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Garden Museum

The Garden Museum (formerly known as the Museum of Garden History) in London is Britain's only museum of the art, history and design of gardens. The museum re-opened in 2017 after an 18-month redevelopment project.

The building is largely the Victorian reconstruction of the Church of St Mary-at-Lambeth which was deconsecrated in 1972 and was scheduled to be demolished. It is adjacent to Lambeth Palace on the south bank of the River Thames in London, on Lambeth Road. In 1976, John and Rosemary Nicholson traced the tomb of the two 17th-century royal gardeners and plant hunters John Tradescant the Elder and the Younger to the churchyard, and were inspired to create the Museum of Garden History. It was the first museum in the world dedicated to the history of gardening.

The Museum's main gallery is on the first floor, in the body of the church. The collection includes tools, art, and ephemera of gardening, including a gallery about garden design and the evolution of gardening, as well as a recreation of Tradescant's 17th-century Ark. The collections give an insight into the social history of gardening as well as the practical aspects of the subject. There are three temporary exhibition spaces which look at various aspects of plants and gardens and change every six months The redevelopment of the Museum, completed in 2017, included two new garden designs. The Sackler Garden, designed by Dan Pearson sits at the centre of the courtyard, replacing the knot garden, and the Museum's front garden is designed by Christopher Bradley-Hole.

In 2006, Christopher Woodward, formerly director of the Holburne Museum in Bath, Somerset, was appointed as the director of the Garden Museum.

Development of the museum
The museum is run as an independent registered charity and does not receive government funding, instead depending on Friends, Patrons and charitable trusts, in addition to income from admission and events. In 2002, its 25th anniversary year, the museum launched a campaign to raise at least £600,000 to pay for a general overhaul of its facilities.

Phase I (2008)
Following a design competition, in 2008, the museum's interior was transformed into a centre for exhibitions and events by the construction of contemporary gallery spaces; the work was designed by Dow Jones Architects. The renamed museum (now the Garden Museum) opened to the public on 18 November of that year.

Phase II (2015–2017)
From 2015 to 2017, the Museum undertook a second phase of work to complete the restoration of the ancient structure and its transformation into a museum. In 2014 the museum was awarded a grant of £3,510,600 from the Heritage Lottery Fund for the development. The redeveloped museum re-opened in 2017 with more galleries and spaces for education and events inserted into the historic interior in a second, award-winning design by Dow Jones Architects.

This phase doubled the space for display of the permanent collection, 95% of which was in store, and created extra space for schools and community outreach work, in addition to a bigger café and modern visitor services. At the core of the project was an aspiration to create the country's first archive of garden and landscape design which is open to the public on appointment. The museum now includes a recreation of "Tradescant's Ark" through the loan from the Ashmolean Museum of the objects which originally belonged in Tradescant's collection at Lambeth, later bequeathed to his neighbour, Elias Ashmole.

The redevelopment also included a viewing platform being lowered onto the medieval tower, allowing the public to access the tower and enjoy the view across the Thames to Westminster for the first time.

In 2020, Dan Pearson designed a new courtyard garden for Garden Museum; his inspiration for this garden came from a number of people who might be considered the modern-day equivalents of the Tradescants.

St Mary-at-Lambeth
The Garden Museum is housed in the medieval and Victorian church of St Mary-at-Lambeth. The first church on the site was built before the Norman Conquest, and was integral to the religious centre established by the Archbishops of Canterbury in the 12th century. The structure was deconsecrated in 1972, and rescued from demolition by the museum's founder, Rosemary Nicholson. The museum opened in 1977 as the world's first museum of garden history; the churchyard was re-designed as a garden.

The church is the oldest structure in the London Borough of Lambeth, except for the crypt of Lambeth Palace itself, and its burials and monuments are a record of 950 years of a community. But for the Palace, it has perhaps the richest historical story of any building in the borough.

In 1062, a wooden church was built on the site by Goda, sister of Edward the Confessor; the Domesday Book of 1086 records 29 tenancies in her manor. Later in the century, it was rebuilt as a stone church and appears to have been at its height of splendour and patronage in the twelfth century, when it functioned as the church to the Archbishops' London lodgings next door.

In 1377, the stone tower was built; it was repaired in 1834–1835, but is otherwise intact and visitors can climb the tower for views across London. The body of the church was continually rebuilt and enriched over the centuries but, decisively, in 1851–1852 the aisles and nave were rebuilt by Philip Charles Hardwick, an architect prominent in the construction of banks and railway stations but not considered to be in the "first rank" of his generation; his father, Sir Philip Hardwick, designed the Euston Arch. It is described by Museum of London Archaeology Service "as an almost complete rebuilding of the old body of the church". The most eye-catching survivals are four of eight corbels in the ceiling of the nave. These are a mix of medieval and Victorian construction.

One of the few 20th-century interventions in the church's fabric took place in around 1900, with the insertion of an immersion font and a baptistery at the base of the tower, said to be one of only two examples in Anglican churches in England. During the Second World War, the stained glass was badly damaged by bombs and, in the 1950s, the stained glass was replaced by either plain glass or panels by Francis Stephens (1921–2002), including a replica of the "Pedlar's Window". The bombs also broke up the altar donated in 1888 by Sir Henry Doulton as a memorial to his wife; Doulton's ceramic factory stood about 300 yards to the south.

In 1972, the church was made redundant due to its dilapidation and gloom, and also because of changes in the population settlement of the parish: the area by the riverside had become derelict and under-populated, and the vicar wanted a church closer to where the congregation lived. In 1969, Lambeth Council designated the area around Lambeth Palace as one of the borough's first conservation areas.

Soon after the Church Commissioners obtained the necessary consents for demolition, the altar, bells and pews were removed. In 1976, Rosemary Nicholson visited the site to see the tomb of John Tradescant and was shocked to discover the church boarded up in readiness for its demolition. She established the Tradescant Trust, which was awarded a 99-year lease from the Diocese of Southwark, who continue to own the land. The trust's rescue and repair of the structure became one of the great architectural conservation causes of its time, and the church became a museum.

St Mary's churchyard and burials
The church was a place of burial until the churchyard was closed in 1854, and the ground level of the site has risen in consequence. It is estimated that there are over 26,000 burials. The prestige of the site is reflected in the wills of many citizens who ordered tombs for themselves, particularly in the chancel. The most significant of these is the chantry tomb on its north wall of Hugh Peyntwyn (died 1504), which is the earliest known example of a new design of wall monument associated with the royal workshops. Opposite is a monument of the same type to John Mompesson (died 1524). The Garden Museum is unique in having two monuments of this type.

The church originally housed the 15th- and 16th-century tombs of many members of the Howard family, including now-lost memorial brasses to Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk (died 1524) and his wife Agnes Howard, Duchess of Norfolk (died 1545), and is also the burial place of Anne Boleyn's mother, Elizabeth Boleyn (died 1538), formerly Howard. Elias Ashmole (instrumental in the development of speculative freemasonry and founder of the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford) was buried in the church in 1692. Later burials inside the church includes the soprano Nancy Storace.

Burials outside in the churchyard include John Sealy of the Coade Stone Manufactory and Vice-Admiral Bligh of HMS Bounty fame. The churchyard is exceptional for having Grade II* listed tombs (those of Tradescant, Sealy and Bligh). Lambeth expanded quickly in the 19th century and 15,900 burials are recorded in the two decades after 1790. The churchyard was enlarged in 1814 but was closed in 1854, at a time when other city churchyards were closed by Act of Parliament.

Tomb of the Tradescants

Five members of the Tradescant family are buried here: John Tradescant the Elder; John Tradescant the Younger with his two wives Jane and Hester, and his son, also called John, who died aged 19. The original 17th-century design for the tomb is in the Pepys Library, Cambridge, and an image of it may also be found at the National Portrait Gallery.

The present tomb is the third on the site of the Tradescant grave and replicates the original design. It was restored by public subscription in 1853.

On the east side of the tomb is carved the family arms, on the west side a skull and a seven-headed hydra, on the south side broken columns, Corinthian capitals, a pyramid and ruins, and on the north side shells, a crocodile, and a view of some Egyptian buildings.

The epitaph on the top of the tomb was written by Tradescant's friend, John Aubrey (spelling modernised):

":Know, stranger, ere thou pass, beneath this stone
 * Lie John Tradescant, grandsire, father, son
 * The last dy'd in his spring, the other two,
 * Liv'd till they had travelled Art and Nature through,
 * As by their choice Collections may appear,
 * Of what is rare in land, in sea, in air,
 * Whilst they (as Homer's Iliad in a nut)
 * A world of wonders in one closet shut,
 * These famous Antiquarians that had been
 * Both Gardeners to the Rose and Lily Queen,
 * Transplanted now themselves, sleep here & when
 * Angels shall with their trumpets waken men,
 * And fire shall purge the world, these three shall rise
 * And change this Garden then for Paradise."

Local Lambeth legend states that if the tomb is danced around twelve times, while Big Ben strikes midnight, a ghost appears.

Coffins found during redevelopment
During renovation works in 2016, workers uncovered a vault containing 30 coffins, including those of five Archbishops of Canterbury. These included: Richard Bancroft (who oversaw the production of the King James Bible), John Moore, Frederick Cornwallis, Matthew Hutton and Thomas Tenison. Further identified burials were Catherine Moore, wife of John Moore, and John Bettesworth, a Dean of Arches.

title: Garden Museum


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Talk:Breaching experiment

Edit/Expansion: merging sociology and social psych approaches to breaching experiments
I just wanted to provide an overview of my plans for expanding this page based on the outlines currently provided. I started by expanding the opening intro explaining what a "breaching experiment" actually is, as students in both introductory sociology and social psych are often assigned this as a field assignment, but have no idea what it actually means.

Along those lines, I am adding sections trading the idea as it has developed across disciplines. I was able to trace the theoretical notions of creation of social meaning and norms, as well as the importance of complying with norms in social settings to Erving Goffman. I believe Garfinkel was thinking along these same lines at the same time (1960s) so I follow with discussion of breaching experiment as a research tool in ethnomethodolgy and some examples of how Garfinkel had his grad students do this informally. This is also covered under the Harold Garfinkel Wiki page, so I'm trying not to overlap too much.

Finally, social psychologist Stanley Milgram, famous for the Milgram Obedience experiments, carried out two "social norm breaching" studies, which I describe in the final section in order to give readers an idea of how social psychology has also approached this issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ioanaschmidt (talk • contribs) 01:13, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Garfinkel
I'm not allowed to edit articles but some mention of Harold Garfinkel and his theory of Ethnomethodology. A large part of his work was dedicated to breaching experiments which he used to highlight the hidden method we use to create sense and order in our lifes. The example 'The literalist' in the article was used often by him too. Other examples that come to mind include getting students to act as a lodger in their parents house, and breaching games of tic-tac-toe.
 * added a mention and link both to Garfinkel and to ethnomethodology

Earl R. Babbie cite
Could we please get a cite for the Babbie point? Tarheelcoxn 00:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

"Boiling Points"
Should the Boiling Points reference be deleted? There seem to be many examples that could be offered to illustrate the experiment as well; this one seems as though it could be more a promotion than is necessary.--Plaidfury 23:30, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Boiling Points is interesting, but only tangentially related. Maybe we need to add 'A stream of consciousness' to what Wikipedia is not ... and it does look promotional, as you mention. eritain 22:53, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree that Boiling Points should probably be removed. It is sensationalistic -- it's not really what breaching experiments are about.  Katxena.

Literalist and elevator
I removed two "examples" of breaching experiments because I am somewhat doubtful that they have actually been conducted. (Well, the elevator one possibly, but the "literalist" one seems very dubious.) I think we need to have some sources here referring to particular, actual experiments conducted by psychologists, and not just "hey, that would be a cool experiment" ideas. Has anyone actually done the "literalist" experiment? How would you possibly set that up (since we don't say "hi how are you" to strangers, it seems like it would be very hard to control.) Sdedeo 15:35, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

(Re: Garfinkel -- I haven't been able to find any evidence that Garfinkel conducted a "literalist" breaching experiment, or indeed ever talked about it in a significant manner. Indeed, the only hits for a goole of Garfinkel's name and the term "literalist" point back to the earlier versions of this page -- sigh.) Sdedeo 15:39, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Example 1 in Action
"The inexplicable do-gooder": Social science researcher Earl R. Babbie writes that "it is a social rule that ordinary citizens should not pick up garbage from the street, or mend street signs, or otherwise fix problems." So, umm, does anyone know when it will be revealed that Wikipedia is one giant Breaching experiment? -HiFiGuy 23:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * An excellent question! Sdedeo (tips) 04:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I see what you are saying and as you can see by the success of Wikipedia that it works very well. Now to figure out how to change the norms of the real world to be more like Wikipedia... Guy who couldn't get a username (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:02, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Ethics?
It seems to me that a breaching experiment, since it relies on the reactions of unsuspecting members of the public, by definition cannot obtain consent from experimental subjects prior to experimentation. Is there any literature discussing the ethics of this type of study? 72.87.60.21 (talk) 22:45, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Breaching experiment


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Felipe Pérez Roque

Felipe Ramón Pérez Roque (born 28 March 1965) was the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Cuba from 1999 to 2009. At his appointment, he was not only the youngest member of the Cuban cabinet but also the only one to be born after the Cuban Revolution in 1959.

Biography
Pérez Roque was formerly an electronics engineer and leader of student organizations who had served as Fidel Castro's chief of staff for a decade prior to his ministry. As well as being a prominent member of the Cuban Council of Ministers, Pérez Roque was also a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Cuba and served on the Council of State. He was replaced as Foreign Minister by former United Nations Ambassador Bruno Rodríguez Parrilla in March 2009 after allegations of expressing scornful words against Fidel Castro's rule and the positions of other senior communist party leaders obtained from covert recording bugs. He was deposed from all his party and state positions.

Role as Foreign Minister
Pérez Roque's role as foreign minister was defined by statements opposing the foreign policies of the United States, in regard to both the status of Cuba and in regard to wider US foreign policy. He called Cuba a "country under siege" as a result of the US embargo against Cuba Pérez Roque made a series of speeches at the annual United Nations General Assembly gatherings, criticizing the role of the United States and requesting that US troops be withdrawn from Iraq. At the gatherings, he also petitioned for the security council to include Third World countries, that all nations cooperate in the fight against terrorism, and that it is the responsibility of developed countries to ensure general and complete disarmament including nuclear disarmament.

Pérez Roque was also responsible for the deepening of trade relations between Cuba and the People's Republic of China, and made a number of high-profile trips to the country, signing a key military agreement between the two nations.

Pérez Roque was dismissed as Foreign Minister on 2 March 2009. Fidel Castro then criticized him and Carlos Lage Dávila (without naming them) for love of power in a statement on 3 March, and Pérez Roque announced his resignation from all his party and state positions—membership on the Communist Party's Central Committee and Political Bureau, membership on the Council of State, and his role as a parliamentary deputy—in a letter published on 5 March. In that letter, he also accepted Castro's criticism and agreed that he had made mistakes.

Personal life
He is married to Tania Crombet, Jaime Crombet's daughter (Crombet was the Vice President of the National Assembly of People’s Power until 2013 ) with two children.

title: Felipe Pérez Roque


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Glasgow Kelvinhall

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. -- AllyUnion (talk) 12:53, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Glasgow Kelvinhall
PatGallacher tagged this article vfd, but got confused by the convoluted VfD process (quite understandably IMO). No vote from me. —Korath (Talk) 15:40, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

From the talk page:
 * Delete
 * There is no way this stub can be turned into an encyclopedic entry. The underground station in question is just a single island platform up an alley.  It wrongly states that it is the best station for Glasgow University, this is actually Hillhead.  Its only claim to notability is that it is the station for the Kelvin Hall, but that doesn't even make it the most notable station on the Glasgow Underground, this point could be put in the main article.  If this is notablity we will end up with entries for most of the underground stations in central London and other cities.
 * PatGallacher 21:00, 2005 Jan 30 (UTC)(talk)
 * comment we already do have articles on many (most?) London underground stations (e.g. Pimlico tube station, Oxford Circus tube station). Thryduulf 16:08, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep, based on the inclusion of the London Underground articles (which I agree with) the stations of the Glasgow equivalent are no less encyclopedic. Thryduulf 16:08, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep The argument about railway station articles should be considered closed. Philip 18:32, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, it's helpful (and entirely aside from that, more encyclopedic than most of the gamercruft that gets kept around here). Wyss 21:17, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. All railway stations are notable. --Centauri 23:14, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Can this really be expanded? --Neigel von Teighen 23:17, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * keep regardless. Yuckfoo 01:25, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep for reasons given by Thryduulf. --Idont Havaname 04:46, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and be careful with those scissors. GRider\talk 17:11, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non notable. Gamaliel 22:01, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Improve it if you feel it's inaccurate max rspct 23:04, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Hyperion Records

Hyperion Records is a British classical music record label. It was independent until February 2023, when it was acquired by the Universal Music Group. Under Universal, Hyperion is one of the three main classical record labels, alongside Decca and Deutsche Grammophon.

History
Hyperion is a British classical label established in 1980, showcasing recordings of music of all genres from the 12th century to the 21st. The company is eponymous with Hyperion, one of the Titans of Greek mythology. George Edward Perry (known as "Ted") founded the company. Early LP releases include rarely recorded 20th-century British music by composers such as Robin Milford, Alan Bush and Michael Berkeley. The venture's success was sealed with a critically acclaimed and popular disc of music by Hildegard of Bingen, A Feather on the Breath of God (1985), directed by the medievalist Christopher Page and his group Gothic Voices.

After the death on 9 February 2003 of Hyperion Records founder Ted Perry, his son Simon Perry took over as director.

Acquisition by Universal Music Group
Entries at Companies House show that, on 14 February 2023, ownership of Hyperion moved to Universal Music Operations Limited, a primary British subsidiary of Universal Music Group (UMG), who later officially announced the acquisition on 15 March 2023, making Hyperion a sister label of Deutsche Grammophon and Decca.

Recognition
Hyperion became renowned for recording lesser-known works, particularly Romantic piano concertos that had fallen from the repertory, works by Scottish Romantic composers, and English music of the Renaissance to the Baroque. They are especially known for their series of recordings of Franz Liszt's complete music for solo piano recorded by Leslie Howard, their complete edition of Franz Schubert's lieder prepared under the supervision of the accompanist Graham Johnson OBE, and many of Handel's oratorios and Henry Purcell's choral works under the direction of Robert King.

More recently, Stephen Hough CBE, recorded Rachmaninov's complete piano concertos and the Paganini Rhapsody using the composer's original score. Hyperion is also noted for the breadth of its recorded repertoire, including music from the 12th to the 21st centuries. The label is renowned for complete recordings of lieder by Carl Loewe, Robert Schumann, Felix Mendelssohn, Richard Strauss, and Franz Liszt. More recently, Hyperion launched the Romantic violin concerto and Romantic cello concerto series.

Canadian pianist Angela Hewitt OBE recorded a complete cycle of Bach's keyboard works for the label (including the Well-Tempered Clavier twice over), while Christopher Herrick recorded his complete organ works.

Hyperion's recordings have won many awards, among them several Gramophone Awards, including Record of the Year in 1996, 1998, 2002, and 2010. Ted Perry was voted into the Gramophone Hall of Fame in April 2012.

Sawkins lawsuit
In 2004, Hyperion became embroiled in a legal dispute with Lionel Sawkins, a music editor whose editions of works by Michel-Richard de Lalande had been used in Hyperion's recording of the composer's music. Sawkins sued the company for royalties accruing from his musical copyright in these editions.

Hyperion maintained that the editions were not original compositions and therefore were not subject to copyright, and further that Sawkins did receive payment in the form of a hire fee from the performers for their rental. The case came to court in May 2004, and the judgment went largely in Sawkins's favor. Hyperion appealed in March 2005, and the court upheld the original judgment.

While the damages Sawkins sought were thought to be small, the legal costs of the case were estimated to result in a liability to the company of hundreds of thousands of pounds sterling, making its future uncertain at the time. By 2006, Hyperion had received financial support from musicians, consumers, and composers to enable its survival. As a precedent-setting case, the judgment was criticized by many musicologists.

Peter Phillips, the director of the Tallis Scholars and a music editor, said: "All the music I perform has to be edited, or we couldn't read it. But copyright should be there to reward creativity, not scholarship or diligence. How much an editor did or did not write should never be asked and judged during a million-pound lawsuit involving a small and innovative recording company."

title: Hyperion Records


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User:CPES

Hello. I'm chuck

Location: North Somerset, UK

Profession: electronics design engineer

Joined Wikipedia: 05 February 2005

Interests: walking, golf, reading, writing, languages, history, maths, chemistry, physics, geography, human biology, book binding, investment, economics, business, computing, software, music, HiFi, guitars, electronics, photography, cars, motorbikes, aviation, metalworking, woodworking, gardening, architecture, house refurbishment.

Other IDs: same username on Wikipedia Commons http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CPES)

POV: is anything true?

Wikipedia: I remember Roy Donahuge, a kindly unassuming author in the Technical Publications Department at EMI electronics where I worked. He demonstrated how to turn the convoluted proposal that I had sweated weeks over into a shorter, more logical and readable document by applying a few simple rules. Up to that time, like many technical people, writing was a chore, although punctuation and spelling still were until I came across, Task's, Penguin Guide to Punctuation and then they invented PCs with word processors and spell checkers.

I find that copy-editing Wikipedia articles is a good way to learn about subjects but I do feel guilty about changing other people's work, especially those who may be non-native English speakers, young, or just not experienced in writing. The Wikipedians who do the research, start articles, and provide the illustrations and those who subsequently add to the articles are the front-line soldiers. The organisation, presentation, punctuation and grammar, while essential, requires different skills.

Thanks to the Wikipedians who correct my errors and explain why, and to the Wikipedians who discus topics in an objective, constructive, and polite way. And no thanks to the rest!

Contact: You can leave messages for me on talk for this page.

Sub pages

 * User:CPES/definitions
 * User:CPES/Quotations
 * User:CPES/Books
 * User:CPES/Wikipedia how to
 * User:CPES/Links
 * User:CPES/Wikipedia comments
 * User:CPES/Images

 * User:CPES/images worked on
 * User:CPES/sandbox
 * User:CPES/sandbox 01
 * User:CPES/sandbox 02
 * User:CPES/sandbox 03
 * User:CPES/sandbox 04
 * User:CPES/sandbox 05
 * User:CPES/sandbox 06
 * User:CPES/WIP
 * User:CPES/WIP 02
 * User:CPES/Wikipedia articles worked on

title: User:CPES


text:
Gann

Gann may refer to

People

 * Gann, in Irish mythology, king of the Fomorians
 * Gann mac Dela (20th or 16th century BC), joint High King of Ireland
 * Ernest K. Gann (1910-1991), author, sailor, fisherman and airline captain
 * Kyle Gann (born 1955), composer and music critic
 * Thomas Gann (1867–1938), medical doctor and amateur archaeologist
 * William Delbert Gann (1878-1955), stock market analyst (see Gann angles)
 * Lewis H. Gann, historian
 * Dewell Gann Sr., namesake of the Gann Row Historic District in Benton, Arkansas

Places

 * Gann, Ohio, USA; former name of small village in Knox County
 * Gann Valley, South Dakota, USA; a CDP

Other uses

 * Gann Academy (founded 1997), Jewish school

title: Gann


text:
Fellowship of Isis

The Fellowship of Isis (FOI) is a multi-faith, multi-racial, and multi-cultural spiritual organization focused on increasing awareness for the Goddess Isis. The Fellowship of Isis believes Isis best represents the energies of the dawning Aquarian Age. Despite worshipping pagan deities, the fellowship does not consider itself to be a Neopagan faith.

History
The FOI was founded at Huntington Castle, County Carlow, Ireland at the Vernal equinox of 1976. The three co-founders were Olivia Robertson, her brother, Lawrence Durdin-Robertson (both are grandchildren of Thomas Herbert Robertson) and Lawrence's wife Pamela. They aimed to create a fellowship to "help the Goddess actively in the manifestation of Her divine plan." Olivia has described Isis as "God in female form." The FOI grew out of a "working group" created in 1963 called the Huntington Castle Centre for Meditation and Study. This Centre was active in gathering together various occult and theological figures such as Ross Nichols, Josephine and Mohun Lall, and Gerald Gough. The experiences shared within this group, along with the personal spiritual revelations and experiences of the three FOI co-founders led to the eventual founding of the Fellowship of Isis on the Vernal Equinox in 1976. From 1976 until the early 1990s, the group steadily grew.

In August 1993, the Fellowship of Isis was represented at the Parliament of the World's Religions at Chicago by Olivia Robertson and other member delegates. It is the first time that the Religion of the Goddess has been acknowledged as a world faith at this Parliament. The Parliament "became a showcase for the new religions in America, especially since mainstream Christianity was much underrepresented . . . Two feminist neopagan groups, the Covenant of the Goddess and the Fellowship of Isis, were among the sponsors of the parliament."

Custodianship of the Fellowship of Isis Foundation Centre is now under the aegis of the Durdin-Robertsons, heirs of the co-founders. In 2011, Olivia Robertson named her niece, Cressida Pryor, successor and FOI steward.

In October 2014, Cressida announced the Irish-based Circle of Brigid the "central parliament" and "executive board" of the Fellowship of Isis Foundation Centre, of which she is the overall adviser. The Circle of Brigid is also responsible for festivals at the Castle Centre in Ireland and has a subcommittee to sort ethics grievances.

The Fellowship is a globally organised religion, whose international and Internet presence is very large by comparison with its Irish base.

Practices
"Over the past 30 years a body of liturgy has developed, detailing how the [Manifesto] principles can be practised by interested members through establishing a relationship between self and deity. Members are encouraged to express this spiritual relationship by enacting rituals, prayers and meditations, as detailed in the liturgy.  This liturgy is drawn from the ritual structures of contemporary paganisms, Goddess spirituality and diverse archaeological scholarship into religious experience in the ancient world." The Liturgy of the Fellowship of Isis was written by Olivia Robertson, each ritual honouring different pantheons, and including a divinely channelled oracle encouraging spiritual communion with that Deity. These rites may be used for personal spiritual enhancement or, via instruction from a Fellowship of Isis centre, various degrees may be attained.

Focus
The stated goal of the Fellowship of Isis is to support and promote the idea of the Divine Feminine. The Fellowship of Isis Manifesto sets out the basic principles of this society. The Fellowship accepts religious toleration and is not exclusivist. Members are free to maintain other religious allegiances. The good in all faiths is honoured. The Fellowship of Isis has no particular affiliations. It practices total religious tolerance, forbids sacrifice of any kind and discourages asceticism.

It is sometimes considered pagan, but co-founder Olivia Robertson stated in 2002: "We are happy to have thousands of Pagans among our 21,000 members in so many countries. But we also have Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Spiritualists and Hindus as members. All love and follow the religion of Isis of 10,000 Names."

All members in the Fellowship of Isis have equal privileges within it, and membership is free. Membership is open to anyone who wishes to join – once an individual has read through the Fellowship of Isis Manifesto and finds themselves in agreement with the principles laid out within it they become a member. There are no vows of secrecy. Members are free to resign at any time, if they so choose, and can rejoin again at a later time.

The Fellowship is dedicated to spreading the religion of all the Goddesses throughout this planet. The Gods are also venerated. The Goddess is seen as Deity, the Divine Mother of all beings, as well as the embodiment of Truth and Beauty. "The ecumenical nature of this nonprofit organization reveals itself in a membership that includes Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, Cabalists, Spiritualists, and Wiccan and pagan worshippers of all kinds."

FOI sub-groups, called "FOI Foundation Center Societies" or "Daughter Societies" of the Fellowship of Isis consist of the ‘College of Isis’ (Lyceums), the ‘Spiral of the Adepti’ (Iseums), the ‘Spiral of Alchemy’ (Solar Iseums), the 'Druid Clan of Dana' (Groves) and the 'Noble Order of Tara' (Priories). There are sub-chapters of these societies of the FOI in many major cities and countries around the world.

The Fellowship of Isis claims over 24,000 members in nearly a hundred countries. Members often blend their own traditions and beliefs with those offered by the Fellowship.

title: Fellowship of Isis


text:
Genann

Genann Mac Dala (modern spelling: Geanann), son of Dela (Dela was a descendant of Starn, son of Nemed), of the Fir Bolg was a legendary joint High King of Ireland with his brother Gann, succeeding their brother Rudraige. His wife was Cnucha.

When the Fir Bolg invaded Ireland the five sons of Dela divided the island among themselves. Genann landed with Rudraige at Tracht Rudraige (Dundrum Bay, County Down) and took the province of Connacht.

When their brother Rudraige died, Gann and Genann became joint High King for four years, until they both died of plague, along with two thousand of their followers, and were succeeded by Sengann.

title: Genann


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Chiseldon

Chiseldon is a village and civil parish in the Borough of Swindon, Wiltshire, England. The village lies on the edge of the Marlborough Downs, a mile south of junction 15 of the M4 motorway, on the A346 between Swindon and Marlborough. The large village of Wroughton is 2.5 mi to the west. The parish includes the hamlets of Badbury, Badbury Wick, Draycot Foliat, Hodson, and Ridgeway View; the ancient manor of Burderop is also within the parish.

History
Settlements in the area date back to prehistoric and Roman times, but Chiseldon itself was started by the Saxons. The Domesday Book of 1086 recorded a large settlement of 70 households at Chiseldene. It takes its name from the Old English cisel dene, or gravel valley. At one point the nearby hamlet of Draycot Foliat was larger than Chiseldon. Chiseldon lies on one of the country's oldest highways, the Icknield Way, although this section of the road is more commonly known as The Ridgeway.

The spelling "Chisledon" has also been used, and continues in the name of the ecclesiastical parish.

In 2004, a group of Iron Age cauldrons was discovered at a site close to the centre of the village. This unique find, the largest group of Iron Age cauldrons to be discovered in Europe, was excavated in June 2005 and again in 2010. Now thought to comprise 17 cauldrons, they were taken to the British Museum for conservation and research.

The Midland and South Western Junction Railway was constructed in 1881 and ran through the centre of the village until 1961, with a station that linked the village to Swindon Town station to the north and Marlborough to the south.

Chiseldon Army Camp was opened in 1914 and closed in 1962. During both World Wars it was heavily used as a training base for troops. A World War I soldier, Arthur Bullock, recorded overcrowding and appalling conditions, including, in the canteen, having to re-use tables and plates from a previous sitting, on which lay 'bones and chewed bits of gristle'. He also recalls being kept awake by a St Bernard dog, 'the mascot of the camp'. In World War II the camp was a major base for US Army troops. Houses which were formerly married quarters are now known as Ridgeway View.

An area in and around the village was designated as a Conservation Area in 1990.

The Chiseldon Local History Group maintains a website with information about the history of the village. They also organise a programme of lectures and have a museum in the village.

Religious sites
One record states that the church at Chiseldon was granted in 903 to Winchester Abbey. This association continued until the Dissolution, in or shortly before 1540.

Holy Cross, the Church of England parish church, is a Grade I listed building which is called "fairly large" by Historic England. The earliest masonry is the five-bay arcades of c.1200, and the south and east windows of the chancel are also from the early 13th century. The head of a small Anglo-Saxon window is built into a pier near the south-west corner of the nave. The windows on the west side are from the 13th or 14th centuries, as is the altered south doorway.

The three-stage 15th-century tower is in unusual position backing onto the south aisle, its base providing a porch. One of the six bells is from c.1399 and four are from the 17th century. Restoration by C.E. Ponting in 1892 saw renewal of the stalls using 16th-century carved panels; the exterior was little changed beyond the replacement of the chancel roof at a steeper angle. The church has much stained glass from the late 19th century, and a 1939 window in the north aisle by Christopher Webb.

There are several wall monuments, 18th and 19th century, to members of the Calley family of Burderop. Stone memorials inside the church include a depiction of Edward Hellish (died 1707) and his large family. Historic England describe the churchyard as well stocked with chest tombs and headstones, mostly from the 18th century.

In 1923, the parishes and benefices of Chiseldon and Draycot Foliat were united. Today the parish of Chisledon with Draycott Folliatt [sic] is at the centre of the Ridgeway benefice, which also covers Ogbourne St Andrew and Ogbourne St George.

Primitive Methodists built a chapel and school in the village in 1896, replacing an earlier building. The chapel was sold for residential use sometime after 1967 and Methodists share the facilities of the parish church.

The parish
The Parish of Chiseldon encompasses not only the village but also the neighbouring hamlets of Draycot Foliat and Hodson. Draycot Foliat had its own church and parish in the medieval period, but in 1571 the Bishop of Salisbury ordered the church in Draycot to be demolished, as neither parish could sustain their own rectors any longer. As Chiseldon was the larger, Draycot was incorporated into that parish, and the materials from the church in Draycot were used to repair the church in Chiseldon.

In 2017 a community governance review redrew the northern boundary of the parish to follow the M4, transferring the area to the north to the newly created Central Swindon South parish. This area included the former hamlet of Coate and the modern housing development of Badbury Park, on the southeastern edge of Swindon.

Local government
As well as having its own elected parish council, Chiseldon also falls within the area of the Borough of Swindon unitary authority, which is responsible for all significant local government functions.

Amenities
The village has a school, Chiseldon Primary School, which had 193 pupils in 2021. The village has a surgery, and two hotels, one of them Chiseldon House Hotel.

There are two pubs in the parish: the Patriot's Arms in the village, and the Plough Inn on the main road north of the village. There is also a social club.

Local shops declined in the 20th century, as in many villages, due to people shopping in larger towns (Swindon) rather than in the village. Current local shops include a small newsagent, a hairdresser, a small supermarket and a petrol station. The small supermarket was an army barracks before it was converted into a shop.

title: Chiseldon


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Talk:Baldrs draumar

Hel?
I'm just trying to dab Hel, but where it says Hel in this article, it is refering to a place and not a goddess. Hel is the goddess of the underworlds, Helheim and Niflheim, in Norse mythology, so could the person who wrote the intro be refering to the underworlds ruled by Hel? BlankVerse 15:17, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Baldrs draumar is the proper form
This poem is usually called "Baldrs draumar", also in English discussion. I find 845 Google hits for that version and only 12 for "Dreams of Balder". I will ask Wiglaf to move the page back. - Haukurth 08:53, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * See the extended discussion at Balder. List this at requested moves if you like, but I strongly feel this should be at an English name. CDThieme 20:23, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I participated in the discussion at Baldr and am familiar with all the arguments presented there. "Baldrs draumar" is by far the most common way to refer to this poem in English. Check almost any source. Even Google. - Haukurth 21:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Most sources give the original and then the English. See this example: . The policy on the English wikipedia is to use the most common English name in the title. We do this as a courtesy to our readers, most of whom are much more familiar with English than Old Norse or Icelandic. CDThieme 22:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Reverting to original name. Dear CDThieme if your really feel strongly about this move, file a requested moves. The outcome will not be questioned.--Wiglaf 21:33, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * When I moved the page to an English title I followed the instructions and fixed the redirects so they worked. When you reverted me, you didn't fix the redirects, and now none of them work. CDThieme 22:06, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 08:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Translation of the poem
Hi thanks for your edits on this. I see you removed the translation of the poem on the grounds that it's original research. But No_original_research says 'faithfully translating sourced material into English, or transcribing spoken words from audio or video sources, is not considered original research'. The meaning of the text is pretty uncontroversial too, unlike some of the more problematic Eddaic poems, so I don't think there's a problem with the translation's fidelity. So I don't think the translation needs to be removed on OR grounds.

That said, I did fail for some reason to get the formatting to work when I added it, so the line-breaks of the Old Norse text didn't show. You might also think that including the full translation was cumbersome for other reasons too -- I basically just added it because I'd done it for a class I was teaching and thought I might as well make it available. So I'd suggest we reinstate it, but won't be offended if you think it should go. Alarichall (talk) 22:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 * Hello, Alaric! I wasn't sure where this translation came from, exactly, so I just removed it. If I had known it was you, I would have reached out to you about it—sorry about that. Do you think you could put your translation on, say, a website or something and then release it into the public domain? Then we could add an attribution, which would help keep others from coming by (such as myself) and saying 'hey, an unattributed translation!' and deleting it. I can help with the formatting. :bloodofox: (talk) 23:03, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 * Whew, I FINALLY got round to sorting this. In the event, I moved the translation over to Wikisource. Seemed like a decent solution.

Alarichall (talk) 21:23, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baldrs draumar


text:
Sioux Wars

The Sioux Wars were a series of conflicts between the United States and various subgroups of the Sioux people which occurred in the later half of the 19th century. The earliest conflict came in 1854 when a fight broke out at Fort Laramie in Wyoming, when Sioux warriors killed 31 American soldiers in the Grattan Massacre, and the final came in 1890 during the Ghost Dance War.

First Sioux War
The First Sioux War was fought between 1854 and 1856 following the Grattan Fight. The punitive Battle of Ash Hollow was fought in September 1855.

Dakota War of 1862
The Santee Sioux or Dakotas of Western Minnesota rebelled on August 17, 1862, after the Federal Government failed to deliver the annuity payments that had been promised to them in the Treaty of Traverse des Sioux of 1851. The tribe pillaged the nearby village of New Ulm and attacked Fort Ridgely. They killed over 800 German farmers, including men, women and children. After the Battle of Birch Coulee on September 2, the Indians were eventually defeated on September 23 in the Battle of Wood Lake.

Most of the warriors who took part in the fighting escaped to the west and north into Dakota Territory to continue the conflict, while the remaining Santees surrendered on September 26 at Camp Release to the US Army. In the following murder trials, 303 Indians were sentenced to death. After closer investigation from Washington, 38 were hanged on December 26 in the town of Mankato in America's largest mass-execution.

In the aftermath, battles continued between Minnesota regiments and combined Lakota and Dakota forces through 1864 as Col. Henry Sibley's troops pursued the Sioux. Sibley's army defeated the Lakota and Dakota in four major battles in 1863: the Battle of Big Mound on July 24, 1863, the Battle of Dead Buffalo Lake on July 26, 1863; the Battle of Stony Lake on July 28, 1863; and the Battle of Whitestone Hill on September 3, 1863. The Sioux retreated further but faced the United States army again in 1864. General Alfred Sully led a force from near Fort Pierre, South Dakota, and decisively defeated the Sioux at the Battle of Killdeer Mountain on July 28, 1864, and at the Battle of the Badlands on August 9, 1864.

The survivors were forced to move to a small reservation on the Missouri River in central South Dakota. There, on the Crow Creek Reservation their descendants still live today.

Colorado War
The Colorado War began in 1863 and was primarily fought by American militia while the United States Army played a minor role. Several Native American tribes attacked American settlements in the Eastern Plains, including the Lakota Sioux who raided in northeast Colorado. On November 29, 1864 Colorado Volunteers under the command of Colonel John Chivington attacked a peaceful Cheyenne and Arapaho village camped on Sand Creek in southeastern Colorado. Under orders to take no prisoners the militia killed an estimated 150 men, women, and children, mutilating the dead and taking scalps and other grisly trophies of battle. The Indians at Sand Creek had been assured by the U.S. Government that they would be safe in the territory they were occupying, but anti-Indian sentiments by white settlers were running high. Later congressional investigations resulted in short-lived U.S. public outcry against the slaughter of the Native Americans.

Following the Sand Creek massacre the survivors joined the camps of the Northern Cheyenne on the Smokey Hill and Republican rivers. There the war pipe was smoked and passed from camp to camp among the Sioux, Cheyenne and Arapaho camped in the area and an attack on the stage station and fort, Camp Rankin at that time, at Julesburg on the South Platte River was planned and carried out in January, 1865. This successful attack, the Battle of Julesburg, led by the Sioux, who were most familiar with the territory, was carried out by about a thousand warriors and was followed up by numerous raids along the South Platte both east and west of Julesburg and a second raid on Julesburg in early February. Following the first raid on January 7, 500 troops under the command of General Robert B. Mitchell consisting of the Seventh Iowa Cavalry, the First Nebraska Veteran Volunteer Cavalry, and Companies "B" and "C," First Nebraska Militia (mounted) had been removed from the Platte and were engaged in a fruitless search for hostile Indians on the plains south of the Platte. They found the camp on the Republican River occupied by the tribes only after they had left. A great deal of loot was captured and many whites killed. The bulk of the natives then moved north into Nebraska on their way to the Black Hills and the Powder River but paused to burn the telegraph station on Lodgepole Creek then attacked the station at Mud Springs on the Jules cutoff. There were 9 soldiers stationed there, the telegraph operator and a few other civilians. The Indians began the attack by running the stock off from the station's corral along with a herd of cattle. Alerted by telegraph, the Army dispatched men from Fort Mitchell and Fort Laramie on February 4, about 150 men in all. Arriving on February 5 the first party of reinforcements of 36 men found themselves facing superior forces, estimated to number 500 warriors and with two men wounded were forced to retreat into the station. The second party of 120 troops under the command of Colonel William Collins, commandant of Fort Laramie, arrived on the 6th and found themselves facing 500 to 1,000 warriors. Armed with Spencer repeating rifles the soldiers were able to hold their own and a standoff resulted. After about 4 hours of fighting the war party left and moved their village to the head of Brown's Creek on the north side of the North Platte. Collins' forces were soon reinforced by 50 more men from Fort Laramie who had towed a mountain howitzer with them. With a force of about 185 men Collins followed the trail of the Indians to their abandoned camp at Rock Creek Spring, then followed their plain trail to the south bank of the North Platte at Rush Creek where they encountered a force of approximately 2,000 warriors on the north side of the river. An inconclusive fight followed and the decision was made to abandon pursuit of the war party. In his report Colonel Collins correctly predicted that the party was en route to the Power River Country and would continue to raid along the North Platte. His estimate of Indian casualties during the two engagements was 100 to 150, many more than reported by George Bent a participant in the war party.

In the spring of 1865, raids continued along the Oregon trail in Nebraska. January 27, 1865 while a brisk northwest wind was blowing the army fired the prairie from Fort McPherson to Denver. The Sioux, the Northern Cheyenne, the Northern Arapaho together with the warriors who had come north after the Sand Creek massacre raided the Oregon Trail along the North Platte River, and in July, 1865 attacked the troops stationed at the bridge across the North Platte at the present site of Casper, Wyoming, the Battle of the Platte Bridge Station.

Powder River War
In 1865 Major General Grenville M. Dodge ordered a punitive expedition against the Sioux, Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes that lived in the Black Hills region. General Patrick E. Connor was placed in command with hundreds of regular and volunteer soldiers at his disposal. Connor divided his force into three columns, the first was under Colonel Nelson Cole and was assigned to operate along the Loup River of Nebraska. The second column, under Lt Col Samuel Walker, would travel north from Fort Laramie to occupy an area west of the Black Hills while the third, led by General Connor and Colonel James H. Kidd, would march up the Powder River. Only minor skirmishing occurred until August 29, 1865, when Connor's column of about 400 men encountered about 500 Arapahos of Chief Black Bear in the Battle of the Tongue River. That morning Connor's men charged and captured a village and routed the defenders who counterattacked unsuccessfully. A few days later a small party of soldiers and civilian surveyors was attacked by the Arapaho in what became known as the Sawyers Fight, three Americans were killed and it marked the last skirmish of the Powder River War.

Red Cloud's War
Due to increasing demand of safe travel along the Bozeman Trail to the Montana gold fields, the US government tried to negotiate new treaties with the Lakota Indians who were legally entitled to the Powder River country, through which the trail led, by the Treaty of Fort Laramie. Because the military sent simultaneously two battalions of the 18th Infantry under the command of Colonel Henry B. Carrington to establish new forts to watch over the Bozeman Road, the Indians refused to sign any treaty and left Fort Laramie determined to defend their land.

Carrington reinforced Fort Reno and established two additional forts further north (Fort Phil Kearny and Fort C. F. Smith) in the summer of 1866. His strategy, based on his orders from higher headquarters, was to secure the road, rather than fight the Indians. At the same time Red Cloud and the other chiefs soon became aware that they were unable to defeat a fully defended fort, so they kept to raiding every wagon train and traveling party they could find along the road.

Young eager warriors from the Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes formed war parties who would attack woodcutting parties near the forts as well as freight trains to cut their supplies. Crazy Horse from the Oglala, Gall from the Hunkpapas and Hump from the Miniconjous were the best known ones among them. On December 21, 1866, Indians fired on woodcutters working near Fort Phil Kearny. The relief party was commanded by Captain William J. Fetterman. Fetterman's party was drawn into an ambush by an estimated 1,000–3,000 Indians and wiped out. Due to the high casualties on the American side, the Indians called the fight the "Battle of the Hundred Slain" ever since; among the Whites, it was called the "Fetterman Massacre".

The US government came to the conclusion after the Fetterman Fight that the forts along the Bozeman Trail were expensive to maintain (both in terms of supplies and manpower) and did not bring the intended security for travelers along the Road. However Red Cloud refused to attend any meeting with treaty commissions during 1867. Only after the army evacuated the forts in the Powder River country and the Indians burned down all three of them, did he travel to Fort Laramie in the summer of 1868, where the Treaty of Fort Laramie (1868) was signed. It established the Great Sioux Reservation which included all South Dakota territory west of the Missouri river. It also declared additional territory reaching as far as the Yellowstone and North Platte rivers as unceded territory for sole use by the Indians.

The early 1870s fights
On May 7, 1868, the Crow tribe ceded land to the United States, including areas along the Yellowstone, Montana. The army came under attack by Lakotas in 1872, while it protected surveying expeditions for the Northern Pacific Railway down the river. The next year, the Lakotas carried out attacks on the U.S. army in the five years old U.S. territory at Honsinger Bluff and Pease Bottom. Further east, soldiers and Arikara scouts from Fort McKean at the Missouri had to fight attacking Lakotas on August 26, 1872. Nearly 300 Lakotas attacked the fort on October 14. Around 100 Lakotas attacked close by Fort Abraham Lincoln on May 7, 1873. Both forts were located in former Lakota territory, which the tribe had ceded to the United States at the same time as the establishment of the Great Sioux Reservation in 1868.

Especially after the Lakota massacre on the Pawnee Indians in the south-western Nebraska on August 5, 1873, the Commissioner of Indian Affairs advocated a firmer line against all Lakotas harassing people, both Indians and whites, outside the recognized 1868 Lakota domain. "In his 1873 annual report he recommended ... that those [Sioux] Indians roaming west of the Dakota line be forced by the military to come in to the Great Sioux Reservation". "The Great Sioux War" could have started in 1873, but nothing came about.

Great Sioux War
The Great Sioux War refers to a series of conflicts from 1876 to 1877 involving the Lakota Sioux and Northern Cheyenne tribes. Following the influx of gold miners to the Black Hills of South Dakota, war broke out when the followers of Chiefs Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse left their reservations, apparently to go on the war path and defend the sacred Black Hills.

In the first major fight of the war, on March 17, 1876, about 300 men under Colonel Joseph J. Reynolds attacked 225 Northern Cheyenne and a few Oglala Sioux warriors in the Battle of Powder River, which ended with a United States victory. During the fighting, the Cheyenne were forced to retreat with their families further up the Powder River, leaving behind large quantities of weapons and ammunition. Next came the major Battle of the Rosebud on June 17, when 1,500 Lakota Sioux and Northern Cheyenne warriors, led by Crazy Horse himself, defeated a force of 1,300 Americans under General George Crook. Crook was forced to retreat, which helped set the stage for the infamous Battle of the Little Bighorn on June 25. Lieutenant Colonel George Custer, leading an attack on a large Indian encampment and commanding a force of over 600 troops, was badly defeated with the loss of over 300 men killed or wounded, including himself.

The next major engagement occurred at Slim Buttes on September 9 and 10, when elements of the 1st Cavalry Regiment led by Captain Anson Mills, while moving toward Deadwood to secure supplies for Crook's command, located and attacked a Sioux village. The Dull Knife Fight, on November 25, and the Battle of Wolf Mountain on January 8, 1877, were the last major fights in the conflict. During the latter, Nelson A. Miles defended a ridge from a series of failed attacks led by Crazy Horse, who ultimately surrendered at Camp Robinson in May 1877, thus ending the war.

Ghost Dance War
From November 1890 to January 1891, unresolved grievances led to the last major conflict with the Sioux. A lopsided engagement that involved almost half the infantry and cavalry of the Regular Army caused the surviving warriors to lay down their arms and retreat to their reservations.

That autumn, the Sioux were moved to a large reservation in the Dakota Territory, but the government pressured them to sign a treaty giving up much of their land. Sitting Bull had previously returned from Canada and held the Sioux resistance together for a few years. But in the summer of 1889, the reservation agent, James McLaughlin, was able to secure the Sioux's signatures by keeping the final treaty council a secret from Sitting Bull. The treaty broke up their 35,000 acres (142 km2) into six small reservations.

In October 1890, Kicking Bear and Short Bull brought the Sioux one last hope of resistance. They taught them the Ghost Dance, something they had learned from Wovoka, a Paiute medicine man. He told them that in the spring, the earth would be covered with a new layer of soil that would bury the white men while the Native Americans who did the Ghost Dance would be suspended in the air. The grass and the buffalo would return, along with the ghosts of their dead ancestors. The Ghost Dance movement spread across western reservations. The U.S. government considered it a threat and sent out its military.

On the Sioux reservations, McLaughlin had Kicking Bear arrested, while Sitting Bull's arrest on December 15, 1890, resulted in a struggle between reservation police and Ghost Dancers in which Sitting Bull was killed. Two weeks later, the military intercepted Big Foot's band of Ghost Dancers. They were Miniconjou Sioux, mostly women who had lost husbands and other male relatives in the wars with the U.S. military. When Colonel James W. Forsyth tried to disarm the last Miniconjou of his rifle, a shot broke out, and the surrounding soldiers opened fire. Hotchkiss guns shredded the camp on Wounded Knee Creek, killing, according to one estimate, 300 of 350 men, women, and children.

Stranded 9th Cavalry
The battalion of 9th Cavalry Regiment was scouting near the White River (Missouri River tributary), about 50 miles north of Indian agency at Pine Ridge, when the Wounded Knee Massacre occurred, and rode south all night to reach the reservation. In the early morning of December 30, 1890, F, I, and K Troops reached the Pine Ridge agency, however, their supply wagon guarded by D Troop located behind them was attacked by 50 Sioux warriors near Cheyenne Creek (about 2 miles from the Indian agency). One soldier was immediately killed. The wagon train protected itself by circling the wagons. Corporal William Wilson volunteered to take a message to the agency at Pine Ridge to get help after the Indian scouts refused to go. Wilson took off through the wagon circle with Sioux in pursuit and his troops covering him. Wilson reached the agency and spread the alarm. The 9th Cavalry within the agency came to rescue the stranded troopers and the Sioux dispersed. For his actions, Corporal Wilson received the Medal of Honor.

Drexel Mission Fight
The Drexel Mission Fight followed later in the day.

Winter guards
The 9th Cavalry were stationed on the Pine Ridge reservation through the rest of the winter of 1890–1891 until March 1891, lodging in their tents. By then, the 9th Cavalry was the only regiment on the reservation after being the first to arrive in November 1890.

title: Sioux Wars


text:
List of honey bee pheromones

The pheromones of the honey bee are mixtures of chemical substances released by individual bees into the hive or environment that cause changes in the physiology and behaviour of other bees.

Introduction
Honey bees (Apis mellifera) have one of the most complex pheromonal communication systems found in nature, possessing 15 known glands that produce an array of compounds. These chemical messengers secreted by a queen, drone, worker bee or laying worker bee to elicit a response in other bees. The chemical messages are received by the bee's antenna and other body parts. They are produced as a volatile or non-volatile liquid and transmitted by direct contact as a liquid or vapor.

Honey bee pheromones can be grouped into releaser pheromones which temporarily affect the recipient's behavior, and primer pheromones which have a long-term effect on the physiology of the recipient. Releaser pheromones trigger an almost immediate behavioral response from the receiving bee. Under certain conditions a pheromone can act as both a releaser and primer pheromone.

The pheromones may either be single chemicals or a complex mixture of numerous chemicals in different percentages.

Alarm pheromone
Two main alarm pheromones have been identified in honeybee workers. One is released by the Koschevnikov gland, near the sting shaft, and consists of more than 40 chemical compounds, including isopentyl acetate (IPA), butyl acetate, 1-hexanol, n-butanol, 1-octanol, hexyl acetate, octyl acetate, n-pentyl acetate and 2-nonanol. These chemical compounds have low molecular weights, are highly volatile, and appear to be the least specific of all pheromones. Alarm pheromones are released when a bee stings another animal, and attract other bees to the location and causes the other bees to behave defensively, i.e. sting or charge. The alarm pheromone emitted when a bee stings another animal smells like bananas. Smoke can mask the bees' alarm pheromone.

The other alarm pheromone is released by the mandibular glands and consists of 2-heptanone, which is also a highly volatile substance. This compound has a repellent effect and it was proposed that it is used to deter potential enemies and robber bees. The amounts of 2-heptanone increase with the age of bees and becomes higher in the case of foragers. It was therefore suggested that 2-heptanone is used by foragers to scent-mark recently visited and depleted foraging locations, which indeed are avoided by foraging bees. However, this has recently been proven false. In a new discovery, it was determined that bees actually use 2-heptanone as an anesthetic and to paralyze intruders. After the intruders are paralyzed, the bees remove them from the hive.

Brood recognition pheromone
Another pheromone is responsible for preventing worker bees from bearing offspring in a colony that still has developing young. Both larvae and pupae emit a "brood recognition" pheromone. This inhibits ovarian development in worker bees and helps nurse bees distinguish worker larvae from drone larvae and pupae. This pheromone is a ten-component blend of fatty-acid esters, which also modulates adult caste ratios and foraging ontogeny dependent on its concentration. The components of brood pheromone have been shown to vary with the age of the developing bee. An artificial brood pheromone was invented by Yves Le Conte, Leam Sreng, Jérome Trouiller, and Serge Henri Poitou and patented in 1996.

Drone pheromone
Drone Mandibular Pheromone attracts other flying drones to suitable sites for mating with virgin queens.

Dufour's gland pheromone
The Dufour's gland (named after the French naturalist Léon Jean Marie Dufour) opens into the dorsal vaginal wall. Dufour’s gland and its secretion have been somewhat of a mystery. The gland secretes its alkaline products into the vaginal cavity, and it has been assumed to be deposited on the eggs as they are laid. Indeed, Dufour’s secretions allow worker bees to distinguish between eggs laid by the queen, which are attractive, and those laid by workers. The complex of as many as 24 chemicals differs between workers in "queenright" colonies and workers of queenless colonies. In the latter, the workers’ Dufour secretions are similar to those of a healthy queen. The secretions of workers in queenright colonies are long-chain alkanes with odd numbers of carbon atoms, but those of egg-laying queens and egg-laying workers of queenless colonies also include long chain esters.

Egg marking pheromone
This pheromone, similar to that described above, helps nurse bees distinguish between eggs laid by the queen bee and eggs laid by a laying worker.

Footprint pheromone
This pheromone is left by bees when they walk and is useful in enhancing Nasonov pheromones in searching for nectar.

In the queen, it is an oily secretion of the queen's tarsal glands that is deposited on the comb as she walks across it. This inhibits queen cell construction (thereby inhibiting swarming), and its production diminishes as the queen ages.

Forager pheromone
Ethyl oleate is released by older forager bees to slow the maturing of nurse bees. This primer pheromone acts as a distributed regulator to keep the ratio of nurse bees to forager bees in the balance that is most beneficial to the hive.

Nasonov pheromone
Nasonov pheromone is emitted by the worker bees and used for orientation and recruitment. Nasonov pheromone includes a number of terpenoids including geraniol, nerolic acid, citral and geranic acid.

Other pheromones
Other pheromones produced by most honey bees include rectal gland pheromone, tarsal pheromone, wax gland and comb pheromone, and tergite gland pheromone.

Queen mandibular pheromone
Queen mandibular pheromone (QMP), emitted by the queen, is one of the most important sets of pheromones in the bee hive. It affects social behavior, maintenance of the hive, swarming, mating behavior, and inhibition of ovary development in worker bees. The effects can be short term or long term or both. Some of the chemicals found in QMP are carboxylic acids and aromatic compounds. The following compounds have been shown to be important in retinue attraction of workers to their queen and other effects.
 * (E)-9-Oxodec-2-enoic acid (9-ODA) – inhibits queen rearing as well as ovarian development in worker bees; strong sexual attractant for drones when on a nuptial flight; critical to worker recognition of the presence of a queen in the hive
 * (R,E)-(−)-9-Hydroxydec-2-enoic acid] (-9-HDA) promotes stability of a swarm, or a "calming" influence
 * (S,E)-(+)-9-Hydroxydec-2-enoic acid (+9-HDA)
 * Methylparaben (also known as methyl p-hydroxybenzoate) (HOB)
 * 4-Hydroxy-3-methoxy phenylethanol (HVA)

Work on synthetic pheromones was done by Keith N. Slessor, Lori-ann Kaminski, Gaylord G. S. King, John H. Borden, and Mark L. Winston; their work was patented in 1991. Synthetic queen mandibular pheromone (QMP) is a mixture of five components: 9-ODA, (−)-9-HDA, (+)-9-HDA, HOB and HVA in a ratio of 118:50:22:10:1.

Queen retinue pheromone
The following compounds have also been identified, of which only coniferyl alcohol is found in the mandibular glands. The combination of the 5 QMP compounds and the 4 compounds below is called the queen retinue pheromone (QRP). These nine compounds are important for the retinue attraction of worker bees around their queen.
 * Methyl oleate
 * Coniferyl alcohol
 * Cetyl alcohol
 * α-Linolenic acid

Other
The queen also contains an abundance of various methyl and ethyl fatty acid esters, very similar to the brood recognition pheromone described above. They are likely to have pheromonal functions like those found for the brood recognition pheromone.

References listed alphabetically by author

 * Imrie, George Georg Imrie's, Pink Pages Nov. 1999
 * Blum, M.S. 1992. Honey bee pheromones in The Hive and the Honey Bee, revised edition (Dadant and Sons: Hamilton, Illinois), pages 385–389.
 * Butler, C. 1609. The Feminine Monarchie. On a Treatise Concerning Bees, and the Due Ordering of them. Joseph Barnes: Oxford.
 * Free, John B., Pheromones of social bees. Ithaca, N.Y.:  Comstock, 1987.
 * Imrie, George George Imrie's Pink Pages November 1999 accessed Feb. 2005
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press
 * Imrie, George George Imrie's Pink Pages November 1999 accessed Feb. 2005
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press
 * Vander Meer, R.K. et al. 1998. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects; Boulder: Westview Press

title: List of honey bee pheromones


text:
Category talk:Airlines of Albania

Will there be very many more entries in this category? --Wetman 15:44, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we are now past the idea that articles that belong in small natural categories should be left hanging around in parent categories instead. CalJW 22:59, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Airlines of Albania


text:
Sengann

Sengann (modern spelling: Seangann, "old-mean") is the name of two early settlers of Ireland according to Irish mythology.

 * Sengann, a king of the Fomorians who was defeated, along with his brother Gann, by Nemed
 * Sengann mac Dela, son of Dela of the Fir Bolg, a legendary early High King of Ireland in the 16th or 20th century BC

title: Sengann


text:
Jan Kupecký

Ján Kupecký or Jan Kupecký (in German: Johann Kupetzky, in Hungarian: Kupecky János, or Kupeczky János, 1667 – July 16, 1740) was a Czech portrait painter during the baroque. He was active in Hungary, Vienna and Nürnberg. Bernhard Vogel produced many engravings after Kupecký's paintings.

Life
Kupecký, like many people at that time, was the son of Protestant (Czech Brethren) parents from the Czech lands (Mladá Boleslav) who sought refuge in  Royal Hungary from religious persecution by the Catholics. He was born in Pezinok – a town near Pressburg.

According to the sources he began his studies with the Swiss painter Benedikt Klaus, who was active in both Vienna and in Royal Hungary. At the age of twenty, Kupecký went on a long Italian study trip. In Rome Prince Aleksander Benedykt Sobieski, the son of the Polish king John III Sobieski, helped him to become famous. He returned to Vienna in 1709, after twenty-two years spent in Venice and Rome. We know little of his Italian activity as well as his early works and his setting in Vienna.

According to his contemporary biographer, the Swiss Johann Caspar Füssli, the Protestant Kupecký, who faithfully clung to his ancestor's religion, remained withdrawn and isolated in Vienna's Catholic milieu, which was under the influence of the court and the aristocracy. However this concept is partly contradicted by the fact that the master had significant courtly commissions while working in Vienna. He painted portraits of various members of the dynasty, Prince Eugene of Savoy, several aristocrats, and, in Karlovy Vary, even of the Russian Czar Peter I. The rich oeuvre of this period comprises a series of gorgeous portraits of Kupecky's family, friends and the painter himself, as well as several persons, whose identity in unknown.

In 1733 Kupecký, fearing religious persecution, fled from Vienna to Nuremberg with his family and worked there until his death in 1740. As the most significant portrait painter of contemporary Germany, he was commissioned by many German princes, church dignitaries rich merchants and scholars, and his works were popularized by engravings even during his lifetime. Through his pupils and followers Kupecký's influence and artistic example remained alive and widespread for a long time.

Work
His inspirations were Caravaggio, Reni and Rembrandt.

His paintings include: and many other paintings
 * Portrait of Peter I of Russia
 * Portrait of Alexei Petrovich, Tsarevich of Russia
 * Portrait of Matej Bel
 * Kuruc fighter

The City Gallery of Bratislava owns the most complete collection of graphic leaves of his paintings.

title: Jan Kupecký


text:
Talk:Nibelung

Hel?
I'm just trying to dab Hel, but where it says Hel in this article, it is refering to a place and not a goddess. Hel is the goddess of the underworlds, Helheim and Niflheim, in Norse mythology, so could the person who wrote the intro be refering to the underworlds ruled by Hel? BlankVerse 15:17, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Language correction - English does inflect nouns in the genitive, which was the point of this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smallmanl (talk • contribs) 07:06, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

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Rewrite
I think this page needs to be completely rewritten. I might give it a go once I finish dealing with Gudrun.--Ermenrich (talk) 18:34, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 27 June 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. There is no consensus or pressing reason to move the page. According to the policies of the English Wikipedia it is acceptable to write about the Nibelungen legend in an article titled Nibelung. The topic here is everything related to Nibelung, including all aspects of the Nibelungen legend such as the historical origins of the saga, theories of its development, etc. (non-admin closure) — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 12:45, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Nibelung → Nibelungen legend – The current name is more suited for a dictionary entry. With an article on the Nibelungen legend, it would be possible to discuss issues such as the historical origins of the saga, theories of its development, etc, all in one convenient place. Ermenrich (talk) 14:08, 27 June 2018 (UTC) I should note: the current interwiki link to German wikipedia is to Nibelungensage, the equivalent of my proposed name here.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:11, 27 June 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412  T 02:05, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

 * Oppose. Nomination appears to be pure personal preference, contrary to policy, and if a !vote would be discarded on those grounds. Andrewa (talk) 05:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I should elaborate: my "personal preference" is that this word be defined under the proper heading. At the moment "Nibelung" is little more than a dictionary entry with some information on where it appears. The German wiki strikes me as a much better model, wherein the word can be defined in the larger context of the Nibelungen legend. I do not believe that a vote in favor should be discarded, as I don't believe this is a purely personal preference based move. If, however, there is no support for a move (as it appears at the moment), then there is no support for a move. The page, as it stands, cannot stay this way though, that much is clear.--Ermenrich (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The page, as it stands, cannot stay this way though, that much is clear. Agree. It's a mess, as you suggested in above.  But disagree with your initial nominator's comment The current name is more suited for a dictionary entry as it makes exactly the same mistake as has led to this mess. The current name perfectly identifies a topic on which we should have an article, but that topic is the things called Nibelung, not the term Nibelung. And that's the basic problem here. (German Wikipedia may handle things differently, I don't know.) Andrewa (talk) 04:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I am closing this as not moved. I welcome a rewrite. If after the rewrite it appears that Nibelungen legend would be a better title this can be revisited. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 12:45, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Further discussion
Let me start again.

Our page Nibelungenlied starts out "The Nibelungenlied (Middle High German: Der Nibelunge liet or Der Nibelunge nôt), translated as The Song of the Nibelungs, is"...

Now that's not sourced inline, and fixing that other article lead would be good (that's part of this mess), and Wikipedia is not itself a reliable secondary source. But let us take it at face value, and assume that it's not a load of rubbish, and that means that there are reliable English sources that do translate it like this. SO what's a Nibelung in these sources? What does Nibelung mean in English?

Because that's what this article lead should say (and source). And it doesn't. And that's the key to this mess. Yes, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Our articles are not generally about terms (and that again is the basic mistake being made here). But our article leads do need to clearly identify the topic.

And again assuming that the other article lead is accurate, Nibelung appears to be an encyclopedic topic. And assuming that this other article is not currently also a load of rubbish, Nibelungs appear in many other notable writings apart from Nibelungenlied. So, what are they? That's what we need this article to tell both us and our readers. Andrewa (talk) 20:11, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

 * At face value there are two possible topics that can be connected to this title. A Nibelung is either:
 * 1) (in Germanic mythology) a member of a Scandinavian race of dwarfs, owners of a hoard of gold and magic treasures, who were ruled by Nibelung, king of Nibelheim (land of mist).
 * 2) (in the Nibelungenlied) a supporter of Siegfried, or one of the Burgundians who stole the hoard from him.
 * The Nibelungenlied is an easy topic to understand. Nibelungs connected to that are well studied and something can be written there. The other usage is mythological, thus not attributed to any main literary work, but instead spread throughout many works and oral tradition. This is less easily defined and attempts to do so are why the current article is so fragmented.
 * Nibelung is a personal name. To translate it to English would be like trying to translate Jones to Middle High German. That is there is no point, all that can be derived is already stated, Nibelheim is the land of mist. — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 21:25, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * As Frayae states, Nibelung is a proper name. In addition, in the Nibelungenlied, the word Nibelung is used in contradictory ways. In the first half of the epic it refers to: 1) a king Nibelung 2) that king's son Nibelung 3) a country inhabited by "Nibelungen" (der Nibelunge lant) and ruled by Nibelung (2) and his brother Schiblung. In the second half of the epic, it refers primarily to the Burgundians (i.e. Gunther, Hagen, and co.). In some other German sources, it is the name of a dwarf. In all of these cases, its connected to the "hoard of the Nibelung", the treasure for which Siegfried is killed and which contributes to the death of the Burgundians. In the Norse sources, the cognate Niflung primarily means the Burgundians/Gjukings (Gibichungs). A bit of this is already covered in the theories of etymology and origin I've already added here.

 * The translation "The Song of the Nibelungs" doesn't appear in the list of translations on the Nibelungenlied article, strangely (an oversight?), but can be found here, here, and here. If it needs an inline citation it can easily be provided, if you think it should. The alternative translation "The Lay of the Nibelungs" is well attested there as well.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:14, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I should add: the meaning of the word Nibelung as a race of dwarfs living in Nibelheim is an invention of Richard Wagner based on various older scholarly theories about the meaning of the word. It isn't actually attested in this meaning in any medieval work.--Ermenrich (talk) 01:05, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

We seem to have several related but distinct meanings of Nibelung: Are there others? Andrewa (talk) 02:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * A personal name, particularly applied to dwarfs in German legend
 * Several characters in Nibelungenlied and/or their supporters
 * A race of dwarfs in the works of Richard Wagner (can we be more specific?)
 * I think that's it. My idea at the moment is to have the balk of the article just discussing the Gibichungs/Gjukings, which is sort of the "primary" meaning of the term. Then a bit on the other characters with the name in German legend. I'm afraid I don't know too much about reliable sources on Wagner, but I might be able to find something.--Ermenrich (talk) 03:51, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably something about the "hoard of the Nibelungs" in its Norse and German variants ought to be said too...--Ermenrich (talk) 13:31, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

*Nivialah
Gillespie is wrong if he really wrote it is Celtic, because it is Germanic. He is not a specialist of the Celtic languages. There is no *alah in the Celtic languages. In all the sources it is said it is Germanic. Check it here for instance https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/alhs. *Nivi-alah is a very well studied compound in Northern French toponymy, only in the very north of France where there were Germanic settlements, and nowhere else, that gave birth for instance to the place-names such as Neaufles, Neauphle, Niafles, etc. In addition the Nibelungen have nothing to do with the Celts. Nortmannus (talk) 05:14, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

 * You need RS to contest another RS, which Wiktionary is not. The question is not whether the Nibelungen have anything to do with the Celts, but whether the name Nivelles does. According to Gillespie there is a Celtic theory as well as a Germanic one.—Ermenrich (talk) 12:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

 * , I believe that you are right and that this is a Germanic (Frankish) toponym. However, we don't write about the Truth here. We only add information per WP:RS.--Berig (talk) 22:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes and it is exactly the same. Alah is not a Celtic root at all. It is althochdeutsch, altsächsisch and the Gothic form is ahls. Gillespie is completely wrong. There is no Celtic theory about this compound, it is just the wrong statement of a single man. Question : is he notorious in linguistics ? What did he publish ?. Yes Berig, we don’t write about the truth, but giving a single source is about the same as giving your own opinion and widespreading a personnal theory.Nortmannus (talk) 00:54, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You don't seem to have gotten the bit about needing wp:RS... You can tell us your personal opinion all day long but you can't edit the article based on it. According to Gillespie: H. Grégoire, 'La patrie des Nibelungen', Byzantion ix (1934), 34 ff., suggests a Celtic origin for the name, *Nivialah, 'new temple'. If you're unhappy with that, you'll have to take it up with him. Gillespie also includes the proposed Germanic etymology *Niuwi-alha "new sanctuary" cited to "Kaufmann, 268 f. It's clear that Gillespie did not think of these two etymologies as being the same, which appears to be what you are arguing. Unless you can show that Gregoire did not propose a Celtic etymology *Nivialah, you can't remove it just because you disapprove.--Ermenrich (talk) 01:12, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Grégoire’s book as a source for Celtic linguistics, what a joke ! Selecting such a source as a valid one to propose a Celtic etymology and giving your personal opinion is nearly the same. This single choice is a personal opinion, because it is not counter-balanced by any specialized source about this precise subject of the Celtic languages, such as Rhuys, Pokorny, Lambert, etc. Nortmannus (talk) 02:05, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Um, Grégoire wrote an article. Since you don’t seem to have been able to read the citation I’m not sure why you’re so dismissive.—Ermenrich (talk) 02:08, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

I know he does not belong to the specialists of Celtic. I never read his name in any bibliography of any book having to do with the Celtic languages and it is enough for me. In which way can he be compared to Julius Pokorny, Peter Schrijver, John Rhys, Pierre-Yves Lambert, Georges Dottin, etc. ? Nortmannus (talk) 02:22, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The only way, you can go ahead here is to show that the Celtic derivation is a minority one, per WP:DUE.--Berig (talk) 05:22, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Grégoire is on JSTOR - he refers to scholars making a Celtic derivation: Joseph Mansion Oud-Gentsche Naamkunde (1924), derives it from Celtic, as does Kurth Frontière linguistique I 468. However, Gillespie appears to have read the page incorrectly (perhaps his French was bad), because Grégoire says that *Nivialah is "vieux germanique" and does not provide a proposed form for the Celtic toponym. So I will amend the page accordingly.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:02, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Brilliant!--Berig (talk) 15:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

The Dronke reference notes (or whatever they are called) do not work.
Anyone? 2A00:23C7:2B13:9001:D4E3:C1DF:500C:A440 (talk) 21:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nibelung