text:
Toronto Croatia

C.N.S.C. Toronto Croatia (Croatian National Sports Club Toronto Croatia) is a Canadian soccer team based in Toronto, Ontario, that plays in the Supergroup Open Division in the Canadian Academy of Football. The team's colours are red, white and blue, similar to those of the Croatia national team.

The club was founded in 1956 by the Croatian diaspora in Toronto. Initially the team played in various local amateur leagues before making the transition to the professional ranks by joining the Canadian National Soccer League (CNSL) in 1962. In 1975, after a period of dominance in the CNSL, the organization purchased the Toronto Metros of the North American Soccer League and retained their heritage by inserting Croatia into the team's name. Their greatest success occurred in the 1976 season, where Toronto captured the Soccer Bowl. The 1976 team was later inducted into the Canadian Soccer Hall of Fame.

In 1979 the club sold its share to Global Television Network and returned to the CNSL. Toronto Croatia became a founding member of the Canadian International Soccer League in 1994, returned to the CNSL in 1997, and the following year became a charter member of the Canadian Professional Soccer League (later the Canadian Soccer League [CSL]). They established themselves as an elite club with a league record of six championships. The team has been among the most-successful clubs in Canadian soccer history, and one of the most-successful Croatian diaspora clubs. Toronto Croatia has a noted historical rivalry with the Serbian White Eagles.

Early years (1956–1967)
Croatian National Sports Club Toronto Croatia was formed by the Croatian diaspora in Toronto, Ontario on October 5, 1956 in order to foster closer links with the homeland by promoting organized sporting events and competitions. The original founders of the club were Kreso Mance, Franjo Jurisic, and Juraj Boljkovac who served as the club's first president. Vlado Romanov was selected as the inaugural head coach, while Mance was appointed the first team captain. The club originally competed in the Metro Toronto League, and made its debut against Belfast United. During the club's fledgeling years the team saw little on-field success with their biggest achievement occurring in the 1959 season, when Toronto Croatia participated in the Continental Soccer League and claimed the Continental Cup after defeating Germania by a score of 2–1.

In the 1960s the club received support from club president Nikola Baric, the Croatian community, and Rev. Dragutin Kamber's Croatian parishioners, and the club began to develop into a solid team. Toronto Croatia joined the Toronto and District League in 1960, where they played for two seasons, then transitioned to the professional Canadian National Soccer League (CNSL) in 1962. After several mediocre seasons Toronto Croatia reached the championship finals in the 1966 season, finishing second to Windsor Teutonia.

National Soccer League success (1970–1975)
Having established themselves as a NSL-title contender, Toronto Croatia began attracting talent from the SFR Yugoslavia. They also hired I. Kezman, a professional head coach from Europe. Among the influx of players were Alan Harvey, Rudolf Milicevic, Najrudin Jazic, Jerko Granic, Osvaldo Gonzales, Harry de Vlugt, Lutz Wolansky, Aleja Solak, and Marijan Bilic. Kezman resigned after a lacklustre start to the 1970 season and was replaced by Arthur Rodrigues and Jure Sikic. Under this management the team won the regular season title but was defeated in the championship final by Hamilton Croatia.

Significant additions were brought in for the 1971 season with the arrival of former Dinamo Zagreb head coach Ivan Jazbinšek and Dinamo alumni Bruno Pilaš, Marijan Bradvic, and Zlatko Mesić. Under the leadership of Jazbinšek the team claimed its first treble by winning the regular season title, NSL Championship, and the Croatian-North American Soccer Tournament. At the conclusion of the season the league awarded Željko Bilecki with its Top Goaltender award.

For the 1972 season Vladimir Šimunić replaced Jazbinšek and helped secure another regular-season title and the NSL Cup, while Bilecki received his second Goalkeeper of the Year award. Notable players brought in from abroad included Joško Gluić and Ante Ivković. Šimunić continued with the team for two more seasons, which saw Toronto Croatia win a fourth-consecutive regular-season title in 1973 and a second NSL Championship in 1974.

North American Soccer League years (1975–1978)
In 1975 the club purchased the Toronto Metros of the North American Soccer League to form Toronto Metros-Croatia,  while still retaining a reserve team in the NSL. During this period the team attracted many soccer stars, such as Portuguese superstar Eusébio, and were successful enough that they won Soccer Bowl '76 – in a 3–0 victory over the Minnesota Kicks – at the Kingdome in Seattle. The squad was originally led by Ivan Marković, but after a heated confrontation with Eusébio he decided to resign. His immediate replacement was former-player Marijan Bilić as an interim coach, and a suitable successor was found in Domagoj Kapetanović, an immigrant to Canada who had played for Dinamo Zagreb. The champions' team was: Paolo Cimpiel, Tadeusz Polak, Željko Bilecki, Ivan Lukačević, Robert Iarusci, Eusébio, Mladen Cukon, Carmen Marcantonio, Ivair Ferreira, Wolfgang Sühnholz, Damir Sutevski, Ivan Grnja, Filip Blašković and Chris Horrocks.

However, the NASL was never comfortable with the Croatia link (an obvious ethnic connection). League executives lobbied CBS to ensure they were only referred to as "Toronto" in the televised coverage of Soccer Bowl. In 1978, the team was bought out, leaving the Toronto Blizzard in the NASL, while Toronto Croatia returned to the NSL. The club's successes, despite the instabilities it found in each of the leagues in which it had played, showed what a small ethnic group could accomplish in the North American sport. The 1976 team was inducted into the Canadian Soccer Hall of Fame as its 2010 Team of Distinction.

Return to NSL and Puma League (1979–1997)
In 1983 the club entered a new national league, the Canadian Professional Soccer League (CPSL). This league comprised six teams from across Canada (Edmonton, Montreal, etc.) and initially got off to a strong start. The team was entered as Mississauga Croatia and played its games at Centennial Park Stadium. Due to spiralling costs and poor attendance across the league, two of the teams folded and the league disbanded following a winner-takes-all final. Toronto Croatia returned to the NSL.

Towards the late 1980s, many players and coaches were brought over from Croatia to help elevate the team and its youth programs. Some of the notable players and managers arriving at that time were Drago Šantić (Sibenik), Velimir Crljen (Zadar), Dubravko Ledić (Mostar), and Mišo Smajlović.

The early 1990s saw the team rise to prominence in the community once again as the Croatian War of Independence had begun in the homeland. This activity culminated in a trip to Croatia sponsored by the Croatian Ministry of Sports and Culture, featuring Toronto against Dinamo Zagreb, Hajduk Split, Osijek, Rijeka, Varazdin, and Tomislavgrad. As in the early 1970s, the team became a symbol for the Croatian diaspora community in coming together and campaigning for official recognition for the homeland. At this time, the NSL was beginning to see an elevated level of play, and the attendance at all league games was beginning to rise. Toronto Croatia consistently had the largest attendance of all teams in the league during this era (1990–1995).

With numerous players brought in from Croatia including Josip Lukacevic, Ivan Simic, Goran Pavlic, Mate Stanic, Robert Rupcic and the local youth system providing young talent (Joe Buntic, Frank Delisimunovic, Rob Milek, Anton Granic), the team won the NSL SuperCup and Croatian North American Soccer tournament. Following these successes were PUMA League Championship wins in 1992 and 1995. During both of those seasons, Toronto Croatia won both the League and Croatian National Tournament for North America. During the PUMA league era, Velimir Crljen, Goran Grubesic, Frank Delisimunovic and Anton Granic were voted to the All Star team).

In 1995, Toronto Croatia departed from the CNSL after a dispute with Toronto Italia over alleged debts owned to the club. As a result Toronto Croatia joined the newly formed Canadian International Soccer League, which had sponsorship from Puma. Though the Puma League was a short-lived experiment Toronto Croatia managed to win the league in two consecutive seasons. After the Puma League folded Toronto Croatia, along with Kosova Albanians and Hamilton White Eagles, rejoined the CNSL in 1997. The club continued its tradition of recruiting high-profile Croatian managers from abroad by assigning coaching duties to Zlatko Haramincic. In their return season to the CNSL they finished as runners up in the regular season, which subsequently secured the team a postseason berth. They were eliminated in the preliminary round of the playoffs after 8–1 defeat on goals on aggregate to Toronto Supra.

Founding member of the CPSL and average success (1998–2005)
After years of feuding between the Ontario Soccer Association and the CNSL both parties decided to reconcile their differences in 1998 by forming the new Canadian Professional Soccer League. The project was an attempt to form an exclusively Canadian league, beginning with an Ontario Division. Toronto Croatia became a founding member along with Glen Shields, London City, Mississauga Eagles, North York Astros, St. Catharines Wolves, Toronto Olympians, and York Region Shooters. In preparation for their CPSL debut the club brought in former Dinamo Zagreb manager Rudolf Belin and signed new additions due to the retirement of several key players. They made their CPSL debut on June 3, 1998 in a Canada Cup match against Glen Shields, where they were defeated 3–1 with Stephen Warren providing their only goal. The season was a setback as they finished at the bottom of the standings and failed to advance past their group stage in the Canada Cup tournament.

In 1999 changes were made in Toronto Croatia's managerial department with the appointment of Bruno Pilaš as head coach. Pilaš was able to challenge the Toronto Olympians for the league championship, finishing the season as runners up with the third-highest offensive and defensive record. The club also had a solid Canada Cup tournament, losing the finals 3–0 to the Olympians. In the preliminary round of the postseason Toronto defeated Glen Shields 5–2. In the CPSL Championship final they lost again to the Olympians, who achieved a treble that season. At the conclusion of the season George Azcurra was named the Goalkeeper of the Year.

From 2000 season Velimir Crljen became head coach and Milodrag Akmadzic Backo assistant coach and player. After that in next 15 years (with small breaks) they won many trophies. It was the most successful part of the history. Since 2006 president of the club is Josip Pavicic, also having successful entrepreneurial career. Since 2010 manager is Ivan Kulis. With home players they brought some players from Croatian first and second division. Though Toronto failed in repeating their previous season performance they achieved a postseason berth by finishing third in the standings with the league's second-best offensive and defensive records. Toronto Croatia won their Canada Cup tournament group and advanced to the semifinals, where they were defeated by the Olympians in a 3–2 penalty shootout. Their playoff run began with a 3–1 victory over St. Catharines, advancing to the CPSL Championship final where they again faced the Toronto Olympians. This time Croatia avenged their previous defeats with the Draganic brothers producing goals for a 2–1 championship victory which denied the Olympians back-to-back trebles.

Bruno Pilaš returned as head coach for the 2001 season, when the club relocated to Streetsville, Mississauga to play at Memorial Park, where Mayor Hazel McCallion performed the ceremonial kickoff. Toronto Croatia finished three points shy of a postseason berth and was unable to defend the championship. They likewise failed to advance past their group stage at the Canada Cup tournament. Though the season was an overall failure for Toronto, it was the final occasion as a member of the CPSL that the club would fail to qualify for the postseason. On a positive note George Azcurra received his second Goalkeeper of the Year award.

In 2002, as a result of an increase in teams, the CPSL split the league with Croatia placed in the Western Conference. Zarko Brala managed the squad for the majority of the 2002 season, competing with the Mississauga Olympians for the Conference title, but was discharged on September 9. His dismissal came following the team's defeat in the annual Croatian-North American Soccer Tournament, in which he placed his son, back-up goalkeeper Anthony Brala, into the starting line-up instead of George Azcurra. This brought a negative reaction from the Croatian community, which prompted team president Mario Skara to relive him of his duties. Brala's immediate replacement was former head coach Drago Santic, who had helped the team capture the Puma League title in 1996. Under the guidance of Santic the team won the Western Conference title and achieved a six-game undefeated streak. The team also finished second in the Canada Cup tournament, losing 1–0 to the Ottawa Wizards. However they performed poorly in the playoffs, with a defeat to the North York Astros in the preliminary round. Toronto Croatia had the second-best defensive record in the league, with Azcurra recognized as Goalkeeper of the Year and Domagoj Sain as Defender of the Year.

Toronto Croatia began the 2003 season with a devastating streak of five defeats and an early departure from the Open Canada Cup with a 4–2 loss to Toronto Supra. As a result Santic was relieved from his coaching duties and Velemir Crljen returned in his previous capacity as player-coach. To improve the team's situation, Crljen used the club's overseas connections to bring in players including Josip Juric, Antonijo Zupan, Jure Pavic, Ivica Raguz, and Ante Pavlovic. These additions helped the team recover and finish third in their conference, gaining a postseason berth. In the first round of the playoffs they defeated the Brampton Hitmen 4–3 in a penalty shootout. However this result was overturned by the league after Brampton filed a protest that two suspended Croatian officials had overseen the match. At the conclusion of the season Domagoj Sain received his second Defender of the Year award.

Aldo Krajcar served as head coach for the 2004 season in which the club won another CPSL Championship. They achieved a second-place finish in the Western Conference followed by a 5–0 victory over the Windsor Border Stars in the first round of the postseason. The club was required to play a wildcard match against the Brampton Hitmen, avenging their previous playoff encounter with a score of 3–1. Croatia defeated Western Conference champions Hamilton Thunder 2–0, and in the finals beat the Vaughan Shooters 4–0 with Marasovic, Marko Milicevic, and Zupan scoring the goals.

Crljen returned for his third term as head coach in 2005, with the team acquiring Caribbean talent Hayden Fitzwilliams, Caswain Mason, and Halburto Harris. Toronto Croatia was transferred to the Eastern Conference, over which they battled with Vaughan for supremacy, with Vaughan finishing as champions. In the first round of the postseason they beat Laval Dynamites with Leo Laurito scoring the winning goal. Croatia faced North York Astros in a wildcard round, where player-coach Crljen secured the match 1–0 with an overtime goal. In the second round they lost to Vaughan Shooters, 4–0, failing to defend their championship.

International Division and rebirth of Croatia–Serbia rivalry (2006–2009)
In 2006 the CPSL re-branded itself as the Canadian Soccer League (CSL), and introduced the International Division which represented the various ethnic communities in the Greater Toronto Area. The launch of the division saw the return of Toronto Croatia's traditional rivals, the Serbian White Eagles, which revived their historical derby match. The club also celebrated its 50th anniversary, and went on a tour of Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina where they played the Dinamo Zagreb B team at Maksimir Stadium before the Croatian Supercup, and also played NK Široki Brijeg and NK Primorac Biograd. The organization retained the services of Josip Cvitanovic as club president, and Theo Krajacic as club representative. After gaining coaching experience in Croatia and Asia, former player-coach Mladen Pralija returned to manage the team. The 2006 International Division season was primarily a battle between the two former-Yugoslavian represented teams, which produced the highest attendances throughout the league. The regular season concluded with the White Eagles claiming the division with Croatia finishing as runners up. In the postseason Croatia beat Laval 1–0 but were defeated in the semifinals 1–0 by Italia Shooters. Toronto Croatia's Azcurra was named the Goalkeeper of the Year for a fifth time, which was a league record for an individual player.

2007 season Milodrag Akmadzic Backo became the coach. Prior to the 2007 season the team moved to the Hershey Centre after the league banned the use of Memorial Park. The team won the inaugural Croatian World Club Championship, a tournament for the Croatian diaspora clubs throughout the world, with a 3–1 victory over Canberra Croatia in the final. Team veteran Domagoj Sain was recognized as the tournament's MVP. The team was awarded the championship trophy by Croatian Football Federation president Vlatko Marković.

In the regular season Croatia continued their battle with the White Eagles over the primacy of the International Division, a rivalry which helped increase attendance throughout the CSL. Though Croatia achieved an unbeaten streak with only one defeat they fell short of Serbia by four points in the division. In the postseason Toronto Croatia defeated North York Astros 4–2, and beat National Division titleholders St. Catharines Wolves 3–2 with goals by Fitzwilliams, Tihomir Maletic and an own goal by Wolves. In the CSL championship finals their rivalry with Serbia reached its climax; lacking an adequate stadium available in order to separate the fans the league was forced to change the format to a two-leg game rather than the standard knockout. In the two-game final Croatia defeated the White Eagles by a score of 4–1 goals on aggregate. At the CSL awards banquet team captain Sain became first player to win Defender of the Year a third time, and Maletic was voted Rookie of the Year.

In 2008 Croatia went through a transitional period as many core veterans like Azcurra, Leo Marasovic, Robert Fran, Rudi Spaic, and Robert Grnja retired from competitive soccer. Former Prva HNL manager Miroslav Buljan was hired for the 2008 season and strengthened the roster with the additions of Tonći Pirija and Hugo Herrera. The league introduced the creation of a reserve division to provide a developmental platform for young players to transition to the professional ranks and Toronto Croatia added a reserve squad. Their on-field performance was mediocre as they finished third in the International Division. Their postseason was cut short after losing to 2–1 to Portugal FC in the preliminary round.

As the CSL received sanctioning from the Canadian Soccer Association in 2009, Toronto Croatia formed a partnership with Clarkson Sheridan Soccer Club to jointly develop youth players. Before the start of the season the club moved to Centennial Park Stadium in the Toronto district of Etobicoke, as the Hershey Centre did not meet the standards of a professional facility. During the regular season Toronto continued its annual rivalry with the White Eagles for the division title, where ultimately Serbia claimed the title with Croatia behind by one point. In the opening round of the playoffs they faced the Brampton Lions and won 4–1 points in aggregate, but subsequently lost in the semifinals to Serbia.

League powerhouse and departure to CAF (2010–present)
Prior to the start of the 2010 season Crljen was relieved as coach and replaced by Kreso Grnjto. The team recruited players from overseas including Ivan Žgela and Ante Zurak. Further changes saw the promotion of club secretary Pino Jazbec to the CSL Executive Committee as League Administrator. The CSL administration also restructured the league by combining both the International and National Divisions to form the CSL First Division with a single-table structure. The regular season was unremarkable for Toronto Croatia as the team barely qualified for the playoffs. In the opening round of the postseason Croatia achieved an upset victory against regular-season champions York Region Shooters, winning 3–1 on goals on aggregate. However Toronto then lost 2–0 in the semifinals against Hamilton Croatia. At the conclusion of the season Tihomir Maletic won both the CSL Golden Boot and MVP.

Veteran head coach Crljen was hired to lead the team for the 2011 season, in which the club saw a return to prominence. Toronto Croatia finished second in the regular season with the best defensive record and the second-best offensive record. At the international level they achieved their second Croatian World Club Championship. In the preliminary round of the playoffs they defeated Mississauga Eagles FC 8–1 on goals on aggregate. In the following round Croatia defeated the York Region Shooters 2–0 with goals by Josip Keran and Fitzwilliams. In the finals a goal by Fitzwilliams secured a 1–0 victory over Capital City F.C., winning Toronto Croatia the CSL Championship. At the conclusion of the season Croatia went home with the majority of the CSL team awards, and Crljen was recognized as Coach of the Year. Maletic received his second-consecutive MVP award and Sven Arapovic was given Defender of the Year. Club president Joe Pavicic received the Harry Paul Gauss award for his allegiance, commitment and support to the league and its member clubs.

In 2012 Croatia produced another solid season with the club investing in foreign talent from Croatia by acquiring former 1. HNL and 2. HNL veterans like Josip Bonacin, Andelo Srzentic, Dino Buljan, and Marin Vucemilovic-Grgic. The club achieved their first regular-season title since 2002 and the best offensive and defensive records, with only one loss throughout the season. In the postseason they defeated Niagara United 2–0 and rival White Eagles 4–0. In the championship finals Croatia successfully defended their title by defeating Montreal Impact Academy 1–0 with Vucemilovic-Grgic sealing the match for Toronto. After attaining a prosperous season the league recognized Vucemilovic-Grgic as MVP and Antonio Ilic as Goalkeeper of the Year.

On September 13, 2012 CBC News released an article with wiretap evidence which revealed a bribe in the order of €15,000 (CA$18,000) was paid to Antonijo Zupan, who was to share it with other players on his team. According to the report, monies were paid to fix at least one CSL match, on September 12, 2009, v Trois-Rivières Attak. Zupan denied any knowledge of receiving any money for fixing a match. In response to the allegations of match fixing the CSL issued a statement stating that the league would continue to conduct the necessary steps in order to prevent any future tampering of matches.

During 2013–2015 Croatia's continued to dominate the CSL, finishing in the top three each year, winning the championship in 2015 and finishing as runners up in 2014. The club returned to the Hershey Centre in 2014, due to renovations of Centennial Park Stadium in preparation for the 2015 Pan American Games. Toronto Croatia began reinvesting in their youth structure in 2013 by relaunching their reserve team, which secured the Second Division regular season title and were runners up in the championship. Due to this immediate success the reserve team formed an affiliation with Ferenc Puskás Football Academy, and HNK Rijeka Academy. In 2014, the club released a documentary which detailed the history of the organization.

In 2016 Toronto Croatia departed from the CSL and became a founding member in the LIKA SUPERGROUP Open Division in the Canadian Academy of Futbol (CAF), an academy player developmental league. Coach was Josip Keran.

Since 2017 Croatia Toronto compete in National Arena Soccer League. Both seasons they were first on the end of the season. President is Josip Pavicic, coach Milodrag Akmadzic Backo, assistant coach Zoran Marijanovic, team menager Ivan Kulis and captain was Josip Keran.

Honours

 * North American Soccer League: 1
 * Soccer Bowl '76

 * Canadian National Soccer League: 4
 * 1971, 1974, 1988, 1992

 * Canadian Soccer League: 6
 * 2000, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2015

 * CNSL Playoff Champions: 3
 * 1971, 1974, 1988

 * CNSL Regular Season: 4
 * 1970, 1971, 1972, 1992

 * CSL Regular Season: 1
 * 2012

 * Canadian Open Cup: 3
 * 1971, 1972, 1973

 * NSL/CNSL Cup: 6
 * 1972, 1975, 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993

 * NSL Canada Cup: 1
 * 1989

 * Canadian International Soccer League: 2
 * 1995, 1996

 * Croatian World Club Championship: 2
 * 2007, 2011

Coaching history

 * Vlado Romanov (1956)
 * I. Kezman (1970)
 * Arthur Rodrigues (1970)
 * Ivan Jazbinšek (1971–1972)
 * Vladimir Šimunić (1973–1974)
 * Mišo Smajlović (1988)
 * Tonko Vukušić (1989)
 * Drago Šantić (1996)
 * Zlatko Haramincic (1997)
 * Rudolf Belin (1998)
 * Bruno Pilaš (1999)
 * Velimir Crljen (2000)
 * Bruno Pilaš (2001)

 * Zarko Brala (2002)
 * Drago Šantić (2002–2003)
 * Velimir Crljen (2003)
 * Aldo Krajcar (2004)
 * Velimir Crljen (2005)
 * Mladen Pralija (2006)
 * Milodrag Akmadzic (2007)
 * Miroslav Buljan (2008)
 * Velimir Crljen (2009)
 * Kreso Grnjto (2010)
 * Velimir Crljen (2011–2015)
 * Josip Keran (2016–)

Notable players
SFR Yugoslavia and Croatia
 * Ibrahim Arslanovic (1973–1974)
 * Aljoša Asanović (2001)
 * Božo Bakota (1988–1990)
 * Marijan Bilić (1970–1974)
 * Josip Bonacin (2012)
 * Marijan Bradvic (1971)
 * Mirsad Cehaic (1974)
 * Velimir Crljen (2000, 2002–2006)
 * Miralem Fazlić (1974)
 * Joško Gluić (1973)
 * Jerko Granic (1971–1974)
 * Goran Grubesic (2003)
 * Ante Ivković (1973)
 * Josip Juric (2002)
 * Zlatko Mesić (1971)
 * Goran Meštrović (1990)
 * Ivan Mršić (1982–1983)
 * Jure Pavic (2003, 2006)
 * Bruno Pilaš (1971–1972)
 * Tonći Pirija (2008–2012)
 * Mladen Pralija (1992–1993)
 * Krešimir Prgomet (2014)
 * Boris Psaker (1970–1974)
 * Ivica Raguž (2003)
 * George Simcich (1971-1972)
 * Aleja Solak (1970–1974)
 * Damir Šutevski (1974)
 * Ivan Žgela (2009–2010)
 * Antonijo Zupan (2003–2006, 2009)

Albania
 * Gentian Buzali (1997, 2000)
 * Tony Preci (2000)
 * Ervin Ryta (2000)

Argentina
 * Hugo Herrera (2007–2012)
 * Flavio Ivanovic (1990)

Canada
 * Nikola Andrijevic (2001–2003)
 * George Azcurra (1999–2008)
 * Marko Bedenikovic (2004, 2008)
 * Željko Bilecki (1971–1974)
 * Orlin Chalmers (2003–2005)
 * Oscar Cordon (2015)
 * Shawn Faria (1999)
 * Andrés Fresenga (2015)
 * Stevie Gill (1994–1996)
 * Willy Giummarra (2004)
 * Chris Handsor (2000)
 * Roman Harapyn (1997, 2005)
 * Alan Harvey (1970)
 * Nicholas Lindsay (2015)
 * Semir Mesanovic (2001–2002)
 * Paul Moore (2000)
 * David Velastegui (2013–2014)

Jamaica
 * Corcel Blair (1971–1974)

Netherlands
 * Harry de Vlugt (1970)

Poland
 * Czesław Zajac (1998–1999)

Portugal
 * Eusébio 1975–1976

title: Toronto Croatia


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lou Renner

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 04:15, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Lou Renner
Vanity and non-notable. --Woohookitty 21:52, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Google only gets 78 hits for "Lou Renner", most of whom don't seem to be this person. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:58, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Seems like an interesting fellow, but he doesn't pass the Google test, as indicated already. --Idont Havaname 23:32, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-notable TigerShark 00:07, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It passed the Google Test for me when I checked it.  mentions a Lou Renner who creates topos that are posted at Pacific Edge climbing gymnasium and then posted in climbing magazines.  mentions a Lou Renner who is a "Santa Cruz climber" and who "makes his living running a successful guiding business and has an impressive record of FA's in the Alps and the Sierras".  Both of these were in the very first page of Google Web results for the name.  Holding a speed record for the ascent of the Jungfrau would appear to establish notablility.  (It's a lot more notable than eating cheeseburgers, at any rate.)  Keep. Uncle G 02:49, 2005 Feb 8 (UTC)
 * I created this entry. Given the concern about Lou's notability I have added more information to the page. I question the apparent Google notable test. It would tend to exclude those who have not spent the energy to make themselves known to the world. Lou is such a person. Keep'. DanielWenger
 * Note: This vote is user's first edit. Carrp | Talk 18:11, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Put very simply: An encyclopaedia is a compendium of knowledge. If something, or someone, isn't "known", then they don't belong. Uncle G 05:31, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable. Carrp | Talk 18:10, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I encourage you to contribute more, DanielWenger...but...Wikipedia is not here to make someone notable. Reference works are reflections of what is notable, not creators of notability. --Woohookitty 18:50, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, reads like an ad for a climbing guide. Wyss 20:45, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree that a reference work is not meant to create a notable person. It is Lou's remarkable achievements that make him notable. The lack of reference to him on Google do not diminish from his accomplishments. I do believe that his history and record could be better presented. DanielWenger 00:29, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Then present them better. Cite your sources.  Google is not the only reference that we accept.  Far from it.  But we get a vast amount of biographical articles making all sorts of hyperbolic, or even downright false, claims about people's achievements.  We cannot simply take an article's word for it.  You have added all of this information about the subject.  Tell us, in the article, where you learned that information from.  You must have learned it from somewhere. Uncle G 05:31, 2005 Feb 12 (UTC)
 * Comment. A mountain-climber could be notable, of course. The only mountain-climber whose name I can think of is Edmund Hilary, but that probably only proves that I don't anything about mountain-climbing. What evidence is there that this person is famous in the world of mountain-climbers?   --BM 01:51, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Sukuk

Sukuk (صكوك; plural of صك) is the Arabic name for financial certificates, also commonly referred to as "sharia compliant" bonds. Sukuk are defined by the AAOIFI (Accounting and Auditing Organization for Islamic Financial Institutions) as "securities of equal denomination representing individual ownership interests in a portfolio of eligible existing or future assets." The Fiqh academy of the OIC legitimized the use of sukuk in February 1988.

Sukuk were developed as an alternative to conventional bonds which are not considered permissible by many Muslims as they pay interest (prohibited or discouraged as Riba, or usury), and also may finance businesses involved in activities not permitted under Sharia (gambling, alcohol, pork, etc.). Sukuk securities are structured to comply with Sharia by paying profit, not interest—generally by involving a tangible asset in the investment. For example, Sukuk securities may have partial ownership of a property built by the investment company (and held in a Special Purpose Vehicle), so that sukuk holders can collect the property's profit as rent, (which is allowed under Islamic law). Because they represent ownership of real assets and (at least in theory) do not guarantee repayment of initial investment, sukuk resemble equity instruments, but like a bond (and unlike equity) regular payments cease upon their expiration. However, most sukuk are "asset-based" rather than "asset-backed"—their assets are not truly owned by their Special Purpose Vehicle, and their holders have recourse to the originator if there is a shortfall in payments.

Different types of sukuk are based on different structures of Islamic contracts (Murabaha, Ijara, Istisna, Musharaka, Istithmar, etc.) depending on the project the sukuk is financing.

According to the State of the Global Islamic Economy Report 2016/17, of the $2.004 trillion of assets being managed in a sharia compliant manner in 2014, $342 billion were sukuk, being made up of 2,354 sukuk issues.

Etymology
The Arabic term was borrowed from Classical Persian چک (čak, “legal document, document, contract, deed of sale, bill”).

History
In the classical period of Islam, Sakk (sukuk) meant any document representing a contract or conveyance of rights, obligations or monies done in conformity with the Shariah. The term was used to refer to forms of papers representing financial obligations originating from trade and other commercial activities in the Islamic pre-modern period.

According to Camille Paldi, the first sukuk transaction took place in Damascus in its Great Mosque in the 7th century AD. Muslim traders are known to have used the cheque or ṣakk system since the time of Harun al-Rashid (9th century) of the Abbasid Caliphate.

The modern Western word "cheque" appears to have been derived from "sakk" (singular of sukuk),   which during the Middle Ages referred to a written agreement "to pay for goods when they were delivered" and was used to "avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain".

Answering a need to provide short and medium term instruments so that balance sheets of Islamic financial institutions could be more liquid, the Fiqh academy of the OIC (Organization of Islamic Countries) legitimized the use of sukuk in February 1988.
 * Modern

In 1990 one of the first contemporary sukuk—worth RM125 million—were issued by Malaysia Shell MDS Sdn Bhd, on the basis of bai' bithaman ajil. The next major Sukuk Issuances was by Kuala Lumpur International Airport RM2.2 billion each in 1996 and 1997. In 2000, the government of Sudan issued domestic sovereign short-term sukuk worth 77 million Sudanese pounds on the basis of musharaka. In 2001, the sukuk market went international with the issuance of the first US-dollar-denominated ijara sukuk, worth $100 million by the Central Bank of Bahrain. Since then many sovereign and corporate sukuk issues have been offered in various jurisdictions.

To standardize the growing market, the AAOIF issued "Shari’ah Standard No.17" on 'Investment Sukuk' in May 2003. It became effective starting 1 January 2004.

Industry
As of early 2017, there were US$328 billion worth of sukuk outstanding worldwide. As of the end of 2016, there were about 146 US Dollar-denominated, Islamic fixed income securities issued in the global markets, that were investment-grade, and had a duration of at least one year. These securities—which make up the Citi Sukuk Index—had an average maturity of 4.54 years, and most were issued by governments. The top four issuers by market weight—making up over 40% of the market—were: ISLAMIC DEVELOPMENT BANK, PERUSAHAAN PENERBIT SBSN INDOIII, SAUDI ELECTRICITY CO, SOQ SUKUK A QSC. About 3/4 of the sukuk market is domestic, not international. Most sukuk are not investment grade however, and as of 2015, there were 2,354 sukuk issues in total, including local currency denominated, non-global market sukuk, according to Thomson Reuters & Dinar Standard. According to the Malaysian International Islamic Financial Centre, as of 2013 the biggest issuers of sukuk were governments (65.6%), and the second largest were power and utility companies (13.6%).

Secondary market
Sukuk securities tend to be bought and held. As a result, few securities enter the secondary market to be traded. Furthermore, only public Sukuk are able to enter this market, as they are listed on stock exchanges.

The secondary market—whilst developing—remains a niche segment with virtually all of the trading done at the institution level. The size of the secondary market remains unknown, though LMC Bahrain states they traded $55.5 million of Sukuk in 2007. As of July 2014 sukuk.com listed fifteen sukuk on the secondary market for Gulf Sukuk.

Principles
Ali Arsalan Tariq states that Islamic finance—including sukuk—is based on a set of several prohibitions: As Shari’ah considers money to be a measuring tool for value and not an asset in itself, it requires that one should not receive income from money (or anything that has the genus of money) alone, as this (simplistically, interest) is "riba", and forbidden. From a Sharia perspective, certificates of debt are not tradable except at their par value (although a different view is held by many in Malaysia).
 * 1) Transactions in unethical goods and services;
 * 2) Earning returns from a loan contract (Riba/Interest);
 * 3) Compensation-based restructuring of debts;
 * 4) Excessive uncertainty in contracts (Gharar);
 * 5) Gambling and chance-based games (Qimar);
 * 6) Trading in debt contracts at discount, and;
 * 7) Forward foreign exchange transactions.

While a bond is a contractual debt obligation of the issuer to pay to bondholders, on certain specified dates, interest and principal; a Sukuk is a certificate giving Sukuk holders an undivided beneficial ownership in the underlying assets. Consequently, Sukuk holders are entitled to share in the revenues generated by the Sukuk assets as well as being entitled to share in the proceeds of the realization of the Sukuk assets.

Similarities with bonds

 * Sukuk and bonds are sold to investors who receive a stream of payments until the date of the maturity of the sukuk or bond, at which time they get their original investment (in the case of sukuk a full payment is not guaranteed) back.
 * Sukuk and bonds are intended to provide investment with less risk than equities (such as shares of stock) and so are often used to "balance a portfolio" of investment instruments.
 * Both Sukuk and bonds must issue a disclosure document known as a prospectus to describe the security they are selling.
 * To give investors an idea of how much risk is involved in particular sukuk/bonds, rating agencies rate the credit worthiness of the issuers of the sukuk/bond.
 * Both sukuk and bonds are initially sold by their issuers. After that they (or some sukuk and bonds) may be bought and sold by brokers and agents, mostly on the over-the-counter (OTC) market, but are also available on some stock exchanges around the world.

Differences from bonds

 * Ownership: Sukuk should indicate partial ownership of an asset. Bonds indicate a debt obligation.
 * Compliance: The assets that back sukuk should be compliant with Shariah. Bonds need only comply with laws of country/locality they are issued in.
 * Pricing: The face value of a sukuk is priced according to the value of the assets backing them. Bond pricing is based on credit rating, i.e. the issuer's credit worthiness.
 * Rewards and risks: Sukuk can increase in value when the assets increase in value. Returns from bonds correspond to fixed interest. (Because most bonds' interest rates are fixed, most increase in value when the market interest rates fall.)
 * Sales: When you sell sukuk, you are selling ownership in the assets backing them. (In instances where the certificate represents a debt to the holder, the certificate will not be tradable on the secondary market and instead should be held until maturity.) The sale of bonds is the sale of debt.
 * Principal: Sukuk investors (in theory) share the risk of the underlying asset and may not get all their initial investment (the face value of the sukuk) back. (The value payable to the Sukuk-holder on maturity should be the current market value of the assets or enterprise and not the principal originally invested, according to Taqi Usamani.) Bond investors are guaranteed the return of their initial investment/principal. In practice some sukuk are issued with repurchase guarantees.
 * Conventional bonds are issued with underwriters. Sukuk underwriters do not usually conduct the issuance and may not be required. Sukuk use Special Purpose Vehicles to be the trustee/issuer of the sukuk.

Definitions, structure and characteristics
The AAOIFI (Accounting and Auditing Organization for Islamic Financial Institutions, the body which issues standards on accounting, auditing, governance, ethical, and Shari'a standards) defines Sukuk as "securities of equal denomination representing individual ownership interests in a portfolio of eligible existing or future assets," or "'certificates of equal value representing undivided shares in the ownership of tangible assets, usufructs and services or (in the ownership of) the assets of particular projects or special investment activity'."
 * Definitions

The Islamic Financial Services Board defines sukuk as "'certificates with each sakk representing a proportional undivided ownership right in tangible assets, or a pool of predominantly tangible assets, or a business venture. These assets may be in a specific project or investment activity in accordance with Sharia rules and principles."

The Securities Commission of Malaysia defined sukuk as a document or certificate, which represents the value of an asset.

Sharia forbids both the trading of short-term debt instruments except at face value, and the drawing upon the established interbank money markets (both being seen as transactions involve interest and excessive uncertainty (Gharar)). As a consequence, prior to the development of the sukuk market, the balance sheets of Islamic financial institutions tended to be highly illiquid and lacking in short and medium term investment opportunities for their current assets.
 * Need

Sukuk are structured in several different ways. (The AAOIFI has laid down 14 different types of sukuk.) While a conventional bond is a promise to repay a loan, sukuk constitute partial ownership in a debt, asset, project, business or investment.
 * Structure and characteristics
 * debt (Sukuk Murabaha). These sukuk are not common because their payments to investors represent debt and are therefore not tradable or negotiable according to sharia. (If diluted with other non-murahaha sukuk in a mixed portfolio they may be traded).
 * asset (Sukuk Al Ijara). These are "essentially" rental or lease contracts, or conventional lease-revenue bonds. With these sukuk, the borrower's tangible asset is 'sold' to the financier and then 'leased' back to the borrowers. The borrowers then make regular payments back to the financiers from the income stream generated by the asset. They are the most common type of sukuk (as of 2015), and have been described (by Faleel Jamaldeen) as well known because of there simplicity, tradability and ability to provide a fixed flow of income.
 * asset at a future date. (Sukuk al-Salam). In this sukuk the SPV does not buy an asset but agrees to buy one at a future date in exchange for advance payments. The asset is then sold in the future for its cost plus a profit by an agent. On (or before) the date agreed to in the contract, the seller delivers the asset to the agent who sells the asset who passes the proceeds (minus expenses/fees) on to the SPV, which distributes the proceeds to the sukuk holders. Sukuk al-Salam are (at least usually) used to support a company's short term liquidity requirements. Holders receive payment not with a regular flow of income, but at maturity—similar to a zero-coupon bond. An example of this kind of sukuk are 91-day CBB Sukuk Al-Salam issued by Central Bank of Bahrain.
 * project (Sukuk Al Istisna). These sukuk are complex and cannot be traded in the secondary market or sold to a third party for less than its face value.
 * business (Sukuk Al Musharaka). These sukuk holders are also the owners of the originator issuing the sukuk and participate in the decision-making. These sukuk can be traded in the secondary market.
 * or investment (Sukuk Al Istithmar).

The most commonly used sukuk structures replicate the cash flows of conventional bonds. Such structures are listed on exchanges, commonly the Luxembourg Stock Exchange and London Stock Exchange in Europe, and made tradable through conventional organisations like Euroclear or Clearstream. A key technique to achieve capital protection without amounting to a loan is a binding promise to repurchase certain assets; e.g. in the case of Sukuk Al Ijara, by the issuer. In the meantime a rent is being paid, which is often benchmarked to an interest rate (LIBOR is the most common though its use is criticized by some Sharia Scholars).

The most accepted structure, which is tradable, is thereafter the Sukuk Al Ijara. Debt certificates can only be bought before the finance occurs and then held to maturity, from an Islamic perspective. This is critical for debt trading at market value without incurring the prohibited riba (interest on money).

Issuing and payment process
Step-by-step process of issuing a sukuk based on an asset:

In this type of sukuk, fixed interest of a conventional bond is replaced by fixed lease income. Islamic economist Muhammad Akram Khan complains that sukuk are "different from conventional finance in form and formalities rather than substance", and "may even be more expensive" for the income provided than a conventional bond.
 * 1) The originator—a business firm requiring capital—creates a special purpose vehicle (SPV), an independent entity and structures. The SPV protects the sukuk assets from creditors if the originator has financial troubles. It specifies what asset or activity the sukuk will support, how large the issuance of sukuk will be, their face amounts, interest rates, maturity date. SPV are often located in "tax-efficient jurisdictions" such as Bahrain, Luxembourg or the Cayman Islands.
 * 2) The SPV issues the sukuk offering it for sale to investors with an agreement spelling out the relationship between obligator and sukuk holders (depending on the type of sukuk this can be lessor and lessee, partner, etc.).
 * 3) With the money from the sale of sukuk certificates, the SPV passes offering to the originator who makes the sharia compliant asset purchase, lease, joint venture, etc. (again depending on the type of sukuk).
 * 4) The SPV purchases assets (such as land, building, machinery) from the originator.
 * 5) The sale proceeds are paid to the originator/debtor as the price of the assets.
 * 6) The SPV, acting as a trustee on behalf of the sukuk-holders, arranges to lease the assets back to the originator who pays the sukuk-holders the lease income.
 * 7) The originator buys back the asset from the SPV at a nominal price on termination of the lease.

Example
An example of a sukuk was a $100 million security used to finance the construction and delivery of cooling plants in Abu Dhabi. This sukuk had an istisna'a and ijara structure and was issued by the Tabreed Financing Corporation (or National Central Cooling Company PJSC) in March 2004.
 * Tabreed created an SPV (incorporated in the Cayman Islands), which sold certificates of sukuk bonds.
 * With the proceeds of this sale it bought some partially completed central cooling plants ("assets" held in trust for the sukuk). (1)
 * The SPV leased the trust assets to the Tabreed (2)
 * which made rental payments to the SPV (3)
 * which passed the payments on to sukuk holders (4).
 * When the sukuk matured the trust assets are bought back from the SPV and the sukuk holders got their principal back.

If some "dissolution event" (e.g. destruction of the leased property) had interrupted the payment of rent this would have prompted "the continuation of payments in the form of repurchase price". This reduced the risk structure of the sukuk to that (or near that) of conventional bonds, which permits the sukuk to earn the same or close to the same credit ratings that conventional bonds earn. Consequently, they are able to be sold at an interest rater lower than they might otherwise, although their transactions costs are higher than conventional bonds because of the creation of SPVs, as well as payment of various jurist and legal fees for structuring the bond issuance.

Challenges
According to a 2015 IMF report, the supply of Sukuk, "falls short of demand" and, with some exceptions "issuance takes place without a comprehensive strategy to develop the domestic market". "Sukuk are seen as well-suited for infrastructure financing because of their risk-sharing property could also help fill financing gaps. National authorities should, therefore, focus on developing the necessary infrastructure, including promoting true securitization and enhanced clarity over investors' rights, and on stepping up regular sovereign issuance to provide a benchmark for the private sector. Increased sovereign issuance should be underpinned by sound public financial management."

"Key challenges" to the Islamic finance industry as a whole—including sukuk—as of 2016 include (according to the State of the Global Islamic Economy Report, 2015/16 and the IMF) are
 * "Low levels" of awareness and understanding of Islamic finance products and services among the public, leading them to not buy;
 * A "scarcity of Shariah-compliant monetary policy instruments" and a lack of understanding of "the monetary transmission mechanism"
 * "Complex financial products and corporate structures" in some countries/jurisdictions because "regulatory and supervisory frameworks" do not "address the unique risks of the industry".  Consequently, what is needed is "increased regulatory clarity and harmonization, better cooperation between Islamic and conventional financial standard-setters, and further improvement of supervisory tools".
 * "Underdeveloped" safety nets and resolution frameworks. In many places these include complete Islamic deposit insurance systems where premiums are invested in Shariah-compliant assets, or Shariah-compliant "lenders-of-last-resort".
 * Regulators who "do not always have the capacity (or willingness) to ensure Shariah compliance."

In three years during and following the Financial crisis of 2007–2008 – 2008, 2009, 2010 – there were at least 21 substantial sukuk defaults, and several large near defaults such as that of Dubai World saved by a $10 billion loan from Abu Dhabi As of 2009, there were a number of cases where the sukuk had defaulted or were in serious trouble. In May 2009, Investment Dar of Kuwait defaulted on $100 million sukuk. Saad Group set up a committee to restructure $650 million Golden Belt 1 sukuk. Standard & Poor's cut the rating of that sukuk "owing to the non-availability of vital information". Another source (Mushtak Parker) claims there "have been a mere three or four" sukuk defaults – East Cameron sukuk in Louisiana (a dispute relating to the profit-sharing arrangement of the instrument); the Investment Dar sukuk (to do with "cash flow problems of the company and its subsidiaries, albeit it had a side dispute with an investor, Blom Bank relating to the syariah aspects of the contracts"); and the "notorious" Saad/Al Gosaibi sukuk default ("more a market failure and an internecine dispute between the two Saudi partners").
 * Defaults

At least one of the three major bond rating agencies for the US has indicated doubts about the "validity" of transfer of assets from the originator in sukuk in the "event of an insolvency of the originator" and attempts by creditors to seize the assets. "Fitch has not reviewed any transaction to date that would satisfy these requirements."
 * Protection from originator's default

Underscoring Fitch's concern was the bankruptcy of East Cameron Partners ECP which issued a multiple-award-winning sukuk in 2006 but filed for bankruptcy in October 2008, prompting a legal dispute about the creditors' right to $167.67 million in sukuk assets. (The final decision of the case "did not clearly resolve this issue".) Another major rating agency, S&P, downgraded the sukuk of Dubai Islamic bank and Sharjah Islamic Bank.

According to Ibrahim Warde as of 2010, "What is till unclear is what happens to sukuk when they fail – an issue that has not been tested in court. In Malaysia, some sukuk issues have junk status, and two other sukuk are already in default: the Easter Cameron Gas company in the United States and Investment Dar of Kuwait. One of the unresolved questions is whether sukuk holders should stand in the line of creditors or in the line of the owners of underlying assets.'"

In reviewing cases of sukuk defaults and bankruptcies, Muddassir Siddiqui complained that "'Through reading many cases that have so far been litigated in courts around the world, I have found that in almost all cases, the courts have struggled to reconcile the substance and form of the contract. Was it a sale, lease, construction or partnership contract or a financing arrangement between the parties?'"

According to Rodney Wilson, when sukuk payments are delayed or fail, "the means of redress are potentially more complex than for conventional notes and bonds". In particular "under Shari’ah leniency towards debtors is favoured", which inevitably raises moral hazard problems.

There have been at least two cases of companies seeking to restructure their debt (i.e. pay creditors less), claiming that debt they had issued was not in compliance with sharia. In a 2009 court filing Investment Dar, a Kuwaiti company claimed a transaction "was taking deposits at interest".
 * Discrediting Sharia compliance

In June 2017, an independent gas company (Dana Gas PJSC) declared two of its sukuk – with a total worth of $700 million – no longer sharia compliant, and offered to exchange the sukuk with a new one which would pay "less than half of the current profit rates and without a conversion feature". The Sukuk were issued in 2013 and due to mature on 30 October 2017. Dana refused to make payments on them, alleging that "changes in Islamic finance over recent years have made the bonds unlawful in the UAE". A month earlier, Dana had announced plans to restructure the debt, stating it needed to "focus on short to medium-term cash preservation." Sukuk holders, represented by fund manager BlackRock and Deutsche Bank, have been arguing against Dana in a London High Court. In October 2017, a court in the emirate of Sharjah in the UAE—where Dana had filed for protection—postponed a ruling on the sukuk. The issue has been called "one of the greatest challenges that the Islamic finance industry has faced in recent times", but the idea that the case is "a blow to Islamic finance" has also been dismissed as "poppycock".

Criticism and controversy
Sukuk have been criticized as evading the restrictions on riba, and imitating conventional bonds.

In February 2008, the AAOIFI's board of scholars, led by Sheik Muhammad Taqi Usmani, stated that as many as 85 percent of sukuk sold to date may not comply with all the precepts of Shariah. In a paper entitled "Sukuk and their Contemporary Applications" released in November 2007, Usmani identified the following three key structuring elements that differentiate Sukuk from conventional bonds:
 * Sukuk must represent ownership shares in assets or commercial or industrial enterprises that bring profits or revenues
 * Payments to Sukuk-holders should be the share of profits (after costs) of the assets or enterprise
 * The value payable to the Sukuk-holder on maturity should be the current market value of the assets or enterprise and not the principal originally invested.

Usmani stated that by complex mechanisms Sukuk had taken on the same characteristics as conventional interest-bearing bonds, as they do not return to investors more than a fixed percentage of the principal, based on interest rates, while guaranteeing the return of investors' principal at maturity. Usmani's estimate that 85% of all Sukuk in issuance were not Shariah-compliant was based on the existence of guaranteed returns and/or repurchase obligations from the issuer—a violation of shariah.

Following Usmani's criticisms the global sukuk market shrunk from US$50 billion in 2007 to approximately $14.9 billion in 2008, although how much of this was due to his criticisms or the Global Financial Crisis is a matter of debate.

The Financial Times has described this as an "ongoing" debate over "form versus substance" in Islamic finance, identifying two kinds of sukuk – "asset-backed" sukuk and the more numerous, less strict, allegedly non-compliant  "asset based" sukuk. In "asset-backed" sukuk there is "a true sale between the originator and the special purpose vehicle (SPV) that issues the sukuk and sukuk holders do not have recourse to the originator". Asset prices may vary over time. In contrast "asset-based" sukuk  do  give their holders recourse to the originator, and so more closely resemble conventional bonds.

Other critics include non-orthodox economist Mahmoud El-Gamal, who has complained that while providers of sukuk (and other Islamic finance instruments) will often describe their "distinguishing feature" as the "prohibition of interest", they will then "proceed to report the interest rate that Islamic instruments pay. For instance, Reuters' 13 August 2002, coverage of Bahrain's $800 million sukuk ... followed their characterization of Islamic financial products as 'interest-free' with a report that those sukuk will pay '4 percent annual profit'." He also complains that despite claims that sukuk—unlike conventional bonds—share the risk of their underlying asset and may increase or decrease in value, in sukuk such as the Tabreed sukuk mentioned above, steady payment of "rent" is written into the sukuk contract giving them a risk structure "essentially" the same as conventional bonds.

Another observer, Salman Ali, found that many of the sukuk structures "do not conform to the Shariah". According to Ali, while most of the sukuk make an effort to remain "within Shariah bounds", they "replicate conventional debt instruments". They often combine more than one contract, "which individually may be Shariah-compliant" but when combined "may defeat the objective of the shariah". Furthermore, the sukuk rate of return is often "tied" to the Libor (London interbank offered rate) or Euribor (euro interbank offered rate) interest rate "rather than to the underlying business" that the sukuk is financing. This makes the sukuk "so similar to conventional debt instruments that it is difficult to tell one from the other". Ali believes this may be why rating agencies such as Standard & Poors and Moody's apply the same methodology for rating sukuk as for conventional debt instruments.

In 2011, Safari conducted various statistical and econometrics tests to check the argument that sukuk securities are merely the same as conventional bond. However, his results on the comparison of yield to maturity of sukuk and that of conventional bonds show that sukuk securities are different from conventional bonds. In response to this argument, it was pointed out that yield to maturity reflects the interplay of supply and demand which may be affected by a financial product's packaging and target market rather than just the substance of the product alone. In 2011 Goldman Sachs abandoned a $2 billion sukuk programme it had registered with the Irish Stock Exchange, after some analysts stated that its sukuk "might violate Islamic bans on interest payments and monetary speculation" (in 2014 it successfully drew about $1.5 billion in orders for the five-year sukuk).

Bahrain
Bahrain is a major issuer of sukuk.

Bangladesh
In August 2020, Bangladesh Bank took initiatives to implement sukuk with the help of national private Islamic banks.

Brunei
Starting in 2006 the Brunei Government issued short-term Sukuk Al-Ijarah securities. As of 2017 they have issued B$9.605 billion worth.

Egypt
On 8 May 2013, Egyptian President Muhammad Morsi approved a law allowing the government to issue sukuk, however as of May 2013 the relevant regulations have not been specified and this law has been replaced by amending some new articles in the capital market law and its executive regulations. As of 2016 the Egyptian government stated it would use "innovative financial tools for the implementation of government projects", such as Sukuk.

Gambia
In 2007, Gambia replaced Sudan as one of the ten countries issuing sukuk. It has one of the lowest amount of sukuk issuance, with $12.6 mil as of 2008.

Indonesia
According to islamicfinance.com, at end-2013 outstanding stock in Indonesia's sukuk market was US$12.3 billion, with growth coming driven from the government sector.

Iran
Although the first use of Islamic financial instruments in Iran goes back to 1994 with the issuance of Musharakah sukuk by Tehran Municipality to finance Navab project, the enactment of Iran securities market law, and new instruments and financial institutions development law was done respectively in 2005 and 2010 to pave the way for the appliance of such instruments to develop financial system of the country. The first Ijarah sukuk was issued in Iranian Capital Market in January 2011 for financing Mahan Air company with the value of 291,500 million Rials.

Malaysia
More than half of sukuk issued worldwide are in Malaysian ringgit, with the United States dollar coming second. Malaysia is one of the few countries that makes it mandatory for sukuk and other debt papers to be rated. RAM Rating Services Bhd CEO Foo Su Yin says the total issuance of sukuk corporate bonds in 2012 was RM 71.7 billion while conventional bonds totalled RM48.3 billion. As at 2011, Malaysia was the highest global sukuk issuer by issuing 69 percent of world's total issuances.

Kazakhstan
In June 2012, Kazakhstan finalized its debut sukuk which will be issued by the Development Bank of Kazakhstan (DBK) in the Malaysian market. The DBK, which is 100% owned by the government of Kazakhstan, is working with HSBC and Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) to manage the ringgit-denominated issuance which is effectively a quasi-sovereign offering. The issuance will be listed on the Kazakhstan Stock Exchange, which has developed the infrastructure to list Islamic financial products such as Ijara and Musharaka Sukuk and investment funds.

Kyrgyzstan
Kyrgyzstan introduced sukuk into its securities law in 2016, but the first sukuk (a privately placed Mudarabah sukuk) was only issued in 2023, followed by a number of issues of Sukuk al-Wakalah Bi Al-Istithmar, an investment agency certificate. Kyrgyzstan’s government set a goal to make the Kyrgyz Republic an Islamic finance hub.

Pakistan
Pakistan issued a sukuk of $1 billion to fund a trade deficit with a yield of 5%.

Qatar
Qatar authorities and government related companies are looking into funding for its infrastructure projects by issuing Sukuk. In 2011 Qatar issued 11 percent of global Sukuk.

Saudi Arabia
Saudi Aramco, A Saudi Arabian national petroleum and natural gas company, issued its first ever Sukuk on 6 April 2017. Raising approximately 11.25bn Riyals ($3bn), the move was prompted as a response to the low oil prices.

Later in the same month, the Saudi government raised US$9 billion in sukuk. Half were five-year sukuk with 100 basis point swap spread and the other half had a ten-year tenor with 140 basis point spread. In September 2017, the government sold further domestic sukuk worth 7 billion riyals (US$1.9 billion) and another 4.77 billion riyals (US$1.27 billion) were sold in December. These combined five-year sukuks priced at 2.75%, seven-year ones at 3.25%, and a ten-year tranche at 3.45%.

Singapore
Singapore was the first non-Muslim majority country to issue a Sovereign Sukuk in 2009. Called the MAS Sukuk domestically, it is issued via a wholly owned subsidiary of the Monetary Authority of Singapore – Singapore Sukuk Pte Ltd. The Singapore MAS Sukuk is treated similarly to the conventional Singapore Government Securities ("SGS") in aspects such as compliance with liquidity requirements.

Since then there have been several Sukuk issuances in Singapore by local and foreign issuers. Singapore City Development Limited issued the first Ijara Sukuk in 2009, and Khazanah Shd Bhd issued a SGD1.5 billion Sukuk in 2010 to finance its acquisition of parkway holdings. In 2013, there were 2 new Sukuk Programmes arranged for Singapore listed companies – Swiber Holdings & Vallianz Holdings, with the former issuing a SGD150 million 5-year sukuk in Aug 2013.

Somalia
The Somalia Stock Exchange (SSE) is the national bourse of Somalia. In August 2012, the SSE signed a Memorandum of Understanding to assist it in technical development. The agreement includes identifying appropriate expertise and support. Sharia compliant sukuk bonds and halal equities are also envisioned as part of the deal as the nascent stock market develops.

Turkey
Turkey issued its debut sukuk in October 2012. The October 2012 issuance was a double issuance, with one being in US Dollars (issued on 10 October 2012 for $1.5B), and one being in Turkish Lira (issued on 2 October 2012 for 1.62LRY). According to data from Sukuk.com, the US Dollars issuance was oversubscribed and was initially planned to be for $1 billion, but because of strong demand from the Middle East it was increased to $1.5 billion.

Turkey returned to the Sukuk market in October 2013 with a $1.25B issuance.

United Arab Emirates
As of January 2015, NASDAQ Dubai has listed 18 sukuk valued at a total $24 billion. The latest of these is Fly Dubai. The UAE has also attracted Western investment in the form of GE, which sold a 5-year, $500 million sukuk in 2009, and investment banker Goldman Sachs, which became first conventional U.S. bank to issue sukuk in 2014.

United Kingdom
On 25 June 2014, HM Treasury became the first country outside of the Islamic world to issue a sukuk. This £200 million issue was 11.5 times oversubscribed and was priced at the same level as the equivalent UK Gilts (UK government bonds) at 2.036% pa. The Sukuk was linked to the rental income of UK government property.

Hong Kong
Hong Kong has issued two sovereign Sukuk as of middle of 2015. It issued its first issuance consisting of a 5-year $1 billion Ijara Sukuk in September 2014 offering a profit rate of 2.005%. It issued its second sovereign Sukuk in June 2015 also for $1 billion with a 5-year maturity which used an innovative Wakala structure offering a profit rate of 1.894%.

title: Sukuk


text: File:ST-TNG The Last Outpost.jpg

title: File:ST-TNG The Last Outpost.jpg


text: Template:Emilia–Romagna

title: Template:Emilia–Romagna


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Monkey head monkies

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Joyous 04:13, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Monkey head monkies
Beyond needing cleanup, I don't think this person is notable enough for inclusion, and therefore does not have the potential to become encyclopedic. Google only reveals a handful of hits, mostly local links. Katefan0 21:54, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is an article about an art work by the Atlanta artist, Cooper Sanchez. He gets about 100 to 200 hits on Google. I don't think the artist is notable enough for a Wikipedia article, never mind an article about one of his pieces.   While some art pieces are notable enough in themselves and there is enough verifiable information about them to warrant an article, I think most art works should be covered in the article about the artist who created them.   If Wikipedia ever has an article about Cooper Sanchez (but I don't think it should, at present), it might mention this work.  --BM 16:00, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete this self-promotion. Wyss 20:43, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Limescale

Untitled 2005 post
This needs exapnding quite a lot... anyone up for the challenge? -- 82.3.32.75 21:54, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Untitled 2006 post
Can some information please be provided on the toxicity (or lack thereof) of limescale and related chemicals? Or perhaps a link could be provided to such information --Mydoghasworms 06:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
 * For that matter, maybe someone could say about any of the problems associated with any of it? (If I happen to find anything, I'll still be too busy to write it up tonight, sorry) --195.92.168.164 02:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Correction needed?
"Calcium salts, such as calcium bicarbonate and calcium carbonate are both more soluble in hot water than cold water"

Calcium Carbonate is actually more soluble in cold water:

Glennpsion (talk) 11:44, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Useful Applications?
Has there been any experimenting or studies done to show that this mineral is useful in any way? Because I don't see it in the article. 68.190.116.202 (talk) 11:21, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Eifel marble
There are also small quarries in Roderath and Kall-Urft. The natural stone from these quarries has been sometimes also called "Eifelmarmor". The more correct term therefore would be "Äquaduktenmarmor" (aequaduct marble). The German wiki entry claims a thickness of the layer up to 30 centimeters []. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:E5:173E:5E48:51CE:41E3:71CD:577F (talk) 09:46, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Limescale


text:
Wikipedia:List of sound files

This is the main page for listing full length free content musical works available on Wikipedia or (more often) Wikimedia Commons, with special emphasis on works that are (or should be) linked in Wikipedia articles.

There are separate sub-pages for composer names that begin with the following letters of the alphabet:

If you have trouble playing ogg files, see Media help (Ogg). If you would like to help expand and improve this list, and integrate it with other Wikipedia articles, please visit the free music taskforce.

Smartphones like the iPhone can store and play music listed here, using various free apps such as Capriccio. See /playlist for a sampling of URLs to use with other music players.

Pdproject
A very active uploader of free music to Wikimedia Commons is User:Pdproject at Wikimedia Commons, which is an organization rather than a single individual. Pdproject has also helped to start a Wikimedia Digitization User Group.

At first, Pdproject uploaded old OGG files in single mono quality 16-bit/96 kHz at the beginning of their project. Since August 2014 they have cleaned all 78 rpm records with a RCM (Keith Monks Record Cleaning Machine) and digitized in dual mono 24-Bit/192 kHz. Their plan is to remove all the old OGG files that they uploaded, and replace them with the much better FLAC files. They also plan to adjust the code in Wikipedia articles, so that the code links to the new FLAC files instead of the old OGG files.

Pdproject does not make volume boosts with noise reductions, because they are an archive which produces original files in their original state. This is important for them and all other archives. But Pdproject welcomes Commons users to modify the files and reduce the noise while boosting volume (as long as the original files are preserved). They also do not have the capacity of volunteers like Wikimedia has for such a purpose, even if that purpose were compatible with their archival mission.

Noise filtering
Many music files at Wikimedia Commons are from old vinyl records and therefore contain noise. Theoretically, such a file can be used to create another file from which the noise has been filtered, using a process called record restoration. Here is an example using GoldWave software:

MusikBot
As of October 2015, we have a bot! Thanks to MusikAnimal, we can now check Wikimedia Commons to find ogg, midi, and flac files that are not yet listed in these sound lists, in connection with composers who are listed at list of composers by name. The bot's output for October 2015 is in its userspace, and all of the new files have been added to the sound lists, as of October 2015.

fr:Wikipédia:Liste de fichiers audio

title: Wikipedia:List of sound files


text:
Blok M, Jakarta

Blok M is a business and shopping quarter located in Kebayoran Baru, South Jakarta, Indonesia. It runs east from Iskandarsyah street to Bulungan street in the west. North from Falatehan street to Melawai street in the south. The development is similar to some developments near Kota, West Jakarta. On a daily basis, crowds of people throng its street, and even more so during nighttime. Much of the popularity of the quarter is due to the prices of goods (which are often low due to the relatively inexpensive property costs for vendors), and the nightlife.

Shopping
Mal Blok M, the main shopping portion of the quarter. Built on the terminal basement since 1993. The mall is known for having low prices, but bargaining is considered a requirement. Blok M Square, Blok M Plaza and Pasaraya Grande are the main shopping centres in Blok M. Built in 1992, the Plaza is a modern mall. Pasaraya Grande is a department store run by Abdul Latief. Its two contiguous buildings include a large food court in the basement are international standard with corresponding prices. A movie theatre is at the top floor.

Part of Blok M Square is known as Little Tokyo from its collection of Japanese restaurants, food stalls, karaoke bars and massage parlours.

Clubs and cafés
There are several cafés, Karaoke, massage parlour within the area. Jalan Melawai, which is known as Little Tokyo has many Japanese style restaurants, bars and cafés. Jalan Falatehan also has many cafés, bars and massage parlors.

M Bloc Space
It is a creative complex, which was previously an abandoned housing complex. The place has music venue, trendy restaurants, coffee shops, bar, beauty clinic, record store, museum Gallery and community Hall. The M Bloc Market is an eco-friendly market for small businesses products, such as coffee, fruits and vegetables. It's a popular hangout place, specially among youngsters.

Transportation
Blok M has one of the largest bus stations in Jakarta, which many TransJakarta (via its Blok M bus station) buses depart from. The area is also served by Jakarta MRT with the Blok M BCA MRT station which directly connects to Blok M Plaza.

title: Blok M, Jakarta


text: User talk:204.43.65.1

title: User talk:204.43.65.1


text:
Cooking Channel (Canadian TV channel)

Cooking Channel is a Canadian English language discretionary specialty channel majority-owned by Corus Entertainment. Dedicated to programming related to food and cooking, it serves as a spin-off of Food Network.

The channel was launched in 2001 as SexTV: The Channel under the ownership of CHUM Limited named after the program of the same name aired on Citytv. The channel was acquired in 2006 when Bell Globemedia acquired the assets of CHUM which was completed in 2007 while the Citytv stations were sold to Rogers Media. Corus acquired the channel in 2010 and relaunched it as W Movies, a spin-off of W Network focused on films targeting women. On December 12, 2016, the channel relaunched as a Canadian version of Cooking Channel; following the relaunch, Scripps Networks Interactive took a minority interest in the channel.

As SexTV: The Channel
In June 2001, CHUM Limited received approval by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to launch a national Category 2 specialty channel known as Relationship Television, a channel described as being "devoted exclusively to programming related to love, romance, marriage, relationship-themed game shows, sexuality and gender issues, family planning, relationship breakdown and magazine style programming featuring romantic vacation resorts."

The channel was launched three months later on September 7, 2001 as SexTV: The Channel, a channel modeled after and its name derived from SexTV, a now-former program on Citytv (which was a CHUM-owned property at the time). SexTV aired programming on sex and human sexuality, including issues on love, dating, romance and related subjects.

In July 2006, Bell Globemedia (later CTVglobemedia) announced that it would purchase CHUM for an estimated CAD$1.7 billion. Due to CTV planning to retain the Citytv network, SexTV: The Channel was among the channels along with A-Channel, Access, CKX-TV Brandon and CLT to be sold to Rogers Communications on April 9, 2007, awaiting the final approval. The sale was approved by the CRTC on June 8, 2007, on the condition that CTV must divest the Citytv stations, effectively cancelling the sale of SexTV: The Channel to Rogers and the transaction was completed on June 22, 2007 while the Citytv stations were sold to Rogers later that year.

As W Movies
On July 14, 2009, CTVglobemedia announced that it would sell Sex TV, along with Drive-In Classics (then Sundance Channel, now defunct), to Corus Entertainment for a combined CAD$40 million. In late September, Corus announced that the channel would be rebranded as W Movies, a spin-off of W Network with a focus on films targeting women. The sale was approved by the CRTC on November 19, with the transaction being completed by December. The on-air relaunch as W Movies took place on March 1, 2010.

On December 2, 2011, W Movies launched a high definition feed. It is currently available through all major television providers in the country.

As Cooking Channel
On October 19, 2016, Corus announced that W Movies would be relaunched as a Canadian version of Cooking Channel on December 12, 2016. The network served as a spin-off of Corus's Canadian version of Food Network, and came shortly after Bell Media's re-launch of Gusto, which competes directly against Food Network. Scripps Networks Interactive subsequently acquired a 19.8% interest in the channel.

Programming
The Cooking Channel airs programming identical to its U.S. counterpart, focusing primarily on instruction- and personality-based programming largely displaced by Food Network's current focus on reality and competition-style series.

As SexTV: The Channel, the network aired programming devoted to human sexuality including issues on love, dating, romance and related subjects. Past programs on the network included Sex Wars: Gender in the Age of Representation, Beyond Carnival: Sex in Brazil, and Sexploration.

title: Cooking Channel (Canadian TV channel)


text:
Talk:Xi (letter)

Xi, the VLSI story
Anyone know what Xi has to do with Very Large Scale Integration (VLSI) or circuit design? It looks like a language for VLSI design. Fill this in if you know.

Origin of name Xi
How did the name xi originate?? Georgia guy 22:31, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Because... uh... it stands for the sound [ks]? If you're looking for a deeper meaning than that, you're going to be disappointed. Though actually, it's a vaguely sensible question, as xi (unlike, say, alpha, beta, gamma, delta (letter)...) isn't named for the Phonecian letter it came from, probably because the Phonecian samekh represents a different sound, namely [s]. It's also probably because it was a slightly later development. 69.140.12.199 00:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, sigma got its name from samekh. So why did the Greeks make this letter out of samekh and sigma out of shin?? Georgia guy 01:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * short answer: nobody knows. "The problem of the sibilants is created by the existence of too many s sounds in Phoenician and too few in Greek" (Barry Powell, Homer and the Origin of the Greek Alphabet, 46). See Jeffery, The Local Scripts of Archaic Greece p. 32, for one hypothesis (Phoenician Samekh and Shin got mixed up with each other so that the Greeks called Ξ "kshi(n)" and Σ "Samekh", and also coincidentally they mixed up Tsade and Zayin). -leigh (φθόγγος) 02:57, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the Greek borrowing of zayin is zeta, which was a new name made in imitation of eta and theta, not a name that indicates it was mixed-up with another letter. Georgia guy 23:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Try this article. (Over nine years later, but an answer is better than none, right?) Double sharp (talk) 09:46, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Xi does not come from Samekh, as noted above Sigma is the correlate to Samekh, in fact the lowercase Sigma σ resembles the hebrew samekh in use today ס. Xi is likely related to Chet, phonetic drift is predictable there and also the Phoenician Chet resembles the greek uppercase Xi Ξ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.171.88 (talk) 22:11, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Can someone please add a sound clip of the 'proper' greek pronunciation, as a (native) english speaker i find this very hard to pronounce from ksi.
 * You also don't wit the differense between i and I. The letter|staffr csi in Latin is csee in English.  Forget the Thewdish k, which should be ah aspirant. -lysdexia 21:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll add my name to the list of anglophones hoping for a sound clip. --WanderingHermit 01:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Two points:
 * the pronounciation guide is (presumably) IPA. I can follow it, but it may be better to have a link in the article.
 * currently there's a note about "US English speakers". I am rewording this to de-emphasise their importance. I assume that "American English speakers" is intended, so I will change this.
 * —DIV (128.250.204.118 (talk) 07:25, 17 November 2007 (UTC))

Could we change the guide on pronunciation to include clear indications of the system being used as a guide (for example "IPA:/kʰai/ like the English "kite"). The phonetic English transcriptions are particularly confusing without examples. 58.240.105.189 (talk) 13:09, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The pronunciation in IPA is like the words "ox eel", run into one word and with the "o" and "l" missed off. I'm not convinced by the stated "usual" English pronunciation of (like "sigh"), which is exactly the same as the "usual" pronunciation for psi quoted in that article. Working in mathematics, I've only ever heard it pronounced as (like "ox eye" run together and without the "o"), with psi being pronounced either  or. Dricherby (talk) 11:50, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

The simple answer is to say the word "kicks" (the ball), and then just not say the "ki" part. ResultingConstant (talk) 21:48, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I am going to change the stated 'usual' English pronunciation to. is the usual English pronunciation of Psi. We cant be probagating misinformation about how things are pronounced. and X is NEVER pronounced as S in English anyway, so that pronunciation for this letter doesn't even remotely make sense! (unlike the Z pronunciation, though I've never heard this letter pronounced this way). we learned the the pronunciation as /ksi/ ('ksee') in school..but Phi Chi and Psi were the 'usual' /fai/ /chai/ /sai/. Firejuggler86 (talk) 08:50, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Layout problem in Opera
I'm viewing this article in Opera in Linux, and the "The lower-case letter ξ is used as a symbol for..." section overlaps the "A joined variant of Ξ." image. I've tried several things to get this to stop, but haven't had success. –Justin Force 15:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm using Opera in Windows and I'm not having that problem. It might not be an Opera issue, or it could be your Opera settings.

ξ・∀・）
ξ・∀・） —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.17.161 (talk) 20:18, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Get out of here, Marupo! No one wants your Touhou memes in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.84.89.90 (talk) 02:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

ξ☢ ﾟ ヮﾟ） 96.231.55.180 (talk) 02:42, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Move
So someone moved the page without a discussion. I think it should be (letter) since that is what Xi is. I tried to move it, but it said an administrator needs to. Any thoughts? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 03:21, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

equivalence sign
I guess that character is missing from my font. —Tamfang (talk) 02:55, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Damping ratio
I've previously removed the damping ratio (factor) usage for this letter - but it's come back. I can't find any reference where this quantity is not represented by the letter zeta. These letters can look similar, so it may be just a mistake. Unless some reference can be found for this, I shall re-remove it at some point. --catslash (talk) 10:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I was just googling -Xi damping ratio- and found this talk page and just wanted to share, I've had a professor that uses Xi for damping ratio — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.146.11 (talk) 17:47, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Capitalization?
Is it proper to capitalize names of letters of alphabets? (Is it "Xi" or is it "xi"?) Robert K S (talk) 17:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Development of glyph
The origins of the letter need to be covered. ᛭ LokiClock (talk) 16:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Jeffdgr8, 20 October 2010
Please change "" to "" as this should be the proper pronunciation in English. The pronunciation as it is now is for the letter Psi. Source: English pronunciation of Greek letters.

Jeffdgr8 (talk) 22:43, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The current pronunciation is how it is in the dictionary. Thanks, Stickee (talk)  01:22, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The source referenced within English pronunciation of Greek letters that states otherwise is http://wwwexe.inf.ufsc.br/~arthur/material_didatico/AlfabetoGrego.pdf. Also http://www.webtopos.gr/eng/languages/greek/alphabet/chart1.htm. In any case the two pages do not agree.

Jeffdgr8 (talk) 17:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Those two sources shouldn't be used for English pronunciation; one is in Portuguese and comes from a user directory of a Brazilian university(?) and the other concerns the Greek pronunciation. An English dictionary is a better source for the pronunciation in English. Celestra (talk) 16:42, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the second link gives both Greek and English pronunciation for each letter. But as you say, it's not really a good source. — Eru·tuon 20:05, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Mapppum, 2 October 2011
There is a use of lowercase xi not in the list, which is the Wadsworth Constant. This is a popular meme created by Reddit users which has already grown to widespread use. It was created on this thread.

Mapppum (talk) 03:18, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: No. Stop trying every means possible to get this non-notable idea into Wikipedia.  After it's written up in a newspaper article or academic journal, come back and see us again. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:32, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Add Greek Name
Most of the other greek letters have a section like "(uppercase Η, lowercase η; Greek: Ήτα Ēta)". It would be nice to have similar one here including the Greek name for the letter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maliberty (talk • contribs) 18:07, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Alternative stylization with vertical bar
In modern Greece, xi is often written with a vertical bar down the middle from top to bottom, so perhaps that should be mentioned in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.139.51.6 (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

 * By the way, the Ξ glyph has a vertical bar in the Trebuchet MS font. Siealex (talk) 19:08, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Xi (letter). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120629101118/http://goldbook.iupac.org/E02283.html to http://goldbook.iupac.org/E02283.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:47, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I originally wanted to add “Not to be confused with 三, the Chinese character for 3." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.78.56.189 (talk) 00:49, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Bad math?
The article says " In the system of Greek numerals, it has a value of 60". when I follow the link to that article (Greek numerals), it does not show this. Additionally, I know that XI equals eleven, does the lower case "i" make a difference? And if we are linking the other article, shouldn't we make sure that the other article also backs up what is being claimed here? As far as I can tell, it does not.  Despayre  tête-à-tête 17:39, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Greek numerals shows this. XI in the Roman numeral system are two characters, together representing eleven. Just plain Bill (talk) 19:22, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
 * It would have been more precise if it used the Greek orthography, rather than the English name for the letter. The table shows variously, $\overline{ξ}$ and Ξʹ as being used to represent 60 in the system of Greek numerals. —DIV (49.195.177.247 (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2021 (UTC))

Pronunciation revisionism?
A lot of TV presenters have been referring to this letter with the same pronunciation as the President of China's surname. I wouldn't put much stock in that, as I'd never heard anyone pronouncing Greek letter Xi as she (or similar) prior to the last month or so. But could this Greek academic actually be correct? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-02/why-we-hear-about-some-covid-19-variants-more-than-others/13658624 —DIV (49.195.177.247 (talk) 11:19, 13 December 2021 (UTC))

title: Talk:Xi (letter)


text:
Talk:Irish conjugation

Copyright status
I have started to move my Irish linguistics pages from http://www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~green/gaeilge/gaeilge.htm, where I can no longer edit them, to Wikipedia. The work is entirely mine, so there are no copyvio problems. --Angr 22:02, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Subjunctive
It's a great source of information. I am a fifth year in Dublin, and am wondering if the subjunctive will be added soon? thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.202.188.59 (talk • contribs) on May 1, 2005.
 * I've just added an entire section on the Subjuctive Mood in Irish there for anyone who needs help understanding it! naddlem--Naddlem (talk) 02:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Infinitives
Which category of infinitive would a construct such as ceist a chur fall? I understand that chur here is a lenited form of the verbal noun, but how does "a" come into play? Thanks!--Ag Foghlaim 20:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A is used to separate a verbal noun from its preceding direct object. Historically it's derived from the preposition do "to", so syntactically ceist a chur is identical to German eine Frage zu stellen. The difference is that in German, all the complements of the verb precede the infinitive, while in Irish, only the direct object does. So if you want to say something like "I'd prefer to ask him a question at 3:00 under the oak tree", in Irish it comes out as "I'd prefer a question to ask at 3:00 under the oak tree to him", while in German it comes out as "I'd prefer to him at 3:00 under the oak tree a question to ask." —Angr 07:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Angr, this helps. What is the precise grammatical term for the "a"+"verbal noun" construct, if there is one?  Would it make sense to add this information to this article?  The reason I am asking is because all my study materials seem to use this construct without any explanation.  While intuitively I understood how it works, actually seeing how it falls into the grammatical system was helpful.--Ag Foghlaim 15:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there is a precise grammatical term for. It's cursorily mentioned at Irish syntax. —Angr 15:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Darn, I was hoping for more than that. My problem is that while I can recognize this form in the text and translate it correctly (Gaeilge-Béarla), I am never sure if I myself use it right (Béarla-Gaeilge).  That may, of course, be because I need more practice.  Thanks anyway, every little bit helps!--Ag Foghlaim 15:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry! My expertise is phonology, not syntax, and I'm not a native speaker. My instinct is to use the Noun + a + VN construction whenever the noun is the direct object of a VN, unless the VN is being used to form a progressive (with ag) or a perfective (with tar éis or i ndiaidh). So Is fearr liom ceist a chur, but Tá mé ag cur ceist and Tá mé i ndiaidh cur ceist. —Angr 15:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh no, no need to apologize. I understand very well that you are not a native speaker.  Native speakers, however, are for some reason generally not at all as eager to answer my periodic barrages of questions as you are, and your answers are always helpful.  I'll keep what you said in mind and, of course, keep practicing.  At the very least I now know for sure that my intuitive perception was not completely wrong.--Ag Foghlaim 19:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Verbal noun formation
Are some verbal nouns identical to the verbs they are formed from? I was reading through Irish phonology and saw "óil "drinking" (genitive)", which makes me think the verbal noun from ól is also ól. If my interpretation is correct, this would be a useful addition to the section on verbal nouns here. Lesgles (talk) 18:48, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, some verbal nouns are identical to the verbs they're formed from. (The citation form of verbs is the 2nd person singular imperative, so it would be more accurate to say some verbal nouns are identical to the 2nd person singular imperatives of the verbs they're formed from.) This is true for all the verbs with the suffix -áil as well as for a few other verbs like ól. Angr (talk) 21:27, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Synthetic forms of irregular verbs
I see what appear to be incomplete words for some of the synthetic forms of irregular verbs. I presume one would add person-specific endings to complete these words, but (and I'm sorry if I just missed a section somewhere) I don't see what these endings would be. Are they mentioned somewhere on this article? Is my presumption incorrect?

74.69.69.55 (talk) 21:13, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Irish conjugation