text:
Talk:Finnish mythology

Merge
A lot of the information in Finnish paganism is the same as here. A good deal of it should be moved here (if it's not present already), but I think that certain parts of that article should remain (shamanism, modern revival). --Tydaj 18:32, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Punctuation
The article originally said about the recorded history of Finnish mythology:
 * Surprisingly much more wasn't written down until Elias Lönnrot composed the Kalevala.

Now this struck me as odd - it looks like there could well have been much more recorded history between Agricola and Lönnrot, but only the Kalevala added surprisingly much more. (The Finnish people were greatly surprised!) I edited this to:
 * Surprisingly, much more wasn't written down until Elias Lönnrot composed the Kalevala.

which is closer to the intended meaning. — J I P | Talk 11:22, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
Did a lot of cleaning up and revising, mostly purging modern Neo-Pagan speculation and straightening out the language. BTW, it should be noted that Finns *did* assimilate a lot of deities from the surrounding areas, so comparisons with other mythological figures aren't automatically an attempt to hark back to some mythical shared pantheon. And cleaning speculation up is not some anti-Pagan hatred, just in case someone objects--I'm Pagan myself but would prefer accurate information on various world mythologies and folklore and not idle speculation and pseudohistory. There is very little information to go on when it comes to ancient Finnish religion, despite the amounts of poetry and folklore. I'd love to see some proper sources quoted here as well, such as the Laestadius treatise on Lapp religion. Snowgrouse 18:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Higher standard
Does the introduction to this article not strike anyone as a bit juvenile? It actually sounds bizarrely familiar to the "interchangebale parts" approach to ancient European belief systems summarized on the backs of 99.9% of Llewellyn publications. That neopagans would be "keeping the flame of traditional Finnish beliefs alive" (my paraphrase) is almost as ridiculous as saying that Wicca represents true ancient European religions. Wicca, and neopaganism in general, are by no means continuations of ancient Europeans belief systems; rather, they, at best, draw on those beliefs in constructing their own belief systems, or, at worst, twist the tenets of those ancient belief systems to fit their own ideological (usually left-wing universalist) ends (e.g., all the ancient gods are "aspects" of a single Supreme Being/Goddess-God, etc.). Revise this article so that it reads more like a scholarly work, and less like a "plug" for neopaganism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.99.77.122 (talk) 07:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I see no reason why an encyclopedia entry should present modern speculation and outrageous claims as fact, as if all Finns somehow observed ancient rites. Neo-Paganism is Neo-Paganism, Finnish mythology as it existed in the olden times is not the same thing. Snowgrouse 17:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Snowgrouse: Great job on the edit.  Actually, I'm the one who wrote the "Higher Standard" comment.  Sorry if I came off a bit harsh.  No offense meant.  I actually find Finnish mythology fascinating. Narsil27 — Preceding undated comment added 06:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * No prob. I'm not keen on pseudohistory or the various groups of Finnish Neo-Pagans who keep spreading their own stuff on the Internet as representative of proper history or current interpretations/revivals of the mythology or (Neo-)Paganism in general. If pseudohistory comes from the realm of religion and exists primarily to support faiths, that's the realm it should stay in. Snowgrouse 06:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Milky way
The Milky Way is still today referred to as Linnunrata in Finland.

I wouldn't say refeffed. As far as i know Linnunrata is the only finnish name for milky way and therefore its official name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.223.170.60 (talk) 22:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Original research
This article makes a lot of claims while citing NO sources whatsoever. – ∅  (  ∅  ), 21:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This Artical is very much true, my Last name though in Suomi means Dweller of the Land and also can mean a strong Mascilne Bear! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.176.16.61 (talk) 02:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

More mixed than the others?
The first sentence in the article: Finnish mythology consisted of a belief in various indigenous nature spirits and gods, mixed with the more shamanic influences of the Sami people in the north and the Baltic and Viking influences from the south and the west.

This is like a plague. The article of Finnish history says at the very beginning that Finnish history is much influenced by other peoples and countries, and now this article says at its beginning that Finnish mythology is especially a mix (and apparently that other mythologies are less mixed). Like finns would be passive and not creative just like germanist racists have believed. Only few decades ago it was believed that finns are also racially mixed more than other Europeans, until it was proven false by DNA-tests.

No other mythology article says at its beginning that this certain mythology is mixed. This gives the false image that Finnish mythology is more mixed than ohter mythologies. In fact all the mythologies are mixed with neighbouring ones and Finnish is not more mixed than the others. Both Thor and Ukko are from Baltic Perkons, and Baltic Perkons and is again loan from other peoples, and so on. Actually if you look to Scandinavian or Baltic mythologies you see a lot less "own" stuff than in Finnish mythology. Finnish mythology is not just a mix from Lappish, Scandinavian and Baltic mythologies but it has a lots of its own, that is originated from the linquistic and cultural ancestors of the Finns and hold by them for millenias. Many of the most important myths, for example the myth of world tree and the myth of creation of world from egg are not loans from lapps, balts, vikings or any other now existing groups but they are part of own original beliefs of ancestors of finns. Many mythologies all over the word shares similar beliefs, but not because of mixing, but because originally all the cultures are from the same source, just like all the people are from the same source.

Finnish mythology is a part of Finnic mythologies which have lots of their own features. Finnic aspect is a lot more important in Finnish mythology than Germanic, Baltic or Slavic aspects Tuohirulla puhu 00:06, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm taking this on
Having read this & related articles, I couldn't agree more with the comments above from people like Snowgrouse, Narsil, Tuohirulla, etc. about the inadequacies of this article (& many of the related articles), the need for references, the need to keep a clear separation between authentic ancient mythology & traditions & the revival of some traditions in Neopaganism. As it happens, I've been collecting some pretty good reference materials on Finnish & Finno-Ugrian myth & folklore, etc. for several years. I don't speak/read Finnish (I hope to someday), but there's been a slowly growing corpus of reliable stuff in English from some of the real experts in the field. So I've begun going through it methodically, taking notes, & will be making some serious edits soon.

I already redid the stuff on the (nonhistorical) St. Urho a few days ago, & have been making random minor edits on related pages already. I was shocked to discover that somewhere in the history of the page on Ilmatar (the Lönnrot-invented mother of Väinämöinen), someone had decided that she was also the mother of Ilmarinen & Lemminkäinen!!! Yikes!

Wish me luck.

Yksin 21:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I look forward to your edits! Could I bother you to cross-edit Finnish paganism and Finnish neopaganism as well? - WeniWidiWiki 22:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I plan to do a lot of work on Finnish paganism too -- I've kinda got a working idea (as I wrote on that topic's talk page) of how to divide up the subject matter between the two pages. About Finnish neopaganism I know far far less, since as far as I know it's mainly in Finland (whereas I'm in Alaska), & probably also mostly in Finnish, which I don't know.  But I'll do what I can. Thanks for your welcome. -- Yksin 01:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Neopaganism
This article seems to be mostly about Finnish neopagan reconstructionist beliefs, not the real ancestral mythology. It should be replaced with a thoroughly sourced, more scholarly article. Preferably not written by the Finns themselves unless said Finns have academic credentials. By all means merge the current article to Finnish neopaganism or wherever you like but this seriously needs to be rewritten from beginning to end. In its current state, it's an embarrassing, steaming pile of neopagan OR. KING SHALMANESER II 17:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I couldn't agree with you more that this is a really bad article. I've been working on research at home using the sources in the reference list that I added a few weeks back (see list), but I've been sidetracked by a couple of other things. Still working on it, however, & hope to have made some significant improvements to this article soon. --Yksin 19:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

DIANA SAYS: that this page gave me plenty of information thank you for anyone who wrote this!! im from finland and by the way sonata artical is from finland too and so it is really cool "ohi now!!" im the kontio!! bye! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.248.104.173 (talk) 15:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

History of folklore studies in Finland
More or less scientific folklore studies have a long history in Finland, and I think it should be mentioned here. Aside from the obvious (Lönnrot et al.), the historical-geographic method, also called "the Finnish method" was, even internationally, for a long time during the early 20th century the method of scientific folklore research, pioneered by people like Julius and Kaarle Krohn. The main article on Folklore doesn't mention this either, but it should at the least be documented here.

-R2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.184.161.226 (talk) 10:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

"feelia sour"
"feelia sour" is described sour whole milk. I think that's a mistake and "viili" (pronounced like "feeli") is confused with piimä. Piimä is sour whole milk, like thick milk, and is drank like milk. Viili is a sour milk curd, much like yoghurt or keffir but thicker and more slimy, and eaten like yoghurt.

Viili: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viili

Piimä: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_milk_products http://books.google.fi/books?id=Or1KCcVF_DUC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=piim%C3%A4&source=bl&ots=f3o6HhLBVZ&sig=bZ34-BvqsBHljaIZRYz0aOqHPOk&hl=fi&ei=YhIVTJ-YL8WNOI3f9KgM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=piim%C3%A4&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.108.9.90 (talk) 17:20, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

St. Urho
Why not just create a separate St. Urho's Day article and put that section there, and add a link to that article in the see also section? Until we come to an agreement on whether it should be included here or in its own article, please leave that section in this article.  vıd ıoman  02:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * St. Urho has nothing to do with the Finnish mythology.--130.234.68.220 (talk) 11:16, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * There probably should be a separate page for this, as it is not a real Finnish mythology. St. Urho is as Finnish as Chop suey is Chinese. It is an American legend invented by an American citizen. --109.240.111.26 (talk) 18:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with this article and is one step removed from being something made up by school children. I moved it here till somebody can find a place for it.

Nonhistorical traditions Saint Urho The legend of St. Urho was the invention of a Finnish-American named Richard Mattson, who worked at Ketola's Department Store in Virginia, Minnesota in spring of 1956. Mattson later recounted that he invented St. Urho when he was questioned by coworker Gene McCavic about the Finns' lack of a saint like the Irish St. Patrick, whose feat of casting the snakes out of Ireland is remembered on St. Patrick's Day. In fact, the patron saint of Finland is Henry (Bishop of Finland).

According to the original "Ode to St. Urho" written by Gene McCavic and Richard Mattson, St. Urho was supposed to have cast "tose 'Rogs" (those frogs) out of Finland by the power of his loud voice, which he obtained by drinking "feelia sour" (sour whole milk) and eating "kala mojakka" (fish soup).

The original "Ode to St. Urho" identified St. Urho's Day as taking place on May 24. Later the date was changed to March 16, the day before St. Patrick's Day. St. Urho's feast is supposed to be celebrated by wearing the colors Royal Purple and Nile Green. Other details of the invented legend also changed, apparently under the influence of Dr. Sulo Havumäki, a psychology professor at Bemidji State College in Bemidji, Minnesota. The legend now states that St. Urho drove away grasshoppers (rather than frogs) from Finland using the incantation "Heinäsirkka, heinäsirkka, mene täältä hiiteen!" ("Grasshopper, grasshopper, go from hence to Hell!"), thus saving the Finnish grape crops. Another version of the modern celebration of St. Urho's Day is that it was created by Kenneth Brist of Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Brist, a high school teacher, was teaching in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the early to mid-1950s in an area largely populated by people of Finnish heritage. He and his friends concocted March 16 as St. Urho's Day so that they had two days to celebrate, the next day being St. Patrick's Day.

The designation of St. Urho as patron saint of the Finnish is particularly humorous because 82.5% of the Finnish population is affiliated with the Lutheran Church, which does not recognize Feasts of Saints. Brist promoted the "annual cancellation" of the St. Urho's Day Parade in Chippewa Falls with advertisements in the Chippewa Herald Telegram and by teaching his high school students about the legend of St. Urho. The "Ode to St. Urho" has been modified to reflect these changes in the feast day and legend. The Ode is written in a self-parodying form of English as spoken by Finnish immigrants. There is also a "Ballad of St. Urho" written by Sally Karttunen.

The selection of the name Urho as the saint's name was probably influenced by the accession of Urho Kekkonen to the presidency of Finland in 1956. Urho in the Finnish language also has the meaning of hero or simply brave.

There are St. Urho fan clubs in Canada and Finland as well as the U.S., and the festival is celebrated on March 16 in many American and Canadian communities with Finnish roots. The original statue of St. Urho is located in Menahga, Minnesota. Another interesting chainsaw-carved St. Urho statue is located in Finland, Minnesota. There is a beer restaurant called St. Urho's Pub in central Helsinki, Finland. A 2001 book, The Legend of St. Urho by Joanne Asala, presents much of the folklore surrounding St. Urho and includes an essay by Richard Mattson on the "birth" of St. Urho.

On March 16, 1999 in Kaleva, Michigan a large Metal Sculpture of a Grasshopper was Dedicated in honor of St. Urho's day. Kaleva is a community settle by Finnish Immigrants in 1900. In fact Kaleva is named after the Kalevala, the Epic Finnish story about the Creation of the Earth.

Many places with mixed populations of Finnish and Irish have an annual St. Urho's day event on the night before St. Patrick's Day. Butte, Montana holds such a celebration each March 16. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.0.139.105 (talk) 21:41, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Kenneth Brist
The following peice is removed, as I failed to verify it from reliable sources (google: ). Lolo Sambinho (talk) 19:35, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Another version of the origin of the myth of St. Urho's Day is that it was created by Kenneth Brist of Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin. Brist, a high school teacher, was teaching in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the early to mid 1950's in an area populated largely by people of Finnish heritage.  He and his friends contocted March 16 as St. Urho's Day so that they had two days to celebrate, the next day being St. Patrick's Day. The designation of St Urho as patron saint of the Finnish is particularly humorous because 82.5% of the Finnish population is affiliated with the Lutheran Church, which does not recognize the Feasts of Saints. Brist promoted the "annual cancellation" of the St Urho's Day Parade in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin with advertisements in the Chippewa Herald Telegram and by teaching his high school students about the legend of St Urho

The article history shows this section was added by on 16 March 2009; I guess, as part of the St. Urho Day celebration :-) Hyvää yötä, Lolo Sambinho (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

What about satu?
Would "satu" be considered one of the old gods? I ask because it is also a female name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.160.133 (talk) 20:03, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Satu means fairy tale in Finnish and yes, it's also a female name. I haven't heard anything about that word referring to any god. Niera (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:26, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Bird migration
In the paragraph "The structure and origins of the world" we see the statement: "Modern science has confirmed migratory birds do indeed follow the course of the Milky Way while migrating to warmer Southern lands and back." Would not some trustworthy documentation be needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.16.110.104 (talk) 08:56, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Euphemisms
This is only a minor point in the overall scheme of things, but: in the 3rd para, I think the author has got the euphemism relationships back-to-front. The text states that the 'real' Finnish word for bear is karhu, and that otso is one of the euphemisms used to avoid pronouncing the animal's 'real' name. I believe (and eg. the Finnish Wikipedia article on euphemisms concurs) this is the other way around, ie. that otso is the original name and karhu (which may be a reference to the rough, or karhea in Finnish, fur of the bear) is the euphemism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by R aaltonen (talk • contribs) 09:30, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

 * In spanish language, a bear is "ozo". 84.125.97.253 (talk) 14:03, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

An even older word for bear might be oksi, that declined like yksi or kaksi - oksi, ohta, ohden~ohen, ohtena, ohdeksi~oheksi etc It is still visible in some place names. But yes, karhu definitely is not the oldest possible name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.101.2.146 (talk) 16:30, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Finnish mythology


text:
John Leveson-Gower, 1st Earl Gower

John Leveson-Gower, 1st Earl Gower, PC (10 August 1694 – 25 December 1754) was an English Tory politician and peer who twice served as Lord Privy Seal from 1742 to 1743 and 1744 to 1754. Leveson-Gower also served in the Parliament of Great Britain, where he sat in the House of Lords as a leading member of the Tories, prior to switching his political affiliation and serving in various Whig-led government ministries until his death in 1754.

Born in London into the prominent Leveson-Gower family, Leveson-Gower was educated at Westminster School and the University of Oxford. After his father died in 1709, he assumed his peerage as Baron Gower and before taking his seat in the House of Lords. Leveson-Gower proceeded to acquire a political power base consisting of four parliamentary boroughs under his de facto control: Newcastle-under-Lyme, Stafford, Lichfield, and Cheadle.

In 1742, Leveson-Gower started serving in the Carteret ministry as Lord Privy Seal. Though he resigned the next year, in 1744 Leveson-Gower again served in the same position as part of the Whig-led Broad Bottom ministry. He soon became a devoted supporter of Henry Pelham and his brother the Duke of Newcastle. During the Jacobite rising of 1745, he remained loyal to the Hanoverians, which led George II to grant him the title of Earl Gower.

During the 1747 British general election, seven parliamentary constituencies which were under Leveson-Gower's control were contested by rival Tory candidates. Despite spending large sums of money from his vast financial estate, he only managed to retain two constituencies, Stafford and Lichfield. Leveson-Gower subsequently twice rejected calls to resign in 1751 and 1754, before dying in office on 25 December 1754 at his London townhouse.

Early life
John Leveson-Gower was born on 10 August 1694 in London, England into the aristocratic Leveson-Gower family. His father was John Leveson-Gower, a politician who sat in the House of Commons until he was elevated to the English peerage in 1703 as the Baron Gower; he also served as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. Leveson-Gower's mother was Lady Catherine Manners, the eldest daughter of the John Manners, 1st Duke of Rutland.

Leveson-Gower was educated at Westminster School before graduating from Christ Church, Oxford after entering the college in 1710. During his youth, though he was a Jacobite sympathiser, Leveson-Gower remained uninvolved in politics, being more interested in fox hunting and horse racing. However, beginning in 1720 he turned his attention to political affairs, making efforts to bring parliamentary seats in Staffordshire under his control.

By the late 1720s, Leveson-Gower had managed to secure a base of parliamentary support, which consisted of four constituencies: Newcastle-under-Lyme, Stafford, Lichfield and Cheadle (he served as the town mayor of Cheadle in 1721). After Leveson-Gower's father died in 1709, Leveson-Gower inherited his peerage and soon took his seat in the British House of Lords, eventually emerging as a leading figure in the Tory faction.

Political career
In 1740, Leveson-Gower was appointed as a Lord Justice; after the Tory-led Walpole ministry collapsed in 1742, he was appointed to the position of Lord Privy Seal, succeeding John Hervey, 2nd Baron Hervey and being the lone Tory politician to be promoted to such high office after the collapse. He was also appointed to the Privy Council of Great Britain on 12 May 1742 by the Carteret ministry, which was a Whig-dominated administration.

Leveson-Gower's alliance with a rival political party, described by historians as "a move of considerable party political importance", soon collapsed as he resigned from his position on December 1743. However, he was reappointed as Lord Privy Seal in 1744 as part of the Broad Bottom ministry, a coalition government led by Henry Pelham and his brother Thomas Pelham-Holles, 1st Duke of Newcastle, which stayed in power for a decade.

When the Jacobite rising of 1745 broke out, Leveson-Gower personally assured George II of Great Britain of his loyalty, raising one of the fifteen new British military regiments formed to oppose the Jacobite invasion of England; in recognition of these actions, he was granted the titles of Viscount Trentham and Earl Gower by George II on 8 July 1746. However, Leveson-Gower's regiment proved unwilling to face any possibility of fighting, refusing to move beyond the nearest tavern when his son-in-law Sir Richard Wrottesley, 7th Baronet raised a Yeomanry unit and joined them.

In 1748, he was again appointed as a Lord Justice, being appointed again in 1750 and 1752. Leveson-Gower's continuing support of a Whig-led ministry led to increasing backlash amongst his fellow Tories and English Jacobites, who perceived John Russell, 4th Duke of Bedford as having "corrupted" him; in a letter to the 4th Duke of Bedford, Leveson-Gower complained that he was being "persecuted by the gout and Jacobitism". In 1747, a protest by a group of English Jacobites at the Lichfield horse races forced Leveson-Gower to refrain from leaving his house for a time.

Despite mounting levels of public and private criticism, he refused to resign from his position as Lord Privy Seal, an action which led English lexicographer and prominent Tory Dr.Samuel Johnson to include Leveson-Gower in his seminal 1755 work A Dictionary of the English Language under the definition of renegado, though this was later removed by Johnson's printer. By the early 1750s, Leveson-Gower had solidified his political loyalty to the Pelham brothers, joining a group of British parliamentarians (dominated by members of the Whig party) known as the "Pelhamites".

Later life and death

During the 1747 British general election, Leveson-Gower's parliamentary support base, which included seven constituencies in Staffordshire and Westminster, came under heavy threat by rival political candidates. Though he had succeeded to the position of Lord Lieutenant of Staffordshire in 1742, which gave him a large advantage in determining the outcome of parliamentary elections, all seven constituencies were contested by Tory politicians with extensive backing.

Despite suffering from gout, Leveson-Gower chose to defend his support base, focusing on the constituencies of Stafford and Lichfield; this was despite the fact that, as George Anson noted in a letter to the 4th Duke of Bedford, "everything has been done that could be thought of against Lord Gower's interest". Leveson-Gower complained that he was being opposed in the elections "by... men that I have lived in the strictest friendship with the best part of my life".

When the results of the elections were announced, Leveson-Gower discovered that, despite his extensive campaigning efforts, he had lost five out of the seven constituencies of his support base; the two he had retained, Stafford and Lichfield, were due in Henry Pelham's opinion "almost entirely to the Whigs". According to Wisker, the "considerable" cost of campaigning during the general election sapped a significant portion of Leveson-Gower's financial estate.

In June 1751, Leveson-Gower refused to join his third son Granville (by now a member of parliament) and the 4th Duke of Bedford in resigning from their positions as a show of support to John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, who had been dismissed from his position as First Lord of the Admiralty by the 1st Duke of Newcastle. When Henry Pelham died in March 1754, leading to the Broad Bottom ministry's collapse, he again refused to resign from his position.

On 25 December 1754, he died at his London townhouse at 6 Upper Brook Street. After his death, Leveson-Gower's titles were inherited by Granville, while his position as Lord Privy Seal was succeeded by Charles Spencer, 3rd Duke of Marlborough. His death was recorded in a letter written by English writer, bluestocking and artist Mary Delany on December 28, who noted, as per mourning customs, that women who mourned Leveson-Gower's passing wore only grey or white clothing for a week.

Personal life, family and legacy
After his father's death, Leveson-Gower inherited Trentham Estate from him. In 1730, he erected Trentham Hall, an English country house, on the property, basing it on the design of Buckingham House. When Granville inherited the estate at Trentham from Leveson-Gower, which included the country house, he substantially altered it based on designs supplied by architect Henry Holland from 1775 to 1778. It was further altered from 1833 to 1842 by George Sutherland-Leveson-Gower, 2nd Duke of Sutherland, who employed Sir Charles Barry to carry out the renovations.

Leveson-Gower's political career was supported by his vast personal estate, which partially consisted of investments in Britain's rapidly growing industrial production sector and ownership of shares in eight other estates, including those of fellow British peers Willem van Keppel, 2nd Earl of Albemarle and William Pulteney, 1st Earl of Bath. However, the sizeable costs of electoral campaigning combined with family expenses took a heavy toll on his estate, and by Leveson-Gower's death in 1754, he owed outstanding debts to the tune of £37,861 along with roughly £36,000 in legacies.

Over the course of his life, Leveson-Gower married thrice. On 13 March 1712, he married Lady Evelyn Pierrepont, the third daughter of Evelyn Pierrepont, 1st Duke of Kingston-upon-Hull. They had eleven children, including Granville and Gertrude, before she died on 26 June 1727. After her death, Leveson-Gower remarried to Penelope Stonhouse on 31 October 1733, though she soon died on 19 August 1734. Leveson-Gower's third and last wife was Lady Mary Tufton, whom he married on 16 May 1736. She bore two of his sons, surviving his death and dying on 9 February 1785.

Granville, who chose to follow his father into a career in politics, also served as Lord Privy Seal, succeeding to the position in 1755 after the 3rd Duke of Marlborough and holding it until 1757. He would go on to be granted the title of Marquess of Stafford in 1786 by King George III and serve as a leading Tory politician. Leveson-Gower's sixth son John served in the Royal Navy and participated in several naval battles with the French Navy during the American Revolutionary War before entering Parliament and sitting in the House of Commons until his death in 1792.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: John Leveson-Gower, 1st Earl Gower


text:
Talk:Baltic Finnic paganism

Awfull spelling and grammar
I'm writing an essay about pre-christian and pre-swedish Finland. I was gonna chek out some facts here but I ended up correcting spelling errors and grammar. This article needs to be reworked and some stuff needs sources.--DerMeister 14:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for correcting spelling and grammar! There are lots of sources but they are presented in Finnish version only because they are in Finnish. I can add them here if you accept Finnish sources. Tuohirulla puhu 17:40, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge
A lot of the information in Finnish mythology is the same as here. A good deal of it should be moved there (if it's not present already), but I think that certain parts of this article should remain (shamanism, modern revival). --Tydaj 18:32, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * It would make sense to keep the modern revival here. --Johan Magnus 06:33, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * %C1satr%FA and Norse mythology are good parallels --Tydaj 17:12, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mythology and paganism
Is it fair to say that Finnish mythology is a subset of Finnish paganism? —Ashley Y 02:23, 2005 Apr 27 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I faced the same problem while writing the article on this subject at Finnish wikipedia. In ancient finnish religion (and many other paganist and animist religions) mythology is a part of religion, but then again, religion is a part of mythology. Pagans had similar relation with ancient heroes, ancestors, spirits of nature and other spiritual creatures, even stones and animals, than they had with gods. While talking to ancient hero they did not think "this is mythology" and while talking to a god they did not think "this is religious activity". Propably the question is wrong. Pagans did not have "religion" that is separate from mythology and other fields of mental life. Tuohirulla 15:48, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I've been mulling this over for the past few days while getting set to do some major work both here & on the Finnish mythology page (see the Talk page there for a rundown on my intentions), & basically have come down to a sort of division in my mind: "mythology" as being the cosmogony (origins), cosmology (structure of the cosmos), & mythic stories, etc., & putting into "paganism" more of the day-to-day practices that came out of the structure of belief. That's my working theory anyway. -- Yksin 21:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Capital letters?
Should there been used capital letters in words like "Pagan/pagan" and "Paganism/paganism"? I've understand that all religions have to been written in capitals, like "Buddhism", "Christianity" or "Christian". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.136.249 (talk) 10:24, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't think so. There is no one religion that has the recognized name of "paganism" -- rather, paganism covers a whole host of different religions that have some characteristics in common, but are by no means unified by common scriptures or sourcebooks or founders. -- Yksin 21:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Asatru
Over at Ásatrú the following section has been added. Could someone please source it or give a definitive answer on whether this belongs there?WeniWidiWiki 23:18, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Relationship to Finnish Paganism

 * Some Finnish neopagans consider Asatru a part of their faith, while others think it is foreign. Those who make a distinction between Asatru and Finnish neopaganism think Asatru is based too much on beliefs of neighbouring countries and not on their own local traditions. Some even see Asatru as a kind of cultural imperialism. Still the ancient faiths of Finland and its Scandinavian neighbours have many similarities, for example a thunder god who strikes lightning with his hammer, and rides in the clouds with his chariot making thunderstorms. (compare Thor and Ukko). Finnish folklore told about a great wizard Väinämöinen, the first and oldest human being, and maybe originally a god, who is - according to some - close to Odin.

"Also bears name was almost forbidden to say ..." - gramatically incorrect. Try "Also, it was almost forbidden to say the word 'bear', ..."

move
this should probably be at Finnic paganism. The Finnish people are the modern people, speakers of the modern Finnish language. I do not think that the prehistorical (pre-Christian, pre-15th century) populations should be called "Finns" but more generically "Finnic". --dab (𒁳) 07:43, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Deities as kings
In relation to this: "deities [...] have been referred to as "kings" [citation needed]." I believe the word that has been used is valtias (ruler/sovereign) and not kuningas (king). But I don't really have any real knowledge on the matter. --Enmoku (talk) 14:27, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

No Elk in Finland
This page repeatedly refers to 'elk' as a sacred animal. Elk are native to North America and eastern Asia, rather far from Finland. The correct animal would be the reindeer, an entirely different species. 142.113.127.45 (talk) 04:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Nope, it's the same moose, which, being from the Artic Circle, has crossed the Bering Strait. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Elk is the English name given in Europe to what Americans generally refer to as moose (Alces alces). As the Wikipedia article on elk states, "The word 'elk' originally referred to the European variety of the moose" — but was later applied to the species Cervus canadensis (also known by its Shawnee & Cree name wapiti) for historical reasons described in that article. In Finnish, the name for Alces elces (what North Americans call moose) is hirvi, whereas what North Americans call elk (Cervus canadensis) is called amerikanhirvi.

 * And yes, reindeer (Rangifer tarandus; in Finnish, poro) — an entirely different species from either elk or moose.

 * To avoid confusion for North Americans, perhaps best to add a note about the difference in usage between Europe & the North America. — Yksin (talk) 19:45, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

 * I have now added the following footnote to the article:

 * The animal called "elk" here (in Finnish, hirvi) is what North Americans call "moose" (Alces alces). European settlers in North America later applied the word "elk" to the species Cervus canadensis (also known by its Shawnee & Cree name wapiti) — a separate species. — Yksin (talk) 20:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Moving the page to Finnic Paganism
Changing the name of the article to 'Finnic paganism' is a good idea, for these pagan ideas weren't limited to Finns, but also other Finnic peoples like Karelians, Livonians, Veps and others. IkuTurisas (talk) 20:32, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I strongly disagree with renaming of this article from Finnish paganism to Finnic paganism.

 * In the request to redirect Finnish paganism to Finnic paganism IkuTurisas wrote, "Perform requested move, see talk page: due to multiple suggestions in the the talk page for this change, which is a logical and historically accurate change." But I find only one suggestion to that effect (from  dab on 23 Aug 2010 — 14 years ago!) prior to the change being made; nor is there any reference to reliable sources to indicate just how "historically accurate" this change is.

 * IkuTurisas asserted in an edit that widely replaced the word "Finnish" with "Finnic" that "this faith was home to all Finnic people not just the finns" (emphasis added) — as if to assume pre-Christian beliefs of the various Finnic peoples was one unified "faith," shared more-or-less identically across languages & distances. This claim seems to be the underlying logic for why the article was requested to be renamed. But again, without any reliable sources referred to.

 * Meantime, even just a quick spot check on other Finnic peoples other than the Finns finds that there are disparities in beliefs. For example, the article on Sámi shamanism has as extensive List of deities — with citations to reliable sources — that differs considerably from the deities described in the present article as supposedly being "pan-Finnic deities" that are "venerated by all the Baltic-Finnic peoples and most other Finnic people." Even if some deities have similar features between different peoples, that doesn't equate to the belief systems being the same faith or religion.

 * That's only one issue with this article. Most of the sources cited are Finnish sources. There are few if any sources that specifically discuss the pre-Christian beliefs of Estonians, Mordvins, Mari, Udmurts, Komis, or Sámi, but simply seems to take the Finnish sources as authoritative depiction of religion for all those peoples. It's true that some of those sources discuss more than only Finnish beliefs, but at least of those with which I'm familiar, they don't claim that Finnish beliefs, deities, etc. were universal among the Finnic peoples. Juha Pentikäinen, for example, in Kalevalan mytologia (I have the English expanded edition of Kalevala Mythology translated by Ritva Poom published in 2009) discusses aspects of Sámi shamanism in understanding the Kalevala, but he's always clear that similarities been Sámi and Finnish or Karelian belief do not make them the "same."

 * I'm not actually arguing against having an article called "Finnic paganism" that can talk about similarities between the belief systems of Finnic peoples. But this is not that article. This is an imperfect, strongly needing improvement article on Finnish paganism, that erases the beliefs of the other peoples by claiming to stand for all of them. Any article on Finnic paganism needs not only to describe similarities, but also differentiate where there are differences. If the Sámi were not worshiping the Finnish god Ukko, we should not be saying so.

 * Discussion? — Yksin (talk) 22:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Another discrepancy between Finnish & another Finnic culture's beliefs — in the article on Komi peoples, under Folklore and religion, we find a brief discussion of the creator gods En (Komi: Ен) and Omöl' (Komi: Омöль ) – not to be found in Finnish mythology. The article cites to an Encylopedia.com article Komi religion which spells out some of the differences between Finnish & Komi belief even further. Both are Finnic — but they are far from the "same faith." — Yksin (talk) 23:30, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * i agree with you that the religion is not extremely relevant to the Saami or the Volga-Finns, however i do not believe it should be renamed back to "Finnish paganism", the religion shared between the Estonians, Finns, Karelians, Ingrians, Veps and Bjarmians were practically all in the same. When i originally moved the article i was using the Common name for Baltic-Finns, aka just Finnic or Fennic, however i shouldve been more specfic. I suggest moving the article to "Baltic-Finnic paganism" as that is a more accurate name. The difference between Estonian and Finnish paganism is miniscule at best, only really being for example the minor spelling differences such as Ukko and Uku. IkuTurisas (talk) 23:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Yksin IkuTurisas (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * simply moving this back to "Finnish paganism" is pointless, there is no point in creating extra need for articles on "different" "religions". This is why i still suggest moving it to Baltic-Finnic paganism, as that religion shared by the Baltic-Finns is the same religion. You can find no difference in practically  all  deities and gods shared by the Baltic-Finns, the shared gods between the Finns, Tavastians, Karelians, Estonians and other groups is enough of a reason to classify them as the same religion. As said before i originally named the article after the common name for the Baltic Finnic peoples, which is just Finnic peoples, therefore Finnic paganism. I see the moving to Finnish paganism as pointless, there is no logic behind that other than that i did a mistake with the naming, therefore it should not be done at all. IkuTurisas (talk) 13:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The current title is not a problem, only the introduction is problematic. If those other Finno-Ugric peoples are removed from the intro, and Finnic defined as Finns, Karelians, Estonians etc. then the article begins to have a coherent topic even without a move. Anna-Leena Siikala's book should offer discussion about the differences and similarities between the traditions of different peoples, and could be utilized more.
 * The current introduction would be more suited for an article with a title Finno-Ugric mythology. We should
 * I actualld have an article about it, even if the result is mostly negative: there not that many commonalities, except between peoples that live in each other's proximi "Proto-Uralic religion" doesn't quite catch all that.ty. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 14:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * i do think however the current title is a bit problematic as it is possibly misleading, it is more straight forward to rename it to Baltic-Finnic paganism and edit that one bit in the beginning. IkuTurisas (talk) 18:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Either title seems fine. Perhaps without hyphen, to be consistent with Baltic Finnic peoples. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 19:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * alright, i will perform the move IkuTurisas (talk) 19:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good compromise that adequately addresses my problems. I'm in support. Thanks for your consideration. — Yksin (talk) 22:33, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baltic Finnic paganism


text:
Talk:Rammohun roy

See Ram Mohan Roy - merge required. Charles Matthews 18:33, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree this page should be merged with Rammohan Roy. They refer to the exact same person, the spelling of the name alone is different. Eliza Kent. See Raja Rammohun Ray: The Father of Modern India (Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1975).

The contents should be merged with Ram Mohan Roy and this page should become a redirect page. Supten 07:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Agree - why is it taking so long? - Runcorn 20:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also agree - I only created this because I failed to find the other page. sorry all! Danohuiginn 10:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rammohun roy


text:
Talk:Rustam Kasimdzhanov

Why don't you use the official Usbek name of him? His name is Rustam Qosimjonov (see on http://www.uza.uz/uzb/news/?id1=3379 the official Site of national news agency of Uzbekistan). Best regards, Hanno Meissner

 * Because we have a policy on the English Wikipedia to use the most common form of a person's name used in English-language contexts (see Naming conventions (common names) and Naming conventions (use English)). Whether the policy is right or not is arguable, but there it is. That said, there should of course be a redirect from Rustam Qosimjonov--I'll make it now. --Camembert

there is a problem with the picture. Dorit 15:47, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

 * It seems to have been deleted because it lacked information on its source. I'll remove the dead link from the article. --Camembert 16:23, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you, the problem is, that lately I saw it in few articles. Don't you check before deletion? Dorit 09:22, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I personally haven't deleted any images, but you're quite right of course that when people do delete them, they should also remove them from the articles they were in. Unfortunately, what people should do and what they do do are not always equivalent... --Camembert 11:12, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * True. Personally when I delete at the he.wiki I pay attention to all the relevant links. Anyway, Thank you. Dorit 15:54, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The article must be renamed to Rustam Qosimjonov. He is Uzbek, not bloody Russian. Uzbeks are like Turks are using latin script, so why we write turkish and finnish names as they appear in native language, but Rustam's surname is left as Kasimdzhanov (thanks god, not Kasymdzhanoff :)). Just rename the name, please.--Abdullais4u 07:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Ht is an ethnic Tatar, not an Uzbek. There are alost a million of Volga Tatars living in Uzbekistan66.65.129.159 (talk) 17:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Any sources? I'm reverting your edit, find reliable sources and make your claim. Abdullais4u (talk) 13:02, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

He is full uzbek. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.123.230.165 (talk) 22:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Rustam Kasimdzhanov


text:
User talk:Cecropia/Archive 13

Blocking war
I invite you to comment on my actions (see -- Uncle Ed (talk) 19:15, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

GWB military service controversy
Hi Cecropia,

I'm the guy who made the last "contribution" to the article. During the pre-election time, I heard of some reasoning that Bush may fall in to the deserter category because of the 30 day period... and I thought the article missed this point. Could you explain to me how the things really are - why Resident Bush is an absentee without official leave and not a deserter... From the moral grounds it is not understandable that Bush hasn't been tried or at least sent to Vietnam for not fulfilling his National Guard duties. Why?

Bush could have told the National Guard officials that he wanted to fulfill his duty in a honest manner instead of just not appearing at the physicals or the drills; and if I'd have been a military attorney in the Vietnam war time, I couldn't have recognized a bit of good will. Are the laws there to be observed, or are they there to make a mockery of them? It's sad that today National Guard members have to die in Iraq while Bush tricked himself out of service.

Regards, David/de:Benutzer:Keimzelle

Looxix
Oooops, my husband came back home to early, and I was interrupted in my attempts to clean it all. Did not have time to put a message. No worry Cecropia, Looxix is no admin. I removed adminship from meta at the same time I was making it up (Looxix is belgian and with access to db, no worry, but he actually quit us recently). I was trying to figure out the oddity made by Ed Poor (a security hole which was quickly fixed during the following night). Ed, though not developer anymore, was able, as a bureaucrat, to give him sysop, bureaucrat AND developer power DIRECTLY on en and to desysop people directly on en. Which should just be impossible. So, I made attempts of giving myself developer rights (from meta, on en) and promote people to try to see how this could just happen.

Much apology for the confusion. I meant to put a comment on the admin talk page, and was stopped by husband coming back home, then just FORGOT and was out of town for 2 days. Do not worry anyway, Looxix is not sysop at all.

Thanks

Anthere

Vaoverland
Ah, power at last. Seriously, the pat on the back this represents means more to me. It felt nice to read the comments during the voting. I recently did a small piece on Abram S. Hewitt which should cross paths with your interests, if I recall them correctly. BTW, did you notice the green box on my talk page (to put new messages at bottom automatically). I have found this feature helps a lot, and I'll make one for you gratis if you care for one. Please let me know if you see something I should be doing as admin, as I intend to be fairly passive unless it is clear I should do otherwise. Thanks. Mark in Richmond. Vaoverland 20:06, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia at a crossroads
Just wanted to express my very strong agreement with your note. 172 could've done a better job following the rules, for sure. But the community must do a must better job proactively defending good work from POV-pushing by users, including some well-entrenched ones, who are more interested in slow-motion trench warfare than building an encyclopedia. Lacking that, dedicated users like 172, who have poured heart and soul into this project, will continue to be driven over the edge -- by violating policy or leaving the project altogether.

I nearly quit Wikipedia myself after winding up involved in protracted disputes with three separate problem users bent on inserting their POV and/or generally wrecking havoc on libertarian-related articles. Sure, all of them wound up being given long-term bans, but it sapped literally hundreds of hours of time on the part of myself and other editors that should've gone into improving articles.

If 172's talk page is any sign, there's more than a few of us who have these kinds of concerns. I don't know how much time I'd have to contribute to it at the moment, but I'd love to find a way to put our heads together to come up with solutions.

RadicalSubversiv E 03:34, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, no, I'm not willing in any way to let the social experiment aspects of Wikipedia overtake the goal of a high quality encyclopedia. I'm not very interested in anarchic social experiments, except as secondary to our mission here. Now, this doesn't mean that I am going to start cracking down on every little thing I don't approve of, of course. The community is of crucial importance. But the community -- the real community -- needs to feel confident that I'm saying that quality work is what we're all about, and we don't need to worry about being taken over by trolls. --Jimbo Wales 18:48, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think Jimbo might have mistaken your point, Cecropia, which I fully endorse. It's not the trolls that are the problem -- they're simply a minor irritation that can mostly be ignored (always the best method). The problem is that a majority POV can become entrenched, and the power bloc that supports it can harass and punish users that do not share it. This can make editors who are, let's say, volatile, become more extreme than they would otherwise be, because they don't feel they are listened to. Some feel that a cabal of powerful users prevent minority viewpoints from being expressed. Where users feel those viewpoints are essentially correct, this enrages them. They feel unheard.

If "consensus" doesn't mean that all are heard, what does it mean? If NPOV doesn't mean that all views are included, what does it mean? Too many take it to mean "neutral" in the sense of "orthodox", so that a belief is current that our pages should express commonly held, Western and generally liberal views. In disputes, users who don't share these views are often accused of being "POV pushers" while those who hold them are considered "neutral". The lack of understanding that your own biases are not neutral is very harmful!

It's tiresome to see so much childish bickering. "You broke the rules... you attacked me... you reverted three times in ten minutes..." You have to remind yourself that these are adults and the plan is that we all try to work together to make an encyclopaedia, by thrashing out our differences with mutual respect, not by wielding an ever larger bunch of policies -- many entirely unconnected with the business of making an encyclopaedia and many severely abused -- enforced by a quasi elite who are, more and more, seeking to expand their powers and enforce their views (peculiarly, as the community grows, and consensus becomes more difficult to attain with the diversity of voices in it, the elite becomes ever more convinced that its views are supported and correct -- perhaps they didn't notice that, what was it, 8% voted for Lir to be an arbitrator!).Dr Zen 01:14, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * "Some feel that a cabal of powerful users prevent minority viewpoints from being expressed". Amen to that! Please see how Rex071404 was harassed and hounded into virtual silence. And this, even though he did add some interesting ** AND VALID ** content to the Wiki. 216.153.214.94 06:11, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

NYC Subway timeline
I've been working on a confirmed timeline at User:SPUI/NYC Subway timeline, by looking up dates in the New York Times archive. Feel free to add anything else for me to find (with approximate dates); this includes BMT lines being converted from surface lines. --SPUI (talk) 18:51, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

And the reason I started making the list: New York City Subway timeline. --SPUI (talk) 03:21, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cecropia Lite
I'm taking a semi-hiatus, as desribed on my User Page. At a minimum, I will continue to monitor RfA for promotions and this talk page. Cheers to all! -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 21:21, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Laughed out loud
As someone who studied early modern religious history (and normally finds it hilarious), I thought you'd appreciate knowing that I laughed loudly and several times at your recent mailing list post. Of course, as I'm not Snowspinner, I suppose it's easier to laugh. I recognize your concern about witch-hunts without entirely sharing them -- Zen and Wheeler, I admit, fall into that delightful category of the difficult yet unsanctionable editor. They're tough as nails to work with, but not arbitable, in my estimation. Anyhow, you'll be missed on your semi-hiatus (though I thank you tremendously for keeping your RFA responsibilities -- what would we do without you?), and I figured you'd like knowing that I'm still chuckling. ...Distaff Gender....all those CAPS.....ah, the early moderns. Take care, Jwrosenzweig 01:44, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tony Sidaway RFA
Moved this discussion to Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship where everyone who may be interested to read and comment can do so. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 07:49, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

how-to guide
Thanks for this. I'm plodding through it slowly but surely right now. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:36, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Re: Congratulations
Thank you for promoting me. It's so strange to see the new links and such after spending so much time on Wikipedia. I've begun to read through the policies; it will be a while before I am ready to try using any of these new abilities. Thanks! — Knowledge Seeker দ 08:00, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Weight training unblock
While I respect your decision to unblock Blair P. Houghton, I fear that you have emboldened a problem user who has so far refused to work with others. I am concerned it will be more difficult to work harmoniously on this article in future, not less.

I know that you have looked over the edits in question, but I don't know if you have seen my attempts to discuss Blair's edits at Talk:Weight_training, and my attempts to reach a compromise. By simplifying the text, Blair removed important facts e.g. the progressive overload principle. In my initial revert, I kept the majority of his changes, but reverted only the removal of these facts, and one change that the other editors had already unanimously rejected.

I am more than happy to hash out his issues in talk. If you wish to help resolve the situation, then please do protect the page—at whatever version you choose—and I will again attempt to discuss these issues with Blair.

Yes, I numbered my edits. That was because I didn't want to fall foul of the 3RR, or be accused of doing so. Please note that the other editor who reverted Blair—Taxman—is an admin who could easily have blocked Blair himself, but chose not to do so. His behaviour has been beyond reproach.

Thank you for your time. GeorgeStepanek\talk  09:09, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * George, thanks for your note, and I apologize for the implication that your numbering may not have been in good faith but, you see, the problem I'm attacking is a trend in Wikipedia toward resolving article problems by sanctioning users. We have gone in a very short stretch from 3RR being a general sentiment to being a blockable offense; it is inherently flawed for reason I have stated. A block accomplishes little in a non-vandal user except to diminish his/her potential to be a valuable contributor.

 * True. I was wondering at that myself: just what is the purpose of a 24 hr block in a case like this? But on the other hand the 3RR is there, and there's a page that asks you to report any violations of it...

 * Forgive me, but I have never been in these kinds of conflicts before, so I don't really know what happens or what the options are. Weight training was a very dusty backwater until Sfahey and myself managed to make it a FA. GeorgeStepanek\talk  09:53, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Blair is a fairly new user. I have admonished him as to Wikietiquette and we will see how this all works out, and we have many means of straightening this out that have worked elsewhere before this becomes an RfC or ArbCom. In the past these methods have had some good results. As to protecting the article, things seem pretty calm now. If the need for protecting presents itself, you and/or other editors on Weight Training can contact me or, if I'm not available, another admin. If it does become necessarty, I may have some suggestions for going forward. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 09:30, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * We'll see what happens. Thank you for your response. GeorgeStepanek\talk  09:53, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Different article, same problem user. As you can see his Wikiquette has not improved. Thank you for your message. I left the response on my talk page, but I suppose I will repeat it here. Protection may work on low traffic articles such as the EPOC one, but for more popular articles it unfairly punishes the other users instead of the one causing the problem. In this case, please do protect the article, as Blair has said he will revert anything that does not agree with him. Then he will actually have to try to substantiate his position instead of just reverting to it. The rest of us are willing to compromise and accept new evidence. He does not appear to be. - Taxman 13:51, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

Colors for pre-Chrystie services
Do you happen to know what colors were used for the Q, QT and T services? These only existed pre-Chrystie. --SPUI (talk) 18:42, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. That's what I had come to realize, but it's nice to have confirmation (to be sure they weren't colored on rollsigns or something). I've added all the old colors to New York City Subway line, route and station nomenclature as well as a few other changes. --SPUI (talk) 21:14, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Question - the IRT started using the numbers publicly in 1948, but they used the Astoria Line until 1949 - was it ever publicly signed as 8? I'm assuming the Third Avenue Line was only assigned 8 in 1967, and the Dyre Avenue Line was never 8 publicly? --SPUI (talk) 21:22, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you!
"For example, if a service was designated 10, a short-line of the service might have a diagonal stroke through the number. This informed boarding riders that the car would not travel all the way to its usual destination."

Wow. I have been wondering for a long time why the E Line of the MBTA Green Line has a slash through the E (for instance ). Now I know. Wow. --SPUI (talk) 00:40, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Carl G. Fisher
This article is up for FA, not getting much support, although no negatives. Could you take a look and vote if you feel justified? Thanks, Mark In Richmond. Vaoverland 04:39, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

 * thanks. BTW, would you like a box like I have on my user page to lead your new ,messasges to the bottom. I know how do do one for you, its easy, and its sure helps the messages stay organized. Just look at mine at User Talk:Vaoverland and let me know. If not, no sweat. Mark in Richmond. Vaoverland 05:19, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

testing new box
It looks like it is working as intended. Please let me know if this meets with your approval. Mark Vaoverland 05:32, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thank you, Cecropia. It's a nice feeling to be promoted! I hope if you spot me doing anything I ought not to, or not doing something I ought to, you'll let me know. Best, SlimVirgin 01:01, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Second opinion, please
If you do not mind, would you please weigh in with an outside second opinion regarding the revert war taking place at Bellevue West High School? In all fairness, please be aware that there are several RfC and RfAs in my name. Your commentary would be much appreciated in this particular matter. --GRider\talk 20:02, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

New subway map
Image:NYC subway map.png --SPUI (talk) 03:07, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

One thing I realized I forgot is skip-stop info. I also forgot to mention the exceptions to the 1-5 coding (the services that start/end in the middle of the evening).

I had thought about adding line names (to the schematics at right); I may still do that.

I'm thinking about making the circles smaller in Lower Manhattan to reduce clutter.

NYC subway map 50% and NYC subway map 33% are smaller legible versions.

It's meant to be a map of current service, so I'm only including interdivision track connections that are used.

Thanks for the comments. --SPUI (talk) 06:34, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Didn't realize the BMT used numbers on the sides of trains
--SPUI (talk) 22:01, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This is strange - the KK used NASSAU ST even after Chrystie opened -. I guess technically it did use a bit of the Nassau Street line, but not the part under Nassau Street; 6TH AVE would make more sense. --SPUI (talk) 22:47, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Something that might interest you
crossposted, with apologies

A self-appointed clique calling itself the Office of Investigations has empowered itself to decide who is a "problem user" who needs to be "dealt with", primarily through arbitration. Do you support this move, or are you worried about vendettas and bullying? Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Office of Investigations. —Charles P. (Mirv) 22:49, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Image:NYC subway map.png is updated
The division schematics are now much clearer. I'm always open to comments of course. --SPUI (talk) 16:01, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I decided to go with mostly html-generated rollsigns, so the style will be uniform with ones we don't have nice images of. It would be nice to have a photo of even a new rollsign for illustration in the nomenclature article - you don't happen to be in NYC and have a camera? --SPUI (talk) 10:42, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Broadway (Brooklyn) Line service changes
If you have the inclination and knowledge, can you look over Template:Broadway Brooklyn changes? --SPUI (talk) 04:49, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
I guess in some ways it (Chambers/HT) makes sense, and in other ways it seems a bit strange. --SPUI (talk) 18:53, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Seems a bit strange that with the AA ending there, it didn't end at HT. Though I guess there may have been issues with the amount of trains ending there, and certainly there were no capacity problems on the Chambers Street part. --SPUI (talk) 21:40, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Protection of Weight training
I don't see that it's right to protect this article now. There is no ongoing edit war and no prospect of one cropping up--the article hasn't even been edited in over a week, and the same goes for the talk page. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:43, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * My concern is this: you've stopped everybody editing the article because you have been asked to do so by some people who haven't even touched the article or its talk page in the past eight days. If some other user comes along and wants to edit, he'll be unable to do so, and that seems wrong to me in the absence of any other activity at all on the article or its talk page, let alone any kind of edit war.

 * Since it's obvious that the proposed discussion of differences is not happening, I don't see how protecting the article will have any positive effect at all. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 17:09, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * That is my same objection with using page protection instead of blocking for revert warring. But I'm willing to try most anything in order to have a more productive conversation. That did not happen to be the article I was referring to, sorry for the confusion and putting my request in the other section. I was responding Jim's points on the Admin notice board. The article the edit war is happening on is Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption. I am willing to try this as an option because Blair is refusing to substantiate his position and instead blusters about me lying and vandalizing. I reallize my reverts weren't terribly helpful either, but at least mine are backed up by references. Blair has refused numerous requests to provide a reference backing his POV, and instead ignores any part of a discussion that does not go his way. Well he does have one source, it just doesn't claim the link he thinks it does. - Taxman 17:33, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * That is false. I made a point-by-point accounting in the talk page of the rationale for the differences I made in the paragraph you added. I pointed you to several sources (though you've proven in the past that you don't read what others reference) to show that the difference in your edit and mine is that mine is the one that's supported.  You're just a liar, in this case to cover up your trolling vandalism.  Blair P. Houghton 19:53, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * This isn't the place to discuss it, the talk page is. In any case, I have not only read your source, I've checked the study it's data is from, and several others. They don't support your point. Substantiate your claims on the talk page, in laborious detail if needed, or stop claiming I am the problem. - Taxman 20:11, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Have you thought of inviting Blair to mediate? This can be a good way for both sides of this kind of dispute--who are clearly arguing in good faith but have not necessarily been well behaved--to resolve their personal differences and establish better lines of communication. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 17:47, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Excess Post-exercise Oxygen Consumption
There's nothing to discuss. The facts were correct as of my last edit. Taxman's specious edits and irrational arguments are disruptive to the community. I recommend he be blocked and then banned. Blair P. Houghton 19:21, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've been dealing with this punk for weeks. By blindly acquiescing to his request to lock the page you've become another tool of his vandalism. He's mocking the system and contributing to the lack of credibility of the Wikipedia. Blair P. Houghton 19:49, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead and unprotect that page. I couldn't care less if it's got the truth in it any more, nor could I care less if Taxman continues to vandalize the Wikipedia and waste editors' time with his idiocy. Blair P. Houghton 22:33, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Just for the record, for anyone reading this, please check the article's talk page. I am very comfortable leaving that as a track record of evidence of where the problem lies. - Taxman 17:30, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * The problem lies in your inability to admit that your questions were answered and in your insistence on pretending to be the victim. You exhibited that on Weight Training and then again on the EPOC page.  If you wish to continue posting misinformation to an encyclopedia because you're antisocial, I'm not going to stop you.  Eventually you will learn how foolish you are, and then the world will agree with you.  Blair P. Houghton 03:02, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cecropia/Archive 13


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User talk:Rich Farmbrough/Prince Albert Day

Celebrated 4 April annually throughout the British Commonwealth, Prince Albert Day is a statutory holiday to commemorate the marriage of Prince Albert (Windsor) III on this day in 1898.

Celebration
The most popular way to celebrate includes taking in the Prince Albert Day parade in London (which passes through Trafalgar Square), which is also broadcast worldwide.

Young children take part in their day off by enjoying traditional British candy such as humbugs, licorice pops, and escargot (the types favoured by Prince Albert himself).


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George Cholmondeley, 3rd Earl of Cholmondeley

George Cholmondeley, 3rd Earl of Cholmondeley (2 January 1703 – 10 June 1770), styled as Viscount Malpas from 1725 to 1733, was a British Whig politician and nobleman who sat in the House of Commons from 1724 to 1733.

Life
Cholmondeley was the son of George Cholmondeley, 2nd Earl of Cholmondeley, and Elizabeth van Ruyterburgh (or Ruttenburg). He was elected to the House of Commons for East Looe in 1724, a seat he held until 1727, and then represented Windsor between 1727 and 1733, when he succeeded his father as third Earl of Cholmondeley and entered the House of Lords. He held office under his father-in-law Sir Robert Walpole as a Lord of the Admiralty from 1727 to 1729, as a Lord of the Treasury from 1735 to 1736 and as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster from 1736 to 1743 (from 1742 to 1743 under the premiership of The Earl of Wilmington). From 1743 to 1744 he also served as Lord Privy Seal under Henry Pelham and was Joint Vice-Treasurer of Ireland between 1744 and 1757. In 1736, he was admitted to the Privy Council.

Horace Walpole described him as "a vain and empty man, shoved up so high by his father-in-law, Sir Robert Walpole, and fallen into contempt and obscurity by his own extravagance and insufficiency."

Apart from his political career, Lord Cholmondeley was also Lord Lieutenant of Cheshire and South Wales (less Denbighshire) from 1733 to 1760. He was promoted to colonel in 1745, major-general in 1755, and lieutenant-general in 1759. He was also involved in the charitable effort to create a home for foundlings in London, which was hoped would alleviate the problem of child abandonment. The home became known as the Foundling Hospital and Cholmondeley sat on its board as a founding Governor.

Private life
Lord Cholmondeley married Lady Mary Walpole, daughter of Prime Minister Robert Walpole, 1st Earl of Orford, in 1723. He died on 10 June 1770, aged 67. His eldest son George Cholmondeley, Viscount Malpas, predeceased him and he was succeeded in his titles by his grandson George, who was created Marquess of Cholmondeley in 1815. His second son Robert (1727–1804) began his career as a lieutenant in the 3rd Foot Guards but resigned after the Battle of Lauffeld in July 1747 and became a minister. Robert was married to the socialite Mary Woffington.

The actress Maria Nossiter was the daughter of Lord Cholmondeley's "favourite" housekeeper. Maria was educated, had money and enjoyed a successful, but brief, career. It is supposed that she was his daughter.


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Monogatari

Monogatari (物語) is a literary form in traditional Japanese literature – an extended prose narrative tale comparable to epic literature. Monogatari is closely tied to aspects of the oral tradition, and almost always relates a fictional or fictionalized story, even when retelling a historical event. Many of the great works of Japanese fiction, such as the Genji Monogatari and the Heike Monogatari, are in the monogatari form.

History
The form was prominent around the 9th to 15th centuries, reaching a peak between the 10th and 11th centuries. Monogatari was the court literature during the Heian era and also persisted in the form of archaic fiction until the sixteenth century. According to the Fūyō Wakashū (1271), at least 198 monogatari existed by the 13th century and that only 24 exist today.

Genres
The genre is sub-divided into multiple categories depending on their contents:

Denki-monogatari
Stories dealing with fantastical events. • Taketori Monogatari (The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter)

• Utsubo Monogatari (The Tale of the Hollow Tree)

• Hyakumonogatari Kaidankai

Uta-monogatari
Stories drawn from poetry. • Heichū Monogatari (Tales of Heichū)

• Ise Monogatari (Tales of Ise)

• Yamato Monogatari (Tales of Yamato)

Tsukuri-monogatari
Aristocratic court romances. • Genji Monogatari (The Tale of Genji)

• Hamamatsu Chūnagon Monogatari

• Ochikubo Monogatari (The Tale of Ochikubo)

• Sagoromo Monogatari

• Torikaebaya Monogatari

• Tsutsumi Chūnagon Monogatari

• Yoru no Nezame (Wakeful Nights)

Rekishi-monogatari
Historical tales that emerged during the late Heian period, flourishing until the medieval age. These narratives were commonly written in kanbun (hybrid form of Chinese) or wabun (Japanese). Two of the most notable of this monogatari included the Eiga Monogatari and Ōkagami, which both narrated the story of Michinaga, the renowned Fujiwara regent.

Gunki-monogatari
Military chronicles and stories about war. • Gikeiki (The Tale of Yoshitsune)

• Heiji Monogatari (The Tale of Heiji)

• Heike Monogatari (The Tale of the Heike)

• Hōgen Monogatari (The Tale of Hōgen)

• Soga Monogatari (The Tale of the Soga Brothers)

• Taiheiki (Chronicle of Great Peace)

Setsuwa-monogatari
Anecdotal tales. • Konjaku Monogatarishū (Tales of Times Now Past)

• Uji Shūi Monogatari (A Collection of Tales from Uji)

Giko-monogatari
Pseudo-classical imitations of earlier tales. • Matsura no Miya Monogatari

• Sumiyoshi Monogatari

Influence
When European and other foreign literature later became known to Japan, the word monogatari began to be used in Japanese titles of foreign works of a similar nature. For example, A Tale of Two Cities is known as Nito Monogatari (二都物語), One Thousand and One Nights as Sen'ichiya Monogatari (千一夜物語) and more recently The Lord of the Rings as Yubiwa Monogatari (指輪物語) and To Kill a Mockingbird as Arabama Monogatari (アラバマ物語).

title: Monogatari


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Woodseats

Woodseats is a district of Sheffield, South Yorkshire in the Graves Park ward. Historically, Norton Woodseats was a village that straddled Derbyshire Lane running from Four Lane Ends to Bolehill (now part of Graves Park), originally in Derbyshire but since 1901, part of the City of Sheffield.

The name Woodseats comes from the Old English Wodesettes, which means a 'fold in a wood'. Nether Woodseats itself was little more than a cluster of cottages around a road called 'The Dale' close to the intersection of Woodseats Road and Chesterfield Road (A61) and Upper Woodseats, near the Abbey Lane and Chesterfield Road junction.

The first annual Woodseats Festival took place in July 2006.

Schools
There are two schools in the Woodseats area: Abbey Lane Primary School and Woodseats Primary School.

Current public houses
There are a number of public houses situated on Chesterfield Road:

 * Sport Shack, Chesterfield Road, was formerly a Greggs bakery and a charity shop. The building has had a dramatic transformation to become Woodseats first sports bar. The brand owned by Daniel Grayson and James Dobson operate 2 other venues in Sheffield, located in Hillsborough, Sheffield and Ecclesall Road.
 * The Woodseats Palace, Chesterfield Road, was formerly a cinema, opened in 1911. The building later housed various supermarkets (Fine Fare, Kwik Save, Alldays) and is now a Wetherspoons Free House.
 * The Chantrey Arms, Chesterfield Road, named after sculptor Sir Francis Chantrey who was born nearby in Norton.
 * The Big Tree, Chesterfield Road, was once called Masons Arms but was renamed in 1936 after the large tree which grew in front of the building. Ironically, by the time the name had been changed the tree in question had been pulled down, reputedly by an elephant from a touring circus that had been tethered to it. A new tree was planted in its place that lasted until the 1980s when it blew down after becoming diseased after which it too was replaced.  The pub's past links are shown by masonic symbols inlaid into the floor but these are now covered by carpets.  The pub was known as Brewburgers for a short period in the 1980s.
 * The Abbey, Chesterfield Road, features a trapezoidal bowling green and is one of the last pubs in Sheffield to retain its bowling facilities.

Former public houses

 * The Woodseats Hotel, Chesterfield Road, made the National news when Firkin Brewery changed its name to the Floozey and Firkin. The Woodseats Hotel closed in 2010 and was converted into a restaurant, operating as the Viraaj.

Cinemas
Woodseats once boasted two cinemas but neither of these are still in existence.

The Woodseats Palace

Situated on Chesterfield Road the Woodseats Palace opened in 1911 and closed some time in the late 1950s. The building subsequently became a supermarket under various names until it was eventually bought by the Wetherspoons chain and is now The Woodseats Palace public house.

The Chantrey Picture House

Situated on Chesterfield Road this building was subsequently used as offices for a number of years by the construction company Gleesons.

Churches
Churches in Woodseats include: St Chad's Parish Church, Woodseats Evangelical Church, The Well at Woodseats and Woodseats Methodist Church.

Our Lady of Beauchief and St Thomas of Canterbury
A Roman Catholic church situated at the boundary of Woodseats and Meadowhead. Our Lady of St Thomas was founded at the request of local Catholics who had been meeting at the Big Tree public house due to the lack of a suitable church in the area. The first building was erected in 1910 and remained as a temporary structure until the existing building was erected and opened in 1932.

St Chad's Church
The first stone of the building was laid on 3 August 1911. The nave and aisles were built first and the church was consecrated on 25 July 1912, costing £5,100. The chancel, vestries and organ were added in 1933 and cost £4,460. The original design of the building was modelled on 14th century English designs and is the only Anglican church designed by the Catholic architects Hadfield & Hadfield.

The church was built using local rubble for the walls, Bath stone for the window tracery and nave arcade, and Westmorland slates for the roof.

The Vicarage was built in 1914 for £1,800 and is one of the last large vicarages to be built.

Today St Chad's Church, situated on Linden Avenue, is a lively church which seeks to serve the community.

It has regular Sunday services at 9am and 11.00am as well as youth activities, small groups and a thriving Third Age Ministry reaching out to older people in the community.

Other notable buildings
Other places of note include: The Double Six Youth Club and Woodseats Scout Unit.

Woodseats Medical Centre, Woodseats Library, Lloyds Pharmacy
Opening in 2017, The Roddick Building is built on the site of the old Woodseats Library. Built as a community hub by the owners of the Medical Centre, it houses both the Public Library on the ground floor, the Medical Centre on the second floor and offices related to the Medical Centre on the third floor. There is also a Lloyds Pharmacy attached next to the main entrance.

The building is step free access, with the Library being on the bottom floor, and with two lifts serving the Medical Centre, there are two Disabled Parking bays but the rest of the parking is for staff only.

Woodseats Police Station
A station which used to have an incident desk, Woodseats Police Station lost this amenity in the mid-2000s. The station is a staffed station, but has no public access. It is the base for the Sheffield South West Policing Team.

Sport
Woodseats is currently represented by two footballing teams; Woodseats FC and Woodseats B FC. Both currently compete in the Sheffield & District Fair Play League.

Parks
Graves Park is situated around the area. Trees rise up on the hillside and the park is home to two playgrounds, tennis courts, golf course, animal farm, waterfall wood, and a large waterfall.

In popular culture
In the 1977 film The Price of Coal, a reference is made to a militant colliery at Woodseats where the officials are Communists and would not endorse a visit by royalty. In fact, there was no colliery at Woodseats at the time.

title: Woodseats


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Nick Anderson (basketball)

Nelison "Nick" Anderson (born January 20, 1968) is an American former professional basketball player who played for the Orlando Magic, Sacramento Kings, and Memphis Grizzlies of the National Basketball Association (NBA).

Born in Chicago, Illinois, Anderson played high school basketball at Simeon Career Academy where he was named "Illinois Mr. Basketball" for 1986 after leading his team to the city championship and a top national ranking in USA Today.

Anderson would go on to play at the University of Illinois for three years. He was then drafted by the Orlando Magic in the 1989 NBA draft. He currently serves the Magic in several off-the-court functions and was elected to the "Illini Men's Basketball All-Century Team" in 2004.

College career
Anderson attended the University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign for three years, playing on the team that reached the NCAA Final Four in 1989; that Fighting Illini team was given the nickname "Flyin' Illini" by Dick Vitale. Among Anderson's teammates were Kendall Gill, Stephen Bardo, Kenny Battle, Lowell Hamilton, and Marcus Liberty; all of these except Hamilton would go on to play in the NBA.

Early years
Anderson left school and entered the NBA draft in 1989, where he was selected with the 11th pick of the first round by the Orlando Magic. As the Magic were an expansion team that season, Anderson was the first draft pick in the franchise's history.

Like most expansion franchises, the Magic were a young team and Anderson was one of its few bright spots. As a result, the Magic were awarded high draft picks in several consecutive years, including Dennis Scott in 1990, Shaquille O'Neal in 1992, and Chris Webber, who was traded for a package including Penny Hardaway in 1993. In his first few seasons, Anderson was the Magic's top scoring option, and led the team in points per game during the 1991–92 season. As the team's talent level increased, Anderson was gradually relegated to a lesser offensive role but remained a consistent member of the team's starting lineup. Exceptions include the April 23, 1993 game at New Jersey, in which he scored a career-high 50 points off the bench. In 1994–95, Anderson led Orlando in three-pointers with 179, and averaged 15.9 points per game. The Magic won 57 games, finished with the best record in the Eastern Conference, and won their first ever Atlantic Division title.

1994–95 postseason
In the Eastern Conference semifinals, the Magic faced the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan, who had recently returned from an aborted baseball career wearing the number 45 instead of his famous number 23. At the end of Game One, Anderson famously stripped Jordan from behind, leading to the game-winning basket for the Magic. He later commented that Jordan "didn't look like the old Michael Jordan" and that "No. 45 doesn't explode like No. 23 used to." Jordan then returned to wearing his old number in the next game, scoring 38 points in a Bulls win; the Magic would bounce back and win the series to advance to their first NBA Finals.

Game One of the NBA Finals was against the defending champion Houston Rockets, at the Orlando Arena. With the Magic up by three points late in the game, Anderson, typically a 70% free throw shooter, missed four consecutive free throws that could have sealed the victory for Orlando. Kenny Smith hit a three-pointer for Houston shortly thereafter, tying the game and sending it to overtime. The Rockets went on to win the game in overtime and eventually swept the Magic, winning their second consecutive NBA Championship. As a result of this incident, some Orlando fans began to label Anderson with the derogatory nicknames of "Nick the Brick" and "Brick Anderson".

Post-1995 career
He showed no immediate effect from his struggles in the 1995 finals, as he had another strong season in 1995–96. However, his season ended due to a wrist injury in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Finals. After that, Anderson's career took an abrupt downward spiral, largely due to a sudden inability to shoot free throws. During the 1996–97 season, Anderson's free throw shooting percentage tumbled to a career-low 40.4% and his scoring average to 12.0 points per game. Anderson had to be removed from the closing minutes of several close games due to being an unreliable free throw shooter.

His struggles worsened through the first half of the 1997–98 season. Through January 27 of that season, Anderson was averaging only 6.5 points per game, and shooting a paltry 36.3% from the free throw line. However, in the second half of the season, Anderson experienced a sudden career revival, as his scoring average abruptly jumped to 22.6 points per game, and his free throw percentage improved to a 67.6%, a figure close to his former career average. He ended the season with a scoring average of 15.3 points per game.

Anderson would play on with the Magic through the lockout-shortened 1998–99 season, after which he was traded to the Sacramento Kings for Tariq Abdul-Wahad and draft compensation. He left Orlando as the team's career scoring leader. He was the last player remaining from the Magic's original expansion roster, having remained with the franchise for ten seasons.

He played two seasons in Sacramento, averaging a career-low at that point, 10.8 points per contest in 72 games his first season. He played 21 games the next season, and 15 games in his final season, in which he played for the Memphis Grizzlies.

Anderson works for the Orlando Magic in the team's community relations department. He also serves as a commentator for Fox Sports Florida during the Magic's pre-game, halftime and post-game shows.

High school

 * 1986 – IHSA 1st Team All-State
 * 1986 – Parade Magazine 2nd Team All-American
 * 1986 – McDonald's All-American
 * 1986 – Illinois Mr. Basketball
 * 2013 – Inducted into the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association's Hall of Fame as a player.

College

 * 1988 – Illini Co-MVP
 * 1988 – 2nd Team All-Big Ten
 * 1988 – Honorable Mention All American
 * 1989 – Illini MVP
 * 1989 – 1st Team All-Big Ten
 * 1989 – NCAA All-Regional Team (MOP)
 * 1989 – Honorable Mention All American
 * 1989 – First player ever drafted by the Orlando Magic.
 * 2004 – Elected to the "Illini Men's Basketball All-Century Team".
 * 2008 – Honored as one of the 33 honored jerseys which hang in the State Farm Center to show regard for being the most decorated basketball players in the University of Illinois' history.
 * 2017 – Inducted into the Illinois Athletics Hall of Fame

title: Nick Anderson (basketball)


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CIOPW

CIOPW is a collection of artwork by E. E. Cummings published in 1931. The title is an acronym made from the initial letters of the five media Cummings used to produce the collection: charcoal, ink, oil, pencil, and watercolours.

CIOPW contains 99 works, 27 of which are drawings and 72 of which are paintings. Since it is Cummings' art and not his words that are on display, the title is also to be read as the ancient Greek word σιωπῶ ('I am silent'} with (i) a so-called lunate sigma, (ii) iota, (iii) an omicron, (iv) a pi rather than a "Ρ" (rho) to keep the sound the same, and (v) an accented omega to represent "W" visually. The title should thus be pronounced "see-ô-pô", with the stress on the last syllable. Compare his other Greek titles EIMI = εἰμί ('I am'); and XAIPE = χαῖρε (pronounced "chaire," with a guttural ch), "greetings, be well".

title: CIOPW


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Korean Basketball League

The Korean Basketball League (한국프로농구) or simply KBL is a professional men's basketball league in South Korea which was established in 1997. The league consists of ten teams and each team plays a total of 54 games (27 home and 27 away) in the regular season.

History
The Korean Basketball League was established in 1997. Prior to the professional era, domestic basketball was an amateur sport and all teams, whether sponsored by a corporate company or a university, participated in the National Basketball Festival, a competition sanctioned by the Korea Basketball Association. Early teams were sponsored by major corporate companies or universities. The Korea Development Bank (KDB) and Industrial Bank of Korea (IBK) established their basketball teams as early as the 1950s and 1960s while Yonsei University and Korea University are considered pioneers of domestic college basketball, having introduced the sport to their institutions before World War II. During the 1970s and 1980s, major industrial companies such as Kia Motors, Hyundai Electronics and Samsung Electronics started their own basketball teams. The predecessor teams of Goyang Orion Orions, Anyang KGC and Wonju DB Promy were founded during the 1990s by smaller-scale companies hoping to take advantage of the "basketball craze".

Professional era
The 1996–97 National Basketball Festival ended in January 1997, and the inaugural KBL season began one month later in February. The National Basketball Festival remains an amateur-only tournament to this day and is contested by university reserve teams, amateur teams and the Korea Armed Forces Athletic Corps's basketball team.

Sponsoring companies were given the option to register their basketball teams in the upcoming professional league. KDB and IBK opted to sell their teams; however, their new owners chose to re-start the teams as brand new franchises, only acquiring their players and staff but not inheriting the team's legacy or historical records. The founding teams were Busan Kia Enterprise, Gyeongnam LG Sakers, Daegu Tongyang Orions, Suwon Samsung Thunders, Wonju Naray Blue Bird, Anyang SBS Stars, Incheon Daewoo Zeus, Daejeon Hyundai Dynat, and Gwangju Nasan Flamans. Some of the teams, such as Anyang SBS Stars, had been based in Seoul but chose to move to another city. The plan was to have a team based in each geographical region rather than only centralized in the Seoul Capital Area. The 1997–98 season was the first full season played and the tenth team, Cheongju SK Knights, was added as a member. The KBL has had ten teams ever since.

The early years of the league were plagued by the financial instability, exacerbated by the 1997 Asian financial crisis which had impacted South Korea especially hard. As with other domestic sports leagues, the KBL was not immune to the economic fall-out. The KBL had difficulty finding a league sponsor for the 1997–98 season while teams were forced to cut costs. Between 1997 and 2001, five of the ten teams had changed ownership due to financial problems.

Format
The KBL follows FIBA rules regarding standards of play and court dimensions.

For the regular season, the round-robin format is utilized as each team plays against every other team six times (three home and three away). A total of 54 games are played in six rounds. Only the top six teams in the regular season standings advance to the post-season playoffs.

KBL Cup
The KBL Cup was first introduced in 2020 as a pre-season competition for all teams to test out their strengths before the commencement of the regular season.

It is generally held in September. Aside from the participation of all 10 teams of the KBL league, Sangmu Basketball Team also participates in the KBL Cup, making it a total of 11 teams.

Regular season
The regular season runs from October to early April. Each team plays against the other nine teams six times (3 home and 3 away). A total of 54 games are played in six rounds.

The annual KBL Award Ceremony takes place right after the end of the regular season.

Teams which failed to qualify for the post-season playoffs take a short break before commencing their off-season training to prepare them for the upcoming season.

Post-season playoffs
The playoffs usually begin a week after the end of the regular season.

Only the top six teams in the regular season standings advance to the post-season playoffs.

The qualification of the six teams for either the quarter-finals or semi-finals of the playoffs are determined by their regular season standings. The teams ranked from third to sixth qualify for the quarter-finals, and the teams ranked first and second earn an automatic advancement to the semi-finals.

The quarter-finals are played in a best-of-three format. The two winning teams of the quarter-finals then advance to the semi-finals.

The semi-finals are played in a best-of-five format. The two winning teams of the semi-finals then compete for the KBL championship title in the finals.

The finals are played in a best-of-seven format.

KBL All-Star Game
The KBL All-Star Game is held in mid-January every year. The event is usually held in Seoul, except for multiple occasions where it was held outside of Seoul (2007 in Ulsan, 2017 in Busan, and 2021 in Daegu).

Based on the 2021–22 All-Star Game format, five players from each of the ten teams are nominated for the All-Star fan vote. Only the top 24 players in the fan vote standings are selected to participate in the All-Star Game. The two players with the most number of votes form their respective teams by recruiting eleven players each, regardless of their original teams.

Prize money

 * Champions (finals winners)
 * KRW 100,000,000 + trophy (1997–present)
 * Runners-up (finals losers)
 * KRW 50,000,000 (1997–present)
 * Regular season first place
 * KRW 50,000,000 + trophy (1997–2005)
 * KRW 100,000,000 + trophy (2005–present)
 * Regular season second place
 * KRW 30,000,000 (1997–2005)
 * KRW 50,000,000 (2005–present)
 * Regular season third place
 * KRW 20,000,000 (1997–2005)
 * KRW 30,000,000 (2005–present)

Awards
The KBL awards ceremony is held annually at the end of the regular season. As of the 2020–21 season, the following honours are awarded:
 * Most Valuable Player (MVP)
 * Rookie of the Year
 * Foreign Player of the Year
 * Best 5
 * Defensive Player of the Year
 * Defensive Best 5
 * Sixth Man Award
 * Skill Development Award
 * Fair Play Award
 * Play of the Season
 * Popularity Award
 * Coach of the Year

The awards ceremony takes place at the conclusion of the regular season, before the playoffs begin. The Playoffs MVP is only awarded at the conclusion of the final Championship game.

Domestic players
Domestic players, defined as possessing South Korean citizenship according to FIBA laws, are recruited through an annual rookie draft. The draft was held since 1998. In 2009, an ethnic draft was introduced to allow the recruitment of players who have acquired South Korean nationality, or either of their parents is a Korean. Players recruited through ethnic drafts are waived from being counted as an import player. However, due to the controversial nature of the recruitment rules and the backlash, the ethnic draft was eventually abolished in 2013.

Import players
From 2018, all teams are allowed to freely select their import players, subject to a "two-import" quota per team and a salary cap of $700,000. Only one foreign player is allowed to play on court in every quarter.

Asian player quota
In a move to further develop the quality of basketball in the country, the "Asian Player Quota" programme was introduced ahead of the 2020–21 season for Japanese players. This programme allows each team to recruit one Japanese player (excluding naturalized, dual citizenship and mixed race players) from Japan's B.League. Players recruited under the "Asian Player Quota" programme are excluded from the foreign player quota, and included in the domestic player salary cap. Wonju DB Promy became the first team in the league to recruit a Japanese player, as they inked a one-year deal with Taichi Nakamura. Ahead of the 2022–23 season, the programme was extended to Filipino players (owns a Philippine passport and both parents must have either Philippine citizenship or passport). In June 2022, Daegu KOGAS Pegasus becomes the first team to recruit a Filipino player, as they announced a two-year deal with SJ Belangel.

Mandatory military service
Players of the Korean Basketball League are eligible to apply to fulfil their military service obligations as members of the Korea Armed Forces Athletic Corps. Alongside military duties, they are allowed to train as professional athletes and play for the Sangmu Basketball Team. Successful applicants officially enlists in May or June and are discharged eighteen months later in January, returning to the team rosters for the final rounds of the regular season.

title: Korean Basketball League