text:
Talk:Milo (drink)

Seriously? Water
Okay, I'm sure some people must have it with water (the lactose-intolerant?). But how many? Is it a big thing in SE Asia maybe??

 * As an Asian-American who grew up drinking Milo in the United States, Texas, I have usually made it with hot water since the mixture already having evaporated milk in it makes it decently creamy with just water and since I drink it often (almost daily, in fact, I love the stuff), not having extra milk keeps the levels of sugar and animal-products in my diet under control. Also because it's slightly more convenient to use the hot water spout from the sink than heating up milk. If I feel like having it creamier, I might just add some half and half, whipped cream, marshmallows, or extra Milo powder. But overall, it's more or less just my family's hot chocolate mix, and I like to make mine with water. 136.50.55.195 (Talk) 18:25, 22 January 2021

 * In Scouting in Australia (and presumably in other youth groups), when making a large cooking pot (say, larger than four litre volume), hot water is mixed with the Milo powder, then later, cold milk is added. This improves the consistency (reduces the chances of sludge), as well as more to go around (cost/economy).   Youth members would then scoop in their cups, or it would be ladled out from the pot to the cup.  I am not sure how others do it, but assertions that Milo is only served with milk or hot milk is not an exclusive statement.  (Some people identified by an IP address alone keep trying to change the line. Q8682 (talk) 14:02, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Many people seem to consider it is milk added to Milo as an exclusive action; and as likely to be resolved as whether you add milk first to tea, or after the tea is poured. It may be a geographic issue, and different in North Queensland, South Australia, or the North Isle of New Zealand; or generational.  As this is a social preference, there will be no single authoritative source.  We all have our personal preferences (and even no liquid; or milk with ice cubes).  However:
 * WikiHow – Heat 12 ounces of water. Milo does not dissolve well in cold milk so most Milo preparations begin with hot water. You can either boil water in a kettle, or heat it in a microwave-safe container for 1-2 minutes, until it just begins to steam.
 * Kuala Lumpur Time-out – Instead of hot water, pour cold fresh milk over Milo powder to produce a glass of milky Milo with chunky bits of chocolatey satisfaction.
 * Q8682 (talk) 10:31, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Confirmed with Malaysian friends. They usually drink it as a hot water and Milo drink, may be a dash of milk.  If you also see the food tin label, the 'average composition per serving 30 g' is a ratio with the pure 100 g mix, i.e. it is mixed with hot water, and there is no adjustment for full milk or skim milk.  Compare this to the Australian nutritional label, where the serving nutritional value is distinguished when including 200 mL of skim milk or 200 mL of reduced fat milk.  Therefore at least one country consumes milo with hot water, another may use milk.  And from personal experience with camps involving 40+ youth, in northern Australia, we make it with hot water, then add cold milk. – Q8682 (talk) 12:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Marketing and Manufacturing
Really enjoyed this article's details, but can't make sense of the sentence "The evaporatioking them and changing the taste and texture of the product." Cheers

A large amount of malt extract (malt is the grain itself) is made for the food industry, and not just Milo. It is either vacuum dried to 10% water and sold in drums, or spray dried in a heated flu to become a powder. Canterbury Foods (Lion Nathan), Joe White (AWB), and Coopers (SA) manufacture most of the extract. I suspect Milo would buy extract from these suppliers, and then do their own roasting to the desired color and clumping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.245.201 (talk) 23:58, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Milo Dinosaur
Haha, I laughed when Milo Dinosaur linked to Dinosaur... Venny85 (talk) 15:34, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

If you buy Milo in SE Asia, Milo is made in Malaysia. I also recently bought some milo in the Middle East, made in Syria (according to the label). Both have different tastes to the Australian Milo, especially the Syrian made Milo which is very sweet. Comparing the two side by side, it's obviously a different product, the Syrian milo having white/clear particles that look very much like sugar. In addition the Milo is a different colour.

[New author] Milo is also manufactured in Kenya by Nestle, and retains a taste that is similar to the Australian product. Kenyan Milo is widely available in the UK.

--Treebo 15:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC): Milo is also manufactured and sold in Sri Lanka.

I know some places have Milo McFlurries, at least Australia and I think South Africa. Can anyone expand upon this? [New author] In Colombia there was a limited edition McFlurry made with "Milo Nuggets" which is a very popular snack made with hard chunks of Milo, covered with chocolate.

On a side note, I have Milo from Ghana and from New Zealand (Australia on the label), and they're not alike at all. Ghana's is very coarse and crunchy, while New Zealand's is closer to a fluffy powder, redder in color, and noticeably sweeter with a slightly different flavor. Ghana's makes that nice crunchy topping on milk, but New Zealand's is so full of air it's practically hydrophobic and won't mix in cold at all.

--midorigin 05:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

A few years ago (2001 actually) I used to make cold Milo all the time (in New Zealand) a glass of milk with a goot heaped spoonful of Milo. However one day I opened a new can and did this, only to be shocked to watch all my Milo disolve - instead of the crunchy-topped chocolate-tainted milk I was expecting, I got a chocolate milk. I rang the 0800 number on the can and was informed that Milo has recently ceased to be made in New Zealand, and the can I had was manufactured in Australia. While it tasted the same, it was a finer powder than the formally NZ-made stuff. I was dissapointed. I believe it has become a little grainer again since then.

This bears no relevance to the encyclopedic value of this entry, I just felt like mentioning it.

However, I was curious about this - if anyone has knowledge... In most local Asian supermarkets here you can buy 250mL cans of Milo - they are a sweet watery Milo mixture which is surprisingly nice cold (I've never tried it hot). I believe they come from Malaysia. Anyone know more? Are they popular? --Sycophant 08:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Milo outside of Asia
It is basically impossible to find Milo anywhere in North America. I have only ONCE seen milo for sale in an import store. It was only in a very small can (Malaysian origin) and was pretty expensive in comparison to actually buying it in Malaysia. To me, Milo has a slightly similar taste to Carnation Instant Breakfast (Nestle made) and Nesquik (again, Nestle).

I live in Colorado and Milo is sold at the local Safeway and City Market in the Mexican Food section. They have cans of pre-mixed which are marked as energy drinks and cans of powder. --David C.

I live in Vancouver, Canada. Plenty of Malaysian and Jamaican-made Milo in supermarkets. Both Asian and common supermarkets (though I have to say the Asian stores have better pricing... a Malaysian-made tin of 500g goes for about $3.99 CDN). --Eric L.

I live in Central Texas. I usually buy it at Asian stores or on Amazon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.50.55.195 (talk) 18:54, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

I think it was Tesco that imports a lot of Australian stuff into their stores, things like TimTams and Shapes, I can't remember if Milo was one of them. Shame they never imported Cherry Ripe, that is one of my favourite chocolate yum yum bars JayKeaton 14:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Milo is widely available and used in the Caribbean including the Bahamas. The product is manufactured in Malaysia and imported by Nestle Caribbean with offices in Trinidad and Jamaica. The product is sold in the ubiquitous 500 g metal tin, as well as in 200 g and 400 g refill packets. At one time individual serving packets were available but I haven't seen them in a couple of years. BHSEdit4BHS (talk) 01:21, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Pronunciation of the word "Milo"
I'm interested in hearing how everyone pronounces Milo. As an American-English speaker I'm inclined to use the sound "my" as in "my foot," but most people I've heard in Ghana pronounce it with a "me" as in "me too."

-- midorigin 06:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

In New Zealand I've never ever heard the first pronounciation. Lisiate 04:36, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Personally I pronounce it the same: "My-Low" --211.28.114.3 09:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

In Australia it is always pronounced me-low, as per a couple of other comments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.183.202.117 (talk) 12:24, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Portuguese influence in Ghana would lead to I being pronounced in the more Latin tongue of 'mi' and not 'my'. In Australia, if you called it anything other than 'me-low' you'd get some seriously strange looks. :P 211.30.71.59 11:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Malay-speaking people would normally pronounce the word as "Mee-low" as well, as that's how Milo would sound as a Malay word. Some would even drag the pronunciation to "May-low". 219.74.164.34 (talk) 07:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC) singapotter

 * In Malaysia they usually say "Mee-Low" except if they work with tourists when they say "My-Low". As a German my pronunciation would be closer to the Malay version. (also since Nestle is a French Swiss company I assumed the pronunciation would be more French and less English. I didn't know about. the Australian history of it) On the other hand we have no Milo in Germany.

60.50.22.107 (talk) 03:30, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I've lived in New Zealand and Malaysia. In New Zealand, it's "my-lo". In Malaysia, it's "mee-lo".

Who are these Australians who think it's pronounced "Mee-low" here?! It's always been "My-low". Here's a 1988 TV ad that clearly states the pronunciation in the jingle. Pureriviera (talk) 04:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Milo is Australian. It has always been pronounced "My-Low", as demonstrated by the advertisement above. It is IRRELEVANT how it is pronounced in other countries. STOP VANDALISING THE ARTICLE. MiloIsAustralian (talk) 12:42, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Milo and Yoghurt
I sometimes eat milo one top of chocolate yoghurt or mousse. How much people do it?

 * Eewww. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:45, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I love Milo on Farmer's Union Greek-style yoghurt (sort of like natural yoghurt, for those outside South Australia). DavidMRoberts (talk) 07:26, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Other Milo products
Maybe there should be a section on the other Milo products, eg cereal, chocolate bar, ice cream, etc, available. I would do it, but I'm a bit a wiki-novice and don't want to screw anything up. Thanks, --Colourblind 03:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Condensed Milk variation
when the article mentions 'milk', i presume it's normal milk and not condensed milk? in Singapore at least, mixing it with condensed milk is quite the norm; maybe the article could reflect this. Chensiyuan 03:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Fine
This chocolate drink intruiges me. I wish i could get a box of it. Although we have chocolate milk in Serbia. RocketMaster (talk) 15:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Malaysians drink the most Milo
Hi, this newspaper article (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/2/24/nation/3333128&sec=nation) claims that Malaysians drink the most Milo. I would put this in, but I don't know how to do the references.

"Tak Kieu"??
"One can order Milo in Singapore or Malaysia's Kopi tiams by placing an order for "Tak Kieu" ("Kick ball" in Hokkien), referring to the fact that the company has been sponsoring soccer events in the region, especially in Singapore, and has been using pictures showing soccer players." I personally have never heard in Malaysia that you can order Milo by saying "tak kieu". I'm going to remove it as it sounds like someone posted it as a joke. If anyone can verify this, accept my apologies and revert the edit.Senaiboy (talk) 12:15, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Milo in Colombia
Although several chocolate drinks are marketed in Colombia, I seriously doubt that Milo will ever be displaced from the #1 spot. It's the most traditional chocolate drink in this country (and the best, in my opinion). It's pronounced like "me" instead of "my". Alvabass (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Energy Content
This is one of the most ridicculous things i've ever read: "The high calorie content means Milo can be useful for preventing weight loss." While being factually correct this phrase tries to turn the potentially unhealthy high sugar content into something good. The solution for a problem that doesn't exist in reality 77.11.216.120 (talk) 07:12, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Addictive?
The article quotes a source that Milo contains theobromine, and addictive substance. Read the reference. It is for the Nigerian brand made from cocoa. Does malted barley contain this substance? Is it really addictive? Was this bit added by an Ovaltiner? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.245.201 (talk) 23:49, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

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Milo in Colombia
I suggest Colombia be added to Milo's main markets, it's a really popular drink in Colombia and there are loads of derivative products.

Milo biscuits: http://www.corporativa.nestle.com.co/brands/galletas/milosandwich

Milo chocolate bar: http://www.corporativa.nestle.com.co/media/pressreleases/2009_milochocoabrra

Milo nuggets: http://www.exito.com/products/0000490661744556/Milo+Nuggets

Milo cereal: http://www.corporativa.nestle.com.co/brands/cerealesdesayuno/MILO

Milo tetra pak: http://www.portafolio.co/negocios/empresas/milo-llega-loncheras-35124

Milo special edition w/James Rodriguez on it: http://www.exito.com/images/products/154/0001904632463154/0001904633151202_lrg_a.jpg

And so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougwash (talk • contribs) 17:54, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

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Name origin noting
The company indicates the name Milo comes from Milo of Croton:

 * MILO® is named after Milo of Croton, a Greek wrestler who lived in the 6th Century BC and possessed legendary strength.

The 1994 news article/advert says Milon:

 * The name Milo comes from a character in Greek mythology, Milon, who was a champion athlete famous for his strength. The name was adopted because the aim of the drink was to build a strong, healthy body and give energy, Mr Mayne said.

So far I cannot substantiate one way or the other the suggestion by then-South African company 'House of Louis':

 * 1933 – The Louis business imports an assortment of tea leaves from Ceylon plantations. When selecting a name for the brand of teas, Michel’s first two letters of his name are chosen – MI – and the first two letters of his surname – LO. The tea business 'MILO' was thus established, and later purchased by Nestlé for their well-known hot chocolate malt drink.

The name Milo as a correspondent about wrestling was already known in Australia at the time (per Trove), and Nestlé's connections in South Africa in 1933/4 are unknown.

The product had been developed by MAYNE over four years. Was the company just securing a trademark or brand name prior to release in October 1934? Would an Australian-based business producing a product for within Australia, do a global search to determine if the name was in commercial registration or circulation elsewhere?

Other than Milo cattle station in southern Queensland, based on Trove searches, it does not appear Milo tea was a known product in Australia in the 1930s.

If someone wishes to chase this up, feel free! –Q8682 (talk) 05:21, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Just to clarify: Can someone confirm if the South African company sold the name after October 1934?  If so, it was therefore Milo in Australia, and when it was identified this was going to be a profitable and international product, then they went around the world and acquired any similar names elsewhere.–Q8682 (talk) 10:36, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

"Chocolate drink"
In more than one place the article refers to Milo as a "chocolate drink" or "chocolate flavoured". But if you look in the ingredients there is no mention of chocolate. The earlier description mentions only malted barley; the further-down and more-detailed one mentions "cocoa". I believe that chocolate is made from cocoa but that is only my (uncertain) general knowledge. Perhaps someone with more resources and more documentation could make the matter clearer... 1.136.104.193 (talk) 06:49, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

 * According to the website, the four main ingredients are malted barley, milk powder, sugar and cocoa. (See here.) Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:29, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I'm proposing merging Milo (chocolate bar) into this one, as (apart from being a scrappy, poorly-referenced article), the product was apparently discontinued in 2003, and there have been lots of other products come and go over the years. They may as well all be described in the "Derivative products" section. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:29, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Done. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:52, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

The change in the milo bar should be address more clearly. It was to Milo what Coca Cola new was to Coke. A complete and utter failure. They replaced an iconic Australian chocolate bar that every kid who grew up with loved with some rubbish 'energy' bar that's identical to all the other crap import bars on the market. The other items mentioned are not in general circulation, and as a Milo fanatic I'm happy to say I've never seen them on the shelves anywhere. 'Brownie' is not an appropriate name for the new bar, at all. They're most definitely not brownies. The Milo Splits, whatever they are (certainly not in circulation in my state) are probably closer to brownies. But the ORIGINAL Milo Bars was an iconic consumer good for 80's Australia.
 * Talk page of Milo (chocolate bar) at time of merge (untitled comment):

There were thousands of letters written in to Milo when they pulled the classic bar for the rubbish new one, most were met with a straight up 'tough luck, we're not making the old ones again no matter how many people demand it, deal with it' reply. I wish I had of kept the articles handy but I was researching this very subject just a few days ago, I'm sure the sources can be dug up as required, but given that I have a POV outlook like most Australian's do (ie: the new bar tastes like satan's scrotum and aren't worth using as suppositories on your worst enemy and the old ones were as amazing as eating rainbows and pooping butterflies) I honestly don't feel I could do this iconic Aussie foodstuffs any justice, but ask that whoever edits this article or has it on watch (no, not the nestle pr guys who've already sanitised this to avoid any reference to the massive out of proportion and over dramatic backlash nestle got from the Australian consumer public (I've got to admit, our priorities are a bit skewed when the shit fit we chucked over a change in a chocolate bar was enough to make the news several times!) but someone more NPOV to the cause, please, fix this horrible little stub? :P BaSH PR0MPT (talk) 05:14, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * End of talk page of Milo (chocolate bar)

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 * Milo tin (Australia and New Zealand).jpg

Marketing Sugar to Children? No "controversy" section?
This article does not seem to acknowledge any of the issues involved in Nestle marketing this high-sugar product to children.

Several sections of this article underplay, positively spin or completely ignore the misleading marketing practices conducted by Nestle over the years. Using sports-based marketing and targeting towards children, Nestle managed to build a positive health perception towards drinking Milo, which is 40% sugar by weight.

"Carbohydrates can be used for energy by the body, which is the basis of Milo being marketed as an energy drink." - This is clear marketing "spin" - trying to justify the high sugar content and make it appear as a positive.

"In the Philippines, Nestlé partnered with the Department of Education in 2017, in a marketing response to the "energy gap" within school-aged children whose athletic and academic performance were impacted due to low energy." - Nestle ran campaigns targeted towards mums in Malaysia and the Philippines discussing an "energy gap" in children, and implying that parents need to give their children Milo in order to help them excel in schoolwork. The idea of the existence of an "energy gap" was supposedly invented in a study comissioned by Nestle.

There is little supporting evidence in modern nutrition literature that a high amount of sugar intake early in the morning, in the diet of adolescents, has a net positive benefit. As it is currently written, this article is potentially damaging from a public health standpoint.

How do we solve this? Inclusion of a "Controversies" section or a re-write of the existing content? 190.250.96.164 (talk) 17:16, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Milo (drink)


text:
Ventersdorp

Ventersdorp is a town of about 4,200 people in Dr Kenneth Kaunda District Municipality, North West Province, South Africa. It was the seat of the defunct Ventersdorp Local Municipality until 2016.

Ventersdorp is centrally located, making it easier to access more prominent urban towns such as Klerksdorp, Lichtenburg, Potchefstroom and Rustenburg. The township (or Location) of Tshing houses most of the town's blacks and coloureds. Tshing has a diamond mine nearby that was owned by a town councillor in the early 1990s. Tshing Location has one high school: Thuto Boswa High School. The smaller township Toevlug has Coloured residents, some of whom have attend the former whites-only Afrikaans High School after the end of Apartheid since 1995.

History
The town grew around a Dutch Reformed Church that was established in 1866. It was named after Johannes Venter who owned the farm Roodepoort and the land the church was built on. It was proclaimed as a town in June 1887. The Mill on the town was built by Richrd Carew Wilson in 1866

Racial tensions
Afrikaner nationalist and white supremacist Eugène Terre'Blanche was born in Ventersdorp and the town is the base of the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (AWB), the far-right white separatist political organisation and former paramilitary group that Terre'Blanche founded. The town was the site of the 1991 "Battle of Ventersdorp" in which lethal clashes occurred between members of the apartheid government security forces and the AWB ahead of a scheduled appearance by then State President F. W. de Klerk.

External sources

 * The Leader, His Driver and the Driver's Wife, a Nick Broomfield film (1991)
 * His Big White Self, a Nick Broomfield film (2006)

title: Ventersdorp


text:
User:Operation X

I'm a software developer from Kirkland, Washington. My interests include graphic arts, science fiction, Japanese pop culture, and American politics.

I'm contributing and/or plan to contribute to the following subjects:

 * Gundam
 * Gundam 0083
 * Gundam Seed
 * Gundam Seed Destiny

Reference pages:

 * Style and How-to Directory
 * Manual of Style
 * How to write a great article

Pages I'm looking to for inspiration:

 * Star_wars

My sandbox

title: User:Operation X


text:
Talk:John M. Kelly (politician)

Disambiguation
We absolutely need a John Kelly disambiguation page. Right now, five different people are linked to the John Kelly page:

 * 1) the Irish politician
 * 2) the Admiral of the Fleet Sir John Kelly (see HMS Victory, 1931-1936)
 * 3) the "established fiddler" (see Music of Ireland)
 * 4) the author of the 2003 novel Checkmate
 * 5) the U.S. baseball umpire referred to in the Baseball Hall of Fame balloting, 1946 article.

 10:07, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * Possibly a sixth as well - there was a John Kelly who was a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly between 1998 and 2003 for Sinn Fein. I'd be surprised if this is the same man as the Republic politician (who had by then retired). Timrollpickering 11:45, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I am the brother of John Kelly the Irish politician and can absolutely confirm that he is not the John Kelly who was a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly between 1998 and 2003--in fact my brother died in 1991. He was, however, an author--of several legal works, but also of a novel ("Matters of Honour") and a second novel published posthumously, "The Polling of the Dead".

The admiral, fiddler, author of "Checkmate", and baseball umpire are certainly four distinct John Kellys.

Junior ministerial career
"He served in the Government of Liam Cosgrave (1973–77) as Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach and while keeping that post also served as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Defence until May 1977.."

Is there a good source for this? Kenny & Keane (1987) says he was PS to the Taoiseach 1973-77 and PS to the Minister for Foreign Affairs 1975-77. No mention of Defence (but then no mention of him being briefly Attorney General either, and other sources confirm he was that). Harfarhs (talk) 21:55, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * From taoiseach.gov.ie - . Snappy (talk) 18:26, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:John M. Kelly (politician)


text:
Talk:Prison abolition movement

Eighty percent of women in prison are pregnant?
Someone added that 80% of prison women are pregnant, but it's unsourced. That sounds a little absurd.

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Technoculture 320-03
— Assignment last updated by Momlife5 (talk) 15:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Undue Weight: A large portion of this article seems to be written with the assumption that all prison abolitionists are Anarchists, which is NOT true
There is certainly a notable segment of prison abolitionists who are also anarchists, and that segment certainly deserves mention in the article; but the two ideologies/philosophies are distinct. One can be a prison abolitionist but not an anarchist. Being a prison abolitionist is a philosophy about prisons. Someone can be against prisons but have any number of views about other unrelated issues. The article needs to be expanded to include all types of prison abolitionists, as the "anarchist prison abolotionist" perspecitve is clearly being given undue weight.

I also fear that some of the photos in the article (such as the grafitti and the banner that includes the words "fuck the borders") make the movement seem more radical or "out there" or "crazy" than it actually is. It's portraying a radical and angry branch of what intuitively should be a very peaceful movement.

The article also fails to give much mention to potential alternatives to incarceration proposed by non-anarchist prison abolitionists. (Such as Restorative justice, which is barely mentioned at all, just to give one example. Treating all or most crime as a mental health issue instead of as something that needs to be "punished" is another example -- similar to the movement to treat drug use/addiction as a mental health issue instead of a criminal issue.) Vontheri (talk) 17:12, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Hi, Vontheri! I don't think the "undue weight" label is appropriate. The article is fairly long, and gives a number of views; that anarchist views are extensively described in the article seems appropriate to me given the very long history of anarchist abolition efforts.  Other than the section "Anarchism and prison abolition", the rest of the article is quite general and not anarchist-specific, so I don't think there is undue weight being given to anarchist positions.  I do not agree that the article "seems to be written with the assumption that all prison abolitionists are anarchists".  If you have more non-anarchist-related content to add, please do.  Cheers, DoctorMatt (talk) 21:09, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Then why are all three of the photographs on the page related to Anarchism? (With the possible ambiguous exception of this one which although it does not explicitly mention Anarchism or use Anarchist imagery, it is still graffiti which is an artform associated with leftist Anarchist movements.) Yet none of those images are in sections of the article specifically about Anarchist views or history of prison abolitionism? At the very least, the images should be in a relevant section instead of randomly distributed around the article. There are zero images showing prison abolitionist protests, literature, etc. that is from non-anarchist perspectives. This gives the impression to the casual reader that prison abolitionism is entirely a "radical" or even violent (ie. the image with the banner saying "fuck the borders, burn the prisons") ideology, or one that encourages illegal activity (such as illegal graffiti/vandalism, as distinct from legal graffiti as an artform) instead of a movement about how to more humanely deal with those who commit illegal activity.
 * The letters "anarch" appear 58 times in the article. It certainly should be mentioned, but in its proper place. There are passages about Anarchism randomly interspersed throughout the article in various sections. Nearly half of the section "Abolitionist views" (prior to the subsection “Nine perspectives for prison abolitionists”) is about Anarchism, for example. The section "1973 Walpole Prison uprising" is largely about Anarchism, while the actual article for the event (Walpole prison strike) does not even mention the words "anarchy", "anarchism", or any similar words.
 * I intend to add more non-anarchist-related content. But there are also a million other things I intend to do both on and off Wikipedia, so it's difficult to say when I will be able to do so. I put the banner up in case anyone else has any time or ideas for changes in the mean time. Vontheri (talk) 12:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I still do not agree that the "undue" banner should be on this article. Prison abolitionism is radical: it is very far from what mainstream (US people, at least) believe, it is an extreme political position to take (again, in the US at least). It is not a bad thing to be radical. I do not believe that anarchism, or being associated with anarchism or other radical things, is a bad thing; so, I don't think there is anything wrong with connecting prison abolition closely with anarchism in this article, for the reasons I wrote above.
 * I don't care about the images on the page. They add little, and it doesn't matter to me one way or the other if they stay on the page.
 * Perhaps you could list here four or five prison abolition organizations that you feel are non-anarchist (in addition to the ones mentioned in the article already) and I could look into adding information about their activities to the page, if you think that would help. DoctorMatt (talk) 19:28, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Images are hugely important and prominent for Wikipedia pages, as is true across all the communicative arts, so defining a range of images which appropriate it convey the breadth and depth of the movement is very important. ★NealMcB★ (talk) 16:45, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I do not currently have the time to engage in a complex on-going conversation on Wikipedia due to complicated and unforeseen events in my life, but here is at least one organization that seems to be prison-abolitionist without being anarchist. Whether or not something is a "bad thing" or "good thing" is irrelevant; Wikipedia is here to document reality, and the reality is that there are prison abolitionists who are not anarchists.
 * My definition of "radical" is something like "outside the mainstream, violent, and irrational, with strong emotion overpowering logical ways of actually influencing the opinions of other people who don't agree." (That's probably not the dictionary definition of "radical" but it's what I intended by my use of the word.) Prison abolitionism is outside the mainstream, but it is not necessarily violent or irrational. Holding up signs with language like "burn the prisons" sounds violent and is unlikely to convince people who don't already agree with prison abolitionism to actually change their minds; it's much more likely to push people away. "Close the prisons", or "end the prisons", or similar, would be a non-violent and rational alternative wording. Vontheri (talk) 05:15, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "Wikipedia is here to document reality, and the reality is that there are prison abolitionists who are not anarchists." Talking to me like I'm an idiot, and/or unaware of what Wikipedia's mission is, means an end to my participation in this conversation. Best, DoctorMatt (talk) 06:40, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I was not trying to talk to you "like an idiot" or anything even remotely like that. I promise you've seriously misinterpreted my tone and intent. Vontheri (talk) 00:58, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If you can find a photo (or WP:RS that aligns with the WP:POV that you want to add and it fits, there's nothing stopping you from doing so. In the meantime, please remember, the talk page is not a WP:SOAPBOX. Please refrain from WP:personalattacks and casting WP:ASPERSIONS. Kire1975 (talk) 09:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Kire1975When I can find time to add such content then I will certainly add it.
 * Can you please tell my how I violated any of those things you mentioned, especially how anything I said could possibly be conceived of as a personal attack? Or casting aspersions? Where did I accuse anyone of any sort of misbehavior? Perhaps I accused the person in the "burn the prisons" image of misbehavior, but (as far as I am aware) the individual in that picture is not anyone on Wikipedia. I said absolutely nothing meant to insult anyone. I was engaging in amicable debate; at least that's what I thought we were doing.
 * If I violated any of those then it would have to be "soapbox", but I was only explaining what I meant by "radical" because DoctorMatt and I seemed to have different definitions of what the word meant, so I was explaining what I personally meant by the word so what I had said prior would be properly understood in the way that I intended.
 * @DoctormattI'm really quite perplexed and flabbergasted that me saying "Wikipedia is here to document reality, and the reality is that there are prison abolitionists who are not anarchists" was somehow taken as an insult. People mention to each each other Wikipedia's mission and policies all the time; it's not typically meant to be condescending or to imply that the other person is not aware of Wikipedia's basic purpose.
 * I'm sorry I offended you, but it was by no means intentional, nor would I ever in a million years have foreseen it would be interpreted that way, especially as I have been an advocate for civility within Wikipedia for a long time and often take long breaks from posting here for my own mental health due being insulted and treated uncivil myself. Vontheri (talk) 01:13, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Prison abolition movement


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Nauen

Nauen is a small town in the Havelland district, in Brandenburg, Germany. It is chiefly known for Nauen Transmitter Station, the world's oldest preserved radio transmitting installation.

Geography
Nauen is situated within the Havelland Luch glacial lowland, the heart of the Havelland region north of the Nauen Plateau, about 38 km west of the Berlin's city center (18 km from the Berlin city limits) and 27 km northwest of Potsdam. It is one of Germany's largest municipalities by area, comprising Nauen proper and fourteen surrounding villages, including Ribbeck whose landowners were perpetuated in Theodor Fontane's poem Herr von Ribbeck auf Ribbeck im Havelland.

History
The settlement of Nowen was first mentioned in an 1186 deed issued by the Bishop of Brandenburg. The citizens received town privileges by the Brandenburg margraves in 1292; a first town hall was built in 1302. The Ascanian margrave Waldemar vested Nauen with market rights in 1317. A Jewish community already existed in medieval times.

During the Thirty Years' War, in 1631, Nauen was devastated by Imperial troops led by Field Marshal Count Johann Tserclaes of Tilly. On 27 June 1675, Swedish and Brandenburg troops met at the Battle of Nauen during the Scanian War. Under Prussian rule, Nauen became a garrison town. In 1846 it received access to the Berlin–Hamburg Railway.

Nauen is well known for the location of a transmission site. It was used from 1906 to 1945 for VLF and shortwave. After 1945 the installations were dismantled, but after 1955 the GDR started building up a shortwave transmission center at Nauen. Since 1997 four turnable shortwave transmission aerials have been sited there.

Twin towns - sister cities
Nauen is twinned with:
 * 🇩🇪 Kreuztal, Germany
 * 🇩🇪 Spandau (Berlin), Germany

Notable people

 * Michael Werner (born 1939), art dealer
 * Jürgen Drews (born 1945), pop singer
 * Udo Schnelle (born 1952), theologian, professor at the Martin Luther University of Halle-Wittenberg
 * Jochen Kowalski (born 1954), born in Wachow, an opera singer, countertenor
 * Klaus-Dieter Kurrat (born 1955), athlete, medalist of 1976 Olympic Games
 * Claudia Hoffmann (born 1982), hurdler

title: Nauen


text:
User:Plaque Saalt

Hello Please leave your talk on my discussion page!

title: User:Plaque Saalt


text:
Graciosa

Graciosa Island (literally "graceful" or "enchanting" in Portuguese), also referred to as the White Island, is a volcanic island in the Atlantic Ocean. It is the northernmost of the Central Group of islands in the Azores archipelago. The ovular Portuguese island has an area of 60.65 km2, a length of 10 km and a width of 7 km. Its landscape is dominated by a 1.6 km central caldera (the Caldeira) located in the southeast.

History
In addition to the other islands of the Central Group, Graciosa was explored by Portuguese navigators during the first quarter of the 15th century, although there exist no accounts of the first sighting of the island. May 2, 1450 has frequently been referred to as the date of the island's "discovery", although there exists no documentation to support this date. Paradoxically, it is clear that in 1440, by order of Prince Henry the Navigator, cattle and swine were settled on the island in order to facilitate colonization.

Similarly, it is unclear the names of the first settlers to colonize the island because around 1450 formal registries did not exist. The first group of settlers of note to be mentioned were led by Vasco Gil Sodré, a former resident of Montemor-o-Velho, who arrived from Terceira accompanied by his family and servants around the middle of the 1450s. It was this pioneer who inaugurated the official phase of continuous settlement on the island.

The first population center was in Carapacho, a zone in the southeast of the island where it is likely that settlers made landfall. Owing to the area's poor fertility and lack of shelter from the sea, the settlers moved farther into the interior. In a few years a nucleus formed in the northern coast near Barra and Santa Cruz, in order to take advantage of the sheltered coves and access to potable waters from the tidal ponds/wells. From here the colony that would become the village of Santa Cruz da Graciosa would form.

The first Captain-Donatário, Vasco Gil Sodré, was diligent in his duties, establishing a customs-house for the more fertile and ample lands in the northern part of the island, while his brother-in-law Duarte Barreto do Couto was able to coopt the southern part of the island into a second captaincy around the village of Praia. After 1485 the Captaincy of Graciosa was unified under the administration of Pedro Correia da Cunha, Second Captain of Porto Santo (Madeira) and brother-in-law of Christopher Columbus. Taking his family to Graciosa, he settled in Santa Cruz, moving the municipal seat and supplanting Praia as the administrative center. The following year Santa Cruz is elevated to "village" and municipality, under the religious parishes of Santa Cruz and São Mateus da Praia. The change caused an influx in settlers from Beiras, Minho and Flanders (in the Habsburg Netherlands) permitting the installation of the first municipal structures (in this case the construction of the Santa Cruz lighthouse in 1486).

With low costs that permitted easy offloading in multiple ports and with a small population to the island prospered, and becoming the target of attacks by pirates and privateers during the 16th and 17th centuries. In addition to several sackings and general destruction of buildings, the local population were regularly captured. Even under these circumstances, the island was able to continue to support a considerable population, which included original settlers tied to the nobility (specifically from the island of Terceira).

From the earliest settlement, the island survived on agriculture and the wine industry. Given the fertility of the soils and favourable climate, the locals were able to export wheat, barley, wine and local spirits, maintaining an active commerce with Terceira, then the largest port, center of commerce and the administration of the archipelago.

The island's position in the Central Group and its proximity to Terceira made Graciosa, deliberately or not, an important point along trans-Atlantic navigation. Several historical figures passed through the waters of Santa Cruz including the Father António Vieira, a victim of a shipwreck near Corvo who was deposited in the regional capital by a Dutch privateer. In 1791, the French writer François-René de Chateaubriand visited the island while journeying to North America, staying at the Franciscan Convent and who later wrote of the island. The poet Almeida Garrett, also visited his uncle (a judge in Santa Cruz) in 1814 at the age of 15. In 1879, Prince Albert I of Monaco, while visiting the Azores on-board his yacht Hirondelle, made port in Graciosa during his oceanographic studies of marine life. He visited Furna do Enxofre, in the center of the Caldeira, and was the first to remark that the area should be given adequate installations to provide tourist access to the geological site. On a tragic note, it was during the dusk of July 13, 1929 during an emergency landing around the fields of Brasileira, that an Amiot 123 biplane piloted by two Polish pilots crashed. The plane had departed Paris-Le Bourget in an attempt at the first Polish trans-Atlantic crossing to New York. While co-pilot Kazimierz Kubala survived with only slight injuries, Ludwik Idzikowski died in the accident, while the plane was engulfed in flames by careless fire-fighters (burning the deceased body of Idzikowski). A cross was raised to mark the site of the accident.

Along its history the island has experienced many natural crises resulting in general suffering and some deaths. In the summer of 1844, during a heatwave, wherein agriculture was fatally affected and the risk of death to animals and settlers was grave, José Silvestre Ribeiro (then Administrator General of the District of Angra do Heroísmo), sent 90 wooden barrels with water and ordered the digging of several tidal wells and trenches to carry water from the mountains. These measures were instrumental in alleviating the conditions on the island, along with a strong storm on the night of August 20. The island has also suffered many seismic events, many of which caused destruction of homes and deaths. It was the case on June 13, 1730, when an earthquake near Luz caused damage to many homes and severely damaged the parochial church. Further earthquakes occurred in March 1787 and in 1817 without causing considerable damage. But it was not the case in 1837, when earthquakes, around January 12 and at the end of February, left most homes in Praia with some damage. The church in Luz almost collapsed to the ground and many died. In Luz, and specifically in the area of Carapacho, in addition to areas in the neighbouring parish of Guadalupe, were also affected by the 1980 earthquake, with general destruction in residential areas.

Resulting from general emigration to the United States during the 1950s to 1970s, Graciosa has undergone a general decrease in demographics that has affected the socio-economic stability of the island community.

In 2010, the island of Graciosa joined the international network for verification of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty through the installation of monitoring station. This was announced by Regional President Carlos César during a visit to the island, which included the inauguration of the new Furna do Enxofre Visitor's Center and the signing of agreements for the construction of a new Medical Center on Graciosa.

Physical geography
Graciosa Island is situated in the northwest tectonic structure called the Terceira Rift, oriented southeast to northwest and coincident with the orientation of the archipelago. The presence of the Rift has deformed Graciosa into an elongated oval form 12.5 km long by 7.5 km wide.

The coast is rough and rocky but generally low, except in the northwest along the Serra Branca (where the cliffs are 200 meters high). There are two shallow bays, situated in the southeast and southwest corresponding to fishing ports in Vila da Praia and Folga, respectively. Along the northeast coast there are several smaller coves near Santa Cruz da Graciosa that were used as ports but are now abandoned, and the older whale and commercial port in Barra, now used as a recreational zone.

The interior of the island is generally flat and dotted by numerous volcanic cones, with a southern portion of the island higher in altitude. The island is divided into four geomorphological zones:

 * The Caldeira Massif, in the extreme southeast of the island, comprising a well-preserved volcano and caldera;
 * Serra das Fontes, located along the northeast coast, a zone of cliffs and escarpments formed by local tectonics;
 * The Serra Dormida and Serra Branca Volcanic Complexes, occupying a third of the central island, and weathered by local tectonics;
 * The Santa Cruz Platform, occupying the northwest of the island, characterized by a relief that is gently sloping (approximately 50 meters) and punctuated by several volcanic cones.

Volcanism on Graciosa was predominantly characterized by low explosivity, although there appear some deposits that show indications of elevated explosivity in its geological record. Aerial volcanism had its beginning approximately 600,000 years ago with the formation of a shield volcano, which is still visible in the Volcanic Complex of Serra Branca (the oldest part of the island). It is a triple junction plate boundary where the North American Plate, Eurasian Plate and Nubian Plate meet.

This was followed by periods of explosivity, related to the faults that traverse the zone, forming numerous cones that constitute a major part of the Serra Dormida and Serra das Fontes region.

The type of volcanism altered radically around 350,000 years ago with the formation of the central volcano (and later caldera) associated with a different magma chamber, resulting in greater explosivity and giving rise to thick sheets of pumice that layered Serra Branca.

The formation of the Santa Cruz Platform comes from the more recent geological volcanism associated with lower explosive basaltic eruptions resulting in numerous cones and sub-aerial deposits that cover the center and northern portions of the island. This phase evolved towards the southeast forming the Caldera Massif and many of the islets and submarine mounts along the coast.

The last phase of the geological history of Graciosa occurred 2,000 years ago, forming Pico Timão and the basaltic flows that are located in the surrounding areas.

Climate
Graciosa has a mixed humid subtropical-Mediterranean climate (Köppen: Cfa-Csa) with mild to warm temperatures year-round, it is also one of the driest islands of the Azores owing it to its relatively low topography.

Human geography

The territory of Graciosa Island consists of one municipality, Santa Cruz da Graciosa (4,780 inhabitants in 2001), divided into four civil parishes:

 * Santa Cruz - the seat of the municipality and principal urbanized population on the island, located on eastern coast;
 * São Mateus da Praia - a historic village and once municipal seat, until it was unincorporated in the 19th century;
 * Guadalupe - the principal rural population on the island;
 * Luz - civil parish better known locally as "Sul" (South), located along the southern coast of the island.

Economy
Owing to the concentration of agriculture, animal husbandry and dairy industries, the island has maintained a relatively rural and tranquil character. The island's fields produce various fruits, wines, grass-fed beef and dairy cattle as well as cheese and other dairy products. The construction of a commercial port and the 1980 construction of the Graciosa Aerodrome has retained the island's links to the archipelago while strengthening exports and importing goods and services. In addition to this, the island has benefited from infrastructural investments that have included the re-qualification of the secondary school, the construction of a new milk factory and fishing port. As well, improvements to the recreational areas in Praia and refurbishment of the Thermals in Carapacho, the construction of a new hotel and Medical Center have been done in order to improve both the tourist industry and support the local community.

The first hotel on Graciosa was inaugurated in June 2009. The new Graciosa Resort & Business Hotel in Santa Cruz da Graciosa is part of a series of investments to build infrastructure connected to the tourist economy on Graciosa, such as the Carapacho thermal baths. The new four-star hotel has 120 beds, a restaurant for 100 people, a swimming pool and various services related to its category, having cost seven million Euros. It will be managed by INATEL in a partnership with a group of Azorean business people. The hotel is part of the new Praia fishing port on Graciosa includes a set of floating piers, sea marking, water supply networks and electric grids, houses for fishing

Transportation
The island is serviced by the Graciosa Airport, which is located along the northern coast, as well as daily ferry service by Atlanticoline, the Azores' passenger and cargo service.

Architecture
The island of Graciosa is dotted by historical buildings and structures that have made the island's history, through its early discovery to the middle of the Estado Novo era. In addition to the urban nucleus of Santa Cruz da Graciosa, which was classified by IGESPAR as a Group of Public Interest (Núcleo urbano da vila de Santa Cruz da Graciosa/Zona Classificada da Vila de Santa Cruz da Graciosa), there are other buildings, including impérios, windmills and structures used in daily life that were maintained in some form, including the following:

Civic

 * Lighthouse of Carapacho/Ponta da Resting (Farol do Carapacho/Ponta da Restinga)
 * Lighthouse of Ponta da Barca (Farol da Ponta da Barca)
 * Residence of the Captains-General (Casa dos Capitães-mores)

Religious

 * Church of Nossa Senhora da Luz (Igreja de Nossa Senhora da Luz)
 * Church of Santa Cruz da Graciosa (Igreja de Santa Cruz da Graciosa)
 * Hermitage of Nossa Senhora da Ajuda (Ermida de Nossa Senhora da Ajuda)
 * Hermitage of Nossa Senhora da Guia (Ermida de Nossa Senhora da Guia)

Sport
The sporting club of the island is football/soccer and is part of the Associação de Futebol de Angra do Heroísmo.

Notable people

 * Rui Filipe Cunha Correia (born 1995 in Santa Cruz da Graciosa) known as Nené, a footballer with 140 club caps

title: Graciosa