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Talk:California Golden Seals

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Can anyone substantiate the team being renamed "California Seals" in 1974? I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else. Almost every source I've seen makes no mention of it, and several explicitly state the team was named "California Golden Seals" from 1970 'til they moved to Cleveland. --93JC 05:09, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Here is a year by year of the team with their name:
 * Oakland Seals (1967 to 1970):
 * California Golden Seals (1970-1974):
 * California Seals (1974-1976):
 * Cleveland Barons (1976-1978):
 * I hope this helps! Masterhatch 18 August 2005

 * I'm pretty sure hockeydb is wrong. This site in particular: http://www.sealshockey.com/seasons.html, seems quite definitive. As you can see, the team's official '74-'75 and '75-'76 media guides both read "California Golden Seals". The official teams photos also read "California Golden Seals" (http://www.sealshockey.com/season_1974-75.html ; http://www.sealshockey.com/season_1975-76.html). As far as I know the only change the NHL made to the team in the '74 offseason was the uniforms: dropping the Kelly green and gold with white skates for Pacific blue, white and gold with traditional black skates. --93JC 02:43, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Speculation on my part, but I think there's some evidence that the team was planning to drop the "Golden" and revert to the "California Seals" name for 1976-77. The team's newsletter ("Sparky Seal Reports") begins to use the name "California Seals Hockey Club" on its masthead about mid-season 1975-76, and the '76-'77 Topps hockey cards (printed before the move to Cleveland was announced) show the team as "Seals", rather than "Golden Seals" as they had in the past. 207.164.171.148 (talk) 16:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Cleveland Barons
I am wondering why this page is under the oakland seals if the the franchise ultimently became the Cleveland Barons before merging into the starsSmith03 16:45, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Currently, there seems to be a standard practice of separating teams that played in different cities if the time spent in each city is significant, for example Calgary Flames/Atlanta Flames. For teams that spend only a short time in a different city (for example Ottawa Senators/St. Louis Eagles) it is currently standard practice to group them together. For the Barons, it made more sense to group them with the Seals as they were essentially the same team, just different city. The barons didn't have a long enough or great enough history in Cleveland to warrent their own article. But this is only standard practice and not policy, but it is a standard practice that makes sense. Masterhatch 16:55, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Concur. As to that, I was looking at the separate pages for the Kansas City Scouts and the Colorado Rockies last night and wondering whether they should be combined, seeing as the team was in KC for only two seasons. Ravenswing 03:10, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

How about since they were the California Golden Seals twice as long as the Oakland Seals have the page under California?Smith03 19:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Last team to fold?
Yes, they were the last team to vanish from the four major leagues, but there were still at least three WHA teams that folded afterwards (Indianapolis, Cincinatti, and Birmingham). Just wanted to clarify that. Doogie2K 19:29, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone would dispute that, but just as many wouldn't call the USFL or the XFL "major leagues," not many would call the WHA a major league on a par with the NHL. Ravenswing 05:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

November not December 1967
I know there is a website out there about the Seals and they state the team name was change Dec 1967 from Cal to Oak. However I have done research using Mpls Tribune newspaper on microfische(sp) from that era and found an article from Novemer 1967 about the name change with the name change occuring at that time (November not December of 1967) I have change the article to read Nov but see it gets change back. I would suggest to people who live in the Bay area or any place that had a NHL team in 1967 to check with newspapers of that time to see when the change occur. Smith03 20:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

From the November 7 1967 Minneapolis Tribune page 24 Oakland Seals OAKLAND, Calif (AP) The California Seals of the National Hockey League are changing their name to the Oakland Seals, club owner Barry Van Gerbig said Monday (November 6).

the newspaper from that point on listed them as Oakland not California in the standings and game results Smith03 17:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with everyone on this point. In the newspapers I have consulted the team is called the Oakland Seals in November 1967. However, according to the NHL, in the 2006 Official Guide and Record Book (p. 9), the team officially changed names on December 8, 1967. Every other NHL guide I have found says the same thing, so it is not a typo. Maybe the Seals had planned to change names in November, but the name change did not become registered by the league until December. Maybe the newspapers just got itchy and started calling the team by its new name a few weeks too early.

The Lafleur trade
I've heard that it was either Gordon Labossiere or Carol Vadnais, rather than Ernie Hicke, whom the Seals got for the pick who turned out to be Lafleur. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Staszu13 15:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Denied. It was Labossiere and the pick that turned into Chris Oddleifson for Lafleur's 1st rounder.  Ravenswing  15:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually, Pollock sent Ernie Hicke and a first round draft choice in 1970 to the Seals in return for Francois Lacombe and a first round draft choice in 1971. http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/spot_oneononep198802.htm

Fair use rationale for Image:Sealslogo.gif
Image:Sealslogo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

WHL vs NHL Franchise
Is it true to say the WHL team is the same as the NHL team? I would think they would be two distinct teams. I'm not sure so that's why I'm posting this question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjb (talk • contribs) 00:42, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This is news to me aswell. GoodDay (talk) 05:01, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm satisfied; the fellow who put that edit in demonstrated that - as with the Vancouver Canucks - the NHL franchise was obtained by the same people who owned the WHL San Francisco Seals.   Ravenswing   05:26, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

After the merger
Recent changes in the "History" added Minnesota North Stars and Dallas Stars to the franchise. I can see the desire to add the North Stars name to the list after it's merger with the Barons but I do not know if this fits within Wikipedia's guidelines. However, if this is valid, according the the Wikipedia article on the Barons "Thirteen years later, in 1991, the merger would effectively be undone as the Gunds assumed ownership of the expansion San Jose Sharks..", this should be updated to one of the following: - Ending the history with the North Stars in 1991 - Removing all history with the (North) Stars

I would think removing the link with the North Stars and Stars is proper if the merger was "undone" but that statement is not cited. Also, what is meant by "undone"?

I am not making any mods at this time and am looking for input from others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjb (talk • contribs) 21:57, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I have not heard from anyone yet. I'm thinking guidelines would state to remove the (North) Stars references. If I don't hear any solid arguments on this in the next couple of weeks, I will likely do that. Wjb (talk) 19:04, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The "undone merger" is an enduring but inaccurate fallacy which shouldn't be perpetuated in Wikipedia articles.   Ravenswing   19:44, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

 * In agreement with Ravenswing. GoodDay (talk) 22:43, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Infomation regarding the franchise history included in this article's infobox or others should reflect the league's and the club's official history. Otherwise it opens the door for POV edits from other fans/historians to this and other franchises in the NHL and other leagues.  While there are oddities involving the histories of some pro sports franchise it's best to leave information regarding those oddities in the body of the article.   The reference to the WHL probably should be removed from the infobox as well. Straykat99 (talk) 07:22, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Thank you. I assumed the (North) Stars should be removed. As for the WHL, I agree.  It is an entirely different team in an entirely different league.  The fact the team name remained the same is insignificant.  The Pittsburgh Penguins were a '67 expansion team as well.  No one tries to link them with the AHL Pittsburgh Hornets.  But if the Penguins were named the Hornets, it would be the same scenario as the Seals.  I will remove the WHL reference in the infobox but the content can remain.  Wjb (talk) 01:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Completly disagree. The WHL Seals were the same franchise. This goes beyond them just having the same name. In 1965, Barry Van Gerbig was given an NHL expansion team for the San Francisco Bay Area. He decided that Oakland would be better than San Francisco because the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Arena, was more viable than the venerable Cow Palace. He decided to purchase the WHL Seals in 1966 and moved them from San Francisco into Oakland that year to prep them for their entry into the NHL. He rechristened them the California Seals in 1966/67. In 1967/68 he brought the team into the NHL, not only retaining some of the players such as Charlie Burns, George Swarbrick, Gerry Odrowski, Tom Thurlby, and Ron Harris, but the team even wore thier WHL jerseys in the 1967/68 pre-season (here is a shot of them playing the North Stars at the 20:20 mark of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5jSjNtt4iY). This was before they unveiled a new design just before thier regular season home opener. The WHL Seals joining the NHL is not only mentioned in the official NHL publication from 1991 called The Official National Hockey League 75th anniversary commemorative book, but its also noted in Brad Kurtzberg's great book Shorthanded: The Untold Story of the Seals: Hockey's Most Colorful Team. The same thing happened with the Vancouver Canucks in 1970. The ownership of the WHL Canucks brought the franchise into the NHL via expansion even retaining some of the roster. The same thing happened with the 4 WHA clubs in 1979 (Oilers, Nordiques, Jets, Whalers). Giantdevilfish (talk) 13:02, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

 * I do not agree with your assessment the Seals are like the WHA expansion clubs as those entire franchises moved from the competitive WHA into the NHL (sort of a merger of leagues although not officially). But you cited enough information that I'm okay with leaving the links you re-added.  Honestly, I just wasn't sure what is proper.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wjb (talk • contribs) 18:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Infobox logo
Shouldn't the logo used in the info box be changed (the green and gold one)? The article even says that it was never officially adopted by the team. Their logo was the blue, green and yellow Seal emblem until 1970 and then it was just the stylized word Seals. One of those should be used for the main article image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.174.153 (talk) 02:50, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:California Golden Seals


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Talk:Richmond RiverDogs

Team relocated, didn't fold
The Riverdogs became the Chicago Hounds so the team didn’t fold. As in the article it says that the team folded and relocated and also saying the Chicago Hounds are both an expansion team and the relocating Richmond team. If the team folded then they didn’t relocate. If they relocated the team didn’t fold. If Chicago was an expansion team, the Riverdogs didn’t relocate. On Hockey Db, the Riverdogs and the Hounds are one team, not two separate teams.12 I know before the relocation, the Hounds website was launched, but it doesn’t mean there a different team. When the Atlantic City Boardwalk Bullies relocated out west to become the Stockton Thunder, the Stockton website was already launched before the relocation. The article should not say the team folded and relocated and Chicago Hounds were both an expansion team and the relocating Richmond Riverdogs. The article should just simply say that the Riverdogs relocated to Chicago to become the Chicago Hounds, end of story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.188.74.12 (talk) 12:38, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Richmond RiverDogs


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Visitations (Clinic album)

Visitations is the fourth album by indie rock band Clinic, released on 16 October 2006 on Domino. The video for the single "Harvest (Within You)" was a featured video on YouTube.

Track listing

 * 1) "Family" – 3:14
 * 2) "Animal/Human" – 2:19
 * 3) "Gideon" – 3:15
 * 4) "Harvest (Within You)" – 3:23
 * 5) "Tusk" – 1:47
 * 6) "Paradise" – 3:06
 * 7) "Children of Kellogg" – 3:40
 * 8) "If You Could Read Your Mind" – 2:59
 * 9) "Jigsaw Man" – 2:33
 * 10) "Interlude" – 0:25
 * 11) "The New Seeker" – 3:00
 * 12) "Visitations" – 3:01

Singles

 * "Tusk" (7 February 2006 – free download-only single, available for a limited time at clinicvoot.org)
 * "Harvest" (2 October 2006)
 * "If You Could Read Your Mind" (5 February 2007)

Personnel

 * Ade Blackburn – keyboard, melodica, lead vocals
 * Brian Campbell – bass, flute, backing vocals
 * Hartley – lead guitar, clarinet, keyboards
 * Carl Turney – drums, piano, backing vocals, additional percussion

title: Visitations (Clinic album)


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Talk:Metamorphosis (Star Trek: The Original Series)

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Near the end of the article: Meanwhile the Enterprise arrives in the system and begins searching the asteroid field for the Galileo, which has claimed the lives of some 7000 bodies already. Seems to be a sentence fragment, present from the earliest version of the article. Delete or fix?--DooMDrat 16:41, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

No, she doesn't
"The creature says she is in love with Cochrane"The Companion doesn't say that. It's left implicit.


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User talk:Holzp

The image you uploaded, twice, with different descriptions, is actually from http://www.sheriff.org/apps/arrest/details.cfm?ID=500503092. So your entire edit history was just to perpetrate a hoax. Guess who just got permanently blocked? Postdlf 16:44, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Holzp


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Lake Laberge

Lake Laberge is a widening of the Yukon River north of Whitehorse, Yukon in Canada. It is fifty kilometres long and ranges from two to five kilometres wide, with an average depth of 54 metres. Its water is always very cold, and its weather often harsh and suddenly variable.

Names
The local Southern Tutchone called it Tàa'an Män, Tagish knew it as Kluk-tas-si, and the Tlingit as Tahini-wud.

Its English name comes from 1870 commemorating Michel LaBerge (1836–1909) - born in Chateauguay, Quebec, the first French-Canadian to explore the Yukon in 1866. It was well known to prospectors during the Klondike Gold Rush of the 1890s, as they would pass Lake Laberge on their way down the Yukon River to Dawson City: Jack London's Grit of Women (1900) and The Call of the Wild (1903), and Robert W. Service's poem "The Cremation of Sam McGee" (1907) mention the lake (although Service altered the spelling from Laberge to "Lebarge" to rhyme with "marge").

History and archaeology
During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, after-winter steamers carrying goods on Lake Laberge early on in the shipping season regarded the lake as trouble, since it was one of the last such passages to thaw its ice. At least two methods were employed to break the ice up:

 * Method 1: Release a surge of water from the upstream control dam, below Marsh Lake, to suddenly raise the lake water beneath the ice, cracking the ice as its surface rises.

 * Method 2: Smear an abundant quantity of expended crankcase oil along the lake's icy length, causing it to melt by increasing the sun's warming effect.

In spring 2009, researchers found the A. J. Goddard, a Gold Rush sternwheeler that sunk in 1901, killing three of its crew. Underwater archaeologists are examining the ship. National Geographic has named it the top archeological find of 2009. The Yukon government has designated the shipwreck a historic site. A phonograph with three records was discovered, giving insight into songs being listened to during the Gold Rush.

Toxaphene contamination
A sign posted in 1999 at Lake Laberge's camping area issued strong cautions against eating the livers of burbot, and counseled against the consumption of lake trout more than twice a month per individual. Both warnings are due to toxaphene contamination, resulting from global pesticide use and overfishing in Lake Laberge which resulted in changes to its typical food chain.

Use in media
Lake Laberge is mentioned by name in Robert W. Service's "The Cremation of Sam McGee" as the location of the Alice May where Sam McGee is cremated. In the poem, the lake is called "Lake Lebarge."

title: Lake Laberge


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Lele

Lele may refer to:

Places

 * Lélé, Cameroon
 * Lélé River of the Cameroon
 * Lele, Nepal
 * Lele, the Hungarian name for Lelei village, Hodod Commune, Satu Mare County, Romania
 * Lele, Togo
 * Lele, an ancient name of Lahaina, Hawaii

Languages

 * Lele language (Bantu)
 * Lele people, from the Democratic Republic of the Congo
 * Lele language (Chad), an Afro-Asiatic language
 * Lele language (Guinea), a Mande language
 * Lele language (Papua New Guinea), an Austronesian language
 * Lyélé language, a Niger–Congo language, also known as Lele
 * Tiagba language, a Niger–Congo language, also known as Lélé

Individuals

 * Lelé (1918-2003), Brazilian footballer
 * Lele (rapper) (1986–2010), Puerto Rican rapper
 * Lele Forood (born 1956), American college tennis coach
 * Lele Hardy (born 1988), American basketball player
 * Lele Marchitelli (born 1955), Italian musician
 * Lele Pons (born 1996), American internet celebrity
 * João Filgueiras Lima (1931–2014), Brazilian architect also known as Lelé
 * Ambrus Lele (born 1958), Hungarian handballer
 * Ashish Kishore Lele (born 1967), Indian chemical engineer
 * Boniface Lele (1947–2014), Roman Catholic bishop
 * Lailatou Amadou Lele (born 1983), Nigerien taekwondo practitioner
 * Pushkar Lele (born 1979), Hindustani classical vocalist
 * Ramachandra Datatraya Lele (born 1928), Indian physician
 * Shrikant Lele (born 1943), Indian metallurgical engineer
 * William Lele, English Member of Parliament in 1406
 * Yu Lele (born 1989), Chinese competitor in synchronized swimming
 * Lele (footballer), Spanish footballer
 * Lelê (footballer, born 1990), Wesley de Jesus Correia, Brazilian footballer
 * Lelê (footballer, born 1997), Leanderson da Silva Genésio, Brazilian footballer

Other uses

 * Lele, Indonesian, Javanese, and Sundanese word for catfish, as in the dish Pecel Lele
 * Tapu Lele, a generation VII Pokémon species
 * Lele (mascot), the official mascot of the Nanjing 2014 Summer Youth Olympics
 * Iso Lele, a car produced by the Italian manufacturer Iso Automoveicoli S.p.A. between 1969 and 1974

title: Lele


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Bibliography of King Arthur

This is a bibliography of works about King Arthur, his family, his friends or his enemies. This bibliography includes works that are notable or are by notable authors.

6th century

 * De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae by Gildas (mentions the Battle of Mons Badonicus, but famously neglects to mention Arthur)

9th century

 * Historia Brittonum attributed to Nennius

Latin

 * Annales Cambriae, anonymous

Welsh

 * Preiddeu Annwfn attributed to Taliesin
 * Pa Gur yv y Porthaur, anonymous (a dialogue between Arthur and a gatekeeper, in which he boasts about Cei's battle with the Cath Palug)
 * Englynion y Beddau, anonymous (Arthur's grave site is a mystery)

Latin

 * The Legend of St. Goeznovius, anonymous c. 1019 (Saxon resurgence when Arthur is "recalled from the actions of the world" may be a reference to his immortality.; Vortigern mentioned)
 * Vita Sancti Cadoc by Lifris of Llancarfan c. 1086 (Arthur wants to ravish Gwladys whom Gundliauc elopes with, but aids them by Kay and Bedivere's counsel. St. Cadoc harbors a killer of Arthur's men and pays cattle as recompense, but they transform into bundles of ferns. )

Welsh

 * Trioedd Ynys Prydein 11th–14th century. (Twelve triads referring to Arthur. Others mention Mabon and Drystan,  etc.)
 * Trioedd y meirch (lit. 'The Triads of the Horses') (mentions the horse names of Cei (Sir Kay), Gwalchmai's horse Ceincaled. )
 * Tri Thlws ar Ddeg Ynys Prydain 15th–16th centuries
 * Pedwar marchog ar hugain llys 15th–16th centuries (mentions the sword Caledfwlch and the spear Rhongomiant )

Welsh

 * Culhwch and Olwen, anonymous, c. 1100

Latin

 * Vita Sancti Carannog c. 1100 (at Arthur's requests, Carantoc tames a dragon. Cato (=Kay) is depicted as feeding it. )
 * Vita Sancti Euflami c. 1100 (Arthur cannot defeat dragon, but Efflam causes it to plunge from a rock through prayer )
 * Vita Sancti Paternus c. 1120s (mentions Arthur and Caradoc)
 * Gesta Regum Anglorum by William of Malmesbury 1125 (Arthur wears image of Mary; Discovery of Gawain's tomb. )
 * Historia Anglorum by Henry of Huntingdon 1129 (mentions Arthur)
 * Vita Santi Gildae by Caradoc of Llancarfan c. 1120 (early version of Malegant-Guenivere abduction narrative.)
 * Works of Geoffrey of Monmouth are the main source of information for those writing on the legend.
 * Historia Regum Britanniae c. 1136
 * Vita Merlini c. 1150
 * Vera historia de morte Arthuri
 * De miraculis sanctae Mariae Laudunensis by Herman of Tournai 1147 (early witness to the legend of Arthur's survival)
 * Life of Saint Kentigern by Jocelyn of Furness c. 1185 (contains a version of the legend of Merlin, here called Lailoken )
 * Vita Sancti Illtud c. 1190s (Illtud came across from Brittany to visit his cousin Arthur's court. King Mark mentioned.)

French and Anglo-Norman

 * Roman de Brut by Wace c. 1155 (an Anglo-Norman verse reworking of Historia Regum Britanniae)
 * Draco Normannicus by Étienne de Rouen c. 1169 (an epic chronicle of Normandy, it is the first text to mention Morgan Le Fay as Arthur's sister)
 * Tristan by Thomas of Britain c. 1170s
 * Tristan by Béroul c. 1170s
 * Folie Tristan d'Oxford, c. 1175
 * The Lais of Marie de France c. 1170s
 * Lanval
 * Chevrefoil (an episode of the Tristan and Iseult story)
 * The poems of Chrétien de Troyes
 * Erec and Enide c. 1170s
 * Cligés c. 1170s
 * Yvain, the Knight of the Lion c. 1180s
 * Lancelot, the Knight of the Cart c. 1180s
 * Perceval, le Conte du Graal c. 1190
 * Tristan mentioned but non-extant
 * The poems of Robert de Boron
 * Joseph d'Arimathie (poem) (extant)
 * Merlin (partly extant in 300 lines)
 * Perceval
 * The Didot Perceval c. 1190 (a rendering of a lost poem titled Perceval by Robert de Boron)
 * Le Bel Inconnu by Renaut de Beujeu c. 1191
 * Lai du Cor by Robert Biket (Caradoc succeeds in drinking from horn, proves wife's chastity)
 * La Mantel Mautaillé (Caradoc's wife passes the chastity test by wearing an ill-fitting mantel)
 * La Mule sans frein c. 1200

German

 * Tristan by Eilhart von Oberge c. 1170s
 * Lanzelet by Ulrich von Zatzikhoven late 12th century (a rendering of a lost French tale of Lancelot that likely predates Chrétien de Troyes's famous Lancelot or the Knight of the Cart. Ulrich von Zatzikhoven obtained a copy of the original book in 1194 and translated the work from French into German.)
 * The poems of Hartmann von Aue
 * Iwein, late 12th century (German adaptation of Chrétien's Yvain, the Knight of the Lion)
 * Erec, late 12th century (expanded reworking of Chrétien's Erec and Enide)

French, Anglo-Norman or Provençal

 * Roman de Fergus by Guillaume le Clerc 1190s/1200s
 * Jaufré c. 1180 (Occitan verse)
 * La Vengeance Raguidel c. 1200 by Raoul (sometimes identified as Raoul de Houdenc)
 * Lancelot-Grail (Vulgate Cycle), anonymous c. 1210s
 * Estoire del Saint Grail
 * Estoire de Merlin
 * Lancelot propre
 * Queste del Saint Graal
 * Mort Artu
 * Perlesvaus, anonymous, c. 1210s
 * Prose Tristan by "Luce de Gat" (1230s) and "Helie de Boron" (c. 1240)
 * Post-Vulgate Cycle, anonymous begun 1230s, finished 1240s
 * Palamedes composed between 1235 and 1240
 * L'âtre périlleux, anonymous c. 1250
 * The Marvels of Rigomer, c. 1250
 * Roman de Silence by Heldrius de Cornwall c. 1260s
 * Roman de Roi Artus aka Compilation by Rusticiano (Rustichello da Pisa); Franco-Italian, c. 1290s
 * Gyron le courtois (published 1501?)
 * Meliadus de Leonnoys (published 1528 by Galliot du Pré, 1532 by Denys Janot)

German

 * Tristan by Gottfried von Strassburg c. 1210s
 * Parzival by Wolfram von Eschenbach c. 1210s
 * Wigalois by Wirnt von Grafenberg c. 1210
 * Daniel von Blumenthal by Der Stricker c. 1220
 * Diu Crône by Heinrich von dem Türlin
 * The poems of Der Pleier
 * Garel von dem blühenden Tal, c. 1230s or c. 1250
 * Tandareis und Flordibel c. 1250
 * Meleranz c. 1250
 * Der Mantel, once attributed to Heinrich von dem Türlin (the "ill-fitting mantle" chastity test theme)

Norse

 * Brother Robert's prose renditions
 * Tristrams saga ok Ísöndar 1226 (Norse reworking Tristan by Thomas of Britain)
 * Ívens saga 1226 (Norse reworking of Chrétien's Yvain, the Knight of the Lion)
 * Erex saga, perhaps originally by Robert (text probably changed in MS. transmission; a Norse reworking of Chrétien's Erec and Enide)
 * Parcevals saga
 * Valvens þáttr
 * Möttuls saga, adaptation of the "ill-fitting mantle" motif
 * Strengleikar (translations of lais mostly by Marie de France)
 * "Geitarlauf" (translation of Chevrefoil)
 * "Januals ljóð" (translation of Lanval)

English

 * Brut by Layamon (English reworking of Historia Regum Britanniae)
 * Sir Tristrem c. 1300 (English reworking of Tristan by Thomas of Britain)
 * Arthour and Merlin c. 1300

Dutch

 * Roman van Walewein by Penninc and Pieter Vostaert
 * Roman van Ferguut (translation and reworking of the Roman de Fergus)
 * The Lancelot Compilation (an adaptation of the Lancelot-Grail and other romances, 10 in all: )
 * Lanceloet
 * Perchevael
 * Moriaen (Morien)
 * Queeste vanden Grale
 * Wrake van Ragisel (adaptation of Vengeance Raguidel)
 * Ridder metter mouwen ("The Knight with the Sleeve" )
 * Walewein ende Keye
 * Lanceloet en het hert met de witte voet ("Lancelot and the Stag with the White Foot")
 * Torec by Jacob van Maerlant
 * Arturs doet

Hebrew

 * Melech Artus, a 1279 Hebrew translation, and the first in that language, which was published in Italy. Contains several short parts of the Vulgate Cycle: the Pendragon's seduction of Igraine and Arthur's death. Total of 5 pages, at the end of a larger codex on calendar astronomy titled Sefer ha-I'bbur ("the book of making leap years"). Anonymous author.

Welsh

 * Brut y Brenhinedd (Welsh chronicle adaptation of Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae)
 * The Dream of Rhonabwy, anonymous
 * The Black Book of Carmarthen, anonymous (mentions Arthur)

English

 * Alliterative Morte Arthure, anonymous
 * Stanzaic Morte Arthur, anonymous
 * The Avowyng of Arthur
 * The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle, anonymous
 * The Awntyrs off Arthure, anonymous
 * Sir Cleges (not closely related to Chrestien's Cliges; set in Uther Pendragon's court)
 * Sir Gawain and the Green Knight by The Pearl Poet
 * Sir Launfal by Thomas Chestre (a remaking of the lai of Lanval)
 * Sir Libeaus Desconus
 * Yvain and Gawain
 * Sir Perceval of Galles
 * Lancelot of the Laik

Welsh
(All dates for the Welsh compositions are controversial)

 * Mabinogion, anonymous
 * Culhwch and Olwen (recorded)
 * The Welsh Romances
 * Owain, or the Lady of the Fountain
 * Geraint and Enid
 * Peredur, son of Efrawg

Italian

 * Tavola Rottonda, anonymous

French

 * Perceforest, anonymous

Catalan

 * La Faula by Guillem de Torroella

Greek

 * O Presbus Ippotes (Ὁ Πρέσβυς Ἱππότης, ; a Greek reworking of part of Rustichello da Pisa's Compilations)

English

 * Arthur
 * Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory
 * Prose Merlin
 * "King Arthur and King Cornwall"
 * Sir Gawain and the Carle of Carlisle

Italian

 * Orlando Innamorato by Matteo Maria Boiardo
 * La Tavola Ritonda, anonymous

Icelandic

 * Skikkjurímur, (a rendition of the "ill-fitting mantle" story)

Breton

 * An Dialog etre Arzur Roe d'an Bretounet ha Guynglaff, anonymous

English

 * Arthur of Little Britain
 * The Greene Knight c. 1500
 * The Boy and the Mantle (ballad in the Percy Folio, chastity test story of the "ill-fitting mantle" and the horn)
 * The Knightly Tale of Gologras and Gawain 1508
 * The Jeaste of Sir Gawain
 * The Misfortunes of Arthur by Thomas Hughes, 1587
 * The Faerie Queene by Edmund Spenser, 1590

Welsh

 * Tristan Romance, preserved in fragmentary form in several MSS.

Byelo-Russian

 * Povest' o Tryshchane 1560s

Yiddish

 * Viduvilt (Yiddish reworking of Wigalois)

English

 * Works of Richard Johnson
 * Tom a Lincoln (1607)
 * The History of Tom Thumbe, the Little, for his small stature surnamed, King Arthurs Dwarfe (1621)
 * The Birth of Merlin, or, The Childe Hath Found His Father by William Rowley (?1620; first published 1662)
 * Works of Richard Blackmore
 * Prince Arthur: An Heroick Poem in Ten Books (1695)
 * King Arthur: An Heroick Poem in Twelve Books (1697)

18th century

 * The History of Jack and the Giants, published by J. White (1711)
 * Warton, Thomas (1728–1790)
 * "The Grave of King Arthur" (1777)
 * "On King Arthur's Round-table at Winchester" (1777)
 * Vortigern and Rowena by W. H. Ireland (1799) (a Shakespearian forgery)

19th century

 * "Arthur o' Bower" (1805)
 * By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
 * The Lady of Shalott (1833)
 * Idylls of the King (1859–1885)
 * The Legends of King Arthur and His Knights by James Knowles (1862)
 * The Boy's King Arthur by Sidney Lanier (1880)
 * Tristram of Lyonesse by Algernon Charles Swinburne (1882)
 * A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court by Mark Twain (1889)

English

 * Howard Pyle - In a four volume set including:
 * "The Story of King Arthur and His Knights" (1903)
 * "The Story of the Champions of the Round Table" (1905)
 * "The Story of Sir Launcelot and His Companions" (1907)
 * "The Story of the Grail and the Passing of King Arthur" (1910)
 * Kairo-kō (1905) by Natsume Sōseki
 * The Life of Sir Aglovale de Galis (1905) by Clemence Housman
 * War in Heaven (1930) by Charles W. S. Williams, a "modern-day" (20th century) quest for the Holy Grail
 * The Little Wench (1935) by Philip Lindsay
 * Merlin's Godson by H. Warner Munn
 * King of the World's Edge (1936)
 * The Ship from Atlantis (1967)
 * Merlin's Ring (1974)
 * Taliessin through Logres (1938) and The Region of the Summer Stars (1944) by Charles W. S. Williams (poem cycles)
 * The Once and Future King by T. H. White including
 * The Sword in the Stone (1938)
 * The Queen of Air and Darkness (or The Witch in the Wood) (1939)
 * The Ill-Made Knight (1940)
 * The Candle in the Wind (1958)
 * The Book of Merlyn (1958)
 * That Hideous Strength (1945) by C. S. Lewis
 * Porius (A Romance of the Dark Ages) (1951) by John Cowper Powys
 * King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table (1953) by Roger Lancelyn Green
 * The Great Captains (1956) by Henry Treece
 * Rosemary Sutcliff's Arthurian novels:
 * The Lantern Bearers (1959)
 * Sword at Sunset (1963)
 * Tristan and Iseult (1971)
 * The Shining Company (1990), a retelling of the Y Gododdin, which contains the earliest mention of Arthur's name
 * The Arthurian Trilogy (1979–1981), re-issued in an omnibus edition in 2007 as The King Arthur Trilogy:
 * The Light Beyond the Forest (1979)
 * The Sword and the Circle (1981)
 * The Road to Camlann (1981)
 * A Trace of Memory (1963) by Keith Laumer
 * The Merlin series by Mary Stewart
 * The Crystal Cave (1970)
 * The Hollow Hills (1973)
 * The Last Enchantment (1979)
 * The Wicked Day (1983)
 * The Prince and the Pilgrim (1995)
 * The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights (1975) by John Steinbeck
 * The Mabinogion Tetralogy (1974) by Evangeline Walton.
 * Arthur Rex: A Legendary Novel by Thomas Berger (1978)
 * The Three Damosels (1978) and The Enchantresses (1998) by Vera Chapman (the latter with Mike Ashley)
 * The Old French Tristan Poems (1980) by David J. Shirt
 * The Mists of Avalon (1983) by Marion Zimmer Bradley
 * L'Enchanteur (1984) by René Barjavel
 * The White Raven (1988) by Diana L. Paxson (Tristan and Isseult)
 * The Pendragon Cycle by Stephen Lawhead
 * Taliesin (1987)
 * Merlin (1988)
 * Arthur (1989)
 * Pendragon (1994)
 * Grail (1997)
 * Avalon (1999)
 * The Guinevere trilogy by Persia Woolley
 * Child of the Northern Spring (1987)
 * Queen of the Summer Stars (1991)
 * Guinevere: The Legend in Autumn (1993)
 * Knight Life (1987), One Knight Only (2004) and Fall of Knight (2007) by Peter David
 * The Road to Avalon (1988) by Joan Wolf
 * The King (1990) by Donald Barthelme
 * The Arthor series by A. A. Attanasio
 * The Dragon and the Unicorn (1994)
 * The Eagle and the Sword (1997)
 * The Wolf and the Crown (1998)
 * The Serpent and the Grail (1999)
 * The Child Queen (1994), The High Queen (1995), (collected in Queen of Camelot (2002)), Prince of Dreams (2004), and Grail Prince (2003) by Nancy McKenzie
 * I Am Mordred (1998) by Nancy Springer
 * Hallowed Isle by Diana L. Paxson: The Book of the Sword (1999), The Book of the Spear (1999), The Book of the Cauldron (1999), The Book of the Stone (2000).
 * The Guenevere novels by Rosalind Miles
 * Guenevere, Queen of the Summer Country (1999)
 * The Knight of the Sacred Lake (2000)
 * Child of the Holy Grail (2000)
 * The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell
 * The Winter King
 * Enemy of God
 * Excalibur
 * By Jane Yolen:
 * Sword of the Rightful King
 * The Young Merlin Trilogy
 * By Gerald Morris:
 * The Squire's Tale
 * The Squire, His Knight, and His Lady
 * The Savage Damsel and the Dwarf
 * Parsifal's Page
 * The Ballad of Sir Dinadan
 * The Princess, the Crone, and the Dung-Cart Knight
 * The Lioness and her Knight
 * The Quest of the Fair Unknown
 * Squire's Quest
 * The Legend of the King
 * The Adventures of Sir Givret the Short
 * The Adventures of Sir Lancelot the Great
 * By Molly Cochran and Warren Murphy
 * The Forever King
 * The Broken Sword
 * The Third Magic
 * The Coming of the King: The First Book of Merlin by Nikolai Tolstoy (1988)
 * Stones of Power by David Gemmell
 * Ghost King (1988)
 * Last Sword of Power (1988)
 * Anonymous
 * King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table (Illustrated Junior Library, Deluxe edition, September 1, 1950)
 * To the Chapel Perilous Naomi Mitchison (1955)
 * Artorius by John Heath-Stubbs
 * Quirinius, Britannia's Last Roman by Erik Hildinger (2021)
 * Our Man in Camelot by Anthony Price (1975) (The sixth book in the Dr. David Audley series uses the Arthur myth as a MacGuffin in a modern spy thriller.)
 * By Parke Godwin
 * Firelord (1980)
 * Beloved Exile (1984)
 * The Last Rainbow (1985)
 * The Pendragon's Banner Trilogy by Helen Hollick (re-published UK 2007 & USA 2009)
 * Book One: The Kingmaking (1994)
 * Book Two: Pendragon's Banner (1995)
 * Book Three: Shadow of the King (1997)
 * The Tales of Arthur, books of The Keltiad, by Patricia Kennealy-Morrison
 * The Hawk's Grey Feather (1991)
 * The Oak Above the Kings (1994)
 * The Hedge of Mist (1996)
 * A Dream of Eagles (Camulod Chronicles) by Jack Whyte
 * The Sky Stone (1992)
 * The Singing Sword (1993)
 * The Eagles' Brood (1994)
 * The Saxon Shore (1998)
 * The Sorcerer Part 1: The Fort at River's Bend (1997)
 * The Sorcerer Part 2: The Sorcerer: Metamorphosis (1999)
 * Uther (2001)
 * Clothar the Frank (titled The Lance Thrower outside of Canada) (2004)
 * The Eagle (2006)
 * The Lost Years of Merlin Epic, by T.A. Barron
 * The Lost Years of Merlin (1996)
 * The Seven Songs of Merlin (1997)
 * The Fires of Merlin (1998)
 * The Mirror of Merlin (1999)
 * The Wings of Merlin (2000)
 * Albion, a trilogy of historical novels by British author Patrick McCormack (1997, 2000, 2007)
 * The King Awakes and The Empty Throne by Janice Elliott, set in a Medieval-style society several generations after a nuclear war. Both novels deal with the return of King Arthur and his friendship with a youth from the post-holocaust world
 * Merlin's Bones by Fred Saberhagen
 * The Idylls of the Queen by Phyllis Ann Karr
 * Eagle in the Snow by Wallace Breem; the coming of Arthur is foreseen by the chief of Segontium in the last page of the book
 * The Winter Prince by Elizabeth Wein
 * The Dragon Lord by David Drake
 * Merlin's Mirror (1975) by Andre Norton
 * The Return of Merlin (1995) by Deepak Chopra
 * Guinevere series (1996), by Sharan Newman.
 * Black Horses for the King (1996) by Anne McCaffrey.
 * Camelot 3000, a comic book series that reincarnates Arthur and his knights in the far future
 * The Dark Is Rising, a series written for older children and young adults, by Susan Cooper
 * The Fionavar Tapestry, a fantasy trilogy by Canadian author Guy Gavriel Kay
 * The Merlin Mystery, A puzzlehunt book which focused heavily on Merlin and Nimue having a love after Arthur has been entombed; it offered a cash prize as well as a gold, silver, bronze and crystal wand. However, the puzzle went unsolved and the prize unclaimed.
 * The Down the Long Wind series by Gillian Bradshaw (1980–82)
 * Hawk of May
 * Kingdom of Summer
 * In Winter's Shadow
 * The Little Wench by Philip Lindsay
 * Merlin (1978) by Robert Nye
 * A Lady of King Arthur's Court (1907) by Sara Hawks Sterling

Welsh

 * Ymadawiad Arthur (1902) by Thomas Gwynn Jones

21st century

 * The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel series by Michael Scott mentions many artifacts and characters from Arthurian legend
 * The Magic Tree House Books (1992–present) by Mary Pope Osbourne, feature Morgan Le Fay as a prominent character in the original series. The later series, entitled The Magic Tree House: Merlin Missions, more prominently included elements from Arthurian Legend. Includes works such as:
 * Christmas in Camelot (2001)
 * Haunted Castle on Hallow's Eve (2003)
 * Summer of the Sea Serpent (2004)
 * Winter of the Ice Wizard (2004)
 * Night of the Ninth Dragon (2016)
 * I am Morgan le Fay (2001) by Nancy Springer
 * The Merlin Codex by Robert Holdstock
 * Celtika (2001)
 * The Iron Grail (2002)
 * The Broken Kings (2007)
 * Tales of Guinevere series by Alice Borchardt.
 * Corbenic by Catherine Fisher (2002)
 * Tristan and Isolde (2002) series by Rosalind Miles
 * Sword of the Rightful King by Jane Yolen (2003)
 * The House of Pendragon by Debra A. Kemp
 * I: The Firebrand (2003)
 * II: The Recruit (2007)
 * The Extraordinary Adventures of Alfred Kropp by Rick Yancey (2005)
 * Douglas Clegg: Mordred, Bastard Son (2006)
 * Fate/Zero by Gen Urobuchi (2006–2007)
 * Dracula vs. King Arthur by Adam Beranek, Christian Beranek and Chris Moreno (2007)
 * Orion and King Arthur by Ben Bova (2011)
 * Song of the Sparrow by Lisa Ann Sandell (2007)
 * Camelot Lost by Jessica Bonito (Jessica McHugh) (2008)
 * Avalon High by Meg Cabot
 * The Sangreal Trilogy by Amanda Hemingway
 * Sword of Darkness by Kinley MacGregor
 * Knight of Darkness by Kinley MacGregor
 * Here Lies Arthur by Philip Reeve
 * The Book of Mordred by Vivian Vande Velde
 * Sons of Avalon, Merlin's Prophecy by Dee Marie (2008)
 * Sarah Zettel's four-part series about the brothers Gawain, Gareth, Agravain, and Geraint:
 * In Camelot's Shadow (2004)
 * For Camelot's Honor (2005)
 * Under Camelot's Banner (2006)
 * Camelot's Blood (2008)
 * Merlin's Dragon Trilogy by T.A. Barron
 * Merlin Book 6: The Dragon of Avalon; originally issued as Merlin's Dragon (2008)
 * Merlin Book 7: Doomraga's Revenge (2009)
 * Merlin Book 8: Ultimate Magic (2010)
 * The Great Tree of Avalon Trilogy
 * Merlin Book 9: The Great Tree of Avalon; originally issued as Child of the Dark Prophecy (2004)
 * Merlin Book 10: Shadows on the Stars (2005)
 * Merlin Book 11: The Eternal Flame (2007)
 * Gwenhwyfar (2009) by Mercedes Lackey.
 * By Nakaba Suzuki
 * The Seven Deadly Sins (2012–2020), a manga loosely based on the Arthurian legend
 * Four Knights of the Apocalypse (2021–present)
 * The School for Good and Evil series contains many Arthurian figures, including King Arthur's son as a central character (2013–2020)
 * The Fall of Arthur by J.R.R. Tolkien (published 2013, written circa 1920–30s)
 * The Devices Trilogy by Philip Purser-Hallard, starting with The Pendragon Protocol (2014)
 * The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro (2015)
 * Garden of Avalon by Kinoko Nasu
 * Camelot Rising trilogy by Kiersten White
 * The Guinevere Deception (2019)
 * The Camelot Betrayal (2020)
 * The Excalibur Curse (2021)
 * Seven Endless Forests by April Genevieve Tucholke (2020)
 * Legendborn by Tracy Deonn (2020)

Nonfiction

 * Arthur's Britain by Leslie Alcock
 * The Quest for Arthur's Britain by Geoffrey Ashe
 * The Medieval Quest for Arthur by Robert Rouse and Cory Rushton
 * The Quest for Merlin by Nikolai Tolstoy (1985)
 * The Age of Arthur: A History of the British Isles from 350 to 650 John Morris
 * King Arthur: The Making of the Legend by Nicholas J. Higham
 * King Arthur: Myth-Making and History by Nicholas J. Higham
 * The Development of Arthurian Romance by Roger Sherman Loomis
 * Arthurian Literature in the Middle Ages edited by Roger Sherman Loomis

Depictions in other media

 * List of works based on Arthurian legends

title: Bibliography of King Arthur


text:
Viola elatior

Viola elatior, the fen violet, is a species of violet native to central and northern Europe and northern Asia. In the British Isles it is very rare, occurring in a few fens in England and near the western coast of Ireland.

The violet is also known as viola persicifolia and viola stagnina.

Description
Viola elatior grows to a height of 10 to 30 cm from a creeping rhizome, with narrow, triangular leaves 7 to 15 mm across. The flowers are produced in late spring to early summer, 10 to 15 mm diameter, pale bluish or yellowish-white with a short, greenish or yellowish spur. The petals are rounded and broad in relation to their width.

Distribution and habitat
Viola elatior occurs in native to central and northern Europe and northern Asia. Its habitat is confined to very local damp, lime-rich places, in long herbage (fens and limy marshes).

The plant is fussy about where it grows; seeds germinates in the spring on moist bare patches of base-rich peaty soil, but the seedlings only become established if the soil surface becomes drier. Most seeds germinate in close proximity to the parent plant so dispersal is limited. Habitat disturbance may cause the violet to disappear from a former habitat, but the seeds are very long-lived and new plants sometimes appear many years later.

In the British Isles, it is rare, confined to eastern and northern England and damp hollows with limestone soils in western Ireland. Efforts are being made to re-introduce it to newly suitable habitat in the Fens as part of the Great Fen Project. It occurs at a few locations in Northern Ireland, on rocky limestone lake shores around Upper Lough Erne and in turloughs or ephemeral pools around Fardrum, in County Fermanagh, and because of its rarity there, it is listed as a Northern Ireland Priority Species.

title: Viola elatior


text:
Pechanga Arena

Pechanga Arena is an indoor arena in San Diego, California. The arena is home of the San Diego Gulls of the American Hockey League (AHL), San Diego Seals of the National Lacrosse League (NLL), and the San Diego Strike Force of the Indoor Football League (IFL).

Opened in 1966, the arena has been home to numerous athletic teams in several different sports. Of the major professional leagues, the arena hosted the National Basketball Association (NBA)'s San Diego Rockets from 1967 to 1971 and San Diego Clippers from 1978 to 1984.

In 2023, Stan Kroenke's development group announced that it will be the chief investor for the redevelopment of the site; a project known as Midway Rising. The proposal includes a modern 16,000-seat arena, housing units, multi-acre urban park, and a mixed-use entertainment, arts, and cultural district.

History
The arena was built in 1966 for $6.4 million by Robert Breitbard, a local football player who played for the San Diego State Aztecs. The arena could seat 13,000 for hockey or 13,700 for basketball. At 77 feet tall, the arena was built six years before the current 30 foot maximum height restriction was put into place by the State Coastal Commission in the Midway-Pacific Highway Community Plan.

The arena opened on November 17, 1966, when more than 11,000 pro hockey fans watched the San Diego Gulls (then a member of the Western Hockey League) win their season opener, 4–1, against the Seattle Totems.

In 2013, U-T San Diego named the arena #3 on its list of the 50 most notable locations in San Diego sports history.

Naming history
Due to the rights to name the arena being sold over time, the arena has changed names: iPayOne, a real estate savings company based in Carlsbad, California, held the arena's naming rights from 2004 until 2007. The deal was worth $2.5 million over five years. In April 2007 the leasing rights holder Arena Group 2000 cancelled the remainder of the contract due to non-payment by iPayOne.
 * San Diego International Sports Arena (November 17, 1966—1970)
 * San Diego Sports Arena (1970—March 19, 2005; May 9, 2007—November 12, 2010; December 1, 2018—December 5, 2018)
 * iPayOne Center (March 20, 2005—May 8, 2007)
 * Valley View Casino Center (November 13, 2010—November 30, 2018)
 * Pechanga Arena (December 5, 2018—present)

On October 12, 2010, it was announced that the arena's name had been changed to the "Valley View Casino Center", under a $1.5 million, 5-year agreement between the arena operator AEG, the San Pasqual Band of Diegueno Mission Indians and the city of San Diego.

Valley View Casino's naming rights expired November 30, 2018, leaving the arena without an official name until the city council announced on December 4, 2018, that the Pechanga Band of Luiseño Indians, owners of the Pechanga Resort & Casino in Temecula, had acquired for $400,000 per year the naming rights to the arena, officially renaming it "Pechanga Arena". The agreement expired in May 2020.

Sports
The arena seats 12,000 for indoor football, 12,920 for ice hockey, indoor soccer and box lacrosse, 14,500 for basketball and tennis, 5,450 for amphitheater concerts and stage shows, 8,900–14,800 for arena concerts, 13,000 for ice shows and the circus, and 16,100 for boxing and mixed martial arts.

The arena opened on November 17, 1966, with the San Diego Gulls (then a member of the Western Hockey League) winning their season opener, 4–1, against the Seattle Totems. The Gulls were the arena's first tenant. The San Diego State Aztecs men's basketball team join the Gulls on a part-time basis soon afterwards; they played home games at the arena off-and-on to supplement their on-campus, much smaller venue, Peterson Gymnasium. The Aztecs played at the arena until 1997, when they opened their new on-campus venue, Viejas Arena.

On October 14, 1967, the NBA expansion San Diego Rockets became the arena's first professional basketball tenant when they played their season opener and first game in franchise history against the St. Louis Hawks, narrowly losing 98–99.

On January 12, 1971, the Rockets hosted the 1971 NBA All-Star Game at the arena.

At the conclusion of the 1970–71 NBA Season, the Rockets were sold and relocated to Houston. As a result, San Francisco Warriors owner Franklin Mieuli, who was looking for more support for his franchise, decided to make a play for the San Diego market (in addition to the Oakland market, where Oakland Arena had just received a renovation project). Mieuli changed his team's name to the Golden State Warriors for the upcoming season in order to target the state of California as a whole for a fanbase, instead of a single metropolitan area. The Warriors planned to split the season's home games between the San Francisco Bay Area and San Diego. The Warriors ultimately hosted just six regular season home games at the San Diego Sports Arena, one each month of the 1971–72 season (October–March). The remainder of the Warriors' home games that season were played at Oakland Arena, where the Warriors settled full-time the following season.

As the Warriors returned to the Bay Area full-time after their brief experiment in San Diego, the NBA's primary competitor league, the American Basketball Association (ABA) awarded its first—and as it turned out, only—expansion team to San Diego. Dr. Leonard Bloom (President and CEO of the United States Capital Corporation) paid a $1 million expansion fee to the league to start the team. The San Diego Conquistadors began play in the 1972–73 ABA season; however, they were unable to use the Sports Arena for their first two seasons of existence due to a feud between Bloom and Peter Graham, manager of the city-owned 14,400-seat Sports Arena. The Conquistadors (or "Q's" as they were commonly known locally), played at Peterson Gymnasium on the campus of San Diego State University from 1972 until 1974 as a result of the feud.

In late 1974, the Q's were finally allowed to use the Sports Arena, but their first season at the arena would turn out to be their only full season there. In 1975, the ABA, facing mounting financial difficulties, was rumored to be discussing a merger with the NBA and the San Diego franchise was not to be included. The Conquistadors, freshly renamed the Sails, would cease operations just 11 games into the 1975–76 ABA season on November 12, 1975, when the ABA announced that it was folding the San Diego Sails franchise. The Sails were scheduled to host the Indiana Pacers on that day but the game was not played.

In 1972, the Republican Party considered the arena for its National Convention. With little warning, however, the GOP decided to hold the convention in Miami Beach. To compensate for this blow to local prestige, then-mayor (and future California governor) Pete Wilson gave San Diego the by-name of "America's Finest City", which is still the city's official moniker.

The arena was the host of the 1973 Muhammad Ali vs. Ken Norton boxing fight, which, by split decision, San Diego resident Norton won.

The 1975 NCAA men's basketball Final Four was held at the arena from March 15, 1975, until the national championship game on March 31, where UCLA was victorious in John Wooden's final game.

In 1978, less than three years after the Sails folded and the ABA's four surviving teams merged with the NBA, the NBA returned to San Diego with the relocation of the Buffalo Braves, which became the San Diego Clippers. In 1981, the Clippers were bought by Los Angeles-based developer Donald Sterling. Sterling, despite failing to gain approval from the NBA to relocate the team to Los Angeles in 1982 and again in 1984, did so anyway following the 1983–84 NBA season, which led to a lawsuit from the league. The team ultimately remained in Los Angeles, however, following a counter-lawsuit brought on by Sterling. The franchise has kept the Clippers name despite its reference being to the ships of San Diego Bay. San Diego has not hosted an NBA regular game since the Clippers' departure.

In both 1979 and 1981 at the San Diego Indoor Track Meet, Irish distance runner Eamonn Coghlan broke the world record for the indoor mile. A photo of him crossing the finish line appeared around the world including on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Coghlan's time for the 1981 race is still the world record for the indoor mile.

The arena has also been home of the San Diego Mariners of the World Hockey Association from 1974 to 1977, the San Diego Friars of World Team Tennis (WTT) from 1975 to 1978, the San Diego Sockers indoor soccer team, which won 10 titles in the arena, and other minor professional sports franchises. The San Diego Sockers made their return to the arena in 2012 for their fourth season in the PASL-Pro from Del Mar Arena. The San Diego Aviators of WTT relocated from New York City prior to the 2014 season and began playing their home matches in the arena. On December 29, 2014, the Aviators announced that the team would move its home matches to the Omni La Costa Resort and Spa in nearby Carlsbad for the 2015 season.

The Boston Bruins, whose home ice was of the same dimensions, used the San Diego Gulls as a farm team in the 1960s and 1970s.

The arena has hosted a series of UFC events. The arena hosted UFC Live: Jones vs. Matyushenko on August 1, 2010. The arena hosted UFC Fight Night: Mir vs. Duffee on July 15, 2015. The arena hosted UFC on ESPN: Vera vs. Cruz on August 13, 2022.

In 2015, the Anaheim Ducks relocated their American Hockey League (AHL) affiliate to San Diego to become the current iteration of the San Diego Gulls, using the arena for their home games.

On August 7, 2016, the arena played host to the Arena Football League's Los Angeles Kiss as they faced the Cleveland Gladiators in the first round of the AFL Playoffs. The game was moved to San Diego due to the Kiss' home arena, the Honda Center in Anaheim hosting the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus that weekend. The Kiss would lose to the Gladiators 56–52 in front of a crowd of 4,692. It was the first AFL game ever to be played at the arena and the first arena football game played there since 2005, when the AF2's San Diego Riptide played their home games at the arena from 2002 to 2005.

On August 29, 2017, the National Lacrosse League (NLL) announced that billionaire owner Joseph Tsai of Alibaba had been awarded an NLL franchise to begin playing in November 2018 for the 2018–2019 season. The team is known as the San Diego Seals.

In November 2018, the Indoor Football League (IFL) announced an expansion team for the 2019 season called the San Diego Strike Force. The IFL became the top level of professional Indoor football in November 2019 when the Arena Football League announced it was folding.

Concerts
The Stone Poneys played there on January 13, 1968. Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, and Surprise Package played there on August 10, 1969.

Jimi Hendrix recorded his 13-minute jam version of "Red House" there, on May 24, 1969. The full concert was released in 1991 as part of the Stages box set.

Elvis Presley played there on November 15, 1970, and April 24, 1976. Attendance was 14,659 in 1970 and 17,500 in 1976.

The Grateful Dead played there on November 14, 1973.

Queen performed there four times to sold-out crowds. Their first concert was on March 12, 1976, for their A Night at the Opera Tour which was the band's first headline tour in the US. They next performed on March 5, 1977, as part of their A Day at the Races Tour. Their next concert was during their News of the World Tour on December 16, 1977. The band's last performance was on July 5, 1980, while on The Game Tour.

The gatefold photograph inside KISS' album Alive II was shot there in 1977.

Alice Cooper played there on many occasions and it was the venue for his concert film The Strange Case of Alice Cooper in 1979.

The Bee Gees played to a sold-out crowd on July 5, 1979, during their Spirits Having Flown Tour.

ABBA played there during their 1979 world tour.

Bob Marley and The Wailers performed there on November 21, 1979, Survival Tour.

Heart performed there on August 24, 1980. The band's Greatest Hits/Live included a medley of "I'm Down" and "Long Tall Sally" recorded at the show.

Duran Duran played two nights there on April 16, 1984, and April 17, 1984, as part of their Sing Blue Silver World Tour. They played there again July 28, 1987, as part of their Strange Behaviour World Tour; also that night American all-female band The Bangles joined them on stage to sing their hit "If She Knew What She Wants". They also played there on February 25, 2005, as part of their Astronaut World Tour when they reformed the band to its original lineup.

The German heavy metal rock group The Scorpions performed there during their 1984 World Wide live tour.

Rush performed there on May 28, 1984, as part of their Grace Under Pressure Tour.

Van Halen played two shows on May 20 and 21 on their 1984 Tour; two shows on their 1986 5150 Tour on June 28 and 29, 1986; a show on their 1988 OU812 tour on November 19, 1988; two shows on their For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge Tour on May 1 and 3, 1992; and finally on their 1995 The Balance "Ambulance" Tour on April 2, 1995.

Dio performed during their Sacred Heart Tour on December 6, 1985. The show was recorded and later released as a live album, entitled Intermission.

Bon Jovi played a sold-out show on January 16, 1987, on their Slippery When Wet world tour.

Aerosmith performed during their Pump Tour on March 2, 1990.

Janet Jackson has performed six concerts at this venue. She performed a sold-out show on April 23, 1990, for her Rhythm Nation Tour. She returned to the venue on February 24, 1994, for the Janet World Tour, another sold-out show. She performed sold-out shows for her The Velvet Rope Tour and All for You Tour. She came back on September 20, 2008, for her Rock Witchu Tour. She played a date here on October 7, 2017, during her State of the World Tour.

Gloria Estefan and the Miami Sound Machine played there on three separate occasions, first on July 17, 1991, during her “Into The Light World Tour,” second on July 31, 1996, during her “Evolution World Tour,” and third on August 19, 2004, during her “Live & Re-Wrapped Tour”.

Metallica performed two consecutive shows, during their Wherever We May Roam Tour, on January 13–14, 1992. The shows were recorded and later released on VHS and DVD, entitled Live Shit: Binge & Purge on November 23, 1993.

Nirvana performed during their In Utero tour on December 29, 1993.

Diana Ross was scheduled to perform during her Return to Love Tour on August 2, 2000, but the show was cancelled, due to low ticket sales.

Tina Turner was scheduled to perform during her Twenty Four Seven Tour on December 2, 2000, with Joe Cocker as her opening act, but the show was canceled.

Britney Spears opened her 2004 Onyx Hotel Tour.

U2 performed at the venue for the first two shows of their Vertigo Tour on March 28 and 30, 2005.

Miley Cyrus performed at the arena on November 8, 2007, during her Best of Both Worlds Tour.

Lady Gaga performed at the arena on December 19, 2009, during her Monster Ball Tour.

Eric Clapton performed at the venue on March 15, 2007, with special guests JJ Cale, Doyle Bramhall II, Derek Trucks, and Robert Cray. Nine years later, Clapton released audio and video/DVD recordings of the show in honor of Cale, who died in 2013, on the live album Live in San Diego.

Britney Spears performed during The Circus Starring Britney Spears at the arena on September 24, 2009.

Justin Bieber performed a sold-out show there on October 30, 2010, as part of his My World Tour; three years later he performed there again to a sold-out show on June 22, 2013, during his Believe Tour. Bieber returned there on March 29, 2016, to perform to a sold-out show as part of his Purpose World Tour, And On February 18, 2022, Bieber returned there for his Justice World Tour.

Sorry for Party Rocking Tour June 9, 2012.

Selena Gomez performed at the arena on November 8, 2013, during her Stars Dance Tour.

Madonna played a date there on October 29, 2015, becoming her first-ever performance in the arena, during her Rebel Heart Tour. The show sold 10,500 seats and grossed over $1.6 million with ticket prices ranging from $50 to $355, becoming one of the most expensive concerts.

Muse played a date there on January 7, 2016, on their Drones World Tour.

Jason Aldean played a date there late in 2016, on his Six-String Nation Tour.

Justin Bieber played a date there on March 29, 2016, as a part of his Purpose World Tour.

Sheryl Crow, Bob Dylan, and Willie Nelson played a date there in September 2017 as part of their Outlaw Music Festival tour.

Tyler, The Creator performed at the venue on February 2, 2018, as part of a run of headlining North American tour in support of his recently released album Flower Boy.

Lana Del Rey performed at the venue on February 15, 2018, as part of her LA to the Moon Tour, with support from Kali Uchis.

Maluma performed at the venue on April 8, 2018, as part of his F.A.M.E tour.

Slayer kicked off their final tour there on May 10, 2018, with support from Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth, and Testament.

Shakira performed at the venue on September 5, 2018, as part of her El Dorado World Tour.

Local radio station KHTS-FM held its annual "Summer Kickoff Concert" at the venue on May 31, 2019. It featured Halsey, Ellie Goulding, CNCO, Bebe Rexha, NCT 127, and five other artists.

Jennifer Lopez performed at the arena on June 10, 2019, as part of her It's My Party Tour.

Country-pop singer Carrie Underwood has performed in the arena multiple times, first on October 1, 2010, during her Play On Tour; the second on October 20, 2012, during her Blown Away Tour; the third on September 16, 2016, during her Storyteller Tour: Stories in the Round; and the fourth on September 10, 2019, during her Cry Pretty Tour 360, making her one of the artists with the most performances in the arena.

Tame Impala played the first of their The Slow Rush tour concerts there on March 9, 2020, just prior to the shutdown due to the Coronavirus pandemic.

Harry Styles performed at the arena on November 15, 2021, as part of his Love On Tour.

Bad Bunny brought his El Ultimo Tour Del Mundo to Pechanga on February 23, 2022, selling out the arena. Previously, Bad Bunny played at the arena on November 22, 2019, as part of his X 100Pre Tour and on August 25, 2018, as part of his La Nueva Religión Tour.

Other events
The arena has hosted several WWE events, including many episodes of Raw and Smackdown, some ECW episodes, one episode of the original NXT, many House shows (live events), Vengeance (2001), which saw the unification of the WCW Championship and WWE Championship, Taboo Tuesday (2005), and One Night Stand (2008).

The 2011 version of Wrex the Halls was hosted here over two days with headliners Florence and the Machine and Blink-182 headlining respective nights. Both nights were sold out.

The arena has also been home to events of the original Roller Games league, featuring its flagship team, the Los Angeles Thunderbirds, as well as the alternating Roller Derby leagues of the time, featuring their flagship team, the San Francisco Bay Bombers.

The arena hosted Hot Wheels Monster Trucks Live in 2019.

Arena's future
As use of the arena for sports and entertainment declined during the 1990s and 2000s, the city considered plans to redevelop the property. A Request For Proposals (RFP) was issued, and in August 2020 Mayor Kevin Faulconer announced that the city had chosen a developer to convert the arena and its surrounding 48 acres into an entertainment district. The proposed plan would include a new sports arena, thousands of housing units, and retail and park space.

In a November 2020 election, the city's voters removed a pre-existing height limit of 30 feet on structures in the area, giving developers more flexibility. However, in June 2021 the California Department of Housing and Community Development (HCD) notified the city that the plan violated the state's recently modified Surplus Land Act, which mandates that local governments must offer surplus land first to developers who will reserve 25% of housing units for low-income families. In July the city prepared to declare the property surplus, meaning not needed for the city's use, with the condition that any proposal should include refurbishing or replacing the sports arena as an entertainment venue. If the state HCD approves that condition, the city will issue a new RFP to a state-approved list of affordable housing developers. The November 2022 election again has Measure E on the ballot for San Diego voters to remove or preserve the current height restrictions for the neighborhood zone west of the I-5 freeway and south of I-8 down to the San Diego International Airport including Liberty Station and Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego.

Three developers proposed a new mixed use arena with housing, shopping, and parks. The projects were titled "Midway Rising", "Hometown SD", and "Midway Village+", with Midway Rising eventually winning the bid. In 2023, Los Angeles Rams owner Stan Kroenke joined the Midway Rising group as a majority investor, bringing a massive boost as he had previously redeveloped the former Hollywood Park Racetrack in Inglewood.

title: Pechanga Arena


text:
Camilo Delgado

Camilo Delgado (May 29, 1927 – February 8, 2005) was a Puerto Rican television show host and producer.

Career
Delgado's interest in the dramatic arts sprouted at a young age and he acted in high school productions of Spanish plays such as Puebla de Mujeres and Prohibido Suicidarse en Primavera. While attending college in Puerto Rico, he founded the drama club at the "Instituto Politecnico" (Interamerican University) which eventually led to the creation of the university's drama department.

He pioneered television in Puerto Rico and appeared regularly as an actor, announcer, MC, talk show host, and producer. The son of a school principal and an elementary school teacher, he graduated from the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York City with honors in 1957. After acting in numerous off-Broadway productions such as The Heiress, Shakhuntala, and The Summer House, he returned to Puerto Rico and became a leading man in soap operas such as Concierto de Amor and Bajo el Vuelo de los Alcatraces. In 1970, he became an independent producer and created hits such as Sabado Gigante, Field Day por Television, Gane con Subaru, Volando con Pan Am and pioneered morning television in his country with Despierta Puerto Rico.

Delgado produced TV shows with a high quality standard, avoiding vulgarity or sensationalism. Nonetheless, he publicly opposed any kind of censorship on the content of television programs.

Personal life
Camilo Delgado was born on May 29, 1927, in Carolina. He was married to Diana Santiago for 55 years. On February 8, 2005, he died peacefully in his sleep  at the age of 78 of natural causes. He was buried at Cementerio Borinquen Memorial Park I in Caguas, Puerto Rico.

Filmography

 * 1962: Strangers in the City as Jose Alvarez
 * 1966: Fantasía... 3
 * 1969: El escuadrón del pánico

title: Camilo Delgado


text:
Talk:Terry Leahy

Where does he live?
UMIST times says he lives in London. Maybe near his wife's work? Some one so rich could have several homes and possible commute by aircraft. If some one can find some evidence he has a house near Hereford etc perhaps we could say "has homes in x y and z"? Billlion 16:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Update as of April 2004 he lived in North London acording to BBC News. Billlion 17:03, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Irish?
To what extent is he Irish British? He was born in Liverpool. Please if you have evidence to the contrary please document here and add to the article. Billlion 10:34, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * the category is for British people of notable irish descent. Arniep 12:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Is that based on his name or do you know if he had an Irish grandparent? Billlion 09:39, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
 * "my mother was from farming stock in Northern Ireland." Dricherby (talk) 21:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

School
It seems he went to St Edwards College, an independent Catholic school but that does not imply his parents paid his fees. Indeed during the period he attended the school it was a Direct Grant school to quote

 * The College had always been a fee paying school, although for many pupils payments were kept low. After the end of the Second World War, the 1944 Education Act saw the College become a Direct Grant Grammar School, with fees paid by local authorities for most pupils

which remained its status until the late 1970s, by which time Leahy would have left. Billlion 10:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

A new Tesco Express store much to the opposition of local business owners and the majority of local residents. That sentence looks incomplete. Odd, considering it's from a cited source. Digifiend (talk) 08:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Terry Leahy


text:
User:Slac

Now that I am free...

Now that I am free.

--Slac 19:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Slac


text: User talk:169.200.204.36

title: User talk:169.200.204.36


text:
User:FleXable

Name: Francisco Pinto

Gender: M

Age: 23

Location: Porto, Portugal

Occupation: Engineer, Researcher

Interests: Music, physics, philosophy, martial arts, sports, etc.

title: User:FleXable


text:
Talk:Homeschooling/Archive 1

(archived 19 April 2005)

Reorganization on 11/10/04
I moved facts about home-schooling to the front, and moved the for and against sections to the rear, since they are not substantive, i.e. do not describe the substance of the subject at hand. Describing the subject is not advocacy.

I tried to move advocacy so that for and against are clearly labelled, and a summary of the critics' values is prepended to each section. Please add counter-arguments to the appropriate section, rather than immediately following an opposing argument.

The NPOV turn of phrase is "This person says X."

I've actually read the supreme court opinion, as well as summaries by uninvolved (i.e. not affiliated with the Home School Legal Defense Association) constitutional scholars. It's not a controversy, it's the law. So, I changed the text to reflect that, but I left it in advocacy because it necessarily reflects some degree of approval of the activity, even though the official approval is rather grudging, and almost unintentional.

Since the article is substantively organized, and advocacy is better-labelled, I removed the not NPOV warning.

The article probably needs a more careful reading for advocacy, and more editing to move (not REmove) advocacy and rephrase it in NPOV.

Article Snipped
Here is an edited version that 213.122.165.xxx reduced the original article to:

 * Home schooling (teaching children at home) also known as home eduation or elective home based learning.

 * The advantages usually cited by proponents include: individual attention, customized curricula, efficient use of children's time, a safer environment, freedom from harmful peers, religious instruction, privacy, parental control, and improved socialization to adult society among others.

 * In the U.S. in 1999, homeschoolers scored about 23% higher than publicly-schooled children on refereed nationally-normed tests. Most employers find home-schooled persons work with less need for supervision.  In 2001, public school grades are deprecated by many college-entrance procedures, and a GED taken at less than 18 years of age, combined with good scores on the SAT and ACT permit entrance to most colleges and apprenticeships.  The individualized instruction and customized curriculi may compensate for other disadvantages.

 * In the UK around 1% of school aged children are home educated. There are no controls on what is taught or how it is taught. Nor is there any right for the state to test a child. Though if a local authority requests it the parents should indicate in what way they are providing an education suitable to the child. De registration is by right not permission (except in scotalnd and northern Ireland)

 * Home Educators address the socialasation issues through local community organisations and their own dedicated Home education support structures.

 * Most homeschooling families make substantial economic sacrifices to educate their children at home. Because one parent refrains from working in order to give instruction often a second income is lost though if there are preschool children, homeschooling can be a better economic use of a parents' time than combining low-paying work with child-care and poor public schooling.

 * Education can proceed flexibly, at students' own paces, year-around, even with frequent traveling. Vacations and other family activities all become part of the families educational life. Education occures every waking hour.

 * for links to other organisations look at www.home-education.org.uk where you will find links to UK, US European and Australian Home Edcuation organisations.

213.122.165.xxx, you probably don't realize that it is considered extremely impolite on Wikipedia to delete large amounts of content without explanation on the /Talk page. We really need to make this policy clearer in a few different places. --LMS

Unit studies
Unit studies are not just found in home schools. I had to suffer through them in middle school. Perhaps it should just be given its own page. -- Eean

Move to Home Schooling (US)?
Given that this is almost entirely about the US, would a move to Home schooling in the US or similar be a good idea? jimfbleak 08:58 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * This isn't necessary. If the article starts including information on home schooling in other countries and becomes unweidly, we can split into seperate articles. The generally agreed upon correct Wiki approach is to leave it as is until a conflict arises. —Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Cleaned up External Links
I know this is going to ruffle a few feathers, but I deleted significant portions of text from the External Links section. There was a huge paragraph summarizing the first web site: information which can be found on the site itself. I trimmed all the entries to make them conform to Wikipedia guideline. The links are just that links—not propaganda sections for individual organizations. If you feel the need to discuss each links at length, do it in the article proper. Peace. :-) —Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * IMHO, as of current date, the links still need cleanup. 8 "Pro-homeschooling" links  plus 13 "Resources for Homeschoolers" links  minus 4 "History, legal, neutral" links (and after reading those links I question their neutrality) equals POV.  I'm gonna plead ignorance on this one and ask any education pros out there to take a stab at it.  Soundguy99 20:04, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * As you can see in the section below, I'm the one who reorganized them, and I definitely intended that as a first step to weeding most of them out. The External links policy isn't very clear, although it says there should be balance between different POVs. I can't find ANY sites which are specifically anti-homeschooling, however. —Wahoofive | Talk 21:16, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sections
Just a reminder, if you're going to start a new topic here, use a title (like this section does) so user's can contribute to just that discussion instead of having to edit the entire Talk page. —Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Removed Conspiracy
I removed the addition by 128.172.208.126 of:

 * Homeschooling was originally the primary form of education in the USA. Many of our former presidents such as Jefferson and Lincoln were self-educated or had tutors growing up. Public schools were not created by our government to further the education of Americans. Actually the literacy rate in this country has never been as high as it was before they were created. The reason they were created was the “Melting Pot’ theory; to insure that the immigrant children coming into the country were assimilated into the existing culture rather then corrupting it with their own traditions. Because the school system was created not to educate but to indoctrinate students many parents today find that they can better instruct their children at home.

It is highly POV and sounds like a conspiracy theory. It is not backed up by any references whatsoever. The facts about Jefforson and Lincoln are fairly benign, but the rest is speculative. Unless someone can back it up with facts (not more speculation), I vote to leave it out. Actually, I'll re-add the first two sentences, but the rest will need some facts to back it up. —Frecklefoot 15:30, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * My understanding is that there is evidence of an extremely high literacy rate before compulsory education. I agree the rest is conspiracy stuff, though, and needs to be left out or NPOV'd.  (Perhaps a separate article on conspiracy theories about the origin of public education in the U.S. would be in order?)  Unfortunately, the only reading I've done about the extremely high literacy rate is in the works of John Taylor Gatto, which are so replete with conspiratorial stuff as to be too suspect to prove the assertion.  (In other words, I'm not even fully persuaded myself and am looking for more evidence.) Jdavidb 17:07, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * The deleted paragraph is not "factual", hence its deletion. But it is an oft-expressed POV, so we might want to track down a home-schooling proponent and quote him on the matter. A lot of homeschooling, er, loudmouths, are Christians who feel that government-run schools in the US foist anti-Christian propaganda upon children. Perhaps we could write about WHY they feel that way. --Uncle Ed 15:38, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm up with that. It could be NPOV'ed and put in the "support" section, e.g. "Some homeschoolers beleive that public schools were not created by our government to further the education of Americans..." I'm not a big fan of this subject, so someone else may want to NPOV and re-add it. —Frecklefoot 15:59, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Um, not quite the POV I've read. But I like your use of Some homeschoolers believe that as a way of attributing the POV. If you don't have time to research this, then I'll add it to my lengthy to-do list... :-) --Uncle Ed 16:06, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

No more teachers, no more books

 * (no homework, detentions, bells, bullies, or potentially bossy teachers)

The Robinson Curriculum is premised on the idea that ALL schoolwork can be homework. That is, after the kids are mature enough to keep going without adult supervision, learning just becomes another chore for them to do on their own.

This article needs a lot of work.... --Uncle Ed 16:11, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Criticism of forms of homeschooling
I removed the following comment: "Like any industry, the home education world suffers its own fashions," leaving it here if anyone wants it back. IMO, this comment relegates unschooling to being a less-valuable "fashion" or "fad" that is currently taking the homeschooling world by storm by may fade away tomorrow to be replaced with the next best thing. That's not NPOV.

It would be better to clean up the article and make a section on different approaches to homeschooling, including arguments for and against. There's plenty of arguments for and against unschooling, as well as classical education, school-at-home, unit-study approaches, Montessori (why is there no link to Montessori in this article), and others I can't remember at the moment. Each method deserves its own section in this article.

In case someone from outside the homeschool mindset reads this, be aware that in addition to the friction between "the homeschooling community" and the rest of the world, there is also friction within "the homeschooling community" between proponents of different methods.

Jdavidb 17:08, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

How many?
I find it conspicuously lacking a figure of homeschoolers. How many homeschoolers are in the US (since it seems the only place with enough drive)? 0,1%, 1%, 10%? Even a wide margin would be better than nothing.

 * Yes, this would be nice to know. —Frecklefoot 17:30, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * According to the U.S. Statistical Abstract for 2002 (the one I have to hand), these are the official figures for school enrollment vs. homeschooled kids in 1999 (the latest year for which figures are given for both):

 * Kids in school (K-12): 52,876,000
 * Kids being homeschooled: 850,000

 * That's around 1.58% being homeschooled, yes? I expect more recent figures could be obtained from the website of the U.S. National Center for Education Statistics, but I haven't checked that. ---Michael K. Smith 21:38, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Having worked for a publisher with access to reams of education statistics, I can tell you that no one really knows. The estimates are all over the map.  It would be difficult to settle on a safe percentage.  The NCES is closely aligned with the public education community, so I would take their statistics with a grain of salt--Waterygrave 18:52, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * # This is a quote from a HSLDA page with a bunch of statistics http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200104230.asp "There are an estimated 1.7 million home school students in kindergarten through 12th grade during the 2000-2001 school year. This is about 3% of all K-12 students in the U.S. National Center for Home Education, Purcellville, VA: 2001." Darthmalt 05:40, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Age
Is there a increase or decrease of the percentage as grades increase? Why? Do parents feel that some ages are better suited for a certain kind of schooling than others? Or do they think that homeschooling works for every age? We only have a mention of pre-scholars.

 * I am not a homeschooler, but here is my opinion: there should be a decrease of homeschooling as ages increase. Why? Because subjects get more complex as children's ages increase and homeschooling parents find it hard to be an expert in all subjects.

 * This is an opinion not backed-up by any kind of data, but it seems logical to me. When I went to high school, my history class was taught by a man who had a master's degree in History. My math classes were taught by people who had degrees in Math. Likewise for my Drama, French, English, Science. P.E. and Art classes. How can one parent compete with that spectrum of specialized education? This is just one of my many criticisms of home schooling... —Frecklefoot 17:29, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Much appreciation for keeping your criticism here rather than expressing it on the main page. I get upset that people want to criticize homeschooling -- for me it seems people just have too much desire to control what other people are doing.  It all feels like busybodiness to me.  But I digress.  It is true that statistically homeschooling declines in the later grades, but it is also true that homeschoolers tend to be much more autonomous learners.  In general, a high school age homeschooler may be able to just sit down with a textbook and teach him or herself.  It's great preparation for college, too (my fiance was homeschooled and is currently in college; it blew her mind that so many people in college couldn't learn from a book).  So it's not as if the parent has to become an expert in every subject the student learns.  A family where each child is independently pursuing his or her own interests at a high school or higher level can be a very interesting family indeed.  (I spent Christmas break my junior year of high school teaching myself Physics from my textbook.  Pathetic, I know, but I was a geek. :)  Besides, it was fun.)  If the child does need an expert teacher, there are many options including early enrollment in a few college classes (our public schools in this district recommend that as an option for gifted and talented students) or hiring a personal tutor.  My fiance's family once pooled resources with several others to hire a science teacher, for example.  Homeschooling just means you're pulled out of the government compulsory education system; it doesn't mean you cut yourself off from all educational resources except your parents. Jdavidb 13:37, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Homeschooling, as such, does not eliminate access to expertise. Cooperative schools are sometimes established to spread around the talent in the community: nothing prevents some parents from being experts in an academic field, and some parents teach the children of others in the fields where they are strongest.  Choirs and orchestras, history seminars, math clubs, competitions, etc. all are ways of overcoming limitations.  College lectures can be monitored, correspondent relationships can be established with experts in a field.  Homeschooling does not necessarily involve withdrawal from resources - it can, in fact, provide greater freedom of access especially for teens who have an early and realistic idea of where they are headed.  It is not identical to parent-only education. It does not necessarily require that the parent knows as much as the child is expected to learn. Mkmcconn 17:45, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * (In reply to Frecklefoot) - I am a home educated 13 year old in the UK, and I find that it's no problem being home educated as I get older. My parents research in order to facilitate my learning. Both my parents and myself look on the Internet for more information (esp. Wikipedia :P), in the library. We ask people who know the answer to our queries. You see, home education is not necessarily restricted to the _home_, it's everywhere. Home education is not always about teaching, it's about a gathering of knowledge of all, for all to participate in. We're all learners, and learning is lifelong - for everyone involved. --Spe88 10:10, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I am a homeschooler (well, university graduate now, but...) and I'd say it's the opposite. Those who homeschool for religious reasons will not have their kids enter school at all, and those who homeschool because they feel they can do a better job than the public schools tend to take their kids out of school after a particularly bad year, and not put them back in.

 * As for access to experts, creative homeschoolers will have more access than people in public schools. For example, I entered university with two semesters' calculus credit from a community college.  If I'd wanted to learn Japanese, there was no shortage of people who spoke it as a first language to learn from.  Astronomy was taught by my dad, who was going to be an astrophysicist until he realized how small the job market was.  Physics and computer science were self-taught; history and literature came from reading every book I could get my hands on.  Geography came from vacations to every part of the country.  --Carnildo 21:57, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I moved this - can we say who predicted this, and when this is anticipated? I'm a littel uncomfortable otherwise. Mark Richards 20:00, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)  It is predicted that by the end of the Culture Wars, the better parts of unschooling will be synthesized into more traditional methodologies.

NPOV dispute
I've placed an NPOV header, as I don't feel that this article follows NPOV. Someone more knowledgeable than I needs to fix it. Best, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 19:11, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

From a homeschooler's point of view
The section titled "Homeschooling from a homeschooler's point of view" doesn't belong here, it's essentially an anonymous opinion. Rhobite 01:28, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree; I've deleted it. Rosemary Amey 16:14, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Too many extern links!
This article has more external links than I've ever seen in any other article. Do we really need a list of homeschooling sites for every friggin' state? How about every nation and every town too? Wikipedia is not a collection of just links. If someone really wants these links, let them make their own web site with them. I don't think this article should have so many of 'em. It should have information on homeschooling, thorough and NPOV. The links belong elsewhere on the web. Just MHO. Peace. :-)   — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:32, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * Emphatically agree. Jdavidb 20:08, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I have eliminated the entire homeschooling support groups section. I presume if the general consensus is against this, my change will be reverted.  I believe some of the other links should be pruned as well.
 * Far better than a link to every homeschooling organization in existence would be a section on homeschooling support groups describing their general features and services. A link to a list of these groups might be appropriate (but not a link to every list of these groups). Jdavidb 20:17, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks Jdavidb, I agree. Rosemary Amey 21:59, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Possible outline
This article does need a lot of work, so I've created a draft outline for what it might eventually look like. Please feel free to revise, improve, extend.

title: Talk:Homeschooling/Archive 1


text: User talk:63.170.236.196

title: User talk:63.170.236.196


text: User talk:210.23.171.221

title: User talk:210.23.171.221


text:
Talk:Donghak Peasant Revolution

Request for Japan to invade Korea for help a fabrication
Historically, Japan's invasion of Korea was justified by Japanese historians as a "request" from Korea. In much the same way that Hitler approached his invasions as "assistance". Without getting into the heated current arguments on Japanese historical revisionism in textbooks, or on the internet by apologists or glossers-over, suffice to say that this article will be both corrected and expanded using the latest historical research as many new documents have been released and much work that was played down as inconsequential is now seen as important. Citations will be made of accurate new research. There is anticipated to be great furor as this is done, and the editors of the wiki are advised of this in advance.
 * Good idea. Be careful on this point. The editors need not be led into controversy needlessly. POofYS Dated 013:12, 19 April 2005.

Untangling
A lot POV cruft in here, plus the merge issue. Any takers? -- Visviva 09:56, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I completely agree. Plus, a lot of the wording is done far too subjectively (words like mercilessly, cruel, oppressive, etc.). I went ahead and made changes to the wording. -- Johgc 22:25, 2 May 2007 (EST)

Change
Any change necessary?--Seonookim (talk) 01:29, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Another comment
this was posted by error inside the GA review(1) and got the following comment:
 * Just so you know, this is the closed review that you're posting in (which closed as "not listed"); I'm not sure that's what you meant to do. The current GA review is elsewhere on the page. Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:56, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Apologies. Pldx1 (talk) 16:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I have read this article. My comments can be seen at User:Pldx1/Donghak. Before discussing about some semi-colons, we should better discuss about the content. I think that it remains an important work to do concerning the geolocalisations and the references.
 * I am not sure that the standard reader of http://en.wikipedia.org has the slightest idea of the localisation of Busan or Incheon. Therefore, we should not suppose that they know where Gobu can be !
 * a map is required. May be user Dmthoth can help, we should ask him.
 * Technically, the references of the books should be improved (there are missing isbn, even missing authors !)
 * Quite all of the references are in Korean. This should be at least indicated clearly, and not masked by tentative traductions of the titles. For several books, the comments by the booksellers doesn't indicate academic books. If you want use 만화, you should present them as such... and indicate why we should trust such source.
 * I am surprised by the lack of references written in English (by Koreans or foreigners, this is not the question). For example, the page History of Korea indicates a large number of such books, that could surely be useful here.

The Donghak Peasant Revolution is one of the most important event in the history of Modern Korea. In 1894, facing a menace from their own people, the Joseon ruling classes (from the King to the provincial yangbans) were so prompt to place themselves under the protection and the direction of the Japanese armed forces. And after the massacre, they became so noisy about 'Independence club' or Yeongeunmun or what else. I hope this article will contribute to our duty of memory... and understanding. Pldx1 (talk) 23:33, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments from Piotrus
And this was also posted by error inside the GA review(1) Pldx1 (talk) 16:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey guys, I am becoming interested in Korean topics (as I moved here), so I am going to try to offer similar comments/support to those topics as I do at WP:POLAND. Thus, this pass by GA review comment. Sadly, I have to say this is far from GA class - I am quickfailing a B-class review due to insufficient inline citations. Please don't submit a GAN for an article where there are unreferenced paragraphs (i.e. a quickfail criteria). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Not by error, but I have no problem with this being moved here. That said, I'd like to see a reply. The article still has cite needed tags and as such is in no way in the form to pass a GAN in the current state. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:52, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

B-class failed
Whoever passed this as a B-class for milhist: no, the citations are not adequate, there are dozens of uncited paragraphs. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:13, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Bizarre citations
This article cites a bunch of authors & books (Donghak Peasant Revolution) with the name/title "미상" (misang). "Misang" means "unknown" or "unidentified" in Korean. These cannot possibly be valid citations. Citing an "unidentified" book is tantamount to admitting you don't know what book you're trying to cite and you've never seen it.

Some of these might be books that were cited in the Korean version of this article (e.g. "The Founding of Cheondoism" by "John Misang" might be 이돈화, 《천도교 창건사》 (천도교중앙종리원, 1950)). Others I'm not sure. 59.149.124.29 (talk) 14:37, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

In addition, I'm looking at citations by. Sure are these sources not from the year "9999", so care to explain what's going on here? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:20, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Dear User:Finnusertop. Pldx1 has never added any citations to this article. On August 2013, there have been some attempts to push this article to the GA status. In order to make my opinion about this article, I have reorganized the bibliography, moving everything at the bottom of the paper (and using Harvard refs to link the text to the biblio). Missing names were missing, missing years were missing. My review can be seen at User:Pldx1/Donghak. And now, five years later, we have the same problems than before. Good luck if you want to fix them ! It remains that this Donghak Revolution is a key event in the whole history of Korea. Pldx1 (talk) 18:14, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * , in the edit I linked to, you reorganized the bibliography to use harv refs, right? Did you use "9999" as a placeholder for years and "???" for pages? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:37, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Casualties of Korea and their soldiers
The lowest estimate for their forces is 3000, but the casualties are 6000? 2A02:1810:251F:EE00:7477:49EC:CD84:BECF (talk) 16:33, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

No picture?
Surprised that even in the Korean article there's no picture for the event in the infobox. Can anyone find or draw anything for it? toobigtokale (talk) 02:03, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Cleanup needed
Hi,

Imo the article is currently pretty hard to understand and needs a significant rewrite in order to be more useful to the average reader. I think the background section needs to be improved; needs more info about the wide geopolitical situation that led to this.

In addition, the details are presented confusingly. A lot of data is presented with extremely sparse context; names of people and places are thrown around with little context and indication of why they are important.

If someone's interested in working on this article, it may just be easier to scrap most of it and write it from scratch using a few good sources as reference. I've improved some stylistic things, but they're band-aids on a more fundamental problem of confusing writing. toobigtokale (talk) 04:12, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

 * @Koreanidentity10000 did a great job in fixing things up and adding more info.
 * I think some broad geopolitical context is still needed in the first part of the background section. It's missing the context of what was happening with foreign incursions (particularly Japan) and the monarchy, and their impact on the common people. toobigtokale (talk) 10:49, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Donghak Peasant Revolution