text:
Talk:The Royal Opera

Question
Oliver Chettle, could you explain why you just reverted my merge of this article with Royal Opera House? Having two separate articles complicates things for those of us writing articles on operatic topics, particularly biographies of singers. The only case I found it to be necessary is Paris, where the Opéra National de Paris has been associated with more than one venue (Opera Bastille and Paris Opera). In all the other articles, the company and the house are dealt with together on one page since they are for all practical purposes one. Viajero 10:31, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * They are not one. They are legally separate, just as the Royal Ballet and the building are separate. The theatre is much older than the company. The Royal Opera House should not be categorised in opera companies because it is not an opera company. Oliver Chettle 11:46, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, I am aware that, technically speaking, they are not one. However, in cases where the opera company has not been associated with two (or more) theaters for which we have entries, it makes sense to deal with them both on the same page. In nearly every singer biography, there is a line which goes something like this: "in 19xx singer X made his/her debut in [London]", where [London] is a variable. Hitherto, we have had to choose between linking to the "Royal Opera House" (the locale) or to "London" (the public); either is correct. Now you complicate things further by adding a third option: the company. Did singer X perform at the hall or with the company? In virtually all cases, the answer is: both. If you look at any other article on a major opera house, such as La Scala or Berlin State Opera you will see that the house(s) and the company are intertwined. It is not ideal but serves our purposes better than splitting things in separate pages. Please reconsider, especially given the fact that all of the information on this page can safely be brought under ROH, as my original merge demonstrated. -- Viajero 12:27, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * "Legally separate" is not a very useful distinction for the Wikipedia reader who might be kept in mind more constantly than she is. Is it really sensible to have two articles on each major opera venue, one for the house and one for the paper corporation that may or may not own the physical plant? Perhaps Oliver Chettle will take pity on the reader and the rest of us. --Wetman 13:41, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually everything I do on Wikipedia is done for the readers not for the comparatively tiny number of editors. I am unconvinced by the arguments put forward. The opera company article is just as legitimate as the ballet company article (I hope I haven't now exposed that to attack). The building has a long history which does not really relate to the present performing company, and much that should be written about the company has little to do with the building. Oliver Chettle 04:49, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Royal Opera content moved from ROH page
I have moved the Royal Opera content from the Royal Opera House page. This leaves one article for the building and an article each for the two companies that use it as a home. For history of earlier edits of most of the content, please see the ROH history page. Humansdorpie 09:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Name
Shouldn't this page be moved to "Royal Opera (London)" if (as I assume) the intent is to disambiguate with other foreign opera companies with royal patronage? "Royal Opera, London" is not a proper noun, or at least it's not at all commonly employed as such. I believe it's Wiki practice to put the disambiguator in parentheses. Badgerpatrol (talk) 09:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

 * See "Name redux" below. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Uncited material
I am gathering material to overhaul this article substantially. If any editor has so far contributed any uncited contributions to the present article, may I invite him/her to add citations in the next week or so? Many thanks – Tim riley (talk) 13:05, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

PR
I have added some info and removed uncited material, and put the article up for peer review, where comments will be most gratefully received. Tim riley (talk) 20:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

PR - supplementary comments
Copied, with minor edits, from my talk page: comments from User:GuillaumeTell received after PR closed:

 * The BBCTV series "The House" deserves its own article, don't you think? There's some information at IMDB and probably more elsewhere.  I could knock something up fairly quickly if you like.
 * That would be splendid: many thanks. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I've now unleashed The House (television documentary) on an unsuspecting world. Corrections, comments, etc., welcome. --GuillaumeTell 21:58, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In connexion with the above, I see that there's no article for Nicholas Payne, who was Director of Opera at the ROH from 1993-98. Since the article is specifically about The Royal Opera, it would be good if previous and future Directors of Opera (e.g. Elaine Padmore (how's your Danish?) and now Kasper Holten) could be listed with dates and, perhaps, comments.  (I'm not sure when the title was created).
 * Blast! I was already conscious that this was a bit of a gap, and was hoping no-one would notice. I don't systematically keep old ROH programmes, and I can't think where else I could get this info. Any suggestions? Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * This has, as I feared, turned out to be impossible from the sources I can lay hands on. Tim riley (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * No mention of the first British performances of Jenůfa (Kubelik, 1956) at the ROH.
 * Good. Will add. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Now done. Tim riley (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "Pioneered works by Benjamin Britten"? Only Billy Budd and Gloriana, his 6th and 7th operas, premiered at the ROH (both in the 1950s, not the 1960s).
 * But they were pretty quick off the mark with revivals of Grimes etc. Happy to reword, though. Will ponder. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Redrawn. Tim riley (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Opera in English: I'm fairly sure that some operas are still occasionally performed in English, e.g. The Bartered Bride and The Cunning Little Vixen both conducted by Sir Charles Mackerras (not mentioned at all in the article) not long before his death, and, less recently, The Carmelites in 1983. Poulenc, I seem to remember, wanted it always to be performed in the language of the audience.
 * Excellent point. I can get this from the newish ROH performance database. Will do so pre-FAC. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added the Carmelites and the Vixen as examples. (Flattering that Crespin was willing to learn her role in English for the former.)
 * "Prom performances" ought to be explained, as people might think that there is some connexion with The Proms. Talking of the latter, did the visits to the Proms really last for "many years"?  How many?  I can't remember hearing or seeing anything about them.
 * Will do. The second point can probably be confirmed from archives of The Times or Guardian, to which I have access. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Both RAH and ROH prom references redrawn. Tim riley (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "atonal and other modern operas" - dangerous ground unless you can say what atonal means! Zemlinsky was neither an atonal nor a modern composer ...
 * For Zemlinsky the word "boring" might be better, but point taken. I'll redraw. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Tim riley (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Linbury - what is meant by "resident companies"?
 * The Opera and Ballet companies. Not clear, do you think? I'll revisit. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Redrawn Tim riley (talk) 11:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * RO touring - I saw the company in Manchester (Lohengrin and Otello) in 1981, maybe their last tour?
 * That would be about right. Again, the Guardian archive should confirm. I'll delve before proceeding much further. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * They tried to pull out after 1982, but there was an outcry and a threat of legal action from the Manchester venue, so the planned visit in 1983 went ahead at vast expense. It was the last one.
 * Somewhere, I spotted "organization" - does this count as British English these days?
 * It does in The Times, which still maddeningly clings to H.W. Fowler's pedantic precept that words taken from the Greek have –ize endings but words filtered through French are –ise. Wahn! There are two "izes" within Times quotes in the article. Tim riley (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Further comments: --GuillaumeTell 00:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * One problem that I've been pondering is the likelihood that drive-by editors may wish to add their favourite ROH singers (currently 61), conductors (27), composers (35), operas (48), directors (only 9 - where is Richard Jones?) and/or designers (currently a big fat zero) to the article. There's therefore a bit of a question about what the criteria for inclusion ought to be. I also note that there's a rather noticeable bulge in operas near the end of the article.....
 * Point taken about drive-by edits by fans of Madame X or Signor Y. Rather to my surprise the analogous WP article on the ENO hasn't suffered thus, though of course the Garden attracts the canary fanciers more than the Coliseum does. I'm not sure one can in practice set a criterion for inclusion. I don't think we should mention directors more than necessary; it only encourages them. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * No mention of Jette Parker (formerly Alberto Vilar ...) Young Artists programme. They're doing Il viaggio a Reims next summer.
 * Done. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Nor the not-entirely-successful Edward Downes attempt to perform all of Verdi's operas, including early versions, to celebrate (I think) the centenary of his death.
 * Excellent point. I'll research this and add something fairly solid. Successful or not, it was a remarkable undertaking. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Now done. Tim riley (talk) 15:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Should summer seasons of Russian operas (e.g. Semyon Kotko, War and Peace, Boris Godunov) performed by Gergiev and the Mariinsky Opera at the ROH in 2000 and 2005 get a mention?
 * I think not, because they were nothing to do with the Royal Opera company per se. They could well go in the Royal Opera House article if wanted. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * No mention of Lord Chadlington (at least by name) who was involved in the great post-"The House" goings-on.
 * Done. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Worth mentioning Paul Bunyan, performed at the Shaftesbury Theatre during the Opera House shutdown; also (I'm sure about this - it's in Michael Kaiser's book!) the cancellation of Le Grand Macabre which was to open the refurbished Opera House, because the stage machinery wasn't working properly.
 * I'm afraid I disagree about mentioning Paul Bunyan; it came from and has returned to a well-merited obscurity. I'll mention the Ligeti; bit of luck about the stage machinery - opening with Falstaff was a much better arrangement. Tim riley (talk)
 * Operas not mentioned that I think should have been: The Fiery Angel, Matilde di Shabran, Die Fledermaus, King Priam, Iphigénie en Tauride.....
 * I'll mention King Priam and add the names of the Poulenc and Ravel works already alluded to at the same point. Of your other suggestions I am in two minds whether The Fiery Angel is noteworthy; I've never heard of Matilde di Shabran; and Fledermaus, surely, goes without saying - just as, say, The Barber, Butterfly and Trovatore do, none of which is specifically mentioned. I'll add the Gluck. (Oddly, the only perf I've seen of the last at the ROH wasn't by the Royal Opera but by the English Bach Festival - all frightfully authenticke.) I hope I needn't emphasise that if you think I'm wrong about the Angel etc (and Paul Bunyan too) there will be no bleating from me if you choose to add them yourself. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Priam and Iphigénie now added. Tim riley (talk) 15:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment on the Linbury: a small number of Royal Opera productions, e.g. Powder Her Face, have been performed there, but mostly the repertory is things like Birtwistle's "Punch and Judy" performed by small companies such as Music Theatre Wales and The Opera Group.  Dunno about the ballet, but that's not part of this article.
 * Redrawn. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the Deborah Voigt little black dress (Ariadne auf Naxos) imbroglio.
 * Certainly not. We Rileys don't bandy a lady's name. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I am mightily grateful for these points. We differ on a few of them, but I think the article will be much improved when I have finished incorporating the rest, which I shall now go and do. Thank you very much. Tim riley (talk) 13:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not too bothered by the suggestions that you've rejected (others may disagree, of course!). I've looked through the additions, etc., and everything seems in order.  I'll see if I can find out when the term "Director of Opera" first appeared, and if I do, it should be easy to add a third column to the table with all the names.  Payne and Padmore really do need WP entries, which I may be able to start if/when I'm in a position to provide names and dates. --GuillaumeTell 11:44, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Many thanks! Tim riley (talk) 13:15, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Table
The new table for Chief Exec, Dir of Music, Dir of Opera kindly done by GuillaumeTell: by necessity of the current format, many fields are blank. Would a table a bit like the one here produce a more elegant table?
 * It's certainly worth considering, but from a quick look at the link it is a bit beyond my capabilities. Might you have time and inclination to attempt such a thing on our behalf? Tim riley (talk) 14:24, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If no one here is au fait with them I would be happy to give it a bash! In my sandbox at first, of course  almost - instinct 15:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know for a definite fact that other contributors to the article are as technically inept as I am, but I suspect that if the table is to be reformatted it will probably be you who does it. It's a most handsome offer. Thank you. Tim riley (talk) 16:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Seconded. I clicked the link and my eyes glazed over.  By the way, I intend to add refs to the names in the Director of Opera column and also (somehow) a note to say that Peter "little black dress" Katona (not the Slovakian footballer) is actually still on board with the title "Director of Casting". --GuillaumeTell 18:17, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Depending on what I come up with, you might regret the "handsome" bit ;-) Right, here goes....  almost - instinct 20:13, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I think its fair to say I'm quite pleased with that! I had to create the fourth column, to stop the table misbehaving. I suggest all the stuff currently under the table goes into that column. Do not attempt to do anything clever with that fourth column! Just replace the "none" with info or leave it be. I couldn't find a reason for the misbehaviour but this solution works  almost - instinct 21:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

 * My word! That's very fine. Thank you so much! For my own part, I'd drop the fourth column if it were technically possible and leave the explanations of the various titles as footnotes, but I'd be glad to see what Guillaume Tell thinks. Meanwhile, please accept my loud applause. Tim riley (talk) 21:45, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Without the fourth column it didn't overlap things properly, and compressed it from 20 lines to 14. Very annoying. Alternatively, I could turn the fourth column into a prelimary column and put the dates in there?  almost - instinct 21:55, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

 * As we can't do away with the fourth column, it occurs to to me that we can make good use of it by listing the Chairmen of the ROH Board. I think I can dig the names and dates out quickly, if you would then be so kind as to add them and move/delete cell top and bottom boundaries accordingly. Is that all right?

 * The important thing about the fourth column is that each cell must be only one cell deep. Hmm, I don't know how to express myself. Put it this way: a fourth column which overlaps like the first three do won't stop the table from misbehaving  almost - instinct 10:10, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

To improve the look of the fourth column I have moved the notes that GT put underneath the table into the various cells. Also in that column I have replaced the "none"s with endashes. I think this column looks significantly less bogus now! I think GT might not like how I mangled with his prose while turning moving the info into the table: I think the text in the 4th column needs a ce :-)  almost - instinct 10:31, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

 * I see, I think. While you were doing that I dug out the names of the chairmen since 1944. No use for the table perhaps, but I list them here for the record:

 * Lord Keynes 1944–46
 * Lord Waverley 1946–58
 * Lord Drogheda 1958–74
 * Sir Claus Moser 1974–87
 * Sir John Sainsbury 1987–91
 * Sir Angus Stirling 1991–96
 * Lord Chadlington 1996–97
 * Sir Colin Southgate 1998–2003
 * Dame Judith Mayhew 2003–08
 * Simon Robey 2008–

 * See here for how the the removal of the fourth column compresses the table incorrectly  almost - instinct 11:23, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

 * I've made some additions and alterations. It looks to me as if everyones's title ought to be in the fourth column.  Capitalisation of titles needs standardising.  As far as chairmen are concerned, they don't relate only to the opera company, of course, but how would the table look if a fifth column was added for them on the left? --GuillaumeTell 11:40, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * My monitor is a widescreen so a fifth column would work for me, but I suspect that on traditional monitors it would snarl things up.... Should the list of chairman be on the page for the building rather than the opera company? Could notes also be added to explain the various "none"s in columns 1-3?  almost - instinct 11:50, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to leave the chairman out of the chart. I'll ponder on adding them to the article on the Opera House. At all events, I'm prodigiously grateful to both GT and A-i for the input on this. Tim riley (talk) 13:19, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

 * I appreciate everyone's efforts here, but I'm beginning to think that column 4 as it is now could cause confusion and/or (more likely) bafflement. Given the large amount of available blank space, wouldn't it be better if there would be, underneath, say, John Tooley's name, a line saying "General administrator, 1970-80" and another line saying "General director, 1980-1988".  The fourth column could then just be used for other notes and refs, where appropriate.

 * Actually, the Chief Executive, I've just realised, is, like the Chairman, in charge of both the opera and ballet companies. Shouldn't we either have both or neither in the table...? --GuillaumeTell 17:47, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

I can imagine arguments being made for the inclusion of the Chief Executive, despite the exclusion of the Chairman... But that's not really my dept. Question for GT: In 1971-3, between Ingpen and Schmidt when Colin Davis was the new musical director, what was Peter Hall's title? Given what it says here should he be in the table, too?  almost - instinct 15:14, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Shoving the Riley oar in, P Hall was named as "Director of Productions", but backed out in July 1971 before taking up the post, which he was due to do in September 1971. (The Times, 8 July 1971, p.1)
 * Would that information be worthy of the "notes" column? Presumably Dir of Prods would have been the equivalent of Dir of Opera? Would explain why that position was vacant for a bit  almost - instinct 18:36, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I'd be inclined to leave it out, but Guillaume's views on this would be gratefully received. Tim riley (talk)

As soon as I've remembered how I built this table I'll get it ready for Tony Hall's successor!  almost - instinct 16:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Right I've got it all ready. The info about dates may want clarifying - I was just putting text in for the sake of it, really  almost - instinct 21:31, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

While the Table rumbles on ...
... this article has become a FA! Great effort, Tim. --GuillaumeTell 18:01, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, sir! The effort was much aided by the attentions of others, naming no eponymous Rossini heroes. Tim riley (talk) 16:48, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Berlioz: Les Troyens last performance
This article claims that Les Troyens has not been performed at Covent Garden since 1972, although Scottish Opera gave one or two performances there around 1990, I think. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 18:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. I shall check and amend as needed. This article is only about the resident company's productions, otherwise (gasps as ROH luminaries reach for their sal volatile) we should have to mention - aargh - Gilbert and Sullivan and Welsh National Opera. I'm a bit hazy about productions of The Trojans at the ROH, though I know the Great Dame appeared at short notice as Dido in 1969, borrowed from the Scottish Opera production at short notice when Josephine Veasey was taken ill. Dame Janet sang in English and the rest of the cast sang in French, but, I am told by one who was there, it was stupendous nonetheless. But I digress. I'll research and report back. Tim riley (talk) 20:24, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the only Offenbach (apart from Hoffmann) I have ever seen in Covent Garden was the Komische Oper once doing ‘Ritter Blaubart’. Visits by the Kirov and Bolshoi will have confused the situation also. Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 19:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Name redux
Badgerpatrol raised a question back in 2008 that's never been addressed (see "Name" above). I thought I'd look into it, by starting with the sister company The Royal Ballet.

The differences in naming approaches are obvious:

 * the ballet's article starts with "The", presumably because the company's name starts with this word. Well, The Royal Opera also has a "The" (see here), but we seem to do without it here.  My awareness of it having now come into existence, I find that's an inconsistency that I could not comfortably live with.

 * then the issue Badger raised: the word "London", and whether it's part of the name proper or should be merely a disambiguation tag. The name of the company is just "The Royal Opera".  It seems to me that if we're going to be adding "London" in to make the article title meaningful and not ambiguous, we can't do it by pretending the company is actually called "Royal Opera, London" - because it's not.  This is disambiguation, no more and no less, and so the least we should do is move the article to Royal Opera (London).

But before making any move, we really have to achieve symmetry between this article's name and that of The Royal Ballet. Mostly, article names are matters for agreement among the editors who work on that article alone, but there are cases where a bigger picture approach is called for. Hence, we name all the numbered symphonies by any given composer according to a standard format - "Symphony No. X (surname)" - and anyone who creates Havergal Brian's Fifth Symphony would find it quickly moved to Symphony No. 5 (Brian). This is a much smaller instance of exactly the same principle, because the Royal Opera and the Royal Ballet, between them, are Covent Garden (not literally, but certainly metaphorically).

Achieving symmetry could mean removing "The" from the Ballet, or adding "The" to this article - but not both, of course. Another ideal goal would be to have the word "London" in both articles or in neither, but not in just one of them as we have now. But that will depend on how many other Royal Operas and Royal Ballets there are out there, and whether or not the London pair are considered the primary names. It may be that that is the case for one but not the other. I don't know.

So, there are two matters for consideration, both of which would involve the good people over at The Royal Ballet being consulted. -- ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Speaking as the editor who has contributed the most to this article (in quantity, at any rate: quality is not for me to say) I'd have no objection to either alternative title for the page. Would changing it mean altering tons of hyperlinks, though? Not a task I'd volunteer for! Tim riley (talk) 14:03, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

 * I have no fixed views on whether changing both articles would be preferable, but do echo Tim Riley in being concerned about the number of red links that will pop up all over the place. Is there any easy way on Wikipedia for finding all articles which contact the title(s) as now written? Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:33, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

 * You can find out what links to the article by going to the 'toolbox' at the left of the article page and clicking on 'what links here'. There are more than 300 articles that link to the Royal Opera page at present, and more than 800, if you please, that link to the Royal Ballet one. I don't know if simple redirects would adequately deal with them. Expert advice invited. Tim riley (talk) 16:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

 * If the name really is "The Royal Opera" (as it appears to be), then I would be in favor of renaming this article The Royal Opera.  The old article name would automatically link here, and other links would NOT need to be manually changed.  The rule was changed some time ago to say that renames do not require fixing redirects unless there are double redirects or the rename causes links to be pointed to the wrong article (neither is true here).  BTW, for anyone who was involved in the burlesque / American burlesque / Victorian burlesque situation, this is a different, and much simpler situation, because there are no confusingly similar articles, and existing links will not be pointed to the wrong article - it is just a straightforward move/rename that will leave perfectly acceptable redirects.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:35, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Many thanks to Ssilvers for that. It seems perfectly doable if there is a consensus that we should do it. Over to you, Jack, to discuss with the ballet boys and girls. Meanwhile does anyone know if there is an opera forum where we can canvass the views of members of the opera project? Tim riley (talk) 17:53, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

 * How about posting your query here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera and here: Talk:Opera. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:50, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Good! Thank you for that. I've posted requests on both pages for comments to be added to this one. Tim riley (talk) 08:48, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I am in favour (for what it is worth) of renaming to 'The Royal Opera' as per arguments above. Just may need to be some header to deal with Royal Danish Opera and similar.--Smerus (talk) 11:22, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Moving this article to The Royal Opera seems very sensible. Redirects will indeed take care of existing incoming links. After the move, a hatnote should be placed there, similar to the one at Royal Opera House, along the lines:
 * -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Support move to 'The Royal Opera' per all above.4meter4 (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Support also from me. One caveat:  the programme for the last opera that I saw at the ROH (last February) inconsistently uses mostly The Royal Opera but also Royal Opera!  The bulk of the programme, comprising the cast-list, synopsis, articles, biographies, etc., plus the front cover,  is headed The Royal Opera, but the prefatory material that you see in the opening pages has sections entitled Royal Opera House, Royal Ballet, Royal Opera (bumf from Pappano and Holten plus a list of important staff and artists), Royal Opera Chorus, etc. --GuillaumeTell 18:07, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Amateurs!  People who prepare programmes should be required to train at the GT-Riley-Ssilvers School of WikiPrecision. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:54, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point. What does the ROH pay its PR people for if they so dilute the brand? Be that as it may, do we think "The Royal Opera" is the pukka title? Tim riley (talk) 18:49, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, Ssilvers, Smerus, Michael Bednarek, 4meter4 and I all seem to think so. --GuillaumeTell 20:59, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And that move has my support, too. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:46, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Mine too. Voceditenore (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

And now done, as you see. Tim riley (talk) 17:01, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

2002 to date
I'd like to suggest updating the final sentence of this section (which has a broken link as reference): "Productions announced for the 2011–12 season include a new opera by Judith Weir, and the first performances of The Trojans at Covent Garden since 1990, conducted by Pappano, and starring Bryan Hymel, Eva-Maria Westbroek and Anna Caterina Antonacci." I work at the Royal Opera House, so thought it best not to do this myself, but refer other editors to the 2012-13 season announcement on the ROH website, which could be drawn on. Thanks, OperaBalletRose (talk) 15:51, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for this. I'll put it on my list unless someone else gets there first. Tim Riley (talk) 17:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Great! Many thanks, OperaBalletRose (talk) 18:01, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha! We're in safe hands. Guillaume Tell has done the necessary. Many thanks, Monsieur T. – Tim Riley (talk) 21:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Royal English Opera
Since this is mentioned in the text, why do we need to have reference to this separate company made in the lede? IMHO its not important  almost - instinct 14:05, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed, It has no such ties, and is uncited clutter. Am deleting. Tim riley (talk) 15:00, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

MOS asks for concise writing
An editor wishes to change "magnificently restored" into: 'The Sunday Times described the reopened theatre as "magnificently equipped for its most exigent scenic demands and audience creature comforts.' In other words, the theatre was magnificently restored (of course, for the purposes of being a theatre, both in front of the curtain and behind it).  Unless anyone has a source that disputes the account of the Times, the description is non-controversial, and the writing is more concise and elegant.  An encyclopedia article is not best constructed with a series of quotes from the sources, only quotes that add something of value.  Rather, good encyclopedia writing involves describing what the best sources are saying, in concise, clear language, with the facts organized in a logical, balanced way.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't *want* to change it to that, I was just trying to find a compromise. I think having the phrase "magnificently restored" in the sentence jars with the neutral point of view policy, but clearly others disagree and I have no desire to get involved in any unpleasant disagreements, so I shall leave you to it. Angmering (talk) 18:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Broadcasts
An editor added this:

 * Radio and Television Broadcasts
 * The BBC has regularly broadcast performances from the Royal Opera since its establishment in 1946. The earliest complete broadcast was Britten's Peter Grimes in December 1947, and until the mid-1950s, some operas was only broadcast in part. Unlike the Met broadcasts in the USA, the BBC never had a regular broadcast schedule of Royal Opera performances, and sometimes only broadcast three or four in a year and rarely more than ten. Broadcasts were usually on the Third Programme (Radio 3 after 1967) but some were heard on the Home Service (Radio 4 after 1967). The BBC began FM broadcasts in May 1955, and the first Royal Opera FM broadcast was Tosca on June 30, 1955. Stereo broadcasts started in 1966 and the first Royal Opera stereo broadcast was Der Rosenkavalier, performed on April 26 but broadcast on October 29. The first television broadcast was of La Traviata on April 24, 1967 and in black and white. The first colour broadcast was of Aida on February 5, 1968.
 * The broadcast archive of the Royal Opera is far from complete. Audio broadcasts were not systematically kept by the BBC until the 1980s and therefore many performances from the 1940s and 1950s no longer exist in audio form.(ref:) The largest archival holdings of Royal Opera performances are the Royal Opera themselves, the BBC, the National Sound Archive of the British Library and the Music Preserved Archive at the University of York. Some recordings have been released by the Royal Opera's own label, and by historical specialists such as Pristine Audio and Testament. More recent video recordings are widely available on DVD.

The lack of citations makes this unsuitable for a featured article (or any article, indeed) but it is interesting and if citations to reliable sources can be found I think it would be a useful addition. Can anyone find such sources?  Tim riley  talk    14:48, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Main page image
It's a pity that the pic illustrating Today's Featured Article on the Main Page crops off some of the pediment of the Royal Opera House. May I suggest replacing it with one of the following images? My preference would be for the one on the far left. Ham II (talk) 07:59, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I would have chosen an interior, saying more about the character of a theatre, and am surprised the article has not a single one, such as File:MFroyaloperahouse1.jpg --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I second that suggestion, though the opinions of contributors to the article (which I am not) should carry more weight than mine. Ham II (talk) 08:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 05:18, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:The Royal Opera


text:
Cedar Lake (Nipissing District)

Cedar Lake is a lake in the geographic townships of Boyd, Deacon and Lister in the Unorganized south part of Nipissing District in northeastern Ontario, Canada. The lake is in the Saint Lawrence River drainage basin and is entirely within Algonquin Provincial Park; it is a popular entry point for canoe trips into the interior of the park as the community of Brent, located on the lake, is connected by Brent Road to Ontario Highway 17. Other places on the lake are Acanthus and Government Park.

The primary inflows to Cedar Lake are the Nipissing River and Petawawa River, both arriving at the west, and the primary outflow is the Petawawa River at the east, controlled by a weir, which flows to the Ottawa River.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cedar Lake (Nipissing District)


text:
User:Himself!/monobook.css

.usermessage {display:none}

title: User:Himself!/monobook.css


text: User:Himself!

title: User:Himself!


text:
User talk:Himself!

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.

 * This user is a bot. He edits quickly. -- Stevey7788 21:19, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Don't impersonate other users
Please sign your posts using. Do not impersonate RickK or anyone else. Please do not spam pages with links to your cats site. Also, I slightly modified your user page; your edits were obscuring the normal Wikipedia navigation. Feel free to play around with it, but try to be sure that Wikipedia navigation is unaffected. Thanks! — Knowledge Seeker দ 17:43, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Himself!


text:
Frauenfeld

Frauenfeld (Alemannic: Frauefäld) is the capital of the canton of Thurgau in Switzerland.

The official language of Frauenfeld is (the Swiss variety of Standard) German, but the main spoken language is the local variant of the Alemannic Swiss German dialect.

Early history
The earliest traces of human settlement are several La Tène era graves to the east of Langdorf. The Roman road from Oberwinterthur (Vitudurum) to Pfyn ran through what is now the Allmend in Frauenfeld. Two Roman villas were discovered in Thalbach and Oberkirch. The villa seems to have become the focal point of the later settlement of Oberkirch. On the ruins of the villa, an Early Middle Ages cemetery was built, and by the 9th century, the Oberkirch church was built. Perhaps as a result of royal donation in the 9th century, or more likely a donation in the 13th century, the area around Frauenfeld belonged to the Dinghof (a church- or monastery-owned manor farm) of Erching. Erching had a manor house, twelve houses, at least one mill, and probably also a church in Oberkirch. In the 13th century, Erching formed a self-contained manor farm complex and was occupied by a Habsburg Vogt after 1270. Starting in the late 12th century, a village grew up in the area around Erching and another grew up around the church at Oberkirch.

By the end of the 1220s, a fortified tower with a mill and chapel was built and a third village began to grow up around the castle. This village, which would become Frauenfeld, grew gradually on land owned by Reichenau Abbey. The original fortified tower grew into Frauenfeld Castle.

Foundation of Frauenfeld
Frauenfeld is first mentioned in 1246 as Vrowinvelt though it had been growing slowly during the second third of the 13th century. The village was inhabited by the knightly family of Hörigen (who were allied with Reichnau) and several other knightly families who were allied with the Habsburg and Kyburg families. In 1246 a knight with the last name/title zum Kyburger Umfeld is first mentioned in Frauenfeld. In the next three decades, several knights who came from the Kyburg lands, adopted the von Frauenfeld name. It is unclear whether the inhabitants of Frauenfeld Castle were simply the aristocratic owners of houses in Frauenfeld or the administrator of the bailiwick of Frauenfeld.

In 1286 Frauenfeld is first mentioned as a city. At least by that date, it had been integrated into the Habsburg territories. The tower was for a long time in the hands of the Knights of Frauenfeld-Wiesendangen. The political, social and economic background of becoming a city before 1286 are not clear: the relations of the early governors of Frauenfeld to the Kyburgs and Habsburgs are not clear. The Kyburgs did not hold sovereign rights in Frauenfled. It is therefore uncertain whether the city was founded by the Kyburgs really with the tacit approval of Reichenau, as was earlier believed. It is also conceivable that the castle and maybe a smaller surrounding village was built by a third party, perhaps a Toggenburg, of Murkart or Hagenbuch noble. If that was the case, as they lost influence in the 1220s in the lower Murgtal, the Kyburgs and later the Habsburgs expanded into the region and gained control of Reichenau's rights and castle.

The city was integrated into the Habsburg Amt of Kyburg. In 1374, the Habsburgs bestowed the right of judgment for all of Thurgau (which then included St. Gallen) on the Duke of Frauenfeld. In the 14th century the castle became the administrative center of the Habsburg Amt of Frauenfeld. As the Habsburgs sought to consolidate their position in the Thurgau, they granted the castle to one of the most important families of the Habsburg gentry, the Landsbergers. They held the position until 1534. Between 1415 and 1442 the city was under the auspices of an imperial provincial governor. After 1442 it temporarily fell back under Austrian control, then in 1460, the Thurgau (including Frauenfeld) was captured by the Swiss Confederation.

Part of the Swiss Confederation
Frauenfeld had been a political center under the Austrian Habsburgs. Under the Confederation, it grew into the center from which the Confederates managed the entire Thurgau. Between 1500/15 and again in 1712, Frauenfeld was the site of the Tagsatzung assembly. After 1499 it was also the home of a Confederation court. After 1504 the city was the residence of Thurgau governor, and after 1532 he lived in the castle. Other locations were directly subordinate.

As the city grew in importance, the houses around the castle grew into a weakly fortified city. The city was separated by a wall and moat from the castle. The wooden houses were clustered around the two longitudinal and three cross streets, but a town square or other large, open space was missing. The castle and Niedertor (city gate) and the Strasshof dominated the southwest corner while the church and Oberturm (upper tower) were in the northwestern corner. The so-called Gachnanger Stock was in the northeast and the Spiegelhof with Holdertor (city gate) were in the southeast corner. In the 15th century the city was slowly fortified, but even in 1460 the outer rows of houses were not protected by city walls. In the 16th century most of the houses in the city were built from stone. The two city fires of 1771 and 1788 destroyed nearly all the houses, so that the current face of the old city dates from the end of the 18th century.

The Protestant Reformation affected the city. Although in 1531 only about 70 Catholics lived in the city, the Catholic Cantons helped administer Frauenfeld and the rest of the Thurgau. Catholic membership in the town council never fell below 33% and the two denominations alternated appointing mayors. For church affairs ever existed a Protestant and a Catholic Grand and Lesser Councils, which supervised the two schools in the city. The City Church and the Church in Oberkirch were initially shared churches. The Protestant pastor was appointed by the city's own Protestants after 1537. However, it wasn't until 1645 that the Protestants had their own church.

The castle of Frauenfeld is an example of late baroque and classical architecture. The Rathaus dates from Frauenfeld's second period of prominence in the 18th century. Starting in 1712, the gathering of Swiss Eidgenossen took place alternately in Frauenfeld and Baden. In 1742, this gathering took Frauenfeld as its regular meetingplace.

The fall of the old Old Swiss Confederacy in 1798 as a result of the French invasion brought an end to the gatherings in Frauenfeld.

End of the Ancien Régime
Following the French invasion of the Confederation, Thurgau was created as a full canton in the Helvetic Republic. The new constitution of 1798 established Frauenfeld as the capital of the new canton. However, the choice of Frauenfeld was controversial. Both the cities of Winterthur and Constance were considered, but the main alternative to Frauenfeld was Weinfelden. While Frauenfeld was near the border with Zürich, Weinfelden is located in the geographic center of the canton. Frauenfeld was the capital when Thurgau was under Confederation control, while Weinfelden was a leader in the Thurgau Freedom movement. While Frauenfeld eventually remained the capital, since 1832 the cantonal parliament has met semi-annually in Frauenfeld and Weinfelden.

On 25 May 1799, Frauenfeld became a battlefield when French and Austrian forces met there. While the Austrians were victorious, the city was recaptured by the French later in the year.

In 1800 the ability to move into the city was granted to anyone, and in 1807 the right to become a citizen was also opened to everyone. Between 1808 and 1834 the city walls were demolished. In 1807, the casino company was founded and in 1808 the businessman's society opened. In 1810, the Constable's association was re-established after it closed in 1798. In 1798 the Wochenblatt für den Kanton Thurgau (Weekly Journal for the canton of Thurgau) opened. In 1809 it changed its name to Thurgauer Zeitung, a paper that is still being published. Between 1813 and 1816, Bernhard Greuter, who had established a branch factory of the Islikoner Textilfärberei (Islikon textile dyeing factory) in Frauenfeld in 1805, had the moat filled in and created the promenade - a symbol of the establishment of a bourgeois public place in town.

In 1919, the municipalities of Langdorf, Kurzdorf, Huben, Herten, and Horgenbach became part of Frauenfeld. In 1998, Gerlikon, Schönenhof, and Zelgli were incorporated.

Geography
Frauenfeld has an area,, of 27.37 km2. Of this area, 12.43 km2 or 45.4% is used for agricultural purposes, while 6.77 km2 or 24.7% is forested. Of the rest of the land, 7.62 km2 or 27.8% is settled (buildings or roads), 0.28 km2 or 1.0% is either rivers or lakes and 0.28 km2 or 1.0% is unproductive land.

Of the built-up area, industrial buildings made up 13.3% of the total area while housing and buildings made up 3.5% and transportation infrastructure made up 0.8%. Power and water infrastructure as well as other special developed areas made up 2.3% of the area while parks, green belts and sports fields made up 7.9%. Out of the forested land, 22.6% of the total land area is heavily forested and 2.1% is covered with orchards or small clusters of trees. Of the agricultural land, 43.0% is used for growing crops, while 2.4% is used for orchards or vine crops. All the water in the municipality is flowing water.

The municipality is the cantonal and district capital. It is located along both banks of the Murg river. It consists of the town of Frauenfeld (made up of the old city, Ergaten-Vorstadt to the west and Obere Vorstadt to the east) and the former communities of Langdorf, Kurzdorf, Huben, Herten, Horgenbach, Gerlikon, Zelgli and Schönenhof.

Demographics
Frauenfeld has a population of. , 22.3% of the population are foreign nationals. Over the last ten years (1997–2007) the population has changed at a rate of 10.8%. Most of the population speaks German (83.3%), with Italian being second most common (4.7%) and Portuguese being third (3.7%).

, the gender distribution of the population was 48.4% male and 51.6% female. The population was made up of 8,263 Swiss men (36.5% of the population), and 2,708 (11.9%) non-Swiss men. There were 9,338 Swiss women (41.2%), and 2,356 (10.4%) non-Swiss women.

In there were 143 live births to Swiss citizens and 59 births to non-Swiss citizens, and in same time span there were 200 deaths of Swiss citizens and 9 non-Swiss citizen deaths. Ignoring immigration and emigration, the population of Swiss citizens decreased by 57 while the foreign population increased by 50. There were 14 Swiss men who emigrated from Switzerland to another country, 25 Swiss women who emigrated from Switzerland to another country, 101 non-Swiss men who emigrated from Switzerland to another country and 105 non-Swiss women who emigrated from Switzerland to another country. The total Swiss population change in 2008 (from all sources) was an increase of 46 and the non-Swiss population change was an increase of 169 people. This represents a population growth rate of 1.0%.

The age distribution,, in Frauenfeld is; 2,135 children or 9.3% of the population are between 0 and 9 years old and 2,488 teenagers or 10.9% are between 10 and 19. Of the adult population, 3,465 people or 15.1% of the population are between 20 and 29 years old. 3,048 people or 13.3% are between 30 and 39, 3,631 people or 15.9% are between 40 and 49, and 3,140 people or 13.7% are between 50 and 59. The senior population distribution is 2,360 people or 10.3% of the population are between 60 and 69 years old, 1,541 people or 6.7% are between 70 and 79, there are 899 people or 3.9% who are between 80 and 89, and there are 171 people or 0.7% who are 90 and older.

, there were 9,569 private households in the municipality, and an average of 2.2 persons per household. there were 2,272 single family homes (or 68.7% of the total) out of a total of 3,305 inhabited buildings. There were 263 two family buildings (8.0%), 132 three family buildings (4.0%) and 638 multi-family buildings (or 19.3%). There were 5,189 (or 23.6%) persons who were part of a couple without children, and 10,577 (or 48.2%) who were part of a couple with children. There were 1,346 (or 6.1%) people who lived in single parent home, while there are 126 persons who were adult children living with one or both parents, 101 persons who lived in a household made up of relatives, 239 who lived in a household made up of unrelated persons, and 772 who are either institutionalized or live in another type of collective housing.

The vacancy rate for the municipality,, was 1.15%. , the construction rate of new housing units was 3.6 new units per 1000 residents. there were 10,470 apartments in the municipality. The most common apartment size was the 4 room apartment of which there were 3,198. There were 537 single room apartments and 1,091 apartments with six or more rooms. the average price to rent an average apartment in Frauenfeld was 1087.26 Swiss francs (CHF) per month (US$870, £490, €700 approx. exchange rate from 2000). The average rate for a one-room apartment was 508.43 CHF (US$410, £230, €330), a two-room apartment was about 761.63 CHF (US$610, £340, €490), a three-room apartment was about 960.43 CHF (US$770, £430, €610) and a six or more room apartment cost an average of 1936.19 CHF (US$1550, £870, €1240). The average apartment price in Frauenfeld was 97.4% of the national average of 1116 CHF.

In the 2007 federal election the most popular party was the SVP which received 34.4% of the vote. The next three most popular parties were the SP (15.55%), the CVP (15.03%) and the FDP (13.5%). In the federal election, a total of 7,105 votes were cast, and the voter turnout was 48.5%.

Historical population
The historical population is given in the following table:

Heritage sites of national significance
There are ten buildings that are listed as Swiss heritage site of national significance in Frauenfeld. There are four archives and a library on the list; archive of the Amtes für Denkmalpflege, the archive of the Department of Archeology, the Citizen's Archive of Frauenfeld, the State Archives of the Canton and Cantonal Library. The Catholic City Church and the Simultaneum Church of St Laurenzen with St Anna Chapel and Messmerhaus are the two religious buildings on the list. Two museums, the Museum of Archeology and Natural History of the Canton of Thurgau and Frauenfeld Castle which contains the Historical Museum, are on the list. The last building on the list is the Rathaus or town council house. The entire old city of Frauenfeld is included in the Inventory of Swiss Heritage Sites.

Economy
In 2007, Frauenfeld had an unemployment rate of 2.01%. , there were 211 people employed in the primary economic sector and about 70 businesses involved in this sector. 4,120 people are employed in the secondary sector and there are 228 businesses in this sector. 11,759 people are employed in the tertiary sector, with 1,095 businesses in this sector.

there were 15,112 workers who lived in the municipality. Of these, 4,752 or about 31.4% of the residents worked outside Frauenfeld while 8,298 people commuted into the municipality for work. There were a total of 18,658 jobs (of at least 6 hours per week) in the municipality. Of the working population, 16.4% used public transportation to get to work, and 42.7% used a private car.

Industry and business
The headquarters of Sigg are located in Frauenfeld.

Religion
From the, 8,239 or 37.5% were Roman Catholic, while 9,255 or 42.2% belonged to the Swiss Reformed Church. Of the rest of the population, there were 18 Old Catholics (or about 0.08% of the population) who belonged to the Christian Catholic Church of Switzerland, there are 337 individuals (or about 1.54% of the population) who belong to the Orthodox Church, and there are 486 individuals (or about 2.21% of the population) who belong to another Christian church. There were 18 individuals (or about 0.08% of the population) who were Jewish, and 1,043 (or about 4.75% of the population) who are Islamic. There are 160 individuals (or about 0.73% of the population) who belong to a church not listed on the census. There were 1,585 (or about 7.22% of the population) who belong to no church, are agnostic or atheist, and 813 individuals (or about 3.70% of the population) who did not answer the question.

Weather
Frauenfeld has an average of 133 days of rain or snow per year and on average receives 1072 mm of precipitation. The wettest month is June during which time Frauenfeld receives an average of 127 mm of rain or snow. During this month there is precipitation for an average of 12.5 days. The month with the most days of precipitation is May, with an average of 13, but with only 107 mm of rain or snow. The driest month of the year is March with an average of 68 mm of precipitation over 12.5 days.

Education
In Frauenfeld about 68.8% of the population (between age 25–64) have completed either non-mandatory upper secondary education or additional higher education (either university or a Fachhochschule). Frauenfeld is home to the Kantonsbibliothek Thurgau library. The library has 276,628 books or other media, and loaned out 163,766 items in the same year. It was open a total of 256 days with average of 47 hours per week during that year.

Transportation
Frauenfeld is a central location in western Thurgau and is served by a railway station and two exits on the A7 motorway.

It has a town bus service with 5 bus lines which run every 15 minutes to every corner of the town. Frauenfeld railway station supports a regional train, part of the Zürich S-Bahn, from Weinfelden to Winterthur (S8 and S30) every 30 minutes, as well in the opposite direction and a fast train (InterCity and InterRegio) that travels to Zürich every 30 minutes, as well in the opposite direction to Weinfelden and further to Constance in Germany or Romanshorn. During busy times in the mornings and evenings these trains are supported by another train (called "S") which stops in the bigger towns (like IR/IC).

Frauenfeld is also the northern terminus of the narrow-gauge Frauenfeld–Wil line; trains operate from the Bahnhofplatz in front of the main railway station. Trains operate over this line to Wil every half hour. There are plans to increase the frequency to every fifteen minutes. Services on this line, designated as S15 of the St. Gallen S-Bahn, also stop at Frauenfeld Marktplatz and Lüdem.

Twin towns
Frauenfeld is twinned with the town of

Notable people

 * Petrus Dasypodius (ca.1495–1559), author and humanist, teacher and pastor in Zürich
 * Conrad Dasypodius (1532–1600), writer and professor of mathematics in Strasbourg, Alsace
 * Pierre-Gustave Joly de Lotbinière (1798–1865), a French businessman and amateur daguerreotypist
 * Johann Kaspar Mörikofer (1799–1877), a literary and ecclesiastical historian
 * Julius Maggi (1846–1912), an entrepreneur, inventor of precooked soups and Maggi sauce
 * Otto Stoll (1849–1922), a linguist and ethnologist, researched Mayan languages
 * Alfred Ilg (1854–1916), an engineer and confidant to Ethiopian Emperor Menelik II
 * Heinrich Häberlin (1868–1947), a politician, judge and member of the Swiss Federal Council 1920–1934
 * Walter Rudolf Hess (1881–1973), a physiologist who won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1949 for mapping the areas of the brain involved in the control of internal organs
 * René Hubert (1895–1976), a costume designer, nominated for two Academy Awards
 * Konrad Osterwalder (born 1942), a mathematician and physicist, held UN posts, known for the Osterwalder–Schrader theorem
 * Ulrich Gasser (born 1950), a flautist and composer
 * Hansjörg Walter (born 1951), a politician, member of the Swiss National Council 1999–2017
 * Lieutenant-General Roland Nef (born 1959), the Chief of the Swiss Armed Forces in 2008
 * Alfred Kramer (born 1965), a Swiss/Italian jazz drummer
 * Hilaria Kramer (born 1967), a modern jazz musician (trumpet, song and composition)

Sport

 * Walter Reiser (born 1923), a cyclist, competed in the 1948 Summer Olympics
 * Rolf Bernhard (born 1949), a retired long jumper, competed in the 1972, 1976 and 1980 Summer Olympics
 * Pascal Zuberbühler (born 1971), a former football goalkeeper, currently goalkeeper coach for Derby County F.C.
 * Patrick Heuscher (born 1976), a beach volleyball player, bronze medallist at the 2004 Summer Olympics also competed in the 2008 and 2012 Summer Olympics
 * Reto Hollenstein (born 1985), a racing cyclist, rode in the 2014 Tour de France
 * Fabian Frei (born 1989), a footballer, over 300 club caps and 14 for Switzerland
 * Alessandro Hämmerle (born 1993), a Swiss-born Austrian snowboarder, competed at the 2014 Winter Olympics
 * Antonio Djakovic (born 2002), a swimmer, competed at the 2020 Summer Olympics

title: Frauenfeld


text: User talk:61.10.7.37

title: User talk:61.10.7.37


text:
Red Cedar Lake

Red Cedar Lake may refer to:

 * Red Cedar Lake (Connecticut), United States
 * Red Cedar Lake (Ontario), Canada
 * Red Cedar Lake (Wisconsin), United States

title: Red Cedar Lake


text:
Vesta (software configuration management)

Vesta is a software configuration management system developed in the 1990s.

History
Vesta was developed by researchers at the Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) Systems Research Center in Palo Alto, California. The language for Vesta was first published in 1993. Vesta's approach to incremental software building was to give the user a language to describe how to build the software, and let the builder infer dependencies, unlike other systems where the user specifies the dependencies explicitly. A redesign and reimplementation called Vesta-2 was begun around 1998. Vesta was released by Compaq after it acquired DEC, under the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) in 2001.

Vesta features include:

 * A guarantee of precise build repeatability. Vesta builds are encapsulated in an environment cut off from the normal filesystem.  They cannot use any files, settings, or other inputs that aren't under revision control.
 * Completely automatic dependency detection. The Vesta builder records file accesses made during builds, rather than having the user explicitly specify as with the earlier Make tool.
 * A shared build cache. When multiple developers are using the system, they share the same pool of previously completed build work for re-use in future incremental builds.  This saves time and resources across development teams.

Vesta is used by Intel for microprocessor development projects. They employ developers who actively work on the maintenance and development of Vesta.

Drawbacks include:
 * Mandatory locking at the package level.
 * Users connect to a special NFS server to access the repository.
 * No mention of build support for Java, Python, etc.
 * No mention of Mac/Windows support.

A short book about Vesta was published several times through 2011.


text:
Guy McKenna

Guy Lindsay McKenna (born 11 May 1969) is a retired Australian rules football player and the former senior coach of the Gold Coast Football Club in the Australian Football League (AFL). McKenna played 267 games for the West Coast Eagles, including the 1992 and 1994 premiership wins. He captained the club between 1999 and 2000 AFL season.

WAFL career
Educated at Carine Senior High School and originally from Carine Junior Football Club, McKenna was zoned to in the West Australian Football League (WAFL), where he played 49 games in four seasons from 1985 to 1987 and in 1992, including the Tigers' 1987 premiership.

West Coast Eagles
McKenna was recruited by the West Coast Eagles for the 1988 season with a pre-draft selection. He played for the Eagles from 1988 until 2000, notching up 267 games and booting 28 goals. He formed one of the most feared backlines in the AFL, along with John Worsfold, Ashley McIntosh, Glen Jakovich and Michael Brennan and was known for his cool demeanour and reliability. McKenna was also part of the club's 1992 and 1994 premiership sides.

He won the Club Champion Award twice, once in 1989 and the other in 1999, finishing in the top three another five times.

He was captain from 1998 until his retirement at the end of 2000. He kicked a memorable goal on the final kick of his career in Round 22 2000 which frenzied the crowd at Subiaco Oval.

McKenna boasts two unusual on-field distinctions from his career: In Round 20, 1994, he was the first player ever ordered from the ground under the blood rule, which had been introduced to the league that week. Then, in a match against in Round 22, 1999, for the first time since Essendon's Jack Clarke in 1958, McKenna became the third captain in league history to call for a headcount; however, the teams were even.

Early career
After retiring, he coached in the West Australian Football League as senior coach of the Claremont Football Club with considerable success before moving to an assistant coaching role with the West Coast Eagles.

Collingwood Football Club assistant coach (2003–2008)
McKenna joined Collingwood Football Club at the end of 2003 as an assistant coach under senior coach Michael Malthouse his former mentor. McKenna left the Collingwood Football Club at the end of the 2008 season.

Gold Coast Suns senior coach (2011–2014)
In 2008, McKenna was appointed the inaugural senior coach of the newly founded Gold Coast Suns Football Club. He oversaw their TAC Cup and VFL campaigns prior to their entrance in the AFL. In the 2011 season, the Gold Coast Suns under McKenna in its inaugural season in the AFL league, finished in last place on the ladder with three wins and nineteen losses for the wooden spoon. In the 2012 season, the Gold Coast suns under McKenna finished in seventeenth position (second-last) on the ladder, yet again with three wins and nineteen losses. In the 2013 season, the Gold Coast Suns under McKenna improved on-field performance when they finished fourteenth on the ladder with eight wins and fourteen losses. In the 2014 season, Gold Coast Suns under McKenna finished in twelve place on the ladder with ten wins and twelve losses. But however after the Suns failed to make the finals in their first four years in the AFL senior competition league, McKenna was sacked as senior coach of the Gold Coast Suns on 1 October 2014, at the end of the 2014 season. McKenna was then replaced by Rodney Eade as Gold Coast Suns Football Club senior coach.

McKenna coached Gold Coast Suns Football Club to a total of 88 games with 24 wins and 64 losses to a winning percentage of 27 percent.

Essendon Football Club assistant coach (2015–2017)
On 9 November 2015, McKenna was appointed as an assistant coach in the position of line coach at under senior coach John Worsfold, who he previously played with as a former teammate at West Coast Eagles. McKenna left the Essendon Football Club at the end of the 2017 season.

Playing statistics

! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1988 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1989 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1990 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1991 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1993 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1995 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1996 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1997 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1998 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 1999 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center" | 2000 ! colspan=3| Career ! 267 ! 28 ! 25 ! 2398 ! 2149 ! 4547 ! 1109 ! 523 ! 0.1 ! 0.1 ! 9.0 ! 8.0 ! 17.0 ! 4.2 ! 2.0
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 18 || 0 || 3 || 169 || 156 || 325 || 73 || 17 || 0.0 || 0.2 || 9.4 || 8.7 || 18.1 || 4.1 || 0.9
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 20 || 1 || 1 || 184 || 184 || 368 || 113 || 26 || 0.1 || 0.1 || 9.2 || 9.2 || 18.4 || 5.7 || 1.3
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 26 || 4 || 3 || 252 || 210 || 462 || 97 || 52 || 0.2 || 0.1 || 9.7 || 8.1 || 17.8 || 3.7 || 2.0
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 26 || 2 || 6 || 259 || 210 || 469 || 80 || 41 || 0.1 || 0.2 || 10.0 || 8.1 || 18.0 || 3.1 || 1.6
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;background:#afe6ba;"|1992†
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 12 || 2 || 2 || 91 || 95 || 186 || 37 || 22 || 0.2 || 0.2 || 7.6 || 7.9 || 15.5 || 3.1 || 1.8
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 21 || 1 || 1 || 199 || 165 || 364 || 92 || 39 || 0.0 || 0.0 || 9.5 || 7.9 || 17.3 || 4.4 || 1.9
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;background:#afe6ba;"|1994†
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 25 || 5 || 4 || 227 || 202 || 429 || 103 || 49 || 0.2 || 0.2 || 9.1 || 8.1 || 17.2 || 4.1 || 2.0
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 23 || 5 || 2 || 155 || 208 || 363 || 81 || 44 || 0.2 || 0.1 || 6.7 || 9.0 || 15.8 || 3.5 || 1.9
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 22 || 5 || 0 || 204 || 175 || 379 || 118 || 58 || 0.2 || 0.0 || 9.3 || 8.0 || 17.2 || 5.4 || 2.6
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 20 || 1 || 0 || 177 || 145 || 322 || 89 || 58 || 0.1 || 0.0 || 8.9 || 7.3 || 16.1 || 4.5 || 2.9
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 22 || 1 || 1 || 209 || 161 || 370 || 82 || 64 || 0.0 || 0.0 || 9.5 || 7.3 || 16.8 || 3.7 || 2.9
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 23 || 0 || 1 || 216 || 175 || 391 || 113 || 41 || 0.0 || 0.0 || 9.4 || 7.6 || 17.0 || 4.9 || 1.8
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 17 || 9 || 1 || 1 || 56 || 63 || 119 || 31 || 12 || 0.1 || 0.1 || 6.2 || 7.0 || 13.2 || 3.4 || 1.3
 * - class="sortbottom"
 * }

Coaching statistics

! scope="row" style="text-align:center; font-weight:normal" | 2011 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center; font-weight:normal" | 2012 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center; font-weight:normal" | 2013 ! scope="row" style="text-align:center; font-weight:normal" | 2014 ! colspan=2| Career totals ! 88 ! 24 ! 64 ! 0 ! 27.3% ! colspan="2"|
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 22 || 3 || 19 || 0 || 13.6% || 17 || 17
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 22 || 3 || 19 || 0 || 13.6% || 17 || 18
 * - style="background-color: #EAEAEA"
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 22 || 8 || 14 || 0 || 36.4% || 14 || 18
 * style="text-align:center;"|
 * 22 || 10 || 12 || 0 || 45.5% || 12 || 18
 * - class="sortbottom"
 * }

title: Guy McKenna


text:
Beer in Wales

Beer in Wales can be traced to the 6th century. Since the 2000s, there has been a growing microbrewery industry in Wales.

History
At least as early as the 6th century, the Druidic legendary person Ceridwen is associated with cauldrons and intoxicating preparations of grain in herbs in many poems of Taliesin, particularly the Hanes Taliesin. This preparation, Gwîn a Bragawd, is said to have brought "science, inspiration and immortality".

The Welsh Triads attribute the introduction of brewing grains barley and wheat to Coll, and name Llonion in Pembrokeshire as the source of the best barley, while Maes Gwenith in Gwent produces superior wheat and bees.

The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for 852 records a distinction between "fine ale" and Welsh ale, also called bragawd. Bragawd, also called braggot, is somewhat between mead and what we today think of as ale. Saxon-period Welsh ale was a heady, strong beverage, made with spices such as cinnamon, ginger and clove as well as herbs and honey. Bragawd was often prepared in monasteries, with Tintern Abbey and the Friary of Carmarthen producing the beverage until Henry VIII dissolved the monasteries in 1536.

In the Laws of Hywel Dda, meanwhile, a distinction is drawn between bragawd and cwrwf, with bragawd being worth twice as much. Bragawd in this context is a fermented drink based on cwrwf to which honey, sweet wort, and ginger have been added.

Welsh beer is noted as a distinct style as late as 1854, with a recipe made solely from pale malt and hops described in a recipe book of the time.

Wales, along with the rest of Britain, came under the influence of the temperance movement, along with a burgeoning Welsh moral code based on Presbyterian and other Non-conformist beliefs in relation to alcohol. This rested against a background of places where there has historically been a lot of heavy industry such as coal mining in south Wales and the north east. This has given some people the impression that all Welsh beers have been very weak. However, as with beers all over Britain, alcohol percentages vary.

Wrexham was one of the first places in the UK to brew lager. Homesick German immigrant brothers from Saxony started the process in 1882. Its demise came in 2000, when the site of Wrexham Lager was sold and subsequently demolished.

Investment by the Welsh Development Agency has helped establish a large number of breweries in Wales in recent years.

In the 1930s, Felinfoel Brewery was the first brewery in the UK to produce and sell beer in cans.

The largest brewer and packager of beer in Wales by far is the Budweiser Brewing Group (BBG) Brewery in Magor. The brewery was built in 1979 by the Whitbread brewing group and is now operated by the Budweiser Brewing Group, part of AB-InBev the world's largest brewer. The brewery is one of the largest in the UK producing over 5 Million hectare litres every year.

In 2012, CAMRA predicted that the number of microbreweries in Wales is set to carry on rising as the pub industry deals with continued closures.

Tiny Rebel brewery won CAMRA's 2015 Supreme Champion Beer of Britain for its Cwtch Welsh Red Ale.

List of notable Welsh breweries

 * Axiom Brewing, Wrexham
 * Artisan Brewery, Cardiff
 * Black Mountain, Llangadog, Carmarthenshire
 * Big Hand Brewing, Wrexham
 * Border Breweries, Wrexham
 * Brains Brewery, Cardiff
 * Brecon Brewing, Brecon, Powys
 * Bryncelyn Brewery, Ystalyfera, Neath Port Talbot
 * Bullmastiff Brewery, Leckwith, Cardiff
 * Buzzard Brewery, Ruthin, Denbighshire
 * Carter's Brewery, Machen, Caerphilly
 * Celtic Experience, Caerphilly
 * Bragdy Ceredigion Brewery, New Quay, Ceredigion
 * Coles Family Brewery, Llandarog
 * Conwy Brewery Ltd, Conwy
 * Cwmbran Brewery, Upper Cwmbran
 * Dare Brewery Ltd, Godreaman, Aberdare (Brewpub)
 * Erddig Brewery, Wrexham
 * Wm Evan Evans Brewery, Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire
 * Facer's Flintshire Brewery, Flint, Flintshire
 * Felinfoel Brewery Company, Ltd., Felinfoel, Llanelli (oldest regional brewery in Wales)
 * Ffos y Ffin Brewery, Capel Dewi, Carmarthen
 * The Flock Inn Brewery, Brechfa, Carmarthen
 * Bragdy'r Gogarth, Colwyn Bay
 * Hafod Brewing Company, Mold
 * Heavy Industry, Henllan, Denbighshire
 * Hopcraft Brewing Company, Pontyclun
 * Bragdy Gwynant, Capel Bangor, Aberystwyth
 * The Jacobi Brewery of Caio, Penlanwen, Pumsaint, Llanwrda
 * Jolly Brewer, Wrexham
 * Kingstone Brewery, Tintern, Monmouthshire
 * Llangollen Brewery, Llangollen
 * Lord Raglan brewery, Merthyr Tydfil
 * McGiverns Ales, Wrexham
 * Monty's Brewery Ltd, Montgomery, Powys
 * Nags Head Brewery, Abercwch, Boncath
 * Bragdy Nant, Llanrwst
 * Neuadd Brewing Company, Llanwrtyd Wells, Powys
 * Newman's Brewery / The Celt Experience, Caerphilly
 * North Wales Brewery / Bragdy Gogledd Cymru, Abergele, Conwy County Borough
 * Otley Brewing Company Limited, Pontypridd
 * Penlon Cottage Brewery, Penlon, Pencae, Llanarth
 * Plassey Brewery, Eyton, Wrexham, Wrexham
 * Bragdy Mŵs Piws Cyf / Purple Moose Brewery Ltd, Porthmadog
 * Pixie Spring Brewing Company, Pontyclun
 * Rhymney Brewery Ltd, Dowlais, Merthyr Tydfil
 * SA Brain & Company Ltd, Cardiff (regional brewery)
 * Sandstone Brewery, Wrexham
 * Seren Brewing Company, Rosebush, Pembrokeshire
 * Snowdonia Brewery, Waunfawr, Caernarfon
 * Swansea Brewing Company, Bishopston, Swansea
 * Tomos Watkin Ltd (Hurns Brewing Co.), Morriston, Swansea (regional brewery)
 * Tiny Rebel Brewing Company, Newport
 * Bragdy Twt Lol ~ The Trefforest Brewery, Trefforest, Pontypridd
 * Tudor Brewery, Abergavenny
 * Vale Of Glamorgan Brewery, Limited, Barry
 * Waen Brewery, Penstrowed, Caersws, Powys
 * Warcop Brewery, Wentloog, Newport
 * Wrexham Lager, Wrexham
 * Zero Degrees Brewpub, Cardiff

title: Beer in Wales


text:
Girgaon

Girgaon, or Girgaum, is an area in southern Mumbai in Maharashtra, India. It is near the coast. A section of Marine Drive is located here.

title: Girgaon


text:
The Killers (1964 film)

The Killers (released in the UK as Ernest Hemingway's "The Killers") is a 1964 American neo noir crime film. Written by Gene L. Coon and directed by Don Siegel, it is the second Hollywood adaptation of Ernest Hemingway's 1927 short story of the same name, following the 1946 version.

The film stars Lee Marvin, John Cassavetes, Angie Dickinson, and Ronald Reagan in his final film role before retiring from acting in 1966 in order to enter politics.

At the time of release, Marvin said that it was his favorite film. The supporting cast features Clu Gulager, Claude Akins, and Norman Fell. In July 2018, it was selected to be screened in the Venice Classics section at the 75th Venice International Film Festival.

Plot
Hitmen Charlie and Lee enter a school for the blind and shoot the unresistant Johnny North multiple times, killing him. Charlie is bothered that North refused to flee and notes they were paid an unusually high fee. He and Lee run through what they know about Johnny. He was once a champion race car driver whose career ended in a violent crash. Four years before his death, he was involved in a million-dollar robbery of a mail truck. Tempted by the missing money, Charlie and Lee visit Miami to interview Johnny's former mechanic, Earl Sylvester.

Earl tells them (in a flashback) Johnny was at the top of his profession when he met Sheila Farr. Johnny fell in love and planned to propose marriage. However, Johnny's career ended with a fiery crash. At the hospital, Earl revealed to Johnny that Sheila was the mistress of mob boss Jack Browning. Enraged, Johnny rebuffed Sheila's attempts to explain and cut his ties to her.

Charlie and Lee approach a former member of Browning's crew, who reveals (in a flashback) after the crash, Sheila found Johnny working as a mechanic. She told him Browning was planning the robbery of a U.S. postal truck. On Sheila's recommendation, he agreed to Johnny as his getaway driver. Johnny forgave Sheila and modified the getaway car. Johnny punched Browning and threatened to kill him after Browning slapped Sheila. They agreed to "settle this" after the robbery.

Browning and North placed a detour sign to send the mail truck onto an isolated mountain road. When the truck stopped, the gang held it up at gunpoint, loading more than $1 million into the getaway car. Johnny then forced Browning out of the moving car, driving off alone with the money.

Charlie and Lee pay a visit to Browning, who is now a real estate developer in Los Angeles. Browning insists he has no idea what happened to the money. He reveals that Sheila is staying at a hotel and arranges a meeting with her. To avoid an ambush, Charlie and Lee go to the hotel hours earlier than agreed, but a clerk spots them and calls Browning. At first, Sheila denies all knowledge of Johnny or the money. Charlie and Lee beat her and dangle her out the window. Terrified, she tells them the truth (in a flashback).

The night before the robbery, Sheila told Johnny that Browning was planning to kill him and pocket his share. Johnny wanted to kill Browning on the spot. Sheila insisted she had a better idea. On her advice, Johnny threw Browning out of the car and drove the money to Sheila, who double-crosses Johnny. As they entered a motel room, Browning was waiting. He shot Johnny, severely wounding him, before Johnny escaped. Fearing Johnny would seek revenge, Browning hired Charlie and Lee to murder him.

Browning is waiting outside the hotel with a sniper rifle. He kills Lee and wounds Charlie. Browning and Sheila return home, where they prepare to flee with the money. Charlie shows up and shoots Browning dead. He shoots and kills Sheila and staggers out the door with the money. Charlie falls dead on the lawn while spilling the money out of the suitcase as the police arrive.

Production
The Killers was intended to be one of the early made-for-TV movies as part of a Project 120 series of films that did not reach the airwaves. It was filmed under the title Johnny North, but NBC regarded it as too violent for broadcast; Universal released the film theatrically instead.

Steve McQueen and George Peppard were considered for the role that eventually went to Cassavetes. After Cassavetes was signed to play the race car driver, director Don Siegel found out the actor could barely drive.

Siegel was considered to direct the 1946 version but was passed over for the film. The Killers was Reagan's last acting role in motion pictures before entering politics and the only villainous role in his career. Reportedly, Reagan later stated his regret in doing the movie.

The main title and closing music, originally composed by Henry Mancini for the Orson Welles film Touch of Evil (1958), was drawn from the Universal Pictures music library and re-edited for use in this film. The song "Too Little Time", composed by Mancini with lyrics by Don Raye as the love theme for The Glenn Miller Story, was sung by Nancy Wilson.

A special role in the film is dedicated to a Shelby Cobra CSX2005. One of the earliest of the iconic American sportscars built by Carroll Shelby, it has one of the longest screentimes of any Hollywood movie. The car was later used in the School of Performance Driving and was driven by many Hollywood celebrities, and is today known as the "Trainer Cobra".

Reception
Film critic J. Hoberman writing in The New York Times regarded Siegel’s The Killers as a "more vivid, streamlined and callous” adaption of the  Hemingway  short story than director Robert Siodmak's  1946 version. Hoberman wrote:

"The cast is first-rate. Thanks to Marvin’s sleek, snub-nosed menace and the edgy thrill-seeking projected by Angie Dickinson’s classy moll, the movie exudes a cynical Rat Pack cool…The shock opener has the two relentless hit men (Lee Marvin and Clu Gulager, in matching shades and sharkskin suits) hunting their prey (John Cassavetes) in a school for the blind; their mission is accomplished amid a crowd of witnesses, none of whom can see."

The Killers holds a rating of 80% on review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes based on 25 reviews with a 7.2/10 average. The consensus reads: "Though it can't best Robert Siodmak's classic 1946 version, Don Siegel's take on the Ernest Hemingway story stakes out its own violent territory, and offers a terrifically tough turn from Lee Marvin."

Theme
Film critic Judith M. Kass explains the ironic significance of the opening setting for The Killers—a school for the blind:

"The sightless students provide a clue to the film’s symbolic stance: that none of the protagonists are able to 'see' the situation they are in nor the fateful course ahead of them. And each is movivated by self-interest, so there is no possibility of co-operation between them."

Kass, commenting on the mass liquidation that marks the film’s climax writes: "In every case, sticking together or relying on one another might have changed the outcome for each."

Awards
Marvin received the 1965 BAFTA Award for Best Actor for this role as well as for his role in Cat Ballou.

title: The Killers (1964 film)


text: User talk:192.94.73.2

title: User talk:192.94.73.2


text:
Smash (British band)

Smash (normally typeset as S*M*A*S*H) are an English punk rock trio, who enjoyed brief notoriety in the early 1990s in the UK. S*M*A*S*H was formed by Ed Borrie (vocals, guitar), Salvatore Alessi (credited as Salv) (bass), and Rob Hague (drums) in Welwyn Garden City in Hertfordshire, England.

Career
Ed Borrie and Salvatore Alessi formed S*M*A*S*H after meeting at school in the mid-1980s - Salvatore had previously been in a band called GLC. Rob Hague joined soon afterwards.

The band's sound recalled the late 1970s and early 1980s punk and new wave bands. The British music press were enthusiastic about the band creating a scene called New wave of new wave, along with similar UK bands of the time such as Echobelly, Sleeper, Compulsion and These Animal Men.

The band's second single was a tribute to feminism called "Lady Love Your Cunt". It appeared on their debut mini album "S*M*A*S*H" which was a compilation of their first two limited edition 7" singles, and was well received by critics. The band made some appearances on UK TV programmes such as Naked City, as well as live performances, including a collaboration with Billy Bragg during an Anti-Nazi League rally.

With a recording contract, the band toured tirelessly, increasing press coverage and attention from fans. The trio still found time to laugh at themselves, occasionally performing under the name S*H*I*T*E.

S*M*A*S*H became the first act to appear on the BBC Television flagship chart show Top of the Pops (TOTP) without having released a single. The trio played "Shame" on TOTP, after their debut EP reached number 26 in the UK Albums Chart.

Their only hit single was "(I Want to) Kill Somebody", which was only available in the shops for one day in 1994. It reached number 26 in the UK Singles Chart. Its controversial subject matter eventually lead to its banning. Their debut full-length album, Self Abused, was not a commercial success, although the group remained a favourite of the critics.

The band recorded a single for the Seattle based label Sub Pop, but S*M*A*S*H remained virtually unknown outside the UK, despite a whistle-stop tour of the United States and support slots across Europe. The EP "Another Love Song E.P." followed in 1995, before the group released their final single, "Rest of My Life", a year later. The band split up in 1996.

In 1997 bass player Salv joined Carter USM as a full-time member, but in 2004 the trio reformed, recording a number of tracks for a forthcoming EP and playing several gigs around the UK.

Recently Rob has been playing drums for The Bleach Boys.

S*M*A*S*H's second LP, Icon was released on 8 October 2007, 13 years after their Self Abused album.

The band released a third album, Goodbye WGC, in 2017. They were due to release a fourth album in 2018/2019, but split at the end of 2018.

On 24 July 2019, Ed Borrie played his first solo gig at the Lexington, London, supporting My Life Story, and in promotion of his solo album What Goes On.

Discography

 * Studio albums
 * Self Abused (5 September 1994, Hi-Rise Recordings) UK No. 59
 * Icon (October 2007, Hyper)
 * Goodbye W.G.C. (24 February 2017, self-released)

 * Extended plays
 * S*M*A*S*H (March 1994, Hi-Rise Recordings/Virgin) UK No. 28
 * Another Love Song E.P (1995, Hi-Rise Recordings/Virgin)
 * (Without Regret.) (2014, esprit de corps)

 * Singles
 * "Real Surreal" b/w "Drugs Again" / "Revisited No 3" (1993)
 * "Lady Love Your Cunt" b/w "Shame" (1993)
 * "(I Want to) Kill Somebody" (1994) UK No. 26
 * "Barrabas (Piloted)" b/w "Turn on the Water" (1994, Sub Pop)
 * "Rest of My Life" b/w "Tidal Wave (Parts One And Two)" (1995)

title: Smash (British band)