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Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian cities

The goal of the Wikiproject Indian cities is to create comprehensive articles on India's cities and towns. The project also aims to standardise section contents and provide ideas as to what can be added to each section. The final goal is to have as many articles on India's cities as a Featured article, one of Wikipedia's best.

If you have any knowledge of any Indian city or town, please help out the project by adding content to the article. You can also contribute photos to the article, if you have been to the city or reside there.

Descendent Wikiprojects

 * WikiProject Lucknow
 * WikiProject Mumbai
 * WikiProject Delhi
 * WikiProject Chennai
 * WikiProject Hyderabad
 * WikiProject Bangalore
 * WikiProject Patna
 * Wikiproject Kollam

Featured articles
Featured articles are some of wikipedia's best articles voted by wikipedians themselves. All intended projects must try to emulate the following articles:

 * Gangtok
 * Kolkata
 * Darjeeling
 * Mysore
 * Hyderabad
 * Tiruchirappalli

Featured lists

 * List of Indian state and union territory capitals

Wikipedia's Peer review process exposes articles to closer scrutiny from a broader group of editors, and is intended for high-quality articles that have already undergone extensive work, often as a way of preparing a featured article candidate.
 * On Peer Review:

 * On Good article nominees:

 * On Featured Article Candidates:

Participants

 * WikiEdits2003 (talk) 11 March 2023
 * Anupam Dutta (Talk) 20 Aug 2020
 * Xoocit (Talk)
 * 04:22:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Madds212 (Talk)
 * (Talk)
 * Amanbisauri (Talk)
 * B203GTB (Talk)
 * Wikiboy2364 (Talk)
 * Wiki tamil 100 (Talk)
 * Jayabharat (Talk)
 * Nichalp (Talk)
 * Sundar (Talk)
 * Imahesh3847 (Talk)
 * utcursch | talk 09:39, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Gryffindor Namaskar. 18:05, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * bikehorn talk
 * DaGizza (Talk)
 * AG47 (Talk)
 * Kash (Talk)
 * sumalsn talk
 * Ganesh talk
 * SwiftRakesh
 * Tarun-Bansal 12:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Dhwanit (dp)
 * Aakkshay
 * Dwaipayanc
 * Marwada
 * Iambatman2022
 * AreJay (talk)
 * Ambuj Saxena (talk)
 * User:Amanrajveer
 * User:tanyasingh Tanyasingh (talk) 06:55, 28 February 2020 (UTC)Tanya
 * thunderboltza.k.a.D e epu _ Joseph
 * a.k.a  Andy123  (talk)
 * [[Image:Flag of India.svg|20px]]Srik e it ( talk ¦  ✉  ) '' 12:49, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Anshulkumardhiman
 * Aksi_great
 * --Blacksun 03:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * lost 19:14, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Saravask 05:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Rev.bayes
 * --Sartaj beary 21:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Arunram (Talk)
 * Maquahuitl
 * Rajithmohan
 * Santhosh J (Talk)
 * Kensplanet (Talk)
 * Sayed Mohd Faiz Haider Rizvi (talk) 05:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 5faizan talk
 *  Suyogaerospacetalk to me! 15:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Santhosh J (Talk)
 * Kensplanet (Talk)
 * Sayed Mohd Faiz Haider Rizvi (talk) 05:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 5faizan talk
 *  Suyogaerospacetalk to me! 15:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 5faizan talk
 *  Suyogaerospacetalk to me! 15:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Place this WikiProject notice Template:WP India at the top of an article's Talk page to direct editors to the Wikiproject Indian cities for guidelines.
 * Rohit Saxena (Talk)
 * AkkiDa
 * Freknsaytalk page
 * Av9 (talk)
 * Adroit09 (talk)
 * — Vensatry (Ping me)  09:59, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Balablitz (talk) 01:01, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Human3015
 * Pratyush (talk)
 * AnM2002 (talk)
 * Omer123hussain (talk) --Omer123hussain (talk) 06:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice
 * Pratyush (talk)
 * AnM2002 (talk)
 * Omer123hussain (talk) --Omer123hussain (talk) 06:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice
 * AnM2002 (talk)
 * Omer123hussain (talk) --Omer123hussain (talk) 06:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice
 * AnM2002 (talk)
 * Omer123hussain (talk) --Omer123hussain (talk) 06:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice
 * WikiProject Indian cities notice

To use it, place

at the top of an article's Talk page

Basic India conventions

 * Use only British English spellings as per the guidelines for India related pages.
 * Use dd.mm.yyyy dates (date followed by month followed by year).
 * All units should be metric (SI) units. Imperial equivalents should be given alongside in brackets. Using the conversion template is recommended.
 * You may use the Indian numbering system of lakhs and crores, but if doing so state their equivalent million or billion alongside.
 * For monetary figures, use the Indian numbering system but also give its US dollar equivalence in brackets.
 * Naming conventions (Indic)
 * Census of India, the settlement is called as a city only if it is an urban area and its population is one lakh and above (100,000+).

Disambiguation
In many cases a district and its headquarters share the same name. For example, Mysore is the name of a city, district and division. For such cases, contents of the district should be added to Mysore district and the division should be added to Mysore division. Thus Mysore will be having only matter relating to the city. However the link to the division and district should be mentioned on the city page. In case where a urban agglomeration is defined for a city, there should be separate page for the UA. For example, Mumbai Metropolitan Region contains information about the urban agglomeration and the city page contains details only about the city.

= Sections = These are the sections that should be included. Like all rules on wikipedia, use your instinct and intuition. If any of the sections become too long or end up having too many sub-sections, it is better to add them to another page, eg. "History of City XYZ", and add a "Main Article" template (see how to add a template), for example:

Lead
This is not a section per se, but the text that comes before the Table of Contents.

The lead should summarise key aspects of the city, what it is known for and its significance. The first paragraph should also mention its geographical location, distance from the state capital. Geographical co-ordinates can be mentioned, if there is no separate section for Geography. Use the Cities infobox to enter relevant details.

The origins of the city name can also be included here. Also recommended are the IPA and aural rendering of the city name. The lead should contain a minimum of two medium sized paragraphs (~300 words). Also, need to be noted that there is a community consensus on not to use use WP:INDICSCRIPTS in lead.

 * Rating: Compulsory
 * Length: 2-3 paragraphs

Etymology (Origin of name)
If there are many theories of the name of the city and the etymology (or toponym) which would unnecessary lengthen the lead in, consider adding this section. The origin of the name is important and should be included in the article. All theories should carry valid citations.

 * Sources: You can try your luck at Infoplease encyclopædia
 * Rating: Section optional; inclusion important
 * Length: minimum one large paragraph, or two small paragraphs.

History
The history section is one of the most important sections of the article. It should describe the key events of the city starting from its origins to the current. As far as possible avoid political history except for key instances crucial for the city's change. Do not use subheadings. Recent history should also be mentioned. Recent incidents may be incorporated in other relevant sections like "Government and Politics", "Demographics" etc. as appropriate.
 * Who founded the city? When?
 * Economic history of the city like old trades, businesses, livelihoods
 * What made the city famous? Who are the famous personalities from this town?
 * History of the  monuments/heritage structures.

 * Sources: The city municipality's website, Google Scholar (search city name+history), Encyclopedia Britannica (or see this list of names here).
 * Rating: Compulsory
 * Length: 4-6 paragraphs; summarise/précis if longer, add detail to another page.

Geography
This section is also compulsory. Describe the city's geographical coordinates, location in India, altitude, area, region (Konkan, Deccan etc.), if coastal city etc. If applicable also mention rivers, lakes, creeks and islands within and near the city. Hills and highest point may also be mentioned. Some prompts:

 * What are the town’s coordinates?  What is the location of the town (near which big city?) What are the main areas, localities, and their proportionate sizes?
 * Geology : Any mountains/rivers/tectonic plates/rocks?
 * Climate: Temperature per month and climate events (monsoon for e.g.)
 * Any natural disasters
 * What is the flora and the fauna ? Are there main green areas / protected areas ?

"If there is a lot of information under this section, consider the following subsections"
 * Conservation efforts of heritage

Topography
If available, add a paragraph on the topography of the city, i.e. the geographical landscape.

Climate
This sub-section is compulsory. If there is less information under Geography, you do not need to add climate as a subsection.

Mention the seasons, weather, when the city gets its rains and annual rainfall. Give the average temperature and if possible temperature records. Also give the range of yearly extreme temperatures. Eg. The annual temperatures range from a high of 42 °C to a low of 2 °C. The climate section can also be a standalone section. See Mumbai. For extreme temperatures this site has a good list. Units should be in SI with imperial equivalents.

This tablefrom India Meteorological Department has data on minimum, maximum temperature and rainfall data for many cities.

Conservation
Anything to do with environmental conservation in the city.

Geology
If available, add a paragraph on the geology of the city. This information is optional. If the region falls in an earthquake prone zone; mention that too (see Earthquake hazard zoning of India and this UNDP report for hazard zone information).

If adequate information on both the climate and geology is available, then the two may also be included as subsections under Geography. See Sikkim.

Flora and Fauna
If available, add a paragraph on the flora and fauna of the city.
 * Sources: State, District, City Government Websites ; IMD Archive for climate information, FallingRain for geographical coordinates, Google news or the encyclopædia InfoPlease.
 * Rating: Compulsory
 * Length: Varies. Try not to exceed 10 paragraphs if geology and climate are both included in geography.

Demographics
Mention the population here, if it is a metropolis, mention the city and metropolitan population. Also mention the density, literacy, sex ratio. Mention the break up of religious groups. If information is available, the slum population and crime rate statistics can be included. Include inline references. This site has

You can mention the languages spoken in the city and ethnic groups. The status of communal harmony can be mentioned.

If there is a lot of information under this section, the proposed subsections or areas that you can cover are:

Population
The population should be as per the latest census (which is 2011). Besides the total population of the city/district, the breakup of male and female to be given in percentage (Example 53% male and 47% female). Sex ratio to be given as number of females per 1,000 males. Literacy rate and percent of population below the age of 06 years also to be given.

Languages
However, please note that if the content under this section becomes too long, create a separate page for the Geography of the city.

 * Sources: Population statistics at World Gazetteer. You can also go the census website and take a look at the District Census Handbook (Part B) for district and city specific information.
 * Rating: Very Important
 * Length: maximum five paragraphs

Government and politics
This section include information on the civic administration/governance/actors (institutions responsible for the city), as well as civic utility (information about various services supplied to citizens). A city falls under multiple administrative areas - the Lok sabha/Vidhan sabha constituency; district administration; state government; central government; local, primary or city government/ULB, but this city page is expected to focus on the city government (see Devolution, 74th CAA).

In the introduction to this section, mention how many seats the city contributes to the Lok Sabha, Rajya Sabha and the state assembly. X city usually falls under Y constituency, represented by an MP and an MLA. You can also list some of the political parties, and add political history here.

Civic Administration
Proposed subsections include:

City Government
You can link this subsection to the Municipal Corporation of the city, for eg.Talk about the municipality/municipalities that govern the city. Mention how many subdivisions and wards there are in the city. Include information about mayors, councillors/corporators, commissioners etc.

 * Does the town have a municipal government (municipal corporation, council)?
 * If yes, when was the municipal government created?
 * How many wards and elected members are there including mayor etc. ?
 * What are its functions (such as waste collection, water supply) ?
 * How is the municipal government administered (how many people/how many departments)?
 * How many years is the tenure of the council, mayors etc?
 * Is there a cantonment board inside the town ? What is its area ?

Other Authorities/
While a city is administered by a municipal body or municipality, other agencies also play a major role:

 * Development Authorities
 * Smart City SPVs (Special Purpose Vehicals)
 * Police Commissionerate
 * District/Divisional HQ & District Collectorate/Magistrate
 * Coastal Zone Management Authorities

Include other parastatals here as well. Local courts can also be mentioned.

Civic Utility / Amenities / Services
Information on electricity, water supply, road maintenance etc, basically the functions under the local government, which are also performed by the state government.
 * Who creates the masterplan for the city?
 * Which agencies are responsible for the piped water supply, sewerage, sewage treatment etc. (there may be multiple agencies for each function)?
 * What proportion of the city has piped water? Where are the sources (natural, artificial)? How many households are attached?
 * What proportion of the city has sewerage networks? How many households are attached?
 * Who/which agency supplies electricity?
 * The number of hospitals in the city, urban Primary Health Centres (PHCs), CHCs, etc
 * Sources: To find the name of municipalities within your city, use Google search/news, or go to the census website and download the handbook under 'town amenities'; Then visit the respective municipality website or search for information about it. For Lok Sabha (see this) and Rajya Sabha (see this). You can try searching for the "city development plan" for this information, or access information in District Handbooks. You can also use Google News to find this information.
 * Rating: Very Important
 * Length: Not more than four paragraphs.

Economy
Describe the primary economy of the city, the major industries, businesses etc. Also mention the primary occupations of the city residents. A list of major companies can also be included. If the length exceeds four paragraphs, move the detail to a separate article titled Economy of the city, and provide only a summary of 3-4 paragraphs here highlighting only the key points in the city's development.

 * Rating: Compulsory
 * Length: Not more than four paragraphs.

Culture/Cityscape
Mention what city residents are called. Mention popular cuisines. Film, architecture, art can be added. Include art galleries, museums and public libraries present in the city. Clothing too can be included. Notable musicians, authors, actors etc can be included.

Mention festivals in the city, the important ones and how popular ones are celebrated, include both religious and non-religious festivals. Suggested areas that can be covered under this section are:

Famous persons

 * Rating: Very Important
 * Length: not more than five.

Transport
Mention intra-city public transport (don’t use transportation, it's American English) eg. Buses, auto rickshaws, cycle rickshaws, taxis, trams etc. It should be in prose form rather than in bulleted points. For external transport, mention how the city is connected to the rest of India: airports, flying clubs, railway station and bus stations. Proposed subsections:

By Road
The distance from the District Headquarters /State capital should be given. Also the distance from nearby important towns/cities could be included.

 * Rating: Very Important
 * Length: Variable, avoid more than five.

Education
Write about schools in the city, the boards that they follow and the education pattern. Important schools and colleges can be mentioned. Mention universities and prominent institutions and other educational centres.

 * Rating: Important
 * Length: maximum four.

Media
Write about the newspapers in the city; radio stations in FM and AM. Also include how television is received in the city — terrestrial, cable, DTH, CAS. Also include print publications in the city.

 * Rating: Important
 * Length: not more than three.

Sports
Mention the most popular sport in the city. Mention the stadiums present in the city for each sport. Also include the sports that are popular in schools, colleges and the most viewed sports. Prominent sportsmen from the city can also be included. This section may also be merged with the "Culture" section.

 * Rating: Important
 * Length: not more than three.

Infoboxes
Use Infobox settlement:

Licence
Wikipedia needs free images. By *free* we mean that images should be allowed for any use, be it derivative or commercial (with conditions). The image should *NOT* come from a copyrighted source or be stolen from a website. You can only upload an image if you have an account here. When you upload an image, in the summary, mention the source of the image and tag it with a licence. Popular free tags include:

 * PD – public domain (Indicate the source, or mention if it is self made)
 * cc-by-sa or cc-by – Creative commons. (Indicate the source, or mention if it is self made)

There are a lot more licences: you can read more here: Image copyright tags and Licensing.

India specific information

 * By Indian copyright laws, all images published in India before January 1, are in Public Domain and can be uploaded to wikipedia. Use PD-India for such images.
 * Do not upload images sourced from Indian government sites. They are copyrighted.
 * cc-by-sa-2.5-in and cc-by-2.5-in are India-specific CC licences

Commons
If you have a free photo to upload, please upload it to Wikimedia instead of the English Wikipedia so that it can be embedded into all Wikimedia projects. If you have diagrams or graphs containing English text to upload, upload it to en wiki instead. Images with no text are more suited for commons.

Searching

 * Search for free images here: http://search.creativecommons.org/: Make sure that the "Search for works I can use for commercial purposes." and " Search for works I can modify, adapt, or build upon." checkbox options are selected.
 * You might also find free images in the *.gov domain. Always do a check on the images licence to confirm.
 * You can also place a request at WikiProject India/Photography

Maps

 * See WikiProject Indian maps

File types

 * use .jpg for photographs only
 * use: .gif for animations only
 * use: .svg for all other types (maps, charts, diagrams etc.)
 * use: .png if and only if svg images cannot be created.

Please upload at the *highest* possible resolution you can afford to.

Use in text
An image should be related to the text alongside. Do not place a picture of a bus in the geography section, it would be better under the transport section. The images should be preferably right-aligned as it is easier to read the text. Do not set a default size for the images as the size is determined by the user preferences. Also avoid overuse of images, and overlapping of images into the next section. Always test at 800×600, the standard web resolution.

Page size
Around 25 kb should be the bare minimum. A page size of under 30kb is easy to read. Upto 32 kb should be sufficient, but a page size of over 35 kb is considered too large to read. This number is exclusive of references, external links, interwiki links, footnotes, table and infoboxes markup and see alsos.

Some wikipedia conventions

 * For main articles use this template:
 * Add a non breaking space (&nbsp;) between a unit and the value eg. 15 m (50 feet) renders as: 15 m (50 feet)
 * Better still, use the convert or cvt templates. These provide the conversion and suitable formatting
 * displays as: 15 m
 * displays as: 15 m
 * For geographical coordinates use the following templates:
 *   – Use for geographical coordinates in metric or in degrees.
 *  22.25°N, 82.08333°W  – Use for geographical coordinates, if both the degree and minute has to be displayed.
 *  22.26167°N, 82.0925°W  – Use for geographical coordinates if the degree, minute and second has to be displayed.
 * Use &minus; for negative numbers.
 * For 'related topics' the convention is:  ''
 * As the article would contain some script of Indic text (for example, the name of the city in local script), add the Template:IndicText in the article. You may place the template at the beginning or towards the end of the article. It is to help those users that do not have indic-text supported operating systems.

Other India-related wikiprojects

 * Indian states
 * Indian districts
 * Indian regions
 * Indian geography

Tools

 * Main tool page: toolserver.org

 * Reflinks - Edits bare references - adds title/dates etc. to bare references
 * Checklinks - Edit and repair external links
 * Dab solver - Quickly resolve ambiguous links.
 * Peer reviewer - Provides hints and suggestion to improving articles.

title: Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian cities


text:
John Ker, 3rd Duke of Roxburghe

John Ker, 3rd Duke of Roxburghe, KG, KT, PC (23 April 1740 – 1804) was a Scottish peer, scholar and publisher.

Early life
Born in Hanover Square, London, on 23 April 1740, Ker succeeded his father to become the 3rd Duke of Roxburghe in 1755. During his Grand Tour in 1761 he fell in love with Duchess Christiane of Mecklenburg, oldest daughter of Duke Charles Louis Frederick of Mecklenburg. This would have been a perfect match of social equals. Shortly afterwards a younger sister, Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, became engaged to King George III. It was considered bad etiquette for an elder sister to marry someone of lower rank than a younger sister. For whatever reason, both John Ker and Christina separated and remained single for the rest of their lives. If George III recognised the sacrifice that Ker had made, it was rewarded with a high position at court. He was Lord of the Bedchamber from 1767, was appointed a Knight of the Thistle in 1768. In 1796 he was appointed Groom of the Stole and made a Privy Counsellor. He was appointed a Knight of the Garter in 1801.

Bibliophile

While in Italy, Ker saw a first edition of Boccaccio's Decameron, often called the Valdarfers edition. This was a fabled book, which many said did not exist. He paid 100 guineas for it and showed it to his friends in London to huge acclaim. For the next 40 years he collected ancient and curious books, particularly editions of Shakespeare's works and other works which merely mentioned Shakespeare. At his death in 1804 there were 10,000 items. Most were books, but there were also pamphlets and broadside ballad sheets. His library was auctioned in 1812, leading to the formation of the Roxburghe Club. His collection of ballads were later published as the Roxburghe Ballads.

He died unmarried and childless, and the titles Earl Ker and Baron Ker, which had been created for his father in 1722 in the Peerage of Great Britain, became extinct. His cousin William Bellenden, 7th Lord Bellenden succeeded to the dukedom and all of its other subsidiary titles.

In popular culture
In Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, a 2004 novel by British writer Susanna Clarke, the Duke's affection for the Queen's sister and their subsequent separation are mentioned, and made a premise for an important aspect of the story. One of the title characters, Gilbert Norrell, had a longstanding wish to examine the books of the Duke's library, believing there to be magical texts within. The Duke, being a bibliophile and rich, saw no reason to allow Mr. Norrell the opportunity, and so upon the Duke's death, the new Duke puts the library up for sale in order to pay off court debts. The Duke's library contained several extremely rare and valuable tomes, which Mr. Norrell purchases at auction, causing an increase in friction between himself and Jonathan Strange.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: John Ker, 3rd Duke of Roxburghe


text:
A Cappella (Todd Rundgren album)

A Cappella is a 1985 album by Todd Rundgren. The album is one of Rundgren's most unusual in that every sound is the product of the artist's voice. Rundgren employed overdubbing techniques and an E-mu Emulator (an early sampler), electronically manipulating the sound of his voice to mimic conventional rock instruments, handclaps, and other sounds. This approach to music making was later explored by artists such as Mike Patton and Björk.

A Cappella was finished in 1984 and slated for release on Bearsville Records later that year. But with Bearsville's slimming artist roster and lack of successful artists, founder Albert Grossman did not want to risk releasing an album that he felt was too experimental and would not sell, so A Cappella was shelved. According to journalist Barney Hoskyns, Grossman's increasingly fractious relationship with Rundgren also factored into the decision. Bearsville filed for bankruptcy in 1985 and all of its remaining master recordings were either released through Warner Bros. or shelved altogether. Rundgren's Bearsville contract was acquired by Warner Bros. executive Mo Ostin, with Grossman (who died shortly thereafter) retaining ownership of Rundgren's publishing company.

A test pressing of A Cappella was copied and bootlegged under the title, "Runt A Cappella" (CATSVILLE TR-084), and may have influenced Warner Bros. to release the album since bootleggers were profiting from it. This same bootleg was also released as a high quality concert recording of an A Cappella live concert, taken from a recording at the Bismark Theater, on October 25, 1985, that was broadcast via the King Biscuit Flower Hour. The packaging of both bootlegs were the same, so it was unknown whether it was the studio LP or live LP until it was played.

A Cappella would also be Rundgren's first official album for Warner Bros. Records, following the demise of Bearsville Records, which Warner Bros. distributed. Rhino Records would subsequently acquire the rights to the album for release on CD and for online distribution. Following its release, Rundgren put his solo career on hold and would not release another studio album until 1989.

Track listing
All songs written by Todd Rundgren, except where indicated.

 * Side one
 * 1) "Blue Orpheus" – 5:02
 * 2) "Johnee Jingo" – 3:51
 * 3) "Pretending to Care" – 3:40
 * 4) "Hodja" – 3:25
 * 5) "Lost Horizon" – 4:57

 * Side two
 * 1) "Something to Fall Back On" – 4:13
 * 2) "Miracle in the Bazaar" – 4:12
 * 3) "Lockjaw" – 4:01
 * 4) "Honest Work" – 2:40
 * 5) "Mighty Love" (Joseph B. Jefferson, Bruce Hawes, Charles Simmons) – 3:41

Personnel

 * Todd Rundgren - all vocals and sounds, art direction, engineer, producer

Charts
Album

Cover versions and samples

 * British Asian musician Kindness sampled Pretending to Care on their song Cry Everything on their 2019 album Something Like a War.
 * American singer Jennifer Warnes covered "Pretending to Care" on her 1992 album The Hunter, which reached No. 13 on the Billboard Adult Contemporary chart. The song was also covered by Australian singer Daryl Braithwaite on his 1988 album Edge. Both versions featured traditional instrumentation. Singer (and Manhattan Transfer member) Janis Siegel also recorded the song for her 1989 album Short Stories, a collaboration with pianist Fred Hersch.
 * Guitarist Paul Gilbert covered "Blue Orpheus" on his 2010 album Fuzz Universe.
 * "Honest Work" has been covered by several Irish vocal acts, including Beyond the Pale, Cloudstreet, Pat Sheridan, and Maddy Prior.
 * "Hodja" was performed on the first season of the television series, Full House, and was sung by Jesse Katsopolis (John Stamos), along with his group of friends, The Rippers.
 * "Johnee Jingo" has been sampled on hip-hop songs "Drinks Up!" by Madlib and "Earl Flinn" by Slum Village, from the albums WLIB AM: King of the Wigflip and Villa Manifesto respectively.
 * "Lost Horizons" was later sampled by Todd Rundgren himself for his track No World Order in 1993.

title: A Cappella (Todd Rundgren album)


text:
User talk:A strolling player

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- Infrogmation 08:09, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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The Mark Inside
I put a neutrality notice on The Mark Inside, as I felt the previous article was a bit too much like a press release for the band. Don't take it personally, I just thought that it needed toning down. Leithp 11:52, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

Louisiana NHLs
Hi Stroller -- I noticed you added a couple small edits to List of National Historic Landmarks in Louisiana. Your edits were valid and helpful, and suggest at least some familiarity with Louisiana. I wonder, could you do more edits on the article, perhaps adding/improving descriptions for the sites it covers? I am working at creating articles for each of the NHLs it indexes, which could use editing help, too. Sincerely, doncram (talk) 19:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:51, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:A strolling player


text: Category:705 BC deaths

title: Category:705 BC deaths


text: Category:700s BC deaths

title: Category:700s BC deaths


text:
Talk:Autodesk Animator

Since Animator is no longer supported, I can feel free to promote it. This is without doubt the best piece of software I have ever used. My employer embedded animator files into its multimedia CD-ROMs, and almost anything was possible. It played full screen animations on a 386 (as long as the animations were carefully designed). I have never seen anything that rivals it for handling a palette, before or since. The only weaknesses were poor fonts and dithering, but these problems could be overcome. At the time, Macromedia Director was advertised as the number one animation tool, but in comparison to Animator, Director was awkward, amateurish, very limited and painfully slow. Since then, Director has greatly improved, and Flash makes it a high quality animation tool at last. But back then it was laughable in comparison. But I remember it being promoted as an animation tool, and as a result it took me years to take Director seriously. The same can be said for other DOS and Windows based animators of the time. Another thing I liked was the crisp, clean animations. Most bitmap based animation formats (e.g. AVI) use lossy compression. As a result, animations created in Animator can become five or ten times bigger, and look much worse, when converted to AVI (depending on the codec used). My large Animator files played smoothly and beautifully even from a two speed CD. O.K., I have raved enough. I really, really liked this product. Please note that I refer to Animator Pro. Animator Studio (the later Windows version) was a brave attempt to incorporate 24 bit color and sound, but it was buggy and slow, and nothing like as useful as Animator Pro. Animator Pro is sadly missed. - Chris Tolworthy

Good lord, the grammar in this article was/is atrocious. It's most definitely not written like an encyclopedia article. I started to to a bit of cleaning but gave up. Regardless, Animator was a great application. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.19.24 (talk) 02:35, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Remove promotional information
Removed promotional information from article as it was not appropriate for an encyclopedia article. Please cite references on any factual information and avoid posting personal opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.191.104 (talk) 12:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

https://books.google.de/books?id=hqQJaNzN9IcC&pg=PA452&lpg=PA452&dq=%22autodesk+animator+pro%22&source=bl&ots=w7IhjENfW8&sig=SGamQQjJ1BCFA3u7HaEVNtW9mo4&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiX-7TekpfSAhUERhQKHeNNCsE4ChDoAQgoMAU#v=onepage&q=%22autodesk%20animator%20pro%22&f=false

Would be nice to know version release information. --98.70.122.108 (talk) 20:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)Jay C.

title: Talk:Autodesk Animator


text:
Caribou Mountains

Caribou Mountains can refer to:

 * Caribou Mountains (Alberta) a mountain range in Alberta, Canada
 * Caribou Mountains Wildland Park, a park within these mountains
 * Caribou Mountains (Idaho) a mountain range in Idaho, United States

title: Caribou Mountains


text: User talk:81.251.179.81

title: User talk:81.251.179.81


text:
Talk:Rumspringa

Ends at baptism?
According to this ex-Amish lady (and a few documentaries, such as "Amish at the Altar"), it ends at marriage, not baptism. Baptism is a pre-requisite for marriage. As that ex-Amish lady writes, and as explained in the reality-tv show "Living With the Amish" on Channel4, Sunday-evening hymn singing is how Amish teenagers tend to spend rumspringa, not the media-sensationalised version this Wiki page pushes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Macoafi (talk • contribs) 17:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Popular Culture
What happened to the section on this word appearing in popular culture? Specifically, the movie Sex Drive and some popular TV Show (and probably others that weren't on this page when I looked). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.19.218.141 (talk) 17:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The section had begun to attract documentation of every mention in every episode of every tv show or movie. It was whittled down to substantive treatments (for example, when the whole film was devoted to the subject). DavidOaks (talk) 18:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Er... why should that have to be whittled down? Also, the film Sex Drive deals with the subject substantially.  It's an important part to the plot line, and further epitomizes a common (mis)understanding of what rumspringa is.  Can I go ahead and add that back or will those modifications just be deleted from this page's history again? 98.19.218.141 (talk) 00:24, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It should be whittled down if it begins to overshadow the subject, for example, if listings and discussions of distortions and send-ups were to start to be a significant proportion of the article (per WP:Undue), in comparison to discussion of the topic itself. Think of what would happen if Mona Lisa had an account and image of every parody. If you think a discussion of this film can advance understanding of the subject, and you have WP:RS for the views reported, policy is WP: Be Bold: have at it. It might be reverted, might not. In which case you and others would visit here and work things out (at least that's the theory and usual practice). I haven't seen the particular film, but I haven't heard that it represents a major contribution to the understanding of anything. If credible third parties have made that case, their views (and opposing views, if any) belong here. If it's just that it's a low-rent flick that deals with the subject, inclusion will get less support. And feel free to get a WP:Username. DavidOaks (talk) 01:54, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I hardly think two mentioning of pop-culture references in the Media Coverage section is over-shadowing the entire article. I also just noticed that the Amish article has a much more significant  section dedicated to the portrayal of Amish people in popular entertainment where both of my previous references are cited.  Seems that by your editing that entire section (which is quite large and greatly parallels your Mona Lisa analogy) should be removed.  In fact, there are countless articles that are exactly the same.  I guess "there is no end to the proliferation of episodes and mentions." eh?  And no thanks on the Username.  While I may choose to use this resource in the future (and do greatly enjoy reading lots of great articles written by lots of smart people), I'd prefer to not be associated with a community that fosters people like you.

(outdent)I heartily agree that the section in the Amish article needs trimming on exactly the same grounds (tho' note, it's a bigger subject, longer article, and therefore can sustain a longer digression without losing coherence). Go ahead and clip that one too. As to the personal stuff, I really don't understand what has upset you; you were advised to WP:Be Bold with your ideas, and at the same time asked to recognize that others might not share them -- that's got nothing to do with you and nothing to do with me; it's just how the Wikipedia process works. Stuff I thought (and still think) important has been edited out, stuff I thought and think unimportant has been put back. If that's consenus, I comply or quit participating. DavidOaks (talk) 13:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

 * I intentionally renamed the section because "In popular culture" is a magnet for unsourced or poorly sourced material that is typically tangential to serious coverage of the topic. (On a related note, the proliferation of "In popular culture" section headers is contrary to the heading style guide because it is not a noun phrase.) Because this topic, along with Amish in general, has been thoroughly studied by sociologists and anthropologists, I prefer to see the content tied directly to the work of those scholars. If portrayals by the media are covered by these disciplines or the equivalent in the field of communications, it should be included. If not, I would say it doesn't belong. I invite other editors to raise the bar for this article and strive to ensure it is based on the published work of reputable scholars and researchers. If there is a topic that is important to the article, than it will have been covered by one of these high quality third-party sources. ✤ JonHarder talk 11:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

 * I think this issue can be easily solved by splitting the section into "Media coverage and "Popular Culture." Nonfiction and fiction. While the concept of 'popular culture' may be tangential to parent topic, Amish, it most certainly is integral to the serious coverage of any topic. Wikipedia is a catalog of human knowledge, not a repository for scholarly knowledge. This subject is explored in film and television because there is sufficient intrigue for it to form the foundation of a good fictional story. There are certainly more than enough references in popular culture to warrant it's own section, provided each reference sufficiently summarizes the story as it pertains to the subject. While popular culture headers are technically and semantically contrary to the heading style guide, frankly, this is easily fixed by simply titling "Popular Culture" or "References in Popular Culture." Pop culture headers are prolific for a reason. People want to know. I did... it's what lead me to this article. While I agree that this article would be improved with more scholarly content, that content should not negate the significance of the subject's role in popular culture. JvA talk 14:05, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Spelling
Is it rumschpringe or rumspringe? Could somebody with some knowledge of Pennsylvania German put that right? Ben talk contr 08:13, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

It is "rumschpringe" or "rumshpringa" in Pennsylvania German (Pennsylvania German has various systems of orthography). Rumspringa is an English adaptation, since there is normally a constraint against "shp" in the onset of an English syllable.
 * Throughout German orthography, when we say "shp" at the onset of a syllable, we write "sp". So, it would be rumspringa in German-based orthography, and the English pronunciation would be just as explainable as "too literal rendering" than as an adaption. It would be rumshpringa in English-based orthography.--2001:A60:1534:9401:F51B:C55B:1F3A:EAB2 (talk) 20:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Painted Fence?
I've read in at least one book that the painted fence story is false.

 * Indeed Aurand's own book concludes that "where there is a blue gate there may be a girl eligible for marriage" or may not. http://www.sacred-texts.com/ame/amish/am07.htm  And there is evidence at least as strong as that, to show the story is just a myth: http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/bluegatemyth.htm  Colin McLarty (talk) 18:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

The Devil's Playground
In the video, mention is made of "unwed mothers". Is there a reputable reference for learning the fate of the children of these "unwed mothers"?

Shachtman's book discusses the phenomenon of unwed mothers to some degree, but not sure if "fate of the children" is covered explicitly. Owlmonkey 07:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Translations:

to run = german: rennen; swiss german: renne, springe, seckle

to run around = german: herumrennen; swiss german: umerenne, umespringe, umeseckle

to jump = german: springen (high), hüpfen (low); swiss german: gumpe

to skip = german: überspringen; swiss german: überspringe

... I was wondering why "rumspringa" is translated as "running around". "rumspringa" definitively means "to jump around". "run around" doesn't really fit. "springe" in Swiss German means something moving in a messy way. imagine a bunch of kids running chaotically through the garden. they are "rumspringa". I wouldnt translate it as "run around" though,as it's not messy enough... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.192.163.183 (talk) 08:25, 30 March 2010 (UTC) It's Pennsylvania Deitsch, not standard German or Swiss German. zto get pissed means something entirely different in New York from what it means in London...DavidOaks (talk) 12:44, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Rumspringabreaka
What's that? Should be clarified or removed.150.243.14.42 13:51, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Unwarranted editorializing
"Rumspringa is also the title of a song on the Scotch Green's, the best musical group in the world's, second album"

'best musical group in the world'? Oh, come now!

Citing "Wipespread belief"
How do you cite this, and what is the threshold for widespread belief? I think its just best to remove this. Navou 04:25, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't think it needs documentation -- it's a popular belief. Anyone investigating will find the claim asserted. Simply removing the phrase, however, creates the appearance that the claim is factual, and that really changes things.DavidOaks 12:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

 * If it is in the encyclopedia proper, then its needs to be factual, as opposed to believed. We can see the "fact" is propoerly referenced in the article, and if such a reference is cited, then has this moved from belief to fact, according to the references? I propose that we remove the phrase, on this rationale.  What are you thoughts? Navou 21:48, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not completely sure I'm following you. You feel that we need to document the fact that some people believe that Rumspringa is a rite of passage? To me, that seems comparable to documenting the fact that some people believe that the word "dork" was originally slang for "whale's penis" (see the discussion page at dork); anyone googling "dork" and "etymology" will run into that nonfactual assertion very quickly. If that's necessary, here's the first Google hit for "rumspringa is a rite of passage": http://rameumptom.blogspot.com/2004/06/dancing-with-devil.html It references the film already prominent in the article. I guess we could do that. Now, if we remove "according to widespread belief," we are left with the assertion that "rumspringa is a rite of passage," which is a contested assertion, to put it mildly. Let me try a comparison: the article on Nessie begins thus: "The Loch Ness Monster is a cryptid, claimed to inhabit Scotland's Loch Ness, the most voluminous freshwater lake in Great Britain." On the principle you're proposing, we'd be changing it to "The Loch Ness Monster is a cryptid which inhabits Scotland's Loch Ness, the most voluminous freshwater lake in Great Britain..."  I think this goes against the encyclopedic principle, which seeks to distinguish (consensus) secure knowledge from contested assertions, and in the case of conflict, acknowledging the disagreement. It seems to me that "acording to widespread belief" captures the situation quite precisely, while removing that phrase misrepresents the situation. DavidOaks 22:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I do understand where you are coming from, however, if the references back that assertion up, then is it still believed, or is it a properly sourced fact? But then I would propose, that actually sourcing a belief, and characterizing it as widespread would prove more difficult. Navou 03:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Devils playground.jpg
Image:Devils playground.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:43, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

New Intro
Egged on by the "cleanup" tag on the article, and while reading Shachtman's book, I took a stab at a new introduction with appropriate citations. I also added sections for the remaining body, attempting to leave as much of it unchanged for future edits or collaboration with you all as possible. I'm also hoping the sectioning will inspire more editing and clarification. Owlmonkey 22:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I found the reorganization affirms the rumspringa as factual, as institutional; at the very least, that's in dispute.DavidOaks 05:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

 * OK, would love to work with you on this. I still think the citations were valuable, the article really could use more of those. Shachtman seems to be describing a phenomenon that is quite observable, but I agree he does not depict it in any way as institutional to the Amish or even sanctioned by elders. My suggested changes were an attempt to honor that point of view as well. Is that what you meant? That's why I only used "some youth diverge" and "generally refers". But these edits sounded like they were too institutional to you. Nonetheless it seems to be both a notable phenomenon and factual in the sense that it is being observed by at least some scholars. How can we rectify that, I'd really love to help clean up the article. Right now it's really rough. Or do you really feel like the whole rumspringa depiction in the references is poor scholarship? I'll include the paragraphs I wrote again here, I'd love your specific thoughts on them. Owlmonkey 06:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Also, I had some specific issues with the current article language, including the "widespread belief" language. It seems to me that the concept of rumspringa isn't really "widespread" or well known really at all. So "widespread" struck me as odd. I also didn't find any citation in Shachtman at all that described the phenomenon as a "rite of passage". My understanding of that term would mean it were a required social or religious stage for the youth, but the citations I added clearly made the point that less than half of youth in larger amish communities had pronounced changes in behavior during that age range. But I left that language only not to step on anyone's toes in my initial changes. Owlmonkey 06:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Rumspringa generally refers to a period of adolescence for members of the Amish religious denomination - a subsect of the Anabaptist Christian movement - that begins around the age of sixteen and ends when a youth chooses baptism within the Amish church or instead leaves the community. The vast majority choose baptism and remain in the church. Not all Amish use this term, but in sects that do Amish elders generally view this time for courtship and finding a spouse.

 * Tweaked the lede; there's no evidence at all that adolescents typically leave the community during adolescence. 150.243.14.35 (talk) 18:06, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Popularized View (section)

As is the case in many societies, during this period rules may be relaxed and some misbehavior is tolerated. A view of rumspringa has emerged among some scholars and popular culture that this divergence from custom is part of adolescence for Amish youth or a rite of passage. Among the Amish who use this term, rumspringa simply refers to adolescence. During that time a certain amount of misbehavior is unsurprising and is not so severely condemned (for instance, by Meidung or shunning). Adults who have made a permanent and public commitment to the faith would be held to the higher standards of behavior defined in part by the Schleitheim and Dordrecht confessions. In a narrow sense the young are not bound by the Ordnung because they have not taken adult membership in the church. Amish adolescents do remain however under the strict authority of parents who are bound to Ordnung, and there is no period when adolescents are formally "released" from these rules.

A minority of youth do diverge from popularized customs of the Amish community. Some may be found:
 * Wearing non-traditional clothing and hair styles
 * Driving vehicles instead of horse drawn buggies (for communities that eschew vehicles)
 * Sleeping over in bed courtship with the opposite sex
 * Not attending home prayer
 * Drinking and smoking

Diverging from community standards may sometimes go beyond the desires of the community, but that is not inconsistent with Anabaptist tenets. In particular it is essential for adults to enter baptism knowingly and informed, and that could mean informed of life outside the strict Amish culture. Not all youth diverge from custom during this period, approximately half in the larger communities and the majority in smaller Amish communities remain within the norms of Amish dress or behavior during adolescence.

then a Leaving The Community subsection

then a Variations subsection

then Citations (adding)
 * Bowman, Carl Desportes. Brethren Society: The Cultural Transformation of a Peculiar People, 1995 ISBN 0-80184-9055

 * This looks good to me -- it conveys the key points in an orderly, NPOV way, including the disputed areas. DavidOaks 15:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, going ahead with the changes though trying to preserve all of the original content as much as possible. But inviting further editing and cleanup to meet modern quality standards for the article. Owlmonkey 22:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I really appreciate your willingness to take on the cleanup. Going back in the history of the article, what was tussled out was the difference between recognizing the claim made by non-Amish and non-scholars that adolescent misbehavior was more or less condoned by the Amish -- essentially institutionalized; sensationalized accounts like "Devil's Playground" and "Amish in the City" would I think sufficiently document the "widespread" characterization, and it would be supported by a little googling. The solution was to make the question about the normative quality of the "suspension of rules" the lead-in to the article. An alternative would be to have perhaps a single sentence lead-in the simply states that "rumspringa" is a term used in some AMish comunities to refer to adolescence (Nolt and others are very clear that the term is not universal among the Amish).  Then subsections could treat the use of this term in folklore concerning the Amish. At this point, maybe only the phrase -- "During this period, rules may be relaxed and some misbehavior is tolerated" -- tends that way; maybe it needs to go, maybe it needs to be modified with something like "as is the case in many societies." DavidOaks 15:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I'm seeing better what you were getting at. It's tempting with a topic like this to emphasize what is popular culture about the term instead of emphasizing that the popular view is only a minority phenomenon and opinion and from the vantage point of the Amish, not characteristic of their culture. So we have an opportunity to be more neutral here than emphasize the popularized account. Sounds good to me. I'll give some more thought to the phrasing. I did find also in Shachtman citations for the Amish viewpoint but he downplays them, perhaps to emphasize the more interesting, minority phenomenon that is not really about being Amish - just being teenagers in a modern world. I like you're idea to lead with the basic term, then have a section on the Amish internal view then a section about the popularized depiction then how about a section on the variations within the different communities? We have a fair number of citations and details on the variation, and I think that would also help neutralize the popularizing. Owlmonkey 21:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've made some significant edits to the proposed intro above. Would love to hear what everyone thinks. Owlmonkey 08:37, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Cleaned Up Now?
OK, after the edits of the last year, are we feeling like this article should have the cleanup tag removed finally? Is there additional major work that needs to be done or should we remove the tag and let the page evolve over time without an entry in the cleanup list? Owlmonkey 02:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Two weeks have now passed, removing cleanup tag. Owlmonkey 21:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry chap, I think there's a paragraph repeated in two different sections. I was about to introduce a cleanup tag. :)--Thecurran (talk) 08:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

At the end of "Rumspringa in popular culture" paragraph the last sentence states "ABC showed a doctumentary about rumspringa titled the "outsiders" it aired Tuesday june 24." This needs a specific year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.133.15 (talk) 06:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

fixed "outsiders" date —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.133.15 (talk) 06:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Stickfigure's edits
Reverted Stick figure's edits, because very material facts of authorship which have been present since the beginning of the article have been changed without explanation or source, which often signals vandalism. However, this editor seems to know a lot about the film's director, so these may have been totally legit edits that just need citation. DavidOaks (talk) 17:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not used to edit wikis, but as a native German (with poor English, sorry) let me just say a word to the meaning of "rumspringen", which is common short use for herumspringen. It does not only refer to "around", but my also refer to a bad behavior which annoys you, so you say to this person with the bad behavior: "Ich lass nicht so mit mir rumspringen", in English: "I don't let you let you longer deal with me in that bad way".

I hope this may be help to improve your article; for further questions you may mail me at: 2009@kheck.info.

Klaus Heck Aachen, Germany —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.79.67.231 (talk) 13:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Inappropriate footnote?
The first footnote, "please do not 'correct' either the meaning or the pronunciation to standard German", is something that belongs here in the Talk page, not in the article. No article should be telling readers what and what not to do. A footnote explaining the difference between the word and the German word it derives from would be more appropriate, thugh you would need a citation. I am taking the liberty of removing the footnote. Matt Thorn (talk) 01:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * My error -- meant to hit the "hidden comment" button and got the "ref." DavidOaks (talk) 01:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction
The Popularized View section states that Amish adolescents are never formally released from the rules laid out by the Ordnung. However, the following section, Leaving the Community, states that the adolescents are essentially free to experiment. The latter has been added without a citation, but it might be right. One of these needs to be clarified and expanded on and the other should likely be deleted. Are there any experts out there who can decide which one is right? 174.0.56.57 (talk) 01:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't see the contradiciton. No such phrase as "the adolescents are essentially free to experiment" occurs. They are free to leave the community, but are subject to their parents' authority as long as they remain (the article notes that there is variation in the strictness of parental enforcement). DavidOaks (talk) 02:30, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

faulty translation: springen (german) means jump in english
wonder who came up with that wrong translation of the "springen" term (german). it never meant anything other than jump, leap, bounce etc.. but clearly never such thing as "running". linkage: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&search=springen Suggestednickname (talk) 11:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The lead says that it's "derived from the Pennsylvania German term for 'running around'" (rather than "from the German term"), so I assume this is a local dialect word. Would be good to have a clear source, though. --McGeddon (talk) 11:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * In fact, the etymology section goes on to say that "In Swiss German as in some German dialects, springe however does - besides meaning "to jump" - also mean 'to run'." Again, an actual source would be good here, but I hope this explains the confusion. --McGeddon (talk) 11:53, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Think of it similarly to the English "bouncing off the wall". What does this describe? Are people literally bouncing off actual walls? Kar98 (talk) 00:21, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * springen translated as "run" is South German dialect (Franconian, Alemannic German). Regards, • Certh 45a.svg • hugarheimur 17:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Can Someone Check the Source for This?
This statement in the lead:

 'a youth who dares to attend one of these events before reaching the age of sixteen might be forcefed warm milk from a spoon, as a good-natured reminder to observe the lines of status'

sounds absurdly retarded. I would remove it on the assumption it was some form of lighthearted vandalism if amish tradition wasn't so peculiar. Either way, someone really should confirm this with the cited source. --K10wnsta (talk) 08:22, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You have WP:RS including page number. Depending on the holdings of your local library, and especially if you live in a town with a university, you can look it up yourself. Refusal to believe a thing is not by itself a reason to delete, though an editor might wish to place a confirmation here for the benefit of others who find the statement dubious (though to tell the truth, I have no idea what's doubtful about this very typical folk custom). I do agree it's a level of detail inappropriate to the more general purposes of the lead, and have moved it down into the body of the article. DavidOaks (talk) 13:47, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's the same scholar making the same observation online; he refers to it by the sociological category "boundary maintenance mechanism" DavidOaks (talk) 23:42, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * BTW, I do want to clarify that while deletion would not be called-for, the double-checking of things that sound weird is exactly what we need to do to keep the encyclopedia on track -- props to K1Ownsta. 02:24, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Rumschpringa
Massgebend (standard form) is how the Amish themselves spell it. In Hochdeutch sp is pronounced like Englisg  shp while in  northern Low German, and, for example the Bremen and  Hamburg dialects, it schp pronounced sp - a common  anecdote is Die Hamburger stolpern über einen spitzen Stein -all pronounces s : The Hamburgers trip  over a sharp (or pointed)  stone. --Kudpung (talk) 07:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Citation tag clutter
In about a week, without objection, I will be changing citation format away from the precious, distracting, and quaint inlining of citation page numbers[1]:182-199,802 to the more[2] usual[3] followed by:
 * 1. Smith, John A. (full citation) (no page numbers mentioned)
 * 2. Smith, John A. (full citation), pp. 182-199, 802
 * 3. Smith, p. 282

--Lexein (talk) 14:15, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

On TV
In plain sight 04x06 - "Something A-mish" Sex Drive (2008) ---> "an Amish community"

Assessment
As per WP:COUNCIL/AFAQ, if an article fails one of the 6 itemized B criteria, it could be a C. I believe this articles lead is insuficcient to summarize the article, and had already been tagged as such,

This article contains rather substantial sections of content which are unreferenced or inadequately referenced. I see only one refernce citation in the entire "Variations" section. In general, we prefer having at least one, preferably two, citations per paragraph, and from multiple sources as well. The "Etymology" section contains no clear reference citations. Much of the "Popular culture" section is unreferenced. This is particularly problematic because of the length such sections can sometimes get to be. Each of these items should be individually referenced to something other than the pop culture entity itself, to establish that they are sufficiently notable for inclusion. Lastly, and this is admittedly a minor point, the refernce style is at least to my eyes not necessarily clearly transparent. I think some of the early reference citations, which have additional numbers after the citation itself, are referring to the individual pages in the book in question. But I do not see that particular style included in WP:CITE, possibly/probably for the reason of lack of clarity.

Adding additional citations and maybe getting the existing ones to adhere to guidelines, and expanding the lead to better summarize, might well be sufficient to bring it up to B. There may still be concerns about the amount of weight given the popular culture section, but that is a fairly frequent question and more or less one which would probably benefit from additional opinions. John Carter (talk) 14:34, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Etymology
Rumspringa, "running around" in Pennsylvania Dutch or, more accurately, Pennsylvania German (as the term "Dutch" used in this context is a variant of the original word deutsch: German) is a noun closely related to the Standard German verb herumspringen meaning "to jump or hop around or about".

"Rumspringa" isn't merely "closely related": it is a dialect form of the identical word. All verbs in German can function as nouns merely by capitalizing the infinitive. Again, the word for this type of "close relationship" is "identity." The parenthetical statement about "Dutch" and German is unnecessary here.

''The Standard German term is a portmanteau of the adverb herum (literally: here (her) about (um)) which means "around" or "around here" and the verb springen which means "to jump" or "to skip". However, in Swiss German as in some other German dialects, springen does — besides meaning "to jump" — also mean "to run".''

If this is the case, then the number of portmanteaux verbs in German is legion. Rather, it is simply a separable prefix that can be added to any verb of motion or stasis: rumsitzen, rumlaufen, rumlauern, rumblödeln, whatever. The component parts may mean "here" in the sense of being close to the speaker and "um" around, but "herum" indicates random motion within a confined space or just "hanging about." Alemannic dialects indeed use "springa" for "to run" and "gumpa" for "to jump, hop." However, the meaning "to run" is only relevant if one wishes to force this word into the English "running around." The image almost any German speaker would see when hearing "Rumspringen" is small animals gamboling about. Since the Amish are primarily an agricultural community, could this possibly be more relevant than an amateurish attempt at etymology?

''In modern Standard German "to skip" ordinarily would be translated with the verb hüpfen, which literally means "to hop". This term/concept also is used as a separable prefix verb, i.e., rumspringen/er springt rum.''

Well, it's "hupfen" or "hüpfen" in some areas, but how is this the least bit relevant? And now we get the explanation of a separable prefix verb.

''The Pennsylvania German noun Rumspringa was derived by contracting the first component of the Standard German term herum to 'rum and converting the word ending to the Pennsylvania German noun form "a". Such dropping or swallowing of an initial sound (in this case the first two letters he of the first syllable here being dropped to form the contraction 'rum) occurs widely both in colloquial Pennsylvania German as well as many other German dialects, and does not alter the meaning of the prefix/term in any way.''

'rum is the standard contracted form of "herum" used in casual spoken German everywhere. It is not a peculiarity of Pennsylvania German. And is it necessary to explain that a contraction — in any language — doesn't change the meaning? The Standard High German infinitive ending is "-en", which becomes an "a" or "e" in every Southern German dialect from Switzerland, Baden, and Swabia and into Bavaria and Austria. It is not a "noun" ending per se.

Apart from Rumspringa's relationship to the Standard German term herumspringen, it also bears close resemblance to the standard Dutch verb rondspringen which likewise is translated as "jumping around".

How thoughtful to include Dutch! But why not Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, and Frisian as well? Again, this is totally irrelevant. --Janko (talk) 02:46, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Now that I think about it, this entire section could be deleted. All relevant information is already included in the brief etymology at the beginning of the article.--Janko (talk) 03:05, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

 * I completely agree. --Peter Putzer (talk) 08:25, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation?
Why is the pronunciation tagged as "dubious--discuss"?

Is it because the accent is placed on the second rather than the first syllable?

The online OED, in an article dervied from the OED 2011 third edition, give the English pronunciations as: Brit. /ˈruːmʃprɪŋə/, U.S. /ˈrumˌʃprɪŋə/, /ˈrumˌsprɪŋə/

The Pa. Dutch pronunciation that is given, [rʊmˈʃprɪŋə], seems fine to me (a student of the dialect), except for the placement of the accent, which should normally be on the first syllable.

Gambaguru (talk) 09:41, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Hang on a sec: I get it now! There are two pronunciations, identified as "Pennsylvania German" and "Pennsylvania Dutch" respectively -- but those are two names for the same language. Dubious, indeed!

The second pronunciation is correct apart from the accent, as I noted above, due allowance being made for slight regional variation in vowel quality. And it would be well to add an English pronunciation, too.

Gambaguru (talk) 09:52, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I've taken the liberty of removing the dodgy "Pennsylvania German" pronunciation and relabelling the "Pennsylvania Dutch" one as "Pennsylvania German". I wonder about the stress too, but I only know standard German, so for all I know it might be different in dialect. Or it might just be a confusion over where the stress mark goes in relation to the syllable - in IPA it goes before, but the pronunciation notation used in some US dictionaries puts stress marks after the syllable. Hairy Dude (talk) 20:46, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Rumspringa


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title: User talk:Rik Offenberger


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Talk:Dongan Hills, Staten Island

Berry Houses vs. South Beach Houses
According to the Columbia Gazetteer of North America, 2000 edition, both Dongan Hills and South Beach are listed as being at 40°35' North latitude. However, the Berry Houses are located at the extreme southern edge of Dongan Hills, near the border with Grant City, while the South Beach housing project is situated more or less in the center of that neighborhood, nowhere near the boundary between South Beach and Midland Beach. Therefore the Berry Houses would appear to be the southernmost public housing project on Staten Island; in any event, in colloquial usage among island residents, a locality whose nearest Staten Island Railway station is further away from St. George is considered further "south" — and the closest train station to the South Beach houses would be either the Grasmere or Old Town station, both of these being closer to the St. George station than the Jefferson Avenue station, which is the one closest to the Berry Houses.

Significant?
Is this material significant to have in the article? RJFJR (talk) 15:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

In the late 1920s, a telephone exchange was connected bearing the neighborhood's name, but served many other East Shore communities besides Dongan Hills itself, and the territory this exchange covered has since become virtually coterminous with what is popularly called the East Shore by many if not all island geographers. In December 1930 the numeral "6" was added to the exchange name, making it Dongan Hills 6, and in 1954 a second exchange — Dongan Hills 1 — was added; however the following year both exchanges were abolished, pursuant to the Bell System's newly-adopted policy of discouraging the use of exchange names consisting of two words, mainly because it was believed that the first letters in each word of such names were often being dialed instead of the first two letters in the first word, leading to wrong numbers being reached.

Dongan Hills vs. Garretson's
Just when was Garretson's renamed as Dongan Hills? Because the reference being used shows no evidence of when the name of the community was changed. -User:DanTD (talk) 00:30, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't know when yet. I am looking. However, I did provide some additional information.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 01:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dongan Hills, Staten Island