text:
User:Kurando-san/FPC

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FPC for Kurando-san
I've noticed your bot has been moving FPC older than 14 days. Would it be possible to extend its operations on FPC? I understand that it wouldn't be able to determine if an image should become featured, but it could do the rest. What I was thinking was this:
 * For old nominations, we can manually determine if it should be promoted, and place the phrase "PROMOTED FILENAME.JPG" or "NOT PROMOTED" on a new line in that subpage, and move the link to the subpage to the bottom of the current archive (link to that archive is determined by: Featured pictures candidates/July-2024
 * Your bot could then determine if it was promoted or not, and do the following:
 * If FILENAME.JPG has or  in its summary, remove that tag and replace with, else just add the  tag. Any other images displayed on the subpage should have their  or  removed if present.
 * Add the following new line to Goings-on, below the line which reads:  Pictures that gained "featured" status
 * *NAME_OF_SUBPAGE (July 29)
 * (where NAME_OF_SUBPAGE is the name of the subpage where the FPC took place, without the prefixed text: Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/
 * Add the following new line to Featured pictures thumbs, below the first occurrence of --> on the page:
 * [[Image:FILENAME.JPG|100px|NAME_OF_SUBPAGE]]
 * Determine the person who nominated the image by either grabbing their first sig on the subpage, or (probably better) grabbing the first edit of that subpage
 * Determine the person who uploaded the image (probably should use the most recent upload of the file; the one at the top).
 * Add the following new lines to the bottoms of these two individual's talk pages:
 * ==FPC==
 * If the subpage says "NOT PROMOTED", remove the or  from any of the images displayed on that subpage (people might on occasion link to an image, so be careful; [[:Image versus [[Image ).
 * If the subpage says "NOT PROMOTED", remove the or  from any of the images displayed on that subpage (people might on occasion link to an image, so be careful; [[:Image versus [[Image ).

This would cut our workload by a large amount, and all we would have to do is make sure we put "PROMOTED FILENAME.JPG" or "NOT PROMOTED" at the end of the subpage, and list the promoted pic on Featured pictures visible and Featured pictures. I think this is all the work you would have to do, but I may have missed something. -- brian0918 ™  02:28, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'll add those features if and only if you can give me some kind of code or point me in the right direction that allows me to find out the first contributor of the page. -- AllyUnion (talk) 03:01, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * To get the first contributor, I guess what you would do is take the URL for the subpage, append to that url: ?action=history&limit=500
 * Then take the last name on that page (look for the last occurrence of   and the user's name is immediately after that, in the following text: ''' <a href="/wiki/User:USERNAME"
 * Will this work? You can reply here if you want. -- brian0918  ™  03:23, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well... granted it is a safe assumption that no FPC nomination will have more than 500 edits, my only issue is what do you do in the event that it isn't? -- AllyUnion (talk) 03:38, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * You can set the limit to whatever number you want. limit=5000 should be plenty. :)   brian0918  ™  03:39, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Okay, and you want the bot to check how often? Every hour or what? -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:58, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how often the bot should check. Say that I add several new entries to the bottom of the page all at once, will it be able to tell that all of those need to be checked?  What if I move the subpage links to the archive page, but have not yet added "promoted" or "not promoted" text to their pages when your bot checks them for changes.  How will it handle those? -- brian0918  ™  05:01, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Remember, it's checking below the Nominations older than 14 days, the minimum voting period, decision time! section and it will automatically remove those which have been promoted and not promoted. Question is whether you prefer them to be removed at all once or one by one (with an indicating comment of it's status). -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:12, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

By the way, I found some code in the pywikipedia framework, so I can get the bot to do this fairly quickly. -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:58, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

One more thing... "Promoted" and "Not Promoted"... that seems kind of, well, troublesome to search for. I will need to make several clear assumptions to ensure against abuse and the like. The only assumptions I can make now are: the status of the picture will always be the last line, and before the status will be the three quotes indicating the status is bolded. Are those okay assumptions? What other assumptions can I make? The comment from the edit history? -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:06, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you can assume they will be bold.. people might forget. Maybe you can just look for the last occurrence of "promoted" or "not promoted" in the page? -- brian0918 ™  05:10, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * See, I need to make safe assumptions to guard against vandalism. -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:12, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * We can always add in hidden text, so we could add at the end: or for promoted or not. -- brian0918 ™  05:15, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It would be a lot easier if there was a template or something that did something like fpcresults|Promoted|+9|-0. -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:18, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It can be done however you want. A template would be easier for everyone, just make sure it included the filename for FPC's which had more than 1 image to choose from.  So fpcresults|Promoted|filename.jpg or something. -- brian0918  ™  05:22, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and create the template to how you like it to appear, update the instructions on the WP:FPC page, update your suggested process (above) and then get back to me. I'm still programming Mgm's bot at the moment, but if you get everything straighted out, I can finish your bot relatively quickly. -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:28, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * This all sounds like a good idea. It can be a bit of a chore to promote an image now that the procedures have grown (not promoting is still quite easy :-)
 * But I would like to see a couple of things. First, instead of polling on a regular interval, would it be possible have the bot triggered on a push by the editor choosing to close the vote. I guess that would mean the bot would have to be hosted somewhere, a little like Kate's tools.
 * Second, if this isn't already done, I would want to see the bot's code publicly available. As with most things on Wikipedia, FPC is still evolving (we only got the {PromotedFPC} template a month ago) and I would imagine we will have changes in the promotion procedure in the future which would need to be reflected in the bot.
 * It also has to be open to manual over-ride (but making it a push triggered bot would do that). Everynow and again there is candidate which won't fit the pattern or is odd in some way. A recent example would be Root Canal where major changes were made to the candidate as the vote was being closed, so we had to extend the voting time to ensure the new version was seen by everyone. Other wrinkles could be ironed out after the bot has run. For example animated gifs have to placed in a different section of FPC-thumbs, overly wide or tall images usually need display width adjustments on FPC-visible.
 * Good luck. -- Solipsist 07:54, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Aren't you asking a bit featured heavy now? Next thing you're going to tell me that you want a web form with this and that and plus 5 more options. -- AllyUnion (talk) 14:11, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was hoping for 10 more options. :) I'd just go with my request for now.  It's alright to add animated GIFs to the wrong section, it won't break the article, and people will figure out where they're supposed to go.  It's not like we get that many animated GIFs.  -- brian0918  ™  14:20, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah sorry no, I was meaning wrinkles such as animated gifs and image widths could be sorted out manually after the bot has run. They are the exception rather than the rule. The only real point is that you need the leeway to stall a promotion, or choose not to run the bot and do the whole thing manually. That way if/when someone creates an unusual style of FPC in the future the bot won't automatically try and push a square peg in a round hole. If it has to be a polling bot, then choosing not to add a nomination-closed template might be a way of preventing the bot from running. -- Solipsist 14:39, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's what I had in mind. -- AllyUnion (talk) 14:42, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bot considerations
Computer programs can not understand natural language like we do. It can read text based on some assumptions, but that is about it. -- AllyUnion (talk) 14:30, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Determining if a candidate has been closed
Fullying understanding that closing discussions is a manual and user job (not done by the bot), we must outline and describe the assumptions made by the bot in order to determine the state is closed. -- AllyUnion (talk) 14:30, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Line of questioning:
 * 1) Does an administrator always close the candidate nomination?
 * No, ideally anyone should be able to follow the instructions at the bottom of the FPC page to close a nomination. People tend to assume it is an administrator doing it, but in practice its about 3 or 4 regulars on FPC who do it. Closing a nomination takes some discretion to tally the votes, particularly when there are multiple images or versions to consider. -- Solipsist 14:58, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Breaking apart the request
In order for me to visualize and code the request, I need to break the request into the smallest generalized ideas as possible.

 * Poll the candidates under the 14 day line hourly.

 * Check if the candidate has been closed.

Further discussion
Well, your bot can move them below the 14 day line, but it won't be closed until we manually move it to the archive and add the fpcresult template to the page. -- brian0918 ™  14:45, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Alright, I created Template:FPCresult and changed the rules at the bottom of Featured picture candidates. I've used the template on the last 2 FPC's in the April archive. -- brian0918 ™  22:24, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Going to assume if there is no Image: after the second pipe (|) that it was not promoted. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:30, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * There's a chance someone might forget the "Image:" part, or add the Image:FILENAME.JPG despite the image not being promoted, so I'd go on whether or not there's a "not" after the first pipe. If there is a "not", then do not promote. If there isn't a "not" then check if the first thing after the 2nd pipe is "Image:".  If it isn't there, then you'll have to append Image: to get the URL for the image.  -- brian0918  ™  22:33, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, how about this: .  If A does (not have 'no' or 'not') and ((B or Image:B) exists) then promote the image.  Otherwise, don't do anything. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:39, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah I was about to suggest that, although make sure all the FPC or fpc are removed from the image summaries even if they're not promoted. -- brian0918 ™  22:41, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * If A does have 'no' or 'not' then do the failed candidate stuff. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:43, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Also I believe that the bot should change the template to subst after it's done. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:43, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, good idea. -- brian0918  ™  22:52, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New discussion
I'm ready to start this bot. Now, I just have to figure out what to do first. -- AllyUnion (talk) 09:10, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Pseudocode, step by step process
This is a layout of what the code must do, line by line. -- AllyUnion (talk) 09:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * 1) Get the page: Featured picture candidates
 * 2) Process the page for " "
 * 3) Process listed candidates by using regular expression matching to match: " "
 * 4) Stop processing until it sees " " or ==Nomination for removal==
 * 5) In a loop, process the list of subpages:
 * (should any of these steps fail, skip the subpage and go to the next one)
 * 1) Move the nomination entry to the bottom of Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/CURRENTMONTH-CURRENTYEAR (maybe... maybe not... several steps are left out of the picture - maybe only do for non-promoted ones?) Look for the {{FPCresult first, and only move the nominations which have had the tag added
 * 2) Get each subpage that has been processed from prior steps
 * 3) Use regular expression matching to find: " "
 * 4) Split the string containing " " using " " as the delimiter.
 * 5) Uh-oh!  Problem: What happens if there is more than one nominating image that is promoted?  Are they separated comma delimited or what? There should only be one promoted image from any nomination. If ever that is not true we can do a manual promotion
 * 6) Determine whether or not the candidate has been promoted.
 * 7) * If candidate is promoted, do the following:
 * 8) From the third pipe, attempt to get the filename.
 * 9) Then search the subpage for the filename, best match as possible.
 * 10) Update the picture's tag, replacing {{FPC}} with  {{FeaturedPicture}} , and remove {{FPC}} from alternatives of the promoted image.
 * 11) Presume the nominator is the first contributor to the subpage and get the first contributor by looking at the history list with a limit of 5000 edits.
 * 12) Notify the nominator by placing  {{PromotedFPC|file_name.xxx}}  on the person's talk page. For example: {{PromotedFPC|Blue morpho butterfly.jpg}}
 * Specifically, section title would be something like: FPC Automatic Notice: IMAGENAME Promoted - I think the {{PromotedFPC tag is usually added to a talk page without a section title.
 * 1) * If candidate is not promoted, do the following:
 * 2) For all image links on the subpage, remove the {{FPC}} tag. It is not uncommon to find that people haven't added the {{FPC}} tag to an image under consideration, in which case do nothing

What other things will the code be doing? Will it put the image on Goings-on, on Featured picture thumbs? What about Featured pictures and Featured pictures visible? Your bot could do the first two, and for the last two, it could list the images under a new temp header called "Newly promoted images" for others to sort into the proper categories. As for your "Uh-oh!" problem above, I don't think it will be a problem. I haven't seen a submission where more than one image was promoted. You could have them be separated by a comma, but if anything is wrong, you can just have the bot skip it, and someone can manually promote those (since they'll be extremely rare). -- brian0918 ™  21:37, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * There are problems regarding those steps of the process. I will highlight it below. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Add the image to Goings-on - latest on top
 * Problem: The link of the image needs a proper name. Where do you get the proper name that describes the link for the picture?  Example: A bumblebee -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Add the image to Featured pictures - note the two sections (wikipedian / non-wikipedian)
 * Problem: It does not know where to place this photo, also has same problem as the name problem as above. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Add the image to Featured pictures visible - note the two sections (wikipedian / non-wikipedian)
 * Same problem as Featured pictures. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Add the image to Featured pictures thumbs
 * Where will it get the alternative text for the image? -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:31, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For the Featured pictures and Featured pictures visible pages, you can list the images under a new temp header called "Newly promoted images" for others to sort into the proper categories. For the proper name and alternative text, you can just use the name of the image, without the extension. -- brian0918 ™  22:39, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Mostly looks good, I've added a couple of comments to the pseudo code in italics. You might consider adding any error message to the nomination page following the {{PromotedFPC| tag, if you meet an unexpected condition and can't continue processing, e.g. 'Kurando-san:file_name.xxx not found, can't add {FeaturedPicture} tag. Or anything to give a clue that someone should check the promotion.
 * The bigger issue is the additions to Goings-on, Featured pictures, Featured pictures visible and Featured pictures thumbs. As AllyUnion says, the real problem here is that they all require additional information. One solution would be to use more parameters on the {{PromotedFPC| tag
 * {{PromotedFPC|file_name.xxx|ImageTitle|UsedOnPage|PhotoCredit}}
 * {{PromotedFPC|Chicago top down view.png|Downtown Chicago plan|Multilevel streets in Chicago|SPUI}}
 * {{PromotedFPC|Static jump.jpg|Parachute jump|parachuting|Airman Chris Otsen United States Navy}}
 * You still wouldn't be able to chose the appropriate section for Featured pictures & Featured pictures visible, but just adding a promotion to the bottom of the page with the correct formatting would be a significant help. -- Solipsist 08:23, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Well... You could use a special template located in the bot's User space... -- AllyUnion (talk) 10:10, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Technically, it would be better to delete the promoted template entirely, and just use a specifically well-formatted HTML comment. Something like:
 * and so on. -- AllyUnion (talk) 10:14, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Both of those would probably work. And certainly replacing the template would be a good way of ensuring that Kurado-san didn't try and promote an item twice. The only thing I would have against it is that if someone new came along and started closing nominations, one of the first things they would try (hopefully after reading the instructions) would be to copy the pattern from a previous closed nom. If the template had been replaced it might be confusing for them. But that is a minor point, not likely to happen often, they could still find the template in the closed nom's history, and I believe there are performance benefits in removing transcluded templates. -- Solipsist 07:25, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That would be alright with me. You still would have to have the bot put the new images under a ==Newly featured== temporary header at Featured pictures and Featured pictures visible, but that's fine.  -- brian0918  ™  13:40, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Formalization of Bot's Processing comment.
Search for: ''' -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:48, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The image "Filename.jpg" will get a title of "This is the example file" while "Smiley.jpg" will get a title "A smiley" for their links.
 * 1) nominator
 * Purpose: To notify the nominator of the image.
 * Required for notification.
 * Usage: n=USERNAME
 * The User: in front of USERNAME should never be used, unless they have an odd username like: User:User:This person is a user or what not.
 * 1) category
 * Purpose: To place on the correct category
 * Valid categories are:
 * Aeronautics
 * Anatomy
 * Architecture
 * Artwork
 * Astronomy
 * Biology
 * Chemistry
 * Culture
 * Drawings and diagrams
 * Entertainment and lifestyle
 * Mathematics
 * Nature
 * Animals
 * Phenomena
 * Plants
 * Weather
 * People
 * Places
 * Daytime
 * Maps
 * Mountains
 * Nighttime
 * At Sunset
 * Panorama
 * Weapons
 * 1) type
 * Purpose: To define whether if the image is Wikipedian or Non-Wikipedian.
 * Usage Examples:
 * ty=w
 * ty=nw
 * 1) thumb
 * Purpose: To notify the bot which thumb page to place this on.
 * Usage: th=03
 * This tells the bot that the current page of the thumbs is page 03, and the title of the page is Wikipedia:Featured pictures thumbs 03.
 * This also saves the bot from getting an additional page.
 * 1) date
 * Purpose: To specify the date of nomination or promotion or whatever for Goings-on
 * Usage example: d=May 1
 * 1) gif
 * Purpose: To notify the bot that the image is an animated gif
 * Optional, required only if the image is an animated gif.
 * Usage examples:
 * gif
 * gif=1
 * gif=y
 * gif=yes
 * Purpose: Ends the HTML comment, ends the bot's processing of text.
 * Always required
 * Always required

Note: Should there be multiple images, and several are promoted and several are not promoted, here is a sample usage: -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:25, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
 * What does the bot do:
 * By promote it does the above necessary steps.
 * Promotes a.jpg, b.jpg, c.jpg with the linking titles of A, B, C respectively.
 * Promotes aa.jpg, ab.jpg, ac.jpg with the linking title of A*.
 * Removes the tag off images d.jpg, e.jpg, f.jpg
 * Notifies User:Mr. Nominator that a.jpg, b.jpg, c.jpg, aa.jpg, ab.jpg, ac.jpg have been promoted
 * Places all promoted images under the category of Images created by Wikipedians, Aeronautics
 * Places a thumb on Featured pictures thumbs 03
 * Places a thumb on Featured pictures thumbs 03

Logging processing results
Additionally, as a further idea, the bot will post what data it parsed to it's User subpage, specifically something like: User:Kurando-san/FPC Log/2005 May 08. On this page it will spit out a Wiki-table, nicely formatted, the processed commands and list what page it did it for. -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:42, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Something like:

Discussion about the commands/options/etc
The Date command will apply basically to the last set of images from the last date command. Same with the title command. -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:43, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 * That looks just fine. I think you need another couple of params for the promoted image;
 * b for by to set the photo credit. |b=Airman Chris Otsen United States Navy|
 * u for used at. |u=parachuting|
 * The only bit that confuses me is the specification of multiple images. Typically only one image is promoted and needs a title etc., any other images in the nomination just need their FPC tag removing (assuming someone had actually managed to add it in the first place). It would be best if these other images were identified automatically from the body of the nomination. If they need to be listed in the Kurando-san comment, it would probably be better to use a different param, say 'd' for de-list.
 * Can Kurando-san follow redirects? If so, we could ditch the thumb parameter and just follow Featured pictures thumbs which should always point to the latest thumbs page.
 * There may also be some wrinkles on the specification of categories for the FP and FPvisible pages. The simple bit is, I would personally prefer ty=f for 'Found by Wikipedians' rather than nw for Non-wikipedians. On the main categories themselves. Do you envision handling this as a lookup table? That would work, but the categories are somewhat mutable (I just added a History section this weekend) so you would still need a failsafe of dumping the new image in an 'Unknown' section at the bottom of the page.
 * I think I would probably prefer using the whole first word for a category - it doesn't take much more typing and is easier to remember (so Entertainment rather than Ent and we can change 'At sunset' to 'sunsets'). Better yet, if Kurando-san can read the sections on the FP page, it could just be the first section that matches the start of the cateogry specified (so 'cul', 'cult' or 'culture' would work). If nothing matches, dump it in 'Unknown' at the bottom.
 * These are just thoughts - pick and choose any bits that seem useful. Ignore anything where I'm rambling too much. -- Solipsist 07:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm going to tear and quote you, and reply to each one of your points.
 * The only bit that confuses me is the specification of multiple images. Typically only one image is promoted and needs a title etc., any other images in the nomination just need their FPC tag removing (assuming someone had actually managed to add it in the first place).
 * Typically. Yes, but you have to understand my programming philosophy, which is to permit the broadest of cases and allow for the broadest of features in the event that is needed.  Why write something that covers case 1, when you can write something that covers cases 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... ???
 * It would be best if these other images were identified automatically from the body of the nomination. If they need to be listed in the Kurando-san comment, it would probably be better to use a different param, say 'd' for de-list.
 * The option list above is aiming for an idea which is: "Apply this option for all next related options until it sees the same option"
 * Okay, the reason I'm discussing this format is that it should be easy for me to program, something easy for someone else to use, and less work on me, the programmer, and you the promoter. Now, I don't know how much programming expertise you have so, forgive me if I dumb this down.  First, I will explain a few things about the background of the bot, programming languages and machine read code.  Natural languages are nearly impossible for a bot to process.  The closest thing that a machine or a programming language has is regular expressions.  Secondly, the bot's principle language is Python.  The pywikipedia framework, written in Python, for the bot is what I use to get and post a page.  The only gripe I have about Python is that its regular expression support is lacking and it sucks.  More accurately, I hate it... it's incomplete, it doesn't do what I want it to do, it doesn't have the features that I need in order to do what I need to do, etc.  My solution was to use Perl.  Perl's regular expression support, features, and functionality is one of the best I've seen.  However, I personally like to keep a task for a bot one particular language.  Not to mix languages.  Unforuntately, I don't know any English Perl modules that provides the same amount of support as the pywikipedia framework.  In otherwords, there is no existing Perl code that I know that lets me the same ease and use as the pywikipedia framework.
 * Now that I've explained my whole grip with this, let me explain why I designed the above format like how it is. By specifying   , I effectively restrict my search domain.  In plain English, I don't have to look for anything extra beyond that.  Why is this important?  Because, on a nomination page there is a lot of text that is dates, signatures, wikicode, comments, etc... stuff that the bot does not need to read.  Cutting the fat helps the bot from going nuts and spend more time on processing text.  This is the reason for such a complex system.  However, I can program the bot to read all the images from the page and any one of those not in the Kurando-san comment will be automatically delisted.  However, as a programmer, I always question and must always question the exceptions... the rarest of cases that may happen.  I also want the bot to complete the tasks with the fewest steps as possible, in addition to the fewest queries to the server.  (More about that in a bit).  What happens if an image is part of someone's signature?  I don't want to spend the extra time to look for that exception, nor do I want the bot to spend the extra time to query the server for an extra image page which does not need to be delisted.  Furthermore, it adds an extra layer of complexity if a person's wiki image link is a current nomination that has not been placed in the 14 day min.  Rare as the case may be, it still must be considered.
 * -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:19, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Can Kurando-san follow redirects? If so, we could ditch the thumb parameter and just follow Featured pictures thumbs which should always point to the latest thumbs page.
 * As I wrote above: This also saves the bot from getting an additional page. No offense, I know my comments are long, and that you may or may not be skimming, but I would appreciate if you double check my comments.  The Wikipedia is slow, specifying a page is much faster.
 * Let me explain my logical reasonings behind this:
 * The bot can do three things: 1) Always get the redirect page for each and every candidate; 2) Always get the redirect page for all the candidates; 3) Never get the redirect page
 * Under case 1, this means that for each candidate, the bot will make a request to the Wikipedia servers to get the redirect page, and process the information for the page it should place the thumb on.
 * Under case 2, this means that for the first candidate, the bot will make a request to the Wikipedia servers to get the redirect page, and process the information for the page it should place the thumb on and for all future candidates it is processing until it's done for this one session. By session, I mean for that day/week/month (whatever the duration between the times that the bot should process the page) that the bot runs the particular script on processing candidates which are older than 14 days.
 * Under case 3, the bot will never need to get the redirect page, and never worry about the redirect page.
 * Furthermore, this allows the bot to move on to the next thumb page easily... and/or can create the next thumb page. So, let us say for example there are nominations A, B, C.  A, B can go on page 03, then C can be placed onto the new page 04 automatically created by the bot since the bot can't find the page.
 * -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:19, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 * There may also be some wrinkles on the specification of categories for the FP and FPvisible pages. The simple bit is, I would personally prefer ty=f for 'Found by Wikipedians' rather than nw for Non-wikipedians. On the main categories themselves. Do you envision handling this as a lookup table? That would work, but the categories are somewhat mutable (I just added a History section this weekend) so you would still need a failsafe of dumping the new image in an 'Unknown' section at the bottom of the page.
 * The idea is that it will default into brian's suggested section should it can't find what it's looking for.

 * I think I would probably prefer using the whole first word for a category - it doesn't take much more typing and is easier to remember (so Entertainment rather than Ent and we can change 'At sunset' to 'sunsets'). Better yet, if Kurando-san can read the sections on the FP page, it could just be the first section that matches the start of the cateogry specified (so 'cul', 'cult' or 'culture' would work). If nothing matches, dump it in 'Unknown' at the bottom.
 * Again, I apologize but if you had read my statement above, it indicated that the bolded letters are the shorthand of the title, command, category, etc. In otherwords, it will accept both the long version (must be the complete long version) of the title or the shorthand version.
 * -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:19, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Objections...???
I mean, if you think that thumbs option is a really lame idea, then please tell me that but offer me the alternative solution and please be specific. I mean, I could make the thumbs option an optional thing... if it doesn't specify a thumbs, get the redirect page and use that as the default... But without an option from you, I really don't know what to do. It is, after all, you and brian primarily the ones who will be using this bot assisted feature. -- AllyUnion (talk) 03:01, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Ally, in truth some of the principle users to consider are the unknown future Wikipedians who will hang around FPC. Brian and I just know how we do things at the moment. As I said above, what you have looks fine, my comments were just additional thoughts to consider. I appreciate that it is a fair bit of effort to program a bot to work reliably and it is not necessarily easy to strike the balance between keeping a process simple enough so that people will use it and avoiding feature creep that will make the bot too complicated to write. -- Solipsist 06:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * While I understand that there will be future Wikipedians who will be doing this, if they want an extra feature or going to change something, they can let me know. For the moment, I'm considering you and Brian to be my clients and that I am tailoring this program for you both.  Of course, the above information will be left well documented somewhere for someone to find it. -- AllyUnion (talk) 07:57, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

 * That's fine (side-note User:BrokenSegue has also been handling FPC promotions recently). -- Solipsist 08:12, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

My two cents (if it even matters at this late in the game) is that this sytem is quite nice if not a bit complicated. It may make it harder for newbies to promote articles without having memorized the categorization system (the real issue). Hopefully I'll turn out to be wrong. Some ideas that strucK me are. I think that most of thses changes will make the coding more difficult and you have allready offered to do enough work. I don't how this will turn out, I hope for the best, so I leave it to your judgement how to implement this bot. It looks like a great project in either case. BrokenSegue 02:39, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Why must we tell the bot the date? Can't it retrieve the date (presumably it runs every hour or every day or something)?
 * 2) Can't the nominator be found by checking the first edit to the page (I realize that the code may not allow for this, just a thought)
 * 3) What will happen to the articles we have allready tagged with the special template? Did they serve no purpose?
 * 4) If there is only one image on the page couldn't we leave off the filename and let the bot assume the filename? (I read above that itseems to be a programming problem)
 * 5) Not all of those categories (weapons for example) exsist for both W and NW. Will this cause a bug?
 * 6) Why should the code to the bot be a comment? We should show the onlookers in what way it was promoted (in a table? Similar to the one made above but smaller?) Or, the bot could turn the comment into text and put it on the picture's page, eliminating the need for a seperate log page.

Answers to BrokenSegue's questions: I put it into a comment is that this is background stuff. You don't need to see the full command line or the actual code being run when you save to the Wikipedia do you? -- AllyUnion (talk) 23:14, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) I don't know how the date is selected when it is placed on Goings-on which is why I had that.  If I had an idea of which date you're referring to, then yes.
 * 2) Assuming that there aren't more than 500 edits or 5000 edits... I forgot the limit that the restricted.
 * 3) Which special template?  Oh, you mean the nomination one?  That template will be deleted over for this new system.
 * 4) Presuming it is linked properly, it could do it...  I suppose if the bot doesn't see any image parameters and it says promoted, it will assume that all images on the page have been promoted with whatever defaults its been given.
 * 5) Good eye!  I didn't see that.  That can be easily fixed.  We can just add the section anyway and make it uniform.  Either that or not include it and default it into the "Unknown" category.
 * 6) Why should onlookers see this stuff?  The bot is to assist in promotion.  It will not do the tally or the results which still need to be placed on the page.
 * Sounds good. I think we can assume that no nomination will ahve more than 5000 edits. Also the date on the goings on page is the date that picture was promoted. The bot could just independently know the date and promote pics once every 6-12 hours or so (all with the same date). BrokenSegue 23:42, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well... Depends on how you want to view it.  Does promotion mean when someone came around and tallied the votes up or when the bot does its work?  If it is the former, I can have the bot assume that the last edit of the page is the date to use.  If it is the latter, then I can have the bot just get the current date of whatever time it's running. -- AllyUnion (talk) 07:16, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I should just make it the date the bot runs, which is probably easiest. Going's On summarizes activities over the week, so it is really just the date that the mention of the promotion gets added to that page. In practice there isn't likely to be much difference in the dates, and I doubt anyone would worry about it. -- Solipsist 10:53, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Won't the bot run at least once a day? If so then the date on the promotion should be equal to the date of bot's actions + or - time zones and the time it takes the bot to run. This diference is too small to worry about in my view. BrokenSegue 16:17, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay. Your comments have been noted, and I'll start slowly programming this together. -- AllyUnion (talk) 08:34, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

FPC bot
Discussion moved from Bot requests

I was hoping that someone could write a bot to automatically do certain functions at Featured picture candidates. Fairly simple stuff like two days after listing move from the comments only section to the voting section and then two weeks later move from the voting section to the decision section, from there it would of course have to be taken up by a human to decide whether it passes or not. I don't think this would be that hard to accomplish since as far as I know something fairly similar is being done on vfd by a bot. Jtkiefer T - 05:05, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * On my "to-fix list". See also: User:Kurando-san/FPC. --AllyUnion (talk) 05:32, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * What I was hoping for was a stripped down version of this since this seems a little over the top, plus it eliminates pretty much all editor activity on FPC. I think at the time a bot to move the entries automatically would be sufficent since there are a number of users who have no problem doing the rest of the work.  Jtkiefer  T - 07:07, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * The basic part was to move into the 14 day category, I can tack it to do the 2 day easy... just the whole UTF-8 encoding is the problem. --AllyUnion (talk) 08:27, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Kurando-san restored. --AllyUnion (talk) 21:59, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Kurando-san/FPC


text:
User:StephanZehrer

Stephan Zehrer

 * [ http://www.zehrer.net ]

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:StephanZehrer


text:
Electribe

Electribe is a group of electronic musical instruments by Korg. From its beginnings with the Electribe R to the ESX-1, this series includes both analogue modeling synthesizers and sampling drum machines that can be programmed the same as a drum machine. The analogue modeling synth and sampling drum machine both share a drum-pattern section and a synth-pattern section, whereby the user can not only program drum patterns, but also synth and basslines. These hybrid machines could be considered 'grooveboxes'.

The launch party for the product in 1999 was announced with a recorded CD invitation that was featured in Entertainment Weekly magazine as one of the best party invitations of the year.

Models

 * 1st generation - Released 1999-2000
 * EA-1: Analog Modeling Synthesizer
 * ER-1: Rhythm Synthesizer
 * ES-1: Rhythm Production Sampler
 * EM-1: Music Production Station

 * 2nd generation - Released 2003-4
 * EA-1 mkII: Analog Modeling Synthesizer
 * ER-1 mkII: Rhythm Synthesizer
 * ES-1 mkII: Rhythm Production Sampler (using SmartMedia storage. Maximum size card recognized is 64MB)
 * ESX-1: Music Production Sampler (using SmartMedia storage)
 * EMX-1: Music Production Station (using SmartMedia storage)

 * 3rd generation - Released 2010
 * ESX-1SD: Music Production Sampler (Identical to the ESX-1, but using Secure Digital (SD) storage)
 * EMX-1SD: Music Production Station (Identical to the EMX-1, but using Secure Digital (SD) storage)

 * iPad application
 * iElectribe: an app for the iPad
 * iElectribe: an app for the iPhone
 * Electribe Wave: an app for the iPad and iPhone

 * 4th generation - Announced Sept 2014
 * electribe: Music Production Station (using SD Card storage) http://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/electribe/
 * electribe sampler: Music Production Sampler (using SD Card storage) http://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/electribe_sampler/
 * Electribe ER1 VST, as part of the Korg Collection released in November 2022.

title: Electribe


text:
User talk:CQJ/Cumbey RFC/Solution

Please do not revert. This page is being used to work on a Solution within the Cumbey RfC.

title: User talk:CQJ/Cumbey RFC/Solution


text:
Category:Kigali

 * Kigali is the capital city of Rwanda in Central Africa.

title: Category:Kigali


text:
Sophia (wisdom)

Sophia (, —"wisdom") is a central idea in Hellenistic philosophy and religion, Platonism, Gnosticism and Christian theology. Originally carrying a meaning of "cleverness, skill", the later meaning of the term, close to the meaning of ("wisdom, intelligence"), was significantly shaped by the term  ("love of wisdom") as used by Plato.

In the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church, the feminine personification of divine wisdom as Holy Wisdom (Ἁγία Σοφία; ) can refer either to Jesus Christ the Word of God (as in the dedication of the church of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople) or to the Holy Spirit.

References to in Koine Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible are translated from the Hebrew term.

Greek and Hellenistic tradition
The Ancient Greek word (σοφία) is the abstract noun of σοφός (sophós), which variously translates to "clever, skillful, intelligent, wise". These words share the same Proto-Indo-European root as the Latin verb sapere (lit. '"to taste; discern"'), whence sapientia. The noun σοφία as "skill in handicraft and art" is Homeric and in Pindar is used to describe both Hephaestos and Athena.

Before Plato, the term for "sound judgment, intelligence, practical wisdom" and so on—such qualities as are ascribed to the Seven Sages of Greece—was (φρόνησις), from  (φρήν, lit. 'mind'), while  referred to technical skill.

The term (φιλοσοφία, lit. 'love of wisdom') was primarily used after the time of Plato, following his teacher Socrates, though it has been said that Pythagoras was the first to call himself a philosopher. This understanding of permeates Plato's dialogues, especially the Republic. In that work, the leaders of the proposed utopia are to be philosopher kings: rulers who are lovers of wisdom. According to Plato in Apology, Socrates himself was dubbed "the wisest [σοφώτατος, sophṓtatos] man of Greece" by the Pythian Oracle. Socrates defends this verdict in Apology to the effect that he, at least, knows that he knows nothing. Socratic skepticism is contrasted with the approach of the sophists, who are attacked in Gorgias for relying merely on eloquence. Cicero in De Oratore later criticized Plato for his separation of wisdom from eloquence. is named as one of the four cardinal virtues (in place of ) in Plato's Protagoras.

Philo, a Hellenized Jew writing in Alexandria, attempted to harmonize Platonic philosophy and Jewish scripture. Also influenced by Stoic philosophical concepts, he used the Koine term (λόγος) for the role and function of Wisdom, a concept later adapted by the author of the Gospel of John in its opening verses and applied to Jesus as the Word (Logos) of God the Father.

In Gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the soul, but also simultaneously one of the emanations of the Monad. Gnostics held that she was the syzygy of Jesus (i.e. the Bride of Christ) and was the Holy Spirit of the Trinity.

Christian theology
Christian theology received the Old Testament personification of Divine Wisdom (Septuagint, Vulgate Sapientia). The connection of Divine Wisdom to the concept of the Logos resulted in the interpretation of "Holy Wisdom" as an aspect of Christ the Logos.

The expression Ἁγία Σοφία itself is not found in the New Testament, even though passages in the Pauline epistles equate Christ with the "wisdom of God" (θεοῦ σοφία). The clearest form of the identification of Divine Wisdom with Christ comes in. In, Paul speaks of the Wisdom of God as a mystery which was "ordained before the world unto our glory".

Christology
Following 1 Corinthians, the Church Fathers named Christ as "Wisdom of God". Therefore, when rebutting claims about Christ's ignorance, Gregory of Nazianzus insisted that, inasmuch as he was divine, Christ knew everything: "How can he be ignorant of anything that is, when he is Wisdom, the maker of the worlds, who brings all things to fulfillment and recreates all things, who is the end of all that has come into being?". Irenaeus represents another, minor patristic tradition which identified the Spirit of God, and not Christ himself, as "Wisdom". He could appeal to Paul's teaching about wisdom being one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. However, the majority applied to Christ the title/name of "Wisdom".

Constantine the Great set a pattern for Eastern Christians by dedicating a church to Christ as the personification of Divine Wisdom. In Constantinople, under Justinian I, the Hagia Sophia ("Holy Wisdom") was rebuilt, consecrated in 538, and became a model for many other Byzantine churches. In the Latin Church, however, "the Word" or came through more clearly than "the Wisdom" of God as a central, high title of Christ.

In the theology of the Eastern Orthodox Church, Holy Wisdom is understood as the Divine Logos who became incarnate as Jesus; this belief being sometimes also expressed in some Eastern Orthodox icons. In the Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church, the exclamation or in English Wisdom! will be proclaimed by the deacon or priest at certain moments, especially before the reading of scripture, to draw the congregation's attention to sacred teaching.

There is a hagiographical tradition, dating to the late sixth century, of a Saint Sophia and her three daughters, Saints Faith, Hope, and Charity. This has been taken as the veneration of allegorical figures from an early time, and the group of saints has become popular in Russian Orthodox iconography as such (the names of the daughters rendered as Вѣра, Надежда, Любовь). The veneration of the three saints named for the three theological virtues probably arose in the 6th century.

Iconography
The Christological identification of Christ the Logos with Divine Wisdom is strongly represented in the iconographic tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church. A type of icon of the Theotokos is "Wisdom hath builded Her house" (Премудрость созда Себе дом), a quote from ("Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars") interpreted as prefiguring the incarnation, with the Theotokos being the "house" chosen by the "hypostatic Wisdom" (i.e. "Wisdom" as a person of the Trinity).

Christian mysticism
In Russian Orthodox mysticism, Sophia became increasingly indistinguishable from the person of the Theotokos (rather than Christ), to the point of the implication of the Theotokos as a "fourth person of the Trinity".

Such interpretations became popular in the late nineteenth to early twentieth centuries, forwarded by authors such as Vladimir Solovyov, Pavel Florensky, Nikolai Berdyaev, and Sergei Bulgakov. Bulgakov's theology, known as "Sophianism", presented Divine Wisdom as "consubstantiality of the Holy Trinity", operating as the aspect of consubstantiality ( or, substantia or natura) or "hypostaticity" of the Trinity of the three hypostases, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, "which safeguards the unity of the Holy Trinity". It was the topic of a highly political controversy in the early 1930s and was condemned by the Russian Orthodox church as heretical in 1935.

Within the Protestant tradition in England, Jane Leade, seventeenth-century Christian mystic, Universalist, and founder of the Philadelphian Society, wrote copious descriptions of her visions and dialogues with the "Virgin Sophia" who, she said, revealed to her the spiritual workings of the Universe. Leade was influenced by the theosophical writings of sixteenth century German Christian mystic Jakob Böhme, who also speaks of the Sophia in works such as The Way to Christ. Jakob Böhme was very influential to a number of Christian mystics and religious leaders, including George Rapp, William Law, and the Harmony Society.

Personification
Sophia is not a "goddess" in classical Greek tradition; Greek goddesses associated with wisdom are Metis and Athena (Latin Minerva). By the Roman Empire, it became common to depict the cardinal virtues and other abstract ideals as female allegories. Thus, in the Library of Celsus in Ephesus, built in the 2nd century, there are four statues of female allegories, depicting wisdom (Sophia), knowledge (Episteme), intelligence (Ennoia) and valour/excellence (Arete). In the same period, Sophia assumes aspects of a goddess or angelic power in Gnosticism.

In Christian iconography, Holy Wisdom, or Hagia Sophia was depicted as a female allegory from the medieval period. In Western (Latin) tradition, she appears as a crowned virgin; in Russian Orthodox tradition, she has a more supernatural aspect of a crowned woman with wings in a glowing red colour. The virgin martyrs Faith, Hope, and Charity, with their mother Sophia are depicted as three small girls standing in front of their mother in widow's dress.

Allegory of Wisdom and Strength is a painting by Paolo Veronese, created c. 1565 in Venice. It is a large-scale allegorical painting depicting Divine Wisdom personified on the left and Hercules, representing Strength and earthly concerns, on the right.

Modern reception
A goddess Sophia was introduced into Anthroposophy by its founder, Rudolf Steiner, in his book The Goddess: From Natura to Divine Sophia and a later compilation of his writings titled Isis Mary Sophia. Sophia also figures prominently in Theosophy, a spiritual movement which Anthroposophy was closely related to. Helena Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophy, described it in her essay What is Theosophy? as an esoteric wisdom doctrine, and said that the "Wisdom" referred to was "an emanation of the Divine principle" typified by "…some goddesses—Metis, Neitha, Athena, the Gnostic Sophia…"

Since the 1970s, Sophia has also been invoked as a goddess in Dianic Wicca and related currents of feminist spirituality.

The 1979 installation artwork The Dinner Party features a place setting for Sophia.

There is a monumental sculpture of Holy Wisdom depicted as a "goddess" in Sofia, the capital of Bulgaria (the city itself is named after Saint Sofia Church). The sculpture was erected in 2000 to replace a statue of Lenin.

title: Sophia (wisdom)


text: Category:Political parties in Jersey

title: Category:Political parties in Jersey


text:
Crescent Arts Centre

The Crescent Arts Centre (or simply The Crescent) is an arts centre based in Belfast, Northern Ireland, founded in 1980. The centre hosts a wide range of arts and entertainment events, as well as classes in dance, music, verbal and visual arts, and community outreach programmes. Its facilities include a dance studio named after its late patron, the choreographer and Holocaust survivor Helen Lewis. The centre is home to the annual June Belfast Book Festival.

The Crescent is housed in the former Victoria College on University Road in the Queens Conservation Area. The current patron of the centre is Paul Muldoon.

Refurbishment
The Victorian-era listed building was extensively refurbished between 2008 and 2010. In September 2008, then Minister of Culture Arts and Leisure, Gregory Campbell, announced the awarding of capital funding to allow refurbishment of the University Road site to get underway. The total cost would be £7.2million. The Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure provided £4.5million; the Arts Council of Northern Ireland £1.45million; the Heritage Lottery Fund £447,000; and the then Environment and Heritage Service £525,900. The Crescent itself contributed £236,000 and has appointed fundraising consultants to raise the rest.

title: Crescent Arts Centre


text:
Jimmy the Greek (restaurant)

Jimmy the Greek is a quick service restaurant franchise serving Greek and Mediterranean cuisine. In 1963, Jim Antonopoulos from Nafplio, Greece, arrived in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He started the Epikourion, Exquisite Greek Restaurant & Bar in First Canadian Place of the busy Bay Street district of Toronto. The success of the restaurant spun off the current franchise which now has over 50 locations across Canada in Alberta, & Ontario, including more than 50 in the Greater Toronto Area. There are also locations in Dubai, UAE. Its outlets are almost exclusively located in the food courts of office towers and AAA malls. Their menu offers a variety of Greek plates, including chicken and pork souvlaki, schnitzel, lamb dishes, calamari, moussaka and more. They also offer pitas stuffed with different items, traditional Greek style. Additionally, they provide catering services for large parties.

title: Jimmy the Greek (restaurant)


text:
Talk:Bambara language

Untitled
I think we can remove the stub template now. Perhaps one of you (feel free, Guaka ;-)) could add a section about the grammar; if that is done, there are imho no reasons left to call this thing a stub. (Excuse my humble command of English) Caesarion 09:18, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not bad, and improved since I last checked. It might not be a stub (if a stub is an article of only two or three paragraphs); but it's certainly still in need of expansion. It should have more on grammar; more on classification; more on dialects; more on geography and demography; more on phonology; more on morphology (basic word structures etc.); and it should have a references section (see Verifiability). On the day that we are going to make it a Featured article, it should also have a nice map and some sound samples :) — mark ✎ 13:30, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * All this is true, of course, but I felt the "stub"-notice as in implicit insult to all of them who did so much work for it. But anyway, it should be expanded, as should so many other articles. Caesarion 15:02, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Language infobox
I miss the language infobox and information about the language family to which the Bambara language must belong. Perhaps someone (perhaps Guaka) can add these. Meursault2004 14:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Good point, I've added it. By the way, the article already stated that Bambara is one of the Mande languages. — mark ✎ 14:56, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you! Yes I also read that the article says that Bambara is a Mande language. But I didn't know that it is a Niger-Congo language. I thought it was a Nilo-Saharan language. Meursault2004 15:43, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

"Accents can be used to indicate tonality"
Which accents for which tones? What about nasality? And vowel length? Evertype 17:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

There's no tonal notation in the practical orthographie. Nasality is marked by letter "n" following the vowel. Vowel length is marked by doubling the letter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.134.33.131 (talk) 07:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Context-free
I've pulled out the following pending verification:
 * In mathematical linguistics Bambara is regarded with interest, since for only very few languages it was possible to show that they were not context-free. For Zurich German and Dutch the proof is based on sentence construction, whereas the proof for Bambara is based on word construction.

I think we need a reference for that, and even then I doubt the relevance to this particular article. It's more of a nice factiod for context-free grammar. — mark ✎ 09:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Christopher Culy: The Complexity of the Vocabulary of Bambara. In: Linguistics and Philosophy, 8. Springer (Kluwer, Reidel), Dordrecht 1985,, p. 345–351 (PDF; 297 kB) — Sascha Brawer (talk) 20:01, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

language name
The name of this article needs to be changed, please. The term 'Bambara' floating around in other articles as an alternative name can still link to the new correctly titled article. The name of the ethnic group is the BAMANA and the language is BAMANA (English, German) or BAMANANKAN (lit. 'Bamana sound') in the native language. The term BAMBARA is pejorative on several levels. It's a mispronunciation by the Colonial French (and therefore smacks of colonialism) and has stuck in much of French literature as well as art circles. However, this article is English wiki, and Americans and British anthropologists, sociologists and LINGUISTS call the language BAMANA. The term BAMBARA meant 'riverworking / hardworking *slave*' during the slave trade in Senegal, used by the whites and the Wolof to refer to the Bamana, Boso, Kagoro, etc. And, BAMBARA literally means in Fula (and has connotations in other West African languages) 'pagan, infidel' as the Fula converted many other ethnic groups to Islam. Many Fula still consider the Bamana as 'bad muslims.' The term BAMBARA is tinted with racsim, colonialism, ethnic hatred/distrust and religious tension. Professionals call the language and its speakers the same term that those speakers do. The article's name needs to be changes. Using BAMBARA in Wiki is like titling a page Beaner or Yank or Lapp or Polack or Limey. Change it. 71.210.91.4 (talk) 02:34, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll post this issue to the MANSA-L list (of the Mande Studies Association), because I think the issue may not be as clear cut as you imply. I think the case for endonyms - as you put it "Professionals call the language and its speakers the same term that those speakers do" - is sometimes overstretched and many now recognize that it is not always appropriate and sometimes even awkward. Where a pejorative association is clear, I think we'd all agree that the change should have no question - we say "Soninke" and have long before Wikipedia dropped "Saracolle" for this reason. I'm not arguing against the change so much as asking for more clarity before it be considered. My understanding is that "Bambara" came into the European languages via Fula pronunciation (Bammbaraajo/Bambaraaɓe), but that it does not "literally mean in Fula (and has connotations in other West African languages) 'pagan, infidel'" (although it sounds a bit like a derivative of the root for carrying on the back - wammb-). The history of the term is no doubt complex and I'd suggest more discussion before any attempt to move the articles.--A12n (talk) 14:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

The first paragraph here about the language name changing is in fact legitimate. Why tell this person that the issue is not as clear-cut as he/she implies?? Lapp and Saami mean basically the same thing, but one is much more correct/acceptable than the other. I've been to Mali twice, and speak some Bamanankan. The name of the people is Bamana and their language is Bamanankan. The term Bambara/Bambera **does** have negative connotations, and can often imply 'pagan'. The reason there is little clarification about this by Bamana people to French, British, and American tourists and researchers is complex. Correcting a stranger is seen as rude, for one. For another, the ubiquitous and important use of joking relationships in Mali (and other Mande countries) --between clans within an ethnic group and caste, between castes within the same ethnic group, and even between ethnic groups-- very very often uses jokes related to being current or former slaves, being current or former infidels, etc. To a Bamana person, hearing a tubab(u) (white person) call them the term Bambara is a subtle sign of pride, showing that they can take the joke/insult. Also, of course, it's not literally thought of as a true insulte, as they assume "stupid" whites from Europe or North America don't know any better. Well, we should (and some do) know better. This needs to be changed. 75.175.174.14 (talk) 02:32, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Number inconsistency
It says in the first line that there could be as many as six million speakers, then in the info box it mentions 4 million native speakers and 8-10 million second language speakers. I'm not an expert, but this doesn't seem to add up. Could whoever who knows more about this than I do fix it so that viewers aren't confused? Alázhlis (talk) 22:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

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Need glosses for examples
I don't have the expertise myself, but it would be helpful if someone who did could gloss each word of the Bambara using linguistic conventions (instead of the "literal" translations). Alázhlis 09:36, 29 December 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alázhlis (talk • contribs)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:21, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
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title: Talk:Bambara language


text:
Category:Government of Scotland

This category is about the government of Scotland across history. For the modern Scottish Government, see Category:Scottish Government.

title: Category:Government of Scotland