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Mezzanine (album)

Mezzanine is the third studio album by English electronic music group Massive Attack, released on 20 April 1998 by Circa and Virgin Records. For the album, the group began to explore a darker aesthetic, and focused on a more atmospheric style influenced by British post-punk, industrial music, hip hop and dub music.

Mezzanine topped the charts in the United Kingdom, Australia, Ireland, and New Zealand, becoming the group's most commercially successful album to date. It has appeared on multiple "best albums" lists, and is now widely regarded as one of the greatest albums of the 1990s. The album spawned four singles, "Risingson", "Teardrop", "Angel" and "Inertia Creeps", which also variously charted in the United Kingdom.

Background and recording
Mezzanine was conceptualised by lead Massive Attack member Robert Del Naja in 1997, who wanted to focus on exploring a darker audiovisual aesthetic with distinct influences. The production of the album was a stressful process; with tensions arising, it led to disagreements that almost split the group, including discouragement from Andrew Vowles. As a demonstration of the project's sound, Del Naja initially produced instrumental demos sampling songs by British post-punk bands such as Wire and Gang of Four, who had been familiar to him as artists he had enjoyed as a teenager. Grant Marshall supported this direction as he wanted to depart from the "urban soul" of their previous album, Protection, but Vowles was sceptical.

The sessions continued with Vowles and Marshall working on bass and drum loops, while Del Naja continued to produce demos. The album was originally set to be released in December 1997, but was delayed by four months, with Del Naja spending most of the time in the studio "making tracks, tearing them apart, f***ing [sic] them up, panicking, then starting again." Before the album's release, the group released "Superpredators", a non-album song extensively sampling Siouxsie and the Banshees' song "Metal Postcard", for the soundtrack to the 1997 film The Jackal; the track was subsequently included on the Japanese version of Mezzanine.

Andrew "Mushroom" Vowles left the group soon after the album's release, due to creative conflicts, while reggae artist and Massive Attack collaborator Horace Andy contributed to the album on multiple songs. The album's working title was Damaged Goods, which was the name of Gang of Four's 1978 debut single.

The cover art depicts a black stag beetle on a white background, photographed by Nick Knight at the Natural History Museum in London.

Composition
Mezzanine has been described as a trip hop and electronica album with moods of "dark claustrophobia" and melancholy. Musically, the album is a major departure from the jazzy and laidback sound of the first two albums, Blue Lines and Protection, invoking the dark undercurrents which had previously only been vaguely present in the group's music. The album's textured and deep tone relies heavily on abstract and ambient sounds, heavy emphasis on bass, and influences from alternative rock.

Similar to their previous albums, several songs use one or more samples, which range from artists typically sampled in trip hop such as Isaac Hayes and various drum breaks, to bands like the Cure and the Velvet Underground. In particular, "Inertia Creeps" samples Turkish çiftetelli music which Del Naja recorded after partying in Istanbul, with his recorded tape subsequently becoming the rhythmic base for the song. In 1998, Manfred Mann sued Massive Attack for unauthorised use of a sample of the song "Tribute" from Manfred Mann's Earth Band's eponymous 1972 album, used on "Black Milk". The song has subsequently appeared as "Black Melt" on later releases and at live performances, with the sample removed. Later digital editions of Mezzanine have retained the original song, with Mann being added to the songwriting credits.

Reception
Mezzanine entered the UK Albums Chart at number one, and was certified platinum by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) on 4 September 1998 and then double platinum on 22 July 2013. However, it failed to share the same success in North America, peaking at number 60 on the Billboard 200 and number 51 on the Canadian Albums Chart.

The album received significant critical acclaim, which praised the collective's new sound. Rolling Stone's Barney Hoskyns, although praising the album, pointed to its flaws: "Sometimes rhythm and texture are explored at the expense of memorable tunes, and the absence of the bizarre Tricky [...] only highlights the flat, monotonous rapping of the group's 3-D." Robert Christgau of The Village Voice gave the album a two-star honorable mention rating and selected "Risingson" and "Man Next Door" as highlights.

John Bush of AllMusic had positive words for the album's song "Inertia Creeps", saying it "could well be the highlight, another feature for just the core threesome. With eerie atmospherics, fuzz-tone guitars, and a wealth of effects, the song could well be the best production from the best team of producers the electronic world had ever seen."

Years after the album was released, it was placed on several best-of lists in the UK and the United States. In 2000, Q magazine placed Mezzanine at number 15 on its list of "The 100 Greatest British Albums Ever". In 2013, it was placed at 215 on NME's list of "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time". In 2003, the album was ranked number 412 on Rolling Stone magazine's list of "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time", and while it was not included in the 2012 update of the list, it reentered the 2020 update ranked at number 383.

By April 2000, the album had sold 2.5 million copies worldwide. As of February 2010, it had sold 560,000 copies in the United States, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

Mezzanine DNA
On the 20th anniversary of Mezzanine release, the record was encoded into synthetic DNA—a first for an album. The project was in collaboration with TurboBeads Labs in Switzerland; the digital audio of the album was stored in the form of genetic information. The audio was then compressed using Opus, coded in DNA molecules—with 920,000 short DNA strands containing all the data—and then poured into 5,000 tiny glass beads.

20th anniversary reissue
The album was remastered and reissued for its 20th anniversary. The two-CD anniversary edition was released on 23 August 2019, and comes with a bonus disc of previously unreleased dub mixes by Mad Professor, which were originally intended to be released on a Mezzanine remix album. A triple-LP vinyl version was also slated to be released; initially delayed from its proposed release date, the triple-LP version was eventually canceled altogether.

In lieu of the vinyl reissue, the Mad Professor remixes were released as a pink-coloured 12-inch vinyl single entitled Massive Attack v Mad Professor Part II (Mezzanine Remix Tapes '98) on 20 September 2019.

The Mad Professor remixes include "Metal Banshee" (an unreleased dub version of "Superpredators", which was a reworked cover of "Metal Postcard" originally by Siouxsie and the Banshees), and "Wire", a track recorded for the soundtrack to the film Welcome to Sarajevo.

Sample credits

 * "Risingson" contains a sample of "I Found a Reason" by the Velvet Underground.
 * "Exchange" and "(Exchange)" contain samples of "Our Day Will Come" by Isaac Hayes.
 * "Man Next Door" contains a sample of "10:15 Saturday Night" by the Cure, as well as an uncredited sample of Led Zeppellin's version of "When the Levee Breaks".

Personnel
Credits adapted from the liner notes of Mezzanine.

Massive Attack

 * Robert Del Naja – arrangements, vocals, programming, keyboards, samples
 * Grant Marshall – arrangements, vocals, programming, keyboards, samples
 * Andrew Vowles – arrangements, programming, keyboards, samples

Additional musicians

 * Neil Davidge – arrangements, programming, keyboards, samples
 * Horace Andy – vocals
 * Elizabeth Fraser – vocals
 * Sara Jay Hawley – vocals
 * Angelo Bruschini – guitars
 * Jon Harris, Bob Locke, Winston Blissett – bass guitars
 * Andy Gangadeen – drums
 * Dave Jenkins, Michael Timothy – additional keyboards

Technical

 * Massive Attack – production
 * Neil Davidge – production
 * Jan Kybert – Pro Tools
 * Lee Shepherd – engineering
 * Mark "Spike" Stent – mixing
 * Jan Kybert – mixing assistance
 * P-Dub – mixing assistance
 * Tim Young – editing

Artwork

 * Nick Knight – photography
 * Tom Hingston – art direction, design
 * Robert Del Naja – art direction, design

title: Mezzanine (album)


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(148209) 2000 CR105

 is a trans-Neptunian object and the tenth-most-distant known object in the Solar System. Considered a detached object, it orbits the Sun in a highly eccentric orbit every 3,305 years at an average distance of 222 astronomical units (AU).

Description
Mike Brown's website lists it as a possible dwarf planet with a diameter of 328 km based on an assumed albedo of 0.04. The albedo is expected to be low because the object has a blue (neutral) color. However, if the albedo is higher, the object could easily be half that size.

and Sedna differ from scattered-disc objects in that they are not within the gravitational influence of the planet Neptune even at their perihelion distances (closest approaches to the Sun). It is something of a mystery as to how these objects came to be in their current, far-flung orbits. Several hypotheses have been put forward:
 * They were pulled from their original positions by a passing star.
 * They were pulled from their original positions by a very distant, and as-yet-undiscovered (albeit unlikely), giant planet.
 * They were pulled from their original positions by an undiscovered companion star orbiting the Sun such as Nemesis.
 * They were captured from another planetary system during a close encounter early in the Sun's history. According to Kenyon and Bromley, there is a 15% probability that a star like the Sun had an early close encounter and a 1% probability that outer planetary exchanges would have happened. is estimated to be 2–3 times more likely to be a captured planetary object than Sedna.

is the first object discovered in the Solar System to have a semi-major axis exceeding 150 AU, a perihelion beyond Neptune, and an argument of perihelion of $0.771$. It is one of eleven objects known with a semi-major axis greater than 100 AU and perihelion beyond 42 AU. It may be influenced by Planet Nine.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: (148209) 2000 CR105


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Northern Secondary School

Northern Secondary School is a public high school in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. It teaches grades 9 through 12. It is a part of the Toronto District School Board (TDSB). Prior to Amalgamation of Toronto in 1998, it was within the Toronto Board of Education (TBE). The closest TTC subway station is Eglinton.

Northern has long-standing rivalries with nearby high-school North Toronto Collegiate Institute and also with Central Technical School, Lawrence Park Collegiate Institute, York Mills Collegiate Institute and Leaside High School.

History
Founded in 1930, it was originally known as Northern Vocational School, until the twenty-fifth anniversary when the name was changed to Northern Technical-Commercial, which lasted for three years until the present name, Northern Secondary School, came into use because a definite district had been assigned for matriculation students.

Northern was the first Ontario school to have a student council. The school is a pilot site of a Toronto Police Service program that places on-duty police officers in schools.

On May 13, 2016 it was alleged that a bomb was planted on the premises and the school was shut down to investigate. No explosive devices were found.

Along with all other public schools in Ontario, Northern Secondary was closed for in-person learning at various points during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Architecture
Northern Secondary is built in the Collegiate Gothic style, has a floor space of about 121,317 square feet and contains one hundred and fifteen rooms. C.E.C. Dyson was the school's original architect. Although little is known about him, he was the school board's architect from 1921 until 1949. Northern is known for the grotesques which exist on the exterior, throughout the entrance foyer and inside the auditorium.

Further evidence of the Gothic Collegiate style can be found in the vaulted ceilings of the hallways, and the arched doorways and windows featured throughout the building. As stated on a plaque inside the main entrance, during the 60s a major addition was built which significantly altered the rear of the school. These renovations changed little about the original parts of the building. Although once grand, over the decades, the facility has fallen into considerable disrepair and is in need of extensive renovation.

Academics
Northern's gifted program / enriched program and its comprehensive range of elective courses, including a diverse art department, bring students in from across the city. The school runs a selective admissions process, as well as optional attendance lotteries. There is a large variety of gifted courses available at all grade levels and AP courses available at the grade 11 and 12 levels.

Each year, Northern's students obtain over $1 million in university scholarships.

Northern's students have won numerous national & international awards in multiple academic disciplines. These include the NASA space settlement competition, the World Debates at Oxford, England, and the Canadian Association of Physicists national contest. Northern debaters are also the current reigning OSDU provincial debate championships.

The school has over 50 active clubs, associations and committees, as well as over 120 teachers, resulting in a 15 to 1 student teacher ratio.

Over 25% of the school’s students have special learning needs and therefore are on an individual education plan.

Sports
The school has over 50 varsity athletic teams. Northern's football team, the Red Knights, have won numerous titles in Toronto's high school league (including two Metro Bowls, and the first Toronto Bowl). A number of top players have gone on to join the Canadian Football League.

Numerous alumni of the school have also gone on to play in the National Hockey League, the Greek Basket League, Major League Soccer, the Israeli Premier League, the as well as the Rugby World Cup.

In popular culture
The school has been used as a location for several films including Carrie (2013 film), as well as Jarvis Collegiate Institute, and Resident Evil: Apocalypse, which were filmed inside the school. The academic decathlon scene of Billy Madison was filmed in the school's auditorium. The 2009 documentary Fight for the Planet was also filmed at the school.

Numerous commercials have also been filmed on the school's premises.

Charity
Northern has a long history of supporting national & international charities, with over 40 years of participation in the United Way fundraisers for poverty alleviation. The school has been the top fundraiser amongst Toronto high schools for a number of years.

Notable alumni and staff
Alumni of the school include one Academy Award winner, a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, holders of the Order of Canada, as well as Grey Cup and Stanley Cup champions, a Spitfire pilot who played a key role in an escape from a German prison camp by Allied airmen which is remembered today as "The Great Escape", and a prominent Hebrew Bible scholar. Painter Lawren P. Harris taught at then Northern Vocational.

title: Northern Secondary School


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Talk:Jentil

[Untitled]
I don't think the article is any stub. Few more can be said abut the Jentilak, unless you want to quote the legends in its integrity or enter in speculations on their meaning: mostly those that consider the Jentilak (meaning gentiles) to be a mythification of pre-Christian Basques themselves. But that would be just a sidenote.

Sugaar. This could be just another pseudo racial centrism typical of the last generations of basques.But again basques are humans themselves and invented all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.218.39.167 (talk) 01:26, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Fact versus fiction
Please try to seperate fact and fiction a tad more cleary, it's a bit confusing the way it is now. Shinobu (talk) 12:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

 * It's all fiction: it's a legend, like the Bible or Amateratsu, you know. --Sugaar (talk) 12:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Though I have to admit that Gerbrant has cleaned up some intrusive junk in the short time between the above two comments (just noticed). Thumbs up for Gerbrant. --Sugaar (talk) 12:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jentil


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Nectar in a Sieve

Nectar in a Sieve is a 1954 novel by Kamala Markandaya. The book is set in India during a period of intense urban development and is the chronicle of the marriage between Rukmani, youngest daughter of a village headman, and Nathan, a tenant farmer. The story is told in the first person by Rukmani, beginning from her arranged marriage to Nathan at the age of 12 to his death many years later.

Title
The title of the novel is taken from the 1825 poem "Work Without Hope", by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. An excerpt from the poem is the epigraph of the novel:

 * Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve,
 * And hope without an object cannot live.

In the novel, Rukmani comments, "Change I had known before, and it had been gradual. But the change that now came into my life, into all our lives, blasting its way into our village, seemed wrought in the twinkling of an eye."

Plot introduction
Rukmani and Nathan love each other and their marriage begins in relative peace and plenty. When a large tannery is built in the neighboring village, it begins insidiously destroying their lives. As the tannery grows larger and more prosperous, Rukmani and Nathan struggle to feed their children and to pay the rent on the land that gives them life. Although matters continue to worsen, they quietly resign themselves to ever-increasing hardships—flood, famine, even death—and cling to their hopes for a better future.

Dr. Kennington, or "Kenny", an itinerant English doctor, is an important presence in the novel. Although Rukmani's fatalistic attitude toward hardship exasperates him, he feels compassion for her and helps her when he can. At the end, Rukmani goes to live with her youngest son, now a doctor at the hospital Kenny has built.

Throughout the novel, Rukmani is faced with struggle after struggle with no indication that her circumstances will improve. Each time her situation worsens, she endures quietly, holding on to the hope that things will soon be better.

Plot summary
Rukmani, an old woman, reflects on her life. The educated daughter of a village headman fallen on hard times, she is married at the age of 12 to Nathan, a tenant farmer. Nathan treats her with kindness and respect as she learns the chores her new life requires. Within a year they have a beautiful daughter, Ira, and good rice harvests. During the next six years, Rukmani does not conceive. Troubled that she cannot produce a son for Nathan, Rukmani visits her ill mother and there meets Kenny, a foreign doctor. He treats her infertility without Nathan's knowledge. In quick succession, Rukmani bears five sons. With each birth, however, the family has a little less to eat. When a tannery is built nearby, unpleasant changes come to village life. Rukmani's two oldest sons eventually work there. They help the family a great deal with their wages but are eventually dismissed for being ringleaders in a labor strike.

The year they arrange a good marriage for Ira, monsoon rains destroy their crops. Rukmani sacrifices her savings to buy food for the family. Ira's husband returns Ira to her parents’ home because she is barren. Again Rukmani turns to Kenny without her husband's knowledge, this time to help Ira conceive. His treatments are too late, however, since Ira's husband has taken another woman. Rukmani becomes pregnant again and bears her last son, Kuti. Caring for Kuti lifts Ira out of her depression and despair until the crops fail from drought and the family once again goes hungry. They sell most of their possessions just to pay half of what they owe the landowner for their lease. Reduced to foraging for roots and leaves, the family begins to weaken and starve. Kenny secures a servant's position in the city for Rukmani's third son. Rukmani's fourth son is killed stealing a calfskin from the tannery. Kuti suffers the most from hunger, and Ira prostitutes herself to feed him. Despite her efforts, he dies. A good rice harvest arrives too late to save Rukmani's sons.

Kenny returns from one of his long absences with money raised to build a hospital in the village. He offers to train Rukmani's remaining son, Selvam, as his assistant. Some villagers speculate that Kenny is kind to Rukmani because they have an illicit relationship. Kunthi, a neighborhood wife who became a prostitute, spreads this rumor out of spite. When they were both young, Nathan fathered Kunthi's two sons. Kunthi uses this as leverage over them until Rukmani learns the truth and forgives Nathan. Now, as Nathan nears fifty, he has no sons left to work the land. He suffers from rheumatism and debilitating fevers. Rukmani and Ira try to help, but they are not strong enough. Ira has a baby to care for, an albino boy conceived in prostitution but loved nonetheless. The family experiences its greatest loss when the land agent tells Nathan and Rukmani their land has been sold to the despised tannery. No one else will lease land to a man as old and ill as Nathan, and Rukmani and Nathan must leave their home of 30 years to live with to their son Murugan in the city. They leave Ira and their grandchild under Selvam's care.

Their possessions reduced to the few bundles they carry, Nathan and Rukmani try to find Murugan in the city. They rest one night at a temple, where thieves steal their bundles and money. A leprous street urchin named Puli helps them find the home of Kenny's doctor friend. They learn that Murugan has not worked there for the past two years and that he left the position for better wages at the Collector's house. At the Collector's, Murugan's wife informs them that Murugan has deserted her. Her older boy, their grandson, is thin with hunger. Her starving baby is too little to be Murugan's son. Rukmani sees that she and Nathan cannot impose upon their daughter-in-law. They return to the temple, where food is distributed each night to the destitute.

Rukmani and Nathan dream of home but have no means to make the trip. Rukmani tries to get work as a letter reader but earns only enough to buy rice cakes. Puli takes them to a stone quarry where there is better-paying work. He helps them learn to break stones, and they come to rely on him. They entrust him with their earnings, and, as they save, they begin to hope. One evening, Rukmani splurges on extra food and toys for Puli and her grandson. When she returns to Nathan at the temple, she expects him to be angry, but instead he is violently ill. During a week of monsoon rains, Nathan continues to work in the quarry despite his fevers and chills. One evening, after she gets paid, Rukmani begins to plan for a cart to take them home. Hurrying to catch up with Nathan, she finds him collapsed in the mud in the street. Kind strangers help carry him to the temple, where he dies in her arms after reminding her of their happiness together. After his death, Rukmani rashly promises Puli his health if he returns to the country with her, a promise Kenny and Selvam will help her keep. She introduces Puli to Selvam and Ira as the son she and Nathan adopted while they were away. Demonstrating hope and compassion, Ira hastens to prepare a meal for Puli, and Selvam promises his mother they will manage.

title: Nectar in a Sieve


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of incidents famously considered great blunders

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was same result as the original vote (Votes for deletion/List of the Great Boners of all time): no consensus --cesarb 22:43, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

List of incidents famously considered great blunders, formerly List of the Great Boners of all time
THIS IS A REVOTE of Votes for deletion/List of the Great Boners of all time. The article has been hugely rewritten, and two people have called for a revote. The conditions of the revote semi-policy have thus been fully met. Please recast your votes. Master Thief Garrett 21:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC) There is NO such thing as a revote semi-policy, note that your votes here may or may not be counted when this mess is resolved. Master Thief Garrett 00:09, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but as far as I know, there is no revote semi-policy. --cesarb 21:52, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Revotes on Vfd... orrr, wait, is that not semi-policy?!? ....uh-oh... ah well, what is done is done I guess... Master Thief Garrett 21:59, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Notice that page was created by your friend Pioneer-12... --cesarb 22:11, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm considering taking this whole thing to Requests for Comment. I haven't seen shenenigans like this since Florida in 2000.  Moncrief 22:27, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * I have noticed that now, and I would have not done so had I known that... sigh... I just assumed he'd just happend to find a cool new idea that was being considered as policy that fitted our voting needs perfectly. As it is, many could claim he created that page just to get a revote... I don't really know... Master Thief Garrett 22:29, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I am deeply sorry if I have inconvenienced people. Now while I won't exactly say Pioneer "decieved" me, as I could have checked the author(s) of the page, he did not say that he had only just created it himself. Again, I AM very sorry. Master Thief Garrett 22:29, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, what a mess this is. I never intended for this page to be created. See my statement here. MTG, thank you for trying. I thought that I had clearly indicated that "Revotes on Vfd" was just a proposal and that I did not intend it to be used, but clearly my wording was unclear. My bad. - Pioneer-12 03:54, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * nah, my bad too for actually acting on your ambiguities! But ultimately I think we should stop using this page, go back to the other one, continue the vote as if nothing had happened, and see what comes of it... Master Thief Garrett 04:02, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Would it be sensible to ask an admin to just put this page in an archive or something, since we're the ones responsible, and we both think it's a bad idea? - Pioneer-12 04:10, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know how you go about getting an admin/sysop to help, but I think it's a good idea to. There are still people adding votes to this page, but most are probably angry revotes and a couple of new ones... Master Thief Garrett 04:26, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I considered putting this page itself on VfD, but I figured it would just make things worse. android↔talk 04:29, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * A voting for deletion about a vote for deleton about a revote on a vote for deletion?!?--I had to reread this line about three times to make sure it read right. That line alone makes it sound bad and confusing. Thank goodness you didn't! Master Thief Garrett 06:36, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we should nominate this page for Vfd just for the inherent absurdity of the idea. :-) After all, this page IS unencyclopedic and inherently POV. - Pioneer-12 08:26, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. Inherently and unavoidably POV. Moncrief 21:50, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. This list is far too widespread and all-encompassing--it will bloat like there's no tomorrow. Also, it will turn into a POV battleground--how many days do you think we have until someone inserts the Iraq war or the founding of Israel? This topic is loosely encyclopedic at best--there's no call for it, and the numerous problems of this article will just undermine the whole effort. Meelar (talk) 22:08, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Re: "bloat" - Why should a large potential for expansion be a negative thing? If the list ever gets too long, it can be divided by subtopic. Re: POV battleground - The topic is definitely a magnet for controversy. But I maintain that "controversial" is no reason to disqualify an article. Otherwise we could justify deleting abortion and the Iraq War and stem cell research and scores of other useful articles. So far, the list seems to be devloping nicely.... there have been several attempts at stupid additions to the blunders list, but these have been quickly fixed. And I'm amazed and impressed that a non-biased section on blunders in politics has already been added to the article. Wikipedia repeatedly impresses with with it's ability to find NPOV on the most controversial of topics, even if it can be, at times, a long hard road getting there. - Pioneer-12 17:12, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete, and note that I've now "had to" vote three times to delete this silly article. Rhobite 22:26, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Abstain. No policy exists for a revote, and there is no reason to peform one here. This page should be deleted. By spreading this discussion out across more than one page, we're just creating a huge headache for whomever closes the discussion out. It's bad enough on the original page. android↔talk 22:28, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Abstain. No policy for a revote. --Carnildo 22:41, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Now I'm really angry. There is no such thing as a "re-vote" on a VfD. If an article has changed, the right thing to do is simply to point out in a conspicuous comment that the article has been improved, and urge those who wish to change their votes do so. Given that the criterion for deletion is "rough consensus," the customary criterion is a 2/3 vote, and the acting sysop can exercise judgement, it is not at all hard to garner enough support to keep an improved article. It happens all the time. The VfD 5-day period is deliberately set long to to allow for this, and in practice the backlog these days is so long that even more time is available This "re-vote" is not much different from someone, without consensus, just deciding to delete all of the existing votes. It's easy enough to get an article kept. We don't need to add new policy to allow parliamentary maneuvering. If this "re-vote" is accepted as valid, count me as a "delete." (If, on the other hand, it is ignored and the previous, valid set of votes is considered, then my previous vote stands). Dpbsmith (talk) 22:43, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * ...sigh... I am so very, very sorry... Master Thief Garrett 23:33, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Should we put an RFC on Pioneer-12 for creating a policy proposal and adding instruction creep in order to possibly circumvent VfD? Zzyzx11 | Talk 22:58, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll vote "yes" to that. Moncrief 23:01, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Despite making me look like the biggest idiot I've been in quite a while, I'm not really sure if he had poor intentions behind it... sigh... I will have to also vote "yes"... Master Thief Garrett 23:33, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't feel an RfC is really necessary, but will certify if one is made. android↔talk 23:44, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * As of now, I am not at the point to write up a RfC yet, but if Pioneer-12 continues on this course... Zzyzx11 | Talk 23:53, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Note that he has as yet taken NO part in this new vote despite it all being his idea! ...then again, if he came here he'd probably be almost flamed to death... Master Thief Garrett 00:07, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Look at his contributions. It's quite clear that he's away from Wikipedia since 20:38, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC). --cesarb 00:20, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete to discourage vote tampering. RickK 23:18, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. This vote is invalid, as there is no policy for a revote. If anyone feels like taking this to RfC I'll certify. Mackensen (talk) 23:20, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur, but keep in mind that Master Thief Garrett appears to be an innocent victim, while User:Pioneer-12 may have been sincerely trying to create policy and just crossed over the line between being bold and being reckless. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:15, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe that assuming good faith from User:Pioneer-12 is not possible anymore ; see his attempt at rewriting history . --cesarb 00:34, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a wiki, cesarb. You can change your statements if you want to. That statement was made in jest. Since many people don't have a sense of humor, I changed it.

 * Dpbsmith is right; it was unwise to create a policy proposal at the time. If I had merely waited two days and then made the proposal, then there wouldn't have been any misunderstanding.

 * Wikipedia has shown me that people have an unlimited capacity for misunderstanding. I see I have to be more careful about how I word things in the future. - Pioneer-12 04:05, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Rename to "Great Boners of all time" or "All time Greatest boners". Sam Spade 23:22, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep List of incidents famously considered great blunders in current form (ie this title and with references and further reading &c). Precedent at List of movies that have been considered among the worst ever and greatest ever. -- Lochaber 23:54, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to "Greatest Boners of all time and redirect to Ron Jeremy. --Carnildo 01:03, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * This is so flaccid it's not even funny. Delete any incarnation of this article, citing bloat reasons like above. Mike H 01:07, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Bahahaha. I mean, get rid of this thing. The original title was laughable at best; it reminded me of an old and unintentionally hilarious Batman comic. Seriously, the word 'boner' meaning blunder isn't encyclopedic. Maybe in the 70s, or in England. I don't know. The list in its current form isn't much better, anyway. There isn't any hope for it to be complete, and there'd be inherently conflicts over what's considered a blunder. Like when the Mongols invaded Japan and were wiped out by a typhoon, is that really a blunder or just bad timing? A blunder would infer that there was a mistake made in strategy, do unexpected events count? And what would constitute an unexpected event? Also, death to coddled pet articles. RickGriffin 01:17, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * "The original title was laughable at best; it reminded me of an old and unintentionally hilarious Batman comic". The original title was actually based on that old and unintentionally funny Batman comic. :-) But, despite the silly title, even the first draft of the article was meant to be an encyclopedic, expandable stub. What's with the "death to coddled pet articles" attitide? That makes no sense. If you vote based on that then you are voting based on your opinion of the article's supporters and not on the article. That seems to be a form of personal attack rather then a legitimate reason to delete. - Pioneer-12 23:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * "death to coddled pet articles", without wanting to get into the issues here (this is controversial enough and confusing enough as it is) are you aware of the keep/delete schools issues? Thryduulf 01:00, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * See my user page for my thoughts on the keep/delete schools issues. If you think I'm not aware of something, please leave me a message there. I've been researching the keep/delete subject myself, and hearing other's viewpoints on the whole situation would be very welcome. - Pioneer-12 15:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Hardly. The refusal to let go bugs me. My legitimate reasons were in everything in my paragraph that you didn't quote. RickGriffin 20:25, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I will gladly change my mind if someone gives a convincing reason to. No one has. I'm sorry if my state of being unconvinced bugs you. You are welcome to try to convince me. I've already been convinced that having a stricter policy then usual regarding referencing and citing sources makes this article better. - Pioneer-12 20:37, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Or, you know, the subjects you didn't mention that were in my reply. What with all the Mongols and the invading of Japan. Above all that I'm just against lists that seem like they should be in a DID YOU KNOW?!?!?! book of some sort. Because also there has to be some cutoff limit about how 'great' a blunder would have to be before it's considered a great blunder.  RickGriffin 20:42, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The Mongols invading Japan and being taken out by a typhoon is a disaster, not a blunder. Is you look at the introdiction for list of military disasters it mentions bad weather as a possible cause of disaster. (It contributed to the French loss at Agincourt, among other battles.) On the introduction to the list of historical blunders page it indicates that, to be a blunder, something must have a bad result and be the result of bad decision making. The Mongal invasion could only be considered a blunder if they had a space-age, accurate typhoon prediction system and ignored it. The necessary technology did not exist, thus they had no reliable way of knowing that a typhoon would strike, thus it was not a blunder... but merely bad timing, as you suggested. - Pioneer-12 20:56, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep in current form. --L33tminion (talk) 01:32, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, as per my previous vote on this. Megan1967 04:13, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep in current form. Interesting historical topic that has references to books written by reputable historians. precedent as per Lochaber. --Veritol 04:19, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Doomed to be both incorrigibly POV and unmanageably long.  (Human history is pretty embarrassing.)  If it is kept, the management of this VfD may belong on the list, however. :) --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 04:57, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * nonono, we need that on its own page, Wikipedians who screwed up big time! :) Master Thief Garrett 05:54, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that list might also be unmanageably long; I suspect we've all made some pretty mistakes on Wikipedia. Perhaps a category would be better? --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 12:06, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * We need a Be thick-skinned policy to accompany Be bold. We effectively have a Be kind policy under the rubrics of Civility and Assume good faith. I recently nominated an article for VfD that I shouldn't have nominated. It is very unpleasant to watch a string of uniformly hostile comments coming, and coming, and coming... Dpbsmith (talk) 12:58, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, interesting and encyclopedic. Grue 07:43, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete still stands. Radiant_* 11:17, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per TenOfAllTrades--nixie 11:20, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yawn VfD will be dead, for all intents and purposes, if re-votes are allowed every time somebody edits an article, or redirects/moves it in violation of VfD policy. —Wahoofive (Talk) 17:08, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I am utterly confused, but Keep the article and redirect this "revote" to the original VfD. I think I can do both here and that is not too ambiguous. Is there a page similar to WP:LAME for deletion votes or a hall of shame for how not to conduct a debate? If there is then I vote to inlcude both VfDs there. Thryduulf 21:59, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are many incidents that are unarguably "great blunders". The title needs to be reworded, but it is encyclopedic. E=MC^2 T@lk 01:54, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Category:Local government in Wiltshire

Until 2009, the ceremonial county of Wiltshire was divided into the unitary authority of Swindon and four local government districts, Kennet, North Wiltshire, Salisbury, and West Wiltshire, with Wiltshire County Council providing strategic services outside Swindon.

Since 2009, local government in Wiltshire consists of two unitary authorities, Wiltshire Council, the successor of Wiltshire County Council and the four former districts, and the Borough of Swindon. The areas they cover still make up the ceremonial county of Wiltshire.

title: Category:Local government in Wiltshire


text: User talk:194.206.179.4

title: User talk:194.206.179.4


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alexa Davis

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. — Xezbeth 09:48, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Alexa Davis
Was nominated as a speedy, but doesn't fulfill the criteria. An adoration article, if there is such a thing. Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 21:44, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. That's so cute... but not encyclopedic. Zzyzx11 | Talk 21:47, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete of course. But can we see a picture first? ---Isaac R 21:58, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete if possible (see below) unless they provide a hot photo of her, in which case Very Strong Keep! Preferably in a red bathing suit please. Oh and with her hair down. I like that in a Playma--uh, girl. LOL! Master Thief Garrett 22:08, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Since a photo of Alexa isn't likely to be forthcoming, and since you seem so eager, I thought I would provide you with this. Dsmdgold 14:57, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * LOL! It's not nearly midnight any more y'know... LOL! Master Thief Garrett 21:50, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * If it is not a CSD, we could move the entry to BJAODN. --SuperDude 18:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Looking through the page history, it apparently was speedily deleted (as an aside, I added the speedy delete tag to it). R Calvete 22:33, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)
 * Can we re-speedy it in that case?
 * No we can't speedy it, because it doesn't fulfill the criteria for speedy deletion. Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 13:11, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * As unnoteworthy Alexa Davis is (sorry Alexa!), she's probably more noteworthy than Cool bounce. --Isaac R
 * That's why we're deleting them both! Master Thief Garrett 11:54, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as vanity, and a unencyclopedic, nonsensical microstub. --SuperDude 04:36, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Vanity isn't a criterion for speedy deletion. Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 13:11, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity. Sjakkalle 10:57, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Vanity Dsmdgold 14:47, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Moronism Minirich
 * For goodness' sake, be reasonable! This is a vanity article, and a stub with little or no meaning (from my point of view). May I cite § 2.1 in the Speedy criteria:
 * 1) Very short articles with little or no context (e.g., "He is a funny man that has created Factory and the Hacienda. And, by the way, his wife is great.")
 * This is a short article, isn't it? Speedy at once, and if you can't do this because it doesn't fit the criteria, then Delete As Fast As Possible. Rubbish like this article should not remain here for a long time. JMBell° 15:05, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This article won't last a long time. However, it does give context to a degree.  While not being notable, it is not a speedy deletion candidate.  Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 16:54, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - sometimes love just ain't enough. Onlyemarie 15:11, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'm sure the guy has had plenty of time by now to take a screenshot so he can show it off to his girlfriend. Maybe Wikipedia could charge for this service? It could generate a few bucks. ;-) 23skidoo 21:04, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I see it now... Wikiboy: e-Mansion... Master Thief Garrett 21:50, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Gentle Delete. This is funny, but it has to go. BJAODN anyone? Zscout370 22:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I change my mind: Transwiki to the Comedy Wiki. Past BJAODN can be transferred there as well. --SuperDude 00:29, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 03:37, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete --nihil 22:03, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As the creator of this blathering article, I'm going to note that I use wikipedia for everything in the world. I did this to show her the way in which wikipedia functions, since she plainly did not believe me. I was expecting it to be pulled down without much fanfare. Harassment can be addressed to dmk2113@columbia.edu.
 * With all due respect, if you do use Wiki so often you should know that tests belong in the sandbox; thanks. Onlyemarie 18:17, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Speedy Delete as user test based on the above note. Jonathunder 09:16, 2005 Apr 28 (UTC)
 * Awwww. Delete. Secretcurse 01:57, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Lucy Lane

Lucy Lane is a fictional supporting character in DC Comics. She is the younger sister of Lois Lane, and one of several characters who have assumed the Superwoman identity.

She was played by Maureen Teefy in the 1984 film Supergirl and Peyton List in the series Smallville. Jenna Dewan played Lucy in the Arrowverse series Supergirl (2015–2016) and the Arrowverse spin-off series Superman & Lois (2022–2023).

Publication history
Lucy Lane was created by writer Otto Binder and artist Curt Swan. She was introduced in Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #36 (April 1959). She is the daughter of Ella and Sam Lane, and the younger sister of Lois Lane.

Fictional character biography
In the Silver Age stories, Lucy was presented as an airline stewardess who was an on-again, off-again romantic interest of Jimmy Olsen. Lucy's Silver Age appearances often revolved around Jimmy's various attempts at romancing her. A wedding took place in Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen issue #100 (March 1967) which was intended to be a permanent change to the comic's status quo, but editor Mort Weisinger changed his mind at the last minute, and had writer Leo Dorfman change the ending to include a sudden annulment of the marriage.

The character was believed to have died in Superman's Girl Friend, Lois Lane #120 (March 1972) but was later revived in a story in Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #160 (October 1973).

Lucy was reintroduced into DC Comics' continuity in The Man of Steel #5 (December 1986). Lucy was an air traffic controller, but became affected by a mysterious blindness (implied to have poisoned by Lex Luthor) that was cured as a side-effect of the destruction of a Bizarro clone. Lucy returned to her job and had a brief relationship with Jimmy Olsen. After many encounters with super-villains such as Sleez, Deathstroke, and even becoming a vampire bride, she eventually started dating African-American Daily Planet staff member Ron Troupe. When Lucy became pregnant, her conservative father was enraged although Lucy explained "There's not a racist bone in Daddy's body. He hates all his daughters' beaus." Sam Lane eventually overcame his anger when Lucy and Ron were married and their child was born.

New Krypton
After a long disappearance from the principal storylines, Lucy Lane returns in the one shot Superman: New Krypton. Her past with Ron Troupe is unclear, they are possibly estranged (Troupe having resurfaced in the current storylines, working again with the Daily Planet). Her long disappearance is explained by her joining the military, in a desperate, post-mortem attempt to appease her (presumed) dead father's desire to have a son able to carry on his career in the military. Bitter and angrier than in her former appearances, she still blames Lois for General Sam Lane's apparent death during the war against Imperiex. Essentially, she thinks Lois broke his heart by putting her love for Superman before her duties as a daughter.

Lucy references her former appearances, even mentioning her "dating boys in Lois' circle" as failed attempts to live her life through her more successful sister, but she eventually chooses to sacrifice her life and live the military career her father intended for Lois, driving an even deeper wedge between the two sisters. Unbeknownst to her, their father is still alive, and working with the government.

Superwoman
Lucy first appeared as Superwoman in Supergirl #35, her costume a nod to that of the Bronze Age Superwoman Kristin Wells and containing a containment field that simulated Kryptonian powers. Lucy's identity was not revealed until near the story arc's end. During her tenure as Superwoman, she was ordered by her father, General Sam Lane, to kill Agent Liberty, who had been spying on General Lane and Lex Luthor. She later attacked Reactron, which tipped off readers that Superwoman was not Kryptonian (in that the villain's Gold Kryptonite power source had no effect on her). Supergirl unmasks Superwoman, and accidentally kills her by rupturing the containment field of her suit, causing Lucy's body to contort and explode.

In Supergirl Annual #1 readers are given the current modern backstory of Lucy Lane. In the story, Lucy, since the moment she was born, has felt overshadowed by her big sister Lois. Lucy always felt that Lois outperformed her, overshadowed her and was more loved by their father. Lucy never blame Lois, but instead blames her parents. Feeling that by maybe being closer to Lois her father would pay more attention to her, Lucy moved to the same city but this came at the same time Lois and her father grew apart over Superman. Lucy then enlisted in the army, quickly rising through the ranks to become a decorated senior officer. During the Amazon attack on the United States, Lucy was nearly killed by two Amazons but was saved by Codename: Assassin. Awakening in Project 7734, her father is able to convince Lucy to put on the Superwoman suit, which possessed mystical qualities.

Although seemingly dead, Lucy's remains steal the lifeforce of a man who came too close. When Lucy is recovered by General Lane's forces, they learn that the suit's mystic energies have somehow transformed her into an actual Kryptonian.

Following the War of the Supermen storyline, Lucy is in custody in S.T.A.R. Labs by Kimiyo Hoshi and Gangbuster, who are attempting to remove Lucy's metahuman abilities. After interference by an object that crashes into a Metropolis park, before they leave Lucy's holding cell, it is shown seemingly to have lightly cracked. Later, Lucy is visited by her sister Lois, who wants to talk. Lucy is unhelpful as she has completely given in to insanity. Lois tells Lucy that she is disgusted by her and walks away leaving Lucy in S.T.A.R. Labs custody behind. Although the crack in the cell seemed to hint at Lucy escaping at some point, nothing came of it, and once The New 52 was launched, all storylines in progress in DC were dropped in favor of the new continuity.

The New 52
In September 2011, The New 52 rebooted DC's continuity. In this new timeline, Lucy Lane is first seen where she was picked up from the train station by Lois after Clark Kent was unable to fulfill his promise to Lois to do it himself. Later to make up for it, Clark accompanies her, Lois, Johnathan Carrol, and Morgan Edge to the most expensive restaurant in town but is later forced to leave her with the check due to his duties as Superman. Clark later makes it up to her by taking her bungee jumping, an activity which Lucy enjoys. Lucy befriended and later became roommates with Amanda Suresh after they met while white water rafting, starting a low-key relationship with her. They also adopted a cat named Simon. Amanda became ill and Doctor Ostermann gave her drugs to take, the drugs having secretly been taken from an alien fungus which would mutate the user into a shapeshifting creature. Lucy and Amanda both took the pills resulting in the later turning into a wolf like creature and the former into a giant insect-like creature. An organization named the Cartel began kidnapping users of the drug, which had begun circulating on the streets, for detox and they managed to capture Amanda. Lucy convinced Lois to save Amanda. In her insect form Lucy rescued Lois and Amanda from the Cartel's base. The issue ended with Lois comforting a hysterical Lucy.

Powers and abilities
Although Superwoman originally had no inherent powers, her powersuit altered her DNA via a containment field to resemble that of a Kryptonian and as such would potentially make her capable of all the same feats they possess under the yellow sun. The abilities she has used thus far are; vast (possibly limitless) superhuman strength, speed and durability, invulnerability, flight (normal and interstellar), freeze breath and heat vision. The powersuit protects her from the harmful effects of Kryptonite and grants her the ability to steal the life of someone nearby to resurrect herself. Any other non-Kryptonian abilities the suit may possess have yet to be revealed. Due to the launch of the New 52, it is unlikely that any of the suit's other powers will be revealed unless it makes an appearance in the new continuity.

As a result of her resurrection in Supergirl #50, she is said to have all the inherent abilities and weaknesses of "Those alien races" which were duplicated by the suit as the result of her return from the dead. While the exact number of alien races whose powers are duplicated by the suit are unknown, Kryptonian powers are among the powerset, as she displayed the ability to use Heat Vision shortly after her recovery by Sam Lane's forces when she was reborn. She confirms that she possesses super hearing when she murders a scientist working for Lane, though she does so with some form of energy blast from her hand, a power that is not among the abilities of a Kryptonian. If this statement is accurate, Lucy Lane now shares the inherent weakness to Kryptonite which all Kryptonians possess.

The original suit was destroyed by Supergirl but she appears to have acquired another as of Supergirl #50, and it is unknown if this suit is the same as the one she had been using to masquerade as a Kryptonian, or a non-magical one.

After her mutation due to drugs created from an alien fungus Lucy can transform from her mutated form to her normal form. In her mutated form, Lucy can fly and apparently withstand tranquilizer darts.

Television

 * A young version of Lucy Lane appears in the prologue of "Monkey Fun", an episode of Superman: The Animated Series, voiced by Aria Noelle Curzon. Lucy and her sister Lois are seen in a flashback playing with Titano the monkey during their childhood. Lucy as an adult is never explicitly identified in person. She is mentioned by Lois while Clark is talking about his trouble with Mr. Mxyzptlk's visits.

 * Lucy Lane appeared in four episodes of the television series Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, where she was portrayed by Elizabeth Barondes and by Roxana Zal. She has offscreen appearances in two other episodes, "Season's Greedings" and "I Now Pronounce You...". Her most prominent role is in the episode "Metallo" when she dates small-time criminal Johnny Corben before he becomes Metallo.

 * Lucy Lane first appeared on the television series Smallville in the season four episode "Lucy"; she was played by Peyton List. In this version, Lucy has been attending school in Europe for some time, and has consequently been out of touch with her sister Lois. Lucy is briefly mentioned in the episode "Persuasion" when Lois (under the effects of Jewel Kryptonite crystals that cause Clark to unintentionally influence anyone who hears his words to obey him) believes she is marrying Clark and calls Lucy to tell her she's getting married. Lucy appears in season 10's seventh episode, "Ambush", as she surprises Lois along with General Sam Lane when they arrive on the Kent farm before Thanksgiving. In the episode "Icarus", a VRA file on her sister lists Ron Troupe and Samuel Troupe as their relatives.

 * Jenna Dewan played Lucy Lane in the TV series Supergirl. Introduced in season 1 in the third episode as Jimmy Olsen's ex-fiancée. In this continuity, Lucy is a major in the Judge Advocate General's Corps, United States Army assigned as a "trial counsel" (prosecutor). In the episode "Manhunter", she and Jim Harper interrogate Martian Manhunter and Alex Danvers before taking them into Project Cadmus. Supergirl reveals her identity to Lucy, who is made head of the D.E.O at the end of the episode.

 * Dewan reprised her role as Lucy Lane in Superman & Lois which is set on a different Earth within the Arrowverse's Post-Crisis multiverse. In this version, unliker her Earth-38 counterpart, Lucy attempted suicide through a combination of pills and bath water upon believing the preaching of Ally Allston. 5 years ago, Lucy briefly lived with Lois and Clark before moving out. During this time Ally's "Inverse Method" preaching stuck with her, and she blamed Lois for their mother leaving the family. Appearing in person in the episode "The Inverse Method", Lucy agreed to meet with Lois at her hotel room at a hotel in New Carthage where Ally was doing more of her preaching. While Chrissy Beppo infiltrated the event under the alias of Penelope Collins, Lucy spoke to Lois about their family issues and that Ally didn't do anything wrong which Ally used a hidden camera to film and show to Chrissy when Ally saw through her disguise. Eventually, Lucy found that Lois was right about Ally after her father was wounded by her. Following Ally's defeat, Lucy reconciled with Lois and Sam. In the episode "In Cold Blood", Lois calls up Lucy to inform her of her stage-3 inflammatory breast cancer.

Film

 * Lucy Lane appears in the 1984 film Supergirl, portrayed by Maureen Teefy. She appears as a friend and schoolmate of Supergirl's alter-ego Linda Lee and was depicted as a peppy teenager with a burgeoning relationship with Jimmy Olsen, vaguely mimicking their relationship in the comics.

title: Lucy Lane


text:
Talk:Mezzanine (album)

Genre
I'm adding Art Rock as a genre since Mezzanine is a more progressive album with alot of tension in the soundscapes.Revan ltrl 12:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm removing that as a genre since Mezzanine is not a rock album, nor are its creators rock artists. .Absolution. 02:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Wrong. They are rock.Revan ltrl (talk) 19:15, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Mezzanine (album)
Alanis Morissette? She wasn't a guest vocalist in Mezzanine. I am removing her.

The track list in the spanish page is different (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezzanine) Was this album released in different versions? --212.121.229.186 (talk) 06:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC) Pol

Internet Album
Although I usually hang around the IDM related pages, my GF has recently got me interested in Massive Attack. I added two albums that have since been released on the internet before commercial release, the previous edit stating that Massive Attack were the only ones to do it. --Insomniak 06:33, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Personel
Massive Attack in not a person, I am removing it.

 * Personnel can mean more than one person. I have placed it back. Genxima (talk) 16:41, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Inertia Creeps
Wasn't "Inertia Creeps" used in a Victoria's Secret advertising campaign in 2001 or 2002? CFBSolon 10:52, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Not sure, but I know it wasn't the song playing in Neo's headphones at the beginning of The Matrix, as the article incorrectly states. That song was, in fact, "Dissolved Girl."  Correction in T minus twenty. .Absolution. 02:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Sara Jay
Is the Sara Jay that sang on "Dissolved Girl" the same as the pornstar?--Azior 13:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

-> Of course not. 79.201.17.83 (talk) 09:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Her name is Sarah Jay Hawley: https://sarahjayhawley.com -- Who is like God? (talk) 23:23, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Professional Reviews
It's been over a year since anyone has commented on this page... Just for those who may be reading, I've expanded on the Reviews section under the Album "box". This is a very good album, not only in my opinion, but universally, and it should at least be at a FA (featured article) level. Genxima (talk) 16:25, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Reception, Track Listing
I've done that as well. Genxima (talk) 20:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I've removed a sentence about one of the covers of "Teardrop", as this subject is dealt with more thoroughly and more properly under the Wikipedia "Teardrop" entry. Ramseyman (talk) 05:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:MassiveAttack-GroupFour.ogg
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 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --02:28, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Teardrop
The track Teardrop in its instrumental version is used in the TV Series House M.D in the US version intro —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.81.144.77 (talk) 13:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Manic Street Preachers
Did Manic Street Preachers record their version of Inertia Creeps several years before 1998? Reading the article it seems to be in this way, but the voice of Manic Street Preachers version is not Edwards'; it's the same voice of the album version, I suppose. I think Manics recorded all the instruments but not the voice, so maybe they did so even after Edwards' disappearance (February 1995). In fact I don't think Manics covered the song three (or more) years before it was published on the album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.37.10.40 (talk) 23:24, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Tracks using samples
The article says "[...] the majority of the songs consists of one or more samples [...]", but according to the track listing only 5 out of 11 tracks use samples. ✎ HannesP · talk 15:30, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 23:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Mezzanine (album)


text:
Talk:List of members of the European Parliament for Belgium, 2004–2009

Proposal for a change in presentation
I think the data should be presented like for France where the elective region is shown. For Belgium it was not one election but 3 elections, one per language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dglaude (talk • contribs) 21:47, 24 April 2005


text:
Talk:Cabir (computer worm)

This is almost certainly ripped from someone's weblog at least in part, especially due to the line we are not writing the code here on the weblog boffy_b 21:47, 2005 Apr 24 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cabir (computer worm)


text:
Countdown to Infinite Crisis

DC Countdown, commonly referred to as Countdown to Infinite Crisis, is a one-shot publication and the official start of the "Infinite Crisis" storyline. It was released 30 March 2005, sold out, and quickly went to a second printing. When this comic was first published, the cover showed Batman holding a shadowed corpse, so as not to ruin the surprise of who dies. For the second printing, the shadows were removed to reveal the identity of the corpse. During initial solicitations the comic was entitled DC Countdown to postpone revelation of an upcoming crisis.

Countdown was a special 80 page comic originally priced at $1, much lower than would normally be the case for an 80-page comic, although the second printing was priced at $2. The script was co-written by Geoff Johns, Greg Rucka, and Judd Winick, while the art chores were divided up, generally on a chapter by chapter basis, between the penciller-inker teams of Rags Morales & Michael Bair, Jesus Saiz & Jimmy Palmiotti, Ivan Reis & Marc Campos, and Phil Jimenez & Andy Lanning. Artist Ed Benes pencilled and inked his chapter.

Synopsis
The main plot concerns Ted Kord, the superhero and former Justice League member known as the Blue Beetle, investigating the theft of funds from his company that has left him nearly bankrupt. Most of the other DC heroes except Wonder Woman dismiss Kord's concerns, either politely or, like Batman, who now remembers that the League had mind-wiped him, outright (Batman would later regret his behaviour). Only Booster Gold, another superhero and Kord's best friend, eventually decides to help complete the investigation, but before he can he is seriously injured by an explosive trap.

Alone and unaided, Blue Beetle continues to follow the clues to Switzerland where he infiltrates the castle base of the Checkmate organization. There, he confronts Maxwell Lord, who is revealed to be using his Justice League files and Batman's satellite, the Brother MK I, to keep an eye on the superhero community, which he considers a threat to the human race. After Beetle refuses to join Lord, Lord executes him with a fatal gunshot to the head.

Crossovers
Countdown was bannered as a bridge to all four of the Crisis leadup titles, but featured each of them unevenly. The main plot was essentially an extended prologue to The OMAC Project. The events of Day of Vengeance were foreshadowed, when the Beetle confronted the wizard Shazam, but no particular hints about that title were made. The Rann-Thanagar War was mentioned on a single page, but seemed to already be underway in the story. The main characters of Villains United were featured in a single chapter of the book, but one that did not connect to the Blue Beetle storyline in any way.

Collection
Countdown was reprinted as part of the trade paperback collection of The OMAC Project, published November 2005 (ISBN 1-4012-0837-1).

title: Countdown to Infinite Crisis


text:
Dougie Freedman

Douglas Alan Freedman (born 25 May 1974) is a Scottish professional football manager and former player. He is the current sporting director of Crystal Palace.

Freedman played as a striker, primarily for Crystal Palace and also had spells as a player at Queens Park Rangers, Barnet, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Nottingham Forest, Leeds United and Southend United. Freedman had two caps for the Scotland national team where he scored one goal in a 2002 World Cup qualifier against Latvia.

Freedman started his managerial career with Crystal Palace in 2011. He moved to fellow Championship club Bolton Wanderers in 2012, but left this position in October 2014. He became manager of Nottingham Forest in February 2015, with whom he parted company in March 2016.

Barnet
Freedman began his career with top flight Queens Park Rangers in 1992, but never made their first team. He moved to Third Division Barnet on a free transfer in July 1994, aged 20. He made his league debut in August 1994 and quickly became the club's leading player as he struck 24 goals in his debut season. A bright start to the following season attracted the interest of Crystal Palace. Despite only spending a short spell at Barnet at the beginning of his playing career, Freedman was voted as the fans' favourite player in the club's all-time history in late 2007.

Crystal Palace
Freedman was signed by Crystal Palace for a fee of £800,000 in September 1995. He instantly showed he could continue his goalscoring form at the higher level when he netted 20 times in the 1995–96 season. This haul included an 11-minute hat-trick against Grimsby Town on 5 March 1996.

The following, 1996–97 season saw a less prolific 11 league goals but helped the club to the promotion play-offs. He then scored crucial goals in the 89th and 90th minutes of their Play Off semi-final tie with Wolves after coming off the bench with 17 minutes left. Palace went on to win promotion in the Wembley Play Off final, beating Sheffield United 1–0. Freedman's experience of Premier League football in the 1997–98 season proved short-lived though as he only managed seven top flight games before being sold to Wolves.

Wolverhampton Wanderers
Freedman joined Wolves, initially on loan, in October 1997. After impressing with two goals in as many games, Wolves quickly made his contract permanent in a £800,000 combined deal with Palace defender Kevin Muscat. However, Freedman's time at Wolves only lasted until the end of the 1997–98 season. He was the team's top goalscorer with 13 in total in a season that saw Wolves fail to mount a serious promotion challenge. The emergence of striker Robbie Keane during the season helped convince Wolves to sell Freedman.

Nottingham Forest
In August 1998 Freedman signed for newly promoted Premier League side Nottingham Forest for a fee of £900,000. He made his first appearance for Forest on 17 August 1998 as a substitute in a 2–1 defeat at Arsenal. In his first full campaign in the top flight in 1998–99 he scored 9 league goals for Forest who were relegated that season to Division One. In his second season at Forest in 1999–2000, the club languished in mid-table under manager David Platt. Freedman made a total of 81 appearances, and scoring 23 goals, before being sold to Crystal Palace in October 2000.

Return to Crystal Palace
Freedman rejoined Palace in October 2000 for a transfer fee of £600,000. He rejoined the club during a relegation threatened campaign, but one which ended with perhaps his most famous goal for the club. Relegation to the third tier loomed in their final game of the season at Stockport County, with three minutes left and no score. Freedman then scored the vital goal that kept Palace in the division and relegated Huddersfield Town.

The following season saw Freedman bag 21 goals in all competitions, his best seasonal tally for Palace. This also earned him a call-up to the Scotland national team, to add to his earlier Under 21 caps. However, the next season was less of a personal success as he was dropped from the Scotland side, and began to find his appearances limited at Palace, as manager Trevor Francis largely preferred Ade Akinbiyi, Dele Adebola, and Andy Johnson to him.

His fortunes were revived in 2003–04 though, as he re-established himself as a first choice regular under new manager Iain Dowie. A strong surge in the second half of the season saw the club go from relegation contenders to the promotion play-offs. Freedman scored during the penalty shootout victory at Sunderland in the semi-finals to help the club to the final. He was an unused substitute in the final though, which saw the club beat West Ham, the second time he had been promoted with the club.

However, life in the Premier League in 2004–05 saw Freedman often overlooked as the team employed only one striker in most games, with Johnson being the preferred choice in this role. Despite attracting interest from Leeds United midway through the season, he remained committed to the Palace cause of consolidating Premier League status by rejecting a loan bid from the Championship contenders. He stayed to score his only top flight goal for the club in their vital final fixture at Charlton Athletic, drawing them level at 1–1. However, the eventual 2–2 result saw the club endure a record fourth Premier League relegation.

Back in the Championship, he remained down the pecking order behind England international Johnson and Republic of Ireland international Clinton Morrison. However, injuries to Johnson and Jon Macken, and lack of form from Morrison brought him back into the team and he scored his 100th and 101st goals for Crystal Palace in a 3–2 win at rivals Brighton & Hove Albion on 20 November 2005. This made him only the seventh player in Palace history to have reached the century mark.

He managed to stay in the line-up after Johnson's return, having made a great impression on Palace boss Iain Dowie, who, later, made a public call to Scotland boss Walter Smith for the striker to be given another chance in the national side. He ended the season with six league goals, as the club comfortably reached the play-offs. However, they were beaten by Watford in their semi final tie to deny him a chance of a third promotion.

The appointment of Peter Taylor as manager in Summer 2006 limited Freedman's chances, and he could only manage three league goals. However, he extended his contract by a further two years at the conclusion of the season. Taylor was replaced by Neil Warnock early in the 2007–08 season, but strong goalscoring form of Clinton Morrison limited Freedman to rare substitute appearances.

With Morrison keeping him out of the Palace side, Freedman, after initially rejecting the move (as he had done during the 2004–05 season), decided to move to League One club Leeds United on loan until the end of the season.

Leeds United
He was in excellent form for the Elland Road club, scoring five goals to ensure a play-off place including a brace against Carlisle United in a 3–2 win at Elland Road and also receiving praise from Leeds manager Gary McAllister. This form earned him League One's "Player of the Month" award for April, while another vital late play-off goal in the first leg of Leeds' semi-final tie with Carlisle United and an assist for a last minute Jonny Howson goal in the second leg helped the Whites to Wembley, where he featured in the play-off final on the day of his 34th birthday, as Leeds were downed 1–0 by Doncaster Rovers. After the season ended, Freedman revealed that he wanted to join Leeds permanently, however Leeds signed Luciano Becchio and Freedman had to look elsewhere.

Freedman is held in high regard by the Leeds United's supporters despite a short spell at the club; his impact in helping the team to the playoff final and his impressive interviews during his time at Leeds are remembered.

Southend United
After returning to Palace at the end of the season, Freedman was granted a testimonial match to reward him for 10 years' service at the club over two spells, with the match to be a first-team pre-season friendly fixture against Fulham at Selhurst Park which ended in a 0–0 draw. Following this match, Warnock allowed Freedman to depart Selhurst. He was heavily linked with a permanent move to Leeds, however this never materialised.

Instead Freedman moved to Southend United on a free transfer, scoring four goals in his first four outings for the Shrimpers. However his first season was plagued by injury. The following season saw the form of Lee Barnard keep Freedman out of the side.

In March 2010, Freedman had his contract at Southend terminated by mutual consent to rejoin Palace as part of the coaching staff, signalling the end of his playing career.

International career
Freedman played for the Scotland under-21 team in the mid-1990s. Scotland manager Craig Brown considered selecting Freedman for the full national side in 1996, when main striker Kevin Gallacher was injured. Freedman made his Scotland debut on 6 October 2001, in a 2002 World Cup qualifying match against Latvia at Hampden Park. The Scots won the match 2–1, with Freedman scoring the equalising goal. It was scored by a header past then Crystal Palace teammate, goalkeeper Aleksandrs Koliņko, and came after another Palace teammate, Andrejs Rubins, had given Latvia a 1–0 lead. Despite this victory, Scotland failed to gain a place in the World Cup. Craig Brown resigned after the match and was replaced as Scotland manager by Berti Vogts. Freedman only earned one more Scotland cap following Vogts' appointment, playing the first 45 minutes of a 5–0 defeat by France in a March 2002 friendly.

Crystal Palace
Freedman's coaching career began when he was appointed as the reserve team manager of Crystal Palace in November 2005. He was in this role alongside his playing duties for the club's first team. This role ended when he joined Leeds United on loan the following March. Following his move to Southend United, he began coaching alongside playing for the Shrimpers' first team.

After his retirement from his playing duties, in March 2010, Freedman returned to Crystal Palace, now as the assistant manager to Paul Hart, with John Pemberton as first team coach. At this time, Palace were in administration, with the new coaching staff's task being to avoid relegation from the Championship, which was achieved on the final day of the season. When George Burley was appointed as Palace's new manager to succeed Hart, Freedman was retained to act as his assistant manager.

Burley was dismissed on 1 January 2011, resulting in Freedman being appointed caretaker manager. Palace's first-choice to replace Burley was AFC Bournemouth manager Eddie Howe, though he was appointed as manager at Burnley, with Freedman being made permanent manager of Palace, signing a two-and-a-half-year deal. He quickly moved to bring in Lennie Lawrence as his assistant and former Palace teammate Tony Popovic as first team coach.

He was ultimately successful in guiding Crystal Palace out of the relegation zone, with the club achieving safety with a game to spare. Palace began the 2011–12 season well under their new manager, occupying the playoff places at the end of October and also enjoying a good run in the Football League Cup, where they knocked out Manchester United 2–1 at Old Trafford with goals from Darren Ambrose and Glenn Murray. Crystal Palace ended the season in 17th place. They made a strong start to the 2012–13 season.

Bolton Wanderers
On 23 October 2012, Crystal Palace released a statement announcing "that first team manager Dougie Freedman has joined Bolton Wanderers." At the time Bolton, in 16th place in the Championship, were 12 places below Crystal Palace in 4th. Bolton confirmed the appointment on 25 October. His first match in charge of Bolton finished in a 2–1 win over Cardiff City. His first signing as Bolton manager was that of Norwich City midfielder Jacob Butterfield on a month-long loan.

Throughout November, Freedman's first full month in charge, his new team remained undefeated, the first time they had achieved this for two years. He went on to lead Bolton Wanderers to five wins in a row for the first time since 2006 in the late push for promotion, taking the club from 20th to 7th position in the Championship. Bolton narrowly missed out on qualifying for the play-offs on the final day of the season, whereas Crystal Palace made it into the play-offs and ultimately ended up winning the play offs and being promoted. After guiding Bolton to a late push for the play-offs, Freedman won the Football League Championship Manager of the Month award for April 2013. The 2013–14 season was less successful as Bolton were inconsistent and finished in 14th, their first win not coming until October.

The 2014–15 season started similarly, Bolton failed to win any of their first 6 games and only one of the first ten. Freedman left the club on 3 October 2014 by mutual consent.

Nottingham Forest
On 1 February 2015, Freedman was appointed as manager of Nottingham Forest, following the sacking of Stuart Pearce. After a positive start to his tenure, on 16 April 2015 it was confirmed that Freedman had signed a new contract to keep him at the City Ground for a further two years. Forest finished 14th for the 2014–15 season. Following only three wins in 22 games, Freedman's position at Forest came under threat, with former Forest player Nigel Clough being linked to replacing Freedman as manager. However, following wins against Reading, Fulham and MK Dons, plus away draws against Wolves and Blackburn in November and December 2015, Freedman's position stabilised, even more so when Clough was appointed manager of Burton Albion in December. In spite of having a number of key players injured and Forest being severely restricted because of a transfer embargo, Freedman went on to lead Forest to a 13-game unbeaten run. This ended on 30 January 2016 with a 1–0 defeat to Watford in the fourth round of the FA cup. However, shortly after, Forest lost form, managing only one win in six games. Following a 3–0 defeat to Sheffield Wednesday at the City Ground on 12 March 2016, in which eight Forest players were unable to play because of injury, Freedman was sacked the following day.

Return to Crystal Palace
On 21 August 2017, Freedman returned to Crystal Palace as sporting director. In the summer of 2021, Freedman played a big role in helping bring former Arsenal captain Patrick Vieira to Crystal Palace as their manager. He also secured the loan signing of Conor Gallagher from Chelsea as well as permanent deals for centre-back Marc Guehi and winger Michael Olise. All three signings turned out to be pivotal in the ensuing campaign as Crystal Palace reached the FA Cup semi-finals for just the fifth time in their history.

International goals

 * Scores and results list Scotland's goal tally first, score column indicates score after each Freedman goal.

Honours
Crystal Palace
 * Football League First Division play-offs): 1997, 2004

Individual
 * Barnet Player of the Year: 1994–95
 * Football League Third Division PFA Team of the Year: 1994–95
 * Crystal Palace Player of the Year: 2001–02
 * Football League First Division PFA Team of the Year: 2001–02
 * Football League First Division Player of the Month: August 2003
 * Football League One Player of the Month: April 2008
 * Football League Championship Manager of the Month: September 2012, April 2013

title: Dougie Freedman


text:
Talk:Lord Dunmore's War

Name of war
Why move this? Lord Dunmore's War is traditional. Septentrionalis 21:48, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I was wondering the same thing. Every source I know of refers to it as Lord Dunmore's War.  Obviously not the references listed here.  I guess that's what redirects are for, right? Mingusboodle (talk) 03:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

POV- british settlers

 * "The context of the conflict resulted from escalating violence between British colonists who in accordance with previous treaties were exploring and moving into land south of the Ohio River—modern West Virginia and Kentucky—and American Indians who held treaty rights to hunt there. "

The tribes in West Virginia were the Mingo and Shawnee, and they signed no treaty with the British agreeing to give up their lands/ allow settlers into their territories. Nothing particularly new here- it was a war of conquest between a more technologically advanced and numerous invader and a weaker foe. The Treaty of Fort Stanwix was simply a figleaf, and the article on the treaty correctly states that the inhabitants of the disputed territories were not party to the treaty.

If there is no disagreement, the change proposed is:

 * "The conflict resulted from escalating violence between British colonists who were exploring and moving into land of present day West Virginia under a treaty that was signed with indian tribes who didn't live there. "

Mak (talk) 19:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

1774 - Lord Dunmore to Col. Andrew Lewis. July 24, 1774 From Documentary History of Dunmore's War, edited by Reuben Gold Thwaites and Louise Phelps Kellogg (Madison: Wisconsin Historical Society, 1905), p. 97-98

SIR - I received your's and Colo. Charles Lewis Letters. the general Confederacy of Different Indian Nations their repeated Hostilities (there were six Men. Murdered on Dunkard Creek on the l8th instant) the Discovery of Indians & universal Alarm throughout all the frontiers of the Colony & the unhappy situation of the Divided People settled over the Alagany Mountain's makes it necessary for [me to] go in Person to Fort Dunmore to put Matters under the best Regulation to Support that Country for a Barrier [and] give the Enemies a Blow that will Breake the Confederacy & render their plans abortive I intend to take as [many] men from this quarter as I Can get in order in some [so] short time &. Desire you to raise a respectable Boddy of Men and join me either at the mouth of the greate Kanaway or Waiten as is most Convenient for you. the Indians having Spies on the Frontiers the[y] may Bring all. the Force of the Shawnees against you in your march to the Mouth of the Kenawey so I would have you Consider in What Time You Could get them and other things ready so to meet me at eny Place at Ohio in as Short time as you Can let me know the Same by the return of the express and forward the Letter to Colo. Wm. Preston with the greatest Dispatch as I want his Assistance as well as that of your Brother, Charles Lewis. the Expense of the Numerous scouting Parties in the Different Counties forming an Expensive Frontere Will soon exceed the Expences of an Expedition Against their Towns which will be more effectiaul & we may as well depend on the House of burgess providing for the Expedition as for a greater Expence of Acting on the Defensive at any rate we know the Old Law [is] Still in force as far as it goes we are sure of being reimbersed I wish you would Acquaint Colo. Preston of Contents of this Letter that those he Sends Out may joine you and Pray be as explicit as you Can as to the time & place of Meeting I need not inform You how necessary Dispatch is. I am Sir Your Most Obt. & very Hbl. Ser DUNMORE WINCHESTER July 24th 1774

Now, General Lewis also herded some 100 head of cattle and other livestock to the Point of the Kanawha River where the proposed 14th colony capitol would become, the place of the "Battle of Point Pleasant". His brigade moved down the Kanawha on a general Indian path now called US 60 or near it. His Companies moved in groups, not in mass while each Company transported the wares and livestock. There were a few Native American who also Scouted for him who had served with him in the French and Indian War's "Big Sandy Expedition", 1756. We at the local museum figure he gain experience from this French and Indian War expedition when at that time they ran out of food.

Removed text that is beyond scope of the actual article

These Virginians had been coming to the Kanawha Valley Region "to Treat" (Celeron's term) since the days of Abraham Woods and legends have it earlier. See WIKI articles West Virginia Prehistory, West Virginia Waterways and Monetons Conaughy (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Accuracy
Per the above discussion and those at Mingo and Logan, I have added an Accuracy tag. Ruhrfisch ><> ° ° 18:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The material is not normally found in main stream publications. See the following articles West Virginia Prehistory, West Virginia Waterways and Monetons. I am eager to remove anything you suspect or disagree. The main importance in this research has nothing to do with providing WIKIPEDIA this research. It is in benefit for our state's scholars in studies. I removed these once before and was asked to return the material by Wikipedians. As said, I'll gladly retract any and all I've shared here. The sharing of biblio and source was not originally meant for WIKI. This may have been a mistake on my part in sharing sources with WIKI editors which was orginally meant with local universities scholars of anthropology and history. Their kind of "Papers" are not wrote for popular reading, but, for those in the field of study. Again, delete what you understand not which will save me from deleting everything. Simply take the time to edit it...sometimes, banner placing on an article is meaningless. It's easier to delete the whole thing than guess which may or may not be the objection. I've been "myth busting" our local stories for over four decades in these subject maters and some tellings have credence and other do not. Please delete that of which you do not like for in some of our clans it becomes political, anyways. Conaughy (talk) 22:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed unnecessary biblio, I did not write the suspected sentenses, but just the quote blocks for clarity. I'm not sure how to assist in finding credibility of suspect sentenses through which citations may or may not apply from my own research notes. I could paraphrase what I am sometimes asked to lecture here at the museum or that of which appears across the street at the State Park of the "Battle of Point Pleasant". But, I have not the authority other than occasional assisting those historians of the State's Cultural Center. There have been several versions or "treatments" written in times passing about Dunmore's War. I mean not to offend by providing citations from and regardless of which "version" one is reading and may or may not be citing which source. Conaughy (talk) 00:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyvios?
Under section Mobilization and movement there is a blockquote from a book (12 lines of text) that doesn't qualify as "fair use" for criticism or commentary - it's used as an expository part of the article, and properly cited. But citing doesn't excuse a copyvio. That text has been there a long time, and I'm loathe to delete it without some further corroboration. If it is deleted, we need to fill in there. Anyone?Sbalfour (talk) 22:41, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Deleted. Upon review, it is blatent copyvio, besides sheer speculation without any documentary evidence to support it.Sbalfour (talk) 21:59, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

There's yet another chunk of text directly above it, copied from another book. I'm blockquoting it to make it stand as a quote, until I can verify that it's a copyvio, too.Sbalfour (talk) 22:24, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Focus of the article
Lord Dunmore's War is basically the Battle of Point Pleasant, about which there is only about half a paragraph. There is stultifying detail including primary documents pasted into the article, about the preliminaries, Cresap's War, etc. I think we can shrink this stuff down by a factor of at least 3, and expand the actual war/battle part. The article needs revamped for focus and proper exposition.Sbalfour (talk) 22:02, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

 * I know it's been years, but are you still interested in cleaning this up? This article has gotten my attention and I have some time to help.  In some other articles we've cleaned up, I've started by simply trying to get everything in some sort of order.  If I can re-arrange things so they're more or less chronological, is that a good place to start? Canute (talk) 14:07, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I've put in some legwork on this article to make it chronological. Any help is welcome. I'm not the caretaker of the article (no one is). So yes. chronology is a good place to start. The bare couple of sentences on the Battle of Point Pleasant could be a major section if expanded, and certainly should be. The McDonald's stuff is new to me - did he report to Dunmore? Sbalfour (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Motivation?
I recently read that part of Dunmore's motivation to engage the Shawnee was to inhibit or obviate any claim(s) Pennsylvania might make in Ohio Country. If anyone has a reference, cite it here, and I'll write up a paragraph, Sbalfour (talk) 20:18, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

 * I've been trying to figure out what to call Pennsylvania. They weren't a belligerent in the war, but they certainly seem to be an antagonist against Virginia stemming from their border dispute.  Pennsylvanians took deliberate actions that made things more difficult for Virginia.  I'm not sure what the right term is. Canute (talk) 19:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Cresap's raids section
Cresap's raids section is the longest in the article, and only minorly relevant. There were two events, and the whole section could be shrunk to a couple of sentences about those, similar to the ones about the preceding Boone party attack. I struggle thru the section trying to divine something singularly important, when there just isn't. Sbalfour (talk) 19:28, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

McDonald Expedition
Angus McDonald is listed in the infobox under commanders & leaders, but he is not mentioned in the article. I have added a brief paragraph about his expedition against the Shawnee, which preceded the Battle of Point Pleasant. It needs more work. Canute (talk) 13:04, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I realize that McDonald's expedition is now significantly larger than the Battle of Point Pleasant, so it might have undue weight. Would it be better to add more details to the small section on Point Pleasant, or spin off details from McDonald's expedition into a new article? Canute (talk) 19:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Dragging Canoe
A sentence in the Aftermath section calls Dragging Canoe a "renegade." I know he broke away from the other Cherokee to continue white settlers, and that he received aid from the British in doing so. But even so, "renegade" doesn't seem like a very NPOV term. Let me know if I'm wrong. Canute (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Fixed. If "dissident" is still too strong, how about "disgruntled"?  His was obviously a splinter group, later called the Chickamauga. Sbalfour (talk) 23:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lord Dunmore's War