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R10 (New York City Subway car)

The R10 was the first series of post-war New York City Subway cars. They were built by the American Car and Foundry Company from 1948 to 1949 for the IND/BMT B Division. A total of 400 cars were built, arranged as single units. Two versions were manufactured: Westinghouse (WH)-powered cars and General Electric (GE)-powered cars. The R10s introduced many innovations, including an all-welded low-alloy high tensile (LAHT) steel construction, dynamic braking, improved propulsion, and various cosmetic features.

The first R10s entered service on November 20, 1948. Various modifications were made over the years to the R10 fleet, and about 110 cars were lightly overhauled in 1984–1986. Some R10s were replaced by the R46s in the late 1970s; the remaining cars, despite having low reliability rates, outlasted several newer car classes. The remaining R10s were replaced by the R68s and R68As and last ran on October 29, 1989. Two cars have been preserved, while the rest were scrapped.

Description
The R10s were originally numbered 1803–1852 and 3000–3349. Cars 1803–1852 were renumbered 2950–2999 in 1970.

As the first series of post-war subway cars, the R10s introduced many innovations. For the first time, the car body was of an all-welded low-alloy high tensile (LAHT) steel construction. This gave the body great strength, as the body and underframe were welded together to form a single, durable, and rigid car body, which had strong structural integrity. The R10s also featured a new type of braking system known as the "SMEE" schedule braking, which introduced dynamic braking. Dynamic braking reduced wear and tear on brake shoes, reducing maintenance costs. Improved propulsion, in the form of four 100 hp traction motors design, instead of the traditional two 190 hp motors (the setup used in the R1–9 fleet), improved acceleration from 1.75 mph/s to the current 2.5 mph/s. They also featured roofline side destination signs, an arrangement that drew criticism. The R10s were also the first subway cars to incorporate roller bearings, instead of the standard friction bearings found on all older railway stock, as well as being the last subway cars ordered with air-operated door engines. Additionally, the R10s were the first subway cars to be equipped with air horns, as opposed to the air whistles that were found on all pre-war subway cars. Finally, the cars introduced the General Steel Industries cast steel truck frame design also used on many passenger cars and coaches up until the R68As in 1988. Sealed beam headlights were installed on all cars of this class starting in 1956.

These cars were nicknamed "Thunderbirds" by their operating personnel and railfans because of the cars' high speeds.

Although the they could operate in mixed consists of later SMEE cars, the R10s, for the most part, ran in solid consists throughout their careers. They were briefly mixed with fifty R16s assigned to the A in the late 1950s, and with the R42s assigned to the A during 1969–1970.

The R10s bore several paint schemes during their service lives. The cars were delivered in two-tone grey with orange stripes. In 1964, nine of these cars were painted red with black roofs and black skirts (1822, 1825, 1850, 3099, 3101, 3137, 3234, 3334, 3342). During the following year, two versions of the original paint scheme were tested, with 3037 in a lighter gray and 3218 in a darker gray. On car 3133, the orange painted-on stripe was replaced by an attached orange plastic strip along the sides of the car. From 1965–1966, they were repainted into an aqua blue/white scheme, directly replicating that of the World’s Fair R33s and R36s. The first car to be so painted, 3331, additionally sported a TA seal on the end. The following year, the fleet was redone in this scheme on this occasion without the extra aqua blue stripe. These cars variously had aqua blue roofs or white roofs; 19 of these cars received gray roofs and gray skirts. Beginning in 1970, they were repainted into the MTA's silver with blue stripe scheme. Toward the end of their lives, 110 Westinghouse units that went under the GOH program were painted with a green body, a silver roof, and a black front hood.

The original interior paint scheme was blue and gray, conducted with various experiments of this nature. While 1848 was all blue inside, 3219 was painted with bright orange and blue around 1964. When the cars were painted with silver and blue outside, the interiors received a light gray and pale green paint scheme (on car 1806, which was 2953 by this time, a dark gray was used). At a later date, the original blue and gray scheme resumed being used once again. The rattan seats also received treatment on certain cars, with 3050 in green coloring, whereas 3210 in a bright blue color.

Other features to be noted were a pair of stainless steel doors that were tested on car 3119, ventilation louvres that were inserted into the side doors on car 3138, and three cross seats that were extended to permit seating by three people on car 3189. These were done during the 1970s.

The R10 was the last B-Division car to have seats that had thick strand woven cloths covering the entire seat.

Pre-introduction
In 1947, following an accident in 1946, R7A car 1575 was rebuilt from its original appearance by ACF and became the prototype for the R10. The car was designed to test new interior and cosmetic features. After it was rebuilt, 1575 re-entered service on June 30, 1947; however, while it cosmetically resembled an R10, mechanically and electrically, it was still an R7A and could only operate with other pre-war IND R1–9 fleet cars.

Delivery and revenue service
The R10s first ran in service on the route on November 20, 1948. They were initially the mainstay, and were exclusively assigned to this train, where they remained for almost 30 years, and became synonymous with that route for more than 20 years. During these early years, they made occasional appearances on the service (especially on weekends) and the rush hour  service.

Thirty cars, numbered 3320–3349 were transferred to the BMT Eastern Division in 1954, and primarily used on Broadway–Jamaica service to help familiarize crews with SMEE equipment in anticipation of the arrival of the R16 cars, whereupon they were returned to normal IND service.

Then, some R10s were finally displaced from the beginning in 1969, when brand new R42 cars, R44 cars, and displaced R40 cars were transferred from Jamaica Yard beginning on September 13, 1977 (which was, in turn, receiving brand new R46s were directly assigned to the  (so that the  train could be equipped with some air-conditioned cars). Many of these displaced R10s were then often used on the  and later, the rush hours-only  (now the ). During 1978–1979, 2950–2999 were also transferred to Jamaica Yard for use on the  (now the  Brooklyn/Queens Crosstown Local). Ultimately, the fleet was essentially assigned to the  and  service; however, during the R46 truck crisis, they needed to be placed back into regular  service as its R44s were moved to Jamaica Yard for service on the, , , and. Many R10s were used for a few weeks on the, then for a slightly longer period on the and , until the truck crisis was resolved and the R10s were once again, for the most part back, on the  and  with only occasional usage on the  until April 1983.

In 1975, car 3192 had a new R42 type front installed; it was a prototype car for a complete rebuilding of the fleet, which would add modern interiors and air-conditioning. The unit was scrapped in 1980 inside Coney Island Yard and the rebuilding program never took place with the other cars because of the higher cost of rebuilding the cars as opposed to purchasing new cars.

There was a light overhaul program for 110 of the WH-powered cars between December 1984 and February 1986 in an effort to get the entire fleet in a non-graffiti state. The rehabilitation of the select R10s was done in-house at a budgeted cost of $65,000 per car.

Retirement
Approximately 53 R10s were replaced by the R46s in 1977–8. While the remaining cars may have been considered the second worst operating revenue service car during the 1980s based on MDBF (Mean Distance Between Failures), doing better than only the R46s, many R10s outlasted the newer R11s and R16s.

The remaining R10s were replaced by the R68s and R68As. The last train of GE-powered R10s and non-overhauled WH-powered R10s ran on November 10, 1988, ten days short of the 40th anniversary of their debut. This was an official date; some were still operating in service as late as February 1989. The rebuilt WH-powered R10s were withdrawn from March 1989 to September 8, 1989, when the last revenue service train ran on the. On October 29, 1989, a train of R10s (3018-3203-3182-2974-3143-3045-3145-3216) led one final farewell excursion run on various IND-BMT Division routes, including the then-new IND 63rd Street Line.

After retirement, most cars were sent to what is now Sims Metal Management's Newark facility to be scrapped and processed. Most R10s were scrapped by June 1990; the last R10 to be taken off property was 3081, the last GE-powered car in existence. It was scrapped sometime in 1993.

Two cars have been preserved:
 * Car 3184 has been preserved by the Railway Preservation Corp. and was previously displayed at the New York Transit Museum. It was repainted into its original two-tone gray and orange striped paint scheme, similar to R7A 1575. The car was restored to operating status in 2017 and has been operating on New York City Transit Museum-sponsored excursions since July 2017, specifically on the Train of Many Metals (TOMM).
 * Car 3189 has been preserved by the New York Transit Museum. The car had an experimental 3-passenger transverse fiberglass interior seating installed in 1969, which has since been removed. It was retired from revenue service in 1984, but was later repainted solid blue and used as a training car for road car inspectors at the TA's Pitkin Yard in Brooklyn. The car was restored to operating status in 2022 – during which the car was repainted into the aqua blue/white scheme – and has been operating on New York Transit Museum-sponsored excursions since September 2022.

title: R10 (New York City Subway car)


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MJK

MJK may refer to:
 * Maynard James Keenan (born 1964), American rock singer
 * Marinejegerkommandoen, Norwegian maritime special operation forces unit
 * Shark Bay Airport, IATA airport code "MJK"

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: MJK


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Pal (dog)

Pal (June 4, 1940 – June 18, 1958) was a male Rough Collie performer and the first in a line of such dogs to portray the fictional female collie Lassie in film, on radio, and on television. In 1992, The Saturday Evening Post said Pal had "the most spectacular canine career in film history".

MGM films
Pal's big break into the movies came in 1943 during the filing of the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer film Lassie Come Home. The studios had decided to use a show collie trained by Frank Inn in the movie. A decision was made to take advantage of a massive flooding of the San Joaquin River in central California in order to obtain some spectacular footage for the film. Pal performed exceptionally well and the scene was completed in one take. Weatherwax said director Fred M. Wilcox was so impressed with Pal during the sequence that he had "tears in his eyes." In response, producers released the female collie and hired Pal in her stead, reshooting the first six weeks of the filming with Pal now portraying Lassie. Other sources say that the female collie was replaced because she began to shed excessively during shooting of the film in the summer.

Legacy
In 2000, the Lassie trademark was sold by the eight remaining members of the Weatherwax family to Classic Media (which in 2012, Classic Media was acquired by DreamWorks Animation and renamed into DreamWorks Classics and ultimately became the property of trademarks' current owners, Universal Studios as of 2016). In 2004, Robert Weatherwax's personal contract to supply a dog to play the role of Lassie ended and neither side pursued a renewal. After several years of stand-in collies that were not related to the line, Classic Media contracted with Carol Riggins, who had been co-trainer with Robert Weatherwax, and her 9th generation dog HeyHey, who had played the role of Lassie during the last 13 episodes of the Canada Lassie series under the Weatherwax Trained Dogs banner. Carol Riggins continues today as the official owner and trainer of Lassie with another "Pal", a 10th generation direct descendant of the original Pal.

Pal was portrayed on the Snatch Game Of Love challenge during the ninth season of RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars by contestant Gottmik.

title: Pal (dog)


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Williamson diamond mine

The Williamson Diamond Mine (also known as the Mwadui mine) is a diamond mine 23 km northeast of Shinyanga in Tanzania; it became well known as the first significant diamond mine outside of South Africa. The kimberlite pipe was found in March 1940 and the mine established by John Williamson, a Canadian geologist, and has been continuous operation since then, making it one of the oldest continuously operating diamond mines in the world. Over its lifetime it has produced over 19 million carats (3,800 kg) of diamonds. A 2020 report by The Guardian said that high-quality pink diamonds from the mine could value up to $700,000 a carat.

The Williamson mine was once owned by its namesake Williamson and later nationalized by the government of Tanzania. Since February 2009 the mine is mostly owned by Petra Diamonds, with 75% ownership, the government of Tanzania owning the remaining 25%. In 2020, the mine came under scrutiny because of alleged human rights violations.

Description
The Williamson diamond mine is a large open pit mine currently about 90 meters (300 ft) deep. Diamond mining operations at the Williamson diamond mine are composed of four distinct activities: mining of the pit, re-treatment of tailings to recover missed diamonds, and gravel mining both on the property and adjacent to the property where gravel has been alluvially deposited. The open pit mining and tailings re-treatment are the largest of the four operations. The mine employs about 1,100 staff, mostly Tanzanians.

Location
The mine is located about 160 km south of the town of Mwanza in Kishapu District of Shinyanga Region. Williamson, the discoverer of the site, first owner and namesake of the mine, named the site "Mwadui" after a local chief; "Williamson" and "Mwadui" are now virtually synonymous in the diamond mining world.

Geology
The most important geological feature of the Williamson diamond mine is the kimberlite pipe on which it is located. At 146 hectare in area at surface level, it ranks as the largest economically exploitable diamond-bearing volcanic pipe in the world. Recent exploratory drill cores conducted by De Beers have indicated that the pipe is a pyroclastic kimberlite, not a hypabyssal kimberlite as earlier suspected. This indicates that it may be possible to extend the current 90-meter deep open pit to as much as 350 meters deep, and continue down even further with underground mining operations. However, a review of mine operations and long term plans continues.

Production
The Williamson diamond mine is now characterized by low ore grade of about 6 carat per hundred tons (12 mg/t) of ore. This is a dramatic decrease from its production in the mine's early life; during the first 25 years of operation, average ore grade was about 30 carat per hundred tons (60 mg/t); in the first few years of full operation grades were as high as 62 carat per hundred tons (124 mg/t), or 10 times the ore realized today. Production in the 1950s and 1960s was usually between 500,000 and 750,000 carats (100 and 150 kg) per year; the peak year of production was 1966, when 924,984 carats (185 kg) were produced. Today production levels for all Williamson mine diamond recovery activities is about 300,000 carats (60 kg) per year.

Notable stones produced at the Williamson mine include the 54.5 carat Williamson pink diamond which was presented to then-Princess Elizabeth and Prince Philip upon their wedding in 1947, and a 388 carat diamond found in 1990.

History
The diamond industry of Tanzania in the 1930s was characterized by a scattering of very small mining operations that were insignificant in the economic makeup of the country. Williamson was hired by one of these operations, the Mabuki diamond mine, in 1938 and used it as his base for diamond prospecting in the region. In 1940 he discovered the Mwadui kimberlite pipe; over the next several years he developed the mine, although he was hindered by difficulty in procuring equipment and raising funds due to World War II. By the 1950s he had developed the Williamson diamond mine into the first significant diamond mine in Tanzania. The mine was visited in the early 1950s by the US author John Gunther who describes it in his book Inside Africa. The mine then employed 2,600 African workers, 110 Europeans and 60 Asians. The mine was noted for technical innovations in diamond mining which were developed under Williamson's watch. Williamson closely managed the mine until his death in 1958 at the age of 50.

Williamson's heirs sold the mine for about £4 million GBP to an equal partnership between De Beers and the colonial government of Tanganyika on August 13, 1958. In 1971, a decade after Tanzania's independence, the government nationalized the mine. Although details are unknown, De Beers and other diamond industry players speculate that mine performance deteriorated significantly in the 1980s under government management. Suspected causes of this are a decrease in ore grade as the mine's richer deposits were worked out, loss of skilled foreign management and engineering staff, a bloated labor force resulting from government employment efforts, and inadequate capital investment in the mine's equipment. Perhaps as a result of this poor performance, Tanzania invited De Beers to purchase back into the mine, which the company did. In 1994 De Beers bought 75% of the Williamson mine, with Tanzania retaining the remaining shares.

Since 1994, De Beers has acted to improve the performance of the Williamson diamond mine by trimming the work force, making capital investment in equipment, and bringing in expertise in technology, technique, and exploration. Although the mine is still viewed as a marginal performer due to its low ore grade, De Beers has identified avenues for development that would keep the mine operating into the future.

In September 2008, Petra Diamonds Ltd agreed to acquire the Williamson Mine from De Beers and completed the acquisition in February 2009.

In April 2020, the mine was mothballed after the collapse of diamond prices.

Although in February 2021 Petra & the Tanzanian Government entered discussions to reopen the mine in Q4 2021, but that did not happen.

In September 2021 Petra announced that it was seeking a buyer for the mine. Confirming news reports from March, when the company prospectus described the mine as permanently closed.

Recreation
The mine was equipped with a range of sporting facilities. These included public swimming pool, tennis and squash courts, soccer field, athletics track, golf course and yacht club. There was also a surgical hospital staffed by two English and an Indian doctor and nursing staff. The hospital used to treat the mine employees for free, and poor people from neighbouring areas could take treatment there at nominal charges. These facilities fell into disrepair after the colonial era, but remain partly maintained by the mine.

2020 human rights allegations
A lawsuit against for human rights violations by guards was filed in May 2020 in the High Court of England and Wales. NGO RAID claimed evidence of harm by contracted guards who shot locals on the concession, including 10 killings and 50 injuries since 2009. Following the report, Petra Diamon initiated an internal investigation. Initial internal investigations found record of only one live-fire incident during the alleged window, alongside other use of "reasonable force" against illegal miners.

title: Williamson diamond mine


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The Political Party (Norway)

The Political Party (Det politiske parti) was a satirical political party that was active in Norway from 2000 to 2001. It was established by comedians Johan Golden and Atle Antonsen. The party made its entry in Norwegian politics during the 2001 Norwegian parliamentary election. The two leaders were noted for introducing slogans like "Atle Antonsen — Working for all the people" and "Johan Golden — Your slave in parliament". Golden was also fronted as the party's candidate for Prime Minister.

According to the party's platform, any representative of the party elected to parliament was to vote whatever the people wanted him or her to vote. To find out what the people wanted, they were to hold a poll on their web-site for every parliamentary issue the party got involved in. They also claimed that, were the people to vote 70% in favour and 30% against an issue, they would work 70% for it and 30% against it. Thus, the Political Party in some sense promoted the thought of direct democracy. The party program states that the Political Party is founded on the ideals of freedom, justice and politics.

In the general election of 2001, the party got nearly 1% of all votes made. The result was rather different in the school-elections where the Political Party got 8% of the votes. If these had been parliamentary elections, the party would have gained approximately 12 representatives in parliament.

The Political Party was active only in the general election of 2001.

title: The Political Party (Norway)


text: File:Tonibraxtonsnowflakes.jpg

title: File:Tonibraxtonsnowflakes.jpg


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Comparison of display technology

This is a comparison of various properties of different display technologies.

General characteristics
Major technologies are CRT, LCD and its derivatives (Quantum dot display, LED backlit LCD, WLCD, OLCD), Plasma, and OLED and its derivatives (Transparent OLED, PMOLED, AMOLED). An emerging technology is Micro LED. Cancelled and now obsolete technologies are SED and FED.

Temporal characteristics
Different display technologies have vastly different temporal characteristics, leading to perceptual differences of motion, flicker, etc.

The figure shows a sketch of how different technologies present a single white/grey frame. Time and intensity is not to scale. Notice that some have a fixed intensity, while the illuminated period is variable. This is a kind of pulse-width modulation. Others can vary the actual intensity in response to the input signal.

 * Single-chip DLPs use a kind of "chromatic multiplexing" in which each color is presented serially. The intensity is varied by modulating the "on" time of each pixel within the time-span of one color. Multi-chip DLPs are not represented in this sketch, but would have a curve identical to the plasma display.
 * LCDs have a constant (backlit) image, where the intensity is varied by blocking the light shining through the panel.
 * CRTs use an electron beam, scanning the display, flashing a lit image. If interlacing is used, a single full-resolution image results in two "flashes". The physical properties of the phosphor are responsible for the rise and decay curves.
 * Plasma displays modulate the "on" time of each sub-pixel, similar to DLP.
 * Movie theaters use a mechanical shutter to illuminate the same frame 2 or 3 times, increasing the flicker frequency to make it less perceptible to the human eye.

Research
Researchers announced a display that uses silicon metasurface pixels that do not require polarized light and require half the energy. It employs a transparent conductive oxide as a heater that can quickly change the pixels. The pixels are 100 times thinner than liquid crystal. Response times are under 1 millisecond. They claim that the metasurface array could replace the liquid crystal layer in today's displays, eliminating the need for production technology.

title: Comparison of display technology


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Tannum Sands, Queensland

Tannum Sands is a coastal town and locality in the Gladstone Region, Queensland, Australia. In the, the locality of Tannum Sands had a population of 5,227 people.

Geography
The locality is bounded to north-east by the Coral Sea, to the north-west and west by the Boyne River, and to the south-west by Station Creek. The town of Tannum Sands is located in the northern part of the locality.

Canoe Point is at the northern tip of the locality (-23.9375°N, 151.366°W).

The locality includes Wild Cattle Island (-23.9842°N, 151.412°W) which is separated from the mainland east coast by a narrow channel known as Wild Cattle Creek. The island's east coast facing the Coral Sea is a long sandy strip called Wild Cattle Beach (-23.97°N, 151.40917°W). Most of the island is within the Wild Cattle Island National Park with the small town of Bangalee at its southern tip (-24.0052°N, 151.4319°W).

Tannum Sands has a neighbouring twin town called Boyne Island. The two localities are separated only by the Boyne River and joined by a bridge.

Tannum Sands is primarily a tourist and residential town. It is a major residential area for the nearby Boyne Island Aluminium Smelter and Gladstone-based industries.

History
The area south of the Boyne River was originally known as Redcliff (being the colour of the stoney cliffs) and then renamed Wild Cattle Creek (being the name of the creek that flows through the area) and had been a popular fishing and picnic location for the people of Boyne Island, but remained unsettled due to its inaccessibility. Closer settlement began in the late 1930s when 12 beach front lots were auctioned. The town received its original name Tannum when a group of children returned from a Sunday School picnic to the beach quite sunburnt. The comment was made "we can really tan 'um over there." One of the people present worked for the Queensland Land Department thought it would be a good name for the area and registered the name.

The Tannum Progress Association held sports days. Over 1000 people attended on New Year's Day in 1949.

On 12 April 1951, the town was renamed Tannum Sands.

A bridge connecting Tannum Sands to Boyne Island was constructed as a result of the construction of the Boyne Island Aluminium Smelter. It was opened on 11 October 1980 by E.A.D. Cameron, Chairman of the Calliope Shire Council.

Tannum Sands Uniting Church was built in 1980.

Tannum Sands State School was opened on 24 January 1983.

The Boyne Tannum Hookup fishing competition began on 7 June 1996 and has run annually ever since.

Tannum Sands State High School was opened on 22 January 1998 with 287 students in Years 7 and 8.

St Peter Chanel Catholic Church was built in 2006.

St Francis Catholic Primary School was opened in January 2005.

Demographics
In the, the locality of Tannum Sands had a population of 5,145 people.

In the, the locality of Tannum Sands had a population of 5,227 people.

Education
Tannum Sands hosts a number of schools including a public primary school, a public high school, and a Catholic primary school. They draw students from both the local areas but also from the wider region including from Miriam Vale, Benaraby, and Calliope.

Tannum Sands State School is a government primary (Prep-6) school for boys and girls at Waratah Crescent (-23.9509°N, 151.3648°W). In 2017, the school had an enrolment of 736 students with 49 teachers (45 full-time equivalent) and 27 non-teaching staff (18 full-time equivalent). In 2018, the school had an enrolment of 693 students with 52 teachers (46 full-time equivalent) and 35 non-teaching staff (23 full-time equivalent). It includes a special education program.

St Francis Catholic Primary School is a Catholic primary (Prep-6) school for boys and girls at Francis Way (-23.9431°N, 151.3609°W). In 2017, the school had an enrolment of 231 students with 21 teachers (17 full-time equivalent) and 15 non-teaching staff (8 full-time equivalent). In 2018, the school had an enrolment of 205 students with 21 teachers (16 full-time equivalent) and 14 non-teaching staff (6 full-time equivalent).

Tannum Sands State High School is a government secondary (7-12) school for boys and girls at 65 Coronation Drive (-23.9596°N, 151.3643°W). In 2017, the school had an enrolment of 1,066 students with 86 teachers (82 full-time equivalent) and 44 non-teaching staff (31 full-time equivalent). In 2018, the school had an enrolment of 986 students with 87 teachers (81 full-time equivalent) and 44 non-teaching staff (31 full-time equivalent). It includes a special education program.

Amenities
The Tannum Sands branch of the Queensland Country Women's Association meets at the QCWA Hall at 1 Steele Street.

Tannum Sands Uniting Church is at 12 Silverton Drive (-23.97279°N, 151.366°W). It is within the Presbytery of Central Queensland and the Synod of Queensland.

St Peter Chanel Catholic Church is in Francis Way (-23.94332°N, 151.361°W). It is within the Roman Catholic Diocese of Rockhampton.

Tannum Sands has a beach patrolled by surf lifesavers.

There are two boat ramps in the locality, both managed by the Gladstone Regional Council:

 * Wild Cattle Creek Road boat ramp on the southern bank of Wild Cattle Creek (-23.9587°N, 151.3829°W)

 * Tiller Street boat ramp at Ibis Park on the western bank of the Boyne River (-23.9558°N, 151.3614°W)

Sport
Boyne-Tannum has teams competing in soccer, rugby league, Australian rules football, cricket, touch football, netball, tennis, surf lifesaving, swimming, and hockey. The area has two sporting grounds: BITS (Boyne Island Tannum Sands) club for cricket, football, golf, soccer, and lawn bowls, and Dennis Park for touch football, netball, and rugby league. Within Tannum Sands itself is the Tannum Sands Tennis Association and the Tannum Sands Squash Centre. The latter also provides rock climbing and a gymnasium.

The local rugby league team are the Tannum Sands Seagulls, who compete in the Gladstone District Rugby League competition.

Kiteboarding is a rapidly growing sport in the region, with Tannum Sands becoming a nationally renowned location.

Tannum Sands also has a growing number of horse riders racing along the beach.

Events
Boyne Island and Tannum Sands are also home to the Boyne Tannum Hookup, Australia's largest family fishing event held on the King's Birthday long weekend. The event is held at Bray Park. This event is very popular with more than 3,000 entrants.

The Coconet Classic is an annual kiteboaring event. It was formerly the National Kiteboarding Titles, but became an open event held during the Easter long weekend.

Tannum Sands is well known as a fishing venue with access to the Great Barrier Reef, the Boyne River and Lake Awoonga.

Hazards
Saltwater crocodiles have been sighted on Wild Cattle Island and in Wild Cattle Creek.

title: Tannum Sands, Queensland


text:
Loretta Harrop

Loretta "Loz" Harrop (born July 17, 1975, in Brisbane, Queensland) is an Australian triathlete.

As a teenager she attended Cavendish Road State High School along with her siblings and as of 2007 has a house named after her. Harrop house which will go by the colour red.

Harrop competed at the first Olympic triathlon at the 2000 Summer Olympics. She placed fifth with a total time of 2:01:42.82. Her split times were 19:37.98 for the swim, 1:05:40.70 for the cycling, and 0:36:24.14 for the run.

Four years later, Harrop competed in the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens. She was even more successful this time, winning a silver medal with the time of 2:04:50.17. The splits for that run were 18:37.00 for the swim, 1:09:05.00 for the cycling, and 37:08.00 for the run.

Harrop is married to Brad Jones who was a talented Australian rules player in the AFLQ (Queensland) competition. Her son Hayden and daughter Emerson are both professional tennis players.

title: Loretta Harrop


text:
Talk:DBA

Perhaps Dba should point here and the Dba article should be renamed Deutsche BA. -- Wgsimon 22:14, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that DBA should redirect to Database administrator. However, pointing here (to the disambiguation page) would be preferable to redirecting to the airline ( DBA (airline) ) as it does now! Kace7 (talk) 19:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

--- Removed from list *dba may refer to Doing Business As, e.g. as in "Continental flight operated by ExpressJet Airlines, Inc. dba Continental Express". because (a) it has self-referential links, and (b) more importantly this is a disambiguation page. if you want to write about Doing Business As on its own page then please do so, but general definitions don't seem to belong here. --Lost tourist 10:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

dba - artist
I wonder if the dance music artist dba should be added to the list. I don't think they have a page, or at least I haven't found one. I'm trying to find more info about this artist, so maybe I'll get around to creating a page myself.

Matthiashess (talk) 18:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:DBA


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R10 (New York City Subway car)

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. Postdlf 22:26, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

R10 (New York City Subway car)
Nn. LevelCheck 22:14, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, seems factual, forms part of a larger article series about railway systems that it would be difficult to merge into anything. Slac speak up!  23:53, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep article as part of a series on NYC subway cars. This is actually one of the better articles in that series. Sjakkalle 07:20, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep (or make a huge article at New York City Subway rolling stock from merging them all). --SPUI (talk) 13:09, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Has some really good information.Pacific Coast Highway 00:25, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Montanus

Montanus (Greek: Μοντανός) was the second century founder of Montanism and a self-proclaimed prophet. Montanus emphasized the work of the Holy Spirit, in a manner which set him apart from the Great Church.

Life
Little is known about the life of Montanus. Montanus used to be a pagan priest, but converted into Christianity. Montanus began his prophesying in a village called Ardabau, Phrygia. Montanus started prophesying circa 157–172, but Church Fathers give differing dates. Montanus was assisted by two women, Prisca and Maximilla, who also claimed to have prophecies.

Teachings
The teachings of Montanism include:

 * 1) That a new age of prosperity would come, and New Jerusalem will soon be established in Pepuza.
 * 2) One could marry only once.
 * 3) Abandoning marriage for spiritual reasons was allowed.
 * 4) Every true Christian had to have recognizable spiritual gifts.
 * 5) Martyrdom was encouraged and trying to escape was seen as bad.
 * 6) The prophets could forgive sins.
 * 7) The church could never permit apostates, murderers and fornicators back.
 * 8) Opposition to formalism in theology.
 * 9) A high emphasis on morality.

Impact
The influence of Montanus and Marcion helped to spur the early church to begin the process of developing the New Testament canon. Montanus was heavily attacked by other early church theologians and seen as a heretic. However, Tertullian is often said to have adopted Montanism.

title: Montanus


text:
Talk:Montanus

Can information be hidden here?

title: Talk:Montanus


text: User talk:68.80.4.151

title: User talk:68.80.4.151


text:
User talk:U193581/Archive 4

Archived talk
''Talk previous to 21 July 2005 is archieved at the links below. '' Talk to 8 Dec 2004 9 Dec 04 - 26 Feb 05 27 Feb 05 - 17 Apr 05 18 April 05 - 21 Jul 05 19 April 05 - 20 Dec 05

archived talk4
Edwin

It is true that a group of supporters contineued the the reform party in Minnesota But that group is the Minnesota Reform Party. I was actually thinking of writting a litte blurb about them but their webpage seems have been dorminate since 02. They would belong a different page their own. The RP of Minnesota would be seperate from this group. The RP of Minn is the the same party as the IP of Mn. Here is an anlogoy. Malcom X was born Malcom Little, so by your logic we should have two articles on the same person because he had two different names.

You have yet to provided a reason why the RP of MN should have it own page. All the info on it is already covered on the IP unilateral decisions are you not also doing that ?

off topic but, I am curious since you are a DFLer, would you support the party dropping the Farmer-Labor part of their name and just be the Mn Democratic Party?Smith03 15:44, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I have responded to your last question on your talk page. I am formulating a thoughtful response to the rest. EdwinHJ |Talk 21:08, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

thanks for the reply. It not an issue that gets kick around too much. I just like to get peoples opinions on it especially people who ID themselves as Democrats or DFL.Smith03 15:44, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC) for the record I would like to see them drop it but it probably won't happen anytime soon

You may want to weigh in on this
I personally think that there is no good reason to delete this, but rather to re-write in a NPOV manner. Votes for deletion/Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Sea Islands MicahMN | Talk 23:18, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Australian Labor Party

 * That's alright. Careful wording is a very difficult thing to get people to agree upon, so I'm glad you concur :). Slac  speak up!  23:57, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Lutheran-stub
Hi Edwin - just thought you'd like to know that no-one objected to the idea of Lutheran-stub, so I've just added it to the list of stub templates. Grutness...  wha?  04:09, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

World Council of Churches
Looking back at the history I noticed you tried to impose NPOV. user:Guy Montag insists on putting in POV on this, I will be lookirg at it, could you also keep an eye on it. Paul foord 02:27, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Hey Edwin, thanks for your kind words, and vote in support of my admin nomination. Paul August ☎ 17:39, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Greetings
Hail, fellow "genetic Lutheran"! Congratulations for your work on the "Evangelical Lutheran Church in America" article. Are you a member of it? I am; I've served on the Grand Canyon Synod Council among other institutions. —Vespristiano 00:53, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

commons:Image:MAC logo.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, commons:Image:MAC logo.jpg, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in its not being deleted. Thank you. —MetsBot 19:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Selective Service System does issue cards
Hello:

I'm reverting your edit because SSS does issue cards. See. It sounds like you're not an American resident or you never registered with the SSS. Nearly all American males are required to register under federal law.

Although the card is technically called a "registration acknowledgement card," it serves as a de facto identification document because if we really had a national identity card, then conscription could be done by simply entering queries against a main national identification database instead of maintaining a separate database just for conscription.

I am a US resident and I have yet to meet a single man who carries a SSS registration card in their wallet. the card that the SSS sends is simply confirmation of registration, not an identification document. EdwinHJ | Talk 01:48, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

--Coolcaesar 01:16, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Directness
Frankly my wikistress is so high I thought, and do think, relaying my concerns to someone you would listen to rather than (potentially) get drwan into an edit war or drawn out debate (I have a tendaency towards diatribe). Some wikipedians (this is not an allegation) think that they are never capable of loosing control (going wikibonkers per se), I know better about myself, and I choose a third party through no fault of yours, but from fear of mine. Cheers. -JCarriker 01:35, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

New User Category
I have created a couple of new user categories modeled after UK Wikipedians. One of them is for our generation, born in the 1980s or 1990s. Please consider listing yourself under Category:Millennial Wikipedians Thanks. -JCarriker 18:47, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Totally Obvious
I suggest you stop your smear campaign to delete the Totally Obvious article, or else... El Maestro

renaming Elizabeth II
Why have you proposed the renaming of Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom yet again? This has been debated to death, the last vote only finished 9 days ago!!! Please stop revisiting an issue that is closed. I am deleting the vote. It is a farce to keep having to revote on the thing. The last time 92% voted to keep the page where it is. FearÉIREANN[\(caint)|undefined 17:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Obnoxious
How exactly is it obnoxious to use the signature Man of Ireland in Irish? If you have a problem with a user using the Irish language, that is simply a reflection of your own rascism and bigotry. Fear ÉIREANN \(caint) 21:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Ditto here. Frankly, I find it pleasant to see a splash of green and orange to offset the usual array of white, blue, and gray. Regarding the Elizabeth II issue, the only reason Jtdirl is acting like this is because he saw it before I, John Kenney, Astrotrain, or any number of others did. The issue has been debated to death and is closed barring political revolution in Britain or elsewhere. She's not Queen of the Commonwealth Realms; there's no such animal. Please let it be. Best, Mackensen (talk) 21:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

(comment directly below was placed by Edwin above the paragraph above, but I moved it, or else it would seem that Mackensen was endorsing what I say below. It would be wrong to create that impression.)  Fear ÉIREANN \(caint)

 * I'm sorry if you (FearEireann) thought I had a problem with your slogan or you personally. I guess I find your signature to be unconventional and it seems to draw a lot of attention. But I should not fault you for that. I'm also sorry if I was a little harsh, this is a topic that is really important to me and I guess I was frustrated that I didn't play a bigger role when the move was suggested before. On a different note, I want you to know that I love everything about the Irish, their music, their culture, food, music, dance and language (and Guinness!).EdwinHJ | Talk 23:11, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * No problem. I understand your concerns about the issue of QEII. Personally I have no problem with creating a disambigulation page and a series of articles on HM's role in her various realms. I don't think however that dropping the of the UK bit of the current name is the best way to go. After all James I was King of England, Scotland, Ireland and theoretically of France, Mary II queen of those realms. Victoria was Queen of the UK, Queen in Canada, Empress of India, etc. It could become a tangled web of pages with an undefined monarchs provoking edit wars. We need to find another way that keeps the sequence but covers the complexity. :-) Fear ÉIREANN [[Image:Ireland coa.png|20px]]\(caint)  23:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for voting in my RfA; I promise I'll wield my sacred mop with care. If you ever need me for anything, you know where to find me. Thanks again! -- Essjay ·  Talk 15:32, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:U193581/Archive 4


text:
Alpine plant

Alpine plants are plants that grow in an alpine climate, which occurs at high elevation and above the tree line. There are many different plant species and taxa that grow as a plant community in these alpine tundra. These include perennial grasses, sedges, forbs, cushion plants, mosses, and lichens. Alpine plants are adapted to the harsh conditions of the alpine environment, which include low temperatures, dryness, ultraviolet radiation, wind, drought, poor nutritional soil, and a short growing season.

Some alpine plants serve as medicinal plants.

Ecology
Alpine plants occur in a tundra: a type of natural region or biome that does not contain trees. Alpine tundra occurs in mountains worldwide. It transitions to subalpine forests below the tree line; stunted forests occurring at the forest-tundra ecotone are known as Krummholz. With increasing elevation, it ends at the snow line where snow and ice persist through summer, also known as the Nival Zone.

Alpine plants are not limited to higher elevations. However, high-elevation areas have different ecology than those growing at higher latitudes. One of the biggest distinctions is that the lower bound of a tropical alpine area is difficult to define due to a mixture of human disturbances, dry climates, and a naturally lacking tree line. The other major difference between tropical and arctic-alpine ecology is the temperature differences. The tropics have a summer/winter cycle every day, whereas the higher latitudes stay cold both day and night. In the northern latitudes, the main factor to overcome is the cold. Frost action processes have a strong effect on the soil and vegetation of arctic-alpine regions. Tropical alpine regions are subject to these conditions as well, but they seldom happen. Because northern alpine areas cover a massive area it can be difficult to generalize the characteristics that define the ecology. One factor in alpine ecology is wind in an area. Wind pruning is a common sight within northern alpine regions. Along with wind pruning, wind erosion of vegetation mats is a common sight throughout Alaska.

Growth
Long-lived perennial herbs are the most common type of plant in alpine environments, with most having a large, well-developed root and/or rhizome system. These underground systems store carbohydrates through the winter which are then used in the spring for new shoot development. Some species of saxifrages have small root systems, but are evergreen. The leaves of these plants store energy in the form of carbohydrates and lipids. Alpine plants go into vegetative dormancy at the end of the growing period, forming perennating buds with the shortening photoperiod.

Seedling establishment is very slow and occurs less often than vegetative reproduction. In the first year of growth of perennial alpine plants, most of the photosynthate is used in establishing a stable root system which is used to help prevent desiccation and for carbohydrate storage over winter. In this year, the plant may produce a few true leaves, but usually, only the cotyledons are produced. It usually takes a few years for plants to become well established.

Adaptations
Alpine plants can exist at very high elevations, from 300 to 6000 m, depending on location. For example, there is a moss that grows at 6480 m on Mount Everest. Arenaria bryophylla is the highest flowering plant in the world, occurring as high as 6180 m.

To survive, alpine plants are adapted to the conditions at high elevations, including cold, dryness, high levels of ultraviolet radiation, and difficulty of reproduction. These conditions are linked to topographical slope, ultimately affecting plant diversity and distribution. This is due to steeper slopes causing faster soil erosion which in turn impedes plant growth, seed distribution, and seed settlement. Furthermore, the slope of the topography directly affects many other abiotic factors including temperature, solar radiation, moisture content, and nutritional content in the soil.

Surviving low temperature extremes
Most alpine plants are faced with low-temperature extremes at some point in their lives. There are several ways that a plant can survive these extremes. Plants can avoid exposure to low temperature by using different forms of seasonal phenology, morphology, or by variable growth form preference. One way is to hide most of the plant in the soil and only letting the flowers and leaves be exposed to air. They can also avoid the freezing of their exposed tissues by increasing the number of solutes in their tissues, known as freezing-point depression. Another, somewhat similar, method plants may use to avoid freezing is supercooling, which prevents ice crystallization within plant tissues. These methods are only sufficient when the temperature is only moderately cold. In the alpine zone, temperatures are often low enough that these methods are not sufficient. When plants need a more permanent solution, they can develop freeze tolerance. Plants can also dehydrate their cells by moving water into intercellular spaces. This causes ice formation outside of the cell where ice crystals will not cause damage. When all of these strategies fail to prevent frost damage, alpine plants often have the capacity to repair or replace the organs damaged. As it is often difficult to prevent damage, many alpine plants depend on the replacement of their organs. They help make this possible by placing their meristems below ground, where temperatures are generally warmer.

Photosynthesis and respiration rates
Photosynthesis and respiration rates are not uniform throughout the growing season. At the start of the growing season, new shoots have low net photosynthesis rates and high respiration rates due to rapid growth of new shoots. As the temperature rises in a plants microclimate, the net photosynthesis rates will increase as long as ample water is available and will peak during flowering. Alpine plants are able to start photosynthesizing and reach maximum photosynthesis rates at lower temperatures compared to plants adapted to lower elevations and warmer climates. This is due to the combined effects of genotype and environmental factors.

Avoidance of desiccation

In alpine areas, water availability is often variable. Bryophytes and lichens exhibit high desiccation tolerance, which contributes to their abundance throughout all alpine areas habitats. Among higher plants, tissue desiccation is rare at high elevation. If it does occur, it normally happens to plants growing on exposed sites, where wind stress is increased. Alpine plants avoid water loss by deep rooting and increased stomatal control. Plants at low elevation normally reach a maximum stomatal opening in the morning while alpine plants reach maximum opening mid-day when the temperature is greatest. Alpine succulent plants often utilize CAM photosynthesis to avoid water loss.

Avoidance of ultraviolet radiation
Because ultraviolet radiation tends to increase with elevation, it is often assumed to be a stress factor among alpine plants. In the past, there have been many attempts to research how ultraviolet radiation may influence alpine plant forms. However, it is uncertain if the growth and development of plants are affected by ultraviolet radiation. It is also not clear if the radiation is responsible for promoting genetic differentiation, leading to stunted growth forms.

Reproduction
Alpine plants use both sexual reproduction and asexual reproduction. Sexual reproduction has limits in high alpine areas, especially in areas with a short growing season in alpine zones at high latitudes. In tropical alpine zones with a year-round growing season, such as the northern Andes, plants can flower year-round. Regardless of when alpine plants flower, pollinators are often scarce. The activity of pollinators decreases with increasing elevation. The most common pollinators in the alpine zone are bumblebees and flies. Plants utilize different strategies to deal with these limits, including alternate flowering time and clonal propagation.

Early flowering plants

Some plants flower immediately after snow melting or soil thawing. These early flowering plants always form their flowers in the previous season, called preformation. This flower primordium is produced one to three years before flowering which ensures that flowering is not delayed after snowmelt and that with the right environmental conditions, there will be enough time for seed set. Consequently, they risk frost damage to the preformed inflorescence. In order to minimize frost damage, preformed flowers are often surrounded by tightly packed bracts that are densely covered in trichomes. This helps to keep the interior of a flower bud warm. Because of early-season pollinator limitation, plants that bloom early generally have a low rate of reproductive success. One advantage of flowering early is that seeds that are produced have a greater chance of developing to maturity before the next freeze. They also have a high outcrossing rate, which helps to increase genetic diversity. Speed and time of flowering is dependent on the time of snowmelt, temperature, and photoperiod, but usually occurs 10 to 20 days after snowmelt. The alpine snowbell is a plant with a high enough metabolism that the heat is able to melt the surrounding snow.

Mid-season flowering
Approximately half of all alpine species flower in mid-season. Flowering at the seasonal peak combines some of the advantages and risks of early flowering and late flowering plants. Some mid-season plants pre-form their inflorescences, but not all do.

Late flowering
Late flowering occurs after the main growing season ends. They have a high seed output but their seeds have a reduced rate of maturing because of time constraints. These plants tend towards self pollination, apomixis, and vivipary.

Clonal propagation
Because investment in flowers and seed production can be costly for alpine plants, they often use clonal propagation. This strategy becomes increasingly more frequent as elevation increases, and is most common among cryptogams and grasses. Some alpine plants use it as their predominant method of reproduction. In these plants, sexual reproduction is rare and does not contribute significantly to reproductive output. An example of such a plant is Carex curvula, which is estimated to have a clonal age of approximately 2000 years. After establishment, each year new shoot growth occurs rapidly from the perennating bud which is usually located close to the soil surface. This growth occurs after snowmelt when the soil temperature is above 0 °C. Some species, like Erythronium grandiflorum, can begin new shoot growth before snowmelt as they have their perennating buds located in bulbs buried deep in the soil. As new leaves protrude from the snow, the new shoots give off heat from thermal reradiation and/or respiratory heat which melts the surrounding snow. This exposes more soil to solar radiation, heating it up and allowing new growth to accelerate.

Medicinal alpine plants
There are a number of alpine plants that are used economically. In the Himalayas, hundreds of species are traded for medicinal and aromatic uses. It is estimated that the annual trade of these plants amounts to millions of US dollars. Many households in rural Nepal and India rely on medicinal alpine plant trade as a source of income. This creates an increased need to focus on plant conservation in these areas, ensuring sustainable harvest as well as ecosystem sustainability. Some of the species harvested in Nepal include Neopicrorhiza scrophulariiflora, Nardostachys grandiflora, Aconitum spicatum, Dioscorea deltoidea, Aconitum heterophyllum, Rheum australe, and Bergenia. In the Indian Himalayas, the alpine medicinal plants such as Dactylorhiza hatagirea, Picrorhiza kurrooa, Aconitum heterophyllum, Fritillaria roylei, Podophyllum hexandrum are under severe pressure due to over-exploitation for commercial purposes.

title: Alpine plant


text:
User talk:Ecvjackass

Welcome!
Hello,, Welcome  to Wikipedia! '''I hope you like working here and want to continue. If you need help on how to name new articles, look at the Guide to layout, and for help on formatting the pages visit the Manual of Style. If you need general help, look at Help and the FAQ, and if you can't find your answer there, check the Village pump (for Wikipedia related questions) or the Reference Desk (for general questions). There's still more help at the Tutorial and the Policy Library. Also, don't forget to visit the Community Portal — and if you have any more questions after that, feel free to post them on my New-Users' Talk Page.'''

Additional tips:
 * Here are some extra tips to help you get around Wikipedia:
 * If you want to play around with your new Wiki skills, try the Sandbox.
 * Click on the Edit button on a page, and look at how other editors did what they did.
 * You can sign your name using three tildes, like this: ~~~. If you use four, you can add a datestamp too. Always sign comments on Talk pages, never sign Articles.
 * You might want to add yourself to the New User Log
 * If your first language isn't English, try Contributing to articles outside your native language
 * Full details on Wikipedia style can be found in the Manual of Style.

Happy editing!

E Clampus Vitus
I've rereverted you, since you dumped a copyright violation from http://www.ecvgazette.com/lostdutchman/KenCastrosHistoryofECV.htm into the middle of the article. If and when you do contribute in your own words, please check out Manual of style, so that the next time, you won't contribute an unmodified text dump. I'd also like for you to point out the "spelling mistakes and grammatical errors" you claim to have found. I did correct a couple of typos.

Please don't be discouraged about contributing, I don't hold my beginnings of articles to be artistic, just an attempt at an encyclopedia entry. You're very welcome to contribute in your own words. RickK 23:03, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * I reverted the article because the earlier version was more NPoV, and in more encyclopædic language. The later version read as though we were taking all the nonsense seriously and at face value.  I was trying to the article a favour, as the VfD is going to go against it if it continues to look kooky.  A short, neutral, factual article might survive; a long, loopy article almost certainly won't.  I realise that you're only here for this article, and so haven't really got a feel for Wikipedia.  I suggest strongly that you spend some time going through other Wikipedia articles, makig small edits where you think that they're necessary (but not like the one at, which was both superfluous and misspelt), until you're ready to do something on a larger scale. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 16:14, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * The fact that you take seriously the notion, for example, that "The origin and meaning of the [organisation's] name is secret and mysterious", and so on, illustrates why you're not going to understand my points above. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Epsilon;τητης ) 16:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * The fact of the matter is that the name IS secret and mysterious. As far as the "so on" comment, what else is it, specifically, that you object to? I do understand the points that you're attempting to make, but you're making them poorly. Its clear that you haven't read any of the article past that sentence, and made your decision based on that alone. Silly. I'm attempting to describe the history of E Clampus Vitus. Some of the history of the Order is nonsensical, however, much of it is very serious indeed.

 * 1) "For example" means just that — it's an example, not the whole thing.
 * 2) Your edit summary ignores my reasons, and concentrates on my response to your reply.
 * 3) Check Three-revert rule before you think of replacing your version. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 17:39, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * My edit summary does not ignore your reasons; your reasons are not well defined. My edit summary was an attempt to change the one objection that you listed. The article was put up for a VfD; according to the voting so far, not one person has voted to delete the article. So, what risk are we talking about here? You said that a short, factual article will survive a VfD. The version you insist on putting up is rife with mistakes. I've listed them in the Discussion section for the article, which I invite you to actually read, because I have my doubts that you have. I find it hard to believe that the latest version I've submitted is violating the NPOV anymore than the one you are posting. Again, please let me know what the "so on" comment you made earlier may have avered to, and I will adjust the article if need be...

User:ecvjackass

I strongly suggest that you read the Wikipedia policy on 3RR carefully. As for your assumption that, because I mention only one point, that's all I've read, it doesn't bear inspection. I might add that I took it, not from the article, but from your replies to RickK on the Talk page. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 18:46, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * You really should curb this habit of jumping to conclusions. When I say that took a comment from the Talk page, that doesn't imply (either in a logical or in a conversational sense) that I haven't read the article.  Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 20:28, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * 1) I don't repeatedly mention the 3RR policy; I warned you of it, you objected, I responded to your objection.
 * 2) It doesn't, in any case, only apply to "some crank who is vandalising this particular article", but to everyone. If I broke it, I'd be blocked from editing.
 * 3) Mentioning it to a newcomer is generally regarded, by all except the paranoid or perpetually defensive, as good manners. Would you rather I had waited until you'd broken it, and then had you blocked for the violation? Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 21:31, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, you have mentioned it in a rather crude fashion. The first time seemed to be a warning not to edit the article further, when I asked you about what it is you objected to, rather than answer you just ominously referred to the 3RR rule and then added your "paranoid or perpetually defensive" comment. You then threaten to block me; is this what you're not doing already? You will not allow me to make a single edit. Every time I edit, you reverse it. How come? User:ecvjackass

 * 1) A neutral reading of my comments doesn't bear out your odd interpretation (for example, how you get a threat of blocking out of what I wrote is beyond me).
 * 2) The same goes for your long and unsigned message on my Talk page.
 * 3) If you insist on generalising everything that I say instead of simply reading and understanding it, there's little point continuing this discussion. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 08:57, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I notice that you edited my User page. Don't do that, it's regarded as vandalism, and very much frowned on. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 14:39, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I hope you're happy. Your unencyclopedic additions are going to cause the E Clampus Vitus article to be deleted. RickK 05:57, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ecvjackass


text:
Sheila Taormina

Sheila Christine Taormina (born March 18, 1969) is an American former athlete who competed at four Olympics (1996, 2000, 2004, 2008), and was the first woman to qualify for the Olympics in three different sports (swimming, triathlon and modern pentathlon). At the 1996 Summer Olympics, she earned a gold medal as a member of the winning U.S. team in the women's 4×200-meter freestyle relay. She was inducted in 2009 into the USA Triathlon Hall of Fame, and in 2015 into the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame.

Personal life
Born in 1969, Taormina is one of eight children, and is a twin. For a year in 2002-2003 she was subject to stalking resulting in five years' probation for the stalker then, after he violated probation by the continued stalking of Taormina, up to five years in prison.

Swimmer
While swimming for the Georgia Bulldogs swimming and diving team, Taormina earned a Bachelor of Business Administration in 1992 and a Master of Business Administration in 1994 from the University of Georgia (UGA). She captained Georgia's 1991 team, won All-America honors all four years of her collegiate career and won the Southeastern Conference (SEC) title in the 400-meter individual medley as a senior. She was the first UGA swimmer to win an Olympic gold medal and the first UGA athlete to make the Olympic team in multiple sports.

Triathlete
Taormina competed at the first Olympic triathlon at the 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia. She took sixth place with a total time of 2:02:45.91. Her split times were 19:02.78 for the swim, 1:06:24.30 for the cycling, and 0:37:18.83 for the run.

In 2004, Taormina won the ITU Triathlon World Championship title while residing in Clermont, Florida. In the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, she again competed in the triathlon. Her time was 2:09:21.08 as she finished in 23rd place.

Modern pentathlon
After Athens, Taormina embarked on a new sport, the modern pentathlon, winning the women's senior division of the 2005 Pan American Championships. She was successful in qualifying in the modern pentathlon for the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, making her the first female athlete to qualify for the Olympics in three different sports. Taormina finished 19th in the 2008 Olympic event.

Teaching and writing
Taormina has dedicated time to teaching, coaching and conducting seminars around the world and has authored three top-selling guides: Swim Speed Secrets, Swim Speed Workouts, and Swim Speed Strokes.

title: Sheila Taormina


text:
Talk:International Brotherhood of Teamsters

Time inconsistency
In Early History: "The Teamsters were, as an example, at the center of the City Front Federation strike of 1901, in which San Francisco unions engaged in something like a general strike." Other sections say teamsters were founded in 1903, two years later... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.213.165 (talk) 06:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, this page says "founded 1903"; this page, 1899. They can't both be right....  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  10:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There were several national "teamsters" unions prior to 1903. The American Federation of Labor organized the Team Drivers' International Union in 1898, which is when some people date the union's founding to. In 1901, a group of unionized teamsters in Chicago broke away and formed the Teamsters National Union. Since the AFL group allowed employers to join the union (!) and the Chicago group did not, some people date the founding of the union to 1901. In 1903, the AFL asked the two unions to merge with an emerging third teamster union. They did so, and some date the founding of the union to this event.  Further creating confusion is the fact that hundreds of local teamster unions existed as far back as the early 1870s (which is why they could participate in the 1901 San Francisco strike).  Sometimes these local unions belonged to one of the national ones, and sometimes they did not.  I would suggest that the problems you are encountering are less a matter of error than clarity; I haven't read the Hoffa article (which is in extremely poor shape, IMHO) lately, but I suspect that the reference to 1899 is to the local union rather than the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (for example). - Tim1965 (talk) 14:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ♠Either way, it's clearer now than it was. ;D Thanx.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  20:41, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Roadies
What's the difference between a teamster and a roadie? This has always confused me. 81.99.61.55 16:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

כתב מוקטן ==wikidreck== Allow me to be the thousandth person to comment on the high quantity of low quality articles on wikipedia. The current version is another example of shallow and incomplete history larded with at least a half dozen mistakes — quite an accomplishment for an article this short with this many editors looking at it. A list of those I have caught:

 * The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Warehousemen and Helpers of America, commonly known as the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) or simply the Teamsters . ..
 * This is a small point, but the union changed its name to the "International Brotherhood of Teamsters", dropping the "Chauffeurs, Warehousemen and Helpers of America", some years ago. Innocuous, but a bad sign.

 * The United States had no labor laws until the 1935 Wagner Act.
 * This is a sloppy misstatement of historical fact. To the extent that there is a kernel of truth in it—i.e., that there was no national labor law protecting workers' right to organize, strike and engage in collective bargaining prior to the Wagner Act—the proper response is "so what?" The Teamsters organized without the benefit of the law for several decades before 1935 and continued to organize, largely without the assistance of the NLRB, afterwards. This would be a non sequitur if it were attempting to make a point or if it followed another sentence that actually did.

 * The group expanded to include truck-drivers in the 1920s, and grew during the hard times of the Great Depression when it was involved in several militant strikes in the 1930s including the Minneapolis General Strike and was active in the Congress of Industrial Organizations.
 * Active in the CIO? The Trotskyist leadership in Minneapolis flirted with the CIO, but saying that the IBT was active in it is otherwise close to being 100% false.

 * In the 1940s the union, under pressure from the federal government, purged many of its more radical organizers and, like much of the union movement, the IBT became much more conservative in the 1950s, adopting a business unionism model.
 * The suggestion that the IBT only adopted a business union model in the 1950s is likewise wildly wrong. The IBT under Dan Tobin was the model of business unionism; the radical influence of Dobbs, Skoglund and the Dunne brothers, while important to IBT history, was a relatively isolated phenomenon overall.

 * In the next two decades, Hoffa's legal troubles and union ties to organized crime signaled a long period of decline.
 * The prosecution and banning of Hoffa did help push the union into decline, since Hoffa was replaced by incompetents, such as Fitzsimmons, who were even more under the thumb of organized crime. But this sentence is still unsatisfactory. "Signaled" would normally mean that these were symptoms; just how they were signals or symptoms, however, escapes me, particularly since the organized crime connection was there during the union's rise as well. There's some truth here, but it needs reworking to actually be true.
 * And if you want to talk about the union's decline, then deregulation of interstate freight and the blowing up of the NMFA is a much better candidate in terms of cause and effect. While Hoffa's expulsion and murder may have been an essential precondition to those events, more detail is needed here.

 * As a result of a grassroots movement to democratize the union, Ron Carey won control of the IBT in the early 1990s with the support of Teamsters for a Democratic Union . ..
 * No mention of the federal government's lawsuit imposing supervision over the union's day-to-day operations, a fundamental change in the way the union elected leaders, and an ongoing purge of almost all Teamsters with organized crime links. While it is nice to think that all of these changes came about as a result of a grassroots movement, that is not quite true.

 * . . . defeating James P. Hoffa, Jr, the son of Jimmy Hoffa for the presidency of the Teamsters.
 * And Abraham Lincoln defeated George McClelland for the Presidency, but not in 1860. This statement is correct, if you are talking about the second election, but what about the first? If we're talking about "the early 1990s," i.e., 1991, then Hoffa Jr. is not in the running; R.V. Durham and Shea were.

 *  The postal services department by that time had become the largest division in the union.
 * This may sound like nit-picking, but it's not. It's parcel, not postal, and it is very different. I think I detect a British author here; no one in the US would make that mistake.

 * A List of General Presidents that leaves out Roy Williams, Jackie Presser and William McCarthy.
 * Not an error, of course, but all of these individuals played a key role in the decline of the IBT.

Pardon the snarky tone of this comment, but I actually like wikipedia and hate to see it mangled in this fashion. I will contribute a rewrite that gives some detail and corrects the most obvious errors. But if fifty edits left in this many errors and left out this much detail, then I worry about this project's long-term prospects. --Italo Svevo 22:19, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Drek and snarky - goodness. The "k" sounds does give faux words more punch, doesn;t it?
 * This is precisely the sort of topic that wikipedia does worst at: a complex and nuanced issue requiring lots of knowledge, with just enough appearance in everyday knowledge to draw casual editors - as compared to, say, mathematics or modern dance, where only the knowledgeable or the cranky wander. I'm sure your comments are accurate, judging from a quick look at the profession on your User page, and your edits will improve the article greatly.
 * As to whether this article's shape demonstrates the fatal flaw in wikipedia that renders our many hours of labor useless, you may be right. Or you may be wrong. I've been trying to decide that, myself, for 2 1/2 years.... - DavidWBrooks 02:19, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hoffa did not enter prison in 1971, he was pardoned by Nixon in 1971. He entered Lewisberg Federal Prison in March of 1967.
 * See section under Disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa*

Done
This is the overhaul I promised (threatened?). Here's some information that is probably correct, but which I deleted all the same:

Departments
 * Communications Department
 * Office of Corporate Affairs
 * Education Department
 * Government Affairs Department
 * Human Rights Commission
 * Disaster Relief Fund
 * The James R. Hoffa Memorial Scholarship Fund
 * Legal Department
 * Organizing Department
 * Research Department
 * Department for Retiree Affairs
 * Safety and Health Department
 * Office of Strategic Initiatives

Departments
 * Accounting and Budget Department
 * Affiliates Records Department
 * Information Systems Department
 * International Auditors

I don't think that this really adds all that much. --24.126.41.116 08:51, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC) aka User:Italo Svevo

Further pruning
I have eliminated the following links. Some are already in the body of the article, some are of dubious relevance solidarity, some don't exist:

collective bargaining
 * 1930s New Deal
 * National Recovery Administration (NRA)
 * 1935 National Labor Relations Act (the Wagner Act) -
 * NLRB
 * 1947 Taft-Hartley Act
 * 1956 Federal Aid Highway Act
 * 1959 Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA) (the Landrum-Griffin Act)
 * 1970 Organized Crime Control Act

Political Action Committee (PAC)
 * American Federation of Labor (AFL) - Samuel Gompers
 * solidarity, anti-trust law, labor law
 * employment contract, work week, overtime, minimum wage, price controls
 * stock market crash of 1929, World War I, World War II, war bond
 * Canadian Trades and Labour Congress
 * Franklin D. Roosevelt, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan
 * PATCO air traffic controllers union
 * DRIVE (Democrat, Republican, and Independent Voter Education) -
 * National Master Freight Agreement, master agricultural agreement
 * Labor union
 * labor movement

Frontier Hotel and Casino Strike
I did some fact checking and found that the Frontier Hotel strike lasting from 1991 to 1998 was part of Local 226 of Culinary Workers Union (UNITE HERE) not Teamsters. --Ben 18:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

What's a "Local"
I think I can guess from the context, but it would be nice if this article explained how the union is organized with respect to what "locals" are and how they relate to each other and the rest of the union. ---B- 07:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Wikilinked it to the relevant article (local union). The internal structuring of different internationals, frankly, would be a topic for a doctoral thesis, not a Wiki article. -- Orange Mike 13:51, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

It would also be important to include what "lodges" are as well, since the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way uses "lodges" instead of "locals".65.71.93.97 (talk) 23:22, 30 November 2008 (UTC)j.crowson

Restructured a little....
I cut the lead way down in order to present the bare information as an intro, and the rest I either worked back into the chronology of the article or cut out, as it was already there. MSJapan 20:00, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes
This Organization preserved the historic spelling of its official name when it became a Division of the Teamsters Union. Please refrain from trying to "correct" the spelling.

Justus R (talk) 19:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I know, I got that all the time when I was President of BMWED Lodge 2286 (allied federation). Everyone would try to tell me there was 2 "e's" in employees, but thats the way we spell it.65.71.93.97 (talk) 23:20, 30 November 2008 (UTC)J.Crowson

Warning: Lobbyists Berman and Company at work
This article has been edited anonymously by Berman and Company, who are lobbyists for amongst others the American Beverage Institute, the Center for Consumer Freedom, the Center for Union Facts and the Employment Policies Institute.

IP address of 66.208.14.242 traces to Berman and Company, see the Whois report. I Spy With My Big Eye (talk) 10:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Correction to the Teamsters endorsement of Barack Obama
He is not a candidate for the presidential election at this point. He is a candidate for the democratic nomination versus Hillary Clinton. In the event Hillary Clinton wins the nomination, the Teamsters would likely endorse one of the two presidential candidates for the election. When a nominee is selected, this will have to be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.11.251.92 (talk) 06:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The Teamsters for Obama website was launched on April 21st of 2008, according to my union's website (BMWED). Was that before or after the primaries?65.71.93.97 (talk) 23:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)j.Crowson

Tone
Woah... I just read this and got chills. This article reads like "The Lore of the Teamsters" or something similar. I'd go so far as to say it's POV-slanted, but as my knowledge of the teamsters is somewhat limited, I don't consider myself qualified to make that determination. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 17:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

 * When reading about a union in an article that does not have the anti-union animus that is taught in schools of economics and journalism, it may take some time to become accustomed to an article written with NPOV. Enjoy! Justus R (talk) 02:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I'll concede that it may not be POV-slanted. I still feel the tone in which many of the paragraphs are written do not convey an appropriate encyclopedic tone, and read more like, as implied before, a storybook. An excerpt:"Beck used different tactics, on the other hand, to organize the independent owner-operators who hauled much of the agricultural produce from California farms; the union simply pulled the drivers out of their cabs and signed them up."The phrase, "the union simply pulled the drivers out of their cabs and signed them up" strikes me as doublespeak- were these drivers willingly asked to sign up, or were they compelled to join? This isn't clear, and leaves it up to the reader's preconceptions of the Teamsters. Another excerpt:"In many cases organized crime played an even more direct role. Hoffa depended on the support of a number of 'paper locals' from New York established by Johnny Dioguardi, an associate of the Lucchese crime family, in running for the presidency of the Teamsters in 1957."The definition of a "paper local" is not established anywhere else in the article. My best guess is that it refers to a "local" that is "on paper only", thus it is not a "local" at all. But this sort of jargon should be explained. I hope this helps. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 05:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Meaning / origin of the word "teamster"
some background information on why they are called teamsters, what a teamster is, would be useful 84.9.125.170 (talk) 00:25, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The wikilink to teamster (lowercase) the profession is in the first sentence of the "History" section. -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  03:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Local color
There's a lot of refs to Teamsters Locals as if the reader knows what & where they are. I suggest 1) more detail explaining it & (if possible) 2) a comprehensive list of Locals with their locations. TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  11:00, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I respectfully disagree. This article is already getting too long.  Little is being done to really improve this article right now, but I suggest that if more detail is added then it'd be time to break the Teamster history section off on its own.  I think a list of locals would be great. There are problems, though...there are more than 500 such local unions!  Lists, like articles, need inline citations, and at least 1,500 characters of accompanying text.  The problems are not insurmountable, though, and I look forward to the list you or anyone else generates! - Tim1965 (talk) 14:27, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ♥No argument on splitting the history off. And I know so little about this, I wouldn't even know where to look for sources to begin a list (one reason I suggested it ;p).  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  20:43, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

topic sentences?
Very little effort put into producing topic sentences which would ideally inform the reader of what the rest of the paragraph is really about.

UPS 1997 strike in the list of strikes within two years of WWII?
WWII ended in 1945 so a 1997 strike doesn't belong in this list:

 * In the two years following the cessation of hostilities, the Teamsters struck only three times: 10,000 truckers in New Jersey struck for two weeks; workers at UPS struck nationwide for three weeks during the United Parcel Service strike of 1997;

Can somebody who knows the subject fix this up? Thanks!

Atomota (talk) 01:37, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

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Battles of the Teamsters
Nothing in here (of any note) about Teamsters Local 399 (for example) and their battles with (management) the Hollywood studios, where the (Employers) studios want to rid themselves of restrictive practises by the Union. --BeckenhamBear (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Rise Against

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 * Failed, archive is 404 error page. -- ferret (talk) 20:18, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Lead image
Hey look, a new section that isn't about the band's genre!

Anyway, after working on a couple of Rise Against song articles, I figured it was finally time to work on and update the actual band article. One of the first thing's I'd like to update is the lead image. Not only is it from 2006, but it also only shows McIlrath (besides, if we wanted a better picture of McIlrath performing, there are plenty of newer and better images, like from 2015). For a possible lead image, I was thinking either from 2014, or  from 2012. Unfortunately, neither image has all four members in clear focus. If I had to pick, I probably choose the latter of the two, since it has three of the members in clear focus side by side. However, since this article is still at GA status, I don't think one can just simply change the lead image at will, without a clear consensus from other editors. Famous Hobo (talk) 06:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Well said – I'm glad someone's actually changed the focus from the genre as well. You bring up some good images, and I have no problem with switching to the 2012 one, seeing as it's more inclusive (interesting that it's on the discography page and not here). We can always throw in the other ones to the career section as well if it needs some newer images, or to replace others.  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  07:01, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I prefer the 2012 one as well. At least there's 3 people upfront in that one... Sergecross73   msg me  15:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Dan Lumley
So I probably could have also lumped this into the image section, but oh well.

I started working on the first paragraph, but I'm running into problem with the inclusion of Dan Lumley. He was only a member for a very short time, but unfortunately I can't find any good references for his inclusion. The only reference I could find was this on (in the squirtgun section), but that's it. Since he was a member, but it's not quite clear when he was a member, what do you think the first paragraph should say? Famous Hobo (talk) 15:46, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

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The Sun Times and AltSounds references are still defective. All others work.  danny music editor  Speak up! 03:09, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

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Should we include reviews from music critics in the history section?
Pretty much the title of this subsection. Should we include the reviews? From the looks of it, most rock band related articles include reviews of albums, but some, like the recently promoted Fall Out Boy, do not include reviews. I'm fine with including reviews, but I'd like other people's opinions on this.

 * Speaking as nominator of Fall Out Boy. I mean, I left them there because they looked good and I wanted to wait for GA opinion on it. He had absolutely no problem with it. As long as you don't go overboard on them, I have no opposition to having them on this article, but do be careful.  danny music editor  Speak up! 23:48, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * I see no problem with it, as long as its done 1) briefly/sparingly 2) with a highly reliable/mainstream source that 3) does a good job it getting representing the general consensus of the work's reception. Sergecross73   msg me  14:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

melodic hardcore band or punk rock band
Why does the lead say that Rise Against is a melodic hardcore band? There are many songs by Rise Against that are NOT melodic hardcore and are instead hardcore punk or normal punk. Statik N (talk) 01:15, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Oh boy, here we go again...  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  01:28, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * There were extensive discussions on it. Check the talk pages. The maintainers of the article are...rather tired of genre warring on this page, FYI. Sergecross73   msg me  01:30, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

 * This has been a long-running argument that has basically resulted in no change whatsoever – you are going to need a ton of reliable sources if you want the genre in the lead to change from melodic hardcore, particularly as the other genres are already listed in the infobox. It should be quite self-explanatory, really.  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  01:32, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I'm not trying to genre war. I decided to discuss here instead of going and changing it without discussing. Melodic hardcore is a subgenre of punk rock. But I'll check the other discussions. Statik N (talk) 18:03, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Please note the same thing we've had to tell the past genre warrior over and over again - both genre are used prominently in the article. They're both mentioned in the infobox. They're most mentioned in the musical styles section. We merely had to choose one for the opening sentence. If you chose to actually read the article, you'll see they're both covered prominently otherwise. Sergecross73   msg me  18:39, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

All these genres root back to punk rock. (You could also make the argument that it goes even further back to simply rock, but why go that far when that's the highest common genre of all the ones listed?) If I were the only one who was up for defending the main genre, I would not have a problem with people changing that in the opening sentence, but it's not really up to me. The fact is that the lead genre is melodic hardcore because it has three sources, while the others have less. I'm on a neutral standpoint at changing anything. I just think Statik was a little unaware about how much genre push had gone on here already.  danny music editor  Speak up! 19:02, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The archived discussions mentioned at least 10 sources for variants of hardcore, FYI. Sergecross73   msg me  19:13, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Okay, even better evidence.  danny music editor  Speak up! 20:56, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

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A book about the history of Rise Against will come out on November 30
While I am the primary contributor to Rise Against articles, I know that this page is watched a large number of editors, so I figured you guys might want to know about this upcoming book. The band’s Facebook page says it has exclusive pictures and an oral history of the band. It’s part of a boxset, so as of right now, that would be the only way of getting it. Cheapest box set is listed at $180, so unless you love this band, it might be best to wait and see if the book will eventually be sold separately (or if the book even has new info not featured on the wiki page). Famous Hobo (talk) 16:06, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Early Years
The first couple sentences are a bit confusing. The band was formed in 1999 but they broke up on two occasions in the late 1990s? So they broke up twice within less than a year? Seems like the author of the text wants to convey that there was a version of the band before 1999, no? a.buchhorn (talk) 15:32, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

 * I'm pretty certain that sentence is referring to 88 Fingers Louie, as they were mentioned in the previous sentence and it says "this band" rather than "the band" which would imply its the band the page is about. Issan Sumisu (talk) 15:41, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

 * I must have been drunk when I last read it. It makes much more sense now. Thank you. a.buchhorn (talk) 20:58, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

"Mr. Precision" listed at Redirects for discussion
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"Rise Against(band)" listed at Redirects for discussion
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title: Talk:Rise Against