text:
Talk:Grand Theft Auto III soundtrack

Production Details - or not?
To TBH: As of 2006, this article is the only quality source of information on production detail. I, for example, found the Moving Shadow 01.1 CD through here (original music from MSX). A lot of effort went into collecting and verifying bits and pieces. Surely, the page is a little cluttered at this moment. But wiping out half of the article is not the solution. We don't necessarily have to conform with other soundtrack articles. As far as I can tell, Grand Theft Auto III soundtrack is most informative one of the bunch. Matveims 04:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

i saw nothing wrong with TBHs edit. the producers and directors are way too over the top. plus it is more handy to have the gta soundtracks articles more uniform. --152.163.100.69 05:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

General
I remember that we had for every station one article, or? ProSieben
 * Yes, we did; but if you'll direct your attention to Talk:Grand Theft Auto: Vice City soundtrack, you will see my reasoning. Having a separate page for such a small article that is easily incorperated into one is pointless. This allows visitors to find information faster and encourages users to add to and edit its content more easily. Thanks for your understanding, mysekurity 21:53, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Important thing to say - there's no point in putting links around each of the bands, since most of them are made up. Look through the credits in the back of the manual and you will find that Craig Conner and Stuart Ross did most of the soundtrack. They're not real bands! Oh, and maybe the stations should be put into the right order? I don't have time at the moment, if anyone else wants to do it the order is: Head Radio, Double Cleff FM, K-Jah, Rise FM, Lips 106, Game Radio FM, MSX FM, Flashback 95.6 and finally Chatterbox. Those are the correct full names as well, I think. Rock on. Dragonfly888 22:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Aye aye cap'n! I'll get right on the reorganization of the stations, but would you mind filtering out which bands do, in fact, exist? I eventually want to get to creating an article for Da Shootaz, as I think their song (which, coincidentally, has the same title as the game franchise) is a good example of the culture surrounding the game. It also happens to be a good song. Let me know if you can do it, or if you want me to research these, and do whatever. either way, let me know. Thanks, mysekurity 22:35, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow, well done on your surprisingly prompt work! Okay: all the bands on Head are fake, I think. Craig Conner/Stuart Ross appear under every song. Double Cleff - don't know much about orchestras I'm afraid! But I think they are all well-known pieces, I doubt they wrote them specially. K-Jah - Scientist rules (and is quite real). Rise is a display piece for Generation Records, so the bands are real (but link to some confusing things - check them out!). Lips is entirely soundtrack, none of the bands are real. I am 100% sure that Da Shootaz are made up, 'cause Craig Conner wrote and produced their song. It was on the soundtrack for the first game as well, and you're quite right, it's a wicked song. The Game bands are real, they're signed to Violator and Game Records. The MSX bands are real, I think they're all on Moving Shadow Ltd. Flashback is all real, from the film Scarface. Chatterbox is just random. Hope this helps mate. I plan to add something to this page soon, perhaps a more clear explanation of the way they made the soundtrack. PS. Maybe we can get that cleanup header removed eventually!!! Dragonfly888 18:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thankya for the compliment, and thanks for the info. I've done a little research on MSX and others, and hopefully when my schedule allows (sometime this summer), all will be incorperated into the article. If you wouldn't mind writing that piece on how they all got organized, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm thinking of doing such a project on all GTA soundtracks, from the origional all the way to San Andreas. Thanks for your help, mysekurity 18:55, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Cool. I'll do a bit this week. I can do something easy tonight - I'll just copy the credits from the manual into the article! I suppose I'd better get on with it... Dragonfly888 20:11, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * About the coppying, is that ok in wikipedia? you might want to check the status of that. Anyways, if you copy the things from the manual, I'll do what I can to make sure they aren't complete copy vios. Good luck, man! -mysekurity 01:24, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mysekurity, there's no need for you to clean up the article for the moment. It turns out that copying out the manual kind of does it automatically. I'm also expanding the introductory paragraphs, this incorporates the organisation piece. It will be a different article by the end of the night (haven't finished yet!) so have a look at it tomorrow and tell me what you think, if you would. There's gonna be alot of links to fill!
 * AAAAH!!! Oh my god. I hate the internet. I just spent hours writing the entire article up, it was absolutely magnificent, and then as I pressed the save button it crashed. I even copied it before I pressed it because it's happened to me before but for some reason my computer hates me and didn't copy it. I'm doing this another time. I'm annoyed now. Damn!

 * That completely sucks. I'm sorry Dragonfly, and I can't tell you how many times that's happened to me before. What I usually do (if I remember) is to copy-and-paste it to a notepad document (.txt) and save it to my desktop (e.g. GTA3.txt) after each small update I make. This might be a pain, but it usually works. As for it not working in your case, again, that completely sucks, but that's why I save it, so even if it crashes (the whole system goes down), I still have a copy. Thanks for doing so much work, but next time, you might want to work in notepad, or save it a few times, just to be sure. Thanks again for all the work you've done, and hopefully it won't be too much trouble for you to redo the article. I have the PC version too, so if I have time sometime soon, I will try to help you out. If you want, you can send me a rough draft of the article to my e-mail (look at my "contact me" section). Thanks so much, mysekurity 01:24, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

default format
I think the page looks a little too cluttered currently. Perhaps the songs could be one one bullet point, then a line below (intented--starts with a :), text about the song could be in parentheses. Look at this example:

*Artist Name - Song Name
 * Information about song (producer, etc.

makes

 * Artist Name - Song Name
 * Information about song (producer, etc.

I think the page can be re-worked a little. I'll do some work this coming week after finals are over

Any thoughts?

 * Well, the reason I set it out that way was so the page wasn't a direct lift from the manual - the changes you are proposing would really take it back to the layout of the manual. However, I do agree with you that your method would look a lot tidier. I'm not fussed either way, but if you decide to go ahead with it, that would be a great help. Rock on. Dragonfly888 17:43, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Understandably so, and with your blessing, I shall remake the article, one section at a time. Thanks so much for your help, mysekurity 18:30, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Very good work! Especially the economy of space you provided by having 'written by Craig Conner unless otherwise noted' - that's a great idea. But you linked the fake bands!!! It's just a silly mistake, I'll quickly change that. Hope you understand my logic that a bunch of fictitious bands don't deserve pages to themselves. Maybe if anything interesting is found out about them (eg who they are parodying) we can add it below the track listings, but I don't think they should have their own pages. Dragonfly888 16:15, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry, thanks for the compliment, and good point. Aren't Da Shootaz a real group? One more thing tho, where did you get all the us in Double Cleff from? I'm looking at my manual, and dont see any us…maybe a couple es, but no us. Or are they different because you have an English version?? - mysekurity 20:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Da Shootaz aren't real, I don't think. I've done countless web searches for them but they don't seem to exist anywhere except on GTA soundtracks, and besides, the song is written and produced by Craig Conner, so... And good point about the u's - basically, I don't know much about orchestras, but I do know that 'u' means 'under' as in 'conducted by'. I now realise that not many people would know that (it's only luck that I do!) so I will get onto changing the 'u's into 'conducted by'. Dragonfly888 18:49, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the searches on da shootaz, and its too bad they aren't real, I kinda liked that song. What I'm more concerned about, however, is that maybe there's a difference in our manuals? I looked through mine, and it said "[song] e [something else]". I'm guessing it's different in the U.K.? I'll do some research when I get back (I'm on vacation for the next week or so), and I'll update it then, as well as reorg this talk page (it's getting kind of unruly). Thanks much for all the help, mysekurity 19:18, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, that song kicks ass. And don't worry, there isn't a difference in our manuals, I was just trying to be clever and save space by putting 'u' instead of 'conducted by'. I don't know what all the 'e's are about, or really anything else about orchestras. Maybe there's something about it on the Orchestra article? I'll have a look at it. And yeah, this talk page needs reorganising, it's almost as big as the main article. Dragonfly888 19:31, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

PS. Just read through the old stuff on the talk page and your idea of a piece about how 'Da Shootaz' song reflects the atmosphere of the game is a really good idea. Maybe it would look good underneath or above the track listing for Lips?

Michael Hunt
Do you believe that Michael Hunt, the DJ of Head Radio is based on the joke from Porky's and other places? (Michael Hunt >> Mike Hunt >> My Cunt)?? Or do I just have a dirty mind? (I'm not ruling out the latter). Is there something perhaps referenced for the reason this name was chosen? Any thoughts would be helpful. -mysekurity 02:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * You may indeed have a dirty mind, but judging by the fact that the makers of the GTA games seem to think just as dirty, you're probably right. Staying with Head Radio, a more obvious one (that I didn't understand for ages - then I said it out loud and got it) is Dil-don't. Dil-do perhaps? Dragonfly888 20:39, 12 July 2005 (UTC) PS. Have you notived that there isn't a clear link on the main game page to this one anymore? It just says 'soundtrack' and nobody would be able to guess that it led to a specific page about the game's soundtrack.

Disambiguation (Rush)
In trying to disambiguate the links to Rush in Game Radio FM I've run into a dead-end. I can't find ANY information on the apparent rap/hip-hop artist "Rush" except that it might be Russell Simmons.

It certainly is not the Canadian power trio.

Anybody have a clue?

Al 15:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Ugh. It looks like every couple of weeks somebody tries to disambiguate Rush on the GTA3 soundtrack as being the guys from Canada. Let me assure you that this is not so. I'm not "up" on the hip-hop scene, so I don't know who this other "Rush" guy is, but I know for certain that it's not Rush (band). Read the talk page, folks. Al 17:53, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

red links everywhere!!!
why is almost everyname wikilinked? it's not as if everybody is notable or warrants an article. let's just link people worth a mention to imdb until an article can be created. --Phil 06:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Liberty City Stories Radio logos
For the few radio stations which have the radio stations logo next to the, they are all the logos from Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories. Some of the logos are different than the logo that was in Liberty City Stories so we should put up the GTA3 logos instead. Ill go hunting for the logo pictures.

Generic
It is generally agreed that the soundtrack for GTAIII sounds very generic and cheap, as if they didn't have much money to spend on "real" artists. The main novelty to it was exactly that, having radio stations you could flick to each with a different theme. The fact that it is famous for the funny DJ lines and not the music itself is a testament to this fact. Thank you JayKeaton 09:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Commercials: Jeff Berlin (disambiguation)
The Jeff Berlin mentioned as a talent in the Commercials section is a voiceover and production artist, formerly with WXKS-FM in Boston, and not the bass guitar player the article seems to link him to. We may want to either clear that link, or create a new page and a disambiguation.

He also is the main image voice for Head Radio in the game, if that's relevant to anyone.

Out of respect for the article and what you all have done with it, and because I haven't registered, I won't edit it myself.

 * Please feel free to! You know a lot more about Jeff Berlin than me, which means you're more qualified than me to write about him! Hey, it's a wiki, have fun! Dragonfly888 12:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Someone has detracted from the article quality. With things like "Reed F**cker" instead of "Reed Tucker". It has to be fixed. 213.39.157.197 15:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

More Vandalism???
Are the links in the miscellaneous section spurious? (No, the ones OTHER than Rockstar Games.) There's a link to the Allegro Corporation and Mellowvision neither of which appear to have ANYTHING to do with Rockstar, GTA, etc... Aragond 09:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

"nonexistent" frequency
I've taken out the reference with Flashback's 95.6FM being a "nonexistent" broadcast frequency, given that a quick bit of googling reveals dozens of stations using the frequency. 81.104.170.167 00:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Links
Half the band links end up sending you to the wrong thing (I assume because most of the bands/groups are fairly small time). For example, the Shiver link send you to the actual physical act of shivering. This ought to be corrected. Chewbacca1010 12:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Australian-American War
I think this is worth mentioning Wikifried 16:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Missing track?
I have ripped the music off my GTA III DVD onto my PC and was listening to Lips Radio, and couldn't hear "Marydancin - Wash Him Off", has anyone else noticed this? I have the UK version.

MSX Track Listing
The track listing for MSX wasn't quite right, so I've fixed it up (I think). All I have to go on is the mix CD that MSX is based on (Moving Shadow 01.1). Since it's a mix, it's sometimes hard to tell where one track ends and the next begins. Anyway, it appears that MSX was just made by splicing together (not mixing) a few sections from 01.1. I'm pretty certain the current track listing is the correct one, someone else with 01.1 (or the original tracks) might want to verify though. Krooga 05:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * To be honest, i've been wondering about the MSX tracklisting for a while. It is listed in my copy of the game manual as follows:

MIX A * Omni Trio - First Contact * Aquasky - Spectre * Rascal and Klone - Winner Takes All MIX B * TJ Rizing - Agent 007 * Calyx - Quagmire * Rascal and Klone - Get Wild * Ryme Tyme - Judgement Day

 * Mix A is tracks 1-3 on 01.1; Mix B is tracks 5-8 and the other three tracks listed here—"T Minus", "Spasm" and "Monolith"—are tracks 11-13. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps those last three tracks (Mix C?) were dropped from the European version, with maybe "Agent 007" added to Mix B (this track was originally omitted from the article).  Can anyone shed some light on this?  Dbam  Talk/Contributions 22:58, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 19:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Flashbackgta.gif
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Other ways of listening the soundtrack
Please, don't say and remark that the only way of listening the soundtrack is by hijacking a vehicle and listening the radio. You can also insert the game's DVD on the PC and then getting to the audio folder. There you'll find a bunch of .wav 's, most of them are for ambient sounds. But 9 of them (the biggest) are from the radio stations, which are CLASS, MSX, FLASH, CHAT, LIPS, GAME, HEAD, KJAH and RISE. This can be also done with the PC version by getting to the instalation folder (commonly C:\Program Files\Rockstar Games\GTAII\) ans searching the folder "audio". Hell, you can even add them to your iTunes library and add them to an iPod. I don't know if it is legal, but I legally own Vice City's and San Andreas' sountracks, so I would want an original CD of this one. Wikifan21century (talk) 03:06, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed you can rip the game's audio, but the article is concerned with the in-game presentation of the soundtrack.  Dbam  Talk/Contributions 16:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Head Radio not listed in Love Media website
If you go to the Love Media website and clicked the "Radio" tab, you will see that Head Radio isn't listed there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.148.188 (talk) 00:27, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Missing Radio Station Logos

 * The logos that belonged to the radio stations were removed a while ago for unknown reasons. Could they be brought back to the GTA 3 Soundtrack page? These logos can be found on the GTA Wiki. The other GTA Soundtrack pages need their logos aswell! --24.147.1.197 (talk) 20:43, 4 April 2014 (UTC)Jacob Chesley

title: Talk:Grand Theft Auto III soundtrack


text:
John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge

The John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge (previously called the Shelby Street Bridge or Shelby Avenue Bridge) is a truss bridge that spans the Cumberland River in Nashville, Tennessee, United States. The bridge spans 3,150 ft and is one of the longest pedestrian bridges in the world.

Early history
The John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge was originally known as the Sparkman Street Bridge and was built one block south of Broadway, connecting Sparkman Street and Shelby Avenue. The bridge was constructed at a cost of about $475,000. It opened July 5, 1909. A virtually identical bridge called the Jefferson Street Bridge was built at the same time. The Jefferson Street Bridge was opened a year after the Sparkman Street Bridge. The substructures of the bridges were light grey concrete, and the superstructures were made of steel that had been painted black.

The bridge was the first in North America to have concrete arched trusses.

The bridge was designed and construction was supervised by Howard M. Jones, the chief office engineer of the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis Railway. The original architectural drawings as approved by Jones are archived at the Metro Transportation Offices.

Repair work
After twenty-five years of use, it became apparent that there was something wrong with the concrete on the Sparkman Street Bridge. The worn surfaces of the concrete were chipped away between 1927 and 1930 and replaced with gunite.

Thirty years later, repair work had to be done again. The Standard Engineering Company of Albany, New York was hired to repair the weathered bridge. They subcontracted the steel work to the Nashville Bridge Company. During this repair time, the Jefferson Street Bridge was also repaired.

National Register of Historic Places
In 1998 the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge was admitted to the National Register of Historic Places, due mainly to the unique truss design. Both the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge and the Jefferson Street Bridge were considered. The Jefferson Street Bridge was rejected because of its similarity to the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge and the fact that the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge was in better condition. The Jefferson Street Bridge was demolished in 1990 to make way for a new bridge that could handle more traffic.

Closure and reopening
State inspectors declared the bridge to be in "poor" condition in 1992, and the bridge was closed to vehicular traffic in 1998. The bridge was originally slated for demolition. However, due to aesthetic, architectural, and historical considerations, it was decided that it should be converted to a pedestrian bridge rather than be demolished. The success of the Walnut Street Bridge as a part of Chattanooga's urban renewal efforts was a major consideration in keeping the bridge. The bridge was refurbished and includes an elevator, ramps, and stairways. The bridge has a center lane that is 15 ft across to accommodate bicycles. Originally it was thought that a trolley might use the center lane, but that idea was abandoned in favor of a bicycle lane. On each side of the bicycle lane are 10 ft elevated boardwalk-style sidewalks. The bridge includes four scenic pedestrian overlooks that, in the metal of the railing, have artistic renderings of the history of life on the Cumberland River. The bridge is dramatically lit at night.

The refurbished bridge is part of the Metro Nashville Greenway system, which is administered by the Parks Department. The eastern terminus includes a pedestrian plaza with special landscaping and is very close to Nissan Stadium. The western terminus comes out facing the Schermerhorn Symphony Center and is very close to the Country Music Hall of Fame, Music City Center, and Bridgestone Arena. The refurbishment of the bridge cost in excess of $15 million and was done under the supervision and planning of the Tennessee Department of Transportation. A new bridge called the Gateway Bridge, now known as the Korean War Veterans Memorial Bridge, was built to handle the vehicle traffic that used to travel over the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge.

Music videos
Due to the bridge's iconic status as a Nashville landmark, it is often seen in country music videos. The video for "Save a Horse (Ride a Cowboy)", the first hit single by Big & Rich, was shot entirely on the Shelby Street Bridge. The video for Emerson Drive's 2007 hit single "Moments" was also filmed on and under the bridge. Several scenes from the 2011 video for "Together You and I" by Dolly Parton, and the 2015 video for Crash and Burn by Thomas Rhett were filmed on the bridge. Most recently Aaron Cole’s music video “Yours to Use” was filmed on the bridge at night.

Renaming
In April 2014, the bridge was renamed the John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge in honor of journalist and civil rights advocate John Seigenthaler. While reporting for The Tennessean in the 1950s, Seigenthaler once physically prevented a suicidal man from jumping off the bridge. Ironically, John Seigenthaler is quoted to have said (to his Father Ryan High School classmates), "The Shelby Street Bridge is for the rats to go back home to East Nashville."

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: John Seigenthaler Pedestrian Bridge


text:
Myrmecophilus

Myrmecophilus or ant crickets, is a genus of orthopteran insects in the family Myrmecophilidae. This genus contains the majority of myrmecophilous (ant-loving) species in this small, obscure family.

Species
With a worldwide distribution, species include:
 * M. acervorum (Panzer, 1799)
 * M. aequispina Chopard, 1923
 * M. americanus Saussure, 1877
 * M. arboreus Maeyama & Terayama, 1994
 * M. australis Tepper, 1896
 * M. baronii Baccetti, 1966
 * M. brevipalpis Chopard, 1948
 * M. bifasciatus Fischer von Waldheim, 1846
 * M. bituberculatus Ingrisch, 2001
 * M. chocolatinus Gorochov, 1992
 * M. concolor Chopard, 1928
 * M. cottami Chopard, 1922
 * M. crenatus Gorochov, 1986
 * M. denticaudus Bei-Bienko, 1967
 * M. dubius Saussure, 1877
 * M. escherichi Schimmer, 1911
 * M. formosanus Shiraki, 1930
 * M. gigas Ichikawa, 2001
 * M. gracilipes Chopard, 1924
 * M. haeckeli Fernando, 1962
 * M. hebardi Mann, 1920
 * M. hirticaudus Fischer von Waldheim, 1846
 * M. horii Maruyama, 2004
 * M. inaequalis Ingrisch, 2010
 * M. ishikawai Maruyama, 2004
 * M. keyi Baccetti, 1975
 * M. kinomurai Maruyama, 2004
 * M. kubotai Maruyama, 2004
 * M. leei Kistner & Chong, 2007
 * M. longitarsis Chopard, 1925
 * M. manni Schimmer, 1911
 * M. mauritanicus (H. Lucas, 1849)
 * M. mayaealberti Hugel & Matyot, 2006
 * M. mjobergi Chopard, 1925
 * M. myrmecophilus (Savi, 1819)
 * M. nigricornis Chopard, 1963
 * M. nebrascensis Lugger, 1898
 * M. nonveilleri Ingrisch & Pavicévić, 2008
 * M. ochraceus Fischer, 1853
 * M. oculatus Miram, 1930
 * M. oregonensis Bruner, 1884
 * M. orientalis Stalling, 2010
 * M. pallidithorax Chopard, 1930
 * M. parachilnus (Otte & Alexander, 1983)
 * M. pergandei Bruner, 1884
 * M. polyrhachi Ingrisch, 1987
 * M. quadrispina Perkins, 1899
 * M. sanctaehelenae Chopard, 1970
 * M. sapporensis Matsumura, 1904
 * M. seychellensis Gorochov, 1994
 * M. sinicus Bei-Bienko, 1956
 * M. surcoufi Chopard, 1919
 * M. teranishii Teranishi, 1914
 * M. termitophilus Maran, 1959
 * M. testaceus Chopard, 1925
 * M. tetramorii Ichikawa, 2001
 * M. tindalei Otte & Alexander, 1983
 * M. wahrmani Chopard, 1963
 * M. zorae Karaman, 1963

title: Myrmecophilus


text:
Cleophon (politician)

Cleophon (Greek: Kλεoφῶν, Kleophōn; died 405 BC) was an Athenian politician and demagogue, who was very influential during the Peloponnesian War. He was a staunch democrat and vehement opponent of the oligarchs; his sparring with Critias rated a mention in Aristotle's Rhetoric.

On three separate occasions, he inspired the citizens of Athens to reject the Spartans' attempts to make peace; once after the Athenian victory at Cyzicus (410 BC), again after the Athenian victory at Arginusae (406 BC), and once again after the decisive Spartan naval victory at Aegospotami (405 BC). During Lysander's ensuing siege, the tide of opinion turned against the democrats, and the oligarchs used the opportunity to rid themselves of their rival. One of their members, Satyrus, brought a charge against Cleophon of neglect of military duty, leading to his arrest. Since it was by no means certain that Cleophon could be convicted of this, the commissioner for the publication of the Athenian laws, Nicomachus, was persuaded by bribery or partisanship to exhibit a "law" allowing the oligarch-dominated Boule to oversee Cleophon's trial by lot-chosen jury. The oligarchs used this assessorship (συνδικάζειν) over the jurors to ensure the conviction of Cleophon and his death sentence.

Cleophon was made the object of satire by the comic poet Plato in an eponymous play (now lost), and by Aristophanes in The Frogs. Both made fun of Cleophon's Thracian origins and accent: since his father is known to have been an Athenian citizen, his mother is conjectured to have been Thracian and Plato of his low Athenian birth (Andocides says that Cleophon was a harp-maker by trade, and Aelian comments on the poverty of his early life).

title: Cleophon (politician)


text:
Talk:Reversible computing

Too technical?
I am disputing the "too technical" marker that someone put on this page earlier. Some subjects are simply technical in nature. In my opinion, it is far, far better for an article to be technical and correct, rather than being non-technical but too vague, incorrect or misleading.

In my opinion, if a Wikipedia reader feels that a particular article is too technical or difficult to understand, the most constructive thing that they could do is take the time to learn about the subject in depth themselves, and then try their best to find a new way to explain it that is somehow "less technical" while still remaining accurate and of high quality.

For now, I am removing the marker, although I will take it under advisement and will endeavor to find ways to make the article more accessible to readers in the future.

--Mpfrank 6/14/05

 * It is too technical. Provide an example of a digital circuit that represents reversible computing. E.g. a two bit adder. Mre5765 06:29, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It is NOT too technical. Landauer's principle (which is the main idea in the article as it is written) is one of those fascinating discoveries that came well before its time, and therefore lay more or less forgotten for many years.  It really is a simple application of the second law of thermodynamics to the field of computer science.  Only recently, after many decades of steady exponential increase in the amount of computation that can be performed with a given amount of heat generated, are we even getting close to this limit.  You cannot get around this limit by refrigerating the processor, because although the processor may produce less heat per clock cycle at a lower temperature, (since it can then be run at a lower voltage :-), the refrigeration cycle(s) must then reject a proportionately greater amount of heat to the environment.  That's kind of long-winded, and I'm sure it's actually better explained in the article, but all this theory is important if you want to overclock your processor to 10 GHz.  Perhaps it could be somewhat better organized and retitled, but on the whole it's a good interesting article. 130.94.162.64 23:55, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Explaining all the gory details of specific circuits would make the article too technical for general readers, IMHO. If someone wants more detail, there are plenty of reversible circuits already described in the adiabatic circuits literature.  For example, Saed Younis' 1994 MIT Ph.D. thesis (Asymptotically Zero Energy Computing Using Split-Level Charge Recovery Logic) contains a number of examples including adder and multiplier circuits. --Mpfrank 1/12/06

Technical or not so technical this first sentence does not make much sense: "The term reversible computing refers to any computational process that is (at least to some close approximation) reversible, i.e., time-invertible, meaning that a time-reversed version of the process could exist within the same general dynamical framework as the original process."

First of all the term is dynamic, I don't know what dynamic-al means. Secondly to substitute revert with invert for an explanation is not sufficient. Does it mean if run backwards through time it would work. And whats dynamic(al) framework? By itself it means absolutely nothing if not defined within a, well, certain framework. Does it mean that the same general conditions and potentialities exist, as in an experiment?

 * Points taken. "Invertibility" is a standard concept in mathematics; here it refers to the invertibility of the transition function that takes old states to new ones.  Essentially it means that the transition function is one-to-one.  In any case, I added a link to the "invertible function" page to help clarify this.  As for "dynamical", as is usual with the "-al" suffix in English, it means "of or relating to" dynamics, and by "the same general dynamical framework" I meant the same general type of dynamical system (whether it's physical or mathematical, discrete or continuous), and added a link to the "Dynamical system" page.  Hopefully these links will be helpful.  I will try to compose a more accessible introductory paragraph that is still correct.  --Mpfrank 4/25/06

I didn't go on to read the rest of the article, because if its of the same standards there's not much point, please whoever can edit this to be more readable.

Whoever said this article is too technical is half correct. The problem isn't that it's too technical, it's that no alternative simpler analogy or explanation is given. And yes, everything can be analogized, it's the basis of understanding. Here's an article that explains reversible computing simply: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/research/revcomp/what.html. The first explanation to appear in the Wikipedia article should look like that explanation.--68.46.187.78 (talk) 03:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Agreed, the first paragraph or 3 should be for laypersons. The rest of the article can then be as technical as necessary to explain the principal correctly.  --Zojj (T,C) 03:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Too many links...
Someone started going through the article linking common words like "time" and "exist" to their Wikipedia entries. This sort of thing can get ridiculous, and is against the Wikipedia guidelines. If the user really doesn't know what "time" means, let him search it himself! IMHO, links should be reserved for specific technical terms that relate to the original article and that the reader might plausibly want to learn more about. So, I removed some of the extra links. --Mpfrank 6/14/05

Removed reference to UF group
I removed the reference to the UF reversible computing group which someone had added, since it violated Wikipedia guidelines not to use the site for promotional purposes. Anyway, I was the leader of the UF group, and (contrary to some misleading reports by the UF press office) we didn't design any new reversible CPUs there. However, I did participate in the design of several reversible processors (Tick, FlatTop, and Pendulum) earlier during my Ph.D. work at MIT; most of this work took place during the period 1996-1999. --Mpfrank

Entropy

 * Although in practice no physical process can be exactly physically reversible or isentropic

Ought this be "... no macroscopic physical process ..." ?

 * Macro/micro is not the relevant distinction here. Here, I mean that the process cannot be reversible as far as our knowledge of the state of the system is concerned.  Although macroscopic processes are particularly prone to irreversibility, no microscopic process can be perfectly reversible for all practical purposes either, from the perspective of an observer who doesn't precisely know the laws of physics, by which I mean, e.g., knowing the values of all of the coupling constants and the masses of the fundamental particles to infinitely many decimal places.  If you don't know the exact laws of physics, than your description of the state of any system (macro or micro) will necessarily become more uncertain over time, unless the system is already in a stationary state such as a thermal equilibrium state or a quantum ground state, in which case it seems over-generous to refer to its evolution as a "process." --Mpfrank 6/14/05

It's all tosh, and anyone with a clue about entropy and physics/electronics will understand that much of what has been written on "Reversible Computing" is about as reliable as BBC Panorama's report on the spaghetti harvest.

Go right back to basics. When you accelerate (or decelerate) a charge, you cause electromagnetic energy to be radiated. But you always need to accelerate (and/or decelerate) a charge to change a logic 0 to a logic 1 or vice versa. The energy radiated cannot be recovered except in certain very special cases (such as a tuned circuit formed by a capacitor and an inductor, or various equivalents, elements not useful in a general computing sense, and even there the recovery ratio is never 100% (go look up "Q" in the context of electronic tuned circuits)). Thus entropy is increased by meaningful operational circuit, never mind a computational circuit, and that is not reversible on any meaningful scale.

Also, what on earth have backup/restore and "undo" got to do with "reversible computing" meaning thermondynamically reversible? It's a bit like claiming that because a vehicle has a reverse gear and can therefore go back to where it was previously, it is therefore potentially reversible in the entropy-related sense, which surely is clearly rubbish?

"Undo"??
I'm reinforcing the point above regarding the Practical logical reversibility section, which at the very least needs an initial sentence explaining that the reversibility of an "undo" command is not the same sort of reversibility in the discipline of thermodynamics. The main thrust of this article is entropy. This section, however, is in no way about the limits and/or reduction of accrued entropy as it applies to computation. Any undo function as discussed in this section increases the statistical disorder of the system by increasing W (the number of ways the bits may be arranged to achieve the energy of the system) and heat is wasted to facilitate this additional work. Undo functions - meta or not - do nothing to mitigate entropy. From the perspective of entropy undoing something is the same as doing something computationally. Entropy is increased similarly in either case. I question this section's relevance to this article.Wolfworks (talk) 06:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge with Landauer's principle?
I oppose the proposed merge. While Landauer's principle could be a section of a general 'physics of computing' article, its importance to reversible computing doesn't really make it a subtopic any moreso than the Church-Turing thesis or the Third Law of Thermodynamics. Discussion of the subject does take up the bulk of the article, but that really speaks more to the lack of any further useful information provided.--207.245.10.241 (talk) 00:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Another oppose. The (von Neumann–)Landauer bound clearly is not a subtopic of reversible computing. False vacuum (talk) 07:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Yet another oppose. They are separate, although related topics. --Robin (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Another oppose here. The physical implications of Landauer principle are not limited to reversible computing. --Aadagger (talk) 09:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed new paragraph
I'm removing this, recently contributed by : Logical information is stored as the physical state of the system. Changing the state of a physical system requires force, although this energy is not necessarily lost. The energy of the system can be conserved, but for non-reversible functions this energy is simply discarded by dissipating the energy into the environment. This can be easily imagined with a simple TTL "and" gate that is recieving up to two high inputs but only contributing up to one to the system. The transistors in the chip dump this energy through electrical resistance. But if this energy is not discarded, but rather captured, either in memory or by the effect of reversible logic, then the information is still available and the energy is still "in the system." It seems to me that there are a number of problems here -- eg "Changing the state of a physical system requires force, although this energy is not necessarily lost". Also the example of the TTL gate is misguided. It doesn't help to think about signals; rather, what we're dealing with here is operations on memory, storing back into that memory. And it is certainly not that "energy" from a "high input" is being dumped into the system. Rather, it is that you have to expend energy if you want to push through an irreversible change. So setting one bit A equal to another bit B, regardless of the previous state of B is more of a classic case.

Can I suggest that if more physical examples are desired, these be taken from reliable sources, not original research. Jheald (talk) 09:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Any chance we can get this article in English?
...because this is all gibberish to the layperson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.110.59.236 (talk) 04:14, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, I have to admit that I am a layperson, or at least my background is in computer science and not physics. I however do believe that reversible computing is an important topic that should be getting more "airtime" outside of a specific subgroup of the physics community. As indicated by Michael P. Frank at the 2005  ACM Computing Frontiers Conference (http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~mpf/CF05/talks/Frank.ppt) a certain amount of PR is required and that means making the topic accessible to interested laypersons.

The fact that a lot of the commentary on this article indicates that it is too technical should be seen as an indication that there are people outside of the physics community that is actually interested in the topic!

My suggestion would be to "tone" down the introductory paragraph to be a general introduction to the topic for laypersons, rather than a theoretically correct and concise description of what reversible computing is. I would also suggest adding several new sections that deal with the topic from a generalists point of view in terms of practical application.

In my experience, the first question that usually comes up when you first tell people about reversible computing is whether that means that we can unplug a computer and it will still do useful work. I do not think that is an unreasonable question! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.244.55.151 (talk) 18:04, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Turing-Complete?
Is reversible computation fundamentally different from non-reversible computation in terms of computability or complexity? E.g. are there Turing-complete versions of reversible computation? 74.125.59.1 (talk) 20:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Reversible Computing
The section: "For computational processes that are nondeterministic (in the sense of being probabilistic or random), the relation between old and new states is not a single-valued function, and the requirement needed to obtain physical reversibility becomes a slightly weaker condition, namely that the size of a given ensemble of possible initial computational states does not decrease, on average, as the computation proceeds forwards." Shouldn't this conclude; "...possible initial computational states does not increase, on average, as the computation proceeds forwards."? User:Wozama 11:20, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

logic gates consume input
The article mentions "A simplified model of such circuits is one in which inputs are consumed (however, note that real logic gates as implemented e.g. in CMOS do not do this).". I suspect this might be a statement about how CMOS inputs are high-impedance, and so therefore "input is consumed" corresponds to some equivalent of low-impedance, and perhaps you cannot connect multiple inputs to a single output. If this interpretation is correct, I can attempt to succinctly explain the concept of "consumption".Intellec7 (talk) 11:47, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

 * The section title is 'Logical reversibility'. The parenthesis is almost misleading, it is easier to read without it being there? "Consume" here means just that the input goes into the gate, nothing more. It consumes the input in the same way that a function f(x)=x+2 consumes 5, if you write f(5)=5+2=7. The input 5 is "consumed" and out comes 7. Logical and physical reversibility are two different things. Friction, resistance, decoherence, is not accounted for when viewing it logically. From a logical viewpoint, the implementation does not matter and could be anything, CMOS or even some purely mathematical structure from Conway's Game of Life that implements a logic gate. It is being explained in the section, the sentence after the one you quoted is, "In this modeling framework, an inverter (NOT) gate is reversible because it can be undone." et.c. Maybe that could be explained better though. Or maybe at least with more sources · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 19:18, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I can't make sense of the statement about a "real" logic gate, such as those implemented with CMOS technology, and what it does not do.
 * I'm also unclear on what "A simplified model of such circuits is one in which inputs are consumed." means. You offer a translation: "A simplified model of such circuits is one in which inputs go to gates.", and I do not understand its meaning either. Are there circuits in which inputs do not go to gates? Perhaps a picture of a circuit with and without this property would be helpful. Intellec7 (talk) 06:23, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe the introduction of this section needs to be rewritten... It is actually a bit weird. I made an attempt at it now. I hope it is better and more clear? Basically, irreversible operations are assignment of constants to unknown variables, information erasure, and functions that are not bijective (which implies the two previous mentioned; assignment and erasure). The text talks a lot about boolean logic gates, but the domain is larger than that.. · · · Omnissiahs hierophant (talk) 19:00, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

" the second law of thermodynamics itself can be understood to be a direct logical consequence of the underlying reversibility of physics,"
yeah, no, somebody is riding their crackpot hobby horse here 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:DD3A:6C0:249E:DC45 (talk) 08:37, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Reversible computing


text:
Arginusae

In classical antiquity, the Arginusae (Ἀργινοῦσαι Arginousai) were three islands off the Dikili Peninsula on the coast of modern-day Turkey, famous as the site of the Battle of Arginusae during the Peloponnesian War. They were also collectively referred to as Canaea after the city of Canae on the largest island. Today two of the islands remain, while the third and largest has become attached to the mainland as a promontory near the modern village of Bademli:

 * Baston Islands
 * Garip Island (Garip Adası, literally "Strange Island"); Nisída Ázano
 * Kalem Island (Kalem Adası, literally "Pen Island"); Nikolo, Vráchos Nikolós
 * Kane Peninsula or Promontory (Kane Yarımadası), called Argennusa (Ἀργέννουσα; Arginusa) in antiquity, when it was an island; Canaea, Canae, Κάνη

Argennusa was the site of the ancient city of Canae.

The names Arginusae and Argennusa come from Ancient Greek arginóeis, argennóeis (ἀργινόεις, ἀργεννόεις), "bright-shining".

title: Arginusae


text:
Saint Vrain

Saint Veranus of Cavaillon (died c. 590) was a French bishop.

Saint Vrain, Saint-Vrain or St. Vrain may also refer to:

People

 * Ceran St. Vrain (1802–1870), American fur trader of French descent
 * Felix St. Vrain (1790–1832), United States Indian agent of French descent
 * Jim St. Vrain (1871–1937), American baseball player

France

 * Saint-Véran, a commune in the Hautes-Alpes department
 * Saint-Vrain, Marne, a commune of the Champagne-Ardenne region
 * Saint-Vrain, Essonne, a commune of the Île-de-France region

United States

 * Fort Saint Vrain, a 19th-century fur trading post in Colorado
 * Saint Vrain Glaciers, a series of glaciers in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado
 * St. Vrain State Park, Colorado
 * St. Vrain Valley School District in Longmont, Colorado
 * St. Vrain, Colorado, a ghost town in Weld County, Colorado
 * St. Vrain, New Mexico
 * St. Vrain's County, Jefferson Territory, later part of Colorado

title: Saint Vrain


text:
Talk:Venezolana de Televisión

top
who have been seen VTV?

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BetacommandBot (talk) 10:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:VTV 2006.jpg
Image:VTV 2006.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 10:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CVTV 1964.JPG
Image:CVTV 1964.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Need section on VTV programming
What is the programming on VTV? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.39.165 (talk) 17:28, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Venezolana de Televisión


text:
Cleophon (poet)

Cleophon (Greek: Kλεoφῶν, Kleophōn) was an Athenian tragic poet. The titles of ten of his plays are given by the Suda: Acteon, Amphiaraos, Achilles, The Bacchantes, Dexamenus, Erigone, Thyestes, Leucippus, Persis, and Telephus. None of these plays are extant today. As six of these titles are also listed by the Suda as works by Iophon, this may be a corruption of "Iophon".

He is referred to by Aristotle in Poetics and Rhetoric, who notes his prosaic style and lack of idealism.

authors: Я сошла с ума

title: Cleophon (poet)


text:
Zelia Nuttall

Zelia Maria Magdalena Nuttall (6 September 1857 – 12 April 1933) was an American archaeologist and anthropologist who specialised in pre-Aztec Mexican cultures and pre-Columbian manuscripts. She discovered two forgotten manuscripts of this type in private collections, one of them being the Codex Zouche-Nuttall. She decoded the Aztec calendar stone and was one of the first to identify and recognise artefacts dating back to the pre-Aztec period.

Biography
Nuttall was born in San Francisco, California, on 6 September 1857, the second of six children to Irish father Robert Kennedy Nuttall, a physician, and Mexican-American mother Magdalena Parrott. Her grandfather was John Parrott, one of San Francisco's richest bankers. When she was eight, the family moved to Europe where she was educated in France, Germany, Italy, and Bedford College in London. Nuttall became an excellent linguist, fluent in four languages and conversant in others.

When the family returned to San Francisco in 1879, she met the French ethnologist, Alphonse Pinart, who was in the city on an ethnological mission for the French government. The couple married in 1880 and Zelia traveled with her husband while he conducted research in the West Indies, France, and Spain. A year later they separated just before the birth of their daughter. They formally divorced in 1888 and Zelia and her daughter returned to her maiden name. At the time of her divorce she also left the Catholic Church.

In 1884 Nuttall made her first trip to Mexico where she spent five months with her mother's wealthy family. During her stay she developed a life-long interest in Mexican history and archaeology. In 1886 she published her first professional article, "Terra Cotta Heads of Teotihuacan" for the American Journal of Archaeology. Nuttall demonstrated the figures were older than previously thought and used in funerary practices. The paper was well received by professionals in the field. She was admitted to the Archaeological Institute of America and the equally acclaimed American Philosophical Society. Frederic Ward Putnam, curator of the Peabody Museum at Harvard, named her special assistant in Mexican archaeology, an honorary post she held for forty-seven years.

Frederic Putnam and German-American anthropologist Franz Boas saw her as an excellent mediator between Americanist circles in different countries because of her education and cosmopolitan relations. In his 1886 annual report for the museum, Putnam praised Nuttall as "familiar with the Nahuatl language, having intimate and influential friends among the Mexicans, and with an exceptional talent for linguistics and archaeology." Her family background made her an ideal partner for relations with Mexico. This would play an important role in the creation of the institution of international cooperation International School of American Archeology and Ethnology in Mexico.

In 1886, Nuttall traveled with her brother to Europe and established her home in Dresden, Germany. She spent the next twelve years searching libraries and museums throughout Europe for information on the history of Mexico. One of her most important finds was a pre-Columbian document of Mixtec pictographs, now known as the Codex Nuttall. She found the manuscript in a private library of Baron Zouche in England. Nuttall was unable to acquire the codex but hired an artist to make a careful copy which was published by the Peabody Museum in 1902. Another important discovery was the Codex Magliabecchiano, which she published in 1903 under the title The Book of the Life of the Ancient Mexicans with an introduction, translation, and commentary. Her claim of discovery was later disputed by a European scholar who reported his find somewhat earlier, but it was Nuttall who publicized the document and made it accessible to a broad audience. In 1901, Nuttall published her largest academic work, The Fundamental Principles of New and Old World Civilizations. Although well received at the time, some of her theories were incorrect. She argued that seafaring Phoenicians sailed to the Americas and as a result of this influence, Meso-American civilizations had developed in parallel with those in Egypt and the Middle East. Archaeologists have since rejected this idea.

During one of her trips back to California, Nuttall met the wealthy philanthropist, Phoebe Hearst. Hearst became a friend, patron, and an important influence in Nuttall's career. Under Hearst's sponsorship, Nuttall joined a mission to Russia organized by the University of Pennsylvania to collect ethnographic materials for their museum. In 1901 Hearst sponsored the establishment of an anthropology department and museum at the University of California, Berkeley, and invited Nuttall to serve on the organizing committee.

In 1902 Nuttall returned to Mexico and worked under the auspices of the new Berkeley anthropology department. Hearst provided funds to purchase a large Spanish colonial mansion near Mexico City. Her home, which she renamed Casa de Alvarado, became her archaeological headquarters, laboratory and a meeting place for scientists and intellectuals. D. H. Lawrence was one of her house guests and he purportedly based his character Mrs. Norris in The Plumed Serpent after Nuttall. Nuttall developed a passion for gardening at Casa Alvarado. She studied Mexican garden art, grew medicinal herbs, and collected seeds of ancient Mexican food plants with the intention of introducing them into the United States. She also assisted in the introduction of taro cultivation in Orizaba.

In 1908, while doing research in the National Archives of Mexico, Nuttall came across a previously unknown manuscript relating to the voyage of Francis Drake's circumnavigation. The discovery prompted her to search archives in New York, Spain, Italy, and France, as well as archives in the Bodleian Library, British Museum and Public Record Office in London for other unpublished documents relating to Drake and John Hawkins. The results of her search, more than 65 previously unpublished documents, were translated and included in her book, New Light on Drake: A Collection of Documents Relating to his Voyage of Circumnavigation, 1577-1580 published in 1914. Based on her research, Nuttall believed that Drake had sailed much further north than was commonly believed along the west coast of North America. She summarized her thesis in a paper, "The Northern Limits of Drake's Voyage in the Pacific", delivered at the Panama-Pacific Historical Congress in 1915. In 1916 she traveled to the Strait of Juan de Fuca between Vancouver Island and Washington State to confirm the details of Drake's travels.

Nuttall was active in Mexican archaeology for most of her career, but her only attempt to direct a large archaeological project, on Isla de Sacrificios, Mexico, was thwarted by Leopoldo Batres, Mexico's inspector of monuments. After performing preliminary research on the island and obtaining funds from the Mexican government, Nuttall was pushed aside by Batres who appointed himself director of the project. She published a full account of the incident in the American Anthropologist in 1910.

Nuttall died on April 12, 1933, at her home near Mexico City. Per her instructions, all of her personal papers were destroyed. The Mexican government seized her residence as payment for taxes and her extensive library was sold to pay off debts.

Nuttall was a member of several academic institutions, including the Harvard Peabody Museum and the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City and she carried out most of her activities without pay and on a fee-for-service basis. In 1895, she was elected as a member of the American Philosophical Society.

Defence of Mesoamerican cultures
Nuttall investigated Mexico's past to give recognition and pride to its present at a time where Western archaeology favoured salacious narratives of ancient Mesoamericans. In 1897, Nuttall published Ancient Mexican Superstitions in The Journal of American Folklore. In it, she criticised the representation of ancient Mexicans as "bloodthirsty savages, having nothing in common with civilised humanity". "Such a hold upon the imagination that it effaces all other knowledge about the ancient civilisation of Mexico", she wrote. She hoped her work would "lead to a growing recognition of the bonds of universal brotherhood which unite the present inhabitants of this great and ancient continent to their not unworthy predecessors."

Outside of her work in anthropology and archaeology, Nuttall, partnered with Phoebe Hearst, worked to educate and preserve the heritage of indigenous Mexicans. One of her students was Manuel Gamio, who would eventually become one of Mexico's most famous archaeologists.

Nuttall advocated for the revival of Mexican traditions that had been eradicated during the Spanish conquest. In 1928, she called for a renewed celebration of the indigenous New Year, which was traditionally observed twice annually by numerous Mesoamerican cultures. That year, Mexico City celebrated the Aztec New Year for the first time since 1519.

Penn Museum mission to Russia
Zelia Nuttall was sent to Russia in 1894 as a representative of the Penn Museum to establish exchanges with Russian museums and offer financial assistance to Russian archaeological excavations in exchange for a share of their discoveries. Sara Yorke Stevenson, a member of the Penn Museum's Board of Managers and Curator of the Egyptian Section, chose Nuttall as the Museum's representative because of Nuttall's knowledge of Russian. The opportunity for Nuttall to attend the coronation of Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna opened when noted philanthropist Phoebe Hearst cancelled her trip to the coronation, and passed the opportunity to the Penn Museum, along with the funds to defray travel expenses and acquire collections.

While Nuttall was in Moscow to attend the coronation, she set up several exchanges between Russian museums and the Penn Museum. In addition, she visited the Pan-Russian Industrial and Art Exhibition at Nizhny Novgorod, where she inspected numerous artifacts from regions as distant as Siberia, and collected more than 400 items from Russia, Finland, Poland, and Russian Turkestan. The artifacts included religious objects, musical instruments, pottery, color lithographs of the 1894 Russian coronation ceremony, and more. She also acquired a photograph collection illustrating customs of the Kyrgyz people from the vicinity of Tashkent and Samarkand.

Ancient manuscripts
Nuttall was known for her ability to find lost or forgotten manuscripts and bring them to the attention of scholars.
 * She traced the Mixtec manuscript, now known as the Codex Zouche-Nuttall, in the library of its owner, Baron Zouche of Haryngworth. A facsimile with an introduction by Nuttall was published in 1902 by the Peabody Museum.
 * In 1890, she identified in the National Central Library of Florence the Codex Magliabecchiano, which she published in 1903 through the University of California under the title The Book of the Life of the Ancient Mexicans. On that occasion, she entered into conflict with the Duke of Loubat, who published it in 1904 without crediting her with the discovery.
 * In 1911, she found at the National Library of Spain the unfinished text of Francisco Cervantes de Salazar's Crónica de la Nueva España, dating from about 1560 and tracing the history of the conquest of Mexico. This was published in 1914
 * She discovered a manuscript in National Library at Madrid relating to the prevention and cure of plague in Spain in 1600–1601. This was published in English translation in 1912
 * She collected the manuscripts of Francis Drake and John Hawkins contained in the National Archives of Mexico, as well as in collections in New York, Spain, Italy, France and England (Bodleian Library, British Museum and Public Archives of London). The set was published in 1914 by the Hakluyt Society of London under the title A New Light on Drake. To complete the work, she traveled in 1916 to the Juan de Fuca Strait between Vancouver Island and Washington State to confirm the details of Drake's travels.

title: Zelia Nuttall


text: Talk:Walter Martínez (journalist)

title: Talk:Walter Martínez (journalist)


text:
User:Gizm0id

Gizm0id: An otherwise nice guy who anonymously edited several articles before reading how to post his justifications in the discussion boards. Previously known as "anonyous Editor".

title: User:Gizm0id


text:
Kleophon Painter

The Kleophon Painter is the name given to an anonymous Athenian vase painter in the red-figure style who flourished in the mid-to-late 5th century BC. He is thus named because one of the works attributed to him bears an inscription in praise of a youth named "Kleophon". He appears to have been originally from the workshop of Polygnotos, and in turn to have taught the so-called Dinos Painter. Three vases suggest a collaboration with the Achilles Painter, while a number of black-figure works have also been attributed to him by some scholars.

Background
The Kleophon Painter was known for his paintings of various red-figure Attic vases during the fifth century BC. The themes of his vases for the most part stick to a few specific genres, specifically, Greek mythology, domestic themes (including sacrifices and parades), and paintings of warriors. Of the vases that have been discovered, there are 104 domestic style vases, forty-three mythological vases, and twenty-four paintings about warriors. His vases can be found throughout the world. Even in the 5th century BC he shipped vases as far as Italy and Spain, according to the provenance that the vases have been found in. The majority of his vases are bigger vases, with only a few smaller ones. Most of his vases are kraters.

The Kleophon Painter had a pretty common style which makes his vases difficult to distinguish from other vases that were painted during the same time period. Many vases are classified as "in the manner of Kleophon P" or "compares to Kleophon P". One painter that he was similar to was the Dinos Painter. The Dinos Painter also had a fairly general style, which made him and Kleophon similar and hard to distinguish between. One of the ways to identify works by the Kleophon Painter is by the location of the vase combined with the attributes on the vase such as the theme, type of vase, patterns, and style of the characters on the vase, especially the eyes and chin. In the Kleophon Painter’s case, the eyes are usually a rounded off triangular shape and the chin is generally rounded off or even bulbous at times.

The Kleophon Painter was likely located in or around the city-state of Athens, as his work was mostly discovered there. Twenty-two of the Kleophon Painter’s vases are still located in Athens at either the Agora Museum or the National Archaeological Museum.

The characters he paints are almost always seen in the home. Other creations depict a warrior departing or returning home or mythologically themed works. These are harder to attribute to him because so many vase painters use mythology as a subject; however, the Kleophon Painter was fairly specific with what myths he painted, usually either Dionysus with his Maenads or Hephaestus. Dionysus is harder to determine because many kraters that were used to hold wine had paintings of Dionysus on them, and they were not always the work of the Kleophon Painter. Hephaestion is a less common subject to paint which makes those vases easier to pick out.

Vases
The Kleophon Painter painted mostly large vases, especially calyxes. Of the 180 known vases that he painted, sixty-nine were calyxes. He painted twenty-seven hydriai and nineteen pelikes. He painted twelve stamnoi and eleven amphoras. There are also seven loutrophoroi, five lekythoi, one pyxis and one cup discovered that have been determined to be the work of the Kleophon Painter.

Domestic or ritual
The most common theme painted on the Kleophon Painter’s vases was a domestic or ritual theme. There are 104 known vases by the Kleophon Painter that have domestic or ritual themes to them. He painted the domestic theme on a variety of different styles of vases. He liked to paint ceremonies such as weddings and the Komos. The Komos was a ceremony in ancient Greece where most of the people involved would drink heavily and parade into the center of town. It is not known what the purpose of this ceremony was but historians theorize that it was either to celebrate a wedding or some kind of worship for the gods. If the painting was not a sacrifice, Komos or parade then it was probably just a regular domestic theme from ancient Greece.

A great example of a domestic style vase is an Attic red-figure hydria discovered in Delos, Greece, and currently located in the Mykonos Archaeological Museum. The date range for this work is between 450 and 400 BC. It has few if any intricacies about it. It is a plain painting of two women facing each other. On the very top lip there is a tongue pattern that wraps all the way around the top of the hydria. There is a more intricate tongue pattern that wraps around the neck just above the shoulder of the hydria. Around the bottom there is a meander pattern interrupted with a cross pattern every fourth block. With the exception of these three patterns the hydria is very basic. It shows two women standing facing each other with a mirror suspended in between them. The woman on the left (as you look at the hydria) is holding a box with her head bowed. She is wearing a hat and does not have hands that are visible. The woman on the right has her head bowed as well but not quite as far and is not wearing a hat. Both women’s faces are strikingly similar. The eyes are triangular in shape, which is a common feature in most of the Kleophon Painter’s works. Their noses are unnaturally triangular and their chins have a smooth curve. The woman on the right has a slightly more bulbous chin than the one on the left. Both women are wearing fairly basic robes that go all the way down to their feet. The robes have a few lines and folds in them but for the most part are plain. The only two things in the background are a mirror that seems to be hanging in midair (most likely to be presumed that it is hung on a wall) and a seat with a simple pattern on it.

The Kleophon Painter’s style of painting clothing is fairly consistent throughout a large portion of his works.

Another domestic painting that is attributed to the Kleophon Painter is a calyx krater with two youths preparing to sacrifice a bull, discovered in Spina, Italy, and currently located in Ferrara in the Museo Nazionale di Spina. The Italian location indicates that the Kleophon painter shipped his vases outside of Greece. The date range is 450 to 400 BC. This is the same date range found on almost all of the Kleophon Painter’s works, which means that he did not have anyone carry on his workshop after he died. The krater itself has a leaf pattern that circles the top lip. There is a meander pattern, interrupted by a cross every fourth block, that wraps around the bottom. Side A shows two young males leading a bull to an altar, presumably to be sacrificed. Both of these young males have on robes that stop just above their feet. The eyes, again, are triangular shaped on the youths, but much more circular on the bull. Side B shows the same two boys, but no bull. It can be assumed that the goal of painting the krater this way was to show that the bull had been sacrificed. The boys are standing at the same altar that they had led the bull to on Side A.

Greek mythology
The second most common theme in the Kleophon Painter’s works is Greek mythology. He often painted the return of Hephaestus or depictions of Dionysus. Hephaestus was the god of metalworking. According to myth, he was cast out of Olympia by Zeus after he stood up against him in defense of his mother. He would end up on earth and is said to have made armor for Achilles that was so bright and obviously god-made that the Trojans fled instantly at the sight of it. Those who did not were mercilessly slain. Kleophon paints the return of Hephaestus quite a few times on pelikes, skyphoi and kraters.

Dionysus was the god of the grape harvest and wine. He is usually painted by the Kleophon Painter with his female followers called Maenads. They were known for getting extremely drunk and losing all inhibitions, often engaging in uncontrolled sexual behavior as well as hunting wild animals. Dionysus and the Maenads were usually painted on kraters by the Kleophon Painter, likely because the kraters were used for making wine.

While the themes of Dionysus and Hephaestus are common in the Kleophon Painter’s works, one of the best examples of a mythological theme is a painting of Eos and Kephalos, in the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. It is an Attic red-figure vase dating from 430 to 420 BC, attributed to the Kleophon Painter by John Beazley. The painting is black from the top of the neck down to the middle of the neck with a tongue pattern interrupting the black and red in the middle of the neck. Below the tongue pattern is a three flower pattern wrapped around the neck of the lekythos. The flower pattern extends from the tongue pattern at the thinnest part of the neck down to the top of the shoulder. It has one handle (black with red on the inside) that extends the length of the neck ending at the shoulder. Wrapped around the shoulder is a red meander pattern interrupted by a saltire pattern every fourth box. Underneath the shoulder is where the main decoration is located. It is a picture of the Titaness Eos with her lover, Kephalos. Eos is, in Greek mythology, the goddess of the dawn. Kephalos was her lover, she can be seen in other vase paintings holding Kephalos, who is sometimes painted in the nude. In this painting, both figures are clothed. Eos is identified by her wings and flowing robes. Eos’ eyes are triangular and directed toward Kephalos. Kephalos’ eyes are slightly more circular but still triangular in appearance and face back toward Eos. Eos has many folds on her clothing which are rounded off at the bottom whereas Kephalos has almost no folds in his clothing.

The vase is symmetric all the way around the neck and top of the shoulder. The only discrepancy is that the handle is located right between side A and B. The vase changes from a symmetrical vase with nothing but patterns to a scene of Eos and Kephalos underneath the shoulder. On side A, Eos can be seen reaching out toward Kephalos. She is wearing long robes and has wings that are folded behind her. Side B shows Kephalos with an aggressive-looking stance facing Eos. He is wearing a hat and has shorter robes. He is wearing calf-high boots with heels that are a slightly darker red than the rest of his body.

The lekythos depicting Eos and Kephalos does an excellent job of showing the common trends in the style of painting in a majority of the Kleophon Painter’s works. The meander pattern interrupted every fourth block is a good indicator that this is a Kleophon painting. Most of his works include a meander pattern as well as a tongue pattern. The meander pattern is almost always interrupted every fourth block. The next thing to look at is the eyes on the figures in the painting. They usually come to a point furthest from the nose and may or may not be slightly rounded out. The background is very plain as it is with most of the Kleophon Painter’s vases and this vase is fairly large.

Warriors
The third and final main theme found in the Kleophon Painter’s works is that of warriors. The warriors are usually shown leaving their families or coming home, rarely are they seen in battle. It seems that the Kleophon Painter liked to make paintings that would have had an upper-class female target market. This can be seen by the location that most of the vases were discovered in as well as the themes that he is known for painting. The only time warriors are seen is when they are around the home, either departing or returning. This indicates that the women in the house would have these vases around as reminders of their loved ones.

An excellent example of a painting of a departing warrior is found on Attic red-figure vase number 215168. This is a bell krater that was discovered in South Italy. It is currently located in the Staatliche Antikensammlungen in Munich, Germany. The date range, as with almost all other Kleophon Painter vases, is 450 to 400 BC. This krater was attributed by Beazley. The krater has a leaf pattern wrapped around the top of it with lines bordering the top and bottom of the pattern. There are tongue patterns wrapped around the part of the krater where the handle meets the krater at both connecting points on both handles. The rest of both handles are painted black. At the bottom of the krater there is a meander pattern interrupted every third block with a saltire pattern. This pattern is also bordered on both the top and bottom with a solid line. The scene on side A shows the warrior flanked by two other figures; an old man who appears to be handing the warrior his helmet, and a woman who is seen holding the warrior’s shield. The old man and the woman are both wearing robes while the warrior is depicted nude. The shield has a dot in the center with thirteen prongs coming out away from the dot and coming to a point at varying lengths within the shield itself. The warrior is wearing nothing but a headband and a sheath with his sword in it. His robe is draped over his left arm which is holding his spear. Side B shows three youths all wearing robes. The eyes, again, are all triangular in shape. The youth to the far right has his right hand up as if telling the other two youths to stop or slow down. He is facing to the left (as you look at the vase) while the other two are facing back at him. All three have very similar, almost identical faces. They all have on the same style robes and are wearing a thin headband covered somewhat by their hair.

title: Kleophon Painter