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User talk:Instantnood/Archive 2

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 * style="border-bottom: 1px solid #C0C0F0""| Let me know if you have replied my message at your discussion page, by dropping a time stamp below. Alternatively, you are welcome to reply me at this discussion page. Thanks.
 * style="border-bottom: 1px solid #C0C0F0""| Let me know if you have replied my message at your discussion page, by dropping a time stamp below. Alternatively, you are welcome to reply me at this discussion page. Thanks.

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Constrainer — 01:47, May 17, 2005 Hello. Enjoy the discussion.
 * }/Archive 1 (January to March 2005, 58kb)

re:Your arbitration

 * Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration
 * AMA Requests for Assistance

AsylumInmate 09:36, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Hong Kong surnames
I've noticed you've been making/changing links to Category:Hong Kong surnames. Is this even necessary? Doesn't Category:Chinese family names cover it adequately? Not to mention that Category:Hong Kong surnames doesn't even exist yet. If you don't want people to remove the links to the category, you should at least create it. Perhaps put it as a sub-category of Category:Chinese family names. --Umofomia 07:30, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I will have to agree with them this time. I was not that fond of the category in the first place, since it's not completely Hong Kong specific. --Umofomia 18:16, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

I don't exactly know what to say about the matter currently, but I'll post something once I've had time to think about it. --Umofomia 20:29, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hong Kong and Macao in PD-China
I wish I knew the answer to that. Sorry. I found out about copyright in the PRC and ROC by leaving a message (in English) in the village pump of the Chinese Wikipedia, so you might try that. Hope this helps. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 11:29, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Re: Category:Foreign banks of Hong Kong
Yes, and I've voted to delete both. JuntungWu 15:34, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

CfD
I had to revert your last update to CfD to remove the many duplicate sections. Perhaps something went wrong when you posted? -Kbdank71 16:27, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

you said something
User_talk:SchmuckyTheCat (22:38, Apr 5, 2005)
 * reference
 * replied

Thank you
Thank you for supporting my adminship — I vow to use my super powers for good not evil. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 10:03, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Airport categories
Thanks for the reply. Hopefully, this will get sorted and we will have a consistent system we can apply across the board. Cheers. Burgundavia 10:30, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Naming Conventions (Taiwan vs ROC)
Quote from the 2nd paragraph of Naming conventions
 * reference
 * Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature.

 * I think that says it pretty well. =] LG-犬夜叉 18:46, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

Uhm, okay, but both the people as well as the government of Taiwan refer to themselves as Taiwan. You do not hear the term the Republic of China on the news by Western counties at all.

I understand that ROC it is the official name of the island state since KMT fled in 1949. However, my vote against that is simply because the majority of the world will recognize Taiwan much better than ROC, especially with the current situation across the Straight, Taiwan does not have formal diplomatic relations with most countries in the world.

Plus, a vote is a vote, you can't tell me NOT to vote for something. LG-犬夜叉 19:03, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * After my second reply I looked at the page more closely. I must point out that, if this must be enforced then why is there a poll with 'support' and 'oppose'??? LG-犬夜叉 19:16, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, UN does not have Taiwan as a memeber. If ROC was to be the name used on wikipedia, then Wikipedia is assuming that ROC is a legitimate country.
 * I must also make it clear that I am not an anti-Taiwanese-independence, nor am I pro-Taiwanese independence. I choose a neutral stance because both sides are at fault on this issue.
 * However since most of the world does not have relations with ROC politically, may I suggest that Taiwan is the better choice for most related article titles. LG-犬夜叉 19:16, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, but that's a lot of stuff to read.
 * To be honest, I won't read it. I guess I voted on that thing a little bit too early.  I don't have a problem with ROC or anything, it's just that I think Taiwan is much more commonly used than ROC.  You have my permission to remove my vote from that page. LG-犬夜叉 19:34, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

CfD restruct
Hi there! You voted on #4, but that's rather pointless unless #3 passes, so you may want to consider voting on #3. Yours, Radiant_* 15:25, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Double Jeopardy Policy on votes
Dear Instantnood, The articles involved in the vote initiated by You have been voted exactly one month ago. I belive that there should be a limit on initiating similiar kind of votes for the sake of everybody's time and energy. Thus, I have posted a Double Jeopardy on votes discussion to see if we can come up something to curtail this type of frivolous votes in the future. Please kindly spend some time and participate in that discussion if you have any suggestion and opinion on in this regard. Best regards. --Mababa 00:03, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

China airports CFD
Hi there! I may have been mistaken in xref'ing this to the entire China debate, I wasn't entirely sure but it felt safer to mention it anyway. Yours, Radiant_* 12:27, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

China - again
You have raised your case many, many times - and have failed to obtain a majority, let alone the required consensus, for your proposals. Please accept this. Continuing to re-raise the points in forum after forum is disruptive to Wikipedia. You are now proposing having another 25!!! votes. This shouldn't be a battle of attrition - and I'm sure we've all got more constructive things to do than argue this point on an ongoing basis.

I have listed your proposed new voting page for deletion. I would also ask you to remove it yoursel (you can mark it as a speedy delete), and to leave all these proposals alone for a while. Otherwise, it will end up with an ArbCom ban for you, jguk 13:07, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion

RfAr
Just to let you know that, frustrated at your new escalation of his arguments by opening 25 more votes on the same issue, I am enjoining myself to SchmuckyTheCat's ArbCom request on your behaviour. Kind regards, jguk 13:22, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration

Mediation
I took a look at the RFAr between you and the two other users. If this gets thrown out by the ArbCom I will take a look at this more closely and decide if I can be of any assistance, but until then, I will let the normal process happen. I realize that this might not be the answer you are looking for, but in cases where the ArbCom has been involved, I want things to be proper.
 * reference

Again, if it gets thrown out, I'll have a look. Inter\Echo 01:33, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

I see that you have people who are willing to assist you through the proceedings. If the case has been accepted, I would advise you to take up their offer. Inter\Echo 21:41, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Category: Religion in China | Category:Religion in the People's Republic of China
The second exists. The first doesn't. Why are you changing the category in Protestantism in China DDerby 08:14, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I read your NPOV position and it is consistent DDerby 08:23, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Arbitration
On behalf of User:jguk, I have filed a second arbcom case against you. Snowspinner 19:05, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

== AMAUTC)
 * replied

China airports CFD
Hi there! I may have been mistaken in xref'ing this to the entire China debate, I wasn't entirely sure but it felt safer to mention it anyway. Yours, Radiant_* 12:27, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

China - again
You have raised your case many, many times - and have failed to obtain a majority, let alone the required consensus, for your proposals. Please accept this. Continuing to re-raise the points in forum after forum is disruptive to Wikipedia. You are now proposing having another 25!!! votes. This shouldn't be a battle of attrition - and I'm sure we've all got more constructive things to do than argue this point on an ongoing basis.

I have listed your proposed new voting page for deletion. I would also ask you to remove it yoursel (you can mark it as a speedy delete), and to leave all these proposals alone for a while. Otherwise, it will end up with an ArbCom ban for you, jguk 13:07, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion

RfAr
Just to let you know that, frustrated at your new escalation of his arguments by opening 25 more votes on the same issue, I am enjoining myself to SchmuckyTheCat's ArbCom request on your behaviour. Kind regards, jguk 13:22, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration

Mediation
I took a look at the RFAr between you and the two other users. If this gets thrown out by the ArbCom I will take a look at this more closely and decide if I can be of any assistance, but until then, I will let the normal process happen. I realize that this might not be the answer you are looking for, but in cases where the ArbCom has been involved, I want things to be proper.
 * reference

Again, if it gets thrown out, I'll have a look. Inter\Echo 01:33, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

I see that you have people who are willing to assist you through the proceedings. If the case has been accepted, I would advise you to take up their offer. Inter\Echo 21:41, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Category: Religion in China | Category:Religion in the People's Republic of China
The second exists. The first doesn't. Why are you changing the category in Protestantism in China DDerby 08:14, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I read your NPOV position and it is consistent DDerby 08:23, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Arbitration
On behalf of User:jguk, I have filed a second arbcom case against you. Snowspinner 19:05, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

AMA Request for Assistance
I am inclined to accept; however, before I do, please leave at my talk page the following:
 * reference

1) A brief (<500 words) synopsis of the dispute thus far, its nature, the primary players, and the efforts to solve it — you may assume passing familiarity with not only the nature of the dispute itself but also its historical background;

2) Your opinion on whether you want to oppose arbitration or accept it as a mechanism to conclude the situation;

and 3) A statement of your willingness to work with me, answer all queries completely and truthfully, maintain civility towards other users during the course of arbitration on all pages (this would seem like a given, but I've had some people...), and your guarantee that you will refrain from editing any pages in contention (talk pages are okay, insofar as the conversation is kept civil per the aforesaid). Wally 20:56, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

 * In light of your reply, I would be happy to accept your case.

 * Please drop me your e-mail address so we might speak further in some privacy. I especially want to discuss my thoughts on the arbitration.

 * For clarification, you are, of course, the beginning and end of my involvement to the case. I am obligated to honesty and integrity first, your interests second, and any other consideration is not on the map. I serve at your pleasure, act at your whim, and am available for dismissal or recall as you like. In practice, the more leeway you can give me on any given issue the better, and as my past and present clients will attest I take significant store in appraising you of any action I take or propose to take. I, obviously, will not at any time withhold any information — pertinent or no, important or no — that relates to this case, and will alert you at any point a conflict-of-interest presents itself. I also will make no statements about the issue to anyone you do not specifically authorize, nor will I consider myself at liberty to discuss anything about the case to anyone but you. I figure that if I ask guarantees to you, the least I can do is offer some of my own.

 * I look forward to speaking soon. Yours, Wally 21:44, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry to meddle, but I just noticed that you said over at User talk:Wally: "I will refrain to edit the pages in contention, given that all parties do not make further controversial edit that is in contradiction with the current set of naming conventions." Just want to assure you that the contentious pages are usually closely watched and edits that run counter to the naming conventions quickly reverted. I know, because I have several such pages on my watchlist and basically never need to revert anything – by the time I notice something, it's usually already been reverted. What I'm getting at is this: try to stay away from the contentious pages for now, including talk pages if at all possible, no matter what your opponents may do. Don't allow yourself to be drawn/baited/sucked into further debates. It may work against you, and as far as preserving the status quo is concerned, we've pretty much got that part covered. --MarkSweep 22:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd be happy to work with him. Have him drop me a line, would you? Also, I have set up a comments page for your case specifically: direct further stuff to User_talk:Wally/Instantnood_advocacy. Wally 22:07, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration
You should write a short, simple, straightforward statement of your position, keeping very calm. If you want to show it to me before placing it on the page, I'd be hapy to advise you on it. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 21:00, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * reference

Ogh, I've just seen that you have an excellent person to assist you. If you want my help, I'll be happy to give it, but I think that you're in safe hands. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 21:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

RFAr
If you would like me to serve as your advocate I would be happy to, let me know and I'll take a look at the case and get back to you so we can discuss further. --Wgfinley 21:36, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * reference

 * BTW, just saw that you asked for Wally's help as well. Wally is also an exceptional advocate and my caveats would be the same as his (other than the explanation, I'll gather some info myself and then we can chat online) but particularly the last requirement he has is VERY important for me being able to best serve you as an advocate, we have to be on the same page.  --Wgfinley 22:05, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

I've taken a look at the dispute, it appears the case that Jguk brought is going to go forward. I would be happy to serve as your advocate on this and I will coordinate efforts with Wally. Would like to hook up with you online sometime to discuss. You can usually find me in the Wikipedia IRC room, you can also reach me as progboatguy72 on AIM. If you use another messenger let me know, I pretty much use them all but have been trying to consolidate to AIM lately. --Wgfinley 23:18, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I just completed a proposed response to the Arb case. check out the link to review it and let me know if you agree and I will get it put up. --Wgfinley 00:37, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Several pieces of advice. First of all, stay calm. You've been quite good at that, your opponents have not. Second, it may be good to voluntarily limit your activities on these polls while the case is pending (you may not have a choice if the ArbCom issues a preliminary injunction). Third, the way I've seen these cases happening in the past is that the ArbCom first decides on findings of fact and findings of law before considering remedies. Your case is tied to the naming conventions, and even though the ArbCom was specifically asked not to rule on the conventions, it would IMHO still be appropriate for them to consider including certain aspects of those conventions into their findings of fact. For example, it would appear to me that many of the moves you proposed are in fact in accordance with (perhaps even required by) the naming conventions. If the ArbCom were to issue a finding of fact that (all/the majority of/a significant portion of) the moves you requested did in fact follow from the naming conventions, this would IMO strengthen your case. I think a carefully worded request regarding the facts that need to be established (limit it to no more than a handful) would be quite helpful. Let me know if I can help out in any way, though I don't have any specific experience handling ArbCom cases. --MarkSweep 21:40, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied
 * Ok, I'll try to stay informed about the ArbCom proceedings, but feel free to alert me if anything important is about to happen. --MarkSweep 22:18, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re:I need your help
I see you've already secured an advocate, so you should be in good hands. I've left my opinion on his advocacy page. --Umofomia 22:54, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

You need my help
Hi Instantnood, I would suggest securing your own AMA advocate (I hate the AMA), which you appear to have already done. If you need any support in voting or anything, please e-mail me ( something@something.com ) because I don't frequently check my talkpage. Also, after you read this message, please write my e-mail address down on a piece of paper or something and remove it from this page so it's not available to spam robots. --Node 23:37, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

arbitration
Hey Instantnood,
 * reference

I don't think I've been following the issues closely enough to say all that much. I am terribly unsympathetic to jguk on this issue, since it seems to me like he's seeking to make his own ignorance into wikipedia policy. Furthermore, I remain somewhat confused about what exactly has been done that warrants Arbcom intervention. That said, I don't feel like I've followed it closely enough to make an intelligent comment on the arbitration page. For instance, Snowspinner refers to wanting to stop "edit wars." On the pages I've seen, I've not noticed anyone involved in an edit war, but I'm not sure I'm fully aware enough of what has been going on to say for sure. It seems to me that what should really be done is some hard work to figure out what the naming convention for these issues should be. And that this should be done in a way where it is explicitly made clear how different things should be referred to. I think that they way you've been going forward with this - with the multiple votes, and all, has not proved terribly successful. Votes, in general, rarely work out too well. Whenever I start a vote I just become more and more infuriated as it goes along...anyway, I hope things work out okay - I don't think you've done anything to warrant sanctions, certainly. john k 23:48, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Re : I need your help
Hi Instantnood,
 * reference

Sorry to hear that you're going for arbitration, but I believe things shouldn't turn out as bad as it really seems. You should be in a relatively stable position with two advocates at your assistance, so for now I'll just watch the case closely. In the meantime, just stay calm, don't worry! :)

- Best regards, Mailer Diablo 11:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Arb Filing Response
Instantnood -- Wally and I got together with some other users and have completed the response to Jguk's filing. Please take a look at it and let us know of any changes you would like to make, nothing's sent in stone on it. Hope you are pleased with the result. Best regards. --Wgfinley 05:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Glad you were pleased. Thanks for the reference to that page where you've been compiling information, you're the easiest client yet!!  Will make sure we go through it when it comes time for the evidence phase.  I think there are many arbitrators away right now so things are a bit snagged at the moment, might not be for a few days yet until it is accepted.  --Wgfinley 06:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

What names do you want?
The "case file" says:

 * Specifically, he advocates a name change where by the People's Republic of China would be referred to as "mainland China" whereas Taiwan would be called "ROC."

Does this mean that you want the article about the PRC to be placed at Mainland China? Or that in some or all articles about China, you see a need to refer to the non-ROC-controlled parts as Mainland China? Or the non-ROC, non-SAR parts as Mainland China?

Are you doing this, and if so, why is this important to you?

I thought the rule was to follow the consensus of general English usage. And in the West, at least, the term "mainland China" generally refers informally to either the PRC or to the PRC + the SAR's

''Oh, ... maybe now I get it! The PRC has two meanings:''

 * 1) it means the Communist government which claims all of China, and by extension it therefore means "China"
 * 2) it means the Communist government (as above), but it refers only to the territory which the PRC actually controls, such as the "mainland" or mainland + SAR's

Thank God I'm a computer programmer and know about Boolean logic.

Look, I just want to clear up the confusion. I'm not on anyone's side; and I'm not against anyone. I only want the articles to describe the Chinese situation as accurately as possible. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 20:24, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

(see Chinese naming controversy)
 * replied

Archiving
Hi Instantnood. The usual way of archiving is to create a red /archive-example link to a sub-page, click on that link to edit the new sub-page, and then cut content from the original page and paste it into the archive page. That has the advantage of preserving the history of the original page. I believe that moving the page to its archive location, like you did, will have unintended side effects: since links to diffs are treated like external links with a full URL, previously created links to diffs on the original page will break, because its history is now gone. I'm not sure if there are such links in connection with your RfC and RfAr's (it's hard to check, because they are external links), but if there are, they will no longer work, I think. Just to avoid giving off the wrong impression here ("suppressing evidence"), it may be best to ask an admin to restore your talk page and its history, and then create another archive by cut-and-paste. Cheers, --MarkSweep 21:30, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Your ArbCom case
Just to let you know that I am closely following your case and I am considering involving myself further into your case. JuntungWu 14:10, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Meeting
I don't know if you're familiar with or ever make use of IRC, but if possible I would like to set-up a real-time meeting there between yourself, myself and WG to discuss the case and plan out how we're going to handle it. Also, I would like your e-mail (I'm requesting WG's too) so that we might communicate in private. Mine's Paintball5320@aol.com (trite name, I know, and it's AOL too, but I'm a l4m0rz ;] ). For the IRC meeting, I'm in the United States Eastern Time Zone (and we're also in Daylight Savings') so at the moment I believe I'm UTC -4. We've a lot to discuss, and there's no time to lose! Wally 16:05, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Written Cantonese
I have just written a message on User Talk:Yuje and noticed your conversation with Yuje. You might be interested in the Talk:Cantonese (linguistics) page where the Yuje's WP:RM request to move "Written Cantonese" is being discussed. --Philip Baird Shearer 08:47, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Categories for deletion/Restructuring
Please revisit this and vote on #2C and #6 (variations on earlier proposals). Yours, Radiant_* 15:31, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

A few questions
My friend Instantnood, I have posted my last few questions in the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)/NPOV/Taiwan vs. ROC page. Please stop by and take on your reponsibility to address people's concern. I would be looking forward to your comment. Thank you. :) --Mababa 05:24, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * My friend Instantnood, Thank you for your reply on my talk page. I really apprecited it. However, I would like to remind you that your dispute and effort to initiate votes on Taiwan-related articles are the ones with the trait of repetitiveness. Your position on the currently voting regulation (which do not adhere to Wikipedia voting standard) in the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)/NPOV/Taiwan vs. ROC, contrary to your reply, is not clear to me.

 * I think you and your advocates probably have misunderstood the arbitration as the means to determine the outcome of your votes. However, to my understanding, arbitration process do not determine how the vote to be conducted and do not exonerate your responsibility loaded upon your shoulder either. I am not certain if your advocate's suggestion to ignore people's concern are wise and would actually help people understand your arguement or would actually produce adversary effect on the public impression on your neglecting move over this discussion.

 * The concerns over the fairness and justness of the voting rule applied by you are legitimate and genuine concerns, not contentious discussion at all, as you and your advocates worked hard to label them as such. I have already voiced my Wiki leave on that issue so that you would not mistake it as a contention you can opted to walking away. Please understand that your responsibility toward today's vote (which is very much still alive) is not linked to the arbitration between you and other Wikipedians. Please also demonstrate us your Wikiquette and your responsibility as a conscientious voting initiator. I am still looking forward to your answer on that page. :) --Mababa 02:13, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I think your advocate has confused the arbitration case with the voting rule twist debate. Please take a look if you are interested. Reference Thanks.--Mababa 04:36, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * replied
 * Greetings Instantnood, glad to recieve your reply. However, I have to disagree with your point of view and point out flaws in your logic. I do agree that your position is always the same; contrary to your claim, your position is everything other than being open the passing rule. Let me break down the logic.

Update: I have added a new page for case-by-case poll at /Taiwan vs. ROC. — Instantnood 12:14, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Source

 * 1.I created the page, but I am not conducting the polls. The polls belong to Wikipedia.
 * You are conducting the poll in the name of Wikipedia. In your page, you claim that your voting rule is derived from the authority under Wikipedia; however, you twisted it from the rough consensus to the simple majority(>50%), either deliberately or accidentally. Starting from that day, it should be regarded as the poll conducted by you, not Wikipedia. You changed the Wikipedia's voting rule without discussion or consensus. Wikipedia should have nothing to do with that vote initiated by you. Participants were gulled by your misleading regulation on that day when you put your voting page on.

 * 2.And as the polls have been started and votes were cast, any change to the passing rule has to be discussed and agreed by the participants, i.e. I cannot, and I'm not in a position, to change it unilaterally.
 * Again you confused the voting process on your proposal with voting process on your voting rule. When participants casted their vote, they casted their vote in good faith assuming you are acting in good faith. Innocent participants either endorse your proposal or oppose your proposal, but by no means their votes are endorsing your voting rule. You mislead innocent participants that their vote would be counted under Wikipedia regulation, where in fact you changed the rule to favor passing your proposals. Again, without consensus or discussion. Yes, innocent participants who holds good faith in the voting process were mislead by you. And, you have every reason, position and responsibility to rescue your reputation of acting in good faith to assure people would not feel cheated. Failing to correct them would seriously affect the validity/legitimacy of the vote you conducted. The legitimacy being mentioned here is due to potential bad faith, not the constant/repetitive debate behavior which has been brought for arbitration. Moreover, if your logic stands, then when you casted your first vote, you have already instate your own voting rule. You do not need any participant's vote to secure your own voting rule. Needless to mention that the innocent participants were unaware of the twist and only assume your good faith when you claimed the rule following Wikipedia's request for move.

 * 3.The issue is now part of a pending arbitration case, and people involved should refrain from likely contentious discussions.
 * I do not see the logic here. If I remember correctly, the arbitration case were filed over whether your constant debate and voting is warranted. It does not touch the issue of your ungenuine voting rule. Arbitration case seemed to be unrelated.

 * Lastly, I wonder if your reluctance for assuming your responsibility to correct the voting rule would serve you best during the arbitration. I would assume that when an outsider reads through the page, he would think you conducted your vote in a very convenient way, a)passing rule are changed in a favorable direction but still portrayed as following Wikipedia rule, b)votes against me does not count c)if the proposal failed, arbitration process would help to pass them.

 * This aside, I think today's discussion is still quite productive. I have fully understand your position that you do not think you are responsible for that misleading twist and also that you have no intention to correct it even when people protested the difference and even when you self-portrayed as open. This really helps a lot. I think there is no more confusion. Let me wish you best luck in the arbitration and hope the best satisfying result from it. You have a good day.--Mababa 05:32, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

about hong kong dollar..
may we discuss the recent reverse of Hong Kong Dollar page? - 218.103.159.85 16:28, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at talk:Hong Kong dollar

Chinese language(s)
It's probably wiser not to try to bring up more discussions of changing the name of articles related to China. Least not such a major one. Not when there's still an ArbCom case against you about very similar issues. I really don't think the matter is valid. There is nothing to confuse it with, the name change will only be symbolic and the most common term still remains the one we're using now. Peter Isotalo 22:18, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Arbitration Committee case opening
The Arbitration request now entitled Instantnood, et al. has been accepted. Although you have advocates, you may still, if you wish, bring your own evidence to Requests for arbitration/Instantnood, et al./Evidence. Thank you. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 20:37, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)

 * I'm posting here, assuming that Wally and Wgfinley are watching your talk page. First of all, we should be all glad that this whole matter is one step closer to resolution. I think one of the first things you might want to do (if possible under the arbitration rules, which I'm not sufficiently familiar with) is to consolidate all your replies. Currently there is still your old reply to jguk there, pointing out that this is a content dispute. As several people (myself included) have said before, the ArbCom will probably not make any decisions about content. If that is the generally accepted view, it would be important to remove your own comments about content and focus primarily on policy enforcement. Also, it will be important to make sure that the debate stays away from specific controversial aspects of the article contents (e.g. what, if anything, is the meaning of "mainland China"?) and instead focusses on issues of procedure (how should the community determine the applicability of the naming conventions?) and enforcement (how should the community enforce the naming conventions, if the community deems them applicable?). IMHO the ArbCom need not resolve those issues directly. Rather it should make findings of fact (did anything happen that violated policies?) and of law (are the naming conventions part of specialized policy and enforceable as such?) within the scope of arbitration, which excludes matters of article content. --MarkSweep 20:50, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Standard Mandarin and Vernacular Chinese
Well, in Mainland China, Standard Mandarin is defined to have the grammar of Vernacular Chinese. Vernacular Chinese in this case is defined as exemplary writing of modern writers not in the Classical style. -- ran (talk) 02:13, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference

Well.. to be frank I'm not quite sure, though I suspect that Standard Mandarin is basically elevated Northern speech given official status, and Vernacular Chinese is elevated Northern speech put on paper. -- ran (talk) 19:34, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

 * It should be noted though that written Vernacular Chinese has features resembling some patterns in Classical Chinese that are not found in spoken Standard Mandarin. The use of these features is called 書面語.  --Umofomia 19:47, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think you can definitively say one was derived from the other since they basically evolved together around the same time period (although written Vernacular Chinese did have a much earlier start). Vernacular Chinese didn't directly come from Classical Chinese though, since it's predominantly of Mandarin structure, but Classical elements were retained for more formal writing.  --Umofomia 20:56, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

 * replied (to Ran, to Umofomia)

Nanyang
I'm assuming that you want the disambiguation page to be Nanyang (disambiguation). I've merged the material from Nanyang, and turned it into a redirect. The two edit histories shouldn't be merged, though, as the two pages continue to exist. (I didn't check, but Isuspect that it wouldn't be possible anyway, as it would require interleaving the dit histories.) I hope that that's OK. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 17:58, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

I do not think there was any disagreement with the usage of Nanyang as the disambig page, and for Nanyang (disambiguation) to be removed, so why the latest changes?--Huaiwei 18:19, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Re: Teresa Teng and category:Cantopop
I posted a comment with more sources that point out she's a Cantopop singer. --Umofomia 20:50, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * references (Umofomia, Mailer diablo)

Apologies for the lack of reply, I was away for the past week. I'll just take a look, although unlikely to add any new comment at this time. :) - Regards from, Mailer Diablo 18:40, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I was away as well, so it looked like I just dropped out of the conversation. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I replied to Huaiwei's last comment.  --Umofomia 00:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 * replied (to Umofomia, to Mailer diablo)

Happy Corner
Can you give a minute to proofread the article? thx SYSS Mouse 22:23, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

new Hong Kong transport stubs
Hi Instantnood - I see that you have created two new stub categories. Given you've been involved with debates at WikiProject Stub sorting in the past, you should know that new stub categories are normally cleared there before creation. That way they can be vetted to check that there are a viable number of stubs (at least 60-100) and that the category does not cross the existing stub hierarchy before the stub is created.

If you can provide any information on why the stub was created, please add a note to entry for the stub at WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria giving the reason for it. In addition, if there is any Wikiproject associated with the stub add that information. Thanks.

In the case of these stubs, there are two things which probably wouldn't have passed muster at WP:WSS. First, the suggestion would have been that the two categories should have been combined into one, since the same editors would be likely to be involved in the expansion of both types of article - possibly named something like HK-trans-stub, to cover all ong Kong transportation stubs. Secondly, the names of the stubs don't fit in with WP:WSS policy (there is no hyphen between the words). Theis last point seems trivial, but for the sake of editors, having as much uniformity in stub names as possible is a huge advantage. Grutness...  wha?  01:35, 11 May 2005 (UTC) Apologies for the misattribution - I saw your name as creator of the categories, I think, and assumed wrongly. Sigh. No offence taken, I hope! Grutness...  wha?  05:52, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria
 * replied

Hong Kong
Thanks for the info on Hong Kong, with reference. It appears you're right; I fixed my list.
 * reference

Also, I knew about PD-Germany. It's too bad that I was misinformed about Germany's copyright. (To understand the subtleties of the difference between "photographs" and "photographic works", one really has to dig through German case law, not just the treaties, and my German is, unforfortunately, not up to the task.) I don't know what this means for images of Nazi Germany. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 16:04, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Name policy
It's not all about the hatin' brutha. Come state your piece. Deletion policy/names and surnames SchmuckyTheCat 06:42, 13 May 2005 (UTC) and since you're involved with other naming projects (HK Surnames) and I'm not... you should get them to respond to that policy as well. SchmuckyTheCat 19:41, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at Wikipedia:Deletion policy/names and surnames
 * replied

Complaints about HKALE
Hello. I'm writing to complain that user Carlsmith keeps making meaningless information in the article of HKALE (both Chinese and English version) as follows:

Since 2001 the format of the exam in each paper has undergone rapid changes each year in order to discourage rigorous practice on past exam papers, such as by offering open-ended questions instead of textbook-focused ones. Through such changes, the HKEAA also tried to prevent candidates from rote-memorizing course materials in cultural understanding. This, however, brought criticisms from many candidates on the examination as "pouring of saliva" with no objective grading standards to follow. + -   +  - The format of the reading comprehension part (Paper 1B) of the 2005 examination, without prior notice, was changed from speed reading of seven to eight articles to normal reading of three articles. This sparked discontent among some candidates, who, in protest, parodied on the phrase "stirring, brewing, squeezing" (攪切榨) which appeared on the paper from Middle Age is Afternoon Tea (中年是下午茶), an essay by Tong Chiao (董橋). The HKEAA, however, insisted that there were no flaws in the paper, for there has never been a prescribed format for the paper. An article with the phrase as its title appeared for a while on Chinese Wikipedia, and was swiftly removed by administrators after holding a Votes for Deletion on it. --Mcy jerry 05:58, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Complaint regarding vandalism of HKALE + considering protect request
Within seven days, the section as described by Mcy_jerry was deleted by that user and an unknown user. Simply, Mcy_jerry described the section as "meaningless", "gramma[tically]... [un]satisfactory" and confusing.

I have modified the section above-mentioned and see if anyone objects it, and they should express their opinions on the article's talk page before further modification or deletion.

If any further modification is unsubstantiated by detailed reasoning (which should be regarded as vandalism), I shall be considering requesting protection of the page from the administrators.

--Carlsmith 05:07, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied by Mcy_jerry, see correspondent user's talk page (extracted): I have my stance fully illustrated in the talk page. On the other hand, arguably, CarlSmith should give out appropriate explanation to his part of writing as well, otherwise that TOO could be a vandalism--vandalism could refer to inappropriate actions of subtracting and, at the same time, adding data. Mcy jerry 10:31, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

 * responded at Wikipedia talk:Hong Kong wikipedians' notice board

Qinghai, Gansu, Heilongjiang
Oh, but I already did :D. The new locator maps for Qinghai, Gansu and Heilongjiang (and every other province) show the new borders. -- ran (talk) 15:20, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Re: Kwun Tong
Certainly. Ysw1987 14:08, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Proposed revision on Mainland China
Thanks for your review. I'm sorry that I could not agree with some your edits for purely syntactical reasons. I would think economics and politics encompass trade and statistics. It is also preferable to use English translations where possible in an English encyclopaedia: an English reader who's not familar with Chinese might be confused when he suddenly comes to a strange-looking diacritic'ed dàlù which is not properly explained, as the first mention of the term is in parenthesis which might be taken as ignorable.

Regarding to Zǔguó Dàlù, this google search may suggest it's popularity among Chinese leadership. -- Alassius (talk) 15:07, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied
 * But I thought "mainland" is "dalu"! It is the literal translation isn't it?
 * Statistics is a tool. People do not conduct statistical research for statistical purposes, they do that for economic or political purposes. Besides, good writing should be concise. Listing all possible contexts does little more that cluttering the text. What do you think? -- Alassius (talk) 22:11, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Just read an article by a columnist Koo Tak-ming of the Apple Daily, Hong Kong, talking about the use of "mainland". In English-speaking countries, people use "mainland" to refer the large mass of land forming a continent barring its outlying islands, e.g. the mainland Europe.

 * But in fact, "mainland" can also refer to a country, as Oxford Advanced Learners' Dictionary (4th Edition) has clearly stated. Thus, "mainland China" is not a proper noun--similar situations as in "mainland America" and "mainland Italy". Furthermore, American Heritage Dictionary has already recorded the popular name "mainland Edition" in its newest edition.--Jerry Crimson Mann 08:59, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * In Chinese, the phrase is used as a proper noun with clear boundary (although contested in Wikipedia) which does not coincide with "the mainland of China" like "mainland America" does. It includes offshore islands as large as Belgium, while excluding Hong Kong and Macau which are on the mainland.
 * The question Instantnood raised is of a different nature, i.e. whether mainland China is a translation of dalu which has later been borrowed as a translation of neidi, or should dalu and neidi be treated as origins of same importance of the term mainland China. -- Alassius (talk) 11:33, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

 * see discussion at talk:Mainland China

Chinese wikipedians' notice board
Hiya, Instantnood.

So you have recommended the HK wikipedians' notice board to me a few days ago, and I'm now flaming keen to write several articles realted to HK. Pretty fun, eh? Yet, I wonder whether there would be a similar board for China's issues. If yes, please inform me.

Enjoy! =)--Jerry Crimson Mann 15:12, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Hong Kong International Airport
World record holder for what? Isn't this category kind of large and POV? Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 15:01, May 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * replied
 * Thanks for the reply. Hmm, the cat should probably be renamed to mention the Guiness. Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 00:08, May 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, that I have listed it on CFD: Categories_for_deletion--Huaiwei 05:59, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Chinese names
I want to start a data field about Lee Pik Wah. But when I searched for some information of hers via search engines, I, by accident, found that her English name was Lilian actaully. Then, what should be the name of the mentioned entry: Lilian Lee or Lee Pik Wah?

Jerry Crimson Mann 08:18, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Vitasoy
Finally I've got this article finished, a pretty long entry from nearly nothing! Please feel free to have a look of it, and make any improvement if possible. =-D Jerry Crimson Mann 21:24, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Stub category
Hi Instantnood - I thought I'd try to preempt all the problems we had with China-geo-stub etc earlier by coming to you directly with this... there is now a new stub category: China-bio-stub. The hope is that this can be used for all of the one or two (whichever you prefer) China(s). Let's face it, a large proportion of the stubs in here are likely to be historical figures from before 1948 or during the period of schism between the mainland and Taiwan/ROC. Also, the editors who address these articles are likely to know at least something about people from both sides of the strait. The wording of the stub template has been left deliberately vagues ("this biography of a Chinese person..."). Can we try to make do with one template, at least for now? :) Grutness...  wha?  12:26, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, hopefully the Taiwanese identity thing won't be too big a hurdle. I'll make a note at WP:WSS/C suggesting that the HK category isn't made a subcategory (whether people pay any notice is another matter, of course...) Grutness...  wha?  12:55, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm ahead of you, at least on one count - I was leaving a note for Mababa on his talk page when your message arrived! I'll add a note on the Taiwanese notice board like you suggest. Grutness...  wha?  13:09, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

(Oh, and while I was there I answered your question about "Japanese Formosa" stamps. :) Grutness...  wha?  13:30, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Re: pictures
Well, I'm trying so hard to make both Wan Chai and Vitasoy WP:FACs, and I've just made an animated gif about Wan Chai's reclamation. Please feel free to have a look at them. With luck, further information will be added into the Wan Chai article.
 * reference

PS For your concern, I've changed the pics of some Hong Kong-related stub templates -- and they're animated! ;P

PPS Just out of curiosity: how could you make minor edits, particularly in Hong Kong stuff, that quicky just after a short moment prior to previous corrections!!?? As Cecilia Cheung said: it's crazy amazing! -- that's my response to your speediness! --Jerry Crimson Mann 08:05, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Gee, thanks for telling me of your "speedy secret"! =P Well, it's really much of drudgery to complete the Wan Chai page; some city pages of other countries like the New York City are really well-detailed, making me extremely envied. ;P So could you give me any suggestion on further imrpovement of the page? I want it really badly to be an WP:FAC some day!
 * Btw my next target would be concentrating on the handover of Hong Kong, as I have heaps of secondary resouces in hand. Would you tell me where to kick-start my idea?
 * Again, thanks a million dollars! You did save me from relentless confusion and despair! ;)
 * -- Jerry Crimson Mann 17:18, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * PS gonna delete the first frame of the animated gif about reclamation.
 * Are there shortcuts to change the filenames? How can I create a common gallery in Wikimedia? -- Jerry Crimson Mann 11:38, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks a million dollars! —Jerry Crimson Mann 17:55, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

SOS!~!!!!!
Some guys just wanted to delete the pic Image:Hkicon.gif by removing from the stb template by himself, withou previous notification, and declared it a orphane!!!!!That's too offensive! --Jerry Crimson Mann 21:28, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) see Images and media for deletion

 * Zscout370 did notify Jerry Crimson Mann (Mcy jerry), who attached it to the Hong Kong stub, before listing it in IfD (granted, apparently only one minute before listing it). This was the only place the image was in use, I believe. Given the apparent backlog on IfD, there is plenty of time to civilly discuss the deletion. HorsePunchKid → 龜  22:29, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC)
 * I think you're misunderstanding me. I did say he made no notification--a previous notification. He made it AFTER he'd transferred the pic into ifd, and I'm not satified with that. The whole thing is just like a conspiracy: he removed it, made it orphaned, dumbed it into the deletion pages...
 * Backlog? I've seen a lot! But the entire negotiation will be kick-started in a horrific guillotine...and I can't just stand the spookiness. Why not sit down and have a nice chat over a cuppa? Btw, I'm feeling extremely exhauseted right now, so I won't invole in the dispute in the near future.-- Jerry Crimson Mann 22:35, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Templates for MTR and KCR

 * reference

I haven't been expecting that the new style is so welcomed! Yes, it would definitely be wonderful. PZFUN came up with the new style, then I combined the livery and names for each station. May be we can have a standard template with the stations filled in as parameters, and that may save the hassle of editing the tables, since that was quite a tedious task!

You are doing a good job too, by adding the "Opened" column. I don't have those data at hand yet, so if you know them you can add them there first. -Carlsmith 06:34, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Name issue for KCRC Rail lines
I would like to ask for your opinion on the names before going on editing.

Article names
Should it be West Rail (KCR) instead of West Rail (KCRC)? In the news, I heard KCR more often than KCRC when refering to the corporation's lines.
 * I back up the former one...KCR is a railway whereas KCRC is a corporation. I don't think people would ride on KCRC! =) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 06:45, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Links
Should it be KCR West Rail or KCR West Rail?

-Carlsmith 06:34, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied (to Carlsmith, to Jerry)

Miriam Yeung
See this page. Is there any way we can do to get the meat out of all those biased statements?

-Carlsmith 06:34, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Your revert
Would you explain please why you inserted the word "station"? Its completley redundant. Causeway Bay Station is a station on the Hong Kong MTR. There's no need for it, and it is not used in any of the other MTR station articles. Thank you. Páll 07:59, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Page moves
Hello, sorry to bother you again, but you simply must discuss such large name changes as the ones you are making to the train lines. The MTR talk page is the suitable place for htis. I am reverting yoru changes until a consensus is reached. Thank you. Páll 08:02, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Discussion
I've started a dicussion on the MTR formatting on the talk page of the link you sent me. Would appreciate your feedback, but for now let's avoid editing the MTR articles apart from non-controversial edits. Let's not move any articles until a consensus is reached. Páll 08:16, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * responded at WP talk:HKWNB

Re:Cut and paste move
I know that's sloppy editing, but I'm to lazy too ask for a request to move ;). Phlebas 17:28, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * The thing that made me move it was rail transportation, while all articles on Rail transport by country use transport. Phlebas 17:35, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Re:Huaiwei
Well, what I can do is merely to shrug my shoulder and, sympathetically, say: "hard luck"; after all, I've tried my best to cease the argument. I think time is need to cool the flame down...waiting would be a living agony, though. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:27, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

WP:AN/3RR
For future reference, please note that the instructions at the top of the page say "Please add new listings at the ***BOTTOM*** of this page, just before the 'Report new violation" header'." When you reported User:Huaiwei, you stuck it at the top. The archiving process goes easier when stuff is in order. Thanks. Noel (talk) 04:47, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied
 * No problem. Noel (talk) 06:59, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

HKD
I think we should rearrange this impoartant article of Hong Kong. I see the USD page would be a good example to follow; there're some points which are highly appreciated, particularly those shipshape tables -- spic-and-span. Some queries though: how can we upload pics of HK currency? Would that violate any rules or laws? What kind of tag, furthermore, should be applied to the images? I hope this project would gaonna be our next big success. :-D -- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:21, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) PS Didn't see you here yesterday...mind telling me why? ;)
 * replied

Which country does Hong Kong belong to?
Mr. Instanthood, as you are one of the major contributor of Hong Kong-related articles, I hope you can pay attention to my post "Which country does Hong Kong belong to?" in the Hong Kong Wikipedia discussion board. Thanks.

Hong Kong Man 14th June, 2005

- HongKongMan 00:10/00:11, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

- Hong Kong Man
 * Please see my response in the Hong Kong Wikipedian's Notice Board. I elaborated on why it is better to include the word "China". But besides that, I really don’t like the fact that every time I type in “Hong Kong, China” in an article that I wrote, the word “China” is deleted so quickly. I will keep on preserving the word “China”. But if the word “China” keeps being deleted, my friends and I will consider stop contributing Hong Kong-related articles in English Wikipedia. I may also consider deleting all the Hong Kong-related pictures that I uploaded.

Producing audio files
Do you have the slightest idea of how audio files are produced in the format of *.ogg, which is the only compatible format for Wikipedia? I've seen there're Japanese pronunciation demonstration in some Japan-related articles; very likely we can have Cantonese pronunciation demos implemented in the articles. ;) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:06, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * If you're interested, Wikipedia has some information on how to produce audio for Wikipedia articles. The free/open source sound editor Audacity works very well for both recording and saving files in Ogg format. If you want something simpler (perhaps), I know CDex can also convert wav files to Ogg. Hope that helps! — HorsePunchKid → 龜 20:40, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

 * replied (to Jerry Crimson Mann, to HorsePunchKid)

lots of edits, not an admin
Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:47, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

HKD Cantonese terms
Can you make some follow-up refine for me please? :) - Jerry Crimson Mann 19:15, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Referendum
I'd got too much ding-dong with Hong Kong Man. In fact I'd like to have nice talk with him at the very beginningm but he slammed me in an unfriendly manner after my first reply. This kiddo wants a referendum: what do you think? Well, it's ok by me; it's high time to cut the crap off, after all. But I don't think I would vote, and I would remain neutral in the whole scheme of thing. --Jerry Crimson Mann 20:58, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, didn't have the foggiest idea at the moment. Let's see how things go on, and, God forbid, off the track... :-/ -- Jerry Crimson Mann 10:47, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Milk tea
I suggest you remove the redirect link right now. Milk tea is a gerneral term, and every place would have its own kind of the drink, e.g. Taiwanese "pearl" milk tea. Moreover, some users like Hueiwei may not appreciate the deed. Before the next big dispute, it'd be better to revert the redirect page. --Jerry Crimson Mann 21:10, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

WE MADE IT!
How woud you like it? :) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 18:30, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, can you point out some errors...(acutally that's redrawn from a maop from EPD) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 04:23, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I did receive your email, but find no attachment in it... -- Jerry Crimson Mann 11:33, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * So do you want me to reply you as well?
 * PS Your email address is registered at a Canadian domain. So you're now in North America or what? :-O -- Jerry Crimson Mann 11:41, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Mainland China etc.
Personally I think we should lay low for a while. People are frankly very tired of this. But if you ask me what I think things should be, I think any article that deals with Mainland China only should be named that way. -- ran (talk) 15:31, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Old Hong Kong picture
Well, I guess waiting for Páll to come back is the only way now. Anyway, I've left a message on his Talk Page. Riddle | Talk 13:03, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Template of History of Hong Kong
That template would be useful to link up all articles related to the history of Hong Kong, e.g. Japanese Occupation of Hong Kong, Battle of Hong Kong, Transfer of the sovereignty of Hong Kong, Colonial Hong Kong, etc.. I hope you can do it for me it you've got time. I've got a sore throat now, not feeling well at all -- needa get some shut-eyes right away. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:03, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Licensing of Images on the Commons
Hi - you have uploaded some of your images to the commons, and tagged them with, indicating that the image may be used by wikipedia only. Note that this is a non-free license, and thus the images will be deleted from the commons. Please re-license your images under a free license - the current preference on the commons is dual-licensing with both, GFDL and CC-by-sa-2.0 - have a look at commons:Commons:Copyright tags for more options. Thanks -- G. Gearloose (?!) 22:40, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. "Permission for use in Wikipedia" is not accepted on the Commons (or the german wikipedia). On the english Wikipedia, Template:Permission seems to indicate that it was accepted in the past, but is not any more - it states: If this image was uploaded after 19 May 2005, it will soon be deleted without further warning. That is, you have to relicense your images if you want wikipedia to be able to use them - or put them up for speedy deletion. Keep in mind that Wikimedia is all about free content. -- G. Gearloose (?!) aka commons:User:Duesentrieb 23:19, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The point ist that images for use by wikipedia only are not acceptable. The only tag I can recommend is . If you want to contribute images to the wikipedia or the commons, you will have to allow others to use the images too. That's why Wikipedia is called the free encyclopedia - because it contains free content only. -- G. Gearloose (?!) 12:58, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * is accepted, here and con the commons, as a free license - however, using would probably be preferred - it's the same thing with all the legalese attached. Requireing attribution only is even "more free" than required...
 * Note that if you only require attribution, derivative work does not have to be free - that is, someone could use your work as part of a book or such, and does not have to make the result freely available. If you want to avoid that, you should use a license that requires "share-alike", like or . Actually, on the commons it is recommended to use both of those, best as  . -- G. Gearloose (?!) 01:01, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, images can not be undeleted. What are the problems you have with re-uploading them? -- 84.185.231.187 12:34, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Thanks
Thank you for pointing me to the HK noticeboard. I'm new at this. If you have any other resources, please let me know!--GrandCru 04:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

p.s. Is there a general "Asia" noticeboard? I have great respect for the area and have visited numerous countries. I have learned a lot and wish to contribute.--GrandCru 04:29, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

p.p.s. How do you put a vote on something nominated to be deleted? I tried to vote to delete "Round Faced Asian" and it didn't show up.--GrandCru 17:56, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Re: Issues around mainland China and Republic of China
Thanks for the update. I still haven't been around much but just stopped by for a visit; I hope to get more time to be more active soon. :) Anyway, I do find it unfortunate that none of the issues that MarkSweep brought up were addressed.  For now, I would still recommend treading lightly with regard to the issue.  --Umofomia 23:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * reference
 * replied

Blank user pages
If the users choose to keep their user pages blank, please respect them and please don't create such pages with a dot. Thanks. — Instantnood 17:47, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * 唔屌到你唔好以為自己好撚型，屌那星! 含家呤 SchmuckyTheCat 18:12, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Literal translation of the comment above by SchmuckyTheCat: "Don't think you're damn smart if I don't fuck you. Fuck those Singhs. Go to hell your entire family." Welcome to comment on my translation if you speak Cantonese. See also the article on the word diu (屌). :-P — Instantnood 18:28, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * Strange, I wonder why would he decide to kick himself? He's re-opening the arbitration case on you, and now he decides to make personal attacks that would probably go aganist him. - Mailer Diablo 08:16, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I would keep an eye on the arbitration. Good luck, anyway. :) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 18:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Leave comment on Arbit page. BTW, who would anyone wrote an article on "diu". SYSS Mouse 21:19, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied (to Mailer Diablo, to Jerry)

Request to reopen the ArbCom case
I've requested this to be re-opened since you've taken it's closure as permission to continue the behavior that initiated it. SchmuckyTheCat 19:02, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Google map
I see you're trying to add some Google map links to some Macau-related pages. Seemingly, you find the map useful :) (So you know the website becuase I added one link on the page of Hong Kong? :-D) More's the pity the page only provides high-resolution map of few places like Hong Kong and Macau. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 18:56, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Meetup
It's just so nice to have meetup; I see loads of them among Wikipedians from other countries. BUT I don't think we could have one in Hong Kong, as I can't see how gung-ho our comrades are. :-D -- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:42, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * replied

Mainland China
Of course I'm familiar with the term: I've heard it my entire life, read much of the debate you point to, and recognize it for the propaganda it represents; so spare me the condescending lecture, please. I am not your ally and you're wasting your time trying to enlist me in your POV crusade. --Calton | Talk 11:24, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * reference

 * I'm sorry, but what part of ...you're wasting your time trying to enlist me... was unclear? I have no intention of entering into one of your tireless and tiresome debates. "Mainland China" is a POV term; "People's Republic of China", being the official, formal, legal, and widely recognized name, isn't.

 * Let me simplify: Go away. --Calton | Talk 11:50, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * It's also a Wikipedia tradition for tiresome POV pushers to try to bludgeon people into agreeing with them. And it's also my right to not participate in the process. In short, I don't want to "discuss" this with you.

 * If your reading glasses are broken, try this:  Go away . --Calton | Talk 12:27, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied
 * I am neither pushing a POV, nor trying to make you agree with anything. Bullshit. You were given a reason, and you chose to argue with it. But anything that gets you to go away (after having been asked three times) is fine by me. --Calton | Talk 13:07, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Looking up Cantonese romanization
Do you know of any online lookup tools that will produce Cantonese romanization in the different systems (Yale, Jyutping, et al) or IPA symbols for given Chinese characters? It'll be a lot easier than to have to learn to use (and tell apart) all the different systems. --Yuje 12:42, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd love to know as well. :) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 13:00, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

Category:Chicagoans
(use )

Thanks for the info and fix, I wish I would have known about that template to begin with, isnt the first time I added multiple cats. <> Who ? ¿ ? 16:18, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * ''It's sad that this template is now on TFD.
 * Cool... You've discovered that already. :-D ''
 * And I'm glad I did, would hate to lose it now, since its like the 3rd time I've done umbrella nominations without it. And I have to start using that little "reply" link you used, good idea. <> Who ? ¿ ?  17:42, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * replied

MTR disambiguation
Hi, The reason I removed MTR Corporation is that I thought given the disambiguation page, the reference to the company seemed redundant (which in case you have not noticed I've added into the first paragraph). Would you agree that the Corporation would be a much less popular hit than the metro system, in which there actually are information useful in daily life? Have a look at User_talk:Mailer_diablo. Thanks. -- Alassius (talk) 30 June 2005 06:37 (UTC)
 * There perhaps are people reading MTR every quarter hour looking up stations and maps. How many, do you suggest, would be interested in how MTR Corporation operates the metro or who owns the superstores around tube stations? I don't believe the corporation deserves special treatment. A disambiguation page should suffice. -- Alassius (talk) 30 June 2005 07:55 (UTC)
 * I believe in more is less. For example I also think the MTR article has too many pictures, many of which repetitive. Then again it is only an aesthetic opinion, and you would of course have that of your own. -- Alassius (talk) 30 June 2005 08:37 (UTC)

 * replied

Hong Kong FAC
Hello there, I have nominated Hong Kong to be a featured article. Check out its nomination page here. This is gonna be a tough ride (we already have one object vote!) and I really think Hong Kong is a fantastic article that deserves to be a featured article. Let's all work together to get it there. Páll 30 June 2005 08:22 (UTC)

 * It has not been. I had several friends go over it and extensively edit it. I tend to not list things there because I don't really like them, and I don't present articles thatI think are iffy, anyway. Páll 30 June 2005 08:36 (UTC)

 * replied

title: User talk:Instantnood/Archive 2


text:
Władysław Syrokomla

Ludwik Władysław Franciszek Kondratowicz (29 September 1823 – 15 September 1862), better known as Władysław Syrokomla, was a Polish romantic poet, writer and translator working in Vilnius and Vilna Governorate, then Russian Empire, whose writings were mainly dedicated to the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania. In his writings, Syrokomla called himself a Lithuanian but was disappointed by his inability to speak the Lithuanian language.

Biography
Syrokomla was born on 29 September 1823 in the village of Smolhava, in the Minsk Governorate of the Russian Empire (now Minsk Region, Belarus), to an impoverished noble family. His parents were Aleksander Kajetan Kondratowicz (d. 1858) and Wiktoria (née Złotkowska). His uncle was Hilary Kondratowicz (1790–1823), a Polish teacher of maths in Vilnius gymnasium, who published some articles in Wiadomości Brukowe. A year after his birth his parents moved to another village called Jaskavičy. In 1833 he entered the Dominican school in Nyasvizh. He had to give up his studies due to financial problems. In 1837, he began work in a Marchačoŭščyna folwark.

Between 1841 and 1844, he worked as a clerk in the Radziwiłł family land manager's office. On 16 April 1844 in Nyasvizh he married Paulina Mitraszewska, with whom he had four children; three of them would die in the same year (1852). Later, Syrokomla had a widely criticised an affair with a married actress Helena Kirkorowa.

In 1844, he published the first of his poems – Pocztylion – under the pen-name Władysław Syrokomla, coined after his family's coat of arms. The same year he also rented the small village of Załucze. In 1853, after the death of three of his children, he sold it or gave his manor to his parents, and settled in Vilnius itself. After a few months he rented the Bareikiškės village, near Vilnius.

He became one of the editors (1861–1862) of the Kurier Wileński, the largest and most prestigious Polish-language daily newspaper published in the Vilnius region. In 1858, he visited Kraków, and some time later he visited Warsaw. For taking part in an anti-tsarist demonstration in 1861 in Warsaw he was arrested by the Okhrana and then sentenced to home arrest in his manor in Bareikiškės. He died on 15 September 1862 and was buried in the Rasos Cemetery in Vilnius.

Throughout his life, Syrokomla would remain impoverished; Czesław Miłosz wrote that he was "forever struggling against his lack of education and his poverty". Despite that, Syrokomla had many influential and even wealthy friends; his manor was visited by count Eustachy Tyszkiewicz, Stanisław Moniuszko, Ignacy Chodźko, Mikołaj Malinowski, Antoni Pietkiewicz and others.

Works
Syrkomla was influenced by Adam Mickiewicz. In his prose he supported the liberation of peasants and secession of the lands of former Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth from Russian Empire, which had annexed portions of the Commonwealth, including what was the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, during its late 18th-century partitions.

Among the most notable of Syrokomla's works are translations of various Russian, French, Ukrainian, German and Latin poets, including works by Goethe, Heine, Lermontov, Shevchenko, Nekrasov, Béranger and others. His translations are considered a "great service" for the Polish language. Syrokomla also produced a number of works about the rustic nature, people and customs of Lithuania and Belarus. The vast majority of his works were written in the Polish language, however, he also wrote several poems in Belarusian. Syrokomla is considered by some as one of the early influential writers in modern Belarusian language, although many of his Belarusian poems are believed to be lost.

Nevertheless, based on the knowledge of how the small nobility lived in Lithuania in the first half of the 19th century, it is assumed that Syrokomla was bilingual from childhood and was equally fluent in Belarusian and Polish. This is evidenced by the statements of the poet himself, which speak about the knowledge of the Belarusian language and how to master it in everyday contacts with the Belarusian people. He mentioned this in «Teka Wileńska»: ''"Karamzin, as a Russian, probably didn't know the old Belarusian dialect as we did, which we learned in everyday relations with the people". ''

The poet was interested in the Belarusian language, introduced it into his works and mentioned it to the readers of the "Gazeta Warszawska". He wrote about the Belarusian language and its meaning in the past:

During his lifetime, his works were translated into several languages, including Lithuanian. The composer Tchaikovsky adapted one of his works expressing a sympathetic view of the then-unliberated peasants – The Coral Beads – into a song. He also wrote of the Tatar community in Lithuania and its mosques and of a Jewish bookseller in Vilnius.

Some of his works are classified as gawęda (a story-like Polish epic literary genre).
 * Translations of Polish-Latin poets of Sigismund's age like Maciej Kazimierz Sarbiewski (Przekłady poetów polsko-łacińskich epoki zygmuntowskiej m.in. Macieja Kazimierza Sarbiewskiego)
 * Chats and rhymes elusive (Gawędy i rymy ulotne) (1853)
 * Born Jan Dęboróg (Urodzony Jan Dęboróg)
 * Poetries of the last hour (Poezje ostatniej godziny)
 * Liberation of peasants (Wyzwolenie włościan)
 * Margiris. A poem from Lithuania's history (Margier. Poemat z dziejów Litwy) (1855)
 * Good Thursday (Wielki Czwartek) (1856)
 * Janko the Cemetery-man (Janko Cmentarnik) (1857)
 * Kasper Kaliński (1858)
 * A house in the forest (Chatka w lesie) (1855–1856)
 * Hrabia na Wątorach (1856)
 * The magnates and the orphan (Możnowładcy i sierota) (1859)
 * Politicians from the countryside (Wiejscy politycy) (1858)
 * Wojnarowski
 * A journey of a familiar man through his familiar land (Podróż swojaka po swojszczyźnie)
 * The history of literature in Poland (Dzieje literatury w Polsce)

Legacy
While majority of sources refer to him as a "Polish poet", his legacy is best understood in the context of the multicultural Polish-Lithuanian identity. His birthplace was located within the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and he referred to himself as a Lithuanian when expressing his identity.

In his book Wycieczki po Litwie w promieniach od Wilna ('Picnics from Vilnius throughout Lithuania') from 1857–1860, Syrokomla wrote the following: "Another village near the manor is called Lelionys. On Sunday, a slightly more upbeat life buzzed in it. The inn could hear the noise of revelers. Girls and children were running in the street, shouting in Lithuanian. Unfortunately, the Lithuanian language is incomprehensible to us, who write historical poems of Lithuania. The Lithuanian villager turns out to be more civilized than us. In addition to his native Lithuanian language, he understands Polish well and explains it well.""On the right, behind Airėnai, you can see the beautiful Geisiškės manor with a Gothic-style palace, which now belongs to the Giedraičiai dukes. This manor and the adjacent Europe or Eirope manor are former Jesuit properties. These two estates are separated by a beautiful lake with a small stream flowing out of it. Along it there is a dam covered with brambles and a mill. How I wanted to ask the villager something, but he did not understand me and answered with one word 'Nesuprantu' [I don't understand]. I, a Lithuanian in the land of Lithuanians, couldn't talk to a Lithuanian!"Syrokomla also identified himself with the land of modern Belarus and its people. During Syrokomla's burial ceremony, the Lithuanian poet Edvardas Jokūbas Daukša emphasized that while Syrokomla was influenced by Polish culture, he was a Lithuanian poet, closest to Lithuania after Adam Mickiewicz. Teofil Lenartowicz wrote a memorial poem on his death referring to him as a "lirnik Litewski" (Lithuanian lyricist). His works were often translated into Lithuanian and Belarusian languages.

In modern Belarus, he is being praised for depicting the life of 19th century Belarus and for his ethnographic research of Belarusians. In his publications, Syrokomla supported the Belarusian language and the Belarusian theatre plays by the playwright Vintsent Dunin-Martsinkyevich.

In Belarus, there are streets named after W. Syrokomla (vulica Uladzislava Syrakomli) in Minsk, Grodno and in smaller towns Novogrudok, Nyasvizh, Pinsk, Vawkavysk, Maladzyechna and Pruzhany. In Smolhava a school is named after Syrokomla.

In Warsaw's residential district Bródno (city district Warszawa-Targówek) there are two streets dedicated to the poet: Ludwik Kondratowicz St and Władysław Syrokomla St.

In Vilnius, a Polish-language school of the Polish minority in Lithuania is named after him.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Władysław Syrokomla


text: Category:406 BC deaths

title: Category:406 BC deaths


text:
Agnes Schierhuber

Agnes Schierhuber (born 31 May 1946) is an Austrian politician and Member of the European Parliament (MEP). She is a member of the Austrian People's Party, which is part of the European People's Party.

Schierhuber has been a member of the European Parliament since 1995 and currently sits as a full member of the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. She is also part of the Delegation for relations with Canada. As a substitute member she sits on the Employment and Social Affairs Committee. She is the vice-chairwoman of the EPP-ED Group working party on agricultural and budgetary issues.

Career

 * Completed agricultural school (1964)
 * Passed specialist examination (1975)
 * Member, ÖVP Local and District Executive (since 1975)
 * Member, Executive Committee, Lower Austria Farmers' Federation (since 1985)
 * Vice-chair, Ottenschlag Farmers' Chamber (1975-1995)
 * Ottenschlag Women Farmers' Representative (1974-1994)
 * Vice-chair, Ottenschlag Raiffeisenkassen supervisory board (since 1980)
 * Member, Regional Executive, Farmers' Social Insurance Institute (SVB) (1983-1998)
 * Member, Lower Austria Regional Chamber of Agriculture (1985-1986)
 * Member, Bundesrat (1986-1996)
 * Member of the European Parliament (since 1995)
 * Appointed Ökonomierat (2000)
 * Vice-chair, EPP-ED Group working party on agricultural and budgetary issues (since 2003)
 * Chair, Austrian Association for Medicinal and Herbal Horticulture (since 1993)
 * Chair, Waldviertel Specialist Growers' Association (since 2003)

Honours

 * 1995: Decoration for Services to the Republic of Austria in Silver
 * 1996: Silver Medal of the Chamber of Agriculture of Lower Austria
 * 1996: Leopold Figl Silver Medal
 * 2005: Grand Decoration of Honour in Gold for Services to the Republic of Austria
 * 2006: Gold Medal of the Chamber of Agriculture of Lower Austria
 * 2006: Gold Decoration of the Farmers Association from Lower Austria

title: Agnes Schierhuber


text: User talk:68.9.159.127

title: User talk:68.9.159.127


text:
Talk:Bretton Woods, New Hampshire

Untitled
Hey all, I'm the WikiProject Cities assessor of this article. If feedback is what you want and need, come to my talk page and give me a holler! --Starstriker7(Dime algoor see my works) 21:37, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm still not sure my Base Road laguage is right yet. In excruciating detail: Perhaps a better wordsmith can improve it, without resorting to the excruciating detail.
 * the upper Base Road is always plowed.
 * for a long time, Mt. Clinton Rd substituted for the lower Base Road during winter (which BTW provides good access to the Edmands Path up Mt. Eisenhower), though officially closed to the public.
 * Last winter (2004-5), the whole Base Road was plowed, and Mt. Clinton Rd. was reserved for snowmobiles.

Highland Ctr is nearly 3 miles away, and tho it's (barely) in the town of Carroll it is I reduced and reworded the reference to it accordingly.
 * not part of Bretton Woods, and
 * more closely allied to the Crawford Notch area.

title: Talk:Bretton Woods, New Hampshire


text:
Eötvös (crater)

Eötvös is the remains of a lunar impact crater on the far side of the Moon. It lies to the north-northwest of the walled plain Roche, and east-southeast of the equally ruined Bolyai.

Only the northwestern section of the crater's rim survives, the remainder now forming a battered, uneven circular rise. The rim is nearly non-existent along the southeast where it joins an uneven plain reaching the rim of Roche. Small craters lie along the rim to the northeast and one to the southwest. The interior floor is relatively level, but marked by a number of small craterlets as well as palimpsests, meaning circular rises in the surface that are now scarcely recognizable as craters.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on Lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Eötvös.

title: Eötvös (crater)


text:
Andy

Andy may refer to:

People

 * Andy (given name), including a list of real individuals and fictional characters
 * Horace Andy (born 1951), Jamaican roots reggae songwriter and singer born Horace Hinds
 * Katja Andy (1907–2013), German-American pianist and piano professor
 * Andy (singer) (born 1958), stage name of Iranian-Armenian singer Andranik Madadian

Music

 * Andy (1976 album), an album by Andy Williams
 * Andy (2001 album), an album by Andy Williams
 * Andy (Raleigh Ritchie album), a 2020 album by Raleigh Ritchie
 * "Andy" (song), a 1986 song by Les Rita Mitsouko

Other uses

 * Andy (film), a 1965 film
 * Andy (goose) (1987–1991), a sneaker-wearing goose born without webbed feet
 * Andy (typeface), a monotype font
 * Andy, West Virginia, US, a former unincorporated community

title: Andy


text:
Talk:Student exchange program

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 September 2020 and 9 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LZ97.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This reads like an advertisement for NSE, when it should be about general Student Exchange Programs. Suggest removal of NSE references.
This article is clearly a history of the NSE, a private organization that is a not-for-profit out of the hundreds out there. Suggest removal of direct references to NSE or move all references to NSE over there. CSIET for example is a student exchange organization standards body and NSE is just one company out of the many in there. 118.165.0.65 (talk) 13:08, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Student exchange program in the United States
It seems like more students from foreign countries are studying abroad in the U.S for this program and so I noticed that the article can be more specific on this part. The article also needs more perspectives as to the pluses and minuses of this type of exchange program, or some of the difficulties that exchange students might encounter during their stay and so forth. It could be helpful for students who are making a decision of whether to participate in the program and get them ready for the experience. Todu822 (talk) 05:15, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

hello Ahmadmaqsood4 (talk) 19:16, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

VFD
On 26 March 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Student exchange program for a record of the discussion. – ABCD 20:50, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think that the site studentexchangeinfo.com should be included in the links because it is a great resource for exchange students

Glimpse Foundation
I have added some links to Glimpse materials in several Wikipedia articles as Glimpse's mission is to disseminate cultural information acquired by youth living abroad. Our website is non-commercial and serves as a resource for people interested in life abroad - it is a source of additional information about the experiences of youth abroad and is therefore a valuable external link to this page. AJDC

Does anyone else do this??
I'd hate to seem ethnocentric, but I rarely ever read about students from the U.S. going to foreign countries. Do foreign countries not take Americans yet America takes foreigners? It seems that way. If foreign countries do, then it has to be a very, very low percentage of people. I suspect it's much lower than how many people America accepts. I'm surprised Japan doesn't do the same for Americans. I don't really read about it too often. Matter of fact, I probably haven't read, heard, or seen anything about it for five years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.77.125.20 (talk)10:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, American high school students do travel abroad to attend school. However, many more students come to the US than go from it to another country (especially to another non-English-speaking country).  American students are more likely to travel as part of their university program.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, besides what the previous poster said, you have to accept the fact that not all other countries will be as accepting of Americans as America is of others. They have different laws and cultures, even down to house designs and school systems. If you're pointing fingers at Japan namely, there are actually a good 50,000+ Americans there out of their population of 127 million (see Americans in Japan). ★ Dasani ★ 05:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't totally agree with the last comment, especially the part "They have different laws and cultures[...]" I don't want to say it is wrong, but I believe it doesn't apply in this case as far as there are lots of European students who go to a lot of different countries (AFS webpage), but less Americans. Why should countries as Japan accept more likely Europeans than Americans?i think the fact is American do less exchanges because the U.S. is less multi-linguistic than other countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.38.106.60 (talk) 05:24, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

STS Foundation Australia
I noticed that our organisation has not been listed among other main student exchange organisations. STS Foundation is a global organisation, operating worldwide since 1958 and in Australia since 1987. Our organisation is registered with the Departments of Education of Australia. Link to our website: www.sts-education.com.au. MS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.214.81.42 (talk) 03:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Adding a link
I've added this link which is the official list of designated sponsor organizations according to the state department. It's substantially more complete than the DMOZ links, and all students wanting to exchange into the US must work with one of the organizations on this lists. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:39, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Redirect
"Foreign Exchange Student" redirects to List of My Name is Earl episodes. It probably would be more helpful for people looking for information on that subject to be redirected to here, specially as that other article doesn't seem to have any relation tho this. Can anyone change that? I don't know how to do it myself. PabloClark (talk) 02:29, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems to have been fixed by creating a disambiguation page Covergaard (talk) 16:16, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

A site for Brazilians
This Brazilian site: [Câmbio] talks about student exchange programs and is in Portuguese.Agre22 (talk) 14:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC)agre22

Why was the tag removed
I believe that this article is far from done. JohanGraham (talk) 05:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * First the testimonies dont belong on the page. Text with references to surveys should be included instead.
 * Second the article is still very US-centered. Where are the worries about cultural pollution we in Europe have?
 * Third, where are the references to all the text?

 * I agree. This article reads somewhat like a brochure, especially considering the benefits and testemonial sections. They don't belong on the page. The benefits reads like absolute statements, and very subjectively. I mean, come on, personal development thru exchange programs -> increase self-confidence? Can someone please help giving this article a broader perspective, and perhaps elaborate on the possible negative effects of these stays? I know there are some. I was an exchange student myself. Had a good time though, but I know there were other exchange students, who weren't as fortunate as I, mostly in regards to host family situations. Another slightly negative perspective comes from an international study (by dutch researchers) I was part of some years ago, that concluded that a significant, but not huge, amount of exchange students had trouble getting acclimated to their native country when returning home. Thorsager (talk) 03:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It would be nice if you can find a reference to this Dutch reserch paper JohanGraham (talk) 10:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm trying. It was a couple of years ago, so don't remember much else about it... I'll get back when/if I find it or something similar--Thorsager (talk) 17:54, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

OMG Exchange program
I noticed that an academic exchange I was part of has not been listed among other main student exchange programs. Ontario-Maharashtra-Goa (OMG) program started in 2008 and sets up 1/2 semester exchanges between studnets in univeristies in Ontario, Canada and those in the Indian states of Maharashtra and Goa.

The first group of exchange students under this program attended the Fall 2008 session of university in Ontario from Mumbai University's undergraduate college - Jai Hind and students selected for the exchange included Aamer Trambu, Nozer Golwalla and Jignesh Shah. As of 2010 there are about 20-30 students traveling from Maharashtra and Goa to study courses taught in Ontario universities.

Can we include this mention? The webpage http://www.omgprogram.org/About.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spartymantz (talk • contribs) 04:43, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

EU youth exchanges-International youth meetings
I would mention also that very often the term "youth exchange" in Europe is used also for international youth meetings. This is true for the Youth in Action programme of the EU" and for the "European Youth Foundation". They are not student's exchange, but meeting where groups of young people (age 15-30) form different countries live together, engage in activites planned and implemented by them, and learn about each other's culture while discussing of different tpics of social interest. This is quite relevant to mention as in Europe the amount of such project is really high (the budget for this programme, wich also includes other types of project, for 6 years is of almost 1 billion Euros). To understand what a meeeting like this is i reccomend you to watch this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG80J6sK91Y

To learn about such programmes i would go to: http://ec.europa.eu/youth/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/youth/youth-in-action-programme/doc/how_to_participate/programme_guide_11/programme-guide_en.pdf http://www.eyf.coe.int/fej/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.40.109.231 (talk) 23:48, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Intercambio
These two links came from the Intercambio page:
 * Intercambio Safety
 * Intercambio HistoryFelix Folio Secundus (talk) 21:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Benefiting who?
I cannot find any source financed independently which claim that student exchange benefits either the host or the guest.

In fact now where the technology allows people to remain at home while studying abroad research support that students should remain in their home country. See: Bliv hjemme - tag på kursus (Danmarks medie og Journalisthoejskole). Secondary student exchange could set the student back because credits are not recognized back home. The Danish department of education will not give credits for high school classes taken in United Kingdom or United States due to the superior education standard in Denmark

I find no reason why the section about who is benefitting from student exchange should stay in this article when there is not sources for it. It looks like original research and Wikipedia is not a place for that JohanGraham (talk) 08:35, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I think that section should be deleted, it is original research. Zarcadia (talk) 15:56, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Title change ("as Public Diplomacy")
I don't think the recent title change is appropriate, and the changes that have led to the essay-like tag that go with it are obscuring the fundamental topic: What is a student exchange program? I suggest a reversion. JJL (talk) 15:05, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. I was unable to find a discussion or comment explaining the change.  Logical Cowboy (talk) 15:12, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Glad to now see it back under a more appropriate name. JJL (talk) 03:58, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Statistics
"The total number of American students sent on exchange for either a school year or semester: 1,980. This is the lowest number of American high-school exchange students in the last seven years." -- http://www.uponreturn.org/uncategorized/exchange-students-the-statistics/

Does anyone have statistics over the past century? 70.59.16.167 (talk) 05:56, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Changes 12/16/2014
For my school project I had to change or create an article on wikipedia. I thought that write about the exchange students was a good idea because this year I'm living abroad. I just changed the Drawbacks (mainly because I lived some of those or my friends did) and the W-curve adjustment Model taking information on internet or from people who lived. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddalena Calabretta (talk • contribs) 20:25, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your contributions!
 * Unfortunately, I removed them. They were not written very well and included both spelling errors and improper tone (e.g., "you").  You also removed information from a cited source and replaced it with information from your personal experiences which is not how we write an encyclopedia.  Feel free to write drafts of your contributions here or elsewhere if you'd like feedback! ElKevbo (talk) 20:30, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Dictionary Reference?
This thing sounds more like a dictionary word definition than something supposed to be in an encyclopedia. If not, plz tell me and give me reasons why. Thank you.RealKnockout (talk) 01:03, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Student exchange program


text:
Nasty, Hertfordshire

Nasty is a hamlet in the East Hertfordshire district of Hertfordshire, England. It is in Great Munden civil parish, around 6 miles (10 km) north of Ware and around 7.5 miles (12 km) east of Stevenage. At the 2011 census the population was included in the civil parish of Albury.

Its name comes from the Anglo-Saxon æt þǽm éastan hæge, meaning "at the eastern hedged enclosure" or similar.

title: Nasty, Hertfordshire


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User talk:Drs.j.a.antonides~enwiki

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title: User talk:Drs.j.a.antonides~enwiki