text:
Talk:Flag football

Play
How exactly do you play flag football? like what are the rules? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.249.85.9 (talk • contribs) 18:16, Apr 18, 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly like regular football, except instead of tackling someone, you remove one of their flags. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.155.222 (talk • contribs) 23:57, Oct 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Some other variations to the rules also due to the size of the teams and fields. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.82.27.131 (talk • contribs) 21:04, Sept 13, 2006 (UTC)
 * 65.82.27.131, Please don't modify others' comments, add your own. --Bdoserror 22:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

 * why did they come up with that name 71.60.119.170 (talk) 20:16, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Rewrite
I rewrote this page substantially. At somepoint, the "Basics of the Game" section, which seemed like a useful introduction, had been removed; I put it back. I expanded a bit on "Variations". I also deleted entirely the section on the Worcester (Mass) league as being too regional and not generally useful or noteable. Bikeable 04:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Notability for external links
I think the external links section wil get bloated with leagues unless kept to WP:NOTABLE leagues. For now, I would take that to mean national level only, especially as North America probably has hundreds. --Bdoserror 03:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Non-notable competition
I removed the following:
 * One highly competitive flag-football league is the ONCF, based in Scarborough, Ontario, Canada. In the summer of 2006 the ! handily won the championship trophy against the undefeated Rage.  The ! players received several league awards including League Offensive MVP (Andrew Carnell), and Playoff MVP (Sergio Novelo).  Quarterback Chris Greer was selected as the championship MVP.

If someone can provide a citation to back it up, and to show noteworthiness, then it can be replaced. --Bdoserror 03:12, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Triangle Area Flag Football League
I have removed the following link: As this league doesn't appear particularly notable. Please don't add it back until it's notability is established. --Bdoserror 21:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Triangle Area Flag Football League
 * And also see what Wikipedia is not. --Bdoserror 03:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

First downs
Not all leuges follow preset first downs, some leuges are more simmulier to nfl play in wich you must gain a sertain amount of yards to get a firs down -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.31.103.10 (talk • contribs) 2007-07-27T01:55:11

Hall of Fame
After initially reformatting the entry about the Hall of Fame, I searched and could not find any reference to the "National Flag Football Council" anywhere online, so I have removed the following:
 * A Hall-of-Fame for those leagues is being pondered by officials. The National Flag Football Council has submitted James Scorden of Ca., Dashawn Wright of Fl., Arnold Geoffrey of Indiana, and Luis "Luigi" Orengo of New York for consideration.

-- Bdoserror 16:44, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Question on notability
xflagfootball is on the west coast, including hawaii. It is not a national league but it is in multiple states and will soon expand to Mexico, thus it would be an international league.

X Flag Football —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.37.61 (talk) 04:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

X does have the busiest message board of any league. Does that qualify as notability? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.37.61 (talk) 03:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Forums traffic is not a criteria for Notability. See the link for what is. -- Bdoserror (talk) 07:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

An active message board is notable, and the most active messageboard seems like a reason to include it in the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LouPepe (talk • contribs) 19:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Just because you say it's notable for an acive message board, doesn't mean it's so. Please read the page on notability and then make your case.  Until then, I'll remove the link for now. -- Bdoserror (talk) 19:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh look, someone else beat me to it. -- Bdoserror (talk) 19:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, please sign your comments by putting "~" after them.

Two countries, 3 states, and the most active message board of any flag football league in the world is enough notability for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LouPepe (talk • contribs) 20:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have some independent verifcation of "most active message board of any flag football league in the world"? And that doesn't even mean that's significant.  That could be like being the "the best ballerina in all of Galveston" (to borrow the quote from M*A*S*H) for all I know.
 * As far as "2 countries, 3 states", that isn't backed up by the XFootball's own website -- that looks like two states (CA & HI) and 1 country (USA) to me.
 * Finally, can you find some independent, reliable 2nd hand reference to this league which would lend your claim of notability some credence (per the notability requirements? Maybe a mention on flagfootball.com or some other well known site, or a news story.  Otherwise this looks like vanity (if you're connected to the league) or spam. Please don't add the link back until you can answer these questions or else this may run afoul of the three revert rule, resulting in one or both of us being blocked from editing.  Remember, this is an encyclopedia, not an advertising site. -- Bdoserror (talk) 23:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Obviously there isn't a website that clearly rates messageboards based on their page hits. I've went to many different websites and searched their message boards, x is getting several hundred posts each day! The closest competitor gets less than 10 per day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LouPepe (talk • contribs) 05:55, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Then this is not verifiable information and is your own original research, 2 things which do not belong on Wikipedia. I'm going to remove it again.  If you really want this link in, please read the links I've provided on what it belongs in Wikipedia.  If you still think that link belongs here, then take it to either an admin or, ultimately, arbitration instead of edit warring.  Seriously, just because you think it's significant doesn't mean it is.  This is an encyclopedia, not a place for anyone to put up their links. -- Bdoserror (talk) 04:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This article is about flag football. External links to leagues just because they are flag football leagues are not relevant. Forum traffic is also irrelevant to notability or anything else to do with external links. External links here should only link to meritable websites that explain or delve into flag football in authoritative detail that we can't have here in one article. 2005 (talk) 05:53, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * LouPepe/Sgt dizzle guy Your sockpuppetry does not constitute consensus on on the notability of xfootball.com. Please don't add the link again. - Bdoserror (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

OK, I do not know why flagmag.com would be taken off this list. It is an internation flag football website with information regarding flag football rules and plays. The site has been open for ten years. Can someone please tell me what the problem is? Thejimgaudet (talk) 15:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

11 man flag football
I played this variety in an intra-mural league at college in the 1960's, yet this article only mentions 9 and few man versions. Wschart (talk) 19:13, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

tag football
Flag football is apparently called "tag football" in NZ: http://www.nztagfootball.co.nz/index.php?page=what-is-kiwitag but this is used for "touch football" in the US. --Espoo (talk) 07:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

possible over deletion
A large chunk of this article appears to have been removed, I'm unsure if it should be reverted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by N8 Toe (talk • contribs) 00:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Basic rules
Flag football is a bit of a tricky subject, because there literally hundreds of leagues and each use slightly different variations on things like field dimensions, scoring system, number and gender of players, fumble rules, kicking elements, blocking elements, and so on. Posting your home league's rules is actually misleading, as it does not reflect the diversity of rules out there. To the extent this article has a basic section it would have to include only elements universal to all flag football games--a rectangular field, throwing and catching, touchdowns (but not conversions, as leagues vary on whether they are worth 1 or 2 points, whether there is an option, whether they're returnable, and where they are attempted from), and flag-pulling. Given that I suspect that general language about how flag football differs from traditional and a link to the rule of American football may be a better approach. Certainly interested if others have better ideas though. Thomas Craven (talk) 15:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Merge with Touch Football or Street football (American)?
Touch and flag football are effectively just variations of the same game. The only difference is that tackling is accomplished via flag-pulling or hand-contact. Street football (American) falls under the same umbrella. I see no reason for these not to be combined in a single article. The heading could be any of the three, or something like Non-tackle American football. Otherwise we will have three different versions of the same article varying only with regard to the specifics of what constitutes a tackle. Thomas Craven (talk) 15:26, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

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Canadian flag football
I assume that the Canadian Flag Football League plays by a ruleset more in line with Canadian football. If so, shouldn't the intro say "Flag football is a variant of American and Canadian football"? Or include Canadian football in SOME way. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 21:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Found a rule book for Canadian flag football and it uses 3 downs, just like Canadian football. I've added a quick note to the lead, could probably be done better. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 21:43, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flag football


text: Category:Education in Lancashire

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Education in Lancashire


text:
Talk:Vladimir Petrov (ice hockey)

1980 - silver!
From persisting changes of "silver" to "bronze" in Vladislav Tretiak article and now here, I see, that quite a wide-spread confusion was caused by some of the major media, covering the event. For the fact, that there was silver, not bronze, please, check out the official website of the IOC:. The point is that the competition system in the medal round was round-robin, not play-offs. More links on this old question are available at Talk:Ice hockey at the 1980 Winter Olympics. Cmapm 00:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Vladimir Petrov (ice hockey)


text:
Folklore of Lancashire

Lancashire, like all other counties of England, has historically had its own peculiar superstitions, manners, and customs, which may or may not find parallels in those of other localities.

Supernatural folklore
Boggarts are associated with the county (though they can be found elsewhere in the North West). Boggart was a generic name for a solitary supernatural being. It included ghosts, shape-changers, house-faeries and will o' the wisps. Boggarts in Lancashire included Clapcans, a noise-making bogie reported in the Greater Manchester area. A figure associated with water was Jenny Greenteeth, responsible for drowning children. Another Lancashire dialect word for supernatural beings was 'Feorin '' (frightening things): this was sometimes applied to fairies.

There was, in fact, extensive fairylore in the county with many Lancashire fairy placenames including, for instance, the Fairy Caves between Blackburn and Accrington.

There is a great deal of devil-lore in the north-west. In many parts of Lancashire there are devil placenames, such as, for instance, the Devil's Footprints and the Devil's Apronful near Pendle.

Calendar customs
There are a number of Lancashire calendar customs usually tied to localities. Examples include rushbearing at Middleton and Riding the Black Lad at Ashton-under-Lyme.

Witchcraft and cunning folk
The Pendle witch trials of 1612 associated Lancashire with witchcraft in the popular imagination: this was particularly so in the nineteenth century after William Ainsworth's celebrated historical novel The Lancashire Witches (1848). The 1612 trials were, by no means, the last in the county. For instance, in 1634, there were further witch trials at Pendle itself.

Cunning men and women operated in Lancashire right through the 1800s. Take, for instance, Owd [Old] Rollison at Worsley with his small library of occult books.

Writers on lancashire folklore
Lancashire folklore writing began in earnest in the 1820s and continues through to today. It is one of the most vigorous folklore writing traditions in Britain.

Roby and Co., 1829–c.1850
The First Age of Lancashire folklore writing spans 1829 to around 1850. It was defined by the romanticization of folklore, in the works of John Roby, whose Traditions of Lancashire set a precedent for future folklore writings in Lancashire (and also Britain more generally). Roby's approach, though criticized for its fictionalization of sources, was instrumental in popularizing folklore. His contemporaries, including 'the Chronicler' (an anonymous Wigan writer), William Thornber (for Blackpool) and Samuel Bamford, contributed local traditions. Bamford, a working-class author, provided a raw, authentic insight into local beliefs and superstitions, distinguishing his works from Roby’s romanticized narratives.

The Manchester School, c.1850–1880
This era saw a surge in serious and scholarly folklore collection and writing: in fact, Lancashire arguably led the county in this period in folklore collection. Pivotal figures like John Harland, John Higson, Thomas Turner Wilkinson, James Bowker and Charles Hardwick emerged, bringing a more academic and rigorous approach to folklore writing. Central were Harland and Wilkinson's works including two jointly-authored monographs Lancashire Folk-Lore and Lancashire Legends, Traditions, Pageants, Sports &c. The writers of this period moved beyond mere collection to analyze and compare folklore themes. These figures were overwhelmingly concentrated in south-eastern Lancashire and many knew and socialised with each other. Their lives centred on Manchester. Another feature of the folklore writing of this period was that it often took place in Lancashire dialect literature: Edwin Waugh, and many others treated folklore themes, above all, boggarts.

Dribs and Drabs, c.1880–1920s
While folklore writing was taking off in Britain, often under the influence of the Folklore Society, it receded in Lancashire. In this period there were various unconnected individuals across the county producing works of varying quality. Notable contributors included W.E.A. Axon, who explored folklore in a controlled manner, comparing Lancashire traditions with those of other regions and countries. Charles Roeder,  a German scholar, wrote on Moston. Tatersall Wilkinson published on the folklore of Burnley. Ammon Wrigley became the most important author on Saddleworth dialect and traditions. Henry Cowper included a remarkable chapter on the folklore of Hawkshead in his book on the same parish (then part of Lancashire). James McKay gave a series of talks on boggarts at Burnley. Then the vicar G. R. Oakley wrote Roby-style stories about Rochdale.

Later writers
W. Langley Roberts published in 1931 a children's book on county traditions. Frederick Grice brought out a pamphlet in 1953 for adults. In 2018 Melanie Warren published Lancashire Folk, an overview of folklore in the county. Ceri Houlbrook has written, in an academic key, on boggarts and particularly Boggart Hole Clough.

title: Folklore of Lancashire


text:
Talk:Sergei Samsonov

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Talk:Alexei Yashin

Removed Neutrality Tag
I don't see a POV issue here. I consider myself more pro-Yashin than just about anybody I know, and I think that the article more or less focuses on the facts and doesn't say anything untrue or unfair. If any individual editors have specific spots in mind, they're free to edit the article to remove what they see as a lack of neutrality. Croctotheface 05:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Here are a few examples of questionably NPOV sentences:
 * Yashin soon eclipsed Daigle as the team's brightest young star
 * the pinnacle of his career came in the 1998-99 season
 * Yashin's anger at being paid less than Daigle was probably justified since Daigle never even approached his potential.
 * his mediocre point production has led people both inside and outside the Islanders organization to question his effort and salary
 * Satan and Yashin showed signs of chemistry early in the season, but generally produced disappointing results.

 * According to Wikipedia's official policy, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. So while I'm not saying the above statements are false, they should either have citations/sources or they should be edited/removed. I guess it's fine to remove the NPOV tag as long as the unreferenced tag stays, because if proper citations/sources are added, that should take care of the NPOV problem at the same time. I will try to add some citations in the next week or so. If anyone has any good links to articles about Yashin, but doesn't want to go through the trouble of incorporating them into this article, you can just provide the links here and I'll try to work on them. --Muéro 05:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I think that the Daigle-related statements are supported by the statistical comparisons. The same could probably be said of the "pinnacle" statement beig supported by statistics, though I'd be fine with weakening that statement.  The "mediocre point production" sentence should be sourced, but it's definitely factual.  Just about any NY-area article on Yashin would do as a source.  The Satan/Yashin statement, while true, could be rewritten.  I know that Islanders broadcasters talked about that matter a lot, but that's not really a verifiable source unless someone has tapes.  More generally--and I admit that this is kind of a non-answer--I'm more concerned with untrue, inaccurate, or opinionated statements, since 90% of Wikipedia is unsourced. Naturally, though, the article should be sourced.  Croctotheface 06:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Just got some links some some of the assertions. Speaking of the questionable NPOV sentences, most of them were made by sports analysts, particularly CNN Sports Illustrated. Although the use of columns is discretionary, I would say that there could be nothing else on Sen's management treatment of Daigle and Yashin. GoldDragon 01:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not in a rush to remove the unsourced tag but I feel that most of the major points have been sourced. GoldDragon 01:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Is the injury relevant?
I'm not sure this is relevant. My inclination is that two months from now, it won't matter at all. I'd probably be inclined to remove it. Croctotheface 23:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Pejorative nickname?
I don't really think that the "nickname" section of the infobox is really intended for nicknames like this. I know from reading fan forums that many players receive similar punny pejorative nicknames like this from fans. I appreciate the sources, but I still question whether it's really necessary or appropriate for the article. Croctotheface 02:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm by no means married to it, I just saw it was removed for being poorly sourced and sourced it. His image in Ottawa is no secret, but dragging it into the article without making the whole thing tilt under POV won't happen.  But yeah, if such shining Lady Byng candidates as Darius Kasparitis and Sean Avery don't merit mentions like these for their on-ice behaviour, Yashin's off-ice & dressing room antics certainly don't call for it. Flakeloaf 03:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfair
I dont think this article is written from a neutral point of view. it seems to focus alot on Yashin asking for more money and not playing to pontential so i think it should be adjusted so it says "some fans think" instead of writing it like a fact because it is more of an oppinion.64.6.202.210 01:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)Tubyboulin
 * I'm generally not a fan of adding clauses like "some think" onto statements that are not specifically related to fan opinion. It would be less accurate to say something like, "Some fans think Yashin held out to secure a better contract" or "some fans think Yashin's point production has declined" because the hold out and decreased point production are facts, not matters of opinion.  If there are unattributed statements of opinion in the article, then they should certainly be attributed or removed.  In general, I don't think it's inaccurate or unfair to focus on the controvery Yashin has created: that's what drives the coverage he gets in news publications.  The New York press rarely mentions him without making reference to his contract and the less-than-stellar years he's had since signing it. Croctotheface 01:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

well the new york press is a bunch of idiots so i dont think we should base articles on them, and your examples are not what i meant, i meant things like " Some people think Yashin did not play to his potential" not "some fans think Yashin's point production has declined"
 * Is there a line like that in the article? I think that there's a line about Alex Daigle not playing to his potential, but that's about as close to factual as you can get. Croctotheface 03:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Alexei Yashin


text: Talk:Sergei Zubov

title: Talk:Sergei Zubov


text:
Talk:Peter Bondra

"Much-publicized image"
This was recently added to the article: "In a much-publicized image, Bondra was crying as he cleaned out his locker." There's no source for this, and I don't recall seeing it on ESPN or anywhere else in the news. Could someone please provide a news source for this? --Idont Havaname (Talk) 04:42, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Residence
are we sure bonzai still lives in riva? i think it's probable that since being named general amnager of the slovak national team, he has gone home.Toyokuni3 (talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

when did he really move to czech?
according to legends of hockey, bondra didn't leave ukraine until he was 14 years old: http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/SearchPlayer.jsp?player=10544 --Львівське (talk) 03:32, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Peter Bondra


text:
Talk:Zdeno Chára

Untitled
The Onion: Zdeno Chara Out Two To Three Periods With Fractured Skull, Broken Leg

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/54213

2007 hardest shot faster than 2008 "new fastest"
How is this possible? The 2007 hardest shot 104 mph comment was not cited, the 2008 was 103.? mph. Something is strange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.100.124 (talk) 05:55, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Top Image update
Does anybody got a image of him today? The Senators image is outdated. GoodDay (talk) 15:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree, there should deffentially be a picture of him on the Bruins. Hattrick123 (talk) 17:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Done. There were several available at Wikimedia Commons. - Fullobeans (talk) 19:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Pacioretty hit
On March 8, 2011, Pacioretty suffered a severe concussion and a neck injury following a push by Zdeno Chara which resulted Pacioretty coming in contact with the turnbuckle at the end of the bench. He was taken off ice on a stretcher.[3] The extent of the injury was revealed the next day to be a fracture to the 4th vertebra and a severe concussion.[4] For delivering the hit Chara received a five-minute major penalty and a game misconduct, and after reviewing videotape of the play the NHL decided no further punishment was warranted.[5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.114.19.4 (talk) 18:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've refactored the thread title, as it was a WP:BLP violation. This is not the place to discuss your personal opinion of the hit. Now, is there something you wish to be added to this article?  I am aware that this text is from the Pacioretty article, but if you wish to request a neutrally worded paragraph be added to this article, please post it here and include the references you would like to add.  I, or someone else, will look to do so. Resolute 18:44, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

✅ SweetNightmares (talk) 18:52, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Do we really need a section on the Pacioretty hit? There was no suspension from the play, both players have resumed their careers, and it did not result in any broader systemic changes. Merlin3649 (talk) 22:59, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it should be mentioned that the incident led to changes being made to the glass in every rink in the league. Pens Through My Lens (talk) 17:41, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Air Canada
Personally, I believe Air Canada's sponsorship should be discussed under the "Chara incident" section. And I can't find any article that mentions that Air Canada has "backed off." --SweetNightmares (talk) 18:34, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't. Air Canada's reaction would have to be balanced with the counter arguments, i.e.: Don Cherry arguing that because AC is based in Montreal, the complaints of the VP is rather self-servering, Bettman's response about how the league could look for a new carrier if Air Canada pulls out, a threat echoed by the Toronto Maple Leafs. It is way beyond the scope of Chara's biography, and places undue weight on the opinion of one VP.  If anything, it belongs in a section on 2010–11 NHL season or bio=yes.  Or, perhaps as part of a larger new article on bio=yes, or something similar. Resolute 19:03, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

True or not: his father, Zdenek, competed for Czechoslovakia in the 1976 Summer Olympics?
There is a text that "His father, Zdenek, was a prominent Greco-Roman wrestler who competed for Czechoslovakia in the 1976 Summer Olympics". But why we can't find his results from olympic archives or from anywhere else? We had a discussion about that on fi:Keskustelu:Zdeněk_Chára. --Stryn (talk) 20:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * See closer The report of 1976 Olympics. --Aulis Eskola (talk) 19:55, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Zdeno Chára


text:
Talk:Pavol Demitra

World Junior Championships
From the page of WJIHC 1993 it follows that Demitra has competed for Czechoslovakia, dissolved during tourney to Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. As he is and always was Slovak, it seems strange that the infobox and text both list him as playing for Czech Republic. Czechoslovakia seems to be more appropriate in both cases. --Ruziklan (talk) 16:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Death
We don't know at this current moment (see time at right) whether Demitra (1) was on the plane, or (2) whether he survived the crash, which, according to the information we have now, between one and three people are said to have done. So nothing should be written about his death UNTIL IT IS CONFIRMED.David ekstrand (talk) 13:31, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The only source people have is this, and it explicitly states it isn't known whether he was even on board. Talk about a major WP:BLP violation, announcing this guy is dead, when he could very well have not been in the squad travelling to Minsk. --Russavia Let's dialogue 14:53, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * |NHL|home "According to Sov Sport, Locomotiv has confirmed that the entire main roster, plus four players from the youth team, were on the plane" source says russian officials have announced the entire roster was on the plane. -DJSasso (talk) 14:55, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * And there are also sources which state there were survivors. It is 1.5 hours after a crash, and here we are already guessing who is and isn't dead. We don't wait for speculation to announce subjects of WP:BLP dead, we wait until actual confirmation from something a little more official. --Russavia Let's dialogue 14:59, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Interfax is reporting the one of the two survivors is Alexander Galimov and a crew member. So once we have confirmation he was on board, it seems he has not survived. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 15:15, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, MChS says that thus far only 26 bodies have been recovered, out of 45 on board, minus the 2 survivors. That means 17 bodies unaccounted for, and who they are is, or whether they are alive or dead, is anyone's guess. And we don't guess with WP:BLPs in that way. --Russavia Let's dialogue 15:36, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Globe and Mail is reporting via his agent that Demitra is dead. Does this qualify as sourced? If his agent says he is, I'd assume he'd be the first person notified beyond family. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 15:38, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes I would say it does since it is his agent, who is for all intents and purposes his publicist. -DJSasso (talk) 16:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 87.197.108.73, 7 September 2011
Add date of decease - 07 September 2011.

87.197.108.73 (talk) 15:06, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The reason for the protection is to stop the back and forth changing of the death information. -DJSasso (talk) 15:08, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Why is this still locked?
I understand locking pages before the death is confirmed but his death has been confirmed for about 16 hours now. No need for the page to remain locked unless people begin vandalizing the page but this isn't exactly a controversial death like ones where people speculate on the cause of death and such, since it's pretty obvious how he died. 68.81.180.171 (talk) 06:41, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Pavol Demitra


text:
Wang Ruowang

Wang Ruowang (February 4, 1918 – December 19, 2001) was a Chinese author and dissident who was imprisoned various times for political reasons by both the Kuomintang and the Communist government of China for advocating reform and liberalization. His name at birth was "Shouhua", but he was most commonly known by his pen name, "Ruowang". He was a prolific essayist and literary critic.

Wang was a member of the Chinese Communist Party from 1937 to 1957, when he was expelled for holding "rightist views". He rejoined the Communist Party 1979, but in 1987 he was again expelled by Deng Xiaoping for promoting "bourgeois liberalization". After his death in exile in New York City, he was widely eulogized as one of the Chinese government's most significant social and political critics.

Early life
In 1932, when Wang was fifteen years old, he was expelled from school for taking part in a student demonstration. He joined the Communist Youth League later that year. In 1933 he moved to Shanghai, where he began work at a pharmaceutical factory while operating as a low-level Communist agent. While working at this factory he founded a publication, Toilet Literature, a newspaper that was distributed by being pasted on the walls of the factory workers' bathroom area. After writing an article in which he mocked Chiang Kai-shek for allowing the Japanese to seize Manchuria, he was arrested in May 1934, and sentenced to ten years in prison. After the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937, Chiang Kai-shek declared a "united front" with the Communists against the Japanese, and Wang was released after serving only three and a half years of his sentence as part of a general amnesty. Some of the Communists imprisoned with Wang became successful officials after the Communist victory in 1949: one became the governor of Guangdong, and another became the deputy governor of Anhui.

After Wang's release, in 1937, he joined the Communist Party of China and traveled to the Communist base in Yan'an. After arriving, Wang wrote one of the first biographical articles on Mao Zedong, and edited cultural journals intended to be circulated among peasants. He joined the Communist Party in order to "fight evil, autocracy and oppression", but was persecuted during the 1942 Yan'an Rectification Campaign for writing for a controversial wall newspaper, Light Cavalry, which was condemned by Party leaders for discussing dark and unsavory aspects of life in Yan'an. One of his friends was killed during the purge. After the purge, Wang was forced by Mao's lieutenant, Kang Sheng, to leave Yan'an and travel to Japanese-occupied Shandong as a low-level Communist agent, where he survived only "through the kindness of peasants". Here, despite his endorsement of Luo Ronghuan, criticized the leadership of the Party, and was labeled the "Wang Shiwei of Shandong" and a secret agent, but was saved from this label and grave consequences by Luo. After entering Japanese-occupied China, Wang was briefly imprisoned by the Japanese, but was released.

Early conflict with the Communist Party
After the Japanese surrendered, in 1945, Wang was pardoned by Kang. He returned to Shanghai, where he worked at the East China Bureau Propaganda Department. He became a co-editor of a prominent local newspaper, and gained a reputation as an essayist and literary critic. In 1956, after Mao encouraged writers to criticize the Communist Party in the "Hundred Flowers Campaign", Wang published ten articles critical of the Communist Party. These articles made him an early victim of the subsequent "Anti-Rightist Campaign", when those who had followed Mao's directions and spoken out were persecuted as "rightists". After being identified as a "rightist", Wang was expelled from the Party, lost his job, and was forced to work at a forced labour camp in the countryside. His wife, Li Ming, was also persecuted for her association with him. After refusing to condemn him, she also lost her job and suffered a mental breakdown.

The Communist Party removed Wang's "rightist" label in 1962, but soon after Wang angered the Party again by publishing a story, "History of a Cauldron", in which he satirized the policies of the Great Leap Forward as cruel, impractical, and ironic. This story led the local leader of the Communist Party, Ke Qingshi, to renew the Party's attacks on Wang and his family. Before she died, in 1964, Wang's wife begged him to protect his family by never writing again. Wang blamed the Communist Party for her death.

After the Cultural Revolution began in 1966, Wang was persecuted as a "counterrevolutionary". He was imprisoned for four years in the same prison building that the Kuomintang had imprisoned him in during the 1930s, enduring conditions that he later described as "fascist brutality". Wang remained a political outcast until 1979, following Deng Xiaoping's ascent to power, when Wang was allowed to rejoin the Communist Party as part of a national programme to rehabilitate those unjustly persecuted during the Cultural Revolution. Following his political rehabilitation, he continued to criticize the government and agitated for greater human rights and democratic reforms.

Following Wang's rehabilitation, he was assigned to work as the deputy director of a Shanghai literary magazine. He resumed his literary career, becoming a member of the councils of both the Shanghai Writers' Association and the Chinese Writers' Association. In 1980 he published an autobiographical novel, Hunger Trilogy, which included a semi-fictional account of his time in both Kuomintang and Communist political prisons. In the book, Wang recalled how the Communists' political prisons had been much more cruel than Kuomintang political prisons. The book angered many Party officials by asserting that, although Chiang's and Mao's dictatorships used hunger as a weapon against their political opponents, Mao was more systematic and ruthless. Hunger Trilogy is the most well-known of Wang's books to be translated into English, and was well-received abroad. Within China, the article of his that gained the most attention was published in 1986, titled "One-Party Dictatorship Can Only Lead to Tyranny".

Involvement with student protests
In December 1986, college students demonstrated in over a dozen Chinese cities in order to agitate for greater economic and political freedoms. Deng Xiaoping, after two straight weeks of student demonstrations, came to the conclusion that the student movement was a result of "bourgeois liberalization", and named three Communist Party members to be expelled: Fang Lizhi, Liu Binyan, and Wang Ruowang. Deng personally attacked Wang for being "wildly presumptuous", and accused him of five "major mistakes", including a belief that Chinese socialism was "feudal or semi-feudal in essence". Because he was the oldest of the three protest leaders, Wang later gained a reputation as "the grandfather of Chinese dissidents". Of the three, he remained in China the longest.

Deng directed then-CCP General Secretary Hu Yaobang to expel them from the Party, but Hu refused. Because of his refusal, Hu was dismissed from his position as General Secretary in January 1987, effectively ending his period of influence within the Chinese government.

Following Wang's second expulsion from the Communist Party, Party officials attempted to mediate with Wang to change Wang's critical opinion of them, but were unsuccessful. In an interview with a reporter from Hong Kong in 1988, Wang came close to advocating the abolition of the Chinese Communist Party. When the Tiananmen Square protests began in 1989, Wang wrote a letter to Deng in support of the protesters, and organized a student march on Shanghai's city hall. The Tiananmen protests were suppressed in the June 4 "Tiananmen Massacre", and Wang went into hiding in the countryside on June 14. His friends influenced him to return to Shanghai on June 19 by convincing him that he would not be arrested.

Wang was one of the few senior leaders of the Tiananmen protests who did not escape China. Following his return to Shanghai, Wang was put under house arrest until he was formally charged for his involvement in the demonstrations on September 8, 1989. He was accused in the Chinese media of "listening to the Voice of America and spreading rumors based on its broadcasts, writing articles in support of the student hunger strike, giving counterrevolutionary speeches on Shanghai's People's Square... publishing articles in the Hong Kong press", and trying to "overthrow the Party's leadership" with his writing. Wang was sentenced to fourteen months in prison. After his release from prison, his activities were closely watched by the government.

Life in exile
In 1992, following pressure from the American government, Wang was allowed to leave his home in Shanghai, in order to accept a temporary position as a visiting scholar at Columbia University, in New York City. He lived as an exile in the United States from then until his death, but always dreamed of returning to China. He traveled widely through North America, attempting to unite other exiled Chinese dissidents in a common cause, but was unsuccessful.

He died on December 19, 2001, two weeks after his doctors discovered that he had terminal lung cancer. One week before Wang's death the Chinese government offered to allow Wang to return to China on the condition that he not publish articles critical of the Chinese government or meet with local dissidents, but he refused. He was sent to Elmhurst Hospital in New York City, where he died. He was survived by his second wife, Yang Zi, and seven children. Two of his children flew from Shanghai to be with him before he died.

Following Wang's death, the Chinese government arrested ten men in Shanghai for discussing the possibility of a memorial service for Wang. Hundreds of people visited his memorial service in New York, including the most significant Chinese exiles then living in the United States. Some of those present included Liu Binyan, Fang Lizhi, Yan Jiaqi, Harry Wu, Wei Jingsheng, Xiao Qiang, Wang Dan, Tang Baiqiao, Cao Changqing, Chen Pokong and Gao Zhan. A representative of The Dalai Lama, who Wang had met several times following his exile, eulogized him at the memorial as a "freedom fighter".

title: Wang Ruowang


text:
Talk:Žigmund Pálffy

The history
someone moved the page by copy pasting which screwed up the history. It needs to be fixed. Masterhatch 19:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The history from this article needs to be merged with the history from Žigmund Pálffy. Masterhatch 19:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

January 2012
Palffy is a player of Hungarian origin. Palffy has Slovak nationality, born in Skalica home to 94.84% of Slovaks, Czechs 3.61% and 0.61% Roma. He who is questionable, this information provides false information. The data referred to at the Hungarian Ice Hockey Federation, which speak of Hungarian origin, two Slovak players are false lies. They have no proof of these claims bi confirm this information. Therefore, I ask abi this information immediately deleted, and these sites were shown only truthful information. Thank you, loyal hockey fan from Slovakia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.141.102.191 (talk) 10:59, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia goes by verifiability and the Hungarian Ice Hockey Federation, an independent national sports governing body is definetely a reliable source. Interestingly, by none of the other mentioned names in the article came it into question, what is more, encouraged contributors put there their own knowledge to expand the players' background. I can offer you a number of other sources that also confirm it.

 * The International Multicultural Hockey Championship, of which goal is exactly to promote the cultural diversity, and which lists Pálffy who represents the Hungarian heritage in the NHL.
 * Hungary's leading sports paper, Nemzeti Sport's short news about the retirement of Pálffy: About the intention of the 33-years-old Slovak international who is of Hungarian descent were reported by the Slovak papers. ("A szlovák válogatottban szereplő 33 éves magyar származású játékos szándékáról a szlovák lapok tudósítottak.")
 * In an article of Hungarian news channel Inforadio, which talks about the 2010 Winter Olympics: Beside her, two flagbearer who are of Hungarian descent were also processing; the flag of Romania was held by Éva Tófalvi, and the flag of Slovakia by Zigmund Pálffy. ("Rajta kívül még két magyar származású zászlóvivő is felvonult; Románia lobogóját a biatlonos Tófalvi Éva, Szlovákia zászlaját pedig a jégkorongozó Zigmund Pálffy vitte.") (Last paragraph.)
 * If you really are a loyal hockey fan, I'd suggest you to improve the hockey-related articles and help them to reach GA level, instead of removing well-referenced information and getting into troubles. Getting familiar with the fundamental principles of Wikipedia might be also helpful. Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 13:10, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Biographies of living persons
 * We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high quality sources. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be explicitly attributed to a reliable, published source, which is usually done with an inline citation. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.
 * This reference is low quality essay. Its factual accuracy is disputed. It may contain original research. It may contain wording that merely promotes the subject without imparting verifiable information.
 * Who is Zigmond Palffy? I do not know that player.
 * What is "Hungarian descent"? His father and mother are not Hungarians. Please write who in his family was Hungarian. This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. Thank you. --Omen1229 (talk) 15:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high quality sources. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be explicitly attributed to a reliable, published source, which is usually done with an inline citation. – There it is.
 * Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. – There are four reliable sources that support the statement.
 * This reference is low quality essay. Its factual accuracy is disputed. It may contain original research. It may contain wording that merely promotes the subject without imparting verifiable information. – Actually, none of the listed concerns applies for the source, but for the article itself. If you dispute the statement, you can solve the problem by adding reliable sources that clear it. The article does not contain original research, as the citation is exactly says what is written in the article. The article does not contain a single puffer word; it's only a short statement. The reference may do so, however, as written above, it has nothing to do with Wikipedia itself.
 * Who is Zigmond Palffy? I do not know that player. – A misspell of the name does not deny the truth of the article. Even the best materials contain mistakes.
 * What is "Hungarian descent"? His father and mother are not Hungarians. Please write who in his family was Hungarian. – Hungarian descent means he has Hungarian ancestors. I do not know who in his family is Hungarian, however, if you are interested and have the source, would be very welcomed to add the info. A plain statement, on the other hand, that says this or that is not Hungarian is pretty much unverifiable.
 * Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 16:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * – There are four reliable sources that support the statement. > There are not. Hungary's sports papers wrote: "33 year old Hungarian born player" and "Hungarian flag carrier". Its false info and original research. Its factual accuracy is disputed.
 * – The reference may do so, however, as written above, it has nothing to do with Wikipedia itself. > Not true. Be very firm about the use of high quality sources.
 * – A misspell of the name does not deny the truth of the article. Even the best materials contain mistakes. > This is not "best materials", but low quality original research.
 * – I do not know who in his family is Hungarian > Please write who are "Hungarian ancestors" in his family or provide oficial statement of Žigmund Pálffy or stop with original research. --Omen1229 (talk) 17:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * – There are four reliable sources that support the statement. > There are not. Hungary's sports papers wrote: "33 year old Hungarian born player" and "Hungarian flag carrier". Its false info and original research. Its factual accuracy is disputed. – I guess you used a google translator or some other machine translators. The correct translation of the text is given by me a few lines above. You might seek for verification here, if you don't trust me.
 * – The reference may do so, however, as written above, it has nothing to do with Wikipedia itself. > Not true. Be very firm about the use of high quality sources. – I have no concerns about the quality of the sources. If you have, you may looking for help at the reliable sources noticeboard.
 * – A misspell of the name does not deny the truth of the article. Even the best materials contain mistakes. > This is not "best materials", but low quality original research. – Once again, an original research is something that does not appear in any sources, or does, but the sources are adapted wrongly. In this case, the source directly supports the statement.
 * – I do not know who in his family is Hungarian > Please write who are "Hungarian ancestors" in his family or provide oficial statement of Žigmund Pálffy or stop with original research. – Similarly to the previous one, original research is something that is not written down, or not properly in the source. Since there's a clear statement, it cannot be an original research.
 * Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 17:41, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * – I have no concerns about the quality of the sources. If you have, you may looking for help at the reliable sources noticeboard. > This is only your feeling. This essay without references is everything, but definitely is not high quality source.
 * - Once again, an original research is something that does not appear in any sources, or does, but the sources are adapted wrongly. In this case, the source directly supports the statement. > In this case, the really bad source directly supports this low quality essay. Roberto Luango, John Taveres, Manny Moholtra, Jarmir Jagar :-D (maybe they thought jaguar), Dustin Byfluin, Chris Stewert, Pavel Datsuk etc? I know only Roberto Luongo, John Tavares, Manny Malhotra, Jaromir Jagr, Dustin Byfuglien, Chris Stewart, Pavel Datsyuk... This side is joke, everything is wrong.
 * Please provide who are "Hungarian ancestors" in his family or provide oficial statement of Žigmund Pálffy or use of high quality sources with references. If "Hungarian origin" is true, it will be not problem with neutral and quality sources. --Omen1229 (talk) 20:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There's no connection between those two sites... If you question the reliability of World Multicultural Champs then I think it should be listed at the reliable sources noticeboard, but even if you discard that source, there are three others, which support the statement, one from the leading sports paper in Hungary, one from the main governing body of ice hockey in the country, and one from Inforadio news station, all of them appears to be clearly reliable and quality source for me. However, since there's a disagreement between us, I've requested a third a party opinion, to solve the problem. In addition, here's another source from Blikk (Hungarian daily, published by Ringier), which says "The Slovak hockey player who is of Hungarian descent, Zigmund Pálffy, the Czech Olympic gold medalist goaltender Roman Céchmánek, and the bronze medalist Martin Erat were his team mates on the gala match." ("A magyar származású szlovák világbajnok hokis, Zigmund Pálffy (37), a cseh olimpiai aranyérmes kapus, Roman Céchmánek (38) és a bronzérmes Martin Erat (27) volt a csapattársa a gálamérkőzésen.).
 * Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 21:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hungarian Ice Hockey Federation and Hungarian newspapers are not neutral sources, because we talk about "Hungarian origin" of Slovak ice hockey player. Please provide high quality and neutral sources especially with references. Thank you. --Omen1229 (talk) 21:40, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is normal that this info is covered by Hungarian papers, as it is important mostly for them. On the other hand, arbitrarily declaring them biased does not make any sense. Not only becuse of the unjustified reasoning (I don't know why and how would be an independent source biased. The statement is X is of Y origin. There is not any bias here and it don't know how other would it read in "neutral way"), but also because the sources are not exclusive, therefore if once a source/book/paper is identified as reliable/neutral/good for use/etc., it remains so regardless the topic in they are used. Even more, since it is their topic of interest, it makes them a more authentic source of information in the theme. Since I'm rather ready to spend my time on building the 'pedia instead of stuck into endless talks, which just goes round and round without any solution, I'm finished with the topic and completely rely on and accept a careful and wise third opinion, decide the dispute in either way. Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 13:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The "Hungarian origin" of Žigmund Pálffy is only urban legend, which is popular only in Hungary and supported by obscure articles in the Hungarian media. Please stop with these myths or provide high quality and neutral sources especially with references. Regards, --Omen1229 (talk) 16:01, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

I came here from the third opinion page. First I want to say that wikipedia is concerned about verifiability rather than truth. So far it seems we have sources that say is of Hungarian decent (the reliability of them is being contested). Do we have any that say anything to the contrary? My thoughts are that if there are no sources saying he is not of Hungarian decent or something similar, the sources, especially when put together, are enough to merit the mention of his Hungarian in the article. Eomund (talk) 02:18, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree.
 * Do we have any that say anything to the contrary? > We don´t have, because it is not necessary to prove his Slovak origin as player in national ice hockey team. Everyone knows that he is Slovak ice hockey player. 0 reliable results in google with Slovak words "Žigmund Pálffy maďar" and 0 reliable results with "Zigmund Palffy Hungarian". This urban legend lives only in Hungary. If we talk about "Hungarian origin" so we must know who exactly in his family is Hungarian.
 * My thoughts are that if there are no sources saying he is not of Hungarian decent or something similar > This is ridiculous, because we have no sources saying they are not of Hungarian decents also for Marián Hossa, Marián Gáborík etc. All ice hockey players in the world are of "Hungarian descents", because have no sources saying they are not. Now we can to create some essay, obscure articles without references in the Ugandan media and soon we have new "Ugandan origin" ice hockey player. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article. --Omen1229 (talk) 10:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Thehoboclown has provided sources stating that he is of Hungarian decent. What 'Everyone knows' doesn't matter. What matters is what is verifiable. As for the second comment, perhaps I was not clear. What I meant was that there are sources saying that he is of Hungarian decent. That should not be overridden by what 'Everyone knows' or common knowledge. No one is saying that there are sources saying Marian Hossa and Marian Gaborik are on Hungarian decent, therefore no sources are needed to refute what is not claimed. If it is an 'urban legend,' you willing probably be able to find reliable sources refuting it.
 * Secondly, If this dispute is about whether or not the sources are reliable, you may wish to discuss it at WP:RSN rather than here. Eomund (talk) 02:17, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What 'Everyone knows' doesn't matter. > He is Slovak ice hockey player 1 and everyone knows that.
 * What matters is what is verifiable. > This is verifiable and neutral source without urban legends: Throughout his playing career, the Slovak native 2 I don´t see there any information about "Hungarian origin".
 * you willing probably be able to find reliable sources refuting it. > No, I will not search "reliable sources refuting it", but you must "to find reliable sources" who in his family is Hungarian. --Omen1229 (talk) 19:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not know how much clearer I can get what everyone knows does not matter. However, no one is contesting that he is Slovakian. What is being contested is whether or not he is of Hungarian decent. I do, however, agree that the burden of proof is on the person wanting to add the information. So Thehoboclown, what reliable sources do you have that state that Palffy is of Hungarian decent? I know you may have mentioned them earlier but if you don't mind please list them here. Eomund (talk) 01:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem.
 * The history of the Hungarian ice hockey by the Hungarian Ice Hockey Federation, last but one paragraph
 * The International Multicultural Hockey Championship, of which goal is exactly to promote the cultural diversity, and which lists Pálffy who represents the Hungarian heritage in the NHL.
 * Hungary's leading sports paper, Nemzeti Sport's short news about the retirement of Pálffy: About the intention of the 33-years-old Slovak international who is of Hungarian descent were reported by the Slovak papers. ("A szlovák válogatottban szereplő 33 éves magyar származású játékos szándékáról a szlovák lapok tudósítottak.")
 * In an article of Hungarian news channel Inforadio, which talks about the 2010 Winter Olympics: Beside her, two flagbearer who are of Hungarian descent were also processing; the flag of Romania was held by Éva Tófalvi, and the flag of Slovakia by Zigmund Pálffy. ("Rajta kívül még két magyar származású zászlóvivő is felvonult; Románia lobogóját a biatlonos Tófalvi Éva, Szlovákia zászlaját pedig a jégkorongozó Zigmund Pálffy vitte.") (Last paragraph.)
 * Blikk (Hungarian daily, published by Ringier), which says "The Slovak hockey player who is of Hungarian descent, Zigmund Pálffy, the Czech Olympic gold medalist goaltender Roman Céchmánek, and the bronze medalist Martin Erat were his team mates on the gala match." ("A magyar származású szlovák világbajnok hokis, Zigmund Pálffy (37), a cseh olimpiai aranyérmes kapus, Roman Céchmánek (38) és a bronzérmes Martin Erat (27) volt a csapattársa a gálamérkőzésen.).
 * Hungarian weekly Hetek wrote the following: Currently employed by the Los Angeles King Zigmund Pálffy, who is Slovak international, but also have Hungarian ancestors. ("Jelenleg a Los Angeles Kings alkalmazottja Zigmund Pálffy, aki szlovák válogatott, de szintén magyar felmenőktől származik.)
 * Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 11:43, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I do not know Hungarian so I cannot evaluate those sources, but thank you for the list, Thehoboclown. Omen1229 what do you have to say about these sources? Do you hold to your claim that they are all part of the conspiracy? Eomund (talk) 19:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Conspiracy? This is parody. The sources: essay, poor site with names Jarmir Jagar, Manny Moholtra... and obscure Hungarian articles with urban legends. This is verifiable and neutral source without original research: Throughout his playing career, the Slovak native. The definition of native: Being such by birth or origin. I don´t see there any information about "Hungarian origin". Please write me who in his family is Hungarian. --Omen1229 (talk) 13:49, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

No one is denying that he is a native of Slovakia native. What is being debated is whether or not he has Hungarian ancestors. We are not saying that he does not have Slovakia ancestors as it is possible that these are both true. As for name who the Hungarian is that is not necessary. But let me just clarify. You are saying that all six of his sources are unreliable? Do you have a reliable source saying he is not of Hungarian decent? A person does not have only one country of decent. I am Canadian, but I am of English, Scottish, German and Norwegian descent. Eomund (talk) 01:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Btw. according to Pálffy himself from the Blikk article linked above: "For Talma [Gábor Talmácsi] roots Zigmund Pálffy as well, who says he is half Hungarian by his father's side." ("Talmáért szorít Zigmund Pálffy is, aki édesapja révén félig magyarnak mondja magát.") – Thehoboclown (talk) 11:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Blikk? Tabloid journalism tends to emphasize topics such as sensational crime stories, astrology, gossip columns about the personal lives of celebrities and sports stars, and junk food news. Gossip is idle talk or rumour about the personal or private affairs of others. It is one of the oldest and most common means of sharing facts and views, but also has a reputation for the introduction of errors and variations into the information transmitted. A rumor is often viewed as "an unverified account or explanation of events circulating from person to person and pertaining to an object, event, or issue in public concern". Please provide high quality and neutral sources. --Omen1229 (talk) 14:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, whatever you call it, there is no rumour or gossip in that article just simply what Pálffy personally said. But for a last one time, as it was pointed out many time earlier, the ball is on your side: if you question the reliability of the sources then list them on the reliable sources noticeboard. Or, give sources which say he is not of Hungarian descent. Unless doing so, and making unsupported claims that it's an urban legend, a hoax or whatever, won't help to find a solution and this talk is stuck at this point. – Thehoboclown (talk) 15:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Omen1229, please review WP:Point. As Thehoboclown says the burden of proof is on you to prove the sources are unreliable. You had a dispute with Thehoboclown and asked for a third opinion. I am trying to assume good faith but you seem persistent in pushing your POV rather than having the article say what the sources say. Remember, in wikipedia what is true doesn't matter, verifiability does. The sources provide by Thehoboclown verify that he is of Hungarian decent. You have no sources that say otherwise. Eomund (talk) 03:31, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I reviewed WP:Point, what examples do you mean exactly? I see only: If you feel that a particular source does not meet Wikipedia standards.. Do express your concerns on the talk pages of articles which cite it, or at the reliable sources noticeboard. Do not add even more references to the source, with hopes of provoking opposition to its use.
 * As Thehoboclown says the burden of proof is on you to prove the sources are unreliable. > This is a manipulation. I edited article, I didn´t delete information about "Hungarian origin", I added only multiple issues: This article's references may not meet Wikipedia's guidelines for reliable sources. Please help by checking whether the references meet the criteria for reliable sources. This is clear statement. Everyone can help by checking whether the references meet the criteria for reliable sources. Not only me. You deleted it and it does not look that you are trying to assume good faith. Your POV is dubious. You're still talking about verifiability, but not about reliable sources especially for living persons. You also ignore my opinions on resources of Thehoboclown.
 * The sources provide by Thehoboclown verify that he is of Hungarian decent. You have no sources that say otherwise. > I do not understand this statement. Is this your POV? I wrote neutral source already... --Omen1229 (talk) 08:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

As to WP:POINT, I was referring to your adding a excessive number of tags simply because there is a single fact that you do not believe is accurate even though it is supported by sources. It is becoming harder to assume good faith as you are consistently trying to push your viewpoint. You and Thehoboclown had a dispute and asked for a 3O. I have given and you are continuing to work against it. My POV is that the article is that the article should say what reliable sources say. If you do not think the sources are reliable, please take it up at WP:RSN and not here as that will just be edit warring. Perhaps you are right about some of the sources, but they are not all unreliable, especially when viewed collectively. As for your last statement, which of your sources denies that is of Hungarian decent. Eomund (talk) 18:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * As to WP:POINT, I was referring to your adding a excessive number of tags simply because there is a single fact that you do not believe is accurate even though it is supported by sources. > I reviewed WP:Point and I don´t see rule for "a excessive number of tags". "Single fact" may have multiple issues. For you, single fact = single issue?
 * It is becoming harder to assume good faith as you are consistently trying to push your viewpoint. > Please don´t edit article if it is becoming harder to assume good faith for you. You deleted again issues and it does not look that you are trying to assume good faith. Please read when to remove this tag.
 * If you do not think the sources are reliable, please take it up at WP:RSN and not here as that will just be edit warring. > Everyone can help by checking whether the references meet the criteria for reliable sources. Not only me. --Omen1229 (talk) 15:23, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know what else to say Thehoboclown and you had a dispute and asked for a third opinion. You refuse to listen to that opinion and continue to push your POV. Please do not continue to add an excesive number of tags because there is one fact you disagree with that is supported by multiple sources.
 * You said, Everyone can help by checking whether the references meet the criteria for reliable sources. Not only me. I agree. Thehoboclown and I checked the sources and found they to be reliable. Especially considering that you have yet to produce a single source to contradict them. Eomund (talk) 03:08, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Your third opinion is dubious, because on talk page are: user 78.141.102.191, Pedroeu, now Samofi and also me. If no agreement can be reached on the talk page and only two editors are involved, follow the directions below to list the dispute. If more than two editors are involved, 3O is not appropriate. See Third opinion: How to list a dispute.
 * You refuse to listen to that opinion and continue to push your POV > My POV? I didn´t delete info about Hungarian origin, but you deleted two times neutral source. So who continue to push any POV?
 * Please do not continue to add an excesive number of tags because there is one fact you disagree with that is supported by multiple sources. > Multiple issues for one fact are not unlawful in wiki. Please read when to remove this tag.
 * Thehoboclown and I checked the sources and found they to be reliable. > Remember that Wikipedia works by consensus, not a vote. Did you use WP:RSN?
 * Especially considering that you have yet to produce a single source to contradict them. > And what is your source? Unreliable and not neutral sources only from Hungary. --Omen1229 (talk) 19:09, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

I am not going to say too much because arguing about this kind of thing is unproductive. But looking at most of those references I wouldn't call them all that reliable. They all come from Hungry and are all likely cannibalizing each other. At least one is a blog. Can you not find any sources from say outside Hungry that support your position? As it is, its in the Hungarian federations best interest to say he was Hungarian as it makes them look better. As it stands I would not include the information in the article as it is dubious at best. -DJSasso (talk) 23:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Consensus seems to be that it should be removed. ThereforeI shall remove it. Eomund (talk) 02:57, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Ziggy
Guys, no offence, but you must be kidding by saying Ziggy is of hungarian origin. What that means? What is this information good for? He is a slovak, speaks slovak, his parents are slovaks as well as his grandparents were. What about asking him directly about that? Would that be an reliable source? Ill do my best to put some video on youtube where he do some clear statement on this. But honesly hungarian nationalist media would be a more reliable source then Ziggy himself anyway. Do you know what research did those hungarian journalist etc. that they claim he is of hungarian origin? Or they just based this on a common "true" mistakenly believed in hungary? Ziggy would be really laughing on this. This is really ridiculous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pedroeu (talk • contribs) 20:19, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Hi, welcome to wikipedia. If you ask him directly and then report it here, it would not be a reliable source. However, if he was asked and his response was published in a reliable source then it would be okay to add. Eomund (talk) 01:34, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Living persons may publish material about themselves, such as through press releases or personal websites. Such material may be used as a source only if:
 * it is not unduly self-serving;
 * it does not involve claims about third parties;
 * it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
 * there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity;
 * the article is not based primarily on such sources.
 * See WP:SELFPUB --Omen1229 (talk) 13:22, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Its precedent to mention the origin in the top of article
We have here evidently not neutral and unscholar source about his origin. Article is not based on primary sources and it looks like a propaganda of Hungarian ice-hockey. Same case like in the article about Martina Hingis. Its was used source about her hungarian origin from hungarian nationalistic organization: http://www.americanhungarianfederation.org/FamousHungarians//sports.htm Wiki community told that source is reliable, but I was searching and there is written: The American Hungarian Federation® does not necessarily endorse the content or opinions expressed by its individual members and member organizations. So its completely POV by nationalistic author of this article. "She was born in Kassa in Northern Hungary", its clear nationalistic revisionism and all article is propaganda for sheeps. She was born in Czechoslovakia, in Kosice. I cannot imagine that in the top of article about Wayne Gretzky it would be written: Canadian ice hockey player of Ukrainian, Belorussian and Polish origin. It has nothing to do with his playing career. A both sources are free to edit, so for example Thehoboclown could push there a fake information and now he push it to Wikipedia. I have origin in Skalica and I know, that his family is Slovak. Maybe his grand-grand-grand father was Hungarian and surname survived. But surname Palffy can be magyarized version of south slavic surname Palović.. Surname endings "fy", "czi" were often endings of magyarized slavic names with endings "ski", "ský", "ič".. Iam asking, which ancestor of Palffy was Hungarian and is it important to mention it in the top of article? So now we can add origin to 5th generation of all US and Canadian sportsmen? For example Brian Smolinski or Joe Pawelski and milion next with polish surname? This hungarian nationalistic propagandistic activities over the Wikipedia are sick and they are groveing to the monstrous dimensions.. After few years it will all Slovaks of Hungarian origin because before 1918 its was Slovakia part of Hungarian kingdom.. Please is it any neutral inteligent admin who has an interest to solve this disputes? --Samofi (talk) 08:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe his grand-grand-grand father was Hungarian and surname survived. But surname Palffy can be magyarized version of south slavic surname Palović > It also can be version of Slovak surname Pálfi and magyarized in 19. century. --Omen1229 (talk) 19:10, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

His Hungarian origin is mentioned only in Hungary
I did not find any info about his "Hungarian origin" on Slovak pages, also none English reliable site. So please provide high quality and neutral sources especially with references about his "Hungarian origin", who are "Hungarian ancestors" in his family or provide oficial statement of Žigmund Pálffy. --Omen1229 (talk) 19:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
 * My 2 cents, and I'm not going to get drawn into a long debate after this: I've been working on hockey articles for a long time, and we mostly focus on 2 biographical pieces of data: where a player was born (country at time of birth, ie Soviet Union vs Russia) and his nationality which is most easily defined as the country he respresents in IIHF tournaments. The first is usually straightforward, the second is debatable at times but we have a guideline somewhere with criteria set in place by concensus. Whats happening here is someone is trying to set in the 3 piece of data that usually doesn't end well: ethnicity. We get it with Irish-American hockey players, Italian-Canadians, First Nation-Canadians, etc, etc. A lot of times its just by assumption based on surname, sometimes its by some one line reference in some obscure article. Its stirs up a lot of needless debate over a something that in most cases did't do much to define the player (in the cases that it did, the sources to back it up are plentiful). Its just not worth it. TerminalPreppie (talk) 21:13, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Pálffy origin has no ancient basis to be Slovak, it is Hungarian
It is unfortunate that arguments are being made without respecting language, grammar and history. With due respect, Pálfi is not a Slovak name "magyarized" as phonetically it already contains grammar and indicators of Hungarian origin. The "i" in a typical Hungarian gentry name is an indicator to show "of" such as "of the town" or "of the place". Slovak language does not possess this agglutinative value in language composition. Also, Pálffy does have ancient roots in ancient Hungarian history as it is the surname of a noble/aristocratic family. Hungarian tradition, when a surname ends in an "i" vowels and a family is promoted to a noble status, then the vowel "i" is changed to "y" to indicate the families' nobility. (Linguistic knowledge) 21:01, 13 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:6E2A:9999:5118:67F6:C672:211 (talk)

title: Talk:Žigmund Pálffy


text:
Talk:Miroslav Šatan

IPA
Can we please get a consensus on the IPA of the Slovak pronounciation of Miroslav. It seems to me that the last letter is pronounced, in proper Slovak, either as a 'v' or something resembling a 'u' sound, not an 'f' sound as some editors appear to insist. 'f' might be correct in Czech or Russian or even some Slovak dialects (such as the hard dialect around Trnava), but it's not how Slovak is properly pronounced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.153.55 (talk) 01:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

to User:JB82: You put the north american pronunciation as /ˈʃətæn/. Am I mistaken or the stress cannot fall to the syllable with /ə/ in English? I have to admit I never heard a north-american pronounce his name, but I'd guess it would be /ʃəˈtæn/, stress on the second syllable. rado 08:24, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right. Fixed in article. But for the sake of completeness, a brief digression on /ˈə/: Merriam-Webster print dictionaries tend to use the symbol \ə\ to represent both phonemes /ʌ/ (when accented) and /ə/ (when not accented), possibly because dialects realize the phoneme /ʌ/ anywhere in [ʌ], [ə], or [ ɜ] (the last of which represents my own idiolect). --Damian Yerrick (☎) 02:06, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand how there can be no mention whatsover in the artcile about the reactions in North America after first seeing a player with "Satan" on his back. This is not a small detail it needs to be mentioned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.171.233.70 (talk) 03:44, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Move wars
Jurohi: Naming conventions (hockey) claims that in an article title on English Wikipedia, any spelling of an ice hockey player's name that contains a diacritic is deemed incorrect in most cases:
 * Convention: Hockey article titles should avoid the use of diacritics and other non-English characters.

This has nothing to do with whether the legal name is or is not spelled with a diacritic. Or do you justify your moves by appealing to the "General exception"? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 21:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * That's also NOT a convention since it has not reached consensus. If one wants to intentionally misspell a name (meaning it is different from the original), one needs to prove it is the most common spelling in the English language. Then it is acceptable. In this case, I do not know whether it should apply. Look at the Google results: . Bayerischermann 04:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In cases where there are very few English sources that use a spelling with diacritics compared to very many that do not use them, I'm strongly in favor of using the spelling that is common in English sources. Croctotheface 10:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The general idea (these days), seems to be this: Have each individual Players page decide for itself (to use diacriticals or not). This leaves many 'European' NHL players pages inconsistant, but it's best (avoids edit wars). GoodDay 22:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

His jersey is spelled Satan. East-European diacritics are not normally used in English.--67.219.254.84 (talk) 21:13, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

 * His jersey is spelled like that, but that's only because none of the jerseys in the NHL have any diacritical marks on them. Many other Wikipedia articles about players with hačeks in their names (Jiří Hudler, Dominik Hašek, and many others) have the mark included.  When you consider that removing the hacek makes Miroslav look like he's related to Lucifer, I say keep it in. Mark Yaima (talk) 15:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Miro wasn't "The Boogeyman"
Miroslav Satan's nickname was never "The Boogeyman." That was Bob Boughner's nickname.

Player named after the devil
I find it funny that his last name is the devil's name. Someone's last name being satan is beyond me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.151.61 (talk) 22:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * hm, does somebody know if "satan" has the same meaning in the slovak language?--Severino (talk) 10:33, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably. See http://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan J 1982 (talk) 19:09, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Satan is not the same word as Šatan though. According to the Historic dictionary of slovak, "šatan" is a no longer used name for stork (the bird) http://slovniky.korpus.sk/?w=%C5%A1atan&c=Rffd — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.105.164.36 (talk) 13:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

 * But interestingly, he has profile ID 666 on several websites. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 12:11, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Slovak-American
Seems that Wiki wants it this way, why not to oficially change the entry to "Slovak-American"? I mean he does have US citizenship. And Wiki seems to be changing that, no matter what the ethnicity is. I mean they changed that info with Igor Korolev. The guy was 100% Russian, yet Wiki dumbasses wanted it to be "Russian-canadian". Wiki just contradicts itself...Norum 08:05, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.hcslovan.sk/Default.aspx?CatID=48&NewsID=3673
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130927123344/http://www.iihf.com/competition/352/news/news-singleview-2013/browse/11/recap/7785.html/ to http://www.iihf.com/competition/352/news/news-singleview-2013/browse/11/recap/7785.html/

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title: Talk:Miroslav Šatan


text: Template:Inner Mongolia

title: Template:Inner Mongolia


text:
KXTV/KOVR/KCRA Tower

KXTV/KOVR/KCRA Tower is a 472.1 m guy-wired aerial mast for the transmission of FM radio and television programs in Walnut Grove, California. Construction began on the KOVR/KCRA Tower in 1959, and the tower was completed in 1961. At that time it was one of the tallest structures in the world.

When built, it stood alone as a landmark visible from great distances, so for years it was popularly known as The Walnut Grove Tower. It is also known as Transtower. Three taller masts have since been constructed in the area that tend to be more visible because their white strobe lighting catches the eye more readily than the older tower's more traditional red lighting—though this tower is the only one painted red and white. The newer towers in the area are all simple vertical steel, but this older tower has a distinctive triangular "candelabra" platform at the top that reflects the original purpose of the tower as a world-class transmission facility for the three major stations then covering the Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto media market. One corner of the triangle held the antenna for KCRA (since moved to the taller Hearst-Argyle Tower), and the other two held the antennas of KOVR and KXTV (since moved to the taller KXTV/KOVR Tower), which is also a candelabra, though with a less wide top than this one. KCRA-TV began transmitting from this tower in January 1962. KXTV is no longer a partner or tenant on the tower.

KXTV filmed portions of its 1964 "KXTV Country" promotion atop the tower. The station's top manager addressed viewers from a tower platform. Also aloft, a musician sang a rendition of the '49er chanty "Banks of the Sacramento" which was modified to refer to the tower: "High in a tower in the western sky."

Current tenants

 * KSPX-TV Ch. 29/48
 * KCRA Ch. 3/35 (Backup site)
 * KMAX Ch 31/21 (backup site)
 * KOVR Ch 13/25 (backup site)
 * KEAR-FM 88.1&;MHz

title: KXTV/KOVR/KCRA Tower


text: Talk:Centrus Energy

title: Talk:Centrus Energy


text:
Talk:Peter Šťastný

Ethnic Origin
I'm rather startled you think the players' situations remotely comparable, Yankees76. Mikita emigrated as a boy and never played a lick of organized hockey in Slovakia. Stasny defected as an adult after playing years for Czechslovakia, both domestically and internationally, and played internationally for Canada during a period where he was a wanted criminal in his homeland for defecting. By contrast to Stasny serving as a Slovakian MEP, any assertion by Mikita of his embrace of Slovakian identity's been marked by any public evidence of it. Ravenswing 21:09, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

 * But that's not the debate. Mikita is the first European-born player to reach 1000 points. He was born Stanislaus Guoth in Sokolce, Slovakia. He's a member of the Slovakian Hockey Hall of Fame. The NHL Hockey Hall of Fame has him listed as Slovakia's all-time points leader. Both Stastny and Mikita reached 1000 points when they were Canadian citizens. I can't see how you can insert Stastny as the first European to get 1000 unless maybe you squeeze him in as the first European-trained player to reach that plateau.Yankees76 21:41, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

 * And just for fun, here's a pic of Stan standing with his Slovak Hall of Fame plaque http://www.slovakspectator.sk/vydania/2004048/photo/12.jpg. Public evidence ;) Yankees76 22:35, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Wow, quick convo... I agree with Ravenswing on this one, Mikita was 8 and immigrated legally with his parents to Canada, while Statsny was 24 and his only country was Canada, although when Slovakia broke off of Czechoslovakia, he played for the Slovak Olympic team in 1994 and is their current GM. Mikita changed his name when he moved with his aunt and uncle and played for Canada in the 1972 Summit Series. Now it might be fair to say that Mikita is Slovak and Canadian, but Stastny is wholly Slovak. [[Image:Flag of Croatia.svg|20px]] Croat Canuck  [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] 03:43, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Mikita didn'timmigrate with his parents - he was adopted by his aunt and uncle and took their name. So maybe - we've figured out flag goes on his Wikipedia HOF plaque. By the way, Mikita also has US citizenship. And lives there. He's about as Canadian as Lennox Lewis. In other words, he was born outside of Canada, was raised there from a young age, but not birth, represented Canada internationally and then moved out of Canada to reside in another country - where he has raised a family. Ravenswing is adding to this profile that Stastny was the first non-Canadian to score 1000 points. My problem with that is that he's creating a usesless stat - generally players are grouped with their place of birth - ie: American-born, European-born - when talking about hockey landmarks. It's like adding that Mike Modano was the first left-handed player from Michigan to record 10 points agains the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's pointless. Mikita is the first European born player to score 1000 points. Stastny is the second. It's pretty simple really. It's an interesting footnote that Mikita really didn't play hockey in Slovakia or for Slovakia - but that's about it. Yankees76 04:05, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

What's in a name
Peter Stastny's name is shown in diacriticals, yet his sons Paul & Yan aren't. Should father & sons names be spelt the same (diacriticals or not) ? GoodDay 18:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * With diacritics or without diacritics would be correct, at least in some sense, for Peter; it is never incorrect to use the English alphabet when writing in English. With diacritics would probably not be correct for his sons, who never had them.  Gene Nygaard 21:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * However, that "in some sense" doesn't answer the question of what is the proper spelling to occupy the one slot available for the article's name under our naming conventions.

 * This article was recently moved by User:Darwinek with no discussion, and without providing any good reason for making the move, with no mention whatsoever of the criteria for choosing an articles name and no evidence supporting a change. Darwinek has a long history of making such undiscussed, unsupported moves.
 * Furthermore, Darwinek did a sloppy, half-assed job in making this move. He jumped in there and made the undiscussed move of the article to Peter Šťastný, but he left this talk page where it still is at Talk:Peter Stastny.
 * That improper, undiscussed move should be reverted, and the article put back where it belongs at the name under which he is best known in English, Peter Stastny, the name under which he played all his NHL games, and the name he routinely used in the United States and Canada. That's what our naming conventions call for; not some misguided notion of "correctness" of a hypothetical, unreferenced supposition of what it would have been in the language of the country in which he was born.  There aren't even any references whatsoever in the article to show that the current spelling of the article name was ever used by anybody, and even if there were, all that would really mean is that the variant spelling should be mentioned in the introduction of the article.  It does not mean that that spelling would be the proper choice for the article name under our naming conventions. Gene Nygaard 21:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Paul and Yan were both born in Quebec City, right? They're no more Slovak than any other children of immigrants.  That being said, I agree completely with Gene, and have long wished that diacritics be completely eliminated from Wikipedia except in instances where they are demonstrably in common (and majority) use in the English language.  Ravenswing 22:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've moved this page back to Peter Stastny, there never was a disccusion to move it to the diacriticals. Furthermoe, I've become a little dissapointed with Darwinek's page moving methods. He's moved alot of pages (not just hockey related) to diacritical titles, without discussing such changes beforehand. GoodDay 22:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've reverted another move to the name with diacritics back to plain old Stastny. This seems to be the usage by BBC, New York Times, Hockey Database, and so forth.  Consensus above, although old, seems to favor Stastny.  Further moves should not be done without discussion. Erudy (talk) 07:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, further moves should not have been done without discussion. --Krm500 (talk) 09:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Put it back to diacritics where the current agreement is to have him placed. Player pages are to continue having diacritics whereas NHL related pages are to not have them.. -Djsasso (talk) 18:58, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I am in Slovakia and I got the candidates list for the European Elections posted to me by the government today. He's filled in the form and is standing as Peter Šťastný so there is no debate about what spelling of his name he uses in Slovakia. His kids presumably don't have the diacritics on their birth certificate whereas he does. Whether or not they should be copied over into and English text is a matter for style. The two politics sections need to be merged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.212.36.188 (talk) 23:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Best player to never...
...score 50 goals in a season? I can't think of anyone else this good who never hit that mark. Dagnabbitt 05:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I could. Gordie Howe, off the top of my head.  (If such discussions were pertinent here, which they aren't.) Ravenswing 13:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Bobby Orr never scored 50 either. ;) Yankees76 15:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Scoring 1000 points in a decade
The article previously said:

2nd player in NHL history to record 1000 or more points in one decade (1119 in the 1980s).

There are a couple of problems here. First, he scored 1119 points from 1980-81 through 1990-91, but the 1980s should certainly exclude the 1990-91 season. So I have changed his decade total to 1059 points, which was his total from 1980-81 through 1989-90. Secondly, strictly speaking, he wasn't the second player to accomplish this feat. The first was Phil Esposito, who scored 1087 points from 1970-71 through 1979-80. Four players topped 1000 points from 1980-81 to 1989-90 - Gretzky (1842), Stastny (1059), Kurri (1043), and Savard (1013). Gretzky had already exceeded 1000 points for the decade by the end of the 1985-86 season, so Gretzky clearly was the second to accomplish this. I reworded things a bit to reflect this. Dsreyn (talk) 16:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Jersey Number Retired?
How could his number 26 be retired in Quebec? He played in the 94-95 Playoffs with St. Louis, losing in 6 games to Vancouver in the second round. After being eliminated from the playoffs, Stastny announcend his retirement. Problem is this, Quebec was eliminated in the opening round in 6 games to the defending champion New York Rangers. After being eliminated, Quebec announced on May 25, 1995 that they were sold and would move to Denver. The Nordiques were no more, and Stastny was still playing in the playoffs. So how could they have retired his number? Even if it would have happened, the Avalanche showed a complete lack of class unretiring the retired Nordiques numbers.

Reverting edit in political career section
The change is minor but the newer version uses less neutral language and also contains a factual error, as Stastny wasn't in anyway a close second to Kukan who got 80244 personal preferences to Stastny's 41847. If the author insists on putting something complimentary there, he could mention that Stastny was comfortably elected in second place as the third (non-elected) guy got 11613 votes.

title: Talk:Peter Šťastný


text:
Talk:Dual-layer recording

VFD
On 3 April 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was merge and redirect to DVD. See Votes for deletion/Dual layer recording for a record of the discussion. – ABCD 22:18, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

SACD?
Look at Special:Whatlinkshere/Dual_layer_recording... at least The_Downward_Spiral does so in the context of a 'SACD'. The article doesn't discuss these, however. The VFD discussion seems to suggest that this article is only related to DVD... -- Jon Dowland 21:45, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dual-layer recording