text:
Template talk:Infobox color

Color ranges
Adding the International Klein Blue (Pantone 285) I found different values for the CMYK value ( and ). I suppose that one of the problems is that the color ranges are different. Is the following correct?: I will convert the CMYK value I've found (0-100) to the correct range (0-255). Please, if I'm wrong please correct the International Klein Blue article. Thanks. --suruena 16:23, 2005 Apr 9 (UTC)
 * Hex triplet : 00 - FF
 * RGB: 0 - 255
 * CMYK: 0 - 255
 * HSV: 0-360°, 0-100%, 0-100%

 * Ranges are part of the problem, but the most important thing is that conversion to CMYK is not standardised. This is why CMYK has no place in these info boxes, except for colors defined by some standard in terms of CMYK. Notinasnaid 10:07, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Units
I propose to put "units" to the infobox because this would help to identify the ranges: --suruena 10:32, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
 * HSV (h, s, v) (°, %, %)
 * Done. I've also noted the range into which the other units are normalised. I shall do my best to go back and check this. --Phil | Talk 08:38, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Hello again. If the CMYK value is now being normalised to 0-100 I think we should add some % to specify the units (as with the HSV, like above): Also, why not use the same range for the RGB values? I know very little about this theme, but IMHO altough nowadays 8bits are used to represent a component of an RGB value probably in the future the number of bits used to represent every component will be increased. So a percentage is an exact solution that assures the "future", and anyway no information is lost because the 24bit RGB value is maintained in the hex triplet. So I propose to change the RGB representation too: --surueña 08:25, 2005 May 11 (UTC)
 * CMYK (c, m, y, k) (%, %, %, %)
 * RGB (r, g, b) (%, %, %)

modular/splitting template
I suggest a way to add a line "this color is also a named web color" with its hex triplet and swatch.. Circeus 21:49, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * This infobox is big enough for the time being. Also bear in mind that actually very few colors which will have their own article are ikely to be valid web colors. The standard 16 web colors, and the extra added for CSS, are already linked using web colors. If you want to link to X11 color names from each article linked from there, feel free. Please make a note of what you are doing at WikiProject Color. --Phil | Talk 09:05, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

Please think twice
I think the color values you provide here can be misinformation. Has any of you consulted a real color expert before doing this? You cannot send a set of RGB or CMYK values to a printer (I mean a person, not a computer peripheral) and expect him/her to give you your expected color. These color spaces are device-dependant!

You cannot just create a color in Photoshop and get its color values from that program. -- Toytoy 01:47, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree. Does anyone else see a major problem with the whole concept of providing these boxes for nonstandardised colors? It is original research, and should be removed. Notinasnaid 10:01, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Changing to [0-100]
I know what "Normalized to [0-255]" means, but what does "Changing to [0-100]" mean? Lefty 07:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

sRGB
I think it should read sRGB instead of RGB. Not only would it be preferable to have an absolute color space in the infobox, but I think that most RGB values in this infobox are already in sRGB as it is. Any comments? Shinobu 02:00, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

 * It would at least have some meaning. At the moment it is not meaningful except for colors that are defined by some standard in uncalibrated RGB. The CMYK should absolutely be removed in all cases except those that are uncalibrated CMYK in some standard.  But there is a far more serious problem with these info boxes: there are no sources, no references. Under Wikipedia rules anything without a source should be removed.  If the box is to remain, it needs to indicate according to what standard or reference this is "Red", "Burnt umber" or whatever. I think a significant amount of (forbidden) original research has gone into some of the colors. Notinasnaid 21:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Hear hear. How about defining a field that could contain a) a reference (this color is ... by standard this-and-that), b) a definition (this color is red by definiton of the sRGB color model) or c) a notice like "this is only a sample of what this colour might look like and the values used to..." etc. etc. That way the user would know what the numbers mean. If we want to keep the CMYK colors, we would need to have a properly defined CMYK color space. Shinobu 08:39, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

color vs. colour
I just reverted a change at Orange (colour) where an anon changed all of the instances of "colour" (which was standard within the article) to "color". While I'm sure the edit was made in good faith, I reverted it to "colour" since the article was at "colour", rather than "color", and since guidelines suggest that consistency is important. I realized soon afterwards that I should check for other instances of the word "color" rather than "colour" in the article, and started a quick word search. I noted that each instance of this template used "color". Since this is awkward for articles written with the "colour" spelling, I propose that another parameter be added to this template: spelling. If there were a parameter that let the spelling be set, it would be much easier to standardize articles without automatically favoring the spelling used by this template. Nihiltres 19:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Since nobody's responded, I'm going to try to modify the template myself. I'll add how to use this extra feature to the template documentation once I'm done. Nihiltres 16:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Direct color
I would add Direct color:

The user could specify yes / no. By default direct color name would be set to 'no. See : Template:Shades_of_green, [edit] Shades of green in text. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Altermike (talk • contribs) 09:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

infobox "about" link image
While I think that the addition of the as a link explaining the infobox is quite appropriate, its overlap with the "hex"-parameter-coloured field can be disruptive in some articles, such as Orange (colour), where its blue color in comparison to the one discussed is disruptive or jarring. If someone can figure out a way to change the template so as to avoid this problem, I'm sure that many users will appreciate the small aesthetic improvement. Suggestions? Nihiltres 00:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I can think of a couple possibilities. One is to use an approach similar to textcolor. However that would require alternate versions of the image. Another possibility is to move it to the Color coordinates line. It actually might make more sense to have it there. PaleAqua 00:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks much nicer now that you've moved it - I agree that it makes more sense there. Thanks, Nihiltres 02:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

suggestion
would it be possible to add an option to have a block of the colour instead of a image? as it can be hard to get an idea of the colour from just the background of the text. I would do it myself but don't have that much experience with template making, and don't want to break anything.--UltraMagnus (talk) 16:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

 * How big a block? I suppose this is doable, although I'm still not convinced it's that useful. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Automatic conversion
We do have some color conversion templates. I suggest we employ them in this template so there only needs to be one set of RGB specified (probably in percentages) and others, like hash code, 8bit RGB values, HSL, HSV and probably more (not CMYK of course) would be generated automatically. — Christoph Päper 23:46, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * We applied automatic conversion on it.wikipedia (see it:Template:Infobox colore generico and it:Template:Codifica colore). In this way, hex code is used to calculate automatically the following parameters: R, G, B, C, M, Y, K, H, L and V. Wavelenght is used instead to calculate frequency and photon energy. Please let me know if we can use the same principle here. --Daniele Pugliesi (talk) 14:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Adding caption= parameter
Most templates which include images also include the ability to optionally include. Over at Indigo, a caption would be helpful. Can we add the caption parameter as implemented elsewhere? --Lexein (talk) 02:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

 * I was about to post exactly the same message. Is there anyone that could look at this? Formerip (talk) 01:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Why do things the easy way?! I've updated the entire infobox. (dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age).
 * See Sample. Compare with current version in Red
 * See code here.
 * The only option that I couldn't implement is "|nocoords=  "  but I don't think any instances actually use this option?
 * Any concerns or objections? (I've done basic testing, and all aspects seem to be working.) If it seems ok, we can throw an (Edit protected) template up, and get an admin to copy it across. Ta. -- Quiddity (talk) 09:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Might make sense to copy it into the sandbox for the template just before throwing the edit protected up. ( I still think this infobox needs a major rethink, but that's a side discussion, and I've mostly retired from editing Wikipedia ) PaleAqua (talk) 05:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sandbox (and therefor Template:Infobox color/testcases) Done.
 * The color variants (at the bottom) don't stretch full width in the new version, but that can be tweaked later if needed. Making the infobox easier to change/update is one of the main benefits of switching to infobox. I'll put an editprotected up in 12 hours or so. -- Quiddity (talk) 19:55, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Is "pic=" more standard than "image=" now? Anyways, in Sample I tested the caption= parameter - works! I look forward to this updated template being globally available. --Lexein (talk) 21:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Image=" is standard, but "pic=" is what this template currently uses, so to change it would require a bot-run to change all existing intances in each article... Or, I could do some convoluted doublecoding and make both options work, and then change all the articles once the new code is in place... I think I'll do that. -- Quiddity (talk) 22:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Please copy the code from Template:Infobox color/sandbox over to Template:Infobox color. Per consensus above, and completed testing. Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 22:15, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I made a slight tweak to the sandbox to fix a bug in variants 3-8, and also added them to the test cases. PaleAqua (talk) 07:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

 * ✅, with a couple of minor tweaks to use Unicode directly for degrees and dashes. Thanks! Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 09:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Updated doc for caption= & image= --Lexein (talk) 10:42, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fixes, corrections, and implementation! I've updated all articles to use "image=" instead of "pic=" . That code to support the old "pic=" can (probably) be removed from the template, at any time. -- Quiddity (talk) 11:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Once more please, copy the code from Template:Infobox color/sandbox to this template. This change fixes some linewrap problems, using 2 nowrap templates, and removes some trailing spaces (see the testcases page for before&after examples). Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 11:42, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

 * ✅, with some additional tidying of the title, image and header code. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 08:08, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

New version of the template breaks ## example values in wavelength and frequency parameters.
Looks like the new version is causing # to be treated as a numbered list when given as part of a parameter for wavelengths and frequencies. Probably not really worth fixing as it is rarely used that way and I fixed the one instance I found. PaleAqua (talk) 00:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Fixing variations so that they are once again full width.
I've updated the sandbox so variations are once again full width. Look okay? (see testcases) PaleAqua (talk) 08:49, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Aslo per consensus from a while back at the Color project, should we switch the wording to "Some shades of" instead of "Some variations of"? PaleAqua (talk) 08:55, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good. And I'd support the wording change, based on that consensus (changed in sandbox). -- Quiddity (talk) 09:22, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I tweaked it a little further to put the name of the sample to the left instead of directly above the bock with color. What do you think? I also wonder if the shade samples should be moved up to just below the image with the "shades of" header dropped. PaleAqua (talk) 16:17, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Half-width blocks looks really good, and does indeed simplify the text-contrast issue.
 * I don't think moving them up would help, as they're more of a supplemental level of detail, and not core. If a color variant is important(defined), then (at least in the way our articles are currently structured) they tend to have their own subsection and their own infobox (eg Desert sand (color)). Possibly you're thinking along these lines in regard to your earlier comments about needing to rethink the entire thing? (I'd be curious to see details/examples of proposed overhauls :) . -- Quiddity (talk) 20:49, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

This was what I was thinking awhile back Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Color/Archive 7. PaleAqua (talk) 21:39, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Also I think articles generally should only have one infobox color, with pictures and samples as necessary when talking about various shades, tints, and tones. PaleAqua (talk) 21:47, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 August 2012
Please copy the latest version of sandbox to the live template. ( I'm wondering if full protection is still necessary for this Infobox. Some of the other color project templates that were protected as highly visible templates have been since become semi-protected. )

PaleAqua (talk) 21:28, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

 * ✅, with the same entity -> Unicode tweak for degrees and dashes as before. As for unprotection, the usual procedure is to ask the admin who locked the template originally; I agree that this doesn't need more than semiprotection in any case, and personally I'd just drop protection altogether. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:39, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I just asked Wknight94 about unprotection. PaleAqua (talk) 13:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Add ref params
I'd like to add three optional params: RGBnote; HSVnote; and CMYKnote. If present, they will render after the closing parenthesis of the RGB, HSV, and CMYK value groups, respectively. The purpose is to provide cites for the individual coordinate sets, which are currently being inserted by appending them to the last color parameter in the set, creating ugly placement inside the parentheses and before the the final '%' (e.g. at Amaranth (color)). Any objections? —[  Alan M 1  (talk) ]— 23:15, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Those references should really be removed. Most of the coordinates given are Synthesis. The current over use of color infoboxes implies that the color has an exact one to one representation of color terms to (s)RGB coordinate, which is not true. The references are basically just color coordinate calculators. Also RGB <-> CMYK conversions are dependent on several of factors, include the type of paper and the set of inks, as well as the whole additive vs subtractive thing.. PaleAqua (talk) 00:57, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Removing symbolism parameter
In August 2013, removed the implementation of the   parameter in 9 of the 11 major color group articles as subjective, unsourced, and better covered in that article text. He/she removed the parameter from the remaining two articles (Green and Pink) about a month later for consistency. As it is unlikely to be used in any of the more specific color articles, should I remove the parameter outright? – Laundry Pizza 03  ( d c̄ ) 20:11, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

bad titleline
Please watch out: neither color coordinates can be found in this infobox. Only color coordinates would be CIE xy and CIELAB L*a*b*. All are missing from the infobox. ZJ (talk) 16:03, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

 * A good point. Where is the capacity to include L*a*b coordinates. GraemeLeggett (talk) 21:55, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I could easily code an automatic conversion to CIELab or CIELChab if there's consensus this information should appear in the infobox. Personally, I'm afraid this may not add much value to the articles about colors (but I might be wrong on this). CIELab is useful for measuring perceptual color contrast, but the coordinates themselves are not very useful for much else, see list of color spaces and their uses. To avoid feature creep (and the possible addition of as many color conversions as one can think of), I think it's best to pick which coordinates are really notable and useful, worthy of an encyclopedia for the general audience. I added CIELChuv because it is designed for perceptual uniformity and commonly used in information visualization. Like HSL and HSV, one can look at CIELChuv coordinates and have a good idea of what colour they represent, and comparisons between two pairs of such coordinates are meaningful to humans with normal vision: if two colours are perceived as having approximately the same lightness, L will be approximately the same regardless of other aspects; if they're perceived to have approximately the same hue, h will be approximately the same; and if they're approximately as colourful, even if their hues are very distinct, C will be approximately the same. You don't get that with the simpler HSV and HSL spaces, nor CIELab. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 18:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * My opinion that the title line must be "dominant wvelength of colour stimulus" in short: dominant wavelength to fill in the title line space of the template. ZJ (talk) 12:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Alignment
May I suggest a parameter to control the alignment of this infobox, as offered, for example, in Infobox_enzyme? This could help the readability of an article where the Infobox template is used within the body, such as Turquoise. Regards, Guffydrawers (talk) 12:52, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

CIE coordinates
For some colors, particularly colors of light rather than colors of objects, such as the "average color of the universe" Cosmic latte, it would make sense to provide the color's CIE coordinates in XYZ, xyY, or in the case of unspecified brightness, just xy. Could those be added as optional fields, to go alongside RGB values when appropriate? — Maggie David P. K. Haynes 2600:1700:C190:4AE0:24B6:2CC0:1A3C:2627 (talk) 21:12, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * . The CIE XYZ space isn't very useful per se. I added the CIE LCHuv (automatically calculated from the hex triplet) because the numbers mean something to humans. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 18:27, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

 * Please see this table. I arranged as highering hue angle according to the CIELAB. Mainly the hue angle values are bad in infoboxes.

 * R	G	B	L*	   C*	    hab
 * red	   255	0	0	53,2	104,5	40,0
 * orange	255	128	0	67,3	85,4	60,3
 * yellow	255	255	0	97,1	96,9	102,8
 * lime	128	255	0	89,9	109,2	128,2
 * green	0	255	0	87,7	119,8	136,0
 * dark green	0	255	128	88,5	89,4	148,9
 * cyan	0	255	255	91,1	50,1	196,4
 * dark blue	0	128	255	55,0	72,8	284,4
 * blue	0	0	255	32,3	133,8	306,3
 * violett	128	0	255	41,0	124,8	311,8
 * magenta	255	0	255	60,3	115,6	328,2
 * light red	255	0	128	54,9	84,7	2,4

 * What happens if you have the LCH but not the hex triplet? An infobox that only takes one parameter and calculates the others from it sounds limited. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Is this a real need? Do you have any colors with LCh values (and a reference to them) that are different from the calculated ones or that are outside the sRGB color space? I first added these fields on Jan 8th (9 days ago), and removed it shortly after I was able to calculate them automatically. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 18:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I come at this from the way of thinking in aircraft specs templates where the various values might be in a mix of feet and metres, lb and kg, mph or km/h or knots and the template takes what is given and outputs the missing ones. And I come to this infobox because of NIVO where there is no actual source of the colour just modellers giving their best estimate of paint mixes that look right and an interpretation of that as hex triplet GraemeLeggett (talk) 19:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. You're right to question the source for the hex triplet in NIVO. Reference #4 got me here and the NIVO article says it's colour FS:34096 which should be this which is  if you use a colour picker on the base image (or directly on a screenshot of the website). The Source field in the infobox says the current (incorrect) hex was computed from sRGB values and the computation is correct, but the values clearly are not. So I would (1) fix the hex and (2) cite  this as the source for the colour in the infobox and in the last paragraph of the text.
 * I've seen many color catalogues but none ever provides CIELCh coordinates, that's why I don't think it's worth the effort of providing a field for that - at least at the moment. It is possible that the CIELCh field in the infobox will be replaced by something like OKLCH in the future, but that's a very recent development (just added to CSS 4, and competes with HSLuv), while CIELCh is an old, widely used standard. --Fernando Trebien (talk) 23:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the standard illuminant must be the D65 as is writtn in sRGBB standard. ZJ (talk) 12:30, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Relevant comment on Talk:Shades of gray
I've commented on Talk:Shades of gray but I figure it's relevant here as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.67.227.181 (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Defining a Color "Class"
A constant hassle in this talkpage, in WP:COLOR, and pretty much all color articles, is the assumption that all colors can or should somehow be defined by specific sRGB coordinates. The format of these infoboxes has made it all too easy to find some questionable online source that will define any color term by sRGB, but I'd argue that most colors with an infobox should NOT be defined by a single sRGB coordinate and in many cases, no sRGB coordinates should be given at all.

I started a discussion in WP:COLOR, but it didn't get much traction. Technically, it is more specific to this template anyway. What I suggest(ed), is a way to classify colors based on how they are defined. I recommended the following classes:
 * based on a digital definition or defined directly to sRGB (or at least CIEXYZ) coordinates. This would include web colors (e.g. Shades of yellow) and most modern brand colors (e.g. Android green). These infoboxes would stay as-is.
 * based on a pigment, defined chemically (e.g. Prussian blue or mummy brown); these do not have a direct relation to CIEXYZ and may not even represent a precise color. I would completely remove sRGB coordinates from this class of colors.
 * based on some vague, imprecise natural referent (e.g. sapphire or sky blue), that must be best represented by a range of colors or shades. I'd be inclined to define these qualitatively instead of qualitative, or give an array of example colors, such as is done currently (in a way) with basic color terms like blue, see inset.
 * based inextricably on a fixed, "precise" natural referent (e.g. uranian blue), that could be represented by a single color, and could make sense to define as in sRGB.
 * a basic color term, (e.g. dark blue) that is vague by definition and can be related to a range of applicable colors, as we see in the inset, but defining dark blue in sRGB is pointless!
 * based on a proprietary referent (anything pantone, crayola, RAL, Munsell, etc.) that can mostly be transformed rather reliably to CIEXYZ; I've seen many claim that this is an IP problem, but I don't know enough about how that is handled in WP.

The content of an infobox would therefore differ depending on what class the color term falls into, and of course, there can be several definitions of a color in different color classes, as we already see with most basic colors like blue, which starts with 6 definitions of "blue", spanning several classes. An indication of the class, in the infobox, with a hoverbox defining the class would also be useful. Curran919 (talk) 11:28, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template talk:Infobox color


text:
John Doyle (Tipperary hurler)

John Doyle (12 February 1930 – 29 December 2010) was an Irish hurler who played as a left corner-back at senior level for the Tipperary county team.

Born in Holycross, County Tipperary, Doyle first played competitive hurling whilst at school in Thurles CBS. He arrived on the inter-county scene at the age of sixteen when he first linked up with the Tipperary minor team. He made his senior debut in the 1947-48 National League. Doyle went on to play a key part for Tipperary during a hugely successful era for the team, and won eight All-Ireland medals, ten Munster medals and eleven National Hurling League medals.

As a member of the Munster inter-provincial team for fifteen years, Doyle won six Railway Cup medals. At club level he won three championship medal with Holycross–Ballycahill.

For almost fifty years Doyle, together with Christy Ring, held a unique record as the only players to win eight All-Ireland medals on the field of play. This record was subsequently surpassed by Henry Shefflin. His record of National League medals has yet to be equalled.

Throughout his career Doyle made 54 championship appearances, a Tipperary record which stood until 9 August 2009 when it was surpassed by Brendan Cummins. His retirement came following Tipperary's defeat by Kilkenny in the 1967 championship.

Doyle is widely regarded as one of the greatest hurlers in the history of the game. During his playing days he won two Cú Chulainn awards, as well as being named Texaco Hurler of the Year in 1964. He has been repeatedly voted onto teams made up of the sport's greats, including at left corner-back on the Hurling Team of the Century in 1984 and the Hurling Team of the Millennium in 2000. He was a Fianna Fáil senator from 1969 to 1973.

Colleges
Doyle's hurling skills were honed during his schooling at Thurles CBS. Regarded as too good for CBS Primary School team, he was drafted into the secondary school's under-15 Croke Cup team in 1942. Doyle played at wing-forward as Thurles CBS won the championship that year.

Club
Doyle played his club hurling with Holycross–Ballycahill and his career spanned three decades. He made his senior championship debut in 1947.

In 1948 he played in his first championship decider with Lorrha providing the opposition. Doyle was singled out for particular praise while Philip Maher at centre-forward had the game of his life. After leading at half-time, Holycross took complete control in the second half and powered to a 4–10 to 2–4 victory. It was Doyle's first championship medal.

After failing to reach the same heights over the following two seasons, Holycross–Ballycahill reached the championship decider again in 1951. Clonoulty–Rossmore provided little opposition and Doyle collected a second championship medal following a 5–15 to 1-4 trouncing.

Doyle's team failed to retain their title once again, and it was 1954 before the team reached another championship decider. A comprehensive 6–5 to 2–3 defeat of Roscrea gave Doyle his third and final championship medal.

Minor
After having his presence requested for trials for the Tipperary minor team in May 1946, Doyle was an automatic choice at corner-back for the subsequent championship campaign. A 5–6 to 4–2 defeat of Cork in the provincial decider gave him his first Munster medal. The subsequent All-Ireland decider pitted Tipperary against Dublin for the second year in succession. Tipp looked destined for victory when, with just a minute left to play, Paddy Kenny sent over a free to give the team a one-point lead. The resultant puck-out posed an immediate goal threat. After being shouldered in the chest, Doyle ended up in the goal's rigging and Dublin scored to secure a narrow 1–6 to 0–7 victory.

Tipperary retained their provincial crown in 1947, with Doyle collecting a second Munster medal following a 2–4 to 1–2 defeat of Waterford. He later lined out in a second All-Ireland decider, however, Galway provided little opposition. A 9–5 to 1-5 trouncing gave Doyle an All-Ireland Minor Hurling Championship medal.

In 1948 Doyle was a senior figure with the Tipperary minor team and was appointed captain for the year. After huge victories over Limerick and Cork, Doyle's side were the red-hot favourites for the Munster crown. A remarkable 3–6 to 0–3 defeat by Waterford was the result, in what was Doyle's final game in the minor grade.

Three-in-a-row
Doyle made his senior debut in a National Hurling League defeat of Kilkenny in February 1948. Although still a minor, his appearance was brief and he was later released from the senior panel.

On 26 June 1949 Doyle made his senior championship debut in a Munster quarter-final replay against Cork. He impressed in that extra-time victory and was retained for the semi-final defeat of Clare, during which he had a mixed game. Doyle was dropped for the subsequent Munster decider against Limerick, however, on the day of the game he was a late addition to the starting fifteen. After trailing at the interval, Tipp eventually triumphed by 1–16 to 2–10, giving Doyle his first Munster medal. On 4 September 1949 Tipperary and Laois faced off in the All-Ireland decider and Doyle was playing at left corner-back. In a one-sided affair Tipp completely overpowered the Leinster champions on a score line of 3–11 to 0–3, giving Doyle his first All-Ireland medal.

Tipperary retained their provincial crown in 1950. A hard-fought 2–17 to 3–11 defeat of Cork in a tense game gave Doyle his second Munster medal. He later lined out in his second successive All-Ireland final on 3 September 1950, with age-old rivals Kilkenny providing the opposition. In a dull affair, Tipp looked to be heading for victory when Seán Kenny scored a goal to put the team four points ahead with just one minute left to play. Kilkenny fought back and a Jimmy Kelly goal from the puck-out reduced the deficit to just one point again. As "the Cats" were about to launch one final attack, the referee blew the whistle and Tipperary had won by 1–9 to 1–8. Doyle gave one of his best-ever All-Ireland displays as he collected his second All-Ireland medal. He rounded off the year by winning a National League medal following a 1–12 to 3–4 defeat of New York.

Tipperary's dominance of the provincial championship continued in 1951, with Doyle lining out against Cork in a third successive Munster decider. Cork's Christy Ring gave one of his best displays, however, the Tipperary full-back line of Doyle, Tony Brennan and Mickey "the Rattler" Byrne also gave a defiant performance. A 2–11 to 2–9 victory gave Doyle a third Munster medal. The subsequent All-Ireland decider against Wexford on 2 September 1951 provided Tipperary with the chance to secure a hat-trick of championship titles for the first time in over half a century. Nicky Rackard, Wexford's goal-scoring machine, was nullified by Tipp goalkeeper Tony Reddin, while Séamus Bannon, Tim Ryan and Paddy Kenny scored key goals which powered Tipp to a 7–7 to 3–9 victory. It was Doyle's third All-Ireland medal.

Fallow period
Doyle won a second National League medal in 1952, as New York were bested on a 6–14 to 2–5 score line. The dream of a fourth successive All-Ireland triumph came to an end when Cork defeated Tipp in the provincial decider.

Tipperary went into a period of decline following this, as Cork and Wexford had a stranglehold on the All-Ireland crown. In spite of this, Doyle added three more National League medals to his collection following defeats of Kilkenny in 1954, Wexford in 1955 and Kilkenny again in 1957.

A fourth All-Ireland
In 1958 Doyle won a fourth Munster medal as Tipperary regained the provincial crown following a 4–12 to 1-5 trouncing of reigning champions Waterford. It was Wall's first provincial medal at senior level. Tipp later defeated Kilkenny in the All-Ireland semi-final before lining out against Galway in the All-Ireland decider on 7 September 1958. Galway got a bye into the final without picking up a hurley. Liam Devaney, Donie Nealon and Larry Keane all scored goals for Tipperary in the first-half, while Tony Wall sent a seventy-yard free untouched to the Galway net. Tipp won the game by 4–9 to 2-5 giving Doyle his fourth All-Ireland medal.

Doyle won a sixth National League medal in 1959 following a 0–15 to 0–7 defeat of Waterford, however, Tipperary subsequently surrendered their provincial and All-Ireland crowns.

Tipperary asserted their dominance in 1960 by retaining the National League title with a 2–15 to 3–8 defeat of Cork. It was Doyle's seventh winners' medal in that competition. He later won a fifth Munster medal following a narrow 4–13 to 4–11 defeat of Cork in what has been described as the toughest game of hurling ever played. This victory allowed Tipperary to advance directly to an All-Ireland final meeting with Wexford on 4 September 1960. A certain amount of over-confidence was obvious in the Tipperary camp, particularly in trainer Phil Purcell's comment that no player was capable of marking Jimmy Doyle. The game ended in remarkable circumstances as the crowd invaded the pitch with a minute to go, mistaking the referee's whistle for the end of the game. When the crowd were finally moved off the pitch Tipperary continued playing with only twelve men, but Wexford won on a score line of 2–15 to 0–11. It was Doyle's first All-Ireland defeat.

Total dominance
1961 saw Doyle collect an eighth National League medal following a 6–6 to 4–9 defeat of Waterford. He later added a sixth Munster medal to his collection, as old rivals Cork were downed by 3–6 to 0–7. The absence of the All-Ireland semi-final allowed Tipperary to advance directly to the final itself, with Dublin's first native hurling team providing the opposition on 3 September 1961. The game was a close run thing, however, Tipp held on to win by 0–16 to 1–12. It was Doyle's fifth All-Ireland medal.

In 1962 Tipperary were still the kingpins of Munster. A 5–14 to 2-3 trouncing of Waterford in the decider gave Doyle a seventh Munster medal. Tipperary's nemesis of two years earlier, Wexford, waited in Croke Park to test them once again in the subsequent All-Ireland final on 2 September 1962. Wexford, however, were not the force of old and the side got off to possibly the worst start ever by a team in a championship decider. After just ninety seconds the Leinster champions were down by two goals, however, the game turned out to be much closer than people expected. Tipp eventually secured the win on a score line of 3–10 to 2–11, giving Doyle a sixth All-Ireland medal, a record haul for a Tipperary player.

After losing the following year's Munster final to Waterford in one of the hurling shocks of the decade, Tipperary bounced back in 1964 with Doyle collecting a ninth National League medal. Tipperary later cantered casually past Cork by fourteen points in the provincial decider, giving Doyle a record-equalling ninth Munster medal. The All-Ireland final on 6 September 1964 saw Kilkenny enter the game as firm favourites against Doyle's side. John "Mackey" McKenna scored Tipp's first goal after ten minutes as the Munster champions took a 1–8 to 0-6 interval lead. The second half saw Tipperary score goals for fun, with Donie Nealon getting a hat-trick and Seán McLoughlin another. Kilkenny were humiliated at the full-time whistle as Tipperary triumphed by 5–13 to 2–8. It was Doyle's seventh All-Ireland medal.

In 1965 Doyle won a tenth and final National League medal as New York were narrowly defeated on an aggregate score of 6–19 to 5-20. Tipperary demolished all opposition in the provincial championship once again and a 4–11 to 0-5 trouncing of Cork gave Doyle a record-breaking tenth Munster medal. Wexford were Tipp's opponents in the subsequent All-Ireland final on 5 September 1965, however, the game failed to live up to the two classic games between the two sides in 1960 and 1962. Victory went to Tipperary on that occasion by 2–16 to 0–10, courtesy of a brace of goals by Seán McLoughlin. The win gave Doyle a record-equalling eight All-Ireland medal.

Decline
After surrendering their provincial crown in 1966, Tipperary bounced back the following year, with Doyle winning a record tenth Munster medal following a 4–12 to 2–6 defeat of Clare. 3 September 1967 saw Kilkenny face Tipperary in the All-Ireland decider, and the game presented Doyle win the chance of making history by winning a record-breaking ninth All-Ireland medal. Tipp looked like continuing their hoodoo over their near rivals as they took a 2–6 to 1–3 lead at half-time. Goalkeeper Ollie Walsh was the hero for Kilkenny as he made a series of spectacular saves, however, the team lost Eddie Keher and Tom Walsh to injury in the second half. In spite of this, Kilkenny laid to rest a bogey that Tipperary had over the team since 1922, and a 3–8 to 2–7 victory resulted in defeat for Doyle's team. The defeat brought the curtain down on Doyle's inter-county career.

Sporting retirement
In retirement from inter-county hurling Doyle continued to work on his farm in Holycross. His status as one of the greatest players of all-time was further enhanced in 1984 and again in 2000 when he was named on the Gaelic Athletic Association's Hurling Team of the Century and the Hurling Team of the Millennium.

Political career
In later years he entered politics. He stood unsuccessfully as a Fianna Fáil candidate at the 1969 general election for the Tipperary North constituency, but was subsequently elected to Seanad Éireann on the Agricultural Panel. He served until 1973 when he lost his seat.

Recognition
Possessed of a strong physique and a long stride, Doyle was famed for his dependable close defensive play, marked by his ability to execute long clearances from very tight entanglements in his corner-back position. Individually, his mastery of the shoulder-to-shoulder charge, allied to an above average number of deliveries out of defence marked him apart. Collectively, with fellow inner-defenders, Michael Maher and Kieran Carey, he completed a very formidable trio as Tipperary's last line of defence for a ten-year period from the late 1950s. Their marshalling territory in front of goal was famously known as "Hell's Kitchen" because of the often tempestuous nature of the exchanges which greeted the dropping ball arriving from mid-field.

Gaelic games journalist Paddy Downey wrote of Doyle on the occasion of his record-equalling eighth All-Ireland medal in 1965: "If anyone is hurling deserved to join Ring on the magical pinnacle of fame, that man is John Doyle of Holycross...For seventeen years, and to this day, they have had John Doyle, who more than any other player of this generation, personifies that traditional image of Tipperary hurling and hurling men."

Clare hurling legend Jimmy Smyth wrote: "He embodied Tipperary hurling really. Tipperary had three great hurlers by the name of Doyle - you had Tommy, Jimmy, John. But if anyone spoke about 'Doyle' they weren't talking about Tommy or Jimmy, they were talking about John. When your name is reduced to either just your first or second name in the popular vernacular, then you're really something."

Eddie Keher, a contemporary hurler from Kilkenny and one of the greatest of all time, said: "John Doyle was an icon of the game. He's a true legend."

Seventeen years after his retirement from playing, Doyle received the ultimate honour during the GAA's centenary year in 1984 when he was chosen at left corner-back on the Hurling Team of the Century. He swapped to the right corner-back position on the Hurling Team of the Millennium in 2000, while he was also named on special Munster and Tipperary all-time teams.

Personal life
Born in Holycross, County Tipperary on 12 February 1930, Doyle was the first child born to Tim and Margaret Doyle. Six weeks later his mother died from purpureal fever, leaving the young Doyle to be raised by his forty-two-year-old father. After a year Doyle was sent to Dungarvan, County Waterford where he was raised by his aunt. On returning home to Holycross, Doyle was enrolled in the Sacred Heart College for Little Boys in Thurles, a boarding school for young boys who had lost their mothers. After a year spent here, he began his formal education at Gaile National School. As an eleven-year-old Doyle was sent to Thurles CBS where he finished his primary education and received a limited secondary education.

At the age of fourteen, Doyle was forced to leave school and begin work on the family farm. Together they worked the land until December 1953 when Doyle's father died after a year-long battle with stomach cancer.

On 1 October 1955 Doyle married Anne Reidy at the Church of the Seven Wells near Sixmilebridge, County Clare. The couple had seven children including Michael.

John Doyle died on 29 December 2010.

Team

 * Thurles CBS
 * Croke Cup under-15: 1942

 * Holycross–Ballycahill
 * Tipperary Senior Hurling Championship (3): 1948, 1951, 1954

 * Tipperary
 * All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (8): 1949, 1950, 1951, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965
 * Munster Senior Hurling Championship (10): 1949, 1950, 1951, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967
 * National Hurling League (10): 1949-50, 1951–52, 1953–54, 1954–55 (c), 1956–57, 1958–59, 1959–60, 1960–61, 1963–64, 1964–65
 * Oireachtas Cup (6): 1949, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1965
 * All-Ireland Minor Hurling Championship (1): 1947
 * Munster Minor Hurling Championship (2): 1946, 1947

 * Munster
 * Railway Cup (6): 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1960, 1961 (sub), 1963, 1966 (sub)

Individual

 * Honours
 * Hurling Team of the Millennium: Right corner-back
 * Hurling Team of the Century: Left corner-back
 * Munster Hurling Team of the Millennium: Right corner-back
 * Tipperary Hurling Team of the Century: Left corner-back
 * The 125 greatest stars of the GAA: No. 13
 * Texaco Hall of Fame Award: 1992
 * Texaco Hurler of the Year: 1964
 * Cú Chulainn Awards (2): 1963, 1964
 * GAA Hall of Fame Inductee: 2013

title: John Doyle (Tipperary hurler)


text:
Michael Roberts

Michael Roberts may refer to:

 * Michael Roberts (college principal) (died 1679), principal of Jesus College, Oxford, 1648–1657
 * Michael Roberts (mathematician) (1817–1882), Irish mathematician
 * Michael Roberts (writer) (1902–1948), British poet, writer, critic and broadcaster
 * Michael Roberts (historian) (1908–1996), British historian
 * Michael Roberts (politician) (1927–1983), British Conservative Party politician, Cardiff MP 1970–1983
 * R. Michael Roberts (born 1940), American biologist
 * Michael Roberts (priest) (born 1943), British Church of England priest and academic
 * Michael D. Roberts (born 1947), American actor
 * Michael Roberts (fashion journalist) (1947–2023), British journalist
 * Michael Roberts (jockey) (born 1954), South African jockey
 * Michael Roberts (footballer) (born 1959), Australian rules footballer and TV journalist
 * Michael Symmons Roberts (born 1963), British writer
 * Michael W. Roberts, American defense acquisition official
 * Michael Roberts (tennis), American tennis player
 * Mick Roberts (born 1979), rugby league player for the Brisbane Broncos
 * Michael Roberts (cricketer) (born 1989), English cricketer
 * Michael Roberts (American football) (born 1994), American football player
 * Michael Roberts, a character in Small Island

title: Michael Roberts


text:
Talk:Limited availability

This page is discussing a historical feature, although it can still be effectively true of concentrators. I think some of this information is valuable. However, it needs to be rewritten "so your grandma could understand it" (assuming that she's not a teleco engineer). As it stands it is not going to be very usable, please consider rewriting it a bit.

A more clear diagram treating it all as a subscriber switch with a concentrator followed by two layers of switching matrix and showing the calls connected all the way through the matrix would help. You could then show a call being blocked even though capacity exists elsewhere in the exchange. Mozzerati 16:24, 2005 Apr 9 (UTC)

Figure 1
This article references Figure 1, but no figure is present. -KI4IHC - too lazy to login

I agree, I am, in addition to being somebody's grandad, educated to degree level and this was completely over my head.

Theoldman66 20:47, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Grading Scheme?
Why did "Grading Scheme" redirect here?

Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 02:20, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

 * The present article is presented from a crosspoint switch point of view, which is appropriate to the late 20th century especially in North America. The term "grading" was more used in selector switch bank working, as briefly alluded to in Telephone Tribute Alas, I haven't the patience to work up an introductory description of a theory that I, as a crossbar mechanic, studied a little but didn't actually use. Jim.henderson (talk) 23:19, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Limited availability