text:
Junction Point Studios

Junction Point Studios (JPS) was an American video game developer based in Austin, Texas founded by Deus Ex creator, Warren Spector, in 2004. Disney Interactive Studios acquired Junction Point Studios in July 2007 to develop a property based on Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, a character created by Walt Disney but owned by Universal Studios until the character was acquired by The Walt Disney Company from Universal in 2006. The studio was closed in 2013.

History
The studio was established in November 2004 by Warren Spector and Art Min. The new studio is based around several former employees of Ion Storm, where Spector and Min previously worked.

From inception up until their acquisition by Disney Interactive Studios, Junction Point was working on a Source Engine based game that was to be distributed on Valve's Steam distribution network. This was later revealed to be a new game in Valve's Half-Life series which was cancelled when Junction Point was acquired.

Junction Point developed Epic Mickey, a Wii game which was released on November 25, 2010 in Europe and on November 30 in North America. The game is about Mickey Mouse's adventure in Wasteland, a world where forgotten characters like Oswald the Lucky Rabbit live. Junction Point has indicated that its game will be a "combination of action and roleplaying, traditional narrative and player choice", and will use Emergent Game Technologies' Gamebryo engine. The game has been developed for the Wii console platform.

On March 21, 2012, Warren Spector announced that a sequel, Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two, was in development for Wii and Wii U.

On January 29, 2013, Disney Interactive Studios confirmed the closure of the studio.

Before its closure, Junction was working on a video game called Project Goliath.

Name
There has been speculation regarding the name "Junction Point" — apparently, this name was used by a canceled game at Looking Glass Studios, where Spector once worked. According to available descriptions, this game was a "massively multiplayer fantasy role-playing game, changed in midstream to a single-player science-fiction role-playing game."

In March 2007, Spector explained the name in an interview:

"When I was with Looking Glass, the last thing I worked on with them on was a concept that I came up with along with Doug Church and some other guys. It was a very different approach to multiplayer online games called Junction Point. I loved the name and concept. I'm not revealing anything too dramatic since we're not doing the game, though I'd love to some day, but the name spoke to me more as a name for a studio than a name for a game. ... It's also nice that it abbreviates to JPS, which rolls off the tongue."

title: Junction Point Studios


text:
San Francisco Columbarium & Funeral Home

The San Francisco Columbarium & Funeral Home is a columbarium (repository for human ashes) owned and operated by Dignity Memorial, located at One Loraine Court, near Stanyan and Anza Streets, just north of Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, California. Built in 1898 by architect Bernard J.S. Cahill, the copper-domed Columbarium is an example of neoclassical architecture. It is the only non-denominational burial place within San Francisco's city limits that is open to the public and has space available.

History
The Columbarium was once part of the Odd Fellows Cemetery, which encompassed approximately 30 acre. It was built to complement an existing crematorium designed by Cahill in 1895.

In 1902 the San Francisco Board of Supervisors prohibited further burials within the city. By late 1910, cremation was also prohibited. The Odd Fellows, forced to abandon their cemetery, established Green Lawn Cemetery in Colma. Transfer of bodies began in 1929 and many families also chose to remove their urns from the Columbarium. The crematorium and various mausoleums were demolished. Many of the headstones were re-used to build a seawall at Aquatic Park. The Columbarium remained, as well as interments below ground that were missed during exhumation, such as the mummified body of two-year-old Edith Howard Cook found in 2016.

After a time, the Columbarium was sold to the Bay Cities Cemetery Association and later to Cypress Abbey. As it passed from one organization to another it fell into disrepair. In 1980, the Neptune Society of Northern California bought it and began restoration. Among others, Emmitt Watson was hired by the Neptune Society as a painter but became the primary restorer of the building and functions as de facto tour guide to this day.

On March 3, 1996, the building was added to the register of San Francisco Designated Landmarks.

Design
The Columbarium combines baroque and neoclassical features. Cahill was probably inspired by the Columbian Exposition of 1893 in Chicago. The diameter, from the entrance to the stained glass window opposite, is 64 ft. The width of the rotunda within the Inner circle is 29 ft and the rotunda reaches a height of about 45 ft.

The eight rooms on the ground floor bear the names of the mythological winds. Six of the ground floor rooms feature beautiful stained glass windows. The window in the Aquilo room depicting three angels in flight, is attributed equally to Louis Comfort Tiffany or John LaFarge. The first floor rooms are named after constellations. The second and third floors are simpler in design. On the grounds there is a fountain sculpture of Coit Tower. Many of the interments have creative dedications and feature personal items.

The first floor contains approximately 2,400 niches, the second floor 2,500, and the third and fourth floors approximately 1,800 each, with an overall total of more than 8,500.

Notable interments
The Columbarium holds the remains, memorials, and cenotaphs of some of San Francisco's most prominent founding families, and celebrities:
 * George Ainslie (1838–1913) – Congressional delegate from Idaho Territory
 * John Backus (1928–2007) – Pioneering computer scientist, creator of Fortran and 1977 Turing Award recipient
 * Ernst Baruth (1842–1906) and Otto Schinkel (1869–1907), the founders of Anchor Brewing Company
 * Chet Helms (1942–2005) – Music promoter and father of San Francisco's 1967 "Summer of Love"
 * Frank E. Hill (1850–1906) – US Army officer during the American Indian Wars and Medal of Honor recipient
 * Thomas N. Howard (1957–2017) – Music and concert promoter-extraordinaire for Bill Graham Presents and The Howard Company
 * Harry August Jansen (1883–1955) – Professional magician, also known as Dante the Magician
 * Jerry Juhl (1938–2005) – Muppeteer and writer for the Muppets
 * Anna Elizabeth Klumpke (1856–1942) – Genre painter and companion to the great French animal painter Rosa Bonheur
 * Dorothea Klumpke (1861–1942) – Astronomer and mathematician
 * Domingo Marcucci (1827–1905) – Venezuelan-born 49er, shipbuilder and shipowner in San Francisco
 * Harvey Milk (1930–1978) – American politician; first openly gay man elected to a public office in California - his remains were relocated but a dedication still stands.
 * Jose Santana (1918–1997) – Mexican-born violinist who performed with symphony orchestras and mariachi bands. He was the father of rock guitarist Carlos Santana.
 * Edward Robeson Taylor (1838–1923) – 28th Mayor of San Francisco

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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User talk:DaleSchultz

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Feco 01:19, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
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 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Creating Articles
Good work creating new articles. When you create things, it helps tremendously to assign them to an accurate category (see WP:CG for info). If you're really not sure about categories, at least assign your new articles a stub category (see WP:SC for info). By assigning a category, you help make sure your new articles don't get lost as 'orphans' that are not associated with related topics. Feco 01:19, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Feco"

Märklin boxes
Hi DaleSchultz — Do you think that the article Märklin boxes is strictly necessary? I'm not sure what the encyclopedic value of seeing all the different kinds of boxes that a company uses is. Might it not be better to condense the information into a paragraph or two with a single picture and add it to the Märklin article? Either way, all the recent images you uploaded need copyright tags, even if you took them yourself. You can find out more at Image description page, and look at Image copyright tags to see what kind of tags would be appropriate. If you took them yourself, you could either tag them GFDL or PD, or you can tell me on my talk page where you got them from and I'll tag them myself. — Asbestos | Talk  17:51, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Lightbluebox.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Lightbluebox.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the image qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. cohesion ★ talk 01:18, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:DaleSchultz


text: User talk:85.97.65.43

title: User talk:85.97.65.43


text: Category:Philippine scripts

title: Category:Philippine scripts


text: Category:Ancient Greek actors

title: Category:Ancient Greek actors


text:
Talk:President of Cyprus

Untitled
What is the use of this page since there is a Category:Presidents of Cyprus? Mavros 01:22, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mavros, what is 'President of Cyprus' in Greek? Could you please add it in both the Greek alphabet & the English phonetic translation as well? - (Aidan Work 01:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC))

I changed the date of Tassos Papadopoulos from 2003-2008 to 2003-present day. This is because their is a chance he gets re-elected into office after 2008. - (Erodotos5 15:52, 1 June 2007 (UTC))

Fair use rationale for Image:Makarios Photo profile.jpg
Image:Makarios Photo profile.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:09, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Kyprianou.jpg
The image Image:Kyprianou.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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Nikos Sampson Political Party
The article claims Nikos Sampson was a member of the Progressive Front, but according to this source (https://avant-garde.com.cy/new-works/new-identity/nikos-samswn) he was removed from this party before his de facto presidency during the July coup d'état. The Greek Wikipedia article for Nikos Sampson (https://el.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Νίκος_Σαμψών) uses this source. (Γιάννης Κ. Λάμπρου, 2004, σελ. 346 και 480.) However, this is a book and I do not have access to it. In my opinion, these sources would justify an edit but my computer is under repair so I myself can not edit the article. KnolGua (talk) 12:06, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

I would also like to mention that during Glafcos Clerides’ first presidency in 1974 he was a member of the United Party, not the United Democratic Party, and that he was not elected, so he should be listed as acting president, even though he was sworn in this oath was not according to the constitution. KnolGua (talk) 12:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:39, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Coat of arms of Cyprus (2023).png

title: Talk:President of Cyprus


text:
Southeastern Power Administration

The Southeastern Power Administration is a United States Power Marketing Administration with responsibility for marketing hydroelectric power from 22 water projects operated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in the states of West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Kentucky.

Southeastern was created in 1950 by the Secretary of the Interior to carry out functions assigned to the Secretary by the Flood Control Act of 1944. In 1977, it was transferred to the United States Department of Energy when that department was created.

The agency is headquartered in Elberton, Georgia. It markets electric power to nearly 500 wholesale customers, including electrical cooperatives, government-operated electric distributors and investor-owned utilities in Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, and southern Illinois.

The objectives of Southeastern are to market electric power and energy generated by the Corps projects at the lowest possible cost to consumers, while recovering the Federal government's costs. Public bodies and cooperatives receive preference in the sale of power. One of the agency's main responsibilities is to design, formulate, and justify rate schedules that are sufficient to repay the Federal government's costs for power production and transmission, including amortization of the Federal investment. Southeastern does not own transmission facilities and must contract with other utilities to provide transmission.

Southeastern's annual revenue from the sale of hydroelectric power is about US$200 million, as of 2009.

Dams
Mobile District

 * Allatoona Dam, Buford Dam, Carters Dam, West Point Dam, Walter F. George Dam, Robert F. Henry Dam, Jim Woodruff Dam, and Millers Ferry Dam

Nashville District

 * Barkley Dam, Cheatham, Old Hickory Dam, J. Percy Priest Dam, Center Hill Dam, Dale Hollow Dam, Wolf Creek Dam, Laurel Dam

Savannah District

 * Hartwell Dam, Richard B. Russell Dam, J. Strom Thurmond Dam

Wilmington District

 * John H. Kerr Dam and Philpott Dam

title: Southeastern Power Administration


text:
All That I Am (Santana album)

All That I Am is the twentieth studio album by Santana and follow-up to the band's 2002 Shaman. It was released on October 31, 2005, in most of the world, and a day later on November 1, in the United States. All That I Am follows the format of his previous two studio releases, consisting primarily of collaborations with other artists. The album debuted at number 2 on the Billboard 200.

Singles
The first single released from All That I Am was "I'm Feeling You" which featured Michelle Branch and the Wreckers, was released in October 2005 after it received radio airplay in the previous month, but only peaked at number 55 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100. The second single was "Just Feel Better" which featured Steven Tyler; it was released in November 2005 and would peak at number 7 in Australia and number 77 in the UK. The final single was "Cry Baby Cry" which featured Sean Paul and Joss Stone would only peak at number 71 in the UK.

Track listing

 * 1) "Hermes" – 4:08
 * 2) *  Written by Carlos Santana and S. Jurad
 * 3) *  Produced by Carlos Santana
 * 4) "El Fuego" – 4:17
 * 5) *  Written by Carlos Santana, Jean Shepherd and Richard Shepherd
 * 6) *  Produced by Carlos Santana
 * 7) "I'm Feeling You" – 4:13
 * 8) *  Featuring Michelle Branch and The Wreckers
 * 9) *  Written by Kara DioGuardi, John Shanks and Michelle Branch
 * 10) *  Produced by John Shanks and Kara DioGuardi
 * 11) "My Man" – 4:37
 * 12) *  Featuring Big Boi and Mary J. Blige
 * 13) *  Written by Antwan Patton, Nsilo Reddick, Nicholas Sherwood and Rob Thomas
 * 14) *  Produced by Big Boi and The Beat Bullies
 * 15) "Just Feel Better" – 4:12
 * 16) *  Featuring Steven Tyler
 * 17) *  Written by Jamie Houston, Buck Johnson and Damon Johnson
 * 18) *  Produced by John Shanks
 * 19) "I Am Somebody" – 4:02
 * 20) *  Featuring will.i.am
 * 21) *  Written by will.i.am and George Pajon, Jr.
 * 22) *  Produced by will.i.am
 * 23) *  Additional Production Lester Mendez
 * 24) *  This song is considered by most as a tribute to "I Am - Somebody", a poem by Reverend Jesse Jackson.
 * 25) "Con Santana" – 3:18
 * 26) *  Featuring Ismaïla and Sixu Toure, also known as Touré Kunda
 * 27) *  Written by Carlos Santana, Ismaïla Toure and Tidane "Sixu" Toure
 * 28) *  Produced by Carlos Santana
 * 29) "Twisted" – 5:11
 * 30) * Featuring Anthony Hamilton
 * 31) * Written by Dante Ross and Nandi Willis
 * 32) *  Produced by Dante Ross
 * 33) "Trinity" – 3:33
 * 34) *  Featuring Kirk Hammett and Robert Randolph
 * 35) *  Written by Carlos Santana and Michael Brook
 * 36) *  Produced by Carlos Santana
 * 37) *  This song is a tribute to the Pakistani musician Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and is a cover of his song Tere Bina
 * 38) "Cry Baby Cry" – 3:53
 * 39) *  Featuring Sean Paul and Joss Stone
 * 40) *  Written by Lester Mendez, Sean Paul, Kara DioGuardi and Jimmy Harry
 * 41) *  Produced and Arranged by Lester Mendez
 * 42) "Brown Skin Girl" – 4:44
 * 43) *  Featuring Bo Bice
 * 44) *  Written by Jamie Houston
 * 45) *  Produced by Lester Mendez and Jamie Houston
 * 46) *  Vocal Arrangement by Jamie Houston
 * 47) "I Don't Wanna Lose Your Love" – 4:00
 * 48) *  Featuring Los Lonely Boys
 * 49) *  Written by Henry Garza, Ringo Garza and Joey Garza
 * 50) *  Produced by Carlos Santana
 * 51) *  Additional Production by John Proter and Los Lonely Boys
 * 52) "Da Tu Amor" – 4:03
 * 53) *  Written by Carlos Santana, Andy Vargas, and Gary Glenn
 * 54) *  Produced by Carlos Santana

Personnel

 * Andy Vargas – lead vocals (1, 2, 7, 13)
 * Carlos Santana – guitar, background vocals
 * Chester Thompson – organ
 * Benny Rietveld – bass guitar
 * Dennis Chambers – drums
 * Karl Perazzo – congas, timbales, percussion, background vocals
 * Raul Rekow – congas, background vocals
 * Jeff Cressman – trombone
 * Bill Ortiz – trumpet

Digital Rights Management
This CD is thought to contain MediaMax CD-3 by SunnComm. Some anti-virus and anti-adware programs are attempting to remove said clones and impersonators of said DRM. Sony has recalled all affected CDs and has re-released the album without the DRM.

title: All That I Am (Santana album)


text:
Talk:All That I Am (Santana album)

No Album Reviews
Does anybody else feel that a review of the album in the article is misplaced? Shouldn't the article be from an NPOV? The author said that they tried to be as unbiased as possible, but an album review is just that, it is a biased statement on your opinion. Please make it clear why a review belongs in an NPOV article. --Cumbiagermen 04:20, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I've just deleted the review parts... its really not necessary. Fan reaction can be mentioned within the article, if the opinion is notably agreed upon by many people. Professional reviews can be quoted too to further such opinions. The quote about "My Man" with Mary J Blige and Big Boi could work, if it provided a source from a notable reviewer.
 * I have left this line, however, since I understand there are a fair number of people who do feel this way, thus making it a notable fan opinion: "This has led to some fans rejecting Santana's recent releases, feeling that he is abandoning the Latin and extended solo based nature of his earlier work in favour of commercial appeal by putting his name alongside current artists." Still - I would like for someone to present a counterargument of why others would feel they welcome this change, within the article, to keep it more NPOV. Having been mostly introduced to Santana with his Supernatural era stuff for the most part, I can't really think of one myself, heh (being unable to really "compare" the two sides). Shadowolf 10:10, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

removed xcp warning
This album does NOT contain XCP.
 * EFF Link
 * Sony BMG

ProveIt 16:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:All That I Am (Santana album)


text:
Jan Yoors

Jan Yoors (12 April 1922 – 27 November 1977) was a Belgian-American artist, photographer, painter, sculptor, writer, filmmaker, and tapestry creator. Growing up in Antwerp to liberal, pacifist parents, his father Eugeen Yoors, a famed stained-glass artist, Yoors studied painting before deciding to live with a Rom kumpania he encountered on the outskirts of Antwerp at the age of twelve, and about which he would later write two memoirs, The Gypsies (1967) and Crossing: A Journal of Survival and Resistance in World War II (1971), the latter about living with the Rom during World War II. Yoors fled to London after the war where he lived with his wife Annebert and her best friend Marianne. It is at this point that Yoors began to design tapestries and set up a tapestry studio with his wife Annebert and Marianne. In 1950 he moved to New York, traveling there under the guise of a journalist. The following year, Annebert and Marianne joined and the three set up the Jan Yoors Studio. In New York, Yoors befriended numerous figures in the art and design worlds. He received commissions from corporations such as Bank of America, and J.P. Morgan, and private collectors. His work was seen in numerous exhibitions across the United States and internationally. In New York in the 50s, Yoors also continued his passion for photography, which he began while living with the Rom, documenting the streets of New York. He traveled extensively on a trip to revisit his Rom family in Europe, and, in 1966–67 photographed post-war religious buildings for Edward Sovik as part of the First International Congress on Religion, Architecture, and the Visual Arts in New York. Yoors's oeuvre is currently represented by several galleries in New York, Europe including reGeneration Furniture, Todd Merrill, L Parker Stephenson Photographs, and Fifty One Fine Art Photography, Antwerp, and regularly shown at design and photography fairs.

Early life and childhood

 * 1922: Yoors is born in Antwerp to Eugeen Yoors, a famed stained glass-artist who studied painting under Gustave Moreau, and Magda Peeters, a human rights activist, both of them Catholic pacifists.
 * 1934: At the age of twelve Yoors first encounters a kumpania of the Romani people on the outskirts of Antwerp. Upon becoming friends with Putzina and his father Pulika, the Romanies adopt Yoors.
 * 1934–1939: Yoors splits his time between the Romanies and his parents' home, often traveling long distances to find his Rom family.
 * In 1939 Pulika sets up a marriage for Yoors with a Romani girl, though Yoors decides to leave, as the conflict of dual loyalties would return.
 * Yoors studies sculpture at the Royal Academy of Fine Arts, Antwerp.

WWII

 * On his way to the UK, Yoors is recruited by the French Resistance to co-opt the Romanies, smuggling food and arms into Belgium, France, and Holland.
 * 1941–42: Yoors attends the École nationale supérieure d'architecture et des arts décoratifs (ENSAAD – La Cambre) in Brussels.
 * 1943: Yoors is arrested by the Gestapo and sentenced to death. After confinement and six months of torture at La Santé Prison in Paris, he works for the allies again, impersonating an SS officer and escorting allied soldiers from behind enemy lines, however he is caught and held at the Miranda de Ebro concentration camp in Spain until 1944.
 * 1944: Yoors joins Belgian forces in the UK.

London years

 * 1946: Yoors marries Annebert van Wettum with whom he has corresponded since age 11. The two move to London and set up a studio at 27 Holland Park Avenue W.11. Here, Yoors begins sculpting and becomes fascinated by weaving after seeing an exhibition of French medieval and Renaissance tapestries. Yoors is a frequent contributor to the Gypsy Lore Society's journal in London.

1945–1946
From: 1947–1948 Annebert's childhood friend Marianne Citroen joins them in London, also learning to weave. "Nadara" (1948), the first of the large tapestries, is completed. The Archer Gallery in London organizes the first exhibition of Yoors's work in tapestry. In 1949 the "Eighth Annual Exhibition of Catholic Art" at the Royal Institute of British Architects includes Yoors's work.
 * Yoors studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS).

New York
In 1950, Yoors travels to New York for what was meant to be a six-week stay as a journalist and sets up a studio with a 15-foot vertical loom. Galerie Stop-War in Brussels. Both tapestries and gouaches depicting biblical scenes are included. "Tapestry Today: America's Approach to an Ancient Art", at America House is presented by the American Craftsmen's Educational Council. Art in America magazine lists Yoors as a new talent. Virginia Frankl Gallery, NY organizes an exhibition of tapestries. The exhibition includes work by René Magritte, Gaston Bertrand, and Paul Delvaux. A tapestry is commissioned for Shepherd of the Hills Lutheran Church in Minnesota. together with Japanese-American abstract expressionist painter Kenzo Okada's recent work. The Yoors family moves to 108 Waverly Place in Greenwich Village. 1969: "Contemporary European Tapestries" from the collection of Mr. and Mrs. J.L. Hurschler is organized at the Society of the Four Arts in Florida. Yoors returned to Belgium a final time for a retrospective in Ghent at Saint Peter's Abbey.
 * 1951: Marianne and Annebert join him in New York; the three live and work at 96 Fifth Avenue. Under the auspices of the Belgian Government, the International School of Art, NY, presents Yoors's first US exhibition.
 * The New Yorker publishes "Gypsiana" about Yoors's travels in its 27 October issue.
 * In 1953: Hugo Gallery NY presents Yoors's work.
 * 1955: Manhattanville College of the Sacred Heart mounts an exhibition.
 * 1956 Tapestries are shown at Galerias Excelsior de Reforma in Mexico City.
 * The Montclair Art Museum, NJ mounts an exhibition of Yoors's tapestries.
 * 1957: The Museum of Contemporary Craft exhibits Yoors's tapestries in an exhibition that travels to the Time-Life Building in 1958.
 * 1957/8: Yoors receives a Pentax K1000 camera.
 * 1958: The Dallas University Museum in Texas mounts "Religious Art of The Western World".
 * 1959: The Yoors family moves to a studio at 329 East 47th Street.
 * 1960: Several tapestries are included "The Arts of Belgium: 1920–1960" at the Park-Bernet Galleries in New York.
 * An educational film "The Revival of Tapestry from 1911" includes Yoors along with Georges Braque, Jules Chéret and Jean Lurçat, among others.
 * "Liturgical Art" is mounted at the Arts Club of Chicago.
 * The National Design Center in New York organizes "Architectural Tapestries"
 * The apartment building "Art 333" at 333 East 79th street designed by Abraham Gellar includes the tapestry "Dancing Flames" (1960) in its inaugural exhibition.
 * 1961: Yoors is invited by Belgian filmmaker Henri Storck and anthropologist and filmmaker Luc de Heusch to travel through the Balkans on a scouting trip for an unrealized documentary about the Rom.
 * The Otis Art Institute in Los Angeles organizes an exhibition.
 * Yoors and Dutch painter and friend Ernst Van Leyden throw a party in honor of poet Octavio Paz at the Yoors Studio.
 * 1962: "Ruckus", a party featuring Dizzy Gillespie is organized at the studio to benefit CORE (Congress of Racial Equality).
 * 1963: Yoors' daughter Lyuba is born on 13 September.
 * 1962 and 1964: Yoors is selected as the US representative at the International Biennial of Contemporary Tapestries in Lausanne.
 * 1965: Yoors' son Vanya is born on 24 April.
 * 1963 – 1965: Along with French filmmaker Pierre Dominique Gaisseau, Yoors participates in the making of the film Only One New York. The book, which features photographs by Yoors, is published in 1965.
 * 1966 – 1967: Yoors travels throughout South America, Asia, the Middle East and Russia photographing postwar religious architecture, commissioned by the American Institute of Architects (AIA) for the 1967 "International Congress on Religion, Architecture and the Visual Arts".
 * The Chicago Arts Club mounts an exhibition of tapestries.
 * In 1967 The University of Texas Art Museum, Austin, organizes an exhibition of tapestries and photographs
 * The Gypsies is published by Simon and Schuster. Margaret Mead reviews the book in the September issue of Redbook magazine.
 * Yoors travels and conducts research for an unrealized documentary on the Gypsies beginning in Northern India.
 * 1968: Yoors' son Kore is born on 24 October.
 * 1971: Yoors travels to Spain to photograph for his book The Gypsies of Spain. Simon and Schuster publishes Crossing: A Journal of Survival and Resistance in World War II.
 * 1974: Members of his extended Rom clan came for a three-month visit.
 * The Gypsies of Spain is published.
 * 1975: Paule Pia, Antwerp organizes an exhibition of photographs.
 * 1976: Yoors's work is on view at the Sears Bank, Sears Tower, Chicago.
 * Carlton Gallery, NY mounts an exhibition.
 * 1977: Yoors dies of a heart attack after a long struggle with diabetes at the age of 55 on Thanksgiving Day.

Exhibitions since Jan's death
1700 Broadway, NY mounts a memorial exhibition. The Metropolitan Museum of Art acquires the tapestry "Inevitable Interaction (1977)." The Bryan Center at Duke University mounts a solo exhibition. 2011–2012
 * 1978: Galerij Steenhuyse in Ghent presents Yoors's tapestries.
 * 1979: The Clocktower Gallery, NY exhibits Yoors's tapestries.
 * 1980; The National Academy of Sciences, Washington D.C. mounts an exhibition.
 * 1983: The documentary Weaving Two Worlds, features Annebert and Marianne continuing to weave Yoors's designs.
 * 1986: Yoors's Rom photographs from the Balkans are on view at the Museum of Natural History, NY. The Gallery at Hastings-on-Hudson also exhibits Yoors's work.
 * 1988; "Studio Survey" at Westpac Gallery in Victoria, Australia features tapestries from studio-based workshops around the world.
 * 1989: The Idaho State Historical Museum in Boise, ID shows Yoors's tapestries.
 * 1996: The State Academy of Art and Design, St Petersburg, Russia mounts an exhibition.
 * 1998: Lizan Tops gallery in East Hampton, organizes an exhibition.
 * 2000: Icon 20 gallery, NY organizes an exhibition.
 * 2001:Cleveland State University, Ohio exhibits tapestries.
 * 2004: Columbia University's School of International Affairs in conjunction with "The plight of the Rom" host a conference sponsored by Hillary Clinton.
 * Monacelli Press publishes The Heroic Present: Life Among the Gypsies, including photographs and memoirs.
 * 2005: The Bruce Museum mounts an exhibition.
 * Foto Museum in Antwerp organizes a survey of Belgian photography.
 * 2007: "The Heroic Present: Jan Yoors Photographs" opens at Kenneshaw, Atlanta; Kansas State University, and Asheville, North Carolina.
 * 2009: Fifty-One Fine Art, Antwerp shows Yoors's work at "Paris Photo".
 * L. Parker Stephenson Photographs, NY shows Yoors's work in "La France de Profil".
 * 2010: L. Parker Stephenson Photographs presents "Jan Yoors: Harlem, c. 1963".
 * "Mid Century Style and Studio Pottery" at Greenwich House Pottery NY includes Jungle (1977).
 * ReGeneration Furniture organizes "Tapestries, Drawings, and Photographs from the Estate of Jan Yoors". The gallery will organize two additional exhibitions.
 * "Wandering the World City: Jan Yoors' New York Photographs, 1960s" is presented at Columbia University.
 * Stormy Sky (1976) is hung at the 2011 "Armory Show" at the ReGeneration Furniture lounge.
 * The Museum of Arts and Design, NY presents "Crafting Modernism".
 * "Couleurs shock", a solo-exhibition of tapestries is presented by Galerie Chevalier, Paris.
 * Fifty-One Fine Art, Antwerp includes Yoors's photographs at "Paris Photo".
 * L. Parker Stephenson, New York Gallery presents Yoor's photographs at "AIPAD Photography Show".
 * Fifty-One Fine Art photography, Antwerp exhibits Yoors's photographs.
 * FeliXart Museum in Drogenbos-Brussels organizes the first retrospective of Yoors's work since his death
 * L. Parker Stephenson, New York, organizes "Jan Yoors: Abstractions 1960s −1977 Photographs, Gouaches, and Drawings" on view 4 September – 1 November 2014.

Awards

 * 1969 – Europaprijs voor literatuur
 * 1973 – Christophe Plantin Prize

title: Jan Yoors


text:
Southwestern Power Administration

The Southwestern Power Administration (Southwestern) is an agency of the U.S. Department of Energy. Southwestern's mission was established by Section 5 of the Flood Control Act of 1944. The agency is a power marketing administration responsible for marketing the hydroelectric power produced at 24 United States Army Corps of Engineers multipurpose dams. By law, the power and associated energy are marketed to publicly held entities such as rural electric cooperatives and municipal utilities. Southwestern has over one hundred such "preference" customers which ultimately serve over 10 million end use customers.

Southwestern operates and maintains 1,380 miles of high-voltage transmission lines, 24 substations, and 46 microwave and VHF radio sites from field offices. Around-the-clock power scheduling and dispatching is conducted from the Operations Center.

Southwestern's rates, by law, are designed to recover the costs of producing the power. These costs include repayment of the dams' initial construction, with interest; repayment of the transmission system construction, with interest; major replacements; and both the Corps of Engineers' and Southwestern's annual operating and maintenance expenses. Annual revenues vary with water conditions, but generally average about US$100 million. Southwestern returns the revenues to the U.S. Treasury, and of that, about US$40 million is applied toward interest and repayment of the Federal investment.

History
Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn of Texas and Representative Clyde T. Ellis of Arkansas spearheaded the effort to make all federal dams constructed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in the region to stay owned and operated by the military while the hydroelectric power stations were to be managed and marketed by the new Southwestern Power Administration. In the late 1930s Rayburn and Ellis were able to secure dams in Denison, TX and Norfork, AR in separate independent projects for their House district constituents. The two representatives pushed for a 'mini-Tennessee Valley Authority' system for the states of Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri (and a few more states who would be customers to these dams' energy production) but only for the federally-built dams and their hydroelectric power plants. Other power plants like fossil fuel plants were not going to be owned and managed by the SWPA like Tennessee's power plants. The reason for the creation of the SWPA was the fear that the federal dams, which are multipurpose in terms of flood control and water storage for recreation and human use, would be poorly managed by private businesses and also because utility companies during the 1920s and 1930s hiked up electricity prices in rural areas far higher than in urban areas.

The SWPA was a hallmark of Rayburn's campaign to provide electricity to all farmers and rural Americans. He previously succeeded in the landmark Rural Electrification Act of 1936 to establish rural cooperatives to supply very cheap electricity to rural Americans. The SWPA (as well as the establishment of the other three Power Marketing Administrations) and the guaranteed cheap electricity from dams helped the REA's goals to be realized. Rayburn first persuaded President Roosevelt to sign an executive order establishing the SWPA in July 1943. This was crucial because private utility companies were hoping for the dams to be turned over to the Federal Works Administration during World War II. Most public projects that were turned over to the FWA were scheduled to end up in private companies' hands after the war. Executive orders are only temporary so Rayburn was able to get the SWPA to be permanently established in the Flood Control Act of 1944. This act also established the similar Southeastern Power Administration. From 1943 to 1984 twenty-four dams were built for the SWPA.

title: Southwestern Power Administration


text:
Crystal Plamondon

Crystal Plamondon (born in 1963 in Plamondon, Alberta, Canada) is a trilingual singer and performer of Cajun and country music.

Plamondon's birth town was founded by her great-grandfather. She began singing publicly at the age of ten but didn't record until 1990 when she made her own cassette. Plamondon lists her musical influences as Daniel Lanois, Zachary Richard, Dolly Parton, Sting, and Emmylou Harris. Her CDs include Carpe Diem in 1993, La Rousse Farouche in 1996, and Plus de Frontières in 2002. Plus de Frontières (English: No Borders) was nominated for a Western Canadian Music Award for "Outstanding Francophone Recording" in 2003. She speaks three languages: English, French, and Cree.

In 1992, she received the Molson Canadian ARIA (Alberta Recording Industry Association) Performer of the Year Award. In 1993, she was nominated for YWCA's Tribute to Women Award, for Arts & Culture. In 1994, Plamondon was given formal recognition of her talents by being made an honorary citizen of Breaux Bridge, Louisiana. Her music videos, Rendez-vous en Louisiane and Cajun Girl/ La Cajine filmed in Plamondon, Alberta, receive regular play in the southern U.S. and in Canada.

Plamondon had a television special filmed in Benin, West Africa and in her Alberta home in November, 1998 called Passeport Musique for Radio Canada. She has also performed live on Parliament Hill in 1997 for the Canada Day celebration; and on October 18, 2000, Crystal sang the Famous Five Anthem for the inauguration of the "Women are Persons!" monument on Parliament Hill to commemorate the day that women were declared "persons" in 1929.

Four of Plamondon's songs have been featured in the CBC TV show Heartland.

After living in southern Alberta and Louisiana, Plamondon is now living in the Plamondon area, and performs at the Calgary Stampede, local venues and at tour stops in Canada.

Singles

 * Carpe Diem! (1993) marked Crystal's first #1 hit "Capitaine" followed quickly by "On va faire le rigodon" in France.

Albums

 * Solo
 * Carpe Diem! (1993)
 * La Rousse Farouche/ Wild Red (1996)
 * Plus de Frontières - No Borders (2002) This CD was nominated for a Western Canadian Music Award for "Outstanding Francophone Recording"
 * On a Song and a Prayer / Une Chanson, une prière (2009)
 * TORCH! (2010)
 * Half Gospel, Half Heartbreak (2015)

 * Contributing artist
 * Big Valley Jamboree (1993)
 * The Rough Guide to the Music of Canada (2005)

title: Crystal Plamondon


text:
USS Stewart

USS Stewart may refer to the following ships of the United States Navy:

 * USS Stewart (DD-13), a Bainbridge-class destroyer, commissioned in 1902 and decommissioned in 1919.
 * USS Stewart (DD-224), a Clemson-class destroyer, commissioned in 1920 and decommissioned in 1946. She served briefly in the Imperial Japanese Navy, after being sunk and abandoned.
 * USS Stewart (DE-238), is an Edsall-class destroyer escort, commissioned in 1943 and decommissioned in 1947. Since 1974 she is a museum ship in Galveston, Texas.

スチュワート (駆逐艦)

title: USS Stewart


text:
Talk:Italic languages

Italic peoples
I've seen the peoples speaking Italic languages being referred to as Italic peoples. I still don't know much about these peoples besides the Romans, though. Gringo300 11:00, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

studied?
I've been studying Latin for several years now.

Has anyone on here studied the other Italic languages?
 * They're rather scarcely attested afaik. There just isn't enough corpus left for a thorough understanding of these languages. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

-

Relation between [Romance_languages] and [Italic_languages]?

Acconding to the entry on romance languages, it's a subfamily of italic language, but the italic language page thosen't mention them. Which one is right?

 * Yes, they are mentioned:
 * As Rome extended its political dominion over the whole of the Italian peninsula, so too did Latin become dominant over the other Italic languages, which ceased to be spoken perhaps sometime in the 1st century AD. From so-called Vulgar Latin the Romance languages emerged. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 16:12, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The page presents Italo-Celtic as a fact when actually it's more of a hypothesis (and though I'm no expert, I don't think it's a particularly popular hypothesis any more.) Seems like it should hedge that a bit or something.Excalibre 06:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The hierarchy
Why, in the infobox, is Romance shown as a sibling of Latino-Faliscan when the Romance languages are descendants of Latin, itself a descendant of Latino-Faliscan? —Largo Plazo (talk) 14:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Extinct? really?
I'm tired of everyone saying latin is a dead language. It is the language of science, medicine and law. A pre-cursor to so many languages, an understanding of latin will give ANYONE an advantage ANYWHERE language skills are needed. I submit that we use a better word than extinct. Just because a language is not spoken now-adays does not mean it is dead.72.12.72.122 (talk) 01:31, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That is the definition of the expression "dead language" so, yes, it does mean that, despite your perfectly true observations. —Largo Plazo (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to see a person speaking Latin with correct pronunciation. Dude, Latin is dead! Language of science? Replaceable. Languages are living and developing over time. This is fairly natural. Why do you learn a dead root language to understand other languages better? Latin does not help you as much as you think. In my country, we have to choose between learning French or Latin at school and the tendency for Latin is declining. Later you can also take Italian. Now guess what! The students having taken Latin have more problems with learning Italian despite of the similar vocabulary. There are too many false friends because Latin is dead and hasn't changed much. However, French and Italian share more true friends and grammar because they have developed together and dropped declination. Besides, French is more useful nowadays.--95.116.231.215 (talk) 21:22, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, Latin is for all intents and purposes a dead language. Even the Pope's 'Latinist', who translates official documents for the Vatican (the only state where it is still officially used, though Italian is far more common even there), said back in 2007 that its use within the Catholic church has effectively passed the point of no return: young priests are no longer learning it, and even cardinals now often request translations into something they can understand. There are certainly people who can still speak it (so in that sense it isn't completely dead), but it must be hard for them to find anyone else to converse with. As for the statement that Latin is 'the language of science, medicine and law', I'm afraid it's a century or two out of date. Of course, set Latin phrases are used in all three disciplines, but the vast majority of scientists, physicians and lawyers use them merely by rote - they don't know the underlying grammar, and couldn't produce a new Latin phrase on the basis of an existing one (as most of their 17th-century predecessors still could). An English-speaking lawyer who says 'in camera' knows it means 'behind closed doors', but probably couldn't translate it literally ('in a chamber') - and a French-speaking lawyer would simply say 'à huis clos', using a now obsolete French word for 'doors'. In short, Latin is not 'the language of law'. As for medicine, my mother was a nurse and remembered that 'nil per os' meant 'nothing by mouth' when patients were not allowed to eat or drink anything before surgery or a blood test - but the American Medical Association has now decreed that this phrase or its abbreviation 'NPO' must not be used, and that 'nothing by mouth' should be used instead. In other words, Latin is not 'the language of medicine' either - if anything, Greek is used more often ('arthritis', 'cardiology', 'diarrhoea'). For that matter, my mother grew up as an Irish Catholic and still knew all her prayers in Latin, as well as what they meant - not because she understood Latin, but simply because she'd had it all drummed into her as a child. She certainly couldn't help me with my Latin lessons at school. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.127.210.95 (talk) 16:39, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * By the way, I've never bought the argument that Latin gives English-speakers a unique insight into other languages. I'm an English-speaking hyperpolyglot, and I did have Latin lessons at school; but I could just as easily have learned the Latin-based vocabulary and system of verb endings by studying Spanish, Portuguese, Italian or French, and the principle of noun and adjective declension ('case endings') by studying German, Russian or Modern Greek - languages that are still actively spoken by many millions of people. Latin has no other unique advantages for English-speakers, if only because most Latin literature worth reading has already been competently translated into English. Irish people already have the advantage of compulsory Irish lessons at school, which introduce them to the idea of noun and adjective cases. As far as I'm concerned Latin only survived in our schools from force of habit, and a sense that it was good for school discipline to make children learn something difficult and, in today's world, largely useless!
 * Quod erat demonstrandum?213.127.210.95 (talk) 17:01, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * For an educated person, knowing Latin is still useful – not necessarily being able to read texts fluently, but knowing vocabulary and grammar, in view of all the fragments and quotations from Classical Latin and Neo-Latin that are still used in academic language, not to mention all the loanwords (sometimes still with Latinate plurals). Especially if you read older literature (even in modern languages, not Neo-Latin itself). Studying Romance or other modern Indo-European languages isn't quite sufficient for that; in particular, you can't really derive the Latin case endings and plural endings from Romance or other IE languages. I'd say knowing Latin is almost as useful in academia (especially in history and related fields) as knowing English in fields like IT.
 * Of course, that doesn't change the conclusion that Latin can't be classified as a living language anymore. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Dead or Alive - the case of Friulian
The article on Friulian says it is an Italic language. However, the article on Itlaic languages lists the romance languages and "extinct languages". Friulian is not a Romance language, so logic would make one reason that it must be included under the reference to extinct languages. However, Friulian is alive and kicking and has a thriving community on the Wikipedia! --Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 18:35, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * FYI general: someone changed the Friulian article to make it a Romance language. Nice catch Correia, you ought to do more on WP.Dave (talk) 02:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Extinct?
Is there any non-Romance Italic language still alive? Kanzler31 (talk) 06:18, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No. --Taivo (talk) 06:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes. See Griko language 88.193.103.47 (talk) 00:55, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

 * The anonymous IP obviously doesn't have a clue about what he is saying since "Griko" is a dialect of Greek and not an Italic language at all. --Taivo (talk) 06:23, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Sicel and Oenotrian
The list is incomplete: Sicel is attested in inscripitions and mentioned even by Varro in his De Lingua Latina: it belonged in the Latino-Faliscan group. Oenotrians too were possibly a Latino-Falsican speaking people.Aldrasto11 (talk) 12:45, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

 * IIRC, Rix also mentions that a Latino-Faliscan dialect was originally spoken in the town of Caere, besides Etruscan, and I seem to recall that Auruncan, the dialect of the Latin tribe of the Aurunci, attested in the Garigliano Bowl, is sometimes considered a separate language or variety. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

It seems there is not enough changes from PIE, because applying those rules one can't convert PIE *h₂ŕ̥ḱtos to latin ursus. Only arktos has appeared: #HRC → #aRC91.76.135.242 (talk) 16:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Latin ursus is an unsolved problem. Rix's law predicts **ar-, that's true. The s is probably regular, see Thorn cluster. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

 * It is assumed that words for 'bear' (and 'wolf') are affected by taboo deformation. —Tamfang (talk) 00:34, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
 * In the case of lupus, a Sabellic loan (maybe to avoid homonymy with lūcus) is more likely. In the case of ursus, taboo deformation is of course possible, but unsatisfying as an explanation. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:52, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

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Raetian/Raetic?
The caption for the coloured diagram of languages in Italy refers to 'Raetian', but the diagram itself refers to 'Raetic'. I don't know which is correct, but the same term should surely be used in both cases.213.127.210.95 (talk) 15:21, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Latin "duo" is without macron
at least according to wiktionary, it is with a short o — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.22.110.19 (talk) 11:01, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Axe grinding
Beginning of lead:

The Italic languages are a branch of the Indo-European language family, whose earliest known members were spoken in the Italian peninsula in the first millennium BC. The best-known member is Latin, the only language of the group that survived into the common era. All other Italic languages became extinct by the 1st century BCE, when their speakers were assimilated into the Roman Empire and switched to some form of Latin.

Much later, at the end of the lead:

The Romance languages, being descended from Latin, are technically part of the Italic branch too. With over 800 million native speakers, they would make Italic the second most widely spoken branch of the Indo-European family, after the Indo-Iranian languages. However, there are profound linguistic differences between Romance and the other pre-Roman Italic languages, such as the loss of the grammatical case system.

So the first paragraph definitively disavows the Romance languages as part of this tree (see bolded phrases), and the final paragraph (if the reader gets that far) begrudgingly allows them back in, a little bit, sort of, if you're none too bright.

Unfortunately for the cause of consistency, the article on Romance languages stubbornly insists on being none too bright:

The Romance languages are the modern languages that evolved from Vulgar Latin between the third and eighth centuries and that form a subgroup of the Italic languages within the Indo-European language family.

I think it would be wisest to refactor this "none too bright" axe-grinding subtext, and allow the Romance languages a mention in the lead paragraph. — MaxEnt 07:22, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I think the seemingly odd detachment of the Romance languages from the Italic languages in the lede is less a willful denial of the former being firmly nested within the latter, but rather an involuntary product of the two mostly being completely separated research areas in academia: Italic studies as a subdivision of Indo-European studies usually deals with Italic languages minus the Romance languages. But yes, for most readers the current wording is definitely misleading.
 * The easiest way to fix this is to rephrase the second sentence from:
 * "The best-known member is Latin, the only language of the group that survived into the common era. All other Italic languages became extinct by the 1st century BC..."
 * into:
 * "With the exception of Latin and its contemporary descendants, the Romance languages, all other Italic languages became extinct by the 1st century BC..."
 * What do you think? –Austronesier (talk) 14:23, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

 * The situation here is roughly comparable to that of Dinosaur, for example (in fact, in biology, such situations aren't exactly uncommon since the triumph of cladistics). Still, I don't think it's necessary to treat the Romance languages as completely separate, and it shouldn't be over-emphasised – Romanian, at least, still has a case system. Closer to home, compare Celtic languages, with the modern representatives being similarly distinct from the ancient ones. That kind of thing just happens. I see no problem with acknowledging that Italic is a branch that is still extant; that the Romance languages are Italic (not only "technically"); and that Italic (via Latin/Romance) is therefore very widespread in the world. It might sound a bit unusual, but it's simply a fact. That the research traditions regarding ancient Italic vs. modern Romance are sharply separate is more of an accident of history – understandable, but still not decisive. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:36, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Response The highlighted parts of first paragraph cited above are perfectly correct. AFAIK, Latin *is* the only Italic language to survive into the common era. That is, in 1 CE there was only one Italic language, Latin. But we should append something to that paragraph about the Romance languages, which developed since then.
 * I do object to the claim that "The best-known member is Latin". I would think it's French or maybe Spanish. So I might rewrite it as something like,

The Italic languages are a branch of the Indo-European language family, whose earliest known members were spoken in the Italian peninsula in the first millennium BC. The only language of the group to survive into the common era was Latin, the official (?) language of the Roman Empire. All other Italic languages became extinct by the 1st century BCE, as their speakers assimilated into the Roman Empire and switched to some form of Latin. Then, between the third and eighth centuries CE, Vulgar Latin diversified into the Romance languages, which are the only Italic languages natively spoken today.
 * As for the 2nd paragraph above, maybe reduce it to s.t. like,

With over 800 million native speakers, the Romance languages make Italic the second-most-widely spoken branch of the Indo-European family, after Indo-Iranian.
 * I think it's fine to go a bit light on our coverage of Romance in this article, given how much space we dedicate to them elsewhere, as long as we don't imply that they're somehow not "real" Italic languages. But it may be appropriate (I don't know) to say the field of Italic studies specializes in the ancient languages, or that scholars of the ancient languages tend to ignore Romance. (If they do.) E.g., the Etymological Dictionary of Latin and the Other Italic Languages (Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary). We need something to explain to the reader why this article concentrates on the ancient Italic languages to the exclusion of the medieval and modern ones. So that last para might be s.t. like,

With over 800 million native speakers, the Romance languages make Italic the second-most-widely spoken branch of the Indo-European family, after Indo-Iranian. However, in academia the ancient Italic languages form a separate field of research from the medieval and modern Romance languages. This article focuses on the ancient languages. For the others, see Romance studies.
 * Since we seem to be on the same wavelength, I went ahead and rewrote the lead. But if you disagree w something, please modify or revert. I'm not trying to own the article.
 * — kwami (talk) 18:30, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Just a nitpick, at least Oscan was still spoken in 1 AD, judging from the inscriptions found at Pompeii, and it would be highly unrealistic in the first place to assume that the Sabellic languages disappeared immediately after the Social War, rather than surviving a few centuries more. (It has been suggested, plausibly so in my opinion, that the development of the Latin vowel system in Italo-Western Romance was influenced by bilingualism with Sabellic.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:28, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
 * That's hardly nitpicking, esp. if they featured in the diversification of Latin into Romance. I reworded it, but please feel free to make it more accurate. I'm doing it myself because I don't see any reason to let the errors remain while we discuss them, not because I claim any expertise. — kwami (talk) 21:19, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks as always for your great input! The edits by kwami hit the nail on the head in my opinion. –Austronesier (talk) 07:06, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I am quite happy with Florian's proposed rewording, with a minor correction just for safety: "With the exception of Latin and its contemporary descendants, the Romance languages, all other Italic languages were extinct by the 2nd century BC...". However, I do believe that the term "Italic Languages" is generally understood to not include Romance. The inclusion seems to be a case of axe grinding indeed...--Jorge Stolfi (talk) 19:08, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
 * If that is the case, then what is the accepted term for Proto-Italic and its descendants? If the descendants of Proto-Germanic are Germanic languages, then are the descendants of Proto-Italic not Italic languages? Rua (mew) 19:25, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
 * That's exactly the point I was making with cladistics above ... it really makes no sense to arbitrarily exclude descendants from a family merely because of historical or social reasons. I don't know any analogous case in linguistics, actually. Of course the Romance languages are Italic – not only technically, but in every relevant sense. By the way, I think Jorge means kwami's proposed rewording, because I haven't proposed any. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:37, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Calvert Watkins paragraph ... what did he say about Italic?
The Calvert Watkins paragraph says that he suggested dividing Indo-European into four dialect areas -- but not mention which of the four Italic would be from. Given the placement, it also suggests that that he may see Italic as having originated as two separate language families (that later influenced each other by proximity). If so, that should be stated explicitly, and the original (directional) dialect of each should be listed.

For that matter, it would be best to clarify which languages the dual-origin theories do group together. (Is it the Latin group vs the Oscan-Umbrian group?) --JimJJewett (talk) 17:43, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

 * And why don't we have this in our IE or proto-IE articles? If it's important enough to include, the outline of the four branches should be in one of those articles, and the details relevant to Italic here. — kwami (talk) 18:59, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

It's actually 11 branches excluding Anatolian, which would be a fifth group, and ignoring several of the Balkan languages. The division is: He says "Each branch [i.e., each of the 10 branches] shares certain features with the nearest branch in the adjacent quadrants. The closest affinities of Anatolian are with the western group." but I don't know what he means by that. There aren't clear connections in his diagram -- e.g., Indo-Iranian is centered in its quadrant and isn't particularly close to anything, though graphically it's closest to Albanian (in the N) and Phrygian (in the S). Does Watkins mean that II shares the most features with Albanian and Phrygian? I can't tell. Since the other 3 quadrants each have 3 branches, I take it he means that Celtic and Germanic share features, as do Tocharian and Greek and perhaps the branches in the inner points of the pie slices: Italic w Albanian and Phrygian, Albanian w Italic and II, Phrygian w Italic and II.
 * East: Indo-Iranian
 * West: Celtic, Italic, Tocharian
 * North: Germanic, Balto-Slavic, Albanian
 * South: Phrygian, Armenian, Greek

But he says nothing about Italic not being a single node. (E.g. see p. 28.) That claim came from the EB, but that's hardly a RS for such a radical claim. Anyway, we only said "some authors doubt this common affiliation". Which authors? When? With no RS for any recent doubts as to the unity of Italic, and with the Watkins claims being so ambiguous, I deleted the whole paragraph. Though if you can make sense of it and can find some good sources to back it up, by all means please do so. — kwami (talk) 19:25, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

At Osco-Umbrian languages we say, [The] unitary scheme has been criticized by, among others, Alois Walde (1869–1924), Vittore Pisani (1899–1990) and Giacomo Devoto (1897–1974), who proposed a classification of the Italic languages into two distinct Indo-European branches. This view has gained acceptance in the second half of the 1900s, although the exact processes of formation and penetration into Italy remains the object of research.[Villar, cit., pp. 447–482.]
 * Villar, Francisco (1997). Gli Indoeuropei e le origini dell'Europa [Indo-Europeans and the origins of Europe] (in Italian). Bologna, Il Mulino. ISBN 88-15-05708-0.

The two groups are presumably Latino-Faliscan and Osco-Umbrian.

,, , , Is this POV notable enough to copy over to this article? The current wording we have for similar claims from e.g. Rix is so opaque that I don't know how many readers will understand it to mean a proposal that Latino-Faliscan and Osco-Umbrian are two independent branches of IE. In fact, from our summary, *I'm* not sure that's what they're saying. IMO we should start that section with a very simple lead sentence that restates the claims unambiguously. — kwami (talk) 20:13, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure. Some Italian and German scholars have in the 20th century doubted the consensus that Latino-Faliscan and Sabellic go back to Proto-Italic and treated them as two independent branches of Indo-European, which could be noted, but I don't think the opposition to Italic is relevant anymore; I think the viewpoint is now even more marginal and outdated than the idea of Slavic as an independent branch – especially after Rix in 2002 evidently retracted his former scepticism about Proto-Italic. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:37, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The problematic presentation actually already begins in the section "History of the concept". It opens with the use of "Italic" as a cover term for all ancient languages of the Italian region, without genetic significance. This is of course absolutely a minority view and not in accordance with commom usage in IE studies.
 * Fact is: the textbook view and also the majority view among IE-ists is that the Italic languages make up an innovation-defined branch of IE. Italo-sceptics are a small minority among IE-ists, but are (or were?) more significant when counting only scholars specialized in Italic studies, so this POV is clearly worth mentioning. –Austronesier (talk) 07:22, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
 * We are clearly in agreement. ("Italic" as a non-genetic cover term is a marginal use, likely outdated – Villar 1997 again? – and is more confusing than enlightening for the reader, so probably not worth mentioning and best off removed.) However, I must note that at this point the article rather places undue weight on the Italo-sceptic POV. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:54, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Regardless of what it's called, an article should have a coherent topic. (I'm not counting dab pages as articles.) This is our article on the Italic branch(es) of the IE family, so the text should be restricted to that topic. For other meanings, we could place a hatnote at the top saying 'for other uses, see Italic languages (disambiguation)' or 'see also 'Ancient languages of the Italian peninsula' or s.t. like that, and maybe those same links again in the External links section.

Yeah, the Italo-sceptic POV is probably over-emphasized, but even if we leave it all in, we need some evaluation of how accepted it is. If either of you know of any good sources for that, that would be useful. Just Rix's retraction would be a good start. — kwami (talk) 19:22, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Since the section is "History of the concept", even outmoded views should be mentioned (of course with note that they are outmoded). In particular, the very name "Italic Languages" and their lumping into one topic calls for an explanation: which seems to have been the original (unconscious?) definition "apparently IE, and spoken exclusively in the Italian peninsula". --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 19:24, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Good point. Wikipedia is not Wiktionary – here, articles are about concepts, not terms. Any meaning of "Italic languages" that diverges from the genetic definition, especially this strongly, doesn't belong here. If it is notable enough, it might merit its own article. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:43, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

 * The sharp contrast between the two schools of thought is quite visible in the two editions of the Routledge volume The Indo-European Languages:
 * Silvestri not only refutes the unity of the Latino-Faliscan languages and the Osco-Umbrian languages, but in fact restricts the use of the label "Italic" to the latter: "The label 'Italic languages' is nowadays used to refer collectively to a group of IE languages, which does not include Latin...". Wallace on the other hand accepts the traditional notion of an Italic subgroup, and naturally includes the Romance languages in this subgroup. –Austronesier (talk) 19:30, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! The fact that it is the older edition that opposes Italic and the newer edition that supports it as a matter of course is telling. I suspect that the virtual disappearance (or fall into irrelevance) of the opposition can be dated to the first decade of the century indeed, and Rix's change of heart and importantly his argument was probably a significant factor. (In a contribution from 2003, in Languages in Prehistoric Europe, he already treats Italic as fact, if I recall correctly.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 06:19, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Fortson 2010 does mention the opposition on p. 275, but only in two sentences in ch. 13.3, and proceeds to ignore it in what follows (I believe this was so already in the first edition, from 2004). This is strong evidence that we should treat it as largely historical. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 06:32, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks! The fact that it is the older edition that opposes Italic and the newer edition that supports it as a matter of course is telling. I suspect that the virtual disappearance (or fall into irrelevance) of the opposition can be dated to the first decade of the century indeed, and Rix's change of heart and importantly his argument was probably a significant factor. (In a contribution from 2003, in Languages in Prehistoric Europe, he already treats Italic as fact, if I recall correctly.) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 06:19, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Fortson 2010 does mention the opposition on p. 275, but only in two sentences in ch. 13.3, and proceeds to ignore it in what follows (I believe this was so already in the first edition, from 2004). This is strong evidence that we should treat it as largely historical. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 06:32, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

BC versus BCE
It seems to me that if we are using CE (and not AD) we should use BCE (and not BC). Or am I out of touch? Jlaramee (talk) 19:00, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Should we change the use of BC and AD in the article to BCE and CE?

I was about to do it myself but decided to get a consensus. My reasoning for changing it is that BC and AD mean "before Christ" and "in the year of our lord" respectively, which seems like a biased set of terms to have in an article. Thoughts?

Asparagusus (talk) 16:06, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia has no standard or house style on this subject. See WP:ERA. Editing an article practically only to change the convention is deprecated, and strongly advised against; it's considered pedantic, combative, and poorly regarded, almost like vandalism. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:59, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Referencing
The article is in a poor state of sourcing, which is required per the core principle of WP:Verifiability. I have tagged various sections as unreferenced or poorly referenced, and plan to start removing unsourced content after a decent interval, starting with the #Phonology section, and continuing on from there. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 00:21, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I've got access to a copy of this book: Stuart-Smith, Jane (2004), Phonetics and Philology: Sound Change in Italic, Oxford University Press, Oxford. Give me some time, I'll take care of #Phonology. The current version gives an oversimplified picture of the phonoloigcal history, but at the same time gives undue weight to things like the sporadic change of Latin d > l. –Austronesier (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks so much for this. (Here's a formatted ref for you; it also includes a hidden full-text url if you have login access via one of hundreds of universities or other institutions). For quite some time, I've noticed that among major topic areas, languages/linguistics has some of the worst state of sourcing of any of the topics that I'm aware of. I have this theory, that it's related somehow to Chomsky's "native competence" idea, namely, that everybody feels that they are (and indeed, they are) experts in their own language, and therefore feel qualified to add material unsourced to the article. However, even with legit expert ability, WP:Verifiability takes preference, for good reason. I'm sometimes tempted to reduce painstakingly developed articles on language or linguistics with 100kb, ten years, and 300 editors to a skeleton of what they were, because they are almost entirely unreferenced.  So far, I've held back, and am considering what approach to take. One possible approach was my message above, just sort of nibbling at the edges, waiting a more than decent interval, and then remove a section, then leave another message.  I think a more activist approach might be warranted, I'm just not sure what.  Maybe try to get something going at the project pages at WP:LING or WP:Languages. Thanks again, and looking forward to your changes. Mathglot (talk) 00:10, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes, occasionally, it stems from "native competence", but the same problem occurs in many articles about general linguistics. I think these pages were developed with much verve in an early stage of WP when adherence to WP:V seems to have felt optional even to good editors (that's at least how it appears to me, a relative newbie). And the field still has "experts" who apply WP:BLUESKY to things which aren't blue-sky-knowlegde even for experts (e.g. "per WP:BLUESKY, [x] in sources about Dutch and German actually refers to [χ], so we can use the latter even if the source writes the former" – believe it or not, I have read something like this in a talk page). And look at all the phonetics pages: the section "Features" is almost always unsourced (e.g. Voiceless retroflex plosive). In short: you have my full support. –Austronesier (talk) 11:03, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

The best known of them ...
The lead says
 * The best known of them is Latin

"them" referring to the italic languages. That is hardly true - I'd say Spanish and French are better known. I'm not sugesting writing that instead; I think the intention was to say something about Latin (but I'm not sure what, or how to say it). Possibly (but I don't know), the problem is that Italic is used in two different senses: A "monophyletic group" including the Romance languages, and a "paraphyletic group", including only Indo-European languages spoken in Italy (and not Romance languages in general).--Nø (talk) 19:11, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it. An IP changed the version which was the outcome of the discussion in Talk:Italic_languages above. –Austronesier (talk) 19:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Hadn't seen that discussion - thanks! Yes, "dinosaurs" are a good comparison. The modern stance is that birds are dinosaurs - and Romance languages are Italic, making groups monophylitic clades.--Nø (talk) 13:04, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Italic languages