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USS Williamson

USS Williamson (DD-244/AVP-15/AVD-2/APD-27) was a Clemson-class destroyer in the United States Navy during World War II. She was named for Commander William Price Williamson.

Williamson was laid down on 27 March 1919 and launched on 16 October 1919 by the New York Shipbuilding Corporation, sponsored by Commander Williamson's widow, reclassified from Destroyer No. 244 to DD-244 in the Navy's fleet-wide assignment of alphanumeric hull numbers on 17 July 1920, and commissioned at the Philadelphia Navy Yard on 29 October 1920.

1920s
The new destroyer was partially fitted out at Philadelphia into mid-December. After calibrating compasses in Delaware Bay, she received the remainder of her torpedo equipment at the Naval Torpedo Station, Newport, Rhode Island, before her fitting-out was completed at the New York Navy Yard.

Williamson departed New York on 3 January 1921, bound for Europe and, after proceeding via Bermuda, arrived at Brest, France, in company with USS Sands (DD-243), on 16 February. She remained in French and British waters - calling at Cherbourg, France; and Gravesend and Portsmouth, England - into the spring before sailing for the eastern Mediterranean on 23 May.

Assigned to U.S. Naval Forces in Turkish waters, Williamson arrived at Ineboli (now Inebolu), Turkey, on 22 June. There, she landed passengers and investigated local political conditions. At intervals in the ensuing months, Williamson made cruises from Constantinople to Odessa, Russia; Ghelenjik Bay; Novorossiysk; and Theodosia, before returning to Constantinople. She made another cruise to Odessa on 22 June 1922, delivering passengers and serving for a time as station ship there. On 2 July, the destroyer departed that port, bound for Constantinople, and transferred stores en route to her relief, USS Bulmer (DD-222). Six days later, Williamson headed for Gibraltar on her way to the United States and arrived back at Philadelphia on 27 July.

After joining the Atlantic Fleet at Hampton Roads, on 6 September, Williamson shifted to New York for exercises and gunnery drills before she returned to Hampton Roads on 28 September for further exercises off the Virginia Capes in the Southern Drill Grounds. The destroyer operated off the eastern seaboard and at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, participating in war games and routine battle practices into early 1923. She returned to the New York area in November of that year, engaging, at intervals, in more rehearsals and gunnery drills. She departed New York on 6 May 1924 for maneuvers with the Scouting Fleet.

After returning to New York for voyage repairs, the destroyer sailed for the Southern Drill Grounds on 19 May and arrived at Hampton Roads on the 28th to conduct depth charge practices before she returned to Newport, Rhode Island, to take part in high speed target and torpedo practice at the Naval Torpedo Station. Later, Williamson participated in the search for a life boat missing from the steamer SS Boston and made a cruise to Guantanamo Bay in company with USS King (DD-242), USS McFarland (DD-237), and USS James K. Paulding (DD-238) before returning to New York on 8 December.

Over the next few years, Williamson's routine remained fairly standard for vessels of her type in active service. She cruised off the east coast of the United States and into the Caribbean, operating at intervals out of Guantanamo Bay during the annual Fleet concentrations there. However, there were breaks in this routine. Although Williamson operated primarily with Destroyer Squadrons, Scouting Force, she spent a brief period in January and February 1927 in the Special Service Squadron operating off the east coast of Nicaragua during an outbreak of revolutionary violence.

After returning to the New York Navy Yard on 30 June 1927, Williamson trained Naval Reserve units off the eastern seaboard.

In 1928 it arrived in Havana harbour, as escort for USS Texas which had President Coolidge aboard as he was going to attend the Pan-American conference.

Overhauled in the spring of 1928, the destroyer conducted additional reserve training cruises into 1930. Highlights in the ship's activities during that time were plane-guarding for USS Lexington (CV-2) in Guantanamo Bay in May 1930 and an extended reserve cruise that took her to Mayport, Florida, the Dry Tortugas, Key West, and Rebecca Shoals and Havana, Cuba.

1930s
Williamson continued operating off the East Coast into mid-1931 as part of Destroyer Division 9, Flotilla 1, Scouting Force, before she shifted to San Diego, California, in March 1932, to operate briefly off the West Coast in the spring before returning to the East Coast. Upon reaching Norfolk, Virginia on 17 December 1932, Williamson was placed in rotating reserve. She subsequently sailed on 1 July 1933 bound, via the Panama Canal Zone, for the West Coast; arriving at San Diego on 21 July, the ship plane-guarded for USS Saratoga (CV-3) during the summer.

Williamson returned to the East Coast in the spring of the following year and, in July 1934, was one of the escorts for USS Houston (CA-30) while President Franklin D. Roosevelt was embarked in that heavy cruiser. The destroyer subsequently proceeded to the Washington Navy Yard on 19 July 1934. There, she received an early sonar installation before sailing for the West Coast, returning to San Diego in November. She later underwent a rotating reserve overhaul in the summer of 1935 before joining Destroyer Squadron 3.

That summer, Williamson cruised to Alaska and, operating from Auke Bay, visited Portage Cove, Skagway, and Juneau, while patrolling coastal waters between 20 July and 31 July. Returning to San Diego on 9 August, Williamson conducted battle problems and local operations from that port with the other ships in her division into 1936.

Sailing for Balboa on 9 May 1936 to participate in Fleet Problem XVII in June, Williamson later underwent an overhaul at the Norfolk Navy Yard. She subsequently operated in the Gulf of Mexico and proceeded thence via Mobile, Alabama, and the Panama Canal to San Diego, where she arrived on 30 October 1936.

Williamson conducted local operations out of that port into the winter and plane-guarded for USS Ranger (CV-4) in February 1937, before shifting to Hawaiian waters in the spring. Arriving at Pearl Harbor on 25 April, Williamson operated in the Hawaiian Islands with other units of the Destroyer Force of the United States Fleet until she returned to the West Coast in June. She operated off the West Coast for the remainder of 1937 and returned to Pearl Harbor in January 1938 for an overhaul in the navy yard there. She then took part in Fleet Problem XIX and, upon the conclusion of those exercises, returned to San Diego on 28 April 1938. She then shifted to the East Coast, arriving at Philadelphia on 2 June for conversion to a new and special type of auxiliary vessel.

With the increase in patrol plane forces in the Navy at that time, there arose in the Fleet's air wings an urgent need for tenders to support such aircraft. Accordingly, two flush-deck Clemson-class destroyers were chosen for conversion to light seaplane tenders: Williamson and USS Childs (DD-241).

As the conversion work proceeded into the autumn, all torpedo gear was removed from both ships, as were two of each ship's 4-inch guns, the 3-inch antiaircraft gun, their depth charge tracks, and the forward two boilers. Additional deckhouse space was added forward. Internal arrangements were changed to accommodate the personnel of a 12-plane patrol plane (VP) squadron and a supply of aviation gasoline. A boat derrick was added to the existing searchlight tower structure to handle a pair of 30-foot motor launches to be used for tending the planes in the water. The ship retained her forward and aftermost 4-inch guns, and four .50-caliber machine guns were added for antiaircraft defense.

As experimental vessels, Williamson and Childs – simultaneously reclassified on 1 July 1938 to AVP-15 and AVP-14, respectively – would soon prove successful. And, although more ships of their type were added to the Fleet prior to World War II, Williamson and Childs were the trailblazers.

On the last day of 1938, the conversion was complete. Painted pale gray and wearing the hull number "15" and displaying the red-centered blue and white star which indicated her aviation affiliation, Williamson departed Philadelphia on 3 January 1939, bound for Norfolk. There she took on board men and material from Patrol Wing (PatWing) 5 and soon headed for the Florida Keys where she provided tender services to VP-15 before returning to Philadelphia on 11 March 1939 for a post-shakedown availability.

After shifting briefly to Newport, Williamson sailed for the West Coast on 21 April. Proceeding via San Diego, the light seaplane tender made port at Seattle, Washington, and reported to Commander, PatWing 4 for temporary duty. She operated off the California coast from 26 May to 23 August before shifting to Kodiak, Alaska, to service two patrol squadrons, VP-41 and VP-42.

While Williamson was tending PBY Catalinas in the Pacific Northwest, war broke out in Europe on 1 September 1939, when Germany invaded Poland.

That autumn, Williamson operated out of Seattle and shifted to the Puget Sound Navy Yard on 5 February 1940 for an overhaul. She got underway for the Hawaiian Islands on 5 April and participated in Fleet Problem XXI before returning to Seattle on 21 May for a period of local operations and upkeep at Naval Air Station (NAS) Seattle. That summer, on 2 August 1940, she was again re-classified—this time as AVD-2.

On 4 March 1941, Williamson recovered three crew of a Douglas TBD-1 Devastator which ditched after engine failure, ~5 miles W of Mission Beach, California. The aviators successfully deployed a dinghy and were rescued after ~30 minutes by Williamson. This rare TBD was rediscovered in 1996, and in February 2011, the National Museum of Naval Aviation at NAS Pensacola, Florida, announced plans to recover and restore the rara avis.

Before the entry of the United States into the war in December 1941, Williamson spent the last of her peacetime months engaged in valuable survey work between Acapulco, Mexico, and the Aleutian Islands. In the summer of 1941, the seaplane tenders and planes of PatWing 4, under the direction of Rear Admiral John S. McCain – later to become the famed task force commander – conducted an intensive survey of possible advance seaplane base sites in the Aleutians and along the Alaskan peninsula work that paid dividends within a year.

World War II
7 December 1941, found Williamson under overhaul at the Puget Sound Navy Yard. After temporary duty with Destroyer Squadron (DesRon) 82, she helped to escort USS Maryland (BB-46) into the Puget Sound Navy Yard on 30 December. The tender completed her repairs and took on stores in January 1942 and then shifted to the Aleutians to resume her duties as a tender for the PBY's of PatWing 4.

1942
During the early wartime period, the ship performed local escort missions and delivered war materials to Army and Navy bases at Cold Bay, Seattle, Dutch Harbor, and Kodiak. Williamson and her sister tenders also stocked emergency seaplane bases with vital necessities: buoys, gasoline, lubricating oil, ammunition, and bombs. Those temporary sites provided shelter for PBY's forced down by weather and proved valuable as alternate bases dispersed well enough to prevent a complete disaster if the Japanese attacked the established base sites. In addition, Williamson rescued and salvaged PBY's closed out of their havens by the "notorious Alaskan fog."

On 20 May, prior to the Japanese invasion of the Aleutians, Williamson rescued Brigadier General Simon Bolivar Buckner from Kiska, when the general and his party were stranded there by 60-knot winds that prevented seaplanes from taking off after completing an inspection tour of the Near and Rat Island groups.

Early in June 1942, when the Japanese occupied Kiska and Attu in the Aleutians, as a diversion from the major Japanese thrust directed at the key atoll of Midway in the Central Pacific, Williamson lay at Umnak Pass, near the newly established Army airstrip there - the westernmost field in the Aleutian chain. Two Japanese planes from one of the carriers supporting the operation (either JAPANESE AIRCRAFT CARRIER Ryūjō or JAPANESE AIRCRAFT CARRIER Junyō) strafed the ship and wounded six men. Fortunately, there were no fatalities.

Williamson, in company with USS Casco (AVP-12), later set up an advanced seaplane base at Chernofski and supported the PBY squadron assigned the mission of bombing the Japanese troops on Kiska Island until Army planes could take over the task. On 23 June, after having established the advanced site, the destroyer-seaplane tender left the Aleutians and steamed to Seattle for badly needed repairs.

After returning to Dutch Harbor in August, she proceeded to sea on the 25th to attempt the rescue and salvage of a PBY down at sea in extremely rough weather. During the operation, Williamson was attempting to take the damaged Catalina in tow when a wave threw the PBY against one of the tender's propeller guards. The shock of the collision dislodged a pair of depth charges from the plane's wing shackles, and the resultant explosion wounded 16 men and blew one man over the side into the water. Efficient damage control, however, managed to localize the flooding aft, where the most severe damage was located. All hands bailed out the flooded spaces by an old-fashioned, but effective, method - the "bucket brigade."

While returning to Dutch Harbor, Williamson was shadowed by a Japanese patrol plane but made port without further incident. There, Seabees reinforced the damaged hull with "I" beams taken from a dismantled hangar. This enabled Williamson to creep back to Seattle on one engine at nine knots via Kodiak, Yakutat, and the scenic Alaskan Inside Passage.

1943
By the time Williamson's repairs had been completed, newer, more modern AVP's were entering the Fleet, and the need for Williamson's tending planes was lessening considerably. She was accordingly reclassified APD-27 and, on 3 January 1943, was ordered to support the shakedown training of escort carriers. Williamson served as plane guard and escort for carriers operating in the Puget Sound and San Diego operating areas. Those carriers included USS Core (CVE-13), USS Card (CVE-11), USS Long Island (CVE-1), USS Barnes (CVE-20), USS Nassau (CVE-16), USS Altamaha (CVE-18), USS Breton (CVE-23), USS Copahee (CVE-12), USS Casablanca (CVE-55), USS Corregidor (CVE-58), USS Anzio (CVE-57), USS Tripoli (CVE-64), and USS Natoma Bay (CVE-62). During that time, Williamson picked 14 men from the water after accidental crashes.

Relieved from that shakedown duty in the spring of 1943, Williamson supported the invasion and occupation of Kiska and Attu in April and May 1943. On 15 May 1943, four torpedo wakes passed close to the ship, her closest call of the campaign and, indeed, her last brush with the Japanese in the Aleutian theater.

Returning to San Diego late in the spring of 1943, Williamson briefly trained with submarines and then resumed escorting and plane-guarding for carriers on their shakedown cruises. On 1 December 1943, Williamson was reclassified back to her original classification: DD-244.

After repairs at the Mare Island Navy Yard in January 1944, Williamson sailed for the Hawaiian Islands on 24 January, arriving six days later. The destroyer departed Pearl Harbor on 7 February, bound for the South Pacific. She proceeded via American Samoa to Espiritu Santo and performed escort duties between Guadalcanal and Funafuti, in the Ellice Islands, until early April, when she joined Task Unit (TU) 34.6.4 for screening operations in the New Guinea area. Refueling areas included those between Truk, New Ireland, and the Admiralty Islands.

Upon completion of that assignment, Williamson proceeded to Purvis Bay, Solomon Islands, where she reported to Commander, Group 3, 5th Amphibious Force (Rear Admiral Richard L. Conolly), on 7 May 1944. At that time, the erstwhile seaplane tender was again chosen for special duty.

Gear was installed for underway fueling of scout observation planes from battleships and cruisers to enable the planes to spot gunfire for their parent ships without having to be recovered by them. Rehearsals in the Guadalcanal area proved that Williamson's new rig was suitable for fueling OS2U Kingfisher and SOC Seagull scout planes. With her new equipment thus tested, Williamson departed for Kwajalein, the final staging point for the Marianas operation, on 1 June. Nine days later, on the 10th, the destroyer got underway for the first operational test of the underway refueling concept which had been developed by Rear Admiral Walden L. Ainsworth.

Upon her arrival at Saipan on 14 June, Williamson reported for duty to Admiral Ainsworth (Commander, Bombardment and Gunfire Support Force) and commenced refueling scout planes. Williamson's service enabled the ships on the bombardment lines to conduct almost uninterrupted gunfire support for the landings then in progress. On the 16th, she took up her duties fueling the spotter planes of the ships bombarding Japanese positions on Guam.

Williamson soon returned to Saipan, however, as the approach of a Japanese Fleet made a consolidation of American forces desirable. The ensuing Battle of the Philippine Sea resulted in the withdrawal of the enemy force and freed the Americans to resume operations in the Marianas. On 17 June, while conducting screening duties, Williamson rescued a Japanese merchant seaman from the water two days after his ship had been sunk. After giving him a bath, medical attention, and food, Williamson transferred the man to USS Indianapolis (CA-35).

The destroyer departed Saipan on 25 June and arrived at Eniwetok on 3 July. Six days later, Williamson sailed once more for Guam and in ensuing days again operated as refueling unit for spotter planes during the invasion and occupation of Guam. Once the landings had been made, Williamson acted as a terminal vessel for mail and passenger seaplanes arriving from Eniwetok, until 16 August. During the Guam operation, Williamson had a brush with the Japanese when a shore battery near the town of Agat, on the west coast of the island, opened fire. However, as the ship's commanding officer reported, "getting underway and opening the range solved this problem."

Williamson departed Guam on 16 August and proceeded to Pearl Harbor, escorting a convoy. She was overhauled at the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard before she operated as plane guard and carrier escort for Carrier Division 11. From the autumn of 1944 until 8 January 1945, the destroyer provided escort and plane guard services for USS Ranger (CV-4), Saratoga, USS Bataan (CVL-29), Corregidor, and USS Makassar Strait (CVE-91). During that time, Williamson rescued seven men while on plane guard station.

1945
On 10 January, Williamson joined the 5th Fleet and sortied from Pearl Harbor, bound for the Carolines. After upkeep at Ulithi, Williamson took part in rehearsal operations at Saipan and Tinian for the impending invasion of Iwo Jima the target in the island-hopping campaign.

Upon completion of those practice exercises in the Marianas, the Iwo Jima-bound task forces headed for their objective. Again, as at Saipan and Guam, Williamson performed her unique services for the bombardment phase of the Iwo Jima operation. In addition, she rescued the survivors of two carrier planes which had ditched nearby; provided medical and damage control assistance to a badly damaged LCI; rescued an LCM that had drifted 20 miles from Iwo Jima; kept watch on a damaged PBM Mariner (carrying members of the press) until the arrival of a seaplane tender group; and transferred one of her own crew to USS Nevada (BB-36) for an emergency appendectomy.

With the completion of the bombardment phase on 26 February, Williamson headed for Saipan with a number of damaged landing craft. On some days making a "speed of advance" of only three knots to allow the landing craft to keep up, the destroyer ultimately reached her destination, where she parted company with the landing craft and proceeded independently to Ulithi where she prepared for the invasion of Okinawa.

Reaching Okinawa on 25 March, Williamson operated as an antisubmarine screening vessel and spotting plane refueling unit with Fire Support Group 1. On the 28th, the destroyer rescued a fighter pilot whose aircraft had been damaged by antiaircraft fire and forced to ditch nearby. Once the invasion forces went ashore on 1 April, Williamson joined the Seaplane Base Unit in Kerama Retto and refueled ship-based, patrol, and transport float and seaplanes, as well as furnished aviation gasoline to battleship and cruiser aviation units.

After three weeks in the forward area, during which time frequent air raid alerts became the routine, Williamson departed the Ryūkyūs and returned to Guam. She acted as a plane guard and an escort for carriers training in the Marianas. During that period, she made one escort trip to Ulithi and one to Leyte and Samar and provided her services to USS Hoggatt Bay (CVE-75), USS Nehenta Bay (CVE-74), USS White Plains (CVE-66), USS Manila Bay (CVE-61), Velio, USS Vella Gulf (CVE-111), USS Makin Island (CVE-93), Makassar Strait, and Casablanca. While on plane guard station, she rescued three downed aviators.

After operating in that capacity through the cessation of hostilities with Japan in mid-August 1945, Williamson headed via Pearl Harbor for the West Coast and arrived at San Diego on 25 September 1945. She transited the Panama Canal on 10 and 11 October and reached Philadelphia on the 16th. Decommissioned on 8 November 1945, the veteran destroyer was struck from the Navy List on 19 December 1945.

Sold through the Navy Disposal Agency on 17 October 1946, her hulk was acquired by the North American Smelting Company, and removed from Navy custody on 30 October 1946. She was scrapped shortly thereafter.

Awards
Williamson earned four battle stars for her World War II service.

As of 2012, no other ship has been named Williamson.

title: USS Williamson


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User talk:I heart dorks

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title: User talk:I heart dorks


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Argument Clinic

"Argument Clinic" is a sketch from Monty Python's Flying Circus, written by John Cleese and Graham Chapman. The sketch was originally broadcast as part of the television series and has subsequently been performed live by the group. It relies heavily on wordplay and dialogue, and has been used as an example of how language works.

Plot
After the episode's end credits have scrolled, the BBC 1 mirror globe appears on screen, while a continuity announcer (Eric Idle) introduces “five more minutes of Monty Python’s Flying Circus.” In the ensuing sketch, an unnamed man (Michael Palin) approaches a receptionist (Rita Davies) and says that he would like to have an argument. She directs him to a Mr. Barnard who occupies an office along the corridor. The customer enters an office in which Barnard (Graham Chapman) hurls angry insults at him. The customer says that he came into the room for an argument, causing Barnard to apologize and clarify that his office is dedicated to “abuse”; “argument” is next door. He politely sends the customer on his way before calling him a "stupid git" out of earshot.

The customer enters the next office, where Mr. Vibrating (John Cleese) is seated. The customer asks if he is in the right office for an argument, to which Vibrating responds that he has already told him he is. The customer disputes this, and the men begin an argumentative back-and-forth exchange. Their exchange is a very shallow one, consisting mostly of petty and contradictory “is/isn't” responses, to the point that the customer feels that he is not getting what he paid for. They then argue over the very definition of an argument until Vibrating rings a bell and announces that the customer's paid time has concluded.

The customer is dissatisfied and tries to argue with Vibrating over whether he really got as much time as he paid for, but he insists that he is not allowed to argue unless he is paid for another session. The man finally relents and pays more money for additional arguing time, but Vibrating continues to insist that he has not paid, and another argument breaks out over that issue. He believes that he has caught Vibrating in a contradiction—arguing without being paid—but Vibrating counters that he could be arguing in his spare time. Frustrated, the customer storms out of the room.

He proceeds to explore other rooms in the clinic; he enters a room marked “Complaints” hoping to lodge a complaint, only to find that it is a complaint clinic in which the man in charge (Idle) is complaining about his shoes. The next office contains another man, Spreaders (Terry Jones), offering “being-hit-on-the-head lessons”, which the customer finds a stupid concept. At that point a Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Fox “of the Light Entertainment Police, Comedy Division, Special Flying Squad” (Chapman) intervenes and declares the two men under arrest for participating in a confusing sketch. However, a second officer, Inspector Thompson’s Gazelle “of the Programme Planning Police, Light Entertainment Division, Special Flying Squad“ (Idle) comes in and charges the three for “self-conscious behaviour”, saying “It's so and so of the Yard” every time the police appear, and for ending a sketch by having a police officer intervene.

As he realizes that he is a part of the skits’ absurdity, another policeman (Cleese) enters the room to stop Thompson’s Gazelle, followed by a hairy hand stopping him, and the sketch ends. Afterwards, the globe ident appears on screen while the announcer introduces “one more minute of Monty Python’s Flying Circus.”

Writing
The sketch parodies modern consumer culture, implying that anything can be purchased, even absurd things such as arguing, abuse, or being hit over the head. The sketch was typical for Cleese's and Chapman's writing at the time, as it relied on verbal comedy. Python author Darl Larsen believes the sketch was influenced by music hall and radio comedy, particularly that of the Goons, and notes that there is little camera movement during the original television recording.

One line in the middle of the sketch, "An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a definite proposition" was taken almost verbatim from the Oxford English Dictionary.

Performances
The sketch originally appeared in the 29th episode of the original television series, entitled "The Money Programme", and was released (in audio only) on the LP Monty Python's Previous Record, on Charisma Records in 1972.

The sketch was subsequently performed live at the Hollywood Bowl in September 1980, which was filmed and released as Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl. The sketch features the discussion with the receptionist (played here by Carol Cleveland), the abuse from Chapman, and most of the argument between Cleese and Palin. It is then ended abruptly by the entrance of Terry Gilliam, on wires, singing "I've Got Two Legs". A further live performance occurred in 1989 at the Secret Policeman's Ball, where Cleveland's and Chapman's roles were replaced by Dawn French and Chris Langham. This performance was subsequently released on DVD. The sketch was performed again in July 2014 during Monty Python Live (Mostly), with Terry Jones filling in for Chapman's role and Gilliam reprising "I've Got Two Legs".

Cultural references
The sketch has been frequently used as an example of how not to argue, because, as Palin's character notes, it contains little more than ad hominem attacks and contradiction, and does not contribute to critical thinking. It has also been described as a "classical case in point" of dialogue where two parties are unwilling to co-operate, and as an example of flawed logic, since Palin is attempting to argue that Cleese is not arguing with him.

The text of the argument has been presented as a good example of the workings of English grammar, where sentences can be reduced to simple subject/verb pairs. It has been included as an example of analysing English in school textbooks. The sketch has become popular with philosophy students, who note that arguing is "all we are good at", and wonder about the intellectual exercise one could get from paying for a professional quality debate.

The Python programming language, which contains many Monty Python references as feature names, has an internal-only module called "Argument Clinic" to pre-process Python files.

The sketch is referenced in a line of dialogue in the TV show House, season 6, episode 10, 'Wilson'. The character Dr. Wilson says to Dr. House "I didn't come here for an argument", to which House replies "No, right, that's room 12A", echoing the lines from the 'abuse room' in the Argument Clinic sketch.

title: Argument Clinic


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Talk:Axiom of infinity

Capitalization and second order logic
Q: aren't capital names and variables reserved for second-order logic? $$\exists x \lbrack \emptyset \in x \land \forall y(y \in x \rightarrow \cup \lbrace y, \lbrace y \rbrace \rbrace \in x) \rbrack$$ --Alterego 01:54, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * If you want to quantify both over first-order and second-order things you might want to make that convention or another which makes the distonction clear. Since we are working entirely in first-order here we don't need to restrict ourselves as to the variables which we use. Using a variable name which has the right associations can help people a lot in understanding a formula. MarSch 12:13, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't want to, but the article does. I guess it is a convention of set builder notation? --Alterego 15:11, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Specification to remove unwanted elements?
What specification are you using to remove unwanted elements?

I am not sure exactly what you mean by using the axiom schema of specification to remove unwanted elements. The schema allows one to remove elements from a set which do not satisfy a particular predicate. However as far as I can see, there is no such predicate applicable in this case.

In fact, the "standard" way to do this is to just take all inductive subsets of some inductive set and find their intersection, but even this I believe to be fundamentally flawed (I'll not go into this here, though). Kidburla2002 9 July 2005 12:45 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I fully understand what you're getting at. That said, it's clear that you're basing your discussion on intuitive set theory, which is not what this article is about. This article is about axiomatic set theory, which starts with first principles defined abstractly, regardless of pre-theoretic intuitions. The most common version is Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory (ZF), which is a simple axiomatic theory, expressed in predicate logic, of what the symbol $$\in$$ means. ZF is a single-sorted theory, i.e., it makes no distinction between set-variables and objects and non-set variables and objects. ZF simply says that certain sets exist (e.g. the empty set) and how to form sets from existing sets (e.g. pairing). It turns out that for finite, well-founded sets, ZF matches everyone's intuitions about sets quite nicely. But it's precisely the various kinds of infinite sets that it's hard to have pre-theoretic intuitions about: everybody has encountered finite collections of physical objects, but nobody has encountered infinite collections, so it's a bit hard to have intuitions about how they should behave. The axiomatic approach is useful because it makes precise how all sets must behave, without having to rely on intuitions which people can disagree about. Most of the axioms say trivial things (e.g., "there is an empty set", which, by the way, does not mean the same as "there is no set" as you suggest) which are necessary for an approach based on logic where you want to be able to prove everything from first principles. The present axiom of infinity simply says that there exists a set with a certain recursive property. (It doesn't actually say that the set whose existence is postulated is infinite or is related in any way to the natural numbers. These notions require additional definitions and conventions.) The recursive property is explained in the article: the infinite set is such that if it contains a set x, then it also contains what you might call the successor of x (which is the set $$x\cup\{x\}$$). Note that the existence of sets which contain the empty set and finitely many successors follows from the other axioms of ZF. But it is not possible to prove the existence of a set which contains the empty set and all of its successors from the remaining axioms of ZF, hence the need for the present axiom which explicitly asserts that such a set exists. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 08:04, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

 * You might be missing the point here. The article says
 * This set S may contain more than just the natural numbers, forming a subset of it, but we may apply the axiom schema of specification to remove unwanted elements, leaving the set N of all natural numbers.
 * To paraphrase: "Infinity asserts the existence of a superset of omega, separation can be used to get exactly omega." What predicate can be used to do this separation? -Dan 17:18, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

ω is the set of natural numbers. n is a natural number iff $$\lbrack n = 0 \lor \exists y(n = y\prime) \rbrack \land \forall x \in n \lbrack x = 0 \lor \exists y \in n(x = y\prime) \rbrack \!$$. That is, n is a natural number iff it is either zero or a successor and each of its elements is either zero or a successor of another of its elements. This uses the axiom of regularity. JRSpriggs 06:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * There is more about this at Talk:Natural number. JRSpriggs 04:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

 * JRSpriggs - In what sense does the "intersection" formulation not ensure the limitation of the natural numbers? Given weak induction and ZFC we can basically prove all the second-order properties of natural numbers, since the power set axiom allows us to quantify over all subsets of $$\omega$$.  I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here.  Is it an issue of nonstandard models?  Also, I thank you for your edits on the "Alternate" section, although I think it still needs work, since any reference to the actual axiom of infinity has been removed. Jayferd (talk) 17:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I was not thinking of any specific abnormal "natural numbers". Rather, I was thinking about how I would prove that the natural numbers have the kind of structure which they do have. You are correct, that I had forgotten a kind of argument which works for most properties. Although I think there is still some difficulty proving that the natural numbers under ∈ are trichotomous. JRSpriggs (talk) 10:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

 * What I meant by the ZFC remark before was that any system which can prove the second-order Peano axioms completely determines $$\omega$$ - in the sense that any two systems which both satisfy the following three axioms (where 'Sx' means 'the successor of x', in our case $$x \cup \{x\}$$) will be isomorphic:

 * $$\forall x(Sx \neq 0)$$
 * $$\forall x\forall y(Sx = Sy \to x = y)$$
 * $$\forall A \subseteq \omega (0 \in A \wedge \forall x(x \in A \to Sx \in A) \to A = \omega).$$

 * Both constructions prove all three of these claims. To get trichotomy, what Enderton does in Elements of Set Theory is first he proves two straightforward lemmas:  that $$\forall m \forall n(m \in n \leftrightarrow m^+ \in n^+)$$, and that $$\forall n(n \notin n)$$.  It follows easily that at most one of the three trichotomy conditions holds.  To show that at least one holds, he does the following:

 * We claim that $$T = \{n \in \omega:(\forall m \in \omega)(m \in n \vee m = n \vee n \in m)\}$$ is inductive. First, we claim $$0 \in T$$; that is, $$\forall x(x = 0 \vee 0 \in x)$$.  But clearly $$0 = 0$$ and if $$x = 0 \vee 0 \in x$$ then in either case $$0 \in x^+$$.  Now assume that $$x \in T$$.  For any $$m \in \omega$$, we have two cases by inductive assumption.  If $$m \in x$$ or $$m = x$$, then $$m \in x^+$$.  If $$x \in m$$ then by the lemma $$x^+ \in m^+$$, so either $$x^+ \in m$$ or $$x^+ = m$$; in either case we are done.  Jayferd (talk) 03:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Could you expand and clarify that last part a little? Where does x appear after your assumption that x∈T? JRSpriggs (talk) 19:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

 * To Jayferd: You must revert your reversion of my change to your section. Proper classes are do not exist in ZFC; you cannot legitimately use them in any proof. JRSpriggs (talk) 19:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

 * To JRSpriggs - My bad on both counts. Changed $$k$$ to $$x$$ in the last part of the above proof.  Also, I think I can restructure my argument to say:  There exists a unique set whose members are exactly those which are in every inductive set, i.e. the axiom of infinity + specification proves $$\exists! \omega\forall x(x \in \omega \leftrightarrow \forall I (\Phi(I) \to x \in I))$$.  My bad for revising without checking first. Jayferd (talk) 00:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) OK, I see how it is done now. The inductive hypotheses, on n, which one might want to use include: $$n = 0 \lor \exists m \in \omega (n = m^+),$$ $$\forall m \in n (m \in \omega),$$ $$\forall m \in n \forall k \in m (k \in n),$$ $$n \notin n,$$ $$\forall m \in n (m^+ \in n^+),$$ $$\forall m \in \omega (m \in n \lor m = n \lor n \in m).$$ JRSpriggs (talk) 23:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

what does this symbol mean?
What does $$\forall k \in n(\bot)$$ mean? What is the $$\bot$$ symbol? -lethe talk [ +] 16:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

 * $$\bot$$ is a logical symbol that means "false". It is often taken as an atomic formula that is identically false. So $$\forall k \in n(\bot)$$ means $$n = \varnothing$$.  In a theory with equality, $$\bot$$ can be simulated by not equals: $$n = \varnothing \Leftrightarrow \forall k \in n(\bot) \Leftrightarrow \forall k \in n ( k \not = k)$$.
 * This article, like many of the "axiom of ..." articles, could use a good cleaning. CMummert · talk 17:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

If ZFC is consistent ...
(See ) I believe my change is correct. Consider: it could be that ZFC-INFINITY is consistent, but ZFC is not. Then the axiom of infinity could not be derived from the other axioms, even though ZFC would be inconsistent, as claimed. Now the sentence could read "If ZFC without the axiom of infinity is consistent, then..." and this would also be correct, but I think that this weaker condition ought to be omitted. I don't know offhand what exactly it is, but the proof-theoretic strength of ZFC-INFINITY must be quite modest. --99.245.206.188 (talk) 08:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

 * As Independence (mathematical logic) correctly says, "a sentence σ is called independent of a given first-order theory T if T neither proves nor refutes σ; that is, it is impossible to prove σ from T, and it is also impossible to prove from T that σ is false". That is, for the axiom of infinity to be independent of the other axioms of ZFC means that neither it nor its negation can be deduced from them. If ZFC is inconsistent, then $$ZFC \vdash \bot \,$$ which is the same as $$(ZFC - Infinity) + Infinity \vdash \bot \,$$ which (by the deduction metatheorem) implies $$(ZFC - Infinity) \vdash \lnot Infinity \,$$ and thus that the axiom of infinity is not independent.
 * Furthermore, the sentence "The axiom of infinity cannot be derived from the other axioms." means $$(ZFC - Infinity) \not\vdash Infinity \,.$$ However, ZFC minus the axiom of infinity already implies the Peano axioms which, as you know, are subject to Gödel's incompleteness theorems. Thus we cannot be said to know with certainty that ZFC minus the axiom of infinity is consistent. If it turns out to be inconsistent, then it also implies the axiom of infinity which would contradict the sentence in your shortened form. Thus I will again revert you. JRSpriggs (talk) 14:00, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

 * If so, then your reversion is still wrong! You either mean "If ZFC is consistent, then the axiom of infinity cannot be refuted from the other axioms" or "If ZFC without the axiom of infinity is consistent, then the axiom of infinity cannot be derived from the other axioms"

 * If you still don't see it, then let's abstract. Let T be a theory and A an axiom, and suppose that T+A proves the consistency of T. Then:
 * T is inconsistent iff A can be derived from T.
 * T+A is inconsistent iff A can be refuted from T.
 * Correct? Now A is the axiom of infinity, and T is the rest of ZFC.

 * I will include it for now, but I still maintain that "if ZFC-Infinity is consistent" ought to be dropped. I seem to remember, but am not sure, that ZFC-Infinity is actually equiconsistent with PA. Yes, if PA is consistent, then it can't prove it's own consistency, but so what. There are some rare circumstances where we would bother to say "If PA is consistent" (like the previous sentence). But generally not, especially in the context of set theory. I mean, are we going to "fix" the ordinal articles with a bunch of caveats about "if epsilon-naught is well-founded" ? --99.245.206.188 (talk) 16:29, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Consistency of all ZFC implies consistency of ZFC minus the axiom of infinity. Thus the consistency of ZFC does imply both the non-provability of Infinity and the non-provability of it negation from ZFC minus infinity. While it is true that your new formulation is slightly stronger while still being correct, the usual assumption people make when addressing independence questions in set theory is that all ZFC is consistent. I was just trying to make the simplest statement, to wit, consistency implies independence. I will leave your new version alone, if you do not change it further. JRSpriggs (talk) 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Things we all probably know: the axiom of infinity cannot be derived from ZFC without infinity because the hereditarily finite sets are a model of all of ZFC except the axiom of infinity. Thus, in particular, ZFC without the axiom of infinity is consistent and strictly weaker than ZFC with the axiom of infinity. Moreover, if one gets the details right, ZFC minus the axiom of infinity plus its negation is equiconsistent with Peano arithmetic.

 * My take on the article text: I think it is better not to state an assumption of the consistency of ZFC when talking about the consistency of ZFC minus the axiom of infinity, since the latter is so much weaker. We do not say "if Peano arithmetic is consistent" very often, after all, as the IP editor has pointed out. — Carl (CBM · talk) 19:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Alternative Extraction of Natural Numbers
Can't we define the naturals this way?

$$\mathbb{N}:=\{T\in\mathcal{P}(I):\varnothing= T \vee (\varnothing\in T \wedge \forall x\in T \exist y \in T[y\cup\{y\}=x])\} $$ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.29.111.3 (talk • contribs)

 * Not quite. If T contains the empty set, then it cannot have all of its members being successors. JRSpriggs (talk) 14:49, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

A valid alternative would be

$$\mathbb{N}:=\bigcap\{Z\in\mathcal{P}(I):\varnothing\in Z \wedge \forall x \in Z(x\cup\{x\}\in Z)\} $$

as the arbitrary intersection of transitive sets is again transitive. Thus the natural numbers could be called the unique smallest transitive set. This is from Halmos. Naive Set Theory. 1960. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.29.111.3 (talk) 04:50, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

“I ⊃ ℕ”
The article says that I is a superset of the naturals. Could someone prove to me that this is? I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but ℕ is such that 0 ∈ ℕ, and ∀x ∈ ℕ, successor(x) ∈ ℕ. This seems to match very much with the definition of I, only that ø is used instead of 0, and x ∪ {x} is in place of successor(x). PicoMath (talk) 21:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 * It does NOT say that I ≠ N; is that your problem?
 * So what? Is that not what you expect? JRSpriggs (talk) 23:29, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Axiom of infinity


text:
Danny Nucci

Danny Nucci (born September 15, 1968) is an American actor. He is best known for his supporting roles in blockbuster films, including his roles as Danny Rivetti in Crimson Tide (1995), Lieutenant Shepard in The Rock (1996), Deputy Monroe in Eraser (1996), and Fabrizio de Rossi in Titanic (1997), as well as his lead role as Mike Foster in the Freeform series The Fosters (2013–2018).

Personal life
Danny Nucci was born on September 15, 1968 in Klagenfurt to a Jewish family. His family had emigrated from Morocco to Italy and then to Austria. After Austria, his family immigrated to the New York City when he was still a child.

After temporarily living in Queens, the family settled in the San Fernando Valley, where Nucci graduated from Grant High School. He married Terre Bridgham in 1995, and they had a daughter before their divorce in 1998. He played lovers with Paula Marshall in the 1997 film That Old Feeling; they married in 2003, and have a daughter.

Career
During the 1990s, Nucci played characters who are unceremoniously killed off in three blockbuster films — Eraser, The Rock and Titanic (as Fabrizio De Rossi, Jack Dawson's Italian friend) — which were released within 20 months of each other between 1996 and 1997. His character in Alive (also known as Alive: The Miracle of the Andes) (1993) survives.

Elsewhere in film, he starred as Spider Bomboni in Book of Love (1990) and as Petty Officer Danny Rivetti in the Gene Hackman-Denzel Washington thriller Crimson Tide (1995). He played the roles of Benny Rodriguez in the straight-to-video film The Sandlot: Heading Home (2007) and a Port Authority police officer in World Trade Center (2006).

Nucci appeared as Gabriel Ortega on the CBS soap opera Falcon Crest from 1988 to 1989, and as Vincent Sforza in the television miniseries Firestarter 2: Rekindled (2002). Other notable TV appearances include Growing Pains, Out of This World, Quantum Leap, Family Ties, The Twilight Zone, Tour of Duty, Snoops, Just Shoot Me, House, Without a Trace, Criminal Minds, The Mentalist, CSI: NY, three episodes of Castle and one episode of Arrow. Along with Ernie Hudson, he co-starred in the short-lived police drama series 10-8: Officers on Duty. He provided the voice of Alberto the Chihuahua in The Brave Little Toaster to the Rescue.

In 2010, he portrayed John Gotti in Sinatra Club, and Dante McDermott in the science-fiction film Nephilim. In 2011, he co-starred in the mystery thriller Escapee. Until 2018, Nucci played Mike Foster on the Freeform (formerly ABC Family) drama The Fosters.

Nucci portrayed Pop, the father of main character Felix Funicello, in the 2014 Lifetime television movie Wishin' and Hopin'.

title: Danny Nucci


text:
Second Bill of Rights

The Second Bill of Rights or Bill of Economic Rights was proposed by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on Tuesday, January 11, 1944. In his address, Roosevelt suggested that the nation had come to recognise and should now implement, a second "bill of rights". Roosevelt argued that the "political rights" guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness". His remedy was to declare an "economic bill of rights" to guarantee these specific rights:
 * Employment (right to work )
 * An adequate income for food, shelter, and recreation
 * Farmers' rights to a fair income
 * Freedom from unfair competition and monopolies
 * Decent housing
 * Adequate medical care
 * Social security
 * Education

These rights have come to be known as economic rights; although not to be enshrined within the constitution, the hope of advocating the policy was that it would be 'encoded and guaranteed by federal law'. Roosevelt stated that having such rights would guarantee American security and that the United States' place in the world depended upon how far the rights had been carried into practice. This safety has been described as a state of physical welfare, as well as "economic security, social security, and moral security" by American legal scholar Cass Sunstein. Roosevelt pursued a legislative agenda to enact his second bill of rights by lending Executive Branch personnel to key Senate committees. This tactic, effectively a blending of powers, produced mixed results and generated a backlash from Congress which resulted in passage of the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946. This Act provided funding for Congress to establish its own staffing for committees.

Background
In the runup to the Second World War, the United States had suffered through the Great Depression following the Wall Street Crash of 1929. Roosevelt's election at the end of 1932 was based on a commitment to reform the economy and society through a "New Deal" program. The first indication of a commitment to government guarantees of social and economic rights came in an address to the Commonwealth Club on September 23, 1932, during his campaign. The speech was written with Adolf A. Berle, a professor of corporate law at Columbia University. A key passage read: "As I see it, the task of government in its relation to business is to assist the development of an economic declaration of rights, an economic constitutional order. This is the common task of statesman and business man. It is the minimum requirement of a more permanently safe order of things."

Throughout Roosevelt's presidency, he returned to the same theme continually over the course of the New Deal. Also in the Atlantic Charter, an international commitment was made as the Allies thought about how to "win the peace" following victory in the Second World War. The US' commitment to non-interventionism in World War II ending with the 1941 Lend-Lease act, and later Pearl Harbor attacks, resulted in the mobilisation of the war state. The generous terms of the act, in conjunction with the economic growth of the US were key in allowing the US to establish new global order with the help of Allied powers in the aftermath of war. This motivation to establish a new global order provided the infrastructure for the implementation of an international standard of human rights, seen with the Second Bill of Rights and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Akira Iriye's proposition that the US desired to transform the post war Pacific after their own image is representative of the wider desire to raise global standards to that of the US, feeding into ideals of American Exceptionalism. The effect of wider democratisation and social reform is divulged upon in Francis Fukuyama's The End of History and the Last Man.

Roosevelt's speech
During Roosevelt's January 11, 1944, message to the Congress on the State of the Union, he said the following: "It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. 'Necessitous men are not free men.' People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:
 * The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
 * The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
 * The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
 * The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
 * The right of every family to a decent home;
 * The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
 * The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
 * The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."

Found footage
Roosevelt presented the January 11, 1944, State of the Union address to the public on radio as a fireside chat from the White House: "Today I sent my Annual Message to the Congress, as required by the Constitution. It has been my custom to deliver these Annual Messages in person, and they have been broadcast to the Nation. I intended to follow this same custom this year. But like a great many other people, I have had the 'flu', and although I am practically recovered, my doctor simply would not let me leave the White House to go up to the Capitol. Only a few of the newspapers of the United States can print the Message in full, and I am anxious that the American people be given an opportunity to hear what I have recommended to the Congress for this very fateful year in our history — and the reasons for those recommendations. Here is what I said ..."

He asked that newsreel cameras film the last portion of the address, concerning the Second Bill of Rights. This footage was believed lost until it was uncovered in 2008 in South Carolina by Michael Moore while researching the film Capitalism: A Love Story. The footage shows Roosevelt's Second Bill of Rights address in its entirety as well as a shot of the eight rights printed on a sheet of paper.

Revival
After Roosevelt's death in 1945, President Harry Truman's administration had, within a few years, compromised the New Deal. FDR's third-term vice president, Henry Wallace, launched a presidential bid in 1948 with a new party. The Progressive Party platform promoted the opposition party's abandoned Economic Bill of Rights.

In July 1960, at the Democratic National Convention, the party nominated John F. Kennedy for president and Lyndon Johnson for vice president. In the platform, it endorsed the Economic Bill of Rights.

Civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr., a champion of economic justice long before the historic 1963 March on Washington, lobbied for the economic rights bill in a 1968 Look magazine essay, published after his assassination. Key civil rights movement activists A. Philip Randolph and Bayard Rustin in 1966 drafted A “Freedom Budget” for All Americans.

In 2004, legal scholar Cass Sunstein called for a revival of FDR's unfulfilled vision in his book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR's Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever.

In fall 2009, Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story introduced the Second Bill of Rights to moviegoers and generated national, and even international, press.

In his 2020 presidential primary campaign, progressive Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders promoted a 21st Century Bill of Rights.

In 2022, Prof. Harvey J. Kaye and Alan Minsky of Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) launched a campaign for a modern, expanded 21st Century Economic Bill of Rights. At its 2022 convention, the Massachusetts Democratic Party endorsed the PDA proposal.

In her 2024 presidential primary campaign, Democratic Party candidate Marianne Williamson featured the 21st Century Economic Bill of Rights in her platform, interviews and speeches.

title: Second Bill of Rights


text:
User talk:Harley peters

Wow, I'm surprised that you have been here on Wikipedia since September and nobody has ever given you the formal welcome greeting. So if you don't mind, here it is...

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Zzyzx11 | Talk 01:55, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Manual of Style
Hi Harley,

I noticed your edit of the principle of relativity article. Please check the Manual_of_Style The manual of style states:
 * Avoid links within headings.

--Cleon Teunissen | Talk 11:03, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Problem
You listed this edit as "reverting more penis vandalism", however, you removed the accents on the word Pokémon. Edits like that look like vandalism. Do not continue to make misleading edits or you will be blocked. BrokenSegue 18:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Most unusual. I went through the history of some of the pages you reverted on and didn't see the offending pictures...could be the vandal was uploading pictures on top of existing ones and that change was reverted...Anyways, I understand. Sorry for bothering you. BrokenSegue 18:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Interim title
Do not mark things as 'not true' if you truely dont know if they are or not, Georges St. Pierre is fighting for the Interim title at UFC 79.

I do not appreciate cleaning up after users that state something that is false.

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:Harley peters


text:
User talk:JenGe

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Viriditas | Talk 01:56, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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Equilibrium
I just wanted to let you know that you've done some great work on Equilibrium. --Viriditas | Talk 01:56, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey thanks!! If you hadn't guessed it's slightly an obsession of mine.  I absolutely love everything about the film so I try to be very careful if I edit anything here not to be bias.  I'm more concerned with accurate information than opinion.  I also started a page for Kurt Wimmer since his next film UltraViolet should be released by the end of summer. So far I've only added basic "Credits" & "External links." It's nice to have discovered a place like this (Wikipedia). I hadn't a clue that it even existed until a few months ago.  Just so that you know, I was also the one who added all of those quotes for Equilibrium @ Wikiquote.  I was glad to see when you moved the page there so that the navigation would be optimized between the two of them. --JenGe 02:56, 25 Apr 2005
 * It's nice to meet you. I almost didn't see your reply, but your edit on the talk page popped up on my watchlist so I checked anyway.  Most wikipedians will reply on the users page instead of their own page, but not all will do this.  This has the added benefit of letting the other user see your reply immediately when the "new messages" notice is activated (unless they already have your user page on their watchlist).  The drawback to this method is that the discussion won't be threaded.  You might want to experiment with both methods and choose the one you like the most.  I tend to (but not always) take longer and involved talk comments to the article talk page for threaded discussions, and place brief comments on the user talk pages, but that's just me.  It's a real pleasure to find another fan of this film.  BTW, do you know anything about the score?  One of the things that really drew me to the film was the perfect score and mis-en-scene working in harmony together. --Viriditas  | Talk 04:09, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * All I can say is, wow! No live instruments? Amazing.  I hope you will add a version of your talk comment to the film article, as we need a section on the score.  I also wanted to mention that if you didn't like any of the changes I made to your comments, or if you aren't happy with the section titles that I added, that you should go ahead and change it to something more appropriate.   --Viriditas  | Talk 07:41, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I just realized that we should probably add and expand on Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 and Phillip K. Dick's Minority Report in the literary references section.  What do you think?  No hurry on this.  --Viriditas  | Talk 01:25, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, good points. Thanks for the link to the interview. --Viriditas  | Talk 03:29, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kurt Wimmer
I would like to add the date of birth and nationality to the Kurt Wimmer page, but I can't find that data. Is he American? --Viriditas | Talk 01:53, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Children of Men
Well, you should be in charge. You know more about film than most editors. It's good to run into you again. —Viriditas | Talk 22:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:JenGe


text:
Talk:Alligator lizard

Untitled
I believe this article is describing just one variety of alligator lizard, not the whole range of them, so I've added an tag. Kappa 01:57, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation page?
There are two types of "alligator lizards" on Wikipedia Southern Alligator Lizard and Northern Alligator Lizard - maybe we should convert this to a disambiguation page that refers to both. --Jtalledo (talk) 14:30, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

alligator lizard
are alligator lizards poisonaness or toxic 2600:1010:B152:3857:2D9D:377:12AE:9631 (talk) 23:51, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alligator lizard


text:
User talk:KirkEN

Wow, I'm surprised that you have been here on Wikipedia for a long time and nobody has ever given you the formal welcome greeting. So if you don't mind, here it is...

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
 * How to edit a page
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 * Picture tutorial
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 * Manual of Style
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

Zzyzx11 | Talk 01:57, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Brno
Ahoj. Ještě než odpovím předesílám, že toto je anglická Wikipedie, tudíž diskuse by se měly vést anglicky, aby i ostatní uživatelé věděli, oč běží. Jestli je hrozný nebo ne je věcí názoru. Řekl bych, že obecně panuje snaha používat jednotný infobox u všech článků na jedno téma, tj. Template:Infobox City u měst. Bohužel, v této šabloně se někdo v poslední době neustále "rýpe" a tak někdy vypadá všelijak. Ano, kdysi jsem převedl údaje ze starého infoboxu do tohoto, z výše uvedeného důvodu. Myslím, že už docela dávno. Od té doby tam další uživatelé přidali spoustu dalších údajů, třeba logo, které způsobují, že infobox vypadá dost chaoticky. – Caroig 19:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

File:Czech Silesia En.png missing description details
Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:Czech Silesia En.png is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

If you have any questions please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 20:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

 * If you post insults to my talk page, I see no point in replying to you! Str1977 (talk) 21:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:KirkEN


text:
Cluny Macpherson (physician)

Colonel Cluny Macpherson (March 18, 1879 – November 16, 1966)  was a physician and the inventor of an early gas mask. After World War I he served as the president of the St. John's Clinical Society and the Newfoundland Medical Association.

Early life
Cluny Macpherson was born in St. John's, Newfoundland to Campbell Macpherson and Emma Duder. He had a brother, Harold.

Macpherson received his early education at Methodist College and at the McGill University Faculty of Medicine from 1897–1901 where he earned his degree in Medicine. He also volunteered with the Royal National Mission to Deep Sea Fishermen, which later became known as the Grenfell Mission. Macpherson began his medical career at the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh. In 1902 he returned to Newfoundland joining the Labrador Mission begun by Dr. Wilfred Grenfell and ran the hospital in Battle Harbour. Remaining there until 1904. He also served as a special constable and justice of the peace. Macpheron later became a director of the Newfoundland and the International Grenfell Associations. He later helped develop the Seamen's Institute (later called the King George V Institute), another Grenfell project. Returning to St. John's, Macpherson opened a private practice, and eventually became the leading practitioner in Newfoundland.

Macpherson started the first St. John Ambulance Brigade in Newfoundland after working with the St. John Ambulance Association. The Brigade had three divisions in St. John's. When World War I broke out, members enlisted in the Newfoundland Regiment. Macpherson organized the volunteers into an Ambulance Unit, which continued throughout the war.

World War I
At the outset of World War I in August 1914 Macpherson was commissioned as a captain and Principal Medical Officer of the new 1st Newfoundland Regiment. He served as the principal medical officer for the St. John Ambulance Brigade of the first Newfoundland Regiment during the war. He saw active service in Belgium and France, at Salonika and later at Gallipoli, and in Egypt. His work was mentioned in despatches twice.

The German army used poison gas for the first time against Allied troops at the Second Battle of Ypres, Belgium on April 22, 1915. Cotton wool wrapped in muslin was issued to the troops by 1 May and followed by the Black Veil Respirator, a cotton pad soaked in an absorbent solution which was secured over the mouth using black cotton veiling. Seeking to improve on the Black Veil respirator, Macpherson created a mask made of chemical absorbing fabric and which fitted over the head. A 50.5 x 48 cm canvas hood treated with chlorine-absorbing chemicals, and fitted with a transparent mica eyepiece. Macpherson presented his idea to the War Office Anti-Gas Department on May 10, 1915, with prototypes being developed soon after. The design was adopted by the British Army and introduced as the British Smoke Hood in June 1915; Macpherson was appointed to the War Office Committee for Protection against Poisonous Gases. More elaborate sorbent compounds were added later to further iterations of his helmet (PH helmet), to defeat other respiratory poison gases used such as phosgene, diphosgene and chloropicrin.

After suffering a war injury in Egypt, Macpherson returned to Newfoundland in October 1916. He served as the Director of Medical Services for the Militia. For his wartime services, he was made a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George in 1918. He retired with the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel.

Later life
Following the war Macpherson had various medical roles including president of the St. John's Clinical Society and the Newfoundland Medical Association. In 1937 he was vice-president of the Newfoundland St. John Ambulance Association in 1937, and later became assistant commissioner of the St. John Ambulance Brigade overseas. Macpherson was also the Registrar of the Newfoundland Medical Board.

During World War II he served in ship convoys in the North Atlantic. He was appointed Honorary Colonel of the 1st Company, Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps in 1957, and was awarded the Canadian Forces Decoration in 1964.

At various times he was chairman of the Lunacy Commissioners, president of the St John Ambulance Council, and vice-president of the Newfoundland Division of the Canadian Red Cross Society. He was a member of the Medical Council of Canada from 1950 and its president in 1954–55. He was appointed a Knight of the British Order of St John of Jerusalem in 1913 and a Knight of Justice in 1955. He was chairman of the Clan Macpherson Association and president of its Canadian branch.

Family
Macpherson married Eleanora Barbara Macleod Thompson, daughter of William Macleod Thompson, of Northumberland County, Ontario on September 16, 1902. They had two children, Emma Allison (1903–1971) and Campbell Leonard (1907–1973). Eleanora was later created OBE and became a Dame of the Order of St John. She died in 1964. Their son, Campbell Leonard, became the third Lieutenant Governor of Newfoundland in 1957, and in 1965 served as president of the Macpherson family business, Royal Stores, Ltd., after the death of his uncle, Harold Macpherson (1884-1963), a breeder and world authority on Newfoundland dogs. Cluny Macpherson lived in St. John's until his death on November 16, 1966.

The family home at 65 Rennie's Mill Road, where he served as secretary, treasurer and registrar for the Newfoundland Medical Society now has historic designation.

title: Cluny Macpherson (physician)


text:
User talk:Mathieumcguire

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Zzyzx11 | Talk 01:57, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

please follow standard naming convention
Please follow standard naming conventions for articles. You moved Taringa railway station, Brisbane to Taringa Railway Station, Brisbane. The standard naming convention is to only capitalise proper nouns, see Naming conventions (capitalization). All the other articles on railway stations in Australia are lowercase, i.e.  railway station, . Thanks. clarkk 04:23, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Following on from the point above, if you do create an improper redirect (as with Toowong Taringa Railway Station, Brisbane), instead of just blanking the page, remember to tag it for speedy deletion, by using the  template. Cheers. Slac speak up!  04:36, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Ipswich
There was a WP:RM request to move Ipswich, Suffolk → Ipswich to move it without a discussion and a new vote is very naughty of you. That you made the move using "cut and past" and not moveing the page with its history is even worse.

Please read WP:RM to see how it should be done. At the moment even your request on WP:RM does not inclue a link to the talk page and you have not put the template or Request moves section onto the talk page. -- Philip Baird Shearer 14:27, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Broken Signature
Your signature is broken. Instead of using the User:Mathieumcguire it is using the page Article Page Mathieumcguire Philip Baird Shearer 15:02, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Brisbane City Council
Hi, I noticed that you added an "attention" tag to the Brisbane City Council article, which you created and I've expanded recently. What suggestions do you have about how it can be improved? Just curious as to why you feel it needs attention. Regards, --Humehwy 09:14, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:GatewayBridgeFromTheAir.JPG
Thanks for uploading Image:GatewayBridgeFromTheAir.JPG. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag, so its copyright status is therefore unclear. Please add a tag to let us know its copyright status. (If you created/took the picture then you can use to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use  .)  If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know on the image description page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Otherwise, see Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use. Thanks so much. Vacuum c 01:45, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Sydney Airport (2004) By Air.jpg
Hi, I noticed you uploaded Image:Sydney Airport (2004) By Air.jpg and tagged it "fairuse". Where did you source the photo from? Thanks/Wangi 14:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, in that case please consider using a more appropriate tag from Image copyright tags since fairuse isn't the right one. Likewise for any other photos you have taken yourself and uploaded. Thanks/Wangi 10:59, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks/Wangi 08:52, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

TransLink routes page
Page title should really be TransLink (South-East Queensland), but anyway:

Divie the bus routes into the 11 regions by following the numbers:

- Brisbane South - 100-199 (excluding Brisbane Central numbers)

- Brisbane East - 200-249

- Eastern Region - 250-299 (yet to be created)

- Brisbane North - 300-399 (some operated by Hornibrook (315) and Brisbane Buslines (399))

- Brisbane West - 400-479 (some operated by Westside (463))

- Western Region - 480-539

- Southern Region - 540-599 (excluding GCL)

- Sunshine Coast - 600-639

- Northern Region - 640-699

- Gold Coast - 700-??? (Yet to be fully implemented - NB: Planning documents indicate up to 759, but some new routes in service are numbered as high as 768; possible that this will go as further than the plans state due to feedback)

- Brisbane Central (Miscellaneous - 190-195; 470; 475; 476 etc - see TransLink site)

In short - go by regions and not by operators; indicate:

Route number - (Terminus to Terminus, or placename loop, or shuttle, GCL etc) via (etc) (service type if applicable e.g. express, link, local, special BT ones)(operating days/times) (operator abbrevation)

E.g.

738 - Pacific Fair to Harbour Town via Bundall, Benowa TAFE and Griffith University (Weekdays and Saturdays) (SBL)

601 - Caloundra to Noosa Heads via Kawana Waters, Maroochydore and Coolum (Evening peak weekdays and Saturdays) (SUN)

111 - Eight Mile Plains Busway Station to Queen St Bus Station via South-East Busway (Busway Service) (Everyday) (BT)

550 - Springwood to Browns Plains via Woodridge, Kingston, Marsden and Crestmead (Everyday) (LCBS)

697 - Redcliffe Peninsula Anticlockwise Loop (Local) (Weekdays and Saturdays) (HBL)

BT = Brisbane Transport

SUN = Sunbus

BIC = Bribie Island Coaches

CBL = Caboolture Bus Lines

KBL = Kangaroo Bus Lines

TBS = Thompson's Bus Service

HBL = Hornbrook Bus Lines

BBL = Brisbane Bus Lines

CNX = Connex Brisbane

MGBS = Mt Gravatt Bus Service

LCBS = Logan City Bus Service

WBC = Westside Bus Co.

PRT = Park Ridge Transit

SBL = Surfside Buslines

Just a suggestion - actual formatting of each line to be determined by you, but should have that info at least. You don't need as much detail as the guy who posted all the BT routes - just the basics really. Maybe a series of tables would be appropriate?

Brisbane Airport
The reason why I did things the way that I did them was because when I tried to move "Brisbane International Airport" to "Brisbane Airport", I was told that it was impossible since a page for "Brisbane Airport" already existed, so I was forced to undertake the action that I subsequently had to, to make the name of the airport correct. Figaro 22:54, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:MtBeerwah Cliff.jpg
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If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the image qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stan 16:38, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:MtBeerwah NE Face.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:MtBeerwah NE Face.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the image qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Stan 16:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks! (Great pictures, BTW, glad we can keep them.) Stan 13:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

TransLink
TransLink (Brisbane) was a misnomer. It is the regional transport system for all of South-East Queensland. The content remains the same and the new name is more accurate. If there is a more appropriate means for doing what I have done, feel free. SM247 05:09, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia: Articles for Deletion
I thought it may interest you that the TransLink (South East Queensland) services article has been put up for deletion at Articles_for_deletion/TransLink_%28South_East_Queensland%29_services --Arnzy (Talk) 12:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Bcc.gif)
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 * Please I have no clue why the image is orphaned or where it was ever used I cannot find out now and its impossible for a bot to find out. Im just providing you notice that the image is up for deletion. Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 03:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Image plz?
Hi, I noticed your picture at the top of the Sydney Airport article, and was wondering if I could upload it onto and use on Lostpedia, the wiki I mainly reside at. Just asking your permission for copyright and such. --Nitchell 05:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Translink (Northern Ireland) logo.png
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Non-free use disputed for Image:TransLink (Brisbane) Logo.png
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Orphaned non-free image (Image:Qld-Gov Logo.gif)
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Image source problem with Image:AO Logo.jpg
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Virgin Blue Logo.gif)
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Brisbane meetup invitation
Hi there! You are cordially invited to a barbeque and meetup at Southbank this Sunday (26 June). Details and an attendee list are at Meetup/Brisbane. Hope to see you there! Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:57, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

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Brisbane workshop and meetup invitation
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Brisbane meetup invitation
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Brisbane meetup with Sue Gardner invitation
Hi there! You are cordially invited to a meetup on 11 Febrary 2013 with Sue Gardner.

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Brisbane Meetup
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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Brisbane Meetup in January 2016
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Brisbane meetup - Sunday 10 December 2017 at The Edge, State Library of Queensland
If you are in or near Brisbane, please join us on Sunday 10 December 2017 any time from noon to 4pm at The Edge at the State Library of Queensland. For more details and to sign up, please go to the meetup page. See you there! Kerry (talk) 22:37, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Brisbane meetup: Saturday 13 January 2018 at The Edge, State Library of Queensland
If you are in or near Brisbane, please join us on Saturday 13 January 2018 any time from noon to 4pm at The Edge at the State Library of Queensland. For more details and to sign up, please go to the meetup page. See you there!

title: User talk:Mathieumcguire


text: Category:Lakes of Alabama

title: Category:Lakes of Alabama