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Talk:Ordnungspolizei

Landespolizei
There is a mistake in the last part ("Legacy ...") of this article. The Landespolizei is by no means the federal police of Germany. The Landespolizeien are the police forces of each Bundesland and therefore more like a State Police in the US. Currently there is no "federal police" in Germany. The closest things are probably the Bundeskriminalamt (FBI like federal criminal investigation office), the Bundesgrenzschutz (the federal border protection service) or the Zoll (German customs service, that also investigates some federal tax issues). I'm a little unsure about the best way to re-write this section of the article. Maybe someone with more expertise on this subject could do it...

Schutzpolizei
The link from the article on the Landespolizei to the Schutzpolizei links to the Ordnungspolizei. Since this last body was an organ of the Nazi state and clearly the current Schupos have no connection to this there is a need to ceate a current article on the Schupos. Ozdaren 14:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

 * E Ohioenjoyer (talk) 17:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Grüne Polizei (Green Police)
[]

Do you've some sources? The police still ist green in Germany (It is changing to blue because of internationalisation) --Athalis 16:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I think also the article as worded is misleading, since green was the traditional color for police in Germany long before the Third Reich. Solicitr (talk) 21:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

The same old myhs yet again
In 1936 Himmler was appointed "Chief of the German Police in the Ministry of the Interior" not simply "Chief of the German Police". This a crucial distinction, for the powers vested in Himmler's new office were exactly those previously exercised in police matters by the Ministry of the Interior under Wilhelm Frick. Himmler was wont to ommit the "in the Ministry of the Interior" in corespondence, but his powers remained the same, weather he liked it or not. There was never any intention to centralise operational control over the police, and Himmler was never authorised to issue orders to the uniformed police. The SS gained authority over the training academies and the power to determine service regulations. Command authority and power of appointment over the non-Gestapo police remained firmly and unchallengably in the hands of the so called "Bearers of Sovreignty", namely gauleiters kreisleiters and later sub-kreiseleiters. In the occupied territories it was exercised by kommisars or governors. Only in the absence of a civilian administration or in emergencies was the SS given control over police forces when a civilian administration was in place, with the sole exeption of von dem Bach Zelewski's anti-partisan command. When Germany occupied new territories the military often relinquished control to a putative civilian administration before that administration had materialised except on paper. The most extreme example being the formal ransfer of most of the occupied Soviet territories to a civilian administration in July, though this administration only came into being in October and in some areas November. The result was a power vaccume which the SS would fill with its HSSPFs and SSPFs chain of command. However once a fully rammified civilian administration was in place this chain of command was displaced by it. The SS did not always give up authority without a fight but ultimately it could not win. If we are to understand the regretable phenomenon of Nazism, then the myth of the small but mighty SS weilding great powers of coercion over other bodies, notably the police, must be done a way with. The SS makes a nice alibi for German mass criminality during the Nazi era but ultimately it is a false alibi.

Myths piled on myths - no mention of Christopher Browning or Unit 101, etc. This whole story of great masses of psycho Germans mass murdering people and leaving no evidence behind is getting tiresome. I have worked in a mental institution and psychos always leave evidence. Their ability to differentiate reality from dream is gone - out of this many police you would have a few psychos - even if they weren't all psychos - and they would have body parts, etc in their refrigerators, etc. 159.105.80.141 19:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I am confused by the last para as it does not seem to link to the earlier one. Where are there refs to psycho masses and no evidence? Surely the whole point of Browning is that people who are clearly not psychos are capbale of perpetrating horrendous crimes against unarmed civilians. I hope that the writer of the last para with the harping on about evidence is not implying that the police batalions were not involved in mass murder and that whole swathes of the Jewish population just disappeared. As to evidence I think linking it to body parts in a freezer is rather facile - there is plenty od documentary evidence of the role of police units and given that there was a war going on and the areas involved were re-taken then what kind of evidence is meant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.236.47 (talk) 20:05, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I added a link to Further Reading and Browning's book. Mcrawley (talk) 05:48, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I have a problem, for the reasons stated above, with the infobox line "The Orpo was under the administration of the SS." That's really, really misleading; as the anon commenter points out, the Orpo may in practice have been subject to SS-and-Police-Leaders' operational control, and was run by Himmler and Daluege who were also SS leaders as well as police officials.... but nonetheless, administratively the Orpo was never within the SS-Hauptamt structure; it remained an agency of the (State) Innernsministerium, not the (Party) SS.  It was not even in the never-never-land of the hybrid RSHA like the SiPo.  Solicitr (talk) 21:11, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

 * I would agree, overall. The Orpo was under operational control or defacto control of the SS; this given the fact its leaders (of the Police overall and the Uniformed Police, specifically) were members of the SS. One could write: "The Orpo was under operational control of the SS". Kierzek (talk) 19:38, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

 * OK, I've altered it to read "The Orpo was under the administration of the Interior Ministry but headed by members of the SS" I think that's a reasonably accurate statement. I've also tried to correct "became a headquarters branch of the SS," which was simply untrue.Solicitr (talk) 17:52, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Caption date
The caption on the picture of German policemen passing the broken windows of a Jewish shop in Berlin gives the date as 1933 but calls them "Orpo", which according to this article wasn't founded until 1936. I think something needs correction or elaboration, but I'm not sure what. —— Shakescene (talk) 09:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Now we have no fewer than three pictures with captions referring to years well before 1936, two of them explicitly purporting to describe Ordnungspolizei. Since it's been a month since my yet-to-be-answered first entry above, I may soon hide these pictures within brackets until the anachronism is resolved. —— Shakescene (talk) 04:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They might, at a push, by members of a police force that happened to have the name 'Ordnungspolizei' - Germany still maintains small forces called Ordnungsamt so it's not all together impossible. You might like to ask at a military WikiProject, I'm sure the uniforms will be a giveaway to them. ninety:one  23:14, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Photo caption: rank
Daluege's pic gives him the rank of Oberstgruppenfuhrer, but of course that rank didn't exist in 1936, nor is he wearing its insignia in the photo. Propose "Obergruppenfuhrer (later Oberstgruppenfuhrer) Karl Daluege etc." Solicitr (talk) 00:10, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point. Or it can be written: "Shown here in 1936 as an Obergruppenfuhrer." Kierzek (talk) 00:57, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Done. But I wonder if we should swap this photo with the one on Daluege's bio page, which shows him in Orpo general's uniform. Solicitr (talk) 22:01, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with the switch as he was first an SS officer, head of the Berlin SS and leader of "SS Group East" before later being appointed head of the Orpo. Kierzek (talk) 00:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Done. And now I have some puzzlement about that "Orpo" uniform. He's wearing general's Arabeske, presumably on green, naturally; but the French cuffs suggest that's not a police uniform at all, but a Reichswehr-era officer's uniform. Note also the absence of a sleeve Polizeiadler. And to further confuse matters, those look like SS shoulderboards- but what is the pinned device? It looks for all the world like the same oakleaf insignia Himmler wore. Solicitr (talk) 02:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree, looks like some "non-regulation" or custom insignia to his uniform. Both to note he was of General rank and to note the SS. Kierzek (talk) 19:42, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * D'oh! It's right there in the photo-file caption: (September 1933 zum General der preußischen Landespolizei ernannt).  Uniform of a general in the pre-Orpo Prussian Landespolizei.Solicitr (talk) 06:08, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. It ought to be noted in the Wiki page photo caption. Kierzek (talk) 14:29, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Agency Overview

 * The following discussion is an archived talk page discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in an appropriate section of this discussion page (see Help:Using talk pages).  No further edits should be made to this section.

Address of Ordungspolizei/Berlin- The Prinz Alrecht Straße was the address of the Sicherheitpspolizei. The Ordnungpolizei had the adress of the Ministry of Interior: Berlin NW 7, Unter den Linden 72/74. (ex EHRI project/Ordnungspolizei ehri-project). There are other incorrect statements and contradictions in this article, maybe I can find the time (and patience) to adress them. (Someone tried already in vain, see "The same old myths yet again" of 2007.) --Aschland (talk) 10:00, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Aside from the rambling portions of the ip's post above, the point as to Himmler being the "Chief of the German Police in the Ministry of the Interior" is stated in the article; although he was only nominally under Frick; Himmler only answered to Hitler. Also, I tweaked the article to make clear, the Orpo was under the administration of the Interior Ministry but headed by members of the SS until the end of World War II. Kierzek (talk) 15:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * And the address? There are other proofs like telephone-directories, publications.. instead of complaining about the "ramblings postings" you could at least cite the correct address.(Sorry, I am not used to daily argue in a medium like this... and my knowledge of the language is obviously poor(er) that yours.) Orpo: All decrees, enactments of the Ordnungspolizei came from offices of the Ministry of Interior or the Minster, there are many decrees to be found in archives, and most of the enactments are online available. After 1945 the Germans put all the blame on the SS, and when the facts about the involvment of the Ordnungspolizei (and Wehrmacht - but this is still a tabu) in killing jews, partisans/civilians, destroying villages etc.. were known, it was easy to explain this fact by pointing out to Himmler an the SS. Myths! Most of them were "ordinary men" (Browning 1992) led by ideologically trained police officials ("ideological soldiers"/Goldhagen), some of them with SS membership, many of them with NSDAP membership - see Edward B.Westermann, Hitler`s Police Battailons. Enforcing Racial War in the East, Kansas, 2005.

--Aschland (talk) 10:01, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Instead of writing all of the above, why don't you change the address if you have an WP:RS cited source to back it up. The address was a main concern of yours, not mine. I did check RS sources, but all they say is "[t]he Orpo main office was in Berlin". And then go on to list the branches/sub-departments. As for the rest, no one is letting the Orpo members off the hook; the point was, under whom was control placed for the organization. Kierzek (talk) 11:40, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The specific place where Daleuge maintained his office has been an interesting question for historians. About a third of the sources say he was at Prinz Albrect Strasse with a good deal more saying the Ministry of the Interior.  Letterheads from the time point to the Interior Minister but then there are all kinds of photos of Daluege hanging out at Prinz Albrect Strasse. My feeling is he was officially over at the Interior Ministry but spent most of his time down the hall from Himmler at P.A. Strasse. -O.R.Comms 17:22, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

The address is not my “concern”, addresses are facts. You said you did check but could find nothing more that “Berlin”. So you assumed that the Orpo had the same address of the Gestapo (Prinz Albrecht Straße 8) near the SS-SD (Prinz Albrecht Palais) and the SS headquarter (Prinz Albrecht Hotel). The same old myth, you see? I already referred to a reliable source – see ehri/achives project, you can find the address also in a document of 1942 (Reichsministerium des Innern/page 75): NSDAP und Verbände, Reichsregierung. The branches/sub-departments of the Orpo seem to be your “concern”, they underwent changes– see the history of the Orpo in: NEUFELDT, HUCK, TESSIN, Zur Geschichte der Ordnungspolizei 1936 – 1945, Schriftenreihe des Bundesarchivs 3, Koblenz 1957(p. 22, 33,37 ), my knowledge of English is not sufficient to translate the terms. Orpo-members - uniformed policemen of Schutzpolizei, Gendarmerie, Firepolice, Waterpolice etc. - should not be let off the hook? This was not my point... Why not address the legally responsible, like Minister Frick (sentenced to death at the Nurenberg-Prozess as well as his successor as Minister of Interior in 1943/Himmler), or Wilhelm Stuckert in the MdI who got a mild verdict because of “incurable illness” - see Wilhelmstraßen-Prozess 1948/49 (Ministries Trials). Since 1933 Reichskanzler Hitler and his ministers had the right to enact laws, the majority of the parlament approved, socialists votes against; communists could no longer not vote. Even the SD/Sipo could claim to act according to decrees of Ministries and laws of the Reich. The imprisonment by Gestapo-officials (“Schutzhaft” – cynical description of arbitrary arrests and torture) was sanctioned by “law”. (Ba the way, maybe this was the reason you assumed that the Orpo/Schutzpolizei was situated in Prinz Albrecht-Straße?) --Aschland (talk) 16:28, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I did not "assume" the address currently stated was correct, Aschland; I was pointing out that there was not a clear RS source I found stating something different; as OberRanks points out, there is no clear consensus; and then there is the argument of official and unofficial. This is my last post on this subject. Kierzek (talk) 17:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

So, facts are not relevant? And if there are reliable proofs, well, according to you and your OberRanks it could still be the case that the Sipo-headquater was the unofficial address of der Orpo-headquarter. This is ridiculous. The official address at the Ministry of Interior (Berlin NW 7, Unter den Linden) in letters, documents, address registers was a fake? To what end? The only explanation for all this futile discussion – and for quite a lot of other mistakes in the article - seems to be the Orpo/Sipo-confusion. Both were called German police, both were involved in crimes against humanity. At first sight the difference between Orpo and Sipo seems to be obvious because the members and leaders of all the different branches of Orpo had to wear uniforms of the Reich/State (see Delague-foto) while Sipo-officials had no uniforms or were clad in black SD-uniforms after they joined the SS or when "on duty" abroad. More important in this context: In 1936 Heydrich, employed in the SS administration as chief of the security agency of SD, was also appointed chief of the Sipo and led both offices parallel. From then on Gestapo and criminal police cooperated with/were dominated by the SS (SD) and in 1939 were amalgamated with the SD to the RSHA. Already from the beginning (1933/34) the Gestapo and then the Sipo (1936) were destined and formed as “political” police with the commission of implementing the NS-rule. Heydrich boasted about it, Delagues Opro were only for routine and administration (which was not true). But only the Gestapo could make arrests without legal grounds; and by decrees of 1938, 1939, 1940, 1942 the criminal police had the authority of identifying and arresting Roma & Sinti and vagrants, prostitutes, homosexuals etc. - see Hans Buchheim, SS und Polizei im NS-Staat, Bonn, 1964, Friedrich Wilhelm, Polizei im NS-Staat, Paderborn 1997 e.a.. The center of planning and designing the NS-regime was in Prinz Albrecht Straße, Sipo/SD,RSHA. The Einsatzgruppen of Sipo/SD in the east got - if needed - "assistance" by units stationed in the region - most of all Orpo and cooperating native [|Schutzmannschaften] under Orpo-control but also Wehrmacht or Hungarian and Italian etc. fascist soldiers/units - see Christian Hartmann, Johannes Hürter, Ulrike Jureit: Verbrechen der Wehrmacht. Bilanz einer Debatte, München 2005. --Aschland (talk) 13:56, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you are ranting about. I have no "Orpo/Sipo-confusion". If you have something to add to the article which can be RS cited, go ahead. Kierzek (talk) 16:55, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with Kierzek. This was apparently a closed issue, what exactly is the problem?  The article clearly states the headquarters of the Orpo was at the Interior Ministry, which is correct.  The comments about Prinz Albrecht Strasse were just to stress that Daluege spent a lot of time there (which he did), but he did not have an HQ there although there was an Orpo liaison office down the hall from Himmler.  Interesting relationship between those two men, Himmler and Daluege.  They appear to have gone back and forth between the worst of enemies to the best of friends. -O.R.Comms 18:30, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If it takes such a long time to convince you to correct an obviously incorrect adress (see above), and even then - instead of "Thank you for this input" - to doubt if it was a really a false adress, and all the time never answering to arguments (NLP-trained?)...If you have no idea "what I was ranting about" - well, this is your problem. Why should someone take the trouble to fight? You are the gatekeeper. End of ranting about. --Aschland (talk) 16:10, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

No yet: Yes, there is an overlapping of Ordungspolizei/Orpo and Sicherheitspolizei/Sipo in the text. Interesting: In an article on Ordungspolizei you refer to an illustrated biography of Heydrich (Chef od SS-SD-Hauptamt, after 1936 also Chef of Sipo). Hence the long discussion about the address, the assumption that the main office became “populated by officers of the SS” - which was partly the case in the Hauptamt Sicherheitspolizei because of the cooperation with SS-SD. Delague entered the Prussian Ministry of Interior in 1933, was General der Polizei when appointed Chef of Ordnungspolizei 1936 (adressed as such in the decree of the Ministry). He joined the SS, but was not an SS-Official as was Heydrich. When Himmler became Minister of Interior (1943) some SS-officials were installed in the Hauptamt Ordnungpolizei (Hans Joachim Neufeldt, Entstehung und Orgnisation des Hauptamtes Ordnungspolizei (Zur Geschichte der Ordnungspolizei 1936 – 1945, Schriftenreihe des Bundesarchivs 3, Koblenz 1957), etc...

You should read more on the subject and preferably better books than the ones you relied on: Gordon Williamson (World War II German Police Units) is a popular “history writer” with a tendency to “uncritical portrayal of the German war effort” (Wikipedia). In the online available text about the “Ordnungpolizei” or “police” there are no references, he is not a reliable source. And who is Max Williamson (Reinhard Heydrich: The Biography, 1 —Road To War)? He seems to be more interested in pictures of Heydrich than in facts. The publishing houses (Osprey Publishing/Williamson; Ulric Publishing/Williams)are known for their foibles for militia and illustrated book, but not for scientific quality. --Aschland (talk) 14:19, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you are going on about. And as for Gordon Williamson, I have never used him for citing; I cannot speak for others, as other editors have made edits/additions to this page over time. If you have a point to make or propose, please do so; talk pages are not for general discussions. Kierzek (talk) 15:11, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * These lengthy talk page posts are skirting the edge of WP:TALK violations. I dont really see whats going on with them either. -O.R.Comms 16:25, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new talk page section.  No further edits should be made to this section.

Superseding agencies?
The infobox lists as superseding agencies: Volkspolizei (E.Germany)
 * Federal Police Patch.svg Landespolizei (W.Germany)

This seems off -- I doubt that either of these agencies claims lineage to the Ordnungspolizei. Feedback? K.e.coffman (talk) 06:38, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Landespolizei sheepishly does to this day admit they are descended from Orpo. Their uniform regulations of the 1960s, and many of the awards and badges, were taken from Orpo directives of the 1930s.  As for East Germany, I think their police pretty much copied the structure of the Orpo onto themselves, not even bothering to change some of the names of the internal offices. -O.R.Comms 13:13, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Recent edit
I streamlined the infobox, with the following changes:
 * Removed one of the flag images; I believe that one is sufficient. I also revised the caption.
 * Streamlined ranks and details of the personnel included.
 * Replaced the image with a more relevant photo of the two executives most associated with the force.
 * Removed superseding agencies, per discussion above. There a section in the article Ordnungspolizei, but it's uncited and no direct descendency is noted. Best leave it out of the infobox, IMO.

Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:32, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the improvements, K.e.coffman, but I do have a problem with the change of the lead photograph. The original photograph was quite OK in my opinion. – Instead, we have now two talking heads. But the article is about a major Nazi German formation, not about some coffee-table book discussion. Wouldn't you agree?  Poeticbent  talk  00:55, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Image
The image in the previous version of the article was not that great either; it depicts a fairly non-descript group of ppl in uniform just standing about. The caption was "Kurt Daluege, chief of Ordnungspolizei (2nd from l.) with Adolf von Bomhard, Orpo Generalleutnant (3rd from l.) at the police academy at Rathenow, Havelland, in the autumn of 1940", which is not very informative.

I picked Daluege and Himmler as they represent the fusing of the SS and police forces. The two men were the driving force behind the transformation of the "beat cop" force into the instrument in the war of conquest and annihilation. Perhaps adding a sourced caption to this effect would alleviate some of the concerns?

I think the options here are rather limited as all we have are propaganda photographs. I'd be open to discussing any other images as potential choices. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Well, than perhaps looking at the Schutzstaffel (SS) article Infobox (per above) would give us some insight. These were major formations, I can't stress this enough. Order Police had grown to 244,500 men by mid-1940. Let's find the way of signifying that fact.  Poeticbent  talk 18:21, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

– that’s a lot of people.

K.e.coffman (talk) 05:03, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * BTW, I would be open to a collection of images in the infobox, similar to the SS article. K.e.coffman (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You gentlemen seem to have a good handle on this, so I leave it up to you guys; I do believe a collection of images, is a good idea. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 20:05, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Image choices
Kierzek (talk) 14:46, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you please propose images you consider significant for the new collage, similar to what I did (above), and maybe vote on the images already suggested. We need six (horizontal) photographs. Thanks,  Poeticbent  talk 05:05, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I would suggest these for the new collage:
 * 1) The current image in the info box of Daluege and Heinrich
 * 2) See photo - Biała Podlaska 1942 Biala Podlaska - likwidacja getta - 1942.jpg
 * 3) Number 3 above - Daluege, Gen.Mj. v. Bomhard, Oberst d. Pol. Winkler
 * 4) Number 5 above (l to r) - Polen, Krakau. Razzia von deutscher Ordnungspolizei, Kontrolle (Verhaftung?) von Juden
 * 5) Last one added by K.e.coffman above, 1943, Minsk.

 * I really like the 1943 image for the infobox, as it speaks to scale for me. Since it's a vertical image, could it work in place of two horizontal ones? In addition, the following four would work for me (same as Kierzek's).
 * 1) The current image in the infobox of Daluege and Heinrich
 * 2) Biala Podlaska - likwidacja getta - 1942.jpg
 * 3) Daluege, Gen.Mj. v. Bomhard, Oberst d. Pol. Winkler
 * 4) Polen, Krakau. Razzia von deutscher Ordnungspolizei, Kontrolle (Verhaftung?) von Juden
 * K.e.coffman (talk) 02:06, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Template:Photomontage does not accept vertical files. I tried numerous options yesterday night and got nowhere. Below is the Schutzstaffel photomontage ... next to my latest attempt at using the same template as is. The image # 5 won't fit in the same second row. The only choice I see is to produce a collage in Photoshop and upload it to Commons as one file.  Poeticbent  talk 23:22, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Poeticbent: Just do the best you can with the choices in getting them to piece together. Anyway to include the Polen, Krakau. Razzia von deutscher Ordnungspolizei, Kontrolle (Verhaftung?) von Juden, photo? I hate to leave that one out. We may have to move/put the vertical 1943, Minsk photo in a prominent place in the body of the article. What do you guys think? Kierzek (talk) 17:38, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I would be fine with 4 images (2X2) and putting the 1943 parade into the article, if the vertial image presents technical challenges. I think 4 in the infobox would be a good choice, as, beyond those we identified, the photos start getting repetitive. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:37, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * I would swap the 1943 parade image & place it on the right, rather than on the left -- the people on the right would provide nice framing, vs empty field that's on the left. The two stacked images would be on the left of the collage. Does this make sense? K.e.coffman (talk) 21:27, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Something like this maybe ?  Poeticbent  talk 21:52, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks okay to me, in this rough layout. Kierzek (talk) 21:58, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

May 2018 edit
Preserving here by providing this link. My rationale was: "c/e; wl; mv image for better placement; rm Bahnschutzpolizei as it's described as not being subordinated "to Hauptamt Ordnungspolizei, only the Deutsche Reichsbahn" & "unsourced OR / dubious" (about the Legacy section). --K.e.coffman (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Beobachtungsstellen
Beobachtungsstellen or Orpo intercept stations were known to exist. These were short-range intercept stations that sometimes included a component for Direction Finding (DF). They had these units in Spandau, Cologne, Constanta, Vienna, Nuremberg, Oldenburg. They never increased in capability, or territory. They had long-range Direction Finding stations in Brest and Tilsit, after occupation. When they invaded Norway, stations were established in Oslo, Drontheim, with mobile units known as Operations Sections, each with 7 or 8 vans short range DF, that were based in Tromso, Drontheim, Oslo, Bergen and Kristiansand. The other occupied countries were covered as well. The document is at: HW-34-2]. They often operated in conjunction with the Funkabwehr, the counter intelligence agency. scope_creep (talk) 11:02, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
 * They're performance was very poor, but they did exist in several countries, and they generated considerable friction between the OKW and Funkabwehr. scope_creep (talk) 11:19, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 11 October 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. No consensus to move. (non-admin closure) –Ammarpad (talk) 08:39, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Ordnungspolizei → Order Police – Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:ENGLISH. See Google ngram: ; between 1940 and 1980, Ordnungspolizei and Order Police track closely together, but starting in 1980s, Order Police becomes more prevalent. I think this is sufficient to privilege the English term. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:15, 11 October 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Favonian (talk) 08:18, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose No sufficient evidence has been presented to demonstrate that "Order Police", an Anglicisation, is the commonly-used name to refer to this Nazi agency. WP:UE does not mandate we use anglicisations, it mandates we follow majority-usage in English-language sources. Britannica uses Ordnungspolizei. Searches for "order police" return a lot of results about various personal and domestic violence prevention orders available from Police. AusLondonder (talk) 08:37, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Support That is their correct name, and even the British Army referred to them as the Order Police after the war. scope_creep (talk) 12:49, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose contrary to nom, a look in modern GBooks suggest the German name is used. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:50, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose The Schutzstaffel, Sturmabteilung, and Gestapo are known by their German names. While there is precedent for Nazi organizations to have translated English names, and I concede to the trend in English-language writing to "Order Police," I contend that as an SS functionary, the Ordnungspolizei should retain a German name. — Vami ♜  _IV♠  05:07, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I have given this quite a bit of thought over the last week or so, and it is true that some article titles have been changed to English translations, but in general they are ones that are lesser known and the German titles/spellings are not used to the same extent anymore. In this case, there are still plenty of English language reliable sources that use the German name for this main branch of the Nazi era and as stated, WP:UE does not mandate we use anglicisations. Kierzek (talk) 13:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The common name is Ordnungspolizei. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:05, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

No info on participation in the July 20 plot
Elements of Orpo were involved in the July 20 plot to kill Hitler with Berlin's Chief of Police Wolf-Heinrich Graf von Helldorff being executed for his participation - yet there's nothing about this in the article: this should be remedied. --82.181.143.171 (talk) 05:19, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2023
Adding the Bergpolizei as cited in Gordan Williamson's book. Kecesi (talk) 19:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Wandering  Morpheme   01:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I meant add the Bergpolizei to the Sonderpolizei section as it's mentioned in Gordan Williamson's book on Third Reich German Policing Units. Kecesi (talk) 04:05, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ordnungspolizei


text: User talk:138.88.38.148

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:138.88.38.148


text:
Arroyo Seco (Los Angeles County)

The Arroyo Seco, meaning "dry stream" in Spanish, is a 24.9 mi seasonal river, canyon, watershed, and cultural area in Los Angeles County, California. The area was explored by Gaspar de Portolà who named the stream Arroyo Seco as this canyon had the least water of any he had seen. During this exploration he met the Chief Hahamog-na (Hahamonga) of the Tongva Indians.

Waterway course
The watershed begins at Red Box Saddle in the Angeles National Forest near Mount Wilson in the San Gabriel Mountains. As it enters the urbanized area of the watershed, the Arroyo Seco stream flows between La Cañada Flintridge on the west and Altadena on the east. Just below Devil's Gate Dam, the stream passes underneath the Foothill Freeway. At the north end of Brookside Golf Course the stream becomes channelized into a flood control channel and proceeds southward through the golf course.

The Arroyo Seco goes through Pasadena, where it passes the Rose Bowl Stadium as it goes through Brookside Park. The Arroyo Seco stream, which is fed by a watershed of 46.7 sqmi, helps to replenish the Raymond Basin, an aquifer underlying Pasadena that provides about half of the local water supply. This arroyo is one of two major streams that capture rainfall and storm water in Pasadena, the other being Eaton Wash on the eastern side of the city, which is a tributary of the Rio Hondo watershed.

The Arroyo Seco then passes under the Ventura Freeway and the Colorado Street Bridge, and it crosses the Raymond Fault at the southern boundary of Pasadena at the San Rafael Hills. The channel continues along the western boundary of South Pasadena, then into northeast Los Angeles flowing southeast of the Verdugo Mountains and Mount Washington. The Arroyo Seco then proceeds through the Los Angeles neighborhoods of Highland Park, Hermon, Montecito Heights, and Cypress Park. It ends at the confluence with the Los Angeles River near Elysian Park, north of Dodger Stadium and Downtown Los Angeles.

The Arroyo Seco Parkway, or Pasadena Freeway, runs parallel to the channelized Arroyo Seco from South Pasadena to the Los Angeles River.

Traditional narrative
Above Devil's Gate, the rapids of the Arroyo Seco are positioned so that the falls make a beating, laughing sound. In Tongva-Gabrieliño traditional narratives, this is attributed to a wager made between the river and the coyote spirit.

Early settlement
The Arroyo Seco was one of the Los Angeles River tributaries explored by Gaspar de Portola in the late summer and fall of 1770. He named the stream Arroyo Seco, for of all the canyons he had seen, this one had the least water. During this exploration he met the Chief Hahamog-na (Hahamonga) near Millard Canyon, at the settlement later known as Hahamongna, California. This band of the Tongva Indians would end up gathered into the fold of the San Gabriel Mission and with other bands and tribes collectively called "Gabrielenos".

The Arroyo Seco region can be considered by historical accounts as the birthplace of Pasadena. After the 1820s secularization of the Missions, the broad area to the east of the Arroyo was the Mexican land grant of Rancho San Pascual, present-day Pasadena, California. Manuel Garfias was the grantee of the Rancho and its longest early resident. His adobe house was on the east ridge of the Arroyo, in present-day South Pasadena.

With the 1874 establishment of the community of the Indiana Colony, the new residents built their homes along today's Orange Grove Boulevard, the major north–south avenue paralleling the Arroyo on the east. However, the deep and seasonally flooded Arroyo presented a barrier to easy travel and transportation between renamed Pasadena and Los Angeles. Stories of four and five hours just crossing the chasm, whether exaggerated or not, abounded in Pasadena history.

The first recorded American to live in the Upper Arroyo (north of Devil's Gate) was simply known as "Old Man Brunk". Brunk's cabin stood at a large bend in the canyon, roughly where the Forest Service housing is today. It was said he left San Francisco "for that town's good".

Transportation corridor
Dating back to the original Tongva residents of the area, the Arroyo Seco canyon has always served as a major transportation corridor. Today it links downtown Los Angeles with Pasadena, the west San Gabriel Valley and the San Gabriel Mountains.

By 1886 the Los Angeles and San Gabriel Valley Railroad had been established from Downtown Los Angeles with a grand wooden trestle that cut a straight line crossing from the west side to the east. The wooden trestle was replaced with the Santa Fe Arroyo Seco Railroad Bridge. Eventually this line would hook up with rail lines built from the east to create the cross-country course of the Santa Fe Railroad. For local commutes, an electric traction trolley was put in and operated by the Pacific Electric Railway, a Henry E. Huntington enterprise, which ran the "Red Cars" from the upper Arroyo and Pasadena through the San Gabriel Valley into Los Angeles and many points beyond. The lower Arroyo Seco was served by the Los Angeles Railway "Yellow Car" lines.

In 1900 Horace Dobbins, Mayor of Pasadena, opened his innovative California Cycleway, an elevated wood structure with a flat planked surface that would allow bicyclers to travel from Pasadena to Los Angeles avoiding the uncertain schedules of the early trains. Dobbins was only able to build a two-mile portion of the cycleway from the Green Hotel to Raymond Hill before competition from the railroads and the growing popularity of the horseless carriage undermined the project. Present day cycling activists are reviving a vision and plan for a dedicated bikeway from Pasadena to Los Angeles. The Arroyo Seco bicycle path now runs from Highland Park to South Pasadena; the Kenneth Newell Bikeway continues the route through Pasadena.

In 1913 the Colorado Street Bridge was dedicated. This structure curves across the Arroyo accessing Eagle Rock, Glendale, and the San Fernando Valley. During the Stock Market Crash of 1929 and the subsequent Great Depression of the 1930s, the bridge was a jumping off point for many committing suicide, whereby it received the ignoble name of "Suicide bridge." By the 1980s the bridge fell into disrepair as chunks of concrete dropped from its face to the armory parking lot in the Arroyo below. In October 1989, the Colorado Street Bridge was closed as a precautionary measure in the aftermath of the San Francisco–Oakland Bay Bridge failure in the Loma Prieta earthquake. Eventually assistance from the Federal Bridge Repair and Replacement Fund and other local governmental agency discretionary funds provided funding for the complete restoration and seismic retrofit of the bridge. The total project budget amounted to $24 million, and the Colorado Street Bridge was reopened on December 13, 1993, on time and on budget.

Arroyo Seco Parkway
By mid-20th Century, the automobile had long become a mainstay of Southern California life. In 1940 the Arroyo Seco Parkway, the first freeway, was built as a parkway alongside the newly constructed flood channel in the Los Angeles portion of the Arroyo. Today, also known as the Pasadena Freeway, it continues on through downtown becoming the Harbor Freeway, and terminates near the harbor in San Pedro.

The Arroyo Seco Corridor Management Plan was completed for the "Arroyo Seco Parkway" in 2004. The Plan was created through a partnership with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, the National Scenic Byways Center (Federal Highways), Caltrans (State Highways), the National Park Service, the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, and The Center for Preservation Education and Planning (CPEP Inc.).

The Arroyo Seco Flood Control Channel, was built by the Works Progress Administration before and during construction of the parkway to avoid damages from future floods.

Floods and controls
The Arroyo Seco generally has a flow of several cubic feet per second, but periodically it is inundated by torrential floods from its steep, erosion-prone mountain watershed. The reputation of Arroyo Seco floods led the Spanish to site the original Pueblo de Los Ángeles away from the confluence of the Arroyo Seco and the Los Angeles River. Historically, these floods would race down the stream bed and overflow through Pasadena, South Pasadena, Alhambra and Los Angeles communities all the way to the Los Angeles River. As Los Angeles developed into a city and grew outwards, the damage from these floods was particularly severe in 1914 and 1916.

Devil's Gate Dam
In 1920, the Los Angeles County Flood Control District built the first flood control dam in Los Angeles County at Devil's Gate gorge. Named for a rock outcropping which resembles the face of a devil, this is the narrowest spot on the Arroyo Seco's course below Millard Canyon. The construction was by the Bent Brothers Company. Devil's Gate Dam in the Arroyo Seco in northern Pasadena between La Cañada Flintridge and Altadena is managed by the Los Angeles County Department of Public Works.

The flood basin above the dam captures the flows of the mountain watershed of the Arroyo Seco. This area is now called "Hahamongna", a phrase meaning "Flowing Waters, Fruitful Valley" in the language of the Tongva tribe who first inhabited the area. In 2011, the flood basin had filled with debris brought down after the 2009 Station Fire, reducing its effectiveness as a flood control measure. The County of Los Angeles conducted public hearings on the Environmental impact statement before selecting a method to remove debris from the Hahamongna area. In 2014, the Board of Supervisors approved a five-year project to remove 2.4 million cubic yards of sediment (2400000 cuyd) from the basin despite strong opposition from neighbors and recreational enthusiasts. The opponents contended that hundreds of trucks would be required that would increase pollution and noise. They also said that the wildlife habitat would be destroyed and interfere with hikers, cyclists and horseback riders who use the area for recreation. The alternative supported by Pasadena officials would have removed 1.4 million cubic yards of sediment (1400000 cuyd) and provided regular maintenance. County officials supported removing more sediment to reduce the flood risk for most major storms, the work having begun in early-2019.

Below Devil's Gate Dam, most of the Arroyo Seco creek, with two short exceptions, is contained in a concrete channel that contains stormwater and municipal runoff. This channel and other similar flood control structures throughout the Los Angeles Basin and along the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains were built following the devastating Los Angeles Flood of 1938.

Restoration programs

For more than one hundred years, the natural environment of the Arroyo Seco and its proximity to a large urban population have inspired efforts to protect, manage and preserve it. L.A. County flood control was first founded in an effort to control the wild waters of the Arroyo Seco and Charles Lummis founded the Arroyo Seco Foundation in 1905 for the purpose of preserving recreational use and habitat, residents in Los Angeles and Pasadena contributed generously to efforts to buy up open space in the great canyon to protect for future generations. There has been a series of studies conducted to assess and improve the management of the Arroyo Seco Watershed. These include:

Restoration goals

 * 1) Restore full flood control functions in the Arroyo Seco area.
 * 2) Better manage, optimize, and conserve water resources while improving water quality.
 * 3) Improve regional park recreational opportunities and enhance nature reserve open space.

The restoration efforts are being carried out by the County of Los Angeles and local cities, primarily the City of Pasadena.

Jet Propulsion Laboratory – NASA
Early rocket-engine-testing began in the Arroyo Seco in 1936 and this led to the establishment of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) at the mouth of the Arroyo Seco by the California Institute of Technology. During the 1950s, JPL was heavily involved in rocket testing, and the roar of rocket engines could be heard emanating from the Arroyo Seco area for miles. These rocket projects were terminated at the facility by 1958. By the mid-1960s, JPL had become instrumental in the development, launching, and tracking of a number of unmanned near-Earth and deep-space space probes for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. One notable project was the Mars rover, which has returned a number of panoramic photos of the Martian surface.

JPL has been criticized by regional environmentalists and the community for its water pollution of the local groundwater with toxic chemicals, such as solvents and perchlorate rocket fuel accelerants. A monumental cleanup project by NASA has begun, which includes a multimillion-dollar pumping and water filtration system to treat the groundwater, removing toxins until the aquifer contamination level has been reduced below their federally-specified limits. This project is carried out by a NASA project team and monitored by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Frequent public meetings are held with public comment, and recorded for the record on the quality and progress of the clean-up.

Trout Restoration
Before channelization, the Arroyo Seco was a spawning habitat for Southern Steelhead, the Anadromous form of rainbow trout. The Arroyo was home to a resident rainbow trout population until at least 2009, when mudslides following the Station Fire (2009) were thought to have wiped out the population. In November 2020, the California Department of Fish and Wildlife transplanted almost 500 trout from the West Fork San Gabriel River, definitively re-establishing the presence of native trout in the stream.

Crossings
From mouth to source (year built in parentheses):

 * Railroad
 * North Avenue 19 - twin bridges (1956)
 * North San Fernando Road (1913)
 * - Golden State Freeway and ramps (1962)
 * West Avenue 26 (1939)
 * Southbound State Route 110 ramp to Interstate 5 (1962)
 * Interstate 5 ramp to northbound State Route 110 (1962)
 * Cypress Avenue [Pedestrian Bridge] (1961)
 * Avenue 35 Railroad Bridge carrying Metro A Line (1940 )
 * Pasadena Avenue (1940)
 * State Route 110 ramps to East Avenue 43 (1940)
 * East Avenue 43 (1939)
 * Sycamore Grove Park [Pedestrian Bridge] (1940)
 * South/East Avenue 52 (1940)
 * Via Marisol [originally Hermon Avenue] (1940)
 * [Pedestrian Bridge]
 * South Avenue 60 (1909)
 * State Route 110 ramps to South Avenue 60 (1940)
 * Santa Fe Arroyo Seco Railroad Bridge carrying Metro A Line (1896)
 * Marmion Way (1940) and California 110 Offramp (1940)
 * York Boulevard (1912)
 * - Arroyo Seco Parkway (formerly Pasadena Freeway) (1939)
 * San Pasqual Avenue (1939)
 * Dirt road
 * South San Rafael Avenue (1922)
 * La Loma Road (1914)
 * Lower Arroyo Park dirt road
 * Lower Arroyo Park [Pedestrian Bridge] (1914 )
 * Colorado Street Bridge carrying West Colorado Boulevard (1913)
 * - Ventura Freeway (1953)
 * North Arroyo Boulevard (1927)
 * West Holly Street (1925)
 * Seco Street (1939)
 * Rose Bowl Parking Lot [2 Pedestrian Bridges]
 * Brookside Golf Course [7 Pedestrian Bridges]
 * West Washington Boulevard (1939)
 * Brookside Golf Course [Pedestrian Bridge]
 * - Foothill Freeway (1974)
 * Oak Grove Drive (1955)
 * Devil's Gate Dam
 * Explorer Road
 * Forest Route 2N70 (2002)

Upper Arroyo – mountains section

To many, the Arroyo Seco is one of the most popular hiking spots in Southern California. The mountainous part of the Arroyo Seco is located within the Angeles National Forest. Angeles Crest Highway skirts the western edge of the Arroyo Seco Canyon.

The following is a list of Forest Service facilities in the Upper Arroyo, from south to north:

 * Forest Service Employee Housing w/ attached public hitching rail and horse trough
 * Teddy's Outpost Picnic Area
 * Gould Mesa Campground
 * Niño Picnic Area
 * Paul Little Picnic Area
 * Oakwilde Campground
 * Commodore Perry Switzer Trail Camp
 * Switzer's Picnic Area
 * Red Box Station (at the canyon's head)
 * Switzer Falls
 * Dawn Mine
 * Bear Canyon
 * Millard Canyon – Millard Canyon Falls

Millard Canyon, located near the mouth of the Arroyo, is a delightful canyon with an impressive waterfall. Sunset Ridge The trail skirts the eastern side of the canyon, the eastern boundary of the Arroyo Seco Watershed. Millard Canyon was a major pedestrian thoroughfare for Tongva, Serrano people, and other Californian Native Americans traveling between the Los Angeles Basin coastal plain, the San Gabriel Mountains, and the Mojave Desert regions of Southern California.

Brown Mountain Truck Trail, which begins near the confluence of El Prieto Canyon and proceeds across the front range of the San Gabriel Mountains to upper Millard Canyon, offers impressive vistas of the San Gabriel Valley. The Burton Trail descends from this road to the upper stretches of the Arroyo near Oakwilde Campground.

The Gabrielino Trail, which is a popular journey for hikers, equestrians and bicyclists, travels up the steep canyon. A popular hike on the Gabrielino Trail is the 4 mile round trip to lower Switzer Falls from Switzer Picnic area.

Lower Arroyo – urban section

 * Jet Propulsion Laboratory NASA
 * Oak Grove Disc Golf Course
 * Hahamongna Watershed Park – (formerly "Oak Grove Park")
 * Devil's Gate Dam
 * Brookside Golf Course
 * Rose Bowl – stadium and flea market
 * Brookside Park
 * Kidspace Children's Museum
 * Colorado Street Bridge
 * Hotel Vista Del Arroyo – United States 9th District Court of Appeals
 * Lower Arroyo Park Archery Range
 * Pasadena Roving Archers
 * Pasadena Casting Club
 * Lower Arroyo Seco Historic District, including the Batchelder House – Arts and Crafts Movement
 * Arroyo Seco Parkway
 * Los Angeles Metro Rail A Line (Bridge crossing and Highland Park station)
 * Southwest Museum of the American Indian
 * "El Alisal" – Lummis House – historic home museum and native plants gardens.
 * Heritage Square Museum – historic Victorian houses park.
 * Los Angeles River Center and Gardens Park
 * Confluence of the Arroyo Seco and Los Angeles River

title: Arroyo Seco (Los Angeles County)


text:
Pitchfork (album)

Pitchfork is the debut EP by American rock band Clutch, released on vinyl 7" & 12" in October 1991 only in the US.

Recording and release
There was the standard black vinyl pressing of the album, in 7" & 12". It also had a gold and a clear pressing (both rare), plus some misprinted versions, all only numbering in the 100s. It was released on the now defunct label 'Inner Journey Records'.

The 12" version had the extra track "Pile Driver", which would be released again on the EP Impetus, the reissue of Passive Restraints, their second EP. The tracks that form the EP were eventually reissued on the compilation album, Pitchfork & Lost Needles, which released in 2005, making it nearly 15 years since most people had heard the songs.

Mark Stanley and Scott Crawford also played guitar on the album and would both collaborate with the band again in later years.

Background
The debut from Clutch was released in the beginnings of the Stoner Rock era of Sleep and Kyuss, but is considered a Punk/Heavy Metal/Hardcore album, as this is what the band members identified more with at the time.

It was not able to be purchased for some years, except as a second hand EP. Except in live sets by the band, the tracks were not heard by most fans until 1999, with its reissue on CD. It would also be the first of many recordings done with Larry "Uncle Punchy" Packer as the producer/engineer over the course of the band's career.

Track listing
All tracks written by Clutch.

Personnel

 * Neil Fallon – vocals
 * Tim Sult – guitars
 * Dan Maines – bass
 * Jean-Paul Gaster – drums
 * Mark Stanley – guitars
 * Scott Crawford – guitars

 * Production
 * Produced by Lawrence Packer at Uncle Punchy Studios, Silver Spring, Maryland

title: Pitchfork (album)


text:
User:Please Don't Block

I am the main author of the following articles (under other usernames):

Roe v. Wade, featured article.

William O. Douglas

Byron White

Lewis F. Powell

Arthur Goldberg

Miranda v. Arizona

Roth v. United States

Sherman Minton

Texas v. Johnson

Jacobellis v. Ohio

Miller v. California

John Hart Ely-- created from thin air

J. Thomas Heflin

Griswold v. Connecticut

Baker v. Carr

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District

John Marshall Harlan

others

I have contributed substantially to the following:

Louis Brandeis

Abraham Lincoln

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Felix Frankfurter

Ruth Bader Ginsburg

Stephen Breyer

John Paul Stevens

Eugene Volokh

William Rehnquist

others

title: User:Please Don't Block


text:
DN2

DN2 (Drumul Național 2) is a national road in Romania which links Bucharest with the historical regions of Moldavia and Bukovina in north-east Romania. Recently upgraded, it is today one of the best-maintained roads in the country. The main cities linked by the DN2 are: Bucharest, Buzău, Focșani, Bacău, Roman, and Suceava.

Along the first 350 km from Bucharest to Săbăoani, near Roman the road has two lanes with one narrow emergency lane and reconstructed bridges, works which were conducted between 1993 and 2000. The road continues to Siret, at the Ukrainian border as a simple two-lanes road. Together with the adjacent section of DN28, Săbăoani – Iași, part of E583, the DN2 is currently Moldavia's backbone.

The DN2 is also considered Romania's most dangerous trunk road. The road has high accident rates, and the Bucharest–Săbăoani section is the most affected, due to drivers improperly using the emergency lanes. This has prompted the CNAIR (formerly CNADNR, the Romanian National Road Company) to upgrade a segment to a 2+1 road near the Sinești forest, the first 2+1 road in Romania. This upgrade was made in 2019, and due to the resulting low accident rates, it has been demanded that the rest of DN2 between Bucharest and Săbăoani, as well as DN28 to Iași be converted to a 2+1 road also.

The A7 motorway, together with the Bucharest – Ploiești section of the A3 motorway, will serve as a safer and high-speed alternative to the DN2 and will take part of traffic using the road when completed.

title: DN2


text:
Stephnie Weir

Stephnie Carmel Weir (born November 28, 1967) is an American actress, comedian, and writer. She is best known for being a main cast member and writer on the Fox sketch comedy television series Mad TV from 2000 to 2005, for which she got two Writers Guild of America Award nominations. She had starring roles on several short-lived television sitcoms, including Big Day (2006–2007), The Comedians (2015), and Happy Together (2018–2019), and starred in the 2017 comedy film Room for Rent.

Career
Weir was a consulting producer for the comedy series Raising Hope. She also appeared in Disney's Godmothered.

Counter Culture
Counter Culture is a comedy series created by Weir that was in development for the American Broadcasting Company (ABC). The pilot follows three aging sisters running their family diner together in West Texas. ABC ordered the pilot on January 30, 2012. The ensemble cast included Kerri Kenney-Silver, Delta Burke and Emmy Award winning actresses Margo Martindale and Doris Roberts. The pilot was directed by Ted Wass.

Original characters

 * Angela Wright
 * Dot Goddard
 * Dorothy Lanier
 * Dr. Kylie Johnson
 * Gail Cinder
 * Kat
 * Kelly/Wendy Shank
 * Lillie Hubscher
 * Mackenzie Shaw
 * Mattie Lutz
 * Mrs. Leona Campbell
 * Muriel Westig
 * Rebecca Finkleberg/Zamula Kincaid
 * Sherri
 * Thelma Strom
 * Vera Magnus

Celebrity impressions

 * Amber Benson
 * Anna Nicole Smith
 * Anne Hathaway
 * Anson Williams
 * Barbara Walters
 * Betty White
 * Beverley Mitchell (as Lucy Camden in 7th Heaven)
 * Billie Burke (as Glinda the Good Witch of the North in The Wizard of Oz)
 * Christie Brinkley
 * Courtney Love
 * Camilla Parker Bowles
 * Darva Conger
 * Diane Keaton
 * Dido
 * Evangeline Lilly
 * Farrah Fawcett
 * Hilary Duff
 * Jane Krakowski (as Elaine Vassal in Ally McBeal)
 * Jann Carl
 * JC Chasez
 * Jennifer Aniston (as Rachel Green in Friends)
 * Jennifer Morrison
 * Judge Marilyn Milian
 * Julia Stiles
 * Kathryn Morris (as Lilly Rush in Cold Case)
 * Laura Bush
 * Leonard Nimoy
 * Lil' Kim
 * Marcia Cross (as Bree Van de Kamp in Desperate Housewives)
 * Martha Stewart
 * Martie Maguire (of The Chicks)
 * Melanie Griffith
 * Reba McEntire
 * Rue McClanahan
 * Tiffany Brissette
 * Victoria Gotti
 * Wynonna Judd

title: Stephnie Weir


text:
Hans-Valentin Hube

Hans-Valentin Hube (29 October 1890 – 21 April 1944) was a German general during World War II who commanded armoured forces in the invasions of Poland, France and the Soviet Union. In the course of the war, Hube led the 16th Infantry Division, XIV Panzer Corps, and the 1st Panzer Army rising to the rank of Generaloberst. He died in an air crash on 21 April 1944.

Early career
Hans-Valentin Robert Friedrich Hube was born on 29 October 1890, in Naumburg an der Saale, German Empire to Margarete and Richard Hube. Hube volunteered for military service in the Prussian Army in 1909, and served during World War I where he saw action during the Race to the Sea, and was awarded the Iron Cross 2nd Class and the Knight's Cross of the House Order of Hohenzollern. He had an arm amputated as a result of injuries sustained at the battle of Verdun. In 1918, following the end of the war which ended with the German Empire's defeat and subsequent collapse, Hube briefly served with the right-wing Freikorps paramilitary during the instability. Hube joined the Reichswehr, the successor of the Imperial German Army after the establishment of the Weimar Republic, and continued his army service in the Wehrmacht after the founding of Nazi Germany, reaching the rank of Oberst in 1936.

World War II
Hube took part in the invasion of Poland and the Battle of France as a regimental commander. During the war with France he issued a pamphlet to his soldiers stating "the deployment of black and colored troops against the German army contradicts the conception of the white race's master role towards the colored people" and that it is "a shame and dishonor, all the more so because our division has had to wage the hardest fights against the Negroes".

Hube was appointed commander of 16th Infantry Division in June 1940. As commander of the 16th Panzer Division, he took part in Operation Barbarossa as part of Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt's Army Group South. For this action during the campaign, Hube received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross. On 16 January 1942, he was awarded the Oak leaves to the Knight's Cross for his actions in the Battle of Kiev. Hube then led the division during Fall Blau and the Battle of Stalingrad. On 16 September 1942, Hube was given command of XIV Panzer Corps, the parent formation of the 16th Panzer Division.

Hube commanded the XIV Corps during the Soviet counter-offensive, Operation Uranus. He was promoted to General der Panzertruppe and received the Swords to the Knight's Cross with Oak leaves from Adolf Hitler personally on 21 December 1942. During his time at the Führer-Headquarters in Rastenburg, Hube argued strongly, but to no avail, for Hitler to allow the 6th Army to attempt a breakout. Instead, Hitler promised a new relief attack beginning in the middle of February.

After the destruction of the 6th Army, Hube was sent to the Mediterranean front. He created Gruppe Hube in Sicily, a four-division force whose task was to defend the island. With the advent of Operation Husky on 10 July, Hube commanded the overall German defence. On 17 July 1943 Hube was given command of all army and Flak troops on the island. Hube organised the evacuation to the Italian peninsula. He had prepared a strong defensive line, the 'Etna Line' around Messina, that would enable the Germans to make a progressive retreat while evacuating large parts of his army to the mainland. George S. Patton began his assault on the line at Troina, but it was a linchpin of the defense and stubbornly held. Despite three 'end run' amphibious landings the Germans managed to keep the bulk of their forces beyond reach of capture, and maintain their evacuation plans. Withdrawing a large number of troops from the threat of capture on Sicily represented a major success for the Axis. Hube later took part in the battles defending positions at Salerno during the Allied Operation Avalanche.

Afterwards Hube was moved back to Germany and transferred to the Führerreserve. On 23 October 1943, Hube was designated commander of the 200,000 man 1st Panzer Army, then serving with Army Group South under Field Marshal Erich von Manstein. In February 1944, Hube was officially confirmed as commander of the 1st Panzer Army. Shortly after, III Panzer Corps, one of Hube's units, was required to assist German forces breaking out of the Korsun-Cherkassy pocket. Soon after this, Hube's force was encircled in a pocket near Kamenets-Podolsky. Hube led the breakout which lasted from 27 March 1944 until 15 April 1944.

Death

On 20 April 1944, Hube returned to Germany to attend Adolf Hitler’s 55th birthday celebrations at the Obersalzberg, where Hitler personally awarded him the Diamonds to the Knight's Cross, one of just 27 recipients, and promoted him to Generaloberst for his actions in Sicily, Salerno, and in the Kamenets-Podolsky pocket. Hube was killed the following day when the Heinkel He 111 that was transporting him from Reichenhall-Berchtesgaden Airport in Ainring to the Eastern Front crashed shortly after take-off on 21 April 1944. His adjutant, Major von Schwanenfeld was not on the flight as he was going on leave. Walther Hewel who was also in the aircraft, survived, though he was badly injured.

Hube was given a state funeral attended by Adolf Hitler in Berlin on 26 April 1944. His coffin was laid out in the Reich Chancellery, and the eulogy was delivered by Heinz Guderian. The guard of honour consisted of the generals Walther Nehring, Hermann Breith, Heinrich Eberbach and Hans Gollnick. Hube was buried at the Invalids' Cemetery in Berlin.

Personal life
Hube married Annamarie Elisabeth Klara Helene Kosak in Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt on 5 September 1919. His wife who was born on 23 November 1894 died in Magdeburg on 11 April 1922. The couple had at least two children, Rose-Maria (28 June 1920 – 4 November 2014) and Ulrich Valentin Richard Hube (29 July 1921 – 24 July 1941). Hube subsequently married Wilhelmine Luise Klara Philippine Ruth Bollert in Berlin on 30 January 1925. Wilhelmine was born on 22 Mar 1902 and died on 1 March 1942.

Hube's son Ulrich was serving as a lieutenant when he was killed near Michalkina on the Eastern Front in 1941.

Rose-Maria married Fritz von Randow (18 July 1908 – 1 April 1995) on 29 December 1942. At Hiller’s request Randow changed his name to "von Randow-Hube" so that the Hube name would live on following the death of Hube’s son. The couple had a daughter in 1943 and a son in 1945. Following the end of the war, Randow dropped the "Hube" from his name. Rose-Maria and von Randow divorced on 1 September 1959.

Awards

 * Iron Cross (1914) 2nd Class (1915) & 1st Class (1916)
 * Knight's Cross of the House Order of Hohenzollern with Swords (1918)
 * Clasp to the Iron Cross (1939) 2nd Class (24 May 1940) & 1st Class (3 June 1940)
 * Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds
 * Knight's Cross on 1 August 1941 as Generalmajor and commander of the 16th Panzer Division
 * 62nd Oak Leaves on 16 January 1942 as Generalmajor and commander of the 16th Panzer Division
 * 22nd Swords on 21 December 1942 as Generalleutnant and commanding general of the XIV Panzer Corps
 * 13th Diamonds on 20 April 1944 as General der Panzertruppe and commander in chief of the 1st Panzer Army
 * Promoted to Generalleutnant on 1 January 1942; General der Panzertruppe on 1 October 1942; Generaloberst on 20 April 1944

title: Hans-Valentin Hube


text:
Talk:Nanometre

Untitled
hello nanometers are cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.27.46 (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the definition is incorrect because of the different definitions of a billion in American (10^9) and British (10^12) English. A nanometer is a billionth of a meter but a milliardth of a metre. I hope someone can fix this. Similar mistake for the picometer.

I also wonder why it automatically takes you to nanometre if I look up nanometer? Isn't Wikipedia an American-based website? Is metre more correct than meter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.116.232.233 (talk) 19:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

This article helped for my science homework. ;) thanks.
 * Good - that's what Wikipedia is all about. 86.27.92.162 10:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Diagram
On Picometre there's a diagam of a helium atom which gives an idea of perspective. Any suggestions for a similar type of diagram in this article? 86.27.92.162 10:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

British vs. US spellings
I do not like all the English spellings taking predominance over the US spellings. Far more scientists, semiconductor manufacturers and users of small measurements are in the US. Any objections to changing these pages to predominant US spellings, redirecting from the British spellings? --68.73.203.92 01:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes.

Lazyguythewerewolf. Rawr. 20:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

UNITS

Whether the individual reader, in this case, likes or dislikes the use of a word be it in English (U.S.) or English (U.K.) is irrelevant. According to Microsoftspeak there existed since year 2000, 18 varieties if English; there may be more in this 2009!

The use of billion is equally pointless due to ambiguity (dealt with comprehensively within the pages of "Wikipedia."); therefore, when describing quantities that are of a scientific or engineering nature, and to avoid such ambiguity, the development and standardisation of the SI system of UNITS eliminated it, thus removing all argument regarding the common-or-garden usage to define quantities e.g. as we find in the use of English

Moreover, when one discovers terms like Nano and Billionth, used in the same sentence or breath, one is exposed to pure nonsense because they are not universally or, more to the point, internationally recognised as being equivalent.

The metre is of French origin and is spelled as such. The French broached the unit around the time of the French revolution, when Americans, per se, were no where nearly as sophisticated in matters scientific or in engineering. Therefore, the term meter is a corrupt spelling of the true "Metre" as it is internationally recognised under the ISO(SI) standard.

To end the discussion: Use of the abbreviated UNITS as identified by the SI system standard further eliminates all individuals' preferences with regard to irrelevant spelling (i.e. spelling, which is beside the point).

--Rolandos8751 (talk) 13:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia standards for spellings on en.wikipedia.org say that words must be spelled as written in American, not as in British. So if the justification for the article name is "international units are specified in French", then we definitely should not be using 'metre', as this is never seen in American government, commerce, or private life except from sources that originated overseas. "Nanometre" is a strange spelling to American eyes, and would be considered an "Artistic" european-style spelling, an ignorant american's spelling, a foriegn-sourced spelling, or a typo. The current redirection from article 'Nanometer' to 'Nanometre' should be reversed. Ace Frahm (talk) 02:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

picturing a nanometer
A friend of mine sent me an email last summer about nanotechnology -etc. He included this explanation: If the distance between New York and Los Angeles was a 'meter' then at this scale:
 * A human cell is about the size of a basketball court
 * Nanotechnology deals with objects smaller then a basketball
 * A nanometer is the size of an ant —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calixte (talk • contribs) 16:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

 * That seems a bit farfetched. That would mean the 65nm chips currently in, say, the XBox 360, are smaller than a human cell (Although there are a bunch of different types of human cells). Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Zellthemedic (talk) 01:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The distance between Los Angeles and New York is 2,462 miles [1]. One billionth of this is very close to 4 millimeters (3.96220493 millimeters). Calixte's friend seems to be right, although I suppose it depends on what kind of ant. James Lednik (talk) 00:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

 * [1] Source: http://www.laalmanac.com/transport/tr53.htm

But what does it mean to say you have a "65 nm" chip? It means not that the entire chip is just 65 nm, but that the smallest components on that chip--perhaps the spacing between wires, or the transistors--are 65 nm. The whole chip altogether may be, I don't know, 1 cm^2. At least that's how I understand it, but I could easily be mistaken. --Singularitarian (talk) 06:39, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * What I had confused was the actual CPU. The actual CPU itself is 65nm, not the die (What the CPU is mounted on). Zellthemedic (talk) 08:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Apparently "65nm" chip means that the gate line widths (whatever those are) or transistors in the chip are 65nm. I don't believe there is any current method of producing electronics capable of such complex computations as current microprocessors at nanometer scales.  See http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_45nm_technology_node_mean and especially http://www.edn.com/article/CA6493083.html 70.181.77.182 (talk) 02:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

We Have Feet/Inches/etc. in america... but going lower than inches makes us metric?
I just don't understand to be honest. 24.240.67.71 (talk) 04:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

 * The "United States of AMERICA" has been officially metric since 1866. However, the "Customary" ENGLISH (pre-Imperial) measuring system is used in general non-scientific AMERICAN life. If you don't understand it, it doesn't make any difference to your life as you don't need to use or understand it.--TGC55 (talk) 11:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I think, traditionally, inches get broken up into halves, quarters, ... 1/64ths, etc. That's how machine parts are done. Kindof weird how, with numbers > 1, we naturally use decimal, but numbers < 1, we use binary, of sorts.

On the other hand, you can use decimal inches, as used by gun barrel diameters. OsamaBinLogin (talk) 04:37, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

pronouciation
I've always pronounced it 'Nano Meters', but can you pronounce it na-NOM-eter like you can with kilometer? OsamaBinLogin (talk) 04:37, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

The nano world
The nanoword 2406:2D40:90D0:2F10:B086:5271:65FD:DEFB (talk) 16:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nanometre


text: User talk:154.20.45.197

title: User talk:154.20.45.197


text:
Talk:Body type (exercise)

Added
Added section Ectomorph Training. 20/04/2005. Hello, i'm a student from a school in thailand, st.andrews international school, i am doing a course work about muscular power and body types, i would like to know if any body could give me or send me any information about these topics, my physical education teacher asked me about these subject, he sent me to the computer room to research about these topics, i spent 2 hours and a half on researching and nothing interesting about my topics, could any body please help me and inform me as fast as possible. thank you. somchai T. --

I removed the part of the first sentence that claimed this classification belongs to human biology and sport science. Firstly, as far as I can see not only is this article about the use of this classification what weight training/body building regards - no other aspects are mentioned as important. Secondly, ectomorphic, endomorphic and mesomorphic body types were regarded science in the 1940s, when the focus was that each body type would correspond to a certain temperament; today this is not seen as science. If the major link to science these words have are their originator William Sheldon and his somatotypes, then this is not much.

I would really like to see that these terms today are used outside of weight training, and in the academia, before human biology and sports science is put back in the article. /Habj 13:37, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Disputed tag
This article has no references; is it someone's opinion, or is this actual science? If it's just a guideline or method used by fitness experts/enthusiasts, that should be made much more clear. At the very least it should be referenced, and preferably include a couple of reputable outside links to indicate how widespread and legitimate this system of categorisation is, and in what type of community (health, fitness, alternative health, science, medicine etc).--Anchoress 11:03, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * As Habj says above, the somatotype theory was developed by a scientist, and was once taken seriously by the scientific community. It has since fallen into disrepute in that community, especially the personality portion. However, the thesis has be found to be a very useful model to those trying to increase muscle bulk. Thus the physical aspect of the theory (the content of this page) has some place in the world of science - at least until someone comes up with a better model. With some recent testosterone studies in mind, there may be a correlation between the types, Sheldon's assigned personalities, and levels of androgens and estrogens. But I don't know of any studies on that correlation unfortanately. matturn 06:41, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Disputed?
It seems more that the premise of somatotyping is disputed here, not the article's content or coverage of the premise itself. I haven't seen anyone describe how the article itself incorrectly describes the different body types or the associated qualities.

On the other hand, I have introduced a merge proposal, as most of this information is either redundant or should be removed. See the related discussion thread here. Kafziel 20:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Body type (exercise)


text: User talk:68.13.138.96

title: User talk:68.13.138.96


text: User talk:202.163.247.146

title: User talk:202.163.247.146


text:
Zlatko Mateša

Zlatko Mateša (born 17 June 1949) is a Croatian politician who served as Prime Minister of Croatia from 1995 to 2000. A member of the Croatian Democratic Union, Mateša is currently the president of the Croatian Olympic Committee and honorary consul of Mongolia in Croatia.

Mateša was born and grew up in Zagreb, then Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia, and obtained a law degree at the University of Zagreb in 1974. He worked in INA since 1978, where he rose through the ranks to the position of an assistant director. He was friends with Nikica Valentić, Mladen Vedriš and Franjo Gregurić.

In 1990, he entered politics and became a high-ranking HDZ member, along with the aforementioned group. President Franjo Tuđman named him the sixth President of the Government on 4 November 1995. The Mateša government is perhaps best remembered for the introduction of the value-added tax, which originated from the previous government before being put to effect from 1996 under Mateša's government. In 1998, the tax rate was fixed for all products at 22%. The finance minister in the Cabinet of Zlatko Mateša was Borislav Škegro.

In the 2000 Croatian parliamentary election he was elected into the Sabor and served until the end of 2003.

Since 2002, Mateša is the president of the Croatian Olympic Committee (HOO). In 2009, Mateša obtained a Ph.D. degree from Beijing Sport University.

title: Zlatko Mateša


text:
Free Man in Paris

"Free Man in Paris" is a song written by Canadian singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell. It appeared on her 1974 album Court and Spark, as well as her 1980 live album Shadows and Light. It is ranked No. 470 on Rolling Stone's list of the 500 Greatest Songs of All Time.

Background
The song is about music agent/promoter David Geffen, a close friend of Mitchell in the early 1970s, and describes Geffen during a trip the two made to Paris with Robbie Robertson and Dominique Robertson. While Geffen is never mentioned by name, Mitchell describes how he works hard creating hits and launching careers but can find some peace while vacationing in Paris. Mitchell sings "I was a free man in Paris. I felt unfettered and alive. Nobody calling me up for favors. No one's future to decide."

Reception
Billboard described it as having a "good mix of acoustic and electric instrumentals" with Mitchell's "distinctive vocals." Cash Box said that "lyrically, this is a total gem and the musical arrangement is letter perfect" and that "the melody is infectious." Record World said that with this song Mitchell "needs no aid other than a healthy ear from American hit-pickers to ensure her yet another triumph."

Bob Dylan selected it for inclusion on the Starbucks compilation album Joni Mitchell: Selected Songs in 2005. For the album's liner notes, Dylan wrote: "I always liked this song because I'd been to Paris and understood what being a free man there was all about. Paris was, after all, where freedom and the guillotine lived side by side. I'm not so sure that the meaning I heard in the song was what Joni intended but I couldn't stop listening to it".

Chart performance
"Free Man in Paris" went to number 22 on the Billboard Hot 100 and to number two on the Easy Listening chart.

Notable versions and covers

 * In the 1970s, an instrumental version of the song was the theme music used for CBC Television's The Saturday Evening News, which aired at 6 p.m. until 1982 when it was replaced with Saturday Report.
 * Aimee Mann
 * Neil Diamond
 * Sufjan Stevens (on the album A Tribute to Joni Mitchell)
 * Adrienne Young
 * Phish
 * Alanis Morissette
 * JoJo who changed the title to "White Girl in Paris".
 * In April 2000 the song was performed by Elton John at a celebration of Mitchell, at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York, staged by the TNT network.

Personnel

 * Joni Mitchell – vocals, guitars
 * Tom Scott – woodwinds
 * José Feliciano, Larry Carlton – electric guitars
 * Wilton Felder – bass
 * John Guerin – drums
 * David Crosby and Graham Nash – backing vocals

title: Free Man in Paris