit man from Detroit is after Meyers as well. After rejecting their pretext arrest of Meyers to protect him, the district attorney orders them to keep him alive until Monday.

After locating and shooting the primary hit man, and distracted by Bean's suspicions that his wife is having an affair with the landscaper, they continue their investigation seeking a key witness against Meyers who can explain and corroborate the evidence. In the midst of this, they foil a second hit on Meyers by a backup team, leading to a destructive vehicle and foot pursuit through the city, after which they learn that Meyers is planning to fly to Miami before Monday. Tailing him, they receive word that their witness has been located and a warrant issued for Meyers' arrest. Unknown to them, a woman Red Meyers picked up at a local park is a female impersonator looking to rob him.

During the arrest attempt at Candlestick Park, Bean is shot by the thief, who flees with Meyers into the stadium where the Super Bowl is underway. Freebie corners the thief in a women's restroom. Despite being shot himself, he rescues a hostage and kills the thief after he nearly bests Freebie with his unexpected martial arts skills. The D.A. arrives after the shootings and tells Freebie that the warrant is canceled because the witness was assassinated on the way to the station. Freebie goes nuts and demands to be allowed to arrest Meyers, which is granted by the lieutenant in command of his squad, only to find that Meyers has died of a heart attack. Freebie is further demoralized to learn that the evidence they gathered was planted by Meyers' wife in an extra-marital conspiracy with his lieutenant.

Bean is not dead after all, however, and in the ambulance the two wounded partners engage in a free-for-all when Freebie thinks Bean has been playing a joke on him, causing yet another accident.

Development
The film was based on an original script by Floyd Mutrux, who originally intended to produce his own property. In April 1972, he sold it to Warner Bros.

Mutrux maintained he had gotten offers from other studios but elected to go to Warners because he felt studio vice president Richard Zanuck was "the straightest shooter I've ever known."

The comedy followed on the heels of two popular action films about the San Francisco Police, Bullitt (1968) and Dirty Harry (1971), and incorporates plot elements prominent in both. James Caan later called the film "sort of The Odd Couple in a squad car, detectives, hopefully funny."

Mutrux claims Al Pacino was offered one of the leads but his agent requested $250,000 plus a percentage of the profits, so Warners went with James Caan. This casting happened in June. By August Richard Rush was attached to direct.

Rush described the original script as about: "Two corrupt cops who ride around in a police car, quarreling with each other like an old married couple. You were never sure which one was the wife and which one was the husband. They became interchangeable. There was also the somewhat clumsy, rough skeleton of the plot concerning a criminal that they must keep alive to testify while assassins are contracted to kill him, which survived through our final film screenplay. I liked these ideas but there was nothing else there to make a movie work." Rush says John Calley, head of Warners, told the director he could turn it into a "Dick Rush picture...He was very generous and promised the studio would be very agreeable. It was the kind of offer that you can't refuse."

Mutrux left the project and Rush rewrote the script with Robert Kaufman. The director says "we wrote a new screenplay about two bickering cops that became a prototype of the buddy cop movie. I put a lot of meat on the bones, with the unstereotypical wife of Freebie tormenting him with jealousy and the comic relief of their relationship."

In October, Alan Arkin signed to costar with Caan. Rush says Calley, who had worked with Arkin on Catch-22, warned the director that Arkin was "a director killer", but Rush insisted.

Before filming, Rush worked on the script with the two stars and Kaufman in several improvisational sessions. Rush says "at my suggestion they turned what had originally been serious drama into bizarre comedy. Slowly their relationship took on the pains and pleasures of a friendship neither could live with or without."

Arkin admits that it was Rush's idea to turn the film into a comedy. "I hadn't thought about it. I didn't see it in the script."

Shooting
Filming took 11 weeks in 1973. It was a difficult shoot, in part because Arkin and Caan felt their characters were being made secondary to stunts and action sequences.

Arkin said his relationship with Caan "was great. There is a very exciting interaction between us. Jimmy pushes me and forces me to change...But a lot of the time we've taken a back seat to the action."

There were difficulties between Rush and Arkin/Caan. Rush says "the main factor was Arkin. Caan was a copycat. He was Arkin's buddy and would do anything Arkin did...Arkin needed conflict as part of his method, and it was horribly disruptive, but it didn't show in his work."

Key scenes were shot on location in San Francisco at Candlestick Park. Dealing with local authorities reportedly was difficult for the crew.

The plot includes the protagonists’ repeated "totaling" of a series of their own unmarked police vehicles during three different chase-crash sequences. One sequence was filmed on an elevated portion of the since-demolished Embarcadero Freeway, ending with their police vehicle car crashing into an apartment building. After the car lands in an elderly couple's bedroom as they are watching television, Arkin's character collapses from nervous shock against the wall as Caan's character calls for a tow truck, adding that their location is “on the third floor”. The couple retains their aplomb throughout.

Rush said he "shot the film partly in a Tom and Jerry style, with lots of car chases and car crashes, and the heroes are being indestructible. The audience is laughing and enjoying themselves and suddenly Freebie would drive around the corner into a marching band of kids, and just sloughed through them. The audience thought Wait a minute. What am I laughing at?, and the style of the film had changed to stark realism. There was a lot of game-playing in the picture."

"I never actually knew what Rush wanted," said Arkin at the end of filming. "He [Rush] is so uncertain it's hard to handle," said Caan.

Release
Plans to distribute the film in early 1974 were shelved due to concerns about competition with Peter Hyams' similar Busting. The film opened the 1974 Chicago Film Festival. Freebie and the Bean was issued as a Christmas release.

Home media
The film was released on DVD in 2009 through Warner Home Video's Warner Archive label.

Reception and legacy
The film was panned by critics upon release. A.D. Murphy of Variety called it a "tasteless 'comedy' about two dumb cops breaking the law".

Peter O'Toole agreed to be in The Stunt Man on the basis of Rush's work on Freebie and the Bean.

The film was featured in the 1995 documentary film The Celluloid Closet. The film has become a cult favorite. In a 2018 interview Quentin Tarantino called it "nothing short of a masterpiece...absolutely brutal...part of the way the film worked was for you to laugh at the brutal violence and then feel bad about yourself for laughing."

A 2018 article in Rolling Stone alleged that Stanley Kubrick called Freebie and the Bean the best film of 1974.

Box office
The film became a substantial box office success. Through early 1976 it had earned rentals of $12.5 million in the United States and Canada. It was one of Caan's most successful movies after The Godfather.

Television
A short-lived nine-episode television series based on the film and sharing its title, starring Tom Mason and Héctor Elizondo in the title roles, was broadcast on CBS on Saturday nights at 9:00 PM in December 1980 and January 1981.

Accolades
Harper was nominated for the Golden Globe for New Star of the Year for playing the Hispanic wife of Alan Arkin.

title: Freebie and the Bean


text:
Talk:Section

Untitled
Question about Chaim Weizmann moved to Reference Desk. adamsan

Publishing / typography
I've seen the term "section" used to refer to groups of paragraphs within a chapter which are separated by an extra blank line or sometimes by an asterism where there is a change of scene or time.

Is "section" a technical term in this regard or just a general term with no clearly defined specific constraints? — Hippietrail 18:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Five years later, I've started an article for this meaning: Section (writing). —Pengo 22:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Section


text:
Roger Valley

Roger Valley (born January 29, 1957, in Kenora, Ontario) is a Canadian politician. He was a member of the House of Commons of Canada from 2004 to 2008, representing the riding of Kenora for the Liberal Party.

Valley worked as a commercial fisherman before entering federal politics. He also served as a city councillor and mayor of Dryden, and was the president of the local provincial Liberal Party riding association for almost ten years.

He was elected to parliament in the 2004 federal election, defeating NDP candidate Susan Barclay and Conservative Bill Brown in a close three-way race. The seat was left open after former Liberal cabinet minister Robert Nault announced his retirement from politics.

Valley initially won the Liberal nomination in a close contest against Charles Fox, a local aboriginal leader. Unlike the situation in some other Ontario ridings, the nomination battle did not result in lingering divisions for the local party organization; Fox endorsed Valley during the general election.

In the 2006 federal election Valley was re-elected in another close race against Brown and Barclay. He lost to Greg Rickford of the Conservative Party in 2008.

title: Roger Valley


text:
Trihalomethane

In chemistry, trihalomethanes (THMs) are chemical compounds in which three of the four hydrogen atoms of methane (CH4) are replaced by halogen atoms. Trihalomethanes with all the same halogen atoms are called haloforms. Many trihalomethanes find uses in industry as solvents or refrigerants. Some THMs are also environmental pollutants, and few are considered carcinogenic.

Industrial uses
Only chloroform has significant applications of the haloforms. In the predominant application, chloroform is required for the production of tetrafluoroethylene (TFE), precursor to teflon. Chloroform is fluorinated by reaction with hydrogen fluoride to produce chlorodifluoromethane (R-22). Pyrolysis of chlorodifluoromethane (at 550-750 °C) yields TFE, with difluorocarbene as an intermediate.

Refrigerants and solvents
Trihalomethanes released to the environment break down faster than chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), thereby doing much less damage to the ozone layer. Trifluoromethane and chlorodifluoromethane are both used as refrigerants. Chlorodifluoromethane is a refrigerant HCFC, or hydrochlorofluorocarbon, while fluoroform is an HFC, or hydrofluorocarbon. Fluoroform is not ozone depleting.

Chloroform is a common solvent in organic chemistry.

Occurrence and production
The total global flux of chloroform through the environment is approximately $660,000$ tonnes per year, and about 90% of emissions are natural in origin. Many kinds of seaweed produce chloroform, and fungi are believed to produce chloroform in soil.

Most of the haloforms—specifically, chloroform (CHCl3), bromoform (CHBr3), and iodoform (CHI3)—are easy to prepare through the haloform reaction, although this method does not lend itself to bulk syntheses. (Fluoroform (CHF3) cannot be prepared in this manner.)

Chloroform is produced by heating mixtures of methane or methyl chloride with chlorine. Dichloromethane is a coproduct.

Bromochlorofluoromethane is one of the simplest possible stable chiral compounds, and is used for studies.

Regulation
Trihalomethanes were the subject of the first drinking water regulations issued after passage of the U.S. Safe Drinking Water Act in 1974.

The EPA limits the total concentration of the four chief constituents (chloroform, bromoform, bromodichloromethane, and dibromochloromethane), referred to as total trihalomethanes (TTHM), to 80 parts per billion in treated water.

Traces of chloroform are produced in swimming pools.

title: Trihalomethane


text:
Feather-plucking

Feather-plucking, sometimes termed feather-picking, feather damaging behaviour or pterotillomania, is a maladaptive, behavioural disorder commonly seen in captive birds that chew, bite or pluck their own feathers with their beak, resulting in damage to the feathers and occasionally the skin. It is especially common among parrots (order Psittaciformes), with an estimated 10% of captive parrots exhibiting the disorder. The areas of the body that are mainly pecked or plucked are the more accessible regions such as the neck, chest, flank, inner thigh and ventral wing area. Contour and down feathers are generally identified as the main target, although in some cases, tail and flight feathers are affected. Although feather-plucking shares characteristics with feather pecking commonly seen in commercial poultry, the two behaviours are currently considered to be distinct as in the latter, the birds peck at and pull out the feathers of other individuals.

Feather-plucking has characteristics that are similar to trichotillomania, an impulse control disorder in humans, and hair-pulling which has been reported in mice, guinea pigs, rabbits, sheep and muskox, dogs and cats, leading to suggestions for a comparative psychology approach to alleviating these problems.

Causes
Feather-plucking is generally regarded as a multifactorial disorder, although three main aspects of bird keeping may be related to the problem: (1) cage size often restricts the bird's movements; (2) cage design and barrenness of the environment often do not provide sufficient behavioural opportunities to meet the bird's sensitivity, intelligence and behavioural needs; and (3) solitary housing, which fails to meet the high social needs of the bird.

Early experience
Feather-plucking is often attributed to a variety of social causes that may include poor socialisation or absence of parents during the rearing period and because of this, the individual subsequently expressing the disorder fails to learn appropriate preening behaviour. Several studies have focused on the importance of rearing methods (wild-caught, parent-raised, hand-reared).

Isolation
In captivity, pet birds are often kept isolated from conspecifics whereas in the wild they would form stable, sometimes large, flocks. These birds may not deal well with a solitary lifestyle. Deprivation of a social or sexual partner may lead to 'separation anxiety', ‘loneliness’, ‘boredom’, sexual ‘frustration’ and ‘attention-seeking’ behaviour. These factors may all contribute to feather-plucking, although no empirical studies have been performed to test these ideas.

Barren environment
Increasing environmental complexity can reduce feather-plucking, however, other studies have only managed to stabilise existing plumage problems.

Re-directed foraging behaviour
Increasing foraging opportunities can markedly reduce feather-plucking. This has many similarities with the redirected foraging behaviour hypothesis proposed for feather pecking in commercial poultry. Birds in captivity are usually given energy-dense, readily available food that is consumed rapidly, whereas in the wild they would have to spend many hours foraging to find this. It is considered that a combination of a barren environment and the 'excess' foraging time available is then spent redirecting foraging to feathers of other individuals. When 18 feather-plucking grey parrots (Psittacus erithacus) were provided with food in pipe feeders rather than bowls, their foraging time significantly increased by 73 minutes each day and their plumage improved noticeably within one month.

Stress
Feather-plucking has also been interpreted as a coping strategy for negative affective states e.g. stress, loneliness, boredom, induced by inappropriate social or environmental factors. Findings in favour of the stress hypothesis include a study in which distinctive room position affected occurrence of the disorder. Orange-winged amazon parrots (Amazona amazonica) that were housed in proximity and direct line of sight to the door showed significantly more feather-plucking compared to individuals housed further away from the door, indicating presence of stressors as a causal factor. In addition, parrots that feather-pluck have been found to have higher levels of corticosterone, a hormone secreted by many animals when they are exposed to chronic stress. It has also been suggested that long day-lengths can cause feather-plucking; presumably this could relate to birds becoming overly tired and therefore stressed.

Medical and physical factors

Many medical causes underlying the development of feather-plucking have been proposed including allergies (contact/inhalation/food), endoparasites, ectoparasites, skin irritation (e.g. by toxic substances, low humidity levels), skin desiccation, hypothyroidism, obesity, pain, reproductive disease, systemic illness (in particular liver and renal disease), hypocalcemia, psittacine beak and feather disease (PBFD), proventricular dilatation syndrome, colic, giardiasis, psittacosis, airsacculitis, heavy metal toxicosis, bacterial or fungal folliculitis, genetic feather abnormalities, nutritional deficiencies (in particular vitamin A) and dietary imbalances, and neoplasia. For many of the above-mentioned factors, a causative relationship or correlation has not been established and may therefore merely be the result of coincidental findings.

Approximately 50% of parrots exhibiting feather damaging behaviour have been diagnosed as having inflammatory skin disease based on paired skin and feather biopsies. The birds try to relieve itching by grooming their feathers, but this often leads to over-grooming and eventually feather-plucking.

Neurobiological factors
Little is currently known on brain dysfunction in feather-plucking. However, it may be hypothesized that abnormal brain function is involved, especially in those cases that appear sensitive to treatment with behavioural intervention and environmental changes. Psychotropic therapy for birds has been suggested as treatment for feather-plucking although responses seem variable.

Genetic factors
In orange-winged amazon parrots, a heritability estimate of 1.14 ± 0.27 was found for feather-plucking, indicating that a genetic basis exists. This study, however, only involved analysis of full siblings and a small number of birds, explaining the heritability value of greater than 1. Quantitative trait loci (QTL) analysis could provide more insight in possible genetic markers that are involved in feather-plucking.

Treatment
Veterinary treatment  or an improved and more stimulating environment may help birds suffering from feather-plucking. Organic bitter sprays are sold in pet stores to discourage plucking, especially of newly grown feathers, although this may make general beak-based grooming difficult for the animal. This is not recommended since it does not address the real reason why the bird is picking feathers. Likewise, physical items such as collars or vests, which are commercially available or may be improvised by the parrot's owner from items such as pipe insulation tubes (placed around the neck) or socks (cut into a vest which the bird is made to wear) may prevent the bird from plucking by providing a barrier which makes the act more difficult, but does not deal with the underlying cause of the feather-plucking.

Studies have shown that administration of haloperidol to affected birds will cause a long-term reduction in obsessive feather-plucking, however the birds always relapsed as soon as the medication was withdrawn. Clomipramine is also linked to minor long-term improvement for the condition, although it is not generally as effective as haloperidol.

Administration of fluoxetine is also known to reduce feather-plucking activity but only for very short periods of time, with the birds generally relapsing after several weeks of therapy and requiring a continually increasing dose of the medication. Use of fluoxetine for this condition is also linked to major relapse of feather-plucking when the medication is withdrawn, and it is known to cause severe psychological side-effects in certain birds.

title: Feather-plucking


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Amanda Randolph

Amanda E. Randolph (September 2, 1896 – August 24, 1967) was an American actress and singer. She was the first African-American performer to star in a regularly scheduled network television show, appearing in DuMont's The Laytons.

Early life
Born in Louisville, Kentucky, Randolph was the daughter of a Methodist minister and a teacher. She had a younger sister, Lillian who also became an actress.

Music
The Randolph family moved frequently. At the age of 14, Randolph began earning extra money playing the piano and organ in Cleveland, Ohio. Around 1919, she moved to Cincinnati, Ohio, where she recorded several piano rolls of hot jazz and blues music for the Vocalstyle company of Cincinnati while working as a musician in Ohio's Lyric Theatre. These are the only known rolls recorded by a black female pianist. Randolph did her work for the company under the name Mandy Randolph. She is shown as the performer of "The Yellow Dog Blues", by W. C. Handy in 1919, Vocalstyle roll # 11562. Randolph also wrote music she recorded for the Vocalstyle company; she is shown as both the performer and composer of "I'm Gonna Jazz My Way Right Straight Thru Paradise", and as the co-author of "Cryin' Blues" with H. C. Washington.

Randolph also cut audio recordings, accompanied by Sammie Lewis. A record album was produced in 1996 by Document Records called, Blues & Jazz Obscurities (1923–1931), containing the six duets the pair produced. Still working under the name Mandy Randolph, she recorded "Cootie Crawl" (G11425) on April 30, 1923, and "I Got Another Lovin' Daddy" for Gennett Records.

She was invited to join the Sissle and Blake musical, Shuffle Along, in New York in 1924 and went on to do Lucky Sambo as one of the Three Dixie Songbirds (sharing the bill with its star, Tim Moore, whom she later appeared with on The Amos 'n' Andy Show from 1951 to 1953). in 1925, she was part of Sissle and Blake's The Chocolate Dandies. Randolph then worked in musicals at New York's Alhambra Theater until 1930, following that with work in Europe and England for a year.

Randolph worked on the vaudeville and burlesque circuits as a comedian and as a singer, noting that Abbott and Costello also got their start the same way. Randolph took a four-year hiatus from show business in 1932; she married and helped her husband run their restaurant in New York called The Clam House, which was a favorite of those in the entertainment industry. She then returned to performing, playing piano at a Greenwich Village club called The Black Cat. She continued recording for Bluebird Records, a label created in 1932 and owned by RCA Victor Records. She did the vocals with her own band, billed as Amanda Randolph and her Orchestra. The records were made in New York City on October 8, 1936. On that date, Amanda cut: "Please Don't Talk About My Man" (Bluebird 6615), "Doin' The Suzie-Q" (Bluebird 6615), "Honey, Please Don't Turn Your Back On Me" (Bluebird 6616), "For Sentimental Reasons" (Bluebird 6617), "He May Be Your Man But" (Bluebird 6617), and "I've Got Something In My Eye", (Bluebird 6619-B). She also recorded "After Hours"; some of these songs can be heard on radio station KBRD which also broadcasts on the internet.

Films, radio and television

Randolph's film career began in 1936 with Black Network. She went on to do several Oscar Micheaux films, among them: Swing, Lying Lips and The Notorious Elinor Lee. Broadway roles in The Male Animal and Harlem Cavalcade soon followed. Around the same time, Randolph broke into radio, helped by people she met at The Clam House, who got her a CBS audition. She began working on various radio shows: Young Dr. Malone, Romance of Helen Trent and  Big Sister.

She went on to become a regular cast member on Abie's Irish Rose, Kitty Foyle, and Miss Hattie with Ethel Barrymore, where she had the role of Venus. Randolph also appeared on Rudy Vallée's radio show and on Grand Central Station.

She continued working in films until the 1960s, and was one of the first African-American women to become a comedy favorite on television. Randolph and the trio The Three Barons appeared over CBS-TV in 1944, and she was the first African-American performer to star in a regularly scheduled network television show, appearing in DuMont's The Laytons. This short-lived program was on the air two months in 1948.

Although sometimes uncredited, Randolph was the voice of Petunia in Famous Studios' popular Little Audrey. The following is a list of cartoons in which Randolph voiced Petunia:

 * Butterscotch and Soda (1948)
 * The Lost Dream (1949)
 * Song of the Birds (1949)
 * Hold the Lion, Please (1951)
 * Audrey the Rainmaker (1951)

During the 1948-49 television season, Randolph starred for about a year in her own daytime musical TV program for DuMont, Amanda, which aired Mon-Fridays from 12noon to 12:15pm ET, making her the first African-American woman with her own show on daytime television. Randolph did not settle in California until 1949, when she earned a role in Sidney Poitier's No Way Out. Even though she was working in New York and her younger sister, Lillian, had been working in Hollywood for some time, newspapers often got the two sisters mixed up, doing a story on Amanda but with a photo of Lillian and vice versa. She then became a regular on the early TV series, The Amos 'n' Andy Show, as Sapphire's mother, Ramona Smith, from 1951 to 1953; she also played the same role for the show's radio version from 1951 to 1954.

Randolph then began working with her sister, Lillian, who played Madame Queen on the radio and television shows. She was the star and titular character in The Beulah Show from 1953 to 1954, assuming the role from Lillian. Randolph also did some work for CBS Radio Workshop in 1956, playing the role of the folk heroine Annie Christmas in The Legend of Annie Christmas.

Randolph had a recurring role as Louise the Maid on CBS's The Danny Thomas Show and appeared in the show's 1967 reunion program, which aired shortly after her death. She guest-starred on the NBC anthology series, The Barbara Stanwyck Show. In 1955, Amanda opened a restaurant in Los Angeles called "Mama's Place", where she did the cooking.

Despite all her film and television work, Randolph found herself slightly short of the requirements for a much-needed Screen Actors Guild pension at the age of 70 (both sisters had struggled for roles in the late 1930s). A role was written for her to gain eligibility.

Personal life
She married Harry Hansberry sometime after 1940. Hansberry was the owner of the "Hansberry's Clam House" (aka "Edith's Clam House") at 146 West 133rd Street, New York City's most famous gay speakeasy in Harlem, The couple had two children before separating, and they remained estranged until Hansberry died of a heart attack in 1961.

Death
Randolph died of a stroke in Duarte, California, on August 24, 1967, aged 70. She is survived by a son, Joseph, and a daughter, Evelyn. She is interred at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in the Hollywood Hills beside her sister, Lillian.

Filmography

 * ''Comes Midnight (1940)

Watch

 * Amos 'n' Andy: Anatomy of a Controversy Video by Hulu
 * "Lying Lips (1939)" at Archive.org

Listen

 * The Beulah Show at Internet Archive-1954.

title: Amanda Randolph