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Humber Armoured Car

The Humber Armoured Car was one of the most widely produced British armoured cars of the Second World War. It supplemented the Humber Light Reconnaissance Car and remained in service until the end of the war.

Development
The Guy company did not have sufficient production capacity to produce sufficient Guy Armoured Cars as well as other vehicles, so shortly after war broke out the Rootes Group were approached to produce an armoured car – at the time the terminology "Tank, Light (Wheeled)" was used by the Army. Working from the Guy design, Karrier designed a vehicle using as a basis their KT 4 artillery tractor chassis (already in production for the Indian Army) and the armoured body of the Guy Armoured Car. Karrier moved the KT4 engine to the rear and fitted welded bodies and turrets provided by Guy. As it had been based on proven elements, trials of prototypes passed without serious issues and an order for 500 was placed in 1940 and first deliveries made in 1941.

The Karrier name was dropped to avoid confusion with the British Universal Carrier tracked vehicle and the vehicles were designated "Armoured Car, Humber Mk 1" using the name of Humber Limited (another member of the Rootes Group) though production was by Karrier at the Luton works of Commer (another Rootes company).

The first Humbers were more or less identical to the Guy down to the faults in the armour, but this was later rectified.

The Mark III improved upon the Mark II by providing a three-man turret. Mark III production ended in 1942 after 1,650 had been built.

The Humber was a relatively complicated build compared to the Daimler Amoured Car but the Rootes Group had larger production capacity so both companies worked on a common design for production. While design of this possible replacement, the 2-pounder (40mm) armed Coventry armoured car, was underway, the Mark IV was designed. This put the US 37 mm gun in the turret but at the cost of one crewman. The Coventry was not ordered as a replacement and so production of Mark IV continued, for a total of 2,000.

Design
The Humber was a rectangular chassis frame with a rear mounted engine. The gearbox was mounted to the front of the engine; it fed a centrally mounted transfer box which distributed power to front and rear differentials. The rigid axles were mounted on leaf springs front and rear with hydraulic dampers. The welded armoured hull was mounted at four points - front, rear and sides - to give some flexibility but with precautions against excessive movement of the hull on the chassis.

For forward vision the driver had a flap in the front of the "cab" (which became part of the glacis from the Mark II onwards). When shut the view he was protected by a Triplex bullet proof glass block. These could be readily replaced if damaged. There were other flaps to the sides. In order to see to the rear there was a combination of a flap in the rear bulkhead between the fighting compartment and engine bay and a mechanism that raised the engine cover.

The turret, armed with one 15mm and one 7.92mm Besa machine guns, was hand traversed. The vehicle commander acted as the wireless operator.

Service history
The vehicle was used in the North African Campaign from late 1941 by the 11th Hussars and other units. It was also widely used in the European theatre by reconnaissance regiments of British and Canadian infantry divisions. A few vehicles were used for patrol duty along the Iran supply route. A British Indian Army armoured car regiment, partly equipped with Humbers, served in the reconquest of Burma. Portugal received a number of Humber vehicles in 1943, most of them going to the Army, but with 20 going to the National Republican Guard. After the Second World War, the Humber was employed by Egypt in 1948–49 as well as by Burma, Ceylon, Cyprus, Denmark, India, Mexico and the Netherlands.

The Humber armoured car was used in Burma Campaign by the 16th Light Cavalry, an Indian armoured car regiment, which formed part of Fourteenth Army troops. After Independence, an Indian Army regiment, 63rd Cavalry, was raised with Humber Mk IV armoured cars as one of its squadrons which was later hived off as an independent reconnaissance squadron and the integral squadron re-raised, the second time with Daimlers. The Humbers and Daimlers of the Indian Army formed the mounts of the President's Bodyguard and were deployed in the defense of Chushul at heights above 14,000 ft during the 1962 Indo-China War. The Humber was used against the Indian Army in 1948 by the 2nd and 4th Hyderabad Lancers, armoured car cavalry units of the Hyderabad State Forces, during Operation Polo.

Humber armoured cars were employed during the Indian invasion of Goa in December 1961. These vehicles equipped the four reconnaissance squadrons of the Portuguese garrison in Goa. The Portuguese Humbers engaged the invading Indian forces in the brief fights that occurred in the border villages of Doromagogo, Malinguém and Polem, and in the break through the Indian troops surrounding the Portuguese forces in Mapusa.

Survivors
Several static and operational cars are distributed through North America and Europe. The Tank Museum, Bovington, England has an original and sole survivor Guy Wheeled Tank on display and a Humber Mk II not currently on display. A Mk IV is on display at the Australian Armour and Artillery Museum in Cairns, Australia. Two Portuguese cars are on display, one at the Museu do Combatente in Lisbon and the other at the Military Museum of Elvas.

Variants

 * Mark I
 * Original version, hull as the Guy Armoured Car Mark 1A. Armed with one 15 mm and one 7.92 mm calibre Besa machine guns. Three man crew: driver, gunner, commander. About 300 units built.

 * Mark II
 * Changes to the turret, better armour around driver and radiator. 440 units built.

 * Mark II OP
 * Observation post vehicle fitted for communication with field artillery batteries, armed with two 7.92 mm Besa machine guns

 * Mark III
 * Larger three-man turret with provisions for a wireless operator freeing up the wireless operation tasks of the commander.

 * Mark III "Rear Link"
 * gun replaced with dummy to allow installation of a Wireless Set No. 19 High Power, ie amplified, and its generator. Issued two per regiment for communication between Brigade and Divisional headquarters.

 * Mark IV
 * Equipped with the US M5 or M6 37 mm high velocity gun in place of the 15 mm Besa. The larger gun required the removal of the third crewman in the turret (the wireless operator). Turret hatches were rearranged with the new gun and crew layout. About 2,000 units built.

 * AA Mark I
 * The Mark I fitted with a different turret (by Stothert & Pitt) mounting four 7.92 mm Besa machine guns able to elevate to near vertical and an AA sight. Introduced in 1943, the vehicle was intended to provide anti-aircraft support for armoured car units (at a rate of one troop of four cars per regiment), but the Allied air superiority meant they were needed less and less as the war progressed and the troops were disbanded in 1944. A twin 15mm Besa version was also made.

Second World War

 * British India
 * 🇨🇦 Canada
 * 🇮🇹 Italy
 * 🇵🇹 Portugal
 * 🇬🇧 United Kingdom

Post-War

 * Burma
 * Ceylon
 * 🇨🇾 Cyprus
 * 🇩🇰 Denmark
 * 🇪🇬 Egypt
 * 🇮🇳 India
 * 🇲🇽 Mexico
 * 🇳🇱 Netherlands
 * 🇮🇩 Indonesia
 * undefined

title: Humber Armoured Car


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The Touch (1971 film)

The Touch (Beröringen) is a 1971 Swedish romantic drama film directed and written by Ingmar Bergman and starring Max von Sydow, Bibi Andersson, Elliott Gould, and Sheila Reid. The film tells the story of an affair between a married woman and an impetuous foreigner. It contains references to the Virgin Mary and the Holocaust.

Produced by ABC Pictures, The Touch was Bergman's first English-language film, but made in two versions - one in Swedish and English, the other wholly in English. It was shot on the island of Gotland in Sweden in 1970. Cinematographer Sven Nykvist shot it in Eastmancolor. Gould, cast over Paul Newman and Robert Redford, believed Bergman's screenplay was semi-autobiographical.

The film received mixed to negative reviews and failed at the box office. It has since had a limited rerelease by the Film Society of Lincoln Center in 2011 and a home media release by The Criterion Collection in 2018.

Plot
In a small town in Sweden, Karin is a housewife, married to a hospital physician named Andreas and bringing up their two children. Visiting the clinic where her mother is ill, she finds her dead. David, an American archaeologist sees her overcome with sorrow. The couple ask David to dinner at their house and he tells them about his work at a medieval church, where a 500-year-old wooden statue of the Virgin Mary has been uncovered. He also tells Karin that he fell in love with her the day he saw her at the clinic.

Karin visits David in his apartment and agrees to have sex with him. She tells him this is her first affair and that she is uncertain if she is in love with him, but it is significant for her. As the affair continues, David's moods always prevail and he is frequently distant, overbearing, and angry. When she shows up under the influence of alcohol, and having failed to quit smoking as they agreed, he slaps her. Later he shares his family history with her, telling her many of his relatives were murdered in Nazi concentration camps during World War II.

Eventually, Andreas visits David, revealing he has been receiving anonymous poison pen letters telling him David is having an affair with Karin. David dismisses the visit as absurd, and argues when Andreas reminds him that he had cared for David after an attempted suicide. In the church, David shows Karin the restored statue of Mary, telling her that it is being consumed from inside by a previously unknown species of insect. He then leaves for London, and Karin tells Andreas she feels she must go to find out why he left her. Andreas sternly tells her that if she leaves, she cannot return to their marriage, but she departs anyway.

Going to David's address in London, Karin finds a woman with congenital health problems named Sara and is surprised to hear Sara say she is David's sister, though he had told Karin he had no family left. Sara guesses Karin is pregnant, though Karin refuses to say if the father is Andreas or David. Sara also declares that David will never leave her. Karin goes, saying she does not think she will return.

Back in Sweden, David asks Karin to meet him. He tells her he finds life without her intolerable, and that their relationship has changed him, and that he now cares about what will happen to them. He says he has accepted a position at a Danish university and asks Karin to come with him, with her children. Karin rejects the offer, citing her "duty" to remain. He accuses her of lying and cowardice as they separate.

Themes
Paul Scherer at Indiana University South Bend argued the film contains "fairly explicit reference to the Garden of Eden and such related themes as Satan, temptation and the fall". Scherer also noted critic James Gay argued anti-Semitism was vaguely a theme in the film, while Virginia Wexman said the film relied on "poetic imagery".

The statue of Mary also features in the film's themes. The statue has a small smile, and resembles Karin's mother. Bergman had earlier expressed his psychological difficulty distinguishing between wife and mother, and writer Frank Gado argues that Karin's mother's death removes her from Karin and allows David to love her. The larvae eating the statue may represent David and Karin's fetus.

Development
During a 1964 production in London, Swedish director Ingmar Bergman met Morton Baum, a representative of the American Broadcasting Company, which was launching a film production arm. Bergman concluded a contract with ABC for $1 million. The Touch was Bergman's first English language film, and he viewed it as the first love story film he ever made.

In drawing up his story, Bergman was inspired by the death of his friend, an actor, 15 years previously. The death of his father, Erik Bergman, also informed the visuals of the opening hospital scene. Ingmar Bergman submitted a 56-page film treatment to Baum, which resembled a novella rather than a screenplay.

Casting
Bergman selected actor Elliott Gould on the basis of his work in Getting Straight. Paul Newman, Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman had also been proposed by ABC. Gould stated that he "got a migraine" when he read the first sex scene in the screenplay, and that he believed the film could potentially harm his career, but felt it was an honour to be the first American actor in a Bergman film.

Bergman had written the character Karin with Liv Ullmann in mind, but when Ullmann was unavailable, he offered it to Bibi Andersson. Andersson said she had reservations, both because she was the second choice for the role and because she had just played a similar role, but said she did not feel like she could turn down Bergman's offers.

Filming
The film was shot on the island of Gotland, as well as at Film-Tcknik Studios in Stockholm and in London, between 14 September and 13 November 1970. Cinematographer Sven Nykvist employed Eastmancolor for his work. Using various shades of make-up, Nykvist took several days with Andersson's test shots.

Gould believed Andersson's character was influenced by Ingrid Karlebo, a woman Bergman was living with at the time, and that the film was semi-autobiographical. The sex scene was filmed on a real bed, though Bergman had pledged to use a platform. Bergman and Gould spent hours having conversations to help create the film's atmosphere.

"They had thought there could be some commerciality to me doing that picture at that time because I was, uh, so hot", said Gould later. "I was the leading male actor for a moment in the Western world, and I think that was embarrassing to him, because the way it was sold by ABC, with the beautiful picture of me and Bibi…the movie is not about a woman and a man. It was all about the woman. And it was far more revolutionary than people could even begin to think, in terms of the woman’s psyche and journey".

Andersson described her relationship with Bergman during production as tense. Actress Sheila Reid stated Bergman consulted with her about how the British apartment should look, and that her scene involved some improvisation. Rehearsals lasted from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Release
The film opened in New York City on 14 July 1971. It had a wider release on 18 August, and premiered in Stockholm on 30 August. Bergman and Andersson soon after gave an interview on The Dick Cavett Show, and Bergman married Ingrid Karlebo that year. In Sweden, the film was distributed by SF Studios and in the U.S. by Cinerama Releasing Corporation. The film screened at the Berlin International Film Festival in July 1971, and in 1972 it played at the Belgrade Film Festival.

The film aired on television in the 1980s and in 2011, the Film Society of Lincoln Center re-released it in theatres in New York City. The Criterion Collection announced a Blu-ray release in Region A for 20 November 2018, along with 38 other Bergman films, in the set Ingmar Bergman's Cinema.

Reception
The film earned rentals of $485,000 in North America and $650,000 in other countries. It recorded an overall loss of $1,080,000.

Aside from box office losses, reviews were "generally negative". Roger Ebert gave The Touch two and a half stars, calling it "an unexpected failure of tone from a director to whom tone has usually been second nature," but doubting that language was the issue. In The New York Times, Vincent Canby believed language was the problem, describing the dialogue as "lifeless translations" and the film as dull. Much of the negative attention was directed at Gould. Richard Schickel was favourable, calling the film "as mature, mysterious and disturbing as anything Bergman has done in the last few years". Gene Siskel awarded three out four stars, writing, "In The Touch, Bergman is not a magician, but a fine filmmaker presenting a small story". Other favourable reviews were written by Penelope Gilliatt in The New Yorker, Molly Haskell in Village Voice and Jan Dawson in The Monthly Film Bulletin, who wrote it was "probably the most memorable and the most moving portrait of a lady that Bergman has given us". At the Belgrade Film Festival, Andersson won an award for Best Actress.

In 2011, Richard Brody called the film "very rare and very beautiful". However, Robbie Freeling, writing for IndieWire, panned it as "a maligned work that nonetheless betrays the underlying, but univocal idiosyncrasies of its author". Time Out's review states Bergman's "analysis of human relationships is as complex as ever". The film today holds a 64% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes, based on 25 reviews, with an average rating of 6.2/10.

The Touch is, along with This Can't Happen Here one of the Bergman films Bergman himself personally disliked the most.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: The Touch (1971 film)


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User:Telcontar~enwiki

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title: User:Telcontar~enwiki


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Talk:Portland Winterhawks

Incorrect article?
Section removed from article:

 * The Portland Rosebuds were an ice hockey team based in Portland, Oregon which played in the Pacific Coast Hockey Association from 1914 to 1918. Later, the name was reborn when the Regina Capitals moved to Portland for the 1925-26 WHA season, the final one for the Western Hockey Association. In 1916 they became the first United States based team to participate in the Stanley Cup Finals. Their home arena was the Portland Ice Arena. They later were sold to Chicago and became the Blackhawks.

I removed the previous section from the article, as it appears to be meant for a different article? Maybe not? Flibirigit 03:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm, yeah. That is all factually correct to the best of my knowledge, but has absolutely nothing to do with the Portland Winter Hawks.  Seems to me that the author might have chosen to put it in this article for historical perspective on Portland hockey, but it would be better suited as a stub article of its own. Resolute 04:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * So what to do with it? Move it to Portland Rosebuds? Flibirigit 05:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I suppose not, as this is a virtually exact copy of that article already. I was searching for Portland Rose Buds last night... for no apparent reason it seems.  Guess it just needed to be pruned from the Winter Hawks article. Resolute 14:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I have reorganized the Rosebuds article, adding a note about players transferring to Chicago. Flibirigit 20:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Portlandwinterhawks.gif
Image:Portlandwinterhawks.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Fair use completed. Flibirigit 17:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:HOCKEY's diacritics compromise
It was agreed at WP:HOCKEY, that we'd hide diacritics on All North American based hockey articles. At the moment Djsasso is breaching that agreement, by forcing diacritics being shown on a player in this article's roster. GoodDay (talk) 17:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not forcing anything. I reverted using BRD. The next step is discussion. You have spent the last year arguing that our compromise is no good and both you and Dolovis made sure the the rest of the wiki weighed in on the situation saying that our compromise was not valid or binding. As such since we have a picture of the player in his official jersey which has diacritics on it. That being a reliable source for how the league officially spells his name in English it should be left as is with the diacritics. -DJSasso (talk) 17:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Will you please respect WP:HOCKEY's compromise & revert yourself? GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Please bring some facts to the discussion that support your argument for removing them. You voted to remove diacritics from players pages in Request for Moves which is against the compromise. This is my !vote against not having them in this instance which is no different from what you have done. So please bring some reliable sources or arguments that support your desired outcome. -DJSasso (talk) 17:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I already told you, I've no interest in the player bios anymore -- So stop bring it up. Is this a North American based article? GoodDay (talk) 17:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant. You need to make your case why this article shouldn't have them. -DJSasso (talk) 17:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:HOCKEY (which covers this article) has a diacritics compromise in place, which calls for diacritics to not be used on North American based articles. That compromise should be respected. GoodDay (talk) 17:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The Hockey project page seems pretty clear - no diacritics at the Hockey Team pages. A discussion should either take place at the project page to test if a change in consensus has occurred, or the consensus reached at the project page should simply be accepted.  The reasoning above by Djsasso is not making a case based on this particular team, but rather seems to be making a larger point about the "compromise".  --HighKing (talk) 18:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it's a WP:HOCKEY matter. Anyways, I'm going to follow my mentors advise & give others a chance to input. GoodDay (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Not at all. I believe this is a specific case. I think this particular page should use them for this one players name because we have reliable sources that indicate this is how this team spells his name. I am open to anyone discussing this matter. Its been advertised at this point on the talk page at the hockey project so anyone from there is able to come here and discuss the topic. -DJSasso (talk) 18:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Well ... my views on diacritics aside (and as DJ has correctly pointed out, those of us who argued that the compromise was a dead letter don't have much of a case in now defending its sanctity), if the player in question has diacritics on his Winterhawks' jersey, that satisfies one of the fundamentals we've been arguing all along - that how teams and leagues in English-language countries render their players names should be respected under WP:COMMONNAME. Since the player's name is being rendered with diacriticals, that's provably a COMMONNAME usage.  Ravenswing  18:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

 * On the roster page |here or the player's page |here of the team's web site, they omit the diacritic. So it's not like there is some consistency here. So, I'd suggest the diacritic is not a given. ʘ alaney2k  ʘ ( talk ) 19:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup I certainly do admit that. But I am guessing the player themself has a greater say on the Jersey lettering than they do on the website which is likely done by some random web editor. I am not saying which is right or wrong. But it is certainly something to consider. One of the key arguments against having them has always been the jerseys did not have them, so in an instance like this, one does have to take consideration of it. -DJSasso (talk) 20:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Other than the jersey, I think it's slim pickings for an English source with the Swiss spelling. Eliteprospects.com and IIHF does, hockeydb.com, WHL, hockeysfuture.com doesn't, and the media (Globe and Mail, Vancouver Sun, etc. don't, Camrose Canadian(surprise!) does) mostly does not. I don't think that one spelling on one jersey is the be-all end-all. We should take note of it, though. It might be a case of pick and choose which is the best spelling if you go for the jersey. Right now, I would surmise that Bartschi is the most common in English. It seems clear that his Swiss spelling is Bärtschi, but his English spelling is still unclear. Is the evidence here enough to go against the guideline? Not solid, I'd say. I'd say you are most likely in the wrong, and it was probably unnecessary to revert GoodDay if we are to stay with the guideline. To me, it looks like Baertschi will end up the most common spelling, considering the Flames and the NHL use it. I think his being picked in the first round by the NHL is what made him notable to Wikipedia. Time will tell, of course. ʘ alaney2k  ʘ ( talk ) 20:20, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Urk. Just realized. I was defending GoodDay. Help me. ;-> ʘ alaney2k  ʘ ( talk ) 20:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

 * It seems webmasters are often lazier than the print people these days. For instance, all of the print material I have from the WJHCs uses diacritics for Swiss, Swedish, Finnish and Danish names (including Bärtschi), but parts of the IIHF website does not.  On the topic, however, I would note GoodDay that the basis by which our compromise guideline stands is the argument that North American sources do not use diacritics.  It is not a concrete, never-to-be-changed rule.  However, there is an argument that usage is mixed at best.  As such, I have no issue with using either Bärtschi or Baertschi on this article.  The latter might be better for promoting harmony, however.  (Also note that "Bartschi" is incorrect, per the player's own statements in a recent issue of The Hockey News.  Simply dropping the diacritic introduces an error). Resolute 20:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup I am happy with either Bärtschi or Baertschi and since the player themself has made a statement that Bartschi is wrong then I would definitely want it one of the other two. -DJSasso (talk) 20:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine. I suggest Baertschi. ʘ alaney2k  ʘ ( talk ) 20:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Portland Winterhawks


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohamed Naoulo

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. — Xezbeth 20:07, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Mohamed Naoulo
Non-notable, non-encylopedic. delete. --ChrisRuvolo 20:47, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, probably vanity. Martg76 21:32, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, possible vanity. Megan1967 06:01, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Talk:San Francisco Seals (ice hockey)

The California Seals team that began in the NHL was stocked by a draft conducted by the NHL. It was not the same group of players that played in the Western Hockey League at all. Another play by play announcer of the Seals was Roy Storey. He was well-known in the Bay Area at the time for his dramatic calls of Seals hockey games.

Tone / Style
This article was obviously lifted from some other source. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 23:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

 * It sure seems that way, but a web search only turned up WP-mirrors. WHat to do? - BillCJ (talk) 04:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Francisco Seals (ice hockey)


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Category:Roman Catholic Diocese of Honolulu

This is for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Honolulu. Individual churches or parishes should be put in Category:Roman Catholic churches in Hawaii


text:
Talk:Calgary Hitmen

GA
I've made some minor edits and passed the article for GA status. As someone with pretty much no knowledge in ice hockey, it seems pretty good to me. You might want to try and make the second half of the article less listy though. Other than that, good work.--The Spith 11:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I appreciate the suggestion.  I did revert one change you made, however, as the WHL describes winning percentage using a .xxx format, so .701 is more correct than 70.1% in this case.  Resolute 16:37, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Roster Changes?
Would it be appropriate to remove players that we know won't be returning next year? For example, Robin Figren was taken by Edmonton in the expansion draft, Freddie Petterssen decided to return to Sweden, and Dylan Yeo and I believe Riley Merkley will be leaving due to age. (All of this from the Hitmen's website.) Doogie2K (talk) 21:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If you like. Given how fluid junior rosters are from year to year, I felt I would rather wait until the 2007-08 roster was finalized before making changes. Resolute 21:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Doogie2K (talk) 21:26, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Junior ice hockey vs. Junior hockey#Canada
On the first line of the lead, wouldn't it be better to substitute major junior for major junior (which redirects to Junior hockey without the "ice" anyway). Like this: major junior.

In this way, the definition of "major junior" (which was new to me) is on the screen right away rather than having the reader have to scroll for it. I'd do it myself but I dislike changing any lead paragraph without discussion and besides, this is today's feature article. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 14:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It is a good thought, but having the link go straight to the #Canada section bypasses the definition of junior hockey, which I suspect is just as important for people not aware of the terminology to know. I think I will edit the lead of junior hockey to make a quick note of what major junior is, which should hopefully also respond to your question.  Cheers! Resolute 14:38, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Even better. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 18:22, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Calgary Hitmen


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Federal Wire Act

The Interstate Wire Act of 1961, often called the Federal Wire Act, is a United States federal law prohibiting the operation of certain types of betting businesses in the United States. It begins with the text:

"Whoever being engaged in the business of betting or wagering knowingly uses a wire communication facility for the transmission in interstate or foreign commerce of bets or wagers or information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers on any sporting event or contest, or for the transmission of a wire communication which entitles the recipient to receive money or credit as a result of bets or wagers, or for information assisting in the placing of bets or wagers, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

Several legal opinions and rulings have discussed whether forms of gambling other than sports betting fall within the Act's scope.

Background
After being selected to become U.S. Attorney General, Robert F. Kennedy suggested to the 87th United States Congress to pass legislation which would make interstate gambling illegal. Kennedy's goal of the legislation was to help the United States Justice Department stop organized crime from trafficking. One of the eight bills given to Congress was Senate Bill 1656—The Wire Act.

Signing
The Interstate Anti-Crime Acts were signed by the 35th President of the United States John F. Kennedy on September 13, 1961.

Applicability to gambling other than sports betting
Legal opinions have varied as to whether the Wire Act applies only to sports betting, or applies to all forms of gambling, such as lotteries and casino games.

In a 2002 letter to Nevada state officials, the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) stated its opinion that the Wire Act "prohibits gambling over the Internet, including casino-style gambling."

In 2011, the DOJ reversed its position, when the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) published a formal opinion on the scope of the Act concluding, "interstate transmissions of wire communications that do not relate to a 'sporting event or contest' fall outside the reach of the Wire Act."

The 2011 opinion noted that "the sparse case law on this issue is divided". The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2002 that the Wire Act prohibition on the transmission of wagers applies only to sports betting and not other types of online gambling. Lower courts in other circuits had reached the opposite conclusion.

In 2018, the OLC reversed its position again, with an opinion declaring that the Wire Act's prohibitions are "not uniformly limited to gambling on sporting events or contests." The decision was published on January 15, 2019, with a promise to delay enforcement of the new opinion for 90 days to "give businesses that relied on the 2011 OLC opinion time to bring their operations into compliance with federal law."

The New Hampshire Lottery Commission filed suit in February 2019 seeking to vacate the OLC's new opinion, which the Commission claimed would reduce its annual profits by millions of dollars. New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu said the state wasn't interested in negotiating an out-of-court settlement, "we're looking to win." District Court Judge Paul Barbadoro ruled in the Commission's favor, stating that the Wire Act "is limited to sports gambling", but declined to vacate the 2018 OLC opinion. The First Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the decision in January 2021.

In November 2021, International Game Technology filed a lawsuit to declare the 2018 opinion unlawful, seeking to protect itself from possible prosecution for its online lottery operations outside of the First Circuit. In September 2022, the Rhode Island District Court ruled in IGT's favor, stating that IGT could not be prosecuted under the Wire Act anywhere in the country, as the act applies only to bets placed on "sporting event or contest" and not other forms of gambling.

title: Federal Wire Act


text: Talk:Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies

title: Talk:Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies


text: User talk:216.62.101.53

title: User talk:216.62.101.53


text: Talk:PSG Berani Zlín

title: Talk:PSG Berani Zlín


text:
Clatworthy

Clatworthy is a village and civil parish in the Somerset West and Taunton district of Somerset, England. It is situated 10 mi from Wellington and four miles (6 km) from Wiveliscombe on the southern slopes of the Brendon Hills and close to the Exmoor National Park.

The Clatworthy Reservoir is run by Wessex Water and has a capacity of 5,364,000 cubic metres, supplying some 200,000 homes. It impounds the head waters of the River Tone and the surrounding area is used for walking and fishing.

History
The name of the village means the "homestead where burdock grows". The name appears in the Doomesday Book, 1086, and is the Norman version of the original Anglo Saxon name which was Clota's Wertig [farm]. The Normans changed the name to clateurde which became clatworthy and in some instances Clotworthy.

The parish of Clatworthy was part of the Williton and Freemanners Hundred.

Just west of the village, at the edge of Exmoor National Park, is the Clatworthy Reservoir, which impounds the headwaters of River Tone and supplies water to some 200,000 homes and businesses, some as far away as Yeovil. An Iron Age enclosure known as Clatworthy Castle was sited on the wooded slopes above the reservoir and there are round barrows in the north of the parish.

Governance
The parish council has responsibility for local issues, including setting an annual precept (local rate) to cover the council's operating costs and producing annual accounts for public scrutiny. The parish council evaluates local planning applications and works with the local police, district council officers, and neighbourhood watch groups on matters of crime, security, and traffic. The parish council's role also includes initiating projects for the maintenance and repair of parish facilities, as well as consulting with the district council on the maintenance, repair, and improvement of highways, drainage, footpaths, public transport, and street cleaning. Conservation matters (including trees and listed buildings) and environmental issues are also the responsibility of the council.

The village falls within the non-metropolitan district of Somerset West and Taunton, which was established on 1 April 2019. It was previously in the district of West Somerset, which was formed on 1 April 1974 under the Local Government Act 1972, and part of Williton Rural District before that. The district council is responsible for local planning and building control, local roads, council housing, environmental health, markets and fairs, refuse collection and recycling, cemeteries and crematoria, leisure services, parks, and tourism.

Somerset County Council is responsible for running the largest and most expensive local services such as education, social services, libraries, main roads, public transport, policing and fire services, trading standards, waste disposal and strategic planning.

It is also part of the Bridgwater and West Somerset represented in the House of Commons of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It elects one Member of Parliament (MP) by the first past the post system of election, and was part of the South West England constituency of the European Parliament prior to Britain leaving the European Union in January 2020, which elected seven MEPs using the d'Hondt method of party-list proportional representation.

Religious sites
The parish Church of St Mary Magdalene has a 12th-century tower. The nave was rebuilt in 1872, while the chancel was rebuilt and the tower altered between 1860 and 1883.

title: Clatworthy


text: Talk:Newcastle Vipers

title: Talk:Newcastle Vipers


text:
Talk:Dayton Bombers

Section order
Please notice that most articles for other ECHL teams, in fact most other sport teams list Season Records before Current Roster. This makes a little more sense to me for an encyclopedia page since more people would be curious about the team's historical performance rather than the current team members. Is there a reason you'd like to see the roster first? Hoof Hearted 18:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Page Layout
This page needs a lot of work done to it. I'm going to do my best to re-edit what I can, and will be grateful for any help with article bits (as I'm more of a stats and rosters guy more than anything). Whoever is doing the edits to make this page look bad, try looking at other ECHL pages for a hint at how to do it. Not being rude, just giving constructive criticism.Mbsusmc (talk) 02:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dayton Bombers


text:
Talk:Toronto Marlies

Hardware listings
I'm going to defend my revert of the hardware listings:

1) Prior to spendings hours bringing a consistent look to the AHL team pages, I openly asked for input on the format from WikiProject Ice Hockey. Please mention format changes there before making them, because there are 26 other articles that would have to be changed with it.

2) Specifying Calder Cup instead of "League championship" would be ideal, but the Houston Aeros and Chicago Wolves have also the Turner Cup, prior to the IHL merger. There were also the early days of the league and and its precursors, the Canadian-American Hockey League an original International Hockey League, before the Calder Cup Trophy was rewarded.

3) Conferences are a relatively recent concept in the AHL (1995-96), and have no real meaning. Playoffs berths are decided within divisions (top 4 in division).

ccwaters 10:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

HHOF listing
Please validate your listing of Hall of Famers that had absolutely NOTHING to do with this franchise (St. Catherines Saints -> Newmarket Saints -> St John's Maple Leafs -> Toronto Marlies), other than they played for a similar named team. These players you list played for the Marlboroughs JUNIOR hockey team which is in no way related to the present "Marlies" team. ccwaters 03:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Not sure if this is true...
I heard today from a friend who heard from a friend who heard bits from the TV that someone from this or another AHL team got slammed really hard, went to take a faceoff, and just...died. Not sure if it's true, does anyone have an idea if it is? 24.65.212.219 07:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Not true with the Marlies, but someone did die during a hockey tournament in the Toronto area last week. SFrank85 21:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Toronto marlboros.gif
Fair use rationale completed. Flibirigit (talk) 02:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Team Records
I'm wondering where the individual season records were found. I've been working on the page for Alex Foster, a current Marlies player, and he has been noted recently to have set the single-season record for short-handed goals, but I have yet to find a reliable source for this. Any help? Tstreet (talk) 19:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Dallas Eakins Nationality
In the info box the Canadian flag is beside his name, on the bottom of the page, an American one. Which is it? Should both flags be beside his name? 99.245.20.140 (talk) 23:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)Bill

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Talk:Corpus Christi IceRays (1998–2010)

Fair use rationale for Image:Corpus christi ice rays.jpg
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title: Talk:Corpus Christi IceRays (1998–2010)


text:
Talk:Lethbridge Hurricanes

Fair use rationale for Image:Lethbridgehurricanes.GIF
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 * Fair use completed. Flibirigit 16:49, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

New Logo
They have changed their logo, they no longer use the Washington Capitals type of logo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.2.246.30 (talk) 13:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

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Talk:Edinburgh Capitals

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text:
Mount Karthala

Mount Karthala or Karthola (القرطالة Al Qirṭālah) is an active volcano and the highest point of the Comoros at 2361 m above sea level. It is the southernmost and larger of the two shield volcanoes forming Grande Comore island, the largest island in the nation of Comoros. The Karthala volcano is very active, having erupted more than 20 times since the 19th century. Frequent eruptions have shaped the volcano's 3 km by 4 km summit caldera, but the island has largely escaped broad destruction. Eruptions on April 17, 2005 and May 29, 2006 ended a period of quiet.

April 2005 eruption
The eruption, which carried a risk of lava flows and deadly volcanic gas, caused the evacuation of 30,000 residents. The crater was clearly changed by the eruption. A grey field of ash surrounds the crater and the caldera itself seems larger and deeper. The crater lake, which formed after Karthala's last eruption in 1991 and once dominated the caldera, is now gone completely. In its place were rough, dark grey rocks, possibly cooling lava or rubble from the collapsed crater.

May 2006 activity
On May 29, Reuters reported that residents of Moroni could see lava spewing at the top of the volcano. Within a few days the volcanic activity subsided.

Flora and fauna
The mountain is covered by intact moist evergreen forest from 1200 metres to about 1800 metres above sea-level. Higher up the vegetation consists of stunted trees and heathland where the giant heather Erica comorensis grows. The mountain's forest is threatened by logging and the spread of agriculture. Many of the species found on the mountain are unique to the Comoros and four bird species are found only on the slopes of Mount Karthala: Grand Comoro drongo, Humblot's flycatcher, Karthala scops owl, and Karthala white-eye.

Important Bird Area
A 14,228 ha tract encompassing the upper slopes and summit of the mountain has been designated an Important Bird Area (IBA) by BirdLife International, because it supports populations of Comoros blue pigeons, Comoros fodies, Comoros olive pigeons, Comoros thrushes, Grand Comoro brush warblers, Grand Comoro bulbuls, Grand Comoro drongos, Humblot's flycatchers, Humblot's sunbirds, Karthala scops owls, Karthala white-eyes, and Malagasy harriers.

Karthala National Park
Karthala National Park protects an area of 262.14 km2 on the mountain. It was designated in 2010.

title: Mount Karthala


text:
Talk:Keying (ship)

Keying...the end of the story...
What happened next to the Keying? Did it sink or otherwise disappear?
 * Keying was sold for breaking to the firm of Redhead,Harland and Brown ( so far I dont have the date) Last U.k. references to her found ....last three weeks before leaving for foreign ports from the Mersey river,September 29.1851....abandoned remains December 1855...research ongoing in Guangzhou,assistance in english,mandarin or cantonese much appreciated. tony.edwards3@ntlworld.com

Revised
Two points:

1. The following text, taken from: 'Sea Quest' by Charles A. Borden. Philadelphia: McRae Smith Co., 1967, shows the performance of the Keying in a bit less bright light. I going to slightly revise the text in that sense.

2. From Feb 17, 1848 (leap year) to March 15 are 27 days voyage in my book.

 * Keying

 * The history of transocean junk voyages made by Westerners is a long one. Best known to early Americans and Europeans was the Keying, a three-masted, 750-ton Foochow trading vessel. First to make the voyage from China to America and on across the Atlantic to Europe under sail, the Keying was visited by Queen Victoria and other members of the royal family soon after her arrival in the Thames on March 28, 1848.
 * Keying (160-ft. LOA, 25-ft. 5-in. beam, 12-ft. draft) was purchased at Canton by twelve Englishmen, who manned her with the help of twenty-six Chinese under a Chinese captain. Her main deck "was arched," she had a raised quarter-deck, two poops, and a raised forecastle. Her foremast mea¬sured 75 feet, main mast 90 feet, and her matting mainsail was said to have a spread of 11,000 square feet. To avoid the Chinese law against the sale of a junk to a foreigner, at that time a capital offense, Keying departed quietly under Chinese colors, ostensibly for a coastwise yachting cruise. She carried the Treaty Port flags of Canton, Ningpo, Shanghai, Amoy, and Foochow, and at the masthead a long fish vane indicated "good luck to Keying."
 * The century-old junk cleared Hong Kong December 6, 1846, and had an easy passage to the Java Sea and Sunda Strait. In the Indian Ocean off Mauritius she weathered a severe southwesterly gale, the worst of the voyage. The Cape of Good Hope was rounded, and Keying made St. Helena April 17. Though bound for England, owing to strong head winds encountered after leaving St. Helena and to the mutinous state of the crew, course was changed for New York, where she arrived July 9.
 * After some months in New York and Boston, Keying cleared for England February 17, 1848. A hard passage was had all the way across. A very strong gale on February 28 washed her two boats away, split the foresail, and dam¬aged the rudder. During the difficult job of repairing the rudder, the second mate was drowned while working over the stem. Weighing approximately 7 1/2 tons, the hardwood ironbound rudder was hung in the Chinese manner without gudgeons or pintles. It drew 23 feet, required two men in fair weather, and in heavy weather had to be worked by a score of men on a luff tackle purchase.
 * Concluding sixteen months of ocean voyaging, Keying arrived off St. Aubin, Jersey, on March 15, having made better time on her transatlantic crossing than the regular steam packet. From Gravesend she went on up the Thames to London and later sailed to Liverpool and other British ports.

Complement
Why are cannons listed in the complement? AllStarZ (talk) 05:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Sailing times of Keying versus packet ships
The article incorrectly states that sailing time of 21 days was a fast time for steam packet ship. That statement should be for a sailing packet ship. The Cunard Line was averaging 11 days from America (Halifax) to Liverpool (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Cunard_Line), much faster than the Keying's time. The average sailing time of a sailing packet ship was around 23 days from New York to Liverpool, and as short as 17 days (http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924020891416/cu31924020891416_djvu.txt). Keying's time was just slightly less than average, not particularly fast. Dale Bart, USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.51.147.97 (talk) 00:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Sources for article expansion
The treatment in East Sails West: The Voyage of the Keying, 1846–1855 seems much better and more thorough than what we've got up now. — Llywelyn II   12:10, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Keying (ship)


text:
Talk:Reprogenetics

POV?
I don't think it's POV, as user Fastfission suggested, to say the end effect would be "improved population genetics." These are scientifically measurable variables, such as biological health and intelligence. This sentence is only addressing population genetics, not the value of the practice itself - which would be POV.--Nectarflowed (talk) 20:52, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * "The end effect of both practices on the gene pool would not be too different."
 * The wording is far too vague, as it currently stands it could easily be interpretted not only along ethical lines (any use of a word like "improved" is problematic, especially when applied to eugenics), but along scientific lines which are not necessarily implied. For example, there are those who argue that this sort of activity would result in increase genetic homogeniety, which in the long run would lead to a lessened ability to respond to certain types of biological situations, etc. Which would not be "improved." Furthermore, even asserting that this would necessarily raise "intelligence" or "biological health" (nebulous concepts) would run up into resistance from a variety of scientific critics (such as Richard Lewontin). So I'm putting back the way it was -- I think the current version has too much of a veneer of science though it actually contains quite a bit of imprecision. --Fastfission 02:05, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * To use more precise terms, disease genes and heretible IQ are far from nebulous concepts. Anti-genetic determinists and those who "give ideology priority over truth" (Dawkins) like Lewontin and Gould represent minority scientific opinion when expressing such views. --Nectarflowed T 17:30, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * If you want to say, "would reduce the incidence of genetic disease and potentially affect hereditable IQ," that would be fine with me. Gould's approaches were based less on being anti-genetic determinist than in showing how ideological genetic determinists were misapplying statistical techniques in promotion of their own ideologies (ideology goes both ways, you would surely admit). Lewontin is a more complicated case but he's still consistently cited by population geneticists for his views on the subject. --Fastfission 20:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * When inserting your above sentence, I substituted 'genetic IQ' for 'heritable IQ,' as the former is more common, according to a google search. Yes, ideology goes both ways.  My only concern about anti-genetic determinist positions is that they may sometimes, as Pinker has criticized Gould and Lewontin's position for, be based on politics rather than science. Best, Nectarflowed T 09:20, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure, but Pinker's throwing stones in glass houses with comments like that -- or is he the noble scientist, clear of sin, striving for purity and truth, the beacon of humanity? ;-) Personally I've never read a scientist who wrote about larger interpretations of heredity that I didn't think was largely motivated by their own underlying ideas about people and society. There are obviously varying degrees of intellectual rigor and honesty but I think you see my point (I don't think Gould or Lewontin violate those any more or less than Pinker does). --Fastfission 1 July 2005 02:40 (UTC)

Notability sources?
I'm suspious that this word, a neologism invented in 1997, has not sufficiently caught on for Wikipedia to have an article about it. Where has Dr. Silver's book been reviewed? Who else now uses the term? How often has it appeared in print, and in what sources? I'm not putting this up for AfD at the moment, because I think these may be answerable questions, but the are very important issues, and I would urge the main authors(or anyone who wishes) to find and add some sourced mentions of the word and reviews of Dr. Silver's book to the article, to beef up the appearence of notability. Thanks! JesseW, the juggling janitor 22:39, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Remaking Eden was a bestseller (has even been reprinted in a wonderfully tacky "airport book" format) and the word is currently used in the literature on bioethics. Google Print has at least 20 other books which reference the term in its database, and Google Scholar shows it in well over 120 different articles. I think it certainly satisfies Wikipedia notability requirements.--Fastfission 23:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Great; I'll look into verfiying and formatting these facts for inclusion into the article. Thanks for the quick response. JesseW, the juggling janitor 00:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Improving the article
Added a paragraph, because the article seems a bit lopsided. Would it help to give a neutral definition first of what it is, then a separate section on Silver's critique of it, then one on critiques of Silver? I'd also like to mention a familiar argument but can't find a source. A: "You shouldn't be able to use reprogenetics." B: "My family's got sickle cell/Tay-Sachs/etc.; I want to avoid having a sick kid." A: "Then you shouldn't breed." The Silver-style argument against reprogenetics is itself an argument for legally-imposed eugenics! Hence my comment on framing the issue in terms of reproductive freedom. --Kris Schnee 16:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I've removed your paragraph since it is simply repeating the second paragraph of the criticisms section (Did you click on the link called parental obligation?). However, we could improve the latter. --Loremaster 17:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Speciation
"Towards the end of Silver's book he speculates that the GenRich and the "Naturals" could, over time, even become separate species, unable to interbreed. However, Silver now accepts the criticism made by evolutionary biologists that speciation cannot occur without reproductive isolation and is therefore unlikely to happen." I think it has recently been proven that speciation does occur in non-isolated populations, there was sth about it in "nature" (two species of fishes in a mexican lake). Perhaps s.o. more apt than me could do some research? Tillalb 12:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)--

 * Were the two species of fishes unable to interbreed? The reason I ask is because I wonder whether or not the word "species" and "speciation" is being used too loosely. I may be wrong but it seems that Silver thinks that the inability to interbreed will be the clear boundary between humanity and posthumanity. --Loremaster 17:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, they were. I just found the article - it was Nicaragua, not Mexico :)

nature article --Tillalb 21:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Interesting. We need to research this more. --Loremaster 19:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Year confusion for the book "Remaking Eden".
This article currently says that the "Remaking Eden" book is 1997, however this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_M._Silver (second paragraph, first sentence) seems to say that the book is 1998. Vulpecular (talk) 15:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Reprogenetics


text: User talk:207.157.136.2

title: User talk:207.157.136.2


text:
Talk:New Jersey Devils

Updating Devils Records
Would it be okay to add the record set back in 1988 by Patrik Sundstrom (while playing for the Devils) for the most points in a NHL playoff game? It still stands today, but it was tied a year later by Mario Lemieux, so no one has broken it as of yet. The information is listed on Sundstrom's own wiki page, so its not new information. DeadEndX (talk) 18:08, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Radio Stations
Would it be worth adding the overflow radio stations that carries Devils broadcasts? Anyone know what the rules are for overflow games? Since moving from WABC to WFAN, it's no longer as easy as going to Radio Disney (1560) to find the broadcast. Sme3 (talk) 15:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not really. WFAN is the flagship and produces the broadcast even if it is on WBBR or WWJD. I see the additional stations as non-notable trivia. --Michael Greiner 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Updating playoff-clinching seasons
There is a line in the first paragraph which reads: Under current general manager Lou Lamoriello, the Devils have made the playoffs in 18 out of the last 20 seasons, including each of the last 11. At what point is it safe to include the 2008-09 season (which would increment all of these numbers by one)? Ordinarily, we don't include the present year for statistics but there would be a notation to that effect. Such a notation would seem out of place in the first paragraph. -sme3 (talk) 20:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Text color in infobox and other boxes
The color of the headline text in the infobox and some of the boxes towards the bottom of the article (with a red background) have been changing back and forth between white and black for quite awhile. Right now, the colors are inconsistent (white-on-red at the top, black-on-red at the bottom). What color should it be? Personally, I think white-on-red is more legible, but I don't know if there's a policy. -Sme3 (talk) 12:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It is supposed to be the main team colours. So it should be black-on-red. -Djsasso (talk) 13:26, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, here we go at it again. PLEASE, lets reach some consensus before changing it back and forth!  There are three colors (red, white, black -- in that order according to the article infobox), so let's reach some sort of consensus here about what it should be.  Personally, I think white on red is easiest to read. -Sme3 (talk) 00:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said before it should be the two main colours, ie black an red. White is part of the colours for every team. But yes white on red might be easier to read, however all other teams seem to follow the two main colours leaving out white. I am not even sure why white is listed as one of the colours to be honest. The only reason it gets changed is someone new comes along who doesn't realize we have a colouring scheme for all the NHL teams. Really its not a big deal to just revert an move on. -DJSasso (talk) 03:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Regardless of what the Devils' official colors are, or the practice on other teams' Wiki pages, our primary concern should be legibility. Black letters on a red background are difficult to read. That's why on the Devils' own website, wherever there's a red background they generally use white text. Also, we (Wikipedia) should be emphasizing our independence and objectivity. Using a team's colors in an article — except where necessary to inform readers of what those colors are — sends the wrong message. —D. Monack talk 21:05, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup. Readability should always trump colour coordination.  If there are concerns that red and black make it hard to read, then this should be a no brainer.  Go with Red and white. Resolute 21:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I can accept the concept of using the team colors, but exactly what are the team colors? If you look at their uniforms, they have white lettering on a red background (or red lettering with a black border on a white background).  Under the assumption that we aren't using the white background, I would think the white lettering/red background is as close as you get to team colors. -Sme3 (talk) 01:12, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

POV Flag
This section is ridiculously biased and has nothing to do with the Devils style of play, it's more a rip on the team. Also to the above poster, you say that Lemaire is going to 'bring the trap back'. The trap never left, every team plays at one point or another. You clearly dont watch hockey if you think the trap is an embarrasment and is going to ruin the league because like I said before, every team is doing it.

"This style of play, coupled with mediocre attendance and television ratings that continue to plague the franchise (despite the organization having a perennially successful on-ice product) led the team to be chastised by the media and hockey purists for "making the NHL boring".

What does any of this have to do with their style of play? 'Boring' is in the opinion of people and what do attendance and television ratings have to do with a section about style of play, they clearly do not belong their. If these are so called hockey purists, then apparently they don't recognize the Canadien teams of the 1970s either, because they also played the trap. Sound defensive hockey and fundentals is more of a purist hockey vision than a 6-5 game.

The section also claims that "although the Devils have twice led the Eastern Conference in Goals scored, once leading the NHL in goals scored (295 GF in 2000–2001)" and then again "Devils coach Larry Robinson asserted that the Montreal Canadiens (who also won the Cup many times) he played on in the 1970s used a form of the trap, though it did not have a name", "Under Brent Sutter, the team adopted less of a trap and more of a transitional, aggressive forechecking style of play which also emphasized puck possession and instilled the cycle to start the 2007–2008 season."

All three of those quotes are contradictions to the original arguement that the Devils are the only team to ever play the trap, and that their style of play is original. EVERY TEAM in the NHL plays the trap at some point or another, and during the late 90s to the lockout every team played like that, the Devils just mastered it.

I vote to remove this section or it definitely needs a revamp. 69.115.47.105 (talk) 04:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The section doesn't claim they are the only team to do it. It just says that it is what they are known for. Which is compeltely accurate. You ask any hockey fan the type of hockey the devils play and this is what they will tell you. This entire section is well cited. And this is a Featured Article which means it has been deemed one of the best articles on wikipedia. In other words that people deemed it to not have issues with point of view etc. -DJSasso (talk) 16:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Then how does mentioning the teams 'medicore' attendance and TV ratings have anything to do with their style of play? How come it fails to mention that they are in the top 10 for NHL TV ratings and an increase in attendance the past few years? That doesn't seem very neutral to me, more like a dig on the team. The section is titled 'style of play', is it not?

 * The Devils arrived in an already saturated market in 1982 with the Rangers, Flyers, and Islanders taking up a majority of the fanbase. Just like the Yankees/Mets and Jets/Giants most people already rooted for the Rangers in North Jersey and the Flyers in South Jersey. THIS is why the Devils suffered from medicore attendance and TV ratings, you can't just tell someone to root for a new team overnight. The children of these parents are most likely going to be fans of the same team too, as they will be brought up this way. The Devils had to grow their fanbase through youth hockey programs, reaching out to new fans of the sport, and that is not an easy task. Most of the Devils fanbase was young and they are just now starting to able to consistently buy tickets to the They had the most sellouts in franchise history this year and they are 7th in ratings in the entire NHL. I would say this directly contradicts the fact the 'boring trap' (since it's only boring when the Devils play it, when Pittsburgh wins a cup with it, it is called 'solid team defense') is correlated to the TV ratings and attendance.

 * I'm sure other team fans were very bored as the Devils just kept winning, so I don't understand why these opinions are valid. 69.115.47.105 (talk) 17:35, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I concur with the anon that the section does not read as very balanced, and I Do not think we can dismiss the concern just because the article is an FA. It's been a couple of years since it was so promoted, it may be time for a reassessment, one that accounts for the POV concerns in this section. Just because an article was once promoted t. fA doesn't mean it should never change, especially when new contributors with fresh eyes raise valid concerns. oknazevad (talk) 19:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that the paragraph does not say what you think it does. It says the their style of play combined with the mediocre attendence and tv ratings led people to call their style of hockey boring. And that is true, I don't think a game goes by that they are playing where it is not mentioned. It would actually be more POV to remove this sort of information than to have it. Because this was a constant topic of discussion for years (and still is) in hockey articles and on hockey shows. We don't cut out information just because it might make fans of a specific team unhappy. Its well sourced information, and it would be extremely POV to remove it, especially considering its probably the most defining fact about this francise if you ask any hockey fan across north america. (as for the Penguins playing the trap that is amusing...they don't even remotely play the trap...if anything they play the exact opposite of the trap) I am also curious where you are getting your ratings numbers from. Last time I heard them quoted on TV (and I would have to find a source before I ever thought about putting it in the article) was that they were something like 25th in the league as far as ratings go. -DJSasso (talk) 19:07, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Please watch the Stanley Cup finals again, the Penguins had it on lock down. Every team plays the trap. They drop 4 back and clog the neutral zone up in tight playoff games. http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/your-final-nhl-local-tv-ratings-and-viewership-rankings-in-the-us/ http://devils.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=527991&cmpid=rss-News%20in%20English68.192.196.44 (talk) 18:37, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

small mbox
I can provide screenshots for the small mbox issue, if this issue is really important to you. — V = I * R (talk to Ohms law) 01:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The smaller box is indeed standard on all NHL articles, as well as MLB and NBA ones (the NFL and MLS use an infobox that incorporates the link).So I'm going to change it back to align the Devils article with the rest of the NHL articles.oknazevad (talk) 01:58, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That may be, I'll have to check out some other articles. I don't see that as a good reason to retain a version which causes a technical issue, though. As a compromise, I've moved the mbox to the season-by-season section. — V = I * R (talk to Ohms law) 02:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no trouble with that, though others might, since the use of the small box and placement is part of the standard format of NHL articles. This Kay be something to bring up at the relavant wikiproject talk page, as this is a Featured Article (cool, huh), so they would definately want to be kept abreast of such a change.
 * I will say that I also prefer the smaller box because the big one is just so large and domineering, that I feel is should be saved for the sort of articles that appear on the current events section of the main page, in other words the sort of life changing event that will draw thousands of page views within hours, not something as routine as an ongoing NHL season. If the Devils wind up winning the cup (a really good possibility the way they're playing. To which I say "yea!"), then we'd need the big tag, in large part because the page would need major changes. Those aren't needed for routine games, so they don't need the big tag.oknazevad (talk) 03:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Although I'd have never touched it if it didn't cause the text in the lead to start overlapping the infobox, I must admit that the comment about the obtrusiveness of the large mbox is spot on. I actually find even the small one, when located in the lead, to be fairly obtrusive (even aside from the issue it creates with the text). I also agree that if they do win the cup (fingers crossed!) then we'll need to change or add a hatnote mbox at the top again. Regardless, it may have taken a shootout, but at least we beat the damn Rangers! — V = I * R (talk to Ohms law) 04:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see now that people have been removing the box from various articles. I would very much like to see a screenshot, because I have never noticed an issue with the box on multiple articles, computers, resolutions and browsers. Resolute 04:21, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * and if I find the time or inclination, I might try to integrate the link into the main infobox. Resolute 04:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll get you one... although, right now Microsoft happens to be pushing a Windows update to me, and I need to go so I can get up in the morning, so give me ~20 hours. — V = I * R (talk to Ohms law) 04:30, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I am curious too because I have never seen this issue on the multiple browsers I test pages on on. I currently am running firefox 3.5.7 on winXP and it doesn't do this. I am curious if this is something unique to your particular computer? I am also curious what resolution you are running as I just ran through all the ones I am capable of at the moment on this computer and never got an overlap? -DJSasso (talk) 14:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've also moved other uses below the infobox as I have noticed in the past that it can cause such things. Perhaps that was the real culprit. -DJSasso (talk) 14:33, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think the link should be right near the top. Was thinking we should add a line to the infobox, either right above, or right below the logo, that points to the current season article. Resolute 15:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that's an outstanding idea (putting the text and link in the infobox). As for my rig, I actually have two systems here, and three monitors (2 different sized LCD's, and one CRT). The problem seems to occur regardless of what setup I use. Anyway, putting the otheruses below the infobox seems to have done the trick. It still sort of bugs me that the mbox isn't the same size as the infobox, which causes a word or two to be shown over the infobox, but that's a minor quibble. — V = I * R (talk to Ohms law) 15:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah Resolute, I don't think anyone would have a problem adding it to the infobox. I would say probably right below the logo. -DJSasso (talk) 15:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Incorporating a "current season" link into the teams infobox, which, as I said above, is done for NFL and soccer teams, is probably the best way to go. But that'd have to be done at the project level, as the infobox is a standard template used on all NHL teams, I I believe other leagues as well. So one of us should mention it there. Ohm, I nominate you since you promted the whole conversation.. (PS we should probably try to get the same thing done for the NBA and MLB articles, too.oknazevad (talk) 16:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries, Resolute and I edit as part of the project extensively. Its come up before as something we should think of doing, its just been pushed to the back burner a few times. Once some code is created it will be mentioned. As for the other projects its up to them, I rarely try to get other projects to match ours as some of them get pretty confrontational about other sports projects suggesting how they do things. -DJSasso (talk) 16:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sample created and WT:HOCKEY notified. -DJSasso (talk) 17:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Devils Dancers
Why isn't the Devils Dancers mention in this article when they are part of the New Jersey Devils Culture and Entertainers between period.--Mr. Unknown (talk) 02:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably for the same reason nobody writes about the games teams run in intermissions to keep the fans entertained: it's not-notable, trivia and quite irrelevant to the team itself. Resolute 19:53, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

File:1995Devils.jpg listed for deletion
A file used in this article, File:1995Devils.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the  to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. --SkotyWATC 01:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Recentism
The last few seasons are starting to get bloated on this article and much of it could probably be cut out to the individual season articles. Anyone up for the challenge? -DJSasso (talk) 16:01, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's my thought that the History part should be split out as History of the New Jersey Devils. With a little spit and polish, it could probably requalify for FA with little trouble.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:26, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Please remove Zach Parise
its a personal issue to us all — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcbain942 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but no. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and as such, attempts to represent history as it was.  We do not alter the record to suit the point of view of the fans. Resolute 18:46, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Zach Parise was scarcely the first free agent ever to leave a team, and certainly won't be the last. (Come to that, I've noted that the Devils, themselves, sign other teams' UFAs.)   Ravenswing   03:24, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Alternate captains
Jagr is currently wearing an A against the Rangers, and I remember him wearing one another time this year, but it appears he is not a regular appointee. With Salvador out last year and this, theyve had 3 As and now with Elias out, it looks like Jagr is taking the third A. I cant find any sources in a google search, but I can see it on screen. Should we update this or make some note of it?--Metallurgist (talk) 01:35, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * In general, we often note only the permanent alternates (at locations such as List of current NHL captains and alternate captains or a team season article such as 2013–14 New Jersey Devils season). It is quite frequent that a player will wear an A for a game or two due to injury of one of the three regular captains/alternates, so it can become confusing and messy to try and track these short term assignments.   Though, of course, if a source says that Jagr wears/wore an A for a reasonable length of time, it would make sense to add that note to his article.  Cheers! Resolute 15:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Article issues
This article currently has a variety of issues that make me concerned about its' status as a featured article. A lack of proper citations, some dead links, unreliable sources, and prose issues. Before a featured article review, the idea is a talk page discussion should take place, so that leaves me here. This article needs a lot of work to meet the current featured article standards. Is anyone willing to put in the work?  G loss  22:00, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Even as a Rangers fan, I'd be interested in working on the article in my spare time. I think that a lot of the problems could be solved by forking the current history content into a History of the New Jersey Devils article and cutting back on what's presented here. That would take care of the weight issues noted at the (delayed) FAR and make the article a bit easier to source. I'm going to be busy in real life for the next couple of weeks, so I wouldn't object if the FAR was resumed in a week or so, though I'll try to do what I can in the meantime. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:11, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know that the team has even been around long enough to need its own history page. Most of the bloat could probably be moved to season pages since that is what they are for and they are often neglected badly when it comes to adding prose. That being said, I wouldn't have a problem with a fork. -DJSasso (talk) 23:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * At 40 years, I think a fork is justifiable. The article is nearing 100kb as it is, so a size-based split is also warranted.  Also, as I noted on the now paused FAR, I'd be willing to help with copyedits if someone's willing to do the work on the references and sourcing (and probably the recentism as well). Resolute 00:22, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I decided to be bold and create a new article with the current history content (with properly attribution, of course). The first paragraph of the history section here has been redone, and if you like the work you can expect more of it in the days/weeks to come. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 22:43, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

About that last statement you removed for the jerseys in 2007–08, I found this - if you think it's worth re-adding. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.  G loss  03:14, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I added the sentence back with the source. Thanks for finding that! Giants2008  ( Talk ) 02:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Hall of Fame revert
This text was quite superior to what is there now; it was reverted with no discussion, although it had consensus at Featured article review/New Jersey Devils/archive1. I suggest restoring it. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:21, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I responded at the FAR, having not been proper pinged by it. I'll repeat what I said there, in brief. The prose version is a choppy wall of text that is too long to read comfortably and lacks cohesion and flow in the paragraph. It doesn't work as one big paragraph, and if it's going to be broken up because of that, it should just be a set of bullet points, because no matter how it's formatted it still reads like a list. oknazevad (talk) 02:16, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure I see a problem turning it into prose, the Calgary Flames featured article does a good job of it for example. -DJSasso (talk) 12:31, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oknazevad, the FAR is linked at the top of this page. For this article to pass FAR, it needs to be stable (see WP:WIAFA, 1e), so reverting against consensus can endanger its featured status.  Do you have the FAR watch listed?  DJsasso, you might want to look over the FAR as well ... it has been four months of work to get to this point!  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 12:33, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

, there was an edit before I tidied up the prose in the list that may need review ... I didn't want you to miss it since I edited right after it. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 12:46, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find any sources to support that, and a number retirement for such a prominent player should have something out there that is sufficient for our purposes. The edit has been undone. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 02:14, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Wording in the lead paragraph
Hello, I am writing this message to ask other editors about a proposed edit change? I am requesting to change the wording in the lead paragraph of the New Jersey Devils article to this version. Specifically, the reason why I am proposing this edit change is because I feel like it reads better, and I also feel like an average reader of the New Jersey Devils article would maybe think it reads better too. I am writing this message in order to try to reach WP:CONSENSUS with other editors as to how the lead paragraph should be written. Please feel free to respond to this message. I'm not expecting to claim ownership; rather, I'm intending to start a dialogue and reach consensus as to how the lead paragraph should be written. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 07:59, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I find the current version reads better. However, if others prefer your proposed changes? then so be it. GoodDay (talk) 08:14, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I also think that the current version is perfectly fine. And as one user wrote Please do not remove this link; this article has been subject to featured article review within the past few months, and no FA article reviewer objected to this important definitional link. Therefore, I think no changes should be made. – Sabbatino (talk) 14:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems that the changes worked their way back into the article. I don't have an issue with the first couple of adjustments, but there is a "Rockies. The Rockies..." as a result. I've never liked this type of structure, in which a word ends a sentence and appears at the start of another, and the regular FA reviewers don't care for it much either. I'll go ahead and make an edit to fix that, if it's okay. Also, I'm happy to see that the East Rutherford link was restored. At the FA level countries and big cities are often left unlinked, but I think a link is useful in this case. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 18:13, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

"Angels" April Fools 2016
Just a notice, the Angels thing is a very elaborate April Fools Day prank, please do not change the article, because as far as I am aware the Devils are not actually becoming the Angels. 2601:18C:C100:7090:6C72:C9D4:E7DA:3AAA (talk) 19:30, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

One Jersey Network
Should the Radio and TV section be updated to include the One Jersey Network? Fishnet37222 (talk) 19:23, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

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title: Talk:New Jersey Devils