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Mega Man 8

Mega Man 8 is a platform game developed and released by Capcom in 1996. It was directed by Hayato Kaji and produced by Keiji Inafune, both of whom had previously worked on the series as artists. It is the eighth installment in the original Mega Man series, and was initially released in Japan on the PlayStation in 1996. The following year, Mega Man 8 saw a release on the Sega Saturn and was localized for both consoles in North America and the PlayStation alone in PAL regions. Mega Man 8 is the first game in the series made available on 32-bit consoles. The plot follows series protagonist Mega Man as he is called to investigate an energy reading coming from a recent meteor crash on an island. Mega Man discovers that his nemesis Dr. Wily has run off with the energy source, and sets off to stop Wily's evil plans to use the energy, and to discover the purpose of a mysterious alien robot found at the crash site.

Mega Man 8 has improved graphics and sound over previous iterations in the series, as well as new full-motion video and voice acting. Aside from a few minor conventions, the game has the same 2D side-scrolling and platform game formula established by its predecessors on the Nintendo Entertainment System and Super NES platforms. It received a moderately positive reception. Many reviewers appreciated the game's aesthetics and gameplay qualities when compared to its earlier counterparts, but several other critics were displeased by its lack of innovation and felt that it did not utilize the full potential of the 32-bit platforms. Additionally, the English-language version of the game received considerable criticism for its voice acting, which was perceived by many as being comically poor-quality. The game was a moderate commercial success and was re-released on best-seller lines in Japan and North America.

Mega Man 8 was followed by Mega Man & Bass, a 1998 spin-off game for the Super Famicom which reused several of the game's assets and characters. A true sequel to the game, Mega Man 9, would not be released until 2008, and would revert to the graphical and gameplay style of the early NES games.

Gameplay
The gameplay of Mega Man 8 is similar to that of its predecessors. The player, as Mega Man, must complete various stages that contain side-scrolling action and platforming elements. The player can run, jump, slide, shoot, swim, charge the Mega Buster, and change weapons. Enemies can be destroyed to reveal items used to refill Mega Man's health and weapon power. Like Mega Man 7, the player first completes an introductory stage and is then presented with four Robot Master stages (Tengu Man, Frost Man, Grenade Man, and Clown Man) to tackle in any order. At the end of each stage is a boss battle with a Robot Master; defeating the Robot Master earns the player its Master Weapon. Most Robot Masters are weak to either the Mega Buster or one or more Master Weapon, allowing for some strategy in the order the stages are completed. An additional four Robot Masters (Aqua Man, Sword Man, Search Man, and Astro Man) become available once the first four are defeated and an intermission stage is completed.

An addition to gameplay in Mega Man 8 is the ability to display and use multiple weapons onscreen simultaneously. This change introduces a unique way of using weapons strategically. For example, Mega Man can place a Tornado Hold, jump into it and swing the Flame Sword while rising with the air current. The player also has the ability to use the Mega Buster at all times, even when equipped with a Master Weapon. The player can buy new abilities from Roll in Dr. Light's lab in exchange for special bolts found throughout the levels. However, due to a limited number of bolts and powerup slots available, the player must carefully decide which power-ups to buy. Power-ups utilizing Mega Man's dog Rush are won by fighting mid-stage minibosses. Such Rush items include Rush Question, giving the player a random pickup, Rush Charger, which makes pickups rain from the skies, and Rush Bike, used to cross large gaps.

Plot
Taking place in the 21st century and after the events of Mega Man 7 (the ambiguous year 20XX), two alien robots engage in a battle in the depths of space. Ultimately, both of them plummet towards Earth, critically injured. On Earth, humanoid robot Mega Man and his robot canine companion Rush are caught in a skirmish with his rival Bass, who still wants to prove himself to be stronger than Mega Man. Thanks to the timely intervention of his sister Roll, who was bringing a message from his creator Dr. Light, Mega Man manages to subdue Bass long enough to leave. Bass swears that he will get back at Mega Man for his "cowardice". Dr. Light asks Mega Man to investigate strange energy readings on a nearby island. On the island, Mega Man finds Dr. Wily flying away with a strange purple orb. Before chasing him, he sees a damaged robot and asks for Dr. Light to pick it up and try to repair it. Dr. Wily then releases four new advanced and modern Robot Masters to combat Mega Man: Frost Man, Tengu Man, Clown Man, and Grenade Man. Each time he destroys one, he receives a purple orb like the one Dr. Wily captured. Each of the Robot Masters are empowered with a strange energy, and it seems that this power comes from the new energy cores that Wily has infused them with.

After Mega Man defeats the four Robot Masters, he returns to the lab and brings Dr. Light the energy cores he retrieved; Dr. Light examines them and realizes that they are a powerful form of energy, which Dr. Wily must not have in his possession. After they leave the lab, the robot awakens and sees the energy cores, becoming enraged and flies off into the distance. Mega Man follows him to a mine shaft on the other side of the globe. After battling the robot, Proto Man shows up and tells Mega Man that Dr. Wily's new fortress, "Wily Tower," is just ahead. Mega Man goes there but is captured by one of Wily's giant robotic creations. The robot saves him and introduces himself as Duo. Duo explains to Mega Man that the purple orbs are "Evil Energy" and he has been traveling the universe, tracking down this energy and trying to destroy it before it engulfs the entire world. However, Wily Tower has a barrier around it that prevents him from taking out the source. Duo tells Mega Man to destroy the four other Robot Masters that hold the key to the barrier (Astro Man, Sword Man, Search Man, and Aqua Man), while he collects and extinguishes the rest of the world's Evil Energy.

Once the remaining Robot Masters are defeated, Wily Tower's barrier is lifted and Mega Man makes his way through it, defeating the hordes of robotic henchmen inside, including Bass, who uses a piece of the Evil Energy to amplify his powers, and ultimately, the evil doctor himself. The "Evil Energy" is destroyed before it is allowed to spread throughout the world, but it manages to infect Mega Man before being destroyed, and Wily's newest compound is demolished with Mega Man inside, who is dying from the Evil Energy. Duo arrives, and seeing the goodness and justice in his heart, cures him of the evil energy, eradicating the last remnants of the Evil Energy on Earth. Proto Man catches up to him; Duo then says that his mission is done, and leaves, but not before asking Proto Man for a favor. Mega Man then wakes up in Dr. Light's Lab and is reunited with Light, Roll and the others who tell him that Duo saved him. He then walks outside and finds Proto Man, who gives him a message from Duo: "Thank You."

Development and release
Mega Man 8 was developed by Capcom. Tokuro Fujiwara, who had been the producer for previous Mega Man titles, had left Capcom, so Keiji Inafune, who had previously played the role of artist for many titles in the series, became a producer for Mega Man 8. He handed off many of the main responsibilities to Hayato Kaji, an artist he often considered to be his student. Inafune recounted, "This allowed me to take a very different approach to creating a Mega Man game. 'Seeing Mega Man from a distance,' I guess you could say." Illustrators including Hideki Ishikawa and Shinsuke Komaki worked under the two veterans. Inafune recounted that the development team was often overwhelmed during the game's development because it involved some unfamiliar elements such as coordinating releases on two new systems and the use of anime cutscenes. The team enlisted the help of animation studio Xebec to produce the animated cutscenes for the game. Inafune had wanted to include animated cutscenes since the very first game in the series, and stated that he was pleased with the outcome.

The character Duo was created specifically for Mega Man 8, but was first made a playable character in the earlier 1996 arcade fighting game Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters. Kaji initially designed Duo as a robot invented by the Mega Man 4 character Dr. Cossack. When it was decided that Duo would instead come from outer space, his appearance changed but still retained remnants of Russian traits, such as his ushanka. Like past games in the series, the Robot Masters were picked from design contests in Japan. Capcom received around 110,000 idea submissions. For the contest, Capcom prepared drawings showing basic shapes for entrants to base their designs on, such as a bipedal top-heavy base with two heads; three of the final designs (Sword Man, Clown Man, and Search Man) were based on these. Ishikawa recounted, "The submissions we'd get for the boss characters were absolutely brimming with the youthful imagination of kids. I still remember how everyone had permanent smiles painted on their faces as we looked at each and every one of the submissions that came through." Tengu Man and Astro Man had already been designed by Capcom prior to the contest.

The musical score for Mega Man 8 was composed by Shusaku Uchiyama. It was the first project at Capcom that Uchiyama led himself. The Japanese version of the game features the J-pop vocal opening theme "Electrical Communication" and the ending theme "Brand New Way" by the group Ganasia. Mega Man 8 was released in Japan on the PlayStation on December 17, 1996 and the Sega Saturn on January 17, 1997. Sony initially rejected the North American PlayStation release due to the push for 3D graphics on the market at the time, but seeing that their then-competitor Saturn was soon getting its own version of the game, Sony decided to approve it on the condition that it have exclusive content so as not to give an advantage to Sega, resulting in the first editions (branded as the Anniversary Collector's Edition) being enclosed with a collector's 12-page full-color anthology booklet to commemorate the series' 10th anniversary. The two versions of the game, however, are not identical. The Saturn version has two added bosses from previous Mega Man games and a bonus mode with official and fan artwork, voice and music tests, and a secret animation test for the cutscenes. Music tracks slightly differ in arrangement between the PlayStation and Saturn versions, two remixes were added for the extra bosses, and Tengu Man's stage music is completely different between versions. Numerous pieces of merchandise were made available for purchase in Japan alongside the game including action figures, gashapon toys, stationary, vinyl records, and furniture. A 43-track disc containing the instrumental music was released by Team Entertainment later in 2007. Mega Man 8 was published in North America by Capcom on both the PlayStation and Sega Saturn, with the PlayStation version releasing in January 1997 and the Saturn release following two months later. In Europe, the game was supposed to be published by Laguna Video Games, a German game publisher who published a majority of Capcom's titles for the SNES in Europe, but in July 1997 Infogrames acquired Laguna's owner Philips Multimedia BV, and so they instead published the game in October 1997, exclusively for the PlayStation.

Reception
Initial sales of Mega Man 8 were good. Major gaming retailers in North America including Electronics Boutique and Babbage's reported selling 55% of their stock within three days of the game's release. Electronics Boutique additionally noted having sold 75% of its stock within ten days, and many locations of Babbage's being sold out in similar period of time. Capcom's president Bill Gardner later announced that the response they got from retailers was so overwhelming they had to allocate product based on orders being greater than anticipated.

Mega Man 8 received moderately positive reviews from critics. One complaint involved the game having virtually nothing in terms of gameplay or features that had not already appeared in previous installments of the series, and very little change in the gameplay formula that had been used since the first Mega Man game appeared a decade ago. Jeff Gerstmann of GameSpot commented that the robots seem to be clones of enemies from earlier, while Matt Rubenstein summarized his reviews, "this whole premise has been done seven times before and [...] it's starting to get old." In contrast, Crispin Boyer of Electronic Gaming Monthly, while agreeing it did not add anything new, still gave praise for its controls and bosses. Some claimed that the game's graphics did not utilize the abilities of fifth generation consoles outside of the FMV cutscenes. The English-dubbing voice acting in Mega Man 8 was considered some of the worst in video games by publications including EGM, IGN, and the Australian television show Good Game.

In 2010, IGN's Lucas M. Thomas took a similar look back on the franchise, calling Mega Man 8 the worst in the core Mega Man series because it took Capcom's iconic hero off of Nintendo consoles, utilized animated cutscenes with bad voice acting, and further changed the visual style. GamesRadar named Mega Man 8 the 23rd best Sega Saturn game of all time out of a list of 25.

Legacy
In 1998, Capcom released Mega Man & Bass on the Super Famicom with many of the same sprites, animations, and backgrounds as taken from Mega Man 8. Ten years later, Capcom announced another follow-up, Mega Man 9, which changed the graphical style of the series back to its 8-bit appearance similar to the first six installments. Capcom did not replicate any of the gameplay gimmicks included in the eighth installment for this sequel, save for the shop and bolt currency system.

In 2002, the PlayStation version of Mega Man 8 was re-released as part of Sony's Greatest Hits label of bestsellers, confirming that it had sold at least 350,000 units. In Japan, the game received budget re-releases as part of both the PlayStation the Best for Family and the Sega Saturn Collection. The PlayStation version was ported to the North American Mega Man Anniversary Collection for the PlayStation 2 and GameCube in 2004 and the Xbox in 2005. The PlayStation version was later ported again and released as part of Mega Man Legacy Collection 2 on the PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and Microsoft Windows, with a later digital version released on the Nintendo Switch in May 2018.

title: Mega Man 8


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Talk:List of Saturday Night Live cast members

A Few Changes
I made a few changes to the list. Hope you don't mind:
 * First off, I think it's imortant to recognize and have one list of the orginal cast, just for monumental sake.
 * The most major change: I've made it so that it went by 5-year periods and stayed more consistant regarding that division. Most fans tend to divide the show into "eras" (early 80s, late 90s, etc...) so I think it makes the list much more logical.
 * I also included the current cast into their respecive "starting point" lists as well as the "current" list. It's a bit redundant, but I think it will make sense to the viewers, who can clearly see when each cast member started and with whom; and also who is in the current cast.
 * I added spaces between the dashes regarding each cast member's tenure. Also for current cast members, I changed the "-Present" to just a blank space.  This is technically proper, and makes the numbers look less cluttered, therefore much easier to read.
 * I think it's important to differentiate between major cast members and those minor ones who were merely featured for a year or two, and writers who sometimes perform (i.e. for all intents and purposes, one could say that Al Franken has been on the show for 12 seasons, however since he was featured this is innacurate since he was not in every episode, and is unfair to someone such has Tim Meadows or Darrell Hammond who have performed much more often than Franken in only 9-10 seasons.
 * Finally, I restructured a few sentences to make them easier to read; fixed minor spelling/grammar errors; and added the "dots" next to Jon Lovitz and David Spade who have "Best Ofs" coming out this Spring and Fall, respectively.

 * Distinguishing between writers has got to go. SNL makes no distinctions between cast members who write and cast members who don't. So, what's the definintion of a cast member who wrote most of the time? Also, I'm seeing names on the list that weren't listed in the credits. If they're not listed in the credits, they're not listed here. D. Wo. 00:05, 2005 Apr 15 (UTC)

 * Fair enough on the Writers thing. I'll leave it up to you.  As for the other names, the only one's I remember adding were "George Coe" and "Emily Prager" both of whom were credited.  George Coe was in the 1st few episodes and is credited in list of the "NRF Primetime Players" (remember at this point, they were not called out individually, just shown on the screen).  Emily Prager was also credited (called out by Don Pardo) in the 4/11/81 episode opening credits.  She only appeared in this episode, but it was the same situation as Laurie Metcalf who was on the list.  Anyway, if being on just one episode doesn't count, that's fine with me.  You'd just have to remove Metcalf also, since they both received the same amount of credit in the same number of episodes.

 * Being born in 1986, I'll have to take your word for it. I just can't find any record of Prager. Coe, yes. I thought that he was on the list. Someone must have taken him off because I do remember putting him on the list to start.

 * George Coe is listed on the page as have an 8 episode tenure, yet the Notes state he was credited for the first 3 episodes. I'm curious on the criteria being used here. Is the tenure being based on the on-screen credit and/or audible introduction by the announcer? That would make the most sense. But if appearances on the show are being noted then where is Richard Belzer? He was in the jury for the courtroom sketch in the first show. How about Albert Brooks, who provided numerous films early on? No, the criteria has to be the specific introduction of the person as any part of the cast and not as a guest, either visual or audio.

 * Now, George was never introduced by the announcer, and per the official DVDs of the first season, he was only credited onscreen as NRFPTP for the first show. In addition to the "famous seven" both George and Michael O'Donoghue were included as well on the Carlin premiere. On the second show only the "famous seven". Then on the third show and the next few afterward, Michael O'Donoghue was back in the list, but George Coe's name was never credited again. Also he did appear uncredited beyond just the first season at least once, possibly more. See the video piece "Alan: A Video Junkie" from the 9/25/82 show with Chevy Chase. Coe was the Dr. who forced the kids to play video games.

 * So based on overt acknowledgement/crediting, I believe Coe's official tenure should be 1 episode, and multiple uncredited appearances in the first season and beyond. If it can be documented the number of uncredited appearances, that would be great, and it could be listed in the Notes, but the tenure needs to be 1 episode.

 * PS: RIP, George.

Fgoron2000 (talk) 02:07, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Table
I need to make this page a table instead of a list. So, don't worry if it looks ugly now. D. Wo. 18:43, 2005 May 19 (UTC)

I think there's a mistake on the graph. It shows Rob Riggle as a current cast member, and he is not. Rob Riggle was a feature player during the 2004-2005 season only (according to his own Wikipedia page). 68.173.147.140 (talk) 19:30, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

"Three Groups"
"Three groups serve as “farm clubs” for the cast and writing staff: The improvisational comedy troupes The Groundlings and The Second City, Harvard Lampoon, and recently the Upright Citizens Brigade Theatre."

That's four. --Macarion 20:06, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Why is Molly Shannon listed as being a part of the 2006 season? Not under current players, but next to her name under past players. I haven't heard any news of her making a return... N.K.

Adjusted Maya Rudolph
I adjusted her dates because she decided not to quit after the 2008 season of SNL which makes her still a cast member. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.102.98 (talk) 08:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Darrell Hammond
He has made SNL History to become the longest running cast member ever in the history of SNL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.127.178.158 (talk) 21:39, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It may be worth mentioning in the main Saturday Night Live article, or probably better still, the opening paragraph of this article. Mainly.generic (talk) 08:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Jim Henson's Muppets?
Should there be a mention of the inclusion of the Muppets for the first season? They quickly fell out of favor and were dropped, but were listed in the opening credits (I believe as "Jim Henson's Muppets").146.122.71.68 (talk) 13:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I'd say they fall in more as "key inclusions", inline with TV Funhouse and the movies included in the first few seasons. Yeah, they were mentioned during the opening credits, but that hardly makes them "Cast Members"! Mainly.generic (talk) 08:52, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Icon hell?
Is it just me or did these edits turn the list into icon hell? For example, how does the (A-class article) icon come to mean deceased? -- Tcncv (talk) 01:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Agreed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.109.179 (talk) 09:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I have to agree that the current icon used for deceased is just awful, and inconsistent with the icons used on season pages (a cross is used to denote a death). I also have to say, I kinda hate the anchor icon, and feel like the comprehension of the article would be improved if we put all the cast into a table, with columns like "featured player", "not ready for primetime", "writer", "newsdesk anchor" and the like.

 * Using a cross to denote death is awkward when the performer is Jewish, as in the case of Gilda Radner.--Edgewise (talk) 03:51, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

 * When I think about it, maybe it would be worth merging the cast and writers pages. I say this not as a blight against the articles themselves, but that so many of the cast wrote, and vice versa. I won't be making the change now, and would only proceed if there was a strong consensus.

 * Mainly.generic (talk) 05:46, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Best of
I should have the table of cast members completed soon, and am not adding "Best Of" honors to it. We have a DVD page for a reason (which will be expanded to include VHS releases in due course), and I feel like it makes this page seem a bit scattered with the inclusion here. That and it adds another page that has to be updated once new releases are made.

Mainly.generic (talk) 06:25, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Mass Removal of Sections
I have removed the following sections: Notable tenures, Best Ofs, Cast Members who have hosted These sections were, in effect, expanded trivia sections, with much of the information being redundant. I'm also planning to integrate the information from the "Family Connections" and "SNL curse" sections into the main article SNL article. Mainly.generic (talk) 08:48, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Cast Members Birth/Death Dates
I have removed the list of birth and death dates that were added to the cast page. If readers want to know when a cast member was born, and when they died, they can view the cast member's personal page. This list is not supposed to be a complete repository on their lives, rather, it is supposed to tell readers the information that is directly pertinent to SNL. Do not re-add the information. If you feel like I have done wrong, take it up with an admin. Mainly.generic (talk) 03:21, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Placement of crucifix icon
I have once again moved the crucifix icon to the bottom of the table, and I will now justify my reason for doing so. In this table, and in written literature in general, when an icon, small letter, or number is marked next to something, it is known as a Footnotes. Basically, it allows for the author to place a notification within the main text without significantly disrupting the flow of information. An explanation for the symbol is placed at the bottom of the page, where the reader is able to ascertain what it means at their own will. Having it at the bottom of the page means that it is not within the readers direct line of sight.

The top of of table is held exclusively for the title, while symbols and their definitions (footnotes) are directly under the main content. Trust me, I know this as a fact - I have completed two theses, and correct writing styles were drilled into me. There are set out rules in professional writing (it was the Chicago style I was trained in, which is the one most often in use), and these are rules we must follow.

Even if this explanation does not suffice, then I'll go for the more plain and simple - it's not done on Wikipedia. Look at all tables on here, notably the List of awards and nominations received by The Simpsons. They make the delineation at the bottom of the table, and being that it's a feature list, I'd say we can pretty much guarantee that they're doing it the way it should be done.

Mainly.generic (talk) 07:15, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

years active change
I am in the process of changing Years Active to Seasons Active. Because it is too confusing as of now. I will place them in the next day or so. Then I will begin placing links behind the season # to that page. I have went thru every Season page compiled lists of actors during that season. There are way to many mistakes doing it by year instead of season because every season starts in one year and ends in another. Which causes a lot of problems with how many years an actor is on the show.Swampfire (talk) 06:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC) *Wow so many of the years are off by a atleast a year.Swampfire (talk) 07:00, 31 August 2010 (UTC) Have already applied change, with a sample of links behing seasonSwampfire (talk) 07:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC) The main reason for the fix is Saturday Night Live casts by season and not Year. Technically there are 2 seasons in every year because the show starts around Sept and runs til around May. They way the old chart was done somtimes had a cast member starting a season after or before tthey actually did. For instance sometimes you would see someone listed as 1984 - 1990. Which could actuallu mean 83-84 season or 84-85 sseason thru 89-90 season or 90-91 season. Which if you used 83-84 thru 90-91 that is 8 seasons they were on show, but if you used 84-85 thru 889-90 it was only 6. This caused huge problems in actually dating their tenure to give them the credit they deserve.Swampfire (talk) 20:06, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Timeline
I am added a timeline to the section, any objections to the format and how it is contained? Water78 (talk • contribs) 04 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't like the timeline format. There are no links to the actors pages. JDDJS (talk) 05:42, 5 January 2011 (UTC) I missed the first section. I know support it. JDDJS (talk) 05:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The timeline, especially with the current "generational" turnover in progress, is becoming quite unwieldy. A few possibilities for better usability: Any other suggestions? Just trying to get some solution rolling. I'm unable to handle this myself. --Dhartung | Talk 09:46, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * cast names also on right
 * divider lines e.g. every fifth name, could be unobtrusive light gray
 * splitting (yikes!) -- best split possibly at Damon Wayans forward

 * I think it'd be great to put in divider lines and/or have the cast names on the right, but I've been under the impression that the timeline extension doesn't have any way to do either of those things. Looking at it again now, though, I think I see one or two possible methods that might work for divider lines. I'll try to experiment with it a bit. (Of course, if anyone else is able to figure it out, they're welcome to.) I don't want to have to split it, but I do agree there's a problem and obviously it would only get worse in time. Theoldsparkle (talk) 13:57, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

How many people were on this show?
How many people were on snl please write it in the part above the chat of cast members or do somthing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.245.39.73 (talk) 00:23, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Jimmy Fallon Host.
--GH200 (talk) 01:42, 1 October 2011 (UTC)Jimmy Fallon is said to host the show in December we mind as well say he hosted.--GH200 (talk) 01:42, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

--GH200 (talk) 05:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC) See what I told ya.--GH200 (talk) 05:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Denotes deceased
I don't understand why this article needs to point out the SNL performers that are deceased. Especially since there is a separate column specifying what years performers were active, which prevents any confusion as to whether or not the star still performs on SNL. Furthermore all actors who are deceased have their own wiki article, so it is easy to find out more about them by simply clicking their name. It is not denoted whether or not the stars are still alive on, say, the List of performers on Top of the Pops or List of performers on Frank Zappa records for example.

I propose removing denoting if the person is deceased. Also I don't think it is appropriate to denote if a person is deceased using a Christian cross. Can we get a reference that each deceased person was a Christian? I'm not sure if she was practising around the time of her death, but Gilda Radner was at least raised into the Jewish faith. As well as being inaccurate, Christianising the deaths of non-Christians is very disrespectful.

Any objections or comments? Freikorp (talk) 03:25, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Done. Freikorp (talk) 22:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

An IP editor undid my removal of the deceased category with the bizarre edit summery "please get consensus to rmv this long-standing content". Did I not make an attempt to get consensus on the talk page? I waited over 40 hours for comments before making my changes, but received no objections. Perhaps I could have waited longer but even now after two weeks even the IP editor who reverted my edit has made no comment here. How can I get consensus if nobody addressed my concern on the talk page? I am at least pleased, however, that this editor has addressed one of my two concerns by choosing a neutral symbol to represent the deceased. Now that the deceased have a neutral symbol and I am aware somebody actually wants the deceased category to remain in the article I won't push for its removal anymore, even though I see no reason for it to be in the article. Freikorp (talk) 05:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Sorry Freikorp, I was typing this while you were posting yours. Although I don't feel strongly one way or the other about whether deceased cast members should be indicated, I disagree with your unilateral removal for a few reasons. First, this is signficant (not minor), long-standing content - over four years. More importantly, not only was there no consensus, there was no input at all from any other editors; the thread was only open for less than 48 hours before you made the edit. If I had to choose, I would say that noting the deceased performers is appropriate because the show is extremely unique in that it's been on the air, on a major network, for almost 40 years. And its cast of course is comprised of individual performers, many who went on to have very successful entertainment careers on their own. I think the lists you referenced are an apples and oranges comparison. Also, the Top of the Pops example consists of many groups so obviously a group could not be denoted as deceased, so it wouldn't make sense to do it for the individuals. In any case, I think indicating the deceased actors in this article must be decided on its own merits. I definitely agree with your view that the using the cross as a symbol is inappropriate; that symbol wasn't always used. I've put back the deceased notations and changed the symbol to one that is neutral, the letter "d". Again, I think the deceased content is appropriate for this article and very helpful to readers. It would be very inconvenient to expect readers to have to go to the article of every actor just to see which are deceased; the list is way too long. Indicating the deceased in this articles make it simple, so I look at that as a very helpful improvement to the article and one is that is certainly encylopedic. However, I would not challenge a clear consensus for its removal. If you still want to pursue this matter, I would strongly suggest that you make a request for comments and allow a reasonable amount of time to get good participation from other editors. I sincerely appreciate your concerns, but I truly don't believe this matter is worth the effort. I would let it drop. The content is not hurting the article in any way and it's been there for many years. --76.189.98.149 (talk) 05:55, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

 * You make some valid points. I completely agree the matter is not important enough to be worth additional effort. The reason I removed it was because I couldn't imagine myself how this would be very useful to anyone, so I thought it was only making the page bigger than it had to be. Like I said, now that I am aware that somebody else finds it useful I am happy for it to remain. Freikorp (talk) 07:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

 * I just want to note that while Freikorp could probably have waited a bit longer for comment before acting, I think his conduct was fine. I saw his post, thought about his question, and didn't care either way, so I didn't offer any comments. I don't think there was a burden on him to do anything beyond what he did (although I would also think it was okay for him to boldly make the change without asking first, as long as he was open to the possibility of subsequent reversion and discussion. Theoldsparkle (talk) 14:54, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this topic needs addressing again. I'm not sure of the benefit at all and eventually ALL of them are going to have a (d) next to their name. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:37, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
 * And so will you. Seriously though, it's not necessary -- but at least it's not like it was before (they're now small). But, it doesn't matter to me either way. --Musdan77 (talk) 01:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
 * That presumably won't happen until several decades after the show is cancelled, but I agree we should remove the (d)s when that time comes. Theoldsparkle (talk) 14:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Current Cast Members
Can somebody PLEASE add a section of current and featured cast members? While I appreciate the info charting three decades of SNL cast members, some of us just want to simply know who's on the show THIS SEASON. No reason it has to be so muddled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.7.106 (talk) 21:29, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That information is at Saturday Night Live; I'm not convinced it needs to be spelled out here as well, although I'm not much opposed to it, either. Theoldsparkle (talk) 13:39, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Small change
Removed the claim under actor tenures that Kenan Thompson was the "first SNL cast member who got his start as a teen actor." Robert Downey Jr. and Anthony Michael Hall have both been cast members, and both were well known actors in their teens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elbruce (talk • contribs) 15:08, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Writers Section in the Timeline
What are people's thoughts on the Writer's section under the cast timeline? I believe the part had little use, since every cast member has a part in writing their own material for show. Feel free to discuss.

--Water78 (talk) 04:49, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Deceased former cast members / Saturday Night Live Curse
As currently posed, the section labeled "Deceased former cast members" is not encyclopedic, as all cast members will eventually be deceased. What makes this list notable is the "Saturday Night Live Curse". I tried to put a link to the New York Daily News, but if that reference is to "tabloidy" for Wikipedia, Here are some other links (easily found from Google):, ,.

However, another reference challenges the "curse", which, if the community agrees with this source that the "curse" is not valid, would mean that the entire section should be removed, as death of former cast members would not be notable (whereas death of cast members while still on the show would be notable, but none of the deaths listed occurred while the people were with the show). Regardless of the opinions of the community, the fact is that the reference did mention (although in a challenging way) the existence of the "Saturday Night Live curse", so it can definitely be mentioned in the article, even if the curse validity was challenged (although I would say that WP:UNDUE would preclude adding the challenge of that one reference). However whatever (talk) 18:31, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

 * This claptrap has been rejected so many times, as recently as last month (and you were pushing it then). Articles for deletion/Saturday Night Live Curse sums things up effectively. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

 * The question is not whether the alleged curse is valid. The question is whether it has significant coverage in multiple, indepenedent reliable sources. On the evidence, there does seem to be such coverage, both about the alleged curse and refuting its existence. Indeed, the fact that reliable sources have both reported on it and then been critiqued by other reliable sources seems to me nearly dispositive.
 * Quite apart from that, the edit-warring that's gone on here today, and some of the intemperate edit summaries, are exactly the sort of thing that drives away new (and even experienced) editors.
 * Hullabaloo we often agree on porn topics. I know you have a somewhat brusque style of discourse, and I often enjoy it, when it is leavened with good writing and, especially, humor. I'm not seeing that here. Why the vehemence? Am I missing something? David in DC (talk) 21:24, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Books that cover it. One with a chapter devoted to it.
 *
 *
 *
 * David in DC (talk) 21:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

 * I found However whatever's edit summary comments were tasteless, insensitive, and trivialized human tragedy. The rather unimportant pop culture has never, to my knowledge, been covered seriously (eg, comparing the SNL group to other, similar groups of entertainers. The death rates for SCTV cast members, Monty Python members, Hill Street Blues cast members, who knows which other groups, have been higher). And I'm also pissed off that somebody who was actually breaking 3RR stuck two warnings on my talk page while blithely continuing to revert. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Not withstanding my "tasteless, insensitive, and trivialized" edit summaries (which I'll ignore as a personal attack), it seems that there is a consensus that the Saturday Night Live curse has sufficient independent coverage to be mentioned in the article (the fact that it was deleted as an independent article is irrelevant, as that has a different threshold). For now I won't put the curse in the section heading, and we'll see how consensus forms on that question. However whatever (talk) 22:43, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The text that existed in the status quo version prior to the edit war, already called it a "superstition", so there is really no need to show that the "curse" has been questioned. However whatever (talk) 22:51, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * , explain something to me, please. You are warned for edit warring, and then you go right back to it, claiming a consensus when discussion has only just started. Second, you claim you cite reliable sources--but your sources are sub-par, certainly compared to the three that were gifted to you in this very discussion., please see the history and tell me if you think that this edit, though it does not insert the disputed section heading, is a continuation of the edit war. I'm scratching my head here. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 01:00, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * All I did was return to the pre-edit war status quo w/ a replacement of primary sources by secondary sources. The primary sources were the only reason given for the removal of that sentence. However whatever (talk) 01:05, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware of this discussion until now. A few weeks ago, I changed the heading from "Cast members who died prematurely" to '"Saturday Night Live Curse" (deceased former cast members)' (and an IP removed the "Saturday Night Live Curse" part), and I gave the edit summary as "Renamed heading; otherwise the section doesn't belong" -- meaning, the section is all about a so-called "curse", not just about cast members who have died. If it was the latter then it wouldn't be notable enough to be included -- and it could be discussed that the "curse" section is just trivial and not notable enough either. It doesn't matter to me whether the section stays or not, but what does matter is that if it does stay, the heading should indicate that it is about a "curse". --Musdan77 (talk) 19:37, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Somebody just undid my edits. I don't understand why this is a discussion. Remove the "cursed" section and just put a symbol next to the people who have died. Like what I did. The cursed section is trivial and unfair to the other cast who are not included but died. How is it fair that Gilda is included, but Tom Davis is not even though they both died of cancer. Water78 (talk) 01:30, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Or Jan Hooks, for that matter, who died from cancer just recently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.210.241 (talk) 05:38, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I'm with Water78. It seems a little ridiculous that Tom Davis' and especially Jan Hooks' deaths aren't notable in this article just because they don't lend credence to this "curse" nonsense (and that's what it is, BTW). I'd like to suggest removing the "curse" section altogether and simply footnoting the cast members who've died. Anyone else? PacificBoy  21:12, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Dave Golland (talk) 21:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Curious, the article states there are 10 persons related to this "curse", yet there are only 9 listed. Which is correct, is the list right and sentence wrong, or sentence right and someone missing from the list? Fgoron2000 (talk) 00:19, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I changed the name of the section again from SNL Curse to Deceased Cast. The original intention of the section was to highlight the curse, but now the only aspect of keeping it is because everyone who died was under 60-years-old. I'd like to remove the section all together and add a footnote of some sort to the main graph to highlight the deceased members. Thoughts? Water78 (talk) 22:58, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * We can certainly debate the notability of this SNL curse, but a list of deceased cast members is not notable. All the cast members will die sooner or later. Banana Republic (talk) 03:38, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, so we're in agreement for the removal of the section.

Water78 (talk) 20:47, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Steve Martin
Wasn't Steve Martin a regular SNL cast member? I seem to recall him being so or was he just a really frequent guest host? TheGoofyGolfer (talk) 18:07, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Steve Martin was a frequent host (15 times), but he was never a cast member. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.12.124 (talk) 04:06, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Both Cast and Host
The list shows numerous persons that hosted before, during and after being cast members. Over the years, it's become common and even popular for cast members to leave the show to further careers and for other reasons, and then to return to the show as a star in their own right, to host SNL. It's also well known the circumstance of Eddie Murphy hosting while a cast member when Nick Nolte became "sick" and couldn't appear. Eddie was also a star of the same film that Nolte was in at the time, so he was a natural to fill in at the last minute.

However, it's much more rare, and I think more interesting, for an established star to host the show first, and then join the cast afterward. To my knowledge, the only two who ever did this were Billy Crystal and Michael McKean. Crystal hosted first in March of 1984, and then later that fall he joined the cast for the following 1984-1985 season. He had previously been a star on Soap, had his own variety show on NBC, and was a very popular stand-up comic at the time. McKean first hosted in November of 1984, and then joined the cast much later in 1994. Before joining the cast he had starred in Laverne & Shirley as Squiggy, numerous films such as 1941, This is Spinal Tap, Clue, Earth Girls are Easy, and many others.

The idea of hosting a show first as a star, and then later joining the cast may be a bit of trivia, but I find it quite interesting, and wonder if it should be noted in the Casts and Hosts section.

Fgoron2000 (talk) 00:48, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Al Franken
From what I've researched, Al Franken didn't come back to SNL in 1987 for Season 13, he came back to the show in 1988 for Season 14, so he's been on the show for 11 seasons, not 12. -- Zach McAllen. 16:25, 23 September 2017

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Cast Timeline
Hey,

I recently finished working on a new section for cast who have been nominated, and possibly won, an Emmy for their work on the show while still in the cast. I was looking at the overall layout on the page, and I want to pose a question. There is a section for list of cast and then a timeline of the cast as well. I've had a park in constructing both over the years, but I've now had a difference in opinion. I'm not positive if the timeline (the colored one) is honestly needed here. I believe that it's actually redundant.

What's your opinion to this issue. Water78 (talk) 20:43, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Personally I really like the colored timeline. It's a different way to view the information, and provides additional information that's not conveyed in the table. Takebackyourmink (talk) 13:50, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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Brian Doyle-Murray in the cast table
For some reason, if you sort the table of cast members chronologically, Brian Doyle-Murray drops to the bottom, below the newest/current cast members. I cannot figure out what kind of formatting is causing this error (other cast members like Al Franken, who left the show and then returned are listed in their proper spots). Rather than keep experimenting and messing with the table, I thought I'd raise this issue here on the talk page and see if anyone can get that working properly.

98.190.223.50 (talk) 20:18, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Shane Gillis
Should Shane Gillis be added to this list? I mean technically he was a hired cast member, granted he got fired before the premiere of the new season but on the books he did work (albeit briefly) for SNL. What is everyone's opinion on this? YborCityJohn (talk) 22:40, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

No, definitely not. There have been a good number of SNL hires who didn't end up being on the show, and none of them should be or ever have been listed here. Shane Gillis was never on the show, and unlike Emily Prager, was never listed as a cast member in a single episode. He deserves to be mentioned on the SNL Season 45 page, but there is no need to add him to this page.

2600:8805:4200:3D0:8404:A74E:7953:E6A5 (talk) 22:51, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Steve Martin
I don't see Steve Martin mentioned in the article. --TheWolfius (talk) 17:52, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * User:TheWolfius Technically Steve Martin was not a cast member of Saturday Night Live he was a frequent guest and contributor in the same vein that Alec Baldwin would appear on SNL as Donald Trump he was paid for his appearance not as a cast member, same goes with George Wendt who made multiple appearances in a sketch about Da Bears! he was paid for his single appearances and not as a cast member. I hope this information helps. YborCityJohn (talk) 17:06, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Is there a reason Dan Vitale and Patrick Weathers don't have their own pages?
Are they not notable?  Serendi pod ous  20:07, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Patrick Weathers does have his own page which is linked under his name. Vitale is probably very borderline notable as he has had such a minor career and very little of note. However, someone could probably make a page for him and see if it passes notability standards.

 * 98.190.223.50 (talk) 21:49, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

 * , both individuals did have short articles, arbitrarily redirected here, without any prior discussion, earlier this year. Geo Swan (talk) 19:09, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Shortest cast members
Despite what is claimed in the editing history, Emily Prager WAS credited in a single episode and is a credited cast member. She needs to be listed with the cast in shortest tenures, not placed above with Shane Gillis (who shouldn't be mentioned here anyways).

74.96.73.138 (talk) 09:41, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

I've added Prager back to the list of credited cast members, as she can't be considered in the same category as Gillis and O'Hara as she was credited and appeared in the opening sequence of her one episode.

However, this page needs to add some consistency regarding the list of shortest cast tenures. It currently counts uncredited appearances for a number of individuals (including Michael O'Donoghue, who was credited in one episode only but then appeared frequently as an uncredited guest, which this list takes into account), but other names on the list, like Dan Vitale, are numbered based on credited episodes (3 in his case) and not all appearances uncredited or no.

It seems to make the most sense to base this list only on credited appearances as a cast member for consistencies' sake, but that would be up to consensus.

98.190.223.50 (talk) 16:53, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 26 April 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure)  ~SS49~   {talk}  01:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Saturday Night Live cast members → List of Saturday Night Live cast members – As a list-class list article, this article title should conform to the standard of all other list articles and include "List of" in its name. Elizium23 (talk) 22:10, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Support for the reasons stated by Elizium23. Sundayclose (talk) 22:17, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

credited tenure vs. unaccredited tenure
Not that this is awfully important to me, but I took note while reading the sections "Longest Tenures" and "Shortest Tenures" that several actors' tenures are amended with statements regarding unaccredited episodes while the "Number of Episodes" in the table represents only the accredited episodes.

For posterity's sake, should not this list order them by the total number of episodes, accredited or not, and then (as addendum) note the number of unaccredited episodes in their respective subsections? I am aware this entails watching all of those episodes, but that is the very kind of thing of which Wikipedia is uniquely capable. Just sayin' 220.221.136.183 (talk) 18:54, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Should Dan Vitale have an article?
Everyone else does.  Serendi pod ous  08:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A little context would help those besides yourself understand why you are asking. Who is Don Vitale? Sundayclose (talk) 15:43, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The only person on this list whose name redirects to this list.  Serendi pod ous  16:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It also helps to spell it correctly for those who try to search. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it should be DAn Vitale. He seems to be notable, although I could find very little about him with Google (after weeding out American football player Danny Vitale). So the only requirement for an article is someone who's willing to put in a lot of time to dig deep for information and write the article. Sundayclose (talk) 16:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
 * OK. Fixed. There is this, but you probably already saw it.  Serendi pod ous  17:46, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

There seems to be a few curious people out there, curious about his birthday and birthplace, as well as a biography of him. I believe Norm Macdonald even asked people about his birthday. IMDB and wikipedia don't have a lot on the man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.31.165.138 (talk) 11:01, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Longest tenure
Come March or so Cecily Strong, and Aidey Briant will equal then pass Tim Meadows. As they're unlikely to leave before then, is it worth adding them to the longest tenures just now (at 9 years) in preparation for that change, or just wait till that record occurs? Granted the other 9 season tenures Kevin Nealon and Maya Rudolph aren't in there, but these two actresses have already passed Rudolph's main cast number of episodes, and will pass Nealon's in less than a month. They're also only 5 episodes behind Kate McKinnon who is on the list albeit started before the summer break giving her six months a longer tenure. 82.11.86.191 (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:CRYSTAL applies Elizium23 (talk) 16:39, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Granted, but there's no defined limit on the number of entries on the list. They'll pass everyone who isn't on the list by next month and could be added at that point whether or not they eventually pass Meadows in March. 82.11.86.191 (talk) 16:42, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Idea for section
The vast majority of SNL's cast members of course appeared on the show either as their first major gig or very early in their careers and became famous either because of their SNL involvement (pretty much all the original cast) or at a later time (such as Robert Downey Jr.). However, some main cast members joined the show long after they had become notable in their own right. I'd like to suggest a section indicating those individuals. Examples would include Randy Quaid, Billy Crystal, Martin Short and Michael McKean. Just a thought. 70.73.90.119 (talk) 21:54, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

The entire section about the President should be removed
The justification for that section is a meaningless fluff line in a meaningless fluff piece in a meaningless fluff publication, and the article isn't even up any more. The President impression is not really important enough to be in the "List of Saturday Night Live cast members". 69.113.166.178 (talk) 08:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * We don't remove notable information simply because you don't like it. Your comment is so vague that it's meaningless. Your calling something "fluff" doesn't make it fluff. And which "article isn't even up any more"? Sundayclose (talk) 15:57, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The citation reference has been fixed, so the "article isn't even up any more" argument no longer applies. Although I don't necessarily want to see the section deleted, the reference is indeed weak. The "high honor" quote is attributed to an unsigned editorial. A better reference would definitely be needed. --Banana Republic (talk) 16:29, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think if you were interested you could have just looked to see, SundayClose. That section opens by justifying its own notability, which should be a red flag by itself. Is it "notable information"? Is your claim that it's notable sufficient? Would you like to check the citation and think about whether it's fluff or sufficient to justify the line and establish notability? 69.113.166.178 (talk) 16:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Impersonation of Biden
In preparation of Biden's impersonation on SNL as a sitting president, it may be worthwhile to note who impersonated Biden prior to assuming the presidency. We know that he was impersonated by Jim Carrey as a Democratic presidential nominee, but I cannot remember who impersonated Biden during the eight years that Biden was Vice President. I believe Jason Sudeikis impersonated him during the first term, but given that Sudeikis left the cast in 2013, I assume someone else impersonated Biden during the 2nd term. Banana Republic (talk) 16:11, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

When did they stop calling the cast the Not Ready for Prime Time Players?
The introduction says, "The ensemble was originally referred to as the Not Ready for Prime Time Players", but it does not say when they stopped using that title. That information should be available somewhere in this article, either explicitly or as a link to some other article in which it is given. I admit that I did not sift through the miles of trivial information looking for it, but the best place would be here in the intro, replacing the ambiguous "originally" with "through season n" or something equivalent.--8.9.88.105 (talk) 09:57, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

SNL Curse -- Should be removed
I would like to move that the entire section labeled SNL curse should be removed. A simple listing of deceased SNL cast members does not have relevance to this article, as discussed thoroughly on this talk page in 2012 and 2014. The only reason that section exists is because of the supposed notability of the "SNL curse" of seven cast members passing away before the age of 60. This is nonsensical, on it's face, because there have been 150+ cast members so just by the laws of probability and life expectancy this isn't particularly unusual. So the only reason for inclusion is if the curse is well-sourced as a pop culture idea relevant and notable for this article. However, the sources linked for that section are merely a single Huffington Post article asking if there is a curse and a listicle simple listing off cast members who have died. Based on these sources a whole section about a Curse and saying (without any sources) that "This has given rise to a superstition..." seems unwarranted and not justifiable. I think this section should be removed from the page as a list of deceased cast members is not encyclopedic and the supposed curse is not notable or sourced as a real phenomenon. I would like some input before making this change, however.

2600:4040:11A6:3000:A121:4153:53F5:38E6 (talk) 18:26, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree that it should be removed. With over 150 people, it's coincidence, not a "curse", that seven of them died prematurely (and three of those from natural causes). The probability facts on this are fairly simple. It's an imagined "curse" that attracts attention but has no substance. Even the sources cited provide little support, and one of them even says "there probably isn't a curse". Get rid of it. Sundayclose (talk) 18:59, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Cast timeline colors
The colors were pretty random until now, so I propose to make this visually more consistent with ROYGBV repeated in order, so red (pink), orange (lightorange), yellow2 (yellow), green (limegreen), blue (skyblue), purple (lavender). Some lines have multiple colors and no clear reason why (e.g. David Spade goes from pink to magenta to red), some colors seem randomly thrown in as alternates (redorange is "light orange" maybe? teal is... "light green" maybe, I sincerely have no idea? There are both oceanblue and skyblue: why?) Thoughts? Note that this may also run afoul of WP:COLOR by using color and no other identifier. I'll look into it more. ―Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:43, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

 * I counted over a dozen colors in the timeline.
 * It's been awhile since anyone has touched it. But I'm thinking the timeline colors should be, quite simply, three: red for repertory, blue for middle, and yellow2 for featured (darker to lighter based on a cast member's placement). I have no idea why there's so many different colors now (for example, why is Aykroyd red but Belushi orange when both were repertory at the same time).
 * Also, if a cast member was a Weekend Update anchor, a smaller-in-width gray line can go thru the middle of their main color during their tenure as anchor.
 * The dozen+ colors just looks like an absolute mess in my opinion. Three should be enough. Xanarki (talk) 17:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think there are many colors to be visually distinct by person, not by some kind of performer. I'm also not clear on what "middle" means...? ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There were 3 groups which designated the cast members. Middle was a group that was used for about 10 seasons or so.
 * Above the timeline it says... "Lighter colors denote "featured players" versus repertory cast members."
 * Thus why I figured 3 colors for the 3 groups would make more sense. Xanarki (talk) 20:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry--I was just speaking from memory without looking at the article. Anyway, I would support that kind of division, sure. ―Justin ( koa v f ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Thorpe Bay railway station

Thorpe Bay railway station is on the London, Tilbury and Southend line, serving the Thorpe Bay area to the east of Southend-on-Sea, Essex. It is 37 mi down the main line from London Fenchurch Street via Basildon and is situated between Southend East and Shoeburyness. Its three-letter station code is TPB.

It was opened on 1 July 1910 by the London, Tilbury and Southend Railway and was originally named Southchurch-on-Sea, being renamed Thorpe Bay on 18 July 1910. The station and all trains serving it are currently operated by c2c.

Description
The station has two through platforms, which are connected by an overhead footbridge. Platform 1 is utilised by London-bound trains, and platform 2 is for country-bound trains.

The ticket office has two serving positions and uses the TRIBUTE issuing system. The ticket office is an open wooden counter, without the clear-glass window usually separating ticket office clerks from customers.

Toilets are provided.

Services
As of the June 2024 timetable the typical Monday to Friday off-peak service is:
 * 4 tph (trains per hour) westbound to London Fenchurch Street via Basildon (2 tph all stations and 2 tph semi-fast)
 * 4 tph eastbound to Shoeburyness.

title: Thorpe Bay railway station


text:
Dublin and South Eastern Railway

The Dublin and South Eastern Railway (DSER), often referred to as the Slow and Easy, was an Irish gauge railway in Ireland from 1846 to 1925. It carried 4,626,226 passengers in 1911. It was the fourth largest railway operation in Ireland operating a main line from Dublin to Wexford, with branch lines to Shillelagh and Waterford. The company previously traded under the names Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow & Dublin Railway (WWW&DR or 3WS) to 1848, Dublin and Wicklow Raillway (D&WR) to 1860 and Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway (DW&WR) until 1906.

The DSER joined with the Great Southern Railway on 1 January 1925, the resultant company being known as Great Southern Railways.

History
It was incorporated by act of Parliament, the  (9 & 10 Vict. c. ccviii) as the "Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow and Dublin Railway Company". In 1860 it was renamed the "Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway Company" and on 31 December 1906 it was renamed again as the DSER. Amongst the lines forming the DSER was the Dublin and Kingstown Railway, which was authorised in 1831 and opened in 1834 – the first public railway in Ireland. The Kingstown – Dalkey section was operated by atmospheric traction for a short while. The railway formed part of the Royal Mail route between London and Dublin via Dún Laoghaire railway station at Kingstown (now Dún Laoghaire).

The DSER was much affected by the Irish Civil War including 31 major incidents. When added to shortages and inflationary costs arising from and after the First World War the DSER found itself, in common with other railway companies in Ireland, in difficult financial and operational conditions.

A railway bill of 1924 attempted to amalgamate the Great Southern and Western Railway (GS&WR), Midland Great Western Railway (MGWR) and DSER into the Great Southern Railway whose networks were entirely within the Irish Free State. The DSER, being part British owned, stayed out of the merger which occurred on 12 November 1924, with a preference to merge with the Great Northern Railway of Ireland (GNRI) which covered lines north from Dublin and throughout the North of Ireland. The DSER finally merged with the Great Southern Railway to form the Great Southern Railways (GSR) on 1 January 1925.

Dublin and Kingstown Railway
The Dublin and Kingstown Railway (D&KR) was Ireland's first railway. It linked Westland Row in Dublin with Kingstown Harbour in County Dublin. It was authorised in 1831, and the first part of the line running from Dublin to Kingstown Pier was opened on 17 December 1834, with an extension to Kingstown ( Dún Laoghaire station's current location) opened on 13 May 1837.

Dalkey Atmospheric Railway
The Dalkey Atmospheric Railway was an extension of the Dublin and Kingstown Railway to Atmospheric Road in Dalkey in County Dublin. It was unofficially opened as far as Sandycove on 19 August 1843. The route from Sandycove to Dalkey (atmospheric station) was opened on 19 March 1844, in time for the official opening of the on 29 March 1844. It used part of the Dalkey Quarry industrial tramway, which was earlier used for the construction of Kingstown (Dún Laoghaire) Harbour. It was the first railway of its type in the world.

Dublin and Wicklow Railway Company
The entity that became the DSER was incorporated by the  (9 & 10 Vict. c. ccviii) as the "Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow and Dublin Railway Company", with the name changing to Dublin and Wicklow Railway at the same time. They leased the Dublin and Kingstown railway in 1854, converted it from gauge to their  gauge. The remainder of the line to Wexford was opened over the next 20 years in stages.

The first section of D&W line from Dundrum and Dalkey to Bray was opened on 10 July 1854. A continuous route from Dublin to Wicklow was established the following year, when the section from the Dublin and Kingston terminus at Dalkey (atmospheric station) to D&W's Dalkey station was opened on 10 October 1855, and the extension from Bray to Wicklow (Murrough) opened 3 weeks later on 30 October. The line to Harcourt Road (later Harcourt Street) became the main line while the line to Westland Row became the branch until it was double tracked in 1882 and became a second main line. Coastal erosion has been a problem on the route to Wicklow, forcing the opening of a deviation between Ballybrack and Bray on 1 October 1915, and numerous deviations between Bray and Wicklow.

In 1860 it was renamed the "Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway Company" in keeping with the southwards expansion of the railway.

Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway Company
The line was extended onward to Enniscorthy in the early 1860s, starting with the line from Wicklow Junction to Rathdrum (Kilcommon), which opened on 20 August 1861. At this time the line from Wicklow Junction to the Murrough station was bypassed. It remained in use as a freight station and saw occasional passenger services. This was followed by further extensions to Ovoca (Avoca) on 18 July 1863 and Enniscorthy on 16 November 1863 and branch line to Shillelagh in 1865.

In the early 1870s the route was finally completed to Wexford. The route from Enniscorthy to the original Wexford Station (Carcur) was opened on 17 August 1872. It was extended to Wexford North, the current station, in August 1874.

Branch to Waterford
A branch was opened to New Ross in 1887. This left the main line at Macmine near Wexford. It was extended from New Ross to Waterford in 1904. This extension connected with the Great Southern and Western Railway, which in turn connected with trains for the south of Ireland.

City of Dublin Junction Railway
The City of Dublin Junction railway opened on 1 May 1891. This connected the DW&W at Westland Row station with Amiens Street station in the north of the city.

Network and infrastructure
The DSER had two main stations in Dublin on separate lines; Westland Row (renamed Pearse Station in 1966) for the coastal line and a terminus at Harcourt Street for the Harcourt Street line. It also owned the Marine Station Hotel at Bray and the Grand Central Hotel at Rathdrum, south of Wicklow.

Grand Canal Street railway works
The locomotive workshop for the DSER was the Grand Canal Street railway works, also known as The Factory, a two-storey converted distillery at Grand Canal Street, Dublin. With no lifting crane and poor workshop layout the works was increasingly stretched by larger locomotives and the shortages from the First World War and damages due to the Irish Civil War.

Rolling stock
According to the Railway Year Book 1912, the railway operated 60 locomotives, hauling 253 passenger coaches and 1,005 goods vehicles. The locomotives were painted black picked out with red bands and gold lines, while the passenger vehicles were crimson lake with gold lines.

One DSER steam locomotive is preserved: a 2-6-0 goods locomotive No. 15 (later Great Southern Railways No. 461) owned by the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland at Whitehead, County Antrim.

Accidents and incidents

 * A derailment on 9 August 1867 at the Brandy Hole Viaduct resulted in the train and most of the coaches falling into the sea below. Two passengers were killed, and there were a further 25 injuries.
 * On 20 February 1900, a cattle train overran buffers at Harcourt Street station, Dublin.
 * On 29 February 1908, two shunters; Timothy Doyle and William Needham were killed after a carriage they were pushing collided with a steam engine travelling tender at Bray Station.

title: Dublin and South Eastern Railway


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Talk:Pure Pwnage/to do

 * expand episode description
 * expand description of cast/characters
 * include 'Story' section (possible spoiler alert)
 * replace 'internet video series' by 'webisode' when Webisode is available
 * note that BitTorrent is used to distribute the series?
 * Consistency for noob, n00b, etc.
 * Consistency for references to episodes.
 * Make page permanent. (Quell deletion attempts)
 * Remove "ROFLMAO Productions" hyper link as it links back to main Pure Pwnage article.

title: Talk:Pure Pwnage/to do


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Talk:Blue Thunder

Vice City
In Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, they have a mini game where you use an Apache-like helicopter to hunt criminals down, this mini game is called brown thunder, is there any source of this being related to this movie? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.154.222 (talk) 00:08, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

More info
Misc. details and trivia, some of which could be used in the article to flesh it out a bit: , Motor 08:31, 2005 Apr 14 (UTC)

The Victim has Two Forms of Death
It would be absolutely fantastic if someone could add an image of the helicopter, perhaps from the box of this model kit, or this DVD cover. The movie poster keeps the cat in the bag. -Ashley Pomeroy 20:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
I might be wrong, but the Sega arcade game Thunder Blade, which has been ported to Sega MasterSystem and Genesis (See Super Thunder Blade article), as well as several gaming computers of the time, seems to be highly inspired from the Blue Thunder movie, especially for the main helicoper. I assume Sega didn't get the rights for the Blue Thunder name and thus changed the name to Thunder Blade to keep some similarities without getting into legal troubles. Does anyone have some source or opinion on this? PhMajerus 12:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Looping
So, can a helicopter fly a looping? Maikel (talk) 00:11, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently yes, but I'd still appreciate it if someone competent could put in a sentence or two about how difficult it is, and whether the stunt could be pulled of with an actual Gazelle or MD500 helicopter. Thanks. Maikel (talk) 10:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Realism
Quote: A caption at the beginning of the Blue Thunder movie states that all the high-tech-equipment features of the helicopter are real and were actually used by the military at the time. -- I would appreciate it if someone could put in a few sentences elaborating this claim. Maikel (talk) 10:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can make out the "silent flight mode" is the only technology that this movie made up entirely. Maikel (talk) 20:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * At that time there had already been a lot of research into more quiet engines and blades, but it wasn't until 2010 that efficient sound-reducing rotor wing tips have become commercially available. --MikeZ (talk) 16:37, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

JAFO
The article says that the Blue Thunder TV show explained the JAFO acronym as "Just Another Frustrating Observer". I remember that as "Frustrated", not "Frustrating". I do not have access to a recording of the show to confirm or disprove my memory. I hope some Blue Thunder fan will check on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.124.146.181 (talk) 05:50, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Blue Thunder


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Harsawa

Harsawa is a village located in the Sikar district of Shekhawati region, in Rajasthan state, India. Harsawa is within the Fatehpur Tehsil, 8 km south along National Highway-11 from Fatehpur town. Sand dunes of the Thar Desert can be seen from Harsawa. , the village had a total population of 1695.

Geography
Harsawa is located at 27°55' North, 74°59' East. The total geographical area of the village is 4000 bigha (1600 acre). National Highway-11, from Bikaner to Jaipur, passes through Harsawa, as does the railway line from Bikaner to Jaipur. Harsawa is near to the historical village of Garinda.

Demographics
As of the census of 2001, the population was 1695, of whom 829 were male and 866 were female. Literacy in the village is at 81.17%. All the villagers belong to the Hindu religion, and about ninety percent are of the Jat caste. castes include Rajputs, Brahmans, Swami, Harijans, Naik and Jangir. There is one temple of Hanumanji, one temple of the Goddess Mawali and one than (a sacred place) of Gogaji.

title: Harsawa


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Page (servant)

A page or page boy is traditionally a young male attendant or servant, but may also have been a messenger in the service of a nobleman.

During wedding ceremonies, a page boy is often used as a symbolic attendant to carry the rings.

Etymology
The origin of the term is uncertain, but it may come either from the Latin pagius (servant), possibly linked to peasant, or an earlier Greek word παῖς (pais = child).

The medieval page
In medieval times, a page was an attendant to a nobleman, a knight, a governor or a castellan. Until the age of about seven, sons of noble families would receive training in manners and basic literacy from their mothers or other female relatives. Upon reaching seven years of age, a boy would be sent to the castle, great house or other estate of another noble family. This would match the age at which apprenticeships or servants' employment would be entered into by young males from lower social classes.

A young boy served as a page for about seven years, running messages, serving, cleaning clothing and weapons, and learning the basics of combat. He might be required to arm or dress the lord to whom he had been sent by his own family. Personal service of this nature was not considered as demeaning, in the context of shared noble status by page and lord. It was seen rather as a form of education in return for labour. While a page did not receive reimbursement other than clothing, accommodation and food, he could be rewarded for an exceptional act of service. In return for his work, the page would receive training in horse-riding, hunting, hawking and combat – the essential skills required of adult men of his rank in medieval society.

Less physical training included schooling in the playing of musical instruments, the composition and singing of songs, and the learning of board games such as chess. The initial education received as a child in reading and writing would be continued to a level of modest competence under the tuition of a chaplain or other cleric, and possibly from a grammar master. They also learned courtly manners and, in attending to the needs of their master, a degree of temporary humility.

Medieval pages might accompany their lords to war. While their roles in battle were generally limited to secondary assistance and minor support functions, pages might expect to participate directly in siege situations. This could occur when a castle was under attack and crossbows were available for use by pages among the defenders. The mechanical and long-range nature of these devices made them almost the only medieval weapon which could be employed effectively by a youth.

At age fourteen, the young noble could graduate to become a squire, and by age 21, perhaps a knight himself. These boys were often the scions of other great families who were sent to learn the ways of the manorial system by observation. Their residence in the house served as a goodwill gesture between the two families involved and helped them gain social and political contacts for their adult lives. A reference to this kind of page is found in the Christmas carol Good King Wenceslaus: "Hither, page, and stand by me, if thou know'st it, telling..."

A page may also have shared the broad designation of quistroun with various lower-status kitchen servants such as scullions or knaves.

The household page
Until the early 20th century, boys of humble background might gain a similar place in a great house. According to the International Butler Academy, these pages were apprentice footmen. Unlike the hall boys, who did heavy work, these pages performed light odd-jobs and stood in attendance wearing livery when guests were being received.

The decorative page
During and following the Renaissance, it became fashionable for black boys and young men to be decorative pages, placed into fancy costumes and attending fashionable ladies and lords. This custom lasted for several centuries and the "African page" became a staple accoutrement of baroque and rococo style.

The character is frequently illustrated in literature and film, particularly periodwork:
 * In the Grace Kelly film To Catch a Thief, an undercover detective wears the costume of her "African page" to a costume ball.
 * Valentine Nwanze played an "African page" attending James Graham, Marquess of Montrose in the film Rob Roy.
 * "Koko", the fictional manservant of an opera diva, is cast as her African page in A Nut at the Opera by Maurice Vellekoop.
 * Decorative pages feature in a drawing room scene in Persuasion.
 * In the 2012 historical drama film A Royal Affair, Christian VII has an African page boy named Moranti.

Similarly, Oriental pages were periodically in fashion, e.g. in Napoleonic France since Bonaparte's conquest of Ottoman Egypt.

Modern pages
While the traditional pages are rare in the modern private workforce, US television network NBC's page program is a notable example of contemporary workplace pages.

title: Page (servant)


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Frederick Converse

Frederick Shepherd Converse (January 5, 1871 – June 8, 1940), was an American composer of classical music, whose works include four operas and five symphonies.

Life and career
Converse was born in Newton, Massachusetts, the son of Edmund Winchester and Charlotte Augusta (Shepherd) Converse. His father was a successful merchant, and president of the National Tube Works and the Conanicut Mills. Frederick Converse's higher education was at Harvard College, where he came under the influence of the composer John K. Paine. Converse had already received instruction in piano playing, and the study of musical theory was a most important part of his college course. Upon his graduation in 1893, his violin sonata (op. 1) was performed and won him highest honors in music.

After six months of business life, for which his father had intended him, he returned to the study of composing, Carl Baermann being his teacher in piano, and George W. Chadwick in composition. He then spent two years at the Royal Academy of Music in Munich, where he studied with Joseph Rheinberger, completing the course in 1898. His Symphony in D minor had its first performance on the occasion of his graduation.

During 1899–1902, Converse taught harmony at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston. He then joined the faculty of Harvard University as instructor in music, and was appointed assistant professor in 1905. Two years later he resigned, and afterwards devoted himself exclusively to composition.

Among Converse's notable students were Alan Hovhaness, Florence Price (1888–1953), and Hisato Ohzawa (1907-1953). He died in Westwood, Massachusetts.

Family
He married, 6 June 1894, Emma Tudor, daughter of Frederic Tudor of Brookline, Massachusetts. They had seven children, including five daughters. His daughter Louise married Junius Spencer Morgan III. His daughter Virginia married Paul Codman Cabot.

Compositions
Even though he was firmly committed to composing in the late Romantic idiom of his European contemporaries, his works often dealt with American subjects. The lush orchestral scoring of his program music has been compared to the early style of Richard Strauss. In 1910, Converse's opera The Pipe of Desire became the first American work ever to be performed at the Metropolitan Opera in New York. Today, Converse is best known for his symphonic poem The Mystic Trumpeter (1904), based on the poem of the same name from Walt Whitman's iconic anthology, Leaves of Grass.

With opus number

 * Sonata for violin and piano, Op. 1 (pub. 1900)
 * Suite for piano Op. 2
 * String quartet No. 1, Op. 3
 * Waltzes for piano 4-hands Op. 4
 * Valzer poetici, Op.5, for piano 4-hands (1896)
 * Youth, Op. 6, concert overture for orchestra
 * Symphony in D minor, Op. 7 (not counted by Converse with his later symphonies)
 * Festival of Pan, Op. 9 (first performed by the Boston Symphony Orch., 1899, and by the Queen's Hall Orch. in London, England, 1905.)
 * Endymion's Narrative, Op. 10
 * Night and Day, Op. 11, two poems for piano and orchestra, suggested by verses by Whitman
 * La Belle Dame sans Merci, Op. 12, ballad for baritone and orchestra (words by Keats)
 * Violin concerto, Op. 13
 * Euphrosyne, concert overture for orchestra, Op. 16
 * String Quartet No. 2, Op. 18 (1905), dedicated to the Kneisel Quartet
 * The Mystic Trumpeter, Op. 19, orchestral fantasy after Whitman (1904)
 * Iolan or The Pipe of Desire, Op. 21, romantic opera in one act, text by George Edward Barton. It has a legendary subject, of Celtic origin, based upon the mingling of the old pagan nature worship and the incoming Christian morality. The story rests upon the principle that man may force the way of his desires against the divine order but that he pays the penalty. The work is an avowed fantasy. First produced January 31, 1906, Jordan Hall, Boston, Massachusetts in 1906, and in 1909 was the first opera by an American composer to be presented at the 'old' Metropolitan Opera House. Winner of the Bispham Memorial Medal Award.
 * Laudate Domine, Op. 22, motet for male chorus, organ, and brasses
 * Jeanne d'Arc Op. 23, overture, entr'actes and incidental music to Percy MacKaye's play
 * Job, Op. 24, a dramatic poem for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
 * Serenade, Op. 25, for soprano solo, male chorus, and small orchestra
 * Hagar in der Wüste, Op. 26, dramatic narrative for contralto and orchestra
 * The Sacrifice, Op. 27, opera in three acts (1910), book by Converse, lyrics by John Albert Macy after Los Gringos, or an Interior View of Mexico and California, with Wanderings in Peru, Chile, and Polynesia by Lieutenant Henry Augustus Wise, writing as "Harry Gringo". The scene is laid in California at the time of the Mexican War, and the characters, some of whom are Americans, enact a modern tragedy.
 * Three songs for medium voice, Op. 28
 * Melody for violin and piano, Op. 29
 * Ormazd, Op. 30, symphonic poem for full orchestra

Converse largely numbering his works after Op. 30 except for the arrangement for band of Laudate Domine (Op. 32), My wish (Op. 61), Haul Away, Joe!, Op. 91, and Symphony Nr. 6. op. 107.

Without opus number
———
 * Symphony in C minor (written 1919, premiered February 1920 by the Boston Symphony)
 * Festival Scenes
 * Symphony in E minor (fp 1923)
 * Symphony in F major (written 1934)
 * Symphony #6 in F minor (completed March 1940, premiered after his death by the Indianapolis Symphony in November 1940)
 * Sonata for cello & piano
 * Silent Noon, reverie for cello and piano (1906)
 * Beauty and the Beast, or Sinbad the Sailor, His Adventures with Beauty and the Peacock Lady in the Castle of the Forty Thieves, opera, libretto by Percy MacKaye (1913) (unperformed)
 * The Immigrants, opera, libretto by Percy MacKaye (composed 1914) (Planned for the Boston Opera Company's 1914-15 season but unperformed because of the collapse of the company)
 * Song of the World Adventurers, words by Percy MacKaye, chorus for mixed voices (part of the Music for the Masque of St. Louis (pub. 1914)
 * The Peace Pipe, cantata for baritone solo, chorus and orchestra, words from Hiawatha by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1915)
 * Flivver Ten Million (A Joyous Epic Inspired by the Familiar Legend "The Ten Millionth Ford is Now Serving Its Owner"), tone poem for orchestra (1927), which calls for car horns in the score.
 * American Sketches, for orchestra (Manhattan, The Father of Waters, Chicken Reel, Bright Angel Trail)
 * Elegia Poem

 * Tone poem Prophecy, biblical symphony commissioned by Serge Koussevitsky, written for the Boston Symphony Orchestra and Russian soprano Beata Malkin and dedicated to her (1932).
 * Piano Sonata No. 1 (1937)
 * Rhapsody for clarinet and orchestra (1938)

title: Frederick Converse


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khaw Kim Siang

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was speedy delete. – ABCD 02:09, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Khaw Kim Siang
Incomplete nomination by User:Casito, who asserts this is vanity. No vote from me as yet. Radiant_* 08:36, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Apparently speedied. Talk page reads, "Wikipedia is not a place for some stupid articles..." Radiant_* 11:30, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Ball (dance event)

A ball is a formal dance event often characterised by a banquet followed by a social dance. Ball dancing emerged from formal dances during the Middle Ages and carried on through different iterations throughout succeeding centuries, such as the 17th century Baroque dance and the 18th century cotillion. Several variations exists such as the masquerade and debutante ball as well as the more modern prom.

Etymology
The word ball derives from the Latin word ballare, meaning 'to dance', and bal was used to describe a formal dancing party in French in the 12th century. The ballo was an Italian Renaissance word for a type of elaborate court dance, and developed into one for the event at which it was performed. The word also covered performed pieces like Il ballo delle ingrate by Claudio Monteverdi (1608). French developed the verb baller, and the noun bal for the event—from where it swapped into languages like English or German—and bailar, the Spanish and Portuguese verbs for 'to dance' (although all three Romance languages also know danser, danzar, and dançar respectively). Catalan uses the same word, ball, for the dance event. Ballet developed from the same root.

History
Elite formal dances in the Middle Ages often included elements of performance, which gradually increased until the 17th century, often reducing the amount of dancing by the whole company. Medieval dance featured many group dances, and this type of dance lasted throughout the period when Baroque dance became common and occurred on until at least the 19th century, when dances for couples finally took over the formal dance. Many dances originated in popular forms but were given elegant formalizations for the elite ball. Dancing lessons were considered essential for both sexes.

The ballets de cour at the French court were part social dance and part performance. It declined in the later 17th century, whereupon the formal ball took over as a grand and large evening social event. Although most were strictly by invitation only, with printed invitations coming in the mid-18th century, some balls were public, either with tickets sold or in cases such as the celebration of royal events, open to anyone who was appropriately dressed. It was at The Yew Tree Ball at Versailles in 1745 (a public ball celebrating the royal wedding of Madame de Pompadour's son), that Pompadour was able to meet the disguised King Louis XV, dressed as a hedge. The distinction between a less formal "dance" and a formal "ball" was established very early, with improvised dancing happening after dinner, as it occurred in Jane Austen's Persuasion (1818). In the 19th century, the dance card became common; here ladies recorded the names of the men who had booked a particular dance with them.

The grandest balls were at the French court in the Chateau de Versailles, with others in Paris. At royal balls, most guests did not expect to be able to dance, at least until very late in the night. Indeed, throughout the period dancers seem to have been a minority of the guests, and mostly drawn from the young and unmarried. Many guests were happy to talk, eat, drink, and watch. A bal blanc ("white ball", as opposed to a bal en blanc, merely with an all-white theme) was or is only for unmarried girls and their chaperones, with the women all in white dresses. The modern debutante ball may or may not continue these traditions, but are typically worn with pure white Ball gown and opera-length white gloves.

Georgian England
A well-documented ball occurred at Kingston Lacy, Dorset, England, on 19 December 1791. The occasion was to celebrate the completion of major alterations to the house and the event was organized by Frances Bankes, wife of Henry Bankes, owner of the house. The event involved 140 guests, with dancing from 9pm to 7am, interrupted by supper at 1am. They would all have had dinner at home many hours earlier, before coming out. Other, grander, balls served supper even later, up to 3.30 a.m., at an 1811 London ball given by the Duchess of Bedford.

The Duchess of Richmond's ball in Brussels in 1815, dramatically interrupted by news of Napoleon's advance, and most males having to leave to rejoin their units for the Battle of Waterloo the next day, has been described as "the most famous ball in history".

Colonial America
Balls also took place in Colonial America especially after the early 18th-century. The wealthy who participated in these dances followed a strict social code with mistakes in choreography scrutinized and a loss of prestige would follow excessive dance errors.

title: Ball (dance event)


text:
Category talk:London, Midland and Scottish Railway constituents

The infomation which could be included here is all shown on the article List of constituents of the London, Midland and Scottish Railway. There are scores of them: few are likely to need an article. In any case, the other members of the Big Four don't have - or need! - a similar category. The individual articles on each of the railways give adequate lead-in to the relevant comprehensive list. Peter Shearan 08:40, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Tidied up - I'll remove cleancat. Ian Cairns 10:08, 10 August 2005 (UTC)