text:
Talk:Glenn Frey

Death
Isn't that sentence about his death vandalism? Rich (talk) 22:41, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Never mind...it was apparently corrected (thank you) while I was typing this Rich (talk) 22:42, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Death confirmed here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:42, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

 * I knew he was dead; it's just that the original wording in the article was someone's sick idea of humor. 2605:6000:F68E:7900:2945:2F87:6844:67DA (talk) 20:20, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

He didn't have the surgery; he was only scheduled to have it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.25.65 (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The Washington Times reference #25 says "The death was first reported by TMZ on Monday afternoon, saying that Mr. Frey had surgery for intestinal problems in November and then “in the last few days his condition took a turn for the worse.”" It's possible TMZ got it wrong.  Any references saying that Frey did not have surgery in November?  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 00:35, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2016
On January 18, 2016, Frey died at the age of 67 in New York City of a combination of complications from rheumatoid arthritis, acute ulcerative colitis, and pneumonia while recovering from intestinal surgery in November.
 * ✅ by another editor. WWGB (talk) 00:42, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Death cause on infobox
Could it be easier just to say surgical complications since that was listed as the main COD in a variety of news outlets? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:35, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Arthritis and colitis are not considered fatal conditions, so it is most unlikely they were cause(s) of death. Guess we will have to wait for a coroner's report or a death certificate. WWGB (talk) 03:51, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

 * It appears he has had these intestinal problems for a while, which required 'major surgery' as indicated in November 2015 here.

 * So should we remove the death_cause from the infobox until the official cause has been reported by the coroner? --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:59, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
 * We do have a COD from reliable media, it just may not be completely accurate in a medical sense. I see that Irving Azoff has now said that Frey's arthritis medication may have caused his intestinal problems, so there is sure to be more to come. I think we can keep the current COD as being informative, but update it if/when further info becomes available. WWGB (talk) 01:23, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

History of the Eagles
Does anyone want to try expanding the History of the Eagles article I created in in December 2013? It hasn't gotten much love since then, and the documentary could be a good source of info for this article too. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Thelma and Louise Soundtrack and Shakedown Connections
Part of Me, Part of You was featured in the movie Thelma and Louise as well as the soundtrack so connection of song should be to Frey's album as well as the Soundtrack on the discography http://www.amazon.com/Thelma-Louise-Original-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B000002OGB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453338013&sr=8-1&keywords=thelma+and+louise+soundtrack

Glenn Frey was originally slated to sing the song from the Beverly Hills Cop III soundtrack that went to #1, Shakedown - however due to laryngitis and not liking the song, recommended his friend, Bob Seger, should sing it, giving Seger his only #1 song on the Billboard Hot 100 - according to Fred Bronson's Billboard Book of #1 Hits - https://books.google.com/books?id=PgGqNrqfrsoC&pg=PT681&lpg=PT681&dq=Shakedown+Bob+Seger+Bronson+Frey&source=bl&ots=cJBh2jf9eC&sig=6H6aR_7ABL5z21R2dcK4G4y4SGw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKiLTW27nKAhVE82MKHdcHCnQQ6AEIHzAA#v=onepage&q=Shakedown%20Bob%20Seger%20Bronson%20Frey&f=false

Shakedown was #1 Song #672 in the book I linked above,

The Wikipedia page is not allowing any edits, so I am inlcuding my comments above, thanks! Johnnycasino1 (talk) 01:15, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I added the "Shakedown" info to the Frey article and to Shakedown (Bob Seger song). "Part of Me, Part of You" is already mentioned in the Frey article.  Could you please be more specific as to exactly what change you would like?
 * The Frey article is only semi-protected. Once you make a few more edits in some other articles, you will be able to edit semi-protected articles.  Thanks!  GoingBatty (talk) 20:46, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Do we need sub-sections under Tributes
Oppose. Mlpearc ( open channel ) 20:23, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you opposing the subsection I created or the item I added to the section? If it's a matter of formatting, then change the formatting. There's no need to start an edit war over this. I only intended to add a tribute by Frey's hometown. Drdpw (talk) 20:29, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * As the section title states, the sub-section.  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 20:31, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Then I will add the street's renaming w/o altering the subsection heading. Drdpw (talk) 20:34, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with adding a single sentence about the street name under the existing Tributes section. WWGB (talk) 00:31, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Those obituaries should really be going into WP:EL. Street-naming has an air of the trivial to me. And should the entire 'Tributes' section not be simply included under death? Looking at the David Bowie article, editors decided to take that course of action in relation to tributes. Karst (talk) 09:24, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Moving the obituaries and the tributes as you suggest makes sense to me. Also, if the present items under tributes were moved, then adding the street renaming would indeed have an "air of the trivial" to it. Drdpw (talk) 17:24, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Family history, solving the family name riddle
The German family name stems from stepfather Eddie. The biological father was a Franco-Canadian. Glenn was born to Nellie Marie (Markham) and Robert George Cedar. He was raised by his mother and her second husband, Edward “Eddie” Warren Frey.

Glenn’s paternal grandparents were James Edward Cedar (the son of William DuCidre/Cedar and Helene/Heleine/Ellen Boucher/Bouchet/Bushey) and Charlotte H. Watson (the daughter of Ernest Watson and Eliza Elizabeth Howcroft). James was born in Kent, Ontario, Canada, of French-Canadian descent. Charlotte was born in Michigan, to English parents.

Glenn’s maternal grandparents were George Dewey Markham (the son of John Markham and Lucy Sue Scott) and Edith May/Mae McVey (the daughter of Sanford Jackson McVey and Mable Claire Dean). Lucy was the daughter of Mandaville Jackson Scott and Rebecca Ann Cooper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:46:1A12:959F:E5A8:329:23E4:45F2 (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Reference 18 (Absolute Radio) refers back to this article
When I followed reference number 18 citing a quotation, it led me to an Absolute Radio page which states this Wikipedia page as its source. As such, I feel this reference is merely an infinite loop and not a true indication of a source.

I am not sure what should be done about this, but I am sure someone who reads this will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.83.218.62 (talk) 23:49, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I have replaced the citation with a call for a fresh one.  —EncMstr (talk) 19:29, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Wiseguy - TV show 1987-1990
Glenn Frey was a regular character on the TV show, Wiseguy, playing the character Bobby Travis.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0749460/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.148.107.162 (talk) 21:14, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

 * He only appeared in one "series arc", according to Wiseguy. Power~enwiki (talk) 21:19, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

deacon frey
does anyone know why deacon frey redirects to his fathers page(here). he is in his 3rd year with the eagles. i imagine he should be worthy of his own page. [User:Pga1965|Pga1965]] (talk) 10:28, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Wanna write one? WWGB (talk) 10:56, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Glenn Frey


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User talk:Dieguez

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User talk:Dannyhoffman

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Talk:Degrees of the University of Bristol

Requested move
I created this page with the wrong capitalization of 'u' and 'b'. Oops - sorry.

Splash 01:09, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

A page that's crying out for deletion, I'm afraid. Why is this notable in any way? There seems to be almost nothing unique about Bristol degrees- why couldn't this be merged with another UK higher-education article? Badgerpatrol 23:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You could say the same for everything in Category:University of Bristol. In principle, yes, I agree with you; merge into University of Bristol or delete outright? - mholland 00:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I would say delete outright unfortunately (or convert into a general standalone UK degrees page); there just doesn't seem to be anything notable in here at all. A quick glance at the rest of the category suggests that not all of it is baloney though- the only ones that I might definitely suggest for the chop would be Academic dress of the University of Bristol (which should be merged with the main UoB article) and *ahem* Bristol University Latin American and Ballroom Dancing Society (which is useless). Cheers, Badgerpatrol 23:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The reason I made this page and the other page you think is crap is because the Uni article is already very long, and we are to try to keep page size down to less than 32kb. This is also why I removed the PROD tag. -Splash talk 00:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Added prod tag. This article is non-notable and merely repeats information from other pages, e.g. Academic degrees. From my reading of the page and from my own knowledge, there is nothing noteworthy or unusual whatsoever about the way Bristol hands out degrees, or the degrees they hand out. If anyone disagrees, please state reasons, remove the prod tag, and we can consider whether or not AfD is in order (unless said reason is very good, in my opinion it definitely is). Cheers, and sorry, because obviously some effort has gone into the page. Badgerpatrol 00:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * OK, AfD it is then. Why is this topic in any way notable? Badgerpatrol 00:54, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Notable? Notability is diffcicult to apply to such things, I think. It's the details of the degrees awarded by a major University in the UK. Redirect it somewhere, or merge it back into the Uni article (and make it massively over 32kb), but why outright deletion? -Splash talk 00:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Why is notability difficult to apply? What material is covered in this article that does not appear elsewhere in general academic degree articles? I see nothing unusual or different whatsoever about the way Bristol awards degrees- why does this article exist where no corresponding one can be found for (to my knowledge) any other UK university? I don't see anything encyclopaedic about this information to make it worth preserving- at the VERY most, all I would personally do is place a one-line summary in the main University of Bristol article along the lines of 'Bristol awards degrees in a similar fashion to almost every other British university- see Academic degrees'. I don't really think even that is worthwhile, to be honest. Would you rather every UK university had a similar page, 99% of which would be virtual mirrors of one another? Please explain your reasoning, I am confused. Badgerpatrol 01:06, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You don't sound in the least confused. Why do the other articles not exist? That would be because noone made them yet. It is peculiar to suggest that the degree awarding practises of a major University in the United Kingdom are likely to be of utterly zero interest to all readers of an encyclopedia and all those who come here to learn how the University works. It is more peculiar still to suggest that it is of such obvious disinterest as to think that it PRODable. It strikes me that you may not have read University of Bristol, for your middle suggestion is precisely what has already been done, the aim being to provide the information to those who seek it whilst not overloading an already-long article with information that is self-contained enough to stand alone. -Splash talk 01:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Hi Splash- First of all, please try not to take this personally. I fully appreciate that effort has gone into this page, as I described in my edit above. I first left a note on this page outlining my intentions 6 weeks ago, and heard nothing from you or anyone else, apart from one assent. Within a few seconds of my placing the prod tag, you popped up. If you feel that it would serve wiki to include dozens if not hundreds of new pages mirroring almost exactly the same content, then I am surprised. I do think you would be in the minority in that view. I have read University of Bristol and it is an excellent page, in that it contains encyclopaedic information specifically pertinent to Bristol and does not mirror content more obviously available on other general pages. I intend to pursue the AfD, and the community can decide whether to delete or merge, if the general feeling is that some information of encyclopaedic value can be salvaged. Again, I really apologise that you seem to be annoyed, there is no bad faith here, I just do not see the merit of the page. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 01:24, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The information in the commentary at the end of the article says what it is that is different about this pattern of awards to others. Why throw that away? -Splash talk 01:28, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I wonder if merging those paragraphs to some extent into the main article would appease you, or whether you think the information to be of worldwide, permanent irrelevance? -Splash talk 01:33, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As a compromise, I reckon that's a pretty good idea. I'm not personally convinced that even that info is really worth keeping, but there is certainly enough ambiguity to make it at least worthwhile merging that into the main Bristol page and, I'm afraid, ditching the rest. If the consensus among editors is that it shouldn't be there, then it'll be whittled out anyway, if the opposite then it shall remain. You have summed up my general point very well- it is worth preserving the information that is different from other universities, not that which is the same (i.e. the vast majority of Degrees of the University of Bristol). I still feel that the article is not noteworthy (r.e. its content, not presentation, which is v. good) but if you feel strongly that some of the info should be preserved, I am happy to forego the RfD- I don't like doing it anyway. Again, I'm sorry that you were annoyed- this could all have been discussed several weeks ago, I do feel that I gave fair warning. However, if you didn't see it, you didn't see it. In short: Yes, go ahead and merge those paras with University of Bristol. Cheers and all the best, Badgerpatrol 01:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Procedurally, we can't remove the redirect since it contains the history of the material, and the GFDL says we have to retain that (this is standard procedure following a merge). I'm not annoyed, I'm just making you defend your point vigorously. I have approx 1000 pages and their talk pages on my watchlist, and it is hard to spot every one as it goes by. -Splash talk 01:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. -Splash talk 02:14, 20 March 2006 (UTC)


text:
File:HalberMenschAlbumCover.jpg

Summary
This image depicts the cover of Halber Mensch by Einstürzende Neubauten.

CD booklet cover scanned by Gyrofrog on June 2, 2005, to be used specifically in the Halber Mensch article in accordance with the fair use provision of U.S. copyright law.

title: File:HalberMenschAlbumCover.jpg


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Neo-Satanism

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 23:52, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Neo-Satanism
Non-notable neologism. What isn't covered by Satanism? User:Luigi30 (Υσηρ ταλκ ΛυηγηΛ) 01:10, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Satanism 01:12, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)CAPS LOCK
 * Merge drini ☎ 01:58, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. — Phil Welch 23:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - Tεx  τ  urε  18:09, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I merged this article with Satanism User:Admiral Roo
 * Completely and utterly erase FredrikM 19:18, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
User:ComicMasta

ComicMasta is a Telecom Engineer. He was born in 1977 on February 3rd, and now lives in Washington, DC.

Contributions
ComicMasta has contributed to the following articles:

iDEN WiDEN Sirius Satellite Radio XM Satellite Radio

title: User:ComicMasta


text:
Talk:Jury rigging

Contradiction
The first part of this article states that jerry-rig was named after "jerry cans" in WWII (jerry being slang for German), right underneath it says that the WWII explanation is a false etymology. The article should be more internally consistent with its views. --99.150.241.219 (talk) 19:37, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Etymology source
I've removed the cryptic reference to Skeat in Jury rig because it doesn't provide any concrete information. If users Palapala or Prosfilaes (who added or refined the info), or anyone else for that matter, know in what work Skeat (first) provides this argument, please add it back with an appropriate citation in the References section. Thank you. — Jeff Q (talk) 01:11, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tiger Tanks?
Maybe panzers in general, but the Tiger tanks, to the best of my knowledge, were Soviet T-34s. You'd expect that with the Soviets also on the scene and also fighting the Germans, that the allied soliders would be taught how to tell the difference between a Nazi and Soviet operated T-34... So I'm changing it to say "Panzer" to generalize it, as the soldiers probably would've known that the Tigers weren't German made.

 * Tigers were T-34s? I don't think so! In any case, this whole part of the article is a red herring. "Jerry-built" is a separate expression whose history predates the use of the term Jerry for Germans, as the article cited in the reference points out. The use of "jerry-rigged" (including at least twice in the last few months by the otherwise well-edited New Yorker magazine) clearly stems from confusion between the two terms. Skookumpete 22:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Jerry-rigged is simply wrong and should be removed from this article. Should Doggy Dog (Dog Eat Dog) and French (Fringe) benefits get some mention? ;-)

 * And no, Tiger tanks have no similiary to Soviet T-34s other than the fact they are tanks.

Jimberg98 15:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Should we change the word "Often"?
The article says 'Often bastardized in English to "nigger rig" (offensive)'. I'd hardly say that this is "often" given that I've never heard this bastardization in my life. Also, the "in English" part is sort of weak -- what other language are we going to be talking about in the English version of this page, Dutch? My recommendation is that this portion be either dropped entirely, or qualified like 'Sometimes bastardized in the southern United States as...'. I would change it myself, but I am a complete wiki-newbie and thought it might be more polite to post my comment here instead.

 * I agree. I don't see how this particular portion of the entry is in the best interest of the article.  66.253.36.140 00:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I've heard the term used by several people and I've used it as well. The term is meant as a joke, so no need to get uppity and politically correct. Infact, suggesting that the term is from the "southern United States" is tantamount to the reason the next guy feels 'nigger rig' as "this particular portion of the entry is in the best interest of the article."

 * If it's useful information (and I don't think it is; this is not a dictionary, after all), it belongs in the "Other forms" section along with "Jimmy rig". Skookumpete 22:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

What is the author trying to say when he uses the word 'attested' in the section discussed herein? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.231.60 (talk) 02:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * and when did ‘infact’ become one word? Is it like ‘alot’ - ‘I write poor quality prose in Wikipedia alot’ ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.203.82.95 (talk) 07:09, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

This is a common term in the south. It is offensive, yes, but I believe that it should be noted, as history isn't always pretty and who are we to edit history and potentially erase it from history by making it so taboo that it can't even be an entry in an "encyclopedia" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.235.53.246 (talk) 03:23, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Appropriateness of racial epithets in an encyclopedia
During recent work on the article, I've refactored what is now the "Similar phrases" section. If you look at the article history there's been quite a few reverts regarding the inclusion the term "nigger-rig" in the article. I completely understand why people reading the article might have a gut reaction and remove it; I too find it offensive. However, given WP guidelines on offensive speech and the term's apparent use in the real world in contexts similar to "jury-rig" or "jerry-rig" it does seem to warrant inclusion on the grounds of relevance.

My feeling is that having a well-written, properly referenced statement about the phrase is the best way to stabilize the article. I have made a first pass at this, but feel free to discuss and improve. Someone with a reputable slang dictionary could help in this regard... --Dfred (talk) 01:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. stuston (talk) 22:58, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

While I understand why the term "nigger rig" would be included in this article, an also why people would want it removed, most usually by knee jerk reaction, my reason for believing it should be removed is different. Frankly, just because the term may exist in some slang somewhere, I believe we can all agree that it is an inappropriate term, which is considered offensive by many, and is incredibly insensitive. I fail to see the relevance the term carries that it be included in an article about a legitimate English phrase. Iamjamieq (talk) 17:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

 * If we're going to include "nigger-rigged", perhaps we should also include "Jap shit" and "Beaner crap"? Come on, folks, there are ENDLESS permutations. The article needs to stay on focus. Proxy User (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Unfortunately, "nigger rig" is a very common permutation of "jury rig". I don't like the term any more than you, but the fact that it is commonly used is unquestionable. It is not the place of an encyclopedia or any reference publication to sanitize language or exclude facts simply to avoid offense. I would hope that someday the term becomes so uncommon that there is no need to include such an archaic and offensive slang permutation of "jury rig" in this entry, but unfortunately that time has not come yet, and I think the term "nigger rig" should be included in this article. Simply ignoring the existence of racist terms in a Wikipedia does not do anything to reduce their usage. The exclusion of this information may be with the best of intentions, but it is ultimately misguided. --SmashTheGlass (talk) 14:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I was very surprised not to find nigger rigged. Of the alternative terms mentioned, it is the only one I heard growing up in Indiana in the 50s and 60s and it was in very common usage. Somewhere in 70s I started hearing jury rigged and figured it was a new term coined or uncovered to avoid offense. I don't care to know all the decision processes within WP. I am just sharing my surprise. I think I heard jury rigged and jerry rigged appear about the same time and the choice between those two led me here.

This entire website is a joke as long as that stays up. lets be honest. ESPECIALLY without a reference. If you have to think about it that long, racist or otherwise, it needs a reference. The best way to "stabilize" the article is for wikipedia to show some common sense and delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.160.209 (talk) 08:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I live in Texas. In my entire life, I have never once heard the phrase "jury rigged." Every single person has said "nigger rigged."

I find it interesting that jerry rigged is used and nigger rigged is not since the later has a wide spread usage. I'm sorry for the insensitive people who keep reverting it but the history of racism won't disappear because you delete it off wiki. Though undoubtedly a lesser ethnic slur jerry is none the less an ethnic slur.It would be inappropriate to name name it and other widely used versions.70.15.191.119 (talk) 10:22, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I have to concur with some of the previous comments. I live in the St. Louis area, and by far the most common form of this expression is "nigger rigged". On the few occasions I've heard somebody actually use the phrase "jerry rigged", it always seemed like it was a forced politically correct euphemism for the decidedly non-politically correct alternative. Of course, I'm not condoning this practice, nor am I trying to promote the usage of this term in any way -- I'm just commenting on its widespread use. In fact, until I read this article, I always assumed that "jerry rigged" was some sort of recently coined replacement for the other phrase. I had no idea that jury/jerry predated the other. -- Big Brother 1984 (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

The phrase "nigger rig" does not belong in this article, but not because it is simply racist but because it is not appropriate in the scope of this article. The inclusion of a word/phrase in the "Similar Phrases" section should depend on whether said phrase has the same meaning. For instance the term "MacGyver" is appropriate because "to MacGyver something" implies using materials in ways that they were not intended much like "Jury Rigging". The term "nigger rig" however implies something completely different, i.e. shoddy workmanship and not simply using materials in unexpected ways. Simply put "Jury Rigging" does not imply any judgement on the final product, whereas the term "nigger rig" most certainly has negative connotations BECAUSE it uses a racial epithet. I'm not saying the term "nigger rig" has no place on wikipedia, but it would be more appropriate on a page discussing racial insults. JCL 16:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I have to disagree with above, it doesn't necessarily mean that. I've heard "jerry rigged" to mean shoddy work as well. I think it should be included, but needs some solid references so it can stick. nezZario (talk) 21:23, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Adding in a link to Google Trends to help show which phrases are most common. It appears that while some of you may live in places where something other than "jerry rig" is common or once was, nationally only "jerry rig" registers at all according to Google.--173.219.163.211 (talk) 18:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I grew up outside of Philly. I always used the term 'Jerry-rigged', and I hadn't realized that there was a racist version of it at all. What drew me to this page was being called out by my significant other who 'informed me' that 'jerry-rig' was an offensive term. For me, having a history of the term as well as reference to the racial slang version was useful, and what I was looking for. Has anyone checked the OED for the term 'nigger-rig' in order to determine etymological origins? As a side note, I agree with having solid references surrounding the use of this. Kitty4777 (talk) 01:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

I've copied the following comment here, from who apparently couldn't find the talk page! Kendall-K1 (talk) 14:50, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

IVANMICHAELOVITCH: I was using the work computer which, it transpires, has a patronisation filter on it.

 * IVANMICHAELOVITCH: Tried to, couldn't find it.  I could add a long list of racial slurs relating to poor workmanship, plus a couple of misogynist ones, plus at least one relating to homophobia. I think either we include all of the offensive terms or lose the anti-African American one.  Since I don't have time to add all of the other abuse, plus references & cultural cross-links, I've deleted the Afro-Engineering one.

Another genuine consideration here is the extent to which Wikipedia is meant to represent a world view. Nigger rig may well be / have been a common epithet in the Southern USA but I'd never heard it in the UK. Heard "Paddy-Rig", meaning something done by an Irishman; and several relating to Indian workmanship. As I said in my note though, we should either include a full list - which would rapidly turn into a list of abuse stereotypes - or none. "Jerry-Rig" BTW is a corruption of "Jury Rig", not an anti-German stereotype. The German stereotype is rather the reverse. "Jury" rig is from the use of Jury in old English to mean a temporary or expedient thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.254.200.2 (talk) 06:39, 1 September 2016

I support adding "nigger-rig" as a cross-reference if not even it's own article. First, it is as appropriate to include racial epithets in an encyclopedia as it is to include them in the dictionary. Such is reflected by several of the major encyclopedia brands which are better respected than is Wikipedia. For that matter I don't see such terms being struck by Miriam-Webster any time in the near-future to boot. Secondly the whole world-view issue with regard to this is moot. The Southern USA is part of the World, ergo it's cultural references are just as important to the whole "World-view" thing as those derived from the UK or anywhere else.The World-view policy is therefore meant and intended to be applied to the article in the sense of the macro-sense not the micro-sense. Thirdly, whether we like it or not, the term "nigger-rig" in and of itself has historical cultural significance and reference in the United States as a component of the presence of a political ideology which was particularly popular in the 1950s-1970s, if not anything else. Otherwise, we have to delete the entire article on the word "Nigger" because it is racially offensive. It is not responsible to attempt to use policy in intellectually dishonest ways to justify striking things from articles just because we don't like them. Such is capricious and not very objective- ergo it does not set an appropriate encyclopedic tone and is wholly irresponsible as well as being profoundly intellectually dishonest to others. 2605:A601:4515:F400:88AA:39D5:4291:E94C (talk) 07:11, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The short version is WP:NOTCENSORED. We have an encyclopedic purpose in recording variant usage (as well as in noting when some of it is likely to be offensive, at least when used by persons who are not in-group).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Additional information
Trivia section? ==

I've removed the following recently added section from the article on same grounds one would remove a Trivia section: WP:TRIVIA... My specific comments are included inline below.

 * ==Additional Information==
 * "Breadboard" or "Breadboarding", from the practise of inventors, usually experimenting with electrics or electronics, of fixing componenets to a flat surface of (non-conductive) wood similar to an actual breadboard until such time as the device can be perfected to the point of application, by which time the mechanism may be given some type of permanent housing, such as a radio case or purpose built shell. The term is now used in the sense of 'knocking together' components into a working machine. Plastic Breadboards are now commercially available, allowing inventors and engineers to construct projects with ease, before mass producing their devices, or simply to make a professional job of a single project.

 * This information about breadboarding is probably more appropriate in the mock-up or prototype articles rather than here.

 * Cartoonist Heath Robinson and his American counterpart Rube Goldberg are both worthy of mention, as their names have also entered the popular lexicon; Both men devised impractical, fantastic machinary designed to do unlikely tasks, which appeared to be home built contraptions of drain pipes, knotted string etc (rather like the board of the Mouse Trap (board game), actually inspired by Goldberg's work) rather than professional constructions. They are recalled in such phrases as "It's a bit Heath Robinson, but it'll do for now".

 * My sense is that these Robinson/Golberg solutions are more jerry-built than jury-rigged; often being unnecessarily complex and bordering on ridiculous. Jury rigging indicates a solution to an unexpected or temporary problem.  It may be reasonable to add these as items in the "Similar phrases" section.  References would be appreciated.

 * MacGuyver. The TV show MacGuyver, whose weekly plots revolved around the eponymous hero using handy materials (as in the A-Team) and a Swiss Army knife to think up practical solutions to deadly problems, has provided the post-modern term 'To Macguyver' a gadget/repair/device etc.

 * ''MacGyverisms are referenced in the "See also" section. His makeshift and often elegant (if far-fetched) solutions to problems do seem to fit with jury rigging, perhaps something could be worked into the lead about modern examples of jury rigging.

--Dfred (talk) 03:21, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Who Watches the Watchman ?
With apologies to all offended parties, I have returned the edits to their rightful place; The article is about the term 'Jury Rig'and is not about interesting knots; I understand how it feels when you have an article site just the way you want it (I really do !) and somebody else adds to "Your" article- when one feels himself to be its 'watchman', as it were. It can be irritating. I understand. However, given the true nature of the article, ie. the meaning of a word and its relevant variations on the same theme, the information is valid and belongs in place, due to its correct context. It is not for us to judge or decide what is or is not relevant because we "Feel" it does not enhance "our" site. The information is a useful addition to the entry, and should stay for that reason. Again, apologies to those who feel offended. It is not my intention to tread on toes or upset those of a sensitive nature.

STEALTH RANGER 09:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

 * It's about the concept of jury rig; adding other stuff bloats the article. It is for every editor to try and reach consensus on what enhances or detracts from the page, and stuff that doesn't enhance the page shouldn't be added.--Prosfilaes 14:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

We feel it does in fact add to an overall understanding of the term, and allow people the opportunity to make a comparative examination of similar and relevant terms in order to expand said understanding. For example, somebody wondering about "jerry built" may find their way to the site and realise that "jury rig" isn't the same thing. Similarly, people reading the article may find the "Heath Robinson/Rube Goldberg" reference explanatory, as a term often heard but never understood until pointed in the right direction. When things are linked- unless said link is completely tenuous- these connections deserve to be shown; and Wiki readers desrve to be informed. Its removal demonstrates the worst kind of closed mind "If I didn't say it, it can't be true! stop spoiling my page!!". Such an outlook increases the criticism of Wiki pages as being a 'Fanboy Club' wherein the writers will cling to their opinions regardless of the input of others. The inability to expand and evolve will ulitimately bring about it's own extinction. A tragedy in the making. Consider this, before denying readers the chance to make connections and expand their own understanding, please.

STEALTH RANGER 10:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

 * If they wonder about "jerry built", they'll go to that page. Please read WP:AGF; your arguments are discouraging people from trying to achieve consensus with you. I didn't write this page, but I still think your changes are not an improvement.--Prosfilaes 10:54, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm traveling at the moment and my computer access is somewhat limited, but I'll chime-in here since, apparently, I'm the alleged watchman/fanboy. :)   STEALTH RANGER, I'm sorry I may have caused offense by my move of your work from the article to the talk page.  Mainly I was acting on a sense that "general information" sections (e.g. Trivia, Additional information, etc.) rarely are good for articles.  Take a look at the WP guidline on why Trivia sections should be avoided.  The information you added is informative and potentially useful, but I just thought some of it is probably more appropriate for articles closer to the subject matter.  Since interlinking is so easy, I think it really does make sense to try to keep articles reasonably well-focused on their specific subject. I moved the information here to spur a discussion regarding which information does make sense to integrate into the rest of the article.  I still stand by my comments above regarding the specifics.  I think some of it can be integrated, but some of the links probably belong in the "See also" section.   As I said above, the lead of the article needs expansion and clarification.  I think that brief allusions to other articles and similar concepts could help put this article in context.  And, as you said, it might help users who have arrived on this page but are really looking for something related.  --Dfred (talk) 14:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Jerry Rigging
I don't feel like looking up a good source to cite, but I'm pretty sure the "Jerry Rigging" variation on this term actually originates from a skit Jerry Lewis would do, named after himself, where he would jury rig various things in comic fashion. --TheCynic 20:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Two paragraphs that purport to trace the derivation of "Jerry Rigging" (last paragraph under Rigging and the third item under Similar phrases) seem to be in conflict: They offer similar derivations, and one of them terms the history "folk etymology" while the other does not. Neither paragraph cites any sources. --96.251.93.152 (talk) 01:06, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Jheri-rigged
The cited source (Word Court) for "jerry-rigged" being a misspelling of the alleged racial slur "jheri-rigged" actually makes no mention of such a misspelling, or of any such term as "jheri-rigged." It does mention the possibility of "jerry-rigged" being a WWII-era slur against Germans, but dismisses this as etymologically unfounded (the phrase actually appears to be merely a conflation of "jury-rigged" and "jerry-built," a term that well pre-dates the World Wars). So I'm going to remove the part about "jerry-rigged" being any kind of slur unless someone can provide an actual citation for the usage. (the term "n*****-rigged" is another question, and one I'm not proposing to address here).65.87.176.9 (talk) 13:20, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, I see that someone actually replaced the originally correct summary of the Word Court citation with the sentence about "jheri-rigged" without providing a new citation, and am reverting that edit.65.87.176.9 (talk) 15:35, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Afro Engineering
I changed the wording from "slightly more polite/politically correct version.." to "sarcastically polite/politically correct version..." because "afro-engineering" is clearly as offensive as "n***er rig", as the meaning is preserved, despite the language change...though I don't know if the term needs to be included at all. It seems this section on racial slangs was added not to provide a wider understanding of the concept, but by an individual who found it humourous in a way more appropriate to urbandictionary.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.141.61.254 (talk) 05:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Someone removed that definition. I restored it in its full version, but tried to be as fair and as impartial as possible. Bill (talk) 21:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I removed the unnecessary racist term and it revered accidentally. If I see it again, I'll remove it again.  Mr  JM  02:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I put a comment in here but totally missed the whole racial epithet discussion above and removed it. Doh.  nezZario (talk) 21:21, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

"Connotations" suggests that the terms are not literally and inherently racist. This should be changed because it is weaselly and inaccurate. Like-wise with "euphemistic". "Afro-engineering", as the above commenter has said, is clearly as offensive as "nigger". It is not "fair" and "impartial" but a weaselly way to down-play its offensiveness. I have not changed it myself because I am not logged in. 2605:A000:121A:C575:C06A:6FE8:CE33:98A8 (talk) 15:35, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Jury-rig vs. Jerry-rig ?
I would like more information about the differences and similarities between the meanings of the two. --TiagoTiago (talk) 07:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

 * The difference is that "jury-rig" is right and "jerry-rig" is wrong. WP Ludicer (talk) 22:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed :-D. - Onanoff (talk) 20:24, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a forum for soapboxing about prescriptivist notions of "right" and "wrong" English. There is no universal authority on English usage; anything in common-parlance use isn't "wrong", it's simply divergent from an earlier-established usage, and jerry rig is found in most dictionaries of English as a variant of jury rig.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:51, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Jury Rigged and othr slang or inappropriate terms
Acutally all of the terms mentioned above have been common place and it is time to reitre them. The new term from 2010 forward is "Presidential Solution" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.117.204.253 (talk) 14:53, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Similar Phrases
I removed 'gundecking' from the list, because the linked article (and everything else I've ever seen in 31 years of Navy service) indicate that gun decking is falsifying records (generally to claim that you did work you didn't actually do). It is certainly possible that somewhere, some time, someone (maybe even me) has used gundecking to mean repairs of a jury-rigged nature, but without a reference to such, I can't see including it in a list of similar terms, since faking records really isn't very similar to making something work with materials at hand. CruiserBob (talk) 17:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

RM

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian (talk) 09:04, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Jury rig → Jury rigging – Don't we usually have titles in the gerund form? (Running, not Run) Red Slash 04:30, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Support far better title. GregKaye 09:48, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. The current title is awkward and the new one is better. It's also the more common name. Calidum T|C 16:36, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Support better title. Reify-tech (talk) 22:59, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Afro engineering merge
Afro engineering was redirected and here per Talk:Afro engineering. — Godsy (TALK CONT ) 23:59, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Is it worth adding bodge job?
Bodge job is a British English term somewhat similar to jury rigging. It implies something done quickly with whatever was on hand at the time and like jury rigging it's not intended to be a permanent solution but will (hopefully) do until you can make a better version. Growing up in the south of England I often heard the two used interchangeably, and I tend to use bodge job first but substitute jury rigged when talking to an international audience because I'm aware the term isn't as well known in other countries. I didn't want to add it without discussion because I feel like it's borderline trivia, but also equally notable to other similar terms only used in one country, and it might help summarise the article for British speakers not family with the term jury rigged. 86.54.181.194 (talk) 09:57, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Already covered now in the section on similar terms.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:47, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Origins of Jerry Rigged
Please consider some aspects of "Jerry rigged" as an ethnic slur, too. I think you will find that Jerry rigged was popularized, after the defeat of Germany in WWII, relating to the slang "Gerry" used to describe Germans. After the war, "Ger-ry rigged" would have referred to an effort with ineffective outcome.

66.161.34.129 (talk) 12:57, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

 * It just sounds like a conflation of "jerry-built" and "jury-rigged" to me. In any case, sources are required to document a trend or at least make the claim that one existed. WP Ludicer (talk) 18:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The Germans/Jerries idea is a fairly common folk etymology of this; I've encountered it numerous times, and it should probably be covered with some sources.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:36, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

This should be 'Jury rig'
Why is this article 'Jury rigging' and not 'Jury rig'? Surely the plain verb is the key term here? Ngram makes clear that the plain form 'jury rig' is by far the most common. (though interestingly, back in the 19th century, 'jury rigged' and 'jury rigging' each had prominence.) In any case, as a noun, 'jury rig' historically and currently exceeds 'jury rigging', but the action (verb) is key. - Onanoff (talk) 20:36, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * What a strange comment. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Our articles are rarely about words as such; this article in particular is about jury rigging, not the verb 'to jury rig'. In any case, if it's most appropriate to use a verb as a title, we use it in the gerund form so it's syntactically a noun. See WP:NOUN for the relevant guideline. Hairy Dude (talk) 18:01, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Not a "strange" comment, since WP:CONCISE is a policy and just thinking about it in isolation instead of in concert with all the other policies and guidelines might suggest the shorter title. But Hairy Dude is correct about gerunds. E.g., we have an article at Skiing not at "Ski (verb)" (Ski being an article on the sporting-goods item). See also all the other articles on activites of various sorts (good, bad, or indifferent) that have a verbal base to their name, like Rock climbing and Stalking and so on. Sometimes these are better named and focused on those who do the activity, like Hacker, but "jury-rigger" isn't really that sort of term.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Move non-nautical stuff?
This this article seems to be trying rather hard to stick to the nautical meaning and origins of this term, I wonder whether the general-concept material, including all the equivalent-term coverage, and a lot of the see-also items, couldn't be moved to Kludge, and have that serve as the "central hub" on WP for the concept, instead of it being shoehorned into the Jury rigging article. Various redirects like Afro engineering would also need re-targeting, as well as cross-references to the terminology section from other articles (in "See also" and otherwise), like Jugaad, etc.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:34, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The term jury rigging does not have the same negative connotations as kludge; a patch can be elegant, but a kludge never is. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 14:06, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

WP:NOTDICTIONARY
The etymology section and the similar terms section both violate WP:NOTDICTIONARY. Most of the see also section also violates it. See WP:DICDEF and WP:ISAWORDFOR. This article does not meet WP:WORDISSUBJECT. The non-encyclopedic content should be moved to Wiktionary and be referenced with WP:POINTWIKT. 184.146.170.127 (talk) 08:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jury rigging


text:
Talk:The Nieman Foundation for Journalism

Added as an entry to explain an element of the Howard Simons biography. Simons was a key figure in Watergate, and another curator (Archibald MacLeish) is a well-known journalist who went on to head the Library of Congress. Jokestress 01:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)


text:
Free solo climbing

Free solo climbing, or free soloing, is a form of rock climbing where the climbers (or free soloists) climb solo (or alone) without ropes or other protective equipment, using only their climbing shoes and their climbing chalk. Free soloing is the most dangerous form of climbing, and, unlike bouldering, free soloists climb above safe heights, where a fall can be fatal. Though many climbers have free soloed climbing grades they are very comfortable on, only a tiny group free solo regularly, and at grades closer to the limit of their abilities.

Some climbers' profiles have been increased by free soloing (e.g. Alex Honnold and John Bachar), but some question the ethics of this, and whether the risks they are undertaking should be encouraged and commercially rewarded. "Free solo" was originally a term of climber slang, but after the popularity of the Oscar-winning film Free Solo, Merriam-Webster officially added the word to their English dictionary in September 2019.

In addition to free soloing on single-pitch and multi-pitch rock climbs, including the even longer big wall climbing that features in the Free Solo film, free soloing is performed in a wide range of climbing types including, ice climbing and mixed climbing (which feature in The Alpinist film), as well as setting speed climbing records on alpine climbing routes (i.e. a mixture of rock and ice climbing), which features in the Race to the Summit film.

Description
Free solo climbing (sometimes referred to as soloing in the UK, or third-classing in the US), is where the climber uses no climbing protection whatsoever (and as with all free climbing, no form of climbing aid is used either); they may only use their climbing shoes and climbing chalk to ascend a single-pitch, or a multi-pitch/big wall climbing route. Free solo climbing is a special form of free climbing but is different from the main forms of free climbing, sport climbing and traditional climbing, which use climbing protection for safety. In theory bouldering is also free solo climbing (i.e. it also uses no aid or protection) but is usually not referred to as such except in the case of Highball bouldering, where falls can be serious. The most committing forms of free soloing are on multi-pitch – and the even longer big wall – routes, where any retreat is very difficult.

In alpine climbing the term solo climbing – as distinct from free solo climbing – can be used where the solo climber carries a rope and some aid climbing equipment to overcome some of the most difficult sections. In addition, the term rope soloing is used for any solo climber who uses a rope and a form of self-locking device for continuous climbing protection on the route; this is also not considered as free solo climbing.

Many early 20th-century rock climbers who began to free climb (i.e., avoiding any form of aid), were often practicing free solo climbing (or rope soloing), as the effectiveness of their climbing protection (usually a rope around their waist) was minimal. In the history of rock climbing, the first ascent of Napes Needle by W. P. Haskett Smith in June 1886 – an act that is widely considered to be the start of the sport of rock climbing – was effectively a free solo. Early leaders of free climbing such as Paul Preuss, were also strongly interested in free solo climbing as being ethically purer. The 1958 ascent by Don Whillans of Goliath, one of the world's first E4 6a routes, was effectively a free solo (with a rope around his waist). By the 1970s, when climbing protection was sufficiently developed to be effective, the discipline of free solo climbing began to stand apart.

Public view
Many climbers praise free soloing, while others have concerns regarding the danger and the message the ascents send to other climbers. Many companies have taken these views into account when working with free soloists. Clif Bar, the nutrition bar company with long ties to climbing, dropped the sponsorship of five climbers in 2014, citing the risks they take and stirring a debate about how much risk should be rewarded.

However, The North Face and Red Bull have promoted free soloists and helped the free soloing community grow. In addition, Alex Honnold, a free soloist who was previously dropped by Clif Bar, was featured in the 2018 documentary Free Solo, which was met with critical acclaim and won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. The director of Free Solo, Jimmy Chin, talks in the film about the ethics of undertaking the documentary, and the effect that his film team and project could have had on the outcome.

Even in the climbing community, free soloing is controversial. In 2022, when Climbing did a feature on free soloing, they caveated all articles with: "This article is not an endorsement of the practice", and emphasized that in their research amongst climbers, it was only practiced by a very small minority, with many telling Climbing: "I have in the past but not anymore".

In 2022, climbing author and occasional free soloist Jeff Smoot wrote All and Nothing: Inside Free Soloing, which explored through interviews why some rock climbers free solo, including analyzing his own motivations. He described the feeling of self-control over one's fears as a form of addiction that had brought benefits to his life outside of climbing. He also found a wider range of motivations than he expected telling The Seattle Times, "Are free soloists crazy? They may be. Are they crazier than anybody else? I don’t think so, just in a different way".

Notable climbers
While many rock climbers have free soloed routes (single-pitch or big wall/multi-pitch), at climbing grades well below their ability, a very small minority have practiced free soloing regularly, and at grades closer to their overall limits. The most prominent of this smaller group are those who have broken new grade milestones in free solo climbing and gained a significant profile from their soloing:

In addition, several other free solo practitioners are considered historically notable in free solo climbing and include the following: Patrick Edlinger, Ron Fawcett, Christophe Profit, Brad Gobright, Dan Goodwin, Colin Haley, Derek Hersey, Jimmy Jewell, John Long, Dave MacLeod, Dan Osman, Dean Potter, Paul Preuss, and Tobin Sorenson.
 * Alex Honnold – the most prolific and well-known free soloist of the 21st century, whose 2017 free solo of the route  Freerider on El Capitan became the iconic film, Free Solo.
 * Hansjörg Auer – the prolific big wall and high-altitude big wall free soloist, whose 2007 free solo of Fish Route was then the most daring in climbing history.
 * Michael Reardon – prolific free soloist whose 2005 free solo of Romantic Warrior won him National Geographic's "Adventurer of the Year".
 * Alexander Huber – one of the strongest rock climbers of the 1990s who set free solo grade milestones in single-pitch free soloing (with Kommunist), and big wall free soling (with the Brandler-Hasse Direttissima).
 * Alain Robert – the early 1990s and 2000s pioneer of buildering, but who also broke important new free solo grade milestones in the 1990s.
 * Wolfgang Güllich – one of the strongest rock climbers of the late 1980s who set free solo milestones (Weed Killer), and did the iconic solo of Separate Reality.
 * Catherine Destivelle – a leading female climber of the late 1980s, who made iconic free solos in single-pitch (El Matador), and big wall (Bonatti Pillar).
 * Patrick Edlinger – a leading European free soloist of the 1980s, with iconic big wall free solos in the Verdon Gorge and Buoux, as featured in the 1982 climbing film, La Vie au bout des doigts.
 * Antoine Le Menestrel – prolific free soloist whose 1985 free solo of Revelations jumped several grade milestones in free solo climbing.
 * Peter Croft – a prolific Canadian free soloist of the 1980s, who pioneered big wall free soloing with The Rostrum and Astroman.
 * John Bachar – first free solo "superstar" and prolific American soloist of the late 1970s/early 1980s, who pioneered big wall soloing (Nabisco Wall).

Free soloing is less common amongst female rock climbers, however, as well as Catherine Destivelle, the following female climbers are historically notable free solo practitioners: Steph Davis and Brette Harrington, both of whom have free soloed single-pitch and big wall routes.

Single-pitch routes

 * 2019 : Relatively unknown Italian climber Alfredo Webber, aged 52, free soloed Panem et Circenses in Arco, Italy, first-ever free solo of an.

 * 2004 : Alexander Huber free soloed Kommunist in the Tyrol, Austria; the first-ever free solo at grade.

 * 1993 : Alain Robert free soloed Compilation in Omblèze, France; the first-ever free solo of an graded route.

 * 1987 : Jean-Christophe Lafaille free soloed Rêve de gosse, at La Roche-des-Arnauds, France; considered the first-ever free solo at the grade of.

 * 1986 : Wolfgang Güllich free soloed Weed Killer, at Raven Tor, in the Peak District, first-ever free solo at ; that same year, Gullich also did the iconic solo of Separate Reality.

 * 1985 : Antoine Le Menestrel free soloed Revelations, at Raven Tor, Peak District, the first-ever free solo at ; considered a feat that was a decade ahead of its time.

 * 1982 : John Bachar free soloed Baby Apes, at Joshua Tree National Park, probably the first-ever free solo at.

 * 1961 : John Gill free soloed—onsight—the first ascent of Thimble, the first-ever redpoint, and thus the first-ever free solo, at.

Big wall, multi-pitch routes

 * 2017 : Alex Honnold free soloed El Capitan via Freerider, first-ever big wall solo at ; becomes Oscar-winning film, Free Solo).
 * 2007 : Hansjörg Auer free soloed Fish Route, on Marmolada, in the Dolomites, Italy, first-ever big wall solo at (35-pitches).

 * 2005 : Michael Reardon free soloed, onsight, Romantic Warrior in the Sierra Nevada, USA, first-ever big wall solo at (10-pitches); wins National Geographic "Adventurer of the Year".

 * 2002 : Alexander Huber free soloed, the 1,500 ft Hasse-Brandler on the Cima Grande, Dolomites, first-ever big wall solo at.

Climber fatalities
A number of notable free solo practitioners have died while free soloing:
 * Paul Preuss (3 October 1913; age 27) died in 300 m fall from the attempted first ascent of the North Ridge of the Mandlkogel (in the Gosaukamm) as a free solo.
 * Jimmy Jewell died (31 October 1987; age 34) free soloing the easy route Poor Man's Peuterey (graded UK-Severe) at Tremadog, North Wales taking a short-cut.
 * Derek Hersey died (28 May 1993; age 36) while free soloing the Steck-Salathé Route on Sentinel Rock in Yosemite.
 * Dwight Bishop fell (19 July 2004; age 49) while climbing alone and unroped along the Grand Traverse route on Grand Teton peak in Wyoming.
 * John Bachar died (5 July 2009; age 52) in a free solo accident at Dike Wall near Mammoth Lakes, California.
 * Michael J. Ybarra died (July 2012; age 45) climbing solo on The Matterhorn Peak in California's Sierra Nevada Mountains.

Climbing magazine reported that a number of prominent free solo practitioners died in related or other extreme sports, including: Dan Osman (died at age 35 while rope jumping at Yosemite), Michael Reardon (died age 42 while rock climbing sea cliffs when he was carried out to sea by a rogue wave), Dean Potter (died age 43 while wingsuit flying when he crashed at Yosemite), Brad Gobright (died age 31 while abseiling at Potrero Chico), and Hansjorg Auer (died age 35 in an avalanche at Howse Peak).

Related disciplines

 * Alpine speed solo climbing: Some leading alpine climbers have set speed climbing records on classic alpine climbing routes – particularly the six great north faces of the Alps – that are done as free solos as using ropes and other protection would take too long. Notable alpine free solo speed climbers include Ueli Steck and Dani Arnold, whose rivalry was featured in the 2021 film, Race to the Summit.
 * Buildering: Some free soloists scale buildings, such as Alain Robert ("The French Spider-Man"), and Dan Goodwin ("Skyscraperman"), who have scaled dozens of skyscrapers around the world—a sport known as buildering—without any safety equipment.
 * Deep-water soloing (DWS), is a subtype of free solo climbing performed on rock faces overhanging water where in the case of a fall, the climber lands in the water. Deep-water routes can involve falls of 20-40 m, and thus a risk of serious injury.  Noted DWS climbers include Chris Sharma.
 * FreeBASEing, is a subtype of free solo climbing performed on long multi-pitch big wall routes with a BASE jumping parachute as the sole means of protection. A falling climber opens their parachute to arrest their fall. It was pioneered by Dean Potter.
 * Highball bouldering, is where the boulder exceeds 7-10 m in height, and any fall, even where bouldering mats are used, presents a risk of serious injury. Where highball bouldering ends and free soloing begins is a source of debate.
 * Ice climbing: Some ice climbers are notable for ice free soloing, as well as mixed free soloing. As well as the specific risks of free soloing, ice-free soloing brings the additional serious and unpredictable risk of parts of the ice route spontaneously breaking off.  Notable ice-free soloists include the late Marc-André Leclerc, whose free solo ice climbing on the Stanley Headwall features in the 2021 film, The Alpinist, and Dani Arnold.

In film
A number of notable films have been made focused on free solo climbing (both on rock and on ice) including:
 * Race to the Summit, a 2023 documentary film about the rivalry between Ueli Steck and Dani Arnold in setting solo alpine speed records.
 * The Alpinist, a 2021 documentary film about the late Canadian alpinist Marc-André Leclerc, featuring various free solo ice and alpine ascents.
 * Free Solo, a 2018 Netflix documentary film about Alex Honnold's free solo climb of Freerider on El Capitan.
 * King Lines, a 2007 documentary film about Chris Sharma, featuring his free solo climb of the DWS route, Es Pontàs, in Mallorca.
 * Hard Grit, a 1998 documentary film about rock climbing on gritstone routes in the British Peak District, which features free soloing.

title: Free solo climbing


text:
The Statutes at Large

The Statutes at Large is the name given to published collections or series of legislative Acts in a number of jurisdictions.

The expression "statutes at large" was first used in the edition of Barker published in 1587.

England and Great Britain

 * The Statutes at Large:
 * Edition by Owen Ruffhead, from "Magna Charta" down to the Acts of 4 Geo. 3: 9 volumes, London. "Printed for Mark Basket, Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty, and by the Assigns of Robert Basket; And by Henry Woodfall and William Strahan, Law Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty", 1763–1765.
 * Continuation of Ruffhead's edition, down to the Acts of 25 Geo. 3: 5 volumes, London. (Vols. 10–13) "Printed for Charles Eyre and William Strahan, Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty; And by W. Strahan and M. Woodfall, Law Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty", 1771–1780. (Vol. 14) "Printed by Charles Eyre and the Executors of William Strahan, Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty; And by W. Woodfall and the Executors of W. Strahan, Law Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty", 1786.
 * Republication of Ruffhead's edition, edited by Charles Runnington, down to the Acts of 25 Geo. 3: 10 volumes, London. "Printed by Charles Eyre and Andrew Strahan, Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty; And by William Woodfall and Andrew Strahan, Law Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty", 1786.
 * Continuation of Runnington's edition, down to 1800: 4 volumes, London. (Vols. 11 and 12) "Printed by Charles Eyre and Andrew Strahan, Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty; And by Andrew Strahan and William Woodfall, Law Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty", 1789–1794. (Vols. 13 and 14) "Printed by George Eyre and Andrew Strahan, Printers to the King's Most Excellent Majesty; And by Andrew Strahan, Law Printer to the King's Most Excellent Majesty", 1798–1800.
 * The Statutes at Large, from Magna Charta to the End of the Eleventh Parliament of Great Britain, Anno 1761:
 * Edition by Danby Pickering, down to the Acts of 1 Geo. 3: 24 volumes, Cambridge. "Printed by Joseph Bentham, Printer to the University; for Charles Bathurst, at the Cross-Keys, opposite St Dunstan's Church in Fleet-Street, London", 1762–1766.
 * Continuation, from the Acts of 2 Geo. 3: 11 volumes, Cambridge. (Vols. 25–26) "Printed by Joseph Bentham (subsequently by John Archdeacon), Printer to the University; for Charles Bathurst, at the Cross-Keys, opposite St.Dunstan's Church in Fleet-Street, London", 1763–1764. (Vols. 27–35) "Printed by John Archdeacon, Printer to the University; for Charles Bathurst, at the Cross-Keys, opposite St.Dunstan's Church in Fleet-Street, London", 1767–1786. (Vols. 36–46) imprint varies, 1787–1807.

United States

 * United States Statutes at Large, an official annual publication of all Acts of Congress

title: The Statutes at Large


text:
Talk:Irving Kaplan (government official)

Untitled
Articles on Perlo group and Silvermaster group have yet to be created. And a few other articles also will be written to tie in significance (post war German government, history of Soviet espionage etc). Thank you. Nobs01 01:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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text:
Talk:Sirenomelia

Survivors
I was just reading up on Sirenomelia and apparently, there are three known survivors of Sirenomelia. I searched the internet and was unable to find out who the other person is (not including tiffany yorks, and Milagaros Cerrón). This statement of three survivors was found and verified in many esteemed sources, to include a few MSNBC and WOW. The third survivor is supposedly "living somewhere in Asia." Guthrie 14:20, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Mermaid merge
Perhaps this topic should go under "mermaid". It's a small article to begin with... What do you wikipedians think? —DaemonDivinus 04:37, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's a good idea. This one is a serious topic. How would you feel if you had a rare illness and its Wikipedia article were slumped together with that of some mythological creature? -- Alensha 22:15, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur. Bubbleboys 23:26, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

CRS
Caudal regression syndrome under the See Also section redirects to this page. I suggest it be removed until an article is written.
 * Might be better to remove the redirect from CRS to this page. Jeffr 17:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * FWIW my medical dictionary has "caudal regression syndrome" also known as "caudal dysplasia syndrome" also known as "sacral agenesis."--209.7.195.158 21:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * They are, I am fairly sure, all the same syndrome.Didymus

There was just a case in China
Boy with mermaid's syndrome abandoned. I think Milagros Ceran's case warrants its own page, because survival is so rare, and each case so different, that each one is a unique story that ought to be told separately. ChristinaDunigan 05:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That link doesn't work anymore. News sites that delete articles are DETESTED. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 05:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Article merged, see old talk-page Talk:Milagros Cerrón. -Unsigned

Preparate picture
I'm not sure that the pickled baby picture is necessary, as we have another picture of a live baby and do not need two pictures - the pickled picture does not add anything to the article, but does distract people from the condition itself.
 * I'm not sure whether it distracts from the condition itself or not but removing it is probably advisable. Normally pathology museums (in the UK at least) are NOT open to the public but only to those with a specific need to visit them, either for education or research. 86.146.166.223 02:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)MFO

Citation for syringomyelia being associated with maternal diabetes
I also learned in my pediatric residency that syringomyelia (also called caudal regression syndrome) is associated with maternal diabetes. In other words, if the mother has diabetes while she is pregnant, most likely, the baby will still be normal, but this is one of the rare congenital defects that may arise in this condition. I have never seen it. I learned this from a manual for pediatric residents put forth by the Neonatology Department at Baylor Children's Hospital. I have not been able to find this association in any textbook or description of this condition since then. So, for what it's worth, this association is mentioned in one resident manual from Baylor--I would be interested if anyone else found a more reliable source as a reference. Has anyone seen a case associated with maternal diabetes?

Also, ordinary gestational diabetes which is well controlled should not give you congenital defects in the offspring, much less this one. This sort of defect is usually associated with a mother with severe uncontrolled diabetes mellitus which she had before pregnancy, aside from the other cases which come sporadically or due to some other unknown genetic cause.Beezer137 22:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)Beezer137

I Have CRS
It is not always "mermaid" like, I was born with two legs. They should definitely put up an article about the other types of caudal regression syndrome instead of this redirection. I have two legs, no motor activity from the knee down, limited flexibility of ankles & toes, missing sacrum & coccyx (sacral agenesis), etc. Dinosaur bones 07:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Dinosaur bones. My daughter has CRS...she has some of the problems but certainly has nothing like the extreme Sienomelia symptoms. In fact, Sienomelia was formerly considered an extreme type of CRS, but is now separately classified.  It isn't approprial for 'Caudal Regression Syndrome' to redirect to this disorder. After I made a quick CRS page I realized there was a page for sacral agenesis...I will link them but I think the articles might be merged, but CRS is the more commonly used term so I think they should be merged under that name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dantesothoth (talk • contribs) 01:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Great spelling, liar. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 05:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Changed it a little
Hi^^ I changed "disorder" at the beginning to "congential deformity" because it's more specific. I also provided a link. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by OtakuNOVAkun (talk • contribs) 05:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

VACTERL association
My daughter, Rebecca Nicole Miller, was stillborn February 18, 2002. Before her birth, we were told that she had Potter syndrome (aka Renal agenesis). After she was born, the doctors determined that she had Sirenomelia and Goldenhar Syndrome. They mentioned a connection to VACTERL association. Millers2000 23:10, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Conflicting numbers? Just use both?
One page says 1/70,000 another says 1/100,000. This isn't all that different given the difficulty of calculating such a thing in the first place. Why not just mention both references in both articles? Zaphraud 07:16, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The reference says (both pages have the same reference?): "with cyclopia or sirenomelia are born at an approximate rate of 1 in 100,000 births" hence this page is incorrect, and the other is correct. -Unsigned

Third Survivor - Kennebunkport
I'm not sure about a survivor in Asia, but the reason I looked up this page in Wikipedia today was because of an article in my local paper about Shiloh Pepin, an 8 year old survivor in Kennebunkport, ME. Here's the link to the article: http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070802/NEWS/708020394 140.233.11.91 19:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I added her today. Corto 22:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Going to the bathroom
How do these people poop and pee? D-Fluff has had E-Nuff 21:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Picture(s), anybody?
Come on. This article warrants pictures. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 05:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Diabetes link
Yes, I know that in removing the 'citation needed' I used journals from all over the world, and the studies were not of the incidence, but the facts required by the call for citation are there, at least in reference. The journals I found that had firm data about the connection information were not available on line except by paying. --Dumarest (talk) 19:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Oprah
Wasn't there an Oprah show where they referred to a girl who couldn't feel pain as having "Mermaid Syndrome"? Whats the deal with that? Don't worry, it was a poorly written article I got that from, and now I see its just confusingly put together.24.65.95.239 (talk) 03:08, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

 * That was about Shiloh Pepin. A mention of the publicity she received, including Oprah, is currently not in the article but can be added if someone finds reliable sources.24.190.34.219 (talk) 15:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Documentary
I just watched a documentary about a girl with this syndrome, I forget the title but it showed a lady swirling her around in a pool. She has stomas with an intestinal bag so she got a specialized wetsuit to wear so she could swim in public pools. It discusses things like if she wanted to undergo surgery to divide the legs, things like that. Something like this is notable enough to mention in this article. I can't remember the name of the girl or anything though, maybe she's already mentioned? Either way, mentioning the documentary and the channel it was on would be valuable here, as I think it publicized a rare condition. Tyciol (talk) 19:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Gender
I can't see any intrinsic reason that this couldn't occur in males but so far every mention here or in the article is  of a female. If the condition is (much?) more likely in females the article should note that. Robert Brockway (talk) 05:14, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I have had a Sirenomelia baby in 2000, and HE had two internal testicles, so yes it can occur in males. Shaunelle Baker

Why does Shiloh Pepin's name re-direct to this page?
I think it's a bit offensive that when you click on Shiloh Pepin's name, it redirects to the Sirenomelia page. It's certainly what she's known for publicly, and the curious are going to be interested in her disorder foremost, but I would be upset if my name were synonymous with my disability in my encyclopedia entry.

Can the hotlink on her name just be removed? Or is there some other point to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.132.234 (talk) 04:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Someone has, rightfully, corrected to re-direct to jump to the section of the article about her rather than simply the article itself. She isn't notable enough to have her own article and people may be searching for her, so this is probably the best option.24.190.34.219 (talk) 15:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Picture of stillborn foetus
I think this picture is too much. I wasn't expecting to see a stillborn foetus when I came to this article, and I find it deeply disturbing. The only other place I've seen a stillborn foetus is on a shock-site. Totally inappropriate. Conor Ó Brádaigh (talk) 07:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It is used to illustrate a point. Also, there are policies against censorship. This came out of a fear awhile back that Wikipedia was turning into a pornography site (in some ways it is, just look at Commons), and the discussion was to keep things as is, with the user being the one who could take full responsibility of what they saw. I also doubt we have any free images of these women floating around. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 15:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It wasn't my intention to shock anyone. I believe that the article about this syndrome is the only place where the photograph of an affected fetus is appropriate, and one should expect that this article may be illustrated. Personally I think that there are much more disturbing images at Commons. Filip em (talk) 16:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes, the picture is too shocking. Doctors take an oath that includes a promise to shield the public from the horrors they are forced to deal with in their professions. It is therefore not a fringe belief that the average person shouldn't have to see such things unless they seek them out. Children come here, and they are likely to look up "mermaid". The "no censorship" concept doesn't give Wikipedia carte blanche. There are judgment and prudence and consideraton and a million other concepts just as valid and valuable as "no censorship". The picture should go. --68.44.93.68 (talk) 20:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that we should take up this discussion elsewhere. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:46, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Picture deleted due to me having actual convulsions upon seeing it. It's not necessary to display pickled fetuses, you bastards. That was someone's lost child. 76.68.37.23 (talk) 23:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

 * "Doctors take an oath that includes a promise to shield the public from the horrors they are forced to deal with in their professions. " I have not seen the image so I have no opinion on it, but the quoted statement is deeply wrong. Doctors make no such oath. I have checked with a UK GP who verified this. I do not know about the US, but this link about US medical oaths and duties does not mention any such oath: http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/doctor-patient-confidentiality  Furthermore, I guess you've never been friends with medical people of the same age as you. They *love* telling gory stories - the worse the better.  RedTomato (talk) 18:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I find it refreshing to actually see a picture of a baby affected with Sirenomelia, it is almost identical to how my baby looked. Im sure foetus is more appropriate but to myself it was a baby, my baby. Of all places a picture such as the above mentioned, would be appropriate is here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaunellebaker (talk • contribs) 12:03, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions for re-wording
The section on Shiloh Pepin reads "Shiloh was the only one of the three survivors of sirenomelia without surgery for separation of the conjoined legs." As the section makes clear, Shiloh sadly died in 2009, therefore cannot be counted as "a survivor". Any suggestions for re-wording? Tonywalton Talk 21:52, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps something like, "Shiloh was one of only three documented cases of children born with sirenomelia to have survived past babyhood without surgery for separation of the conjoined legs." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.64.45 (talk) 15:22, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sirenomelia


text:
The Long Ships (film)

The Long Ships is a 1964 Anglo–Yugoslav adventure film shot in Technirama directed by Jack Cardiff and starring Richard Widmark, Sidney Poitier, Russ Tamblyn and Rosanna Schiaffino.

Plot
The story centres on an immense golden bell named the Mother of Voices, which may or may not exist. Moorish king Aly Mansuh is convinced that it does. Having collected all the legendary material about it that he can, he plans to mount an expedition to search for it. When a shipwrecked Norseman, Rolfe, repeats the story of the bell in the marketplace, and hints that he knows its location, he is seized by Mansuh's men and brought in for questioning. Rolfe insists that he does not know more than the legend itself and that the bell is most likely only a myth. He manages to escape by jumping through a window before the questioning continues under torture.

After swimming back to return home, Rolfe reveals to his father Krok and his brother Orm that he did indeed hear the bell pealing on the night his ship was wrecked in Africa. However, Rolfe's father has been made destitute after spending a fortune building a funeral ship for the Danish king, Harald Bluetooth, who then refuses to reimburse him by citing an outstanding debt. Rationalising that the ship does not yet belong to Harald (since he is still living), Rolfe and Orm not only steal the ship, but hire a number of inebriated Vikings to serve as its crew. In order to prevent Harald from killing his father in revenge for the theft, he also takes the king's daughter as a hostage. Harald declares that he will summon every longship he can find and rescue her.

Since the ship was intended as a funeral ship, the crew begins to get superstitious and demands to return home. Rolfe asks the ship's captain what's the way to sway the bad luck off them, and he states that a maiden must be sacrificed to the gods. He pretends to do so (he kills a sheep instead) and later reveals the trick to Orm. After prolonged difficulties at sea, the ship is damaged in a maelstrom, and the Norse are cast ashore in a Moorish shore. After getting attacked and captured by the Moors, the Norse are condemned to execution, where Mansuh reencounters Rolfe and again demands to know where the Mother of Voices is. Mansuh's favourite wife Aminah convinces her husband to use them and their longship to retrieve the bell. After they sail to the Pillars of Hercules, Rolfe and Mansuh find only a domed chapel with a small bronze bell where the Viking was certain he had heard the Mother of Voices. Frustrated, Rolfe throws the hanging bell against a wall, and the resounding cacophony reveals that the chapel dome itself is the disguised Mother of Voices.

After a costly misadventure topples the Mother of Voices from its clifftop down to the sea, the expedition finally returns to the Moorish city, Aly Mansuh triumphantly riding through the streets with the bell in tow. However, King Harald and his men, including Krok, out to rescue the princess, have since conquered the city, and upon Aly Mansuh's arrival they leap out of hiding. The climactic battle ensues, and ends when the bell falls over and crushes Aly Mansuh; the Moors are defeated and the Vikings victorious. The film ends with Rolfe trying his best to persuade King Harald to mount another expedition for the "three crowns of the Saxon kings", much to Krok's amusement.

Background
The film was very loosely based on the two volume Swedish novel The Long Ships (1941 and 1945) by Frans G. Bengtsson, retaining little more than the title (of the English translation) and the Moorish settings of Orm's first voyage. Although the protagonist is named Rolfe, the film was released in Sweden with the title Röde Orm och de långa skeppen (Red Orm and the Long Ships), in a further attempt to exploit the popularity of the novel. It was also intended to capitalise on the success of recent Viking and Moorish dramas such as The Vikings (1958) and El Cid (1961) and was later followed by Alfred the Great (1969).

Production
Bruce Geller wrote the first draft of the script. Irving Allen announced he would make it for a budget of £2 million (US$5.6 million).

The film was originally meant to be directed by José Ferrer, who had made The Cockleshell Heroes for Irwin Allen. Ferrer said he was looking for "a Burt Lancaster type and a Tony Curtis type and two girls" for the lead. He was not intending to act in the film. However, Ferrer dropped out and was replaced by Jack Cardiff; Richard Widmark was signed to star.

The film was to be shot in Yugoslavia. George Peppard claimed he turned down a lead role despite a fee of $200,000 because he did not want to spend six months in that country.

"It is obvious that Tito's government is anxious to see more and more foreign filmmakers come to Yugoslavia", said Allen. "And of course it is also in the best interests of the American and British governments to encourage anything that improves Yugoslavia's financial independence from the Soviet bloc. I'm sure Belgrade will soon catch up with London and Rome."

Filming took place on Avala Hill.

The American Legion condemned the production of the film – along with another Hollywood financed film shot in Yugoslavia, Lancelot and Guinevere – as "immoral, deceptive, unethical and detrimental to the best interests of the United States and the free world."

"It wasn't a happy time", said Widmark of the shoot.

Reception
The film performed very well in the United Kingdom, grossing $840,000. It was among the ten most popular films of the year at the British box office in 1964.

In the US and Canada it earned rentals of $1,930,000.

Awards

 * Nominee Best Costume Design – BAFTA (Anthony Mendleson)

title: The Long Ships (film)