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Talk:Pinochle

Scoring
Aren't runs worth 15, a pinochle 4, four aces worth 10, and so on?

As mentioned in the article, the scores are often divided by ten because the last zero is redundant.

I added this to double-deck section, also meld bidding.--Buckboard 08:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the scoring system doesn't need to be duplicated in the double-deck section? --Ashawley 01:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The double deck section has the scoring explanation removed and unduplicated. --71.161.219.150 22:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

there are many different ways to score. such as runs are 19, 20 with the nine. open bid at 25, marriage worth 2, 4 if trump. pinochle is 4, double is 30.

Have played where taking all the tricks is 'Pulling a Pinochle' and is an automatic game win (500 point game) or +500 points if in negative score. Anyone whos played it this way, have other team take a single trick with no points? Is it still a Pinochle or just worth 50 points? No Names Please (talk) 10:37, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

My (California) parents taught me the lower scoring style: Minimum bid 15 in single deck game, rising by one each time; and minimum 50 in double pinochle, rising by one to 60, then by 5 point jumps. Scoring: 4-30-70-game for 1-2-3-4 pinochles; 15-150 for single/double runs; 4-40, 6-60, 8-80, 10-100 for single/double Jacks, Queens, Kings and Aces around (hence, "100 Aces" means two in each of four suits); 2-4-24 for single marriage, marriage in trump and marriages around; one point for an extra nine of trump, but only in single-deck (nines discarded in double -deck /partners game). DOR (HK) (talk) 04:40, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Resolving duplicate cards
When two copies of the same card are played in the same trick who wins the trick?

Typically the highest card played first takes precendence.

First played is always the rule. That's what makes taking your opponent's ace of trump so sweet. IMO more fun than over-trumping.--Buckboard 08:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

More players?
There is mention in the introductoin about five and six player games, but no accompanying explanation later in the article.

This is mentioned in the article in the "Five-handed and larger Pinochle" and the "Racehorse Pinochle" sections.

Question on the "Playing Tricks" section
There is one method here mentioned that is not typical to the version of Pinochle that I am familiar with. i.e. Leading with trump. Is there any external verification to ensure that this is the standard of play? If it cannot be verified is there a way that we can include a statement suggesting that leading with trump or not are simply two different ways to play? Thanks. ~Rymnel~

Agreed--I have never played this way, nor is it in my edition of Hoyle. Trump is declared by the bid winner, and strategy is the key to the game. The object is to play to your strength, which may vary from hand to hand (i.e. lots of trump, or lots of aces, or short-suited) and to get through to your partner for tricks after playing out your leads. That makes playing trump as the first lead not only pointless but frankly much less fun.--Buckboard 08:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm quite convinced that there is no standard way to play. There are merely more and less common variants. I agree that I have also never heard of requiring trump as the first lead. In fact, the whole "Playing Tricks" section is notably divergent from my own posted rules set. I'll make some edits to reflect alternative models of play. Snarke 19:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Bunch?
My family has used a sort of back-up option for if none of the players have a good enough hand to play. We allow the first player to choose if they want to bid, and before the first bid, any player is allowed to call "Bid or Bunch" which means that they may bid if someone else does, or if the rest of the players say either "bid or bunch" or pass, then the hand is thrown in and the next hand is dealt. We also increased the minimum bid to 25 (or 250 depending on method of scoring). I wonder if anyone else has ever played this way, or if it is a family modification. Thanks --Emily

Curious variant. However we have always played "cut-throat"--which means if you're the dealer and everyone passes, you'd better be able to declare trump (marriage in trump suit). Making tricks or going set is always problematical when the bid is "dumped on" you!--Buckboard 08:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

 * My family has always had "bid or bunch", but it's a little different. Minimum bid is 25 (250) for 4-handed play, the first person can open or pass, same for the second.  The third person can then open, pass (dump the bid on the dealer) or ask the last person (the dealer) to "bid or bunch".  If the dealer wants to bid, they do, otherwise it gets tossed in and the hand is redealt.  I've been told that's North Dakota rules, but I'm sure others in North Dakota have different rules.  We can also throw in the hand if somebody has 5 nines (the person holding that hand can play it if they want, but usually they don't want to).  We allow some limited talking to the partner (they can ask their partner if it's okay to throw it in), but I'm sure that's not standard. Nerfer (talk) 16:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Separate pages?
Would it be easier to try and reorganize a lot of the information on this site into seperate pages? For instance, have one page specifically for two handed variations, another for three handed, four handed, etc. And include single and double deck underneath each. Just a thought, as there's several variations on the main page. Uzerzero 01:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I think someday that reorganization would make it easier for readers to use the page, and that would make this article just be a short summary of the game. Unfortunately, each separate article would duplicate the basic information about Pinochle--decks, betting. That would make them harder to maintain. But I think this page will stabilize at some point in the future and allow us to do just what you've suggested. --71.161.218.197 00:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

What about splitting off the section to separate pages, now? The article has changed a lot since July 2006. --Ashawley 04:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Dealing options
In the version I have played, the dealer is allowed to deal in groups of three, four, five so long as all players get the same number of cards on a given round of the deal. Here are some of the options: 3-3-3-3-3 or 4-4-4-3 / 4-3-4-4 etc or  5-5-5. The 5-5-5 option is generally employed only near the end of a close game.Watercat77 19:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Question on Racehorse
The deal of 20 per player and 4 in the blind calls for a deck of 124 cards. Since the standard double deck is 80, what additional cards are included for six players? Are there two teams of three players each? -- 69.153.27.57

I can't find an actual reference for the variation called Racehorse Pinochle in three relatively modern playing card books:

 * 1) U.S. Play Card Company's Official Rules of Card Games. 90th edition.
 * 2) Frey's According to Hoyle.
 * 3) Scarne on Cards, 1965.

I think "Racehorse" is just a variation of six-hand. Some Web sites suggest it's a variation that allows card passing by the bid winner. I don't know.

The six-handed games I read in those sources suggest using a triple pack and dealing 16 or 12, not 20. --71.169.128.3 01:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The variant I've heard described uses 2.5 standard decks without the 9's. Clearly some clarification needs to be written for the current description as the card count doesn't work as it stands.

Opening Bid
I have never played where the dealer opens at 150. The rule is the player to the dealers left starts (or passes) and the lowest bid cannot be less than 250.

I've generally played low bid no lower than 250 and understand that to be the rule. But have participated under house rules where the bid is 'dropped' on the dealer for 200 or 150. - swp

Passing Cards
I have never played the version stated here. What I have played is the one where the bidder declares trump, the partner chooses four cards to pass, then the bidder chooses four cards to pass back.

We refer to these variations as 'peak' and 'no peak' In the Upper-mid West 'no peak' is the standard and 'peak' is the variant. In the Southwest 'peak' is the standard and 'no peak' is the variant. - swp

Also a 3 card pass is standard in the Upper-mid West where a 4 card pass is more common in the Southwest. I have no experience with the New England game. - swp

December 2006 changes
A lot of contributions have been made this month to the article, some more speculative than others and some more helpful than others, but I've tried cleaning them up just now. Try viewing the diff from November 7, 2006 to today, it may give a substantive synopsis of what's changed recently. Happy editing, --75.69.1.233 01:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Idea for picture
I have an idea for a picture for this article. How about a photograph of a decent Pinochle hand, or perhaps a bunch of melds laid out. The Euchre article has the best hand shown in a picture. --75.68.201.229 20:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Pinochle variant in Turkey
In Turkey we're playing a variant of Pinochle, which I couldn't find anywhere in wikipedia. The difference is, there're 96 cards (4 times 24 deck), can be played only with 2 players, each player has a hand with 9 cards, non-trump run is also awarded. For counting the points we're using a wooden counter special for this game.

There's one more variant of this game, which is played by 3 players, with 80 cards (4 times 24 deck without nines). Each player has a hand of 25 cards, and 5 cards are kept closed until the end of bidding.

Is there anyone who knows if these games are also played in other countries? Is there any english name for these card games? iyigun 17:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

3 hand double deck 5 card kitty
I was prison where I learned to play this version prefered for gambling for inmates. As it is 2 players against 1. I cannot find any information about it. Please help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.179.67 (talk) 19:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I enjoy playing this type of pinochle as well. Do you have any particular question about the variation? Or are you just wondering why it's not included? Jamie L.talk 04:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Setup
Here is a variation of pinochle that we use in our household. It creates quite an interesting game.

We use two decks of pinochle cards (96 cards, 4 of each variety of card, numbered 9-A).

Bidding
We start the bidding out at 35, until all pass to the highest bidder. The winner of the bid calls trump. The only requirement for making trump is that you must have some in your hand.

Bidder Picks up Blind
After trump is called, and before melds are made, the bidder gets the blind, showing everyone what the blind is.

Melding
Melding begins using the following table:

Meld Possibilities
If "Round Robin" is used, cannot count the "Kings Around", "Queens Around", or "Marriages" used for "Round Robin". But if another "Kings Around", "Queens Around", or "Marriages" the double amount may be used for the additional type of cards. Also the "Run" includes a Royal Marriage, but if an additional Royal Marriage is held it can count for a double.

Meld Example

 * K♠,K♠,Q♠,K♣,K♣,Q♣,K♥,K♥,Q♥,K♦,K♦,Q♦ = (K♠,Q♠,K♣,Q♣,K♥,Q♥,K♦,Q♦) ( K♠,K♣,K♥,K♦ ,K♠,K♣,K♥,K♦) = "Round Robin" + Double "Kings Around" = 26 + 80 = 106
 * A♠,10♠,K♠,K♠,Q♠,Q♠,J♠ = (A♠,10♠,K♠,Q♠,J♠) ( K♠,Q♠ ,K♠,Q♠) = "Run" + Double "Royal Marriage" = 15 + 30 = 45
 * A♠,10♠,K♠,K♠,Q♠,Q♠,Q♠,J♠,J♦,J♦,J♦ = (A♠,10♠,K♠,Q♠,J♠) ( K♠,Q♠ ,K♠,Q♠) ( Q♠,Q♠ ,Q♠,J♦,J♦,J♦) = "Run" + Double "Royal Marriage" + Triple "Pinochle" = 15 + 30 + 90 = 135 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.227.185.163 (talk) 04:33, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Returning Cards to the Blind
After the meld is laid down, but before the meld is scored, bidder must secretly discard four cards to the "blind", they cannot be trump. If the bidder has all less than four cards elgible cards in his hand, the bidder must forfeit some points on the table to discard the remaining cards.

Play Begins
Bidder starts play each player must try to beat the highest card on the table, if player does not have a card in the suit that was led, he must play trump, if he is out of trump, he may play any card he wants.

Hand Exhausted
After play is completed, player who gets last trick gets the four cards thrown in the "blind".

Trick Points Added
Points are then added from tricks and "blind" based on the following:

Penalties Incurred
If one team recieves no trick points, that team cannot count their meld and the opposing team receives another 50 points for a total of 100 points.

If bidder does not make the bidded amount when adding meld to trick points, the bidder receives no points for the round and, actually, loses the amount bidded as a penalty for over-bidding.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.227.185.163 (talk) 03:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Comprehensive Pinochle Documentation
This site has documented 4 handed pinochle in a comprensive series of documents. There is also a pinochle hand evaluator program. Although there are many variations of the game, this version captures a truly addictive method of playing this game. Website —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbcnslt (talk • contribs) 23:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Blurring of rules
This article had the rules and melds of different pinochle games listed as standard which would confuse the novice. Since the standard game these days is pretty much partnership auction pinochle and the rules already posted were about 90% correct for this version I have removed the rules that are only in variant versions and put them in their respective variant entries. I'm sure there is more work to do but it's a start. Melds can be a sticky wicket since there are so many house versions. I stuck with the two versions of Hoyle I own and the Bicycle card website. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:59, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * We should put a statement that many regional or family variations exist (details on passing, minimum opening bid, bid-or-bunch, throwing it in on 5 nines, etc.) I don't know of other card games that have that much variety. Nerfer (talk) 16:44, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Kitty in three player games
The discussion regarding the kitty in a three player games is a bit confusing. I am not sure if this is simply poor writing or an attempt to list variations. In one sentence it states the non-scoring cards are discarded by the bid winner; later it states that any cards may be discarded. In the version I am used to, any cards may be discarded, and in fact, discarding scoring cards which are unlikely trick winners is a wise strategy. But others may play differently, so I am hesitant to edit this. Wschart (talk) 03:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

 * It took me a second... actually the "kitty" is money or points given to an imaginary 4th player in a 3 player game of pinochle. But I read it and you are talking about the "widow." I agree it was badly written and confusing. I checked 3 sources and all agreed on how the widow is played. You may discard any three cards that "aren't melded." So you would take the widow, lay down your meld, dump any three cards remaining in your hand, and then pick up your meld. I fixed the article wording to reflect this and I hope that helps clarify. I'm sure there are many 3-player house rules and if you can find one on the internet simply add it to the end of the 3-player game under "variations" with a proper source. Good catch on the wording. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Back after some time. This section looks pretty good now, except that it says that if you don't have enough cards left in your hand, you can pick up meld cards. But it does make it clear that if you do so, you lose that meld. Of course, there just might be a version where you can meld a bunch and then if you have less than 3 cards in your hand, you can discard meld and still keep the score, but I'd rather doubt that. Wschart (talk) 15:40, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Proposal for a major change
I would propose, for sake of lay readers, that a new major section be introduced, after the History and Deck sections, that gives a broad overview of game play. As it is, the article becomes too detailed, too quickly, losing readers wanting to first understand the overall nature of the game. Until the Deck section it is suitably useful; after, it leads one to close the window, and seek initial information elsewhere. 00:42, 1 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.87.100 (talk)

External links modified
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“favorite card game of American Jews”
Ref: Will Eisner’s story “Cookalein”, in the full page scene “Pinkus Firs”. (I only have a German version, sorry.) – Fritz Jörn (talk) 06:07, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Origin of Pinochle
There appears to be some confusion about the origins of Pinochle as the discussion Talk:Binokel shows. A copy is given below as it relates more to this article than Binokel.

 * The following is a copy of the discussion at Talk:Binokel which is imported here for background.

== Typical Wikipedia... ==

This article is on the main page where it proudly states:
 * Binokel, from which the American card game of Pinochle was developed in the 19th century,

Whereras as the Pinochle article says in its second sentence:

 * It is derived from the card game bezique

So which is it? Before this article was published on the main page, I would have thought someone would have checked this was the case?86.128.26.123 (talk) 22:59, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

 * Well first of all, it's not really the job of the DYK process to check the veracity of all other related articles in Wikipedia. The DYK statement is backed by an authoritative source and we were satisfied it was right. Meanwhile, I've checked the sources again and it would appear that Binokel may have been derived from Bezique's predecessor, Besi. So Bezique and Pinochle are related but it's not accurate to say Pinochle was derived from Bezique; it was derived from Binokel which in turn probably came from Besi. Interestingly the Pinochle article doesn't cite any sources for it's bold, but IMHO misleading, statements. I'll go and change it now. Bermicourt (talk) 09:14, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

 * Well my intent was to amend this article as per the above and in line with the sources I have, but my edits have been reverted. However, the statements that Pinochle is derived from Bezique are not referenced, so I'd be grateful if someone could cite them. According to card historian, Parlett, they are related, but as cousins descending from a common ancestor; one is not the ancestor of the other. Bermicourt (talk) 17:39, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
 * In Print. The New Complete Hoyle by Morehead,Fry and Smith: "The original game of Pinochle is for two players, is almost identical to Bezique and is unquestionably derived from that game." The origin of the name is as follows... As pronounced in French, Bezique is much like "besicles": eyeglasses. Binocle in French and German also mean eyeglasses. This is from the book which I will cite. There is also the following. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Interesting. The fact they use "unquestionably" seems to imply it's speculation on their part and, of course, it is definitely questionable when you look at research by international card historian and card games expert, David Parlett. For example:
 * "American Pinochle developed in nineteenth-century immigrant communities from Binokel..." Parlett, David (2008) The Penguin Book of Card Games, Penguin, London/New York.
 * "Binokel. The still popular German game from which Pinochle derives..." Ibid.
 * "Bezique. There are many theories as to its meaning.... Its ancestor besi or besit means eye-glasses or spectacles. This is also the meaning of binocle, from which derives pinochle. Two-pack Bezique, an improvement on its 32-card ancestor..." the ancestor being besi from the context. Ibid
 * "Binocle, Binokel, Pinochle. Across the Atlantic, Bezique took sufficient hold to reach the pages of Dick and Fitzgerald's Modern Pocket Hoyle of 1868. It was, however, very soon eclipsed by its more down-to-earth German cousin, and that cousin was eventually to become one of America's most illustrious contributions to the world of card games. Binokel, still widely played as a famiy game in Württemberg, is of the usual 'origin obscure'. The game itself is virtually identical with Besi, the forerunner of Bezique... It first appears in the American Hoyles of the 1880s under the spelling Penuchle… later as Pinocle, and eventually as that cross between the two which is now standard spelling." Significantly they are grouped under the same heading, whereas Bezique is covered separated. Parlett, David (1991) A History of Card Games, OUP, Oxford/New York.
 * It is easy to see how non-historians might have confused the relationship between Bezique and Pinochle, but card researcher Parlett is clear that they are cousins and that Pinochle developed from Binokel imported to the US by German immigrants; even the similarity of the names suggests that. HTH. Bermicourt (talk) 15:57, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * But there is also Pinochle an overview, and Encyclopedia Britannica, telling of it's derivation from bezique. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:48, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * There is also the problem of it's name. If we were to use binocle as its derivation, then it should not be one of the terms in it's name. It would be a separate entity and need to be removed. Right now it's treated as a name variation or playing variation of the same game. But my thoughts are, with multiple sources saying multiple things, perhaps the sentence of its derivation should be re-worded to include both possibilities or dropped because it's unsure. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:35, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid the only credible source, i.e. one with research credentials, is Parlett. It looks very much as if modern Hoyle's has forgotten its own history and speculated on Pinochle's origins; the myth has then been picked up by internet sites and perpetuated. EB, being a tertiary source, is considered less reliable by Wikipedia. I do agree with your point about the name, binocle, noting that Binokel used to redirect here which was also wrong, and have edited (and cited) the lede accordingly, so that's fixed. Bermicourt (talk) 22:30, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * That is not the only credible source listed by a long shot. We have good sources for each derivation and it can easily be worded as such. It could be done as follows:

 * The origins of pinochle are somewhat convoluted, with some sources saying it derives from binocle, while others have it evolving from bezique. Its name comes from the French word binocle meaning "eyeglasses".

 * It's not a big change yet helps our readers understand the variance. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:13, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You have to admit, though, that the name is a bit of a giveaway. Binokel - Pinochle. If it had been derived from Bezique, which was already well know in the US at the time, it would be more likely to have been corrupted to "Pezique" not "Pinochle" lol. Bermicourt (talk) 00:29, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
 * That all depends on how you are reading it. I would not expect the name of the card game that pinochle derives from to be a name anywhere near similar. But I would expect the spelling name "pinochle" to be similar to "binocle" since when it was brought over to the USA the name got scrambled into an American name. At that time binocle and pinochle were really the same game with a different spelling. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:44, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
 * In which case we seem to be in agreement; that in the early days Pinuchle (as it was then spelt) was the published name given to Binokel (German spelling; Binocle is the Swiss name), the game brought over by German immigrants. Bezique had already been established in the US and didn't change it's name - why would it? Bermicourt (talk) 09:26, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
 * That's how I read it. Fyunck(click) (talk) 01:29, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * And as if to confirm that Bezique and Pinochle are cousins The American Hoyle in 1896 listed the rules for both "Bézique" and "Pinocle" separately. Bermicourt (talk) 09:36, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
 * However it also calls pinochle "a variety" of bezique right in the first sentence of the lead. Oh and binocle isn't mentioned at all so I guess it doesn't qualify as a game that derives from bezique. You can read these things so many ways... even the word "cousins" is vague. Does cousins mean that both bezique and pinochle have the same grandfather game? Fyunck(click) (talk) 01:29, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I can only see the snippet view, so can't read that, but the opening sentence says "Pinocle is an essentially German game..." which kind of clinches it because Bezique was a French game. And binocle is mentioned; it's just spelt Pinocle. My reading of Parlett is that the grandfather was a French game, Besi, from which both Bezique (in France) and Binokel (in Germany/Switzerland) developed. Bezique travelled to England and America and caught on in both places. Binokel was taken by south German immigrants to America, where the spelling changed to Pinocle (a "b" and a "p" sounding very similar in south German). but was initially the same game. It was then developed further into modern Pinochle. So Bezique and Binokel/Binocle are siblings. And that would make modern Pinochle a sort of 'nephew' of Bezique or possibly a 'cousin' if the latter has also changed somewhat over time. The earlier Hoyle's seem to fall in line with that; after the war, they get re-edited and that's when the text about Pinochle descending directly from Bezique creeps in, which would appear not to be quite right, although you can see why it happened. Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to you and all your family! Bermicourt (talk) 15:46, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Further evidence that this game came from Binokel and not Bezique (as if the name wasn't obvious enough) is that, as the article says, "during World War I, the city of Syracuse, New York outlawed the playing of pinochle in a gesture of anti-German sentiment." Why would they do that, if it was derived from a French game?! If Pinochle is really descended from Bezique, that sentence in the article makes no sense and should be removed. But the reality is that it was a German game. Bermicourt (talk) 19:59, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Might as well include both possible origins and let readers decide. It seems the best solution. I picked an order but it's no big deal if you want it flipped (as long as it remains completely balanced). Hopefully this will remedy going to some level of dispute resolution. Cheers. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:18, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Fine to include possible origins as reported in reliable sources, but do we have such sources? Does Morehead's 1991 Hoyle book actually support it deriving directly from bezique, or was that an editing error? (It was previously only being used to support the statement that Binokel descends from Bezique.) I've removed the playingcardsandmore.com source and catsatcards.com references as inappropriate sources: both are anonymous articles (well, one claims to have literally been written by some cats) and the former is also an advert. --Lord Belbury (talk) 17:57, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * My goodness, I didn't even know this ridiculousness was still going on. To be honest, those other sources that you removed were as additional sources. But I don't reallt care that you removed them. As for an editing error, I guess you'll have to contact Morehead. I guess well also have to contact writers of every book that happens our way at wikipedia to make sure they mean what they say instead of perhaps falling asleep at the keyboard. As it says in "verifiability": Do not reject reliable sources just because they are difficult or costly to access. If you have trouble accessing a source, others may be able to do so on your behalf." Some library might have a copy for you If a quote from the book isn't good enough for you. This isn't a biography of a living person and I'd appreciate a little good faith on your part. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, I mean an editing error on your part, not Morehead's. When you rearranged the paragraph to say that Pinochle may have derived directly from Bezique, you left Morehead there as a source for this statement - which seemed like it could be an oversight, as the same reference tag was previously being used to source a different statement. Did you check a copy of his book at the time to confirm that it said this, or was the tag left there in error? --Lord Belbury (talk) 11:03, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. If you read this entire conversation you can see that the derivation is quoted in full. For ease of seeing it I quote Morehead again: "The original game of Pinochle is for two players, is almost identical to Bezique, and is unquestionably derived from that game." I hope that helps clarify it. Cheers. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:24, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Got it, I missed that. Thanks for clarifying to a late arrival. I'll defer to User:Bermicourt as to whether this source is appropriate. --Lord Belbury (talk) 08:58, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Card game books need to be treated with caution as they often plagiarise words from older books, perpetuate myths and make unsubstantiated comments. In this case Morehead, whose material I respect from a card playing angle, is making an unsubstantiated statement. There are several other card books that make the link between Binokel and Pinochle. Morehead's use of the word "unquestionably" implies that he's looked at the rules for Bezique and Pinochle and spotted the similarities, but because A and B are similar doesn't necessarily mean B was derived from A. Parlett, on the other hand, is an historian who does at least cite most of his sources and I've quoted him above. I'm not saying it's a cast iron case; but our role is to use judgment about what is a reliable source. My own research to date into original sources reveals the following:
 * The earliest known mention of Pinochle is in the 1864 edition of The American Hoyle which describes the rules of Bezique and then says "It is known among our German brethren as Peanukle."
 * The earliest rules for Pinochle appear in the 1885 edition of The American Hoyle. Prior to that only Bezique is described.
 * In 1894 The American Hoyle states that "Pinochle is essentially a German game; it was originally played with one full pack of fifty-two cards and was evidently a German variety of Bezique."
 * In 1897 Foster in Foster's Complete Hoyle states "judging from the rank of the cards, which is peculiar to German games, Bezique may have originated in an attempt to play Binocle with a piquet pack..." and "One German writer says the game [of Binocle] is of Swiss origin."
 * Meanwhile in the 1856 edition of the Revue Suisse it mentions that the inhabitants of Vevey on Lake Geneva played at Brelan and Binocle. This lends credence to a Swiss origin as it predates the earliest Pinochle reference. The 1876 edition of the Revue also reports Swiss folk playing Binocle.
 * The earliest mention of Binokel in Germany is in the 1888 Deutsche Encyklopädie where it is recorded as a popular card game in Switzerland that is the same as Bezique but with several small differences.
 * Meanwhile Bésigue is not recorded earlier than 1847 in Paris where Méry says that it is a new game. The website Académie des Jeux Oubliés says that the game descended from Brisque and Briscan; that it is often claimed to have orginated in Limousin or Angoumois where it was called Bezi, but there is nothing to confirm such claims.
 * So the consensus from early American sources appears to be that Pinochle is German (that could mean either Swiss German or southwest German) in origin and came from Binocle. However, it's also clear that Bezique and Binocle are related. Was Bezique invented first in southeast rural France and then spread both to Switzerland and Paris where it was rapidly picked up in England and America at almost the same time? Did Bezique become Swiss Binocle even before that? Or was Binocle invented in Switzerland, then spread to France? We don't know. However, Morehead and one or two other modern authors excepted, the sources seem to be saying that Binocle, a cousin of Bezique, arrived in America under that name, imported by German-speaking immigrants, the name was corrupted to Peanukle, Pinocle etc and took off as a suite of games in its own right. Bermicourt (talk) 11:12, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

I now have a copy of the New Complete Hoyle Revised by Morehead et al. and look forward to using it. In addition to the claim cited above, it states that both Bezique and Pinochle in their relatively modern version date to the 1860s. Well that clearly doesn't make sense since there is no "earlier version" of Pinochle in the sources. Bezique was, however, initially played with a single pack and that was still the case in France in the 1860s when American two-handed Pinochle was using a double pack that is the hallmark of Binocle. Contradicting itself, the book then goes on to say (p. 362) that "the original game of Bezique was invented in the 1860s" which is clearly wrong as we know it appeared in Paris in 1847. So its a good book for card game rules, but its historical commentary looks a bit shaky. Bermicourt (talk) 11:47, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

 * Whether or not Pinochle should be said to have derived from Binocle or Bezique, I believe there is a problem with the way the origins section is presented at the moment. The two possible theories as to its relationship to Binocle and Bezique are worded very similarly and are very hard to parse. On first reading, I thought they were restatements of the same theory, and it took multiple passes to decipher what the article actually meant. I think it needs to be rewritten(. Ellacution (talk) 03:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pinochle


text:
User talk:JlsElsewhere

Welcome!

'''Hello,, Welcome  to Wikipedia! '''I hope you like working here and want to continue. If you need help on how to name new articles, look at Naming Conventions, and for help on formatting the pages visit the Manual of Style. If you need general help, look at Help and the FAQ, and if you can't find your answer there, check the Village pump (for Wikipedia related questions) or the Reference Desk (for general questions). There's still more help at the Tutorial and the Policy Library. Also, don't forget to visit the Community Portal — and if you have any more questions after that, feel free to post them on my New-Users' Talk Page.'''

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Happy editing! Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 22:02, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image License
Hi, I just noticed that your image Image:NewarkAirportMonorail.jpg has an obsolete license tag. Please update the tag by choosing one of the alternatives listed on that page. Thanks! Paul

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:JlsElsewhere


text:
Wiki Peak

Wiki Peak is a mountain in the Nutzotin Mountains of Alaska within Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve. It is located near the Canada–United States border. The best way to reach Wiki Peak is to charter a flight into Horsfeld. Crossing Beaver Creek is necessary to access Wiki Peak. The creek can be high and dangerous or easily crossed, depending on time of year and the weather.

Obsidian
Wiki Peak obsidian was used by humans as early as 13,400 cal BP. Such obsidian was recovered at the Broken Mammoth site. Such obsidian was also used at the Walker Road, Alaska, site, and Moose Creek, Alaska, site in the same area—all dating to before 13,000 cal BP.

"The Wiki Peak obsidian source is in the Nutzotin Mountains (Wrangell-St Elias National Park). An investigation of the Wiki Peak obsidian source was conducted in the past decade, and over 65 archaeological sites were recorded in a survey of the immediate area. The high concentration of sites is typical for other obsidian source areas in Alaska and northwest Canada, with few exceptions.

title: Wiki Peak


text:
French ship Tonnerre (L9014)

Tonnerre (L9014; lit. Thunder) is an amphibious assault helicopter carrier of the Marine Nationale. She is the eighth vessel to bear the name and the second ship in the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship amphibious assault ship series.

Construction and career
Tonnerre was laid down in two parts. On 26 August 2003, the aft section was laid down by Arsenal de Brest at Brest and the bow section was laid down 5 May 2004 by Chantiers de Saint-Nazaire at Saint-Nazaire. The vessel was launched on 26 July 2005 and began active service in December 2006.

Tonnerre's maiden voyage occurred between 10 April and 24 July 2007. During this voyage, Tonnerre was involved in Opération Licorne, the French co-deploying complement to the United Nations Operation in Côte d'Ivoire following the Ivorian Civil War. Gazelle and Cougar helicopters of the French Air Force operated from the ship beginning on 9 July.

At the start of 2008, Tonnerre was involved in the Corymbe 92 mission (see Standing French Navy Deployments), a humanitarian mission in the Gulf of Guinea. During this deployment, Tonnerre acted on tip-offs from the European Maritime Analysis Operation Centre – Narcotics, and intercepted 5.7 t of smuggled cocaine: 2.5 t from a fishing vessel 520 km from Monrovia on 29 January, and 3.2 t from a cargo ship 300 km off Conakry.

In May 2011, the French Military deployed Tiger and Gazelle helicopters on the ship to augment forces engaged in Opération Harmattan and later Operation Unified Protector during the Libyan Civil War. along with allied ships such as the British helicopter carrier HMS Ocean (L12) which also provided its own attack helicopters.

In 2020, Tonnerre was deployed to Beirut, Lebanon, shortly after an ammonium nitrate explosion at the city's port killed roughly 200 people and caused significant destruction, including the loss of the nation's main grain elevator. The ship arrived in Beirut on 2020.08.13 with "75,000 army rations, large quantities of flour, [and] medical supplies", as well as fire trucks and construction materials. Around 350 personnel were to join the clean-up efforts around the port, which was expected to take weeks.

In 2021, Tonnerre deployed to the Pacific accompanied by the frigate FRENCH FRIGATE Surcouf, to conduct the joint La Perouse naval exercise with the four Quadrilateral Security Dialogue members participating. From 18 November to 2 December 2021, Tonnerre took part in Exercise Polaris 21 in the western Mediterranean Sea. In late 2022 she operated with the frigate FRENCH FRIGATE Germinal in anti-piracy operations in the Gulf of Guinea.

In October 2023 Tonnerre was deployed as a hospital ship to the Eastern Mediterranean during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, joining the frigates FRENCH FRIGATE Alsace and Surcouf which were also deployed to the region.

In 2024, Tonnerre, accompanied by the frigate Guépratte, was tasked to undertake a prolonged deployment circumventing South America and also visiting North America. As part of her deployment, the ship was to embark 162 officer cadets and a French Army detachment including two Gazelle helicopters, two light (armoured) cavalry platoons, one section from the 2nd Marine Infantry Regiment as well as other elements including some 40 vehicles among them the VBMR Griffon.

title: French ship Tonnerre (L9014)


text:
User talk:Gurp13

Welcome
Hi, I see you haven't done much on Wikipedia yet but already you're trying to stop vandalism and, I couldn't help noticing, apologising with great grace when you made an error.

Welcome. Please stay, we have good people but we can always find a place for more.

Here's the standard "welcome" spiel. But please click on the "talk" link at the end of this message and ask if you ever need help.

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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--Tony Sidaway|Talk 22:04, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply. I'm delighted that you're interested in helping.  When you make an entry on a talk page, please remember to type "~" at the end in order to leave a signature and timestamp.  A refinement of this is to go to your preferences link and edit the content of the field marked "your nickname (for signatures)" so it says "Gurp13]]|Talk" (without the quotes), which will ensure that a "talk" link appears in your signature. People can then reply to you on this user talk page easily by clicking that link. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway|Talk 10:22, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:KaiserHighSchoolSeal.jpg
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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. MECU ≈ talk 19:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi. I wasn't making this a guessing game. It is the uploader's responsibility to provide the required information to get the image allowed into Wikipedia. Instead of just fixing the problem, you learned something that likely you wouldn't have if I had just put the logo tag on it. Please don't get upset, there is likely nothing here at Wikipedia to get all wrapped up about. In the end, all of our actions produce a better encyclopedia. Also, see WP:IMAGES on how to use images in Wikipedia. -- MECU ≈ talk 22:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree I should have pointed you to the list of available tags, especially after the second time. I'm sorry, but thank you for the feedback and I will use this in the future in dealing with situations like this. -- MECU ≈ talk 22:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:KATSlogo.jpg
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:KaiserHighSchoolSeal.jpg)
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title: User talk:Gurp13


text:
Talk:Wiki Peak

Untitled
Note that Wiki Peak is the only entry in Encarta for "wiki" -- seeing how Encarta just enabled wiki editing, it might be a good thing to build out this page as a way of showing Microsoft how it is done.

title: Talk:Wiki Peak


text:
My Life Among the Serial Killers

My Life Among the Serial Killers: Inside the Minds of the World's Most Notorious Murderers is a book written by Helen Morrison and Harold Goldberg. It presents the cases of ten serial killers, and touches on many more. Morrison spent hundreds of hours in face-to-face interviews, over many years, with several of the subjects. She uses the individual stories to explain and put forth her ideas on what makes a serial killer. The book has received criticism for being factually inaccurate on several topics.

The cases
Morrison begins her story in the early 1970s, when psychiatry and law enforcement had a very different view of these types of crimes. At that time, the term serial killer hadn't been coined. She was initially asked by the FBI to help with interrogating Richard Macek who was suspected of several murders, of which Macek claimed no memory. One of the murders had been attributed to Richard Milone, who spent many years wrongfully incarcerated. Morrison also recounts the difficulties professional women faced working with male-dominated law enforcement at that time. This began her thirty-year research on serial killers.

The cases she reviews in detail are:
 * Richard Macek
 * Ed Gein
 * John Wayne Gacy
 * Peter Sutcliffe
 * Wayne Williams
 * Bobby Joe Long
 * Robert Berdella
 * Michael Lee Lockhart
 * Fred West
 * Marcelo Costa de Andrade
 * Gary Ridgway
 * Ben Legaspi

Morrison uses the story of each serial killer to lay a basis for her theory of why they murder, making frequent comparisons and forays into unrelated cases to illustrate similarities between serial killers' personalities and their lack of motives.

Serial killer traits
The recurring characteristic serial killers share, Morrison contends, is the emotional age of an infant. Serial killers lack a coherent personality and are missing large parts of their humanity. They are generally charismatic and able to fit in by learning to behave as normal people do, while lacking the empathy most normal people possess. Most serial killers are fluent liars, often protest against the injustice of their incarceration and are unable to understand that they did anything wrong. They have a fractured psyche which is incapable of connecting their crimes with the consequences, and often proclaim no memory of the murders. She also notes frequent instances of hypochondria among serial killers.

Morrison's list of serial killer traits include:

 * No understandable motive for killing
 * No personality structure, no personality development over time
 * They are not psychopaths; in some ways they lack self-control, and the ability to think and feel
 * Most are above average intelligence
 * They are psychologically incomplete human beings, but learn to act as though they are
 * Not all have been sexually or physically abused
 * They are uncontrollably addicted to killing
 * They occur in all societies
 * Serial killing has occurred throughout history

Morrison also notes a remarkable lack of substance abuse in serial killers.

Insanity defense
Morrison argues that most serial killers should not be counted guilty of their crimes by reason of insanity; she contends that they are incapable of understanding the evil of their actions despite being, in many cases, highly functioning individuals in society. She describes the mind of a serial killer as flying through life with large blind spots and missing pieces of what it means to be human, and claims that these people are untreatable because they are missing the parts that need treatment.

Morrison's theory of why people become serial killers
Morrison disagrees with or downplays theories that attribute serial killing to complex psychological motives such as suffering child abuse, which is not a consistent factor. She contends that serial killers are so lacking in emotional development that they have no capacity for complex emotional motives.

The book presents various facts, perceptions and descriptions of serial killers in a diffused way and ties the ideas together at the end while presenting the theory that the origin of a serial killer's behavior is genetic. An illustrative example notes that serial killers experience profound physiological events during their crimes that are related to the hypothalamus and that the serial killer's lack of emotion has a similar connection to the hypothalamus. Morrison also describes how serial killers' crimes are similar to drug addiction.

Criticism
Neuropsychiatrist Rachael Bell compiled a list of common complaints against Morrison and her theories:

 * Morrison uses "unsubstantiated myths" in her work, most notably in a section where she reviews historical cases of serial killings, such as those of Elizabeth Bathory.
 * Although Morrison claims that serial killers have "irresistible impulses," she is unable to reconcile these impulses with the extremely methodical manner in which they find and dispose of victims.
 * Morrison does not use a large enough sample; Bell commented that she has found no proof that Morrison actually conducted in-depth interviews with 80 killers.

An investigative piece written by Cliff Doerkson for the Chicago Reader alleges that Morrison's book is inconsistent with accepted fact and with itself. Among other criticisms, Doerkson offers these:
 * Morrison uses an idiosyncratic definition of the term "serial killer" as requiring seven victims, which excludes some of her own examples, such as Ed Gein (2 known victims). Most accepted definitions require only 2 or 3 victims.
 * Morrison claims that there are no female serial killers. Most experts recognize that, though fewer in number than male serial killers, there are in fact female serial killers, and that women such as Aileen Wuornos and Jane Toppan qualify.
 * Morrison argues that serial killers are not motivated by sexual urges. It is recognized by nearly all other experts in the field that this is not the case, and that lust is a very common motive for serial killers.
 * Morrison states that "no serial murderers are addicted to drugs, drink, or even smoking." There are multiple known instances of serial killers using drugs or alcohol. John Wayne Gacy was known to smoke marijuana, Jeffrey Dahmer was an alcoholic and Richard Ramirez was addicted to multiple illicit substances ranging from cocaine to methamphetamine.

Doerkson further argues that Morrison's theories of a genetic cause for the impulse to serial murder are insufficiently rigorous and not supported by existing scientific evidence. He additionally follows Bell in questioning Morrison's claim to have interviewed over 80 serial killers, when even an extremely significant expert in the field of serial homicide such as Robert Ressler has only interviewed roughly 40. The piece also includes interviews with several law enforcement professionals who were featured in Morrison's book, each of whom claim that Morrison has misrepresented some of the events in the book.

title: My Life Among the Serial Killers


text:
Cathepsin

Cathepsins (Ancient Greek kata- "down" and hepsein "boil"; abbreviated CTS) are proteases (enzymes that degrade proteins) found in all animals as well as other organisms. There are approximately a dozen members of this family, which are distinguished by their structure, catalytic mechanism, and which proteins they cleave. Most of the members become activated at the low pH found in lysosomes. Thus, the activity of this family lies almost entirely within those organelles. There are, however, exceptions such as cathepsin K, which works extracellularly after secretion by osteoclasts in bone resorption. Cathepsins have a vital role in mammalian cellular turnover.

Classification

 * Cathepsin A (serine protease)
 * Cathepsin B (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin C (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin D (aspartyl protease)
 * Cathepsin E (aspartyl protease)
 * Cathepsin F (cysteine proteinase)
 * Cathepsin G (serine protease)
 * Cathepsin H (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin K (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin L1 (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin L2 (or V) (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin O (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin S (cysteine protease)
 * Cathepsin W (cysteine proteinase)
 * Cathepsin Z (or X) (cysteine protease)

Clinical significance
Cathepsins are involved in many physiological processes and have been implicated in a number of human diseases. The cysteine cathepsins have attracted significant research effort as drug targets.
 * Cancer, Cathepsin D is a mitogen and "it attenuates the anti-tumor immune response of decaying chemokines to inhibit the function of dendritic cells". Cathepsins B and L are involved in matrix degradation and cell invasion.
 * Stroke
 * Traumatic brain injury
 * Alzheimer's disease
 * Arthritis
 * Ebola, Cathepsin B and to a lesser extent cathepsin L have been found to be necessary for the virus to enter host cells.
 * COPD
 * Chronic periodontitis
 * Pancreatitis
 * Several ocular disorders: keratoconus, retinal detachment, age-related macular degeneration, and glaucoma.

Cathepsin A
Deficiencies in this protein are linked to multiple forms of galactosialidosis. The cathepsin A activity in lysates of metastatic lesions of malignant melanoma is significantly higher than in primary focus lysates. Cathepsin A increased in muscles moderately affected by muscular dystrophy and denervating diseases.

Cathepsin B
Cathepsin B may function as a beta-secretase 1, cleaving amyloid precursor protein to produce amyloid beta. Overexpression of the encoded protein, which is a member of the peptidase C1 family, has been associated with esophageal adenocarcinoma and other tumors. Cathepsin B has also been implicated in the progression of various human tumors including ovarian cancer.

Cathepsin D
Cathepsin D (an aspartyl protease) appears to cleave a variety of substrates such as fibronectin and laminin. Unlike some of the other cathepsins, cathepsin D has some protease activity at neutral pH. High levels of this enzyme in tumor cells seems to be associated with greater invasiveness.

Cathepsin K
Cathepsin K is the most potent mammalian collagenase. Cathepsin K is involved in osteoporosis, a disease in which a decrease in bone density causes an increased risk for fracture. Osteoclasts are the bone resorbing cells of the body, and they secrete cathepsin K in order to break down collagen, the major component of the non-mineral protein matrix of the bone. Cathepsin K, among other cathepsins, plays a role in cancer metastasis through the degradation of the extracellular matrix. The genetic knockout for cathepsin S and K in mice with atherosclerosis was shown to reduce the size of atherosclerotic lesions. The expression of cathepsin K in cultured endothelial cells is regulated by shear stress. Cathepsin K has also been shown to play a role in arthritis.

Cathepsin V
Mouse cathepsin L is homologous to human cathepsin V. Mouse cathepsin L has been shown to play a role in adipogenesis and glucose intolerance in mice. Cathepsin L degrades fibronectin, insulin receptor (IR), and insulin-like growth factor 1 receptor (IGF-1R). Cathepsin L-deficient mice were shown to have less adipose tissue, lower serum glucose and insulin levels, more insulin receptor subunits, more glucose transporter (GLUT4) and more fibronectin than wild type controls.

Inhibitors
Five cyclic peptides show inhibitory activity towards human cathepsins L, B, H, and K. Several inhibitors have reached clinical trials, targeting cathepsins K and S as promising therapeutics for osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, and chronic pain. Cathepsin K inhibitors, Relacatib, Balicatib, and Odanacatib, were terminated during clinical trials at phases I, II, and III, respectively, owing to adverse side effects. SAR114137, a Cathepsin S inhibitor, did not progress past phase I for chronic pain. In 2022, STI-1558, a Cathepsin L inhibitor, received FDA clearance to begin phase I studies to treat COVID-19.

Cathepsin zymography
Zymography is a type of gel electrophoresis that uses a polyacrylamide gel co-polymerized with a substrate in order to detect enzyme activity. Cathepsin zymography separates different cathepsins based on their migration through a polyacrylamide gel co-polymerized with a gelatin substrate. The electrophoresis takes place in non-reducing conditions, and the enzymes are protected from denaturation using leupeptin. After protein concentration is determined, equal amounts of tissue protein are loaded into a gel. The protein is then allowed to migrate through the gel. After electrophoresis, the gel is put into a renaturing buffer in order to return the cathepsins to their native conformation. The gel is then put into an activation buffer of a specific pH and left to incubate overnight at 37 °C. This activation step allows the cathepsins to degrade the gelatin substrate. When the gel is stained using a Coomassie blue stain, areas of the gel still containing gelatin appear blue. The areas of the gel where cathepsins were active appear as white bands. This cathepsin zymography protocol has been used to detect femtomole quantities of mature cathepsin K. The different cathepsins can be identified based on their migration distance due to their molecular weights: cathepsin K (~37 kDa), V (~35 kDa), S (~25kDa), and L (~20 kDa). Cathepsins have specific pH levels at which they have optimum proteolytic activity. Cathepsin K is able to degrade gelatin at pH 7 and 8, but these pH levels do not allow for cathepsins L and V activity. At a pH 4 cathepsin V is active, but cathepsin K is not. Adjusting the pH of the activation buffer can allow for further identification of cathepsin types.

History
The term cathepsin was coined in 1929 by Richard Willstätter and Eugen Bamann to describe a proteolytic activity of leukocytes and tissues at slightly acidic pH (Willstätter & Bamann (1929) Hoppe-Seylers Z. Physiol. Chemie 180, 127-143). The earliest record of "cathepsin" found in the MEDLINE database (e.g., via PubMed) is from the Journal of Biological Chemistry in 1949. However, references within this article indicate that cathepsins were first identified and named around the turn of the 20th century. Much of this earlier work was done in the laboratory of Max Bergmann, who spent the first several decades of the century defining these proteases.

It is notable that research published in the 1930s (primarily by Bergmann) used the term "catheptic enzymes" to refer to a broad family of proteases that included papain, bromelin, and cathepsin itself. Initial efforts to purify and characterize proteases using hemoglobin transpired at a time when the word "cathepsin" indicated a single enzyme; the existence of multiple, distinct cathepsin family members (e.g. B, H, L) did not appear to be understood at the time. However, by 1937 Bergmann and colleagues began to differentiate cathepsins on the basis of their source in the human body (e.g. liver cathepsin, spleen cathepsin).

title: Cathepsin


text:
Talk:Cracked (magazine)

NPOV
Are Wikipedia Articles really supposed to say words like "blatantly aped" and "dumb, wide-jowled"? 84.216.44.15 (talk) 17:41, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

 * It certainly shouldn't say "blatantly raped" so I reverted it to "blatantly aped".
 * 76.241.75.79 (talk) 00:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I really don't think "blatantly aped" is very neutral either. In fact, the article is pretty well referenced, but it seems to be written in quite a pro-Mad/anti-Cracked tone. I added a "biased" tag to the page for now, and when I have some spare time, I'll try to re-write some of the more biased sections. 123.211.141.151 (talk) 10:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Use of Jay Pinkerton quote at end of article
I'm Jay Pinkerton, and I'm not entirely comfortable with the quote being used at the tail end of this article. It was said in the heat of passion, is grossly out of context, and is not factually accurate. Moreover, it was taken from a private thread in a forum. I'm really not comfortable at all with it being taken as a direct quote -- not only could it compromise my job, it's simply not true. If you'd like to contact me for a quote, I'd be happy to oblige.

Source for Brodsky editorship?
For the entry I've written on Sol Brodsky, I've been scouring both online and offline sources, including the in-depth tribute feature that's the cover story of Marvel Age #22 (Jan. 1985), and I'm unable to find anything about him being an editor of Cracked. Where did this info come from? I'd love to cite it in the Brodsky article, but only confirmably. Thanks! - Tenebrae 06:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

And of course, I found a citation shortly afterward. D'oh! I'll add it to the articles. - Tenebrae 07:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Mad vs. Cracked
I never understood the hype surrounding MAD. I only read Cracked as a kid in the 80's. Cracked seemed way more funny than MAD, and the art was beautiful, courtesy of Severin. I hope they release all the issues on disc some day, as I missed out on many from the late 80's through the 90's.
 * Wikipedia is not a place to give opinions. --  user:zanimum

Well, Cracked was always the perfect magazine for the type of mentality that couldn't understand the hype about MAD. You made the correct choice. MAD is funny but i dont know about cracked it seems like they made cracked 6 years later after MAD if u dont agree then U SUCK. THEND —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.183.43 (talk) 04:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Todd v. Sarhan
Any source for the "Mort may not have liked being a freelancer and answering to editors..." quote?

Or is it just an inside apologist for Monty Sarhan, being touchy about bad publicity, or settling a score?

Sarhan "went on to state" nothing. The "juvenile subject matter" remarks were not part of his original response.

 * This section currently contains a self-reference, in the phrase "appeared in this Wikipedia article..." -- nae'blis (talk) 18:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Fixed, to (so to speak) refer to WP "in the 3rd person". (For anyone confused by this matter, the point is that WP:GFDL is intended to promote copying, with and without modification, and phrases like "this article" become false when excerpted, or when kept in someone's modification of the article in question. See WP:SELF.) --Jerzy•t 17:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've removed this entire section. It seems entirely un-encyclopedic.

MAD is funny but i dont know about cracked it seems like they made cracked 6 years later after MAD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.183.43 (talk) 04:07, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

International Editions
In Brazil (where Mad has been very sucessful), there was a short-lived run of Cracked, named "Pancada". Should this be added to the article? Has anyone got any info on other international editions of Cracked? Chester br 19:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Spelling/title query
Why, of all the magazines that spell their names in capital letters on their covers, are only MAD and CRACKED spelled all-caps? Was there some consensus on this? Or did somebody just start these that way and other contributors followed suit? For what reasons are these two titoes capped but not other magazines'? - Tenebrae 15:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Because both of those publications also always spell their names in all-caps when in regular sentence-prose, not just on the cover. JesseRafe 00:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That's not a sufficient reason, for two reasons:
 * It's (just) an advertising gimmick, and
 * it's contrary to normal civilized typography.
 * I believe the question has been settled several times in the case of bands and albums, along the lines implied by the spirit of #WP:NAME, but it is also clear from the most elementary principle at Naming conventions (common names), "Use the most common name of a person or thing": what the employees do is irrelevant, what matters is what most people do, and you don't need to take a survey to know that both training and the extra effort of finding the rarely used caps-lock key (or hand-writing capitals) keeps most people from doing it. It's not so clear that most people are thotful enuf to realize (and specifically take into account in their writing) that lower case developed for a reason, which is to permit caps to be reserved for specific, attention-getting purposes:
 * Marking the start of a unit of thot (a sentence).
 * Distinguishing Dick Handler from a dick handler (since proper names are so diverse that they often duplicate common nouns, with great confusion potential.
 * SHOUTING. (Sorry, i wasn't really trying to be rude.)
 * But what has been cited by JR above is called a commercial affectation, and we remove such things when things are going well. (And they're going well today.) --Jerzy•t 18:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, for Pete's sake, it's a maZaGine, not a magazine
Since when is CRACKED a "magazine"? I never picked up an issue that wasn't titled "CRACKED Mazagine". Until I was 12 I was absolutely certain that that was how you spelled "magazine".

Since the current state of CRACKED is so dismal, perhaps more background on its glory days would be nice. Whatever became of Amos T. Svboda, whose cranky missives often appeared in the "Lettuce Column"? Did he grow up to be Weekly World News' Ed Anger?

And if anyone knows a thing or two about Bill Ward's Nanny Dickering, that might make a good addition to the article too. Was the character his own or did he inherit her, for instance? -- previously unsigned comment by 66.52.193.169.

 * You are right - so I went ahead and corrected the article. --Gbeeker 03:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm also curious as to why it's listed as a deliberate mispelling. Just because it's all caps?

Self-serving edits
64.131.196.248 14:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)*1. Save the "destination site" language for your ad pitches. The same goes for the attractive target demographic, what Monty says you won't find in other magazines, the glossy paper, the big big page count, etc. All that promo copy can be found in the links at the bottom of the page. "Wikipedia is not a vehicle for propaganda and advertising." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not
 * 2. Despite the unmitigated evil that was Dick "Satan" Kulpa, and despite the fact that the magazine was already on the decline, Cracked *did* suffer distribution woes under AMI.
 * 3. Cracked NEVER had a circulation that was half of Mad's.  You may be conflating annual circulation with per-issue circulation; Cracked was a monthly, compared with Mad's 8-times-per-year schedule.  The National Lampoon never hit 50% of Mad's per-issue circulation, for instance, and the Lampoon sold better than Cracked.  Forty years' worth of Mad's average per-issue sales are readily available online.  Some of Cracked's sales totals can also be found; those that are available suggest that the "one-third" estimation is, if anything, overly fair to Cracked.
 * 4. When a publisher gets into a public pissing match with a former editor-in-chief, it's significant.  "Edited maliciously"?  This Wikipedia page was previously edited in Sarhan's name, using some of the same phraseology as Sarhan's later public rejoinder, by an anonymous IP that also took an interest in burnishing Sarhan's Wikipedia page... odd coincidence, that.  In any event, Sarhan gets about three times the say of Todd.  I did delete the Wikiquote since it was more or less repeated in Sarhan's official reply. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.131.296.248 (talk • contribs) 09:26, 18 September 2006.

Current round of edits
64.131.196.248 19:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)Some of RXStrangelove's questions are answered within the very Comics Journal link he just put there: "Weekly World News was owned by American Media Inc., which had just acquired The Globe and, with it, Cracked magazine...Cracked had been awkwardly dropped into AMI's lap as a result of the Globe acquisition, and the tabloid publisher didn't immediately have any idea what to do with a low-circulation humor magazine for kids. Cracked Associate Editor Bobbie Bender told the Journal, "Cracked just came along for the ride with The Globe."...Barry Dutter, who had been writing freelance for Cracked since 1996, told the Journal, "One thing you have to realize is that AMI never wanted Cracked; it was just part of a package they bought from Globe Communications."

As for some of the other edits, is it *possibly* a matter of dispute that Cracked was a deliberate copy of Mad, down to very particular details? C'mon, fellas.

 * I don't have any questions, I was just taking off uncited assertions. If you have some more power to you. But things like "most successful imitator" need some sort of cite. By the way, the enjolrasworld.com link doesn't work and I didn't see anything to do with imitation. Rx StrangeLove 21:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

64.131.196.248 06:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)Dear RXS: I fixed the broken link; thanks for the catch. There are quotes about Cracked's "Mad ripoff" status within this very article, both from former Cracked editor Mort Todd, and the media site Gawker.com. Editor Terry Bisson talks about the company's reliance on "lowball imitations." If the unverified nature of saying Cracked copied Mad still troubles you, try one of these links, from comics professionals and others: http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2006_08_16.html http://www.hembeck.com/FredSez/FredSezMarch2004.htm http://www.marketingblurb.com/parody/ http://www.blowingsmokethemovie.com/archives/2006/08/cracked_is_back.php I found those urls very quickly, but they seem unneeded to me. The Wikipage on The Beatles claims that the band continues to be held in "the highest esteem" since their breakup; despite the page's editing attention and the lack of citation, the assessment has stood. The New York Yankees page makes the unsupported assertion that the franchise has been among baseball's "most storied" teams. Considering that Cracked's own website makes reference to its incarnation as a Mad ripoff, I wouldn't sweat this point.
 * I'm not going to either but as a general point we try and match the best article writing and not the mediocre...if there's something wrong with the Beatles article you should try and fix that and not bring this one down to meet it's standards. Rx StrangeLove 06:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Adding Information About Cracked.com
I'd imagine that some, if not most, of the people coming to this Wikipedia entry now are coming for information on the current incarnation of Cracked, which is a fairly popular humor website called Cracked.com. That's why I came initially and there's only a few sentences about the site amidst a sea of back and forth bickering about the direction of the magazine (which I'm pretty sure doesn't even exist any longer).

I was interested to learn that its history goes back as far as it does but there is just entirely too much detail about feuds between Editors, etc. Over the next couple of days, I'm going to make some minor edits to this entry. I will do my best to keep in tact the relevant information that is currently here, while adding as much sourced information about the website as I can gather.

Is that agreeable to everyone? Does anyone have any advice as to how to go about making these changes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bishopsayles (talk • contribs) 00:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Information about editorial bickering and past directions is included on many magazine articles at Wikipedia when it's relevant, including Mad. In the particular Todd/Sarhan example, the dueling comment war even spilled over to Wikipedia, with either Sarhan himself or a supporter leaving a statement on this page.  That anonymous Wikicomment has long been deleted, mostly because it's been replicated by more attributable remarks which are essentially similar.  While the dueling personality issue was a little bitchy, the dispute also sheds light on two different eras and philosophies of the magazine and is thus quite useful.  It's certainly more enlightening than the series of editorial hires in 2005-06, although I wouldn't suggest that those be dropped.  I've eliminated and/or toned down some of the promotional puffery about ostensible internet acclaim and user demographics and such; Onion.com is a more prominent online humor site, and you won't see the same kind of advertising on its Wikipedia page.  You made a shrewd catch in noticing that the company's primary venue, Cracked.com, was being underplayed in the article.  Your additions to the intro, and a full Cracked.com section at the end were excellent.208.120.226.72 19:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

OK this makes sense. I thought the stuff about Todd vs. Sarhan sounded less encyclopedic than the new hire stuff, but I see your point about it being an area of interest regarding philosophies and two different eras. Regarding the promotional puffery, I was using Collegehumor.com's page as a model, though the Onion is probably a better example since Collegehumor's page reads like a press release. Thanks for your help and feedback on this matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bishopsayles (talk • contribs) 19:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:365COV1 250.png
Image:365COV1 250.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Are the articles on cracked.com for real?
Are they?89.249.0.170 (talk) 05:49, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

yes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.244.122 (talk) 17:23, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Biased
Who else agrees this article is to biased against cracked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.161.36 (talk) 21:17, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I feel the same. Over time I'll cleanup some of the worst excesses. Nonamer98 (talk) 03:40, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

In its current incarnation I believe the tone of the article reflects statements made over the years by Cracked's editors and writers. This seems clear in the way the information is presented. It is also consistent with Cracked's current descriptions of itself (see above comments), e.g. an obviously satirical but entirely relevant article by assistant editor Dan O'Brien. Sainge.spin (talk) 04:21, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

It may be just me, but the entire entry seems to be slightly derogatory in tone. If I had no prior knowledge of Cracked, I'd think that it was a terrible and floundering brand. I don't feel that enough has been said about, in particular, its success as a website. Their articles average millions of views, and their series "Agents of Cracked" won a Streamy; yet, none of this was mentioned. As Cracked currently exists mainly as a website, I'd say that that's information that should be included. The history is interesting and all, but at this point, it's just that: history. 64.180.144.26 (talk) 08:55, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Article split
Given the very different nature of the two endeavors, I feel this article needs to be split into Cracked (magazine) and Cracked.com. Despite their connection, they are really separate entities and should not be squeezed together like this. Rhindle The Red (talk) 15:57, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Upfront disclaimer: I am primary author of an article about a Cracked.com columnist who was brought in early on by Jack O'Brien. I would resist the split because the history of the magazine has had considerable influence on the site and leads to a more complete picture/understanding of the launch and evolution of Cracked.com.  However, I can't offer any secondary sources to support this.Sainge.spin (talk) 04:04, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Support. They're both worthy of coverage, but so different in content that they really each deserve their own page.76.226.222.223 (talk) 03:37, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Cracked.com section edit
Cracked.com is owned by Demand Media. I think this info is quite relevant, especially given demand media's business model, and I intend to make the change if there are no objections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericfive (talk • contribs) 14:48, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree absolutely. Thank you for the addition of this info.Sainge.spin (talk) 04:05, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Relevant page history
Some old page history that is relevant to this article can be found at Crazy, Sick and Cracked. Graham 87 10:17, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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Lists of films and TV shows spoofed in Cracked?
Hi, all;

For Mad Magazine, there are Wikipedia pages listing all of the films and TV shows they parodied. Would it make sense to add matching pages for Cracked?

I've already started to draw up those lists, but since I haven't edited Wikipedia before, I thought I'd better float the idea to see whether it's appropriate. I realize this is about as trivial as it gets, and that there may not be sufficient interest to justify it.

Cekman76 (talk) 20:20, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cracked (magazine)


text:
Center for Functional Nanomaterials

The Center for Functional Nanomaterials (CFN) is a science laboratory specializing in nanoscale research. It is located at the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island, New York, United States.

Overview
The CFN provides capabilities for the fabrication and study of nanoscale materials, with an emphasis on atomic-level tailoring to achieve desired properties and functions. The CFN is a science-based user facility, simultaneously developing scientific programs while offering access to its capabilities and collaboration through an active user program.

The CFN is operated for and funded by the US Department of Energy's Office of Science.

Scientific themes
The science at the CFN is organized around these scientific themes:

 * Electronic Nanomaterials;
 * Interface Science and Catalysis;
 * Electron Microscopy;
 * Soft and Biological Materials;
 * Theory and Computation.

Scientific highlights within these themes can be found at the CFN Research Highlights Archive.

Research facilities
The CFN is housed in a building consisting of offices and laboratories, located next to the National Synchrotron Light Source (NSLS). The facility contains five groups of laboratories called Laboratory Facilities, a Theory and Computational Center, and a set of advanced endstations on beamlines at the NSLS.

The Laboratory Facilities include capabilities in nanopatterning, transmission electron microscopy, nanomaterials synthesis, ultrafast laser sources, and powerful probes to image atomic and molecular structure, together with clean rooms and other support instrumentation. Access is also offered to the Laser Electron Accelerator Facility (LEAF).

User program
The CFN is operated as a national user facility, accessible to researchers at universities, and industrial and national laboratories through peer-reviewed proposals. The user program provides access to laboratory facilities staffed by scientists and technical support personnel who are active in nanoscience research.

Modes of Access
General Users are researchers or research group that use the CFN's facilities for non-proprietary research, after the submission of a proposal and its positive evaluation by an external Proposal Review Panel (PRP).

Partner Users are General users who also enhance the facility capabilities or contribute to the Center operation. They typically help develop instrumentation in some manner, either by bringing external financial or intellectual capital into the development of the facility. These contributions must be made available to the General Users and, therefore, benefit the overall User Program as well as the facility. Partner Users are provided negotiated access to one or more capabilities over a period of several years.

Rapid Access: Users who feel that the timeliness of their research may be negatively affected by the length of the whole proposal-review process can request Rapid Access. Proposals submitted for rapid access are reviewed and approved by the CFN Director, technically assisted, if necessary, by pertinent group or facility leaders. Besides being feasible at the CFN and scientifically important, proposals being considered for Rapid Access must include a justification of the time-sensitive nature of the project.

Proposal submission and review process
Prior to submitting a proposal, prospective users are encouraged to identify the appropriate CFN scientists and capabilities needed for their research project, and contact the CFN staff to confirm feasibility. Although not required, early discussion with CFN scientist(s) can help the prospective user understand the capabilities available, feasibility, safety & training issues, and level of effort required. There are three work cycles per year: January–April, May–August, and September–December.

All user proposals undergo a feasibility/safety review by CFN staff. The prospective user is advised of any concerns/issues and offered the opportunity to revise the proposal, if appropriate, to resolve those issues/concerns. After the initial review, the proposals are sent to an external Proposal Review Panels (PRP). Each proposal is assigned to the most relevant panel, reviewed and scored by at least three panel members. Rapid access proposals are reviewed by the CFN Director. The PRP scores and comments are used by the Facility Leaders or designees to prioritize access to CFN. Prospective users are notified of the decision (accept/decline) and given the feedback comments from the PRP.

Once the proposal has been accepted, a User Agreement is executed (if none is in place). The prospective user schedules the facility time with the Facility Leader or designee, and conducts work. The user is expected to publish the results in the peer-reviewed literature. At the conclusion of the project, the user completes an End-of-Experiment Survey and reports related publications/presentations to the CFN. If the user needs to continue his project after the proposal expires in two years, he/she is required to submit a final project report before the new proposal is accepted.

CFN users may conduct either non-proprietary (pre-competitive research to be published) or proprietary research. Prospective users must designate if any/all of their user proposal involves proprietary information and if any of the user project, if accepted, would be proprietary work. For proprietary work at the CFN, full-cost recovery is required and a proprietary research agreement (.pdf) must be in place prior to starting work. BNL makes efforts to secure appropriate intellectual property control so that proprietary-research users can exploit their experimental results.

Upon acceptance of a user proposal for non-proprietary research, the user's institution is required to execute a nonproprietary user agreement. In addition to defining the terms & conditions for intellectual property created during the user project, the agreement confirms that the user will publish the results in the open technical literature in return for no-fee access to the CFN.

title: Center for Functional Nanomaterials


text:
User:Sam Spade/Detective agency

Welcome to the Sam Spade detective agency

Our goal is to provide top-notch investigative service to our clients, promote justice and discourage corruption, and to combine our efforts as effectively as possible. We collect data regarding dubious persons and circumstances, and put them to good use at the appropriate time and place. Because of that I advise against becoming a public member. Those wishing public membership despite the copious hassles involved may contact me on the talk page.

Those wishing to remain confidential may:

 * contact me by email..

Emails are welcome.

Members
The requirement of membership is desire and willingness to coordinate efforts in the achievement of common goals. These goals range from promotion of NPOV and Factual Accuracy, warning and prosecuting problem users and admins, and assisting and protecting fellow detectives, lay users and anons.

Public members

 * User:TDC

Cberlet

 * User:Sam_Spade/To_do_list_1

Resolved arbitration cases

 * Requests for arbitration/Nobs01 and others
 * Mixed Sam Spade
 * Requests for arbitration/WHEELER
 * Mixed Sam Spade
 * Requests for arbitration/Charles Darwin-Lincoln dispute
 * Success Sam Spade
 * Requests for arbitration/172
 * Success Sam Spade
 * Requests for arbitration/IZAK
 * Success Sam Spade
 * Requests for arbitration/Onefortyone
 * Success Sam Spade
 * Requests for arbitration/Deeceevoice
 * Success Sam Spade

VFD

 * Votes for deletion/Sam Spade/Detective agency
 * Concluded as a keep.

title: User:Sam Spade/Detective agency