text:
Talk:Cokie Roberts

Initial comments
In broadcasts on NPR (and perhaps other places as well) Cokie Roberts often starts her sentences with an unpleasant "Look,", as if she were scolding her unobservant listeners. This makes it difficult for me to listen to her, regardless of whether or not I'm open to her opinions. Anyone else notice this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.32.58.204 (talk) 12:47, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

 * This is not a chat page ... take your opinions elsewhere. -- Jibal (talk) 21:47, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

is she still married today and what was so great about her?

Is that really her full name? That's ridiculous! --Fastfission 13:47, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * It's true--that's her full name. She gave a speech this morning at the Society of American Archivists annual meeting in D.C. and actually commented on Wikipedia's inaccuracy--said it was "Mary Martha" and not "Martha Mary," and then stated her full name (I followed up with her later at her book signing, and the name as it stands is indeed correct).  --Miss Dark 15:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

 * This is not a chat page ... take your opinions elsewhere. -- Jibal (talk) 21:47, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Party?
Is she a republican ? Anyone ?
 * She did receive a Bush appointment. She's a conservative commentator. So more than likely. It might take going through voter rolls to uncover how she's registered, though. 24.17.247.213 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Notwithstanding comments from others suggesting that she is a Republican shill among the likes of Rush Limbaugh, it hardly seems likely that she is Republican. She has worked for NPR and/or PBS almost all of her career--those are not organizations quite like Fox News or the EIB Network.  She is Catholic, and Catholics have traditionally been Democrats; and she is married to a Jewish man, and Jews have traditionally been Democrats.  And both of her parents served multiple terms in the House of Representatives as Democrats; and children, especially children of politicians, seem often to belong to the party of their parents.  (Her parents may have been "conservative" Dixiecrats, but she herself has been hanging around Washington too long to have been affected by the Republican tide that swept across the South in the 1980s.)  She may have received an appointment from President Bush, but so did a lot of Democrats, just as a lot of Republicans received appointments from President Obama.  If she said Obama should not be seen vacationing in Hawaii, perhaps it was because she feared that it would damage his reputation among the lot of ordinary working-class people who would think him too snooty vacationing in some exotic place, or add to his mystique as an outsider--he is, after all, literally African American and spent a lot of his life in Asia.  Perhaps also she was a Hilary Clinton supporter.  Hilary's husband, after all, had made her mother the United States ambassador to the Vatican.  Perhaps if her reporting seems conservative it is because she is actually an enormously talented journalist and does not betray her own political beliefs in her work.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.48.102.233 (talk) 19:33, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

 * The entry above is nothing but inane blather. I am reluctant to attack a contributor (although that may not apply in this case because the comment is unsigned) but even on a talk page, contributors should conform to minimal standards above the level of and aimless and completely baseless speculation. ---Dagme (talk) 04:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * It's a lot more substantive than your comment. But none of this belongs on this page. -- Jibal (talk) 21:50, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Photo
This photo is photoshopped extensively, and given her age must be from 40 years ago. You can tell by the eyes which "bug out" nowadays quite a bit.

The Photo of Ms. Roberts is years old. Wouldn't a more recent photo be appropriate? Like the photo posted on the PBS/Tavis Smiley website on April 30, 2008.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200804/20080430_roberts.html

DVet78 (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)DVet78

 * I agree. The picture needs to be updated. 24.17.247.213 (talk) 02:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 * of course it needs to be updated but this is the only photo available to upload to Wikipedia, those other photos fall under copyright issues, so unless you find a free photo, we are stuck with this one. mijotoba (talk) 15:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

The photo in question is clearly a professional portrait, and unless he/she has assigned the copyright, the photographer holds the copyright... so you might have a copy vio after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.88.229.196 (talk) 16:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Well that may be the case, but the picture was available on a website of the federal government and works of the government are in the public domain, and there was no additional mention of a pre-existing copyright or notice to make any other assumptions. mijotoba (talk) 00:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

According
to Tim Russert, & Charles Schumer, Chuck Schumer & Cokie Roberts had been on a 1967 "It%27s_Academic", according to the Sunday, the 05th, November, 2006 Meet the Press. I, hereby, request assistance in further verifying this.

Thank You.

hopiakuta ; [[ <nowiki> </nowiki> { [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] } ;]] 00:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Career
Shouldn't we mention her consistent extreme right-wing bias, which has been repeatedly, and factually documented on websites such as FAIR or Media Lens? To call Cokie Roberts a "journalist" is indeed a stretch of the imagination! She is in the same category as Sean Hannity, David Brooks, Ann Coulter, and Bill O'Reilly of Fox News: these people are not 'journalists' per se (in the traditional sense of the term, e.g. reporting news in a factual and objective manner--free of political bias); they are Republican shills, and/or public relations talk show personalities promoting conservative, corporate, Republican interests.

the "career" section is bit of a muddled mess. surely, some editor could put it in a more cohesive timeline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.173.13.31 (talk) 08:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Why oh why does where she vacation matter? And its racial makeup? inflammatory and undocumented.I cut it. The section on Obama is also biased. The actual words she used were not critical but I will let someone else work with that once the hysteria dies down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.129.33.82 (talk) 06:10, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

What "hysteria" are you talking about? Oh! Now I get it: by "hysteria" you mean the reams of well-documented criticisms of Cokie Roberts by numerous members of Congress, public officials, media organizations, and in general people who value TRUTH AND ACCURACY in journalism. For you, "hysteria" here means anybody who tries to set the record straight after the latest smear by Roberts of...for example Barack Obama, or for that matter of any public official to the left of Dick Cheney who Cokie and neo-con friends in the D.C. beltway decide to target in her next public "shill sesh". Or to put it another way: any sane and reasonable person who dares to refute the hysterical, mudslinging Cokie Roberts.

I deleted the following:

Cokie is hated by millions of Americans who painfully endure her bug-eyed face on those insipid political TV shows like ABC's "This Week". Cokie is hated for her extreme right-wing viewpoints which border on the insane and racist. For example, Cokie recently attacked Barack Obama on ABC's "This Week" for visiting his ailing grandmother in Hawaii:

Roberts: …going off this week I know his grandmother lives in Hawaii and I know Hawaii is a state, but it has the look of him going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place. He should be at Myrtle Beach and if he’s going to take a vacation at this time. I just think this is not the time to do that.

So, Cokie disapproves of Barack Obama going to visit his ailing grandmother, and she also shows apparent disregard for the state of Hawaii--portraying the 50th state as a "foreign, exotic place" that somehow shouldn't be visited by presidential candidates who happen to be from there. WTF!? Hawaii Senator Daniel Akaka subsequently rebuked the bitter old hag Roberts for her arrogance and the sheer stupidity of her statements. But making such outlandish, crude comments as this is nothing new for Roberts, who always has a sneering, negative comment at the ready for anybody who is not a war-rabid, Bush enabling neo-con extremist.

It's pretty sad that someone (over the age of 12) would deliberately sabotage a biography article just because of a different political view! comment added by Usl1984

Usl1984: you're sounding pretty sad yourself...for somebody supposedly "over the age of 12". Or, maybe you don't like it when so many people (including members of Congress) criticize Cokie Roberts for trying in her ugly underhanded way to sabotage Barack Obama's campaign with such a lame criticism like where he goes for a vacation! Roberts is a shill for the GOP and uses the same ugly tactics as Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, etc. But more to the point: right-wing neo-con extremists are always happy to sling mud on liberals, democrats, and minorities--but whenever they get a taste of their own medicine they cry bloody murder! Ah, the glaring hypocrisy of it all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.223.26 (talk) 17:27, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

If you knew anything about this country, you'd realize that most members of Congress have the brainpower of the keyboard I'm using to type this, and therefore have little room to criticize what anyone else says or does. Why do people hate free speech in this country so much nowadays?! Just because someone isn't a liberal, Communist, braindead shill of government takeovers and Obamaunism, they're somehow evil and inferior? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.202.255.7 (talk) 05:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Controversies
Someone had deleted the controversies section about Cokie Roberts earlier and they used the DUST rule to justify it, I did not think about it before, but he is right, those kind of news are better left for the future, especially the recent comments about Obama, since it hasn't even been a year. Please consider reviewing DUST to avoid adding trivial information which may very well be ephemeral and not important from an encyclopedia point of view. mijotoba (talk) 23:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And someone stuck it back in again. It's minor trivia in her career; it might have been important enough for the press to cover in the heat of her campaign, but otherwise, feh, who cares that a reporter says something clueless? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Agree, they are all DUST. What a trivial waste. Will delete according to WP:DUST. It's just chatter. The paragraph supposedly sourced from John Sherman's book, Latin America in Crisis, sounds like OR. Also, I tried to find the references in Sherman's book today while working on the page for Dianna Ortiz and could not do it - a Google search did not reveal Roberts, her brother Boggs, Jr., nor his lobbying firm in this book. Unless someone has a quote from Nightline, and a quote and page cite from Sherman making this connection, this is not adequately sourced to use.Parkwells (talk) 19:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The information is more than 15 years old, so I'm not sure it qualifies as WP:DUST. I did a quick Google search for "diane ortiz cokie roberts" and found plenty of information. I don't think that providing a quote automatically gives adequate source to something, but I'll find one. Below is the actual paragraph. Mvblair (talk) 14:34, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * While working in Guatemala, Sister Dianna Ortiz, a Catholic nun from New Mexico, was raped and tortured by members of a death squad until a US supervisor recognized that she was from the US.[12] Although there was no doubt of Ortiz's torture and ample evidence to corroborate her claims of an American supervisor, Roberts insisted that Ortiz was lying in a 1996 interview with Ortiz on the TV show "Nightline." Roberts' brother, Tom Boggs, working for the advertising firm of "Patton, Boggs, & Blow," was paid by the Guatemalan military to promote a more positive image of the death squads and the military dictatorship in Guatemala.[13] This incident caused a tremendous amount of scrutiny into other potential nepotistic relationships within the media.

I updated the page, per these suggestions and included references to Nightlin. It should be a little cleaner now. Not having a "controversies" section, I included it in the discussion about her general career. Mvblair (talk) 01:03, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It appears that someone just renamed the section and put it under "Criticism" That entire section reads more like someone's opinion than an actual non-biased article. Sources seem to all be opinion pieces.  Section needs to be reworked, or deleted entirely.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.183.47.148 (talk) 18:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Lee Roberts on the move in North Carolina Government
Would someone closer to this article please ad his position as Budget Director for NC. The thread to banking connections sits at mom's roundtable with George, perhaps.http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YnZTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=eocDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3173%2C3230147 --Wikipietime (talk) 16:57, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

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deletions
I see that you are brand new here. Please before deleting again, let's discuss. --valereee (talk) 20:40, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

'Criticism'
The 'Criticism' section seems gratuitously overlong and detailed. – Sca (talk) 14:47, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The paragraph about Guatemala is definitely giving undue weight to a specific incident from a long career, especially in a fairly brief article. The paragraph about her objectivity shouldn't present the counter-arguments to her positions, just state that she had them. –Jason A. Quest (talk) 15:33, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Should this section be deleted, or just modified to clean it up? Sometimes the end is only the beginning... (talk) 15:56, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I've trimmed back that section and merged it into the Career section. —Tourchiest talkedits 19:47, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I think that was the right call. It was a huge deal back in the day and almost ended her career. 2605:A000:1304:4761:A0:A89E:813D:8F3D (talk) 15:43, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:51, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Cokie Roberts-a.jpg

Electoral College
Cokie Roberts has stated publicly that she supports the Electoral College system for electing presidents and thus opposes electing presidents by popular vote. Can somebody find a reference for this and include it in the article? ---Dagme (talk) 15:04, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Date diagnosed with breast cancer.
In Internet version, the date DIAGNOSED with breast cancer is AFTER her date of DEATH. Date of diagnoses needs to be changed. 4Henrietta (talk) 17:07, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Interview citation
The article states: "During a subsequent interview, Roberts contested Ortiz's claim that an American was among her captors."

Anyone have a link/citation for this interview? Wikinetman (talk) 13:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cokie Roberts


text:
Fen line

The Fen Line is a railway line in the east of England that links Cambridge in the south to King's Lynn in the north. The line runs through Cambridgeshire and Norfolk and the name of the line refers to the Fens which cover parts of Cambridgeshire, Norfolk and Lincolnshire. It is 41 mi in length and has eight stations.

The line is part of the Network Rail Strategic Route 5 and comprises SRS 05.06 and part of 05.05. It is classified as a secondary line except between Cambridge and Ely where it is classified as a London and South East commuter line.

History
The line was completed in sections in the 1840s, and previously extended north to the seaside town of Hunstanton.

Great Northern
Great Northern operate through services to London King's Cross (via the Cambridge line). These services operate non-stop between London and Cambridge for most of the day, as part of the half-hourly "Cambridge Express" service. One train an hour is extended beyond Cambridge to serve all stations to King's Lynn, whilst the alternative services run to Ely.

These services are mostly operated by Class 387 electric multiple units. Before May 2017, Class 365s were the principal units.

Three Class 365 EMUs received names associated with the line:
 * The Fenman (365518) – previously a "named train" that used to operate on this line, consisting of locomotive-hauled InterCity (British Rail) trains;
 * Robert Stripe Passengers' Champion (365527) was named on 10 March 2006, after the 21st Anniversary of the Fen Line Users Association;
 * Nelson's County (365531) had a special livery applied to the outside which shows various scenes of West Norfolk however this was removed when Great Northern took over First Capital Connect.

Greater Anglia
Greater Anglia regularly runs services between Stansted Airport and Norwich on an hourly basis via the Breckland line, running non-stop between Ely and Cambridge North. Class 755 units are used for this service.

Until the timetable change in May 2023, Greater Anglia ran a few direct services between London Liverpool Street and King's Lynn or Ely (via the West Anglia Main Line). These services operated only during the morning and evening peaks. After the alterations, these services only run to and from Ely, and King's Lynn no longer has any direct services to London Liverpool Street.

CrossCountry
The section between Cambridge and Ely is also used non-stop by CrossCountry services from Stansted Airport (and onward to Birmingham New Street via Peterborough and Leicester). Class 170 units are used for this service.

Signalling
The line is double tracked except between Littleport and Downham Market and between Watlington and King's Lynn where it is bi-directionally signalled single track. In the Down direction, the entrance to the single line sections is protected additionally by SPAD indicators.

Signal boxes controlling the line are;
 * Cambridge power box
 * Littleport
 * Downham Market
 * Magdalen Road (Watlington)
 * King's Lynn

The signalling system is Track circuit block with multiple aspect colour light signals- with the exception of: In 2020, the Department of Transport announced funding to renew the signalling on the Fen Line to ETCS cab signalling.
 * one semaphore signal at King's Lynn which controls entry to the One Train In Section freight-only line from King's Lynn to Middleton Towers
 * two semaphore shunt signals at Downham Market station

Infrastructure
Traction current for electric trains is provided by 25 kV AC OHLE controlled by Romford Electrical Control Room. There are Neutral Sections at Shepreth Branch junction, Milton Fen and just north of Littleport bypass. The line has a loading gauge of W8 except for the section connecting the Ipswich–Ely line to the Ely–Peterborough line, which is W10.

Passenger volume
These are the statistics of the numbers of passengers on the line from the year beginning April 2002 to the year beginning April 2017. Comparing each station between the first and last years (14 years total), King's Lynn has increased by 68%, Watlington by 133%, Downham Market by 111%, Littleport by 157%, Ely by 113%, Waterbeach by 149% and Cambridge by 109%. Cambridge North was not open at the time of the publication of these figures.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Fen line


text:
Burlington Flats, New York

Burlington Flats is a hamlet (and census-designated place) in the Town of Burlington in Otsego County, New York, United States. It is located at coordinates 42.7452°N, -75.183°W.

Notable person

 * Baseball Hall of Famer William Hulbert was born in Burlington Flats.

title: Burlington Flats, New York


text:
Talk:Karl Plagge

Untitled
Is it certain that he was a Nazi Party member? I know that the BBC article calls him a Nazi, but I took that as a generic usage. My understanding is that regular German military (as opposed to the SS) weren't supposed to be party members. There were exceptions, but this guy doesn't seem like he would be one. -- Randy 14:41, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The author of the book, The Search For Major Plagge was on C-SPAN over the weekend. He said Major Plagge did indeed join the Nazi Party in (I think) 1931.  He joined because of the Nazis' economic message, but was disillusioned long before the war.

May 24 additions
Thanks for today’s additions. I had a little trouble working in the details about the extermination of Lithuania’s Jews, though, because it seemed to be a veer off topic—this article is about Plagge, so focusing too much on peripheral details, however important from other perspectives, is slightly confusing. I eventually settled on breaking that material off into a second paragraph, since it does supply context for the body text.

Schwartzberg: Plagge's significance (historically) is vis-a-vis the extermination of jews in Vilnius.

There is one parenthetic whose significance I don’t understand, and I’ve marked it with the “vague” tag. If you could elucidate what you intend to convey with it, I will try to work that content into the text in an unintrusive manner.

Schwartzberg: will do latter also in reference to your comments below.

The above aside, there is still the issue of attribution. Could you please provide page—line sources for the newly added material? That would greatly enhance the credibility of the article. Thanks, and best regards, Jim_Lockhart 02:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

'''To 87.60.219.70/Mr. Schwartzberg:''' Thanks for adding to your previous material. I think I now understand what you meant about Jews surviving as a proportion of population, but I’m still not 100% sure. With all due respect, please read my changes carefully before making any alterations—I believe they reflect the intent of the content you added:
 * Where I have changed extermination to any other word, I have done so because it was inappropriate as used, not because it was loaded.

Schwartzberg: they were exterminated. Killed is too vague.

 * Please check the number of Plagge Jews that the SS managed to murder in the end—over 1,000 seems too high given the other numbers mentioned (1,200 in total, death rate of 80% = 960 killed), so either the “over 1,000” number or the other numbers are off.

Schwartzberg: Excellent critique, will do.

 * Please cite sources for your new material, especially dates and numbers.

Schwartzberg: OK - i think this is mainly Plagges letters (especially the one where he uses Camus), and his denazification file which is online, and his military correspondance which is also available online. Generally: my contribution is based only on the evidence.

Thanks and best regards, Jim_Lockhart 08:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * One of the web sites linked to in the references section brought up a “no number under that product” message, which is why I deleted the link.
 * References are generally presented in bulleted lists in Wikipedia, not enumerated lists. Please don’t revert the bullets.

Karl Plagge-Cause of Death
I have not been able to confirm the cause of Karl Plagge's death. In my correspondance with Hans Madsen (Plagge's stepson) he refers to Plagge complaining of headaches in his diary during the final year of his life: "Anke has kept her and Karl’s notebooks from 1944 on and most of their correspondence. In Karl’s I see very often remarks concerning “headache” and Anke told me that a lot of tablets were found in his room at the Hessenwerke after his death. Karl died in his bed- Anke tried to cool his front with a wet washrag and he whispered “Anke, Lass!” and he was gone."

I had interpreted this to mean that perhaps he had a brain tumor, but that is quite speculative. Unless one can find a death certificate, I do not know of any good source for this information.

Best Regards, Michaeldg (talk) 21:43, 19 April 2008 (UTC)Michael Good

 * Fair enough. As long as there is no definite proof as to the cause of death, better keep it neutral. Cheers. Ekki01 (talk) 08:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The article on Plagge at http://www.raoulwallenberg.net lists his cause of death as a brain tumor.

However, I would not necessarily use this because that same article lists the month of his death as July while here a specific date is given in June.

Lastly, in my trying to justify my correction of Major Plagge's birth-date, I have come across the fact that there is a 238 page book on his life called, "The Search for Major Plagge: The Nazi Who Saved Jews, Expanded Edition."

It's published by Fordham University Press and in the 13 reviews on "Amazon" it seems to be highly regarded.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Major-Plagge-Saved-Expanded/dp/0823224406

I've obviously not read this book but it would seem to clear up some of the points raised here in the "talk" page. Satchmo Sings (talk) 03:01, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Removed Military Service box
While it is true that Karl Plagge served in both the First and Second World Wars under the German flag, he was in fact a pacifist and profoundly troubled by the militaristic actions of his nation from 1939-45. He was horrified when he realized in 1938 that Hitler intended to start a second, expansionistic world war and certainly did not volunteer for service in the Wehrmacht. He was against the war, served unwillingly and did what he could to undermine the criminal enterprises that his nation had undertaken. He would be horrified to be portrayed as a proud military veteran of the Nazi regime (I am referring specifically to the section of the box that states "allegiance" and shows the swastika flag and is labeled "Nazi Germany". Thus, I have removed the military service box, which does tend to portray him in such a light.

Here are some quotes from Plagge's testimony at his denazification trial in 1947 which I believe supports my view:

"I did not volunteer for this war and did not want to prolong the conflict by spurring my labor to produce the needed resources with even greater efficiency...I think the reason for the closing of the motor vehicle repair park had to do with the fact that my regiment commander accused me of being too soft in the treatment of my workers."

"The war and the sad development of the national-socialist system destroyed an ideal in myself and even before the end of this terrible war I was deeply embittered towards all the people who deceived and tricked me, those who were responsible for the whole misery and hardship of the war. That was the reason why, in 1945, I tried to prevent all bloodshed and destruction and led my whole division into American captivity."
 * I am baffled as to your reasons for removing his military service box. He either was or wasn't a member of the German military in WW1 and WW2. (He was.) Whether he "liked" it our not, is not relevant or material. --Petzl (talk) 02:34, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Karl Plagge's Birthdate
In the opening of this article, Karl Plagge's birthdate is listed as "orange 21, 1918."

(Can someone PUH-LEEZE explain to me what does lower case "orange" mean in regards to a birth-date?)

In the Wikipedia article on "July 10" Plagge's birdate is listed as July 10, 1897.

Also, the article makes reference to his being a World War One veteran; this date of birth would make him less than a month old at the time of the Armistice on November 11th.

Since the article on him claims him to be a WWI vet, and the picture of him in a uniform of The Third Reich appears to be that of a middle-aged man and not someone in his 20s, I would therefore assume, coupled with the lower case "orange" for the listed birth-month, that the birth-date on the Wikipedia "July 10" page would be the correct one.

That said, I've found his birth YEAR but not the date, on a page at "Holocaust Survivors and Remembrance Network." http://isurvived.org/Rightheous_Folder/Plagge_Karl_MajGerman.html.

I had also found his exact birth-date on another page, however that was merely a re-hash of this article, or vice-versa so I felt the need to go elsewhere.

Also, I need the help of other "Wikipedians" in that I do need your help in learning how to contact other members; I'm but a middle-aged person and regarding so much of this "digital stuff" I need your help! Satchmo Sings (talk) 02:40, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

 * You did the right thing. People usually don't have their birthdays change so it seemed like an unsourced revision. Looking into the history more, the last edit before yours was anonymous and it was inaccurate and that user has been warned.  Thank you and sorry for the hassle. - Stillwaterising (talk) 03:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Karl Plagge


text:
Talk:Peter Kuper

Untitled
This page used to redirect to Peter Kuber, who is a completely different artist. Awahlbom 14:44, 2005 Apr 12 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 01:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Peter Kuper


text:
Talk:And yet it moves

Smack Down
Apologies for the attempted vandalism (and kudos to the bot that caught it). The perpetrator has beem smacked and won't be attempting this again any time soon.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.55.231 (talk) 22:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't the translation be "and yet it moves"?

Removed the following sentence:
 * (N.B. deviance from geocentric views of the universe have never been condemned as heresy or even error. The heresies refered to in Galileo's circumstances were theological opinions that he asserted, in his mind, as a result of his scientific beliefs... for example, statements regarding an individual's authority to interpret scripture over the church, the nature of the Eucharist, etc.)

The actual accusation and condemnation pronounced by the Inquisition (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#Church_controversy; also http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1630galileo.html) say he was "vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world..."

If that's not condemning it as an error, just exactly what is?

And the available text does not mention the Eucharist in any way whatever.

The passage could be restored, with suitable emendation, if someone were to provide some basis for it in historical documents. If you wish to put something in the article to the effect that some authors claim that other things were the real reason, in contradiction to the direct evidence, then that would not necessarily be POV; though it would be more relevant in another article, like Galileo or Inquisition or Heresy or Heliocentrism. Dandrake 01:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Giordano Bruno
I believe there is another legend that the line “E pur si muove!” was spoken by Giordano Bruno (rather than, or at least before, Galileo), perhaps even as he was burned. This is probably false, but maybe worth mentioning in the article (if only to describe it as a legend). Could someone with more knowledge than me shed some light on this? --Gro-Tsen 03:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Can some sort of pronunciation guide be added for those of us who don't know Italian? —Etaoin (talk) 16:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Painting
anyone know which painting is referred to in the article? jdevries 00:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

ditto 24.92.220.10 (talk) 10:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Usage
In popular culture, "e pur si muove" refers to someone stubbornly denying a fact that is blatantly obvious and nearly impossible to refute.

The phrasing of this sentence suggests it is used by the denier in defence of their position, which is entirely the opposite of how it would be used. — 217.46.147.13 (talk) 16:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Deleting. 76.24.12.246 (talk) 22:37, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

"Eppur si muove" or "E pur si muove"?
The article is titled "E pur" and yet within it, the spelling "Eppur" is more commonly used. Which is correct? Is there a difference? Perhaps it results from changes to the Italian language over the years? There is no acknowledgement or explanation of this inconsistency in the article. 207.58.192.150 (talk) 14:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * E pur is an apocopic form of e pure. Eppure is etymologically derived from e + pure (and eppur is its acopocic form). In Italian, when a vowel precedes a word beginning with a consonant, they may sometimes be conjoined into one word (such as 'e' + 'p...' or 't...'), but the consonant must be doubled when this occurs. Thus 'e' + 'pure -> 'e' + 'p' + 'pure -> eppure.  Mind  matrix  18:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Can someone add the OLD SCHOOL pronunciation... you know- like what was taught in grade school during the 1980's. Life is way too short to learn a new system every 10 years! Better yet, could an Italian speaker upload an audio file... That would be great! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.68.35.5 (talk) 04:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a tip, friend: use the pronunciation key . 71.136.241.147 (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * EDIT: And I'd count a new system only appearing every "10 years" (who's standard?) as a blessing. (I acknowledge I'm replying to an old post, but it needs to be said, IMO.) 71.136.241.147 (talk) 04:22, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

And yet, life evolves!
Richard Lenski wrote "And yet, life evolves!" as a reference to this, in his famous dialog with ConservaPedia (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Lenski_dialog)

Is that worth adding to the main article? The Three Laws of Robotics wikipedia entry has a seperate page for references to variants, but I'm not sure just one variant is worth it?DouglasReay (talk) 06:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Protected?
Why is this page protected? Anyhow, I wanted to delete this sentence:

"In 1992, Pope John Paul II called the Church's position regarding Galileo a "tragic mutual incomprehension".[3]"

because it's unrelated either to the paragraph above it or to the topic of the article. Can an administrator please make this change? Thanks. --99.237.234.245 (talk) 06:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think the page is protected or semiprotected. You should be able to edit. On a protected page, you can use Edit semi-protected or perhaps Edit protected to request attention. I am rather inclined to agree that the sentence is superfluous here, but I don't feel like taking responsibility for deleting it at the moment. If you see "edit" at the top, it should work. Johnuniq (talk) 07:52, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Eppur si muove
I have restored the correct version of this very famous phrase.

How it is correctly spelled in modern Italian is not the point.

If one checks the log here, you find this:

The phrase was changed to modern Italian spelling at the Catalan, French and Italian Wikipedias in Feb. 2010.
 * 14:33, 7 February 2010 VolkovBot (talk | contribs) m (4,221 bytes) (robot Modifying: ca:E pur si muove!, fr:E pur si muove!, it:E pur si muove!)

Is there any discussion in any of those languages prior to this change being made?

No.

Varlaam (talk) 06:40, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

SOTTO VOCE!! Varlaam (talk) 15:55, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As a side note, the phrase does not traditionally end with an exclamation mark, since it is muttered sotto voce. Sotto voce!

 * Eppur si muove
 * The New Encyclopædia Britannica 2007, Macropædia, Vol. 19, "Galileo", p. 640.
 * There is no mention of "E pur", or any other fanciful variation.
 * Varlaam (talk) 06:13, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Move to "And yet it moves"
WP:UE says, "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." So only if you see the phrase used in the sources without translation can you justify using it untranslated in a title. Amazon's top-selling Galileo biography is by John Heilbron, who translates. Doak's Galileo: Astronomer and Physicist doesn't even bother to give Latin. Kauffner (talk) 04:32, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

What moves?
What was Galileo referring to? I would gather "it" refers to the Earth. But what physical example or experiment is does it reference? Did he offer some proof, showing observation and calculation, which was ignored and then he was summarily shutdown... and then he muttered this phrase? Or, was it just a belligerent rambling? 76.126.137.85 (talk) 03:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

 * He did indeed have observations to support his theory; Galileo affair gives the details. It's linked as 'see also', but I'm inclined to agree that it would be helpful to have some mention of it in the article. I guess the reasoning was that this page is about the phrase and not Galileo's theories, but I think a brief mention would be good background. And someone will delete it if they don't like it, so be bold! CarrieVS (talk) 08:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Also, it seems a bit strange to have the citation needed tag next to the phrase, "the Earth does, in fact, move around the sun, and not vice versa." It's almost a wikipedia punchline at that point. 50.136.137.39 (talk) 21:38, 20 January 2015 (UTC)kliksf

Galileo asserted that the earth revolves around a fixed sun.

Letter to Cristina di Lorena, Grand Duchess of Tuscany (the mother of his patron Cosmo), 1615. Quoted in Sedley Taylor, 'Galileo and Papal Infallibility' (Dec 1873), in Macmillan's Magazine: November 1873 to April 1874 (1874) Vol 29, 93. "In my studies of astronomy and philosophy I hold this opinion about the universe, that the Sun remains fixed in the centre of the circle of heavenly bodies, without changing its place; and the Earth, turning upon itself, moves round the Sun. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:181:C380:B67:C1D9:C80E:4D29:AA83 (talk) 13:30, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I have restored the separate pronunciations for "Eppur si muove" and "E pur si muove". The claim that there's no difference between them is simply wrong. In Italian, the difference between the pronunciation of a doubled consonant and a single occurrence of the same one is very important. If you ask a native Italian "Quanti anni hai?" ("How old are you?") with the same pronunciation as you would use for "Quanti ani hai?" ("How many anuses do you have?"), he is likely to be highly amused (although he will probably still understand what you meant). David Wilson (talk · cont) 00:45, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Your example with anni - ani ist correct, of course, but as far as the pronunciation of E pur si muove is concerned, it is a case of raddoppiamento fonosintattico, which automatically occurs in Italian if certain monosyllables or oxytones ending in a vowel are pronounced in one breath unit with a following word beginning with a consonant; and among the monosyllabic words triggering raddoppiamento happens to be the conjunction e (and), as is also said in the article I under the link above. So, the difference between Eppur si muove and E pur si muove, at least in the Florentine pronunciation of Italian, is really only orthographic. --130.133.155.70 (talk) 18:31, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Addendum: You might also here look up the word eppure; there they give an example with orthographic e pur and phonetic transcription with raddoppiamento (the systen of transcription used there is different from IPA, but it doesn't matter as far as only the phenomenon of raddoppiamento is concerned). -- 130.133.155.70 (talk) 18:42, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Use as Tagline in episode of the X-Files ("Terma," s4e9)
Would this usage go under the current "references" heading? PDevido (talk) 18:34, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The way the section is being used in this article is as sources for citations. What you're thinking of is a "cultural references" or "in popular culture" section. As for whether the reference would be appropriate, sorry I don't think it's significant enough. Name dropping isn't enough, but rather examples that show significant impact, especially when noted in third party sources are preferred. See "In popular culture" content. Note that Terma (The X-Files) does link here. Hope that helps. Opencooper (talk) 18:43, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

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Implication
Baretti's phrase, "set at liberty" implies that Galileo was in a formal prison. This is not true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.135.137.131 (talk) 14:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Baretti mentions six years. I don't know where he got the number six from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.135.137.131 (talk) 14:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Baretti also says that Galileo was tortured, without proof. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.135.137.131 (talk) 15:01, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Link is broken
This link is broken which is used for reference number 3. What can be done in this case? I would request experienced editors to please comment. Thank you. -- Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Mario Livio's Blog Post on Provenance of E Pur Si Muove Painting.
Mario Livio has written a blog post on tracing the provenance of the painting discussed in para 3 of the Overview. The article is [here]. He sent photos of the painting to 4 art experts, and they were unanimous in it not being a Murillo. One said it was not Spanish, and another said it was 19th century. He discovered that a painting titled Galileo in Prison had been sold at auction in 2007 by direct descendants of van Belle., The auction house had determined the painting was 19th century. The auction stated that there were no dates on the painting. Does this justify rewriting para 3 of the Overview?

 * Yes I believe so, and have done so. I also rearranged the paragraph a little to set the events in chronological order. CodeTalker (talk) 18:34, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

 * There were other reasons to doubt the authenticity of the painting beyond those mentioned in Livio article. [scientus.org] discusses these.   Going forward, I think a decision needs to be made whether Eppur Si Muove is probably true with some doubters or whether it is probably a myth.  If it is decided that it is probably a myth, the article would need to be reworked to present it as such.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.90.9 (talk) 17:05, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

 * Radio-carbon dating might be used, if we are allowed to see the painting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a00:23c4:4e9f:d101:71f6:905:2002:1410 (talk • contribs) 12:33, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know if radio-carbon dating is necessary. The painting was supposed to have been done by Murillo, one of the great portrait artists of the 17th century. The actual portrait was mediocre at best and amateur at worst. It was not done by Murillo. 216.154.6.173 (talk) 19:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:And yet it moves


text:
Four Peaks Brewery

Four Peaks Brewing Co. is an Arizona brewery that was founded by Andy Ingram, Jim Scussel, and Randy Schultz in 1995 and opened to the public on December 11, 1996. The company is headquartered in the historic former Borden Co. Creamery and Ice Factory on 8th Street in Tempe, Arizona, about 1/2 mi east of the campus of Arizona State University.

On December 18, 2015, AB InBev announced an agreement to acquire Four Peaks Brewing Co.

Beers
Four Peaks Brewing Co.'s flagship beer is Kilt Lifter, a Scottish-style ale with a 6.0% ABV. Other notable beers are Hop Knot West Coast IPA, AZ hAZy New England–style IPA and WOW Wheat. Four Peaks also brews Pumpkin Porter, the most popular seasonal beer in the state of Arizona.

8th Street Pub
The 8th Street Pub is Four Peaks Brewing Co.'s primary location. Located at 1340 E. 8th Street in Tempe, it is housed inside the historic former Borden Milk Co. Creamery and Ice Factory originally constructed in 1892. The building was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1984. It is rumored the former creamery building is haunted.

Four Peaks occupies nearly the entire building, though one portion on the far west side of the building is controlled by Infusion Tea & Coffee.

In 2016, Four Peaks expanded into a former creamery office built on-site in 1915. The office also served as the former location of Uranus Recording Studio, which was owned and operated by Gin Blossoms lead singer Robin Wilson (musician) from 1994 to 2015.

Other locations
The company opened a second restaurant location in Scottsdale, Arizona, in 2004. That location closed permanently in 2020.

An additional brewing-only site was opened in 2012 on Wilson Street in Tempe as production needs increased. The production facility also houses a small private event space.

In 2013, a Four Peaks Brewing Co. location opened inside Terminal 4 at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

Awards
2018 World Beer Cup

 * Bronze Medal (Other International-Style Lager) – Golden Lager

2016 World Beer Cup
 * Gold Medal (Scottish-Style Ale) – Kilt Lifter Scottish-Style Ale

2014 World Beer Cup

 * Bronze Medal (Scottish-Style Ale) – Kilt Lifter Scottish-Style Ale

2013 Great American Beer Festival

 * Silver Medal (American-Style Strong Pale Ale) – Hop Knot West Coast IPA
 * Silver Medal (Scottish-Style Ale) – Kilt Lifter Scottish-Style Ale

2012 World Beer Cup

 * Gold Medal (American-Style Strong Pale Ale) – Hop Knot West Coast IPA
 * Gold Medal (German-Style Kolsch/Koln-Style Kolsch) – Sunbru
 * Bronze Medal (Ordinary or Special Bitter) – 8th Street Ale

2008 World Beer Cup

 * Silver Medal (Aged Beer [Ale or Lager]) – Hopsquatch '06
 * Silver Medal (Barley wine–Style Ale) – Hopsquatch '07
 * Silver Medal (Smoke-Flavor Beer) – Smoked Imperial Porter

2006 World Beer Cup

 * Gold Medal (Barley wine–Style Ale) – Hopsquatch
 * Bronze Medal (American-Style Strong Pale Ale) – Hop Knot West Coast IPA

2004 World Beer Cup

 * Bronze Medal (Imperial or Double Red Ale) – Hopsquatch

2002 World Beer Cup

 * Bronze Medal (Ordinary Bitter) – Street Ale

title: Four Peaks Brewery


text:
Rudolf Tarnow

Rudolf Tarnow (25 February 1867 in Parchim, Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin - 19 May 1933 in Schwerin) was a Low German writer.

Rudolf Tarnow was born on 25 February 1867 in the city of Parchim, the oldest son of a shoemaker, Heinrich Tarnow, and his wife, Dorothea (née Pingel). He attended school from 1873 until 1881, claiming to be a very good student, although he often focused more on social life than schoolwork, which he saved for home.

After success in school, he began a commercial apprenticeship in a textile factory in his home town, which he completed successfully in 1885. In 1896, he married Erna Bruns. From this relationship came three children, two sons, Walter and Rudolf, and a daughter, Elisabeth. After his service in the military, where he spent some years in the personal military company of the grand duke of Mecklenburg, he applied successfully to be the superintendent of the insane asylum in Schwerin.

He began to publish his work, which was written in Low German, around 1910, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the birth of fellow Low German author Fritz Reuter. On 7 October 1910 his poem "Ein Randewuh im Rathaus zu Stavenhagen" (English: A Rendezvous at the City Hall of Stavenhagen), was published as a special edition. After that, he published many poems, and also regularly published essays. His essays were taken from real-life experiences, focusing on, and making fun of, the weaknesses of his fellow man.

One of his best known works is "Köster Klickermann," where he combines his childhood memories of both school and church. Some of his work was lighter in tone, however. His love of children lead him to write the children's books and collections of children's poems as well. Tarnow died on 19 May 1933 in Schwerin, after a heart-related illness. Even today, many streets and schools in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern are named after Tarnow. A complete folio of Tarnow's works was found in storage in the city of Rostock in 1987.

title: Rudolf Tarnow


text:
Talk:Chronologie

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Riley One-Point-Five

The Riley One-Point-Five and similar Wolseley 1500 are cars produced by Riley and Wolseley respectively from 1957 until 1965. They utilised the Morris Minor floorpan, suspension and steering but were fitted with the larger 1489 cc B-Series engine and MG Magnette gearbox.

Series 1
The two models were differentiated by nearly 20 hp (15 kW), the Riley having twin SU carburettors giving it the more power at 68 hp (50 kW). The Wolseley was released in April 1957 and the Riley was launched in November, directly after the 1957 London Motor Show.

Series 2
The Series II was released in May 1960. The most notable external difference was the hidden boot and bonnet hinges. Interior storage was improved with the fitting of a full width parcel shelf directly beneath the fascia.

Series 3
The Series III was introduced in October 1961, featuring revisions to the grille and front and rear lights.

In October 1962 the cars received the more robust crank, bearing and other details of the larger 1,622 cc unit now being fitted in the Austin Cambridge and its "Farina" styled clones. Unlike the Farina models, however, the Wolseley 1500 and Riley One-Point-Five retained the 1,489cc engine size with which they had been launched back in 1957.

Production volumes
Production ended in 1965 with 19,568 Rileys and 103,394 Wolseleys made.

Engines

 * 1.2 L (1200 cc) B-Series I4, Irish Market only (Wolseley)
 * 1.5 L (1489 cc) B-Series I4, 50 bhp (37 kW) (Wolseley) & 68 bhp (51 kW) (Riley

Differences
The One-Point-Five and its 1500 sibling had a number of differences, with the Wolseley generally being the less well-equipped model:

 * Engine - The Riley benefited from twin 1½ inch SU H4 carburettors while the Wolseley was fitted with a single 1¼ inch SU carburettor. The cylinder head on the Riley was also slightly sportier to help with the power increase.
 * Exterior - The front panel and grille looks similar on both cars, but is different. The stainless trim along the side of the cars is also different.
 * Interior - Both cars received wooden dashboards. While the Riley had a full complement of gauges (speedometer, tachometer, and temp/oil/fuel) placed directly in front of the driver, the Wolseley made do with only the speedometer and temp/oil/fuel gauges, which were placed in the centre of the dashboard. The Riley was fitted with leather seats, while the Wolseley was often fitted with lower quality Rexine in its Fleet model.
 * Brakes - The Riley was equipped with a larger Girling braking system, while the Wolseley received a smaller Lockheed system. The Girling brakes on the Riley One-Point-Five were often sought out by Morris Minor owners looking for a way to upgrade their brakes.

Performance
A Wolseley 1500 was tested by the British magazine The Motor in 1957. It was found to have a top speed of 76.7 mph and could accelerate from 0-60 mph in 24.8 seconds. A fuel consumption of 36.6 mpgimp was recorded. The test car cost £758 including taxes of £253.

A Riley One-Point-Five was tested by the British magazine The Motor in 1961. It was found to have a top speed of 82.4 mph and could accelerate from 0-60 mph in 18.9 seconds. A fuel consumption of 29.8 mpgimp was recorded. The test car cost £815 including taxes of £240.

In its day, the Riley was successfully raced and rallied and can still be seen today in historical sporting events.

Australian production
BMC Australia produced the Wolseley 1500 in Australia from 1958. It was built alongside BMC Australia's own versions of this design, the Morris Major and Austin Lancer. The Major and Lancer were less luxurious and had many notable differences from the Wolseley. The 1500 was discontinued in 1959 and substantially revised "Series 2" models of the Major and Lancer were released in the same year. In 1962 the Lancer and Major were replaced by the Morris Major Elite which was powered by a 1622 cc engine.

North American exports
1959 Series I Riley One-Point-Fives were exported to North America by BMC in an attempt to capitalize on the growing imported car market. While not a sales success, a number of the cars remain on the road in the hands of collectors. As was a common practice in many jurisdictions, some cars were titled as 1960 model year cars because that was the year of their initial registration.

Running changes
The badging for the One-Point-Five was changed early on in Series I production, after car number 4861 and before 6353. The earlier cars have smaller badges on the front wings and the boot lid. The later cars use simpler, larger badges with a different design and typeface.

title: Riley One-Point-Five


text:
South Seas Detachment

The South Seas Detachment (南海支隊) of the Imperial Japanese Army was a brigade-size force formed in 1941 to be the army unit used in the Japanese seizure of the South Pacific island groups of Wake, Guam and the Gilberts. As part of the South Seas Force, it fell under Imperial Japanese Navy command and control. It was drawn from the 55th Division and was commanded by Major General Tomitarō Horii. It consisted of the following units: The detachment was to be used to seize Guam but was diverted to Wake after the initial unsuccessful attempt by the navy to seize the atoll, where it suffered some casualties. It later rejoined the 55th Division for the New Guinea Campaign.
 * 144th Infantry Regiment with 2700 men
 * 1st Battalion of the 55th Mountain Artillery Regiment with 750 men and 12 75mm mountain guns
 * 3rd Squadron 55th Cavalry Regiment
 * 1st Company 47th Anti-aircraft Artillery Battalion.
 * Infantry Gun Company of the 144th Infantry Regiment
 * plus Engineer, Communications, Transport and 3 Medical detachments.

Objectives of the South Seas Detachment
On May 4, 1942, troopships bearing the South Seas Detachment set sail southward from Rabaul for Port Moresby. Three days later, however, a naval engagement appeared to be brewing in the Coral Sea; whereupon the transports immediately veered back to the north, in order to avoid combat. The Battle of the Coral Sea caused no small loss to the Fourth Fleet. Plans to land the South Seas Detachment directly at Port Moresby from the sea had to be abandoned.

Imperial General Headquarters, on May 18, 1942, issued an order of battle for the Seventeenth Army, to be commanded by Lieutenant General Haruyoshi Hyakutake. An Army in name only, it was made up of several infantry regimental groups:

 * South Seas Detachment
 * Aoba Detachment
 * 35th Infantry Brigade (without the 114th Infantry Regiment)
 * 41st Infantry Regiment, etc.

The mission of the Seventeenth Army in Operation FS was the capture of strategic points on New Hebrides islands, New Caledonia, Fiji, and Samoa, (also Tuvalu, Tokelau, Tonga, others sources included at Fenix islands, (strategic U.S. Base in area) as well as the occupation of Port Moresby; all in co-operation with the Japanese Navy.

The objective of these operations was to take possession of strategic island points in order to intensify a cutoff in the contact between the United States and Australia, while squelching the Americans' and Australians' plans of counterattack from the same areas. Action was slated to begin about the beginning of July 1942, using the following forces:

 * Bulk of the Seventeenth Army (built around nine infantry battalions)
 * Second Fleet Air Arm built around First Air Fleet

Tactical Planning of the South Seas Detachment, relation with Midway Battle and Axis Powers plans
Based upon the operational plans, Army troops were steadily making operations for combat when, on July 11, IGHQ ordered the suspension of the projected actions against New Caledonia, Fiji, and Samoa, because the Combined Fleet had failed at Midway. The reasons for the suspension of operations may be further summarized:

 * 1) The Combined Fleet had been badly hurt in the Midway battle.
 * 2) From the experience at Midway, it had been learned how difficult it was to attack an island.
 * 3) The opinion was gaining ground that it would be more advantageous to step up operations in the western Indian Ocean, in conjunction with the actions of the German Army and to drive upon the Suez Canal.

With the release of the Seventeenth Army from the mission of attacking New Caledonia, Fiji, and Samoa, IGHQ assigned a new double objective:

 * the capture and security of Port Moresby, in co-operation with the Navy; and the opportune seizure of strategic points in eastern New Guinea.
 * Army components which were to participate in the new operations against Port Moresby included the bulk of the Seventeenth Army (about six infantry battalions, primarily); naval forces comprising the Eighth Fleet; and units built around the 25th Air Regiment. According to the plan, the main Army strength was expected to capture Port Moresby and the nearby airdromes, from the direction of Kokoda and Buna, as soon as possible.
 * The Navy would undertake to defeat the American and Australian air forces, master the U.S.-Australian Fleet, and furnish direct support for the land operations. An Army unit had been reconnoitering the road across the Owen Stanley Mountains, which extend north of Port Moresby.

Without awaiting the reconnaissance reports, the Seventeenth Army Commander hastily landed the South Seas Detachment near Buna in mid-July 1942, and then rushed them toward Port Moresby.

title: South Seas Detachment