text:
Talk:Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham

Chromatic Aberration
The suffers horribly from Chromatic aberration. It seems the photo was taken by a wikipedia user who is no longer on very often. This can be fixed easily if the RAW data is available, but I doubt we will be able to get it. Suggest someone local get a better shot of the location to replace the current photo. Gtwy (talk) 00:47, 27 August 2014 (UTC) I've done a quick fix on it for the time being. Mighty Antar (talk) 12:40, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

'soviet target'
Is the 'soviet target' relevant? Surely that would have applied to most strategic routes in the UK? Is this text repeated in the descriptions of the Houses of Parliament etc? Or more up-to-date, a handly list of terrorist targets in the UK? I need to flag my scarcasm here. However, the IRA did leave a small semtex device under the M6 near this junction in April 1997. Fortunately the bomb was safely defused, which is why the occasion has been largely forgotten.--217.42.93.182 18:14, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Add an image
Any junction that "is so named for its impressive system of intertwined loops and ramps" deserves an image Ae-a 22:56, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Not a tourist attraction
Although it generated a lot of interest when it first opened - as the first such junction in England, it's not a tourist attraction in the 21st century. Hence I removed it from Category:Visitor attractions in Birmingham, England.

What do you mean? I see hundreds of caravans parked up there every bank holiday weekend...--135.196.104.154 (talk) 07:28, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Gravelly Hill Interchange or Junction
I've reverted the header from Gravelly Hill Junction to Gravelly Hill Interchange (twice now) for the following reasons:

-- Tivedshambo (talk) 16:41, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Although "Gravelly Hill Interchange" is more of an Americanism, it is more widespread in usage (390 hits on Google, against 4 for "Gravelly Hill Junction". It is also the official name.
 * I live only 2 miles from it, and never hear of it described as "Gravelly Hill Junction". (Spaghetti Junction is the usual name).
 * "Gravelly Hill Interchange" is the title of the article, and the header should reflect this.

 * Is there any reason this article isn't at something like Spaghetti Junction (Birmingham) anyway? Morwen - Talk 20:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

 * None that I can think of, if you're willing to update any redirects and redirects that will arise if you move the page. One title is the official name, the other is common usage. I think either would be acceptable. Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham already exists as a re-direct. — Tivedshambo (talk to me/look at me/ignore me) — 13:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think I prefer to use the official name in this case, as it better includes the rail and canal network that passes underneath the road junction. DWaterson 13:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Since "traffic circles" are less common in the US, these highway interchanges, when more complex, are also referred as "Circle interchanges", which in Chicago, gave the original "U of Illinois "Congress Circle Campus" ('60s) later known as Chicago Circle Campus ('70s-'90s), and now UI-Chicago (UIC) it's official name. Should reference to an "Expressway Circle {Highway interchange}" or something similar, also be indexed on this page? ChgoJohn (talk) 18:31, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Satellite images
A map or aerial photograph would be very useful on this article. However, please ensure that any sources comply with Wikipedia's copyright policy. This excludes screenshots taken from Google Earth for example.– Tivedshambo (talk) 12:49, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I just made my first edit to Wikipedia (that I can remember) and it was to add links to both Google satellite and the Live.com Bird's Eye view. There's no copyright issue with links is there? Thegallery 05:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Not a problem - it would only be an issue if you (for example) uploaded a screenshot and put that in the article. Linking to copyright material is quite acceptable. It could be argued that it is duplication, as the google maps link can be obtained through the co-ordinate link, though in this case I think a direct link is helpful. – Tivedshambo (talk) 07:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Cultural references
I'm inclined to agree with this edit of User:John's. There is very little here which, even if sourced, is of more than passing relevance to the article. Possibly the Cliff Richard film could be included if the junction played a significant part (I don't know the film so I can't say). Other than that, I'd say wipe the lot. Any thoughts? —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 09:56, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In the absence of any discussion, I've removed it. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 07:39, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Removal of it being a target for a nuclear weapon
I just removed "The importance of the site for so many services led to the belief that it was a strategic target for a Soviet nuclear weapon during the Cold War, although this has yet to be verified." This is speculative and unverified. Sounds like the stuff of urban legends to me. I mean if Birmingham were nuked, losing spaghetti junction would have been the last of our problems. It would probably be destroyed by it anyway. Of course, I take this all back if anyone can verify it. RupertMillard (Talk) 23:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Birmingham Mail's role in creating Spaghetti Junction legend
I have reverted the changes made recently which were entirely based upon an article published in the Birmingham Mail in May this year. The article is a piece of self-promotion for the Mail but doesn't provide any substantive evidence for it's conclusions. It mentions 1965, but what is needed is an article from the Mail published in 1965 otherwise they are referring to the pull-out they published in 1972 at the same time as the name "Spagetti Junction" appeared in The Times article I had already provided a source for. Mighty Antar (talk) 18:30, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you take another look at it? Looks like something went wrong with your edit and the article currently contains both versions, and contradicts itself. I can't quite work out what you meant to leave though. Qwfp (talk) 18:53, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME
Surely, per WP:COMMONNAME this article should be under the name “Spaghetti Junction”? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it referred to ad=s “Gravelly Hill Interchange”. Just checking if there are any objections before I make the move. DeCausa (talk)
 * No objection. But, just to point out that the article Spaghetti junction already exists, so you'd have to call it "Spaghetti Junction (UK)" or something similar. Also bear in mind that the Worsley Braided Interchange was initially known locally as "Spaghetti Junction" so you might also need a hatnote for that. --  Dr Greg  talk 21:13, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for alerting me to that article. It seems very poorly sourced; most of the “spaghetti junctions” in that article are unsourced. Several of the sources that are there fail verification on checking. I think I found only 3 of the “spaghetti junctions” as properly sourced - with only one (in Atlanta) as clearly habitually referred to as that. None of the sources refer to “spaghetti junction” as a generic name for a complex interchange as that article claims. Chronologically the Birmingham one is clearly the first. I’ll do some more digging but my first thoughts are that the Birmingham junction should be the primary article with individual articles for the two or three others that has sourcing to pass WP:V - unless there’s a source that discusses “spaghetti junctions” as a generic concept, not currently in that article. DeCausa (talk) 21:31, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree that the other article seems to be a list of complicated interchanges with very little evidence that any of them are actually known as "Spaghetti Junction". --  Dr Greg  talk 21:52, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 24 April 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Common name arguments hit a snag because forcing the move to just "Spaghetti Junction" would require this junction to be the primary topic, a premise that has no consensus in its favour. A new RM can be opened for whether we stay here for good or move to disambiguated titles like "Spaghetti Junction (Birmingham)", but the simple name "Spaghetti Junction" is emerging as not viable. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 13:17, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Gravelly Hill Interchange → Spaghetti Junction – This is the common name for the junction, and what appears most prominently in sources. For example : BBC News, BBC News, Birmingham Mail, ITV. Note that some sources call it the Spaghetti Junction, but I don't think there's enough for a consensus there. Per the above thread, the existing article with this name is problematic, with entries both unsourced and failing verification; nevertheless, I would propose that article should be merged with Spaghetti Junction (disambiguation). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:16, 24 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 晚安 (トークページ) 15:46, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

 * Comment as can be seen from the above thread i’m generally supportive. The only thing that’s giving me pause are the other junctions with that name outside of the UK. I meant to follow up that thread with some further research, but never got round to it. From an initial review I did think that in the US in was applied as a generic descriptive name with some specific local names. As a Brit, to me “Spaghetti Junction” only means the one in Birmingham but I didn’t really bottom out whether that stands up from a global perspective. I wonder whether Spaghetti Junction (Birmingham) or some such would be better? Or is the proposal that the scope of the article be both the Birmingham junction and other uses including the generic description? DeCausa (talk) 10:35, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

 * I think that's a fair comment. The principal reason for choosing the Birmingham one as the primary topic is that I think it is the one that is dominated by specific references in multiple reliable sources. However, I'm also aware that all of the sources I have looked at have a UK bias. If somebody can present an equivalent number of sources that show a nationally, or even internationally, prominent junction of the same name in the US (or any other country), then some sort of disambiguated article title would make more sense. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:54, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Support As that is how it is mentioned. I don't recall anybody calling it "Gravelly Hill Interchange". GenuineArt (talk) 10:58, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The Tom Moreland Interchange in Atlanta is referred to as the spaghetti junction, but I think more often in North America we'd use Spaghetti Interchange. -  Floydian  τ ¢ 11:00, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose yes it is commonly described this way (even as a proposer noun) but it seems to be formerly known as "Gravelly Hill Interchange". Also per Floydian there appear to be other junctions nicknamed "Spaghetti Junction" and many other spaghetti junctions even in England so this would be too ambiguous. This may suggest using Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham but that doesn't seem necessary per WP:NATURAL. We have a formal and unambiguous name that we should use.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:36, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It was known as Spaghetti Junction (or at least described thus) at least six years before it opened. Or do you mean formally, which is not what WP:COMMONNAME says. As mentioned above, the other Spaghetti Junctions appear to be either non-notable or don't have anywhere near enough comparable coverage in sources. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  17:49, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Support. Very clear common name and definite primary topic for this name. Everyone calls it Spaghetti Junction, including the news and the traffic reports. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:14, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. While Spaghetti Junction may be the common name for this interchange, I'm not convinced it is the primary topic. The Tom Moreland Interchange in Atlanta is also well known as the Spaghetti Junction. See    . The Kennedy Interchange in Louisville gets a fair number of hits too. See  .  -- Vaulter  13:48, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose as this is not a primary topic over the Tom Moreland Interchange. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:33, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * What about Spaghetti Junction (UK) as mentioned above? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  20:35, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably not necessary per WP:NATURAL since the actual name is unambiguous and reasonably common even though "Spaghetti Junction" is sometimes used by sources. Also it would be Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham not Spaghetti Junction (UK). I knew the junction was called "Gravelly Hill Interchange" long before coming across this page so while "Spaghetti Junction" may have some formal use I don't think its desirable over the actual name.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 22:05, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I seriously doubt “Gravelly Hill Junction” is anyway as well known as “Spaghetti junction”. Indeed, if you google it the few times it comes up it’s almost always caveated with “better known as” Spaghetti junction, or similar eg this BBC article. DeCausa (talk) 22:16, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Unnecessary. I prefer using the official name of infrastructure like this generally -- it's more consistent and likely to remain unambiguous. Elli (talk | contribs) 22:42, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This does seem be be supported by WP:FLORACOMMONNAME where we use the actual name rather than a nickname which is ambiguous.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:01, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Spaghetti Junction not being a plant, I don’t see how it supports it. DeCausa (talk) 16:34, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The same principal applies, the current name is ambiguous and formal and is what it could be called anywhere while the proposed one is ambiguous especially with other junctions like Tom Moreland Interchange.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:37, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

 * Strong support. While other junctions may have subsequently adopted the name in other countries, Gravelly Hill Interchange easily predates them and whatever it is known as officially, everyone in the UK knows it is Spagetti Junction.Mighty Antar (talk) 19:13, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Being older means nothing, and that is not true anyways; the UK has generally been late to the game when it comes to highways, but even another junction in the UK had this name nearly a decade earlier. - Floydian τ ¢ 16:42, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

*Strong support I live next to the junction and have done for years per WP:COMMONNAME it should be Spaghetti Junction. And I don’t think users who live outside of the UK such as User:Floydian realise that NO one calls it the Gravely Hill Interchange.Beingakardashian (talk) 18:12, 24 May 2022 (UTC)  strike sock--  Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 20:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support: Gravelly Hill Interchange has never, ever been the WP:COMMONNAME of this structure.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose. The London Underground is probably better known locally as "the Tube", but that isn't its real name. Given the obvious chance for name collisions I think it's inappropriate to claim a term which is now applied to a variety of junctions. I propose instead that spaghetti junction's etymology section (or at least more of it) should be merged with the lede, so that the relevant information about this being the first one - as appears to be the case page - is given immediately and directs people looking for the UK one to the right place, rather than having to scroll through a page of countries in the Table of Contents. If carefully constructed it might even make the search engine results, which is currently not the case for e.g. DuckDuckGo for this term (the hatnote is being discounted). That would give it much of the benefit of being a primary topic without having to lose what is, after all, an official name, and an informative one. That page might even be renamed to list of spaghetti junctions, which is essentially what it has become. GreenReaper (talk) 02:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The London Underground is very commonly known by that name. Nobody calls Spaghetti Junction Gravelly Hill Interchange! Not even the traffic reports. Most people wouldn't even know what it was. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * But "Gravelly Hill Interchange" is unambiguous and likely stable in contrast to many "official" names that often change, per WP:CRITERIA while I agree "Gravelly Hill Interchange" may not be recognizable by many people at least its unambiguous and is the actual name of the junction as opposed to its more common (and somewhat formal) but ambiguous nickname similar to WP:FLORACOMMONNAME there are lots of junctions nicknamed "Spaghetti Junction" even in England but there seems to only be 1 "Gravelly Hill Interchange". While we can use ambiguous nicknames over actual names I don't think we need to here, the article Spaghetti junction (which deals with both the generic concept "Spaghetti junction" and specific junction named "Spaghetti Junction") already links to the Birmingham one at the top.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:02, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose there are dozens of interchanges around the globe nicknamed "spaghetti junction" or "spaghetti interchange". Britain is neither special, nor in this case (since it seems to be oh-so-important when it comes to place names) the first. The Jane Byrne Interchange was called Spaghetti Junction when it opened in 1963, (Note that there are about 2 dozen articles from 1963 that refer to it by this name), the I-64/65 interchange in Louisville Kentucky was called it when it opened in 1965, and I could easily add a bunch of other examples from a quick search on newspapers.com. - Floydian τ ¢ 16:42, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That's still kind of irrelevant; Spaghetti Junction (Birmingham) is perfectly acceptable. - Floydian τ ¢ 18:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham but yes I'm someone in the UK and I oppose this.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:30, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Strong oppose As Floydian notes above, it is not the first with this name. It may be the best known intersection by this name in the UK, but coming from a United States perspective, when I hear the term I think of three examples in the United States, and not this interchange. It is also used generically in the United States as a description of a complicated intersection design. This article is not about the definitive nor the generic case of a "Spaghetti Junction", so I oppose. ( If it were proposed that this article to be renamed to Spaghetti Junction (Birmingham) that would address my objections. But I  would guess that would make it harder, not easier, to find this article.) Benthatsme (talk) 23:04, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose due to presence of Tom Moreland Interchange and many others, agree with Eli and Floydian. Venkat TL (talk) 05:31, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 9 June 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  04:53, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Gravelly Hill Interchange → Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham – Pretty much a continuation of the previous RM, as suggested by the closer. I appreciate the arguments re the Tom Moreland Interchange mean this isn't the primary topic, but we still need to consider the WP:COMMONNAME aspect - no sources refer to the interchange by its formal title; all use "Spaghetti Junction". Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  17:51, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ✅ Dr. Vogel (talk) 05:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support: This looks OK, as it removes the argument about there being other junctions with this name.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 18:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:NATURAL, in this case using the actual name seems preferable as a tie-breaker. The name "Gravelly Hill Interchange" while less common in everyday speech is at least sometimes used (per the Roads.org source) and was a name I knew (not being an expert) so using the "official" name seems preferable here.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 19:58, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support This completely solves the issue that muddied the water on the last RfC. “Gravelly Hill” is completely unknown and is hardly ever used - some form of Spaghetti Junction is clearly WP:COMMONNAME and this proposal is a suitable disambiguator so that it can be used. DeCausa (talk) 20:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support, seems to meet every criterion Red   Slash  18:51, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 10:09, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - nothing more to say, it's already been said. - Floydian τ ¢ 13:42, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:NATURAL, explained by Crouch, Swale. A redirect is all that is needed here to assist page readers. --Venkat TL (talk) 13:52, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:NATURAL? that says Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names. Gravelly Hill Interchange doesn’t qualify as “also commonly called”. It’s virtually unused in RS. No one calls it that in the UK. It does, howver, qualify as “obscure”. DeCausa (talk) 13:58, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I note that BBC news article (an RS) from 3 weeks ago starts with the line "Thousands of motorists travel through the Gravelly Hill Interchange on the outskirts of Birmingham.... So much for an obscure Venkat TL (talk) 16:01, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I've commonly seen it as "Gravelly Hill Interchange" in sources over the years and that's its "official" name and unlike "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations" or "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which is arguably more a descriptive name, "Gravelly Hill Interchange" does seem to be the actual name rather than a long obscure descriptive name. As a UK resident I'd never heard the name "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" until looking on Wikipedia and I'd be surprised if I found it at "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" while I'd expect "Gravelly Hill Interchange".  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:07, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Venkat TL, that’s a rather strange example to cite. There are 15 references to it as “Spaghetti Junction” in that item, including the headline “Spaghetti Junction at 50: What lies beneath?”. The one mention of “Gravelly Hill Interchange” amongst those 15 is as a point of curiosity confirming its obscurity: Thousands of motorists travel through the Gravelly Hill Interchange on the outskirts of Birmingham at every hour of every day. The vast majority of drivers on the M6 motorway know it simply as Spaghetti Junction… (Crouch, Swale: it’s official name qua WP:official name is, of course, an irrelevance.) DeCausa (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Very clear common name, even used on traffic reports (in fact, here in the West Midlands the traffic reporters usually just refer to it as "Spaghetti" - everyone knows what they're talking about). Most people wouldn't even know where Gravelly Hill Interchange was. It's been known almost exclusively as Spaghetti Junction pretty much since it opened. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:57, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose per my comments in the previous discussion. Using the official name here is beneficial for consistency and clarity. It serves as effective natural disambiguation. Elli (talk | contribs) 18:43, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Move now
Gravelly Hill Interchange → Spaghetti Junction – This is the common name for the junction, and what appears most prominently in sources. For example : BBC News, BBC News, Birmingham Mail, ITV. Note that some sources call it theSpaghetti Junction, but I don't think there's enough for a consensus there. Per the above thread, the existing article with this name is problematic, with entries both unsourced and failing verification; nevertheless, I would propose that article should be merged with Spaghetti Junction (disambiguation). 195.195.4.115 (talk) 02:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

 * This isn't a formal move request and the current title is the result of the discussion above. "Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham" was agreed on because there are other junctions in the world that have acquired this nickname. Gravelly Hill Interchange is the official name but this is hardly ever used; see WP:COMMONNAME.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Spaghetti Junction, Birmingham


text: User talk:205.188.116.133

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:205.188.116.133


text: Talk:Mu Alpha Theta

title: Talk:Mu Alpha Theta


text:
Talk:Rouen

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 September 2018 and 6 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Meganly, Emanel2, Sarahbethea.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2019 and 14 June 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pjbpdx, Jjher7030, Swiftkick98.

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History
I added citation for William the Conqueror moving his residence to Caen. Swiftkick98 (talk) 23:03, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Population
This is confusing: "Rouen (population 110,000) is a city situated on the Seine river in Normandy, northern France. Population of the metropolitan area (in French: aire urbaine) at the 1999 census was 518,316... Rouen is part of Agglomération de Rouen Haute-Normandie which gathers 34 towns and 391,375 inhabitants" - does a large part of the metro area lie outside the agglomeration? If not the populations are wrong... if so, it is a bit counterintuitive! --VivaEmilyDavies 18:16, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * You are confusing two different things. On the one hand is the Communauté d'agglomération de Rouen, which is an administrative unit, on the other hand is the metropolitan area (aire urbaine) of Rouen, which is not an administrative unit, but a geographical concept. Check communauté d'agglomération and aire urbaine if you want to understand the difference. The Communauté d'agglomération de Rouen does not include all of the communes that are inside the metropolitan area, because some refused to join in, that's why there are less inhabitants living in the communauté d'agglomération than in the metropolitan area. Hardouin 20:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Clock
This page says the astronomical clock in Gros Horloge street is from the 16th Century; the astronomical clock page says 14th Century. Anyone know which is correct? Moonraker12 12:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * According to fr:Gros Horloge: L'horloge enchâssée dans l'arche est l'une des plus anciennes de France : le mouvement a été fabriqué en 1389. L'horloge en elle-même a été installée en 1587, L'arche a été édifiée entre 1527 et 1529. So the arch in which it is placed is early C16th, the clock surroundings are late C16th, but the clock movement itself is late C14th. It depends what the meaning of "astronomical clock" is... Man vyi 14:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that; I've fixed them both to fit. Moonraker12 14:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Heraldry
David V Houston (talk) 20:33, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Joke
Rouen cathedral used to read Notre dame cathedral, which is incorrect because The Notre Dame cathedral is a completely separate cathedral in Paris

There are something like 85 cathedrals in France (I mean "bishop's churches" that is the meaning of the word "cathedral") and 33 out of 85 are called Notre-Dame. Better to have a bit of basic knowledge before adding things about subjects you do not know.

Nortmannus (talk) 19:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Joke II
Why does the article so tactfully fail to mention the civilian French casualties of the Allied bombing raids on Rouen in 1944? Ontologix (talk) 03:52, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Rouen
What is missing from the somewhat recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 10:18, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

History section
(copied from User talk:M2545 for wider discussion)

Hi M2545, I just happened to look at the article for Rouen (mainly because I drove past the other day and was interested to find out about the place). It struck me as odd that the article talks mainly about "technicalities", while the history has been moved to a separate article. At the same time, the history article is reasonably short so that made me wonder why it was moved into a separate article. My gut feeling was to merge this back into the main article to make that one more balanced and well-rounded. As you split the articles at the time, I was wondering what your thoughts are? Regards, pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 11:24, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Hi I agree the "History" section in the main Rouen article should have a few paragraphs summarizing the city's history. The separate History of Rouen was created because the city is quite old, and has had an eventful history; the article could be expanded and improved, especially in terms of its sources. Also, the French language version has 36,744 bytes, while the English language one contains only 13,639 bytes at present. -- M2545 (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * To be honest, compared to Paris or Stuttgart (two cities I picked randomly), the history article about Rouen already seems like a summary. I don't think it makes sense to summarise this even further without making the history part look like a stub in comparison to other well rounded sections. My instinct would be to merge the history article back into the main article (with redirect - as it was before) until such a point where someone with French skills can take the native article and build on that. pseudonym Jake Brockman talk 13:57, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

 * It would make sense to copy and paste this discussion to the Talk page of the Rouen article. Do you agree? -- M2545 (talk) 11:17, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Notable people who were born in Rouen
I added a composer and musicologist who has become known today and who was born in Rouen. Natanael cairo (talk) 06:44, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Notable people, photos
Under "Notable people" there are six photos.

 * Every single one* of those six photos concerns the same man. M. Pinchon is not *that* notable that there should be six photos of him and his work on the Rouen page. TooManyFingers (talk) 23:15, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Good point. I nixed four of the pics. Eric talk 02:41, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rouen


text: User talk:69.137.229.94

title: User talk:69.137.229.94


text: Category:910 deaths

title: Category:910 deaths


text:
Christopher Newman Hall

Christopher Newman Hall (22 May 1816 – 18 February 1902), born at Maidstone and known in later life as a 'Dissenter's Bishop', was one of the most celebrated nineteenth century English Nonconformist divines. He was active in social causes; supporting Abraham Lincoln and abolition of slavery during the American Civil War, the Chartist cause, and arranging for influential Nonconformists to meet Gladstone. His tract Come to Jesus, first published in 1848 also contributed to his becoming a household name throughout Britain, the US and further afield, supposedly selling four million copies worldwide over his lifetime.

Early life and the Albion Chapel
Christopher Newman Hall's father was John Vine Hall (1774–1860), proprietor and printer of the Maidstone Journal, and the author of a popular evangelical work called The Sinner's Friend. Christopher's first university degree was a London University BA in theology obtained at Highbury College, Middlesex in 1841. The following year he began his pastoral work at a Congregational chapel, the Albion Chapel, Albion Street, Hull. In 1843 he travelled through Scotland with a companion, where he found himself debating slavery with two American ladies who were slave owners themselves.

At Hull, Newman Hall engaged actively in social causes, including support for Chartism and temperance reform. To promote the latter cause he wrote The Scriptural Claims of Teetotalism, whilst his thoughts on Chartism and political causes, being influenced by the weekly Christian Socialist written by Charles Kingsley, Frederick Maurice and Thomas Hughes, was brought together in a small pamphlet entitled Divine Socialism, or The Man Christ Jesus. In 1846 Christopher Newman Hall married his first wife, Charlotte, only daughter of Dr William Gordon FLS, both of Hull. During the twelve years of his ministry at Albion Chapel, the membership increased greatly, necessitating a branch chapel. A school was also opened. His popularity led to invitations to preach at many of Yorkshire's Free Churches in Beverley, Selby, Leeds, Huddersfield, Filey, Harrogate, York, and Ripon.

Surrey Chapel
In 1854 Newman Hall succeeded the Rev. James Sherman as pastor of the celebrated Surrey Chapel in London, which was founded in 1783 by the Rev. Rowland Hill and by now had numerous foundations and charities associated with it. Whilst ministering at the chapel, Newman Hall won a scholarship to study law in his spare time; he was awarded an LLB degree in 1856.

Abolition & American Civil War
During the 1860s, dissenting from the British government's position, Newman Hall passionately supported the north in the American Civil War. He disapproved of secession by southern states. England should side with the North, he wrote, particularly because emancipation of the slaves is just. He felt so strongly that he published one of his few non-theological books: ''The American War. A Lecture delivered in London, October 20, 1862''. Newman Hall visited the United States during the Civil War, and published a passionate anti-slavery speech co-authored by Abraham Lincoln and Henry Ward Beecher.

At the Great Union and Emancipation Meeting at Exeter Hall, London, on 29 January 1863 in support of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, the crowning speech of the evening was given by Christopher Newman Hall. The meeting was a huge success, showing support for abolition in the United States of America, and reported by Harper's Weekly to have been one of the largest and most enthusiastic meetings ever held in London; its overspill of people who could not get into the packed meeting itself, was formed into three large, ancillary, open-air meetings. Subsequently, Newman Hall made extensive tours in the United States. At Washington, he was invited to open Congress with prayer, and in the House of Representatives he delivered an address on international relations.

Christ Church, Hawkstone Hall and Lincoln Memorial Tower
After some years at Surrey Chapel it became apparent to Newman Hall and the chapel's trustees that closure was inevitable. A considerable sum had been bequeathed by the chapel's founder for the perpetuation of his work on the expiration of the lease; but, owing to some legal flaw in the will, the bequest had to be given to the residuary legatee, Hackney Itineracy, later known as Hackney College, a non-conformist theological institution co-founded by George Collison. The trustees were faced with the prospect of raising all of the funds needed to buy a new lease on Surrey Chapel, or moving elsewhere. Surrey Chapel on Blackfriars Road was by then a popular religious, educational, and music venue with many associated foundations and charities, but was too small to house all of these. To provide sufficient space, a local temperance hall in Waterloo Road had been leased, and duly renamed Hawkstone Hall - the country seat of relatives of Rev. Rowland Hill. Were a more spacious site found for an entirely new chapel, the trustees might provide on-site facilities for some of the foundations and perhaps acquire a freehold. Costly though this would be, Newman Hall was undaunted by this challenge. Through weekly offertories and donations, and fund-raising in America, he led a campaign to raise sufficient money and loans. A grand building project emerged at the junction of the Kennington and Westminster Bridge Roads on the site of a former Orphan Asylum. It comprised a large new chapel, Christ Church, adjoined by a large lecture hall and school building to which the name Hawkstone Hall was transferred, and an international monument to Abraham Lincoln - the Lincoln Memorial Tower. The whole complex was initially designed by the architect E.C. Robins FRIBA in 1873, and then enlarged and modified by Paull & Bickerdike. Within four years of the new complex being opened by Samuel Morley MP in 1876, the total cost of about £60,000 was cleared.

Later life, memorial and legacy
In the 1860s Newman Hall became Chairman of the Congregational Union, and was awarded a Doctorate in Divinity from Amherst College in the USA. Newman Hall became involved in W E Forster's educational bill and met with Gladstone personally. At a service conducted by Rev Henry Allon at Christ Church, on Easter Monday 1880, Newman Hall married his second wife, Miss Harriet Knipe - daughter of Henry Knipe, barrister-at-law and J.P. His first marriage had ended in a controversial divorce case which had eventually led to a decree nisi in February 1880 - a time when divorce was rare. Neither marriage was followed by children. In 1892 he received a second Doctorate of Divinity degree - from Edinburgh University.

In 1892 Newman Hall resigned as pastor at Christ Church whilst continuing with his interests in social and evangelical work. Non-party, but broadly Liberal in his political views, few preachers of any denomination have exercised so far-reaching an influence. Towards the end of his life he completed an autobiography, in which he set out his philosophy in these words: The Christian Church, as tribunes of the people should be ever ready to plead the people's cause...Christians should be in the forefront of the battle of philanthropy. By this time he had many books to his name, including two books on travel The Land of the Forum and Vatican, and From Liverpool to St. Louis, and a book of poetry entitled Pilgrim Songs in Cloud and Sunshine.

Christopher Newman Hall is buried with his father John Vine Hall (d.1860), and wife Harriet (d.1922), in a polished red coffin tomb at Abney Park Cemetery, the garden cemetery founded in Stoke Newington in 1840 by Congregationalists as a model for non-denominational burial.

According to Hall, his tract Come to Jesus sold more than four million copies during his lifetime. He further claimed that it was read by 100,000 Civil War soldiers, and that it sold 10,000 copies per year in Warsaw.

Works

 * Hall, Christopher Newman (1850/reprinted 2007). The Christian Philosopher... a narrative of the life of the late William Gordon. USA: Kessinger Publishing, 2007
 * Hall, Christopher Newman (1863/reprinted 2007). The American War. by Newman Hall, LLD. A lecture delivered in London October 20, 1862. USA: University of Michigan Library, 2007
 * Hall, Christopher Newman (1865/reprinted 2007). Sermon on the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln preached at Surrey Chapel, London, May 14, 1865'. USA: Cornell University Library, 2007
 * Hall, Christopher Newman (1898). Newman Hall, an autobiography. Cassell: London.
 * Hall, Christopher Newman (1865/reprinted 2007). Sermon on the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln preached at Surrey Chapel, London, May 14, 1865'. USA: Cornell University Library, 2007
 * Hall, Christopher Newman (1898). Newman Hall, an autobiography. Cassell: London.

title: Christopher Newman Hall


text:
List of Hong Kong government agencies

This is a list of government agencies of the Hong Kong Government.

The policies of the government are formulated decided by the bureaux led by secretaries and permanent secretaries are discussed in the Executive Council and implemented by the departments and agencies. Each department or agency reports to one or more policy bureaux, or directly to the Chief Executive, the Chief Secretary for Administration or Financial Secretary.

Following his re-election in 2007, Donald Tsang ordered a reorganisation of the Government Secretariat, increasing the number of policy bureaux to 12.

Chief Executive

 * Chief Executive: John Lee
 * Office of the Chief Executive
 * Independent Commission Against Corruption
 * Audit Commission
 * Policy Innovation and Co-ordination Office
 * Public Service Commission
 * Office of the Ombudsman
 * Secretary for Justice
 * Chief Secretary for Administration
 * Financial Secretary

Secretary for Justice

 * Secretary for Justice: Paul Lam
 * Deputy Secretary for Justice: Horace Cheung
 * Department of Justice

Chief Secretary for Administration
(“Department of Administration” per Article 60 of the Basic Law)

Chief Secretary for Administration’s Office

 * Chief Secretary for Administration: Eric Chan
 * Administration Wing
 * Legal Aid Department

Civil Service Bureau

 * Secretary for the Civil Service: Ingrid Yeung
 * Permanent Secretary for the Civil Service: Clement Leung
 * Joint Secretariat for the Advisory Bodies on Civil Service and Judicial Salaries and Conditions of Service (JSSCS)

Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau

 * Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs: Erick Tsang
 * Under Secretary for Constitutional & Mainland Affairs: Clement Woo
 * Permanent Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs: Roy Tang
 * Registration and Electoral Office
 * Beijing Office
 * Hong Kong Economic and Trade Offices (Mainland China, and Taiwan)

Education Bureau

 * Secretary for Education: Christine Choi
 * Under Secretary for Education: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Education: Michelle Li
 * Working Family and Student Financial Assistance Agency
 * University Grants Committee Secretariat

Environment and Ecology Bureau

 * Secretary for Environment and Ecology: Tse Chin-wan
 * Under Secretary for the Environment: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Environment and Ecology (Environment)/Director of Environmental Protection: Janice Tse
 * Permanent Secretary for Environment and Ecology (Food): Vivian Lau
 * Environmental Protection Department
 * Hong Kong Observatory
 * Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department
 * Food and Environmental Hygiene Department
 * Government Laboratory

Health Bureau

 * Secretary for Food and Health: Lo Chung-mau
 * Under Secretary for Food and Health: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Health: Thomas Chan
 * Department of Health

Home and Youth Affairs Bureau

 * Secretary for Home and Youth Affairs: Alice Mak
 * Under Secretary for Home and Youth Affairs: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Home and Youth Affairs: Shirley Lam
 * Home Affairs Department
 * Information Services Department

Labour and Welfare Bureau

 * Secretary for Labour and Welfare: Chris Sun
 * Under Secretary for Labour and Welfare: Ho Kai-ming
 * Permanent Secretary for Labour and Welfare: Alice Lau
 * Labour Department
 * Social Welfare Department

Security Bureau

 * Secretary for Security: Chris Tang
 * Under Secretary for Security: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Security: Patrick Li
 * Auxiliary Medical Service
 * Civil Aid Service
 * Correctional Services Department
 * Customs and Excise Department
 * Fire Services Department
 * Government Flying Service
 * Hong Kong Police Force
 * Immigration Department
 * Hong Kong Auxiliary Police Force
 * Narcotics Division
 * Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance

Culture, Sports and Tourism Bureau

 * Secretary for Culture, Sports and Tourism: Kevin Yeung
 * Under Secretary for Culture, Sports and Tourism: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Culture, Sports and Tourism: Joe Wong Chi-cho
 * Leisure and Cultural Services Department
 * Tourism Commission
 * Create Hong Kong

Financial Secretary
(“Department of Finance” per Article 60 of the Basic Law)

 * Financial Secretary: Paul Chan
 * Deputy Financial Secretary: Michael Wong
 * Office of the Government Economist
 * Hong Kong Monetary Authority

Commerce and Economic Development Bureau

 * Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development: Algernon Yau
 * Under Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development: Bernard Chan Pak-li
 * Permanent Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development: Eliza Lee Man-ching
 * Intellectual Property Department
 * Invest Hong Kong (InvestHK)
 * Office of the Communications Authority (OFCA)
 * Post Office
 * Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK)
 * Trade and Industry Department
 * Hong Kong Economic and Trade Offices (Overseas) (HKETOs)

Development Bureau

 * Secretary for Development: Bernadette Linn
 * Under Secretary for Development: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Development (Works): Ricky Lau Chun-kit
 * Permanent Secretary for Development (Planning and Lands): (vacant)
 * Architectural Services Department
 * Buildings Department
 * Civil Engineering and Development Department
 * Drainage Services Department
 * Electrical and Mechanical Services Department
 * Land Registry
 * Lands Department
 * Planning Department
 * Water Supplies Department
 * Antiquities and Monuments Office

Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau

 * Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury: Christopher Hui
 * Under Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury: Joseph Chan Ho-lim
 * Permanent Secretary for the Financial Services and the Treasury (Treasury): Cathy Chu
 * Permanent Secretary for the Financial Services and the Treasury (Financial Services): Salina Yan
 * Census and Statistics Department
 * Company Registry
 * Government Logistics Department
 * Government Property Agency
 * Inland Revenue Department
 * Insurance Authority
 * Official Receiver's Office
 * Rating and Valuation Department
 * The Treasury

Innovation, Technology and Industry Bureau

 * Secretary for Innovation, Technology and Industry: Dong Sun
 * Under Secretary for Innovation and Technology: Lillian Cheong
 * Permanent Secretary for the Innovation and Technology: Annie Choi
 * Innovation and Technology Commission
 * Digital Policy Office
 * Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
 * Efficiency Office

Transport and Logistics Bureau

 * Secretary for Transport and Logistics: Lam Sai-hung
 * Under Secretary for Transport and Logistics: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Transport and Logistics: Mable Chan
 * Civil Aviation Department
 * Highways Department
 * Marine Department
 * Transport Department

Housing Bureau

 * Secretary for Housing: Winnie Ho
 * Under Secretary for Housing: (vacant)
 * Permanent Secretary for Housing/Director of Housing: Agnes Wong
 * Housing Department

Related bodies and organisations

 * Airport Authority Hong Kong
 * Chinese Medicine Council of Hong Kong
 * Commission On Youth
 * Committee on the Promotion of Civic Education
 * Competition Policy Advisory Group
 * Construction Industry Council
 * Construction Industry Training Authority
 * Consumer Council
 * Council for the AIDS Trust Fund
 * Education Commission
 * Elderly Commission
 * Electoral Affairs Commission
 * Electronic Investor Resources Centre
 * Employees Retraining Board
 * Equal Opportunities Commission
 * Estate Agents Authority
 * Hong Kong Arts Centre
 * Hong Kong Arts Development Council
 * Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation
 * Hong Kong Council on Smoking and Health
 * Hong Kong Examinations and Assessment Authority
 * Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited (HKEx)
 * Hong Kong Export Credit Insurance Corporation
 * Hong Kong Housing Society
 * Hong Kong International Arbitration Centre
 * Hong Kong Logistics Development Council
 * Hong Kong Maritime and Port Board
 * Hong Kong Mortgage Corporation Limited
 * Hong Kong Productivity Council
 * Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation
 * Hong Kong Sports Institute Limited
 * Hong Kong Tourism Board
 * Hong Kong Trade Development Council
 * Hospital Authority
 * Independent Police Complaints Council
 * Kowloon-Canton Railway Corporation
 * Law Reform Commission of Hong Kong
 * Legal Aid Services Council
 * Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Authority
 * MTR Corporation Limited
 * Occupational Safety and Health Council
 * Office of the Communications Authority
 * Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data, Hong Kong
 * Official Solicitor's Office
 * Provisional Construction Industry Co-ordination Board
 * Quality Education Fund
 * Public Works Department
 * Review Body on Bid Challenges
 * Secretariat, Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance
 * Securities and Futures Appeals Tribunal
 * Securities and Futures Commission
 * Security and Guarding Services Industry Authority
 * Standing Commission on Civil Service Salaries and Conditions of Service
 * Standing Committee on Directorate Salaries and Conditions of Service
 * Standing Committee on Disciplined Services Salaries and Conditions of Service
 * Standing Committee on Judicial Salaries and Conditions of Service
 * Tourism Commission
 * Town Planning Appeal Board
 * Town Planning Board
 * Transport Complaints Unit
 * Urban Renewal Authority
 * Vocational Training Council
 * Women's Commission

title: List of Hong Kong government agencies


text:
User talk:Stefantastic

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- Infrogmation 18:23, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Stefantastic


text:
Lech Janerka

Lech Andrzej Janerka (born 2 May 1953 in Wrocław, Poland ) is a Polish songwriter, vocalist, and bassist. In the 1980s he was leader of a notable Polish post-punk/new wave band called Klaus Mitffoch, based in Wrocław.

title: Lech Janerka


text:
User:PedanticallySpeaking/In Progress4

I rolled back changes today because they deleted a lot of material. Critical quotes gave this piece life, unlike many Hollywood biographies here which are pro forma lists of IMDB credits. I'll certainly admit I could phrase a couple things better, but why remove all this stuff? PedanticallySpeaking 16:20, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Your revert was entirely unjustified but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just misguided about this article's quality. Here are but some of the reasons for the changes I made:

 * The critic review quotations are super POV violations and unnecessary in a biography (wikipedia isn't rottentomatoes.com), especially the fact they were all in the very first paragraph.
 * Too many wiki links (poor readibility)
 * Too many red wiki links (poor readibility)
 * The article's tone is more like a six degrees of separation game than a succinct biography
 * Related: no need to list every person involved with every play and every movie she's ever been in, for example "David Mamet" as the person behind "Oleanna" is not only non note worthy on multiple levels, overall such referencing detracts from article quality.
 * "Acclaim" for film Wicked at sundance is perhaps not only an overstated POV violation, but also uncited. Do we mention plot details for each non noteworthy movie an actor or actress has starred in?
 * Which is better POV wise "The role that made her a star was" Vs "Her first major role was"?
 * And "Her first major role was" Vs "Her next film was" (original version inconsistent)
 * Dates not in the first paragraph or directly related to an article should not be wiki linked in my opinion.

 * zen master   T  16:49, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Let me just correct that last one - all dates should be wikilinked. violet/riga (t) 16:55, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I disagree, extra wiki links that no one is likely to click on detract from article quality and also slow wikipedia down. For a celebrity's birthday it is conveivable that someone would want to find out other stuff that happened that day etc, but for random information it detracts from article quality.  How hard is it for someone to type "April 4" into the search box?  What do you think of my other concerns listed above violetriga?  wikilinking should only be applied to "for further information" sort of links, the majority of dates in articles do not fit this criteria. zen master    T  17:01, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * All dates should be linked so that they show up as per the preference of the users - for me (and many others) it's horrible to see the day after the month. Linking the dates allows the wiki software to switch it to the style the user has chosen.  It's noted at Manual of Style (dates and numbers).  As for the other points, yes I do agree that there is a lot of POV text, unrequired namechecks and red links. violet/riga (t) 17:09, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, should I revert Pedantically's revert then? How should I go about perhaps changing wikipedia policy regarding dates?  I consider it common sense to keep wiki linking down to just the core essence of an article.  The more things that are wikilinked the more it leads to chaos in my opinion. zen master    T  17:35, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * The quotes from critics are in line with the policy at NPOV, which says that if opinions are attributed they are usable. As for the dates, it was my understanding that all dates should be in wiki form so users settings will display them in the form they desire, as Violetriga states.  I do cite co-stars, directors, writers of films because that tells me something.  The one you noted, that the play was by David Mamet, tells me something about the work and if she's doing his stuff she must be well regarded.   The sentence about "made her a star" is there because it was not her first lead and it was indeed the first role that was widely seen.  Now, I will go consult my commonplace books for some cites for this material, including the Sundance reference.  PedanticallySpeaking 17:48, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * You are ignoring the criticism of massive POV in the article? I do not believe the paragraph the quotations is contained in is inline with wikipedia policy, the POV is outside the quoted text. For example "Hailed" etc etc.  violetriga seems to disagree with you above?  I consider the clean up changes I made to be obvious.  Are you a fan of Julia Stiles or something? zen master    T  17:53, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Second generation criticism
"despite her youth" is POV. She is 24. If you are trying to say she won a lot of awards at a young age why not just say it like this? Though "a lot" is a tad relative/POV. I contend that the changes I made are a better starting point for further clean ups than what your initial "inuse" clean ups seem to be producing. You still have not adequately justified your revert of my changes? The obviousness of my changes subsequently being reverted is frustrating (though I admit my stance on date wiki linking is perhaps not mainstream). All those wiki link references can't be notable can they? I think you are a Julia Stiles fan now :-) me too but NPOV is important. zen master    T  18:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm about to get kicked off this computer at the library so I'm afraid I'll have to reply another day. PedanticallySpeaking 18:15, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, however, since you did not previously justify your revert of my changes, and in some ways your changes have made the article worse (continues the POV more subtley), I am going to go ahead and edit the article again, though this time I will try not to delete as much information. If you have any problems with my changes the talk page is always open (first). zen master    T  18:22, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I asked and was given some more time. First, what POV?  I've looked through it several times and I don't see what you mean.  Second, I am looking for our policy re links but haven't found it.  Further, I don't understand the objection to linking other articles and the number of red links is small.  Third, "despite her youth" is because I don't know of many other young actresses who have garnered the praise she has.  Fourth, by the by and fyi the table of films I had no hand in creating.  Fifth, I don't understand the objection to mentioning plot details.  There are so many movies out there, often with un-memorable titles (e.g. Down to You), that a few words of plot is helpful.  Many of the James Bond movie titles are soundalikes to me and I need a bit of explanation, say "'You Only Live Twice' has Donald Pleasance snatching spacecraft from his volcano lair".  Now if we were writing for Katz's "Film Encyclopedia" for economy's sake we wouldn't do this, but since there aren't space constraints, what's the harm?  Her later films I glossed over, I'll admit, because I got to working on other things and while intending to come back to it, I forgot to return, to be honest.  PedanticallySpeaking 18:35, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Two notes, you deleted her parents' names. It's standard biographical practice to include this, e.g. it's one of the first things in every entry in the American National Biography.  Second, the place of birth should not go in the lead per the stylebook.  See Manual_of_Style_%28biographies%29.  PedanticallySpeaking 18:40, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * See Make_only_links_relevant_to_the_context for guidelines about what to link to. Perhaps a couple of her movies without articles, e.g. I Love You, could go, but for the most part I don't understand your objection.  PedanticallySpeaking 19:05, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * I did errantly delete her parents names in my original edit, that was a mistake, sorry. By lead you mean the first sentence or first paragraph? Her birthplace currently resides in the second sentence.  There are numerous other celebrity bio or other articles on wikipedia that violate the manual of style rule(s) you cite yet those articles are actually much more pleasant to read (because they don't contain as many unnecessary wiki links, red or otherwise).  A rule should never force someone to violate common sense.  See the Natalie Portman article for an example of a high but sane number of wikilinks and a much more pleasant reading experience, though that article admittedly contains less information (which is part of the problem here).   Check the most recent changes I made to the article for POV issues, words like "acclaim" instead of "buzz" etc. zen master    T  19:10, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

why so many references?
Pedantically, this is a biographical article, there shouldn't be much need to cite things? If you include that many positive citations then we should probably include some negative ones as well, right? Why do you include the date for each citation, is that really necessary? What you are doing is completely non-standard when compared with other celebrity bio-graphical articles, in my opinion it adds woefully unnecessary verbosity to the article.

Anyway, what did you think of the changes I made yesterday? zen master   T  15:15, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey Pedantically, I removed your References section because they weren't actually references to any sort of opinion style arguments, they were merely just quotations and reviews, I can help you put some of that stuff into wikiquote if you want me to help? Some can be moved to the Awards and reviews section, albeit less verbosely (no need to add that many wikilinks).  Also, you weren't actually citing sources for those statements, you were wikilinking to other (many non-existant) articles within wikipedia.  References should cite to specific sources, generally that are arguing for some sort of position -- critical reviews and quotations are something all together different.  Please let me know what you think about my change.  zen master    T  17:17, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In your edit summary you said I "wandered off". The Wikipedia crashed this morning in the midst of my responding to your earlier criticism and never came back up. I was going to do some rewriting but the server troubles prevented that. As for your changes, I do not approve because they fracture the chronological order of the article. And "buzz" is not a better word than "acclaim". PedanticallySpeaking 19:27, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't win with you. Yesterday you complained I didn't cite things and then when I go and draw up a bibliography you complain about too many cites and then delete the entire thing.  A precise citation, including dates of articles, is called for in Cite your sources, which gives examples in APA style (I used MLA style, however).  I don't understand why you deleted all my cites.  So what if other biographies don't have bibliographies?  When I submitted another biography to WP:FAC I was criticized then for not having references.

 * Pedant, you weren't actually citing to actual quotations or to the actual sources of what someone said, for example, your references to a quote or review allegedly from a magazine only contained just a wiki link to that magazine's article on wikipedia, which doesn't count as a reference. A reference section is different than what you put together, you should link to the article quotation or review, the Awards and reviews section also has this problem, we should fix that but it's small enough to where it isn't a big deal, is it?  If you want me to I can look for good examples of reference sections on wikipedia?  What do you think of putting some Julia Stiles quotations in wikiquote?  Also, on a higer level, celebrity articles don't generally need a reference section, there is nothing under dispute in the article is there, so no need to cite anything, unless you are saying there is something under dispute?  If so, what is it?  If I said you weren't citing anything then I take that back, there is no need to cite much of anything in a non controversial biographical article.  Do you agree that we have improved this article's quality over the last few days? zen master    T  19:39, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

A Reply to User:Zen-master
Zen-master, I am trying to comprehend the basis for your claims but do still not understand. I have cited the Wikipedia guideline pages that address the points you raise. Have you looked at them?
 * You write that a bibliography is not needed because the material is not disputed. The instructions on Cite your sources read:   "you should actively search for authoritative references to cite . . . . This applies even when the information is currently undisputed — even if there's no dispute right now, someone might come along in five years and want to dispute, verify, or learn more about a topic."
 * You write that "celebrity articles don't generally need a reference section" but I have read through Cite your sources and Manual of Style (biographies) and see nothing about who is or is not worthy of a bibliography. The criteria at What is a featured article (the idea being that all articles aspire to "featured" status) say to give references and some of my nominees at WP:FAC were shot down for lacking references.
 * You write that citing print publications' articles are is not proper references because there is not a URL link to the article. Again, on Cite your sources, there are numerous citations to printed materials.
 * You object to quotations in an article as violating the NPOV guidelines notwithstanding the instruction at NPOV, which states: "Wikipedia is devoted to stating facts and only facts. Where we might want to state opinions, we convert that opinion into a fact by attributing the opinion to someone. So, rather than asserting, 'The Beatles was the greatest band', we can say, 'Most Americans believe that the Beatles was the greatest band,' which is a fact verifiable by survey results, or 'The Beatles had many songs that made the Billboard Hot 100,' which is also fact. In the first instance we assert an opinion; in the second and third instances we 'convert' that opinion into fact by attributing it to someone. It's important to note this formulation is substantially different from the 'some people believe ...' formulation popular in political debates. The reference requires an identifiable and subjectively quantifiable population or, better still, a name."  I had your comments in mind in reading Arthur Miller's obituary in the New York Times on February 12, 2005.  I counted twelve quotations from the deceased (plus several lines from his plays) an quotations from seven others, four of them critics.  Critical opinions do have a place in biographies.   (If you want to create a page for her on Wikiquote, I do not object.)
 * As I explained, troubles with Wikipedia's computers interrupted my work. I had typed up the bibliography and was going to revamp the article when the server crashed.  The bibliography included not merely entries of reviews but reference books and profiles of the actress.  Each entry had a remark noting what was in the cited work that I used.
 * I do not agree that your changes have improved the article. You have scrambled the chronology, created an unnecessary list (lists being another bugaboo to WP:FAC candidacies), and drained any life out of the article.

PedanticallySpeaking 18:50, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

(more TK)

title: User:PedanticallySpeaking/In Progress4


text:
Talk:The Gates

A note
I have a lot more picture of The Gates, if anyone wants them (similar to those in the article, but much higher resolution). Morris 18:26, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Please add/replace some photos. The photos that are currently up are sub-par.MpegMan 00:50, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

high resolution pictures
I created a separate article (referenced from this one) with five very high resolution images of the Gates. Morris 23:47, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC) (They're in a separate article, because they take so long to load). [Now merged here.]

 * The previous ones weren't sub-par - about web-average, I would say. But the new ones are very good. I like the differences depending on lighting direction. I am imressed that they have managed to get 23 miles of it when Central Park is only three miles long. -- RHaworth 03:58, 2005 Feb 26 (UTC)

The Gates were planted along the existing pathways through CP, which have no relation to its 'as the crow flies' length'. But, I think you know this. Aragonzo (talk) 23:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

English version
This pale English version shows pastel penises on the pillars of the portico of the Tate Britain [Gallery of no longer modern art] in London for In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida an exhibition installation by Angus Fairhurst, Damien Hirst, and Sarah Lucas in 2003. -- RHaworth 04:08, 2005 Feb 26 (UTC)

Photos
If anyone has photographs of the Gates taken at night, they should add them. At least one. I wasn't that impressed by the gates until I happened across them at night once, and then I told everybody (those who had and had not already seen them) that night-viewing was the only way worth seeing them. JesseRafe 03:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

More Photos
I took a photo of the Gates (taken during the day) which I love, but seems just a little too much like the ones already in the article. So I'll post it here. — Anna Kucsma 20:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I uploaded another picture today (like anyone really cares). Personally, I prefer the one at left, but I thought I'd put this one here too, anyway. — Anna Kucsma 17:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The article on Central Park was lacking information on The Gates. I added a section, and included Photo At Left. — AnnaKucsma   (Talk to me!) 16:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Deletion request on Commons
The deletion of Image:The Gates - Around Bend.jpg was asked some time ago on Commons for copyright reasons. If this picture is deleted, the whole Commons:Category:The Gates is threatened as well. This debate has not attracted many comments on Commons. As a Commons sysop, I'm in favour of the deletion, but I'd like to get more input. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 21:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

An emotional comment
I and my then wife visited The Gates twice, during a time when our relationship was certainly not doing well. We were both very familiar with Central Park, but The Gates did something magical to the Park. Well, at least two things. First, all the many pathways through the Park became well-defined. Secondly, there were SO many people there, all anxious to meet you and talk. People from all over.

I will never forget those visits.

I have many photos, but all are well represented in this article already.

What I want to emphasize is the personal emotional impact an undertaking of this size has. It is not like going to a museum and seeing a canvas you have read about and always wanted to see. Understand the difference if you can. If there is a difference.

Aragonzo (talk) 23:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)'

QUESTION: (Guess I'll ask this here)  After they had been removed from Central Park, weren't some of the gates taken and displayed at other parks around the country? I seem to recall several dozen or so being set up briefly at Piedmont Park in Atlanta.

title: Talk:The Gates


text:
User:EDdustries

He is a great man ! He has helped many abroad and far ! ! ! He is the Great Edfiki !

title: User:EDdustries


text:
Edward Harrigan

Edward Harrigan (October 26, 1844 – June 6, 1911) was an Irish-American actor, singer, dancer, playwright, lyricist and theater producer who, together with Tony Hart (as Harrigan & Hart), formed one of the most celebrated theatrical partnerships of the 19th century. His career began in minstrelsy and variety but progressed to the production of multi-act plays full of singing, dancing and physical comedy, making Harrigan one of the founding fathers of modern American musical theatre.

Early years
Harrigan was born at Corlear's Hook in Lower Manhattan, New York City. He was one of 13 children, only four of whom lived past infancy. Their father was a Protestant from Newfoundland, and their mother was described as "a Protestant Yankee".

After Harrigan's parents divorced when he was 18, he worked at caulking ships, and his work eventually took him to San Francisco. As a pastime, he wrote new lyrics to existing melodies, and the result found popularity with his fellow workers.

Harrigan and Hart partnership
Harrigan made his first stage appearance in 1867 at the Olympic, a San Francisco "melodeon", as that city's variety theaters were then known. A brief partnership with comic Sam Rickey was followed by a fourteen-year stage career with Tony Hart, whom he met in Chicago in 1870. Although Harrigan wrote the lyrics and stage patter, the diminutive Hart's charm and singing talent played a large role in the duo's success.

Harrigan and Hart went in 1871 to Boston, where they had their first big success at John Stetson's Howard Athenaeum. They then moved on to New York, where they first worked with Tony Pastor before beginning a long run at Josh Hart's Theatre Comique. By the mid-1870s they began moving from the variety show toward musical theatre. Harrigan's sketches on the Comique's crowded bill featured comic Irish, German and black characters drawn from everyday life on the streets of New York. Their breakthrough hit was the 1873 song and sketch "The Mulligan Guard", a lampoon of an Irish neighborhood "militia" with music by David Braham, who would become Harrigan's musical director and father in law. It became their signature piece, and they featured it in many of their slapstick skits and plays. In 1876, Harrigan took over the Comique himself, along with Hart and manager Martin Hanley.

By 1878, with The Mulligan Guard Picnic, Harrigan & Hart settled down on Broadway and performed in seventeen of their shows over the next seven years. Though still broad and farcical, these shows featured music that was integrated with a more literary story line, together with the dialogue and dance, and the shows began to resemble modern musical comedy. Harrigan wrote the stories and lyrics, and Braham wrote the music.

Although the plays gradually became longer as more songs, dances, and stage business was added, the tickets remained the same price. Harrigan and Hart's comedy was about everyday people, and so it was fitting that working folk were able to afford to fill up the seats. These shows were very popular, especially with New York's immigrant-based lower and middle classes, who were delighted to see themselves comically (but sympathetically) depicted on stage. The action of the plays took place in downtown Manhattan and concerned real-life problems, such as interracial tensions, political corruption, and gang violence, all mixed with broad, street-smart comedy, puns and ethnic dialects. Harrigan played the politically ambitious Irish saloon owner "Dan Mulligan", and Hart played the African-American washerwoman "Rebecca Allup".

One of Harrigan's most popular plays with the Mulligan Guard Series, the Mulligan Guard's Ball (1880), shows off the smooth juxtaposition of the comedy, musicality, and a healthy dose of humanity that made Harrigan's plays so distinctive. Full of laughable chaos and "Harrigan hilarity", the Irish militia and Black militia within the act butt heads in a satirical whirlwind of dance, stage violence, and buffoonery. The New York Herald compared the Mulligan series to the Pickwick Papers by Charles Dickens, and one devotee wrote: "America has produced nothing more national, more distinctly its own, than these plays of the Irish in New York". People spoke of Ned Harrigan as the American Molière.

Although the Theatre Comique was eventually shut down for financial reasons, Harrigan announced in 1881 that they would build a fresh and elegant "New Theatre Comique" several blocks further north on Broadway. The building they renovated was originally the home of the Church of the Messiah but had hosted many other theatres throughout the years. However, this theatre was not to last; it burned to the ground in 1884.

Marriage and decline
After the theatre collapsed, so did the partnership. Harrigan had married Annie Braham, David's daughter, on November 18, 1876. Their family continued in his footsteps, as son William Harrigan, daughter Nedda Harrigan, and granddaughter Ann Connolly all became Broadway performers. However, Harrigan's habit of hiring relatives soured his partnership with Hart. In May 1885, five months after the fire, Harrigan and Hart appeared on Broadway together for the last time. Hart's health deteriorated, and he died at age 36 in 1891, while Harrigan opened up his Harrigan's Theatre in 1890 on Herald Square. Twenty-three of his plays achieved runs of more than 100 performances each on Broadway. Harrigan continued writing plays and performing until his last public appearance on March 16, 1910.

Harrigan died in 1911.

Harrigan 'n Hart
In 1985, a musical celebrating the partnership, Harrigan 'N Hart, opened on Broadway. The show has a book by Michael Stewart, lyrics by Peter Walker, and music by Max Showalter is based on the book The Merry Partners by Ely Jacques Kahn, Jr. and material found by Nedda Harrigan Logan. Harry Groener portrayed Harrigan, Mark Hamill (of Star Wars fame) played Hart, and Joe Layton directed. Frank Rich of The New York Times found the show dull and "aimless", and it closed after 25 previews and four regular performances.

Works

 * 1877: Old Lavender
 * 1878: The Mulligan Guard Picnic
 * 1879: The Mulligan Guards' Ball
 * 1880: The Mulligan Guards' Surprise which included the hit song "Whist! The Bogie Man" words by Harrigan and music by David Braham.
 * 1881: The Major
 * 1882: Squatter Sovereignty
 * 1883: The Mulligans' Silver Wedding
 * 1883: Cordelia's Aspirations
 * 1886: The Leather Patch
 * 1888: Waddy Googan
 * 1890: Reilly and the Four Hundred

title: Edward Harrigan


text:
Volusenus

Volusenus is a name that may refer to:

 * Gaius Volusenus (fl. mid-1st century BCE), distinguished military officer of the Roman Republic who served under Julius Caesar for ten years, during the Gallic Wars and the civil war of the 40s
 * Florentius Volusenus (c. 1504 – 1546 or 1547), Scottish humanist

title: Volusenus


text:
Talk:Playland (New York)

Ownership
Sounds like it's owned by the US (Federal) Govt. which is untrue.

 * The article now states that it is owned by the county. --Amit 14:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the first line in the article about it being the *only* government-owned amusement park in the country, see [] Seems more like it's the only park that the person who wrote the article new of, since Bay Beach has been operated by decades by the city of Green Bay. Someone who is experienced should edit this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.33.177.207 (talk) 07:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

History
Has the park always been County-owned and operated, or did they buy someone out? --Feitclub 20:49, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

 * As per the statement in the article, local residents concerned about what a County report described as "unsavory crowds" induced the Westchester County Park Association to purchase two existing theme parks, Rye Beach and Paradise Park, and planned a local-government-sponsored amusement park in their stead. --Amit 17:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Infamous deaths
Someone should probably work in the story from last year where a young visitor was thrown from the "Brain Scrambler" ride and was killed. I've heard that wasn't the first time somebody died at Playland, but that could just be a legend associated with the perceived "ricketedyness" of the Dragon Coaster.

 * This has been incorporated into the article some time ago. --Amit 02:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This section needs more sourcing. Parts of it are also wrong. The "teenage boy" who choked on his gum was an 8yr old girl. Also I doubt only two deaths happened btwn 1920 and 1990.--Nick 05:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

According to accident reports from the park published in the local paper only two deaths from 1920-1990. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.151.2.10 (talk) 19:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Links
Someone needs to move all obsolete links to the "Rye Playland" and "Playland" articles to point to this article's page instead. --Amit 14:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have now done this. --Amit 18:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

"Die Playland"
This is a message for 130.156.29.112: you must provide a reputable, unbiased, 3rd-party source that talks about the critics refering to Playland with that nickname. Otherwise, the inclusion of the nickname in WP is merely your opinion (violating WP:NPOV) or original research (WP:OR) and will be reverted. Thanks. SpikeJones 22:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:PlaylandLogo.PNG
Image:PlaylandLogo.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Derby Racer
The discussion of the Derby Racer seems to be inaccurate. It states that the horses move backward and forward as well as up and down. Unfortunately, I visited the park a couple weeks ago and can report that they have been fixed in place (which was also the sad fate of the Blackpool derby racer). Since the slots that they would have moved in have been boarded up, this appears to be a permanent state of affairs. I believe we should edit the article to remove the reference to the backward and forward movement. Bunnyhugger (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Name of the article
I never hear simply the word Playland when people in my area refer to the amusement park. I always hear the term Rye Playland. As a resident of Westchester County, I think that the common name of the play is Rye Playland, and as such, the article should be renamed to Rye Playland.PointsofNoReturn (talk) 18:06, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 29 August 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move after nearly 3 weeks and a relisting. Cúchullain t/ c 18:56, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Playland (New York) → Rye Playland – Title should be qualified using the city rather than the state, for consistency with Playland (Vancouver) and Playland (San Francisco), and to avoid confusion with New York City. Playland (Rye, New York) is a possible title but Rye Playland seems to be in common use, is more WP:NATURAL and already redirects here. Certes (talk) 00:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943  (talk) 12:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The sign at the entrance of the park says "Playland Amusement Park", and it's always advertised as simply "Playland". I think "Rye Playland" is more of colloquialism. - Jasonbres (talk) 01:36, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Support, per nom. It's a WP:NATURAL disambiguation that sees some use in reliable sources. – Train2104 (t • c) 03:38, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I see little evidence that "Rye Playland" is even approaching a usual or common name for this. All sources I can see just say "Playland". NATURALDIS is good for borderline cases, but this isn't a borderline case. The current title also keeps it consensitent with Playland (Vancouver) and Playland (San Francisco). — Amakuru (talk) 11:53, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The other Playlands are disambiguated by city rather than state, so for consistency we'd need to move this article to Playland (Rye) or Playland (Rye, New York). That would also remove any implication that it's in New York City, which is why I started this discussion. Certes (talk) 12:02, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Oppose - it is more of a local reference.--FordDFH (talk) 17:34, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:Playland (New York)


text:
Ali Baba Goes to Town

Ali Baba Goes to Town is a 1937 American musical comedy film directed by David Butler and starring Eddie Cantor, Tony Martin, and Roland Young. Cantor plays a hobo named Aloysius "Al" Babson, who walks into the camp of a movie company that is making the Arabian Nights. He falls asleep and dreams he is in Baghdad as an advisor to the Sultan (Young). He organizes work programs, taxes the rich, and abolishes the army, in a spoof of Roosevelt's New Deal. This film was the second of three in which Shirley Temple and Cesar Romero appeared together, second was Wee Willie Winkie (1937) and The Little Princess (1939).

The cast also includes Gypsy Rose Lee, using the stage name of Louise Hovick, as the Sultana. The Raymond Scott Quintette also appears, performing "Twilight In Turkey."

Cast
Uncredited Guests At Premiere:
 * Eddie Cantor as Ali Baba/Aloysius 'Al' Babson
 * Tony Martin as Yusuf/Announcer at Premiere
 * Roland Young as Sultan
 * June Lang as Princess Miriam
 * Gypsy Rose Lee as Sultana
 * Raymond Scott as Orchestra Leader
 * John Carradine as Ishak/Broderick
 * Virginia Field as Dinah
 * Alan Dinehart as Boland
 * Douglass Dumbrille as Prince Musah
 * Maurice Cass as Omar, The Rug Maker
 * Warren Hymer as Tramp
 * Stanley Fields as Tramp
 * Paul Hurst as Captain
 * Sam Hayes as Radio Announcer/Assistant Director
 * Sidney Fields as Assistant Director
 * Ferdinand Gottschalk as Chief Councilor
 * Charles Lane as Doctor
 * Jeni Le Gon as Specialty Dancer
 * The Peters Sisters as Specialty Act
 * The Pearl Twins as Specialty Dancers
 * Phyllis Brooks as Herself
 * Dolores del Río as Herself
 * Douglas Fairbanks as Himself
 * Jack Haley as Himself
 * Sonja Henie as Herself
 * Victor McLaglen as Himself
 * Tyrone Power as Himself
 * The Ritz Brothers as Themselves
 * Cesar Romero as Himself
 * Ann Sothern as Herself
 * Shirley Temple as Herself

Production
Two men were killed and two injured on August 27, 1937, when the flying carpet rig collapsed in the studio. The "carpet" was a 1500 lb platform suspended high above the floor by piano wires attached to the four corners. The platform fell while it was being tested; none of the actors were on set. Three workmen had been riding on the carpet, with one, camera grip Harry Harsha, dying from his injuries the next day, and 48-year-old actor and prop man Philo Goodfriend was crushed to death underneath. Goodfriend had also been the commodore of Santa Monica Yacht Club.

Cultural references
A clip from Ali Baba Goes to Town is shown in the film The Day of the Locust (1975), in which Karen Black plays an aspiring actress in 1930s Hollywood. A brief shot of Black is edited into the Ali Baba footage to create the impression that her character played a bit role in that film.

Some scenes from Ali Baba Goes to Town are described in detail in Swing Time by Zadie Smith. The character Tracey resembles the dancer Jeni LeGon, who performs in the film.

title: Ali Baba Goes to Town


text:
Baratol

Baratol is an explosive made of a mixture of TNT and barium nitrate, with a small quantity (about 1%) of paraffin wax used as a phlegmatizing agent. TNT typically makes up 25% to 33% of the mixture. Because of the high density of barium nitrate, Baratol has a density of at least 2.5 g/cm3.

Baratol, which has a detonation velocity of only about 4,900 metres per second, was used as the slow-detonating explosive in the explosive lenses of some early atomic bomb designs, with Composition B often used as the fast-detonating component. Atomic bombs detonated at Trinity in 1945, the Soviet Joe 1 in 1949, and in India in 1972 all used Baratol and Composition B.

Baratol was also used in the Mills bomb, a British hand grenade.

title: Baratol


text: Talk:Detroit Lions

title: Talk:Detroit Lions


text: User talk:4.250.183.229

title: User talk:4.250.183.229


text:
Double fault

On the x86 architecture, a double fault exception occurs if the processor encounters a problem while trying to service a pending interrupt or exception. An example situation when a double fault would occur is when an interrupt is triggered but the segment in which the interrupt handler resides is invalid. If the processor encounters a problem when calling the double fault handler, a triple fault is generated and the processor shuts down.

As double faults can only happen due to kernel bugs, they are rarely caused by user space programs in a modern protected mode operating system, unless the program somehow gains kernel access (some viruses and also some low-level DOS programs). Other processors like PowerPC or SPARC generally save state to predefined and reserved machine registers. A double fault will then be a situation where another exception happens while the processor is still using the contents of these registers to process the exception. SPARC processors have four levels of such registers, i.e. they have a 4-window register system.

title: Double fault


text:
Talk:WaRP Graphics

Merge
Removed from article:
 * This article should be merged with Starblaze Graphics.

No it shouldn't. Starblaze reprinted some WaRP comics but the two have no other connection whatsoever. Lee M 18:37, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

WaRP/DC relationship
There was some confusion over whether WaRP has been purchased by DC. From these two sources, &, I've concluded that the their relationship is pretty much just a licencing agreement. ike9898 07:44, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:WaRP Graphics


text:
Talk:Juan Manuel de Rosas

Some sections in this article should be rewritten under a neutral point of view
For example, the Second Governorship title feats sections like "totalitarian regime" or "state terrorism" which show an anti-Rosist bias. Their main source is a short book written by a British militaryman and Ph.D. of the University of London, prior to the Malvinas War. Novishock (talk) 21:15, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

 * The article should avoid unnecessary emotive language, but Wikipedia neutrality does not require the article to avoid stating that he was a dictator if he was a dictator. Why would the British author be expected to be biased BEFORE the war? AnonMoos (talk) 02:30, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

 * I agree, "farce", "docile", "blatant" are emotive and unnecessary, especially when they are not presented as views of sources, but as if they are objective (though I harbour doubts that they should be included in the intro at all, given they are obviously opinion). Rewriting and more sources needed overall. AllenY99 (talk) 23:47, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

 * "an enduring public perception among Argentines as a brutal tyrant" is but elaborate weasel wording. Describing "Revisionism" (which lacks any form of encyclopedic definition in this article, in any case) as anti-semitic, authoritarian and racist lacks reliable sourcing - so does the claim that the mazorca "killed thousands of citizens". The relation between the repatriation of Rosas' remains and dirty war apologia is outright bizarre and unfounded. Mollejasaurio (talk) 23:59, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I find the whole article a farce. There is no citation and lots of biased opinion. Bass-Kuroi (talk) 23:44, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

This article is way too biased
The entire article is useless for historian purposes, as it has no quotes and it’s clearly condemning Rosas without explaining why he is a controversial figure. 190.245.114.34 (talk) 05:07, 7 April 2023 (UTC)ndre

 * Yes, it is disgraceful; they do exactly the same with Hitler and Mussolini; instead of being neutral and showing them as Christian gentlemen, they pretend they are scoundrels. If I were you I would found an institute to revise history.  You could call it the Instituto Juan Manuel de Rosas.Ttocserp 08:47, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Allegations of bias were addressed during the Featured Article evaluation, and then extensively during subsequent actions taken due to edit-warring by editors promoting a hagiographic view of Rosas, and in previous discussions here. As detailed in those incidents, the language used in the article is based firmly in the consensus of reputable historians, as detailed in the citations, notes, and subhead links. • Astynax talk 17:59, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Did they do irony? Ttocserp 21:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Juan Manuel de Rosas


text:
Science Commons

Science Commons (SC) was a Creative Commons project for designing strategies and tools for faster, more efficient web-enabled scientific research. The organization's goals were to identify unnecessary barriers to research, craft policy guidelines and legal agreements to lower those barriers, and develop technology to make research data and materials easier to find and use. Its overarching goal was to speed the translation of data into discovery and thereby the value of research.

Science Commons was located at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory in the Ray and Maria Stata Center at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

History

Creative Commons launched the Science Commons project in early 2005. The project sought to achieve for science what Creative Commons had achieved for the world of culture, art and educational material: to ease unnecessary legal and technical barriers to sharing, to promote innovation, and to provide easy, high quality tools that let individuals and organizations specify the terms under which they wished to share their material.

In 2009, Creative Commons terminated the Science Commons project.

Biological Materials Transfer Project
The Biological Materials Transfer Project, a Material transfer agreement (MTA), developed and deployed standard, modular contracts to lower the costs of transferring biological materials such as DNA, cell lines, model animals and more. The MTA project covered transfer between non-profit institutions, as well as offering transaction solutions to transfers between non-profit entities and for-profit institutions. It integrated existing standard agreements and new Science Commons contracts into a Web-deployed suite, with the goal of developing a transaction system along the lines of Amazon or eBay by using the licensing as a discovery mechanism for materials.

This metadata driven approach is based on the success of the Creative Commons licensing integration into search engines, further allowing for and facilitating the integration of materials licensing into the research literature itself and databases. The hope being that scientists would eventually be only one click away from accessing and/or ordering the materials referenced in the scholarly literature as they perform their research. Unfortunately, the MTA project's tools were not adopted by more than a very small percentage of the scientific community while Science Commons was active and, for all practical purposes, died out when the Science Commons project folded.

Neurocommons
Science Commons’ Neurocommons project set out to create an Open Source knowledge management platform for biological research. The platform combined open access materials (making up the knowledgebase) and open source software (in the form of an analytic platform). The software was still under development when the project ended.

Scholar's Copyright Project
The Scholar’s Copyright was developed with Scholarly Publishing and Academic Resources Coalition designed to lower the barriers to Open Access (OA) by reducing transaction costs and eliminating contract proliferation by offering tools and resources catering to both methods of achieving Open Access. The Scholar's Copyright Addendum is still in use by SPARC

Open Access Data Protocol
The Science Commons Open Access Data Protocol was a method for ensuring that scientific databases can be legally integrated with one another. The protocol was not a license or legal tool, but instead a methodology and best practices document for creating such legal tools in the future, and marking data in the public domain for machine-assisted discovery.

title: Science Commons


text: User talk:208.59.162.166

title: User talk:208.59.162.166