text:
User talk:Durin

 R  E   T   I   R   E   D ]

'''Due to legal threats, this user left Wikipedia in August 2007. More information on my departure may be found at User:Durin/Departure. '''

Sorry
I'm terribly sorry for removing your notice, it was an accident. I was just reading through the archives, and forgot it was a past edition. Sorry about that. And I'm sorry if you don't want messages posted on this page now, but I wanted to contact you somehow! I don;t mind if you delete it again. I'm very sorry to see that you've left, and thankyou for your contributions. Good luck in life my friend, and sorry about my mistake before.  Lra drama 18:26, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

:-(
Sorry to see you go, Durin. I've seen nominal legal threats before, but I've never seen a note of pending litigation. How appalling. I was wondering when you might slow down editing (in relation to your earlier comments regarding lack of desire to edit), but I didn't realize it would close so quickly. :(

Best wishes in whatever endeavours you pursue. --Iamunknown 18:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * You're one of the best, and have been enormously useful to Wikipedia. I'm terribly sorry to see this, and hope somehow that it will be sorted out. Good luck, and thank you for always answering my questions so patiently and helpfully. ElinorD (talk) 18:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * What a nasty way to end an otherwise fine wiki-career. I know you'd been telling me for months you'd been on the brink of leaving, but I always thought you'd stay anyway. This is just... horrible. My second friend to leave Wikipedia in 3 days :(  Majorly  (talk) 18:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Seriously? Right when I was about to join Durin's Fair Use Army full-time?!?! E kala mai. A hui hou, Durin. --Ali'i 18:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Someone still has to do the job.  Majorly  (talk) 18:55, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * More like 10 people to equal the quality output Durin was creating. :-) But hopefully this is just a minor, temporary thing, and Durin will return shortly. --Ali'i 18:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * There's a slim chance I will return, but it's a Michael Jordan-esque "That 1% is for me and you can't have it". I'm in contact with the people who are prosecuting this investigation. Pending outcome of that, I *might* return. But, Majorly is right. I've been pondering leaving for a while for a variety of reasons. This isn't the final straw; that analogy is incorrect. It's more like the impact event theorized for the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event. It is astonishing to me that someone would go to such lengths over a handful of images. It's not worth it to me. I am a volunteer here. To put myself in the line of fire for lawsuits over images that I didn't create, didn't copy, didn't publish and didn't use is absurd. Frankly, and bluntly, I'm tired. I've been under near constant onslaught of all sorts of very nasty wikipedians who work arduously to bring me down simply because I uphold the Foundation's directives and this local project's policies. Everybody has their tolerance limit. I was near it before this event. This event easily doubled how much crap I have to tolerate, and I'm now well beyond my limit. The bastards won. I've just checked my e-mail from e-pol.org, and sure enough I'm part of the investigation. Absolutely unreal. God help you all that work to uphold your policies. These people will stop at nothing to have their way. --Durin 19:44, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Still, what will they get out of it? At least you can claim you've made an online encyclopedia a better place for everyone.  Lra drama 19:51, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * :-o Un-fucking-believable. --Ali'i 19:53, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * You took the words right out of everyone's mouth there mate.  Lra drama 19:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ali'i nailed it...I've only been in contact with you for a few days, Durin, but you've been an excellent source of info and decently rational discussion about the image removal process, and I'll miss your input. Keep us posted on how this process goes.  Best wishes to you.  Willbyr (talk | contribs) 20:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Well that sucks. Do I have to assume that your offer to have a couple of beers and punch each other in the face is also off the table? At least consider coming back for doing a bit of editing: just like Jordan, you'll eventually miss the game as much as the game misses you. In the meantime, take care. Pascal.Tesson 21:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm so very sorry to see you go. Best wishes in this & everything else. Pete.Hurd 21:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if it has to end this way, Durin. I certainly hope that you will return if this is settled. Out of all the people I have come into conflict with here on Wikipedia, you are the most civil and patient by far. Here's to hoping everything turns out alright! Regards,  You Can ' t Review Me!!! 23:12, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Not right
This sucks. Hope you will be back soon. This "e-pol" stuff really doesn't sound right to me. I've never heard of e-pol. I tried finding out more on Google, but found nothing but their own website. There are virtually no backward links to e-pol.org. I looked at the whois information, and it doesn't seem right to me. I have doubts about e-pol, and recommend you do not give e-pol any information. Also, the fact that Danna's first contributions were so recent, on August 22. The first edit was to a wikiproject page, the next to create their userpage, and the following to create their talk page. Smells like a duck, walks like a duck... This just doesn't sound right. --Aude (talk) 21:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * E-pol.org calls themselves "Electronic Protection Online Programme" or Electronic - Protection Online Programme" with the hyphen. Searching Google for "Protection Online Programme"  and spelling variations turns up nothing.  Zero results.  If this was legit, even if some aspects of what they do are secret and confidential, there would still be something about it on Google.  This definitely doesn't seem right to me. --Aude (talk) 21:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Nor me, but the complainant bringing this is obviously quite energized and willing to go to unreal lengths in their aggression against me. --Durin 21:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Aude, good research. I tried at whois at register.com, and the website was registered in April of this year?? Go to http://www.register.com/whois.rcmx and type "e-pol.org". Weird. --Iamunknown 21:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Come say hello. Nick 21:50, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I did a bit of research myself. Seems connected to some sort of hoax or donation fraud. See my comments on ANI. In any case the websites of the related organizations are all as laughable as the one of e-pol.org. Supposedly, it's part of the "United Network for Universal Aid" and you should try and google that for fun... Pascal.Tesson 22:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * From what I can tell, E-POL's activities seem to be limited to sending you that e-mail, and having a website. Nothing else. DS 23:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * The e-pol website is really quite creepy. If you click on the log tab it gives you a message that reads "Your IP and computer ID have now been logged". Wha??!! I didn't consent to that... Seriously something creepy about that website. I can see why this would make someone want to retire. Seraphim  Whipp 01:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Your IP is logged on Wikipedia and can be checked through RFCU in case of abuse, it's no different here. Anytime you go to a site, you consend to letting them know your IP unless your using TOR, or something else. — M o e   ε  01:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I was aware of that your IP is recorded with every website but I wasn't aware it recorded your computer ID, *stupid moment* . I guess it's also the manner in which the message reads to be honest. When added with the claims of "We can trace you precisely" and that kind of message that they are giving out about legal action, it's creepy.  Seraphim  Whipp 12:03, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

 * What is going on with those guys of e-pol? I crossed swords with them a while ago but I thought they were at the WTC when the 9/11, can someone brief me? Meteoguy 18:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sigh
This is wrong. Don't let the bastards wear you down. Ignore the bogus legal threat and continue fighting the good fight. Corvus cornix 21:55, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

:-o No!
I can't believe this. I know my only contact with you was an MFD war but you were a fine contributer. Please come back!. See also: User:Pheonix15/Useful links/Retired Wikipedians--Pheonix15 22:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

astroview120mm userboxes
A user by the name of Durin has placed criticism on my talk page involving an oven that killed another user that I have not heard of before now. In case you are still here, I must tell you something: I did not invent User oven; I did however, use some userboxes from other user pages, which may have had hidden information that I did not see. I also do not actually remember placing "user oven" on my page. Please see my contributions or my user page history. You may be making this up. Astroview120mm 23:55, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Come back
I've seen you around the project and admired your edits. Always calm, rationale and patient! Please come back...

Seraphim Whipp 00:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Templating the regulars
Please do not withdraw from building the encyclopedia. Doing so violates Wikipedia's don't let the bastards grind you down policy and impoverishes the encyclopedia. If you would like any help with anything, please use the secret channel. Thank you.John 06:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed here. You're a good guy, if you need a break by all means take one, but I sure hope to see you around again. Regardless, I wish you the best. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Your departure may be part of a virtuous (or vicious) circle... *sigh* -- nae'blis 23:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I miss Durin
Wish you could be enticed or convinced to return, Durin. Don't be griefed away. —  pd_THOR  undefined | 06:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Durin, we'll miss you
He might have been a little bossy but he was a great wikipedian and I was little disrespectful to him. Durin if you are reading this don't listen to those legal-threating bastards. All of us miss you! Don't listen to those gay pricks! Sorry about the bad word. And I hope that by you reading this message * sniffle *, you'll come back!--Angel David 21:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

You did the right thing
I read your farewell essay. I'm really sorry that you and those you care about have had bad experiences with litigation, but I have to agree with everyone else here that you shouldn't worry about it. I'd be surprised if anyone actually tried to pursue legal action against you. That being said, I think you made the right decision to leave Wikipedia. There was a time when I was in the bandwagon against you, angry about your crusade against images (although, thankfully, I never acted against you). After a time, I came to wonder why you were doing all the scutwork for administrators that wouldn't support you. I was glad to read that you thought about it, too.

It's nice that Wikipedia has lofty ideals about free content, but I believe that it's a better, more useful encyclopedia with the fair use images. The fact that nobody has yet taken legal action against Wikipedia for the use of these images (according to one of you old talk pages, I believe), does not prove that it will never happen. It is, however, a good indicator that it's very unlikely to happen, and I still believe that the enforcers of this unfortunate Wikipedia policy are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Regardless, they are clearly not serious about enforcing their policies, and I respect your decision not to put yourself through hell for them any longer. I suggest you find a project that cares as much about you as you do about it. I have faith that you'll find it and I wish you the very best of luck.

P.S. Don't sweat the legal crap. The ball's in their court and there's no sense in you worrying about something that will probably never happen and that you have little control over at this point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.107.37.211 (talk) 20:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Codelyoko193
I know you might not remember me, and you most likely won't read this, but you removed fair use from my userpage. I then gave you my special award. Goodbye, and farewell. Thanks, Codelyoko193  Talk 18:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

 * It seems as though he made two edits on October 5th. Hm... Thanks, Codelyoko193  Talk Contributions  00:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Who knew?
Hey, Durin. You most likely have no idea who I am, but after reading your reason for departure, I had to leave a note of support on your talk page. The actions by the antagonist were horribly idiotic (for lack of a better term), and taking legal action against you was unjustified. I don't see what illegal actions you did, all you did was notify the user of the law of the land (in this case, the land is Wikipedia), and even if in some way the images were donated to a "foundation for children," why would legal action be necessary? And anyway, if she were to take legal action, why would it be against you? What if I was the one that notified her of the images? Would I be the target of legal action? Shouldn't she be suing Wikipedia, if suing at all? What I'm trying to say is, why did you retire because of legal action? As far as I know (and, I've gotta admit, I'm not a lawyer, so steer me in the right direction about this whole matter if I'm wrong), you did nothing illegal. I just thought I had to leave this message because I felt that the antagonist had no right to steer you into retirement. Regards, IT'S DA... Ανέκδοτο 01:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S., I hope no one sees me calling the aforementioned user an antagonist as a personal attack, because it's not. It's just my version of a joke.

Husnock
Durin, I'm going to tell Husnock/OberRanks to stop uploading and editing images on pain of blocking. Hopefully, he will do so. If he refuses, I will indef him myself. I don't give a darn if he keeps insisting he's not Husnock, it is painfully apparent to everyone that he is. It's probably best to just ignore his protests about that. If he wishes to edit, he can edit text only. Neil  ☎  17:14, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Shhh...
Aloha and welcome back... in whatever limited form it may be. Please try and not let the fairusabusers get you down. You're important to the freedom (freedomness?) of the project. Mahalo. --Ali'i 15:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Demologoimage.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Demologoimage.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 13:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Long ago comments
Hi Durin. I saw your comments over at the Arbcom request page, so hopefully you are still around to see this. I just wanted to thank you again for the long ago comments you made on my talk page about how I should accept an RfA nomination. It took a while, but I eventually did go for it, and I linked to your comments in my statement there. I'm still practicing with the tools before I start using them properly, but it was really your comments (along with some others later) that made me realise that I was procrastinating too much. Hope to see you around more in the future. Carcharoth 11:22, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

List of Wikipedia editors by edit count
Please explain what the 'problem' with listing the edit count of 'placeholder' is...

Also, I thought you were 'retired' but I guess not... Ryoung122 18:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to endlessly debate this. I've stated my reasons a bunch of times. You are not respecting the wishes of the people who do not want to be on this list. Hell, you even forced ME back on the list. You're not even following the instructions on the list. Back off. --Durin 18:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Demologoimage.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Demologoimage.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Demologoimage.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Demologoimage.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 18:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * not orphan? —   pd_THOR  undefined | 18:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Still here?
You are still in wikipedia? lol i tought u have retired.-Wandering wikipedian-130.216.30.233 01:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Demologoimage.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Demologoimage.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 02:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

:-)
Good to see you around, if only for a little bit. :-) --Iamunknown 06:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

 * "Frankly, I can't believe I am getting this much grief for stating a position with respect to this candidate" [ (diff)] - unless you've been monitoring RfAs recently, you have no idea how aggressive everyone has gotten. :-(  Well, I guess you do, since you are now experiencing it first hand!  But still...  :-\  --Iamunknown 21:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

New York Yankees logo
I've started a discussion about this at WP:MCQ - I was going to notify you, but saw the retired tag and didn't realize you were actually still active; I didn't notice until just now that you were the one that tagged Image:Crossed_N_and_Y.jpg. —Random832 22:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Omma miss ya
You're one of the few admins who had the whole adminship thing right. :( Vael Victus (talk) 17:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --Durin (talk) 14:44, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Review of Fair Use pictures
Are you still around? If yes, could you please review the apparently non-free images in the article Ungdomshuset. I'm talking at the black and white pictures in the clearance section. I'm not sure about what policy covers these or where to go to have them reviewed. --Peter Andersen (talk) 17:57, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
I just came to visit my old friend, Durin, to find out that he quit Wikipedia! I'm sad, because although the first time I met you on Wikipedia, I thought you were unfriendly for removing my images, I got to know you, and you're a really nice guy. I hope you decide to join Wikipedia again. Cheers always. :) -- Cuyler 91093  minhas contribuções  17:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

rollback
has been given back to you (now live for non-admins), as an encouragement to edit here more ;). NoSeptember  19:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:TeslaBandLogo.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:TeslaBandLogo.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 01:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:LittoralCombatShip-ArtistsRendering.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:LittoralCombatShip-ArtistsRendering.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

 * 1) Go to the media description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Rettetast (talk) 13:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:5Wlogo.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:5Wlogo.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:CityofBloomingtonSeal.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:CityofBloomingtonSeal.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 06:16, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Image:Coburnpharr04-edits.gif listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Coburnpharr04-edits.gif, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Jordan 1972 (talk) 12:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Image:IceKarma-edits.gif listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:IceKarma-edits.gif, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Jordan 1972 (talk) 23:51, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

File:Shanel-edits.png listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Shanel-edits.png, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Skier Dude ( talk ) 06:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

File:Shauri-edits.gif listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Shauri-edits.gif, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Skier Dude ( talk ) 07:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Betacommand/Fair use overuse explanation
User:Betacommand/Fair use overuse explanation, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Betacommand/Fair use overuse explanation and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of User:Betacommand/Fair use overuse explanation during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. — PyTom (talk) 04:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:LCU1627.jpg
File:LCU1627.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:LCU1627.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case:. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 04:36, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * File:HMAS Canberra FFG-02.jpg is now available as Commons:File:HMAS Canberra FFG-02.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 12:21, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Commons de-adminship warning
Hi. Please see Commons:User talk:Durin. Thanks! — Jeff G. ツ 17:53, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:ICIS-logo.jpg
 Thanks for uploading File:ICIS-logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:09, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

File:CoolCat-edits.png listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:CoolCat-edits.png, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Skier Dude ( talk ) 20:25, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

File:HallMonitorEditSummaryUsage.png listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:HallMonitorEditSummaryUsage.png, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 (talk) 15:15, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:USS Merrill DD-976.jpg
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:USS Merrill DD-976.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 22:50, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Notice of change
Hello. You are receiving this message because of a [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Administrators&oldid=526254016#Restoration_of_the_tools_.28proposal.29 recent change] to the administrator policy that alters what you were told at the time of your desysopping. The effect of the change is that if you are inactive for a continuous three year period, you will be unable to request return of the administrative user right. This includes inactive time prior to your desysopping if you were desysopped for inactivity and inactive time prior to the change in policy. Inactivity is defined as the absence of edits or logged actions. Until such time as you have been inactive for three years, you may request return of the tools at the bureaucrats' noticeboard. After you have been inactive for three years, you may seek return of the tools only through WP:RFA. Thank you.  MBisanz  talk 00:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

File source problem with File:USS John Young DD-973.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:USS John Young DD-973.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

If the necessary information is not added within the next days, the image will be deleted. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

Please refer to the image use policy to learn what images you can or cannot upload on Wikipedia. Please also check any other files you have uploaded to make sure they are correctly tagged. Here is a [ list of your uploads]. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 21:22, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:00, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

File:DD985crest.gif listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:DD985crest.gif, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. ATTENTION : This is an automated, bot-generated message. This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 23:55, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DD977crest.gif

The file File:DD977crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "orphaned image, unlikely to be used in the future. File:USS Briscoe (DD-977) patch.png is currently in use and expected to be used in the future."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ★ Bigr   Tex  21:28, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Overdrive (Final Fantasy X listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Overdrive (Final Fantasy X. Since you had some involvement with the Overdrive (Final Fantasy X redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:26, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DDG62crest.gif

The file File:DDG62crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:02, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:SSN755crest.gif

The file File:SSN755crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:01, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DD983crest.gif

The file File:DD983crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Redundant to File:DD-983 crest.png which is hosted on Commons"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 10:00, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DD978crest.gif

The file File:DD978crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Redundant to File:DD-978 crest.png which is hosted on Commons"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 10:05, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DD979crest.gif

The file File:DD979crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Redundant to File:DD-979 crest.png which is hosted on Commons"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 10:07, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DD980crest.gif

The file File:DD980crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Redundant to File:DD-980 crest.png which is hosted on Commons"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 10:14, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:DD982crest.gif

The file File:DD982crest.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Redundant to File:DD-982 crest.png which is hosted on Commons"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Salavat (talk) 10:16, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

You're invited! Wiki Loves Pride in Indianapolis
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 19:19, 13 June 2022 (UTC).)

July 28: You're invited! Food Deserts & Food Policy in Indianapolis editathon
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 08:54, 18 July 2022 (UTC).)

File:SSN755crest.gif listed for discussion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:SSN755crest.gif, has been listed at Files for discussion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. --Minorax «¦talk¦» 14:13, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

You're invited! Environmental Justice editathons in Indianapolis & Bloomington
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 01:52, 10 October 2022 (UTC).)

You're invited! In-person WikiConference North America Meetup in Indianapolis!
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 17:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC).)

Proposed deletion of File:TalriasonTowerBridge.jpg

The file File:TalriasonTowerBridge.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Unused, low-res, no obvious use, better files at c:Category:Tower_Bridge."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. --Minorax «¦talk¦» 05:29, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

March 17: You're invited! Indiana Women in the Arts editathon
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 21:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC).)

You're invited! Indiana Politics & Government Editathon on Saturday, May 13
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 01:27, 5 May 2023 (UTC).)

You're invited! Wiki Loves Pride in Indianapolis
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 16:30, 19 June 2023 (UTC).)

You're invited! Indiana State Fair Wiknic on Sunday, July 30
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 13:53, 22 July 2023 (UTC).)

You're invited! Underrepresented Artists of Indiana editathon on Oct. 11
(You can unsubscribe from future notifications for Indiana-area events by removing your name from this list. Sent on 00:49, 5 October 2023 (UTC).) "

Proposed deletion of File:Talriasambulance2.jpg

The file File:Talriasambulance2.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Modified version of File:Saint.john.ambulance.london.arp.jpg with no clear encyclopedic purpose."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Logan Talk Contributions 23:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

title: User talk:Durin


text:
Crofton Roman Villa

Crofton Roman Villa in Crofton, Orpington, in the London Borough of Bromley, is a Roman villa which was inhabited between approximately 140 and 400 AD. It was the centre of a farming estate of about 500 acre, with farm buildings nearby, surrounded by fields, meadows and woods. The house was altered several times during its 260 years of occupation, and at its largest it probably had at least 20 rooms. The remains of ten rooms can be seen today. Two rooms contain the remains of "opus signinum" floors, and three have evidence of tiled, or "tessellated", floors. Details of an underfloor central heating hypocaust can also be seen, featuring both channelled and pillared systems, as can small finds from the site.

The villa is adjacent to Orpington railway station, and is not far from Lullingstone Roman Villa, near Eynsford, Kent.

Discovery
The site was discovered in 1926, when workmen were preparing a driveway for some new council offices, and unearthed some Roman artefacts. Preliminary archaeological investigations at the time established the existence of the villa, but the site was not fully investigated until 1988, when further work was carried out by the Kent Archaeological Rescue Unit (KARU). Details of their findings were published in a book in 1996. The site is protected within a modern building.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Crofton Roman Villa


text:
Talk:Kate Pierson

Untitled
kate is currently working on her solo album in her woodstock studio - along with writing a new album with the B-52's due out SEptember 2006

I am removing "It was a very depressing job", refencing to her nursing. If anyone has any objections, feel free to put it back in.

Ummm "She was the subject of my first fantasy masturbatory experience at age 11."? Refrence?

Bisexuality reference
The link listed as a reference to her bisexuality just talks about her motel. -Branddobbe 05:56, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

The link that was listed mentioned her life partner, Monica Coleman, who runs the motel with her. http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/motel-chic/?page=6 The link and mention of her sexual orientation should be restored. Ztavrqs 21:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That link describes Monica simply as Kate's "partner," in a sentence about her duties at the motel. That could be describing a business rather than personal relationship, and is by no means a sufficient source for info about Kate's sexuality. Rob T Firefly 20:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Monica Coleman, 41, in addition to being Pierson’s partner, is the co-owner and general manager of Kate’s Lazy Meadow Motel, the person responsible for the day-to-day operation of the nine-plus-acre compound." Clearly, it is a reference to sexuality, as the business relationship is defined after that. 12.5.1.207 (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Pierson's self-identified as bisexual. The only really reliable source in all of that is the article from Gay.com, where it says:
 * ...In an exclusive interview, Pierson told in newsweekly that, like her male band members, she's swinging the other way; she's been dating a woman for almost a year now, her first same-sex relationship, and she giggles when she says that she supposes that makes her a lesbian.

 * Also, in this article in the New England Blade, Pierson identifies herself as being bisexual:  Kate Pierson's 2005 announcement (exclusively for me in the pages of In Newsweekly, thank you!) that she's "wild and bisexual." I'm not going to get into editing the article, but the sources seem to back up the bisexual identification, rather than lesbian. DanielEng (talk) 03:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Looking at one of the ref's, it seems that she's identifying herself as a "Lesbian" around 21 seconds into the interview. She should no longer be listed as "BiSexual" since the words actually coming out of her mouth. unless someone can come up with another source, I'm going to change her catagory and references to Lesbian where appropriate. --Hourick (talk) 18:19, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Born 1948?
I find it extremely hard to believe that the gorgeous woman showing off in the video to Love Shack in 1989 is in her forties. The other girl (Cindy Wilson) in the band was ten years yunger. Is Kate's birth date really correct? Sponsianus (talk) 16:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Don't know, since it's not sourced. I've removed the date and place of birth given as April 27, 1948 and Weehawken, New Jersey until it can be sourced. Nightscream (talk) 23:43, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I found several sources with her birthdate, all but one indicate the DOB and place here are correct. Only one indicated she was born in 1952. I'm going to go with the majority on this one, especially since she seems to have been personally interviewed for one of them. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 05:47, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * So a woman in her forties can't be gorgeous? You gotta be kidding me.2602:306:CC42:8340:935:E37:8B3D:884D (talk) 04:02, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Circumstantial evidence (what her friends say) confirms that her birthyear was 1948. She entered college (as a frosh) in 1966. MaynardClark (talk) 01:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

B-52s?
Amazing that the article doesn't mention anything about how she ended up meeting the other members of the B-52s... 70.123.157.65 (talk) 20:42, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * She went to college (majored in English). She was a reporter on the college newspaper. She was involved in hippie 'be-ins' in Chicago.  She left one college and transferred to another school in Boston. She married and divorced. She was vegan for a while and did some promotional entertainment for PETA and also for some smaller 'local' animal advocacy groups (before she abandoned vegetarianism).  MaynardClark (talk) 01:54, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Vita
The CV is ridiculously thin. Who does she stem from? What were her jobs between being a pupil and becoming a pop musician? And all of a sudden a hotel manager after a successful pop music career? Questions, questions, questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.157.50.84 (talk) 00:35, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

I think it's written like an advertisement, not only for her, but for 'lgbt', since it leaves out so much of what is actually known about the subject.MaynardClark (talk)

Birthname
Wasn't she born as Catherine Elizabeth Pearson? MaynardClark (talk) 14:55, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Collaborations
The songs Kate Pierson collaborated on R.E.M.'s 1991 Out of Time album were "Shiny Happy People", "Country Feedback" and "Me in Honey". "Radio Song" was a collaboration with R.E.M. and KRS-1. Onshore (talk) 22:02, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kate Pierson


text: User talk:69.128.189.90

title: User talk:69.128.189.90


text: User talk:68.95.37.185

title: User talk:68.95.37.185


text:
Vegetable Lamb of Tartary

The Vegetable Lamb of Tartary (Latin: Agnus scythicus or Planta Tartarica Barometz ) is a legendary zoophyte of Central Asia, once believed to grow sheep as its fruit. It was believed the sheep were connected to the plant by an umbilical cord and grazed the land around the plant. When all accessible foliage was gone, both the plant and sheep died.

Underlying the legend is the cotton plant, which was unknown in Northern Europe before the Norman conquest of Sicily.

Characteristics
Thomas Browne's Pseudodoxia Epidemica named it as the Boramez.

In Ephraim Chambers' Cyclopædia, Agnus scythicus was described as a kind of zoophyte, said to grow in Tartary, resembling the figure and structure of a lamb. It was also called Agnus Vegetabilis, Agnus Tartaricus and bore the reported endonyms of Borometz, Borametz and Boranetz.

In his book, The Vegetable Lamb of Tartary (1887), Henry Lee describes the legendary lamb as believed to be both a true animal and a living plant. However, he states that some writers believed the lamb to be the fruit of a plant, sprouting forward from melon-like seeds. Others, however, believed the lamb to be a living member of the plant that, once separated from it, would perish. The vegetable lamb was believed to have blood, bones, and flesh like that of a normal lamb. It was connected to the earth by a stem, similar to an umbilical cord, that propped the lamb up above ground. The cord could flex downward, allowing the lamb to feed on the grass and plants surrounding it. Once the plants within reach were eaten, the lamb died. It could be eaten, once dead, and its blood supposedly tasted sweet like honey. Its wool was said to be used by the native people of its homeland to make head coverings and other articles of clothing. The only carnivorous animals attracted to the lamb plant (other than humans) were wolves.

Possible origins
The Greek historian Herodotus wrote of trees in India "the fruit whereof is a wool exceeding in beauty and goodness that of sheep. The natives make their clothes of this tree-wool."

There is mention of a similar plant-animal in Jewish folklore as early as AD 436. This creature, called the Yeduah (,, or ), was like a lamb in form and sprouted from the earth connected to a stem. Those who went hunting the Yeduah could only harvest the creature by severing it from its stem with arrows or darts. Once the animal was severed, it died and its bones could be used in divination and prophetic ceremonies.

An alternative version of the legend tells of the "jeduah", a human-shaped plant-animal connected to the earth from a stem attached to its navel. The jeduah was believed to be aggressive, though, grabbing and killing any creature that wandered too close. Like the Barometz, it too died once severed from its stem.

The Minorite Friar Odoric of Pordenone, upon recalling first hearing of the vegetable lamb, told of trees on the shore of the Irish Sea with gourd-like fruits that fell into the water and became birds called Bernacles. He is referring to the legendary plant-animal known as the barnacle tree, which was believed to drop its ripened fruit into the sea near the Orkney Islands. The ripened fruit would then release "barnacle geese" that would live in the water, growing to mature geese. The alleged existence of this fellow plant-animal was accepted as an explanation for migrating geese from the North.

In his work The Shui-yang or Watersheep and The Agnus Scythicus or Vegetable Lamb (1892), Gustav Schlegel points to Chinese legends of the "watersheep" as inspiration for the legend of the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary. Much like the vegetable lamb, the watersheep was believed to be both plant and animal, and tales of its existence placed it near Persia. It was connected to the ground by a stem and, if the stem were severed, it would die. The animal was protected from aggressors by an enclosure built around it and by armored men yelling and beating drums. Its wool was also said to be used for fine clothing and headdresses. (In turn, the origin of watersheep is an explanation for sea silk.)

In search of the legend

Earlier versions of the legend tell of the lamb as a fruit, springing from a melon or gourd-like seed, perfectly formed as if born naturally. As time passed, this idea was replaced with the notion that the creature was indeed both a living animal and a living plant. Schlegel, in his work on the various legends of the vegetable lamb, recounts the lamb being born without its horns, but with two puffs of white, curly hair instead.

The 14th century book The Travels of Sir John Mandeville is credited with bringing the legend to public attention in Europe. It describes a strange gourd-like fruit grown in Tartary. Once ripe, the fruit was cut open, revealing what looked like a lamb in flesh and blood but lacking wool. The fruit and the lamb could then be eaten.

Friar Odoric of Friuli, much like Mandeville, travelled extensively and claimed to have heard of gourds in Persia that, when ripe, opened to contain lamb-like beasts.

In the Renaissance, the Lamb of Tartary was a frequent object of philosophical and botanical debate. It became an important heuristic to discuss the natural order of things and the Aristotelian scale of beings. The mid-16th century, Sigismund von Herberstein, who in 1517 and 1526 was the ambassador to the Emperors Maximilian I and Charles V, presented a much more detailed account of the Barometz in his "Notes on Russia." He claimed to have heard from too many credible sources to doubt the lamb's existence, and gave the location of the creature as being near the Caspian Sea, between the Jaick (Ural) and Volga rivers. The creature grown from the melon-like seeds described was said to grow to 2.5 ft, resembling a lamb in most ways except a few. It was said to have blood, but not true flesh, as it more closely resembled that of a crab. Unlike a normal lamb, its hooves were said to be made of parted hair. It was the favourite food of wolves and other animals.

In 1698 Sir Hans Sloane claimed a Chinese tree fern, Cibotium barometz, was the origin of the myth. Sloane found the specimen in a Chinese cabinet of curiosities he acquired. The "lamb" is produced by removing the leaves from a short length of the fern's woolly rhizome. When the rhizome is inverted, it fancifully resembles a woolly lamb, with the legs being formed by the severed petiole bases.

The German scholar and physician Engelbert Kaempfer accompanied an embassy to Persia in 1683 with the intention of locating the lamb. After speaking with native inhabitants and finding no physical evidence of the lamb-plant, Kaempfer concluded it to be nothing but legend. However, he observed the custom of removing an unborn lamb from its mother's womb in order to harvest the soft wool and believed the practice to be a possible source of the legend. He speculated further that museum specimens of the fetal wool could be mistaken for a vegetable substance.

In poetry
In Erasmus Darwin's work The Botanic Garden (1781), he writes of the Borametz: E'en round the Pole the flames of love aspire, And icy bosoms feel the secret fire, Cradled in snow, and fanned by Arctic air, Shines, gentle borametz, thy golden hair Rooted in earth, each cloven foot descends, And round and round her flexile neck she bends, Crops the grey coral moss, and hoary thyme, Or laps with rosy tongue the melting rime; Eyes with mute tenderness her distant dam, And seems to bleat – a vegetable lamb

Guillaume de Salluste Du Bartas writes of the vegetable lamb in his poem La Semaine (1587). In the poem, Adam wanders the Garden of Eden and is amazed by the peculiarity of the creature. Joshua Sylvester translates:

But with true beasts, fast in the ground still sticking Feeding on grass, and th' airy moisture licking, Such as those Borametz in Scythia bred Of slender seeds, and with green fodder fed; Although their bodies, noses, mouths, and eyes, Of new-yeaned lambs have full the form and guise, And should be very lambs, save that for foot Within the ground they fix a living root Which at their navel grows, and dies that day That they have browzed the neighboring grass away. Oh! Wondrous nature of God only good, The beast hath root, the plant hath flesh and blood. The nimble plant can turn it to and fro, The nummed beast can neither stir nor goe, The plant is leafless, branchless, void of fruit, The beast is lustless, sexless, fireless, mute: The plant with plants his hungry paunch doth feede, Th' admired beast is sowen a slender seed.

In his work Connubia Florum, Latino Carmine Demonstrata (1791), De la Croix writes of the vegetable lamb (translated):

For in his path he sees a monstrous birth, The Borametz arises from the earth Upon a stalk is fixed a living brute, A rooted plant bears quadruped for fruit, …It is an animal that sleeps by day And wakes at night, though rooted in the ground, To feed on grass within its reach around.

Cultural references

 * Denis Diderot wrote an article about the vegetable lamb, agnus scythicus, in the first edition (1751) of the Encyclopédie. After describing the purely vegetable nature of the so-called lamb, he noted: "This article will give us the occasion to express more useful ideas against superstition and prejudice than merely to question the usefulness of the Scythian lamb as a cure for spitting blood."
 * In the manga series Monster Musume, the characters Cott and Ton are portrayed as anthropomorphized Barometz.
 * In the video game Odin Sphere, the heroes can plant Baromett seeds and harvest sheep from them for hit point replenishment and recipes.
 * The manga Delicious in Dungeon depicts a Barometz plant whose fruit naturally grows into the shape of a sheep, but taste like crab.
 * In the 18th episode of Little Witch Academia anime series, characters Constanze and Akko require a Barometz plant for the development of the Stanship Mecha.
 * In the Madou Monogatari RPG series and its puzzle game spin-off series Puyo Puyo, there is an enemy character named Baromett, who is depicted as a sheep whose lower half is covered in an oversized red tomato.

title: Vegetable Lamb of Tartary


text:
User talk:Cynoclast

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --JYolkowski 01:41, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

title: User talk:Cynoclast