text:
Talk:Telecommunications Act of 1996

Neutrality
There are weasel words indicating that the Act is a failure.
 * What are you talking about? Weasel words? Act was a "failure"? What in the world are you talking about? Are you trying to say that this article is purposely misleading others to believe the passing of the amendment was a bad decision? Why don't you show how, and provide some evidence for a lack of neutrality next time. This article seems pretty good and supported to me. I'm going to take the 'debated neutrality' sticker down, because you really haven't given any argument. If you'd like to argue about it seriously, please provide evidence of its bias.

Hi Monk, Please sign your comments. The weasel words comment was made by an anonymous user several months ago. The article has improved since then, and while incomplete, I agree it probably doesn't need to be tagged for weasel words. PuerExMachina 02:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Telcom Act Merged
Telcom Act article merged with this article as per previous editor's instructions and template. MPLX/MH 22:19, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

'TRA' redirect
TRA redirects to here, but it's not clear why. The article doesn't mention it. I'm surprised TRA is not a disambiguation page actually. Aren't there several notable things sharing this acronym? -- Nojer2 12:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Giving of digital spectrum
Will someone write about how the Telecommunications Act of 1996 gave up digital spectrums away to the telecommunications industry for free? (A spectrum that supposedly would have fetched $80 billion in a fair auction?) I know that after this bill was passed, Senator Dole and others on Capitol Hill raised a lot of concern about this. This was a major, but frequently unknown (for obvious reasons) aspect of the bill, and i thought it was funny that it wasn't mentioned at all.

Have you guys heard of this? --Maxwellcoffee 08:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

"The Unauthorized Bio of the Baby Bells"
I would like to know if any of the allegations set forth at this site are true/worth adding to this article.

--Sfultong 06:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Full Impact of Bill
I know that neutrality is key in Wikipedia, but this bill was contentious, and has had many effects on services and costs to consumers. It was written almost entirely by the Telcom companies, and is burdened with a lot of dirty laundry. Is it inappropriate to include that kind of information in a Wikipedia article?

Quigonpaj 12:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Sloppy Edit
Seems to me that the latest edit was pretty sloppy. The paragraph after the list of mergers reads:

"Eventhough the Telecommunications act was brought into power to eliminate monopolization of large companies in the media field, this increased the power of the monopolizers through the new mergings that occurred. This last sentence is not accurate. Telecom monopolies existing because of Congressional law, until the federal courts broke up AT &T. The 1996 Act attempted to codify these changes in a new framework that would create additional competition."

So basically, the first editor said that the bill strengthened the monopolies, and the second editor decided to disagree with him, in the article, in the next sentence. Isn't that the kind of thing the Talk page is for? It sounds like the person writing this article had a dissociative identity disorder.

For now, I'm going to rewrite the whole paragraph. Feel free to change it if you have a better way of conveying the message.

Jason the Delicious 20:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Restored
Just restored the article as 72.80.19.251 deleted all content. Popher 22:44, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

NPOV
The section below appears to be unsubstantiated, and appears to be unrelated at all to the subject (Telecom Act of 1996) ... We need a link to show that the statement "Because media is now centrally-owned, few Americans know that" is true, or I believe its a NPOV issue

To help with NPOV I took most of the following out, I've pasted it here for NPOV examination.

=
== However, the two largest CLECs, Teleport Communications Group (TCG) and Metropolitan Fiber (MFS) were acquired by AT&T and MCI/WorldCom, respectively. When the smaller CLECs faced financial problems, the trend toward competition slowed, turning into a decade of reconsolidation. The stated intention of the Act was deregulation and promotion of competition, but it is now widely regarded as a failure.

Most media ownership regulations were thrown out by the Act, and independents were bought up. This, along with the Reagan-era recission of the Fairness Doctrine, resulted in the rise of right-wing radio, coast-to-coast. The Act was claimed to foster competition, but instead it led to historic industry consolidation, reducing the number of major media companies from around 80 in 1986, to 5 in 2005. Some are concerned about the consequences of such consolidated ownership. Will NBC, owned by General Electric, cover the externalities of GE's corporate activity? Issues such as: - The outsourcing of jobs to China, Mexico, and India: questions of trade policy. - Corporate behavior: does GE comply with taxation? Corporate welfare? Tax loopholes? - GE as a major polluter: will environmental policies be accurately covered? - GE is a major defense contractor: Will defense contracts receive fair scrutiny?

And these questions are not specific to NBC. CBS, News Corp, ABC (Disney), etc, are all cases which warrant concern. For example: - On election night in 2000, Jack Welch (then CEO of GE) came into the news offices of NBC, and told the producers to call George Bush as a winner in Florida. Independent investigations have asked NBC to turn over tapes of this incident, however they have refused to do so, citing privacy. - Few are aware that Reagan-Bush campaign officials met with Iranian officials in mid-October in Paris (1980), where an agreement was allegedly made to not release the hostages until after the new administration was sworn in. Several hostages claimed that their captors were holding stopwatches, counting down the time until their release. And few know that part of this agreement involved an arms agreement that utilized Israel as a conduit for the transfer of equipment. In one specific instance, within days of the Paris meetings around October 21st, Israel shipped a planeload of F-4 tires to Iran. And this was in contravention to the arms embargo currently in place. - CBS approached Greg Palast of the BBC, who broke the story about the Florida voters "scrub list" that was later proven to be woefully inaccurate (95% inaccurate). Mr. Palast gave his permission for CBS to follow up. Several days later, Palast was told by CBS that they had contacted the governor's office and decided to kill the story, because the governor's office had denied that the story was true. A target of the allegation, denies the truth of the story, and so a major news outlet decides not to cover it; a story later proven to be true, but never aired.

Because media is now centrally-owned, few Americans know that: - The wealthiest 5 percent own 84.4 percent of everything in America, and the bottom 40 percent owns less than 1 percent; - Two companies count 80 percent of the votes in U.S. elections (ES&S and Diebold), and the chief officers of the two companies are brothers Bob and Todd Urosovich. - A billionaire funded the Arkansas Project to try to bring down the Clinton presidency, in an apparent coup de état; - In July, 2006, half of the lawyers in the IRS's Estate Tax Division were laid off en masse, apparently as an end-run around the law (ref. DemocracyNow.org); - America's national debt now equals $30,000 for each man, woman and child in the nation ($9tt ÷ US population).

Professor Aurora Wallace: "Media consolidation has created the illusion of choice. Basically, just because we have hundreds of cable channels, hundreds of magazines, record labels, etc... all of these outlets are owned by 5 companies. We are not better served by the amount of information, if the information is collated by a very distinct minority."

Universal Service paragraphs (2)
After working on formatting changes to the Universal Service paragraphs, and setting a small time aside for the cited PDF from U.S. GAO (Murphy, 1998, to Sen. Stevens) -- giving a balanced treatment of the material covered in these two paragraphs would expand this article pretty far beyond the Telecommunications Act of 1996 itself. I think the episode with USF is its own page in history, essentially (Congress did not ask the FCC to overstep its authority, if that is what happened). Certainly the Telecommunications Act of 1996 didn't ask the FCC to misstep. So. It would be a matter to pursue in the FCC tree of articles on Wikipedia, or perhaps a collection of articles revolving around general misapproprations of funds and all that.

The Act itself (IMO) ought to be documented on its face, here. There's enough to it, to have to describe it in multiple pages (thousands of words) without wading deeply into its perceived failings. That is, its provisions haven't been described in much detail here, and we're already jumping in with the nooses and the pitchforks.

To editorialize a bit further…

Law has an interesting side to it .. it is interpreted one way by those who aren't quite familiar with it (and so largely obey it) and in another by those quite familiar with it, looking for ways to interpret it again.

Telecommunications Laws do affect the non-specialist, and they also have fairly honorable intentions, within a certain frame of reference. Very little has been written (in the article under consideration) about the Telecommunications Act of 1996, itself. Communications Law is interesting if you're in the frame of mind to work within it.

I think a Wikipedia article should assist that goal, primarily.

Nothing wrong with links to other (critical or noncritical) documents, but if it's done the other way, there's a hollow center where the Act itself was not discussed.

I've put in some references late last week that point to the proceedings on the Senate Floor (as documented by the Library of Congress). The stuff is fairly accessible. --Tetonca 12:05, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This page should be about what Congress authorized. The details and controversies of the FCC's implementation belong in the Universal Service Fund and E-rate articles. PuerExMachina 05:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup in Progress
I just made major changes to the structure and content of the article. I modeled the structure after No Child Left Behind. I tried to remove POV without altering the current content. When time allows, I intend to take the suggestion of User:Tetonca and expand the coverage of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, itself. PuerExMachina 03:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

 * It would also be useful to have a section describing the aftermath/results of the act, such as Clear Channel Communications becoming the "largest owner of full-power AM, FM, and shortwave radio stations" in the US. -M.nelson (talk) 08:00, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Yeah come on, no controversies / aftermath section? Dude "Man in the Box" from Alice in Chains has been on the damn radio for 21 YEARS now, no one sees anything unusual about that? Really? Picture 1981, "Crazy Train" from Ozzy was just played on the radio, and imagine for the next song they play "The Twist" from Chubby Checker, not only that but "The Twist" continuously since 1960. That would be the equivalent of hearing "Man in the Box" in 2011, still in heavy air play since 1990. It's like a cockroach walking across a white carpet - how is everyone NOT noticing this? Hanz ofbyotch (talk) 17:22, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

huh?
"The Telecommunications Act was the first bill signed into cyberspace"

This line seems to have been added some time ago, but for the life of me I can't understand what that is even supposed to mean. At best it appears to be a botched joke unless there is something (like of encyclopedic value) that I am missing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.80.142.27 (talk) 15:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I have no idea what it means, either. Can someone translate that into modern English? —BlackTerror (talk) 05:33, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I see that well over 8 years on from these comments that phrase was still present, and still just as meaningless. Now removed.  97.86.156.248 (talk) 20:58, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Telecommunications Act of 1996


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Binilnilium

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 17:45, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Binilnilium
While technically correct, do we really want all would-be atomic names from here to infinity in the wikipedia? Radiant! 22:20, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Do Latin numbers go up to infinity? Anyway delete unless there's something special about this one, which seems unlikely. Kappa 22:58, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * They do when expressed this way (which isn't really Latin). Uncle G 03:50, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notable imaginary topic. Gazpacho 23:13, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete extrapolationcruft. (Not a good neologism but we need some term for all these articles created by applying mathematical induction to some naming convention). Dpbsmith (talk) 23:51, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Having placeholders for probably discovered but unnamed elements or believed to be soon to be discovered elements is one thing. But this is just silly. Delete. -- Cyrius|✎ 01:59, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Why not redirect to a page that contains the IUPAC naming convention for undiscovered or discovered and yet to be officially named elements? 132.205.15.43 02:13, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Systematic element name is the page you mean, and redirecting there or Transuranium element would be ok with me. Kappa 06:45, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Systematic element name Transuranium element since its atomic number is greater than 92. The name was proposed by IUPAC btw so it's not really a hoax as such. Megan1967 02:44, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Kappa suggested redirect is superior, changed as above. Megan1967 23:54, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Ditto on the redirect to Transuranium element, since an ad nauseum page doesn't exist. ;-) — RJH 04:30, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not an article, unhelpful. Wyss 11:48, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Crayonning on the walls. --Wetman 11:52, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - great so now we deal with temporary names of things not yet discovered! Brookie 19:39, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unlikely to be discovered in any of our lifetimes.  Do not redirect, unless it's somehow a good idea to redirect the eighty-mumble other undiscovered elements that precede this, too. —Korath (Talk) 01:52, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Jayjg (talk) 03:36, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Giant Records (Warner)

Giant Records was launched in 1990 as a joint venture between Warner Bros. Records and record executive Irving Azoff. Currently, this name is used as a Swedish label owned by Warner Music Sweden, a Swedish branch of Warner Music Group.

In 1990, Giant became a subsidiary label for Warner Music Group. Its first release, in early 1991, was the Gulf War all-star tribute song "Voices That Care," assembled by producer David Foster. That spring, "Hold You Tight" by Tara Kemp was released and went on to become a Top 5 single. In the months that followed, Giant Records released the soundtrack album for the film New Jack City, selling 16 million copies worldwide. The label signed such acts as MC Hammer, Jade, Lord Finesse, and teen pop star Jeremy Jordan. Giant also signed established acts such as Big Car, Miles Zuniga, Steely Dan, Warren Zevon, Oingo Boingo, Chicago, Deep Purple, Morbid Angel, Brian Wilson, and Kenny Rogers. The label also operated a country music division in Nashville; the first act signed was Dennis Robbins.

In 1992, Irving Azoff expanded the Giant brand into film production. Giant Pictures only produced one film, The Inkwell, in 1994, before shutting down a year later.

In 1993, Giant became dissatisfied with Warner Music Group's practice of international affairs, so it made a deal with BMG to distribute its recordings outside the U.S. By the mid- to late 1990s, the company had replaced most of its staff and launched a subsidiary label called Revolution Records; Brian Wilson signed with the new label in 1997.

The company later reverted to its original name and distributed Paladin Records, which included singer-songwriter Steve Forbert. In 2001, Warner Music Group ended its joint venture with Giant, which was absorbed into Warner Bros. Records. Since then, BMG no longer repressed and distributed any previous releases of Giant. Distribution of current reissues are done by Warner Music's reissue division, Rhino, in conjunction with Warner Records, and many reissues still include Giant logo on packaging.

In February 2015, Warner Music Sweden announced that it would reactivate Giant's name; the first single released under the new Giant Records banner was Simon Erics' "Waiting for the Sun."

On June 9, 2022, Azoff relaunched a rebranded and independent version of the label with no connections to Warner called Giant Music.

Giant Records recording artists

 * Artists on Giant Records were primarily distributed by Warner Bros. Records. Giant recording artists marked with (#) were distributed by Reprise Records.

 * Above the Law #
 * Ahmad
 * Deborah Allen
 * Air Supply
 * Army of Lovers (US) (1991-1992) #
 * Atomic Opera
 * Peter Blakeley
 * Bangalore Choir
 * Big Car
 * Big Head Todd and the Monsters
 * Big Mountain
 * Tony Banks (US) #
 * Carlene Carter
 * Manu Dibango
 * Certain Distant Suns
 * Chicago ("Night & Day Big Band" album only)
 * Mark Collie
 * Color Me Badd #
 * The Cunninghams
 * David and the Giants
 * The D.O.C.
 * Deep Purple (US) #
 * Denzil
 * Disturbed #
 * Divine Styler
 * Thomas Dolby (US) #
 * Earth to Andy
 * Flame
 * Hank Flamingo
 * Steve Forbert (Revolution/Giant)
 * Good2Go #
 * Keith Harling
 * House of Freaks
 * Miki Howard #
 * I5
 * Icy Blu
 * Jade #
 * Jeremy Jordan #
 * Tara Kemp
 * Jena Kraus
 * Letters to Cleo #
 * Miari
 * Michelle Lewis
 * Lord Finesse #
 * MC Hammer #
 * Neal McCoy
 * Tim Mensy
 * Georgia Middleman
 * Morbid Angel
 * Joe Nichols
 * Daron Norwood
 * Oingo Boingo (as "Boingo")
 * Orrall & Wright
 * Owsley
 * Pirates of the Mississippi
 * Prime STH
 * The Reese Project
 * Pudgee tha Phat Bastard
 * Regina Regina
 * Boris René
 * RTZ (Return to Zero) #
 * Dennis Robbins
 * Kenny Rogers
 * Blake Shelton
 * Kenny Wayne Shepherd
 * Daryle Singletary
 * Skew Siskin
 * Roger Springer
 * Steely Dan #
 * Shug & Dap
 * Super Deluxe
 * Sway & King Tech
 * Doug Supernaw
 * Tad
 * Lisa Taylor
 * Tony Thompson
 * Too Much Joy
 * Valentine
 * Rhonda Vincent
 * Clay Walker
 * Chris Ward
 * Don Williams
 * Geoffrey Williams
 * Brian Wilson #
 * The Wilkinsons
 * Zaca Creek
 * Warren Zevon #

title: Giant Records (Warner)


text:
Talk:Tupolev Tu-160

National origin
Since this originated in the Soviet Union, should we strike Russia from it? No question that Russia is the successor the the USSR, but it does't seem to be the origin.Garuda28 (talk) 19:29, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Don't take origin so literally. In this sense, it means the nations it comes from or are responsible for it, not the first-ever nation. - BilCat (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Gotcha, wasn't sure if there was a precedence for this on other aircraft articles, since the Soviet Union/Russia is our only case of this happening in recent history. Thanks!Garuda28 (talk) 19:46, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Well, that's the original intent of the parameter anyway, and how I continue to interpret it. Russia is doing major upgrades of their T-160s, and might resume production if needed, so it's clearly their aircraft too. And there's certainly a strong argument that Russia is the successor to the Soviet Union, as the former made up the bulk of the latter's land area and population. - BilCat (talk) 21:26, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Antonov was an Ukrainian, Tupolev Russian. The continunity exists. 62.78.205.143 (talk) 16:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Tu-170?
It links here from a list of Tu planes, but there's no mention of it. I demand this be done. GMRE (talk) 20:33, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Size/ Role / Comparison
I quote: "While similar in appearance to the American B-1 Lancer, the Tu-160 is a different class of combat aircraft; its primary role being a standoff missile platform (strategic missile carrier).[32] The Tu-160 is also larger and faster than the B-1B and has a slightly greater combat range, though the B-1B has a larger combined payload with external payload." When comparing Size -it is closer to the US North American Aviation XB-70 Valkyrie. Althought the XB-70 is some decades earlier and only 2 test aircraft were built. Others thoughts on changing the comparision to the XB-70? Wfoj3 (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

 * Yep. Also the "in response to" B-1 is completely false and comes from military fan fiction literature.
 * It could be compared to (but was not made in-response-to) the _original_ RFP for the B1 which called for a strategic bomber. Once the B-1"A" project got canned, the Tu-160 was left in a class of its own. No other mid-supersonic trans-continental "bomber" was ever put into service.
 * This is similar in how the Mig-31 (and Mig-25) have no analogues. Or how the F-117 or the F-14 had no analogues either. Each of these came to be solving a specific need for a specific country. A need that just did not exist for anyone else. Or the Draken for the Swedes, etc. 83.240.62.87 (talk) 21:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

=Register and port=

There is a common knowledge, that the Russian federation had 16 Tupolev Tu-160's, Tu-160M1's and Tu-160M2's. How ever since the Ukrainians strome to the Engels AFB, 30 Tupolevs can be seen in the Google Earth satellite photograph in Vernnyi AFB in the Murmans oblast. It would be interesting to know, what are the remaising 13 and what types they represent. 2001:14BA:6408:AB00:CD45:302A:4BDB:A8F5 (talk) 15:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tupolev Tu-160


text:
Talk:Sowelu

Untitled
Fullmetal Alchemist produced by TBS? I believe it was shown on TV Tokyo in Japan, not some American station. The words that are in italics for this article are also in dire need of direct links to other articles related to them. Can somebody clarify this?

 * TBS stands for Tokyo Broadcasting System. I'll clean up the article a bit for clarity (and brevity in some parts). --Alex¯Jon 19:03, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

There's an anime called "Beck: Mongolian Chop Squad", and if I'm not mistaken Sowelu sang one of the endings for that series, titled "Full Moon Sway". Can someone verify and add this information if it's correct?

The Japanese version of this page lists her real name as unpublicized, while this page lists it as Harada Aki. This should have a reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.147.150.204 (talk) 00:27, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Sowelu


text:
Frankie Armstrong

Frankie Armstrong (born 13 January 1941) is an English singer and voice teacher. She has worked as a singer in the folk scene and the women's movement and as a trainer in social and youth work. Her repertoire ranges from traditional ballads to music-hall and contemporary songs, often focusing on the lives of women.

She is a key mover of the natural voice movement and is the president of the natural voice network, and has been a voice coach for theatrical groups, including at the National Theatre for 18 years. Involved with folk and political songs from the 1950s, she has performed and/or recorded with Blowzabella, The Orckestra (with Henry Cow and the Mike Westbrook Brass Band), Ken Hyder's Talisker, John Kirkpatrick, Brian Pearson, Leon Rosselson, Dave Van Ronk and Maddy Prior. She is blind from glaucoma.

Biography
Armstrong was born on 13 January 1941 in Workington, Cumberland. She moved to Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire, as a young child. She began singing in a group with her brother singing Elvis Presley and Little Richard numbers, and in 1957 joined the Stort Valley Skiffle Group which a few years later changed its name to the Ceilidh Singers as its repertoire moved towards folk music. The group founded the Hoddesdon Folk Club.

In 1963 she qualified as a social worker for blind people and began working with Louis Killen and performing solo (Louis Killen's advice led to her developing the harder voice quality for which she is noted. ). In 1964, at Killen's suggestion she joined The Critics Group directed by Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger. In 1965 she sang at the Edinburgh Festival "Poets in Public", with John Betjeman, Stevie Smith and Ted Hughes. Her first recording, in 1965, was at the invitation of Bert Lloyd who as director of Topic Records was putting together an album of erotic songs with Anne Briggs, released as The Bird in the Bush (12T135, 1966). In 1968 she recorded songs for the radio programme The Blind Set produced by Charles Parker about the treatment of visually impaired people which led to the formation of the Blind Integration Group.

In 1973 she spent several weeks in the US and met Ethel Raim. She was inspired by Raim's Balkan singing workshops and in the mid-1970s pioneered her own workshops developing her own approach to singing with a natural voice. Her conviction that singing is for everyone has underpinned her approach. She was an initiating member of the NVPN – Natural Voice Practitioners' Network, and "The key figure behind the development of the network...".

She was a member of the Feminist Improvising Group (FIG), co-founded in 1977 by vocalist Maggie Nicols, bassoonist Lindsay Cooper, keyboardist Cathy Williams, cellist and bassist Georgina Born, and trumpeter Corinne Liensol. Armstrong collaborated within the accomplished FIG after 1978, and also with free jazz pianist (and partly percussion playing) Irène Schweizer, saxophonist (and film maker) Sally Potter, trombonist and violist Annemarie Roelofs, flutist and saxophonist Angèle Veltmeijer, and saxophonist and guitarist Françoise Dupety.

The accompanying book to the Topic Records 70 year anniversary boxed set Three Score and Ten has a dust jacket picture of Frankie with Louis and The Crafty Maid's Policy from Lovely on the Water is the seventh track on the second CD in the set.

In 2018, she was awarded a Gold Badge Award from the English Folk Dance and Song Society for outstanding contributions to folk music. She wrote and recorded a song for Stick in the Wheel which is included in their second "From Here: English Folk Field Recordings, Volume 2" recording project and joined Lankum on stage at new year in Bristol singing Old Man from over the Sea.

In 2019, Folk Radio UK announced that Frankie had formed a new band called Green Ribbons with Alasdair Roberts, Jinnwoo and Burd Ellen. In July 2019, the band released their self-titled debut album consisting of purely unaccompanied singing through Matiere Memoir Records.

In November 2020, Folk Radio UK announced that Frankie is due to release her 12th studio album 'Cats of Coven Lawn' in January 2021 to mark her 80th birthday. The album was produced by Bird in the Belly member Tom Pyor, and the first single 'Life Lived Well' features Laura Ward (Bird in the Belly, Hickory Signals).

Solo

 * Lovely on the Water, Topic 12TS 216, LP (1972)
 * Out of Love, Hope and Suffering, Bay 206, LP (1973)
 * Songs and Ballads, Topic 12TS 273, LP (1975)
 * And the Music Plays So Grand, Silence Records SRS4652, LP (1980)
 * I Heard a Woman Singing, Flying Fish FF 332, LP (1984)
 * Ways of Seeing, Harbourtown Records HAR009 (1990), CD (1996)
 * Till the Grass O'ergrew the Corn: A Collection of Traditional Ballads, Fellside FECD116, CD (1997)
 * The Garden of Love, Fellside FECD144, CD (1999)
 * Encouragement, Fellside FECD208, CD (2008)
 * What's She Got To Smile At?: Songs of Brecht, Weill and Eisler., CD (2017)
 * ''Cats of Coven Lawn, GF*M Records/Pirate Jenny Records (2021)

Collaborations

 * The Bird In The Bush, Topic 12T135 (1966)- with A. L. Lloyd and Anne Briggs
 * The Female Frolic, Argo DA82 (1968) as a member of The Critics Group
 * My Song is My Own: Songs from Women Plane Label TPL 0001 (1980) – with Sandra Kerr, Alison McMorland and Kathy Henderson
 * Nuclear Power No Thanks, Plane Label IMP2, LP (1981) – with Roy Bailey, Martin Carthy, Ron Elliott, Howard Evans, Chris Foster, Sandra Kerr, John Kirkpatrick, Alison McMorland, Brian Pearson, Geoff Pearson, Leon Rosselson, & Roger Williams
 * Tam Lin, Plant Life PLR 063, LP (1984) – with Brian Pearson, Blowzabella and Jon Gillaspie
 * Let No One Deceive You – Songs of Bertolt Brecht Flying Fish CDFLY557 (1989) by Dave Van Ronk, The Red Onion Jazz Band and others.
 * The Fair Moon Rejoices, Harbourtown Records HARCD027 (1997) – with Joan Mills, Biddy Wells, Peter Stacey, Ben Lawrence, Geoff Haynes and Darien Pritchard
 * Darkest Before the Dawn, Harbourtown Records HARCD 045 (2004)- with Sarah Harman & Shanee Taylor
 * 'Green Ribbons', Matiere Memoire Records - with Alasdair Roberts (musician), Jinnwoo, and Burd Ellen.

Collections

 * Poetry and Song 1, LP, Argo DA 50 (1966) - Frankie Armstrong sings The Lark in the Morn
 * Poetry and Song 4, LP, Argo DA 53 (1966) - Frankie Armstrong and Sandra Kerr sing Scarborough Fair
 * Poetry and Song 5, LP, Argo DA 54 (1966) - Frankie Armstrong sings The Smuggler
 * Poetry and Song 9, LP, Argo DA 58 (1967) - Frankie Armstrong sings Higher Germany
 * Poetry and Song 10, LP, Argo DA 59 (1967) - Frankie Armstrong sings The Outlandish Knight
 * Poetry and Song 12, LP, Argo DA 61 (1967) - Frankie Armstrong sings The Recruited Collier
 * The Critics Group The Female Frolic, LP, Argo DA 82 (1968) - with Sandra Kerr and Peggy Seeger
 * The Critics Group Waterloo: Peterloo, English Folk Songs and Broadsides 1780-1830, LP, Argo ZFB 68 (1968) - with John Faulkner, Brian Pearson, Denis Turner and Terry Yarnell
 * Various Artists, Room for Company: Folk Songs Festive & Sociable, LP, Impact IMP-S 104 (1972)
 * Frankie Armstrong, Roy Harris, A.L. Lloyd, Martyn Wyndham-Read, The Valiant Sailor: Songs & Ballads of Nelson's Navy, LP, Topic 12TS232 (1973)
 * John Arlott et al., The World of the Countryside, LP, Argo SPA 304 (1973)
 * Various Artists, San Diego Folk Festival '74, LP, KPBS Public Broadcasting San Diego KPBS 101 (1974)
 * Various Artists, You Got Magic: Fox Hollow Festival 10th Anniversary Album, LP, Biograph BLP 12052, (1975)
 * David Jones, Cliff Haslam, Frankie Armstrong, Clive Collins, Here's a Health to the Man and the Maid, LP, Living Folk LFR 103, (1976)
 * Various Artists, Sånger och musik från Kvinnokulturfestivalen, LP, Silence SRS 4647, (1977)
 * Various Artists, English Folk Field Recordings Volume 2 by Stick In The Wheel, on Bonus CD & download, From Here Records, (2019).

Reissues

 * Lovely on the Water, a reissue of Frankie's first solo LP, with seven additional tracks: five from The Valiant Sailor (Topic 12TS232, 1973) and two from Room For Company (Impact IMPS104, 1972) (FECD 151).
 * Ways Of Seeing (solo, duo and group apace women's voices HARCD 009).
 * I Heard A Woman Singing, a reissue by Flying Fish Records, USA (CD FF 332) of the 1985 LP.
 * The Bird In The Bush, (TSCD 479) with additional material from Louis Killen and Norman Kennedy.

Books

 * My Song is My Own, Kathy Henderson, Frankie Armstrong and Sandra Kerr. London: Pluto Press, 1979. One hundred traditional and composed women's songs from the British Isles, with select bibliography and discography. (Associated LP: My Song is My Own: Songs from Women; Plane Label TPL 0001 (1980) – with Sandra Kerr, Alison McMorland and Kathy Henderson)
 * Autobiography As Far as the Eye Can Sing, edited by Jenny Pearson, published by Women's Press in 1992 (ISBN 0-7043-4294-4)
 * Well Tuned Women: Growing Strong through Voice Work, co-edited with Jenny Pearson, containing essays from leading international women voice trainers and artists, is also published by Women's Press (ISBN 0-7043-4649-4).
 * Acting and Singing with Archetypes, Janet B. Rodgers and Frankie Armstrong. Limelight Editions, 2009. Transcripts from a workshop held in 2006 (ISBN 978-0-87910-368-2).

Book chapters

 * Freeing Our Singing Voice, in The Vocal Vision: Views on Voice by 24 Leading Teachers, Coaches & Directors Edited by Marion Hampton & Barbara Acker, Applause Theatre & Cinema Books, 1997 (ISBN 1-55783-282-X).
 * The Voice is the Muscle of the Soul, in Glancing Fires: An Investigation into Women's Creativity, Edited by Lesley Saunders, The Women's Press Limited, 1987 (ISBN 0-7043-4061-5).
 * Some Reflections on the English Folk Revival", Armstrong. F & Pearson, B in History Workshop - A Journal of Socialist Historians, Issue 7 1978.
 * Finding our voices, in Voices from Arts for Labour, edited by N. Jackowska, Pluto Press, 1985.

Literature

 * Julie Dawn Smith: Playing like a Girl – The queer laughter of the Feminist Improvising Group. In: Daniel Fischlin and Ajay Heble (Editors): The Other Side of Nowhere: Jazz, Improvisation, and Communities in Dialogue. Middletown, Connecticut: Wesleyan University Press in 2004 (ISBN 0-8195-6682-9), p. 224–243.
 * Caroline Bithell: A Different Voice, A Different Song: Reclaiming Community through the Natural Voice and World Song. Oxford University Press (2014). ISBN 978-0-19-935455-9.

title: Frankie Armstrong


text:
Lou Macari

Luigi Macari (born 7 June 1949) is a Scottish former footballer and manager. He began his playing career at Celtic where he was one of the Quality Street Gang, the outstanding reserve team that emerged in the late 1960s that also included Kenny Dalglish and Danny McGrain. He is best known for his time at Manchester United, where he played over 400 games. He helped them win promotion back to the First Division and then played in their FA Cup win of 1977. He then finished his playing career at Swindon Town.

Macari was the manager of Swindon, West Ham United, Birmingham City, Stoke City (two spells), Celtic and Huddersfield Town.

Celtic
Lou Macari was the only child of Margaret and Albert; he was born in Edinburgh, and spent the first year of his life with his family in the village of Newtongrange, before the family moved to London. His father was in the catering industry, and had represented the British Army at football. The family moved to Largs in North Ayrshire when Macari was aged nine. He was spotted playing for Ayrshire county by Celtic, and signed schoolboy forms for the club at the age of 16. He turned professional at the club in 1968, on wages of £15 a week.

Macari quickly became part of the renowned reserve side known as the Quality Street Gang that also included Kenny Dalglish, Danny McGrain and David Hay. In August 1968, Celtic Reserves needed to defeat Partick Thistle Reserves by at least seven goals to win their Reserve League Cup section over Rangers Reserves. Celtic won 12–0, with Macari scoring four goals. Macari scored 91 goals in two seasons for the reserves and in occasional first team games, having broken through into the Celtic first team in 1970. In 1971, he replaced Willie Wallace in the starting line up for the replay of the 1971 Scottish Cup Final, and scored for Celtic in a 2–1 win over Rangers.

Manchester United
After a promising start to his playing career with Celtic, he moved south of the border in 1973 for £200,000 to sign for Manchester United, where he spent the bulk of his playing career. During his time with Celtic he had scored 57 goals in 100 appearances since making his first team debut in 1970. He won three League titles and two Scottish Cups in his time at Celtic.

His first game for Manchester United came in January 1973 against West Ham United in which he scored a point-saving goal in a 2–2 draw. In 1977, his deflected shot off teammate Jimmy Greenhoff won Manchester United the FA Cup final against Liverpool (and ultimately denied Liverpool the European treble). He made 400 appearances for the club, scoring 98 goals.

Macari's early career at Old Trafford was spent trying to lead an attack that struggled to achieve anything. Relegation to the Second division in 1974 was the low point but Macari blossomed as a midfielder in the following seasons under Tommy Docherty, as United began to win back a large following with attacking football in which Macari enjoyed popularity alongside players such as Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell and the Greenhoff brothers.

Macari helped United win the Second Division title in 1975. They finished third on their return to the top flight and were runners-up in the FA Cup before going one better and lifting the trophy a year later. He was on the losing side in the 1979 final against Arsenal, and also played in a string of European campaigns during the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Scotland
Macari won two Scotland Under 23 caps in early 1972, before making his debut for the full Scotland national team in May 1972 against Wales. He was a member of the Scotland squad for the 1978 World Cup tournament in Argentina. However, he attracted widespread criticism when it emerged that he had led complaints that the £20,000 bonuses the players would receive if they won the World Cup were too low, then made extra money by selling stories to the press about the disarray and tensions within the Scottish camp. As it turned out, the Scotland team lost their first match to Peru, and drew with Iran. They beat the Netherlands 3–2 but this was insufficient to proceed in the tournament and the Scotland squad returned home without qualifying for the knock-out stage. Macari and his team-mates did not receive the bonuses which were the subject of contention. He won a total of 24 senior caps, scoring five international goals.

Management career
After leaving Manchester United in 1984, he managed Swindon Town, West Ham United, Stoke City (twice), Celtic, Birmingham City and Huddersfield Town. As a manager Macari insisted upon a strict fitness regime, which included extra sessions in the players' free time and the banning of alcohol in and around the club.

"When I took my first management job at Swindon in the old Fourth Division, one of the things I had to adjust to was the fact I was working with players with lesser ability than at Old Trafford. There was a danger of demanding they play like top-flight footballers and then become frustrated with them when they couldn't. But I didn't see any reason why the players at Swindon couldn't be as fit as the players at Manchester United. That was something we worked really hard on, the players accepted it, and we reaped the rewards with promotion in my second season.'"

Swindon Town
His successes in management came with two promotions at Swindon Town (Fourth Division champions in 1986 and Third Division play-off winners in 1987). Harry Gregg, Swindon's assistant manager, did not like the style of play implemented by Macari. The divide between Macari and Gregg became more noticeable, so the board chaired by Maurice Earle sacked both of them on Good Friday, 5 April 1985. Macari was then reinstated as manager on 10 April 1985 after a fan-led protest, Swindon then went unbeaten for their next six games, winning, four, and Macari won the Manager of the Month award. The following season, 1985–86 saw Macari collect four Manager of the Month awards as he led Swindon to the Division 4 title with a record-breaking 102-point tally. A second consecutive promotion was achieved in 1987 with a play-off final victory over Gillingham at Selhurst Park. In 1989, Macari was fined £1,000 by the Football Association after he bet on Swindon to lose an FA Cup tie against Newcastle United. In 1992, he was tried and acquitted for tax fraud which took place while he was Swindon's manager; the club's then chairman was found guilty.

West Ham United
His achievements at Swindon earned Macari a move to West Ham United in 1989–90, becoming the first manager there never to have worked for the club in a previous capacity. Macari was given the job on 3 July 1989. He had a reputation for discipline and tried to change the training and dietary habits of the players. This met with some disapproval within the playing ranks. Macari bought in new recruits in future regular players, Luděk Mikloško, Trevor Morley, Martin Allen, and Ian Bishop. His team struggled to make much headway towards promotion and by the end of 1989 were in tenth place in The Second Division. They were also knocked out of the FA Cup by Torquay United on 6 January 1990 in the Third Round. Shortly after this it emerged that Macari was being investigated for betting irregularities whilst at his former club, Swindon Town. He left on 18 February 1990.

Birmingham City
Macari was appointed as manager at Birmingham City in February 1991. He guided the Blues to a 3–2 victory over Tranmere Rovers in the 1991 Football League Trophy Final.

Stoke City
On 18 June 1991 Macari was appointed manager at Stoke City. Stoke at the time had just finished in their lowest league position and Macari had the task to turn around the fortunes of the club. He brought in Steve Foley (£50,000 from Swindon Town), Vince Overson (£55,000 from Birmingham City), Ronnie Sinclair (£25,000 from Bristol City) and forward Mark Stein from Oxford United for what turned out to be a bargain £100,000.

Stoke in 1991–92 were in the hunt for automatic promotion all season eventually having to settle for a play-off place where they came up against Stockport County. The first leg at Edgeley Park saw County win 1–0 thanks to a free-kick from Lee Todd after Carl Beeston had been sent-off and in the second leg Stoke went behind in the first minute and despite Stein pulling one back Stoke went out 2–1 on aggregate. Just days after losing to Stockport in the play-offs, they met again in the 1992 Football League Trophy Final where Stoke won 1–0. The 1992–93 season saw Stoke win the Second Division title after amassing 93 points and also went on a club record unbeaten run of 25 games.

Celtic
In October 1993, Macari left Stoke City and returned to Scotland to manage Celtic. Despite defeating Rangers 2–1 at Ibrox in his first match, his time at Celtic Park was unsuccessful. Macari made several moves in the transfer market – none of them particularly successful. Gerry Creaney, one of the few consistent goalscorers at Celtic at that time, was played out of position on the right-wing for several weeks before being sold to Portsmouth for £600,000. Striker Willie Falconer was signed from Sheffield United, right-back Lee Martin and goalkeeper Carl Muggleton came north from England, and in what is considered one of Macari's poorest moves, Andy Payton moved to Barnsley in a part-exchange deal for journeyman striker Wayne Biggins. A miserable 4–2 defeat by Rangers in the New Year fixture at Parkhead left Celtic languishing in the league. An early Scottish Cup exit in January 1994 at Motherwell sealed another dismal season for Celtic. Fergus McCann took over as owner of Celtic in March 1994 and duly sacked Macari three months later.

Return to Stoke City
Macari returned to Stoke in September 1994. Stoke finished in a mid-table position of 11th in 1994–95 before the partnership of Mike Sheron and Simon Sturridge in 1995–96 produced 29 goals and earned Stoke a place in the play-offs. Stoke's opponents in the play-offs were Martin O'Neill's Leicester City whom Stoke had already beaten twice in the league. The first leg at Filbert Street ended 0–0. In the second leg, Stoke produced a poor performance and Leicester scored the only goal, Garry Parker's left-foot volley ended Stoke's hopes of promotion. The 1996–97 campaign saw Stoke play their final season at the Victoria Ground which ended with a mid-table finish of 12th. Macari announced he was leaving at the end of the season which was a surprise but he was 'stripped of his duties' before he left and later launched a lawsuit against Peter Coates for wrongful dismissal.

Huddersfield Town
Macari returned to management in 2000 with Huddersfield Town who were in relegation trouble after a poor start to the season. He could not prevent them from being relegated from Division One at the end of the 2000–01 campaign. Macari managed to steady the ship in 2001–02 and lead the club into the Second Division play-offs as the Terriers looked to bounce straight back up. However they were defeated by Brentford in the semi-finals. Macari's contract was not renewed for the next season with Huddersfield's board stating his defensive style of football as the reason. This was to be Macari's last managerial role and despite being linked with various positions since has not ventured back into management.

Post-retirement
Macari currently lives in Stoke-on-Trent and works as a pundit for MUTV on several shows. He is a regular guest on Match Day Live before Manchester United home and away games. As well as phone-in shows such as Wednesday Night Phone-in he occasionally does punditry for Sky Sports, and also writes regular comment pieces for the Stoke-on-Trent newspaper The Sentinel. He has given several guest talks at Staffordshire University on the Sports Journalism courses. Macari also owns the "Lou Macari Chip Shop" on Chester Road, near Old Trafford. He wrote his autobiography in October 2009 called Football, My Life.

Macari was portrayed by Scottish actor Tony Curran in the 2014 television film Marvellous, based on the life of former Stoke City kitman Neil Baldwin.

Personal life
His mother died just before the 1978 World Cup in strange circumstances, overdosing on tablets, her son was to find out. "My mum had been on her own, and in the conversation I'd had with her she said she had some friends up there. Putting the pieces together after she died, I just wasn't convinced that the friends were good friends. Some money had gone missing."

His sons Michael and Paul have played professionally with Stoke, when Macari was manager of the club. His youngest son Jonathan died by suicide in 1999 after being released from his contract at Nottingham Forest. Family friend and former manager Dave Bassett said that Jonathan could not handle the pressure of living up to his father's greatness. There was also talk of drugs affecting his son's life and leading to his suicide, but Macari later discounted that theory, admitting that much like the death of his mother, the complete story behind the tragedy may never be known. Years later he said that "money in a young man's pocket is a recipe for disaster and we had that disaster. Only when you go through something like that do you understand the hell of it."

His grandson Lewis plays for Notts County, on loan from Stoke City.

Macari worked with Stoke-on-Trent council to set up The Macari Centre, a street retreat to house the homeless sleeping rough, which opened in February 2016. In the COVID-19 pandemic, following the closure of the crowded premises of The Macari Centre, Macari rented a warehouse and filled it with glamping pods for homeless people, giving them socially distanced places of their own and their own individual addresses.

Club
Source:

 * A. The "Other" column constitutes appearances and goals in the Anglo-Italian Cup, Drybrough Cup, FA Charity Shield, Football League Trophy and Glasgow Cup.

As a manager
Source:

As a player
Celtic
 * Scottish Division One: 1969–70, 1970–71, 1971–72, 1972–73
 * Scottish Cup: 1970–71, 1971–72
 * Scottish League Cup runner-up: 1969–70, 1970–71, 1971–72

Manchester United
 * Football League Second Division: 1974–75
 * FA Cup: 1976–77; runner-up: 1975–76, 1978–79
 * FA Charity Shield: 1977 (shared), 1983
 * Football League Cup runner-up: 1982–83

As a manager
Swindon Town
 * Football League Fourth Division: 1985–86
 * Football League Third Division play-offs: 1987

Birmingham City
 * Football League Trophy: 1990–91

Stoke City
 * Football League Second Division: 1992–93
 * Football League Trophy: 1991–92

Individual
 * Football League First Division Manager of the Month: December 2000
 * LMA John Duncan Award: 2023

title: Lou Macari


text:
Talk:Involuntary servitude

 * Is there a definition for 'voluntary servitude'?
 * What separates voluntary from involuntary servitude?
 * Is a stop loss objector in voluntary military service an example of involuntary servitude?
 * Is compulsory jury duty involuntary servitude?

Could we delete the irrelevant reference to the Libertarian party? 74.251.36.141 01:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Definition insufficient
This definition is insufficient, as, from the Marxist point of view, for one example, it does not differentiate between servitude and capitalist free labor. Let's see: Involuntary servitude is a United States legal and constitutional term for a person laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion applies also to all capitalist free work. Most people in the free world labores against that person's will (i.e., they would not be working in that field if they were millonaires); every worker in the world benefits other people (i.e., the owner of the bussiness); and most people work for economic coercion (i.e., they are forced because they need money).--Againme (talk) 16:13, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

miltary service of men-only is violation
If military service is duty to the country by its citizens, then it must apply equally to both men and women. By contrapositive, if only men are required to serve, then it is *not* a duty of citizenship per se, rather it's a specific involuntary servitude of specific classes of people in violation of the 13th amendment. 198.144.192.45 (talk) 21:50, 30 March 2010 (UTC) Twitter.Com/CalRobert (Robert Maas)

 * Some argue that on sociological grounds (see e.g., this). Ithas also been argued on legal grounds (see e.g. this). This also discusses gender and conscription. Other relevant sources no doubt exist. Perhaps this article and/or the article on conscription should contain some info on that. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:55, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Recent changes
I reverted the recent restructuring of the article. It gave an WP:UNDUE voice for Libertarians, blanked an article section, and contained WP:ORIGINAL research from the editor --80.193.191.143 (talk) 16:23, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello, its me. i've been wondering if after all these years you'd like to meet, and go over everything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.84.32.50 (talk) 15:47, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

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Roe v. Ramption and SCOTUS
This edit saying, " In 1975 and 1993, the Supreme Court rejected such an argument.", caught my eye. It seems only to cite this 1975 decision in the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah in support. I am unable to find a SCOTUS decision in either 1975 or 1993 which would provide support. I am not a lawyer, and it is entirely possible that such decisions exist and I just don't know where to look for them. Please clarify and/or correct this. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:48, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Involuntary servitude


text:
User talk:Drock99

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Category:Philosophy of religion

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title: Category:Philosophy of religion