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Russ Abbot

Russell Allan Abbot (born Roberts; 18 September 1947) is an English musician, actor and comedian. Born in Chester, he first came to public notice during the 1970s as the singer and drummer with British comedy showband the Black Abbots, later forging a prominent solo career as a television comedian with his own weekly show on British television.

Continuing his musical career as a solo artist, Abbot released several charting singles and albums. His career has continued with a shift into more mainstream serious acting in television shows, series, and stage productions.

Career
As a drummer/backing singer, Abbot joined the Black Abbots (founded by Robert Turner) in Chester during the mid-1960s and they released several singles to modest chart success on minor labels in the early 1970s. The band only signed their first major recording contract in 1977, putting out a series of comedy singles and one live album (Abbot now taking lead vocals) before disbanding in 1980. Subsequently, he appeared as a comedian, winning the 'Funniest Man on Television' award five times. Abbot appeared on the television show The Comedians under his birth name (Russ Roberts). From 1980 onward, he released some albums as a solo artist and appeared in several TV series. The most successful of his music singles, "Atmosphere", did well in the UK top 10, peaking at No. 7 in 1985.

Russ Abbot's Madhouse and The Russ Abbot Show showcased his talents as an all-round entertainer, attracting millions of viewers. This show was top-rated among younger viewers, prompting two annuals to be published in 1982–83. These annuals featured comic strips based on popular characters, plus some publicity photos of Abbot in a variety of guises, including his well-known James Bond satire featuring characters named Basildon Bond and Miss Funnyfanny (based on the fictional MI6 spy duo James Bond and Miss Moneypenny).

In January 1993, Abbot hosted an Elvis special of Stars in Their Eyes; this was originally to be presented by Leslie Crowther, who had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in his Rolls-Royce in October 1992. Abbot was brought in as a temporary host, and this was the only episode he hosted. Crowther was unable to return, and died in 1996; he was replaced by Matthew Kelly, who then hosted the show until 2004.

From 2000, Abbot played the lead role in the British National Tour of Doctor Dolittle. Taking a break over the Christmas period, Abbot stepped down for Phillip Schofield to take the part but returned to the tour subsequently. In 2003, his "See You Jimmy" character (called C. U. Jimmy) came third in the Glasgow Herald ' s poll to find the most Scottish person in the world, behind Iain and Jimmy Krankie.

Abbot's theatre roles include Alfred P. Doolittle in My Fair Lady (starring Amy Nuttall) at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane and on tour; The Narrator in The Rocky Horror Show; Grandpa Potts in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang at the London Palladium and Fagin in Oliver! both in 1998 and 2009.

From July 2007, he took over the role of Roger De Bris in the UK tour of Mel Brooks' The Producers. In 2008, Abbot appeared as the Tin Man in the stage production of The Wizard of Oz at the Mayflower Theatre, Southampton.

In 2008, the BBC announced that Abbot would be joining the cast of Last of the Summer Wine for the show's 30th series. He played Luther 'Hobbo' Hobdyke, who was the leader of a group consisting also of Entwistle, played by Burt Kwouk and Alvin, played by Brian Murphy.

In 2008, he guest-starred in The Sarah Jane Adventures episode "Secrets of the Stars" as a character called Martin Trueman, an astrologer who was possessed by the Ancient Lights. On 8 August 2009, Abbot appeared in an episode of Casualty playing a pet shop owner. This marked Abbot's second Casualty role – he previously appeared as a different character in a 1999 episode. He appeared on Harry Hill's TV Burp parodying the character he played in Casualty.

In 2009, when Rowan Atkinson fell ill during the original run of Cameron Mackintosh's West End revival of Oliver!, Abbot stepped into the role of Fagin for the second time. He again took the role after Griff Rhys Jones left the show on 12 June 2010.

Between 2014 and 2016 he co-starred in the BBC sitcom Boomers.

In December 2020, University Radio Nottingham presenters George Scotland and Damian Stephen decided to start an internet campaign to get "Atmosphere" to number one for Christmas. The campaign, in the style of previous internet campaigns for Rage Against The Machine and AC/DC (both of whom charted within the Top 5) was endorsed by Abbot as well as Paul Chuckle and Alistair Griffin, with "Atmosphere" highlighted as one of the contenders for Christmas Number One by the Official Charts Company.

Family
Abbot has been married to Patricia Simpson since 28 January 1966. The couple have four children.

Singles

 * 1980 – "Space Invaders Meet the Purple People Eater" / "Country Cooper Man"
 * 1982 – "A Day in the Life of Vince Prince" (UK No. 61, one week; re-entered at No. 75 two weeks later for one week)
 * 1984 – "Atmosphere" (UK No. 7, in the chart for thirteen weeks)
 * 1985 – "All Night Holiday" (UK No. 20, in the chart for seven weeks)
 * 1985 – "Let's Go to the Disco" (No UK chart placing)

Albums

 * 1984 – Russ Abbot's Madhouse
 * 1985 – I Love A Party – (UK No. 12)
 * 1990 – Songs of Joy

title: Russ Abbot


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Talk:Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad

Respecting an encyclopaedia - Name+Location
In my experience at IIMA, it's always been IIMA or IIM-A, never IIM,A. The IIMs are different institutes, with different curriculi, different ethos and different teaching/management styles. They have distinct boards as well. IIM,A suggests the Ahmedabad branch of one organization called IIM. That's just not the case, the only real common factor between the IIMs is the entrance examination (JEE), besides the directors' meetings (Ad-hoc) and some linked alumnii and special interest groups (non-official).

If I remember correctly, the page is taken AS-IS from the news release after my batch's recruitment process, which is also recycled in various promotional material. It makes too many unsubstantiated and opinion statements (For ex., you cannot show a trend in people rejecting jobs abroad, or a trend in people staying outside the recruitment process to start schools/consultancies/etc. based on 2 years' data. C'mon, even the communications department would've kicked my ass if I'd tried to draw a trend based on 2 years' data in the Written Analysis & Communication (WAC) paper, let alone the marketing or eco profs! This is just not right.

This page should be about the campus, history & culture. There is a lot that should be added, think WAC runs, SIGs & Societies etc. etc. I won't just preach, I'll do it over the weekend as and when time permits.

p.s. - I am an alumnii of IIM Ahmedabad, batch of 2005

Correction to your note above: The common entrance test for IIMs is CAT and not 'JEE' as you have mentioned. JEE is for IITs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.200.225.156 (talk) 18:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It's "Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad"
... and not "Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad". The word "Ahmedabad" forms part of the name, and there is no comma that separates it from "Indian Institute of Management".
 * I researched the above statement a little bit and this is the best response so far from my classmate at IIM Lucknow.

''Is it Infosys Banagalore & Infosys Chennai or Infosys, Banagalore & Infosys, Chennai? The IIM is estd by the govt of India and each location gets its management and freedom to operate within a certain guidelines. But each location is an IIM. If you look at the official address, it says:'' ''IIM, Prabandh Nagar, Off. Sitapur Road, Lucknow-226 013.'' ''Therefore, the name is IIM & you are free to put or not put commas when you add the location name to identify the excact institute. The rules of English grammar tend to agree with Mr.Dole and say that you should put a comma.''

I beg to differ with the above statement. For both Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad and Indian Institute of Management Bangalore, the location is a part of the name of the institute, so there should not be a comma after the 'Management' (I'm not sure how it is for IIM Lucknow). The analogy with Infosys is not a good one, because in that case, Bangalore or Chennai denotes the place, and is not a part of the name of the company.

 * I think the comma should return.
 * doles 13:55, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I believe that the name used by the entities themselves should be used. At least in this case, it is without the comma.Vinay84 (talk) 16:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The standard notations are "Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad", "IIM Ahmedabad" or "IIMA". Refer IIMA website - this is the protocol followed there. The comma is not used. Vastrapur (talk) 05:03, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

NPOV
Much of this article is promotional rather than Neutral point of view. Paul foord 09:26, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Moreover, statistics about placements (though fancy) should not reflect in an encyclopedia. They are often inflated and details are not openly available to outsiders. Sbohra 10:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with foord.. some of the sections are not very encyclopaedic.. --Rev.bayes 20:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

MR Foord what u exactly mean when you use the word "promotional". Would mentioning Everest as highest peak in the world also tantamount to promotion???--194.221.74.7 16:48, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I endorse 194.221.74.7's views. IIMA is the best business school in India., (read the salaries offered part), , , . -- Andy123  (talk)  17:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I also agree that the article's style sounds promotional. -Mardus 03:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely on the NPOV. Words like `excellent`, `awe-inspiring` and so on aren't objective, neutral ways of describing this University. I'll start fixing this soon, unless people have a clear explanation as to how this fits the NPOV criteria. 61.126.88.206 (talk) 06:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Image placements
I moved the entrance image upwards, so that it would be easier to discern section edit links. -Mardus 03:33, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Citations?
Where are the citations? Why does the page 'admire' IIMA? Facts only please. This looks like a publicity page of IIMA - good school it could be but this is an encyclopedia page that looks like being 'used'. Effectively the page is tarnishing reputation of the school. This is not a page on IIM-server, its' a community-page where you have responsibility of not advertising. People editing this page should understand seriousness of it and edit the page asap to make it encyclopedic. Check this to see what I mean : Harvard Business School

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted because... --Foojzi (talk) 10:36, 22 April 2011 (UTC) It is not advertisement. In fact it merely represents facts & figures from numerous reputed surveys & agencies.

Academic boosterism and unreferenced material
I am in the process of a major rework of the article, and am going to remove almost all unreferenced claims. Kindly provide reliable sources to support statements mentioned within the article. Some sources are reliably provided. However, it's important that you confirm that the sources satisfy our guidelines too. Please write to me on my talk page for any clarifications or assistance. Kind regards.  Wifione    .......  Leave a message  16:50, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Copy vio concerns
I have removed huge amounts of material apparently copy pasted from the Internet. It'll take me around a couple of days to check whether the material on the net was copied from our site, or vice versa. Till then, kindly use reliable sources to add your own material.  Wifione    .......  Leave a message  16:58, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sites from where I've caught huge copy vio concerns: . Please do not add back material till you're completely sure it's not a copy violation.  Wifione    .......  Leave a message  17:47, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge List of Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad Alumni into Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad. The list is quite small. It contains six members, only two of which have Wikipedia articles, and could easily be incorporated into the existing article. --Muhandes (talk) 19:18, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Accepted. Wifione  Message 06:00, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Alumni
I removed the following from the list of Alumni. The reason is that per WP:NLIST one needs to demonstrate notability for every entry. The sources provided are not enough to satisfy WP:BIO or WP:GNG. I don't see how enough material can be added to satisfy these requirements, so please write an article about them before adding them again.
 * Piyush Gupta, Chief Executive Officer, DBS Bank
 * Ivan Menezes, President, North America and Chairman, Asia Pacific, Latin America & Caribbean, Diageo
 * Shikha Sharma, Chief Executive Officer, Axis Bank

--Muhandes (talk) 13:37, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Muhandes, I think it is okay to add entries to the list if notability can be established via secondary sources. And at least the first and third entries in the above list seem notable to me, though the third one needs a good secondary source in addition to the company webpage. I think Gupta and Sharma should be added back, with additional references for Sharma. Aurorion (talk) 17:15, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not going to argue this, but in my opinion a singular secondary source is not enough for WP:BIO. I am not claiming the person is not notable, but demonstrating that they are is impossible within the confined space of an alumni list. The place to demonstrate notability is an article about the person. While I wont remove it again (I'll simply remove the page from my watchlist instead) other editors are bound to remove the entry if there is no article.--Muhandes (talk) 17:53, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not have an opinion either way, but I would like to note that this guideline UNIGUIDE recommends that alumni section is written in prose rather than a list.-- Anbu121 ( talk me ) 04:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That's true for every list, see WP:Prose. I'm not sure why the prose section was replaced with a list. --Muhandes (talk) 13:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Talk / discuss before Edit warring.
Talk please. The present article gives UNDUE weightage and placement, so needs adjustment of content (cruft), and placement of the controversial "Plagiaraism" section to the stable (preferred) version. 2001:1640:5:0:0:0:3:BA (talk) 11:48, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Pedagogy
Pedagogy : The teaching style in IIM Ahmedabad is mostly case study based, where cases from different sectors are collected and made to analyse by students. Students are given access to many case study from Harvard, Stanford and other coveted institutes. It fosters practical learning among students and gives them insights into real life experiences in the corporate world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sravani95 (talk • contribs) 13:26, 6 March 2016

The Red Brick Summit
The section, at present, reads like an advertisement, and clearly needs editing to make it more encyclopedic in tone, style and structure. Ideally, it should focus on the nature of the event, the event's evolution, and the broad themes it covers.

Worryingly, it does not cite any sources at all. Unreferenced content is liable to be removed. Please add citations from reliable sources. Perhaps the following links could be used:

 * https://web.iima.ac.in/assets/upload/media/177067301920170722_Press%20Release_The%20Red%20Brick%20Summit.docx
 * https://www.ndtv.com/education/iim-ahmedbads-the-red-brick-summit-off-to-a-lively-start-1757143
 * https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/markets/motilal-oswal-amc-iima-initiative-for-bschools/article9810937.ece

 Shobhit102 |  talk  09:52, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 25 October 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

– As per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE, similar to the case of Georgia Tech, recent move of Delhi University and RM of IITs Talk:Indian Institute of Technology Bombay. All the IIMs except for IIM Trichy (which will have a separate RM due to different use of its city name) are listed here. Note: this not a RM for moving Indian Institutes of Management to IIM as there are number of other institutes with that acronym and the use of IIM may not be understood worldwide for Indian Institutes of Management. However the use of the acronym IIM with the city name is the normal standard and perfectly makes it clear to anyone that its referring to a specific institute.
 * Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad → IIM Ahmedabad
 * Indian Institute of Management Calcutta → IIM Calcutta
 * Indian Institute of Management Bangalore → IIM Bangalore
 * Indian Institute of Management Lucknow → IIM Lucknow
 * Indian Institute of Management Kozhikode → IIM Kozhikode
 * Indian Institute of Management Indore → IIM Indore
 * Indian Institute of Management Shillong → IIM Shillong
 * Indian Institute of Management Rohtak → IIM Rohtak
 * Indian Institute of Management Ranchi → IIM Ranchi
 * Indian Institute of Management Raipur → IIM Raipur
 * Indian Institute of Management Kashipur → IIM Kashipur
 * Indian Institute of Management Udaipur → IIM Udaipur
 * Indian Institute of Management Nagpur → IIM Nagpur
 * Indian Institute of Management, Amritsar → IIM Amritsar
 * Indian Institute of Management Bodh Gaya → IIM Bodh Gaya
 * Indian Institute of Management Sirmaur → IIM Sirmaur
 * Indian Institute of Management Visakhapatnam → IIM Visakhapatnam
 * Indian Institute of Management Sambalpur → IIM Sambalpur
 * Indian Institute of Management Jammu → IIM Jammu

Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad is the full name, but very rarely used. Even the official website displays IIM Ahmedabad more prominently, and the official twitter account  is IIM Ahmedabad. The faculty, students, alumni, general populace and the media all either refer it to as IIM Ahmedabad or as IIM-A. The worldwide google trend for last 12 months shows IIM Ahmedabad being searched 22 times more than Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad. Just recent articles (within last few days) in all top media houses refer to as IIM Ahmedabad   IIM Calcutta google trend  shows IIM Calcutta being searched 16 times more than Indian Institute of Management Calcutta. Similar is the case with all other 17 IIMs. Roller26 (talk) 10:12, 25 October 2020 (UTC) —Relisted.  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 22:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Relist note: WikiProjects have been notified of this move request.  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 23:03, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Oppose this case of conciseness over precision and recognizability. The acronym can be used in the article after it is defined, but IIM will be meaningless to most readers on its own. Dicklyon (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * , I have asked for the RM after understanding that acronyms in titles should be rarely used. Point 4 of WP:NC-UNI and MOS:ACROTITLE makes it pretty clear that acronyms in the titles can be used when institution you are naming is almost exclusively known only by including such terms and is widely used in that form and if readers somewhat familiar with the subject are likely to only recognise the name by its acronym, then the acronym should be used as a title. The first case has been made in the nomination, that the specific institute is almost always referred by the acronym IIM and its city name, for eg IIM Ahmedabad, upto the level of official level - its website and twitter account. Only in extremely official cases, like degrees and ranking, is the full name used. The second case is readers. Nearly all Indian readers not fully familiar with IIMs hardly ever know its full name and only refer to specific institutes by the proposed RMs like IIM Ahmedabad, not even knowing that its not its full official name. I am curious as to know other readers will come across such a specific institute page (in most cases). The only possibilities I understand are readers already familiar with the specific institute in which case they are more likely to search something like "IIM Ahmedabad", through navigation box on Indian Institutes of Management or other specific IIM institute or through wikilink for Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad or IIM Ahmedabad - in all cases they already understand the acronym IIM. I am also not asking for moving Indian Institutes of Management to IIM or IIMs (though every commonly used) due to the "precision and recognizability" reasoning and "strong preference for natural disambiguation", however there is no disambiguation required for specific institutes. And hopefully this points makes it clear that the requested RM is precise and recognizable enough to relevant readers. Roller26 (talk) 04:34, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Oppose The acronyms is meaningless outside of people who already know it. The full name conveys not only the country (India) but also the trade (management) is therefore far superior over what seems like random three letters. I think this is one case where the meaning and precision wins over conciseness. --Muhandes (talk) 07:54, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I am also not asking for moving Indian Institutes of Management to IIM or IIMs (though every commonly used) due to the "precision and recognizability" reasoning and "strong preference for natural disambiguation", however there is no disambiguation required for specific institutes. And hopefully this points makes it clear that the requested RM is precise and recognizable enough to relevant readers.. Also refer to my RM request and above reply to clarify the points that you raised here. That makes it abundantly clear that moving Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad to IIM Ahmedabad is a better option for the relevant readers. Roller26 (talk) 09:08, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * "Oppose" means that I read your request very carefully and I don't agree that it makes it abundantly clear that moving Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad to IIM Ahmedabad is a better option. I think that to someone unfamiliar with the higher-education system in India, "IIM Ahmedabad" is a confusing and meaningless term which does not convey the important facts: India and Management. "Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad" convey them, and therefore, is more precise. (I would add that I don't appreciate the way IIT Bombay was moved without proper discussion and consensus here) --Muhandes (talk) 13:03, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * , I am curious as to how the readers unfamiliar with the higher-education system in India are arriving on these pages. As the pageviews doesn't disclose specific page views split by countries, I have no idea. However looking at the Google trends links shows Indian readers searching these topics 25 times to 100 times more than the next country readers. Its more than likely that all of those readers too are aware of the abbreviation and those arriving on the pages are readers already familiar with the specific institute in which case they are more likely to search something like "IIM Ahmedabad", through navigation box on Indian Institutes of Management or other specific IIM institute or through wikilink for Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad or IIM Ahmedabad. Unless the random page has a very high probability of selecting these pages over the rest of pages, I believe that the concern if readers somewhat familiar with the subject are likely to only recognize the name by its acronym, then the acronym should be used as a title as articulated in  MOS:ACROTITLE and having a WP:COMMONNAME used more than 22 times than the current title takes the precedence. For those extremely few readers arriving on the page without a proper idea will get the idea about the institute in literally its first 4 words. Also if you have concern with IIT Bombay title change and the consensus for other IITs, start another RM or take the existing RM to Move Review. Roller26 (talk) 13:57, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You are repeating the same arguments and so do I, so lets agree to remain in disagreement. As for consensus on IITs, the place for that is obviously WT:INEI, with a notice at WT:IND, but this is off-topic. --Muhandes (talk) 15:05, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2020
Add Rank 1 in India Today Ranking Ayushsp (talk) 02:39, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ (not by myself) --Muhandes (talk) 09:43, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2020 (2)
Add Rank 1 in Business World Ranking (2020) Ayushsp (talk) 02:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ❌ MBA Universe is not a reliable source. Please discuss at WT:INEI. --Muhandes (talk) 09:47, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Proposed demolition of dormitories designed by Louis Kahn
The Louis Kahn dormitories were proposed for demolition but then were saved after an international outcry: Thriley (talk) 23:44, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:37, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * IIMA 01 Academic Block Entrance Plaza.jpg

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Talk:Kangaroo Island

Botched edit
Sorry Diceman, it was an edit gone wrong. I've been having issues with my connection lately, and before I had time to fix the fault, I lost it. --Cyberjunkie 05:58, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I thought something had gone haywire, I'm glad it wasn't you. :) Diceman 17:13, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tourism
I deleted this section because 1) Wikipedia is not a travel agency - most of the time :-) 2) almost every informations in the Tourism section is included in the Wildlife section, and then don't need its own paragraph. --Sam67fr 13:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I re-added parts that I considered encyclopedic. Some content would be better written in prose and should be swapped and moved to other parts of the article but i dont have time right now. ...maelgwntalk 09:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Gallery
recently moved some of the pictures to a gallery. I don't really like galleries and think that pictures on the side make an article easier to read and hold the readers attention more than the images at the bottom. IMHO I think they we should move them back :: maelgwn :: talk 01:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Both arguments have merit. I think in its current form, the article appears neater with the "tourist" style shots in a gallery.  With the current size of the article, that number of images tends to overtake and distract, so I think I marginally prefer the gallery at this stage.  Murtoa 22:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Sea Transport
It's untrue that Seaway only sailed "in calm weather". If you take calm weather as meaning seas say less than a metre, or even two metres, Seaway certainly did sail under these conditions.Browning ave 09:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I felt it was worth mentioning that SeaWay was unable to sail under the same conditions that SeaLink could, it would have been better to reword it to your satisfaction rather than delete it wholesale. - Diceman 14:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've reworded to express its comparative performance with SeaLink. It would be ideal (but may be difficult) to get some third party confirmation of the reliability issue rather than the first-hand experience you allude to in the edit comment. Murtoa 12:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It would have had something to do with the size of the boat and the movement of the cars on board. Also it had more distance to cover. Perhaps a boating expert could shed some light. - Diceman 15:11, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I can remember a school excursion/camp, or some such, where we sailed on Philanderer II from Peneshaw to Cape Jervis. My memory is not that clear, yet i believe it was a Year 7 Camp; which would date that journey in 1975. I remember the journey as it was a reasonably rough passage (though not the roughest passage across the Straights i experienced). I had kipped down on a row of seats near the stern of the vessel, in the below decks passenger area. Our art teacher, Margaret Patterson, (quite the interesting character) was attending to students who were feeling the effects of sea-sickness. She tossed a used sick-bag, from some distance within the cabin, out of the large, rectangular, open rear portal at the very stern of the vessel, which sailed over my head. I remember this incident as i was spotted by some leaking vomit, which was later noticed in my hair and so was teased by other students for being sea-sick, despite my protests. Philanderer ferries had been running for some time prior to that. I can also remember Philanderer I, though never sailed on that vessel, so would suggest that Peter March had been running Philanderer I for some while prior to 1975. I understand that by the time of Philanderer III, Peter March had generally retired and left the running of the vessels to his children. One could see these vessels at their winter anchorage in American River, as they did not run often over the winter months. My understanding is that the MV Troubridge was under-powered and unsuited for the waters and conditions. Troubridge was like a tall, fat, "bus" with the below decks holds virtually completely open to allow roll-on roll-off vehicular access for transportation. The rear top-deck was fitted for semi-trailer, truck and larger vehicles. The moveable gantry ramp attached to the Kingscote Jetty was raised or lowered to load the hold or upper-rear deck with vehicles. It was not comfortable passage in rough weather. I must have travelled on one of it's last several sailings in about March 1987, (chasing a local lass, home for the holidays, but studying in Canberra) which was a comfortable passage. March, generally, around that time, could be calmer than other times of the year. The seas around the north-east coast of Kangaroo Island can be particularly treacherous. Tides can run through Back Stairs Passage above 6 knots; and Kangaroo Island is one of the windiest places in Australia, with average wind speeds across the Island in the order of 25km/h (see http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ for Cape Willoughby, Cape Borda etc). MV Troubridge would struggle to steam above 6 knots and with the wind and tides against it, or poor weather, would just not sail or turn back to Port Adelaide. There are many stories of the vessel getting blown backwards. The port at Kingscote is somewhat exposed to the Southerly/South Easterly trade winds coming across Nepean Bay. It was often a struggle to berth Troubridge there in adverse weather. A steel "Dolphin" was constructed at the end of Kingscote Jetty in the early 1970's in an attempt to save the pier from the numerous collisions between it and Troubridge whilst docking. I remember seeing this Dolphin wobble at a surprising angle after a firm hit, though damage to the jetty proper was relatively minimal. 7Mar5ha11 02:30 UTC, 23 March 2010.

Lifestyle
To my knowledge there are no recorded shark attacks on swimmers on the south coast.Browning ave 06:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Peregrine (Perry) Morris was likely taken by a shark at Pennington Bay in about 1980. He would have been about 16 years old at that time. No body was ever found. The incident was witnessed by Perry's older sister. The Morris family lived near Pennington Bay at the time of the incident. Perry was a Boarder at Rostrevor College CBC, Adelaide for most of his secondary school education. 7Mar5ha11 (talk) 20:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * David Peregrine (Perry) Morris drowned at Pennington Bay in 1979. He was 17 years old at that time. His body was retrieved about a week later. The Morris family lived at Haines (Royston Park) at the time of the incident. [These corrections from an IP user, 203.220.138.166; reverted] and  transcribed by Doug butler (talk) 13:04, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Winery paragraph
There was a conflict of interest here, with a winemaker apparently writing about his own business (judging by the username of the contributor). So I've replaced it with a more general sentence about winemaking on the island. (p.s. since he used his own name, I don't think there's anything underhanded going on, just perhaps a misunderstanding of how WP works). Peter Ballard 12:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

infobox
So here is my draft of an infobox. Infobox_Islands gives an example of how it is used. I dont like the width of the second map - so maybe we should change the infobox a little to allow the width to be changed - or just subst it on KI page? It needs more details still :: maelgwn :: talk 03:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for drafting it. Have to say it looks a bit bulky and unwieldy; dare I say it, but this particular infobox template doesn't add a lot more critical info than what we've already got there.  Although I recognise that it assists in the grading of the article.     Suggest that if it is proceeded with, the width is cut back.  Might be worth some thought about the other parameters at the bottom of the box.  The "total islands" field is redundant - the "Island" in "Kangaroo Island" is somewhat self-explanatory!  Murtoa 10:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I think that the infobox is perfectly satisfactory as it is. I can see (and appreciate) that you'd like to tweak it before instituting it, but surely you could do this while it is there?  The infobox as is is preferable to what is currently on the Kangaroo Island article.  The images themselves - the maps; these are what I'd think need the most work. I can't promise I'll do that, but I could. - The Chairman 13:30, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The length of kangaroo Island (Almost directly East to West) is 144.4km. From the most westerly cape some 2.2km NW of the West Bay car-park, Latitude -35.8765°, Longitude 136.5331°, to Latitude -35.8413°, Longitude ,138.1348°; the most easterly point some 250 meters NE of Cape Willoughby Light House. The width of Kangaroo Island (North to South) varies between 925 meters, from a point on the beach 220 meters ENE from the intersection of Hog Bay and Muston Roads, Latitude -35.8431°, Longitude 137.7563°, to the small cove 530 meters E of the first car park towards the end of Pennington Bay Road above Pennington Bay, Latitude -35.8514°, Longitude 137.7554°; and the widest; (North to South... actually in a NNE/SSW direction... and I wonder the formal definition of length and breadth in these matters) is 59.03km, from the most Northerly part of the rock ledge at the north tip of North Cape Latitude -35.5609° Longitude 137.8219°, to the south most point of the rock ledge at the southern tip of Cape Gantheaume, Latitude -36.0755°, Longitude 137.4609°. (I am intrigued by the correct pronunciation of Gantheaume as it differs amongst the local residents, and also where the name comes from, and what it might mean / where it is derived).

Native Name: Karta. (see additions in "History" section) & http://www.samuseum.sa.gov.au/page/default.asp?site=2&page=TIN_Tribal&level=3&code=4&item=E4 Highest Mount: Mount McDonald, Lathami Conservation Park near Stokes Bay. Height: approximately 300 meters. Not Prospect Hill (Mount Tisby) as per current, which would not reach 300 feet. Largest City (Town): Kingscote Population: (Island total) 4686 (approx) http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/3218.02008-09 Population of Kingscote: (try the ABS "SuperTable") Population as of: 2009 Ethnic Groups: Mainly Anglo, also small remnant part aboriginal population believed to exist (see "King Wally" etc in history section)

(Most of this information has been derived from memory, as i have lost my notes from original sources from studies of the history of Kangaroo Island in 1982/83 & 1986/87 Some of these documents may now reside at the Queenscliffe Family Hotel). --7Mar5ha11 (talk) 08:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

American River
I deleted reference to the majority of the River's population living outside of the township. Unlike Parndana, which is a proclaimed Govt. township, and quite small in area, the township of American River is spread over a relatively large area. It encompasses the older part of the town, centred around the hall and post office, the coastal area towards the oval, and the areas developed in the 1970's above the original township.Browning ave 11:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

When did the Pennesshaw-Cap Jervis service begin?
The article says 1994 but that is definitely wrong because I rode it in 1993. Also in 1985 a student who was staying with us took a day trip to KI. I always thought he went by bus + ferry but maybe he flew. Peter Ballard 03:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

The Malaysian firm, MBF, acquired the ferry Philanderer 3 in 1989 from Peter March, who had been operating this particular ferry for most of the 1980's. Upon acquisition from Peter March, MBF traded under the name Kangaroo Island Sealink. In 1996, a consortium of staff members and KI residents acquired the company from MBF. Hence, the present Company has traded since 1996, but the Sealink name has been in existence since 1989.Browning ave 06:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

The Philanderer Ferries service of Peter March and family were running before i first lived on Kangaroo Island from 1969. 7Mar5ha11 02:34 UTC, 23 March 2010

Ligurian Honey Farms
Whilst the ligurian bee and honey products are important to Kangaroo Island, Ligurian Honey Farms would be considered a generic description and as such, not a particular place of interest.Browning ave (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How many are there on KI? Murtoa (talk) 07:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * about 30 farms in 2006 http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1651920.htm I understand it might not be a place but there is certainly a fair amount of promotion - Clifford's leading the Google charge but I don't think I would want to promote one over the category --Matilda talk 07:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks - in which case I think leave it out of the tourist bit as the activity is currently covered under "Population and Economy" (and that section could now include some of the content you've dug out) Murtoa (talk) 08:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Big Gap
Why is there a massive gap underneath the 'History' section?

can someone please fix this? 129.96.126.4 (talk) 04:13, 18 March 2009 (UTC) Lemphek of ASMS.
 * There isn't a gap on my screen. Maybe has something to do with your screen resolution/size.  Sometimes the text allied with pictures paginates in an unexpected way according to individual set-up.  Murtoa (talk) 23:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm having problems with both school computer and laptop. I have a screenshot if you want to see it for reference. 129.96.126.4 (talk) 01:49, 20 March 2009 (UTC) Lemphek of ASMS

History
Early Settlement. Local knowledge relates that a party of 3(?) non-indigenous settlers, with their native "Wives" were resident at Antechamber Bay, at the eastern end of the Island, in the early 1800's, prior to official white settlement. It is some 42km ESE of the Reeves Point settlement established by the South Australia Company in 1836. The party included John "King Wally" Waller, a large an impossing fellow, (???) Bates and (???). This party were sealers and possibly escaped convicts or deserted sailors. Their behaviour and interaction with the official white settlement would suggest they had something to hide. It is not difficult to imagine that they sought isolation, well away from existing settlements in NSW, Tasmania and Victoria. When discovered, Waller and company appeared to be living an indigenous lifestyle, living in bark huts and wearing animal skins. Antechamber Bay has good water in Chapman River, which would also have afforded a safe harbour from the southerly storms, and hidden from any passing shipping, abundant wild life and excellent fishing in the waters nearby. There are three small islets at the southern entrance to Backstairs Passage, called The Pages, which would have afforded excellent opportunities for the taking of Seals. There were young children in the Waller party when discovered. The age of the children would suggest that Waller's party were not resident from 1802, as detailed elsewhere; more likely after Flinders' discoveries had become known. The indigenous women were "stolen" from the mainland, as there were no indigenous residents on the Island at that time. The indigenous women were most reluctant to travel to the Island as, it is said, that Karta was the, "land of spirits" to the mainland tribes. I have long been curious about the legal circumstances of the first official settlement, in light of the fact that Antechamber Bay had already been settled, and what rights Waller and company should have retained. Source documents were available at Hope Cottage Museum, Centenary Avenue, Kingscote. http://www.hopecottagemuseum.com/ (I am indebted to Mrs Carter for her caring and assistance. Unfortunately i now live far to distant to access much of the source material that is available on Kangaroo Island and in Adelaide and elsewhere). I would be most surprised if some of the descendants of Waller and Company do not survive today. I have read some source material about the female descendants of these families, where it was said that there were no surviving male descendants by about the 1950's, to preserve the family names. There are however members of the Bruce family, the males of which are generally known as "Darky". The Darky Bruce i knew was a most superb horseman, though somewhat estranged from regular Island community. I attended Kingscote Area School with a "Hammond" Waller, though the one time i asked him if his family were connected to King Wally, he was most quick to deny that fact. I still wonder. Of course the political situation until relatively recently, with discrimination against indigenous and mixed blood people, it is known that these descendants had reason to hide their heritage. I hope that situation has changed in these more enlightened times. No doubt many would have most interesting stories to tell and would be a wealth of knowledge of Island history. 7Mar5ha11 (talk) 22:39, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

His name was Wallace. He was a sealer from Smithton in Tasmania. He was a Freemason. Wallace was his first name, not his last name. He has tens of thousands of descendants around Australia. All of this available from a thorough search of Kangaroo Island, including the three cottages of Faith, Hope and Charity. The women who travelled there were Tasmanian Aboriginals. Wallace bought them with fur coats from either their husbands or fathers, most likely the latter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.159.63 (talk) 08:14, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Ligurian Bees
I'm not aware of the section containing anything false, but it is not written as an encyclopaedia article so I put the "Essay-Like" template on this section. Examples include:

 * "The oft repeated legend of the birth of the Ligurian bee sanctuary appears on a multitude of web sites dealing with Kangaroo Island's :famous honey bees. The reality is more complex than the simple but incorrect version that twelve Ligurian queen bees were brought to the :island from Italy by August Fiebig in 1881. The implication is the quarantine gates were then locked forever after and all the honey :bees on the island since then owe their lineage to those original twelve queens. Not so! It didn’t happen that way.

Not sure what happened to my comment on the main page to explain what I did. Sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanShearer (talk • contribs) 20:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

 * The flavour also appears to reflect original research. If that's not the case, it desperately requires independent sources.  If the section is to remain at this length, I think it warrants its own article as it occupies space in the KI article disproportionate to its significance. Murtoa (talk) 03:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

 * sources are a must. I grew up there, saw the bees, references may be hard to get Valkyrie 06 (talk) 23:18, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

The myth about Ligurian bees on KI has been refuted by science since the mid 1990's.....its just that apiarists and the state government aren't up with the science. It is amazing how different the truth is regarding the bees' genetics (they are actually hybrids and closer to the black/German bee subspecies than the Ligurian/Italian bees)! Thus the entire section needs to be removed and rewritten; please see my recently published (peer-reviewed) article in Austral Entomology. It summarises the historical facts and genetic information. The abstract can be accessed at http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/aen.12124/abstract — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.184.25.17 (talk) 02:55, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Wildlife and its protection
In researching a new page on Joseph Whittaker (botanist) from England who had Australian connections around 1839 to 1840, its likely that we can add some very useful early history to this section in due course, as well as some some modern information on the number of plant taxa and endemic plant species (39 taxa). For now our own page is still being assembled with more information in this source: Kraehenbuehl DN, Moyes N. 1999 Joseph Whittaker: early English botanical visitor to South Australia. S. Austral. Nat. 73. (3-4): 44-60 (1999) Parkywiki (talk) 23:07, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

whatever it was, I guess it happened in 1836
What makes a settlement "official"? If people build houses and live there, is it not a settlement until someone stamps a paper or something? —Tamfang (talk) 08:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Fixed; see European settlement of South Australia. Thanks for pointing this out. Graham 87 14:39, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Missed one: "Originally established at Reeves Point on 27 July 1836, [Kingscote] is South Australia's first official European settlement." Can I remove the word, or should it be replaced with some other? —Tamfang (talk) 03:38, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I deliberately left that in because I thought it was OK in that case, but I've gone and changed "official European" to "colonial"; that sounds better anyway IMO. Graham 87 15:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. —Tamfang (talk) 20:02, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

The settlement by Governor Wallace is probably the most important thing to happen in Kangaroo Island history. It warrants mentioning. The greatest problem is that ambiguity of the truth of what really happened, as it is embroiled with ghost stories, superstitions and the kinds of things that rely on beliefs that Kangaroo Island is truly Karta, the island of the dead. There is already a small section in the article about it. Perhaps it is best that a place that is possibly the most haunted place in the world does not have much mention of the nature of the haunting made public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.159.63 (talk) 08:17, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Highest point on Kangaroo Island (KI)
I have just added a ‘verify source’ tags to the infobox for the following reason. I looked at the 1983 version of the Royal Australian Navy chart, Gulf of St Vincent and Approaches, and discovered that Prospect Hill has a height of 328 ft and is not the highest point on Kangaroo Island. There are numerous places higher than Prospect Hill. The three highest points which I can find in a quick read of the chart are all on or adjoining the north coast of KI (from west to east) are Cape Torrens 725 ft, Castle Hill 877 ft and Mount Macdonnell 984 ft. It is likely that the latter is the highest point; however I would like to find a reliable source other than a chart before amending the article. By the way, I just noticed this subject had been briefly discussed on the TALK page (refer the subject of INFOBOX). Cowdy001 (talk) 02:36, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Reliable source found and article updated.Cowdy001 (talk) 00:34, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

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Fire
Link, if anyone is moved to add the recent bushfire: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/ravine-fire-burning-on-kangaroo-island-virtually-unstoppable-in-current-conditions-cfs-says/news-story/e8ce03fa2178a0148a324627cabeb611 Elinruby (talk) 02:49, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kangaroo Island


text:
User talk:Vel~enwiki

My main project is updating the information on Australian languages, especially Dyirbal and Guugu Yimidhirr, as that's the specific area of linguistics that I'm studying right now.

My interests are varied, however, so don't be surprised to see me edit pages about other languages or completely different topics.

Your account will be renamed
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title: User talk:Vel~enwiki


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Jack N. Rakove

Jack Norman Rakove (born June 4, 1947) is an American historian, author, and professor at Stanford University. He is a Pulitzer Prize winner.

Biography
Rakove was born in Chicago to Political Science Professor Milton L. Rakove (1918–1983) and his wife, Shirley. The elder Rakove taught at the University of Illinois at Chicago (1957–1983) and Barat College (Lake Forest, Illinois).

Jack Rakove earned his AB in 1968 from Haverford College and his PhD in 1975 from Harvard University. He was also a student at the University of Edinburgh from 1966 to 1967. At Harvard, he was a student of Bernard Bailyn.

Rakove is the W.R. Coe Professor of History and American Studies and professor of political science at Stanford University, where he has taught since 1980. He also taught at Colgate University from 1975 to 1980. He has been a visiting professor at the NYU School of Law.

Rakove won the 1997 Pulitzer Prize for History and the 1998 Cox Book Prize for Original Meanings: Politics and Ideas in the Making of the Constitution (1996) which questioned whether originalism is a comprehensive and exhaustive means of interpreting the Constitution. Revolutionaries: A New History of the Invention of America (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt), was a finalist for the George Washington Book Prize. He was elected to the American Philosophical Society in 2007.

Works

 * The Beginnings of National Politics: An Interpretive History of the Continental Congress Alfred Knopf, 1979; reprint: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1982, ISBN 9780801828645
 * James Madison and the Creation of the American Republic Scott, Foresman/Little, Brown Higher Education, 1990, ISBN 9780673399946
 * Original Meanings: Politics and Ideas in the Making of the Constitution A.A. Knopf, 1996, ISBN 9780394578583; reprint: Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group, 2010, ISBN 9780307434517
 * Declaring Rights: A Brief History with Documents Bedford/St. Martin's, 1998, ISBN 9780312137342
 * Making a Hash of Sovereignty, Part I, The Green Bag (Autumn 1998), pages 35–44
 * Making a Hash of Sovereignty, Part II, The Green Bag (Autumn 1999)
 * Beyond Belief, Beyond Conscience, The Radical Significance of the Free Exercise of Religion. (2020)
 * Beyond Belief, Beyond Conscience, The Radical Significance of the Free Exercise of Religion. (2020)
 * Beyond Belief, Beyond Conscience, The Radical Significance of the Free Exercise of Religion. (2020)

title: Jack N. Rakove


text:
Deno Andrews

Deno J. Andrews (born 1971) is an American former professional three cushion billiards player, a tournament promoter, and a coach to some well-known pool champions.

In September 2005, Andrews became Tour Director for the International Pool Tour (IPT), a major professional pool tour at that time. He ran the inaugural IPT event, the King of the Hill Shootout, an invitational tournament of 42 players from around the world, including many of the Billiard Congress of America's living Hall of Famers. The tournament paid out US$1,000,000 in total prize money, with a prize of $200,000 for the first-place finisher, Efren Reyes.

In private life, Andrews is a collector of antique billiard artifacts.

title: Deno Andrews


text:
Talk:Bicycle lock

Clarification
I clarified as best I could. Here is the original text from the previous edit

 * A bicycle lock is a safety device used on bicycles to prevent theft. Putting and handle and rope locks are used.

 * ==Putting lock==
 * A putting lock is a fahrradschloss, which consists of a lockable metal pin. It prevents a rotation of the Rades in the final condition. Putting locks cannot prevent a theft by carrying away the bicycle.

 * ==Buegel lock==
 * A buegel lock is a bicycle lock, which consists of a usually flexible metal ring, which is led by the spokes and the frameworks. Since this handle can be wound also around firm of objects, it is possible with a buegelschloss to secure bicycles also against carrying off. Buegelschloesser offer a higher protection from thefts. In contrast to putting locks buegelschloesser are used also as zahlenschloesser.

 * ==Chain lock==
 * A chain lock is a lockable chain. A chain lock is like a buegel lock available as key or number lock. Chain locks are also used for securing other transportable things from theft.

I have no idea what a Buegel or lock or a Putting lock is. There's a lot of german looking words here. If someone knows what these are, and wants to add them back in a clear and consise manner, that's fine by me. Additionally, this entire entry should probably be in Wiktionary. The section on chain locks strikes me especially as a blinding flash of the obvious. DaveTheRed 06:10, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think we should have a different image at the top, one where the lock is doing its job? :-> The lonely wheel could be later, illustrating a discussion of how to properly lock a bike. --Christopherlin 09:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

5 != Hex
Five-sided hex key skewers exist... Hm. Five-sided pent keys may be. Or possibly five-sided Allen Keys 91.4.206.122 22:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Liquid Nitrogen
I think the original editor's claim that "freone" is used to break U-locks is dubious considering he couldn't even get the word right. At any rate, I think he meant 'liquid nitrogen,' as Freon isn't even cold as it is normally stored. Liquid nitrogen is a very expensive and exotic way to break a lock as much more sensible methods (such as using a grinder) exist. I rewrote that section. I also removed the reference to "Kryptonite U-Locks" as the picture already is of a kryptonite-brand U-lock and the Kryptonite mark is also used on chain and cable locks. -- Jorbettis 07:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Is the "liquid nitrogen used as a lock-defeating strategy" claim even verified? Urban legend?

If I remember my high school chemistry correctly all compressed gases absorb heat when allowed to expand. (It's not so much that they become cold as everything around them becomes cold) Some gases are handier then others for refrigeration purposes in that they aren't flammable or poisonous. -Dhodges 14:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

 * While liquid nitrogen should theoretically make a lock brittle enough to shatter it, the fact of the matter is that it requires the metal to be dipped in the liquid for a period of time. It is an incredibly dangerous material to work with and you would need a lot to successfully freeze a lock to a shatter point. If someone wants to add it back in, I strongly suggest finding a reliable source to cite, because I've tried it and it didn't work on my Kryptonite lock, though I wish it did. --SquatGoblin 03:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Direct action
I just noticed that this page is missing a section on the use of bike locks in blockading and direct action. If I ever have more time I might come back here and update it, but if anybody feels inspired, I've planted the idea. --58.107.128.190 (talk) 12:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

"Professor Eric Clanton of Diablo Valley College is alleged to have used a Bike lock in a downward thrust making contact with an unsuspecting victim’s skull. This method is most effective when masked but should not be used as a part of direct action as it is illegal."
 * I believe the above detail has no place in an encyclopedia article about bicycle locks for the following reasons:
 * Although a bicycle lock is mentioned, it is not a key part of the point. The heavy object used in the assault could have been anything. In the other example of direct action, the role of the bicycle lock is a key part of the story, and could only be replaced by some other mechanism that could also serve as a bike lock.
 * The alleged actions of the professor and where he might have worked has nothing particularly to do with bicycle locks or direct action.
 * The whole thing reads like a juvenile attempt to spread bad publicity about somebody.
 * Unless these points are addressed, this detail should stay out of the article. -AndrewDressel (talk) 12:39, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Advertising
Advertising? Almax chains seem to get a lot of uncritical mentions here.188.223.195.138 (talk) 11:12, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Reference no 3 is a dead link
^ "Sold Secure". Squire Security.

links to a 404 page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.151.164.200 (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Wheel locks in North Korea
Some people might know that North Korea heavily restricts cars and transport is usually either by public transport, bicycle or on foot. Given how wheel locks are so common in countries like China, sort of allied with North Korea, and in other places where cycling is common, Denmark, Netherlands, Japan, etc, are they common in NK? Has anyone seen a picture of North Korean bicycles with a focus on the rear triangle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.156.139 (talk) 09:42, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

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U-lock inventor
Apparently the U-lock was invented by Stan Kaplan. I think this is noteworthy since U-locks are everywhere on bikes these days. https://patents.google.com/patent/US3800570A/en — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:3087:9F01:5CDE:48EA:7398:7146 (talk) 23:54, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bicycle lock


text:
Talk:Rogue Amoeba

Fission
Someone should write something about Fission, and Windows... - mark
 * Hey, you're someone, and you sound like you care. Maybe you should do it! Foobaz·o< 06:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Location
They moved, they are now in Cambridge, MA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.76.85 (talk) 06:10, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Done —EqualRights (talk) 10:54, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rogue Amoeba


text:
Talk:AT&T Mobility

Cingular.com
I just wanted to point out that cingular.com now redirects to http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/welcome/index.jsp. Also, nowhere on the page does it say "AT&T Mobility". On the navigation bar, it uses the term "wireless".Jcembree 02:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that this whole article should be renamed "Wireless from AT&T" as that is how they refer to it. Michaelcox 16:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Agreed, never has it been known as AT&T Mobility(at least to my knowledge as a rep) but always with the intention of transitioning from Cingular to AT&T Wireless. chrism583 11:58, 22 June 2007 (-6 CST)

 * The name is AT&T. Internally they use the name "AT&T Mobility". Majoreditor 03:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

 * As I posted above, the internal brand center for AT&T directs that all references should be "wireless from AT&T" (lowercase 'w' deliberate). Yes, I am an AT&T (former BellSouth) employee with access to that.--Donovan Ravenhull 10:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The AT&T webpage does now say "Service provided by AT&T Mobility."Cwc2311 (talk) 22:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

May 19th AT&T/NASCAR
The information surrounding May 19th needs looking in to. Please see or.

This is still on going. Pontiac36 03:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

AT&T is still claming fewest dropped calls
Someone added that AT&T is no longer mentioning that they have the fewested dropped calls, which is false. even though they have dropped the claim, they still show commericals where two persons are talking on the phone, then to call drops. This is still part of their claim, no matter how they change it up. So even though web sites have reported the change, AT&T is still making the claim by using the dropped call commericals.

The2ndflood 12:17, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

They currently claim only that "a dropped call can ruin a conversation". December, 2007.

http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/08/att-ditches-few.html

Windows Mobile 6 Update Controversy
I requested sources for the material in the "controversy" section related to the WM6 upgrade multiple times. There seems to be some confusion as to what constitutes a source, and what statements required sources. It is absolutely required that a reliable, third party source is provided to support what appears to be someone's personal commentary on the topic. A link to a single forum post is not a reliable source; a link to a general forum is not a reliable source. I'm extending some good faith in leaving the material up for a few more days; pending some rather radical re-write of what appears to simply be a trivial and non-notable consumer personal grudge. Please reference our policy on original research and the reliable sources guidelines. Kuru talk  13:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I would hardly call a situation where a company promises something, doesn't deliver, and then doesn't give any reason why and won't communicate at all trivial and non-notable. Here's a link on AT&T's website that says the update is available, when in fact it is not: http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/windows-mobile/?_requestid=31563 This is especially considering around 200 pages of forum posts on AT&T's official forums on the lack of information on the Windows Mobile 6 update. However, I do appreciate the need for reliable sources. I'll see if we can come up with some sources. To be honest, I don't know how to actually put source citations in, as I'm kind of a novice at this, but if we can find anything, I'll post some links here and maybe someone can put them in.Cwc2311 15:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

 * From what you've done today, you seem to have figured out how to add cites perfectly. It's still the reliability of the cites that is a critical concern. Again, we cannot use random forum posts, or blog entries, or original research to verify the claims of this being some significant controversy.  If you can find some third party reference to the scandal in a newspaper or some other publication, that would be perfect.   Kuru  talk  23:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually, I didn't add those citesCwc2311 05:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. When reliable sources are found, please let me know and I'll assist you in citing the material.  As it is, the content completely fails WP:Verifiability.  Since nothing has been forthcoming since I've asked for references, I'll remove the material for now.  If you'd like to try and re-write it into some sort of neutral passage, I'd be happy to assist as well.  Kuru  talk  19:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I hadn't actually come up with the passage to begin with. I agree that it fails the standards for verifiability on Wikipedia.  I think someone on the AT&T forums put the actual passage up.  Perhaps a passage simply dealing with AT&T missing some release dates and having trouble getting the update out on all its upgradable phones would be a better passage.  If so, I probably wouldn't put it under the controversy section.  Any thoughts?Cwc2311 (talk) 05:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly. I'm just seeing the one press release from Palm talking about the availability of WM6 in March, but I assume AT&T put out something as well. It's really the hyperbole of the previous passage that was causing my concern; a simple referenced annotation that something was advertised and then not delivered is fine.  I would still question the notability of such a thing, but as you noted above, that assessment is subjective and I'm willing to concede the point.  Kuru  talk  03:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

what are the frequencies for ATT
I know there native frequency is 850 MHz and from what I am aware of ATT sold there 1900 MHz (1.9ghz) to t-mobile

what are the frequencies UMTS, W-CDMA ?

i have found my answer ATT uses a mix of 1900mhz and 850mhz

this makes there UMTS handsets and UMTS network closed from non ATT phones unless they are umts(wcdma) quad-band

~Tauri5663~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.43.162.146 (talk) 04:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Who merged/bought who?
The article makes this confusing...

Who merged or bought who?

It seems as if AT&T and AT&T bought Cingular, Cingular bought AT&T, and then Cingular merged with AT&T.

Can someone give me some insight on this?24.58.143.68 (talk) 17:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I was overruled on this before (but the actual way that makes the most sense). SBC was split from AT&T back in the '80s... SBC went on to exist on it's own independent company with their own shareholders etc.  Then in the 90's SBC buys AT&T's Wireless unit and merges it with Cingular.

That was when you had people with "Cingular Blue" and "Cingular Orange" wireless plans. (Blue meant you came from AT&T, Orange meant you were a Cingular customer all along.) AT&T (the Mom Bell or "Ma- Bell") started to have more money troubles. So their Cable business got sold to Comcast. The Telephone (Long Distance division) was snapped up by SBC some years later. But then, SBC after buying AT&T said that name was a better brand so they renamed all of SBC thereafter to at&t (small case) and that's where it is today.

Then Cingular got renamed back to at&t wireless... It was kind of a roundabout way for SBC to get their merger approved. If SBC had gone way back then and said they wanted to combine AT&T's Long Distance business with a Local phone company that tacktic probably would have gotten more opposition. So, they've done it piecemeal and then just rename the whole animal back to the way it would have been... P.S. Then the buyout of Bellsouth happen thereafter and became "at&t" too. CaribDigita (talk) 12:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge 300-page iPhone bill into AT&T Mobility
There has been a degree of dispute about the 300-page iPhone bill article. It has both been deleted and declared a Good Article. The GA listing is based on the article meeting certain technical standards and does not in itself reflect directly on the notability of the subject. While it is accepted that at the time there was a media buzz on the subject, this is now declining, and there is a question as to the long-term value of an in-depth article on a single phone bill, as well as the focus of the article itself. As there is still an interest in the subject matter, and people may now and in the future wish to research the background to the event, it is appropriate that the article is kept in some form. It has been suggested that the article be merged with another article - iPhone has been mentioned - though this seems the most appropriate place. The article would need to be cut down to the essential details - a blogger got a 300 page (is it that big? the video itself seems to show fewer than that) bill which she then made a video of and released on YouTube which gained some media attention - when merging.  SilkTork  *What's YOUR point? 11:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * At this juncture, I'm not going to get terribly invested in this discussion except to point out the following. It seems you're inferring that the notability of the former topic is depreciating over time; however the apropos guideline states that "[i]f a subject has met the general notability guideline, there is no need to show continual coverage or interest in the topic."  The notability of the 300-page iPhone bill has been upheld 4 (5?) times thus far, so suggesting it be merged and culled on that basis seems unlikely?  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 14:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Policy states that "Wikipedia considers the historical notability of persons and events", and a thoughtful essay - Recentism - has some useful things to say on this matter. It is not unknown for articles on current news events to condense as time lends perspective. It is difficult to know at the time how notable a news event will become. Wiki is very good at tapping in on current events, and buzz events in particular are popular subjects for the typical Wiki editor. However, as we get a firmer grip on the event's notability so it becomes appropriate to deal with the article accordingly.  SilkTork  *What's YOUR point? 20:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If your best argument for merging this article is an essay then the merge just isn't going to happen. As has been mentioned, 300-page iPhone bill has been evaluated for notability several times and has passed each time.  It will not magically cease to be notable overnight, and certainly not in the brief timespan between the event and now.  If we were to evaluate the article 5 years from now, maybe.  Maybe.  Now, not a chance in hell. -- Y|yukichigai (ramble   argue  check ) 20:52, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think your comment was directed at me. I did reference a policy as well as an essay. And the essay is well used and respected, reflecting wide consensus. So I have referenced official policy and wide consensus. I'd also like to point out that the article has been deleted, then restored, so "passed each time" is not accurate. The article is problematic, and I am suggesting a solution. I have given what I feel are good reasons. Be nice to hear some thoughtful and insightful comments either in favour or in opposition to the suggestion.  SilkTork  *What's YOUR point? 19:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Something that is written by a "respected" user does not have any sort of inherent consensus to it. You are, essentially, linking to another user's opinion rather than explaining it in your own words, which is fine mind you so long as you don't attempt to imply it means anything more than that.
 * As to concerns of notability, the fact that this was discussed at length in numerous news programs and newspaper articles and (indirectly or directly) led to a change in AT&T's billing policy seems to confirm its notability fairly well. -- Y|yukichigai (ramble  argue  check ) 04:45, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, let me get this straight: you want to merge a good article into a section of a B-class article, where the GA has more reliable sources (properly formatted to boot) than the target article, and is better written overall. Why is this thought necessary?  WP:NOT; WP:N; WP:SS would be my policy links for why this is completely counterproductive; but I also approve of WP:RECENT, and absolutely abhor the "it's only an essay" argument.  Oppose merge.  Happy‑melon 09:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Retail Locations / Kiosks
Does anyone have a cited source for the number of retail, Point of Sale locations for AT&T or AT&T Mobility? B.K. (talk) 18:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarism?
I don't know who plagiarized who, but http://www.solarnavigator.net/sponsorship/telecommunications/AT&T.htm appears, almost verbatim, the same as this wikipedia page. I think that some parts are exactly the same and others have the same structure but use different words. 216.193.2.1 (talk) 09:58, 30 March 2008 (UTC) (meviin)

at&t should be lowercase.
in the tittle it is AT&T the company refers to themselves with lowercases, if you call in wanting support, they ask if your phone has capital AT&T or lowercase at&t, the old company was capital and the new company is lowercase to show themselves different. that should be adjusted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.228.0.52 (talk) 06:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The logo is merely cosmetic. Practically every line of PROSE on the AT&T Web site refers to AT&T capitalized, not in lowercase.  It is a common practice in graphic design (I used to be crazy about it when I was a teenager) to goof around with capitalization of the client's name in the logo to make it look interesting, but that does not change the client's name as used in standard prose documents and legal documents.  --Coolcaesar (talk) 17:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Grammatically it's still a proper noun, so it would be capitalized, no matter what their branding department says. However, considering it is no longer an acronym, might it be At&t? Lexlex (talk) 16:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

List of phones
The list of phones that are offered is ever-changing, filled with redlinks because most phones don't warrant an entire article, and unencyclopedic. I believe it should be removed. Phones of particular significance to the company and this article (iphone, n-series, etc) should be fit into the body of the article. -76.21.103.36 (talk) 21:03, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Importance
Is it really that important to Atlanta or Georgia for it to be rated Top?

Clean-up needed
Besides the bloated WP:LEAD section (the union stuff doesn't appear to be covered elsewhere and thus should not even be in the lead/lede), the coverage of the NASCAR sponsorship item needs to be reduced to about a paragraph, as one issue/minor lawsuit over sponsorship should not take about about 1/10 of the article. Doing so violates WP:UNDUE. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:54, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Excellent surgery by Attitude2000! He's correct, though, in that it needs a little more work. Nevertheless, should we remove the  tag from the beginning? UncleBubba (Talk) 21:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

 * I chopped up the intro, but the sheer level of detail still makes the article seem a bit like a promotional brochure. -- Beland (talk) 00:15, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

 * http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/05/18/att.wins.lawsuit.ap/index.html
 * In Jeff Burton on 2011-05-06 19:46:11, 404 Not Found
 * In AT&T Mobility on 2011-06-20 01:05:33, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 01:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 2
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

 * http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/05/19/nascar.loses.stay.att.ap/index.html
 * In Jeff Burton on 2011-05-06 19:46:11, 404 Not Found
 * In AT&T Mobility on 2011-06-20 01:05:44, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 01:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Dead link 3
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

 * http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/06/17/nascar.sues.att.ap/index.html
 * In Jeff Burton on 2011-05-06 19:46:11, 404 Not Found
 * In AT&T Mobility on 2011-06-20 01:06:00, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 01:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Aio Looping Link
The link to subsidiary Aio Wireless is a redirect back to the AT&T Mobility page.

There should be a section for Aio, or another page in its entirety.

Jaysonwhelpley (talk) 13:07, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

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Frequencies used on the AT&T Network
should iden and CDMA be included? those are currently active networks in their ATT mexico division? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.249.2.228 (talk) 08:32, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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Plagiarism 2?
I see that this article is currently scoring 96.7% on Earwig's Copyvio Detector.

I am wondering if the site it identifies is plagiarising us or vice versa. It doesn't acknowledge Wikipedia as a source. I see an old message from 10 years ago above noting the same sort of thing with a different site and the link there looks very suspiciously similar (right down to the advert for "Solar Cola", whatever that might be, at the bottom) but with some differences. They both look a bit odd. I am wondering if they are each copied from different old versions of this article?

Are we happy that they are copying us and we have no copyright problems here ourselves? --DanielRigal (talk) 21:37, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Merge 5G Evolution
5G Evolution is merely marketing by AT&T Mobility to promote transitional 4G LTE networks to ride off the 5G branding. It should be incorporated here. ViperSnake151  Talk  23:30, 21 December 2018 (UTC) Comment: I'm rather unfamiliar with merging. Before I cast my decision, would someone mind answering a couple questions? In such merges, would all content and sourcing be retained? Also, is it possible for a redirect to be provided for readers who search for such a topic to be pointed to the new 5G Evolution section of the AT&T Mobility main page? Huggums537 (talk) 01:42, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support – This is mostly obvious. Not only is there no presented notability in 5G Evolution, but the first sentence is "5G Evolution (5G E) is a trademark of AT&T Mobility...". ––Redditaddict69 (talk)  (contribs)  20:59, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

I did some research at WP:Merge and WP:Redirect to answer my own questions. My initial response was to oppose this merge on the basis that the AT&T article is already too bulky and that the 5G Evolution page could be expanded. However, further analysis reveals this assessment is not correct since 5G Evolution is not *true* 5G and it could not therefore be expanded that much or merged with either the 4G, nor the 5G articles appropriately. Since my research indicates a merge typically includes a targeted redirect,

I  Support  [changed my mind about] the merge. Huggums537 (talk) 12:27, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I also agree with ViperSnake151 that it should go into subsection 6.5, under the "Marketing" section, right below the "4G LTE" subsection. Huggums537 (talk) 12:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

The "5G Evolution" article is already 3-paragraph long and over 3000 byte in size. Indeed, it is part of the larger topic of AT&T Mobility, yet it received concern from various different places outside AT&T regarding this particular branding, see references in the original article. Is it really necessary to put all of them into this article and further increase this article size by 3KB, instead of simply linking that article from this article with a simple description? C933103 (talk) 22:02, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I was also concerned about the size at first, but more importantly, isn't omitting the controversy kinda misleading? I'm sure the whole thing could be pruned down some, but I for sure would not replace the controversy and all that with just a simple description that eliminates pertinent sourcing... Huggums537 (talk) 05:52, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah wait a minute, I misunderstood your suggestion, you want to link the articles and simultaneously add a short description to this one. I thought you meant something else to do with eliminating the 5G Evolution article in favor of a short description in this one. Disregard my previous statement. In fact, I'll strike it. Huggums537 (talk) 06:04, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It is purely a creation of AT&T as a trademark to mislead consumers on upcoming 5G developments. ViperSnake151   Talk  20:54, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * While I do support the merge, and the limited local consensus we have here does seem to be in favor of the merge so far, I also think it is only fair that enough time should be given for anyone else to comment who might oppose it. That way, there can be no denial later on that the merge wasn't fully supported, or that every opportunity for anyone to oppose wasn't amply given... Huggums537 (talk) 23:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I've been rethinking my position, and I think C933103 has come up with a viable alternative to merging. Especially since this AT&T article is already so large. Adding a small mention of the misleading controversy here and then linking to the 5G Evolution article is a better proposal in my view because it is easier to accomplish, and it keeps this article down to a more manageable size as well as the editorial ease of keeping the original article without requiring the work of doing the pruning and merging that would be needed for this proposal.
 * So, I  OPPOSE  [changed my mind for the last time about] the merge, and will strike my other votes. Huggums537 (talk) 00:18, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Gah! I just took a look at the merge that was easily done by ViperSnake, and all the content from the 5G Evolution article was retained in the merge. Plus, it just plain looks like it belongs in this article. AT&T is a HUGE company, so it's not surprising that it would have a correspondingly huge article. The 5G Evolution content fits in perfectly and there is no loss whatsoever. I am changing my mind for the last time. Sorry for the wish-washiness guys...
 * I Support the merge. I still think we should give other editors time to comment though... Huggums537 (talk) 00:44, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Re: article size. There are bits and pieces that shouldn't be there to begin with per WP:NOTCATALOG. ViperSnake151   Talk  00:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:AT&T Mobility


text:
Talk:Qualcomm Flarion Technologies

This page was nominated for deletion on February 6 2005, the consensus was to Keep. see Votes for deletion/Flarion. Rje 06:12, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Qualcomm Flarion Technologies


text:
HardBall!

HardBall! is a baseball video game published by Accolade. Initially released for the Commodore 64 in 1985, it was ported to other computers over the next several years. A Sega Genesis cartridge was published in 1991. HardBall! was followed by sequels HardBall II, HardBall III, HardBall IV, HardBall 5, and HardBall 6.

Gameplay

Play is controlled with a joystick or arrow keys and an action button. One of the four cardinal directions is used to choose the pitch, and again to aim it towards low, high, inside (towards batter), or outside (away from batter). The same directions are used to aim the swing when batting. When fielding after a hit, the defensive player closest to the ball will flash to show it is the one currently under control. The four directions are then used to throw to one of the four bases.

Hardball! was one of the first baseball video games to incorporate the perspective from the pitcher's mound, similar to MLB broadcasts. There are also managerial options available. The player has a selection of pitchers to choose from. Each team member has his own statistics that affect his performance, and can be rearranged as desired. Prior to HardBall!s release, there were managerial baseball games available, such as MicroLeague Baseball but HardBall! was the first to integrate that aspect with the arcade control of the game action itself.

Reception
Hardball! was a commercial blockbuster. The Commodore 64 topped the UK sales chart in March 1986. It went on to become Accolade's best-selling Commodore game as of late 1987, and by 1989 had surpassed 500,000 units sold.

Info rated Hardball! four-plus stars out of five, stating that it "is easily the best baseball simulation we have seen to date for the 64/128" and praising its graphics. ANALOG Computing praised the Atari 8-bit version's gameplay, graphic, and animation, only criticizing the computer opponent's low difficulty level. The magazine concluded that the game "is in a league of its own, above all other Atari sports games—simulations included".

In an overview of statistics-oriented baseball games, Computer Gaming World stated that Hardball "would probably be disappointing to anyone other than an avid arcade fan". Compute!'s Apple Applications stated that the Apple II and Macintosh versions had "almost everything you could want from a baseball simulation", with good support for playing as manager, player, or statistician and "exceptionally clear and precise graphics". The magazine concluded that "Hardball's realism is outstanding—at a level unmatched by other baseball software to date". The game was reviewed in 1988 in Dragon #132 by Hartley, Patricia, and Kirk Lesser in "The Role of Computers" column. The reviewers gave the game 5 out of 5 stars. MegaTech gave the Genesis version a score of 75% writing: "A decent baseball game which doesn’t have enough novel or interesting features to make it appeal to anyone other then real fans of the sport."

Entertainment Weekly picked the game as the #11 greatest game available in 1991, saying: "With its oversaturated colors, ultrarealistic sound effects (when the umpire shouts 'Play ball!' it sounds as if he’s in the room), and detailed managerial options, HardBall! is the closest you may ever get to playing in a real major-league ballpark."

Legacy
The game appears in the opening scene of the 1987 film The Princess Bride, being played by Fred Savage.

title: HardBall!


text:
Talk:Paper

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2022
There is a spelling mistake 182.255.118.222 (talk) 01:03, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 01:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Making paper
How do you make paper? 2600:6C4A:74F0:450:50F7:3781:1291:80F1 (talk) 21:11, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Paper


text: User talk:203.17.46.78

title: User talk:203.17.46.78


text:
User:Keane India

Heloo, I am based in India and am into software industry.

title: User:Keane India