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Talk:Julia Stiles/Archive 1

Dates, Links,References, NPOV
''The discussions here concern Wikipedia issues rather than discussions of the article's substance. Please put questions about factual issues in new sections below.''

User:PedanticallySpeaking explains
I rolled back changes today because they deleted a lot of material. Critical quotes gave this piece life, unlike many Hollywood biographies here which are pro forma lists of IMDB credits. I'll certainly admit I could phrase a couple things better, but why remove all this stuff? PedanticallySpeaking 16:20, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master questions his reversions
Your revert was entirely unjustified but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just misguided about this article's quality. Here are but some of the reasons for the changes I made:
 * The critic review quotations are super POV violations and unnecessary in a biography (wikipedia isn't rottentomatoes.com), especially the fact they were all in the very first paragraph.
 * Too many wiki links (poor readibility)
 * Too many red wiki links (poor readibility)
 * The article's tone is more like a six degrees of separation game than a succinct biography
 * Related: no need to list every person involved with every play and every movie she's ever been in, for example "David Mamet" as the person behind "Oleanna" is not only non note worthy on multiple levels, overall such referencing detracts from article quality.
 * "Acclaim" for film Wicked at sundance is perhaps not only an overstated POV violation, but also uncited. Do we mention plot details for each non noteworthy movie an actor or actress has starred in?
 * Which is better POV wise "The role that made her a star was" Vs "Her first major role was"?
 * And "Her first major role was" Vs "Her next film was" (original version inconsistent)
 * Dates not in the first paragraph or directly related to an article should not be wiki linked in my opinion.
 * zen master   T  16:49, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Violetriga on wikilinked dates

 * Let me just correct that last one - all dates should be wikilinked. violet/riga (t) 16:55, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master replies to her

 * I disagree, extra wiki links that no one is likely to click on detract from article quality and also slow wikipedia down. For a celebrity's birthday it is conveivable that someone would want to find out other stuff that happened that day etc, but for random information it detracts from article quality.  How hard is it for someone to type "April 4" into the search box?  What do you think of my other concerns listed above violetriga?  wikilinking should only be applied to "for further information" sort of links, the majority of dates in articles do not fit this criteria. zen master    T  17:01, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Violetriga replies again

 * All dates should be linked so that they show up as per the preference of the users - for me (and many others) it's horrible to see the day after the month. Linking the dates allows the wiki software to switch it to the style the user has chosen.  It's noted at Manual of Style (dates and numbers).  As for the other points, yes I do agree that there is a lot of POV text, unrequired namechecks and red links. violet/riga (t) 17:09, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master responds

 * Ok, should I revert Pedantically's revert then? How should I go about perhaps changing wikipedia policy regarding dates?  I consider it common sense to keep wiki linking down to just the core essence of an article.  The more things that are wikilinked the more it leads to chaos in my opinion. zen master    T  17:35, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:PedanticallySpeaking explains quotes and links

 * The quotes from critics are in line with the policy at NPOV, which says that if opinions are attributed they are usable. As for the dates, it was my understanding that all dates should be in wiki form so users settings will display them in the form they desire, as Violetriga states.  I do cite co-stars, directors, writers of films because that tells me something.  The one you noted, that the play was by David Mamet, tells me something about the work and if she's doing his stuff she must be well regarded.   The sentence about "made her a star" is there because it was not her first lead and it was indeed the first role that was widely seen.  Now, I will go consult my commonplace books for some cites for this material, including the Sundance reference.  PedanticallySpeaking 17:48, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master questions neutrality of the article
You are ignoring the criticism of massive POV in the article? I do not believe the paragraph the quotations is contained in is inline with wikipedia policy, the POV is outside the quoted text. For example "Hailed" etc etc. violetriga seems to disagree with you above? I consider the clean up changes I made to be obvious. Are you a fan of Julia Stiles or something? zen master   T  17:53, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * "despite her youth" is POV. She is 24.  If you are trying to say she won a lot of awards at a young age why not just say it like this?  Though "a lot" is a tad relative/POV.  I contend that the changes I made are a better starting point for further clean ups than what your initial "inuse" clean ups seem to be producing.  You still have not adequately justified your revert of my changes?  The obviousness of my changes subsequently being reverted is frustrating (though I admit my stance on date wiki linking is perhaps not mainstream).  All those wiki link references can't be notable can they?  I think you are a Julia Stiles fan now :-)  me too but NPOV is important. zen master    T  18:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm about to get kicked off this computer at the library so I'm afraid I'll have to reply another day. PedanticallySpeaking 18:15, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, however, since you did not previously justify your revert of my changes, and in some ways your changes have made the article worse (continues the POV more subtley), I am going to go ahead and edit the article again, though this time I will try not to delete as much information. If you have any problems with my changes the talk page is always open (first). zen master    T  18:22, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:PedanticallySpeaking doesn't understand the objection

 * I asked and was given some more time. First, what POV?  I've looked through it several times and I don't see what you mean.  Second, I am looking for our policy re links but haven't found it.  Further, I don't understand the objection to linking other articles and the number of red links is small.  Third, "despite her youth" is because I don't know of many other young actresses who have garnered the praise she has.  Fourth, by the by and fyi the table of films I had no hand in creating.  Fifth, I don't understand the objection to mentioning plot details.  There are so many movies out there, often with un-memorable titles (e.g. Down to You), that a few words of plot is helpful.  Many of the James Bond movie titles are soundalikes to me and I need a bit of explanation, say "'You Only Live Twice' has Donald Pleasance snatching spacecraft from his volcano lair".  Now if we were writing for Katz's "Film Encyclopedia" for economy's sake we wouldn't do this, but since there aren't space constraints, what's the harm?  Her later films I glossed over, I'll admit, because I got to working on other things and while intending to come back to it, I forgot to return, to be honest.  PedanticallySpeaking 18:35, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

User:PedanticallySpeaking questions deletions and links

 * Two notes, you deleted her parents' names. It's standard biographical practice to include this, e.g. it's one of the first things in every entry in the American National Biography.  Second, the place of birth should not go in the lead per the stylebook.  See Manual_of_Style_%28biographies%29.  PedanticallySpeaking 18:40, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * See Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context for guidelines about what to link to. Perhaps a couple of her movies without articles, e.g. I Love You, could go, but for the most part I don't understand your objection.  PedanticallySpeaking 19:05, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master replies on deletions and links

 * I did errantly delete her parents names in my original edit, that was a mistake, sorry. By lead you mean the first sentence or first paragraph? Her birthplace currently resides in the second sentence.  There are numerous other celebrity bio or other articles on wikipedia that violate the manual of style rule(s) you cite yet those articles are actually much more pleasant to read (because they don't contain as many unnecessary wiki links, red or otherwise).  A rule should never force someone to violate common sense.  See the Natalie Portman article for an example of a high but sane number of wikilinks and a much more pleasant reading experience, though that article admittedly contains less information (which is part of the problem here).   Check the most recent changes I made to the article for POV issues, words like "acclaim" instead of "buzz" etc. zen master    T  19:10, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master questions the bibliography

 * Pedantically, this is a biographical article, there shouldn't be much need to cite things? If you include that many positive citations then we should probably include some negative ones as well, right?  Why do you include the date for each citation, is that really necessary?  What you are doing is completely non-standard when compared with other celebrity bio-graphical articles, in my opinion it adds woefully unnecessary verbosity to the article.  Anyway, what did you think of the changes I made yesterday?  zen master    T  15:15, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey Pedantically, I removed your References section because they weren't actually references to any sort of opinion style arguments, they were merely just quotations and reviews, I can help you put some of that stuff into wikiquote if you want me to help? Some can be moved to the Awards and reviews section, albeit less verbosely (no need to add that many wikilinks).  Also, you weren't actually citing sources for those statements, you were wikilinking to other (many non-existant) articles within wikipedia.  References should cite to specific sources, generally that are arguing for some sort of position -- critical reviews and quotations are something all together different.  Please let me know what you think about my change.  zen master    T  17:17, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:PedanticallySpeaking replies on the reference section
*In your edit summary you said I "wandered off". The Wikipedia crashed this morning in the midst of my responding to your earlier criticism and never came back up. I was going to do some rewriting but the server troubles prevented that. As for your changes, I do not approve because they fracture the chronological order of the article. And "buzz" is not a better word than "acclaim". PedanticallySpeaking 19:27, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't win with you. Yesterday you complained I didn't cite things and then when I go and draw up a bibliography you complain about too many cites and then delete the entire thing.  A precise citation, including dates of articles, is called for in Cite your sources, which gives examples in APA style (I used MLA style, however).  I don't understand why you deleted all my cites.  So what if other biographies don't have bibliographies?  When I submitted another biography to WP:FAC I was criticized then for not having references.

User:Zen-master says references weren't proper cites

 * Pedant, you weren't actually citing to actual quotations or to the actual sources of what someone said, for example, your references to a quote or review allegedly from a magazine only contained just a wiki link to that magazine's article on wikipedia, which doesn't count as a reference. A reference section is different than what you put together, you should link to the article quotation or review, the Awards and reviews section also has this problem, we should fix that but it's small enough to where it isn't a big deal, is it?  If you want me to I can look for good examples of reference sections on wikipedia?  What do you think of putting some Julia Stiles quotations in wikiquote?  Also, on a higer level, celebrity articles don't generally need a reference section, there is nothing under dispute in the article is there, so no need to cite anything, unless you are saying there is something under dispute?  If so, what is it?  If I said you weren't citing anything then I take that back, there is no need to cite much of anything in a non controversial biographical article.  Do you agree that we have improved this article's quality over the last few days? zen master    T  19:39, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:PedanticallySpeaking replies at length to User:Zen-master
Zen-master, I am trying to comprehend the basis for your claims but do still not understand. I have cited the Wikipedia guideline pages that address the points you raise and do so again below. Please read them.
 * You write that a bibliography is not needed because the material is not disputed. The instructions on Cite your sources read:   "you should actively search for authoritative references to cite . . . . This applies even when the information is currently undisputed — even if there's no dispute right now, someone might come along in five years and want to dispute, verify, or learn more about a topic."
 * You write that "celebrity articles don't generally need a reference section" but I have read through Cite your sources and Manual of Style (biographies) and see nothing about who is or is not worthy of a bibliography. The criteria at What is a featured article (the idea being that all articles aspire to "featured" status) say to give references and some of my nominees at WP:FAC were shot down for lacking references.
 * You write that citing print publications' articles are is not proper references because there is not a URL link to the article. Again, on Cite your sources, there are numerous citations to printed materials.
 * You object to quotations in an article as violating the NPOV guidelines notwithstanding the instruction at NPOV, which states: "Wikipedia is devoted to stating facts and only facts. Where we might want to state opinions, we convert that opinion into a fact by attributing the opinion to someone. So, rather than asserting, 'The Beatles was the greatest band', we can say, 'Most Americans believe that the Beatles was the greatest band,' which is a fact verifiable by survey results, or 'The Beatles had many songs that made the Billboard Hot 100,' which is also fact. In the first instance we assert an opinion; in the second and third instances we 'convert' that opinion into fact by attributing it to someone. It's important to note this formulation is substantially different from the 'some people believe ...' formulation popular in political debates. The reference requires an identifiable and subjectively quantifiable population or, better still, a name."  I had your comments in mind in reading Arthur Miller's obituary in the New York Times on February 12, 2005.  I counted twelve quotations from the deceased (plus several lines from his plays) an quotations from seven others, four of them critics.  Critical opinions do have a place in biographies.   (If you want to create a page for her on Wikiquote, I do not object.)
 * As I explained, troubles with Wikipedia's computers interrupted my work. I had typed up the bibliography and was going to revamp the article when the server crashed.  The bibliography included not merely entries of reviews but reference books and profiles of the actress.  Each entry had a remark noting what was in the cited work that I used.
 * I do not agree that your changes have improved the article. You have scrambled the chronology, created an unnecessary list (lists being another bugaboo to WP:FAC candidacies), and drained any life out of the article.  I will concede there is merit in separate sections for her stage and film careers, but I do not believe your edits are improvements.

PedanticallySpeaking 18:54, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC) (P.S.  I will be away a few days after today.)

User:Sketchee comments

 * I mostly agree with PS on the above points: NPOV doesn't mean having no point of view displayed in Wikipedia articles, only that various points of view should be discussed.  Any point of view given should be attributed to the author from a publication.  If it is a fact that some people love Julia Stiles and some people dislike her work, both views should be represented allowing the reader to draw their own conclusions.  The organization or use of such information could be POV, but it's inclusion is not only allowed but somewhat encouraged.  A link isn't needed for information solely in print publications. All information should be cited in a references section (this is not currently the case with most articles but we're actively trying to cahnge this).  An external links section is not a reference section and if a link is used as a reference it can appear in both. The date format isn't going to change anytime soon for the both practical and technical reasons already given.  Try avoiding reverts as much as possible. Instead use them and keep this as a collaborative effort; a compromise between both view points can hopefully be reached here. :) --Sketchee 21:29, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master comments

 * First, I think what PedanticallySpeaking added to the article, even though it was labeled as a Reference section, was the farthest thing from actually being a reference section. Pedantically did not link directly to the source of any quotation or reference, not once, all links in that section were to within wikipedia.  It seemed as if Pedantically was just trying to create hundreds of extra wiki links in an article seemingly for no other reason than to damage the quality of an article with unnecessary length.

 * Second, can Pedantically please state concisely what he thinks I am claiming? Because there seems to be a large disconnect between what he says I am claiming and what I am actually claiming.  The original version of this article had POV issues, I cleaned them up.  If you disagree we can go through them one at a time.  It is completely non-standard to put 3 positive review quotations in the *intro* paragraph of a biographical article so I created the awards and reviews section.  I also removed a sentence from the article that stated Julia is an "MTV darling", in the checkin comments I said we can and perhaps should add that back with a citation.

 * Third, I disagree that the article is worse now quality wise, I think most anyone would agree it is better, especially if they actually take a look at the edits I made, and don't believe how Pedantically is trying to mis-characterize them. If anyone truly believes this article is worse now than before I'd be happy to go through the RFC or arbitration process so we get more eyes on this article.

 * Fourth, other than the obvious POV problems that I corrected, I did remove or down play some of the other positive POV quotes/reviews because the article was completely unbalanced, there were no negative reviews and I don't want to have to go out and add that to achieve any semblence of balance, better to just not be totally overboard on the positive side of POV. Pedantically, once you start adding too much positive POV people will come along and demand lengthy negative POV sections, I did not want that to happen here. zen master    T  00:05, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:Zen-master: "Recent changes good, but there's a little POV now"

 * Hey Pedantically, your recent changes are very good but I think there is a little fan POV in the article now. The sentence that discusses Stiles' "admirers" and compares her to other actresses is fraught with POV and such comparisons are generally not a good idea, don't you think?  Also, mentioning author diversity in the intro paragraph is a little much, how many people have performed in a play written by Shakespear?  Maybe we should move that info to the stage or film sections?  I don't think we should mention specific movies in the intro section either.  The way the "critical success" sentence is worded seems slightly POV.  Why are you putting critical review quotations in the film career section, those should go in a separate section perhaps (how about bringing back the awards and reviews section)?   Do bio-graphical articles for actors/actress often include this many review quotations?

 * My personal preference would be not to wiki link dates and years that are not in the intro paragraph and that aren't important to the essence of the article but I won't change those for now at least. The same year certainly shouldn't be wikilinked more than once in an article.  Though, wiki links to something like the 1950s would be much more relevant and note worthy than a link to the specific year 1953 since that is relevant to the movie she was in, don't you think?  Is it note-worthy Stiles played a Wisconsin co-ed as opposed to just a co-ed?  Why wikilink both Dubya and Jenna Bush?  If someone doesn't know who Jenna Bush is they can click on the wiki link for her, it's redundant to include both and wiki link both.

T*here are a lot of red links we should either unwikify or create stub articles for? zen master   T  18:15, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

User:PedanticallySpeaking on his style, linking
Zen-master, Many of my articles' leads were just one sentence, something like "Julia Stiles (born March 18, 1981) is an American film and stage actress". When I submitted articles for Peer Review and FAC, my leads were criticized for not being full enough. See the featured article of the day on the main page and you'll see the lead is pretty long. I wanted to briefly summarize the whole article in a couple sentences, which is why there appears to be repetitous material. It gives readers a couple credits so they know who she is in case they don't want to read the whole thing. I don't see any problem with who her admirers compare her to and each of those references is cited in the body of the article. I looked through the list of featured articles and I didn't see any actors so it's hard to say what the ideal is. Critical quotations are important because they give flavor and show the person's standing. Witness the obituary of Arthur Miller I referenced above. I don't have the citation at hand, but I thought it was our SOP to wiki all dates. For most of them in the article, you'll note they are not merely year links, e.g. 1999, but rather 1999 in film. The fact she is from Wisconsin is relevant to the film. Paige is a farm girl from Wisconsin, a different breed than a co-ed from the Southland or Gotham. And I believe our policy on links is to be inclusive, especially when there's already an article, e.g. George W. Bush and it is relevant to the context. Are many people looking at this article likely to click on his link? Probably not. But what if someone wondered if there was material on Bush's parodists, such as Will Ferrell, or his place in comedy? Then you could do one click and see. It is certainly relevant to mention him because I don't know that the name Jenna Bush is universally recognized and it's good form to give a couple words about who she is so people don't have to go to another article. That's also my explanation for mentioning co-stars and directors, so people can place the material without resort to other article. FYI, I've posted this article on peer review and I hope the community will be able to help us out too. Ave atque vale! PedanticallySpeaking 19:10, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC) P.S. Thank you for your praise of my changes

Zen-master: "Intro is increasingly POV"

 * hailed as "the thinking teenagers' movie goddess" by a film critic writing for The New York Times. I know all us fanboi's love Ms. Stiles but I don't think that sentence is appropriate for this article, certainly not in the intro nor written like that, and what is with wiki links to the generic publication like the New York Times but *not* a link to the actual citation?  If it isn't a link to the actual citation it shouldn't be wiki linked in my opinion. zen master    T  05:35, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Staxringold's issues with the article

 * There is next to inline citation, and the entire "Film Career" section is reference free (despite some direct quotes in the early paragraphs). I don't know how many of the inline citations reference these, but they should be converted to inline citation or removed, as if they reference something directly they should be inline and if they don't they shouldn't be mentioned in the article. Staxringold 00:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Linking dates
''This discussion concerns whether all dates should be linked, even ones that were inconsequential, e.g. those in citations to newspaper and magazine articles. The discussion was also conducted at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers). Please post comments on questions of the substance of the article in a new section at the bottom of the page.''

Niteowlneils states the MoS policy

 * Per Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29, dates should always be linked so they are formatted according to users' preferences. Niteowlneils 22:31, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master reiterates his view

 * I have stated many times previously that dates should not be wikilinked when they are completely irrelevant to the article. How does wikilinking June 5 inside the *references* section help users find out more info about Julia Stiles?  I have proposed on a manual of style talk page that dates should not be wiki linked as often as they seem to be, how should I go about fixing wikipedia policy on this issue?  Also, it is rather silly for a biographical article to have a references section, perhaps it should be removed and/or turned into a citations sections that contains direct citations to the quotations and criticisms of reviewers and magazines used in the article? zen master    T  22:49, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cburnett disagrees with Zen-master

 * 1) I disagree with your opinion on the MoS of dates.
 * 1b) Your disagreement about the Mos does not constitute others' edits as "vandalism"

 * 2) I see no valid reason to remove references. Considering the number of quotes, they are extremely important.  If anything, I think they need to be directly linked into the text for better referencing.
 * --Cburnett 22:58, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master explains his de-linking

 * Sorry, I considered it vandalism because the editor tried to justify the date wikilinks as somehow helpful to the refences in question which is simply not true. How do *ANY* of those date wikilinks help the quality of the article?  Is there any Julia Stiles info on the June 5 article?  I do not support the removal of date wiki links for things like a celebrity's birthday or other similarly important dates related to an articl, but dates inside a reference section does not qualify. I agree that a reference section should primarily contain links to the external sources cited in the article. zen master    T  23:07, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cburnett: "Do you pay attention"

 * "The editor"? Do you pay any attention to what you're doing?  You are talking to "the editor". Cburnett 23:08, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master apologizes for "vandalism" charge

 * I did realize that (I was posting so third parties understand the situation and I wanted to move on after apologizing to you for accusing you of traditional vandalism). Are you going to use this as an excuse to ignore my points now? zen master    T  23:18, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

RickK suggests this isn't proper forum for debate

 * If you have a problem with linking dates, take it up at the MoS Talk page. Until then, please follow policy.  Linking dates allows a User's Preferences to go into effect so as to display the date in the method they prefer.  RickK 23:34, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

Notice the discussion moved elsewhere

 * Note that the discussion has moved to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) as per zen-master's actions of posting it there. Don't see the point in arguing here until the argument on the MoS talk page is resolved. Cburnett 23:35, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master says there isn't a policy re linking years

 * It seems there is no wikipedia policy that states years must be wikilinked, Cburnett (or others) would you support the removal of some/all year wikilinks inside the references section? Perhaps we should refer people to the specific issue number for a particular magazine, not their date (or link the reference directly to the citation)?  Also, as far as wikilinking dates for international formatting reasons goes it actually makes more sense not to wikilink dates in this case I believe.  For example, if there is a reference to say the October 28th version of a U.S. magazine then it would be incorrect for the wikipedia date preference formatting to change that to 28 October, wouldn't it? zen master    T  00:58, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Violetriga says all dates should be linked

 * It's OK to remove years that are not part of a date, but otherwise they should be linked. And no, it does not make more sense to force a date style because of the origin of the magazine. violet/riga (t) 08:33, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cburnett reports on MoS disccussion

 * You've all but "lost" the discussion on the MoS talk page so now you're asking me (the vandal) and others to agree to removing them. If I ever would have agreed to remove links, I wouldn't have gotten into this. Cburnett 16:13, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've pretty much lost the date format battle for now it seems, sorry again for accusing you of vandalism in my checkin comment. zen master   T  17:12, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

A proposal by Zen-master
Would people support rewritting or even removing the references section in this article so excessive wikilinking because of date formating is no longer an issue? (we really ought to use citations, not a traditional print reference section anyway) What do people think? zen master   T  16:34, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

PedanticallySpeaking opposes it
I am adamantly against removing the reference section. All articles, especially ones which are WP:FA such as this need references. If you can find these materials on the web, then by all means add the citation to the print one. But because of the ephermal quality of everything on the internet and the frequency that links go dead, it is vital to have references to printed materials which will continue to be available. See the Manual of Style for many examples of citations to printed sources. PedanticallySpeaking 16:44, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

Zen-master asks about formatting
Ok, I suppose a biographical article can have a reference section and you make a good case for the need for permanent off-line sources. What about the idea of rewriting the reference section so that date formatting (and excessive wikilinking) is no longer an issue? zen master   T  17:09, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

PedanticallySpeaking says it is MLA
The citations are in proper MLA style, which I try to use for its lucid format. Rewriting would not serve any purpose. Again, the linking is not excessive because the MoS states that when the context warrants it, articles should be wiki-linked. PedanticallySpeaking 17:27, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

Proper Forum?
To the editors:

I must admit I'm a little baffled by how Wikipedia works, so maybe you can help.

Most immediately, I would like to publish commentary on the work of Julia Stiles (whom I believe to be one of our very few truly important actors--those whose work will fundamentally change the art form), but of other performers, directors and films as well, many of which have received little or, in my opinion, wrong-headed attention. My comments might be classifiable as a hybrid of art history and film criticism, and I would welcome discussion of anything I might write.

For the record, I have no connection with Ms. Stiles or her publicity people.

I'm intrigued by Wikipedia, but if it isn't the appropriate venue for what I propose, could you suggest other sites? Any direction you might offer would be greatly appreciated.

Marshall Fallwell, Jr.

PS replies
Salve, Marshall! What you propose sounds inappropriate here. We are trying to compile factual, encyclopedia articles on Stiles et alia. Now, if you propose is to write up factual articles with critical opinions from others (film critics, fellow actors) as I've tried to do here and at Katie Holmes, then that's great. Welcome. But if you are thinking of writing your own commentary, a blog would be a bettter fit. Look here for how to get a free blog. Ave! User:PedanticallySpeaking.

Phoe6 Asks This
Featured Article, as Wikipedia says, is an example of community work. I searched for how Julia Stiles featured in this category and I did not find a mass appeal for a featured article request. I had only heard of Julia Stiles, but never knew about her talents, importance etc. But knowing a comperory actress through Wikipedia Featured article is kind of intruging. Is she so great? Then why is she not celebrated all over the world? What is reason for chosing Julia stiles for Featured Article? Is someone working on Julia Roberts for Featured Article as well? Phoe6 (sig added by Cburnett)

Cburnett Explains
Note: please sign your posts with ~ so we know who wrote it.

It's not a matter of saying Julia Stiles is amongst the best, but that the article about her is amongst the best. Cburnett 07:58, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Niteowlneils Explains
To expand on that, the article gained featured status because an editor happened to choose it as a target for expansion, and with the help of over two dozen other more minor editors, managed to get it to meet the Featured Article criteria, per the judgement of the people who voted at Featured article candidates/Julia Stiles, after it was nominated as a Featured Article Candidate. The editor's choice of article to try to develop into Featured Article status doesn't reflect any judgement as to the importance/fame/notability/etc. of the subject--pretty much any article, about any subject, regardless of import, is eligible to become featured, as long as it meets the criteria. Ideally, over time, most, if not all, Wikipedia articles will meet the Featured Article criteria. Niteowlneils 10:01, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Phoe6 Replies
Thanks for your comments. I understand now better the requirements of FA 143.166.255.16 16:32, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)|Phoe6

Unregistered User Also Asks Why It's Featured
My question: who's idea was it to feature this article? We follow up the Soviet Military, Yellowstone, and a dangerous virus with this? Excuse me, but I doubt that many people are interested in such an inconsequential actor. 68.100.255.152 (sig added by Cburnett)

Cburnett Answers
Note: please sign your posts with ~ so we know who wrote it, even if you want to be an anonymous.

Your reply is borderline trollish and I almost just reverted the page since you can't seem to post in the correct location. Cburnett 23:42, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Another Reply by Niteowlneils
In addition to my comments in the section immediately above:
 * 1) Choosing featured articles based on relative importance would violate Wikipedia's 'neutral point of view' policy
 * 2) Similarly, your comments reflect your personal preference. For example, I would prefer to read about an up-and-coming actor, rather than an article about pet skunks, but others would disagree.
 * 3) Wikipedia's mission is NOT to cover 'important' human knowledge, but ALL human knowledge. Niteowlneils 00:14, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Filmography ordering
Are we all agreed the most recent movie should be at the top? I've been noticing that someone has been changing some other actor/actress bio pages to reverse the filmography section to have most recent at the bottom. Can we make it a wikipedia standard that the most recent movie should be at the top? zen master   T  02:22, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree. Seems more natural to have the most recent at the top. Cburnett 04:29, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

no. wikipolicy is clear, for lists of works, recent goes at bottom. dont use imdb as a style guide, it has commercial interests dictating its style. the filmography is upside down on this article, should be in chronological order (see all the style guides). please reverse it, or this article will be removed from FA list. Zzzzz 11:15, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I use newest first since that's the first entry you see and their most recently done. It's basic web design theory at work here: put the most sought info towards the top.   I don't want to have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find what movies they did that will be coming out soon.  As you said, there's no policy on this but that's what makes sense to me.  If you want oldest first just to be different from IMDB, well that's just dumb, IMHO.

 * And even as is it is still in chronological order. I hate to ask, but I assume you know what that means, right?

 * And where does it state that it has to be newest last to be a FA? It's still in chronological order and that sounds like a threat. Cburnett 13:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

this is supposed to be an encyclopedia not a fanpage so "basic web design theory" means nothing. there *is* clear wikipolicy, see Filmographies or Manual of Style (lists of works). recent goes at bottom. end of story. Zzzzz 13:18, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Who said web page design theory applies to fanpages and not encyclopedias? Do you even know what I'm talking about?

 * There is no clear policy:

 * This Wikipedia article or category is currently inactive and is kept primarily for historical interest.

 * on both pages you link. Aside from understanding web page theory, it also appears you need to understand the differences between "policy" and "guideline" as well as  "inactive".  It is most certainly not end of story.  Cburnett 03:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

A further note. Zzzzz changed the Filmographies to fit his argument so he could use it as an authoritative source (despite it being inactive). I've started discussion on Wikipedia talk:Filmographies to address this since Zzzzz is scattering discussion on many articles' talk page. Please continue this discussion there. Cburnett 03:25, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 15:09, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Archive
Discussions before July 1, 2006 can be found at Talk:Julia Stiles/Archive 1.

I archived the older discussion on this page because most of it related to issues long ago and had little currency to today. PedanticallySpeaking 17:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Not to criticise...
I think that for a FA, the prose's flow is a little underwhelming. Some sections, especially "Personal life", are comprised of list-like short paragraphs, which need improving to keep in line with the high quality of the rest of the article. Seegoon 12:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

...moreover, Talk:Julia Stiles/Comments has some more points to address... --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 17:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

References, notes
The article seems to have a sizable References section as well as a sizable notes section. What is the difference? --GargoyleMT 03:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

LOL -- Cafeteria Workers? (re: article)
I attended Columbia at the time this happened (*and* was working at the Dining Hall at the time). In fact, I typed a transcript of her appearance which I circulated the day after her interview aired. Despite all that, even *I* don't think this sort of minor nonsense is worthy of inclusion into an article that aspires to be encyclopedic. I mean, really. 76.89.181.133 (talk) 05:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC) -- Interested Observer

Birthplace
I thought she was born in Point Pleasant, NJ?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 02:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JuliaStiles101.jpg
Image:JuliaStiles101.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

First Film?
Would not Wide Awake (1998 film) technically be her first film (1995) even though it was not released for 3 years (1998)? As far as first film to be released in which she appeared in, the 1996 film given in the article would be accurate, though. — al-Shimoni  (talk) 22:53, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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Made (2001 film) + Julia Stiles ?
In Made (2001 film) there were several "Club Girl (uncredited)" roles (such as Drea de Matteo and Jennifer Esposito) during the first nightlounge scenes from around 0:51:40 to around 0:58:40, and I was wondering if it was Julia Stiles in the blue turtle neck and blonde braids under a dark bandana who was grooving around (in front and behind (poor continuity to fill the first club)) or by the main characters. Any lines she may have had were cut. Julia Stiles was not unknown in 2001 and actually starred in Save the Last Dance that same year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JasonCarswell (talk • contribs) 02:50, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Julia Stiles/Archive 1


text:
David Dunbar Buick

David Dunbar Buick (September 17, 1854 – March 5, 1929) was a Scottish-born American inventor, widely known for founding the Buick Motor Company. He headed this company and its predecessor from 1899–1906, thereby helping to create one of the most successful nameplates in United States motor vehicle history.

Early life, family and education
Buick was born in Arbroath, Scotland. He and his family moved to Detroit, Michigan when he was two years old.

He left school in 1869.

Career
Buick quit school and worked for a company which made plumbing goods. When the company ran into trouble in 1882, he and a partner purchased it. At this time, Buick began to show his promise as an inventor, producing many innovations including a lawn sprinkler and a method for permanently coating cast iron with vitreous enamel which allowed the production of "white" baths at lower cost (although cast iron baths are uncommon nowadays, the method is still in use for enameling them). With the combination of Buick's innovation and his partner's sound business management, the company became quite successful.

Buick Motor Company
During the 1890s, Buick developed an interest in internal combustion engines and began experimenting with them. He was spending little time on the plumbing business, and his business partner became impatient with him. The partnership was dissolved, and the company was sold.

Buick now had the time and capital to work on engines full-time, and he set up a new company, the Buick Auto-Vim and Power Company, in 1899 to do so. The stated aim of the company was to market engines for agricultural use. Buick soon turned to the development of a complete car, rather than just an engine. He also concentrated on research and development at the expense of manufacturing and sales. The result was that he consumed his capital by early-1902 without having generated any significant return, only a single car.

In early-1902, he established the Buick Manufacturing Company, with the objectives of marketing engines to other car companies, and manufacturing and selling its own cars. Manufacturing and development problems ensued, and, at the end of 1902, Buick was out of money with only one car to show for his work. The concentration on development had produced the revolutionary "Valve-in-Head" overhead valve engine. This method of engine construction produces a much more powerful engine than the rival side valve engine design used by all other manufacturers at the time. Overhead valve engines are used by most car manufacturers today, but now only General Motors (GM) and Chrysler produce the "push-rod" variant with any regularity. Since overhead cam engines are design variants of overhead valve engines, all modern engines are derivatives of Buick's invention.

The money ran out again, and in 1903 Buick was forced to raise more money via a $5,000 loan from a friend and fellow car enthusiast, Benjamin Briscoe. With this financial help, Buick formed the Buick Motor Company, which would eventually become the cornerstone of the General Motors empire.

Later life and business failure
In 1906, Buick accepted a severance package and left the company that he had founded, with only one share of the company in his possession. Then president of Buick, William C. Durant, bought this share from him for $100,000.

After unsuccessful investments in California oil and Florida land, and an attempt (with his son Tom) to manufacture carburetors, Buick made a brief return to the automotive business in 1921, as president of the short-lived Lorraine Motors, and in 1923 with the design of the Dunbar, an automobile prototype.

In an interview with historian Bruce Catton in 1928, Buick admitted that he was almost completely broke, unable to even afford a telephone, and worked as an instructor at the Detroit School of Trades. He died of colon cancer on March 5, 1929, at the age of 74 and was buried at Woodmere Cemetery in Detroit.

Commentator Theodore F. McManus noted that "Fame beckoned to David Buick. He sipped from the cup of greatness, and then spilled what it held." In 2000, automotive historian Vincent Curcio observed that "To date, over 35,000,000 motor cars have been built in his name, which will never be lost to history."

He was inducted into the Automotive Hall of Fame in 1974.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: David Dunbar Buick


text:
Maxey, Cambridgeshire

Maxey is a village in the Peterborough unitary authority, in the ceremonial county of Cambridgeshire, England, located between Peterborough and Stamford and southwest of The Deepings. It is home to nearly 700 residents.

The main focal points are the one remaining public house (Blue Bell), the Church (St Peter's) and the village hall. Each provides a range of social functions throughout the year. There are a surprising number of businesses based in the village, including a few working farms.

History
Once part of the Soke of Peterborough in Northamptonshire, Maxey can trace its 'modern' roots back over 1,000 years. However, archaeological excavation of the area has provided ample evidence of continuous occupation for over 4,000 years. Lolham Bridges, on the outskirts of Maxey between Helpston and Bainton, were originally built in the Roman era to carry King Street over the floodplain of the River Welland.

Rescue archaeology before gravel workings began revealed details of a large henge in Maxey. Discovered from Aerial Photographs in 1956 by J. K. St Joseph and last excavated by Francis Pryor in 1979-81 the henge was 126 metres in diameter, one of the largest known. It was part of an entire landscape of neolithic features, including a cursus and barrows. Along with the large and mysterious ritual village at nearby Etton, this collection of sites has featured in Pryor's writing about large-scale ritual landscapes.

The village web site has a detailed account of life in Maxey between the 9th and 12th centuries.

Surname
If your family has an uninterrupted bloodline, and no one decided to change their name by deed poll or similar, then you can be reasonably certain that anyone with the surname Maxey (or close derivative, i.e. Maxcy) has their ancestral origins in the village/environs of Maxey.

Businesses

 * Shaw's Coaches, Maxey. Bus services and coach outings
 * Blue Bell Public House
 * M.C Vehicle Engineers

Notable people

 * Sarah Cawood (born 1972), broadcaster
 * George Robinson (born 1997), actor

title: Maxey, Cambridgeshire


text:
Talk:Timeline of fictional contemporary events

Opinions on this Timeline?
This timeline was split off from the Timeline of fictional historical events without a whole lot of discussion, so I thought I would ask what people think about it. Should it be voted for deletion and the content merged back in, or is it a sensible and useful distinction? -- Logotu 16:24, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * It's going to be tricky to maintain this timeline, especially with the grand number of fictional contemporary events out there, as well as the ones that are being created each day. But if you can pull off what you are trying to do with this page without causing a whole lot of clutter, then I see no reason for it not to continue. --DXI 03:40, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

SUGGEST: limit this time line to the 20th and 21st Centuries. ALSO: spinoff a timeline entitled Cartoon, TV and Videogames Events and incorporate those listings from the other timelines - Really

What is the dividing line here anyway. What should be considered "fictional contemporary" and what should be "fictional historical". Sherlock Holmes' "death" is on this page and his return in on Timeline of fictional historical events prior to the 20th century and The events of The Wizard of Oz are listed on both. This distinction needs cleared up. Dallas69 14:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


text:
City Airline

City Airline AB was a regional airline based in the Air Cargo Building on the grounds of Göteborg Landvetter Airport in Landvetter, Härryda Municipality, Sweden. It was privately owned and operated a medium-sized European network from its main base at Landvetter. The airline was wholly owned by Investment AB Janus of Gothenburg and employed 110 staff (as of July 2007). On 29 November 2011 the City Airline name was dropped after being acquired by Skyways, and all flights were then operated under the Skyways brand. In May 2012 Skyways and City Airline filed for bankruptcy.

When City Airline filed for bankruptcy it was the only airline with a hub in Göteborg Landvetter Airport.

History
City Airline was established in 1997, originally operating wet leases for British Midland Airways. On 10 September 2001, it started its own regional services from Gothenburg, much of which correspond to the needs of large companies based in Gothenburg, most notably Volvo Cars with its links to Birmingham (Jaguar Cars), Volvo Trucks with links to Lyon (Renault Trucks) and AstraZeneca with links to Manchester Airport. It has from around 2008 expanded in the leisure market with destinations such as Barcelona, Nice and Mallorca.

City Airline has signed a codeshare agreement with Scandinavian Airlines from March 2006, which also made the SAS frequent flyer-program available on City Airline flights.

On 29 April 2011, City Airline announced that Swedish regional airline Skyways Express acquired the company and City Airline name will be dropped and all flights would operated under the Skyways brand.

On 22 May 2012, Skyways announced immediate cancellation of all flights due to lack of finances. Both City Airline AB and Skyways Express AB filed for bankruptcy.

Fleet
As of August 2011, the City Airline fleet included the following aircraft with an average age of 13.9 years:

title: City Airline


text:
St. Patrick's Old Cathedral

The Basilica of Saint Patrick's Old Cathedral, sometimes shortened to St. Patrick's Old Cathedral or simply Old St. Patrick's, is a Catholic parish church, a basilica, and the former cathedral of the Archdiocese of New York, located in the Nolita neighborhood of Lower Manhattan, New York City. Built between 1809 and 1815 and designed by Joseph-François Mangin in the Gothic Revival style, it was the seat of the archdiocese until the current St. Patrick's Cathedral in Midtown Manhattan opened in 1879. Currently, liturgies are celebrated in English, Spanish, and Chinese. The church is at 260–264 Mulberry Street between Prince and Houston streets, with the primary entrance on Mott Street. Old St. Patrick parish merged with Most Precious Blood parish, and the two churches share priests and administrative staff.

The Old St. Patrick's church building was designated a New York City landmark in 1966, and the cathedral complex was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1977. It was declared a minor basilica by Pope Benedict XVI on Saint Patrick's Day, March 17, 2010.

History

The first Catholic parish church in New York City was St. Peter's on Barclay Street, the cornerstone of which was laid in 1785. By the early 19th century, Anthony Kohlmann, the Jesuit rector of that church, realized that the city's growing Catholic population needed both a second sanctuary and a cathedral for the first bishop, since the city had been made a see in 1808. The site he selected for the new church was being used as a cemetery for St. Peter's, and was well outside the settled area of the city, surrounded by farmland and the country houses of the rich. The architect chosen was Joseph-Francois Mangin, who had co-designed New York's City Hall with John McComb Jr., construction on which was ongoing when the cornerstone of St. Patrick's was laid on June 8, 1809. Construction took just under six years, with the sanctuary being dedicated on May 14, 1815. In that same year, John Connolly, an Irish Dominican friar, arrived to take office as the city's first resident bishop. When complete, the church was the largest in the city. Its outer dimensions are 120 by 80 feet, and the inner vault is 85 feet high (37m x 24m x 26m).

Until 1830 the cathedral was the ending place of New York's annual St. Patrick's Day parade. After that, it ended further south along Mott Street at the Church of the Transfiguration, whose pastor, Felix Varela, was a Spanish political refugee from Cuba. In New York, he served as the chaplain off the Hibernian Universal Benevolent Society. Eventually, the parade moved uptown to pass in front of the new St. Patrick's Cathedral (1879).

In 1836, the original cathedral was the subject of an attempted sack after tensions between Irish Catholics and anti-catholic Know-Nothing nativists led to a number of riots and other physical confrontations. The situation worsened when a brain-injured young woman, Maria Monk, wrote a book telling her "true" story – a Protestant girl who converted to Catholicism, and was then allegedly forced by nuns to have sex with priests, with the resulting children being baptized then killed horribly. Despite the book being debunked by a mildly anti-Catholic magazine editor, nativist anger at the story resulted in a decision to attack the cathedral. Loopholes were cut in the church's outer walls, which had just recently been built in 1834, and the building was defended from the rioters with muskets. Afterwards, the Ancient Order of Hibernians established its headquarters across the street from the church.

In 1838, the cathedral was the location for the funeral of Lorenzo da Ponte, Mozart's primary librettist, who had fled to America in 1805 fearing bankruptcy. He became a professor at Columbia University and started what eventually became the Metropolitan Opera. The funeral was attended by an enormous number of people.

On October 13, 1859, the cathedral was the venue for the lavish wedding of the 55-year-old Don Esteban Santa Cruz de Oviedo, an immensely wealthy Cuban landowner and slave-owner, to the 18-year-old socialite, Frances Amelia Bartlett, daughter of Washington Allon Bartlett, the family of whom was residing on 14th Street. The marriage was heralded by the press as "The Diamond Wedding," after the luxurious preparations were revealed, including opulent gifts of jewelry by the groom. It also sparked public debate and mockery over the issue of May-December unions.

On October 7, 1866, the cathedral was gutted by a fire that spread from a nearby shop. Even though the new St. Patrick's was already under construction, the old cathedral was restored under the direction of architect Henry Engelbert. The first Mass was celebrated in the rebuilt cathedral on April 1, 1867. The new Old Cathedral was reopened in 1868.

Since the current St. Patrick's Cathedral opened in 1879, St. Patrick's Old Cathedral has been a parish church, the pastor residing in the old Bishop's House at 263 Mulberry Street. Today's multi-ethnic parish includes the territory of the former Most Holy Crucifix Parish, whose church for a time was the nearby Chapel of San Lorenzo Ruiz and housed the Filipino Catholic Apostolate for the Archdiocese of New York.

Cathedral complex
St. Patrick's Old Cathedral School at 32 Prince Street, across from the cathedral, predates the church itself. It was built in 1825–1826 as the Roman Catholic Orphan Asylum, operated by the Sisters of Charity. In 1851, the asylum became for girls only, and in 1886 became St. Patrick's Convent and Girls School, before turning co-educational again. The Federal-style building is a New York City landmark, designated in 1966. The school finally closed in 2010 as enrollment dwindled, and the building was converted into residential and office space.

In 1859, a "Gingerbread Gothic" Chancery Office Building was built at 266 Mulberry Street, just north of the sanctuary, designed by James Renwick Jr. and William Rodrigue, who would go on to design the new cathedral. The building would later become St. Michael's Chapel and, from 1936 until 2019, St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church of the Byzantine Rite. St. Michael's is the last Russian Catholic church in New York City, and was one of only four remaining such sanctuaries in the United States. Those services are now held at the Church of St. Catherine of Siena, 411 East 68th Street on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

Underneath the basilica are catacombs which currently consist of 35 family crypts and 5 clerical vaults, and which have reopened to new interments. The basilica has also opened the catacombs to walking tours. Among the notable interments are the first resident Bishop of New York John Connolly, General Thomas Eckert, several members of the Delmonico restaurant family, Countess Annie Leary, the prominent wine merchant Dominick Lynch, and Congressman John Kelly. In addition, two New Yorkers who are currently on the road to sainthood, Pierre Toussaint and Father Isaac Hecker, were originally interred there before being moved; Toussaint to the new St. Patrick's Cathedral, and Hecker to St. Paul the Apostle Church. The founding mother superior of New York's first Sisters of Mercy convent, Mary Agnes O'Connor, is also buried there.

Old St. Patrick's Cathedral gallery holds a large pipe organ that was built in 1868 by Henry Erben, originally operated without any use of electricity. After the new cathedral opened uptown in 1879, the Erben organ was left downtown with minimal alterations. In 2004, the Organ Historical Society designated it as an instrument of "exceptional historical merit, worthy of preservation", the organ equivalent of national landmark status. The instrument remains in use for Sunday services while awaiting further restoration.

title: St. Patrick's Old Cathedral


text: User talk:82.40.37.209

title: User talk:82.40.37.209


text:
Antonio Rinaldi (architect)

Antonio Rinaldi (Palermo, 25 August 1709 – Rome, 10 April 1794) was an Italian architect, trained by Luigi Vanvitelli, who worked mainly in Russia.

In 1751, during a trip to England, he was summoned by hetman Kirill Razumovsky to decorate his residences in Ukraine. To this early period belong the Resurrection cathedral in Pochep near Bryansk and the Catherine Cathedral in Yamburg, now Kingisepp near St Petersburg (illustrated, right), where Rinaldi successfully expressed the domed, centrally-planned form required by traditional Russian Orthodox practice in a confident Italian Late Baroque vocabulary.

His first important secular commission was the Novoznamenka chateau of Chancellor Woronzow. In 1754, he was appointed chief architect of the young court, i.e., the future Peter III and Catherine II, who resided at Oranienbaum. In that town he executed his best-known baroque designs: the Palace of Peter III (1758–60), the sumptuously decorated Chinese Palace (1762–68), and the Ice-Sliding Pavilion (1762–74).

In the 1770s, Rinaldi served as the main architect of Count Orlov, who was Catherine's prime favourite and the most powerful man in the country. During this period he built two grandiose Neoclassical residences, namely the Marble Palace on the Palace Embankment in St Petersburg and the roomy Gatchina Castle, which was subsequently acquired for Emperor Paul and partly remodeled. He also designed for Orlov several monuments in Tsarskoe Selo, notably the Orlov Gates, Kagul Obelisk and the Chesma Column. He completed the work started by Jean-Baptiste Vallin de la Mothe on the Catholic Church of St. Catherine.

Rinaldi's last works represent a continuous transition from the dazzling rococo of interiors to the reserved and clear-cut treatment of facades characteristic of Neoclassicism. These include two St Petersburg cathedrals, one dedicated to St Isaac the Dalmatian and subsequently demolished to make way for the present Empire-style structure, and the other, dedicated to Prince Vladimir and still standing.

In 1784, the old master resigned his posts on account of bad health and returned to Italy. He died in Rome in 1794.

title: Antonio Rinaldi (architect)


text:
User talk:Lee Teague

Catherine The Great

Catherine the great was born on April 21, 1729, at Stetin in Pomerania. She was born named, Sophie Augusta Fredricka. Her mother was Johanna Elizabeth of the Holstein Gottorp lineage, her alleged father was Prince Christian Augustus of Anhalt-Zerbst. Many sources claim she was in reality the illegentimate daughter of Fredrick 11 of Prussia. Catherine had a certain claim to the Crown of Sweden through her mother Johanna. Her father was a major General in the Prussian army. Catherine led a troubled childhood, she recieved little affection from her mother, and her father was gone most of the time. Sophie had three other siblings, Wilheim Christian Fredrick,Fredrick Augustus, and Elizabeth Augusta Christina, of the four only Sophie and Fredrick Augustus would live to adulthood. Sophie was constanly reminded by her mother that she was an ugly child. When she was seven Sophie caught pleriusy, according to the crude medical treatments back then, Sophies treatment.

title: User talk:Lee Teague


text: User talk:63.149.167.102

title: User talk:63.149.167.102


text: User talk:63.149.167.100

title: User talk:63.149.167.100


text:
Rinaldi

Rinaldi is a surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Alessandro Rinaldi (painter) (1839–1890), Cremonese historic painter
 * Alessandro Rinaldi (footballer) (born 1974), Italian soccer player
 * Andrea Rinaldi (2000–2020), Italian footballer
 * Ann Rinaldi (1934–2021), American young adult fiction author
 * Antonella Rinaldi (born 1954), Italian actress and voice actress
 * Antonio Rinaldi (architect) (с. 1710–1794), Italian architect
 * Antonio Maria Rinaldi (born 1955), Italian economist and politician
 * Bianca Rinaldi (born 1974), Brazilian actress
 * Carlos Rinaldi (1915–1995), Argentine film director and screenwriter
 * Cesare Rinaldi (1559–1636), Italian poet
 * Claudio Rinaldi (painter) (1852–after 1909), Italian painter
 * Claudio Rinaldi (speed skater) (born 1987), Italian short-track speed-skater
 * Daniel Gómez Rinaldi (born 1965), Argentine journalist
 * Danilo Rinaldi (born 1986), Argentine footballer
 * Deborah Salvatori Rinaldi (born 1991), Italian footballer
 * Domenico Rinaldi (born 1959), Italian diver
 * Douglas Rinaldi (born 1979), Brazilian footballer
 * Enrica Rinaldi (born 1998), Italian freestyle wrestler
 * François Rinaldi (1924–2002), French rugby league footballer
 * Gabriel Rinaldi (born 1970), Argentine football manager and former player
 * Giovanni Rinaldi Montorio (fl. 1538–1546), Roman Catholic prelate who served as Bishop of Narni
 * Jessica Rinaldi, Pulitzer Prize winning photojournalist
 * Jordan Rinaldi (born 1987), American mixed martial artist
 * Jorge Rinaldi (born 1963), Argentine retired footballer
 * Julien Rinaldi (born 1979), French rugby player
 * Juno Rinaldi (born 1977), Canadian actress
 * Kathy Rinaldi (born 1967), American tennis player
 * Lautaro Rinaldi (born 1993), Argentine footballer
 * Lou Rinaldi (born 1947), Canadian politician
 * Luigi Rinaldi (1938–2023), Italian trade unionist and politician
 * Margherita Rinaldi (1935–2023), Italian soprano
 * Matt Rinaldi (born 1975), Texas lawyer and state representative
 * Michael Ruben Rinaldi (born 1995), Italian motorcycle racer
 * Michele Rinaldi (footballer, born 1987), Italian soccer player
 * Nicholas Rinaldi (1934–2020), American poet and novelist
 * Nicolás Rinaldi (born 1993), Argentine footballer
 * Odorico Raynaldi (1595–1671), Italian Catholic historian
 * Redo Rinaldi (born 1994), Indonesian footballer
 * Rich Rinaldi (born 1949), American basketball player
 * Rudy Rinaldi (born 1993), Monegasque bobsledder
 * Susana Rinaldi (born 1935), Argentine tango singer
 * Tom Rinaldi, American sports commentator

title: Rinaldi


text:
Talk:Newquay

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.newquayoldcornwall.org.uk/industry/fishing.php. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.  Asartea  Talk  undefined  Contribs  14:03, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Newquay


text:
Plowshares movement

The Plowshares movement is an anti-nuclear weapons and Christian pacifist movement that advocates active resistance to war. The group often practices a form of protest that involves the damaging of weapons and military property. The movement gained notoriety in the early 1980s when several members damaged nuclear warhead nose cones and were subsequently convicted. The name refers to the text of prophet Isaiah who said that swords shall be beaten into plowshares.

History
The U.S. Plowshares group was deeply influenced by Catholicism and, in particular, the Catholic left movement of the late 1960s and the Catholic Worker Movement. The Plowshares movement takes its name from the idea of beating swords to ploughshares in the Book of Isaiah:

"And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

On September 9, 1980, Daniel Berrigan, his brother Philip Berrigan, and six others (the "Plowshares Eight") began the Plowshares Movement under the premise of beating swords to ploughshares. They trespassed onto the General Electric Re-entry Division in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, where Mark 12A reentry vehicles for the Minuteman III missile were made. They hammered on two reentry vehicles, poured blood on documents, and offered prayers for peace. They were arrested and charged with more than ten different felony and misdemeanor counts. On April 10, 1990, after 10 years of appeals, the Berrigans' group was re-sentenced and paroled for up to 23 and 1/2 months in consideration of time already served in prison. Their legal battle was re-created in Emile de Antonio's 1982 film In the King of Prussia, which starred Martin Sheen and featured appearances by the Plowshares Eight as themselves.

Actions
Other actions followed. In 1983, the "Plowshares Eight" entered AVCO Systems Division, a manufacturing plant for MX and Pershing II missiles in Wilmington, Massachusetts, and damaged plans and equipment. They were arrested. The subsequent trial, including testimony from historian Howard Zinn, is documented in the film The Trial of the AVCO Plowshares by Global Village Video. As of 2000, some 71 such actions happened on several continents. There have been several more such actions since 2000. The longest sentences given to individuals were those meted out to the 1984 group, the Silo Pruning Hooks, two of which were sentenced to 18 years in federal prison for entering a Minuteman II missile silo.

Pouring of blood
Pouring of blood is a controversial symbolic act that has been traditionally conducted by Plowshares activists including Susan Crane.

Recent actions
On April 30, 2008, three Plowshares activists entered the GCSB Waihopai base near Blenheim, New Zealand and punctured an inflated radome used in the ECHELON signal interception program, causing $1.2 million in damages. In March 2010 the three men stood trial by jury at the District Court in Wellington and were acquitted. The New Zealand Attorney-General then lodged a civil claim, on behalf of the GCSB, for $1.2 million. This claim was dropped in February 2014.

On November 2, 2009, a Plowshares action took place in the U.S. at Naval Base Kitsap-Bangor, where Trident nuclear weapons are stored or deployed on Trident submarines. These weapons constitute the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the US.

On July 28, 2012, three Plowshares activists, Megan Rice, Greg Boertje-Obed, and Michael Walli, who compose the Transform Now Plowshares movement, breached security at the U.S. Department of Energy's Y-12 National Security Complex in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, causing the government to temporarily shut down the weapons facility. Once inside a "secure" area, the activists hung protest banners on a uranium storage site, poured human blood and spray-painted the walls with anti-war slogans. Following a controversial trial, the three activists were convicted in early May 2013 on the charges of damaging property in violation of 18 US Code 1363, damaging federal property in excess of $1000 in violation of 18 US Code 1361, and intending to injure, interfere with, or obstruct the national defense of the United States and willful damage of national security premises in violation of 18 US Code 2155. Megan Rice was sentenced to 35 months, or just under three years. The other two protesters, Greg Boertje-Obed and Michael Walli, both were sentenced to 62 months, or a little more than five years.

The National Nuclear Security Administration has acknowledged the seriousness of the 2012 Plowshares action, which involved the protesters walking into a high-security zone of the plant, calling the security breach "unprecedented." Independent security contractor, WSI, has since had a weeklong "security stand-down," a halt to weapons production, and mandatory refresher training for all security staff.

Non-proliferation policy experts are concerned about the relative ease with which these unarmed, unsophisticated protesters could cut through a fence and walk into the center of the facility. This is further evidence that nuclear security—the securing of highly enriched uranium and plutonium—should be a top priority to prevent terrorist groups from acquiring nuclear bomb-making material. These experts have questioned "the use of private contractors to provide security at facilities that manufacture and store the government's most dangerous military material".

On April 4, 2018, seven Plowshares activists calling themselves "Kings Bay Plowshares" were arrested at the Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base. Longtime peace activist Susan Crane was among those arrested. They stated that the action had been planned to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the Assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. The activists were arrested, handed over to local authorities, and taken to the county jail. The Kings Bay spokesman, Scott Bennett, said that no one had been threatened and no military personnel or assets were endangered. The base houses 8 Ohio-class submarines, 6 of which carry ballistic missiles and are described by the Navy as "designed specifically for stealth and the precise delivery of nuclear warheads." The seven Plowshares were found guilty on October 24, 2019. Liz McAlister was sentenced to time served, 3 years of supervised probation and a portion of the $33,000 restitution. The other defendants remain to be sentenced. Sentencing guidelines suggest 8 to 33 months of incarceration and/or conditional probation, although they face potentially more than 20 years.

title: Plowshares movement


text: User talk:195.10.16.71

title: User talk:195.10.16.71


text:
Iowa Biennial

The Iowa Biennial Exhibition and Archive (TIBEA) began in 2004 as an international survey of contemporary miniature printmaking with its initial exhibition held at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, Iowa. Works juried for the exhibition travel for exhibitions within the U.S. as well as internationally, with exhibitions in Cedar Rapids, Iowa and Riga, Latvia, to date.

The Iowa Biennial Exhibition is a non-profit endeavor that serves to support a collection of works accessioned within an open archive, The Iowa Biennial Exhibition Archive, while making the public collection available for academic education, research, museums, artists, and print students. Works within the archive are used to promote a greater awareness of the uniqueness and beauty of the print, print media, and printmaking (both traditional and non-traditional). Submissions for works are accepted on even years beginning in January through April. The Iowa Biennial Exhibition is an all-volunteer, non-profit, cultural and research-oriented event, and no profits are sought from its submissions or participants, while submitted and accepted works will never be sold.

Distinguished jurors invited to participate are established professionals from a diverse selection of art disciplines within Iowa. Notable jurors have included: Virginia A. Myers, Peter Feldstein, and Dr. Rachel M. Williams, all from the University of Iowa’s School of Art & Art History; Julie Leonard from the University of Iowa’s Center for the Book and the School of Art & Art History; Shannon Kennedy from the University of Iowa’s School of Art & Art History and Coe College's Department of Art in Cedar Rapids [also formerly at Kirkwood Community College-Iowa City]; Kayt Conrad of the University of Iowa’s Division of Performing Arts [formerly Art Coordinator and Interim Dean of Arts & Humanities at Kirkwood Community College]; as well as Helen Grunwald, Doug Hall, and Rahat Sodaev, all faculty from the Arts & Humanities Department of Kirkwood Community College in Cedar Rapids.

The 2006 Iowa Biennial exhibition received a 2007 "ICKY" award nomination—along with exhibitions on Andy Warhol and Grant Wood—for Best Visual Arts Programming from the Iowa Cultural Corridor Alliance for its exhibition at the University of Iowa Project Art Gallery.

In late 2007, The Iowa Biennial Exhibition & Archive merged its efforts with The Texas Biennial Exhibition & Archive to form The Americas Biennial Exhibition & Archive of Contemporary Prints, a non-profit, all-volunteer, fine arts endeavor. All works formerly entered into either The Iowa Biennial Exhibition & Archive or the Texas Biennial Exhibition & Archive have been accessioned into The Americas Biennial Exhibition & Archive [TABEA] within their respective collections.

title: Iowa Biennial


text:
Meghalaya Nationalist Congress Party

Meghalaya Nationalist Congress Party a political party that existed in Meghalaya, India in December 2003. It was formed by Cyprian Sangma on December 15, when six out of 14 Nationalist Congress Party legislators broke away. Four of the six were immediately given cabinet berths in the D.D. Lapang government. On December 21 MNCP merged with the Indian National Congress.

MNCP was also the name of another NCP splinter group in the state, formed in 2001.

title: Meghalaya Nationalist Congress Party


text:
Category:IRT 42nd Street Shuttle stations

Stations on the IRT 42nd Street Shuttle of the New York City Subway.


text: User talk:198.92.101.201

title: User talk:198.92.101.201


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spvsict

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete -- AllyUnion (talk) 07:55, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Spvsict
"New fastest growing popular online video"... without any relevant google hits. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 16:41, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * No relevant clusty hits either. Mistitled, vanity tone. Delete and leave creator gentle message. Mgm|(talk) 22:10, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No evidence given that it exists, let alone meets our importance guidelines.  Also not easily verifiable, and the near-certainty that it's vanity makes it not worth the effort to try any harder. —Korath (Talk) 01:19, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spvsict


text:
Richard Street

Richard Allen Street (October 5, 1942 – February 27, 2013) was an American soul and R&B singer, most notable as a member of Motown vocal group The Temptations from 1971 to 1993. Prior to joining the Temptations, he had been a member of Otis and The Distants in the 50s, a vocal group that was led by Otis Williams.

Early life
Born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, Street was the first member of the Temptations to actually be a native of the city which served as Motown's namesake and hometown; all of the previous members were born and at least partially raised in the southern United States.

Otis Williams and the Distants
Street was the lead singer of an early Temptations predecessor, Otis Williams & the Distants, and takes the spotlight on their local hit "Come On". The Distants also included future Temptations Otis Williams, Melvin Franklin (who referred to Street as his cousin), and Elbridge "Al" Bryant, who left The Distants and their record deal with Johnnie Mae Matthews' Northern Records to form The Elgins (later The Temptations) with Eddie Kendricks and Paul Williams. After their departure, Matthews had Street briefly lead a new Distants group in the early 1960s.

The Monitors
During the mid-1960s, Street performed with a Motown act called The Monitors, who had only one minor hit, 1966's "Greetings (This Is Uncle Sam)", which reached #21 on the Billboard R&B Chart, and #100 on the Billboard Pop Singles Chart, to its name. They also had a smaller hit in 1965 by the name of "Say You", which The Temptations also recorded for their Gettin' Ready album.

The Temptations
Street knew the Temptations and Otis Williams, in particular, having worked for Motown in quality control and through his vocal work with the Distants and the Monitors. By the late-1960s, Street was being called upon to travel with The Temptations and sing Paul Williams' parts from off-stage, while Paul Williams, who suffered from both alcoholism and sickle-cell disease, danced and lip-synched onstage. Street officially replaced Paul Williams in mid-1971, after both he and Eddie Kendricks left the group. A number of the Temptations' best-selling hits feature Street's lead vocals, including "Superstar (Remember How You Got Where You Are)" (1971), "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone" (1972), "Masterpiece" (1973), and was featured solo on "Hey Girl (I Like Your Style)" (1973) as well as the album cuts "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face", "Heavenly" (1973), and "Firefly", from the All Directions (1972), 1990 (1973), and A Song for You albums (1975), respectively. Street and Damon Harris traded leads on "Heavenly". He and old Distants bandmates Otis Williams and Melvin Franklin endured a number of lineup changes over the two decades Street was a Temptation, during which time Dennis Edwards, Ricky Owens, Damon Harris, Glenn Leonard, Louis Price, Ron Tyson, and Ali-Ollie Woodson all served as members of the group at various times. According to Street's own website, he left the group after the "family feeling" of the Temptations deteriorated. He fell out with Otis Williams in 1993 after missing a show because Street entered the hospital to have seventeen kidney stones removed. When the information wasn't relayed to Otis Williams, he confronted Street, demanding to know why he missed his last performance. Street felt that Williams seemed to show a lack of concern, and decided to move on. He was replaced by Theo Peoples.

When asked what the music of the Temptations meant to Street, he stated: "The Temptations songs were message songs of the times, about what was going on with the world. You had to represent your race. People all over the world loved what we did. Back then, we did not have a whole lot of Black people to look up to. We did not know we would make such a stir.” In 1998, NBC aired The Temptations, a four-hour television miniseries based upon an autobiographical book by Otis Williams. Street was portrayed by actor J. August Richards.

Solo work
Street continued to tour and perform as a solo artist. At times, he performed as a duo with former Temptations bandmate Damon Harris, who had joined the group at about the same time he did. Street was also a regular guest host with Tim Marshall and Larry Cotton on R&B Showcase Radio Show airing on WBZC FM in South Jersey. He was honored with a New Jersey State Senate Proclamation on May 11, 2002, for his charitable works at a Mount Laurel, NJ benefit for Cancer. The event was presented by R&B Showcase Magazine. Entertainers including Ms. Marilyn Marshall and MTV's "Making The Band" finalists LMNT paid tribute to Richard Street.

Personal life
Street was formerly married to The Velvelettes' lead singer Carolyn "Cal" Gill from 1969 to 1983. A year after their marriage, Street successfully persuaded Gill into breaking up the Velvelettes so she could care for their home. Street had four children. He had one son, Richard Street Jr., from his marriage to Gill and had three children from additional relationships: Brandi Chapman, Januari Street, and Brandon Street. Richard Street was married to Cynthia Ramirez Street when he died. They were married for 7 years. At the time of his death, Street was completing his autobiography, Ball of Confusion (referring to the Temptations song "Ball of Confusion (That's What the World is Today)", which Street did not appear on as he joined The Temptations in 1971, the year after it was released). Completed by his co-author, Gary Flanigan, Ball of Confusion: My Life as a Temptin' Temptation was published in 2014. It is the second autobiographical account of The Temptations, the first being Otis Williams' Temptations book from 1988.

Death
Richard Street died on February 27, 2013, at the St. Rose Dominican Hospital in Las Vegas, Nevada of a pulmonary embolism. His death occurred nine days after fellow former Temptation Damon Harris's death. His widow, Cynthia Street, has said that “He was really fighting for his life.” A public viewing was held in the evening March 15 at the church at Forest Lawn in Cypress California. Funeral services were held the next day at Forest Lawn. He is buried at Forest Lawn Memorial Park Cemetery, Cypress, Orange County, California.

title: Richard Street


text:
User:Helperzoom

I am an academic librarian with a background in medieval studies and current research interests in 1930s historiography, in particular the white-collar projects of the WPA.

To Do

 * User:helperzoom/usaas
 * User:helperzoom/Mill Woods

title: User:Helperzoom


text:
Credit note

A credit note or credit memo is a commercial document issued by a seller to a buyer. Credit notes act as a source document for the sales return journal. In other words, the credit note is evidence of the reduction in sales. A credit memo, a contraction of the term "credit memorandum", is evidence of a reduction in the amount a buyer owes a seller under an earlier invoice.

It can also be a document from a bank to a depositor to indicate the depositor's balance is being in the event other than a deposit, such as the collection by the bank of the depositor's note receivable.

Features
A credit note lists the products, quantities, and agreed prices for products or services the seller provided the buyer but the buyer returned or did not receive. It may be issued in the case of damaged goods, errors or allowances. In respect of the previously issued invoice, a Credit Memo will reduce or eliminate the amount the buyer has to pay. Note: A Credit Memo is not to be substituted as a formal document. The Credit Memo rarely contains PO #, Date, Billing Address, Shipping Address, Terms of Payment, List of products with quantities and prices. Usually, it references the original invoice and sometimes states the reason for the issue.

Uses

 * To allow the buyer to purchase an item or service from that seller on a future date, i.e. a gift card or store card credit. Credit notes may be issued by a seller as a goodwill gesture to a buyer who wishes to return previously purchased merchandise (instead of cash repayment) in circumstances where the original sales agreement did not include an explicit refund policy for returned items. In such circumstances, a credit note of value equal to the price of the returned item is usually issued, allowing the buyer to exchange their purchase for other items available with the sale.

title: Credit note


text:
User talk:MPLX/2005-1

Reverted redirect
Reverted your redirect of Sildenafil, which is not a stub by any conceivable stretch of the imagination. I don't know what your ultimate agenda is, but you're going about it in entirely the wrong way, making such MAJOR changes unilaterally. --Calton 06:21, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi!
I was responding to the comments on one of the Talk pages concerning duplication of text. I am building one major article at Impotence. Hold on a moment until I am finished then take a look and if you don't like it you can add your bit to change the landscape. I don't engage in revert wars so you won't find me to be a problem. I like to write and edit and I saw a huge mess that no one had to date linked together. But if you don't like it you have my okay to do your own thing if you think that your way is better. On the other hand once you take a look at what I am doing once I have finished it (almost done), then you might want to help create one great article instead of leaving 4 to 5 stubs floating around. Let me know what you think, but in any event, its fine with me. MPLX/MH 06:30, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Reverted redirect
You're not duplicating text, you're cannibalizing one decent article and some stubs to pad out Impotence, with the effect of burying the information of Sildenafil at the bottom of Impotence. Yes, writing is harder than cutting-and-pasting, but you get better quality articles. And redirecting existing articles BEFORE you've "finished" is also a pretty bad idea. --Calton 06:34, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi!

 * Well that is your opinion and you are free to express it and you have. However, I believe that the 4 stub articles were either commercial propaganda, badly written in some instances or just stub entries which all belonged in one decent article about Impotence. Again, if you feel motivated to try to improve this article feel free to do so. I was adding what I believed to be a great improvement on a disjointed mess of one article and 4 stubs. However, I know that you have already engaged in reverting, but you won't find me joining in. I am working on other matters and I believe that I have made a decent contribution here. I look forward to reading your own improvements. MPLX/MH 06:48, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi!

 * I see that you have been very busy reverting everything with notes about show the necessity = obviously you have not been reading the Talk pages, have you, because you are accusing me of not doing something that I have already done! See: Talk:Vardenafil MPLX/MH 06:53, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Reverted redirect
Well that is your opinion and you are free to express it and you have.
 * And I am also free to fix bad editing decisions.

However, I believe that the 4 stub articles...
 * I repeat, Sildenafil is not a stub by any conceivable stretch of the imagination. If a person wanted to look up impotence, the person would look up Impotence, not Sildenafil; if I look up Sildenafil, it's because I want to know about Sildenafil.

were either commercial propaganda, badly written in some instances
 * Which is what editing and rewriting is for, if true.

or just stub entries which all belonged in one decent article about Impotence. Again, if you feel motivated to try to improve this article feel free to do so.
 * You first. Start by actually rewriting the Impotence article, actually expanding it with new content. If you can't improve an article except by cannibalizing cut-and-paste from other perfectly decent articles/stubs and brushing over the traces, then maybe you ought to try your hand at some other article.

I look forward to reading your own improvements.
 * I already have by reverting. But as for Impotence, feh. Not my interest, not my business, and utterly irrelevent to the reversions I made. Do what you want with Impotence, but don't screw up other articles to do so. Is that clear enough, or do I have to explain again? --Calton 07:10, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi!

 * Before accusing someone it is a good idea to read the Talk pages - because you might discover that you have jumped the gun yourself. No hard feelings, but see Talk:Vardenafil MPLX/MH 06:56, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Reverted redirect

 * I read the Talk pages and articles before I reverted, so I jumped no gun, your smarmy insinuations to the contrary. No hard feelings, but your rhetorical fallacies and passive-aggressive style are really annoying. --Calton 07:10, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi!

 * Look Carlton lay off the personal attacks! I see that others have complained to you before about this behavior. It is not Wikipedian. I was civil and friendly to you and you were the opposite to me. I note that you work in Japan. I find that interesting since I have several close Japanese connections, one of which reached into the royal family. Lay off the attitude and mean spirited stuff, life is too short and in Japan you must surely be getting the idea that a polite society is appreciated by everyone. Instead of accusing someone of ill intentions it is better to step back and see the whole picture. I wish you well, but please, no more unfriendly and mean spirited personal attacks. Thank you. MPLX/MH 07:25, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Reverted redirect
Pointing out where you were wrong is a personal attack? Answering your responses in detail is a personal attack? Responding to your annoying passive-aggressive insinuations (Well that is your opinion and you are free to express it, Before accusing someone it is a good idea to read the Talk pages - because you might discover that you have jumped the gun yourself) is a personal attack?

I have made no accusations of ill intention -- none -- and I resent your saying so. I am accusing you of bad editing and laziness, at the cost of one decent article and three decent stubs. Go ahead, whack away at Impotence, but enough with the cannibalization of other articles/stubs. And you'll discuss major changes -- like obliterating 4 articles -- if you're serious about actually making improvements.

I was civil and friendly to you... No, you were (and still are) dismissive, passive-aggressive, and unresponsive to the actual issues raised -- and, it looks like I could add, prone to peculiar non-sequitors, what with your ''I note that you work in Japan. I find that interesting since I have several close Japanese connections, one of which reached into the royal family.'' Name-dropping your six-degrees-of-separation with the Japanese Imperial Household means what, exactly?

Ditch the smarm, stop the mind-reading -- and learn to spell my name correctly -- and then I'll believe you about being civil and friendly. --Calton 08:53, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:MPLX/2005-1