text:
Talk:D12

Eminem membership
Eminem was a member until 2018, not 2006 as currently stated. He appeared on the song "Fame" from the "Return of the Dozen vol. 2", and he was not credited as a feature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:485E:3200:A08A:BA25:35CB:D372 (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Fuzz Scoota's status as a member
There's no direct proof that Fuzz Scoota left the group, but there also isn't any real evidence that he was actually legally signed to the group.

Lots of signs that he isn't really a member of the group: 1. Made long rants on Twitter dissing Eminem as "Queen Mathers" 2. Wasn't featured on Bane 3. Hasn't done any tracks with D12 (or any solo tracks at all) since their 2011 mixtape 4. Never went on tour or concert with D12 once — Preceding unsigned comment added by Informationmonopoly (talk • contribs) 08:27, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

And he wasn't on one track of the Devil's Night Mixtape either. -informationmonopoly

Request link to Bizzare
Please link Bizzare's name in the Early Career section, "Proof's was Dirty Harry, Bizarre's was Peter S. Bizarre,". Link to Bizzare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarre_(rapper) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.3.249.108 (talk) 07:02, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

BETTER PHOTO!
Surely there must be a better photo of D12 out there on the net!?! Can you please, please, PLEASE!!! Get a BETTER PHOTO Of D12 PLEASE!!! (120.149.115.145 (talk) 06:45, 22 November 2012 (UTC))

Untitled
This page needs cleaning up. It contains quite a few grammatical mistakes. I have fixed a few, but it needs more work.

Why does it say Bizarre is dead? Bizarre is not dead please change it because its wrong. Lscolls1212 (talk) 20:14, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Name of New Album
I think I found out the name of new album. It's called "Return of the Dozen," according to Allmusic.com -Xaremathras (talk) 22:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * Oppose. I added a third choice now to the dis-ambiguation page. Georgia guy 16:19, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Request withdrawn. Quite a valid disambiguation page now, although does anyone have a problem with removing the the album listed there, since it could easily be found in the groups article, if it's somehow mistyped... – Quoth 08:22, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Band
This is a rap group, not a band. --147.124.49.89 15:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Alliases
Does anyone know the alternatrive names of all the former members of D12. I feel that these should be included as there are technically always 12 members.(The Next Biggish Thing 15:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC))

Death of Proof
Since the investigation is still underway (4/25/06), is it unwise to say at this point that Proof was murdered? If he was shot out of self-defense, the term "murder" is probably incorrect. I'm not trying to dog on Proof by bringing this up (I'm a fan of D12 as well), but as the facts unfold, it's looking more like Proof fired the first shot and was fired upon only after he had fatally wounded another man. --buck 20:42, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I've altered the phrasing regarding Proof's death to say that he was "shot to death" rather than "murdered", as it appears that he was fired upon out of self-defense. --buck 18:06, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

^^^It wasn't SELF-defence, he was defending his dead cousin, so it is murder.

Also should there be a link for Proof in the D12 template box at the bottom? I'm guessing his name was removed after he was killed, so seeing as he was an integral part of the group for some years a link to his page should be added into it.--124.180.180.196 06:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

First off, Proof is dead! Of course he's called "Big Proof", because of his tragic death in 2006. Seriously, his name needs to go on the Past Members section, NOT the Members section on the D12 page on this website. If anybody gets my message, then please change it. Proof left the group for a reason: it's all because of his death.--Skylar3214 08:34, 8 June 2012

Hmm
D-12 is pretty underrated... I mean sure, Kon Artis pretty much sucks, Kuniva sometimes sucks and it's hard to take Bizarre seriously as a Rapper. But of course Em, Swift and Proof are ill. Swift especially doesn't get the credit he deserves, I think he's not only the second best Rapper in D-12 but I think he's the 2nd best Rapper from Detroit, behind Eminem. Why do you think Swift usually spits right after Em on tracks and even sometimes goes before him? Swift been rippin shit up since "No One's Iller" on The Slim Shady EP--Tainted Drifter 06:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

PROOF IS GOD

 * You trippin. I love Swifty, he is my favorite rapper, but to say Kon Artis sucks? Kon Artis is ill as fuck. Kronos o (talk) 05:21, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

New member?
Who if anyone will replace Proof? And will D12 still be great without Proof, the groups heart and soul? personally i think obie trice would make a great member.--DaGrob 18:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

proof does not need replacing, cos no-one can replace him. D12 can still make music. also obie trice is crap. user:hip-hop man 17:11, 14 december 2006

I agree with Da Grob. Obie Trice would be perfect for the group, and although no-one can replace Proof, Obie Trice is far from crap.

Maybe I could give it a shot. I write rap songs on my own, and I should be able to write a couple verses for D12. I'll be able to get myself to release my own debut album called "Black Label" soon, under the name of "Vladimir", my new stage name I'm gonna use. I've been given an alter ego, under the name of "Big Dave", by one of my friends in high school. I'll be able to join D12 soon, after my debut release of "Black Label". And Obie Trice only performs solo instead. But if you guys want Obie Trice to be with D12, why not let him give it a go.--Skylar3214 9:21, 10 June 2012

wtf why the hell would they replace proof they didnt replace bugz or anyone else that left the group?

Actually, they replaced him with Swifty McVay HeckXX 23:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Swifty's been with D12 for years!--Skylar3214 9:13, 10 June 2012

No ones replacing Proof. Without Proof there would be no D12. They know that and they respect him. Plus they already made two albums. TahoeLT 05:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, D12 Sucked with or without Proof, He sucked, you only say he was good because he is dead. Em cant even rap either. Royce had more talent than all of them. Proof sounded like a grinding old machine.

 * People actually troll Wikipedia? Don't you have anything better to do?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mertens21 (talk • contribs) 05:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

disambiguiation.
The term d12 does not solely refer to this band and should be a disanbisuiation page that allows readers to choose which content they wish to read about. shadzar|Talk|contribs 03:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Kuniva
Um, what is the point of having a Kuniva link, when it just redirects to D12? I think there should be an article about Kuniva. HeckXX 23:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Former member Kanival?
Kanival; left the group to rap under The Black Wall Street Records label. Myspace.com/kanival

^^ This guy is as old as me... 17...

Selfish self promotion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sabertooth (talk • contribs) 15:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

I've searched everywhere I could look and no one named Kanival has ever been associated with D12 or Black Wall Street.

Delete name. It's ruining the D12 page.

It's actually pronounced "Kuniva". He's been with D12 for years, so there is no need for Kuniva to quit, if so. --Skylar3214 9:26, 10 June 2012

Singles Descriptions
I think that there should be an edit about "40 0z." and "U R The One". The page won't allow me to.

D12 was ruining the D12 page

D12's third LP
Under Swift's incarceration, it reads "the third D12 album, with a tentative release date of sometime between March and May of 2008. This was announced by Bizarre on the popular Rap Basement Message Board, in which D12 members occasionally post."

First off, Bizarre made that statement in an interview with MLIVE.com. Secondly, could we delete the part that states that the album will release between March and May of 2007? It is June 14th and no D12 album has released yet.
 * Are you blind, or just stupid? The current year is 2007.

Kuniva posted on D12 World's forum again stating that he doubts that the album will release in 2007. Since 50 Cent is dropping in September and Eminem is focused on promoting Ca$his and Stat Quo this year. Look forward to the D12 album in early '08 since Kuniva said that they've been told that they will release before this time next year.

http://www.d12world.com/index.php?s=news#newsitem1182448162,76448 states that "D12 is' currently "on hold," he says. Their forthcoming third album is 70 percent done, by his estimation, but so far boasts no input or content from Eminem." Once Stat Quo drops (in August) and Ca$his drops around October then Eminem will work on finishing off his album. Once Eminem's album drops, he will contribute his part to D12's third LP; not D12's third album - they had an Underground EP.

Impala63 01:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Anyone got an updated date on the albums release? I mean it was originally supposed to be released in 2007 and, as someone said above, it was 70 percent done in 2007 yet it's 2009 and I haven't seen anything about it's release anywhere for a while. With Eminem's new album coming out soon I assume D12 will release there's at some point this year as well. Can someone find some more information about this? Mertens21 (talk) 05:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

 * There's not much about the third LP. 2011 is halfway over and the album is not much yet in works. I believe "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" was unused on Recovery by Eminem because it may be used on a third LP.  Tom  USA   01:23, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

The new album will NOT be called Natural Born Killers...
Kuniva himself has stated that the album will not be given that title...Source: http://board.rapbasement.com/showpost.php?p=6134210&postcount=44

Yes, that really is him...

--Aunwit 02:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

bottom table...
how do you edit that table at the bottom page? Eye-Kyu · Fuzz Scoota · Killa Hawk · Bugz · Proof · Flexy Buzz <<< needs to be removed... --Aunwit 00:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

 * That's a template at the bottom. You'd need to edit Template:D12. But I'm sure Killa Hawk and Flexy Buzz were not D12 members.  TomUSA   My talk page   19:24, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Myspace announcements section
I haven't bothered to confirm this fact, but I wonder, is it really nessisary to quote the message? -Verdatum (talk) 17:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally think it's not needed...(Aunwit (talk) 23:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC))

1993
Since When did they start in 1993? Mcanmoocanu —Preceding comment was added at 02:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Order of group members
I switched the order of the group members to alphabetical: it doesn't make sense to have Eminem at the top arbitrarily when he's barely associated with the group these days and isn't even on the new mixtape. Alphabetical seems to make more sense. 86.157.89.33 (talk) 19:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I think it would make sense to have Eminem at the top considering him and Proof were the founding members of D12 and Proof is no longer a member due to his death, which leaves Eminem as the remaining founding member of the group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mertens21 (talk • contribs) 05:23, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I thought Bizzare was also a founding member? Kronos o (talk) 05:25, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Fuzz Scoota RIP
He will be missed. He needs his own page, someone needs to put one up. sum one please put up a page for him because he is dearly missed 70.185.227.29 (talk) 06:38, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Fuzz isn't dead. He rejoined D12 prior to the release of Return of the Dozen Vol. 2. You're thinking of Bugz and Proof, they're the only D12 members that died.  TomUSA   My talk page   19:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

"Feuds" section
I seem to notice an edit war brewing over the Feuds section, particularly over the addition of the "Canibus/DZK" subsection. No attempt has been made by either side to discuss the issue. Perhaps the interested parties can quit the revert battle (before someone gets blocked a-la WP:3RR and work out the issue here.

Personally I think the "feuds," stupid as they are, are worthy of inclusion in a music group's history. Thus it would stand to reason that the "Canibus/DZK" incident should be included as well, if it's verifiable and with proper sources. However, the section as it has been presented by anonymous IP needs a bit of work as far as style and tone, to be more encyclopedic. This, IMO, is a reason to revise it, but not just revert it off the page.

Please add your thoughts here, so y'all can work this out.

–ArmadniGeneral (talk • contribs) 05:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks General. I have no intention of starting or continuing an edit war, and I am not exactly of the same opinion as you: I don't think they are stupid (I have no opinion on that matter at all--though I wish that adults would behave as adults), but I do believe that they are not worthy of inclusion at all. This addition is sourced to one single gossip site, and if I understand it correctly, it says "one guy said something bad about another guy, and then some other guy said that wasn't right." Wikipedia is not a tabloid, and should not report on every individual trivial little thing: all those "feuds" should go. Well, I'm never going to win this battle and I am perfectly content to let it be--and if that means that this article is a collection of trite, poorly-written gossip that only proves how childish some artists are, that's fine with me. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 16:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I will certainly agree that the whole concept is childish on the artists' part. Reading the phrase "retaliatory song" makes me roll my eyes. Nonetheless the disputes seem to be (with the exception of the most recent one) decently-cited, and I would say that they are significant in the artists' history as many songs/productions have been a result of these disputes. –ArmadniGeneral (talk • contribs) 05:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * But not all songs are notable, and a song originating in a feud isn't necessarily extra notable. It's nothing but artist- or record company-promoted filler, and that we would participate is kind of sad. Drmies (talk) 22:47, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

This article needs a mop!
I'm wondering if anyone could clean up some parts of this article? Specifically, the "Feuds" section. Here is an example of what I mean:

In the early 2000s, Eminem was notified while on the Anger Management Tour that former House Of Pain member, Everlast, had mocked him on a song. Everlast claimed that while passing by Mathers in a hotel lobby, Mathers gave him a "weird look." Taking offense to this, Eminem and D12 quickly began work on a retaliatory song, "Quitter." It was reported that long-time friends of Eminem, group Limp Bizkit, were meant to be featured on the song, but Fred Durst canceled at the last moment. The record continued its release without featuring Limp Bizkit, causing the Everlast-Mathers dispute to continue. In a TRL interview, Limp Bizkit member, DJ Lethal, made a statement that if Mathers and Ford were to fight in real life, Ford would win.

My initial thought was, "Who in the hell is Ford? Where did he come from?" I know now that Whitey Ford is Everlast, but that could be clarified in the article. There are several more in the "Feuds" section alone. I would change them myself, however, I know how territorial people can be about articles, and I thought I would give someone that has been here a while a chance to do it. J DIGGITY  (U ¢ ME)  01:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Redirects
As Bugz and Kuniva appear to be non-notable rappers, I redirected those two to this article. I'm not sure whether Denaun Porter should be redirected as he seems to have gained notability as a producer. Karppinen (talk) 17:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Bugz could have a page, not so sure about Kuniva. Kon Artis definately should have an article on Wikipedia. He has done works outside of D12 that have made him more notable. But Bugz I believe should have a page, but I won't create one unless I'm granted permission. As far as I'm concerned, the only members who should have their own articles are obviously Eminem, Proof, Bizarre, and Kon Artis.  TomUSA   My talk page   19:23, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Bugz page.
Someone please put back his page because it's not there anymore I think it has been deleted, someone please make a new one and put it back there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 6'5Guy (talk • contribs) 02:25, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.123.8.102 (talk) 02:14, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I would like to see another Bugz page put up. However, the administrators here find it inappropriate to have such a page. I don't know if this helps, but this page on Hip Hop Wiki is for Bugz Also, visit BugzNation.com which is a fan generated website, including all works by Bugz as well as some images.  Tom  US  A   18:18, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Last Response to benzino
wasn't the sauce, it was like toy soldiers, the sauce was the 1st diss he put out along with nail in the coffin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.99.213.36 (talk) 16:47, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixing page to go to Kuniva's page
A page has been created for Kuniva, but the links should be added to the D12 page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kuniva&redirect=no — Preceding unsigned comment added by ErykaMarie (talk • contribs) 17:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 93.137.51.191, 29 March 2011
Just to add Eye Kyu he was a member of D12.

93.137.51.191 (talk) 19:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Bility (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Go to the section below that I wrote, it features 2 sources, one of which solely based on Eye-Kyu.  Tom  US  A   18:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Wtf...
"Death of Bugz" subsection has a redirect to that same subsection. 67.80.27.38 (talk) 20:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

 * They feel that a page for Bugz is not necessary. Though I feel different about this because there's plenty of sources, there is no current page for Bugz, so it redirects to the subsection in this page. I hope this helps,  TomUSA   My talk page   19:20, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

g
I think I should help write this article because I am very nice and I have a lot to offer. Believe me, you will not regret my edit. When I was a little boy, I always share my toys with my little sister. I always say please and thank you. I always forgive people;7tfg6in', So I believe I will be a good contributor to this article... BITCH!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guyjij (talk • contribs)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. — Bility (talk) 19:06, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I'm confused. Can you say what needs to be changed with the article? The admins at Wikipedia protected this article from unregistered IPs and new Wikipedians fro specific reasons.  TomUSA   My talk page   19:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Former members
Eye-Kyu, DJ Head, Chaos Kid, Three. These are former members of D12. They were taken out of the infobox for some reason, can someone explain why? They are notable, Eye-Kyu having been featured on Eminem's album Infinite in 1996 as well as D12's The Underground EP. DJ Head, Chaos Kid, Three, and Fuzz Scoota were present for their first EP, but left in 1997 - 1998 for unrevealed reasons. All we can say is that they did leave D12, but we don't know why. Fuzz Scoota left because of a fight with Proof, but felt bad after Proof's death and tried to recontact D12, and eventually did thus rejoining the group. I also saw a mugshot of Eye-Kyu somewhere. I'm not saying they should all have pages (DJ Head already has one), but they should be noted in the former members section of the infobox. For some reason, they were taken down.

Read the members section of this biography in the top part: http://www.rapartists.com/artists/d12/biography

Here are some works featuring Eye-Kyu at wn.com: http://wn.com/Eye-Kyu

I hope someone tells me why the former acts are taken down, and something can be done to put them back up. Personally, I myself believe they should recieve credit for earlier works by D12 as well.  Tom  USA   20:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Fedjack, 8 August 2011
Kon Artis/Mr. Porter was only present on two songs due to him being Eminem's current hype man. That ties in with the whole 'Eminem only being on one track' thing in this article.

Fedjack (talk) 03:48, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Could you be more specific on what needs to be changed? Topher385 (talk) 04:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Marking as answered for response of the above question. Jnorton7558 (talk) 06:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request, 29 September 2011
Minor edit: First "Swift" link in Swift's Incarceration section goes to a disambiguation page, not to proper Swift (rapper) page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.228.171.72 (talk) 04:42, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Mistake in Date of Anniversary Release Party
The 10th anniversary party for the Devil's Night album is on October 30th, 2011 ... as is "devil's night." This article has it incorrectly listed as October 31st, which is Halloween. So just change "on October 31st in St. Andrew's Hall" to "on October 30th in St. Andrew's Hall".

 * Has been fixed by GroundZ3R0 002 --Jnorton7558 (talk) 14:22, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Eminem is not part of D12 anymore
I don't really know what more proof does anybody want, Eminem has not been active with any member of D12 and the remaining members do not aknowledge him as part of D12. please add him to former members — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.178.166 (talk) 01:48, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.145.175 (talk) 13:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Please provide a reliable source to confirm his departure. HrZ (talk) 13:42, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Links
I have now crated wiki pages for bugz kuniva and swifty mcvay, i thought it would be good to add links to these

I have added links for these Andrew W 23:58, 26 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew9623 (talk • contribs)

Fuzz Scoota Redirect
Why does Fuzz Scoota redirect to this page? If it is because there is no page for him, would someone consider making him one?

also: here is some information on him http://rap.wikia.com/wiki/Fuzz_Scoota   Andrew W 00:33, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Return of the Dozen Vol. 2
Would someone be willing to create a page for this mixtape by D12? It is a very popular and well done mixtape so i feel as though it deserves a page of its own. Andrew W 00:32, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Since no one else was willing to, I took the initative and am in the process of making the page for it. Anyone with information on the mixtape, feel free to let me know. Andrew W 00:25, 28 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew9623 (talk • contribs)

Swifty McVay
More information about Swifty McVay can be found in the edit histories of [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swifty_McVay&action=history Swifty McVay], [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swifty_McVay%20%28rapper%29&action=history Swifty McVay (rapper)], and, if it does not get deleted, Swifty Mcvay. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  20:43, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Related articles for deletion discussion: Articles for deletion/Swifty Mcvay, opened 15 November 2013.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  20:57, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Any future article should be created at Swifty McVay (the correct stylization), I see no real reason in three redirects for the same person. If anything all three articles should have their histories merged together so we can keep it all together.  STATic  message me!  22:23, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

 * If the significant edits are completely non-overlapping then this could be done. However, if article #1 were edited, say, in 2009 and 2011, and article B edited in 2010, then a history merge would make the history very confusing.  A possible solution for the case of non-histmergable versions would be to MOVE them all to Swifty McVay, Swifty McVay (2), Swifty McVay (3), etc. and make the first a redirect to D12 all but the first fully-protected redirects to the first and do something to keep the bot from "fixing" double-redirects. Please do not do this without a discussion on Talk:D12 *and* pointers to the discussion being placed on the talk pages of all affected pages.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  18:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

 * OT: Wikipedia needs the ability to have some mechanism for alternate-versions of the same page title for cases like this.  Due to the potential for really screwing things up, editing or moving into- or out-of such alternate-versions should be a request able permission, similar to FILEMOVER or EDITPROTECT, or it should piggyback on an existing permission.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  18:21, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

 * The result of the deletion discussion was "redirect" to D12. The old content is in the revision history.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  02:00, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Who is in charge of this page?
Why lock it if nobody is going to update it? pleaae get a hold of yourselves, its shameful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:75:F77:904:2C04:54B7:3CD7:48FD (talk) 22:58, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey, what the hell is going on?
The page is locked and nobody is editing, there are so many mistakes. I will formally log a complain.2003:75:F6F:F531:A9C2:EA5E:B4F3:EA46 (talk) 11:37, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Please Unlock
It's unbelievable that nobody is editing this article, it is sad and annoying. Please unlock so we can complete it!!!Gomezmorincuevas (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

D12... THE Dirty Dozen... or just Dirty Dozen?
D12 is actually an initialism for Dirty Dozen, not The Dirty Dozen...

Plus, update the info about The Devil's Night Mixtape, Eminem's intro, the whole album, etc., or just update the whole article (in other words). 120.62.59.192 (talk) 10:04, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

→ Someone locked the article and nobody is updating t.... Gomezmorincuevas (talk) 14:16, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2016
Under the 'Devil's Night and D12 World (2000–05)' section, a link referring to the D12 Album 'Devil's Night' leads to the article about the Detroit cultural phenomenon that occurs on October 30.

99.226.84.126 (talk) 20:17, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Done! ~ty(talk) 20:22, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Bugz birth year
Says "1996-1999" He was born January 5, 1978 Valkeryia (talk) 01:31, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Active or not?
There are still songs being put out with D12 members as featured artists and identified as D12. Eminem is no longer active, but Kuniva, Bizarre, and Swifty still do tracks together or in different combinations. Should Em just be listed as no longer a member and the status of D12 changed back to active? 24.92.38.147 (talk) 15:09, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Missing eye kyu former member
eye kyu was a former member. Give the man his credit. 100.10.54.117 (talk) 13:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

D12 still exists as an active group
This entire article treats D12 as a group that no longer exists. This idea is derived solely from Eminem's 2018 solo song "Stepping Stone" on which he announced that 'D12 is over.' However, as Bizarre, Kuniva and Swifty had been recording and touring under the name D12 as a trio for several years prior to Eminem's announcement, and have continued to do so since, this announcement is more accurately read as Eminem's official retirement from the group after a decade of mere token involvement. Eminem doesn't have the power to disband the group by decree, all he can do is quit; the others continued on without him. Bizarre left the group in 2012 and later rejoined them on tour. He appears to have left the group again, and Kuniva and Swifty are now touring as D12, although Bizarre was on the new track they did with Fury last year, so maybe he just sat out the tour, it's unclear. What's clear is that D12 is an active group. - Forty.4 (talk) 23:25, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:D12


text: User talk:221.148.98.145

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:221.148.98.145


text:
Knysna Local Municipality

Knysna Municipality (Knysna Munisipaliteit; uMasipala wase Knysna) is a local municipality within the Garden Route District Municipality, in the Western Cape province of South Africa. , the population is 68,659. Its municipal code is WC048.

Geography
The municipality covers an area of 1109 km2 between the Indian Ocean and the Outeniqua Mountains around the town of Knysna. It abuts on the George Municipality to the north and west, and on the Bitou Municipality to the east.

According to the 2011 census the municipality has a population of 68,659 people in 21,893 households. Of this population, 40.9% describe themselves as "Coloured", 36.1% as "Black African", and 21.0% as "White". The first language of 51.2% of the population is Afrikaans, while 28.4% speak Xhosa and 15.4% speak English.

Most of the residents of the municipality live in the town of Knysna, which as of 2011 has a population of 51,078. Knysna is situated on the shores of the Knysna Lagoon; other coastal settlements are Sedgefield (pop. 8,361) and Buffelsbaai (pop. 71). Away from the coast are agricultural settlements at Rheenendal (pop. 3,936) and Karatara (pop. 880).

History
At the end of the apartheid era, the area that is today the Knysna Municipality formed part of the South Cape Regional Services Council (RSC). The towns of Knysna and Sedgefield were governed by municipal councils elected by their white residents. The coloured residents of Hornlee (Knysna) and Smutsville (Sedgefield) were governed by management committees subordinate to the white councils. Rheenendal was also governed by a management committee. Kwanonqaba was governed by a town council established under the Black Local Authorities Act, 1982. The coastal resorts of Buffelsbaai, Belvidere Estate, Brenton-on-Sea and Noetzie were governed by local councils.

After the national elections of 1994 a process of local government transformation began, in which negotiations were held between the existing local authorities, political parties, and local community organisations. As a result of these negotiations, the existing local authorities were dissolved and transitional local councils (TLCs) were created for each town and village. In October 1994 Knysna TLC replaced the Municipality of Knysna and Hornlee Management Committee. In December 1994 Sedgefield TLC replaced the Municipality of Sedgefield, Smutsville Management Committee and Buffelsbaai Local Council. These transitional councils were made up of members nominated by the various parties to the negotiations. In October 1995 the local councils of Belvidere Estate, Brenton-on-Sea and Noetzie, and the Rheenendal Management Committee, were all converted to TLCs without negotiations and with the existing councillors retained in office.

In May 1996 elections were held for all the TLCs. At the time of these elections the South Cape District Council was established in place of the South Cape RSC, and transitional representative councils (TRCs) were elected to represent rural areas outside the TLCs on the District Council. The area that was to become Knysna Municipality included part of the Outeniqua TRC.

At the local elections of December 2000 the TLCs and TRCs were dissolved and the Knysna Municipality was established as a single local authority. At the same election the South Cape District Council was dissolved and replaced by the Eden District Municipality. In 2011 the Hoogekraal Plantation area north of Sedgefield was transferred from George Municipality to Knysna Municipality.

Politics
The municipal council consists of twenty-one members elected by mixed-member proportional representation. Eleven councillors are elected by first-past-the-post voting in eleven wards, while the remaining ten are chosen from party lists so that the total number of party representatives is proportional to the number of votes received. In the election of 1 November 2021 no party obtained a majority of seats on the council. The Democratic Alliance (DA) then formed a minority coalition government with the Knysna Independent Movement (KIM). At the first council meeting on 22 November 2021, the DA's Julie Lopes was elected speaker, followed by the DA's Levael Davis as mayor and Mark Willemse from KIM as deputy mayor with the help of the lone councillor from the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF).

The following table shows the results of the 2021 election.

History
Joy Cole was first elected mayor under the DA in December 2000 but defected in the September 2004 floor-crossing to become an ANC-aligned independent and reconstituted the council under ANC control. Cole formed a broad-based coalition of the ANC and DA after the March 2006 local government elections when neither party had obtained an outright majority. After Cole resigned in December 2006 to pursue another career, Doris Wakeford-Brown of the DA formed a multi-party coalition. This short-lived coalition collapsed in May 2007 when the Knysna Civic Alliance switched allegiances to the ANC, which brought Eleanore Bouw-Spies in as the new mayor. In the September 2007 floor crossing window the two civic party councillors defected to the ANC, giving the party an outright majority of 9 seats out of 16. Bouw-Spies' term as mayor ended when the DA won an absolute majority in the 2011 election and Georlene Wolmarans was elected mayor. In the 2016 election the DA fell short of an absolute majority, but formed a coalition with the ACDP and an independent councillor. Bouw-Spies, who had crossed to the DA in 2014, returned for a second term as mayor.

Bouw-Spies was removed as mayor after an ANC-initiated vote of no confidence in June 2018. The motion was supported by two DA councillors, Mark Willemse and Peter Myers. Willemse was then elected as the new mayor with COPE member Ricky van Aswegen as deputy mayor. The DA has instituted disciplinary action against its two members, but the matter has dragged on into 2019 without a solution as of yet.

Mayors

 * Charles Thobi (2002–2004)
 * Joy Cole (December 2000 – September 2004) (DA)
 * Joy Cole (September 2004 – March 2006) (Independent)
 * Joy Cole (March 2006 – December 2006) (ANC)
 * Doris Wakeford-Brown (December 2006 – May 2007) (DA)
 * Eleanore Bouw-Spies (May 2007 – May 2011) (ANC)
 * Georlene Wolmarans (May 2011 – August 2016) (DA)
 * Eleanore Bouw-Spies (August 2016 – June 2018) (DA)
 * Mark Willemse (June 2018 – present)

title: Knysna Local Municipality


text:
State Railway of Thailand

The State Railway of Thailand (SRT) (การรถไฟแห่งประเทศไทย, abbrev. รฟท., ) is the state-owned rail operator under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Transport in Thailand.

History
The SRT was founded as the Royal State Railways of Siam (RSR) in 1890. King Chulalongkorn ordered the Department of Railways to be set up under the Department of Public Works and Town and Country Planning. Construction of the Bangkok-Ayutthaya railway (71 km), the first part of the Northern Line, was started in 1890 and inaugurated on 26 March 1897. The Thon Buri-Phetchaburi line (150 km), later the Southern Line, was opened on 19 June 1903. The first railway commander of the RSR was Prince Purachatra Jayakara, Prince of Kamphaengphet.

The Northern Line was originally built as, but in September 1919 it was decided to standardize on  and the Northern Line was regauged over the next ten years. On 1 July 1951, RSR changed its name to the present State Railway of Thailand, which has the status of a state enterprise agency.

On 7 April 2020, the Thai cabinet named Nirut Maneephan as the new chief of the SRT, the 29th governor in its history. SRT had 4,044 km of track, all of it meter gauge except the Airport Link. Nearly 91% was single-track railway (3685 km) while 6%, mainly important sections around Bangkok, were double-track railway (251 km) and 3% were triple-track railway (107 km). The network serves 47 provinces and around 35 million passengers annually. The passenger count is expected to double by 2032, when the network grows to 6463 km to serve 61 provinces.

Financial performance
The SRT has suffered a loss every year since it was turned into a state-owned enterprise under the Transport Ministry in 1951. As the worst financially performing state enterprise, it reported a preliminary loss of 7.58 billion baht in 2010. In the fiscal year ending 30 September 2016, the military government budgeted 7,600 million baht for SRT infrastructure investments to be used for track duplication, an extension of Bangkok's elevated railway, and construction of bridges, fences, and track improvements, however, the SRT had managed to disburse only 53 percent of its allotted investment budget of 60 billion baht, compareed with an average disbursement rate of 80 percent by Thailand's other 55 state-owned enterprises (SOEs). Disbursement rate is seen as an indicator of efficient management. SRT's budget from government for FY2020 was 13,574.9 million baht, increased from 9,087 million baht in FY2019.

"If you look at the SRT they are a bit like a patient in [intensive care] and everyone is saying to him 'you are the future' and trying to kick him out of bed when he is still moaning and groaning," said Ruth Banomyong, a logistics and transport expert at Thammasat University.

The SRT annual operating losses are estimated at a minimum of 10 billion baht. In 2018 and 2019, the SRT lost 12 and 17 billion baht respectively. the SRT has debts amounting to nearly 190 billion baht. The SRT consistently operates at a loss despite being endowed with large amounts of property—the SRT is one of Thailand's largest land holders, owning an estimated 39,840 hectares— and receiving large government subsidies. SRT's latest property development scheme is the Chao Phraya Gateway project. It capitalises on SRT's 277 rai, 1.16 kilometre stretch of land on the river in the Khlong Toei District. The SRT hopes the project will help clear its 100 billion baht debt. The project is projected to break even within eight years and deliver profits of 140 billion baht. , SRT's plans are being submitted to the Transport Ministry for approval.

SRT's failings are reflected in passenger numbers, which, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit have dropped from 88 million in 1994 to 44 million in 2014, and 26 million in 2020. The SRT has long been popularly perceived by the public as inefficient and resistant to change. Trains are usually late, and most of its equipment is old and poorly maintained. Although SRT's operational costs amount to two baht per kilometre traveled, SRT fares defray only a fraction of that cost. SRT has not been permitted to hike fares since 1985 which is significantly below market rate.

Under the auspices of the Transport Ministry, the SRT has submitted a rehabilitation plan that will be presented to the State Enterprise Policy Commission on 30 July 2018. The commission, chaired by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha is expected to approve the plan. The plan calls for SRT to become the largest railway state enterprise in ASEAN. By 2027, anticipating income growth from asset management and cost management, SRT foresees profits of over 20 billion baht.

Hopewell litigation
Hopewell Holdings of Hong Kong was the lead contractor for SRT's ill-fated Bangkok Elevated Road and Train System. The project commenced in 1990 and was terminated by the Thai government in 1998, only 13% complete. Hopewell and the SRT each blamed the other for the failure of the 80 billion baht project. Both parties sued, and the case has been in litigation since its cancellation. On 23 April 2019, Thailand's Supreme Administrative Court upheld an arbitration committee's ruling in favour of Hopewell. The court ordered SRT to pay Hopewell compensation of 11.88 billion baht, plus 7.5% interest per year. The interest, totaling 13 billion baht, brings SRT's total liability to nearly 25 billion baht, payable within 180 days.

Lack of freight revenue
Rail freight, which is cheaper—only roughly half the cost of road transport —safer, and more environmentally-friendly than road transport, accounted for only 1.4 percent of freight tonnage carried in 2015. SRT aims to boost its share of cargo transport to six percent with its rail duplication by 2022. Expansion of SRT's freight service, which could earn more money than the heavily subsidized passenger service, has been neglected for decades in favour of Thailand's roads.

Workforce
The SRT's poor financial performance and resistance to reform, coupled with the Asian financial crisis of 1997, resulted in stringent restraints being placed on SRT staffing. In July 1998, the Thai cabinet issued an order that the SRT could only hire five new employees for every 100 retirees. , the order remains in effect. SRT officials estimated in 2017 that the enterprise needed to boost staff by 20 percent to 12,000. In 2018 SRT claims that it needs 18,015 employees to operate efficiently, but only has 10,035 on staff. The train maintenance workforce has dwindled to 500 from 3,000 over the past 30 years.

To make up the shortfall, the SRT hires around 4,000 "yearly staffs", usually on daily wages of 300 baht. It has also caused the SRT to pay massive amounts of overtime pay to current employees. For example, one station master in Pattani was paid 61,210 baht in monthly salary, but also an additional 102,271 baht in overtime pay. , the staff employment quota was 4,056 but SRT hired 3,721 staffs.

, SRT employed 10,292 employees and 3,928 yearly staffs, totaling 14,220 while the SRT Board approved the addition of 1,330 new workers to bring the workforce to 15,550, still fewer than needed to address staff shortages. , SRT employed 9,204 employees and 3,721 yearly staffs totaling 12,925 while employment quotas respectively was 18,015 and 4,056 totaling 22,071.

Management issues
To address a long list of complaints accusing SRT of a lack of transparency in bids for projects and procurement deals, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha fired the governor and board of the State Railway of Thailand in February 2017, using his special powers under Section 44 of the interim constitution.

Ticketing

Since 1 February 2017, Tickets can be purchased online, in person, as well was on the phone by dialling 1690.

Since 1st February 2024, all long distance special express and express train tickets open up 90 days in advance. For most other trains, you can only buy up to 30 days in advance. For local ordinary and commuter trains, they only can be bought on the day itself at the station.

Since May 2024, a waiting list function has been added, allowing registered users to wait for available tickets if they have been sold out.

Network
The SRT operates all of Thailand's national rail lines. As of 2023, Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal is the main terminus of all long-distance services from Bangkok on the Northern, Northeastern and Southern lines, while Bangkok (Hua Lamphong) railway station is the terminus of all Eastern line services and commuter services from Bangkok on the Northern, Northeastern and Southern lines. Phahonyothin and Ladkrabang Inland Container Depot (ICD) are the main freight terminals.

Northern Line

The Northern Line runs alongside the Northeastern Line until the Ban Phachi Junction. There, it splits from the Northeastern Line and proceeds through Lopburi, Nakhon Sawan, Phichit, Phitsanulok, Denchai, Lampang, Lamphun, before finally reaching Chiang Mai, 751 km from Bangkok. There is also a branch off the mainline from Ban Dara Junction to Sawankhalok in Sukhothai Province.

 * Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal - Main station and freight terminal with main diesel locomotive depot and refueling facility.
 * Ayutthaya Station - Ayutthaya main station. High passenger revenue, second only to Bangkok Station. It is possible to change here to the Northeastern Line.
 * Ban Phachi Junction - A major junction, where the Northern and Northeastern lines separate.
 * Lopburi Station - The end of northern Bangkok suburban service; a military town with much history.
 * Nakhon Sawan Station - Nakhon Sawan Main Station, Nong Pling Station until 1956.
 * Phichit Station - Phichit Main Station
 * Phitsanulok Station - Phitsanulok Main station, town with the famous Phra Phuttha Chinnarat
 * Ban Dara Junction - Junction for Sawankhalok Line
 * Sawankhalok Station - Terminus of Sawankhalok Branch. Station for Sukhothai Province and travel to Sukhothai and Si Satchanalai Historical Parks.
 * Uttaradit Station - Main station, Uttaradit Province.
 * Sila At Station - Depot on the Northern Line. Refueling station and up trains will be cut at this station
 * Den Chai Station - The dropping point for Phrae with a proposal for a junction for Den Chai – Chiang Rai route
 * Nakhon Lampang Station - Depot on the Northern Line. Train will be cut further if going north to Chiang Mai.
 * Khun Tan Station - Station in the mountains, base point and entrance for Doi Khuntan National Park.
 * Lamphun Station - Main station for Lamphun Province
 * Chiang Mai Station - Northern terminus.

Northeastern Line
The Northeastern Line begins on the same route as the Northern Line, splitting at Ban Phachi Junction towards Nakhon Ratchasima. Then at Thanon Chira Junction, the line splits with one route passing Khon Kaen and Udon Thani before terminating at Nong Khai 624 km from Bangkok. The other route passes through Buriram, Surin, Sisaket to reach Ubon Ratchathani, 575 km from Bangkok.

There is also another branch route originating from Kaeng Khoi Junction in Saraburi Province passing through Chai Badan District in Lopburi Province and Chatturat District in Chaiyaphum Province, before joining the mainline heading towards Nong Khai at Bua Yai Junction in Nakhon Ratchasima Province.

 * Saraburi Station - Main Saraburi station, named Pak Priaw station until 1934.
 * Kaeng Khoi Junction - The Bua Yai Line and Khlong Sip Kao line diverge from the mainline here. Main Depot with refuelling facility. The point for dividing freight trains into two trains to pass difficult section of Dong Phraya Yen (Kaeng Khoi - Pak Chong) or combining divided freight trains into one train
 * Pak Chong Station - The gateway to Nakhon Ratchasima and the point for dividing freight trains into two to pass difficult section of Dong Phraya Yen (Kaeng Khoi - Pak Chong) or combining divided freight trains into one train
 * Nakhon Ratchasima Station - Main depot of the Northeastern Line with refuelling facility and a branch line to 2nd Army Support Command. Main Nakhon Ratchasima station.
 * Thanon Chira Junction - Junction for Nong Khai line close to Fort Suranaree (2nd Army Region HQ)
 * Buriram Station - Buriram provincial station with a branch line to a quarry at Khao Kradong
 * Surin Station - Main Surin station
 * Sisaket Station - Main Sisaket station.
 * Ubon Ratchathani Station in town of Warin Chamrap - Terminus of South Isaan Line (also known as Ubon Line) with depot and refuelling facility. Named Varindr station until 1942–1943. Main Ubon Ratchathani Station.
 * Lam Narai Station- Station on the Lam Narai/Bua Yai Branch, for Chai Badan Municipality.
 * Chatturat Station- Station on the Lam Narai/Bua Yai Branch, alight for Chaiyaphum.
 * Bua Yai Junction - junction with refuelling facility
 * Khon Kaen Station - Khon Kaen main station
 * Udon Thani Station - Udon Thani main station with refuelling facility.
 * Nong Khai Station in town of Nong Khai - Terminus of North Isaan Line (also known as Nong Khai Line), provides a connection to Thanaleng Station in Vientiane Prefecture, Laos. Main Nong Khai station.

Southern Line

The Southern Line begins in Bangkok and heads west towards Nakhon Pathom before splitting into three different routes. One route heads west to Kanchanaburi Province (210 km) while another heads north towards Suphan Buri (157 km). The Southern Line itself continues southbound through Ratchaburi, Phetchaburi, Hua Hin, Prachuap Khiri Khan Province, Chumphon, to Surat Thani 678 km distant. From Surat Thani, there is a westerly branch towards Khiri Rat Nikhom while the main line continues south to Thung Song Junction in Nakhon Si Thammarat Province where another branch reaches Kantang in Trang Province. Not far away, another branch separates off the mainline at Khao Chum Thong Junction. The main line from Nakhon Sri Thammarat continues through Phatthalung before reaching Hat Yai Junction in Songkhla Province. From here, a line branches to connect with the Malaysian railway at Padang Besar and the mainline continues to Su-ngai Kolok passing through Yala Province.

 * Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal - Main station and freight terminal with main diesel locomotive depot and refueling facility.
 * Bang Bamru Station- Suburban Station, all trains must stop here. First station after crossing the Rama 6 Bridge from Bang Sue.
 * Taling Chan Junction- Junction for Southern Main Line(Bang Sue-Taling Chan Link) and Thonburi Branch.
 * Thon Buri Station - Former terminus of Southern Line, however some southern trains remain to start the journey here.
 * Salaya Station- Suburban Station, for Phutthamonthon District and Mahidol University (Salaya Campus)
 * Nakhon Pathom Station - Main southern suburban station. Main Nakhon Pathom station.
 * Nong Pladuk Junction - Junction for Namtok Branch Line and Suphan Buri Branch Line.
 * Ban Pong Station - Interchange to Kanchanaburi for those who did not travel along Nam Tok branch line
 * Ratchaburi Station - Terminal for southern suburban service, also Ratchaburi main station.
 * Phetchaburi Station - Phetchaburi main station.
 * Hua Hin Station - Provincial Station for Hua Hin in Prachuap Khiri Khan with crew changing station.
 * Wang Phong Station- One of the stations in Pran Buri. Also for the nearby Thanarat Military Camp. More trains stop here for Pran Buri than Pran Buri Station itself.
 * Pran Buri Station- Smaller station for Pran Buri, with a well-established Saturday Night Market opposite the station.
 * Prachuap Khiri Khan Station - Prachuap Khiri Khan main station.
 * Bang Saphan Yai Station - Regional town station. All trains going further south must stop here.
 * Chumphon Station - Main Chumphon station, locomotive depot with refuelling facility
 * Lang Suan Station- Provincial Station in Chumphon. Furthest extent of southern services from Thonburi.
 * Ban Thung Pho Junction - Southern container yard, for Khiri Rat Nikhom Branch.
 * Khiri Rat Nikhom Station - Terminus for the Khiri Rat Nikhom Branch and the railway to Phang Nga and Tanun (Phuket).
 * Surat Thani Station - Crew changing station and Surat Thani main station.
 * Thung Song Junction - Locomotive depot, refuelling facility and junction for Kantang Branch.
 * Trang Station - Trang main station.
 * Kantang Station - Terminus of Kantang Branch.
 * Khao Chum Thong Junction - Junction for Nakhon Si Thammarat Branch.
 * Nakhon Si Thammarat Station - Terminus of Nakhon Si Thammarat Branch. Nakhon Si Thammarat main station.
 * Phatthalung Station - Phatthalung main station, crew changing station
 * Hat Yai Junction - Main junction for Malaysia and Singapore and Main Line of Southern Line, Locomotive Depot and refueling facility. Main Songkhla Station.
 * Padang Besar Station - International KTM station in Malaysia. Trains continue to Butterworth (Penang) and further.
 * Pattani Station - formerly Khok Pho station, Pattani main station.
 * Yala Station - Main Yala station, crew changing station
 * Tanyong Mat Station - for Ra Ngae district and Narathiwat.
 * Su-ngai Kolok Station - Terminus of Southern Line. Used to be an international station until the termination of cross border services.

Namtok Branch

 * Thon Buri Station - Terminus of Western Line
 * Taling Chan Junction - Junction for Bangsue - Taling Chan link (also known as Rama 6 Line), the connection between south and north SRT systems opened with the building of the only rail bridge across the Chao Phraya River in 1925.
 * Salaya Station - Bangkok suburban station close to Mahidol University (Salaya Campus)
 * Nakhon Pathom Station - Nakhon Pathom main station.
 * Nong Pladuk Junction - Junction for Suphan Buri and Kanchanaburi.
 * Suphanburi Station - A 2-car DMU operates to Bangkok in the early morning and from Bangkok in the evening.
 * Kanchanaburi Station - Main Kanchanaburi station
 * Nam Tok Station - Terminus of Western Line.

Eastern Line
The Eastern Line begins at Bangkok before heading through Chachoengsao, Prachinburi to terminate at Aranyaprathet in Sa Kaew Province, 255 kilometers from Bangkok. There is a reopened rail link to Cambodia from Aranyaprathet. A branch line also connects Khlong Sip Kao Junction to the Northeastern Line at Kaeng Khoi Junction. At Chachoengsao Junction, there is another branch to Sattahip. Along the route to Sattahip, at Si Racha Junction, there is yet another branch towards Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port and further at Khao Chi Chan Junction for Map Ta Phut Port, in Rayong.

As of January 2023, all services terminate at Bangkok (Hua Lamphong) station. No services run to Krung Thep Aphiwat Central Terminal.

 * Makkasan Station - the main depot of SRT (Makkasan Works)
 * Hua Mak Station - Bangkok suburban station
 * Hua Takhe Station - Junction for ICD.
 * Chachoengsao Junction - Junction for Laem Chabang (double-track railway opened January 2012 ) and Aranyaprathet Line. Main Chachoengsao station.
 * Khlong Sip Kao Junction- Junction for the Aranyaprathet Line and the Cargo Link to Kaeng Khoi Junction.
 * Prachin Buri Station- Main Prachin Buri Province Rail Station.
 * Kabin Buri Station- Half of long-distance Aranyaprathet Line services terminate here. In Prachin Buri Province.
 * Sa Kaeo Station - Main Sa Kaeo station
 * Ban Klong Luk Border Station - Terminus of Aranyaprathet Main Line.
 * Chonburi Station- Main Chonburi station
 * Si Racha Junction - Junction for Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port.
 * Pattaya Station - Railway station for Pattaya City.
 * Khao Chi Chan Junction- Junction for Sattahip Commercial Port and Map Taphut Freight Line
 * Ban Phlu Ta Luang Station - One of railway stations from Sattahip
 * U Taphao Station - One of railway stations from Sattahip
 * Chuk Samet Station - Terminus for current, operational, ordinary train from Bangkok.
 * Map Ta Phut Station - Terminus of East Coast Line - freight trains only.

Maeklong Line
The Maeklong Railway, also operated by the SRT, is independent of the national rail network and is split into two sections. The line begins at Wongwian Yai in Bangkok before terminating at the Mahachai station in Samut Sakhon, where a ferry is used by passengers to cross the Tha Chin River. The line starts again across the river at Ban Laem and continues until the Mae Klong station of Samut Songkhram.

Services
SRT operates different types of rail services, each with different service patterns as outlined below:

 * Special Express - fastest services, calling at the least number of intermediate stations between the origin and destination. Generally only call at main provincial stations.
 * Express - slightly slower services, calling at a larger number of intermediate stations than Special Express. Generally call at all main provincial stations and at some major towns.
 * Rapid - slower services calling at all main provincial stations and major towns and some smaller towns.
 * Ordinary - services calling at all stations and some railway halts, originating or terminating in Bangkok.
 * Commuter - services calling at all stations and all railway halts, originating or terminating in Bangkok.
 * Local - services calling at all stations and all railway halts, originating or terminating outside Bangkok.
 * Excursion - special services running on weekends such as the weekend Nam Tok Sai Yok Noi and Suan Son Pradiphat services, or services running on specific days or time periods such as the Pa Sak Jolasid Dam excursion train running only during the winter and the steam train services on designated days.

Long-distance services
SRT operates long-distance passenger services on the following lines:

Northern Line

 * Bangkok-Ayutthaya-Lopburi-Nakhon Sawan-Phitsanulok-Lampang-Chiang Mai

Northeastern Line

 * Bangkok-Ayutthaya-Saraburi-Nakhon Ratchasima-Khon Kaen-Udon Thani-Nong Khai-Vientiane (Laos)
 * Bangkok-Ayutthaya-Saraburi-Nakhon Ratchasima-Buriram-Surin-Sisaket-Ubon Ratchathani

Eastern Line

 * Bangkok-Chachoengsao-Prachinburi-Kabin Buri-Sa Kaeo-Aranyaprathet
 * Bangkok-Chachoengsao-Chonburi-Pattaya-Sattahip

Southern Line

 * Bangkok-Nakhon Pathom-Hua Hin-Surat Thani-Hat Yai-Padang Besar (Malaysia)(International Express)
 * Bangkok-Nakhon Pathom-Hua Hin-Surat Thani-Hat Yai-Su-ngai Kolok
 * Bangkok-Nakhon Pathom-Hua Hin-Surat Thani-Thung Song-Nakhon Si Thammarat
 * Bangkok-Nakhon Pathom-Hua Hin-Surat Thani-Thung Song-Kantang
 * Bangkok-Nakhon Pathom-Kanchanaburi-Nam Tok

International services
Until 2016, SRT operated international services to Butterworth in Penang, Malaysia, in conjunction with Malaysian state operator KTM. Direct trains from Bangkok now only run as far as Padang Besar, due to the opening of KTM ETS.

Since 2021, there 3 return trains operate from Hat Yai Junction and terminate at Padang Besar across the Malaysia–Thailand border. SRT also allows operation of the Eastern and Oriental Express on their tracks which runs from Singapore to Bangkok and vice versa, with a few trips to Laos and Chiang Mai Province.

A link across the First Thai–Lao Friendship Bridge to Thanaleng railway station, near Vientiane, opened in March 2009. In December 2010, following Chinese plans to extend their standard-gauge railway network to Xishuangbanna on the China–Laos border and further into Laos, the Thai government agreed to start negotiations on building a standard-gauge network. This would initially involve two lines: from Bangkok to the Lao border, and a longer line from Bangkok along the peninsula to the Malay border.

The rail link to Cambodia via Poipet from the railhead at Aranyaprathet was constructed in 1941, but was closed in 1961 due to strained Thai-Cambodian relations during the Cold War. The rail connection was repaired and reopened in April 2019. Cross-border services briefly ran until it was suspended by the outbreak of COVID-19. Currently, no cross-border services operate.

Railway connections to Myanmar (Burma), notably the infamous Death Railway, are defunct.

Rail links to adjacent countries

 * Malaysia - same gauge
 * Padang Besar Checkpoint: open
 * Su-ngai Kolok- Rantau Panjang Checkpoint: tracks connected but rail checkpoint closed, may reopen.
 * Laos - same gauge
 * Thai-Lao Friendship Bridge at Nong Khai Province, across the Mekong River: open
 * Cambodia
 * Aranyaprathet-Poipet Checkpoint: tracks connected but rail checkpoint closed due to COVID-19.
 * Myanmar
 * Three Pagodas Pass Checkpoint: defunct, but projected extension will rebuild the route.
 * see also Death Railway

Commuter trains
The SRT operates commuter rail services from Bangkok along the Northern and Northeastern Lines up to Ayutthaya, Ban Phachi Junction, Lopburi and Kaeng Khoi Junction. Ten trains run along the route on a daily basis. A new service serving between Thon Buri and Salaya was launched on 22 October 2010, extending to Nakhon Pathom on 1 June 2022 to act as a feeder service for the SRT Light Red Line.

The Red Line project is a new commuter rail system also owned by the SRT and will replace portions of rail lines running through Bangkok, eliminating at-grade crossings. Currently, two lines operate: the Dark Red Line and the Light Red Line.

Freight
Thai railways transported around 11 million tons of freight per year in 2007–2012, which was around 2% of the total amount of freight moved by all modes of transportation. While it is possible for freight trains to travel between Thailand and the neighboring countries (Malaysia and Laos), the amount of international rail freight presently constitutes only a minuscule portion of Thailand's foreign trade. In 2012, merely 95 thousand tons of export cargo left Thailand by rail, as compared to 12 million tons of cargo exported by road, and 114 million tons of cargo exported by ship. For import, the rail transport's share was even smaller.

Thai railways transport both bulk freight (primarily oil products and construction materials) and containerized freight. Most of the freight movement is between Bangkok and sea ports (in particular, between the deepwater port of Laem Chabang and the container terminal in Lad Krabang, in Bangkok's eastern suburbs).

In an attempt to increase the railway's share of the nation's freight transportation market, in 2016 the SRT, in a joint project with Japan, started experimenting with small, 12-foot containers. It is thought that, being smaller than the standard 20-foot containers, these containers can be more easily transported by truck between a rail station and the end customer. These containers are being tried on two routes from Bangkok's Bang Sue station: a 722-km route to Lamphun Province in the north of the country,  and a 433-km route to Khon Kaen in the northeast.

Steam locomotives
Used for special services only.

Double tracking
In 2018, 91% of Thailand's 4,044 km rail network was a single-track railway. A government initiative to move air and road transport to rail passed a major milestone on 28 December 2017 when the SRT signed nine contracts costing 69.5 billion baht with private contractors to complete track duplication on 702 km of the SRT network. The government's aim is to reduce the nation's logistical overhead, some 1.75 trillion baht, by moving air and road freight to rail because moving a tonne of freight by rail costs 0.93 baht per kilometre compared with 1.72 baht by road, but 86 percent of Thailand's freight moves by road and only 2 percent by rail.

Completed double tracking projects:

 * Kaeng Khoi Junction - Chacheongsao Junction
 * Thanon Chira Junction - Khon Kaen

Phase one of the project includes the following five sections of double-track railway:
 * Map Kabao in Saraburi Province to Thanon Chira Junction in Nakhon Ratchasima Province, 134 km
 * Lopburi to Pak Nam Pho in Nakhon Sawan, 145 km
 * Nakhon Pathom to Hua Hin, 169 km
 * Hua Hin to Prachuap Khiri Khan, 84 km
 * Prachuap Khiri Khan to Chumphon, 168 km

Cabinet approval is expected to allow the signing of contracts for phase two of the track duplication project by March 2018. The second phase will add a second track to 2,217 km of single track over nine rail links at a cost of 398 billion baht. Government plans call for an overall investment of 600 billion baht to create 2,588 km of double-track railway.

Phase 2

 * 285 km Pak Nam Pho - Den Chai, estimated to cost Bt59.3 billion
 * 308 km Thanon Chira Junction - Ubon Ratchathani, costing Bt36 billion
 * 167 km Khon Kaen - Nong Khai, costing Bt25.8 billion
 * 168 km Chumphon - Surat Thani, costing Bt23 billion
 * 321 km Surat Thani - Hat Yai Junction - Songkhla, costing Bt56.1 billion
 * 189 km Den Chai - Chiang Mai, costing Bt57.9 billion
 * 45 km Hat Yai Junction - Padang Besar, costing Bt7.86 billion.

Phase 3 (new routes)

 * Den Chai- Chiang Rai
 * Ban Phai - Nakhon Phanom
 * Pak Nam Pho - Ban Phai
 * Mae Sot to Pak Nam Pho

Station demolition
The SRT board has approved a plan to demolish and rebuild 298 stations, six million baht each, as part of the track duplication. As of August 2019, the SRT board announced that the unique vanilla and maroon paints scheme would be replaced in the reconstructions of the stations with designs that "reflect local identities". Southern Line stations to the south would be painted blue, symbolizing the sea, and Northern Line stations to the north would be painted green, symbolizing forests.

Northern HSR: Bangkok–Phitsanulok–Chiang Mai (Japanese-Thai project)
Japan would provide Shinkansen technology for a high-speed rail link between Bangkok and the northern city of Chiang Mai. Phase 1 would connect Bangkok to Phitsanulok. It is estimated to cost 280 billion baht. Seven stations are planned for this segment: Bang Sue, Don Mueang, Ayutthaya, Lopburi, Nakhon Sawan, Phichit, and Phitsanulok. To reduce costs, Thai authorities have proposed reducing the number of stations, but the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) has rejected this suggestion on the grounds that it defeats the original purpose of the project. This portion of the route was scheduled to be submitted to the Thai cabinet for financial approval in August 2018.

After an initial cooperation agreement was signed in 2015, the Thai government formally requested the technical and financial assistance of the Japanese government in late-2016 for the building of the Northern HSR line to Chiang Mai. The Japanese completed a feasibility study which estimated that the project will cost 420 billion baht to build.

A feasibility study by JICA in mid-2018 reported that the train as planned would run at a loss. JICA's study projects only 10,000 passengers per day on the route, as opposed to the 30,000 per day forecasted in the original planning proposals. To be profitable from ticket sales would require 50,000 fares per day.

The Thai government announced in September 2019 that it may cancel Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed rail project after private investors declined to invest. The cost of the 670 kilometre line is estimated to be 400 billion baht. Japan has turned down the project as a bad investment due to low passenger projections.

Eastern HSR: Bangkok–U-Tapao Airport
A HSR line to the eastern seaboard was first proposed in 1996 but there was no progress for over a decade. In 2009, the government requested the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTP) to create a plan for new HSR network in Thailand that included an eastern HSR line to Rayong. The route was finalised before the 2011 election with the promise to begin construction the next year if the government was re-elected, but they lost the election. After the 2011 election, the new government reviewed all HSR plans and the SRT stated that the line would be tendered in early-2014. After the May 2014 coup there were further delays while the military government reviewed all HSR lines, initially deferring all projects. In early-2016, the government agreed to proceed with the eastern HSR route and suggested that it could be extended to Don Mueang International Airport beyond the terminus at Bang Sue Intercity Terminal thus providing a link with three airports. Extending the line would provide a link between Don Mueang Airport, Suvarnabhumi Airport, and U-Tapao International Airport in Ban Chang District.

During 2017, OTP and the Ministry of Transport in consultation with the SRT agreed that by extending the line to terminate at Don Mueang it would effectively include the long delayed extension of the Airport Rail Link (Bangkok) from Makkasan Station to Don Mueang Airport as part of the project. The Eastern Economic Corridor Office (EEC Office) in October 2017 finalised previous OTP plans to build the 10 station Eastern HSR line linking Don Mueang airport, Bang Sue, Makkasan, Suvarnabhumi Airport, Chonburi, Si Racha, Pattaya, U-Tapao Airport, and Rayong. In early-2018, the section to Rayong was excluded due to environmental and safety concerns and it was decided that the line would terminate at U-Tapao Airport.

The SRT stated that the first tenders for the Eastern HSR line are expected to be tendered by May 2018 with a four-month auction period before the contract is awarded. The cost of the project was estimated to be over 200 billion baht, of which the Thai Government would fund 123 billion baht and the private sector estimated to contribute 90 billion baht.

Two rival consortia vied for the airport link contract. The Charoen Pokphand (CP) Group-led consortium consisting of Italian-Thai Development, China Railway Construction Corporation Ltd, CH. Karnchang, and Bangkok Expressway and Metro, won the project with a 224 billion baht bid in December 2018. Their winning bid is valid until 8 November 2019. Until 16 October 2019, the consortium had refused to sign the contract, citing land expropriation and eviction problems and the consortium's request that the government share the risk in the project. Negotiations were further complicated by the resignation of the entire board of the State Railway. On 16 October 2019, news reports announced that the CP consortium intends to sign the rail deal on 25 October. Tanit Sorat, Vice-chairman of the Employers' Confederation of Thai Trade and Industry, said that the contract signing delays are "...unlikely to affect the project because the government will carry out the project smoothly. The project was eventually approved in October 2019 as a public private partnership between the Thai government and Charoen Pokphand/China Railway Construction Corporation. The assets will revert to state ownership after 50 years.

Northeastern HSR: Bangkok–Nakhon Ratchasima–Nong Khai (Sino-Thai railway project)
In November 2014, Thailand and China signed a memorandum of understanding agreeing to construct the Thai portion of the transnational railway running from Kunming, China to the Gulf of Thailand. In November 2015, both parties agreed to a division of labour. Under the framework, a joint venture would be set up to run the project. China would conduct feasibility studies, design the system, construct tunnels and bridges, and lay track. Thailand would conduct social and environmental impact studies, expropriate land for construction, handle general civil engineering and power supply, and supply construction materials.

Once built, China would operate and maintain the system for the first three years of operation. Between the third and the seventh years, both countries would share responsibility. Later Thailand would take on responsibility with China as adviser. China would train Thai personnel to operate and maintain the system.

Dual standard-gauge tracks would be laid throughout the project. In Thailand, two routes would diverge at a junction in Kaeng Khoi District in Saraburi Province. One to connect Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi. The other route to connect Kaeng Khoi with Map Ta Phut of Rayong Province. From Kaeng Khoi tracks would lead north to Nakhon Ratchasima and on to Nong Khai Province. Construction would be divided into four sections: Bangkok-Kaeng Khoi, Map Ta Phut-Kaeng Khoi, Kaeng Khoi-Nakhon Ratchasima, Nakhon Ratchasima-Nong Khai.

Construction of Thailand's 873-kilometre-long portion of the railway system started in December 2017 and the Phase 1 line is due to open in 2023. It will connect to a 417 km line from Vientiane to the northern Lao border and a 520 km line from the Lao border to Kunming.

Southern HSR: Bangkok–Hua Hin
This line would link Bangkok with Hua Hin. It would be 211 km long and estimated costs in 2016 were 152 billion baht.

title: State Railway of Thailand


text:
Talk:Peru–Bolivian Confederation

Flag
There's an error on the flag.
 * Its background must be red or a darkest color, nor a kind of purple.
 * About the coats of arms:
 * North Peru Coat of Arms must be like this (more beauty, of course):
 * [[Image:PeruBolivia CoatofArms test.PNG]]

 * North Peru CoA its almost good, but it must have flags on the exterior.
 * Bolivian CoA it's not good. It must be, more or less, like this:
 * [[Image:Bolivia CoA test.PNG]]

 * The olive is not a cicle, there's the example:
 * Image deleted

Please, if there's more questions, go to my user talk. --Huhsunqu 05:32, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The bolivian coat of arms at this moment had 10 stars. Now it have 9 because they lost the department of Litoral (now, Antofagasta, Chile). Also the article didn't detailed about the problems with Chile, the war and the disolution of the Confederacy --KRATK 22:10, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Audiencia de Charcas had no title to the Pacific Ocean
For Messhermit, another prove that Bolivia did not held any title to access the Pacific Ocean...(if you still don't have enough). It's from 1559, here you have a "decreto real" from the spanish King Felipe the second, when he defined the newly created Audiencia de Charcas (Bolivia) where he defined the limits between the "Audiencia de Lima" (Peru) and "Audiencia de Chile":

"Porque es bien que se sepa los límites con que dicha Audiencia (Lima)...declaramos y mandamos que tenga por distrito todo lo que de la provincia de Chile, con los puertos que de la ciudad de Lima hasta las dichas provincias de Chile y los lugares de la costa della".

You CLEARLY see that Peru and Chile limited together by order of the spanish King... no space for any other country inbetween.--84.58.58.214 02:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

 * where is the link? Messhermit 03:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is the truth, extracted from a US source:

 * Desde 1542 aproximadamente, lo que es el actual territorio boliviano dependió administrativa y jurídicamente del Virreinato Peruano. Por su gran extensión, fue dividido en varias audiencias. En 1561 se creó la Real Audiencia de Charcas que dependió del Virreinato Peruano hasta el año 1776. La jurisdicción territorial de la Audiencia de Charcas se extendía desde el Cuzco, al norte, hasta Buenos Aires (incluyendo Paraguay y Tucumán) al sur y desde el Océano Pacífico (Atacama) al oeste, hasta la frontera con el Brasil, al este.

 * LAS INTENDENCIAS Y LOS PARTIDOS EN LA AUDIENCIA DE CHARCAS (1776)
 * Intendencia del Potosí: Chayanta, Atacama, Chichas, Porco, Lípez.

US SOURCE? made by Rossana Barragán, Ximena Medinaceli, Seemin Qayum, Silvia Arze? Bolivians, probably students or "local historians"? LOL, you are kidding me... I am talking about "DECRETOS" from the only authority in that time, which was spain and the King. Not any modern kind of interpretation of Bolivians, who surely will tell you that they had access to the sea. I could also publish a site, which tells that your house is my properity. means...Source of ZERO value. I have given you extracts of the "Recopilacion: Leyes de Indias" which defined all matters of spanish colonies, So please, a bit more seriousness. Besides your hate against bolivians, you have not proved anything of the stated before as wrong. Messhermit 20:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC) Another Example:
 * Luego –por un conflicto suscitado en Cuzco con la Audiencia de Lima- el mismo Rey- Felipe II- modificó la jurisdicción y estableció que gobernaría al territorio del norte hasta el Collao, provincia de Sayabamba y Carabaya; al noroeste las provincias de Moxos y Chunchos; al este las zonas del desierto de Atacama hasta el Mar del Sur – Océano Pacífico- y sudeste las tierras del Chaco y las jurisdicciones de Tucumán, Juríes y Diaguitas.- Su procedimiento fue establecido mediante la Real Provisión dictada por don Felipe II en Monzón de Aragón, el 4 de octubre de 1563.

And a map of the Time: Can you now contradict those facts? I believe you can't. Messhermit 03:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * its the same page... again the same girls telling that the coast belonged to them, but they don't show any COMPLETE AND ORIGINAL CITATION that Audiencia had any access to the Pacific Ocean, only THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION, Value : 0

girls? Once again putting personal feelings and not concrete facts on the table? childish... Links? none so far, only POV Messhermit 20:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC) But wait, there is even more:

 * Los límites originales de la Audiencia de Charcas (de la cual surgió Bolivia) fueron establecidos por medio de la Real Cédula de 29 de agosto de 1559. En parte, dice: "En la ciudad de La Plata de la Nueva Toledo resida otra nuestra Audiencia y Cancillería Real [...], la cual tenga por distrito la Provincia de los Charcas y todo el Collao [...], partiendo términos: por el septentrión con la Real Audiencia de Lima y provincias no descubiertas; por el Mediodía, con la Real Audiencia de Chile, y por Levante y Poniente con los dos mares del norte y del sur".
 * Como se ve, la Real Audiencia de Charcas se hallaba entre la Audiencia de Lima y la de Santiago, y, por lo tanto, daba al Mar del Sur (el Océano Pacífico)
 * Por consiguiente, cuando nació la República de Bolivia, el 6 de agosto de 1825, su litoral se extendía desde el río Loa hasta el río Salado o Paposo, tal como se consigna en cédulas reales y en abundantes datos históricos.

now we are getting nearer to start a real analyse, its the same text from above, but at least a citation, eventhough its not complete...: you make a TRIMMED (!) citation from the "decretos", you quoted:

"...la cual tenga por distrito la Provincia de los Charcas y todo el Collao [...], partiendo términos: por el septentrión con la Real Audiencia de Lima y provincias no descubiertas; por el Mediodía, con la Real Audiencia de Chile, y por Levante y Poniente con los dos mares del norte y del sur"

this is knowingly the "strongest" arguement that Bolivia has to support its claim to the pacific ocean, and firstly sounds terribly good for the Bolivian position, right? But you know how the complete sentence is (where you KNOWINGLY OR NOT put [...])? I will give you the complete citation of your TRIMMED version:

"tenga por distrito la provincia de Charcas y todo el Collao DESDE EL PUEBLO DE AYAVIRE POR EL CAMINO DE HURCOSUYO, DESDE EL PUEBLO DE ASSILLO POR EL CAMINO DE HUMASUYO, DESDE ATUNCANA POR EL CAMINO DE AREQUIPA HACIA LA PARTE DE LOS CHARCAS, INCLUSIVE CON LAS PROVINCIAS DE SANGABANA, CARABAYA, JURIES Y DIEGUITAS, MOJOS Y CHUNCHOS, Y SANTA CRUZ DE LA SIERRA, partiendo términos, por el septentrión con la Real Audiencia de Lima y provincias no descubiertas, por el mediodía con la Real Audiencia de Chile y por el levante y poniente con los mares del Norte y del Sur y línea de la demarcación entre las coronas de los reinos de Castilla y Portugal por la parte de la provincia de Santa Cruz del Brasil."

If you are a honest man and really interested in truth (I still hope), some bells should now ring in your head... but you see this shades a totally different light on the case, as it clearly defines a frontier along a specific interior landpath "...por distrito(interior landpath)partiendo terminos". Why did you intentionally leave this out? Or did you probably find the TRIMMED version on a Bolivian page? The full citation clearly reveals, that Charcas was a completely mediteranean territory. You probably know (guess you are somehow experienced in this material): North sea =(Atlantic)= East South Sea = (Pacific)= West

In this text, they are directional explainations. You surely know that the Audiencia de Charcas itself ...NEVER EVER... reached the Atlantic Ocean (North Sea) in the east, you will SURELY agree on this. Same logic applies for the Pacific (South Sea) in the west and is fully logical, when you quote the interior path defining the frontier, which was missing in your text, as it is giving North-South & East-West indications.

Nice interpretation! It clearly makes you think that its right.... Any link to prove that? I see none so far... Messhermit 20:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC) And let us not forget what Simón Bolívar write when he stablished the Bolivian Republic:

Considerando: Dado en el Palacio de Gobierno de Chuquisaca a 28 de diciembre de 1825--Simón Bolívar
 * Primero: Que estas provincias no tienen un puerto habilitado;
 * Segundo: Que en el Partido de Atacama se encuentra el denominado Cobija, que proporciona muchas ventajas;
 * Tercero: Que es justa recompensa al mérito contraído por el Gran Mariscal de Ayacucho, la aplicación de su nombre al anunciado puerto, y oída la diputación permanente;
 * Decreto:
 * 1º Quedará habilitado desde le primero de enero entrante, por puerto mayor de estas provincias, con el nombre de "Puerto La Mar", el de Cobija.
 * 2º Se arreglarán allí las oficinas correspondientes a la Hacienda Pública.
 * 3º El Gran Mariscal de Ayacucho, Antonio José de Sucre, queda encargado de la ejecución de este decreto. Imprímase, publíquese y circúlese.

And the list can go on and on... Messhermit 03:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC) this man was really funny, you already mentioned him... but I repeat, Bolivar never had souverignity over the COMPLETE southamerican territory to "Award Bolivia" (like you once said) with any external territories he just felt like (guess then he penalized Chile, if he awarded Bolivia...?!?!). His establishment is the best prove and revelation, that Bolivia (Alto Peru) never had real access to these territories, from one day to the other he dictated '''incorporation, renaming, foundation of settlements etc... giving evidence of no previously existing bond to this place.''' Conclusion: I can't award my girlfriend with a house, which is your property. Herewith all your points have been rebuted. Cheers and wish you a nice evening --194.203.215.254 18:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC) Nice yoke! trust me, the example that you just gave is only that.
 * The 1st example involves Felipe II, king of Spain. He established Atacama as apart of the Audiencia de Charcas.
 * The 2nd example involves Simón Bolivar, who established the Republic of Bolivia after having defeated the remnants of the Spaniard Army. He used the principle of Utti posidettis, and awarded Bolivia all the territory that was part of the Audiencia de Charcas. This was approved by representatives of Peru and Argentina (at that time, Rio de la Plata).

SImón Bolivar was a great man. Your jokes only show how ignorant in the topic you are. BTW, do us a favor and come back when you learn to respect bolvians and reality. Messhermit 20:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Our friends here pretend to impose their ilussion that Bolivia was created without an access to the Pacific Ocean. Isn't this a lame attemp to contradict history? SEVERAL MAPS can be found, depicting Peru and Bolivia (with interesting shapes). In all of them, Atacama is Bolivian.... so, we must listen to only 2 individuals and ignore the overwhelming historical evidence that prove the ownership of Atacama?

Map of Peru and Bolivia (Around 1856) Map of Independent Latin America Map of Colonial Latin America Map of Peru and Bolivia (date Unknown) Map of Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador and Brazil Map of Peru and Bolivia

Not from Bolivian Pages. Interesting .... Messhermit 20:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Different flag than Spanish Wiki
Our flag is differnt then the flag on the Spanish and Dutch Wikis. I trust the other wikis more, because since it is part of the histories of a Spanish Speaking countries, it is more likely that people who would know about such things would edit the Spanish Wiki, not to mention two wikis use it vs just the English Wiki. --ThrashedParanoid

 * Personally, I don't agree with the flag that is displayed on Wiki:Es . The main reason is because it's not an accurate description of the flag, it's just the coat of arms of the 3 republics together. The one that is here has also being used in the previous Wikis, and I believe that it's fair enought to display in this article. Messhermit 13:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Page is unprotected
Please sort out differences here, of if you can't, request help. It would be a shame to have to protect again. Rich  Farmbrough 00:44 10  March 2006 (UTC).

 * The whole issue is farily simple: Some IP editor is claiming that Atacama was part of Chile since its independence. This is not only false but only a PoV pushing:
 * Atacama was part of Chile after the defeat of Bolivian forces in the War of The Pacific, no questions about that. But Atacama being chilean before that period of time is simply false. Messhermit 03:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Dates of Confederation
I am somewhat confused by the dates of confederation presented in this article. The information box has establishment and disestablishment dates of 9 May 1837 and 25 Aug 1839, respectively. However, the article itself states that the confederation proclaimed on 28 Oct 1836. To makes things more unclear, WorldStatesmen.org (http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Bolivia.html) states that the dates of confederation were 28 Oct 1836 to 20 Feb 1839. The Encyclopedia of World History states that the confederation lasted from 1835-1839, and that the confederation's defeat by Chile on 20 Jan 1839 brought the confederation to an end. How is it that so many sources can come up with so many different dates? --Mike Beidler 04:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Territorial (Map) Issues
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:PERU_MAPA_1865.JPG

Peru's eastern border with Brazil is not the one defined in the current map. According to the 1865 map provided above and on the territorial history of Peru, the border was further east; almost to the point of making the northern "tail-looking" part of Peru more of a flat wall (effectively making the "tail" much shorter). Check the Chincha Islands War map.-- MarshalN20 | T a l k 06:45, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Sentence Fragment
"Nonetheless Simón Bolívar, who had liberated the territory and destroyed the last remnants of the Spanish army."

What did he do? Nonetheless what?

2601:600:A37F:F111:35F6:FAB7:12A3:32DC (talk) 18:42, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Peru–Bolivian Confederation


text: Category:Companies of Saudi Arabia

title: Category:Companies of Saudi Arabia