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Talk:2005 papal conclave/Archive 2

Well done, wikipedia
I have to say a big congratulations to wikipedia for its work on this article. We can be justly proud of it. I don't think there is a better article on the forthcoming conclave anywhere on the net. Congratulations, people. Fear ÉIREANN 21:06, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed- in my mind, the most amazing part of this great article is the speed with which it was assembled. When you consider that JP II only died a littl over 48 hours ago alongside the detail of the article, it makes the accomplishment all the more praiseworthy.  Hence, a hearty mazel tov to everyone involved in the page's creation! --PatadyBag 22:20, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I disagree. I do believe that the article has improved in the last day or so, but there's many problems with it, mostly because it's about something that hasn't really happened yet.  First, there's some pieces of information that are off topic.  Explaining how the Conclave works, albeit briefly, would not be a theme for this article, but rather for the Papal election article (unless there was a focus on the changes introduced by John Paul II in 1996, in the Universi Dominici Gregis, which would make this Conclave somewhat different from the previous one, in 1978 – but that's only mentioned briefly in the first paragraph of said explanation).  Also, there's too much stuff on previous Conclaves, which would be more suited for the aforementioned general article on the Conclave or even for each Pope's individual article, but not for this one, which should focus on the events to take place in this particular Conclave  (I'm not saying that everything should go, since some of it may bear some relevance for this Conclave, but telling anecdotes of previous elections just to make a point about how old the next pontiff is likely to be seems exaggerated to me).  The main problem, however, is that most of the article is based on speculations about the Conclave to come.  That's a direct result of writing about a future event about which there's relatively little to be said yet that is encyclopedic.  Probably, this will result in the article having to be almost completely rewritten after the Conclave, which is, I believe, another indication of how premature it is now.  I do not see that we should have an article based on speculation, very little of which can actually be trustworthily verified.  Regards, Redux 03:06, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think there are some extremely unlikely names on the papabile list. Lustiger is 77 and a Zionist - his election would offend the Arab-Muslim world and would be quite contrary to Church policy which is generally pro-Arab. Husar is not even a Catholic strictly speaking and his election would hugely offend both Putin and the Orthodox, as Cardinals would know. Any case there is not going to be a second Slav pope in a row, which rules out Husar and Vlk. Nor is there likely ever to be a pope from an English speaking country, which makes Murphy-O'Connor most unlikely. Adam 04:35, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree on the merits. That said, I don't see as we can use our own judgement on this. In the list, we should just report the names that are mentioned, not judge for ourselves how plausible they are. john k 05:27, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Either we exercise some judgement or we list all 117 - or perhaps every priest in the world? As far as I can tell the field is narrowing to Tettamanzi and one or other of the South Americans, with Arinze as a dark horse (ho ho). Adam 05:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We should list people who have been listed as potential popes by major media organizations or vaticanologists. This is not terribly hard to do. john k 15:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There are some links articles about this at the bottom of the page. I Agree with John Kenney. We should just report what has already been speculated in the news papers. Husar is a catholic very strictly speaking and has been discussed in the articles. So has Lustiger even if he is a zionist, in fact there are many sites on the internet now also about the possibility of the first "Jewish" pope in 2 millenia. This is news.193.63.146.184 15:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A question about the sentance, "In theory any practicing Roman Catholic male, and certainly any member of its clergy, is eligible for election." If we want to get technical, I do not believe that even this requirement is required by Canon Law. Obviously, the election of a Protestant, Athiest, or Moony would be absurd, it is not legally impossible.

 * It might not be written as a single sentence in the Canon Law, but in Universi Dominici Gregis, it is written that someone becomes Pope on being elected and accept the position plus having episcopal character. So that's either a Bishop, or a non-Bishop that then get ordained. Since only a Roman Catholic male can be a Bishop, in turns only a Roman Catholic male can be Pope. -- KTC 21:54, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Article move
The Holy Father has died. This paged should be moved to Papal election, 2005 as it is now absolutely certain there will be one in a matter of weeks. (Alphaboi867 20:09, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * Oh, now we're discussing whether the page should be moved, when there's no more controversy on it. I see. :-) JRM 20:12, 2005 Apr 2 (UTC)
 * Isn't the convention to call it 2005 Papal election ? --Alterego 20:27, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * No. Political elections use the "X election, year" name scheme. No reason for papal elections to be different, I think. Kairos 21:21, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. (Alphaboi867 21:27, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC))

The format is 'location election, date' for an elementary reason, so that all elections in a specific location have the same name except for a different date at the end. So we have
 * Irish general election, 1992
 * Irish general election, 1997
 * Irish general election, 2002

Doing that makes lists easier. Putting date first would look well if the only thing you were going by is date. In reality we define elections by the format 'where what, when'.

I've made quite a few changes to the article.

I think the prediction that Ratzinger will win is way off the mark. Strong ideologues rarely win papal elections. In addition the College of Cardinals rarely elects someone very close to the previous pope, even when most of the College is chosen by the previous pope. Pope John Paul's high profile travelling and less than thorough attention to detail in the Vatican actually annoyed some local hierarchies, who felt he was overshadowing them and not doing the real job back at home in the Vatican. I expect you'll see a low key, seventy-something administrator elected for a couple of years, to give the Church a chance to calm down after the excitement of JPII. In the next conclave after this one, they'll probably go looking for a new JPII. After the populist ideologue Pius IX they chose the liberal administrator Leo XIII, then the populist ideologue Pius X, then the low key administrator Benedict XV, then the (somewhat) populist (and notoriously tempermental) Pius XI, then the intellectual administrator Pius XII, then the popular charismatic John XXIII, then the curialist administrator Paul VI, then the popular 'holy man' John Paul I, then the populist ideologue (but weak on administration) John Paul II. Logic suggests they will again be cautious and look for a 'safe pair of hands' again. Many churchmen privately were highly critical of what they believed was his tendency to delegate administration to rather self-important bureaucrats (Dominus Jesus was a classic example. Ratzinger wrote it. Apparently JPII never even read it before it was issued, as one cardinal, who went to JPII to complain about it, found out to his horror. JP was a towering intellectual, but he worked on his own ideas, rather than overseeing the actions of his underlings. That annoyed people, who for example felt that if he had been more of a bureaucrat he would have picked up the sex abuse scandals earlier, rather than leaving it to other people who proved less able and made a complete hash of it.

Ratzinger would be a good administrator, but probably too good and too bosy for most, which is why he has IMHO a snowball's chance in hell of being elected. He has also made too many local enemies in his forceful job in the Holy Office. Many would be glad to see the back of him from there. Sending him up to the papal apartments for life would make him more, not less, forceful.

I've added in facts and figures to the article as well.

From scanning media coverage I've reached diametrically different opinions to those in the original article here about the likelihood of a South American pope. Far from it being a 'slim' prospect it seems a very real one. An African one does however seem unlikely. If the Italians unite this time their candidate should be a 'European' candidate as they have the numbers for that. So it would seem as though the split could well be Europe versus South America. On the 'better the devil you know' principle, many American cardinals and conservative Africans would probably favour the European candidate over the South American one(s), on the basis that the Europeans would probably keep things steady (and they will probably want a short 'steady as you go' pontificate, whereas a South American one might be an unknown quantity, perhaps too radical, for conservatives. Also many Africans might want to ensure that when there is a non-European pope it is one of them - that they are the ones to break the mould rather than let South America get the credit in the history books for being the mould breakers. I'd guess the new pope will probably be a European, more than likely an Italian, and quite probably a curialist to get the administration back in order and not overshadowing the local hierarchies by a lot of travelling. That is my gut feeling and it is what I have heard from senior clerics. Fear ÉIREANN 06:52, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Your right about the location election, year formant, but Vatican City election, 2000 sounds bizare and would confuse people. The Pope is much more than Sovereign of Vatican City.  The current format is the most logical way to adapt Wiki's election formant conventions.  (Alphaboi867 07:53, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Maybe I'm too tired (I've been writing all night) but I think we are at cross purposes. I am not suggesting we move it at all. I'd regard Papal as adequate in the circumstances. Vatican City I'd totally oppose. But in terms of strict accuracy, now that I think of it, while Papal and 2005 are OK, maybe election isn't the right word. They are called Conclaves and people when talking about past one talk about the 1958 conclave rather than the 1958 election. Maybe the more correct name for this would be Papal conclave, 2005. That would be far more accurate than Papal election, 2005. After all what will happen is not akin to an election in how we understand them: no campaigns, no announced candidates, no revelation of counts, no manifestos, etc. It is not so much a secret ballot as a secret election. Conclave is much more accurate as a name. We could then create a back series of articles on past papal conclaves. Papal election, 2005 was OK as a title in the absence of an actual conclave, but we now have one so we should use it in the title. Fear ÉIREANN 08:08, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Support, for above reasons.--BaronLarf 20:43, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Support QuartierLatin1968 03:01, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree --cesarb 13:26, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. Election is clearly not the right word (it is a unique non-public ballot). I have moved and fixed any double redirects. --Oldak Quill 14:52, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with the move, but "election" is clearly an accurate term. A pope is elected, just like a Holy Roman Emperor or a King of Poland was elected.  john k 15:06, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Regardless, conclave is the correct and official term. I am quite ambiguous - I just feel conclave is of more use, it is the primus inter pares. --Oldak Quill 15:14, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I note that the term "papal conclave" is redundant. A conclave, by definition, relates to the pope. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with the term "papal election". -- Emsworth 19:00, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Conclave refers to the meeting itself, the locking of the cardinals inside the Sistine Chapel - this is not redundant. A Conclave is brought together with the purpose of balloting for a new pope. This article not only deals with the ballot but the entire process: the conclave. --Oldak Quill 19:12, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This does not change my point that "papal conclave" is redundant. There is no need, in this case, for the word "papal." -- Emsworth 01:07, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * The general article is, sensibly, Papal election. Papal election, 2005 was too simple? --Wetman 19:30, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur that "election" is probably better than "conclave" in the article title.Papal elections have been in the form of a conclave since the 13th century,but this is an instance of an event with a longer history than that.(The "Papal election" article was formerly at "conclave" but was moved for this reason).--Louis E./12.144.5.2 19:34, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Election in this context is completely wrong. The process is called a conclave. I've been watching television coverage on BBC, BBC News 24, Sky News, Channel 4 News, Sky News, ITV News, RTÉ News all day and all last night (literally all) and made a point of recording what references there were to the new selection process. The result was

 * Conclave/Papal Conclave - 41 references.
 * Papal election/election       - 4 references.

 * That did not include repeat references in repeated bulletins on the hour, but different reports. The 4 election references came from journalists: 2 from the same ITV journalist who said the pope had been elected in 1987, 1 from a Sky News reporter who called St John Lateran a "church in the Vatican". 1 came from a journalist who repeated the myth about the pope being tapped on the forehead with a silver hammer. (That ceremony was abolished many many decades ago.) All the experts on all the channels used conclave without exception. Election in this context when it the process is called conclave, would be factually wrong. If some organisation, state or country calls their electoral process by a special name we should use it. What is happening is quite simply a papal conclave and it should be referred to as such. Fear ÉIREANN  19:57, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Louis E. - conclaves may not have always existed, but the method was not always election either: acclaimation and committee have both been used. --Oldak Quill 20:00, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, both acclamation and committee are forms of election. Election is simply a process of choosing.  The balloting process, the third and most used form of election, is formally called scrutinizing. 66.254.233.0 04:35, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Very good point, Quill. I'd forgotten that. Until the late pope changed the rules, there were three methods of selection in a conclave. Election was just one. If as I hope will happen a series of articles is written about past conclaves, we clearly could not use election as some conclaves, albeit hundreds of years ago, were not elections but selection by committee or acclamation. Conclave is the only word that can apply to all three methods of selection used over a millennium. Fear ÉIREANN 20:08, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * We need to balance correctness with timelessness. If a user creates an article for a Papal selection in the 7th century we want it to follow a similar naming to that in 2005, for this neither election, nor conclave may suffice. A more ambiguous term such as "Papal selection, 2005" would achieve this, but this is too ambiguous to be correct. Does anyone have further suggestions? --Oldak Quill 20:17, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Contrary to Jtdirl's point,it is "election" that is the parent umbrella under which "conclave" is a special (post-1271) case.That conclaves have done their work in different fashions though now constrained to only use ballots does not take away their status as the post-1271 format of the selection process that became restricted to cardinals in 1059 but has existed since the 1st century,and for all we know may not always remain in the current format.--Louis E./12.144.5.2 20:23, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * A conclave is a term describing the meeting of the cardinals, including the ballot and wrangling. The election is just one part of it. Further, not all choices have been performed by a conclave - there have been public acclaimations by the Roman people, as well as committee choices which aren't conclaves in that they do not include all cardinals. --Oldak Quill 20:28, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Because conclaves have been used for so long I think it is the obvious term to use for the 100+ conclaves since the process of using conclaves began. Earlier systems changed over the years so they could be pulled together under a list of Selection of popes . A category could then be pulled together to join the pre-conclave selection processes and the conclaves. I may be wrong but I don't know if there is much surviving information about pre-conclave selections. There are limited enough sources for conclaves so most articles would simply be stubs. (It reminded me of the story of a cardinal at one conclave who wrote all the count results on the inside of his surplice in pen. When he got home a nun in his household washed the surplice not realising what it had written on the inside. All the records he had carefully gathered where washed out!!!)  Fear ÉIREANN  20:42, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * There has always been a papal election and the modern form of doing so is in a conclave.Just keep things straight,no need to call all elections conclaves.--L.E./12.144.5.2 20:45, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Was Martin V chosen by a proper conclave, or by the ecumenical council, or in some other way? The article Pope Martin V says it was a conclave, but also says that there were 30 non-cardinals involved in the election. So that's a weird case, at least. john k 02:43, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

An intersting twist: I was watching commentry on Papal pomp and circumstance today on BBC NEWS 24 and the "Roman Catholic expert" stated that "it is believed that Cardinals are guided by the Holy Spirit in the conclave". It is Roman Catholic belief that they are not exercising free will but are willing God to guide them - this is sounding less and less an "election" the more I learn. --Oldak Quill 18:56, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * This may be the belief of the Roman Catholic Church, but from an objective standpoint, one cannot but conclude that the process is actually an election, given that the cardinals actually do vote. -- Emsworth 01:09, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If this stays at the 'conclave' form, and Papal election doesn't become conclave or papal conclave (which I think leaving them with that mismatch is a bad idea), the intro (especially) needs to clearly explain why, including both words. As it was I didn't know Papal election would tell me what a 'conclave' is until I cut&pasted conclave into the Search box. Niteowlneils 03:56, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * "Papal election" should not move. It covers methods of election prior to conclaves. Moreover, I am surprised that "conclave" should be difficult to find, as it is bolded in the first paragraph. -- Emsworth 19:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Papabili bloat
The list of "papabili" in the article keeps growing,seemingly as soon as anyone hears someone mentioned as a possible pontiff.Beyond the duplicate listings,is some pruning in order?How much "support" should be needed to get on that list?

Once this election is over,a pruned list (the members younger than whoever gets elected would be the first cut,as it has been centuries since a Pope was not younger than his predecessor) belongs back at the papabile article.--L.E./12.144.5.2 19:57, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * We're also being inconsistent. This page lists Cardinal Sodano as papabile, but our article on him specifically says he's not generally seed an one of the papabili.  Then, the page says that the US and France are not likely sources of the new pope, but the Archbishop of Paris is at the top of the list, and the Archbishop of Chicago is on it as well.  I think we should only have a small list, maybe the top 10, let the other 20 currently there be outside choices.  If this keeps going, we'll have 180 cardinals on the list of papabili, and perhaps a few non-cardinal archbishops as well. Gentgeen 20:24, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I've removed the US & French's cardinals as it is (including news source) agreed that they're less likely to be selected, as per the article. I left Cardinal Sodano on as I don't know whether to remove him here or to change his article to say he is a Papabili.

 * Also, I do have to say some of the "Papabili" listed here seem to have rather remote a chance of actually getting selected. Never, ever, personally seen any of their names mentioned anywhere as a papabili. -- KTC 22:57, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Singular, papabile, plural, papabili. Cheers! alessio 08:53, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Cardinal Sodano and Cardinal Lustiger have been mentioned in various mainstream media discussions of possible papal candidates. I've never seen the Abp of Chicago listed, though. john k 23:43, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'd add that there are many people who are often listed as papabili, but are also noted to be thought not especially likely candidates. I think Lustiger, at least, should go back on, even if he is not likely to actually be elected. Our list should be about who has been named as a potential candidate, not about who we at wikipedia think is likely to actually be elected pope. john k 02:36, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree about Lustiger, he is on enough lists even if only as a wildcard. There is no "definitive" list of papabile and just because some argue that a Frenchman is ruled out doesn't mean one is. On the other hand, I've never seen any American names mentioned so I don't see the point of adding one. AndyL 02:47, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course Pius X, Pius XII, John XIII, John Paul I and John Paul II were not considered papabile. Maybe here would should list all 120 cardinals. (And yes, there are 120; 117 named, 3 secret. The second ones can attend and vote, maybe even get elected). Fear ÉIREANN  19:04, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * A cardinal who is named in pectore and is not eventually revealed by the pope before he dies is not a cardinal elector. So unless JP2 named his in pectore cardinals shortly before he died, and the Vatican hasn't said he did, and they're under 80, then the number of electors stays at 117. Gentgeen 19:49, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I've doublechecked and you are right. The only question is whether the pope did reveal their identity before dying. If he did, then they become full voting cardinals. As of now no announcement has been made suggesting that the pope named them, but it is possible that if he did the identities won't be revealed until after his funeral. Understandably the Vatican is otherwise engaged right now. Fear ÉIREANN  20:26, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * There was only one outstanding Cardinal in pectore at the death of John Paul II,announced as having been created at the 2003 consistory but never revealed.He had made three other in pectore creations during his pontificate,all eventually revealed (Kung in 1979,revealed 1991;Jaworski and Pujats both in 1998 and revealed in 2001).--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 20:33, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the correction, Louis. Good point. Fear ÉIREANN  21:28, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Can someone please tell me the reason that Cardinals Turkson,Sepe (both way too young I expect),and Poletto are on the papabili list,e.g. whose mention of them got them listed here?I've never seen them listed anywhere,and speculation on an African,on an Italian pastor,and on an Italian curialist all tend to focus on others in preference to these.--Louis E./le@put.com/12.144.5.2 15:46, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:2005 papal conclave/Archive 2


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File:Elyashev.jpg

Israel Isidor Elyashev

Old Postcard (from Benny's Postcards), 19th century

Steven Weiss, of the Steven Weiss Collection, has given permission for use, and says that the image is public domain.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File:Elyashev.jpg


text: User talk:72.1.206.21

title: User talk:72.1.206.21


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Garbageball

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD 01:08, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Garbageball
Non-notable - appears to be vanity/original research. 324 google hits, most of them not relating to this game. --194.73.130.132 15:09, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete. If I'm correct, this was deleted once before. - Lucky 6.9 15:53, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Just a bunch of friends inventing a sport. Until it catches on to the extent of being widely famous or properly organised, it's just a private in joke and therefore not notable. Average Earthman 18:25, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Mgm|(talk) 21:02, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable, game vanity. Megan1967 06:08, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Stoibadeion

The Stoibadeion (in Modern Greek: Στοιβαδείον [Stoivadeion]) is a temple to Dionysus located on the Greek island of Delos.

Description
The Stoibadeion contains a rectangular platform containing a statue of Dionysus, which was flanked by two actors impersonating Papposilenoi. These actors are now in the Delos Museum for protection. Two pillars, one on each side of the platform, each once supported a huge phallus, as a symbol of Dionysos. The southern pillar is decorated with relief scenes of a Dionysiac circle. Three sides of the southern pillar have relief representations: the central scene shows a cockerel whose head and neck are elongated into a phallus, on either side are groups containing Dionysus and a Maenad, with a small Silenus on one side and a figure of Pan on the other. The southern pillar bears an inscription that it was erected ca. 300 B.C. by a Delian named Carystios in celebration of a victorious theatrical performance he sponsored.

title: Stoibadeion


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The Hard Goodbye

"The Hard Goodbye" is the first story in the American Sin City Comics series. It was serialized, as "Sin City", in the comics anthology Dark Horse Presents by Dark Horse Comics and named "The Hard Goodbye" in the trade paperbacks. It was created by Frank Miller, and led to a metaseries that has been adapted into a movie.

Publication history
The first episode of the comic was published as "Sin City" in the anthology Dark Horse Presents: 5th Anniversary Special (April 1991) and starting with episode two, was published as a continuing series in Dark Horse Presents issues #51–62 (June 1991–June 1992). The series was written, drawn and lettered by Frank Miller.

The original issues were edited by Randy Stradley, and Diana Schutz is editor of the 2005 collected edition.

Summary
"The Hard Goodbye" begins with the protagonist, Marv, being accused of the murder of the beautiful prostitute, Goldie. Marv is an ex-military man and a trained professional killer so naturally framing him would be easy. However, he felt connected to Goldie and spent one night with her before her tragic death. The night of her murder she and Marv got drunk, made love, and fell asleep together. Three hours later, Marv wakes up and finds Goldie dead. He wonders why she would agree to sleep with him and he refers to her as his own personal heaven in the hell that he calls Sin City. Suddenly the cop sirens grow closer and louder, which makes Marv slip out on to the streets of Sin City. Marv has become a prime suspect when he is framed for Goldie's murder. During this time, a serial killer is on the loose in Sin City who preys on prostitutes and eats them.

Marv becomes determined to find Goldie's killer and immediately goes to his mother's house to retrieve his gun. His mother informs him that some men came by the house looking for him. Marv goes to the bar to hide out, but two assassins come and attack him. Before he kills the two men, he forces them to tell him who sent them. Continuing his investigation, he is led to a priest who then tells him to question the leading family in Sin City and the cardinal of the church, Roark. Marv follows the trail of clues to an abandoned farm where the serial killer, Kevin, is keeping his victims' heads as trophies. He also discovers that Kevin kidnapped his parole officer, Lucille, and has eaten her hand. Marv and Lucille manage to escape. Although, when the cops show up to the scene, Lucille is murdered by a corrupt cop. Marv is able to escape the cops but not before he forces their leader to reveal Roark's name.

During Marv's journey he comes across Goldie's twin sister, Wendy. Wendy is also a prostitute and together they decide to go after the cardinal. They approach Roark's home and confront him about the murders and his cannibalistic actions. Marv beats, dismembers and feeds Kevin to his pet wolf after hearing him confess to the murders, especially Goldie's murder and his obsession with eating women. Unfortunately, Marv is arrested, tried, and executed for all of his crimes. The authorities force him to confess to Goldie's murder and the murder of the other prostitutes when they threaten his mother. Before his death, Marv only finds comfort while incarcerated in his visits from Wendy, in which he shares tales of his time spent with Goldie. The story ends with Marv being executed by electric chair.

Collected edition
It was collected as a trade paper-back named Sin City in 1992, and then subtitled The Hard Goodbye in January 1993 featuring several different cover designs over its multiple printings/titles. The series was reprinted in smaller sized digest-trades to tie-into the film, with covers designed by Chip Kidd.

Awards
The story has received a number of awards:

 * 1992:
 * Nominated for "Best Single Issue or Story" Eisner Award
 * Frank Miller was nominated for "Best Writer/Artist or Writer/Artist Team" Eisner Award, for Sin City
 * Frank Miller was nominated for "Best Artist" Eisner Award, for Sin City
 * 1993:
 * Won "Best Graphic Album: Reprint (Modern Material)" Eisner Award
 * Frank Miller won "Best Penciller/Inker, Black & White Publication" Eisner Award, for Sin City
 * Frank Miller won "Best Writer/Artist" Eisner Award, for Sin City
 * Nominated for "Best Serialized Story" Eisner Award, for Dark Horse Presents #58-62
 * Frank Miller was nominated for "Best Writer" Eisner Award, for Sin City

Cinematic adaptation
In 2005, this was one of the stories adapted into the film Sin City. "The Babe Wore Red and Other Stories", "The Hard Goodbye", The Big Fat Kill, That Yellow Bastard plot lines were all used in the film. Actor Mickey Rourke played the role of Marv. The segment also starred Jaime King as Goldie/Wendy, Rutger Hauer as Cardinal Roark, Elijah Wood as Kevin and Carla Gugino as Lucille.

Directors of the film Sin City include the original author, Frank Miller, Robert Rodriguez, and Quentin Tarantino. The additional directors contributed to the violence depicted in the novel, as they both hold cinematic backgrounds of similar styles.

title: The Hard Goodbye


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User talk:Jonas Olson

about scandinavia-link
Yes, it should be fixed, I don't know why the system refused to accept it, but also you are right that its place is not there...

title: User talk:Jonas Olson


text:
User:Ben Goldman

Ben Goldman
Hi, I'm Ben Goldman and this is a page all about me. Here is a short biography. I'm sixteen and live in Virginia, USA. I have been doing webdesign for a couple of years and really enjoy it. Although I enjoy "playing" on the computer, school still takes up most of my day. I have the huge privilege of being homeshooled for my entire life. I have also been raised by two great Christian parents. I enjoy history, math, technology, computers, and web-devlopment. My website :Real Alibi Some websites I made: HOW Now BrownCow This Day Band Escalera Photography

title: User:Ben Goldman


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Talk:Jabba's Palace

"Jabba has many strange beings in his following entourage.Here are some diverse examples :

Tessek: A clever Quarren from Mon Calamari,Tessek is Jabba's accountant.

J'Quille: J'Quille is a brutal Whiphid from the cold planet of Toola,working as a manhunter for Jabba."

Removed from main article April 6 2005 - these should probably go somewhere like List of minor Star Wars characters. SteveW 15:14, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC) QQGHH HCHDX GHFZGAQBFH HHHBGG                              GXGXD

title: Talk:Jabba's Palace


text:
Talk:Crab landing

Perhaps we can mention a little bit how the 13 runway of Kai Tak was famous for crab landing. — Instantnood 15:14, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure this is the right term?
As a (glider) pilot, I learned that the term "Crab Landing" does NOT reffer to the entire "sidewise aproach" but only to the occasional mishap when a (usually a beginner pilot) touching down while the airplane is not aligned properly forward.

Are you sure that you defined this term correctly?

Penedo 05:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

 * No, I am not 100% certain, but I am 95% certain. This is how I was taught it for my PPL. -User:Lommer | talk 06:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you try to verify this with your instructor? I'll try to verify this in my circles but I'm a bit out of action right now (and know more glider pilots than PPL pilots). Penedo 01:02, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Also, did you mean the 747 "Jambo" or is that a typo for Jumbo? Do all variants of the '47 have this gear feature or just a few? -User:Lommer | talk 07:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The "Jambo" spelling is a typo on my part. About the gear feature - I'm still trying to find more evidence to this feature. I only heard it a couple of times (from people I trust to know this stuff) and would prefer to base my contributions here on more than a hearsay. Penedo 01:02, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

The only reference I found about the 747 landing gear doesn't sound like it supports what I heard:
 * http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/acaps/7474sec4.pdf

(accessible through http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/747.htm) titled "4.0 GROUND MANEUVERING" page 2 says: "During takeoff and landing, the body gear steering system is centered, mechanically locked, and depressurized."

Can it still mean that the landing gear can sustain the forces required to turn it around (to align with the landing direction) upon contact with the ground?

I'm still trying to find out. In the meantime I'll remove the 747 as an example from this page. Penedo 01:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I was surprised when you said that the 747 could crab its gear. The main gear does turn but that's just for ground manouvering AFAIK. -User:Lommer | talk 02:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

 * OK, now it's final (as far as I'm concerned): 1. the 747 can't turn its gear during landing for crab landings. 2. The term "crab landing" only refers to the actual accidental touch-down when not completly aligned with the direction of landing. More details: the 747 can't do crab-landing the way I was led to believe because this would mean that its nose gear is outside the runway. It still can't roll the up-wind wing like smaller aircrafts because of the engine problem I describe and also because it might hit the side-lights with the tip of its wing. For these reasons the 747 have very strict cross-wind landing limitations (35 kts on dry runway, 25 kts on wet one, I don't know the limits for other kinds of powered planes but these limits are not far from the limits of advanced gliders). My sources - a current 747 co-pilot and the chief instructor of my gliding club (and CFI for powered planes too).
 * So the bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that this item should be edited to reflect that "crab landing" refers only to the accidental touch down and not the entire aproach in cross-wind.
 * Do you agree with that?
 * Cheers - Penedo 22:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have footage of a B52 using its special twisty wheels? Bastie 12:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Crab landing


text:
Ahmed Shafeeq Ibrahim Moosa

Ahmed Shafeeq Ibrahim Moosa (Dhivehi: އަހްމަދު ޝަފީގް އިބްރާހިމް މޫސާ) (b. November 4, 1968), also known as Sappé, is a Maldivian editor-in-chief and politician who served as the first Envoy for Science and Technology to be appointed by the first democratically elected president of the Maldives, Mohamed Nasheed. He was appointed to his position on 11 March 2009 and resigned from the Maldivian government on 9 February 2012, soon after President Nasheed's government was allegedly overthrown by the incumbent President Mohammed Waheed Hassan two days earlier. Moosa is amongst those who campaigned for democracy and human rights which led to the end of the 30-year rule of Gayoom in November 2008. He is the founder and editor-in-chief of the news website Dhivehi Observer.

Moosa is a senior member of the Maldivian Democratic Party and was elected to its first General Council. He was a widely outspoken critic of the former president Maumoon Abdul Gayoom. He lived in self-proclaimed exile in the United Kingdom with his family from 2003 to 2008. The opposition Coalition won the Presidential Election held in October 2008.

Moosa resides in Glasgow, United Kingdom as of 2009.

Early and personal life
Moosa was born in Malé, Maldives. He first married in 1995 and had three sons from that marriage: Adam, Michael and Daniel. He married secondly Fathimath Moosa, with whom he had a son and a daughter, Alexander and Enya. He later married Aminath Moosa and had a daughter, Emma.

Before his political career began, Moosa filled several government and private company posts. He also managed and ran his own businesses. In March 1999 he founded A Company Pvt Ltd. The company was mainly involved in consultancy work in engineering, web design, printing and publishing, composition of business and marketing proposals and reports.

Moosa was practically involved in designing and production of the election campaign material for Ilyas Ibrahim (brother-in-law of the president Gayoom) in 1999 who ran against Mohamed Nasheed (of the opposition) for representing the people of Malé as a member of the parliament. "I worked in Ilyas's last campaign (1999) on the request of Mr. Qasim Ibrahim which later turned out to be a regrettable experience."

Since 1999 Moosa has been a consultant to Qasim Ibrahim, Chairman of Villa Shipping and Trading Company, the largest private company in the Maldives. He is the leader of the Jumhooree Party, which is part of the current government coalition.

Education
Moosa completed his secondary education at the Malé English School, Malé. In 1990 he acquired General Certificate of Education with distinction in all subjects, from Asmai Secondary School, Kuwait. On 13 July 1995 he graduated from University of Glasgow with a BEng with honours in mechanical engineering. Two years later, in 1997, he graduated at University of Birmingham acquiring PhD (Engineering) in metallurgy and materials.

Political career
On 19 September 2003, Evan Naseem who was serving at Maafushi jail was severely beaten up and ultimately paid with his life, the result of a series of complicated disputes between inmates. News broke out the following day and there was a civil unrest in the capital city of the Maldives, Malé. The BBC covered this event and Moosa gave an interview to the BBC the following month and left Maldives, on 15 October 2003, to the United Kingdom. The interview was aired on 17 October 2003. He says he left the country because he believed he would be in danger if he remained in Maldives. "I have already left the country fearing the worst" said Sappé in a written statement published on his website.

He joined the Maldivian Democratic Party on 10 November 2003, soon after its official announcement and was a member of its general council. However, he does not get involved with day-to-day operations of the party for two reasons. That is, MDP's major operations are carried out in Sri Lanka and he operates his own website DhivehiObserver, which is his major line of connection with the Maldivian public.

After his initial interview with the BBC, he gave several other interviews. They appeared to have exerted pressure on Maldivian government.

According to the article published on The Daily Telegraph on 15 September 2006, Ahmed Moosa was threatened via email by the wife of police commissioner Adam Zahir, Husna Latheef, on 11 April 2005. Moosa filed a complaint to Wiltshire Police who investigated the death threat with the assistance of the Metropolitan Police in London. The threat was traced back to Husna Latheef's email and was issued with a first verbal warning under the Harassment Act.

title: Ahmed Shafeeq Ibrahim Moosa


text:
File:Sin City Hard Goodbye.jpg

Licensing
sq:Skeda:Sincitym.jpg

title: File:Sin City Hard Goodbye.jpg


text:
User talk:Oxydo~enwiki

Welcome to the Wikipedia
I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Foundation issues
 * Policy Library

For more information click  here . You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

(Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 15:16, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Japanese Babel
Hello, I am a Japanese wikipedian, and we're trying to maintain Babel on Japanese Wikipedia. I have put a message on your talk page of Arabian wikipedia.....
 * Could you add an Arabian message to Babel/ja-0?
 * Could you add Arabian message instead of العربية to ja:Category:User ar, ja:Category:User ar-1, ja:Category:User ar-2, ja:Category:User ar-3 and ja:Category:User ar-N, like ja:Category:User en, ja:Category:User en-1, ja:Category:User en-2, ja:Category:User en-3 and ja:Category:User en-N?--Ã£ 01:33, 2005 May 31 (UTC)

Report
Im doing a report on Arabic Language Wikipedia and information on it is pretty scarce, i was wondering if you could provide any info, or sources. Thanks--Elatanatari 20:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
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Renamed
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title: User talk:Oxydo~enwiki


text:
Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Category:Coup d'états

The following discussion comes from Categories for deletion. This is an archive of the discussion only; please do not edit this page. -Kbdank71 15:16, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Category:Coup d'états → Category:Coups d'état
Wasn't thinking about the French meaning of the words when I created this category... -  BanyanTree 00:01, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * rename to correct french (and English) spelling. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 23:42, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * COMMENT shouldn't this be Category:Coups des états or Category:Coups d'états? 132.205.15.43 14:21, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I wondered about that... it may be one of those weird plurals like fish and fishes - if the coups are all in one state they're coups d'état, if they're coups in more than one state they're coups des états. I don't know. Anyone? Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]

 * Rename to Category:Coups d'etat; this is a word which has been assimilated into English without the diacritical marks. Webster's Third New International lists the plural as "coups d'etat also coup d'etats" so keeping it as is is better than using the French spelling, which would be proper in the French Wikipedia. Gene Nygaard 15:31, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I checked it up - the correct plural is coups d'état in International English; in the US, however, it can be coups d'état, coup d'états, or either of those without the accent. For the sake of simplicity, I suggest the only one which is correct in both US and international English (i.e., Category:Coups d'état). Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 11:53, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * So just who are the language police of this International English? Where have they published their standards?  Gene Nygaard 04:44, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh! I didn't know that there was another meaning of International English that is different from (or if you prefer, different than) that best known in this part of the world! The term is used in many countries to mean standard English as it is used outside the United States (which tends to be far more homogeneous than it is when you include US English). Certainly the only use I've ever heard for it is English as it is used in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada, and the other English speaking parts of the world excluding the United States. And those parts of the world tend to use the Complete Oxford English Dictionary as the standard. (Actually, looking more closely, I see this is covered on that page, at International_English). As for "the language police", there are none needed. If you check several different dictionaries and they all give you the same result, then chances are it is the correct one. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 05:45, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * So, in other words, that "I checked it up" is what we in western North America would call "bullshitting." If that isn't an International English term, it should be.  Gene Nygaard 13:54, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Google
 * "coup d'etats" site:bbc.co.uk         24 hits
 * Gene Nygaard 13:51, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Comment. Ok, folks, let's all take a breather.  So far, discounting the anon vote, it looks like it's going to be Category:Coups d'etat or Category:Coups d'état.  Personally I could care less if it has the diacritical marks or not.  Strike that, it's easier to type without it, because my keyboard doesn't have that key, and I'm too lazy to copy and paste it from somewhere.  Then again, the proposal is just to move the "s", so bottom line, I don't care either way.  But this page is getting quite large.  Can we agree on something so I can archive this?  (also, shouldn't we all be discussing something more important, like, oh, say, mainland china?) -Kbdank71 14:36, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't vote, I made a comment. But you shouldn't automatically discount it if it makes sense, either. That would violate the policy of impartiality that Wikipedia has. 132.205.15.43 03:15, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Fine. I have no objection. I do object to Gene's unwarranted insult, since "I checked it up" means I did exactly what I said. I looked it up in a number of different, reputable dictionaries; each one gave me the same result - the one that I mentioned. But, hey, he's entitled to his opinion, and if he thinks that I'm bullshitting, then that's his prerogative. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 06:01, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * The point is that if you did so, you did not cite any of them. Nor did you explain what you meant by International English nor who you think sets the standards for it--and you still haven't done so. You were quite obviously trying to pull the wool over our eyes--and you still are. Even more irritating was the gratuitous America-bashing.  It was only in a followup to the "checked it up" one that you alluded to only one source, the OED, as if that were your only source.  You still have not actually cited a single source.  Furthermore, while the OED is an interesting archive of trivia related to the actual usage of words throughout history, it is of little use in determining best current usage from among the variants in use, and I'd be very much surprised if the quoted excerpts exemplifying published usage were totally uniform in their spellings.
 * In all fairness, the BBC online is about equally divided between "coup d'etats" and "coups d'etat" but only has 4 hits in 2 articles for "coups d'etats" (none with diacriticals) and 5 hits (but only shows 4) all to the same article for "coups d'état" with the é. Similarly, in its usage of the singular form "coup d'etat" greatly outnumbers "coup d'état", likely by more than 30:1. Gene Nygaard 10:20, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * The point is that you decide to go straight ahead and attack me, rather than arguing the points I had raised. I explained quite thoroughly what I meant by International English, even pointing out a section of a Wikipedia article where it is listed. I also pointed out that no one person or organisation sets the standards, rather a good judgement of it can be obtained by looking at a wide cross section or reputable dictionaries. Even more irritating is your somewhat ludicrous suggestion that I am America-bashing. I am not, and I demand that you show at least one place anywhere where I have America-bashed in this argument, or elsewhere. Perhaps my suggestion that more people outside the United States use English than within it is in some way a pernicious attack on the country to your mind? As for BBC online, as you are no doubt aware, their policy is to deliberately eschew all diacriticals for the sake of their online editors and the browsers which their readers use. Wikipedia does not. As it happens, Cassell, Collins, Penguin, and Reader's Digest were the other dictionary publishers I checked - i.e., with the Oxford, a total of four British publishers and one American publisher. Actually I checked two American publishers, but my very old copy of Websters must be out of date and/or wrong, since it listed coups d'état as a valid alternative plural. Oh, and launching an ad hominem attack on me and on the OED doesn't really help your argument. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 12:45, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Sigh. I guess nobody took my suggestion about taking a breather.  Ok, how about this, can we drop the personal stuff and concentrate on the issue at hand?  Or if you must, take it to a talk page somewhere.  (hmm, anyone know if there's an opening on the mediation committee? :)  -Kbdank71 16:33, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * COMMENT If we use the singular form Category:Coup d'état that would deal with it, can it be considered the infinitive form? 132.205.15.43 03:07, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Um. Infinitive form of a noun??? Wiki standard is plurals.
 * Isn't it a verb too? It's an action... Argh, not enough sleep. 132.205.15.43 20:06, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I coup d'état, he coups d'état, we all coup d'état together. Naah. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]
 * And the most common English plural is coups. Period.  Gene Nygaard 04:42, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * True. And surely unambiguous enough that that is all that is needed for a title. Saves the problem with the diacritical (or lack of). Agree with Gene - just Coups. Full stop ;) Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 06:47, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, "coups" 132.205.15.43 20:06, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Good, "coups" it is. Archiving.  -Kbdank71 15:16, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Vicky Botwright

Untitled
She has been competing in pro squash events in some form or another since 1998. As of 2005 Apr she is ranked 7th in the world, her best ranking so far. Prior to her entry into the top 10, her principle attribute-of-interest has been that she is "not hard to look at." Tried to wear a thong to a tournament once. For other info, go to WISPA website. —Eoghanacht 15:16, 2005 Apr 6 (UTC)

 * By the way, I have no opinion on whether or not the article should stay or go. A top-ten women's squash pro is not an obvious keeper, but I don't know if it is unimportant enough to delete by Wikipedia standards. —Eoghanacht 11:04, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Vicky Botwright


text:
Poor Relief Act 1662

The Poor Relief Act 1662 (14 Cha. 2. c. 12) was an Act of the Cavalier Parliament of England. It was an Act for the Better Relief of the Poor of this Kingdom and is also known as the Settlement Act or the Settlement and Removal Act. The purpose of the Act was to establish the parish to which a person belonged (i.e. his/her place of "settlement"), and hence clarify which parish was responsible for him should he become in need of Poor Relief (or "chargeable" to the parish poor rates). This was the first occasion when a document proving domicile became statutory: these were called "settlement certificates".

After 1662, if a man left his settled parish to move elsewhere, he had to take his settlement certificate, which guaranteed that his home parish would pay for his "removal" costs (from the host parish) back to his home if he needed poor relief. As parishes were often unwilling to issue such certificates, people often stayed where they were – knowing that, should they become indigent, they would be entitled to their parish's poor rate.

The 1662 Act stipulated that if a poor person (that is, resident of a tenancy with a taxable value less than £10 per year, who did not fall under the other protected categories) remained in the parish for forty days of undisturbed residency, he could acquire "settlement rights" in that parish. However, within those forty days, upon any local complaint, two justices of the peace could remove the man and return him to his home parish. As a result, some parish officers dispatched their poor to other parishes, with instructions to remain hidden for forty days before revealing themselves. This loophole was closed with the Reviving and Continuance Act 1685 (1 Ja. 2. c.17) which required new arrivals to register with parish authorities. But sympathetic parish officers often hid the registration, and did not reveal the presence of new arrivals until the required residency period was over. As a result, the law was further tightened in 1692 by the (Poor Relief Act 1691 (3 Will. & Mar. c. 11), and parish officers were obliged to publicly publish arrival registrations in writing in the local church Sunday circular, and read to the congregation, and that the forty days would only start counting from thereon.

The settlement laws benefited the owners of large estates who controlled housing. Some land owners demolished empty housing in order to reduce the population of their lands and prevent people from returning. It was also common to recruit labourers from neighbouring parishes so that they could easily be sacked. Magistrates could order parishes to grant poor relief. However, often the magistrates were landowners and therefore unlikely to make relief orders that would increase poor rates.

The Settlement Act was repealed in 1834 (under the terms of the Poor Law Amendment Act 1834, which introduced the union workhouses), although not fully. The concept of parish settlement has been characterised as "incompatible with the newly developing industrial system", because it hindered internal migration to factory towns.

It was finally repealed by section 245 of, and schedule 11 to, the Poor Law Act 1927 (17 & 18 Geo. 5. c. 14) and by the Statute Law Revision Act 1948.

Settlement terms
To gain settlement in a parish a person had to meet at least one of the following conditions:-

 * Be born into the parish.
 * Have lived in the parish for forty consecutive days without complaint.
 * Be hired for over a year and a day that takes place within the parish – (this led to short lengths of hire so that settlement was not obtained).
 * Hold an office in the parish.
 * Rent a property worth £10 per year or pay the same in taxes.
 * Have married into the parish.
 * Gained poor relief in that parish previously.
 * Have a seven-year apprenticeship with a settled resident.

title: Poor Relief Act 1662


text:
User talk:Jdemarcos

Archive 1: April 2004 – August 2012

Catalan Culture Challenge
I've seen on your userpage that you speak Catalan: From March 16 to April 15 we will be organising the Catalan Culture Challenge, a Wikipedia editing contest in which victory will go to those who start and improve the greatest number of articles about 50 key figures of Catalan culture. You can take part by creating or expanding articles on these people in your native language (or any other one you speak). We look forward to seeing you! Amical Wikimedia--Kippelboy (talk) 07:14, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jdemarcos


text:
Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy/schools

This is a poll held in 2003, with 31 voters, that failed to achieve a clear consensus about the issue. It isn't policy, because 1) it nowhere states that it is a policy proposal, it is only a poll; 2) the low number of people responding; 3) it is two years old and not necessarily reflects current opinions; 4) the divisions of the poll make it very unclear; and 5) only a number of special cases are given, with no general conclusion. (comments by Radiant_*)

 * Rebuttal: 1) It does state it is a policy proposal. The page is named "deletion policy/schools". The introduction states "rather than discuss this repeatedly on VfD every time a school article appears, it would be more sensible to gain a consensus which could be applied to all of them. That's what this page is for." 2) For its day this poll had a very large turnout, it must be remembered that Wikipedia is vastly larger today then it was two years ago. 3) This is true, but until a new poll or discussion is held is held to replace it this is still the most important decision on school deletion. 4) For the most general question "Any school about which we can write a non-trivial, non-stub, NPOV article" there was clear consensus against deletion. - SimonP 11:59, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * Re-re-buttal:
 * It does not state it is a policy proposal. A user can make (or rename) an article as he wishes, and that doesn't make it so. It is a sensible attempt to gain a consensus, as it states, and nothing more. Unfortunately it hasn't gained a consensus.
 * I'll take your word for it, but that doesn't make it policy either. You ignore the fact that the discussion above the voting is more important, and it shows no consensus. Votes do not a consensus make (per voting is evil and WP:WIN a democracy).
 * This is obviously wrong. Again per WIN a democracy, the 'Pedia does not work on a given number of rules that are set in stone until officially amended. Policies work if and only if the consensus follows them. As such, you cannot make people obey an outdated poll.
 * First, a lot of the votes were added after the poll closed; people continue to occasionally add votes, which is pointless, confusing and distorting (hence the 'historical' template is appropriate, and please stop removing it). Second, no conclusion was ever drawn from it. Third, you apply this hypothetical conclusion to every school, while it is not a given that on any school, a non-triv non-stub NPOV article can be written.
 * In closing - compare this with the 'additions to CSD' page. That is a policy proposal, with clear criterion, with clear voting, and with clear conclusions when the voting closed. This certainly is not.
 * Radiant_* 12:18, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * You are using today's standards to judge whether the poll is valid or not. Wikipedia was far less formal back then.  We did not have votes. Rather we had polls that continued until there was consensus or lack thereof. They had no closing time and if consensus was not reached the poll continued indefinitely (See Talk:Georgia for one of these polls that continues to this day).  At a certain point any Wikipedian who was interested in such issues had already voted and the polls would mostly stop being added to. Policies would be based on these outcomes, but they were mostly unwritten as everyone remembered the poll its outcome.  In the long run this system proved unworkable as Wikipedia grows so quickly that there is a constant influx of people who do not remember the past debates and polls.  Thus today we are in the regrettable but necessary situation where we have many hundreds of policy pages and polls that actually are votes with exact cut offs and results that are hardcoded as official policies. This does not change the fact almost all of Wikipedia's base policies were decided the old way and that if we only obeyed the policies that had been determined by the modern methods the encyclopedia would collapse. This poll is just as valid as the rules against blank pages, adjectives in page titles, or subpages. - SimonP 05:40, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * You are the only one claiming this to be policy. You cannot unilaterally declare it so. If it truly is policy, it should be easy for you to find two or three people agreeing with you (by which I emphatically do not mean general inclusionists who wish it were so). So far, everyone else I've spoken to about this concurs that this poll yields no consensus. And unlike the rule against subpages, this one is contested. So I do believe consensus is that this is not policy. Radiant_* 07:51, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not policy, but it could be considered semi-policy, there is an important distinction. Who have you spoken to that found to poll reached no consensus? I have already cited several users who felt the poll was valid: Camenbert, Angela, , Cyrius , and Andrewa . But perhaps they are just "radical inclusionists". - SimonP 13:51, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Camembert's remark is a year old. Frank says there's "not much consensus". Cyrius's is nearly a year old and he agrees there's no consensus, it's merely his reading, and that it's based on recent (i.e. May 2004) VfDs. Andrewa's remark is also nearly a year old, and she doesn't cite it as policy but as a reason for voting.
 * In Votes_for_deletion/Ngee_ann_secondary_school, Thryduulf says the poll "was already regarded as out of date in October 2004", and Dpbsmith says it is "so completely and irremediably confused that no intelligent person can be expected to try to make head or tail of it".
 * Anyway this is going nowhere. I suppose we could get a RfC to confirm whether or not this is policy, if you want. We could also go for a new poll but I don't see how it's worth the trouble since we can both already see that it will not yield a consensus, nor will it become policy. Radiant_* 14:07, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Deletion policy
Wikipedia currently has articles on Pokemon characters (List of Pokémon by name), Star Wars episodes, and mundane rock-n-roll albums. Every argument presented for the deletion of schools applies to these other topics, and even more strongly. Schools are some of the most important social and cultural institutions that we, as the human race, have; schools are where children learn to become adults; these future adults take over the task of living after we are old and dead and gone. Surely this is far more "notable" than commemorating some bogus fictional Pokemon character? If we are blanket-deleting schools, we should surely blanket-delete the TV episodes from wikipedia first. linas 17:51, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy/schools


text:
User talk:The Donbreakyourarmi

Welcome to the Wikipedia
I noticed you were new, and wanted to share some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Foundation issues
 * Policy Library

For more information click  here . You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

(Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 15:17, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:The Donbreakyourarmi


text:
User talk:Masterchicker

Masterchicker
Please quit creating your vanity page in the article space. I am going to move the Masterchicker page BACK to your User page, where it was once before. If you move it back again, you will be blocked for 24 hours for vandalism. RickK 23:24, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Erwin the master chicker.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Erwin the master chicker.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 19:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Masterchicker


text: User:Thesteve/Blarney

title: User:Thesteve/Blarney


text:
User talk:Mviolet

Welcome
Hello , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Thanks for your contribution to Votes for deletion/Stockroom.com. You really helped to illustrate how JT's Stockroom had a significant effect on the BDSM community. Would you mind adding some of that text to the article itself? Don't worry about whether it's polished or not. You made some good points, and one of the great things about Wikipedia is that other people can help with the polishing. FreplySpang (talk) 15:18, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

- Thanks a lot FreplySpang! I appreciate the welcome and I'm feeling really good about saving the Stockroom's entry. I'll add my text and hope that someone edits it down a bit. I'm already seeing the potential for addiction to editing on Wiki, which is why I've avoided it. I'll just focus on my one little area of knowledge and try not to become a junkie. Still trying to get the hang of this format. I appreciate that I've changed your viewpoint with further information. Thanks thanks thanks.... M. Violet 18:36, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mviolet


text:
Angelo Peruzzi

Angelo Peruzzi (born 16 February 1970) is an Italian football coach and former goalkeeper, and a three-time winner of the Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year award.

Peruzzi is regarded by pundits as one of the greatest Italian goalkeepers of all time, and as one of the best goalkeepers of his generation. Throughout his career, he played for Italian clubs Roma, Hellas Verona, Juventus, Internazionale and Lazio. He had a highly successful spell with Juventus, where he won three Serie A titles, the Coppa Italia, the UEFA Cup and the UEFA Champions League, among other titles; he won a second Coppa Italia with Lazio before retiring with the club in 2007. At international level, he played 31 times for the Italy national team from his debut in 1995, and was a member of their squad which won the 2006 FIFA World Cup. He also represented them at the 1992 Olympics, at UEFA Euro 1996 (as a starting goalkeeper), and at Euro 2004.

Club career
Peruzzi began his Serie A career with Roma in 1987. He was loaned to Hellas Verona in 1989, but was one of the two Roma players (the other being Andrea Carnevale) to be suspended for a year in October 1990 after failing a doping test because of an appetite suppressant he was taking at the time, which contained the banned substance Phentermine.

His signing with Juventus in 1991 successfully revived his career and he soon surpassed Stefano Tacconi as the club's starting goalkeeper, remaining with the team until 1999, and winning the Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year Award in 1997 and 1998, as well as the Guerin d'oro in 1997. Peruzzi won three Serie A titles, a Coppa Italia, two Supercoppa Italiana titles, a UEFA Cup, a UEFA Super Cup, an Intercontinental Cup and was part of Juventus' 1996 UEFA Champions League title squad that defeated Ajax in the final on penalties, saving two in the final shoot-out. He also reached two more consecutive Champions League finals with the Turin-based club, as well as a semi-final finish during his final season with the club. Peruzzi also won a runners-up medal in the 1995 UEFA Cup final and in the 1992 Coppa Italia final, and was voted to the ESM Team of the Year during the 1996–97 and the 1997–98 seasons. Over this period, several Italian pundits began to consider him the best goalkeeper in the world, due to his consistency.

Following the departure of Gianluca Pagliuca, Peruzzi's perceived career rival in his position, from Internazionale to Bologna in 1999, Peruzzi left Juventus for Inter in 1999 on a 28 billion lire (€14.461 million) transfer fee, and a reported 8 billion lire pre-tax wage. Peruzzi spent one unsuccessful season with the club – despite his excellent performances – under his former Juventus manager Marcello Lippi, finishing the league season in fourth place, and reaching the Coppa Italia final.

The following season, he transferred to Lazio for 40 billion lire (€20.658 million; in a cash plus Marco Ballotta deal), and made over 200 appearances in Serie A and European competitions with the club, winning the Supercoppa Italiana in 2000 and the Coppa Italia in 2004. He kept playing at a very high level, being generally considered the best Italian goalkeeper behind Gianluigi Buffon.

Although his contract with the Biancocelesti ran until 2008, Peruzzi retired at the end of the 2006–07 season: after the 0–0 draw with Roma 29 April 2007, Peruzzi stated that he had played his last match due to the frustration of nagging injuries. However, he was put on in the final few minutes in Lazio's final home match of the season, a goalless draw against Parma on 20 May, as a goodbye to the fans. He was named the Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year for the third time in his career on 28 January 2008.

International career
Peruzzi was capped 31 times in 11 years with Italy, between 1995 and 2005. He was also a member of the national squad that competed at the 1992 Summer Olympics in Barcelona, making two appearances during the tournament. Peruzzi made his senior debut under manager Arrigo Sacchi, in a 4–1 home win over Estonia, in an UEFA Euro 1996 qualifying match, on 25 March 1995, and he was named Italy's starting goalkeeper at Euro 1996, although Italy suffered a group-stage elimination. He was scheduled to be the starter at the 1998 FIFA World Cup under Cesare Maldini, but suffered a late injury and was replaced in the starting line-up by Gianluca Pagliuca.

After the 1998 World Cup, Maldini was replaced by Italy's former goalkeeper and record-setter Dino Zoff, who confirmed Peruzzi as first-choice goalkeeper during his first year as Italy's coach: nonetheless, after a match against Norway in 1999, Gianluigi Buffon was given the starting spot, while Francesco Toldo became his first substitute. Being overtaken by two colleagues, Peruzzi chose not to participate in the Euro 2000 as the third goalkeeper, a decision that, in Zoff's words, prevented him from potentially recovering his first-choice status: because of the last-minute injury that excluded Buffon from the tournament, Peruzzi could have been the starter instead of Toldo, had he accepted the call.

Peruzzi did not play for Italy again until making a substitute appearance in a friendly against Spain on 28 April 2004, and was subsequently called up by Giovanni Trapattoni as a backup keeper at Euro 2004: Trapattoni's choice appeared unusual, since Italy's third-choice goalkeeper for World Cups and European Championships was generally selected among young, promising ones; instead, the contemporary presence of two veteran keepers such as Peruzzi and Toldo raised doubts about their actual role behind Buffon, because neither of them would have easily accepted to play a marginal part.

In August 2005, he was the starter in two World Cup qualifiers against Scotland and Belarus, while Buffon was shelved with a shoulder injury; Peruzzi then served as second goalkeeper (behind Buffon) in the 2006 World Cup under Marcello Lippi, as Italy won the tournament for the fourth time. Even though he did not take the field, teammate Daniele De Rossi highlighted Peruzzi's important role in the squad as a key dressing room personality, due to his leadership and experience. Peruzzi retired from international football after the tournament.

Style of play
A powerful, athletic, complete, and consistent goalkeeper – although injury-prone –, Peruzzi was renowned for his physical strength, positioning, explosive reactions, speed, and agility, in spite of his sturdy physique; he particularly excelled at quickly rushing off his line to parry or collect the ball on the ground, as well as at anticipating his opponents outside the penalty area, which made him particularly effective in teams which relied on a zonal marking defensive system with high defensive lines. Due to his modest height for a goalkeeper, he was less effective at coming out to collect crosses, and preferred to punch the ball out rather than trying to catch it, although his handling was generally reliable. While he was extremely gifted both technically and acrobatics-wise, he was an efficient goalkeeper, who performed spectacular dives only in case of strict necessity: he indeed believed that "a great keeper must walk across the line: this way he disheartens the opposing strikers, because he seems to save shots effortlessly". Throughout his career, he also stood out for his concentration, and for his ability to produce decisive saves even after not having been called into action for long periods of time during a match; he was also effective at stopping penalties, while he was not particularly skilled with the ball at his feet, and usually preferred to clear the ball away whenever it was passed back to him.

A precocious talent in his youth, he was regarded as one of the best goalkeepers in the world in his prime during the 1990s, but also stood out for his longevity in his later career, which enabled him to maintain a consistently high level of performances. Although he was known for his personality, leadership from the back, strong mentality, and the confidence he inspired in his teammates throughout his career, he had quite a kind, calm and reserved character off the pitch, which, although made him very popular with his teammates,  led some pundits to accuse him of not being as effective at directing his back-line.

Because of his stocky physique, Peruzzi was given the nicknames "Tyson" in reference to the boxer Mike Tyson's similarly powerful build, and "The Boar" ("Cinghialone," in Italian).

Coaching career
After his retirement, Peruzzi worked in the Italy national team staff as one of Marcello Lippi's collaborators. He was then appointed Ciro Ferrara's assistant on the Italy under-21 team and in 2012 followed him in joining Sampdoria in Serie A.

Club

 * 1 Including 1 match in season 1999-00 UEFA Champions League qualification.

International

 * Appearances and goals by national team and year

Honours
Juventus
 * Serie A: 1994–95, 1996–97, 1997–98
 * Coppa Italia: 1994–95
 * Supercoppa Italiana: 1995, 1997
 * UEFA Champions League: 1995–96
 * UEFA Cup: 1992–93
 * UEFA Super Cup: 1996
 * Intercontinental Cup: 1996

Lazio Italy Individual Orders
 * Coppa Italia: 2003–04
 * Supercoppa Italiana: 2000
 * FIFA World Cup: 2006
 * Guerin d'Oro: 1997
 * ESM Team of the Year: 1996–97, 1997–98
 * Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year: 1997, 1998, 2007
 * ITA OMRI 2001 Uff BAR.svg 4th Class / Officer: Ufficiale Ordine al Merito della Repubblica Italiana: 2006

 * [[Image:Friedrich Order.png|left|50px]] CONI: Golden Collar of Sports Merit: 2006

title: Angelo Peruzzi


text:
User talk:Delbanana

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- Infrogmation 15:18, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Delbanana


text: User talk:66.107.121.215

title: User talk:66.107.121.215


text:
User:Volpec

This is my first Wiki page. I find it very interesting.

title: User:Volpec


text:
Moville

Moville is a coastal town located on the Inishowen Peninsula of County Donegal, Ireland, close to the northern tip of the island of Ireland. It is the first coastal town of the Wild Atlantic Way when starting on the northern end.

Location
The town is located on the western shore of Lough Foyle, approximately 30 km from Derry, which lies across the border in Northern Ireland. Features include a pier and small working harbour; and Moville Green, a large seaside park in the Victorian style which features bandstands, a putting green, walking trails, playgrounds, a coastal footpath and views east across the waters of the lough to Northern Ireland. Moville is close to several beaches, and receives visitors and daytrippers in the summer months.

The town is in the civil parish of Moville Lower. This alternative Irish language version of the place name, Maigh Bhile, which means “plain of the ancient tree”, is one possible origin of the English language name.

Moville Community College is located to the south of the town centre, in the townland of Carrownaff.

History
In the second half of the 19th century, Moville was a point of embarkation for travellers, especially emigrants, to Canada and the United States of America. In the late 19th century, steamships of the Glasgow-based Anchor Line and Allan Line made port at Moville while en route to and from New York, while just after the turn of the 20th century, the Canadian Pacific Line also established a terminal at the port as part of their service connecting Liverpool and Montreal for Canadian-bound Irish immigrants. Today, the town receives little maritime traffic but retains a small fishing harbour. The commercial fishing port at Greencastle lies a few miles away.

The ancestors of Field-Marshal Bernard Montgomery, the Montgomerys of New Park, were a landed family of the town. When flying over the town in 1947 he commented: "It looks just the same. My dear old Irish home". His grandfather Robert Montgomery had built Montgomery Terrace in 1884.

Festivals
An annual regatta is held at Moville every year and has done so since early in the 19th century.

Several music festivals take place in the area annually, including a festival of Bob Dylan music (DylanFest) which has taken place on the last weekend in August since 2007, and a festival of Beatles' music (BeatlesFest) which takes place on the August bank holiday weekend at the start of the month.

Notable people

 * Sir Robert Montgomery (1809–1887) – British colonial administrator who was born in Derry and initially raised in Moville; He was the grandfather of the Second World War military commander, Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery.
 * Henry Montgomery (1847-1932) – Church of England cleric who served as Bishop of Tasmania, 1889-1901, and Prelate of the Order of St Michael and St George from 1905. Born in what was then Cawnpore in India, he was the son of Robert Montgomery and father of Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery. He inherited New Park in Moville in 1887, later retiring there. He died in 1932 and was buried in Moville.
 * Sheila McClean (1932–2016) – painter
 * Damien Faulkner (born 1977) – racing driver
 * Art Parkinson (born 2001) – actor

title: Moville


text:
Template talk:History of Germany sidebar

Changes
A few changes that I think should be made:

 * Military history during World War II is part of Nazi Germany and should not be here.
 * There should be an article that deals with the two German states (East and West) which would replace the History of Germany since 1945
 * The last entry should be the Federal Republic of Germany.

Oberiko 15:28, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Franks
Franks was originally part of this template. Why has it been removed? -- Petri Krohn 01:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Background colors
I just fixed what I believe was a mislink that was a leftover from a template migration. I also noticed that the background colors of each line of the template switch seemingly randomly from white to grey. I was wondering if the each title (Ancient times, Building a nation, etc) should be one color and the entries another, or if each full section should alternate colors. I'd be glad to do the work if someone agrees with one of those methods. Craig R. Nielsen 04:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

November Revolution
I removed the November Revolution, because in difference to the other parts of the list, this "Revolution" is no period of time. This template can not include every single event of the German History.--Thw1309 14:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure about adding it either, but it was worth trying - I was thinking of something to cover the transition period between the end of the Empire and the actual start of the Republic (a 4-month gap). No problem. - 52 Pickup 14:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

German colonial empire
Should we add link to German colonial empire into the template? 96.229.179.106 (talk) 21:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No. -- ℜob ℂ. alias ⒶⓁⒶⓇⓄⒷ 23:34, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Kingdom of Germany
No such country at the time, nothing was named like this prior to HRE, as template suggests. Kingdom of Germany as a link is useful for the medieval heading. Mootros (talk) 16:48, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Lead image
The current coat of arms of Germany is not representative for the whole history of the country/region. See also the template for France for example, or China, etc. The current coa can be used for government templates for example. Are there suggestions what could be used that would be more representative. Gryffindor (talk) 07:39, 29 April 2017 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Parish

1975
I beleive the parish represents primarily a political or secular system of land division which has been adopted by churches. In Britain the parish was a subdivision of the traditional county until local government was reorganised in 1975. The boundaries of a secular parish may not be now those of any church parish, and churches of different denominations may have different parish boundaries. Laurel Bush 15:23, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC).

But in England, weren't the pre-1975 parishes equivalent to Church of England parishes? john k 15:34, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I imagine the C of E tended to follow secular practice. Or, as the established church, was well placed to negotiate agreement with secular government. My main point is that the parish system of land division had (and has now in some respects) a very secular dimension, and this tends, at present, to be obscured by the article. (I believe in England, actually, parishes survive in many areas for the purpose of electing parish councils.) Laurel Bush 15:47, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC).

Parishes have had secular meaning, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse. In pre-modern days, the most reasonable way to divide up a large unit like a county was based on church parishes, since everyone belonged to one. So they came to be used as a political division because they were already religious divisions. The OED entry on "Parish" supports this, I think. john k 17:13, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Havent seen the OED entry, but I believe the idea of a parish is Latin, predates any established church, and was in use before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its religion. Laurel Bush 09:58, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC).

I think it is important for you both to read this article which makes it clear that, prior to 1894, the parish meeting (or vestry as it was called) was the church government for each ecclesiastical (and ancient) parish. The article points out that the vicar was always chairman, and that only the squire and ratepayers (ie the well-off) appeared on it. In 1894 this changed; although it was still skewed in that direction. In 1972 the present system came into being. I think that this Wiki article needs considerable amendments to supply the facts given in the reference. Peter Shearan 19:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Structural issues
The civil parish section of this article is paralleling Civil Parish and a wider main article. In addition there is the question of the relationship between parish and Township, which is not adequately explained by that article. There are two difficulties: Both these are important, but we need to consider how best the articles may be structured, to avoid parallel articels developing separately, each with an independent life of its own. This is liable to lead to contradictory articles! Comments please. Peterkingiron 14:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The worldwide coverage of some of these articles.
 * The need to focus on the institution in England (and other parts of Great Britain), whiere the parish remains an active minor local government institution.
 * Little seems to have been done since I made the above comment, but some one has drawn my attention to it, on the basis that the article began life as "Ecclesisatical Parish". We also have Parish (country subdivision), which provies a good survey of the different applications of the term around the world.  I wonder whether the best course might not be for:

Comments please. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This article to revert to "ecclesiatiscal parish", but shorn of civil sections
 * Parish (country subdivision) to be renamed "parish", possibly with the civil sections of this article being merged in if necessary.
 * Civil Parish to be shorn of international aspects and confined to England (or perhaps Great Britain).

 * I agree. I have added appropriate templates.  Each of the three articles should be on distinct topics.  Ad.minster (talk) 15:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Rights of parishes (and dioceses)
The article could perhaps a add a section on the rights and privileges of parishes with regards to the diocesan community, and/or the relationship of dioceses with the Universal Church. For instance, every time there is some kind of liturgical reform, some parishes resist or refuse to follow the reform either by claiming that the parish has this right or that the community within the parish has the equivalent right. These claims have always been quite a challenge to Church organization and canon law, and so they would deserve to be further discussed. ADM (talk) 14:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This will depend on the legislation of each national denomination. This is likely to differ between the the Catholic Church after the counter-reformation and Protestant churches, and between one Protestant denomination and another.  Peterkingiron (talk) 11:06, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

What is the (Modern) Greek word for parish?
Just asking. --Daniel Blanchette 02:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Eνορία (enoria). A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 15:03, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Methodism
The first two paragraphs in the Methodism section are constructed as if they present contrasting practices, yet they seem to say the same thing:A history search shows that these originally were in two separate sections, and when it was in its own section (on the African Methodist Episcopal Church) the paragraph began, "Like the United Methodist Church, the African Methodist Episcopal Church has a Bishop [...]." The sense that the second paragraph presents a contrasting practice appeared as an artifact of the combination of the two sections, so I am going to combine the two paragraphs into one.--Jim10701 (talk) 19:55, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

--aslo, the "circuit" came to largely replace, or supplement, the parish and diocesan structure in importance in early British and American Methodism.

Continental Protestantism
This article needs a section on continental and Scandinavian protestant churches. In much of Reformation Europe, as in England, the parish retained something of its pre-reformation status as geographically designated ecclesiastical unit: in Germany a Pfarr- or Kirchengemeind (different designations and different relationships to the territorial Landeskirche across Germany). And in Calvinist Geneva and the Netherlands the new system of church discipline was superimposed on the old parochial grid to a large degree. The status of the parish varied across Protestant Europe (i.e. it's relation to supra-parochial ecclesiastical authority, its civil-administrative significance etc) and changed over time as well. But it may be worth looking into the details in order to complete this page. I'll add info when I find it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.60.225 (talk) 20:21, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Yes, it would be great if you could contribute this information. Amandajm (talk) 01:33, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Rewrite
I was looking for the definition of "parish" as used in the 17th century Church of England. Then I see such phrases "so it shares its roots with the Roman Catholic system described above" and "each parish should have its own parish priest" and "perhaps supported by one or more curates or deacons". C'mon, who wrote this? I call it a cop-out i.e. the author had no idea what he was writing about. Let's jettison this uninformative article and get someone who can write about "parish" clearheadedly and concisely. Dangnad (talk) 02:43, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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What I wanted to see in a write-up about "parish"
I originally came here to learn a bit more about parish vs town in 17th-18th century Massachusetts Bay Colony (See my post above "Rewrite"). All I saw was a lot of nonsense. Since then I found exactly what I wanted. The following is an excerpt from Quabbin, The Story of a Small Town by Francis Underwood, 1893.

A “town” in Massachusetts is a small republic, or a corporation erected by statute in certain fixed limits, and exercising powers established and defined by a general law… “Township” is not a native term, and, so far as it has any meaning in Massachusetts, refers to the territory of a town. The town…maintains within its boundaries roads, bridges, and schools, and supports its poor, if there should be any having a legal settlement. Formerly it was obliged to provide for the military drill and equipment of its able-bodied citizens of legal age. Formerly, also, it elected the minister, voted his salary, and raised the amount by taxation, like other town charges; for in early times the town and parish were one (my emphasis). Later, the notion of the town was that of a corporation for civil purposes; and of the parish, a corporation for religious purposes; in many cases both corporations covered the same area. If a town was large and became populous, it might be divided (for religious purposes solely) into two or more parishes. A “church” means such persons as have made a prescribed profession of faith and experience, and have united under a covenant. A church-member, unless non-resident, was necessarily a member of the parish, but the reverse was not necessary.

Furthermore, a "parish" in the State of Louisiana, USA is the equivalent of a county in other US states. As far as I know, there is no religious function for a parish in Louisiana. Dangnad (talk) 02:48, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:40, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Hasfield Parish Church.jpg

title: Talk:Parish


text: User talk:208.33.179.241

title: User talk:208.33.179.241


text:
Friedrich Wetter

Friedrich Wetter (born 20 February 1928) is a German cardinal of the Catholic Church. He was Archbishop of Munich and Freising, Germany, from 1982 to 2007. He was Bishop of Speyer from 1968 to 1982. He has been a cardinal since 1985.

Early life
Wetter was born on 20 February 1928. He studied first in Landau and then from 1948 to 1956 at the Sankt Georgen Graduate School of Philosophy and Theology and at the Gregorian University in Rome, where he obtained a doctorate in theology. In 1953, he was ordained a priest in Rome by Cardinal Cardinal Clemente Micara.

He was a chaplain in Speyer from 1956 to 1958 and taught at the seminary there from 1958 to 1960. He was assistant parish priest for a year in Glanmünchweiler, and then taught as Professor of Fundamental Theology in Eichstätt from 1962 to 1967 and as Professor of Dogmatic Theology at the Johannes Gutenberg University of Mainz in 1967 for a year.

Bishop and cardinal
On 28 May 1968, Pope Paul VI appointed him bishop of Speyer. He received his episcopal consecration on 29 June from Bishop Isidor Markus Emanuel, his predecessor in Speyer.

Pope John Paul II named him Archbishop of Munich and Freising on 28 October 1982 and he was installed there on 12 December.

While Archbishop of Munich and Freising, he chaired the Freising Bishops Conference and from 1981 to 2008 he chaired the faith commission of the German Bishops' Conference.

He was made a cardinal by Pope John Paul on 25 May 1985, with the title of Cardinal-Priest of Santo Stefano Rotondo.

In October 2004 he protested that objections to the appointment of Rocco Buttiglione to the European Commission represented anti-Catholic bias, saying that Catholics like Konrad Adenauer, Robert Schuman, and Alcide de Gasperi, founders of the European Union, would now be excluded from its leadership. Buttiglione, a conservative Catholic nominated to handle issues of civil liberties and discrimination, had promised that his personal views would not interfere with his work, but members of the European parliament found his views on homosexuality and the proper role of women in society disqualifying.

He was one of the cardinal electors who participated in the 2005 papal conclave that elected Pope Benedict XVI.

Pope Benedict accepted his resignation on 2 February 2007. He continued there as apostolic administrator until the installation of Reinhard Marx as his successor on 2 February 2008.

The January 2022 report on the handling of cases of sexual abuse on the part of priests in the Munich archdiocese accused Wetter of "mishandling" 21 cases during his tenure as archbishop and administrator. Wetter defended his actions in detail and disputed much of the report; he admitted fault in one case in particular that the report addressed at great length. He apologized for failing to listen to victims of abuse and recognizing how abuse affected them and their families.

Works (selected)

 * Die Trinitätslehre des Johannes Duns Scotus (= Beiträge zur Geschichte der Philosophie und Theologie des Mittelalters, file 41, H. 5), Aschendorff, Münster 1967, (Thesis of Habilitation, University of Munich, Munich, Theological Faculty, 28. Oktober 1965).

title: Friedrich Wetter