text:
Talk:Source-code editor

Redirect to Text editor?
Regular users can't use text editor and most text editor user are programmers. So I don't see why there is a need for a separated page mentioning the same thing. --Minghong 10:30, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, for one thing, structural languages like XML are not "source code" in the traditional sense. I used to do a lot of work with text editors, back when I was a "regular user". :) func (talk) 03:59, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

from Vfd
On 10 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Source code editor for a record of the discussion. —Korath (Talk) 17:52, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

"Well-known" editors
I added a note to the list section that any additions will be reverted if they aren't discussed here first. The addition of "Kate" prompted me to do this, a SCE I have never heard of, for a development environment I have never heard of either. It seems incredibley niche, but I didn't revert it (for now). But lists like this have a tendancy to balloon on Wikipedia—people "spam" the list with their pet additions, in hopes of popularizing them. So from now on, if one wishes to add an SCE to the list, I'd like it to be discussed here and agreed upong first. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:39, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry for not discussing before adding. I'm new here. Kate is part of the kdebase package, and is the default editor on any KDE desktop. (If there is such thing as a "default" editor) --Ropez 19:30, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * To clarify, KDE is big in Linux, making Kate more popular than a lot of the others listed.

 * However, Kate and some others may not qualify for a more complex reason. Is there a difference between a "Source Code Editor" and an "editor that edits text files, some of which could be source code"?  If we make no distinction, someone could add "Notepad".  --A D Monroe III 20:03, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree that general text editors don't qualify for the list. However, KDevelop is for software development, but has no text editor. Kate is the editing component. The combination Kate/KDevelop must qualify as a source editor, just like the editing component of Visual Studio is on the list. Whether it is "well known" is very hard to say for any editor. One way to tell is to use google search results. I tried some:
 * "scite" - 142.000, "editpad" - 143.000, "editplus" - 155.000, "bbedit" - 372.000, "emacs" - 3.700.000, "hessling editor" - 5.430 and finally: "kate" (obviously a lot), ("kate+editor" - 1.480.000 edit: lot of "fake" results) "kde+kate" - 184.000, "kdevelop" - 607.000 --Ropez 22:12, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I added the ISPF/PDF Editor to the list. This was one of the first, released 30 years ago, and is still the major editor for programmers on mainframe systems. Versions have been written for various PC systems, running under TRS-DOS, Linux, and Windows. T-bonham 06:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The list of well known editors was supposed to be kept short. Still, people keep adding new editors that are neither well-known nor source code editors. For example, something called IntelliJ IDEA was just added. Never heard of that, definitely not well known. Before that, someone added Programmer's Notepad. It is one of the dozens of Notepad replacements that flooded market in late 90's, done by adding some wrapper code around Windows RichEdit component. Before that Crimson Editor was added. It is a simple editor that is neither well-known nor a source code editor. Then there is something called editix XML Editor, which is not a source code editor but an XML editor. Some clean-up is needed. --PauliKL (talk) 15:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

 * EditiX and Lazarus do not appear to meet the stated guidelines (they're niche products). Tedickey (talk) 10:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

What about adding a section called something like "other editors" at the bottom which is a laundry list of all editors, and keeping only a few "most well known" editors higher on the page? 16:48, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Eclipse (software) is very well-known and multi-language, and should be added. 16:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.217.103.100 (talk)

 * No, Eclipse should not be here. It is not a source code editor, but a toolkit for building IDE's. --PauliKL (talk) 21:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Is it ok if i add ConTEXT to the list? ConTEXT It is a very popular editor, especially when editing Uscript —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan911 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

"Well-known" editors -- list order
I changed this list to be in alphabetical order, instead of just random order. Might be better to have it listed with the most frequently used first, but that would probably lead to 'religious-type' wars. T-bonham (talk) 03:32, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Criteria for being a Source Code Editor
I propose that we qualify the editors listed here by a precise criteria of features. To be a source code editor, rather than just a text editor, it must have most of the features listed in Comparison of text editors, subsection Programming features. --A D Monroe III 1 July 2005 19:49 (UTC)

 * Most of the examples given do not meet that set of criteria TEDickey (talk) 09:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Needs cleanup
First paragraph okay, rather chaotic later. Suddenly goes to talk about mode-based editors etc.

SlickEdit
I'm the first to revert spamming of articles, but I don't think my addition of SlickEdit to the list was spam (my addition of it was reverted). It's a widely used source code editor and is probably more deserving than some of the other programs in the list, such as Visual Studio, which isn't a source code editor at all, but an IDE. Don't get me wrong, I love Visual Studio, but to use it just to edit source code would be rediculous. So, I'm lobbying for agreement to allow it to be added.

While I'm at it, I'd lobby for NEdit as well. Any objections to either? — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:09, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

 * well, there's a notice in the html comment to really keep the list short; just the typical editors for each platform. Maybe add a separate article so everyone can list his pet editor (with possibility to add an overview of features or something like that); ...--LimoWreck 19:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

That's funny--I might've been the one that added that HTML comment, but didn't see it when I added SlickEdit! Okay, I can see Visual Studio as being the predominant SCE for Windows; most Windows developers use it w/o using a seperate editor. Not a big deal, it is already in the list of text editors, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks for the response. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The list of text editors might be an appropriate place indeed, as there would indeed be a lot of duplicate information between a list of source code editors and a list of text editors... --LimoWreck 21:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

SciTE
What about SciTE that is the best source code editor I've ever seen.

You should add it to the list.

 * If SciTE is the best source code editor you have seen, then it must be the only source code editor you have seen. It is just one of the dozens of quick-and-dirty editors made by adding some wrapper code around SCIntilla editing component. And it is not well known either. --PauliKL (talk) 21:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

source code only
What about those things that won't let you type/save code with invalid syntax? Is there a name for that?

For example, consider Atari BASIC. Your program was stored in a tokenized representation, possibly a parse tree. The computer did not retain the text you wrote. When you asked to see your code, the computer pretty much did a disassembly from that tokenized representation. As a side effect, this enforced a particular style of whitespace and such -- you got pretty printing every time.

Of course, only BASIC could be typed into that editor.

I think it's been done elsewhere, maybe for FORTH.

24.110.145.202 02:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

 * That is what came first in my mind, too, when I saw the talk about source code editors.
 * This kind of integrated editors were built-in in most home computers back in the eighties. They usually check the syntax immediately and tokenize the code, so that it is impossible to enter a syntactically incorrect line in the program. In Sinclair ZX-80, ZX81 and Spectrum, you could even enter the keywords (such as PRINT) with a single key press. I think this kind of editor is the only real source code editor. It can only be used for editing the source code. All the editors listed on this page are just text editors. And most text editors these days have features for source code editing.
 * -- PauliKL (talk) 17:27, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Good point. I added a brief mention of syntax-check and tokenizing to this article.
 * Yes, Jeff Fox talked about an editor like this for this Aha Forth system.
 * Has it been done elsewhere? Is there a more specific name for editors that do automatic syntax-checking? Is there a more specific name for editors that don't store the "original" source code, but instead display the code from a disassembly from the tokenized representation? --68.0.124.33 (talk) 04:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I see that at least one implementation of Open Firmware apparently does such disassembly from the tokenized Forth representation. --68.0.124.33 (talk) 05:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

 * They're not as common anymore, but most of the ROM-based editors did this - to save RAM. It was also the usual case for any machine with limited memory (not just for BASIC, but other interpreted languages such as APL).  To improve the paragraph, it would be helpful to shift away from the focus on specific examples (there are many more than listed) to pointing out the situations in which that scheme would be used. Tedickey (talk) 10:24, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

html is not "source code"
Some basic criteria should be kept in mind, and those are listed at the top of this topic. Editors for C, Basic, Java, even JavaScript are suitable. TEDickey (talk) 22:00, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It isn't a programming language, but still source code; as good as LaTeX, XML and any config files are. --Demonkoryu (talk) 08:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

 * The sentence limits this to "computer programs". Perhaps you'd like to move this topic away from consensus on what "source code" means TEDickey (talk) 10:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

 * HTML can be considered a declarative programming language and thus constitutes source code for computer programs (e.g., web applications and web frameworks usually have HTML source code). 50.53.1.33 (talk) 07:13, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Fixed excessive examples
I have fixed the page. It had excessive examples and was becoming "List of source code editors". I also added a new section in the same edit. 203.97.127.101 (talk) 00:41, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you create a list article ? May be welcome. Yug  (talk)  22:59, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

population of example farm
The linked topic for Atom in particular has no sources that demonstrate that it is "well-known". Rather, it has a weak source for notability, and normally would be deleted outright. TEDickey (talk) 08:09, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Atom is a widely-used code editor as per . I suggest to remove the “dubious” suffix in the article. -- Molily (talk) 09:53, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Neither one of those is a reliable source. You may as well use Wikipedia.  For both, the content is (a) largely contributed anonymously and (b) both have a lot of conflict of interest. TEDickey (talk) 23:19, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Its notability is easily substantiated by:
 * I added these as references and removed the dubious tag. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I added these as references and removed the dubious tag. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I added these as references and removed the dubious tag. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I added these as references and removed the dubious tag. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I added these as references and removed the dubious tag. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 19:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

 * You can make whatever assertions you want; some of them could be based on facts. But without facts, there's nothing to discuss here. TEDickey (talk) 08:11, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

 * You questioned notability. The fact is those references substantiate notability (unless you are questioning the veracity and/or notability of Softpedia, InfoWorld or VentureBeat as sources; but please discuss the notability of those on their own article talk pages thank you). What other facts are you concerned about? Or are you wanting to discuss how facts themselves are defined? 50.53.1.33 (talk) 13:50, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Re-added some editors
I re-added some of the removed editors as they were notable enough to be in Wikipedia and they met the bar as being source-code editors and not just general text-editors (i.e., having a significant portion of the feature set mentioned at Comparison of text editors): I now consider these to be discussed on the talk page here, so please do not remove them without further adequate discussion (but please do add your comments as we want the article to be the best it can be of course). Thank you. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 21:11, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Atom (which was already discussed above at )
 * Brackets
 * Light Table
 * Sublime Text

 * (Per BRD, I've reverted the re-addition until consensus is reached.)
 * Having a WP article is definitely not sufficient for inclusion; otherwise the list would have hundreds of entries.
 * What we need are sources stating their very significant notability equal to or in excess of those already listed. Without that, they must be removed.  Sources?  --A D Monroe III (talk) 21:32, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The only one in the entire list which had such source information you removed (Atom). By that argument, the entire list should be removed save the one that had sources. I am all for adding such source information, however, I also do not think everything that does not have a source needs to be removed either. Currently you are arguing for source information for a few popular items while other items in the list have none (which seems very unbalanced). 50.53.1.33 (talk) 14:24, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * True, we lack sources; we have the list as-is only because it's the long-standing consensus. Basically, EMACS and the like are old.  To add something after this, we need to go beyond this (low) standard.  Should be easy, right?
 * Sources stating an editor is used isn't enough, or we're opening the door for the list to grow endlessly. Instead, we need sources that indicate it's notability equal to or above the current list.  If for some reason that can't be done, then we can't say there's known harm in leaving newer things off the list.
 * Remember the purpose of the list: to give the reader a tangible idea of what a source code editor is. A long list obscures that purpose.  --A D Monroe III (talk) 19:53, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * So you are saying I need sources to remove material now? And just where should I put such sources? I never saw any consensus (long standing or otherwise). Please provide (links to) the discussion resulting in this consensus you speak of. Thank you. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 05:29, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * BTW, I a quick search of "best source code editor" on Google and found some great lists (I have not yet done the work to vet them for veracity and notability etc. so I have yet to provide them here). Not a single list mentioned EMACS (though it was mentioned in a user comment on the bottom of one list). How do I go about removing EMACS from the list on this article (since it seems you do not want to allow such to be removed) based on these references (once I get them organized). Thank you. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 05:35, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, sources supporting significant notability would be good.
 * Note that "best" has nothing to do with notability here. "Popularity" would be somewhat better (when combined with longevity), but I haven't found RSs for this.  Extending that with "influential" would be excellent -- being the basis for other source code editors, or contributing to the development of software engineering.
 * Emacs certainly isn't a joy to use, but it's fundamental and influential, perhaps the first source code editor. This is similar to how Fortran, Cobol, and Algol are listed in computer language articles.
 * --A D Monroe III (talk) 17:24, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Please provide sources that support your argument that Emacs is fundamental and influential. Being first does not specifically make it notable. XEDIT is also an early source code editor that was influential in its day but is all but forgotten today. Thank you. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

 * The current list is the current list. Is there a specific argument why Emacs is not notable?  Or is the WP:POINT that the whole list should be deleted?  Would that improve the article?  --A D Monroe III (talk) 16:47, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not trying to disrupt anything but I really do think the entire list should be rebuilt with notable references, including Emacs which I do not believe merits the notability bar for a popular source code editor (especially in light of much more popular ones). Is there a reason to not remove it pending good notable references? I have called it into question. I believe that means it should be removed or sufficient references be added. Thank you. 50.53.1.33 (talk) 23:21, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Calling something into question, but providing no sources, isn't evidence. If there's something beyond an editor's opinion that applies to Emacs but not the others, that could be a separate discussion, but it doesn't apply to this discussion. This discussion is about criteria for the list of examples.  Again, changing the list requires RSs indicating high notability.  Are there any?  --A D Monroe III (talk) 16:29, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Jetbrains editors such as IntelliJ IDEA
Currently there are no Jetbrains editors - popular examples include Webstorm, PHPStorm, PyCharm. These are very popular. IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate is sort of the flagship product. Thoughts on adding one of these editors to represent Jetbrains? II | (t - c) 08:20, 10 March 2018 (UTC)  II  | (t - c) 08:20, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

 * There's a different topic for IDE's. This topic (which is now little more than a list of promotional links) started as source-code editors TEDickey (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Added Atom and Sublime Text
If you are a software or web developer, you will certainly know that Atom (Atom.io) and Sublime Text are two of the very most popular source-code (or text) editors. They MUST be included. I have therefore added them. Stephen Karakashev (talk) 20:49, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

 * "MUST", why? How is the article improved by their names in a list?  We need sources to change the list, not editor opinions.  Reverting, per existing standing agreement, at least until some consensus is reached here.  --A D Monroe III(talk)  22:23, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Atom, Sublime and Visual Studio are currently the dominant actors of the industry yes. Must be added. Yug (talk)  22:39, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * "The major players operating into Text Editor Market include: Visual Studio Code, Notepad++, Sublime, Brackets, UltraEdit, Atom." -- Global Text Editor Market By Product Type (Cloud Based, Web Based) And By End-Users/Application (Large Enterprises, SMEs) Global Market Share, Forecast Data, In-Depth Analysis, And Detailed Overview, and Forecast, 2013 - 2026, https://www.apexmarketsresearch.com/report/global-text-editor-market-by-product-type-cloud-468736/
 * I added them all. Monroe, thanks to not revert duly sourced content. You are also required to disclose any conflict of interests if you have any relation with Visual Studio and associated companies. Yug (talk)  14:49, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Questioning current "No addition" policy
I'am uncomfortable to bump into the current practices on this article. The current "no addition without prior discussion" is OPPOSED to Wikipedia core values of successive additions, discussions, consensus building. Scanning the talkpage, I see :
 * the article was described as 'spammed' by irrelevant text editors back in the early 2010s.
 * A D Monroe III's Revision as of 2017-07-05T17:35:11 arbitrarily reduce the list, including by :
 * arbitrarily removing : Atom, Sublime , UltraEdit , Bracket . Atom was the only one covered by references. The four are today (2020) cited among "the 6 major players".
 * arbitrarily keeping : Notepad++, Visual Studio , Gedit, EMACS, etc. based on NO source, but the single appreciation of the editor.
 * the list had zero references, zero citation supporting the notoriety of its items selected by and protected by A D Monroe III. PS: conflict of interests.
 * on addition of new items to the list is forbidden
 * successive editors have argued to add well known text editors, but have been reverted by authority. The core status quo argument is stated by A D Monroe III on 2017-08-12: The current list is the current list. Is there a specific argument why Emacs is not notable?).
 * editors are reverted by A D Monroe III, then forced into time-consuming and vain arguments to be allowed to do edits of few characters in, or pass a criteria that no existing (selected by Monroe III) item actually pass : provide an explicitly supportive source
 * additions suggested are now demonstrated to be relevant . cc:
 * : added Atom, Brackets , Light Table, Sublime Text , was reverted by authority (A D Monroe III).
 * : added Atom, Sublime Text , was reverted by authority (A D Monroe III).
 * : added CodeMirror (dominant cloud editor), was reverted by authority (A D Monroe III, Revision 2020-01-27T21:15:33 "[...] all addition without discussion are deleted").
 * on removal: removal of existing yet unsourced items is, on the contrary, forbidden
 * A D Monroe III weirdly twisted that currently unsourced items must be kept unless prof of non notability is provided (2017-08-12: The current list is the current list. Is there a specific argument why Emacs is not notable?). Also know as "prove me that something is not something".
 * Editor A D Monroe III has therefor :
 * de facto created and maintained a different standards of inclusions between items of his selection, and items suggested by others.
 * systematically pushed the burden of proof (sources) on other, while protecting his content without such burden (unsourced ok there)
 * in action prevented several legit edits and users, one after another, to edit the [his] arbitrary list.
 * the current situation seems a case of legit issue (avoid spamming) which as get out of control and into an excessive control, or WP:OWN:

A normal wiki situation would allows all parties equal rights on the article's list, be it for addition or removal. Everyone has blind spot, and knows only a part of the field. Wikipedia is best when all can add their part to the common knowledge storage units that are article.

Alternatively, if an acceptation rule must indeed be set up, I suggest to accept only editors with sourced notability, materialized by a credible reference, and to remove all non-sourced items from the list. Yug (talk)  17:32, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

 * First, I welcome the attention you bring to this long-running issue, including examining the history of my and other editors here; this is all commendable.

 * But you are apparently framing a lot of your arguments upon my motivations. This includes describing my edits with "arbitrary", "by authority", "double standard", OWN, etc.  You don't know me, nor my motivations.  If you think I've actually demonstrated bad faith, for the good of WP you should really take it up on one of the drama pages, not scatter them in some obscure talk page, forcing me to respond to these apparent accusations to avoid my fear of the well being poisoned, thus wasting everyone's time and derailing the discussion, to the detriment of the article.  In my experience, you'll get more support for your views if you avoid any hint of attacking other editors in your comments.

 * For the good of better presenting your views on this issue, I suggest that you edit the opening post to remove or strike of what I perceive as apparent slips of AGF. If you do so, I'll gladly remove all my comments here and above from this discussion, in order to have all editors focus solely on improving the article.  Failing that, I urge you to at least not spend any effort to repeat, continue, or defend them, and simply avoid hinting at my motivations.  Seriously, none of this helps the article.  --A D Monroe III(talk)  19:24, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

--
 * Here's the current situation as I see it.
 * Having a short list of example source code editors helps the reader.
 * We currently have such a list.
 * The list isn't justified by sources.
 * We need some guideline to qualify adding to the list, or it will become bloated and useless.
 * The current guideline, just "leave it as it is", is short-sighted, unsatisfactory, and ultimately unsustainable.
 * Agreed? --A D Monroe III(talk)  19:38, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Monroe, given you used against 3 editors a decision making process visibly asymmetrical and in your favor, given I have the wiki experience to dig up quickly the situation, which other editors can't always do, it was a good choice to document the history of this weird no additions without discussions rule. Conscious or not, asymmetric edit war is one of the dirtiest methods to push away other wikipedia editors.
 * Having done that, yes, need to work out an alternative long term solution so this article keeps a balance. Source is best, consensus is good too : when several users come to add something, there is likely something to fix. Criteria could help as well : popularity then and now (now=state of the art), innovative value, representative of a type, and set an approximate max length for the list. Yug (talk)  20:10, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

 * Of course, you've read (and ignored) WP:NPA in constructing this essay. Might be a good time to read the policies that you don't agree with TEDickey (talk) 21:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:NPA: "Serious accusations require serious evidence, usually in the form of diffs and links." ✅.
 * Please open a section, cite the exact chains of words which don't pass the WP:NPA criteria, I will examine, remove the violations to NPA, and present my apologizes to the offended party. Yug (talk)  23:58, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Sigh. How are personal accusations helpful for this issue?  All they do here is waste everyone's time, and actually distract from improving the article.  If supported by evidence, the accusations belong on one of the drama boards, not an article talk page.

- On the actual subject of this discussion, the example list, since no one found the bandwidth to disagree with my stated assessment points, I'll take that as a tacit agreement enough for the next step: fixing the problem.

Although it's hidden in the vitriol, Yug has brought a source that could be used to evaluate the most popular SCEs. I consider this a breakthrough. I propose we rewrite the list using that source, keeping it to about a dozen. Agreed? --A D Monroe III(talk) 23:29, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , I don't see that this process is "visibly asymmetrical and in [A D Monroe's] favor"--and I will add that it assumes that A D Monroe has some special interest here for which they bend article content in their favor. As a violation of AGF, that is really a personal attack, just to make that clear. "Source is best, consensus is good too"--well, nothing will happen without sourcing, and nothing will happen if there isn't consensus on the sourcing criteria. You can't list them like that as if they are on some hierarchical scale. They are not; both are required, but both take place in different spheres. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 01:27, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

"History" section
The current "History" section chooses a few popular examples which aren't close to covering the historical sense of this topic. In doing so, it misleads the reader TEDickey (talk) 19:23, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

 * I started the History section and I completely agree that it is not very good right now. I added the Expand Section Template. Do you think we still need the NPOV template? Squidroot2 (talk) 01:06, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

 * yes - as written it implies that vim was the first to provide the syntax-highlighting feature (it was not that, nor even the first "vi" to do this) TEDickey (talk) 08:57, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

polls are unreliable sources
Review reliable source guidelines versus polls and the like TEDickey (talk) 14:46, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

 * What if it was reworded to make it clear that the claim is simply that those editors were at the top of Stack Overflow's Survey and not that they necessarily are the most loved editors? Squidroot2 (talk) 17:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia topics are supposed to be summarizing information gathered and analyzed by knowledgeable people (that's the point of reliable sources). Gathering and selecting things in that way makes the Wikipedia editors into authors TEDickey (talk) 20:44, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, that makes sense. Thank you for your patience in explaining this; as I'm sure you can tell, I am new to contributing to Wikipedia. I have removed the statements that were based on Survey Results. Squidroot2 (talk) 21:59, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

 * no problem. Polls tend to be self-selecting, and biased. TEDickey (talk) 10:27, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 13 September 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. By consensus (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 00:39, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Source-code editor → Code editor – Sinmplify the title. Interstellarity (talk) 23:05, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943  (talk) 18:28, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Noting that Source code doesn't use a hyphen, and article implies source code is only one type of code (Bytecode is very different for instance), so not sure if this would be uncontroversial. -Kj cheetham (talk) 23:32, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Are we sure that it never takes a hyphen, even when it is used as an attributive modifier (as discussed in point three of MOS:HYPHEN)? Graham (talk) 02:46, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm also not convinced that this would be uncontroversial. "Code editor" could mean several different things. Dr. Vogel (talk) 01:45, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This should go to WP:RM. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:34, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Ping current participants. Steel1943  (talk) 18:30, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

 * To Sinmplify the title would not follow the Wikipedia guidelines for common name TEDickey (talk) 19:55, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose There are multiple types of code, and this would make it not WP:PRECISE enough. However I am neutral if it should have a hyphen or not. -Kj cheetham (talk) 21:00, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose as well per Kj above, but I am not neutral on the hyphen. ;-) While source code could historically also be written as source-code (before it became a commonly established term making the hyphen unnecessary), "source code editor" would be a (common) misspelling. Source-code editor is correct. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 17:01, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per User:Kj cheetham. The proposed title is too generic. This is specifically about source code. J I P  | Talk 20:55, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Source-code editor


text:
Hill o' Many Stanes

The Hill O Many Stanes is a south-facing hillside (at ) in Mid Clyth, about 14 km south of Wick in Caithness, in the Highland area of Scotland, which has about 200 upright stones, none more than a metre high, set out in rows running approximately north and south with the incline. The rows are not parallel, however, and they create a fan-shaped pattern. This arrangement is believed to be a relic of Bronze Age times.

From the northern end of the rows, on a clear day, hills along the coast of Banffshire can be seen across the Moray Firth, some 80 km away. If the night sky is clear, the moon, in its most southerly rising position, will be seen over those same hills. In Megalithic Lunar Observatories (Oxford University Press, 1971) Alexander Thom presented evidence that the stone rows were in effect a Bronze Age lunar observatory, tracking lunar movements over a cycle of 18.6 years. However, more than twenty similar stone rows are now known in Caithness and Sutherland and none of the others have been linked with astronomical observations.

In Britain stone rows of this kind are unknown outside Caithness and Sutherland, but similar rows of much taller stones are found in Brittany.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Hill o' Many Stanes


text:
Category:Anti-pornography activists

Anti-pornography activists listed here are people who are or have been engaged in campaigns against pornography.

title: Category:Anti-pornography activists


text:
William A. Rusher

William Allen Rusher (July 19, 1923 – April 16, 2011) was an American lawyer, author, activist, and conservative columnist. He was one of the founders of the modern conservative movement and was one of its most prominent spokesmen for thirty years as publisher of National Review magazine, which was edited by William F. Buckley Jr.  Historian Geoffrey Kabaservice argues that, "in many ways it was Rusher, not Buckley, who was the founding father of the conservative movement as it currently exists. We have Rusher, not Buckley, to thank for the populist, operationally sophisticated, and occasionally extremist elements that characterize the contemporary movement."

Early life
Rusher was born in Chicago in 1923. His family had not been especially political; his parents were moderate Republicans, and his paternal grandfather had been a socialist. In 1930, the family moved to the New York metropolitan area and lived on Long Island. Rusher entered Princeton University at sixteen and was active in student affairs, especially debate. He majored in political science. After graduation in 1943 and wartime service in the United States Army Air Corps, he attended Harvard Law School, where he founded and led the Harvard Young Republicans and from which he graduated in 1948. Until 1956, Rusher practiced corporate law at Shearman, Sterling & Wright, a Wall Street firm in New York City. He then served as associate counsel to the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, under chief counsel Robert J. Morris, for seventeen months.

In these years, Rusher was also active in New York state and national Young Republican politics, helping F. Clifton White to lead an alliance in these organizations including the New York Young Republican Club. He came to the attention of William F. Buckley Jr., editor of the fledgling National Review, shortly after its founding in late 1955, when he wrote an essay for the Harvard Young Republican paper, titled "Cult of Doubt."

National Review and political activism
In mid-1957, William F. Buckley Jr. hired Rusher as publisher of National Review. At the magazine, he oversaw the business operations, but more importantly served as a link to the world of conservative and Republican politics. He held the rank although not the title of senior editor and as such was a full participant in its internal deliberations. At National Review, he advocated that the magazine develop and maintain a leadership role in the conservative movement. In doing this, Rusher sometimes disagreed with Buckley and senior editor James Burnham. In his philosophy of conservative politics and his belief in the urgent need for an active and unified movement to pursue conservative politics, he was especially close to another senior editor at the magazine, Frank Meyer.

Rusher was an early mentor of Young Americans for Freedom, founded in Connecticut with his assistance in 1960. He helped to found the Conservative Party of New York State in 1961, and the American Conservative Union in 1964. He was a mentor to young conservative activists from these early years into the 1990s.

In 1961, Rusher worked with Clif White and Congressman John Ashbrook to form the nucleus of what became U.S. Senator Barry M. Goldwater's campaign for the Republican nomination for the presidency in 1964, known as the Draft Goldwater Committee. Goldwater's victory in the bitterly fought nomination contest over New York Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller and the previously dominant moderate or liberal establishment in the Republican Party was the first stage in the rise to national power of the conservative movement. In December 1961, Rusher was a founding member of the American Committee for Aid to Katanga Freedom Fighters, a lobbying group which sought U.S. recognition of Katanga.

In 1966, Rusher together with Max Yergan became co-chairmen of the American-African Affairs Association (AAAA), which lobbied the United States to recognize Rhodesia. A major theme of the publications of the American-African Affairs Association was the black opponents of Rhodesia were controlled by either the Soviet Union or China, and to allow majority rule in Rhodesia would thus allow Communism to be established there. In a letter to the editor of The Nation in 1967, Rusher admitted that an overlap in topics and themes expressed by the AAAA and the Rhodesian Information Office was due to the fact that AAAA shared the same offices at 79 Madison Avenue in New York as the public relations firm of Marvin Liebman Associates, which had been hired by the Information Office to improve Rhodesia's image in America. As a part of his efforts to assist Rhodesia, Rusher introduced Kenneth Towsey, the head of the New York office of the Rhodesian Information Office, to various media personalities where Towsey made his case that Rhodesia, which was often pillared in the United States for its white supremacist policies, was just being misunderstood by the American media.

Beginning in the late 1950s and continuing well past his retirement from National Review at the end of the 1980s, Rusher was a very active public speaker on college campuses and in other forums, where he defended and advocated the conservative position. In the early 1970s, he was the main conservative representative on a PBS television debate show, The Advocates, which also featured the later governor of Massachusetts, Michael S. Dukakis, the 1988 Democratic presidential nominee. Rusher was also a commentator on ABC-TV's Good Morning America in the late 1970s and a regular radio commentator in the 1980s. Throughout Rusher's career, he was known as an aggressive and exceptionally skilled debater. However, in a 1971 debate, Rusher faced formidable opposition in linguist and prominent anti-war activist MIT professor Noam Chomsky; Rusher repeatedly interrupted Chomsky, who calmly and assertively answered his questions.

In the middle 1970s, Rusher was among the most prominent advocates for a conservative third party, or as he called it "new majority party," that would replace the Republicans; he was also involved heavily in efforts to organize such a party. He repeatedly and unsuccessfully urged Reagan, whom he had known since the late 1960s, to lead this effort and to agree to accept such a party's nomination.

Although he was a "fusionist" conservative who believed in both small-government and socially-conservative positions, Rusher was greatly concerned with unifying the movement and keeping it unified. He believed that Ronald Reagan, whom he promoted as a possible presidential candidate as early as 1967 and in whose reluctant campaign for the Republican nomination in 1968 he had some involvement, was the ideal leader for this purpose. Rusher also believed that the Reagan presidency was the conservatives' greatest political achievement.

In terms of issues, he was heavily motivated by anti-communism throughout his career, was an outspoken opponent of the 1960s counterculture, and took a special interest in what he considered pervasive liberal bias in the news media. As an adult he was baptized and became a Traditional Anglican, although his religious views rarely entered into his political discourse.

In 1976, Rusher together with Marvin Liebman and a former CIA officer, David Atlee Phillips, founded a new pro-Rhodesian lobbying group, the American-Rhodesian Association, whose object was having the U.S. recognize Rhodesia. Despite its public claim to be working independently of Rhodesia, the American-Rhodesian Association worked closely with the Information Office of the Rhodesian government. In 1978, Rusher visited Chile, where he praised the regime of General Augusto Pinochet, saying he was "unable to find a single opponent of the regime in Chile (as distinguished from New York) who believes the Chilean government engages in torture". Rusher also wrote about the status of political prisoners that "about four thousand Allende sympathizers were prosecuted and convicted of specific crimes after the 1973 coup", of which all "but a dozen were sent into exile abroad or were jailed". Finally, he argued that even if the Pinochet regime had violated human rights, it did not matter because the regime was "creating a powerful and truly sinewy Chilean economy" and "sacrifices to this end are very much worth making".

Rusher wrote five books: Special Counsel (1968), a memoir of his time on the Internal Security Subcommittee; The Making of the New Majority Party (1975), in which he advocated the establishment of a new conservative party to replace the Republicans in the post-Watergate period;  How to Win Arguments (1981), a primer of debating techniques; The Rise of the Right (1984), a history of the conservative movement from the 1950s to the early 1980s, re-released in 1993 with an appendix covering more recent developments;  and The Coming Battle for the Media (1988).

At times, Rusher doubted the GOP could ever be converted to true conservatism, and spent some of his career unsuccessfully trying to jump-start a conservative third party.

Retirement
Rusher retired from National Review at age 65 at the end of 1988. The following year, he moved from New York to San Francisco. In California, Rusher served actively as a distinguished fellow of the Claremont Institute from 1989 onward. He also served as a board member of the conservative California Political Review, and was for many years the chairman of the board of the Media Research Center, an anti-bias organization founded and led by L. Brent Bozell III. In addition, Rusher was involved with the Ashbrook Center for Public Affairs, the Pacific Research Institute, and the Pacific Legal Foundation.

He was in the news during the hearings for the Samuel Alito Supreme Court nomination in 2005, when he allowed Senate staff members to inspect documents related to the Concerned Alumni of Princeton group, in which Alito was tangentially involved, in the Rusher Papers at the Library of Congress. Rusher retired from his newspaper column, which he had written since 1973 under the title "The Conservative Advocate," in February 2009. After more than half a year of ill health, he died in April 2011 in an assisted living home in San Francisco. He never married and had no survivors.

Books

 * Special Counsel. New Rochelle, NY: Arlington House, 1968.
 * How to Win Arguments More Often Than Not. New York: Doubleday, 1981. ISBN 978-0385152556.
 * The Rise of the Right. New York: Morrow, 1984. ISBN 978-0688019365.
 * The Coming Battle for the Media: Curbing the Power of the Media Elite. New York: Morrow, 1988. ISBN 978-0688064334.

Articles

 * "The Vindication of American Anti-Communism" (Review Essay). Orbis, Vol. 40, No. 4, Autumn 1996, pp. 627–637..

title: William A. Rusher


text:
Talk:Convergence of Fourier series

I think that convergence of Fourier series is not useless for engineers. In fact Fourier series and Fourier transform is used in signals compression (for example JPEG or MP3) in this contexts it's very important to know in which sense the information is reconstructed. Musical signals, for example, can be seen as functions with finite energy (L^1 and L^2)(is a function of the time which has a compact support and is in L^00) and a compact spectrum so it’s possible to represent their information (which has the power of the continuum) with discrete series. Moreover we can cut a part of this series and a part of the spectrum of the signal to obtain an MP3. (Using spectral analysis techniques). Gibbs phenomenon can be seen when we compress pictures made of color spots with sharp outlines (the ending titles of a DiVX) so to compress animated cartoons is better not to use a method related with Fourier series (for example we can use GIF).

 * ... a function of the time which has a compact support ... and a compact spectrum is a contradiction. Any nonzero function which is compactly supported has necessarely unbounded spectrum and any function with compact spectrum has necessarely unbounded support. This is a very elementary version of the uncertainty principle in harmonic analysis. The Fourier transform for jpegs and mp3s can be viewed strictly in the discrete context, in which case the convergence is moot (since the Fourier series is a finite sum.) The remaining comments do not pertain to the convergence of Fourier series. Loisel 14:06, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Mistake in formula?
I'm not confident enough to make this change myself. Someone who knows more please do this:

Under "Summability" the first summation says "summation of A sub n" but I believe that should be "A sub k."

Uniform convergence
Should we say something about when Fourier series converge uniformly? (I don't know the details off the top of my head, else I would do it.) -- Walt Pohl (talk) 02:35, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Dirichlet's proof?
Where does Dirichlet's line of proof fit into all this? The text of it is at http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.1294 --Ayacop (talk) 08:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Dirichlet made an important historical contribution, as well as Jordan, Wilbraham, Riemann, Cantor, etc.. A more detailed history is available in the French version of the Fourier Series article, see http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=S%C3%A9rie_de_Fourier&oldid=30788202 and search for Dirichlet. Loisel (talk) 07:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Periodicity of f?
The original definition of a trigonometric series does not require f to be periodic. This is reflected in the convergence criteria. For example, a function of bounded variation or a function with existing left and right derivatives does not need to be periodic. It would be good to add a paragraph that explains where this periodicity requirment comes from and when it is necessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.14.32.206 (talk) 15:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Weak convergence
It might be nice to have a section on weak convergence of the Fourier series, i.e. in the distribution sense, and the fact that the series converges for every periodic distribution in this sense. (This is arguably the sense that is used in most practical contexts nowadays, as Fourier series usually come hand-in-hand with other distribution concepts such as delta functions. It also gives a concrete way to understand "almost everywhere" convergence, since finite errors on sets of measure zero obviously don't affect weak convergence.) — Steven G. Johnson (talk) 16:00, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Deleted content from Fourier inversion theorem - suitable for here?
Fourier transforms of square-integrable functions

Plancherel theorem allows the Fourier transform to be extended to a unitary operator on the Hilbert space of all square-integrable functions, i.e., all functions satisfying

 * $$\int_{-\infty}^\infty\left|f(x)\right|^2\,dx<\infty.$$

Therefore it is invertible on L2.

In case f is a square-integrable periodic function on the interval $$[-\pi, \pi]$$, it has a Fourier series whose coefficients are

 * $$\widehat{f}(n)=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^\pi f(x)\,e^{-inx}\,dx.$$

The Fourier inversion theorem might then say that

 * $$\sum_{n=-\infty}^{\infty} \widehat{f}(n)\,e^{inx}=f(x).$$

What kind of convergence is right? "Convergence in mean square" can be proved fairly easily:

 * $$\lim_{N\rightarrow\infty}\int_{-\pi}^\pi\left|f(x)-\sum_{n=-N}^{N} \widehat{f}(n)\,e^{inx}\right|^2\,dx=0.$$

What about convergence almost everywhere? That would say that if f is square-integrable, then for "almost every" value of x between 0 and 2π we have

 * $$f(x)=\lim_{N\rightarrow\infty}\sum_{n=-N}^{N} \widehat{f}(n)\,e^{inx}.$$

This was not proved until 1966 in (Carleson, 1966).

For strictly finitary discrete Fourier transforms, these delicate questions of convergence are avoided.

 * Lennart Carleson (1966). On the convergence and growth of partial sums of Fourier series. Acta Math. 116, 135–157.

Hi, I'm about to delete the above material from the Fourier inversion theorem article, because it's about Fourier series whereas the article is about Fourier transforms. If it belongs anywhere then it would be in this article, so I'm posting it here in case someone wants to integrate it into this article. By the way, feel free to join the discussion about the proposed changes to that article. Quietbritishjim (talk) 01:16, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Uniform convergence condition wrong?
I do not have access to Jackson's book, so could someone else double-check the formula for the speed of uniform convergence? If f is a polynomial of degree p then $$f^{(p)}$$ has a modulus of continuity which is identically zero. But clearly the approximation error will not be zero for any finite N. The claimed formula is also wrong when N=1, since the RHS is zero, but maybe that can be fixed by stating it is valid for large N. 193.11.79.122 (talk) 13:38, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Summability and Fejer
I think one should add in the section on summability that the uniform convergence by Fejer's theorem only holds for continuous, periodic functions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.199.55.147 (talk) 14:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Pretty sure uniform convergence bound is wrong
I looked up the convergence bound in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergence_of_Fourier_series#Uniform_convergence which cites the book "Introduction To Classical Real Analysis". It's not stated explicitly in the book. Also, the claim can't be right. For instance, consider $$f(x) = 1000\cos(1000x)$$. The function satisfies the $$\alpha$$-Hölder condition for $$\alpha=1$$ but the inequality given is clearly false:
 * $$|f(x)-(S_Nf)(x)|\le K {\ln N\over N^\alpha}.$$

The value of $$K$$ is not stated anywhere. Whatever value $$K$$ supposed to take, change the coefficient 1000 above to 1,000,000 or 1,000,000,000 - it's bound to be wrong eventually. --Svennik (talk) 20:32, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Discussion
The proposition that the family of absolutely converging Fourier series is a Banach Algebra is wrong, It is a vectorial space which is not complete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boutarfa Nafia (talk • contribs) 09:26, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

 * It is known as a Banach algebra with ordinary pointwise multiplication of functions, but its own norm which is not that of uniform convergence like for the space of continuous functions. Look in literature about the Wiener algebra, e.g. the article about it in wikipedia--UKe-CH (talk) 17:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

About the case of an absolutely continuous function
As Y. Katznelson shows in his textbook: when f is absolutely continuous, n times its n-th Fourier coefficient is not only bounded (as currently says this article with other words) but tends to 0 with n -> oo. Could someone change the article for this? UKe-CH (talk) 18:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Convergence of Fourier series


text:
Talk:Chaga people

Content removed
They are known as the Jews of Tanzania.
 * Please provide a good citation for this claim. --Viriditas | Talk 10:39, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Population
Can a source be cited for the recent change of the population number from 800,000 to 2,000,000? — mark ✎ 18:20, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

2 million is not a tribe
Tribe seems to apply to Africa, but never to Europe, how can 2 million people be a tribe.?--217.42.172.17 (talk) 10:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

wachaga
Dear, I would like to know why wachaga were called so, where did the name originate from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.222.56.185 (talk) 09:28, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Missing information on the (former) rites of initiation
The article contains close to no information on the Chaga's ancient rites of initiation, such as the famous anal plugging of males (or much rather, the roles and treatment of excrement amongst the genders in general). One potential source could be O. F. Raum's "Chaga Childhood", first published in 1939; its chapter "Female Initiation among the Chaga" is freely available here. -- 91.11.196.116 (talk) 17:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

File:Chaga hut noadj.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Chaga hut noadj.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on November 8, 2010. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2010-11-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks!  howcheng  {chat} 00:38, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Notable chaggans image
In the Notable Chaggans section, there's an image depicting several unnamed people with the caption "Various Notable Chaggans". Well, who are they? There's no further description, also on the image description page... Gestumblindi (talk) 03:55, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://books.google.com/books?id=m0dalboHfXgC&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=lifestyle%20through%20%22colonisation%22&f=false A Modern History of Tanganyika, John Iliffe, 1979, page 101. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. 70.253.82.77 (talk) 07:20, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Dubious unsourced claims about extensive economic development and coffee growing during German colonial times?
Currently reads as "These developments parallel the major political reorganization effectuated by colonization and the fundamental change in the local economy. Long-distance trade became a European monopoly. Coffee growing spread rapidly over the mountain. This general economic transformation was well under way when the colonial government passed from German hands into those of the British in 1916."

This appears to directly conflict with the sourced paper "A COLONIAL DILEMMA: BRITISH POLICYAND THE COLONIAL ECONOMY OF TANGANYIKA 1918-1938" at https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/handle/1885/112143

"Within Tanganyika the case of the Chagga indicated the problems of the native reserve. The tribe had been crowded onto the upper slopes of Kilimanjaro by land alienations in German times, and were thus formed into an unofficial but effective reserve by the European farms on the lower slopes. The Chagga proved unsuitable for plantation labour on the damp and humid plains and the tribe was short of land and under-employed by local settlers. They formed the threat of an "idle discontented population" poised above the areas of greatest European settlement. In the interest both of security and state revenues, the senior District Commissioner Charles Dundas encouraged the cultivation of arabic coffee by the Chaggaas a means of binding the cultivator to the soil and providing an outlet for "legitimate aspirations". Arabica coffee was a settler crop in East Africa andlocal settlers protested strongly to the administration and to the Colonial Office. The latter dismissed the settlers as "mostly Greeks". The Tanganyika administration had little choice. Coffee was the only lucrative cash crop that could be grown on the limited areas in the mountains. Its cultivation was a sure means of involving the Chagga in the colonial economy and maintaining the authority of the colonial state. The quest for security took precedence over the protests of settlers."

Chagga or Chaga?
Both spellings are used in the article. Wouldn't it be better to just use one or the other? Martin Liversage (talk) 08:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 * CHAGGA is the right one. But also its not a problem using the other. 197.186.4.214 (talk) 10:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chaga people


text:
Mauzac

Mauzac may refer to:

 * Mauzac (grape), a grape variety mainly grown in the Limoux and Gaillac regions near Toulouse in France
 * Mauzac noir, another wine grape that is grown in Southwest France
 * Mauzac, Haute-Garonne, a commune of the Haute-Garonne département in France
 * Mauzac-et-Grand-Castang, a commune in the Dordogne department in Nouvelle-Aquitaine in southwestern France

title: Mauzac


text: User talk:81.131.121.133

title: User talk:81.131.121.133


text:
Talk:Champasak province

Untitled
I created a stub for the na Champassak family. m.e. 10:42, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Changed name of article
I believe the original "Champassack" is not the most common transliteration in English. It is certainly not the most commonly used in guides and transliterations in Laos and a basic Google query supports my view. As of 2009-06, an "English only" query yields the following:
 * +champassack - 6 520 results
 * +champassak - 35 300 "
 * +champasak - 150 000 ".

As a result, I have moved the article to "Champasak Province". Champasak (town) was already named according to that convention.

Rdavout (talk) 10:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Champasak province


text:
Hélie de Saint Marc

Hélie Denoix de Saint Marc or Hélie de Saint Marc, (11 February 1922 – 26 August 2013) was a senior member of the French Resistance and a senior active officer of the French Army, having served in the French Foreign Legion, in particular at the heart and corps of the Foreign Airborne Battalions and Regiments, the heirs of the 2nd Foreign Parachute Regiment 2ème REP, a part constituent of the 11th Parachute Brigade. Commandant by interim of the 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment 1er REP (disbanded in 1961), Hélie assumed full responsibility for commanding exclusively his regiment towards the Generals' Putsch in April 1961 and would be charged for such action while also distancing accusations that would compromise the integrity of the men acting under his direct orders of command. He was rehabilitated within his civilian and military rights in 1978 and awarded the high distinction of the Grand-Croix of the Legion of Honor on 28 November 2011.

Resistance and deportation
Hélie de Saint Marc entered the French resistance (network resistance of Jade-Amicol) in February 1941, at the age of 19 after assisting in Bordeaux at the arrival of the Army and French Authorities when the country was fully engaged in its events. He was stopped on the 14th of July 1943 at the Spanish borders and following a denunciation; he was deported to German Concentration Camp at Buchenwald.

Sent to the Satellite Camp of Langenstein-Zwieberge for 2 years where mortality rates surpasses 90%; he went under mainly two cares and protection including a Latvian miner who actually saved his life the second time. The Latvian miner was in good shape and shared with Hélie food which he stole. Later, When the camp was liberated by U.S. American Forces; Hélie de Saint Marc was found unconscious in the barracks of the dead. Hélie had lost his memory and even forgot his own name recovering later in an American hospital. He was found among 30 living survivors only out of the 1000 deported to that camp.

At the end of World War II, at the age of 23, Hélie pursues his education at Saint-Cyr Military Academy.

First Indochina War
Hélie de Saint Marc deployed to French Indochina in 1948 with the French Foreign Legion along the 4e REM then at the disposition of the 3rd Foreign Infantry Regiment 3ème REI. He lived just like the Vietnamese partisans; learning their language and talking for long hours with Viêt-minh prisoners; trying to understand their motivation and their ways of conducting battle. Commandant of the intervention company in the high regions, he was in charge to recruit, instruct and command autochthones partisans in operations and mainly protect the respective civilian populations undergoing hostile effects.

Stationed at Tà Lùng, at the borders of China, among the minority people of Tho; he faced the loss of the post at the border taken by the Chinese Communist Party. In China, troops of Mao Zedong recently defeated the Nationalist Party; mainly Tchang Kai-check and were soon to dominate their Vietnamese neighbors. The war was about to take a major turn. The French Army suffered heavy losses. After 18 months, Hélie de Saint Marc and the French military were evacuated, with almost none of the partisans, and none of the villagers. "There is an order, you don't make an omelet without breaking eggs"; officials replied to Hélie when he questioned them about the fate of the villagers.

Hélie's unit was obliged to give "coups de crosse" ("crosse" refers the rifle butt). His unit rifle-butted the fingers of villagers and partisans trying to climb aboard the departing trucks. In his words "We abandoned them". Those that survived and managed to join the departing French troops talked about the massacre of those that aided the French. He called his memory of rifle butting the fingers of his allies his "yellow wound" and remained very disturbed about the abandonment of Vietnamese partisans following the orders of High Command.

Hélie returned a second time to Indochina in 1951 with the 2nd Foreign Parachute Battalion 2ème BEP, shortly after the disaster of Battle of Route Coloniale 4 (RC4) in October 1950, which annihilated the total of the 1st Foreign Parachute Battalion 1er BEP. He commanded the 2e CIPLE Battalion (2nd Company of Vietnamese Parachute of the French Foreign Legion). During this deployment, he served with Chef de battaillon Rémy Raffalli, regimental commander of the 2nd Foreign Parachute Battalion 2ème BEP, Adjudant Bonnin and Général Jean Joseph Marie Gabriel de Lattre de Tassigny, the High Commissioner, Commander-in-Chief in Indochina and Commander-in Chief of the French Far East Expeditionary Corps.

In 1953, Hélie then served in the 11e Régiment Parachutiste de Choc. By definition, there was no information on this passage, however it was probable that he remained in Indochina.

Hélie then integrated the ranks of the 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment 1e REP in 1954 and partook in the final combats of Indochina. The 1e REP was repatriated to Zéralda in the departments of Algeria while commanded by Pierre Jeanpierre. During that time, Hélie was designated as a company commandant.

Suez Crisis
In 1956, Hélie partook with the 1e REP to the Suez Crisis.

Algerian War and the Generals' Putsch
Recruited by Général Challe, Hélie de Saint Marc served during the Algerian War; notably alongside General Massu. In April 1961, he participated with the 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment 1er REP which he commanded by interim to the Generals' Putsch; directed by General Challe in Algeria. The operation failed and within a couple of days Hélie de Saint Marc handed himself over as prisoner and taking full responsibility of the actions of the men under his command. He also made it clear not to question the integrity of his legionnaires as well as assuming sole responsibility for the outcome of the failed putsch.

As Hélie de Saint Marc explained at the court-martial trial of the foremost Military Tribunal on 5 June 1961, his decision to challenge as illegal the political decision to grant Algerian independence was essentially motivated by his wish not to abandon the harkis, recruited by the French Army to fight against the NLF; not to mention his total unwillingness to relive his difficult experience in Indochina. He agreed to support the April 1961 "Generals' Putsch" against President Charles de Gaulle. The putschists saw de Gaulle's acceptance of Algerian independence as a betrayal of France and a betrayal of the local population both indigenous and French colonial; particularly, French Colonial Regiments. The officers in revolt had seen exactly this behavior in Indochina among the Colonial Parachute Battalions and felt that this had to stop. As the putsch failed due to lack of political support, Hélie de Saint-Marc was condemned to 10 years criminal reclusion which can go from 10 to 30 years or life. He spent 5 years in the prison at Tulle before being pardoned on December 25, 1966.

During that time; Legionnaires from the French Foreign Legion acquired their parade song "Non, je ne regrette rien" (No, I don't regret anything), a 1960 Edith Piaf song that NCOs, Corporals and Legionnaires sang while marching out of their barracks for re-deployment following the Algiers putsch of 1961. The song has been a part of Legion heritage since then. The 2nd Foreign Parachute Regiment 2ème REP remained the only foreign parachute regiment in the French Army.

1960s
Following his pardon, he settled in Lyon with the help of Andre Laroche, the president of the deportation Federation and started a civilian career in the metal industry. In 1988, he became Director of personnel in a metal company.

By 1978, he was rehabilitated with full civil and military rights.

In 1988, one of his grand nephews, Laurent Beccaria, wrote his biography which turned to be a success. Accordingly, he decided to write his own autobiography which he published in 1995 under the title of "Les Champs de Braises. Mémoires" and which was crowned by the Prize Femina categories "Essay" in 1996. During 10 years, Hélie de Saint-Marc spent his time travelling to the United States, Germany and France and conducted numerous conferences. In 1998 and 2000, German translation and versions appeared for Champs de braises (Asche und Glut) and the Sentinelles du soir (Die Wächter des Abends) at the Atlantis editions.

In 2002, he published with August von Kageneck- a German Officer of his generation- his fourth book entitled Notre Histoire (1922-1945) ("Our History: 1922-1945"); a story that portrayed the souvenirs of that period; portraying their respective childhood and their vision of World War II.

At age 57; Hélie was decorated and awarded with the commander of the Légion d'honneur on 23 June 1979 by French President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing.

At age 80; Hélie was decorated and awarded with the grand-officer of the Légion d'honneur on 28 November 2002 by French President Jacques Chirac.

At 89 years of age; Hélie de Saint Marc was finally recognized and awarded the Grand-Croix de la Légion d'honneur, on 28 November 2011, by French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

Funeral
Hélie de Saint Marc died on 26 August 2013. His funeral was conducted on 30 August by Philippe Barbarin, cardinal-archbishop of Lyon in the Lyon Cathedral in presence of the mayor of Lyon, general Bertrand Ract-Madoux, Chief of Staff of the French Army, representing the French Minister of Defense Jean-Yves Le Drian. Military Honors were pronounced and honored by general Bruno Dary at Place Saint-Jean. Hélie was laid to rest at la Garde-Adhémar (Drôme).

Decorations

 * Grand Croix of the Légion d'honneur, 28 November 2011
 * Grand Officer of the Légion d'honneur, 28 November 2002
 * Commandeur of the Légion d'honneur, 23 June 1978
 * Croix de guerre 1939-1945 (1 citation)
 * Croix de guerre des théâtres d'opérations extérieures (8 citations)
 * Croix de la Valeur Militaire (4 citations)
 * Médaille des Evadés
 * Médaille de la Résistance
 * Croix du combattant volontaire de la Résistance
 * Croix du combattant
 * Colonial Medal with "Far East" clasp
 * Médaille commémorative de la guerre 1939–1945
 * Medal of deportation and detention for acts of resistance
 * Commemorative Medal of the Indochina Campaign
 * Commemorative Medal of Middle East Operations
 * Commemorative Medal of Security and Maintaining Order Operations in North Africa with "Algerian" and "Tunisian" clasps
 * Wounded soldiers badge (x2)
 * Order of Civil Merit Sip Hoc Chau Thai, Officer

Posthumous Hommage
Since 15 March 2015 a road bears his name in Béziers.

Quotations attributed to de Saint Marc

 * " Si on doit un jour ne plus comprendre comment un homme a pu donner sa vie pour quelque chose qui le dépasse, ce sera fini de tout un monde, peut-être de toute une civilisation."

English Translation: If in one day, we may come to not understand how a man could have given his life for something which surpasses him, this would be the end of a world, perhaps the end of an entire civilization.

 * Extrait de Que dire à un jeune de vingt ans... "À mon jeune interlocuteur, Je dirai donc que nous vivons une période difficile, où les bases de ce qu'on appelait la Morale et qu'on appelle aujourd'hui l'Éthique, sont remises constamment en cause, en particulier dans les domaines du don de la vie, de la manipulation de la vie, de l'interruption de la vie. Dans ces domaines, de terribles questions nous attendent dans les décennies à venir. Oui nous vivons une période difficile où l'individualisme systématique, le profit à n'importe quel prix, le matérialisme, l'emportent sur les forces de l'esprit."

English Translation: Extract of what to tell to a twenty year old...'' I would say then that we live in a difficult period, where the corps bases of what is referred to as Moral that which is referred to today as the Ethics, are constantly being placed in cause, in particular in the domain of life, the manipulation of life, and the interruption of life. In these domains, terrible questions await us in the decades to come. Indeed, we live in a challenging period where systematic individualism, profit and the materials, are the dominant forces of the human spirit''.

 * Extrait de Que dire à un jeune de vingt ans..." Enfin, je lui dirai que de toutes les vertus, la plus importante, parce qu'elle est motrice de toutes les autres et qu'elle est nécessaire à l'exercice des autres, de toutes les vertus, la plus importante me paraît être le courage, les courages, et surtout celui dont on ne parle pas et qui consiste à être fidèle à ses rêves de jeunesse. Et pratiquer ce courage, ces courages, c'est peut-être cela « L'Honneur de Vivre »."

English Translation: Extract of what to tell to a twenty year old...'' Finally, I would say that of all virtues, the most important, since it is the driving force of and the most necessary to exercise all other virtues, the most important seems for me that of courage, courages, and specially the one which is not talked about and which consists of remaining faithfully loyal to the dreams during the years of youth. Applying this courage, these courages, perhaps that such is the « Honor of living »''.

Publications

 * Les Champs de braises. Mémoires with Laurent Beccaria, édition Perrin, 1995, (ISBN 2262011184), Prix littéraire de l'armée de terre - Erwan Bergot in 1995, Prix Femina essai in 1996.
 * Les Sentinelles du soir, édition Les Arènes, 1999, (ISBN 2912485029)
 * Indochine, notre guerre orpheline, édition Les Arènes, 2000, (ISBN 2912485207)
 * Notre histoire (1922-1945) with August von Kageneck, conversations recueillies par Étienne de Montety, édition Les Arènes, 2002, (ISBN 2912485347)
 * Die Wächter des Abends, Édition Atlantis, 2000, (ISBN 3932711513)
 * Asche und Glut. Erinnerungen. Résistance und KZ Buchenwald. Fallschirmjäger der Fremdenlegion. Indochina und Algerienkrieg. Putsch gegen de Gaulle, Édition Atlantis, 1998, 2003, (ISBN 3932711505)
 * Toute une vie ou Paroles d'Hélie de Saint Marc written in collaboration with Laurent Beccaria, volume comprenant un CD audio d'émission radiophonique, édition Les Arènes, 2004, (ISBN 2912485770)
 * La Guerre d'Algérie 1954-1962, with Patrick Buisson, foreword by Michel Déon (with DVD), Albin Michel, 2009 (ISBN 222618175X)
 * PDF Lettre à la jeunesse by Hélie de Saint Marc
 * L’Aventure et l’Espérance, édition Les Arènes, 2010, (ISBN 9782352040910)
 * Lettre à la jeunesse (Letter to the youth) d'Hélie de Saint Marc

Documentaries

 * Patrick Jeudy, Un homme d’honneur ( A Man of Honor), produit par Françoise Castro, 52 min. France 2, la Cinquième et Planète. 1996.
 * Alain de Sédouy, « Le dernier engagement » ( The Last Engagement) d’Hélie de Saint Marc Édition ECPAD, 2008.
 * Georges Mourier, Servir ? – Hélie de Saint Marc ( Service ?), Coll. Le choix des hommes, 52 min, Édition À l’image près, 2008.

title: Hélie de Saint Marc


text:
Canens

Canens may refer to:

 * Canens (mythology), in Roman mythology, the personification of song, a nymph from Latium
 * Canens, Haute-Garonne, a commune in France

title: Canens


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Archive (disambiguation)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep, since this nomination (which wasn't done properly) went hand-in-hand with Votes for deletion/Archive (band) and implicitly relied upon that being deleted. Uncle G 20:46, 2005 Mar 14 (UTC)

Archive (disambiguation)
This disambiguation page, merely serves as a place to point towards Archive (band).

 * Keep, since the Archive article is encyclopaedic, and more than simply a word definition. Now that the Archive (band) page has been preserved, the disambiguation page is still relevant. If anyone disagrees, the issue is primarily with the Archive page. 217.43.23.203 21:24, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Zoriah Miller

Zoriah Miller (born January 27, 1976), or simply Zoriah, is an American photojournalist and war photographer. He has worked for international aid organizations such as the Red Cross before returning to photography after a long absence. Although having contributed photos to photo agencies World Picture News, The Image Works, Reporters Agency, and Rapport Press, Miller remains independent and produces his photo stories on a freelance basis.

Miller's images of conflict in Iraq have been published in relation to a controversy where he was kicked out of embed with US forces when he was accused of violating the terms of his embedding by taking pictures of dead and injured soldiers and thereby "[providing the] enemy with an after-action report on the effectiveness of their attack and on the response procedures of U.S. and Iraqi forces". Photographs that he took in Iraq of dead US Marines after a suicide bomber in Al-Karmah that he posted on his website were widely discussed and brought to light the issue of wartime censorship.

Awards, honors and achievements
Although working as a photographer from a young age, Miller's career did not take off until late 2005 when a photograph of his showing one result of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami was published by Newsweek.

Miller was named Photojournalist Of The Year by the Morepraxis Organization in 2006 primarily for his work documenting the conflict in Gaza.

In January 2010, Miller won the PhotoPhilanthropy Activist Award for his work on famine in Africa.

Photography
Miller says he specializes in documenting humanitarian crises

In a one-hour television program, as part of the In Harm's Way series about different dangerous professions produced by Warner Brothers. Miller explains in the Gaza Strip in 2008, what has motivated him to become a war photographer and to take photographs in disaster areas.

In March 2010, Miller conducted a photography workshop in Haiti during a humanitarian crisis. There was controversy over the event on forums such as Lightstalkers.org. http://zoriah.com/workshops

Video

 * Miller interview on Democracy Now! program, July 14, 2008.

Audio

 * PhotoNetCast Interview" – with Miller on the radio program PhotoNetCast

title: Zoriah Miller


text:
Palmetto

Palmetto (meaning "little palm") may refer to:

Palms
Several small palms in the Arecaceae (palm tree) family:
 * in the genus Sabal:
 * Bermuda palmetto, Sabal bermudana
 * Birmingham palmetto, Sabal 'Birmingham'
 * Cabbage palmetto, Sabal palmetto
 * Dwarf, or bush palmetto, Sabal minor
 * Hispaniola palmetto, Sabal domingensis
 * Jamaica palmetto, Sabal maritima
 * Mexican, Texas, or Rio Grande palmetto, Sabal mexicana
 * Miami palmetto, Sabal miamiensis
 * Puerto Rico palmetto, Sabal causiarum
 * Rosei palmetto, Sabal rosei
 * Royal palmetto, Sabal pumos
 * Scrub palmetto, Sabal etonia
 * Sonoran palmetto, Sabal uresana
 * Yucatán palmetto, Sabal gretheriae
 * Palmetto, Chamaerops humilis, native to Europe and north Africa
 * Saw palmetto, Serenoa repens, native to North America

Places

 * Palmetto, Alabama
 * Palmetto, California
 * Palmetto, Florida
 * Palmetto Bay, Florida
 * Palmetto Beach, neighborhood in Tampa, Florida
 * Palmetto Estates, Florida
 * Palmetto Historic District
 * Palmetto, Georgia
 * Palmetto, Oglethorpe County, Georgia
 * Palmetto, Louisiana
 * Palmetto, Missouri
 * Palmetto, Nevada, a ghost town

Schools

 * Miami Palmetto High School in Pinecrest, Florida
 * Palmetto Bay Academy in Miami, Florida
 * Palmetto High School (Florida) in Palmetto, Florida
 * Palmetto High School (South Carolina) in Williamston, South Carolina
 * Palmetto Ridge High School in Naples, Florida
 * Palmetto State e-Cademy, a virtual public charter school in South Carolina

Transportation

 * Palmetto (train), an Amtrak passenger train in the United States
 * Palmetto (ACL train), a former ACL passenger train in the United States
 * Palmetto (Metrorail station) in Miami, Florida
 * Palmetto Railroad, former railroad in North Carolina and South Carolina
 * Palmetto Railway, former railroad in North Carolina and South Carolina
 * Palmetto Trail, foot and bike trail in South Carolina
 * The Palmetto Expressway, Florida State Road 826

Entertainment

 * Palmetto (film), a 1998 neo-noir
 * Palmetto Records, an American jazz record label founded in 1990
 * Palmetto State Quartet, a gospel group from Greenville, South Carolina
 * "The Palmetto State Song", a 1860 song popular during the American Civil War
 * Palmetto Pointe, a 2005 TV show
 * Palmetto Leaves, an 1873 memoir by Harriet Beecher Stowe

Other

 * Palmetto State, the official nickname for the state of South Carolina
 * Palmetto (crater), of the moon
 * Palmetto Cheese, brand of pimento cheese
 * Palmetto Electric
 * Palmetto FC Bantams, amateur soccer team in Greenwood, South Carolina
 * Order of the Palmetto, the highest civilian honor awarded by the governor of South Carolina
 * Palmetto Regiment, military unit of volunteers from South Carolina serving in the Mexican–American War
 * CSS Palmetto State, an 1862 Confederate ironclad ship
 * Palmetto Island State Park, Louisiana
 * Palmetto State Park, Gonzales County, Texas
 * Palmetto Mountains, range in Nevada
 * Palmetto Health Baptist Columbia, South Carolina
 * Palmetto Health Richland, hospital network in Columbia, South Carolina
 * Palmetto Health, hospital network in Richland County, South Carolina
 * Florida woods cockroach, a.k.a. Palmetto bug, different species from American cockroach
 * Palmetto Skipper, Euphyes arpa, a butterfly
 * Palmetto Pass, an electronic toll collection system in South Carolina

title: Palmetto


text:
Category:Embryology

Embryology is the subdivision of developmental biology that studies embryos and their development.

title: Category:Embryology