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Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria/Archive5

The China-Taiwan mess
My apologies for breaking the page hierarchy - hopefully temporarily - but please bear with me. This whole mess doesn't easily fit under either deletion or addition.

After long and at times frustrating wrangling over at tfd, an interesting fact has emerged as relates to the whole China/Taiwan business. The way the stub categories are organised is as follows: However, what has actually happened is that Taiwan-stub contains 75 articles, of which all but seven are geo-stubs. If they were in the category they should be in, we'd have a very full China-geo-stub category and an almost empty Taiwan-stub category.
 * 1) China-stub (for non-geographic stubs relating to China in general and/or mainland China in particular)
 * 2) Taiwan-stub (for non-geographic stubs relating to Taiwan a.k.a. RoC)
 * 3) China-geo-stub (for geographical articles about either country/area/place)

I would like to propose the following (and no doubt Instantnood will suggest improvements :)
 * 1) Sino-stub (for non-geographic stubs relating to either China. The HK categories would also be subcategories of this)
 * 2) RoC-geo-stub (or Taiwan-geo-stub, for geographical stubs relating to you-know-where)
 * 3) PRC-geo-stub (for geographical stubs relating to P.R. China )

Comments gratefully received. Grutness|hello? 11:39, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Makes sense, but please call it Taiwan-geo-stub. The term RoC just confuses people - I hadn't even come across it before seeing Wikipedia and I doubt I'm the only one, jguk 13:13, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with Jguk here. Susvolans (pigs can fly) Did you know that there is a proposal to treat dissent from naming conventions as vandalism? 13:32, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * My hope was to call it Taiwan-geo-stub... other have been pushing to name it RoC, though 9see looong discussion on tfd). I'm pretty sure the term RoC is very rare except in Taiwan itself. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]
 * I agree that they should be China and Taiwan, with Sino-stub relating to culture. --YixilTesiphon 02:54, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * I was actually about to creat a Taiwan-Geo stub category before this mess/debate blew up. I wish that I had fixed the categorizing problems and properly sort the Taiwan-related and Taiwan-Geo stubs earlier. As for the current proposal, I am not certain that social/historical events occured in Taiwan should be categorized into Sino-Stub either. The Dutch period certainly shouldn't. The Japanese rule period shouldn't either. It is even disputable that ROC rule in Taiwan is absolutely illegal and does not conform to international laws. Let alone the PRC's claim. The aboriginal people in Taiwan continued practicing head hunting even during the Japanese rule in the 20th century. Though the some Chinese people did imigrated to Taiwan, it does not make the island part of China. (Just like the Chinese imigrants in the U.S. would not turn U.S part of China either.) I think Taiwan, which is enriched with its own culture and history distinct from China, should have a Taiwan-stub in addition to the proposed Taiwan-Geo Stub. I would stand neutral if the Taiwan stubs were put under China stubs as long as we remind the readers about the political status of Taiwan in the China-stub pages. With the whole truth and nothing but truth being presented in these mess/sensitive areas, readers would make their own educated judgement on this topic.Mababa 04:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Given that there are only currently seven stubs in Taiwan-stub that would fill this new category, it's simply not enough to warrant a separate category. It would be a sensible idea to put a NPOV comment about the relationship between China and Taiwan at the top of the stub category, however (putting it actually in the template could be a bit messy). If you can think of a term that will cover everything which could currently be called "China P.R." and "Taiwan" nicely and simply without confusing anyone, please do so. I suggested the term "Sino" to avoid people saying "Yes it is X...no it isn't X... here have a look at these pages, they'll prove that technically it should be X even if no-one calls it X... if it's X what about the offshore islands...". Taiwan is what 99% of people around the world call it, and it would be confusing to call it anything else (as has already been shown by a small minority of people using China-geo-stub correctly - clearly very few people considered that taiwan was "China", and instead considered it Taiwan). But technically, if you were the most pedantically pedantic of pedants, you wouldn't accept that name. Similarly China... what do we mean by that term? "Mainland" China (which includes non-mainland Hainan)? The People's Republic of China? The Republic of China? Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 08:28, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Mainland China includes Hainan, like Continental United States does, say, Long Island. Interestingly, it excludes Alaska on the same continent. These terms are always more confusing than the words suggest. :-D — Instantnood 18:14 Feb 25 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, in many parts of the world and for many purposes Alaska is regarded as part of the continental United States - as the article points out. It's just not part of the contiguous United States. Not that that's got much to do with Taiwan. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]
 * Hmm.. right. It's much like something to do with Hainan. — Instantnood 19:12 Feb 27 2005 (UTC)
 * I understand there are some guidelines specifically for stub categories, such as number of articles needed, and some of the mess must have to be solved here. The controversy, however, is currently discussed on several related pages, including WP:RM, WP:TFD and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese). — Instantnood 18:22 Feb 25 2005 (UTC)

 * (response to Grutness) Thank you for your comments. With you comments, I am glad that someone understand the plight and also familiar with what is really going on in this MESS. :) However, I personally do not favor the suggestion using Sino-stub for Taiwan's non-geo related articles. Today, a pro-Chinese unification news paper in Taiwan announced the percentage of Taiwanese recognize a separate identity other than Chinese has reached a historical high. Only 14% of the Taiwanese residents thinks themself to be more a Chinese than a Taiwanese. In other words, the majority of Taiwanese do not recognize themself as Chinese. Moreover, if the language/culture origin dictates the usage of the Sino-tag, then should we include Singapore (a country with 77% of Chinese population) as well? Then we could have US-stubs under Britain-stub. Furthermore, the current Mandarin culture was enforced with military power brought by ROC government which arguably does not have legitimate sovereignty over Taiwan since 1945. Culture is really not a reason. The whole world celebrate Christmas or Santa Clous, and no one really thinks himself as Jewish or Turkish.

 * In my opinion, I think it would be a good idea to have PRC and ROC stub categories to tag political related stub articles. And we can have Taiwan and China stubs to tag non-political related articles. Of course, Taiwan can be put under the cap of China/or sino-stub if we note the political status of Taiwan in the China-Stub category and thus do not bias against the 23 million Taiwanese people. With the low number of Taiwan stubs, we should simply tag them as stubs, rather than put them under Sino-stub, which is the synonym to the China-stub. The number of Taiwna-stubs could be easily solved by scouting for short articles or creating new articles. Is it really that imperative to include these Taiwan-related stubs under China/Sino stub right now or perhaps we can simply tag them as Stub-stub and wait for 100 Taiwan-related stubs to initiate one Taiwan-stub?Mababa 04:42, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * In many parts of China people consider their local identities more important than the national identity, as each of the different places has its own language, culture, cuisine and lifestyle. I would say people on Taiwan are on a further extreme, owing to Taiwan's unique location and history. Hong Kong people also possess some sort of self-recognition and consider themselves different from the people in the mainland. They won't be hestitant to say they are ethnically Chinese, but many of them would probably be reluctant to say their citizenships are Chinese (which implies they are citizens of the PRC). Possessing a local identity does not necessarily means they are untied with the rest of the nation.

 * For some countries ordinary stubs and geography stubs are tagged with the same template, and grouped under the same category. Perhaps the same can be done with the ROC at the time being. — Instantnood 19:24 Feb 26 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, I have just came to realize that Taiwan-related stub contains almost >70 Taiwan-geo stubs which would almost warrant creating a Taiwan-geo-stub.Mababa 07:28, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * (response to jguk and Susvolans) "Taiwan" and "Republic of China" are not the same, although geographically they overlap considerably. — Instantnood 06:58 Feb 25 2005 (UTC)

Just a little bit of information. For people who are interested to know why it was so controversial about all these titles, you can read the following articles or sections and get some clues: Republic of China, Political status of Taiwan, Taiwan Province, Quemoy, Matsu Islands, Lienchiang, Taiping, People's Republic of China, Mainland China, Taiwan (as an island), Political divisions of China, Legal status of Taiwan, History of Taiwan, History of the Republic of China, Chinese civil war, Taiwan under Dutch rule, Administrative divisions of the Republic of China and Template:WTO. — Instantnood 06:55 Feb 25 2005 (UTC)

Foreign relations of the Republic of China, UN General Assembly Resolution 2758, Taiwan Relations Act and China and the United Nations — Instantnood 18:50 Feb 25 2005 (UTC)

Pratas Islands — Instantnood 08:59 Feb 28 2005 (UTC)

Chinese Taipei, Chinese Taipei and China Airlines — Instantnood 09:41 Mar 4 2005 (UTC)

Fukien Province — Instantnood 18:55 Mar 4 2005 (UTC)

 * If it's good enough for the BBC, it's good enough for me.    Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 06:03, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm.. Perhaps you'll be interested to read about the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese). — Instantnood 08:59 Feb 28 2005 (UTC)

 * I have - please note the following statement on the latter of those pages: The terms "China" and "Taiwan" are perfectly acceptable in non-political contexts to designate geographic regions, e.g. "culture of Taiwan" or "languages of China". Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 09:46, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Right. "Culture", and "cuisine" as well, are very good example that they're on the extreme end and almost have nothing to do with any government, and are not related to the outlying islands of the ROC which are not part of Taiwan. This is not the case for articles such as geography, demographics and economy, which involves the government's territorial claims, statistics compiled by the government, trade issues and official title used by the delegation to the WTO, respectively. Non-Taiwan-related aspects of the ROC complicated the issue. There was a debate on whether Quemoy and Matsu should be included in the article Geography of Taiwan.  — Instantnood 12:26 Feb 28 2005 (UTC)
 * ...geography, by definition, is the method of referring to geographic things. Such as the designation of geographic regions. Thus geography automatically qualifies under the statement I listed. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 22:41, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Regime comes and go. Taiwan last forever. Geographic Taiwan should be kept as an separate article from the Republic of China.Mababa 07:28, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * (response to Grutness) You're implying Wales and territorial claims can be included in an article titled "Geography of England"? Well.. to repeat, territories under ROC's control = Taiwan plus something. :-P — Instantnood 11:07 Mar 1 2005 (UTC)
 * No. Wales and England have a long-established border agreed upon and accepted by both the British Government and the Assembly of Wales, so to do that would be as ridiculous (especially on St. David's Day!). What I'm suggesting is that if Gozo can be included under Geography of Malta, New Territories under Geography of Hong Kong, St George's under Geography of Bermuda, Rathlin under Geography of Ireland, Isla de Pinos under Geography of Cuba, Marie-Galante under Geography of Guadeloupe, the Aegadian Islands under Geography of Sicily, Juan de Nova under Geography of Madagascar, Maria Island under Geography of Saint Lucia, the Goat Islands under Geography of Jamaica, Pelican Island under Geography of Barbados, Gaspar Grande under Geography of Trinidad and Tobago, and Surtsey under Geography of Iceland - when none of these places are part of the island or islands named in the title of the article, then - in exactly the same way - Matsu can be included under Geography of Taiwan. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 12:53, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * It is because Taiwan is not the name of any country (well, at the time being). Cuba, Babardos, Trinidad and Tobago, etc. are all countries, while Taiwan is not. Marie-Galante and Aegadian Islands are both geographically and politically part of the département d'outre-mer of Guadeloupe and the autonomous region of Sicily respectively. Taiwan can be an island, and can be a province. The island or the province is the main component of the territories under ROC's control. But Taiwan isn't the ROC, or vice versa.
 * Some islands are part of Taiwan, with little dispute, to name a few, Pescadores, Orchid Island and Green Island. Some are not, e.g. Quemoy, Wuchiu, Matsu, Taiping, Pratas. Quemoy, Wuchiu and Matsu are part of Fukien province, and are on the other side of the strait, i.e. closer to the coast of the continent. All these islands are, like Taiwan, components of the territory currently under ROC's control.
 * Taiwan becomes the common reference to the ROC because 1) it is the main component of the territory under ROC's control, 2) many countries which have diplomatic relations with the PRC cannot call it the ROC officially, 3) the PRC considers itself the sole legitimate government of China, 4) China usually means the PRC, to many people, and 5) the pro-independence people in Taiwan favour it.
 * One more thing: the New Territories is not an island or a group of islands. :-D — Instantnood 15:09 Mar 1 2005 (UTC)
 * I never said they were. But if you want to restrict this extensive list to islands then I'm quite happy to make that Tsing Yi or Lantau. If you wish to restrict the argument to political control over islands not technically part of the same province, then a comparison might be that UK-geo-stub contains articles about the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, despite neither being part of the United Kingdom. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 00:01, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Topics about the Channel Islands sounds to be a much better example for comparison. But they are crown dependencies of the United Kingdom, sort of an extension of it. Some islands of the ROC are not part of Taiwan, and Taiwan doesn't have possession. Whatever the discussion here ends up, I can compromise on the title of the template. My bottom line is the texts inside the templates, and the titles of the categories. — Instantnood 00:25 Mar 2 2005 (UTC)

Is any consensus ever likely?
It's now been a very long week since I put this here. My original suggestion was China-geo-stub, Taiwan-geo-stub, and Sino-stub. It would be nice to split the non-geo items into two, one for each of the two "Chinas", but with only seven non-geographic items relating to Taiwan/RoC, and with a substantial overlap likely in any historical items, it seems difficult to work out how that could be achieved. It would be nice to reach some form of consensus, or at the very least a decisive majority, one way or the other as regards the geo-stubs though. Can I suggest that we purely and simply put our favoured names for two separate geo-stubs down (preferably in the form X-geo-stub), with a minimum of debate and counter-debate (that has surely gone on long enough), and see whether we're anywhere near some kind of decision? (My vote is still China-geo-stub and Taiwan-geo-stub). Grutness|hello? 13:10, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Basically agree, and you know well about my vote, Mainland China-geo-stub and ROC-geo-stub. — Instantnood 15:15 Mar 1 2005 (UTC)
 * I am in favor of the simpler "china-geo-stub" and "taiwan-geo-stub". When you start talking in technical political terms, the stub templates become less useful because the average person has trouble using them. -Aranel (" Sarah ") 16:48, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I can compromise on having redirects at template:china-geo-stub and template:taiwan-geo-stub to template:mainland china-geo-stub and template:roc-geo-stub, or the other way round, to avoid the trouble. My vote on geostubs for the texts of the templates, and the categories they link to remains "ROC.." and "Mainland China..". — Instantnood 18:42  Mar 1 2005 (UTC)
 * I can compromise on "Republic of China (Taiwan).." or "ROC (Taiwan).." too, for the texts of the templates and the titles of the categories of geostubs. — Instantnood 01:34 Mar 1 2005 (UTC)

Here's an idea. They are geographical region stubs, are they not? Taiwan refers to the little island. China refers to the thing part of Asia. We leave the political stuff related to either of them out of it. Okay? -- AllyUnion (talk) 08:42, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Well it's in fact much more complicated than many people might think. If the PRC wasn't broken off from the ROC in 1949, there would be little doubt that Taiwan is part of China (the geographical region). And in fact Taiwan is on the outermost of the continental shelf of Asia. — Instantnood 09:52 Mar 5 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm not talking about who broke off who. I am referring to a region.  A geographical region.  The Wikipedia is not to involve itself in politics and should not.  Should we care who rules over China?  Yes, but only for factual reasons.  Should we care who rules over the region that is referred as Taiwan?  Yes, but only for factual reasons.  Articles dealing with geographically located places on the region which is referred as Taiwan should use the Taiwan-geo-stub.  Articles dealing with geographically located places on the region which is referred as China should use the China-geo-stub.  Geographically located are the key words here.  Places that exist in the area that is commonly referred as China should not belong in the Taiwan-geo-stub.  Places that exist in the area that is commonly referred as Taiwan should not belong in the China-geo-stub.  Under the definition, we place anything that is geographically defined as China under the China-geo-stub.  Geographically, by this I mean nothing that is considered disputed.  To use the POV term, mainland China is what I am referring to.  Okay?  We already know what the geographically named location of Taiwan is.  Let us leave anything that is geographically defined in the area of the region that is known as Taiwan and has historically been known as Taiwan under the Taiwan-geo-stub.  By changing it to the ROC-geo-stub, you are referring to a location which is ruled by a government.  We are defining a geographical location by its name not its governance or political status. -- AllyUnion (talk) 12:58, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * No. It was because of politics that made Taiwan (the island) being part of China the geographical region is disputed.
 * There are places controlled by the ROC which are not geographically part of Taiwan, for instance Quemoy, Matsu, Wuchiu and Pratas. Under the proposal below they will be tagged with Template:Taiwan-geo-stub. — Instantnood 14:37 Mar 5 2005 (UTC)

I personally do not see a problem if we sort Qingmon and Matsu into China-geo-stub separately from the rest of Taiwan geo stubs. If that's your point, you have my full support. Geographical articles of Taiwan should be sorted into a geographical entity, not a political entity, such as ROC. Taiwan-geo-stub could be a sub-category into China-geo stub, as long as the readers are informed about the political dispute over Taiwan and the political implication of this sub-categorization to keep this move neutral.Mababa 06:48, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I support having the stubs sorted along contributors' interests, not necessarily along geographical or political boundaries. Having subcategories could be a bad thing that stub articles would be incorrectly tagged. Hyperlinks between the categories is better than subcategorisation. — Instantnood 08:49 Mar 8 2005 (UTC)

I think you are suggesting having stubs sorted according to one's POV. I wonder if that is neutral though. I actually likes your idea separating Taiwna and other Quemoy and Matsu islands a lot. At least that's a guideline with a neutral basis. Or perhaps you have other better idea?Mababa 09:00, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * There's no perfectly NPOV option. By sticking to contributors' areas of interests is indeed a compromise. It's pragmatic. — Instantnood 15:19 Mar 9 2005 (UTC)
 * Please note that it was you initially brought up the issue that Quemoy and Matsu islands should not be listed under Taiwan, otherwise constitutes POV. And I agreed with your opinion that they should be treated as part of China; and I even supported a solution in line with your idea. If this does not work I am not sure what else would make you happy. Please also note that you are perhaps the only one in this discussion colunm insists on removing Quemoy and Matsu islands from Taiwan category. And now you are suggesting a categorization according to one's interest, not necessarily along geographical or political boundaries, a proposal I am not sure what exactly that is. Please clarify this amorphous and mysteric proposal. If geographical and political boundaries could not be used as clear guide-lines for sorting stubs, please, lecture on us on how one's interest would serve better. According to your focus on Taiwan and also your guide-line, I propose we can merge ROC, Taiwan and HK stubs and make a new stub category called Instantnood-stub.Mababa 05:27, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Geo-stubs proposal
Hopefully the following proposal will be at least reasonably agreeable to all those involved in this argument. For the time being I intend to leave the idea of general stubs aside, and concentrate on geo-stubs. The currently existing China-stub and Taiwan-stub should suffice for now for general articles.

Unless any forthcoming objections are strong ones, I inted to make a Template:Taiwan-geo-stub, to feed into Category: Republic of China (Taiwan) geography stubs. I also intend to change the destination of the existing Template: China-geo-stub to Category: People's Republic of China geography stubs. The latter I may need help for, from admins who are more au fait such things (will a simple redirect do the trick?). Hopefully the compromise of simpler names for the templates and more precise names for the categories is acceptable to everyone.

I'll leave it a couple of days before making the changes, in order for any further points to be raised. Grutness|hello? 08:26, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I oppose. There's no need. All this does is confuse people and add the POV that the ROC is the legitimate government over these areas, despite most nations supporting Beijing's position, jguk 09:19, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Sigh. Which are you opposing, the category name? If so, please suggest an alternative - preferably one that will keep everyone happy. (This could be tricky - I'm seriously beginning to think that, in order to keep everyone happy the only possible name would be Category:The area that likes to be known as the Republic of China but which most people call Taiwan but which also includes several small chains of islands which are controlled by this "country", "rebel region" or whatever you wish to call it but aren't geographically part of Taiwan itself geography stubs'' . Which is possibly a tad on the long side).
 * As to the POV, although I tend to agree with you, that follows Wikipedia's policy on the naming of the place, as Instantnood will no doubt point out.
 * Would people be happier if the category was Category: Taiwan (Republic of China) geography stubs? Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 09:43, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Right. By compromising with "Republic of China (Taiwan)" I'm already not following the naming conventions. The naming conventions says "Republic of China" should be used, without Taiwan in round brackets. — Instantnood 09:52 Mar 5 2005 (UTC)
 * (response to jguk) I don't think they really are supporting Beijing's position. They have to establish diplomatic relations with Beijing, first to counter balance the Soviet Union during the cold war, and later for trade. In the beginning the ROC government under Chiang (the elder one) broke up ties with these countries, for he thought he's the legitimate one and "the legitimate one would not stand along with the illegitimate one". Later and until now it is the prerequisite set up by Beijing for all countries. — Instantnood 09:52 Mar 5 2005 (UTC)
 * (response to Grutness) Thanks. A little additional request: to have Template:ROC-geo-stub redirected to Template:Taiwan-geo-stub, and to link Template:China-geo-stub to Category:Mainland China geography stubs. Would it be possible? — Instantnood 09:52 Mar 5 2005 (UTC)
 * The whole purpose of making the stub name Taiwan-geo-stub and the category name "Republic of China (Taiwan)" was in the interests of compromise. I'm not really convinced that having a duplicate ROC-stub will help anything, especially seeing that the general geography stub is Taiwan-stub. If there is a demand for it, though, there's no reason why it couldn't also be added, redirecting to Taian-geo-stub. As to "mainland China", you have been arguing all along that we should use the official names - mainland China is not the official name. There is nothing wrong with using "People's Republic of China geography stubs" - and before you ask, yes, that would make "Category:Hong Kong geography stubs" a subcategory of it. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 05:59, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Well yes, and I'll have to compromise if the consensus is made to have it directed to "Category:People's Republic of China geography stubs". However I am afraid Hong Kong-related geostubs will be be tagged wrongly. Editors who are interested in expanding Hong Kong-related articles wouldn't be sensitive to go to the parent category and to dig them out. :-P And of course under my suggestion "Category:Mainland China geography stubs" and "Category:Hong Kong geography stubs" can be linked by hyperlinks.
 * "Mainland China" is the official name used by the PRC government and the Hong Kong government to refer to PRC territories with Hong Kong and Macao excluded. Its usage on Wikipedia is also stated at Naming conventions (Chinese). — Instantnood 11:03 Mar 6 2005 (UTC)
 * (Re: Grutness) I'm interested in seeing how this will play out-- although, from my point of view, this is one of the items that leaving as "Mainland China" and "Taiwan" would work due to the fact that Geo-stubs are, by definition, not politics. Like Instantnood's comment directly above me, a link from RoC-Geo --> Taiwan-Geo is theoretically correct because RoC is the political entity located on the island of Taiwan-- so RoC-Geo being redirected to Taiwan-Geo works. Just my idea. Penwhale 19:46, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * IMHO stub categories should be sorted along editors areas of interests, and therefore separate categories for mainland China and Hong Kong, and geography stubs of, say, Matsu, be tagged with Template:ROC-geo-stub rather than China (meaning mainland China or the PRC). — Instantnood 22:10 Mar 5 2005 (UTC)

That's the whole reason this mess developed in the first place. (response to Penwhale) I too am interested to see how this will woprk out. I'm beginning to feel that it would have been easier to resolve this by leading a delegation to Taipei and Beijing to demand reunification! :) Grutness|hello?  05:59, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Or separation will do. :-D — Instantnood 11:04 Mar 6 2005 (UTC)

Geo-stubs proposal 2
Sigh. Let's try again. Category:Mainland China geography stubs and Category:Hong Kong geography stubs would both be subcategories of Category:People's Republic of China geography stubs.
 * Template:Taiwan-geo-stub -> Category: Republic of China (Taiwan) geography stubs
 * Template:China-geo-stub -> Category: Mainland China geography stubs

Any objections?

(An alternative option would be to have Categories called Taiwan geo. stubs and Mainland China geo.stubs, and allow articles on Quemoy et al to be double stubbed to both categories, but I suspect that, from a political poitn of view, that would be worse than all the other options mentioned). Grutness|hello? 10:02, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks very much Grutness. No objection about this proposal. But then as I have mentioned, I prefer hyperlinks between the categories to subcatagorisaion.  — Instantnood 16:19, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your diligence in solving this mess. I would stand neutral on this proposal, with the caveat that ROC=\=Taiwan. However, I still prefer to sort Geo-stubs according to the geographical demarcations. i.e. Quemoy et al to be sorted into China instead of Taiwan. I wonder if anyone would really object this arrangement and how this could be worse than other proposal. Quemoy et al were bona fide geographically part of China( as a geographical entity). No political POV is implicated.Mababa 06:40, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I understand that, you understand that, Instantnood and the others involved in this debate understand that. But that does not guarantee that it won't offend some people. The boundaries and specifics of the two entities that call themselves China are a delicate subject (and, sadly, international news suggests it is becoming more delicate daily). I'll set to with this shortly, then. And that will only leave the non-geographical stubs... Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 07:07, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Instantnood
Since this page has been mentioned in an RfC against Instantnood, I felt I should mention it here. I've already put in my two-cents worth into the discussion here, but I will sumarize my opinion: Although Instantnood has been vigorously arguing his points, nothing that I've seen justifies the filing of an RFC against him. Blank Verse  ∅ 08:54, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Merge Hong Kong
There are currently 6 stub categories for Hong Kong (number at end is approx number of articles)
 * 1) Politics of Hong Kong stubs   3
 * 2) Hong Kong education stubs	4
 * 3) Hong Kong geography stubs	59
 * 4) Hong Kong people stubs		12
 * 5) Hong Kong stubs		46
 * 6) Hong Kong-related stubs	18

Is there a procedure to get these merged into a more reasonable number of fewer categories? RJFJR 02:25, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * The last two should definitely be merged
 * I'll second that - merge 5 and 6 Courtland 04:56, 2005 Feb 10 (UTC)
 * ..., but I do believe the HK wikipedians' notice board would disagree with the other (just like the Canadian one would object to merging away Canada-bio-stub) They will simply be listed as subcategories of Hong-Kong-related stubs, I say. --Circeus 03:40, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * I know I'm biased, but the general HK stub and the HK geo stub look like the only viable ones to me. But who knows, more HK people, politics or education articles may turn up. The last two should definitely be merged though - they seem identical. is this a remnant of the old Hong-Kong-stub vs HK-stub argument? Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 05:52, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * How about consulting the HK board on the issue, see what they think. Getting into a war now won't help --Circeus 17:59, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * Of course. The only reason I made my comments here is it's probably better if we reach a consensus or at least discuss different views we might have, so that we have some coherent point of view when we go over there. I'm certainly not suggesting we ignore their opinions! Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]] 22:37, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Good point :). I must admit that any HK stubs I've noticed when looking though stub or substubs in the last couple of days I've tried to remember to put in the right subcategory to help out! Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]
 * 5 and 6 are already merged and fixed before the discussion started here. There is a known bug with categories linked by templates. The articles in the old category wouldn't be moved and appear in the new one until they are edited and saved. — Instantnood 06:53 Feb 23 2005 (UTC)
 * I heard from ntnood that "To create a new stub template/category, normally at least 100 stub articles are needed." It seems appropriate that all the categories should be collapsed into one stub by this standard.Mababa 03:04, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Quoted from #3 of WP:WSS/Policy "Stub categories may be resorted but should not be deleted if the stub category reaches less than 100 articles.". :-D — Instantnood 09:39 Feb 24 2005 (UTC)


text:
Bentley T-series

The Bentley T-series is a luxury automobile produced by Bentley Motors Limited in the United Kingdom from 1965 to 1980. It was announced and displayed for the first time at the Paris Motor Show on 5 October 1965 as a Bentley-badged version of the totally redesigned Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow.

The Bentley T series was available as a four-door saloon and as a long wheelbase four-door saloon. A small number of two-door saloons were built with coachwork by James Young and Mulliner Park Ward and a two-door convertible with coachwork by Mulliner Park Ward was introduced in September 1967. A total of 2,336 examples were produced.

Design
The T series was the first unibodied Bentley, and was totally different from its predecessor the S series. It featured a new steel and aluminium monocoque body with subframes to mount the engine and suspension. While smaller overall, it had more passenger room, particularly in the rear compartment, yet more luggage space. Overall the car was 7 in shorter, 5 in lower, 3+1/2 in narrower, and 150 lb lighter than the S.

Because of being fitted with the traditional round-shouldered "Bentley" style front grille – its sole material styling difference from the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow – it was also somewhat lower at bonnet height, giving it a slightly more assertive look.

The 'T' also featured independent suspension on all four wheels with automatic height control according to loading. Other major improvements included disc brakes on all wheels (with a triplicate hydraulic braking system patented from Citroën that also supplied pressure for the self leveling suspension); new and lighter power steering, improved automatic transmission, eight-way adjustable electric front seats, and a larger fuel tank.

The engine received a redesigned cylinder head that allowed a speed increase to 118 mph.

In October 1966, the T saloon's pretax 'list price' of £5425 was £50 less than the Silver Shadow.

Image
The formerly more sporting image of Bentley motor cars differing from Rolls-Royces was long gone and far from being renewed by the time the Bentley T was introduced. Effectively, the two were indistinguishable.

T2
The T was upgraded to the "T2" in 1977, which featured rack and pinion steering, improved air conditioning, rubber-faced bumpers, a new fascia and, for non-federalized cars, a front air dam. Bosch CIS Fuel Injection was introduced for late 1979 and 1980 models for the US and other markets, similarly to the Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II.

The T2 was discontinued in 1980.

Production numbers
Note: 15 of the two-door Saloons were built with coachwork by James Young, the remainder by Mulliner Park Ward.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Bentley T-series


text:
Kay Gardella

Genevieve C. "Kay" Gardella (February 23, 1923 – April 13, 2005) was an American journalist who worked for the New York Daily News for nearly 60 years.

Early life and education
Born in Belleville, New Jersey, Gardella joined the Daily News as a copygirl two years after graduating from the now-defunct Upsala College in East Orange, New Jersey.

Career
Over the remainder of the century, Gardella worked her way through the ranks of the New York Daily News. During her career, she interviewed Frank Sinatra, Edward R. Murrow, and others.

She was particularly close friends with Bob Hope and his wife, Dolores. The paper named her radio and television editor in 1975, a critic in 1981, and finally a columnist in 1993. Gardella often mourned for the "golden age of Hollywood" and criticized declining values. Gardella was a guest on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In in 1972 and appeared as a panelist in four episodes of The New Hollywood Squares.

She was very critical of Howard Stern in the 1980s.

Gardella suffered from cancer in her final years. Her last column appeared on March 19, 2005.

Personal life
On April 13, 2005, she died at Cabrini Medical Center in New York City. She was married to the late Daily News reporter Anthony Marino.

title: Kay Gardella


text:
Permic languages

The Permic or Permian languages are a branch of the Uralic language family. They are spoken in several regions to the west of the Ural Mountains within the Russian Federation. The total number of speakers is around 950,000, of which around 550,000 speak the most widely spoken language, Udmurt. Like other Uralic languages, the Permic languages are primarily agglutinative and have a rich system of grammatical cases. Unlike many others, they do not have vowel harmony.

The earliest Permic language to be preserved in writing was Old Permic or Old Zyryan, in the 14th century.

The extant Permic languages are:

 * Udmurt (Votyak)
 * Komi (Zyryan)
 * Permyak (Komi-Permyak)
 * Yazva (Komi-Yazva)

The Permic languages have traditionally been classified as Finno-Permic languages, along with the Finnic, Saami, Mordvin, and Mari languages. The Finno-Permic and Ugric languages together made up the Finno-Ugric family. However, this taxonomy has more recently been called into question, and the relationship of the Permic languages to other Uralic languages remains uncertain.

Phonology
Proto-Uralic word roots have been subject to particularly heavy reduction in the Permic languages.
 * Original geminates *pp, *tt, *kk were reduced to single voiceless stops *p, *t, *k.
 * Between vowels, original single *p, *t, *k as well as *w and *x were lost entirely.
 * Second-syllable vowels were lost entirely. This was obscured in Udmurt by adding -ы to certain words. (PU *lumi "snow" → Udm лымы vs PU *lämi "broth" → Udm лым ).
 * The sibilants *s, *ś, *š have remained distinct from each other in all positions, but were voiced to *z, *ž, *ź between voiced sounds.
 * Consonant clusters were largely simplified: in particular nasal + stop/affricate clusters yield voiced stops/affricates, and stop + sibilant clusters yield voiceless sibilants.

A peculiarity of Permic is the occurrence of the voiced consonants such as *b, *g word-initially even in inherited vocabulary, apparently a development from original PU voiceless consonants.

The Proto-Permic consonant inventory is reconstructed as:

This inventory is retained nearly unchanged in the modern-day Permic languages.

Komi has merged original into  and undergone a word-final a change  →  in many dialects, while Udmurt has changed word-initially  →  or. is retained only in some Udmurt dialects; in other Permic varieties it has become next to back vowels,  next to central vowels,  next to front vowels.

In later Russian loanwords, the consonants may occur.

The consonant was marginal and occurred only word-initially or after a word-initial, generally traceable to diphthongization of the close back vowel of the 2nd series. An exceptional word is the numeral "six",, which in Komi is the only native word root with an initial cluster.

Literary Komi and literary Udmurt both possess a seven-vowel system. These are however not related straightforwardly, and numerous additional vowels are required for Proto-Permic, perhaps as many as 15 altogether. The reconstruction of Proto-Permic vocalism and its development from Proto-Uralic has always been a puzzling topic, for which there are several models. There is general agreement on the existence of two series of close vowels, one of which results in modern in literary Udmurt and literary Komi-Zyryan, the other in correspondences of Udmurt  to Komi  (but  in the Komi-Yazva language). Proposed distinguishing factors for these include length, tenseness and height.

Here is the vowel table used in Wiktionary:

Morphophonology
Noun roots in the Permic languages are predominantly monosyllabic and invariable with the canonical shape (C)VC. CV roots, such as Udmurt ву /ʋu/, Komi and Permyak ва /ʋa/ 'water', and (C)VCC roots, such as Udmurt урт /urt/, Komi орт /ort/ 'soul', exist as well. In Udmurt, there are furthermore a number of bisyllabic roots, mostly of the shape (C)VCɯ.

In noun roots with certain final clusters, the second consonant surfaces only when followed with a vowel in inflected or derived forms :

Udmurt has similar alternation for a number of other clusters of the shape voiced consonant+/m/, while Komi-Zyryan adds a number of clusters of the shape voiced consonant+/j/.

The verb root for 'to come': Udmurt лыкты-, Komi локты- also shows alternation to plain /k/ in e.g. the imperative (in Udmurt only dialectally).

title: Permic languages


text: Category:Prefecture-level divisions of Anhui


text:
Channelrhodopsin

Channelrhodopsins are a subfamily of retinylidene proteins (rhodopsins) that function as light-gated ion channels. They serve as sensory photoreceptors in unicellular green algae, controlling phototaxis: movement in response to light. Expressed in cells of other organisms, they enable light to control electrical excitability, intracellular acidity, calcium influx, and other cellular processes (see optogenetics). Channelrhodopsin-1 (ChR1) and Channelrhodopsin-2 (ChR2) from the model organism Chlamydomonas reinhardtii are the first discovered channelrhodopsins. Variants that are sensitive to different colors of light or selective for specific ions (ACRs, KCRs) have been cloned from other species of algae and protists.

History
Phototaxis and photoorientation of microalgae have been studied over more than a hundred years in many laboratories worldwide. In 1980, Ken Foster developed the first consistent theory about the functionality of algal eyes. He also analyzed published action spectra and complemented blind cells with retinal and retinal analogues, which led to the conclusion that the photoreceptor for motility responses in Chlorophyceae is rhodopsin.

Photocurrents of the Chlorophyceae Haematococcus pluvialis and Chlamydomonas reinhardtii were studied over many years in the groups of Oleg Sineshchekov and Peter Hegemann. Based on action spectroscopy and simultaneous recordings of photocurrents and flagellar beating, it was determined that the photoreceptor currents and subsequent flagellar movements are mediated by rhodopsin and control phototaxis and photophobic responses. The extremely fast rise of the photoreceptor current after a brief light flash led to the conclusion that the rhodopsin and the channel are intimately linked in a protein complex, or even within one single protein.

The name "channelrhodopsin" was coined to highlight this unusual property, and the sequences were renamed accordingly. The nucleotide sequences of the rhodopsins now called channelrhodopsins ChR1 and ChR2 were finally uncovered in a large-scale EST sequencing project in C. reinhardtii. Independent submission of the same sequences to GenBank by three research groups generated confusion about their naming: The names cop-3 and cop-4 were used for initial submission by Hegemann's group; csoA and csoB by Spudich's group; and acop-1 and acop-2 by Takahashi's group. Both sequences were found to function as single-component light-activated cation channels in a Xenopus oocytes and human kidney cells (HEK).

Their roles in generation of photoreceptor currents in algal cells were characterized by Oleg Sineshchekov, Kwang-Hwan Jung and John Spudich, and Peter Berthold and Peter Hegemann.

Structure
In terms of structure, channelrhodopsins are retinylidene proteins. They are seven-transmembrane proteins like rhodopsin, and contain the light-isomerizable chromophore all-trans-retinal (an aldehyde derivative of vitamin A). The retinal chromophore is covalently linked to the rest of the protein through a protonated Schiff base. Whereas most 7-transmembrane proteins are G protein-coupled receptors that open other ion channels indirectly via second messengers (i.e., they are metabotropic), channelrhodopsins directly form ion channels (i.e., they are ionotropic). This makes cellular depolarization extremely fast, robust, and useful for bioengineering and neuroscience applications, including photostimulation.

Function

The natural ("wild-type") ChR2 absorbs blue light with an absorption and action spectrum maximum at 480 nm. When the all-trans-retinal complex absorbs a photon, it induces a conformational change from all-trans to 13-cis-retinal. This change introduces a further one in the transmembrane protein, opening the pore to at least 6 Å. Within milliseconds, the retinal relaxes back to the all-trans form, closing the pore and stopping the flow of ions. Most natural channelrhodopsins are nonspecific cation channels (CCRs), conducting H+, Na+, K+, and Ca2+ ions. Anion-conducting channelrhodopsins (ACRs) and potassium-selective channelrhodpsins (HcKCR1, HcKCR2) were structurally analyzed to understand their ion selectivity. ACRs and KCRs have been used to inhibit neuronal activity. Recently discovered viral channelrhodopsins (VCR1) are localized to the membrane of the endoplasmic reticulum and lead to calcium release when illuminated.

Development as a molecular tool
In 2005, three groups sequentially established ChR2 as a tool for genetically targeted optical remote control (optogenetics) of neurons, neural circuits and behavior.

At first, Karl Deisseroth's lab demonstrated that ChR2 could be deployed to control mammalian neurons in vitro, achieving temporal precision on the order of milliseconds (both in terms of delay to spiking and in terms of temporal jitter). Because all opsins require retinal as the light-sensing co-factor and it was unclear whether central mammalian nerve cells would contain sufficient retinal levels, but they do. It also showed, despite the small single-channel conductance, sufficient potency to drive mammalian neurons above action potential threshold. From this, channelrhodopsin became the first optogenetic tool, with which neural activity could be controlled with the temporal precision at which neurons operate (milliseconds). A second study was published later confirming the ability of ChR2 to control the activity of vertebrate neurons, at this time in the chick spinal cord. This study was the first wherein ChR2 was expressed alongside an optical silencer, vertebrate rhodopsin-4 in this case, demonstrating for the first time that excitable cells could be activated and silenced using these two tools simultaneously, illuminating the tissue at different wavelengths.

It was demonstrated that ChR2, if expressed in specific neurons or muscle cells, can evoke predictable behaviors, i.e. can control the nervous system of an intact animal, in this case the invertebrate C. elegans. This was the first using ChR2 to steer the behavior of an animal in an optogenetic experiment, rendering a genetically specified cell type subject to optical remote control. Although both aspects had been illustrated earlier that year by the group of Gero Miesenböck, deploying the indirectly light-gated ion channel P2X2, it was henceforth microbial opsins like channelrhodopsin that dominated the field of genetically targeted remote control of excitable cells, due to the power, speed, targetability, ease of use, and temporal precision of direct optical activation, not requiring any external chemical compound such as caged ligands.

To overcome its principal downsides — the small single-channel conductance (especially in steady-state), the limitation to one optimal excitation wavelength (~470 nm, blue) as well as the relatively long recovery time, not permitting controlled firing of neurons above 20–40 Hz — ChR2 has been optimized using genetic engineering. A point mutation H134R (exchanging the amino acid Histidine in position 134 of the native protein for an Arginine) resulted in increased steady-state conductance, as described in a 2005 paper that also established ChR2 as an optogenetic tool in C. elegans. In 2009, Roger Tsien's lab optimized ChR2 for further increases in steady-state conductance and dramatically reduced desensitization by creating chimeras of ChR1 and ChR2 and mutating specific amino acids, yielding ChEF and ChIEF, which allowed the driving of trains of action potentials up to 100 Hz. In 2010, the groups of Hegemann and Deisseroth introduced an E123T mutation into native ChR2, yielding ChETA, which has faster on- and off-kinetics, permitting the control of individual action potentials at frequencies up to 200 Hz (in appropriate cell types).

The groups of Hegemann and Deisseroth also discovered that the introduction of the point mutation C128S makes the resulting ChR2-derivative a step-function tool: Once "switched on" by blue light, ChR2(C128S) stays in the open state until it is switched off by yellow light – a modification that deteriorates temporal precision, but increases light sensitivity by two orders of magnitude. They also discovered and characterized VChR1 in the multicellular algae Volvox carteri. VChR1 produces only tiny photocurrents, but with an absorption spectrum that is red-shifted relative to ChR2. Using parts of the ChR1 sequence, photocurrent amplitude was later improved to allow excitation of two neuronal populations at two distinct wavelengths.

Deisseroth's group has pioneered many applications in live animals such as genetically targeted remote control in rodents in vivo, the optogenetic induction of learning in rodents, the experimental treatment of Parkinson's disease in rats, and the combination with fMRI (opto-fMRI). Other labs have pioneered the combination of ChR2 stimulation with calcium imaging for all-optical experiments, mapping of long-range and local neural circuits, ChR2 expression from a transgenic locus – directly or in the Cre-lox conditional paradigm – as well as the two-photon excitation of ChR2, permitting the activation of individual cells.

In March 2013, the Brain Prize (Grete Lundbeck European Brain Research Prize) was jointly awarded to Bamberg, Boyden, Deisseroth, Hegemann, Miesenböck, and Nagel for "their invention and refinement of optogenetics". The same year, Hegemann and Nagel received the Louis-Jeantet Prize for Medicine for "the discovery of channelrhodopsin". In 2015, Boyden and Deisseroth received the Breakthrough Prize in Life Sciences and in 2020, Miesenböck, Hegemann and Nagel received the Shaw prize in Life Science and Medicine for the development of optogenetics.

Designer-channelrhodopsins
Channelrhodopsins are key tools in optogenetics. The C-terminal end of Channelrhodopsin-2 extends into the intracellular space and can be replaced by fluorescent proteins without affecting channel function. This kind of fusion construct can be useful to visualize the morphology of ChR2 expressing cells, i.e. simultaneously indicate which cells are tagged with FP and allow the activity to be controlled by the channelrhodopsin. Point mutations close to the retinal binding pocket have been shown to affect the biophysical properties of the channelrhodopsin, resulting in a variety of different tools.

Kinetics
Closing of the channel after optical activation can be substantially delayed by mutating the protein residues C128 or D156. This modification results in super-sensitive channelrhodopsins that can be opened by a blue light pulse and closed by a green or yellow light pulse (Step-function opsins). Mutating the E123 residue accelerates channel kinetics (ChETA), and the resulting ChR2 mutants have been used to spike neurons at up to 200 Hz. In general, channelrhodopsins with slow kinetics are more light-sensitive on the population level, as open channels accumulate over time even at low light levels.

Photocurrent amplitude
H134R and T159C mutants display increased photocurrents, and a combination of T159 and E123 (ET/TC) has slightly larger photocurrents and slightly faster kinetics than wild-type ChR2. ChIEF, a chimera and point mutant of ChR1 and ChR2, demonstrates large photocurrents, little desensitization and kinetics similar to wild-type ChR2. Variants with extended open time (ChR2-XXL) produce extremely large photocurrents and are very light sensitive on the population level.

Wavelength
Chimeric channelrhodopsins have been developed by combining transmembrane helices from ChR1 and VChR1, leading to the development of ChRs with red spectral shifts (such as C1V1 and ReaChR). ReaChR has improved membrane trafficking and strong expression in mammalian cells, and has been used for minimally invasive, transcranial activation of brainstem motoneurons. Searches for homologous sequences in other organisms has yielded spectrally improved and stronger red-shifted channelrhodpsins (Chrimson). In combination with ChR2, these yellow/red light-sensitive channelrhodopsins allow controlling two populations of neurons independently with light pulses of different colors.

A blue-shifted channelrhodopsin has been discovered in the alga Scherffelia dubia. After some engineering to improve membrane trafficking and speed, the resulting tool (CheRiff) produced large photocurrents at 460 nm excitation. It has been combined with the Genetically Encoded Calcium Indicator jRCaMP1b in an all-optical system called the OptoCaMP.

Ion selectivity
Most channelrhodopsins are unspecific cation channels. When expressed in neurons, they conduct mostly Na+ ions and are therefore depolarizing (excitatory). Variants with moderate to high calcium permeability have been engineered (CatCh, CapChRs). K+-specific channelrhodopsins (KCRs, WiChR) were recently discovered in various protists. When expressed in neurons, potassium-selective channelrhodopsins hyperpolarize the membrane upon illumination, preventing spike generation (inhibitory).

Mutating E90 to the positively charged amino acid arginine turns channelrhodopsin from an unspecific cation channel into a chloride-conducting channel (ChloC). The selectivity for Cl- was further improved by replacing negatively charged residues in the channel pore, making the reversal potential more negative. Anion-conducting channelrhodopsins (iChloC, iC++, GtACR) inhibit neuronal spiking in cell culture and in intact animals when illuminated with blue light. Calcium-selective channelrhodopsins have been engineered to activate calcium-dependent enzymes in cells.

Applications
Channelrhodopsins can be readily expressed in excitable cells such as neurons using a variety of transfection techniques (viral transfection, electroporation, gene gun) or transgenic animals. The light-absorbing pigment retinal is present in most cells (of vertebrates) as Vitamin A, making it possible to photostimulate neurons without adding any chemical compounds. Before the discovery of channelrhodopsins, neuroscientists were limited to recording the activity of neurons in the brain and correlate this activity with behavior. This is not sufficient to prove that the recorded neural activity actually caused that behavior. Controlling networks of genetically modified cells with light, an emerging field known as Optogenetics., allows researchers now to explore the causal link between activity in a specific group of neurons and mental events, e.g. decision making. Optical control of behavior has been demonstrated in nematodes, fruit flies, zebrafish, and mice. Recently, chloride-conducting channelrhodopsins have been engineered and were also found in nature. These tools can be used to silence neurons in cell culture and in live animals by shunting inhibition.

Using multiple colors of light expands the possibilities of optogenetic experiments. The blue-light sensitive ChR2 and the yellow light-activated chloride pump halorhodopsin together enable multiple-color optical activation and silencing of neural activity. Another interesting pair is the blue-light sensitive chloride channel GtACR2 and the red-light sensitive cation channel Chrimson which have been combined in a single protein (BiPOLES) for bidirectional control of membrane potential.

Using fluorescently labeled ChR2, light-stimulated axons and synapses can be identified. This is useful to study the molecular events during the induction of synaptic plasticity. Transfected cultured neuronal networks can be stimulated to perform some desired behaviors for applications in robotics and control. ChR2 has also been used to map long-range connections from one side of the brain to the other, and to map the spatial location of inputs on the dendritic tree of individual neurons.

In 2006, it was reported that transfection with Channelrhodopsin could restore eyesight to blind mice.

Neurons can tolerate ChR expression for a long time, and several laboratories are testing optogenetic stimulation to solve medical needs. In blind mice, visual function can be partially restored by expressing ChR2 in inner retinal cells. In 2021, the red-light sensitive ChR ChrimsonR was virally delivered to the eyes of a human patient suffering from retinal degeneration (retinitis pigmentosa), leading to partial recovery of his vision. Optical cochlear implants have been shown to work well in animal experiments and are currently undergoing clinical trials. In the future, ChRs may find even more medical applications, e.g. for deep-brain stimulation of Parkinson patients or to control certain forms of epilepsy.

title: Channelrhodopsin


text: Template:Canadian flags

title: Template:Canadian flags


text:
Category:Cities in Anhui

Cities in Anhui province include:

title: Category:Cities in Anhui


text:
User talk:Will Beback/Old Archive3

Gangs of New York
check out the updated biography of William Poole, and look at all the original material at Wikisource on him. I am now going through the New York Times archive online and getting more info

 * Wow! What a wild time. There must be lots of out-of-copyright material now, maybe some illustrations? Photos of neighborhoods, maps, drawings from that era? Those long citations should eventually be summarized (since the source material can be easily accessed), but they make a great read. Good project. Cheers,-Willmcw 08:14, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

LaRouche (Again-sorry)
Hi! I rearranged the headings in the "POV Warrior" section on the decision/talk page so that you, me, and possibly SlimVirgin can respond in a row. I also added a note praising you and Slim for diligent and balanced editing attempts. If you don't like the headings and subheadings as is, fix them any way you want.--Cberlet 14:47, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I took a sneak preview of the LaRouche movement article last night. It's excellent work, as is your evidence. Thank you for doing it all. SlimVirgin 00:29, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * Fabulous work. You ask if NBC actually reported those weird things. My recollection is yes (God this NPOV thing is like a virus) but I will go check. Will take a few days.  Buried in an archive.--Cberlet 00:57, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks both. There are two almost-empty sections that I'm hoping each of you can help fill: funding and cultishness. Otherwise the article is virtually ready to post, I think (after stripping out some jokes and notes). [And of course, feel free to edit any part of it. It's not mine.]

 * BTW, I think the question about the NBC material was SV's. Also, I've posted a list of articles edited by HK/WH/CC/48 at User:Willmcw/sandbox2. I've compiled all their edits into a list (it was quick), and had hoped to get a chrono list, but the dates are hard to parse. If anyone is looking for a particular edit or edit summary, let me know. It appears that virtually every edit has been to further the LaRouche worldview. Cheers, -Willmcw 01:07, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Brilliant. SlimVirgin 02:16, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, it was me who wondered about NBC. The HH position was that NBC accused LaRouche of murdering Palme, plotting to murder Kissinger and, I believe, Carter (I'm writing from memory). I was wondering whether NBC accused him or whether they reported the accusations of others. My Dennis King book has arrived by the way: I had it in storage in a previous place I lived, so a friend sent it on to me. I'm now fully armed. SlimVirgin 02:07, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * "(move in the 185,000-word template. (have baggage, will travel))" Laughing out loud. That long list of articles is bound to put in an appearance shortly. Have you given any thought to the poor soul who checked that it was 185,000? SlimVirgin 11:18, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

Regarding your recent point to Fred, David Gerard of the arbcom is a very good person to put points like these to; he's very well-organized and knows the rules and the previous rulings, just in case you have no luck. He can be contacted on his page or via email as you prefer. SlimVirgin 00:53, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * I've asked almost every member of the ArbCom about why there's been no response to my complaint, including Gerard on Feb 8. At least he responded to say that he'd mentioned it to the other ArbCom members. Also, did you delete some material from the LaRouche case talk page? Cheers, -Willmcw 01:01, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I wonder whether an e-mail would work better? Just a thought. If I did delete material, I didn't mean to. What's missing? SlimVirgin 01:17, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the extra notes you've posted around. The ArbCom process is a bit confusing, at least for me. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:42, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * You're welcome. It is confusing. I'm wondering whether any of the admins will step in, as the ruling said (from memory) "on demonstration to the arbitration committee," so the admins may well refer you back there. Worth a try though. SlimVirgin 04:55, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Loved One
I'm actually reading The Loved One at the moment and finding it quite wonderful. A few weeks ago my girlfriend and I took a trip to Forest Lawn after having read about it, it was simply amazing. So maudlin, yet so earnest. The Loved One gets it perfectly. By the way, in your quest for LaRouche documentation, if you need someone to look up anything in backissues of the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, or even New Solidarity, I can do that pretty easily where I'm at right now, and can easily scan documents. --Fastfission 00:22, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Styles
Hi. You commented on attempts by some people to use styles like Royal Highness and Holiness when referring to title holders. They are trying to do that again on Pope John Paul II. The naming conventions say to define what someone's style is in the text, not use it. But a handful of people, having unilaterally changed the policy and begun adding in styles, are trying to have them used in articles.

(I'd better declare an interest here. I was one of the people who put together the Naming conventions (names and titles). We had a discussion on styles twice. Both times most people saw major problems in using them. I put together a change to the conventions page to represent what people agreed, having said I was going to do it. Our 'stylists' now keep deleting the stuff from the naming conventions page, then insisting that there is no rule against putting them in, then calling styles a somewhat different thing called honorifics which are allowed, and which they then say can be added in.)

Your contribution on the Pope John Paul II and Naming conventions (names and titles) pages would be more than welcome. You, unlike them, see the practical problems, POV problems and complexities that arise if styles are used as opposed simply to being explained. FearÉIREANN 12:17, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Userfy
I saw your question on a VfD, asking what "userfy" means. That means to move the content of an article from article space to a user's personal userspace as a subpage. We sometimes do that if the article is a vanity bio of a registered user, or if it was created as an editing experiment that some impressive amount of work has gone into. Joyous 00:44, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks very much for your response. I'd finally posted a message on the other editor's talk page, where he responded. There's a very active editor who has a very long autobiography, which, if true, makes the guy appear to be the leading physician in Brazil. I believe the benefit that he is giving Wiki in other articles exceeds the 'cost' of his self-promotion, but I'm glad to know there is a way of handling it should a question ever arise. Cheers, -Willmcw 03:45, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Galton, Darwin, and Lincoln!
I'm glad you thought the same thing when you saw the recent edits to eugenics. If he keeps it up I'm going to refer him to the recently-concluded Darwin-Lincoln birthday dispute arbitration. On the one hand, I can't believe how much time is wasted on this sort of nonsense. On the other hand, I guess that's part of what one has to expect with a project like this. Sigh... --Fastfission 00:55, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

SNL
Well, I think it should have a brief mention of illness, doesn't need to specify. I agree that it should be kept short and simple. Everyking 23:23, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Black codes
Hey *waving*. Thanks for the note and the suggestion that I stop by Black Codes. Don't have any time today; I'm crunching deadlines. But I'll try to stop by later -- by which time the controversy likely will have been resolved. I will say that my recollection is that the draconean Black Codes first came into being in the Caribbean sometime in the early to mid 17th century and then were adopted by U.S. slaveowners as the numbers of enslaved Africans in proportion to the white population grew dramatically. In many locales, enslaved blacks outnumbered whites -- a dangerous situation for whites. deeceevoice 14:56, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee ruling
As a ruling has been made on the case involving you, the temporary injunction against you has expired. Please see the final decision for details. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 01:23, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thank you! ;-) SlimVirgin 05:38, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your kind words which are very much appreciated. I also have to say how impressed I was by your evidence, which was absolutely compelling, and was composed with great clarity, which I know is not an easy thing to do. Your finding the plagiarism was very important — in fact, pivotal — and I can only imagine how time-consuming that was. The difficulty of making people see how extensive the duplicity was, is that they had to go through all his edits for themselves to see it. You did that, and I'm very pleased and very grateful that you did. You're right about the Weed post being a classic. And now that the case is over, I hope I'll have more time to devote to my defense of Her Majesty. SlimVirgin 08:12, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * FYI, I just posted the following on David Gerard's talk page:
 * David, this may be nothing, but just to gave you the heads up. A new user User:Eggplantwizard (see User talk:EggplantWizard) has made a contribution to Talk:LaRouche Movement, a new article just posted by Willmcw, saying the content is a bit one-sided. I'm wondering whether this is Herschelkrustofsky's latest incarnation. S/he signed up today, Feb 17, and has made a number of seemingly random edits. Contribs here S/he already knows how to revert, has managed to find VfD, Vandalism in progress, wrote in an edit summary "rephrased for NPOV", which was a favorite Herschel edit summary, and added the cleanup tag to an article, which displays a lot of knowledge for a new user. I'll keep an eye on it, but wanted to let you know of the possibility. SlimVirgin 00:05, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Consulting my database of HK edit summaries, I don't see that he ever said "rephrased for NPOV", but he did use similar phrases. Frequently used phrases were: "adjust for NPOV",(3) "correct for NPOV", (6) and "NPOVish" (2). Why is that when editors add summaries that say "NPOV" they have almost always have inserted their own POV? I view it as a "red flag," though I suspect they believe it is the opposite. Anyway, if it's HK he'll reveal himself in some fashion. -Willmcw 00:18, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * PS I'd have to spend more time to get accurate counts of what he said, which interests me not at all. ;) But it's easy to find what he didn't or did say on individual occasions. Anyway, let's hope we have a short respite. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:19, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * What I find very interesting is that no matter how hard sockpuppets try to disguise their language, choice phrases end up being used time and again, and people who have dealt with the previous incarnation invariably recognize them. The best one I know of was Alberuni, who created, I believe, 10-20 sockpuppets, all with different personalities and many of them active at the same time, who made anti-Zionist or anti-Semitic edits (depending on your point of view), some of them insulting (e.g. reference to "kike"), some of them more reasoned. His best sockpuppet was User:ThinkPink, who gave the impression she was a woman campaigner against breast cancer. See here for her old user page, which David Gerard has now replaced with a picture of a sock. Even though she sounded quite different from Alberuni, the editors who had long dealt with him recognized ThinkPink instantly from certain linguistic turns. I've long thought it would make a good PhD thesis. SlimVirgin 00:32, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * A thesis in what field? Abnormal psychology? ;) -Willmcw 08:21, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Speaking of which, Prometheism, which you blanked because it was plagiarized from Dnagod's website, has been rewritten and I've nominated it for deletion. More details at Votes for deletion/Prometheism. SlimVirgin 08:57, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * FYI, I didn't blank it- my only involvement was conversing with Dnagod about it. Thanks for organizing the VfD. -Willmcw 09:31, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

Gone but not forgotten
End of an era. SlimVirgin 06:46, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Me and Weed worked out that bit of text ("theorist of conspiracies") between us as a compromise. I'll admit, I have a sentimental attachment to it.  Though a trifle odd, it is factually correct and NPOV. I stand by our compromise and am nominally defending it. However, I have no objection to linking it to Conspiracy theory as a compromise. I'm sure eventually some editor will come through and do a re-write or something and it'll disappear. But I think there are more urgent issues in editing these articles. ;) Cheers,  -Willmcw 07:00, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

I admire your steadfastness. I was a little sad to see it go myself. ;-) SlimVirgin 07:27, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Will Beback/Old Archive3


text:
Herbst

Herbst is the German word for autumn or fall.

Herbst may also refer to:

Surnames

 * Christoph Maria Herbst (born 1966), German actor and comedian
 * Eduard Herbst (1820–1892), Austrian jurist and statesman
 * Irné Herbst (born 1993), South African rugby union player
 * János Herbst (1956–2015), Hungarian politician
 * Jess Herbst (born 1958), American politician
 * Johan Herbst (born 1987), South African rugby union player
 * Johann Andreas Herbst (1588–1666), German composer
 * Johann Friedrich Wilhelm Herbst (1743–1807), German biologist
 * John Herbst (disambiguation), multiple people
 * Josephine Herbst (1892–1969), American novelist
 * Manasse Herbst (1913–1997), Austrian-German actor and singer
 * Rebecca Herbst (born 1977), American actress
 * Reinfried Herbst (born 1978), Austrian skier
 * Riley Herbst (born 1999), American NASCAR driver
 * Sabine Herbst (born 1974), German swimmer
 * Sharon Tyler Herbst and her husband Ron Herbst (1942–2007), American food and wine authors
 * Thomas Herbst (footballer) (born 1962), German footballer and football manager
 * Thomas Herbst (painter) (1848-1915), German Impressionist painter
 * Torsten Herbst (born 1973), German politician
 * Wiehahn Herbst (born 1988), South African rugby union player for the Tel Aviv Heat

Other uses

 * Herbst Gaming, gas station and casino operator using the name of "Terrible Herbst"
 * Herbst Theatre, an auditorium in the War Memorial and Performing Arts Center in the Civic Center, San Francisco, USA
 * Herbst maneuver, an aerobatic maneuver named after Wolfgang Herbst
 * Herbst, Indiana, a small town in the United States
 * Corpuscles of Herbst, avian mechanoreceptors

title: Herbst


text:
McDavid

McDavid is a surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Connor McDavid, Canadian ice hockey player
 * Eric McDavid, American green anarchist
 * Raven I. McDavid, Jr., American linguist
 * Ray McDavid, American baseball player

title: McDavid


text:
Futuro

A Futuro house, or Futuro Pod, is a round, prefabricated house designed by Finnish architect Matti Suuronen, of which fewer than 100 were built during the late 1960s and early 1970s. The shape, reminiscent of a flying saucer, and the structure's airplane hatch entrance has made the houses sought after by collectors. The Futuro is composed of fiberglass-reinforced polyester plastic, polyester-polyurethane, and poly(methyl methacrylate), measuring 4 m high and 8 m in diameter.

History
The Futuro house was a product of post-war Finland, reflecting the period's faith in technology, the conquering of space, unprecedented economic growth, and an increase in leisure time. It was designed by Suuronen as a ski cabin that would be "quick to heat and easy to construct in rough terrain". The result was a universally transportable home that had the ability to be mass replicated and situated in almost any environment.

The material chosen for the project—fiberglass-reinforced polyester plastic—was familiar to Suuronen and was previously used in the design of a large plastic dome for the roof of a grain silo in Seinäjoki. To facilitate transport, the house consisted of 16 elements that were bolted together to form the floor and the roof. The project could be constructed on-site, or dismantled and reassembled on-site in two days, or even airlifted in one piece by helicopter to the site. The only necessity on site for its placement were four concrete piers, so the project could occupy nearly any topography. Due to the integrated polyurethane insulation and electric heating system, the house could be heated to a comfortable temperature in only thirty minutes, from -29 to +16 °C (-20 to +60 °F).

An excerpt from a February 1970 copy of Architecture d’aujourd’hui describes "Futuro" as: "the first model in a series of holiday homes to be licensed in 50 countries, already mass-produced in the United States, Australia and Belgium. The segments of the elliptic envelope are assembled on the site using a metal footing. Through its shape and materials used, the house can be erected in very cold mountains or even by the sea. The area is 50 sq m, the volume 140 cubic m, divided by adaptable partitions."

By the mid-1970s, the Futuro was taken off the market, having been poorly received, since its inception — its avant-garde construction, appearance and materials having negatively influenced public acceptance.

The first Futuro House that was erected near Lake Puulavesi in Finland elicited public protest because it looked too unnatural for the rustic environment. In the United States, Futuro Houses were banned from many municipalities by zoning regulations. Banks were reluctant to finance them. Some were vandalised. Some customers who'd committed to buy them, backed out and forfeited their non-refundable $1,000 deposits ($ adjusted for inflation). Some have been destroyed. In 1999, the city of Tampa ordered a Futuro House demolished. Shortly after the turn of the century, a Futuro House was purchased on Broadkill Beach, Delaware, and destroyed to make way for a double-wide modular home. Some have been vandalised in drive-by shootings.

The oil crisis of 1973 led to an abrupt halt in plastic production. Synthetics became very expensive to produce. Additionally, the public was shifting their view of plastics from a miracle material to an ecological concern. These problems provide context to the discontinuation of the Futuro House. Fewer than 100 were made and it is estimated that today around 60 of the original Futuro Houses survive, owned mostly by private individuals. The prototype (serial number 000) is in the collection of Museum Boijmans Van Beuningen in Rotterdam. The Futuro no. 001, the only other Futuro currently in a public collection, is in the possession of the WeeGee Exhibition Centre in Espoo, Finland.

There are approximately 63 confirmed Futuro Houses in existence across the world. They are in: Australia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Ukraine, Russia, Sweden, South Africa, Taiwan, the United Kingdom and the United States of America.

Conservation
In 2010, Finnish conservator Anna-Maija Kuitunen made a damage assessment plan for the first Futuro ever made (serial number 001). This was done as her final thesis for the Metropolia University of Applied Sciences in Finland ("Futuro no. 001 – documentation and evaluation of preservation need"). The thesis is openly available via the Finnish Theses database and contains a large number of indoor detail photographs and drawings of the Futuro House.

A UK artist, Craig Barnes, purchased and restored a Futuro house in 2013-14. He had discovered the wreck whilst on holiday in South Africa and had it shipped back to the UK before commencing restoration. This Futuro house, the only one in the UK, was on display to the public as part of an exhibition on the rooftop of Matt's Gallery, London until December 2014. The house was featured on the fourth series of the Channel 4 programme George Clarke's Amazing Spaces (Ep. 2 ).

The Swedish Air Force Museum is restoring a Futuro house. It will be placed in front of the museum at the new playground during May 2021.

One Futuro house was found to be biodegrading due to cyanobacteria and archaea.

Marketing and media
The Futuro home was primarily marketed towards young adults as an avant-garde retreat. Their promotion emphasized the versatility of the home in different locations and an excerpt from a Playboy Magazine advertisement reads, "The FUTURO's steel-legged base is adaptable to virtually any terrain, from flatground to a 20 degree incline ... Ideal for Beach, Skiing, Mountain areas and commercial uses." However, a key limitation to this narrative was the need for electricity and plumbing to be installed in order for the structure to be fully habitable. Many surviving structures have been retrofitted to allow for these needs and as a result the form Suuronen intended is compromised.

Uses
The Futuro House has had many departures from its intended use as a ski chalet.

Australia
One has been located at South Morang, (Melbourne, Victoria) go kart track for more than 25 years where it has been used as a storage unit at the track. Duncan McIntyre bought the Futuro and moved it from its original location in Greensborough (Melbourne, Victoria) to the track. Duncan bought it from a real estate agent who used the Futuro as a temporary booth for sales of land at a new housing estate called Apollo Parkways.

A Futuro House was used as a green room for artists at the Falls Festival in Lorne (Victoria), before its Kyneton owner sold it in 2016 to be shipped to Perth (Australia). Another Futuro House has been in Perth since the late 60s placed on the corner of two roads. Lost Perth Spaceship

One house was located in Darwin and was destroyed by Cyclone Tracy in 1974.

The final houses are located in Deep Creek, South Australia, and on the campus grounds of the University of Canberra. This Futuro, thought to be manufactured in New Zealand, arrived in Canberra in 1972. It spent time at the Canberra Space Dome (Planetarium) and Observatory in Dickson in 1997 and arrived at the university in 2011.

New Zealand
Two Futuro Houses were transported to Christchurch for the 1974 New Zealand British Commonwealth Games. These structures, referred to as "Space Banks", were used by the Bank of New Zealand as temporary banking structures. Following the games, the Futuro Houses were put up for sale.

United States
Futuro Homes in the USA were manufactured by the Futuro Corporation of Philadelphia. Some still stand today and many of these structures existed in New Jersey.

At least nine standard Futuro Houses and one Futuro House with eight windows were constructed in New Jersey in the 1970s to 1980s. However, many did not last past the 1980s and were demolished. These pods were installed mostly in shopping centre parking lots. At least one of each model served as small-scale bank branches. This use of these Futuro houses was likely due to zoning regulations at the time that would have made it difficult to live in one.

A Futuro House located in Frisco, NC and featuring alien memorabilia, was a roadside attraction on the Outer Banks for many years, though it had fallen into disrepair before being completely destroyed by fire on 19 October 2022.

Documentary
In 1998, Finnish film director Mika Taanila made a short documentary film Futuro – A New Stance For Tomorrow about the Futuro house.

In 1969, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) shot a piece on the first kit shipped to Australia.

title: Futuro


text:
Talk:Edge (wrestler)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:37, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Edge y christian destrozando el coche de Del Rio.jpg

The constant anon edits are getting ridiculous
Kinda irritating that they are constantly editing the page today. The page also has it's text rearranged. I think it looked better with the currently signed part put ahead of the part about his 31 championships User112889 (talk) 23:27, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2023
Tokyo Pro Wrestling CCW Tag Team Championship (1 time) - with Ken Johnson[340] CCW Tag Team Championship Tournament (1998) - with Ken Johnson[340]

change to: CCW Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Ken Johnson[340] CCW Tag Team Championship Tournament (1998) – with Ken Johnson[340]

i mean should change "-" to "–" so the profile can be looked formally! 27.2.142.30 (talk) 05:25, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅  BelowTheSun  (T•C) 13:41, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Name change
Is there any interest in changing this article name to Adam Copeland, since he appears to be performing under that name now? Adam Copeland already redirects to this article so it may not be worthwhile. This is not my area of expertise but I thought I'd start the discussion-- MOS:NAME may be relevant here as well.

Vegantics (talk) 13:26, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * not by my side. he has worked for 25 years as Edge, hall of fame, wrestlemania main event, several world titles, so its a pretty strong Commonname for just one week as Adam. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 15:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * wrestling wikipedia is far too trigger happy on name changing. he has used this name for over 25 years in wwe and isnt going to be in aew for very long as he plans to retire in a year or so. all that will happen is it will get changed back to edge again within a year, wasting everyone's time. even ten years in aew wouldnt be enough imo, he has the most combined titles wins in wwe history and is a hall of famer.Muur (talk) 21:24, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * He doesn't have the most combined titles in WWE History. That would be R-Truth with 53 24/7 title reigns and other title reigns. RyanConnell5150 (talk) 04:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Much too soon, no where near the WP:COMMONNAME — Czello (music) 21:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Glad to have the consensus, it sounds like this won't need to be revisited for several years.
 * Vegantics (talk) 13:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You all have the funniest idea of consensus on this website. 50.32.184.37 (talk) 07:41, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Edge (wrestler)


text:
Griselinia

Griselinia is a genus of seven species of shrubs and trees, with a highly disjunct distribution native to New Zealand and South America. It is a classic example of the Antarctic flora. It is the sole genus in the family Griseliniaceae. In the past it was often placed in Cornaceae but differs from that in many features.

Description
Small dioecious trees or shrubs up to 20 m with erect branches, or shrubs up to 2 m with climbing or scandent branches. The leaves are evergreen, thick and leathery, smooth and glossy above, often paler below. The flowers are very small, with five sepals and stamens and a single stigma, borne on terminal or axillary racemes or panicles. Petals 2–3 mm long. However, the female flower of G.lucida has no petals. The fruit is a small red or purple oval berry 5–10 mm long.

Chemical characteristics
Petroselinic acid occurs as the major fatty acid in the species, indicating a relationship to the Apiaceae and the Araliaceae. Recent genetic evidence from the Angiosperm Phylogeny Group has shown that Griselinia is correctly placed in the Apiales.

New Zealand species
The two New Zealand species are large shrubs or trees, from 4 - 20 m tall. Both trees can be epiphytic or hemiepiphytic. The young tree often colonizes amongst other epiphytes like Collospermum and Astelia high in the forest canopy, before growing aerial roots down the trunk of its host. Upon contact with the ground the roots can become large – up to 25 cm thick, and are easily identified for their heavy lengthwise corrugations. G. lucida seldom becomes a freestanding tree if having begun life epiphytically, and can often be seen to have collapsed where the host has died. Epiphytic growth in G. littoralis is less common but does occur in wetter climates.

The vernacular names are of Māori origin.
 * G. littoralis – Kapuka; leaves 6 cm long.
 * G. lucida – Puka, akapuka, shining broadleaf; differs from G. littoralis in larger leaves, to 12 cm long.

South American species
The five South American species are smaller shrubs, 1–5 m tall. All are known as Yelmo.
 * G. carlomunozii – coastal northern Chile (Antofagasta)
 * G. jodinifolia – Chile
 * G. racemosa – southern Chile (Los Lagos, Aisén) and adjacent Argentina (western Chubut)
 * G. ruscifolia – Argentina, Chile, southeast Brazil
 * G. scandens – central and southern Chile

title: Griselinia


text:
Perast

Perast is a town in Coastal region of Montenegro. It is situated a few kilometres northwest of Kotor and is noted for its proximity to the islets of St. George and Our Lady of the Rocks.

History
According to the presumptions of the archaeologists, the first settlements appeared in the area of Perast in the Neolithic; There are also monuments of the Illyrian, Roman, and early Christian periods. The city was founded by the Illyrians, named after one of the local tribes, Pirusti.

The first memories of Perast refer to 1336—at that time there was a small fishing village, which had a shipyard, and there were always several commercial and fishing boats in the harbor. But since the strategically important island of St George, which belonged to Kotor, is in the immediate vicinity, the development of Perast was slow.

The prosperity of the city brought the Venetian period, and it was of particular importance in the border area around 1482, after taking the Turkish part of the coast from Herceg Novi to Risan. When a small village finally became a city, its inhabitants thought about reinforcements. The fortress of the Holy Cross and a dozen defensive towers were built. After the successfully held battles, Perast began to use some of the political and economic privileges, in particular, it had the right to guard the Venetian flag of St. Mark after 1654 by holding a siege by the Turks under the leadership of Mehmed-beg Rizvanagić. Pyotr Andreyevich Tolstoy traveled from Herceg Novi to Perast in 1698 and he wrote that in the town of Perast live Croats. He also recorded that there were no Orthodox churches in the city while a Greek church existed in a village not far away, and that Serbs of Greek faith who were military people similar to the Don Cossacks lived in the village.

Perast also had free trade with the Republic of Venice and was granted the forgiveness of the Venetian authorities in the ruthless fight against pirates on the Adriatic. Because of this, the city grew and was enriched: only in the 18th century. For centuries, 20 palaces were built in Baroque style, 17 Catholic and two Orthodox churches. And since one of the best maritime schools was housed here, Peter I was sent here from Russia by promising sailors for training with extraordinary captain Marko Martinovic. When Napoleon defeated the Republic of Venice in 1797, Perast was faithful to Venice for several months, but in the end the city had to lower the flag of St. Mark. From that moment began the decline of Perast: along with the whole area of the Bay of Kotor, it was left to the Austrians and Italians, and then the French, and then again under the rule of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and was in its composition to defeat in the First World War. In 1918, the city became part of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, and in 1941 it became part of the Italian province of Cattaro (Kotor). It was only in 1944 that the city gained independence in Yugoslavia and became one of the administrative areas of the Montenegrin Republic. Since 2006, the city has finally become part of an independent Montenegro.

Geography
Perast lies beneath the hill of St Ilija (873 m), on a cape that separates the Bay of Risano from that of Kotor, and overlooks the Verige strait, the narrowest part of the Bay of Kotor. The average yearly temperature in Perast is 18.3°C, and the number of sunny days is 240 (or around 2,500 sunny hours per year).

Near Perast there are two islets: one is called Sveti Đorđe (St George) or Sveti Juraj and the other Gospa od Škrpjela (Our Lady of the Rocks), and each has a picturesque chapel. Gospa od Škrpjela is particularly interesting given that it is the only artificially-built island in the Adriatic, with an area of 3,030 m2, it was built upon a rock (Škrpjel) after two Venetian sailors from Perast found a picture of the Virgin Mary on it in 1452.

Demographics
Out of total population of Perast, 121 are male, while 148 are female.

According to the 2011 census, the town had a total of 269 inhabitants, divided by ethnicity:

Notable people

 * Matija Zmajević, admiral of the Russian Navy
 * Andrija Zmajević, Baroque poet, the Archbishop of Antivari, and theologian
 * Krsto Zmajević, captain and merchant
 * Vicko Bujović, Roman Catholic archbishop of the Archdiocese of Zadar, Croatia
 * Tripo Kokolja, painter

title: Perast


text:
User talk:Kvidell

Welcome! Feel free to do to this page as you see fit... Just keep the context somewhat centred around "talking to me" and stay within the Wiki Rules of Conduct!

New page for lymphoma
Hi. I'm new to wikipedia, so I don't know the protocol for editing user pages. If you would like to change your lymphoma link to lymphoma in animals, you will find a new page with info on dog lymphoma. --Joelmills 01:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh! Thank you very much. Changes made. kvidell 02:32, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Question about Jeremy Lesniak
Would it be possible to get that article a  so that someone may clarify?
 * Was just curious as to why you marked that for deletion? He's pretty much as famous as anyone would need to be, in Vermont anyway, for the work he's done with the community both with his company, VCI, and outside of it.

- kvidell 21:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Added I have added a hangon per your request. You might want to update the article at your earliest convenience. Dipics 21:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment It doesn't seem to meet WP:BIO to me. The company he runs doesn't seem very notable and that is his main claim to notability.  If you place a hangon on it and further explain the notability, it might help. Dipics 21:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

You and Dogs
Your say "I've had several of them [Dobermans] in the past few years."

What do you mean by 'had'? It has been said you have 'had' a menagerie of animals in the past including wolves, coons, cats, dogs, bunnies, and even a zebra. Kenyoni 04:33, 22 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenyoni (talk • contribs)

File:Kevin videll.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Kevin videll.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Kelly hi! 08:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Kevin videll2.jpg listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Kevin videll2.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Kelly hi! 08:59, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kvidell