text:
User talk:Superkick

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Zzyzx11 | Talk 20:47, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Superkick


text:
Talk:Music of West Africa

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2021 and 22 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RobieHillier.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:18, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
this is very valuable information its very interesting mwere some of our music come  from ,we jus listen n listen n listen nlisten n listen n not knowin were its comin fro m Africa XD  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.15.232.108 (talk) 18:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

This entry needs some serious editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.217.83.236 (talk) 21:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

This page needs expanding - the introduction mentions countries in the region of particular interest from a musical point of view, but hardly any further expansion has been made after the introductory paragraph. The region of West Africa has brought us many of Africa’s musical giants - Ali Farka Touré, Fela Kuti, Toumani Diabaté, Salif Keita, Youssou N’Dour, Baaba Maal, Oumou Sangare, Amadou et Mariam, and the band Tinariwen. There is not much mention of style apart from a brief section on the Cape Verde Islands - what about Afrobeat, Gumbe, Highlife, Juju, Makossa, Mbalax and Wassoulou - not to mention Reggae, Rap & Hip Hop. There is also potential for expansion on the musical instruments mentioned in the introduction - Kora, xalam, Djembé and Talking Drum, (although it must be noted that these instruments all have stand alone pages). Nomadic Lemon (talk) 01:43, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

=Page deletion= This page seems to be a thinly disguised advertisement and to exist mainly so search engines can pick up the links. It contains essentially zero information about the topic of the page. I believe it should be deleted. MichiHenning (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed irrelevant image per WP:IRELEV, maybe useful when the article has grown beyond its current length. Stanleytux (talk) 13:28, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Development/Improvement
Hello everyone. I've recently added a little over 1000 words to this article, and it's something to which I'm going to add another 1000 words or so within the next few weeks. If you have any criticism (constructive or other)/feedback/worries, feel free to send me a message or respond here. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Coop253 (talk) 08:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Music of West Africa


text: User talk:64.63.221.95

title: User talk:64.63.221.95


text:
Dictionnaire des ouvrages anonymes et pseudonymes

The Dictionnaire des ouvrages anonymes et pseudonymes whose full title is Dictionnaire des ouvrages anonymes et pseudonymes composés, traduits ou publiés en français, avec les noms des auteurs, traducteurs et éditeurs, is a four volume (1806—1809) dictionary by Antoine Alexandre Barbier listing pen names for French and Latin authors.


text:
Hito Steyerl

Hito Steyerl (born 1 January 1966) is a German filmmaker, moving image artist, writer, and innovator of the essay documentary. Her principal topics of interest are media, technology, and the global circulation of images. Steyerl holds a PhD in philosophy from the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna. She has been a professor of Current Digital Media at the Academy of Fine Arts in Munich since 2024. Until 2024, she was a professor of New Media Art at the Berlin University of the Arts, where she co-founded the Research Center for Proxy Politics, together with Vera Tollmann and Boaz Levin.

Early life and career
Steyerl was born on 1 January 1966 in Munich. Steyerl attended the Japan Institute of the Moving Image. She later studied at the University of Television and Film Munich. Steyerl was deeply influenced by Harun Farocki, although she has cited her former professor, the noted film historian Helmut Färber, as having a more direct influence on her work.

Work
In 2004 Steyerl participated in Manifesta 5, The European Biennial of Contemporary Art. She has also participated in the 2008 Shanghai Biennale and the 2010 Gwangju and Taipei biennials. In 2007, her film Lovely Andrea was exhibited as a part of documenta 12 in Kassel, Germany. In 2013 her work was included in the Venice Biennale and the Istanbul Biennial. In 2015, her work was included in the German pavilion at the Venice Biennale. In 2019, it was featured in the Arsenale of the Venice Biennale.

Steyerl's work pushes the boundary of traditional video, often obscuring what is real beneath many layers of metaphors and satirical humor. She referred to her piece, Red Alert, as "the outer limit of video". Red Alert consists of three monitors playing a video of pure red, and was commissioned to be a static representation of Steyerl's film Lovely Andrea. The color red was chosen for its connotations to terror alerts and red-light districts, referencing the themes of military violence and pornographic exploitation present in Lovely Andrea.

Her work concerns topics of militarization, surveillance migration, the role of media in globalization, and the dissemination of images and the culture surrounding it. Steyerl has pushed both the role and the label of fine artist, which is demonstrated through her tendencies and interests in engaging the presentational context of art. Her work is developed from research, interviews, and the collection of found images, culminating in pedagogically oriented work in the realm of forensic documentaries and dream-like montages.

In recent years, Steyerl's work has expanded to confront the status of images in an increasingly digital world, institutions (including museums), networks, and labor. Her work has addressed the topic of corporate sponsorship by engaging with institutions, including Drill in 2019 at the Park Avenue Armory in New York, for which Steyerl revealed histories connecting the building hosting the exhibition with the founding of the National Rifle Association. On the topic of private funding, Steyerl has expressed: 'Ultimately, it will be important to move beyond protests against individuals and try to frame the problems more generally in terms of a new charter for the art world: a set of principles that include different aspects, like pay, sponsorship, governance, transparency standards, representation, sustainability, and so on, like a new deal for museums.' In April 2019, Hito Steyerl incorporated an interactive app into her exhibition at London’s Serpentine Galleries, titled 'Power Plants', which used augmented reality to display floating data, text, and graphs around the museum space, highlighting inequalities in South Kensington, London, and erasing the Sackler name from the Serpentine Sackler Gallery entrance as a commentary on power structures in contemporary technology. Steyerl employs increasingly complex approaches to pixelation within the digital sphere, editing, digital graphics, and video installation architecture.

Solo exhibitions
Steyerl has had numerous solo exhibitions, including:

 * Hito Steyerl, Chisenhale Gallery, London (2010)
 * Hito Steyerl, E-flux, New York (2012)
 * Hito Steyerl, Art Institute of Chicago, (2012)
 * Hito Steyerl, Van Abbemuseum, Eindhoven, Netherlands (2014)
 * Hito Steyerl, Institute of Contemporary Arts, London (2014)
 * En defensa de la imagen pobre ("In defense of the poor image") and Arte, control y dominación. 3 películas de Hito Steyerl ("Art, control and domination. 3 films of Hito Steyerl"), MUNTREF as part of the Bienal de la Imagen en Movimiento (BIM) (2014)
 * Hito Steyerl, How Not To Be Seen: A Fucking Didactic Educational Installation, Andrew Kreps Gallery, New York (2014)
 * Hito Steyerl, Artists Space, New York (2015)
 * Hito Steyerl, Left To Our Own Devices, KOW, Berlin (2015)
 * Hito Steyerl, Duty-Free Art, Museo Nacional Centro de Arte Reina Sofía, Madrid (2015)
 * Hito Steyerl, Factory of the Sun, Museum of Contemporary Art, Los Angeles (2016)
 * Hito Steyerl, Factory of the Sun, Hartware MedienKunstVerein in the Dortmunder U, Dortmund, Germany (2016)
 * Hito Steyerl, The City of Broken Windows, Museo d'Arte Contemporanea Castello di Rivoli, Turin (2018)
 * Hito Steyerl, Power Plants, Serpentine Galleries, London (2019)
 * Hito Steyerl, This is the Future, Art Gallery of Ontario, Toronto, Canada (2020)
 * Hito Steyerl, I Will Survive, Stedelijk Museum, Amsterdam, Netherlands (2022)

Notable works

 * Lovely Andrea (2007)
 * Red Alert (2007)
 * How to Not Be Seen: A Fucking Didactic Educational .MOV File (2013)
 * Is the Museum a Battlefield? (2013)
 * Guards (2012)
 * Liquidity Inc. (2014)
 * Factory of the Sun (2015)
 * Drill (2019)
 * Green Screen (2023)

How Not To Be Seen: A Fucking Didactic Educational .MOV File
In 2013 Steyerl released her video How Not to Be Seen, presenting five lessons in invisibility. These lessons include how to 1. Make something invisible for a camera, 2. Be invisible in plain sight, 3. Become invisible by becoming a picture, 4. Be invisible by disappearing, and 5. Become invisible by merging into a world made of pictures. Many of these methods may seem impossible. How Not to Be Seen is a satirical take on instructional films. Much of the video also deals with surveillance and digital imagery: for example, figures in all black dance around as "pixels," and aerial photography features frequently. Thus, How Not to be Seen becomes a tutorial for invisibility in an age of intense hypersurveillance.

Liquidity, Inc.
Liquidity, Inc., (from 2014) consists of a video and a seating/backdrop installation. The video includes interviews with Jason Wood, a financial-advisor-turned-MMA-fighter, mesmerizing clips of ocean waves, and mock-weather reports from characters in balaclavas. As these visuals swirl around, a metaphor forms between water and images/money/trend in the digital age.

Factory of the Sun
Factory of the Sun, like Liquidity, Inc. deals with finance. In this video, which debuted at the 2015 Venice Biennial, clip art people swarm and create "artificial sunshine" for a bank. The video utilizes light, sunshine, and warmth as motifs as it explores surveillance and mega-finance.

Awards
In 2017, Steyerl was listed by ArtReview as the number one most influential person in the contemporary art world. In 2023, Steyerl was again listed by ArtReview as the number two most influential person in the contemporary art world.

Other awards include:
 * 2010 – NEW:VISION Award, presented by the Copenhagen International Documentary Festival for the film In Free Fall
 * 2015 – EYE Prize, presented by the EYE Film Institute Netherlands and the Paddy & Joan Leigh Fermor Arts Fund
 * 2019 – Käthe Kollwitz Prize
 * 2021 - Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German president, offered Steyerl the Federal Cross of Merit which Steyerl turned down

Select writings
Steyerl is a frequent contributor to online art journals such as E-flux. She has also written:

 * 2007. Steyerl, Hito. "Documentary Uncertainty," in A Prior Magazine Issue #15.
 * 2009. Steyerl, Hito. "The Institution of Critique," in Art and Contemporary Critical Practice: Reinventing Institutional Critique. Mayflybooks/Ephemera. Edited by Gerald Raunig and Gene Ray ISBN 978-1-906948-02-3
 * 2009. Steyerl, Hito. "In Defense of the Poor Image," in E-flux Issue #10.
 * 2010. Steyerl, Hito. "A Thing Like You and Me," in E-flux Issue #15.
 * 2012. Steyerl, Hito, and Berardi, Franco. The Wretched of the Screen. Sternberg Press. ISBN 978-1-934105-82-5.
 * 2014. Steyerl, Hito. Hito Steyerl: Too Much World. Sternberg Press. Edited by Nick Aikens. ISBN 978-3-95679-057-7
 * 2016. Steyerl, Hito. Jenseits der Repräsentation / Beyond Representation: Essays 1999–2009. Walther König. Edited by Marius Babias, contributions by Thomas Elsässer and Simon Sheik. ISBN 978-3-86560-893-2
 * 2016. Steyerl, Hito. "If You Don’t Have Bread, Eat Art!: Contemporary Art and Derivative Fascisms," in E-flux Issue #76.
 * 2017. Steyerl, Hito. Duty Free Art: Art in the Age of Planetary Civil War. Verso. ISBN 978-1-78663-243-2

title: Hito Steyerl


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hollywood English

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. — Xezbeth 18:32, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Hollywood English
Summary to help me and other admins: Votes broke down as follows: 10/14=71%.
 * Delete  9: Angr, RickK, Calton, Uncle G, Megan1967, Postdlf, Lucky 6.9, Kevin Rector, Rossami
 * Keep 4: Zzyzx11, Charles Matthews, Lotsofissues, adamsan
 * Master Thief Garrett's vote appears to be a delete as the article has not improved much.

Page when it was first nominated for deletion: which is different from now in these ways:, that is, with very little added material.

Delete as a neologism. It's certainly true that most American actors don't do British accents well (vice versa is true as well; remember Emma Thompson in Primary Colors?), but "Hollywood English" is not a well-known term for the phenomenon. The claim that the accent in question has a "distinct Australian undertone" is POV, as it probably only sounds Australian to Brits, but not to Australians. The claim that the accent involves "tension on vowels" is meaningless without a definition of "tension"; if tenseness is what's meant, well, probably all accents of English use tenseness as a vowel feature. --Angr/comhrá 20:49, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No credible third party references. Zzyzx11 | Talk 20:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and tag it as . Zzyzx11 | Talk 23:08, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. The content is all true enough. Charles Matthews 20:59, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * But, this article currently does not cite its references or sources. Zzyzx11 | Talk 21:24, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Then tag it as . Zzyzx11 | Talk 23:08, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, calls this 'Fake Brit', which would be a good title (Spike from Buffy - also nice example since he's closer than DvD ever was - no cigar, though).Charles Matthews
 * This is not a neologism entry - but an observation of Hollywood portrayed English accents. Your further reasons are suggestions for improvement of the article.  keep, fix what you want - it seems you have opinions. And a lack of citations is most certainly not a reason to delete in a largely unsupported encyclopedia.   Lotsofissues 21:26, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course it's a neologism: can you point me to four places it's being used? And lack of citations = lack of verifiability = non-encyclopedic = a very good reason to delete. --Calton | Talk 00:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep if expanded/improved, Delete if not. Master Thief Garrett 21:29, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Original research, neologism, POV.  RickK 23:15, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Original research, POV. Smells of a British movie fan's peculiar obsession - kind of like the firm belief among some British movie fans that British character roles are exclusively used for villians in Hollywood movies. --Calton | Talk 00:34, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not persuaded that a concept of Hollywood English actually exists. There are a wide range of individual actors, of varying degrees of ability at imitating foreign accents, and a wide range of characters with different English accents to be portrayed.  There's no single overarching Hollywood English pronunciation standard that they all adhere to.  (Indeed, for the better actors, quite the opposite.)  Zzyzx11 has struck out xyr rationale above, but I echo it for the article as a whole.  I'd like to see sources for this being an actual recognized linguistic concept, on a par with Indian English, Australian English, Scottish English, Irish English, American English, Received pronunciation and others (all of which cite at least one source using the term).  None have as yet been provided, so my vote is currently Delete. Uncle G 00:35, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)
 * Delete, POV, neologism, original research. Megan1967 03:59, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete for all above reasons. Postdlf 06:43, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the Dick van Dyke accent phenomenon alone shows this is not original research. Although there is no single type of Hollywood English accent, the universal awfulness of Americans' attempts to sound 'Briddish' is well known in the UK even if the Yanks are oblivious to it. adamsan 18:19, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Your provincialism is showing. I've seen my fair share of British domestic entertainment (the kind that normally doesn't get to a wide American audience) to know about the near-universal awfulness of British actors attempting American accents. Hint for British actors: Bronx/Brooklyn and Hillbilly are not the only two speech modes available to Americans, even if the Brits are oblivious to it. --Calton | Talk 01:12, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * My point is that this is a known phenomenon and therefore could be a valid article. Your problems with RADA American are for another time. adamsan 09:57, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * My point is that this is a neologism, a pile of original research carrying a load of narrow provincialist axe-grinding with no citeable basis. Clear enough? --Calton | Talk 15:06, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't ask for clarification of your assumptions but thank you for providing it anyway. If it's the limited cite-ability of the term you object to, then perhaps we can arrive at a more acceptable name whence it can be moved. I have already demonstrated the meme value of Mr Van Dyke's Cockney accent and see potential for a valid article. Best wishes adamsan 15:27, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I really need to stop visiting this page anonymously while on Wikivacation. :^)  Anyway, the phenomenon is real enough.  I just don't know what the proper term is, if any.  I was in a stage production of A Christmas Carol about four years ago.  One of the cast members was from London and he absolutely cringed at some of the accents.  Patsy Garrett was in the cast and her Cockney was on the nose.  With a bit of help, I was able to cultivate a pretty good London accent, but it wasn't easy.  Anyway, I'm going delete for the time being because this comes off as original but well-stated research. - Lucky 6.9 03:34, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Kevin Rector (talk) 03:42, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * A Google search on the exact phrase "Hollywood English" returns a fair number of hits but of the first 100, only three refer to an accent and none of the three use the term in the way described in this article. Without an authoritative source, this is a neologism/original research.  Delete.  Rossami (talk) 06:06, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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TVN24

April 19, 2010

TVN24 is a Polish 24-hour commercial news channel, launched on 9 August 2001. Being a part of the TVN Network, TVN24 has been owned since 2018 by US-based media company Warner Bros. Discovery (Discovery, Inc. before 2022). It gained broader popularity after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the US, which was the first major incident to be covered by TVN24. It is available over all digital platforms in Poland (Polsat Box and Platforma Canal+) as well as in most cable networks and some networks in other countries, including USA (Dish Network) and Germany. The audio portion of the channel can be streamed on the internet.

Launched on 30 November 2012, TVN24 is the longest-established HD news channel in Poland and East-Central Europe.

The TVN24 team is also responsible for the TVN flagship newscast, Fakty TVN. During major events (such as September 11 attacks, Pope John Paul II's death,the Polish presidential plane crash, Lex TVN controversy and Russian invasion of Ukraine), TVN24 is retransmitted by TVN which has much wider broadcast range.

On 6 February 2018, the European Commission approved the Discovery (now Warner Bros. Discovery) acquisition deal. Since Liberty Global, which operates pay television services in Poland under the UPC Polska brand, is a major shareholder in Discovery Inc, EU competition law required that Discovery ensures the continued availability of TVN24 and TVN24 BiS to third-party TV providers. Replaced by CNN Polska on today.

Online
TVN24 debuted its news website tvn24.pl on 19 March 2007.

TVN24 HD
A one of TVN's planned channel is a TVN24 HD. Test & official start of the TVN24 HD started on 30 November 2012.

Editorial stance and reception
TVN24 tends to be strongly critical of the Polish government under the Law and Justice (PiS) party. Historian and columnist Timothy Garton Ash has praised Fakty TVN, writing that it is far more professional than Telewizja Polska's (TVP) Wiadomości (News). Ash wrote in 2019: "The Facts is not BBC-style impartial: it clearly favours a more liberal, pro-European Poland and is strongly anti-PiS. But unlike the so-called News, it is still definitely professional, high quality, reality-based journalism."

TVN24 Journalists, reporters and correspondents

 * Anita Werner (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Fakty TVN and Fakty po Faktach (The Facts After the Facts)
 * Katarzyna Kolenda-Zaleska (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Fakty po Faktach (The Facts After The Facts)
 * Piotr Kraśko (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Fakty TVN, Facts about the World (Fakty o Świecie) and Fakty po Faktach (The Facts After The Facts)
 * Marta Kuligowska (TVN24) - Host of Poranek TVN24(TVN24 Morning) and Polska i Świat(Poland and the World)
 * Mateusz Walczak (TVN24, TVN24 BiS) - Host of Fakty o Świecie (Facts About The World)
 * Grzegorz Kajdanowicz (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Fakty TVN, Fakty po południu (The Facts of the Afternoon) and Fakty po Faktach (The Facts After the Facts)
 * Piotr Marciniak (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Fakty TVN, Fakty po południu (The Facts at the Afternoon) and Fakty po Faktach (The Facts After the Facts)
 * TVN24 van satellite Mercedes.jpg]]Konrad Piasecki (TVN24) - Host of Rozmowa Piaseckiego (Piasecki's Interview) and Kawa na Ławę (Coffee on the Bench)
 * Diana Rudnik (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Fakty TVN, Fakty po południu (The Facts in the Afternoon) and Fakty po Faktach (The Facts After the Facts)
 * Maciej Mazur (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - Host of Ranking Mazura (Mazur's Ranking)
 * Maciej Sokołowski (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - TVN24 correspondent to Brussels, Belgium
 * Maciej Woroch (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - TVN24 correspondent for London, England, United Kingdom
 * Marcin Wrona (TVN24 Fakty TVN) - TVN24 correspondent for Washington, D.C., United States
 * Andrzej Zaucha (TVN24, Fakty TVN) - TVN24 correspondent to Kyiv, Ukraine and Moscow, Russia
 * Wojciech Bojanowski (TVN24, CNN)
 * Tomasz Sianecki (TVN24) - Host and commentator of Szkło kontaktowe(Contact Lens)
 * Piotr Jacoń (TVN24) - Host of the Fakty po południu (the Facts at the Afternoon), Serwis Informacyjny TVN24 (TVN24 News Service) and Dzień po dniu (The Day after the Day)
 * Helicopter TVN 24 blekitny.jpgir Wit (TVN24) - TVN24 correspondent in Sejm of the Republic of Poland, host of Bez Kitu(Without Kit)
 * Agata Adamek (TVN24) - Host of the Jeden na Jeden (One on One), W Kuluarach(In the Lobby) and Tak Jest(Yes, It Is!)
 * Andrzej Morozowski (TVN24) - Host of the Tak Jest(Yes, It Is!) and Loża Prasowa (Press Lounge)
 * Alina Makarchuk (TVN24, Espreso TV) - TVN24 correspondent to Kyiv, Ukraine
 * Oleh Biletskiy (TVN24, Espreso TV) - TVN24 correspondent for Kyiv, Ukraine

title: TVN24


text:
Buttermilk (disambiguation)

Buttermilk is a type of liquid dairy product, but can also refer to:

Animals

 * Buttermilk (horse) (1941–1972), appeared in numerous American Western films with cowgirl star Dale Evans
 * Buttermilk Sky, Nigerian Dwarf goat and 2012 Internet viral video sensation

Music

 * "Buttermilk" was a single by Sly Stone, released on the Autumn records label in 1965
 * "Ole Buttermilk Sky" a song covered by The Page Boys

Places in the United States

 * Buttermilk, Arkansas
 * Buttermilk, Kansas
 * Buttermilk, Missouri
 * Buttermilk Channel, New York
 * Buttermilk (ski area), part of the Aspen/Snowmass resort complex in Colorado
 * The Buttermilks, also known as the Buttermilk country, near Bishop, California

title: Buttermilk (disambiguation)


text:
James Tour

James Mitchell Tour is an American Christian, chemist and nanotechnologist. He is a Professor of Chemistry, Professor of Materials Science and Nanoengineering at Rice University in Houston, Texas.

Education
Tour received degrees from Syracuse University (BS, 1981), Purdue University (PhD, 1986 under Ei-ichi Negishi) and completed postdoctoral work at the University of Wisconsin–Madison (1986–1987) and Stanford University (1987–1988).

Career
Tour's work is primarily focused on carbon materials chemistry and nanotechnology. Tour's work on carbon materials encompasses fullerene purification, composites,  conductive inks for radio frequencies identification tags,  carbon nanoreporters for identifying oil downhole,  graphene synthesis from cookies and insects, graphitic electronic devices,  carbon particle drug delivery for treatment of traumatic brain injury,  the merging of 2D graphene with 1D nanotubes to make a conjoined hybrid material, a new graphene-nanotube 2D material called rebar graphene, graphene quantum dots from coal, gas barrier composites, graphene nanoribbon deicing films, supercapacitors and battery device structures,  and water splitting to H2 and O2 using metal chalcogenides.

In addition, Tour has conducted research on the synthesis of graphene oxide, its mechanism of formation, and its use in capturing radionuclides from water. Tour has developed oxide-based electronic memories that can also be transparent and built onto flexible substrates. His group has also developed the use of porous metal structures to make renewable energy devices including batteries and supercapacitors, as well as electronic memories.

More recently, the Tour group's discovery of laser-induced graphene (LIG) has spurred innovations including an array of device structures made from LIG foams. His lab's discovery of the flash graphene process in 2019 for the 10-millisecond bulk formation of graphene from carbon sources including coal, petroleum coke, biochar, food waste and mixed plastic waste, has implications in environmental stewardship through materials and waste upcycling.

Tour worked in molecular electronics and molecular switching molecules. He pioneered the development of the Nanocar, single-molecule vehicles with four independently rotating wheels, axles, and light-activated motors. Tour was the first to show that Feringa-based motors can be used to move a molecule on a surface using light as opposed to electric current from an STM tip. His early career focused upon the synthesis of conjugated polymers and precise oligomers.

Tour has also been involved in scientific outreach, such as NanoKids, an interactive learning DVD to teach children fundamentals of chemistry and physics. He also developed SciRave, a Dance Dance Revolution and Guitar Hero package to teach science concepts to middle school and elementary school students. He has testified before the US Congress on two occasions to warn about budget cuts.

In the Scientific American article "Better Killing Through Chemistry", which appeared a few months after the September 11 attacks, Tour highlighted the ease of obtaining chemical weapon precursors in the United States.

Tour is on the board and working with companies including Weebit (silicon oxide electronic memory), Dotz (graphene quantum dots), Zeta Energy (batteries), NeuroCords (spinal cord repair), Xerient (treatment of pancreas cancer), LIGC Application Ltd. (laser-induced graphene), Nanorobotics (molecular nanomachines in medicine), Universal Matter Ltd. (flash graphene synthesis), Roswell Biotechnologies (molecular electronic DNA sequencing), and Rust Patrol (corrosion inhibitors).

Tour's lab's research into graphene scaffolding gel has been shown to repair spinal cords of paralyzed mice.

Tour has about 650 research publications and over 200 patents, with an H-index > 170 with total citations over 130,000 (Google Scholar, as of November 2023).

Awards
Tour was awarded the Royal Society of Chemistry's Centenary Prize for innovations in materials chemistry with applications in medicine and nanotechnology. Tour was inducted into the National Academy of Inventors in 2015.

He was named among "The 50 most Influential Scientists in the World Today" by TheBestSchools.org in 2014.

Tour was named "Scientist of the Year" by R&D Magazine in 2013. Tour won the ACS Nano Lectureship Award from the American Chemical Society in 2012. Tour was ranked one of the top 10 chemists in the world over the past decade by Thomson Reuters in 2009.

That year, he was also made a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

In 2005, Tour's journal article "Directional Control in Thermally Driven Single-Molecule Nanocars" was ranked the Most Accessed Journal Article by the American Chemical Society.

Tour has twice won the George R. Brown Award for Superior Teaching at Rice University in 2007 and 2012.

In 2016, Tour was listed as an ISI highly cited researcher.

Opposition to evolution and origin of life studies
Tour became a born-again Christian in his first year at Syracuse and identifies as a Messianic Jew. Tour signed the Scientific Dissent from Darwinism, a statement issued by the Discovery Institute disputing the scientific consensus on evolution, but, in spite of the Discovery Institute's promotion of the pseudoscience of intelligent design, Tour does not consider himself to be an intelligent design proponent. According to The New Yorker, Tour said his signing of the "Dissent" "reflected only his personal doubts about how random mutation occurs at the molecular level... [and] that, apart from a habit of praying for divine guidance, he feels that religion plays no part in his scientific work."

title: James Tour


text: User talk:70.97.206.129

title: User talk:70.97.206.129


text:
Talk:Association of Vineyard Churches

Where did all the content go?
Well, I can't claim to be an experienced wikipedian, but I'm pretty sure that the edits that 76.28.178.11 made today were against the rules. I'll just see if I can undo them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.5.200.111 (talk) 21:05, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

NPOV tag on Criticism section
Tdkocher added this tag on April 12, but has not made any subsequent changes or added any explanation to this page regarding this tag. While I think the section could use a little cleanup, I don't see how it makes the article non-NPOV. If no one disputes the removal of this tag within a reasonable amount of time, I'll remove it. Jhortman (talk) 16:27, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No one has objected to this change, so I'm removing the tag for now. If re-adding the tag at a later date, please post justification as to why in this space. Jhortman (talk) 02:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I added the tag specifically to address the fact that, while Hanegraaf's specific points are laid out, the Vineyard's response to his book, as well as responses by individuals independent of the Vineyard, are not included and laid out in a similar fashion. Perhaps a "response to criticism" section should be added, but at this point the criticism section does not give a fair representation of the disagreement between Hanegraaf and the Vineyard. Tdkocher (talk) 02:50 26 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I think you should substantiate your criticism by either adding what you think is missing, or clarifying it here on the talk page. Its great that you have an opinion on this - hopefully it will lead to a more accurate article.  Please edit further. Hyper3 (talk) 11:14, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I do think that the size of this section is to large when the rest of the article is taken into consideration. For one thing, the title is somewhat misleading. It says "Criticism and the Toronto Blessing" which at first glance implies that there will be criticism of the Vineyard, but in reality it just talks about criticism of the Toronto Blessing which was under Wimber's umbrella but eventually the two groups parted ways. This leads to my second point: this section is not actually about current criticism of the Vineyard—its about an historical period in the life of the Vineyard movement. Ideally, I'd like to see this section converted into a subsection of the History section which deals with the rise of the Toronto Blessing within the Vineyard and the Vineyard's response to it. Ltwin (talk) 16:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I also appreciate your willingness to help make this article better... it could certainly use it. I think it would help the article more, however, if you could actually make some more substantive edits instead of just "drive-by tagging."  For example, I agree with Ltwin that the criticism section could be more effective if subsumed into the History section.  Would you be willing to take a first pass at doing that? Jhortman (talk) 15:10, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I suggest that this section be rewritten to be shorter and easier to understand in relation to Vineyard. More detail criticism of the Toronto Blessing should belong in that article where readers can go if they want to know more. The inclusion of statement about John Wimbers responses should include general information about what he was responding to, not just how and why he responded. The criticism of Toronto Blessing is too off topic to take up such large amounts of this article, in my humble opinion. Was the vineyard movement only criticized for the Toronto Blessing and for no other reason? This section makes it look like this event was the only controversial thing that has happened within the movement. I will work on this article more if there is no one else who will.Flofor15 (talk) 20:46, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

See also: Calvary Chapel
Tdkocher also added Calvary Chapel to the "See also" section. Since Calvary Chapel is referenced in the History section of the page, I see no need to reference it again. Therefore, I'm removing it. Jhortman (talk) 16:27, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Lonnie Frisbee addition
I added Lonnie Frisbee as a "see also" primarily because of his large impact on the Vineyard during its beginning stages. Please respond here first if you have an issue with this addition. Tdkocher (talk) 02:56 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Given his significant work in the early Vineyard Movement, he probably deserves more than just a "See Also" mention. If you're willing to edit the History section as we discussed above, it would be great if you could also add some content regarding Frisbee's role in the church.  (There is already a small base of well-sourced content in the Lonnie Frisbee wiki article.)  Jhortman (talk) 15:18, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Shift to Egalitarianism after Wimbers death
I've had a degree of involvement with the vineyard church over the years. I'm wondering if it's worth adding a section mentioning the shift in theology from Complementarianism to Egalitarianism in the Vineyard church since Wimber's death.

Note the section in John Wimber's wiki page below on his views on gender. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wimber

See reference below, this was referenced in the article above. http://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-12-No-2/Women-in-Ministry-in-the-Vineyard-USA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.16.236.14 (talk) 15:48, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * As long as any statements regarding the Vineyard's theological positions can be referenced by independent, reliable sources, then please do. (Remember that no original research is permitted, as well.) I believe the CBMW link you posted is probably not a reliable reference because it is an organization dedicated to promoting the Egalitarianism viewpoint. Religion, like politics, is an unusual subject, though, so the CBMW link might be ok, after all... it would be good to have more discussion on that issue.  It would definitely be better if you could also use a more neutral reference in addition to the CBMW link, though. -Jhortman (talk) 22:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

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Category
Hi, I have noticed that none of the pentegostal categories are present in this article. Could someone please explain to me why? 143.176.56.102 (talk) 21:16, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Probably because the Vineyard is not a Pentecostal denomination. It is considered by most Third Wave charismatic evangelical denomination. One of the categories listed is charismatic denominations. Ltwin (talk) 23:04, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Are there any sources to verify this? Other editors on the Dutch wikipedia are confinced that it is a Pentecostal denomination. They have placed three pentecostal categories on the wiki article about the Association of Vineyard Churches. 143.176.56.102 (talk) 23:40, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * In English, "Pentecostalism" refers to classical Pentecostalism. Related movements that developed after the 1950s are referred to as "Charismatic". That is the framework used on Pentecostalism, Charismatic Christianity, the Charismatic Movement, and the Neocharismatic articles. Ltwin (talk) 21:59, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Statements on sexuality
I've removed a full-text quotation of primary material regarding Vineyard policies on human sexuality. Please follow the Do not include the full text of lengthy primary sources guideline in the future. It would be more appropriate in an encyclopedia to write a summary statement about Vineyard theology and/or policies and then cite the sources on which the summary is based. UnsoundMethodology (talk) 02:25, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I added a short statement with a citation of the source. I've not kept up on my Wikipedia skills though so if there is anything I should have done differently there please let me know. Adamundefined (talk) 22:54, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Content about "The Network"
I believe that content about The Network should be deleted from this article. The events detailed have nothing to do with Vineyard Churches and are only related because The Network's founder was previously a Vineyard pastor. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

 * This is a controversy within The Network because of the practices which developed within this sub-group of the Vineyard. These were in fact Vineyard churches, which later broke away. That is the nature of the controversy. CarbondatedBeverage (talk) 21:59, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, The Network broke off from the Vineyard churches, but did the pattern of bad behavior start before or after the split, and was it responsible for the split? Or is the bad behavior not tied to the Vineyard in any way other than that their former brethren formed a bad church after they left? WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 22:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * According to the stories published by former members the bad behavior started before they broke away. Another part of the controversy is that the Vineyard hired him with his arrest background. Perhaps this could be expanded on and linked to a dedicated page. CarbondatedBeverage (talk) 22:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

CarbondatedBeverage and Anti-Cancel-Culture, you both need to stop with the POV agenda pushing and edit warring. I've restored the article to the status quo from before all the back and forth and POV edit warring started today. Talk it out here, come to an agreement, reach a consensus, and stop disruptive editing through reverts. Both of you are on the way to an edit warring block OR possibly the article being locked for a time with the version neither of you agree with. It's your choice, each of you. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 (talk) 01:11, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Thank you, @Alaska4Me2. I did not mean to engage in edit warring. I came in earlier today to add a detail, and made an edit but didn’t cite it, which @Anti-Cancel-Culture rightly called out as not being cited, rolling back my change. They made the right call. I came back and added the citation, but, in the end, didn’t feel the detail fit the content of this page, even properly cited. I reverted my edits on my own. I do not think anything needs added to this page. I value your feedback. CarbondatedBeverage (talk) 01:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for responding and doing so kindly. Battling in Wikipedia is a bad idea all around and creates a bad taste in everyone's mouth.  Easy to engage in and then harder to stop doing once everyone's dander gets up.  Maybe wait a week or so, see if the edits you wanted to make are really "better" and then reevaluate.  I would also encourage reaching out to the other editor to see if you can collaborate with some compromising on each side.  You probably both want for the article to be better, and that's a common place which makes for a good starting platform. A4M2 Alaska4Me2 (talk) 02:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Association of Vineyard Churches


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nice one:

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Talk:Protein/Aragorn2 2005 04 24

Hello, User:jag123, here are my replies to your recent posts on Talk:Protein.

I have since rewritten the paragraphs in question and made sure that POVs are discernible as POVs. In the following, unindented paragraphs are your words, and indented ones are mine.

I was more interested in references re: the minimum amount of proteins needed.

 * Is that better? It's not the WHO, but it's the UN and it seems rather detailed.
 * Here are some parts I find particularily interesting:

 * This page states that human milk contains even less utilizable nitrogen than originally believed since about a fourth of it is non-protein nitrogen, and only 10-20% of that can be used to form protein in the infant's body: "The proportion of non-protein nitrogen (NPN) in human milk, about 20-27% of total nitrogen, is large as compared to most other species" ... "These have shown that about 10-20% of this nitrogen is utilizable.". To sum it up, that means that human milk has the lowest nitrogen content of all mammals, and a larger portion of that than in most species cannot be utilized for protein synthesis.
 * Figure 12 of this page is also interesting. The two pillars to the right of each block indicate protein synthesis and protein breakdown, rsp.. You'll note that for any of the various protein intakes (0.36g/kg/d up to 2.07g/kg/d) protein synthesis overweighs breakdown, which means there is no loss of body protein. So 0.36g/kg/d is more than "maintenance level". For a 75kg man who eats 2500kcal/d, that would correspond to 27g of protein a day, at 4.3% of total calories. The average strict vegetarian in Western countries, however, consumes 14% protein calories, only slightly below the 17% of an omnivore.

The McDougall reference (hardly neutral, by the way)

 * What's neutral in your opinion? The official recommendations by the USFDA, which are almost twice that minimum established above? Still, they recommend a protein intake of only at least 8%, almost half your figure of up to 15%!

doesn't even reference the WHO, it just says they said so-and-so. In any event, I'll use the value you quote, 37g. According to reference [7],, someone would have to consume 12 cups of human milk to meet their protein requirement. That's just shy of 3kg.

 * The point of this link was primarily to display the absurdity of the "official" numbers from the USFDA. You'll note that in order to meet this recommendation, you'd have to ingest 20 cups of human milk a day, or 5kg. This, in turn, would leave you with too much food energy (by 40% if your daily energy requirements are 2500kcal!), though, so you'd gain fat in the attempt, in effect about 2.5kg of fatty tissue a month. In a year or two you'd look like a balloon.

Sure, that sounds like a lot, but it's not a big feat considering it's mostly water. As for the lettuce, according to, a head of lettuce (360g) gives me 5g of proteins. Sure, 22% of the calories come from protein, which sounds really nice, but only 1.4% of the total weight is protein.

 * More than in human milk, even by mass, I might add.

I'd have to eat 7 heads of lettuce per day to get the daily minimum of protein, and that would only give me 400 calories! Personally, I'd rather drink 3kg of milk. But that's besides the point.

 * This is funny - you say that drinking milk all day would be fine since it's mostly water, but in effect lettuce is over 90% water, too. On Thursday (IIRC) I performed a little self-experiment by eating nothing but a head of lettuce (with some oil, which you'll agree is devoid of protein) for breakfast. About an hour later I had an empty stomach and was very hungry again. This means I should be easily able to eat 7 heads of lettuce a day, though of course I find it wiser to just continue my "normal" diet of fruit, vegetables, grains, legumes, nuts, oil seeds and mushrooms, and products derived from them, just like most strict vegetarians. As for protein combining, I used to do this when becoming a SV only to realize a while later that it's an absolutely ridiculous waste of time! I didn't lose a grain of muscle since becoming a SV, and neither since abandoning all efforts of combining grains and legumes, or grains and buckwheat and this kind of things. I did lose fat, though, but I'll stop here because I don't have the time to list every positive effect on my health that shunning meat, fish, milk and eggs had.

 * As for the lack of food energy, some oil would surely fix the problem, but that's still besides the point. The point was that protein requirements can easily by eating a variety of plant foods. In effect, only certain fruit (e.g. apples at about 2.5%, and mangos at about 3% protein per kcal), as well as the "empty foods" mentioned before, fail to provide more than the 4.3% protein mentioned above.

 * Here is a link from the WHO. It does not mention protein recommendations, but they do say protein-energy malnutrition (emphasis mine). Protein-deficiency where energy needs are met is unknown even in developing countries.

You're right that eating only gummy bears would leave me malnutrionned. However, the important difference is that no one really claims, nor is it generally associated to be a good idea, to eat nothing but gummy bears.

 * Funny, I've never heard of a vegetarian who eats nothing but lettuce either, or claims that it was a good idea. Did you?

There are a lot of warnings regarding eating a lot of meat as well, but there is nothing even remotely similar regarding vegeterianism.

 * And why should it? Eating a lot of meat is known to cause a broad spectrum of diseases, for example gout, arthrosis, atherosclerosis, kidney failure, colon cancer (actually, even eating just a little meat drastically increases the risk of colon cancer) and hemochromatosis. I'm sure I forgot some.

If I decide to eat nothing but salad all day, I *will* become malnourished (unless I can eat seven heads a day, and even then it's extremely hypocaloric), and everyone will tell me "Eating vegetables is good. Keep it up".

 * No, if they hear that you eat nothing but salad (that is, lettuce), they'll tell you do get a more varied diet quickly! (see Straw man)

You pretty much prove the point when your take on my salad-only diet was "It's better than eating just gummy bears". If I was someone who used a lot of energy, like a physically-demanding job, then frankly, I'd rather eat only gummy bears.

 * I wonder how long you could keep up a physically-demanding job on a zero tryptophan diet. Anyway, in case you didn't notice, we're discussing the relative merits of caricatures. You came up with a caricature of a strict vegetarian who eats nothing but lettuce, and I came up with a caricature of an omnivore who eats nothing but gummy bears. It's both equally realistic.

At least my body wouldn't resort to breaking down muscle protein for energy.

 * From : When an essential amino acid was given in insufficient amounts for approximately two days, all subjects complained bitterly of similar symptoms: a clear increase in nervous irritability, extreme fatigue, and a profound failure of appetite.
 * Obviously, this is worse than fasting, which does not cause fatigue or irritability for at least a week in a normal-weight person. The body obviously assumes that it gets sufficient EAAs since it gets sufficient calories, which turned out to be wrong under the artificial circumstances of this experiment.

Having said all that, how can you say that "careful to eat combiniations of food" is misleading or a half-truth? --jag123 07:32, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * That was not the wording. The points of contention were (for me, personally):
 * incomplete proteins lack or contain only a very small proportion of one or more - "contain only a very small proportion" wrt to plant proteins is obviously total nonsense (I posted some PDCAAS before).
 * When protein is listed on a nutrition label it only refers to the amount of complete proteins in the food - This was provably false.
 * Animal-derived foods contain all of those amino acids, while plants are typically stronger in some acids than others. - The first part was misleading for one (e.g. gelatine, soy and sweet lupins don't fit into this scheme), the second part is just line noise because it's true for any food.
 * Complete proteins can be made in an all vegan diet by eating a sufficient variety of foods and by getting enough calories. - The first part suggests that it is necessary to get protein only in the form of "complete" protein (which it is not, this only means that some more than the bare minimum needs be consumed). The second part has nothing to do with protein "completeness" as determined by the PDCAAS.
 * It was once thought that in order to get the complete proteins vegans needed to do protein combining by getting all amino acids in the same meal (the most common example is eating beans with rice) but nutritionists now know that the benefits of protein combining can be achieved over a longer period of time. - Nutritionists (ok, those who actually bothered investigating the issue) now know that protein combining is all bollocks and redundant. I didn't state that as a fact, but I've made sure to point out that this is the POV of most SVs.
 * Ovo-lacto vegetarians usually do not have this problem, since egg's white and cow's milk contain all essential amino acids. - This is once again misleading. For one, what about SVs that consume soy and sweet lupins? And second, what if "incomplete" protein, e.g. cereal protein overweighs? Then the total PDCAAS would be below one despite the consumption of milk and/or eggs. But of course, it's irrelevant since humans can thrive on "incomplete" protein.
 * Protein deficiency can lead to symptoms such as fatigue, insulin resistance, hair loss, loss of hair pigment (hair that should be black becomes reddish), loss of muscle mass (proteins repair muscle tissue), low body temperature, and hormonal irregularities. Severe protein deficiency is fatal. This is all true, but, especially in combination with the previous paragraphs, it's also totally misleading, since it helps perpetuate the same old myth that SVs would die of protein deficiency or at least suffer hair loss, fatigue and so on as a consequence (which, obviously, they don't). I added , encountered only in times of famine, to clarify that a little.

Sure, spinach may have 30% proteins, but you'd neet to eat almost 1kg of it to meet the daily needs quoted above.

 * So what? Again, it's more than 90% water. At a German supermarket chain, a pound of deep-frozen chopped spinach is sold in packets roughly 6"x5" in size. It's quickly digested and not even half a meal. BTW, I don't recommend getting all your protein from spinach. You'd probably suffer a Vitamin K hypervitaminosis. It was an example of how a varied diet that may contain spinach or other protein-rich vegetables, can easily provide for human protein needs.

By contrast, one can (~110g) of tuna gives me 27g of protein.

 * So do 200g of tofu, along with a fraction of the mercury. Does it matter? Only if that was your only food in a day.

Unless you have studies (from a serious establishment [ie: not the McDougall newsletter]) regarding protein content of vegetarian diets, with a decent population size, then I don't know how you can say that it "simply isn't true".

 * Why should vegetarians be obliged to prove their innocence? (see Shifting the burden of proof)
 * Why don't you come up with any credible evidence that vegetarians are suffering from protein deficiency?

Back in high school, I knew a lot of girls who went vegetarian, and most of them did not eat nearly enough proteins,

 * That's interesting. How did you arrive at this diagnosis?

let alone calories, so I seriously question the veracity of your claims.

 * I claim that a reasonably varied plant-only diet which meets caloric demands provides enough protein. So, no, anorexics do not disprove my claim.

I have no doubt it may be unheard of, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Getting scurvy is unheard of, but it did happen to a college student in the United States about two years ago.

 * I think this warrants a warning against scurvy in omnivores on the Vitamin C page, since no animal food contains decent levels of vitamin C. Oh, wait, The Straight Dope says that Eskimos got vitamin C from the skin of beluga whales, also called "muktuk". How many US-Americans eat muktuk on a regular basis? Do you happen to know any studies regarding that?

 * The next consequence would be to warn against scurvy in strict vegetarians that consume non-sprouted cereal grains and legumes, since these also contain little vitamin C.

 * We could even invent "arguments" like "But if I was a strict vegetarian and ate nothing but white bread, wouldn't I begin to suffer from scurvy?"

I don't see this as a pursuit of NPOV.

 * Yes, because the article's (previous) POV matches your POV, which is that humans had protein requirements (I take your figure of up to 15% of calories as a minimum) comparable to that of canines (I've seen recommendations of "at least 15% protein" for adult dogs).

You seem to want to add that eating too much proteins is bad to counterbalance the supposedly "non-neutral" claim that vegetarians should be careful to eat appropriate combinations of food.

 * Vegetarians, no, everyone should eat a variety of foods, but there is no need to combine proteins.

So far though, regarding your points, all I've seen is that "it's simply unheard of" for vegans to not have enough proteins, without anything to back it up. I know it's possible because I've met many vegetarians/vegans who weren't eating right at all, and wouldn't have to look very far to find more.

 * How did they suffer from protein deficiency? What did they eat and what symptoms did they display? Pray, tell!

Much as the case is here, it's nigh impossible to say anything bad about it, or even suggest improvements, because if it's green and it grows in dirt, then it's just got to be good.

 * You are the first to claim that in this discussion (another straw man).

By the way, I accepted the 37g of proteins because a higher value wasn't necessary, but personally, I find this extremely low.

 * It's almost twice the minimum as established through experimentation!

For all I know, that figure could be the minimum protein intake to basically survive.

 * The 20g figure is the figure where protein deficiency symptoms ceased in Dr. Rose's experiments.

I'd rather stick with the 10-15% of total calorie intake that is recommended.

 * 100.000.000 lemmings can't be wrong?

Although there was some talk about amino acids, there was nothing about lysine, which is the limiting AA in human diet, and especially a concern in vegetarian diets.

 * Lysine is not the limiting AA in "human diet". Every kind of food has its own limiting AA. Legumes and buckwheat oversupply lysine, and it still doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to research all of this right now, but there isn't a shadow of doubt in my mind that many vegetarians out there don't eat right.

 * Doubtless - there are. Protein deficiency is probably not one of their problems, though. Many, having been conned into the protein myth, consume too much tofu and soy milk.

Don't assume that every vegetarian out there knows the difference between an amino acid and battery acid.

 * It's unnecessary to know about these things if a variety of plant foods are eaten and energy requirements are met. Whether you're a vegetarian or not.

It seems you want to remove the statement because *some* vegans who actually know what they are doing eat right.

 * This is so hilarious. I feel with you since I used to believe in the same fairy tales, but I've actually tried it myself and performed a lot of research, and protein just isn't an issue! THERE IS NO NEED TO BE AWARE OF PROTEIN COMBINING!

That's like saying Westerners should continue to eat junk food because some of them do, and they are thin. --jag123 02:30, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * No, it's more like you saying that tomatoes cause BSE without any data to back it up.

If you tell me you eat a salad for lunch five times a week, and pasta, rice or can of baked beans for dinner, you're barely ingesting at most (with the beans) 40g of protein daily. You don't need a lab or sophisticated equipment to calculate the protein content, just a little mental math.

 * Well, my mental math tells me that a bowl of salad and a can of baked beans don't even add up to 600kcal! Pasta is made from durum wheat, which at 14% is high in protein.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but 10-15% of calorie = protein is often stated (I won't say established) and I have found the warning in many places, including a federal health agency.

 * Which is an argument from authority. Or do you care to provide the empirical data (sic) that these recommendations ought to be derived from?

The latter is true, but an omnivore is benefiting from macro-concentration, unlike the vegetarian.

 * What the hell is "macro-concentration" supposed to mean, and why don't vegetarians "benefit" from it?

You want to remove it because there are no epidemiological studies, fine, but that's really weak

 * Yes. Removing a claim because there's no evidence for it - how weak, indeed.

When was PDCAAS discussed? I see a statement that soy and sweet lupine have a PDCAAS of 1 with "this" mistake corrected (of course, no reference for the mistake). So what if if soy and sweet lupine have a PDCAAS of 1? Does every vegan consume 37g of soy protein or lupin every day?

 * The UN figures aren't specific to protein composition. That is, they already contain substantial leeway for a PDCAAS of below one. The WHO recommendation is actually twice the requirement I established above. So your question should be "does every (50kg) vegan consume 18g of not necessarily complete protein a day"? Let's say our hypothetical vegan ate nothing but rice, at about 8% protein and a PDCAAS of 0.5. At 1650kcal that would mean 33g of protein a day. So unless the requirements were derived from examining a diet (in a developing country!) with a total PDCAAS of at least 92%, that vegan would get enough protein according to the UN's figures.

Besides, that statement does show that some vegans do have marginal protein intakes, which, to me, only supports leaving the notice in the article.

 * Marginal according to the inflated official recommendations (USFDA or worse).

Calculating protein requirements for a high school girl who weights 110 pounds with a sedentary lifestyle is not a worst case example, it's a best-case example.

 * How do you arrive at this conclusion?

This is a worst case example: 80kg male who needs 3500-4000 kcal/day. That's 60g of protein, according to the FAO/WHO and 88g if we use the 10% of calorie figure.

 * The 10% figure is ridiculously inflated. At 4000kcal/day, eating only rice, you'd arrive at 80g protein. According to the UN figures, nitrogen balance is reached at 28.8g daily protein intake for an 80kg man. The UN figures assume a BV of about 0.6 to 0.7, which means ca. 20g complete protein. Rice has a BV of ca. 0.5, which means 40g complete protein. Seems to me the danger of a kidney overload is very real. ;-p

(I use tofu because soy protein has a PDCAAS of 1.)

 * The USFDA and your imaginary 10% figure don't mention no freaking PDCAAS.

To be part of the group of veg. in which protein deficiency is unheard of,

 * Only if protein deficiency was defined as "less than whatever specious claims are made about people's protein requirements".

For me to get enough proteins from a veg. diet, I'd have to actually sit down and seriously research thngs to determine what meals to prepare to suit my needs.

 * Yes, that's what I thought (and did), too, before actually trying it.

So why is it so hard for you to accept that it's possible for a vegetarian to not eat enough protein?

 * It's possible for vegetarians. It's possible for omnivores. What you failed to show was actual cases.

I should be kept in the dark because typical vegans (who probably have more insight on their diet than I, or are less active) appear to meet or exceed requirements? How is that a better scenario for me?

 * That's a good point, and I think it's best solved the way I did it - by keeping the POVs, but making sure that everyone sees that they're controversial.

Perhaps the article should include more information on when and why this might be a concern.

 * Indeed. Vegetarianism is not amongst. Famine and alcoholism come to mind.

Nutrition care professionals should be aware that protein needs might be higher than the RDA in vegetarians,

 * Sheesh. Goes to show that even the ADA doesn't know it better.
 * Let's recapitulate:
 * The UN figures (see the last diagram) give a 0.36g/kg/d requirement at a total dietary BV of only about 0.6 to 0.7.
 * The USFDA recommends a minimum about 2.3 times that (about 0.84g/kg/d if we use the 63g for an adult man figure, with a normal weight of ca. 75kg), for undisclosed reasons.
 * And now "nutrition care professionals" (sic) say that vegetarians' needs might be higher than the RDA without even considering how the RDA was actually established.
 * Sure, it's an interesting proposition, albeit not a very logical one.

 * As a final point - spent enough time on this answer already, but, well, I learned more interesting things about protein requirements - I found your "80kg male comment" highly refreshing, because, well, I happen to be a lean 6', 90kg male. And at 18" upper arm circumference left and right, after not having consumed animal protein in almost 6 months, I'm not aware of any "protein deficiency" of mine, thank you, even though I get a lot of my calories from fruit and fruit juices, as well as some candy and vegetable oil. I eat pulses and soy products on an irregular base. So you can surely understand I find that protein hype-thingy rather amusing.

 * Best regards, Aragorn2 20:52, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * PS: I donated blood recently and had a normal hemoglobin count. Just in case you wanted to come up with more myths about SVs.

title: Talk:Protein/Aragorn2 2005 04 24


text:
John McFarland (Medal of Honor)

John C. McFarland (1840 – October 3, 1881) was a sailor in the United States Navy and a recipient of the Medal of Honor for his actions in the Battle of Mobile Bay during the American Civil War.

Biography
McFarland entered the Navy at Boston, Massachusetts on December 24, 1861, as seaman on USS Ohio (1820), later transferring to USS Hartford (1858) in the West Gulf Blockading Squadron. Rated captain of the forecastle, he had the station at the wheel in every engagement in which Hartford participated. During the Battle of Mobile Bay 4 and August 5, 1864. McFarland left his sickbed to take up station, keeping the wheel of Admiral David Farragut's flagship throughout the storm of shell and shot. He was commended by his commanding officers for his fortitude and intelligence and was awarded the Medal of Honor for his gallant and meritorious service.

McFarland died on October 3, 1881, at the age of 41.

Namesake
USS McFarland (DD-237) was named for him.

Medal of Honor citation

Rank and Organization:
 * Captain of the Forecastle, U.S. Navy. Born: 1840, Boston, Mass. Accredited to: Massachusetts. G.O. No.: 45, December 31, 1864.

Citation:
 * Stationed at the wheel on board the flagship U.S.S. Hartford during successful action against Fort Morgan, rebel gunboats and the ram Tennessee in Mobile Bay, on 5 August 1864. With his ship under terrific enemy shellfire, McFarland performed his duties with skill and courage and, when the Lackawanna ran into his ship and every man at the wheel was in danger of being crushed, remained steadfast at his station and continued to steer the ship.

title: John McFarland (Medal of Honor)


text:
User talk:Vonspringer

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Zzyzx11 | Talk 20:52, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've replied to your jerkish comment on Wikipedia:Miscellaneous deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject hot chicks. Ambi 05:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah well, I apologize. I thought it was a pretty tame comment myself, but as the politicians say, I have revised and extended my remarks.  I do still stand by the point I made though.Vonspringer 05:56, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No harm done. I saw your vote as being targeted at me for nominating the article; a misunderstanding in hindsight. For the record, I'm not on the arbitration committee anymore, and even if I were, it wouldn't matter an iota (it's not a means for squashing people!). Ambi 07:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

List of shock sites
Someone has put this up for deletion yet again. Care to cast your vote? Skinmeister 10:40, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

While/whilst
I noticed something you said on your user page. Please check out Whilst and Manual of Style. It is not acceptable to change whilst in an article where the primary language used is commonwealth English as it perfectly acceptable there. Nil Einne 07:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

 * More lengthy response on your talk page. Whilst is generally deprecated in British style manuals as well.Vonspringer 17:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

 * You spelt it wrong again. ;) Also, have you read the Grauniad recently?  Their style guide is there primarily to simplify the English language so that their Journalists can actually create something understandable. ;) --Veratien (talk) 08:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Fixed! Sorry, I use "depreciated" often in my professional life so it tends to get typed when I'm thinking "deprecated". Vonspringer (talk) 19:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Regard your message, using the word 'whilst' as a conjunction will probably be deprecated in Wikipedia's style guide in favour of while, as the Americans seem to think that their way is the only way, thus dealing another blow to the quality of the English language. --Veratien (talk) 14:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Image:Jan Hendrik Schön.jpg
Thanks for the message. Yes I upoladed it some time ago. It appears that now it does not conform to the stricter policy. I will try to find out its copyright status but If I can't and since the scientist is alive I will have to concede this. Bye for now. Dr.K. 02:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. It appears the copyright is held by adp. I think this is a German press agency. In this case I'm afraid that if I tried I'd get some automated reply lecturing me about the inability to release it in the public domain. I'll let this one go I'm afraid. Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless. Dr.K. 03:02, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Physics participation
You received this message because your were on the old list of WikiProject Physics participants.

On 2008-06-25, the WikiProject Physics participant list was rewritten from scratch as a way to remove all inactive participants, and to facilitate the coordination of WikiProject Physics efforts. The list now contains more information, is easier to browse, is visually more appealing, and will be maintained up to date.

If you still are an active participant of WikiProject Physics, please add yourself to the current list of WikiProject Physics participants. Headbomb {ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 16:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest
Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

title: User talk:Vonspringer


text:
User:Odetolethargy

.

title: User:Odetolethargy


text:
Talk:Treaty of friendship and alliance between the Government of Mongolia and Tibet

Untitled
Factuality of the Treaty

Was this Treaty really signed? Or fabricated after 1924? Everton 20:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Does this mean Mongolia still recognises Tibet? Or is that last, enigmatic sentance saying that Mongolia changed its mind about that? Furius 09:06, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

The last sentence was quite unclear, but I believe it refered to the fact that the Republic of China rescinded the recognition of Mongolia - one can still see this from the published official maps of the Republic of China prior to 2003. I do not know the exact status of this treaty, as normally successor states inherit treaty obligations, but I note that it is exceedingly unlikely that the People's Republic of China would have diplomatic relations with a country that continues to recognise Tibet as an independent state.

 * The 13th Dalai Lama himself denied that he has authorized any representavie to negotiate (nor ratify) any treaty with Mongolia. Even if this treaty did exist, such Tibeto-Mongolian mutual recognition was meaningless as the status of the two parties was itself doubtful. Tibet was even willing to sign the 1914 Simla Agreement later which recognized China's suzerainty over Tibet and claimed, in its Appendix, that:

 * "Tibet forms part of Chinese territory".(Point 1, Note Exchange of the Simla Convention, 1914)

 * Furthermore, the Mongolian authority, at least formally, signed the Tripartite Treaty of 1915 with Kuomintang and Russia reaffirming Mongolia's subordination to China:

 *  "Outer Mongolia recognizes China's suzerainty, China and Russia recognize the autonomy of Outer Mongolia forming part of Chinese territory".(Articles 2, Treaty of Kiakhta between China, Mongolia and Russia, 1915)

In Jan 1913, the Russian Foreign Minister, reported the signing of this treaty to the British Ambassador at St. Petersburg, saying the treaty, in his opinion, was not valid; it was nul et non avenu. - So the treaty was signed, wasn't it? Yaan 07:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Its just because the Buriat Monk got no officially-appointed atatus. Their seal and signatures were worthless with no binding effect. MainBody 07:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * But the thing was signed, it is just unclear whether this constitutes the conclusion of a valid teraty. Yaan (talk) 18:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Bell does express some scepticism of whether anything was signed (on p. 228f and arguably on p. 304), but he leaves the question open. Yaan (talk) 12:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

contract??
"and therefore about whether it constitutes a valid contract"

A treaty is not a contract in the ordinary sense of the word, and sub-national entities can conclude agreements falling short of international treaties. Should this be "international treaty" instead of "contract"? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 08:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Possibly. I meant to separate the issues of "Was any treaty document signed" and "Was this treaty ever valid". The first has been put into question by Charles Bell in his 1924 book (but he never visited Mongolia, and also was not just an impartial observer on Tibetan affairs), but is probably solved now (?), the second question is probably more controversial. Yaan (talk) 11:36, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Claims by Prof. Elliot Sperling supported by an interview by Phayul, and an extensive lecture crcuit, indicate that the treaty has lain fallow in a Mongolian archive since last year, and is in fact valid.

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Tibeto-Mongol+Treaty+of+1913%2C+a+proof+of+Tibet%E2%80%99s+independence%3A+Interview&id=23205 Pdxsays (Talk) 03:55, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

 * "An interview by Phayul, and an extensive lecture crcuit" do not "support" anything by themselves. We would need confirmation by independent researchers for that.
 * The surfacing of an originaly copy only proves existence of the treaty, which the article never denied.
 * Whether it was valid under national and intarnational law still remains very much in doubt. Sperling offers a strong opinion about the possible authorisation by the Dalai Lama, but no actual proof. Technically, a ratification from the Tibetan government would need to be presented to really put it in force. --Latebird (talk) 09:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We could now add something like "Occasionally, the mere existence of the treaty has been put into doubt, but in 2007 an original copy surfaced from Mongolian archives". In fact, something like the first part of that sentence had been in the article until it was erased by an IP here. I think Elliot Sperling is independent enough - his employment is with the Indiana University, not with phayul - the question would be whether on WP, an interview is acceptable as a source for facts. Yaan (talk) 14:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

 * That's a good idea, and actually the only tidbit from the interview that isn't already in the article. While at it, I also fixed the incorrect statement that the found document was in Mongolian, because in the image it can be seen that it is in Tibetan instead. An interview should be a valid source, as long as the interviewee is an expert in the field and we can assume that his statements are reproduced accurately (no reason to doubt that here). --Latebird (talk) 15:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Graaah! I just noticed that the Academy of Sciences is supposed to have published something in 1982 already. Was that an original document or just a transcript? The book given as a source is from 1999, so it can't possibly know anything about the new copy from 2007. --Latebird (talk) 15:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I will try to look that up - my guess it's just a transcript (thank god I only wrote "the text" was published - and now it's only "a text"), but in Mongolian language. Right now I am not even sure whether anything in Mongolian was signed, or whether the treaty was only in Tibetan language. My guess is that this Mongolian text is one of the several translations mentioned in the interview, the raw material for the Russian and English translations (IIRC Bell says the English translation was published in 1916). Yaan (talk) 15:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

weaseling re. international recognition of independence
"One year before World War I, the international situation did not allow recognition of Mongolia and Tibet independance by other nations."I think this is misleading. The much more stringent explanation is that neither Russia or the later SU nor Great Britain wanted to make a break in their relations to China over somewhat marginal areas like Tibet or Mongolia. Both Russia and GB were quite content with leaving leaving Mongolia and Tibet only de-facto independent, establishing them as strategic buffers and possibly enjoying some commercial privileges on the way. In any case, the reference to WWI seems somewhat misplaced: international recognition for Mongolia came only after 1945, for Tibet it came never. Yaan (talk) 14:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

 * That phrase is trying to sugar-coat the fact that the big powers really had no interest in too many independent countries in the region. A weak China holding nominal control and permitting foreign manipulation was much more practical. In that sense I agree that it is misleading, or at least not NPOV. it is also mostly redundant to the sentence following it, so I'd suggest removing it again. --Latebird (talk) 20:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I have removed it now. I also removed that bit about treaties from the Qing Dynasty: the Russian-Chinese treaty of 1912 was concluded after the end of said dynasty, and the immediate effects of breaking those treaties on Russian/British interests in Tibet and Mongolia does not seem so clear - it is more probably the Russian resp, British interests within China that made Russia and Britain abstain from recognizing Mongolia's resp. Tibet's independence. Yaan (talk) 15:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


text:
User:David Newton/SVG Graphics/Civil Ensign

This is the SVG for the British civil air ensign.

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