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User:Shanes/monobook.js

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User:Amirhk~enwiki

what is this for? im not so sure!

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Amirhk~enwiki


text: User talk:71.8.198.142

title: User talk:71.8.198.142


text:
User talk:Bryan Derksen/Archive 1

Just added a new graphic to the Clan McDuck. Also, I have the following tree for the Duck clan:

duck family tree

Looks like user:Trelvis answered your half-life question that you posted on talk:Beryllium. --maveric149

 * I noticed. I think I'm going to take his advice of not adding those highly unstable elements to the main element table; that equation looks scary and I'm out of my depth in that field. :) Bryan Derksen

I also agree; the properties table in the main elements articles needs to only have the most stable and useful isotopes (as Trelvis said). Of course, the Isotopes articles will have more complete info on those plus info on the the real unstable ones (at least in table form). But making 109+ "Isotopes of [insert element name here]" will take some time. One step at a time though.... --maveric149

Thanks for working on flagellum. I started it by coping an flagellum feature list from an Intelligent Design website -- Ed Poor

 * No problem. I'm going from memory on stuff I took in a course several years back, though, so I'm going to need to doublecheck some of it later. If nobody beats me to it I'll probably eventually "finish" the article myself. Bryan Derksen

Thanks muchly for having decoupled the transvestite article - do you think you could get your friends to cover transsexual and similar topics as well? I put a few words under transgender but I really don't feel qualified to comment beyond basic definitions. -- April

 * No problem. I passed along a whole bundle of links to transgender-related articles to them (it's a transgender fiction writers' mailing list - yes, I have some odd literary interests :), so hopefully there will be a bunch of new stuff showing up shortly. I know for a fact that some of the list's subscribers are highly qualified. :) Bryan Derksen

The weirdness on the Mars probe program was already there--I did all the changes by hand. I don't know what caused it, but thamks for fixing it. --LDC

Ah, I see. It was probably my fault, then, since I'm the one who created that article. Sorry, I just assumed I was perfect and therefore it must have happened when you edited it. :) Bryan Derksen

Way to go Bryan! Thanks for fixing the table -- I already know it looks fine in Konqueror, I will test several other browsers to make sure. maveric149

Cool, I've got a User talk: subspace now! :)

On Mozilla with an 800X600 resolution monitor, the table got slightly wider due to the inflexibility introduced by those extra columns. Ideally, the wiki software people will be able to fix the nested table bug; that way the two-column section and the six-column sections could resize their columns independantly and make things a little more efficient.

I would ordinarily consider this to be "good enough," but considering that this table design will be laboriously replicated over 106 or so articles I want to make absolutely sure I haven't done anything that will be hard to fix later on. Bryan Derksen
 * Alas, I will hold off on making the template until the wiki software stabilizes. -- I agree that it would be a terrible waste of time to populate 109 tables with info, just to find out that the new software renders the tables incorectly. BTW, what do you think of my deletion of the non-SI units? Was this a wise thing to do in order to save space and de-clutter the table? Could we just as easily add another column for the cgs units now? (dare I say) maveric149
 * The removal of the non-SI units works very well, I think the table is physically thinner now than it was before I pulled that 6-column trick. I could add another column for other units easily enough, but then the table starts getting fat again and I'm not sure if that's a good idea. It already occupies about half the width of my browser already, and with conversion formulas easily available there doesn't seem to be a pressing need.
 * The 6-column table will, I suspect, render much the same way as it does now under different software; it doesn't use any fancy HTML features that aren't already used by dozens of other tables on Wikipedia. I guess my opinion depends on the response to the nested-table bug report; if nobody seems to be put out by it, it might not get fixed any time soon and it might be simplest just to go ahead with what works now.
 * Maybe I should finally bite the bullet and join the wikipedia mailing list. :) Bryan Derksen
 * I wish you would. I don't have time to fix the "user interface capital letters added everywhere" bug, or the option to colorize different users and their contributions in the diff, both of which I think would help very much. - 24

- Your contributions are radically appreciated - this thankless cleanup work is not too popular. Give yourself a break at some point and add in your two cents in the new files linked from meta that ask for your visions, threats, best cases, worst cases, and whatever else you are concerned about. Regards, 24

Hello, I just filed your bug report about the ampersand at Bug Reports. (Unfortunately I followed your footsteps in resolving the problem first). :-) Koyaanis Qatsi, Sunday, April 7, 2002

 * Thanks. Mozilla hates editing large pages, so it's a lot of work for me to add stuff to that page these days. :) Bryan Derksen

Hi Bryan. I see you're on a mission to remove the primary sources. In that case, you have my permission to remove Macbeth, which I entered quite a while ago. I'd do it myself, but it took me a couple weeks to format the whole thing, so I can't bring myself to do it. :) --Stephen Gilbert

 * Heh! I've actually been avoiding doing that one, since it's formatted so nicely! I can't bring myself to do it either. :) I've been saving it for last and kind of hoping that someone would stop my mad rampage before it got that far, or at least find a new home for Macbeth somewhere other than Wikipedia. Hm... Perhaps I should move it over to meta? Bryan Derksen

Hey Bryan -- I left a note for you on Talk:WikiBiblion. Laterz --maveric149, Sunday, April 14, 2002

Bryan--I understand the temptation to fill the most-wanted with out-of-copyright 1911 articles, but please be careful about the scans: at least in Netscape 6, the etymological bits are coming up with unrendered characters, or things that seem unlikely to be correct (strings of consonants in non-English combinations). This is specifically a note on goose and garlic. Vicki Rosenzweig

 * Yeah, I usually try to clean out all the corrupted stuff from those articles, but I tend to do it over the course of a couple of edit-save cycles. This time I got called away by RL before I went through those particular articles often enough. Bryan Derksen

RE: Your comment on my talk page about worthless stub deletion. Just try to be careful not to remove content from stub definitions that could become articles. Thinking of Hegemony here. Oftentimes the most difficult thing in creating an article is thinking of a definition that states what the topic is "in a nutshell". After that is done, then any passer-by that knows a random fact about the subject can just input that thought into the stub definiton and slowly, but surely the definition could become an article. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. Adios! It will soon be time to do battle with insomnia. -maveric149

 * Alright, I'll try to be a bit more forgiving of the dictionary entries in the future. I'll still be on the lookout for ones which I don't think will ever become an encyclopedia entry. I'm just about done for the night, however, so it's somewhat moot; I just hit stub article number 500, and it's time to quit :) Bryan Derksen
 * Also found Injunction -- Two booboos out of 500 ain't bad at all. --maveric149

Bryan, I don't understand why you are removing existing article titles from Complete list of encyclopedia topics. The description of those pages by Magnus Manske, who collected the titles, does not mention anywhere that only non-existant articles should be listed (he explicitly used Wikipedia to construct the list). The title "complete list" also suggests that everything should be included. I always saw these pages as a convenient alphabetical way to browse Wikipedia. At the very least, your changes should be discussed somewhere, preferably on the mailing list. This is a pretty important set of pages. AxelBoldt, Saturday, June 1, 2002

 * The matter was discussed a while back in Talk:Complete list of encyclopedia topics and also on the mailing list at about the same time. The basic summary is that the purpose of the "complete list" is to provide ideas for new articles, and that links to existing articles are hiding a lot of orphans in them that are linked there but nowhere else (when I started working on this yesterday, there were about 450 orphans. Now there are just over 700). Since the new wiki software has a "list all articles" feature, I don't see any use for keeping links to existing articles in the "complete list" (which was very far from "complete" anyway, since it doesn't get automatically updated as new articles are added). The reason I'm doing all this cleaning now, some time after all the discussion, is that I just came up with a way to easily automate the process so I don't have to spend hours and hours doing it by hand; the first three pages I did a while back were rather labor-intensive. Bryan Derksen, Saturday, June 1, 2002

 * Ok, I must have missed the discussion, sorry. It seems it would be good to rename the pages then, though. Also, the main page lists the "Complete list" as one way to access Wikipedia, which it is no longer. AxelBoldt

 * Heh, I never noticed that link; I don't visit the main page very often any more. Fortunately, I note that there's a link to special:AllPages from the main page that should fill the role of "browseable index." I guess the remaining issue is, what should the "Complete listing" be renamed to? I'll pose the question over in its talk: page. Bryan Derksen, Sunday, June 2, 2002

Hey Brian, instead of administratively deleting the Oregon constitution / pages it might be better to just redirect them to Constitution of Oregon (or whatever it is best known as), have a stub about the constitution there and a good, official external link to the whole text. Some idiot over time may have bookmarked one or another / page in the past. --maveric149

=
Sorry about the BDE vs EBD issue. I hadn't realized that a standard had been established so I just went ahead with what seemed sensible to me. I can live with either convention. In a related matter, when a page also includes other headings, I've been putting those headings in alpha order. Eclecticology, Saturday, June 15, 2002

- Important note for all sysops: There is a bug in the administrative move feature that truncates the moved history and changes the edit times. Please do not use this feature until this bug is fixed. More information can be found in the talk of Brion VIBBER and maveric149. Thank you. --maveric149

 * Yay! You remembered me! Thanks. :) Bryan Derksen
 * And how could I forget you -- You trouble maker! :) --maveric149

Hey Bryan, could you take a look at Calcium/Temp for me? I think I somehow messed up the nested table because it isn't displaying as nicely as it does in Magnesium. Thanx for any help you can render. --maveric149

Taking a look... Bryan Derksen
 * Oops! Looks like this is an idiosyncrasy of Konqueror and not a true HTML bug... --
 * There was at least one bug, though; there wasn an extra "tr" tag down a the bottom of the isotope table. I'll poke around a bit more and see if there's anything else lurking. Bryan Derksen :)
 * Thanks! I will apply any changes you make to the template. --maveric149

 * There's still something different between this Calcium table and th Beryllium one; the isotope subtable has a thin blank space along the left hand side that shouldn't be there (in Mozilla 1.1). I'm going to keep hunting for whatever's causing that. Bryan Derksen

 * Got it! There was an extra "td" tag at the end of 42Ca's row, causing an extra blank cell to appear and force the table to have an extra column it shouldn't have had. Fixed now. No need to change the template, I think that was probably due to a typo of some kind. Bryan Derksen
 * Cool! Thanks for going on the Easter egg hunt. :) --maveric149

 * No problem. I like tables. :) Bryan Derksen

- Hey Bryan, could you take a look at the Strontium article for me? I just changed it over to the new format by adding the table and some adds/edits to the text. However, there are still two paragraphs that are almost exactly the same as the LANL text you copied over way back. Could you fiddle with the text so that it would pass the Goggle test? The two paragraphs are: Uses and second paragraph of Isotopes section. Thanks! --maveric149

 * I'll take a crack at it. Were the copyright status of the LANL pages ever followed up on? I thought they were public domain, works-for-hire for the US government. Bryan Derksen
 * I never got a response from my two emails asking for permission. However, the last time those pages were updated was in 1997 -- seems like whoever was responsible for those pages isn't there anymore and everyone still there doesn't seem to care. But all that is just assumptions on my part -- and we shouldn't subject Jimbo to copyright limbo (the UC system has a gang of lawyers that focus on protecting the "intellectual property" the university system -- which pisses me off because much of that IP was paid for by tax dollars!). There still is that copyright notice I showed you a while back -- although it isn't linked directly from any of the elements articles it is linked in one of the "about" pages linked from the main periodic table page).
 * So what I have been doing is just rearranging phrases and rewording the LANL text so that it at least passes the Google test for each entire sentence. The copyright notice combined with the fact that US federal tax dollars paid for it makes the material quasi-public domain in my mind so I plan on quasi-using it that way by doing slight rewrites of it. Besides, much of the text was written rather poorly and needs some copyeditting anyway. We should also strive to make something unique to wikipedia -- so a little rewriting of some text with uncertain public domain status is way to ensure that. --maveric149

Hey Bryan, there is a newbie alert on right now with user:1 Lucky Texan who hasn't seemed to have found recent changes yet. Could you help me with the clean up? This person is making question-type stubs faster than I can wikify them and add some useful content. Thanks! --maveric149

 * I'll see what I can do. I'm headed off to bed within an hour, though, so hopefully he'll discover recent changes soon... :) Bryan Derksen
 * He seems to have slowed down enough for KQ, Danny and I to turn his comment pages into stubs. So if you could just keep your eyes peeled, that would be great. Thanx! --maveric149
 * Heh. Didn't get to do much to help, I'm afraid. Got any more tables for me to work on instead? :) Bryan Derksen
 * As a matter of fact... The main perio table and its brothers have looked kinda ugly since a long ago software upgrade changed the rendering. Could you make it so that those tables have a size=1 white border, instead of the current black (like the Series key)? --maveric149
 * Just gave it a shot. The series key doesn't actually have a white border; rather, it has no border, with a 1-pixel gap between cells. I seem to recall that there's a way to color the border of an HTML table, but it's simpler just to go without one in this case. Bryan Derksen
 * It looks great! Thanks. --maveric149

Hey Bryan -- could take a look at a table I created over at Hominid? Specifically, I wondering about the possibility of having a nested table with no border in the classification section so that blasted verticle line would disappear. My goal with that table is to have it as simple as possible given the numbers of articles similar tables will be in -- so if you can see anything that could be further simplified so that it is easy to make lists within the table, then I would be most grateful (I'm concerned about the complexity of the genera list in particular). Cheers! --maveric149
 * I think we have the table under control now - but please do take a look anyway. Thanx! --maveric149, Sunday, July 14, 2002

 * Whups! Sorry about not getting to this right away, I've been off of my main computer for a week now due to some hardware problems (which should be fixed by the end of this week :) and so haven't been wikipediaing much. I'll take a look now. Bryan Derksen, Tuesday, July 16, 2002

I seem to have uncovered a bug. :) I've uploaded a new version of the image without the black line around three sides, taken from image:cysteine.png (it's the 900 byte version). However, whenever I try to link the image or view the 900-byte versions from this page, I get the original 1.5 kb version instead. Since I haven't had much time for wikipedia in the past little while, I don't know if this bug has been spotted yet. Bryan Derksen 22:28 Jul 22, 2002 (PDT)

Unlike articles, images are served with the default expiry settings of the server, which I believe is three hours. So if you upload a new version of an image and then follow a link to it, you'll probably get the old one for a while; refreshing your browser may clear it. Maybe a note to that effect might be a good idea. LDC

 * Ah, excellent. thanks. :)

Ah, I see you couldn't stay away from the taxonomy tables. However, several of us decided to keep the scientific classification section as simple as possible by only noting non-super/sub taxons and only using those taxons to organize children lists (see: Dicotyledon for an example). No biggie either way. --mav

 * Heh. Alrighty, I'll search out the taxonomy table discussion and read it before I do any more of those. Besides, there are plenty of other tables in need of my tender ministrations throughout the pedia. :)
 * I'm still not entirely back in operation here on Wikipedia, but my computer troubles are just about finished clearing up now so I'm getting back in gear. Glad to be back! Bryan Derksen 20:38 Aug 3, 2002 (PDT)

Bryan, see Talk:Main Page -- Zoe

 * Yup, read about it on the mailing list a little while ago. It still puzzled me, though, because I'd already re-logged-in with the new .org address when that happened. It doesn't seem to be repeating so I guess it was just some little bit of cookie magic, after all. Oh well. :) Bryan Derksen

title: User talk:Bryan Derksen/Archive 1


text:
Vaho

Vaho or baho (both ) is a mix of meat, green plantains and yuca cooked in banana leaves. It is a traditional Nicaraguan dish originated from the mix of cultures between the indigenous, mestizos and Afro-Nicaraguans of the country.

In Nicaraguan Spanish and some other dialects, the name is pronounced with between vowels as. There is some controversy as to whether the correct spelling is vaho, baho, vajo or bajo.

Vaho is served with ensalada de repollo, a cabbage and tomato salad made with vinegar and lemon/lime juice. The salad tops the meat, yuca and plantains. The meat used to make this dish is typically beef brisket. For some families, it is a traditional Sunday dish. It is also served in many restaurants.

title: Vaho


text:
User:Nidonocu

Nidonocu is a furry living currently in Sheffield, Yorkshire in the United Kingdom. He is quite a new Wikipedia user but loves the idea of being able to change anything which he knows to be wrong to right. And reading through the articles to find out things he sometimes might of never even heard of before.

Background and Education
Born on 5 June,1985. He grew up in Broadstairs before moving to Worcester after the split of his parents. He finally moved to Sheffield to begin attending university at Sheffield Hallam. As of 2006, he finished studying for a Foundation Degree in Information Technology Networks (FdSc ITN), including the study of the Cisco Systems CCNA. He has previously studied an AVCE in Computing and passed High School with 11 GCSE's.

His general interests include PC customisation, role-playing, Halo 3, Nintendo, colouring and artwork and talking with friends online.

Furry
Nidonocu has been a furry since around 2002 after meeting other furs online and learning about the fandom. Though he has suspicions that for some time that he was a fur, and this could explain at least half of his childhood behaviour.

He started off taking on the form of a Nidoking - Morph, an anthropomorphic Nidoking. This is also where his name comes from; nido as in what was his species. Nocu short for nocuous, meaning noxious. So his actual full name is Nidonocuous. He is often referred to though as either just the first four, or last four letters of his name for short.

His form however, was taken from what was in actually fact a character created for a MUSH and he felt it didn't quite suite him, so went ahead and created himself a more accurate creature and fursona that fitted his personality.

Thusly, his species is Poison Bunny (Animalia Chordata Mammalia Lagomorpha Leporidae Contraho Noxialis-Lagus). This is a self created species that is elemental in nature and takes elements from both real rabbits and the Pokémon species, Nidoking(#34).

The overall look is an anthropomorphic rabbit like creature with purple fur and pale purple underbelly. He retains also the green and teal colouring of his ears, though they are more rabbit shaped than those on any member of the nido-family of pokémon. He also has a small forehead horn, back-spikes, shoulder pads, and tail like that of a nidoking, but lacks the thicker body plating and flesh. He has bright gold-brown coloured eyes and dark brown, normally messy styled, hair.

Several pictures have been drawn to date of Nidonocu, but not all match his current description, since he underwent a recent re-colouration of his fur. These can be found here:
 * Old Colour Scheme by Bakabaka
 * Pencil Sketch by Nidonocu
 * Work in Progress picture of most current description by Nidonocu
 * Full Version of Icon above by Ayame

Internet Activites
As well as WikiFur, he also regularly contributes to and reads the following wikis:

 * Wikipedia
 * WikiNews
 * The Homestar Runner Wiki

He is currently creating a C# based MU* Client for Windows which he hopes to release soon.

He also regularly role-plays at The Pokémorph MUSH and takes place in technical discussions on the forums of Neowin.net.

He also plays alot on XBox Live with his XBox 360 and on his various Nintendo consoles.

title: User:Nidonocu


text:
Anthony Gale

Anthony Gale was the fourth Commandant of the United States Marine Corps and the only one ever fired. Fewer records survive concerning him than any other commandant. He is the only commandant for whom the Marines neither know his burial location nor have a portrait or likeness.

Early life
His date of birth is in dispute. It is variously reported to be in 1761 or on September 17, 1782, in Dublin, Ireland. He was commissioned as a second lieutenant on July 26, 1798. According to a transcript of a October 23, 1838 letter to President Martin Van Buren, Anthony Gale writes (in part): "as a military man that I embraced in my nineteenth year", which would place his birth in 1779–1780.

Born in Ireland to Anthony Gale and Ann Delany, Gale declared his intent to become a United States citizen on June 15, 1798, and completed the naturalization process on November 27, 1801. Ireland land records  involving his mother Ann Delany suggest Gale was born in Queen's County, Ireland, subsequently renamed County Laois.

Gale married Catherine Swope on January 4, 1800, in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. The couple settled in Philadelphia and had three children – Amelia, who died after four weeks; a son, Washington Anthony; and another daughter, Emily, both of whom survived into adulthood.

Early career
Early in his Marine career, he fought, in fairly quick succession, the French, the Barbary pirates, the British, and a U.S. naval officer. Angered by the mistreatment of a Marine sentry, Gale killed Navy Lieutenant Allen MacKenzie in a duel. This incident, perceived to be an affront to the Corps, subsequently brought Commandant William W. Burrows' approval for Gale's defense of his Corps' honor. Later in his military career, Gale took "an active and gallant part" during the siege of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812.

Increasing rank brought other difficulties. In 1815, while commanding at Philadelphia, he fell out with Commandant Franklin Wharton over construction of barracks. Wharton had been accused of overspending on the project, and he in turn charged Gale with building extravagant officers' quarters. Gale asserted that he had been given no specific plans and that Wharton had known what was being done. A court of inquiry cleared Gale, but he was banished to a less desirable post in New Orleans, where he allegedly nursed a feeling of persecution and began to drink heavily.

Rise to Commandant
Brevet Major Gale, although next senior at the time of Wharton's death on September 1, 1818, had to battle for the job. At the time, the Corps was authorized only one lieutenant colonel and two majors. One could only rise in rank by virtue of the death or removal of a superior officer. When Wharton died, a scramble for the Commandant's job ensued.

Major Samuel Miller, the adjutant and inspector at the Marine Corps Headquarters, two days after notifying Navy Secretary Benjamin Williams Crowninshield of Wharton's death, considering himself well suited for the job, suggested that he conduct the affairs of the commandancy until a successor was appointed. Brevet Major Archibald Henderson asserted that as the senior line officer present, he should be Acting Commandant. Henderson was also characteristically blunt in giving his assessment of Gale's qualifications to the new Secretary of the Navy, Smith Thompson. In an attempt to discredit Gale, in February 1819, Henderson and Miller participated in a court of inquiry resurrecting the old charges concerning Gale's tenure in Philadelphia. However, during his testimony, Henderson was forced to admit that his knowledge of Gale's misconduct was based on hearsay. Miller could similarly not provide firsthand evidence of wrongdoing by Gale. After the court of inquiry exonerated him of these charges for the second time, Gale, with 21 years of service and therefore senior, became Lieutenant Colonel Commandant on March 3, 1819, ending a six-month period during which the Corps had been leaderless.

Trouble as Commandant
Shortly after Gale assumed his post, Archibald Henderson circumvented Gale and wrote directly to Navy Secretary Smith Thompson requesting to join General Andrew Jackson who was serving as military governor in Florida. Soon came more direct troubles with Smith Thompson, who frequently countermanded Gale's orders. Finally, on August 8, 1820, Gale submitted a letter analyzing the proper division of function between himself and the Secretary, pointing out the impossibility of his position. It was also alleged that he began to drink heavily at this time. Eight days after his letter, Gale was notified that the Secretary had unilaterally granted a four-week leave to one Marine captain and had suspended Gale's order sending another captain to the Mediterranean. Two weeks after that, on August 29, Gale was arrested and ordered to face court-martial.

Court-martial
The charges against Gale were dated September 11, 1820. The first was that Gale was publicly intoxicated in the city of Washington on six specified dates during August, including August 31, two days after his arrest. The second charge was of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. There were three specifications: first, that Gale had visited a house of prostitution near the Marine Barracks "in open and disgraceful manner" on that same August 31; second, that he had on September 1 - a date on which he was in custody - called Lieutenant Richard M. Desha, the Corps' Paymaster and son of Congressman Joseph Desha of Kentucky - who had earlier charged Gale with misappropriation - "a damned rascal, liar and coward" and threatening him with personal chastisement unless he would immediately challenge and fight him; and, finally, that he had declared in front of the Marine Barracks "that he did not care a damn for the President, Jesus Christ or God Almighty!" The third charge was that Gale had signed a false certificate that said he had not used a Marine for personal services when in fact he had had a man assigned as waiter and coachman from October 17, 1819, until June 3, 1820. The fourth and final charge was that Gale had broken arrest "at sundry times" between September 1 and 8 while he was confined to quarters.

Gale's court-martial was marked by further irregularities. Major Miller, one of Gale's rivals for the post of Commandant, despite having written the charges against Gale, was nonetheless appointed the prosecutor. Furthermore, Lieutenant Desha, a witness against Gale on the second charge, was appointed a supernumerary (or extra member) of the court, and was called to sit on the court in judgment of Gale when regular court members failed to appear. Desha objected to serving on the court under the circumstances, but the court overruled his objection on the grounds that Desha, not Gale, had objected. The court found Gale guilty, President James Monroe approved the verdict, and Gale was removed from office and dismissed from the Marine Corps on October 18, 1820.

Later life
From Washington, Gale went first to Philadelphia where he spent several months in a hospital, then took up residence in Stanford, Kentucky. Armed with proof that he had been under the strain of temporary mental derangement while Commandant, he spent fifteen years attempting to have his court-martial decision reversed. Eventually, in 1835, the government partially cleared him and awarded him a stipend of $15 a month, which was later increased to $25 and continued until his death.

Although some sources identify he died on December 12, 1842, most sources, including the April 1844 pension petition filed by his widow, report his death to be on December 12, 1843. Over the years, several efforts have been undertaken by the Marines in an attempt to locate Commandant Gale's final resting place. All have proven unsuccessful. In lieu of a monument at his gravesite, on March 6, 2010, various detachments of the Marine Corps League of Kentucky dedicated a monument to Commandant Anthony Gale at the Lincoln County Courthouse in Stanford, Kentucky, near where he died and is likely buried. The Marine Corps League, Department of Kentucky, has taken, as an annual project, the traditional laying of the Commandant's wreath at this memorial on each November 10, the birthday of the Marines, in accordance with Chapter 6 of Marine Corps Order 3040.4.

title: Anthony Gale


text:
Yō Inoue

Yumi Shitsukawa (漆川 由美), also known by her stage name Yō Inoue (井上 瑤), was a Japanese voice actress. Inoue was diagnosed with lung cancer in late 2001, underwent treatments during 2002, and her condition deteriorated rapidly in the last month of her life.

At the time of her death she was represented by the Tokyo Actor's Consumer's Cooperative Society. She had previously been represented by Production Baobab, Office Osawa, and others. Her role as Bakura in Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters was replaced by Rika Matsumoto.

Selected filmography

 * Urusei Yatsura (Ran (First Voice))
 * Osomatsu-kun 1988 (Osomatsu)
 * Mobile Suit Gundam (Sayla Mass, Kikka Kitamoto, Haro, Pero)
 * Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ (Sayla Mass)
 * Mobile Police Patlabor (Kanuka Clancy)
 * Baoh (Sophine)
 * Soreike! Anpanman (Tendon Ka-san, Kurobe)
 * Time Bokan series
 * Yatterman (Chiro, Himeko, Keroppa)
 * Yattodetaman (Aladdin, Jack)
 * Itadakiman (Oscar, Sam)
 * Space Runaway Ideon (Sheryl Formosa, Lou Piper)
 * Tōshō Daimos (Kairo)
 * High School! Kimengumi (Jako Amano)
 * Macross 7 (Gepelnich)
 * Invincible Steel Man Daitarn 3 (Reika Sanjou)
 * Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters (Ryo Bakura (Episodes 12–41))
 * YuYu Hakusho (Shorin, Rando)
 * Ranma ½ (Rinko)
 * Magic User's Club (Akiko Aburatsubo)
 * Gatchaman II (Paimer)
 * Tenchi Muyo! Manatsu no Eve (Yuzuha)
 * Fatal Fury: The Motion Picture (Panni Shona)
 * Domain of Murder (Mama)

Dubbing

 * My Lucky Stars, Barbara Woo / Swordflower / Lo Hon Gwo (Sibelle Hu)
 * Top Gun (1989 Fuji TV edition), Carole Bradshaw (Meg Ryan)
 * Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey, Sassy (Sally Field)
 * Homeward Bound II: Lost in San Francisco, Sassy (Sally Field)
 * The Swan Princess: Escape from Castle Mountain, Queen Uberta (Christy Landers)
 * The Swan Princess III: The Mystery of the Enchanted Treasure, Queen Uberta (Christy Landers)

title: Yō Inoue


text:
Nacatamal

A nacatamal (Nahuat: Nakatamal, Nakat "meat", tamal "tamale") (Nahuatl: Nacatamal, Nacatl "meat", tamalli "tamale") is a traditional Nicaraguan dish similar to the tamal and to the hallaca. Nacatamales originated from the Nicarao tribes who inhabited western Nicaragua, its name originates from the Nawat language and translates to 'meat tamale'. During pre-columbian times, the Nicarao were using hunted meats like deer and turkey with ingredients such as tomatoes, achiote and herbs to season and increase the nacatamal's flavor before being wrapped in corn husks and steamed. After Spanish conquest, nacatamales were made with introduced meats like pork. They also evolved to include flavorful ingredients like onions and banana leaves replaced corn husks. The nacatamal is perhaps the most produced within traditional Nicaraguan cuisine and is typically eaten on the weekend, for dinner, or for breakfast; it is usually eaten together with white bread and a caffeinated drink like black coffee, Coca-Cola or Pepsi. It is common to enjoy nacatamales (plural) during special occasions and to invite extended family and neighbors to partake.

Ingredients
A nacatamal is made up of mostly nixtamalized corn masa (a kind of dough traditionally made from a process called nizquezar) and lard, but includes seasonings such as salt and achiote (annatto). This combination is traditionally cooked in a large batch over a wood fire. The result becomes the base for the nacatamal and it is also referred to as masa. This base is ladled onto plantain leaves used for wrapping into large individual portions. The leaves undergo their own preparation separately. Before a nacatamal can be wrapped and brought to the last stage of the cooking process, it must be filled. The filling usually consists of annatto-seasoned pork meat; rice; slices of potatoes, bell peppers, tomatoes, and onions; olives; spearmint sprigs; and chile congo, a very small, egg-shaped chile found in Nicaragua. On occasion, prunes, raisins or capers can be added. The masa and filling are then wrapped in the plantain leaves, tied with a string, and made into pillow-shaped bundles. These nacatamales are then steamed or pressure-cooked for several hours. The entire process is very labor-intensive and it often requires preparation over the course of two days; it may be necessary to involve the whole family to complete it.

Today it is common to wrap nacatamales in both banana leaf and aluminum foil before cooking. Cooking takes up to five hours and at the midway point the nacatamales are turned over to facilitate even cooking.

title: Nacatamal


text:
Abdullah Mirza

‘Abdullah Mirza (after 1410 – June 1451) was a short-lived ruler of the Timurid Empire, which encompassed the territory shared by present-day Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, along with substantial areas of India, Mesopotamia and Caucasus.

As a member of the Timurid dynasty, Abdullah Mirza was a great-grandson of Timur, a grandson of Shah Rukh and a son of Ibrahim Sultan. Granted the governorship of Fars by his grandfather, Abdullah Mirza found his position threatened by his cousin Sultan Muhammad during the 1447 succession crisis which followed Shah Rukh's death, and was forced to abandon the province. As a supporter of Ulugh Beg, he was imprisoned by 'Abd al-Latif following the latter's rise to power. When 'Abd al-Latif was murdered, he was released and made ruler of Samarkand, for which he was forced to lavish money upon the troops that supported him. Despite this, he did not enjoy widespread popularity.

During his relatively brief reign, a revolt created by Sultan Muhammad's brother Ala al-Dawla Mirza did not seriously threaten him, but a rising initiated by Abu Sa'id Mirza, whose home base, at the time, was in Bukhara, proved to be fatal. Marching from Tashkent to Samarkand with the support of Abu'l-Khayr Khan, Abu Sa'id Mirza defeated Abdullah Mirza and executed him in 1451, taking his place on the throne.

title: Abdullah Mirza


text:
File:Composite monitor.JPG

This is a photo of an old GoldStar composite monitor. It was taken at approx. 12:08 AM on April 24th 2005. This monitor is more than 20 years old.

I used to play video games on this monitor. I bought it at a garage sale down the street back in 2001. It has been sitting in my closet for several years and I haven't used it for quite a long time. Yup! this monitor is an early example of a composite monitor with color graphics marketed for home use. --SuperDude 04:18, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: File:Composite monitor.JPG


text:
Talk:Giant Steps (composition)

Talk moved from Giant Steps (song)
The article is currently entitled "Giant Steps (song)". Why "song"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it much better known as an instrumental number than sung? How about we move it to something like "Giant Steps (tune)"? Wondering simply, -- Infrogmation 04:14, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Are there other pages that have "(tune)" in the title? The word is rather non-encyclopedic in feel. Perhaps something like "(melody)" would be better? But then it isn't strictly the melody--the associated chords are very important. "Head"? "Leadline"? I think it's okay to leave it as "song", even if it's not sung (at least not originally), just to keep things simple. - mako 22:01, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I object to having the article at an inaccurate and misleading title, and think that has a more pronounced "non-encyclopedic" feel. I fail to see any way that calling something that isn't a song a "song" in any way promotes simplicity. I am certainly open to other options than replacing the description "song" with "tune". Possible options that come to mind include having the tune at "Giant Steps" and the album at "Giant Steps (album)". Other thoughts? I'm sure we can do much better than the current dubious title. -- Infrogmation 06:27, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Calling this article "Giant Steps" is a good solution. - mako 03:20, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Done. - mako 04:04, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I disagree. The dab pages are setup to help people find what they are looking for the first time around.  Due to this change, a user searching for Giant Steps will be brought to an article about the composition, not the album.  The correct dab would to leave Giant Steps as the album with the term pointing to that album, and dab the song as Giant Steps (composition).  Currently there is no need for a separate article on the tune, so there should only be one link to the album. --Viriditas  | Talk 04:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think this article should go back to Giant Steps (song). The fallacy in the original reason for moving the page, is that "songs" refer to music that is sung. I can come up with a myriad of 'songs', that are refered to as such, that have no lyrics. Even in the opening line of this article, Giant Steps is refered to as a 'song'. Lachatdelarue (talk) 15:09, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with Infrogmation's arguments that "song" is a misleading label. "Composition" is a much more accurate characterization of the nature of the work, as "Giant Steps" was indeed composed with certain aspects of theory in mind. The opening line of this article should be amended to "track", probably. - mako 22:38, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, I have heard some people sometimes casually say "song" when talking about instrumentals. This is not something a musician or someone with music education would be likely to say. For encyclopedia articles I think we should try to use precise and accurate language. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 18:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

If it's going to be Giant Steps (composition), then shouldn't the description in the first line match that, describing it as a piece of music composed by Trane, instead of simply as a recording that must be exactly so many minutes and seconds long? This isn't Ascension, you know.

Quality
The article shifts between past- and present-tense, and its wording is sometimes redundant. C1k3 18:36, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I cleaned it up a bit and removed the tag. -- Ci e lomobile minor7♭5 03:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

This page is full of inaccurate and irrelevant information. I'm tagging it for cleanup. Someone else can do it, cos I broke my hand. Dextrose 07:23, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Copyright?
There is a sample on the page... what is the copyright status?Dndn1011 08:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Clean-up
OK, I'm going to do my best here. I'll be happy to explain all the edits I'm about to make.Jazzzguy (talk) 06:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Giant Steps.ogg
The image Image:Giant Steps.ogg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --02:02, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Chord progression was definitely not improvised
I removed the word "improvised", which formerly was used to describe the chord progression, because the chord progression was NOT improvised, even though there was (like usual in jazz) improvisation in the recording. I doubt anyone will care to disagree. Jazzmusician94 (talk) 16:51, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Hard Bop or Bebop
why is this tune considered classified as hard bop and not bebop? It has fast chord changes and isn't at the slower tempo most hard bop tunes are associated with. Also, there isn't a significant blues/gospel influence either. Any insight as to why this qualifies as hard bop and not bebop? Even if this isn't bebop, I feel like hard bop is still not an accurate category for it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.53.59.231 (talk) 19:19, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Move and modification
The move from the dab of composition to jazz standard should have been discussed. That there is no type of "jazz standard" at template:Infobox song. Valid types are automatically linked. I'd like to know why it was moved and modified and why it shouldn't be returned. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:11, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The only source for it being a standard is not a reliable source. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:18, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Walter Görlitz, I see what you are getting at. Apologize for moving it without approval; mistake on my part. However, the past version was still mostly unreferenced. Let's move it back to (composition). –Adamilo (talk) 05:20, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I was looking for a discussion to create WP:CONSENSUS. That's not the same as approval. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:32, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree. Can a discussion to create WP:CONSENSUS still be made? –Adamilo (talk) 15:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I have opened a discussion at another location. Let's see if anyone from there comes over the next few days and then I'll add my opinion. If not, no one else cares and I will probably drop the matter of location as well. Although the infobox change and the claim it's a standard are going to take a lot more work. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:46, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Copied relevant discussion from WT:SONGS:

Giant Steps (composition) was just moved to Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:23, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * And now to Giant Steps (jazz composition). Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:32, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Unsure why this is here: it's clear that the new article titles don't follow existing policies (WP:ATDAB, WP:NCDAB) and the infobox doesn't follow Template:Infobox song. "Giant Steps" is included in the List of post-1950 jazz standards, with citations to fake books. Jazzstandards.com is used extensively as a source in the list and write-ups in its "About Personnel" section  make them appear to meet "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." (WP:SPS). —Ojorojo (talk) 15:36, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Because I didn't feel like being in a one-man discussion with a fairly new editor. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:37, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved (closed by non-admin page mover) Danski454 (talk) 18:20, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Giant Steps (jazz composition) → Giant Steps (composition) – The name should be reverted to the former name Giant Steps (composition), that followed WP:ATDAB and WP:NCDAB: Giant Steps is the primary and there are no other song, composition, etc., articles that would require further DAB (see above discussion). Propose to delete the existing redirect from Giant Steps (composition) and move Giant Steps (jazz composition) to Giant Steps (composition) with Giant Steps (jazz composition), Giant Steps (jazz standard), and Giant Steps (song) as redirects (also applies to talk pages). Thanks, Ojorojo (talk) 16:46, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. While the fact it's a jazz composition is very important, to be consistent with Lady Bird (composition) let's go with the shorter title. --Comment by  Selfie City  ( talk about my  contributions ) 22:57, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. It looks like someone just mistakenly moved it to "jazz standard" on 9 April and then had second thoughts but couldn't move it back. Seems uncontroversial. Station1 (talk) 00:39, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Support It was moved twice and the editor who made the initial moves recognized that it should not have been moved, but would not (or could not) move it back. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:11, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Importance to Coltrane's repertoire between 1960-1967? Impact on other jazz composers?
Most casual Coltrane fans know 'Giant Steps' represented the apex of a sort of 'middle period' in his recording career, when he was on Atlantic and exploring certain harmony concepts. Did he continue to play 'Giant Steps' into his more modal and free periods that are represented by his Impulse Records output? For example, did he ever play the tune live, and if so, what's the last know instance of him doing so? Any comments to interviewers about the tune? What are some early examples of his peers or followers using "Coltrane changes" in their own compositions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.23.15 (talk) 22:50, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Giant Steps (composition)


text:
Hydrophyllum

Hydrophyllum is a genus of herbaceous perennial plants in the waterleaf family. It consists of nine species, all of which are native to North America.

All Hydrophyllum are found in areas of mesic or moist soil.

Species

 * Hydrophyllum appendiculatum Michx. -- Great waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum brownei Kral & Bates -- Browne's waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum canadense L. -- Blunt-leaf waterleaf, bluntleaf waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum capitatum Dougl. ex Benth. -- Ballhead waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum fendleri (Gray) Heller -- Fendler's waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum macrophyllum Nutt. -- Largeleaf waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum occidentale (S. Wats.) Gray -- Western waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum tenuipes Heller -- Pacific waterleaf
 * Hydrophyllum virginianum L. -- Virginia waterleaf, Shawnee salad

title: Hydrophyllum


text:
User talk:Bryan Derksen/Archive 2

Hi, I have wanted to clarify something about Netscape for a long time. The Gecko-based product is no longer called Navigator, simply Netscape, so I'd rather not put the info about it under the title Netscape Navigator. What do you think? Do you want to keep the Netscape article as a disambiguation page? (After all, it seems they began to use 'Navigator' here and there again.) vaganyik

 * Personally, I'd put information about the browser at "Netscape Navigator" and information about the company at "Netscape." But haven't been paying attention to what Netscape has been doing, and don't really have much interest either; not really sure why you picked me to ask this question of. :) Bryan Derksen

--- Hey Bryan - Is it possible to place preformatted text in a table? The reason I ask is because a few years ago I created a step by step diagram of glycolysis on my Palm Pilot and several months ago I placed that diagram in talk:Glycolysis (after trying and failing to get it into a right aligned table). Any help or suggestions would be great. --mav

 * I just did the first diagram over on that talk page, and it seems to work on Mozilla 1.1. However, this ASCII art thing makes me twitch philosophically; wouldn't it be better to make some simple line drawings and upload them as images? I could probably whip something up, but not tonight (no time right now). Bryan Derksen

-- Please have a look atTalk:Lomography

 * Already have, an answer is over there. By the way, I think wikipedia custom is to add new entries to talk pages at the bottom of the page, so that reading downward puts everything in chronological order. I've noticed you're putting new comments at the top of pages like this instead, and thought you might be unaware. Also, you might want to sign your talk page contributions; just put three tildes " " to automatically add a link to your own user page, like is at the end of this paragraph. Bryan

Thanks I'm really new here. I find the project exciting. Ericd 18:20 Sep 5, 2002 (PDT)

Bryan, how do I timestamp my "Talk" page entries? Cointyrocointyro

 * Just use four tildes instead of three. Simple as that. :) eg: ~ as opposed to Bryan 17:06 Sep 21, 2002 (UTC)

--- Hey Bryan; I've started a new thread over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements about a concept for nav bars and locator maps. Your views, opinions and HTML skills are requested. :) --mav

Bryan, if you have some time, will you write something about horseshoe orbits? I don't quite understand how they work and I am curious. Thanks. PattonZarate

 * Sure, I'll take a crack at it. I'll have effectively zero time tomorrow, but the day after is good. But I barely understand them myself, so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help. :) Bryan

 * Thanks. I will also look somewhere to see if I can find some sort of graphical representation. PattonZarate

 * The site http://www.astro.queensu.ca/~wiegert/3753/3753.html has a great deal of good stuff about weird orbits like this, and not just 3753 Cruithne's. I once wrote the author for permission to use some of it on Wikipedia, but never got a response.

 * Also, go over to www.xoverboard.com and read the entry on September 25, 2002 regarding Scrooge McDuck and his purported wealth. I think you'll get a kick out of it. PattonZarate

 * Heh. I can sort of believe McDuck's relatively low ranking; I mean, his idea of investing his money is just throwing it all in a giant money pit. But what's with Lex Luthor only having a measily four billion dollars? This is the guy who single-handedly financed the rebuilding of Gotham City and Metropolis! And Thurston Howell III is listed as having twice as much! Can you imagine Lex Luthor being stuck on that island? Gilligan and the rest would be dead within a week, and the island itself converted into a secret LexCorp research facility of some kind.

 * I'm sorry, I seem to be digressing. :) Bryan 07:11 Sep 30, 2002 (UTC)

 * Funny! PattonZarate

Why did you remove the text centering from the table of line-ending characters in the ASCII entry, and replace it with cellpadding/cellspacing attributes? You should note that these table-level attributes have no effect if the user has chosen a skin/stylesheet like Cologne Blue, which specifies them via CSS properties at the td level. -- mjb

 * Just personal aesthetics, I guess; I find tables more readable in general when the text all starts at the same spot, whereas centered text makes my eyes go jagged when I scan down the column. The cellspacing/padding attributes are ones which I add to virtually all the tables I edit, also for aesthetic reasons (and if they're overridden, that's fine; that's what style sheets are for). Bryan

Bryan: I'm working on developing sep11.wikipedia.org. Until it's ready, I would appreciate it if you didn't delete the Memoriam page. Your help is welcome. --The Cunctator

 * It hasn't been deleted, copies of the page are stored in both the page's history and on the meta site. When sep11.wikipedia.org is ready, it will be trivial to retrieve this for it. Bryan

I believe you know what I'm talking about when I said "delete".

 * Yeah, but I was glad it was finally gone from Wikipedia and the fact that its contents were still accessible if and when someone wanted to make it available elsewhere was good enough IMO.

sep11: doesn't work fine. It has broken links. It's not fully set up. The blue background needs to be changed. Etc. It's still, as they say, in beta. But now that there are clean redirects the primary detriment to user experience has been removed. I'd appreciate your help in improving the site. --The Cunctator

 * No thanks, I barely have time for Wikipedia itself these days.

Hi Brian, Maverick149 thought you would like to knwo about this bug (I also filed a bug report)

See screendump ScrPrint.gif

Explorer renders somes pages in a weird way.

Mav says the Periodic Table should always fit on the screen (Table width = 100%)

It does not in Explorer 5.5. and 6.

What is even more horrid: when I scroll to the right the tabIe moves underneath the menu, showing both intermingled (see screen dump)

I've seen this now on three PC's: Win2000 MSIE 5.5 Win98 MSIE 5.5 (screen dump) lowres screen Win XP MSIE 6 hires screen

The effect occurred on other pages too. Even if it is an Explorer issue only, some 90% or more of the Wikipedians probably use Explorer, at least half of them 5.5 or higher.

Erik Zachte

the text doesnt shrink for me Lir 06:45 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * When you make the table wider and the total width of the screen stays the same, the space available beside it gets narrower. That's only part of the problem, though. If the factsheet template changes, then I've got to go around and update all of the other planets and moons that have them as well; before I go to all that trouble, I insist on being convinced that it's a good idea. Please take this up over on Talk:Solar system/Factsheet template.

well id love to take it up on that talk page but as far as i can tell you and I are the one ones reading it. now if you want, you could have the table be above the text instead of beside it. Frankly, I never liked having the damn boxes besides the text to begin with. I think having to update the other stuff is a pretty lame excuse since thats what im trying to do...Lir 06:53 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * Jeronimo, Maveric, and Fonzy have all contributed significantly to the talk page and to the template, and Maveric has been active there during the past hour or so while this kerfuffle has blown up. As for what you think about the table design, why should I care if you're not willing to work to convice me in a reasonable manner? I can revert stuff just as easily as you can, regardless of whether you think my excuse is "lame", and will continue to do so until you show me why I shouldn't. Bryan

Your excuse is lame! You don't want me to update the Earth page because then Id have to update all the pages? What the hell concern is it of yours if I go through and update all the pages?

 * what concern is it of yours if I go through and revert all of them?

You still haven't explained what your problem is with the damn table except that you didn't make it. Lir 07:04 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * I have explained what my problem is, and none of the reasons I gave were "I didn't make it" (in fact, the current template has a number of sections and details which other folks added to it, so I didn't make all of the current one either). If you are interested in a more detailed discussion, there's a certain talk: page I've been suggesting where we could do that.

 * BTW, saying that my excuses are lame is a lame way to have a debate.

Hey Bryan. I am discussing on the talk page. But where are you? You haven't given any reason whats wrong with my table except you are using a substandard and atypical resolution. Lir 07:18 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * I've been trying, but I've been getting edit conflicts every time I try to save for the past five minutes or so. Slow down a bit. :) Bryan

So why doesn't anybody add some chatrooms? That would save a lot of trouble and time. Lir 07:28 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

And I'd just like to point out that basically, I've never, had an issue with someone modifying or adapting my text. It's only when I add new info that nobody disputes BUT GODDAMN FUCKING EVERYTHING GETS REVERTED because somebody doesn't like one minor point. Lir 07:29 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

What was with the changes to Earth? I notice Lir changed Cm to M in one place, and removed <sup> tags within a link, changing the link. I was about to check the additions when you reverted it. --KQ

 * Sorry, that last one was just a straight reversion-to-previous-version, assuming that Lir had only gone and replaced the table again. I'll check the diff for anything that should have been merged instead. Bryan

 * Just double-checked, and as I'd surmised Lir's most recent change was just a replacement of the table again. No other changes were undone in the reversion. Bryan

Well wahts the problem with it now? I can't fix something if I don't know what you think is wrong with it Lir 07:47 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * I've been telling you what I think over on the template talk page. You've been ignoring it completely, as far as I can tell. Why shouldn't I ignore you right back? This is getting boring. Bryan

 * And ive been fixing every complaint you have, so clearly Im not ignoring you.

ring current needs its own page. Whether to describe Earth's ring current on the van allen page or ring current is another question_I tend to see the ring current as NOT being part of the van allen belts as they are two van allen belts, inner and outer, and the outer belt is surrounded by the ring current. Lir 00:48 Nov 13, 2002 (UTC) - Hey Bryan,

The Factsheet is really a WikiProject, no? It would be great to move the Factsheet and its talk page to a WikiProject page. What do you think is a good title? Either WikiProject Astronomical Objects or WikiProject Heavenly Bodies would work in a pinch but we could probably come up with a better name (and then link it on the WikiProject page and under the Astronomy heading at Wikipedians by fields of interest. Ideas? --mav

 * Hadn't really thought about it, but I guess it is. :) If this were to be put under the heading of Heavenly Bodies I'd probably giggle every time I thought about it, so my vote's for Astronomical Objects. I'll have to look at the other WikiProject pages to get some idea of what's involved in one of these before I think of anything else to change, however. Bryan

 * Okay, I think I see how this works. I'm still bogged down with work right now, though, so I'm going to put off moving everything over to a WikiProject page for a day or so. Bryan

 * Well all I did for WP Elements was move the template - I never really bothered reformatting everything to follow the WikiProject guidelines. Yeah, "Heavenly Bodies" would make me giggle too. No hurry. :) --mav

On a similar line, I want to do a WikiProjectette about the 88 constellations. I've already started doing it on the French wiki, and I've done Andromeda (constellation) here. I would like your view on disambiguation (Mav pointed me to you on Talk:Andromeda.) I would like to make Andromeda a disambiguation page, moving the current article to Andromeda (mythology), and so do with the other constellations that are named after mythological characters, much as has been done for other objects (see Ganymede for an example). Your input please? - Montrealais

Thanks for importing the Tower of Hanoi algorithm. It was actually me that wrote it on Know-How, it was a pleasant surpise to see it arrive here! :-) -- Tarquin 14:05 Dec 14, 2002 (UTC)

 * No problem. I was uncertain how best to attribute it, though; I thought perhaps I should add something to the talk page. But I ended up deciding that the history of the article contained attribution, so no more was needed. :) Bryan

Hi Bryan. I thought you might be interested in the editing that's currently going on in astrology, zodiac, and horoscope. If you want to see something really funny but really sad, check out the editing history of Walter Mercado. I've started a discussion on the village pump about this. It's very discouraging to see how the true believers in astrology have undone your work on zodiac and tried to turn it into a one-sided, credulous "how-to" article. Something similar has happened with Walter Mercado -- repeated attempts to change the article to a neutral point of view, followed by reversions to the biased version later. Well, I'd appreciate any help I could get, because it takes a lot of energy to argue and argue, and edit and edit.

title: User talk:Bryan Derksen/Archive 2


text:
User talk:Bryan Derksen/Archive 3

Hey Bryan; I've started a new thread over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements about a concept for nav bars and locator maps. Your views, opinions and HTML skills are requested. :) --mav

Bryan, if you have some time, will you write something about horseshoe orbits? I don't quite understand how they work and I am curious. Thanks. PattonZarate

 * Sure, I'll take a crack at it. I'll have effectively zero time tomorrow, but the day after is good. But I barely understand them myself, so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help. :) Bryan

 * Thanks. I will also look somewhere to see if I can find some sort of graphical representation. PattonZarate

 * The site http://www.astro.queensu.ca/~wiegert/3753/3753.html has a great deal of good stuff about weird orbits like this, and not just 3753 Cruithne's. I once wrote the author for permission to use some of it on Wikipedia, but never got a response.

 * Also, go over to www.xoverboard.com and read the entry on September 25, 2002 regarding Scrooge McDuck and his purported wealth. I think you'll get a kick out of it. PattonZarate

 * Heh. I can sort of believe McDuck's relatively low ranking; I mean, his idea of investing his money is just throwing it all in a giant money pit. But what's with Lex Luthor only having a measily four billion dollars? This is the guy who single-handedly financed the rebuilding of Gotham City and Metropolis! And Thurston Howell III is listed as having twice as much! Can you imagine Lex Luthor being stuck on that island? Gilligan and the rest would be dead within a week, and the island itself converted into a secret LexCorp research facility of some kind.

 * I'm sorry, I seem to be digressing. :) Bryan 07:11 Sep 30, 2002 (UTC)

 * Funny! PattonZarate

Why did you remove the text centering from the table of line-ending characters in the ASCII entry, and replace it with cellpadding/cellspacing attributes? You should note that these table-level attributes have no effect if the user has chosen a skin/stylesheet like Cologne Blue, which specifies them via CSS properties at the td level. -- mjb

 * Just personal aesthetics, I guess; I find tables more readable in general when the text all starts at the same spot, whereas centered text makes my eyes go jagged when I scan down the column. The cellspacing/padding attributes are ones which I add to virtually all the tables I edit, also for aesthetic reasons (and if they're overridden, that's fine; that's what style sheets are for). Bryan

Bryan: I'm working on developing sep11.wikipedia.org. Until it's ready, I would appreciate it if you didn't delete the Memoriam page. Your help is welcome. --The Cunctator

 * It hasn't been deleted, copies of the page are stored in both the page's history and on the meta site. When sep11.wikipedia.org is ready, it will be trivial to retrieve this for it. Bryan

I believe you know what I'm talking about when I said "delete".

 * Yeah, but I was glad it was finally gone from Wikipedia and the fact that its contents were still accessible if and when someone wanted to make it available elsewhere was good enough IMO.

sep11: doesn't work fine. It has broken links. It's not fully set up. The blue background needs to be changed. Etc. It's still, as they say, in beta. But now that there are clean redirects the primary detriment to user experience has been removed. I'd appreciate your help in improving the site. --The Cunctator

 * No thanks, I barely have time for Wikipedia itself these days.

Hi Brian, Maverick149 thought you would like to knwo about this bug (I also filed a bug report)

See screendump ScrPrint.gif

Explorer renders somes pages in a weird way.

Mav says the Periodic Table should always fit on the screen (Table width = 100%)

It does not in Explorer 5.5. and 6.

What is even more horrid: when I scroll to the right the tabIe moves underneath the menu, showing both intermingled (see screen dump)

I've seen this now on three PC's: Win2000 MSIE 5.5 Win98 MSIE 5.5 (screen dump) lowres screen Win XP MSIE 6 hires screen

The effect occurred on other pages too. Even if it is an Explorer issue only, some 90% or more of the Wikipedians probably use Explorer, at least half of them 5.5 or higher.

Erik Zachte

the text doesnt shrink for me Lir 06:45 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * When you make the table wider and the total width of the screen stays the same, the space available beside it gets narrower. That's only part of the problem, though. If the factsheet template changes, then I've got to go around and update all of the other planets and moons that have them as well; before I go to all that trouble, I insist on being convinced that it's a good idea. Please take this up over on Talk:Solar system/Factsheet template.

well id love to take it up on that talk page but as far as i can tell you and I are the one ones reading it. now if you want, you could have the table be above the text instead of beside it. Frankly, I never liked having the damn boxes besides the text to begin with. I think having to update the other stuff is a pretty lame excuse since thats what im trying to do...Lir 06:53 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * Jeronimo, Maveric, and Fonzy have all contributed significantly to the talk page and to the template, and Maveric has been active there during the past hour or so while this kerfuffle has blown up. As for what you think about the table design, why should I care if you're not willing to work to convice me in a reasonable manner? I can revert stuff just as easily as you can, regardless of whether you think my excuse is "lame", and will continue to do so until you show me why I shouldn't. Bryan

Your excuse is lame! You don't want me to update the Earth page because then Id have to update all the pages? What the hell concern is it of yours if I go through and update all the pages?

 * what concern is it of yours if I go through and revert all of them?

You still haven't explained what your problem is with the damn table except that you didn't make it. Lir 07:04 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * I have explained what my problem is, and none of the reasons I gave were "I didn't make it" (in fact, the current template has a number of sections and details which other folks added to it, so I didn't make all of the current one either). If you are interested in a more detailed discussion, there's a certain talk: page I've been suggesting where we could do that.

 * BTW, saying that my excuses are lame is a lame way to have a debate.

Hey Bryan. I am discussing on the talk page. But where are you? You haven't given any reason whats wrong with my table except you are using a substandard and atypical resolution. Lir 07:18 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * I've been trying, but I've been getting edit conflicts every time I try to save for the past five minutes or so. Slow down a bit. :) Bryan

So why doesn't anybody add some chatrooms? That would save a lot of trouble and time. Lir 07:28 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

And I'd just like to point out that basically, I've never, had an issue with someone modifying or adapting my text. It's only when I add new info that nobody disputes BUT GODDAMN FUCKING EVERYTHING GETS REVERTED because somebody doesn't like one minor point. Lir 07:29 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

What was with the changes to Earth? I notice Lir changed Cm to M in one place, and removed <sup> tags within a link, changing the link. I was about to check the additions when you reverted it. --KQ

 * Sorry, that last one was just a straight reversion-to-previous-version, assuming that Lir had only gone and replaced the table again. I'll check the diff for anything that should have been merged instead. Bryan

 * Just double-checked, and as I'd surmised Lir's most recent change was just a replacement of the table again. No other changes were undone in the reversion. Bryan

Well wahts the problem with it now? I can't fix something if I don't know what you think is wrong with it Lir 07:47 Nov 12, 2002 (UTC)

 * I've been telling you what I think over on the template talk page. You've been ignoring it completely, as far as I can tell. Why shouldn't I ignore you right back? This is getting boring. Bryan

 * And ive been fixing every complaint you have, so clearly Im not ignoring you.

ring current needs its own page. Whether to describe Earth's ring current on the van allen page or ring current is another question_I tend to see the ring current as NOT being part of the van allen belts as they are two van allen belts, inner and outer, and the outer belt is surrounded by the ring current. Lir 00:48 Nov 13, 2002 (UTC) - Hey Bryan,

The Factsheet is really a WikiProject, no? It would be great to move the Factsheet and its talk page to a WikiProject page. What do you think is a good title? Either WikiProject Astronomical Objects or WikiProject Heavenly Bodies would work in a pinch but we could probably come up with a better name (and then link it on the WikiProject page and under the Astronomy heading at Wikipedians by fields of interest. Ideas? --mav

 * Hadn't really thought about it, but I guess it is. :) If this were to be put under the heading of Heavenly Bodies I'd probably giggle every time I thought about it, so my vote's for Astronomical Objects. I'll have to look at the other WikiProject pages to get some idea of what's involved in one of these before I think of anything else to change, however. Bryan

 * Okay, I think I see how this works. I'm still bogged down with work right now, though, so I'm going to put off moving everything over to a WikiProject page for a day or so. Bryan

 * Well all I did for WP Elements was move the template - I never really bothered reformatting everything to follow the WikiProject guidelines. Yeah, "Heavenly Bodies" would make me giggle too. No hurry. :) --mav

On a similar line, I want to do a WikiProjectette about the 88 constellations. I've already started doing it on the French wiki, and I've done Andromeda (constellation) here. I would like your view on disambiguation (Mav pointed me to you on Talk:Andromeda.) I would like to make Andromeda a disambiguation page, moving the current article to Andromeda (mythology), and so do with the other constellations that are named after mythological characters, much as has been done for other objects (see Ganymede for an example). Your input please? - Montrealais

Thanks for importing the Tower of Hanoi algorithm. It was actually me that wrote it on Know-How, it was a pleasant surpise to see it arrive here! :-) -- Tarquin 14:05 Dec 14, 2002 (UTC)

 * No problem. I was uncertain how best to attribute it, though; I thought perhaps I should add something to the talk page. But I ended up deciding that the history of the article contained attribution, so no more was needed. :) Bryan

Hi Bryan. I thought you might be interested in the editing that's currently going on in astrology, zodiac, and horoscope. If you want to see something really funny but really sad, check out the editing history of Walter Mercado. I've started a discussion on the village pump about this. It's very discouraging to see how the true believers in astrology have undone your work on zodiac and tried to turn it into a one-sided, credulous "how-to" article. Something similar has happened with Walter Mercado -- repeated attempts to change the article to a neutral point of view, followed by reversions to the biased version later. Well, I'd appreciate any help I could get, because it takes a lot of energy to argue and argue, and edit and edit.

Bryan, thanks for the very nice formatting change to my two pics in the opal article. They certainly look a lot smarter embeded in the text. Is there any way to avoid the use of br's to adjust the length of each caption line? It seems that if I want to insert or remove text in the caption I have to readjust all the br's. Thanks again, Arpingstone 08:31 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

 * I think it should be possible to tell the tables to only be as wide as the images they contain, and then the text will automatically reformat itself to fit. However, this requires that you know how big the images are in pixels. I was just about to head off to bed right now, but I've got a bunch of time tomorrow so I'll fiddle around with it and see what I can do. Bryan

 * Well, I guess I'm really bad at leaving Wikipedia when there's work to be done. :) I just added the width="250" attribute to tell the tables to be 250 pixels wide, and removed the line break tags, and that seems to have worked out okay. How's that look? Bryan

 * That looks very good, Bryan. Thanks for your help. Now I have to edit my ten or so picture sites to make them look the same!
 * Arpingstone 16:40 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

A view has been expressed by another editor on Talk:Star that the nuclear reaction pathways merit their own article. An article titled stellar nucleosynthesis already exists. How do you feel about refactoring? -- Alan Peakall 12:23 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Hi Bryan. I contributed an article under "Ferdowsi", and I noticed that you deleted the first two paragraphs from it and moved the rest under Shahnameh.

While I think the Shahnameh page that you have created serves well for the book itself, I kinda feel all my efforts for the Author (Ferdowsi) were thrown into a bit bucket. What ever happened to my original article and how can I do this right? Thanks. --Keyvan

 * I didn't delete anything, I just split the article into two; one for Ferdowsi and one for Shahnameh. I felt that the bulk of the Ferdowsi article you wrote was actually focused on the book, and would be better suited standing on its own under that title.

 * To get at material from older revisions of an article, click on the "Older versions" link at the top of the page and then select the one with the stuff you want in it. You can then copy and paste material from there into the current revision of the article, to restore stuff that was deleted. However, in this case, it looks like a merge is required since there was already an article on this person over at Ferdosi. Bryan

K1 as I mentioned on your discussion page, I have redirected Ferdowsi to Ferdosi. Your article was only a duplicate of the one I had written before. If you have anything other than what is written you may edit the page Ferdosi. Alireza Hashemi

Looks like be have an abuser here, can you please look into this? thanks.

Re: Earth Standard template? What standard template? I've looked high and low for any kind of table standard, and I've yet to find it.

 * It's over at WikiProject Astronomical Objects, and currently all planets and moons (except for some of the smaller outer moons I haven't got around to updating yet) use this template for their factsheet. The format of the caption is a pretty minor thing, but even so I think it's important that these tables try to look as consistent as possible; it looks more professional that way. Bryan

-- Ambiplasma is an orphan. Could you find some articles to link to it? Kingturtle 02:15 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)

Hi Bryan, there are literally hundreds of articles in Wikipedia comparing a movie with the book on which it is based (there are very few exceptions such as The Boys from Brazil, where there are two separate entries). As far as Mildred Pierce is concerned, the comparison of the two was one of the major points of the former article, which you split up into two parts. Each of these new articles lacks information contained in the other one. In addition, you created a disambiguation page where none was needed before. My question is short and simple: Why? --KF 19:50 24 May 2003 (UTC)

 * Because I was repeatedly clicking "random page" that evening, and I came across an article that appeared to be about two different things that shared the same name. When I see an article like that, I disamgibuate. If you think it works better as it was go ahead and revert, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. Bryan 20:04 24 May 2003 (UTC)

 * Okay, thanks. KF 20:15 24 May 2003 (UTC)

-

Thanks for the Explosion stub! -- Tarquin 16:12 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * No problem. I'll add more now, I only had a few minutes to throw it together this morning. :) Bryan 23:22 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Bryan, I saw some of your discussion with User:Docu which has now been moved to Wikipedia talk:How to use tables. As I am the principal author (to date) of the table examples, I can understand where you're coming from about the lack of closing tags. I prefer to always use closing tags, but according to the HTML 4.01 specification, they are indeed optional (and always have been). In XHTML and XML they are a requirement. For Wikipedia articles, it may be better to leave off the optional closing tags to make editing easier, especially for newbies. As you probably know, it is often the case that a table is being used inappropriately in the first place. Converting those to lists or another appropriate structure may benefit both readability and editability.

I'd appreciate any input or contributions you may have to the How to use tables article. Also, you may want to check out the Wikipedia accessibility meta page I've started for discussing accessibility issues - it'd be great to have your feedback! Thanks. -- Wapcaplet 20:28 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Hmph. Guess I should stop my mad quest to fix all the tables after all, then. :) I'll pop over and see what I can add to the discussion. I'm hoping that Wikipedia will move in the direction of XHTML someday, so that MathML support can be more easily added, but I suppose that will require some sort of built-in translation for table code either way. Bryan 21:24 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I agree! It'd be nice to see Wikipedia move to XHTML (or even XML) someday, but it'd be a bit harder to stay valid with those, since they are stricter than the loose HTML DTD used now. As someone pointed out to me, we can pretty easily fix closing-tag issues with a conversion script, if/when that day comes. -- Wapcaplet 22:47 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

-- There is a problem with the placement of elements 71 and 103 that I've mentioned at talk:periodic table. --mav

Table white space
Just so you know, white space (blank lines) between HTML table elements are displayed as blank lines before a table when it is displayed in at least Konqueror. --mav 22:38, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Well, shoot. The HTML tidy program I run most of my table code through after I'm done working on it inserts those blank lines automatically. I'll have to remember to trim them out manually before pasting them in. Bryan

1017 tesla
You wrote in tesla that 1017 T is the maximum possible field strength for any known phenomenon. Can you give me any clues about how this value was calculated, please? I'd like to add an explanation to the article (assuming I know enough physics to understand your reply). -- Heron 13:44, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)

 * It was a factoid that I read in an article about magnetars, I think it was in a recent Scientific American. As I recall, that was the maximum field strength that a neutron star was calculated to be capable of holding, and that nothing more capable than neutron stars were known - so it's a practical limit, rather than a theoretical one. I'd have to go back and find that article again to say more, I'll search tonight when I get home. Bryan

Thanks. Excuse me if I don't respond quickly next time, but I shall be away from Wikipedia for a few days. -- Heron

 * Okay, here's what the article says. "An upper limit to neutron-star magentism is about 1017 gauss; beyond this limit, the fluid inside the star would tend to mix and the field would dissipate. No known objects in the universe can generate and maintain fields stronger than this level." The fluid-mixing thing is in reference to the convection currents inside a neutron star that generate a dynamo effect. This is from the February 2003 issue.

 * Right off the bat, my face is red; the article uses gauss throuhout instead of Tesla, so all the neutron-star-related values I put into the Tesla article are off by a factor of 104. I'll fix that immediately.

 * The Scientific American article has a couple of other interesting factoids about extreme magnetism. It mentions the quantum electrodynamic threshold of 4×1013 gauss, above which X-ray photons freely split in two or merge together. Polarized light waves change wavelength when they enter very strong magnetic fields, and the scattering of photons by electrons or other charged particles is suppressed if the magnetic field prevents the charged particle from accelerating in the direction it needs to. Fields above 109 gauss squeeze electron orbitals into cigar shapes; in a 1014 gauss field a hydrogen atom becomes 200 times narrower.

 * Don't know if you want to incorporate any of these, but if you want to here they are. :) Bryan

Thanks. I put a short note in tesla about the upper limit. I'll wait on the other stuff until I'm feeling more ambitious :-) -- Heron

This isn't really a big deal, but regarding your edit to harp just now - is there really anything wrong with using an apostrophe when pluralising single letters? Every style guide I've looked at (which admittedly isn't many) says that it's acceptable, or even desireable, to use an apostrophe in this case. --Camembert

 * If there's a style guide that covers that specific situation, then that's probably the correct way to do it. I was operating only under the general guideline that apostrophized s is only used as an abbreviation of "is" and as a possessive. I see incorrect apostrophized s everywhere these days and it grates on me, so I get a bit trigger-happy. Bryan

 * Well, the AP style guide says to use an apostrophe on plurals of single letters, but not on plurals of multiple letter abbreviations, and somebody's told me that Chicago says to use apostrophes on lower case single letters, but not upper case. The idea is to avoid ambiguity between multiple letter As and the word "as", for example. It's not a big deal, as I say. --Camembert

"lightcraft" is non-standard naming for beam-powered propulsion, for which you have a largely identical article. Wouldn't a redirect be more than enough?

 * "beam-powered propulsion" is a very general term. It covers lightcraft, solar sails, magsails, and possibly other types of ship as well. Lightcraft are a specific type of beam-powered ship, and as such I believe they warrant their own article. Bryan

Bryan, I think I may have found an error in a page you wrote; can you check out Talk:Liouville-Neumann series? Carl

Hello! Thanks for the brave move of moving Arpad (etc) into Árpád. Are you sure that it won't cause problems for the USA guys who cannot probably write accents? Other thing: isn't it expected that if someone moves an article then fixes the links/references to the new one? --grin 09:11, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * It's not a problem, fortunately, because thanks to redirects linking Arpad still works just fine. Since this redirect is automatically created when a page is moved using the "move this page" function, one normally doesn't have to do anything to fix other page's references. The only exception that comes to mind is when there are already redirects pointing to the original location; since redirects only go one step (to prevent loops from forming) double redirects need to be updated. I've just checked (via the "what links here" function) and there are no double redirects for Arpad, so everything looks to be in order to me. Bryan 02:49, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'd like to coordinate w/ you re IFF article: you may have noticed that i created one despite the one you worked on, and someone collapsed "yours" into "mine". I have two concerns:
 * 1) The more substantial history got disconnected from the article.
 * 2) The unofficial title is the article and the official is the redirect.
 * 3) The old article title is misleadingly described

 * I think i know how to repair #1, and would like the practice; if you don't follow what i'm talking abt, let's discuss.
 * As to #2:
 * IMO, the WP MoS recommendation should be no punctuation in article titles except hyphen, paren, & apostrophe; but include redirects to WP-std name where an outside standard or other common usage says otherwise
 * IMO, what it should be is irrelevant if cases like this have been anticipated in a previous consensus
 * IMO, #1 & #2 need to be corrected at the same time, not piecemeal
 * #3 is natural to fix as part of the above. --Jerzy 07:50, 2003 Nov 18 (UTC)

 * It looks like my only contribution to that article was to add a link and to remove a stray HTML tag that had no real effect on the article's display. I know nothing about how IFF works or anything like that, I probably just came across the article at random one day. So don't worry about coordinating with me, just do your thing and I'm sure it will be fine. :) Bryan 08:05, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Tnx, B; i'll go read up on the punc'n issue. --Jerzy 08:18, 2003 Nov 18 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bryan Derksen/Archive 3