text:
Talk:Guy Davenport

Here we go again: Re-appearance here of disputed OR and NPOV plot summaries by one editor who insists that the world see Davenport as a writer of fiction about pedophilia and child sexual abuse
I'm weary. Please see Discussion ("Talk") page associated with the APPLES AND PEARS entry -- if that page can be accessed, once Tony deletes it.

After months of discussion, his OR summaries of "Apples and Pears" were deleted.

Now he brings them back here, along with others from other disputed pages.

I can't imagine going through all this again, but it appears that we will have to. SocJan 22:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

A second thought: So as not to lose the A + P discussion, which is likely to be highly relevant here soon, I have imported it to this page (see above). SocJan 05:34, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I believe that talk pages do remain after pages are deleted. --Neon white 16:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks; good to know. Let's leave the A + P discussion here at least until we resolve what to do with Tony's A + P "plot summary". SocJan 02:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Maybe put on OR tag on that section? --Neon white 02:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I have left the OR warning at the top of the entire article, and added OR and POV tags to the individual book sections that are in dispute.  The rest of the article is in pretty good shape.

 * Incidentally, I followed the links to the references cited in the Cardiff Team section and recommend that other interested parties do the same, and decide for yourselves whether the excerpts quoted here are representative, or not, of the articles from which they are taken.

 * I hope we can take action on these inappropriate OR and POV book summaries by next weekend (Nov.12, 2007). SocJan 04:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * ok, 19 (dalkeyarchive.com) is fine, the other are not proper citations one of the them, reed business, is a communications company and has no obvious link to the book. I'll removed the ones that aren't cited properly until they are. --Neon white 16:32, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Nine days having passed without any third-party defense of the recent posting to this page of OR/POV summaries of three collections of Davenport's fiction, I have deleted those summaries. I agree that a balanced discussion of the role that child sexuality plays in Davenport's fictions would be useful. I hope someone can write one, based on reputable published criticism (the references given on the Davenport page include several possible sources). Please let's have no more original summaries of these fictions by editors with an axe to grind. SocJan 05:05, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Bologna
I doubt this is the most, or only, fact about him in Davenport's book. I really dont think this fact about his eating fried bologna with campbells soup is notable, in light of who he was. if julia child did this in public, yes. if davenport advocated this in his book as the perfect diet, and it was the source of one of his works (say, a book on bologna, a poem on bologna, or even if its the source of the book its taken from: davenport tries this food, decides to write about food, and credits this event a la proust in remembrance of things past vis a vis madeleines), yes. Its interesting and quirky, but thats all. please provide some context for adding this back if you do so. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 19:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A previous discussion on this topic can be found at Talk:Guy Davenport/Archive June 05 - May 07 Personally, I tend to think (as my contribution to that discussion may suggest) that the detail is too insignificant for inclusion in the article; one gets weary of attempting to deal with the one or two editors who want to establish their ownership of this article, though. Deor (talk) 21:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Aww, let's have a big flame war about it! It'll be just like old times! SethTisue (talk) 02:53, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * sometimes the bizarre behaviors of editors here amazes me. why cant the silly phrase be put into a better context? it seems to just get added back repeatedly with no modification at all. i dont have the book where this comment appears, but if someone does, how about CHANGING the wording of the sentence to make it encyclopedic? heres an example: "While primarily known as scholar and essayist of serious subjects, Davenport was known for taking a contrarian position on some issues. For example, he admitted to eating fried bologna with canned soup regularly, and wrote about this habit in his essay collection **, which included incongruous and bizarre, but researched, comments on other notable author's eating habits. He admitted to enjoying this apparent contradiction between his reputation as a member of the intelligentsia and his lower class diet." of course this would need references. BTW, while i think most bologna is disgusting (nitrates, etc) i do fry up any deli meats i get to improve the flavor. Campbells soup, however, is worthless. i believe Anthony Braxton is noted for eating fried bologna. and davenports collection of aphorisms from diogenes and heraklitos is one of my all time favorite books. I am a fan of him and a fan of eclectic and bizarre information. i just want the sentence to be encyclopedic, im not interested in an edit war, and i wont revert again. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 16:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Guys! I hadn't noticed this discussion before tonight.  Since I'm the latest reverter on this one, let me provide a little context.

 * The poet Ronald Johnson who was also a celebrated author of regional cookbooks was one of Davenport's close friends.  Johnson stayed with Davenport for weeks, and cooked, and Davenport reported appreciatively that he had never eaten better.  However, Davenport was also a staunch opponent of oppressive regimentations of all sorts, including what he called "food snobbery".

 * One of Davenport's least known essays appears in JUNK FOOD (1980, Dell Publishing Co, New York; ed. by Charles J. Rubin. ISBN #: 0440-54276-6, p.47; other contributors include Harry Crews, Bruce McCall, R. O. Blechman, and Stephen Jay Gould).

 * Davenport's title -- "A Moral Lecture for Food Snobs, Gourmets, Epicures, Health Food Nuts, Gourmands, and People Who Pick On Their Children for Gulping Rock & Roll Jelly Kings" -- gives a pretty good idea of where he stood. His essay is very short, paralyzingly funny, and stuffed with bizarre facts about famous people's eating habits -- but says nothing about his own.

 * When the former Davenport students who did most of the work on this entry in Wikipedia included the sentence we are discussing, I found it appropriate, amusing, and important. I was confident that Davenport would have approved. It serves to remind readers who do not know Davenport's oeuvre that even erudite polymaths can have foibles -- and, in Davenport's case,  can have a sense of humor about their foibles.  That's why I have defended it.

 * Granted that encyclopedia entries should be factual and should include matters of significance, surely we can acknowledge that not all facts in every entry require ponderous explanations. Readers may well find this particular sentence amusing and/or puzzling; we could hope that some might be curious enough to do a little independent spade work (such as seeking out and reading the material on this comments page).

 * Surely it is not bad for an encyclopedia to include the occasional short, sweet, enigmatic comment, to amuse -- and perhaps motivate the occasional reader to seek more information? SocJan (talk) 05:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, its actually quite bad to do this, davenport would probably not have approved of this (unless he hated reference books), and your stating that this one of his least known essays shows it doesnt belong in the article. nothing you have said here makes the specific case for this sentence to be in this article. if we want to motivate a reader to explore davenports work, there are many other NPOV ways to do so. a one sentence quote from an essay, a quote from a review by a major figure, which refers to his eccentric and entertaining style. WP is not in the business of recommending authors. I dont want a reader of this article to feel like ive put my arm around his shoulder, escorted him into my library, and said "oh, you simply MUST read davenports essays on food, they are perfect examples of how a highly cultured, literate critic can be down to earth. please, borrow it as long as you like. and when youre done, come back and sit down with me over some bologna, soup and a bud light, and we will wax rhapsodic about the man!" it takes away from the power of the encyclopedia to have the author of the article (you and i) inject our passions into the article itself. our passion should be in the craft of the article, not the advocacy of the subject. but again, im not interested in deleting the line, just in trying to stimulate some more creative approaches to documenting this writer that are NPOV. wait, did you say that former students of davenport included this statement? how POV can you get? come on, call a spade a spade, admit bias. for my part, i admit that im probably overly incensed by this, and i apologize for any apparent personal slights. but i am really really really willing to go along with ANY inclusions that document his style, along the lines of what i have suggested. peace, Mercurywoodrose (talk) 01:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

 * (1) All evidence suggests that Davenport loved reference books -- especially ones with a touch of style.  And he was a stickler for accuracy; indeed, he wrote several essays documenting foolish (and one would have thought easily-avoidable) errors in highly-respected reference books.   But he also loved odd facts, sometimes finding convincing significance in apparently minor details that others had overlooked.

 * One of his interests was eating customs -- so it's his "passion" (your word), not that of any editor of this entry. The sentence in question alerts a reader to that thread in Davenport's work -- if the reader is Davenportian enough to wish to go there.  The sentence also points to Davenport's anti-authoritarian stance in general, his habit of challenging conventions that he found pretentious or oppressive.

 * (2) The present version of the Davenport Wikipedia entry strikes me as superior to those that most encyclopedias manage even a decade after the death of an important if lesser-known author. Its accuracy, concision, and balance I attribute in large part to weeks of revision by several people who knew Davenport personally and also are excellent and scrupulous scholars.  Why would their efforts be a bad thing?  What is POV about former students contributing facts to an encyclopedic entry about their professor?   Do you believe it impossible for someone who happens to have studied under a particular figure to contribute to an encyclopedia entry about him or her?

 * Note that the Davenport entry in its current form absolutely does NOT take the reader by the arm and twist it. Your proposed elaboration (back there a bit) in place of the simple sentence to which you have objected would do just what you now say should not be done.

 * (3) Is it obvious that an essay that happens not to have been collected is automatically inferior? Davenport wrote so many essays, book reviews, and other short pieces that dozens are little known.  I cited the one in JUNK FOOD because Davenport does there, to others, what the sentence in question does here to Davenport.  A nice little symmetry.  A touch of style.  Must every sentence in every encyclopedia entry be pedantic and pedestrian?  The authors of the 11th edition of the Britannica didn't think so, and we still read and enjoy their entries today, a century later.

 * (4) Does NPOV mean to you what it means to Wikipedia? I can't quite follow your suggestion that the sentence in question somehow violates the NPOV injunction.   It's true, it's economical, and it adds to our understanding of Davenport's habits of mind and style of life.

 * I do appreciate your willingness to tolerate a tiny bit of serious humor in this essay. I didn't write that sentence.  But from reading Davenport I happened to know it to be true; the instant I first read it, I felt it added something useful.  So I have defended it.  But I, too, have no intention of falling on my sword over it.   Someday someone will delete it and we, its defenders, will all be gone.  That's probably the fate of every sentence in Wikipedia.

 * The only thing we might continue to discuss is how the Wikipedia NPOV injunction relates to the legitimacy of contributions from people who actually know something.

 * I would hope that we would welcome help from anyone willing to do spadework, back up each contribution with appropriate, recognized, references, and defend the significance of each contribution on a talk page like this, if need be.  I thought that was what Wikipedia was all about. SocJan (talk) 06:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I admit now that im simply confused and doubtful of my ability to understand the process here, and would like to politely bow out of any discussion of this article. thanks for the chance to work here. goodbye. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 21:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 16:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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 * Just read history. It is amazing. I am a proud survivor of paternal incest. 67.83.136.95 (talk) 01:10, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I need to read more to determine if his writing is sexual abuse. 67.83.136.95 (talk) 01:12, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Guy Davenport


text:
Office of Public and Indian Housing

The Office of Public and Indian Housing (PIH) is an agency of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Its mission is to ensure safe, decent, and affordable housing, create opportunities for residents' self-sufficiency and economic independence, and assure the fiscal integrity of all program participants.

The Office is headed by a senate-confirmed Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public and Indian Housing. Since the resignation of Hunter Kurtz on January 11, 2021, the office has been led by the Senior Official, General Deputy Assistant Secretary Dominique Blom.

Background
PIH is responsible for administering and managing a range of programs authorized and funded by Congress under the basic provisions of the U.S. Housing Act of 1937. This act was created to provide affordable housing to well over a million households nationwide. This act actually created the Public and Indian Housing program as well.

The United States Congress dictated for funds to be dedicated not only for the development of additional public and Indian housing units, but also for the modernization of the housing stock, the improvement of the management of the programs by the public and Indian housing authorities which own the housing, and for programs to address crime and security and provide supportive services and tenant opportunities. The programs are administered by the:

 * Office of Community Relations and Involvement
 * Office of Public and Assisted Housing Operations (including the housing choice voucher tenant based rental assistance program)
 * Office of Public Housing Investments
 * Office of Policy, Program and Legislative Initiatives

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Office of Public and Indian Housing


text:
Talk:Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Esztergom–Budapest

Unique?
"This Hungarian archdiocese is a unique one in the sense that it represents two cities, Esztergom and Budapest." -- This sentence is true in the sense that it is indeed the only archdiocese that represents "two cities, Esztergom and Budapest." But it's not true if the author wanted to say it's the only archdiocese representing two cities. What about the Archdiocese of Kalocsa-Kecskemét? Alensha 21:35, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Double-city dioceses are uncommon. Maybe another word instead of 'unique'?

It seems in Hungary they aren't that uncommon (Archdiocese of Kalocsa-Kecskemét, Archdiocese of Esztergom-Budapest, Diocese of Debrecen-Nyíregyháza, Diocese of Szeged-Csanád, and even the Archdiocese of Eger should be called Eger-Miskolc...) I'll try to find a more suitable word :) Alensha 22:00, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Abbotsbury

Comments
Since I was brought up just a few miles aay, I was surprised to see the chapel I had always known as St. Catherine's referred to as St. Cathrene's I assume was a typo, especially since the section heading had a similar error ( "...Intrest" for "...Interest" )

BTW St. Catherine's chapel is clearly visible in the centre of the view used in the article about the Chesil Beach

mwp

Abbotsbury is not made up "entirely of old stone cottages, many of them thatched". There are several new build stone cottages, and at least one 1930s townhouse (as of May 2006). The impression of the village created by looking down Rodden Row is a little midleading, although it is certainly an attractive village overall. Cravenmonket 07:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The link for King Canute's aide, Orca, directs to a page about, umm, orca... While I think Killer Whales are lovely and intelligent, I'm not convinced that one established a community in south Dorset in the 11th Century. Also, disambiguation is not helpful for this link, since there is no Orca (the person) article. Removed the link. Cravenmonket 07:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

File:Abbotsbury, Dorset, UK - May 2012.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Abbotsbury, Dorset, UK - May 2012.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on September 29, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-09-29. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:29, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Abbotsbury


text: File:Certificate book.jpg

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text:
User:Zantastik/Orange Mound notes

Notes for the upcoming Orange Mound article

Web-based sources

 * Commercial Development Potential In the Orange Mound Neighborhood -- a study done at the University of Memphis.

 * Orange Mound Community Garden Project
 * Memphis Flyer interview with Alcene Arnette (an elderly resident) and others about the neighborhood and the community garden

 * Orange Mound Collaborative - neighborhood association website
 * Orange Mound Connection - the Orange Mound Collaborative newsletter (all the articles listed online appear to be about 5 years old)

Books

 * Education and community assessment, Orange Mound neighborhood, Memphis, TN. Elmer Dean Butler and Carol P. Etheridge. University of Memphis. 1993.
 * An early history of Orange Mound Day Nursery Marian Brown ; edited by Barbara Turner. Memphis, Tenn. 1992.

Perodicals

 * Orange Mound Connection(at main library)
 * Memphis Press Scimitar
 * Tri-State Defender
 * Commercial Appeal

Articles
October, 1993. Yacoubian Research. Collaborative.
 * Neighborhood & Family Initiative Survey: The Orange Mound Neighborhood, Memphis, TN.
 * The Neighborhood & Family Initiative: Orange Mound Perceptions. 1993. The Orange Mound
 * Oral History Project is Open Mike for Voices of Experience. Pamela Perkins. August 12, 1999. The Commercial Appeal
 * Orange Mound 'A special place' and how it came to be. Tri-State Defender. Arthur L. Webb. December 31, 2003.

Interviews
to complete

Possible candidates

 * Tyler Glover `The Mayor of Orange Mound.'

Places to visit

 * Orange Mound Community Service Center
 * Orange Mound Park
 * Orange Mound Grill
 * Orange Mound Development Center -- 989 Tunstall Street Memphis, TN 38114 (E-mail: omdevcorp@aol.com)
 * Orange Mound Neighborhood Association
 * Area churches
 * Deadrick cemetary

General Notes
"Orange Mound was named such b/c there was an abundance of Osage Orange trees in the area when it was still rural. I had many Italian relatives who lived and farmed there about 80 years ago." -- verify this.

 * Formally Deadrick Plantation (1000 slaves lived there, many residents descend from them)

 * Google Search for "Orange Mound -- to finish examining

Music

 * Orange Mound Community Choir
 * Orange Mound Records - the website if of little use, though
 * 8 Ball and MJG - well-known rap group from the area
 * DJ Zirk - DJ, producer, rapper

Notable Residents

 * Larry Finch - former basketball player and University of Memphis head coach

title: User:Zantastik/Orange Mound notes


text:
Your Favorite Weapon

Your Favorite Weapon is the debut studio album by American rock band Brand New, released in 2001. Recorded and released a year after the band's formation, the album consists of pop punk songs about the highs and lows of teenage life. Your Favorite Weapon received positive reviews from critics and sold over 315,000 copies.

Background
Vocalist/guitarist Jesse Lacey, bassist Garrett Tierney and drummer Brian Lane played in a band called The Rookie Lot with Brandon Reilly before the band eventually broke up. After a period of inactivity between Lacey, Tierney and Lane, the trio formed Brand New in Long Island, New York, in 2000. The name came from Lane and Reilly. Reilly went on to play in The Movielife. Shortly afterwards, Brand New acquired guitarist Vincent Accardi, who had previously played in One Last Goodbye. The band self-released a demo and started gaining attention outside of their home state after touring with Midtown and Glassjaw. Lane had a job working at a recording studio which the band would use to record material.

The band signed to Triple Crown after their second-ever show. Fred from Triple Crown was initially interested in hardcore band Home Town Hero, a band that featured Tierney and Lane, but by the time Fred contacted Lane, Home Town Hero had been broken-up for six months. Instead, Brand New sent Fred their demo. Lacey said the label was "excellent" for the band "in every way".

Composition and recording
Your Favorite Weapon, Brand New's debut studio album, was recorded in 2001. The album consists largely of power chord-heavy pop punk songs. The lyrics detail the highs and lows of teenage relationships and experiences and were described as being "bitter about ex-girlfriends" with a concentration on "post-breakup angst". Asked about his influences, Lacey cited Lifetime, Foo Fighters, The Cars and The Smiths. The band listened to several bands while in their van, such as Saves the Day, Modest Mouse and Green Day. All of the songs on the album were written, according to Accardi, "within our whole teenage years. Some songs were written two or three years before the record came out."

"The Shower Scene" references actress Janet Leigh's story in the film Psycho. The title of "Jude Law and a Semester Abroad" references actor Jude Law. "Failure by Design" is about Lacey experiencing writer's block. "Seventy Times 7" was written about a feud between Lacey and Taking Back Sunday guitarist John Nolan. Nolan wrote about the feud from his point of view in Taking Back Sunday's "There's No 'I' in Team". The name of the song is a reference to a Bible passage, specifically Matthew 18:22. "Soco Amaretto Lime" was written for Lacey's friend Peter and about Lacey's girlfriend. Peter saw the band "the way we [...] have changed in the last couple years." People were giving Lacey's girlfriend "shit for wanting to be with me. [...] they were being spiteful, and old, and envious. [...] That's where the last lines in the song came from."

Your Favorite Weapon was produced by Mike Sapone, a friend of the band. The whole album was re-recorded when the original recording was lost on a computer's hard drive. All of the songs on the band's demo were re-recorded for the album. The band later admitted that they did not like the overall sound of the album.

Original release and touring
Your Favorite Weapon was released through Triple Crown on October 9, 2001. Between late October and late November, Brand New toured the U.S. with support from The Reunion Show. In January and February 2002, they toured the U.S. with support from Further Seems Forever, Recover and Hot Rod Circuit. The band then went on a spring tour in May and early June with Finch, The Starting Line and Autopilot Off. The band went on a short tour with Dashboard Confessional in early June. In June, the band was supported by Thrice and Recover. In late June, Iodine Recordings released Your Favorite Weapon on vinyl along with an extra track, "...My Nine Rides Shotgun". A music video for "Jude Law and a Semester Abroad" was released through Much Music in July. It was filmed at Skate and Surf Festival. The band went on a summer tour with Taking Back Sunday and Rufio. In September, it was announced the band had re-recorded "Jude Law and a Semester Abroad" for a potential release to radio.

Brand New supported Face to Face for a week's worth of shows between late September and early October. The band then toured with The Movielife between mid October and early December, with support from The Reunion Show and Orange Island. In November, the band released the re-recorded version of "Jude Law and a Semester Abroad" on MP3.com. The album was released in the UK on March 10, 2003, through Eat Sleep. Also in March, the band went on a tour of the UK with Finch. Between late April and early May, the band toured the U.S. with support by A Static Lullaby and Orange Island. Hot Rod Circuit was originally announced to support the band, before being replaced by The Early November. The band ended the touring cycle with a show in New York to a crowd of 5,000 people. "Jude Law and a Semester Abroad" was released as a single in the UK on June 2.

Reissues and legacy
On February 9, 2004, the album was released in Australia through Below Par. With the success of Brand New's second album, Deja Entendu (2003), Razor & Tie reissued Your Favorite Weapon on April 22. The album was reissued in Australia through Cortex on May 5, 2007. Triple Crown hosted a 10th anniversary show of the label in December 2007. At this show, the band played the album in full, with the exception of "Seventy Times 7" which was played as the encore; "Moshi Moshi" was played in its place. On November 29, 2011, Razor & Tie released a 10th anniversary edition of the album, with seven demos as bonus tracks and new cover art. The new cover art was taken by Derrick Sherman. A vinyl release followed on December 13. The band played the album in full again for New Year's Eve in 2011. Over time, as Brand New's sound changed drastically, many songs from Your Favorite Weapon were phased out of their live shows. A 2004 interview with Kerrang! described the band as feeling "somewhat ashamed" of the album.

Reception
Your Favorite Weapon found "cult-like success", according to CMJ New Music Monthly. By July 2003, the album had sold 50,000 copies. Prior to the 2011 reissue, the album had sold over 315,000 copies. It received positive reviews from critics. The album was included at number 15 on Rock Sound's "The 51 Most Essential Pop Punk Albums of All Time" list. In 2013, BuzzFeed ranked it at number 6 on their "36 Pop Punk Albums You Need To Hear Before You F——ing Die" list. In 2014, NME listed the album as one of "20 Pop Punk Albums Which Will Make You Nostalgic". "Soco Amaretto Lime" was included on Alternative Press's "11 Classic Summer Jams" list in 2014. Rolling Stone ranked the album at number 29 on their 2019 list of the "40 Greatest Emo Albums of All Time".

Track listing

 * Bonus tracks

Personnel

 * Jesse Lacey – vocals, rhythm guitar
 * Vincent Accardi – lead guitar, backing vocals
 * Garrett Tierney – bass
 * Brian Lane – drums, percussion

title: Your Favorite Weapon


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andrew Krystal

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD 01:39, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Andrew Krystal
This brief article is a vanity page. DDerby 21:37, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Halidecyphon 21:47, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable Dsmdgold 22:45, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, irrelevant.
 * Baleete, because I said so. Asriel86 05:53, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Peer review/Grunge music/archive1

Grunge music
After weeks of work, I think I have this one ready to be a featured article. Still, I'd like to make sure beforehand that we've got everything covered and that there's no issues in the way. -- LGagnon 21:37, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Any chance of a sound bite? Mgm|(talk) 09:00, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think some of the band articles have some. I'll look around and see what I can dig up. -- LGagnon 13:33, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Make sure copyright is cleared and all. Mgm|(talk) 09:38, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by that? -- LGagnon 18:07, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * I assume he means with any sound bite you may use. BLANKFAZE | (что??) 19:54, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This is just a suggestion, but you could turn the prominent bands list into a table, listing band (mabye band members too), where they're from, whether they are sill a band (many grunge bands aren't together anymore) and breakthrough album (bad name but I think you'll understand that I mean). There could also be a bit more about grunge and Riot grrrl, they are quite closely linked (at least in my mind)--nixie 04:37, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Criminal record

Phony information
Brazil identity card DOES NOT contain any information regarding a person criminal background, it's completely untrue and in the article it gone uncited and unverified.

Terrible article.

1) Implies official rap (record of arrests and prosecution) sheets are inaccurate and not admissible in court for that reason. I suspect the confusion comes from dealing with commercial "private eye" sources on the internet. Those ghastly Hodge podge assemblies by private companies are NOT really rap sheets but simply dumps of internet data searches of names and locations. I would not be surprised at extensive arrest contamination from people with similar names as their bots walk the public Internet because other identifying information is omitted from fully public records.

1a) Official rap sheets are compiled with complete access to identity information such as social security numbers and FBI fingerprint database identifiers etc. Its possible for identity thieves to put traffic tickets etc against your name if the drivers license passes. But DLs are increasingly being scanned for matching photo info. In any case charges resulting in jail stays usually mean fingerprints which stops identity theft. Official rap sheets are purely for assisting police in sorting out most likely suspects and  district attorneys in deciding what sort of plead bargains to make when evidence is good.

1b) Prior arrests or convictions are not admissible in criminal court except for sentencing or special charges such as racketing where the crime itself is about being a career criminal. Otherwise US courts treat prior crimes as irrelevant to new charges and potentially distracting from actual evidence and testimony. Evidence rules are pretty much out the window at sentencing time in most states so yeah rap sheets may well be examined. But you have a really bad defense attorney if your rap sheets are allowed in a normal criminal trial before conviction (almost like you begged for it).

2) Says official rap sheets are not available to public. Wrong. There is no reason to withhold Rap sheet as it has all been published in newspapers before. But it is true that some3 police may be suspicious, busy and otherwise reluctant to provide that info. If so file a Freedom of Information Act sheet.

2a) However Rap sheets viewed by LEOs are often supplemented by additional separate attached info (not properly part of rap sheets) and notes that may not be open to public view. This may include open cases where they are suspects or evaluations of personality or likely concealed weapons or habits or martial arts/combat skills. Basically warnings to keep cops alive and to help make successful arrests. If notes are federal files it may be classified or otherwise declared inaccessible to FOIA with Congressional or Court signoff. Other notes maybe purely local and not obtainable at state or federal level via FOIA request to those levels. In any case this more detailed info while of interest to LEOs is NOT part of the rap sheet which is limited to Record of Arrests and Prosecution.

There really is not any question of accuracy or public access although courts may purge certain information after request. Court records for adults are public records and normally do not require freedom of information requests except for details of crimes involving national security. Results of prosecutions are drawn from public court records. Prosecutors or LEOs in the US publish arrests in newspaper records (though details may be left out especially for ongoing investigations and privacy of victims etc). Rap sheets are usually purged of juvenile offenses once majority is achieved either by specific request to state courts or automatically in some states. Judges may also sometimes purge shoddy arrests for adults particularly where LEOs are at high risk of lawsuits for false arrest. Further juvenile arrest records which do not result in prosecution before juries are often limited to the local courts or judge with actual jurisdiction. Juvenile prosecutions (successful or not) are normally purged when juveniles become adults...unless sentences last into adult years (very severe sentences). 70.114.136.69 (talk) 05:41, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Untitled
It may be incorrect that the "rap" in rap sheet comes from Record of Arrest and Prosecution. The word "rap" went from an imitation of the sound of a sharp blow, to a sharp knock, to a figurative meaning of "sharp criticism. But as early as the 18th century "rap" was used by thieves and law enforcement officials to mean a criminal charge or punishment.  By the 20th century it had made it into everyday speech, as in "beat the rap," "bum rap" and "take the rap."  "Rap sheet" probably reflects this use of rap.  See OED and Word Detective for sources.  Lawmom1954 16:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

This article is not factually correct. For example, criminal records in Texas are permanent. Court records in Wisconsin are freely viewable and searchable regardless of disposition. 165.91.166.186 21:38, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree that this article is inaccurate - it states that "only those who have been convicted of a crime may be accurately described as having a "criminal record", which is not correct in so far as the UK is concerned - see Police National Computer. lmno 12:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually it is accurate as far as the UK is concerned. It is true that arrests without conviction do go on the Police National Computer, but so do a lot of other things (e.g. being reported as a missing person). PNC records are NOT "criminal records", and should not be described as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.241.199.124 (talk) 13:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not accurate in the United States either. I'm going to take some time to put in information about the Police National Computer and the CPIC in Canada. BlueGoose 03:20, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Does blacklist really apply to criminal records? 70.191.174.29 12:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I completely rewrote the first half of the article to add a more detailed explination of what a rap sheet is. I also deleted the Controversy and Alternatives sections because they are not relevant to describing what a rap sheet is. The Controversy section talked about background checks, not rap sheets; and the Alternatives section talked about what people who fail background checks can do for other employment. None of those are directly relevant to the topic of compiled criminal histories. I also expanded a great deal on Triple-I's, and edited references to police officers. A better term is Law Enforcement Agency, since cops aren't the only ones who use rap sheets. Prosecutors, Sheriff's deputies, corrections officers, and others use them on a daily basis. I relied entirely on my own personal experiences with Triple-I's, state, and local rap sheets for the article. I will try to add references as soon as I can find them. The NLETS website does provide a good deal of info, too. --68.105.50.50 04:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

CriminalWatchdog.com has been repeatedly adding a link to their commercial site at the top of external links. This page gets a prominent place in Google and thus is likely to be attractive to spammers. Eschulma 14:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Articles from a Private Investigator
- This article has interesting information pertaining to this topic. I see the notice under no more external links and to add to discussion to see if appropriate. What is the best way to determine if content of this nature is appropriate (if at all)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thx2 (talk • contribs) 04:22, 16 April 2007 (UTC). That's an article on a pay site, and not all that deep. Links to primary sources such as the FBI, or non-profits with significant information would be relevant. Eschulma 13:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Definition
The very first sentence states: "A criminal record is a list of past crimes an individual has been convicted of." Is that really the case, that crimes under investigation or crimes, which have led to accusation but no conviction are not part of the criminal record? --Sir48 (talk) 13:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * There seems to be a lot of ambiguity about this. I think the definition of "criminal record" varies between countries, and even between different states of the US. Consider this statement form the website of a New York criminal defence lawyer: "...the simple fact that you have been arrested does not mean that you have been convicted of anything. An arrest is not a conviction. An arrest does not give you a criminal record.  The only way you can ever get a criminal record is if you are convicted of a crime after a trial or if you plead guilty to a crime." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.241.199.124 (talk • contribs)

 * The differences seem to be between (at least) the US and the UK, maybe someone can point them out in the lead - the rest of the article makes that distinction. --CliffC (talk) 12:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Redirect
The first sentence in this article reads "This article is about the crime term. For the record label, see Criminal Records," yet that URL links right back to the same page. For my part, "Criminal Records" is an Atlanta, GA institution—record store, record label that is well-entrenched in the music and comedy communities there. I don't know how to suss out who made the redirect, but I suggest this article pick a lane, either way. o0drogue0o 18:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Definition
wagwan tho blud? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.52.47 (talk) 15:28, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

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Section swap
I believe that the section about criminal records in Greece and the section about criminal records in Germany should swap places for alphabetical order purposes. Xboxsponge15 (talk) 15:51, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree. I just wonder whether there is a better way to lay out this article so that it isn’t an indiscriminate list of the laws in many individual countries. Maybe it would be better to organize it by world regions or continents. Larry Hockett (Talk) 03:27, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Request: explain what happens when someone is convicted by an international court, where the criminal record exists
Hi

Please can I make a request that there is an explanation of where the criminal record exists for international courts?

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 13:22, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Criminal record


text:
Talk:A Tyranny of Souls

Mis-named
This album is called Tyranny of Souls not A Tyranny of Souls, the title track is, however spelled with the "A" - just not the album title.

I´ve corrected it... I´d also added a Redirect page for A Tyranny of Souls Loudenvier 02:56, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:A Tyranny of Souls


text: User talk:69.179.222.248

title: User talk:69.179.222.248


text:
Roselle (plant)

Roselle (Hibiscus sabdariffa) is a species of flowering plant in the genus Hibiscus that is native to Africa, most likely West Africa. In the 16th and early 17th centuries it was spread to Asia and the West Indies, where it has since become naturalized in many places. The stems are used for the production of bast fibre and the dried cranberry-tasting calyces are commonly steeped to make a popular infusion known by many names, including carcade.

Description
Roselle is an annual or perennial herb or woody-based subshrub, growing to 2 – tall. The leaves are deeply three- to five-lobed, 8 – long, arranged alternately on the stems.

The flowers are 8 – in diameter, white to pale yellow with a dark red spot at the base of each petal, and have a stout, conspicuous calyx at the base, 1 – wide, enlarging to 3 – and becoming fleshy and a deep crimson red as the fruit matures, which takes about six months.

Asia
Roselle is known as karkadeh (كركديه) in Arabic, chin baung (ချဉ်ပေါင်) in Burmese, luòshénhuā (洛神花) in Chinese, กระเจี๊ยบ  in Thai, ສົ້ມພໍດີ /sőm phɔː diː/ in Lao, ស្លឹកជូរ /slɜk cuː/ សណ្តាន់ទេស /sɑndan tẹːh/, ម្ជូរបារាំង /məcuː baraŋ/, or ម្ជូរព្រឹក /məcuː prɨk/ in Khmer, and cây quế mầu, cây bụp giấm, or cây bụt giấm in Vietnamese.

South Asia
Roselle is known as chukur (চুকুর), and amlamadhur (অম্লমধুর) in Bengali. It is called ya pung by the Marma people of Bangladesh's Chittagong Hill Tracts.

In north eastern India and environs, it is called tengamora (টেঙামৰা) by various indigenous ethnic groups of Assam. In addition, it is known as hoilfa (হইলফা) in Sylheti, dachang or datchang by Atongs,  mwita among the Bodo, amile among Chakmas mostly in Chittagong, gal•da among Garos, hanserong among Karbi (an indigenous group of Asaam), hantserup among Lotha of Nagaland. Other names are okhreo among Maos, sillo sougri among Meitei and belchanda (बेलचण्डा) among Nepalis. Anthur sen (roselle red) in Hakha Chin, lakher anthur in Mizo and hmiakhu saipa (roselle red) or matu hmiakhu in the Mara language are names used in Mizoram, India and Chin State, Myanmar.

In eastern and central India, roselle in Odia is known as kaaunria saga (କାଊଂରିଆ ଶାଗ) in Koraput and Malkangiri districts of Odisha, khata palanga (ଖଟାପାଳଙ୍ଗ) in the Jagatsinghpur and Cuttack districts and takabhendi (ଟକଭେଣ୍ଡି) in the Balasore district. In the Chota Nagpur region, it is called kudrum or dhepa saag in Nagpuri (Sadri). It is also known by other names in different languages of this region, like ipil jongor, which means "star fruit" in the Mundari language.

In southern and western India, it is known as pundi palle (ಪುಂಡಿ ಪಲ್ಯ) or pundi soppu (ಪುಂಡಿ ಸೊಪ್ಪು) in Kannada, mathippuli (മത്തിപ്പുളി) or pulivenda (പുളിവെണ്ട) in Malayalam, ambadi (अंबाडी) in Maharashtra, pulicha keerai (புளிச்சகீரை) in Tamil and gongura (గోంగూర) in Telugu.

Australia
In Australia, roselle is known as the rosella or rosella fruit. It is naturalised in Australia and its introduction is thought to have been from interactions with Makassar traders. Australia also has a native rosella, Hibiscus heterophyllus, known as wyrrung to Koori aboriginal people in New South Wales. It is indigenous to eastern parts of New South Wales and Queensland and is one of about 40 species of Hibiscus native to Australia.

Africa
In West Africa, roselle is known as ìsápá among the Yoruba in southwest Nigeria and yakuwa by the Hausa people of northern Nigeria who also call the seeds gurguzu and the capsule cover zoborodo or zobo. In Igbo which is spoken in Southern Nigeria, as well as Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea, it is called ojō or ọkwọrọ-ozo.

Among the Tiv people of Central Nigeria, the plant is called ashwe while the capsule is referred to as agbende ashwe. It is primarily consumed as a soup in three forms: The leaves are either cooked, or steamed and crushed on a grinding stone, in which form it is considered a delicacy due to its preservation of the characteristic tang (slightly sour taste) of the leaves. The outer covering of the capsule (green variety) is also cooked as a soup which does not have the tang of the leaves. The red variant of the capsule are rarely (if ever) cooked, but instead boiled and the extract cooled and drunk (like tea or soda when sugar is added). This form is known as zobo, which is actually a borrowed name, just as this method of preparation is borrowed. Traditionally the red variant was used as a dye to color wood, and similar materials.

In Fula language, spoken in a number of countries across West and Middle Africa, roselle is known as chia or foléré. It is known as bissap in Wolof, in Senegal. In Dagbani, it is known as birili and a sour seasoning made from the flowers is kananjuŋ. It is called wegda in the Mossi language, one of four official regional languages spoken in Burkina Faso.

In Middle Africa, roselle is called ngaï-ngaï (from Lingala) in the Democratic Republic of Congo, while in the Central African Republic, it is dongö or ngbe in Sango.

In East Africa, roselle is called kärkädē (ከርከዴ) in Amharic and Tigrinya, while in Swahili, one of the official languages of the East African Community, it is named choya.

Americas
Roselle is also known as Florida Cranberry or Jamaica sorrel in the United States. It is called saril or flor de Jamaica in Spanish across Central America.

It is known as sorrel in many parts of the English-speaking Caribbean, including Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica and most of the islands in the West Indies. In the French West Indies, it is known as groseille-pays, or as Gwozey-péi in Antillean Creole.

In Brazil, it has a number of names, including vinagreira, and caruru-azedo, and is an important part of a dish regional to the state of Maranhão, Arroz de cuxá.

Phytochemicals
The Hibiscus leaves are a good source of polyphenolic compounds. The major identified compounds include neochlorogenic acid, chlorogenic acid, cryptochlorogenic acid, caffeoylshikimic acid and flavonoid compounds such as quercetin, kaempferol and their derivatives. The flowers are rich in anthocyanins, as well as protocatechuic acid. The dried calyces contain the flavonoids gossypetin, hibiscetine and sabdaretine. The major pigment is not daphniphylline. Small amounts of myrtillin (delphinidin 3-monoglucoside), chrysanthenin (cyanidin 3-monoglucoside), and delphinidin are present. Roselle seeds are a good source of lipid-soluble antioxidants, particularly gamma-tocopherol.

Culinary
In Bihar and Jharkhand roselle is also known as "kudrum" in local language. The bright red petal of the fruit is used for chutney which is sweet and sour in taste.

In Saputara region (near Maharashtra/Gujarat MP border), roselle is called khate fule by local tribal language. The khate fule leaves are mixed with green chillies, salt, some garlic to prepare a chutney and bhaji which is served with jowar (sorghum) or bajra (millet) made bakho (a flat bread). This is eaten by tribals as breakfast to start their day. A dry dish or sukhi bajji is prepared with khate fule leaves.

In Andhra cuisine, roselle is called gongura and is extensively used. The leaves are steamed with lentils and cooked with dal. Another unique dish is prepared by mixing fried leaves with spices and made into a gongura pacchadi, the most famous dish of Andhra and Telangana often described as king of all Andhra foods.

In Manipuri, it is called Sougri and it is used as a vegetable. It is generally cooked without oil by boiling with some other herbs and dried fish and is a favorite of the Manipuri people. Almost every household has this plant in their homes.

In Burmese cuisine, called chin baung ywet (lit. 'sour leaf'), the roselle is widely used and considered affordable. It is perhaps the most widely eaten and popular vegetable in Myanmar. The leaves are fried with garlic, dried or fresh prawns and green chili or cooked with fish. A light soup made from roselle leaves and dried prawn stock is also a popular dish.

Among the Paites tribe of the Manipur Hibiscus sabdariffa and Hibiscus cannabinus locally known as anthuk are cooked along with chicken, fish, crab or pork or any meat, and cooked as a soup as one of their traditional cuisines.

In the Garo Hills of Meghalaya, it is known as galda and is consumed boiled with pork, chicken or fish. After monsoon, the leaves are dried and crushed into powder, then stored for cooking during winter in a rice powder stew, known as galda gisi pura. In the Khasi Hills of Meghalaya, the plant is locally known as jajew, and the leaves are used in local cuisine, cooked with both dried and fresh fish. The Bodos and other indigenous Assamese communities of north east India cook its leaves with fish, shrimp or pork along with boiling it as vegetables which is much relished. Sometimes they add native lye called karwi or khar to bring down its tartness and add flavour.

In the Philippines, the leaves and flowers are used to add sourness to the chicken dish tinola (chicken stew).

In Vietnam, the young leaves, stems and fruits are used for cooking soups with fish or eel.

In Mali, the dried and ground leaves, also called djissima, are commonly used in Songhaï cuisine, in the regions of Timbuktu, Gao and their surroundings. It is the main ingredient in at least two dishes, one called djissima-gounday, where rice is slowly cooked in a broth containing the leaves and lamb, and the other dish is called djissima-mafé, where the leaves are cooked in a tomato sauce, also including lamb. Note that djissima-gounday is also considered an affordable dish.

In Namibia, it is called mutete, and it is consumed by people from the Kavango region in northeastern Namibia.

In the central African nations of Congo-Kinshasa, Congo-Brazzaville and Gabon the leaves are referred to as oseille or ngaï-ngaï, and are used puréed, or in a sauce, often with fish and/or aubergines.

Beverage
In the Caribbean, a drink is made from the roselle fruit (the calyces with the seed pods removed). It is prepared by boiling fresh, frozen or dried roselle fruit in water for 8 to 10 minutes (or until the water turns red), then adding sugar. Bay leaves and cloves may also be added during boiling. It is often served chilled. This is done in St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, Antigua, Barbados, Belize, St. Lucia, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, the US Virgin Islands and St. Kitts and Nevis where the plant or fruit is called sorrel. The drink is one of several inexpensive beverages (aguas frescas) commonly consumed in Mexico and Central America; they are typically made from fresh fruits, juices or extracts. In Mexican restaurants in the US, the beverage is sometimes known simply as Jamaica. It is very popular in Trinidad and Tobago especially as a seasonal drink at Christmas where cinnamon, cloves and bay leaves are preferred to ginger. It is also popular in Jamaica, usually flavored with rum.

In Ghana, Mali, Mauritania, Senegal, The Gambia, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast and Benin, calyces are used to prepare cold, sweet drinks popular in social events, often mixed with mint leaves, dissolved menthol candy, and/or fruit flavors.

The Sudanese karkadeh (كركديه) is a cold drink made by soaking the dried roselle calyces in cold water overnight in a refrigerator with sugar and some lemon or lime juice added. It is then consumed with or without ice cubes after the flowers have been strained. In Lebanon, toasted pine nuts are sometimes added.

Roselle is used in Nigeria to make a refreshing drink known as zobo and natural fruit juices of pineapple and watermelon are added. Ginger is also sometimes added to the refreshing drink.

In the US, a beverage known as hibiscus cooler is made from the tea, a sweetener, and sometimes juice of apple, grape or lemon. The beverage is sold by some juice companies. With the increasing popularity of Mexican cuisine in the US, the calyces are sold in bags usually labeled "flor de Jamaica" and have long been available in health food stores in the U.S. for making tea. In addition to being a popular homemade drink, Jarritos, a popular brand of Mexican soft drinks, makes a flor de Jamaica flavored carbonated beverage. Imported Jarritos can be readily found in the U.S. Beverages made from the roselle fruit are included in a category of "red drinks" associated with West Africa consumed by African Americans. Such red drinks, now usually carbonated soft drinks, are commonly served in soul food restaurants and at African-American social events, including Juneteenth, a celebration of the emancipation of slaves.

In the UK, the dried calyces and ready-made sorrel syrup are widely and cheaply available in Caribbean and Asian grocers. The fresh calyces are imported mainly during December and January to make Christmas and New Year infusions, which are often made into cocktails with rum. They are very perishable, rapidly developing fungal rot, and need to be used soon after purchase — unlike the dried product, which has a long shelf-life.

In Africa, especially the Sahel, roselle is commonly used to make a sugary herbal tea that is sold on the street. The dried flowers can be found in every market. Roselle tea is quite common in Italy where it spread during the first decades of the 20th century as a typical product of the Italian colonies. The Carib Brewery, a Trinidad and Tobago brewery, produces a "shandy sorrel" in which the tea is combined with beer.

In Thailand, roselle is generally drunk as a cool drink, and it can be made into a wine.

Roselle flowers are commonly found in commercial herbal teas, especially teas advertised as berry-flavoured, as they give a bright red colouring to the drink.

Roselle flowers are sold as wild hibiscus flowers in syrup in Australia as a gourmet product. Recipes include filling them with goats cheese; serving them on baguette slices baked with brie; and placing one plus a little syrup in a champagne flute before adding the champagne — the bubbles cause the flower to open.

In Dodoma, Tanzania, roselle juice is brewed to make roselle wine famous by the name of choya.

Preserves
In Nigeria, roselle jam has been made since colonial times and is still sold regularly at community fetes and charity stalls. It is similar in flavour to plum jam, although more acidic. It differs from other jams in that the pectin is obtained from boiling the interior buds of the roselle flowers. It is thus possible to make rosella jam with nothing but roselle buds and sugar.

In Burma, the buds of the roselle are made into 'preserved fruits' or jams. Depending on the method and the preference, the seeds are removed or included. The jams, made from roselle buds and sugar, are red and tangy.

In India, Roselle is commonly made into a type of pickle.

"Sorrel jelly" is manufactured in Trinidad.

Roselle jam is made in Queensland, Australia as a home-made or speciality product sold at fetes and other community events.

In India, the plant is primarily cultivated for the production of bast fibre used in cordage, made from its stem. The fibre may be used as a substitute for jute in making burlap. Hibiscus, specifically roselle, has been used in folk medicine as a diuretic and mild laxative.

The red calyces of the plant are increasingly exported to the United States and Europe, particularly Germany, where they are used as food colourings. It can be found in markets (as flowers or syrup) in places, such as France, where there are Senegalese immigrant communities. The green leaves are used like a spicy version of spinach. They give flavour to the Senegalese fish and rice dish thieboudienne. Proper records are not kept, but the Senegalese government estimates national production and consumption at 700 t per year. In Myanmar their green leaves are the main ingredient in chin baung kyaw curry.

Brazilians attribute stomachic, emollient, and resolutive properties to the bitter roots.

Herbal medicine (high blood pressure)
A 2021 meta-analysis conducted by the Cochrane hypertension group concluded that currently the evidence is insufficient to establish if roselle, when compared to placebo, is effective in managing or lowering blood pressure in people with hypertension. An older meta-survey (2015) in the Journal of Hypertension suggests a typical reduction in blood pressure of around 7.5/3.5 units (systolic/diastolic). Both cite the need for additional well designed studies.

Production

China and Thailand are the largest producers and control much of the world supply. The world's best roselle comes from Sudan and Nigeria, b. Mexico, Egypt, Senegal, Tanzania, Mali and Jamaica are also important suppliers but production is mostly used domestically.

In the Indian subcontinent (especially in the Ganges Delta region), roselle is cultivated for vegetable fibres. Roselle is called meśta (or meshta, the ś indicating an sh sound) in the region. Most of its fibres are locally consumed. However, the fibre (as well as cuttings or butts) from the roselle plant has great demand in natural fibre using industries.

Roselle is a relatively new crop to create an industry in Malaysia. It was introduced in the early 1990s and its commercial planting was first promoted in 1993 by the Department of Agriculture in Terengganu. The planted acreage was 12.8 ha in 1993 and steadily increased to peak at 506 ha by 2000. The planted area is now less than 150 ha annually, planted with two main varieties. Terengganu state used to be the first and the largest producer, but now the production has spread more to other states. Despite the dwindling hectarage over the past decade or so, roselle is becoming increasingly known to the general population as an important pro-health drink. To a small extent, the calyces are also processed into sweet pickle, jelly and jam.

Cultivation
In the initial years, limited research work was conducted by University Malaya and Malaysian Agricultural Research and Development Institute (MARDI). Research work at Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM) was initiated in 1999.

Crop genetic resources and improvement
Genetic variation is important for plant breeders to increase crop productivity. Being an introduced species in Malaysia, there is a very limited number of germplasm accessions available for breeding.

UKM maintains a working germplasm collection and conducts agronomic research and crop improvement.

Mutation breeding
Conventional hybridization is difficult to carry out in roselle due to its cleistogamous nature of reproduction. Because of this, a mutation breeding programme was initiated to generate new genetic variability. The use of induced mutations for its improvement was initiated in 1999 in cooperation with MINT (now called Malaysian Nuclear Agency) and has produced some promising breeding lines. Roselle is a tetraploid species; thus, segregating populations require longer time to achieve fixation as compared to diploid species. In April 2009, UKM launched three new varieties named UKMR-1, UKMR-2 and UKMR-3. These new varieties were developed using Arab as the parent variety in a mutation breeding programme which started in 2006.

Natural outcrossing under local conditions
A study was conducted to estimate the amount of outcrossing under local conditions in Malaysia. It was found that outcrossing occurred at a very low rate of about 0.02%. However, this rate is much lower in comparison to estimates of natural cross-pollination of between 0.20% and 0.68% as reported in Jamaica.

title: Roselle (plant)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fifteen (restaurant)

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. —Korath (Talk) 04:48, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

Fifteen (restaurant)
Evidence of notability is that Bill Clinton dined there once. Not enough, I think. Gazpacho 21:39, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * keep, a whole reality TV series was based here. Kappa 22:36, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, is notable. Has been expanded, though it needs more. The Clinton thing is only one small part. Fifteen was a charitable project recruiting disadvantaged youths as cooks and training them from scratch, it was the subject of one TV series in the UK and provided the backdrop to another. Qwghlm 22:50, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, is notable - have even heard of the restaurant here in the antipodes, I would say though that there are not many notable restaurants and perhaps as a category needs to be monitored --AYArktos 01:21, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Subject of a TV series? Run by celebrity chef Jamie (Pukka) Oliver? Of course it's keep. --Calton | Talk 05:29, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, restaurant's chef is famous. Anything with famous people is notable!!!!!!!!!!1!`9 Asriel86 05:52, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep, this one's notable. Jamie Oliver owns it and what has been said about the TV show is correct. It was also shown here in the Netherlands. Keep. Mgm|(talk) 07:51, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. Also shown in Australia. I think the series have been shown all over the world. Capitalistroadster 10:54, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. N-Mantalk 12:24, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep Jamie Oliver's restaurant. Chris 00:59, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * slow keep the head chef here made healthy school dinners. He's much more noteworthy some "Bill Clinton" guy..  The restaurant is FAMOUS.  Consider deleting unknowns like Jesus instead. Mozzerati 20:14, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
 * keep why are people deleting this? who does this gazpacho think he is, the gestapo? King Dedede 22:58, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.