text:
Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Picture

This archive is about the inclusion of Baha'u'llah's picture on the Baha'i page. Below is the discussion which resulted in a vote. The result was 11-0 against (although some editors refrained from voting), and including the picture on the page can be considered vandalism now until further discussion occurs. The vote included 4 or so "neutral parties". -- Tomhab 22:39, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Baha'u'llah's picture in this article
This article is on the Baha'i Faith and is not on Baha'u'llah. His picture is on that page, and given that other religious pages such as Islam, Christianity, Hinduism do not have pictures (or drawings) of the main prophet, but instead have other pictures, I think that the picture of Baha'u'llah should be removed. I was going to leave the picture up (PaulHammond took it down) until we could have some sort of consensus and not just blind/reasonless deletes. So before we make any more changes, either picture up or picture down, let us discuss it here? -- Jeff3000 20:26, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * I've already got firefox to block all images from wikipedia over this issue... As I've said somewhere above I think we should just gut everything thats not to do with what Baha'is are all about (which is what this page should have) and make a new article about it. Namely the whole history section, but also whatever else turns up. Actually I'd do it now except I don't know enough about wikipedia.

 * As for the image itself, I'd really like people to put a link up in every place it turns up (like the Baha'u'llah page) as any Baha'is (must make up a fair amount of the people visiting the page) might be offended by it. -- Tomhab 20:41, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'm willing to debate it here, but can people stop adding it back while we talk about it? PaulHammond 21:06, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

Martin2000, can you please comment on the talk pages why you think the picture should be in the Baha'i Faith page given the comments that above that the Baha'i Faith article is about the Baha'i Faith and not on the founder, and that all other religious pages don't have pictures (or drawings) of their founders. -- Jeff3000 21:12, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

User Martin2000
This user appears to be an identity created on 14th Jan whose only reason for being is to upload Baha'u'llah's picture and add it to this article and the one on Baha'u'llah. here is his entire list of contributions to Wikipedia. I think Baha'u'llah's image ought to be removed from the Wikipedia database. PaulHammond 21:23, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Even one tiny contribution to a Wiki project is welcome. Obviously you have not read the rules.  You must know that this project is not sponsored by any Bahai organization or the Bahai "Universal House of Justice".  Yes I have (so far) only contributed to the Bahis articles, but that is because I have specialty on this subject. Bahaullah's picture belongs to this article and if you dislike the way he looks, I am sorry, there's not much we can do about it. Martin2000 21:32, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * everybody knows this is not a bahai sponsored project, and this has nothing to do with the way the photo looks, the =>POINT<= is, as been said before, "This article is on the Baha'i Faith and is not on Baha'u'llah. His picture is on that page, and given that other religious pages such as Islam, Christianity, Hinduism do not have pictures (or drawings) of the main prophet, but instead have other pictures" , also : "until we could have some sort of consensus and not just blind/reasonless deletes. So before we make any more changes, either picture up or picture down, let us discuss it here?" - --Cyprus2k1 21:49, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Martin, you clearly have some kind of axe to grind. Your edits are far from NPOV. Wikipedia isn't a place for you to indulge your quarrels with a religion you dislike. If you've just put the picture back, I will leave it. If you have removed my edits to the article as well, I will revert. Please don't remove the work I did on the text, however minor you think it. PaulHammond 21:45, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Nope, I am just interested in contributing to a subject in which I have accurate, detailed, and correct information. If you like to paint a rosy and romantic picutre of Bahaism, and certain facts ruin this picture for you, don't blame those who state the facts.  In other words, don't shoot the messenger.  I am simply stating some facts.  Also, going to multiple people's personal pages and knocking on every door trying to portray me as some sort of evil character just because I have contributed FACTS AND CORRECT INFORMATION to Bahai-related articles, is not a good idea, there are good chances that it will backfire on you.  Martin2000 22:26, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * And can you kindly tell me how is putting a picture of Bhalullah in an article about the religion which he introduced "far from NPOV"?! I must be missing something, I am sure. Martin2000 22:48, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You created this user-name precisely for the purpose of putting Baha'u'llah's photograph on this page. You have made no other edits on Wikipedia, except for uploading his picture, putting it here, reverting anyone who takes the picture down, and arguing for having the picture on the talk pages of these two articles. I am certain that you are well aware of the offence publishing Baha'u'llah's image causes to Baha'is, and that your whole intention in coming to Wikipedia was to cause such offence, for whatever personal reasons you have. The whole pattern of your behaviour here shows that your edits violate NPOV policy. That is what I mean. PaulHammond 02:20, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * Martin2000, I don't dispute your facts. Yes, Baha'u'llah married his third wife, after he became a Babi in apparent contradiction to his Babi belief system, and his later laws written in the Kitab-i-Aqdas.  This contradiction should be in wikipedia, and the only question is where to put it.  Given the way other religious faiths are organized, I would recommend, as I have written done above, that the place that makes the most sense is the Baha'u'llah article.  I give the example of Muhammad (PBUH) and his marriages Muhammad's marriages which is linked to by Muhammad's (PBUH) article. As stated in that article, some people either attack Him because he had more wives than the Qu'ran says is possible.  Some muslim scholare then argue back that the Qu'ran clearly states that Muhammad (PBUH) in the Qu'ran was allowed to keep his wives, and then others attack back that that Muhammad (PBUH) was giving himself more benefits that his followers.  Regardless of whom you think is right in that disagreement, the page is written in a way that presents both points of view.  In the same way I think that the information should be in Wikipedia, and since the Baha'u'llah article is not too large, we don't need to make a whole new article about his marriages, but include it in that article.

 * As for the picture, again, I believe, following the reference of other religious pages, which don't contain pictures or drawings of the main personages, should be left in the Baha'u'llah page. -- Jeff3000 22:42, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * The reason there is no picture of Moses, Jesus or Muhammed is because, I think, the photographic camera was not invented back then! So any "pictures" of them would be just an imaginary rendering of some artist.  But the case of Bahaullah is quite different, the photo is from his own passport, and a photo of a prophet of a religion certainly does belong to an article about that religion.  Martin2000 22:48, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Take Scientology, the picture of L. Hubbard is not in the article. Take Mormon, Joseph Smith's picture does not appear there.  The point is that the article is on the religion, not on the person.  -- Jeff3000 23:24, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * I have no knowledge of those religions. But if they are religions and they have prophets and their prophets have a photo, I cannot imagine why the photos should not appear in a Wikipedia article about those religions.  I cannot comment about Sciontology and Mormonism, since I barely even know their names.  But I know a few things about Bahaism.  Martin2000 04:46, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * This page has been locked because of this argument. Tread carefully Martin2000 as I'm sure this talk page is now being monitored by Wikipedia. -- Tomhab 22:39, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Baha'u'llah's photo
Hello my Bahai friends. I asked the admin who had protected the page to unprotect it so that we can hopefully work this out in a civilized and intelligent way, without any need for jumping up and down, name calling, slandering or fretting, as a few people here seem to have displayed. I would like to incorporate the recent contributions of our protective friend PaulHammond along with the photo of Baha, into the article. If you can think of any additional data that needs to go into the article, please discuss them here first, so that we don't run into a revert war or other such unnecessatry conflicts. Thanks. Martin2000 04:58, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Hello Martin2000, I truly appreciate your gesture to work this out in the talk pages. In regards to the changes by PaulHammond (not including the photo), his changes are mostly just grammatical, except for the removing the statement "Faith; Bahá'u'lláh, however, remained the sole prophet of the Baha'i Faith."  I don't really mind if this stays in or out, it doesn't change a thing.  His grammatical corrections, should stay though.

 * As for the photo, I really believe that the Baha'u'llah article is the place for the photo if it should be anywhere. You state correctly that none of the world religions have a picture, because pictures did not exist during the time of their founders, so we have to find something that is more like the Baha'i Faith in regards to the time of its coming.  Scientology is an applied religious philosophy that is given religious rights in the United States.  Ron Hubbard founded it in the 1950's, and his photo is in the Ron Hubbard page.  Mormonism is an untraditional sect of Christianity (my own words since I can't come up with a better wordage, it's not intended to offend anyone).  Joseph Smith believes that he had contact with Jesus in the early 1820's and found another book of Jesus Christ, and thus he is the founder of mormonism.  His picture is not on the Mormonism page, but instead on his page.  Another recent religious movement is Rastafarianism from the 1930's, and it's main organizer, Marcus Mosiah Garvey has his photo on his page on not on the Rastafarianism page.

 * I think the main main spirit of the reasoning why Baha'u'llah's picture should not be in this article is that the Baha'i Faith article is on the Baha'i Faith and not it's founder. As has been mentioned above by many people, and to follow the template of the other religious movements, the history should be moved out into a seperate article anyways, so that the page, as other religious pages, can be on the beliefs of the religion.

 * In general, I just want to state that regardless of what the other Baha'i writers have written in these forums, I appreciate your bringing of certain truths into the Baha'i related articles; it helps Baha'is understand their own faith and realize why Baha'is believe in what they do. It is this Indepedent Investigation of Truth, one of the main principles of the Faith, that all Baha'is should go through before accepting.  For example, the reason why, I, myself, believe in Baha'u'llah regardless of his apparent breakage of the Babi laws on marriage is all the teachings that he brought that, I believe, are useful to humanity.  In one of his writings, the Kitab-i-Iqan, he writes that (I'm paraphrasing) that the ways of the prophets of God are sometimes contrary to that of what man wants, and this is not for us to understand why.  He particularly gives the example of Moses who murdered someone, but the teachings of Moses were divine nonetheless, as seen by Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith.

 * I hope you understand my reasoning, and help to make the Baha'i related pages a useful definitive source regardless of view, either for the Baha'is or against them. I am just asking that the information be placed in a logically correct place. -- Jeff3000 06:09, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

Hello Jeff. Thank you fro your smooth language. I have to be honest, it just seems like you Bahais almost get terrorized even at the thought of Bahaullah's picture. OK, granted, he is not good looking and presentable, but is he really *that* horrifying? I bet you anything if he looked like Abdul-Baha, you guys would have plastered his photo all over the place. If you think about this, this is actually a big insult to Bahaullah by the Bahais. Anyway, if this really makes you guys lose sleep at night we can forget about his photo in this article and keep it in his own article, but trust me, the Internet is growing and growing, and sooner or later, all such information will be universally avaiable. It would be a futile (and wrong) effort to try to do this sort of "damage control". I hope you will think about this.

As for Kitab-i-Iqan, he actually wrote it to prove and support the Bab's legitimacy -- Iqan means "certitude" and someone had raised doubts about the Bab's divinity, so Bahaullah wrote the book of Iqan or Certitude in that connection. I think that actually the process of writing that book is perhaps the single most contributing factor in making him believe that he could make claims of his own "divinity", which eventually lead to his claiming he was the "promised one"! The Bab's writings clearly imply that the "promised one" was to arrive in distant future, as in numerous occasions it advises the future kings (plural) how to behave, between now and the time of the arrival of "The One Whom God Will Manifest". It certainly doesn't seem like just 13 years later, this "manifestation of God" will appear in the same little area!

Finally, the way you guys behave, you disallow or discourage non-Bahai contributors to write honestly and frankly about this religion (which in my own opinion is actually a cult) and this is not healthy. Of course if someone is maliciously injecting misinformation into Bahai-related articles, that's one thing, but contribution of correct information about this "religion" should not be discouraged. You never know, it might even help some Bahais gain the ability and courage to examine their faith in a more honest and intelligent way. Martin2000 07:02, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * hi Martin2000, just a quick answer (time is short), we allow and even encourage non-Bahai contributors to contribute but the edits must be neutral,factually correct and in the right context. also when there is a dispute it should be first discussed in the talk page until a consesus is reached (as is common in wikipedia) and not just reverts wars with no reasoning behind as has happened...
 * also, on the photo, again it has nothing to do with how the photo looks but by reasons given avove (no time sorry)
 * about the Bab prophecy on the promissed one, thats a common attack that seems to confuse the prophecy given by Baha´u´llah on the next prophet and instead atribute it to the Bab.
 * i must say i really appreciate your change in atitude and decide to discuss things here in a true wikipedian spirit. thanks - --Cyprus2k1 07:45, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

No, there is no confusion. I have read the writings of both the Bab and Bahaullah extensively. I know what I am talking about on this subject. The Bab's writings clearly imply a distant future when it talks about the "Man Yozharullah". Bahaullah claimed to be the promised Yozharullah, and made it very clear that the next "manifestation of god" after himself will be at least one thousand years!! This was to prevent someone like himself hijacking his own establishment the way he hijacked the Babi movement. Martin2000 07:58, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * The matter of when the Man Yozharuhllah will come is a matter of interpretation. Some of the Bab's writings, which I include below say that the "Mon Yozharullah" will not come before the completion of nine years (either from the beginning of his dispensation, or after the writing of the Bayan, open to interpretation) and others say that he will come in the year of the Vahid (which is the number 19) after his declaration.  The Bab declared his mission in May 1844, and starting writing the Bayan in 1848.  19 years after the Bab's declaration, in 1863, Baha'u'llah declared that he was the one whom the Bab had prophesized.  People can claim that since Baha'u'llah knew of these statements in the Bab's writings he could have timed his claims; and thus this fact by itself is not enough to proove Baha'u'llah was the one whom God will make manifest and other things have to be investigated by each person individually to see if they believe in Baha'u'llah or not. Some people will believe, and some others will not.  Regardless of what we do, we should all respect everyone's belief and not judge anyone. -- Jeff3000 17:29, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * "In the year nine, ye shall attain unto all good"
 * "In the year nine, ye will attain unto the presence of God."
 * "Wait thou until nine will have elapsed from the time of the Bayán. Then exclaim: `Blessed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of Makers!'"
 * "The Lord of the Day of Reckoning will be manifested at the end of Vahíd and the beginning of eighty"
 * --Jeff3000 17:29, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * i would like to continue this discussion with you, however since wikipedia isnt the right place (not to mention we would be off-topic) can i invite you to a forum? :) - --Cyprus2k1 08:08, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * p.s after this i may or may not take some time to respond, since i will be quite busy today - --Cyprus2k1 08:08, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The discussion area of an article *is* a forum, a forum in which people discuss things before (or during) modifications to the respective article. I am not writing stuff here for the sake of the discussion page itself!! We don't have to include Baha's photo in this article, but we certainly need to make changes so that the article does not look like a Bahai promotional campaign advertisement. Martin2000 08:18, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I couldn't agree more. In fact, this is exactly the immediate impression I got upon reading this article the first time: religious promotionalism and advertisment.  I would be more than happy to be a contributing party to the collaborative effort to help this article out of its present sorry state of being a measly promotional pamphlet for some sort of self-proclaimed "new world religion".  --Amir 09:56, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * It is true that all Wikipedia articles need to have a bit of perspective in them so that they sound like encyclopedia articles, and not breathless worship from a fan's website. However, I think it is unfair to characterise this article in such a fashion.  This article has achieved featured article status, I think before any of us here started commenting.  The process of achieving that status can be seen through the archives and the history (as I recall from when I first came here, that process mostly happened around September/October last year).  When an article is suggested for featured status, a link appears on Featured_article_candidates, and many other editors come and have a look at it in order to vote on whether it should or should not achieve such status.  The consensus of those editors was that it did.  Comments such as yours above tend to belittle the contributions of the editors who worked on the article to make it a viable proposition for featured article status, and the judgements of those editors who voted to accept it as a featured article.  Featured articles are not made overnight, and I personally am very careful when editing an article that other wikipedians have judged deserving of that accolade.  PaulHammond 13:44, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * I just noticed that there is a link to the archived discussion on the vote for featured article status in the featured article boilerplate at the top of this talk page. (I couldn't find the subpage from the main candidate page because of the diacritical marks in its title.  PaulHammond 14:28, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * Feel free to suggest a neutral alternative if you feel the current version isn't. Cynical titles changes don't help the wikipedia project. -- Tomhab 12:38, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Baha'u'llah's photo: suggestion for compromise
Clearly, there is a person here who thinks that it is very important that Wikipedia readers can see the photo of Baha'u'llah that he has taken the trouble to upload to the database, and yet Baha'is find the casual display of Baha'u'llah's picture offensive, for reasons that have been explained above.

The guidelines for using offensive pictures at Image use policy state:

"11. Think carefully if offensive pictures are really necessary. Consider providing a link to the picture, and a warning of the picture's contents, rather than place it directly in the article. If you have concerns regarding the appropriateness of an image, discuss it on the relevant article talk page."

So, I suggest that we have no picture on this article, where the subject is Baha'u'llah's religion, not the person himself, and at Baha'u'llah there should be a non-displaying link to Baha'u'llah's passport photo fairly near the top of the article, probably with an explanation that Baha'is find casual display of Baha'u'llah's photo offensive, so that the start of Baha'u'llah would read something like:

Bahá'u'lláh (1817 - 1892) (Persian - Mírzá Husayn-'Alí (میرزا حسینعلی)) was the founder and prophet of the Bahá'í Faith. He was also known as Bahá'u'lláh ("The Glory of God" in Arabic), as "He Whom God will make manifest" (from the Báb's writings), and as "Father of the Poor".

Bahá'ís find casual display of Bahá'u'lláh's image disresptful/offensive, but a passport photograph of Bahá'u'lláh may be viewed [[Media:Bahaullah from miller.jpg|here]].

Bahá'u'lláh authored serveral religious works, including the Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Most Holy Book) and the Kitáb-i-Íqán (Book of Certitude). He died in Bahji, Palestine (outside 'Akká, Acre).

Obviously, we can work on the wording once we have some agreement here. I note that there appeared to be a consensus for no picture here and a link at Baha'u'llah forming before Martin's reverts of my edits led to my investigation of his edit history yesterday. - PaulHammond 13:23, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * The so-called "consensus" if there is one here, is only among you Bahais. I realize that somewhere else you claimed not to be a Bahai, however, a simple click on your ID and a quick perusal of your comments speaks volumes about your partiality. In fact, if you really aren't a Bahai, you have behaved even more partial than a fool-hardy Bahai -- I wonder why?  Anyhow, there is no such consensus here. I vote for Baha's pic to be included in the article.  --Amir 18:31, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Amir, I'm not making a call for votes here, I'm making a suggestion as to how we can work together to make this a better Wikipedia article. Like I say, we're meant to work towards agreement here. The Wikipedia policy is not to put up pictures that people might find offensive, but to put up a non-displaying link if the consensus is to put those pictures in. Do you have a problem with that being Wikipedia's policy for handling offensive images? Does Martin2000 have any comments about this as a potential way forward? PaulHammond 18:06, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

Vote: Should the Baha'u'llah picture be included on this page.
The page has been protected because admins believe that the Baha'u'llah picture is still under debate. Lets just finish this. Suggest no-one touches the picture (ie leave it up) until the vote completes. Giving this a vote will give any decision a bit more legitimacy. -- Tomhab 00:52, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Arguments
Please feel free to edit these sections and add other reasons.

Summary of arguments for including picture

 * Baha'u'llah started the religion and remains a very important part of it
 * The photograph is very informative
 * Baha'is attempt to censor the image as it is offensive for a picture of Baha'u'llah to be in public domain

Summary of arguments against including picture

 * Not a case of censorship, but of relevance
 * This page is primarily about the religion
 * The image is already included (and will remain included in some form) on Baha'u'llah
 * Christianity does not have any representation of Christ
 * Islam does not have any representation of Muhammad
 * Judaism does not have any representation of any of its Prophets
 * Scientology does not despite having one such photograph
 * Mormonism does not despite having one such photograph

Vote: Do not include --image of Baha'u'llah on page

 * 1) Image simply does not belong here -- Tomhab 00:52, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) No need for the image on this page. ~ Achilles 01:07, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Image is irrelevant to article. Take it down please. -- Ariadoss 18:57, 14 Feb 2005 (MST)
 * 4) irrelevant to the article. - --Cyprus2k1 09:43, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Not really needed here, but should definately appear on Baha'u'llah. violet/riga (t) 10:36, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 6) Not appropriate here. First because there is an article on Baha'u'llah, second because openly displayed images of Baha'u'llah offends Baha'is. Occamy 12:37, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 7) No picture.  See also /Request for Comment and /Picture.  We've been here before.  PaulHammond 12:38, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * 8) Irrelevant Brettz9 17:44, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 9) No Picture here, no picture anywhere. I'm a 4th generation Baha'i and to me and everyone I know seeing His picture is offensive and irreverent. --JS 004 18:53, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 10) No Picture I am a member of the Orthodox Baha'i Faith and we to find it disrepectful of our belief system to put up such a picture, and it appears it will stay up on the Baha'u'llah biography but I don't think it needs to be up on this article.-multiman
 * 11) I am the first to say that a picture of Mírzá Husayn-'Alí belongs on wikipedia. However, the precident states that said picture does not belong here. -- 23:37, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * 12) It is irreligious to display a picture of a Manifestation of God. Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.2.1.24 (talk) 03:30, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Comments
Please do not be discourteous. It is necessary to respect religion. The Baha'is, like Muslims, consider the image of the Prophet or manifestation of God to be sacred. It is irreligious to display it. This issue has not come up with Christ because photographs were not available. Janet Nattress March 23, 2024. It is not a simple common sense issue. It is one with religious precedence and involves respecting the character of religion.Period.

The image simply belongs to the article. It is an authentic photograph of Bahaullah and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the image. It is not porno, it is not violent, it is not offensive in any shape or form other than the fact that the way Bahaullah looks, you can print the photo and use it as a scarecrow at the gate of your farm -- and that is no reason to exclude it from a Wikipedia article about the cult which this man started. The Bahais here are working in concert to influence Wikipedia articles for their religious promotional purposes. In fact, why should a Wikipedia article be based on votes instead of solid facts? This is stupid. This image is not offensive in any shape or form and there is no excuse for taking a vote on this. For this reason, I refuse to participate in voting, but I will bring it up with senior Admins if you want to practice censorship based on some sneaky voting process that some Bahais with religious promotional agenda have started. --Amir 11:03, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Nice try, Amir. The fact is that casual display of Baha'u'llah's image simply is offensive to Baha'is - and it's got nothing to do with him "looking like Rasputin".  People have explained this to you over and over.  There's no excuse for your pretence of remaining ignorant of this fact.  PaulHammond 12:42, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * Senior admins have no more authority than I do (well arbcom does but I don't think you will get very far with them)Geni 12:10, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm a little lost how its sneaky especially as you've noticed the comments section but refusing to vote. All we're trying to be is reasonable. -- Tomhab

I don't like seeing Bahá'u'lláh's picture, even though I love Him. It is offensive because I have to be in a state of complete selflessness, like during a Bahá'í pilgrimage, before I can look at His Face. --JS 004 18:58, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * That is taken into account. The Baha'i situation seems somewhat unique (offends some, but not all), but many in wikipedia feel that any image, whether it causes offence or not is fair game. I feel the debate on Baha'u'llah will not be resolved until Wikipedia develops an offensive image policy (whatever that may resolve to be), but there is no reason for the picture being here except for Amir to get kicks out of pissing Baha'is off. -- Tomhab 19:52, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I really think it should not be there at all. Even if you don't seem to agree with it, Baha'is have a law that they must obey. It really has nothing to do with how he looks. Nor does it have to do with a state of reverance we must be in to see it. Shoghi Effendi was worried that the picture could turn into an object of worship, and would not allow it. -- 209.179.168.52

 * Just added 209.179.168.52's signature. May its because I'm a Baha'i bigot but I always get confused when people don't sign what they write :) -- Tomhab 17:08, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

take it off for the love of god - unsigned by 82.44.187.49, 26 October 2005

When i was reading this it made me cry because of some of the things that were being said about the Bahai Faith. I guess i have just never experienced religious prejudice pertaining to the faith before. I think that not putting the picture up would not affect anybody for the worse, while putting it up would offend quite a lot of Bahais. Love, a Bahai aged 14. - unsigned by 195.92.168.175, 11 February 2006

Are We Devotees?
I think it is strangely perverse that Wikipedia towed the "reverence" line for Baha'is.

Maybe THEY have a law that they 'must obey' (as if Baha'is really obey their own laws -- Ha!), but WIKIPEDIA is not constrained by 'Baha'i laws,' thank goodness.

But in reality, they actually do NOT have any such law. Indeed, there is no 'law' regarding pictures anywhere in their Book of Laws (Kitab-i-Aqdas), or in anywhere else. The Baha'i source material I've seen actually does allow for the phenomenon of Baha'is seeing photos of their founder.

Even if sincere in their pious claim that showing the photo is "irreverent," that can only be classified as a devotional nicety in the life of a religious devotee in this little sect. Isn't that obvious? We're supposed to miss out on seeing pics of this controversial religious founder so Baha'i's can get a better thrill when they go to Haifa, Israel and look at the picture there? Silly. The photo's "offensiveness" is only understood in the context of religious devotion or "reverence" for Baha'u'llah. We here are not by definition devotees of Baha'u'llah. We want to see the documentary picture! How can Wikipedia base a decision on religious reverence for Baha'u'llah?

Also, articles on Christianity, Islam, etc. are not in the same class as an article on this little known movement. The world knows a lot about these religions and their founders. These religions are also profoundly sectarian, so it is politic to avoid photos that might be favored by one sect but not another. The Baha'i Faith is relatively little known, and largely unsplintered. There is no popular awareness regarding it's founders as with Christianity and Islam. You would not believe how SMALL the Baha'i Faith is. Their membership numbers are grotesquely inflated. They are like a sieve. I know because I used to help cook their books.

The Baha'i Faith has nothing of the stature of Islam or Christianity. In terms of history and culture it is not even on the map next to them. It is comparatively arcane and unique. Must Wikipedia bend to be properly 'reverent' towards every little sect out there?

And why is it that photos of 'Abdu'l-Baha are used everywhere by Bahai's? He was one of the four 'Founders,' the son of Baha'u'llah, and his spiritual and temporal successor. He has a lofty "station" in their pantheon; is considered a Divine Institution. But Baha'is plaster his face all over the place. Why is it not an 'atrocity' for Baha'is to see photos of him all over the place?

Amir is right. It's all about Baha'i PR interests. The question is: Will Wikipedia allow itself to be a dupe for a religious promotional agenda? Or is Wikipedia a place to find complete documentary information? - unsigned by User:Mentious Jan 15, 2006

 * This conversation is being repeated on Talk:Bahá'u'lláh/Photo. Please refrain from posting the same thing on two different pages. Cuñado  [[image:Bahaitemplatestar.png|20px]] -  Talk  23:27, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Picture


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2100

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was withdrawn. This VFD was withdrawn due to the fact that 2100 was vandalized. -- AllyUnion (talk) 12:42, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

2100
Do we need this now? I would say no...Lectonar 12:12, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It used to be a redirect to 21st century - I've reverted it to that state. sjorford// 12:27, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks; didn't see that; vfd withdrawn Lectonar 12:34, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment - there are many individual years articles in Wikipedia going right up to individual years several centuries hence. You'd need to put a VfD on a lot of pages. If someone has an astronomical prediction to make for the year 2100, or if a piece of fiction takes place in that year, it makes it a valid article. See, for example 2525. 23skidoo 15:44, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * There aren't actually very many beyond 2100 - see User:Sjorford/Future years for a list. Most are redirects to non-year pages, and 2525 is one of the few exceptions. If there is any information for 2100 (and note that the recent update didn't add anything beyond "2100 is the last year of the 21st century"), then it can go on 21st century until there's enough to warrant a whole page. sjorford// 20:02, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Did you ever live near the Church Universal and Triumphant? They made predictions of the end of the world occurring in each of several years of the 1990s.  If you review enough science fiction, there are stories taking place in virtually every' future year for several thousand years.  Keeping an article on every year reference (rather than only the most intrinsically noteworthy) wouldn't be an efficient use of WP.  Barno 20:36, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Rubbish - delete -Brookie\talk

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2100


text: User talk:80.121.17.43

title: User talk:80.121.17.43


text:
3rd Carabiniers

The 3rd Carabiniers (Prince of Wales's Dragoon Guards) was a cavalry regiment of the British Army. It was formed in 1922 as part of a reduction in the army's cavalry by the amalgamation of the 3rd Dragoon Guards (Prince of Wales's) and the Carabiniers (6th Dragoon Guards), to form the 3rd/6th Dragoon Guards. It was renamed the 3rd Carabiniers (Prince of Wales's Dragoon Guards) in 1928 and amalgamated with the Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons), forming the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers and Greys) in 1971.

Inter-war
The regiment was formed in 1922 as part of a reduction in the army's cavalry by the amalgamation of the 3rd Dragoon Guards (Prince of Wales's) and the Carabiniers (6th Dragoon Guards), to form the 3rd/6th Dragoon Guards. Both regiments were based in India at the time of their amalgamation; the newly formed regiment departed in 1925 for Britain. It regained its carabinier association in 1928, when it was renamed the 3rd Carabiniers (Prince of Wales's Dragoon Guards).

The 3rd Carabiniers was posted to Sialkot in India in 1936 and began its mechanisation process, changing its horses for armoured vehicles, in 1938.

Second World War
When the war began in September 1939, the 3rd Carabiniers was still based in India. In 1941, a cadre from the regiment was used to form the 25th Dragoons, which saw service in Burma; it was disbanded in India in 1947.

Now equipped with the M3 Lee medium tank, the regiment was sent to North-East India with the 254th Indian Tank Brigade in December 1943. It took part in the Battle of Imphal, which began in late March 1944 after the Japanese launched the U-Go offensive. On 20 March, around Tamu, six of the regiment's tanks clashed with six Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go tanks, destroying five of them and capturing the other. Later, in the battle to retake Nunshigum Ridge on 13 April, tanks from the regiment's 'B' Squadron supported the 1/17th Dogras in fierce fighting that dislodged the Japanese defenders.

The 3rd Carabiniers, operating usually at squadron level or lower, took part in the successful advance deep into occupied Burma, taking part in (among others) an intense action at Kennedy Peak. Early 1945 saw the regiment engaged in fighting at Shwebo and Sagang; it took part in the capture of Ava and Mandalay in March, and later around the Irrawaddy River.

Post-World War II
After the war's official end in September, the regiment was based at Ahmednagar in India up until the British withdrawal. The regiment's departure came in January 1947, when it embarked aboard the Highland Princess at Bombay.

The 3rd Carabiniers was posted to the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) in West Germany in March 1952. The regiment was based in Osnabrück, remaining there until May 1959. After that, it moved to Catterick, England, but its stay there was short, as it joined the Strategic Reserve at Tidworth in July 1960. In July 1961, the regiment deployed its 'C' Squadron to Kuwait as part of a British force charged with deterring Iraq from fulfilling its threats to annex it. A return to West Germany came the following year, when it joined the 20th Armoured Brigade in Detmold.

Having been armed with tanks since the early 1950s, the regiment was re-roled to a reconnaissance unit in 1967, first operating the Ferret scout car. Deployments to the British military installations in Libya and Cyprus followed in 1968. A brief posting to Münster, West Germany took place in 1969 before moving to Herford, West Germany.

On 2 July 1971, the regiment amalgamated with the Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons), forming the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers and Greys).

Regimental museum
The regimental collection is held in the Cheshire Military Museum at Chester Castle. Some items are also held by the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards Museum at Edinburgh Castle.

Other information

 * Anniversaries: Nunshigum (13 April)
 * Alliances:
 * The Windsor Regiment (RCAC) — Canada (1951–1971)
 * Royal Natal Carbineers — South Africa (1922–1961)
 * Associated Yeomanry:
 * The Cheshire Yeomanry (Earl of Chester's)
 * The East Riding Yeomanry

Battle honours
The 3rd Carabiniers possessed a total of 62 battle honours, of which 49 were inherited from its predecessor units and were earned prior to the regiment's formation in 1922. During the Second World War, the amalgamated regiment received 13 battle honours. The full list of battle honours held by the regiment are:
 * Blenheim, Ramillies, Oudenarde, Malplaquet, Warburg, Beaumont, Willems, Talavera, Albuhera, Vittoria, Peninsula, Sevastopol, Delhi 1857, Abyssinia, Afghanistan 1879–80;
 * Second Boer War: Relief of Kimberley, Paardeberg, South Africa 1899–1902;
 * First World War: Retreat from Mons, Marne 1914, Aisne 1914, Messines 1914, Ypres 1914 '15, Arras 1917, Cambrai 1917 '18, Amiens, Hindenburg Line, France and Flanders 1914–18;
 * Second World War: Imphal, Tamu Road, Nunshigum, Bishenpur, Kanglatongbi, Kennedy Peak, Shwebo, Sagaing, Mandalay, Ava, Irrawaddy River, Yenangyaung 1945, Burma 1944–45.

Regimental Colonels
Colonels of the Regiment were:
 * 3rd/6th Dragoon Guards
 * 1922: Maj-Gen. Sir Nevill Maskelyne Smyth, VC, KCB
 * 1922: Maj-Gen. Henry Peregrine Leader, CB
 * 1925–1929: F.M. Sir William Robert Robertson, Bt, GCB, GCMG, GCVO, DSO

 * 3rd Carabiniers (Prince of Wales's Dragoon Guards) (1928)
 * 1929–1946: Gen. Sir George Alexander Weir, KCB, CMG, DSO
 * 1946–1957: Brig. William Thomas Gill, MC
 * 1957–1966: Brig. Joseph Russell Fishbourne, CBE
 * 1966–1971: Brig. William Charles Walker Sloan, CBE
 * 1971: Regiment amalgamated with The Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons) to form the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers and Greys)

title: 3rd Carabiniers


text:
Talk:Inion

Untitled
Has anyone ever heard of this before? Burschik 12:15, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Google didn't turn up any legitimate references to the inion being a kind of Central American onion used in Greek salad. I think that definition was probably a hoax. I have replaced the entire page with a stub containing a dictionary definition of "inion" as an anatomy term. Dr.frog 8 July 2005 13:31 (UTC)

Anatolian bump link
The chapter about "Anatolian bump" says the following An Anatolian bump is a protuberance on the back of the skull said to be related to Asian, Central-Asian & Melungeon ancestry, not to be confused with an external occipital protuberance. Currently, occipital protuberance is a disambiguation page leading to Internal occipital protuberance and External occipital protuberance - the latter is a redirect here. And, if one looks closer, the link would probably be External occipital protuberance anyway, which would then redirect here. Not the best possible solution... Maybe someone with knowledge how to classify medical articles can make this nicer. Tierlieb 14:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Small stub better presented on target page shall merge to external occipital protuberance --Iztwoz (talk) 06:14, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Inion


text:
Talk:Ilyushin DB-3

Old talk
It was me, jno, the owner of aviation.ru, who posted a direct quote!

Question left in nomenclature section
The question at the end of the Nomenclature section needs to be researched/verified. Fustigate314159 (talk) 22:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

TsKB-30 long distance flight from Moscow to North America
I don't have my refs with me, but it would seem to be a huge oversight that this epic 8000km flight is not given so much as a mention here. - NiD.29 (talk) 16:26, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ilyushin DB-3


text:
Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Request for Comment

Summary of the Dispute
People should read the discussion first. The contributor "summarizing" the dispute did not sign. I have added alternatives. Readers should refer to the extensive discussion of the topics in the archives. --Occamy 17:00, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Requesting for comment, part of that process is to include a summary of recent disputes

Bahá´u´lláh's picture
The latter two are added because of the offence caused to Bahá´ís by being confronted the by the image without warning.--Occamy 17:16, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Include it on this page since he is the founder of the Bahá´í Faith
 * Not including it because the best place for the photo is in the Bahá´u´lláh article
 * Move it to the very bottom of the Bahá´u´lláh article
 * Link the image

Comments about Bahá´u´lláh's wives

 * Include it because it's part of Bahá´u´lláh's history
 * Not include it because the best place for it is in the Bahá´u´lláh article

see #Changes based from comments from Neutral Observer - --Cyprus2k1 19:12, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Excommunications from the Faith of all the family of `Abdu'l-Bahá

 * Including because it is the truth
 * Including, but only Mirza Muhammad Ali, since there are no references for other excommunications
 * Referring to the subject in the "Covenant of Bahá´u´lláh and division" section
 * Moving the whole issue to a separate "Covenant of Bahá´u´lláh and division" article because the full answer requires voluminous use of Bahá´í Writings which would improperly take up much of the artcile's 32KB --Occamy 17:16, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Statement that it "turned out to hurt the entire Bahá´í movement in a much greater dimension"
Not at all clear what the proposer is proposing
 * Including because some people believe it hurt the Bahá´í movement
 * Not including because some other people don't believe it hurt the Bahá´í movement, and the growth of the Bahá´í Faith has increased since then.

Title of section (First, a sweet little promo)
Is this talking about the article or the discussion? If there is POV, the proposer should state where this occurs and Cite Sources, as explained in the Wikipedia guidelines copied above.--Occamy 17:16, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Including it because the first paragraph is too long and it sounds promotional for the Bahá´í Faith
 * Not including it because the statements in the first paragraph are true, and the title of the section seems to have a point of view

Anyone reviewing the history and discussion of this article (and that of Bahá´u´lláh) will see that those who vandalise the sites and/or try to attack the reputation of the Bahá´í Faith run a cyber mile when asked for reputable sources. --Occamy 17:24, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Request for Comment
I came here from the request for comment page. As a neutral party, I offer my comments on the above-summarized disputed points:
 * 1) Founder's picture: Doesn't appear on most religion pages, no compelling reason for it to be here.
 * 2) Wives: Islam does not discuss Muhammad's wives, Nation of Islam does not discuss Elijah Muhammad's; ditto for Mormonism and Joseph Smith. Should not be in there.
 * 3) Excommunications are relevant to the history of the movement, so they should be in there if there is a good reference for them.
 * 4) Statement "turned out to hurt..." is POV.
 * 5) Sweet little promo: It does sound a little hokey. Rename "geographic extent" to "statistics" and include the actual number of believers.  Since that's not huge, it'll make the paragraph more balanced.  Bacchiad 06:32, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Bacchiad for your comments. Should I wait for more comments from neutral observers, or go ahead with his suggestions. -- Jeff3000 17:50, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

Changes based from comments from Neutral Observer
The neutral observer who entered the discussion made some comments, including moving the section about the wives out, since the information is in the Bahá´u´lláh page, Martin2000, can you please provide some more reasons why it should be here. If we are in disagreement, maybe we should go to mediation. -- Jeff3000 04:06, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * Bahá´u´lláh is right at the very center and core of the Bahá´í Faith, and therefore, his life, including the fact that he had three wives at the same time, is very important and relevant to an article about the Bahá´í Faith. --Martin2000 05:54, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * since the article in about the religion it self, just a brief mention of the founder should be made and with a link to the founders article. the wives of the founder have to relevance to the religion article and are already metioned in the founders article. all other religious pages do not talk much about the history of their founder (especially with regards to family), and instead take it to the other pages . for example, the the Muhammad's marriages have their own page.

 * Hinduism: No history, no history of the founder
 * Zoroastrianism: History of where it was spread and how it declined. No history of the founder.
 * Islam: just pointers to the History of Islam and Muhammad, brief mention of Islam today.
 * Christianity: Link to History of Christianity and Jesus and then briefly (one paragraph) talks about who Jesus was (stating he was a descendent of Judah) and how he was persecuted. No mention of His mother Mary.
 * Buddhism: Large section on the Life of the Buddha (4 large paragraphs), one mention of his family "He decided to abandon his worldly life, leaving behind his wife and child"
 * Judaism: Gives history from Jacob to Moses to Samuel to David to Solomon. No mention of their family.

 * this has been twice in "dispute resolutions" and "Request for comments", this were the comments from the neutral observers:

 * "Bahá´u´lláh's wives and children - since this paragraph makes no mention of the religion itself (it's wholly biographical) it should be in article on the man rather than the faith. I recommend taking it out. - Raul654"

 * ""Wives: Islam does not discuss Muhammad's wives, Nation of Islam does not discuss Elijah Muhammad's; ditto for Mormonism and Joseph Smith. Should not be in there." - Jeff3000"

 * instead of removing the paragraph on the wives immediately, i await further comment.. - --Cyprus2k1 09:35, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baháʼí Faith/Request for Comment


text:
Talk:Buddy icon

Anonymous link spamming
I'm getting pretty fed up with 200.95.150.240's constant editing of an external link. He's been temporarily blocked once already, but hasn't bettered his ways. --Spug 12:17, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Expanding the article
I think a lot of info should be added to the article, because icon sites have become huge internet commnities, I'll do my best to add the types of buddy icons and other things in a short while The Nanto 10:20, 27 Aug 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, and will also do my best to contribute. :) June-gloom 11:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Buddy icon


text:
Talk:Generic Security Services Application Program Interface

List of GSSAPI implementations
I think the article would do well with a list of known GSSAPI implementors. I could find the following public ones: but who else? - DLeonard 04:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Heimdal,
 * MIT,
 * Globus ,
 * Shishi ,
 * SSPI (wire-compat only),
 * SAP ,
 * SAP is not a GSS-API implementation; it simply uses GSS-API SamHartman 21:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

As for mechanisms, Martin Rex in Nov 2004 wrote to kitten-at-ietf.org with this info: I was surprized how many independent (mostly proprietary) implementations of gssapi mechanism exist. I got to know then only because the vendors asked for interoperability certification of their product with our application. I don't know how many of them (if any) are or have ever participated in IETF activities. Here's a quick list of companies:

ietf mechanism:        Company (Country)

Kerberos 5            MIT, CyberSafe, CA/Platinum, Microsoft, heimdal SPKM                  Entrust (CA), Shym (US), Baltimore (US)

proprietary mechanisms:

AM-DCE                Bull (FR) (propr.)              Sagem (FR) sdti,rsakeon,trustnet TFS-Tech (SE) former RSA/SDTI safelayer             Safelayer (SP) NEC Secureware        NEC (JP) itsec                 UBS/ITsec (CH) Adnovum GSSv2         UBS/Adnovum (CH) ISign/secui           Penta Security Systems (South Korea) Sisler                Siemens India (India) cpro                  Mecomp (RU) lissi                 Lissi (RU) kobil                 Kobil GmbH (DE) T-Secure              secunet/Telekom (DE)

how many do you recognize?

Problems With the Article
I read the article and noticed several problems that I don't have time to work on now so I decided to document them.
 * I don't understand how RADIUSis a competing technology
 * I think the proper abbreviation is GSS-API not GSSAPI; see RFC 2743.
 * I'm not convinced that impersonationa is incompatible with IETF GSS-API. in particular  GSS-API does provide a credential delegation mechanism.  The only interisting thing behind impersonation is that you are able to tell the local OS to use the credential for everything including local access checks.  For every GSS-API operation you can use the delegated credential just as in Windows.  However you need a specific OS call to use that for local operations and that is in fact outside the scope of GSS-API.


text: Category:Drugs in sport

title: Category:Drugs in sport


text:
User talk:Henriquevicente

I agree to the edit counter opt-in terms

File:Dsc00501.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Dsc00501.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. – Quadell (talk) 13:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Henriquevicente


text:
R Coronae Borealis

R Coronae Borealis is a low-mass yellow supergiant star in the constellation of Corona Borealis. It is the prototype of the R Coronae Borealis variable of variable stars, which fade by several magnitudes at irregular intervals. R Coronae Borealis itself normally shines at approximately magnitude 6, just about visible to the naked eye, but at intervals of several months to many years fades to as faint as 15th magnitude. Over successive months it then gradually returns to its normal brightness, giving it the nickname "reverse nova", after the more common type of star which rapidly increases in brightness before fading.

Nomenclature
R Coronae Borealis is a faint naked eye star, but does not have any traditional names. Johann Bayer did not give it a Greek letter designation although it is marked on his map. John Flamsteed numbered all the Bayer stars but did not add any additional designations for fainter stars, so R Coronae Borealis does not appear in either of these two catalogues.

At its discovery it was described simply as "the variable in the Northern crown". It was later referred to as Variabilis Coronae, "Variable (star) of Corona (Borealis)". It has also been called a "reverse nova" because of its habit of fading from sight. The variable star designation R Coronae Borealis was introduced, as "Coronae R" by Friedrich Wilhelm Argelander in 1850.

Variability
The variability of R Coronae Borealis was discovered by English astronomer Edward Pigott in 1795. In 1935 it was the first star shown to have a different chemical composition to the Sun via spectral analysis.

R Coronae Borealis is the prototype of the R Coronae Borealis class of variable stars. It is one of only two R Coronae Borealis variables bright enough to be seen with the naked eye, along with RY Sagittarii. Much of the time it shows variations of around a tenth of a magnitude with poorly defined periods that have been reported as 40 and 51 days. These correspond to the first overtone and fundamental radial pulsation modes for an extreme helium star slightly under.

At irregular intervals a few years or decades apart R Coronae Borealis fades from its normal brightness near 6th magnitude for a period of months or sometimes years. There is no fixed minimum, but the star can become fainter than 15th magnitude in the visual range. The fading is less pronounced at longer wavelengths. Typically the star starts to return to maximum brightness almost immediately from its minimum, although occasionally this is interrupted by another fade. The cause of this behaviour is believed to be a regular build-up of carbon dust in the star's atmosphere. The sudden drop in brightness may be caused by a rapid condensation of carbon-rich dust similar to soot, resulting in much of the star's light being blocked. The gradual restoration to normal brightness results from the dust being dispersed by radiation pressure.

In August 2007, R Coronae Borealis began a fade to an unprecedented minimum. It fell to 14th magnitude in 33 days, then continued to fade slowly, dropping below 15th magnitude in June 2009. It then began an equally slow rise, not reaching 12th magnitude until late 2011. This was an unusually deep and exceptional long minimum, longer even than a deep five year minimum which had occurred in 1962–7. It then faded again to near 15th magnitude, and by August 2014 it had been below 10th magnitude for 7 years. In late 2014, it brightened quickly to 7th magnitude but then began to fade again. By mid-2017, it had been below its "normal" brightness for ten years. It also reached a new record faintest at magnitude 15.2.

Spectrum
R Coronae Borealis at maximum light shows the spectrum a late F or early G yellow supergiant, but with marked peculiarities. Hydrogen lines are weak or absent, while carbon lines and molecular bands of cyanogen (CN) and C2 are exceptionally strong. Helium lines and metals such as calcium are also present. The spectrum is variable, most obviously during the brightness fades. The normal absorption spectrum is replaced by emission lines, especially HeI, CaII, NaI, and other metals. The lines are typically very narrow at this stage. Helium emission lines sometimes show P Cygni profiles. In deep minima, many of the metal lines disappear although the Ca doublet remains strong. Forbidden "nebular" lines of [OI], [OII], and [NII] can be detected at times.

The spectrum at maximum indicates that hydrogen in R Coronae Borealis is strongly depleted, helium is the dominant element, and carbon is strongly enhanced. At minimum, the spectrum shows the development of carbon clouds that obscure the photosphere, leaving chromospheric lines visible at times.

Properties
R Coronae Borealis is about 90% helium and less than 1% hydrogen. The majority of the remainder is carbon. This classifies it as a carbon-enhanced extreme helium star. Modelling the pulsations suggests that the star's mass is. The temperature at maximum is reasonably well known at 6,900K and appears to decrease during the fades as the photosphere is obscured by condensing dust.

The distance of R Coronae Borealis is not known exactly, but is estimated at 1.4 kiloparsecs from assumptions about its intrinsic brightness. The absolute magnitude of −5 is calculated by comparison with R CrB variables in the Large Magellanic Cloud whose distances are known quite accurately. The luminosity is estimated from helium star models to be and the star has a radius around. The Gaia data release 1 parallax also gives a distance of 1.4 kpc although with a considerable margin of error.

There is a fainter star 3" away from R Coronae Borealis, but it is believed to be a distant class K dwarf. Its colour and apparent magnitude are not consistent with being at the same distance as R Coronae Borealis.

Formation
There are two main models for the formation of R CrB stars: the merger of two white dwarfs; or a very late helium flash in a post-AGB star. Models of post-AGB stars calculate that a star with the appearance of R CrB would have a mass around so it is thought to have formed by the merger of a carbon-oxygen white dwarf and a helium white dwarf. The detection of significant lithium in the atmosphere is not easily explained by the merger model, but is a natural consequence of a late helium flash. Evolutionary models of post-AGB stars give a mass of for R CrB, but with a considerable margin of error.

Circumstellar material
Direct imaging with the Hubble Space Telescope shows extensive dust clouds out to a radius of around 2000 astronomical units from R Coronae Borealis, corresponding to a stream of fine dust (composed of grains about 5 nm in diameter) associated with the star's stellar wind, and coarser dust (composed of grains with a diameter of around 0.14 μm) ejected periodically. The obscuration appears to happen closer to the star as clouds of carbon condense at shock regions in an expanding front. "Puffs" of dust emitted from the star condense at about from the surface, and are visible as cometary knots when they lie to side of the star. There is also a shell about 4 pc wide containing dust at 25 K, which may be a fossil planetary nebula.

title: R Coronae Borealis


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hjalmar Vilhjalmsson

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. -- AllyUnion (talk) 09:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hjalmar Vilhjalmsson
According to the article this businessperson's claim to notability is that he is the manager of a large fish plant and has made some unspecified investments in Estonia. I get 50 hits on Google for a scientist of the same name. --Lee Hunter 12:21, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Does not establish notability. - Jpo 13:57, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, Non notable. Inter 16:27, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete at the moment, as the article does not establish particulary sufficient notability. Being the son of someone who won an Olympic medal isn't notable, and his brother appears to have competed in the Olympics but not won. Hjalmar's sporting achievements may not be as impressive as they appear, as I would suspect it may well be less challenging to play for an Icelandic team in the Handball European Cup than for, say, a German one. Average Earthman 16:39, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, vanity. Wyss 19:46, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I wish people would stop saying 'non-notable' as if it meant something. If you mean 'it falls foul of What Wikipedia Is Not', say so, preferably with reference to which section in particular. Dan100 20:25, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Personally, I feel that "not notable" = "has no potential to be encyclopedic," which is clearly outlined. Oh, and delete. Katefan0 21:52, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * Try Biography articles should only be for people with some sort of notoriety or achievement. Average Earthman 01:55, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable - fails Google test, possible vanity. Megan1967 02:32, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Goa Engineering College

Goa Engineering College or Goa College of Engineering (abbreviated and colloquially referred to as GEC) is a public college in Goa, India, offering courses in engineering disciplines and affiliated to Goa University. Founded in 1967 and situated at Farmagudi plateau, Ponda, it is the oldest engineering college in Goa, with over 2,200 students.

Academic programmes
The college started in 1967 with undergraduate courses in mechanical, civil, and electrical engineering. The electronics and telecommunications course was introduced in 1982, computer science in 1988, information technology in 2001, and mining in 2011. In 2022, a course in electronics in VLSI was introduced in recognition of the growing semiconductor industry in India. All courses in the college are affiliated to Goa University.

It currently has eight masters programmes, the duration of each being two years: The college is recognized as a research institute under Goa University. The affiliation to Ph.D. programs in civil, mechanical, electrical and electronics, computer science and engineering, and electronics and telecommunication engineering are recognized from academic year 2014–15 onwards.

The college has a memorandum of understanding with IIT Bombay, and many of its faculty go there to pursue Ph.D. degrees.

The Farmagudi campus also houses National Institute of Technology Goa and Indian Institute of Technology Goa.

Accreditation and ranking
The National Board of Accreditation has accredited six branches of the college – the computer, mechanical, civil, electrical and electronics, information technology, and electronics and telecommunications branches. This means the academic curriculum and the teaching-learning process is of a good standard, with adequate infrastructure and faculty, acceptable to the All India Council of Technical Education.

A study conducted in 2006 by the magazine Dataquest India ranked the college at 75th in India. In Dataquest's 2011 survey the college was unranked.

As part of the golden jubilee celebrations, it was announced that the college would soon house an incubation centre for boosting entrepreneurship on campus.

Campus
The college has one of the largest libraries in the state. It is home to over 86,000 books, journals, and magazines, catering to all the subjects taught in the college. The library has a multimedia section that houses electronic modes of information such as encyclopedias. The library has a book bank facility with which students can obtain books for the entire year and return after the completion of the year, by paying a small fee.

With the largest campus in Goa, spread well over 285 acres atop Farmagudi hill, the college has five boys' and two girls' hostels, staff housing, and guest house facilities for visiting faculty and students. The campus also hosts IIT Goa and NIT Goa until they get their permanent campus. The campus also has bicycles, donated by the alumni, for use by the staff and students.

Besides the main canteen and multiple mess facilities, the college has small stalls and a restaurant that are frequented by students. The campus shopping complex has a restaurant, as well as shops that cater to student needs ranging from photocopying to stationery and other day-to-day needs. The campus has a post office and a computer center.

The college gymkhana houses a power gym, which is accessible to students during non-working hours. There is an indoor badminton court, a basketball court, and a full-length natural grass football ground that can be used as a cricket field.

Notably, the Electronics and Telecommunications branch features a robotic arm - the KUKA KR-16 Industrial Robot, used in assembly lines across many industries, for training its students.

Student clubs and associations
The students of Goa Engineering College call themselves Engicos. However, not all post-graduate students identify themselves with this term.

The college has many active clubs: name="AkshayPhotoFlare">
 * The college has a Nature Club which organizes tree planting programmes in the surrounding regions and organizes treks to locations in Goa.
 * The college Photography Club has been organizing Photoflare, an international photography festival, since 2010.<ref
 * The college Quiz Club organizes quizzes for the college events.
 * The college Music Club conducts workshops and organizes open mike sessions at the college's festivals. It has its own music room with equipment in the Mining Department.
 * The college Literary and Debate Club organizes many small activities and helps organize TEDxGEC.
 * The college has a Coding Club.
 * The college Drama (Theatre) Club was one of the oldest clubs, and has been restarted after a gap of almost seven years (in 2018).
 * The college students founded the Astronomy Club in 2018, with the maiden event hosting Dr Vithal Tilvi, who discovered the furthest known galaxy in the Universe in 2013.
 * The college also has active student chapters of the IEEE, CSI, Goa Technology Association (GTA) and FSAI (Fire and Security Association of India).
 * The college also had a Robotics club and a Linux User Group (which hosted Stallman in 2003).

Student associations, based on their departments, are as follows:
 * MESA – Mechanical Engineering Students Association
 * ENEXSA – Electrical and Electronics Engineering Students Association (previously known as ELECTRA)
 * ACES – Association of Civil Engineering Students
 * CURSOR – Association of Computer Engineering Students
 * INTENSA – Information Technology Students Association
 * ASSETS – Association of Electronics and Telecommunications Engineering Students
 * MINESCO – Mining Engineering Students Council

These associations conduct events, technical and non-technical, once or twice per semester. They also come together to organise Spectrum, the college's technical festival.

The students also celebrate religious festivals Ganesh Chaturthi and Christmas every year on the campus.

Happenings
Happenings is the cultural festival organized by the college. Started in 1981, it is officially the oldest college festival in Goa.

The college has rock shows by Zero and Millennium in 1997, Parikrama in 1998, Pentagram (in both 1996 and 1999), Ezee Meat in 1997, Brahma in 2000, and Moksha, PDV, Psychomotor, Metakix, Sceptre in 2004. Rock machine, now known as Indus Creed, was the first band to ever play in GEC.

In 2008, Happenings became the biggest youth festival in Goa so far, and the event was hosted at Farmagudi. The biggest attractions were Jal from Pakistan performing for the Pronite on 22 February and two bands, Decibel (from Delhi) and Fahrenheit performing for the rock show on 23 February.

In 2009, two fresh and famous bands performed for the rock show, namely Bhayanak Maut and Reverse Polarity, both from Mumbai.

After a break of six years, Happenings was organized again in 2014. Happenings 2015, a two-day event witnessed Pronite by local band Within Ceres and a DJ night featuring the GEC Alumni Anish Sood.

In the year 2016 the venue of Happenings was shifted outside college campus for the first time in its history. Happenings 2016 was held at Dr Shyama Prasad Mukherjee Indoor Stadium. The Happenings 2016 Pronite witnessed a performance by a local band, The 3 Horsemen, and the DJ night organized in association with Vh1 Supersonic featured Lost Stories.

The Happenings 2017 Pronite was organized in association with Coke Studio and featured Bollywood sensation Jonita Gandhi, while the DJ night, in association with Vh1 Supersonic featured Zaeden.

Happenings 2018 had a Pronite witnessed a performance by Akash Mangueshkar, the Kingfisher Voice of Goa, 2014. The DJ night, in association with Vh1 Supersonic featured internationally acclaimed DJ Shaan.

Happenings 2019, which was held on 16 and 17 March 2019 witnessed one of the biggest Pronites in its history, with a performance of Emiway Bantai and second day DJ night featured one of India's top DJ duo the Progressive Brothers.

Happenings 2022 was held from 19-20 May 2022, after a break of 2 years, mostly due to the COVID-19 crisis. It was held at The Manohar Parrikar Indoor Stadium and witnessed the main performance by Russian DJ Julia Bliss. Other performances were by ProBros, Explicit Vibes and Sahil NRG.

Spectrum
Spectrum is the technical festival organized by the college. It was started in 2016, after a decision to merge the technical events organized by the individual student associations of each department.

Spectrum 2017 Pronite featured Sapan Verma and Sorabh Pant from the comedy group EIC.

Spectrum 2018 Pronite was held in association with Sunburn and featured Sartek and The Unknown.

Tandav
Tandav is an annual inter-departmental cultural and sports event, in which all branches of the college compete across various events for a trophy.

TEDxGEC
TEDxGEC is Goa's second TEDx event and was started in 2016. Its first event featured four eminent personalities: Kanan Tandi, an expert in body language; Gaurav Padte, a social worker, awarded by the Prime Minister Narendra Modi for his work in cleaning up the Fatorda Stadium; Marietta Rodrigues e D'Souza, a clinical psychologist and counsellor from Sharada Mandir School, who spoke about teenage love; and Somu Rao, President of Goa Science Forum and Former National Secretary of Federation of Indian Rationalists Associations, who spoke about godmen and rationality.

Their second event open to the general public was a Salon event titled "TEDxGECSalon: ARTiculate". Held in 2017, it featured alumni DJ Anish Sood and filmmaker Aditya Jambhale, along with noted artist Dr Subodh Kerkar.

Other notable events

 * Richard M Stallman, founder of the GNU Project and the Free Software Foundation, visited the college Linux User Group in November 2001.
 * The college celebrated its golden jubilee year in 2016-2017. A clock tower, funded by alumni, was erected on this occasion.
 * AICSSYC (All India IEEE Computer Society Students and Young Professionals Congress) 2018 was hosted by IEEE GEC Chapter.

Notable alumni
name="GECAlumni">
 * Aisha de Sequeira, co-head of Morgan Stanley India from 2013 through 2020.
 * Anish Sood, DJ and EDM producer
 * Cruz Silva, MLA of Velim constituency.
 * Sameer Naik, founders of NextBiT Computing Pvt Ltd. The company was, in 2009, voted on the list of top 25 emerging technology companies in India
 * Sidharth Kuncalienker, politician, ex-MLA of Panjim constituency<ref
 * Shikha Pandey, cricketer

List of principals

 * Vivek Kamat (2009-2013)
 * R.B. Lohani (2013-2014)
 * Vinayak N. Shet (2014-2018)
 * Dr. Krupashankara Mysore Sethuram (2018-2021)
 * R.B. Lohani (2021-2023)
 * Dr. Krupashankara Mysore Sethuram (2023 onwards)

title: Goa Engineering College


text:
Category:Sports terminology

The subcategories of this category are for articles on specific terms. For glossaries of terms, please place the glossaries in Category:Glossaries of sports and, if one exists, the sport-specific subcategory of. Do not a create a sport-specific subcategory just to hold a lone glossary article (it will just get up-merged again at WP:CFD).

title: Category:Sports terminology


text: Category:Web services

title: Category:Web services