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Talk:An Unearthly Child

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page (including extensive discussions of page naming) have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see How to archive a talk page.

Copyright Duration of the Arc's episodes
According to Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, episodes of this storyline will be out of copyright in the United Kingdom as "wireless broadcasts" after 50 years of the end of the calendar year, December 31, 1963, and December 31, 1964. In other words, 2014 and 2015. I wonder if I'm wrong. The copyright owner is BBC; if I'm wrong, who is the copyright owner? I wonder if I must have misinterpreted. --George Ho (talk) 07:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

 * I'm not a copyright lawyer, so don't take my word as absolute truth, but as the original broadcast did not transmit with a copyright notice intact, doesn't that automatically place this episode in the public domain in the United States upon broadcast? Atomicblue (talk) 10:26, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No. See Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States 1 January 2013, under the headings "Works First Published Outside the U.S. by Foreign Nationals or U.S. Citizens Living Abroad" → "Works Published Abroad Before 1978", we find that since this is "Published in the US more than 30 days after publication abroad, without compliance with US formalities, and not in the public domain in its home country as of 1 January 1996", and none of the Special Cases apply, the copyright expires 95 years after publication date. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:00, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

 * I suspect it would be argued that the episodes are protected as a film, and the scripts as a literary or dramatic work, which were then subsequently broadcast, in contrast to the broadcast of e.g. an unscripted sporting event.

 * The scripts therefore are likely to be subject to the "life + 70" rule, where the life (or lives) in question will be Anthony Coburn (d. 1977) and perhaps also David Whitaker (d. 1980). So copyright would expire at the end of either 2047 or 2050. Copyright in the script would protect the rightsholder (ie the BBC) against derivative works based on the script (eg restagings or adaptations of it).

 * The filmed episodes would also be subject to "life + 70", the relevant life in question being that of the last-surviving principal director, author (here in fact meaning producer ) or composer. Composer Norman Kay died in 2001, and producer Verity Lambert in 2007, but director Waris Hussein is happily still very much alive; so copyright in the recorded episodes is likely to persist until at least 2083 or (one would hope for Waris) substantially longer.

 * And yes, a copyright duration of over 120 years is utterly insane. Jheald (talk) 08:23, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

 * (Note that for the purposes of the act, the CDPA (as amended) defines film as "a recording on any medium from which a moving image may by any means be produced" -- so that fully includes videotape, telerecordings, etc; and would seem even to cover recordings of unscripted sporting events, such as I raised above). Jheald (talk) 08:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

 * "... a copyright duration of over 120 years is utterly insane." The insanity is sometimes called the "Mickey Mouse rule." Years ago when Disney realized that Mickey Mouse was getting close to being in the public domain, they sent an army of lobbyists to Congress to get it extended so that they wouldn't lose out on more money. Who would have thought that Mickey was still worth so much cheese? __209.179.62.240 (talk) 15:48, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Nope that's a myth. British copyright is not dictated by Disney. It's this long because the principle of life of author + so many years is the underlying basis of European copyright law (which takes a very different philosophic approach to that prevalent in the US) and got to life + 70 years as part of an EU harmonisation that has become the global norm. The US has tended to steadily conform to international norms on intellectual property rather than going its own way because of old cartoons. Timrollpickering (talk) 15:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Stone Age
As far as I can recall, there is no reference in the story to this being set in the Stone Age or even on Earth at all? Episodes 2-4 could have been set on another planet.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 14:32, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Earth, agreed; but some of the characters (Kal and Za) definitely use stone tools - an axe and a knife - so whether Earth or not, they are people whose primary material for making tools is stone, so it's a stone age, even if not The Stone Age. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * You raise an interesting question T and you are correct that the WP:PRIMARY source - ie the episodes themselves - doesn't specify Earth. However, there are numerous WP:SECONDARY sources, including (I am pretty sure) some original production notes, that state that the setting is Earth. As to the "stone age" I concur with Redrose64's assessment of the situation. MarnetteD | Talk 19:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Plot section
The plot section states that, "The time machine retains its outward appearance when it travels through time, which Susan explains as a malfunction in the circuitry that is supposed to adapt its appearance to its surroundings." For the record, that sentence is misplaced. From what I remember of the episode, Susan only explains the circuitry malfunction after the TARDIS appears in the stone age - not when the TARDIS is still in Totters Lane, as the current placement of the sentence suggests. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 00:59, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Some questions answered, and Stef Anthony Coburn's contact/verification details here provided
Stef Stargazer (talk) 23:36, 15 August 2017 (UTC) Legitimately interested persons (perhaps those Wikipedia editors: contending and pedantically reversing my greatly more authoritative and easily verifiable edits) seeking to verify my identity (which seems to be the principal objection to my repeated accurate corrections to this otherwise erroneous page) are welcome to email me at either: or follow Stef_Anthony_Coburn on Twitter and DM as appropriate for a phone number if required.

As it has recently been implied that I might be just some lying 'dog' off the internet (thanks for that), only pretending (for *Grod alone knows what arcane reason) to be who I verifiably am, I'll be happy to provide whatever bona-fides are required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that I both am who I unequivocally am, and know what I unequivocally know, regarding both the life of my father, and his involvement in and contributions to that Grodawful bloody children's programme.

(*Grod: a phonetically acceptable substitute phoneme, allowing use of widely employed conversational phrases without otherwise implicit appeals or references to conceptually improbable putative deities.)

To laterally respond (whilst I'm here) to two of the other queries expressed: First, yes of course, the damned thing is set in our Terran 'stone age'. Second, to anyone wondering who it is who presently owns the copyright in 'Doctor Who and The Tribe of Gum? (the eponymous 'Gum' features in extant earlier drafts [carbons] of the script but was written out by the broadcast version)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Stef Stargazer (talk • contribs) 23:08, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your contribution. Alas, a tertiary source such as an encyclopaedia works by citing and summarising reliable secondary sources. Please publish your personal knowledge in a secondary source so that we can cite you. Thanks. DonQuixote (talk) 23:45, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for taking the time to post this story – it's fascinating stuff. However, it looks like you might have been misinformed regarding how Wikipedia gathers and sources information. Generally speaking, this site does not allow people to add information from their own lives and experiences. Instead, editors are expected to track down reliable external sources – newspaper or magazine articles, or posts on notable news websites – and use those to back up their edits. Any information that does not appear in one of these published sources can be removed. It's an imperfect system, as you can tell, but it's a necessary compromise to keep the site from being monopolised by people with fringe views or biases.
 * If you can arrange to have your story published elsewhere, in a magazine or at a reasonably notable website, we can use that as a source for the Anthony Coburn, Doctor Who, and An Unearthly Child articles (and if your information conflicts with the "official" version, then it can at least be presented alongside it so that readers can make up their own minds). Might I suggest contacting Doctor Who Magazine? They print every month (and in all honesty publish a great deal of filler material), so I imagine they'd be very interested in a first-hand account of the circumstances surrounding the show's creation from someone who was there (especially if you offer them a previously-unreleased interview with Verity Lambert!). Failing that, less notable (but still reliable enough to serve as a citation) outlets like doctorwhotv.co.uk may also be worth a try. At the very least, it might be worth posting the Lambert recording on YouTube, where it would suffice as a primary source for any information she divulged (eg, the reason behind the argument that scuppered The Masters of Luxor). But my main point is that this is more a job for a journalist – Wikipedia itself isn't an outlet for publishing new information, and the editors here don't have the authority or wherewithal to examine your evidence or make pronouncements. —Flax5 12:46, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Well said!
 * Cuddy2977 (talk) 10:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

William Hartnell's copy of The Tribe of Gum script on Antiques Roadshow
William Hartnell's copy of The Tribe of Gum script featured on the Antiques Roadshow on 31 December 2017:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09l255k

Starts at 48:34 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.175.67 (talk) 20:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Recent edits
There are a couple problems with the recent edits. First I have no idea why the "2" is being added to the alternate title nor is there any need to add extra quote marks. Second the parenthetical items are not needed. Several editors have removed these so the current consensus is to leave them out. They should not be added again until that consensus changes. MarnetteD|Talk 13:35, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced Information / Trivia
May I ask what parts of the following are considered unsourced or trivial? The information is almost entirely straight out of the text it's replacing, so if you're concerned about sourcing or trivia, you might as well delete the whole section. The only information that isn't in the original, I think, is the publishing companies to the two translated versions of the novel. That hardly seems trivial, and I don't know that a source is particularly important as it shouldn't be contentious. It's listed right there on the cover, which you can find with a Web search of the title.

The paragraphs may be fairly straightforward in their own right as a collection of words, but not for their function of gaining a quick understanding of specific, detailed information. You have to read through a large block of lopsided prose, largely focused on the oddities of various translations, phone cards, and other business, to grasp the more pertinent information about how one might access the material and in what form. For the kind of summary that a Wikipedia article serves to exhibit, this is less than an ideal informational structure.

The matrix scans quickly. As the reader who scrolls to the commercial releases section, what format are you looking for? DVD? Well, here's the same information that was buried in the paragraphs. This is what to look for. If anything, I think the below matrix suffers from inadequate information, as it adds almost nothing to the (inadequate) information already present on the page. This situation is best resolved not by deleting it and replacing it with a worse solution but by expanding it.

Or, you could ask the reader to puzzle over phone cards and out-of-print script books, then to assemble the scant information on VHS and DVD releases in their head. That could work too.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aderack (talk • contribs) 17:56, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

 * First of all, there are a few pieces of unsourced information added with the table: "version 1" and "version 2" of the unaired pilot being included in The Hartnell Years and The Edge of Destruction, respectively, on VHS is not included anywhere in the source; and the publishers of the translated books and the VHS releases has not been sourced either—as editors, we have the burden to provide sources, not state that "a Web search" will find the answer. Secondly, the purpose of prose (according to WP:MOS) is to "explain", not to provide a "quick understanding" of information nor a "kind of summary". I'm not sure what you're referring to when you describe the paragraph as "lopsided", and I don't see how it focuses on the "oddities" of the releases: as I see it, it provides the necessary information about the releases without useless rambling. You should also consider WP:WHENTABLE, which states that "if the information you are editing is not tabular in nature, it probably does not belong in a table"—considering the paragraphs are seven and four sentences, respectively, I don't see how they could be perceived as "tabular in nature". Lastly, Wikipedia is not a store; a script book is still relevant to our readers, whether it is out of print or not. The "scant information on VHS and DVD releases" is sufficient detail for a Wikipedia article without divulging into trivia. Or, we could explain every little detail about the releases. That could work too. – Rhain  ☔ 22:13, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:An Unearthly Child


text:
Edd Cartier

Edward Daniel Cartier (August 1, 1914 – December 25, 2008), known professionally as Edd Cartier, was an American pulp magazine illustrator who specialized in science fiction and fantasy art.

Born in North Bergen, New Jersey, Cartier studied at Pratt Institute. Following his 1936 graduation from Pratt, his artwork was published in Street and Smith publications, including The Shadow, to which he contributed many interior illustrations, and the John W. Campbell, Jr.-edited magazines Astounding Science Fiction, Doc Savage Magazine and Unknown. His work later appeared in other magazines, including Planet Stories, Fantastic Adventures and other pulps.

WWII
Cartier served in World War II, and he was severely wounded in the Battle of the Bulge. He returned to the United States and attended the Pratt Institute again on the G.I. Bill, receiving a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in 1953. In the post-war years, he continued providing illustrations for Astounding and also for Gnome Press and Fantasy Press.

However, low pay for such illustrations led Cartier into employment as a draftsman for an engineering firm during the 1950s. He worked for more than 25 years as an art director with Mosstype, a Waldwick, New Jersey, manufacturer specializing in printing machinery.

Cartier died at age 94 on December 25, 2008, at his home in Ramsey, New Jersey. He is interred at George Washington Memorial Park in Paramus, New Jersey.

Awards and reprints
Cartier was given the 1992 World Fantasy Lifetime Achievement Award. In 1996 and 2001, he was nominated for Retro Hugo Awards for artwork published in 1945 and 1951.

Edd Cartier: The Known and the Unknown is a 2000-copy limited edition hardcover published by Gerry de la Ree in 1977. Cartier's illustrations of L. Ron Hubbard's fiction were reprinted in Master Storyteller: An Illustrated Tour of the Fiction of L. Ron Hubbard by William J. Widder (Galaxy Press, 2003.).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Edd Cartier


text:
User:Lethe/blackhole

Black Holes are scary.

every black hole has a boundary called the event horizon. It's the point beyond which nothing can return. Not even light. If you were hanging out in your space ship just above the event horizon, swinging you legs out of the airlock, getting a good view of the galactic arm, and you accidentally let one foot swing into the event horizon, your leg would come back with a foot missing. You wouldn't even feel it go, because the pain signal can't escape the black hole.

There is a supermassive black hole at the center of every galaxy. These are typically millions of times more massive than our sun. Although the gravitational tidal forces from a regular sized black hole would crush you long before you approached the event horizon, so the above scenario with your foot would be unlikely, with supermassive black holes, the gravitational tidal forces are quite weak at the event horizon; your spaceship could cross the event horizon and you'd never even notice it. An interstellar Bermuda Triangle so to speak. You'd never notice it, but once you crossed the event horizon, you'd never be heard from again by the outside universe.

Once you cross the event horizon, all your particles approach the center of the black hole. the coordinate that describes the distance to the center becomes "time-like" so that your descent towards the center is as inevitable as the fact that tomorrow will follow today. The descent towards the center is the flow of time.

As you approach the center, the gravitational forces tend to stretch you out lengthwise (radial direction) and squeeze you in the horizontal directions. This force can be quite weak near the event horizon if the black hole is massive enough, but as you approach the center, this force gets stronger, and eventually approaches infinity. This is called the singularity.

No one is quite sure what happens at the singularity. If you've ever taken a physics class, perhaps you've seen Coulomb's Law? It looks like this: F=kqQ/r^2. That equation also has a singularity, at r=0. It's just a division by zero error. The singularity in Coulomb's law isn't real. When r gets small enough, you have to replace Coulomb's law by quantum mechanics, which replaces the singularity by something more well-behaved than division by zero (which can get the Math police knocking down your door)

At the moment, theories which can deal with quantum gravity are very speculative, so it's not clear what happens to the singularity from the more simple models of gravity once quantum effects are taken into account. Is it still there? Some of them can be taken care of. Other's it's not clear.

Once you've reached the singularity, every particle in your body will be separated (even your quarks, which are otherwise not allowed to be separate. A separate quark has never been seen on earth, they can only be found in black holes, quark stars, and at the Big Bang). Your constituent properties may go through a wormhole after that. The topology of the black hole allows it to connect through the singularity to another Universe.

What if two distant galaxies collided, and the power of the collision sent a couple of black holes scattering, and one passed by the Earth, just close enough to let the Earth get caught in its event horizon? I would say we should all panic and have "End of the World"-sex, but might not even know it were happening until it were too late.

Scary, right?

OK, any questions?

title: User:Lethe/blackhole


text:
XEAW-AM

XEAW-AM is a radio station located in Monterrey, Nuevo León, Mexico, with 10,000 Watts, owned and operated by Multimedios Radio and currently simulcasts XHAW-FM's La Gran AW romantic format. The station also transmits the Telediario newscasts from co-owned Multimedios Televisión. XEAW-AM broadcasts on a frequency of 1280 kHz.

Prior use of call sign
The XEAW-AM callsign first appeared on a border-blaster radio station located in Reynosa, Tamaulipas, across the Rio Grande (Río Bravo) from McAllen, Texas, USA. In the 1930s the station came under the control of Dr. John R. Brinkley who became famous for both his controversial treatments of sexual dysfunction and his operations of XER and XERA at Villa Acuña (modern-day Ciudad Acuña, Coahuila), opposite Del Rio, Texas.

In 1939, XEAW was purchased from Brinkley by Carr Collins, Sr., in a deal that was quietly assisted by then–Texas governor W. Lee "Pappy" O'Daniel. The station was used by Carr's brother Hal to sell his company's "Crazy Water Crystals," a product that was deemed fraudulent by the FTC in 1940. In 1943, Mexican authorities backed by soldiers seized the station and shut it down. In exchange for safe passage of his radio equipment out of the country, Carr Collins gifted a Mexican general with a transformer he needed for his factory.

History
Meanwhile, in Monterrey, XEX-AM on 1310 kHz started up in 1934; in 1937, Jesús Dionisio González (El Heraldo del Comercio, S.A.) bought the station from Don Federico Zertuche. The first transmission over XEX was a baseball game from Mexico City. In the early 1950s, the government requested the XEX callsign to build a national network, and in turn the station received the new callsign XEAW; at the same time, the station moved to 1280 kHz. In 1968, the Estrellas de Oro group expanded to a television station, XHAW-TV channel 12.

title: XEAW-AM


text: User talk:205.121.112.60

title: User talk:205.121.112.60


text:
Talk:Cinema of the United Kingdom/to do

General material needed on all periods:
 * Section needed on start of industry 1913–27.
 * What caused the production recession circa 1977?
 * British companies vs American investment/co-productions.
 * Image of iconic UK film (screenshot or poster) for each main section.

title: Talk:Cinema of the United Kingdom/to do


text:
User talk:Stude62/archive1

Archive 1
Hey Stude62, welcome back!

Since you're starting your talk page afresh, allow me to post the list-o-links as if this were a new talk page:

How to write a great article Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial What Wikipedia is not Wikiquette Wikipedia's NPOV policies Current polls Here are some tasks you can do:

Requests: Customs racketeering, George Hoyt, Haywood-Wakefield Band, IMDEX, Herbert O'Connor, Megan Burns, Wapasha, More... Stubs: Inner Temple, Spring (water), Divinity, Hardcover, Sous-préfecture, Brescia, Boulogne-sur-Mer, Ayr, More... Verify: B. J. Palmer, Proconsul, Siete Leyes, Belarusian ruble, Hedquist Productions, Inc., Rainbow Cup, Extrakd, Backlog... Update: Kildonan—St. Paul, Iraqi Transitional Government, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, University court, Prow, More... NPOV: Walburgia, Unassisted childbirth, International Politics and Kurdistan Workers Party, Nat Nykyruj, Newsviper, Backlog... Copyedit: Armoured Units of the Brotherhood of Nod, Margaret Trudeau, Sangam, Battle of Cannae, RPG Maker, Safari Zone, More... Wikify: Nehanda Nyakasikana, Senna (herb), Tigran Honents, Tanjong Katong Girls' School, Chungdahm Institute, FTTx, Backlog... Merge: Nuclear explosive, Ramapithecus, Jaded (Green Day), Classical electromagnetism, Japanese handicrafts, Emma-o, Backlog... Cleanup: The Dark Discovery, Reagan coalition, Zaklików, George Francis Lyon, Culture of Ancient Rus, Androids Saga, Backlog... Style: Judd Sergeant, Gavin Spittle, Skinny Legs and All, Development gateway, Dolby vs DTS, Cornelis de Bruijn, More... Expand: English drama, West Vancouver-Howe Sound, Crash test, Amethyst, Princess of Gem World, Antiemetic, More... Cleanup backlogs - Active fixup projects - Maintenance projects - Maintenance COTW: copyright problems Other: Requests for rollback poll - New deletion process Hope you enjoy your return,

— Asbestos | Talk 16:53, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents [hide] 1 = Re: I'm back, sort of 2 Image Tagging Image:Monnetthall.jpg 3 Re: Vandalism by 209.158.179.181 4 Image Tagging Image:1932piercearrow.jpg 5 Response re: '57 Chevy 6 Nice Article 7 Please review... 8 Pontiac Grand Ville 9 Buick Century 10 Important WikiProject Automobiles Discussion 11 Removal of images 12 Request for adminship 13 Re: Mary Monnett Bain 14 Thanks for your support in my RfA 15 Rambler image 16 John Paulk 17 More Ramblers 18 Tawkerbot2

[edit] = Re: I'm back, sort of Hi! Whoever you are, I am glad you are back! However, I am sorry I cannot remember where I got the opportunity to support you in the past. Are you not mistaking me with User:SamH or User:Sam Spade by chance? Cheers! Sam Hocevar 23:29, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging Image:Monnetthall.jpg Thanks for uploading Image:Monnetthall.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag, so its copyright status is therefore unclear. Please add a tag to let us know its copyright status. (If you created/took the picture then you can use gfdl to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use Fairuse.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know on the image description page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Otherwise, see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use. Thanks so much. --Secretlondon 23:20, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Vandalism by 209.158.179.181 Thanks for pointing him out. I've put a final warning on his user page. If he continues to vandalise either of us can simply put the following on the bottom of the Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism page to get him blocked:

—gorgan_almighty 15:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC) Thanks for addressing this. Whoever it is they've been very busy today. Stude62 01:00, 13 January 2006 (UTC) Just to update you, he seems to have stopped vandalising since I gave him that final warning (see User Contributions). Thanks again for your vigilance. :) —gorgan_almighty 10:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC) [edit] Image Tagging Image:1932piercearrow.jpg Thanks for uploading Image:1932piercearrow.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.
 * Restarted vandalising after a period of no edits. Has received final warning and ignored it. Please block. --Stude62 02:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use gfdl to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the image qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stan 22:42, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Stan, I took the image at the Pierce Arrow Owners Association show in Buffalo a couple years ago. At the time I up loaded the image I didn't know my way around the copyright tags. I've corrected it. Stude62 00:59, 13 January 2006 (UTC) [edit] Response re: '57 Chevy Just wanted to let you know that there's a response to your question on my Talk page. :-) --BRossow 03:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

There's another response posted on my Talk page. :-) --BRossow 15:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC) [edit] Nice Article Liked your article on the Wills Sainte Claire. My grandfather was one of C.H. Wills original team. He was not one of the Ford employees but was hired away from the Dodge Brothers. When Wills went belly up, my grandfather went back to Dodge and became the only (until his death in 1953) Dodge dealer in St. Clair County, Michigan.

Response to comment by Wtwilson3 - My pleasure - I like the fact that Wikipedia allows us to get information about the lesser known auto makes on line. Anything that you could contribute would probably make the article better. Again, thanks for the recoginition! Stude62 15:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC) I might have some old Wills info in storage somewhere, if I run across any of it, I'll let you know. If I can contribute, I will. --Wtwilson3 18:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC) [edit] Please review... ...and compare corrections that are made to articles before reverting to your previous versions. In many cases you have reverted to your versions that contain spelling, grammatical, date and factual errors that were corrected by other users. Best auto examples are "Pontiac Ventura" and "Dodge Custom 880".

Granted, but the facts are correct. Also, please sign your comments by using Stude62 02:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC); its simply a courtesy. Stude62 22:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC) [edit] Pontiac Grand Ville Per your request, I've looked over the article and tinkered with it a little. I had to go check my reference books to refresh my memory--it was never a very famous or significant model and I didn't recall a lot about it. It would probably make a good trivia question! RivGuySC 03:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buick Century You are so right that that one needs attention. The information on the 1930s models is fairly useful, but there's too much trivial data and it's badly written. I had been hoping that the contributor who put it in would come back and shape it up, but it looks like that's not going to happen. I may wade into it eventually, but not right now. RivGuySC 04:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I hit up the intro andthe 1936-42 and 1954-58 vehicles. Hope it looks better, Stude62 02:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC) [edit] Important WikiProject Automobiles Discussion Hello! As a Wikipedia:WikiProject Automobiles member, I just thought you might want to input your opinions on an important discussion we're currently having about whether articles regarding similar vehicles should be merged into one or split by brand. If you would like to comment or read further, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#Articles of Similar Vehicles. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and feedback. Airline 23:52, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of images Sorry--Shizhao 13:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for adminship Hi! We've had some good interactions in the past with various car-related articles and I wanted to alert you to my recent nomination for adminship. If you have any feelings on the nomination one way or the other, I'd appreciate your input on the voting page at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Brossow. Thanks! ⇒ BRossow T/C 16:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Mary Monnett Bain I've responded to your questions on the article talk page. Also, please review Wikipedia:Categorization/Categories and subcategories when you can. Thanks...KHM03 21:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your support in my RfA Just wanted to drop a quick note — nothing fancy! — to say thanks for your vote of confidence in my recent request for adminship. As you might have noticed it was unsuccessful; most objections related to my lack of experience. While I disagree that nearly 4000 edits, whether spread over two months or ten, constitutes a lack of experience, I respect the vote and will try again at a later date. I'm disappointed that I won't be able to help out in the meantime as much as I could with admin access, but again I appreciate your support and hope I'll have it the next time I am nominated. ⇒ BRossow T/C 18:50, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, heck - any time. Believe me when I say its really been a pleasure working with you on the auto project. And I'm confident that the next time around you'll get the nod. I think they just want to see if you hold up under the time. But again, if comes up, let me know. Stude62 20:28, 6 March 2006 (UTC) [edit] Rambler image I noticed you retagged Image:Rambler1908.jpg as a "promotial image". As something published before 1923 in the USA, it is in the public domain by US law. The previous tag of "PD" was the prefered tag for the situation when the image was uploaded; I have retagged it as "PD-US". Yes, it is a promotional image, but it is also public domain; if more than one tag can legitimately be applied to an image, the more free one is prefered. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 13:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The change in tag was made because the other PD tag was noted as being no longer preferable. Thanks for fixing it in a better format. Stude62 13:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC) [edit] John Paulk I deleted it because the link was dead, but i just added another one. Crumbsucker 13:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Ramblers Thanks for your work on Rambler automobiles, but it looks like some problems crept in we need to take care of. On Rambler, the text now does not include any acknowledgment of any Rambler automobile before 1950, and lacks info on what link anyone looking for such info should persue. Also, it looks to me like Rambler (automobile) is largely a copy & paste duplicate of Rambler (car). Retitling is fine, copy and pasting other peoples work to a new title is not as article history is lost; see Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page. This needs to be redone as a proper page move. If you need assistance in taking care of this, feel free to ask me or another admin. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 14:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The move of the text was done incorrectly, and I do need your help to do so. The move was made to bring the text more in line with conventions of the Wikipedia auto project - we do not generally use the term (car), but do use (automobile). The article for the pre- 1950 Rambler needs to be listed, and then rewritten into an article of its own as it was never a product of Nash, nor AMC, but Jeffery. While Nash bought Jeffery, the car deserves its own break-out article. So I will need you help in correcting this. Stude62 00:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC) [edit] Tawkerbot2 No worries, you're not on any sort of blacklist or anything, it was just an automatic revert, if you change it it shouldn't revert you again. The move button on any page is your friend, it won't tag you for that :) -- Tawker 00:23, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stude62"

Stude62 02:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Stude62/archive1


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tuulk

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 02:46, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

Tuulk
Wikipedia is not a means for promoting pet neologisms. Needless to say, the "motto" entirely fails the Google test. Uncle G 17:26, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Delete. Josh Cherry 01:29, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Tuulk isn't a pet neologism, and we don't feel it to be appropriate that tuulk would be deleted on recommendation of some people who've never been in the eastern part of the Netherlands were it's in common use. And since when is google the criterium for testing things that happen in the real world? Keep tuulk listed!!! Hilbrand Bos

 * It's not the only criterion, but it's been a criterion for some time. And it's a good one, too. See Google test. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:42, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete, neologism, borders on patent nonsense -- Ferkelparade π 10:35, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep,Tuulk has nothing to do with neologism. Keep Tuulk listed.

 * An Encyclopedia without a phenomenon like tuulk is not a real encyclopedia, so keep this phenomenon in it!!! spellie 16:07, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * KEEP THIS, this things are intressant!!

 * Comment: both votes above added by User:195.85.147.43, who also saw fit to remove my delete vote. The other two anon voters have not contributed anything except their keep votes, User:spellie, who allegedly signed one vote, has no contributions at all. I smell sockpuppetry. -- Ferkelparade π 15:22, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete, not yet familiar enough to English speakers to be encyclopedic in an English-language encyclopedia. The Dutch-language Wikipedia currently lacks any article on Tuulk. Try submitting it there. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:42, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. Maybe Dutch Wiktionary, nothing more. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:22, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. Wrong language, folks. As soon as it becomes well known in the English language world, call me :) --Woohookitty 00:34, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete - I am Dutch and I've never even heard of it (and Holland isn't that large, really). 212.206.63.108 10:33, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Keep - The question should be whether Tuulk has something to add to your knowledge. You can discuss the importance for tuulk being incorporated in the encyclopedia, but what you should really care about is that one specific person that wants to know what tuulk is, because he hears it all the time in the that specific part of Holland. I know that it isn't a strong argument for many of you never have wondered what tuulk is. Anyway, I'm glad that everyone in this discussion - also in the english world - knows what tuulk is. That's a beginning. Hilbrand Bos

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tuulk


text: User talk:144.132.0.112

title: User talk:144.132.0.112


text:
Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Railroad

The Gulf, Mobile and Ohio was a Class I railroad in the central United States whose primary routes extended from Mobile, Alabama, and New Orleans, Louisiana, to  St. Louis and Kansas City, Missouri, as well as Chicago, Illinois.

From its two parallel lines through eastern Mississippi, the GM&O also served Montgomery and Birmingham, Alabama, as well as Memphis, Tennessee.

History
The Gulf, Mobile and Northern Railroad was created as the reorganization of the New Orleans, Mobile and Chicago Railroad in 1917. The GM&O was incorporated in 1938 to merge the Gulf, Mobile and Northern Railroad and the Mobile and Ohio Railroad, which was accomplished in 1940. The GM&O later bought and merged the Alton Railroad in 1947.

Isaac B. Tigrett, a native of Jackson, Tennessee, was president of the GM&N from 1920 and of the GM&O from 1938 to 1952, and oversaw the development of the road from a nearly bankrupt operation into a thriving success. He was the great-uncle of Hard Rock Cafe founder Isaac Tigrett, also a native of Jackson.

From 1952 to 1972 the headquarters of the GM&O were in Mobile, Alabama at 104 St. Francis Street. The President of the GM&O Railroad during this period was G. Paul Brock. The Railroad retained the passenger terminal at Beauregard Street for additional offices.

At the end of 1944 GM&O operated 1950 miles of road, including NOGN; at the end of 1950 it operated 2898 route-miles. At the end of 1970 route mileage was 2734 (3946 miles of track); GM&O reported 8285 million ton-miles of revenue freight and 44 million passenger-miles for that year.

The GM&O Railroad was the first "large" railroad in the United States to replace all its steam locomotives with diesels.

On August 10, 1972 the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Railroad merged into the Illinois Central Railroad, forming the 9600-mile north-south Illinois Central Gulf Railroad. In 1988, the railroad dropped the "Gulf" from its name, reverting its name to the Illinois Central Railroad. In 1996 Illinois Central spun off some of its redundant trackage, including most of the former Gulf, Mobile and Ohio. Most of this trackage was acquired by other railroads.

On February 11, 1998 the Illinois Central was purchased by the Canadian National Railway (CN) with the integration of operations beginning on July 1, 1999.

Passenger Operations
In addition to the GM&O's most popular train, the streamlined Rebel (New Orleans - Jackson, Tennessee 1935-1941; extended to St. Louis thereafter), the railroad also operated a number of other named trains. These include:

 * Alton Limited (later simply The Limited): (Chicago - St. Louis)
 * Abraham Lincoln: (Chicago - St. Louis)
 * Ann Rutledge: (Chicago - St. Louis) (operated 1937-1947 by the Alton, 1947-1971 by GM&O, 1971-2009 by Amtrak)
 * Gulf Coast Rebel: (originally Mobile - Union, Mississippi, later extended to St. Louis)
 * The Mail: (Chicago - St. Louis)
 * Midnight Special: (Chicago - St. Louis)
 * Night Hawk: (St. Louis - Kansas City)
 * Prairie State Express: (St. Louis - Chicago)
 * 'Rebel': (St. Louis - New Orleans)

Preservation

 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio caboose #2825 is on display in Kiroli Park in West Monroe, Louisiana.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio caboose #2867 is privately owned and on display in Rienzi, Mississippi.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio caboose #2951 is on display in downtown Madison, Mississippi.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio caboose #2954: re-numbered by ICG as #199044, preserved by the Monticello Railway Museum in Monticello, Illinois.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio caboose #2994 is on display at the depot in downtown Corinth, Mississippi.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio caboose #2997 is on display at the depot in downtown Booneville, Mississippi.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio SD40 #950: the first SD40, currently in Illinois Central marking as #6071, donated to the Monticello Railway Museum in Monticello, Illinois.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio GP35 #631 currently owned by the SARM in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. The unit is non-operational and in much disrepair.
 * Gulf, Mobile & Ohio parlor-observation #5998 from the 1935 "Abraham Lincoln" train is on display at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri.
 * Gulf, Mobile & Ohio EMD AA Boxcab #1200 is currently on display at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri as B&O 50.
 * Gulf, Mobile, & Ohio ALCO RS1 #1053 is currently preserved at the Danbury Railroad Museum in Danbury, Connecticut as New Haven #0673.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Pullman "Judge Milton Brown" is on display and used by American Family Radio at the Casey Jones Village in Jackson, Tennessee.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio #580, originally Gulf, Mobile and Northern #425, is currently operational at the Blue Mountain and Reading Railroad in Port Clinton, Pennsylvania.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio F3 #800A is currently inoperable on display as the Seaboard Air line #4033 at the Gold Coast Railroad Museum, in Miami, Florida.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio F3 #883A which was later rebuilt and converted into an FP10 by MBTA and renumbered to #1153 is currently on display at the Edaville Railroad, in South Carver, Massachusetts.
 * Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Azalea Passenger car located in Liberty, New Jersey 1421 US-46 visible on Google Maps.

In Popular Culture
Sonny Boy Williamson recorded the song GM&O Blues in 1945.

A GM&O EMD E7 and passenger cars were featured in the 1967 film In the Heat of the Night.

In popular music, the GM&O line is referenced in Adrian Belew's "The Rail Song," a nostalgic song about the heyday and subsequent decline of the American railroads. Originally on 1983's Twang Bar King album, the song can also be found on the Desire of the Rhino King compilation and in an acoustic version on both The Acoustic Adrian Belew and the Salad Days compilation.

The album cover of the 1989 Traveling Wilburys song End of the Line features an upside down photograph of the Ann Rutledge at Lincoln, Illinois in 1953.

title: Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Railroad


text:
Talk:Punycode

Untitled
First, the linked "Punycode Exploit" should link to the advisory text, not the simple demonstration page. Secondly, this is not an exploit of punycode so much as it is an exploit of the fact that not running domain names through nameprep is asking for spoofing problems.

I would change the paragraph from:

Punycode is easily exploitable, and for an example see Punycode exploit

to:

Note that browsers which fail to run a string through nameprep before using it as a DNS name are vulnerable to spoofing exploits, as in Punycode spoof.

I suspect is should read more like:

The fact that Unicode and Punycode strings result in homographs (strings   which are different but visually indistinguishable or almost so) is a matter of    some concern. Phishing (a class of social engineering exploits) will make use of   homographs like "www.paypa1.com" (note: this containst the digit, 1 ("one") rather    than the letter, l ("ell").

I'd like to add some links to the discussion of "petnames" (which I've read from the cap-talk mailing list that's maintained by Jonathan Shapiro, creator of EROS).

 * Introduction to PetNames
 * cap-talk Archives for Feb, 2005

Unforunately I, User:JimD, lack the time at the moment to do this properly. So, I'm tacking this in here in the hopes that it will help me remember or that someone here will take the ball and run with it. JimD 22:43, 2005 Feb 22 (UTC)

With the last two words an external link to the exploit.

 * You are right that this isn't a Punycode exploit: it's an IDNA exploit, and it's mentioned in the security section of RFC 3490. But I think you must be wrong about Nameprep - as far as I know, these browsers are already using Nameprep, and Nameprep has no effect on the domain label in question (pаypal). --Zundark 18:59, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * D'oh! - You're right, my bad. Nameprep wouldn't help since Unicode NFKC does not, in fact, normalize Cyrillic "а" to Latin "a".  So never mind the suggested rephrasing.  Instead, someone should rephrase it to mention that this is an IDNA problem or, better yet, move this paragraph and link to the IDNA page.

The explanation for how Punycode is supposed to work is unintelligible to me, and I don't consider myself particularly dull about technical matters. The main problem is that the author doesn't seem to have a grasp of where to begin and ends up explaining the thing in bits and pieces. Can someone replace this with something more coherent? 82.92.119.11 8 July 2005 17:17 (UTC)

 * The article contains a lot of information that is actually about IDNA rather than Punycode, and I think this is what makes it so confusing. There's no reason for this IDNA information to be here, since it's already in the appropriate article. Much of this information has been removed before, but it just gets added back in a different form. So I don't really hold out much hope for this article, and don't currently consider it worth the effort of working on. Fortunately, the article does have a link to RFC 3492, which is what people need to read if they want to understand Punycode. --Zundark 8 July 2005 18:24 (UTC)

Patent issues
Is Punycode patented? --84.61.51.126 13:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Nobody's asserted a patent against it as far as I know. Given the nature of the patent system, that's the most anyone can say for certain. --Alvestrand 15:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

How about showing some examples?

Examples
From the text its not really clear about how exactly you get back to the name and even if its possible. Or how the position of the character is encoded. Since currently it looks to me as if "bücher" "bächer" "bchüer" etc. all get the same bcher-kva code??
 * I've rewritten the first part of the encoding description based on reading the rfc, more work is still needed though. Plugwash 01:45, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't "bücüher" be punycoded as "bcher-kvaba", and "bücherü" as "bcher-kvaea"? Moreover, should "ýbücher" be punycoded as "bcher-kvafa" or as "bcher-fakva"? (are both possible?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.145.147.38 (talk) 18:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Someone more knowledgable than I should explain why the non-ascii character "ü" being insertes at various places WITHIN an ascii string magically transmutes to "ý" if it is inserted BEFORE the string. It all sound like an obfuscation of alchemy to me.    — Xojo   (talk)  01:42, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's just because "ý" (U+00FD) is the next code point after "ü" (U+00FC). No alchemy there! — Sebastian 07:13, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Encoding principles example
The heading "Encoding procedure" says:

"The 'bücher' example given above . . ."

There is no "bücher" example "above" in the current form of the article.

This is probably an editorial anomaly in the wake of rearrangement of the article.

Le crayon rouge ne dort jamais.

Doug Kerr 17:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've reworded it. --Zundark 10:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I did not understand this article but had no problem to understand Punycode from reading the RFC. I will reorder and enhance this article by. Starting with a quick description of the reasons why this particular encoding scheme is used and following the explanation order in the RFC, which start out with the decoding, which is far easier to understand then the encoding. Roeschter 19:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Bootstring
'Bootstring' redirects here, even though it doesn't strike me as synonymous to 'Punycode' (Punycode, going by the title of ref1, Punycode: A Bootstring encoding of Unicode for Internationalized Domain Names in Applications (IDNA), seems to be a kind of Bootstring).

Could someone with more knowledge on the matter either create a Bootstring article describing what that is or make it clear that Bootstring indeed is merely a synonym? I'm curious which/what it is.

-pinkgothic (talk) 12:42, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

 * The section "Encoding of non-ASCII character insertions as code numbers" needs a complete rewrite. Someone went out of their way to use computer science jargon. 188.103.59.142 (talk) 16:24, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Ambiguity in separation of ASCII characters
Section Separation of ASCII characters says "Since it is a basic character, the ASCII hyphen may still appear in the string before this additional character, but the addition does not cause ambiguity". But precisely because the hyphen may still appear, we have a problem: Suppose you wanted to convert the string "bcher-kva" to a label - wouldn't that be just the same, thus rendering the label "bcher-kva" ambiguous? — Sebastian 07:19, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

 * The description appears to be incorrect: a hyphen is always added (unless there are no basic characters at all) so "bcher-kva" would be encoded as "bcher-kva-". See example (S) in RFC 3492. (But in practice Punycode is hardly used outside of IDNA, and IDNA wouldn't apply Punycode to such a string anyway.) I've undone 195.242.190.233's changes of 17 November 2010, which introduced the error. --Zundark (talk) 09:58, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! — Sebastian 10:28, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

The RFC Website Has Changed
The current link to the Punycode RFC didn't work; it was redirected to an IETF home page.  is the new link to the Punycode RFC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CTMacUser (talk • contribs) 06:37, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

WHY IS IT CALLED PUNYCODE?
Anyone know 179.98.225.10 (talk) 14:36, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Because it is a PUN on "UNIcode" (Unicode) Uni rhymes with puny Firejuggler86 (talk) 21:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

 * Do you have a source? Your comment here was just cited in a Stack Exchange Q&A. If we had a reputable source, I could add this info both to the Q&A and to the Wikipedia article. Maxlaumeister (talk) 23:34, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems to be so obvious that nobody said it explicitly. Even the Wiktionary article on Punycode just says "Blend of puny + Unicode" under etymology, but without any source. Someone could perhaps ask Adam M. Costello, the inventor of Punycode, personally. He seems like a really nice guy. But asking him doesn't directly give us a reference, unless the question is answered publicly on the internet somehow. --Jhertel (talk) 22:19, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I just emailed Adam directly and published an article on my blog with our exchange. He mentioned three specific ways that he believes it's "puny"; he didn't mention "pun" at all. I'll let someone else determine how best to incorporate this info into Wikipedia. Maxlaumeister (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Limited to 35!
What will happen if the number of states to be skipped will get larger than 1.03e40=35*34*...*2? Unlikely given the application, but there is no answer given inside the article, as far as I've understood. Am I correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.82.199.28 (talk) 15:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

More examples are needed, especially pure ASCII examples and corner cases
I must admit that I understand very little of this article, especially because there are almost no examples. What I especially miss is how to encode pure basic ASCII strings in Punycode. It only seems to focus on strings that include at least one non-ASCII character, probably because Punycode was created specifically for handling this subset of Unicode strings. But I would assume that Punycode is also able to encode pure basic ASCII strings? At least, that's what the first sentence in the article claims: "Punycode is a representation of Unicode", which means it can handle all strings including basic ASCII strings which is a subset of all Unicode strings. If that is the case, how does it do that? For instance, what is the Punycode encoding of "London"? My guess is that it would be "London", but I can't find that information in the article; the section "Separation of ASCII characters" seems to say that "London" would be encoded as "London-" ("If any characters were copied, an ASCII hyphen is added to the output"), but I find that quite odd. Also, what is the encoding of the empty string? Is it the empty string? Simple examples are needed, preferably a table that especially lists both very common cases like pure basic ASCII strings ("a", "abc", "London", "A string with spaces" if a space is a basic ASCII character) as well as corner cases like the empty string (""), the string "3", the string "-", and a string consisting of a single non-basic ASCII letter such as "ü".

As a first step, though, I would simply add the example of "London" next to the mentioned example of München. But I still don't know the Punycode encoding of "London". I can't even use an online Punycode converter to figure it out, as those I have tried all seem to get it wrong, as they all add "xn--" in the beginning of encodings of non-ASCII strings, which does not seem to be part of Punycode (they seem to mistakenly mix in Nameprep, which is not part of Punycode, in the process).

--Jhertel (talk) 16:11, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

As a follow-up, the table below shows what I would like too see the encodings of, as that shows corner cases and gives a quick overview. I have filled out the only one I know the answer to (from the article); the rest are marked :

I just got the idea to use the Python library  with the encoding "punycode", which should be very trustworthy, so I will return soon with the actual punycodes for the table.

--Jhertel (talk) 18:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Okay, so here is the table:

It was created by this Python (3.8) script:

".format(s)

def print_row(s, description): print("| {} || {} || {}".format( nowrap(code(s)), nowrap(code(punycode(s))), description)) print("|-")

def print_table(examples): print('{| class="wikitable"') print('|-') print('! Input !! Punycode of input !! Description of input') print('|-')

for (s, description) in examples: print_row(s, description)

print('|}')

print_table(examples)

--Jhertel (talk) 19:04, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Wait a moment…
So, technically, this means that https://xn--xn--wikipedia--.org redirects to https://xn--wikipedia-.org and then to https://wikipedia.org because the conversion method still works even if the original domain is LDH? 154.5.234.189 (talk) 04:55, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

There is no "redirect" at all. The browser will try to use the name exactly as you entered it. An un-cautious browser might display "xn--xn--wikipedia--.org" as "xn--wikipedia-.org" but would always use "xn--xn--wikipedia--.org" when communicating over the network because that's what you typed in. And real browsers won't decode your example even for display because it doesn't pass the smell test; it looks like you're trying to exploit something. Real browsers only decode a domain for display if that decode results in a string that utilizes exactly one non-ASCII writing system. Your example uses zero. Other phishing attempts use more than one. 108.246.204.20 (talk) 03:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Section "Encoding of non-ASCII character insertions as code numbers" needs revamp
Maybe the section `Encoding of non-ASCII character insertions as code numbers` should have the hard to follow text that describes the state changes removed, and instead have a proper state machine as a formal definition with a state graph inserted and/or just pseudo code? Explaining it in plain English was worth a try, but I can only surmise that sadly I feel like it didn't really succeed. At least for me it isn't really possible to decipher from the text how the encoding actually works. 2003:EA:7F11:DE00:BC43:6BFF:FE40:1BA5 (talk) 12:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Punycode


text:
Talk:Inspiration

Does anyone have any information about where inspiration comes from? Is there any research out there that looks at the importance of different personal experiences in stimulating artistic creativity?

Different things inspire different people. Bush inspired me to write about is idiotic policies for example.

There may be vandalism in the entry for Inspire magazine's attribute to SITE.Halconen (talk) 19:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

How does "Artistic Inspiration" and "Creative Inspiration" differ and why does it need two separate bullet points? I would suggest unifying them to
 * Creative or Artistic inspiration, moment of invention or boost in artistic production — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.224.179 (talk) 09:35, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Inspiration


text: Category:Linguists from Australia

title: Category:Linguists from Australia


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ahmet

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Redirect. Rje 23:53, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

Ahmet
Classic attempt to justify a vanity page. Uncle G 17:29, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Delete or redirect if this is a common spelling. The creator have also added this name to Ahmed and Mustafa. You get some hits on the name for this person. Jeltz talk  19:26, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable genealogy, vanity. Megan1967 06:57, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Ahmed. -Sean Curtin 00:22, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Sean Curtin's suggestion looks good to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:22, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ahmet


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahmud

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. dbenbenn | talk 17:58, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Mahmud
Classic attempt to justify a vanity page. Uncle G 17:29, 2005 Feb 7 (UTC)
 * Cleanup. Create a disambiguation page with links to Mahmud I, Mahmud II, Mahmud Shah (ruler of Afghanistan), Mahmud of Ghazni etc. Obviously, remove the vanity part (prophet stuff). utcursch 06:11, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * I've cleaned up a bit. utcursch 08:20, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, genealogy, vanity. Megan1967 06:58, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup as per Utcursch's suggestion. Raven42 19:03, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * utcursch's suggestion looks good to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:21, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahmud


text:
Talk:Robert K. Merton

Untitled
I started wikifying the large volume of new material that was recently added, after a quick Google check of a few phrases to see if it could be a copyright violation. The searches turned up empty. Spalding 17:30, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

What would be a concrete example of Retreatism? Hugo Dufort 20:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture
That picture doesn't look like Merton AT ALL. I think it is better to have no picture, or a non-free picture, than to have one which looks like it was drawn in MS Paint and has little relationship to the subject. --24.147.86.187 01:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) I agree. That picture is ridiculous.  There's nothing on the image page to suggest that it's relevant in any way.  We should remove it from the article, and the picture should probably be deleted as an orphan.  --Hugh Charles Parker (talk - contribs) 10:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, indeed it seems like picture OR :) Suggested WP:IfD.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Why is there an MS Paint drawing of him? That's absolutely ridiculous.  128.8.210.123 22:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Removing memetics category
I am removing the memetics category from this article since you learn no more about the article's contents from the category and v.v. Since so many things may be memes we should try to keep the category closely defined in order to remain useful. Hope you're okay with that. The link to meme would be enough I suggest. Facius 10:59, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Communalism/communism
Why has Merton's own term 'communism' been replaced with 'communalism'? Writing in the 40s Merton knew very well what was meant by the term and chose it deliberately; retrofitting today's post-McCarthyist PC-ism onto him is silly. I can understand why this is done in the CUDOS article - since that is about the ideas as used now - but not in an article supposed to be about Merton himself Marinheiro 15:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * i have a copy of the original article and currently published version, both are communism, so i changed it back. --Buridan 15:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ziman (2000) used 'communalism' (and also added 'originality' which is apparently a reinterpretation of 'Mertonian norms' called 'CUDOS principles'). Also re: Merton knowing what he meant to say, he cites Albert Bayet in defining the meaning of scientific 'ethos', whose biography shows his involvement in various leftwing political groups including the 'Union Progressiste', which is apparently aligned with the French Communist Party. --Louis Maddox 15:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

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Request for editing
Would one of you able people please proofread the section on middle-range theories and also do some editing to improve the language of particularly the last half of the section to make it more readable. Thanks in advance :-). Henrykwdk (talk) 13:21, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Broken references
Please could a previous editor of this article take a look at fixing the references — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 18:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Robert K. Merton


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Strike raid

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 02:45, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

Strike raid
Some kind of non-notable game move, I take it? Deb 17:31, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Yes it's one of several special attacks in Kingdom Hearts but it's not mentioned there and there is nothing useful to merge. Kappa 18:28, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable fancruft. Megan1967 08:42, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text: User talk:65.68.242.250

title: User talk:65.68.242.250


text:
Eli Hagen

Eli Engum Hagen (born 26 October 1947 in Dombås, Oppland) is a Norwegian television presenter and the wife and secretary of the Norwegian politician Carl I. Hagen, former leader of the Progress Party. In recent years she has also made a name for herself as a television personality. The Norwegian author Jan Martin Iversen credited her with a significant role in the development and survival of Progress Party in his 1998-book about the first 25 years of the party.

Mishap while driving
In November 2001 she also caused headlines when, after dropping off her husband at an official dinner at the Royal Palace in Oslo, she accidentally drove her Volkswagen Passat down the steps in front of the palace, with the political press corps as shocked onlookers. The following morning Dagbladet - one of the largest newspapers in Norway - filled its frontpage with a picture of the tire marked stairs and the headline "Eli took the stairs - with her car".

Autobiography
In 2006 she created more headlines with the release of her autobiography Elskerinne, sekretær og hustru - Gift med Carl (Mistress, Secretary and Wife - Married to Carl), where she delivered frank observations and scornful descriptions of active, retired and even dead politicians. In the same book she mentioned her embarrassing drive down the palace stairs, and admitted she nearly "died of shame".

Career in television
In 2008 she had her debut as regular co-host of the talkshow Studio 5, a Norwegian version of The View. Since this she has become quite an active TV personality, appearing in numerous television shows, often displaying her outspoken nature mixed with irony and self ridicule.

title: Eli Hagen


text: User talk:195.222.37.209

title: User talk:195.222.37.209


text:
Talk:Modesty Blaise

Old, unsectioned comments
I'm not surprised that O'Donnell doesn't want others to write about Modesty Blaise -- he doesn't strike me as an overly possessive man, but every time he's handed over the writing to someone else, they've made a horrible mess of it. Wouldn't you get tired of it after a while? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steverapaport (talk • contribs) 17:33, 7 February 2005 (UTC)

I had heard that Modesty Blaise was, at least in one incarnation of this fictional character, prone to removing her top to "stun" opponents. This might be a confusion with a burlesque version of the Blaise comics done by another, but still I think I recollect reading about this technique of hers.

 * Sort of true, Modesty certainly uses whatever comes to hand when fighting. The idea would be to put an opponent off balance by appearing vulnerable. There is an interesting interview with Peter O'Donnel on the 'My Name is Modesty' dvd where he talks about a fight squence in 'The Silver Mistress' and also describes the reaction of the Times to a topless Modesty Blaise in one panel.--Mikekscott 13:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * This trick is used in a couple of the early novels and is in fact illustrated on the cover of the first American paperback edition to, I believe, either I Lucifer or A Taste for Death. It wasn't a thing she did regularly and while it was given a name (the Stinger or the Stunner - I forget which) suggesting she'd used this trick before, it wasn't a regular part of her arsenal, unlike the kongo hidden in her ponytail, for example. 23skidoo 22:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * "The Nailer", IIRC. ...we should perhaps clarify, also, that the cover illustration in question depicts Ms. Blaise from behind. :) --Paul A 01:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * In the strip story "The Reluctant Chaperone" she uses the Nailer and afterward she and Willie jokingly discuss that it didn't "freeze" the bad guys as long as it used to and speculate that too much nudity in modern culture has rendered it less effective than it used to be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.200.167.211 (talk) 14:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Sabre-Tooth the 1967 paperback published by Fawcett Crest Book is the one with Modesty using The Nailer on the cover. The Nailer was invented by Willie Garvin during a caper and she has used it often ever since. because it was an effective distraction when needed. Several times when there was another female ally, she would have them use The Nailer as bait for the bad guys to ambush them. She has also fought in the nude of several stories like The Silver Mistress and A Taste for Death. In fact her name Modesty came from her being so accustom to nudity and indifferent to being nude.

The kongo was not hidden in her "ponytail". She wore her hair in a variety of ways depending on her mood or the practical circumstances at the time. Her trademark look was a chignon with the hair piled on top of her head. She sometimes wore her hair woven into a club or bun at the base of the neck. A kongo would often be hidden inside. When her hair was plaited and in pigtails or a ponytail it was usually to show her youthful personality. The kongo was also the breakaway handle for her purse or kept in a patchpocket of her "work clothes". She even improvised a kongo with a pepper mill in The Impossible Virgin.

Storm notes
Storm's origin as a thief in Cairo seems to derive from MBlaise.
 * That's a bit tenuous. Presuming you are speaking about the comic book character from the X-Men (correct?), is there a source that suggests Stan Lee was inspired by Modesty Blaise when he (or one of his writers) created the character? 23skidoo 01:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Claremont wrote in an origin for Storm as a child thief under Achmed el-Gibar. . sound familiar to MB? Enda80 16:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)enda80
 * Not particularly, IMO. 23skidoo 18:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Storm was created by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum, with a backstory and character development by Chris Claremonte. Stan Lee was never involved. If anything, Storms child thief past resembles the Artful Dodger and Fagin of Oliver Twist. Modesty as a child was more a begger and scavenger than thief. her life of crime began later. She had Lob a teacher and homeless refugee that she took care of, who taught her different languages. tphile

Book series articles created -- please contribute
I've gone ahead and created starter stubs for all of the Modesty Blaise novels per the Novels WikiProject -- including one for the first book which is at Modesty Blaise (novel). Just follow the links on the booklist. Right now most of them are stubs (a few had already been started). I invite everyone to add plot summaries and other information to these articles. Me, I need to reread most of them to remind myself of what they were about! 23skidoo 02:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I've now added "Plot summaries" to 10 of the 11 novels. I'm guessing my style is more suitable for "plot teasers" than "plot summaries", but that was how I felt inspired. If nobody objects I'll replace the current plot summary for The Silver Mistress, even though the current one is OK in my opinion, just not consistent style-wise with the other 10 by me.

I've also replaced the paperback cover pictures with first edition cover picturesfor 11 of the 13 books. Pieces of Modesty is OK as is, as there was no first edition hardcover. As for Modesty Blaise (novel), if nobody objects I'll move the current American cover picture down and to the left and put a Souvenir Press first edition cover picture in the info box. --RenniePet 21:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, go ahead. And even under Wikipedia's increasingly draconian image rules we can get away with having the two covers because the US one was featured in Pulp Fiction and by mentioning this in the article (and it was a notable reference given Tarantino's documented interest in MB) it satisfies free use. 23skidoo 22:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Template created
I've created a navigational template for the MB books and films which I've added to the individual articles on the novels and My Name Is Modesty. I'm not adding it here because the in-article lists cover this information. I plan to create a separate article on the 1966 film shortly, and possibly one of the 1982 pilot as well, though most likely I'll merge the two into one article. 23skidoo 18:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

New story list a copyvio?
The newly added concordance concerns me because its format is almost identical to that published in the Manuscript Publications releases Lady in the Dark and Live Bait, thereby making it a possible copyvio. Does anyone else concur? 23skidoo 13:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Category:Modesty Blaise books
Would it not be better to rename this category to Category:Modesty Blaise so the films, author, and anything to do with Modesty could be included in the category? --Bduke 23:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * No. The generaly practice is to have books listed under their own category. There's nothing stopping you from creating a blanket Modesty Blaise category and making Modesty Blaise books a subcategory, however. I did something similar with Category:The Saint which has a category for the books as a subcategory of the parent. 23skidoo 23:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, if that is the practice, although it seems to me to be fine for an author with a large number of books, films, etc., but not for one like Modesty Blaise where the number of articles. except the book articles, is quite small. If we did create a category as you suggest it would be much smaller than Category:The Saint - maybe about 5 plus the sub-category. --Bduke 23:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've seen smaller. An alternative (and possibly a better one since there is already a book template used) is a Peter O'Donnell books category since all the MB books were by him anyway, and this would also eventually be populated by articles on his Madeleine Brent novels. 23skidoo 23:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Would you move all the Modesty Blaise books there and delete that category or have it as a sub-category? Would all the MB films go into that category? --Bduke 00:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It would be a subcategory, or in other words, the Books category would itself be placed in a category (see Category:Simon Templar books for an example of what I mean). The films might need to go into an MB films category. Maybe Category:Peter O'Donnell would be more accurate. 23skidoo 02:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Arachibutyrophobia
Please, Modesty Blaise fans, if you have the novel Modesty Blaise at hand, I'd like you to provide context and quotations for -phob-. Thank you. ''mikka 17:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting -- I happen to be a member of one of the main Modesty Blaise e-mail discussion groups and I will post your query there as well. 23skidoo 22:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I just got my first reply confirming the word is in the book. The context is a word game played by Willie and Modesty. Still awaiting chapter and verse citation, however. 23skidoo 22:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thx. I am ashamed I've never heard of Modesty Blaise before. First thing to do I'm done with wikipedia.;( ''mikka 04:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You won't be disappointed. And as it happens the word is not in the original Modesty Blaise novel, but rather in one of the later books, so I'll add the information accordingly. 23skidoo 04:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Modesty Blaine?
There was a female character named "Modesty Blaine" who appeared in several episodes of Maverick. Was there any connection other than the similar names? Inspiration, perhaps? ChrisStansfield 23:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Use of Modesty Blaise template on main page
Regarding RenniePet's question, to my understanding a template isn't needed on a main page if lists covered by the template are already in the main body. I have no objection to having the template, but I never added it initially because I was under the impression it was either unnecessary or we weren't allow to use it. 23skidoo 15:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Done - needs a lot more references. I've flagged a few of the most obvious statements that need sources and issues of canon/fan speculation can be tricky without being well sourced. (Emperor (talk) 04:49, 19 December 2008 (UTC))

New story list
The new story list was presented on this discussion page on 2009-03-03, and implemented on 2009-03-09. The new list have some corrections, some additions, and some minor changes. Benadikt (talk) 02:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC) Benadikt (talk) 23:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Corrections

 * According to Lawrence Blackmore in The Modesty Blaise Companion Companion, story 14 started again on Wednesday, 11th September 1968, and not on 10th.

 * The Dark Angels was first published on 2002-06-13 and 2002-07-11 in the Swedish Agent X9 number 7 and 8, 2002 (I have both issues). So December 2002 is not correct as first publication.

Additions

 * The number of strips (ordinary strips and A-strips) is included in a new column. (The purpose of the A-strips should be explained in the article. Maybe I will write about it later).

 * Two books were published under the Star imprint (and the colophone says in 1978, not 1977). I have both of them, and I have shown the front pages on ComicWiki.
 * Number one have three stories, In the Beginning plus the two on your list already, no. 8 and 10.
 * Number two have the TITLE In the Beginning, but don't include the story with that name! It have story no. 1 and 2.

 * Blackmore mention a Comic Media Vol 2, No. 2 where In the Beginning was published.

 * The first publicaton of story 14a or SP2 was in Glasgow Evening Citizen on 1968-10-07 - 1968-11-16.

 * Holdaway's last published strip was number 2098, and Romero's first published strip was number 2099. See story 18.

 * Burns' last published strip was number 4767A, and Wright's first published strip was number 4768. See story 43.

 * The graphic novel published in 1994 is included on the list. (This is not a newspaper strip story, but neither is story number 96).

 * The number of pages of story 96 is included.

Minor changes

 * The four special stories are numbered different in different indexes. So I have numbered them in notes under the table.

 * The publication dates are written according to the international standard ISO 8601.

 * Because the new Titan Book series will be the most complete series, I have just called it T, and then called the old series OT.

Comments
I don't know how to interprete the number 96 in the sentence: "There were 96 storylines produced..." There were produced 95 ordinary stories for newspapers, 2 special shorter stories for newspapers, and 2 comic book adaptions. Story number 96 (or SP4) is not produced as newspaper strips. And the sentence "... over more than 40 years"? From May 1963 until July 2002 is a little bit less than 40 years.

Benadikt (talk) 23:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Modesty Blaise Quarterly (Comics Revue presents Modesty Blaise)
Does anyone know what stories were covered in issues #24 & 25 ? RGCorris (talk) 16:03, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

 * With issue 23, all the MB stories had been reprinted, so the contents of the last two issues was decided by reader vote. Issue 24 carried "The Galley Slaves" and 25 reprinted "Butch Cassedy Rides Again". Rick Norwood (talk) 18:29, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Rick - I have added that info to the MB page and also to the MB Quarterly page. RGCorris (talk) 20:38, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

WP:EL
WP:EL and WP:FANSITE plainly states the circumstances under which an external link should be avoided. Criterion #11 states that "Links to blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority" should be avoided. The guideline further states that "you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent," and it's not unreasonable to assume that InkStainedAmazon, a SPA whose sole contribution to Wikipedia was putting that link up, is in fact the owner of the "Ink-Stained Amazon" blog to which it links. It is a well-written blog, but fails WP:EL.  Ravenswing  21:36, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't mind a reference being deleted, and your reasoning is good. I did find the write-up to be well written. I might be old fashioned, but I would have called that an article, rather than a blog. It seems calling it a blog is diminutive of the work and research done. I also compared the added website to others that were included in external reference, and found that others were also fansites, just well developed. Therefore, the only reason to delete the link was because it was posted by the owner of the website. I had reversed the first deletion just because I found that the first deletion was non-informative on the reason for deletion. I went to the wikipedia external links (WP:EL) website that was referenced, and couldn't determine what the reasoning was. Now I know. Mburrell (talk) 16:54, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Mab Brevete
"and as for firearms she prefers Colt .32 and Mab Brevete,"

I suppose "Mab Brevete" should be "MAB Breveté", i.e. "MAB Patented". Could it be a reference to the MAB P15 which was marked “PISTOLET AUTOMATIQUE MAB BREVETTE - S.G.D.G.”? HughesJohn (talk) 08:45, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

No, as that gun didn't appear till 1975, and Modesty first mentions and carries the 'MAB Brevete' (which O'Donnell seems to have mistakenly thought was the name of the gun, since it's engraved on the slide) in the first strip story, 'La Machine', in 1963. It seems to be the MAB Modele C of 1933-1967, a pocket-size automatic based on the 1910 Browning-FN, chambered for .32 ACP (7.65mm Browning) or .380 Auto. Since O'Donnell says on p.22 of the original 1965 novel, 'The gun was no stopper, unless you were very accurate. Modesty Blaise was very accurate. And the advantage lay in the gun's comparative quietness,' and since her other favourite is the Colt .32 revolver, the writer seems to have had the .32 version in mind. 84.93.182.25 (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2014 (UTC) Hugo Barnacle

Amazon release dates for Titan reprint series
The last few release dates given on Amazon when a new MB book is first listed have proved to be optimistic, and often change nearer the time of release. Titan seem to work on a six-month gap between releases. It might be better to show forthcoming releases as "Spring" or "Summer" rather than include specific dates in the article that, on previous experience, are unlikely to be accurate. RGCorris (talk) 12:39, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Strip numbering section removed
Much to my disappointment I see someone has decided the list of stories in the Modesty Blaise comic strip series has no place in Wikipedia (yet you can find detailed lists of episodes of the most obscure sitcom. Go figure.). Without that list the "Strip Numbering" section serves absolutely no purpose as there's no context anymore. So I have deleted it. It's still in the archives if someone convinces the powers that be that Wikipedia won't collapse if it contains a list of comic strip storylines. 68.146.72.113 (talk) 14:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess you didn't scroll down far enough - they are all still there in the story list. RGCorris (talk) 19:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Titan Books' reprints
How about putting the information about Titan's reprints in a table like the shown? Benadikt (talk) 23:09, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Looks good to me.  Ravenswing  00:00, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Fine, I have implementet it in the article. 81.25.184.57 (talk) 23:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Andrews McMeel Universal
Why does this article have the Andrews McMeel Universal template at the bottom when Modesty Blaise is not in there?

The Andrew McMeel Universal external link was added on 13 May 2010 when a link to Universal Press Syndicate was added. The Modesty Blaise series link was removed on 24 October 2010 when a link to a commercial site selling Modesty Blaise art was added. I have removed the Universal Press link and added the Modesty Blaise link. Mburrell (talk) 14:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The Modesty Blaise Companion
I have the two books The Modesty Blaise Companion and The Modesty Blaise Companion Companion with comprehensive information about the series. I tried to write a short description (see Literature underneath), but I am not shure if it fits into the article or if it is documented well enough. It is difficult to find any non-commercial desription of the books on the internet, so here is the decription from the publisher: The Modesty Blaise Companion And here is my description on a danish wiki about comic books: The Modesty Blaise Companion and The Modesty Blaise Companion Companion Benadikt (talk) 01:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC) :

Literature
In 2005 Book Palace Books published The Modesty Blaise Companion by Lawrence Blackmore, ISBN &. The book is 436 pages and describe the writer and artists, it have a story outline of all comic stips, novels, and short stories, and it desribes over 2 000 characters in the series with illustrations of them.

With The Modesty Blaise Companion comes a CD Rom containing The Modesty Blaise Companion Companion, a book as a pdf file, 294 pages to print in letter or A4 format. It describes each of the 97 newspaper stories with artist, strip numbers, full number of strips, ordinary strips and A-strips, full number of frames, full story length (number of words), maximum, minimum and average words in a strip, average words per frame, full number of frames, starting and ending date and weekday in Evening Standard, notes on publication in Evening Standard and other newspapers, reprints, main characters, other characters, and locations.

Ripper Jax (or citations)
RGCorris entered information about Ripper Jax as the 27th Titan book to be published. I deleted it because I could find no listing anywhere on the web listing Ripper Jax as the next book, or a publication date. RGCorris undid my deletion and said information was provided by the publisher. I have gone to Titan Books website and did a search of Modesty Blaise books (http://titanbooks.com/search/all/?search=modesty%20blaise&type=Book) and find no listing for Ripper Jax. I have been to Amazon, and they don't list it. Bing and Google can find no listing for it. I don't want to get into an edit war, but without a citation, this sounds like a want rather than an information dump. This is an open request to RGCorris, or anyone else, to provide any citation at all. Otherwise, I will have to delete the information again as speculative. This request is to avoid any concept of edit war, but just a need for proof. Mburrell (talk) 03:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This information was provided by Titan in an e-mail. Feel free to e-mail them yourself if you want confirmation. RGCorris (talk) 13:09, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Information provided in an e-mail is great for your personal blog, but Wikipedia is basically an encyclopedia, and requires citations to reference facts. Please be aware this is not an attack on you, but I will be deleting the mention of the new book until the information can be verified.  Maybe if you wrote to Titan Books and asked them to post the information on their website.  Otherwise, the information you have provided is unverifiable.  Even if I wrote to Titan Books and got an e-mail back, I could not use that information.  Maybe if a news publication or magazine published the information.  Can you include it in a book announcement in a paper or on-line journal? Mburrell (talk) 18:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Very well, I'll put it back when Amazon or the like add it to their list of forthcoming publications. Seems rather a waste of everybody's time and effort but rules is rules :-( RGCorris (talk) 12:13, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Now listed on Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modesty-Blaise-Ripper-Peter-ODonnell/dp/1783298588/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1432036395&sr=1-1&keywords=ripper+jax RGCorris (talk) 12:03, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Philosophical Question - What is meant by Released
Here is a philosophical question. If a publisher lists a book as being published by a certain date, but no retailer is selling it, has it been released? Is the fact of listing the book (for argument's sake, let's call the book Ripper Jax) as being published in November 2015 sufficient to count the book as being released? Or does the book have to be available to a single end-user (estimated date of March 4, 2016) before the book is counted as being released? Mburrell (talk) 06:02, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The Titan website has now been updated and agrees with Amazon that the current projected release date is 4 March 2016 http://titanbooks.com/modesty-blaise-ripper-jax-8431
 * Although there is a "Buy Now" button on the Titan page it does not link to a supplier who currently has the book in stock.
 * Many of the current run of Titan reprints have been subject to date slippage RGCorris (talk) 17:50, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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User mburrell is owning this a bit too much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Modesty_Blaise&oldid=prev&diff=1021144038

When I got round to it, it took less than 30 seconds with Google, searching on "Stross Modesty Blaise " to find the reference mburrell said was needed while undoing work. https://thelaundryfiles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Apocalypse_Codex This wasn't healthy editing, and it was lazy. The Laundry Files canon of drawing references from material such as the Blaise books is a significant here as other references. I suggest you put my work back in, but it isn't something I care to edit war about. Midgley (talk) 14:25, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Amusingly, references 10 and 11 in this WP article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Laundry_Files give even more direct primary references. And IIRC it is explicit in the end-material of the book itself, at least in the edition I have and looked in. There's a WP:CAPITALS that this bit of irritation probably wasn't.  Midgley (talk) 14:45, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

 * I apologize, but this section in the talk page comes off as an ad hominem attack which has nothing to do with the Modesty Blaise article, and should be transferred to the users talk page (my talk page). See No personal attacks. Wikipedia has guidelines on article talk pages, see WP:TALK, but essentially the goal is to stay on topic, "Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject (much less other subjects)." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mburrell (talk) 20:41, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Possible points of additional discussion
I don't have the time right now to look up citations, but one bit of discussion that could be added to the article is Modesty's ethnic background. Although O'Donnell intentionally kept it vague owing to Modesty herself not knowing, there are clues here and there. An ad for the strip that was published before it launched described her as Eurasian, I believe. Other times it's hinted she may be of Middle Eastern descent. This article mentions she first emerged in Greece so she could be Greek or Eastern European. In the comic art she is given a rather exotic look (Romero did this more than others) that could be from any number of regions. Although she later considers herself British it's stated that the UK was adopted homeland. In the movies of course, she was all over the place: Vitti was Italian and played MB as an Italian; Turkel was American and the character was Americanized for US TV; Staden was English. Anecdotally I've seen names like Gal Gadot from Israel and Pryanka Chopra from India on wishlists for playing the character (to be fair, Gadot could fit Holdaway's version, while Chopra could fit the Romero vision of the character). Another point might be an expansion of why O'Donnell created the character: I believe one of the Titan Books says he wanted to create a character women could relate to after having worked on male-aimed strips like James Bond and Garth; one could also imagine characters like Lesley Shayne (a British comic strip character of the 1950s) might have been an inspiration too. 23skidoo (talk) 16:37, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Modesty Blaise


text:
Norm Ledgin

Norman Michael Ledgin (born July 15, 1928, in Passaic, New Jersey; died June 18, 2019, in Stanley, Kansas) was an American writer and journalist, living in the Stanley section of Overland Park, Kansas. He was known for two books dealing with autism, Asperger's and Self-Esteem: Insight and Hope Through Famous Role Models (2002) and Diagnosing Jefferson: Evidence of a Condition that Guided His Beliefs, Behavior, and Personal Associations (2000). The latter argues that Thomas Jefferson demonstrated traits of Asperger syndrome. In 2012 he completed the historical novel "Sally of Monticello: Founding Mother," a portrayal of the 38-year love affair between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings.

Ledgin was also author of The Jayhawker (2007, new edition 2013), historical fiction dealing with the 1850s Kansas Border War, and with Bethine Louise of Lee's Summit, MO, coauthor of Sour Notes: A Sally Freberg Mystery (2009). He was a former traffic safety educator (Source, records of the National Safety Council, Inc.) and was a nationally recognized speaker on autism topics for Future Horizons, Inc. (publisher and conference sponsor, Arlington, TX, Wayne Gilpin, President). He was a speaker as well on local history subjects.

He was a 1950 graduate of Rutgers University, New Brunswick, New Jersey, where he served as editor-in-chief of The Targum, campus newspaper. He editorialized for the overturning of loyalty oaths for R.O.T.C. cadets (the oaths were quickly suspended by order of the Commanding General, First Army HQ., Governor's Island) and for desegregation of fraternities. To set an example in the latter effort, in his junior year he joined Omega Psi Phi, a predominantly African-American fraternity. (Source, Rutgers Alumni Association and Rutgersensia files of The Targum). In 1952 he earned a Master of Arts degree in political science from Rutgers. (Source, graduate records, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ)

In 1951 Ledgin was condemned publicly by the (U.S. Congress) House Un-American Activities Committee for serving as a U.S. sponsor of the Stockholm Peace Appeal, which opposed development, stockpiling, and use of nuclear weapons by the U.S. and U.S.S.R. He contends that his early stands against the arms race and against racial segregation resulted in his being blacklisted in the newspaper profession (primarily a result of publication of House Report 378, 82nd Congress, 1st Session, April 1, 1951--"Report on the Communist 'Peace' Offensive"). (Source, House Report 378, 82nd Congress)

He went on to teach journalism at McNeese State College in Lake Charles, Louisiana, then served five years in safety administration in Southwest Louisiana, winning the citation "Outstanding Young Man of the Year" and the Distinguished Service Award from the Lake Charles Junior Chamber of Commerce in 1962. (Source, Lake Charles American Press)

He moved on to serve a similar administrative role 14 years (1962–76) in Kansas City, Missouri, where he won top awards including the National Safety Council Trustees' Award, "Flame of Life," 1963; Award of Honor, Association of Safety Council Executives, 1974; and Distinguished Service to Safety Award, National Safety Council, 1974. He also served the national organization as chairman of its Driver Improvement Program ("defensive driving"), 1967–68. (Source, records of the National Safety Council, Inc.) In his Kansas City work, in 1966 he co-founded, with Municipal Judge Earle W. Frost, the city's Driver Improvement School. (Source, records of the Kansas City, Missouri, Coordinating Committee on Traffic Safety)

From 1976 to 1984 he edited and, with his wife, the former Marsha Montague, co-published country weekly newspapers in Arthur, Illinois, and in the Stanley-Stilwell communities of Johnson County, Kansas.

On June 18, 2019, Ledgin died from degenerative lung disease. He had five children.

title: Norm Ledgin