text:
Talk:Indo-Hittite

Scientific evidence
The article regrettably lacks any arguments or evidence regarding the "Indo-Hittite Hypothesis", however contains a lot of science fiction (see e.g. my entry under Bronze Age below).HJJHolm (talk) 16:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Dbachmann, is there any reason why you move this article back ? I thought the standard for wikipedia was to name articles "XXX language" or "XXX languages". Why should this article be an exception ? bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 06:42, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * This article isn't exactly about a language or group of languages, it's really about a hypothesis within historical lniguistics. Naming it Indo-Hittite languages would imply that the content of the article should duplicate Indo-European languages, which of course it doesn't. But it might make sense to rename this Indo-Hittite hypothesis. --Angr/comhrá 23:29, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course, you do realize that even the Indo-European language group is a hypothesis, right ? They have different degrees of acceptance in the scientific world, but since none was directly attested, they are only hypotheses. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 13:56, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Is Proto-Indo-European a hypothesis or a theory? Probably a hypothesis, because theories require more evidence. Decius 14:30, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

The hypothesis is : Proto-Indo-Hittite language, later branching into Anatolian languages and Proto-Indo-European language (<from which all Indo-European languages except the Anatolian languages come in this scenario). Decius 14:41, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

So naming it Proto-Indo-Hittite language is a possibility to be voted on if many people are interested. Decius 15:11, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Some points: --Angr/ 탉 07:03, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Proto-Indo-European is definitely a theory, no longer a hypothesis, because of the overwhelming evidence that the Indo-European languages are descended from a common ancestor.
 * 2) I think the point of this article should be to discuss the Indo-Hittite hypothesis (who proposed it, what the evidence in favor of it is, who argues against it, what the evidence against it is). Naming it Indo-Hittite hypothesis would make that intention clear. Renaming it Indo-Hittite language or Proto-Indo-Hittite language would imply that the article should focus on reconstructing the proto-language, and would largely duplicate Proto-Indo-European language.
 * 3) It's customary to use "Proto-" in the names of proto-languages, if only to disambiguate between the name of the proto-language and a cover term for its daughter languages. Irish is a Celtic language, but it isn't the Proto-Celtic language.

I think the theory that all the Indo-European languages (including the Anatolian languages) descend from a single Proto-Indo-European language should be a hypothesis, simply because there is not enough evidence that the Anatolian languages are included in the same way. Decius 04:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Though I agree with point 3, the Celtic/Proto-Celtic example is not parallel: in Indo-Hittite, 'Indo' stands for "Proto-Indo-European" and 'Hittite' stands for "Anatolian": so "Indo-Hittite language" could as well refer to the time when they were still one, before they split: so "Indo-Hittite language" could convey the same information as "Proto-Indo-Hittite language". That's true what you're saying though, and the convention is to use "Proto-" for the early language and to drop "proto-" when referring to the group. And I guess that such classification qualifies as a logical reason. Decius 04:41, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Though I'm not necessarily advocating it be titled Proto-Indo-Hittite language, such a title would not violate accuracy: see Proto-Pontic language for a parallel example. The Proto-Indo-Hittite language hypothesis is about on the same level as the hypothesis that the Proto-Indo-European language includes the Anatolian languages. Decius 04:54, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

 * So you think there's equally good evidence in both directions, so both should be called hypotheses rather than theories? I'd say there's an Indo-European theory, which includes two sub-hypotheses: (1) Anatolian broke off from the others only a little earlier (say a couple of centuries) than the other broke up (Anatolian-as-daughter hypothesis), (2) Anatolian broke off from the others a lot earlier (say a couple of millennia), allowing the rest to develop independently before breaking up (Indo-Hittite hypothesis). --Angr/undefined 05:33, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

That's good to. The reason I'm interested in this debate is because I feel that the Proto-Indo-Hittite hypothesis may well be the correct one, because the other scenario is trying to squeeze (from a preconceived notion) everything into one late proto-language through a short window of time. Probably they underestimate how much time it takes for such languages to develop. Decius 05:58, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Bronze Age and Chalcolithic
An anon just added a paragraph about the question whether Anatolian broke off from the rest of PIE before the Bronze Age or even the Chalcolithic. The question that interests me is, why are people so intent to tie linguistics in with archaeology? The Indo-Hittite hypothesis is a linguistic question that can only be answered with linguistic data. If the archaeological evidence supports the hypothesis, that's great, but it doesn't strengthen the hypothesis. If the archaeological evidence does not support the hypothesis, that's okay too, because it doesn't weaken the hypothesis either. The same holds true for a lot of other questions in Indo-European linguistics. --Angr/undefined 20:27, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * There's been a bit of intermingling of historical linguistics with genetics and archaeology. Part of it is the link between language and culture.  Interdisciplinary research into such matters can, on occasion, strengthen or weaken a hypothesis. AEuSoes1 06:19, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

 * There isn't only " a bit"...; BTW, the EBA (Early Bronze Age) starts in Anatolia at least with the beginning of the 3rd Millenium cal. BC., and NOT 3.300 in the Caucasus. See any modern archeological journal.HJJHolm (talk) 16:03, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The EBA begins ca. 3000 BC. It is futile to debate when precisely it should be taken to begin. Christopher Edens, Transcaucasia at the End of the Early Bronze Age, Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (1995):
 * Transcaucasia had considerable impact on eastern Anatolian during the Early Bronze Age when the Transcaucasian style of black and  red burnished pottery, architecture, and other artifacts appeared in eastern Anatolia and then in Syro-Palestine. The movement of this culture, variously called Kura-Araxes, Early Transcaucasian, and Khirbet Kerak, began late in the fourth millennium B.C., and its effects persisted into the second half of the third millennium. The incursion of the Kura-Araxes culture in the EB I coincided with the collapse of the Uruk-related trading system that had encouraged the emergence of towns and political complexity in eastern Anatolia.

in other words, EBI begins gradually, from about 3300, with the Kura-Araxes culture, brings about the end of the Uruk period in the 31st century, and is in full swing by the turn of the millennium. dab (𒁳) 10:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Animate / inanimate distinction
"Notably, Anatolian doesn't have the IE gender system opposing masucline : feminine; instead we have a rudimentary noun class system based on an older animate : inanimate opposition reminiscent of noun class systems in non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages."

Well, the Russian language also has a animate/inanimate distinction in its nouns as well. No need to recur to Niger-Congo languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.241.221.24 (talk) 11:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Russian has a masculine-feminine-neuter distinction in the area that Hittite shows an animate-inanimate distinction, so it doesn't really compare. Dutch is closer since its has merged the masculine-feminine of its old masculine-feminine-neuter system leaving two cases kind of like an animate-inanimate system.  It probably still isn't a good comparison though.Ekwos (talk) 01:32, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Before someone adds the Dutch comparison to the article, let me point out that it's quite different from the Hittite system (as I understand it). Dutch has largely merged masculine and feminine, but that gives two genders common and neuter, without much meaning attached to the genders: e.g. stoel ("chair"), is common, but all diminutives including those referring to people are neuter. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 16:24, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

good god the jargon
I'm sure undergraduate students of historical linguistics understand what "(SLR-D)" means, but we laymen don't.

Obviously one doesn't need to explain every technical term in detail on this particular page, but links to detailed information are necessary to make the article better than pseudo-academic wankery. 71.248.115.187 (talk) 02:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, SLR-D was described as "a method" in the same sentence and supplied with a reference. This is all laymen have to know without compromising WP:VERIFY.Rokus01 (talk) 13:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Presentation of the matter seems inadequate
I don't think that the problem is quite appropriately explained here. For example, a tendency towards simplification of the noun case system within the history of Hittite (or other individual languages) is irrelevant; it's the Old Hittite stage that counts, if anything. (It is true, though, that in the plural, many case distinctions found in other branches seem to be attested nowhere in Anatolian and the overall case system in the plural looks much simpler, comparable to the dual.) Also, I fail to see how the vowel system in Anatolian in general is simpler than in PIE. It's rather the verbal (tense-aspect-mood) system of Hittite especially, which is unexpectedly simple compared to the traditionally reconstructed Brugmannian or Graeco-Aryan system, and more comparable to Germanic, lacking several categories usually reconstructed for PIE, which has given rise to this proposal. To be fair, however, the noun system is also simpler, considering the lack of the feminine and the dual, and the fewer case distinctions in the plural mentioned above. On the other hand, an additional case, the directive, has been reconstructed for Anatolian.

As far as I understand the issue, perhaps the decisive part of the problem is the overemphasis on Hittite, which is already reflected in the name of the proposal, "Indo-Hittite" instead of "Indo-Anatolian" or so. Yes, Hittite is strange in some ways, especially compared to other highly ancient (and presumably archaic) IE languages. But Hittite is only one out of several Anatolian languages; what should really matter is reconstructed Proto-Anatolian. As Hittite and its Anatolian sister languages were investigated more closely in recent decades, traces of categories which were previously considered absent in Anatolian turned up, or were directly found present in non-Hittite Anatolian languages. Therefore, reconstructed Proto-Anatolian turned out considerably less "strange" for an IE language than Hittite is. I can definitely affirm this for the phonology; the PA system as reconstructed by Melchert is surprisingly close to the PIE system (though still distinctive in some important points), especially the vocalism. Hittite and Luwian made it seem (at least superficially) as if *o had merged with *a, but Lycian hasn't. Therefore, even for Proto-Luwian, and a fortiori PA, a conventional five-vowel system has to be reconstructed.

The conclusion is that the "Indo-Hittite" proposal is simply misguided and Anatolian is essentially just another branch of IE on the same level as Indo-Iranian or Tocharian.

That doesn't mean, however, that everyone agrees that there is nothing special about Anatolian at all. Many scholars in the field do seem to think that Anatolian split from PIE first – with a crucial difference. The Indo-Hittite proposal implied a binary branching Proto-IE (sans Anatolian) vs. Proto-Anatolian; under the alternative view, there was never a "non-Anatolian" node (i. e., protolanguage). Instead, Anatolian separated from an already dialectally differentiated IE, a dialect continuum to be precise, not from PIE. Within the "non-Anatolian" continuum, some innovations could still spread, failing to reach Anatolian, which was already geographically detached and had lost contact with the remainder of IE, unable to exchange innovations with them. However, those innovations did not necessarily reach all non-Anatolian branches, either. Especially Greek and Indo-Iranian are often assumed to have shared innovations at a relatively late stage (but still before the Proto-Indo-Iranian stage). This idea is usually expressed as "Late PIE". (One innovation that is often attributed to "non-Anatolian" is the development of the perfect, whose counterpart in Anatolian, the hi-conjugation, does not seem to have a truly perfective meaning and may therefore represent an older stage. This is connected with the Urmedium proposal championed by Jasanoff, attempting to derive perfect and mediopassive from a single verbal category.)

I'm not sure how prevalent that view is, but it does seem to be relatively common in the field. There is also the idea, though perhaps somewhat less popular, that Tocharian was the second branch to split off and lose contact with the rest of IE. Italic and Celtic may have come next. One reason for this idea seems to be the mediopassive endings in *-r shared by all those branches (i. e., Anatolian, Tocharian, Italic and Celtic), which may therefore be an archaism that was replaced by the familiar endings in *-i in the other branches (however, Phrygian seems to have mediopassive endings in *-r as well, as in addaketor, vs. addaket, presumably cognate to Latin facitur and facit respectively with a preverb or perhaps augment). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:44, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

 * I don't think that the "bronze" argument is particularly strong, either, I'd even consider it inconclusive and obsolete. There is a word *aios reconstructed for PIE that must mean a metal, but in the attested languages it can mean "ore" and various metals and alloys: "bronze" as well as "copper" (as in Latin aes) and "brass" and (in Indo-Iranian) even "iron". This is similar to the state of affairs in Proto-Uralic, where we have only *waśke as a term for an unspecified type of metal. In both cases it is suspected that it was "copper", the prime working metal in the latest stages of the Neolithic. There are old words for "gold" and "silver", quite possibly of PIE date, as well, which would definitely exclude those metals. If we have only one term for "(working) metal" (not gold or silver) in a prehistoric European language, the reasoning goes, this does point towards copper, but not necessarily to bronze. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 03:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The term Indo-Hittite was coined before the decipherment of the other Anatolian languages. --Tom 144 (talk) 16:54, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Lack of innovations
''From the point of view of phylogenetics, the Indo-Hittite hypothesis is strongly corroborated by the lack of any Indo-European innovations in Anatolian. Notably, Anatolian doesn't have the IE gender system opposing masculine : feminine; instead we have a rudimentary noun class system based on an older animate : inanimate opposition reminiscent of noun class systems in non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages.''

The phrase "Indo-European innovations" makes no sense at all. Innovations of Indo-European as opposed to what else? We don't know any language or language family for certain to be related to Indo-European. Alternatively, "Indo-European" here could mean "non-Anatolian", but in that case, the choice of wording presupposes the Indo-Hittite hypothesis and the argument is thus circular. Moreover, the lack of some (outside of Anatolian) innovation in Anatolian as such does not prove anything, unless that innovation is common to all branches except Anatolian, and moreover cannot have spread via diffusion within an already differentiated dialect continuum (admittedly, the possibility of diffusion is difficult to exclude, though the spread of some instance of deep grammatical restructuring would be difficult to argue for – the feminine, however, is not sufficient in my opinion, especially given apparent traces of the older system outside Anatolian, too). In his Etymological Dictionary of the Hittite Inherited Lexicon (2007), chapter 0.6, pp. 22–26, Alwin Kloekhorst lists seven possible common innovations of non-Anatolian Indo-European, which would seem to validate the "weak" version of the hypothesis I've already explained above, but since that one is widely accepted, it says nothing for the Indo-Hittite hypothesis proper. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:08, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Worse, as pointed out in Talk:Anatolian languages, in this case the old conundrum "archaism or loss?" is especially unclear, and Anatolian may simply present a case analogous to various Germanic languages which have merged masculine and feminine genders into a common gender. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:37, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The paragraph you removed was perfectly fine, as I think dawned on you as you wrote the above paragraph, you just found "Indo-European" used in the sense of "non-Anatolian" confusing. This could just have been clarified if indeed it was misleading. It is fair enough to say this article has too much unreferenced hand-waving written by Wikipedians instead of a referenced summary of academic opinion, but you are not helping the situation if you selectively remove the hand-waving that happens to go against your preferred opinion while leaving untouched the hand-waving you feel sympathetic towards. This way, all you achieve is turning a fair but poorly referenced page into a biased and poorly referenced page. --dab (𒁳) 10:33, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Well, I disagree with "perfectly fine", and the paragraph doesn't sound particularly NPOV nor valuable in general to me (the circularity still grates), but if you will, restore the paragraph; I won't resist.
 * Considering that you're guardedly supportive of Indo-Hittite, your third opinion would be very welcome. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 05:51, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I shouldn't be construed as supportive of Indo-Hittite in all its glory(?), but I do agree with User:Dbachmann that, in the context of the Indo-Hittite hypothesis, Indo-European really does refer to what some other non-Indo-Hittite-subscribing Indo-Europeanists call "nuclear"-PIE or "core"-PIE, vz., PIE without Hittite (+/- Tocharian, depending on who's talking). I don't see any problem with the paragraph in this context.  It doesn't count as NPOV to use a theory's terminology.  A page on Freud's psychoanalytics would be remiss to skip past the id, superego, and the ego, even though the last of these terms is used vastly differently in other psychological theories.  This article should make clear somewhere, but probably only in one place, (I haven't checked whether it does) that a majority of historical linguists working on this sort of problem have chosen another terminology for what is more-or-less the same thing, other than emotional coloring and the emphasis on "basically the same" or "we can't reliably reconstruct anything really different" (standard view) vs. "fundamentally different and clearly separately reconstructable" (Indo-Hittite view). I hope we can all agree on what an article like this one should do:  This article should help people out who want to read and understand statements and articles about Indo-Hittite, and not be confused by this article perversely avoiding the Indo-Hittite theory's terminology, and also not be confused by this article ignoring the relationship to the majority terminology. That's my two cents, anyway. --Mellsworthy (talk) 08:57, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not just the terminology I have a problem with, or find jarring. The first sentence is simply circular, and thus redundant, the way it is phrased, even if you replace "Indo-European" with "non-Anatolian" (which actually makes this clearer, I think).
 * Try to look at it from the point of view of a person who isn't already convinced of the existence of non-Anatolian innovations: then the assertion clearly begs the question, IMHO. It is not NPOV; it is clearly partisan (yes, dab, I think the paragraph in this form makes the article biased to begin with), but written in Wikipedia's voice. Moreover, the fact that the crucial question is if the apparent non-Anatolian innovations are really innovations at all appears to be suppressed here. And even if they are common non-Anatolian innovations, there are still those pesky complications I keep talking about that make it so hard for a slam-dunk for the Indo-Hittite camp (though admittedly for their opponents too). Which is, of course, why even you don't believe in the classic IH hypothesis, only a weak variation thereof. (I think the two main weak variations are: 1) "Non-Anatolian IE" is basically a sprachbund, with diffusion of innovations across already existing dialect boundaries, not strictly a node; 2) "Non-Anatolian IE" is a node, but the differences from "IE including Anatolian" are at least not radical. I have defended 1, Melchert and you appear to be defending 2.)
 * Even apart from that, I just think the paragraph isn't well written and doesn't add much to the article, if it is at all necessary. Like, is it really necessary to adduce Niger-Congo when there are much more familiar languages with a common gender such as Dutch or Swedish?
 * However, I'm not going to edit-war about the paragraph. I'm just not comfortable restoring it and I find that my opinion on the paragraph hasn't changed; I don't like it any better than I did at the time. But maybe I'm just too biased and can't think clearly. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A potentially agreeable change to the wording:

''From the point of view of phylogenetics, the Indo-Hittite hypothesis is strongly corroborated by the lack of some apparently Indo-European-specific innovations in Anatolian. Notably, Anatolian did not have the IE gender system opposing masculine : feminine : neuter; instead Anatolian had a rudimentary noun class system based on an older animate : inanimate opposition ; the elaboration of such a simple system is reminiscent of the elaboration of the two way noun class systems in non-Bantu Niger-Congo languages into the much more elaborated system of Bantu.''

 * I think that addresses the circularity problem and some of the objectivity problems, and hopefully seems reasonable to all parties. It seems that you should probably also compare to the situation of Scandinavian and Dutch, per Florian's suggestion, perhaps in a following sentence such as this:

''A competing explanation for the mismatch in the gender systems of Anatolian vs. most other Indo-European languages is a simple merger, on the Anatolian side, of the masculine and feminine opposition usually reconstructed for the protolanguage by most Indo-Europeanists; this too is plausible, as such a merger has occurred in modern Scandinavian languages and Dutch, among others. Evidence for this merger has been proposed by some Anatolian researchers, but it seems the communis opinio is shifting to disfavor the merger hypothesis again. (cite Melchert)''

 * In general, I agree with Florian that this article needs a lot of work, but I do not have the time to sink into it right now. Dissertation!  --Mellsworthy (talk) 00:52, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

 * That sounds a lot better. Go for it! --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:04, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you think about the wording I have above? Do you think it's reasonable to put the counter-arguments together in a separate section?  --Mellsworthy (talk) 00:54, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Kroonen (2018)
Kroonen (2018), Linguistic supplement to Damgaard et al. 2018: Early Indo-European languages, Anatolian, Tocharian and Indo-Iranian argues in favor of the Indo-Anatolian hypothesis:

Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  04:03, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

 * I still find it suspicious that (per Kümmel 2015, as already admitted by Melchert) there are still no uncontested examples of non-Anatolian shared innovations in the phonological realm. This is a major weakness haunting the hypothesis.
 * As for Damgaard et al. (2018), a problem I've seen mentioned on the Eurogenes blog is that there is apparently no confirmation that the samples used came from actual speakers of Hittite or other Indo-European Anatolian languages, and in fact the study does not claim this. They could equally have been Hattians or Hurrians, in which case the lack of steppe ancestry would be much less surprising. This illustrates nicely the pitfalls of archaeogenetic research, and why Wikipedia should not rely on single studies. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 01:58, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Holm
I have removed the section on Holm's investigations. His research does not appear to notable and a dissenting voice who has been paid little notice and whose criticism has not been taken up by others in the field does not generally deserve an entire section in an article. Tristanjlroberts (talk) 20:53, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

 * The anonymous "Tristanjlroberts" descibes himself as a Theoretical Pphysicist and therefore is not in a position to criticise people who have by far more experience in linguistics, archaeology, Bayesian glottochronology, or genetics. This is an extremely difficult and still debated field. Even the paper of Jäntti (2016) cannot not really enlighten us. Unfortunately, the honourable outing of his mental shortcomings does not change this.HJJHolm (talk) 15:27, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Indo-Hittite


text:
Asbarez

Asbarez (Ասպարէզ "Arena") is an Armenian-American bilingual daily newspaper published in Armenian and English in Los Angeles, California, by the Western USA Central Committee of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation.

History
The newspaper began publication in 1908 in Fresno, California. It moved to southern California several decades later when a large Armenian-American community emerged there. Before moving to a new headquarters in the Hollywood neighborhood of Los Angeles in the 1970s, the newspaper's headquarters was located in Glendale, California, a suburb of Los Angeles.

The daily is published five times a week. It is from 16 to 28 pages, Tuesdays through Fridays and 40 to 48 pages on Saturdays. It also regularly publishes magazine supplements on special occasions.

Asbarez in English
The newspaper that includes both Armenian and English sections. After being an all-Armenian newspaper, a regular English section was added on May 1, 1970. The English section became a daily feature starting January 1993.

Online publication
The newspaper also went online starting 1994 and launched a web component in 1997.

Television
Horizon Television has become a broadcasting partner.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Asbarez


text:
Kissing Jessica Stein

Kissing Jessica Stein is a 2001 American independent romantic comedy film, written and co-produced by the film's stars, Jennifer Westfeldt and Heather Juergensen. The film also stars Tovah Feldshuh and is directed by Charles Herman-Wurmfeld. It is one of the earlier film appearances of actors Jon Hamm and Michael Showalter. The film is based on a scene from the 1997 off-Broadway play by Westfeldt and Juergensen called Lipschtick.

Plot
28-year-old Jessica Stein is an attractive, Jewish, neurotic copy editor at a New York City newspaper. Her brother Dan has just gotten engaged, her best friend Joan is about to start a family, and her mother Judy is worried that Jessica will end up alone. Having endured several awful blind dates searching for Mr. Right, Jessica's interest is piqued by a personal ad that includes her favorite quote about relationships by Rilke. Jessica discovers it is in the "Women Seeking Women" section of the newspaper.

The ad was placed by Helen Cooper, who works at an art gallery. Dissatisfied with unfulfilling sex with men, Helen is looking to try something different and decides to experiment with dating women at the encouragement of her gay friends. Jessica replies to the ad, but she becomes apprehensive when she meets Helen, then apologizes and exits. Helen chases after her and persuades her to stay for one drink. The two discover they get along well and have a lot in common; they have dinner. Helen challenges Jessica's assumptions about what will make her happy and passionately kisses her goodnight.

Jessica and Helen start dating and awkwardly make out on Helen's sofa afterwards. The usually uptight Jessica gradually becomes more happy, confident, and carefree; this is noticed at her workplace and attracts interest from her boss, Josh. Jessica evasively says that she has not found a boyfriend. Helen, meanwhile, is falling in love with Jessica and grows frustrated that their relationship is not moving faster.

Judy invites Jessica and Helen to dinner at their holiday house, where she tries to set them each up with a computer executive and Josh, respectively. A thunderstorm causes Helen to sleep over in Jessica's old bed, where she and Jessica have sex for the first time. The two of them are happy together, but Jessica stays closeted about her new relationship, refusing to bring Helen as her date to Dan's wedding for fear of what others will think. Devastated, Helen says she cannot accept being treated as a shameful secret, and tearfully breaks off their relationship.

As Dan's wedding approaches, Jessica sinks into a deep depression and goes to see Judy, who tells her that she is a perfectionist who always quits things if they are not perfect, even if they make her happy. Judy takes a deep breath and says that Jessica should not let this ruin her chances at happiness with Helen, who seems like "a lovely girl". Realizing her mother has accepted her sexuality, Jessica breaks down into tears of joy.

Jessica apologizes to Helen and invites her to be her date for Dan's wedding. Helen is a hit at the event and warmly welcomed into the family. Josh, meanwhile, has realized that he has been in love with Jessica for some time, and shares his feelings with her after the party. Jessica awkwardly but firmly explains that she is in a relationship with Helen and departs with her, leaving Josh speechless.

A few months later, Jessica and Helen are living together in Helen's apartment, where their sexual relationship begins to fade. Helen realizes that Jessica views her as a best friend and roommate more than a lover, and says that she needs more than Jessica is able to give. A fight ensues; Jessica implores Helen to accept their relationship as-is, but Helen remains steadfast to her need for a partner who satisfies her sexually, and the two split for good.

Several months later, Helen is happily living with another woman. Jessica is a more calm and content version of her former self, having taken the positive things she learned from her time with Helen and applied them to her own life. She puts up fliers in a bookstore seeking a new roommate, missing the flirtatious interest of the attractive store owner. She spots Josh among the bookshelves, whom she has not seen since she left the paper to focus on her painting. They have a friendly catching-up, and she tells him that Helen dumped her, which was tough, but ultimately made her a better person. She gives Josh a flyer with her email on it. Later, Jessica meets up with Helen—the two women now solidly friends—and joyfully tells her that she is going on a date with Josh.

Festival screenings
The film premiered at the Los Angeles Film Festival on April 21, 2001, receiving the Audience Award for Best Feature Film and a Critics' Special Jury Award.

The film was next shown at the Toronto International Film Festival, with screenings scheduled the day before and the day after the 9/11 attacks. According to the DVD commentary track by Westfeldt and Juergensen, both screenings took place, with the second screening on September 12 producing audible gasps among audience members at the sight of the World Trade Center. The two filmmakers decided to eliminate the nine or ten scenes featuring the Twin Towers because they were not integral to the story and distracted from it.

Critical reception
The film was hailed by critics upon release. It withstood some criticism from the LGBT community for not dealing in depth with the difficulties of being openly gay, but even among these criticisms, it was praised for portraying a same-sex relationship in a positive light. The website AfterEllen.com, which tracks the portrayal of lesbian and bisexual women in the media, reviewed the film positively.

The Advocate magazine listed the film as an essential film for LGBT viewers, stating that "By no means is it a model lesbian movie — in fact, the film is a more honest look at bisexuality and sexual fluidity — but it is certainly a movie that encourages exploration and self-awareness."

In the book Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women's Love and Desire, Lisa M. Diamond cites the film as a notable example of female sexual fluidity in popular culture, writing that it "depicts a lesbian becoming involved with a man, contrary to the more widespread depictions of heterosexual women becoming involved in same-sex relationships."

title: Kissing Jessica Stein


text:
Talk:8.3 filename

unicode support?
if full Unicode support didn't come until Windows 2000, how exactly were Unicode long file names supported?—Kbolino 06:46, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

 * what do you mean by "full unicode support"? 98 had some unicode support though it didn't have all apis (i don't have 95 handy to try but it wouldn't surprise me if it had some degree of support). NT4 was natively unicode though i belive it only supported the basic multilingual plane. Even now unicode support is not without its quirks in most operating systems. Plugwash 20:21, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Full Unicode support is still miles away, even though were getting closerMs dos mode (talk) 21:35, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Windows 95+ supported two subsets of Unicode, defined by the system ANSI and OEM codepages. IFSMGR.VXD used UNICODE.BIN file to perform the required conversions. 178.49.152.66 (talk) 12:36, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

page name
this page used to be at "8.3 (computing)" imo a horrible and not very informative name.

vague rant who has never edited this page then moved it to just 8.3. which i belive is even worse since it gives very little idea of the articles subject.

if there are no objections here in a day or so. i'm going to move the page to the more discriptive name of 8.3 filename limitations. Plugwash 20:27, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * A more accurate title might be "8.3 FAT filename mapping" or "8.3 file naming scheme", but I don't see what's to be gained by moving. "8.3" is a moniker that the article has set out to explain, and it does that quite well.  Another similar example might be 24/7.
 * —Ghakko 23:03, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I'll point out that my page move was simply made because there was no need for disambiguation, since the article 8.3 did not exist. I didn't take into account whether there might be a better title, I was just removing unnecessary disambiguation. I've no issue with the page being moved somewhere else. I've likewise no issue with it staying here. I'm not fussy. - Vague | Rant 13:31, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Naming Convention Speculation?
I've read theories about this, and usually discussions about this end up saying there's no real answer.

First one from http://www.mackido.com/Innovation/FileNames.html : Because to do things (like copy a file), you had to type in the entire file name (and path name), people used lots of abbreviations and concatenation to reduce typing. This is why CP/M (DOS) used 8.3 (8 charaters + a 3 character suffix).

Second: If you've come across with the name Gary Kildall during your research, count the letters in his name. This doesn't explain why it wasn't 7.4 though.

Third: 8.3, 8 + dot + 3 = 12 characters, compressed nicely with RAD50 into two words. However, CP/M does not compress filenames, and RAD50 was usually used to compress 6.3 or 9.3 filenames (some computers were 6-bit back then).

Fourth: It comes from the 12 rows on an 80 column card. One row for each letter, plus the 12th row for a data clock (based on the stereotypical IBM 029 keypunch). A single column was punched in each row to mark the letter from the character set, yielding up to 80 choices per character.

Fifth: There is evidence that Gary was one of those rare individuals with both DEC and IBM influences in his background. DEC had established the 3-character file extension as a standard on its systems, and IBM mainframes of the time had 8 characters as a common namespace size. Put the two together, and you get 8.3.

Sixth: DEC's RT-11 used 8.3 filenames, and CP/M was developed using it as a guideline. This doesn't explain where RT-11 got 8.3 though.

Seventh: Kildall chose 8.3 because he liked it.

http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-10133-83-Naming-Convention-Why-was-it-chosen.html

I believe that the Mac OS X implementation of FAT32 uses a similar hashing step to the one listed as step 4 of the "algorithm" but I'm not completely sure about this. It may be worth mentioning if someone more knowledgable can verify this. 71.245.115.135 02:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

DOS 8.3
This is usually called DOS 8.3. If the article is not going to have that official name, it should certainly redirect to here from there, and should mention the term right at the start. *** The discussion of the dot should perhaps add some more tech background. The dot does not exist in the internal representation -- there is simply a place for the 8 letters and a place for the 3 letters. So, the dot is always implicitly present. And it is also misleading to say that 8.3 names are uppercase. Is a tech sense that may be true, but in another sense they are generally defined as caseless, and can be represented arbitrarily as uppercase or lowercase. All a source of endless potential problems. 69.87.203.84 19:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I always thought of eight dot three file names as always being uppercase/all caps. Like the true form of 8.3 filenames are in all caps.
 * wmic lists all filenames and folder names as being all lowercase:
 * [...]
 * dir lists all 8.3 filenames and foldernames as being all uppercase:
 * [...]  [...]
 * 8.3 names are generated for folders too FYI. --User123o987name (talk) 06:45, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * [...]  [...]
 * 8.3 names are generated for folders too FYI. --User123o987name (talk) 06:45, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 * 8.3 names are generated for folders too FYI. --User123o987name (talk) 06:45, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

more info needed
There are endless complications with DOS 8.3 / LFN. This is a core tech subject. It is pathetic that this article is so limited, and has no links to relevant external resources. 69.87.203.84 20:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Move .. again
I'll agree with the discussion above that a simple title of "8.3" is vague. According to the MSDN documentation this is called a "8.3 file name" (spaces are intentional—although I could swing towards "filename" for constancy within Wikipedia). Could we agree to move it to either 8.3 file name or 8.3 filename? +mwtoews 17:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Moved. I chose to use "filename" over "file name" as it appears Wikipedia has more consistency with that spelling.+mwtoews 21:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Translating LFN to SFN
I don't understand "followed by 4 hexadecimal digits derived from an undocumented hash of the filename" how, exactly, does one determine those four digits on their own? Maybe it's my severe lack of understanding of Hexadecimals ...

TextFile.Mine = TE021F~1

Jndrline (talk) 20:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Hex is just a way of expressing a number. The number is determined by an algorithm which is undocumented.  The algorithm varies by OS, version, and sometimes service pack.  —EncMstr (talk) 21:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I am sure I have seen such SFNs, but at the same time, I am certain I have also seen SFNs of the sort  (which uses less than 6 characters and more than one digit). The article does not mention that, nor anything useful about the 4-hex-digit variety. It is a little vague as it stands and needs some information about that/those. I guess I just got a new project. ಠ_ಠ Synetech (talk) 19:45, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Windows NT systems use the checksum after, but pre-NT (I'm pretty sure that includes 95 but I don't know what the last non-NT system was) systems use  , which can logically be extended to double-digit numbers (so   like you said)... Nameless6144 (talk) 12:58, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Found a page about a successful reverse-engineering of this checksum... A Tale of Two File Names: Should it be included, or is it not encyclopedic to include information discovered through reverse-engineering? Either way, it's probably what Jndrline wanted, so I'll post it here. Nameless6144 (talk) 12:58, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow Nameless6144!  You answered a question I'd forgotten I ever asked.   I think my original intent was writing cmd/bat files, and how can you predict an 8.3 file name in certain instances.  What a great read!  Thanks for sharing.  Jndrline (talk) 19:16, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

185.24.13.202 (talk) 10:43, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

The example of a shortened filename 'OVI3KV~N' contains the character 'N', whereas the text below this clearly states that the character after the tilde is always a digit.

Converstion to short name misses details
The conversion section does not cover how I can manually obtain the right number after the tilde.

For example, if I have to filenames abcdefgh-cat.txt and abcdefgh-dog.txt which one will be ABCDEF~1.TXT and which one will be ABCDEF~2.TXT? How do I determine the correct number? --95.91.242.234 (talk) 10:06, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Usually, the file that was present in the directory first will be "~1", and the file added there later will be "~2". However, the purpose of this article is not really to examine the details of the operating system source code... AnonMoos (talk) 17:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:8.3 filename


text: User talk:158.64.118.227

title: User talk:158.64.118.227


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xepher

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 17:06, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Xepher
Request for deletion by entry's original author (myself) the page was created under the wrong title, this has since been corrected, apologies for the inconvenience, creating entirely new entries is new to me
 * Unsigned nomination by 84.9.90.69 (talk · contributions)

 * Just redirect it to the correct title by replacing its contents with #REDIRECT Article with correct title   — J I P | Talk 06:49, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm reinstituting the VfD request. This is advertising, no matter which version of the article name is used. RickK 22:45, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, site in question is a notable alternative to keenspace/spot. With expansion, it should be fine. --Asriel86 23:11, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep webcomic hosting sites. Nerd Boy is hosted there, among other things. Grue 18:30, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xepher


text: User talk:130.207.237.109

title: User talk:130.207.237.109


text:
Sophie in 't Veld

Sophia Helena "Sophie" in 't Veld (born 13 September 1963) is a Dutch politician (Volt, previously D66). She was elected as a Member of the European Parliament in 2004, and reelected in 2009, 2014 and 2019. She was D66's top candidate for the three elections and has been its leader in the European Parliament since her first election.

Early life and education
Sophia Helena in 't Veld was born on 13 September 1963 in Vollenhove, Netherlands.

From 1982 to 1991, she studied history at Leiden University. After completing a master's degree in medieval studies, she worked as a freelance translator in French, English and Italian, then as a trainee in the economic affairs department in the Dutch city of Gouda.

Political career
Johanna Boogerd-Quaak, then a D66 MEP, hired In ’t Veld as an assistant in 1994. From 1996 to 2004, she was the secretary general of the ELDR group in the Committee of the Regions.

Member of the European Parliament, 2004–present
In ’t Veld has been a Member of the European Parliament since the 2004 European elections, for Democrats 66 as part of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe parliamentary group. Her election in 2004 made her the sole D66 MEP until 2009.

Between 2004 and 2009, In ’t Veld served on the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs. From 2009 to 2014, she was a member of the Committee on Women's Rights and Gender Equality. Since 2009, she has been a member of the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs; between 2009 and 2014, she served as the committee’s deputy chairwoman. Within the Committee, she has been chairing the Rule of Law Monitoring Group (ROLMG) since 2018.

In addition to her committee assignments, In ’t Veld founded and currently chairs the European Parliament Platform for Secularism in Politics. She is also Chair of the European Parliament Working Group on Reproductive Health, HIV/AIDS and Development since 2009 and Vice-President of the European Parliament Intergroup on LGBT Rights.

In 2017, In ‘t Veld and Guy Verhofstadt unsuccessfully tried to recruit the Five Star Movement (M5S), an Italian populist party, into ALDE. When Martin Selmayr was appointed to be Secretary-General of the European Commission in March 2018, In 't Veld led the protests in the European Parliament stating that the nomination "destroys all the credibility of the European Union".

Following the 2019 elections, In ‘t Veld ran against Dacian Cioloș and Fredrick Federley to lead the Renew Europe group but eventually lost to Cioloș. Following Cioloş's resignation in 2021, she announced her candidacy to succeed him. Shortly after, she withdrew her candidacy, which left Stéphane Séjourné the only candidate for the position.

On 16 June 2023, she announced having switched party membership from D66 to Volt. In 't Veld intended to seek re-election in the June 2024 European Parliament election as the lead candidate of Volt Netherlands, but she had not been a member of the party long enough to be eligible. She instead decided to run in Belgium's Dutch-speaking electoral college and was elected as the lead candidate of Volt Belgium in October 2023. On 7 April 2024, she was elected as the European lead candidate for Volt Europa together with Damian Boeselager. She failed to win re-election in 2024 after Volt Belgium failed to win any seats in the Belgian 2024 European Parliament election, with the party receiving 0.9% of the vote.

Social policy
In ‘t Veld is an ardent opponent of the death penalty. In 2009, In ‘t Veld and her fellow MEP Sarah Ludford publicly supported an online petition calling for abortion to be made legal across all EU member states. In ‘t Veld also sought a condemnation of Pope Benedict XVI over his critical comments on gender theory.

Following the 2014 elections, In 't Veld joined fellow MEPs Othmar Karas, Sven Giegold, Sylvie Goulard and Alessia Mosca in an open letter aimed at exerting pressure on the President of the European Commission and national government leaders during the nominations process to improve the gender balance in the composition of the European Commission.

Privacy
In 2008, In 't Veld filed a lawsuit against the United States Department of Homeland Security, demanding to see what information it had collected on her from her PNR data; this move led to her being blacklisted. A Washington, D.C. judge ruled in 2009 that the Federal government of the United States does not need to explain to In 't Veld why she must undergo additional security checks each time she visits the United States.

In July 2009, In ‘t Veld took to court again after unsuccessfully seeking access to documents about the legal basis of the EU’s agreement with the United States about how information from the international bank transfer system SWIFT concerning EU citizens would be passed from the EU to the United States. The EU’s General Court ruled in December 2009 that In ‘t Veld should be given access to parts of the documents, but the Council of Ministers heavily censored the files. In 2014, the European Court of Justice ruled that In ‘t Veld should be given access to documents prepared by the legal service of the Council. Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer represented in 't Veld in her case.

Democracy
She lauded the measures in defense of democracy the European Union took in regards to Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter. She is the rapporteur for the EU Committee of Inquiry to investigate the use of Pegasus and equivalent surveillance spyware (PEGA) which she deemed a threat to democracy.

Immigration
Speaking in the European Parliament on 29 April 2015, In 't Veld criticised Nigel Farage's warning that Islamic extremists were likely to enter Europe among the influx of migrants and refugees from North Africa and the Middle East. She suggested that scenario would be as unlikely as an invasion by Martians. It was later claimed by the Hungarian counter terror chief that terrorists had illegally entered the EU through that method.

In September 2019, European Commission President-elect Ursula von der Leyen created the new position of “Vice President for Protecting our European Way of Life”, who will be responsible for upholding the rule-of-law, internal security and migration. In 't Veld said in a statement: "The implication that Europeans need to be protected from external cultures is grotesque and this narrative should be rejected."

Recognition
In 't Veld is an Honorary Associate of the UK National Secular Society, which awarded her the Secularist of the Year prize in 2011.

Controversy
In 2019, Dutch opinion magazine HP/De Tijd revealed that In 't Veld received reimbursements for years for untaken hotel stays in Brussels, the city where she resided. The total amount of unjustified reimbursements was at least tens of thousands of euros. Although In 't Veld claimed that she used these reimbursements for hotel stays in the Netherlands, it was revealed that she paid her hotel stays in the Netherlands with a different reimbursement worth more than 4,500 euros per month.

title: Sophie in 't Veld


text:
The Stendhal Syndrome

The Stendhal Syndrome (Ital. La Sindrome di Stendhal) is a 1996 Italian giallo film written and directed by Dario Argento and starring his daughter Asia Argento, with Thomas Kretschmann and Marco Leonardi. It was a critical and commercial success in Italy, grossing ₤5,443,000 Italian lira (US $3,809,977).

The title refers to a psychological condition in which a subject enters a fugue state induced by the presence of art. Argento said he experienced Stendhal syndrome as a child. While touring Athens with his parents young Dario was climbing the steps of the Parthenon when he was overcome by a trance that caused him to become lost from his parents for hours. The experience was so strong that Argento never forgot it; he immediately thought of it when he came across Graziella Magherini's book about the syndrome, which would become the basis of the film.

Plot
Detective Anna Manni travels to Florence on the trail of a serial rapist and murderer, Alfredo Grossi. While visiting a museum, Anna is overcome by Stendhal syndrome, a condition which causes the sufferer to become overwhelmed when viewing great works of art. When Alfredo learns of Anna's disorder, he uses it to disable her before he kidnaps her and subjects her to a brutal and sadistic sexual attack. Although she manages to escape, Anna is left deeply traumatized. Alfredo continues to track her movements and is able to capture her again. This time, however, Anna turns the tables on her abductor, breaking free of his grasp, badly wounding him in the process, and knocking him into a river.

While the police, believing Alfredo to be dead, search the river for his body, Anna meets and soon falls in love with Marie, a young French art student. Anna also takes sessions with a psychologist in an effort to come to terms with her own deep-seated emotional trauma. That trauma is intensified when Anna begins to receive phone calls from the supposedly-dead Alfredo. When Marie is found murdered, Anna's psychologist, concerned about her mental state, visits her at home. While he is there, a colleague of Anna's, Marco, calls to notify her that Alfredo's body has in fact been found. This leads to the psychologist realizing the truth, and he confronts Anna with the reality that she herself is Marie's murderer. Marco arrives at Anna's apartment, only to find that she has killed her psychologist as well. As he attempts to take Anna's gun from her, she confesses that Alfredo is now inside her, ordering her to do terrible things, whereupon she murders Marco. The police arrive on the scene and ultimately arrest her after she wanders the streets.

Cast

 * Asia Argento as Det. Anna Manni
 * Thomas Kretschmann as Alfredo Grossi
 * Marco Leonardi as Marco Longhi
 * Luigi Diberti as Insp. Manetti
 * Paolo Bonacelli as Dr. Cavanna
 * Julien Lambroschini as Marie Beyle
 * John Quentin as Mr. Manni
 * Franco Diogene as Victim's husband
 * Lucia Stara as the Shop assistant
 * Sonia Topazio as Victim in Florence
 * Lorenzo Crespi as Giulio
 * Vera Gemma as the Policewoman
 * John Pedeferri as Hydraulic engineer
 * Veronica Lazar as Mrs. Beyle
 * Mario Diano as the Coroner
 * Cinzia Monreale as Mrs. Grossi
 * Antonio Marziantonio as Night Watchman
 * Eleonora Vizzini as Anna Manni (child)

Production
Upon release, the alternate title was 'The Stendhal System'.

Bridget Fonda was originally set to star in the role of Anna, but dropped out before the start of production, and Jennifer Jason Leigh was considered as a possible replacement before Dario Argento eventually cast his own daughter, Asia, in the role. Thomas Kretschmann was cast as Alfredo Grossi because he had previously worked with Asia on the film La Reine Margot (1994) and she recommended him to her father.

The opening scene was shot in Florence at Italy's famed Uffizi Gallery. Dario Argento is the only director ever granted permission to shoot there.

The work that Anna literally steps into is a painting by Rembrandt, depicting 17th century policemen and titled The Night Watch. The painting that causes Anna to faint in the museum is Landscape with the Fall of Icarus, by Bruegel.

The footage of Anna underwater after she faints in the gallery was shot in the sea. The huge grouper fish that Anna kisses was a remote model that was being pulled through the water by cables attached to a small float on the ocean's surface. Mere moments after wrapping the underwater shoot, the fish stopped working.

This would be the last fiction feature film for acclaimed director of photography Giuseppe Rotunno. The following year he shot a documentary on Marcello Mastroianni before retiring.

Graffiti artists were brought in to cover the walls of Alfredo's underground lair with graffiti. In one night the group created over one hundred square feet of graffiti-covered walls at the location.

This is the second of (to date) five films in which Argento has directed his daughter, Asia, the four others being: Trauma, The Phantom of the Opera, The Mother of Tears and Dracula 3D. She also had roles in Demons 2 and The Church, both of which her father produced.

Argento planned on making a sequel to The Stendhal Syndrome which would follow detective Anna Manni on another case. However, Asia was unavailable so the character's name was changed (to Anna Mari) and Stefania Rocca was cast. The resulting film is 2004's The Card Player.

Versions
The Italian release was around two minutes longer than the English export version, including an additional scene where Anna calls the husband of one of Alfredo's victims and another where she meets Marie's mother, played by Veronica Lazar (whose name is included in the credits of all versions, even those in which she does not appear). These scenes were eventually made available to international audiences on home video but remain in Italian, as dubs in other languages were never created.

Critical reception
The film carries a 77% 'Fresh' rating from Rotten Tomatoes based on 13 reviews indicating positive reviews, and was nominated for a Saturn Award for Best Home Video Release.

Response from critics was mixed, with AllMovie's Jason Buchanan calling the film "a sadistic and disturbing psychological exploration", but one that is "ultimately a victim of its own excess and the director's tendency to overcomplicate a fairly simple storyline." Buchanan praised the film's "stunningly visual opening sequence" and Ennio Morricone's "hauntingly hypnotic score" but criticized how "the seemingly meandering plot grinds to a halt just as it should truly shine."

Variety's David Rooney gave the film a mixed review, praising the film's "exhilarating" opening sequence and Giuseppe Rotunno's "cool and elegant" cinematography, but lamented that "[a]s with much of the director’s work, large sections of plot are pure hokum, and the gradual slackening of both pace and suspense in a sluggish second half only underlines the increasing silliness."

Maitland McDonagh gave a mostly positive review, writing that "this isn't a return to the baroque heights of Opera and Tenebrae. But it's a must-see for Argento completists, driven by a brave and disturbing performance by the director's daughter, Asia", though she criticized the film for taking "a serious wrong turn around the time Anna buys a blond, femme-fatale wig."

Home video
In the US, The Stendhal Syndrome was first distributed by B movie company Troma Entertainment. A new special edition DVD of the film was released by Blue Underground on 30 August 2007. Blue Underground went on to release a Blu-ray in 2008 containing, for the first time in an English-friendly release, the uncut original version, including the additional Italian-only scenes (still in Italian, with English subtitles). The company re-released the film in 2017 as a three-disc limited edition.

For its initial release in the United Kingdom, eleven cuts, primarily to the rape scenes, violence and some dialogue, totalling 2 minutes 47 seconds, were made by the distributor before submission to the BBFC for a video certificate. However, the uncut version was initially released. Since this had not been submitted to the British Board of Film Classification, this version was withdrawn and re-released. The 2005 UK DVD release, by Arrow Pictures, had all previous cuts waived and represents the full-length English version, although like all English releases it omits the two scenes then exclusive to the Italian version. A later release by Arrow Video in 2010 contained the missing short scenes.

title: The Stendhal Syndrome


text:
Pryor

Pryor is a surname, which can refer to:
 * Aaron Pryor (1955–2016), American boxer
 * Alfred Reginald Pryor (1839–1881), English botanist
 * Anduele Pryor (born 1985), Dutch football player
 * Arthur Pryor (1870–1942), American trombonist and bandleader
 * Cactus Pryor (1923–2011), Texan humorist and broadcaster
 * Charles Pryor (cricketer) (1815–1897), English cricketer
 * Charles Pryor (politician) (1959–2024), American politician
 * David Pryor (born 1934), American politician, former U.S. Senator from Arkansas, father of Mark Pryor
 * DJ Pryor, American stand-up comedian and actor
 * Francis Pryor (born 1945), British archaeologist
 * Francis R. Pryor (1862–1937), English playwright
 * Frederic Pryor (1933–2019), American economist
 * Greg Pryor (born 1949), American baseball player
 * James Pryor (born 1968), American philosopher
 * Joshua Pryor (born 1999), American football player
 * Kendric Pryor (born 1998), American football player
 * Lindsay Pryor (1915–1998), Australian botanist
 * Mark Pryor (born 1963), American politician
 * Matt Pryor (American football) (born 1994), American football player
 * Michael Pryor (born 1957), Australian author
 * Quentin Pryor (born 1983), American basketball player
 * Richard Pryor (1940–2005), American comedian, actor, and writer
 * Roger Atkinson Pryor (1828–1919), Virginia secessionist and New York state judge
 * Ronald Pryor (1901–1977), Brazilian cricketer
 * Snooky Pryor (1921–2006), Afro-American blues musician
 * Terrelle Pryor (born 1989), American football player

It may also refer to the following places:
 * Pryor Creek, Oklahoma, a city commonly called Pryor
 * Pryor, Colorado
 * Pryor, Montana

title: Pryor


text:
Lake Chilwa

Lake Chilwa is the second-largest lake in Malawi after Lake Malawi. It is in eastern Zomba District, near the border with Mozambique. Approximately 60 km long and 40 km wide, the lake is surrounded by extensive wetlands. There is an island in the middle of the lake called Chisi Island. The lake has no outlet, and the level of water is greatly affected by seasonal rains and summer evaporation. In 1968, the lake disappeared during exceptionally dry weather. When David Livingstone visited the lake in 1859, he reported that its southern boundary reached as far as the Mulanje Massif, which would have made the lake at least 20 mi longer than it is today.

The Danish International Development Agency, in cooperation with the Government of Malawi has been working to ensure preservation of the lake and its wetlands. The Lake Chilwa Basin Climate Change Adaption Programme (LCBCCAP) has been introduced to conserve the sensitive area, which is not only an important wetland for local fauna, but also a major source for fish products in the region.

Wildlife
The most common fish species of Lake Chilwa are Barbus paludinosus, Oreochromis shiranus chilwae, Clarias gariepinus, Brycinus imberi and Gnathonemus. The lake supports a waterbird population of around 1.5 million with about 160 different species. Some of these migrate along the Asian - East African Flyway from Siberia each year. With twelve bird species, the number is over 1% of their total flyway population. The surrounding human population is dense and growing, and waterbirds are hunted for food when the water level is low and fishing is problematic. Efforts are being made to ensure that hunting is done in a sustainable manner.

Economy
About 335 villages with over 60,000 inhabitants engage in fishing the lake, and pull in over 17,000 metric tons each year, 20% of all the fish caught in Malawi.

title: Lake Chilwa


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Saipan Incident

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD 01:20, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Saipan Incident
The first half is copied from Saipan and the second half seems to be about a non-event. SWAdair | Talk 06:54, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable. Megan1967 07:31, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The incoherent bit at the end of the article appears to be a reference to the Republic or Ireland's national football team having a training camp in Saipan before the last football World Cup. Perhaps too much Guinness before writing the article? Particularly since they then don't bother mentioning that team captain Roy Keane was so incensed by the amateuristic state of the training camp it resulted in a very public spat with manager Mick McCarthy and Keane leaving the team. This is mentioned in Keane's article, it could possibly be mentioned in the main Republic of Ireland football team article perhaps, but the term 'Saipan Incident' does not appear to have been widely used, and is therefore not appropriate. Average Earthman 09:24, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
User:Ddawson

 Committed identity: a3ddd2532a91ae0abf06dffb1fcb7e1e985a4bdc3228ec0fa4bc9895fc78c4694624d8e53551ef45c7f177fdac4cb8bd2fd10a3572abe12a1d13184c49a29ef9 is an SHA-512 commitment to this user's real-life identity.

Greetings, Wikipedians. I am Daniel Dawson, a life-long resident of Spokane, Washington; a graduate of Eastern Washington University with a B.S. in computer science (class of 2005); and an organist at a local church.

Contact:
 * Email: danielcdawson at gmail dot com
 * Web site (recently updated, but still rather stale)

title: User:Ddawson


text:
Chindio

Chindio is a village on the north bank of the Zambezi River in Mozambique, downstream of its junction with the Shire River. Chindio is not the same place as Chinde, although they are both on the Zambezi and in Mozambique.

Between 1908 and 1914, riverboat services ran from the terminus of the Shire Highlands Railway at Port Herald in Nyasaland, now Malawi to the British concession of Chinde at the mouth of the Zambezi in Mozambique, where passengers and goods were transferred to seagoing ships. This was the main route for goods and passengers to and from Nyasaland. However, as the Shire River was difficult to navigate in the dry season when water levels were low, the British South Africa Company built the Central African Railway, 61 miles long, from Port Herald to Chindio on the north bank of the Zambezi. This line was opened in 1914. Between 1914 and 1922, the African Lakes Corporation and British Central Africa Company both ran steamer services from Chindio to Chinde in the dry season, but from Port Herald to Chinde when water levels were sufficient. In 1922, the Trans-Zambezia Railway Ltd completed its line from Murraça, on the south bank of the Zambezi opposite Chindio to Beira, and cross-river ferries ran between the Chindio and Murraça.

For two months in the dry season the capacity of the ferry was limited and wet-season floods often washed parts of the railway track away. In 1937, a Zambezi Bridge, the Dona Ana Bridge was opened at Mutarara near Sena, 25 miles upriver from Chindio. The line on the north bank of the Zambezi between Chindio and Murraça was abandoned, as the new line from Mutarara to Murraça was in the south bank.

title: Chindio


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Boustead Holdings

Boustead Holdings Berhad (BHB) (myx: 2771) is a Malaysian corporation with over 16,000 employees across more than 90 listed and non-listed companies in Malaysia, Indonesia and the United Kingdom. It is an affiliate of the Malaysian military.

BHB was founded in 1828 as Boustead & Co in Singapore by Edward Boustead, an English businessman. The company was incorporated in 1961, and is currently listed on the Kuala Lumpur stock exchanges.

History
In 1975, Boustead & Co split into four entities: Boustead Plc in London (which was later reorganized as Boustead & Co), Boustead Holdings Berhad (BHB) in Malaysia, Boustead Singapore Limited, and Boustead China Co, Ltd.

The major shareholder of BHB is Malaysian military pension fund, Lembaga Tabung Angkatan Tentera (LTAT).

Organisation
The Group’s business interests are focused in key sectors of the Malaysian economy via its five Divisions:

Property & Industrial
The division engages primarily in property development and investment, hotel management (under the Royale Chulan hotel chain), project management as well as manufacture and distribution of cellulose fibre cement products.

Pharmaceutical
The division is the largest listed pharmaceutical group in Malaysia and involved in various segments of the pharmaceutical value chain, from research and development to the manufacturing of generic drugs, over-the-counter medicines and nutraceuticals, logistics and distribution, regulatory, sales and marketing as well as retail pharmacy.

Heavy Industries
The Division (Boustead Heavy Industries Corporation) caters to the defence security, marine and aerospace sectors, providing a range of services to Government and commercial clients including shipbuilding, ship repair, maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO), manufacturing of components and systems, maritime training and integrated logistics support, among others.

Trading, Finance & Investment
Under this division, Boustead is involved in diverse sectors within the Malaysian economy with core businesses include a home-grown retail petroleum network, the provision of financial products as well as travel and tourism related services.

Subsidiaries
Its major subsidiaries include Affin Bank, Pharmaniaga, and BH Petrol.

Its subsidiary Pharmaniaga was appointed as the distributor of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine for the Malaysian market during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Boustead also operates The Curve mall in Damansara, Selangor. The mall is connected to an IKEA store.

title: Boustead Holdings


text:
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Talk:Taxodium

Swamp Cypresses can grow and multiply quite happily on the other side of the world - Australia - and without any water in sight!! There are two, a parent and its progeny, growing in the northern Sydney suburb of Turramurra in the state of New South Wales. The original tree is thought to have been planted in around 1900 on the advice of the head botanist at the Sydney Royal Botanic Gardens. The garden where it was planted belonged to nature conservationist, Eccelston Du Faur, the founder and first managing director of the nearby Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park. It is now in the grounds of a hospital. If you are ever in this part of the world, come and have a look at this majestic tree. Autumn is from March to May. PM 5/4/05
 * Yes, it is generally the case that marsh and swamp plants have special adptations for dealing with the unique problems that water saturated soils present, adptations not seen in non-wetland plants. However, in some situations, especially where care is provided, there is no reason these wetland plants cannot do well in non-wetlands.  On the other hand, species regarded as aquatic are morphologically and physiologically dependent upon a constant source of water, and do not do well in other than an aquatic setting. - Marshman 17:24, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * They need constant watering untill their roots reach the water table in dryer sites

wtf does "exceptionally 11m" mean? that there actually have been examples FIVE TIMES the diameter of the norm? this needs clarifying.
 * Yes, it does. See Árbol del Tule - the stoutest tree in the world (already linked, so it shouldn't need more clarifying!) - MPF 20:48, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

cool tree...why not a better article?
Seriously, would love to see an FA on this with research and range map and all!TCO (talk) 00:21, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Taxodium


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Guthrie (company)

Guthrie Group Limited (Kumpulan Guthrie Berhad) was a Singaporean-Malaysian company that primarily dealt with plantations. It merged with three other plantation groups to form the world's largest plantation company with the name of Sime Darby Berhad.

Guthrie was founded in Singapore in 1821 by Alexander Guthrie as the first British trading company in Southeast Asia. Guthrie introduced rubber and oil palm in Malaysia in 1896 and 1924, respectively.

Early history
Alexander Guthrie was born in the parish of Menmuir in Angus, Scotland, in 1796, son of David Guthrie of Burnside and his wife Margaret Guthrie, née Guthrie. He went to Singapore in 1821 to set up a trading branch of Thomas Talbot Harrington and Company. Guthrie parted company with Harrington in 1823, and his company was renamed Guthrie and Company in 1833. He retired in 1847, handing the firm over to his nephew James Guthrie, and retired to London, where he died unmarried in 1865. James Guthrie was born in Tannadice in Angus in 1814, son of Alexander's brother David and his wife, Katharine Grant. James arrived in Singapore in 1829 and became a partner in 1837. In 1846, he married Susan Scott, a distant cousin, and had two daughters and a son before Susan's death in Singapore in 1853. James left Singapore in 1856 and returned to Britain. He retired from the firm in 1876 and died in 1900. Other partners included James' nephew by marriage, John James Greenshields, whose mother Margaret Lyall Scott was the sister of Susan Scott. Greenshields was born in Liverpool in 1823 and died there in 1873. Another was James Guthrie's brother-in-law Thomas Scott, born in Dun, Angus in 1832 and died in Angus in 1902, who became a partner in 1857 and senior partner in 1867.

Acquisition by Malaysia
In 1981, the group became a wholly Malaysian-owned company after Ismail Mohamed Ali, Khalid Ibrahim, Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah and Raja Mohar engineered a raid to take over the group at the London Stock Exchange. The takeover allowed Malaysia to return ownership of some 200,000 acres (800 km2) of agricultural land back to Malaysians. Khalid Ibrahim, CEO of Permodalan Nasional Berhad later became the CEO of the Guthrie, later known as Kumpulan Guthrie Bhd, from 1995 to 2003.

Guthrie Group was made a public company in 1987 and was subsequently listed on the Kuala Lumpur Stock Exchange (KLSE) in 1989 in what was then the largest public issue in Malaysia.

As of 1993, Guthrie had about 110,398 hectares of land, with 19,500 hectares were for rubber plantations and 1,481 hectares reserved for development. Its land bank was the largest in Malaysia.

Guthrie owned a corridor of estates in Selangor, named the "Guthrie Corridor", totaling 4,706 hectares. The corridor comprised four estates, from Bukit Jelutong in Shah Alam to Lagong in Rawang. It also owned Haron Estate in Klang, and a piece of land in Gurun, Kedah.

In 1996, Guthrie began moving to property development as its new core business. Some of its estates became property land, with Bukit Jelutong becoming an integrated township and Lagong becoming a satellite city. Guthrie also planned to build a 30 km-long expressway along the corridor, which became the Guthrie Corridor Expressway.

In 1997, Guthrie began installing central monitoring systems an electronic alarm system linking each house with a police station  on its houses and commercial buildings, including the Guthrie Corridor.

Merger with Sime Darby
With the government investment company Pemodalan Nasional Berhad being the largest single shareholder, the government merged Guthrie with Sime Darby and Golden Hope plantation to form a new entity named Synergy Drive, later renamed Sime Darby. All Guthrie shares were de-listed on 1 November 2007 and re-listed on 30 November 2007.

Later activities
The group's main activities are plantation and property management. The official trading name of Guthrie is Kumpulan Guthrie Berhad. Guthrie Group has plantation estates in Peninsular Malaysia and Sabah, and northern Sumatra and West Kalimantan (Borneo) in Indonesia. The group is also engaged in real estate (with the formation of Guthrie Properties in 1994) and manufacturing.

title: Guthrie (company)