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Flying Scotsman (railway service)

The Flying Scotsman is an express passenger train service that operates between Edinburgh and London, the capitals respectively of Scotland and England, via the East Coast Main Line. The service began in 1862 as the Special Scotch Express until it was officially adopted in 1924. It is currently operated by the London North Eastern Railway.

History
The East Coast Main Line over which the Flying Scotsman service runs was built in the 19th century by many small railway companies, but mergers and acquisitions led to only three companies controlling the route; the North British Railway (NBR), the North Eastern Railway (NER) and the Great Northern Railway (GNR). In 1860 the three companies established the East Coast Joint Stock for through services using common vehicles, and it is from this agreement that the Flying Scotsman came about.

Operation
The first Special Scotch Express ran in 1862, with simultaneous departures at 10:00 from the GNR's London King's Cross and the NBR's Edinburgh Waverley. The original journey took $10 1/2$ hours, including a half-hour stop at York for lunch. Increasing competition and improvements in railway technology saw this time reduced to $8 1/2$ hours by the time of the Race to the North in 1888.

From 1896, the train was modernised, introducing such features as corridors between carriages, heating, and dining cars. As passengers could now take luncheon on the train, the York stop was reduced to 15 minutes, but the end-to-end journey time remained $8 1/2$ hours. Like the earlier carriages built for the service, this rolling stock was jointly owned by the three operating companies, and formed part of the pool known as the East Coast Joint Stock.

London and North Eastern Railway
In 1923, the railways of Britain were grouped into the 'Big Four'. As a consequence of this, all three members of the East Coast Joint Stock became part of the newly formed London and North Eastern Railway (LNER).

In 1924, the LNER officially renamed the 10:00 Special Scotch Express linking Edinburgh and London in both directions as Flying Scotsman, its unofficial name since the 1870s. To further publicise the train, a recently built A1 Class locomotive – at first numbered 1472 and, subsequently, 4472 – was named after the service and put on display at the 1924 British Empire Exhibition.

Due to a long-standing agreement between the competing West Coast and East Coast Main Line routes since the famous railway races of 1888 and 1895, speeds of the Scotch expresses were limited, the time for the 392 mi between the capitals being a pedestrian eight hours 15 minutes. However, subsequent to valve gear modifications, the A1 locomotive's coal consumption was drastically reduced, and it was thus found possible to run the service non-stop with a heavy train on one tender full of coal. Ten locomotives of Classes A1 and A3, which were to be used on the service, were provided with corridor tenders; these avoided engine crew fatigue by enabling a replacement driver and fireman to take over halfway without stopping the train.

During the General Strike on 11 May 1926, the Flying Scotsman was derailed by strikers near Newcastle.

No. 4472 hauled the inaugural non-stop train from London on 1 May 1928, and it successfully ran the 392 miles between Edinburgh and London without stopping, a record at the time for a scheduled service (although the London, Midland and Scottish Railway had four days earlier staged a one-off publicity coup by running a non-stop Royal Scot service from Euston to Edinburgh via Glasgow—399.7 miles). The Flying Scotsman had improved catering and other on-board services—even a barber's shop. With the end of the limited speed agreement in 1932, journey time came down to 7 hours 30 minutes, and by 1938 to 7 hours 20 minutes.

Corridor tenders
The non-stop runs were achieved with a special corridor tender which had an increased coal capacity of nine tons instead of the usual eight. A driver and fireman were able to access the locomotive from the train through a narrow passageway inside the tender tank plus a flexible bellows connection linking it with the leading coach. The passageway, which ran along the right-hand side of the tender, was 5 ft high and 18 in wide. Further corridor tenders were built at intervals until 1938, and eventually there were 22; at various times, they were coupled to engines of classes A1, A3, A4 and W1, but by the end of 1948, all were running with class A4 locomotives. Use of the corridor tender for changing crews on the move in an A4 locomotive is shown in the 1953 British Transport Films' Elizabethan Express, the name of another London-to-Edinburgh non-stop train.

British Rail
In the late 1950s British Railways (BR) was committed to dieselisation, and began devising a replacement for the Gresley Pacifics on the East Coast Main Line. On 6 October 1958, haulage of the service by Class 40s commenced. In 1962 Class 55 Deltics took over, becoming a centrepiece of BR advertising, as the steam-hauled one had been for the LNER.

Under BR, the Flying Scotsman ceased to be a non-stop train, calling at Newcastle, York and Peterborough. It also operated at times beyond Edinburgh. On 1 June 1981, the northbound journey was extended to Aberdeen. The southbound journey commenced from Glasgow Queen Street at 09:05 until 4 October 1982 when the name was transferred to the 07:30 from Aberdeen.

Privatisation
The Flying Scotsman name has been maintained by the operators of the InterCity East Coast franchise since the privatisation of British Rail; the former Great North Eastern Railway even subtitled itself The Route of the Flying Scotsman. The Flying Scotsman was operated by GNER from April 1996 until November 2007, then by National Express East Coast until November 2009, East Coast until April 2015, and Virgin Trains East Coast until June 2018. Since then it has been operated by the government-owned London North Eastern Railway.

On 23 May 2011 the Flying Scotsman brand was relaunched for a special daily fast service operated by East Coast departing Edinburgh at 05:40 and reaching London in exactly four hours, calling only at Newcastle, operated by an InterCity 225 Mallard set. 91 class locomotive 91101 and Driving Van Trailer 82205 were turned out in a special maroon livery for the launch of the service. East Coast said bringing back named trains would restore "a touch of glamour and romance". However, for the first time in its history, it ran in one direction only: there is no northbound equivalent service. This schedule is maintained today. Northbound, the fastest timetabled London to Edinburgh service now takes 4 hours 19 minutes. In October 2015, 91101 and 82205 were revinyled in a new Flying Scotsman livery.

The Flying Scotsman is the only LNER passenger service to run non-stop through Darlington and York. LNER's new "Azuma" units (Class 800s and Class 801s) took over the service on 1 August 2019.

The Flying Scotswoman
To celebrate International Women’s Day on 6 March 2020, LNER rebranded the service the Flying Scotswoman for a month. On 6 March 2020 the service was staffed entirely by women, displayed a special International Women's Day livery and hosted a range of women from a variety of organisations in the rail industry as well as from LNER.

Locomotives
As a major link between the capital cities of England and Scotland, the Flying Scotsman was an extremely long and heavy train, especially in the days before road and air transport became common. As such, it has required very powerful locomotives. Locomotives used to haul (and in some cases, specifically designed to haul) the Flying Scotsman have included:
 * Stirling 4-2-2 'Singles' (GNR 1870)
 * Ivatt Class C1 (GNR 1897), the first British Atlantics
 * Gresley A1 and A3 Class Pacifics (LNER 1922), including the locomotive named after the train
 * Gresley A4 Class Pacifics (LNER 1935), the holder of the steam rail-speed record
 * British Railways Class 40 (BR 1958)
 * British Railways Class 55 Deltic (BR 1961)
 * British Rail InterCity 125 (BR 1976, GNER 1996–2007, NXEC December 2007 – November 2009, EC 2009–2015, VTEC from 2015)
 * British Rail InterCity 225 (BR 1990, GNER from 1996 until 2007, National Express East Coast from December 2007 until November 2009, East Coast from November 2009 to March 2015, Virgin Trains East Coast from April 2015 to June 2018, and London North Eastern Railway from June 2018 to July 2019)
 * Classes 800 and 801 Azuma (London North Eastern Railway from 1 August 2019)

title: Flying Scotsman (railway service)


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Talk:Fountain of Life

There are other possibilities for "fountain of life", I have started the initial article with the illumunated manuscript images and a reference to the books of revelations. It could easily be expanded and reorganized to accomodate other meanings. Stbalbach 00:07, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Details on the Prado piece
The Prado work was found in a mountain of paintings dumped om the nascent Prado in the late 1830s after a Revolution closed the Monasteries. It had essentially been mounted on the wall of the Sacristy of the Monastery of the Parral in Segovia since it's painting, which was redated scientifically in the general review of the attribution of the entire contents of the Prado after some serious misattributions were discovered in the early 1990s: the dendrochronology of the boards it is painted on date the felling of the wood to c1419, which implies the work was done in the early 1430s, at a time when van Eyck is known to have passed through there on a diplomatic mission. The previous attribution to an otherwise unknown follower of van Eyck's in the 1450s, based on the otherwise necesary imputation that it had to have been painted soon after his death, has therefore been corrected: the Prado piece is now recognised to be from his hand, and therefore a pair with The Mystic Lamb, with the sole distinction that the two are on different substrates.

I declare the following paragraphs to be my own Original Research, which has been discussed with Till Holger Borchert and Jonathon Sumption, the world experts on van Eyck and Agincourt, who agree. It so cannot therefore at this point be included in the meme: it may however be noted here.

As a student of the Salazar Chapel which stood on the Rue des Sols in Brussels, erected in 1432-4 at the behest of Pope Eugenius IV, and dedicated to the Eucharist, it is very much in my mind that the Prado work may be a copy or draft of a lost main piece, as it is almost perfectly sized for the altar of the Salazar Chapel. Although the Chapel no longer exists, having been demolished in 1955 as part of the renovation of the centre of Brussels, an exact copy of the building was constructed slightly to the South, which is now the Chapel of the European Commission, on Rue van Maerlandt: both were attached to a convent belonging to the Sisters of the Eucharist, the ArchiAssociation declared to be the "perpetual and universal" home of the Eucharist by Pope Leo XIII. This, however, is as yet unpublished and subjective, and so cannot be included in the meme: I list it here for future reference.

The two works together therefore represent the geometric-cosmological facets of a quadrivium justification, paired with Dufay's L'Homme Armé cantus firmus mass covering the arithmetic-musical facets, reflecting the underlying theology of Jan van Ruusbroec's On the Spiritual Tabernacle, which consolidated the doctrine of the relationship between the Eucharist (the inchoate precursor) and the Last Judgement (the fulfillment of Christ promise of salvation): the relevant text on the Mass is Professor Craig Wright's The Maze and the Warrior. A tunnel, of which the last traces remain under the far end of the Chaussée de Groenendael, connected the convents, also passing under the last of the Order at Watermael.

The main thrust of the argument was formed in a discussion between Jean Gerson and Pierre d'Ailly in the motivation for the Council of Constance in 1414-18, to resolve the Papal Schism of 1379. To achieve that end, they needed to recast the political influence of the Church, inverting the relationship with the 5 secular Kings of the Council, those of England, France, the Holy Roman Empire, Spain and Portugal: thereafter, the Papacy was the Supreme Ruler of Europe. Although the Spanish and Portuguese had not yet recovered their territories sufficiently to have the authority later enjoyed, the French were very much motivated by control of the Avignon Papacy, which came to an abrupt end at Agincourt in 1415: d'Ailly's congratulations to Henry V are recorded in the Gesta Henricus V, the Court Records of the King, which raise the interesting hypothesis that the need to free the Council from French influence was the hitherto unrecognised motivation for the way the campaign was fought, the English suckering the French in by hugging the coast in lands which had been Plantagenate holdings until not long before, a tactic which allowed them easy replenishment of their stores, rather than making a political thrust towards Paris, which would have been the obvious tactic had Henry intended to completely demolish the French: that he inadvertently succeeded regardless is one of the curiosities of history. True, Henry's army was nonetheless weakened by disease, but none the less not so devastatingly so as it would have been had it thrust inland. One must remember in this that the land was already devastated by the waves of plague which followed the Black Death, a reason why The Armed Man was so terribly feared. d'Ailly's biography is in Bernard Scouller's Lives of Four French Prelates, which also places the teenage van Eyck and Dufay in his entourage at the Council.

Technically, the title of the work is Het Levensbron, The Fountain of Life, to correct the mistranslation in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.250.135.238 (talk) 23:15, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Fountain of Life


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doug ramsberg

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 18:13, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Doug ramsberg
Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. This individual is not notable currently. Firebug 00:07, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete speculation. Gazpacho 00:08, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Even when it happens, could presumably be merged with the spaceship article. Meelar (talk) 00:14, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Lack of notability. Delete. --Sn0wflake 01:42, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into article about the spaceship and redirect. Nothing here warrants a seperate article. Mgm|(talk) 07:55, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, vacuous. Charles Matthews 10:55, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, Mcfly85 04:42, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Winning a spaceflight in a lotto drawing is an odd feat, but nothing encyclopedic until the winner takes the trip. -- 8^D gab 06:59, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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User:Revned

Hello. Not much here at the moment. You can look at my recent contributions here.

Check out my web page.

title: User:Revned


text:
File:Valkyrie Profile cover.jpg

Fair use rationale
Rationale for the fair use of this image in the article :
 * No such images have been released into the public domain or under a free license, and a free replacement image cannot be created that would adequately provide the same information.
 * The image is being used for no purpose other than to identify the subject of the article.
 * The image resolution has been significantly decreased from the original, so copies made from it would be of inferior quality.
 * The use of this image neither detracts from the game nor inhibits its salability in any way.
 * Copyright in box art most likely held by Enix/Square Enix

title: File:Valkyrie Profile cover.jpg


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Talk:LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman

Plaque recording the 1989 record for longest non-stop run by a steam locomotive
Can anyone verify that Flying Scotsman has (or had) been fitted with a plaque to commemorate its record 422 mile non-stop run between Parkes and Broken Hill in Australia in 1989? (And cite a reference?) Zzrbiker (talk) 04:13, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * also, the fleet number would have been 4472 in 1988. But I don't know the year range. Dave Rave (talk) 07:09, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Costs
A huge amount has recently been spent restoring it. It would be useful to know how much it originally cost, in both historic and equivalent modern pricing. Can someone oblige? Thanks Speculatrix (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:35, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Speed Record
Before I undo the undo that undid my edit, a couple of points...

The article states as fact that the 4472 achieved 100 mph in 1934. It does not mention that this is still subject to debate - and it is widely considered by experts that the maximum speed was 98 mph. For instance O S Nock stated: ''C.J.Allen clocked two alternative quarter mile speeds of 97.3 mph, whereas the dynamometer car chart showed a marked but rather unnatural peak of exactly 100mph. Allen himself...quoted 98 mph in his log.'' Nock concluded there was as much doubt about 4472's speed as previous claimants to the record. The article should mention this issue.

What does "officially authenticated" mean? With Land Speed and Air Speed records that phrase makes sense eg "The rules for all official aviation records are defined by Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), which also ratifies any claims." But with 4472 there was no independent witness and no independent body to authenticate the claim. Suggest "officially authenticated" has no place in this article. --Pallata (talk) 19:06, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Let’s not Forget the LNER locomotive Mallard at 129 mph, or the GWR City of Truro. Bazdrums (talk) 07:44, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Main photo
Wouldn't it make sense to find a more appropriate photo for the info box? The photo used is from 2003 and shows Scotsman in a livery it never wore: According to the article, the double chimney, banjo dome and smoke deflectors were fitted in BR-times, thus it should be in BR-green, not LNER apple green, and it should wear the number 60103. There should be plenty of recent photographs since the overhaul addressing these issues. Alternatively, the article features historical photos or some decent pictures from 1989 which better match the 4472-number.--GrafLukas (talk) 10:06, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You say "a livery it never wore" - but clearly it did carry that livery, since there is photographic evidence. If your point is that it never carried that livery when in main line service (i.e. between 1923 and 1963), that may be true; but the locomotive has now lasted longer in preservation (55 years) than in main line service (40 years). The locomotive's owners surely have the right to paint it whatever colour they like. It's not the only such instance: LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T no. 42085 was painted Caledonian Railway blue for a period whilst preserved on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway. See also WP:GREATWRONGS. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 11:04, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Redrose64, you are missing the point. You are right: I meant "it never wore in active service". I am not suggesting anything listed under WP:GREATWRONGS. I am merely asking if it would not be more appropriate having another picture as main photo - e.g. something quite more recent. I do not object to other liveries being mentioned in the article and pictures to accompany it. I will try to upload a decent picture I took recently during a visit to Shildon/Locomotion to Commons showing the engine in its current livery and under steam. Perhaps that can be used, then. Any objections?--GrafLukas (talk) 12:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I have taken the liberty of changing the picture now. Hope you like it that way.--GrafLukas (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

LNER 4472 : FLYING SCOTSMAN:
My husband rescued Flying Scotsman when Alan Pegler ran ut of money in America. My husband ran her, and cared for her for 23 years. When Tony Marchignton ran out of money, my husband arranged for the National Railway Museum to take her. I have not looked at Wikepedia before but did the other day to find a lot of inaccuracies. I corrected these inaccuracies and have been the subject of some considerable abuse from people who do not understand that MY sources are simple facts as known by me from conversations with both Alan Pegler and, more importantly, my husband. Quite what these people expect a wife to offer as "sources" other than that whichI did state, I cannot imagine. As my husband died earlier tis year and cannot correct inaccuracies himself, I think it reasonable that his wife sould do so. I am aware now, thanks to someone who lives in Atlanta and cannot possibly know the facts either about my husband or his relationship with the engines he owned! that there is also a considerable amoount of inaccuracy on Wikepedia about my husband himself, not just his ownership of Scotsman. My entries are ALL verifiable should anyone wish to spseak to me or to read the only book that has yet been written about Sir William McAlpine's engines and carriages. I have neither the time nor right now the stamina to go through the pages yet again and re-correct other people's inaccuracies if I think that those who do NOT know the truth are simply going to remove my accurate corrections. Lady McAlpine (Boris is a Labrador) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Borismcalpine (talk • contribs) 00:00, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
 * First, how do we know that you are who you claim to be? Are you the real Lady McAlpine, or a dog? Or somebody else who is pretending? Second, and more importantly, we have certain core policies, including: verifiability, no original research, and neutrality, all of which need to be observed carefully. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 08:12, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Relying on personal knowledge is a problem as the reader can't verify it. There has to be a citation to a published source. But the book mentioned by Lady McAlpine does exist -- Sir William McAlpine: A Tale of Locomotives, Carriages and Conservation, by John Chacksfield, The Oakwood Press, 2009, ISBN 978-0853616884. It has a picture of Flying Scotsman on the cover. Amazon say it's currently unavailable. According to the contents note on Amazon, pages 45-55 cover Sir William's acquisition of Scotsman, and pages 81-85 cover the loco's tours abroad under his stewardship. If Lady McAlpine, or anyone else with access to a copy, could correct any inaccuracies in the article with page-number citations to Chacksfield, and add the book to the bibliography, that would presumably work. Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:50, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * ISBN 978-0853616887 Andy Dingley (talk) 18:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Debate over restoration section
It seems to me this section is a little out of place in the article. There appears to be no debate at all in this section; just some facts on what happened with the LNER black livery. Could this be removed for redundancy or extend to include views there may have been about the restoration? Nathan A RF (talk) 14:50, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I want the engine to be repainted into LNER Apple Green livery.
I want Flying Scotsman to be repainted into its original LNER Apple Green Livery, its original No. 4472 painted on in gold leaf, and the letters LNER on its tender. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7E:4285:3C00:C9C0:E73C:54DD:E188 (talk) 13:28, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6.4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for discussion on how to improve the LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman article. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 21:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Diesel 4472 side by side with Steam 4472
There is a picture of two locomotives numbered 4472 standing side by side at Sydney Central railway station.MountVic127 (talk) 07:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * MountVic127: Are you going to link to the picture? It's probably not necessary to include in this article. Rcsprinter123   (dialogue)  18:28, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I remember seeing the picture, probably in Railway Digest magazine, but I do knot know where it is. That is why a mentioned it in the talk page, to prompt help from someone else who does know. It is a very unusual picture. MountVic127 (talk) 07:08, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 3 October 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 17:51, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

– The loco is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Move the disambiguation page, which was moved without discussion, back to Flying Scotsman (disambiguation). Polyamorph (talk) 06:00, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman → Flying Scotsman
 * Flying Scotsman → Flying Scotsman (disambiguation)
 * Addendum: If there is some convention why this page must be named with the LNER class and number then Flying Scotsman should redirect here and the dab moved back to Flying Scotsman (disambiguation). Polyamorph (talk) 08:05, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * One of the problems of putting the number in the article title is that it keeps changing according to the whim of the owner(s). It is currently 60103, but it is quite possible it could change again next time she gets a repaint. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 11:08, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point. All the more reason to move to Flying Scotsman, its WP:COMMMONNAME. Polyamorph (talk) 11:22, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * One of the problems of putting the number in the article title is that it keeps changing This is why we allow redirects. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 17:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Leave as is. This article is about a specific locomotive, for which we normally title the article by company, class and number, plus name if applicable. See . Also, the title Flying Scotsman is ambiguous, an equal (if not greater) claimant to the title could be the train service between London and Edinburgh, which began some years before the locomotive was named after it; and moreover, is still running. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 17:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose move No, the loco isn't a clear primary topic. There's also the train and of the two, that has clear historical precedence. So disambiguation is needed, and none of these are clearly enough primary to take that place. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:32, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would argue that the vast majority of users searching for flying scotsman will be looking for the loco, not the train service. A simple Google search all top hits are for the engine, not the train service. The service clearly has historical significance but in terms of primary topic it's the locomotive. Polyamorph (talk) 17:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose move. As a lifetime cyclist and fan of the sport, Graeme Obree remains etched in my mind as my primary topic for the term. They even made a film about him, which was titled The Flying Scotsman, not Obree or Graeme Obree. I'd never heard of the locomotive or train, but I'm an American who is not a railroad historian. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:PRIMARYTOPIC isn't interested in what your personal primary topic is, but what is the prevailing primary topic in sources. Would you care to comment on the prevailing topic in available sources? Polyamorph (talk) 06:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure. Logically, all sources covering the topic of bicycle racing consider him to be the primary topic. wbm1058 (talk) 13:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I am talking about searching the term "Flying Scotsman" or "The Flying Scotsman". You will find all those at the top of search engine results refer to the locomotive, because it's the most likely relevant example of the term. Do you have any evidence that I'm in fact wrong and the vast majority of sources relating to that term actually deal with the bicycle racer? Please read WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Polyamorph (talk) 14:26, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment for those unfamiliar with the topic, it's worth noting, as stated in the article, that the Flying Scotsman is known to be "The world's most famous steam locomotive". I would very much appreciate more comments on the prevailing WP:PRIMARYTOPIC as evidenced in the sources, and less of particular editor's personal preferences/favourites.
 * Tom Thumb (locomotive) is the "world's most famous", in the United States. I pulled that up from personal memory; hadn't heard of LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman before this RM. – wbm1058 (talk) 13:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Your personal memory is not a reliable source. It really isn't relevant if you have heard of it or not per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Polyamorph (talk) 14:26, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK, Google tells me it's an express passenger train service operating between Edinburgh and London, powered by an iconic steam engine, which was recently in the news when the Flying Scotsman locomotive crashed into "another train" (apparently not "another locomotive"). But I'm a little confused. The Flying Scotsman train is powered by British Rail Class 800 and British Rail Class 801 – those don't look like iconic steam engines to me. After further review, I agree that the primary topic is the locomotive(s) and train(s) –– perhaps the separate articles on each should be summarized into a WP:broad-concept article covering both in order to mitigate any confusion. Obree's nickname was probably derived from the steam engine. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Pageviews for August 2023, give consistently higher page views for LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman cf. Flying Scotsman (train). In August 2023, incoming clicks were 12.5k for LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman cf. 7.3k for Flying Scotsman (train). It's also interesting to note a much larger number of outgoing views from Flying Scotsman (train) to LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman than the other way around. This confirms my assertion that users are most likely to be interested and searching for the locomotive and therefore is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. I'm open to any alternative evidence based arguments, but I would urge the closing admin or page mover not to give any weight to anecdotal comments. Polyamorph (talk) 14:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Pageviews are just anecdotal evidence. How can you be certain that readers searching for the "locomotive" are searching for the steam engine and not the engines that power the modern high-speed electric train shuttling business people between Edinburgh and London? How can you be certain that readers searching for the "train" are not searching for the tourist train powered by the steam locomotive and accidentally landing on the electric-powered train? wbm1058 (talk) 15:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You don't make an article that averages 15,000 monthly views primary over another that averages 10,000 monthly views. "highly likely—much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined" translates to at least double, if not triple or quadruple, the views. Not just 50% more views. Obree still averages 6600 views/month. The film about him averages 2300 views/month. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Your steam engine doesn't even get half of the total page views of |LNER_Class_A3_4472_Flying_Scotsman|Graeme_Obree|The_Flying_Scotsman_(2006_film)|The_Flying_Scotsman_(1929_film) five possible targets. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:52, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not my steam engine. Page views are not anecdotal, they may not be fullproof but they're indicative of overall trends. As I clearly stated, I was comparing two specific articles and the loco was consistently higher than the train, usually 1/3 more pageviews but with regular spikes with more than double the number of views. It's only really the engine and train the that are of any real relevance here for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, the others rarely get more than a few thousand views a month. Polyamorph (talk) 16:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would support a move to a title like Flying Scotsman (locomotive); LNER Class A3 4472 is far too long and in-the-weeds for casual readers. But I weakly oppose moving this over the dab; it's the most likely target for the term but it's not more likely than all the others put together. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Aviemore accident
For info, the RAIB have opened a [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collision-at-aviemore-station-strathspey-railway? full investigation] into the accident. Mjroots (talk) 13:15, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman


text:
French Flanders

French Flanders (La Flandre française, ) is a part of the historical County of Flanders, where Flemish—a Low Franconian dialect cluster of Dutch—was (and to some extent, still is) traditionally spoken. The region lies in the modern-day northern French region of Hauts-de-France, and roughly corresponds to the arrondissements of Lille, Douai and Dunkirk on the northern border with Belgium. Together, with French Hainaut and Cambrésis, it makes up the French Department of Nord.

Geography
French Flanders consists, mostly, of flat marshlands in the coal-rich regions just south of the North Sea. It comprises two areas:
 * 1) French Westhoek to the northwest, lying between the river Lys and the North Sea, roughly the same area as the Arrondissement of Dunkirk;
 * 2) Walloon Flanders (La Flandre wallonne; Waals Vlaanderen), to the southeast, south of the Lys and now the Arrondissements of Lille and Douai.

History

Once a part of ancient and medieval Francia from the inception of the Frankish kingdom (descended from the Empire of Charlemagne) under the Merovingian monarchs such as Clovis I, who was crowned at Tournai, Flanders gradually fell under the control of the English and then Spanish, becoming part of the Spanish Netherlands and retained by Spain at the end of the Eighty Years' War. When French national military power returned under the Bourbons with King Louis XIV "The Sun King" (1638–1715), a part of historically French Flanders was returned to the Kingdom.

The region now called "French Flanders" was once part of the feudal state County of Flanders, then part of the Southern Netherlands. It was separated from the county (part of Habsburgs' Burgundian inheritance) in 1659 due to the Peace of the Pyrenees, which ended the French-Spanish conflict in the Thirty Years War (1618–1648), and other parts of the region were added in successive treaties in 1668 and 1678. The region was ceded to the Kingdom of France, and became part of the province of Flanders and Hainaut. The bulk became part of the modern French administrative Nord department, although some western parts of the region, which separated in 1237 and became the County of Artois before the cession to the French, are now part of Pas-de-Calais.

During World War II, 'French Flanders' referred to all of Nord-Pas de Calais, which was first attached to the military administration of German-occupied Belgium, then part of Belgien-Nordfrankreich under a Reichskommissar, and finally part of a theoretical Reichsgau of Flanders.

Rich in coal, facing the North Sea, bordered by usually powerful neighbors, French Flanders has been fought over numerous times in the thousand years between the Middle Ages and World War II.

Language
The traditional language of northern French Flanders (Westhoek), related to the Dutch language, is known as West Flemish, specifically, a subdialect known as French Flemish, spoken by around 20,000 daily speakers and 40,000 occasional users. The traditional language of Walloon Flanders (part of Romance Flanders) is Picard (and its dialects, such as or Rouchi). Many schools in this region teach Flemish to schoolchildren, partially in an effort to revive the language.

Culture
In 2008, the success of the movie Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis illuminated this part of France to a wide audience. But lots of Flemish of France think that detroyed the image of the Flemish Language in France.

Sources and references

 * Nouveau Petit Larousse Illustré, 1952.
 * French Flanders
 * Ethnologue Report for West Flemish
 * Flemish in France

title: French Flanders


text:
User talk:DaveKrieger

Welcome to the Wikipedia
I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Foundation issues
 * Policy Library

For more information click  here . You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

Sam Spade 00:10, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:DaveKrieger


text:
User talk:Iseespots

Welcome to the Wikipedia
I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Foundation issues
 * Policy Library

For more information click  here . You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

Sam Spade 00:12, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Iseespots


text:
Talk:Normativity

Normative example
Can somebody add an example. this is jibberish to me. what does it mean in plain english?

 * Normative is when its the right thing or what is supposed to be or be similair to. same latin roots as normal.

 * That was a definition of normatiave, not an example. A good guide is that descriptive statements are like facts or statements which can be disproved, but normative statements are like generalisations or opinions. They cannot be 'proved' or 'disproved', they may only be agreed or disagreed with.
 * An example of a 'descriptive' statement is: "Wikipedia is free."
 * An example of a 'normative' statement is: "Free information is good."

 * This page http://www.ingrimayne.com/econ/Introduction/Normativ.html has good description of normative from the context of economics.

 * I've added some examples in the text of the main article. Thomasee73 (talk) 08:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Example or no example I believe that the Plain English comment needs to be addressed. There's currently too much legalese in the article. --Kvng (talk) 17:49, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

suggested rewrites
aziz@ideayayinevi.com (istanbul)

The term "normative" is a neologism for the non-existen "conceptual" in contradistinction basically of "positive." This is a biassed essay inserting pro-positivist Hume into a place he does not deserve. It must be rewritten according to its place in the totality of the philosophical process.

I think it should be rewritten as "descriptive", instead of "positive", because its more widespread this way and less ambiguous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.224.131.250 (talk) 17:24, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if I've put this in the right place, but I don't see a button for starting a new comment.

Norm, Normal, Normalcy and some related words should include a couple of concepts. One is the statistical definition of normal, meaning "typical" or "modal," or in the greatest number (a plurality or majority.)

It should include a sociological concept relating to the most common practices or beliefs. Commonly, a thing is ethical or unethical in relation to the beliefs and preferences of the greatest number of people (in a region.) Strongly-held attitudes may be opposed by attitudes of other groups, having other standards which they consider normal.

Thus, heterosexuality is often called "normal" because it is the condition or practice or belief of the greatest number. Once a majority believe that homosexuality is not deviant or evil, then it would become "normal" in that sense. Similar statements could be made in regard to racial segregation vs. integration.

It is also statistically normal that people should die or age, because those are universal conditions.

Normal can also refer to perfection, as in a "normal kidney," meaning a kidney without defect. If most 50-year olds have defective vision, that would be statistically normal for them, and the 50-year-old with perfect vision would be statistically deviant, though his vision would also be "normal" with respect to the perfection definition.

Common speech may refer to norms as socially agreed standards, such that it is the norm to accept a certain practice. There is a command element involved, but a greater suggestion of agreement by the greatest number.

As it stands at present, the subsection on Law is redundant on the definition in first subsection in philosophy. I suggest that the content be deleted or substantially rewritten.Thomasee73 (talk) 08:45, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: "International relations" which I added and populated
I added the following in my own words with citation:
 * In the academic discipline of International relations, Smith, Baylis & Owens in their Introduction to Smith, Baylis & Owens (2008)[2] make the case that the normative position or normative theory is to make the World a better place and that this theoretical worldview aims to do so by being aware of implicit assumptions and explicit assumptions that constitute a non-normative position and align or position the normative towards the loci of other key socio-political theories such as political Liberalism, Marxism, political Constructivism, political Realism, political Idealism and political Globalization.

This is my reading and interpretation of this text and I have reservations with my mediation and comprehension of the writer's tenets. I feel the article is stronger with it than without it even though it requires additional citations from other works to balance its view. My inclusion isn't as keen as I would like. 49.3.29.32 (talk) 11:32, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits
I don't have the time to properly address this, but recent edits by User:Quantuminformation concern me in that, at the very least, they are dramatic changes and the new lead begins in an unencyclopedic way. I'm tempted to just revert for that reason but instead I'd appreciate if someone with more time would take a look to verify that these big edits are good ones. --Pfhorrest (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

 * I'm a philosophy phd at princeton so am confident this new introduction is more accurate to the meaning of normative and normativity in academia. If you have concerns about the tone, I'm happy to make some changes. But I intend to rewrite most of this page one way or another as I don't think in its previous state it offered a good encyclopedic introduction to normativity. --quantuminformation
 * I'm mostly concerned about the tone and style, yeah; I saw that you had sourcing which is why I hesitated to just revert. It reads like an essay more than like an encyclopedia article. It looks like you're new to editing Wikipedia so I'd suggest mimicking the style of other articles and reading the manual of style for more specific guidelines. Wish I had more time to give more specific constructive criticism myself but I'm too swamped with life these days. (Also, remember to sign your talk page edits with four tildes (~) which automatically puts the link to your username and the timestamp and everything, like you see here). Glad to have someone else editing philosophy articles here at the wiki. :) --Pfhorrest (talk) 06:18, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I immediately noticed these issues, as well, . I have largely restored the lead as of this version by, though I have also largely retained 's changes after removing some problematic content and a reference to a source that does not really talk substantially about the subject., I appreciate your interest in contributing to Wikipedia; however, your writing very different from the sort of tone and style that is used in Wikipedia. To better understand how to speak in WikiVoice, please read our documentation on how to write better articles and our style guidelines on the lead section of articles. Perusing some of Wikipedia's Featured articles may also help with understanding how articles are frequently written on Wikipedia. While I have no reason to believe that you are not a competent and astute writer, writing for Wikipedia is probably unlike anything you have ever done, not least because this is a particularly alien environment for anyone coming from an academic context.On the latter point, you may find the essays on expert editors and Wikipedia's relationships with academic editors to be informative. Also, if you haven't already, I recommend exploring Help:Introduction and Help:Getting started. If you need help with anything, visit the Teahouse or help desk; alternatively, just ask me on my user talk page. I understand that Wikipedia's documentation is labyrinthine, so you are likely to learn more about the norms through bold editing and cycle that usually follows (like now). Nonetheless, if you want to minimize error during your trials, taking some time to familiarize yourself with that labryinth will likely help. —Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 23:59, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Normativity


text:
Talk:Sound Recorder (Windows)

Should the Windows 10 version be separate from the Win32 program?
to explain, view Bing maps and Windows Maps. Dre~ (talk) 16:05, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi. Please see WP:SIZERULE. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 14:15, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Appearance
Somebody should look for looks of the older versions of Sound Recorder. Also, the article needs some expansion. --SuperDude 00:14, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Older versions of Sound Recorder don't look significantly different from the XP version. The article might need some expansion; that's why it has a stub notice. android↔talk 01:12, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, well I created the article and added the images. Many previous versions of Sound Recorder have very little difference in looks (apart from the difference between the title bars at the top). If you do have a previous version of Windows (not XP) then please feel free to go into Sound Recorder and upload the image and show it on the Talk page. You'll see it will be no different.
 * I found a Win95 shot, I'll add it. Shandristhe azylean 15:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You found, or took the shot? hopefully you have rights to release it, although the content shouldn't be an issue. but if the image was taken by somebody else, and put here w/o probably best to re-shoot it. --PidGin128 from 65.190.216.161 (talk) 09:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Memory Req.
Isn't it supposed to be "less than 2GB of physical memory"? --89.180.29.211 19:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably not, since 2GB was luxurious when XP was released. [and heretical when 95 was current]. Also it may not strictly be necessary to remove RAM [ which may not be feasible], you can soft limit XP's ram with a boot.ini flag, although the syntax escapes me atm. --PidGin128 from 65.190.216.161 (talk) 09:20, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Vista
Seems the page needs some Vista relevent info to go with the screenshot. The sound recorder works differently in Vista.--72.24.86.95 04:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sound Recorder icon.JPG
Image:Sound Recorder icon.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 07:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Found way to make Vista Sound Recorder record .wav files
Typing "%SystemRoot%\system32\SoundRecorder.exe /file outputfile.wav" in the target box on the properties window for the Sound Recorder shortcut will make Sound Recorder save files as .wav files. Could someone running Vista verify this?Vista--99 02:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:XPSndRecInVista.png
Image:XPSndRecInVista.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:39, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sound Recorder.PNG
Image:Sound Recorder.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sound recorder 95.png
Image:Sound recorder 95.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Where can I find Sound Recorder? Someone should add it to the page..

I thought "Wikipedia is not an instruction manual"
So why all this minutiae about command-line parameters? 86.168.252.86 (talk) 19:08, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

 * And for that matter esoteric dodges to extend the recording time of pre-2007 versions of Sound Recorder. 91.125.131.101 (talk) 18:51, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Removed content from the lede
I removed the following content from the lede: The Vista version can record for a longer duration but contains fewer options, cannot play back recorded sound, and when a person stops the recording, the computer wants to save the sound into a WMA.

Many alternative utilities are available for download, including the open source tool Audacity. Please see WP:LEDE. Anyone is welcome to incorporate the removed material into the article in accordance with our policies. Thanks, RJaguar3 | u | t 00:04, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Choice of image
Hi

First, a "thank you" to who uploaded a Windows 10 image of Voice Recorder.

I'd like to discuss whether it is appropriate to put the image into the infobox as the default image. Going over the edit history, I see has written: "Reverted uncermonious take over of the article subject, making Voice Recorder the hero." That made me think: How much material about Voice Recorder is there in the article? Answer: One line. How much material is there about Sound Recorder? The whole article. So, IMHO, the Voice Recorder image cannot be the default image.

But I'd like to hear other people's choice and their rationale.

Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 07:30, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Thank you for raising the question. Sorry for editing rashly, but here's my two cents as to why I had moved the page. In other articles Windows Defender is treated as a direct successor to Microsoft Security Essentials and the new UWP versions of Calculator, Sticky Notes, and Windows DVD Player are treated as direct successors to the Win32 versions, which are not included in Windows 10. In the first case they share the same code base, but in the other cases they don't; what they all have in common is that they directly replace the functionality of their predecessors.

 * According to my understanding, Voice Recorder has largely the same functionality, despite an entirely different interface, and acts as the direct successor to Sound Recorder, which is likewise absent in 10. With other articles on apps that have name changes, the most recent name is typically used.

 * Thanks, Onecatowner (talk) 18:11, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

 * What you said so far is completely correct, . But, you must be mindful what message you are giving the reader. Voice Recorder is a new app; a successor, not a new version. It has nothing in common with the Sound Recorder except its overall purpose. It has a different UI, different file format, different storage location, different servicing policy (Windows Store, not Windows Update) and even a different name. Almost nothing that the article says (except one or two sentences) can be assumed to be correct about Voice Recorder. But when you change the infobox image, you are in effect saying: "Hey people! Everything you read in this article is about what you see in this image!" That's wrong.

 * The same thing is not correct about, say Sticky Notes. It has the same functionality, same user data storage behavior, even the same name. You can safely write "Hey people! Everything you read in this article is about what you see in this image!" Almost the same thing is correct about Calculator. Windows Defender adopted a lot of MSE code but had a vastly different background; there was so much unique things to write about these two, so they have different articles. (WP:SIZERULE) Windows Defender in Windows 8, however, didn't initially have NIS and had added an ELAM to Windows that MSE didn't have.
 *  Fleet  Command ( Speak your mind! ) 08:04, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Addendum: Does "dark mode" refer to Windows 10 dark theme which is still in beta stage?  Fleet  Command ( Speak your mind! ) 08:27, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 22 December 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 05:31, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Sound Recorder (Windows) → Voice Recorder (Windows) – As the article states, the Windows 10 version of this application is named Voice Recorder. I request a page move due to accuracy. – Batreeq ( Talk ) (Contribs) 05:41, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:33, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Maybe so but older versions of the program are not called "Voice Recorder" so perhaps the current title is good enough? Sak ura Cart elet Talk 05:58, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:34, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The same could be said about File Explorer, which covers the old Windows Explorer and Hotmail, MSN Hotmail, and Windows Live Hotmail redirecting to Outlook.com. The current title is inconsistent with the naming conventions of the others. I support the renaming of the title. – Batreeq ( Talk ) (Contribs) 07:01, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Did you even read the article? There is not three sentences about Voice Recorder in it. Funny how editing in Wikipedia has become just as low-quality as Microsoft software development: Highjacking names or new apps/articles with minor visual changes.  Fleet  Command ( Speak your mind! ) 08:29, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I've expanded the article to include seven sentences that discuss Windows 10's Voice Recorder, but honestly, just how much info can be written on such a simple app that doesn't even have settings? Regards, – Batreeq ( Talk ) (Contribs) 18:58, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You are right. Expecting too much from you is unethical. — Fleet  Command ( Speak your mind! ) 05:12, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support No point in using an outdated name. I don't get what people are on about.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:23, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose for now, per . It is totally okay to have articles on old versions (with or without different names). Examples: Firefox 3.0, Microsoft Office for Mac 2011 or .NET Framework. We don't have an article for "Microsoft Office for Mac 2016", "Firefox 56" or ".NET Core", because we don't have enough contents. This article has 98.7% contents on Sound Recorder, 1.3% on Voice Recorder. Now, in case of File Explorer, it is truely a mere name change and everything said about "Windows Explorer" holds true for it. But Voice Recorder is a totally new app. None of the things said about loopback device, recording sources, size restrictions, bitrate conversion, etc. holds true for it. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 11:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Along with the renaming of File Explorer, significant changes were implemented, such as the addition of the ribbon and in Windows 10, redesigned icons. I've expanded the article to include more information on the Windows 10 Voice Recorder. I quote myself: "... but honestly, just how much info can be written on such a simple app that doesn't even have settings?" Regards, – Batreeq ( Talk ) (Contribs) 18:58, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, . Look, adding a sentence that repeats what the last sentence said isn't expansion of the article. You added a full "It does not offer any settings that allow this to be changed" while you could have accomplished this by adding "only" to the previous sentence. Also adding padding which makes the article look lengthier does not increase its byte count. When you feel obliged to improve the article in a hurry, so as to rescue your move request, the result won't be good. In all the probability, you might get a reversion too. I say let the request fail (or close it yourself) and expand the article at your own leisure.  But most importantly, I do not understand the obligation to rename articles or create new ones the moment Microsoft releases something utterly worthless that has no impact. When You confess that "just how much info can be written on such a simple app that doesn't even have settings?", it is a clear sign that both renaming and writing a new article are wrong. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 06:31, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose, should be a separate article instead, similar to how we have separate articles for Windows Photo Viewer and Microsoft Photos.  Warren -talk- 15:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As the article Windows Photo Viewer states, it is still available in Windows 10 by performing tweaks. Sound Recorder cannot be restored. :) Regards, – Batreeq ( Talk ) (Contribs) 18:58, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. What the hell I was thinking? They are essentially the same thing. —Codename Lisa (talk) 15:19, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. I am overturning my "oppose" per 's defense above. Indeed, "just how much info can be written on such a simple app that doesn't even have settings?" And let's face it, Sound Recorder has a colorful history of being re-written from scratch, each time changing the user interface. I didn't realize this fact because this article used to have images showing those user interfaces.  Fleet  Command ( Speak your mind! ) 05:12, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak Support At first I thought that it would be best if there were separate articles for the two, but it's essentially the same app with a different name. BytEfLUSh Talk 01:38, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Major interface changes
The article (and my own WP:OR) states that the interface was unchanged until Windows Vista. So, the first major interface change occurred in Vista Sound Recorder, right? It might have been the second interface iteration of SoundRec, but that's not the same thing. Either the screenshot caption is wrong, or the article is wrong. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious and following WP:BRD - I may be entirely wrong. BytEfLUSh Talk 05:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi. :)
 * Didn't at some point they get rid of that infernal MCI interface that came with Windows 3.1?
 * Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 05:57, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, but would that qualify under major interface change? I might fire up Win 3.1, but again - it'd be OR. Lemme check the sources. :) BytEfLUSh Talk 06:00, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, in five minutes of searching, nothing comes up. However, MCI is an API used to draw the controls, and I think that the screenshot provides an example of the User Interface which hasn't really changed much since Win 3.0. Right now, article says Its user interface and feature set saw very little change until Windows Vista while the image caption reads second major change in Vista. We should settle on one of those. BytEfLUSh Talk 06:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. We call it the first major change.
 * Alternatively, I can ask at technical forums.

 * Just for the record, I know MCI itself is an API. But... let me make myself clear with an anology: A couple of years ago, we had users who run into Intel Management Engine Interface (I-MEI), and mistook it with Intel Management Engine (I-ME). So, they read the I-ME description, thought it was a liability and and disabled their I-MEI in their Device Manager, not realizing that I-MEI only regulates power consumption and advanced CPU features. I could first try and find out the actual name of what I referred to as "infernal MCI interface", then go look for a source for it. But then again, I think you right: Its removal might not have been a major change; just a change.

 * Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 06:20, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be right ; well, I do want to be right, but if I'm not I want to be corrected so that I can learn something. :) Interface did change after Win 3.1, indeed, but IMHO those were small-scale changes from the user's perspective - nothing like the change from XP to Vista, or from 7 to 10 (never used Sound/Voice Recorder in 8, so I don't know about that). We just need to keep the article and image captions relatable. Oh, and I understand your analogy fully well - that's exactly the reason to make it simple for our readers. Think of readers as users... Yeah, better not. :( just kidding, I would never think of WP readers as users <b style="font-family:courier;box-shadow:2px 1px 4px #888;border:1px solid #666;padding:0 6px;background:linear-gradient(#fff,#ddd);color:#071;border-radius:6px">BytEfLUSh</b> <sup style="margin:0 2px">Talk 06:36, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Note to self: do not edit Wikipedia after having too many drinks. Thank you for reverting my last edit, I hope I didn't come across as too stubborn here. :) <b style="font-family:courier;box-shadow:2px 1px 4px #888;border:1px solid #666;padding:0 6px;background:linear-gradient(#fff,#ddd);color:#071;border-radius:6px">BytEfLUSh</b> <sup style="margin:0 2px">Talk 09:18, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi again. :)
 * I assure you, you are one of the most collegial editors I have ever seen. You made a good point, which was fine and partly obscure.
 * Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 09:31, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 25 March 2023
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved.  EdJohnston (talk) 19:50, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Voice Recorder (Windows) → Sound Recorder (Windows) – Program was renamed back to Sound Recorder with the release of Windows 11. Included info in the article under History with source. MikeM2011 (talk) 23:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Support - This article was created as Sound Recorder, and the windows 10 version is actually an exception to the historical naming (in fact, it might even be considered a separate app, not an iteration on past versions). The prior move was probably ill-advised in hindsight. -- Netoholic @ 06:44, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

title: Talk:Sound Recorder (Windows)


text:
William Lynch speech

The William Lynch speech, also known as the Willie Lynch letter, is an address purportedly delivered by a William Lynch (or Willie Lynch) to an audience on the bank of the James River in Virginia in 1712 regarding control of slaves within the colony. In recent years, it has been widely exposed as a hoax.

The letter purports to be a verbatim account of a short speech given by a slave owner, in which he tells other slave masters that he has discovered the "secret" to controlling black slaves by setting them against one another. The document has been in print since at least 1970, but first gained widespread notice in the 1990s, when it appeared on the Internet. Since then, it has often been promoted as an authentic account of slavery during the 18th century, though its inaccuracies and anachronisms have led historians to conclude that it is a hoax.

Text
The reputed author, William Lynch, identifies himself as the master of a "modest plantation" in the British West Indies who has been summoned to the Virginia Colony by local slaveowners to advise them on problems they have been having in managing their slaves.

He briefly notes that their current violent method of handling unruly slaves – lynching, though the term is not used – is inefficient and counterproductive. Instead, he suggests that they adopt his method, which consists of exploiting differences such as age and skin color in order to pit slaves against each other. This method, he assures his hosts, will "control the slaves for at least three hundred [sic] years." Some online versions of the text attach introductions, such as a foreword attributed to Frederick Douglass, or citations falsely giving Lynch's name as the source of the word "lynching".

The text of the speech has been published since at least 1970, and is often published with the title "The Making of a Slave". It appeared on the Internet as early as 1993, when a reference librarian at the University of Missouri–St. Louis posted the document on the library's Gopher server. The librarian later revealed that she had obtained the document from the publisher of a local annual business directory, The St. Louis Black Pages in which the narrative had recently appeared.

Though eventually convinced the document was a forgery, the librarian elected to leave it on the Gopher server, as she believed that "even as an inauthentic document, it says something about the former and current state of African America", but added a warning about its provenance.

The text contains numerous anachronisms, including words and phrases such as "refueling" and "fool proof" which were not in use until the early 20th century, while historian Roy Rosenzweig noted the divisions emphasized in the text – skin color, age, and gender – are distinctly 20th-century in nature, making little sense in an 18th-century context. Historians, including Rosenzweig and William Jelani Cobb, have concluded that the William Lynch speech is a modern hoax.

William Lynch
Forewords attached to some online versions of the speech give the narrator's name as the source of the terms "lynching" and "Lynch law", even though the narrator rejects lynching. A man named William Lynch did indeed claim to have originated the term during the American Revolutionary War, but he was born in 1742, thirty years after the alleged delivery of the speech. A document published in the Southern Literary Messenger in 1836 that proposed William Lynch as the originator of "lynch law" may have been a hoax perpetrated by Edgar Allan Poe. A better-documented early use of the term "Lynch law" comes from Charles Lynch, a Virginia justice of the peace and militia officer during the American Revolution.

Popular references

 * Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan quoted the speech at the Million Man March in October 1995, making the speech better known in the process. He later cited Willie Lynch's scheme as an obstacle to unite African Americans in his open letter regarding the Millions More Movement in 2005.
 * The speech was quoted during the protests surrounding the first inauguration of George W. Bush.
 * Ving Rhames's character in the 2005 movie Animal is a gangster who is sent up for a robbery. During his time in prison he meets an activist from Malcolm X's movement, who introduces him to the works of Malcolm X and the William Lynch letter. After deciding to get out of that mindset, he struggles to pull his son out of the same life that got him two prison strikes and tries to get his son to read the Lynch letter.
 * Denzel Washington's character quoted extensively from the speech in a scene from the 2007 movie The Great Debaters. This is an anachronism, as the movie is set in the 1930s, nearly 40 years before the letter was "discovered".
 * Hip-hop artist Talib Kweli of the rap duo Black Star references the speech in the song "RE:DEFinition" from their critically acclaimed album Mos Def & Talib Kweli Are Black Star: "Still more blacks is dying, kids ain't living they trying, 'How to Make a Slave' by Willie Lynch is still applying"
 * Reggae artist Tarrus Riley references Willie Lynch in the title track to his 2006 Parables album, System Set (Willie Lynch Syndrome.)
 * Hip-hop artist Xzibit refers to Willie Lynch in his 2012 song "Napalm" from his album Napalm: "Still suffer from the ideology of Willie Lynch."
 * Hip-hop artist Kendrick Lamar refers to Willie Lynch in his 2015 song "Complexion (A Zulu Love)" from his third album To Pimp A Butterfly: "Let the Willie Lynch theory reverse a million times."
 * Raekwon from the hip-hop group Wu-Tang Clan refers to Willie Lynch in the group's 2014 song "A Better Tomorrow (2014)": "And that's the Willie Lynch tactics that separated the masses. Taught us all to think backwards."
 * Queens rapper Nas says "Willie Lynch is a myth" in his 2018 track "Not For Radio" off his 12th studio album Nasir.
 * British rapper Durrty Goodz released a track called "Willie Lynch Theory" in 2019.
 * Berkeley, California rapper Lil B released the four-part track "Letter to Willie Lynch" in 2020 responding to the speech and the ramifications of the Willie Lynch mindset in 21st century America.
 * Hip-hop artist Headie One refers to Willie Lynch in the 2021 song "Don't Judge Me" featuring FKA twigs : "I don't know why me and them oppers started beefin'. Do I blame me, or the Willie Lynch theory?"

title: William Lynch speech


text:
Global Assembly Cache

The Global Assembly Cache (GAC) is a machine-wide CLI assembly cache for the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) in Microsoft's .NET Framework. The approach of having a specially controlled central repository addresses the flaws in the shared library concept and helps to avoid pitfalls of other solutions that led to drawbacks like DLL hell.

Requirements
Assemblies residing in the GAC must adhere to a specific versioning scheme which allows for side-by-side execution of different code versions. Specifically, such assemblies must be strongly named.

Usage
There are two ways to interact with the GAC: the Global Assembly Cache Tool (gacutil.exe) and the Assembly Cache Viewer (shfusion.dll).

Global Assembly Cache Tool
gacutil.exe is an older command-line utility that shipped with .NET 1.1 and is still available with the .NET SDK.

One can check the availability of a shared assembly in GAC by using the command: gacutil.exe /l

One can register a shared assembly in the GAC by using the command: gacutil.exe /i

Or by copying an assembly file into the following location: %windir%\assembly\ Note that for .NET 4.0 the GAC location is now: %windir%\Microsoft.NET\assembly\

Other options for this utility will be briefly described if you use the /? flag, i.e.: gacutil.exe /?

Assembly Cache Viewer
The newer interface, the Assembly Cache Viewer, is integrated into Windows Explorer. Browsing  (for example,  ) or , displays the assemblies contained in the cache along with their versions, culture, public key token, and processor architecture. Assemblies are installed by dragging and dropping and uninstalled by selecting and pressing the delete key or using the context menu.

With the launch of the .NET Framework 4, the Assembly Cache Viewer shell extension is obsolete.

Example of use
A computer has two CLI assemblies both named AssemblyA, but one is version 1.0 and the other is version 2.0. Since it is required that both be compiled to a file named AssemblyA, they cannot exist in the same directory within the FAT32 file system. Instead, the virtual file system of the GAC can be used by programs that need to use each version of the assembly specifically.

Implementation
The GAC as a construct does not actually exist within the Windows OS. It is implemented and managed by the CLI. The folders within %systemroot% named assembly and Microsoft.NET\assembly (for .NET 4.0) contain all globally available assemblies with managed filenames so that the version and public key tokens can be included. Each version can therefore exist within the same location and be called without requiring subsequent versions to preserve code entry point locations as usual. Windows Explorer allows the drag-and-drop installation of assemblies into this folder only if they would otherwise be permitted to be installed from the command line.

A calling application may specify a version of an assembly when referencing it, so the run-time can simply refer to the filename to use the correct one.

Pitfalls
The Global Assembly Cache mechanism helps to avoid older DLL hell, but it still has some drawbacks, such as:
 * By default, applications will only run with the version of the .NET Framework used to compile it, which can cause the application to fail on machines with newer versions of the .NET Framework installed — even when the application would normally run properly with the newer version.
 * It is sometimes necessary to use conditional compilation if some of the core .NET calls (used in the application) are only supported for some versions of the framework.
 * .NET applications that rely on native code risk incompatibilities, even with the GAC mechanism.
 * Every assembly that is added to the GAC must be strongly named. The process of making an assembly "strongly named" can be quite painful in some situations. For example, if an assembly depends on another assembly that is not strongly named, it cannot be registered in the GAC. In cases where the code of the third-party assembly is not in the programmer's possession, transforming the assembly to be strongly named can in fact be impossible.
 * Browsing for files using standard Windows APIs doesn't allow selection of DLLs located under the "assembly" folder when Explorer is showing the user-friendly view of the GAC.

title: Global Assembly Cache


text:
Coca-Cola Cherry

Coca-Cola Cherry (originally marketed and still commonly referred to as Cherry Coke) is a cherry-flavored version of Coca-Cola. It is produced and distributed by the Coca-Cola Company and its bottlers in the United States and some international markets.

History
Long before its official introduction in stores in 1985, many diners, drugstore soda fountains and movie theaters dispensed an unofficial version by adding cherry-flavored syrup to Coca-Cola.

The Coca-Cola Company first began testing its official Cherry flavored version of Coke along with other flavors on visitors to the 1982 World's Fair in Knoxville, Tennessee. Following further tests in various markets, Cherry Coke then entered mainstream production in the U.S. during the summer of 1985. Cherry Coke was the third variation of Coca-Cola at that time – the others being regular Coca-Cola and Diet Coke – the first flavored Coke. Cherry Coke was released nationally around the same time as New Coke, the controversial reformulation of original Coca-Cola, and gained significant market share when that product was widely (but not entirely) discontinued in the early 1990s. The drink was renamed as Coca-Cola Cherry in 2005.

The Coca-Cola Company introduced other flavored Coke variants, beginning with Vanilla Coke in May 2002, later followed by lime, raspberry, lemon, black cherry vanilla and orange variants. Many of these are currently only sold in overseas markets and/or are microdispensed through Coca-Cola's Freestyle vending machines.

International distribution
Coca-Cola Cherry has been distributed in a number of different countries. Currently, in addition to the U.S., the drink is available in Sweden, Albania, China, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, Russia, Finland, Germany, Belgium (only in cans and 1-litre bottles), Denmark, France, Hungary, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, Latvia, Lithuania, South Africa, South Korea, Bulgaria, Greece (only in cans), Romania and Peru. It is also available in Japan, where it is still known as Cherry Coke. Until recently it was available in Ireland only through British pharmaceutical chains such as Boots and Superdrug; however, it returned officially to the country in 2014. In New Zealand, Coca-Cola Cherry can be found in some supermarkets (usually imported from the UK or US). In the past, the product has been distributed in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Colombia, Russia, Spain, Ukraine, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines, and Israel. The Australian version was released between 2003 and 2004 and was a different formula to the US version. It is no longer bottled in these countries, although the U.S. product is imported by some Canadian convenience stores near the Canada–US border, as well as by IGA, Costco and specialty retailers in Australia. It was reintroduced in all Canadian grocery stores in 2016. In Sweden it is available at different grocery stores. The grocery stores source import from the United States and the self-produced Coca-Cola Cherry from Coca-Cola Enterprises Sweden. In Norway, Coca-Cola Cherry is available at select stores.

Since January 2011, Coca-Cola Cherry is also available in Switzerland, where it is distributed by Coop. Since July 2013 Coca-Cola Cherry is available in Croatia, Romania and Spain. It returned to Canada by the 2013, 2014, and 2015 holiday season in cases of 24 cans at Costco stores for the two former, and general retail in the latter. It featured the same flavor and formula as the United States flavor, with a slightly edited, bilingual version of that country's can design. In 2014, it was featured as one of the last major attempts by Target Canada in Ontario to gain market share before announcing its closing in January of the following year. It has been mentioned by Target Canada itself that Cherry Coke was the number one requested grocery request by shoppers.

In late 2014, it was introduced only in cans in Uruguay.

Coca-Cola Cherry returned to Canada once again in the summer of 2015 and 2016 as part of the "Share a Coke" campaign. Cherry Coke, in flats of 24 cans, have recently been available at Safeway, Sobeys, and Loblaws-owned stores across Canada with markings indicating production at the Brampton, Ontario bottling facility.

Coca-Cola Cherry returned to Brazil during the 2016 Summer Olympics. Originally available in certain markets in the country, availability of soft drink has expanded to other regions; while Cherry Coke has been relaunched, Vanilla Coke has also been launched.

Packaging and marketing
Packaging for Coca-Cola Cherry differs greatly from country to country. Coca-Cola has altered the logos and label designs in the U.S. for Coca-Cola Cherry several times since it was introduced in 1985. In most areas, the current can and bottle label designs are based on the standard Coca-Cola label in a pink or purple hue, often with images of cherries.

On February 7, 2007, Coca-Cola launched a new campaign for the Coca-Cola Cherry brand in the U.S., resulting in a significant redesign of the product's label. American rapper and record producer Jay-Z was chosen to be the spokesman and played a part in designing the new can graphics. A new diet version, Coca-Cola Cherry Zero, was also introduced. The original Diet Coke Cherry had still remained available in 12-packs up until 2018 when it was replaced with Diet Coke Feisty Cherry. These designs remained in place until early 2011, when a cleaner design (closer to the label designs used overseas) was introduced.

As part of Coca-Cola's ongoing "One Brand" marketing campaign, a new U.S. packaging design for Coca-Cola Cherry was introduced in January 2019. The new packaging follows the design principles already employed in the United States for Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola Zero Sugar, and Coca-Cola Life. The word "Coca-Cola" is superimposed upon a red disc with a picture of a cherry below the text. The background color of the can or bottle remains the same shade of purple introduced in the 2007 design. The word "Cherry" is placed above the red disc, similar to the "Original Taste" text currently used on cans and bottles of original Coca-Cola.

Diet Cherry Coke/Diet Coke Cherry
With the success of the original Cherry Coke, Diet Cherry Coke was introduced in 1986. It was a low-calorie version of the original and the first flavor expansion within the Diet Coke lineup. The drink was renamed as Diet Coke Cherry in 2005.

The drink was released in the United Kingdom in early-2006, replacing Coca-Cola Vanilla and Diet Coke Vanilla.

In 2018, to coincide with Diet Coke's "Millenial" rebranding, Diet Coke Cherry was fully replaced with Diet Coke Feisty Cherry, which featured a bolder cherry taste than the original. Feisty Cherry also replaced the original in the United Kingdom. In October 2020, The Coca-Cola Company announced that the drink would be withdrawn from the US market at the end of December 2020. Cherry coke without artificial sweeteners remains on sale in the United Kingdom.

Coca-Cola Cherry Zero/Coca-Cola Zero Sugar Cherry
Coca-Cola Cherry Zero was introduced into the United States in February 2007. It is another low-calorie variant, this time based on Coca-Cola Zero Sugar.

The drink was expanded internationally, beginning with France in 2012 and the United Kingdom in 2014, and has been later released in Benelux territories, Belgium, Hungary, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, the Netherlands and Germany.

title: Coca-Cola Cherry


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bennett Environmental

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 17:53, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Bennett Environmental
appears to be an ad.--carmeld1

 * When I first started to participate in Wikipedia, I thought it would be a good idea to have all of the companies listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX) composite index to have an entry. Nine months later I think it would have been better just to create a list. This is not the first time that one of them as had a Vote for deletion. This is not an add for the company. Is it notable? I think so (keep), however I will leave it to the "jury" to decide. --YUL89YYZ 13:21, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I've rewritten the text of the article to sound more encyclopedic.  Having all TSX companies on Wikipedia is a great idea. Kurieeto 20:01, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and bravo Kurieeto. Also traded on the AMEX. Samaritan 11:45, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I think that being traded on a major exchange is a great test for notability for a company. (Not that it would be the only one, of course.) Dsmdgold 20:05, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
David Ritz

David Ritz (born December 2, 1943) is an American author. He has written novels, biographies, magazine articles, and over a hundred liner notes for artists such as Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, and Nat King Cole. He has coauthored 36 autobiographies, including some celebrities' autobiographies.

As a biographer
Ritz's first collaboration was Brother Ray (1978), the autobiography of Ray Charles. Ritz has said that his initial intention was to write a biography until becoming intrigued by the idea of rendering the book entirely in Charles' voice. "That's when I discovered I had a gift for channeling voice", Ritz told the L.A. Times' Patrick Goldstein in 2012. "That discovery changed the course of my literary life."

Other autobiographies co-written by Ritz include:

 * Divided Soul: The Life of Marvin Gaye began when Ritz met Gaye in the late seventies and was published in 1985, a year after the singer's death.
 * Rhythm And The Blues: A Life in American Music (1993) with Jerry Wexler
 * Rage To Survive: The Etta James Story (1995) with Etta James
 * Blues All Around Me: The Autobiography of B. B. King (1996) with B. B. King
 * The Brothers Neville (2000) with the Neville Brothers
 * True You: A Journey to Finding and Loving Yourself (2011) with Janet Jackson
 * When I Left Home: My Story (2012) with Buddy Guy
 * On Time: A Princely Life in Funk (2019) with Morris Day
 * I’m Your Huckleberry (2020) with Val Kilmer
 * Me and Sister Bobbie (2020) with Willie Nelson
 * Let Love Rule (2020) with Lenny Kravitz
 * KG – A to Z (2021) with Kevin Garnett
 * Me and Paul – Untold Stories of a Fabled Friendship (2022) with Willie Nelson
 * Share My Life (2023) with Kem
 * Livin' on a Prayer: Big Songs, Big Life (2023) with Desmond Child
 * Energy Follows Through: The Stories Behind Ny Songs (2023) with Willie Nelson

Ritz has also written an inspirational book. Messengers, a portrait of African-American gospel singers and ministers, was published in 2006, as well as memoir, The God Groove, in 2019.

As a novelist
Ritz's fiction ranges from sports fantasies--The Man Who Brought the Dodgers Back To Brooklyn (1981)-- to jazz fantasies--Blue Notes Under a Green Felt Hat (1989) and Barbells and Saxophones (1989).

Ritz collaborated with Mable John on three Christian novels: Sanctified (2006), Stay Out of the Kitchen (2007) and Love Tornado (2008). He has also collaborated with rapper T.I. on two novels— Power and Beauty (2011) and Trouble and Triumph (2012).

In 2016, Ritz collaborated with Willie Nelson on the novel Pretty Paper.

As a children’s book author
Brayden Speaks Up: How One Boy Inspired America (2021) with Brayden Harrington. Jason Goes For It (2023) with Brayden Harrington

As a lyricist
The platinum-selling song "Sexual Healing" was written in Ostend, Belgium in April 1982 and is credited as a collaboration between Marvin Gaye, Odell Brown, and Ritz. Ritz was not originally credited as songwriter. Ritz sued Marvin Gaye for songwriting credit; Ritz received credit only after settling with Marvin Gaye's estate after the singer's death. Ritz claims that the lawsuit was settled because he had interview tapes with Marvin Gaye in which Gaye says, "These are great lyrics you wrote."

Ritz's songs have also been recorded by Smokey Robinson, the Isley Brothers and Kem. David Ritz co-wrote three songs including the title track from Guy King's 2016 album Truth.

Ritz co-wrote “Brothers in the Night,” theme song for the 1983 film Uncommon Valor.

As a journalist
“Happy Song: Soul Music in the Ghetto,” Ritz's first critical essay, was published in Salmagundi (1970). Dozens of other articles have followed, including “History of the Jews of Dallas,” D Magazine (1974); “Kids’ Stuff: Jackson Pollock, Jimmie Vaughan and the Architecture of Las Vegas,” Art Connoisseur (1998); “Show and Tell,” introduction to Rolling Stone's Tattoo Nation (2002); the forward to Lady Sings the Blues, the 50th-anniversary edition of the autobiography of Billie Holiday (2006); and “The Last Days of Brother Ray,” included in Da Capo's Best Music Writing of 2005.

Personal life
Ritz graduated from the University of Texas in Austin in 1966 (Magna Cum Laude/Phi Beta Kappa), and received a Masters of Arts from the State University of New York at Buffalo in 1970, where he studied with literary critic Leslie Fiedler.

He has been married to Roberta Michele Ritz since 1968. They have two children, twins Alison and Jessica, born in 1974.

Awards

 * 1992 Grammy, Best Album Notes for Aretha Franklin's Queen Of Soul – The Atlantic Recordings
 * Ritz has also been nominated for four additional Grammys: “Ray Charles 50th Anniversary Collection,” Liner Notes (1997); “Ray Charles 50th Anniversary Collection,” Producer (1997); “Ray Charles—Pure Genius,” Liner Notes (2005); “Aretha Franklin—The Golden Reign,” Liner Notes (2008).

 * 1993 Ralph J. Gleason Award for Jerry Wexler: Rhythm and the Blues.
 * 1995 Ralph J. Gleason Award for Etta James: Rage to Survive.
 * 1996 Ralph J. Gleason Award for B. B. King’s Blues All Around Me
 * 2000 Ralph J. Gleason Award for the Neville Brothers' The Brothers Neville
 * 2006 ASCAP Deems Taylor Award for liner notes of Johnny “Guitar” Watson: The Funk Anthology, released by Shout! Factory
 * 2011 ASCAP Deems Taylor Award for liner notes of Nat King Cole & Friends: Riffin, released by Verve/Hip-O Select.com/Universal Music Enterprises
 * 2013 Living Blues Reader's Poll, Best Book for When I Left Home: My Story – Buddy Guy and David Ritz – Da Capo Press
 * 2013 Association for Recorded Sound Award for Best Historical Research in Blues/Gospel/Hip-hop/R&B for When I Left Home: My Story – Buddy Guy and David Ritz – Da Capo
 * 2013 ASCAP Timothy White Award for Outstanding Musical Biography for When I Left Home: My Story- Buddy Guy and David Ritz

title: David Ritz


text: Category:Brownlow Medal winners

title: Category:Brownlow Medal winners


text:
Abolfadl Harawi

Abolfadl Harawi was a 10th-century astronomer who, along with al-Khujandi, studied under the patronage of the Buyid dynasty in Rey, Persia. The nisba "Harawi" suggests that he was originally from Herat, in ancient times also known as Haraiva.

See also
 * List of Iranian scientists

title: Abolfadl Harawi