text:
Talk:Primate (bishop)

Lyon
Is the Archbishop of Lyon's status as Primate of France secure? I ask this because Lyon was not part of France, but of the Kingdom of Arles, until the later middle Ages. I'd have thought the Archbishop of Reims was the traditional Primate of France, or at least would have had a claim to the title... john k 20:58, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I've been trying to find out who the Primate of France is...I've created Archbishop of Paris and Archbishop of Reims, and I'll get to Lyon later, but in the process of doing this, I have seen all three referred to as Primate of France. (All three current ones, I mean, in addition to various times throughout history.) Adam Bishop 02:00, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * What a mess. Perhaps one is the Primate of All France, and another is the Primate of France...I believe the Archbishop of Lyon is actually Primate of Gaul...The Catholic Encyclopedia, by the way, gives Lyon, Reims, Bourges, Vienne, Narbonne, Bordeaux, and Rouen!  (but not Paris).  Lyon and Vienne are now merged, and Narbonne and Bourges are no longer metropolitan sees, but that still leaves Lyon, Reims, Bordeaux, Rouen, and Paris as potential primates!  Germany is weird, too.  I know that Mainz was the primate before 1801, but Catholic Encyclopedia also gives Trier and Magdeburg as possibilities.  And post-1801, none of those work - Magdeburg is no longer a diocese, and Trier and Mainz are not metropolitan sees anymore (not sure why not for Mainz - why would you make Freiburg a metropolitan see when you have the grand old see of Mainz in the same ecclesiastical province?).  For Spain, Cathen lists Toledo, Santiago de Compostella, and Braga (which is in Portugal).  Supposedly, at the first Vatican Council, the only folks recognized as primates were Salzburg (of Austria?), Antivari (of ?), Salerno (?), Bahia (of Brazil), Gnesen (of Poland), Tarragona (of Spain?  of Catalonia?), Gran (of Hungary), Mechlin (of Belgium), and Armagh (of All Ireland)... This, I think, is the problem with informal titles. john k 05:20, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * The limited recognition of primates that you cite was for precedence purposes. There were other primates at the First Vatican Council, but since they were cardinals they took their precedence as cardinals, who have higher precedence than primates.  The bishops of those other sees cited (such as Ledóchowski of Gnessen ) were not cardinals at the time of the council  and had to be placed somewhere, so they were recognized as primates and took their place after the patriarchs.  Thus, the list of recognized primates at the First Vatican Council is not necessarily the complete list of primates. Pmadrid 8 July 2005 14:28 (UTC)

Suggest that the primates mentioned before the new title "Honorary," be moved there. I suspect there will be a bunch of them eventually.Student7 03:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Fictional
I don't understand from the article that any of the titles of primate are "official." The article seems to differentiate between various levels of fiction. Some that were "historic" and therefore less fictional than the others? Why bother to differentiate?Student7 00:10, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Primate of Austria
I have deleted the "primate of Austria" in that list, as there has never been such a title. Since 1648 the archbishop of Salzburg - which is in Austria - bears the title "primas Germaniae" (primate of Germany). But by that time, Austria and Salzburg were part of the Holy Roman Empire of German nation. And the title remained although the borders have changed.

 * Explanation to this "confusing" stuff (see above): Primas Germaniae, that is of the Holy Roman Empire, was the Archbishop-Elector of Mainz (St. Boniface's see). Trier is the oldest diocese, but was not, afaik, primate: That's why legends make the diocese of Mainz even older. And since the Archbishop-Elector of Mainz sat in the Elector Council, there was need of another Prince-Archbishop to be primate in the Prince Council (where all other bishops were - but some Salzburg suffragans, but that's another story), and that was Magdeburg. I don't know why: maybe this was helpful for the Eastern colonisation. When Magdeburg fell to Protestantism, this title was transferred to Salzburg whose archbishop had for Centuries been legatus natus of the Pope. And when Mainz fell under the metropolitan authority of Mechelen due to the Concordat of 1801 (Freiburg was later), the primatial see of Salzburg remained alone. (The Archbishop of Regensburg, the former archbishop of Mainz, claimed to be named primate of Germany by Pope Pius VII. without a written document. but after his death, Regensburg fell itself under the metropolitan authority of Munich.) --84.154.102.251 (talk) 22:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Archbishop of Salerno
The text now says that the Archbishop of Salerno claims the title of Primate of Servia. On the face of it this is impossible. Was Sicily meant? J S Ayer (talk) 03:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

German as missionary language in Poland
I removed doubuious claims about it. In 10th century language of church and aministration of Piast state was Latin, not German. Moreover Poland wasn't baptized by German missionaries but via marriage of Polsih duke Mieszko I and christian princess Dubravka from Czech Přemyslid dynasty. Radomil talk 18:07, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

French primatial sees
As to the question to the confusing French primatial sees:
 * The Roman empire used to be divided into provinces, and France, as we know, was Celtical Gaul, Aquitania, Belgium and the Province. Without knowing exact dates, when primatial rights were awarded by the Pope, I figure that: Primate of All Aquitania was Bourges. Primate of Aquitania was Bordeaux. Primate of Celtical Gaul was Lyon. Primate of Belgium was Reims and Primate of the Province was most probably Arles, though Narbonne, the capital, claimed this title too.
 * A primatial see for all the Franconian Empire (Primate of the Gauls and Germany) was created in Sens, I think with authority over all these.
 * Somewhen, a primatial see for Novempopulania and Navarra was created in Auch, though these belong to Aquitania.
 * In the eleventh century, the primatial rights of Sens (concerning France, probably not concerning Germany) were by explicit Papal order transferred to Lyon, which indeed did not belong to the Kingdom of France at the time.
 * One century later, the archbishop of Vienne, archchancellor of the Kingdom of Arles, became Primate of the Seven Provinces: That was another, later Roman subdivision which divided France into Gaul and Seven Provinces. Probably, the authority of Lyon over Seven Provinces ended thereby. Since in the Seven Provinces, there were some primates, Vienne was now primate of primates. Today, the dioceses of Lyon and Vienne have joined each other.
 * Wikipedia says that the archbishop of Bourges was somewhen elevated to be even a patriarch. If this is true, a) the authority of Vienne ended at least over his own province, b) the patriarchal authority ended by forgetting, or by the loss even of the metropolitan authority in 2002.
 * At the end of the Middle Ages, a new primatial see, by today independent of Lyon, was instituted in Rouen: that of Normandy (by the way, including the Channel Islands).
 * The Archdiocese of Mechelen, founded in the 16th century, inherited somewhen (maybe with a state named Belgium being founded) the title of primate of Belgium.
 * The primatial see of Arles ended by dissolving, or, if the archbishop of Aix (and Arles) had any inheritance, then, when he lost the metropolitan authority himself in 2002. The primatial see of Bourges ended in 2002. Likewise ended the authority of Auch.
 * It must be mentioned that some dioceses styled themselves primatial, though being not even metropolitan (Dol, then Rennes, for Brittany, Nancy for Lorraine). And this may show a certain precedence, but is nowise the classical primatial title. --84.154.63.189 (talk) 15:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

In Ireland
I've seen the Archbishop of Tuam and the Archbishop of Cashel referred to historically as Primate of Connaught and Munster respectively - when did this usage cease? Opera hat (talk) 17:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Shouldn't it be pronounced prime-it?

Revert
Please revert to older more detailed central section, making corrections if needed. It appears to have been dumbed down. 14:49, 14 March 2012 193.49.18.53 (talk)
 * Um, no. They need to be source. Dumbing down is adding unsource material.  Removing the sourced list is improper and consider vandalism.  The remove has been reverse and additional primates that have source are listed. Spshu (talk) 20:24, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Primates & Exarchs
"The closest equivalent position in the Eastern Catholic Churches is an exarch.[1] In the order of precedence of the Catholic Church, primates and exarchs may rank immediately below major archbishops, and precede metropolitan archbishops.[1]" - The statement regarding equivalency is only, if at all, true, in the Eastern Orthodox Church (and a careful reading of the cited source material would make clear that its text refers to such). An exarch in the Catholic Church is merely the bishop of a territory which has not, as yet, been elevated to eparchial status.

As well, the statement regarding precedence has no basis. It also cites the 1913 encyclopedia but the title "major archbishop" did not exist until the 1990s, so one can be assured that there is no corroboration there as to the position of primates versus major archbishops. I have deleted the first sentence and edited the second to limit it to primates preceding metropolitan archbishops. Irish Melkite (talk) 09:23, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "Primates exist only in the West, and correspond not to the patriarchs but to the exarchs of the East." from source CE:Primate. Spshu (talk) 13:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Spshu, you are over a century out of date in your choice of source. What is much worse, you have falsified the source.  It was in 1911 that the Catholic Encyclopedia published Auguste Boudhinon's article, in which he wrote that "Primates ... correspond ... to the exarchs of the East".  When he wrote that, the only exarchs were in non-Catholic churches, not in Catholic churches.  Yet you (by mistake, for I assume your good faith) attribute to Boudhinon the false statement: "The closest equivalent position in the Eastern Catholic Churches is an exarch."  More recently than when Boudhinon wrote his article, exarchs have been appointed in Eastern Catholic Churches, but none of them is of the level of primate in the Latin Church.  Esoglou (talk) 17:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

GCatholic.org
Is GCatholic.org a reliable source for this Wikipedia article? Or should it be classified as more or less a blog run by Gabriel Chow of Toronto? I withhold judgement until I hear the views of others. Esoglou (talk) 17:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Spshu apparently considers that GCatholic.org is not a reliable source, having now deleted from the article all that was attributed to that source (in spite of having reinstated it all earlier, when I myself had too hastily deleted the same material). I would like to hear other views too, before forming a decided personal opinion.  Esoglou (talk) 10:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I don't consider GCatholic.org to be unreliable, but I don't see a reason to argue over it. Spshu (talk) 21:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I am undecided and have therefore repented of removing the GCatholic.org references. Spshu holds that GCatholic.org is not unreliable - or at least does not consider it to be unreliable - and yet has removed the references.  A curious situation.  Since I must have recourse to the reliable sources noticeboard to settle the dispute between Spshu and me on whether the Code of Canon Law is a reliable source for Catholic canon law, I'll also raise the GCatholic.org question there.  Esoglou (talk) 09:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Just for the record: On the reliable sources noticeboard, the only judgement expressed was "There are undoubtedly far better sources for this kind of information than a personal blog. Use them." Esoglou (talk) 13:10, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * From personal experience outside this environment, I've found GCatholic occasionally useful as a start point in researching something but, as or more often, I've had to rebut or correct erroneous information presented by folks who, on being queried, cited GCatholic as their info source. I'd not consider it a reliable source. Irish Melkite (talk) 05:18, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Sources for Catholic canon law
Would Spshu kindly indicate the grounds on which s/he attached "citation needed" tags to statements about Catholic canon law after first deleting the quotations from the Code of Canon Law that explicitly makes those statements. Would Spshu agree that we raise on the Reliable sources noticeboard the question whether the exact explicit statements of the law in the Code are a reliable source for what is the law? Notice that, for good measure though unnecessarily, I have in each instance added a citation of a commentary on the Code of Canon Law that (of course) says the exact same thing - what more can Spshu require? Esoglou (talk) 10:08, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not understand the logic of Spshu's removal of the references in the article to what the Code of Canon Law says, while accepting references in the article to verbatim quotations of what the Code of Canon Law says given in another book. I have therefore raised the question on the reliable sources noticeboard, here.  Esoglou (talk) 09:10, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Archbishop of Westminster as primate

 * I'm looking at this CNA article which specifically refers to Vincent Nichols as "the new Primate of England and Wales, Archbishop Vicent Nichols of Westminster". I would prefer an official news agency's interpretation over our reading canon law. Mangoe (talk) 15:22, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If you think this is a reliable source, cite it in the article. It will be better than the sources that do not say he is a primate.  Esoglou (talk) 16:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

"Primate" is not just Roman Catholic
The title "Primate" is not by used the Roman Catholic Church exclusively. For example, there are Armenian Orthodox Primates in New York, California, and many countries in the Middle East. This page should either specify somewhere that it is Roman Catholic Centered or it should include at least a mention of Primates outside the Roman Catholic fold. Jdzakarian (talk) 21:47, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The article already has a section on the Anglican Communion. You can add another on the Armenian Apostolic Church.  Esoglou (talk) 07:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Cebu
Please don't keep inserting talk about Cebu in this relation. The cited article by J.K. Pangan calls the church in Cebu "the Primatial Church of Cebu". Even Pangan does not call it the see of the primate of the Philippines or indeed of any primate. The ordinary of Cebu is not a primate. (Neither is the ordinary of Manila, although he has, inaccurately, been called "de facto primate of the Philippines".) Esoglou (talk) 08:43, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

 * The following was placed on my personal talk page. It belongs here.
 * Good day, concerning the issue of Cebu being the primatial see. Though, I agree with you that the archbishop of Cebu was not conferred the title primate by the Holy See directly, but it's already implied by the following reasons:

 * 1) It is the cradle of Christianity and birthplace of the Philippine Church. This can be confirmed both in history and Papal concession via St. John Paul II.
 * 2) The fact that the Church of Cebu preceded other local churches in the country, obviously. And the Basilica del Santo Niño de Cebu is described by Pope Paul VI as "the symbol of the birth and growth of Christianity in the Philippines" and more importantly the same pope called in Latin the basilica as "mater et caput... omnium ecclesiarum Insularum Philippinarum" (mothe and head of all churches in the Philippines) And that basilica is canonically is under the Archbishop of Cebu. The implication suggests such. "Primate" or "Primatial" from the latin "prima" which means first. Cebu is the first local Church established, the first in many of Christian Tradition, the first Christian city and one of its church called the head and mother of others in the country. This is true in every aspect of the word "prima." Thank you very much! Jason Lykan (talk) 08:04, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
 * This article is about primate (bishop), not about the earliest episcopal see in a country, the country's cradle of Christianity. (By the way, the first diocese in Argentina was that of Córdoba.  The see of the primate of Argentina is Buenos Aires, which was the first archdiocese, though not the first diocese, in the country.  There is no primate of the Philippines.  Esoglou (talk) 14:52, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

 * First of all, thank you for the quick reply. You know the Holy See already called Cebu the "Mother and Head of all Churches in the Philippines" (mater et caput... omnium ecclesiarum Insularum Philippinarum)? Isn't that primatial enough? Does it need to spell out "Primate" or "primatial" to be valid? Please prove to me that the description given by Pope Paul VI is not considered "primatial." Jason Lykan (talk) 10:30, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Does it need? In this article, it does.  The title of primate has been granted to some bishop in only a very few countries.  The Philippines is not one of them.  That's what this article is about.  Esoglou (talk) 08:04, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks again for the reply. But can you agree with me that the Holy See itself says Cebu is "mother" and "head" of the Philippine Church? Of course, no question, it's clear from the apostolic letter I referenced. Then we have an agreement that Cebu gains precedence over other particular churches in the country, right? Look, I think we can reach a concession that, like the Archbishop of Westminster, the Archbishop of Cebu had not been granted the title Primate of the Philippines but a certain ceremonial primacy granted by the Holy See via Pope Paul VI might be worth mentioning in the Primate (bishop) article like example of the Archbishop of Westminster. Is it fair for you? Thank you and have a great day! Jason Lykan (talk) 11:28, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The Archbishop of Westminster is often referred to, but only loosely, as Catholic primate of England and Wales. That's why the article mentions this and debunks the idea.  I am unaware that the Archbishop of Cebu is often referred to as primate of any place.  (I also do not know that the Holy See has called the Archdiocese of Cebu mater et caput omnium ecclesiarum Insularum Philippinarum, a eulogy used instead of a particular building.  And I don't believe that the other bishops and archbishops of the Philippines agree that the archbishop of Cebu has a certain ceremonial primacy over them.)  Esoglou (talk) 07:22, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * First of all, we already established that the Archbishop of Cebu had not directly referred to as primate, and while I can grant you that the Archbishop of Cebu haven't been given the title primate and hence I grant also not calling him primate. Though, it can't be denied over his precedence to others which goes in my second point: concerning the title "mater et caput omnium ecclesiarum Insularum Philippinarum" is given to the Archdiocese's basilica doesn't negate the fact of its that it is mother and head of all those others in the Philippines. I have not yet mentioned the article given by J.K. Pangan. The concept of a structure connecting to one's authority is not alien to Catholic Church History. For example, a structure like cathedral is the throne of the bishop. Another example is St. Augustine of Canterbury calling the church "mother" and "primatial" church to his cathedral thereby making it the premiere see of all England and Wales. You can't refute what has been given by the Holy See and you keep conveniently wave it off and keep saying "you don't believe" it. And nice try downplaying the title to a "eulogy." That's not how it works. I tried to be reasonable with you but you seem to be incessant in denying the facts and you can't refute that with a shrug as if you refuted the argument and rendered the evidence useless. What I notice about the previous post about this page is that you didn't give any resistance when the Archbishop of Manila mentioned as a primate WITHOUT any references or proof. And now it seemed that I given you proof of the claim for the Archbishop of Cebu, you keep denying it.

 * I challenge you again to refute the apostolic letter UT CLARIFICETUR. Give me evidence that undo what Pope Paul VI described and you win. Don't give me reasons like "they don't agree with it," "it doesn't seem like it," "I don't think it is." If you can't, then I will continue writing about the Archbishop of Cebu (I won't refer to him as primate though, so your welcome).Jason Lykan (talk) 07:28, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

 * This is becoming a clear case of WP:SYNTH. You are leaping from something said about a church building, to applying it to the archdiocese, to applying it to the archbishop. You can't do that. We report what is said in the sources, and we don't add to them. Elizium23 (talk) 18:50, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the reply, Elizium23. First of all, I’m sorry if you’re drawn to a conclusion of reading into the source (I assure you that’s not my intention), I would like to put everything in context in order to be understood:

 * I am not only basing the seniority of the Church of Cebu from solely what is said. Putting everything in framework, it's based on the reasons:

 * (a) the fact that the Church of Cebu preceded other particular churches in the country.

 * (b) Cebu is the cradle of Christianity of the country,

 * (c) birthplace of the Philippine Church,

 * (d) the first Christian city,

 * (e) Cebu is the first capital of the Spanish East Indies (that includes the Philippines among other nations nearby like Guam, Marianas Island, etc.)

 * (f) the two towers: Cebu Metropolitan Cathedral and Basilica del Santo Niño are the very first church structures erected in the country,

 * (g) Cebu is called the “seat of Christianity in the Far East” and “Mother Church” of the Philippine Islands.

 * (h) Cebu is called the “spiritual capital” of the country,

 * (i) And finally, with the enumerated facts, the Holy See, recognizing its precedence, it declared the Archdiocese’s basilica as “mother” and “head” of all churches in the country. Now putting this in context, this event was in 1965 celebrating the four centuries of evangelization in the country celebrated in Cebu, recognizing 400 years of Catholic Christianity and evangelization preached in Cebuand it’s temple and called it “the symbol of the birth and growth of Christianity in the Philippines.”

 * Please, please don’t take my word for it, take time to read the references they’re all available online or word search it, and I’m not reading into the titles.  Now considering the evidences structured in this context, does these immediately translate to the precedence to the Archdiocese of Cebu? Well, obviously. Denying it takes mental gymnastics to come to a conclusion that it isn’t. What happened in the discussion is that the facts were just waved-off conveniently, especially the title of the basilica that’s why I focused my challenge there. The Archbishop of Cebu, while not the primate expressed by the Holy See yet, it has a precedence in other Churches in the country (and I grant it's just a honorific title as state previously than actual), just as probably like the Archbishop of Baltimore as made example in the page. Thank you very much! Jason Lykan (talk) 13:15, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

 * You are allowed to make simple calculations. Therefore if a source says a bishop was installed in 1995 and another source says he held office for 5 years, then you can say he left office in 2000. That's the extent of what is permitted, simple math. Even if it's terribly obvious to you, and you think no "mental gymnastics" are needed, we still need sources which say what you want to say. In fact it was frequently placed on Cardinal Luis Tagle's article that he was "de facto" primate of the Philippines. There was of course no source provided for this either. Also, there is a protracted dispute on the article of Pedro Calungsod about whether he is from Cebu or Ilonggo. So you see, this seems to me a local matter that is borne out of intense pride in one's city/island/country. I am glad you are willing to go to bat for your home town of choice, but Wikipedia cannot support these disputes, and we have to abide by the verifiability and neutrality policies. Elizium23 (talk) 05:53, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Hi, Elizium23, thanks for the quick reply. I agree with you in all points. The Pedro Calungsod issue is a moot point unfortunately since it can't be verified if he is from Cebu or Ilonggo, which makes the tug of war understandable. I have to consult to you on this: if I write in the page "Cebu preceded other local Churches in the Philippines" (though I would mention the disclaimer of it being not yet primatial church, and its precedence are purely honorific than actual) and cited, let say, two sources: (1) a narrative church history beginning with the genesis of Cebu (which also cites the title "Seat of Christianity in the Far East" for Cebu) from a credible ecclesiastical website, (2) the Holy See saying it's the cradle of Christianity in the country. It's simple calculations really, the Far East is bigger than the Philippines and Cebu is the "seat" of the Far East; not to mention also "cradle of Christianity" of the country. Is that permissible? Jason Lykan (talk) 14:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Even if it were true that "Cebu preceded other local Churches in the Philippines", you cannot write it in this article, which is about bishops who have the title of primate. What would you think of writing in this article: "Philippi preceded other local Churches in Europe"?  (The earliest record of a baptism within Europe is that of Lydia and her household in the Acts of the Apostles 16:15.)  You might find some other article in which to put it, but it has nothing to do with the title of primate for a bishop.  Esoglou (talk) 14:04, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * From the presentation put forth, Jason Lykan, you may have a case, but as Elizium23--as I understood it--emphasized writing an entire paragraph for such argumentation tends to be tedious and--could possibly-- violate the charters of this page. Just state your facts, however simple calculations aren't prohibited. On your consultation--though, this was primarily for Elizium, I will "throw a penny" nonetheless--that Cebu place as "seat of christianity in the far east" may be a good case of precedence for the Catholic Church in-the country--I noticed you exclude the Far East for that precedence by the way. Does precedence of a ecclesiastical community translate to its bishop. I may tend to lean on the affirmative as the article suggest that "often based in a city other than the present capital, but which was the capital when the country was first Christianized."

 * To be fair Esoglou, the article suggests that the Archdiocese of Baltimore--and its bishop--has a precedence, so as a reader it's not so scandalous to include other side facts from other dioceses.Crygon245 (talk) 15:30, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Points taken Esoglou and Crygon245. Thanks to you two both. Again, I apologize for not getting to the point, it could have save us the arguing, and also I agree with your second point, crygon. It's not really a scandal about it.Jason Lykan (talk) 16:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Crygon245 rightly pointed out the possibility of misinterpreting the mention of the Archbishop of Baltimore, which was not about a calculation "suggesting" something: the cited source states explicitly: "the Holy See granted to the Archbishop of Baltimore the precedence in councils and meetings, held by the prelates of the United States". Esoglou (talk) 07:57, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

 * It's fine to make simple math calculations as Elizium23 and the by laws of WP states--it is implicit in its nature by the way. I stated Jason Lykan's reasonable presentation and instead of using using longer methodology--which is not in itself bad--he could have used the argument Cebu being the "seat of christianity in the Far East"--a sort of quasi-Jerusalem in the southeast, I presume for Catholics--than making long presentations of "firsts". Simple math: Far East > the Philippines islands. If Cebu is the center of Christianity--Catholic, by the way, since there were Nestorian Christians also before--in the Far East, how much more the Philippines? Same also with his other premise, if Cebu is the birthplace of the Philippine Catholic church, logically, it's the first ecclesiastical community. Simple. I checked--as far as my critical source thinking goes--the references of the claims. The former is from a great Vatican-sanctioned ecclesiastical gathering of bishops--International Eucharist Congress, it says--and the article seemed to be the official historical statement for the event in 2016 based on the place of dispute--Cebu. If the Holy See doesn't agree Cebu as the "Seat of Far-East Christianity,"I see no evidence yet--though, it strange if it's published without being sanctioned by the Vatican See. The other is the Holy See through the lips of the Catholic saint John Paul II conceding the place which was first Christianized which bring back to the statement of the article about Primates to wit: "... often based in a city other than the present capital, but which was the capital when the country was first Christianized." Coupling with the ever divisive mother-head argument of its temple, I say as a disinterested observer my leanings now may be permissible to include that fact in the page. Nonetheless, it should quickly be noted to include that Cebu--may it be precedent in other local churches--is not yet considered a primatial see but a senior Church, that's all! Nothing more, nothing less and I believe this article is a good vehicle to decimate that fascinating side fact. Crygon245 (talk) 17:13, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I understood you the first time you suggested, Crygon. While I agree on all your points, you need not to beat it to the ground. What you're doing is almost showboating, if I may add. Though, thank you for contributing. I hope we can come with an agreement finally. Jason Lykan (talk) 20:00, 10 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.93.75.105 (talk)

There is no Primate of Croatia!
Title of Primate of Croatia is not in existence today. Historically it was a title asociated with an Archibishop of Split. Usage of title of Primate of Dalmatia and Croatia was cancelled by Locum Beati Petri bull signed by Pope Leo XII in 1828. Since than, the title has been abonded and it can't be claimed by Archbishop of Zagreb. Therefore, Zagreb should be taken off the list. Walter9 (talk) 13:31, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Primate (bishop)


text:
Proper

Proper may refer to:

Mathematics

 * Proper map, in topology, a property of continuous function between topological spaces, if inverse images of compact subsets are compact
 * Proper morphism, in algebraic geometry, an analogue of a proper map for algebraic varieties
 * Proper transfer function, a transfer function in control theory in which the degree of the numerator does not exceed the degree of the denominator
 * Proper equilibrium, in game theory, a refinement of the Nash equilibrium
 * Proper subset
 * Proper space
 * Proper class
 * Proper complex random variable

Other uses

 * Proper (liturgy), the part of a Christian liturgy that is specific to the date within the Liturgical Year
 * Proper frame, such system of reference in which object is stationary (non moving), sometimes also called a co-moving frame
 * Proper (heraldry), in heraldry, means depicted in natural colors
 * Proper Records, a UK record label
 * Proper (album), an album by Into It. Over It. released in 2011
 * Proper (often capitalized PROPER), a corrected release in response to a previously released online video or movie that contains transcoding or other playback errors

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Proper


text:
Operation Nanook (1946)

Operation Nanook was an Arctic expedition undertaken by the United States Navy in 1946. It consisted of USS Norton Sound (AV-11), USS Atule (SS-403), USCGC Northwind (WAG-282), USS Alcona (AK-157), USS Beltrami (AK-162), and USS Whitewood (AN-63). The mission is mostly documented as cartographic in nature.

From 22 July to 5 August 1946, all activities in Operation Nanook centered on Thule; Norton Sound remained at anchor there, in North Star Bay, servicing her two PBM's. Meanwhile, Whitewood and Atule operated from North Star Bay as they conducted exercises and tests in the Smith Sound-Kane Basin area. On 5 August 1946, Norton Sound and Whitewood headed for Dundas Harbour, Nunavut and Devon Island, in order to attempt air and surface operations there. Unfortunately, the ships found the harbor iced over, with a belt of pack ice extending out three miles down the coast. The Northwind broke ice in support of Operation Nanook.

The mission
The mission was to erect a radio and weather station in Thule. It was built from wooden barracks on the Pittufik, a Greenlandish word for "the place where we tie the dogs", in a large glacier valley about two miles from the trade station North Star Bay, which the Polar explorer Knud Rasmussen built.

The station was to be operated as joint Danish/American operation, under the Danish colours and Danish supervision by a crew of twenty men, ten from each nation.

Regular weather observations were maintained as Synopsies, Pibal and Radiosonde.

The station was kept in operation until 1951 when Thule Air Base was built in the valley; the weather station was then moved to the Greenlandish settlement at North Star Bay, and renamed "Dundas", until the population was moved to Qaanaaq further north in 1953.

title: Operation Nanook (1946)


text:
User:Sam Spade/multilingual

 * Wikipedia.org

 * Pages needing translation into English

 * Translation into English

 * Translators available

 * Contributing to articles outside your native language

 * free translation.com

 * babelfish

 * dictionary.com

 * answers.com

title: User:Sam Spade/multilingual


text:
Netherlands at the 1984 Summer Olympics

The Netherlands competed at the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, United States. 136 competitors, 82 men and 54 women, took part in 74 events in 15 sports.

Archery
Both of the Dutch archers from the 1980 competition returned in 1984. Both shot much higher scores than they had four years earlier, but the field was more competitive with the return of many nations that had boycotted, and both dropped out of the top eight.

Women's Individual Competition:
 * Catherina Floris – 2422 points (→ 23rd place)

Men's Individual Competition:
 * Martinus Reniers – 2486 points (→ 13th place)

Athletics
Men's 5,000 metres
 * Stijn Jaspers
 * Heat — 13:58.51 (→ did not advance)

Men's 3,000m Steeplechase
 * Hans Koeleman

Men's Marathon
 * Cor Vriend
 * Final — 2:21:08 (→ 39th place)

 * Gerard Nijboer
 * Final — did not finish (→ no ranking)

 * Cor Lambregts
 * Final — did not finish (→ no ranking)

Men's Shot Put
 * Erik de Bruin
 * Qualifying Round — 19.28 m
 * Final — 19.65 m (→ 8th place)

Women's 100 metres
 * Els Vader
 * Heat 1 — 11.43s
 * Heat 2 — 11.56s (→ did not advance)

Women's 1,500 metres
 * Elly van Hulst
 * Heat — 4:10.69
 * Final — 4:11.58 (→ 12th place)

Women's Marathon
 * Carla Beurskens
 * Final — 2:37:51 (→ 22nd place)

Women's 400m Hurdles
 * Olga Commandeur
 * Heat — 56.67
 * Semifinal — 57.01 (→ did not advance)

Women's Discus Throw
 * Ria Stalman
 * Qualifying Heat — 58.28m
 * Final — 65.36m (→ [[Image:Gold medal.svg|16x16px]] Gold Medal)

Women's Long Jump
 * Tineke Hidding
 * Qualification — did not start (→ did not advance, no ranking)

Women's High Jump
 * Marjon Wijnsma
 * Qualification — did not start (→ did not advance)

Women's Heptathlon
 * Tineke Hidding
 * Final Result — 6147 points (→ 7th place)

 * Marjon Wijnsma
 * Final Result — 6015 points (→ 11th place)

Boxing
Men's Middleweight (– 75 kg) Men's Heavyweight (– 91 kg)
 * Pedro van Raamsdonk
 * First Round – Defeated Augustus Oga (Kenya), on points (4:1)
 * Second Round – Defeated Noe Cruciani (Italy), on points (5:0)
 * Quarterfinals – Lost to Arístides González (Puerto Rico), on points (1:4)
 * Arnold Vanderlyde → [[Image:Bronze medal.svg|16x16px]] Bronze Medal
 * First Round – Bye
 * Second Round – Defeated Egerton Forster (SLE), on points (4:1)
 * Quarterfinals – Defeated Georgios Stefanopoulos (GRE), on points (5:0)
 * Semifinals – Lost to Willie DeWit (CAN), on points (3:2)

Canoeing
Men's K-2 (500 metres)
 * Gert Jan Lebbink
 * Ron Stevens

Men's K-2 (1,000 metres)
 * Gert Jan Lebbink
 * Ron Stevens

Women's K-1 (500 metres)
 * Annemiek Derckx

Cycling
Sixteen cyclists, thirteen men and three women, represented the Netherlands in 1984.

 * Men's individual road race
 * Jean-Paul van Poppel — +22:20 (→ 44th place)
 * Hans Daams — did not finish (→ no ranking)
 * Twan Poels — did not finish (→ no ranking)
 * Nico Verhoeven — did not finish (→ no ranking)

 * Team time trial
 * Jos Alberts
 * Erik Breukink
 * Maarten Ducrot
 * Gert Jakobs

 * Individual pursuit
 * Jelle Nijdam

 * Team pursuit
 * Ralf Elshof
 * Rik Moorman
 * Jelle Nijdam
 * Marco van der Hulst

 * Points race
 * Derk van Egmond

 * Women's individual road race
 * Leontine van der Lienden — +10:49 (→ 28th place)
 * Hennie Top — +18:12 (→ 37th place)
 * Thea van Rijnsoever — +18:12 (→ 39th place)

Diving
Women's 3m Springboard
 * Daphne Jongejans — 437.40 points (→ 10th place)

Equestrianism
Mixed Dressage Individual
 * Annemarie Sanders
 * Tineke Bartels
 * Jo Rutten

Mixed Dressage Team
 * Annemarie Sanders
 * Tineke Bartels
 * Jo Rutten

Men's team competition

 * Preliminary round (group B)
 * Defeated Canada (4-1)
 * Defeated New Zealand (3-1)
 * Drew with Pakistan (3-3)
 * Lost to Great Britain (3-4)
 * Defeated Kenya (3-0)

 * Classification Matches
 * 5th/8th place: Defeated Spain (0-0) after penalty strokes (10-4)
 * 5th/6th place: Lost to India (2-5) → 6th place

 * Team roster
 * Peter van Asbeck
 * Ewout van Asbeck
 * Lex Bos (gk)
 * Roderik Bouwman
 * Cees Jan Diepeveen
 * Theo Doyer
 * Maarten van Grimbergen
 * Arno den Hartog
 * Tom van 't Hek
 * Pierre Hermans (gk)
 * René Klaassen
 * Hans Kruize
 * Hidde Kruize
 * Ties Kruize
 * Eric Pierik
 * Ron Steens

 * Head coach: Wim van Heumen

Women's Team Competition

 * Round robin
 * Defeated New Zealand (2-1)
 * Defeated United States (2-1)
 * Defeated West Germany (6-2)
 * Drew with Canada (2-2)
 * Defeated Australia (2-0) → [[Image:Gold medal.svg|16x16px]] Gold Medal

 * Team roster
 * Carina Benninga
 * Fieke Boekhorst
 * Marjolein Eijsvogel
 * Det de Beus (gk)
 * Irene Hendriks
 * Elsemiek Hillen
 * Sandra Le Poole
 * Anneloes Nieuwenhuizen
 * Martine Ohr
 * Alette Pos (gk)
 * Lisette Sevens
 * Marieke van Doorn
 * Aletta van Manen
 * Sophie von Weiler
 * Laurien Willemse
 * Margriet Zegers

 * Head coach: Gijs van Heumen

Judo
Men's Half-Middleweight
 * Rob Henneveld

Men's Middleweight
 * Ben Spijkers

Men's Heavyweight
 * Willy Wilhelm

Swimming
Men's 100m Freestyle
 * Hans Kroes
 * Heat — 51.19
 * B-Final — 51.64 (→ 13th place)

 * Edsard Schlingemann
 * Heat — 51.33
 * B-Final — 51.74 (→ 15th place)

Men's 200m Freestyle
 * Frank Drost
 * Heat — 1:51.32
 * Final — 1:51.62 (→ 6th place)

 * Hans Kroes
 * Heat — 1:52.37
 * B-Final — 1:52.36 (→ 11th place)

Men's 100m Backstroke
 * Hans Kroes
 * Heat — 57.48
 * Final — 58.07 (→ 8th place)

Men's 100m Butterfly
 * Cees Vervoorn
 * Heat — 55.46
 * B-Final — 55.75 (→ 14th place)

 * Gérard de Kort
 * Heat — 56.55 (→ did not advance, 24th place)

Men's 200m Butterfly
 * Frank Drost
 * Heat — 2:01.18
 * B-Final — 2:01.23 (→ 10th place)

 * Gérard de Kort
 * Heat — 2:00.83
 * B-Final — 2:01.30 (→ 13th place)

Men's 200m Individual Medley
 * Edsard Schlingemann
 * Heat — 2:08.27 (→ did not advance, 18th place)

Men's 4 × 100 m Freestyle Relay
 * Edsard Schlingemann, Peter Drost, Frank Drost, and Hans Kroes
 * Heat — 3:27.60 (→ did not advance, 11th place)

Men's 4 × 200 m Freestyle Relay
 * Hans Kroes, Peter Drost, Edsard Schlingemann, and Frank Drost
 * Heat — 7:29.14
 * Final — 7:26.72 (→ 7th place)

Women's 100m Freestyle
 * Annemarie Verstappen
 * Heat — 56.11
 * Final — 56.08 (→ [[Image:Bronze medal.svg|16x16px]] Bronze Medal)

 * Conny van Bentum
 * Heat — 56.94
 * Final — 56.43 (→ 4th place)

Women's 200m Freestyle
 * Annemarie Verstappen
 * Heat — 2:01.61
 * Final — 1:59.69 (→ [[Image:Bronze medal.svg|16x16px]] Bronze Medal)

 * Conny van Bentum
 * Heat — 2:01.52
 * Final — 2:00.59 (→ 5th place)

Women's 400m Freestyle
 * Jolande van der Meer
 * Heat — 4:16.65
 * Final — 4:16.05 (→ 6th place)

Women's 800m Freestyle
 * Jolande van der Meer
 * Heat — 8:46.58
 * Final — 8:42.86 (→ 6th place)

Women's 100m Backstroke
 * Jolanda de Rover
 * Heat — 1:02.94
 * Final — 1:02.91 (→ [[Image:Bronze medal.svg|16x16px]] Bronze Medal)

 * Brigitte van der Lans
 * Heat — 1:04.57
 * Swimm-Off — 1:04.82
 * B-Final — 1:04.75 (→ 12th place)

Women's 200m Backstroke
 * Jolanda de Rover
 * Heat — 2:13.50
 * Final — 2:12.38 (→ [[Image:Gold medal.svg|16x16px]] Gold Medal)

 * Brigitte van der Lans
 * Heat — 2:20.63 (→ did not advance, 17th place)

Women's 100m Breaststroke
 * Petra Hillenius
 * Heat — 1:14.09 (→ did not advance, 19th place)

 * Petra van Staveren
 * Heat — 1:11.18
 * Final — 1:09.88 OR (→ [[Image:Gold medal.svg|16x16px]] Gold Medal)

Women's 200m Breaststroke
 * Petra Hillenius
 * Heat — 2:41.57 (→ did not advance, 18th place)

 * Petra van Staveren
 * Heat — 2:37.20
 * Final — 2:36.32 in B final (→ 10th place)

Women's 100m Butterfly
 * Conny van Bentum
 * Heat — 1:02.01
 * Final — 1:01.94 (→ 7th place)

 * Annemarie Verstappen
 * Heat — 1:01.50
 * Final — 1:01.56 (→ 4th place)

Women's 200m Butterfly
 * Conny van Bentum
 * Heat — 2:13.74
 * Swim-Off — 2:13.60
 * Final — 2:17.39 (→ 8th place)

Women's 4 × 100 m Freestyle Relay
 * Annemarie Verstappen, Elles Voskes, Desi Reijers, and Wilma van Velsen
 * Heat — 3:47.65

 * Annemarie Verstappen, Elles Voskes, Desi Reijers, and Conny van Bentum
 * Final — 3:44.40 (→ [[Image:Silver medal.svg|16x16px]] Silver Medal)

Women's 4x100 Medley Relay
 * Jolanda de Rover, Petra van Staveren, Annemarie Verstappen, and Desi Reijers
 * Heat — DSQ (→ did not advance)

Synchronized swimming
Women's Solo
 * Marijke Engelen
 * Catrien Eijken
 * Marjolein Philipsen

Women's Duet
 * Marijke Engelen and Catrien Eijken

Men's team competition

 * Preliminary round (group A)
 * Defeated Canada (10-9)
 * Lost to Yugoslavia (5-9)
 * Defeated China (10-8)

 * Final Round (Group D)
 * Lost to United States (7-8)
 * Lost to Spain (4-8)
 * Lost to Yugoslavia (5-9)
 * Lost to Australia (7-8)
 * Lost to West Germany (2-15) → 6th place

 * Team roster
 * Johan Aantjes
 * Stan van Belkum
 * Wouly de Bie
 * Ton Buunk
 * Ed van Es
 * Anton Heiden
 * Nico Landeweerd
 * Aad van Mil
 * Ruud Misdorp
 * Dick Nieuwenhuizen
 * Eric Noordegraaf
 * Roald van Noort
 * Remco Pielstroom

title: Netherlands at the 1984 Summer Olympics


text:
Fan mail

Fan mail is mail sent to a public figure, especially a celebrity, by their admirers or "fans". In return for a fan's support and admiration, public figures may send an autographed poster, photo, reply letter, or note thanking their fans for their encouragement, gifts, and support. Fan mail sent to public figures can be through postal mail, email, social media, and other platforms that allow fans and users to communicate with their favorite public figures.

Overview

Fan mail may be in the form of letters, cards, artwork, gifts, comments on social media accounts, and so on. People often send fan mail to various public entertainers, figures such as politicians, athletes, actors, artists, writers, singers, bands, coaches of sports teams, bloggers, and social media stars seem to be the main target. Responses can take a great deal of time to come or never come at all. Since a major celebrity or public figure may receive thousands of pieces of fan mail every day, it is usually impossible for him/her to reply to or read them all and as a result his/her management team, often has the duty of canvassing the incoming mail. However, celebrities such as Tim Allen or Taylor Swift sometimes respond to fan mail. Directly after the 2001 anthrax attacks, some studios and agencies have refused to further take fan mail for safety and security reasons, and have referred fans to alternate forms of contact.

Entertainment portrayal of fan mail
This gimmick has also been used with fictional characters; special episodes of Beavis and Butt-head featured episodes with mail sent to the two characters and the Homestar Runner website regularly features emails sent to and answered by the cartoon's main antagonist, Strong Bad. Public reading and answering of fan mail was a common recurring element of the cult television program Mystery Science Theater 3000 and the TechTV/G4 game review program X-Play often featured hosts Adam Sessler and Morgan Webb answering fan mail at the end of episodes, often in a scornful and satirical manner due to respondents deeply disagreeing with the show's video game reviews. TLC's third studio album was named FanMail, and was a tribute to fans, with the names of many fans that had sent them fan mail over the years included in the album's insert.

In Puerto Rico, popular television children's show host, the Spaniard Pacheco was known for personally reading fan-mails, which usually in his case included drawings by children dedicated to him, on his weekdays television show Cine Recreo.

Responses
Many fan mail responses started off as autographed photos but have gradually evolved to communication through social media. Many celebrities and public figures, such as Taylor Swift and J. K. Rowling, have been known to respond to fans, and sometimes to haters, through Tumblr and Twitter. There have been many occasions in which J. K. Rowling has interacted with fans through her Twitter account. Taylor Swift has also been known to go out of her way to respond to her fans and admirers and even send fans gift packages, a form of fan mail, to selected fans who she had learned about through their social media accounts. While some public figures have responded to fans via social media, it is often known that responses via postal mail by public figures are scarce or nonexistent and often not personal responses but responses by a public figure's management team.

title: Fan mail


text: Category:Archaeological sites in Norway

title: Category:Archaeological sites in Norway


text:
R. A. Stranahan Arboretum

The R. A. Stranahan Arboretum 47 acres (190,000 m2) is located at 4131 Tantara Drive, Toledo, Ohio, about a 10-minute drive from the main campus of the University of Toledo. It contains 1,500 specimens of cultivated, mature trees from China, Serbia, Japan, and Norway, as well as North American varieties ranging from Bristlecone Pine to Buckeye.

The Arboretum site includes cultivated ornamental trees, rolling lawns, natural woods, ponds, wetlands and a restored prairie, all located within the "Oak Openings" sand dune region. About one-quarter of the Arboretum is covered by forest. The older forest has not been cleared for over 150 years and has oaks as the dominant tree. Peaks of old sand dunes are visible beneath its undergrowth. The newer forest is 50 years old, with has red maple as the dominant tree.

The Arboretum was donated to the University of Toledo in 1964 by the W. W. Knight family, in memory of Robert Stranahan.

title: R. A. Stranahan Arboretum


text:
User talk:Damicatz/Archive 1

You've just never heard of it like many others. Plaeop is a wonderful and exciting and i hope many others join me in studying it. Excuse me i didnt realize the SS was running wikipedia. If you took the time to read norm chomsky literary masterpiece on the JFK assassination you'd realize the heavy links between Oswald's abuses as a child and his obsession with the gun. I have irrefutable evidence JFK's fatal shot would have been taken by a M1 Grande instead of the sleeker phallus shaped mannlicher-carcano bolt action rifle.

Vandalism??
The edits I am making are not vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.250.105 (talk) 04:09, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

-let me quote from the link you provided "any effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism" -you argue that they are provocative statements, I claim it is fact. This group has had criminal warrants issued for their arrest, they are even recogonized by the FBI as an eco-terrorist group.

-changing a WP page to reflect facts i.e. classification as an eco-terrorist group is in no way in violation of the neutrality rule. It seems that your bias against my edits are in violation of neutrality as it were.

Safe sex NPOV concern
Heyas, I saw you tagged Safe sex with the NPOV tag, but didn't see an explanation on Talk:Safe sex. If there is a part of the article you are concerned about being POV, I'd be happy to help address those concerns and bring the article into conformity with the NPOV policy. Tags like that need to have explanations in order to be helpful. Any insight you can provide would be apprecaited. Thanks! -SocratesJedi | Talk 06:40, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, hey thanks for your reply. I removed the tag, but I'll go and check that out.  I think that those comments were semi-outdated and have been talking with User:Sci guy about some other edits to the article too, but I'll do make sure about that too (that it really is the case that those concerns are old, if they are not, I'll re-add the NPOV tag).  Thanks for your concerns and your reply though!  -SocratesJedi | Talk 22:18, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

DB
Please be a bit more careful about speedy tagging - you tagged Homesick as nonsense when it was it was quite clearly a carefully written book review. -- RHaworth 04:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism protection
Hey, thanks for explaining and not just deleting without saying anything. I thought that only admins could do it, but then I saw a non-admin do it, so I guess I was misled. There really should be a vprotect on Featured Articles though.. I'm not sure why no one has put one up.

 * It did clear it up, thank you. And I'm sorry I screwed up your discussion page twice in a row by accident.. Dan 06:35, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Damicatz
You wouldn't happen to be damicatz from upnetwork, would you?PiccoloNamek 08:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey, just making sure. There's more than one PiccoloNamek, believe it or not, so I thought there just might be another dami. Anyway, thanks for reverting my userpage. That guy needs to get a life!PiccoloNamek 08:14, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your attention to the Arcata Eye page. I believe the anonymous editors are members or close associates of the Plazoid, and are thus prone to a certain point of view regarding the Eye. --Metatree 23:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Pro-Test
I have actually just asked for Peer Review for the article so as to get some other perspectives. So far, the only sourced criticism of Pro-Test is in the article, and being associated with the group myself I don't feel I'm in a good position to make those criticisms myself. Thanks for the tip, though. --ProTestOxford 20:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for policing User:Dcfleck. --Dcfleck 00:07, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

no one asked you
69.179.75.234 03:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

don't be so darn happy either 69.179.75.234 03:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't remove it that time!!!! 69.179.75.234 03:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

 * 1) you didn't understand that last remark

2.I just made it so you had to scroll down

3.You have never used an ip, with an ip you can not create articles, and even my user page is considered an article

when i said scroll down i meant this http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:69.179.75.234&diff=39442203&oldid=39442174

And i did not know that was a warning

 * You're probably having a good day if an anon tells you not to be so darn happy ; )
 * Adrian~enwiki (talk) 04:15, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Please don't vandalize my userpage. The IP address was me. I wasn't logged in. Thank you. --Analogdemon (talk) 01:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice touch putting it up for deletion. You, nor anyone else, can bully me around.  --Analogdemon (talk) 02:11, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I will not stop just because certain admins consider this in bad taste. They do not represent the "community" so therefore, they are in the minority.  Five admin's opinions do not represent consensus.

Thanks
Thanks for reverting vandalism on my user page! I greatly appreciate it. --Hansnesse 02:29, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism?
Really? Are you sure I could get blocked? That's not my interpretation of the WP blocking policy. May I respectfully suggest that you are mistaken.

Thanks!

I'm sorry, however I must respectfully disagree. I feel that I am contributing factual content.

Thanks again!

Image Tagging for Image:Altosystem.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Altosystem.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 11:36, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Unix Games

 * In regards to the UNIX Games Catagory : UNIX, when used correctly, refers to AT&T's orginal UNIX operating system and their direct revisions such as UNIX System V. To my knowledge, none of the games listed in that category run on System V or any of the orginal Unices'. At the very least, I believe the category should be renamed to indicate that it is for games that run on UNIX-like operating systems. I still, however, believe that it is redundant. The games listed appear on the category pages of the operating systems they run on individually and none of those games, to my knowledge, are compatible with all modern UNIX-like operating systems. - Damicatz 20:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes UNIX was developed by AT&T, but it now applies to a number of different flavors supported by different vendors. So I suppose I shall have to disagree with your statement "when used correctly" since I'm supporting several of those flavors of UNIX right now, and it doesn't feel incorrect to be calling them UNIX. Yes it's entirely possible that some of the listed games are inappropriately catalogued. Rogue, at least, seems quite appropriate for the UNIX games category, at least in my mind. But maybe you don't consider the Berkeley flavor to be UNIX? :-) Thanks. — RJH (talk) 20:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Berkely UNIX is a UNIX-derivitive but none of the orginal UNIX code remains. So it is a UNIX-like operating system or a UNIX-style operating system but it is not UNIX. - Damicatz 21:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm aware of the history, thanks. Looks like you will be busy cleaning up the Category:Unix of all the UNIX derivations. Good luck. — RJH (talk) 21:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Zilog Z80.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Zilog Z80.jpg, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 04:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Thomasvista.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Thomasvista.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 10:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Thomasvistainside.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Thomasvistainside.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 09:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:L Intel-C4004 (gray traces).jpg
Could you check the fair use rationale at Image:L Intel-C4004 (gray traces).jpg. Thanks! Addhoc 17:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:L Intel-C4004 (gray traces).jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:L Intel-C4004 (gray traces).jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the image description page and edit it to add , without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. – Quadell (talk) (random) 20:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

pupilometer
Hi! It's been a while since the article pupilometer was written. The original user that was the author no longer exists. I don't see any references to validate the nomenclature, although there is use of it as an Ophthalmic Instrument to measure the distance between of the PD, or pupillary distance from eye to eye when fitting eyeglasses to align the optic centers of a prescription. Would you concur to changing the content of the article? I don't know what your original contribution was, but found this link to your user_talk page in the history. StationNT5Bmedia 02:17, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Intel 8086.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Intel 8086.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the image description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 7 days after this notification, per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Carl (CBM · talk) 01:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Altodraw.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Altodraw.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. OsamaK 14:15, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Vistachevy.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Vistachevy.jpg. I noticed the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the image description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if not used in an article), per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Remember the dot (talk) 05:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Intel 80186.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Intel 80186.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the media description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Remember the dot (talk) 02:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Intel P3Socket.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Intel P3Socket.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the media description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Remember the dot (talk) 02:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Intel P3Slot.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Intel P3Slot.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the media description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. —Remember the dot (talk) 02:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Altodraw.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Altodraw.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 00:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Leilaandthesnakesfront.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Leilaandthesnakesfront.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 23:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

New policy proposal that may be of interest
I'm tapping this message out to you because you were involved at the AfDs of Eve Carson or Lauren Burk. Following both of these heated debates, a new proposal has been made for a guideline to aid these contentious debates, which can be found at WP:N/CA. There is a page for comments at Wikipedia talk:Notability (criminal acts)/Opinions should you wish to make a comment. Thanks for your time, and apologies if this was not of interest! Fritzpoll (talk) 15:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Motorola 68060.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Motorola 68060.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Motorola 68040.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Motorola 68040.jpg. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
 * That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 23:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit war
If I use the discussion nobody will see, I want know why the things that I put are "irevelant" and the others things in here don't. Renanx3 (talk) 17:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Your request for rollback
After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback: If you no longer want rollback, then contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some information on how to use rollback, you can view this page. I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, just leave me a message if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Happy editing! Tiptoety talk 03:39, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
 * Rollback can be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
 * Rollback may be removed at any time.

Thanks
Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my user page :D  Matt  (  Talk  )   06:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for correcting my error.
Thank you for taking the effort to correct my error, in which I reverted completely fine edits at Proginet. 69.74.132.154 requested that I preserve all the dits he made, which I reverted for no reason. I have not looked into that because you also took the opportunity to make further rolback, and I'm not sure if you've done so, so I'm just checking with you. Thank you! Optakeover (talk) 18:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi
Thats ok, that was my userpage prob. didn´t log in, so just one question how do you freeze or end an account? Thank you Cyrus111 (talk) 01:48, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Pghcollectibles
You reverted this edit on Pghcollectibles. Please remember that when an author blanks their own page, that is to be interpreted not as vandalism, but as request for the page to be deleted (per WP:CSD). WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 14:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Damicatz/Archive 1


text:
Macabre (band)

Macabre is an American extreme metal band from Chicago. Since their formation in 1985, the band has featured the same three members with no lineup changes. The group's style blends thrash metal, death metal, and grindcore (sometimes with nursery rhymes and folk melodies). Lyrically, Macabre have a strong focus on serial killers, mass murderers and humorous elements. The group is currently signed to Nuclear Blast.

Influences
Macabre's music was strongly influenced by US and UK hardcore, grindcore, and death metal acts, ranging from Venom, The Accüsed, Suicidal Tendencies, and Cryptic Slaughter to Possessed and Napalm Death. Macabre's dark sense of humor alienated casual metal listeners, however it helped to gain a small but strong cult status.

Some of the serial killers mentioned in their songs are:

 * Bob Berdella (The Kansas City Butcher)
 * Henry Lee Lucas (The Confession Killer)
 * David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)
 * Ted Bundy
 * Ted Kaczynski (The Unabomber)
 * Vlad the Impaler
 * Ed Gein (The Butcher of Plainfield)
 * Charles Manson
 * Jeffrey Dahmer (The Milwaukee Cannibal)
 * John Wayne Gacy (The Killer Clown)
 * Jack the Ripper
 * Edmund Kemper (The Co-ed Killer)
 * Peter Kürten (The Vampire of Düsseldorf)
 * Herman Mudgett (H.H. Holmes)
 * Richard Ramirez (The Night Stalker)
 * Gary Ridgway (The Green River Killer)
 * Zodiac
 * Joe Ball (The Alligator Man)

Members

 * Nefarious (Charles Lescewicz) – bass, vocals (1984–present)
 * Dennis the Menace (Dennis Ritchie) – drums (1984–present)
 * Corporate Death (Lance Lencioni) – guitar, vocals (1984–present)

Studio albums

 * Gloom (1989)
 * Sinister Slaughter (1993)
 * Dahmer (2000)
 * Murder Metal (2003)
 * Grim Scary Tales (2011)
 * Carnival of Killers (2020)

Demos, Video, LP, EP, Compilations

 * Shitlist (1987)
 * Grim Reality (1987)
 * Shitlist (1988, 7")
 * Nightstalker (1991, 7")
 * Behind the Wall of Sleep (1994, EP)
 * Unabomber (1999, EP)
 * Capitalist Casualties / Macabre(2001, split with Capitalist Casualties)
 * Morbid Campfire Songs (2002, as the Macabre Minstrels)
 * Drill Bit Lobotomy (2002, 7")
 * Macabre Electric & Acoustic Two CD Set (2004, 2-CD set including the CDs Murder Metal and Macabre Minstrels)
 * True Tales of Slaughter and Slaying (2006, DVD)
 * Grim Reality (2008) − re-issue featuring the remastered 1980s version and a Neil Kernon remix version
 * Human Monsters (2010, EP)
 * Slaughter Thy Poser(2012, EP)

title: Macabre (band)


text:
White Room

"White Room" is a song by British rock band Cream, composed by bassist Jack Bruce with lyrics by poet Pete Brown. They recorded it for the studio half of the 1968 double album Wheels of Fire. In September, a shorter US single edit (without the third verse) was released for AM radio stations, although album-oriented FM radio stations played the full album version. The subsequent UK single release in January 1969 used the full-length album version of the track.

Recording and composition
In 1967, at the initial session for Cream's third album (then still unnamed), recording for "White Room" reportedly began in London. In December, work continued at Atlantic Studios in New York City and was completed during three sessions in February, April and June 1968, also at Atlantic.

Jack Bruce sang and played bass on the song, Eric Clapton overdubbed guitar parts, Ginger Baker played drums and timpani, and Felix Pappalardi – the group's producer – contributed violas. Clapton played his guitar through a wah-wah pedal to achieve a "talking-effect". The song has an identical chord progression to Cream's previous recording "Tales of Brave Ulysses". Both Bruce and Baker claimed to have added the distinctive or quintuple metre opening to what had been a  or common time composition.

Credits

 * Jack Bruce - lead vocals, bass, songwriter
 * Eric Clapton - lead and rhythm guitars
 * Ginger Baker - drums, timpani
 * Felix Pappalardi - violas, producer
 * Pete Brown - songwriter

Recognition and other recordings
Rolling Stone ranked "White Room" at number 376 on its list of the "500 Greatest Songs of All Time". A live recording appears on the group's Live Cream Volume II album (1972). Clapton, along with Phil Collins, began his act at Live Aid in 1985 with the song. In 1990, Clapton performed the song at his Royal Albert Hall concert series and in 1999 with Sheryl Crow at Crow's Sheryl Crow and Friends: Live from Central Park concert. In 2005, the reunited Cream played the song at the Royal Albert Hall, which was released on their Royal Albert Hall London May 2-3-5-6, 2005 album.

In a song review for AllMusic, Stephen Thomas Erlewine noted that the song has been "covered frequently, and by a bizarre group of artists: Broadway star Joel Grey, the Finnish symphonic metal band Apocalyptica, fusion guitarist Frank Gambale, the Bluegrass-inspired Cache Valley Drifters, and heavy metal band Helloween. That wildly eclectic list proves that 'White Room' is a multi-faceted song, containing equal parts dramatic spectacle, intricate musicality, and hard rock menace. Other artists emphasize different elements in their interpretations, but the original Cream version wrapped it all up in one startling package".

Billboard described the single as a "solid, driving rocker".

Deep Purple version
A version of the track was featured on Deep Purple's 2021 covers album Turning to Crime.

Personnel

 * Ian Gillan – lead and backing vocals
 * Roger Glover – bass
 * Ian Paice – drums
 * Steve Morse – guitar
 * Don Airey – keyboards

title: White Room