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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject R&B and Soul Music

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''' For discussion related to music on Wikipedia but not to the project, please use the Music Noticeboard. '''

Automated process to tag articles in project scope and/or auto-assess unassessed articles
A request has been made to tag & auto-assess articles in the scope of this project based on categories and/or auto-assess the project's unassessed articles.

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Feel free to raise any questions or concerns regarding this process. The task will commence after 72 hours if there are no objections.

 E d u e m o n i ↑ talk ↓ 17:35, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE issue at Chris Brown (American singer)
Opinions are needed on this matter. Earlier, I reverted to the previous formatting, per my reasoning at Talk:Chris Brown (American singer). Splitting up the sections to where his domestic violence case is highlighted is a sure case of WP:UNDUE. There is no valid reason to highlight the section by making it its own section and separating it from his career efforts at that time, especially since it (the domestic violence case) affected those efforts. It makes more sense to keep all that information there in one place. This is also how biographies of living people are typically done -- avoiding Criticism or Controversy sections by themselves. They especially follow chronological order. If the Michael Jackson article (which is featured) can combine controversy with career happenings without any problems, then I do not see why this article cannot as well. Flyer22 (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

"All In Love Is Fair"
Trying to work out if there were one, two or more songs/albums of this name on the go in the mid 1970's.

Nancy Wilson (jazz singer) links to All In Love Is Fair as a 1974 album of hers. All in love is fair redirects to Innervisions (a 1973 Stevie Wonder album) which mentions that "All in Love is Fair" was a later hit for Barbra Streisand, who recorded it and released as a single in 1974.

I suspect the matter needs disambiguation - any experts here who might fancy having a go at this? Ta. - TB (talk) 22:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Billboard Decade-End as a parallel to Billboard Year-End
Please comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Music so that all discussion is in one place.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

AFD for Dario (Singer)
I figured I'd cross post this here to get some input from the R&B WikiProject:

 * This looks like no consensus to me. I Help, When I Can.[12] 22:23, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

If I Could Turn Back the Hands of Time
Wikipedia has an article about a song of this title. But it refers to something from the nineties by R. Kelly.

Unmentioned is the fact that there was a different song, of the same title, recorded by Tyrone Davis. I hadn't heard this song in years but Otis Clay played it at his Millennium Park concert in Chicago the other night. It's a great song, and Wikipedia should have something about it. I myself know nothing about it or about Tyrone Davis so I'm not really a potential author, but it should not be unmentioned.

On further review, there is a Wikipedia page about this song: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_Back_the_Hands_of_Time_(song). But the title of this song is "Turn Back the Hands of Time", not "If I Could Turn Back the Hands of Time". Disambiguation links might be appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stevecoh1 (talk • contribs) 21:21, 6 August 2011

 * I've added to the hatnote and to the text, for clarification. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:37, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Prince proposal
Please add your opinion. I Help, When I Can.[12] 22:20, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Need books
hello,

if someone has any books about Otis Redding, please ping on my talk page. Thanks.-- ♫GoP♫ T C N 10:59, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Page location discussion
I have opened an WP:RFC at Talk:T.H.E._(The_Hardest_Ever).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Ciara proposal
Please join this discussion. Thanks, Pancake (talk) 19:05, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month
Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:R&B and Soul Music will have interest in putting on events related to women's roles in these genres; as musicians, performers, subjects, etc. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 19:10, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Prince albums
The ledes for some articles on Prince's albums:

 * 3121 (2006): "3121 ... is the thirty-first studio album by Prince..."
 * Planet Earth (2007): "Planet Earth is the twenty-fifth studio album by American musician Prince..."
 * Lotusflower (2009): "Lotusflow3r ... is the twenty-sixth studio album by American musician Prince..."
 * 20Ten (2010): "20Ten is the thirty-fifth studio album by American musician Prince..."

So something's wrong here, but I've no idea what's right. Maybe somebody could clear this up?— Chowbok  ☠  23:31, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of List of unreleased Michael Jackson material for featured list removal
nominated List of unreleased Michael Jackson material for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Rubiscous (talk) 17:20, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

A new barnstar
I present a new barnstar for your WikiProject!

Jill Scott, Dionne Warwick, Ray Charles and the now sadly departed Whitney Houston. All in one barnstar. Feel free to hand it out to people who improve Wikipedia's coverage of R&B and Soul.

—Tom Morris (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I love it!!! Eduemoni↑talk↓  03:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

FAR notification
I have nominated 4 Minutes (Madonna song) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dana boomer (talk) 21:47, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Misha B
Two points...how do I put a newish artist [Misha B] under your wing, secondly

Me and another editor Rui78901 are having a difference of opinion about layout and content of the Misha B page, over the last three weeks the have been a few reverts, both ways, we have started a discussion on the talk page, if you have time please contribute any advice, comment or recommendation either way or other. Thank you in advance. ....Zoebuggie☺whispers 13:34, 5 August 2012

 * I forgot to say If a project team has any free wiki time could they Assess the Misha B article it would be fab is Misha B UK solo vocalist singing in various genres, primarily in Contemporary R&B and Soul, but also British Hip Hop, Rap, Hip Hop Soul, Grime, Reggae Fusion and Pop - before X factor and after. How do I get the bot to pick her up for an assessment? ... Zoebuggie☺  whispers  16:27, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Misha B music genres
Question that you may ask is does Misha B come under your Soul and R&B wing.

Misha's music genre is hard to pin down :) MB is an artist who does not want to be boxed into Genres, but expressly/actively determined to mix genres and experiment with styles. Below is a non-exhaustive list of sources that refer to Bryan's genre. The Genres in normal brackets are simple ones I have not so far used on the info box.

 * R&B

 * soul inc (Motown)

 * but also

 * hip hop

 * rap

 * (Grime)

 * reggae fusion inc (drum and base)(dancehall)

 * (dance)

 * (rock)

 * (indie)

 * (pop)

 * (funk) (blues)

 * (R&B, hip hop, soul, (funk), (blues),(pop), (acoustic?) and (indie) <my own collection of her youtube vids> )
 * (R&B, hip hop, soul, (funk), (blues),(pop), (acoustic?) and (indie) <my own collection of her youtube vids> )

 * ... Zoebuggie☺ whispers  16:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

 * P.S. For her info box, I am inclined to drop the last 3-5 genres. ...Zoebuggie☺whispers 16:47, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

A bit of help from the Wikiproject.
I nominated Featured list candidates/List of songs recorded by Leona Lewis/archive2 over a month ago and it hasn't had many comments from reviewers and editors. One of the reviewers hasn't been online for over a week, and another hasn't responded to some comments I have replied. I was advised to leave a note on the list's wikiproject's asking for anyone who may have some time to spare to review the list and leave comments. A vote on whether or not you feel the article is worthy of FL status would also be appreciated so that the FLC can make some progress. Thanks. Aaron  • You Da  One 23:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Good article reassessment/Tina Turner/1
Tina Turner, an article that  may be interested in, has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the good article reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article.

Missing My Baby at FAC
Just a note that I've nominated "Missing My Baby" at FAC and would like my fellow members to provide a comment on its nomination. Best, Jona  talk to me  14:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Justin Bieber listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Жастин Бибер and Джастин Бибер. Since you had some involvement with the Justin Bieber redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). 76.65.128.252 (talk) 04:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Spoken word soul

The article Spoken word soul has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * The artists mentioned in this article have all combined spoken word with musical accompaniment. However, someone seems to have retroactively applied "spoken word soul" to what are actually diverse styles of music, possibly based on a quote from Shades of J (who released an album called Spoken World Soul). See Talk:Spoken word soul.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Gyrofrog (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Spoken word soul
On a related note: Category:Spoken word soul has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Wikiproject Leona Lewis proposal
Hello, I have proposed the created of Wikiproject Leona Lewis at WikiProject Council/Proposals/Leona Lewis. Please would you cast a vote or raise any questions in a discussion. Thanks. AARON • TALK  14:06, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Featured list candidates/List of songs recorded by Adele/archive1
Would anyone from the Wikiproject like to leave any comments which they feel concerns them or would cast a vote in support or opposition based on your findings, I would much appreciate it. The list has garnered several good (and resolved) reviews, but no votes have been cast. Thanks. AARON • TALK  12:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Urban jazz for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Urban jazz is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Urban jazz until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:45, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

GAR
Speed Demon (song), an article that your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article.--Tomcat (7) 18:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Misha B
If anyone has a free moment an independent third party comment about what music genres should be listed on the Misha B / Talk:Misha B pages  would be useful. Misha B has only released two official tracks, but has covered dozens of others, the is references to her influences and forthcoming album too.... Zoebuggie☺ whispers  13:10, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Hush Hush
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Hush Hush regarding the page "Hush Hush." Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, Tyrol5   [Talk]  02:09, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks fellow wiki-mate, but it seems the discussion has already been solved. Eduemoni↑talk↓  05:56, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Vital articles
There is a discussion regarding which music articles should be deemed vital to the project occuring here. Your input would be appreciated. GabeMc (talk|contribs)  21:27, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

talk:Black Entertainment Television
Request is still discussed; comment while it lasts. --George Ho (talk) 02:31, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Request
Not sure why it is not on the list, but in my opinion a band as influential as Zapp really deserves a huge cleanup and slightly more expansion. If anyone will read this please add it to the to do list of articles to improve on, thanks. I will be making efforts to improve the article too. Kaleidoscopic God (talk) 17:12, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's health and appearance article
Anyone willing to help out with the Michael Jackson's health and appearance article? The same back and forth mess is still going on at that article, such as with this and this edit by "new editor" Firstcomp, especially with regard to Jackson's skin color and whatever plastic surgery he might have had. See Talk:Michael Jackson's health and appearance for further detail. Flyer22 (talk) 21:56, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Dazz Band
Dazz Band needs an accuracy check and probably more citations. It also needs more people watchlisting the article due to slow-motion attempts to change the information in the article in ways that contradict the listed sources.

If the listed sources are factually incorrect, they need to be augmented with other reliable sources so that it is clear that the dispute is based on contradictory reliable sources. If it's clear that the sources used are actually in error, this needs to be logged on the talk page, the source replaced, and the article corrected.

I will be asking for PC1 on this article. If PC1 is added, it can be removed when either the number of watchers grows or when the issues that are leading to the slow-motion edit war (namely, changing information that contradicts a presumably-reliable source without supplying a reliable source to back the newly-added information) are resolved. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  16:56, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

"Bad"
There's a bit of a dispute at Bad (Michael Jackson song) over a date.

 * 1) This documentary says the video was filmed in 1986.
 * 2) The article itself says the song was recorded in January 1987, but this claim is unsourced.
 * 3) This Allmusic link says the album was recorded between January and July 1987.

Which date is right? And where could I find sources verifying either date? Googling "Michael Jackson" "Bad" "January 1987" turned up only Wikipedia mirrors and false positives. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 06:22, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject R&B and Soul Music At Wikimania 2014
Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 14:45, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Grammy Award templates
Suddenly a raft of less important Grammy Awards templates are being created. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Awards and prizes.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:06, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

The wrong meaning of singer-songwriter
Tonight I noticed that a bunch of articles show the wrong meaning of singer-songwriter, which ought to be limited to a primarily solo artist who writes political or socially topical songs. Think of Bob Dylan or Woody Guthrie.

The R&B articles I have been seeing contain the mistaken assumption that a singer-songwriter is simply a singer who writes songs. For instance, Michael Jackson was never a singer-songwriter, even though he sang and wrote. Somebody who dances and sings is not a singer-songwriter. Somebody who writes popular songs is not a singer-songwriter.

Another problems is that we have one or more categories that carry forward the mistake: Category talk:American rhythm and blues singer-songwriters.

Please help me change the mistaken instances of "singer-songwriter" to "singer and songwriter" or something similar that makes sense in context. Binksternet (talk) 06:51, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Genre issue on GA nominated article
Hello. An editor and I have hit a stand still in an article related to this project regarding genre. Could some editors weight in on it here please? thank you! Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:44, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

TFAR notification
I've nominated a WP:FA article related to this project for WP:TFAR consideration as Today's Featured Article, please see discussion at Today's featured article/requests/Irreplaceable. — Cirt (talk) 20:40, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

FAR listing
I have nominated Selena for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.  Snuggums ( talk  /  edits ) 04:49, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I know nothing
I got an invitation to join this project, but I have no special knowledge. I do like this type of music and am intersested in helping in any way that I can, but I have no idea how to start. Think of me as a secretary. Give me something to do... Cliff (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Sade Adu listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Sade Adu to be moved to Sade. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:30, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Amber (performer) listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Amber (performer) to be moved to Amber (singer). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:32, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Amber (singer) listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Amber (singer) to be moved to Amber (singer). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 04:59, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Meghan Trainor
There has been some dispute as to whether or not Meghan Trainor should be included in the scope of this WikiProject. Feel free to comment here if you are interested. –Chase (talk / contribs) 07:54, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion regarding single artwork in song articles
This discussion is relevant to this WikiProject, and interested editors may wish to comment. Chase (talk | contributions) 14:50, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Concerns regarding FA quality
I've just tidied up The Long and Winding Road a little, and removed some unsourced trivia. The article doesn't appear to me as either FA or GA quality in terms of coverage, prose, and MoS requirements - it was promoted in 2004, and reviewed again in 2006, and hasn't been well maintained. I will not have the time to tidy up the article or take my concerns further, however it seems appropriate to raise those concerns rather than merely pass on by, so, per the stage one process at Featured article review I have left a note on the article talkpage, and am notifying relevant Projects. It is unlikely I will be getting involved further.  SilkTork  ✔Tea time  16:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

FLRC
I have nominated List of awards and nominations received by Alicia Keys for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Snuggums (talk / edits) 21:02, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Discussion regarding terminology of singles
I have started a discussion regarding how Wikipedia should define singles. Please go here to discuss.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   |  See what I have done  ) 19:04, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Draft:Michael Jackson & The Jacksons – Month To Month Recording Session Guide
Anyone interested in helping with Draft:Michael Jackson & The Jacksons – Month To Month Recording Session Guide? It was recently created by a very, very new editor and he could definitely use some help with this. It's written like a personal blog, is unsourced, and I'm worried that it might be considered too indiscriminate for Wikipedia, but I could maybe see the potential merit in having a recording guide to an artist's work. I'm going to post this in a few places looking for help. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  11:40, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

List of charted recordings from American Sound Studio
Hello, the current article American Sound Studio states "Between 1967 and 1971 approximately 120 hit songs were produced, and listed in the top 100 of Billboard, at the American Sound Studio. During one week span 25% of Billboards top 100 not only came from the same studio but featured the same band backing a variety of artists."

I propose to compile a list of these recordings for addition to the article, or for a new article. Would anyone like to help me? Specifically I can use help in compiling the data, and in formatting the list. I am thinking of a table format in chronological order, listing: Release date, Title, Artist, Chart# US, Chart# UK, other charts tba, Producer. Maybe add certification i.e. Gold?

Perhaps a lot of this data is in the reference books cited? I don't have these books. Thanks. Design (talk) 01:02, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

"International Lover"
I just started the article for "International Lover", the song that earned Prince his first Grammy nomination. There is a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Songs regarding my need for assistance in improving the article.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:24, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Auto-assessment of article classes
Following a recent discussion at WP:VPR, there is consensus for an opt-in bot task that automatically assesses the class of articles based on classes listed for other project templates on the same page. In other words, if WikiProject A has evaluated an article to be C-class and WikiProject B hasn't evaluated the article at all, such a bot task would automatically evaluate the article as C-class for WikiProject B.

If you think auto-assessment might benefit this project, consider discussing it with other members here. For more information or to request an auto-assessment run, please visit User:BU RoBOT/autoassess. This is a one-time message to alert projects with over 1,000 unassessed articles to this possibility. ~ RobTalk 01:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Wolf Krakowski
Would someone mind taking a look at Wolf Krakowski and assessing it. It's unsourced so it's not clear if he is notable per WP:MUSICBIO or even WP:GNG. Article was created back in 2004 (when the notability guidelines might have been a little laxer than they are now), so it's not eligible for WP:BLPPROD. I googled his name and got quite a few hits, but nothing looked like the significant coverage needed for GNG. Perhaps someone else knows where better sources might be found? Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

GAr
Like I'm Gonna Lose You, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. — Calvin999 07:55, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Proposed split of Michael Jackson double A-side article
The article about Michael Jackson's 1997 double A-side single HIStory/Ghosts has been proposed to be split into two separate articles, one for each song. Interested editors may discuss here. Chase (talk | contributions) 23:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Re: Sober (Selena Gomez song)
Project members are welcome to help determine the appropriateness of the article Sober (Selena Gomez song) at Talk:Sober (Selena Gomez song). Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:38, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

RfC about White House petition to make Party in the USA the national anthem
There is an ongoing Request for Comment about whether to include a petition started by Elijah Daniel in the article about him, which was a White House petition to make Party in the U.S.A. the national anthem.

You may comment, if you wish, at: Talk:Elijah_Daniel.

Sagecandor (talk) 18:49, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Janet Jackson (album)
Janet Jackson (album) is undergoing a GA reassessment. Most problems have been tackled, however, the article does not meet criteria 3a, as it does not address the main aspects of the topic - there is almost nothing about production of the album, and little about critical reception on release. The reassessment is on hold for seven days to allow time to build the article. SilkTork (talk) 02:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject
Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_R%26B_and_Soul_Music

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 18:20, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Please come and help...
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Do You Love Me (disambiguation), regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Your opinion and rationale are needed so a decision can be made. Thank you and Happy New Year to All!  Paine Ellsworth   put'r there  06:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Surprised at articles which remain untagged and unassessed ...
Discovered this morning to my great surprise that Dennis Edwards remained untagged for this WikiProject, as do members of the Pointer Sisters and Martha and the Vandellas. Have also put in a bot request for cleanup listings for this project.--Ziggyfan23 (talk) 15:35, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Charles Neville died today; sole one of The Neville Brothers without an article
See Talk page on above article. Currently Charles Neville (musician) simply redirects to The Neville Brothers. All the other Neville Brothers -- Aaron, Art, Cyril, and Ivan - have excellent articles; Charles, the horn player as Aaron called him today in a moving post, has not even a stub.

See Neville Brothers infobox as well as Category:The Neville Brothers members for links to 4 good articles to be mined for sources and used as models.

Hope this is done before closing day of Jazz Fest, which the brothers traditionally closed down with a huge show every year. Thank you! -- Paulscrawl (talk) 02:27, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Per advice at the Teahouse, I'm adding a link here for any competent music / biography editors to dive in:

Peace -- Paulscrawl (talk) 04:19, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. — The Transhumanist  07:52, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

I have been slash and burning
at List of doo-wop musicians, removing what I consider to not be doo-wop musicians, but would not mind having someone looking over my shoulder and offering a second opinion here and there. What I have removed, and some of what I intend to remove came be found on the talk page. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 05:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Please help investigate and edit if necessary
Hi. A request was made on 19 June at the help desk by someone who claims to have been a vocalist in the soul group The Hues Corporation. The person, Kenny James, is requesting the addition of his name to the article about the group. I conducted a light search for reliable sources that could corroborate the claims but I was unable to find any. I thought maybe you guys are more knowledgeable about finding sources of soul music and could help out with this case. Cheers! Thinker78 (talk) 23:34, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Discovering more untagged articles for the project
Syreeta Wright hadn't been tagged yet! Am adding a tool below, and on the assessment page, for tracking our progress. Ziggyfan23 (talk) 02:01, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Current article assessment statistics
As of, there are ' articles within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, of which ' are featured. This makes up % of the articles on Wikipedia and % of featured articles and lists. Including non-article pages, such as talk pages, redirects, categories, etcetera, there are  pages in the project. Ziggyfan23 (talk) 02:01, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Assessment progress since August 30, 2018
Ziggyfan23 (talk) 02:17, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

RfC re Here (Alicia Keys album)
There is an ongoing Requests for Comment (created 12 September 2018) about whether the critical reception section should be reduced. You may comment, if you wish, at: Talk:Here_(Alicia_Keys_album)

( Correct me if I'm wrong: aren't RfCs supposed to be made known in their relevant wiki project — as in, what is decided for one article can affect other articles in the project? Anyway, this RfC on the article's talk page was not posted here. Ergo .... ) Pyxis Solitary   yak  04:29, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Prince
Hello Wikipedia,

Having just read the whole of Prince's article on here, I felt compelled to sign up to Wikipedia and help to improve the article, as I feel Prince himself and, indeed, everybody who wants to learn more about him is deserving of a much higher quality article on Wikipedia for such an incredible musician and human being. I am writing here as I would like to greatly improve Prince's Wikipedia page, and to turn it into a top-notch article, and would welcome any help I can get in doing so. If you are reading this and wish to contribute to this noble goal, please do get in touch with me through my talk page--while I may be new to contributing to Wikipedia, I do strongly believe this is worth pursuing and would welcome the help of anybody who thinks the same way. Thank you. Pussycontrol (talk) 13:23, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

RfC on creating a "Cultural impact of Michael Jackson" article
Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Cultural impact of Michael Jackson. A permalink for it is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cultural_impact_of_Michael_Jackson&oldid=881410933#Should_this_page_and/or_a_%22Michael_Jackson_in_popular_culture%22_page_be_a_Wikipedia_article? here]. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 12:20, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussion of YouKnowIGotSoul.com on the reliable sources noticeboard
There is a discussion on the reliability of YouKnowIGotSoul.com on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you are interested, please participate at. —  Newslinger  talk   11:37, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Adele for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Adele is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Adele until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 02:40, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Brandy Norwood for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Brandy Norwood is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Brandy Norwood until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 02:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Amy Winehouse for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Amy Winehouse is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Amy Winehouse until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page.

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Selena for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Selena is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Selena until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 06:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Marvin Gaye for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Marvin Gaye is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Marvin Gaye until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 06:41, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Adele for deletion (2nd nomination)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Adele is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Adele (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 01:01, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

New Member Intro
Hi all. It's come to my attention that this page has been marked as semi-active and that some Wiki users who are marked as members may be retired. I'll be actively updating and adding information that I find on certain R&B & Soul articles/pages. I'm currently interested in Nathan East and Stevie Wonder, as well as some old classics like The Brothers Johnson and The Gap Band, however in the mean time I'll do my best to work on what's currently needed and of high importance. Please don't hesitate to say hi on my talk page! Thanks, Photogceb (talk) 22:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Requested move Lady A → [[Lady A (band)]]
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Lady A § Requested move 9 November 2020. This is a discussion about moving Lady A → Lady A (band) as per the WP:BANDDAB naming convention guideline & to disambiguate the band from Anita White AKA Lady A (singer). Peaceray (talk) 04:22, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies has an RFC
Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies has an RFC for a possible alternative format for singles discography tables. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Heartfox (talk) 01:25, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

GAR
Health and appearance of Michael Jackson has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.Quaffel (talk) 20:57, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Draft review request
I submitted Draft: DeVita (singer) about a week ago but it has not been reviewed yet. Can anyone review it? Thank you. 수행평가 (talk) 16:07, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

-   Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2022 May 6 § File:Diddy-DirtyMoney-HelloGoodMorning.JPEG
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2022 May 6 § File:Diddy-DirtyMoney-HelloGoodMorning.JPEG. Marchjuly (talk) 22:58, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Merger proposal notice
Opened a discussion about merging Pony (dance) into "Pony Time", please give it a look. Thanks! QuietHere (talk) 20:39, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

List of unreleased songs recorded by Michael Jackson
I have nominated List of unreleased songs recorded by Michael Jackson for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. >> Lil-unique1  (  talk  ) — 11:41, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Requested input on Talk:Janelle Monáe
There's a discussion on Talk:Janelle Monáe about whether to change Monáe's pronouns, in the article, to they/them (the pronouns currently used are she/her) and if Monáe's choice of pronoun order should impact the pronouns used in the biography article. Historyday01 (talk) 21:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Stereotype (Karl Wolf album) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Stereotype (Karl Wolf album) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Stereotype (Karl Wolf album) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:30, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Eternal Sunshine (album)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Eternal Sunshine (album) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject.   Elias 🌊    💬 "Will you call me?" 📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?" 23:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)


text: User talk:67.172.15.249

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:67.172.15.249


text:
User talk:Bakutaro~enwiki

Hello this is my talk page. Bakutaro 23:08, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC) - What ya want?

---

On User talk:WpZurp, you said: I'm confused why does 'the last few series' not make sense in the Barbara Eden article? She wasn't in just the last few episodes, and was in it a lot. I also am definitely sure she was in more than just 1 series. Bakutaro

 * Hmm, do you mean "series" or "seasons"? Sabrina, The Teenage Witch is a single "series" that consisted of several "seasons". In any case, I put in the fix. Hope you agree with my fix. WpZurp 20:12, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Leprechaun
Hi, I noticed you have some interest in Irish mythology, I'd like to get some input on the Leprechaun article, thanks :) - FrancisTyers 21:18, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Bakutaro. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Bakutaro~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

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Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 10:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bakutaro~enwiki


text:
Panayiotis Demetriou

Panayiotis Demetriou (Παναγιώτης Δημητρίου, born May 6, 1939) is a Cypriot politician and Member of the European Parliament for the European People's Party. He is a member of the Democratic Rally.

title: Panayiotis Demetriou


text:
Yiannakis Matsis

Yiannakis Matsis (born 24 October 1933) is a Greek Cypriot politician. He was a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the European People's Party from 14 June 2004 until June 2009. He did not stand for re-election in the 2009 European elections.

title: Yiannakis Matsis


text:
Talk:Data-flow diagram

Clean up
I started trying to clean up the article -- I think it was a rough translation from German.
 * Nope, this is just me trying to convey the information that i know is correct, but am not allowed to just copy and paste... Beta m (talk)

I think it's quite good, it just needs some examples that my school might be able to provide.(Contact Rossmoyne Senior High School in Perth Australia)

Sat Apr 30 23:40:07 BST 2011 : edit sjs205

Although in the context diagram the system is sometimes labelled as process 0, it is NEVER referred to as a Level 0 diagram. Subsequently, you "explode" from the context diagram into the level 0 diagram. Processes in a level 0 diagram will always have processes labelled with integers; process 1,2,3... A level 1 diagram would represent a single process contained within a level 0 diagram, and as such, if we were representing process 2 from the level 0 diagram we would label the processes in the level 1 diagram: 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.... Sjs205 (talk) 22:55, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Example might be needed
Maybe someone should give an example where some c code (or code in another language)can be transformed into a DFD

Add example for DFD

C Code is logical and can easily be converted to a logic flow. Data Flow is the movement of data between entities and the processes that are used to accomplish that. Think of each process as a black box. The inputs are the flows into the process and the outputs are the flows out of the process. Eventually the flows arrive at an entity (Person, Department, Customer, System, etc...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.136.254 (talk) 13:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed
Removed *Chapter from a book by Edward Yourdon Because it is a broken link.

Attempt to improve the page
I've attempted to start improving this page and work towards removing the clean-up tag. Any suggestions or additions would be much appreciated. Ranglin 06:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

some information about DFD Documentation should be useful, as in how to document, what is needed etc... Rey81 (talk) 19:06, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Merging
I think it is pretty obvious it should be merged with Data_Flow_Diagram. Lewispb 10:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll tag it. Melchoir 23:29, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. There's a lot I could write on this too... — Phil Welch (t) (c) 23:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Who's going to do the merging? If I can find some free time I'll have a go. TerrorBite 04:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Done. Albanaco 18:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

An article about a diagram without a diagram!
Can someone who knows the correct symbols etc. make a complete data flow diagram, including as many of the standard symbols as possible, and add it to the top, or near top of the article - it seems stupid to try to describe a diagram without an actual example to look at!--Wierdy1024 22:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I was planning to do that, but I'm a bit swamped with life right now. If no one beats me to it, I'll write up a DFD about Wikipedia, and post it to Wikipedia. — Philwelch t 02:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be awesome Philwelch, if you could squeeze out the time...Regards to all--The world salutes the Rising Star...Try to be One 14:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * A DFD of Wikipedia? Hoo-boy, "That way lies insanity!"  ;-)  But as a non-expert, knowledge-seeking passerby, I too notice the irony of an article about a diagram without a diagram.  Ditto for the Activity diagram stub that user 202.92.102.220 mentions below.  Fortunately, the references have some diagrams.
 * Kkken 11:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

123 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.226.62.46 (talk) 06:57, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Criticism of DFDs
Perhaps we should include a section on the problems/limitations of using DFDs for system analysis and design. A reference to use cases, activity diagrams as a better solution?

 * Good idea, if it could be kept brief, encyclopedic, and NPOV.  Like the pros/cons sections in the use cases article.  Bad idea if it just turns such a section (and this Talk page) into a Hyde Park of rhetoric and debate.  I've actually seen people get hot under the collar on subjects like DFDs.

 * Can you come back to write the problems/limitations section? I see from your contributions page and your Talk page that your IP Address has so many users, it's been blocked unless they each sign in as a member.
 * Kkken 11:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The DFD shown here isn't even close to how a DFD works. You're missing the primary purpose of the DFD, and that is to debug requirements.  I will check back and see if I can't help. jim4004  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jim4004 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

 * The purpose, and I would say the magic of a DFD, is that it allows an analyst to test their requirements during elicitation. It is unfortunate that it is being viewed as a systems tool.  It's probably one of the better process tools availalble.  It's unfortunate that the name leads people to think that it is meant to only show systems flow.  I have worked with DFD's for over 20 years.  I'd be happy to help with their limitations and otherwise.  I noticed that a Context DFD was omitted because it looked like an IPO chart.  That's what a context DFD looks like.—Jim4004  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jim4004 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Data flow diagram
Real time examples for the data flow diagram for "Top-down approach" and "Event partitioning

approach" will leads to understand the concept well. data flow diagram is useful when we make project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.74.114.139 (talk) 04:37, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Guido De Marco?
What does Guido De Marco, former President of Malta, have to do with structured programming techniques? Could this be a miss-attribution. There is a Thomas (Tom) De Marco, who is well known in data processing and wrote a book "Strurtured Analysis and System Specification", 1978, Yourdon Press. I think that's the De Marco related to this article.

I took a course at UC Berkeley circa 1982 that used his book as a text and it changed my whole outlook on systems development. Tom De Marco deserves a great deal of credit for 'raising the consciousness' of a whole generation of programmer/analysts.

So unless someone can document Guido's contributions to Computer Science, I would like to see this corrected...

Respectfully Yours,

FrejaDog (talk) 21:10, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I am sure you are right! I have removed some pretty obvious vandalism from the article on Guido de Marco (unless it was an honest misidentification), and also the photo of him in Data_flow_diagram. I am not sure how the Data_flow_diagram article should be updated to give credit to Tom de Marco - I am pretty sure he is not a coauthor of the book, and it looks like there might have been a photo of Tom de Marco at some point, but it was deleted because of fair use problems. Can you fix? Thanks. Jpaulm (talk) 00:07, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. I'm sure Guido is also pleased, as is my wife who is part Maltese.

Tom De Marco is the sole author of the the book I'm referring to. The ISBN is 0-13-854380-1. Some how Yourdon Inc has the copywrite but they didn't author the book. I presume that their involvement was financial.

"Structured Analysis and System Specification" by De Marco was published by Prentice Hall as part of their software series. I think that it was one of the earliest books to describe structured analysis using data flow diagrams. An interesting aspect of De Marco's approach is his emphasis on a recursive and iterative style; diagrams are to be drawn only in pencil, shared and discussed, to be used as vehicles of communication and to resist the temptation to treat them as static icons, and, most importantly,  a willingness to 'rip it up' and start over again. Later approaches, such as Yourdon's work, become, in my opinion, entirely too formal and technical, with too much emphasis on the methodology itself.

Most systems people are only familiar with the Yourdon work, and therefore rightly complain that Structured Analysis and Data Flow is too formal and cumbersome to be effectively used in the 'real' world.

Regards, FrejaDog (talk) 16:47, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I probably took the same course at UC Berkeley circa 1982! The textbook used was written by Tom De Marco.  The course literally changed my conceptual world and the way in which I worked!  Yourdon published their version of "Data Flow Diagramming" (Sarson and Gane) at a later date.  In my opinion, the Yourdon version was too formal and missed the key point, the informal and interative focus of the original work. It was a pretty obvious attempt by Yourdon Press to commercialize and differentiate "DFD" as a product.  The complexity, rigidity, and formality of the Yourdon product made it unpopular with management and developers.  Apparently, Yourdon's copyright, extended to cover the whole of DFD, effectively ended further open development of the technique.  Henceforth, DFD would be invariably referred to as 'Sarson and Gane' or 'Yourdon'... Yowoof (talk) 15:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

== Inconsistent Elements = I am working on developing some documentation for a system and hit this topic for pointers. One thing I noted is that the elements are defined with certain shapes at the start of the topic, but the shapes used in the actual diagram examples are inconsistent.

The text indicates that processes (functions) are depicted with circles and entities are depicted with rectangles - I believe this is accurate. The example diagrams have these reversed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsbradley (talk • contribs) 17:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Gane and Sarson
Should more information be given to the Gane and Sarson notation as well? 143.89.188.6 (talk) 13:00, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Data store redirection
I'm not convinced by the redirect of data store to this page (which then doesn't really define data store, even within the context of DFDs). Surely data store would be better served by a specific definition on its own page or else a redirect to database? Furrypop (talk) 14:39, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

New example diagram(s)

I agree we need an example, but the current image diagram isn't appropriate, (the lack of arrowheads is a dead givaway.)  Looking into the comments added above, I see what looks like wikipedia original artwork linked to an article named Event partitioning that looks like a good start. It's really a context diagram, and to really illustrate the point of a DFD well, we would should a level or two below that.

Burt Harris (talk) 04:44, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Wrong example- Mixing IFD examples in DFD article
The example in the first figure in the introduction is IFD (Information Flow Diagrams) and not DFD. It do not comply with the DFD definitions. It should be added to the IFD article, and be removed from here. The examples within the text are correct. The example by Burt Harris is a Level 0 DFD but is too complex to be a starting point. Ariek (talk) 09:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ariek (talk • contribs)

Agree completely with the author of this comment - the example at the top of the page is NOT a DFD. DFDs do not have lines connecting processes (yes, IFDs do). The DFD is concerned with showing where data flows from, and to, processes - not how processes are themselves connected. The figure should be replaced as it is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.140.120.178 (talk) 13:40, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

"dataflow", "data flow" or "data-flow"?
Should it be "dataflow", "data flow" or "data-flow"? This article currently uses all three forms.

"Modern Structured Analysis" (Prentice-Hall, 1989, ISBN 0-13-598632-X) by Edward Yourdon (father of this type of diagram?), and the Structured Analysis Wiki uses "dataflow", the first listed form.

--Mortense (talk) 14:08, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

 * The correct one should be "data flow diagram" based on McGraw Hill Textbook. FYI, data flow diagram is not like writing "use-case diagram" (using dash). Ivan Akira (talk) 11:24, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia lemmas are devided: dataflow programming and dataflow architecture vs. data flow diagram vs. data-flow analysis. Needless to say, the articles are all inconsistent in their spelling.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary lists only the contracted spelling: dataflow. The Dragon Book, in contrast, uses the hyphen in compounds (e.g., data-flow analysis). So does Steven Muchnick in "Advanced Compiler Design and Implementation", dropping the hyphen outside of compounds (e.g., "data flow is not control flow").

It seems that the programming and architecture communities use the contracted form (dataflow programming and dataflow architecture) whereas the compiler people use a hyphen in compounds and a space otherwise (data-flow analysis, data-flow diagram and data flow). Let's use this spelling consistently throughout the article. --EnOreg (talk) 11:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.getahead-direct.com/gwbadfd.htm. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Danger (talk) 15:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Physical Data Flow
It sound like this (and Logical Data Flow which redirects here) are simply poorly named categories of DFD. If there is any merit to this unreferenced article it should probably be merged. Derek Andrews (talk) 17:50, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Done! Three years later I don't think anyone will object. Triptothecottage (talk) 10:12, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 12:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

cryptographic data flow diagram

The block cipher article seems to be saying that ARX network diagrams used to illustrate block ciphers and hashes -- such as the one on the right -- are a kind of data flow diagram.

Is this type of diagram something that needs to be discussed in this "data flow diagram" article? Or is this type of diagram different enough that discussion needs to go into some other article (that may not yet exist) -- and if so, what is the name of that other article? --DavidCary (talk) 03:18, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

complete redo
Hi all, I completely redid the DFD — Preceding unsigned comment added by Svejdam (talk • contribs) 22:30, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Terminology and sources
The terminology used in this article would need to be sourced, or aligned with known sources, since it seems not to correspond to the common terminology of DFD:

 * Warehouse: is called "files" by Yourdon/DeMarco, and "data store" by Gane & Sarson
 * Terminator: is called "source or sink" by Yourdon/DeMarco, "external entities" as well as "source or destination" by Gane & Sarson

Some other terms would benefit from being related (e.g. contextual diagram and zero level diagram

In at least one case sourcing is misleading: a sentence is sourced with an article of 1975, but contains some claim about UML, which dates from the 90s.

India Education Program course assignment
This article was the subject of an educational assignment at College Of Engineering Pune supported by Wikipedia Ambassadors through the India Education Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

The above message was substituted from by PrimeBOT (talk) on 19:57, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Data-flow diagram


text:
Robert Pearsall Smith

Robert Pearsall Smith (1827–1898) was a lay leader in the Holiness movement in the United States and the Higher Life movement in Great Britain. His book Holiness Through Faith (1870) is one of the foundational works of the Holiness movement. He was also a businessman in the Philadelphia area, publishing maps and managing a glass factory.

Early life
Robert Pearsall Smith was the son of John Jay Smith and Rachel Pearsall. Descended from long line of influential Quakers, in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, he was a descendant of John Smith, who started one of the first insurance companies in Philadelphia and was one of the founders of the Philadelphia Hospital. He was also a descendant of James Logan, secretary of William Penn and the founder of the first lending library in America, the Loganian Library.

During the 1840s, Robert's father was the librarian of the Philadelphia Library Company, which now had oversight of their ancestral library, the Loganian. The library employed the prestigious architect and surveyor James Charles Sidney who also produced maps that Robert published; many are now valuable historical artifacts.

In 1851, Smith married Hannah Tatum Whitall, a woman who also descended from a line of prominent Quakers in the region. The Smiths settled in Germantown, Pennsylvania. From 1864 to 1868, they lived in Millville, New Jersey where Robert managed Hannah's father's business, the Whitall, Tatum & Company glass factories.

They were much influenced by Methodist revivalists and adopted the doctrine in Wesleyan theology of sanctification. They were also influenced by William E. Boardman, who wrote The Higher Christian Life (1859) who apparently groomed Robert and Hannah Smith to join the Holiness movement as speakers.

Success and Scandal
In the 1870s, American evangelists such as Dwight L. Moody and Ira D. Sankey drew huge crowds in London. In 1873, Robert and Hannah also crossed the Atlantic to speak at various places in England, including Oxford, teaching on the subjects of the "higher life" and "holiness". The following year, after preaching in front of royalty and taking breakfast with Gladstone they travelled to Germany and Switzerland, where they preached in several major cities.

In 1875, they returned to England and conducted meetings in Brighton where scandal arose over a private spiritual initiation which took place between Smith and a female American writer who alleged contact of a sexual nature. Although admitting that he "had put his arm around her", he insisted that his actions would not "have been more pure to my own daughter". However, at the evangelical tribunal that followed, Smith pledged "to abstain at once from public work". Although the details of the allegations were never released, one member stating he feared the effect on public morality, Smith never recovered and having "lost his faith, withdrew from public gaze and spent most of the rest of his life as an invalid".

In 1888, the Smith family moved to north Sussex, England when their daughter Mary married an Irish barrister, Frank Costelloe; she later married Bernard Berenson. Their daughter Alys Pearsall Smith met and married the philosopher Bertrand Russell. Their son, Logan Pearsall Smith, became an essayist and critic.

title: Robert Pearsall Smith


text:
User talk:Danielle0386

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! dbenbenn | talk 23:13, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
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title: User talk:Danielle0386


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Geography of Canada/archive1

Geography of Canada
I am nominating this article because I believe it is well written, and is one of the more exemplory articles on Wikipedia. --Spinboy 23:13, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Um, do you realize that this is for featured article status and not for the collaboration of the week? If yes, then I will have to oppose as this article is not yet ready for even an average article yet. (At least get rid of the "Unorganized Content" sub-header. Earl Andrew 23:42, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Object, for the following reasons:
 * No references.
 * Figures that are subject to change are undated (Human geography).
 * Weird, empty "See also" section.
 * "Geography - note: During the Cold War Canada had a strategic location between Russia and US via the north polar route." Ummm, as far as I know did the tectonic forces of the Earth not move Canada to a different location since the end of the Cold War.
 * Wikilinks in section headers are a no-no.
 * (This might just be me being unfamiliar with geographic articles, but) I find it strange to see a list of treaties in an geography article. Treaties are signed by a political entity (i.e. the government), not by the rocks, lakes and sand of a country.
 * A section called "Unorganized Content" in a Featured Article? I think not.
 * --Plek 23:46, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Object This is a good start for an article.  Fill it full of information, organize it, and then resubmit it. -Jun-Dai 00:26, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Object - It just ain't ready yet. -Lommer | talk 00:44, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Object, with the same objections as the others. Also: no pictures. Go to Peer review first. Jeronimo 07:28, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Object Lacking both in content (the sections, while linking to theorically more complete articles, need to be develloped, what about the Badlands, what about the Torngat Mountains?) and organisation (Natural ressource includes lots of economic material). I must say there has been much improvement since being CCOTW, though. --Circeus 03:01, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:History of the Balkans

Cleanup
I was about to cleanup the article, but was stopped. There are clear problem tags at the top. This article is not suited for intricate detail — summarization of content is needed. any comment?--Z oupan 15:07, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

 * I think it's a good idea but given that it's a sensitive area, I'd recommend outlining what you plan to do and check that people agree. Jeppiz (talk) 15:10, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Cleanup. Summarize. Clear overview sections. Add actual sources and references. There are countless links in See also for those wanting detail [not suitable here].--Z oupan 15:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Additionally, the grammar needs a lot of attention.104.169.29.171 (talk) 19:34, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned references in History of the Balkans
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of History of the Balkans's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "EarlyMedievalBalkans": From First Bulgarian Empire:  From Simeon I of Bulgaria:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 14:18, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 27 December 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus that the term "Southeastern Europe" is not widely used for the region discussed in the article; it was also observed that even when "Southeastern Europe" is used, it tends to have a different geographic scope than "the Balkans". (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:39, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

History of the Balkans → History of Southeastern Europe – I do not see the clear scope of the article, and being titled as "History of the Balkans" neither the poor definition in the very short lead as "The Balkans and parts of this area are alternatively situated in Southeastern, Southern, Eastern Europe and Central Europe. The distinct identity and fragmentation of the Balkans owes much to its common and often turbulent history regarding centuries of Ottoman conquest and to its very mountainous geography.[1][2]". As first, the term "Balkans" is ill-defined and controversial confusing term which is steadily being replaced by more accurate and acceptable term Southeast Europe/Southeastern Europe hence on Wikipedia we should not promote the term Balkans more than needed. As second, there's no distinct identity, fragmentation is part of a much wider political and sociological context studied by Balkan studies/Balkanology (which is mostly popular in Eastern Balkans and also called as South-East European Studies). As third, current article is heavily overlapping with Prehistory of Southeastern Europe hence with additional medieval and modern history this article is literally "History of Southeastern Europe". Perhaps in the current article something about the idea of the Balkans etc. can be added in the modern history sections (and lead as "The history of Southeastern Europe, or the Balkans, ...", but the whole scope and title should not mention the Balkans per se. As fourth, there is no article History of West Europe, History of Central Europe (just a redirect to Central Europe), History of East Europe, History of South Europe etc., so it is confusing there's one for Southeastern Europe and even more named as the "Balkans". Miki Filigranski (talk) 18:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 23:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Not really an improvement. "Balkans" is sufficiently recognizable, even if imprecise.  "Southeastern Europe" is less common and has a different range, e.g. is Ukraine part of "Southeastern Europe"? I haven't really seen the term used outside of prehistoric studies (where it has a different geographic meaning, e.g. it definitely spills over into Ukraine, which is part of Cucuteni-Tripolye, but also normally excludes Illyria, which follows the Cardial pottery route rather than the Linear pottery route). I would prefer trimming some of the prehistoric content of this article down a bit, but keeping the current title of the article as is.  Walrasiad (talk) 10:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ukraine has nothing to do with the Balkans and Southeastern Europe and there's no point of using as an example prehistoric cultures which aren't following modern divisions of Europe. The Balkans could be sufficiently recognizable but not its meaning because there is no one definition of the Balkans.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 11:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You're the one who brought prehistoric history up. That's the only place I've seen the term "Southeastern Europe" used with any frequency. I agree it doesn't coincide with the Balkans. That's why this page (which is not merely about prehistoric Balkans) needs to remain at the current title.  Walrasiad (talk) 17:40, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No, the article Prehistory of Southeastern Europe was brought because of the title (the content is secondary). And no, Southeastern Europe is often used in scientific literature regarding ancient, medieval and other periods (e.g. Florin Curta's book Southeastern Europe in the Middle Ages which is widely quoted here on Wikipedia). I don't understand your reasoning, that's the issue with the term Balkans - it is a seriously ill-defined term, made up to include basically everything needed from an ideological and political viewpoint, usually based on 19th century. It does NOT coincide with geographic criteria for a peninsula neither has only geographic meaning such as Southeastern Europe.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 17:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The issue is that 'Southeastern Europe' in a purely geographical sense does not line up with 'Balkans'—blindlynx 14:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No. Balkans are integral-central-big subset of Southeastern Europe - it IS the same - yet it doesn't include parts of Southeastern Europe important to the understanding of history from prehistoric to modern times and politics of the whole region including the Balkans (like Hungary). Balkans don't line up geographically with anything, it is ill-defined, limited, outdated anthropological-cultural-political misconception about the "Balkan" people/countries from the 19th century, influenced by various viewpoints on Ottoman held territories and (Greater) Serbian academia. --Miki Filigranski (talk) 16:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose When people hear "The Balkans" they know where that is on a map. I've never heard anyone refer to that region as Southeastern Europe or remember reading it in a book or peer reviewed paper. I think the problem is in part that there's more then just geography at play.  Dr vulpes  (Talk) 01:27, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * They don't, Balkans is ill-defined term. It is unbelievable that someone didn't hear or read the term Sourtheastern Europe by 2024. Wikipedia has articles titled Southeast Europe and starting with Southeastern European. Romanian historian Florin Curta's Southeastern Europe in the Middle Ages, 500–1250 is widely cited on English Wikipedia, as are other books using such terminology in the title and text. Google Books search (Southeastern Europe has 42.800.000; Southeast Europe 7.850.000; Balkans only 5.340.000 results). Scientific peer-review journal published by Brill among others, and much more can be found through most simple and fast Google search.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 12:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * oppose Without evidence that 'Southeast Europe' is more recognizable or commonly used than 'Balkans' this is not an improvement—blindlynx 02:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It isn't only about the recognizability or common use - it is about quality, style and language. With the Wikipedia promoting such a term like the Balkans there's won't be much improvement as well.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 12:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * You haven't presented evidence for that either, Either way it is WP:RGW unless 'south east europe' is recognizable or commonly used—blindlynx 13:25, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See comment above for more details and evidence/claim can be found in the article of the Balkans and Southeast Europe themselves. Considering all the opposing comments by now, which are showing a significant lack of knowledge and understanding of the topic as if didn't even read the related articles the Balkans and Southeast Europe, am coming to the conclusion that editors without proper knowledge and understanding of the topic shouldn't even give a vote. Otherwise this request move is becoming meaningless.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 13:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Neither of the two sources used for this claim in either article support this claim in full.
 * Bideleux and Jeffries say:
 * Some writers on the Balkan Peninsula claim that ‘the “politically correct” term Southeastern Europe has more or less replaced the Balkans, because it has become impossible to define a country as “Balkan” without having to explain oneself (Goldsworthy 2002: 34). Other specialists on the region argue that the overarching transformation in the region since the end of Ottoman rule has been the (re)conversion of ‘the Balkans’ into ‘South-eastern Europe’ (Todorova 1997; Lampe 2006). The major problem with such views is that the expression ‘South-eastern Europe’ refers to a much larger area which nearly always also includes Turkey, Cyprus and Moldova and perhaps ought also to include Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan, which also have strong (albeit variously contested) claims to be considered part of Europe. If (as we believe) these countries can be included in a ‘Greater Europe’ defined in functional and empirical terms, rather than on the basis of outmoded cultural, religious or racial prejudices and preconceptions, then they are manifestly located in the south-eastern part of it! We therefore continue to refer to the Balkan Peninsula as ‘the Balkans’ because that remains the name which most immediately and precisely indicates to most people the region under discussion.
 * and Altic ultimately concludes that both are problematic and begrudgingly settles on Croatia being in the 'western Balkans' —blindlynx 14:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It is kind-off explained alright. Anyway, thanks for trying to understand & citation. People still have significant misunderstanding of these two terms. I guess it is needed much longer discussion between editors who are more informed about the topic or willing like you to understand it.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 17:02, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah i think the first step is expanding Southeast_Europe and Balkans to better reflect the sources particularly Altić (i was struggling a bit with the Croatian so i'm not comfortable citing it but it has a detailed account of the challenges and benefits of both terms)—blindlynx 19:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/103699 sorry forgot to share this —blindlynx 19:52, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also read "https://journals.openedition.org/balkanologie/741" and "https://journals.openedition.org/balkanologie/745" (1999), and "https://www.berghahnbooks.com/downloads/OpenAccess/MishkovaEuropean/MishkovaEuropean_07.pdf" (2017) for beginning, and then other literature and so on showing the popularization of the term (of course checking Google Books). Southeastern Europe is a better term geographically/conceptually, while the Balkans for some specific cultural aspects/studies or as narrow subset term for Western and Eastern Balkans division. With the term Southeastern Europe is more emphasized heterogenous culture, languages and else of people/countries. Meanwhile with the Balkans a more homogenous/common culture, languages and else of people/countries, but the issue is that is based on outdated 19th century perspectives and narratives because of which the objective value of "Balkanocentrism" and "Balkanism" is highly disputable.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also check things like this "Mapping Balkan – Southeast European studies", while for Western Balkans check in English "The meaning of the Western Balkans concept for the EU: genuine inclusion or polite exclusion?".--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The Routledge Handbook of Balkan and Southeast European History (2021) - a region that was previously known as the Balkans but is now better known as Southeastern Europe.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * i'll take a look, thank you—blindlynx 21:59, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Oppose the scope of the article is clearly defined. Again I see no evidence of "Balkans" being replaced by "Southeastern Europe" or of the term being controverisal or ill-defined. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 11:19, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It doesn't because the Balkans are not clearly defined, and conceptually Southeastern Europe has a better/wider meaning, with the Balkans being only a subset or subsets (depending on the definition) of the Southeastern Europe. This information can be literally found in the article Balkans and Southeast Europe. It is common knowledge. It is utterly pointless getting opinions without prior making a minimal effort to read and understand the topic in question.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 12:04, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * You're the only here expressing opinions. I still see no evidence from English-language academic literature of the points you argue. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 13:01, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Omg... I give up. Commentary by editors as if are "living under a rock", without basic common knowledge and info available in the related articles as well as three clicks away (including your Romanian Florin Curta; and "Definitional Dilemmas: Southeastern Europe as 'Culture Area'?" among many other acaddemic liteature, EU and other organizations using, discussing, replacing it), this became utterly pointless. It is so stupid it cannot be more stupid. --Miki Filigranski (talk) 13:40, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

title: Talk:History of the Balkans


text:
Agioi Anargyroi

Agioi Anargyroi (Άγιοι Ανάργυροι) is a suburban town in the north-central part of the Athens agglomeration, Greece. It takes its name from the "Holy Unmercenaries": saints who received no payment for their medical services. Since the 2011 local government reform it is part of the municipality Agioi Anargyroi-Kamatero, of which it is the seat and a municipal unit.

Geography

Agioi Anargyroi is located 5 km north of Athens city centre. The municipal unit has an area of 3.200 km2. Its built-up area is continuous with that of municipality of Athens and the neighbouring suburbs Peristeri, Ilion, Kamatero, Acharnes, Nea Filadelfeia and Nea Chalkidona. Motorway 1 (Athens–Thessaloniki) passes east of the town. Agioi Anargyroi has a station on the Athens–Thessaloniki railway. The old metric Piraeus–Patras railway passes through the town as well.

International relations
Agioi Anargyroi is twinned with:

 * 🇵🇱 Opole, Poland

title: Agioi Anargyroi


text:
Kyriacos Triantaphyllides

Kyriacos Triantaphyllides (born 3 September 1944, Palaichori) is a Cypriot politician and Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the Progressive Party of Working People, sitting with the European United Left–Nordic Green Left group, on the European Parliament's Committee on Regional Development.

He is member of the Committee on Regional Development, for the Delegation for relations with Australia and New Zealand and also for the Delegation to the Euro-Mediterranean Parliamentary Assembly

He is a substitute for the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs, substitute for the Delegation to the EU-Turkey Joint Parliamentary Committee.

Education

 * 1964-1966: Bachelor of Arts (BA) (University of Victoria, Wellington, New Zealand)
 * 1967: Diploma from teacher training college of Christchurch (New Zealand)

Career

 * 1968-1970: Teacher of English and Social Studies at Wanganui High School (New Zealand).
 * 1971-1973: Ministry of Employment and Social Affairs – Industrial Relations, Section Cyprus.
 * 1974-1982: Head of Personnel with the Cyprus Amaniandos Asbestos Works Limited.
 * 1982-1992: Senior public administration and personnel officer.
 * 1992-1996: Chief administrative officer.
 * 1992-2000: Deputy migration officer.
 * 2000-2004: Director-General in the Ministry of the Interior.
 * 1996-2000: Sub-Prefect of Famagusta.
 * from 1990: Representative of Cyprus on Council of Europe committees.
 * 2003: Member of the Policy Committee of the Council of European Municipalities and Regions.
 * 1996-2000: Member of the Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe.
 * Ministry of the Interior representative in meetings and conferences at international level.
 * 1988-2004: Founder member of Palaichori local associations.

title: Kyriacos Triantaphyllides


text:
Adamos Adamou

Adamos Adamou (born 30 October 1950) is a Cypriot politician and former Member of the European Parliament (MEP) for the Progressive Party of Working People, sitting with the European United Left–Nordic Green Left group from 2004 to 2009. He sat on the European Parliament's Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety. He did not stand for reelection in the 2009 European elections.

Adamou was deputy director of Pathological Oncology Clinic.

Biography
He is the Chairman of the Delegations for relations between EU with the Palestinian Legislative Council. As a chairman, he is a member of the Conference of Delegation Chairmen. Became (Dec 2009) Patron of The Friends' Hospice Paphos, a charitable organisation established in 2006, attached to the Evangelismos hospital in Paphos, Cyprus.

He is also a substitute of the Committee on Culture and Education and of the Delegation to the EU-Chile Joint Parliamentary Committee.

Education

 * 1976: Graduate in medicine (Athens)
 * 2001: specialised in pathology (1982) and pathological oncology

Career

 * 1976–79: Doctor with the Hellenic Anticancer Society
 * 1979–84: Specialist doctor and pathologist at Pathology Clinic I of the Hellenic Red Cross Hospital
 * 1984–85: Lecturer and deputy director of Pathological Oncology Clinic I of the Agioi Anargyroi Hospital (Athens)
 * 1988–98: Deputy director of the Clinical Oncology Department of Nicosia General Hospital
 * from 2004: Consultant Oncologist at the Bank of Cyprus Oncology Centre (1998–2003) and at the Medical 'Prevention' Centre
 * from 2003: ΑΚΕL-Left – New Powers Member
 * Member of the parliamentary Health, Environmental, European Affairs and Audit Committees
 * from 1998: Representative of Cyprus in the European Society for Medical Oncology (ESMO)
 * Member of the Cyprus Medical Association and chairman of its Bioethics Committee
 * Member of the Cyprus Anticancer Association and chairman of its information committee
 * Chairman of the Scientific Committee of the Karaiskakio Foundation
 * Honourable mention from the Hellenic Breast Cancer Research Society
 * Honourable mention and plaque from the Hellenic Psychosocial Oncology Society

title: Adamos Adamou