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Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery

The Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery is the artillery regiment of the New Zealand Army. It is effectively a military administrative corps, and can comprise multiple component regiments. This nomenclature stems from its heritage as an offshoot of the British Army's Royal Artillery. In its current form it was founded in 1947 with the amalgamation of the regular and volunteer corps of artillery in New Zealand. In 1958 in recognition of services rendered it was given the title the Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery.

Predecessors and formation
The Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery's predecessor units in the Volunteer Force date from February 1866, when the first field artillery battery and naval artillery corps were formed. From 1878 the various field batteries were administratively grouped together as the New Zealand Regiment of Artillery Volunteers, and were designated alphabetically. The naval artillery batteries were grouped as the New Zealand Garrison Artillery Volunteers in 1902. Meanwhile, the establishment of coast defences from the mid-1880s had necessitated the creation of a small permanent artillery force within the Permanent Military, which was designated the Royal New Zealand Artillery (RNZA) on 15 October 1902. Following the formation of the Territorial Force in 1911 the Regiment of New Zealand Field Artillery and the New Zealand Garrison Artillery Volunteers became part of the New Zealand Artillery. During this time the permanent RNZA maintained an instructional and cadre role.

Between 2–5 August 1914 pre-war plans to establish harbour examination batteries and mobilise the then Royal New Zealand Artillery (active force) and New Zealand Garrison Artillery (territorials) were carried out. The examination batteries' task was to interrogate unidentified vessels entering port. The examination batteries at Fort Takapuna, Point Gordon in Wellington, Fort Jervois and Howlett Point at the entrance to Port Chalmers were manned around the clock until 15 March 1915. After that date guns and equipment were maintained at a high state of readiness, with battery personnel available at a few hours' notice.' During initial mobilisation for the First World War, it was intended that one six-gun 18-pounder battery would form part of the initial contingent of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force. Following large numbers volunteering for artillery, it was decided to raise the a brigade of three batteries, totalling twelve 18-pounders. The initial brigade departed with the rest of the Main Body on 16 October 1914. Eventually two New Zealand field artillery brigades (regiment-sized units) served with the New Zealand and Australian Division. Following the end of the war the New Zealand Artillery was renamed the Regiment of New Zealand Artillery.

During the Second World War, 4, 5 and 6 Field Regiments sailed with the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force; initially also despatched was 7 Anti-Tank Regiment and 14 Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment. A number of artillery regiments and batteries served with the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force in the Pacific (2 NZEF IP), and 3rd Division. After the war ended, the Territorial Force was reconstituted in the late 1940s, and a number of field, mortar (5th Light Regiment RNZA), and coastal units were created. In January 1947 the Regiment of New Zealand Artillery was amalgamated with the RNZA.

Korean War
When the Korean War broke out in June 1950, a Regular Force regiment, 16th Field Regiment RNZA, was established as the core of New Zealand's deployed contingent, known as Kayforce, in January 1951. The 5th Anti-Tank Regiment was disbanded during this time, in 1950. The battery was attached to the 27th British Brigade of the 1st Commonwealth Division. The 16th Field Regiment first saw action a month later and remained on active service for the next two and a half years. The 16th Field Regiment subsequently provided close support to the British Commonwealth infantry and was later awarded the South Korean Presidential Unit Citation for its actions during the Battle of Kapyong in April 1951. Between 1951 and 1953 the regiment fired more than 750,000 shells, operating 25-pounders. After the Armistice was signed in 1954, Kayforce’s numbers were gradually reduced. The 16th Field Regiment and other Corps elements were withdrawn in 1955. The last elements of Kayforce returned to New Zealand in 1957.

1950s
In 1955, the regiment consisted of the following units:
 * District Troops
 * Northern Military District
 * 9th Coast Regiment (Auckland)
 * 13th Composite Anti-aircraft Regiment
 * Central Military District
 * 10th Coast Regiment (Wellington)
 * 14th Composite Anti-aircraft Regiment
 * Southern Military District
 * 11th Coast Regiment (Lyttleton Respectively)
 * 151st Composite Anti-aircraft Battery RNZA (15th Composite AA Regiment disbanded Sept 1954)
 * Divisional Troops
 * Headquarters Royal Artillery
 * Command
 * Royal Artillery Staff Troop
 * Divisional Counter Bombardment Staff Troop
 * 1st Field Regiment (Auckland)
 * 2nd Field Regiment (Palmerston North)
 * 3rd Field Regiment (Dunedin)
 * 4th Medium Regiment (Hamilton)
 * 5th Light Regiment (Wellington)
 * 6th Light Anti-aircraft Regiment (Auckland)
 * 12th Heavy Anti-aircraft Regiment (HQ Auckland)
 * 1st Locating Battery

The 1957 National Government defence review directed the discontinuation of coastal defence training, and the approximately 1000 personnel of the 9th, 10th, and 11th Coastal Regiments had their Compulsory Military Training obligation removed. A small cadre of regulars remained, but as Henderson, Green, and Cook say, 'the coastal artillery had quietly died.' All the fixed guns were dismantled and sold for scrap by the early 1960s. The three regiments survived on paper until 1967, 'each in its final years at an actual strength of a single warrant officer, the District Gunner, whose duties mainly involved taking care of the mobile 3.7-inch guns allocated for emergency harbour defences.'

In 1958 the regiment was redesignated the Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery. The 16th Field Regiment RNZA was reformed at this time as part of the Regular Force Brigade Group. In 1961 the last two anti-aircraft regiments were disbanded. Meanwhile, from 1963 Italian designed 105-mm L5 Pack Howitzers began replacing the 25-pounders. 5th Light Regiment RNZA was disbanded in 1964.

Vietnam War

A rotational RNZA battery was deployed to South Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

In 1965 the United States government committed its 173rd Airborne Brigade to South Vietnam in a combat role. Being part of the ANZUS pact Australia and New Zealand were asked to contribute military forces too. Up until this time the Australians had committed an Army training team and New Zealand had committed some non-combatant engineers. In response to the United States' request, the Australian government committed an infantry battalion and New Zealand committed an artillery battery. 161 Field Battery, RNZA arrived in South Vietnam on 16 July 1965. The Australian infantry regiment and the New Zealand artillery battery served under operational control of the 173rd Airborne, from the Bien Hoa Air Base in Biên Hòa Province. 161 Bty was attached as the third battery of the US 3rd Battalion, 319th Field Artillery Regiment. The battery began with base protection activities and Harassment and Interdiction (H&I) fire based on intelligence reports. By August the battery was deploying with Australian forces to support infantry operations, either by Australian armoured personnel carriers or by UH1B and the UH1D Iroquois helicopters.

The New Zealand battery and the Australian infantry battalion began their first major operation with the Americans on 14 September 1965 in Operation Ben Cat. Sergeant Alastair John Sherwood Don and Bombardier Robert White of 161 Bty were the first New Zealand casualties of the Vietnam War when the front of their vehicle was blown up by a Vietcong command detonated mine during the initial road convoy.

On operations New Zealand Forward Observers patrolled with U.S and Australian infantry to direct artillery fire when called upon.

In their first year, under U.S command, the battery took part in:
 * Operation Ben Cat (14-28 September 1965)
 * Battle of Gang Toi during Operation Hump
 * Operation New Life (15 November – 16 December 1965)
 * Operation Marauder (1–8 January 1966)
 * Operation Crimp (8–16 January 1966)
 * Operation Entrée in general support of 1/503 US Infantry's operations,
 * Battle of Suoi Bong Trang during Operation Rolling Stone in support of 1RAR,
 * Operation Abilene in support of 1st US Infantry Division,
 * Operation Denver as part of "Force Essex", and
 * Operation Enoggera in support of newly arrived 6RAR.

In May 1966 it was decided to create an Australian task force with its own tactical area of responsibility (TAOR.) Phước Tuy Province was to be designated the TAOR for the new task force.

The 1st Australian Task Force (1ATF) was formed in June 1966, with a base built at Nui Dat. The New Zealand government was given the choice of allowing the artillery battery to remain at Bien Hoa under U.S command with the 173rd Airborne or integrate the battery with the new task force. The decision was made to integrate the battery into 1ATF under 105 Battery, Royal Australian Artillery which had arrived at the end of September 1965.

In the 1991 movie documentary The Cu Chi Tunnels Vietcong survivors who hid in the Cu Chi tunnels during Operation Crimp said they called the artillery bombardments above them "The New Zealand Dong Dun Orchestra."

As part of 1ATF, the New Zealand battery is remembered well for its role in the Battle of Long Tan on 18 August 1966, during which it played a key role in supporting the outnumbered Australian infantry from D Company, 6th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment hold off a regimental-sized Viet Cong force. Three New Zealand artillery Forward Observers attached to D Company controlled the guns of their own battery, the two Australian batteries, and two American batteries – a total of 24 guns, in support of themselves and the rest of D Company for more than 3.5 hours firing 6-8 rounds per minute almost non-stop.

In 1967 the battery's L5 howitzers were replaced by heavier and more robust American M2A2 Howitzers.

Also in 1967, the first company of New Zealand infantry arrived, followed by a second company in December 1967. The two infantry companies eventually amalgamated with one of the three 1ATF battalions in March 1968 to form the "ANZAC Battalion." This practice continued with each New Zealand infantry company rotating with or within 6 months of a new rotation of Australian infantry, designated "ANZAC Battalion" each time.

The battery would continue to support allied forces throughout its entire time in Vietnam, notably Operation Bribie in 1967, and Operation Coburg, the Tet Offensive and the Battle of Coral–Balmoral in 1968. As Australian and New Zealand combat units began to be withdrawn in keeping with US troop reductions, the battery was withdrawn in May 1971. The battery was involved in 17 major operations during their time in Vietnam. It was the longest serving Allied unit in South Vietnam after the 173rd Airborne Brigade, having been continuously deployed for six years, ten months and 21 days.

Approximately 750 members of the 161st Battery served in Vietnam with a loss of 5 killed and 22 wounded.

1980s–1990s
A range of new capabilities were introduced during this period. In 1986 the British designed, Australian produced 105-mm L119 Hamel Light Gun was introduced, while computerized artillery systems were introduced in 1989, and global positioning systems in 1997, which resulted in a significant increase in capability. In 1997 the French Mistral short range air defence missile was acquired, providing an anti-aircraft capability for the first time since 1961. The headquarters of 3rd Field Regiment RNZA was disbanded in 1990, with its two subordinate TF batteries remaining.

Twenty-first century
Today, the RNZA consists of a single regiment:

 * 16 Field Regiment, Royal New Zealand Artillery
 * Regimental Headquarters
 * HQ Battery
 * JOST Troop
 * 161 Battery (Close Support) – L119 Light Gun, L16A2 81mm mortar
 * Headquarters Troop
 * Able Troop
 * Baker Troop
 * Command Post Troop
 * 163 Battery (Close Support) – L119 Light Gun, L16A2 81mm mortar
 * Headquarters Troop
 * Easy Troop
 * Fox Troop
 * Command Post Troop

Members of the 16th Field Regiment formed part of the New Zealand Battalion deployed on peacekeeping operations in East Timor.

The School of Artillery is active.

Territorial units
In addition, there are a number of Territorial Force artillery units; these were formerly units of the RNZA, but were moved into the structure of the TF battalion groups on the restructuring of the army in the late 1990s:
 * 11(A) Battery (Auckland) (Close Support), 3rd Auckland (Countess of Ranfurly's Own) and Northland Battalion Group (Amalgamated 1990s)
 * 22(D) Battery (Wellington) (Air Defence), 7th Wellington (City of Wellington's Own) and Hawke's Bay Battalion Group (Disbanded 1990's)
 * 31(B) Battery (Dunedin) 4th Otago and Southland Battalion Group (Disbanded 1990s)
 * 32(E) Battery (Christchurch) (Observation Post), 2nd Canterbury, and Nelson-Marlborough and West Coast Battalion Group (Disbanded 1990s
 * 4 (G) Medium Battery (Hamilton) (Amalgamated 1990s)

RNZA Territorial-Reserve Batterys/Troops as of 2020:

 * 11/4 Battery RNZA (comes under 16 Field Regiment RNZA)
 * 22 Troop RNZA (Linton) (comes under 16 Field Regiment RNZA)

The Battle Honours of the above three Territorial Force artillery units are for South Africa, World War I and World War II.

Distinctions
A composite unit of the RNZA became the first specific New Zealand unit to mount the Queen's Guard at Buckingham Palace in 1964 (previously, the contingents sent to the Coronation had mounted the guard).

The South Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation 1st Class was presented to 161 Bty in 1977 for its service in the Vietnam War as part of the 1st Battalion Group, Royal Australian Regiment (see Non-U.S. recipients of U.S. gallantry awards).

In 1995 the unit received the Meritorious Unit Commendation (MUC) in recognition of its service with the United States 173rd Airborne Brigade during the Vietnam War.

In 2011 the Governor General of New Zealand, on behalf of HM Queen Elizabeth II, gave permission for 16 Field Regt RNZA to wear the South Korean Presidential Unit Citation, by all Officers and NCO's attached to the Regiment, however after their appoints finish with the Regiment the Citation is handed back to the Regiment.

In 2019 the Australian government awarded veterans of 161 Battery who had fought at the Battles of Coral and Balmoral the Australian Unit Citation for Gallantry for "extraordinary gallantry".

Uniform
The RNZA were distinguished by a blue and red puggaree around the traditional "Lemon Squeezer" hat of the New Zealand Army, until this headdress fell into abeyance in the late 1950s. It has subsequently been reintroduced for ceremonial use but the RNZA now wear the same red puggaree as most other corps and regiments. Artillery officers wore a dark blue jacket and trousers with red lapels and trouser stripes for mess dress but this has now been phased out in favour of a universal scarlet mess jacket worn by all branches of the Army.

Band
The Band of the Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery (abbreviated to Royal NZ Artillery Band) is an Auckland-based supporting musical unit for the Royal New Zealand Artillery. It is specifically based out of Panmure, a south-eastern suburb of Auckland and is affiliated with the 16th Field Regiment, RNZA. It is a volunteer band since being disestablished as an NZDF unit in 2012. However it remains supported by the Regiment through a formal agreement. As of 2021, the band is the oldest surviving military band in the country, being founded in 1864. The band performs at a range of events that include commemorations, ceremonies, concerts, Military Tattoos, Military Parades and medal presentation ceremonies.

Affiliations

 * 🇬🇧 – Royal Artillery
 * 🇨🇦 – Royal Canadian Artillery
 * 🇦🇺 – Royal Australian Artillery

Gallery
 File:NZ artillery 25 pounder Korea 1951 (AWM HOBJ2238).jpg|New Zealand gunners firing a 25-pounder in Korea. File:RNZA carry out a fire mission, Vietnam.jpg|New Zealand gunners in Vietnam operating an M2A2 Howitzer.

title: Royal Regiment of New Zealand Artillery


text:
Talk:IBM AIX

Unix transition guide
Anyone care to outline a introduction guide for persons already familiar with Unix? Links? Thanks, Gchriss 20:37, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

AIX 1.0 and SVR3
The article states that AIX 1.0 was based on SVR3, but according to UNIX System V the latter was released a year later. Qwertyus 22:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

AIX on IBM Mainframes
I changed the previous MVS/ESA section and replaced it with AIX on IBM Mainframes. AIX/370 and AIX/ESA information is very hard to come by because the operating system was not much of a success and didn't last long. I also removed the note about AIX/ESA being based off of OSF/1 because I could find no credible information saying such (and it seems unlikely). I found the introduction date on IBM's Year in Review website and based the release date off of Unix History (http://www.levenez.com/unix/). I also found some information on the MVS/ESA article. There are official IBM documents in BookManager format on AIX/370 available at this site (http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/aix.html). TimP 21:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

As someone who worked on AIX/ESA, I can confirm it was indeed a port of OSF/1. Why do you think it's unlikely? Also, the information in the AIX article that AIX/370 was rebranded as AIX/ESA is wrong. They were separate operating systems. Finally, while AIX/370 was restricted to running as a VM guest, AIX/ESA did not have this restriction and could be run natively. -Dave Marquardt, AIX/ESA developer from 1989 to 1993.

AIX/ESA did run natively on the mainframe and the kernel had little in common with AIX for the RS/6000. It was a port of OSF/1. I also was a developer of this OS from 1989 to about 1992. My team did the disk and tape support (which was ALL native). I have seen an AIX/ESA machine with a 1000 people logged on. Technically impressive, but didn't sell! Some said this was because MVS Open Edition was developed as a corporate "immune response" from the very large MVS development team. - Dick Johnson

AIX/370 was a port of the LOCUS clustering operating system from Locus Computing Corporation, which was a commercialization of an ARPA research project at UCLA led by Dr. Gerald J. Popek (of Popek and Goldberg virtualization requirements fame). You can see the book on Amazon.com -- ISBN 0262161028, "The LOCUS Distributed System Architecture", edited by Gerald J. Popek and Bruce J. Walker, MIT Press, 1985 (you may notice my name on Chapter 4). It was based on 4.1BSD and was not anywhere near the same branch of the UNIX family tree as IBM's AIX on the RT, for example. The same OS also ran on the IBM PS/2, as well as the VAX and a couple other Instruction Set Architectures (same source, different binaries of course). I think IBM called it Transparent Computing Facility (TCF), and I think it was also called Transparent Network Computing (TNC) at some point in time, I believe by Locus attempting to sell the technology to other buyers in addition to IBM. (It is a bit disappointing to note that the IBM370/AIX page does not seem to recognize this, and talks about the RS6000 version of AIX and the IBM370 verion as though they were the same thing; but then it seemed to me that IBM was pretty deliberate in using the "AIX" brand in a way that was consistent and made it look like one product.) The book referenced above was published during a time when the contract between Locus and IBM was still supposed to be secret, but Locus apparently got permission to credit IBM without making a direct statement, and that can be seen on pages xv (Preface) and xvii (Acknowledgments). I think it was an editing error that the example discussed on page 104 (first paragraph of section 6.5) was published talking about a "370" site -- I think all those examples were supposed to have been changed to "68K" instead (which LOCUS did run on). Amazon.com will let you see these -- I used the "search inside" feature to find "IBM" and "370". There are a few hints around: http://www-sop.inria.fr/parallel/DR:/lsf/man/tcsh.1.html (search for "TCF"); http://www.puffin.com/~lynn/99.html, http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#22, http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html (search for "locus") Dave Butterfield 23:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC) co-chief technical lead for support of AIX/370 and AIX/PS2 at Locus, February 1989 - May 1992.

I just looked around and found that Locus delivered AIX for both the 370 and the PS/2 to IBM for acceptance testing in October and November of 1986. It was delivered to IBM in Boeblingen, West Germany by Evelyn Walton, one of the founders of Locus. Dave Butterfield 00:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

---

I'm no expert on this, but I think this section should mention the current Unix subsystem on z/OS. If I'm right many of the current newer IBM mf products run in this userland. -- Eric Apse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.109.224 (talk) 23:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Only if z/OS UNIX Services are directly related to AIX, and I'm not sure they are. Letdorf (talk) 13:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC).

Probably a Silly-Mistake
Last line of the Text says: "If you are on a text based terminal, running the smit program will invoke the text-based version." Shouldn't it be: "If you are on a text based terminal, running the smit program will invoke the GUI-based version." Ignore the post if I am wrong, as I have no AIX experience. Just a curious reader and Linux/Unix enthusiast, who thought it is probably a mistake. Thanks. --202.63.114.107 09:33, 24 January 2006 (UTC) I just tested and running "smit" on a text based terminal does indeed bring up the text based version. I to make the hard call to the text based version the command is "smitty". 141.155.63.6 21:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC) I am pretty sure the smit command senses if you are running in GUI or text mode and will use the appropriate display.--Mrmouse 15:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

This is correct. If you invoke "smit" without any options, it will determine if the $DISPLAY variable is set; if so, it will invoke the GUI-based version; if not, it will invoke the CLI-based version. Invoking SMIT as "smitty" forces the "tty" (CLI-based) version to run. This is, of course, by design. --SolarisBigot 16:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

A Correction
Actually AIX stands for "Advanced Interactive eXcutive" if memory serves me well. I remember back in the version 1 days they used to print that phrase on the 8" floppies you used to build it, and that always stuck wtih me. 141.155.63.6 21:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what is meant by "AIX v3 was the first OS to introduce a journaling file system". Does this mean it was the first to natively support a journalled FS? Because Veritas_File_System was the first journaling FS.

 * AIX was the first to naitvely support a journalled FS. AIXv3 shipped in 1990 (and was working in-house years prior to that). When did Veritas start shipping thier product? linas 00:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the Veritas article states that it didn't ship until 1991, so it wasn't the "first", it was the "first commercial unbundled" FS, i.e. it ran on other unixes. linas (talk) 20:52, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

"but also beat the competition by a factor of 10 in floating-point performance."
does anyone else find the breathless enthusiasm for AIX and the RS/6000 a little POV? i mean, just a bit?

Flagged appropiately. --SolarisBigot 17:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Also in that mindset, the claim "not only outperformed all other machines in integer compute performance". I suspect that "all other machines" here, like "the competition" above, are categories of convenience -- they include only what machines they must in order to make the claims true, just as integer and floating-point performance are defined by whatever benchmarks make the claims true. As I recall, the RS/6000s really were speedy machines -- I had one on my desk -- but this is used-car-salesman hype at its deepest. 206.205.52.162 (talk) 19:26, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

 * I don't think it was POV at all; you can look up the numbers on the chipsets of the era, and compare them. Dinner table discussions were about competitors being driven out of business. The competitors here were SGI, HP and Sun, to a lesser degree Apollo, Intergraph and a few others I can't remember (E&S Evans & Sutherland ??). (although I guess Apollo had already gone down by then). They were competitors because the were selling Unix workstations at similar price-points: in the $10K to $100K range, with roughly similar capabilities for graphics, RAM, disk storage, etc.  What IBM had done with the floating point unit had never been done before: the snobbery of the time was that "Unix computing was all about integer performance", that this was the only thing that counted.  You could see this in magazines like Unix Review (?) (or was it Unix Today (??)) that more-or-less pooh-pooh'ed the importance of floating point.  This was bizarre, to say the least, it seemed to completely miss the point that much/most of the market was scientific computing, and that actual customers were running numeric codes on these machines!  So when IBM came out with a floating point pipeline (an FPU) that was wired into the integer pipeline, instead of being a co-processor, that was a "game changer", as they used to say. The fact that the integer unit was equal or faster than anyone else's helped deliver the launch.  Of course, it turned out the workstation game was a game of "leapfrog":  it wasn't long (typically 6-12 months) before someone else announced a "the fastest" machine, with some gamesmanship of comparing apples to oranges.  Not at all unlike the smart-phone market today. Please note: cell-phone chipsets are designed by many of the same engineers who worked on these machines back in the 1980's & 1990's: you can walk the Qualcomm hallways and bump into the same engineers who worked at IBM, SGI, etc. back in the day... in some ways, cell-phones really aren't all that different, just 1000 times smaller, cheaper, and faster. linas (talk) 20:40, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

 * The problem seems to be that, even if the RS/6000 machines took the lead among their peers from other vendors, that's not the claim that's being disputed — the article claims that the POWER machines “outperformed all other machines in integer compute performance”, where “all” would include multiprocessors and supercomputers. If the proper comparison is between machines with equal numbers of processors, comparable quantities of main memory, and similar list prices, then perhaps the overly-enthusiastic text would benefit from some of those qualifiers.   :)   206.205.52.162 (talk) 23:48, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

The HP snake, and later the DEC Alpha, did beat the RS6k on arithmetic performance provided all data was in the cache, some 256kb. The RS6k had at least twice the memory bandwidth of its early competitors. It did very well on large memory jobs, such as vectorized fluid dynamics code. The difference was the IBM direct mapped cache vs associative caches of its competitors. For example, circa 1992: IBM 550 did 18Mflops on triads, the Snake 712 did 6Mflops, and the Cray YMP was 289Mflops. Snakes and Alphas made nice personal workstations, while RS6ks were more likely to be found running a large batch job taking days of CPU time. Memory bandwidth stats can be found on the Stream Benchmark page at U. Virginia. It was the RS6k memory performance which prompted this project.220.245.41.207 (talk) 02:41, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect info about SMIT command log
smit.log contains the output and results from actions that are performed, but does not contain much that would be usable in writing scripts. smit.script contains all the commands that are generated to execute an action, and is where one would get the commands to write their own script. -- Kel Byers, AIX Test Engineer
 * I updated the article to reflect both files as you mentioned. --Unixguy 15:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Article name "IBM AIX (operating system)"
Why there is "(operating system)" in the article name? I think that there is not anything else called "IBM AIX". I am going to suggest renaming the article. --pabouk 07:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree that this is redundant, but I don't think it's the (operating system) part that should go, it's the "IBM" part. Coherent with: Tru64 UNIX, Solaris Operating System, Mac OS X, HP-UX, OS/2 and IRIX. All proprietary operating systems without the vendor name in the article. The odd man out is Microsoft Windows but that's all in order since MS couldn't register just "windows" as a trademark. -- Henriok 15:21, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree that the "IBM" part is redundant. I was not sure whether it has not been part of the name. I also asked User:Rwwww who renamed the article for the reasons for renaming but I am not sure whether he will answer because he has not contributed to Wikipedia since November. --pabouk 15:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

 * There ia a long response on my talk page. tooold 14:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC) (Rwwww)

 * I think that as long as AIX operating system redirects to the main page IBM AIX (operating system) then we are ok. A person would still arrive at the end page without knowing that IBM is part of the name. Here are all the current redirect pages:
 * IBM370/AIX
 * IBM-RT/AIX
 * AIX Operating System
 * Advanced IBM UNIX
 * Advanced Interactive eXecutive
 * AIX operating system
 * AIX (operating system)
 * IBM AIX
 * --Unixguy 17:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

SCO lawsuit
SCO has not claimed (in court) that IBM misappropriated code from sysV and put it in AIX (or anywhere else), but rather IBM took code that IBM wrote for other operating systems, and ported that code into AIX, and then later on ported that same code into linux. What SCO says to the media is sometimes different from what they say in court. 67.52.199.222 18:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Journaling
This assessment it is not true: AIXv3 innovated in several ways on the software side. It was the first operating system to introduce the idea of a journalling file system, JFS, which allowed for fast boot times by avoiding the need to fsck the disks on every reboot —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.14.109.238 (talk) 09:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I have absolutely no idea what's true. We cannot replace something that might not be true with something else that might not be true either. At least I need some evidence before I change anything. Henriok 09:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I added the citation for the JFS claim. The source is primary (IBM) but at least the assertion is documented. ChrisLS120 (talk) 05:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I stated at v3. The partitioning system was LVM. Wasn't AIX the first to use LVs exclusively? Volumes could be expanded on the fly, but not shrunk. It also used fixed-size loop or cyclic files to store auditing data.220.245.41.207 (talk) 02:47, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation?
How is AIX pronounced? I think the article should tell us: is it a single syllable "AYKS", or is it two syllables like "AY-iks"? The latter I thought was the case, to identify it as part of what we now call the *nix family of operating system - albeit without the "n" in this case. Are there any sources that say one way or the other? Is it still lodged in the memories of those who worked with it? --Nigelj 22:13, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "Aye-Eye-Ecks" is the way I've heard from representatives from IBM. Listen to IBM's developerWorks podcast to hear for yourself. -- Henriok 14:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Although it's an acronym, the proper name is to say the letters A-I-X aloud. /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 22:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Never heard it pronounced any other way, not even when joking around. linas (talk) 20:57, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never heard it pronounced as "A-I-X" I've only ever heard it pronounced "aches," I know IBM wants people to spell it out but it also came from their "pressed white shirts" cultural period. I've often heard sysadmins say something like, "You're not running aches are you?" Never heard anybody spell it out, or say "aiks" or "ay-iks". Also, the citation for the current pronunciation is a blog, one that also says that SCO is pronounced "ASS-holes NOT skoh" so this still needs fixing in 2019 71.63.160.210 (talk) 16:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Aix logo.gif
Image:Aix logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 22:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

AIX on Bull Express5800
I'm not entirely convinced by the cited website mentioning an IA-32 port of AIX 5L for the Bull (NEC) Express5800. Does anyone have any other references for the existence of this? Letdorf 13:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC).
 * Bull sells rebranded IBM pSeries with AIX and is also involved in the development of AIX (on POWER) but that's the only link I'm aware of, so the claim of an IA32-port of AIX done by Bull is IMHO highly doubtable. --Kvedulv 14:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Removed per talk. /Blaxthos 18:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Article name
Anyone please explain this to me: why the name of the article says "IBM AIX"? Looking at similar OS articles, such as IRIX and HP-UX, the developer company isn't mentioned in the title, so should not it be here. Or, otherwise, those articles aforementioned should be renamed to "SGI IRIX" and "HP HP-UX" (yes, double "HP" here, since "HP-UX" is itself a name/trademark) to meet the common sense consistency requirements. — 213.141.154.11 (talk) 18:11, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * IBM call it "IBM AIX" as per this page and many other sources. Not in prose but in headlines. As should we.-- Henriok (talk) 08:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

PowerPC G4?
Is it possible to run any version of AIX on PowerPC G4? — 213.141.154.11 (talk) 18:22, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

NO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.26.30.5 (talk) 21:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض ط ظ ع غ ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.14.160.18 (talk) 06:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Multics family
I propose that we re-classify this article under 'OS family: Multics' in the info box, for the reason that Unix is based on Multics. MFNickster (talk) 03:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Please keep the discussion in the one place. It started in Talk:Mac OS X. AlistairMcMillan (talk) 18:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Screenshot
I added a screenshot of an AIX 5.3 login, but it was speedy deleted as a violation of IBM's copyright.

Thparkth (talk) 23:25, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Added it back now

Thparkth (talk) 16:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

The Coherent file system
Uh, i can't seem to find a suitable spot to mention the early Coherent filesystem ; perhaps someone else could ? A few sources : --Jerome Potts (talk) 11:33, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * file:///usr/src/linux/Documentation/filesystems/sysv-fs.txt (if you're on a Linux system)
 * Unfortunately hardly anything in http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Filesystems-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.26, except that it's classified as a System V FS derivative (in agreement with the previous ref)

 * What's the connection between Coherent (operating system) and AIX? Letdorf (talk) 13:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC).

 * Aha, thanks, i didn't know of that OS. To answer your question, here is, from the 1st source i mentioned :

These filesystems are rather similar. Here is a comparison with Minix FS: * Linux fdisk reports on partitions - Minix FS    0x81 Linux/Minix - Xenix FS    ?? - SystemV FS  ?? - Coherent FS 0x08 AIX bootable
 * This is very little indeed. So perhaps i should rephrase my original question : which file system was originally on AIX, prior to JFS1 ? and come to think of it, is JFS (2?) the only file system you get on AIX, besides the networking FSes ? So that means that everything is journalled ? In which case, isn't that overkill ? Etc. --Jerome Potts (talk) 02:05, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

 * That's a slightly confusing list. What I think it is saying is that, on PCs, AIX (presumably AIX PS/2) and Coherent used the same partition type code in the BIOS MBR for their filesystem partitions (although this web page says the code was 0x09, not 0x08). That is probably coincidence and I doubt the two systems have anything else in common. As for the native AIX filesystem before JFS1, I'm not entirely sure what AIX/RT, AIX PS/2 or AIX/370 used, but it seems AIX/6000 always had JFS - AFAIK the first (customer) release of AIX/6000 was v3.1. Letdorf (talk) 13:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC).

 * Yes, what Letdorf says. The earlier AIX 2.1 2.2 was layered on top of a virtual machine, and the whole disk/block subsystem was funky.linas (talk) 21:02, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

IBM AIX → — as its a shorter name that is still descriptive, and the OS doesn't generally appear to be referred to as IBM AIX but instead is generally known as just AIX. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:36, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Weak Support probably the most likely topic for the term "AIX". 76.66.195.196 (talk) 04:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Support – An alternative could be "AIX (operating system)" as per Solaris (operating system) -- Henriok (talk) 07:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Strong Oppose - For one, most IBM articles seem to be named "IBM foo" (example: IBM DB2, IBM System/360, et cetera ad infinitum); for two, AIX already has a substantial disambiguation page, for which there are 15+ entries -- this move will only increase ambiguity.  //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 09:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose - as has been pointed out, there are other AIXs in the world, and I prefer "IBM AIX" to "AIX (operating system)". Letdorf (talk) 11:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
 * Comment AIX already redirects to this article - so this article is already the primary usage of the term. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think "primary use" invalidates the ambiguity such a move would introduce. There's a significant difference between being immediately redirected to an unambiguously titled article, and moving the "primary" article to the ambiguous "AIX" -- the two concepts aren't interchangeable.  //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 03:05, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You could have a pretty clear hatnote instead "this article is about IBM's operating system" or something. Maybe we have to agree to disagree though. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:32, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * PS There are only 6 terms on that disambiguation page which refer to AIX rather than Aix which is different. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * 6 or 12, it's still a substantial number. Regardless, I just don't see any utility to your suggested move.  Agree to disagree.  :)  //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 12:22, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Is AIX still being developed?
That latest stable release is almost 3 years old, which is a long time in computer language terms. Is there expected to be another major release? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.253.240 (talk) 16:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, AIX is a stable platform. They are betatesting 7.1 as we speak. Read about it here: http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/software/aix/v71/index.html -- Henriok (talk) 22:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

SCO vs IBM in the lead
Does the SCO vs IBM really belong in the lead? I just read the article for the first time and, while interesting, I can't see that SCO vs IBM is really an important part of an article on AIX that would belong in the lead. Also, much of the material about the court case only appears in the lead, whereas the lead should summarise the article. Shall I move it? Alex Harvey (talk) 05:02, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

 * Yes, not really lead-worthy. Letdorf (talk) 13:22, 2 May 2011 (UTC).
 * I concur. -- Henriok (talk) 16:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Korn shell
AIX uses the Korn shell as default, which is probably special enough to mention here. Does anyone know since when this is the case? The Korn shell wasn't around in 1986. FuFoFuEd (talk) 12:06, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Since AIX 4 apparently. FuFoFuEd (talk) 12:28, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

IBM AIX PS/2
I worked in the Danbury,CT, lab where AIX PS/2 was developed, and can offer some insight and possibly corrections to other sections here, and perhaps the Wiki itself. My initial role was as a member of architecture team where I was a *nix newbie but owned the Final Programming Functional Specification (FPFS). I was responsible for integrating the architecture team members' content, distributing the FPFS across the business and securing concurrence. I got that job because my previous project (VideoText/370) had been cancelled, I lived nearby (no relocation expense) and I knew ISIL (BookMaster).

In a nutshell, AIX PS/2 was to integrate SVID(TM) and BSD 4.3(TM), and add things like DBCS, X-Windows, a "DOS Compatibility box" (from Locus), etc. It was intended from the beginning to become the source base for implementations of AIX planned for the RS/6000 and System 370, so those organizations were stakeholders from the FPFS phase through General Availability (GA). Our GA was pegged to the PS/2 GA to ensure there was an "IBM" (i.e., non-Microsoft) OS available for that platform from day 1. Interestingly, our device drivers were based on work from a Boca lab that had taken over driver development for OS/2 when MS said "seeya!".

Subsequently I lead the comnmand port team (mostly contractors), mainly in normalizing interfaces, big- and little-endian issues and DBCS support. After that I led the LPP test team, and once we hit SVT I prepared materials for and ran the Release Manager's daily "must-fix" meeting, where stakeholders from Austin (RS/6000), Kingston (370), Palo Alto (X-windows), Santa Monica (Locus) and others regularly participated.

So much for bona fides.

My issue is with the characterization of Locus as the "developer" of AIX PS/2, and possibly, AIX/370. I can only speculate on the latter, but as for AIX PS/2 they contributed only the "DOS Compatibility box" which allowed DOS applications to run on a PS/2 under AIX. This was a technology they marketed separately for other *nix variants, and it worked pretty well - I spent a month there during functional test (all the servers were named after LOTR dragons). If I remember correctly, they released a new version shortly after AIX PS/2's release that contained a number of ennhancements absent from the version IBM had licensed. If anyone that was at Locus at the time can comment I'd be interested to hear what they have to say, but these are my recollections.

As for AIX/370, I know that Mike Schmidt (lead AIX PS/2 architect) went to work on that project in Kingston, and AFAIK the code base was our frozen code from AIX PS/2 R1. It is entirely possible that Locus contributed clustering support, but I have no direct knowledge of that.

We made GA, by the way, though the efforts of a lot of great people, with whom I've unfortunately lost contact - people like Mike, Tery McAuliffe, John Spannaus and Bill Jones, who I follwed to a new IBM gig in Tampa (and later another gig with a different comany; he has since retired). And especially my LPP team go-to, Lisa Wright, whose mottos were "Do it NOW" and "That's not good enough" (exclamation points would be redundant). May every team have a Lisa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.168.124.182 (talk) 08:59, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Hi, thanks for your comments. I think the mention of Locus in the article, in relation to AIX PS/2 and AIX/370, was based on the comments above by Dave Butterfield. If you can find some reliable sources that shed more light on the origins of AIX PS/2 or AIX/370 and could be cited in the article, that would be great. Regards, Letdorf (talk) 19:41, 6 February 2012 (UTC).

Speaking as the kernel development manager for AIX PS/2, I can assure you that Locus did the lions' share of the initial kernel development work. My recollection was that AIX started out in Danburry with the "IBM Instruments Computer", but when they wanted a PS/2 port they asked Locus to do it. It was Chimerical port of Locus' 286 Transparent Distributed Computing Unix, and the AIX High Function Terminal, to which Merge (led by Dave Butterfield) was added. The port was, in my mind star-crossed. IBM (with Mike Schmidt as lead architect) wanted a team with serious Unix kernel chops to do a straight SV 386 port, but with an homage to the IBM Instruments Computer port. Locus wanted a vehical for getting their heterogenous distributed operating system into the market. These three conflicting goals led to much architectural and managerial strife, and I don't believe anyone really got what they wanted. My role in AIX/370 was only peripheral (I was the architect and kernel lead for VM/IX, had long struggled with AIX/370's predecessor, and strongly argued the necessity of the new port) so I will not comment on that port. If you have more specific questions, I still know most of the Locus/Interactive principals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkKampe (talk • contribs) 14:52, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

One question about the kernel: it seems there was a lot of work to make AIX into microkernel-based Workplace OS but that was scrapped in 1995. AIX first release was in 1986, before that work began, if I understood correctly. So question is, was there ever microkernel-based AIX released and is there reference for it somewhere? Ipr1 (talk) 00:41, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Adding to previous, it seems AIX existed already before OSF/1 and was used as a base for OSF/1 Open Software Foundation, which is opposite to some claims.. Ipr1 (talk) 00:45, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Picture
what, in your opinion, is the added value of the image

File:IBM AIX 53.PNG

given that we already have a picture of a login prompt for an older AIX, above? (Note that the other one uses green text, which makes it a bit more of an eyecatcher; I selected which one to remove on purely aesthetic grounds.) Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 17:22, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There are actually four pictures showing the CLI in AIX, which is prudent when describing a UNIX operating system largely driven bli CLIs. Minute differences between versions are interesting and I'd actually would like to have more, showing more versions and platforms. Removing pictures that actually convey information based on aesthetics are not a valid reasen in my opinion. If you want to remove pictures, you should probably remove some (all?) of the three pictures showing hardware. This is an article about software, so removing images describing the software while keeping images that show something else is.. not the priorities I'd make. If it'd be up to me though, I'd keep all pictures and add more. Henriok (talk) 11:28, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

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Relationship between various pre-AIX mainframe UNIXes?
The "IBM mainframes" section currently says:

 * AIX/370 was IBM's fourth attempt to offer Unix-like functionality for their mainframe line, specifically the System/370 (the prior versions were a TSS/370-based Unix system developed jointly with AT&T c.1980,, VM/IX a VM/370-based system developed jointly with Interactive Systems Corporation c.1984), and IX/370 a VM/370-based version of TSS/370 which upgraded to be be compatible with Unix System V).

Is IX/370 at all connected with the TSS/370-based system developed jointly with AT&T?

The article says earlier that

 * It took until 1985 for IBM to offer its own Unix on the S/370 platform, IX/370, which was developed by Interactive Systems Corporation and intended by IBM to compete with Amdahl UTS.

So is IX/370 at all connected with VM/IX, if both were developed by ISC? Guy Harris (talk) 02:10, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

AIX subsystem of OS/400
There is no native implementation of AIX on the AS/400, but there is an AIX subsystem that runs under OS/400. Should the article list AS/400 or OS/400 as a platform running AIX? --Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:31, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

 * From the early 2000s onwards, it was possible to run AIX LPARs on iSeries hardware. Perhaps referring to it as "AS/400" hardware is misleading, but the iSeries and System i were essentially just a rebranding for later editions of AS/400 hardware. This was distinct from PASE, the AIX subsystem you are referring to. Vt320 (talk) 20:21, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes, but I was specically asking whether, because of PASE, OS/3\400 on AS/400 should be listed as a platform for AIX. That was available before IBM switched to the POWER platform. --Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 01:58, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

AIX on S/370
I have located some but not all of the AIX/370 and AIX/ESA announcement letters. Should I add the releases that I now of to the S/370 stub section, or only the releases for which I have dates? Should the dates be announcement or general availability? --Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:38, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:IBM AIX


text:
In the Seven Woods

In the Seven Woods: Being Poems Chiefly of the Irish Heroic Age is a volume of poems by W. B. Yeats, published in 1903 by Elizabeth Yeats's Dun Emer Press, the first edited by this publishing house.

Dun Emer published two editions of the book in 1903. The more expensive collection was published on Dutch and Irish paper and is bound with a vellum cover with Irish linen ties (see image).

This is the first book of Yeats's "middle period," in which he eschewed his previous Romantic ideals and preference for pre-Raphaelite imagery, in favor of a more spare style and an anti-romantic poetic stance similar to that of Walter Savage Landor. The poem "Adam's Curse", however, continues to reflect the old ideals. This is also the most popular and frequently anthologized of the poems from this volume.

The volume includes the play "On Baile's Strand: A Play".

"In The Seven Woods"
This is the opening poem of the book:

 * I have heard the pigeons of the Seven Woods
 * Make their faint thunder, and the garden bees
 * Hum in the lime-tree flowers; and put away
 * The unavailing outcries and the old bitterness
 * That empty the heart. I have forgot awhile
 * Tara uprooted, and new commonness
 * Upon the throne and crying about the streets
 * And hanging its paper flowers from post to post,
 * Because it is alone of all things happy.
 * I am contented, for I know that Quiet
 * Wanders laughing and eating her wild heart
 * Among pigeons and bees, while that Great Archer,
 * Who but awaits His hour to shoot, still hangs
 * A cloudy quiver over Pairc-na-lee.

 * August, 1902.

Index

 * Title Page
 * "In the Seven Woods"
 * "The Old Age of Queen Maeve"
 * "Baile and Ailinn"
 * "The Arrow"
 * "The Folly of Being Comforted"
 * "The Withering of the Boughs"
 * "Adam's Curse"
 * "The Song of Red Hanrahan"
 * "The Old Men Admiring Themselves in the Water"
 * "Under the Moon"
 * "The Players Ask for a Blessing in the Psalteries and Themselves"
 * "The Rider From the North"
 * Comment by Yeats
 * "On Baile's Strand: A Play"
 * Advertisements (in the cheaper version)

The collection was reprinted in 1906 in "Poems, 1899-1905" with two additions. "Old Memory" and "Never Give all the Heart" appear directly after "The Folly of being Comforted".

Comment by W. B. Yeats
''I made some of these poems walking about among the Seven Woods, before the big wind of nineteen hundred and three blew down so many trees, & troubled the wild creatures, & changed the look of things; and I thought out there a good part of the play which follows. The first shape of it came to me in a dream, but it changed much in the making, foreshadowing, it may be, a change that may bring a less dream-burdened will into my verses. I never re-wrote anything so many times; for at first I could not make these wills that stream into mere life poetical. But now I hope to do easily much more of the kind, and that our new Irish players will find the buskin and the sock''.

Colophon
Here ends In the Seven Woods, written by William Butler Yeats, printed, upon paper made in Ireland, and published by Elizabeth Corbet Yeats at the Dun Emer Press, in the house of Evelyn Gleeson at Dundrum in the county of Dublin, Ireland, finished the sixteenth day of July in the year of the big wind 1903.

title: In the Seven Woods


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allen Gore

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.

The result of the debate was delete. dbenbenn | talk 14:42, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Allen Gore
The grandfather of Al Gore. I nominate it for deletion not because I personally think it should be deleted—although I lean in that direction—but because I think that it should be looked at as a case and would be useful as a precedent for similar articles. Everyking 13:56, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * No vote, but isn't 8 hours from creation to VFD notice a little fast? --Calton 15:04, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Uh, no, it's not. Lots of articles get VfD'd within minutes. Everyking 15:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Uh, yes it is. Obvious nonsense, obvious vanity, and borderline/actual libel; those rightly -- or should rightly -- be listed ASAP, to discourage trolls. But a stub, its virtual ink hardly dry on the virtual page? Practically, the creator should have made some case from the get-go for notability, but to swoop in and slap a VFD tag on something ambiguous without allowing even minimal time for expansion, it seems to me, discourages new editors -- a general violation of don't bite the newcomers. Still no vote, BTW.--Calton 02:49, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a genealogy database, and, to quote Votes for deletion/Alberta Williams King: "Most notable people don't deserve separate articles on close family members unless they are notable in their own right". Albert Gore, Sr. establishes notability in the person's own right. Allen Gore does not. And you just know that someone is eventually going to redlink "Claiborn Charles Gore" and "Elizabeth Robinson", causing the inappropriate genealogy database to grow yet further.  Delete and remove the dangling hyperlinks from Albert Gore, Sr.. Uncle G 15:13, 2005 Feb 11 (UTC)
 * Someone already did link them, actually, before I removed the links. One thing I think about, though, is the question of whether deleting such an article stunts Wikipedia's natural growth. If different people are indicating an interest in starting these articles, is that in itself a de facto indicator of notability? I don't know. I think that for exceptionally famous people, arguably including Al Gore, close relatives within one generation are probably notable enough by association to warrant inclusion. But within two generations? I don't know. Seems like we'd have to draw the line somewhere. Everyking 15:19, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable. Martg76 16:39, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Being a realtive of a notable person does not automaticaly make one notable. And as for Everyking's idea that the creation of the article indicates notability, well, if that's true we might as well shut down VfD and give vanity and vandals run of the place. -R. fiend 18:46, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Which is a massive oversimplification of what I said. I did nominate the article for deletion, after all. Everyking 19:35, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Everyking did say "If different people are indicating an interest in starting these articles", which is a point that is addressed in the deletion policy (and which is distinct from "if several related people keep re-creating the same article" and "if someone out there is interested enough to start the article".) However, does anything indicate that there was more than one person who thought Allen Gore needed an article? -- Antaeus Feldspar 20:28, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I think an interest in creating articles like this is more of an indication of the editor's obsession with completism than an indication of the subject's notability. -Satori 21:53, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. He might not be notable, but the information is verifiable and would likely be of interest to readers. - SimonP 22:07, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, being a grandfather of someone notable does not make the grandfather automatically notable. The article doesn't mention any achievements by Allen Gore. We've been through this before on the MLK family and relatives (voted Delete). My vote stays the same on these. Megan1967 23:13, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete.Al Gore's father was as U.S. Senator and therefore notable, but from the article, it doesn't look like Grandpa Gore was notable except as the grandfather and father of prominent politicians, and I don't think that is enough.  I'd revise my vote if more information is developed during the next few days.   --BM 00:49, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Barring demonstration of notability in his own right, merge and redirect to Albert Gore, Sr.. I wouldn't be surprised if he is more notable than this suggests: quite a distinguished family. -- Jmabel | Talk 00:53, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * A Google search turns up very little, all based on his being the grandfather of Al Gore. As best I can tell, he was just an ordinary guy. Everyking 01:20, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * From What Wikipedia is not - Genealogical or biographical entries, or phonebook entries. Biography articles should only be for people with some sort of notoriety or achievement. Delete Average Earthman 02:01, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to Al Gore and Delete I don't see a reason for a redirect as the person is not notable in his own right. Courtland 03:58, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)
 * Merging content is already a reason to redirect. You should give a reason 'not' to redirect. Kappa 08:41, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't we need to take "merge" too literally. On a real merge, you have to worry about the history, for GFDL purposes.  But when what is being merged is one sentence, keeping the history isn't much of an issue.  In the process of working it into the other article, the sentence probably gets transformed a bit, anyway.  In those cases, "Merge" is more "Delete, and work the content in somewhere else".   --BM 13:17, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. According to this Washington Post article, Allen Gore was a humble farmer from Possum Hollow Tennessee. Albert Gore Sr was the first member of the family to go to college. Unfortunately, Allen Gore is not notable other than the father of Albert Gore Sr. and the grandfather of Albert Gore Jr. Capitalistroadster 09:21, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Kudos to Everyking for proposing this as a test case and doing so in a very professional manner. I also can find no evidence that he was notable in his own right.  Delete with a soft recommendation to then redirect to Albert Gore, Sr. in order to discourage recreation of the article. Rossami (talk) 23:54, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bergensstudentenes Idrettslag

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete -- AllyUnion (talk) 09:33, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Bergensstudentenes Idrettslag and Bergenstudentenes Idrettslag
Not very notable. It is a sports club for the students at Bergen university in Norway. It should perhaps be transwikied to .no due to all information on the referenced site is in Norwegian. Inter 13:57, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete, maybe merge into University of Bergen or place in the Norwegian wiki. Virtually pointless to have such a stub in english wiki since it refers to a norwegian university club.  Also, it is basically an advertisement.
 * Delete, not notable. Megan1967 23:14, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into University of Bergen and Delete : it is very unlikely that a visitor to en.wikipedia would conduct a search that would hit these terms and justify a redirect. Courtland 04:04, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)
 * Delete, do not merge or redirect. Wile E. Heresiarch 07:47, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Template talk:PreEuroCurrencies

British pound or Pound sterling ?
In the template PreEuroCurrencies : In the template Currencies of Europe As for me, British Pound is beter, because the name of the country is in teh name of the currency. Marc. --Flafla89 14:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Other EU British pound
 * Western Guernsey... Pound sterling

Joining the Euro
All countries in the EU must at some point join the Euro, except the UK. The UK has a special opt-out agreement. Sweden and Denmark don't, and therefore must join sometime - or renegotiate some EU treaties. Any countries which join the EU in the future must change to the euro eventually. Seabhcán 13:57, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * My understanding was that the UK and Denmark both have an opt-out. Sweden does not, but is choosing not to join.  I'm not sure there's a great difference between saying they will join 'at some point', or saying they may join in the future.  Is there any treaty which puts any kind of date on when they would have to join?  Surely they couldn't be compelled to join if it's been rejected in a referendum? Worldtraveller 14:24, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * some stuff about this here

 * Sweden is indeed the only country without an official opt-out. They're not fulfilling the Maastricht criteria on purpose, namely by refusing to join the ERM II, but technically, they have to join the Euro once they fulfill the criteria. None of the new member states have opt-outs. The only countries to have opt-outs are the UK and Denmark; the UK initially asked for this opt-out, while Denmark re-negotiated the Maastricht treaty to obtain four opt-outs (one of them the Euro) after the original Maastricht treaty was rejected in a referendum. Denmark's government have stated their intent to call a referendum on abolishing the opt-outs some time 2005 or 2006, and it is fairly likely to succeed. All this doesn't change anything about the template, though; Denmark is a member of the ERM II, and Sweden technically will have to join the Euro. (And no, they can't be compelled to join the ERM II, to answer your query.) If you've got further questions, ask. Nightstallion 14:48, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for that info. But does this not effectively mean that Sweden can avoid ever joining the Euro by simply not joining ERM II?  If they have a kind of de facto opt-out in this way, then shouldn't they be put in the 'might join in future' camp?  I imagine they would never join unless it was endorsed by referendum, and I do not think they will hold another referendum for several years yet, so unlike the countries in ERM II which are on some kind of reasonably defined path to Euro-hood, it's still up to Sweden whether or not they ever join.  Is that not so?  Worldtraveller 15:04, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, that mainly depends on whether we want to group them by legal obligation or by de facto proceedings. Maybe we should rename the "will join" category to "obliged to join"? Although that may sound a bit negative... Nightstallion 15:19, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * It just seems to me that Sweden's 'obligation' to join is effectively meaningless, if they could in reality stay out forever if they wanted to. So it would make more sense to me to put them in the 'may join in the future' category. Worldtraveller 15:57, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Problem is, that applies for all states not yet a member of the Eurozone. They do not have to join the ERM II, no matter what. So putting Sweden into the may join instead of the will join category does not seem absolutely NPOV to me... Maybe it's just me. Nightstallion 16:08, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, I see that point. But certainly Sweden is much less likely to join the Eurozone in the next 5 years than others in their category.  The new EU countries are all, I believe, actively working towards adopting the Euro, while Sweden is not.  I don't know, maybe it would be best to just have a section for currencies which may join in future, and put all the ones currently in 'will join' in 'may join'? Worldtraveller 16:38, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * How about differentiating between "seeks to join" and "may join"? Nightstallion 17:19, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * That could seem reasonable. I note, though, that the Euro article lists expected dates for joining the Euro for all the countries in 'will join', but says that the UK and Sweden have no plans to join.  So, I still don't really see any POV problem with just moving Sweden to the 'may join in future' category.  Either way, I definitely don't think Sweden should be in the 'will join' category. Worldtraveller 17:17, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Alright. I moved the Swedish crown down, alphabetized all categories by the country's adjective, and bolded the strokes between current members, non-members set for accession and countries in membership negotations. Any other suggestions? Nightstallion 21:58, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Currencies

 * I'm not sure why WorldCurrencies template was included here, but it was putting this page into categories, so I nowiki'ed it. Ingrid 22:55, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Gibraltar pound
Is there a reason why Gibraltar pound is here? --Chochopk 01:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes – Gibraltar is part of the European Union, and would introduce the euro the same way the UK would. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 09:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Guernsey, Jersey, and Isle of Man are not? --Chochopk 19:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, they are not; in fact, they are not even part of the United Kingdom, technically speaking. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 13:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you verify or list the source of your statement? -- S iva1979 Talk to me  01:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Take a good, long look at our fine article crown dependency; the UK's head of state just also happens to be the head of state of Gy, Jy and the IoM at the same time. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 01:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

title: Template talk:PreEuroCurrencies


text:
Talk:Calling ID

This page was voted on for deletion at Votes for deletion/Calling ID. The consensus was to redirect it. dbenbenn | talk 21:46, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Calling ID


text: Talk:National Women's Basketball League

title: Talk:National Women's Basketball League


text: User talk:204.108.193.170

title: User talk:204.108.193.170


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Turk/Archive 1

The Turk
This is a most interesting article that touches such luminaries as Napoleon, Benjamin Franklin, Charles Babbage, and Edgar Allan Poe in a plot that hoaxed the world! --Flex 14:01, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Object. Having actually read one of the referenced books, I can say that this article gives a decent overview, but could go into detail on several issues - it is not comprehensive, one of the main requirements for a featured article. For example, there are many descriptions of how a typical session with the Turk went; this needs to be here. Other objections include the strange ending in parentheses (also suggesting there is more to be said) and the match details, which seems unneccesary. The pictures section should also be removed, and the pictures properly included. Jeronimo 22:21, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Object. I'm afraid, just from memory, and not having read one of the referenced books, I recall there was a lot more to be said about the Turk. So I concur with Jeronimo. The Turk is certainly an interesting subject, and this is a good start, but it's not there yet. In addition to what Jeronimo said, a picci of the final board, or a board just before the final moves, in the Napoleon game would help too, jguk 00:54, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:DC++

NPOV concerns
The article's wording is too heavily in praise of the software.--24.114.252.183 14:00, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Agreed. This sounds more like a plug for the software rather than a neutral description or comparison. 69.227.23.179 15:53, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Have you ever considered the notion that maybe DC++ is all-around better than Direct Connect? 24.177.11.130 01:25, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I have rewritten this article somewhat, do you think the NPOV dispute tag can be removed now? Solver 16:51, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think so, no. Your changes were definitely an improvement, but there is still a ways to go. As I see it, there are two major problems vis-à-vis NPOV: things given as facts that may or may not be factual, but that aren't verifiable either way (e.g., the assertion that most people connect to DC networks using DC++), and things given as facts that are out-and-out opinions (e.g., the characterization of various features of DC++ as advantages over NMDC). Ruakh 03:36, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * The assertion that most connect using DC++ is verifiable. When I connect to a DC hub, I can see what client is used by every other user. A quick look through the user list reveals that differnet versions of DC++ by far make up the majority. I couldn't find any statistics online to link to, though, but I wanted to include such a link in the article. Solver 22:15, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * You can verify that most users on a given hub use DC++, but I don't see how you could verify it Direct-Connect-wide. After all, this is a prime example of selection bias: since people find out about a given hub from other people (likely their friends), and since people find out about a given client from other people (likely their friends), I'd assume that people on the same hub are more likely to use the same client than people on different hubs. Ruakh 04:19, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Your selection bias does not hold true in this case. As an hublist (dc.selwerd.nl/hublist[.xml].bz2) admin I have visited countless hubs while assessing the hublist pinger (a bot that scans the hubs for user count and share size) performance, and can confirm that the _vast_ majority uses DC++ or a derived version. As a hub owner, I have spoken to several other owners and seen the state of their hub. And as a Direct Connect veteran I can confirm that historically Neo Modus Direct Connect usage dropped dramatically around the introduction of DC++ version 0.181. Yes, it is possible to modify the pinger bot to get fairly accurate client usage statistics, but this is not at all necessary. Fetch a hublist, and go join a random couple of hubs. You _will_ find an overwhelming percentage of DC++ and derived clients. (The "friends" argument holds only partially true as well, the hub list system allows users that become a bit familiar with the software to join any random hub on the list, spreading the population drastically.) Sedulus 12:55, 2005 Mar 28 (UTC)

 * Regarding out-and-out opinions: "Many users feel that DC++'s interface is easier to use. Differences from NMDC include: (..three points..)" This can be scrapped yes. After a long period of silence from Jon Hess (NMDC) he did update his client. I have seen it once (I don't like to install software that has ads/adware), and his version 2 is able to connect to multiple hubs and I assume able to resume files from a different user. I can't even confirm that it still has ads/adware (the old version 1 most certainly did though). So, I'll remove that and will wait for others to do a comparison against current NMDC. Will this un-NPOV-dispute it? Sedulus 13:04, 2005 Mar 28 (UTC)

 * I've removed the NPOV tag, read through the article and I think it's neutral now. If anyone disputes this feel free to put the tag back, but state the reasons why, because I've addressed all the NPOV issues described here. Splintax 11:48, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)

 * It looks much more neutral now, thanks. Now all it needs is a good copy-edit. :-) Ruakh 17:23, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How is this link: Commercial Managed DC Hub Hosting Provider related to DC++? Removing it. Gustavb 19:49, 2005 Jun 26 (UTC)

From the linked faq at the end of the article:

"The Neo-Modus Direct Connect website was sold and is no longer is operational. While the NMDC client still works, you won't find anyone using it anymore. The DC++ client (and its mods) are now the de facto standard for the Direct Connect protocol."

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/6511

Be Bold In Edits (talk) 08:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

SababaDC
I removed the addition of SababaDC for two reasons. Firstly, the list of mods is becoming a bit long. It already takes up a hefty chunk of the page. Secondly, there were just too many things listed for it. It looked a bit ridiculous. In that vein, I'm tempted to chop out some of the bullets from StrongDC as well ... --TheParanoidOne 23:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The guy who wrote SababaDC constantly spams his programs in forums, so I don't doubt for a minute that he has added all those "features" to his list. Also from the looks of how SabbaDC is worded I believe this is a form of self advertising. I removed most of the so called features... 24.174.96.139 (talk) 05:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

This is the guy advertising http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/84.108.189.199

Hubs
Why are hubs advantageous? Why can't the entire userbase of dc++ be a single hub, so that one can locate just about any file? It would be so much stronger if everybody on the network where connected, no? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.80.214.158 (talk) 14:59, August 30, 2006.

 * The design of the protocol does not lend itself to that. It could be argued that one of the Direct Connect's network advantages is being decentralized, allowing users to form their own communities based on whatever criteria they're comfortable with.  Your point about the lack of a global search is one I've seen before, and it has merit from an end user point of view.  --GargoyleMT 18:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Try to search with at least 10'000 users, and you will be overwhelmed with results, if your search-string is popular enough. You'll see the needed file with very first results, but the line would be immediately scrolled out of the screen (by sorting) as more and more results arrive. You just won't be able to select the file and start downloading until you finish to receive all those answers, which could take very long. Just image what if web search engines listed every site in a couple of million findings on a single page — that would be disastrous. :) 217.172.21.161 (talk) 08:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Supported hub address URLs
The NMDC part of the article is incorrect. DC++ support even more specific information than that. IIRC, file names and users are supported as well. Anyway, it's an easy check in the source. My point is, does the NMDC protocol support everything that DC++ does, or does NMDC just support dchub://hub:port (as this info would be nice to know in the NMDC article)? I don't have a copy of the NMDC client so I can't check with that (and most results on Google seem to be malware). --Ullner 13:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
I don't know if its just me not knowing terms but it seems there was vandalism added at the same time the information itself was added in the greylink section, there are multiple mentions of hubs having balls and drugs. --ryan_the_leach (talk) 15:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It was translated with google translate from russian, since the features are all in russian, the client is 100% in english —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.121.239.93 (talk) 22:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:DC++


text: User talk:67.167.117.10

title: User talk:67.167.117.10


text:
River Tarrant

The River Tarrant is a 12 km long tributary of the River Stour in Dorset. The valley lies to the east of Blandford Forum. The river rises near Cranborne Chase, an area of chalk downland, and flows broadly from north to south before joining the river Stour. The eight Tarrant Valley villages/hamlets all bear the name of the river. Listed in order from the river's source they are: There were possibly one or two other Tarrant communities:
 * Tarrant Gunville: the source of the river is in the grounds of Gunville House, now demolished. The parish church is dedicated to St Mary.
 * Tarrant Hinton: a village at a crossroads. The parish church is dedicated to St Mary.
 * Tarrant Launceston: a hamlet with a 17th-century three-arched bridge. The church, dedicated to St Mary, was demolished in the 1700s (the site is on Higher Dairy Farm). Now part of the parish of Tarrant Monkton.
 * Tarrant Monkton: a village with a parish church dedicated to All Saints.
 * Tarrant Rawston: a very small settlement. This once had a parish church dedicated to St Mary, which still exists and is in private ownership but remains as a church.
 * Tarrant Rushton: a village with a parish church dedicated to St Mary. Near here was a World War II RAF airfield.
 * Tarrant Keyneston: this is the largest village of the eight; it has a parish church dedicated to All Saints.
 * Tarrant Crawford, the final settlement, lies at the confluence of the rivers Tarrant and Stour. Here there is the church of St Mary the Virgin held by the Churches Conservation Trust and Tarrant Abbey farm, where once stood a nunnery. Tarrant Crawford became part of the parish of Tarrant Keyneston.

 * Tarrant Stubhampton, north of Tarrant Gunville and part of that parish: This is now known as Stubhampton, part of the parish of Tarrant Gunville. In the Middle Ages, a church existed in that village. This is the source of the Tarrant.
 * Tarrant Antioch which may have been an earlier name for Tarrant Rawston, or may have been a distinct community just north of Tarrant Rawston. Tarrant Antioch was served by St Mary Tarrant Crawford, where there was a devotion to St Margaret of Antioch.
 * Tarrant Preston, now Preston Farm

A Roman road followed the valley and there are many tumuli on the hills on both sides of the river, evidence of long occupation.

title: River Tarrant


text:
Linchpin

A linchpin, also spelled linch pin, lynchpin, or lynch pin, is a fastener used to prevent a wheel or other part from sliding off the axle upon which it is riding. The word is first attested in the late fourteenth century and derives from Middle English elements meaning "axletree pin".

Securing implements onto the three-point hitch of a tractor is an example of application. Linchpins may also be used in place of an R-clip for securing hitch pins.

Metaphorical use
The word "linchpin" is also used figuratively to mean "something [or someone] that holds the various elements of a complicated structure together".

title: Linchpin


text:
Ilyushin Il-6

The Ilyushin Il-6 (Ильюшин Ил-6) was a Soviet long-range bomber developed from the Ilyushin Il-4 during 1942. Originally intended as a high-speed replacement for the Il-4, it was recast as a very long-range bomber with fuel-conserving diesel engines before production of the single prototype began in December 1942. Flight testing showed controllability issues when landing at high weights and the engines proved to be hard to start at low temperatures and were slow to respond to throttle movements. Further development was canceled in 1944.

Development
Outwardly similar to the Il-4, the Il-6 was faster and had a longer and slimmer fuselage fitted with a completely new, highly tapered wing with an aspect ratio of 8. The engine nacelles were streamlined to reduce drag and increase speed as the engine radiators were mounted in the wing center section, fed by slits in the leading edge of the wing. Defensive armament was greatly improved with five 20 mm cannon fitted on flexible mountings in the nose, dorsal turret, two waist positions and a ventral blister forward of the tailplane.

The Il-6 was originally intended as a high-speed replacement for the Il-4. But after the initial design was completed in August 1942, the VVS requested that the bomber have extended range instead of high speed. The original M-71 radial engines were therefore replaced by Charomskiy ACh-30 diesel engines with low fuel consumption which promised to give the Il-6 the required range, especially when operated at moderate weights. The revised design was completed in December 1942 and production of the prototype was initiated. The first flight of the Il-6 was made in Irkutsk on 7 August 1943 with lower-powered ACh-30B engines substituted for the unavailable ACh-30BF engines.

Flight tests revealed difficult handling, and a lack of power due to the non-availability of the intended ACh-30BF engines. Flight tests continued without the waist guns and their gunner until the ACh-30BF's were fitted between May and July 1944. Despite modifications, the aircraft still suffered from poor controllability at low speeds and high weights as well as very poor gliding performance. Throughout the flight tests the engines performed satisfactorily in the air, but were found to be very difficult to start in low ambient temperatures and had slow response to throttle movements. Further development was canceled.

Variants

 * Il-6 – intended production version with Charomskiy ACh-30BF engines (also known as M-30).
 * Il-6 – bomber with M-90 engines - projected variant with M-90 engines, production drawings were issued but nothing further was heard of it, presumably as all effort was focused on the diesel-powered version.

title: Ilyushin Il-6


text: User talk:66.250.190.109

title: User talk:66.250.190.109


text:
Nebulous

Nebulous is a post-apocalyptic science fiction comedy radio show written by Graham Duff and produced by Ted Dowd from Baby Cow Productions; it is directed by Nicholas Briggs. The series premiered in the United Kingdom on BBC Radio 4. Set in the year 2099 AD, the show focuses on the adventures of the eponymous Professor Nebulous, director of operations for the eco-troubleshooting team KENT (the Key Environmental Non-Judgmental Taskforce) as they combat various catastrophes and try to set the world back on the right path following a worldwide environmental disaster known as "The Withering". As well as being a parody of a number of famous science fiction programmes, including Doctor Who, Quatermass and Doomwatch, Nebulous is considered a cult radio programme, attracting a number of guest appearances from famous actors.

There have been three series of Nebulous; the first was broadcast between 6 January and 10 February 2005. The series was well received by critics, and a second series was broadcast between 5 April and 10 May 2006, with a third series commissioned by the BBC which began broadcasting on Thursday, 15 May 2008 at 23:00 BST. The first series was released on compact disc on 5 February 2007 by BBC Audio. Since 2009 all three series have been broadcast on BBC Radio 7. Duff has also announced that he is planning to make an animated series of Nebulous.

Development
The development of the series began with the production pilot episode, written by Graham Duff and produced by Baby Cow Productions in March 2003. The episode, which eventually became "Night of the Vegetarians", featured much of the final cast, but with a number of differences: a different actor played Rory, and Sir Ronald Rowlands was voiced by Duff, while Gemini originally had two voices: a female voice played by Julia Dalkin, and a male voice by Nicholas Briggs. Malcolm Boyle - who wrote the Nebulous theme and edited the pilot - had written an entire original score for the show. However, due to BBC radio budget limitations, this was not used in the completed series. Nicholas Briggs had also originally created a very deep, realistic soundscape, similar to those he had created for the Big Finish Productions Doctor Who audioplays, but was advised that "it's likely the listener will have distractions and will not listen to it more than once; therefore, the soundscape must be totally accessible from any point in the episode", toning down the sound effects to match the series' comic nature.

Recording
The Moat Studios in London recorded Nebulous in stereo, with each half-hour episode typically taking one day to record, including read-through and rehearsal. Nicholas Briggs produced the sound, using a combination of synthesised effects from a Roland SH-101 and foley sound effects. Briggs also carried out the studio editing in order to bring the 30-minute episodes down to the 28 minutes mandated by the BBC to allow time for radio trailers between programmes.

Setting
Set in the year 2099, the series depicts the Earth as very different from today. Following a number of environmental disasters, such as "the Withering" – which resulted in the loss of a great deal of human knowledge including the vacuum cleaner and fire (although the latter came back fairly quickly) – and a "Cattle-clasm" that killed off most of the livestock, the Earth has been reduced to a wasteland separated between "Withered Zones" and the remaining inhabitable areas. The Withering shifted the Earth into a new orbit, resulting in disruption to the seasons and a reformed calendar. Every day of the week is now 25-hours long except for Thursday (which, due to time anomalies, has not occurred in over a decade), while the change in the length of the year led to the creation of new months such as Janril, Febtober, and Marchuary. In addition, the dreary season of Hamble was created, which is permanently dark, cold and drizzly. The Withering resulted in vegetarians, pigeons and gays becoming endangered species, and completely wiped out tarts.

The Earth's geography is also radically altered. A new mountain range was formed in Britain by a day-long ice age, and the Earth now has twelve and a half continents. Many locations have been displaced and reduced to islands, including Oxford University and the London borough of Deptford, which is now in the Indonesian Ocean as a part of the Cockney Islands. The Solar System is equally altered: Jupiter has been deep fried by Harry Ramsden's, Mercury and Neptune have been knocked together, and there was an initiative to destroy the Moon, which according to the show was deleterious to the nightlight industry.

Religion also exists in the Nebulous universe. Pieced together following the Withering, theologians conclude that there were four true deities: the evil twins Yin and Yang, Feng Shui the destroyer, and merciful Bod, based on the children's television programme Bod, the theme tune of which has become a hymn, sung in Gregorian chant. Bod is analogous to God, hence the commonly used phrase "Oh my Bod!"

Storyline
Nebulous follows the adventures of the eco-troubleshooting team "KENT" (the Key Environmental Non-Judgmental Taskforce, named after the English county of Kent). The group is directed by Professor Nebulous toward the goal of restoring a natural balance to Earth. However, they are woefully under-funded; KENT was forced to open a laundry to supplement funds. There is at least one other eco-troubleshooting team based in England, but despite their common goals they have a less-than-hospitable view of each other. LOUGHBOROUGH (the Legitimate Organisation Undertaking General Humanitarian Business Operations Requiring Optimum Unconditional Global Harmony, named after the Leicestershire town Loughborough) is run by Professor Nebulous’ ex-love interest, Doctor Erica Flazenby. By comparison to KENT it is over-funded and well-equipped, with bazers, black helicopters and info pills, which provide the user with information by ingestion.

Nebulous both parodies and pays homage to several well known science fiction programmes and films in both its setting and plotlines, often incorporating several different elements within a single story: Professor Nebulous himself is similar to Bernard Quatermass, a British scientist who led a research group and fought aliens in the classic science fiction serial The Quatermass Experiment and its sequels. KENT itself is based partly on the Department of Measurement of Scientific Work, nicknamed "Doomwatch", the eponymous organisation from the BBC science fiction television programme Doomwatch, and partly on the Doctor Who Organization "U.N.I.T", otherwise known as the "United Nations Intelligence Taskforce". The second episode of series one, "The Loverly Invasion", is a direct spoof of the Doctor Who episode "The Claws of Axos", while "The Deptford Wives" takes both its name and premise from The Stepford Wives (and also borrows from Jurassic Park). From the first episode of series 3 onwards, this also began to include the recent Doctor Who spin-off Torchwood and the ITV series Primeval, with references to "baby dinosaurs falling through a hole in time" and "the sheer amount of paranormal activity in the Cardiff area alone ... starting to threaten the Earth's plausibility shield". Episode 6 of that series also parodied the tendency in British sci-fi for attempts to take over the world to start in Britain, with the chief villain (played by Tenth Doctor actor David Tennant) stating "Funnily enough, that's a tax thing," as well as one of the Ninth Doctor's nicknames, "the oncoming storm" (with Nebulous known as "the oncoming drizzle").

Cast

 * Mark Gatiss – Professor Boffo Nebulous
 * Rosie Cavaliero – Paula Breeze (assistant to Nebulous)
 * Graham Duff – Rory Lawson (assistant to Nebulous)
 * Paul Putner – Harry Hayes (researcher for KENT)
 * Graham Crowden – Ronald Rowlands (Minister with Unusual Portfolio)
 * David Warner – Doctor Klench (Nebulous' arch-rival)
 * Julia Dalkin – Nebulous's mother, Gemini (KENT's resident supercomputer)
 * Matt Wolf – Nebulous's father

Following positive reviews and high listening figures, the second series was able to attract a number of guest appearances from well known actors, including Peter Davison, Steve Coogan, and Kate O'Mara. The third series featured appearances from Julia Davis and David Tennant.

Reviews
Reception to Nebulous was generally positive: a reviewer from The Times described the first series as "a winning blend of Doomwatch, Quatermass and British silliness that has cult written all over it", while the second series was described as "cool and cultish". However, The Daily Telegraph was more guarded, comparing the show to "Hitchhiker's without the philosophy or Red Dwarf without the energy", going on to say that show is "funny, but not seriously so". A reviewer for Doctor Who website UnitNews also initially expressed concerns about the level of jokes in the show, but later claimed "I should have been more patient because when they did arrive, coinciding with the introduction of the character Harry, they were relentlessly funny".

title: Nebulous


text:
User:RHaworth/CharAss

Some other users I have noticed.

 * Arpingstone - Bristol - did not know the difference between train and locomotive
 * BeowulfMacCool - see LikeJudasOfOld below
 * Citilink
 * Crazeman - removed a map sources link
 * Cyberjunkie - Australia. Does not like British Commonwealth. Thinks CBD is a defined term.
 * Fan-1967 - possible admin material
 * Flockmeal - Admin - confines himself to reversions and welcoming people
 * St. Colman's College - likely vandals
 * damusicman - papist vandal
 * Flurng - Daryll Dubbs - producing lonely music clusters
 * Grutness - New Zealander - into Categorising and -geo-stub's
 * J3Mrs - not really a bad guy - but ain't she female?
 * Jamesday - Admin and developer
 * 80.192.177.59 (Telewest) - ? sock puppet for Jonjoe.
 * The JPS - sensitive to criticism in edit summaries
 * Keith Edkins - leaves naked URL's for local authorities in info boxes
 * - I suspect that this is a re-incarnation of a user who has been blocked on another name for belligerent behaviour. Note also the curious edit history of . I predict (2010-12-12) that within a year LikeJudasOfOld will get blocked and move on to another user name.
 * 80.177.212.227 - Linked numbering scheme and other contributions
 * Martemcers - interesting edit to St. Colman's College
 * MacGyverMagic - prolific dutch admin
 * Nichalp - Mumbai - considering he claims to be an electronics engineer, his contribs on telephony have been pretty poor
 * Nickj - Sydney
 * Niteowlneils - "the vast majority of my edits are from newpages patrol" (eg. all of Flurng's contribs!)
 * Palmiped - Norfolk - see this for his name
 * RHaworth also appears as, , [not yet documented], and follow the trail forward from there.
 * 69.164.70.243 - sock puppet of Rktect
 * Saopaulo1 - silly edits to List of North American area codes - need to be reverted from /sb2
 * SimonP - started the Bible verses debate with John 20:16
 * Sjorford - Staffordshire - into football and parishes
 * Sophroniscus - papist - tell him too look at damusicman if he comes back
 * Stavros1 - Norfolk war memorials, etc. - despite the similarity between this image and this one, I don't think Stavros1 is Stephen D Bennett. Try Mark Hobbs
 * Tabletop - rail voltage stubs 600VDC, etc.
 * Uncle G - not Admin but active in VfD debates
 * Yuma Proving Ground - likely to be Michael McAnnis
 * Zonk43 - the tower person

For inappropriate edits:
 * Jonjoe - admitted sock puppet: 62.30.46.13; possible sock puppet: 80.192.177.59
 * Cow monkey111 - strange templates, etc.
 * Abcancer - STUT spammer
 * Seifabdoun - Arabic spammer
 * Samird - from Caterham School - Judie Mullins
 * Vladyk - Transmutalism and Emmanuel de Ceriz
 * JewishVulcan - image vios
 * sockpuppets of Supermanaia87 - the Charmed/Halliwell vandal

I am also watching:
 * Whatlinkshere/Sutton for any new links created

title: User:RHaworth/CharAss