text:
Talk:Louis de Broglie

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

As discussed below, Louis de Broglie is the name he is known by in English (as is given in Naming conventions). I added the move tag accordingly. Benplowman 20:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Support move to Louis de Broglie. This is the name by which he is known in English. Andrewa 05:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support move to Louis de Broglie. Fully agree. However, all the links, many of which I recently changed, will have to be changed back. --Bduke 06:16, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It is used on the French Wikipedia article. If it is good enough there it is good enough here. --Bduke 22:36, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That's interesting and does support the move. If the French don't use the full title, it's unlikely that the English will... It just reeks of being pretentiously overcorrect (=wrong). But no, the overriding consideration is the name as used in English, not in French. No change of vote. Andrewa 19:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: No, there's no need to change any links from articles. The resulting redirect will take care of these. Redirects will need to be changed, but there are only two of these, and one of these will be overwritten by the move anyway. So the only one that will need fixing is Prince Louis-Victor Pierre Raymond de Broglie. If you want to tidy up any other links, that's fine, but it's not essential. No change of vote. Andrewa 14:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, if Bduke's gone through systematically eliminating the masking so that other articles say Louis, 7th duc de Broglie, that clumsy usage should be changed back. But normal editing, by editors with any sense of style, should take care of that, as soon as there no longer is the attraction of a direct link. This is another reason not to go around removing single redirects. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It would certainly be good to change it back, for tidiness. But it's not essential or urgent in the way that, say, fixing double redirects is. Andrewa 01:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not urgent, and where the full form is smooth and fluent prose, it should be left alone; but that will be rare. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 13:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Support, but leave full form in first line. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree that the full form should stay in the lead sentence, see Manual of Style (biographies): While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known. See also Lead section which probably should point to this particular convention but doesn't at present. No change of vote. Andrewa 01:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 06:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Duke
If Louis de Broglie was a French duke, then it follows that his title wouldn't be the seventh (7th) duc de Broglie, but Louis, le septième (7ième) duc de Broglie. Does anyone think the same, or should the seventh (7th) be left there for English people? (this is, after all, English Wikipedia).--Clickheretologin 13:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * On the point raised here (although I support the change above), no. We are written in English, for English speakers. Including septième as well as seventh is redundant for readers who know French, and almost pointless for those who don't. Going to fr:Louis de Broglie suggests that the French don't use it either; and if they did, it would be there. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

"francisize" does not seem to be a common word, How about "gallicize" instead?

 * Neither. Since this guy is known for actually doing something, not just for holding a title, Naming conventions says that the article should be the name by which he is best known in English:  Louis de Broglie, or possibly Louis Victor de Broglie or Louis-Victor de Broglie.  One or another of those spellings, of course, is used in the vast majority of the articles linking here, and I'd bet that almost all of them linking to the current article name were changed from something else at some time after this article was created.  All the duke stuff, in both English and French, can appear in the intro, but it doesn't belong in the article name.  Gene Nygaard 17:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Clean up
This article is poorly written. A complete rewrite may be necassary.Woldo 00:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The equation listed under Hidden thermodynamics deserves a lot more attention, in particular a proper name for this principal and a citation. This is a little known equation of huge importance! It explains the principal of least action--the foundation of all classical mechanics in terms of quantum statistical dynamics. Pulu (talk) 01:15, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Three pages
"His doctoral thesis is said to be three pages long"

These things are usually public, so this should be easy to check. Either "said to be" must go, or the entire sentence. Shinobu 13:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've heard that claim made on the web, but it seems to be nothing but an urban legend. The published version of de Broglie's thesis, "Recherches sur la théorie des quanta" is 111 pages long. -- Tim314 14:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I've heard his name pronounced a thousand different ways (de BROGlee, de BROGHlee de BROlee, de BROY)... any Francophones out there want to clarify this for the rest of us? --24.147.86.187 15:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Surely, though, the "el" in his last name is pronounced (it is not silent). I think the given IPA pronunciation should be changed to include the "el". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.54.33.173 (talk) 16:46, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * There is in fact no "el" sound in the pronunciation of this name. --Iceager (talk) 12:57, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

The article currently has, but the pronunciation in Standard French given by at least two French reference books on pronunciation is  (approximately duh-BROY in English). I do understand why many French speakers would use, since the combination (as in feuille ) is more familiar to them than , and also happens to be closer to the Piedmontese pronunciation for Breuj , the Piedmontese form of Broglie from which the French pronunciation derives. The corresponding Italian form Broglia is pronounced in Italian; the Piedmontese and Italian forms are found in Maison_de_Broglie (in French). I would correct the pronunciation in the article as, but the pronunciation in the linked sound file is. Should I give only as the correct pronunciation and remove the link to the sound file? Or should I give as an alternative pronunciation? Is there a reliable outside source for the pronunciation somewhere? --Iceager (talk) 12:57, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, I added to the article and listed it first, but I've kept the previous pronunciation of  as an alternative. Even though I haven't found any sources for the latter, I don't doubt that it is what lots of French speakers actually use. Perhaps someone can find an outside source and add it to the article. --Iceager (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I was most definitely taught by another family of (ci-devant) Normandy aristocracy that the name is correctly pronounced . That's also the only pronunciation given in the French WP. Awien (talk) 15:08, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Was de Broglie Black?
I have looked at many of his pictures over the course of his life, and he looks biracial or part black. He features, and his hair texture brought me to question his racial make up. His hair is afro in texture. That is not at all typical of anyone that does not have African ancestry. Also he never married. It was commonplace for black people in his day, passing for white for success in their careers, not to marry, because what the child may look like when it is born.

Can anyone provide a picture of his mother and father? Or any evidence that he may be black? 76.118.226.39 (talk) 23:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC)mke

 * This is complete nonsense as nobody cares whether he was or not. However, since he was a member of the French aristocracy as a Count, it is highly unlikely. --Bduke (talk) 11:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Why unlikely? The current ruler of Monaco, Prince Albert, has a "black" son (although illegitimately). 86.169.77.110 (talk) 00:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

 * In my estimation it's amply evident, Bduke, that at least one person does care (or did care circa 2007). I also don't personally care; but I'm not inclined to tell other folks not to believe what they see. The OP said that de Broglie appears to have negroid features. Do you mean to insinuate that de Broglie doesn't appear that way to the OP? Why is it nonsense to suggest such a thing? I personally don't think it's impossible. I also don't think his status as a noble peer makes it obviously unlikely. In fact I have no way of computing the likelihood that any one member of the Nobility may or may not have genes mixed with the Peasantry. I bet that you don't, either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.223.130.32 (talk) 23:43, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Here we discuss the article, not the subject—see wp:talk page guidelines. - DVdm (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Quite possibly. Another famous Frenchman, Alexandre Dumas had "black" blood. De Broglie's features could also be Jewish. Who knows? 86.169.77.110 (talk) 00:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposal for adding detail about his theory to the article
If nobody objects during the next several days, I plan to add the following to the article.

"De Broglie's argument began with the supposition that 'the basic idea of quantum theory is the impossibility of considering an isolated fragment of energy without assigning a certain frequency to it.' The particles of radiation -- and of matter as well --  had a level of existence that was fundamentally a 'periodic process.' "  Here is the footnote in case you can't read it back there. p. 277, Cropper, William H. Great Physicists: The Life and Times of Leading Physicists from Galileo to Hawking. Oxford, U.K.: Oxford University Press, 2001.

Thanks for your attention. Earththings (talk) 19:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

He is one of the man who have take No bel Prise in Only 5 years.

Bad paragraph...
The paragraph below makes a number of dubious claims, only some of which can be blamed on a poor translation from the French. Someone else clean it up or I will give it a try. Problems include but are not limited to:

1. Atomism has not been "ruined" by matter-waves; Wikipedia's article on 'Atoms' and on 'Atomism' indicates no such ruination.

2. The author is making unsubstantiated assertions when he argues that "a pure mathematical entity" gives matter merely an "appearance of wave behavior." This is hardly a settled scientific fact.

3. Changes in de Broglie's viewpoint are not accurately described.

4. The following statement is misleading at best: "The de Broglie-Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves...." Objective collapse interpretations, including that of Penrose, give a real status to the wave function and such an entity can certainly be termed a "matter wave" in the sense that Bohm and de Broglie used it.

-From the current article: "From a philosophical viewpoint, this theory of matter-waves has contributed greatly to the ruin of the atomism of the past. Originally, de Broglie thought that real wave (i.e., having a direct physical interpretation) was associated with particles. In fact, the wave aspect of matter was formalized by a wavefunction defined by the Schrödinger equation, which is a pure mathematical entity having a probabilistic interpretation, without the support of real physical elements. This wavefunction gives an appearance of wave behavior to matter, without making real physical waves appear. However, until the end of his life de Broglie returned to a direct and real physical interpretation of matter-waves, following the work of David Bohm. The de Broglie-Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves and representing the predictions of quantum theory. But, since it has some problems and doesn't go further in its predictions than the Copenhagen interpretation, it is little recognized by the scientific community."

Chrisman62 (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

de Broglie's Death
How did he die? And where? 65.185.171.242 (talk) 21:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Old age? 86.169.77.110 (talk) 00:14, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

de Broglie's wave mechanics
de Broglie's wave mechanics is not de Broglie-Bohm theory, nor is it a precursor of it. They are very different in terms of the physical wave. In de Broglie's wave mechanics, and associated double solution theory, there is a physical wave which guides (i.e. pilots) the particle and a statistical wave function which is for making predictions of experiments. The statistical wave function does not physically exist. In de Broglie-Bohm theory the wave function physically exists. de Broglie-Bohm theory should be referred to as Bohmian mechanics as de Broglie's theories are very different and de Broglie disagreed with the notion of a physical wave function. Mpc755 (talk) 07:12, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

 * I have removed the wp:SYNTH, pending discussion. I have also removed your unsourced content at Double-slit experiment, pointing to here. - DVdm (talk) 07:53, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

 * de Broglie's wave mechanics is the foundation of everything he did. I have removed the section having to do with the work by Steinberg. The work done with walking droplets is relevant as the MIT work ends with, "This physical picture is remarkably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie..." Mpc755 (talk) 08:25, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Reverted. User Mpc755 is blocked again, now for 5 days. - DVdm (talk) 08:55, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

In the off chance that constructive collaboration is possible, let me offer a few concerns and suggestions. While removing the weak measurement part is a good start (it was never clear from the references whether it was referring to the de Broglie-Bohm theory or a pre-Bohm de Broglie pilot wave theory), it still leaves a great deal of original synthesis that makes the addition unacceptable IMO. As I've said before, the inclusion of the Laughlin quote (I'm assuming from pg 121 in the cited book) is a classic example of WP:SYNTH. Here we have two statements from two sources (A) de Broglie talks about a hidden medium for his pilot wave theory and (B) Laughlin talks about space being like a piece of window glass, filled with a relativistic ether, combined in a way to suggest that (C) Laughlin's relativistic ether is de Broglie's hidden medium, a conclusion found in neither of the sources. To quote from WP:OR:
 * Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources. ... "A and B, therefore C" is acceptable only if a reliable source has published the same argument in relation to the topic of the article.

Additionally the idea that a particle displaces this hidden medium and is analogous to the bow wave of a ship cannot be found in any of the cited refs (at least I can't find it) and hence cannot be included as it is original synthesis. The comments involving water droplet experiment could be reworked and included as a re-emergence of the idea, albeit not in a quantum system, but any attempt to push it as evidence that de Broglie's is the correct interpretation of QM is OR at this point since the that idea is not found in any of the cited reliable sources (also note, youtube is generally not a reliable source). Finally, it would really help if you could find a secondary source that discusses de Broglie's pilot wave theory, especially one that distinguishes it from the de Broglie-Bohm theory, as right now your edit relies entirely on a primary source, de Broglie's original paper putting forward this idea. A secondary source could solve most of the possible OR issues and provide the context needed to determine the due weight to give this subtopic. So to sum up, and hopefully make future discussion easier: Did I miss anything guys? --FyzixFighter (talk) 01:20, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Inclusion of Laughlin quote looks like WP:SYNTH (A+B=C)
 * 2) Displacement of hidden medium/bow wave analogy appears to be an original conclusion not found in the cited sources
 * 3) Rework water droplet comments to remove hints of pushing the OR idea that de Broglie's pilot wave is the correct interpretation of QM
 * 4) Find a good secondary source which discusses and puts in context de Broglie's pilot wave theory.

 * Sounds reasonable. See . - DVdm (talk) 06:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

I would like to add the following to this wiki page. Mpc755 (talk) 14:06, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

How de Broglie's wave mechanics differs from Bohmian mechanics
de Broglie-Bohm theory should be referred to as Bohmian mechanics as de Broglie disagreed with Bohm in terms of what physically waves. In Bohmian mechanics there is only the $Ψ$ wave which de Broglie insists is of statistical nature only; it does not physically exist. In de Broglie's double solution theory there is the physical $u$ wave connected to and neighboring the particle which guides the particle and a statistical $Ψ$ wave used to determine probabilistic results from experiments.

de Broglie said the following in "Une tentative d'interprétation causale et non linéaire de la mécanique ondulatoire: la théorie de la double solution. Paris: Gauthier-Villars, 1956."

"But, as I have said, since 1951 I have once again been wondering if, after all, my first idea was not the right one. Further reflections on this very difficult problem have led me to refine certain points of the original double-solution theory.[Preface VI]

I have once more taken up the study of my former and earliest conceptions of Wave Mechanics without preconceived ideas of any sort and without any personal axe to grind. I may be wrong in wishing to go back to concepts that are clearer than those prevailing in theortetical physics at the present time. But I should like this line of thought, abandoned for some twenty-five years now and believed to lead to an impasse, to be carefully re-examined to see whether, on the contrary, it may not be the pathway that might lead to the true Microphysics of the Future.[Preface VII]

Unfortunately the development of the theory of the Double Solution presented great mathematical difficulties. For that reason, when I was requested to present a paper on Wave Mechanics at the Solvay Physical Congress held in Brussels in October 1927, I contented myself with a presentation of my ideas in an incomplete and diluted form which I called the "pilot-wave theory". ... And I used the term "pilot-wave theory" for the theory limited to the postulation of the existence of the particle and the $Ψ$ wave, with no futher reference to a wave containing a singularity. ... But the $Ψ$ wave usually employed in Wave Mechanics cannot be a physical reality; its normalization is arbitrary; its propagation, in the general case, is supposed to take place in an obviously fictitious configuration space, and the success of its probabilistic interpretation shows clearly that it is merely a representation of probabilities dependent upon the state of our knowledge and suddenly modified by every new piece of information. So I saw clearly that the pilot-wave theory could not supply the interpretation I sought; it did not achieve the clearcut separation of the objective and subjective, which had been give up by Bohr and his disciples, but which it was necessary to maintain if I was to arrive at a concrete and causal interpretation of Wave Mechanics.[Pages 90-91]

On the other hand, my original theory of the Double Solution, by distinguishing the $Ψ$ wave, with its probabilistic and subjective character, from the singularity-wave ($u$), which was to be a description of objective reality, might possibly supply the more classical type of interpretation I was after. But I knew only too well that the theory of the double solution likewise involved numerous difficulties, especially when it came to the existence and form of singularity-waves and to their relation to the $Ψ$ waves, or when one had to interpret in terms of singularity-waves interference experiments of the Young-slit type, etc.[Pages 91-92]

During the summer of 1951, there came to my attention, much to my surprise, a paper by David Bohm which appeard subsequently in The Physical Review. In this paper Bohm went back to my theory of pilot-wave, considering the $Ψ$ wave as physical reality. He made a certain number of interesting remarks on the subject, and in particular, he indicated the broad outline of a theory of measurement that seemed to answer the objections Pauli had made to my approach in 1927. My first reaction on reading Bohm's work was to reiterate, in a communication to the Comptes rendus de l' Academie des Sciences, the objects, insurmountable in my opinion, that seemed to render impossible any attribution of physical reality to the $Ψ$ wave, and consequently, to render impossible the adoption of the pilot-wave theory.[Pages 92]"

de Broglie's description of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory
"When in 1923–1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was looking for a truly concrete physical image, valid for all particles, of the wave and particle coexistence discovered by Albert Einstein in his "Theory of light quanta". I had no doubt whatsoever about the physical reality of waves and particles.

For me, the particle, precisely located in space at every instant, forms on the v wave a small region of high energy concentration, which may be likened in a first approximation, to a moving singularity. —Louis de Broglie"

de Broglie's understanding of wave-particle duality was that the particle is a moving singularity with an associated wave.

"Any particle, even isolated, has to be imagined as in continuous 'energetic contact' with a hidden medium"

de Broglie's understanding of wave-particle duality is that it is a hidden medium which waves.

de Broglie's wave mechanics explanation for the behaviors in a double slit experiment
"While the founding fathers agonized over the question 'particle' or 'wave', de Broglie in 1925 proposed the obvious answer 'particle' and 'wave'. Is it not clear from the smallness of the scintillation on the screen that we have to do with a particle? And is it not clear, from the diffraction and interference patterns, that the motion of the particle is directed by a wave? De Broglie showed in detail how the motion of a particle, passing through just one of two holes in screen, could be influenced by waves propagating through both holes. And so influenced that the particle does not go where the waves cancel out, but is attracted to where they cooperate. This idea seems to me so natural and simple, to resolve the wave-particle dilemma in such a clear and ordinary way, that it is a great mystery to me that it was so generally ignored. - J. S. Bell"

"In a double slit experiment the particle travels a well defined path which takes it through one slit. The associated wave in the hidden medium passes through both. As the wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave guiding the particle. Detecting the particle strongly exiting a single slit destroys the cohesion between the particle and its associated wave and the particle continues on the trajectory it was traveling."

Walking droplets
"Yves Couder and co-workers recently discovered a macroscopic pilot wave system in the form of walking droplets. This system exhibits behaviour of a pilot wave, heretofore considered to be reserved to microscopic phenomena."

"MIT researchers expand the range of quantum behaviors that can be replicated in fluidic systems, offering a new perspective on wave-particle duality. "Whatever the case may be in quantum mechanics, the statistics are an incomplete description of our fluid system and emerge from an underlying pilot-wave dynamics. This physical picture is remakably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie...""

How de Broglie's wave mechanics differs from Bohmian mechanics
de Broglie believed that his theory was distinct from Bohm's pilot wave theory.

"My first reaction on reading Bohm's work was to reiterate, in a communication to the Comptes rendus de l' Academie des Sciences, the objects, insurmountable in my opinion, that seemed to render impossible any attribution of physical reality to the $Ψ$ wave, and consequently, to render impossible the adoption of the pilot-wave theory. —Louis de Broglie"

de Broglie's description of wave mechanics by the double solution theory
de Broglie's wave mechanics consists of a particle and an associated wave.

"When in 1923–1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was looking for a truly concrete physical image, valid for all particles, of the wave and particle coexistence discovered by Albert Einstein in his "Theory of light quanta". I had no doubt whatsoever about the physical reality of waves and particles. ... For me, the particle, precisely located in space at every instant, forms on the v wave a small region of high energy concentration, which may be likened in a first approximation, to a moving singularity. ... Any particle, even isolated, has to be imagined as in continuous 'energetic contact' with a hidden medium —Louis de Broglie"

de Broglie's wave mechanics explanation for the behaviors in a double slit experiment
John Bell describes what occurs in a double slit experiment according to de Broglie's wave mechanics as a 'particle' and 'wave' where the particle passes through just one of the two holes and the waves propagating through both. In a book by J.S. Redinha describes the particle as a 'singularity' which passes through one slit or the other, and the "pilot wave" through both slits.

The following is a more up-to-date description of the de Broglie wave mechanics explanation of the double slit experiment.

"In a double slit experiment the particle travels a well defined path which takes it through one slit. The associated wave in the hidden medium passes through both. As the wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave guiding the particle. Strongly detecting the particle exiting a single slit destroys the cohesion between the particle and its associated wave and the particle continues on the trajectory it was traveling."

Walking droplets
"Yves Couder and co-workers recently discovered a macroscopic pilot wave system in the form of walking droplets. This system exhibits behaviour of a pilot wave, heretofore considered to be reserved to microscopic phenomena."

"MIT researchers expand the range of quantum behaviors that can be replicated in fluidic systems, offering a new perspective on wave-particle duality. This physical picture is remakably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie...""

Matter and wave–particle duality
"The fundamental idea of [my 1924 thesis] was the following: The fact that, following Einstein's introduction of photons in light waves, one knew that light contains particles which are concentrations of energy incorporated into the wave, suggests that all particles, like the electron, must be transported by a wave into which it is incorporated... My essential idea was to extend to all particles the coexistence of waves and particles discovered by Einstein in 1905 in the case of light and photons." "With every particle of matter with mass m and velocity v a real wave must be 'associated'", related to the momentum by the equation:
 * $$\lambda = \frac{h}{p} = \frac {h} \sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}$$

where $$\lambda$$ is the wavelength, $$h$$ is the Planck constant, $$p$$ is the momentum, $$m$$ is the rest mass, $$v$$ is the velocity and $$c$$ is the speed of light in a vacuum."

This theory set the basis of wave mechanics. It was supported by Einstein, confirmed by the electron diffraction experiments of Davisson and Germer, and generalized by the work of Schrödinger.

However, this generalization was statistical and was not approved of by de Broglie, who said "that the particle must be the seat of an internal periodic movement and that it must move in a wave in order to remain in phase with it was ignored by the actual physicists [who are] wrong to consider a wave propagation without localization of the particle, which was quite contrary to my original ideas."

From a philosophical viewpoint, this theory of matter-waves has contributed greatly to the ruin of the atomism of the past. Originally, de Broglie thought that real wave (i.e., having a direct physical interpretation) was associated with particles. In fact, the wave aspect of matter was formalized by a wavefunction defined by the Schrödinger equation, which is a pure mathematical entity having a probabilistic interpretation, without the support of real physical elements. This wavefunction gives an appearance of wave behavior to matter, without making real physical waves appear. However, until the end of his life de Broglie returned to a direct and real physical interpretation of matter-waves, following the work of David Bohm. The de Broglie–Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves and representing the predictions of quantum theory.

de Broglie believed that his theory was distinct from Bohm's pilot wave theory
"My first reaction on reading Bohm's work was to reiterate, in a communication to the Comptes rendus de l' Academie des Sciences, the objects, insurmountable in my opinion, that seemed to render impossible any attribution of physical reality to the $Ψ$ wave, and consequently, to render impossible the adoption of the pilot-wave theory. —Louis de Broglie"

de Broglie's wave mechanics description of wave-particle duality
"When in 1923–1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was looking for a truly concrete physical image, valid for all particles, of the wave and particle coexistence discovered by Albert Einstein in his "Theory of light quanta". I had no doubt whatsoever about the physical reality of waves and particles. ... For me, the particle, precisely located in space at every instant, forms on the v wave a small region of high energy concentration, which may be likened in a first approximation, to a moving singularity. ... Any particle, even isolated, has to be imagined as in continuous 'energetic contact' with a hidden medium —Louis de Broglie"

de Broglie's wave mechanics explanation for the behaviors in a double slit experiment
John Bell describes what occurs in a double slit experiment according to de Broglie's wave mechanics as a 'particle' and 'wave' where the particle passes through just one of the two holes and the waves propagating through both. In a book by J.S. Redinha the particle is described as a 'singularity' which passes through one slit or the other, and the "pilot wave" through both slits.

In de Broglie wave mechanics the particle travels a well defined path which takes it through one slit. The associated wave in the hidden medium passes through both. As the wave exits the slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference. This is the wave guiding the particle. Strongly detecting the particle exiting a single slit destroys the cohesion between the particle and its associated wave and the particle continues on the trajectory it was traveling.

Walking droplets
Yves Couder and co-workers recently discovered a macroscopic pilot wave system in the form of walking droplets. This system exhibits behaviour of a pilot wave, heretofore considered to be reserved to microscopic phenomena.

MIT researchers expand the range of quantum behaviors that can be replicated in fluidic systems, offering a new perspective on wave-particle duality. This physical picture is remakably similar to an early model of quantum dynamics proposed by Louis de Broglie..."

WTF is "ogg"?
The pronunciation file won't play on any of the several media players I've tried it on.

How about replacing it with a more universal standard format file, like .WAV or .MP3? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It's pretty standard here—see article Ogg, and check the sound clips in article Frank Zappa . When downloaded as a local file, it plays with VLC media player, foobar2000 and BS.player Free. It directly plays in my browser version of Firefox. - DVdm (talk) 19:30, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Absolutely with the IP editor. Can't play OGG, can't be bothered to pursue enabling it. It got chosen back at the dawn of time, fine. Now it's long past time to replace it with something more accessible. Awien (talk) 17:31, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Supposed Atheism
I removed claims of his atheism, as the supporting links did not show atheism specifically. One states he had "ceased the religious practices of his youth." This doesn't necessarily mean he was an atheist. The other source is from a "list of the nonreligous, the agnostics, and the atheists," which doesn't add specificity and is probably based on the former anecdote.

In terms of evidence for non-atheism, he came from a family who gave the Church many ecclesiastics; his funeral was held at the Church of Saint-Pierre-de-Neuilly; the book Les Professeurs de la faculté des sciences de Paris, 1901-1939 states he was Catholic: https://www.persee.fr/doc/inrp_0298-5632_1989_ant_25_1_8664; and his brother, Maurice, was a member of L’Union Catholique des Scientifiques Français.Akasseb (talk) 23:26, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Matter and wave–particle duality vs Matter wave page.
Two parts of two pages discuss de Broglie's most famous and impactful contribution: Matter waves and their wavelength.

1) Here on the page devoted to his life, we have "Matter and wave–particle duality". This section is at least a printed page in length and yet it starts by pointing to a subsection of Matter Wave. IMO this section contains unreferenced material of philosophical character, not suited to de Broglie's history nor physics.

2) On Matter Wave we have a long section on history focused on de Broglie and his impact.

We need Matter Wave to expand to include many new results in contemporary physics and to include historical material for Matter waves as a subject rather than de Broglie alone.

My proposal it a new page "De Broglie hypothesis" combining the content for the two sources above. In those two places shorter sections would lead readers to the more in depth content. This new page would be focused on the most famous work of de Broglie and it's impact.

Johnjbarton (talk) 00:32, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Reverted move
The Louis de Broglie page was move to a page "Louis de Broglie, 7th Duke of Broglie" without discussion.

The 7th dukeness of Louis de Broglie is a small footnote on this Nobel prize winner's legacy and does not belong in the title of his Bio.

This very topic was previously discussed Talk:Louis_de_Broglie.

I reverted the move. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:53, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Louis de Broglie


text:
Francis Joseph Murray

Francis Joseph Murray (February 3, 1911 – March 15, 1996) was a mathematician, known for his foundational work (with John von Neumann) on functional analysis, and what subsequently became known as von Neumann algebras. He received his BA from Columbia College in 1932 and PhD from Columbia University in 1936. He taught at Duke University.

In 1967 he was awarded the Outstanding Civilian Service Medal by the U. S. Army.

Selected publications

 * 1936 (with J. von Neumann), "On rings of operators," Ann. of Math. 2(37): 116–229. The original paper on von Neumann algebras.
 * 1937 (with J. von Neumann), "On rings of operators II," Trans. Amer. Math. Soc. 41: 208–248.
 * 1943 (with J. von Neumann), "On rings of operators IV," Ann. of Math. 2(44): 716–808.
 * 1941. An Introduction to Linear Transformations in Hilbert Space. Annals of Mathematics Studies, no. 4. Princeton Univ. Press.
 * 1947. The theory of mathematical machines. Columbia Univ. Press.
 * 1954. (with Kenneth S. Miller). Existence Theorems for Ordinary Differential Equations. ISBN 0-88275-320-7; 2nd printing Krieger 1976; reprint Dover 2013.
 * 1978. Applied Mathematics: An Intellectual Orientation. ISBN 0-306-39252-6

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Francis Joseph Murray


text:
Siras

Siras has different meanings:

 * Albizia, is a genus of about 150 species of mostly fast-growing subtropical and tropical trees and shrubs in the subfamily Mimosoideae of the legume family, Fabaceae.
 * Ramchandra Siras (1948–2010), Indian linguist

title: Siras


text:
Ernesto Rojas Commandos

The Ernesto Rojas Commandos (Comandos Ernesto Rojas), was a small guerrilla group in Colombia. It was formed through a split in the EPL in 1991. It demobilized through a peace treaty with the government in 1992. At the time of demobilization CER had 25 fighters.

title: Ernesto Rojas Commandos


text:
Template:Num

(number)

title: Template:Num


text:
Acacia auriculiformis

Acacia auriculiformis, commonly known as earleaf acacia, earpod wattle, auri (in the Philippines), karuvel (in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka) and aakashmani (in West Bengal), is a fast-growing, crooked, gnarly tree in the family Fabaceae. It is native to Australia, Philippines, Indonesia, and Papua New Guinea. It grows up to 30 m tall. Acacia auriculiformis has about 47000 /kg.

Identification
Acacia auriculiformis is an evergreen tree that grows between to 15–30 m tall, with a trunk as high as 12 m and 50 cm in diameter. The trunk is crooked and the bark vertically fissured. Roots are shallow and spreading.

It has dense foliage with an open, spreading crown. Leaves 10–16 cm long and 1.5–2.5 cm wide with 3–8 parallel nerves, thick, leathery and curved.

Flowers are 8 cm long and in pairs, creamy yellow and sweet scented. Pods are about 6.5 x 1.5 cm, flat, cartilaginous, glaucous, transversely veined with undulate margins. They are initially straight but on maturity become twisted with irregular spirals. Seeds are transversely held in the pod, broadly ovate to elliptical, about 4–6 mm x 3–4 mm (0.16-0.24 in x 0.12-0.16 in). At Kozhikode (Kerala, India), flocks of jungle crow (large-billed crow, Corvus macrorhynchos), grey-headed myna (chestnut-tailed starling, Sturnia malabarica) and red-whiskered bulbul (Pycnonotus jocosus) have been observed to feed on the seeds with the aril, which is exposed when the pods are split. These birds also probably help in dispersal of seeds.

The generic name Acacia comes from the Greek word akis meaning a point or a barb and the specific epithet comes from the Latin auricula- external ear of animals and forma- form, figure or shape, alluding to the shape of the pod.

Local names on the subcontinent: Telugu: Minnumaanu (మిన్నుమాను), Kondamanu (కొండ మాను), Seema Babul (సీమ బాబుల్), Maha Babul (మహా బాబుల్); Bengali: Akaashmoni; Tamil: Karuvel, Thai: กระถินณรงค์

Uses
This plant is raised as an ornamental plant, as a shade tree and it is also raised on plantations for fuelwood throughout southeast Asia, Oceania and in Sudan. Its wood is good for making paper, furniture and tools. It contains tannin useful in animal hide tanning. In India, its wood and charcoal are widely used for fuel. Gum from the tree is sold commercially, but it is said not to be as useful as gum arabic. In Thailand the small fresh leaves are eaten, often with nam prik chili sauce or papaya salad. The tree is used to make an analgesic by indigenous Australians. Extracts of Acacia auriculiformis heartwood inhibit fungi that attack wood. Aqeuous extracts of A. auriculiformis show developmental inhibitory effects on Bactrocera cucurbitae (the melon fly).

Functional uses

Products

 * Fodder: Not widely used as fodder, but in India 1-year-old plantations are browsed by cattle. Apiculture: The flowers are a source of pollen for honey production.
 * Fuel: A major source of firewood, its dense wood and high energy (calorific value of 4500-4900 kcal/kg) contribute to its popularity. It provides very good charcoal that glows well with little smoke and does not spark.
 * Fibre: The wood is extensively used for paper pulp. Plantation-grown trees have been found promising for the production of unbleached kraft pulp and high-quality, neutral, sulphite semi-chemical pulp. Large-scale plantations have already been established, as in Kerala, India, for the production of pulp.
 * Timber: The sapwood is yellow; the heartwood light brown to dark red, straight grained and reasonably durable. The wood has a high basic density (500–650 kg/m3), is fine-grained, often attractively figured and finishes well. It is excellent for turnery articles, toys, carom coins, chessmen and handicrafts. Also used for furniture, joinery, tool handles, and for construction if trees of suitable girth are available. Awang et al 1994 reports the most significant provenance-by-environment effect for any Acacia. Awang located a strain of A. auriculiformis with statistically significantly faster growth when planted according to its provenance, which has been achieved for very few Acacia cultivars. Even so no cultivar's provenance interaction has been taken very seriously by breeders.
 * Tannin or dyestuff: The bark contains sufficient tannin (13-25%) for commercial exploitation and contains 6-14% of a natural dye suitable for the soga-batik industry. In India, the bark is collected locally for use as tanning material. A natural dye, used in the batik textile industry in Indonesia, is also extracted from the bark.
 * Other products: An edible mushroom, Tylopylus fellus, is common in plantations of A. auriculiformis in Thailand.

Services

 * Erosion control: Its spreading, superficial and densely matted root system makes A. auriculiformis suitable for stabilizing eroded land.
 * Shade or shelter: The dense, dark-green foliage, which remains throughout the dry season, makes it an excellent shade tree. Planted to provide shelter on beaches and beachfronts.
 * Reclamation: The spreading, densely matted root system stabilizes eroding land. Its rapid early growth, even on infertile sites, and tolerance of both highly acidic and alkaline soils make it popular for stabilizing and revegetating mine spoils.
 * Soil improver: Plantations of A. auriculiformis improve soil physio-chemical properties such as water-holding capacity, organic carbon, nitrogen and potassium through litter fall. Its phyllodes provide a good, long-lasting mulch.
 * Nitrogen fixing: A. auriculiformis can fix nitrogen after nodulating with a range of Rhizobium and Bradyrhizobium strains. It also has associations with both ecto- and endo-mycorrhizal fungi.
 * Ornamental: It is used for shade and ornamental purposes in cities where its hardiness, dense foliage and bright yellow flowers are positive attributes.
 * Intercropping: The effect of intercropping with annual crops varies. Increased tree growth has been found with kenaf (Hibiscus cannabinus), upland rice and groundnut in Thailand; reduced growth with maize in Cameroon.

Pests and diseases

In Indonesia, growth rate has been impaired by a rust fungus, Uromyces digitatus; in India, root rot caused by a fungus (Ganoderma lucidum) has been reported. A beetle (Sinoxylon spp.) can girdle young stems and branches, causing them to break. The insect is of concern, because the tree will develop multiple leaders if the main stem is damaged and the length of the bole will be reduced. Nambiar and Harwood 2014 find severe disease losses in plantations in Indonesia and Malaysia. This is serious enough to require resistance breeding be a high priority in Acacia breeding.

title: Acacia auriculiformis