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Glitter (soundtrack)

Glitter is the soundtrack to the 2001 film of the same title and the eighth studio album by American singer-songwriter Mariah Carey. It was released in the U.S. on September 11, 2001, the same day as the September 11 attacks, by Virgin Records. Mixing dance-pop, funk, hip hop and R&B, the album was a departure from Carey's previous releases, focusing heavily on a 80's post-disco sound to accompany the film which was set in 1983. The singer collaborated with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and DJ Clue, who also co-produced the album. The album several musical acts such as Eric Benét, Ludacris, Da Brat, Busta Rhymes, Fabolous, and Ja Rule.

Upon release, both the album and its accompanying film were panned by critics. Retrospective reviews, however, have been largely positive, with many saying the album was unfairly maligned. Despite this, Glitter was universally viewed as a commercial and critical failure, leading to Virgin Records dropping Carey from the label and buying her out of their $80 million contract. While the album debuted at number seven on the US Billboard 200, it marked Carey's lowest first-week sales at the time. Internationally, it topped the charts in Japan and Greece.

Several singles were released, including "Loverboy", which served as the lead single from the album and quickly became Carey's lowest-charting lead single globally and peaked at number two on the US Billboard Hot 100. Subsequent singles failed to make much of an impact on prominent global charts. Nearly two decades after its release, Glitter began to attract wide praise from mainstream critics and has developed a cult following. On May 22, 2020, Carey announced the album's release on streaming services.

Background and development
Following the release of Carey's album Butterfly in 1997, she began working on a film and soundtrack project titled at that time as All That Glitters. However, Columbia Records and Carey were also working on a greatest hits album to be released in time for Thanksgiving season in November 1998. Carey put All That Glitters on hold and her greatest hits album #1's was released in November 1998. Carey put the project on hold again to record her album Rainbow (1999). After the album ran its course, Carey wanted to finish the film and soundtrack project. But by this time, Carey and her now ex-husband Tommy Mottola, head of her record company Columbia, did not have a good working or personal relationship. Mottola wanted Carey off the label and Carey wanted to leave; however, she still owed Columbia one more album to fulfill her contract. Virgin Records stepped in and offered to pay Columbia $20 million to let Carey out of her contract early so that they could sign her for a $100 million deal.

Carey signed with Virgin and aimed to complete the film and soundtrack project. As part of her contract on her $100 million five-album record deal with Virgin Records, Carey was given full creative control. She opted to record an album partly mixed with 1980s influenced disco and other similar genres, in order to go with the film's setting. As the release date grew nearer, the film and album title were changed from All That Glitters to Glitter. In early 2001, Carey's relationship with Latin singer Luis Miguel ended, while she was busy filming Glitter and recording the soundtrack. Due to the pressure of losing her relationship, being on a new record label, filming a movie, and recording an album, Carey began to have a nervous breakdown. She began posting a series of disturbing messages on her official website, and displayed erratic behavior while on several promotional outings.

Genres and themes
Musically, Glitter was notably different from Carey's previous work as she drew influence from the 1980s. Due to the parent film taking place in 1983, the soundtrack harbored on recreating an older sound, while incorporating the usual pop-R&B ballads for which Carey was known. While some critics favored the album's retro style, and inclusion of several sampled melodies, many felt that Glitter lacked originality, and its excess of guest artists overpowered Carey's artistry. In an interview with MTV News, Carey described the album's content and influences noting, There are songs that are definitely going to take people back and make them go, 'Oh, man, this song from the '80s — I loved it growing up'. Or people who never heard the songs before might be like, 'This is cool.' When you see the movie, you're gonna see the uptempo songs and the songs that are remakes in there as they would have sounded in the '80s, but the album is the way that I would make the record now, and the ballads can stand on their own as songs from a Mariah Carey album.

Music and lyrics
The album beings with a remix of "Loverboy" featuring a sample from Cameo's "Candy", which interpolates its instrumental and its melody into the song's chorus. Sarah Rodman from the Boston Herald compared it to Carey's previous lead singles, and described its production as "another in an increasingly long line of glitzy, candy-coated, creatively stunted Carey songs". The song's lyrics and vocals were described as "super-sexed" by Sal Cinquemani from Slant Magazine when put into comparison with Carey's previous work. The remix featured rap verses from Ludacris, Da Brat, Twenty II and Shawnna. This was followed with "Lead the Way", originally conceptualized for Carey's 1997 Butterfly album. The song was written and produced by Carey and Walter Afanasieff. The ballad marked the last song composed by the pair, as they halted work with one another shortly after its completion due to their growing creative differences. Recorded in 2000 when Carey began producing Glitter, the song begins with a classic and simple piano introduction with Carey starting the song off with soft and breathy vocals. This eventually leads into a vocal climax, in which she belts an 18-second note, the longest from any of her recordings. Carey has since called the song one of her "best vocal performances", as well as one of her "favorite songs."

"If We" featured rapper Ja Rule and Nate Dogg and garnered comparisons to Ashanti and Christina Milian. "Didn't Mean to Turn You On" is a cover of the 1984 Cherelle song of the same title. Carey produced the song alongside Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and added keyboard notes and synthesizers to enhance the songs club appeal. In the song, Carey sings "I was only trying to be nice / Only trying to be nice / Sooooooo, I didn't mean to turn you on", indicating a woman who is weakly apologetic over fooling a man over intimacy. "Don't Stop (Funkin' 4 Jamaica)" was composed by Carey and DJ Clue, and interpolates "Funkin' for Jamaica (N.Y.)" by Tom Browne. Featuring guest verses from Mystikal, with the former declaring "Ain't nothin' you could do with the man / Except for shake your ass and clap your hands", while Carey responds "Don't stop baby, its ecstasy / Turn me up a little."

"All My Life" was penned by Rick James and was called the "album standout". This is followed by "Reflections (Care Enough)" which was written by Carey and Philippe Pierre. Lyrically, the song's protagonist "laments the end of a relationship", while also confronting her mother regarding her early abandonment. Additionally, during the song's bridge, Carey "eerily" refers to the option of abortion over abandoning a child. Cinquemani felt the song was reminiscent of Carey's earlier ballads during her career, and described the song as a "simple beauty". In a review for the album in The Free Lance–Star, a writer called the song an "emotional and heart-wrenching ballad".

Carey's cover of the 1982 Indeep song "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" was club-themed. The song featured rappers Fabolous and Busta Rhymes, and was composed and produced by Carey and DJ Clue. The song received generally mixed reviews with Michael Paoletta from Billboard called it a "painful low" on Glitter, and commented how Carey seemed detached and over-powered on the song, due to the inclusion of several male guests. "Want You" featured American singer Eric Benét while lyrically implying and suggesting the "exploration of bedroom fantasies." "Never Too Far" was written and produced by Carey and Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and was described as an "adult-contemporary, slow-jam love song". It features "a bed of synthesized strings, gentle drums and Spanish-style guitar" as its primary instrumentation, and incorporates violin and keyboard notes prior to the first verse.

This was followed by "Twister", another ballad which was called "quietly heartbreaking", in reference to its lyrics which talk about the suicide of Carey's friend and hairstylist, Tonjua Twist. According to Carey, Twist took her own life in the spring of 2000, and was known for her joy of life and her ability to put people at ease. She was "child like and effervescent", but behind her mask of happiness was "a well" of lifelong and deep-rooted pain. In "Twister", Carey described the hidden inner-struggle of her friend, and tried to find "closure"; her "way of saying goodbye". Chris Chuck from Daily News described its lyrics as "an airy requiem for a friend lost to suicide" and felt it was "the only memorable song on the album." With lyrics reading "Feelin' kinda fragile and I've got a lot to handle / But I guess this is my way of saying goodbye", David Browne from Entertainment Weekly felt that Carey was possibly referring to her own suicide rather than her friends, especially in light of the events that were taking place during the album's release. The album ends with the original version of "Loverboy" featuring Cameo.

Singles
"Loverboy" was released as the lead single from Glitter on June 18, 2001. The song received mixed reviews from music critics, with many both criticizing and praising the inclusion of the "Candy" sample. It became Carey's weakest charting lead single at the time, reaching number two on the Billboard Hot 100. Following Carey's publicized hospitalization and breakdown, as well as Virgin's price reduction on the single, "Loverboy" managed to attain a new peak of number two on the chart. Although being propelled by high sales, radio airplay was still weak, due to many radio DJs feeling tepid towards its 1980s retro sound. Accompanied by little promotion from Carey, due to her hospitalization, "Loverboy" quickly descended the Hot 100. Outside the United States, the song attained weak charting, peaking inside the top ten in Australia and Canada, and within the top twenty in Italy and the United Kingdom. The music video for "Loverboy" features Carey dressed in a variation of revealing outfits, while patrolling a large race track as her 'loverboy' wins the race. The video was notable for portraying Carey in a more sexually oriented manner than before.

"Never Too Far", the album's second single, was released on August 14, 2001. It failed to impact the main Billboard chart, and achieved weak international charting. Carey was unable to film a music video for the single, as she was still recovering from her collapse. Instead, a video was created using a scene taken directly from the film Glitter, where Billie Frank (played by Carey) sings the song at Madison Square Garden during her first sold-out concert. Frank's performance of the song in the film omits its entire second verse, and the song's development runs in parallel with the film's love story.

The album's third single, "Don't Stop (Funkin' 4 Jamaica)", released on September 11, 2001, the same day as the September 11 attacks, mirrored the same weak charting as "Never Too Far", although receiving more rotation on MTV due to its video. Directed by Sanaa Hamri, it features the theme of southern bayous and lifestyles, and presents Carey and Mystikal in "southern style" clothing and hairstyles. Some shots feature three versions of Carey singing into a microphone on the screen at one time.

The fourth and final single released from Glitter was "Reflections (Care Enough)", which received a limited release in Japan on September 27, 2001. Following its limited promotional push from Virgin, and the absence of a music video, the song failed to make much of an impact.

Critical reception
The website Metacritic, which averages professional reviews into a numerical score, assigned the album a score of 59/100, indicating "mixed or average reviews". AllMusic critic Stephen Thomas Erlewine gave the album two and a half out of five stars, calling it an "utter meltdown -- the pop equivalent of Chernobyl" and wrote "It's an embarrassment, one that might have been easier to gawk at if its creator wasn't so close to emotional destruction at the time of release." Michael Paoletta from Billboard was less critical, citing it as a "minor misstep in a stellar career that has earned the singer a few free passes. Editor Sarah Rodman from The Boston Herald gave Glitter a mixed review, praising Carey's song-writing and voice, although panning the excess of secondary musical guests. While criticizing the album's roster of appearances, Rodman wrote "the artists contribute mostly distracting, self-promoting jibber jabber all over what could have been Carey's best, most emotionally mature record to date." Daily News editor Chuck Campley rated the album two and a half out of five stars, writing "Maybe this was the best Mariah Carey could muster under the circumstances, but 'Glitter' needed more work." David Browne from Entertainment Weekly gave Glitter a mixed review, criticizing the abundance of rappers and describing Carey's vocals as "barely there" on several tracks. Concluding his review on a poor note, Browne wrote "'Glitter' is a mess, but its shameless genre hopping (and Carey's crash) makes it an unintentional concept album about the toll of relentless careerism."

Heather Vaughn from The Free-Lance Star gave Glitter a positive review, complimenting both the dance-oriented tracks, as well as the ballads. In reference to their weight on the album as a whole, Vaughn wrote "Sounds like Mariah's other albums, but with more of an 80s twist. The ballads really let you hear how stunning her voice actually is." Los Angeles Times critic and writer Natalie Nichols gave Glitter two out of a possible four stars, writing how Carey let the album "reflect the synth-driven robo-funk of that wretched decade." Nichols called the album's covers "tepid and pointless", while agreeing that Carey was overwhelmed by the many guest rappers, calling her voice "semi-disguised". Rob Sheffield from Rolling Stone gave the album three out of five stars, criticizing the ballads as "big and goopy, with zero melodic or emotional punch." Aside from the ballads, Sheffield felt Glitter failed to deliver the success or quality that Carey needed on her debut film and soundtrack. He concluded his review of the album with a comparison to Whitney Houston's massive The Bodyguard (1992), "Mariah still hasn't found her theme song, the one people will remember her voice by. Glitter is good enough to make you hope she finds it." Slant Magazine editor Sal Cinquemani awarded Glitter three out of five stars, writing "Carey's edgier tracks are inundated with so many guest artists that her sound ultimately becomes muddled; her pop tunes are so formulaic that it's difficult to distinguish one from the next." USA Today's Edna Gunderson rated the album one and a half out of four stars, criticizing Carey's overall image for the project, as well as the many guest artists on the record. She described Carey as "cheapening her image" and wrote "The whiff of desperation grows more pungent on 'Glitter' in Carey's gratuitous coloratura and transparent enlistment of street-cred boosters such as rappers Ja Rule and Mystikal.

Commercial performance
Glitter became Carey's least commercially successful album to that point. It debuted at number seven on the Billboard 200 with first-week sales of 116,000 copies, but far from the first-week sales of 323,000 with her previous release, Rainbow, in 1999. Glitter became Carey's lowest-peaking album in the United States, alongside her second album Emotions (1991), coming in at number four. It remained in the album's chart for only eight weeks, and was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), denoting shipments of 500,000 units; and as it fell from the charts, received platinum certification, denoting shipments of 1 million in the US. As of November 2018, Nielsen SoundScan estimates sales of the Glitter album at 666,000 copies in the United States. In Canada, the album peaked at number four on the Canadian Albums Chart. Glitter entered the Australian Albums Chart at its peak position of number thirteen, during the week dated September 9, 2001. Remaining in the chart for only three weeks, the album made its exit at number forty on September 23. Similarly in Austria, Glitter peaked at number fourteen, remaining on the albums chart for only four weeks.

In both the Flemish and Wallonian territories in Belgium, Glitter peaked at numbers ten and eleven, respectively, while charting for a total of four weeks. In France, Glitter peaked at number five on the albums chart, during the week dated September 15, 2001. Following seventeen weeks fluctuating in the chart, the album was certified Gold by the Syndicat National de l'Édition Phonographique (SNEP), denoting shipments of 100,000 units. On the Dutch Albums Chart, Glitter debuted at number twenty-six, during the week dated September 22, 2001. Reaching its peak position of number twelve the following week, the album remained a total of six weeks in the albums chart. In both New Zealand and Norway, Glitter peaked at number eleven, staying within the chart for four and one weeks, respectively. In Switzerland, the album peaked at number seven, and stayed within the chart for ten weeks. The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) certified Glitter Gold in Switzerland, for shipments of 20,000 copies. On the UK Albums Chart dated September 22, 2001, the album made its debut at number ten. The following week, Glitter fell to number twenty-seven, staying in the chart for one more additional week. British sales of the album are at 55,080 units as of July 2014. In Japan, Glitter saw particular commercial success, debuting atop the albums chart and selling 450,000 units within a month of release. The album has sold over two million copies worldwide as of 2002.

In November 2018, the album became the subject of a campaign by Carey fans and reached number one on the iTunes albums charts in several countries worldwide, including the United States.

"Loverboy" sample
Throughout 2000, Carey had already been writing and recording material for Glitter and during this period, she developed the concept for "Loverboy". Originally, Carey had sampled the melody and hook from the 1978 Yellow Magic Orchestra song "Firecracker", using an interpolation of it throughout the chorus and introduction. In early theatrical trailers for Glitter, the original version of "Loverboy" was still featured. As Carey had ended her contract with Columbia Records, Jennifer Lopez was signed by Tommy Mottola, and had begun recording material for her album J.Lo (2001). According to record producer Irv Gotti, Mottola knew of Carey's usage of the "Firecracker" sample, and attempted to have Lopez use the same sample before her. At the time, Carey had become increasingly paranoid over outside executives being informed about Glitter, especially following news of Lopez's "theft" of the song. When the music publishers for "Firecracker" were questioned, they admitted Carey had licensed usage of the sample first (and was in fact the first artist to ever request a license for a sample of that song), and Lopez had signed for it over one month later, under Mottola's arrangement. Ultimately, Carey was unable to use the original sample, as Lopez's album was to be released far earlier than Glitter. She subsequently changed the composition of "Loverboy" and incorporated a new sample, "Candy" by Cameo. The "Firecracker" sample was eventually used by Lopez on her song "I'm Real" and according to Gotti, Mottola contacted him with instructions to create the Murder Remix of "I'm Real" to sound exactly like another Glitter track he produced, titled "If We" featuring rappers Ja Rule and Nate Dogg. The original version of "Loverboy" with the "Firecracker" sample was later included on Carey's 2020 compilation album The Rarities.

TRL incident
Following commencement for Glitter and the release of the soundtrack's lead single "Loverboy", Carey embarked on a short promotional campaign for the song and its parent album. On July 19, 2001, Carey made a surprise appearance on the MTV program Total Request Live (TRL). As the show's host Carson Daly began taping following a commercial break, Carey began singing "Loverboy" a cappella from behind a curtain. As he questioned the audience, she came out onto the filming stage, pushing an ice cream cart while wearing a large men's shirt. Seemingly anxious and exhilarated, Carey began delivering individual bars of ice cream to fans and guests on the program, while waving to the crowd down below on Times Square, and joking that the event was her "therapy". Carey then walked to Daly's platform and began a striptease, in which she shed her shirt to reveal a tight yellow and green ensemble, leading him to exclaim "Mariah Carey has lost her mind!" While she later revealed that Daly was aware of her presence in the building prior to her appearance, she admitted that he was meant to act surprised in order to provide a more dramatic effect for the program. Carey's appearance on TRL garnered strong media attention, with many critics and newspapers citing her behavior as "troubled" and "erratic".

Hospitalization
In the days following her appearance on TRL, Carey began displaying what was described as "erratic behavior". On July 20, Carey held a record signing for the CD single of "Loverboy" at Roosevelt Field shopping mall in Long Island before fans and the media. As a camera crew covered the event, she began rambling on several subjects before finally discussing radio host Howard Stern and how his jokes about herself on his program bothered her greatly and how everything general in life should be positive. At that point, Carey's publicist, Cindi Berger, grabbed the microphone from her hand, and asked the news crew to stop filming. Berger said later, "She was not speaking clearly and not talking about what she had come to talk about: her record." Only days later, Carey began posting irregular voice notes and messages on her official website: I'm trying to understand things in life right now and so I really don't feel that I should be doing music right now. What I'd like to do is just a take a little break or at least get one night of sleep without someone popping up about a video. All I really want is [to] just be me and that's what I should have done in the first place ... I don't say this much but guess what, I don't take care of myself. Following the quick removal of the messages, Berger commented that Carey had been "obviously exhausted and not thinking clearly" when she posted the letters. Two days later, on July 26, she was hospitalized, citing "extreme exhaustion" and a "physical and emotional breakdown". News websites and programs began reporting how Carey threatened to commit suicide by slitting her wrists the night before, and how Patricia, Carey's mother, hastily called for help. When questioned regarding Carey's suicidal rumor, Berger claimed Carey had broken dishes out of desperation, and as a result, accidentally cut her hands and feet. Following her induction at an un-disclosed hospital in Connecticut, Carey remained hospitalized and under doctoral care for two weeks, followed by an extended absence from the public.

In April 2018, Carey revealed in a People magazine interview that she was diagnosed with Bipolar II disorder during the hospitalization.

Project delay
Following the heavy media coverage surrounding Carey's publicized breakdown and hospitalization, Virgin Records and 20th Century Fox delayed the release of Glitter, as well as its soundtrack of the same name. The announcement was made on August 9, 2001, that both the soundtrack and the film would be postponed three weeks, respectively from August 21 to September 11, and from August 31 to September 21. When asked regarding the motives behind the delay, Nancy Berry, vice chairman of Virgin Music Group Worldwide, addressed Carey's personal and physical condition: Mariah is looking forward to being able to participate in both her album and movie projects and we are hopeful that this new soundtrack release date will allow her to do so. She has been making great recovery progress, and continues to grow stronger every day. Virgin Music Worldwide continues to give its absolute commitment and support to Mariah on every level. When discussing the project's weak commercial reaction, Carey blamed the September 11 attacks. Carey made specific remarks regarding the album's commercial failure, stating: "I released it on September 11, 2001. The talk shows needed something to distract from 9/11. I became a punching bag. I was so successful that they tore me down because my album was at number 2 instead of number 1. The media was laughing at me and attacked me." Vulture writer Matthew Jacobs noted that, "two dynamics were working against [the film] at once: post-9/11, Americans simply weren't going to the movies, and certainly not to see what had been framed as a slice of celebrity fluff".

Departure from Virgin
Glitter performed poorly at the box office. Following the poor sales of the album as well, Virgin invoked a clause in its contract with Carey that allowed the label to remove itself from the $100 million deal for approximately $28 million. Subsequently, Virgin dismissed Carey from the label roster. These decisions were brought on due to the low sales of the album, as well as the negative publicity surrounding her breakdown. While the two sides were laying out the terms for her exit from Virgin, Carey's team requested that the two parties just use the word "canceled" when asked by the media regarding the failed venture. Less than 24 hours after the settlement was made, Virgin released a statement that they had "terminated" the contract with Carey, and paid her $28 million to do so. Carey's lawyers threatened to sue, with her attorney Marshall Grossman calling their behavior in the matter "deplorable". Virgin replied that in terms of Carey's payout, they only listed the money they gave her for departing, not including the $23.5 million they already had paid while under contract for the first and only album they released by her. Additionally, Virgin stated they would counter-sue Carey for "defamation" following Carey's press release. The matter was resolved outside of court, with Carey and Virgin opting not to take the matter to the judicial system. Soon after, Carey flew to Italy for a period of five months. After several months, Carey signed a new $20 million deal with Island Records, which also included Carey's own vanity label, MonarC Entertainment.

Legacy and cultural impact
Almost two decades after its release, Glitter began to attract wide reappraisal and praise from mainstream critics and has developed a cult following. Kara Brown of Jezebel praised Glitter and cited: "Mariah was ahead of us all and the time is now". Mike Waas of Idolator commented that Glitter was "a misunderstood [record]" and called it "the biggest pop music injustices of the 21st century". Daniel Welsh of MSN gave the album a positive feedback and felt that "the brilliance of Glitter has gone unappreciated for too long". In a later article for Complex, Michael Arceneaux described the album as "the perfect '80s tribute". In a Vulture article, Dee Lockett described this record as "undeniably ahead of its time even despite it being an homage to disco."

In 2017, Everett Brothers of Billboard ranked "Lead the Way" as the second most underappreciated song of Carey's discography, while "There for Me", a B-side track of "Never Too Far/Hero Medley" 2001 single, was picked as the third best song out this rate. Brothers argues that "Lead the Way" shows Carey's "strongest vocal performance of the 2000s." Rich Juzwiak of Gawker ranked "Loverboy" as the eighteenth best single of Carey's career. In 2014 article for MySpace, Steven J. Horowitz praised a remix version of "Loverboy", which was included to Glitter tracklist: "Mariah invoked the ‘80s and relatively played the background to satiating verses from hot-right-nows and longtime friends.". He placed this version on the 11th place of Carey's all remixes rating, while Mark Graham of VH1 ordered this remix as the thirtieth best song of her catalog.

In October 2020, after 19 years, the original version of "Loverboy", with the "Firecracker" sample, was released as part of the compilation album The Rarities. In an article celebrating 20 years of Glitters release, Billboard writer Jon O'Brien stated that,"'Glitter was heavily criticized at the time for overloading its ten tracks with guest rappers. DJ Clue, Busta Rhymes and Fabolous essentially relegate Carey to supporting player on a perfunctory cover of Indeep's club classic 'Last Night a DJ Saved My Life,' while Nate Dogg and Ja Rule compete for attention on the anachronistic turn-of-the-century hip-pop of 'If We.' Yet look at any given top 10 from the last decade and you could argue Carey was simply foreshadowing a time when every other hit has a featuring, vs or x credit'."

PopMatters writer Peter Piatkowski called it one of the "best dance-pop albums of the last 20 years."

#JusticeForGlitter
In November 2018, the album became the subject of a campaign by Carey fans as part of the build-up to her fifteenth studio album, Caution. Promoted on social media with the hashtag, the campaign resulted in the album reaching number one on the iTunes albums charts in several countries including the United States, and top 10 in several countries worldwide. Carey herself acknowledged and praised the campaign through social media and interviews. She eventually added a medley of songs from the album on her Caution World Tour as a thank you to her fans.

Track listing
Notes
 * signifies an additional producer
 * signifies a co-producer
 * "Loverboy" and "Loverboy (Remix)" both contain a sample of "Candy" by Cameo.
 * "Didn't Mean to Turn You On" is a cover of Cherrelle's "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On". The cover is produced by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, who produced Cherrelle's original song. Mariah sang over the original instrumental as well.
 * "Don't Stop (Funkin' 4 Jamaica)" contains interpolates of "Funkin' for Jamaica (N.Y.)" by Tom Browne.
 * "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" contains a sample of "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See" by Busta Rhymes and is a cover of "Last Night a D.J. Saved My Life" by Indeep.

Personnel
Credits for Glitter adapted from AllMusic.

 * Mariah Carey – arranger, executive producer, producer, vocal arrangement, vocals, background vocals
 * Eric Benét – performer
 * Elliott Blakey – assistant
 * Lee Blaske – string arrangements
 * Busta Rhymes – performer
 * Cameo – performer
 * Da Brat – performer
 * Damizza – producer
 * Dana Jon Chappelle – engineer, vocal engineer, mixing
 * DJ Clue – producer, background vocals
 * Fabolous – performer
 * Tony Gonzales – assistant
 * Kevin Guarnieri – assistant engineer, digital editing
 * Fernando Harkless – flute
 * Michael Herring – guitar
 * Steve Hodge – engineer, mixing
 * Ja Rule – performer
 * Jimmy Jam – arranger, executive producer, producer, production assistant
 * John Kennedy – violin
 * Clark Kent – producer
 * Anthony Kilhoffer – assistant
 * Terry Lewis – arranger, executive producer, producer, production assistant
 * Bryan Loren – keyboards
 * Trey Lorenz – background vocals
 * Ludacris – performer
 * Bob Ludwig – mastering
 * Brenda Mickens – violin
 * Mystikal – performer
 * Jon Nettlesbey – assistant
 * Pete Novak – assistant
 * Tim Olmstead – assistant
 * Derek Organ – drums
 * Alice Preves – violin
 * Alexander Richbourg – drum programming
 * David Rideau – engineer
 * Torrel Ruffin – guitar
 * Leslie Shank – violin
 * Pitnarry Shin – cello
 * Ryan Smith – assistant
 * Xavier Smith – assistant, assistant engineer, mixing
 * Jason Stasium – assistant
 * Tamas Strasser – violin
 * Mary Ann Tatum – background vocals
 * Bradley Yost – assistant, assistant engineer, mixing

title: Glitter (soundtrack)


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Talk:Berryhill, Oklahoma

Because articles on W. 41st St., W. 21st St., S.57th W. Ave. and Southwest Boulevard were deemed not notable enough for Wikipedia and deleted, I have stopped adding to this Wikipedia article. I have continued writing about Berryhill and other communities in West Tulsa on Wikinfo. The article there has more information. Follow the link at the bottom of the Wikipedia article to go there.AboutWestTulsa 18:11, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"9 or 10 churches," "a business or two," I was told that is informal, and wikipedia can't stand unformalness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.94.145 (talk) 14:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Berryhill, Oklahoma


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Symphonia

Symphonia (Greek συμφωνία) is a much-discussed word, applied at different times to the bagpipe, the drum, the hurdy-gurdy, and finally a kind of clavichord. The sixth of the musical instruments enumerated in Book of Daniel, (verses 5, 10 and 15), translated "dulcimer" in the 17th-century King James Bible; in all probability it refers to the bagpipe.

The symphonia, signifying drum, is mentioned in Isidore of Seville's Etymologiae under the entries for tympanum and sambuca.

"Symphonia" or chifonie was applied during the 13th and 14th centuries, in the Latin countries more especially, to the hurdy-gurdy. "Symphonia" is applied by Praetorius to an instrument which he classed with the clavichord, spinet, regal and virginals, but without giving any clue to its distinctive characteristics.

title: Symphonia


text:
List of sports television broadcast contracts

Sports broadcasting rights in various countries include:

Americas

 * Canada
 * United States

Europe

 * United Kingdom

American football

 * National Football League

Association football

 * National team competitions

 * 2022 FIFA World Cup
 * #Broadcasting
 * 2024 UEFA European Championship

 * International club competitions

 * UEFA Champions League
 * UEFA Europa League
 * UEFA Europa Conference League
 * Copa Libertadores
 * Copa Sudamericana

 * National club competitions

 * English Premier League
 * FA Cup
 * EFL Cup
 * Spanish La Liga
 * Copa del Rey
 * German Bundesliga
 * DFB-Pokal
 * Italian Serie A
 * Coppa Italia
 * French Ligue 1
 * Dutch Eredivisie

Basketball

 * NBA
 * Euroleague

Motorsports

 * Formula 1
 * Formula E
 * MotoGP
 * FIA World Rally Championship

Multisports

 * 2024 Summer Olympics
 * 2022 Winter Olympics
 * 2020 Summer Olympics

Tennis

 * Australian Open
 * French Open
 * Wimbledon
 * US Open

Other

 * Cricket
 * Major League Baseball
 * National Hockey League
 * World Rugby Sevens Series


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1928 in Norwegian football

Results from Norwegian football in 1928.

Class A of local association leagues
Class A of local association leagues (kretsserier) is the predecessor of a national league competition.

 * 1In the following season, local associations Lillestrøm og omegn and Eidsvoll og omegn merged to form Romerike.

National team
Sources:

Nordic Football Championship

 * Table

title: 1928 in Norwegian football


text:
Ampoule

An ampoule (also ampul and ampule) is a small sealed vial which is used to contain and preserve a sample, usually a solid or liquid. Ampoules are usually made of glass.

Modern ampoules are most commonly used to contain pharmaceuticals and chemicals that must be protected from air and contaminants. They are hermetically sealed by melting the thin top with an open flame, and usually opened by snapping off the neck. The space above the chemical may be filled with an inert gas before sealing. The walls of glass ampoules are usually sufficiently strong to be brought into a glovebox without any difficulty.

Glass ampoules are more expensive than bottles and other simple containers, but there are many situations where their superior imperviousness to gases and liquids and all-glass interior surface are worth the extra cost. Examples of chemicals sold in ampoules are injectable pharmaceuticals, air-sensitive reagents like tetrakis(triphenylphosphine)palladium(0), hygroscopic materials like deuterated solvents and trifluoromethanesulfonic acid, and analytical standards.

Ampoules can be pressurised, have air evacuated from them, and have the air in the ampoule replaced with other gasses, often inert ones. The radio-pharmaceutical Xenon-133 often is packaged in glass ampoules and specially-shaped glass ampoules have long been used for samples of gaseous elements, such as all of the noble gases save radon (mainly because it is radioactive with a half life less than half a week) and special thick-walled quartz and fluorite ampoules under high pressure containing fluorine and chlorine liquefied by the high pressure

Teflon ampoules have been developed, based on the concept of the Teflon jug for high-molarity hydrofluoric acid, for containing chemicals that would corrode and/or ignite glass and/or contaminate themselves, corrode, or disintegrate metal containers where the reagent does not passivate the metal by rapidly forming a layer of a new inert compound on the metal surface reliably and predictably or at all.

Photosensitive chemicals like many 14-dihydromorphinone opioids like hydromorphone and oxymorphone, various silver salts and so on can be packaged in ampoules of smoked glass, glass with chemicals added in manufacturing that filter out ultraviolet and other types of light, or be made with an opaque top and bottom (usually painted with opaque paint) and the rest of the ampoule wrapped in thick paper.

Historic ampoules
Historically, ampoules were used to contain a small sample of a person's blood after death, which was entombed alongside them in many Christian catacombs. It was originally believed that only martyrs were given this burial treatment, though it is suspected to have been a widely practiced tradition.

San Gennaro
An ampoule, allegedly dating back to the year 305 and filled with the blood of Saint Januarius (San Gennaro), bishop of Benevento, has been kept for centuries in the Cathedral at Naples. Every year on 19 September the town celebrates the Feast of San Gennaro, when the solid reddish-brown contents of the ampoule usually liquifies after being taken out of a safe, carried in procession and placed on the Cathedral's altar.

Sainte Ampoule
Another well-known ampoule is the Holy Ampulla (Sainte Ampoule) which held the anointing oil for the coronation of the French monarchs. The oil was allegedly passed down from the time of Clovis I; it was kept for a time in the tomb of Saint Remigius and later in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame, Reims. It was used at the coronation of Charles X in 1825.

Standardization
The production and packaging of ampoules are largely standardized by ISO 9187-1:2010 Injection equipment for medical use — Part 1: Ampoules for injectables. This standard dictates three standardized forms: B, cut/straight-form; C, open-funnel; and D, sealed. (The "A" form is no longer used in the pharmaceutical industry and is not included in the updated version.) ISO 9187-1:2010 addresses what materials should be used in their manufacture, what the dimensions should be, what capacities they should have, how they should perform, and how they should be packaged. Characteristics such as breaking force, hydrolytic resistance, and annealing quality are specified for all three forms.

Fabrication
Modern glass ampoules are produced industrially from short lengths of glass tubing, shaped by heating with gas torches and gravity in automated production lines. Computer vision techniques are usually employed for quality control.

Ampoule codes
Ampoules often have colored rings of paint or enamel around their necks that are meant to identify the substance inside the ampoule. The rings are machine-readable and allow for accurate handling of the substance for the purposes of storage, labeling, and secondary packaging.

Color coding of modern ampoules is done during the manufacturing process. A machine applies colored rings on the ampoule between the two ovens.

Filling
The filling and sealing of ampoules may be done by automated machinery on an industrial scale, or by hand in small-scale industries and laboratory. Ampoule-filling machines can be categorized in three categories called automatic machine, semi automatic machine, and manual (hand-operated) machines.

Blank ampoules can be purchased from scientific glass supply houses and sealed with a small gas torch.

A Schlenk line may be used for sealing under inert atmospheres. There is procedure of purging nitrogen before and after filling liquid into ampoules in order to remove atmospheric air available inside the ampoules.

Opening
Ampoules are opened by scoring the neck and snapping the top off. In the "one point cut" (OPC) ampoules a dot above the neck identifies the correct thumb placement that aligns the thumb with a pre-made micro-score in the ampoule. If properly done, this last operation creates a clean break without any extra glass shards or slivers, but the liquid or solution may be filtered for greater assurance.

Contamination concerns
Glass-particle contamination is of ongoing concern, with patients who receive medication parenterally, such as intravenously under hospital care, at greater risk of receiving glass particulates when medication is aspirated. A 2016 study of 180 ampoules found 19,473 glass particles in aspirated fluids, with filtering only reducing the mean by 114 to 89 particles per ampoule. Glass particle contamination of an ampule occurred with all intravenous injection methods.

Other uses
Ampoules are common practice as containers of low-frequency RFID tags. These are used mainly for tagging animals for identification.

title: Ampoule


text:
User:Femto/elem section knownprop

! colspan="2" style="background:; color:" | Known properties

title: User:Femto/elem section knownprop


text:
Talk:Midge Ure

SNP
Midge Ure has announced he's backing the SNP in the Scottish elections this year (http://www2.snp.org/midge_ure_backs_alex_salmond_and_headlines_snp_concert). Can someone who knows how to add references put this in?

Novello Awards
"He twice received an Ivor Novello Award with Geldof for co-writing "Do They Know It's Christmas?" " That makes no sense at all. Did he receive TWO Novello Awards for ONE SONG? This needs to be clarified. It should be stated what year(s) he won the award or awards, and what those awards were for. Does he SHARE the award with Geldof? Does he share one and have one for himself? The article needs (1) the correct information (2) a citation for that information and (3) the information to be expressed clearly and succinctly. Jdubowsky (talk) 10:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * See http://www.ascap.org/eventsawards/awards/ivors/2005/ - "Do They Know It’s Christmas?" won the second award in 2005 for the Band Aid 20 recording. Lastcent (talk) 22:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Whoa dude! Check out that page! It lists nominees AND winners. The song only won once. Asterisk indicates winner. The rest are nominees. Going to fix / update the page now. Thanks for the link. Jdubowsky (talk) 07:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I am sensing there is some animosity between Geldof and Ure, based on some of the text in the main article. Can we please get sources on this, and what is the basis for the animosity? Is this an artistic, business, or personal difference? Is it public or verifiable enough to warrant inclusion in an article on a living person? If so, can we flesh it out and have sources and references? Thanks!Jdubowsky 09:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

That's the worst picture of Midge I've ever seen. He's a handsome guy, but here he looks like a used car salesman.128.147.38.10 05:01, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sources, please. Ultravox, Visage, and so on are not obscure bands. There are decades of clippings, reviews, as well as books published on these bands and the New Wave and New Romantic movements as well. Jdubowsky 03:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Honorary Degrees
wow. what did midge get those degrees for? how did you hear about this? could you please elaborate on the degrees... generally honorary doctorates are awarded for some kind of stated reason; it would be interesting and culturally significant to list the reasons here. was it for the charity work? The use of borrowed chords in pop music? Also, it would be super great if you could cite your sources or references. If you don't know how to cite them, just slam them right into the text of the article. Someone will figure out how to sort them out and make them follow wiki style. The sources can be websites or newspapers (please add the date of publication and page #) or a magazine, anything. It's really cool to have sources. Thanks for your work on the Midge Ure article! Jdubowsky 09:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Chronology
Somebody needs to straighten this out. Visage started before he joined Ultravox - and is, in fact, how he came into contact with them (via Billy Currie) to begin with. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.130.102.236 (talk • contribs).

More subtitles
Hi, I'm adding more subtitles and information (bands like Slik and Rich Kids). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.125.214 (talk) 05:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Minor Discography detail
A very minor point, but regarding the entry - "Intimate Moments: April 12th - 22nd 2002 - (2002, Environment Records, ENV03) - Live album. Released exclusively via the web site." - Midge also (personally) sold this album directly to the audience at the end of (later) gigs on this solo tour, which is how I acquired my copy. I imagine the same may apply to "Intimate Moments 2 . . .". 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction over Ultravox new recordings
"In late 2010 Ultravox started working (sic) their sixth album fronted by Ure."

yet later it also says: "Ultravox briefly reformed in 2009 and undertook a successful tour (as well as appearing at the Isle of Wight 2009 Festival) to celebrate, in their own words, the "anniversary of their classic line-up". There are, however, no plans for new recordings as Ure stated in a BBC interview in April 2009, "we are not trying to get our youth back, nor the hair that's fallen off already". I've removed the misleading contradictory statement as his official site confirms new material being recorded.

Rrose Selavy (talk) 23:48, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

New Romantic
"New Romantic" is not a style of music, it was a fashion movement that developed in the late 1970s in London nightclubs such as Billy's and The Blitz (both run by Steve Strange at one time). New Romantics were defined by make-up, eccentric hairstyles and classical 18th and 19th century clothing (the term comes from the Romantic period of European history). Many music acts adopted the look (even Bowie in his "Ashes to Ashes" video) but it isn't a style of music. Many people confuse it with synthpop. 88.104.30.107 (talk) 01:13, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

 * I realize that you're technically correct, but we also call things what they are commonly known as on Wikipedia, and even during the 80's the media was calling it New Romantic Music/Musicians/Songs/etc. There's a good likelihood that your edit will be reverted by another editor. If so, please don't take personal offense, as this is part of the 'democratic' process at Wikipedia. Discussing it here is good start.

 * Would you consider signing up for an account? It looks like your IP address keeps changing, making it difficult to communicate with you effectively. Cheers – MrX 01:23, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello again. It is such a widely held misbelief that the New Romantic movement was a style of music as a lot of people just think that if any act used synths and wore make-up then they were automatically new romantics. Boy George was actually one of the more famous new romantics in the early 1980s, but he was never an electro artist (Culture Club tended to steer towards "white reggae" when they first arrived). By the same token, not all artists who wear make-up and use synths are new romantics (Gary Numan for example). It's actually questionable as to whether Midge Ure was at all, although he was very involved in the Blitz scene which is how he came to form Visage with Steve Strange and Billy Currie. I can't say I've ever seen Ure in new romantic gear though. 88.104.30.107 (talk) 01:27, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * True. I remember these same debates 30+ years ago. For a real treat, compare and contrast new wave, punk, hardcore, synthpop, etc.
 * It's all good. – MrX 01:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ugghhhh....the term "new wave" just came to mean anything around that time. When I first heard it used in the mid 1970s, it was used to describe bands like The Jam. By the late 70s it was used to describe Blondie, Lene Lovich and Numan. It got even broader by the 80s and almost everything was thrown in, though it seemed to become more of an American term by then. Perhaps in its purest definition, "new wave" would probably just be an umbrella term for anything new from 1977 onwards since I can't think that The Jam and The Human League had much in common musically, even though they were both referred to as new wave. Remember when genres were just genres and not elaborate concepts? Simpler times. 88.104.30.107 (talk) 02:01, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. – MrX 02:28, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

 * http://www.allmusic.com/style/new-romantic-ma0000002748 describes it as a music genre. "The New Romantics were a peculiar subgenre of new wave." I also found this source and many more: http://www.pure80spop.co.uk/romantics.htm Please see here under Ultravox: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GJNXLSBlL7IC&pg=PT484&lpg=PT484&dq=new+romantic+music&source=bl&ots=R80yBauCoi&sig=KLDpiascrCBdNJ2JjeiKRwaYBtk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TURUUKvcAcbG0QXljYCwAQ&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=new%20romantic%20music&f=false Regards, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 09:05, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The AllMusic source also states it was defined by "....Wearing heavy makeup and dressed in stylish clothing". Midge Ure has never worn heavy make-up, even in 1980. The only band it directly namechecks in the article is Duran Duran. It also suggests artists such as Tears For Fears, OMD and Jimmy Somerville were New Romantics (by the albums in its list) which proves how self-contradictory and completely inaccurate that article is. When did you ever see any of these artists wear make-up? Again, this is sloppily throwing every British early 80s band that ever used synths into the pot and simply labelling them as New Romantics when they aren't. The other source you cite (Pure Pop 80s) specifies New Romanticism as a "description of a specific time rather than a sound or style" which again suggests it is not a musical genre. The book source you also linked to (All Music Guide To Electronica) is filled with inaccuracies, which suggests that isn't a valid source for anything either (it says "Sleepwalk" reached no.2, it says Quartet was released in 1983, states the band were called "U-Vox" in the 1990s, etc). All of this is factually inaccurate and sloppily written by someone who obviously knows little about the subject. Early Duran, Spandau, Boy George and Steve Strange are typical examples of New Romantics, which you can clearly see in their visual appearance at the time. It isn't a style of music. 88.110.249.61 (talk) 11:21, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of "Breathe"
The explanation for the deletion of Breathe_(Midge_Ure_album) reads kinda strange! Can someone check that out? Thx, 85.179.11.188 (talk) 11:47, 19 August 2013 (UTC)Arnd
 * I believe it was speedy-deleted as per WP:CSD. I don't see a problem in re-creating it. Breathe didn't chart in the UK (OCC gives only up to 75 positions) or US; but it peaked at #22 in Switzerland and #10 in Austria. It also included the single "Breathe" which had some success. --Sk4170 (talk) 13:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Genres
I've reduced the number of genres in the info box to the five he would principally be associated with. Five seems sufficient since even David Bowie only has five and I'm sure Midge would be the first to admit he hasn't covered more musical ground than David Bowie. Rodericksilly (talk) 02:02, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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1980 or 1981
This article gives the date for "Vienna" as 1980, but both the article on Ultravox and the article on Vienna (Ultravox song) give the date of this hit as 1981. Vorbee (talk) 19:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Midge Ure


text:
Talk:Welsh people

Harvard Refs
John Davies was cited in 10 different places and citations were a mix of bare Harvard format and duplicates of full references. As Harvard referencing is used on the page I have converted all 10 to Harvard refs with a single full citation (in further reading). This is much neater, and if the change sticks, I propose to clean up other duplicated refs in a similar manner.

However, it could elicit discussion because referencing style is one of those questions. I used Harvard refs rather than the Rp template to regularise these because the page already used Harvard referencing - just not in the appropriate template. If anyone has strong feelings that we should not be using Harvard referencing, please can we discuss now before I spend any more work on the page. Just this one change has taken me over an hour and a half, so I don't want to waste my time if its all going to get reverted. -- Sirfurboy (talk) 11:54, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

ETA: It occurs to me that editors may not reply to this if they are not sure what the difference between referencing systems is. To see a Harvard reference, one of the ones I improved, click reference [13] in the second paragraph of the article. See how it has "(Davies, 1994, p.54)" but if you click that you see the full citation for the book, which can be found at the bottom of the page (currently in "Further Reading", but that will probably move into "References" if we are all happy with Harvard refs). Clicking ref [12] in the paragraph above shows the more usual referencing style. One advantage of Harvard refs is that you can re-use refs whilst updating the page number and inserting quotes, and each re-use is quite easy. Re-using the other ref style needs the ref either to be repeated in full when referencing different page numbers, or else adding the Rp template to insert a page number beside the ref.

The disadvantage of Harvard refs is most people on Wikipedia are familiar with the other citation style, and that is what the tools put in for you.

This page was using Harvard style for the Davies quotes but not for just about everything else. So, despite my improving the Harvard referencing earlier, I am not sure I can recommend that we stick with Harvard. If we don't, I will convert all those Harvard refs to a single ref using the Rp template for page numbers and efn notes to insert the quotations. But it would be helpful to get some input as to which editors of this page would prefer.

Do we need an RfC? Or should I just pretend all the Davies quotes were not in Harvard format and go back to the more standard ref style? :) -- Sirfurboy (talk) 21:55, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

 * Whilst helping out with the Timeline of Welsh history I got used to both sfn and rp referencing. I'm guessing Harv is one of those. Anyhow, I don't think anyone's going to revert you for improving referencing, even if they are a mixture of styles.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  22:39, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tony. The sfn footnotes are Harvard references (the only minor difference is that sfn does not put in brackets around the reference). When you used sfn footnotes, were there mixed styles on the same page? Or was the whole page using sfn? -- Sirfurboy (talk) 22:50, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * No need to answer that. Just took a look at the page. Yes, it used both, and it solved the compatibility issue between the two by having a section after references called "sources". Looks like major sources then are in Harvard style and single use refs are left in the normal ref style. -- Sirfurboy (talk) 22:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

People born/grew up in Wales of non-Welsh descent are Welsh or not?
I've come across multiple individuals of Welsh ancestry who believe someone born in England to Welsh parents = Welsh, even if they grew up in England. And the same individuals believe that someone born in Wales to English parents = English, regardless of whether or not they grew up there. Would someone of non-Welsh ancestry, particularly first gen English "immigrants", consider themselves Welsh? Would they be allowed to consider themselves Welsh? We need more research on Welsh ethno-nationalism, particularly as it's often criticized as being racist towards non-Caucasian people who grew up in Wales. --2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:9894:82:6973:5EA4 (talk) 12:04, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTFORUM. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:24, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Great, but I specifically asked if there was any research into this and whether it should be mentioned. If anyone has any background knowledge on this it would help in locating relevant info. (Insufferable xenophobia and racism in England is not a get out of jail free card for the Celtic nations, you know)2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:69C7:E9EF:AB27:91F9 (talk) 13:43, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * But you asked unanswerable questions like "Would someone of non-Welsh ancestry, particularly first gen English "immigrants", consider themselves Welsh?" - it depends. "Would they be allowed to consider themselves Welsh?" - of course, it's up to them.  There may be some useful info and links at Cultural relationship between the Welsh and the English.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * This article is about the Welsh ethnic group not residents of Wales CicolasMoon (talk) 15:31, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I fail to see how people not descended from historical Brittonic populations, who speak only English, likely have names from languages which are not Welsh could in any sense be classed as 'Welsh' whatever they identify as and whatever others identify them as. However, interestingly, only around 58% of the people in Wales descend from Brittonic peoples. And I'm willing to bet good money many of the people in Wales claiming to be 'true Welsh' today ultimately trace their descent from the Danish-like source interpreted as largely representing the Anglo-Saxons (22%), the Norwegian Vikings (3%), or from further south in Europe, possibly related to French immigration during the Norman period (13%). Perhaps the Welsh identity is rather flimsy. Like all based on vapid concepts of 'blood'. Perhaps it's more of a geographic identity today outside of the actual Welsh-speaking parts of Wales. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.79.26 (talk) 08:39, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Fortunately, we base WP articles on what can be verified in sources, not on what random editors do or don't fail to see or are willing to gamble on the truth of. I'll go so far as to agree that ethnic identities can be confusing and frustrating and illogical; other than that, do you have a point relating to improving the article?  happy days, LindsayHello 10:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Generally speaking most ethnic identities have a far more firm founding than modern 'Welshness' does, although Welsh is definitely far from the most ridiculous 'ethnic group' I've seen on Wikipeda, and you could well argue the Welsh-speaking parts of Wales are Welsh, it's just that a lot of people claiming to be Welsh today in the British Isles are about as Welsh as 'German Americans', or in many cases even LESS so, which funnily enough Europeans like the Welsh often scoff at and mock mercilessly on a daily basis. I mean at this point Welsh people are as much an ethnic identity as Star Trek fans are. I guess if 'verifiable sources' start referring to Star Trek fans as an ethnic group one day, Wikipedia will follow suit... Well my point is we should really be referring to 'ethnic groups' like the Scottish and so on as 'categories of people who identify with one another', as they fit none of the traditional criteria for ethnic groups as they've been traditionally defined throughout history. There's a couple of sovereign states which historically (Soviet Union, Finland etc.) which have introduced official checklists for what an ethnic group needs to have in order to be legally classed as one, so you don't get ridiculous situations where every town and village declares itself a 'distinct people' and enjoys the privileges and protections of being an ethnic minority, the Welsh of 2021 would fail every single one of them. I think the term ethnic group is a valid concept, but I think stretching the meaning of an ethnic group to 'people who identify with one another' is a bit ridiculous and makes it seem like a very vapid and pointless exercise. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.79.26 (talk • contribs) 17:04, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

 * Can you provide more information on these “official checklists for what an ethnic group needs to have”? Sounds interesting. Adda'r Yw (talk) 07:12, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Sure here's one from the people we actually adopted the term 'ethnic group' (ethnos) from, the Greeks. They had a different term for strict biological ancestry which was 'genos' from which of course we get genetics: "The terms used to define Greekness have varied throughout history but were never limited or completely identified with membership to a Greek state.[136] Herodotus gave a famous account of what defined Greek (Hellenic) ethnic identity in his day, enumerating" - shared descent (ὅμαιμον – homaimon, "of the same blood"),[137] - shared language (ὁμόγλωσσον – homoglōsson, "speaking the same language")[138] - shared sanctuaries and sacrifices (θεῶν ἱδρύματά τε κοινὰ καὶ θυσίαι – theōn hidrumata te koina kai thusiai)[139] - shared customs (ἤθεα ὁμότροπα – ēthea homotropa, "customs of like fashion").

Here's another from a sociological study on Swedes in Finland: "According to a sociological study published in 1981, the Swedish-speaking Finns meet the four major criteria for a separate ethnic group: self-identification of ethnicity, language, social structure, and ancestry"

If you've ever studied ethnicity in the Soviet Union you'll be well aware that in order to be considered an ethnic group you had to fulfill certain criteria. Those were speaking your own language, having your own homeland and a few other criteria. Couples of different ethnicities were required to register their child's ethnicity by a certain age, picking from either the mother's or the father's.

That's how we don't get a free-for-all insane system as in the British Isles. After all, what's stopping me identifying as a distinct ethnic group? My family is its own tribe. We have our own idiolect. We are a genetically distinct population (albeit very similar to the people surrounding us). WE CONSIDER OURSELVES DIFFERENT AND YOU ARE OPPRESSING US IF YOU CLAIM WE ARE NOT. Bit ridiculous, is it not? Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.110.113.146 (talk) 09:03, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

 * I'm not quite sure what you're arguing for here. You jokingly claim that your family could be its own tribe/ethnic group by the very criteria (shared descent, shared language, self-identification) that you seem to approve of when it's applied to define ethnic groups in other countries. Adda'r Yw (talk) 20:51, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

 * The problem is people in Wales don't share a language. Or ancestry. They're just a group of people identifying with each other because they live in an arbitrary geographic area. Now if you want to say Welsh people are exclusively the ones who are fluent in Welsh and identify as such? I'm all on board, fair enough, even the ones descended from Normans or English or various other peoples who have migrated into the region known as Wales, because those people have been assimilated into Welshness due to their speaking the Welsh tongue.
 * However you can't then also claim all the people in Wales who can only speak English are also Welsh. Because they aren't. You've already established cryptogenetics don't matter when you're willing to accept people who are emphatically not of Celtic Briton ancestry as Welsh if they speak Welsh.
 * What's even more ridiculous is that a huge percentage of the people who can only speak English in Wales today not only don't speak Welsh, they don't descend from the Celtic Britons ancestrally either. So in what sense are they Welsh? The fact they identify as such? Already you've reduced Welshness to completely vapid self-identification. And it's no longer an ethnic identity or something of any substance it's just "people calling themselves Welsh".
 * When you just try to maximize the spread of an identity like this you end up reducing it to the point of vapidness as has already been done long ago in places like "Scot"land. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.42.40 (talk) 05:13, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

 * "You jokingly claim that your family could be its own tribe/ethnic group"
 * Why is that a "joke"? Why is it anymore of a "joke" than claiming the 3 million people inhabiting Wales today constitute a distinct ethnic group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.42.40 (talk) 05:15, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

 * The fact that you ended with "Bit ridiculous, is it not?" is what made me think you were joking. Adda'r Yw (talk) 17:05, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

 * I started this topic after a rather emotional episode with my mother after telling her I wouldn't be teaching anything specifically Welsh-related to my mixed race (Chinese and European). In hindsight it was pretty stupid imo, but like I said, I was somewhat emotional (largely to do with my mums enthusiasm for Welsh things...despite her Welsh father having abandoned her & her Anglo-Scottish mother before she was even BORN). So yadda yadda enough personal crap - this is an interesting topic that could do with being explored more. Intermarriage between Welsh and English people is common and it's definitely something that gets bought up in Anglo-Welsh families that reside in England, in addition to the historical borders along the marches have always been porous etc. Also to the other IP...the English aren't a homogenous group either, with it being a romanticized myth that the English are not descended from the 'indigenous' Britons. As someone who has "Taffy blood" I find this highly amusing. Am I not English? --2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:CC94:9924:C983:7701 (talk) 21:25, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as a homogeneous group, the closest you would get is some extremely isolated tribes in Africa and similar regions who haven't had contact with others for tens of thousands of years, or have had extremely little contact.
 * Despite this even those groups aren't 'pure' and at some point came about through a mixing event with their ancestors, even if they've remained in a sort of genetic stasis since that point (ultimately they haven't regardless of no mixing due to genetic drift and endogamy).
 * Purity spiralling however, is as old as time itself when it comes to modern (and ancient) ethnic groups. And no matter how much you intellectually browbeat these people and prove to them definitively that their ethnic group does not, and never did, share a common genetic ancestry they will simply refuse to believe it and continue claiming that theirs is an identity of 'shared blood' and that nobody can simply 'become [insert ethnic group]' through assimilation.
 * My advice to you is to stop worrying about it and simply go by whatever language (or languages) you speak.
 * At the end of the day we're all just humans with a fairly recent shared common ancestral origin (definitively proven by archaeogenetics which these knuckldruggers love to conveniently cherrypick from when it suits them and ignore when it shatters their worldview). Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.4081.170.32.206 (talk) 13:54, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Practically all Welsh speakers are bilingual. There are very many monoglot English speakers who consider themselves Welsh. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:16, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Well that's just a blatant lie, isn't it. By bilingual are you including people who know a phrase or two in Welsh? Because I know a phrase or two in Welsh, I'm not a Welsh-speaker. I couldn't carry a 10 second conversation in Welsh. I don't know the first thing about the language.

Only around 20% of the population of Wales considers themselves fluent in Welsh, and that's probably itself a fairly significant overestimate as it's self-reported. Actual Welsh-speaking ability in the modern "Welsh" population is like lower than 10%. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.32.206 (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The point I was making is the Welsh identity doesn't exist without the Welsh language, which most of the people claiming to be Welsh today don't, and can't, speak. Their claim to 'Welshness' in lieu of their ability to converse in Welsh is that they 'descend from the Celtic Britons', which as we can see from numerous genetic studies, a huge percentage of them don't.
 * Today, that percentage is considerably smaller due to the huge numbers of people who have migrated into Wales from outside it in recent decades.
 * Now, you see the problem. For these newcomers neither speak Welsh, nor descend from the Celtic Britons (along with the already considerable chunk of the 'Welsh' population who already were descended from other ethnic groups). So in what way are they Welsh? The answer is they're not Welsh, in any way. And in reality, neither are ANY of the English-speaking people in modern Wales who cannot speak Welsh.
 * It's merely a case that some of the English-speaking population of Wales can claim to be (at least partly) descended from the Celtic Britons. SOME of them. But funnily enough most Americans claim to be descended from various European ethnic groups and are routinely laughed at for doing so and mocked by the 'true Europeans' for claiming they are such.
 * You can imagine of course the surrealness of an average white American travelling to his 'ancestral homeland' of Bavaria and attempting to fit in there. For a start he wouldn't even be able to tell them he was of 'German blood' unless the locals could converse with him in his foreign language. That would only stand the chance of working with the percentage of Bavaria that was actually fluent in and could understand English, and not that many people in Bavaria are fluent in English, believe it or not.
 * And even once he had, he would be so culturally and mentally different to the average Bavarian it's laughable. Nobody would ever really truly consider him a Bavarian and his claim to German ancestry would be just that, a claim. Some might buy it, most likely won't, he'll never truly fit in without perfecting the German language (in a Bavarian way), and good luck to him with that.
 * That's basically your situation in Wales today. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.4081.170.32.206 (talk) 14:18, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If you think there is no Welsh identity without Welsh language you are very much mistaken. "Descended from Celtic Britons" is also barking up the wrong socio-cultural tree. Sorry. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:27, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Well what is it then? What is the Welsh identity. If it's not language, if it's not shared descent. What is it? Because I know it's not shared religion, so that's 3 out of 4 of the traditional criteria for an ethnic group you're missing. Shared customs is the last one which of course is the most vague and elusive of categories and could be applied to any arbitrary group of peoples really. What's your identity? That's the point I've been driving home here, you're not an ethnic group, you do not share the distinctive things ethnic groups require to be traditionally considered as such. So how are you anymore of an ethnic group than Star Trek fans? I'm all ears here, how are you an ethnic group? What is Welshness? Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.32.206 (talk) 18:47, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a page for discussing the Wikipedia article - not for wider discussions. Thanks.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:03, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That's a nice cope, and it might just fly if this wasn't an article ABOUT the concept of a 'Welsh people' and just what exactly that entails. If you're going to file this article under 'ethnic groups' and discuss the modern Welsh as if they are an ethnic group then you need to ascertain what exactly it is about the Welsh that qualifies them as an ethnic group and not just a 'group of people who identify with one another', you know like a football team's fans do and so on. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.170.32.206 (talk) 19:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Please read the definition of Ethnic group - "a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, culture, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area" - and also read WP:POINT. Thanks.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:53, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, so you are acknowledging that Star Trek fans, if they so choose to start doing so, could be deemed an ethnic group one day. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 81.170.32.206 (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, culture, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area"
 * Uhuh, and can you tell me which of these attributes the so-called Welsh of today share with one another, that they do NOT share with their English neighbors?
 * What about all the people in Wales actually descended from English people, in addition to only speaking English. How exactly is Tom Jones Welsh, 3/4 of his grandaparents are English, for example. Does Tom Jones speak Welsh, is he remotely fluent in it? The Christian Bale article is in a complete mess and we can't even label Christian Bale English because a bunch of warring editors are trying to claim him as Welsh even though he's stated several times, clearly, he is English and not Welsh.
 * Who's Welsh and who isn't, and why? Because the Welsh editors over at the Christian Bale article don't seem to care what he identifies as, they seem to want to tell him what he is, what they would like him to be. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.4081.170.32.206 (talk) 22:24, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In this edit today (which you did not sign) you said, "Well that's just a blatant lie, isn't it." Would you care to retract that baseless accusation? Or else provide some kind of evidence for the existence of Welsh speakers who cannot speak any English. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:09, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Collapsing again. If anyone wants to suggest a change to the wording of the article, make a proposal and discuss it here. If you just want to have a discussion about your interpretation of the term "ethnic group", take it elsewhere. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:35, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Yeah you keep collapsing and hiding and running off when you can't answer difficult questions. It's not my own interpretation of the term ethnic group, it's the original Greek concept of an ethnic group, you know the people we took the word and concept from (ethnos). They had a separate term for race and genetics too (genos).
 * It's also the term most sovereign states have used for legally recognizing ethnic groups and ethnic minorities (such as Finland and the USSR), as I mentioned earlier in the discussion, if you'd bothered to read it.
 * Your own ridiculous Wikipedia definition, as I said, is so impossibly vapid and broad that it could literally be applied to anyone, for example Star Trek fans, or a football team's followers or an individual family who decided they wanted to be recognized as a distinct ethnic minority within Wales and be afforded the legal protections, privileges and rights of being recognized as such a thing. Sock of indef blocked User:92.14.216.40 81.170.32.206 (talk) 23:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Like the OP I am also heavily Welsh by descent. Like the OP, my kids are also mixed race. I find it interesting how irredentist claims such as the "lost Welsh lands" are more prominent than say, encouraging or acknowledging people like myself as Welsh, despite no culture being passed down. Wales isn't Eastern Europe, or the German diaspora prior to WWII. This is an interesting convo but is largely limited to personal experiences and not really of any academic merit, imho. I am not in the slightest bit Welsh as I wasn't raised in the culture. OP, don't let your blood define you. --Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

What?
"Native to Wales" - also "includes people of Welsh descent". Pick one - I have a large amount of Welsh descent, but I am absolutely not Welsh. Nobody counts me as Welsh - certainly not census data. I was born and raised in England, so I am English. Nobody in Wales is "claiming" me (not that I care), so where is the lead claims coming from? SinoDevonian (talk) 22:10, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

 * This article is about ethnicity, not national identity 2A02:C7C:4C89:3C00:D905:5E65:B307:B93B (talk) 13:52, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Birth or conception of Wales
I have removed some quite longstanding text from the lead allegedly citing John Davies as saying Wales as a nation can be traced back to the 4th or 5th centuries. It is not altogether wrong per Davies, but it is a poor summary of his argument. It is a nuanced opinion, and I suggest that anyone wishing to restore this should first create a section in the main that discusses the nuances before creating a lead summary. What Davies says is (inter alia):

And he goes on to discuss the old north, the surviving literature etc. as being important to the idea of Wales, but he has already spoken of the above as being the mythology of the foundation of Wales. His point is that we find the ideas of a people here, the conception of an idea of Wales that has its birth later on. Our text {{tq|The historian John Davies argues that the origin of the "Welsh nation" can be traced to the late 4th and early 5th centuries, following the end of Roman rule in Britain)) is therefore, as I say, not wholly wrong, but certainly not a fair summation of his argument. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:02, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

"Welsh nation" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Welsh_nation&redirect=no Welsh nation] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 15:33, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Welsh people


text: User talk:69.196.33.88

title: User talk:69.196.33.88


text:
User talk:Pmdboi

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Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference
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title: User talk:Pmdboi


text:
User talk:HoldRyeCatcherEn

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions to the coolest online encyclopedia I know of =). I sure hope you stick around; we're always in need of more people to create new articles and improve the ones we already have.  You'll probably find it easiest to start with a tutorial of how the wikipedia works, and you can test stuff for yourself in the sandbox.  When you're contributing, you'll probably find the manual of style to be helpful, and you'll also want to remember a couple important guidelines.  First, write from a neutral point of view, second, be bold in editing pages, and third, use wikiquette.  Those are probably the most important ones, and you can take a look at some others at the policies and guidelines page. You might also be interested in how to write a great article and possibly adding some images to your articles.

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title: User talk:HoldRyeCatcherEn


text:
User talk:Flo98

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions to the coolest online encyclopedia I know of =). I sure hope you stick around; we're always in need of more people to create new articles and improve the ones we already have.  You'll probably find it easiest to start with a tutorial of how the wikipedia works, and you can test stuff for yourself in the sandbox.  When you're contributing, you'll probably find the manual of style to be helpful, and you'll also want to remember a couple important guidelines.  First, write from a neutral point of view, second, be bold in editing pages, and third, use wikiquette.  Those are probably the most important ones, and you can take a look at some others at the policies and guidelines page. You might also be interested in how to write a great article and possibly adding some images to your articles.

Be sure to get involved in the community – you can contact me at my talk page if you have any questions, and you can check out the village pump, where lots of wikipedians hang out and discuss things. If you're looking for something to do, check out the community portal. And whenever you ask a question or post something on a talk page, be sure to sign your name by typing ~~~~.

Again, welcome! It's great to have you. Happy editing! --Spangineer (háblame)  18:15, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:EmissionsofCO2.jpg
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Image Tagging Image:Nakedcowboy.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Nakedcowboy.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:04, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Flo98


text:
Talk:1840 Natchez tornado

Article's name
I changed the article name (tornado in lower case) IAW Naming conventions (events). --Rosiestep (talk) 22:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:1840 Natchez tornado


text:
Talk:Religion in Africa

Africa‘s religion
Girl 2601:280:C000:1D90:6008:F5CC:F766:221A (talk) 01:26, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Biased towards muslimz
No mention of king negus who converted to islam many more things the way it has been worded too what is this wikipedia history lol 82.20.80.153 (talk) 23:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Egypt and the rest of Africa?
This topic of religion in Africa needs to include Egyptian religion and also traditional religions in the southern part of Africa too. This article spends more time discussing western religions. 35.137.170.151 (talk) 18:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Table
The table under "Religious distribution" is a bit of a mess, and probably full of WP:SYNTH. I suspect percentages have been made into absolute numbers according to a population estimate from a different source, etc. So is the table rescuable? Should unsourced numbers be left out? Or should they be "forced" to agree? What if all numbers are sourced but don't add up? What about conflicting estimates?

I also think it might not be a good idea with the green and blue colors. On the one hand it communicates. On the other hand the methodology is a bit unclear and seems arbitrary (what are the cutoff percentages for color), and the whole thing gives the impression of a competition between Christianity and Islam. —St.Nerol (talk, contribs) 11:46, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Religion in Africa


text: Category:Organisations of the Singapore Government