text:
William Sio

Aupito Tofae Su'a William Sio (born 1960) is a politician who became a member of the New Zealand House of Representatives on 1 April 2008 for the Labour Party as a list MP. From the November to 2023, he represented the Māngere electorate.

Personal life
Sio is a Samoan who was born in Samoa and came to New Zealand in 1969. He has the matai (chieftain title) of Aupito from the Matatufu village of the Lotofaga district on the island of Upolu. He belongs to the extended family called Aiga Sa Aupito, which he now heads, as his father, Aupito Pupu Sio, bestowed the title in a 'fa'aui le ula' from father to son. Sio is a Mormon and has served as one of their bishops. He is married with a family of adult and young children.

While growing up in New Zealand during the 1970s, Sio and his family experienced a police dawn raid, which disproportionately targeted members of the Pasifika communities. Sio recalled that he was personally traumatised by the raid and that his father, who had recently bought the house, was helpless.

Local politics
Sio served as a Manukau City Councillor, representing the Ōtara ward from 2001. Sir Barry Curtis, the Mayor of Manukau City, selected Sio as chair of the planning committee in November 2004. In October 2007, the newly elected Mayor of Manukau City, Len Brown, appointed Sio deputy mayor, making him the first Pasifika New Zealander to hold the position in Manukau City.

Labour candidate, 2005–2008
In the 2005 parliamentary election Sio was ranked 47th on the Labour party list and failed to be elected by two places. However Labour Party list MP Dianne Yates left the Parliament on 29 March 2008, and Sio was declared elected in her place (the person above him on the list, Louisa Wall, had already been declared elected to replace Ann Hartley).

Prior to entering Parliament, Sio was a representative on Labour's national council as Pacific Islands Vice-President.

In opposition, 2008–2017
In the 2008 general election Sio won the Māngere electorate, defeating the incumbent independent (and former Labour) MP Taito Phillip Field by 7,126 votes. In the and s, Sio's majority was approximately 15,000 votes.

In 2013, Sio voted against the Marriage Amendment Bill, which aimed to permit same sex marriage in New Zealand, with fellow Labour MPs Rino Tirikatene, Ross Robertson and Damien O'Connor, alongside New Zealand First, Brendan Horan (former New Zealand First MP), and 32 National MPs. The Bill passed, becoming law.

In government, 2017–2023
Sio was re-elected during the 2017 general election by a margin of 14,597 votes, defeating National Party candidate Agnes Loheni. Following the formation of Labour-led coalition government with New Zealand First and the Greens, Sio was appointed as a Minister outside Cabinet by the Labour Party caucus. On 26 October 2017, Sio was appointed Minister for Pacific Peoples, Associate Minister for Courts, and Associate Minister of Justice.

During the 2020 general election, Sio was re-elected in Māngere by a margin of 19,396 votes, defeating National's candidate Loheni.

In early November, Sio became Minister for Courts, while retaining his Pacific Peoples ministerial portfolio. He also retained his associate justice portfolio while picking up the associate foreign affairs, education (Pacific Peoples), and health (Pacific Peoples) portfolios.

After Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern confirmed that the New Zealand Government would apologise for the Dawn Raids of the 1970s and early 1980s, Sio gave an emotional testimony of his family's experiences with a dawn raid, stating that the apology restored mana for the victims of these raids.

In mid-December 2022, Sio announced that he would not be contesting the 2023 New Zealand general election and would step down at the end of the 2020–2023 term. He attributed his resignation decision to his family and matai (chiefly) responsibilities, stating that his job as a Member of Parliament was "all-consuming and relentless." On 10 February 2023, Sio was granted retention of the title "The Honourable" for life, in recognition of his term as a member of the Executive Council.

Political views
Sio's stance against the Marriage Amendment Act, which allowed same-sex couple to marry, was not popular among his Labour colleagues. He justified his stance based the beliefs of many Pacific Islanders whom he represents.

By 2019 Sio's views on LGBT issues had progressed. He was a supporter of Pasifika Pink Shirt Day 2019 for young people who identify as part of LGBT communities.

In Sio's valedictory statement to New Zealand Parliament on 22 August 2023 he said it is OK to be different. He encouraged Pacific young people to be proud of who they are, that it is OK to be a member of the rainbow community, and that it is OK to use non-binary pronouns.

title: William Sio


text:
User talk:Igny

Arbitration requests for amendment
Hello, I have mentioned you in a requests for amendment at Arbitration, you can find the discussion here. Thank you. Steven Zhang The clock is ticking....  05:47, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Request for participation
Dear Igny: Hello. This is just to let you know that you've been mentioned in the following request at the Mediation Cabal, which is a Wikipedia dispute resolution initiative that resolves disputes by informal mediation.

The request can be found at Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor.

Just so you know, it is entirely your choice whether or not you participate. If you wish to do so, and we'll see what we can do about getting this sorted out. At MedCab we aim to help all involved parties reach a solution and hope you will join in this effort.

If you have any questions relating to this or any other issue needing mediation, you can ask on the case talk page, the MedCab talk page, or you can ask the mediator, Steven Zhang, at their talk page. MedcabBot (talk) 14:04, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Modification of topic ban
Hi Igny, your DIGWUREN topic ban has been amended to allow you to participate in the above mediation case. The conditions of the modification are set out here. Please let me know if you have any questions. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Holodomor mediation spokespersons
Hello Igny, this is Mr. Stradivarius from the Holodomor Medcab mediation. The mediation has been going slowly recently, and as you might have seen from the mediation page, we have been talking about appointing spokespersons for each other to get things moving along. The other mediators and I have decided that it's best to impose a deadline for deciding spokespersons, otherwise it really doesn't look like this mediation is going to progress. So, we would like you to authorize another editor who you trust to be a spokesperson for your viewpoint, by 12am, December 1st, 2011 (UTC). If you do not decide a spokesperson by this time, then we will proceed with the mediation even if you provide no input. You can find more details on our ideas for spokespersons and on what has been discussed so far at the spokespersons section on the mediation page. Thank you again for your cooperation. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 11:02, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Also, here's User:Steven Zhang's outline of how the spokesperson system will work, for your reference: "Basically how this works, two, three or four editors are appointed by the rest of the editors as spokespersons for their collective viewpoints. This spokesperson should be the only one who presents the views of the collective people he/she represents. I'm going to ask each of you to consider nominating a spokesperson, or who you would like to represent your viewpoints, and if you do not wish to do this, to provide an explanation and a commitment to remain active throughout the mediation case. We're still on the first issue and need to crank things up a gear." So please leave your username and who you would like to nominate as your spokesperson here; or if you do not wish to nominate a spokesperson, please leave a commitment that you will remain active throughout the rest of the Holodomor mediation. Thanks again. —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 12:07, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

 * This is a note to let you know that the deadline for deciding spokespersons has passed, and that we will be progressing with the mediation without your input. You are, of course, free to comment or to nominate a spokesperson at any time. Best —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 11:11, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update
Dear : Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 12:18, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Holodomor mediation issue two
Hi Igny, this is a boilerplate message to let you know that we have moved on to issue two of the Holodomor mediation, victim estimates. At the moment we are accepting statements from all participants, so if you want to make your position on this issue known, then now would be a very good time to contribute. Your statement should be no longer than 200 words, and should include both your opinion on the issue and what you hope will be addressed in the mediation. We will be accepting statements until 00:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC), or until we have statements from all spokespersons. Please note, however, that even if you miss this deadline you are free to contribute to the mediation at any time. You can find the appropriate section on the mediation page here. All the best —  Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 06:47, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update
Dear : Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 06:16, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update
Dear : Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 15:12, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update
Dear : Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/02 October 2011/Holodomor

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Steven Zhang, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 12:42, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Integration by parts
Hi - thanks for your visualisation for this article - if its ok I added it to the article. Thank you and well done! =) F = q(E+v×B) ⇄ ∑ici 12:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Warning
Please note that edit warring does not require a 3RR "bright line infraction". Please self-revert your reinsertion of the "pov tag" ay yhe Baltic occupation article. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:35, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Igny, please, do not revert Estlandia's revert. In this situation one must stay cool.--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:27, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You would think that Miacek would know better than do WP:NINJA reverts for his buddies... (Igny (talk) 23:13, 17 June 2012 (UTC))
 * Miacek? Who is Miacek?--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * User:Miacek was one of WP:EEML. At that time it was highly surprising because he was known for his integrity in many WP aspects. That is also why I found it rather surprising for him to get involved here... (Igny (talk) 00:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC))
 * Aha, I thought he was some new uninvolved user. I suggest you to behave as cautious and as cool as possible. In my opinion, jumping into this swamp right after the end of your topic ban was a mistake. BTW, do you have any idea about User:UUNC? If it was you who asked him to comment, it would be correct to explain that openly. We must be as honest as possible.--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:20, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I could not care less about my topic ban. It actually ended two months ago which my opponents clearly do not realize in their ad hominem arguments and personal attacks. I was hoping to stay away from this swamp for one full year, but I could not pass Martin's unilateral decision to rename Template:Occupation and annexation of the Baltic states sidebar. I do not know much about UUNC. I suspect he is a WP:SOCK, but I have no clear idea who was behind him. There were a multitude of pro-Russian editors banned from EE (including, to my surprise, Russiavia) UUNC could be any one of them. It was also possible that it was merely a bait, a provocation for me from my oponents.(Igny (talk) 00:31, 18 June 2012 (UTC))
 * I know noone who expressed interest to this area and who was recently banned. AFAIK, Russavia didn't edit the article belonging to that family.--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:36, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * If the POV tag will be removed again, do not try to restore it, please. Let's wait.--Paul Siebert (talk) 02:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Igny, 'editors' instead of 'opponents', lest someone think you are on the wp:battleground. Darkstar1st (talk) 02:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

There is a report on you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring--Toddy1 (talk) 06:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Usually joining an edit war is not part of the procedure to report an edit war. Just so you know... (Igny (talk) 09:25, 19 June 2012 (UTC))

AE report
You are subject of an AE report here. --Nug (talk) 10:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

June 2012
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for your disruption caused by edit warring and violation of the three-revert rule at Baltic states. During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text below this notice, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. -- DQ  (ʞlɐʇ)  15:51, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Notice of arbitration enforcement
As the result of an arbitration enforcement discussion, you are notified that you are topic banned indefinitely from the subject of Eastern Europe, broadly construed. This ban includes, but is not limited to, discussion of the subject on any page on Wikipedia, except to file an appeal to your sanction in the proper venue. You may appeal the sanction to the imposing administrator, the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, or the arbitration committee, either on the basis of error or to appeal for the sanction to be lifted after a period of good behavior. While the ban is in force, any edit in defiance of the ban will lead to a block from editing. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:18, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Tsarist_autocracy
Hi Igny,

I noticed you contributed to some discussions on this talkpage in 2009. Would you care to comment on the issues I have raised now? Just to get a broader sense of what I can achieve here at Wikipedia. Thanks! 2001:1C02:1907:9500:9CF9:5773:9F59:2B43 (talk) 14:51, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Igny


text:
Cambric

Cambric or batiste is a fine dense cloth. It is a lightweight plain-weave fabric, originally from the commune of Cambrai (in present-day northern France), woven greige (neither bleached nor dyed), then bleached, piece-dyed, and often glazed or calendered. Initially it was made of linen; from the 18th and 19th centuries the term came to apply to cotton fabrics as well.

Chambray is a similar fabric, with a coloured (often blue or grey) warp and white filling; the name "chambray" replaced "cambric" in the  United States in the early 19th century.

Cambric is used as fabric for linens, shirts, handkerchiefs, ruffs, lace, and in cutwork and other needlework. Dyed black, it is also commonly used as the dustcover on the underside of upholstered furniture.

Description
Cambric is a finely woven cloth with a plain weave and a smooth surface appearance, the result of the calendering process. It may be made of linen or cotton. The fabric may be dyed any of many colours.

Batiste is a kind of cambric; it is "of similar texture, but differently finished, and made of cotton as well as of linen". Batiste also may be dyed or printed. Batiste is the French word for cambric, and some sources consider them to be the same, but in English, they are two distinct fabrics.

Chambray, though the same type of fabric as cambric, has a coloured warp and a white weft, though it may be "made from any colour as you may wish, in the warp, and also in the filling; only have them differ from each other."

Chambray differs from denim in that "chambray's warp and weft threads will alternate one over the other, while denim’s warp thread will go over two threads in the weft before going under one." As a result, the colour of chambray cloth is similar front and back, while the reverse side of denim is lighter in colour.

History

Cambric was originally a kind of fine, white, plain-weave linen cloth made at or near Cambrai. The word comes from Kameryk or Kamerijk, the Flemish name of Cambrai, which became part of France in 1677. The word is attested since 1530. It is a synonym of the French word batiste, itself attested since 1590. Batiste itself comes from the Picard batiche, attested since 1401 and derived from the old French battre for bowing wool. The modern form batiste, or baptiste, comes from a popular merge with the surname Baptiste, pronounced Batisse, as indicated by the use of the expressions thoile batiche (1499) and toile de baptiste (1536) for the same fabric. The alleged invention of the fabric, around 1300, by a weaver called Baptiste or Jean-Baptiste Cambray or Chambray, from the village of Castaing in the peerage of Marcoing, near Cambrai, has no historic ground. Cambric was a finer quality and more expensive than lawn (from the French laune, initially a plain-weave linen fabric from the city of Laon in France ). Denoting a geographic origin from the city of Cambrai or its surroundings (Cambresis in French), cambric is an exact equivalent of the French cambrésine, a very fine, almost sheer white linen plain-weave fabric, to be distinguished from cambrasine, a fabric comparable to the French lawn despite its foreign origin.

Cambric is also similar to chambray from a French regional variant of "Cambrai", a name which "also comes from Cambrai, the French city, where the material was originally made of linen yarn". Chambray (also spelled "chambrai") appears in North American English in the early 19th century. Though the term generally refers to a cotton plain weave with a coloured warp and a white weft, close to gingham, "silk chambray" seems to have coexisted. Chambray was often produced during this period by the same weavers producing gingham.

White linen cambric or batiste from Cambrai, noted for its weight and lustre, was "preferred for ecclesiastical wear, fine shirts, underwear, shirt frills, cravats, collars and cuffs, handkerchiefs, and infant wear". Technical use sometime introduced a difference between cambric and batiste, the latter being of a lighter weight and a finer thread count.

In the 18th century, after the prohibition of imports into England of French cambrics, with the development of the import of Indian cotton fabrics, similar cotton fabrics, such as nainsook, from the Hindi nainsukh ("eyes' delight"), became popular. These fabrics, initially called Scotch cambrics to distinguish them from the original French cambrics, came to be referred to as cotton cambrics or batistes. Some authors increased the confusion with the assumption the word batiste could come from the Indian fabric bastas.

In the 19th century, the terms cambric and batiste gradually lost their association with linen, implying only different kinds of fine plain-weave fabrics with a glossy finish. In 1907, a fine cotton batiste had 100 ends per inch in the finished fabric, while a cheap-grade, less than 60. At the same time, with development of an interest in coloured shirts, cambric was also woven in colours, such as the pink fabric used by Charvet for a corsage, reducing the difference between cambric and chambray. Moreover, the development and rationalization of mechanical weaving led to the replacement, for chambray, of coloured warp and white weft by the opposite, white warp and coloured weft, which allowed for longer warps.

title: Cambric


text:
Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems

Why is this not appearing on the main page?

 * Draft:Qefweqf ([ history] · [ last edit] · rewrite) from . I wasn't able to find their license. Both articles are clearly promotional. I see I've broken the syntax somehow, sorry. Why isn't there a template? Doug Weller  talk 09:58, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Also  Doug Weller  talk 10:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Are large quotes from studies fair use?
https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Bernese_Mountain_Dog&oldid=&action=search&use_engine=1&use_links=1&turnitin=0 Earwig just for ease of viewing. Do these particular quotes qualify as fair use or lean into copyright concerns? I'm unsure but leaning towards them being problematic. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:23, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

 * No this far beyond OK and I would reject this anywhere it showed up—AfC, NPP, DYK etc. (t · c)  buidhe  23:31, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The content has been removed, should I request revdel? Traumnovelle (talk) 23:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I would. (t · c)  buidhe  23:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Copying an entire sentence from a source without attribution or quotation marks
Is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Software&oldid=prev&diff=1230471608 ok? I thought the limit was more like 3 words before you have to use quotation marks. (t · c)  buidhe  23:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

How much can an article match a public domain source?
I came across the article Autobiographic Sketches tonight, and noticed that the language seemed a bit unusual/formal ("reminiscent articles"), which made me suspect potential machine translation or copyright violation.

The sole reference on the article is the entry on the book from the 1920 Encyclopedia Americana, which is in the public domain. If you look at the entry in wikisource (linked from the article), you can see that large chunks of it are repeated verbatim in the article (and have been since the very first version of the article). I am aware that we can "incorporate text" from a public domain source, but I hadn't seen an article before that hews so closely to the source. It seems like this is probably okay with the acknowledgement, but I do not have much experience with the public domain, so I figured I'd check here to see if this is okay or if the content needs to be changed.

Thanks! Cleancutkid (talk) 06:43, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

 * @CleancutkidPretty much as much as you like, as long as its attributed! In the early days of Wikipedia, it was really common for people to create articles by copying from old, out of copyright editions of various encyclopedias. This has fallen out of fashion as of late, since a lot of public domain text isn't suitable for inclusion to Wikipedia on non-copyright grounds. (Typically it presents original research in Wikivoice, doesn't maintain neutrality, or is simply too outdated to be of any use. If dealing with a non-European/American topic, sometimes they're overtly racist). But if something is public domain, that means it cannot be protected by copyright laws anymore and can freely be uploaded to Wikisource, Commons, or even Wikipedia. I hope that's an okay answer? GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 07:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I still do this frequently. I write a lot of articles about 19th-century judicial figures, and there are often contemporaneous public domain biographies of these persons that contain material that requires only a little language tweaking to fit into our modern encyclopedia. Our purpose here is to provide information to our readers, not to engage in an academic exercise in original thinking. BD2412  T 14:49, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @GreenLipstickLesbian@BD2412 Thanks, this was quite helpful! I knew that whole public domain sources can be uploaded, but I wasn't 100% sure about articles which are mostly a source but also partially original. Cleancutkid (talk) 15:17, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Adapting table of example words
Hello! I'm working on Gwoyeu Romatzyh, and a source I'm working from already has just what I felt I needed to add: a very basic table listing a handful of words and how they appear when written using different systems. I know information itself is not copyrightable, and there's not a lot of "work" here other than picking representative examples (the table uses 3 × 4 = 12 examples total), but I still figured I'd ask whether it's alright to use the same examples adapted to a table in the article? Cited, it goes without saying. Remsense 诉  02:46, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems


text:
Talk:L

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Lanatroche.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Comment from 2005
I vote to change the phrase (first paragraph under Usage) "and is also a factor making L difficult to pronounce users of languages such as Japanese or Chinese that either lack or have different values for L" to ... something else. We might be geeks, but Japanese is *not* a computer program. :) Any objections for "speaker" instead? (I just want to make sure it's general enough to cover what "users" is supposed to. "Speakers and writers" may be more general, but I think it has more to do with speaking, since it's talking about difficulty in pronouncing a letter/sound.) --RMo 21:20, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

History
Most other letters mention what the Egyptian hieroglyph meant. 75.210.6.171 (talk) 04:24, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Stereochemistry
"In stereochemistry, S (sinister) signifies an anti-clockwise arrangement..." Yes, fine, but what does it have to do with L?   — J I P | Talk 10:45, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Back in the day l was not only a letter but a symbol of peace. In church thay would say l be with you hippies would say l out and after wars people would hang ls on their doors —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.76.39 (talk) 23:12, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Drug
Is L a drug or something in nelly's ride wit me he says smoke a l in the back... but they bleep out 'L' in MTv and [V] and everything, why?
 * Oh I'm sick of this. No-one answers my questions anymore, please someone answer.
 * Anyone?

I don't know man.Cameron Nedland 23:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

 * i mean that would need it's own article if it were notable. and article don't need mention everything which can be called by the same name, Rguyr (talk) 20:24, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

L is a term for the rolled up cigar that is used to smoke marijuana.

also called a blunt! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.24.118.169 (talk) 23:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Death note
I was looking for something on the character L from Death note
 * Fixed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bobthesmiley (talk • contribs) 03:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

 * here's the article Rguyr (talk) 20:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Can we discuss |_ as similar to L
This is a similarity.--199.169.208.132 (talk) 06:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Why? Msclockwatcher (talk) 20:26, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Avogadro
Shouldnt this page make mention of Avogadro's constant, as in chemistry? (L = 6.22 x 10^23) Aska 21:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Physics
There is vandalism under physics that needs to be fixedJMo89 03:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)JMo89 3/25/07

Roman numeral
L = 50 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.9.16.2 (talk) 12:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Question; back and walk
Question; does back actually rhyme with walk? I noticed this in the article - I appreciate that my accent isn't everybody's, but I can't actually think of how that would happen - can someone please correct me? ~Cortal UX Talk? 02:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The article doesn't say that back rhymes with walk—in fact, it says just the opposite, that the L in "walk" is an indicator that it does not rhyme with "back". (Quote from the article: "[the L's] presence modifies other letters' sounds, i.e. 'wak' [that is, "walk" without the L] might be more likely to be pronounced such that it would rhyme with 'back'") Smeazel (talk) 08:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

 * The article currently claims that the L in "walk" is silent. I don't think so; citation from linguists that it's completely silent, in all English accents? It isn't under careful pronunciation as far as I can tell. Allens (talk | contribs) 05:28, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Cambridge British English Dictionary, Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary, Oxford Dictionary, Wiktionary show all pronunciations of "walk" without [l]. —Coroboy (talk) 18:58, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Contested deletion
This article should not be speedy deleted as having no substantive content, because... REALLY? DELETING 'L'? --71.136.46.48 (talk) 21:33, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been tagged for speedy deletion. —Bruce1eetalk 04:54, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

in english l is l — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.160.82 (talk) 12:05, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I hate the deleters (sort of): they first should opt for expansion / adding sources, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonDeDanser (talk • contribs) 12:15, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Examples of Letter L as Pictograph: Line, Light, Length
MODERATOR: "Lagoon, lantern, and less"? These are the examples given in the introduction of the letter L?! Poor examples. How often does someone use lagoon in their daily speech? Lantern? Maybe less. Line, light, and length are better examples and use l as a pictograph in most fonts: l is a line, L is two lines that meet (vertical & horizontal), L & l has a length to these lines, light travels in a line. 2601:580:104:F1C:451C:A3F8:E2CE:F5BD (talk) 21:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2020
IT IS ALSO A LETTER OF THE ENGLISH ALPHABET, NOT JUST LATIN. IT IS USED 5.4893% AND 27.98 86.24.169.150 (talk) 12:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The article already mentions that. – Thjarkur (talk) 12:33, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

vowel letter's sound
Why not just vowel? --Backinstadiums (talk) 15:24, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ (CC) Tb hotch ™ 18:03, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2022
litre is spelt wrong- you spelt it liter and not litre 14sirs (talk) 09:41, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: the first time "liter" is mentioned is in the context of japan, which while it doesn't primarily use either variant of english, it primarily uses american english spelling (where british litre is spelled liter instead). unless the rest of the article uses british spellings, I don't see a need for it to be changed. melecie   t  - 09:59, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, when I first saw the page it innately annoyed me so that is the main reason I asked for it to be changed 14sirs (talk) 17:53, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2022
can I edit plz??? Grehdasjogybuhajldsgybjladfkzxogyuadf, (talk) 20:45, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Full-protection-shackle-no-text.svg Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:53, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Use of special symbol ℓ for litre/liter
Article says: ''However, the International System of Units recommends using Unicode symbols U+006C l LOWERCASE L or U+004C L UPPERCASE L for the liter. '' There is a reference given to Unicode.org. However, Unicode.org just states the same assertion; Unicode.org is not an authoritative source for SI recommendations or policy. Does anyone know of an actual source from SI where this is allegedly documented? Certainly since no standardised keyboard on Earth has a dedicated key for ℓ it seems most persons will just type milliliters as mL, for instance, instead of mℓ but that’s hardly the same thing as SI recommending something. Dudshan (talk) 21:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The text was false in multiple ways and not worth spending any more time discussing as it stood. I have found the relevant SI document, so the article now reads:
 * Is that any clearer? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC) Revised a little. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:52, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is that any clearer? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC) Revised a little. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:52, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

"L+Ratio" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L%2BRatio&redirect=no L+Ratio] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. -- Tamzin  [cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 04:55, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2024
Change an A for an E Quokka99 (talk) 07:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC) Editing the page.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 07:34, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

it seem like a lot of topics need to be deleted or archived
for example

drug

death note

Can we discuss |_ as similar to L Rguyr (talk) 20:30, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Per Help:Archiving a talk page, it is customary to periodically archive old discussions on a talk page when that page becomes too large. This talk page is still of reasonable size, and some readers or editors may find even older discussions useful.|_ is documented along with similar substitutions in Leet.  Certes (talk) 21:09, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:L


text:
User:Zarano

Zarano or Lord Zarano as he is sometimes known, though neither of these are his real name, is very odd.

He was born in April 1992 He now lives near Weston-super-Mare, England and attends A-levels at City of Bristol College

Wikipedia
He adds accurate stub messages and links to pages that he thinks need them, but is also known to add references to pages. Sometimes he will even create pages where he thinks necessary.

title: User:Zarano


text:
User:Viya~enwiki

This account is a sock puppet for use on controversial articles.

It will not be abused by (eg) voting twice, or other ways.

title: User:Viya~enwiki


text:
Problem finding

Problem finding means problem discovery. It is part of the larger problem process that includes problem shaping and problem solving. Problem finding requires intellectual vision and insight into what is missing. Problem finding plays a major role in application of creativity.

Different terms have been used for problem finding in literature including problem discovery, problem formulation, problem identification, problem construction, and problem posing. It has been studied in many fields. Mathematics and science prefer to the term problem posing.

Processes in problem finding
Basadur distinguished problem discovery and problem formulation; then later problem generation and problem conceptualization. Runco and Chand distinguish problem identification and problem definition.

Scholars distinguish between well-defined and ill-defined problems. Briggs and Reinig defined a well-defined solution in terms of space solution space. Pretz, Naples, and Sternberg defined a well-defined problem as one for which the parts of the solution are closely related or clearly based on the information given. Problem finding applies to ill-defined problems.

Abdulla-Alabbasi and Cramond reviewing the literature on problem finding conceptualize five processes of decreasing of ill-definedness and distinguish ideative and evaluative processes. The processes are discovery, formulation, construction, identification and definition. Problem discovery is an unconscious process which depends upon knowledge whereby an idea enters one's conscious awareness, problem formulation is the discovery of a goal; problem construction involves modifying a known problem or goal to another one; problem identification represents a problem that exists in reality but needs to be discovered (such as an unknown virus causing illness in patients); problem definition involves modifying a problem but in a mostly evaluative rather than ideative way.

title: Problem finding


text:
Frankie Crosetti

Frank Peter Joseph Crosetti (October 4, 1910 – February 11, 2002) was an American baseball shortstop. Nicknamed "the Crow", he spent his entire seventeen-year Major League Baseball playing career with the New York Yankees before becoming a coach with the franchise for an additional twenty seasons. As a player and third base coach for the Yankees, Crosetti was part of seventeen World Championship teams and 23 World Series participants overall (1932–1964), the most of any individual.

Early years
Crosetti was born in San Francisco, California, and grew up in North Beach, which was something of a hotbed of Italian-American talent on the baseball field during the 1920s and 1930s (Tony Lazzeri, Charlie Silvera and the three DiMaggio brothers also hail from the same neighborhood). Before joining the Yankees, Crosetti played four seasons with the San Francisco Seals of the Pacific Coast League.

New York Yankees
Crosetti joined the Yankees in 1932, and batted .241 with five home runs and 57 runs batted in (RBI) in 116 games while batting at the bottom of the Yankees' batting order. He was part of a World Series championship his first year in the big leagues as the Yankees completed a four-game sweep of the Chicago Cubs in the 1932 World Series two days shy of Crosetti's 22nd birthday.

The finest year of Crosetti's career came in 1936, when he played in 151 games and batted .288 with 15 home runs, 78 RBI, and 137 runs scored, all career highs. Batting lead-off, he was named an American League All-Star for the first time in his career, and reached the World Series for the second time. Crosetti batted .269 in the Yankees' six-game victory over the New York Giants in the 1936 World Series, and drove in the winning run in the Yankees' 2–1 victory in Game 3. The 1936 season was the first of a string of four World Series titles for Crosetti and the Yankees.

After a poor 1940 season, he lost his starting shortstop job to Phil Rizzuto in 1941. He was given back the starting shortstop job when Rizzuto joined the Navy for battle in World War II; however, he became a reserve once again when Rizzuto rejoined the club in 1946. Crosetti then became a player/coach for the club through the 1948 season.

Career stats
In 29 World Series games, Crosetti batted .174 with one home run, 11 RBI, and 16 runs scored. His only World Series home run was a two-run shot off Dizzy Dean in Game 2 of the 1938 World Series that gave the Yankees a 4–3 lead over the Cubs. Perhaps Crosetti's second most memorable moment in postseason play occurred in Game 3 of the 1942 World Series when he shoved umpire Bill Summers, an act for which he received a $250 fine from Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis and was suspended the first 30 games of the 1943 season.

Crosetti led the American League in plate appearances twice (1938 and 1939), stolen bases once (1938), strikeouts twice (1937 and 1938) and in being hit by pitches eight times (1934, 1936–40, 1942 and 1945). He was known as the weak link in the Yankees batting order, but he was also known as a slick fielder and for his ability to pull off the hidden ball trick. Crosetti earned eight World Series rings as a player, and was a two-time All-Star (1936 and 1939).

Coaching career
Crosetti became third base coach with the Yankees in 1947 and was part of an additional nine World Series championships as a coach with the franchise after he retired as a player following the 1948 season. He was said to be the "perfect coach", because he had no ambition whatsoever to manage, turning down numerous offers over the years to do so. After 37 years, longing to be closer to his family in Northern California, he left the franchise to join the expansion Seattle Pilots in 1969. He moved to the Minnesota Twins from 1970 to 1971, after the Pilots (who became the Milwaukee Brewers) didn't renew his contract.

It has been said of Crosetti that he has waved home 16,000 runners in 25 years in the third-base coaching box.

Death
Crosetti died in 2002 at age 91 from complications of a fall in Stockton, California and was entombed at Holy Cross Cemetery in Colma. He was survived by his wife of 63 years, Norma, his son, John, and his daughter, Ellen. He was the last surviving member of the 1932, 1936, 1937, and 1939 World Champion New York Yankees.

title: Frankie Crosetti


text:
Talk:2007 Irish general election

Premature
This article is premature - it has the wrong name because nobody knows when the election will be, and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball --Henrygb 21:23, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

See US presidential election thread 2008, neutral speculation is fine, ie expected candidates etc...

Latest date for election
I've changed the reference to the latest possible date for the election. The five year period is calculated not from the date of the previous general election (17 May 2002) but from the date of the first meeting of the 29th Dáil (6 June 2002). This means that the Dáil must be dissolved within five years from that date: see Constitution of Ireland Art 16.5 and Electoral Act, 1992 s 33. The general election must then take place not later than thirty days after the date of dissolution: Art 16.3.2° and Electoral Act, 1992 s 96(1)(a). --Todowd 15:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the reference about the constitution allows the election to be held no later than 2009. This is not true. Article 16.5 of Bunreacht na hÉireann allows the Dáil to sit for up to seven years and crucially it adds; or a shorter period that may be fixed by law. This period has been fixed at five years so legally and constitutionally the election must take place by July 2007. Only if no law had been passed for a shorter limit would the constitutional limit of seven years apply. I have mentioned this in a footnote. Snappy56 19:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

BTW, isn't it de facto next to impossible that this will not take place in 2007? I don't know of the usual intervalls between calling an election and actually holding it in Ireland, but it's only two more months until 2007... Can we move this to Irish general election, 2007 already? Just wondering. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 20:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've read so many articles lately which assume that the election will be in May 07 to consider this move safe. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 18:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * A week is a long time in politics (the coalition could collapse tomorrow and we'd have an early election). So I've changed it back, and added Lenihan's comments as a suggested date. Also as far as I can see it is still possible for the election to take place in 2006 (there appears to be no constitutional minimum time allowed between the dissolution of the Dáil and an election, just a maximum time) so I propose to move it back. Demiurge 18:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Mh. I'd prefer to put some research into whether there's really no minimum time allotted, and then to consider how likely it is that there will be elections this year -- if we should come to the conclusion that it's still realistically possible to have elections in 2006, this article should be at Next Irish general election, not the former title, to make it have the same title as the other elections with indeterminate dates. D'accord? — Nightst a  llion  (?) 19:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so the Electoral Act 1963 gives this sequence of events once the Dáil is dissolved (I can't find any section in any later Electoral Act that amends this): So I make it 9 days for nominations, then 7 days for campaigning (not counting Sundays/bank holidays under ), then the election. So roughly 3 weeks after the Dáil is dissolved is the earliest an election can be held. (This "three weeks" figure is my original research so it probably shouldn't go in the article.) Demiurge 20:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * : "Where the Dáil is dissolved, the Clerk of Dáil Éireann shall, immediately upon the issue of the Proclamation dissolving the Dáil, issue a writ to each returning officer for a constituency directing him to cause an election to be held of the full number of members of the Dáil to serve in the Dáil for that constituency."
 * "the last day for receiving nominations shall be the last day of the period which consists of the nine days (disregarding any excluded day) next following the day on which the writ or writs for the election is or are issued."
 * "A poll at a Dáil election...shall be taken on such day as shall be appointed by the Minister by order, being a day during the period which consists of the nine days...next following the period which consists of the seven days...following the last day for receiving nominations"
 * Fair enough; still, I'll move it to next Irish general election to standardise it with other articles of the same type. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 21:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Since the article puts the date firmly in 2007 now and since it's impossible to hold the election between now and 31 December, I've moved it again. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 21:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Naming convention
I would like to resurrect my previous idea to change the current naming convention for elections. The current convention is:

 * Use the format "Demonym type election, date", for example "Canadian federal election, 1867"...  (WP:NAME}

I propose this is changed to allow two alternatives, as follows:

 * Use either this form: political division type election, date, or this form: political division election of date. For example, Canadian federal election, 1867 or Canadian federal election of 1867. Where an article has been created using one form, do not move the article to the other form.

This new option would make linking more natural and make the article names more encyclopedic.

Please comment on this proposal at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions

Thanks AndrewRT(Talk) 23:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Dáil membership changes
Is there a restriction on Dual mandates preventing holding both a Dáil(national) and a European Parliament seat? It was brought in, in the North recently, which led to John Hume and Ian Paisley standing down, I had assumed it was handed down from Brussels Fasach Nua 16:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I have a recollection that the bar included an exception for five years for incumbant dual mandatees to make it easier to bring in. Timrollpickering 17:32, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

How about a list of candidates per constituency, or a link to one? Even RTÉ's website seems a bit sparse concerning this. Also, the heading of this section is a bit presumptuous. The electorate will decide the membership changes on 24 May. What about "TDs not seeking re-election" or similar?--Dub8lad1 10:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * See previous elections eg Irish general election, 2002 for an example of how the Membership changes section will look after the election has taken place, when some candidates will have lost their seats. Given that some candidates are retiring, there WILL be changes.  A list of candidates sounds like a lot of work.  There are already candidate lists on wiki.politics.ie and ElectionsIreland.org--Rye1967 11:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Because Liz O'Donnell actually represent Dublin South (not as stated, Dublin South Central), I have consequently amended the box to change Dublin South Central to "Dublin South" beside Liz O'Donnell's name. (Irishman 01.01 AM GMT 27/05/07)

If you tally up the figures from the results graph there are 167 seats counted - one too many. Also, FF is listed as gaining 3 seats but went from 81 to 78 seats - looks like a loss to me. This fouls up the numbers in terms of number and percentage of seat changes.

"for the 165 of the 166 Dáil Éireann seats."
Doesn't make any sense to me, I've changed it. — Nightst a  llion  (?) 10:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Ceann Comhairle does not have to stand for election. Have changed it back.--Dub8lad1 10:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

"At every election, some outgoing TDs have lost their seats."
Tautology or bungled attempt to actually say something?

Not a tautology: "Outgoing TDs" refers to all the members of the previous (dissolved) Dail. This is a typical term you will hear and see used in the Irish media.
 * I had added that sentence in advance of the election in response to the above comments questioning the need for the Membership changes title, as a hint to readers that after the election there would likely be some who had lost their seats, but of course there was also the tiny possibility that non would lose seats in this election so I couldn't write that it would happen for certain. Now that it has taken place and some have lost seats, I have replaced the offending sentence. :) --Rye1967 19:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Incoming results
Do we want to update the table as results come in - or do it all at once at the end? (FF just got the first result - candidate returned in Dub Mid-West). Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 13:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Changes over the last 20 years
I can't put this in any article, since it's OR, but I think it's interesting all the same: if you look at the results of every alternate election since 1989, it becomes clear that very little has changed at all! Worth bearing in mind whenever anybody talks about "seismic shifts" etc.

Scolaire 17:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

 * That's interesting stuff. I don't think it's original research if you just complied the data from official sources though, maybe it could be used in some article, perhaps as part of a more general analysis of Irish elections. --Hibernian 16:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * It's very interesting (and a little depressing), but I think you're right that it's ORish. Maybe you should write a letter to the Irish Times, and then get someone to quote you. :)  (It did occur to me that we were essentially back to where we were two elections ago, but I was out of the country the week following the election, so I'm not up on commentary on the matter.)  Alai 13:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Proportion of votes - Fianna Fail
Just a clarification the table does indicate that the first preferences proportion for Fianna Fail increased by a marginal 0.1% on the last election. Thou' thats hardly squeezing the smaller parties, and Green Party and Sinn Fein actually increased their proportion of votes. Djegan 22:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

New Table
I added a new table to the article as the larger table is fairly messy.Please don't delete it. The H-Man2 18:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

"Parties"/not parties
Should entities that are not political parties (e.g., ICP, Fathers' Rights, etc.) be listed in the table showing the percentages/numbers of first preferences by party? What about People Before Profit, who registered after the deadline (which we'll need a cite for)? Technically, its factually incorrect to list them on the table; but it does provide useful comparison information. Maybe an asterisk next to those entities' names, pointing to the information added today: ? Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 16:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'd be happy with the asterix approach. It's a similar approach to that eventually agreed on the position of Republican Sinn Fein's candidates in the Northern Ireland Assembly election, 2007. Warofdreams talk 18:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The Table of Results
The numbers of first preference votes don't add up to the total.

I don't know how to edit the table but the numbers that need to be fixed are:

People Before Profit 9,333

Fathers Rights 1,355

Immigration Control 1,329

Irish Socialist Network 505

Independent 106,429

Invalid votes [a new line] 19,435

The table will now sum correctly.

The numbers can be found at both electionsireland.org and http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/publications/Electoral_Handbook1.pdf

Remember, the four party affiliations above weren't listed on the ballots so if we want to keep them in the table (which I think is a good idea) we have to remove those votes from the total for independents.

Electionsireland.org lists Gerry Browne in Kildare North as Independent Labour. If we add Independent Labour to the table we need to make the following additional adjustments.

Independent Labour [a new line] 145

Independent 106,284

 * Thanks, I have added in the updated figures, including the spoilt votes. Not adding Independent Labour as the table is big enough already, and its just a 1 person splinter group. Snappy (talk) 08:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

 * After the change the percentages didn't reflect the numbers of votes. I'll update the percentages.--Cavrdg (talk) 16:58, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Graphic
I've created graphical representations of every Irish election result to add to each election article. The information in the graphics have been checked and double checked, if anyone notices any errors however please do notify me. Due to the large amount of Irish parties that claim green as their colour, I decided to choose a gold/yellow scheme for Fianna Fail, as that party claim them as their alternate colours. This prevents the party from being confused with Sinn Féin, the Green Party or other republican groups in the earlier election.

I hope people enjoy the graphics and find them useful. JandK87 (talk) 18:51, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

'Last election' in info box
The 'last election' referred to in the info box is the 2002 election. But for readers today, 2007 is the last election. This is confusing. It would be more accurate to refer to the 2002 election as the 'previous election' or just the '2002 election'. When I try to edit this line, the whole line disappears. How can it be changed? Asmaybe (talk) 11:36, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Infobox
User "Snappy" has asked me to discuss the infobox on this page before reverting it. All Irish election pages from 1918 to 2002 use the larger version of the infobox with party leaders' pictures. It is only 2007 and 2011 which have the slimmed-down version. Both of these pages did have the larger version until "Snappy" himself changed them on 1st October. He made these changes himself without discussing them on the talk pages at all.

I would submit there is no consensus for altering the original infoboxes and it makes no sense for the Irish election pages from 1918 to 2002 to retain the larger versions but for 2007 and 2011 to be different. I am therefore reverting "Snappy"'s change. 86.147.208.85 (talk) 15:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it makes sense to change all of them, rather than revert the changes to these two, as the change was an improvement. Number   5  7  15:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The emerging consensus on wikipedia for election articles is use Infobox legislative election, see Next United Kingdom general election. Yes, I have been replacing the infoboxes on Irish general elections, its called being WP:BOLD. I agree with User:Number57, it makes sense to replace all of them. Snappy (talk) 17:40, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Snappy, being bold is good but if you are reverted then accept that you were reverted.
 * With regard to the "emerging consensus" to use this template, I see no evidence for that. What I do see is that it is used on just 30 pages. More that 25% of which you added it to over the last few days (Irish general elections). And >50% of which Number 57 added it to in May (Israeli general elections).
 * The template is visually pleasant IMO. However, it makes very substantive changes. Not least among this is that an awful lot of information is dropped. The Taoiseach element is also unsatisfactory IMO because it doesn't account for change of taoisigh between elections, such as in 2007-2011 (Brian Cowen) or 1992-1997 (John Bruton).
 * I'm also reverting the changes you made but I'm sure there's a way to improve the template to everyone's satisfaction. --Tóraí (talk) 23:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I was merely fixing to the newly-renamed parameters added when the infobox was converted from a purely Israeli one to a wider one to be used for other countries. It was actually added to the Israeli election articles by TheCuriousGnome back in 2012.
 * Also, your argument about how few pages this is used on doesn't really make sense. Any new infobox will have relatively few uses at the beginning, and any "we can't use it because no other articles do" type of argument just leads to a Catch-22 situation where the infobox can't be more widely used because it isn't already more widely used. Number   5  7  11:38, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarity. I see now that it began life as Template:Infobox Israeli Election]. And apart from 3 pages, it remains used exclusively for Israeli elections.
 * My argument about how few pages the template is used on was in repsonse to Snappy's claim that "[the] emerging consensus on wikipedia for election articles is use Infobox legislative election". There is no such emerging consensus as can be seen from the template use.
 * The way to use a new info box more widely is to gain consensus that the current infoboxes need to be replaced. Then you need to agree with others what to replace the current infoboxes with. Bear in mind that that might end up being different to what both what we have now AND what you propose now. --Tóraí (talk) 12:59, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Tóraí has reverted my changes, basically because he doesn't like it, doesn't want to changes anything ever. Infobox legislative election does account for change of taoisigh between elections, see, same as the other infobox. I have reverted the Next Irish general election to use Infobox legislative election, so that it matches the UK article. There may be no consensus to use it on previous elections, but there is one to use it on future elections. Snappy (talk) 13:15, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been reading with interest this discussion for a while. I do not agree with the addition of the new infobox. Aside from the reasons I already explained in the Sep 2015 Greek election article talk page when an issue arose on the infobox width, I also believe that the addition of the new infobox should be the exception, not the rule, and should be considered on a case by case basis unless a Wikipedia-wide consensus is achieved on the change of the election infobox format.
 * Also, there are some point where I disagree with you:
 * 1. You said there was "emerging consensus" on the addition of the new infobox. But you can't prove where that "emerging consensus" is. It is mostly (and basically) used in the Israeli election articles, and a few more. It seems there is consensus or, at least, not-opposition to its use in the Israeli elections as a general rule (which is fine), but that general rule consensus has not been reached for other countries' articles.
 * 2. You argue that the infobox should be used here because of Next United Kingdom general election article. I can point to Canadian federal election, 2015, Next New Zealand general election, Next Australian federal election and a lot more as examples of articles for next elections where this infobox is not used. Namely, because for the Next UK general election there are some circumstances that may explain the use of such infobox that are not present in this article (namely, the enormous disparity of vote/seats results between UKIP (third political force in terms of vote share but only winning 1 seat) and SNP (third political force in terms of seats but fifth in popular vote) in the 2015 election which would force one of them to be left out of the infobox if the traditional one is used).
 * I've reverted the infobox to the previous consensus version, at least until consensus for the addition of the new infobox can be reached for the Next Irish general election article.
 * Btw, shouldn't this be discussed there instead of here? Impru20 (talk) 13:33, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Snappy, that's a needless personal attack.
 * Future UK elections, perhaps. --Tóraí (talk) 18:18, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 19:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151002164238/http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1472359&issue_id=13023 to http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1472359&issue_id=13023
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070309154216/http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=39&si=102589 to http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=39&si=102589
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303210319/http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1706568&issue_id=14769 to http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1706568&issue_id=14769
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070309171453/http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1730988&issue_id=14935 to http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1730988&issue_id=14935
 * Added tag to http://www.michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/byelection.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:19, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

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title: Talk:2007 Irish general election