text:
Talk:Leones de Ponce (basketball)

Untitled
I just finished reading your essay on the history of the Ponce Leones basketball team. As a former member of the team (1979-1980), I could not help but laugh at those players you felt warranted mention in this article. Chemba Lanuaza???? What a stiff!!! And Papote Agosto and Papirito Leon?? These guys you consider reknowned?? What about the person who their arena is named after, Mr. Pachin Vicens himself? He was only the greatest point guard in Puerto Rican history. And his nephew, Michael Vicens, who made a name for himself playing at Boston University? Then there's Joe Hatton, whose son Bobby Joe now plays on the National team. There are others: Angel "Conejo" Garcia, Cesar Bocachica Sr.(how can you mention his son and not him?), Richie Hernandez, Josean Baez, et al. None of those players you mention could hold a candle next to these guys, much less compete with them. If you're going to make the effort to create an information source such as this, you'd be doing all your readers a better service by doing some extra homework and knowing more about your subject matter. Pedro Acevedo Westbury, NY

 * Even though I'm not the author of the article... as a resident of Ponce, and therefore a fan of the team since my childhood (I live two blocks away from the Auditorium) I agree with you on most of your case. However, your mention of Papote Agosto stands out to me, as I consider him to be a great player in his time and a focal part of what was then known as "Los Cuatro Jinetes del Apocalipsis" (with Toñito, Bobby, and Charlie.) Also, since I agree with you about Pachín, and I also consider the lack of mentioning his name in the article to be a crass mistake, I was trying to come up with some facts about him on the net, but (sadly!) I couldn't find any. Anyway, since I just came up to this article, I will try to work with it and improve its quality. I already added the logo and cleaned some links and added others, to make the article more readable. Anyway, feel free to leave here or in my Talk Page any suggestions for the article. Thanks! Thief12 00:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Leones de Ponce (basketball)


text:
Talk:Karl Fischer titration

What can be used to keep the free water in a sample from condensing on the side of the sample container. Once it has condensed on the side of the container is there anyway to put the water back into the hydrocarbon in order to get a reliable test result?

Colors needed
I suggest describing the colors of the solution before and after the end point. Thomas.Hedden (talk) 14:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Disadvantages?
I'd like to see some discussion about whether impuries such as acid, base or alcohols in the sample or presence of hydroxyl groups on the compound of interest would skew the results. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.58.204.226 (talk) 15:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment
The described method is the coulometric alternative of Karl Fisher's titration. This is more precise as the titration consist in measuring the amount of electron used. There is no volumetric titration in this case.

The most common Karl Fisher titration consist in a reagent poured in the titration cell and a titration solution. After introducing the sample, the volumetric titration start until equivalent point, measured by the conductivity change of the solution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.250.87.84 (talk) 09:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Equation is wrong?
It seems that the described equation is inaccurate. The equation suggests a 2 to 1 molar equivalency of water to Iodine, but the sentence below the equation suggests 1 to 1. Brief googling suggests a different equation than the one shown on the wiki page. Here, for example. https://byjus.com/chemistry/karl-fischer-titration/ Can anyone else with more experience verify this? Willmskinner (talk) 22:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Karl Fischer titration


text:
Talk:Demographics of New York City

Need for updated demographics
The updated Census information for NYC shows some significant changes following the 2020 Census. For some reason, much of the article continues to cite numbers from the 2000 Census, the 2007 ACS, etc. I don't know how to edit tables, or I would have a whack at it, and don't have the time or facility to edit the entire article—but maybe some editors could agree to take responsibility for updating specific sections? In addition, I would suggest that: Thanks, and please let me know any thoughts or suggestions! ElleTheBelle 15:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Non-Hispanic whites and blacks should be included in the race/ethnicity table (or be added to a second table).
 * I've also added information about foreign-born Hispanics racial self-identification (33% white, 9% black), but if anyone knows of or finds those numbers for all Hispanics in NYC, that would be great!
 * Percentile tables where overlap exists (i.e., racial/ethnic numbers where some Hispanics are simultaneously included as black or white), should include a "does not add up to 100%" label. I don't know if there's a Wikipedia policy, but it seems pretty standard elsewhere and is obviously helpful.
 * Couldn't agree with you more. This seems to be a near-universal problem with Demographics and Demography articles; see, for example, the discussion at Talk:Demographics of South Africa. What works for other types of article, such as history and biography, doesn't work for demography, because much of the articles seem to result from successive editors adding their little bit (such as Ruritanian-Americans in Cleveland) without proper regard for the tables and text that have been posted earlier, often many years ago. —— Shakescene (talk) 22:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I might have a go at updating the ethnic figures if need be, if you ever wanted to do it yourself @Ekpyros I recommend using the Visual Editor, works a charm when editing tables (as doing it through wikitext can be a bit of a slog) Tweedle (talk) 11:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Ethnic Groups in New York City
Is currently a redirect to this article, Demographics of New York City. However, there is also the article New York City ethnic enclaves. It was pointed out that similar articles about ethnic groups in US metro areas are titled Ethnic groups in Baltimore, Ethnic groups in Chicago, Ethnic groups in Metro Detroit, Ethnic groups in Houston, Ethnic groups in Los Angeles, Ethnic groups in Omaha, and Ethnic groups in Syracuse, New York.

So does anyone object to changing the redirect Ethnic groups in New York City to replace the article title New York City ethnic enclaves? Sativa Inflorescence (talk) 15:51, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:New York City ethnic enclaves which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:02, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Adding Immigrants Quantitative Sources for Latino Immigration History
— Assignment last updated by Katherine.Holt (talk) 20:34, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Demographics of New York City


text:
Sabine Appelmans

Sabine Appelmans (born 22 April 1972) is a former professional tennis player from Belgium. She was Belgium's Fed Cup captain from 2007 until 2011.

Career
Appelmans started playing at the neighbour's court at the age of seven. Her first trainer, Fred Debruyn, saw immediately that she was very talented. Although right-handed, she played left-handed; at a children's tennis training session she claimed to be left-handed so she could stay with her friend in the left-handed group.

Appelmans turned pro in 1988, and won her first title against Chanda Rubin in Scottsdale in 1991. She made her first Fed Cup appearance in 1988, with a 1–2 loss against Austria. In 1997, she married Serge Haubourdin. Throughout her career, she won seven singles and four doubles titles.

She participated three times in the Olympics (in 1992, 1996 and 2000) - at the 1992 Games in Barcelona she reached the quarterfinals in singles. Her best result in the Grand Slam tournaments is reaching the quarterfinals at the 1997 Australian Open after defeating then world No. 3, Conchita Martínez. Her highest spot on the WTA rankings is the 16th place, which she reached in November 1997. In the doubles she reached, together with Miriam Oremans, the semi-finals of 1997 Wimbledon.

In February 2007, she was appointed captain of Belgium's Fed Cup squad in replacement of Carl Maes, leading the team to a semifinal in 2011. That year, she was replaced herself in October 2011 by Ann Devries.

Awards
Appelmans was elected as the Belgian Sportswoman of the year 1990 & 1991. She was nominated for the Karen Krantzcke Sportsmanship Award in 1994 & 1995.

title: Sabine Appelmans


text:
User:Dalimothra

Dalimothra is the combo of the surrealist artist, Salvador Dali, and the beloved Godzilla rival, Mothra. Obviously, something must be totally wrong here.

title: User:Dalimothra


text:
Chris Burke (actor)

Christopher Joseph Burke (born August 26, 1965) is an American actor. He has become best known for his character Charles "Corky" Thatcher on the television series Life Goes On.

Early years
Burke is the youngest of four children of Marian Burke, a retired trade-show manager, and Frank Burke, a retired NYPD inspector. Burke was born with Down syndrome at a time when little was known about the disorder, and his parents were told to institutionalize him. Instead, they decided to raise him at home and nurture his talents with the help of his siblings. From a young age, Burke enjoyed watching TV and movies and wanted to be on television. He was encouraged by his supportive family to follow his career objectives no matter how unconventional they seemed, especially for a young man with Down syndrome.

In the early 1970s, American public schools were not yet mainstreaming students with disabilities into general education classes. Burke attended the Kennedy Child Study Center in New York City, from age five until graduating shortly before his eighth birthday. At that time there were no suitable private education programs for students with disabilities in the area, so, in the fall of 1973, Burke was sent to board at the Cardinal Cushing School and Training Center in Hanover, Massachusetts. In 1978, Burke transferred to the Don Guanella School in Springfield, Pennsylvania, to be closer to his brother, J.R., who lived close by. Burke graduated from Don Guanella in 1986. After graduation, he worked as an elevator operator and did volunteer work for programs for students with disabilities at New York City's Public School 138.

Burke's first acting performance was in a production of The Emperor's New Clothes at the Cardinal Cushing School. His dramatic reading made quite an impression on the audience as well as Hollywood producer Robert Evans, who happened to be in the theatre at the time. This role inspired Burke to participate in a talent show after he transferred to Don Guanella, in which he acted as a zombie in a reenactment of Michael Jackson's "Thriller" video. He continued to hone his talent by attending night classes, going to auditions, writing scripts, and voraciously reading books about his favorite actors.

Early acting roles and Life Goes On
Burke got his first professional acting job in 1987 in the ABC TV movie Desperate. Network executives at ABC were impressed by his performance in Desperate and created Life Goes On with Burke's character, Charles "Corky" Thatcher, as the main role. Corky was the first character in a network television series with Down syndrome. Burke's revolutionary role conveyed a realistic portrayal of people with Down syndrome and changed the way audiences viewed people with disabilities. Life Goes On propelled Burke into fame and wide recognition. The series ran from 1989 to 1993.

Later acting roles
Since Life Goes On, Burke has made appearances on numerous TV shows and movies, most notably co-starring with JoBeth Williams in the NBC Movie of the Week Jonathan: The Boy Nobody Wanted.

Some of his TV show and movie appearances include:
 * Jonathan: The Boy Nobody Wanted, TV movie, 1992
 * North and South, Book III: Heaven & Hell, miniseries, 1994
 * The Commish TV series, 1994
 * Promised Land TV series, 1997
 * Touched by an Angel recurring as Taylor, an angel who has Down syndrome, 1997
 * The Division, 2002
 * ER, 2002

Awards

 * Golden Globe Award Nominee, Best Actor in a Supporting Role in a Series, Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for TV, 1990
 * Golden Apple Awards Nominee, 1990
 * Ten Outstanding Young Americans, 1991
 * National Rehabilitation Hospital Honoree, 1993
 * Just One Break (JOB) Ability First Award, 1995
 * Hall of Honor, AHRC, 1999

Down syndrome advocacy
Burke has been the Goodwill Ambassador for the National Down Syndrome Society since 1994. He has starred in the organization's acclaimed public service announcements, including Tracey Ullman in 1999 and, more recently, for the "My Great Story" public awareness campaign with actor John C. McGinley and TV hosts Meredith Vieira and Nancy O'Dell. As a Goodwill Ambassador, he travels the country attending Buddy Walks, making public appearances, speaking with the press and greeting fans. When he is not on the road, Burke is a member of the National Down Syndrome Society's staff, working in their New York City office.

Burke has delivered inspirational speeches around the world and continues to speak at schools, seminars, conferences and non-profit organizations. From 1994 to 2014 he also toured the U.S. with his three piece musical group, Chris Burke with Joe and John DeMasi, for which he was the singer. Burke met his bandmates, twin brothers Joe and John DeMasi, when they were music counselors at the town of Hempstead, New York's ANCHOR program for individuals with disabilities, when Burke was a teenager. The group released four albums. Lollipops and Love Songs was released in 1993. In 1994, they signed a record deal with BMGKidz and released Singer with the Band. This was followed up by the release of Forever Friends, which won a Parents Choice Gold Seal for Excellence Award, and A World of Kindness in 1998. They also produced a two-episode DVD for children called The Forever Friends Show and have appeared on television performing their signature song, "Celebrate."

In 1991, Burke co-wrote his autobiography, A Special Kind of Hero, with Jo Beth McDaniel. From 1994 to 2005, he was the editor-in-chief of News 'n Views and UpBeat, publications written by and for people with Down syndrome, and in 2009, he contributed to the National Down Syndrome Society's My Great Story campaign by writing his story, "Great Expectations".

title: Chris Burke (actor)


text:
Battle of Champion Hill

The Battle of Champion Hill (aka Champion's Hill) of May 16, 1863, was the pivotal battle in the Vicksburg Campaign of the American Civil War (1861–1865). Union Army commander Major General Ulysses S. Grant and the Army of the Tennessee pursued the retreating Confederate States Army under Lieutenant General John C. Pemberton and defeated it twenty miles to the east of Vicksburg, Mississippi, leading inevitably to the Siege of Vicksburg and surrender. The battle is also known as Baker's Creek.

Sidney S. Champion, born in Guilford County, North Carolina, in 1824, came to Mississippi and settled on a large tract of land located between Bolton and Edwards. Captain Champion was a seasoned Confederate soldier long before the outbreak of the Battle of Champion Hill. The night of May 15 found Captain Champion within range of the battle site and serving as a vital member of General Pemberton's staff.

Background
Following the Union occupation of Jackson, Mississippi, on May 14, both Confederate and Union forces made plans for future operations. General Joseph E. Johnston, commanding all Confederate forces in Mississippi, retreated with most of his army up the Canton Road. However, he ordered Lieutenant General John C. Pemberton, commanding three divisions totaling about 23,000 men, to leave Edwards Station and attack the Union troops at Clinton. Pemberton and his generals felt that Johnston's plan was likely to result in disaster and decided instead to attack the Union supply trains moving from Grand Gulf to Raymond. On May 16, however, Pemberton received another message from Johnston repeating his former orders. Pemberton had already started after the supply trains and was on the Raymond-Edwards Road, with his rear at a crossroads one-third mile south of the crest of Champion Hill. When he obediently ordered a countermarch, his rear, including his supply wagons, had become the vanguard of his attack.

Battle
At around 7:00 am on May 16, Union forces engaged the Confederates and the Battle of Champion Hill began. Pemberton's force formed into a three-mile (5 km)-long defensive line that ran southwest to northeast along a crest of a ridge overlooking Jackson Creek. Grant wrote in his Personal Memoirs, "... where Pemberton had chosen his position to receive us, whether taken by accident or design, was well selected. It is one of the highest points in that section, and commanded all the ground in the range."

Pemberton was unaware that one of the three Union columns was moving along the Jackson Road against his unprotected left flank on Champion Hill. Pemberton posted Brigadier General Stephen D. Lee's Alabama brigade on Champion Hill where they could watch for a Union column reportedly moving on the crossroads. Lee soon spotted the Union troops and they in turn saw him. If the enemy force was not stopped, it would cut the Confederates off from their Vicksburg base. Pemberton was warned of the Union movement and sent troops to defend his left flank. Union forces at the Champion House moved into action and their artillery began firing.

When Grant arrived at Champion Hill at about 10:00 a.m., he ordered an attack to begin. John A. McClernand's corps attacked on the left and James B. McPherson's on the right. William T. Sherman's corps was well behind the others, departing from Jackson. By 11:30 a.m., the Union forces had reached the Confederate's main line. At 1:00 p.m., they took the crest, the troops from Carter L. Stevenson's division retiring in disorder. McPherson's corps swept forward, capturing the crossroads and closing the Jackson Road escape route. The division of John S. Bowen counterattacked in support of Stevenson, pushing the Union troops back beyond the Champion Hill crest before their surge was halted. However, they were too few to hold the position. Pemberton directed William W. Loring to send forces from the southern area of the line, where they were only lightly engaged with McClernand's ineffective attack, to reinforce the hill. However, Loring refused to budge, citing a strong Union presence to his front.

Grant now counterattacked, committing his forces that had just arrived from Clinton by way of Bolton. Pemberton's men could not resist this assault, and he ordered them to use the one escape route still open, the Raymond Road crossing of Bakers Creek. By now, Loring had decided to obey Pemberton's order and was marching toward the fighting by a circuitous route that kept them out of action. Brigadier General Lloyd Tilghman's brigade formed the rearguard and held at all costs, including the death of Tilghman, killed by artillery fire. Late in the afternoon, Grant's troops seized the Bakers Creek Bridge, and by midnight they had occupied Edwards. The Confederates fell back to a defensive position at the Big Black River in front of Vicksburg. The Battle of Big Black River Bridge the next day would be the final chance for Pemberton to escape.

Aftermath
Champion Hill was a bloody and decisive Union victory. In his Personal Memoirs, Grant observed, "While a battle is raging, one can see his enemy mowed down by the thousand, or the ten thousand, with great composure; but after the battle these scenes are distressing, and one is naturally disposed to alleviate the sufferings of an enemy as a friend."

Grant criticized the lack of fighting spirit of McClernand, a rival for Union Army leadership, because he had not killed or captured Pemberton's entire force. McClernand's casualties were low on the Union left flank (south); McPherson's on the right constituted the bulk of the Union losses, about 2,500. The Confederates suffered about 3,800 casualties. According to diarist William Eddington, so many Confederate horses had been killed, Union soldiers could not easily approach the abandoned batteries; after the Battle of Big Black River Bridge, Union horses were sent back to recover them. The Confederates' effective loss included most of Loring's division, which had marched off on its own to join Joseph E. Johnston in Jackson.

Battlefield preservation
An area of 4,000 acre was listed as the Champion Hill Battlefield on the National Register of Historic Places in 1971. The listing covered 4000 acre including three contributing buildings, one contributing site, and one contributing object. It was further designated a National Historic Landmark District in 1977. It is located about 3 miles southwest of Bolton, Mississippi.

Large sections of the battlefield remain well preserved, including original roads, as evidenced by a view of the field from approximately the site of the Davis sketch. The map reference refers to the small stone historical marker at the corner of Billy Fields Road and DJ Johnson road, very central in the field.

As of October 2012, residential development had encroached on limited parts of the field, near the center, along DJ Johnson Road. Thousands of acres of the core battlefield are privately owned, listed as II.1. Class A (opportunity for comprehensive preservation, good integrity, low threat) by the Civil War Sites Advisory Commission. Discontinuous portions of the battlefield, totaling over 800 acres, are owned by the State of Mississippi. These properties are being held for possible future inclusion in Vicksburg National Military Park. The American Battlefield Trust and its partners have been able to protect more than 1222 acre of the battlefield through conservation easements and land purchases from 2003 through mid-2023. In October 2007, Sid Champion, together with three family members who co-own the land, worked with the trust to craft a unique easement to protect 147 acre of the family farm comprising a key part of the field. The 795 acres preserved by the trust and its partners at Champion Hill through mid-2018 includes a 319-acre tract acquired for $1.28 million and announced in May 2017.

The Coker House stands adjacent to a south portion of the Champion Hill Battlefield. It was used as a hospital by Union forces and upon departing, the Yankees extensively looted both the house and the plantation stores. Bullet holes in the front door and jamb and cannonball holes on the west side of the Coker House remained as evidence of the battle. In 1985, the historic property was donated to the Jackson Civil War Roundtable, which later deeded it to the Mississippi Department of Archives and History. As of 2005 the house was in ruins, but it has since been rebuilt using the original materials as much as possible, as it had deteriorated too far to be restored. Historical markers at the house detail the battle and the history of the house.

Hiawatha (Yeiser House) is one of only a few structures from the battlefield that has survived. In 2006, it was moved 11 miles east to Raymond, Mississippi, and restored by Peggy and Bobby DeLaughter. The house was used as a hospital during the battle and is where Confederate general Lloyd Tilghman was brought after being fatally wounded.

Memoirs and primary sources

 * U.S. War Department, The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies. Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1880–1901.

title: Battle of Champion Hill


text:
Ace Trucking Co.

Ace Trucking Co. is a comedy science fiction series that featured in the comic 2000 AD from 1981 to 1986. Created by writers John Wagner and Alan Grant and artist Massimo Belardinelli, it followed the misadventures of a space trucking company headed by Ace Garp, a pointy-headed alien who spoke in a kind of futuristic CB radio slang. The title was lifted from Ace Trucking Company, a 1970s improvisational comedy group whose membership had included Fred Willard, Patti Deutsch, Michael Mislove, George Memmoli, and Bill Saluga.

Plot
Ace was the skipper of the cargo spaceship Speedo Ghost, for much of the series the Ace Trucking Co.'s only ship. His crew included his huge 'biffo' (both bodyguard and security) GBH, who believed himself to be dead, Feek the Freek, a skeletal being who acted as the ship's engineer, and the sarcastic ship's computer Ghost. Joining the crew later in the run was Chiefy the Pig-Rat, a small rodent-like creature that became Feek's best friend and missed no opportunity to insult Ace.

In later stories, the crew was also joined by a duplicate of Ace himself. The reason for this is that, tired of the series, the creators killed off Ace by having him believe that he was suffering a fatal disease, causing him to commit suicide by flying into a star. However, the popularity of the series with 2000AD's readers caused it to be revived, the explanation being that Ace passed through a dimensional rift in the star, and ended up being discovered by his counterpart in another universe, but not before a brief detour in the offices of Tharg the Mighty in a drawer filled with other characters that had been killed off over time. Technically, the second Ace is the 'real' one from the earlier stories.

Other recurring characters were Jago Kain, the human boss of Ace's business rival Yellow Line, Cap'n Evil Blood, a space pirate who was always trying to kill Garp, Ace-hating officers Kroxley and Zagger of the Galactic Police and Fatty Arkl, a rotund alien who ended up as the skipper of Ace's second ship (Old Peart The Third).

The main artist for the series' run was Massimo Belardinelli, although Ian Gibson and Giolitti also contributed. As mentioned above, Grant and Wagner became tired of writing the series and made several attempts to end it (one series ended with the entire crew in prison), but reader demand kept bringing it back. The later stories show clear signs of the writers' annoyance at having to keep going on a series they had lost interest in - Ace started out as a smart and resourceful character, but ended up a greedy, dim-witted buffoon disliked even by his own crew. The character's official final story "The Garpetbagger" ended with his companions GBH and Feek the Freek ordering Ace to sell up and move on, quipping that he "outlived his welcome a long time ago".

In 1988, a one-off mini-story was produced for a 2000AD annual which featured the original Ace returning to his own universe only to find that Feek has taken over the business and GBH has become his second in command. Ace loses his temper and vandalises a bar owned by Feek which lands him in prison, vowing to gain revenge at some point "in the near future". Despite this, Ace Trucking Co would not make a reappearance in 2000AD until 2015, when the eight-page strip Star's Truck, by Eddie Robson and Nick Dyer, was published in that year's Sci-Fi Special.

Publication

 * Ace Trucking Co. (by Alan Grant/John Wagner, with art by Massimo Belardinelli, unless noted):
 * The Complete Ace Trucking Co. Volume 1 (320 pages ISBN 1-905437-77-3) collects:
 * "The Kleggs" (in 2000 AD #232-236, 1981)
 * "Hell's Pocket" (art by Ian Gibson, in 2000 AD #239-243, 1981. Bellardinelli is incorrectly credited with the art in Prog 241 )
 * "Lugjack" (in 2000 AD #244-250, 1982)
 * "The Great Mush Rush" (in 2000 AD #251-258, 1982)
 * "The Ughbug Bloos" (in 2000 AD #259, 1982)
 * "Last Lug To Abbo Dabbo" (in 2000 AD #260-267, 1982)
 * "Joobaloo" (in 2000 AD #268-272, 1982)
 * "Too Many Bams" (in 2000 AD #273-278, 1982)
 * "The Kloistar Run" (in 2000 AD #279-285, 1982)
 * "Stoop Coop Soup" (in 2000 AD #288-293, 1982)
 * The Complete Ace Trucking Co. Volume 2 (336 pages ISBN 1-905437-98-6) collects:
 * "Bamfeezled" (2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 1982)
 * "On The Dangle" (in 2000 AD #378-386, 1984. Carlos Ezquerra is incorrectly credited with the art in Prog 380 )
 * "Strike!" (in 2000 AD #387-390 and 392–400, 1984-1985 Art by Giolitti progs 394–395)
 * "The Croakside Trip" (in 2000 AD #428-433, 1985)
 * "Stowaway Lugjacker" (in 2000 AD Annual 1986, 1985)
 * "Whatever Happened to Ace Garp?" (in 2000 AD #451, 1986)
 * "The Doppelgarp" (in 2000 AD #452-472, 1986)
 * "The Garpetbaggers" (in 2000 AD #475-483 and 485–498, 1986)
 * "The Homecoming" (in 2000 AD Annual 1989, 1988)
 * Uncollected:
 * "Star's Truck" (written by Eddie Robson with art by Nick Dyer, in 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2015)
 * "The Banned Brand Stand" (written by Eddie Robson with art by Nigel Dobbyn, in 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2016)
 * "The Festive Flip-Flop!" (written by Eddie Robson with art by Nigel Dobbyn, in 2000 AD #2011, 2016)
 * "Muggo's Moon" (written by Eddie Robson with art by Nigel Dobbyn, in 2000 AD #2061, 2016)
 * "Untrenched" (written by Karl Stock with art by Nick Dyer, in 2000 AD #2312, 2022)

title: Ace Trucking Co.


text: User talk:209.168.152.178

title: User talk:209.168.152.178


text:
Jones Memorial Library

Jones Memorial Library may refer to:

 * Jones Memorial Library (Lynchburg, Virginia), United States
 * B.F. Jones Memorial Library, Aliquippa, Pennsylvania, United States

title: Jones Memorial Library


text:
Gerald Flood

Gerald Robert Flood (21 April 1927 – 12 April 1989) was a British actor of stage and television.

Early life
Flood was born in Portsmouth, Hampshire, but lived for most of his life in Farnham, Surrey, where he regularly appeared on stage at the Castle Theatre. He served as a wireless operator in the RAF during World War II, and worked as a filing clerk before becoming an actor. He joined the Farnham Repertory Company after the war.

Career
Gerald Flood's first television starring roles were in the popular ABC science-fiction television serials Pathfinders in Space, Pathfinders to Mars and Pathfinders to Venus, 1960–1961, as journalist Conway Henderson; these were follow-up sequels to Target Luna. This was followed in 1962–1963 by the series City Beneath the Sea and its sequel, Secret Beneath the Sea, when he played the role of Mark Bannerman.

He came to national prominence whilst starring alongside Patrick Allen and Sam Kydd in the Morocco-based police series, Crane, which ran from 1963 to 1965 on ITV. In this he played the character of police chief Colonel Sharif Mahmoud.

Theatre
In 1957 he performed in the pantomime Mother Goose at the Connaught Theatre in Worthing, Sussex, England with Douglas Byng, Eve Lister, Ann Lancaster, Rosalie Ashley, Reg Thompson, The Hedley Ward Trio, and Roland Curram in the cast. Guy Vaesen and Thurza Rogers were directors.

From 1959 to 1960 he acted in Graham Greene's play, The Complaisant Lover at the Globe Theatre in London, England with Ralph Richardson, Paul Scofield, Phyllis Calvert, Lockwood West, Helen Lowry, Polly Adams, Hugh Janes and Oliver Burt in the cast. John Gielgud was director.

In June 1967 Flood took over from Donald Sinden the role of Robert Danvers in the hit comedy There's a Girl in My Soup, at The Globe (now Gielgud) Theatre in London's West End, which he played until December 1968. He reprised the role during a UK tour of the play in 1972/73, including Wolverhampton, Leeds and Glasgow amongst other venues, and again at the Bristol Hippodrome in June 1976. In total he played the role of Robert Danvers more than 650 times.

In 1971 he played the role of Tom Hillyer in the Lesley Storm comedy Look, No Hands! at the Fortune Theatre in London's West End.

In 1974 he acted in JB Priestley's play, Dangerous Corner, at the Yvonne Arnaud Theatre in Guildford, Surrey, England with Rachel Gurney, Barbara Jefford, and Christopher Good in the cast.

In 1977 he acted in She Stoops to Conquer at the 7 Arts Theatre, Salisbury (now Harare), Rhodesia. Co-Producer and actor David Nicholas Wilkinson set this in a pioneer Rhodesia setting, and it was first time black actors performed in the theatre in that country. Most of their scenes were with Flood who encouraged them to improvise. During the run, as a thank you Flood took these actors to a night club to see singer Kiki Dee perform. Although there was no apartheid in Rhodesia the management asked the black actors to leave. Flood would not tolerate this and persuaded the entire audience to leave until the actors were allowed back in. The management changed their mind.

In 1981 he acted in David Storey's play, Early Days, in a British National Theatre production at the Comedy Theatre in London, England with Ralph Richardson, Sheila Ballantine, and Marty Cruickshank in the cast. Lindsay Anderson was director.

In 1982 he acted in the play Public Relations, co-starring Richard Coleman.

In 1983 he acted in the play Underground at the Theatre Royal, York.

In 1985 he acted in the play The Cabinet Mole at the Richmond Theatre in Richmond, London with Amanda Barrie, Bruce Montague and Derek Bond in the cast.

Doctor Who
Flood's appeared in the BBC science fiction series Doctor Who as the voice of the robot companion Kamelion in two serials — The King's Demons and Planet of Fire as well as a brief scene in the regeneration serial The Caves of Androzani. Originally, the character was to have been featured more heavily in other serials but his scenes were either edited out for timing reasons or dropped due to the difficulty in operating the Kamelion prop.

Other work
Flood also appeared in a number of other television roles over the years. These included the ITC series The Champions, Strange Report and Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased). Flood starred as spy Peregrine Smith in The Rat Catchers (1967). He portrayed Sir Richard Flashman in the BBC's popular 1971 television serial Tom Brown's Schooldays and was also in Bachelor Father. Flood also appeared in Steptoe and Son, Raffles, Crown Court (TV series) ('Murder Most Foul' episode), Two in Clover, 'The Madras House and Comedy Playhouse.

Death
During his later years, Flood was an alcoholic. The financial difficulties associated with this reduced him to living with his wife in a small flat in Aldershot. He died from a heart attack on 12 April 1989, nine days before his 62nd birthday.

Family
Toby Flood, the English international rugby union player, is Flood's paternal grandson.

Train crash
Gerald Flood was on the sleeper train which came off the rails at Morpeth, Northumberland on 24 June 1984. He was interviewed by BBC News afterwards.

Filmography
His film credits included Smokescreen (1964), Patton (1970), and Frightmare (1974).

title: Gerald Flood


text:
Alive 'N Kickin'

Alive 'N Kickin' is an American pop group formed in Brooklyn, New York. Led by singers Pepe Cardona and Sandy Toder, they are best known for their 1970 hit "Tighter, Tighter", which peaked at number seven on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart.

The group's initial run lasted from 1968 to 1971, during which they didn't achieve success outside of "Tighter, Tighter", making them a one-hit wonder. In 1976, most of the original lineup reformed, and they've continued to perform to the present day, with various member changes. They have released one studio album, 1970's Alive 'N Kickin'.

Formation: 1968
The six original members formed the band when they were teenagers in 1968, in guitarist Dave Shearer's basement. The group also included Sandy Toder and Pepe Cardona on vocals, Bruce Sudano and Jeff Miller on keyboards, and Woody Wilson on bass. They gained some popularity when they began recording for Tommy James on the label he was signed to, Roulette Records.

"Tighter, Tighter": 1970
In early 1970, the band began recording sessions for their upcoming, self-titled studio album, which came out in January. A song written and produced by Tommy James and Bob King, and arranged by Jimmy Wisner, was to be recorded, and although James originally considered having his friends do this song—now known as "Crystal Blue Persuasion"—he liked it so much he decided to keep it for himself. As a gesture of friendship to the group, he wrote "Tighter, Tighter" for them. After recording the track, the group replaced Vito Albano (drums, percussion) and Shearer with Ronny Pell and Johnny Parisio. With the new lineup, "Tighter, Tighter" was released.

The song came out in May 1970 and stayed on the US chart for 16 weeks. It sold over one million copies and received a Gold disc, awarded by the R.I.A.A.

Two singles were almost immediately released to ride on the good fortune of the hit song, but after a lack of success with "Just Let It Come" and "London Bridge", and after increasing difficulties with their producer Morris Levy and the label's insistence on trying to make more singles so quickly, the band quietly broke up by early 1972.

Reunion: 1976
Most of the group reunited in 1976, with a lineup that included Cardona, Wilson (this time on lead guitar), Shearer, Albano, and new bassist Richie Incorvaia. They played from the mid-1970s until the late 1980s. Since then, the band's lineup changed numerous times, though Cardona and Parisio remained a constant presence. Wilson, Albano, and Shearer left, and Incorvaia died.

Later years
Pepe Cardona was diagnosed with stage-3 pancreatic cancer in August 2019. The tumor was removed in April 2020, but it had spread to his stomach. He died on July 28, 2020, aged 72.

Discography
Albums

Singles

title: Alive 'N Kickin'


text: User talk:65.13.7.4

title: User talk:65.13.7.4


text:
Alive and Kicking

Alive and Kicking may refer to:

Business

 * Alive & Kicking (social enterprise), an African social enterprise
 * "Alive and kicking", a 1986–1997 advertising campaign for McEwan's Lager
 * Alive and Kicking, Inc., a division of Cartoon Network Studios

Film, theatre and television

 * Alive and Kicking (1959 film), a British comedy directed by Cyril Frankel
 * Alive and Kicking, US title of the British 1996 drama Indian Summer, directed by Nancy Meckler
 * Alive and Kicking (2016 film), American documentary film about swing dancing, produced and directed by Susan Glatzer
 * Alive and Kicking (musical), a 1950 Broadway musical revue
 * Alive and Kicking (TV drama), a 1991 UK TV drama, starring Lenny Henry and Robbie Coltrane, produced for the anthology series Screen One
 * Alive and Kicking (TV series), a 2021 Spanish television series (original title: Los espabilados)

Music

 * Alive 'N Kickin' or Alive and Kicking, U.S.-American pop group
 * Alive & Kicking (Delfonics album), 1974
 * Alive & Kicking (Nana Mizuki album), 2004
 * Alive & Kicking (Nazareth album), 2003
 * Alive & Kicking (Shaan album), 1992
 * Alive and Kickin' (album), a 2006 album by Fats Domino
 * "Alive and Kicking" (song), a 1985 song by Simple Minds
 * "Alive and Kickin, a song by Mr.Big from Lean into It
 * "Alive and Kicking", a song by Nonpoint from To the Pain

Other media

 * Raving Rabbids: Alive & Kicking, a 2011 video game in the Raving Rabbids franchise
 * Alive and Kicking, a 1994 novel by Michael Graubart Levin
 * Alive & Kicking, a 1996 book by Rolf Benirschke
 * Alive and Kicking: My Journey Through Football, Addiction and Life, a 2011 memoir by Chester Marcol

title: Alive and Kicking


text:
Talk:Marek Belka

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Marek Belka. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090205183638/http://www.un.org/sg/senstaff_details.asp?smgID=3 to http://www.un.org/sg/senstaff_details.asp?smgID=3
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160413051238/http://www1.hw.ac.uk/annual-review/2006/people_awards.html to http://www1.hw.ac.uk/annual-review/2006/people_awards.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:47, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Marek Belka. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110522035342/http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,7941888,Komorowski__Marek_Belka_kandydatem_na_prezesa_NBP.html to http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,7941888,Komorowski__Marek_Belka_kandydatem_na_prezesa_NBP.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:18, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Marek Belka. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100613094605/http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/2182902,11,belka_szefem_nbp_spor_w_koalicji,item.html to http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/2182902,11,belka_szefem_nbp_spor_w_koalicji,item.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 21:10, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marek Belka


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nizoral

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was merge and redirect. ugen 64 20:36, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nizoral
The page is non-encyclopedic: it is merely directions (and unofficial ones, at that) for using a single brand of anti-dandruff shampoo. In the doubtful case that some of this material warrants inclusion, it should be rolled into shampoo or dandruff. -- Kaszeta 18:20, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC) *Keep per Klonimus and Kappa. - Lucky 6.9 05:11, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't be sure, but I think I used it once. Anyway, remove ad-speak and merge with shampoo or dandruff. Both seem equally valid to merge too. Mgm|(talk) 18:44, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with dandruff after getting rid of the "apply vacuum cleaner on head" part. -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 00:28, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Dandruff Ketoconazole. Megan1967 07:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Nizoral used to be available by perscription only. All perscription drugs are notable. Nizoral is also notable for being the first anti-fungal anti-dandruff shampoo. Previous generations of AD shampoo's operated on the assumption that dandruff is caused by some sort of psoriasis-type process, not due to skin surface yeasts. All in all a very notable shampoo worthy of it's own article. Klonimus 06:50, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, per Klonimus, but remove the "how-to"/original research. Kappa 08:09, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC) merge or keep. Kappa 19:23, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as above. Grue 19:28, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Turn it back to a redir to the generic name Ketoconazole, like was done here, which is also a better article. Niteowlneils 04:34, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with Niteowlneils after he pointed this out on my talk page. Changing vote to merge any useful info and redirect back to the Ketoconazole article. - Lucky 6.9 06:48, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to ketoconazole, mention 2% shampoo in that article, and delete illegal advice to do "despite what the bottle says". As for the vacuum cleaner: LOL. JFW | T@lk  09:15, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nizoral


text:
Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 2

Email
several ppl come here, left their question together with their email and they wait from us to send them the answer in their mailbox. I would prefer if they could come back in RD after some hours or days and check for the answer by themselves. Do you think we should write something at the top of RD like "It would be better not to give ur email and come back after a few hours or days to check for answers" ? Optim 17:03, 1 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Lots of the questions with email addresses are from very naive users. I don't think that would work for them. We should suggest it as a better thing to do, but expect to bear with the email thing. On the other hand, if you are answering someone's question who did this, it's probably best to answer on the page and add to your remark the fact that you are emailing as well. -- Jmabel 00:11, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Zap moving pages
Since Zap's been moving things around, Reference desk has been moved to Ask Wikipedians... I don't really mind the new name all that much, but we should be all going through consensus decisions first, so you can express views on a possible move to a new name here. Dysprosia 11:27, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I like the current name just fine. I think it adds a touch of class.  Plus most people arriving here with a question won't know what a "Wikipedian" is, or why we're worthy of being asked.  Reference desk is good. Jwrosenzweig 18:02, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

'Post a question' link
I made the 'Post a question' link more prominent at the top of the page, as it was previously easy to skip past it. I think it's slightly more usable this way, but it's easy to change back if anyone disagrees. Chopchopwhitey 03:05, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Appropriateness of new questions going to the bottom
Do you think it's appropriate for new questions to go to the bottom when actually they need more visibility?
 * -- Sundar 05:48, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, it needs to be consistent is the most important thing. You can easily scroll to the bottom to find new questions, and general convention is that discussions get added to the bottom of pages. This makes sense, given that English is generally read left-to-right top-to-bottom (i.e. it feels natural for time to progress as you go down the page), and it's even enshrined in the software, in that there is a feature for appending a new section to the page. It also avoids defining where the "top" is (i.e. where the intro ends and the questions should begin), since there is nothing beyond the bottom of the page (well, there's a footer, but you can't interact with that).

 * So in short: yes. - IMSoP 15:48, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * In short, Thanks. ;) -- Sundar 12:18, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

Guardian story about finding information with Google.
The Guardian has a story comparing Google's speed of retrieving information against other, more traditional, research methods. I thought it'd be fun to see how Wikipedia compared. (Please note was absent in the following)

 * 1) List the titles of all the books written by Piers Morgan, editor of the Daily Mirror
 * 2) *This information was absent.
 * 3) Where and when did Margaret Thatcher say: "There's no such thing as society"?
 * 4) *This information was absent, though I thought Wikiquote would be a more reasonable place to expect to find it (also absent) (I put it in the wikipedia article Mark Richards).
 * 5) Who is the vice chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on back care?
 * 6) *This search came up blank. The answer is Janet Dean. Again, the information was absent.
 * 7) What proportion of the Slovenian railway system is electrified?
 * 8) *Transportation in Slovenia
 * 9) What did Sophie and Edward Wessex do on Tuesday?
 * 10) *Wikipedia isn't an appointments diary, so it isn't reasonable to expect to find this information.
 * 11) What was unusual about the British gold medal victory in the 400m in the 1908 Olympics in London?
 * 12) *1908 Summer Olympics

Jim Regan 21:57, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, you can't have it all. Interesting conversation piece, though. -- Itai 11:24, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I thought so. That's why I posted it instead of just adding the missing information :) -- Jim Regan 19:31, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Ack, I hate inline replies :-P I added a note to the Margaret Thatcher article referring to the wikiquote page--the full quote (and therefore context) of the quote is given there. This quote was often taken out of context (though arguably more apropriate in that form). -- Jim Regan 19:41, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Seems odd that neither WP nor WikiQuote lists her St. Francis of Assisi quote on the 10 Downing Street doorstep in 1979... anyone have the full citation? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 19:49, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Is that the where there was hope, may we bring massive unemployment? I think it was slightly different to that, but is that the one you mean? ;o) --bodnotbod 20:12, May 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * You got it almost exactly right: "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope." Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 20:21, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The quote is "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope." I've added it to Wikiquote, as well as the version attributed to St. Francis.

 * As for mass unemployment, well "We back the workers, not the shirkers" :) (Drat, drat and double drat! Need to find a source for that now!)

 * And I'm not updating this for another edit conflict! -- Jim Regan 20:23, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

"Please check back?"
I'm wondering if there should be an instruction to people who post questions like "Please check back here for answers in the next couple days" or something. I just happened to notice one question where someone left an e-mail address, and I'm worried he didn't realize that he should check back here for an answer. —siro χ o 15:26, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)

Reference desk cleanup policy
Well this is probably the single largest page I've seen on WP as of yet. I'm currently on an ISDN line here, and I can tell you it hurts! Is it really necessary to keep entries several week old? Since we have a proper archive, why not set a sharp policy. I propose archiving any question where the latest entry is a minimum of 5 days old. -- Solitude 20:20, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * It's only half the size of Village pump, and that page is cleaned out weekly (or faster). I'm not much bothered by the load time; I generally have a 28k connection but find these pages tolerable.

 * We should at least keep unanswered questions for two weeks, since some questions are not answered until this much time has passed. From what I've seen, further comments sometimes have a delay between one and two weeks.  Five days is too short.  --η[[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ] 20:58, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Quick info about citing Wikipedia
Lots of people come over here asking about how they should cite Wikipedia on their essays and such. So, I suggest we here (and in Help Desk as well) something like the following, somewhere in the top of the page :

 * '''If you desire to know how to cite Wikipedia, see Citing Wikipedia

But, of course, with some changes for clarification (I'm not particulary good at that myself). I think that would help some of these users. — Kieff | Talk 04:59, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * I think half the problem is some people don't know the word "cite" (or at least don't recognize it without more context). I added the text "how to reference W in a research paper or bibliography" on the RD header template, and the number of questions has dropped quite a lot.  Sad but true....  Catherine\talk 04:34, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Anencephaly
Someone asked on Requested articles
 * I would like to find out who doscovered Anencephaly and when. I need this information for a biology report. If you can post it, it will help a lot. Thanks!

The question concerns Science (either Anatomy or Medicine), rather than Social sciences and humanities, and that distinction is worth learning. But there is no answer to the question as you pose it. Anencephaly is a condition that has no doubt been occuring in humans (and proto-humans) throughout our evolution as a species; it must have been independently observed by many midwives and shamans, and probably even independently identified many times as something distinguishable from other birth defects. Understanding of it in other than magical terms has surely been a process of too many small steps to identify, in general understanding of the world, and eventually in the field of embryology. WP articles linked in this response, including cephalic disorder, may be of interest to you. --Jerzy(t) 01:48, 2004 Oct 20 (UTC)

Though there is an interesting article that points out that anencephalics are lacking in the archeological record ,, and another that points out that one scientist who was instrumental in the (relatively recent) beginnings of teratology and studied and classified anencephalics was Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire. You will find other articles at the PubMed index by searching various other combinations of "anotocephaly" "anencephaly" "teratology" "history" and "paleopathology". -- Nunh-huh 03:29, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Mental age
How about the old standard: insisting they move out of the house and get a job? Alteripse 19:01, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Eequor, really, you seem to have a problem with divergent opinions (or at least mine). What I suggested is the solution which would be proposed to the described problem by a large segment of the grown-up population of the world. Are you engaging in age discrimination? Part of solving a problem is formulating it in various ways to see what is suggested. You admit to having no practical suggestion, but you delete the one most grown-ups would offer? The problem described a person in twenties who thinks he is a teenager (or perhaps thinks like it). What do you think the person meant? Teenagers don't act like children with Asperger's (most of the time). One prominent characteristic that distinguishes teenagers from adults is a sense of entitlement, because their needs have been provided by their parents. And some of them have the self-absorbed social imcompetence that might make someone say, "it's sort of like autism, but not really..." Part of growing up is understanding that if you wait for the world to offer you a living, you won't get much. I can imagine a distressed mother of a non-functioning twenty-five year old describing him exactly that way. Maybe a frustrated girlfriend wondering why her boyfriend is sponging off of her? The problem person is probably male, wouldn't you agree? If it's his mother, the formulation of the question contains the explanation of why the person is that way, don't you think? If so, I wrapped it up rather neatly, didn't I? Why don't you tell us what you imagine the situation is behind the question? Or least an equally probable scenario? I'll bet if we took a poll, quite a few other editors would see my scenario as a relatively probable one. Persuade me otherwise, or don't censor constructive suggestions please. Alteripse 01:06, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Mainly, you have made two assumptions which were not even alluded to by the questioner, and thus possibly not relevant at all. Namely, that the particular individual lives with their parents and is unemployed.  It is possible that either of these would be interpreted as rude or hostile, and so they should be expressed politely and explicitly, if at all.

 * As for your latter questions, I would prefer to not speculate on what their particular situation might be. If you are concerned in knowing the specifics, you should probably ask first.  --η [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ ] 01:50, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

How could possibly presume to answer without speculating what the questioner has in mind? Good grief! Alteripse 02:01, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Please see the answers from Cvaneg and Kim Bruning for examples. --η [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ ] 02:13, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/Archive 2


text:
Category:Byzantine geographers

Geographers from the Byzantine Empire.

title: Category:Byzantine geographers


text:
Talk:History of Quebec/Archive 1

Discussions from 2003 and earlier
Hello - Someone seems to be doing cut and paste from Patrick Couture's history website. This problem can be solved two different ways: 1. You can ask the permission to copy some of his work into this article. 2. The sentences are rephrased in such a way that you can no longer tell where it came from. :-) - Mathieugp

Explanation for the corrections of recent edits of very doubtful objectivity:

"Ontario adopts the teaching of French..." No, French had been taught before. it was now basically outlawed. Read the resolution's text here: http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/amnord/ontario_reglement17.htm

 * Your original statement was false and deliberately misleading. I note you didn't reinstate it.Angelique 14:00, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * It wasn't my original statement. And how is outright forbidding teaching in French (under periodical inspection by inspectors) not, well, forbidding the teaching in French? It's definitely not "adopting" the teaching of anything, like you'd changed it to. Tremblay

"The Charter [...] makes it illegal for an employer to speak to an employee in the English language." I invite you to read the Charter's text at: http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/english/charter/index.html - And if you happen to be able to read French I invite you to read the FAQ here: http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/charte/questions_freq/faq_juridi.html

 * Sorry, read what happened in the Town of Rosemere. Two English employees were ordered not to speak to each other in English. Read all corollary laws and Departmental implementation notices on the language law. Angelique 14:00, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Can you provide a link to this article? Tremblay

You'll see that it's definitely not illegal for employers to speak to their employees in English. However, if the employee cannot understand or chooses to reply in French, they cannot be discriminated against by their employer. As had been the case before.

 * As someone whose family owned a business and was ordered by the Language Police not to speak English to an employee who spoke and understood English is a fact. Your wording confirms it, but disguises racism under the term "discrimination against French persons". Angelique 14:00, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * See: http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/charte/questions_freq/rep_14.html Tremblay

 * Quebec, like Canada, has a language policy. If you read French, please educate yourself of the State of linguistic diversity in the world and the use of language policies in the majority of countries. http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/monde/index_politique-lng.htm -- Mathieugp

The bit about having French-only tribunals is also completely false. Unlike other provinces, the minority language in Québec (English) can be used in trials on the same level as French. This is very explicit in the Charter's text. In addition to this(!) a lawyer is even allowed to send an english-only document to a francophone even if this person requests a french version.

 * Sorry: THIS IS FALSE: Reference: Quote from the office of the Chief Justice of the Superior Court of Quebec: "A notice from the ministry of Justice of Quebec specifies that in civil matters, a party that does not understand the French language in Court has to obtain himself the assistance of an interpreter and support the cost of this service." Angelique 14:00, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Bill 101 specifically gives the right to an English-speaking person to do what other hundreds of linguistic minorities cannot do in Quebec: obtain judicial services in their native language. This is very clear and has never been the subject of a controversy unlike other regulations such as language on commercial signs. -- Mathieugp

While I'm at it, the bit about municipal governments being 'forbidden' from having their proceedings in English is also false. Any organism is allowed to offer services in any language other than French. And municipal employees *are* allowed to have written communication in English. But if someone requests it, said written communication must be translated to French.

Honestly, I suggest you actually read the Charter before making more edits to this article. It'll clarify/dissipate lots of the urban legends spread through certain media outlets. You'll find out that the Charter exists mainly to guarantee the fundamental right of the majoritarily francophone population to be served in their language (within the province only). It doesn't exist, like some like to pretend, to oppress anglophones or to keep them from speaking English. Like the United Nations once proclaimed: anglophones in Québec are the most well-treated, but most vocal, minority in the world.

 * Anglophones are not a minority in their own country. Angelique 14:00, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Well here we are. Quebec's Parliament, older than the federal Parliament by some 75 years has full jurisdiction over language and culture. This State is home to a French-speaking nation who's right to live in its own language is denied by people who only recognize their own nationalism as valid. It is true that anglophone Canadians do not see themselves as a minority in Quebec. That's always been the problem. This attitude has a name: we call this imperialism. The same kind of imperialism defeated in Britain by the British themselves, by the French in France, by the Spanish in Spain. Today, the English Parliament recognizes the existence of the Scottish and Welsh nations and their need for political autonomy. English Canada used to be at least as progressive as England, around the time when Lester B. Pearson spoke of Quebec as "the nation within the nation". Nationalism is only acceptable when it recognizes the equality of all other nations and their own nationalism. Quebec nationalists do not deny the existence of the Canadians, an English-spkeaking nation. -- Mathieugp

To answer Angelique's statement about the Quebec Act, let me just say that the National Library of Canada doesn't think it's an "unsubstantiated speculation" to say that the Act was influenced by the uprising in the American colonies (See: http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/2/18/h18-2083-e.html)

 * This is an example of quoting out of context to serve one's goal. I will clarify it in the article in a factual manner, withgout manipulation. Angelique 14:11, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Out of context? It's an article, by the National Library of Canada about Lower Canada. Can it be any more factual and "in context"? You could concede at least that much. Tremblay

Now that I've supplied all of this, is it possible for Angelique to provide proof that when there were 1200 African slaves in New France there were only 12 000 colonists? Same goes for Henri Bourassa's support of Nazis in Le Devoir. Tremblay 04:29, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * The quote of only 1,200 slaves (all happily working as maids) came from another person trying to manipulate this article. MY reference to 12,000 French people in all of North America comes from Microsoft Encarta. Angelique 14:11, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Can you provide the year where there were only 12 000 colonists and 1200 African slaves? I'd like to verify it myself. Tremblay

 * What are you trying to do here? There were amerindian and black slaves all accross America during colonial times. The English, the French, the Spanish, the Americans, the Iroquois were all slave trading nations. It was a huge step forward for humanity when this disgusting practice was abandonned. All your little inputs serve only one purpose: to prensent the "French" as an evil bunch of racist bigots, unlike the Canadians of course, who are the bestest defenders of human rights in all history. Its funny how I thought that chauvinism (pride in ones moral or cultural superiority) was in opposition to humanism. -- Mathieugp

And oh, yes. Why do you need to lie? I never said Henri Bourassa supported the Nazis but I will repeat: the anti-Semitic, racist, bigot, Lionel Groulx did. Angelique 14:15, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * If you want to support the thesis that Lionel Groulx was a racist bigot, please do it in Lionel Groulx and leave the chronology of Quebec alone. -- Mathieugp

 * It's an honest mistake on my part. While reading through your dozens of small edits to this article, I ended up associating Henri Bourassa, Le Devoir and support for Nazis. Tremblay

This is an encyclopedia that the rules say is to be written with NPOV and factual. When one has to slant and manipulate words, quote out of context, it shows just how valid their arguments really are. Angelique 14:11, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

As soon as I get time, I will fix the rest of this distorted article as well as others that one or two people have doctored to use Wikipedia as a public forum for promoting their own political goals. Sad. Angelique 15:18, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Pot to kettle? I'm afraid to see how you'll right all of the francophone world's wrongs. Tremblay

 * You are the only one clearly doing this here Miss. -- Mathieugp

I removed : "In a third of the ridings, no elections were held." This is out of context and done to denegrate the democratic system. It should only be stated with the facts given as to why, temporarily, there was no election held in a particular riding. Angelique 15:43, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * This was indeed a mistake. It should have read No vote was held in a third of the ridings. My last edit had this in it as well as The ballot was not used, as was the rule of the time. These are historical facts. -- Mathieugp

Mathieugp - You have made more changes that are unfounded, are not NPOV and you continue to use Wikipedia as a platform for your political views. You also have repeatedly deleted important facts and delinked articles embarassiung to your "cause." I will reverse it all and will post a warning on this page and ask for a Wikipedia Administrator to intevene. Angelique 15:02, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Can you give an example? I was about to ask a Wikipedia Administrator to intervene myself, because writing long paragraphs detailing how you think that French colonization was evil is not the purpose of this page. Colonization of America by the French and the British is of course not a pretty story.

 * The page History of Quebec is a chronology of events. The hanging of Angelique is a fact. That's why it belongs under 1734. If you have other information to contribe to this page, you are welcomed to insert them. If you believe that what I or other Quebecers write on our history is not accurate, please tell us why and how it is in this discussion page. If you are correct and we are wrong on the facts, we will be glad to change it for truth's sake. -- Mathieugp

 * Uhm, Angelique, I don't think anyone is voluntarily taking out those links. From what I see, no one is deleting anything; it's being overwritten by simultaneous edits. It's one of the many disadvantages of making dozens of little edits instead of a single major edit. If someone else is editing at the same time as you are and saves their work after yours, it'll overwrite every change made since the person started working in the edit form.

 * If you look carefully, your last edit was at 19:38; and IP 65.92.243.221 saved their edit at 19:47. So when IP 65... saved their work, it must've inadvertently undone part of your 23 consecutive minor edits.

 * Besides, what kind of a "cause" would anyone be promoting by removing links to things like Florida and Nova Scotia? In my opinion, seeing what you've done and said on the topic so far, I don't think you're in the ideal position to be telling anyone that they're "pushing their cause" by not having a NPOV on Wikipedia.

 * We should start working together on this instead of deleting every change made, regardless of the irrevocable facts brought forth. We should start by reverting to Mathieugp's version and combining it with Angelique's Dec 1 19:38 version. Tremblay 16:27, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I agree. I added tons of new dates, reinserted the info about the hanging of the black slave under 1734. Then, I came back and saw that Angelique had reverted to an older version of this page. We should only insert dated facts and leave the interpretation of those to the readers. I don't know how to put back all that I had added without doing it manually. Can you do it Tremblay or Angelique? -Mathieugp

 * Can someone do the rollback? I really don't understand how you can do that in Wikipedia? -Mathieugp

 * You need to be an administrator to use the rollback function. Essentially it is just a quick revert function, nothing special really. Adam Bishop 16:45, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Can you do it then? Otherwize I will be forced to manually re-enter some 30 or so dated events that were removed after Angelique reverted to a previous version of this page. -Mathieugp

 * Well, I can't rollback to a specific version, now that I see which version you want to use. But I manually revert it, I hope that is what you want (you can do that too, actually). Adam Bishop 19:42, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * And now that I look at the edit history, I have no idea which version you want to revert to anyway, so you'll have to revert it yourself I guess. Adam Bishop 19:46, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

-

Thank you Adam. I reverted to my most up to date version and manually inserted all of Angelique's paragraphs into it. I hope I didn't forget anything. If I did, please feel free to reinsert it yourself Angelique. Now, as for rewriting other people's paragraphs to give the event a different interpretation, I think it is more than time for it to stop. We are all adults, and I think we can consult each other and agree that NPOV means that you only put the facts and leave those to the interpretation of the readers. -Mathieugp

Right now there are at least three articles relating the history of New France:

http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_New_France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_France http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Quebec

I think we should merge them with New_France and have a brief summary of the events on History_of_Quebec with a link to the full article. Now who's up for doing it? :P Tremblay 22:36, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Yes. I started History of New France, but later found out that there was already a decent New France page. We can certainly integrate the detailed chronology into the main article. -Mathieugp

I would say merge them all with New France, and have History of Quebec start at 1763 (well, it shouldn't start at 5 billion years ago, anyway :)) Adam Bishop 23:38, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I disagree. Starting the History of Quebec in 1763 makes no sense. If we start it in 1534, we only tell the history of French and British colonization. If we tell it from 1763, we only tell the history of British colonization. Starting billions of years ago might be exaggerated, but it is the best way to tell the history of all peoples that have lived here, including the Native Americans whom we forget so often. Or maybe we can start at 8000 BC when the first humans arrived? -Mathieugp

See: (cur) (last). . 20:23, 3 Dec 2003. . Mathieugp (Integrated all of Angelique's inputs into the chronology) -- Not true, the game playing with words, deletions and innuendo continues by Mathieugp. Angelique 00:10, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The scattered bits about slavery should be verified and grouped under a single paragraph. Right now we have bits about the total, and inconsistent, number of slaves in the colony listed under 1608 and 1632. Same goes for contradictory population counts.

I think we should gradually move to a paragraph-based article to provide more background on certain issues. Also, as it stands now, unrelated statements are put under the wrong dates (for example the bit about English in Roman Catholic schools in Quebec after the mention of Regulation 17 in Ontario).

Aside from that, I hope to start working on the New_France merger in the next few days... if anyone wants to help... ;) Tremblay 07:29, 4

(diff) (hist). . History of Quebec; 12:07. . Angelique (Talk) (Reverting to last edit by Angelique following massive propaganda by USER: 66.130.171.30 who labelled it as "Clarifications, typos, etc (same old, same old)" - Editing like this in massive form, removing facts because they don't suit your racist cause and making degrogatory references is unacceptable conduct at Wikipedia. A developer can match USER: 66.130.171.30 to a logged in User. Dec 2003 (UTC)Angelique 12:35, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * "racist cause"? I mean... come on. Aside from being inappropriate and childish, this name-calling leaves no doubt as to your very big personal bias.

 * I made the changes as 66.130.171.30. My login had timed out but I made a small edit as Tremblay a few minutes later to show that it was me. Honestly, I don't see what can be labeled as "massive propaganda" in my edit and am very curious to see what you have to say on the matter. I will also second Mathieugp's motion on Vandalism in Progress given your refusal to work together on the matter.

 * Also, before deleting someone's changes under the accusation of it being "massive propaganda", please(!) discuss the troublesome passages here (like Mathieugp and I have been trying to do with your passages). In addition to being self-centered and insulting, reverts undo all sorts of necessary edits like typo-corrections and clarifications.Tremblay 18:42, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Angelique: I have added you to the Vandalism in Progress page. I do not have the patience to monitor all the little removals, modifications, and additions that you do to this page many times a day. I know that everything I entered personally is verifiable, it is even maybe readily available in English online. I invited you to point out what could be considered non-NPOV in the various edits made by me or others, but you never bothered replying and kept removing what you didn't like and adding all that you could find to "make the French look bad". You are volontarily linking slavery under the Ancien Regime to the destruction of Iroquois villages during wartime to exclusion of non-Catholics from New France to electoral fraud in Quebec to Lionel Groulx and Bill 101, all this in the hope of leading other people to see the evil "French" of New France from a narrow point of view where they are ugly monsters who deserve to be hated like Nazis. I find all this very childish. Mathieugp 14:48, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Also, USER: 66.130.171.30 is me (don't know why it didn't show my name) and most if not all of what I add inserted can be verified on a federally funded history site called Canadiana. Visit http://www.canadiana.org/citm/themes/constitution1_e.html and learn. Mathieugp 15:06, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Ok, I guess I wasn't 66.130.171.30 then. :-) Mathieugp 19:04, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

---

Maybe we can begin by merging by year to clean up?

Example:

1837 - event 1

1837 - event 2

1837 - event 3

into:

1837 - event 1,2,3

If we find that we crammed too many different events into a single year, then we can move the stuff into another page dedicated to it or put a see also: blablabla.

Mathieugp 19:12, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Please Angelique, I'm asking you once again: Is it possible for you to stop automatically reverting to your versions on History of Quebec whenever someone edits it? The very least you could do is provide an explanation for your reverts on the Talk: page. We've pleaded with you, time and time again, to have an open and honest discussion with us on Talk:History of Quebec. By doing so we were hoping to start working together on the article - instead of working on trying to contain the damage left by your reverts.

You're sending out an awfully bad message by consistently reverting to your edits. It's as though you think you're the article's new overseer, and that only your edits are acceptable. But in spite of your attitude, after every one of your multiple reverts, I've been kind enough to manually insert your changes into the pre-revert version of the article. We've put a lot of energy into trying to keep the edits on History of Quebec civil, but if you continue to resort to unjustified reverts while obstinately refusing to discuss your caveats, more drastic measures will have to be taken to prevent your vandalizing.

I just undid the damage done by the latest revert. I didn't add the bit about Yves Michaud since it is a copyrighted text taken straight from http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/chronos/michaud.htm Ironically (not really), the only part that Angelique didn't copy-and-paste was the bit that gave a bit more context to the quote. If an original version is to be added it is necessary (and objective) to add the following information:

a) Put Michaud's comments in context b) The Parti Québécois and the National Assembly hastily condemned his comments; c) 3 out of 4 Quebecers were against his statements; d) Later, the director of the Quebec chapter of B'nai Brith, Robert Libman, said that Michaud's words had been incredibly distorted and that he didn't think he was an anti-semite. He even stated that Quebec was the least anti-semitic province in Canada - and that all the anti-semitic inscriptions found in Quebec by B'nai Brith were written in English. Tremblay 06:15, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

REPLY by Angelique to the team of Mathieugp and Tremblay (are they one and the same or just two friends?)

YOU SAID: "I believe you will learn a lot by reading of the 328 Huguenots who came to live in New France. --> http://pages.infinit.net/barbeaum/huga/ Mathieugp 03:33, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)"

I already know a lot, far more than most, about the Huguenots. The only Huguenots who were tolerated in New France were during the reign of the Protestant king Henry IV of France. My reference in the history of Quebec is the specific butchering and slaughter of Huguenots and their being forced to flee France and not allowed to practise their religion in New France. (Note, in the expulsion of the 12,000 Acadians, they weren’t murdered and butchered in the streets. 70,000 Huguenots were slaughtered and almost 500,000 fled for their lives. So, let's not pretend it's only those awful English who did things. Want a list of French atrocities in their colonies?)

"The Prime Minister of Canada, John A. MacDonald declares that "Even if all the dogs of Quebec bark, Riel will be hanged!" " --- User: Mathieugp : You inserted this in order to make it appear that the Prime Minister called the people of Quebec “dogs.” This is an example of how those who have no case create innuendo and hide any facts they don’t like. Do not insult the Prime Minister again.

 * You're being inconsistent. You remove quotes by John A. MacDonald on the basis that they can be misinterpreted, yet you insert "bitter, racist" to qualify Parizeau's remarks. I've taken out those adjectives so that readers can judge by themselves when reading the article on the matter. Tremblay

 * I did not insert this. The Prime Minister of the Canadian Dominion called the people of Quebec dogs. You are saying, we can't judge the entire life of this man on one sentence. You are right. It is the same for so many other people stained by the right-wing anglo-Canadian press like Parizeau and Michaud. This is of course out of context: it should be placed in History of Manitoba or something like that. However, I do not believe you have the authority to tell anyone not to let the world know of what McDonald and his Tories did in the West. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

"Later, when such opinions weren't uncommon for North American and European Christians, he denounced Jews and supported the Nazis in Germany" --- User: Mathieugp : Do not speak for others and label them as racist. If you insert this racism again, I will ask the Wikipedia Administrators to ban you.

 * First of all, this is User:Tremblay who wrote this. What is racist in this sentence? 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

User: Mathieugp / Tremblay : I will edit more of your deliberate attempts to distort facts later but for now will change your most blatant violations of Wikipedia policy.

 * Yeah ok. Continue to revert this page over and over again. Remove all that you don't want to remember about British colonization in America and exaggerate all that the evil French Catholic of Canada did even though they were the bestest treated conquered people on earth. This is sure to have everyone wish for us to get banned from Wikipedia. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I certainly did not breech copyright laws in any way shape or form in the things I wrote on the racist Yves Michaud.

 * Did you ask the permission before copying his work? Because, the Wikipedia rules are strict on this: DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION! 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Go to http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/chronos/michaud.htm ; look at the bottom of the page: © 2001 Claude Bélanger, Marianopolis College - Wikipedia has a very clear policy against the submission of copyrighted material. Tremblay

And do not put words in Robert Libman’s mouth.

 * See: VOIR, week of March 1st 2001 edition, article by Georges Boulanger.

 * What Tremblay wrote is straight from Robert Libman's mouth, live on Quebec TV. While being interviewed in French, he clearly stated that the whole Michaud affair had, in his opinion, been blown out of proportions, that he didn't think Michaud (who lived in a Jewish neighbourhood most of his life and is even the godfather of a Jewish kid) was not antisemite. He also informed us that, in the facts, in the numbers, Quebec is the province with the least amout of antisemitic incidents (according to him, I personally think it probably is a maritime province considering the population) and yes, that ALL the ones found by the B'nai Brith in French Quebec were in English. I guess that, being really twisted, one could conclude that all these people (writing crap against the Jews) were in fact bilingual Francophone separatists worshipping Lionel Groulx. Most people are not that twisted thanks to God, especially when they lived in Quebec for a while and they know from experience that it is one of the most open societies in the world. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Everything you write is either a lie, innuendo, quoted out of context, or distorted.

 * You have stated that many many times now, without ever giving an concrete example. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Fact: the French people in Quebec were abandoned by France and the pain those people must have felt in 1763 is unimaginable.

 * Fact: Quebec was conquered by the arms. France left, was replaced by Great Britain, the most powerful Empire, on which the sun never sets. This Empire was in the hands on a Monarch, who favored one religion and one language. This is the same for all other European powers. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

(And this is at a time when the French King is still seen as "father of the people".)

 * This is a very Britishy perception of things, portraying the Canadiens as children, unable to govern themselves. These children, defended their country, Canada, for 75 years, without the support of the French Crown before the Conquest. The Canadiens were a proud people. France didn't care much for this unvaluable colony. Also, the French Empire was declining at the time, they have better things to do, like battle Britain which was getting much stronger than they could have ever imagined. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Read the history of French colonialism - the conquest by brute force, the maintenance of power through brutal suppression, the executions for "disobedience," the imposition of the French Language and the imposition of the Roman Catholic faith. This conduct was how it was. The English, Spanish, Portuguese, and Belgium etc. all behaved the same way : violent, brutal suppression and theft of the colony’s resources.

 * Well here you go. It is not that hard, is it? To admit that ALL colonialisms are bad, including the one which ruled over Quebec from London until 1931, and was replaced by the one in Ottawa after that. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Been to the Côte d'Ivoire lately? 400,000 French troops in Algeria and a French rule that was one of the most brutal in history. READ. I eventually will go to each site here at Wikipedia and do a "History of XXX" demonstrating what happened to that country under French occupation. I note, the article on Vietnam touched on it, but you should read more. Have you ever seen the giant Roman Catholic Notre Dame Cathedral in Hanoi?

 * I have nothing against that, although you really should also be doing the same for the British, the Germans, the Chinese, the Albanians, the Romans, the Spanish, the Portuguese the Americans and all powers that pillaged the world resources. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The history of the French people in Canada will certainly have instances of bigots, etc. All nations do.

 * In that case, what is this obsession of yours with Quebecers who never even had an army to take control of another people's land? Also, please stop referring to as as "The French" the French live in France and left centuries ago. We are not French. We speak French and are no longer Catholic. Surely you must be aware that our culture is not that of France, being separated from it for that long? 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That was history, it was how everyone thought and acted at the time. Women’s rights? Public executions? Or being jailed for speaking out against the British Aristocracy was not limited to the French. ALL peasant Canadians were subjected to the same thing. One of my mother’s English ancestors was put in jail in 1803 in New Brunswick because he insulted an aristocrat. And he stayed there for months until a trial was held. Meanwhile his wife and 13 children almost starved to death. (And yes, I have the documents from the N.B. archives.)

 * Well, I have nothing to say here. This is a very sad history indeed. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

And oh yes, land grants -- the United Empire Loyalists who fled New York in 1783 got a 50 acre land grant in N.B., soldiers got 100-200 acres for their service. But, members of the aristocracy got 6,000 on average!

 * Well, it sure was not fair but, the Loyalists were the colonizers in America miss. They were booted out by the American freedom fighters, remember? You won't see me and the majority of English-speakers on this planet cry for these ones. 65.92.243.221

And, this religious crap, that saw the French in France slaughter Huguenots was of course a major issue in Canada because Protestants lived in fear of the Catholic Church because of its history of brutal oppression.

 * Now that's twisted. The Protestants who came here during the French regime converted to Catholicism, or married Catholics and their children became Catholics. I condemn religious persecusion, but you have to be severely biased to link the war against Protestants in France to a small colony in America. When the English took over, the roles were reversed: The Catholics were now living under the Rule of a Protestant King who spoke a different language. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

But, nowhere in the British Empire (and especially not in any French colony) was any conquered minority ever treated so well as the French in Quebec.

 * Conquered minority? The Canadiens were a majority in Canada (today Quebec). The minority was British. A minority ruling the majority. This is what will be replaced by democracy later. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

In 1774, the Quebec Act is an astounding and unheard piece of democracy unparalleled in the history colonization that was passed despite powerful opposition.

 * Democracy? Democracy is 50% + 1 vote the laws. The majority of the people rule. It didn't exist before the independece of the Americans and the French Revolution, unless you go back to the Ancient Greeks. The Americans battled against the very political regime which you glorify today. That is totally unacceptable. You are insulting humanity's memory by defending the British Empire's governments. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

And it was passed by the British Parliament because the English citizens of Canada wanted it.

 * It was passed by the British Parliament, under severe pressure because of the troubles in the American colonies. That is a measure of apeasement. The "citizens" (subjects) of British origin were numbering in the hundreds and were opposed to Governor Murray, whom they considered weak and bough out by the "French". They got him removed and replaced by someone else, who pretty much concluded the same thing as Murray. The capitulation act had numerous garanties for the Canadiens, the Acadiens and the natives. Today, we consider that all humans deserve to be treated equally, despite their origins, their belief. Back then, a King or a Queen could decide the faith of millions of people. The world as evolved, but we will not speak of Human rights the way we do now before 1789. First, we will have to destroy governments controlled by the aristocraties. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The people of Canada wanted peace from Europe’s never-ending wars for power and wealth and peace from murder, torture, and discrimination in the name of religion. The 53,000 French people in 1765 Quebec had never known any form of democracy or the right to speak out against injustices.

 * It was the same all over the world. Do you really think Quebecers would have gotten anything if they hadn't battled for it? Again, please, stop calling us French. We have a name. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Under the English, French Canadians enjoyed democratic freedoms unheard of in France let alone in any French colony.

 * The best thing back then was British Parliamentarianism. The Canadiens got this in 1791, like all the other colonies of Britain that hadn't booted the monarchists out. That was a measure of apeasement and it worked brilliantly. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

And as a result, the 53,000 French citizens in 1765 Quebec became 6 million today and the French language, preserved and protected with a great deal of help and money by all of Canada is stronger today than ever.

 * Wow. Centuries of a complex history summed up in such a short sentence. I had not realized how we all owed our life to a dead King of England. It is strange how I thought that I had the inherant right to exist because I am a human being. It is funny how all this time I thought that all nations had the right to equality. Thank you for reminding me that I was wrong to have faith in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

And, despite isolating themselves, French Canadians live in what most people see as one of the greatest countries in the World and occupy the most powerful positions in government, both elected and in the civil service. (It is worth noting that the number of French Canadian civil servants in Canada is a greater percentage than their population while in Quebec the approx. 20% non-French hold only 2.4% of the jobs in the Quebec provincial civil service.)

 * Thank you Trudeau! Now all of Canada think we want to remain a minority forever! Isn't it great to be governmed by a generous foreign nation when you are a weak and incapable people! Vive le Canada! 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Also, please note that the isolation of Quebec by the Church and the lack of participation in business was such that no MBA program existed in any Quebec university until the early 1980’s. Within a few years, the program at the University of Montreal was graduating more French Canadian MBA’s than any university in Canada. Imagine what might have been in the past if the Church didn’t keep control.

 * It's funny. That's what a lot of Quebecers wonder as well. What would our history have been if we had succeeded in getting rid of the Catholic nuisance sleeping with the British colonial government in 1837? Wow, imagine if Monseigneur Lartigue had not been there to block the construction of our first secular schools. Imagine we had controlled our own tax money to build those same schools. Imagine what would have happened if the government of Lower Canada had been elected instead of appointed by London... 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Take a good look at the Beauce Region. It shows what French Canadian entrepreneurship can do.

 * I wonder if Quebecers themselves, collectively, have anything to do with this. Do you thing the Quebec governement of Jean Lesage (with young Levesque and Parizeau) has anything to do with this? 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

So, bottom line is stop blaming others and participate instead of wallowing in self-pity about a universal code of conduct from years ago, unable to justify your tales of supposed woe without distortion.

 * Nobody blames nobody Angelique. Quebecers want to govern themselves and not be governed by another nation. That's the exact opposite of self-pity. It's called self-confidence and self-respect. This is necessary in order to be treated as an equal and treat others as equals in return.

It reminds me of people I visited in Northern Ireland : Protestants teaching their tiny children songs about killing Catholics and reminding them of the Battles fought 400 years ago, and insisting on Marching in the streets to celebrate a victory in some battle centuries before. And the IRA teaching hatred and the killing goes on. God bless Canada, even when the FLQ did what they did, we overcame it and quickly.

 * I fail to see how teaching the history correctly has anything to do with violent religous organizations. Nobody is talking about killing anyone here. In our case, there is only one side with an actual military power and it is not Quebec. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

And, as a matter of interest, because of the business environment in the USA and in the rest of Canada, French Canadians standard of living surpassed France almost 100 years ago and today GDP, per capita income, etc. etc. is far ahead of France and with much lower per capita taxation.

 * That's not true. The standards of living of Quebecers went up when they started to use the powers of th Quebec State at their advantage. This started in the 1960s during the Quiet Revolution. Before that, being a Quebecer of French Canadian origin was ranking your at the bottom of the later. All the stats can be read in the report of the Federal commission of Bilingualism and Binationalism of 1963. Only in the 1990s did the Francophone majority of Quebec start earning as much as Anglophones. I fail to see what comparing the quality of live in Quebec and France has to do with all this. 65.92.243.221

After the French Revolution, the rise of an absolute Emperor, the return of three Kings as rulers, an election and then another self-declared Emperor right up to 1871, is a history where the word democracy has little meaning.

 * You are terrible. Democracy in Europe began with the French revolution. The revolution ended after 13 years with the restoration. All monarchies of Europe united against France to put a King back in power. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Given what we can see in Senegal, Vietnam and countless other French colonies, I shudder to think what Canada would be like had it been under French rule.

 * The French would have kept ignoring the Canadiens probably and they would have been given their independence or would have fought for it. That's the history of all colonies except Quebec. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Bottom line : the French speaking people of Quebec are citizens of Canada, equal in all respects to the immigrant Pakistanis, Haitians, Palestinians, etc. and have no right to divide the sovereign Country of Canada, period. France and Germany slaughtered each other over Alsace and Lorraine, both oppressing its citizens, imposing language and education.

 * Your bottom line makes us a minorty amongs many in a country build on our back. Quebecers cannot accept this. Half of them want to become independent, the other half wants to reform the country. Wake up. All international observers can clearly see that. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Stop playing games, User: Mathieugp / Tremblay. Grow up, get rid of your racism, and learn about the real world. Angelique 16:17, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I think calling me a racist as you do and did in the past is more than enough to have you banned from Wikipedia. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Although this very long and very emotional paragraph can be considered a step towards open discussion, it doesn't actually refer to anything found in the article. :P Tremblay

OK, I think everyone involved here needs to take a break from this article. Especially you, Angelique - calling everyone a racist etc etc is more of a "bannable" offense than whatever wrongs you think Mathieu has committed (though none of you would be banned over this, that would be ridiculous). How about you just stop editing the article for a few days or a week. If it helps, I could try to make this into a proper article (rather than a chronology, I mean). I wrote most of what is on New France, and none of you seem to have any issues with that....I'm also not from Quebec so I might be more neutral. But please, stop fighting/reverting, it is not solving anything. Adam Bishop 17:13, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I agree with that, an objective third party is needed here. Tremblay 18:14, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I agree too. I'll be back in about a week to see what progress can be made in spite of Angelique. 65.92.243.221 18:57, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I am removing the following input by Tremblay and Mathieugp for the fourth time. This is absolute and total falsehood deliberately placed in this article to denegrate the Prime Minister of Canada. Angelique 16:23, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

"The Prime Minister of Canada, John A. MacDonald declares that "Even if all the dogs of Quebec bark, Riel will be hanged!" He later claimed that he meant dogs in the literal sense."

 * Which part do you object do? That he meant dogs literally? If so, then it's probably a good idea to take that out, even though you should still be avoiding editing the article :) Anyway, are you objecting to the quote in general? Is it apocryphal? Or do you just think that nothing bad should be said about Macdonald? Adam Bishop 16:40, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:History of Quebec/Archive 1