text:
Talk:Anatoly Chubais

Putin
BBC just stated that Chubais is the one who gave Putin his first job in the Yeltsin administration. This needs to be researched and introduced. Arminden (talk) 16:00, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * The Times has it too. It says Chubais gave Putin his first Kremlin job at the presidential property department and Chubais backed Putin’s candidacy first as prime minister and then as president, seeing in the steely-eyed former spy a man who would continue Yeltsin’s reforms, while guaranteeing his entourage immunity from prosecution in a string of swirling corruption cases. Solipsism 101 (talk) 17:34, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * According to Masha Gessen in The Man Without a Face: The Unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin, Chubais did play a significant role in Putin becoming prime minister (p21, "Chubais said [Putin] was an ideal candidate" - as a successor to Yeltsin), although Berezovsky is given the main credit, which is what Boris Berezovsky (businessman) also says. As for "first job in the Yeltsin administration", the closest that Gessen gets is on p16, "When Putin moved to Moscow in 1996 to take an administrative job at the Kremlin, ...", without saying who specifically "gave Putin the administrative job". Boud (talk) 19:31, 23 March 2022 (UTC) In other words, Gessen agrees (in this book) with The Times that Chubais played a significant role in Putin's rise to power, though he was not the only key person. Berezovsky mistakenly assumed, per Gessen, that "Putin, being apparently devoid of personality and personal interest, would be both malleable and disciplined". Boud (talk) 19:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Only indirectly connected:, hi, that was a slip, there was an "edit conflict" and I tried hard to save my edits WITHOUT harming other people's, but I must have missed this one. I most certainly find it a notable and relevant comment, thank you for putting it back in - sorry for the mistake. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 21:51, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

International "portrait" of Personality.
 * Each of the prominente.
 * Be it a multi-billionaire or a Sultan. The President of the country's government or King. Worthy. International Portrait. On the Internet pages. Eventuel, in the Wikipedia discussion. Features of character, mentality, behavior and / or manieremanagement. Noticeable, attention-grabbing features. Based on material from various media. In different languages of the world. Wikipedia article. Wide and comprehensive material.
 * So much! What can't be "face "?Armoenden (talk) 11:46, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed.
 * Much in common. With Vladimir Vladimirovich.
 * Knight ! Knight's order. Knight - without fear and reproach.
 * Assassination attempts?!
 * [|on 1st class Active State Councillor of the Russian Federation]
 * more similar with Fake "fear". Key word for understanding:
 * “I know...”

A certain acting talent is one of the prerequisites for this...P37307Nr.2 (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Not quite accurate
"During this period, he was a key figure in introducing a market economy and the principles of private ownership to Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union."

 * This sentence should be ".... key figure in re-introducing a market economy ...." because that existed before the Revolution. While land had belonged to the Tsar, what was on the land was private property before the Revolution. Today we have oligarchs, then it was the nobility who owned the businesses. There was private business (e.g. Mamontov) but the nobility did not really like that competition, which is why Witte did not succeed with attracting enough investment.
 * The situation in Tsarist Russia was very much like Dickensian circumstances in Britain, where polarisation and mass poverty ruled. State owned organisations were to deliver more transparency and equality but the investor groups did not like that and therefore privatisations have been championed everywhere. Whether your captains of industry are nobility, oligarchs, billionaire entrepreneurs or some employees of state-owned enterprises, there is a cycle where privatisations cause polarisations, change to state run seeks to address it and then one goes back to privatisations. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:C90D:14C3:6C12:9EFB (talk) 05:21, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Fine.
 * What about dates of birth? Among celebrities. It became possible. buy a new date of birth from Wikipedia.org
 * Good for sale. Year of "the Bull  ". Not a bad year. Money "Goat" (people born in the year of "the Goat" are lucky in finance), etc.91.183.159.198 (talk) 15:12, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Net worth
I'm trying to find Chubais's net worth for the article as evidence he is not an oligarch. Bloomberg has him listed as not an oligarch in this article and sources I have found, and not willing to use as citations, has his net worth ranging from US$5 million to US$25 million. Anyone have any luck? --P37307 (talk) 17:20, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Do you take it? To anyone. Suitable aphorism:
 * "чюдчик - чюбчик !
 * Кучерявый . Да.
 * Ты, не вейся на ветру.
 * Эх !
 * Карман ! Карман, ты , мой . Дырявый.
 * Да . Ты, не нравишься . Ненравишься  вору ."91.183.159.198 (talk) 15:02, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * si-si !
 * Many - many years ago.
 * Wikipedia – online encyclopedia. Presented to Mr. Chubais, - as a multi-billionaire. With a big letters - “M”.
 * Personal capital - more than $100,000,000,000. usd.P37307Nr.2 (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Anatoly Chubais


text:
When in Rome (2002 film)

When in Rome is a 2002 American adventure comedy film directed by Steve Purcell and starring Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen.

Plot
Twins Leila (Ashley) and Charli (Mary-Kate) Hunter go to Rome to participate in a Summer Intern Program along with four others: Paolo, Nobu, Dari, and Heidi. After beginning the intern program, the sisters are soon fired due to careless mishaps. They soon meet Derek Hammond, who re-hires them. They spend the day at Hammond’s house, where Leila meets bad boy Ryan, who happens to be Derek’s nephew. Leila and Ryan develop a liking for each other. Back at work, the girls are grasping more the concept of being responsible. They become great friends with the other interns. Charli and Paolo develop feelings for each other.

When attempting to deliver some designs for a shoot, Mr. Tortoni sabotages them by stealing the dresses. Leila, with Ryan’s help, captures pictures of the incident and delivers the pictures to Derek. Everyone helps to make new dresses, using Charlie’s designs, before the big day. Paolo phones his friend & ends up abducting everyone, especially Leila & Tortoni. In the end, the photoshoot goes well and Tortoni re-hires the interns. Derek arrives with the police to arrest Mr. Tortoni, and it is discovered that Tortoni was always jealous for having everything, the money, and the girl (Jamie).

The movie closes with Jamie and Derek and Charli and Paolo kissing at the Mamma Mia pizza party. Ryan tries to kiss Leila, but she tells him she’s good with just a hug. Derek decides to take all the interns to New York with him.

Cast

 * Mary-Kate Olsen - Charlotte "Charli" Hunter
 * Ashley Olsen - Leila Hunter
 * Michelangelo Tommaso - Paolo
 * Derek Lee Nixon - Ryan
 * Leslie Danon - Jamie
 * Julian Stone - Derek Hammond
 * Archie Kao - Nobu
 * Ilenia Lazzarin - Dari
 * Valentina Mattolini - Heidi
 * Matt Patresi - Mr. Enrico Tortoni

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: When in Rome (2002 film)


text:
Talk:Caesar (title)

Untitled
What exactly does this sentence in the article mean:

In fact, in more recent history the word imperator came to replace the original meaning of imperator in Latin.

Pronunciation
Is it pronounced /'kаɪ zax/ or /'se zax/? SaintCahier (talk) 22:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Hard C. So the former. No exceptions. The "s" pronunciation is a boorish one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.193.188.215 (talk) 02:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Possible error
I believe this part is incorrect:

"Finnish: Keisari & Keisaritar Icelandic: Keisari & Keisarinna"

I think it should be "keisari & keisarinna" in Finnish, not in Icelandic. Finnish is my native language, and keisarinna is the Finnish word. Allthough the suffix -tar indicates the female gender in Finnish (ie. tarjoilija = waiter, tarjoilijatar= waitress), I believe it is never used with the word keisari, and it should be keisarinna instead of keisaritar.

misleading statement
this line in the article

 * The Tetrarchy was quickly abandoned as a system, and the previous system of Emperors and Emperors-designate was restored, both in the Latin-speaking West (caesar) and the Greek-speaking East (kaisar)

wrongfully suggested that 'caesar' is the roman way and 'kaisar' the greek way of pronouncing 'Caesar', but in fact the romans also pronounced it 'kaisar' and 'caesar', 'si-zer' in non dictionary phonetic spelling, is the modern pronunciation produced by pronouncing a latin word with Saxon-based phonetic rules. In short: according to modern english rules 'Caesar' is pronounced 'si-ser', but the Romans pronounced it 'kai-zar'.

Furthermore the article states that 'imperator' replaced 'caesar' as the title given to Emperors, but this is not the case for all countries. A good number of countries from the list mention in the article have no other word for emperor than the word mentioned in that list, all of which are Caesar derived, rather than Imperator derived.

Transcription of "Caesar" equivalents in other languages
The transcriptions of Caesar, particularly from Cyrillic-written languages, is slightly misleading: There is no difference between bulgarian tsar and Croation car, as Croatian c is always pronounced ts and transcribed as ц in Cyrillic writing. Also, Czar and Tsar are merely two different ways of transcribing the Russian word in an English text. The Russian word itself has not changed. Also adding the Hungarian word to the list. Philippe Magnabosco 14:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

ae vs. æ
Is it spelled Caesar or Cæsar? If it's the first one, are there any cases/countries in which it would be appropriate to be spelled Cæsar? --daunrealist 03:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe it's supposed to be that way all the time.Cameron Nedland 21:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The ligature is essentially the same as 'ae', but it became popular with Vulgar Latin. The Romans didn't use the ligature so I would say the former over the latter.

 * [From the article, Ligature.] "Both classical and present practice is to write the letters separately, but the ligature was used in medieval and early modern writings..." The 'Æ' form appears (to me, at least) to be a later development.  I imagine Julius Caesar himself would have written 'CAESAR' instead of 'CÆSAR'.  Beetfarm Louie 16:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

 * One other thing I have seen mentioned (among other places, on another Wikipedia article about a specific emperor, I believe,) was that Æ was used in engravings to save carving space and carving time. But in writing, it would always be written AE.  Basically, it's a contraction.  Ehurtley 14:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

"The Purple"?
Okay, I came to this page with no real prior knowledge of the actual functioning of the Roman Empire. So I have no idea what it means to "assume the purple", or "don the purple"... It is not explained anywhere. I assume that "the purple" is a synonym for the Roman throne, but explaining it would be a good idea for us newbies, or leave this odd terminology out altogether, if a more commonly understandable phrase could be substituted. Ehurtley 14:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I think that, given the context of the article, it is entirely clear what "the purple" means. This is a nitpick.    The preceding unsigned comment was made by 198.107.240.10 on 22 February 2007

 * No, it's not a nitpick. I still have no idea what "The Purple" really is.  Again, I can assume what it is, but with no clarity.  The best I can find is a comment in the "Trivia" section of an article for an episode of the TV show Babylon 5!  Was the emperor's robe purple?  The throne?  What?  And what the heck is "accession to the senior purple"?  It also doesn't help that it's not capitalized anywhere.  That makes me REALLY wonder.  It's obviously not an official title.  Ehurtley 08:13, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Per this phrase search, from Claudius I on, emperors were distinguished by wearing purple togas. Saw your post on /. 75.18.200.11 12:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know if that is still up, but I agree. I don't know what the 'purple' is, and the toga concept only makes a minimal amount of sense. 76.22.13.163 23:27, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Polish translation
I'm not a historian but as far as I know we would rather say "cezar" instead of "cesarz" referring to all the emperors of Ancient Rome. We would naturally mean "cesarz" too but "cesarz" is rather used as a title for German Emperors sometimes "Tsars" (though in this case we would probably stick to "Car" )

Pronunciation
Is it worthy to note that probably the most correct Latin pronunciation, and by extension English pronunciation of Caesar, is Kaiser, the German pronunciation?86.156.52.67 (talk) 21:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

 * The most correct Latin spelling is Caepar or Cae Par. Cae Par literally means "part of the heavens" as in divine. The Latin word Capra (goat/she-goat) is probably related as is the English word Cape as in cloak/veil/robe and also the caper genre of crime stories. Speaking of capes/robes, I dunno if it's related at all to the above question about purple, but "Purple robe" is mentioned in Mark 15:17. Only the Byzantine "Roman" Emperors wore purple togas.

 * The "p" degenerated into an "s" over time. Perhaps there is a phonetic similarity to "Pharoh" because of the meaning of Pharoh eluding to divine (from above/from the heavens). The Par means "part" but perhaps something got lost in left-to-right and right-to-left translations. That would give us other phonetically similar words like Pharisees, Parisii, Persia, and Pars. Though the meanings differ, their origin could be similar. Phonetic similarities are always worth exploring, often they are not coincidence and only inside-the-box perceptions dismiss the idea without research.

 * Pars in particular (the 'of the heavens part') is used by cartographers on ancient maps, usually around modern-day Iran but also in areas of Asia and in some cases (oddly) the Americas. In fact, Mercator labeled Northern Canada "Ameri Cae Par" which in Latin literally translates as "part of the heavens they came from Ameria." The odds are pretty slim that consensus is right about the Americas named after explorer Amerigo Vespucci. Scholars debate it to this day, but it still winds up in the history books for public schools without mentioning alternatives. Ameria/Amelia is an old city in Italy for example. Since much of this is original research, it can't be added to the article. But if you aren't held back by perceptions it's common sense, you don't need a scholar to tell you otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.223.95 (talk) 22:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire
When did the Ottoman Empire lose the title caesar? Please explain.Ti2008 (talk) 13:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Etymology
The article on Julius Caesar has a source on the etymology of the name, being its nickname for the caesarian section, which came before Julius, contrary to the myth. -Inowen (talk) 06:54, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Is there no Indo-European relation between the name Caesar and the Indo-Iranian XšaΘra? Shadzad (talk) 02:49, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Merge proposal: Byzantine title
Should Caesar (Byzantine title) be merged into this page? This page includes a number of different usages of the title, not all just from the imperial Roman period. Neither page is all that long. –Iveagh Gardens (talk) 16:41, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Arabic Qasr: not related
The article claims that "Qas'r (palace)" is derived from Caesar. Qasr is usually considered to be derived from the Latin word for castle, not from Caesar! Wiki article Qasr also indicates "castrum" as origin. I cannot read or speak Arabic, maybe there are two similar words spelled in slightly different ways and we should just remove "(palace)"; or maybe there are two different theories about the etymology of qasr, and that needs to be elaborated in the respective article. Also, "Qas'r" with apostrophe looks like a weird (or wrong?) transliteration to me. Arminden (talk) 06:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes,like you mentioned the transliteration of the Arabic word [قَصْر] that means castle is [qaṣr] not [qas'r] that will be [قَصْأْر] or [قَصْعْر] in Arabic, and that will be wrong like you suspected. Heebar (talk) 11:28, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Se Sarium Dictatorus
A hint to the etymology of Caesar as a title lies in Latin. In conjunction with Sarium, Se forms Se Sarium, a brief title when further simplified in Latin, from

Se Sarium --> to C-ae-sar

C, in this titular context, represents Roman Latin's of the time's plosive introductory character in titles.

Æ represents a dipthrong of vocal excitation, leading to, sar.

Sar is a shortened abbreviation in this title for Sarium, in general, in vernacular English meaning "is necessary"

The implied [MAN] Is Necessary, in Vernacular English, unpacked, is what Caesar in conjunction with Gaius Julius Caesar means. Fitting, for a dictator.

The title of Caesar, is Gaius's personal attempt in his self Cognomina ex virtute, to label himself as necessary as a leader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.20.225.225 (talk) 11:20, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Constantius II
From the article Constantius II: "Constantius was a son of Constantine the Great, who elevated him to the imperial rank of Caesar on 8 November 324". Which date is correct: 1 March 317 or 8 November 324? - Eroica (talk) 13:17, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

 * 324. Constantius was only born in August 317. The March 1 refers to his older brother Constantine II. 2001:569:7EBB:7D00:DC0F:48E:9FD2:E0A0 (talk) 15:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Origin
So where does the word Caesar come from? No explanation is given in the origin section. 92.19.60.133 (talk) 21:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Caesar (title)


text:
Mousetrap car

A mousetrap car is a small vehicle whose only source of motive power is a mousetrap. Variations include the use of multiple traps, or very big rat traps, for added power.

Mousetrap cars are often used in physics or other physical science classes to help students build problem-solving skills, develop spatial awareness, learn to budget time, and practice cooperative behavior.

Design
The general style for a mousetrap car varies. A number of commercial vendors offer plans, kits and complete cars for sale. In addition to mousetrap cars, contests have been created for mousetrap boats. and mousetrap airplanes.

Spring power
A mousetrap is powered by a helical torsion spring. Torsion springs obey an angular form of Hooke's law:

 * $$ \tau = -\kappa\theta\,$$

where $$\tau\,$$ is the torque exerted by the spring in newton-meters, and $$\theta\,$$ is the angle of twist from its equilibrium position in radians. $$\kappa\,$$ is a constant with units of newton-meters / radian, variously called the spring's torsion coefficient, torsion elastic modulus, or just spring constant, equal to the torque required to twist the spring through an angle of 1 radian. It is analogous to the spring constant of a linear spring.

The energy of U, in joules, stored in a torsion spring is:
 * $$ U = \frac{1}{2}\kappa\theta^2$$

When a mousetrap is assembled, the spring is initially twisted beyond its equilibrium position so that it applies significant torque to the bar when the trap is closed.

Power transmission to axle
This motion must be used to turn the car's axle or wheels. The most common solution is to attach a string to the mouse trap's arm and then wrap it around an axle. As the bar is released, it pulls on the string, causing the axle (and wheels) to turn.

Tying the string directly to the mousetrap's bar, however, will not make good use of the energy stored in the spring. The distance between the opened and closed positions of the bar of a mousetrap is typically 10 cm, so this is how much string would be pulled. Wrapped around even a small diameter axle, this amount of string will not create enough revolutions to move the car as far as it might go.

To get around this problem, most mousetrap cars add a lever to the bar so that the lever will pull a much greater length of string and cause the axle to turn many more revolutions.

Friction of wheels
Another reason to add a lever to the mousetrap bar is to reduce the amount of torque applied to the wheels. If too much torque is applied to the wheels, the force between the wheels and the ground will exceed the maximum frictional force due to the coefficient of friction between the wheel and ground surfaces. When this happens, the wheels slip and energy stored in the spring is wasted. Using a long lever on the mousetrap bar reduces the tension in the string due to the spring's torque, and thus reduces the torque applied to the car's wheels.

In addition to reducing the torque applied to the wheels, the coefficient of friction may be improved by using higher friction materials.

Distance car
Making this type of car revolves around having the most force from the spring transferred to the lever arm and making the drive axle rotate. In order to get the most distance out of your car, you must make the lever arm long. This allows the car to get more rotation out of the wheels because of the longer string that will come along with a longer lever arm. Then make the drive wheels larger because the higher the diameter of the wheel the more ground it covers. Along with this make sure to have the axles smaller than the wheel so there can be more pulling distance. Reduce the most friction you can because the more friction the more energy is lost in propelling the car. Mass should also be taken into account, the more the car weighs the more energy from the mousetrap spring will be used so it'll be best to make the car light weight.

Speed car
Making a speed mouse trap car involves extracting the most energy you can from the mousetrap spring in a short distance. The lever arm needs to be shorter than the distance car's because the shorter the arm is, the quicker the spring will snap, and thus more torque gets extracted from the spring. Most of the car's weight is distributed to the back, where the drive axle is located. Built this way, the car will not have much drag in the front, slowing it down. The wheels don't need to be too large but the axle should be larger in relation to the wheel. The wheels need good traction because without the right amount of friction the wheels attached to the drive axle will slip and not push the car forwards because of all the added torque.

title: Mousetrap car


text:
Linkage isomerism

In chemistry, linkage isomerism or ambidentate isomerism is a form of isomerism in which certain coordination compounds have the same composition but differ in their metal atom's connectivity to a ligand.

Typical ligands that give rise to linkage isomers are:
 * cyanide, CN- – isocyanide, NC-
 * cyanate, OCN- – isocyanate, NCO-
 * thiocyanate, SCN- – isothiocyanate, NCS-
 * selenocyanate, SeCN- – isoselenocyanate, NCSe-
 * nitrite, NO2-
 * sulfite, SO3(2-)

Examples of linkage isomers are violet-colored [(NH3)5Co\-SCN](2+) and orange-colored [(NH3)5Co\-NCS](2+). The isomerization of the S-bonded isomer to the N-bonded isomer occurs intramolecularly.

The complex cis-dichlorotetrakis(dimethylsulfoxide)ruthenium(II) (RuCl2(dmso)4) exhibits linkage isomerism of dimethyl sulfoxide ligands due to S- vs. O-bonding. Trans-dichlorotetrakis(dimethylsulfoxide)ruthenium(II) does not exhibit linkage isomers.

History
Linkage isomerism was first noted for nitropentaamminecobalt(III) chloride, [Co(NH3)5(NO2)](2+). This cationic cobalt complex can be isolated as either of two linkage isomers. In the yellow-coloured isomer, the nitro ligand is bound through nitrogen. In the red linkage isomer, the nitrito is bound through one oxygen atom. The O-bonded isomer is often written as [Co(NH3)5(ONO)](2+). Although the existence of the isomers had been known since the late 1800s, only in 1907 was the difference explained. It was later shown that the red isomer converted to the yellow isomer upon UV-irradiation. In this particular example, the formation of the nitro isomer (Co\-NO2) from the nitrito isomer (Co\-ONO) occurs by an intramolecular rearrangement.

title: Linkage isomerism


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mia Spy

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. Postdlf 00:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Mia Spy and Mia Starr
A "little known, and fairly new" comic and its star. Nn. RickK 23:53, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Note: There's an entry for them in List of secret agents. Should be removed as well in case of deletion. Rl 19:13, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I've been meaning to bring this here myself for a couple days, Google'd this in all sorts of combinations and the only results I got were for a porn star. Rx StrangeLove 01:08, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment I can't find any evidence that either are real, certainly through no lack of trying though. Does anyone have any knowledge to the contrary? Rx StrangeLove 13:53, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * If no notability can be shown, then delete. If any evidence of notability is found, merge at Mia Spy Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 10:41, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as above. Grue 19:00, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mia Spy


text:
Talk:Abandon (album)

<^>v!!This album is connected!!v<^>

 * All song titles serve as redirects to this album, have their own pages, or have had disambig links placed at the appropriate article or disambiguation page.--Hraefen Talk 22:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Abandon (album)


text: User talk:81.56.190.128

title: User talk:81.56.190.128


text: Talk:Fireball (album)

title: Talk:Fireball (album)


text:
Talk:Panelák

Shouldn't it be renamed?
Shouldn't it be renamed? Panelak is word in foreign language that likely has no associations in English. Pavel Vozenilek 23:55, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I do not think so. I have heard English people using it. Juro 22:36, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I have heard English people talking Czech, does that mean that we can write Czech on English wikipedia? --Josef Sábl cz 10:46, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm. Anyway a photo would be the best. Do you have some? Pavel Vozenilek 22:54, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Of course not :), but in the German de:Petrzalka article, there is a picture of Petrzalka, maybe we could use it...Juro 23:26, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This article surely is double for Tower block. I would suggest to merge it... And I don't think that this word (panelák) settled in english enough to be considered an english word. I would recommend renaming it to: Tower block so we get back to problem of merging... --Josef Sábl cz 10:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Pánelaky and tower blocks are not the same thing. "Pánelak" refers specifically to apartment buildings made of prefabricated concrete in the former Czechoslovakia. A modern high-rise apartment building in Chicago would not be a pánelak, nor would a similar building in Prague. As far as the name goes, everybody in the English-speaking expat community in Prague calls them pánelaky. Of course, most English speakers outside of Central Europe don't know the word, but that's why we've put it into the encyclopedia. Mwalcoff 18:33, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Please, take a look at this page. It is not an article about buildings in Chicago it is an article about "Panelák". An equivalent of word Panelák is Tower Block in english, just face it. You don't mean that there need to be separate article for each architecture type of tower block, I hope cuz it is ridiculous:-) Předpokládám, že umíš česky, když mluvíš o panelákách ;-), je to to samé, jako kdybys vedle artiklu "Music" založil artikl "Hudba" protože česká hudba je jiná než zahraniční... Promiň, ale kdyby se takhle choval každej, vznikne tady pěknej bordel. Když už, udělej na stránce Tower block kapitolu Czech "Panelak" a vysvětli důvod, proč jsou české tower bloky jiné než v jiných zemích (Jestli tedy vidíš rozdíl, já ne ;-) --Josef Sábl cz 20:20, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * According to the "Tower block" article, a tower block is "a high-rise apartment building." That says nothing about prefabrication, which is the essence of a panelak. The Lake Point Tower is a "tower block" but certainly no panelak. Mwalcoff 10:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, in Tower block article in See also section there is link to prefabrication and there is picture of prefab (panelak)... but OK, maybe that just that article is wrong and you are right... than I vote for changing name of this article to Prefab as it is english equivalent for Panelak... also picture of Panelaks of Petrzalka is not good as there is no visible panelak at all :) maybe some picture from Most article can be used or I can make some pictures with my camera as I live in prefab ;) --Josef Sábl cz 10:58, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The tower block article has a link to prefabrication in the "See also" section. That's because some tower blocks are prefabricated. If their article is confusing to you, perhaps the tower block article writers need to make it clearer.

 * I would recommend against adopting the name "prefab" for this article. All of us English-speaking expats in the CR call those buildings "panelaks" or "panelaky." I've never heard someone refer to "a prefab." The only English-language equivalent of "panelak" would be something awkward like "prefabricated apartment buildings in the former Czechoslovakia."

 * Finally, if people object to the Petrzalka photo, I've got a shot of panelaky in Kamyk we could use, although I personally find the Petrzalka picture OK.

 * Well OK, I've searched internet and pages concerning panelaks and found no pages about prefabs.

 * Perzalka photo looks nice but prefabs can be seen only in the distance. --Josef Sábl cz 15:57, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I put the Petrzalka photo here because and only because it was available immediatelly. Other photo (of Petrzalka) exists on German Wiki but I didn't like it and was too lazy anyway. Please feel completely free to insert better picture(s). Pavel Vozenilek 18:46, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, it is good that this picture is there. The more there are the better :-) I just suggested to add another picture with more detailed view of building.

 * Thanks for your interest in the article. Mwalcoff 19:45, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * In my opinion use of these buildings in Czechoslovakia is so important that it deserves article of its own. Also puting countries specific informations into one page makes such page (a) unmaintainable, (b) unreadable. Pavel Vozenilek 20:33, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree. In addition, panelák should be conceived as a prefab tower block in (former) Czechoslovakia, that's a slight shift in meaning. Juro 00:08, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * No fajn, jestli je tak zvlast dulezity pouziti panelaku v Cechach, at se ten clanek jmenuje "Pouziti panelaku v Cechach" nebo "Era stavby panelaku v Cechach". Kazdopadne ten clanek jak je takhle, je hrozna hovadina. Minimalne v tom, ze Panelak je i v cestine nespisovny slovo, melo by to bejt Panelovy dum. Ale OK, je vas vic, tak budiz po Vasem ;-) --Josef Sábl cz 10:28, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Anyway article surely should be renamed to something in English, what if some russia commrade would like to rename it to something in azbuka... he has same right to do it as you have to name it "Panelák", we work on English version of wikipedia so it should be in English... Navíc, když do česko anglickýho slovníku zadáte slovo Panelák, vyleze vám Prefab --Josef Sábl cz 10:45, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I know a lot of English people who use the term "panelak" as a specific term. Juro 19:29, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * IMHO (or not that humble -- being a native Czech living for couple of years in USA, I have some experience), the proper translation of panelák into English is "project", which actually has its own Wikipedia article -- project. This picture [[Image:Cwmbran tower block.jpg|thumb|A local authority [[tower block]] in Cwmbrân, South Wales]] looks to me really like a Czech panelák. Moreover, it is really non-sense to make this into separate article, because there is nothing that specific in Czech paneláks (not only that they were all over the former Soviet block, but French, American, or any other projects are not that different -- as building). The only specific (correctly mentioned in the article) is that in former Communist countries projects were not only for poor, and there is no stigma attached on living there. So, I would suggest to rename this article into "Projects in the former Czechoslovakia" (translated "Panelový dům" -- panelák is really colloquial).

 * The projects as a derisive, slangy term for public housing is exclusively American English. They don't call them that in the UK, although young people might have picked up the term from TV. In addition, most Americans would only refer to "ghetto" public housing as "the projects;" the newer, mixed-income publicly subsidized homes wouldn't get the moniker.
 * I wouldn't say public housing is the same all over the world. They did build some buildings similar to panelaks in the U.S., but they aren't the same thing, and the story behind them is certainly very different from the story of panelaky. However, the panel apartment buildings of the former Czechoslovakia are probably little different from those built elsewhere in the Soviet Bloc.
 * I'm all for expanding this article and renaming it Public housing of the Soviet Bloc or something, but I'm only familiar with the former Czechoslovakia. -- Mwalcoff 04:42, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Plattenbau is the DDR equivalent of Panelák and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it in this discussion. Given that this is the English Wikipedia, I would suggest combining Plattenbau and Panelák into a new article by the name of 'Panel house' (created 2006-01-13 by Darwinek), and redirecting Panelák, Plattenbau, Panelka, Panelház and other country-specific forms to the main article. After all, there isn't that much difference between Panel houses of different countries. I'm from Hungary myself, where the landscape is dotted by the same types of buildings. —UED77 07:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, there is apparently an article at Commieblock as well. These pages really need to be merged. —UED77 07:53, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes. IMO there should be general overview article and leaf articles on individual countries, where applicable.

 * Strong oppose regarding the proposed merger. There are many country-specific pieces of information related to prefabricated tower blocks, such as the ones already included on the Czech version of the page. I suggest to remove the merge template JanSuchy 19:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Paradox
I wanted to adopt an idea that these buildings should be called Panelaks, than I came across this paradox:

 * 1) Panelaks had not been built only in Czechoslovakia but in all socialistic states during era of communism: Russia, Poland, Germany, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia.

 * 2) If we want to preserve term panelak we should describe it as Czechoslovakian type of some kind of building that was build in other countries as well (I suggest term prefab for now) and there should be an article desrcibing this "regular" prefab.

 * 3) But!!! an idea of prefab comes from prefabrication and prefabs all across Europe (especially in post-communistic countries) are completely identical because they are made after one Russian design.

 * 4) So now we have two articles panelak and prefab. But like I said, they are identical and both articles are identical as well. Is there any sense making such nonsense:-)

I'm asking you:

Q Is panelak article about a) Czechoslovakian panelaks or b) Europewide prefabs

 * a) Please read paradox thing again and remove pictures of Russian prefabs from article.
 * b) Alright, lets rename the article.

I see two solutions.

 * a) We will create separate article about prefabs in global scape, that would describe architecture. Than we can keep information about Czechoslovakian panelaks and info about their background, history and why they deserve to be in separate article;-)

 * b) We will keep only one article but we will remove information about Czech and Slovak republic and create one section about use of panelaks in Czechoslovakia. Than this article needs to be renamed. I doubt that people in russia call their homes Panelak.

Both solutions require renaming main article and it is just what I am fighting for. But I like solution b) better.

--Josef Sábl cz 19:08, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The article contains some specific information for Czechoslovakia (though possibly shared by Poland, Hungary etc). After someone creates article on Bulgarian panelaks then its time to coordinate/change the structure, IMHO. About your solution (b): it may be quite hard to maintain such article and it takes a lot of time to review updates.

 * Perhaps one solution would be to create category "Tower Block like structures" or so (as subcategory), have one general article and then country/building type/ etc specific ones. Pavel Vozenilek 20:25, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I think we should keep the panelak article (why not?), even if we create a new article on panelak-like apartment buildings in general. Perhaps someone can start an article on "Apartment buildings of the Soviet Bloc" or something. Mwalcoff 08:34, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My opinion, how should this article look
I have changed this article a little. Please feel free to change things or even roll back changes. It is just my idea.

Removed italics
I think that italics should be used only in case when we are talking about word panelák not the panelák building. It is regular word as any other, there is no need to write it in italics.

example: Word panelak comes from word panel. Panel is matter that panelaks are built of.

Revert
I have reverted all of the edits by Mr. Sabl while including his note about the equivalent of panelaks in other countries. Mr. Sabl's edits, while showing a healthy interest in the article, were not in great English and made the article somewhat confusing. I also removed the Russian picture, since the article refers specifically to buildings in the former Czechoslovakia. Finally, I agree with Mr. Sabl that the word "panelak" should not be in italics all the way through -- that would go against the assertion that "panelak" should be the English term. So I de-italicized it throughout, except where it falls under the "words as words" rule.

I've also cleaned up the lead paragraph a bit in a way I hope clarifies exactly what the article is supposed to be referring to. I think part of the confusion came from the probably erroneous information that "panelak" in English is "prefab." If that were true, the article should have been called "prefab." But "prefab" is not the equivalent of "panelak" -- it is just short for the adjective "prefabricated." There is no such thing as "a prefab" as far as I know. Mwalcoff 20:15, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK, we have a quite interesting article now. Thanks. Juro 00:53, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Satelite dishes
Alhought the sentence with "protruding satellite dishes" sounds great, the implication is problematic. Satelite dishes were popular in early 90s. Now, "normal people" in cities have cable tv. People may have satellite to save $10-20/month :-) --Wikimol 23:17, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * That's interesting, because in America, DTH satellite dishes are considered superior to cable TV. You can get something like 300 channels with a satellite dish, compared to about 60 with standard cable. That's why I thought the satellite dishes indicated wealth. Mwalcoff 15:27, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Before 1989 dishes were the means to see Western TVs (the dishes and electronics were often hand made) and in early 90's cables didn't exist. Today dish + equipment could be bought for few thousands of CZK (few hundredths $). Several dozens of free channels + paid ones are available, in several languages but not in Czech. I do not know whether they even have subtitles in Czech. Pavel Vozenilek 17:10, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The difference may be in this: in America big part of the 300 channels is in English language. The same holds in Czechia ;-) If you compare the number of Czech language channels cable tv is superior to satellite.
 * The highest concentration of satellite antennas I have ever seen was in some village in Ruthenia - definitely not very wealthy region of Europe. The reason was exceptionaly bad reception of terrestrial tv. --Wikimol17:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

same builidings in other countries
Exactly same buildings were built in other european communist countries. I see no difference between Paneláks and Bloks in Poland. They are just as common here. Article needs to be renamed and cover similar buildings in Central and East Europe. exe 01:17, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

in Gdańsk: in Kraków: in Tarnów:

 * The article was originall smaller and focused on Czechoslovakia. Over time people added more and more of general stuff. The general stuff should be moved into overview article. Pavel Vozenilek 21:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I think exe is right to some extent. Perhaps we should have an article on Apartment buildings of the Soviet Bloc or something. -- Mwalcoff 22:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I left this discussion some time ago, giving up my tendency of persuading you to change this articles caption and I am pretty happy something has changed. YES YES YES Merge this article pleaaaase. It is absolutely stupid idea to pick one Czech word and start explaining why is this object different in Czech Republic than in other countries. It is not anyway. You can write article about "Auto", we don't call it "Automobile" in Czech Republic, explain the difference between Skoda and Mercedes, and pretend that Skoda is actually something absolutely different. These tower blocks, or as you call it "panelks" are build all over Europe and I doubt they call them panelak in France. --Josef Sábl cz 08:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe the phenomenon od Panelaks has two important sides I think the social aspect is at least as important as the physical. On this bsse I would be against merge with articles about prefab buildings all round Europe on the base of physica characteristic. I would be for merge of all CEE (former Soviet satellite) articles. I'm quite sure in PL,CZ,SK, HU its all the same including social aspects. I'm not so sure about former core USSR countries such as Russia. Often "the Soviets were the example" thus many thing there were taken to the "next step", copmaared to satellites. --Wikimol 00:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) the physical aspect, prefabrication, construction practice,..
 * 2) the social aspect, urbanism, social developement

"Soviet" inventions
Sorry, panelak is not "Soviet" invention. I am living in Wien-Leopoldau in the same "panelak". Huge parts of Paris are formed by "panelaks". Do you want to say Paris or Vienna are Soviet cities?

Idea of "panelak" was invented by French architects after II World War.

 * I agree with all those who expressed concerns about this article. It really makes no sense to create a new page for each name use by all local languages to indicate "panel houses". A panel house is a panel house. Full stop. You can see very similar one (sometimes the same) all around the globe, since in the 2nd half of the XX cent it was a vey widespread way of building. I live in one of those buildings in Bologna, and it's also not "soviet" city (although very leftist, lol). The only differece is that, while in formet soviet or socialist countries it had no low-class attached meaning, in other places it had. But I really don't think this is a good motivation enough to start a separate article.
 * In addition, "Panel house" redirects to this page, with a Czech name. Why should wikipedia, under "panel house" refer only to its Czech application?
 * I think it should all be in a common article about panel buildings, with a subdivision by countries explaining differences and similarities (if there are).--Desyman44 (talk) 11:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Panelák, what a cool English term
Man, this article is still called "Panelák"? I check once in a while and it feels more creepy every time I visit. When will "počítač" article emerge, describing the typical Czech computer with the most common feature of stolen software installed. You are crazy, people, crazy :-) --Josef Sábl cz 22:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * English-speaking people in the Czech Republic call them "panelaks." There is no English-language equivalent, just like there is no equivalent to sudoku, filet mignon or piñata. -- Mwalcoff 00:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Panel building. There is. They use it or as a joke or because it's shorter (in some cases they just don't know the term)--Desyman44 (talk) 21:00, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, that article demonstrates that the term could be literally translated as "panel building" but doesn't demonstrate that it actually IS used, (certainly not more commonly than panelak) by actual english speakers. Moreover, if you look at the only citation on that article, it seems to show brick buildings that look nothing like panelaks. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 21:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Merging and something else
Comes a bit late, but here is the problem: a specific word on a specific language is used for something, that has many different names in many different countries, but in all of those countries its quite the same thing - and in english it's called a panel block. Every article considering this type of building should be merged into one with the name I just pointed out. I haven't heard anybody use the word "Panelak" in english. A new article should be formed, including the information about these buildings from all over the (former) communist world PLUS the Swedish and American projects.

And one more thing - the low-quality and low design of the buildings (an allegation for every product from the former Eastern bloc) is a complete myth. Simply the now-defunct State Standarts didn't allow for the builders to use low-grade materials or not to do their job properly, as they would be severely sanctioned - and back then sanctions of any kind were not pleasant at all. - Tourbillon A ? 21:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you find some references that use the term "panel blocks" for buildings the United States? Thanks. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 22:55, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I have heard "panel block" and "prefabricated panel building" to be used often enough in english, but here are some english-language references  . - [[Image:Biohazard orange.svg|17px]] Tourbillon A ? 10:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I mean from a non-industry source... like a newspaper... and preferably talking about something that looks like the panelak featured in this article, not single-family dwellings, and ideally, not from a Czech website translated into English. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

 * "...pre-fabricated panel buildings that sprang up around the Soviet Union",, title of a journal at SpringerLink Housing conditions and self-reported health status: A study in panel block buildings in three cities of Eastern Europe, the best I could find at an immediate search. - [[Image:Biohazard orange.svg|17px]] Tourbillon A ? 15:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * These both refer to socialist-bloc buildings, while my request was for usage of the term describing large panelak-style buildings in the united states. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 20:57, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Apparently I misread, I thought you wanted sources for the usage of the term only for the Socialist bloc, so sorry for the time waste. Anyway the point is that it's useless for all this information to remain separated in several very similar to each other articles. I suggest this article, Panel building, Plattenbau, Ugsarmal bair and Khrushchyovka to be merged in a single article (either Panel block or Prefabricated panel building), containing additional information about Million Programme and Pruitt-Igoe. - [[Image:Biohazard orange.svg|17px]] Tourbillon A ? 10:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not that I disagree that they could probably be merged, but I'm not sure they should be. First, I'm unconvinced that Panel building or Panel block are appropriate terms. I think they are neologisms and generally not used in English. Rather, I think people tend to use the local terms depending on what country they are talking about. Bear in mind that Krushchyovka is referring to something rather more specific than this article or Panel building. Secondly, while there is some repetition in these articles, there is a fair bit of country specific information in most of them that doesn't need to be dumped. While creating a main article to tie everything together might not be a bad idea, I don't necessarily think that means these other articles should cease to exist. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 02:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Well that might be a good idea, but considering the fact most of the information on these pages is very similar, a new article seems a rather logical and easier way to present all the common information. It wouldn't be a problem having "main article" links in the new page where all the country-specific info will be preserved (and possibly, reworked). Well, Google at least gives a reasonable result 201 000 for prefabricated building, apartment building and so on...In case a proper name can't be found, the article may be called Prefabricated panel constructions in the former Socialist bloc or something like it. - [[Image:Biohazard orange.svg|17px]] Tourbillon A ? 15:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I remain unconvinced. Prefabricated building can mean a lot of different things, most of which don't need to be placed together. Does former Socialist Bloc include Yugoslavia? TheMightyQuill (talk) 02:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

That is why "...in the former Socialist bloc" will make it clear what sort of prefabricated buildings are these. Yes, it does include Yugoslavia, and if applied more broadly can include Mongolia, Cuba and Vietnam (as members of the COMECON, although I have no information if panel buildings have been constructed in the latter two). - Tourbillon A ? 10:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I still think it's a neologism that isn't used by almost anyone. If you want to create it, I won't stop you, but I still oppose merging at this point. I think there is plenty of information in these articles to make them worthwhile on their own. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Well at this point we can wait for more opinions...- [[Image:Biohazard orange.svg|17px]] Tourbillon A ? 09:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I think Themightyquill has a bit "localist" view. Panel high- (or medium-) rise buildings exist all over the world, not only in the former soviet block (i personally live in one!). What do those have so different from those in the rest of the world? If there are some differences, let's explain them in specific sections of a single article (es. panel building), but to have an article in any language is just ridicolous and result of "linguistic localisms".--Desyman44 (talk) 02:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll admit to a localist view, but I'd argue you both have an overly technical view. Panelaks and other similar buildings constructed under socialism are not simply a method of construction, like Stonemasonry. They are significant cultural elements, representative of socialist production, socialist planning, and ongoing legacies of these. When Václav Havel called them "undignified rabbit pens, slated for liquidation," he's not talking about a method of construction. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 14:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I have no intention of moving the article. In my edits, I'm just not writing as though panelák is an English word, in order to reduce astonishment of English readers, as well as do the right thing by screen readers, text-to-speech, and the like, by labeling it with template:lang-cs.

If, later, there were a merge of articles, there should definitely be strong sections for any meaningful variants, with their local terms. I wouldn't want to lose interesting information from the articles.

Panelák, though, is certainly no more an English term than blok. Practically and personally, I would use neither when referring to one to an English-speaking person with little prior contact with Czech, Slovak, or Polish language, unless I wanted to say something like, "the Czech call them paneláky." I'd say something like "they lived in a concrete block of flats (from the Communist era)." Or, more American, "concrete apartment block." Both of these phrases are also very common in English search results, incidentally, often preceded immediately by "Soviet-era" or "dismal".

But, yeah, panelák is not an English word. We'd expect to see it as such in a some dictionary somewhere, if it were. And Wikipedia is not a dictionary. – RVJ (talk) 13:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Renaming
I have renamed the article from "Panelák" to "Czech panel apartment building", to match its current scope. The headword "Czech panel apartment building" is rather imperfect, as "panel apartment building" seems to be a rare term with its 10,000 Google hits. The term "panel apartment house" has some 5,000 Google hits. The term "prefabricated apartment building" has 8,400 Google hits. A better headwords is needed.

Renaming seems to be an improvement over "panelák", which is hardly an English term. Searching for "panelák" in English Google books finds "panelák" in italics, meaning that it is treated as a non-native word.

The current scope of the article is Czech panel apartment building rather than, say, Soviet-bloc panel apartment building. Judging from the images in the article "Microdistrict", the panel apartment buildings from Soviet-bloc look all basically alike. However, apartment buildings made from concrete prefabricated panels are also found in Germany, Sweden, Mongolia and probably elsewhere around the world: see the gallery below.

As regards the scope of the Czech word "panelák", I doubt that it applies only to Czech panel apartment buildings. I would spontaneously apply it to various apartment buildings in Germany, Sweden, Poland, Estonia, and elsewhere, and in particular to those shown on the pictures in "Microdistrict". See also the section above.

The differentia "panel" in the sense of "made from concrete panels" seems apt, where as the differentia "prefabricated" seems rather inapt. Judging from Prefabricated home, prefabricated dwellings are manufactured off-site in advance, and not necessarily made from concrete.

A related article is concrete slab. Quoting Plattenbau, Plattenbau is a building whose structure is constructed of large, prefabricated concrete slabs. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Gallery:

--Dan Polansky (talk) 15:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

 * You didn't feel that discussion was necessary for a name change, even when the talk page was full of discussion of the name? I would argue that there are substantial differences between (both the fabrication and cultural meaning of) Panelaky and the concrete apartments in Sweden or Munich. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 17:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to revert. Anyone who's lived in Prague can tell you panelak is what English-speakers living in the country call those buildings. There are plenty of such "foreign" words as article titles in Wikipedia, such as börek, Birkat Hamazon, gaijin, matryoshka doll, etc. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you demonstrate that "paneláky" is an English word, by providing three independent quotations from durably archived sources? English dictionaries do not have "panelák"; I have failed to find quotations from primary sources that would show that "panelák" is an English word, such quotations that we use in English Wiktionary to attest words. Your claim that "paneláky" is an English word is non-trivial, and the burden of proof is with you. Anecdotal evidence such as "Anyone who's lived in Prague can tell you panelak is what English-speakers living in the country call those buildings" has no place in an encyclopedia; in particular, you have no access to "anyone who's lived in Prague" to ask them all. Even if most English speakers living in Prague indeed used "panelak" to refer to Czech apartment buildings made from prefabricated concrete blocks, that would not make "Panelák" a good title for an encyclopedia article. I have moved the article again to an English title, from which its has been moved back to "Panelák" by Mwalcoff. --Dan Polansky (talk) 06:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is a discussion from a board for expats living in Prague in which the word "panelak" is used without requiring a definition:.
 * Another one:
 * Here is an article from the Czech national radio broadcaster in which the word "panelak" is defined in the intro but then used throughout:.
 * Another one:.
 * Here is an article from Central Europe Review that also uses the word throughout:.
 * Here's a BBC article on panelaks:.
 * This took me all of two minutes to find on Google. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:42, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Mwalcoff. There are plenty of English media references to "Panelák" but a google search for "czech panel apartment building" yields only this wikipedia article. Seems pretty clear cut to me. Dan, if you had discussed this first, we could have avoided a revert war. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

 * The quotations given above attest, as an English term, "panelak" without the accute accent rather than "panelák". The first quotation is from a discussion board, whose use for attesting terms is tricky. The two quotations from radio.cz are not very convincing, given they are ones from a web site of a Czech organization. The quotation from the BBC article is hard to dispute, although the author is likely a non-native speaker of English, judging from his or her sentence structure used in the article. You had to go to discussion boards and to organizations specifically linked to English expats to find quotations of "panelak"; "panelak" is a not a term to be understood by a wide audience. OneLook finds "panelak" only in Wikipedia rather than in other dictionaries. There is no quotation of "panelak" in Google books that I would know of; in Google books in English texts, I have only found "panelák" with the accute accent and in italics.
 * The term "Czech panel apartment building" may be uncitable, admitted, but it has the advantage that is a sum-of-parts term consisting of "Czech" and "panel apartment building". The Czech term "panelák" refers not only to Czech buildings but also to similar buildings around the world. It is unfortunate to treat Czech panel apartment buildings and, say, Polish apartment buildings as two different concepts: they are instances of the same concept at various geographical locations. There are probably some differences in the way Czech and Polish concrete prefabricated panel apartment buildings have been built, but I am unaware of any difference that would justify obscuring the common features of the entities by the use of intransparent language-specific terms "panelak", "blok", "Plattenbau", "Paneelmaja", "Panelház", etc., instead of treating the entities under a common English head.
 * There has already been a plenty of discussion on the name of this article, as this talk page shows. In that discussion, you, Mwalcoff and TheMightyQuill, have repeatedly supported the thesis that the article should be called "Panelák" with the accute accent. In the discussions above, you have not achieved a majority support, and I have found the arguments that you have brought forth unconvincing. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

 * On the best name for "panel apartment building": The Google rates that I have found (they may differ with some search settings of the user):
 * "panel apartment building": 10,000 Google hits
 * "panel apartment house": 5,000 Google hits
 * "prefabricated apartment building": 8,400 Google hits
 * "concrete apartment block": 68,400 Google hits
 * "concrete block of flats": 13,300 Google hits
 * --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

If you start by discounting quotes from Prague-based English-language media, we're going to have trouble. Naturally, it's going to be English-speaking journalists living in Prague that are most likely to be familiar with the cultural phenomenon. They don't tend to rank very high on guided tours of the city for short term tourists. If "panel apartment building" is really a standard term, I'm rather surprised there are only 10,000 hits from google. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 20:26, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It is absurd, Dan, to base your objection on the fact that English-speakers tend to leave off the accent mark when using the term. English speakers regularly omit diacritics when using words of foreign origin like "naïve," "café," "jalapeño" or indeed "Anton Dvořák." Many English-speakers don't know how to type those characters on their keyboards or, not being used to them, simply think they don't matter. And I'm sure you know that Czech speakers themselves often ignore diacritics when typing SMS messages or e-mails. I also find it odd that you're discounting the articles from radio.cz; if anything I would think the use of "panelak" in the English texts of a Czech organization would be more authoritative, not less so. If you want to create an article on "panel apartment buildings" of Europe as a whole, you're welcome to do so, but this article is specifically about those in the former Czechoslovakia and therefore uses the term that English speakers in that region use. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:50, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Themightyquill and Mwalcoff, you may keep on moving the article back to the title "Panelák". Fact is, in the discussions on this talk page, you have achieved nothing like a plain majority support for the title "Panelák", let alone consensus. So arguing with consensus won't do. I have shown that "panelák" is not an English word by the criterion of the lack of attestability and the criterion of its absence in dictionaries. --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:43, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * What is this? I re-stumbled on this article while writing a draft about Jižní Město and nearly had a heart attack, this is overtranslation at its worst. Dan, you have not gained anything remotely close to a consensus to move this article to "Czech panel apartment building". Yes, panelák is not an English word, neither are Medovina, Rakia or Ćevapčići, but we're not going about moving these to "Czech honey-based alcoholic beverage", "Balkan distilled fruit spirit" or "Balkan mixed meat kebab-style sausages" (although maybe you would want to). Similarly "hot dog" is not a Czech term, however on Czech Wikipedia you can find an article with that name, which the editors there clearly don't feel the need to rename to "Americký parek v rohlíku". Some words do not have English translations, because they are so tied to a different country's culture and not ours that we would never need to evoke their meaning within the English speaking world. We don't have anything remotely like a Czech sídliště in England or America, we have housing estates but not these things! If you read any travel guide (try The Rough Guide to the Czech and Slovak Republics, Time Out Prague, Lonely Planet) and even some books about architecture (try ), they use panelák - in italics yes, because it's a foreign word, but it's the only word which conveys this meaning. The article should keep the Czech name. By the way, why "apartment building" and not "block of flats"? Why are you using American English when the Czech Republic is in Europe? - file lake  shoe  12:51, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if you need a guideline to support my stance, it's Naming_conventions_(use_English). - file lake  shoe  12:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with the above comment by Filelakeshoe. Panelák is the most common term for this type of building in the Czech Republic (and in Slovakia) and the article should keep the Czech name. The references provided in this discussion suggest that the word panelak is used also in the English speaking world (see the BBC link). Some words are simply untranslatable without losing the "essence" of their meaning. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 13:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

 * If this is going to be a separate article, then Panelák seems a good name for it (no need to use an "English" phrase that English speakers won't understand any better than the foreign word). But I don't really think there need to be separate articles describing this same phenomenon in relation to individual countries.--Kotniski (talk) 14:01, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I take your point, but the article contains a lot of useful information about living in one particular country. About one-third of the Czech population live in panelák and this fact itself implies that there is a room for describing many specific cultural and social elements. Perhaps we should create an article about Housing in the Czech Republic in general, because i. e. the term Satellite town has different (often pejorative!) meaning and social function in the Czech society than in the American or Japanese. Satellite towns in the Czech Rep. are sometimes called flat paneláks :) --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 15:42, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Your statement about what satellite towns are called seems improbable: Google search for "flat paneláks" finds only one hit: your contribution on this talk page. Are you speaking of what "penelák" means in Czech or what it means in English? This is an English Wikipedia. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks for notifying the WPP Czech Republic, I did not notice the renaming before. As some users stated above, I think the Czech name is a perfectly valid, since there is simply no better equivalent in English. The current article name is overtranslation. As for the need of a separate article, I am rather neutral. If improved however, this article should remain separate. - Darwinek (talk) 16:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh my....a nice example of how quantity of people does not yield quality. Panelák is simply the short (and colloquial) form of "panelový dům" and has no other official or inofficial meaning than exactly this (you can find this even in the normative dictionaries of the Czech or Slovak language). It does not refer just to the houses in former Czechoslovakia, therefore there is absolutely no reason for having separate articles for exactly the same term in Poland, Germany etc. But if you do not find it weird that the Czech and Slovak article are named "panelový dům" instead of panelák and treat exactly a panel appartment house, while all the "experts" here assert the opposite, then just go on...Incredible. Visitor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.168.229.18 (talk) 18:56, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * See Panel building. We have a (rather incomplete) collection of articles, which could quite comfortably be merged into one. However merging isn't the matter in question, the matter in question is the name of this article, and if we are going to have an article about panel buildings in the Czech Republic and Slovakia (I really don't care either way), it should have the title Panelák, as this is the most frequently used word in English language sources. See WP:COMMONNAME - file lake  shoe  20:04, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Filelakeshoe, can you demonstrate that "... Panelák ... is the most frequently used word in English language sources"? Google search for "panelák" in English pages" gives me 16,600 hits, Google search for "paneláky" in English pages gives me 10,700 hits, while Google search for "concrete apartment blocks" gives 292,000 hits. If "panelák" is the most common word, can you post hyperlinks to at least ten English scholarly sources that use the word "panelák"?
 * Another interesting search is search for "concrete apartment blocks" in Google images, which returns conspicously many pictures that I immediately recognize as a cs:"panelák", no manner whether the picture is from Russia or Poland. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it also returns images such as this, which is a "concrete apartment block", that is, an apartment block made out of concrete, but not a panel building. Your WP:GOOGLEHITS argument, aside from being based on google hits, is analogous to saying that "a search for "ćevapčići" returns 20000 hits, whereas a search for "sausage" returns 2 million, ergo let's move ćevapčići to Balkan sausage". Here are a handful of English books using "panelák":.
 * Just to clarify, I wouldn't be against starting one article, Panel building, merging panelák, plattenbau et al into that, and describing each country's panel buildings and their significance in sub-sections. What I'm against is this article being titled "Czech panel apartment building" (and beginning "Panelák is a colloquial term in Czech and Slovak for...", which was the state of the article for 2 months after your move war) If someone reads a book about this topic they will encounter the word panelák. Should they want to come to Wikipedia to find more they would most likely type in panelák, not take a guess at some vague American English translation. - file lake  shoe  11:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * So instead of ten, you provide three links to books as a support for the claim that "'panelák' is the most often used term in English". Why am I not convinced? What evidence can you offer to support your claim?
 * Re "If someone reads a book...": When a person types "panelák", he is automatically redirected to "Czech panel apartment building", "Czech concrete apartment block", or whatever. I do not see the problem. Redirects are exactly for that. As regards vague guesses, is the article "Panelák" about (a) Czech paneláks or (b) Czech and Slovak paneláks?
 * On yet another note, what is wrong with American English? Is Brittish English somehow per default better than American English? Either a British title or an American title is going to be used; I don't care too much other than that there are more Americans than Britons, so American English makes more sensible default to me. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:53, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Surely enough evidence has been presented by now to show that panelak is used in English discussions of the topic. Do you have a better (commoner) name - one that relates specifically to the Czechoslovak phenomenon, which is after all the subject of this article?--Kotniski (talk) 12:13, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) Re Kotniski: There isn't anything like a specifically Czechoslovak phenomenon of "panelák": I have collected a gallery of paneláks from various countries, posted at the top of this thread. There is no attribute-based selection of objects that picks Czech paneláks to the exclusion of Polish paneláks. Unsurprisingly, there is no English single-word term that picks exactly Czech paneláks. But there is also no Czech single-word term that picks exactly Czech paneláks. The Czech word "panelák" is not constrained to Czech buldings, and it is not constrained to Czech and Slovak buildings. If there should be an article about Czech paneláks to the exclusion of Polish paneláks, there is nothing wrong about this article having a multi-word name such as "Czech concrete apartment block": the length of the title discloses that there is no compact concept described by the name. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:24, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Enough evidence has been supplied to support the claim that the term "panelák" is sometimes used in English language literature as a foreign word, often written by non-native English speakers. No evidence has been supplied to support the claim that the term "panelák" is the most common one among those terms used to refer to the class of building to which the Czech term "panelák" refers. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:28, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, the Czech or Slovak word panelak may not refer specifically to Czechoslovak buildings, but when used in English it presumably does. I don't believe that "concrete apartment block" is precise enough to specify this type of building. I haven't seen any evidence in favour of any alternative term.--Kotniski (talk) 12:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the situation is much like with "Czech national identity card, which could equally well be called "Občanka", and has been called "Občanský průkaz" before I have moved it. Check the category Category:National identity cards. The title "Czech national identity card" has four words while the colloquial "Občanka" has only one word. You can find all sorts of cultural references to "občanka", but it does not make "občanka" a meaningful title for an encyclopedia article. I admit, though, that "občanka" is hard to find in English texts.
 * On evidence for the alternative term "concrete apartment block", used in reference to Czech and also non-Czech buildings:
 * "...the anonymous concrete apartment blocks that occupy the edges of the country's towns and cities."
 * "...Despite the recent economic boom, his neighborhood, south Warsaw's Bemowo, hasn't changed much -- at least not outwardly. The Communist-era concrete apartment blocks have remained the same, there is no historic center and there are no bars or restaurants."
 * "...Which is why, on this particular evening, Karel von Schwarzenberg is in a smoky pub in Novo Dvorska, a Prague suburb filled with communist-era prefab concrete apartment blocks.
 * "Its developer, Milan Ganik, said luxury builders in Prague had shied away from large projects because they might remind people of the dreary concrete apartment blocks built all over Eastern Europe under communism."
 * "For decades during Communist rule, this small city at the southern edge of what was then Czechoslovakia was a dusty industrial town, best known for a massive oil refinery and a vast wilderness of decaying concrete apartment blocks on the north."
 * "We passed utilitarian grey concrete apartment blocks and old, factories, reminders of Soviet days."
 * "While there are a fair share of buildings that could stand a new coat of paint and some grim concrete apartment blocks, the historic nucleus of the city is a knockout."
 * "I’d driven up from Vienna through the bleak Moravian plain and I didn’t really know what to expect. The city lies at the confluence of two rivers and is surrounded by forested hills, which all sounded promising enough, but, on approach, an outer circle of concrete apartment blocks — the paneláky of the Soviet era — does little to inspire confidence, and an inner circle of railway bridges and grimy run-down frontages from the Viennese Secession doesn’t do much to lift the spirits either"
 * "From there you can see mile upon mile of dull concrete apartment blocks south of the river, built by the Communists to house workers. We also visited the Bratislava Castle perched on the hill above the city, ..."
 * "Nove mesto part is a larger area just in the vicinity of the Old Town, still containing some locations considered as central (referred to as the wider centre or "sirsie centrum" in Slovak). Karlova Ves, Dubravka, Lamac, Devin (including the Devin castle), Devinska Nova Ves and village Zahorska Bystrica belong to district Bratislava IV. Bratislava V covers the largest part of Bratislava - Petrzalka (with its concrete apartment blocks) and the formerly independent villages Jarovce, Rusovce and Cunovo."
 * --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * OK but does the phrase "concrete apartment blocks" - on its own, without any "grim" or "prefab" type qualifier - specifically refer to the panelak building technology? I suspect its scope is wider.--Kotniski (talk) 13:12, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably not. But what is the specific panelák building technology? What distinguishes paneláks from other concrete apartment blocks?
 * If you have concerns for specificity and accuracy, the title could read "Czech prefab concrete apartment block"--Google has some hits for "prefab concrete apartment blocks" in plural, even in Google books. I do not have any reference on what "panelák" means exactly; in Czech, it is a colloquial word anyway. Being a colloquial term, "panelák" does not probably have a wholly precise, sharp meaning. It refers to a certain vague class of buildings found in the Czech Republic and to all other buildings that are somehow similar. If I do not know what class of buildings exactly paneláks are, how is the reader of the encyclopedia article going to figure that out? Is the difference between "prefab concrete apartment block" and "concrete apartment block" significant enough to warrant a differentiation in Wikipedia? --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:26, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the article explains what class of buildings they are. If the title were going to do that job properly, I think it would have to be a mouthful like Communist-era prefabricated concrete apartment blocks in the Czech Republic and Slovakia. So I'm left with my preference for the concise one-word option.--Kotniski (talk) 15:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Dan, "concrete apartment block" is a legitimate English term but it is not a translation of panelák! Your google image search for it returned plenty of images of apartment blocks made from concrete which are not paneláky. My problem with you using the word "apartment" is that it is a BrE/AmE false friend - in AmE it means a flat you live in, and in BrE it means a flat you rent when you go on holiday. I stayed in a "concrete apartment block" in Croatia once, it was a 2 story semi detached house which its owner had converted into apartments to let out to tourists, and it was definitely not a panelák.
 * I also disagree that the term panelák is usually used by "non-native speakers", and a lot of your extracts you posted weren't actually about paneláky per se, they were just describing a place - an extract saying that Prague's district "Novo Dvorska" (sic) is full of concrete apartment blocks in an article about Karel Schwarzenberg is not a reliable source about the name of these buildings, they're only mentioned in passing. A lot of the books using "panelák" are travel guides, as well as a few architecture books which I posted, which actually explain what they are. I believe the case of Občanka is slightly different, as "national identity card" is a clear unambiguous translation, and what I'm trying to tell you is that "concrete apartment block" is not. - file lake  shoe  21:32, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * (unindent) Filelakeshoe, I think I can see your point with lack of specificity. This point can be handled by using "Prefab concrete apartment blocks in the Czech Republic and Slovakia", or something of the sort. The advantage of this title and all similar titles is that there can be a series of articles of the form "A in B", where A identifies the class of paneláks no matter whether in Czechia, Poland or Russia, and B identifies the place in which entities of this class occur. Having such a naming structure is my main point. I do realize that "Prefab concrete apartment blocks in the Czech Republic and Slovakia" has zero Google hits. The task is to find the best term for "A". "panelák" does not do for "A", or else you get "Paneláks in the Czech Republic and Slovakia", "Paneláks in Poland" and "Paneláks" in Russia, which is a terminological choice unjust to language-specific terms of Poles and Russians. My point, again, is to get rid of language-specific terms for what is basically one class of objects. It seems very hard to find a term that is both fitting and actually used. It seems that printed media do not consider this class of buildings worthy of consideration under one head. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * On the "občanka" case, "občanka", an abbreviation of "občanský průkaz", is not unambiguously translated as "national identity card": it was not a card but a booklet. By naming the article "Czech national identity card", a compromise is being made. The term "Czech national identity card" has 416 Google hits, hardly a convincing number. A more fitting term "Czech national identity document" has zero Google hits. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:23, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

 * On another subject, there is a real problem with the lacking definition of the allegedly English term "panelák". Consider this quotation:
 * "Panelak was one of the first words I learned in Czech. It refers to high-rise multi-storey blocks of flats, constructed of pre-fabricated, pre-stressed concrete panels, which dot the country."
 * Maybe the English term "panelák" only refers to high-rise buildings, but the Czech "panelák" definitely refers also to four-storey buildings that are by no means high-rise. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:07, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

incredible!
Hey people, I have the evidence that Italy is a post-communist country of eastern Europe! Look at this: And this! http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Cd2g7K1pFb4/SmT4ZK8HqTI/AAAAAAAAEqU/qB3hZU7p46c/s400/pilastro_virgolone.jpg

Well, according to the notorious thesis of many contributors to the discussion, this seems to be the only meaningful conclusion...!--Desyman44 (talk) 15:52, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Subject of the article
I believe the article is too focused on the Czech/Slovak instances of the Soviet-era panel apartment building. Those types of structures are prevalent in all of the countries who were under heavy Soviet influence at the time. This would include the likes of Poland, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Belarus. Plus, the article cites little to no references to the actual use of the term in Western media. And since that type of building is commonly found in other countries as well, I don't see why the article should be named with the Czech term. - Reanimated X (talk) 12:07, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It uses the czech term because it's focused on Czech/Slovak instances. Various artistic and architectural movements in different countries are "heavily influenced" by others, but can still merit their own article. There seems to be plenty of content here. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:08, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Then another question pops up. Is it notable enough, are the Czech/Slovak instances mentioned enough in the foreign press to deserve their own separate article, since there isn't much difference between all the instances of this type of building in different countries. Shouldn't this article be reworked in order to encompass all of the instances? - Reanimated X (talk) 15:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * A number of people, including myself, have argued yes several times. Please look back through the talk page to see why. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I have read it, and no one has countered Dan's arguments so far. And nowhere did I find anything about the article's notability in the above sections. - Reanimated X (talk) 16:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * A broader article is located at Tower bloc, and you are of course welcome to expand it to include details of other soviet-influenced architecture. I don't believe there is a more suitable term than Panelak for describing these buildings in the Czech Republic. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 18:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You have not replied to any of the points I have made since we've started this discussion. For example, all the other instances of such panel buildings constructed of pre-fabricated, pre-stressed concrete in the other ex-communist countries being included here. And if not, is the Czech variant of the building notable enough to deserve its own article. - 19:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reanimated X (talk • contribs)
 * I have responded to some of your points, but you're right, I didn't respond to your suggestion that it isn't notable. I disagree that it isn't notable. I think there is plenty of content in this article without broadening the topic and I think there is a good, if not overwhelming, amount of press about them. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Terminology
1) This kind of building technology in English is called Large Panel System or LPS.

2) This is not the same thing as a tower block, which only includes what in Slovakia are called "veziaky" rather than "radova zastavba" and it also includes non-LPS tower blocks.

3) The term "panelak" in Czech and Slovak is not restricted to only Czech and Slovak structures.

4) There should be a joint article on panel system buildings, history (e.g. the Ronan Point collapse in the UK).

5) There is no reason for a separate article on LPS buildings in the Czech Rep or Eastern Europe any more than there is a reason for a separate article on eastern european cars or eastern european women.

6) We English expats use all kinds of local words for things we come into contact with more here than at home - including "obcianka" actually as was mentioned above though we use it to refer to our residence permit cards - because that's what we have to show when someone in a bank or whatever asks for our "obcianka". Another example would be "cukraren" because there isn't really an equivalent sit-down business in English (actually cafe's sell the same range of things, but that word is already taken as the translation for kaviaren), it doesn't mean we could use those words with non-expats and they would have any idea what we are talking about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.237.234.5 (talk) 22:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

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Ideology: brutalism
Let us link these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalist_architecture Zezen (talk) 19:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Panelák


text:
Talk:Who Do We Think We Are

Number 1 in Sweden according to the contemporary record press: https://archive.org/details/deep-purple_202211/Coverdale-NME/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.212.27 (talk) 00:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

<^>v!!This album is connected!!v<^>

 * All song titles serve as redirects to this album, have their own pages, or have had disambig links placed at the appropriate article or disambiguation page.--Hraefen Talk 18:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Sleeve
The vynile release's inner sleeve reports some dozens of quotes taken from various (mainly) British newsmagazines of the time, dating from 1969 to 1972. Can we mention this in the article? And how? I am not sure that the CD release includes them as well.--Doktor Who 18:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Unnecessary fact
"The album also featured the energetic hard rock single "Woman from Tokyo", which has been performed on several tours by the band over the years.” What band would not perform hits on tour? Nicmart (talk) 20:36, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Who Do We Think We Are


text:
Talk:Burn (Deep Purple album)

New rewrite as the album upcomingly turns 50.
On 15 February 1974, Burn was released, ultimately becoming one of my favorite albums in DP discography. As we celebrate the upcoming 50th anniversary of its release, I am currently working on a complete rewrite which I have been working on for some time with a bit of changes, article expansions, etc. Changes or edits during the re-writing are encouraged, and I will put it into the expansion if necessary. The rewrite will be published at the end of the day or by tomorrow. Thank you for the support! ExcitiveStan3680 Talk 14:06, 13 Feburary 2023 (UTC)

<^>v!!This album is connected!!v<^>

 * All song titles serve as redirects to this album, have their own pages, or have had disambig links placed at the appropriate article or disambiguation page.--Hraefen Talk 19:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

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Bad writing in the article
I'd like to comment on the fact that the article is written in a very confused way, with lot of consecutio errors. I think someone should fix it and remove entire sentences that are quite unintellegible. 79.19.173.27 (talk) 20:56, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

 * What are "consecutio errors"? Do you mean the verb tenses don't agree? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:12, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. The Background section is really awful. 188.23.66.112 (talk) 15:10, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Who wrote the title track?
"All tracks are written by Ritchie Blackmore, David Coverdale, Jon Lord, Ian Paice and Glenn Hughes, except where noted"

Yes, but according to the song's article, Hughes was not involved in writing it. Which article is correct? Harfarhs (talk) 11:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Hughes actually did co-wrote/contributed most of the songs except “Sail Away” and “Mistreated”, which I can see from the 2004 linear notes as it claims. Hughes says that his name would be on the credits or at least getting some royalty after almost 45 years according from a 2018 podcast interview. However, we should treat it as the original songwriting credits as most of the reissue pressings excluding 2004 does not have Hughes as the songwriter. I already have the note below the track listing about Hughes’ songwriting situation. ExcitiveStan3680 (talk) 18:27, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Burn (Deep Purple album)


text:
Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2005-04-18/Andrea Dworkin death

FYI, "blogger Joe Gratz" is me. The only reason I figured out that Wikipedia had the scoop was because I'd read the news on sivacracy.net (a post by Ann Bartow, a professor plugged in to feminist academic listservs) and had hopped to the Andrea Dworkin article to update it with a date of death, only to find that it was already taken care of. --Dreamword 23:56, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia's level of journalism is quite low
I would like to applaud Wikipedia for its scoop, but I cannot. Part of the reason is that I have had a lot of communication with Catharine MacKinnon about Andrea since Andrea's death and she was quite disappointed with Andrea's article. The other problem is that Wikipedia's level of journalism is so low that I doubt that many readers took Wikipedia's claim of Andrea's death seriously. In balance, the coup fo scoop was kinda poopy. Gotta work on that credibility issue some more. -- Pinktulip 12:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)