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Tooele Army Depot

Tooele Army Depot (TEAD) is a United States Army Joint Munitions Command post in Tooele County, Utah. It serves as a storage site for war reserve and training ammunition. The depot stores, issues, receives, renovates, modifies, maintains and demilitarizes conventional munitions. The depot also serves as the National Inventory Control Point for ammunition peculiar equipment, developing, fabricating, modifying, storing and distributing such equipment to all services and other customers worldwide. TEAD provides base support to Deseret Chemical Depot.

Tooele Army Depot originally opened in 1942 during the early phase of U.S. involvement in World War II. The workforce at the post is now primarily composed of civilians. A full colonel serves as the commander. Colonel Eric B. Dennis is the depot's commander.

Capabilities
Capabilities of the depot include: engineering; explosives performance testing; logistical support; machining, fabrication, assembly, repair; robotics; non-destructive testing; demilitarization; laser cutting; and Slurry Emulsion Manufacturing Facility.

History
Built in 1942, TEAD was originally called the Tooele Ordnance Depot and was a storage depot for war supplies. In 1988, TEAD acquired the general supply storage mission from Pueblo Army Depot. In 1955 Tooele Army Depot took over the rail equipment repair shop at Hill Air Force Base near Roy, Utah; and the site operated as a satellite of TEAD until 1994. In BRAC 1993, it lost its troop support mission, maintenance and storage missions. TEAD retained its ammunition logistics support function.

Facilities
TEAD is housed on 23610 acre with 1,093 buildings, 902 igloos and storage capacity of 2483000 sqft.

BRAC 2005
TEAD will gain the ammunition storage function from Sierra Army Depot, which will be realigning due to Base Realignment and Closure 2005.

Environment
TEAD was placed on the Environmental Protection Agency’s National Priority List (Superfund) in 1990.

In 2009, the Tooele Army Depot was awarded the 31st Annual Secretary of the Army Energy and Water Management Award and the 2009 Federal Energy and Water Management Award. This was based on conservation efforts which saved TEAD more than $60,000 and nearly 100 million gallons of water per year.

title: Tooele Army Depot


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File:John Cocoris.jpg

John Cocoris. Born in Leonidion, Sparta on September 17, 1877. He introduced sponge diving to the new world in 1905 and started the Greek immigration to Tarpon Springs. Photographi from the Florida Photograph Collection.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File:John Cocoris.jpg


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User:X-Bunny

Hi. I'm just another Wiki user. Pay no attention to me. Unlike others, I don't go around posting VfD headers on stuff. I just read it. No offense to the people that post VfD on stuff though. They usually have good reasons.

Who am I? Someone. That's who. Pay me no attention. I'm just another person. :-) I don't make very many contributions but you'll see my stuff here and there. You wan't me to be more specific? OK, fine.

Who am I?
I am X-Bunny. Named after the fictional character by Reed McCoy. I don't do much. I just rot in front of my computer. My real name is *****. Ha! You'll never find out my real name! Hahahahahahahaha! *ahem*.

Profile
That's it for now. Go read something interesting.
 * Job: Student
 * Age: Between 0 and 20
 * Address: 123 Fake Street

title: User:X-Bunny


text: File:Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids.jpg

title: File:Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids.jpg


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonny Bryant

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 17:44, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jonny Bryant
Vanity page. 64.219.97.19 00:38, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Non-notable teenager vanity page, delete --nixie 02:33, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Sn0wflake 03:43, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, vanity. Megan1967 03:53, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, clearly vanity, probably could have been speedied. - TB 12:44, 2005 Feb 25 (UTC)
 * Delete, Just some kid. --StoatBringer 11:54, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)


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Fatu Huku

Fatu Huku, also known as Fatu Uku, is a small island in the Marquesas Islands, approximately 30 km north of Hiva Oa. Fatu Huku is less than 2 km long and 1 km wide and has an area of about 1.3 sqkm

Government and geography
Fatu Huku is located at 9.43°S latitude and 138.93°W longitude. It is administratively part of the commune (municipality) of Hiva Oa in the administrative subdivision of the Marquesas Islands.

The island is essentially a huge rock, looming steep-sided out of the ocean and rising to a flattened plateau with a maximum elevation of 361 m. Fatu Huku is the youngest of the volcanic Marquesas Islands, estimated to be only 1.3 million years old which accounts, in part, for its ruggedness as erosion has not yet carved out valleys and beaches. Coral is rare in the Marquesas, but a fossilized ancient coral reef is found at the higher elevations of Fatu Huku. The island is also surrounded by a roughly triangular-shaped barrier reef that is completely submerged, but can faintly be seen on satellite images.

Fatu Huku is a dry island compared with most high islands in Polynesia, receiving only an estimated 800 mm to 1000 mm of precipitation annually. The altitude is insufficient to capture much of the moisture from the predominantly easterly winds. The dryer conditions and steep terrain limit the variety of vegetation. Forty-eight percent of the land, mostly on top of the plateau, is covered with Pisonia forest; 21 percent is grassland, and 31 percent is sparsely vegetated rock. A few coconut trees are found in coastal locations. Unlike inhabited islands, Fatu Huku has few non-native species of plants and is inhabited by sea birds and imported goats and rats.

People and culture
Fatu Huku was likely only ever inhabited in legend. Unreliability of water sources and lack of land suitable for agriculture were factors preventing any habitation. Fishermen occasionally visited the island. The story of the demigod Tana-Oa, patron of fishermen, says that the island was once fertile and green, until the sea, jealous of its beauty, turned the island upside down. It is said that this is how the island came to have coral on its flat top. On the plateau are a number of small heaps of stones, used to leave offerings by hunters visiting the island.

title: Fatu Huku


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John Cocoris

John Michael Cocoris (Γιάννης Μιχάλης Κόκκορης; September 17, 1877 – 1944) was a Greek businessman.

Born in Leonidio, he came to New York City in 1895 to work in the sponge trade. In 1896, he worked with John K. Cheyney in Tarpon Springs, Florida. In 1905, he introduced sponge diving to the area and recruited Greek sponge divers from the Dodecanese Islands. By the 1930s, the sponge industry of Tarpon Springs was very productive, generating millions of dollars a year.

He died in 1944 in Duval County, Florida.

title: John Cocoris


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Ghirardelli Square

Ghirardelli Square is a landmark public square with shops and restaurants and a 5-star hotel in the Marina District of San Francisco, California, United States. A portion of the area was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1982 as Pioneer Woolen Mills and D. Ghirardelli Company.

The square once featured over 40 specialty shops and restaurants. Some of the original shops and restaurants still occupy the square.

History
In 1893, Domenico Ghirardelli purchased the entire city block in order to make it into the headquarters of the Ghirardelli Chocolate Company. In the early 1960s, the Ghirardelli Chocolate Company was bought by the Golden Grain Macaroni Company, which moved the headquarters off-site to San Leandro and put the square up for sale.

San Franciscan William M. Roth and his mother, Lurline Matson Roth, bought the land in 1962 to prevent the square from being replaced with an apartment building. The Roths hired landscape architect Lawrence Halprin and the firm Wurster, Bernardi & Emmons to convert the square and its historic brick structures to an integrated restaurant and retail complex, the first major adaptive re-use project in the United States. It opened in 1964. In 1965, Benjamin Thompson and Associates renovated the lower floor of the Clock Tower, keeping the existing architectural elements, for a Design Research store. The lower floors of the Clock Tower are now home to Ghirardelli Square's main chocolate shop.

In 1981, Ghirardelli Square was bought by a partnership of Capital & Counties USA and Northwestern Mutual Life.

In order to preserve Ghirardelli Square for future generations, the Pioneer Woolen Mills and D. Ghirardelli Company was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1982.

In 2008, part of the former clock tower building opened as Fairmont Heritage Place hotel. The hotel includes 53 residence-style rooms spanning four floors, and offers fractional ownership opportunities for all 53 of its hotel rooms. It is one of the few 5-star hotels in the Fisherman's Wharf area.

In 2013, Ghirardelli Square was purchased by Atlanta, GA, based Jamestown L.P.

Design and legacy
The plaza is at the eastern end of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, connecting the Embarcadero waterfront promenade to the natural parkland of the Marina Green, Crissy Field and the Presidio Parkland.

Lawrence Halprin's idea for Ghirardelli Square was to preserve the space within the urban setting and create an example for other U.S. cities, something which hadn't been done before. Ghirardelli Square featured many rarities at the time of its creation. For instance, Halprin designed all the street furniture and light fixtures, at a time when street furniture was not as common. Furthermore, a ramp was put in for William Wurster, who was disabled, another design choice rarity for the era. Lastly, Ghirardelli's underground garage was new: rather than having the garage connect to the road, shops were put at street level in order to promote social opportunities.

The cast bronze statue in Ghirardelli's Plaza, titled “Andrea,” was installed by San Francisco sculpture artist Ruth Asawa in 1968. It features two mermaids, one of whom is nursing a merbaby, surrounded by frogs and turtles. The statue was designed to delight viewers in the wonders of the ocean and to create a connection between the square and the nearby bay. The fountain was met with condemnation from American landscape architect Lawrence Halprin who found the piece unserious and demanded its removal. Many San Franciscans, especially women residents, rallied around Asawa in support of keeping the sculpture.

One obstacle for the design was that Ghirardelli Square was at the foot of the Pacific Heights neighborhood. The Pacific Heights community wanted the giant Ghirardelli sign removed because of how bright it was at night. Rather than take down the sign, Halprin had it turned around to face the waterfront.

After several years, a series of renovations had departed from Lawrence Halprin's original design intention, resulting in Ghirardelli Plaza becoming visually unappealing and less accessible. Pre-2017, a revitalization project was undertaken focusing on improving public access, promoting year-round activity, improving environmental sustainability, and improving the plaza's aesthetics. The project used Lawrence Halprin's design archives and worked with the City of San Francisco's Historic Preservation Commission in order to combine Halprin's original planting and design approach with local plant species. The redesign won the Northern California ASLA Merit Award for Historic Preservation.

There is some disagreement about how much Halprin's repurposed site design is originally his own. The project was initially conceived by Caree and Stuart Rose, who had pushed for retail located in reused environments, and in the 1940s, activists Jean and Karl Kortum had been arguing for the preservation of the waterfront by turning it into a combined heritage and retail center.

Architects
Lawrence Halprin and William Wurster were architects of Ghirardelli Square.

Current stores on the square

 * Bank of America
 * Compass
 * Broadway Coffee
 * Culinary Artistas
 * Elizabeth W.
 * Gameday VR
 * Ghirardelli Chocolate Manufact
 * Ghirardelli Chocolate On The Go!
 * Ghirardelli Chocolate Marketplace
 * Gigi & Rose
 * Gigi & Rose Children
 * Imperial Parking, LLC
 * Jackson & Polk
 * Lola of North Beach
 * Mashka Jewelry
 * McCormick & Kuleto's
 * Palette
 * Pico
 * San Francisco Brewing Company
 * Subpar Mini Golf + Arcade
 * Succulence
 * The Cheese School
 * The Pub
 * Unlimited Biking
 * Vom Fass
 * Wattle Creek Winery
 * Yap Designs

title: Ghirardelli Square


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Category:Wards of Nagoya

Wards of the city of Nagoya in Aichi Prefecture, Japan.

title: Category:Wards of Nagoya


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User:NeevaN

mirësevini! !مرحبا добре дошъл! degemer mat benvingut! 欢迎! velkommen! welkom! bonvenied! bonvenon! tere tulemast! !خوش آمديد tervetuloa! bienvenue! wolkom! willkommen! καλώς ορίσατε! tereg̃uahẽ porãite! ברוכים הבאים Isten hozta! velkommin! selamat datang! benvenite! fáilte! いらっしゃいませ! 잘 오셨습니다! salvete! wëllkëmm! witajcie! bem-vindo! bine aţi venit! добро пожаловать! ¡bienvenido! karibu! välkommen! hoş geldiniz! räxim itegez! xin chào! vekömö! namkelekile! !װילקום isibingelelo!

title: User:NeevaN


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Manius Aemilius Lepidus (consul 11)

Manius Aemilius Lepidus was a Roman senator who was active during the Principate. He was ordinary consul in AD 11 as the colleague of Titus Statilius Taurus. Tacitus reports that Augustus, while discussing possible rivals for the Roman Emperor Tiberius on his deathbed, described him as worthy of becoming emperor (capax imperii), but "disdainful" of supreme power.

Early life
Lepidus has been assumed to be the son of Marcus Aemilius Lepidus the Younger and his wife Servilia Isaurica, but modern-day historians believe he was more likely the nephew of Lepidus the Younger. He had a sister named Aemilia Lepida.

Career
After 5 BC, but prior to acceding to the consulship, Lepidus was co-opted as an Augur. He defended his sister at her trial in AD 20. At the trial of Clutorius Priscus, he argued without success that the proposed death sentence was excessively harsh. In AD 21, he achieved the pinacle of a Senatorial career, the proconsular governorship of Asia.

Personal life
He had a daughter also called Aemilia Lepida who married Emperor Galba.

title: Manius Aemilius Lepidus (consul 11)


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Shomer Emunim

Shomer Emunim (שומרי אמונים, meaning "Guardian of the Faith") is a devout, insular Hasidic group based in Jerusalem. It was founded in the 20th century by Rabbi Arele (Aharon) Roth.

The Shomrei Emunim are characterized by fervent and visibly emotional prayer, and by a rigid lifestyle controlled largely by "takanos", decrees written by the Rebbe. One such decree, for example, forbade wearing wool. (Jewish law forbids wearing anything that contains both wool and linen. Rabbi Aharon worried that it would be safest not to wear wool at all, in order to avoid the possibility of violating the law altogether.)

Dynastical history and divide
Grand Rabbi Aharon Roth, or Reb Arele (as his Hasidim sometimes call him, affectionately), was known to pray especially fervently. According to one story, he regularly had to change his clothes twice during the Sabbath morning service. While the normal service might be two or three hours long, Rabbi Aharon frequently drew the service out for five or more hours.

Rabbi Aharon was known to be very anti-Zionist, and many of his Hasidim today continue that tradition, particularly the Toldos Aharon and Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok groups. They owe their strong opinions on Zionism to the literal reading of the Talmud's proclamation that Jews should not take over the Holy Land prior to the coming of the Messiah. For more information about this subject, see Three Oaths; compare also Satmar's opposition to Zionism. While Rabbi Aharon's opposition to Zionism predated the publication of the Satmar rebbe Joel Teitelbaum's book Vayoel Moshe, Teitelbaum's and Rabbi Aharon's reasoning for opposing Zionism are similar, if not identical.

When Rabbi Aharon died, his son and his son-in-law both became rebbes in their own right. The dynastic chain:

 * Rebbe Aharon "Reb Areleh" Roth (d. 1946) - author of Shomer Emunim, Shulchan HaTahor, and Taharas HaKodesh - founding Rebbe of Shomrei Emunim dynasty in the town of Satmar, Hungary, and Jerusalem.
 * Rebbe Avrohom Chaim Roth - (d. 2012) Shomrei Emunim Rebbe in Jerusalem and Bnei Brak - son of "Reb Areleh" Roth.
 * Rebbe Avrohom Yitzchok Kahn (d. 1996) - author of Divrei Emunah - previous Toldos Aharon Rebbe of Jerusalem - son-in-law of "R' Areleh" Roth.
 * Rebbe Shmuel Yaakov Kahn - present Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Rebbe in Jerusalem - eldest son of the previous Toldos Aharon Rebbe.
 * Rebbe Dovid Kahn - present Toldos Aharon Rebbe in Jerusalem - son of the previous Toldos Aharon Rebbe.

Shomrei Emunim group

Rabbi Aharon's son, Rabbi Avrohom Chaim Roth, inherited Rabbi Arele's shul in Jerusalem and the name and title "Shomer Emunim", and become Rebbe and Rabbi Arele's successor, recognized as such by the Belzer Rebbe and Rabbi Shlomke of Zvhil.

Approximately ten years after becoming Shomrei Emunim Rebbe, Rabbi Aharon's son also opened a second shul in Bnei Brak, and today, he divides his time between Jerusalem and Bnei Brak, as well as occasional visits to his shul in Ashdod (headed by the Rebbe's son Rabbi Aharon Roth, the Shomrei Emunim Rov) and to Tifrach.

The Shomrei Emunim Rebbe has four sons who are involved in Shomrei Emunim, and five sons-in-law, all of whom are rebbes in their own right.

The Shomer Emunim group is more moderate than the Toldos Aharon - Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok sects, and is informally affiliated with Agudat Yisrael. The Rebbe himself does not vote, but he encourages his Hasidim to.

Toldos Aharon and Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok groups
Rabbi Aharon's son-in-law, Rabbi Avrohom Yitzchok Kohn, adopted the name Toldos Aharon "Generations of Aharon". Most of Reb Arele's followers left to follow the son-in-law, Rabbi Kohn. Toldos Aharon and Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok are strongly anti-Zionist.

Hasidic books of the Shomer Emunim, Toldos Aharon, and Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok groups
In addition to those books which are revered by all Hasidic Jews, the Toldos Aharon Hasidim particularly revere the books, Shomer Emunim, Shulchan HaTahor, and Taharas HaKodesh, by Rebbe Aharon Roth, and Divrei Emunoh by Rebbe Avrohom Yitzchok Kahn. The version of the prayer book used by Toldos Aharon Hasidim is called Brucheh i'Tehilleh. The Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok Hasidim have published a weekday prayer book called, Tehillas Avrohom Yitzchok, but also use the Brucheh i'Tehilleh version as well.

The previous Rebbe of Toldos Aharon, R' Avrohom Yitzchok, was said to have instructed his followers to learn the works of Rabbi Aharon HaLevi of Staroshelye (pronounced Strashelye), which include "Sha'arei HaYichud VeHaEmunoh", "Sha'arei Avoda", and "Avodas HaLevi". The Staroselyer Rebbe was a follower of the first Rebbe of Chabad, Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liadi. After the passing of R' Shneur Zalman, R' Aharon HaLevi started his own Hasidic following, an offshoot of Chabad, in Staroselye.

title: Shomer Emunim


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Lullus

Saint Lullus (Lull or Lul) (born c. 710 AD in Wessex - died 16 October 786 in Hersfeld) was the first permanent archbishop of Mainz, succeeding Saint Boniface, and first abbot of the Benedictine Hersfeld Abbey. He is historiographically considered the first official sovereign of the Electorate of Mainz.

Monk to archbishop
Lullus was born in Wessex around 710 AD. He was a monk in the Benedictine monastery of Malmesbury Abbey in Wiltshire. It is possible that his earlier name was "Rehdgerus" (possible in a multitude of spellings including Ratkar, Hredgar, Raedgar, etc.). During a pilgrimage to Rome in 737 he met Saint Boniface and decided to join him in his missionary work in northern Germany. In 738, Lullus joined the Benedictine monastery of Fritzlar, founded by Boniface in 732, where his teacher was abbot Saint Wigbert who had also come from England.

In 741, Charles Martel died, and in this year the most important phase of Boniface's career started, with Lullus as his closest assistant. Many of the biographical facts about Lullus derive from the Boniface Correspondence: he is attested as a deacon in 745-46, as Boniface's archdeacon in 746-47, and as priest in 751 though he was probably ordained before that. The correspondence evidences that Lullus was trusted enough to be Boniface's messenger (he went to Rome twice on his behalf) and this includes the secret negotiations over Boniface's successor at Mainz. Lullus exchanges letters (and gifts) with Edburga of Minster-in-Thanet and Leoba, among others; as the youngest of Boniface's associates and not yet tied to a specific place, he grew to be his closest associate. Moreover, a study by Michael Tangl, cited by Theodor Schieffer, suggests that Boniface, whose eyesight had begun to fail him early in the 740s, may have used Lullus's services in reading and writing the letters that were such an important part of his work, and Tangl suspected that Lullus likely cooperated with Boniface on some of the most important letters.

King Pippin confirmed him in 753 as bishop of Mainz and in 754 he became archbishop, as Saint Boniface resigned and appointed Lullus his successor. Lullus became the first regular archbishop of Mainz when Pope Hadrian I granted him the pallium in about 781. He then greatly expanded his bishopric by absorbing those of Büraburg (near Fritzlar) and Erfurt.

Carolingian era
From 769 onward, Lullus promoted the establishment of the Carolingian style monastery of Hersfeld Abbey, which he succeeded in having placed under Charlemagne's Carolingian dynasty protection in 775.

Lullus's chief accomplishment was the completion of Saint Boniface's reform of the church in the Frankish Carolingian Empire and the successful conclusion of the Christianization of the Germans in Hesse-Thuringia. But while Boniface had looked for a close link to Rome, Lullus sought a better understanding with the Frankish kings.

Lullus died on 16 October 786 in Hersfeld Abbey at Bad Hersfeld, and is buried in the church.

Veneration
Lullus was canonized on 7 April 852.

The Vita Lulli, written by Lampert of Hersfeld (probably between 1063 and 1073) led to Lullus being venerated as a saint and becoming the main patron of the abbey along with Wigbert.

Lullusfest, the oldest folk festival in Germany, marked its 1,160th birthday in 2012. The festival celebrates the founding of the city of Bad Hersfeld. Founded more than 1,275 years ago, the city still reveres St Lullus, who left Malmesbury in the 730s on a mission to convert the German tribes to Christianity.

title: Lullus


text:
Defunct AF2 teams

The following is a list of teams that, at one time, played in the AF2. This does not include teams in AF2 when the Board of Directors formed the New AFL in 2010.

title: Defunct AF2 teams


text: User talk:70.240.81.120

title: User talk:70.240.81.120


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Latinius Pacatus Drepanius

Latinius Pacatus Drepanius ( 389–393), one of the Latin panegyrists, flourished at the end of the 4th century AD.

Life
He probably came from Aginnum (Agen), in the south of France, in the territory of the Nitiobriges, and received his education in the rhetorical school of Burdigala (Bordeaux). He was the contemporary and intimate friend of Ausonius, who dedicated two of his minor works to Pacatus, and describes him as the greatest Latin poet after Virgil.

Pacatus was probably a professor of rhetoric at Bordeaux. Pacatus attained the rank of proconsul of Africa (390) and held a confidential position at the imperial court.

He is the author of an extant speech (ed. R.A.B. Mynors, XII Panegyrici Latini, Oxford 1964, No. 2; English translation in C.E.V. Nixon / Barbara Rodgers, In Praise of Later Roman Emperors, Berkeley 1994) delivered in the senate house at Rome (389) in honor of Theodosius I. It contains an account of the life and deeds of the emperor, the special subject of congratulation being the complete defeat of the usurper Maximus. The speech is one of the best of its kind. Though not altogether free from exaggeration and flattery, it is marked by considerable dignity and self-restraint, and is thus more important as a historical document than similar productions. The style is vivid, the language elegant but comparatively simple, exhibiting familiarity with the best classical literature.

He is attested as comes rerum privatarum in 393.

The writer of the panegyric must be distinguished from Drepanius Florus, deacon of Lyons c. 850, author of some Christian poems and prose theological works.

title: Latinius Pacatus Drepanius


text:
Kvicksund

Kvicksund is a bimunicipal locality situated in Västerås Municipality, Västmanland County and Eskilstuna Municipality, Södermanland County in Sweden with 1,768 inhabitants in 2010. It is located on the shores of Lake Mälaren. Kvicksund is mainly situated in two different areas, one on the southern shore and one on the northern. The northern part is confined to the island of Nyckelön while the southern part is on the mainland.

title: Kvicksund


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Hodding Carter

William Hodding Carter II (February 3, 1907 – April 4, 1972) was an American progressive journalist and author. Among other distinctions in his career, Carter was a Nieman Fellow and Pulitzer Prize winner. He died in Greenville, Mississippi, of a heart attack at the age of sixty-five. He is interred in the Greenville Cemetery.

Early life and education
Carter was born in Hammond, Louisiana, the largest community in Tangipahoa Parish, in southeastern Louisiana. His parents were farmer William Hodding Carter I and Irma, née Dutartre. He was valedictorian of the Hammond High School class of 1923. Carter attended Bowdoin College in Brunswick, Maine (1927), and the Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University (1928).

He returned to Louisiana upon graduating. According to Ann Waldron, the young Carter was an outspoken white supremacist, yet he began to alter his thinking when he returned to the South to live.

Career background
After a year as a teaching fellow at Tulane University in New Orleans (1928–1929), Carter worked as reporter for the New Orleans Item-Tribune (1929), United Press in New Orleans (1930), and the Associated Press in Jackson, Mississippi, (1931–32).

With his wife, Betty Werlein of New Orleans, Carter founded the Hammond Daily Courier, in 1932. The paper was known for its opposition to popular Louisiana governor Huey Pierce Long Jr., but its support for the national Democratic Party.

He won the Pulitzer Prize for Editorial Writing in 1946 for his editorials on intolerance, as exemplified by "Go for Broke", lambasting the ill treatment of Japanese American (Nisei) soldiers returning from World War II. He was a professor for a single semester at Tulane.

Fighting intolerance
He also wrote editorials in the Greenville Delta Democrat-Times regarding social and economic intolerance in the Deep South that won him widespread acclaim and the moniker "Spokesman of the New South".

Carter wrote a caustic article for Look magazine which detailed the menacing spread of a chapter of the White Citizens' Council. The article was attacked on the floor of the Mississippi House of Representatives as a "Willful lie by a nigger-loving editor". Carter responded in a front-page editorial:"By vote of 89 to 19, the Mississippi House of Representatives has resolved the editor of this newspaper into a liar because of an article I wrote. If this charge were true, it would make me well qualified to serve in that body. It is not true. So to even things up, I hereby resolve by a vote of one to nothing that there are eighty-nine liars in the state legislature."

Personal life
He had a son Hodding Carter III, born in 1935, who became State Department spokesman during the Carter administration and achieved a degree of notoriety by often appearing on television news.

Carter was strongly opposed to the Munich Conference, which ceded the Sudetenland to Adolf Hitler. Carter rushed into World War II service. While stationed at Camp Blanding in Florida, he lost the sight in his right eye during a training exercise. He thereafter served in the Intelligence Division and continued his journalistic activities by editing the Middle East division of Yank and Stars and Stripes in Cairo, Egypt, and writing three books.

Politics and the Kennedys
Carter was an unabashed supporter of the Kennedys and their quest for the American Presidency.

He had dinner with Bobby Kennedy and his family the night before Kennedy was assassinated in 1968. Carter had also been working for him "campaigning, making talks, and writing ghost speeches". On a flight home, Carter learned of Kennedy's death and was devastated. A passenger on the plane said, "Well, we got that son-of-a-bitch, didn't we?" Carter responded, "Who are you talking about?" The passenger said, "You know damn well who I'm talking about", to which Carter responded by saying "You're just a son-of-a-bitch", and then punching the passenger in the mouth.

Criticism
Columnist Eric Alterman, in a book review of The Race Beat (2006) for The Nation discusses how Carter and other Southern journalists were "moderate defenders" of the South. That is, they were apologists for the South during the pre-civil rights era. Alterman says, "'Enlightened'" Southern editors, especially...Mississippi's Hodding Carter, Jr., sold [Northerners] a Chalabi-like dream of steady, nonviolent progress that belied the violent savagery that lay in wait for those who stepped out of line". One of the reasons segregation had been a success, according to Alterman, is "the way newspapers had neglected it".

In Hodding Carter: The Reconstruction of a Racist, author Ann Waldron makes the case that although Carter crusaded for racial equality, he hedged on condemning segregation, and that after Brown v. Board of Education in 1954, he attacked the intransigent White Citizens' Council, but only supported gradual integration.

In defense of Carter, Claude Sitton, writing about Waldron's book in The New York Times says, "[R]eaders of today will ask how an editor who opposed enactment of a federal antilynching law as unnecessary and public school desegregation in Mississippi as unwise can be called a champion of racial justice. The answer, which she gives in the book's introduction, lies in the context of the times...Absent his efforts and those of other Southern editors of courage and like mind, change would have come far more slowly and at far greater cost."

Research
Mitchell Library at Mississippi State University in Starkville holds Carter's personal papers.

Books

 * Lower Mississippi (1942)
 * The Winds of Fear (1945)
 * Southern Legacy (1950)
 * Gulf Coast Country (1951) (with Anthony Ragusin)
 * John Law Wasn't So Wrong: The Story of Louisiana's Horn of Plenty (Baton Rouge, La.: Esso Standard Oil Company, 1952).
 * Where Main Street Meets the River (New York: Rinehart & Co., 1953)
 * Robert E. Lee and the Road of Honor (1954)
 * So Great a Good (1955)
 * Marquis de Lafayette: Bright Sword for Freedom (1958)
 * The Angry Scar: The Story of Reconstruction (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1959)
 * First Person Rural (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1963)
 * The Ballad of Catfoot Grimes and Other Verses (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1964)
 * So the Heffners Left McComb (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1965)
 * The Commandos of World War II (1966)
 * Their Words Were Bullets: The Southern Press in War, Reconstruction, and Peace, Mercer University Memorial Lectures, No. 12 (Athens, Ga.: University of Georgia Press, 1969)
 * Doomed Road of Empire: The Spanish Trail of Conquest (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1963)

title: Hodding Carter


text:
Battle of San Romano

The Battle of San Romano was fought on 1 June 1432, in San Romano, some 30 miles outside Florence, between the troops of Florence, commanded by Niccolò da Tolentino, and Siena, under Francesco Piccinino. The outcome is generally considered favourable to the Florentines, but in the Sienese chronicles it was considered a victory. As the 1430s began Florence had found itself in conflict with the rival city state of Lucca, and her allies, Siena and Milan.

The Florentine deployed about 4,000 horse and 2,000 infantry. The clash, which lasted for some six or seven hours, consisted of a series of heavy cavalry fights. It was decided by the intervention of a second cavalry corps commanded by Micheletto Attendolo.

Paintings
The battle was depicted in three large paintings by the Italian Renaissance artist, Paolo Uccello: The Battle of San Romano. Today the three panels are separated and located in galleries in London, Paris, and Florence:

 * Niccolò Mauruzi da Tolentino at the Battle of San Romano (probably about 1438–1440), egg tempera with walnut oil and linseed oil on poplar, 182 x 320 cm, National Gallery, London.
 * Niccolò Mauruzi da Tolentino unseats Bernardino della Ciarda at the Battle of San Romano (dating uncertain, about 1435 to 1455), tempera on wood, 182 x 320 cm, Galleria degli Uffizi, Florence
 * The Counterattack of Michelotto da Cotignola at the Battle of San Romano (about 1455), wood panel, 182 x 317 cm, Musée du Louvre, Paris

title: Battle of San Romano


text:
User:Hoho~enwiki

baker's dozen? or just layman's dozen? listen to the pastry talk about baking — Hoho (Talk) 15:51, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

links to read

 * http://www.intellectbooks.com/nation/html/anglos.htm

title: User:Hoho~enwiki


text:
Talk:Heung Jin Moon

Early (May 2005) discussions
What a load of sentimental crap - surely not up to NPOV standards! [unsigned]

 * On Feb 20 1984 Ballerina Julia Pak married the ghost of Sun Myung Moon's dead son, Heung Jin Moon, in a tasteful necro-ceremony. The couple were engaged to be married, but the car accident in December intervened. Unfortunately in the Moonie religion, only married couples may enter Heaven, hence the need for this awkward rite.

 * ghost
 * tasteful necre-ceremony
 * Unfortunately
 * awkward

Would someone help me copyedit this passage? It seems snide, as if the writer were deliberately sniping at Moon & Pak. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 15:22, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey, at least they said it was tasteful. How's this?

 * Moon's death came before his planned marriage to ballerina Julia Pak. According to the tenets of his religion only married couples may enter heaven. Therefore his parents conducted a post-mortem marriage ceremony three months later, February 20, 1984.

 * Any better? -Willmcw 17:19, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Considerably - although the term post-mortem carries the connotation of "trying to figure out why he died". I don't think he's parents were really wondering about that...

In fact, we should mention in the article that his father noted the coincidence between the precise hour of (1) his son's car crash and (2) the start of a his crucial Kwangju speech at which (he claims) terrorists were planning to assassinate him. (Don't worry, I will not present it as FACT but as Rev. Moon's POV.) -- Uncle Ed (talk) 19:08, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, post mortem literally means after death. In any case, if there is a theory that it was not an accident then it sounds like his parents were not sure why their son died. How did hitting a truck prevent an assassination? It's not clear from your comment as to who was giving the speech, what it was, or why it was crucial. Lastly, if the church does in fact believe that unmarried souls cannot enter heaven, then is it correct that Heung Jin Moon entered heaven immediately, even though the marriage did not occur until months later? It would be helpful to have some better explanation of that. Cheers, -Willmcw 19:38, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Also, it'd be nice to get the usual biographical info - when and where born, attendance at college, etc. -Willmcw 19:39, May 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I'll get to that eventually. But getting bakc to "entering heaven" first:

 * In another article, I will have to clarify the Unification Church's concept of heaven and afterlife. The most commonly discussed idea in Christianity (or in atheistic critiques of Christianity) is that of a sharply bifurcated "either-or" division of the spirit world into Heaven and Hell. Glorious rewards for the good guys and unbearably nasty punishments for the bad guys.

 * Much of the criticism of this simple either-or division centers on the Rules used to determine one's fate. Did I "accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour"? (the fundamentalist question) Have I confessed my sins? (the factor that made Hamlet delay killing Claudius)

 * Why should a simple mental or verbal exercise have so profound an effect on a matter at least as weighty as whether a prisoner remains in or gets out of a Vietnamese Hanoi Hilton?

 * Anyway, this is not very relevant to the current article; perhaps I digress (as at prisoner abuse). But to return to the point at hand: the spirit world has various levels. It's not simply +1 and -1 (or even +1, 0 and -1 where 0 = Catholic purgatory). "The measure you give will be the measure you get," Jesus said, so the quality of one's afterlife is directly related to how well one has "lived for the sake of others".

 * The doctrine of "cannot enter heaven single" refers to an upper level of the already rather high level an unmarried saint would merit. Often these distinction don't survive translation from Korean very well. You'd have to be very familiar with UC doctrine to interpret an isolated quote like that.

 * I'm not saying it was taken out of context, since that would blame the reader / quoter. Rather, it was poorly translated or edited. So much of what Rev. Moon has said, simply isn't understood well because we followers have not made the effort to systematize our understanding. We merely compile his speeches, a process that works fairly well in Korean, but ...

 * Okay, back to work for me. I hope you caught my drift. And anyway, thanks for your conscientious efforts to bring accuracy and clarity into these articles. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 16:05, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the clarification. For the purposes of this article then, perhaps it would be sufficient to say that marriage is required in order to reach the highest level of heaven. I'll go ahead and insert that. Cheers, -Willmcw 20:29, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * We also need to know more about this assassiniation attempt, which I don't think is even mentioned in the article on Sun Moon. I think we can leave off the fact that he loved horses and stray cats. -Willmcw 20:33, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * He also like working on old junk cars, fixing them up. You know, nothing goes to waste? (Like stray cats.) Now he spends all his spare time rescuing lost souls from hell, when their descendants participate in the grace and repentance ceremony.

 * Okay, a lot of this is going to seem theoretical / theological. (I just wrote Fictionology, so I know how zany it all looks. ;-)

 * I'll go into assassination attempts as part of the Sun Myung Moon article. There have been several (to my knowledge). And I have no idea how many which were hushed up. Security guards once found a time bomb at the church's Belevedere Estate set so it would have exploded during Rev. Moon's speech to members, had it not been detected. (You're often better at digging up sources than I am; I wonder why that is so? I ought to be familiar with my own church! *sigh* Maybe I'm too close to the subject.) -- Uncle Ed (talk) 16:56, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * I finally found a biography of Rev. Moon, which I added to the external links of that article. I haven't had a chance to read it yet - there may be more info on the assassinations there.

 * Regarding Heung Jin, some mention should also be made of his posthumous books. I've seen some references which describe them as having been "channeled." Do you consider that to be an NPOV term? If we're going to include statements about his present activities, they'll have to be clearly attributed. Cheers, -Willmcw 21:37, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm pretty sure "channeling" is a mainstream term. We speak of "dictating" and "recording", in our light-hearted confidence that a specific, known spirit man is transmitting messages to a particular earthly person. "Channeling" has a connotation of being rather haphazard, and I think it deserves this reputation.

 * Hm. Maybe I'll get into past lives (past life regression?) and reincarnation while I'm at it. The general public has practically no exposure whatever to the Unification Church's POV about a distinction between "returning resurrection" and reincarnation. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 19:06, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

Notability?
Is this article really necessary? --Nissi Kim 21:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Did you read the article?!?
 * "Heung Jin Moon is officially regarded to be the 'king of the spirits' in heaven (rather than Jesus)"
 * An argument can be made that Heung Jin Moon is to Unificationism what Mary is to Catholicism, the second most important figure in the history of the world after the messiah (for Unificationists, that's True Parents). I suppose his significance should be made clear in the first paragraph. Unless you think that Wikipedia should have no more than 2 or 3 articles on Sun Myung Moon and Unificationism (see the long list of - sometimes marginally notable - topics in category Unification Church), you really can't argue that Heung Jin Moon is not notable in relation to the Unification Church. He is central, both in terms of the beliefs of Unificationists and in the history of Unificationism. -Exucmember 17:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the Unification article and the Moon article. IMO, a merge could be a bit better for the content. In the mean time, can we have some specific cited notations for the certain key facts in this article? --Nissi Kim 22:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

 * It seems, though, that you did not go to Category:Unification Church, or you would have seen 89 pages (89 articles) on topics related to the Unification Church, and at that point I think you would have reconsidered the suggestion that the long Sun Myung Moon article and the long Unification Church article be merged (that is what you suggested, right?), because that would seem to imply merging all 89 articles into one.

 * On the second issue you raised, I've seen some Wikipedia articles that just list the references at the end (as this Heung Jin Moon article does) and other articles where the references are specifically footnoted with a one-to-one correspondence. I prefer the latter, but in some articles this method may be unwieldy, as textual material is supported by multiple references and/or vice-versa. If you mean to say that you would like to see the latter system used for this article, you could attempt to convert it yourself, if you are sufficiently interested in this topic.

 * On the original issue you raised, I have moved the sentence about his notability in the context of Unificationism to the first paragraph. -Exucmember 06:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Ed Poor's blanking of large section of sourced material
I am reluctant to criticize User:Ed Poor in such a harsh manner, in part because I appreciate his early work on Wikipedia, but the wholesale blanking of well-sourced material on this page is inexcusable. At the same time he added unsourced commentary that was clearly false. My biggest disappointment, however, is that his actions are not atypical for Unification Church members, who often deal with difficult problems by pretending they don't exist or didn't happen, and hiding all criticism (labeled "negativity") from the public and from the "younger" members. Such methods may work in authoritarian, backward, third-world settings, but they don't measure up to modern standards of ethics, and they will not help the Unification Movement to improve.

Ed, I really think it would be best for you if you just leave this article alone. Your views on this topic are way out of the mainstream even among Unification Church members. You have demonstrated repeatedly that you have some kind of inability to make constructive edits to this article in particular, and your recent actions are simply unacceptable. If you continue, I will report you. -Exucmember (talk) 09:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

-- A lengthy paragraph in this piece is credited to Larry Moffitt and is sourced to an un-bylined statement at TParents.org. Larry Moffitt is not the author, so it was deleted. No author is listed for that piece at TParents.org, at least that I could tell. Sanviejo (talk) 12:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Overlap
The majority of this article appears to overlap with the topic of Black Heung Jin Nim. Additionally, it appears to lack third-party sourcing (and frequently any sourcing at all). HrafnTalkStalk(P) 15:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I've just spent hours working on this article. I deleted those portions discussing Black Heung Jin Nim (which seem to have been copied here from that article) that were not directly relevant to this article. The many references (including third-party by even the strictest definition) that had not been placed inline were transferred as appropriate.

 * All 3 of the issues mentioned in the template at the top of the article are, in my opinion, clearly no longer applicable, but I'll leave it there for now and let others voice their opinions. -Exucmember (talk) 04:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

While I don't completely disagree with Exucmember's assessment, I think there's sufficient 'devil in the details' to warrant closer examination. I would therefore suggest that: HrafnTalkStalk(P) 06:02, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) This article essentially starts with Heung Jin Moon's death: 'Death at age 17' -- meaning that we have two articles on UC's beliefs about him post-mortem. This would seem to be a considerable overlap per WP:MERGE.
 * 2) The longest section in the article is still the explicitly overlapping 'Members' channelling replaced by official "embodiment"'
 * 3) The second longest section, 'Significance attributed to Heung Jin Moon's death' is sourced almost solely to UC sources (the sole exception itself being a quote from Bo Hi Pak).
 * 4) The sections leading up to 'Members' channelling replaced by official "embodiment"' could reasonably be considered context (again per WP:MERGE for the Black Heung Jin Nim article.
 * 5) The three third party sources are: (i) a brief report of his death, (ii) a roughly 50/50 mix of Black Heung Jin Nim & general post-mortem beliefs & (iii) an article focusing exclusively on Black Heung Jin Nim.
 * 1) Heung Jin Moon does not have notability independent of Black Heung Jin Nim; &
 * 2) That there is a strong rationale for merging them together into a single article on the UC's beliefs on the spiritual ramifications of and communications from Heung Jin Moon's afterlife.

How would people feel about a merged title of Unification Church beliefs about Heung Jin Moon? This would: HrafnTalkStalk(P) 07:26, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Clearly encompass the topic of Black Heung Jin Nim; &
 * 2) Clearly indicate that it is not a biographical article about Heung Jin Moon (which the current title of this article appears to erroneously imply).

(old) Merger proposal
As nobody objected to my proposal in the above section, and as this article contained no pre-mortem information on Heung Jin Moon, I have gone ahead and renamed this article, and am now formally proposing merging Black Heung Jin Nim here -- as both articles cover the UC's beliefs about Heung Jin Moon, post mortem. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 14:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC) [Oh and Exucmember, the refactoring template on your talkpage was not "disingenuous", it was in response to this refactoring of this comment. Please do not do so in future. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 08:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC) ]

 * Strongly Oppose name change and Strongly Oppose merge. Heung Jin Moon is about Heung Jin Moon and beliefs about him. Per Redddogg, who hit the nail squarely on the head in saying "Many articles on religious figures are mainly about other people's beliefs about them after the person's death." Black Heung Jin Nim is about a phenomenon that occurred over a period of about a year which involved both beliefs about Heung Jin Moon and the actions of an African Unification Church member, and how the interaction of the two played out over the period. This particular phenomenon was covered heavily in the press, and was called "what some Unification Church members believe is the most momentous spiritual event in its 34-year history" by the Washington Post. Only one of the 6 sections of the Heung Jin Moon article deal with the Black Heung Jin Nim. -Exucmember (talk) 06:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no move, but Black Heung Jin Nim may be merged with this article. Aervanath (talk) 05:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Heung Jin Moon → Unification Church beliefs about Heung Jin Moon — article provides no pre-mortem information about Heung Jin Moon. After a short discussion of his death it concentrates on (i) UC doctrine about the significance of his death & (ii) claims of channeling of him from beyond the grave. As such, the article is not about Heung Jin Moon the person, but about UC beliefs about him. It is also intended that Black Heung Jin Nim be merged into this renamed article. — HrafnTalkStalk(P) 09:53, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

 * Oppose. Article names should be specific and short, but not ambiguous. Names of persons are normally just that, without a lengthy description in the title. It does not make any difference in naming the article what aspect of the person the article describes, or why there is an article about them. 199.125.109.102 (talk) 14:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge but don't rename Many articles on religious figures are mainly about other people's beliefs about them after the person's death. Should Saint Joseph be retitled "Christian beliefs about Saint Joseph"? Redddogg (talk) 14:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Strongly Oppose name change and Strongly Oppose merge. Heung Jin Moon is about Heung Jin Moon and beliefs about him. Per Redddogg, who hit the nail squarely on the head in saying "Many articles on religious figures are mainly about other people's beliefs about them after the person's death." Black Heung Jin Nim is about a phenomenon that occurred over a period of about a year which involved both beliefs about Heung Jin Moon and the actions of an African Unification Church member, and how the interaction of the two played out over the period. This particular phenomenon was covered heavily in the press, and was called "what some Unification Church members believe is the most momentous spiritual event in its 34-year history" by the Washington Post. Only one of the 6 sections of the Heung Jin Moon article deal with the Black Heung Jin Nim. -Exucmember (talk) 06:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

 * In response to Redddogg's comparison to Saint Joseph: (i) Joseph lived 2000 years ago, not 20 & (ii) even for him, we able to glean some pre-mortem information. So I don't find the comparison to be particularly apt. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 14:44, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Largely after-the-fact-discussion of the failed renaming proposal

 * Moved here from my talk page:

 * "No discussion"? READ THE BLOODY TALK PAGE!

 * Your claim of "no discussion" was WRONG . Likewise your claim that it was "ill-advised" is WRONG in that the only thing that the article actually says about Heung Jin Moon is that he died. The rest of the article is about Unification Church beliefs about Heung Jin Moon after he died. If you can't be bothered discussing the article, let alone find on-topic information on it (i.e. about Heung Jin Moon himself, not about UC beliefs about him), then you can hardly be surprised if others take things into their own hands. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 09:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

 * What I meant by "discussion" was two or more people talking about something. I did not consider one person proposing something (and acting on it before any response) a "discussion". -Exucmember (talk) 06:14, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

 *  GET A CLUE Get some slight understanding of the relevant facts and policy!  If you wanted "two or more people talking about something" then why didn't you discuss it yourself (instead of complaining after the fact)? "One person proposing something" and waiting two weeks for a response, and when they got none, going ahead is not unreasonable. I posted the proposal to talk, I waited a reasonable amount of time for comment, then I implemented it. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THAT? HrafnTalkStalk(P) 06:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Also Exucmember  GET A CLUE get some slight understanding about what section this belongs in. This material is not about the merger proposal -- so please cease and desist in attempting to place it within that section. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 07:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

 * For someone who has an incredible fondness for wikilawyering, I find your obvious violation of WP:CIVIL surprising. "In the event of rudeness or incivility on the part of another editor, it is usually appropriate to discuss the offending words with that editor, and to request that editor to change that specific wording." I suggest you remove the phrase. "Get a clue". I also find the trout reference offensive and inappropriate. It doesn't seem to contribute to the quality of the article. The opening of the move request was made after your comment on my talk page (also a borderline violation of WP:CIVIL), and after I reverted your move. You combined the two, not me. Perhaps we should separate it into two sections. -Exucmember (talk) 07:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Execumember your demand that there be "discussion" before the move, when you you could not be bothered discussing it yourself (in spite of more than two weeks being allowed for you to respond) renders the three word reasonable response(per WP:SPADE). As you are so thin-skinned as to object to this, then I'll comply with your demand to change them. Neither the "move request" nor my 'reverted move' are relevant to the Merger proposal in the section above, so please STOP trying to merge this material into that section. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 07:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

[Edit conflict] In response to this edit, that the "comment had directly to do with the renaming" is irrelevant as the 'Merger proposal' section IS NOT ABOUT THE RENAMING! HrafnTalkStalk(P) 07:38, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Objection to emphasis on significance as religious figure
I moved this template (below) from the article page, as it seems to me an inappropriate objection to an article about a religious figure. The issue can be discussed here. -Exucmember (talk) 07:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

A "religious figure" with no information about activities PRIOR to death?
In this edit, Exucmember asserts that it is "inappropriate for an article about a religious figure" to have information on "anything AT ALL about Heung Jin Moon BEFORE his death". I would assert to the contrary that it would be very rare (and possibly otherwise unknown) for a religious figure to be known for nothing before they died. While beliefs about their lives (and deaths) may grow after their death, it is always their actions and teachings while alive that forms the core of their notability, and of beliefs about them. Where is this "core" in the case of Heung Jin Moon? HrafnTalkStalk(P) 07:26, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

As nobody has seen fit to attempt to rebut this point, I'm restoring the template. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 14:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

One united article
I suggest, and I hope Hrafn will agree, that we have one united article on Heung Jin Moon including all the material from the "Black Heung Jin Nim" episode, which I've gone ahead and renamed Return of Heung Jin Moon. I see considerable overlap, and in fact little more than overlap, between the two.

HJN's claim to fame is that after his death the church made a big fuss over him. This article and the spinoff are almost entirely about that fuss. I'll wait a week or two, and if there are no strong and reasonable objections, I plan to start doing the merge. --Uncle Ed (talk) 17:19, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Support merge. Both articles are really about the same thing. Besides which I have never heard an American member say "Black Heung Jin Nim."  I only heard this (maybe once) from an Asian church elder, after the incident was over. Steve Dufour (talk) 16:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge. They are about two different people. Cirt (talk) 18:44, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Both articles are really about a large number of people, Heung Jin Moon and Cleopas Kundioni being only two of them. Neither article is primarily about one or the other. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:58, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Merge The largest section of this article is about the incident covered in the other. Anything else in that article could be added here and nothing would be lost. Readers would be saved from having to read the same information twice. Borock (talk) 17:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I pasted the entire other article into this one. I will get back to it to remove duplicated material.Borock (talk) 03:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Here's what I had to say above, which is directly relevant to this proposal: The Black Heung Jin Nim is about a series of events, a chapter in the history of the Unification Church, considered by some to be among it's most important. For those on a crusade to delete as many Unification Church related articles as possible, a merge with Unification Church might make sense, but a merge with Heung Jin Moon makes no sense at all. -Exucmember (talk) 04:12, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Strongly Oppose merge. Heung Jin Moon is about Heung Jin Moon and beliefs about him. Per Redddogg, who hit the nail squarely on the head in saying "Many articles on religious figures are mainly about other people's beliefs about them after the person's death." Black Heung Jin Nim is about a phenomenon that occurred over a period of about a year which involved both beliefs about Heung Jin Moon and the actions of an African Unification Church member, and how the interaction of the two played out over the period. This particular phenomenon was covered heavily in the press, and was called "what some Unification Church members believe is the most momentous spiritual event in its 34-year history" by the Washington Post. Only one of the 6 sections of the Heung Jin Moon article deal with the Black Heung Jin Nim.
 * It seems to me that the "Black Heung Jin Nim" incident is a part of the larger Unification Church beliefs in him. However I see that there is no consensus so if you want to go ahead and undue the merge I will not object. Borock (talk) 05:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I just checked out this article and Black Heung Jin Nim. There is a section there that pretty much duplicates this article. Why not just merge the two together, rather than giving the same information twice? Borock (talk) 14:45, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Support: per WP:MERGE rationales "2. Overlap" (see Borock above) & "4. Context" -- Heung Jin Moon is mainly notable because of beliefs Unificationists have about Black Heung Jin Nim channelling him -- therefore it is best if he is treated in that context. <span style="font-family:Antiqua, serif;">HrafnTalkStalk(P) 15:12, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Support The merge makes sense to me. The other article gives much the same information as the section in this one. Any extra added here would not be a problem. Then no information would be lost and readers would not have to read the same material twice, or go to two different places for background. Kitfoxxe (talk) 15:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I've added the text from the other article here without removing anything, as called for by WP merge policy. Later the duplications can be taken care of. Borock (talk) 21:17, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite intro
I am going to rewrite the introduction so that it sums up all the material that is in the article, as WP policy suggests. Borock (talk) 12:28, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Fringe view removed
I took out the sentence about one reporter quoting one church member's opinion. I have never heard anyone else say this. Wolfview (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Heung Jin Moon


text:
User:Thelonewanker

Thelonewanker is a one man, traveling philosopher. He is apt to criticize others while keeping his private life very private. In his free time he likes to read, study history, smoke cigarettes and watch vintage movies.

title: User:Thelonewanker


text:
Fred Neil

Fred Neil (March 16, 1936 – July 7, 2001) was an American folk singer-songwriter active in the 1960s and early 1970s. He did not achieve commercial success as a performer and is mainly known through other people's recordings of his material – particularly "Everybody's Talkin ' ", which became a hit for Harry Nilsson after it was used in the film Midnight Cowboy in 1969. Though highly regarded by contemporary folk singers, he was reluctant to tour and spent much of the last 30 years of his life assisting with the preservation of dolphins.

Life and career
Fred Neil was born Frederick Ralph Morlock Jr., in Cleveland, Ohio, just two weeks after his parents, Frederick Ralph Morlock and Lura Camp Riggs, married. Neil later said that he took his stage name from his maternal grandmother, Addie Neill, the family member of whom he was fondest. While they lived in Ohio, his father installed sound systems for the Automatic Musical Instrument Distribution Company (AMI), which made player pianos and, later, jukeboxes, and then worked for the Triangle Music Company, distributor of Aireon jukeboxes. In 1942, the Morlock family moved to St. Petersburg, Florida, where young Fred started singing when he was in first grade, coached by his mother, she claimed. Around 1947, when in sixth grade, he started playing guitar. His parents had separated in 1945, divorcing in 1949, and his father returned to Cleveland.

In 1955, at the end of two years of military service in the navy, Fred Morlock married Leilani Lee Michaels, a "Fran Malione Dancer" in San Francisco, a "photographers' model," and later a beauty-pageant queen and "Geary Girl." They lived with Fred's mother in St. Petersburg, and separated a year later. In August 1958, in New York, Neil married Elaine Berman after she became pregnant with their son, Kenny. She had worked at Grey Advertising until her pregnancy compelled her to quit her job. Faced with the costs of family life, she worked as a secretary at Southern Music Publishing, while Neil wrote songs and performed. They separated in 1960. (In 1965, she married Tony Orlando.) In 1963, Neil and Linda Watson started living together, in Miami, and in time they married, having a son, Christopher. Their marriage ended in 1968. When Neil moved to Woodstock, New York, in 1969, he met and married Judy Cruickshank, and they lived in a cabin in Saugerties, NY on the same road as Big Pink, home of Rick Danko and other members of The Band. Judy and Fred Neil had two sons, Justin and Tyson Neil.

In the late 1950s, Neil was one of the singer-songwriters who worked out of New York City's Brill Building, a center for music industry offices and professional songwriters. While composing at the Brill Building for other artists, Neil also recorded six mostly rockabilly-pop singles for different labels as a solo artist. He wrote songs that were recorded by early rock and roll artists, such as Buddy Holly ("Come Back Baby" 1958, co-credited to Holly's producer, Norman Petty) and Roy Orbison ("Candy Man" 1961, co-written with Beverly Ross).

With his 12-string guitar and spectacularly deep baritone voice, Neil was considered the King of the MacDougal Street/Greenwich Village folksingers. With Lou Gossett, starting in February 1961 he co-hosted an afternoon hootenanny at Cafe Wha?. Bob Dylan recalled that when he arrived at the Village, he was advised to seek Neil there, and, when he did, Neil invited Dylan to join him on stage. Photos from July 20, 1961, depict Neil, Karen Dalton, Mark Spoelstra, and an unidentified conga player, with Dylan on harmonica. In addition to Dalton, early on Neil also performed alongside Dino Valenti. Neil met Vince Martin in 1962, and they formed a singing partnership; his first LP, Tear Down The Walls (1964) was recorded with Martin. A New Yorker, Martin had relocated to Florida in 1960, and soon settled in Coconut Grove, where Neil followed him after their initial musical meeting, and where he returned regularly for years after. During 1965 and 1966 Neil was joined on many live sets by the Seventh Sons, a trio led by Buzzy Linhart on guitar and vibes. Neil released Bleecker & MacDougal on Elektra Records in 1965, reissued in 1970 as A Little Bit of Rain. His album Fred Neil, released in 1967, relaunched in 1969 as Everybody's Talkin', was recorded during his residencies in Greenwich Village and Coconut Grove, with one session taking place in Los Angeles.

After "Everybody's Talkin, Neil's best-known songs are "Other Side of This Life", covered by The Lovin' Spoonful on their debut album, Do You Believe in Magic and Jefferson Airplane on their live album Bless Its Pointed Little Head; and "The Dolphins", which was later recorded by several artists, including Linda Ronstadt, It's a Beautiful Day, The The, Billy Bragg, Beth Orton, and Tim Buckley. In particular, Jefferson Airplane considered Neil a major influence, and he was a frequent visitor to their Haight-Ashbury house at 2400 Fulton Street in San Francisco. Neil reminded Grace Slick of Winnie the Pooh, and her nickname for him was "Poohneil". The minor Airplane hit "The Ballad of You and Me and Pooneil" was written for Neil. Sebastian's song "Coconut Grove" from the album Hums of the Lovin' Spoonful was a tribute to Neil.

Blues and folk singer Lisa Kindred credits Neil with being her mentor in the early 1960s.

Interested in dolphins since the mid-1960s, when he began visiting the Miami Seaquarium, Neil, with Ric O'Barry, founded the Dolphin Research Project in 1970, an organization dedicated to stopping the capture, trafficking and exploitation of dolphins worldwide. Increasingly involved in that pursuit, Neil progressively disappeared from the recording studio and live performance, with only occasional performances in the rest of the 1970s.

Later life and death
Neil left Woodstock in the mid-1970s and spent his remaining decades on the shores of southern Florida, involved in the Dolphin Project. After a guest appearance with Stephen Stills at New York City's Madison Square Garden in 1971, Neil began a long retirement, performing in public mostly at gigs for the Dolphin Project in Coconut Grove. He performed with John Sebastian on harmonica, Harvey Brooks on bass, and Peter Childs on guitar at the Montreux Jazz Festival in July 1975. Michael Lang, one of the organizers of the 1969 Woodstock Festival and a habitué of Coconut Grove in the 1970s, tried unsuccessfully to release this as a live LP. In an ensemble called the Rolling Coconut Revue, which included Sebastian, Brooks, Childs, and pianist Richard Bell, Neil played at the Save the Whales benefit concert in Tokyo, April 8–10, 1977. Neil's last public performance was in 1981, at an outdoor concert at the Old Grove Pub in Coconut Grove, where he joined Buzzy Linhart for one song and stayed onstage for the rest of the set.

Many of Neil's 1970s recordings remain unissued, including a 1973 session with Quicksilver Messenger Service guitarist John Cipollina and some Woodstock recordings with guitarist Arlen Roth. According to Ric O'Barry, Neil recorded two albums of cover songs in 1977 and 1978 that Columbia Records did not release. O'Barry said he produced the first of the recordings in Miami, and that Neil was joined by Pete Childs on guitar, John Sebastian on harmonica, and Harvey Brooks on bass. The second album was more fully arranged, with Neil accompanied by the New York session band Stuff and some old friends, including Slick Aguilar. The songs on these albums were written by Bobby Charles, John Braheny, Bobby Ingram, Billy Joe Shaver, and Billy Roberts (composer of "Hey Joe").

Through the 1980s, Neil retreated from music and public life, living in Florida. In June 1987, in Miami, he was involved in an accident that killed Christine Purcell, his girlfriend, when she hotwired her camper truck, which had a defective starter, and called for Neil to start the vehicle. Apparently she had not put it fully into neutral or set a parking brake, and the wheels ran over her, causing "massive blunt trauma". Afterward, Neil moved from Coconut Grove, visiting New York, travelling to Mexico and Texas, then, by the early 1990s, relocating to coastal Oregon. In 1996, he returned east, to the Florida Keys. In 1998, he remarked on a sore on his face that he claimed was a spider bite. It was the first sign of a later-diagnosed squamous-cell carcinoma, for which he received radiation treatment and surgery. The cancer returned in 2001, and he was scheduled to begin chemotherapy on July 16, but he was found dead on July 7. He was reported to have died of natural causes, and to have left a written will on his nightstand.

Legacy
Neil gained public recognition in 1969, when Nilsson's recording of "Everybody's Talkin ' " was featured in the film Midnight Cowboy; the song became a hit and won a Grammy Award.

He was one of the pioneers of the folk rock and singer-songwriter musical genres, his most prominent musical descendants being Tim Buckley, Stephen Stills, David Crosby and Joni Mitchell. In Neil's obituary in Rolling Stone, Anthony DeCurtis wrote, "So why is Neil a hero to David Crosby? Because back when Crosby was an aspiring folkie who just arrived in New York, Neil bothered to take an interest in him, just as he did for the young Bob Dylan, who backed Neil on harmonica at the Cafe Wha? in Greenwich Village. 'He taught me that everything was music,' Crosby says." His most frequently cited disciples are Karen Dalton, Tim Hardin, Dino Valenti, Vince Martin, Peter Stampfel of the avant-folk ensemble the Holy Modal Rounders, John Sebastian, Gram Parsons, Jerry Jeff Walker, Barry McGuire, and Paul Kantner (Jefferson Airplane). Some of Neil's early compositions were recorded by Buddy Holly and Roy Orbison. He played guitar on the demo version of Bobby Darin's 1958 hit "Dream Lover", and was a demo singer on a late-1950s Elvis Presley movie soundtrack session. He recorded "One Heart," a song by Doc Pomus and Scott Turner (misidentified by Neil biographer Peter Lee Neff as "Steve"). According to Turner, the song arrived in Los Angeles too late to be used in the film.

In his memoir, Richie Havens recalls first seeing Neil in a duo with Martin at Cafe Wha?, and that "Tear Down the Walls" was the first protest song he had heard in Greenwich Village, "the first to point me in a clear direction". He also remembers Neil and Valenti's version of Ray Charles's "What'd I Say?" They would continue performing while making their way out the cafe's back door, then returning through the front, while keeping the song going. "I can still see and hear Neil and Valenti coming down that center aisle, raising the roof of the Wha?, 'tearing down the walls' that were keeping me from expressing what I needed to do."

Albums

 * 1964: Tear Down the Walls (Elektra) with Vince Martin
 * 1965: Bleecker & MacDougal (Elektra), reissued in 1970 as A Little Bit of Rain
 * 1966: Fred Neil (Capitol), reissued in 1969 as Everybody's Talkin'
 * 1967: Sessions (Capitol)
 * 1971: Other Side of This Life (Capitol), live and alternate versions

Compilations

 * 1986: The Very Best of Fred Neil (See for Miles)
 * 1998: The Many Sides of Fred Neil (Collectors' Choice)
 * 2003: Do You Ever Think of Me? (Rev-Ola)
 * 2004: The Sky Is Falling: The Complete Live Recordings 1965–1971 (Rev-Ola)
 * 2005: Echoes of My Mind: The Best of Fred Neil 1963–1971 (Raven)
 * 2008: Trav'lin' Man: The Early Singles (Fallout)

Anthologies including tracks by Neil

 * 1963: Hootenanny Live at the Bitter End (FM)
 * 1964: A Rootin" Tootin' Hootenanny (FM)
 * 1964: World of Folk Music (FM)

Selected songs

 * "Candy Man"
 * "Everybody's Talkin ' "
 * "Ba-di-da"
 * "Tear Down the Walls"
 * "The Dolphins"
 * "Green Rocky Road"
 * "The Other Side of This Life"
 * "Country Boy & Bleecker Street"
 * "That's the Bag I'm In"
 * "Blues on the Ceiling"
 * "Wild Child in a World of Trouble"
 * "FareTheeWell"
 * "Little Bit of Rain"

title: Fred Neil


text:
User talk:Bricaf

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Talk:Commando Order

Text from Kommandobefehl
Text taken from Kommandobefehl page before merge and redirect:

Kommandobefehl (German for Commando Order) was Adolf Hitler's order to execute all captured Allied Commandos in 1942.

In October 18, 1942 Adolf Hitler issued an order that all Commandos captured in Europe and Africa (but excluding seamen), should be immediately killed even if they attempted to surrender. Any man or small group of men with the uniform of Commando or similar unit would be turned over to the Sicherheitsdienst (SD or Nazi security service) for summary execution. He claimed that since Commandos were ordered not to take prisoners, (which was false), they would not be taken as prisoners, either.

Arguably, any members of resistance movements and partisan forces, the SOE, OSS and any belligerent not carrying arms openly or wearing a fixed distinctive emblem recognisable at a distance, (per Article 1, Chapter 1, Section 1 of the Annex to the Hague Convention II, 1899), are not covered by the terms of the Laws and Customs of War on Land and are liable to be regarded as a Franc-tireur or spy.

Generals like Erwin Rommel and Albrecht Kesselring did not obey the order but relied on the Geneva conventions.

Hitler later extended this treatment to captured Allied pilots, and the SD's role was taken over by the Gestapo.

Externals links
 * Full English translation of the order in http://www.nlc.net.au/~bernie/hitler.htm

I have merged what I thought was information which was not in the Command Order page but there may be more --Philip Baird Shearer 01:03, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page does not yet consider or include 'the Normandy exception' to this order. The exception and the text of the order were decrypted from German Enigma traffic and circulated on a limited basis to recipients of Ultra and MSS material. Copies of the English translation plaintext are held by the UK National Archives.132.185.144.122 08:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

ridiculous
I find it rather ridiculous that the Allies became so indignant about the Commando Order. It clearly states the reasons why commandos were executed (because they themselves didn't give a damn about the life of prisoners). --41.17.231.171 (talk) 17:25, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Maybe if you’d read it more carefully you’d have seen it wasn’t the Allies who were indignant, it was Hitler. As the order directly breached the Geneva convention, the Allied response was to try those responsible as war criminals. The indignant response would have been to execute any member of a unit which was accused of shooting prisoners; which is what Hitler prescribed. Xyl 54 (talk) 14:41, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

 * As someone already said: "Arguably, any members of resistance movements and partisan forces, the SOE, OSS and any belligerent not carrying arms openly or wearing a fixed distinctive emblem recognisable at a distance, (per Article 1, Chapter 1, Section 1 of the Annex to the Hague Convention II, 1899), are not covered by the terms of the Laws and Customs of War on Land and are liable to be regarded as a Franc-tireur or spy." This should be noted in the article since it gives a reasonable justification of the order. Overall the article appears biased to me, suffering under the nürnberg trials desease of victors justice and the article appears like a constant excuse for allied warcrimes. The most important info gathered in the british documents from the dieppe raid was, that prisoners of war should only be kept alive to a reasonable degree. Basically this means, that if you have taken prisoners as a commando, but you need every man for the operation, you better kill them. Once more, the article lacks this information. Last but not least, the execution of the german prisoners is described as an act of self defense, since they "had freed their hands". The dead were said to be found with their hands tied, one of them stabbed. Even though the nazis used propaganda, the same is to be applied on the allies. There is no source at all in the article, that backs up the excuse from the commandos to kill the prisoners. The only possible source that the allies would have would be the commandos itself and if a warcrime would have happened, it is very unlikely that the warcriminals would report it as it was. It is even to be expected due to the dieppe documents, that this was in accordance to the general orders of the allied command. Therefor it appears extremely unlikely, that if ever something criminal would have happened, we would ever know it due to official allied sources. Once more the article leaves also this totally out but relies entirely on the explanation of the commandos, which makes it appear as a justified action. Last but not least i would even go so far to say, that it aint allowed to kill a criminal of war, as long as he is just yelling to alert his comrades but behaving peacefully. Common sense would tell us to shut this man up but same goes for treating commandos as they treat their victims and the geneva conventions arent based on common sense at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.98.196.81 (talk) 09:43, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

 * I agree that there is some bias in this article. The quote from the 1790s, for example, strikes me as irrelevant. It deals with executions of ordinary soldiers, not of commandos, whereas Hitler's order specifically draws a distinction between the two. But it is difficult to write this article completely objectively because we Wikipedia editors must stick to verifiable data, whether this is correct or not. The Nuremberg Trials have dominated post-war international law, so most sources we cite here will naturally take the Nuremberg findings (all of them) at face value. These sorts of articles will always pose a challenge to those of us who want to be as strictly objective as possible.NipsonAnomimata (talk) 13:46, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

 * The point is that British and Allied Commandos went into action wearing the uniform of recognised British forces, and were therefore easily recognised as lawful combatants, the excuse that they were acting as 'Franc-tireur or spy' is absurd. On the other hand Special Operations Executive (SOE) personnel knew that they were operating outside of the rules of war and were also aware that if captured they could expect no mercy - and indeed, most that were received none.

 * ... and the point about trying the responsible Nazis as 'war criminals' is that the 'Commando Order' went against the rules of war. It was illegal.

 * ... It was as illegal as the commandos murdering captured prisoners of war1.129.96.227 (talk)

 * If British forces at Dieppe had behaved the way alleged, then it was for the German authorities to make a protest through neutral channels - such as the Swiss - and then for the British authorities to investigate, and then, if necessary, subject the persons responsible to courts martial on charges of murder, not for the opposing side to invoke summary justice willy-nilly. You see, if whatever was alleged to have occurred at Dieppe did happen, then it certainly wasn't official British Government policy, it would have been entirely unauthorised and would almost certainly have been strongly reprimanded by persons higher up. That's the difference between a responsible democratic government, and the bunch of nutters that then governed Nazi Germany and who caused untold misery and suffering to millions, both in their own country, and abroad.

 * ... Germany made dozens of protests to the League of Nations about the tens of thousands of German civilians who had been murdered within the 'Polish Corridor' before the war. Noting was done. It was British Government policy (Churchill/Lord Cherwell) to deliberately carpet bomb civilians but were they too squeamish to murder a few captured enemy soldiers?1.129.96.227 (talk) 21:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

 * There is one - perhaps unspoken - international rule of war that, put simply, is this: If you start an aggressive war then anything bad that subsequently happens to you is your own fault. Trying to shift blame for your subsequent ills elsewhere is likely to fall on deaf ears. The Nuremberg Trials may or may not have been 'victor's justice' but that was the defendants' own fault for starting and actively supporting an illegal war in the first place. BTW, I didn't make those rules, I'm just telling you what they - more or less - were, and are.

 * ... Hitler did all he could to prevent an aggressive war. He made numerous offers of peace both before the war and after it started. Poland, with the world's largest military (1.7 million troops) attacked and invaded Germany, as its military had repeatedly threatened to do, after Poland had earlier in March 1939 attacked Czechoslovakia. Britain and France had encouraged Poland to reject any peaceful alternatives offered by Germany. (The British empire was 66 times the size of Germany at the start of the war - who was trying to take over the world?)1.129.96.227 (talk) 21:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

 * The 'Commando Order' was issued simply out of childish spite. That's why the persons responsible were tried at Nuremberg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.205.73 (talk) 11:15, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

 * ... Study the Nuremberg trials. They were a travesty of justice. Today, the people who conducted the trials would be disbarred from legal practice or convicted of criminal offenses. (e.g. After the accused spotted his supposed deceased victim, prosecutor Kirschbaum stated "How can we bring this pig to the gallows for murdering your brother if you are so stupid as to bring your brother into this courtroom?!")1.129.96.227 (talk) 21:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

 * You may not like the result of the Nuremberg Trials but there were many who, after the discovery of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, just wanted all the accused summarily shot. Which is possibly what those accused would have done to them if the positions had been reversed, and the Nazis had won. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.53.190 (talk) 17:20, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree. The commandos murdered all surrendered Germans they could find. It was only fair that the Germans responded in kind. 80.213.23.48 (talk) 17:12, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Comment
I don't know what a Commando order is. Why doesn't the first few sentences of this article explain the meaning of the term and its significance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.139.190.35 (talk) 16:29, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I’ve re-arranged the text in the introduction to remedy this. Xyl 54 (talk) 14:19, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * PS I've also asked for a citation; was Runstedt’s instruction ever even called a Commando Order? Xyl 54 (talk) 14:28, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Western vs. Eastern Front
I'm curious why this order was seen as so extreme (by Western Allies along with Germany) when German troops regularly killed millions of Soviet P.O.W.s. I think the number I've seen was that 2.5 million Soviet P.O.W.s, that is soldiers who had surrendered, were killed (and it wasn't just due to malnutrition and disease). A section contrasting the treatment of U.S./UK/Canadian P.O.W.s vs. Soviet ones would really help put this "Commando Order" into context of how Germany treated Prisoners of War from different countries. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

The world was told that 840,000 Russian soldiers had bee killed by the pedal operated brain-bashing machine of Sachsen hausen (Australian newspapers covered this issue in the 1960s) and were cremated in nine portable ovens. Actually, they merely joined the German army and were posted to other regions - Stalin would not have been happy with them. When the US Army captured German soldiers at Normandy they discovered that a sixth were Russians.1.129.96.227 (talk) 20:47, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

 * Neither the Soviet Union nor Japan were signatories of the relevant Geneva Conventions, so the treatment of prisoners on these fronts wasn't actually illegal nor could be tried under contraventions of the relevant Geneva Conventions. Although Germany had signed the Conventions - as had all the Western Allies - the Nazi government didn't feel that the conditions on treatment of prisoners of war applied to the Soviets, as the Soviets had never signed the conventions, so the Nazis decided they had no legal obligation to adhere to them when it came to treatment of Soviet prisoners. Pre-revolutionary Russia had signed IIRC, the Geneva Conventions, but the subsequent revolutionary government under Lenin in 1917 had declared that all previous agreements and treaties between Imperial Russia and other countries were from then on null-and-void, so that effectively meant the new Soviet Union was no longer a signatory.

The Jewish German General von Manstein (one of 171 Jewish high ranking Jewish German officers) gave a speech to soldiers stating that the Russians were to be treated with respect1.129.96.227 (talk)

 * The Nazi ideology also regarded the Eastern peoples as 'sub-human' and that they therefore did not deserve to be treated in the same manner as the Western Allies, who - for the most part - were regarded as 'aryan'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.24.205.73 (talk) 13:05, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well... Even Hitler himself suggested that German soldiers in the east could marry local Ukrainian girls after the war. And don't forget that Japan was a very close ally - a nation that was met with extreme racism from the US and Britain, calling them "yellow monkeys" - but not from Germany. 80.213.23.48 (talk) 17:20, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

The term 'Aryan' was interchanged with the term 'civilized'. People of different races could be described as Aryan or not, depending on their level of civilisation.1.129.96.227 (talk) 20:47, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, their was indeed no blanket dehumanization, not even sub-humanization of "Eastern people". It helps to read the source texts on those issues. And also take note of the fact that many "Eastern people" did actually become part of German forces during world war 2 for a number of reasons. 105.15.200.201 (talk) 20:04, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

LEGAL status of "Commandos"
Okay, first, professionally, you should provide an overview of the then contemporary understanding of military law regarding "commandos" and for intellectual coherence the modern understanding of the "judicial" stature of "commandos"...

As it is, the article simply seems to be implying Hitler is merely enforcing a countermeasure against an initial aggressive perfidy on the part of the Commandos...

If the Commandos are not saboteurs or "unlawful combatants", the article needs to make this pellucid and crystal-clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.52.186.148 (talk) 07:32, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Legal status alone is not everything. One must also keep in mind that commandos would execute prisoners, as they did in Norway, not being able to take them along. It was basically a tit-for-tat-order in response to this. You reap what you sow. 80.213.23.48 (talk) 17:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Trying to whitewash war and murder is usually silly; The whole 'being out of uniform being worse than in uniform part' is weird and morally backwards, especially since most men in the military have always been conscripts, so essentially kidnapped and forced one way or another to be there. Psycho crutch for tribal psychos. 10:21, 20 December 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gendalv (talk • contribs)

External links modified
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No mention of throats cut.
As I recall the issue, Hitler gave his 'commando order' because commandos had captured some German Soldiers on the Channel Island of Sark, and cut their throats before leaving.

Regarding 'war crimes', we should remember that the allies committed no 'war crimes' during the war.

Everything the Germans did was a war crime (e.g. Eichmann's job (like his father) was to organize railway timetables). Nothing the allies did was a war crime, even if it was identical or far worse that anything the Germans did.1.129.96.227 (talk) 20:33, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Nuremberg
Should we believe, according to accusations recorded during the Nuremberg trials that Germany committed the Katyn murders, killed 20,000 people with an atomic bomb and killed 840,000 Russian soldiers with a pedal-powered brain bashing machine, turned people into lampshades and shrunken heads etc...etc?

Prosecutor Kirschbaum to his client, Einstein: "How can we bring this pig (Mendel?) to the gallows for murdering your brother if you are so stupid as to bring your brother into this courtroom?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.129.96.71 (talk) 21:47, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Killings and murder but not the Commando Order
This article is quite good but it strays from the topic. At Churchill's instigation two new distinct organisations were set up, one was Special Operations Executive (SOE) the other the British Commandos. Members of MI6 and SOE and later their American equivalents were executed in line with the laws of war, the Commando Order did not change what members of those organisations knew would probably happen to them if captured. So references to those organisations and the Commando Order should be removed. For example F. F. E. Yeo-Thomas (the white rabbit) was a member of SOE what was done to him had nothing to do with the Commando Order.

Downed airmen and possibly some sailors who as POWs were murdered were not murdered because of the Commando Order and should be removed from the list that has been added to this article. Escaped POWs who were not commandos and were shot were probably murdered (it depends on what they were doing once the escaped), but for example it is generally held that the killing of the men who were captured during the Great Escape were murdered, but it had nothing to do with the Commando Order.

The Commandos and Special Forces such as the SAS, if captured in uniform were according to the Commando Order were libel to be executed and frequently were. It is these instances that should be the focus of this article, all the rest is of topic fluff and should be removed ("Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information").

One last point that needs clarification. F. F. E. Yeo-Thomas testified at the trial of Otto Skorzeny at the Dachau trials, which led to the finding that to operate in enemy's uniform behind enemy lines is not perfidy and so not a war crime but a legitimate  ruse de guerre (Like a ship flying false colours) providing that soldiers remove the enemy's uniform before engaging in hostilities (shooting). However during World War II during the battle of the Bulge some of Skorzeny's men were executed by the Americans for wearing US Army uniforms, I do not know if all of them had been engaged in hostilities before being captured, so this was a legal point not settled under international law until after World War II.

-- PBS (talk) 17:54, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

 * Rather belatedly, on the flip side of this, shouldn't the killings after Operation Checkmate be included on this list? They seem to meet the criteria. HornetMike (talk) 20:07, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Used car link
The external link inthis text...

Nuremberg Military Tribunal: Translation of Document 498-PS. Prosecution Exhibit 124

...goes to an automobile site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:777C:C750:314C:4D68:FED6:3461 (talk) 02:45, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reporting this - I've removed the link. Nick-D (talk) 09:23, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Commando Order