text:
Talk:Cinemaware

Are they under again?
I want to thank 128.114.238.28 for starting this article. Even though I effectively rewrote it, the stub was a great jumping-off point. I'd been meaning to write this article for quite some time—the existing article was just the inspiration I needed. :-)

Does anyone know if they've gone under once again? Their website is still up, but they haven't done anything (apparently) since 2003. I read a review of Robin Hood: Defender of the Crown which said it sucked. Have they called it quits for good? — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:16, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

Cinemaware is totally inactive...
Hello. I'm the one who rewrote the end paragraph for this article. I've been looking forward to the resurection of Cinemaware for almost a decade after they went bankrupt. Nowadays, the site is totally quiet, not unless if you count a spammer who has posted several hundred topics.

It's a shame that Cinemaware left us fans in spite of embarrassment. Even short line, "We're bust; we're shutting down the site for good, all games cancelled," would have been nice, since we know what has happened.

It's a shame.

 * Well, there's a chance they're trying to secure additional financing. Of course, I have no idea what they're really doing, but anything is possible. :-S    — Frecklefoot | Talk 00:07, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

There was a dicussion in the forums a while ago about checking on Cinemaware's offices, but no one lived in California, so no one was able to say anything.

If no one stopped the spammer in forum... I believe he is still spamming as of this hour... Then, I myself concluded, after no interaction by the Cinemaware staff since that post in October 2004. If the moderators were still active, they would ban the spammer instantly.

It's so sad... But we have to move on.

Most ported game?
Does Defender of the Crown really hold the record as the most ported game? My guess would have been Zork I, though I wouldn't have dared to bet any money on that one either. While I haven't found any definitive list of the platforms it was ported to, the [Infocom Fact Sheet] has a pretty impressive list of platforms that Infocom supported to some extent.

 * The article has since been clarified to say that it's the most ported Cinemaware game. My question is no longer relevant.

Mac support and other missing items
I have a bit of Cinemware knowledge, having been there from 1986 to 1989. I was the first non-executive employer who wasn't a coder or artist. Which meant I did anything that came to mind. Early on, I was the entire playtesting department.

The article neglects to mention that Cinemaware had several Mac games. The first version of 'King of Chicago' using digitized clay figures was on the Mac and then graphically redone from scratch for the Amiga and other platforms. I've made the additions

The article also omits 3 in Three, probably the last game published by Cinemaware. (I was no longer with the company by that point.) Cliff Johnson's 'Fool's Errand' had gone through the company like a virus. People would stay up playing it until dawn and then call in sick. So everybody was pretty pleased to have hime join the company. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_in_Three

Cliff Johnson's site also indicates Cinemaware published this thing but I never saw it: http://www.thefoolandhismoney.com/04-cdi/CA-box.htm

It should also be noted that a number of titles were licensed for publishing on Japnese computers but I cannot say if any ever made it to market. I do recall some very difficult conversations trying to explain parts of the game structure to a guy who was forming English sentences phonetically using a translation dictionary. I finally convinced them to send their questions by fax so I could send them lengthy replies they could take as much time as they needed to decipher. After all of the international phone traffic it probably would have been cheaper if they just had us ship them an Amiga system and the games.

A bit of major trivia: Defender of the Crown was one of the first games ever to ship in a CD-ROM version. This was commisioned by Mirrorsoft, who sold the Cinemware line in the UK. This was the PC EGA version of the game with music and narration coming off the Cd in synchronization. Really just Red Book audio added to the existing game but it was a big deal back then. One of the women (Susan?) who worked on the accounting side of the company had immigrated along with her husband from Scotland. He was recruited for the voiceover work in the game.

I'm curious what platform S.D.I. was being ported to that it could have had an effect on company finances at that late date. The first versions of the game were done on the Amiga and Atari ST, mostly by Randy Platt as a contractor at Sculptured Software. This was when the company was still Master Designer Software and Cinemaware was a product line published through Mindscape. I did some playtesting of it before being hired on fulltime. I was involved throughout the PC version and was Associate Producer on the Mac version. I don't recall a C64 version and the Sinclair and Amstrad versions would have been handled by Mirrorsoft since neither of those platforms really existed in the US market.

The Mac version was done and shipping before I left the company in 1989 and there were no other versions in development or planned to the best of my recollection. So how can this game be blamed for the company's collapse?

Of all the things going wrong at Cinemaware I'd think S.D.I. was far down on the list. The biggest problem was that the founder, Bob Jacob, was enamored with the then cutting edge technologies that took far longer to become mainstream consumer items than he'd planned. A lot of time and I can only guess how much money was invested in trying to get in on the ground floor of these new technologies but it turned out to be hard enough just keeping up with what wa already out there.

For instance, the team who created 'Lords of the Rising Sun' on the Amiga were promising that the new VGA graphics just starting to become standard would allow them to make a PC version that looked as good or better than the Amiga version. At the time I left the company there wasn't even an early beta for playtesting.

Remember when DVI was an Intel platform to compete with CD-i? Hell, remember CD-i? Cinemaware got involved in both. A lot of former Cinemaware folks ended up making CD-i games for a few years, actually. So it wasn't a complete loss for them. Philips may have been clueless but it didn't bounce any paychecks. Programmers who loved the Amiga as bachelors had to take that into consideration when they acquired families and mortgages.

Remember the Hasbro NEMO? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMO_(video_game_system)

Cinemaware had a prototype demo unit.

Remember when the AdLib board was new and most PCs had no sound other than the keyboard click speaker? Well, Cinemaware spent a while developing its own PC sound solution just to have a standard for our own games. It was scrapped in favor of AdLib support. (Sound Blaster was an AdLib clone but took over the market.)

Lots of hopes, dreams, and high aspiration but very little of it translated to sellable games.

 * Well, it certainly sounds like you have a better grasp of what went on at Cinemaware than anyone else! Make the edits correspond to your recollections, they're probably better than anything else we have.  I wrote most of the article from memory.  The part about "feature creep" was from a conversation with someone I can't remember who heard it from a friend who used to work for Cinemaware.  Not exactly a sterling source, but it's all I had.  I'd be happy to see it go with the correct information.

 * I worked with Randy Platt a few years ago. He had been working for Kodiak Studios, which was started by the same guy who started Master Designer Software, George Medos.  Kodiak had just gone under (a friend of mine said that, actually, Medos just "took the money and ran") and he was doing temporary contract work for Headgate Studios.  I was doing the same and we shared an office.  Nice guy, I hope he found something (and quick!  Nine kids!).

 * Actually, I worked for Master Designer Software when it was Sculptured Software (from 6/96 to 12/96). I don't know if I was there when he was, but it sure is a small world.  Well, at least it was in Utah.

 * Thanks again for all the history! — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Sculptured Software and Master Designer Software were completely separate companies to the best of my knowledge. The extent of their relationship was a few contracted programming jobs. I met George Metos a few times but was never given any reason to believe he was part of the company and plenty of Sculptured Software developed games appeared under distribution by other companies long after MDS was renamed Cinemaware, then went on to produce many more after Cinemaware went under, and eventually was purchased by Acclaim. []

MDS was started by Robert Jacob. Bob had worked as a talent agent for game programmers, which is likely how he first became involved with Sculptured Software before. There was another much older guy involved, Richard Something but I'm drawing a blank. He'd been involved in the founding of EA and was supposedly the guy who had the idea of packaging the games like record albums and promoting the designers like rock stars. He was around infrequently and I believe he had many other business interests.

Nine kids? Egad! His first was an infant the last time I saw her. Moby Games show some pretty recent work, so I guess he's OK. Good guy. http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,3759/

That reminds me of a great story. Another coder at Cinemaware was Peter Oliphant. http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,164/ He worked at Mattel on some of those really early handheld LED games. (He'd also been in some of their TV ads as a child actor.) His involvement there led to him attending the AMOA show at which Q*bert was introduced. Peter decided to see if he could reproduce the gameplay on the Atari 800. In just three weeks he'd produced 'Mr. Cool.' It was graphically very simple, lacking the pseudo-3D pyramid efect but succeeded in its gameplay goal and at only 4K made for a very cheap cartridge. Plus Q*bert was still only in test sites.

Sierra On-line bought the publishing rights to the game and it promise to be a great coup, having a clone of a highly popular arcade machine seemingly overnight. But for reasons unknown or at least I don't recall, Sierra failed to put the game into stores for the better part of a year. By the time it was shipping there was another Q*bert inspired game coming to the Atari 800. It was titled 'Pharoah's Pyramid' and was a tour de force for the era. Opening animations, intermissions, strong use of the platform's hardware features, etc. Both games were reviewed in a magazine (Electronic Games?) side by side and of course 'Pharoah's Pyramid' was highly favored over the tiny and flat 'Mr. Cool.' Peter was left a bit angered by this because his quickie game lost it's real market window due to the delays on Sierra's end. Given all of that time Peter could easily have had a full featured game, too.

Years later, I'm having a conversation with Randy Platt and we get into the subject of how he got started as a game developer. Turns out his first big title was 'Pharoah's Pyramid.' Oh. After the conversion wound down I went down the hall to Peter Oliphant's office. (He was working on the DOS version 'King of Chicago,' IIRC.) "Hey, Peter! Did you know Randy did 'Pharoah's Pyramid?'"

First, he just sat there looking stunned. Then he leaped over his desk (the side not covered with a PC setup) like a tennis player over the net and ran down the hall with me following in his wake. When I caught up at Randy's office, Peter was standing there, pointing an accusing finger and shouting, "You! You!" Peter bore no actual malice toward Randy and they had a good time talking about how they'd crossed paths in the past but had never realized it while working in the same small company.

Another funny Cinemaware story involving Peter. This was very early on and there was no clerical staff. Beside the Bob and Phyllis Jacob, the coders and artists, there was just me for playtesting, data entry, going out to pick up more equipment, and assorted odd jobs. So when Bob and Phyllis were out of the office I was left to answer the phones. The company was then advertising in the LA Times for more programmers. I happen to have a very good memory for trivia and if a distinctive name appears on the title screen of a game I will probably remember it. On one of those days when I handling the phones an applicant called and identified himself as Peter Oliphant.

"Oh, didn't you do 'Wall War' and 'Mr. Cool?'"

There was no reply for several seconds. Peter was completely unprepared to be recognized. It was like expecting to talk to an answering machine and getting the human instead. He thought he was talking to some kind of human Who's Who of game programming and had to consider if familiarity with his past work was a positive or negative. Actually, outside of those designers and coders promoted by EA and a few well-known others, Peter was one of the few game developers in all the world I would recognize by name, largely because the name Oliphant stood out from the crowd. But for a few moments it was fun to feel like I was part of a shadowy organization monitoring the movements of everyone ever employed in the game industry.

I'll do the edits eventually but I need to get the hang of the display system. I don't want to just blather my recollections if it means ruining the appearance of the page.

 * I knew that Sculptured went through some name changes, but couldn't recall the previous names--I just assumed "Master Designer Software" was one of it's names. I actually joined them right as they were being purchased by Acclaim, so they had been Sculptured for years.  So, my bad (sorry).

 * Man, I sure looked forward to each Cinemaware release. The games' artwork was far better than anything any other companies put out (with Psygnosis being a close runner-up).  The only time I was disappointed was with the Amiga version of Sinbad and the Throne of the Falcon (the Atari ST and DOS screenshots look pretty good, however).  Man, what happened with that title?  I was looking forward to cutting-edge graphics, but was rewarded with ugly, splotchy images instead (I still played it, though).  The gameplay wasn't bad, but the graphics really disappointed me.

 * But, enough reminiscing. Thanks for the stories and the edits!  If you need any help with Wikimarkup, leave a message on my user page. One thing you'll have to get used to is signing your posts (not edits to the article, just posts on Talk pages).  You can do this with 3 or 4 tildes (  or ~ ).  The latter is preferred since it also leaves a timestamp.  Thanks again! — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

 * By the way, your comment: "There was another much older guy involved, Richard Something but I'm drawing a blank. He'd been involved in the founding of EA and was supposedly the guy who had the idea of packaging the games like record albums and promoting the designers like rock stars."

 * As far as I know, both of those things (the packaging, treating programmers like Rock Stars) were Trip Hawkins ideas, the guy who founded Electronic Arts. I think this "Richard" guy may have been pulling your leg (or trying to take undue credit). — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Amiga version of Sinbad was the first and followed much later by the others. It was done almost entirely by Bill Williams, a certifiable genius but not the greatest artist. ( http://www.dadgum.com/giantlist/archive/williams.html ) I only knew him from telephone conversations and was shocked to learn many years later that he'd been struggling with cycstic fibrosis all his life.

The Amiga Sinbad wasn't the prettiest thing but if you look back on the special effects Bill created for that game it was technically amazing. The other versions had better artwork but were far more pedestrian in execution. Like a lot of early game developers, Bill's graphics looked pretty good until machines like the Amiga upped the ante and allowed more conventionally trained artists to compete in the gaming field. The Amiga really marked the end of the one-man development team. Even for small projects the capabilites of the platforms have grown far too much to expect any one person to cover all the bases without some aspects being mediocre.

The EA guy I'm remembering may have been Richard Melmon. None of the sites that mention him show a picture. Bob Jacob believed he had far more to do with EA's conceptual beginnings than credited and my own dealings with Hawkins made me inclined to believe it. Trip Hawkins was very much Steve Jobs protege, especially in the art of self-aggrandizement. He once told me the most blatant lie to explain the severe delay in porting One-on-One Basketball fromt he Apple to the Atari. It was really about holding out for a new disk copy protection technique that had been promised (and lasted less than 24 hours from when the game reached retail) than about the port itself. Hawkins tried to claim this was because EA was creating a magical development system that would make it as easy to port games to the PC as it was from the Apple to the Atari or C64. Considering how many Apple II games made the transition to the Atari in periods measured in days, the idea of holding up a release for months to accommodate the then miniscule PC game market was worse than ridiculous. It suggested insanity if true. I've never believed Hawkins to be insane but a boldfaced liar? Sure.

 * Well, I hate to sound anti-establishment, but my dealings with most suits has shown they're very good at lying, even when telling the truth would serve just as well. For example:
 * I was working on a game for a now-defunct company. The company's owner came by with a potential investor.  He asked me to run it and said, "Yeah, it's mostly all in assembly for maximum speed."  That was a total lie.  It was all in C (and some C++) because it would've been insane to program the game all in assembly in that era.  Some things we were translated to assembly (like blitting and other graphic routines), but only what had to be.  Everything else was in C/C++ so it was much easier to debug and modify.
 * A friend of mine was working on a high-end 3D simulation and experimented with a new effect they wanted. The boss-guy came by his cube and asked about it.  He showed it to him, but told him it wouldn't be in the production code until he totally revamped the sim's scene graph (not a trivial thing).  A few minutes later the boss came back by with some potential customers and showed them the effect/feature and said, "This feature will be in our next release" (total BS).
 * Some higher-ups at another company I worked at were on a conference call with a customer. The boss and lead programmer said that the (near complete) game was designed from the ground up with multi-player in mind.  The producer, however, told the truth: we hadn't even started thinking about multi-player yet, but, what features did they have in mind?  He was confident they could implement whatever they wanted.  He was fired as soon as the phone call ended (and he was a gnarly producer).

 * I have some other stories of how an engineer stepped up to fix a problem, and all of a sudden, in the suit's eyes, the problem was now the engineers fault, but I won't drone on... — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Man, I just finished reading this interview with Randy. Man, I shared an office with this guy for the better part of a month and I never knew I was in the presence of greatness!  Really, all I knew about him was that he just lost his job from Kodiak, a company I knew very little about.  I didn't know he programmed some of The Greats from Cinemaware!  Geez, and we talked all the time.  I guess I should've asked about his past.  He sure wasn't one to toot his own horn.

 * I even remember hearing his end of a phone interview. One of his answers was "no, just gameplay stuff."  He just claimed he was a game play programmer!  He could've mentioned what he did with Cinemaware--that would mean a great deal in my book!

 * Please remember to sign your posts signing your posts with 3 or 4 tildes ( or ~ ). :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:DefenderOfTheCrown.jpg
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 * Yeah, I just took care of this. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

TV Sports Baseball and Boxing?
I'm not sure that TV Sports: Baseball was developed by Cinemaware. As I understand it, Mindscape just used the name to localize Bo Jackson Baseball for Europe. --Jtalledo (talk) 14:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Same with TV Sports Boxing. --Jtalledo (talk) 14:55, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cinemaware


text:
Mabea

Mabea may refer to:

 * Mabea (plant) a genus of the spurge family (Euphorbiaceae) of flowering plants;
 * Mabea ethnic groups of Cameroon
 * Geoffrey Aori Mabea, Kenyan economist
 * Kouya Mabea (born 1998), Ivorian footballer

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Mabea


text:
Talk:Regula falsi

Integrate later results
I think, the results from "Improved Algorithms of Illinois-Type for the Numerical Solution of Nonlinear Equations", Ford, 1995, should be integrated in the article. Especially his new methods, which are better than Anderson and Björck, and some of the results from his experiments. Gabriel (talk) 14:00, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:Be bold! --Qwfp (talk) 20:15, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Removal dd 4 Febraury 2005
I removed the text because I found it impossible to justify. Calculus is not needed to arrive at the idea of secant lines. The linear problems mentioned in the Nine Chapters do not use secant lines; in fact, I would argue they do not use the false position method either but linear interpolation. Finally, I could not find any evidence in History of calculus and Moscow and Rhind Mathematical Papyri that the Egyptians developed calculus, except for the false statement that one needs calculus to calculate the volume of a frustum. -- Jitse Niesen 18:18, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Egyptian mathematics
To the editor with IP address 209.150.67.45: Could you please explain (or give references explaining) how the ancient Egyptians used the false position method? The example in Egyptian mathematics suggests that given an equation ax = b, they try one value, say y, compute ay and compare the result with b to get the solution. I am trying to understand the differences with the method of double false position as used by the Chinese. Thanks, Jitse Niesen 10:24, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Rule of False Position?
How does the method described in this article fit in with the "method of false position" described at and ? Do we need to say something here about other uses of the terminology? Tom Harrison Talk 20:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, it should be mentioned, perhaps via a disambiguation page. I think that the methods are related, but the rule of false position described on the web pages you mention is considerably less sophisticated. I haven't found a good reference on this though. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 12:15, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Another external link for when the Rule of False Position page is created: *Rule of False Position at Convergence --Nic bor 18:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

 * False position as used in Ancient Egypt is described in sources such as
 * * Clagett, Marshall Ancient Egyptian Science, A Source Book. Volume Three: Ancient Egyptian Mathematics (Memoirs of the American Philosophical Society) American Philosophical Society. 1999 ISBN 978-0871692320
 * * Katz, Victor J. (editor),Imhausen, Annette et.al. The Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India, and Islam: A Sourcebook, Princeton University Press. 2007 ISBN 978-0691114859
 * * Gillings, Richard J., Mathematics in the Time of the Pharaohs, Dover Publications, 1982 reprint (1972) ISBN 0-486-24315X
 * From their description the method of false position (also called false assumption) as used in Ancient Egypt is not iterative. It really does not follow the general outline of the technique from numerical analysis as outlined on this article. I have only seen examples where the method is used to solve linear and simple quadratic equations. It may be a very simple version of the modern technique, but I really like Jitse Niesen's suggestion that this method be given it's own page and that this one links to it via disambiguation. I will probably write something up over the weekend (time permitting). Regards --AnnekeBart (talk) 13:34, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

different visualisation

is anyone interested in integrating this into the article? i find it looks a bit nicer than the old one... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.117.72.126 (talk • contribs) 17:06, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

 * 212.117.72.126: It is "do it yourself" around here. Why not add it yourself, if you think that it is good. But I would not remove the old diagram, if I were you. JRSpriggs 04:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC) P.S. You should give copyright information (who created it and confirmation that he/she gave permission) even for diagrams posted on talk pages like this one.

Thanks for the example, shown in the animated diagram, in which Regula Falsi works in a situation that would be particularly unfavorable to other popular methods.

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Division vs. multiplication
Regarding the example code: since the compiler will convert the floating-point division by a constant into a floating-point multiplication by the (precomputed) reciprocal of that constant at compile time, there is no need to make the code less clear in order to gain speed: the machine code generated will be the same in either case. -- The Anome 12:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Even faster than multiplying by one half, is shifting one bit to the right. Which optimization the compiler will also do for us, if it is any good (and knows what the constant is). More important still is that the code should be clear to the reader. JRSpriggs 05:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Since only variables with the type double is divided by 2 in the C code, it would wreak havoc on the result to shift it in order to achieve a division by two. Shifting is only equivelant to division and multiplication (depending on the direction of the shift) when dealing with integers -- never floats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.212.20.61 (talk) 03:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the example code: the stopping criteria seems to be bad. Since the bracket width |b-a| will not converge to zero, it is most likely that n iterations will be spent when much fewer will suffice to meet the tolerance e. And it is ( fabs(s) + fabs(t) ), not fabs(s+t), i.e., imagine s+t=0. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.186.124.99 (talk) 15:39, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

error in equation?
in the last equation, :$$ f(b_k) + \frac{f(b_k)-f(a_k)}{b_k-a_k} (c_k-b_k) = 0. $$

shouldn't $$c_k$$ and  be switched like this?
 * $$ f(b_k) + \frac{f(b_k)-f(a_k)}{b_k-a_k} (b_k-c_k) = 0. $$ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceazare (talk • contribs) 20:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Difference Between False Position And Bi-Section Method for Finding real roots
Difference Between False Position And Bi-Section Method for Finding real roots —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankurpatel12 (talk • contribs) 06:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

false what?
It would be helpful if the article could explain why the method bears such a poetic title. Tkuvho (talk) 14:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

You mean "False Position"? That's easy: "False Position is a really ridiculous mis-translation of "Regula Falsi".

Why is it called "Regula Falsi"? In Latin, Regula Falsi means "Rule of Falsehood", or "Ruler of Falsehood", or maybe (by extension from Ruler), "Straight Line of Falsehood".

Actually, in Latin, Regula can refer to straight things other than a ruler, and so "Straight Line of Falsehood", is the best guess for Regula Falsi's meaning. ...because Regula Falsi is based on a false, or only approximate, assumption that the function is linear.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 17:27, 10 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff -- After I posted that answer, it was pointed out to me, at this page, that the name "False Positions" was in use before the name "Regula Falsi" was coined. ...so "False Position" wasn't intended as a translation of "Regula Falsi". So I'd delete my answer above, except that someone said that we shouldn't do deletion at the talk-page.

So I'll just acknowledge that False Position isn't an intended translation of Regula Falsi. ...And that was my main objection to the "False Position" name.

So why was Regula Falsi given as unspecific a name as "False Positions"? At that time, there weren't as many other numerical equation-solving methods to distinguish it from, so there wasn't a need for the name to specify details or a distinction. Regula Falsi distinguished itself from Bisection by its effort to estimate, by a linearity-assumption, the position of the solution.

Of course the the name "Bracketing Secant" would be more descriptive, but it's also appropriate for an ancient method to be referred to by its early names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelOssipoff (talk • contribs) 12:10, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 12:11, 15 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Bad method?
In the section "Illinois algorithm" it says: "While it is a misunderstanding to think that the method of false position is a good method, it is equally a mistake to think that it is unsalvageable." This statement seems subjective and not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Usually one compares one method to another and points out pros and cons objectively. The author should at least elaborate why he/she considers this method so bad. Italo Tasso (talk) 21:32, 8 March 2012 (UTC

Yes, the fact that something can be improved on doesn't mean that it isn't already "good".

Regula Falsi, even without improvement, always converges, and usually considerably faster than Bisection.

Yes there are situations that can slow Regula Falsi down, even to a prohibitive degree. But often those situations are ones that would prevent Newton's method or Secant from converging at all.

Some improvements on ordinary Regula Falsi include the Illinois version, Pegasus, and the Anderson-Bjőrk version.

Those methods usually avoid the slowdowns that can happen to Regula Falsi. In general they do a good job of avoiding the problems that difficult equations can cause--something that is a problem for all root-finding, equation-solving methods.

Illinois is pretty good for such a simple improvement. In Galdino's "A family of Regula Falsi Methods", he reports numerical tests that he did. In his tests, Anderson-Bjőrk was the clear winner, for simple roots.

For multiple roots, no method improved significantly on Bisection, and the only ones that even did as well as Bisection were three new ones proposed by Galdino. But, even they didn't improve a lot on Bisection. ...And, as I said above, Anderson-Bjőrk was the clear winner with simple roots--a kind of problem in which the best methods were a lot faster than Bisection.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 17:27, 10 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Indian mathematics
On 19 March 2006, Deeptrivia added this sentence: "The oldest surviving documents demonstrating knowledge and proficiency in the false position method is the Indian mathematical text Vaychali Ganit..." (since then, the spelling was changed from Vaychali to Vaishali). No source for this statement was provided at the time, nor has any been supplied since that date. The statement needs to be reliably sourced, or else it should be removed. Rks22 (talk) 00:12, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Double False position method originated in China, spread to Europe via the middle east and then returned to China via the Jesuits
http://books.google.com/books?id=AG2XBCmxYcUC&pg=PA157#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=993

"Dun, Liu, 2002. 'A Homecoming Stranger: Footsteps of the Double-False-Position Method.' In: From China to Paris. 2000 Years Transmission of Mathematical Ideas. Edited by Yvonne Dold-Samplonius, Joseph W. Dauben, Menso Folkerts & Benno van Dalen. Stuttgart: Steiner. [Abstract: Appearing first in the Nine Chapters on Mathematical Procedures (ca. 50 AD), the Double-False-Position Method spread from China into Central Asia in the Middle Ages and became known as the 'Khitan algorithm' [hisâb al-khata'ayn] among Arabic mathematicians. Leonardo Fibonacci (1170?-1250) devoted a separate chapter to this method in his Liber Abaci (1202). When the Jesuits introduced Western mathematical knowledge into China in the early 17th century, they claimed that the Double-False-Position Method was a new technique invented by Western mathematicians and could not be found in the 'old text' of the Nine Chapters. This is because ancient Chinese mathematical books had become extremely rare at that time. Therefore when the Double-False-Position Method appeared in the Tongwen suanzhi (1613) and Xijinglu (ca. 1610), it was said that 'a stranger came from overseas']."

07:47, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Accuracy of the name "regula falsi"
Around December 8th or 9th, I added text to the article, pointing out that "False Position" is a ridiculous mis-translation of Regula Falsi.

I told why:

In Latin, adjectives must agree with their noun in gender, number and case. ("case" refers to how the noun is used-subject, object, etc.)

"Regula" is feminine, nominative singular. "Falsi" is either masculine nominative plural, or masculine or neuter genitive singular.

Even if you say that maybe "Regula" is masculine with feminine form, that still leaves the blatant disagreement in case, number, or both.

"Falsi", as an adjective, doesn't agree with "Regula" as a noun.

Obviously "Falsi" is a noun.

"Regula" means "Rule" (in the sense of a regulation), or "Ruler" (straight-edge). But "Regula" was also used to refer to straight things other than a ruler.

"Falsus", or "Falsum", as a noun, means "Falsehood".

The best suggestion for the meaning of Regula Falsi is:

Straight Line of Falsehood

(because "Regula" can refer to straight things other than a ruler).

That's because Regula Falsi indeed uses a false assumption that the function is linear.

As I said, I added that text to the article.

Someone removed it within about 2 days. Why? Because you found an "authoritative source" that you could cite for the "False Position" translation? I don't care how authoritative your source was. Regula Falsi couldn't be Latin for False Position.

Making the embarrassment worse still, you have "False Position Method" as the article's title.

The person who deleted my comments about the ridiculous "False Position" translation said that the accuracy of the name isn't relevant to the fact that it's used. ...but it's relevant to the matter of whether it makes any sense or should be used.

And, if we're going to make up a name that differs in meaning from the classical name, then at least make up something that has some descriptive value. Every iterative approximation uses and gives "false-positions". The name "Regula Falsi" specifies something that is straight-linear and a falsehood. That's a good description of the straight line used in Regula Falsi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.132.202.166 (talk) 21:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC) Michael Ossipoff
 * An article like is probably not watched by many active editors so it may take quite a long time before someone who understands the topic and the terminology sees the changes or discussions (I am not that person). The edit on 8 December 2015 which I reverted was diff. Regardless of its accuracy, that text is not appropriate because the article makes no claim about the terms "false position method" and "regula falsi" other than they are both used to refer to the technique discussed. I agree that an encyclopedic article would benefit from a brief discussion of the origin of the name, but it would need a reliable source. I asked for assistance at WT:WikiProject Mathematics. Johnuniq (talk) 23:37, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

I reply:

It would make a lot more sense to ask a Latinist whether Regula Falsi means False Position.

Regardless of whether the article makes a claim about the meaning of Regula Falsi in Latin, you're using a nonsensical translation as the article's title. As I said, that use, as the title, worsens the embarrassment of your mis-translation.

And no, you don't just say that both terms are used. You use "False Position" as the article's title, and call the method by that name, throughout the article.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

 * While the Latin scholar may be correct about this point, the revert was necessary as this is WP:SYN and not relevant to this article for the simple reason that the term false position was translated into Latin and not from it.

- You haven't shown that.

"Regula Falsi" is not a valid Latin translation of "False Position". So, how do you support a claim that Regula Falsi is an attempted Latin translation of False Position?

Suppose, hypothetically, that an Italian expression meaning "False Position" were in use in 1591, and that, a century later, it was replaced by Regula Falsi, a Latin term.

Does that make Regula Falsi a Latin translation of (the Italian for) False Position?

Of course not. All that can be said is that Regula Falsi replaced False Position (or, rather, the Italian expression with that meaning). There's no reason to believe that Regula Falsi was intended as a translation for False Position. In fact, the fact that Regula Falsi is not a valid Latin translation of False Position, weighs against such a claim.

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 13:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

-- (D. E. Smith, History of Mathematics, Vol. 2, pg. 437, Dover) Regula Falsi appears in 1690, but Fibonacci, Pacioli and Tartaglia all used the method before then, referring to it as "El cataym" (from the Arabic sources).

But that doesn't favor "False Position" unless "El cataym" means "False Position". Does it?

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 13:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Pagani in 1591 says, "Delle Regole del Cattaino ouero false positioni".

--- 1. One person saying it doesn't constitute widespread usage.

2. In any case, for that to lend any support to "False Position", two things would have to be shown:

...a) That "Delle Regole del Cattaino ouero false positioni" (or some part of it) means False Position, in Italian.

...b) That Pagani was referring to the Regula Falsi method when he said that.

I must apologize for not looking up an Italian translation before starting this posting--I intended to. Of course I'll do so after I post this.

As for a): The "-i" ending on a noun, in Italian, is a plural ending. On a plural noun like "positioni", derived from a Latin 3rd declension noun, the Italian "-i" plural would be used for either gender.

The "-e" ending on Regole corresponds to the Latin "-ae", a feminine singular noun form. "Regole" is the Italian for the Latin "Regulae". Rules or rulers, or some sort of things that are straight.

The "-e" ending on "False" suggests the feminine plural ending on a feminine noun, or on a feminine plural form of an adjective (one of those adjectives derived from a 1st-&-2nd declension Latin adjective using the nominative singular endings of "-us" (masculine), "-a" (feminine), and "-um" (neuter) ). In Latin, "Falsus" is a 1st-&-2nd declension adjective. "False" would be the Italian form of the Latin "Falsae", the feminine plural nominative. Italian doesn't specify case.

So, "false positioni" would mean "False Positions". The necessary agreement in number and gender, between adjective and noun, would then be fulfilled, in Italian.

So, isn't that phrase saying something like this?:

"Of the rules (or rulers or straight-lines) of Cattaino (probably the name of a person or a place)[something] false positions."

I have no idea what that [something] ("ouero")is. I briefly tried to look it up, and the online Italian translation program said that it had detected Galacian, and translated "ouero" as "egg".

If the Italian phrase you quoted is a sentence, then it needs a verb. If "ouero" were the verb, it would be 1st person singular present-tense.

Anyway, "false positioni" is definitely plural.

Again, I apologize for not looking up a translation of your Italian quote before posting this. I'll look it up afterwards though.

"Delle" is a contraction of a preposition and a definite article. "Di le". "Of the" (plural).

What if "ouero" is a verb, the 1st person singular present of a verb "ouerare", and what if "ouerare" means "like" or "prefer"?

"Ouero" doesn't sound a lot like the Spanish "quiero", but, if it's needed for "ouero" to be a verb, then that suggests itself as a possibility.

If Pagani was saying "Of the rules of Cattaino, I like (or prefer) False Positions.", then that would support your suggestion regarding what Pagani was saying.

It isn't at all obvious that "false positioni" is referring to an equation-solving method. As I said, it means "False Positions", and that's so non-specific that it could refer to any rule involving positions that are false. There's no particular reason to believe that it refers to the Regula Falsi method.

But even if it were established that something meaning "False Positions" were being used to name that method, in 1591, but it was replaced by "Regula Falsi" (which is not a Latin translation of "false positioni") by 1691, then, with Regula Falsi becoming the widespread term, that wouldn't support False Positions as the more legitimate term.

I'll try again to look up a translation for the Italian phrase that you quoted from Pagani.

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 13:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff ---

This and many other examples are quoted in Smith. Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 00:18, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

"False-Position" is a ridiculous mis-translation of Regula Falsi
My initial post about this was removed, presumably because I posted it at the wrong place (at the top of the page, above the official page-heading).

So then, let me post it here, in the usual way of adding a section to the "talk page":

Around December 8th or 9th, I added text to the article, pointing out that "False Position" is a ridiculous mis-translation of Regula Falsi.

I told why:

In Latin, adjectives must agree with their noun in gender, number and case. ("case" refers to how the noun is used--subject, object, etc.)

"Regula" is feminine, nominative singular. "Falsi" is either masculine nominative plural, or masculine or neuter genitive singular.

Even if you say that maybe "Regula" is masculine with feminine form, that still leaves the blatant disagreement in case, number, or both.

"Falsi", as an adjective, doesn't agree with "Regula" as a noun.

Obviously "Falsi" is a noun.

"Regula" means "Rule" (in the sense of a regulation), or "Ruler" (straight-edge). But "Regula" was also used to refer to straight things other than a ruler.

"Falsus", or "Falsum", as a noun, means "Falsehood".

The best suggestion for the meaning of Regula Falsi is:

Straight Line of Falsehood

(because "Regula" can refer to straight things other than a ruler).

That's because Regula Falsi indeed uses a false assumption that the function is linear.

As I said, I added that text to the article.

Someone removed it within about 2 days. Why? Because you found an "authoritative source" that made the same error? That obedient copying policy is what propagates an error forever (if allowed to).

Can you cite a Latinist who says that Regula Falsi means False Position? Read a page or two about Latin grammar. Or ask any highschool (secondary school) freshman 1st-year Latin student. Falsi as an adjective doesn't agree with Regula as a noun. Falsi couldn't be an adjective, as I pointed out above. "False Position" is, as I said, a ridiculous mis-translation of Regula Falsi.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 00:00, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

 * See above section. Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 00:20, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * To add to the above discussion: it doesn't matter whether it's a bad translation; what matters is that "false position" is the standard English-language name for this method. See WP:COMMONNAME. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

- So it doesn't matter that "False Position" is useless and meaningless as a descriptive name..that it completely fails to distinguish Regula Falsi from any of the other iterative approximation methods? Every iterative approximation method gives and uses "false position"s.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 00:36, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff
 * So lobby the textbook authors to change their terminology. But we have to follow them here, not lead them. See WP:SOAPBOX. —David Eppstein (talk) 00:48, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I concede that. But Regula Falsi and False Position are both popular and well-established names of the method. You'd be following established usage, and not leading, by using either one of those names.

So that policy of sticking with established usage doesn't choose between the names "Regula Falsi" and "False Position".

One of those names (Regula Falsi) is more descriptive than the other, and has widespread usage going back to 1690. The other (False Position) is evidently just a miss-guessed English translation of Regula Falsi. (I address the objections to that claim in my reply in the other section on this topic, on this page). -

 * I'm not versed in Latin; you could well be right about a bad translation. But for the purposes of Wikipedia, the quality of the translation may be irrelevant. Wikipedia articles are descriptive of a topic, not prescriptive. They summarize the topic as it is described in reliable sources. False position and regula falsi are often treated as names for the same algorithm or class of algorithms.

--- Yes, I don't deny that, and I concede that Wikipedia's policy is not to promote new usages. But, as you said, both names are widely-used and well-established. That means that Wikipedia isn't compelled to use one instead of the other.

So, which one should be chosen?: The one that's more descriptive ("Straight Line of Falsehood"), with widespread usage back to 1690, or the one that is less descriptive and evidently a miss-guessed translation of the other?

You're free to choose. Or, I should say, we are free to choose. So (and it wouldn't violate Wikipedia policy at all) let's use, in the title and within the article, the name that is better, with regard to descriptiveness and legitimate origin.

Choose "False Position" if you think that it's better in some way (but say why it's better), not because Wikipedia policy requires it--it doesn't.

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 11:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

Look in any book on numerical analysis; I just verified it in my copy of Numerical Recipes. Hence, even if the translation is bad, using the commonly accepted names is the right approach for a Wikipedia article. -

Quite so. Regula Falsi and False Position are both commonly-accepted names. Using either would be the right approach, in accord with Wikipedia policy. So let's use whichever name is better. ...whichever name is more descriptive and has longer widespread usage and better etymological legitimacy.

Just a suggestion.

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 11:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff --

In fact looking at some historical sources, it is apparent that there are a lot confusions, misinterpretations, and mistakes concerning the varieties of false position and secant methods. Our job is describe the history and current practice, not prescribe a canonical algorithm or better translation. If there is a reliable historical source that discusses the translation, I wouldn't be opposed to adding a sentence about the translation. Otherwise, it is best to leave out of the article personal linguistic findings on the topic. --Mark viking (talk) 01:09, 11 December 2015 (UTC) -- I'm adding this post to this last section, where it's more likely to be noticed.

Looking at some books on the Internet, yes it does seem as if "False Position" or "False Positions", whether in English or Italian, was a widespread name for the Regula Falsi method. ...even before the 1691 date which someone here gave for the first appearance of the "Regula Falsi" name.

So yes, both names have equal historical legitimacy, and maybe "False Position(s)" was used earlier (but "Regula Falsi" is not a translation of it).

If "Regula Falsi" means "Rule of Falsehood" (in the sense of a suggestion for how to do something, like solve equations), then both terms have about equal specificity.

But if "Regula Falsi" meant "Straight Line of Falsehood", then that has better specificity than "False Position(s)".

That's why I prefer "Regula Falsi", because it might specify more, in its meaning.

...and maybe because it sounds better to use a Latin term, rather than an English term that obviously doesn't mean anything.

For those reasons, and because an ancient method deserves to be named in an ancient language (or at least a Classical language), the name "Regula Falsi" is more aesthetically-appealing.

Anyway, of course either will do, equally historically-legitimately. So I won't pursue the name-legitimacy issue.

I claim that "Regula Falsi" would be better, for the reasons that I've just given, above, but I won't push for a change about it.

--108.132.202.166 (talk) 15:46, 11 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff --- I tried again, but couldn't find a meaning for "ourero" at the online Italian translation pages. Maybe it isn't used in modern Italian.

But the other words of the sentence tell us that Pagiani is saying that, of the rules of Cattiano, he likes, dislikes, prefers, recommends, uses, or avoids False Positions.

...or some such verb.

That was just a wild guess, relating it to quiero. I realize that there isn't enough resemblence to even justify it as a guess. But, for him to choose it to mention it, it's more likely that he mentioned it because he liked it, that because he disliked it.

Another possibility: The English word "Operate" suggests a Latin word "Operare". Spanish has "Obrero" for worker, and we have the Latin expresion "Opus Magnum", and the word "Opera" (the plural of "Opus").

So maybe, with a 17th century word related to those, Pagiani was saying that he uses False Positions.

Anyway, as I was saying, I won't make an issue about the name of that method.

...other than to just add this:

So they were calling it false positioni (false positions) before Regula Falsi was was coined. But Latin was the internatinal language then. So the Latin word would have been the international word, and likely the more official one.

...suggesting that Regula Falsi had more official status than False Positions.

Just saying...

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 00:02, 12 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

I've added a new, simpler, more basic intro to eq. solving, bracketing-methods, Bisection, & Regula Falsi.
I've just added that new section, at the beginning of the article. I didn't delete any previous work. I just added my introduction to the beginning. My addition introduces equation-solving; the generalities of methods for numerical equation-solving, and the need for them; the 2-point bracketing methods in general; Bisection; and Regula Falsi (False Position).

I put my added sections first in the article because I felt that the simpler, more basic, more familiarly worded, everyday-language introduction and explanations should come first in the article, in keeping with wikipedia guidelines to that effect.

I claim that my introduction & explanation of those topics better abides by the wikipedia guidelines specifying that articles start out simple, with things that the reader will already know about, speaking in language that the reader will understand. In these article sections that I added, the purpose was to say these things in a way that the most readers will understand. That's in the spirit of wikipedia's guidelines on such matters, and that was my purpose, in adding those sections at the beginning of the article.

I understand that the status-quo has a lot of weight at wikipedia. But I ask that, before you delete my added sections, you take a look at the simple, basic, familiarly-worded, clear, direct, concise, and sound introductions and explanations that I offer.

I didn't want to delete anyone else's work. Because the previous, already-existing article emphasized historical meanings for False Position, and its earlier forms, and my sections don't, I added the section-heading "Discussion from Historical Context" at the beginning of the already-existing article.

If anyone is inclined to delete my additions, then can we discuss it here first? I posted this announcement and discussion of my edits, and all I ask is that we have some discussion here before anyone starts deleting my added sections.

--MichaelOssipoff (talk) 01:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC)MichaelOssipoff

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Re: False position method (copied from my talk page)
I made the correction to the expression
 * $$ x = \frac{b_1 x_2 - b_2 x_1}{b_1 - b_2},$$

and I still don't see how the original can be correct given that we're trying to find the $x$ satisfying
 * $$ f(x) = b$$.

After all, our formula for $x$ should depend on $b$. This expression would be correct if $b = 0$, and I was merely correcting it to the more general case.

 * You are mistaking the generic expression $f(x) = b$ for actual data. This method predates algebraic manipulation to find $x$, but in order to describe it to a modern audience it is necessary to use algebraic notation. The method involves two guesses $x_{1}$ and $x_{2}$ and the values of the function at these two points $b_{1}$ and $b_{2}$, respectively. The linear equation you are trying to solve is $ax + b = 0$ (I am using the symbol $b$ again to point out a possible confusion), so in particular $ax_{1} + b = b_{1}$ and $ax_{2} + b = b_{2}$. From these values, a better approximation for $x$ is obtained (exact if the equation is linear). If you carry out the algebra involved, you will see that the $b$'s are cancelled out and do not appear in the final version. --Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 19:56, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm not mistaking anything, though perhaps the page itself is. The page assumes the following conditions:
 * $$f(x) = b$$
 * $$f(x_1) = b_1$$
 * $$f(x_2) = b_2$$
 * Given these conditions, the correct approximation for $x$ is
 * $$ x \approx \frac{(b_1 - b) x_2 - (b_2 - b) x_1}{b_1 - b_2}$$.
 * Feel free to change one of the original conditions rather than the approximation for $x$, but something on the page must be changed for everything there to agree. -- JoshuaGreen1981 (talk) 21:00, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Perhaps I was being a bit too glib. Here is the complete derivation and I have changed a condition to avoid an ambiguity as to what the function actually is (which I still believe is the cause of this problem).
 * $f(x) = ax + c = 0$ is the equation to be solved.
 * Solve these two equations for $a$, the slope of the line, to obtain
 * The solution of the equation of interest is $f(x_{1}) = ax_{1} + c = b_{1}$.
 * Using either of the last two equations solve for $c$, say,
 * Now substitute these values for $a$ and $c$ into the solution and simplify to obtain the result
 * I hope that this convinces you.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Using either of the last two equations solve for ⇭⇭⇭, say,
 * Now substitute these values for ⇭⇭⇭ and ⇭⇭⇭ into the solution and simplify to obtain the result
 * I hope that this convinces you.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I hope that this convinces you.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I hope that this convinces you.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 05:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

 * I agree that the page is now correct, as you've replaced the previous
 * $$f(x) = b$$
 * with
 * $$f(x) = ax + c = 0$$
 * which essentially sets $f(x_{2}) = ax_{2} + c = b_{2}$ in my version. I disagree that you've merely "avoid[ed] an ambiguity as to what the function actually is" as, in fact, you've fundamentally changed the equation that we're trying to solve.  We're now looking for a root, solving $a = b_{1} − b_{2}⁄x_{1} − x_{2}$ rather than the more general $x = −c⁄a$ that was there before. -- JoshuaGreen1981 (talk) 13:35, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

 * My apologies. Since I knew the result was correct I didn't look far enough backwards to see where the real problem was. My editing style is to keep as much of the original work as possible and here that got me into trouble. I took it for granted that the introductory material was correct and didn't see the flaw in the assumptions. --Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * That's understandable. Apology accepted. -- JoshuaGreen1981 (talk) 03:08, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Name of article
The term "method of false position" has consistently been more common than "false position method" or "rule of false position" during the 20-21st centuries, according to Google ngrams.

This article should be moved to Method of false position.

Comments? --Macrakis (talk) 03:26, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Personally I would prefer to move it to regula falsi. --Trovatore (talk) 04:10, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Silly me, I didn't plot that on ngrams. And sure enough, regula falsi turns out to be more common than the alternatives! I will start by putting that in first position in the lead. --Macrakis (talk) 05:47, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * do search results on “false position method” include false-position, with hyphen? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 16:37, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do, but if you look at the search results (I suggest setting page size to 100), you'll find that the variant with the hyphen is rare, even if it is arguably more correct grammatically. --Macrakis (talk) 17:05, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

History of the notion "Regula falsi"
In the article it is claimed (section "History") that "Regula Falsi appears as the Latinized version of Rule of False as early as 1690".

There is at least one book of Gemma Frisius, in which the terms appears already in 1545:

 * 1) https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k58333155/f63.double.r=.shift#

So the whole section on how the term evolved should probably be reworked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by P-flowgie (talk • contribs) 13:56, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Root finding example
Added a famous root finding problem from The Nine Chapters.
 * Liu Hui et al. The Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art Copyright (C) 263 Academy of Wei & Jin Dynasties
 * Shen Kangshen, The Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art, Oxford University Press 1999. Copyrighted in the United States until 2091

--205.175.118.10 (talk) 04:29, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Regula falsi


text:
Salu Digby

Salu Digby, also known as Shrinking Violet, Violet, and Atom Girl, is a superhero appearing in DC Comics, primarily as a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes in the 30th and 31st centuries. She is from the planet Imsk and has the power to shrink to tiny size, as do all Imsk natives.

Publication history
Shrinking Violet first appeared in Action Comics #276, and was created by writer Jerry Siegel and artist Jim Mooney.

Pre-Zero Hour
In the original pre-Zero Hour continuity, she was the thirteenth person to join the Legion of Super-Heroes. She first appeared in Action Comics #276 (1961). She tried out for membership at the same time as Sun Boy and Bouncing Boy. At that same tryout, Supergirl and Brainiac 5 joined the Legion. Shrinking Violet joined the Legion later, as did her fellow applicants Sun Boy and Bouncing Boy. Despite her shyness, Shrinking Violet, known as Vi to her teammates, served as an exemplary Legionnaire. She became romantically involved with Duplicate Boy of the Heroes of Lallor.

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During the "Five Year Later" storyline, it was strongly implied (but never explicitly stated) that she entered into a lesbian romance with another teammate, Lightning Lass. After the Legion's disintegration in the aftermath of the Paul Levitz-written era, Violet returned to Imsk and was drafted to fight in a war against Braal, the home planet of her fellow Legionnaire Cosmic Boy. This ended with the "Battle of Venado Bay", during which she found herself saving a grievously-injured Cosmic Boy from her own comrades; he, delirious with pain, did not recognize her, and attacked her face, destroying her right eye and leaving her with a long scar along her face. The two later reconciled, and although she had her eye repaired, she chose to keep her scar as a reminder.

Before the Legion reboot, one of Violet's legs was disintegrated and subsequently replaced with an artificial one.

In the "Legion on the Run" storyline, she operated under the alias Virus, as Legion leader.

During the "Five Year Gap" following the Magic Wars, Earth fell under the covert control of the Dominators, and withdrew from the United Planets. A few years later, the members of the Dominators' highly classified "Batch SW6" escaped captivity. Originally, Batch SW6 appeared to be a group of teenage Legionnaire clones, created from samples apparently taken just prior to Ferro Lad's death at the hands of the Sun-Eater. Later, they were revealed to be time-paradox duplicates, every bit as legitimate as their older counterparts. After Earth was destroyed in a disaster reminiscent of the destruction of Krypton over a millennium earlier, a few dozen surviving cities and their inhabitants reconstituted their world as New Earth. The SW6 Legionnaires — including their version of Shrinking Violet — remained. The "Five Years Later" stories were erased from the mainstream when the continuity was reset by Zero Hour.

Post-Zero Hour
Violet originally joined the Legion (as Shrinking Violet). In the final competition to become Imsk's representative, one of the other contestants, Micro, murdered the third finalist, Ion. After she apprehended Micro, Vi was gratefully accepted into the Legion, and despite her chronic shyness, quickly became close friends with the outgoing Kinetix who joined at the same time and who pushed her to become more outgoing. It was shortly after the depowered Kinetix had left on a search for new power artifacts that Violet came across the Emerald Eye of Ekron. Seducing her, it gradually allowed Vi to become more outgoing the way she wished to be to the point where she was elected Legion leader.

Keeping the Eye a secret after the mystically-repowered Kinetix returned (having been sent to search for the Eye) proved deadly. Innocently, she wished that all the Legionnaires would be granted their heart's desires. Unfortunately for Leviathan, his wish was for a heroic death which the Eye promptly arranged. Having had a longstanding crush on him, she was heartbroken by his death, and openly revealed the Eye's power in an attempt to revive him by forcing the Legionnaires to go on a galaxy-wide search for a means of resurrection.

It was only after she had remade the Legion, as well as the Earth, in the Eye's image and several accidentally freed Legionnaires tried to stop her that she realized it had all gone too far; she then commanded the Eye to "turn back time". Maliciously, the Eye took the opportunity to send half the Legion a thousand years into the past, while taking Violet herself into deep space to attempt to continue its brainwashing of its host. There, it sensed its prior master, Mordru (one of the few beings capable of using it against its will) had been reawakened. At this point, Violet and the Eye had merged, with the Eye being the dominant host. This joining was called Veye.

After she was freed from the Eye, and Mordru was defeated, Violet suddenly found herself with Leviathan's powers in addition to her own. Since then, she has alternated between using the codename LeViathan in tribute to him, and simply being known as Violet.

"Threeboot" continuity (2004–2009)
In this continuity, Shrinking Violet is also known as Atom Girl, a myth to all but the founding Legion members. She was considered a joke by the second wave of Legionnaires, until Brainiac 5 revealed her in the battle against Elysion of Terror Firma. She says she was exploring Brainiac 5's microverse and simply lost track of time. Invisible Kid used her name as a cover up to veil his tracks while spying on Brainiac 5. Subsequently, she assaulted Invisible Kid and after suspending him over the city, forgave him. She seems to quite like the image this gives her of being slightly crazy. She is fiercely loyal to Brainiac 5. Atom Girl overreacts to comments about her size and appears to feel hurt about appearing small in the eyes of the other Legionnaires, and seems unable to handle failure, as her rough facade only hides underlying self-image issues.

Post-Infinite Crisis
The events of the Infinite Crisis miniseries have apparently restored a close analogue of the pre-Crisis Legion to continuity, as seen in "The Lightning Saga" story arc in Justice League of America and Justice Society of America, and in the "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes" story arc in Action Comics. Shrinking Violet is included in their number.

In this continuity, which is basically a version of the "original" Legion had all of the retcons and manipulation of the timeline not occurred, Shrinking Violet is still at odds with Yera Allon, who joined the Legion as Chameleon Girl. It is revealed that her relationship with Lightning Lass from the Five Year Later gap had been incorporated into the main continuity and they are a lesbian couple.

Powers and abilities
As Shrinking Violet or Violet, Salu Digby has the ability to vary her size. Originally, she could only shrink (down to subatomic sizes, if necessary). In the post-Zero Hour reboot, the Emerald Eye bestowed her with Leviathan's power to grow to giant sizes as well. As Violet, Salu possesses expertise in espionage and unarmed combat.

Equipment
As a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes, she is provided with her own Legion Flight Ring. It allows her to fly in both the vacuum of space and other dangerous environments, and was additionally modified by Brainiac 5 to change size alongside her.

In other media

 * Salu Digby as Shrinking Violet appears in Legion of Super Heroes, voiced by Kari Wahlgren. Following minor appearances in the first season, she has a more prominent role in the second season, growing closer to Brainiac 5 while helping him build a prosthetic arm for Lightning Lad and journeying to the shrunken city of Kandor to defeat Imperiex.
 * Salu Digby as Shrinking Violet appears in Adventures in the DC Universe #10.
 * Salu Digby as Shrinking Violet appears in the one-shot comic Batman '66 Meets the Legion of Super-Heroes.

title: Salu Digby


text:
Brihadratha

Brihadratha (बृहद्रथ) was the founder of the Brihadratha dynasty, the earliest ruling dynasty of Magadha featured in Hindu literature. He established Magadha on the banks of the river Ganges, transferring the centre of power from Chedi, a neighbouring kingdom, to the newly settled Magadha. During his reign and that of his son Jarasandha, Magadha became a major power of the land. He had a daughter named Shashirekha who was the second wife of Dhrishtadyumna.

Brihadratha was the eldest of the five sons of Vasu, (also known as Uparichara Vasu) the Kuru king of Chedi and his queen Girika. His father was the ruler of Chedi and Brihadratha established Magadha at the border of Chedi Kingdom. He is mentioned in the epic Mahabharata and the Puranas. The name of Brihadratha is also found in the Rigveda (I.36.18, X.49.6).

Etymology
The name is a combination of bṛhat meaning 'great' or 'huge', and ratha meaning 'chariot'. Therefore, the name Brihadratha (बृहद्रथ; IAST: Bṛhadratha) can be assumed to be meaning "someone with a great/huge chariot".

Literature
Brihadratha established his dynasty in Magadha. Ripunjaya was the last in his lineage, who was killed by his minister in 682 BCE.

All the Puranas mention his sister Amna, as his successor. Kushagra was succeeded by his son Vrishava (or Rishava). Pushpavanta (or Pushyavanta or Punyavanta) was the son of Vrishava. Pushpavanta was succeeded by his son Satyahita (or Satyadhrita). Satyahita's son was Sudhanvana (or Sudharmana, Dharmatma, or Dhanusha). Dhanusha was succeeded by his son Sarva (or Urja or Jatu or Jahu or Jantu). Sarva was succeeded by his son Sambhava. According to the Agni Purana, Sambhava was succeeded by his son Jarasandha, the noted warrior king mentioned in the Mahabharata. However, all other Puranic genealogical lists mention the name of Brihadratha again between either Jantu and Jarasandha or Sambhava and Jarasandha. Jarasandha was succeeded by his son Sahadeva who was killed in the Kurukshetra War.

title: Brihadratha


text:
Tisserand (crater)

Tisserand is a lunar impact crater that is located just to the east of the larger crater Macrobius, to the northwest of the Mare Crisium. The crater was named after French astronomer François Félix Tisserand in 1935.

The rim of Tisserand has been eroded by impacts, with depressions in the southern and northeastern sides, and a nearly tangential curving valley cutting into the inner wall along the northwest. The interior floor is relatively level, with low ridges near the eastern and western inner walls. The eastern half of the floor has a slightly lower albedo than the western half, with the latter part being lightly coated by ray material from Proclus to the south.

Tisserand is a crater of Nectarian age.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Tisserand.

title: Tisserand (crater)


text:
Aleksandr Gerasimov (painter)

Aleksandr Mikhailovich Gerasimov (Алекса́ндр Миха́йлович Гера́симов; 12 August [ O.S. 31 July] 1881 – 23 July 1963) was a Soviet and Russian painter. He was a leading proponent of socialist realism in the visual arts, and painted Joseph Stalin and other Soviet leaders.

Biography
Gerasimov was born on 12 August 1881 in Kozlov (now Michurinsk) in Tambov Governorate, Russian Empire. He studied at the Moscow School of Painting, Sculpture and Architecture from 1903 to 1915. There he championed traditional realistic representational art against the avant-garde.

He served in the army during World War I and the Russian Civil War. Subsequently, he returned to his hometown to become a stage designer, helping to present plays glorifying the Revolution and the Soviet government.

In 1925, Gerasimov returned to Moscow and set up a studio, combining techniques of academic realism with an Impressionistic light touch. He favored a style known as heroic realism, which featured images of revolutionary leaders such as Vladimir Lenin as larger-than-life heroes. As Stalin tightened his grip on the country, Gerasimov concentrated on official portraits, such as Stalin and Voroshilov in the Kremlin, for which he won a Stalin Prize in 1941. He produced a large number of heroic portraits of Kliment Voroshilov, to the point that Nikita Khrushchev would later accuse Voroshilov of having spent most of his time in Gerasimov's studio, to the detriment of his responsibilities as People's Commissar of Defense.

Gerasimov's leadership of the Union of Artists of the USSR (replacing his nemesis and ironic namesake Sergey Vasilyevich Gerasimov) and the Soviet Academy of Arts was criticized as heavy-handed. He was at the forefront of the attacks against cosmopolitanism and formalism during the Zhdanovshchina. Although his flattering portraits of Soviet leaders and his political activities against artists who would not toe his line have gained him a reputation as a political hack, Gerasimov remained a genuine artist. Even at the end of his career, he continued to follow a moody, almost Impressionistic treatment of landscapes, at odds with the conventional nature of his official portraiture.

title: Aleksandr Gerasimov (painter)


text: Category:Towns in Saxony-Anhalt

title: Category:Towns in Saxony-Anhalt


text:
Category:The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle and Friends

 * The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show — the original animated television series by, and subsequent TV and film productions.

__NOGALLERY__


text:
User talk:192.31.106.36

Proposed deletion of Jack Kister

The article Jack Kister has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * Probably did "invent", or at least was on the team that invented something, but there no significant coverage on him that can be found in independent reliable sources.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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July 2012
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July 2013
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Sean Hannity
Do you have a reference from a reliable source to support the change from "conservative" to "neoconservative"? You'll need one source for that (at least). Please see: WP:V, WP:RS, then WP:NPOV. Cheers. Doc  talk  08:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013
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March 2014
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April 2015
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July 2016
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October 2016
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Billie Flynn
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Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

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September 2017
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Proposed deletion of Jack Kister

The article Jack Kister has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "NN engineer, fails the GNG and WP:BIO. No sources found (including those in the article) that provide more than namedrops. Article notability tagged for over a decade."

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.   Ravenswing     01:19, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Jack Kister for deletion
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Your help desk question
You have [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2021_January_21#Wikipedia's_liberal_bias_is_disgusting_and_transparent. a response]. It is recommended that you discuss what you have a problem with on the talk page of the article or articles you have a problem with. Unfortunately, Wikipedia goes by what reliable sources say, and conservatives tend to perceive reliable sources as having a liberal bias. You may prefer Conservapedia.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  16:45, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

title: User talk:192.31.106.36


text:
The Kennedys

The Kennedys may refer to:

 * The Kennedy family, an American political family
 * The Kennedys (museum), a German museum about the Kennedy family
 * The Kennedys (band), an American folk rock band
 * The Kennedys (miniseries), a Canadian miniseries about the Kennedy family broadcast in 2011
 * The Kennedys (TV series), a British sitcom

title: The Kennedys


text:
Fenham

Fenham is an area of the west-end of Newcastle upon Tyne, in the county of Tyne and Wear, England. It lies to the west of the city centre, and is bounded on the north and east by a large area of open land known as the Town Moor. To the south lies Benwell, West Denton lies to the west, Blakelaw and Cowgate to the north, and Arthur's Hill and Spital Tongues to the east. Until 1974 it was in Northumberland.

As of 2018, the area covers two wards of Newcastle: Wingrove Ward, and West Fenham Ward.

Fenham grew up as a separate township from Newcastle, lying on the western outskirts of the city. Much of the land originally belonged to religious charitable institutions, and there are covenant restrictions on the building of any licensed premises.

History
Fenham was part of the manor of Elswick in the Barony of Bolam until the lands were passed into the ownership of the Knights Templar in 1185. Following the suppression of the Templars in 1307 the manor of Fenham was transferred to the Knights Hospitaller in 1313. In the intervening years it is recorded that coal mines on the site were leased to the town's Corporation.

Fenham was formerly a township in the parish of Newcastle-St. Andrew, in 1866 Fenham became a separate civil parish, on 1 April 1914 the parish was abolished to form Newcastle upon Tyne. In 1911 the parish had a population of 1049. It is now in the unparished area of Newcastle upon Tyne.

Fenham Hall
Fenham Hall has its origins in the 14th century. Surrendered by the Hospitallers to the Crown at the Reformation, it was granted initially to the Riddell family before being acquired (along with much of the surrounding land) by the Ords in 1695. The present building was begun by John Ord in 1744; following his death the following year it was continued by his brother William. The Hall was expanded and rebuilt over subsequent decades, and now shows various stages of architectural development; the interior was gutted by fire in 1908. (Three years earlier the hall had been purchased as a school.)

St Mary's College
In 1905 Fenham Hall was purchased by the Society of the Sacred Heart to house a secondary school and a Teacher Training College: St Mary's. The hall itself accommodated the convent and dormitories; further buildings were added for the school and lecture rooms. The Training College closed in 1984, but Sacred Heart Catholic High School remains. Since the closure of St Mary's College the Hall and associated buildings have served as student accommodation for Newcastle University.

Fenham Barracks
Fenham Barracks was built in 1804-06 by James Johnson and John Saunders (architects at the Barrack Department of the War Office) on an 11-acre portion of the Town Moor leased from the Newcastle Freemen. Some ten years earlier, the Lord Mayor of Newcastle had written to the Home Secretary expressing local fears of sedition in the wake of the French Revolution. The barracks initially housed units of cavalry and artillery (capable of being deployed locally, as well as overseas during the Napoleonic Wars). Two-storey barrack blocks accommodated the men upstairs and the horses below.

In the 1870s the site was expanded to the north, with the addition of a hospital and other amenities, in the wake of the Cardwell Reforms (which also saw Fenham designated as the regimental depot of both the Northumberland Fusiliers and the Durham Light Infantry). Several of the old barracks blocks were demolished in the 1930s. There was further (almost comprehensive) demolition in the 1970s, when the northern part of the site was redeveloped by the Freemen to provide industrial units, a headquarters for the national Blood Transfusion Service and a new BBC Broadcasting Centre (for BBC Radio Newcastle and BBC Look North); proceeds of the sale help fund the maintenance of the Town Moor. Part of the site remains in military hands and it serves as headquarters for local Army Reserve units.

Modern developments
In 1895 Benwell and Fenham Urban District was created; in 1904 the area was incorporated into Newcastle upon Tyne.

Fenham did not become a residential area until the 20th century. Housing was built on a large scale when tram lines were extended from Central Station via Barrack Road. Further expansion was facilitated by the development of trolley buses and bus links to Westerhope. The Fenham Estates Company undertook residential development and by 1914 both sides Of Fenham Hall Drive had been built up; building continued in Wingrove Avenue, Wingrove Road and Wingrove Gardens up to 1920. The majority of house building up to 1940 was by private builders. City corporation building occurred after 1920 when there was a sale of Blackett-Ord lands and funding became available to purchase and develop areas around Silver Lonnen.

During the 1930s, a period of significant residential development and expansion, two churches opened in Fenham: the Arts & Crafts Church of St James and St Basil (architect: E. E. Lofting) was consecrated on 6 June 1931, having been funded by Sir James Knott in memory of his sons, James and Basil, killed in the First World War; the modernist Holy Cross Church (architect: Henry Hicks) was consecrated on Holy Cross Day 1936, having been funded by local landowner John Reginald Blackett-Ord.

Local amenities
Fenham possesses a public library on Fenham Hall Drive. It is a Grade II listed building. In December 2018 a drug and alcohol rehabilitation centre was opened in the library building. This has faced opposition from the Fenham Library Action Group (FLAG) and local residents; a petition against the development attracted 3,000 signatures. Fenham has an active residents group called Fenham Association of Residents that launched the FAR Community Centre in 2001. The FAR Community Centre offers activities for all age groups offering activities aimed at helping residents improve their self-esteem and skills. There was also a public swimming pool, since August 2005 run as a community organisation. The pool was shut in 2003, but in 2004 the Liberal Democrats took control of Newcastle City Council from Labour; one of their pledges was to re-open Fenham pool, which was achieved with substantial financial backing from residents of the local community. The pool was closed in July 2019.

The main local schools include Westgate Community College on West Road, Saint Cuthberts RC High School on Gretna Road and Sacred Heart RC High School. There are also some private schools situated in Fenham, one is Dame Allan's on Fowberry Crescent.

Ethnic minority
Today Fenham is best known in the local area for its large Asian community, with many of the businesses in the area being Asian-owned and including many specialty stores such as a halal butchers and Asian jewellery and clothing stores. There are many ethnic minority groups living side by side in Fenham, with a significant number of people being of either Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin.

Councillors
There are three councillors for the Fenham electoral ward: Helen McStravick, Matthew Myers and Marion Talbot, who all represent the Labour Party. Marion Talbot won election in May 2012, securing 1735 votes and beating her nearest rival, PJ Morrissey, on 643 votes. Talbot has since been elected to an Executive post of Performance and Resources Portfolio.

title: Fenham


text:
User talk:152.163.100.66

Proposed deletion of Schoolyard Safari

The article Schoolyard Safari has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * Article has no references and I don't think it meets WP:Notability. It is also very short.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Astros4477 ( talk ) 23:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Mafia gangs

A tag has been placed on Category:Mafia gangs requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz Read! Talk! 14:52, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

title: User talk:152.163.100.66