text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Jim Robinson

Please see link to this article's talk page for further material relevant to this discussion and decision

 * Actually JC, the "dispute" on this one is largely a unilateral creation of your own activity. You have been asked many times by both myself and others on the discussion page of this article at Talk:Jim Robinson to argue your case for the merging you seek. Rather than responding, your activity thus far has centered around your personal disputes with another wikipedia editor and unnecessarily combative rants about how you believe that editor to have wronged you in some way. As may be also seen from that discussion, not only have you resisted those requests to make your case, preferring instead to pursue your combative personal disputes with other editors, you have also largely ignored and neglected the views of other participants in that discussion who have made a case AGAINST your unilaterally exercised decision to merge the two articles. As of the last count, participants in that discussion who opposed your merging outnumbered those who supported it. Rangerdude 04:49, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Rangerdude, dammit, will you please stop trying to make the discussion center around me and the oh-so-evil unilateral merge I did when I tried to be bold rather than the merits of the article? I brough the dispute here because you couldn't help repeatedly attacking me on the talk page, hoping that perhaps you might see that this is the VfD page, and discussion here should be about whether articles should be deleted/merged/kept.
 * Thankyou. To the rest of you, my apologies for the outburst. --Jonathan Christensen 04:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * JC - Whether you admit it or not, both of your merges were indeed unilateral and the second was made AFTER the first was reverted and you were asked by several people to justify your desire to change it. Furthermore, your "bold" action came barely even half an hour after the article's creation, meaning most people did not even have the time to see it before you went about changing it. I gave you several opportunities to make your case as did others. You refused them all. Pointing that fact out is not "attacking" you, JC, even though it is criticizing you for failing to work with others on a proposed change and failing to even acknowledge the fact that most of the people who weighed in on the talk page were against your position. You are also wrong that the VfD page should include discussions about whether articles should be merged. Wikipedia's VfD policy EXPLICITLY says that VfD's are NOT the way to handle merge requests. This has also been pointed out to you both here and on the talk page of the Jim Robinson article, but just like you ignored everybody else's request that you justify your two unilateral mergings, you've also chosen to ignore the fact that you posted a VfD tag in conflict with wikipedia policy over what you seek to do. You complain that the discussion has turned to you now, but did you have any reason to expect that it wouldn't? The discussion turned to you because you are the only one editing the Jim Robinson page who refuses to participate in it as a collaborative consensus-based effort and basically ignores everybody else there. Instead you just plow ahead with whatever you damn well please even when standing objections have been raised against your actions. You need to learn to work with other people, JC. That is my point. Rangerdude 05:24, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So please, chime in. For the time being, I vote merge : the information is good, but most of it belongs on the other page. --Jonathan Christensen 06:52, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * As User:Rangerdude is all huffed that my use of VfD in this case is inappropriate because I voted merge, I hereby officially change my vote to delete. Careful what you wish for, my fine friend. --Jonathan Christensen 04:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * That being the case, then you need to delete this article, reformulate a completely NEW VfD request in compliance with the Wikipedia VfD Guide, and post it with the new tag and your vote. Changing the question on the ballot midway through the discussion necessarily corrupts the results. I anticipate and hope you will politely comply with this in short order. Otherwise others will have to do it for you. Rangerdude 05:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * There's no need for this bureaucratic instruction creep. Amendments happen all the time. Radiant_* 13:42, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

In reviewing the wikipedia VfD policy, I am of the belief that this entire exercise is an abuse of VfD. As I understand it,, the Wikipedia VfD Guide clearly states:
 * This request is a VfD Abuse
 * Before nominating an article please check the deletion policy to see what things are not reasons for deletion, consider whether you are actually wanting the article to be merged, expanded, or cleaned up rather than deleted, and use the appropriate mechanism instead of VFD

Furthermore, this request conflicts with the Deletion_policy, which SPECIFICALLY lists proposed merging among its table of problems that DO NOT require a deletion and should not be resolved via VfD. In light of this and pending no other good reason to continue this process, the VfD tag placed on this article needs to be removed in compliance with the VfD process. The merge that JC apparently seeks, but which the majority of editors on that discussion page to date have opposed, should be debated there. Rangerdude 04:40, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * No personal attacks is also policy. I'd suggest you read it before accusing people of abuse. Radiant_* 13:42, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Talk:Jim Robinson. I'd suggest you read it and see how JC initiated the personal attacks while simultaneously engaging in unilateral edits against the wishes of the majority before passing that allegation onto others. Rangerdude 15:03, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'll be glad to change my vote to delete, then. Problem solved! --Jonathan Christensen 04:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Then restart the VfD process, this time following Wikipedia's procedures Rangerdude 15:03, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Katefan0 - at least three separate people have attempted to get the individual who desires a merger to even discuss the matter without devolving into him taking personal shots at some other editor on the Free Republic article. They include myself, User:Wakeforest, and User:Casito. A fourth, User:ObsidianOrder also stated his concurrence with keeping a separate article. As I noted to you previously on the discussion page of this article, there has been no deficit in the "general populace" on that discussion page and in fact the only impasse seems to be generated by user:Jonathan Christensern, who inappropriately started this whole VfD thing because he wasn't getting his way over on the article itself. The way I see it, this entire exercise is neither in compliance with wikipedia policy for merges (which entails placing a separate and distinct merge tag in the event that one is desired - not a VfD, which is ONLY for articles to be deleted) nor necessary given that the article itself has attracted a full and thorough field of participating editors, among whom only ONE exercises anything that could even reasonably be described as an impasse, and that only because at least four other people have opposed his decision to unilaterally merge the two articles without any discussion, which he still BTW refuses to participate in. Rangerdude 20:11, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, just as I am mine. I don't have much else to say so I'll just refer to my comments above. · Katefan0(scribble) 20:56, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * It's fine to have opinions, Katefan, but it doesn't justify a VfD request that's in violation of wikipedia procedures. If JC wants to make his proposed changes he needs to take them up on the talk page and, if necessary, put a merge tag on rather than VfD. IF upon following that process it is decided by consensus of the participants on the talk page that the two should be merged, it can then be done. If not, JC needs to respect the consensus to leave it as it is. That consensus was present on the talk page when he put up this VfD tag, with a solid majority there supporting the decision to make the articles separate. Not liking the outcome of an editing discussion is no basis to paste frivolous and improperly placed tags on an article. Rangerdude 22:08, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Factual accuracy
For anyone coming here from the factual accuracy tag, the "factual accuracy dispute," in case it is not entirely clear from the above bits and pieces taken out of the original discussion, centers around two points: Of course, those of us familiar with VfD (Rangerdude has never been on VfD before this dispute, at least not with this account) know that the second of these objections is completely unfounded--it is not uncommon for people, including the nominator, to change their votes. Further, as I have already addressed his first objection, there should be no problem. --Jonathan Christensen 07:20, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * User:Rangerdude claims it was inappropriate for me to start a VfD with a request to merge, and
 * User:Rangerdude claims that since I changed my vote to delete to appease his above claim, I should now have to restart the entire VfD process.
 * You are arguing a straw man, JC. Changing one's vote at midstream is not uncommon, but that was not my objection. My objection was to the fact that you changed the issue that we are voting on after it had been pointed out that your original topic violates wikipedia policy. Rangerdude 15:56, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * JC is right. It's not uncommon for people to change votes on VfD after seeing discussion etc., including the nominator.  It's not even that uncommon for someone to nominate a page for VfD and abstain from voting themselves until they have seen some discussion of the matter.  · Katefan0(scribble) 13:18, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Fine by me if they want to abstain from voting or change their vote. But JC did not do that - he changed the topic that we were voting on and his original topic was in clear violation of wikipedia's VfD policy. Rangerdude 15:56, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Nothing of the kind. The issue being voted on whenever something is brought to VfD is always the same. You can be forgiven for not knowing as much, since you aren't familiar with the process, but quoting from the top of WP:VFD: Votes for Deletion (VfD) is where Wikipedians decide what should be done with an article. Note that it does not say VfD is where Wikipedians decide whether they agree with the nominator on what should be done with an article or something similar. The matter being voted on is always the same, so it is impossible for me to have changed it. --Jonathan Christensen 16:06, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * You aren't in much of a position to lecture others about VfD policy, JC, given that you completely disregarded it WRT your two merges and initiating this entire VfD process. The fact that I have not participated in VfD's in the past in no way means that I have not read or observed them. In fact, you are misrepresenting the VfD process by neglecting its explicit injunctions against exactly what you are doing. WP:VD clearly states"Does the page really belong on VfD? Read the following two tables to find out what to do with a problem page." The table titled Problems that Don't Require Deletion clearly lists proposed merges there, and instead details an alternative procedure in which a "merge" tag is added, permitting the issue to be discussed on the discussion board and then decided per the conversations on that board. WP:GVFD similarly states "check the deletion policy to see what things are not reasons for deletion, consider whether you are actually wanting the article to be merged, expanded, or cleaned up rather than deleted, and use the appropriate mechanism instead of VFD" You did neither and you also resisted repeated requests to make your case on Talk:Jim Robinson, where the consensus was against your position. Rangerdude 17:53, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * First off, three people, one of them a sock puppet, against two is hardly a consensus (consensus, n. 1. An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole 2. General agreement or accord). I presume your fourth person is User:Casito, but to the best of my knowledge he never gave his opinion on whether it should be merged, so please stop including him in your count. --Jonathan Christensen 05:31, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I take no position on the fate of the Jim Robinson article. This debate, however, has been somewhat of a three ring circus. -Casito⇝Talk 20:10, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Look, Wikipedia policies aren't a suicide pact. You two were never going to agree, and a "consensus" of four people (one of which has been disputed as possibly being a sockpuppet for you and who, regardless, has never bothered to actually engage in the discussion here) is hardly definitive.  VfD is often used to decide disputes just like this one, including whether or not to merge two articles.  · Katefan0(scribble) 18:06, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia policies are not to be completely disregarded either, as JC has done. You are right that the two of us were never going to agree, but that stemmed from the fact that JC has insisted upon taking unilateral actions without giving due time for consideration and in spite of multiple outstanding requests that he discuss those actions first. People who refuse to even discuss the dispute are never going to agree on anything, and quite frankly I see absolutely no reason why the majority consensus should cater to a single trouble-maker who refuses to play by the rules. As to the "sockpuppet" charge, I assure you that whoever that other poster was, it was not me. And you can demand that some administrator or whatever it is check our IP addresses for all I care, because i'd never even encountered that poster or JC prior to JC's unilateral merge decision. In fact, that JC would first attempt to impugn me with an unsubstantiated link to whoever that other poster is (which he apparently did in his very first response to me, and which you now see fit to repeat) constitutes a personal attack of far greater magnitude than any criticism upon him in this dispute. If anything it's further proof that he simply cannot work with other people in building these articles and goes off throwing fits when he doesn't get his way...as in launching unilateral mergers and unilateral VfD requests despite a standing consensus on the discussion page against his position. Rangerdude 19:09, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I really did that, eh? Please show me where in my first respone to you I accused you of being Wakeforest's puppeteer. If (when) you can't, please shut up. Thanks. --Jonathan Christensen 05:31, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's policies were NOT completely disregarded, no matter how much verbiage you dump into this page. And I'd also like to point out that JC's VfD was hardly "unilateral," considering that I was the one who suggested it in the first place.  Also, JC, while I agree with you on almost all of the substance of this debate, it's not useful or very polite to say things like shut up.  · Katefan0(scribble) 11:55, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * You are right, of course, but after having Rangerdude accuse me of making false accusations and personal attacks when I didn't, accusing me of refusing the discuss the changes when it was infact I who first invited him to discuss them (see User Talk:Rangerdude), etc., I'm sick of his foolishness. My apologies. --Jonathan Christensen 16:18, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I understand -- he has at times not been very polite to you either, of course. · Katefan0(scribble) 16:26, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)


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Bourtzi Castle

The water castle of Bourtzi (Μπούρτζι, from Ottoman Turkish برج - burc meaning "tower"; formerly Καστέλι, Kasteli) is a Venetian castle located in the middle of the harbour of Nafplio.

Purpose & History
It was built by Antonio Gambello, an architect from Bergamo in 1471, although the construction was completed by the engineer Brancaleone.

This Fortress was constructed by the Venetians after the departure of Mahmut Pasha in 1473, and equipped with cannons. In 1502, the Venetians changed the fortifications on the southwest side into an independent rampart and erected an artificial mound of boulders to which they attached a chain. The chain was then connected to the city to prevent hostile ships from entering the harbour.

After the Treaty of Karlovic(1698), the Venetians erected a sturdy tower and bastions with cannons on the islet, thus creating the well-known fortress that dominates the entrance to the port of Nafplio today.

During the Greek revolution of 1821, the castle was captured by 200 armed soldiers. The castle was then used to bombard Nafplion and managed to thwart the resupply of the besieged Turks from an English ship.

In the following decade, during the Greek civil war (1823 – 1833), the Greek government was twice forced to take refuge in the castle, on May 25, 1824, and on July 2, 1827.

By order of the newly arrived King George I, the castle was disarmed in 1865 and became the residence of the city's executioner and the location of for executing prisoners via guillotine.

Finally, with the creation of the Greek National Tourism Organisation, the castle was restored in the 1930s,  and was transformed into one of the first tourist centers in Greece. The castle then housed a hotel with 12 rooms and a restaurant that was mentioned in contemporary international travel guides. It operated continuously from the 1930s until the Greek junta took power and closed the hotel and restaurant. Footage from its time as a hotel can be seen in the 1958 film The Man on the Train directed by Dinos Dimopoulos.

The castle has been since restored as a tourist attraction for the city of Nafplio.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Bourtzi Castle


text: User talk:164.58.172.181

title: User talk:164.58.172.181


text:
Roman Catholic Diocese of Arundel and Brighton

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Arundel and Brighton (Dioecesis Arundeliensis-Brichtelmestunensis) is a diocese in southern England covering the counties of Sussex and Surrey (excluding Spelthorne, which is part of the Diocese of Westminster). The diocese was erected on 28 May 1965 by Pope Paul VI, having previously been a part of the larger Diocese of Southwark, which was elevated to an archdiocese with a new ecclesiastical province on the same date.

Bishops
There have been five bishops of this diocese. The first was Bishop David Cashman, who was consecrated on 14 June 1965. He died in March 1971 and was succeeded by Bishop Michael George Bowen, who was translated in April 1977 to head the Archdiocese of Southwark. He was succeeded by then-Bishop Cormac Murphy-O'Connor who, in March 2000, became the 10th Archbishop of Westminster, and later, a Cardinal.

His successor, Bishop Kieran Conry, served from 2001 until his resignation in 2014. On Saturday, 21 March 2015, Pope Francis appointed Bishop Richard Moth, who had been serving as the Catholic Military Ordinary for Great Britain, to be the fifth Bishop of Arundel and Brighton. He was installed on Thursday, 28 May 2015, at Arundel Cathedral, the fiftieth anniversary of the diocese's creation.

 * David John Cashman (1965-1971)
 * Michael George Bowen (1971-1977), appointed Archbishop of Southwark
 * Cormac Murphy-O'Connor (1977-2000), appointed Archbishop of Westminster (Cardinal in 2001)
 * Kieran Thomas Conry (2001-2014)
 * Charles Phillip Richard Moth (2015- )

Coadjutor Bishop

 * Michael George Bowen (1970-1971)

Other priests of this diocese who became bishops

 * Maurice Noël Léon Couve de Murville, appointed Archbishop of Birmingham in 1982
 * Bernard Longley, appointed auxiliary bishop of Westminster in 2003

Metropolitan province
The diocese comprises part of the Metropolitan Province of Southwark, which is currently presided over by John Wilson, by virtue of his office of Archbishop of Southwark. The diocese itself covers the administrative counties of West and East Sussex, Surrey outside of the Greater London Boroughs, and the unitary authority of Brighton & Hove. It is one of 22 Roman Catholic dioceses in England and Wales.

Geographical area
Situated in the South East of England, the diocese encompasses many villages and smaller towns, as well as highly populated parts of Surrey, central Sussex and the coastal region running from Chichester to the Kent border.

Mass attendance
The diocese has a weekly Mass attendance of 43,377 persons, which would be approximately one quarter of the total Catholic population. There are 116 parishes with a number of other centres where Mass is celebrated regularly. In April 2005, the Diocese had 182 diocesan and 97 religious priests, as well as 16 permanent deacons. There are many religious institutes of both men and women, living and working in the diocese in a number of apostolates. The diocese has a total of 90 Catholic schools.

Local pilgrimage
The diocese also founded the annual Arundel and Brighton Pilgrimage. Though the pilgrimage is largely Roman Catholic, it is in fact ecumenical and there are several Anglican attendants. The first pilgrimage took place in 1975 around the diocese but has since gone on to include cross-country routes through England and Wales, with different themes and stops at various churches and cathedrals.

Anti-abuse policy
In the early 2000s, the sexual abuse scandal in Arundel and Brighton diocese hurt the public's trust in the work of local diocesan officials.


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Hostler

A hostler ( or ) or ostler was traditionally a groom or stableman who was employed in a stable to take care of horses, usually at an inn, in the era of transportation by horse or horse-drawn carriage. In the twentieth century the word came to be used in the railroad industry for a type of train driver in rail yards with switcher locomotives or a type of truck driver in similar work with terminal tractors.

Etymology
The word is spelled "hostler" in American English, but "ostler" in British English. It traces to c. 1386, meaning "one who tends to horses at an inn"—and also, occasionally, "innkeeper"—is derived from Anglo-French hostiler (modern French hostelier), itself from Medieval Latin hostilarius "the monk who entertains guests at a monastery", from hospitale "inn" (compare hospital, hospitaller, hospitality). A similar word, hostelero (innkeeper, the one that took care of a hostal), exists in Spanish.

Modern uses
According to the Dictionary of Occupational Titles, an ostler in motor transportation is a type of truck driver who directs trucks or tractors at vehicle parking or docking areas to move, position, or park trucks or trailers. In the United States railroad industry a hostler is a train driver, a type of railroad engineer who moves locomotives in and out of service facilities.

title: Hostler


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Talk:Impa (The Legend of Zelda)

Merging
It doesn't make sense to Merge. Impa's been in:

The Legend of Zelda (Plot) Zelda II: Adventure of Link (Plot) The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons

Plus, she's been merged into OoT characters, which makes no sense, since she's more than an OoT character.

 * I didn't put her in OOT chars did I? No, she's in the series chars page because she appears in so many. Any references on the OOT chars page that sound like duplicates were not put there by me. I'll have to check for dupes like that in future.

 * But if you feel she deserves her own page back, please revert this. Master Thief Garrett 21:57, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't feel she deserves her own page, and I'm putting her back in the series characters article. I favor Master Thief Garrett's move. The other characters in that article also appear in multiple games, and Impa is no more special than them. (well, some of them, but certainly not all) Deco 05:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * hm, hopefully this won't start one of those edit wars or anything nasty like that... hm... Master Thief Garrett 11:32, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * If our friend does think of reverting, I'd encourage him to first take a look at Category:Legend of Zelda characters and consider whether this article is on a par with the ones listed there. Deco 04:50, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

She has a purpose in The Legend of Zelda, Zelda II, Ocarina of Time, Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons. That's five games. Stop editing her page. --A Link to the Past 23:34, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * She had minor roles at best in almost all these games, although she's more important than many other minor characters. Unless you can really come up with two pages or more of text on her, I'm suggesting she remain where she is. I won't move it again if you do insist on reverting it though. Deco 23:43, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If that's what you want, then I'll put in as much information as I can about here. --A Link to the Past 23:47, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * I've got to admit, I didn't think she could justify her own article, but now she has not only a fair amount of text but a corresponding article on the Spanish Wikipedia. Deco 19:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Twinrova
Should Twinrova be added to the Zelda characters box at the bottom of the major character pages? Superneoking 19:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Impaz
Should Impaz be added here from Twilight Princess? H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 04:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably not - she's not actually Impa, and doesn't serve as the nursemaid (the two things linking all of these Impas together). You could put a note that there is a character that may be named after Impa, but that would probably be reverted as OR, since, hell, she could have been named after some Paz character we've yet to meet.KrytenKoro 04:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Impa in The Minish Cap
In the PAL version of the game, a masculin version of Impa appears

title: Talk:Impa (The Legend of Zelda)


text: User talk:217.206.228.16

title: User talk:217.206.228.16


text:
Talk:Marka, Oslo

Fair use rationale for Image:Oslo coat.png
Image:Oslo coat.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marka, Oslo


text:
Kieran Conry

Kieran Thomas Conry (born 1 February 1951) is a Roman Catholic bishop. He was the Bishop of Arundel and Brighton from 2001 until his resignation in 2014.

Early life and ordination
Conry was born in Coventry and educated at All Souls Roman Catholic Primary School, Coventry, and Cotton College (Junior Seminary) in North Staffordshire, before moving to the Venerable English College in Rome to study for the priesthood.

He attended the Pontifical Gregorian University, gaining the qualifications PhB and STB. He was ordained in 1975 at All Souls Church in Coventry by Archbishop George Patrick Dwyer of Birmingham.

In 1976, Conry returned to Cotton College to teach English literature and religious education. In 1980 he became the private secretary to the Apostolic Delegate (Pro-Nuncio from 1982), Archbishop Bruno Heim, and then his successor, Archbishop Luigi Barbarito. He was appointed a monsignor in 1984.

Pastoral ministry
In 1988, Conry returned to the Archdiocese of Birmingham as parish priest in Leek, Staffordshire. He was appointed Administrator of St Chad's Cathedral in 1990, just before its 150th anniversary the following year.

From 1988 to 1993, Conry was a member of the National Conference of Priests, and its Vice-Chairman from 1992 to 1993. He was also Chairman of the Birmingham City Centre Churches from 1992 to 1993. From 1993 to 2000, he was involved with training counsellors for Catholic Marriage Care.

From the beginning of 1994 to 2001, Conry was Director of the Catholic Media Office in London, the press office of the Bishop's Conference of England & Wales, and also editor of Briefing, the bishops' official journal. In January 2001, he returned to the Birmingham archdiocese as parish priest of St Austin's, Stafford.

Bishop
On 8 May 2001, Conry was appointed the fourth Bishop of Arundel and Brighton by Pope John Paul II. He received his episcopal consecration on the following 9 June from Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster (his predecessor in Arundel and Brighton), at Arundel Cathedral.

Resignation
On 27 September 2014, Conry announced his resignation as Bishop of Arundel and Brighton with immediate effect for having "been unfaithful to [his] promises as a Catholic priest" and bringing "shame" on the diocese and the Church. In his statement, he asked for prayer and forgiveness. He announced his resignation when it became apparent that the press was about to out the fact that he had been having an affair with an adult married woman. On 4 October 2014, Pope Francis accepted his resignation. He has not been laicized.

Views
Conry issued regular pastoral messages to his diocese.

Contemporary society
Conry has said that society has lost its sense of the transcendent and urged Christians to "proclaim the gospel into a void that needs to be filled if we are to find our way again; there is a space in all people that can only be filled by God".

Young people
In an interview with The Catholic Herald newspaper published in December 2008, he was reported to have said that it does not make much sense to talk about salvation to young people "unless you speak in their own language."

He has criticised society's "moral confusion": "we preach a liberal attitude to relationships and allow the media and commercial interests to prey on our young people, so that they are turned into little adults long before their time. Then we shake our heads in dismay and shame when we learn that we have the highest teenage pregnancy in the EU, six times higher than Holland."

Confession
Conry has been critical of going to confession regularly, saying that, in his experience, people would always come back saying the same things week after week, suggesting that no interior conversion or repentance was actually taking place.

In a May 2009 pastoral letter, he urged a more adult approach to the sacrament of reconciliation: "Go to the priest and talk about these things, the way in which your relationship with God might have grown stale. Because sin is ultimately something that damages our relationship with God. It is not just breaking the rules."

In November 2009, he clarified statements in his May pastoral letter, following a complaint to the Holy See. He stated that, by suggesting Catholics speak to their priests about "the biggest obstacle" in their relationship with God, he was not suggesting an alternative to the traditional practice of confessing sins.

Tridentine Mass
He is reported to have stated that Summorum Pontificum does not suggest significant change because the Tridentine Mass caters for a small group of people. He added that he had never refused permission when a group of people asked if they could celebrate it in his diocese.

Date of Easter
Conry has argued against changing the date of Easter in a sense that would separate it from its Jewish roots of Passover, adding that it would be difficult to have all the different ecclesial communities to agree on a same date.

Civil partnerships
Conry has stated that the Catholic Church supports civil partnerships, because they can confer to couples, including homosexual couples, legal protection in matters such as inheritance. However, he has questioned the need to apply the term "marriage" to homosexual partnerships, saying that marriage as "the permanent union of a man and a woman" should be protected.

title: Kieran Conry


text:
Semantics encoding

A semantics encoding is a translation between formal languages. For programmers, the most familiar form of encoding is the compilation of a programming language into machine code or byte-code. Conversion between document formats are also forms of encoding. Compilation of TeX or LaTeX documents to PostScript are also commonly encountered encoding processes. Some high-level preprocessors, such as OCaml's Camlp4, also involve encoding of a programming language into another.

Formally, an encoding of a language A into language B is a mapping of all terms of A into B. If there is a satisfactory encoding of A into B, B is considered at least as powerful (or at least as expressive) as A.

Properties
An informal notion of translation is not sufficient to help determine expressivity of languages, as it permits trivial encodings such as mapping all elements of A to the same element of B. Therefore, it is necessary to determine the definition of a "good enough" encoding. This notion varies with the application.

Commonly, an encoding $$[\cdot]: A \longrightarrow B$$ is expected to preserve a number of properties.

Preservation of compositions

 * soundness : For every n-ary operator $$op_A$$ of A, there exists an n-ary operator $$op_B$$ of B such that
 * $$\forall T_A^1,T_A^2,\dots,T_A^n, [op_A(T_A^1,T_A^2,\cdots,T_A^n)] = op_B([T_A^1],[T_A^2],\cdots,[T_A^n])$$

 * completeness : For every n-ary operator $$op_A$$ of A, there exists an n-ary operator $$op_B$$ of B such that
 * $$\forall T_B^1,T_B^2,\dots,T_B^n, \exists T_A^1,\dots,T_A^n, op_B(T_B^1,\cdots,T_B^N) = [op_A(T_A^1,T_A^2,\cdots,T_A^n)]$$

(Note: as far as the author is aware of, this criterion of completeness is never used.)

Preservation of compositions is useful insofar as it guarantees that components can be examined either separately or together without "breaking" any interesting property. In particular, in the case of compilations, this soundness guarantees the possibility of proceeding with separate compilation of components, while completeness guarantees the possibility of de-compilation.

Preservation of reductions
This assumes the existence of a notion of reduction on both language A and language B. Typically, in the case of a programming language, reduction is the relation which models the execution of a program.

We write $$\longrightarrow$$ for one step of reduction and $$\longrightarrow^*$$ for any number of steps of reduction.

 * soundness : For every terms $$T_A^1, T_A^2$$ of language A, if $$T_A^1 \longrightarrow^* T_A^2$$ then $$[T_A^1] \longrightarrow^* [T_A^2]$$.
 * completeness : For every term $$T_A^1$$ of language A and every terms $$T_B^2$$ of language B, if $$[T_A^1] \longrightarrow^* T_B^2$$ then there exists some $$T_A^2$$ such that $$T_B^2 = [T_A^2]$$.

This preservation guarantees that both languages behave the same way. Soundness guarantees that all possible behaviours are preserved while completeness guarantees that no behaviour is added by the encoding. In particular, in the case of compilation of a programming language, soundness and completeness together mean that the compiled program behaves accordingly to the high-level semantics of the programming language.

Preservation of termination
This also assumes the existence of a notion of reduction on both language A and language B.

 * soundness : for any term $$T_A$$, if all reductions of $$T_A$$ converge, then all reductions of $$[T_A]$$ converge.
 * completeness : for any term $$[T_A]$$, if all reductions of $$[T_A]$$ converge, then all reductions of $$T_A$$ converge.

In the case of compilation of a programming language, soundness guarantees that the compilation does not introduce non-termination such as endless loops or endless recursions. The completeness property is useful when language B is used to study or test a program written in language A, possibly by extracting key parts of the code: if this study or test proves that the program terminates in B, then it also terminates in A.

Preservation of observations
This assumes the existence of a notion of observation on both language A and language B. In programming languages, typical observables are results of inputs and outputs, by opposition to pure computation. In a description language such as HTML, a typical observable is the result of page rendering.

 * soundness : for every observable $$obs_A$$ on terms of A, there exists an observable $$obs_B$$ of terms of B such that for any term $$T_A$$ with observable $$obs_A$$, $$[T_A]$$ has observable $$obs_B$$.
 * completeness : for every observable $$obs_A$$ on terms of A, there exists an observable $$obs_B$$ on terms of B such that for any term $$[T_A]$$ with observable $$obs_B$$, $$T_A$$ has observable $$obs_A$$.

Preservation of simulations
This assumes the existence of notion of simulation on both language A and language B. In a programming languages, a program simulates another if it can perform all the same (observable) tasks and possibly some others. Simulations are used typically to describe compile-time optimizations.

 * soundness : for every terms $$T_A^1, T_A^2$$, if $$T_A^2$$ simulates $$T_A^1$$ then $$[T_A^2]$$ simulates $$[T_A^1]$$.
 * completeness : for every terms $$T_A^1, T_A^2$$, if $$[T_A^2]$$ simulates $$[T_A^1]$$ then $$T_A^2$$ simulates $$T_A^1$$.

Preservation of simulations is a much stronger property than preservation of observations, which it entails. In turn, it is weaker than a property of preservation of bisimulations. As in previous cases, soundness is important for compilation, while completeness is useful for testing or proving properties.

Preservation of equivalences
This assumes the existence of a notion of equivalence on both language A and language B. Typically, this can be a notion of equality of structured data or a notion of syntactically different yet semantically identical programs, such as structural congruence or structural equivalence.

 * soundness : if two terms $$T_A^1$$ and $$T_A^2$$ are equivalent in A, then $$[T_A^1]$$ and $$[T_A^2]$$ are equivalent in B.
 * completeness : if two terms $$[T_A^1]$$ and $$[T_A^2]$$ are equivalent in B, then $$T_A^1$$ and $$T_A^2$$ are equivalent in A.

Preservation of distribution
This assumes the existence of a notion of distribution on both language A and language B. Typically, for compilation of distributed programs written in Acute, JoCaml or E, this means distribution of processes and data among several computers or CPUs.

 * soundness : if a term $$T_A$$ is the composition of two agents $$T_A^1~|~T_A^2$$ then $$[T_A]$$ must be the composition of two agents $$[T_A^1]~|~[T_A^2]$$.
 * completeness : if a term $$[T_A]$$ is the composition of two agents $$T_B^1~|~T_B^2$$ then $$T_B$$ must be the composition of two agents $$T_A^1~|~T_A^2$$ such that $$[T_A^1]=T_B^1$$ and $$[T_A^2]=T_B^2$$.

title: Semantics encoding


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Talk:Alexei Kasatonov

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Tooting Bec

Tooting Bec is in the London Borough of Wandsworth, south London, England.

History
Tooting Bec appears in Domesday Book of 1086 as "Totinges". It was held partly by St Mary de Bec-Hellouin Abbey and partly by Westminster Abbey. Its domesday assets were: 5 hides. It had 5½ ploughs, 13 acre. It rendered £7.

The suffix ‘Bec’, (beck, meaning 'stream', in English), was added after Bec Abbey in Normandy, ('Bec' being the name of the river there). They were given land in the area by the Normans. Saint Anselm, the second Abbot of Bec, is reputed to have been a visitor to Tooting Bec before he succeeded Lanfranc as Archbishop of Canterbury. Saint Anselm also gives his name to the Roman Catholic church at the corner of Balham High Road and Tooting Bec Road. A relief sculpture of Saint Anselm visiting the Totinges tribe (from which Tooting gets its name) is on the exterior of Wandsworth Town Hall.

Tooting Bec is on Stane Street, a Roman Road which linked London with Chichester to the southwest.

The area includes Tooting Commons, and Tooting Bec Lido, one of the oldest open-air fresh water swimming pools in Britain, first opened to the public in 1906, and also the largest freshwater swimming pool by surface area in the United Kingdom, being 100 yards (91.44 m) long and 33 yards (30.18 m) wide.

Tooting Bec Golf Club was founded in 1888. The club disappeared in the late 1920s.

The Finnish band Hanoi Rocks wrote the song "Tooting Bec Wreck" about their experiences living there in the early 1980s.

Nearest places

 * Tooting
 * Balham
 * Streatham
 * Wimbledon
 * Earlsfield
 * Mitcham
 * Colliers Wood
 * Furzedown

Nearest tube station

 * Tooting Bec tube station

Football Club

 * Tooting Bec F.C.

title: Tooting Bec


text:
The Scientist (magazine)

The Scientist is a professional magazine intended for life scientists. The Scientist covers recently published research papers, current research, techniques, and other columns and reports of interest to its readers. The magazine is published monthly and is available in print and digital formats.

Overview
The main purpose of the magazine is to provide print and online coverage of the latest developments in life sciences research, technology, careers, and business. Subject matters covered by the magazine include groundbreaking research, industry innovations, careers, financial topics, the economics of science, scientific ethics, profiles of scientists, lab tools, scientific publishing, techniques, product spotlight, and guides.

History
The Scientist was founded in 1986 by American businessman Eugene Garfield as part of his academic publishing service Institute for Scientific Information. The publishing house was sold two years later to JPT Publishing, but Eugene Garfield eventually bought back The Scientist a few month later.

In 2009, the magazine had a round of layoffs, and its owner, the London-based Science Navigation Group, merged The Scientist with the website Faculty of 1000 for peer review and evaluation of articles in biology and medical journals. The Scientist moved from Philadelphia to New York in 2010.

In October 2011, the Science Navigation Group announced it was closing the magazine, but the LabX Media Group subsequently announced it would purchase and continue publishing it. The Group officially acquired the magazine at the end of October 2011.

Top 10 Innovations Survey
Since 2008, The Scientist has conferred awards for the top innovations in science and technology: Nominations are submitted; entries are reviewed by a panel of judges; and the winners are announced annually in the December edition of the magazine.

Website
The Scientist offers a website that complements the print version by offering live science news and multimedia features, attracting roughly 1.2 million unique page views each month, according to Google Analytics.

Social media
In 2011, The Scientist launched a Facebook page, to deliver its content in the social media realm. The page now has more than 2 million page likes.

Since then, The Scientist has launched special interest Facebook pages to share the latest research developments in different life science topics. In December 2018, it was announced that some pages would be renamed and refocused for a more cohesive community.

Awards
The Scientist has won many awards, including:

 * 2018 ASBPE Awards of Excellence, Top Ten Award, Magazine of the Year
 * 2016 ASBPE Awards of Excellence, Bronze - Web News Section & another in Infographics
 * 2011 Gold and Silver 'Eddie' Award for Best Business-to-Business Science Magazine, Full Issue
 * 2011 Bronze 'Eddie' Award for Best Business-to-Business Single Science Article
 * 2011 Silver 'Eddie' Award for Best Business-to-Business News Coverage
 * 2011 ASBPE Awards of Excellence, Magazine of the Year
 * Gold 'Eddie' Award for Best Business-to-Business Science Website in the years 2009, 2010
 * ASBPE Awards of Excellence Magazine of the year, circulation of less than 80,000 in the years 2008, and 2009
 * Gold 'Eddie' Award for Best Business-to-Business Single Science Article in the years 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
 * 2007 Nomination as one of the Top 10 Business-to-Business Magazines
 * 2007 Gold for Best Publication Redesign
 * 2007 Silver for Best Individual/Company Profile for Ishani Ganguli's "A Complementary Pathway"
 * Gold 'Eddie' Award for Best Business-to-Business Science Magazine in the years 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010

title: The Scientist (magazine)


text:
User talk:Xh~enwiki

account blocked indefinitely for spamming. dab (ᛏ) 12:46, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
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title: User talk:Xh~enwiki


text:
Wikipedia:Wikifun/Round 8/Answers/Question 9

1859

I hope I'm not cheating. I found this on the Simple English wikipedia.

It isn't off limits right? I figured Simple English is still English - fiveless 13:54, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * That's where I got my answer from too, so it's not cheating. Good job! Eugene van der Pijll 21:37, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

1853


text:
Talk:Hudud

This article seems to contradict practice
I wish I had reference but I remember articles on some murder trials in Saudi Arabia (I think) where the family of the murder victim decided the punishement, or even if there was to be a punishment.

There was even some speculation that if an orphan was murdered there would be no punishment, because there'd be no family to decide punishment.

I've read similar articles about Yemen were murder disputes are sometimes solved with money.

And this also explains why honor killings aren't punished, because the family that would decide punishment IS the agent of murder in those cases.

Clearly the article is wrong. Murder is treated as a civil offense against a family where that family decides the punishment, not as a high crime at all.

Theft, on the other hand is treated as a high crime as all of those pictures of amputated hands attest to.

Is there anyone working on this article who actually knows what's going on?

 * This article is somewhat inaccurate in its description of hadd punishments - standard murder isn't something for which there is a hadd (prescribed) punishment, but rather a tazir (discretionary) one. I will update this article soon and expand it. Squigglypuff

 * Hi, I have corrected this page, although somebody undid my corrections almost immediately. I have made them again. Commenter here is right - murder is not a hadd offense, it is conceived as a private dispute between murderer and victim's heirs. It's not ta'zir, however, as ta'zir is punishment at the discretion of the judge. The heirs have the discretion in the case of murder. They are entitled to compensation, and can also demand retaliation (i.e. execution) if they want (see qisas). However, it's not necessarily the case that if there are no heirs there is no punishment - in such circumstances the sovereign would take over the role of the heirs (and thus be entitled to the blood-money as well as to execute the murderer). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.122.253.229 (talk) 11:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

To the best of my knowledge (which is limited), this article is accurrate. Just because a so-called "Islamic" country (Saudi Arabia, which nearly all Muslims hate) whips someone for having a strand of hair hanging out of their Hijab, that doesn't mean that Shari'a Law teaches this. Armyrifle 01:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

This article appears to concentrate on the application of a branch of sharia law in Sudan, and should so state, either in the Title, or in the Introduction. It would be far more meaningful if it dealt with hudud as applied in the countries with the highest Muslim population -Indonesia, Pakistan (though this country appears to have its own article), India, Bangladesh, etc. 67.170.238.175 (talk) 03:50, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm
Would it be fair to say that these are functionally equivalent to felonies? DS 13:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Not exactly. It's funny because it includes murder, a felony under American (and most) legal systems, and then it includes adultery, which isn't a crime under most western legal systems.  So, maybe it means felony and they have very different standards.  I did see it described as "crimes agaisnt God".  That these are the crimes that God abhors the most according to Islam and seen in that light it might be a felony but I think it would be misleading to put that because it will give people the notion of felony as they are stated under western law. gren 14:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
I am adding the NPOV template because I feel that as long as this article is predominantly editted by me it cannot be neutral. Therefore when this article grows in size and has more editors then it can be removed hopefully. gren 14:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Addition
I have added a line or two at the top that might provide some context. I am not too well-educated in Islamic jurispudence, but I think if we start nudging it along in those directions, others will add things that will complete the picture. —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 23:02, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Anon's addition
A while I ago I removed a long addition to the article by an anon; it was incorrectly formatted, contained a lot of (admittedly mostly minor) grammatical and spelling errors, had no Wiki-links, and was couched in PoV language. Instead of discussing it, the anon. launched a series of personal attacks on me, and refused to enter into any sort of adult discussion. Nevertheless, it seems a pity to let the poor manners of one person to prevent the addition of possibly useful information, so here's the section, copy-edited, wikified, and NPoVed (as far as I'm able to judge). My main worry now is that it overbalances the article, so that its addition would create a PoV. Any comments?

 * ==Adultery==

 * The hudud punishment for adultery – stoning to death – is often regarded with horror by non-Muslims and some Muslims alike. Muslim apologists point to the Bible, and especially to Torah, which prescribe the same basic punishment for adultery; Islam however, the proponents of this law argue, is more just in this respect than Christianity or Judaism, because it demands the observation of the act of adultery by four (male) witnesses. Because this is almost never likely to be practically possible, it is argued that death by stoning is in practice never likely to be prescribed.

 * Aside from the moral aspect, and the question of why a god would prescribe a punishment so brutal for any crime, there is an interesting issue of whether this punishment is rightfully incorporated into Islam. The Qur'an stipulates one hundred lashes for the act of zina (in Arabic "zina" refers to both fornication and adultery). It was in the reign of Umar, a caliph after Muhammad's death, that stoning for adultery was introduced.

 * The reason given by Umar was that there had existed a verse in the Qur'an that prescribed death by stoning. Before the compilation of the Qur'an in one body under Uthman, another caliph, individual verses were written on parchments, cow hides, and the like. Umar asserted that this verse, which abrogated the existing Quranic verse, had been eaten by a goat.  The verse was not recalled by anyone else at the time; scholars remain sceptical about its existence, and it has over time come to be known as the "Verse of Stoning".

 * Despite these questionable issues surrounding this hudud law, stoning to death for adultery has become embedded in Sharia law. The reasons given by contemporary Islamic scholars for continuing with stoning despite the Quran's prescription of one hundred lashes for adultery is that, since "zina" in Arabic can refer to both fornication and adultery, the Quran is in this respect referring to fornication. Consequently fornication is punishable under hudud law by one hundred lashes, whereas stoning to death remains the punishment for adultery.

The anon added (unwikified and unformatted, of course) an item to the references, implying that this is where the material comes from: The Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam, Gibb, Royal Dutch Press.

Can anyone verify the material, and does nayone have any thoughts about placing it in the article? --Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 09:57, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Comments. I see no reason for is often regarded with horror by non-Muslims and some Muslims alike -- it will be regarded how it is and that seems unnecessary and unsourceable.  I am sure that many do re-act that way but I don't think it should be stated.  stoning to death for adultery has become embedded in Sharia law is very dubious because there are differen instantiations of sharia and while some (such as Sudan I believe) may believe that saying that it is embedded in sharia is making a claim that all Muslims believe that (sharia being God's law and Muslims following that).  There has been notable opposition to this from Tariq Ramadan and this is way too overspimplistic for such a complex issue.  We would need to break that down into a more "who believes what" section.  Other than that I can't really comment since I don't know... but, of course for something this controversial (and I would say damning of whatever forms of Islam support it) must be well cited and be sure not to overgeneralize.  I am sure people who don't support stoning don't want to be portrayed as if they do. gren グレン 12:43, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

The "lost verse on stoning" is of more importance than merely the actual stoning of adulterers, brutal as that might be. The issue is whether or not the Shariah is actually founded on the Qur'an. If the Shari'ah disobeys the Qur'an, in any matter, its entire intellectual basis is at risk. To my eye Islam has yet to face up to this problem. The whole matter is exceedingly delicate and needs to be handled with great care 64.85.224.52 06:09, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Re. the comment immediately above: the large part of the Shariah is not founded directly on the Qur'an. This is a common misconception among western observers of Islam, but no Muslim scholar would hold this (there is a small, minority school of thought that holds that the shariah *should* be based only on the Qur'an, but they would admit that in fact it isn't and never has been). The Qur'an is only one of four sources. The other three are the Hadith/Sunna (reports on the sayings and actions of the Prophet), ijma' (consensus, usually understood to mean consensus of the Muslim jurists), and qiyas (analogy from a situation covered by a text). There is a preference to base a ruling on a textual source before resort to ijma' or qiyas, but in this respect Hadith carries equal weight to the Qur'an. The Hadith could fairly be seen as the most important source of Islamic law, since a far greater number of textually-based rulings and principles are based on Hadith than are based on the Qur'an. This is not surprising, since just one authoritative collection of hadith (and there are several) runs to 10 or more volumes, as opposed to about 400 pages for the Qur'an (and by no means all of the Qur'an consists of legal rulings - the great part consists of exhortations to submit to God, relation of stories of the Biblical prophets, running debates with Christian and Jewish theology etc.) So, whether or not stoning appears in the Qur'an is irrelevant - its place in Shariah law is based on a hadith. The same issue came up in journalistic comment on the Danish cartoon business - many commentators pointed out that the Qur'an does not forbid representing the Prophet. Again, this is irrelevant, as the prohibition on representing prophets is based on hadith, not the Qur'an. In terms of Islamic legal theory, this does not in any way detract from its authority.

With respect to the idea of a "lost verse" - I have never heard of this, and the idea of a lost verse would not be an acceptable source of Islamic law. Jurists must use the accepted version of the Qur'an. In any case, there is no need for a "lost verse," since the stoning ruling is based on hadith.

Stoning is well-established in the Hadith and all 4 major Muslim sects agree on this. The previous claim was that only suspicious Hadith supported stoning — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.184.27.46 (talk) 00:40, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Bad Link
Edited out *The penal law of Islam: Basic principle which seems to be broken

Lies and Distortion by Media about Hudood Ordinance
Hi all, i'd like to bring everyone's attention to this article: http://jsmawais.googlepages.com/Lies.htm To see if they could add portions to this Hudud article based on it. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.127.146.89 (talk) 00:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Sorry. Has to a WP:Reliable Source to get in wikipedia. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:36, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Unnecessary duplication
There was almost word-for-word duplication of a section of 'Adultery' in 'The explanations given for the severity of punishments'. Replaced this with a link to the previous section. -- Ghostreveries 16:08, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The changes I made that were just removed were not "removal of good material," they were removal of wrong material. Murder is not a hadd offense in Islamic law, it is not seen as a "claim of God," but rather as a private issue between the murderer and the victim's heirs. There is not a hadd penalty for murder - the heirs can demand execution of the murderer, as retaliation (see qisas), or they can choose not to. Also, blasphemy, while commonly held to require the death penalty (not by stoning though), is not a hadd offense. There are only five hadd offenses: drinking alcohol, theft, highway robbery, illegal sexual intercourse, false accusation of illegal sexual intercourse. If you go to any manual of Islamic law and look at the chapter on hadd (the kitab al-hudud), you will these five offenses only. If you cannot read Arabic there is one manual, the Hedaya by Marghinani, that is translated into English.

Explanations for punishments
I intend to re-write this section or at least make a major revision. It seems most of these "explanations" are from either apologists or non-muslims whose views, understandably, are not favored by the large majority of the Muslim community. If we were to provide true information of a Religion, it can only be sought and explained best by its scholars. However for the benefit of those who want information on how "western" scholars think about this particular topic, a separate heading could be made??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hamdhanborgi (talk • contribs) 03:14, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Adultery
I've edited this page to reflect some of the disagreement among Muslim scholars in regards to stoning for adultery. This issue is not nearly as clear-cut as this article states it to be. Legitimate, orthodox scholars are split. Hadith to support stoning as a punishment adultery are known to be weak, and there is a Hadith (not sure of the citation) where Caliph Umar thought that stoning for adulterers was in the Qur'an and he was looking for the verse. Clearly, if the Prophet Muhammad (sallahu `alayhi wa salaam - I had to type this, as I am a Muslim) had said in legitimate Hadith that adulterers are to be stoned, Umar would not have had to look for the Qur'an verse to prove his thinking. He would've used the statement of the Prophet.

Unfortunately, I've only been able to reference an unorthodox scholar's fatwa. This scholar is, I believe, a Qur'an-alone Muslim. However, as I've said, there are plenty of orthodox and legitimate scholars who argue with the Qur'an and with Hadith to prove their point that stoning for adultery is a bid`ah, or a forbidden innovation as such an action was not practiced by the Prophet nor commanded by Allah. A statement by Hanbal to say that "all scholars agree that stoning is the prescribed punishment" does nothing to support that claim. It's his opinion, and it is inaccurate as many scholars who follow a madhab or who are Salafi, both at Hanbal's time and now, have argued that stoning is not the prescribed punishment for adultery.

So, in the interest of truthfulness, I ask for others to expand on the various opinions regarding the actual prescribed punishment for adultery, and I ask for others to make a section in this article dedicated to these differences in opinion. As it stands now, it seems someone who believes stoning IS the prescribed punishment is trying to force his/her views as the only view, when this is not true in the least bit. SOW93 (talk) 20:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

What is Hudud?
Crimes? or Punishments?

Googling around all the definitions I came across say punishments ... although they don't make a big deal about distinguishing. As a consequence I have done some rewriting. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Hdood, simply means limits or boundaries in Arabic, and is a definition that predates Islam. LebaneseBebe (talk) 07:34, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Religious primary and other tags need to be explained
I see secondary WP:RS with quotes from primary texts as suggested under WP:PSTS. So what is the problem? I welcome an explanation of "religious primary" and other tags on this talk page, so that we can improve the article together. RLoutfy (talk) 00:05, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The Qur'an and Hadith sections are interpreting primary sources, I think (if I'm not mistaken) that it's who added it, I'm pinging him to justify. As for the other  tag is because many claims are left uncited, or poorly cited, or their citations aren't specified enough. (e.g. Citation X, pp.1-68, highly unspecific) --CounterTime (talk) 20:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * By the way, why did you move those cites? --CounterTime (talk) 20:44, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Hudud. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081128185746/http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/041.mmt.html to http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/041.mmt.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 04:51, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Hdood literal meaning
I included in the intro the literal definition of hadood. It is not an “Islamic” term, since Islam is not a language. It is an Arabic word that predates Islam, later adopted by Islamic scholars and lawmakers. The translation of the word should not be distorted, it is still currently being used to imply the words “borders” and “limitations”. LebaneseBebe (talk) 07:36, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * As per the cited sources, this is an article about the Islamic legal term, not about the Arabic word in general. WP:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. The common, literal sense of the word was already given in the parentheses. The other changes were also not an improvement. I don't know what the source you cited says, exactly, as you haven't given a page number (see WP:CITEHOW), but why would we use this source at all? It's not clear that it's even reliable, and at best it's a weak tertiary source which is WP:UNDUE next to the standard academic references cited here. There's no need to qualify religious notions as "alleged" when it's clear that it's what's being discussed. As for the alternative transliteration, this is not the place to cite all the conceivable romanizations; the goal here is to help a casual reader by confirming that another prominent transliteration they may have come across refers to the same notion. "Hdood" is a colloquial pronunciation that only Arabic speakers would tend to use, and they aren't the intended audience of this gloss. Eperoton (talk) 03:13, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That particular source is definitely completely unreliable. See archive 162 of WP:RSN where a decision was made to remove all references to any book from that series on sight. That source is a mirror of Wikipedia, copied by a computer program that copies in a completely indiscriminate fashion and which cannot vouch for the accuracy of what it copies. James500 (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Lack of diverse sources
I find it odd that that Wikipedia has never come across this https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=37 This page explains the actual meaning of "cutting off ones hands" within context, backed up with the Arabic language. Wikipedia needs to understand that the hadith is not a primary source of information and that sectism and their schools of thought are also not part of Islam.

The reference to Islam is the Quran, not other peoples word of mouth. The fact is, there cannot be so many different interpriations of the same words, someone has to be wrong. Those who are wrong firstly, are those who use hadiths.
 * This source does not meet WP standards for reliability. Eperoton (talk) 00:43, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid this is completely wrong. You've cited a website created by an amateur, which advertises his book which he self-published on CreateSpace. This is in no way a reliable source. Of course the author is entitled to interpret the Koran and hadith any way he likes, but his opinion does not reflect Islamic law. These verses are interpreted by all Muslim jurists as referring to the amputation of the hand. This is the case even though many Muslim jurists were keen to avoid amputation wherever possible. They did this by defining the offense of theft (sariqa) very narrowly, and devising another offense, usurpation (ghasb), which could be prosecuted instead. They did not deny the meaning of the verse, which is clear - the Arabic term used is qata'a which specifically means cutting off or severing. There are different words for cut in the sense of gash or mark.
 * You are also wrong about the importance of hadith. Those who assert that only the Koran is a legitimate source of law are a tiny, insignificant minority in Islamic history. Muslim jurists treat the hadith and Koran as equally valid sources of law. The fact that an individual hadith may be incorrect doesn't make any difference to this. Muslim jurists were fully aware that individual hadiths may be inaccurate or even false, and they developed a complex science for distinguishing authentic from inauthentic hadiths. If they decided that a particular hadith was authentic, then they treated it as a source of law. In fact, jurists relied on hadith more than the Koran, since the latter is a fairly short text (500 pages or so) and doesn't cover many subjects. The hadith are far more substantial (just one of the canonical collections, the Sahih al-Bukhari, is around 9 volumes in modern editions), and comprehensive.
 * Using "diverse sources" does not mean citing blogs or self-published books that have not been subject to peer review or any editorial process. Islamic law is an intellectual discipline with a highly complex theory and method, it is different from the beliefs of individual Muslims who have not trained as jurists. As an analogy, there are millions of American and British people - the so-called "freemen on the land" - who think that according to Magna Carta they are only bound by statutes if they consent to it. This is completely false - Magna Carta doesn't say this and has never been interpreted as saying this in English or American law, and the fact that many Brits and Americans who aren't lawyers interpret it this way is irrelevant.

Why is theft getting hand cut off instead for prison sentence.
But why does it like this? Because of the law, If you steal something in terrorist area. Otherwise, your hand gets chopped off - Samiwikia

Correction of description of highway robbery
I corrected the description of highway robbery. The hadd offense of highway robbery is usually called qat' al-tariq or sometimes hiraba. Sa'i al-fasad fi l-'ard is a different concept that is not a hadd offense. It is a broad concept that can encompass many forms of habitual criminality and gives wide discretion to the ruler to punish it as he sees fit. This is very different from a hadd offense, which has a fixed punishment (BTW Sa'i al-fasad is the name of the act, mufsid al-fasad refers to the person whod does this). On the punishment for this offense, I clarified that crucifixion is not the method of execution. In Islamic law, the punishment of crucifixion is to publicly display the convicted person's body on a cross after he has been executed.

title: Talk:Hudud


text:
Barming railway station

Barming railway station is located in Tonbridge and Malling Borough, west of Maidstone in Kent, England, and approximately 1 mile from Barming and Maidstone Hospital. It is 37 mi down the line from London Victoria. The station and all trains serving it are operated by Southeastern.

History
Barming station opened on 1 June 1874 as part of the London, Chatham and Dover Railway's Maidstone Line from Swanley Junction to Maidstone. The goods yard had two sidings, one of which served a goods shed. Freight facilities were withdrawn on 5 December 1960. The signal box closed on 24 April 1982.

The platforms are of 6-car length only, despite the majority of services throughout the day being formed of 8 cars. The original station building remains on the down (Country-bound) platform 2, with a substantial wooden shelter on the up (London-bound) platform. The ticket office is staffed for limited hours during the morning peak period on Mondays to Fridays; at other times a [TVM] 'ticket vending machine', also located on the down platform, suffices. A passenger information screen is located on the down platform 2 and provides information relating to train running times for both platforms. The station entrances/exits are on the down Platform 2. There is no level access to Platform 1.

The concrete footbridge which spanned the tracks at the western end of the station, linking the platforms, was life-expired and demolished in early 2013. It was an example of the standard pre-fabricated design built at the Southern Railway's concrete factory at Exmouth Junction, east of Exeter. The replacement footbridge to the standard Network Rail design is at the extreme eastern end of the station.

Facilities
The Station has a ticket office, which since lockdown, is no longer in use. It is locked and the station is unstaffed.

The station has a chargeable car park with 80 spaces at its entrance which is operated by Saba Parking. There is also a small 16 capacity cycle rack at the station entrance.

The station has step-free access available to the Ashford bound platform although the London bound platform is only reachable by the use of steps.

Services
All services at Barming are operated by Southeastern using and  EMUs.

The typical off-peak service in trains per hour is:

 * 1 tph to London Victoria
 * 1 tph to Ashford International

During the peak hours, the station is served by an additional hourly service between London Victoria and Ashford International, increasing the service to 2 tph in each direction.

title: Barming railway station


text:
User talk:Zulu Massacre

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles will be reverted quickly. Please see the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. Sjakkalle 13:58, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Zulu Massacre


text: File:Tonibraxton hitthefreeway.jpg

title: File:Tonibraxton hitthefreeway.jpg


text:
HMS Bee

Three vessels and two shore establishments of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Bee, after the insect, the bee. A third ship was ordered but never completed:

Ships

 * HMS Bee was a 79-foot schooner rigged vessel of 30$1⁄2$ tonnes displacement, stationed at the Royal Navy's Penetanguishene Naval Establishment serving on the Upper Great Lakes from 1817 to 1831. A replica of her was launched in 1984 at the reconstructed naval dockyard and now resides at the "Discovery Harbour" provincial historic site along with the 175-ton topsail schooner HMS Tecumseth in Penetanguishene, Ontario.
 * HMS Bee (1842) was a paddle vessel, built of wood and launched in 1842 as a tender to the Royal Academy, Portsmouth. She had additional screw propulsion fitted in 1844, making her the second screw vessel in the Royal Navy. (The first screw vessel in navy service was HMS Dwarf (1843). ) Bee was broken up in 1874.
 * HMS Bee (1915) was an Insect-class gunboat launched in 1915 and sold in 1939.
 * HMS Bee was to have been a Dragonfly-class river gunboat. She was ordered in 1939, but cancelled in 1940.

Shore establishments

 * HMS Bee was a Coastal Forces work up base at Weymouth in commission between 1942 and 1943.
 * HMS Bee was a Coastal Forces work up base at Holyhead, taking over from the previous base in 1943 and being paid off in 1945.

title: HMS Bee


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Islamist

In order to remain listed at Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: 14:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is:, 29 July 2024 (UTC).

 * (Islamist | talk | contributions)

Statement of the dispute
Islamist has been inserting a pro-Arab POV in pages that are NPOV, and this user has also committed personal attacks against specific or a group of users.

Description
Islamist has only been on Wikipedia for a few days, but his activities are causing problems in pages that deal with Islam. The page that I am hvaing most trouble with him on is the Gallery of national flags (Talk). He always insists of adding the Palestine flag into the Gallery without a clear consensus from the other editors. And when we removed the flag, he always remove it back in with comments that we shoukd (stop denying reality). Also, his user page list people that he considers displaying "hostility, made biased edits and have reverted edits in an abusive way." He list people that usually reverted his edits (sometimes deemed as vandalism). This, to me, considers a personal attack, since these people that he list have a NPOV and will not let this user stick his pro-Arab POV in articles and galleries. In his first paragraph on his user page, he also mentioned that some of the pages that he looks after "bigoted edits by a small group of editors" and that he calls users to "delete and revert narrow-minded edits" and that pretty much deals with anything that does not fit his pro-Arab POV. - Zscout370 14:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

See also his behaviour on Islamofascism, Judeofascism, and Religious imperialism. My attempts to get him to moderate his behaviour have been met with aggression and insult, both on my Talk page and by e-mail. It's not that his edits are always wrong, but they're accompanied by insulting and aggressive edit summaries and Talk-page comments. He clearly feels that everyone who disagrees with him does so out of bigotry and ill-intent. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 14:15, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Evidence of disputed behavior
(provide diffs and links)
 * Talk:Gallery of national flags
 * Islamist's User Page
 * , (these were in reply to  and ).

Applicable policies
{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}
 * Neutral point of view
 * No personal attacks ("Abusive edit summaries are particularly ill-regarded.")
 * Assume good faith ("semi policy")

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute
(provide diffs and links)
 * I have placed a notice on his talk page to try asking Islamist to tone down his POV
 * On the Talk:Gallery of national flags, me and a few others are trying to debate wether the Palestine flag should be added, but this user always states that Palestine should be included and adds it without the consensus. Islamist always states that places like Scotland (who are nearly in the same situation as Palestine) should not be added, but Palestine should be, thus showing his pro-Arab POV. - Zscout370 14:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * User talk:Islamist
 * User talk:Islamist

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

 * Zscout370 14:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 14:08, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary
(sign with ~ )
 * Mgm|(talk) 09:22, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Mrfixter 01:59, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Klonimus 03:53, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * SlimVirgin (talk) 21:05, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * UDoN't!wAn* 23:28, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Viriditas | Talk 10:25, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Thryduulf 20:22, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) having been the subject of a personal attack on my talk page for reminding him that personal attacks in edit summaries are not a good thing (I'll find the diff later).

Response
This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.

{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}

I don't really know about his activities on other pages, but his behaviour on talk:Gallery of national flags is not that remarkable. He's obviously a hothead, but he's not doing anything that other people, including admins, don't regularly do: he insists on his version of the article and vehemently argues his political POV on the talk page. As for his userpage - I'm not a fan of enemy lists myself, but calling people's edits biased and hostile is again not that remarkable. And of course, it's in the user namespace and has no effect on the quality of the encyclopaedia - if you don't like it, don't look at it.

I think that the demonstration of community's power to revert POV edits is a much better deterent for hothead newbies than loud shouting and wikilawyering.

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):
 * 1) Zocky 14:49, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) LevelCheck 21:07, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Users who do not endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):
 * 1) Thryduulf 20:25, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC) - this isn't about his POV edits, its about his personal attacks. Particularly in edit summaries.

Outside view
This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute.

I think that this is a content dispute. I'm not sure that RFC is the appropriate forum. Firebug 18:22, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, no (indeed, I specifically said that I agree with some of his edits). The main issues are personal attacks and general PoV pushing, not the content of specific articles. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 11:22, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * We can deal with content issues easily, but the main reason why I called for the RfC is because of his attacks against users (specific and groups of users). Zscout370 11:27, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):

Discussion
All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.

title: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Islamist


text:
Premier of the Kingdom of Viti

In 1871, Ratu Seru Epenisa Cakobau, the Vunivalu (Warlord/Paramount Chief) of Bau, succeeded in unifying the previously warring tribes throughout the Fiji Islands by establishing the Kingdom of Viti, with the support of foreigners. Cakobau proceeded to set up a constitutional monarchy, in which both the legislature and the executive were dominated by foreigners.

List of premiers of Viti (1871–1874)
Following is a list of people who have served as premier of Viti.

All existing government institutions were dissolved when Fiji became a British crown colony on 10 October 1874.

title: Premier of the Kingdom of Viti


text:
Mar de Copas

Mar de Copas is a Peruvian alternative rock band from Lima. They emerged from the South American independent music scene of the 1990s.

Mar de Copas sold over 50,000 copies of their first four albums in Peru, where an album with 5,000 copies sold is considered a "Disco de Oro" (Best-seller music award). No other Peruvian band has done the same. They are influenced by American and Spanish songwriters from the 1960s and 1980s, including music periods from La Nueva Ola and Alternative Rock.

History
Mar de Copas was founded by Manuel Barrios (guitar and vocals) and Eduardo Leverone (drums) in 1992, after splitting up their band Los Inocentes. Barrios and Leverone have confirmed they are heavily influenced by Nino Bravo, Manolo Galván, Los Secretos, El Ultimo de la Fila, Pistones, The Smiths, R.E.M., The Church, James, Elvis Presley and Carlos Gardel.

They worked with fellow musicians Miki González and Felix Torrealva on their first album under the name "As de Copas". They invited their close friends Claudia Salem and Phoebe Condos to sing backing vocals for the first seven songs they wrote. Luis "Wicho" García, who at the time worked as the sound engineer at the recording studio of Miki Gonzáles promised to sing the remaining songs and remain as their lead singer. García was part of Narcosis with Jorge "Pelo" Madueño and Fernando "Cachorro" Vial. García also played an important role in other projects for Miki Gonzáles such as La Banda Azul. By 1993, Barrios and Leverone finished writing 12 songs, and changed the name of the band to "Mar de Copas". The band signed a contract with El Virrey record company to initially make 300 cassette copies for them. Their first album was named "Mar de Copas". Songs like "Fugitivo" and "Canción" were inspired in trips they made to Punta Sal and Tarma respectively. Rodrigo Quijano wrote the song "Canción" which is considered their most notable trova song. Barrios and Leverone wrote melodies based on country music in "Recompensa" and "Héroe del delito". "Faena" is attributed to bullfighting and "Mujer Noche", their signature song, was chosen for their first music video. In August 1993, the band played live for the first time at the Phantom Pub in Lima.

In 1994, El Virrey changed their name to Eureka Records. Felix Torrealva left the band and Cesar Zamalloa became the new bass player. Zamalloa played for Orgus, Cimarrones, Oblivium, and formed his own metal band called Ultramotor. After Zamalloa joined the band, Mar de Copas finished writing and editing 12 new songs between October and November in 1994. The album Entre los Arboles was finalized and recorded in chronologic order when the songs were written. By local success, their first two albums Mar de Copas and Entre los Arboles, were sold in CD format. Songs like "Entre los Arboles" and "Tras Esa Puerta" have become their best feats impossible to replicate in their latest albums. Miki Gonzalez played the lead guitar on "Aqui en el borde del mar", Phoebe wrote the lyrics in "Blu Ice", and Barrios sang the full song "Morir un poco", attempting to duplicate his success in "Una Historia Mas" as done on the first album. After the album was finished, each member started alternate music projects that lasted until 1997. Mar de Copas has been called a depressive band due to their lyrics such as "El dolor después del amor / vuélvete a morir / no sé si ese cuerpo que cayó fui yo al morir, / enamorado de la soledad". Barrios has stated that his songs were written at the worst times in his life and that recording albums is a natural process.

Mar de Copas created their recording studio Villa Ruby and independent label Mar de Copas Productions S.A. In mid-1997, the band released their third album, III. The songs "C.P.A.M" and "L.B.", "Carta para amigos muertos" ("Letter for My Dead Friends"), and "Luis Barrios" (Manuel Barrios' brother), were the starting point for their recognition as "Banda de Culto" ("Cult band") in Perú. The band made the slang "caleta" commonly used in concerts by their fans when requesting songs that weren't part of their regular set list. "III" had no accompanying single. Barrios and Leverone wrote a song based on the Mexican Bolero called "Ni para rogar un beso" and their first vals "A Dios". "De tierra" is a song based on social issues from the 1990s and it became the name of their first recorded live concert at the Teatro Peruano Japonés years later. "L.B.", "Vaquera", and "Despedida" were included on the movie soundtrack of "No se lo digas a nadie". Despedida is considered one of their darkest songs as it relates to suicide and depression.

In 1998, the band re-released their first two albums with bonus tracks including songs like "Con el mar" (written by Zamalloa). In 1999, Mar de Copas released their fourth album Suna and three music videos. By then, they have influenced and produced for many bands in Lima such as Libido, Campo de Almas, TK, Dolores Delirio, Indigo, Cementerio Club, Wayo, Voz Propia, Daniel F, Zen and Los Hnos. Brother's. Their sound and lyrics evolved with the addition of new genres. For example, songs like "Samba" were inspired by Argentinean music. The song "Adios Amor" had inspiration from the war between Peru and Chile. The theme is about a Peruvian soldier who departed for the war on his wedding night and died in the battle of Tacna. "Adios Amor" became one of the favorite songs for radio stations in 1999. Mar de Copas had four hit singles that year. The band also recorded two Italian ballads: "Serenata" and "Desconcierto".

In 2000, Mar de Copas was the first local band to play at the "Gran Estelar de la Feria del Hogar", a festival that featured only international artists until that year. In 2001, the band moved to another studio in San Antonio Miraflores, Villa Ruby II. They had an active concert schedule for a year. In 2002, Mar de Copas released their first live double album "En Vivo". In November, Mar de Copas recorded a media album Ramera, which includes their four videos, an electric version of a song titled "Ramera", a demo song by Barrios titled "Cancion que dejo de andar", and four acoustic songs.

In 2004, Mar de Copas released Si algo asi como el amor esta en el aire and a month later presented the album live at El Parque de la Exposición. They received another "Disco de Oro" and had four number one songs: "Si algo asi como el amor esta en el aire", "Balada de un encuentro fugaz", "Perdido" and "Llevame". In October, the band recorded the first DVD Peruvian production De Tierra at the Teatro Peruano Japones. Mar de Copas edited these songs for their then-upcoming album De Tierra with acoustic songs and three unreleased demos: "Cada vez", "Vacio", and "Luis". In 2005, the DVD was released which includes the concert, rare footage of the band, videos, demos, and interviews of the band. By the end of the year, Mar de Copas made the soundtrack of "Un dia sin sexo" directed by Frank Pérez-Garland. In 2006, Claudia Salem left the band.

By the end of 2008, Mar de Copas played in Buenos Aires, Argentina at Centro Cultural Buen Ayre. In 2013 and after 9 years of their last album, the band released 2 albums, "Seis" and "Lado B". Seis features 12 songs and 2 new videos for "Siglo XX" and "Atardecer". The video for Atardecer was recorded with clip from fans and friends in the concert celebrating the release for their album at Embarcadero 41 in Barranco. It is also their first album to be available for purchase in iTunes. Lado B contains songs from movies, plays, and acoustic covers played in the last decade and recorded with electric guitars. Most of these songs were played in concerts "a capella" so they promised new versions to their fans. Covers included are "No Me Imagino" by Los Secretos and "Estación" by Sui Generis.

Since then, Mar de Copas is often the headliner of major rock concerts in Lima. They are the local band with most official album sales in Perú where piracy has increased since the 1990s. Mar de Copas plays a concert once a month at La Noche Bar in Barranco which considered today their home venue.

Members

 * Current Members:
 * Manuel "Manolo" Barrios - lead guitar and vocals
 * Luis "Wicho" García - vocals
 * Phoebe Condos - keyboards and backing vocals
 * Eduardo "Toto" Leverone - drums
 * César Zamalloa - bass

 * Former members:
 * Claudia Salem (1993–2005) - backing vocals and tambourine
 * Felix Torrealva (1993–1994) - bass

 * Guest musicians:
 * Miki González - guitar on "Aquí en el borde del mar" and harmonica on "Dulce y veloz"
 * Victor "El Gato" Villavicencio - piano and keyboards on "Prison" and "Cancion"
 * Miguel Navarro - English horn on "Cuenta la historia"

Discography

 * Mar de copas - 1993
 * Entre los arboles - 1994
 * III - 1997
 * Suna - 1999
 * 12 grandes exitos - 2000
 * En vivo (double disc) - 2002
 * Ramera (multimedia album) - 2002
 * Si algo asi como el amor esta en el aire - 2004
 * 12 canciones - 2004
 * De tierra - 2004
 * De tierra (DVD) - 2005
 * Todos los singles 2011
 * Seis - 2014
 * Lado B - 2014

Videography

 * "Mujer noche" is the first official video made by the original members, including former bassist Felix Torrealva. The second version of the song was recorded in 1998, especially to fit the video. The video has scenes from a concert at "La Pontificia Universidad Catolica del Peru" in 1993. "Mujer noche" was originally written and sung by Barrios. Hugo Martinez was director the video, while Giancarlo Paz was editor and Patricia Salazar was the visual arts manager.
 * "Enloqueciendo", the second official video, was made as a 16 mm film. The video features cities and locations in northern Lima and Barranco. The script was written, directed, edited, and produced by Rafael Besaccia.
 * The third official video, "Suna", features animated drawings. All the pictures are made by Rafael Besaccia with paint and brush on paper. The animations are based on classic techniques and visual poetry from the 20th century. Barrios states that "Suna" is an angel, and that the viewer will be able to follow and interpret the first person story throughout the video. At the end, there is an acoustic version of the song that was the suggested version of "Suna", but the band decided to add it as the ending of the song.
 * "El rumbo del mar", the fourth official video contains pictures and recordings created since 1992. It portrays how the band has changed over the years and how they started. Some of the scenes are live concerts in "La Feria del Hogar", "La Noche Pub", and "La Estacion" in Barranco; there is also footage depicting the entrance to Villa Ruby, live recordings, and fans of the band. The video was produced and edited by Gerardo Cristobal.

 * "Un dia sin sexo" is the fifth official Mar de Copas video. It was made for a Peruvian film of the same name. The video features clips from the movie and former member Claudia Salem before she left the band. The song was number one for seven weeks for the Peruvian radio station Studio 92. The theme of the video is to portrait the band on a distinctive red theater with bright lights on the background. The video was produced and directed by Frank Perez-Garland.
 * The "De tierra" DVD is the first Peruvian DVD production, released in 2005. The DVD features a live unplugged concert played in 2004 with 17 songs that are not part of the band's usual concert lists. The DVD also has previously unreleased material of the band, including interviews, T.V. appearances, and other concerts.

Related projects

 * No Name was a Beatles tribute band formed in 1981 by Luis Garcia, Mario Gomez, Joseph Newell, Daniel Padilla, and Coco Mariazza.
 * Narcosis was a punk band that lasted eight months and was formed in 1984 by Luis Garcia, Jorge Madueño, and Cachorro Vial. Narcosis recorded their only album, Primera Dosis, in 1985.
 * La Banda Azul was a pop rock band formed in 1986 by Luis Garcia, Miguel "Coyote" Denegri, Edgar Cuentas, Augusto Castro, and Manuel Garrido-Lecca. They recorded one album, Cuestion de Lugar in 1987.
 * Los Inocentes was a band formed in 1987 by Manuel Barrios, Gustavo Jimenez "La Planta", Arturo Rivas, and Toto Leverone.
 * Orgus was a heavy metal band which lasted until 1990 and which featured Cesar Zamalloa as guitarist. The band was awarded second place for a music challenge between 120 local bands made by the Esquina magazine.
 * Cimarrones was a rock band formed in 1990 by Daniel Flores, Constantino Alvarez, Cesar Zamalloa, and Chevo Ballumbrosio.
 * El Aire was a rock band formed in 1996 by Jose Javier Castro on lead guitar and vocals, Cesar Zamalloa on bass, Manuel Barrios on guitar, and Constantino Alvarez on drums. Other artists that have helped the band include Luis Sanguinetti, Adrian Arguedas, Gonzalo Farfan, Carlos Criminal, Crinsom Sinclair, and Armando Andrade. The band has played with Mouse on Mars on May 16, 2008.
 * Circo Ficcion was formed in 1996 by Cesar Zamalloa on bass, Ramon Perez-Prieto on guitar and vocals, Jorge de Tramontana on lead guitar, Constantino Alvarez on drums, and Grimaldo del Solar on guitar. This band recorded one album.
 * In 1997, Avispon Verde was formed by Rafael Morales on keyboards, guitar, and vocals; Pierpa de Bernardi on drums; and Cesar Zamalloa on bass. This band had one album recorded.
 * Los Trece Baladas was a cover band formed in 1998 by Manuel Barrios on guitar and vocals, Toto Leverone on drums, Cesar Zamalloa on bass, Abel "Capitan Pomada" Salcedo on guitar, and Jorge de Tramontana on lead guitar. Los Trece Baladas arranged covers of "La nueva ola" and they have gained international recognition from their albums Lo que un dia fue no sera and Volume 2. Some of the artists they covered include Nino Bravo, José José, Leonardo Favio, José Feliciano, Camilo Sesto, Nicola Di Bari, Juan Gabriel, Manolo Galvan, and Los Iracundos, among others.
 * Los Hnos. Brother's was a hard rock band formed in 1999 by Cesar Zamalloa on bass, Eduardo Chaparro on vocals, Jorge de Tramontana on lead guitar, and Hector Quintanilla on drums.
 * Ultramotor is a hardcore formed in 2001 by Cesar Zamalloa on guitar, Constantino Alvarez on drums, and Alfonso Montesinos on bass.
 * Luis Garcia & Fernando Chirinos is a duo that sings and plays acoustic songs A cappella of Los Secretos, Antonio Vega, Pistones, Duncan Dhu, Gabinete Caligari, Nacha Pop, La Granja, Metadona, Narcosis, Enrique Urquijo y Los Problemas, El Ultimo de la Fila, Mama, Los Bolidos, 12 Garras, and Radio Futura.

Soundtracks

 * The 1998 Peruvian/Spanish movie "No se lo digas a nadie", directed by Francisco J. Lombardi, featured three Mar de Copas songs: "LB", "Vaquera", and "Despedida". The accompanying novel was written by Jaime Bayly and produced by Andres Vicente Gomez.
 * The 2001 Peruvian/German movie "Y si te vi, no me acuerdo", directed by Miguel Barreda Delgado and produced by Stefan Kaspar, had 57 songs written and recorded by Luis Garcia.
 * The 2001 Peruvian movie "Bala perdida", directed by Aldo Salvini and produced by Iguana Productions, had 36 original songs by Manuel Barrios and two by Luis García; García edited the songs a year later.
 * The 2005 Peruvian movie "Un día sin sexo", directed by Frank Perez-Garland and produced by Fabrizio Aguilar, had five Mar de Copas songs, four of which were unreleased: "Viejo amor, nuevo amor", "Lisa en el espejo", "Llévame", "Falso amor", and "Un día sin sexo".

title: Mar de Copas