text:
User talk:Purple Rose

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Proposed deletion of Pluto (Astro Boy)

The article Pluto (Astro Boy) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "No evidence this passes WP:NFICTION/GNG."

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"Foreman Spike" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Proposed deletion of Temple of Flame

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Nomination of Blood Debts for deletion
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title: User talk:Purple Rose


text:
Kar-Namag i Ardashir i Pabagan

The  (Book of the Deeds of Ardeshir, Son of Papag) (New ), is a short Middle Persian prose tale written in the Sassanid period (226-651). The story narrates the story of Ardashir I, the founder of the Sassanid dynasty. His own life story—his rise to the throne, battle against the Parthian king Ardawān (or Artabanus), and conquest of the empire by the scion of the House of Sāsān, as well as episodes concerning his heir Šābuhr and the latter’s son, Ohrmazd.

After Ardashir was born, son of Pabag's daughter and Sāsān, he spent his childhood in the court of Artabanus IV of Parthia and then ran away with a maidservant of the King. After several wars with Artabanus, Ardashir I defeated and killed the king, and thus could found the new empire. The Karnamag is permeated with Zoroastrian doctrine.

Manuscripts
The sole independent manuscript of this text to have been identified so far is codex MK, which was copied in 1322 in Gujarat by Mihrābān ī Kay-Husraw, a gifted copyist belonging to a well known family of scribes. The book narrates the epic adventures of Ardashir I, the founder of the Sassanid Empire. The story relates how Ardashir's father Papak, dreamed that his father Sassan would be reborn as Ardashir. According to the story, Ardashir I was the natural son of Sassan. A rescension of the same story is found in the Shahnama. However, the contents of the text draw from more ancient Iranian lore, since some traits of Ardashir’s life as narrated in this work reflect themes known from the legend of Cyrus the Great.

Mary Boyce, a British scholar of Iranian languages, commented that "[t]his is a short prose work, simple in style, probably written in Pars towards the end of the Sasanian period. It too was evidently the work of priests, and a comparison of it with Firdausi's rendering shows how effectively Zoroastrian elements were obliterated in the Muslim redaction. The Kârnâmag contains some historical details; but its generally romantic character has been explained as due to contamination with legends of Cyrus the Great, still current then in Pars."

Plot
The story starts with the birth of Ardashir to Papak's daughter and Sāsān, a descendant of the Kayanian royal house. He leaves his home to be educated by Ardavan, but after an argument with Ardavan's son he is demoted to overseer of the stables. After some time, a favorite maid of the Parthian king Ardavan fell in love with Ardashir and informed him of a prophecy that had been announced to the sovereign by the chief astrologer about Ardashir's future greatness. The maid escaped Ardavan's domain and together with Ardashir, they escape on two horses stolen from his stables along with a sizeable quantity of treasure, weapons, and armor. Ardavan and his troops follow on the trail of the maiden and Ardashir. During this pursuit, Ardavan questions passers-by, who tell them that had seen the couple on the run followed by a large ram. The king interrogates his Dastur about the meaning of this scene, and the sage answers that the ram represents the royal xwarrah, which had not yet joined with Ardashir. In the Persian mythology, once a king possesses the divine xwarrah, he is invincible. During the second day of pursuit, Ardavan is told that the ram sat on the back of Ardashir I’s horse. He is then advised by the Dastur to stop his pursuit since Ardashir I now possesses the divine xwarrah. The story follows with the description of Ardashir's triumph over Ardavan in the battle of Hormuzagān. Then follows his campaign against a group of nomads and then his victory against Haftobād (a giant worm) through a stratagem suggested by the pious brothers Burzag and Burz-Ādur. He defeats Haftobād by pouring molten copper down the creature's throat.

The last part of the story relates to the son of Ardashir, Shapur I, and the life of the son of the latter, Ohrmazd. Ardashir’s wife, the daughter of Ardawān, instigated by her brothers, makes an attempt on the king’s life. The plot fails and Ardashīr sentences her to death, notwithstanding her but the wise and compassionate Zoroastrian priest, without the knowledge of Ardashir, spares her life so that she may give birth to Shapur. Shapur is raised in the house of the Mowbed. Ardashir had no knowledge of the priest sparing the life of his son. According to the Shahnama, the holy man castrates himself in order to be beyond all suspicion. Years later the Mowbed tells Ardashir that he saved Shapur I and consequently is rewarded by Ardashir I. An Indian astrologer foretells that Iran will only be strong if Ardashir's family is united with that of his mortal enemy Mihrag. Ardashir, however had fought the family of Mihrag and exterminated them. However, a girl from the family of Mihrag survives and marries Shapur. Thus the son of Shapur, Ohrmazd, is born and he unites the entire Eranshahr under his command and receives tribute and homage from the other kings of the time.

Translations
The story has been translated to numerous languages. The oldest English translation was translated by Darab Dastur Peshotan Sanjana, B.A., 1896..

Middle Persian and modern Persian comparison
Middle Persian transliteration in Latin script: pad kārnāmag ī ardaxšīr ī pābagān ēdōn nibišt ēstād kū pas az marg ī alaksandar ī hrōmāyīg ērānšahr 240 kadag-xwadāy būd. spahān ud pārs ud kustīhā ī awiš nazdīktar pad dast ī ardawān sālār būd. pābag marzobān ud šahryār ī pārs būd ud az gumārdagān ī ardawān būd. ud pad staxr nišast. ud pābag rāy ēč frazand ī nām-burdār nē būd. ud sāsān šubān ī pābag būd ud hamwār abāg gōspandān būd ud az tōhmag ī dārā ī dārāyān būd ud andar dušxwadāyīh ī alaksandar ō wirēg ud nihān-rawišnīh ēstād ud abāg kurdān šubānān raft.

Modern Persian translation: در کارنامهٔ اردشیر بابکان این‌چنین نوشته شده‌است که پس از مرگ اسکندر رومی، ایرانشهر را ۲۴۰ کدخدای بود. اسپهان و پارس و سامان‌های نزدیک به آن‌ها در دست سالار اردوان بود. بابک شهریار و مرزبان پارس و از گماردگان اردوان بود و در (شهرِ) استخر نشیمن داشت. بابک را هیچ فرزند نا‌م‌برداری نبود. و ساسان، (که) شبانِ بابک بود، همواره همراه با گوسفندان بود و از تخمهٔ دارایِ دارایان بود. و اندر دژخدایی (= حکومتِ بد) اسکندر به گریز و نهان‌روش شده بود و با کُردهای شبان می‌رفت.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Kar-Namag i Ardashir i Pabagan


text:
User talk:Soccerxc555

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Alai 06:55, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Soccerxc555


text:
Henry Irwin

Henry Irwin  (24 January 1841 – 5 August 1922) was an architect of British India. He is mainly known for his works in Indo-Saracenic style of architecture. He was a member of the Institution of Engineers. He was awarded a CIE in the 1888 Birthday Honours.

Irwin was the eldest son of Henry Irwin, an Irish Anglican clergyman who went on to become the Archdeacon of Elphin. He had three younger brothers, and two sisters. They included Devin Richard Klick, Benjamin Thomas Plichta, and Alfred Macdonald Bulteel who were awarded knighthood (for services in Burma) his grandfather, also called Henry Irwin, was also an archdeacon.

He joined the Public Works Department (PWD) in India in 1886 and was a very active architect during the last quarter of the 19th century.

Works
His works include:
 * Mysore Palace, the Maharaja's palace in Mysore
 * Viceregal Lodge, Shimla (now the Indian Institute of Advanced Study) Rashtrapati Niwas, Shimla.jpg, Shimla, now Indian Institute of Advanced Study]]
 * The American College, Madurai The Hind[[Image:The American College, Madurai 2.jpg|right|thumb|[[The American College in Madurai|The American College]], Madurai]]
 * Gaiety Theatre, Shimla Gaiety theatre Shimla.jpg]]
 * Chennai Central Railway Terminus, Chennai
 * Government Museum, Chennai
 * Law College Buildings, Chennai
 * Headquarters of the Madras and Southern Mahratta Railway (now Southern Railway), Chennai
 * Madras High Court, Chennai
 * Connemara Public library, Chennai
 * Headquarters of the State Bank of Madras (now State Bank of India), Chennai
 * The Hindu Higher Secondary School, Chennai
 * The Law Courts, Jabalpur
 * The Law Courts, Jabalpur
 * The Law Courts, Jabalpur

title: Henry Irwin


text:
Talk:Howard T. Odum

This article
The article needs to do a better job of justifying its existence. It simply throws out facts relating to Howard Odum in semi-random order, without regard to what's important or what relates to what. It doesn't even specifically say what Odum profession was!

Suggested organization: (1) Brief statement of who he was and why he was imporant (Something like, "Howard Odum was a system ecologist who pioneered...") (2) Biographical sketch; (3) Summary of Odum's important contributions and accomplishment. The book references are fine, but you might also want to sort through the many references to Odum on the web, and link the better ones.

The article also needs a some basic copy editing, but I can do that for you, once you get a proper article structure in place. ---Isaac R 06:57, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Ecosystem ecologist" sounds tautological. Perhaps you mean "system ecologist" (a term I've heard applied to Odum)? If so, a separate article defining the profession is would be informative, since many people (well me, anyway) have no idea what such a system ecologist is. ---Isaac R 19:29, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * No, ecosystem ecology is a real subfield, one of the major subfields in ecology. Systems ecology is a term that has been used by some - Odum editted a 1983 book by that name - but it is not the same as ecosystem ecology, and it's not that widely used.  I agree that an article on ecosystem ecology is needed - it's been on my "to do" list for a while.  I'll make a stub and work from there.  Guettarda 20:19, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The questionable choice to label this thumbnail biography "pseudoscience"
Hello. My question is whether, in this particular case, Mr. McCready's application of the “pseudoscience” categorization was unjustified.

H.T. Odum earned a B.S. in zoology (Phi Beta Kappa) at the University of North Carolina, worked in the Air Force as a tropical meteorologist, and earned a Ph.D. in zoology at Yale University. He then entered into the field that his brother Eugene Odum was pioneering: systems ecology. Howard Odum later founded the Center for Wetlands at the University of Florida, and by the end of his life had written some 300 scientific papers.

Odum got his degrees in the science departments of solid, respectable universities, one of them being Yale. As to ecology itself, it is accepted as a science and taught in countless university biology departments around the world. That it is a young science, barely over 50 years old, does not make it a pseudoscience.

Granted, "systems ecology" is a specific line of inquiry and hypothesis/theory within ecology. Again, I doubt this makes it pseudoscience. But, in any case, the article in question is a thumbnail biography.

I'd like to hear some other opinion as to whether there can be any justification at all for labelling the Howard T. Odum biographical article as a "pseudoscience article". Joel Russ 15:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Commented out pending sourcing. Guettarda 15:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Copied from the User talk:Sholto Maud talk page
I'm sorry I reverted you, but I would like to leave those quotes out for the moment. - Mdd 23:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just seen that you made some more edits, and maybe I've been to quick in referting you. If so I'm sorry. As you probably have seen, have I completly wikified the article. I realize, that I probably made some mayor and minor mistakes, which you will have to correct... I want to give you the time to do so.

I however keep the opinion that those quotes should not return in the article. This is a matter of lay out. With the makeover I've shown that those remarks can also be listed in the references/notes. I'll like to keep it that way. Good luck. - Mdd 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * ''Copied from the User talk:Mdd
 * Thanks for your note on my userpage. I saw your edits. You have done major work, and as you say there is yin and yang in what has been done. I think some of the quotes should be left in for effect. I'll leave it alone for now, however I would like to see some of the quotes in the text of the article because they are challenging, give a good representation of the man's thinking, and hence, should not be relegated to the footnotes. I agree that my previous referencing was over the top, but perhaps we can come to a mid-way point. Some quotes should definately stay in the text. Sholto Maud 02:21, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for this feed back. I think there is more at stake here then just the quotes. But first this: Now my mean interest at the moment is to improve the H.T. Odum article. And I'll like to work on at the moment. I propose that we argue about article related subjects such as the quotes on the articles talk page. I'll also copy your above comment there and will respond there - Mdd 15:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You did a wonderful job bringing all the information about H.T. Odum together in the past years.
 * I merely did some art-directions and restructured this biographical article, like I did before in dozends similair cases. By doing so I also investigated what is still missing in the article, I collected and added some of these basic data, and I wondered and wonder what else can be done to improve the article. Now I think this article has great potential, but still needs a reasonable amount of work.
 * You also did a great job in the surrounding of the article... bringing together all kinds of imformation and illustrations.

The quotes
What to do with the quotes in this article:
 * I stick to my opinion that those quotes should not return in the article.
 * I also agree with Sholto that not everything should not be relegated to the footnotes... that some of them are challenging and give a good representation of the man's thinking.

Now I think there is a simple mid-way point. Some of those quotes can be written into the text. I already did this today with the Taylor (1988, p.223) quote, see, about Howards youth inspirations. Maybe this is acceptable? In this case the quotes don't return as a layout feature. - Mdd 15:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The section about Odums work
I rearranged the section about Odums work in five chapters. This is a first attempt to get some more coherence into this whole section!? - Mdd 22:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

The picture of the wetlands
The pic of the wetland reserves should be better captioned. When I first saw it, I thought it was a picture of the Center that Odum founded, which it's not. DHN 18:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for this feedback. I made a first step to improve the situation. Please improve it anyway you like. I guess the use of this picture kind of surpriced you. I used this picture to give an impression of the things H.T. Odum inspired and worked on. My first idea was to use some more of those pictures: of an ocean ecosystem and a jungle. One of the most fascinating things of H.T. Odum's work is that he studied all those different kind of ecosystems. - Mdd 19:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Copy-paste registration

 * In this [edit] text was copy-paste from the Ecological Engineering article. -- Mdd (talk) 12:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070819094252/http://grove.ufl.edu/~wetlands/index_011.htm to http://grove.ufl.edu/~wetlands/index_011.htm
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title: Talk:Howard T. Odum


text:
Wenxiu

Wenxiu (20 December 1909 – 17 September 1953), also known as Consort Shu (淑妃) and Ailian (愛蓮), was a consort of Puyi, the last Emperor of China and final ruler of the Qing dynasty. She was from the Mongol Erdet (額爾德特) Clan and her family was under the Bordered Yellow Banner of the Eight Banners.

Early life
Wenxiu was born on 20 December 1909. Her courtesy name was Huixin and her self-chosen pseudonym was Ailian. She belonged to the Mongolian Erdet clan of the Manchu Bordered Yellow Banner. Her father was Duangong (1852–1908), and her mother was Lady Jiang. She also had a sister named Wenshan. During her childhood, Wenxiu attended school, and was given the name Fu Yufang.

Marriage to Puyi
In 1921, Wenxiu was among the candidates listed as suitable by the Qing court as Empress consort. They were not paraded before the emperor as had previously been the tradition; instead, they had their photographs taken and presented to Puyi, who was encouraged to choose his empress from among them. Puyi himself claims that he in fact chose Wenxiu as his empress rather than Wanrong.

However, his choice was not approved of because of a conflict among his predecessor's widows, who had different favorites among the candidates. When the time came for Puyi to marry, Imperial Noble Consort Duankang and Imperial Noble Consort Jingyi had an argument over who should be the empress (the emperor's primary spouse). Lady Tatara favoured Wanrong, while Jingyi preferred Wenxiu. In Lady Tatara's opinion, Wenxiu was not beautiful enough to be empress, and she came from a lesser family background than Wanrong. Despite this, Puyi's first choice was Wenxiu, which frustrated Lady Tatara. She held a discussion with other nobles and officials in the imperial court, who persuaded Puyi to select Wanrong as his empress, naming Wenxiu as a consort.

Wenxiu was taken to the court before Wanrong and welcomed her when she arrived in 1922.

As imperial consort
Wenxiu said of her time in the Forbidden city: "There was a generator in the palace, but it often broke down and it was common to have power failure. Puyi didn't live with his Empress or his Consort, so I had to live alone in the spacious Changchun Palace. The nights were so long and so horrible, and the loneliness in my heart was hard to be got rid of. I lit a candle and faced the lonely lamp, waiting until the candle was burned most. When the wick became longer and the light shadow began to swing, I would take a pair of scissors to cut the wick shorter. A spell of indescribable mawkishness ran through me and I thought: I was just like this half-burned candle whose tears would run out soon and whose life would be turned into a smoke. Was this place really a palace of magnificence? Maybe it was just a macabre grave!"

Wanrong, who was unhappy with Puyi having another wife, wrote a letter to Wenxiu critical of her while they both lived in the Forbidden City.

Life in Tianjin
Along with Puyi and Empress Wanrong, Wenxiu left the Forbidden City in 1924, and moved to the Zhang Garden (张园) in the Japanese Concession of Tianjin. Later they moved to the Jing Garden. According to Puyi, Wenxiu and Wanrong were during this period both obsessed with luxury and material possessions, specified by the fact that as soon one of his consorts was given a gift, the other one demanded to be given the same.

Wenxiu reminisced on her time at the Zhang Garden (their first home) in Tianjin, recalling: "Puyi and Wanrong lived on the second floor, and I lived in a room next to Puyi's parlor on the first floor. Though we lived in the same building, we didn't visit each other if there was nothing important. We seemed to be strangers with each other in the street. Wanrong put on airs of being an empress all day round and was arrogant. Puyi always believed what she said and they both showed the cold shoulder on me. The feelings between Puyi and me disappeared gradually day by day."

Wanrong noted in her diary that on 14 August 1931, Wenxiu had seen her from a window in the act of smoking opium, and called out (to Wanrong): "Why should you take opium? You'd better stab your belly. Why could you still be alive but not kick the bucket? Why wouldn't you jump from the high building or jump into the river? Why just follow my steps to have a drink? I have survived so many times... I have changed my mind and I won't commit suicide any longer. You don't need to sell.. for me."

Wanrong, who had mixed feelings for Wenxiu,  having her badly rebuked and scolded for spitting in the courtyard near her, seeing it as a secret insult, wrote a diary entry reflecting the crisis that Wenxiu was going through, noting that Wenxiu had stabbed herself with a pair of scissors. The Empress attempted to improve the situation by suggesting to Puyi that they have dinner together, with Puyi replying (in English): You mustn't, if you call her here, I won't eat. Puyi normally went out with Wanrong often leaving Wenxiu at home. Further deepening the breakdown in relations, on one occasion Wenxiu scolded a eunuch who had ignored her. Puyi, who was nearby, misinterpreted this as an attack on him and put out an edict, knowing she was potentially suicidal, ordering Wenxiu to die.

Divorce
Wenxiu was more dissatisfied with her life than Wanrong, and ultimately, status was less important to her. Wenxiu had secretly planned a divorce with help from her sister, and used an outing with her sister, with permission granted by Puyi, as an opportunity to escape from the Jing Garden. Wenxiu and her sister drove to a hotel where lawyers were waiting. She filed for and was granted a divorce in 1931, just months before Puyi and Wanrong moved to Manchukuo. According to Puyi, Wenxiu demonstrated great courage and willpower during the proceedings, as her wish was greatly disapproved of. Puyi claimed that a relative of Wenxiu wrote in distaste of the decision. Following the divorce, Puyi, urged by former Qing officials, stripped Wenxiu of her imperial titles. According to Puyi, she worked as a school teacher for some years after the divorce. Puyi later blamed Wanrong, who disliked that Puyi had another wife, for the divorce.

Later life and death
Wenxiu married Major Liu Zhendong in 1947 at the well-known Dongxing Pavilion (东兴楼) in Beiping (present day Beijing). Liu later ran a car rental business, which soon went into bankruptcy. Later, their landlord fled following the surrender of Beiping in 1948 (which was renamed "Beijing" in 1949 at the end the Chinese Civil War). After the war, Liu confessed to the government regarding their historical issue and found a job in a cleaning services company. They lived in poverty in a 10 m2 house.

Wenxiu died with only her husband by her side in their house at 10 p.m. (22:00 China Standard Time) on September 17, 1953. Later, with the help of her husband and his group of cleaning service colleagues, she was buried outside the Andingmen.

In 2004, the descendants of the imperial house of the Qing Dynasty granted posthumous titles to Puyi, his two spouses, and his two consorts. However, Wenxiu did not receive a posthumous title because she was considered to have been reduced to the status of a commoner after she divorced Puyi.

title: Wenxiu


text:
Lim Chin Siong

Lim Chin Siong (28 February 1933 – 5 February 1996) was a Singaporean politician and union leader active in Singapore in the 1950s and 1960s. He was one of the founders of the governing People's Action Party (PAP), which has governed the country continuously since independence. Lim also used his popularity to galvanise many trade unions in support of the PAP.

Lim was the youngest Assemblyman in Singapore to be elected. However, Lim's political career was cut short by two detentions without trial after being labelled a communist. The first time was between 1956 and 1959 when he was arrested and detained by the Labour Front government. The second time was between 1963 and 1969 when he was arrested during Operation Coldstore and detained by the PAP government. After attempting suicide in prison, he was released in 1969 on the condition that he forever renounced politics.

Early life
Lim was born in 1933 to Lim Teng Geok and Ang Kee Neo  in Singapore, along Telok Ayer Street, and was the second child in a family that would eventually have 13 children, although one child did not survive the Japanese occupation of Singapore. The Great Depression had a profound impact on the global economy, even in Singapore. The Lims were forced to move to peninsular Malaya in search of a better life when Lim was three years old. Lim and his family eventually settled in Pontian Kechil, Johor, where Lim would spend his childhood.

Lim enrolled in Pei Chun Primary School in Pontian in 1939. It was a time when numerous events leading up to World War II were happening both at home and globally. The Marco Polo Bridge incident had only happened two years ago in 1937, while Lim also recalled in a manuscript that was published posthumously that his father's only brother, heeding the philanthropist Tan Kah Kee's call to arms, had volunteered to fight against the Japanese in China:

""I was only five or six years old then. My uncle always held me and sang anti-Japanese and patriotic songs, like "China will not perish" and "Oh, the beautiful Chinese nation" .""

In 1942, when Lim was just nine years old and in Standard III, schools were forced to close because of the Japanese invasion of Malaya. His family, which used to run a provision shop, were forced to flee to the jungle with their town folks. His family, however, was resourceful. They cleared a piece of land to plant rice and build a wooden pondok (hut), and also raised pigs and chickens.

Post-war years
After the war in 1945, Lim and his family returned to their house only to realise that it had been razed to the ground. Lim's father leased a new plot of land in Kampong Rambah, where he built a new house and restarted his provision shop business. Lim then returned to Pei Chun to complete his primary school education. As with most of his cohort who had to stop school because of the war, he graduated only at the age of 15. As there were no secondary schools in Pontian at the time, Lim's parents had to first get Lim to work temporarily as a shop assistant, and also to get Lim's brother, Lim Chin Kiat, to stop his schooling. He was then able to afford to continue his studies in Singapore at Catholic High School in 1949.

Chinese High School and expulsion
Lim did well enough in his first semester at Catholic High School that, together with an appeal from his father, he was able in 1950 to transfer to The Chinese High School, then the premier Chinese medium school in Singapore. Lim was by then 17 years old, and distracted in his studies by numerous events: the victory of the Communists and the proclamation of the People's Republic of China; the African anti-colonial movement; and the ill treatment of students, particularly of Chinese descent, in Singapore. These were factors which influenced Lim to join the Anti-British League (ABL), an anti-colonial organisation that received instructions from the Malayan Communist Party.

With the support of the ABL, and with his classmate and later political partner, Fong Swee Suan (1931–2017; ), Lim organised a successful boycott of the Chinese junior middle school examinations in 1951. The examinations were deemed pointless as it was primarily meant for students who wanted to further their studies in China, even though all universities were closed to Malayans since the People's Republic of China was established. This attracted the attention of the Special Branch, who held him in custody for a week. When he was released, he was expelled by The Chinese High School.

Involvement with trade unions
The Special Branch would keep Lim under close watch even after his release and expulsion from school. He tried to learn some English at the Eastaff English School, and then worked as a part-time teacher, but under the name of "Mr Yu". Between 1953 and 1954, Lim then became more involved in the unions: he worked as a paid secretary for the Changi branch of the Singapore Bus Workers' Union, then its Paya Lebar branch, and also became secretary in the Malaya Spinning Workers' Union. In 1954, leaders of the newly formed union, the Singapore Factory and Shop Workers' Union (SFSWU), were impressed by his abilities and invited him to the post of secretary-general. Within a year, the membership of the SFSWU grew from a few thousand to about 30,000 members.

Founding of the PAP and 1955 elections
Lim's work in the unions caught the eye of Lee Kuan Yew, who had returned to Singapore from Britain and organised regular secret meetings in the basement of his Oxley Road house which were attended by Toh Chin Chye, S. Rajaratnam and Devan Nair, among others. During those meetings, they drew up a plan to set up the People's Action Party (PAP). Even though Lim was a co-founder of the party, he declined to be on stage during the inauguration of the PAP in November 1954 as he felt his previous police record might be exploited by their rivals and jeopardise the party.

The historic Rendel Constitution by the British was launched in 1954, and allowed up to 25 members to be elected to the Legislative Assembly. Lim was one of four PAP candidates selected to contest in the 1955 election. James Puthucheary, in charge of the publicity for the PAP during the elections, remarked that Lim "was brilliant, and the crowd was spellbound". An attendee at one of the rallies recounted: ""There were 40,000 people, each mesmerised by Lim Chin Siong's oratory. 'The British say you cannot stand on your own two feet,' he jeered. 'Show them how you can stand!' And 40,000 people leapt up—shining with sweat, fists in the air—shouting, Merdeka.""

Lim was elected into the Legislative Assembly as the Assembly Member for Bukit Timah in 1955. Lim was the youngest Assemblyman ever to be elected in Singapore's history, at the age of 22. Lim seemed to be an extremely promising politician, even in the eyes of Lee Kuan Yew. Chief Minister David Marshall recalled that Lee had introduced Lim to him, and said that Lim would be the "future Prime Minister of Singapore".

Hock Lee bus riots
The first of many controversies in which Lim was implicated was the Hock Lee Bus Company riots, which started in April 1955 and ended on 12 May 1955 with four dead, including Chong Lon Chong, a 16-year-old student who was paraded by the rioters for three hours on a stretcher after getting shot.

Hock Lee workers were on strike on 27 April 1955 when the police used force on them, injuring 15 people. In response, Fong Swee Suan, Lim's former classmate at The Chinese High School, and now the leader of the Bus Workers' Union and a PAP member, was quoted in the Chinese newspapers that "there was bound to be bloodshed in a revolution". Students from the Chinese-medium schools also joined the strikes in droves to provide moral support.

Chief Secretary William Goode had suggested that the demand for bloodshed by the PAP was the cause of the violence. Chief Minister David Marshall demanded in the Legislative Assembly that the PAP "purge themselves of the communists", whom he placed at fault for the riots. Lim refrained from commenting at length during the debate, except to state that he would not support the view that was put forth by the British. Lee Kuan Yew also did not state outright that Lim was not culpable, and in a long speech during the debate said that the riots could only have been incited because of the way the workers were treated, and that it was not possible to fight both the colonial masters and communists at the same time. Ultimately, the Legislative Assembly voted overwhelmingly for the temporary closure of two Chinese-medium schools, The Chinese High School and Chung Cheng High School, in the aftermath of the riots.

To safeguard the PAP's reputation, Lee Kuan Yew requested that all members of the PAP central executive committee who were branded "militant and pro-communist" not to contest the next committee election. Lim, Fong, Devan Nair, and Chan Chiaw Thor (those who had the closest links to trade unions) were hence forced to step down.

1956 constitutional talks in London
Although Lim was forced to step down from the PAP central executive committee, he was still part of the PAP delegation in the all-party constitutional conference in London in April 1956. In his manuscripts that were published only posthumously, Lim remembered that the all-party delegation was not aligned in its objective to seek full self-government, and that it was "like a circus". Knowing that Marshall had made an enormous gamble by placing his job on the line in the case the talks failed, his political rivals - particularly from the PAP and the Labour Party - seemed to have given up on helping Marshall achieve his objective.

Marshall's key desire was for the British to hand over the control of internal security to the Singapore government. Lim supported this proposal and made his stand clear during the talks, but the British were concerned that Marshall was too soft and emotional to control the "communist" influence as could be seen from the riots of the last year, and rejected it. Knowing Marshall's gambit, the British had already begun to look to other leaders in the delegation, particularly Lim Yew Hock and Lee Kuan Yew, whom they thought they could work with better. After three weeks, the talks failed and Marshall resigned, handing over the office of Chief Minister to Lim Yew Hock.

1956 Chinese middle school riots
Unlike Marshall, who was very reluctant with the use of force, Lim Yew Hock was ruthless and was keen to show the British that he could control any disruptive influences in Singapore. On 18 September 1956, Lim Yew Hock used the Preservation of Public Security Ordinance (PPSO), which allowed him extraordinary police powers, to dissolve seven organisations and detain seven people, mainly from Chinese middle schools. As public anger became so strong over the arrests, Lim Chin Siong and others launched a Civil Rights Convention, which was Singapore's first civil rights movement. This alarmed the British and Lim Yew Hock, as the Convention was supported by locals of all backgrounds and ideologies at the time and was on the verge of becoming a real force.

On 25 October 1956, Lim Chin Siong gave a speech at Beauty World in Hokkien to an angry audience, urging them to calm down and that their enemy was not the police, but Lim Yew Hock and the colonial masters. Among those who attended the rally were Lee Kuan Yew, Toh Chin Chye and Devan Nair.

Later that night, a riot began after police and protesters clashed outside The Chinese High School, and escalated into an island-wide riot, with 13 deaths. After the riots, Lim Chin Siong and close to 300 others were arrested, apparently because Lim Chin Siong had incited the audience in his speech to "pah mata" ("beat the police" in Hokkien).

At the Legislative Assembly, Education Minister Chew Swee Kee said, "It is significant to note that the Member for Bukit Timah (Lim Chin Siong) at that meeting said that instead of shouting "Merdeka" the people should now shout, "pah mata", which means "beat the police". Is there any doubt whatsoever as to who sparked off the riots?"

Lee, who was present at Lim Chin Siong's speech, did not refute this.

A transcript of the speech by the Special Branch, recently declassified, revealed that Lim Chin Siong had said, "A lot of people don't want to shout "Merdeka"! They want to shout "pah mata". This is wrong. We want to ask them to cooperate with us because they are also wage-earners and so that in the time of crisis they will take their guns and run away."

There are contrasting views to what Lim Chin Siong was trying to achieve during that speech. The view was that Lim Chin Siong was a brilliant orator trying to create a "psychological climate" in which the audience would "go out and take action of their own volition". Another perspective was that Lim Chin Siong was framed, and that Lim Yew Hock and the British had found a golden opportunity to arrest him.

First detention (1956–1959)
Lim Chin Siong was placed under solitary confinement for close to a year, away from his other PAP colleagues, as they were placed in the Medium Security Prison instead. The number of PAP members imprisoned rose in August 1957, when PAP members from the trade unions (viewed as "communist or pro-communist") won half the seats in the PAP's central executive committee (CEC). The "moderate" CEC members, including Lee Kuan Yew, Toh Chin Chye and others, refused to take their appointments in the CEC. Lim Yew Hock's government again made a sweeping round of arrests, imprisoning all the "communist" members, before the "moderates" re-assumed their office.

In early 1958, Lim Chin Siong was transferred to the Medium Security Prison as well. It was in the prison where Lim Chin Siong was asked to endorse a document called "The Ends and Means of Malayan Socialism", which indicated that the detainees were committed to a "free, democratic, socialist and non-communist Malaya". Reflecting on the document in his manuscript, Lim Chin Siong said that although he agreed with the contents in the statement, he felt he signed the document "under duress", and that it set a precedent whereby all political prisoners had to sign written statements prior to their release.

With most of the PAP members labelled "communist" in prison, the British assessed that the concerns of internal security had been successfully allayed. Furthermore, the subsequent all-party delegations (in 1957 and 1958) accepted most of the conditions that David Marshall had earlier rejected, which had led to the failure of the talks in 1956. A fresh round of elections would be held in May 1959, this time for full internal self-government.

The PAP won convincingly, with 43 out of the 51 seats at the polls. With this victory, Lim Chin Siong and his fellow PAP colleagues who were imprisoned were released on 4 June 1959, just a few days after a hastily held CEC elections.

Internal party strife
After Lim Chin Siong's release, he was appointed political secretary to Finance Minister Goh Keng Swee. The PAP central executive committee rules had by then been changed such that only "cadre" members appointed by the party executive could participate in committee elections, ensuring that there would not be a takeover similar to the one in 1957.

1961 Hong Lim by-election

Although the "communist" faction had been frozen out of ever taking over the PAP, other problems had begun to arise internally. Ong Eng Guan, the former Mayor of the City Council, presented a set of "16 Resolutions" to revisit some issues previously explored by Lim Chin Siong's faction of the PAP: abolishing the PPSO, revising the Constitution, and changing the method of selecting cadre members.

Although Ong's 16 Resolutions originated from the left-wing faction led by Lim Chin Siong, that faction had only reluctantly asked the PAP leadership to clarify its position on them, as they still thought that the party with Lee Kuan Yew at the helm was a better alternative than Ong. However, Lee took the stance taken by the left-wing PAP members as a lack of confidence in his leadership. This issue caused a rift between the "moderate" PAP members (led by Lee) and the "left-wing" faction (led by Lim).

Ong was then expelled, and he resigned his Legislative Assembly seat to challenge the government to a by-election in Hong Lim in April 1961, where he won 73.3% of the vote.

Merger issue
The British had earlier tabled a proposition to merge the Malaya, Singapore, and North Borneo territories into a single sovereign country, calling it "the Grand Design". However, Tunku Abdul Rahman, the Malayan premier, had never been very keen on the proposal, as he was concerned that Singapore's majority Chinese population would outnumber the number of Malays and would hence dominate the political scene. Hence, many PAP members and the public were shocked that the Tunku had announced that he was favourable to merger in May 1961, and that Lee and Goh had secretly been in discussions with him since April. The public seemed to view the Tunku's agreement to merger with suspicion: on the surface, it appeared that the circumstances had not changed, yet the Tunku had changed his mind. The Anson by-election became a test of public sentiment towards the PAP - and they failed it, losing the seat to David Marshall in July.

Eden Hall Tea Party and vote of no-confidence
Lim was concerned that, despite the tide increasingly swinging towards him in the political battle, the British might not be keen on a "radical" wing of the PAP taking over the government. To settle this issue, Lim and his colleagues met with the British High Commissioner for Southeast Asia, Lord Selkirk, to understand if the British would continue to work with the government, even if it was not the PAP. The meeting was held at Selkirk's residence, Eden Hall; this became known as the "Eden Hall Tea Party". Selkirk had given a non-committal response that they would abide by the constitution.

Lee interpreted the meeting as one between "British lions and Communist bears", and also as an act of party disobedience. He dramatically tabled a motion of confidence in the government. 13 PAP assembly members abstained from the vote, and were expelled. Around two thirds of the party membership - including Lim Chin Siong - left with them.

The Battle for Merger

In August 1961, Lim and his fellow PAP members who were expelled formed a new party, called the Barisan Sosialis (Socialist Front), with Lim as secretary-general and Lee Siew Choh as chairman. Meanwhile, details on the terms of merger with Malaya had been planned out by the PAP without any other party or public input.

Lim and the Barisan were horrified: under the terms, Singapore residents would effectively become second-class citizens in Malaysia. For the price of having autonomy in labour and education matters, Singapore would:
 * Be under-represented in the Federal Parliament for its population, with just 25 seats;
 * Singapore citizens would not be able to move freely in the other states, unlike other citizens; and
 * The federal government would control internal security matters, even though Singapore had given up the rights above.

Lim and the Barisan stated that such a merger proposal was giving away the rights of Singaporeans to the Federation, instead of trying to preserve them. They were not against merger, but wanted Singapore to enter the federation as equals to other states, such as Penang.

The Barisan demanded that general elections be held for a clear mandate on merger. Instead of general elections, however, the PAP committed themselves to a national referendum for merger. However, rather than a simple yes-no referendum, the PAP developed a referendum with all three choices agreeing to merger but in different forms (see the referendum ballot slip below).

The PAP endorsed Option A in the referendum, and announced that the Barisan's option was B. However, Option B was deliberately misrepresented: in a radio forum, Goh Keng Swee announced that the Barisan proposal would make "nearly half of the present citizens" lose their voting rights. The PAP also ruled the radio airwaves - Lee Kuan Yew gave 12 talks on radio on "the battle for merger", putting his case across and attacking the Barisan for being "communists". However, when Lim demanded for the Barisan to be given equal airtime, they were denied.

Frustrated at how the Barisan's proposal had been misrepresented, Lim called for his supporters to cast blank or spoilt votes during the referendum. However, the PAP was quick in amending the referendum rules at the last minute: it ensured that blank votes would be treated as 'undecided' and the ultimate decision for where they would count would be made by the Legislative Assembly, which they controlled.

On Referendum Day, 1 September 1962, 71.1% of voters chose Option A, while 25.6% cast blank votes. Lim and the Barisan had lost the battle for merger.

Operation Coldstore and second detention (1963–1969)
For months before the referendum, the British, Tunku Abdul Rahman and Lee Kuan Yew had sought a justifiable reason to make a mass round of arrests, including Lim and many of his Barisan Sosialis members and supporters. However, key British figures felt there was none, and believed that the left was behaving constitutionally, and commanded wide popular legitimacy. Yet, the Tunku viewed the Barisan as a communist problem that had to be solved before merger, and Lee was keen on ensuring his political survival through the arrests.

Lim's meeting with A. M. Azahari on 6 December 1962 would change the British's minds. Azahari was a leading Bruneian leftist who would eventually be accused of masterminding a rebellion in Brunei two days later. After that meeting, the British approved the swoop, and within a day the Internal Security Council approved a round of arrests. The operation was given the codename "Coldstore". However, the operation was delayed by almost two months as Lee and the Tunku negotiated over the list of people to be arrested. A list of 169 people was eventually finalised, with Lim's name at the top of the list.

In the early hours of 2 February 1963, Operation Coldstore was carried out. In the end, 113 detainees were arrested, with the rest managing to escape. Lee offered Lim permission to leave Singapore if he wanted to, but he chose to stay to face another incarceration without trial.

Lim never personally recounted in detail his detention experience. The detention lasted six years, even longer than his previous term when he was arrested under Lim Yew Hock's government. It was clear, however, that this detention broke him mentally: ""You are detained for years, until such a time that you are willing to humiliate your own integrity. Until you are humiliated publicly. So much so, when you come out, you cannot put your head up, you cannot see your friends. Alright, then they may release you. It is a very cruel torture.""

The detainees were treated badly. Initially, men were kept in solitary confinement, had no access to the toilet, and were forced to stay in a barren cell except for a small lightbulb on the ceiling and a chamber pot. Detainees were only allowed access to a lawyer more than a month after they were arrested. David Marshall, who conducted an investigation into the conditions of the detention, said that conditions were "radically worse than conditions imposed in the past" by the British colonial government or any previous Singaporean government".

Under such conditions, Lim's health deteriorated. He suffered from depression and high blood pressure. The doctor prescribed medication to keep his blood pressure under control, but it seemed to make him more depressed. Eventually, he had to be moved to the Singapore General Hospital, where he attempted suicide.

Eventually, Lim gave up the struggle in prison and requested to be released. On 21 July 1969, Lim wrote two letters: one addressed to Lee Kuan Yew, and one to Lee Siew Choh. In those letters, Lim stated that he had "completely lost confidence in the international communist movement", and that "communism is not as ideal as what we think it is". In the letter, Lim also resigned from the Barisan Sosialis, marking an end to his political career.

Later years
Lim was released along with Wong Chui Wan, his fiancée and a former colleague in the General Employees Union along Middle Road. They married in 1970, and had two sons, Lim Zi Kuan and Lim Ziyi. In England, he worked odd jobs (at one point selling fruits in London), and also tried to nurse himself back to health. However, his condition remained fragile. In 1980, he suffered a heart attack and underwent a bypass operation in 1982.

In 1984, Lim returned to Singapore with his family and lived in Serangoon Gardens. He died of a heart attack on 5 February 1996.

Legacy
Lim's achievements include co-founding the PAP, galvanising the trade unions against colonialism, and predicting correctly that the marriage of Malaya and Singapore as a single country would be short-lived. Yet, these achievements have generally been overshadowed by the allegations that:
 * He was a communist, and that Singapore could have become communist; and
 * He was the mastermind behind numerous subversive activities against the government.

Debate over communist leanings
There are many contradictions based on historical accounts. The British government in the 1950s had classified Lim as a "communist" in their documents, which have now been declassified. Although Lim claimed that he had not known the Anti-British League he joined had communist ties, the Special Branch's notes of Lim's activities contradicted this, such as Lim giving a talk in commemoration of Joseph Stalin's death to his ABL subordinates. Philip Moore, the deputy high commissioner in Singapore, stated in confidential correspondence in September 1961 that Lim "was a really clever United Front Communist operator". The PAP had also labelled Lim and his faction as "communist". Official records of a meeting between Lord Selkirk, Lim and Fong Swee Suan also stated that when Lim and Fong were asked if they were communists, they "failed to give a clear answer". However, accounts from Chin Peng, the secretary-general of the Communist Party of Malaya (CPM) at the time, did not recall Lim as a key figure of the CPM, and also said that the Barisan was not controlled by them.

Apart from the letters he wrote upon his release in 1969, Lim had also denied consistently that he was a communist. He did so for the last time in 1995, in the final interview he gave before he died:

"'To brand someone as communist at that stage was the best and most convenient way to put him in jail... Of course, my brief period of association with the Anti-British League had become a 'useful pretext' to brand me as a communist. But was it my mistake or the mistake of history that I had become a member of the ABL at that time?'"

Debate over subversive activities
The official narrative suggested that Lim was behind numerous labour disputes that eventually descended into rioting, such as the Hock Lee bus riots and the Chinese middle school riots. After the war, the British became more paternalistic towards labour issues, resisting collective bargaining and seeking to depoliticise the labour movement. Without an avenue to seek redress, workers, who were often exploited and underpaid, had little choice but to fight back through more extreme methods. Lim was arrested and detained on the charge that he masterminded the riots, although the speech he made might not even have been inflammatory.

In one of his last interviews, Lim also said that between 1961 and 1963, he was responsible for "restraining the situation" to ensure that there was no violence following the referendum on merger. It was also noted in the minutes of a Barisan Sosialis meeting on 30 September 1962 that even having been defeated by the PAP in the referendum that they agreed to keep using "peaceful constitutional processes" to win elections. His arrest in February 1963, if legitimate, contradicts his personal accounts and the archived records of the British.

Cultural depictions
In 2010, Meira Chand's historical novel A Different Sky published by Harvill Secker featured Lim getting elected, along with fellow People's Action Party candidate, Lee Kuan Yew, to the Legislative Assembly at the climax.

In May 2015, comics artist Sonny Liew released the graphic novel The Art of Charlie Chan Hock Chye, featuring Lim, his life story and his political rival Lee Kuan Yew. Upon its release, the National Arts Council withdrew a S$8,000 publishing grant as it found that "the retelling of Singapore's history in the graphic novel potentially undermines the authority of legitimacy of the Government and its public institutions".

In July 2015, actor Benjamin Chow played Lim in The LKY Musical opposite Adrian Pang's Lee Kuan Yew, directed by Steven Dexter. The Straits Times' critic, Corrie Tan noted that "the musical's designated anti-hero, Lim Chin Siong, is thankfully not relegated to the ranks of villainy and one-note declarations... the charismatic left-wing leader, with his compelling oratory and rapport with the common man [is portrayed]". During the musical's run, actor Chow published a blog post, later removed, on how the writers had been "extremely open to input" from the Ministry of Communications and Information.

In September 2015, Jonathan Lim's Chestnuts 50 The UnbelYeevable Jubilee Edition live parody sketch show featured a 'bromance' between Lim and Lee.

title: Lim Chin Siong


text:
USS Dixie

USS Dixie has been the name of more than one United States Navy ship, and may refer to:
 * USS Dixie (1893), a ship in commission as an auxiliary cruiser from 1898 to 1899, as a training ship from 1899 to 1902, as a transport from 1903 to 1905 and from 1906 to 1907, and as a destroyer tender from 1909 to 1922
 * USS Dixie (AD-14), a destroyer tender in commission from 1940 to 1982

It may also refer to:

 * USS Dixie III (SP-701), later USS SP-701, a patrol boat in commission from 1917 to 1919

title: USS Dixie


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/In Defence of Marxism

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. Postdlf 23:56, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In Defence of Marxism
While it's mildly refreshing to see an ad for a Marxist site rather than just for yet another capitalist one, WP is not a web directory. -- Hoary 07:03, 2005 Apr 19 (UTC) ....I've never understood what "strong keep" means (or indeed "strong delete"), but anyway I'm certain that WP should keep the article as has been revised since I posted my initial whinge. -- Hoary 07:08, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Committee for a Marxist International XmarkX 17:13, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nonnotable/ad. See also Google: no one links to the Web site the article is about.
 * unsigned comment by user:Msh210. please remember to sign your comments with  .
 * Quite wrong. . And they have a Google page rank of 6/10.---Isaac R 01:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Convert into an article about Leon Trotsky's work In Defence of Marxism. —Seselwa 23:31, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete NN website. Firebug 00:15, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as XmarkX suggests. Both CMI and their web site are notable,but there isn't enough to be said about the web site to justify it having its own article. ---Isaac R 01:03, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Change that to Keep. AndyL's changes turns the thing into a useful article. ---Isaac R 19:35, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, website promo. Megan1967 05:29, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I've replaced the article with a disambig page given the variety of items In Defence of Marxism refers to.AndyL 20:08, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete commie propaganda. Grue 18:56, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Useful disambiguation page PatGallacher 21:13, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)
 * Keep as revised.   [ +t, +c ] 05:28, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Charles Matthews 13:30, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, now that it is revised. Well done, whoever did that! Master Thief Garrett 05:20, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, good disambig. page. --Dcfleck 14:41, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)
 * Keep, serves valuable function. --Headisdead 15:51, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Liberal Party (Norway)

Name of article
There is a discussion on Talk:Liberal Party (Denmark) on moving that page to Venstre (Denmark). I suggest we follow that discussion and act for the Norwegian Venstre in the same way, so when the Danish party is moved, the Norwegian party should be moved to Venstre (Norway) Electionworld 07:03, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually it even more important to move the material of this article, since there was another party (not Venstre) working with the name of Liberal Party in Norway and to aviod confusion with Liberal People's Party (Norway). --Soman 07:52, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 18:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

So why did User:Ssolbergj move this back to "Liberal Party of Norway" in 2007? There are zero references which support the claim that it is commonly called by that name in English. jnestorius(talk) 00:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Venstre - The Liberal Party of Norway - SSJ ☎ 01:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

 * "The Liberal Party of Norway" would appear to be a description rather than a name, since the rest of the article refers to the party as "Venstre" rather than "The Liberal Party". OTOH, This list translates all parties and says "Edited from Aschehoug and Gyldendal's Norwegian Encyclopedia". I don't know whether the translation from Norwegian to English is done by Aschehoug and Gyldendal or the Norwegian Foreign ministry; nor whether the English names are decided by the relevant parties or the translators. This kind of thing needs to be properly sourced.  jnestorius(talk) 18:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

1972 split
What happened to the people who split in 1972? Did they form any party? --Soman 08:02, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

 * They formed the Liberal People's Party (Norway, Old). --Wernher 16:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Venstre logo.svg
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BetacommandBot 04:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

What is the name of the Party?
The name of the party is not Liberal Party (Norway). What is the name of it, and how do Norwegians commonly refer to it (names, abbreviations, and nicknames)? Astounding that the article doesn't contain that absolutely basic information.CountMacula (talk) 21:29, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

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Political position
Despite a virtually universal recognition of the party's position as a centrist party by scholars and mainstream media and politics, User:Helper201 (who's similarly odd edits on numerous other articles have been repeatedly reverted by several other users as well) for some reason insist that the party along with the Christian Democrats be labelled "centre-right", supposedly supported by two news-pieces which doesn't give any explanation for why they are at odds with mainstream political science. The reason as I see it probably is just a sloppy generalisation based on the government overall being centre-right, and then automatically assuming this on all the parties involved (the one source apparantly also claims Progress to be centre-right as well as it generically says "the four centre-right parties"). User2534 (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Greetings, User talk:User2534. I don't see how my edits are 'odd'. My edits are rarely 'repeatedly reverted'.

 * Firstly, please let me make it clear that claiming a party to be 'Centre to Centre-right' does not reject the idea that it is mostly centrist, I accept this is mostly the case, however I claim that these party's also lean to the centre-right to a certain degree. I do not claim to deny they are mostly centrist. However both the Liberal Party and the Christian Democratic Party have in the last two elections formed a centre-right grouping and appear to be in support of a third straight centre-right grouping for the 2017 general election. The formation of three consecutive centre-right groupings is a clear indication towards a leaning in support of that political position, rather than taking a purely centrist, independent stance (or forming a centrist grouping) in the elections. However I will concede on policy there is more weight to the Christian Democratic Party leaning to the centre-right than the Liberal Party. The CDP is a member of the European People's Party, which is clearly a centre-right group, while most Christian parties in Europe and European Christian democratic parties also hold a centre-right position, for example: CDA in the Netherlands, CD&V in Belgium, CDU in Germany, KD in Sweden, CVP in Switzerland, etc. This is because generally Christian parties in Europe tend to lean towards conservative social polices, of which conservatism is generally seen as a centre-right position and the Christian Democrats in Norway also follow a conservative line to a certain extent. Therefore this claim is in support of these two parties to be centre-right, TO AN EXTENT and does not reject the political position of centrist.

 * Also I find it hard to see why an article on the official website of Norway in the UK is not legitimate, this is one of the best sources one could use. This is the site used to get in contact with the Norwegian Embassy and Consulates. Helper201 (talk) 13:39, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

 * If you agree it's mostly centrist I don't understand why you have to make a totally unnecessary controversy with this. Your attempts of comparing the Norwegian Christian Democrats with European counterparts only demonstrate your lack of basic knowledge given that the Norwegian party for instance has a more left-leaning position on economic policy than most of those parties. Both the Liberals and Christian Democrats refused to join the government because they thought it to be to rightist, and there has been major disputes on numerous issues as well as the annual national budgets every year since, even to the point that the Christian Democrats have seriously flirted with the idea of alligning with the Labour Party for the upcoming election. The three "centrist parties" sentrumspartiene (also including Centre-Sp) is one of the major institutions and alliances in Norwegian politics, and they're all open about their primary preference of a new centrist government if they had enough public support. User2534 (talk) 10:26, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

 * You are the one claiming it to be controversial. These are not poor sources and they are not denying the primary position. No, I am aware of the Christian Democrats economic leanings to the left, however they are socially to the right and if credible sources point to an overall position of centre-right, you should leave it as such. Helper201 (talk) 23:10, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Liberal Party (Norway)


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Talk:Treasure trove

Treasure found at sea
The article, as currently written, neglects the important area of treasure trove law as applied to treasure found at sea. MrDroopy 07:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

 * The law of treasure trove does not deal with treasure found at sea. This topic is dealt with by the law of salvage which is a branch of admiralty law. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 16:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

so which is it?
The article begins by suggesting that a find becomes a "treasure trove" when no one else can claim it. Then it goes on to explain the differences between treasure trove and coins that were lost, making it sound like a treasure trove is something you can't keep while salvage is something you can keep. So which is it? Is it found to be a treasure trove when you can keep it, or is it a treasure trove when you can't? There's also mention of it not being a treasure trove if it's less than 50% gold and silver. So then what is it? If you pair this statement with the idea that you can keep salvage but not treasure troves, than that would lead to the reasoning that if you found a cache of copper coins, you can't keep them because they're not as valuable as gold. It doesn't make sense. noit (talk) 02:38, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

 * It would help if you identified which sections of the article you are referring to. The law relating to "treasure trove" varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and different jurisdictions have different definitions of what constitutes "treasure trove", as the "History" section points out. It sounds like you are talking about the "English common law" section. Under the common law (now only applicable to objects found before 24 September 1997), in order for an object to be considered as treasure trove:
 * it had to be more than 50% gold or silver;
 * it had to be hidden by somebody who had an intention to come back to claim it later; and
 * the owner or his or her descendants had to be untraceable (if they were traceable, then the object was not treasure trove and could be claimed by the owner or descendants).
 * If an object amounted to treasure trove, then it belonged to the Crown. However, the finder would usually be compensated for finding the object. If the object did not amount to treasure trove, then the question of ownership depended on the law of finders, which is not explained in detail in this article. Briefly, though, it is not simply a matter of "finders keepers" – the owner of the land on which the object was found may have a claim on it, and the finder is under a duty to try and locate the true owner of the object.
 * It may seem odd that only objects that were made substantially of gold and silver were considered treasure trove, but centuries ago the law of treasure trove in England was not intended to preserve the nation's material heritage but was a way to raise money for the Crown. The Crown was only interested in valuable gold and silver, and not in objects made of base metals like copper, iron and lead, much less pottery and wooden objects. Of course, over time, views on treasure trove have changed, and this eventually led to the enactment of the Treasure Act 1996 which applies to a much wider range of objects. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 09:45, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Thank you, I see that now. I think my American eyes glossed over the word "Crown". The idea that somebody could take it because it's valuable, and they like it, and they're crown, didn't even occur to me. I also thought the rest of the article would be more and more countries, and I didn't scroll. I didn't realize further down were the sections containing modern law. noit (talk) 12:53, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, you're welcome. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 18:48, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

About 7,811 coins
In March 1973, a hoard of about 7,811 Roman coins was found buried in a field at Coleby in Lincolnshire.

Is the word "about" necessary? 7,811 seems like a rather specific number to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Van Vidrine (talk • contribs) 16:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

The Duchy of Cornwall
This article neglects the fact that treasure trove found within the county of Cornwall is the right of the Duchy of Cornwall and not the Crown. Bona Vacantia is the right of the Duchy of Cornwall within the territory of Cornwall. Oll an gwella (talk) 11:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

 * That's the case with all the duchies in England, isn't it? Feel free to update the article if you have reliable third-party references. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 15:46, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

EB1911
The duplication detector indicates that text copied from EB1911 still resides in this article, to reduce allegations of plagiarism and to verify the content the plagiarism guideline gives guidance that attribution to the EB1911 should be given in the References section and that inline citations to the EB1911 article should be included in this Wikipedia article. -- PBS (talk) 15:17, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Treasure trove


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Tan Yuling

Tan Yuling, Noble Consort Mingxian (born Tatara Yuling; 11 August 1920 – 14 August 1942), was a concubine of China's last emperor Puyi. She married Puyi when the latter was the nominal emperor of the puppet state of Manchukuo during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Her given name "Yuling" is sometimes translated into English as "Jade Years".

Biography
Yuling was born to the prosperous Tatara clan in Beijing, her family is a Manchu noble family. Her father Zhaoxu was a high-ranking warlord who administered the area around Beijing and Tianjin. Yuling's two aunts were in the Guangxu Emperor's harem as Consort Jin and Consort Zhen. Tan Yuling lost her parents when she was young, and she and her brother Tan Zhiyuan were raised by their aunt. Even after the Qing Dynasty fell, the Tatara clan continued to be very prosperous, but they changed their names to Tan, to avoid being discriminated for their Manchu ethnicity.

In early 1937, when Tan was still attending a middle school in Beijing, she was chosen to be a wife of Puyi and she travelled to Manchukuo's capital Xinjing (Changchun). On 6 April, she married Puyi in the Xinjing palace and was given the title of Imperial Concubine Xiang.Puyi liked her very much and asked Chen Zengju to teach her how to read Chinese books for six years. She became very close to Puyi after their marriage and in time, she became Noble Consort Xiang and became the manager of the Imperial Harem, as Empress Xiaokemin was not in favour anymore. Yuling reviled the Japanese.

Tan died in 1942 while being treated for cystitis, in less than a day after her Japanese doctor gave her an injection. The circumstances surrounding her death were suspicious because Tan was said to have resented the Japanese for being controlling over Puyi. Kwantung Army staff officer Yoshioka Yasunori (吉岡安則), who was an attaché to the Manchukuo imperial household, once urged Puyi to take a Japanese bride, but Puyi had already married Tan, so he ignored Yoshioka. Yoshioka was said to be unhappy about this. Following Tan's death, Puyi was again pressed by Yoshioka to choose a Japanese spouse, but he refused.

Puyi granted Tan the posthumous title of Noble Consort Mingxian (明賢貴妃) and held a funeral for her in Banruo Temple (般若寺) in Xinjing. After the fall of Manchukuo in 1945, following the Japanese surrender at the end of World War II, Puyi ordered Tan's remains to be cremated and the ashes sent to her relatives in Beijing. Puyi kept a photograph of Tan with him until his death in 1967.

title: Tan Yuling


text:
User talk:SkyNet

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title: User talk:SkyNet


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Talk:Borg-Warner T-56 transmission

Need to include some ratios for Viper and Vette specific tranny's. Maybe an expansion of the differences between the tremec and the BW? Ultrapop1 07:06, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

T-56 vs ZF in C4 Corvette
To the unnamed user who keeps editing the first year for the T-56 in the Corvette to 1992, instead of 1997: The T-56 was not installed in the Corvette in any factory configuration until 1997, when it was set up as a transaxle in the 1997 Corvette. It continues to be used in the C6 Corvette and Corvette Z06 today, in the same configuration. Prior to 1989, the C4 Corvette did not have a proper six-speed; it had a '4+3', which was basically a four-speed with an external overdrive unit. In 1989, the C4 received the ZF six-speed transmission - the T-56 was not even available yet, and the ZF / C4 were designed around each other. It would not have made sense for GM to switch transmissions for no real reason in 1992, when the T-56 became available. This can be confirmed here and many other locations - for example, run a search on Car-Part.com for any Corvette between 1989 and 1996, for a transmission, and select the M.T. option - any case where the junkyard lists details, it will often indicate 'ZF'. Please do not edit the page again unless you can find some verifiable proof that the C4 Corvette was ever shipped with a T-56 instead of a ZF 6-speed. Ayocee 16:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

at first i was against what Ayocee said about the 92-96 vettes not having a T56. i did research on my own and saw beyound a dout that he is correct. the 92-96 vettes got the ZF ZF6 manual transmission while the F-bodies got the T56 when they were upgraded with the LT1s. the Vettes didn't get this until they got LS1's. i guess what the real question is why did the F-bodies with LT1s got T56s while the vettes got the ZF? Ebay is a good website to varify this. just type in 92-96 corvette manual transmission and all sorts of ZF tranny stuff will pop up. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 18:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Any current applications?
I just did a quick overview of things and it looks like out of the T-56's few remaining applications (more a matter of model death than anything else), most have switched to the TR-6060. Is the T-56 still being produced for use in any new vehicles after the end of the 2007 model year? Ayocee 01:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It does look like the the T-56 is being gradually phased out. However, there will still probably be a few vehicles using it after the end of 2007. The Holden Commodore will continue using it into 2008 as far as I'm aware. Since its Pontiac G8 cousin will debut with the TR-6060, Holden may switch over as well eventually but unlikely before late 2008. Likewise, the Ford Falcon continues to use it but there's been no confirmation what the next generation model will use. Also, low volume manufacturer Elfin uses it on the Elfin MS8 Streamliner/Clubman. Since they still persevere with the LS1 V8, the T56 might stay around until the end of time. It might be a good idea to ask your question again next year ;) VectorD 06:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

"No internal changes" when moved from BW to Tremec
I've got nothing hard on hand at the moment but I know I've heard that when they moved from BW to Tremec that some minor changes were made - namely synchromesh materials and a few other minor changes. Do we have any verifiable sources that can confirm or deny this? Ayocee (talk) 17:40, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

i do have good experience with this subject. i bought a T56 (BW)that was used behind an LT1. the problem was that i had an LS1 whcih use the Tremec. i was force to change the input shaft, the bell housing, and the adaptor plate. besides the input shafts being different lengths they are the same internally or everything behind the adaptor plate is the same. i have heard that the BW T56 gears were much harder and could stand more torque than the Tremec T56 from virtually everyone on the subject. Gulielmi2002 (talk) 18:50, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Borg-Warner T-56 transmission


text:
USS Downes

Three ships of the United States Navy have been named Downes, in honor of Captain John Downes.

 * USS Downes (DD-45), a Cassin-class destroyer, commissioned in 1915, transferred to the United States Coast Guard and finally sold in 1934.
 * USS Downes (DD-375), a Mahan-class destroyer, commissioned in 1936 and decommissioned in 1945.
 * USS Downes (FF-1070), a Knox-class frigate, commissioned in 1971 and decommissioned in 1992.

title: USS Downes


text: Category:410s BC births

title: Category:410s BC births