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Mush from the Wimp

"Mush from the Wimp" was a joke headline at the top of an editorial in The Boston Globe that accidentally passed through to publication in 1980.

Headline
On March 15, 1980, The Boston Globe ran an editorial that began:

"Certainly it is in the self-interest of all Americans to impose upon themselves the kind of economic self-discipline that President Carter urged repeatedly yesterday in his sober speech to the nation. As the President said, inflation, now running at record rates, is a cruel tax, one that falls most harshly upon those least able to bear the burden."

The editorial was not particularly critical of Carter, but was given the headline "Mush from the Wimp". The headline was corrected to read "All must share the burden" during the print run, but only after 161,000 copies had already gone to circulation.

Aftermath
The phrase had been created by Globe editorial writer Kirk Scharfenberg; in 1982, he wrote an op-ed piece discussing it. Scharfenberg had felt that Carter's speech was "wishy-washy" and it left him "not much impressed." "I meant it as an in-house joke and thought it would be removed before publication," he explained. "It appeared in 161,000 copies of the Globe the next day." Scharfenberg also noted the use of "wimp" as a popular political insult afterwards. He remained with the Globe until his death in 1992 from cancer at age 48.

A month after the headline was published, Theo Lippman Jr. of The Baltimore Sun declared "Mush from the Wimp" as being "on its way to becoming one of the most famous headlines of our time." He placed it behind "Wall St. Lays an Egg" (Variety, 1929) and ahead of "Ford to City: Drop Dead" (New York Daily News, 1975).

The phrase became well known enough that in 1995, a Globe editorial chastising the Iditarod Race for caving in to pressure from animal rights activists was titled "More wimps from the mush."

The New York Post used "Mush from the wimp", with credit to Scharfenberg, as the title of an opinion column published on June 20, 2013, criticizing President Barack Obama following a speech in Berlin.

title: Mush from the Wimp


text:
User:Luornuviolet

I like the Legion of Super Heroes and the last Imperial family of Russia. I also have far too much time on my hands. Go me.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Luornuviolet


text:
Talk:Mount Takahe

8200 or 7900 eruptions
I got a feeling that the eruptions 8,200 and 7,900 years before present are actually the same event, but I am not sure if the source can be interpreted that way - that source defers to this one which mentions no 7,900 event but does have the 8,200 one. Also, should the 8.2 ka eruption in this abstract be considered the same source? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:37, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

SG review
Jo-Jo, I will slowly add as I have time.

 * is a 3,460 metres high snow-covered shield volcano
 * This has the same hyphenation problems we discussed at Coropuna. It would correctly be hyphenated as "3,460-meter-high", which introduces too many hyphens, especially with the convert, so the sentence is better recast to avoid that mess ... is a snow-covered shield volcano that is 3,460 meters high and stands 200 kilometres (120 mi) away from the Amundsen Sea ...

 * ... is a c. 30 kilometres (19 mi) wide mountain with an up to 8 kilometres (5.0 mi) wide caldera and parasitic vents.
 * Same problem. Correctly hyphenated, it would be 30-km-wide mountain with ... 8-km-wide caldera ... which is a mess with converts and hyphens, so best to recast sentence entirely ... It is a mountain with parasitic vents that is 30 km wide with a caldera that is up to 8 km wide.

The kind of incorrect hyphenation I mention in the first two points is throughout the article; I can check back after they are all fixed, Best, Sandy Georgia (Talk)  00:29, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * formerly it was thought that it had formed entirely underneath of ice ... I am not sure what this means ... had formed entirely below ice ?
 * Yes. I wasn't sure of the ideal formulation there, but your version is clearer - changed it to that. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * With a volume of 780 km3 (190 cu mi) it is a massive volcano, the parts of the edifice that are buried underneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet are probably even larger. ... has incorrect punctuation.  ??? It is a massive volcano, with a volume of 780 ... and probably even larger parts buried beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet ??
 * Changed it to semicolon, but I am not sure that this works better than current. It's a bit hard to formulate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It is located within the West Antarctic Rift System along with about eighteen other known volcanoes. ... move that earlier in the paragraph?
 * I think that moving from the specific to the general is a better structure to use, here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The volcano was active in the Quaternary. Radiometric dating has yielded ages of 300,000 years and less for its rocks, the fast-growing volcano reached its present-day height about 200,000 years ago. ... has incorrect punctuation.
 * Used a dot here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * A number of tephra layers encountered in ice cores ... found in?  Encountered in sounds passive ... someone had to go look for them, no?
 * Yes, but since we are talking about a volcano here and not about the people who drill for them (and neither do the sources for this article) I think passive voice works here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, that kind of hyphenation issue. I did check some style guides and it looks like the second hyphen is needed, so added it. I don't think that recasting the sentences is the better solution, it makes them much longer and wordier and sound a little off too. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * BTW, the convert template will handle it, with the "adj=mid|-wide" construct. If the units are abbreviated, it intentionally drops the hyphen between the number and unit. 10 km vs. 10 km. Note that you do have to specify the target unit when using that construct. -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:19, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * (ec)Huh, didn't know about that parameter . Thanks. Also, seems like I might have messed up the first ping to . Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 14:24, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No time to look today ... finish addressing per JHuntrJ, ping me tomorrow to remind me ???? Sandy Georgia (Talk)  14:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Further SG review
Jo-Jo, starting over because I forget where I left off; my apologies if I hit something already covered. I think you're probably good to go to FAC. Good luck! Sandy Georgia (Talk)  21:40, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Snow, ice, and glaciers cover most of Mount Takahe; formerly it was thought that it had formed below ice. ... It is a bit jarring to find something in the lead that was formerly thought to be the case, without understanding why or how that earlier thinking changed.
 * Decided to just cut this sentence; it's a bit too off-field for the lead. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * the closest volcanoes are Mount Murphy, either 100 kilometres (62 mi)[9] or 170 kilometres (110 mi) north of Mount Takahe ... a 70-kilometer discrepcancy is begging for an explanation ??
 * Seems like that was a bog standard misreading; I've corrected it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * and is elongated in east–west direction. ... this is ungrammatical, but I don't know how to fix it.
 * Me neither; I've tried with a sentence split. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Is this however necessary ? Glacial erosion is not pronounced, however, with only a few corries cutting into the lower slopes. See Overuse of however.
 * I am not sure - it does sort of contradict the preceding item. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Snow is not linked on its first occurrence, rather its second ... but do snow and ice really need to be linked (WP:OVERLINK) ?
 * No; removed them. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Air temperatures recorded at Mount Takahe usually are below the freezing level,[38] wind appears to flow around the mountain. ... incorrect punctuation joining the two clauses, but I'm not sure why these two are in the same sentence.
 * I've split them; it was mostly to find a place for the wind sentence. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Not at all sure why there spaces inserted into basic number ranges; removed them all.
 * However, most of the volcano is believed to consist of mafic rocks ... is that "however" necessary ?
 * Probably yes, seeing as there is a contradiction. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Human activity?
One of the main things I became curious about once I opened this page was whether humans have ever climbed the mountain. However, the page currently only includes the single line Mount Takahe was first visited in 1957–1958 and again in 1968. "Visited" is quite vague—does it mean summitted, or that someone walked up to the base, or that they just flew by in a plane? And has there been any activity since 1968? It'd be nice if the article better addressed those questions. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 00:25, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Added another mention of 1985. Per LeMasurier et al. 1990 it appears that the outcrops in the summit region were visited in 1985-1985 but none of them coincides with the summit exactly. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:06, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Takahe


text:
Seneca (crater)

Seneca is a lunar impact crater that is located towards the east-northeastern limb, less than one crater diameter to the north of Plutarch. To the northwest is the crater Hahn, and due north lies the large walled plain Gauss.

This crater has been heavily eroded by impacts, with an outer rim that has been distorted and overlain by several small craters. It appears roughly diamond-shaped as viewed from above, although it is heavily foreshortened when seen from the Earth. A small crater lies along the western rim and inner wall. The small crater Seneca D is attached to the eastern exterior. There is also a smaller crater across the northern apex of the rim. The interior floor is somewhat irregular, particularly in the southern half.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Seneca.

title: Seneca (crater)


text:
Talk:Companding

Untitled

 * A diagram showing a non-linear ADC

Apparently Dolby uses a "locally linear" type like the standard audio compressor. I'm learning more about it... - Omegatron 19:03, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Companding and digital compression (data reduction) are not the same thing!
Removed the following irrelevant (and uncited) text from the article:

"Many of the music equipment manufacturers (Roland, Yamaha, Korg) used companding for data compression in their digital synthesizers. This dates back to the late 1980s when memory chips would often come as one of the most costly parts in the instrument. Manufacturers usually express the amount of memory as it is in the compressed form. i.e. 24MB waveform ROM in Korg Trinity is actually 48MB of data. Still the fact remains that the unit has a 24MB physical ROM. In the example of Roland SR-JV expansion boards, they usually advertised them as 8MB boards which contain '16MB-equivalent content'. Careless copying of the info and omitting the part that stated "equivalent" can often lead to confusion."

Reducing the number of bits to fit within a smaller storage device is (obviously) data reduction (also popularly referred to as "compression"), not to be confused with dynamic range reduction, which is what the "comp" in "companding" refers to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.115.32.222 (talk) 21:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

 * That is actually companding. Companding is a method of data compression because compression reduces the number of bits needed to store a signal digitally. Compress the dynamic range of the input signal for transfer, then expand it for output. Compansion is better than quantization because it retains greater S/N for low-level signals. Removing the paragraph for being uncited is reasonable, but that is a form of compansion and the distinction you are thinking of is actually irrelevant here. Compansion compresses data by compressing dynamic range. Radiodef (talk) 18:18, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Companding


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Tunne Kelam

Tunne-Väldo Kelam (born 10 July 1936) is an Estonian politician and former Member of the European Parliament (MEP) from Estonia. He is a member of the Pro Patria and Res Publica Union, part of the European People's Party.

Early life and education
After graduating from Tallinn 2. Secondary School in 1954 he studied history in the University of Tartu (1954–1959). He was a senior researcher in the State Central Archives in Tartu (1959–1965) and a senior scientific editor of the Estonian Soviet Encyclopaedia in Tallinn (1965–1975). From 1959 till 1970, as a member of the "Science" society, Kelam was also part-time lecturer and columnist on international relations.

Resistance to the Soviet occupation
In 1972 he prepared a memorandum to the UN on behalf of two underground citizens' groups, which asked for the UN assistance to evacuate the Soviet occupation forces and organize free elections. Smuggled out of the country, the memorandum caused lively interest in the West but resulted also in the wave of KGB repressions at home. Kelam narrowly escaped arrest but lost his job in the Encyclopaedia and all his public activities were suppressed. He stayed for the next dozen years under strict KGB surveillance but continued to operate half-underground, organizing unofficial opposition groups and passing to the West information about human rights violations in the Soviet occupied Estonia. From 1979 till 1987 Kelam was employed as a night-shift worker on a state poultry farm.

Political activity
By the end of the 1980s he had become one of the leading advocates for restoration of independence in Estonian society. In August 1988 Kelam became a founding member of the Estonian National Independence Party (ERSP, Eesti Rahvusliku Sõltumatuse Partei), the first non-Communist political party on the territory of the Soviet Union. In 1989 he emerged as one of the leaders of the Estonian Citizens' Committees Movement - a massive citizens' initiative in support of restoration of the independent nation state. In February 1990 Kelam was elected to the Congress of Estonia - a transition time representative body of Estonian citizens, which aspired for full-fledged independent statehood on the basis of the legal continuity of the Republic of Estonia. From 1990 to 1992 Kelam served as chairman of the Estonian Committee, an executive body of the Congress of Estonia. In August 1991 he was instrumental in achieving a national understanding with the Soviet Estonia's Supreme Council on the principles of restoring Estonian statehood.

Kelam was member of the Constitutional Assembly (1991–1992) and was elected to the first constitutional parliament, the Riigikogu, in 1992, where he served until 2004. He was a Vice Speaker of Riigikogu (1992–2003) and chairman of the European Affairs Committee (1997–2003).

As the last chairman of the conservative Estonian National Independence Party (1993–1995), Kelam led his party into merger with the National Coalition Party Pro Patria (1995), which resulted in creation of the centre-right Pro Patria Union. He succeeded Mart Laar as its chairman (2002–2005). In 2002–2003 he represented the Riigikogu in the Convention on the Future of Europe. He was elected to the membership of the European Parliament in 2004, in 2009 and in 2014.

He is also a board member of the Human Rights Institute (since 1997), the Kistler-Ritso Foundation (since 1998) which built the Museum of Occupations in Tallinn and was chief elder of the Estonian Scouting Association (1996–2007).

Kelam is a founding signatory of the Prague Declaration on European Conscience and Communism. (2008) and is one of the initiators of the European Parliament's resolution on European Conscience and Totalitarianism (2009). He also initiated the publication of the book "Reunification of Europe" (2009) which presents the 20th century experiences of ten post-Communist EU member states.

Decorations
Tunne Kelam has been decorated with the Estonian Order of the Coat of Arms, 1st class (2005), with the French Grand Officier de l'Ordre National du Merité (2001), with Robert Schuman medal and honorary diploma (2006), with the Baltic Parliamentary Assembly's Diploma and the Sash of Honour for the outstanding contribution to the restoration of independence (1999), with Rotary International Paul Harris award (1990) etc. He is honorary citizen of the State of Maryland (1991).

Personal life
Tunne Kelam is married to Mari-Ann Kelam, a politician and former press spokesman of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Estonia). He has a daughter from a previous marriage. Tunne Kelam's brother was composer Kuldar Sink.

Tunne Kelam has also written two books.

title: Tunne Kelam


text: Talk:Mount Waesche

title: Talk:Mount Waesche


text:
Spiritus intus alit

Spiritus intus alit may refer to:

 * a Latin phrase meaning the spirit nourishes within, from Virgil's Aeneid (VI, 726)
 * The motto of:
 * Clifton College
 * Inverurie Academy in Inverurie, Scotland

title: Spiritus intus alit


text:
Talk:Back to the Future/Archive 1

Tree Limb
I was watching the movie a while ago and noticed the tree in the town square was never hit by lighting. The Limb did fall, but it had to be age and/or wind that caused it to fall. --68.109.92.47 21:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

As of now, there is no mention of lightning striking the limb. Hondo 15:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Reagan
"... President Ronald Reagan, who used the movie's title as a catch phrase in his speeches ..."

Did he? I know he referred to the movie in his 1986 State of the Union Address:

 * "Never has there been a more exciting time to be alive, a time of rousing wonder and heroic achievement. As they said in the film Back to the Future, 'Where we're going, we don't need roads.'"
 * —wwoods 17:29, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Considered Role
The article states that Reagan "considered accepting a role in the third film as the 1885 mayor of Hill Valley." I have never heard of this, does anybody have a source?

YES, this is true. on the DVD commentary, it's revealed that reagan was a big fan of the first movie and was offered the role of mayor in the 3rd, but he turned it down

Please keep this article "Part 1" oriented
Shouldn't most of the info about the trilogy in general be moved to Back to the Future trilogy, so as to keep this page BTTF1 only? --DXI 23:33, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Totally agree. violet/riga (t) 23:37, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I am not sure I do agree to this, because it is a time travel trilogy it is somewhat unique in this case as in a sense the "nexus" point for all the movies is both 1985 and some of 1955. As such there will be moments that cross over in each movie that reference the other movies, and that should be mentioned and not ignored even in talking about the first movie. Ryokosha 19:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Sci-Fi or comedy?

 * Is Back to the Future sci-fi or comedy?- Masterwiki
 * I've always thought it was a bit of both.--PigManDan 17:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

50th Fictional Anniversary
Happy 50th fictional anniversary of the invention of time travel! --QQQ (Nov. 5, 2005)

The 50th anniversary of the invention of time travel is scheduled for November 5, 2035. November 5, 2005 is simply the anniversary of the invention of the flux capacitor.
 * But Doc Brown himself acknowledges the day in 1955 as the day he invented time travel...! Libatius 10:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

 * This is true as Doc Brown's line goes. When quieried by Marty about the significance of November 5th, 1955 Doc Brown's next line was, "It was the day I invented time travel." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Metamorphousthe (talk • contribs) 02:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

Time travel metaphysics according to BttF
Does anyone else take issue with the whole Marty fading out/boy cutting in on George scene at the dance being a mistake? Surely a key idea from the film is that while certain events are, for want of a better word, 'fated' to happen, (if certain events continue to unfold in the way they are) you still have the power to change your future, by the choices you make. Doc Brown says to Jennifer at the end of Part III that 'of course it's erased!...It means your future hasn't been written yet!' and that takes place after Marty has just avoided the car crash that would have ruined his life - what's important there is that he didn't know that that was the crash from the future, he made the choice not to race because of advice he'd received regarding not getting fired up everyone calls him a chicken. In the same way, I think it's perfectly reasonable to argue that George chose to cut back in (and thus save Marty's life once and for all) because he has also changed as a person, based on, in part, the advice he receives from Marty. Both events offer a fork, and each character is given a choice - it's not fated, there are just certain chains of events that are dependent on the decision they make. Hopefully that's not too garbled; if there's no objection I'll erase that 'mistake'. Libatius 10:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

does anyone know wth this means "In the original script, Marty's playing rock and roll at the dance caused a riot which had to be broken up by police. This, combined with Marty accidentally tipping Doc off to the "secret ingredient" that made the time machine work (Coca-Cola) caused history to change. When Marty got back to the 1980s, he found that it was now the 1950s conception of that decade, with air-cars and what-not (all invented by Doc Brown and running on Coca-Cola). Marty also discovers that rock and roll was never invented, and he dedicates himself to starting the delayed cultural revolution. Meanwhile, his dad digs out the newspaper from the day after the dance and sees his son in the picture of the riot. "

It's poorly worded and I have no clue what "1950s conception of that decade, with air-cars and what-not..." yadayada is supposed to mean

 * Hard to say. All but two or three lines was copied from IMDB's trivia section for the movie.  It seems that the original article was copied from IMDB (see history). PrometheusX303 13:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

 * By "1950s conception of that decade" they mean the 1980s as people in the 50s would have envisioned it. In the 80s (and even 90s) a lot of people thought we would be driving flying cars by 2000. Likewise, we have a certain conception of how the future will look like, in say 10 years, which is usually far more advanced than it turns out to be. Likewise, the future in Back to the Future II is pretty much a 1980s conception of 2015. But I think the filmmakers were aware of this. That's part of the fun with that movie :)
 * And btw Libatius, I would not try to make any sense out of the time travel in Back to the Future. It's completely inconsistent, with plot holes large enough to drive a truck through. The exact physics are largely beside the point of the story anyway. --Steerpike 13:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Doc gets killed
Just watched the scene on VH1. Or rather, I didn't watch it. They cut the part where Doc is seen being shot. PrometheusX303 01:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it was just a result of editing the movie to fit the time frame? 69.241.226.155 16:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

 * It was Marshall Strictland who was shot. According to the DVD section of The Making of the Trilogy and The Making of BttF Part 3, and the deleted portions commentary the scene was cut because they felt it was too graphic to have a character killed off in the movie. It would also put Marty in a perdicument of decisions of how he was to handle Bufford Tannen in the showdown. As evidenced to Bufford's final arrest by the Deputy Marshall, his arrest was due to the Pine City Stage robbery, but this line was dubbed in and you do not actually see the Deputy make this statement as the scene changes to Bufford Tannen. The original line was that Bufford Tannen was under arrest for the murder of Marshall Strictland. This is also evidenced by the fact that a Deputy is making the arrest and not Marshall Strictland himself. Metamorphousthe 02:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

OK... I think the original poster was talking about Doc being gunned down by the Libyans in Part 1, NOT anything from Part 3... Blozier2006 (talk) 04:17, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Too Much Trivia
It takes up about half the article, far too much. It ought to be either removed or truncated significantly. --  tariq abjotu  (joturner) 03:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree completely. Looks like someone basically took all the extras from the DVD and put them in the trivia section.  Way too excessive.  This section needs to be cut down.  I'd say it should be pared down to 1/4 it's current size.  CPitt76 01:13, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I edited the bulk of trivia out. Some were converted into the new "Production" section. If anyone thinks more should be cut out, feel free to do so. --Steerpike 10:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there such a thing as 'too much trivia'? Of course, I'd want stuff that's citable and accurate... but can trivia be excised simply because it's a lengthy section?  I don't know... After all, it would be in the right vein of an encycleopedic article. Kingpin1055 15:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think there is such a thing as too much trivia when it takes up such a huge chunk of the article. I haven't seen a lot of encyclopedia articles with trivia sections to begin with (other than on wikipedia, of course), so I'm not sure I agree with it being in the right vein.  If the info in that section is that important, maybe we can work it into the body of the article, like Steerpike did.    CPitt76 00:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

As for the Trivia section, which has just disappeared again, I agree that as much of this material as possible should appear in other relevant sections, and that the truly trivial trivia probably does not need to be in the article at all. To that end, I spent some time this afternoon working on this, but the remaining items, some of them kind of important IMO, are not merged but gone completely. Rather than play the inclusionist/deletionist game here, with some people constantly adding indiscriminate info and others periodically removing it - and perhaps more than should be removed - could we strive for a happy medium here? Please? I suggest that any trivia that someone wants to add should be subjected to the following questions first:

 * 1) Does the information already appear in the article? I've noticed that many people just pop stuff into trivia sections without reading the rest of the article, where the same material is frequently already covered.
 * 2) Can the information be usefully added to a section other than Trivia, or form the basis of a section of its own? For example, doesn't it make more sense for Reagan's fondness for the film be mentioned in one place rather than in two different sections? If it isn't relevant to the rest of the article, it may not be notable enough for inclusion.
 * 3) Is the information notable enough for inclusion in this article? Some items may be more relevant to related articles such as Hill Valley, Back to the Future timeline and so on.  Or it may not really be of sufficient importance or general interest to be included at all. I know we'll never all agree where that line should be drawn, but a little self-censorship may help us avoid both wholesale additions and wholesale deletions.

Finally, I do not feel personally that the "clean-up" header is appropriate at this stage to this B article. Yes, it needs constant tending to avoid getting too long and messy, but overall it really isn't in bad shape right now.

Regards.... Karen | Talk | contribs 23:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think this topic is worth getting up to 'Good' status. It needs more inline citations. I'm glad that the trivia section has gone. It sets a bad example and does allow people (usually anons) to add anything, especially copy and pastes from other sites. The JPS talk to me  14:00, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Now, this is something I wonder about. The vast majority of the information in this article comes either from the film itself or from the DVD commentaries and featurettes and the Secrets special. When it all comes from basically one source, or different parts of one source, what is the best way to cite it? I ask not just because of this article alone, but also because I've run into the same situation elsewhere.  Would the proper thing to be to compile a list of references, e.g. Zemeckis and Gale Q&A, Making of, Neil and Canton commentary, etc., and then point each chunk of text at one of them? Probably every scrap of it could be sourced (and not all to the DVD material), but would it be overkill to do so? Karen | Talk | contribs 20:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the best example for us is Jaws (film), which is a featured article and will appear on the main page later this week. It's bad practise, really, to just use one source in an article. We can cite the specific features (commentary/Q&A on Px, Secrets, etc.). We should also strive to use other sources. I have an old tie-in book that we could use, and there will be loads of good web sources. Inline citations are best so we can keep track or, and verify, what is changed or added. Otherwise we'd have to trawl through the list of references! For example, tonight's edit by an anon . How do we know what's correct? Is the anon correcting the info, or vandalising the page. If there were an citation next to it then we could immediately verify the change and probably revert with confidence. HTH The JPS talk to me  21:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed Trivia
I have moved the trivia section here because "trivia" sections in Wikipedia articles are extremely bad form. In an encyclopedia article, all information should be relevent not trivial. This information is still good but, it all should have a proper place within the article.--The_stuart 16:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000704/
 * Doc Brown's home, as shown from the exterior in 1955, is a real-life mansion in Pasadena, CA. Known as "Gamble House," it was designed by architects Greene & Greene in 1908 and built for David Gamble (of Procter & Gamble).
 * Marty starts his trip back in time in the parking lot of "Twin Pines Mall." Immediately arriving in 1955, he hits one of two pine trees.  When he returns to 1985, the sign now reads "Lone Pine Mall."
 * Doc breaks the ledge of the clocktower trying to reconnect the wire to the lampost in 1955. When Marty returns to the future, the ledge is still broken.
 * Doc Brown pronounces "gigawatt" as //. Although the prefix "giga-" can be pronounced as either // or //, the latter is much more common. According to the DVD commentary, the use of the variant pronunciation is due to Bob Gale and Robert Zemeckis hearing the word pronounced the former way at a science seminar.
 * The nuclear reactor that powers the time machine bears at least passing resemblance to the 1958 Ford Nucleon concept car.
 * Further commentary on the aforementioned fate error: It can be extrapolated that the boy cutting in on George and Lorraine's dance was not a fated event destined to occur at all. The boy cutting in was seen earlier in the film as one of several classmates who bullied George independently of Biff and his flunkies. When George knocks out Biff, the student body begins to perceive both of them in a different light, Biff no longer posing as great a threat as he may have to some. Therefore, George's action could have triggered three possibilities: (1) The boy cutting in could have decided to fill the void of Biff as a prominent school bully. (2) He could have been reacting to George's new empowerment and decided to challenge him. (3) He could have always wanted to harass Lorraine but could never do so knowing that Biff had his eyes on her, and now has his chance. (4) He is drunk and he's inside the party when the fight between Biff and George happened that's why he saw George as his same gullible school mate that everyone bullied. Any of these four scenarios would have been tied solely to George's knocking out Biff and therefore triggered by Marty's involvement.
 * The "present" events supposedly occur on October 26, 1985.
 * This movie managed to pull Hollywood out of a slump that lasted 17 weeks, making it one of the longest in film history. Nevertheless, total revenues for 1985 were 7% less than in 1984.
 * The video camera Marty uses in the film is a JVC camcorder GR-C1U.
 * The De Lorean's California license plates say "OUTATIME". California vanity plates are typically limited to seven characters.
 * The first movie's soundtrack features two songs from Huey Lewis & the News; Lewis also makes a cameo early in the movie, as a judge choosing bands for the Hill Valley High School Battle of the Bands.
 * When Marty poses as a spaceman to convince George to ask Lorraine to the school dance, he references three science fiction classics simultaneously in the line "My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan."
 * The movie that won the Academy Award for Best Picture of 1955, the year to which Marty McFly goes back in time, was called Marty; however, according to Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale, this is only a coincidence and was not a factor in naming the character.
 * The entrance to Marty's family's subdivision "Lyon Estates" is surrounded by lion statues, inspired by similar statues to the western entrance of the Delmar Loop in writer Bob Gale's home town University City, Missouri in St. Louis. Furthermore, the French sister city of St. Louis is Lyon. Gale was also able to name the local Hill Valley sports teams after his high school and junior high school teams.
 * The guitar that Marty plays at the dance is a Gibson ES-345 with a Bigsby vibrato unit. This guitar did not exist in 1955, and likely would not have been available with the Bigsby unit until about 1963.  Additionally, his guitar sound is very distorted — unusual for a mid-fifties amp before any guitar distortion methods had been used.
 * When Marty switches on Doc's amplifier in the first scene, the keyhole is marked 'CRM-114', a reference to the decryption device aboard the B-52 in Dr Strangelove.
 * The film was originally intended to be made by Disney, but Disney turned it down because they thought that the idea of a mother falling in love with her son (albeit in a twist of time) was too risqué.
 * In the opening sequence, when the camera pans through the many clocks in Doc Brown's house, one clock depicts silent film actor Harold Lloyd hanging from the minute hand of the clock in the clock tower, just as Doc Brown does at the end of the film.
 * When Marty watches television on November 5, 1955 with the Baines family, The Honeymooners episode "The Man from Space" is airing. However, this episode didn't actually air for the first time until December 31, 1955.
 * When Marty is trying to restart the DeLorean back in 1955, the car's headlights flash the Morse Code for "SOS".
 * Although it may be a mere coincidence, November the 5th happens to be the day that the Gunpowder Plot took place. Although the plot has no connections to the story, that day seems to be important in the movie.
 * The rifle that jams in the hands of the Libyan terrorist is an AK-47, which is famous worldwide for its extreme reliability. However, knockoffs of the model are ubiquitous.
 * When the Libyan in a van chase the DeLorean with Marty in it, the one shooting said: "Go!" to his fellow Libyan comrade. He should speak Arabic and not English.
 * Elijah Wood casting in Back to the future part II. He is the Video game boy, in Cafe 80.

Back to the Future: The Cameo
The forth part of back to the future was on spin city The Epesoide that sucked!!!!! Also the next storieS of back to the future was back to the future the series. - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bill bo (talk • contribs).

Product placement
Can anyone tell me what the shoes are called that Marty wears in 1985. Were they avaliable in the UK? crazy questions I have to ask, but mostly a name will do~ Marge4 15:14, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * In 1885, one of Buford's gang looks at Marty's sneakers and says, "What's that writing mean, NI-KE, is that some kind of Injun talk?" GUllman 21:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * They look like Nike Bruins... which I don't think you can easily get any more. --PigManDan 22:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia is not a forum. Please discuss the article.-- S U  I  T Halloween? 04:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe it should become a forum. If not, then create a forum for Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.67.31.251 (talk) 18:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Music/Soundtrack
What version of Mr. Sandman is in the song?
 * I think it's the Four Aces' version.--PigManDan 22:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia is not a forum, and all that so please discuss the article.-- S U  I  T Halloween? 04:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Goofs
I moved the goofs section because it needs work and looked out of place.

 * If the lightning bolt has 1.21 Gigawatts of electricity, and Doc gets shocked by the lightning, he should die, however, if you look close enough, he is wearing rubber gloves.
 * (If this is not a real goof, it shouldn't be here at all)

 * There are many differences between the scene at the mall, and the videotape of the mall.
 * Too vague.

 * It only takes about 25 seconds for the clock to move from 10:03, to 10:04.
 * Unless it was a continuous shot, we can't say that for certain.

 * A purple light on the set is reflected off the DeLorean when it's parked at the end of the town square.

 * Marty hits 87mph long before 10:04 PM, then when it's maybe 10 seconds to 10:04 PM, he's hitting 85 or so, but he's been accelerating all the time.
 * Difficult to understand.

 * Marty doesn't set off when Doc set the alarm clock in 1955, so he should be late for the lighting bolt.
 * The precise timing would be nearly impossible anyway.

 * The clock hands move from 10:02 to 10:03 twice.

 * Marty and Doc conclude from the flyer that a bolt of lightning will strike the clock tower at precisely 22:04:00, but the lightning could strike the tower at any point in time between into 22:04:00 and 22:04:59, which means that Doc's plan is likely to fail.
 * That is, unless the inner mechanism of the clock was examined. It may be possible to tell the time from that.

Where did these come from anyway? Prome theus  -X303-  04:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Generally I prefer to keep trivia sections and the like, but IMO you're right in this case. Most of this is picayune quibbling about the exact timing of the lightning strike scene, at least some of which can be explained away rather easily. If it should be here at all, then it is probably better to summarize, preferably with a citation to someone's published analysis or a DVD commentary or something like that. The mall "differences" are covered by the revised timeline premise, which is already covered in this article or the timeline one or both. Also, much of this is written in an informal style (i.e. with contractions) and would need to be revised anyway.  As for the rubber gloves bit, that was apparently one person explaining away another person's "goof." Karen | Talk | contribs 05:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

1.21 jiggawatts!!!
It's actually 1.21 not 1.23

At least this answers the question "What the hell is a Jiggawatt?" Vanduk 10:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops! Changed it. PrometheusX303 15:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Brown pronounced it "jiggawatt", but it is spelled gigawatt. It is a real unit of measure. PrometheusX303 19:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * In 1985 very few people had heard of a gigawatt, it is jiggawatt in the script, so it is jiggawatt in the film. although it probably is the same as the real measurment, please do not bastardise the script into your perfectionist fantasies! Marge4 15:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * In addition to this, I was just thinking about it, how can you put gigawatt in the article if in the film it is pronounced jiggawatt... this is sci-fi! not real life! why the hell is it gigawatt and not jiggawatt. this is really making me upset and I have no idea why. I wish bad things upon you all! Marge4 15:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Bob Gale wrote the time travel technobabble after listening to various science lectures, so it was intended to be the real unit of measurement that he heard spoken. The subject of this article is the film, not the script for the film in which was mispelled so that the actors would consistently pronounce the word the way Bob heard it in the lectures. GUllman 21:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

AK-47 clones
"The rifle that jams in the hands of the Libyan terrorist is an AK-47, which is famous worldwide for its extreme reliability. However, knockoffs of the model are ubiquitous."

This implies it may be an unreliable AK-47 clone. Were AK47 variants actually generally less reliable than the AK-47? --Howdybob 16:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Jumpy lead
The lead paragraph of this article needs a complete overhaul. It jumps around from 1985 to 2002 back to 1985 and so forth. I know this is an article about a time travel film, but no need to make the rader feel like they're in a time machine! I think it should be put into a more logical chronological order. - Mike 01:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the article a bit for tense changes and usage, described the guitar hero sequence a little better, expounded a little on what differences Marty sees between the two eras, and shoved several genres into the opening sentence. Feel free to cut back on that last edit if it's excessive or unclear, but part of the strength of this film is the multiple genres it encompasses. I did not remove the clean-up tag, but I think it's probably in pretty good shape at this point. Karen | Talk | contribs 07:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Plot summary could be condensed
Does anyone else think that the plot summary is too detailed? --GHcool 07:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I would agree - it needs to be summarized. — Wackymacs 10:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. The JPS talk to me  12:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The length of the plot summary seems to be a continual problem. The film itself has a fairly dense and intricate plot, and it seems that everyone who stops by wants to include every favorite detail (which is all of them). If we are going to continue to try to keep the section from expanding, perhaps someone can explain why on this Talk page.  I just reverted a nice long edit - nothing really wrong with it except length - and leaves me feeling like a bit of a meanie! Karen | Talk | contribs 06:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Not every labour of love belongs on Wikipedia. If for nothing else, at least the author got some writing practice. Chris Cunningham 09:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the plot summary--with apologies to earlier authors, it seemed a bit difficult to follow in places, and there were several bits of stuff that really don't figure that prominently into the plot (i.e. the Chuck Berry reference, not really integral to the storyline). I tried to keep it concise (about 765 words) and on-topic...Benscripps 02:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Bole2 appears to have gone through and changed much of what I wrote; I have no personal attachment to it, but pseudo-sentences like "After returning to his own time and watches the Libyans shoot Doc." are exactly why I rewrote the thing in the first place. My rewrite is in the history, should anyone want to restore or draw from it.  I thought it was pretty clean and concise, summing up the major plot points, keeping only those points necessary for reference in the summary.  Best of luck...Benscripps 17:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I'll have a look at further condensing this and cleaning up awkward sentences later on. Many thanks for your efforts here. Chris Cunningham 17:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Parts II and III
This section is a bit long-winded and I don't really understand the final sentence. Can someone rephrase it?

"The makers assume that people were put off by Part II and hence III as well because they had not expected for II to continue for yet another episode. Thus the Part II cliffhanger came about, and people did not want to buy a ticket to see a movie without an ending. This is blamed for the (somewhat) disappointing box office. While the producers wanted to market Parts II and III together as a trilogy, Universal Studios preferred it the other way round."
 * I think what they are saying is that people liked how Part I ended because it was a complete movie in itself but also left an obvious door open for another movie, with Doc Brown and Marty going to the future, however there never needed to be another movie to finish the story started in the first movie. In Part II they end it just when Marty is going to ask Doc Brown's help to well get to "the other" Doc Brown back in 1885, which means to see the end to see if Doc Brown was rescued, was left behind, or something else you needed to see Part III. Part II was not in that sense a movie with a beginning and a complete ending.

 * I can see people being upset about that alone, but even more so Back to the Future Part II was also sort of three movies in one, whereas Part I had one basic plot, Marty has to get his parents back together, Part II had Marty helping his kids, Marty fixing his error at buying the sports fact book by getting it back from Biff, then the DeLorean struck by lightening and vanishing in time which was only the start of the third plot and not a true ending for the movie in some people's eyes. Once that got out people it seems didn't want to see Part II then wait an unknown amount of time to see how part of the plot started in that movie ends. Bob Gale and Neil Canton probably knew this was a possibility and therefore wanted to market Part II and Part III as almost the same movie something you can see around the same time, but Universal saw the chance at two movie sequels to one of the most popular movies of 1985 and thought perhaps more money from having them as two then as marketing them as one movie broken in two parts.

 * Did that help clear things up a bit or just confuse them more? Ryokosha 20:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

The Honeymooners info
Here's a bit of trivia you may want to work into the article - the episode of The Honeymooners shown in the movie is "The Man from Space." One small problem is that while that scene in the movie takes place on November 5, 1955, that episode of the show didn't air for the first time until December 31, 1955. --cholmes75 (chit chat) 18:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I imagine Zemeckis and Gale chose it for its similarity to the Peabody Farm and Darth Vader of Vulcan scenes rather than its historical air date. At least the series itself had premiered by then. Chalk the rest up to the difference between all the BTTF timelines and our own. ;) Thanks for adding the episode info! Karen | Talk | contribs 20:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

To Be Continued...?
I realize I was only 11 at the time, but I distinctly remember "To Be continued..." being in the film as released in the theater. I know it's easy to "back-remember" somethign like that, but does anyone have any other sources besides the one listed that verifies that this was only added in the video/laserdisc release? --69.231.140.134 05:39, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The original film never had "To be continued" in it. Zemeckis and Gale have both said they never intended it to be a trilogy and they sort of painted themselves into a corner with the cliffhanger ending.  "To be continued" is only stated at the end of PART 2 because PART 3 was in production at the same time. -- mcflytrap 12:52, 04 January 2006

 * Slight correction: "To be continued" was added to the home video of Part One when Part 2 was in production. Part 2 had "To be Concluded" because Part 3 was already in production (was made at essentially the same time as Part 2). I know you meant to say that, right? ;) I know it's all covered in a commentary or one or more of the other extras, but I didn't turn it up in a quick scan for it last week. Karen | Talk | contribs 18:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * OK, I guess I was wrong. Like I said, I know it's easy to "recover memories" like that, but it seems so clear in my mind. :) --69.231.140.134 18:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Zemeckis and Gale may have stated that they never intended for it to be a trilogy, but I did see the movie at the theatre and I am certain that it did have "To Be Continued" at the end. Such a statement at the end of a movie implies a continuing story, but does not state that a sequal is forthcoming.  Conversely, Star Wars was intended to have sequals but was written as a self contained movie in the event that it did not bring enough money in at the box office.  Similarly, History of the World Part 1 was never intended to have a part 2 in spite of the title.--RedKnight 22:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Film poster
Does anyone know what that object next to Marty is in the poster for the film? It's obviously supposed to be the time machine, but it doesn't look anything like how the DeLorean appears in the movie, front or back. Is it supposed to be a reference to the "time fridge" from the early scripts, or something else entirely? 75.108.121.142 01:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What object? You mean the whitish thing to the left that kind of bends over top? That would be the gull-wing door of the car. Wahkeenah 03:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The DeLorean's engine
This passage, from the second paragraph of the section The DeLorean time machine, may be self-contradictory:

 * "The DeLorean used in the trilogy was a 1982 DMC-12 model, modified to accommodate a more powerful and reliable Porsche engine. The base for the nuclear-reactor was made from the hubcap from a Dodge Polara. In the 2002 Special-Edition DVD of the BTTF Trilogy, it is incorrectly stated that the DeLorean had a standard 4-cylinder engine. The only engine available on this car was a 130 HP V6."

Did it have a Porsche engine or did it have a stock DeLorean engine? Some Porsche models in production at the time BTTF was filmed had four-cylinder engines, so if a Porsche engine was used, it is indeed possible that the DeLorean used for the film had a four-cylinder. Can someone with background knowledge on the film confirm/deny this for certain? - Pennyforth 20:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Copernicus Brown
Should this character be added to the listing of Brown family? 71.229.26.210 05:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Who? Copernicus is the name of 1955 Doc's dog. -Kingpin1055 12:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Continuity

 * Zemeckis later stated that had sequels been envisioned, the first film would not have ended with Jennifer traveling in the DeLorean with Marty and Doc, which created logistical problems in plotting the other films.

What is the logistical problem here? I can't really remember the details of the movies that well. I have read several of the articles but the logistical problem is not clear. I know a different actor had to be used for Jennifer but I don't see this as being a logistical problem since there was surely no way they knew the actor was going to quit acting Nil Einne 15:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Also is there any mention of why they gave the ending such a cliffhanger? Nil Einne 15:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Lead and cast trim
Is there maybe too little info in these sections now? Buc 21:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

 * No? It'd be nice for an article on a film to actually have a balance of sections for a change, instead of just being a huge plot reiteration followed by a page-long list of "...in popular culture" references. I think the current article does a good job of getting the plot and so on out without necessarily ruining it for people. In fact I'd encourage even more reduction. Chris Cunningham 08:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The Back to the future ride is actually not closed as of today (July 9, 2007). I was recently at Universal Studios Hollywood and observed a sign that stated that the ride would close on September 3rd, 2007. 66.133.224.152 06:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)Daniel

IMDB plagarism?
It appears tha some of the information in this article is plagerized (that is, lifted verbatim ar almost verbatim) from IMDB's site about the movie, specifically from their trivia section. Then again, it is also possible, although less likely, that they plagarized some of the BTTF articles. Someone should probably look into that. 72.86.13.254 08:48, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

timeline
AHD lists time-line (hyphenated). Merriam-Webster's list time line (separate) with timeline (one word) meaning a time table. And Dictionary.com lists it as time line (seperate) words with possible alternate timeline(one word). Cambridge University Press's online dictionary doesn't include any form. MSN Encarta online dictionary only has time line (two words). The only dictionary I found that prefers it as one word was wiktionary. Maybe you should have looked in a dictionary Hegria. I looked in 6.--Shadowdrak 00:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've seen dictionaries claiming that anarchy means the same thing as chaos, and that pagan means the same thing as heathen. Dictionaries are not authorities on everything, and they are most definitely not authorities on science fiction terms. - Ugliness Man 03:25, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Corey Hart
Did you know Corey Hart was offered to star as Marty McFly in BTTF and he REFUSED? No? Well now you know it. Maybe this bit should be in the article, too. :p -andy 62.134.225.61 14:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I thought that they always had Fox in mind from the beginning and originally casted Hart but replaced him when Fox became available? Jjj222 14:34, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The only "verification" I can find for this is the fact that it's been included in several questionable and unverified "did you know?" trivia lists. According to official, verifiable sources, Fox was the first actor considered for the role, and he turned it down because he was too busy with Family ties.  Eric Stolz was then cast in the role, but he didn't work out, so they tried Fox again, and he decided to give it a shot.  Corey Hart is not mentioned in any of the commentaries or interviews on the DVD boxed set, or in any other reliable source.  And I must point out that even if this nugget of trivia appears on a few dozen web pages, that's not the same thing as a reliable source (since you could find just as many web pages that claim "a duck's quack does not echo, and nobody knows why", which also isn't true). - Ugliness Man 03:23, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyediting?
This page is marked for copy-editing, but looking over it and it's talk page I am not sure whether it's ready. The 'Themes' area says that there are unverified claims, and there appears to be a lot of dicussion yet to be resolved. Are you people ready for me to work it over, or would it be preferable if I came back in a week or so? Best Regards.--Song 22:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Corrections that still need to be done
I corrected parts of the article that were not grammatically correct. There are a few things I observed but did not change.

 * Visiting the home of his eccentric friend, scientist "Doc" Emmet Brown, he finds no one home, but receives a phone call from Doc asking to meet him that night.

This sentence does not sound good and shoul be reworked, mostly because the word but should introduce something that contrasts with a preceding sentence.

 * Marty explores the Hill Valley of 1955 ...

This sentence is not sufficient to create the transition from 1985 to 1955. There should be at least one additional sentence to introduce Marty's travel through time before this sentence.

 * The inspiration for the film largely stems from Bob Gale, who discovered his father's high school yearbook and wondered whether he would have been friends with his father as a teenager.

The words he and friends do not go together well in terms of structure so the sentence needs to be modified.

ICE77 -- 84.223.76.72 15:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay, I'll keep those in mind while editing. Thanks.--Song 21:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * About your second suggestion: will the sentence 'He is sent 30 years into the past, a stranger in a world no longer his own.' work there? About all I can say for it is that is provides a transition and appeals to my sense of mystery. If you have a better idea I'm open.--Song 22:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd say it interprets and dramatizes the situation too much for an encyclopedia. I cleaned up the paragraph, leaving out trivia that is not essential for the plot. GUllman 01:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd have to agree with you on that. I'm on the 'Production' section: out of courtesy it would be nice if you didn't that section while I'm working on it. See the template at the top of the page. Thank you.--Song 02:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

That's all I can handle for tonight. I'll finish it up in the morning.--Song 05:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Themes
Is the Themes section noteworthy of being put here in the article? Despite those two citations, much of it is apparently opinionated. I'm thinking of erasing it altogether. Then again, I may be wrong. Eaglestorm 02:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it would be noteworthy enough if the section were rewritten so as to more clearly reflect what the filmmakers' intentions were and there is certainly enough supplementary material on the DVD's for citing that. And, yes, I admit that I was the one who created the section in the first place, but I did try to keep it objective and cite everything I could. However, there are clearly motifs/themes/whatever-you-want-to-call-them in the film even if an exact citation can't be found. I mean, is there an exact quote from Orson Welles confirming the wide-accepted symbolism of "Rosebud"? Hegria66 06:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I sense that this section keeps drifting toward in-universe statements as if the movie documents the history of a real town of Hill Valley. See Manual_of_Style_%28writing_about_fiction%29. We need to keep a filmmaker/scriptwriter's point of view in this section.  For example, I once noted in this section that the filmmakers use running gags throughout the movies, but this statement has disappeared while examples of these one-liners are added as important plot points. Also, leading statements like "Compare Pleasantville" just invite the reader to do original research. GUllman 02:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Back to the Future/Archive 1


text: Talk:Aracar

title: Talk:Aracar


text:
John Howard Payne

John Howard Payne (June 9, 1791 – April 10, 1852) was an American actor, poet, playwright, and author who had nearly two decades of a theatrical career and success in London. He is today most remembered as the creator of "Home! Sweet Home!", a song he wrote in 1822 that became widely popular in the United States and the English-speaking world. Its popularity was revived during the American Civil War, as troops on both sides embraced it.

After his return to the United States in 1832, Payne spent time with the Cherokee Indians in the Southeast and interviewed many elders. Intending to write about them, he amassed material about their culture, language and society, which have been useful to scholars. But his published theory that suggested their origin as one of the Ten Lost Tribes of ancient Israel has been thoroughly disproved. At that time, European Americans were still strongly influenced by a Biblical basis of history in trying to understand origins of the peoples in the Americas.

Friends helped gain Payne's appointment in 1842 as American Consul to Tunis, where he served for nearly 10 years until his death. Although he was first buried there, in 1883 his remains were returned to the United States and buried in Washington, D.C. This was paid for by philanthropist W. W. Corcoran. In 1970 Payne was posthumously inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

Early life and education
John Howard Payne was born in New York City on June 9, 1791, one of seven sons among nine children. Early in his childhood, the family moved to Boston, Massachusetts, where his father headed a school. The family also spent time at his grandfather's colonial-era house in East Hampton, New York, which was later preserved in honor of Payne. As a youth, Payne showed precocious dramatic talent, but his father tried to discourage that path. After the death of an older son, his father installed young Payne, age 13, in his late brother's position at the same accountants' firm in New York, but Payne showed he had no mind for commerce.

Payne's interest in theater was irrepressible. He published the first issue of The Thespian Mirror, a journal of theater criticism, at age 14. Soon after that, he wrote his first play, Julia: or the Wanderer, a comedy in five acts. Its language was racy, and it closed quickly. But Payne's work on The Thespian Mirror had caught the attention of William Coleman, the editor of the New-York Evening Post. He believed that Payne showed promise to contribute to the city's cultural future, and sought a sponsor to support Payne's college education. John E. Seaman, a wealthy New Yorker, took on that financial responsibility. Columbia University was ruled out because of proximity to the distraction of young actresses, and even the College of New Jersey (as Princeton was then known) was considered too close to the city. They selected Union College in Schenectady, New York. Novelist Charles Brockden Brown, an active promoter of New York City, accompanied the young Payne upstate as far as Albany.

Payne started a college paper called the Pastime, which he kept up for several issues. When he was 16, his mother died, and the academy run by his father was failing. Payne, unhappy in his "exile" at Union, left at Easter to be with his family. He told his grieving father that he was dropping out of college to pursue a stage career. On February 24, 1809, he made his debut at the old Park Theatre in New York in the eponymous role of Young Norval. Scoring a brilliant success, he went on to become the first American actor to play Hamlet; regarded as a prodigy, he was regaled as a home town wonder when he returned to Boston, among other major cities where he toured. His appearances as Romeo to Eliza Poe, Edgar Allan Poe's mother, won particular acclaim, and he favored her to play opposite him in comedies. But despite his success, he had difficulty getting paid by the theaters. In a brief interval away from the theatre, he founded the Athenaeum, a circulating library and reading room.

Payne was friends with Sam Colt and his brother John C. Colt; the latter was accused of murdering printer Samuel Adams. Payne was a character witness at John Colt's murder trial. Colt was convicted and sentenced to death, but Payne acted as a witness in his wedding ceremony to Caroline Henshaw, which took place on the morning of Colt's scheduled execution.

Career
Befriended by the English tragedian George Frederick Cooke, who appeared with Payne in King Lear at New York's Park Theatre, Payne decided to seek recognition in London's theatre world, and he sailed across the Atlantic in February 1813.

Although London had numerous actors, Payne quickly drew praise in his engagements at Drury Lane and Covent Garden. Next he performed in Paris. Resuming his interest in playwriting, he wrote original plays, and also adapted and translated a variety of French works for production in England. In 1818, he sold his Brutus, which gained much respect. But a constant need for money led him to expand into theater management at Sadler's Wells Theatre, an endeavor that clearly proved it was not among his skills.

In 1823, Payne sold a group of his plays to Charles Kemble, the manager of Covent Garden Theatre, for £230. But, the first that Kemble chose to stage was already being produced elsewhere. Payne considered this a minor hurdle. By tinkering with the plot and adding song lyrics, Payne transformed it into an operetta he entitled Clari; or the Maid of Milan. Among the new material was "Home, Sweet Home," a reworking of a poem he had written as a Union College student. This song helped make the operetta an instantaneous success and Payne a famous man. Set to music Sir Henry Bishop adapted from an Italian folk tune, the song ensured Payne's lasting fame, The sheet music rapidly sold 100,000 copies, earning its publishers £2,100 net profit in the first year. Years later, when the Lincoln family was mourning the death of their son, the president asked that the song be played repeatedly at the White House. As was typical throughout his career, however, Payne realized only meager profits from its enormous popularity. "While his money lasted, he was a prince of bohemians", but had little business sense.

While in Europe, Payne had several romantic interests, including a brief infatuation with Mary Shelley, Shelley's young widow and the author of Frankenstein. He lost interest when he realized she hoped only to use him to attract the notice of his friend, Washington Irving. Payne never married.

1832 Return to the US and study of the Cherokee
Leaving Europe after nearly two decades, Payne returned to the United States in 1832. Friends arranged a benefit concert in New York to try to help him earn a stake to get resettled. He also toured the country with artist and naturalist John James Audubon.

Desperate to earn income by writing for periodicals, Payne sought to exploit public interest in the Cherokee people. He traveled south to Georgia as the guest of the Cherokee Chief John Ross in 1836 to gain acquaintance with the tribe. It was under great pressure by Georgia and the United States to remove to Indian Territory west of the Mississippi River. While staying with Ross, Payne was arrested and briefly imprisoned by Georgia authorities, as his visit was considered suspicious. When one of the soldiers sang "Home, Sweet Home," Payne mentioned that he had written it. This resulted in an intercession by General Edward Harden of Athens, to whom Payne had a letter of introduction, and officials released Payne.

What Payne found was contrary to his naive expectations. He admired the Cherokee achievements and developed a strong sympathy for their plight, as all the Southeast tribes were under pressure for Indian Removal to west of the Mississippi River, in what was then known as Indian Territory. President Andrew Jackson used US troops to forcibly accomplish this removal in 1838-1839, which became known as the tribe's Trail of Tears.

Payne lobbied Congress on behalf of the Cherokee. He also amassed a voluminous amount of research on their constitution, written language, customs, myths, food, and history of the tribe. Most of his papers were never published. He tried to advance the theory that the Cherokee were one of the ten lost tribes of Israel. Other figures of the early American period, such as Benjamin Franklin, shared the belief that Native Americans were descended from such a tribe, as their conception of history was based on the Bible. Payne specifically believed that he had found similarities between the Cherokee language and ancient Hebrew. The Cherokee and other American Indians have been thoroughly proven to have ancient origins in eastern Asia. But, Payne's study and papers have been an important source of information on Cherokee language and culture for subsequent scholars.

During his early years, Payne became known as a prominent literary and theater figure. He was closely associated with writer Washington Irving, with whom he collaborated on five plays. He is described as one of the more gifted young poets of his generation in the Cambridge History of American Poetry. But he chose other areas to develop, as poetry paid almost nothing at the start of the nineteenth century.

Last years in North Africa
In 1842, President John Tyler appointed Payne as the American Consul in Tunis, due in part from support from statesman William Marcy and Secretary of State Daniel Webster. They had been moved by his famous song and wanted to help him. Payne served twice in North Africa (the area of present-day Tunisia). He died in Tunis in 1852 and was buried there in St. George's Protestant Cemetery.

Late celebration
"[N]ever was a dead poet so famous for a single song, or so honored." Payne's song was widely sung during the American Civil War, when it was treasured by troops of both the North and the South. It was also a particular favorite of President Abraham Lincoln. He asked Italian opera star Adelina Patti to perform it for him and his wife when the diva appeared at the White House in 1862. The Lincolns were still mourning the death of their son Willie.

Philanthropist W. W. Corcoran of Washington, D.C., arranged for Payne's reinterment in his last home city. (He was the founder of the Corcoran Gallery.) In February 1883, Payne's remains were disinterred and brought to the U.S. by the steamer Burgundia, sailing from Marseilles. In New York, the coffin with Payne's remains was received with honors and transported by black funeral hearse to City Hall, where it was held in state while several thousand people visited the hall to pay respects. For a day, all the papers were filled again with the story of his life, for "his song is that one touch of nature which makes the world kin. It is the frailest thread of which fame was ever spun." The remains were transported to Washington, D.C., and held for services on the anniversary of Payne's birth in June.

A memorial service marked the reinterment of Payne's remains at Oak Hill Cemetery in the Georgetown neighborhood. (Corcoran had founded this cemetery, where many Civil War veterans were buried.) The memorial service was held on the 91st anniversary of Payne's birth and was attended by President Chester A. Arthur, members of his cabinet, the State Department, and the Supreme Court; the Marine Band, and a crowd of 2,000-3,000 that included numerous literary and other prominent people. Organizers arranged for a full choir to sing "Home, Sweet Home."

Legacy and honors

 * 1873: A bronze bust of Payne was installed with a public ceremony in Prospect Park, Brooklyn.
 * 1883: Payne's ashes were brought back to the United States, received with honors and held in state at New York's City Hall. They were reinterred in a ceremony in Washington, D.C., on the 91st anniversary of his birth.
 * Circa 1890s: Payne's grandfather's home on James Lane in East Hampton was preserved by Gustav Buek, a wealthy admirer of the poet, and identified as "Home Sweet Home" in Payne's honor. Payne spent time there as a child.
 * 1970: John Howard Payne was posthumously inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Also inducted was his distant cousin, parlor song composer Carrie Jacobs-Bond, born in 1862.

title: John Howard Payne


text:
Talk:Mount Bartle Frere

Assessment comment
Substituted at 00:29, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Should the death of Brett Darren Thomas be included in this article?
During a recent visit to the walking track of Mt Bartle Frere I came across a well maintained shrine for Brett Darren Thomas. The only information about him that I could find is from this news article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-16/police-probe-bushwalker-death/3674122.

Here is a photo of the shrine:

Would it be appropriate to include information about this in this article?

Mrpalermo (talk) 21:33, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Bartle Frere


text:
Talk:Mount Baw Baw

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title: Talk:Mount Baw Baw


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Talk:Mount Bogong

Untitled
Hello, anyone going to engage me in passionate debate about this article? --Joesydney 09:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Um why? Its hardly a controversial article... -Shogun 12:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. I remember you.--Joesydney 10:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, mountain height is incorrect in text at the start. Please correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.69.114.52 (talk) 03:46, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Moths
The hill called Mt Bogong is NOT THE Bogong Mtn where the 1830s moth feasts were recorded. THE Mount Bogong is near Gundagai. Th e location likely was deliberatly moved when the intended Vic/NSW border was moved from the Murrumbidgee to the Murray as the Brits wouldnt have known where was what in that era. -Johneen Jones- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.139.221.178 (talk) 23:08, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Mount Bogong


text:
Talk:Mount Canobolas

Wrong claim
Mount Bartle Frere and Mount Bellenden Ker are also further west than Mount Canobolas and taller. Who knows how many others? The claim of Mount Canobolas being tallest between XXX and Africa is a wanky statement (and factually incorrect). If someone else doesn't take it out I will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.236.41.53 (talk) 09:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The tallest mountain claim is a dubious one. It might take some creative wording to give it more accuracy. Some of the other mentioned mountains such as Bartle Frere and Bogong, if they are further west, are still part of the Great Dividing Range, which Mount Canobolas is not. Also with regards to the Northern Territory and South Australia peaks, they may not be volcanic peaks such as Mount Canobolas is. It may be the case that Mount Canobolas can be described as the highest volcanic mountain inland from the eastern sea board Great Dividing Range across to the Indian Ocean. Claims about the highest peak across to Africa might work if you were talking about drawing a straight line east-west through Mount Canobolas and saying that was the case, however it otherwise ignores the numerous peaks such as through Indonesia and other parts of the Indian Ocean. Ajayvius (talk) 02:18, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Joshua Phillips? Who's he?
The article claims Mt Canobolas was first climbed by "a bloke from Orange, QLD. Joshua Phillips..." This sounds like a fake insert to me. There is no citation. Google turns up no such person. The use of the word "bloke" suggests non-professionalism, and Orange is the town adjacent the mountain, in New South Wales, not Queensland. Google does find a young man who was a student in Orange in recent years, and who now lives in Queensland, but nothing connected to thus claim. I am deleting this portion. Ptilinopus (talk) 07:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Elevation
The text and the info box cite the same source, but give different figures for the elevation. Given the same source, you would think they would agree! Ptilinopus (talk) 23:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Canobolas


text:
Talk:Cradle Mountain

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Vehicle Certification Agency

The Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) is an executive agency of the United Kingdom Department for Transport, and is the UK's type approval authority.

VCA has been supporting the automotive industry since the early 1970s, with offices in the UK, North America, Brazil, Japan (Asia Pacific), Korea, China, Italy, India and Australia.

The services that VCA provide include type approval testing and certification for all road-going vehicles, including cars, trucks, motorcycles, agricultural vehicles, buses and coaches, ambulances, fire engines and motor caravans, and replacement part systems and components.

VCA are also responsible for the production of the New Car Fuel Consumption and Emission Figures. This information is made available through an online database containing the latest fuel consumption and emissions data for new cars. The site also includes tools to help users to calculate vehicle tax.

title: Vehicle Certification Agency


text:
Tacchini (crater)

Tacchini is a lunar impact crater on the northwestern edge of the Mare Smythii, near the eastern limb of the Moon. It was named after Italian astronomer Pietro Tacchini. It lies just to the south of the prominent crater Neper, and was designated Neper K before being given its current name by the IAU. To the west-southwest of Tacchini is the crater pair of Schubert and Back.

This crater is roughly circular in form, with a rim that is better defined along the eastern side. The northwestern half of the floor is elevated, along the side where ejecta from the younger Neper intrudes into the interior. There is a pair of small craters along the northwestern inner wall.

title: Tacchini (crater)


text: Talk:Mount Lindesay (Queensland)

title: Talk:Mount Lindesay (Queensland)


text:
Talk:Mount Keira

Untitled
hhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy

I added two pictures showing key points on the mountain, will do some research on other information i can add when i get back to my house down there. Virtual circuit 11:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Walking Tracks
IMHO this section is too long, reads like a tourist brochure (eg "Near this is an oddly out of place lemon tree") and contains a sprinkling of historical and other facts that would be better in designated sections. I propose (one day) to cull this section and reorganise the relevant parts. Any comments or objections ? Grogan deYobbo (talk) 05:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Nearby Mountains
Marked Nearby Mountains section as off-topic. Suggest this be moved to either Mount Nebo (New South Wales) and/or Illawarra escarpment, or simply deleted altogether. Grogan deYobbo (talk) 06:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Section deleted. Grogan deYobbo (talk) 05:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

-

"At the summit is the Mountaintop Restaurant, used for food, drink and function purposes." I think the restaurant has been decommissioned, it looks abandoned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.225.6.102 (talk) 00:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Mount Keira


text:
The Songlines

The Songlines is a 1987 book written by Bruce Chatwin, combining fiction and non-fiction. Chatwin describes a trip to Australia which he has taken for the express purpose of researching Aboriginal song and its connections to nomadic travel. Discussions with Australians, many of them Indigenous Australians, yield insights into Outback culture, Aboriginal culture and religion, and the Aboriginal land rights movement.

Synopsis
Chatwin develops his thesis about the primordial nature of Aboriginal song. The writing engages the hard conditions of life for present-day Indigenous Australians, while appreciating the art and culture of the people for whom the Songlines are the touchstone of reality. The book's first half chronicles the main character's travels through Outback Australia and his various encounters, while the second half is dedicated to his musings on the nature of man as nomad and settler.

Thesis
Chatwin asserts that language started as song, and in the Aboriginal Dreamtime, it sang the land into existence for the conscious mind and memory. As you sing the land, the tree, the rock, the path, they come to be, and the singers are one with them. Chatwin combines evidence from Aboriginal culture with modern ideas on human evolution, and argues that on the African Savannah, we were a migratory species hunted by a dominant feline predator. Our wanderings spread "songlines" across the globe (generally from southwest to northeast), eventually reaching Australia, where they are now preserved in the world's oldest living culture.

Reactions
The New York Times review praised the book as "[Chatwin's] bravest book yet", observing that it "engages the full range of the writer's passions" and that "each of his books has been a different delight [and] feast of style and form", but noted that Chatwin failed to bridge the "inevitable" "distance between a modern sensibility and an ancient one" in representing the Aboriginal relationship to their land, and did not sufficiently clearly establish the nature of the Songlines themselves, despite Chatwin's "quoting pertinently" from Giambattista Vico and Heidegger, and while acknowledging the difficulty of so doing, concluded that he ought to have "found some way to make the songs accessible" to the reader. Chatwin's "vision", though "exhilarating", could also at times seem "naive" and "unhistorical"; the review concluded that, nevertheless, Chatwin "remains one of our clearest, most vibrant writers".

John Bayley, in a review for the London Review of Books, called the book "compulsively memorable", but observed the difficulty encountered by the anthropologist in his representation of a culture such as the Aboriginal one Chatwin dealt with: "describing [their] life and beliefs... falsifies them [and] creates a picture of unreality... seductively comprehensible to others"; Chatwin "makes no comparison or comment, and draws no conclusions, but his reader has the impression that anthropologists can't do other than mislead." He however praised "the poetry" of Chatwin's "remarkable pages"; and considered that "the book is a masterpiece".

In The Irish Times, Julie Parsons, after consideration of the difficulties encountered by Chatwin—"born, raised and educated in the European tradition"—in apprehending the nature of the relationship between the Aborigines and the land on which they live, notes that as the reader follows his narrative, they "realise the impossibility of Chatwin's project. The written word cannot express this world", but the book is read nevertheless "with pleasure and fascination. We read it to learn how little we know."

Rory Stewart, in The New York Review of Books, observed that the book "transformed English travel writing", praising his "concision" and "erudition", and acknowledging Chatwin's inspirational character and the view of The Songlines as "almost... a sacred text", leading Stewart and others to travel and "arrange... life and meaning"; he noted that whereas his own travels were at times "repetitive, boring, frustrating", "this is not the way that Chatwin describes the world", nor experienced it. Despite Stewart's conclusion that "today... [his] fictions seem more transparent" and that Chatwin's "personality... learning... myths, even his prose, are less hypnotizing", he considers that "he remains a great writer, of deep and enduring importance." Of particular note was Chatwin's representation of the Aboriginal people he encountered; despite the hardships of their daily existence—sickness, addiction, unemployment—"they are not victims... they emerge as figures of scope, and challenging autonomy."

Literary references
The character Arkady refers to Australia as "the country of lost children". This was used as the title for Peter Pierce's 1999 book The Country of Lost Children: An Australian Anxiety.

title: The Songlines


text:
Talk:Mount Barney (Queensland)

Unusual Statement
"It is not recommended to ascend south-east ridge and descend Barney gorge within one day (take food, puri tabs, jumper, and a torch)." I doubt that most people reading this article would even attempt this route, it doesnt even mention that a car shuffle is required to do that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.94.54.14 (talk) 03:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Possibly Incorrect
"In the 1840s some of the mountain's ridge were logged, with some cut stumps still visible today." The source for this appears incorrect. It is doubtful that Mt Barney was logged in the 1840s. It is important to recognise that the Mt Barney region remained remote and relatively unknown to Europeans until at least the 1850s, and that Europeans did not move into the immediate vicinity of Mt Barney until the nearby squatting runs (Telemon and Maroon) were progressively broken up in the later decades of the 19th century, and early decades of the 20th century - ie. from about the 1870s through to about 1915. In the 1840s timber getting operations in south-east Queensland were confined to easy to get at locations, where timber was plentiful and logs could be moved to a mill with relative ease (ie. floated in rafts, etc)- these included the lower Albert and Logan Rivers, the Noosa River, the Brisbane River, etc. From what I can establish, timber getters only became interested in Mt Barney in the early to mid 20th century, when other nearby sources of timber (Palen Creek, etc) were starting to thin out, and when improvements in transport and technology made the cutting and removal of logs from Mt Barney cost effective, etc. So my guess is that the 'cut stumps' you see here and there at Mt Barney date from the early to mid 20th century, not the 1840s. Notably, this same source also states that cattle were grazed on the slopes of Mt Barney in the 1840s, which again is problematic. When the Moreton Bay pastoral district was opened in 1842 it was primarily stocked with sheep - and we can see this in the Crown Lands Commissioner's returns of runs from the 1840s. It was only later, when it became apparent that the region was not suitable for sheep, that cattle numbers increased. Telemon was possibly one of the first of the sheep runs in the Mt Barney region to go over to cattle, and this appears to have happened in ca. 1849. So whilst there might have been a few cattle grazing near Mt Barney in the 1840s, they would have been far outnumbered by sheep. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aardvarky (talk • contribs) 00:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The Higher of the Two Peaks?
Currently the intro text states that the west peak is higher.

Google Maps terrain view (and their data is from the space shuttle orbiter or local sources where available) says that the east peak is around 1330m AMSL and the west peak about 1296m AMSL. Now this wouldn't be the first time Google Maps has been wrong, but unless someone can cite a credible source or an actual GPS receiver measurement for both peaks that says that the west peak is higher, I'd say we have to believe what Google Maps says. The east peak is higher (by only 30m).

I'm planning a walk up to both peaks within a few weeks, so I can measure the altitude at both if nobody else can find a source of the altitudes within that timeframe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.76.136.194 (talk) 05:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

geology reference
I wont add or rewrite anything at the moment but for those interested this reference from the Geological Society of Australia is excellent http://www.qld.gsa.org.au/Barneyv5.pdf Yendor of yinn (talk) 06:15, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Barney (Queensland)


text:
Walter Light

Walter J. Light (1927–1979) was an American timpanist, percussionist, and drummaker. At the age of 16, he was appointed to a percussion position in the Denver Symphony Orchestra, joining his father, Walter E. Light, who was the timpanist. He began a 27-year stint as principal timpanist after his father's death in 1952.

Dissatisfied with the instruments available to him post–World War II, he took up drum building in order to recreate the Dresden-style timpani built in Germany before the war. Eventually, other timpanists asked Light to build drums for them. In 1950, he formed the American Drum Manufacturing Company, which still builds custom timpani to this day.

title: Walter Light