text:
Donald Mackay, Baron Mackay of Drumadoon

Donald Sage Mackay, Baron Mackay of Drumadoon, PC (30 January 1946 – 21 August 2018) was a British judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland, and a Lord Advocate, the country's senior Law Officer. He was also one of five additional Lords of Appeal in the House of Lords, where he sat as a crossbencher.

Early life
Mackay was born in Aberdeen in 1946, to Donald George Mackintosh Mackay and Jean Margaret Mackay, and educated at the private George Watson's College, Edinburgh. He was the brother of the BBC news reporter Alan Mackay.

He studied at the School of Law of the University of Edinburgh (LLB, LLM), and at the School of Law of the University of Virginia (LLM).

Mackay was admitted as a solicitor in 1971 and practised for five years with Allan McDougall & Company SSC, becoming a member of the Society of Solicitors in the Supreme Courts of Scotland in 1973, before being admitted to the Faculty of Advocates in 1976. From 1982 to 1985, he served as an Advocate Depute, a prosecutor in the High Court, and took silk in 1987. From 1988 to 1992, he served as a temporary sheriff, and from 1989 to 1995 sat on the Board of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority.

Government
In 1995, he replaced Thomas Dawson as Solicitor General for Scotland on the other's appointment as a judge of the Supreme Courts of Scotland, and later that year succeeded Lord Rodger of Earlsferry as Lord Advocate, on the other's appointment as Lord President of the Court of Session and Lord Justice General, the most senior judge in Scotland. He was duly created a life peer on 13 December 1995, as Baron Mackay of Drumadoon, of Blackwaterfoot in the District of Cunninghame, and became a Privy Counsellor in 1996. Prior to Scottish devolution in 1999, the Lord Advocate was a political appointment, therefore the Conservative defeat in the 1997 general election, saw Mackay replaced by Labour's Lord Hardie. Between May 1997 and March 2000, he combined practice as a senior counsel with an active role in the House of Lords as Opposition Spokesman on Scotland and Constitutional Affairs.

The bench
Mackay was appointed a judge of the Court of Session and High Court of Justiciary, Scotland's highest courts, in March 2000. Mackay was also one of five members of the House of Lords, in addition to the twelve Lords of Appeal in Ordinary, eligible to form the quorum of the House required to hear and determine judicial business under ss.5&25 of the Appellate Jurisdiction Act 1876. In October 2009 the judicial functions of the House of Lords were transferred to the new Supreme Court of the United Kingdom under Part 3 of the Constitutional Reform Act 2005, with the twelve Lords of Appeal in Ordinary becoming the inaugural Justices of the Court. While ss.38 and 39 allow for additional judges to sit in the Court, Mackay's position as a serving judge of the Outer House of the Court of Session excluded him from both of these provisions.

He retired from the membership of the House of Lords on 17 January 2017.

Personal life and death
In 1979, Mackay married Lesley Ann Waugh. They had three children.

Mackay died from dementia at a nursing home in Edinburgh on 21 August 2018, at the age of 72.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:Dadyd

Dadyd is the nickname of the Norwegian guy, Daniel, who is a Wikipedia user.

Other nicknames are Dalla and DaCooL

title: User talk:Dadyd


text:
Patriarchate of Venice

The Patriarchate of Venice (Patriarchatus Venetiarum), also sometimes called the Archdiocese of Venice, is a Latin Church ecclesiastical territory or patriarchal archdiocese of the Catholic Church in Venice, Italy. In 1451 the Patriarchate of Grado was merged with the Bishopric of Castello and Venice to form the Archdiocese of Venice.

The ordinary of the archdiocese is the Patriarch of Venice, who has traditionally been created a cardinal in consistory by the Pope. Immediately upon installation in office, however, the Patriarch of Venice has the right to wear scarlet vesture (like a cardinal) whether or not he has yet been elevated to the College of Cardinals. The mother church of the archdiocese is the St Mark's Basilica in Venice.

As a metropolitan see, the Patriarch of Venice is the metropolitan of the Ecclesiastical Province of Venice. Its suffragan dioceses include Adria-Rovigo, Belluno-Feltre, Chioggia, Concordia-Pordenone, Padova, Treviso, Verona, Vicenza, and Vittorio Veneto.

Reference works

 * (in Latin)
 * (in Latin)
 * pp. 946–947. (Use with caution; obsolete)
 * (in Latin)
 * (in Latin)
 * (in Latin)
 * (in Latin)

title: Patriarchate of Venice


text:
Talk:Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery

the last link should be removed, looks like spam
 * Removed. --Gmilza

WP:Naming
it is wikipedia policy to use the most common name for an article. in this case gastric bypass surgery would be much more common. I'm stating my intention WP:Be bold and do this soon; although I will wait a day or two to see if someone has an objection. Themindset 01:46, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery


text:
Maer, Staffordshire

Maer is a rural village and civil parish in the Borough of Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire, England, to the west of the pottery manufacturing city of Stoke-on-Trent.

The parish church of St Peter dates from 1612. It has a funeral monument to Sir John and Lady Bowyer.

Maer's main feature is the large 17th-century stone-built country house, Maer Hall, built on a slope above a small lake, or "mere", which gave the house and estate its name. The hall became the home of Josiah Wedgwood II and was frequently visited by his nephew Charles Darwin, who went on to marry Josiah's daughter Emma at St. Peter's Church, which stands higher on the hillside, close to the hall. When she was young, Emma helped her older sister Elizabeth with the Sunday School, which was held in Maer Hall laundry, giving sixty village children their only formal training in reading, writing and religion. The grave of Josiah Wedgwood II and his wife Elizabeth in the churchyard has a view down over the hall.

Nearby is Berth Hill, an Iron Age hillfort.

title: Maer, Staffordshire


text: User talk:65.6.202.218

title: User talk:65.6.202.218


text:
User:Chad Bryant

This account was created in order to impersonate and attack another User. It has been permanently blocked. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 09:53, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Chad Bryant


text:
Jaume Bartumeu

Jaume Bartumeu Cassany, GCIH (born 10 November 1954) is an Andorran lawyer and politician, who served as the prime minister of Andorra from 2009 to 2011. He was a founding member of the Social Democratic Party (PS) in June 2000, in which he held the position of first secretary between 2000 and 2004. He was the leader of the opposition at the General Council between 2005 and 2009.

Political career
In May 2008, he was designated candidate for head of government at the 2009 General election by his party.

Prime Minister
In the parliamentary election held on 26 April 2009, Bartumeu's party was the clear winner with a 45,03% of the national list vote and the majority in 4 of the 7 parishes, giving to the Social Democratic Party a relative majority of 14 seats out of 28. He was therefore the only candidate that could achieve the necessary majority to be invested head of the government of Andorra during the parliamentary vote held on May 29, 2009. Following the ApC's decision to abstain, however, he failed to be elected in that session (he received 14 votes and Joan Gabriel of the Reformist Coalition 11; 15 were required); another vote was set for 3 June 2009. He was confirmed on 3 June 2009 with a simple majority of 14 votes, and took office on 5 June 2009.

His party was heavily defeated in the 2011 parliamentary election.

Offices held

 * 2001–2009 : Member of the General Council, head of the Social-Democrat parliamentary group. Member of the Andorran delegation to the Council of Europe from 2004 to 2008.
 * 1993–2001 : Member of the General Council, head of the Nova Democracia parliamentary group. Member of the Andorran delegation to the Council of Europe from 1995 to 2001.
 * 1992–1993 : Member of the General Council elected by Andorra-la-Vella. Member of the legislative commission in charge of the constituent process.
 * 1990–1992 : Minister of Finance, Commerce and Industry.

Other positions

 * Founder of the Culture and Human rights commission of the Andorran Bar Association in 1983.
 * Member of the Andorran Bar Council between 1986 and 1989.
 * Member of the Executive Committee of the International Association of Young Lawyers (A.I.J.A.) from 1987 to 1990.
 * Vice-president of the Human Rights sub-commission of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in 2004.
 * President of the Council of Europe sub-commission about criminal problems and fight against terrorism in 2005. Re-elected at this position in April 2006 and January 2007.
 * Representative of the members of parliament of the Council of Europe at the Group of States Against Corruption (GRECO)
 * Since January 2007, he is, in addition, member of the bureau for the socialist group at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.

Honours

 * PRT Order of Prince Henry - Grand Cross BAR.png Grand-Cross of the Order of Prince Henry, Portugal (5 March 2010)

title: Jaume Bartumeu


text:
Maer, Cornwall

Maer is a coastal hamlet in north Cornwall, England, United Kingdom. It is situated one mile (1.6 km) northeast of Bude at in the civil parish of Bude-Stratton (where the 2011 census population is included.).

The hamlet contains the only "known probable tithe barn" in Cornwall, which was extensively restored and modernised following a purchase in 2012. Its restoration, by architects The Bazeley Partnership, was featured on the Channel 4 programme Homes By the Sea.

The National Trust maintains Maer Down and Maer Cliff immediately west of the hamlet. The South West Coast Path runs along the clifftop past Maer.

title: Maer, Cornwall


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thomas Kevin Cullerton

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD 21:20, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thomas Kevin Cullerton

 * Delete. Not notable, seems to be a CV. Original Poster: If you create an account and log in, this would be great for your user page. Geldart 21:53, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Not notable. -- oo64eva (AJ) (U @ 22:22, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, possible vanity. Megan1967 07:18, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

The board received a mail from the Thomas Kevin Cullerton, stating

Dear Wikipedia:

Someone has misused my name at www.wikipedia.com, my name is now showing up on your website and in search engines referring to your website:

Please remove any reference to my name on all wikipedia websites.

Best regards, Thomas K. Cullerton address anonymised

I have informed him of the deletion.

Anthere 08:37, 14 May 2005 (UTC)


text:
File:Manhuntbox.jpg

Box art for the video game Manhunt. Source:

Summary
Rationale for this image:

 * The cover is used to represent a well known and significant video game
 * This image has been used in several websites, and so use on Wikipedia does not make it significantly more accessible or visible than it already is
 * The image is being used in an informative way and should not detract from the game
 * The image does not limit Rockstar Games' ability to sell the game
 * The only purpose of the image is to help describe the game Manhunt (video game) and no other purpose

title: File:Manhuntbox.jpg


text:
William Whittingham Lyman

William Whittingham Lyman (born July 28, 1850, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania – 1921) was the son of Theodore Benedict Lyman. He built the Lyman winery, now known as the El Molino winery. At one point Lyman owned the property of what is now the Bale Grist Mill State Historic Park. He helped found Grace Episcopal Church of St. Helena, California. Lyman was a Lieutenant Colonel in the State militia, and was a member of Governor Bartlett's staff and an Aide-de-camp. He was married in Sacramento, in 1880, to Mrs. Sarah A. Nowland. They had two sons: Theodore Benedict, Jr. and William Whittingham Lyman Jr.

Career
He resided at his birthplace until 1860, when he, with his parents, went to Europe and remained there for ten years. During this time, he was educated at the School of Mines, at Freiberg, Saxony, and at the University of Berlin. In December 1870, he returned to America, and in 1871, he came to California, where he engaged in wine-making, general farming, milling etc. Mr. Lyman was the Secretary of the Napa Valley Wine Company, one of the most extensive companies engaged in the wine business in the State.

title: William Whittingham Lyman


text:
User talk:Rangek

Precision tests of QED
Precision tests of QED

Its is counter intuitive but the difference comes not from the accuracy but from the quantum scale involved.

Its a hard one but will do my best to simplify when I have the time, accept my apologies for the confusion this has caused.

The key phrase is on Quantum electrodynamics " (and limited by experimental errors) "

 * What does that have to do with it being the most accurate theory? If we can't measure it, then it isn't. Rangek (talk) 23:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

 * The nature of the phenomenon that causes see http://xxx.lanl.gov for refs Omeganumber (talk) 01:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

 * That is not even a complete sentence. What use is a link to arXiv anyway?  There are thousands of papers there. Rangek (talk) 03:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC) Just use the Boolean Search, theres a lot of pieces to put together if you are serious about understanding this. I cant put it on a plate for you Omeganumber (talk) 12:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

However it may be better to remove the accuracy reference and replace it with the fact it has contributed more to society than ANY other field of science.

 * Holy POV and peacock words, Batman. Not that I necessarily disagree, but you are going to need some serious references for a statement like that. Rangek (talk) 23:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I was going to elaborate on the Condensed matter systems section also but this is well above a simplified explanation. Omeganumber (talk) 04:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Update: If this is acceptable please let me know

"Subjectively from a physicists point of view given the proportions involved in any quantum theory this makes QED the most accurate physical theory constructed thus far" Omeganumber (talk) 11:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Sorry, that doesn't work for me. "Subjectively" and "physics" should never appear together.  What are these proportions you allude to?  I don't understand how this is so hard.  Which ever theory makes the most accurate predictions is the most accurate.  There should be no equivocating.  Just look at the numbers. Rangek (talk) 23:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

"To clearly discuss quantum theory, learn to speak the language of quantum mechanics."

http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0610131 Omeganumber (talk) 01:49, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, please. You are speaking gobblydegook.  I am asking you to write a clear sentence that explains the relative accuracy of these theories.  If you can not do that, stop trying. Rangek (talk) 03:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

 * "Clear" thats relative to you even understanding the problem Omeganumber (talk) 12:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

 * You slay me. I understand the problem just fine.  If you can't explain it so that someone without a Ph.D. can understand it then just go away.  This is an encyclopedia meant for lay person consumption.  I have rejected scientific papers that were clearer than the collection of motley sentences you have managed to string together thus far.  Your intimation that my understanding is the issue here is laughable on many levels.  I am merely asking you to write something nearly everyone can understand.  If you can't do that, or if it is impossible to do (which can happen, but I don't think this is one of those rare instances), then we should just remove the statements from the articles.  Rangek (talk) 15:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Apologies for the tone of my recent comments, OK last try full and simple: The determination of the accuracy of QED which is in effect a perturbation theory of the electromagnetic quantum vacuum can leave more questions than answers. The determination of the accuracy is quite different to eg. determining the accuracy of mmx or spr. Parts of an electromagnetic phenomena are inaccessible to direct measurement and parts cannot be experimentally tested (eg "virtual photons" not that these would affect the accuracy its just an example), they are either are excluded from or affect the determination of the accuracy of the theory eg. The calculation.

Any references needed to add to this description would probably involve wading through a mountain of journals. If you still consider this "Gobbledygook" please delete revert. regards Omeganumber (talk) 18:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

 * MUCH better. Not perfect, but MUCH better. In light of this analysis, I think it would be best to remove any references to "most accurate theory", and maybe just settle for "one of the most accurate physical theories" or something. Rangek (talk) 20:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Used you're suggestion thanks for the feedback Omeganumber (talk) 22:35, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

 * You're welcome. And thanks for taking the time to hash all of this out. Rangek (talk) 22:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Indian Black Salt
I am really not sure if Black Salt is pure sodium chloride. In fact, it is made up of two conventional minerals, one white and the other red in colour. The second mineral is thought to be KCl. Most references mention this, but there is no reference of any chemical test.

Khmer Rouge
Arbitration has been filed, do you care to make a statement? WP:RFAR CJK 23:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Ruy Lopez
Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Ruy Lopez. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Ruy Lopez/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Ruy Lopez/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Kelly Martin (talk) 01:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Uvula Edit
It was I who edited the uvula page (it's my biggest edit so far), and I felt it was a good edit. I'll go through the edits...the first three aren't so bad.

The page calls the uvula "cone-shaped", which it can be, but not always, and not in the visuals that accompany the article. This phrase, "cone-shaped" seems to have been copied from another source.

The page later says the uvula got its name from its "grape-like shape". This also is not always true, and is not seen very much in the visuals. Other sources say that the word uvula in latin meant a swollen uvula, which do look like grapes.

I put some brackets around nasopharynx, so those who have no idea what it is can go to its page.

Here's where I got a bit bolder. It seemed so obvious to me, that I defied all of my sources. I guess I didn't consider it research because of its obviousness. The uvula simply cannot be used as a place of articulation. My guess is that people got confused because of the term "uvular", which I think is used because the terms palatal and velar were taken, and they needed a term that indicates a sound made further back, NEAR the uvula, at the very back of the soft palate. I explained this lower down in the section, in far fewer words.

I dont think the paragraph on phonetics belongs in this article. It should be on the Soft_palate page. Maybe a link from the uvula page would be appropriate.

Oh, two things wrong with the page...the main function of the uvula isn't mentioned, and I should have put brackets around my "uvular" at the bottom.

If you feel it was wrong to bring this here, I apologize. Write somethin' back.

 * I don't think defying your sources is ever a good idea. I am glad you wanted to make improvements, but you need sources if you are going to delete/change already existing material that seems reasonable.  A better place for this discussion would be that talkpage for the article in question.  You may also find that contributions from people with accounts, rather than anonymous editors are not dismissed as readily.

 * Oh, and sign you comments, please. Rangek 03:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, using the talk page doesn't work. No one pays attention until you actually start editing a page. And then they don't understand what you're doing. I just wish I could get some people on my side. If only more people were as passionate about uvulas as I am...sigh...

 * And I think defying your sources is sometimes the only reasonable position. – Misha

 * 216.254.12.114 02:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Anton LeVay
I don't deny that Anton LeVay said he was influenced by Ayn Rand. However, I have been told many times by different people that this particular list is for philosophers only. Now, if there are some individuals who are eager to identify LeVay as a philosopher but remove all statements referring to Ayn Rand as one, I think this article has some serious problems.

Also, I don't think that deleting LeVay's name is vandalism because there are people who strongly object to his presence on that list on the grounds that he doesn't belong.

Alright I guess if some people are that passionate about it, I can live with his name in the article. Adam T.

Nollywood
Hello! I came accross this news item (published just a few months back) that states :
 * In the last five years, Nigeria, Africa's most populous country, has been churning out between 600 and 2,000 films a year, becoming the third-largest film industry behind the US and India.

I, in good faith, do not mistrust the article in Economic times that you are pointing as reference, even though I cant view it. But this news item seems to directly contradict it. Also, in the ref that you provided on Cinema of India, you are comparing the 2003 output of India and US, to that of the 2006 output of Nigeria. Could you please provide a different source that backs Nollywood's claim? Perhaps from some Novergian newspapers? Thanks!-- thunderboltza.k.a.D e epu Joseph11:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Using Wikipedia for coursework
I saw your comment at /Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard and thought you might like to know that a number of teacher do use Wikipedia sucessfully, myself included. You can take a look at my user page, which has a navigation bar of links to pages associated to the work my students are doing this semester. You can also look at School_and_university_projects which is a page specifically for those teachers who want to incorporate Wikipedia in their courses in some way. Feel free to contact me if you like!Thelmadatter 17:10, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

You're kind of splitting hairs.
A bazooka is a rocket-launcher. You're both right. HalfShadow 00:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:FLAGS on Joint Direct Attack Munition
I don't see that the usage there was in violation of the policy. Can you explain?

Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 19:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

 * It is not. You can see that I undid the change seconds after I did it.   Sorry. Rangek (talk) 20:56, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Ah, Ok. I was paging through the history and missed that you'd reverted.  Sorry to bug you.  Thanks for the response!  Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Indole
No, I would put the link on the original page rather than creating a new page with no content but the link. NawlinWiki (talk) 15:16, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

 * The external link to the MSDS in the infobox worked fine for me just now. NawlinWiki (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

 * No idea -- I'm not good with the technical side of things. NawlinWiki (talk) 20:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Centre stick vs side-stick
An article that you have been involved in editing, Centre stick vs side-stick, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/. Thank you.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Ahunt (talk) 19:02, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Bond angle of water
Hi. Your edit to Water (data page) introduced a reference (Hoy 1979), but without any further details as to the paper. The reference was subsequently removed. You mention the CCCDBD in your edit summary, but it currently lists the experimental equilibrium bond angle as 104.48, without the extra two digits of precision. A question came up on the Science Reference Desk regarding the large precision of the number you included. If possible, could you edit the Water (data page) to include the full reference information for that number, so that other curious about it can find further information? Thanks. -- 174.31.194.183 (talk) 18:28, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference
Hello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have (or very recently had) enabled.

On 13 March 2011, this preference was hidden from the user preferences screen as part of efforts to prevent its accidental misuse (consensus discussion). This had the effect of locking users in to their existing preference, which, in your case, was. To complete the process, your preference will automatically be changed to  in the next few days. This does not require any intervention on your part and you will still be able to manually mark your edits as being minor in the usual way.

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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rangek


text:
Recursive filter

In signal processing, a recursive filter is a type of filter which reuses one or more of its outputs as an input. This feedback typically results in an unending impulse response (commonly referred to as infinite impulse response (IIR)), characterised by either exponentially growing, decaying, or sinusoidal signal output components.

However, a recursive filter does not always have an infinite impulse response. Some implementations of moving average filter are recursive filters but with a finite impulse response.

Non-recursive Filter Example: y[n] = 0.5x[n − 1] + 0.5x[n].

Recursive Filter Example: y[n] = 0.5y[n − 1] + 0.5x[n].

Examples of recursive filters

 * Kalman filter

title: Recursive filter


text:
Talk:Non-critical race

Needs a transition table illustration to demonstrate. Also could possibly be moved back to race hazard along with critical race. - McCart42 21:56, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

title: Talk:Non-critical race


text: User talk:68.190.94.129

title: User talk:68.190.94.129


text:
Talk:Richard Jewell

Cause of Death
Article currently states cause of death as complications to diabetes and obesity. Authorities have said that Jewel's death does not appear suspicious and that he did have health issues, so that may end up being true, but an autopsy has not been performed nor cause of death determined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.107.42 (talk) 20:22, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Update-death now being reported as resulting from complications to heart disease. I don't remember my login, so somebody needs to get source link and fix this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.107.42 (talk) 23:06, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I think it is appropriate to make mention of specific allegations, such as the Drudge Report linking the story as "The man the media killed." 75.3.225.38 00:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

"88 days in Hell"
I'm not sure if this violates the neutral tone of the article or not. If it is a qoute, could someone please provide background?

 * put it in quotes cause it is a quote from Jewell http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/sports/jewell_10-28.html

 * I think it's as neutral as the topic merits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.42.77.244 (talk) 02:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

New AP feature on 10 year anniversary
May be helpful if someone is inclined to improve this article:

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/07/23/ap2897783.html <!--

AP S S0102 OLYMPIC BOMBING JEWELL s0102 sbx AP-OLYMPIC BOMBING JEWELL AP Exclusive: Decade later, memory of being called bombing suspect still fresh in Jewell's mind Eds: Video package and interview clips available to AP Online Video Network clients. Moving on general news and sports services. By HARRY R. WEBER Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA (AP) - Richard Jewell's fortunes changed in a split second.

The security guard was initially hailed as a hero for spotting a suspicious backpack in a park and moving people out of harm's way just before a bomb exploded during a concert at the 1996 Summer Olympics.

Then the media called him a suspect and he became a public spectacle.

As the 10th anniversary nears of the July 27 blast that killed one and injured 111 others, the episode is still fresh in Jewell's mind.

"The heroes are soon forgotten. The villains last a lifetime," Jewell told The Associated Press in an exclusive interview. "I dare say more people know I was called a suspect than know I was the one who found the package and know I was cleared."

Jewell, 43, who now works as a sheriff's deputy in a rural county, says he never considered himself a hero for warning people.

"All I did was my job," said Jewell, who is trimmer than the burly man caught in the media's glare a decade ago. "I did what I was trained to do."

The frenzy that changed Jewell's life started three days after the bombing with an unattributed report in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that described him as "the focus" of the investigation.

Other media, to varying degrees, also linked Jewell to the investigation.

"There were thousands of reporters from all over the world here," Jewell said.

He was never arrested or charged, although he was questioned and was a subject of search warrants.

Eighty-eight days after the initial news report, then-U.S. Attorney Kent Alexander issued a statement saying Jewell "is not a target" of the bombing investigation and that the "unusual and intense publicity" surrounding him was "neither designed nor desired by the FBI, and in fact interfered with the investigation."

Eventually, it turned out the bomber was anti-government extremist Eric Rudolph, who also planted three other bombs in the Atlanta area and in Birmingham, Ala., that killed a police officer, maimed a nurse and injured several others. Rudolph was captured after spending five years hiding out in the mountains of western North Carolina, pleaded guilty to all four bombings last year and is serving life in prison.

Jewell said Rudolph's conviction helped, but he believes some people still remember him as a suspect rather than for the two days in which he was praised as a hero.

"For that two days, my mother had a great deal of pride in me _ that I had done something good and that she was my mother, and that was taken away from her," Jewell said. "She'll never get that back, and there's no way I can give that back to her."

He said the experience has made him distrustful of people and he rarely gives interviews.

"I can tell you for sure I'm a different person," Jewell said. "I'm paranoid. I'm cynical."

Since the Olympics, Jewell has worked in various law enforcement jobs, including as a police officer in Pendergrass, Ga., where his partner was killed in 2004 while pursuing a suspect. Jewell's lawyer, Lin Wood, confirmed that his client was honored by the city for bravery during the chase.

He gives speeches to college journalism classes about his experience with the media.

"I hate knowing what's happened and then reading about it and seeing it on the news and it being wrong, because of what happened to me," Jewell said.

He sued several media companies and settled for undisclosed amounts, but his lawsuit against The Atlanta Journal-Constitution is still pending.

Peter Canfield, a lawyer for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, said the paper to this day stands by its coverage of Jewell and it has not offered him a settlement.

"The investigation did target him and the Journal-Constitution accurately reported that," Canfield said. "There's no question but that he was the focus of the investigation and its principal suspect."

Jewell insists the lawsuits were not about making money _ he bought his mother a place to live and 73 percent of the settlement money went to his attorneys and taxes _ but about making sure the truth was told.

"I'm not rich by any means monetarily," he said. "I'm rich because of my family. If I never get there, I don't care. I'm gonna get my say in court."

These days, Jewell is married and is a sheriff's deputy in Meriwether County, about 53 miles from Atlanta, which has just 22,000 people, dusty roads and sprawling cattle pastures.

"He brings a lot of experience. You could label him a hero," said Col. Chuck Smith, one of Jewell's superiors.

Then, remembering he was talking to a reporter, Smith added with a smile: "I guess you could label him however you want."

___

Associated Press Writer Greg Bluestein contributed to this report from Greenville, Ga. Headline: AP Exclusive: Decade later, memory of being called bombing suspect still fresh in Jewell's mind Category: S Creation Date: 7/23/2006 09:49:26 Submit Date: 7/23/2006 09:50:30 By Line: By HARRY R. WEBER Title: Associated Press Writer Object Name: OLYMPIC BOMBING JEWELL ID: s0102 Source: The Associated Press Credit: (AP) File Type: text/xml

--> Woodshed 09:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Bombing
Eric Rudolph is a "self-appointed" terrorist? I've never heard that term before. Are most terrorists appointed by others? Is the intent to say that he was acting alone? Vorenus 01:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

How did his other lawsuits go?
This article needs updating by someone who knows. I wonder how much of the $500,000 he got and how much went to lawyers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.110.221.182 (talk) 08:52, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
 * The rule of thumb is that lawyers take on civil lawsuits for a 1/3 cut of the proceeds. If the precise amount is not reported, there isn't anything we can report. There have nevertheless been some updates that are worth adding. -- Dhartung | Talk 21:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

God Bless Richard Jewell and his dear mother. An innocent man who stood for truth and courage, a true hero. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.151.212.98 (talk) 19:26, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

cause of death
The previous version said the cause of death was complications related to obesity and diabetes. This is very plausible. However, there was no citation. I provided a citation. It said kidney failure and that an autopsy was pending. Therefore, I've changed the cause of death to that cited in the news report. Archtrain 20:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The last version said that he had end stage renal disease. It said the cause of death was unknown. A citation is given. Reading the citation, it says only that he had kidney problems. This could be cysts, infection, cancer, not necessarily end stage renal disease. The citation also doesn't say "unknown" cause. It said he died of natural causes. Therefore, I've changed the article to reflect what's stated in the article.

Usually, these differences are considered minor but this article is much more high profile this few days so complete accuracy and referencing statements is important. Archtrain 15:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Fix this article please
Does someone want to fix the last sentence in the article? Does someone want to fix wikipedia? It's time to quit demeaning this humble man, who did a good job in trying circumstances, and got ruined for his trouble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.184.93.61 (talk) 21:19, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Removed the "death by explosive diarrhea" line. That's pretty uncool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamsorkin (talk • contribs) 23:21, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced accusations deleted
The following unsourced accusations were deleted:

"Despite this, in the searches of Jewell's residence, which he shared with his mother, the FBI confiscated his mother's tupperware collection and family photographs. When these items were returned, many pieces of the tupperware had been broken, and the photographs were ripped apart."

They don't belong in the article.

The Tupperware was really taken by the FBI, at least that was what the media reported at the time. 70.134.229.18 12:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

missing info
The article doesn't seem to contain any pre-bombing background on Jewell right now. This is relevent, because so much of the investigation focused on how he fit the '"lone bomber" profile'. --W.marsh 18:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Rest of His Life
I believe he worked as a Deputy Sherrif. I recall a few years ago he was in the media for saving somebody's life.--Purpleslog 12:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

 * These assertions need citations. Do any exist? Willhsmit 02:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The above paragraph sounds like paranoid right-wing conspiracy theory to me. Why stop with the gays and the Clintonistas? Why not throw in the Rothschild's, extraterrestrials and the UN as well! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.7.84 (talk) 06:45, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced? Yes. Ridiculous? No.
Someone made an excision, asserting it was ridiculous and unsourced that the police would vandalize or damage evidence.

I'll agree, it was unsourced. But I do not believe it is ridiculous at all. Geo Swan (talk) 23:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Recent cartoon (S.F. Chronicle)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/23/MNASMUSSENSP.DTL -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:29, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I thought the FBI tricked him into signing a confession
If I remember right the FBI told him they were so impressed with the way he carried himself that they invited him to play the roll of a bomber who was signing a confession in a training film they were making. Is that correct or am I thinking of someone else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Backlash (talk • contribs) 08:40, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

The "Uni-Dufus"
Part of Jewel's suit against NBC included Jay Leno calling him the "Uni-Dufus" on the Tonight Show... an homage to the UNI-Bomber, sourced, amongst others: page 191 of the book "FROM SELMA TO SORROW" by Mary Stanton. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.228.104 (talk) 01:04, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Death
[as of 8-29-07 it is being reported by Atlanta websites that Richard Jewel is dead] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.28.159.23 (talk) 19:19, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced AJC Quotes Removed
Having found what looks like a compendium of Atlanta Journal-Constitution articles, none of which contain the quotes that are attributed reference-free to the paper in this article, I think these quotes should probably come out. If someone can find the quotes in Lexis-Nexis or somewhere, by all means put 'em back in with a nice, neat footnote! JimHarperDC (talk) 23:20, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Really?
How is there no mention of the congressional inquiry into this matter or the result? Were there any changes in policy as a result?

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju52836.000/hju52836_0F.htm

Sephiroth storm (talk) 16:41, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Ruling by Court of Appeals
As of April 24, 2017, 5:42PM (Alaska time), one section read, "Jewell's estate continued to press the case even after Jewell's death but in July 2011 all of its claims were ultimately rejected by the Georgia Court of Appeals. The Court concluded that "because the articles in their entirety were substantially true at the time they were published—even though the investigators' suspicions were ultimately deemed unfounded—they cannot form the basis of a defamation action."" That is not what the Georgia Court of Appeals ruled. Rather, It affirmed the trial court's rejection of all but one of the claims. Furthermore, the quote about being "substantially true" did not address all of the claims. Indeed, the trial court held that some of the quotes may have been false and defamatory, but because the trial court held Jewell to be "a limited-purpose public figure," Jewell had to also prove legal malice (i.e., that the statements were made knowing they were false, or made with a reckless disregard for the truth), and that Jewell did not meet that higher standard. Anyway, I am going to reword that section to be truthful. DavidForthoffer (talk) 01:55, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Deletion of RS-supported text
An editor deleted RS-supported text, that in large part added the second basis of the film (the first basis was already reflected). He also questioned whether it was an improvement to change "heart failure" to "heart failure." Because the editor was not him/her self clear that it was an improvement?

Edits are fine, as are deletions, but they must be reasonable. This one clearly was not.

Very odd, disruptive, and not an appropriate use of tools. --2604:2000:E010:1100:9C7C:CA0D:F601:680 (talk) 11:09, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

 * Your edit here has re-added the text be a Hero. (sic), "Fair and Accurate". Peoples was satisfied about those reporting and other unencyclopedic wording. Please be more careful. MPS1992 (talk) 13:01, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Those edits were not edits I made initially, and I agree that they are not appropriate.

That said, I was just intending to revert your unexplained other improper Twinkle deletions, and apologize if the few improper edits - a minority of that whole edit - were swept up as well.

I wasn't using Twinkle, of course -- When we use Twinkle, we also have to be extra careful. Not an excuse. But a contrast. 2604:2000:E010:1100:15CB:342D:760B:C1C6 (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Reorganizing
I've done some reorganizing, mainly to put things in more logical and chronological order, such as putting all the material re the investigation in one section. Feel free to revert if this is not desired. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 20:59, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

What did Jewell discover exactly?
A suspicious backpack, which was later found out to contain pipe bombs (as shown in the film), or did he already determine that it contained pipe bombs? Thank you, Maikel (talk) 08:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:08, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Paul-walter-hauser.webp

title: Talk:Richard Jewell


text:
Talk:Critical race

Needs a transition table illustration to demonstrate. Also could possibly be moved back to race hazard along with non-critical race. - McCart42 21:57, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

title: Talk:Critical race


text:
Franzia

Franzia is a brand of wine produced by The Wine Group, known for its box wines sold in 3 and 5-liter cartons. Franzia wines, throughout their history, were known as affordable table wines, popular in the 1960s and 1970s as "jug wine", and now as "box wine". The Wine Group is the third largest wine company in the world, behind Constellation Brands and the E&J Gallo Winery. The Franzia brand today has no business relationship with Fred Franzia of the Bronco Wine Company, known for its low-cost Charles Shaw wines. The Franzia family sold the brand to Coca-Cola in 1973 when Fred Franzia was in his early adult years; and it was sold to The Wine Group in 1981.

Teresa Franzia (born Teresa Carrara, 1879–1949) founded the Franzia Wine Company in 1906. Teresa's daughter, Amelia Franzia Gallo, was the wife of winemaker Ernest Gallo. Teresa loaned Ernest the money to start his company.

History
The brand was originally named after the Franzia family, who began growing grapes in California in 1892 and making wine in 1933 after the repeal of prohibition,  later operating as the Franzia Brothers Winery, a Central Valley winery in Ripon, California. In 1973, Coca-Cola agreed to acquire the Franzia Brothers Winery for stock valued at about $49.3 million. As part of the acquisition, the Franzias were prohibited from using their name in future winemaking businesses—The Franzia Brand, prominent on the boxed wines, is today unconnected to the family, who have subsequently opened a business called the Bronco Wine Company. In 1981, the Coca-Cola Company agreed to sell the wine business of the Coca-Cola Bottling Company of New York (which included the Franzia Brothers Winery alongside the Mogen David Wine Corporation and Tribuno Wines Inc.), in a management buyout involving the top-level managers of the bottler's wine business and the First Boston Corporation.

Vineyard
Franzia is produced by The Wine Group, which is based at Concannon Vineyard in San Francisco's East Bay, but operates 13 wineries in California, New York and Australia.

Red Wines

 * Bold and Jammy Cab
 * Burgundy
 * Cabernet Sauvignon
 * Chianti
 * Chillable Red
 * Dark Red Blend
 * Fruity Red Sangria
 * Merlot
 * Pinot Noir/Carmenere

White Wines

 * Chablis
 * Chardonnay
 * Crisp White
 * Moscato
 * Pinot Grigio/Colombard
 * Refreshing White
 * Rich & Buttery
 * Sauvignon Blanc

Blush Wines

 * Pink Moscato
 * Rosé
 * Sunset Blush
 * White Merlot
 * White Zinfandel

In popular culture
Oregon State University students organize the Tour de Franzia, a costumed bike parade inspired by the brand's namesake. The parade attracts students, local residents, and out-of-towners and occurs every term. Similarly, students at Wesleyan University organize an unofficial campus scavenger hunt involving boxed wine.

title: Franzia


text:
Stone circle (Iron Age)

The stone circles of the Iron Age (c. 500 BC – c. 400 AD) were a characteristic burial custom of southern Scandinavia and Southwestern Finland, especially on Gotland and in Götaland.

Finland court stones are found  in Eura, Ulvila and Kokemäki. They date typically during the Pre-Roman Iron Age and the Roman Iron Age. In Sweden, they are called Domarringar (judge circles), Domkretsar (judge circles) or Domarsäten (judge seats). In Finland they are called Käräjäkivet (court stones). In some places in Nordic countries they were used until 17th century.

They should not be confused with earlier bronze age and neolithic Stone circles in the British Isles and Brittany.

History

A tradition of making stone circles existed on the European continent in Wielbark culture near the mouth of the Vistula River in the first century. The practice suggests Norse influence but may have been established in the area before the arrival of the Goths.

The stone circles were sometimes used as burial grounds.

Shapes
The circles are usually round, or elongated ellipses. The stones may be very large and they are usually between 9 and 12. Sometimes there are as few as 6–8. One stone circle, the circle of Nässja (near Vadstena), comprises as many as 24 stones. Excavations have shown burnt coal in the centre of the circles and they are nowadays considered to be incineration graves.

Things
There is a widespread tradition that the circles were used for things, or general assemblies. Similar circles were used for popular assemblies in Denmark until the 16th century, and in Vad parish in Västergötland, the village assemblies were held in a stone circle until the 19th century.

Snorri Sturluson
Even if knowledge that the stone circles were graves was later lost, it was still fresh in the 13th century as testify these lines by Snorri Sturluson in the introduction of the Heimskringla: "As to funeral rites, the earliest age is called the Age of Burning; because all the dead were consumed by fire, and over their ashes were raised standing stones."

- Heimskringla by Snorri Sturluson

Examples

 * Gettlinge burial field, Öland, Sweden
 * Hulterstad burial field, Öland, Sweden
 * Jelling stones, Vejle, Denmark
 * Käräjämäki, Eura, Finland
 * Käräjämäki, Kokemäki, Finland
 * Liikistö, Ulvila, Finland
 * Stoplesteinan, Norway
 * Odry, Pomerania, Poland
 * Węsiory burial field, Kashubia, Poland

title: Stone circle (Iron Age)


text:
Joe F. Vitale

Joseph F. Vitale (born November 10, 1954) is an American Democratic Party politician, who has been serving in the New Jersey State Senate since 1998, where he represents the 19th Legislative District. He is also the former Mayor of Woodbridge Township, having been elected by the Township Council in July 2006 to fill a temporary vacancy, following the death of Mayor Frank Pelzman. Senator Vitale came to the Senate in 1998 filling a vacancy created when Jim McGreevey stepped down from his seat as part of his ultimately unsuccessful bid for election as Governor of New Jersey in 1997. Vitale attended John F. Kennedy Memorial High School in Woodbridge Township.

Mayor of Woodbridge
Following Pelzman's death in June 2006, Vitale volunteered to serve as Woodbridge's interim mayor. He was nominated by the township's Democratic Committee and voted in by the Township Council to serve a four-month term as mayor, saying he was taking on the mayor's job in order to continue Pelzman's programs and to provide leadership during the interim period, though the time constraints of dual office holding were making him rule out seeking the remaining 14 months of Pelzman's term during the November 2006 special election for mayor. Vitale endorsed former State Treasurer John McCormac in the special election and served as mayor until November 13, 2006, when McCormac was sworn in.

New Jersey Senate
Vitale was elected in the 1997 elections to succeed Jim McGreevey who was running for Governor. As the 19th districts consists of mainly Democrat-friendly towns in Middlesex County, he has been easily reelected in every Senate election never winning by less than 20 points. From 2004 to 2009, Vitale was the Deputy Majority Leader in the Senate. Currently, he is Chairman of the Senate on the Health, Human Services and Senior Citizens Committee and the Vice Chairman in the Senate for Economic Growth. Vitale and William Gormley were the lead sponsors of the 1999 New Jersey Homeless Youth Act, which allows minors to seek homeless shelter without parental approval. He is also the sponsor of bills to allow needle exchange programs for drug users and to prohibit gun ownership by those convicted of domestic violence offenses. Senator Vitale was the prime sponsor of over forty bills that were signed into law, including bills establishing the KidCare and FamilyCare health care coverage programs, as well as a bill which would require nursing aides to undergo certified criminal background checks, a bill which would prohibit the use of mandatory overtime in health care facilities except in emergency situations, and the New Jersey Health Care Access and Patient Protection Act, which requires the State to compile information on doctors, such as office location and medical malpractice history, in a database available to the public. As chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee, Vitale has blocked a vote in the Senate on a measure that has passed twice in the General Assembly under which non-professional bakers would be allowed to legally sell their goods to consumers, leaving New Jersey and Wisconsin as the only states that forbid the practice. Vitale has cited "public safety and public health concerns", along with the impact of home-based competition on local brick-and-mortar businesses, as his reasons for blocking the measure.

Committees
Committee assignments for the 2024—2025 Legislative Session are:
 * Health, Human Services and Senior Citizens (as chair)

District 19
Each of the 40 districts in the New Jersey Legislature has one representative in the New Jersey Senate and two members in the New Jersey General Assembly. The representatives from the 19th District for the 2024—2025 Legislative Session are:
 * Senator Joe F. Vitale (D)
 * Assemblyman Craig Coughlin (D)
 * Assemblywoman Yvonne Lopez (D)

title: Joe F. Vitale


text:
Talk:KFRC (610 AM)

Blurb for DYK
Blurb for Did You Know feature of Wikipedia:

Did You Know

...the callsign of KFRC in San Francisco, California in the U.S. stood for "Known For Radio Clearness"? However, when the AM radio station signed on with 50 watts in 1924, it was heard as far away as New Zealand, far exceeding anyone's expectations.

KFRC
If it stands for "Known for Radio Clearness" then why is it so surprising the channel had such a wide reach? Using "however" seems a bit wrong in this context. Mgm|(talk) 09:56, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

50 watts?

 * Along those lines, there seems to be something funny about the 50 Watts reaching New Zealand claim. 50 Watts would be barely enough to serve the city. Early powerful AM stations often had 50,000 or even 100,000 Watt outputs - and if atmospheric conditions were right I suppose these could reach New Zealand. But not 50 Watts. I'd check to see if maybe the number isn't off by 3 orders of magnitude (i.e., somebody dropped a "k" somewhere). Fawcett5 13:24, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Regarding 50 watts, I had the same reaction when I was writing the story. However, the mysteriously low number came from 2 sources, and was actually explained. The early signal was on 1230 AM, and is not the one they went into long-term use with on 610 AM. They also had a favorable location for the antenna. A big problem with AM is other signals, which may not have been as much of a problem back then.

Source 1: San Francisco "Bulletin", Tuesday, September 23, 1924: Section 2 Page 1:

"BULLETIN RADIO STATION OPENS TOMORROW; GLOBE FLIERS' CHIEF WILL DEDICATE KFRC."

(excerpt)

"The station itself is a new departure in broadcasting units. It is not a high powered station. It is rated as a 50 watt station, but of the Western Electric type, which guarantees a high degree of efficiency. Radio engineers and the Radioart Studios personnel determined on the low power, perfectly tuned unit as preferable to the high powered sets which cause interference. The Government at Washington is watching the work of KFRC with considerable interest in view of the coming conference as it is believed that such units will form a solution of the present broadcasting congestion."

Source 2: THE HISTORY OF KFRC SAN FRANCISCO AND THE DON LEE NETWORKS Copyright John F. Schneider, 1997 Seattle, Washington

(excerpt)

''"The transmitter itself was a fifty watt unit, the latest Western Electric design. The only other one like it was in St. Louis, where it was said to "pound into New York like a local. The relatively low-powered transmitter was said to be preferred by the station engineers because it would cause less interference and yet deliver almost equal signal strength because of its superior circuit design."''

I am posting all this to the article's TALK page, and will do some more research as well. Maybe we can learn more. Thanks. Vaoverland 16:18, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

A few thoughts. The frequency used at the time isn't too different from the 1.8Mhz amateur band, where global communications can and do take place, albeit that very good antenna systems are required. San Fransisco to New Zealand is mostly a sea path, so multi-hop ionospheric propagation, even at those frequencies, would probably stand a better chance than over a land path. Each time you double the power of a radio transmitter the received signal will increase by 3 decibels. That isn't a lot, and even a 10 times increase only gives round a 10 dB increase at the receiver. In practical terms that means that if a 50,000 watt transmitter was a good strong signal over a given path, a 50 watt transmitter might well be audible - signal to noise ratio is what matters with weak signal reception and in 1924 there were relatively few broadcasting stations and the general level of background noise from electrical appliances and industrial sources would be much lower than it is now. I've personally had amateur contacts between the UK and Australia on higher shortwave frequencies with a 5 watt transmitter - not comparing like with like, but an indication that a little power can go a long way. Overall it sounds quite likely that KFRC was heard in New Zealand.Thomsk 19:10, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Okay, so now it's time to sort this all out
I slapped a merge tag on this article and on KIFR. Here's what needs to be done:

1. The KMVQ article needs to be compiled. KYUU has a lot of background for this. Also some KFRC stuff from the 99.7 era belongs there.

2. KIFR and this page now need to be combined. The 106.9 stuff should be on here in some form. Lots of history with this frequency. Need to take care in not making the article too long.

3. Some of the KFRC stuff should be on KEAR.

I could help with it, once I can possibly sort it all out in my head. This is mind-boggling. Not to mention the Free FM stuff will be migrating over to KYOU.--Fightingirish 01:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Wow, what a mess. It was hard enough when I sorted out the KFRC/KEAR/KIFR mess a year and a half ago. Since I haven't been up in the Bay Area in a while, I wasn't even aware of these recent changes. While I'm glad they brought back the old KFRC format, it's sad that they got rid of Free FM and moved the talk shows to a weak-signalled AM station that you can't even hear in the South Bay; that's KYCY, not KYOU which is a TV station in Iowa. DHowell 02:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I know it's just been merged, but I think it should be split
I believe there should be two articles, one about the historical KFRC, and one about the current station at 106.9. There is enough information on both to fill up two separate articles, and the "Movin' 99.7" switch along with the KFRC-FM revival at 106.9 represents a clean break between "historical" and "current". Since we can problaby expect more shuffling from CBS in the next few years it might be better to make sure all this information is separated to best preserve it in the future. Here's my suggestion: If there's no objections to this, I'll start working on this after the holiday weekend. DHowell 00:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Move the KIFR redirect (which contains all the GFDL history for the article about the 106.9 frequency) to KFRC-FM. This would become the article about the current KFRC-FM 106.9, and the history of the 106.9 frequency in San Francisco. (However, a wholly separate article could probably someday be written about KMPX (FM) in the 1970s, along the lines of KOME, KMET (FM) and KPPC).
 * 2) Make KFRC an article primarily about the historical AM station, and its historical FM counterparts (KFRC-FM 106.1 in the 1970s, and KFRC-FM 99.7 until the "Movin' 99.7" switch).
 * 3) Make KMVQ (which should actually be moved to KMVQ-FM, see the FCC database) about the current "Movin' 99.7" and the history of the 99.7 frequency in San Francisco, but with information about KYUU primarily in the KYUU article (which also, according to FCC, should be KYUU-FM).
 * 4) Information about KFRC-FM 99.7 from 1991-2006 should probably be primarily in KFRC, since it is closely associated with the legendary AM station, but KMVQ-FM and KFRC-FM could include summaries and links back to KFRC. Info about KFRC-FM as "Movin' 99.7" primarily should be in KMVQ-FM.
 * 5) Leave KEAR mostly alone, since it primarily covers the history of the Family Radio flagship on its various frequencies, and not the history of 610 kHz, which is covered in KFRC and really has little to do with the current occupants of this frequency.
 * 6) One thing I am undecided on, though, is whether the historical KFRC article should be left at KFRC, with a disambiguation link at the top to KFRC-FM, or if KFRC should become a disambiguation page and the historical article moved to either KFRC (AM) or KFRC (1924-2006). My preference is to leave the historical page at KFRC, since it would be about both the historical AM and FM stations, and using years to disambiguate radio stations is unprecedented. Also, someone looking for information on the current KFRC-FM would probably still find the historical KFRC article interesting.

Here's my suggestions (to be completed after the history are back as they should be). Primarily, I think that there should be one article per frequency (FCC license), and the history of the frequency (FCC license) should be in each article - without creating additional articles for call signs that are no longer used. All the history that happened with the same FCC license (same frequency) should be in the same article. This is the basis for my response (numbered to match your suggestions above):
 * 1) Redirect completed, though I think KMPX should be written about at KFRC-FM, since it was (most likely) broadcast using the same FCC license - that has been transfered around over the years.
 * 2) Oppose - the majority of KFRC history should moved to KEAR.  Most of the history takes place when KFRC was on 610AM (1924-2005).  KMVQ should have a section about simulcasting KFRC AM (1991-4/2005) and then solo broadcasting KFRC-FM (4/05-9/06).  KMVQ would have a link to KEAR for the earlier history of KFRC.
 * 3) Redirect completed, though I think KYUU should be merged into KMVQ.  KYUU is part of 99.7 history and there is not much more information at KYUU than is in at KMVQ.
 * 4) Oppose - there should not be a separate article just about KFRC as an oldies station.  Anything about 99.7 KFRC-FM should be in the article about 99.7 (KMVQ), and anything about 610 KFRC should be in the article about 610 (KEAR).
 * 5) Oppose - KEAR claims its first broadcast date is in 1924 - the start of KFRC and the date of license issue to the station.  Since the station started as KFRC, it should include the history of the station.  The majority of the KFRC history (currently in KMVQ) should be moved to KEAR.
 * 6) Oppose - I created KFRC as a redirect page, listing the 3 stations it may be referring to.
 * They way I would handle Family Radio (KEAR), that been bouncing between radio stations, is this. On the frequencies it used to be on, there should be a sentence saying "this frequency was known as KEAR from xxxx-xxxx) and broadcast Family Radio."  On the current KEAR article, it should have the history of 610 AM (the majority of KFRC's history).  In a section of the KEAR article, there should be a "KEAR call sign history", where there is a time line of events.  I would normally object to having such a history, but KEAR is unique in that it is one organization always with the same programming that has moved between frequencies and always utilizing the same call sign.  Another way to handle this is to mention the KEAR history in the Family Radio article, which describes the programming.
 * This differs from KFRC, as CBS sold KFRC (AM) to another organization and CBS had no plans to keep using KFRC (AM). CBS also changed the format and frequency of KFRC-FM.  With KEAR, you have one organization with the same call letters and the same programming moving between frequencies (FCC licenses).  With KFRC, you have a company changing call letters and programming.
 * --Scott Alter 00:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

+ indicates simulcasting

I made this table to try and keep the station changes straight. --Scott Alter 03:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

History merges
Before anyone makes content changes to the articles, I just want to be clear about something. When all of the call sign changes took place last week, did the radio stations actually switch their frequencies, or did they just change formats?

I suspect they just changed formats and call signs, but the stations remained the same (including the same management and ownership). If this is the case, then the article histories need to be moved around. Radio station articles on Wikipedia generally follow each radio station, not the call signs. So the article at KFRC should be the current 106.9 and the history of the station at 106.9. KMVQ should be the current 99.7, and the history of the station at 99.7 (which would include its history as KFRC - see WXRK and WKRI for examples).

Whoever made the initial changes last week did not do them properly - rather than moving the articles about the stations to the new call signs, the person kept the articles and started changing the content to reflect the new station. If it is the case that only the call signs changed, then some db-histmerge-ing needs to be done. The article and history formerly at KIFR should be associated with the new KFRC (and the new content at KFRC). The old content of KFRC should be merged with the new content at KMVQ, and this combined article moved to KMVQ. I just had all the WFNY-FM/WXRK/WKRI/WXTM articles fixed today (after someone moved those incorrectly), so I know what needs to be done.

If I have described what happened accurately, then we should proceed to make the changes (which requires an administrator). Right now, there are 3 articles with 3 histories (KIFR, KFRC, and KMVQ). There should be only 2 histories for KRFC and KMVQ, and KIFR should be only a redirect (with no history). Once this is fixed, then the articles could be split as described previously. --Scott Alter 23:12, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

To complete this db-history merge, it has to be done in a few steps: This should be done the same way with the talk pages. --Scott Alter 23:44, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Move current edits of KFRC to KIFR (beginning with "19:31, 17 May 2007 Boadrummer")
 * 2) Perform db-history merge from KMVQ into KFRC (after all current KFRC edits and references have been moved to KIFR from above - to prevent 2 simultaneous histories of 2 different articles)
 * 3) Delete KMVQ
 * 4) Rename KFRC to KMVQ
 * 5) Rename KIFR to KFRC

What happened? I must object
I know we are supposed to be bold, but this goes way beyond being bold when articles are moved and histories merged without adequate discussion. I indicated above what I wanted to do and asked if there were any objections. The fact that there was should indicate a potential dispute about how this should have been handled. Unfortunately, now action has been taken that may be quite difficult to undo. Franky, I think this obsession with FCC licenses, to the exclusion of all else in determining how articles on radio stations should be written, is wrong. Let me address the points:
 * "Primarily, I think that there should be one article per frequency (FCC license), and the history of the frequency (FCC license) should be in each article - without creating additional articles for call signs that are no longer used. All the history that happened with the same FCC license (same frequency) should be in the same article."

This may be fine for small market stations or low-rated stations which might not have much notability other than their FCC license. For major market stations which have been around for 80-some years and made signficant impact on the field of radio broadcasting, notability is established far beyond the existence of an FCC license and a frequency. What you have proposed (and apparently tried to implement) is like saying that if a big famous company that has existed for many years moves to another building, that information about the entire history of that company should be contained in an article about whatever company happens to move into the old building. An FCC license is like a building, "companies" (stations) "move in" and "move out" all the time. As an encyclopedia, we document what is notable, and where the average person would expect to find the information. Radio stations' notability can often transcend the notability of the FCC licenses they use to broadcast.
 * "Redirect completed, though I think KMPX should be written about at KFRC-FM, since it was (most likely) broadcast using the same FCC license - that has been transfered around over the years."
 * "Redirect completed, though I think KYUU should be merged into KMVQ. KYUU is part of 99.7 history and there is not much more information at KYUU than is in at KMVQ."

What you are saying would mean that articles like KOME, KMET (FM) and KPPC should be merged into KUFX, KTWV and KROQ respectively, and I object strongly and vociferously to this. KOME, KMET and KPPC are notable in their own right, it's not the FCC license that they used at the time they broadcast that gives them this notability. Journalists and authors generally write about radio stations and their programming and impact on culture, not about FCC liceneses.
 * "Oppose - the majority of KFRC history should moved to KEAR. Most of the history takes place when KFRC was on 610AM (1924-2005). KMVQ should have a section about simulcasting KFRC AM (1991-4/2005) and then solo broadcasting KFRC-FM (4/05-9/06). KMVQ would have a link to KEAR for the earlier history of KFRC"
 * "Oppose - there should not be a separate article just about KFRC as an oldies station. Anything about 99.7 KFRC-FM should be in the article about 99.7 (KMVQ), and anything about 610 KFRC should be in the article about 610 (KEAR)."

I object to this. KFRC (AM) was a station that existed for many many years, and has nothing to do with a religious broadcaster who happens to occupy the same frequency (FCC license) as that historic station which is notable in its own right, regardless of what frequency that set of call letters is assigned to presently. It should have its own article, just as Gimbels has its own article, and its history is not (primarily) contained in the article on Stern's or Manhattan Mall.
 * "Oppose - KEAR claims its first broadcast date is in 1924 - the start of KFRC and the date of license issue to the station. Since the station started as KFRC, it should include the history of the station. The majority of the KFRC history (currently in KMVQ) should be moved to KEAR."

The change to 1924 as first broadcast date in the KEAR's infobox was made relatively recently; for a long time the infobox had the start date of KEAR on its various frequencies. This change also reflected the "FCC license above all" idea that I object to. By the way, KEAR, the station, not the article, does not claim 1924 as its first broadcast date. If anything, it claims 1959, see this Family Radio web page. On the other hand, the 1924 airdate is mentioned in an article about The History of KFRC, not an article about KEAR.
 * "Oppose - I created KFRC as a redirect page, listing the 3 stations it may be referring to."

Really, in my opinion, "KFRC" refers to one radio station that has moved around quite a bit in its recent history. I proposed two articles because there really is more to be written about that history than there is about the current station and frequency, and the "Movin' 99.7" switch created a "clean break" between history and the present. We have, for example articles on the history of Germany, the Holy Roman Empire, and the German Democratic Republic; we don't try to squeeze all that historical information in a single article about Germany. And those historical articles about Germany have way more relevance to the preset Germany than KFRC 610 has to the present KEAR 610.
 * "They way I would handle Family Radio (KEAR), that been bouncing between radio stations, is this. On the frequencies it used to be on, there should be a sentence saying "this frequency was known as KEAR from xxxx-xxxx) and broadcast Family Radio." On the current KEAR article, it should have the history of 610 AM (the majority of KFRC's history). In a section of the KEAR article, there should be a "KEAR call sign history", where there is a time line of events. I would normally object to having such a history, but KEAR is unique in that it is one organization always with the same programming that has moved between frequencies and always utilizing the same call sign. Another way to handle this is to mention the KEAR history in the Family Radio article, which describes the programming."

Again this would be comingling information in a way that would be confusing for most readers. If someone is looking up the article KEAR, they are likely interested in the current Family Radio religious broadcaster. They might be interested in the history of that broadcaster in San Francisco (if they are interested in a less geographical sense, they can go to Family Radio). They might be interested to know that 610 was once KFRC, but I'm not sure how much interest they'd have in Don Lee et al. For that information, I think the average person would expect to find it at an article called KFRC. The average person might expect information about the current KFRC-FM, or even KMVQ-FM at KFRC, but that's why we have disambiguation pages.
 * "This differs from KFRC, as CBS sold KFRC (AM) to another organization and CBS had no plans to keep using KFRC (AM). CBS also changed the format and frequency of KFRC-FM. With KEAR, you have one organization with the same call letters and the same programming moving between frequencies (FCC licenses). With KFRC, you have a company changing call letters and programming."

While it's true that KFRC-FM and KMVQ-FM are owned by one company, and one could say that this company merely "changed programming" on their various frequencies, the general perception is that CBS changed the direction in a major way of a long-time radio station (KFRC oldies -> KFRC "Movin' 99.7"), and then "revived" that old station at a frequency where they had a format that was not succeeding (KIFR -> KFRC-FM) then gave a new set of call letters to go along with the new format at the old frequency (KFRC-FM -> KMVQ-FM); I'd bet that relatively few listeners of "Movin' 99.7" even noticed that call letter switch. People who wanted the old KFRC can now find it at 106.9. People who want information about the old KFRC ought to find it at KFRC. DHowell 20:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

When I requested the db-histmerge on KMVQ as described in "History merges" as above, I was only following the guidelines at WikiProject_Radio_Stations. When the new articles were initially created, they were done incorrectly. Your proposals were mostly about content of the articles - which I did not significantly change. Before I made any changes, content had been deleted from these stations. When I was done, the complete history of each station was in place, with deletions restored.

Please explain what I did wrong (not that I even did the merge myself - an admin did it after reading this talk page, which had your opinions). The proper way to do it is renaming using the move function. As for moving content around, I provided my opinions and did not split any articles or move content. The split does require discussion. What we disagree on is essentially whether historical stations should have their own articles, or if the history should go by the FCC license. I will now explain to you what was done wrong and how I fixed it.

This whole mess occurred because instead of moving 99.7 KFRC-FM (with Movin 99.7 content) to KMVQ-FM (with Movin 99.7 content), someone blanked all of the content about Movin 99.7 and decided to make a new article with new content about the same Movin 99.7. This was totally the wrong thing to do. Movin 99.7 stayed the same the entire time. The only thing that happened to Movin 99.7 was a change of call signs. As such, the article on Movin 99.7 should have been simply renamed to the new call signs (as specified in the guidelines). There was no reason to have to start a new article from scratch just because a station changed call signs. KMVQ should not have been started as a new article. This is the reason that the db-histmerge needed to me completed with then KMVQ and KFRC (my #2 in "History merges" above). Was this wrong to keep the 99.7 article with the same article history and the station information? I don't think so. This history of the Movin 99.7 article should be continuous. There was no reason to create KMVQ as a new article.

The other problem caused by the initial events was that someone decided to completely delete all of the content about Free FM and KIFR's history. This content should not have been deleted. Also per the guidelines, this was a station changing call signs and formats, so the article should have been renamed to the new call sign (KFRC-FM). If this move was big enough to warrant a new article, then KIFR should have been left alone, and a new article created for the new KFRC-FM. With the db-histmerge from KMVQ into KFRC, the recent changes made to KFRC needed to be moved - otherwise there would be 2 article histories mixed together. The appropriate place for the content about the new 106.9 KFRC-FM would be with what happened after Free FM at KIFR.

What I initiated is the proper way to deal with call sign changes. What you have proposed (splitting the article), is totally separate from call sign changes and is still an open matter for discussion. The fixes I made to the article histories should not effect splitting the article. If you want to make an article about strictly the KFRC oldies stations, then go ahead. Split the KFRC history out of KFRC-FM (formerly KIFR), KMVQ-FM (formerly KFRC-FM), and KEAR (formerly KFRC (AM)). If you do this split, then place the appropriate see also links in those 3 articles and everyone is happy. What is the problem?

The only thing you can say that I might not have been right in doing was creating KFRC as a disambiguation page. If the split will occur, then simply put the content at KFRC instead of having the disambiguation page. My reason for initiating the db-histmerge was to quickly get the old Movin 99.7 page back as it was, before work was put in to a new article about Movin 99.7. A new article about an unchanged station is unnecessary - especially when there was already a complete article on the station.

But remember, I placed the db-histmerge tag on KMVQ with a hold-on tag and a link to this talk page. This allowed the admin who made the changes to see your discussion on the split. My actions after the split of renaming KFRC to KFRC-FM and KMVQ to KMVQ-FM should not be controversial. My edits of the current KFRC-FM converted the Free FM information to the past tense, and I added back in the new content written about the new KFRC-FM from other contributors. The changes I made were not malicious and had no effect on your desire to split the article. Also, I did not remove the split template - the admin did it during the db-histmerge (not sure if intentional or not).

If you are objecting because the creation of a new KMVQ was like actually making a split between KFRC and Movin 99.7, then what I did (maybe a merge in your eyes), was appropriate. The split should not have been done without discussion (which is in progress).

I still maintain that the split is a separate matter from the call sign changes. Right now, each station's history is with the history of the station. If you want to pull out the KFRC history into a new article, then that is the discussion of the split. Had you phrased the split discussion in this way, I might have agreed with you...but the way you phrased it I liked it better as I had previously stated. I would not be completely opposed to make an article about KFRC composed of content from KFRC-FM, KEAR, and KMVQ-FM.

You seem to be mixing my opinions on your proposed split with the actions of db-histmerging. What I really don't understand is why you are so angry about what happened? How does this effect your desire to split the article? If anything, I think it should be easier to split the content now. Before there were essentially 4 sources of content (KIFR, old 99.7 KFRC, new 106.9 KFRC-FM, and KMVQ). Now, there are 2 complete sources of information. --Scott Alter 01:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

And before you argue that information about KFRC (AM) is now in the KMVQ-FM article, I agree that it is misplaced. I also think it was misplaced in the KFRC article about the FM station. The information either belongs in KEAR or a new article. You're probably mad because you wanted to keep the KFRC (AM) history together with a new article. When you do a split, that's what happens - only one subject matter can retain the article history. Even before the articles were renamed, if the split happens, either Movin 99.7 or KFRC (AM) will retain the history. The other will not have the associated article history. That's just how Wikipedia works. If the split does happen, a series of renames could keep the history with an article on KFRC (AM). So relax. There's no reason to get worked up over this matter. --Scott Alter 02:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree that creating a new KMVQ-FM article was "the totally wrong thing to do". The problem is that if you actually read the article now called "KMVQ-FM" (which was formerly KFRC), it is hardly about "Movin' 99.7" at all. This isn't a case of an article that is half about one subject and half about another. It is at least 90% about KFRC and its history on both 610 and 99.7. Even the opening paragraph, which is now blatantly inaccurate if about "KMVQ-FM" or "Movin' 99.7", makes it clear that it is mostly about KFRC AM and not KMVQ-FM ("... which began broadcasting as an AM station in 1924. Since 1991, the station has been broadcasting on 99.7 MHz FM, but for over 80 years, the station had served the community on 610 kHz AM until 2005. ... The famous callsign letters ... did not stand for ... "Known For Radio Clearness," though this was the slogan used when the station first signed on with 50 watts of power. ...) The only real mention of the current station and format of KMVQ-FM is in the final two paragraphs of the history section, and the infobox. In my opinion, a new article should have been started when the "Movin' 99.7" switch occured, but this might have been tough to justify as the call letters were still KFRC-FM. When CBS later moved the call letters to another frequency, clearly intending to revive the old KFRC format, it was quite clear to me that this an example of the "rare situation" spelled out in the guidelines: "Note: In some rare situations, it may be unclear whether a new call sign should be considered a successor to an old one or an entirely new station. If there is any doubt, solicit opinions on this project's talk page." Maybe there is doubt whether KMVQ-FM is an entirely new station, but that's why I tried to solicit opinions before making any changes. I think the fact that this article is nearly all about a former AM station rather than FM 99.7 makes a good case for the KFRC history to be separated from the KMVQ-FM article. But it doesn't make sense to me to separate KFRC AM from the old KFRC-FM history, because they are so intertwined. KMVQ-FM is a new station (that happened to start 8 months before those call letters were actually assigned), and I believe it was rightfully made into a brand new article, given the lack of much content about "Movin' 99.7" in the KFRC article.
 * I think the case would have been easier for me to make had CBS changed the call letters at the same time as the format switch. Because the call letter change came 8 months after the format switch, confusion about how to handle these articles abounded.
 * I agree with you about KIFR. I don't believe KIFR notably made enough of an impact to warrant a separate article, and so KIFR should have been renamed to KFRC-FM and information about KIFR "Free FM" moved into the history section. Note, however, that is exactly what I was proposing to do originally: "Move the KIFR redirect (which contains all the GFDL history for the article about the 106.9 frequency) to KFRC-FM." But any history merges that might have been required could have been done *after* it was settled what information goes where. And again because 106.9 has a separate notable history from that of stations formerly called KFRC, the KFRC history should not have been merged with the 106.9 history. I was already planning to undo that merge (which, if you remember, was my original split proposal; you essentially executed that split, but then you also did a merge which is what I am now objecting to).
 * The problem with the history merges you requested is that it did indeed make the split more difficult. I already had a plan (which I outlined earlier) which would have properly preserved GFDL history. An article which is almost entirely about KFRC's history should be renamed to KFRC or KFRC (AM) or KFRC (1924-2005) or even History of KFRC. But now the GFDL history for the article about the station once known as KFRC 610 is now at KMVQ-FM, where it clearly doesn't belong. That is why the history merge was wrong. Note also, that this merge also subsumed the historical 99.7 information which was largely in the original, separate KMVQ-FM article, but is now missing from the current article. Splitting the article would have prevented these largely unnecessary history merges (which now have to be somewhat undone once the split happens, to restore proper GFDL history to the proper articles). A more careful merge, if necessary, could have occurred after the content of the various articles was settled. I proposed the split exactly in order to avoid these confusing GFDL history merges (or more equally confusing cut-and-paste copies). So you can see why I got so worked up about it (and I apologize if you feel I was in any way being incivil).
 * To illustrate the problem more clearly, here is a link to the article as it was first created. Now does that article look like the beginning of an article about an FM station called KMVQ-FM "Movin' 99.7", or an article about the history of an AM station with an FM simulcast called KFRC? Even if you think the history of 610 should be in KEAR, wouldn't it have made more sense to merge the former KFRC article (which was more about 610 than it was about 99.7) with KEAR instead of with KMVQ-FM? (Though I would have objected to that as well).
 * If you will allow me, I would like to try to fix the articles in the way I am proposing. I would like to split the article by moving this article to KFRC (AM) (we can discuss the name or whether to replace the redirect later) and to create a new article called KMVQ-FM (so yes, there will be cut-and-pasting, which is now clearly unavoidable, but there is so little info on "Movin' 99.7" I don't really see much of a problem with this). After I am done, we can then discuss how to fix the various GFDL histories. If you still object to a separate KFRC history article, or anything else I've done, you can propose your ideas and get wider discussion and consensus. Would that be OK? DHowell

 * Although the initial purpose of this article was about mostly KFRC (AM), it developed into an article that I perceived to be about the FM station (though it had the history of the AM station). If the article was supposed to be solely about KFRC (AM and FM), then the Movin 99.7 content should not have been added.  That is why the article is the way it is right now.  If the Movin 99.7 content should not have been put into the KFRC article, then the problem occurred when content about the format change occurred.  I somewhat agree with you that Movin 99.7 should not have been placed in the KFRC article, but since the content was there, when the station changed call signs, it is logical to change the article name too.  Had the Movin 99.7 content been initially created in its own article last year, then we wouldn't have this issue now.  This may be partially due to the ambiguity of the article formerly named KFRC - the article name was too broad.  This is one reason why I like the guidelines, specifically about "If more than one article has the same base call sign, or if an acronym shares that call sign".
 * Anyway, I'll support the split to create a separate KFRC article. As for the name, I either like History of KFRC or KFRC (AM), depending on the focus of the article.  If the main focus will be strictly about the AM station, with links to the new KFRC-FM and KMVQ-FM, then I prefer KFRC (AM).  If you plan to include the history of the FM stations, then I prefer History of KFRC.  I think that KFRC (AM) would be more appropriate, focusing mainly on the AM station.  Any new history should be primarily in KFRC-FM.  And KFRC should remain a disambiguation page with an added link to the new article.
 * To perform this split, I agree that this article (KMVQ-FM) should be renamed to the new KFRC article. However, I just had an idea to rename KYUU to KMVQ-FM, and cut and paste the content about Movin 99.7 from this article to the KYUU article.  The KYUU article has little substance, and the mention of KYUU in KMVQ-FM will pretty much just be repeating all of the information in the current KYUU article.  There is no need for an article solely about KYUU when all of its content is repeated elsewhere.
 * I do not think there is a need to move any of the histories or to perform any more db-histmerges. Essentially, the former KMVQ article that I had db-histmerged was selectively copied from the former KRFC (now this article).  The only new contributions that are not currently in this article (as the result of the db-histmerge) is a sentence or 2 about KNBR (see .  Everything else was copied and pasted from KYUU and this article.  I do not think we need to move around article histories just for this one, small section.
 * As far as the current KFRC-FM article, I am happy with it as-is. When the KFRC (AM) article is created, the last 2 sections would be short descriptions and main links to KMVQ-FM as "KFRC-FM from 1991-2007", and KFRC-FM as a "resurrected station & format".  As the current KFRC-FM becomes more established, people can contribute to that article.  KFRC (AM) would pretty much be set, as the history of the AM station is no longer evolving.  --Scott Alter 06:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've now moved the article to KFRC (AM) and rewritten it to make it into a historical article about a defunct station.
 * "If the article was supposed to be solely about KFRC (AM and FM), then the Movin 99.7 content should not have been added."
 * Here's where we agree. However, because the station didn't change call letters when it radically changed formats, it was not clear at the time that this was the correct thing to do. It took 8 months and a call letter change before a separate Movin' 99.7 was written, which is exactly what Boadrummer did on May 17, 2007. Before that, very little content was added about "Movin' 99.7"; besides the short paragraph at the end, there were a couple of attempts to add spammy promo content which was quickly reverted. There really wasn't an article about Movin 99.7 before May 17; there was an article about the historical KFRC which masqueraded as an article about Movin 99.7, and included a small amount of content about the format change (which I've left in the KFRC (AM) article as I believe it is still relevant).
 * Rather than moving the KYUU article to KMVQ-FM, however, I created a new KMVQ-FM which is essentially a restoration of the old KMVQ-FM that you hist-merged in with this article. If you think KYUU and KMVQ-FM should be merged, you are welcome to propose that (but please allow time for adequate discussion); but personally, I think that while the current KYUU article is somewhat stubby, it has the potential to grow using content from the tribute page or from newspaper articles of the era. I believe that KYUU was a highly notable historic station on par with KMET (FM) and KOME. I don't think a hist-merge is appropriate because the KYUU article wasn't simply copy-and-pasted to create the KMVQ-FM article, it was paraphrased and summarized into sections of the KMVQ-FM article.
 * I also intend to suggest a hist-unmerge of the KFRC (AM) content and the KMVQ-FM content, since I derived the present KMVQ-FM from that formerly separate KMVQ article, which summarized and added to information that was in both KFRC and KYUU. The parts which were copy-and-pasted from KFRC need to be rewritten anyway, which I intend to do. DHowell 00:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hist-unmerge
The following edits should be unmerged and transferred from this article to KMVQ-FM:
 * 01:21, 27 May 2007 WJBscribe m (moved KFRC to KMVQ over redirect: following change of station call sign)
 * 01:19, 27 May 2007 WJBscribe (Complete history merge)
 * 01:19, 27 May 2007 WJBscribe (Null edit)
 * 01:18, 27 May 2007 WJBscribe (Null edit)
 * 01:18, 27 May 2007 WJBscribe m (moved KMVQ to KFRC: history merge)
 * 23:34, 26 May 2007 Scottalter (requires historymerge, but after other history is moved from KFRC)
 * 01:42, 24 May 2007 67.170.184.73
 * 01:37, 24 May 2007 67.170.184.73
 * 02:48, 21 May 2007 JPG-GR (image to template)
 * 05:36, 18 May 2007 24.25.199.68
 * 02:34, 18 May 2007 Boadrummer
 * 02:13, 18 May 2007 Boadrummer
 * 01:37, 18 May 2007 Fightingirish (→See also)
 * 01:37, 18 May 2007 Fightingirish
 * 01:35, 18 May 2007 Fightingirish m (→History)
 * 01:35, 18 May 2007 Fightingirish (Okay, here's a start. Anyone else?)
 * 22:22, 17 May 2007 Boadrummer (←Created page with 'KMVQ is a San Francisco-based radio station, broadcasted on the 99.7 frequency. It used to be KFRC before the name was moved to 106.9, after a format change on ...')

I will wait 5 days for discussion before requesting this on WP:SPLICE. DHowell 22:51, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:KFRC (610 AM)