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Talk:Intelligent design/Archive 8

Methodology
Advocates of ID propose a methodology of addressing this dispute. They say to start with the observed facts, and then try to make sense of them. If you see giant statues, think "sculptor". If you see orderly rows of scratches on the Rosetta Stone, think "dead language". Faced with what they call "Irreducible complexity", they hypothesize a designer.

(I think we all agree that the above is a fair statement of ID's purpose and methods. If not, the following is premature.)

ID is such a big deal for its opponents for several reasons:
 * it looks like a patently underhanded way of sneaking Creationism into the public school curriculum
 * it does not qualify as a bona fide "hypothesis" (a) because there's no way to falsify it; (b) because supernatural causes are "off limits", i.e., science should only study the natural world
 * it undermines advocacy for atheism

I have yet to be convinced that Wikipedia covers the latter three bullet points adequately in ANY article. So like it or not, I think we'll have to re-hash here a lot of the stuff that was supposedly "covered in much greater detail, accuracy, and npov style on the Creation and evolution in public education page."

ID is just different enough from mainstream creationism that it demands (or at least hopes for!) different treatment. It wants to be a "third player" in the game.

Formerly, the battle was a "one thing or another" issue. Shall we teach our children that God created us 6,000 years ago? Or that we and apes descended from a common ancestor (without God's help)? Recall that still around half of Americans accept the Biblical account given in Genesis as fact. (And I'm not sure how many are willing to accept the fossil record.)

So, it's not as simple as "we already did this for Creationism vs. Evolution". I'm afraid we're going to have to do it all over again for ID. --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 18:12, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * As noted in your explanation of the ID method for addressing the debate and evidence, the methods both sides use to address evidence are markedly different:

 * The Scientific Method:
 * Evidence and phenomena found in reality comprise the facts. What conclusions can we draw from them?

 * The Intelligent Design Method:
 * The evidence leads to only one conclusion. What facts can we find to support it?

 * Because of this, for the Intelligent Design argument the conclusion will always precede the premise, making it a logical fallacy. This too needs to addressed in the article.

 * I've read most of the canon for both sides of the ID debate, and this is the first I've heard of your point "ID is such a big deal for its opponents...(because)it undermines advocacy for atheism." With one or two exceptions, I've yet to see many scientists engaging in the advocacy of atheism or atheism used as justification for denying ID proponents their claims. I'm not saying it doesn't or hasn't happened, but I am saying that it's a) unlikely in that is a non sequitur to their goals, and b) ID proponents are predisposed to make such claims, which means we need to be very skeptical, even more so than usual in such cases. If you can provide sufficient evidence, then we are obligated to include the assertion, of course. But given everything I've read, evidence for claiming an atheist advocacy conspiracy against Intelligent Design pervading science or even mainstream society is pretty weak.--FeloniousMonk 19:41, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Monk,

 * 1) I think you may be confusing "scientific creationism" with "intelligent design". When I started studying so-called "creation science" in 1988 I immediately dismissed it as an attempt to do just what you say ID does: it has picked its preconceived conclusion and is interested only in finding supporting evidence. This is even worse than pseudoscience: it's dogmatism. The little I've learned in the last 5 years about ID appears different to me: an attempt to state creationism's premise as a genuine hypothesis - to be accepted or rejected on an equal basis with evolution by natural selection, i.e., judged by the same rules of evidence.
 * 2) There is considerable evidence that atheistic beliefs inform (or motivate) at least some advocates of naturalistic evolution. I'll dig this up in due course and we can discuss its relevence to the ID article then. Surely we know already that belief in God and Creation is a significant motive for ID proponents. That is, it's a big deal for THEM at least. --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 19:58, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * I wasn't confusing "scientific creationism" with "intelligent design". My original point was that intelligent design, as does any other supernatural intervention that attempts to account for the origin of life or species, weights it's assumptions. Intelligent design's conclusion --that life did not arise randomly and is the result of intervention-- is implicit in it's premise --that life's complexity is evidence of design-- and so is just begging the question. Intelligent design settles on this conclusion without ever accounting for origin of the designer, which it hints may be of natural origin while at the same time excluding at least our life arising by natural random means. This is a contradiction; one cannot rule out complex life arising by natural means while asserting the deus ex machina that brought forth life may indeed by naturalistic.

 * I agree that there's no doubt many evolutionist's influenced by their atheism. But I'm very skeptical of any claims that atheism informs or motivates actual science. Deism/theism or absence of either is a non sequitur in science.--FeloniousMonk 20:00, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't agree with either of you. Starting from a conclusion and trying to find evidence for it (called "dogmatism" above, but I'd rather call it narrowmindedness) doesn't do much harm as long as there are others who start from another conclusion. Narrowmindedness causes you to concentrate on evidence in favor of your opinion and neglecting evidence against it. As long as there are scientists who start from another opinion, they will find the evidence against yours, and no harm is done. To the contrary - since you concentrate on evidence in favor of your opinion, you will find evidence you wouldn't find if you spread your attention farther apart. So, narrowmindedness actually furthers science.

 * Dogmatism, in my opinion, is something more: claiming that your brand of narrowmindedness should be compulsory. This is a mark of pseudoscience. If the dogmatic rule is widely accepted, it hurts science and truth, since everybody will look in the same direction. But: this only regards conclusions, not methods. Not using invalid methods and arguments should be compulsory. --Hob Gadling 10:53, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with the distinction Hob has made between what we might call "constructive narrow-mindedness" and the "pseudo-scientific" compulsory sort. If I understand him correctly, he and I agree that there is no harm in trying to prove one's point; looking for proof is actually good. And I think we also agree that the mark of pseudoscience is the refusal to consider contrary evidence.

 * I personally consider "creation science" to be pseudoscientific -- not because they are trying to prove God made man, but because they deliberately refuse to consider any evidence to the contrary.

 * I'd like to see an even-handed evaluation of (1) the theory of evolution, (2) intelligent design and (3) creationism, which explains the methodology of each theory's supporters and critics in terms of their willingness to consider contrary evidence. --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 15:50, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * this is all excellent thinking -- thanks for articulating such a great idea, Hob. I like the idea of drawing the distinction out on the page too, with the proviso that we maintain npov with respect to creationists -- certainly some of them are dogmatic and just out to prove their religion ... but i'd like to think some of us are persuaded by the evidence (however skewed our view of the evidence may be).  also, we could point out that while evolutionists think ID is "stealth creationism," most dogmatic creationists criticize ID for not being dogmatic enough:).  quotes or summaries of all the appropriate povs would make for an excellent subsection, i think.  Ungtss 16:28, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * By explicitly outlining the various methodological distinctions of the participants in the debate, then we will also be bringing up their logic and reasoning for adhering to their respective methodologies, and hence that logic's validity. Considering the shaky ground some the logic stands on, I'm concerned that this may be become an area and source of constant contention for some.

 * As for Hob's point that starting from a conclusion and accepting only evidence that supports it doing no harm, that may be true for some things, but not for science. And since science is what intelligent design is trying to be part of, the distinction between those who adhere to valid scientific method and those who start from preconceived, rigid conclusions and then cherry pick the evidence is a valid point to make in the article. --FeloniousMonk 20:19, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Straw Man! I didn't say that "starting from a conclusion and accepting only evidence that supports it" does no harm, but "starting from a conclusion and trying to find evidence that supports it" does no harm. --Hob Gadling 14:39, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, neither one is harmless. There's a reason that "starting from a conclusion and trying to find evidence that supports it" is not part of the scientific method. Further reading as to why can be found at confirmation bias.--FeloniousMonk 21:06, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * the scientific method starts with a conclusion by definition. "Hypothesis: this is true."  "Test: if the hypothesis were true, and i did this, then this would happen."  "Conclusion: hypothesis confirmed or rejected."  there's nothing unscientific looking for a bunch of different ways to test your hypothesis, or evidence to support it.  if there were, then the search for the "missing links" would be unscientific, too.  the only problem appears, as hob said, when you ignore all contrary evidence, or lie about your own.  Piltdown man, for instance.  Ungtss 23:16, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, it's very naïve to assume that confirmation bias can be avoided by trying to be neutral. It's a weakness inherent in all humans, and it can be avoided by using the scientific method, e.g. double blind studies. Science is always a community thing: one person alone can't do science. Others are needed to look over his work and point out the mistakes. Creationists make lots of mistakes, some of them very basic, and they keep making them after being corrected (with exceptions). That's why creationism isn't science. The preconceived notions of the creationists involved may be the deeper reason for the mistakes as well as the clinging to them, but since one can't look inside people, this can't be used as an argument. --Hob Gadling 13:12, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Recent Changes
The articles has really improved over the last few days. I've just made a range of changes to the first half of the article, which I think make the article more readable, and a little more balanced. I plan on making some similar changes to the second half later on. If there's any problems, please leave specific criticisms here, and I'll be happy to discuss them. --Brendanfox 06:15, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

conjecture.
npov requires that articles describe ideas without implying either that they are valid or invalid. the word "conjecture" is defined as a conclusion based on "incomplete evidence and guesswork." . ID asserts that there is positive evidence FOR ID. The word "conjecture" therefore minimizes ID to "guesswork." Using the word "Idea" (as i did before Stirling reverted commenting only that 'Conjecture is better') avoids this problem without losing any information. Stirling, why is 'conjecture' more npov? Ungtss 18:55, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * "hypotheses", "beliefs","theories". Whichever is picked it should be plural since ID is not monolithic, especially since fine-tuned universe is discussed here and it is completely orthogonal to any evolution issues.--Silverback 19:14, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Since the status of ID as being scientific at all is an issue, NPOV requires that we not assert language which prejudices the matter. Stirling Newberry 19:34, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * that's why i think "Idea" (or "Ideas" as Mr. Silverback prefers) is a happy middle ground between "theory" and "conjecture." eh?  Ungtss 19:47, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The biggest stumbling block for Wikipedia describing ID is the dispute in the non-Wikipedia "outside world" over whether ID is really a legitimate scientific hypothesis, or not. Since this dispute is significant (and is even causing friction at Wikipedia), I suggest we take a step back and describe the dispute fairly.

Let the article label ID as an "idea". All Wikipedia editors agree that it is an idea; we're just not agreed on what sort of idea it is.

May I suggest this wording?

 * Intelligent Design is an idea about how life came into being on the earth, particularly human beings.

I would further suggest that we describe in the article much of the external wrangling over whether ID is:

 * a valid hypothesis, but unproven (i.e, still MIGHT be true)
 * a valid hypothesis, but clearly NOT true
 * not a valid hypothesis
 * because conjectures about non-physical (i.e., supernatural) causes are off-limits
 * because there's no way to disprove it (see falsifiability)

Note that some of these positions may be in conflict. For example, it can't both be (a) a valid hypothesis which is clearly not true and (b) not a valid hypothesis because there's no way to disprove it.

I would prefer for the article to avoid taking sides in this dispute. Let's just summarize the views of the main proponents and opponents of ID, as expressed in books, articles, public speeches, etc. Okay? --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 16:02, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Except that it's not "an idea". It's a collection of diverse -- indeed, opposing -- viewpoints, attitudes, stances, and arguments, all united only in their opposition to purely naturalistic evolution. However, it is not untrue to call it a cultural movement. I agree with Silverback here -- if you are including "The fine-tuned universe" argument in with ID -- an idea that is held by such ardent Darwinists as Robert Wright, it is inaccurate to call it a single idea. --Goethean 17:32, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * seems we've got a semantic issue here. "Intelligent Design" is simply the idea (singular) that there is evidence that natural things were intelligently designed.  Under this umbrella, we've got a NUMBER of ideas, including IC, SC, fine-tuned universe, etc ... ID is like an umbrella, no?  Ungtss 18:44, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Article splits
As G. describes it, ID sounds more like a movement. I'm comfortable with that. I myself belong to a "movement", and its name can be either a theology or a church as well:

 * Unification movement - the movement, which includes:
 * Unificationism - its teachings, and
 * Unification Church - the official organization of believers

If we're still agreed that ID theories and the ID movement should be described in a single article, then how can we incorporate the Goethean insight?

 * 1) Move the article to intelligent design movement and begin it with The intelligent design movement is a collection of diverse -- indeed, opposing -- viewpoints, attitudes, stances, and arguments, all united in their opposition to purely naturalistic evolution.

This raises a closely related question:
 * How is ID related to creationism?
 * ID is a branch of creationism
 * ID in utterly unrelated to creationism
 * ID is "stealth creationism": theology dressed up in a cheap polyester suit, trying to look scientific and all...

Let's keep working on this, we're making progress! --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 18:46, Feb 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * I vote for moving the article to "ID movement". There are so many varieties of ID that all three of your prongs are true. Some versions of ID, like the thought of Neo-Hegelians which is accurately characterized by the phrase "a universe fine-tuned for evolution", are not related to scientific creationism. But Behe and Johnson are accurately characterized as making room for "stealth creationism". And most or many of the people who call themselves IDers are actually creationists. Additionally, this would nullify the cntroversy of whether it is a conjecture, idea, hypothesis, theory, umbrella, raincoat, etc. --Goethean 19:40, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * i vote we split the page ID and ID movement -- ideas in the first, political / social stuff in the second. Ungtss 20:32, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * We could spin off "intelligent design movement" as a separate article, but one linked to at the top of the main one. I submit it be referenced something like this: "This article concerns the idea of intelligent design, a variant of the Argument from Design often referred to by supporters of the Intelligent Design Movement. --RBeschizza 01:32, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how one separate ID from the ID movement, it is difficult to understand the former without the latter. A more natural divide would be between fine tuned universe and the rest of ID, since the former is orthogonal to evolution.--Silverback 06:15, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * None of this requires us to KEEP the two article forever separate. Often it facilitates the writing process if one or two parts are split off TEMPORARILY as sidebare articles. A few weeks later, it then becomes obvious that either:
 * They can and should be integrated; or,
 * They can and should remain as separate articles

 * In the case of Augusto Pinochet, the stumbling block was how to describe America's involvement in the 1973 coup. After the sidebar came into being, several writers who had been watching (timidly?) from the sidelines came in and quickly completed the Chile series. --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 20:45, Feb 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * excellent thinking. shall we give it a shot?  Ungtss 21:02, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * If we do, let's mention that the intelligent design movement:
 * has been promoting the view that "Intelligent Design" is a viable scientific hypothesis
 * and thus worthy of consideration in U.S. public school biology textbooks as an "alternative theory" to naturalistic conceptions of evolution
 * has been in conflict (political and legal) with its opponents
 * consists chiefly (?) of Creationists
 * attempts to portray itself as distinct from "creation science", and yet
 * is considered a form of "stealth creationism" by many opponents

Does that sum it up well enough? Note that I'm asking both sides, fan and foe. --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 15:49, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * has been promoting the view that "Intelligent Design" is a viable scientific hypothesis, yet to date has offered no alternative to natural selection or divine fiat as a mechanism for the origin of species --Goethean 16:24, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * all sounds good to me, ed:). Ungtss 16:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * To Ungtss: thanks. To Goethean, I think that is essentially correct. Alhough ID wimps out on characterizing the designer as supernatural, it certainly doesn't rule that out (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Perhaps that's why the "stealth creationism" label sticks so well.
 * The ID movement apparently want divine fiat (as you put it) taken off the sidelines and put back into the game, insisting that sources of causation other than automatic functioning of natural law be considered. They want to use (or highjack?) the argument used by ancient historians: the Easter Island statues, the monoliths at Stonehenge, and the Rosetta Stone could not credibly have been caused by anything other than an intelligent being having a purpose. Why not "mechanisms" such as flagella? (Note that I'm not saying Wikipedia should endorse this argment! Only that we should provide a fair summary of what their argument is - along with any significant rejoinders from opponents.) --user:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed (talk) 17:49, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia should not endorse anything, that's what NPOV is about. -sconzey

removed NPOV banner
69.134.50.153 did not follow-up here on the talk page.--Silverback 10:48, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I suggest that the NPOV banner on the "ID as 'Stealth Creationism'" section should be removed as well. The section does not make any assertions as to whether this type of criticism is accurate, simply that it exists. Given that it's an established fact tht many ID opponents do view ID as "stealth creationism", I see nothing non-neutral about the section. On the contrary, my opinion is that for an article on this subject to be both neutral and comprehensive, the arguments of both sides must be clearly stated. Redxiv 06:24, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree, despite being a staunch creationist and ID supporter. I see nothing wrong with Wikipedia reporting that opponents portray ID as stealth creationism. It's the same as US Senate Democrats portraying President Bush as "attacking" Sen. Reid via proxy. Wikipedia is not endorsing the POV, merely reporting that its advocates hold it. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 19:55, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * absolutely. facts are facts.  Ungtss 20:38, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Improability as impossibility
Contrary to Ungtss's reversion assertion - Dembski argues explicitly that improbability below a certain threshold represents proof of design:

" Confronted with this second scenario we are obligated to infer that here is a world-class archer, one whose shots cannot legitimately be explained by luck, but rather must be explained by the archer’s skill and mastery. Skill and mastery are of course instances of design." Stirling Newberry 14:53, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Let me repeat that since Ungtss does not seem to be reading the POV he is pushing:

cannot legitimately be explained by luck

I will again protest Ungtss' participation on this page, since he is here solely to push a POV, and he cannot be relied upon to even be a knowledgeable about that POV. Stirling Newberry 14:53, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * so speaketh the source of all light and reason on the page, the one who has been acknowledged by all, evolutionist and creationist alike, as truly objective in all things intelligent design.
 * i don't believe that what dembski's saying and what you are saying are the same thing. he says "cannot legitimately be explained by luck" -- again -- technically possible by luck, but so unlikely that it is unreasonable to believe it happened that way.  this contrasts with your revision, which sets a strawman -- extremely unlikely, therefore impossible.  so let's say what dembski's saying, shall we?  i will edit the page to reflect dembski's views, rather than your views or my views of dembski's views.  (so speaketh "the mad hound of creationism", dedicated only to spreading his lies and forcing people to believe things so he can drag them into the pits of the demon religion!!!  YAAAARGH!)  Ungtss 16:57, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * guys, this isn't the place for a flame war. Try private emails.  Ungtss, I can understand your frustration.  For random passers-by, Ungtss's assertions re: himself & Stirling are correct.  Stirling earlier called for outside adjudication of what was (is?) growing into a flame+revert war on the talk pages and edit summaries.  Community sentiment decided against Stirling.  (Check the history and look over the edit summaries.)  Ungtss has until now been relatively restrained.

 * As for the issue of what Dembski does or does not say, I must admit that I'm ignorant of the particular passage in question, but the section quoted by Stirling and Ungtss's interpretation of it are typical ID arguments. The "cannot legitimately by explained by luck" rationale is often used in science, and is in itself reasonable.  Indeed, the threshold probabilities ID supporters typically toss around are many orders of magnitude below the typical physics thresholds for "something weird's going on."  (That is, ID uses numbers which are tighter on the face of things.)  My problem is not with that aspect of their argument, but rather how they estimate the probabilities for abiogenesis, macroevolution, etc.  I think their statistical calculations of physical / chemical processes are specious.  I haven't seen the arguments in detail, but the little I have seen makes me intensely skeptical...  That being said, the "cannot legitimately be explained by luck" should go with Dembski's / Ungtss's interpretation.   (If anyone takes my rambling on statistics \& physics out of context, I'll be most upset.)  SMesser 18:36, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * i apologize for my lack of restraint. i'm intrigued by your concerns over the statistical methodologies -- would you be willing to clarify them further in the article?  Ungtss 19:15, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * okay, happy now. Briefly, my concerns are that the layman-level reports of the calculations seem to ignore initial conditions and chemical pathways, both of which are very important to most physical / chemical estimates of probability / efficiency.  Amino acids and complex hydrocarbons have been observed in interstellar dust clouds, where we do not expect life to exist, and ice-cores and other records suggest that early Earth history had an atmosphere similar to modern Titan's, and the Miller-Urey experiment suggests that given time and randomized input energy can cause such a chemical mix to change into one featuring a larger variety of highly complex chemicals.  The impression I get is that the calculations (quasi-)forbidding abiogenesis are supposed to be path-independent, but without seeing the actual math, I can't say for sure.  (There is some question of whether or not I'll be a valid judge even with the appropriate papers in front of me - I'm a plasma physicist, not a biochemist, so modern papers on biochemistry should be over my head.)  An actual path-independent approach seems like it should use quantum mechanics, Feynman diagrams, and more computing power than is currently available to the planet.  But again, I haven't seen the technical arguments, so maybe I'm missing something.  Perhaps you can provide a reference?SMesser 14:37, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Just glanced back at the article, and it looks like the subject may've been the apparently fine-tuned universe, rather than abiogenesis, as I'd assumed.  I have similar objections to the assertion that the universe is fine-tuned.  Proving that it is would seem to require a detailed theory of everything, as well as an agreed-upon definition for what constitutes life.  Both of these things are lacking in modern science, and the ToE should be worth a Nobel Prize if Dembski has found it.  There are several contenders, but they're rediculously hard to test experimentally.  Note in particular that the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics remains an open question.  Disproving it may be necessary to show that the universe as we see it is fine-tuned, rather than just an example of the weaker forms of the anthropic principle in action.  Again, I haven't seen the technical calculations, so a categorical denial of Dembski's arguments is beyond me, but I find the lay-level assertions highly suspect.  Do you know of any references? SMesser 15:02, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * from what i've read, i think i can safely categorically agree with your assessment. ID has by no means reached the status of "proof."  all the requirements you note for such a "proof" are indeed lacking.  And certainly many ID types have gotten a little ahead of themselves, and argued that things are proven when they're not.  However, I think what they DO provide is a basis for an intriguing and entirely legitimate line of research, and grounds for at least some semblance of belief in a positive designer, and disbelief in evolution.
 * As to the ToE (which certainly WOULD gain ID some credibility:) -- what do you think of the Spinning ring model for subatomic particles -- i.e. protons + electrons -- some creationists are arguing that it's a ToE, but i don't know enough about physics to properly evaluate their claims -- is this junk science?  Ungtss 15:25, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

In one word, Yes. Its stuff I (as an engineering student) can expirementally disprove. Also, I'm not really sure that it is at all relevent to this article.TheAT 16:52, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * definitely not relevent to this article ... i was just wondering if someone might have some insight into WHY it's wrong? if not here, at my talkpage, if you're interested at all:).  thanks:).  Ungtss 16:58, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll have to disagree with Ungtss on the progress of ID. I don't think they've provided sufficient evidence to merit much consideration in professional biological circles.  Evolution has provided a theoretical framework for enormous advances in genetics, comparative anatomy, and paleontology.  Backing away from it requires large amounts of pressing evidence and a theory which explains everything covered by evolution as well as a large chunk of the outlier points.  The biological community doesn't seem to think such evidence is pressing, and ID doesn't seem to have much predictive power.  (This last point is a common problem when the naturalistic / materialistic assumptions of modern science are dropped.)  If you want detailed answers by a biologist, look up Graft.  He's easy enough to get along with, but solidly in the evolution camp.  As for my own views, I'm bothered by ID's ties to young-earth creationists, claims by some in the ID community that naturalistic abiogenesis violates the second law of thermodynamics, and the sociopolitical goals outlined in the [|Wedge Strategy] leaked from the Center for the Renewal of Science & Culture.  Similarly, I'm unsatisfied by urgings from the ID community to teach evolution's "weaknesses" in public schools.  Most of what the ID community cites as weaknesses are not viewed as such by contemporary biologists, and the weaknesses of quantum mechanics, general realtivity, and electromagnetics are not taught, since the details are beyond what most high-school students can grasp.  (There's a quip I've heard running around physics labs:  "Why is it all the easy questions have been answered?")

 * As for the physics article you linked to, it's very bad. I'll try to be brief, but to answer their points in order:  1)There are deep questions about the mutual resolution of general relativity with quantum mechanics, but the article oversimplifies them.  String theory is one proposed resolution of the conflict.  It and a few competitors are being seriously considered by physicists, but the mathematics necessary for the theory are extremely complex, and experimental tests stretch modern technology.  Simple tests have been done, and string theory passes these without trouble.  More sophisticated tests are gradually coming within our reach, such as the search for the Higgs boson, but full-bore experiments to test predictions about the gray area between gravity (a theory about big things) and quantum mechanics (a theory about small things) is likely to be beyond our capabilities for a few decades at least.  2)  The article includes the line "Our approach integrates a deformable physical model with its self-field."  That's not revolutionary, or even informative.  Every theory of gravity or quantum currently available does that.  3)  The article says Maxwell's electromagnetic theory led to computers, among other things.  Yes, but only in conjunction with quantum mechanics.  Transistors use quantum effects.  4) The "Principle of Unity" section is reasonable, although there are some slight oversimplifications.  5) The article calls Einstein's description of space as a physical entity a bad idea and derides his assumption that inertial mass equals gravitational mass.  The two ideas are linked, and have been tested numerous times via the Cavendish torsion bar experiment and modern analogues, observations of Mercury's orbit, deflections of starlight by solar gravity, and the operation of the GPS satellites.  6)  The article says quantum theory assumes fundamental discreteness.  This isn't right.  Quantum particles are distributed probabilistic wave functions.  7)  The article also says "In Einstein's Relativity, space is passive; but in Quantum Theory, space and Nature are actively creating and controlling" various processes.  The distincition between active and passive forces / particles isn't normally made in physics.  If something exists, it has effects on other objects.  Moreover, Einstein's spacetime pushes objects around (that's gravity), so it seems misleading to call it passive.  8)  "The Discrete and the Continuous" is misleading, oversimplified, and wrong.  Resolving quantum with gravity is expected to be difficult - possibly beyond human comprehension, but not fundamentally impossible.  9) The article next uses its fallacious conflation of quantum mechanics with point particles to say quantum is incompatible with a host of observed phenomena.  The actual quantum theory is compatible with all of the items listed, but a detailed accounting of the mathematics involved requires a graduate course in physics, (a course which I've taken, by the way.)  10) Halfway through the article, the author introduces a miniature wire loop as a model for an electron.  The model has numerous problems, since it doesn't provide a good explanation for observed tunnelling, quantum teleportation, or the observed successes of relativity.  I could go on (I only made it halway through), but... that's more than enough for rambling on talk::inteligent designSMesser 17:55, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks:). Ungtss 18:28, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe the claim that scientists arguing against ID "point out that Behe has backed off from examples of irreducible complexity." is true. This is inconsistent with the scientific method as science is not based on authority. The arguement would carry as much weight as arguing that Gallileo backed off his claims. While it is significant that Behe backed off some of the claims, it should be mentioned as an aside and not as real evidence cited by scientists in arguments against ID. --64.230.175.140

 * Wait a second. If Behe previously had examples that he claimed showed the improbability of evolution through natural forces, and now he no longer holds these examples up, and he no longer points to any counter-examples that render naturalistic evolution improbable, this seems to me to be a relevant point. --Goethean 16:50, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this discussion would benefit from a cited instance of Behe actually backing off a claim without providing a counterclaim. This would certainly be more persuasive and encyclopedic, as well as settling the reader's suspicion that this is just another groundless personal research assertion with no relation to reality.  Ungtss 17:24, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Based on the No Personal Research policy, I strongly suggest that one of the proponents of this sentence find a source to back it up. There are articles in newspapers complaining about inaccurate personal research on wikipedia.  Let's not condone it.  Back that sentence up with some facts, please.  Ungtss 12:49, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * If Behe presented evidence that his examples were incorrect it is worth being mentioned, but if he simply backed off saying that he no longer believes his claims to be true then this is not evidence against the claims in scientific terms as the merits of the claims do not rest with Behe's personal beliefs.
 * Yes indeed:). It is mere ad hominem, and certainly of no scientific interest.  However, this instance of ad hominem is in good company, as much of the rest of the article is ad hominem.  Were the writers of this article interested in article QUALITY, the sentence would certainly go on that basis.  However, given that article quality is not of interest to many editors, I suggest simply that the sentence is unadulterated personal research, therefore in direct violation of articulated wikipedia policy, and should be backed up with facts, or deleted.  Ungtss 17:21, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of Behe explicitly rejecting the "ICness" of any of his previous examples. There are some that he doesn't mention very much anymore, but this doesn't mean he's changed his mind about them.  However, if he did explicitly reject some previous examples, then I do think it would be relevant.  Not because Behe is an authority, but because the IC argument requires that IC, once identified, be an absolute barrier to evolution.  If new discoveries can render previously idenfied examples of IC no longer opperative, then this puts the argument on very shaky grounds.  There's no reason to believe then that all examples of IC will not suffer the same fate.  (Personally, this is how I see things, but for now I think the statement should be removed, since I know of no evidence for it.)  --Theyeti 21:12, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Other comments
How come this talk page is almost entirely reduplicated? — B.Bryant 14:35, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

At any rate, what brought me here was the article's assertion that the Center is funded at the rate of $1.5 per year, which is surely an error. — B.Bryant 14:35, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to remove these three comments when the relevant problems are fixed. — B.Bryant 14:35, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have tried to deal with the duplication on this page. Please restore any lost material -- ciphergoth 16:49, 2005 Apr 8 (UTC)

Reversion of revision by 66.91.89.127
I've reverted four revisions by User:66.91.89.127. These changes don't seem to be an effort to make the article more informative, but simply to replace neutral language with inflammatory. It's disingenuous to say that ID "seeks to answer": ID is precisely the position that the answer to that question is "yes". -- ciphergoth 13:42, 2005 Apr 9 (UTC)

 * No, ID seeks to answer these questions, and provides some evidence that what it proposes is true. It no more prejudges the issue than anti-creationist scientists do when they say "the answer to the creation of life must exclude any supernatural entity". DJ Clayworth 14:40, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that the whole section "Intelligent Design as Stealth Creationism" is just some guy's idea of why he doesn't like ID. It's just listing reasons why he thinks it's wrong, without any idea if these are generally agreed or whether the arguments are rebuttable. It needs serious work or prefereably removal, since it is really someone trying to carry out the debate under the pretence of writing an encyclopedia article. DJ Clayworth 14:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I removed this section because it is clearly untrue.

 * ''As with religious creationism. ID is open to the criticism "what designed the designer?", since a designer capable of creating irrducible complexity must also, by ID's own arguments, be irreducibly complex. Unlike with religious creationism, where the question "what created God?" can be answered with theological arguments, this appears to create a logical paradox whics is fatal to the ID argument unless an uncaused causer, that is to say, God, is invoked, in which case ID reduces to religious creationism. Once this is done, ID ceases to be a falsifiable theory, and therefore loses its ability claim to be a scientific theory.

It is clearly untrue because there is no a priori reason why an irreducibly complex system cannot have been designed by a non-irreducibly complex entity. In fact evolution proponents cliam this all the time. Computers (obviously irreducibly complex) have been designed by humans (which they claim are not). I re-iterate my point. Just because you think you have a good argument as to why ID is wrong does not give you the right to put it in the article. This is an encyclopedia, not a debating society. DJ Clayworth 14:53, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is valid criticism of ID. You don't have the right to remove valid criticism just because it could reveal a fundamental fallacy in ID.

 * Regarding "there is no a priori reason why an irreducibly complex system cannot have been designed by a non-irreducibly complex entity": -- Your position, that irreducible complexity can arise from something that is not itself irreducibly complex, is suicidal. That is why ID advocates tend to view the Designer as irreducibly complex: it is easier to defend the "first cause" arguments criticised in the passage you removed than it is to defend a non-irreducibly complex Designer.

Obviously you have not the slightest idea of what 'irreducably complex' means. Hint: Computers are not. The statement is correct; that is a serious flaw (one of many) with 'intelligent design.' Re-added.The Rev of Bru

New article
Please see the following article:

I would add it to the references, but I'm not sure that it belongs. There is a great deal of information in the article that is not well-included in this article. Joshuaschroeder 21:11, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

huge pile of nothing
What the hell is up with this article? It is way too long. It's a lot of fluff to give verbal substance to something that has no substance of its own. Intelligent Design can be described in a couple of paragraphs. The scientific community's point of view against ID can be presented in a couple of paragraphs. This article has exploded into a pile of nothing in order to dance around any and all hard facts. Time to scrap it and start over. FuelWagon 22:15, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Speaking of which, the following was inserted by anon:
 * - (full text was inserted below following it's move here) - 68.206.248.140

We need to trim this article. Not write a book.--ghost 18:47, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Intelligent design/Archive 8


text:
Quantel

Quantel was a company based in the United Kingdom and founded in 1973 that designed and manufactured digital production equipment for the broadcast television, video production and motion picture industries. It was headquartered in Newbury, Berkshire. The name Quantel came from Quantised Television, in reference to the process of converting a television picture into a digital signal.

Quantel acquired Snell Limited in March 2014. Following a period of consolidation the two companies started operating under the Snell name, trading as Snell Advanced Media or SAM, from September 2015, following the staged removal of the Quantel board of directors by incoming CEO Ray Cross.

Quantel was purchased by Grass Valley, who were taken over by Cayman Island-registered Black Dragon Capital in 2020 who decided to close down Newbury factory in 2023, the 50th anniversary year of Quantel.

Around 50 legacy Quantel machines are known to still exist in museums and private collections around the world, several of which have been restored to working order by enthusiasts.

History

Quantel founder, Peter Michael, had previously founded Micro Consultants Group (MCG). MCG had pioneered a range of fast data conversion products that could be used for converting video signals from analog to digital and back to analog. These devices found use in many early Quantel products.

In the 1980s, Michael merged Quantel along with his other interests such as Link Electronics Ltd into the UEI Group of companies.

Michael became chairman with Quantel remaining a privately owned company of the publicly quoted UEI. Under the leadership of Richard Taylor OBE, chairman from 1975 and Paul Kellar MBE, Quantel made several pioneering firsts in video:

 * In 1975, it released the first all-digital framestore, the Quantel DFS 3000. It was first introduced in TV coverage of the 1976 Montreal Olympics to generate a picture-in-picture inset of the Olympics' flaming torch while the rest of the picture featured the runner entering the stadium. Framestore technology provided the cornerstone for the future development of digital television products.
 * In 1981, it released the Paintbox, an extremely advanced television graphics system for its time. Paintboxes are still in use today due to their image quality, and versatility. The Weather Channel was the first customer in the United States to purchase a Paintbox in 1982 (they had serial number '1' in the USA), which was used to generate its on-air weather maps during their first years of operation. MTV was another early customer of the Paintbox.
 * When the BBC weather department decided to move from magnetic weather symbols on a board in 1985 to a complete digital solution it used modified Paintboxes which were controlled via Apple Lisa computers. The weather presenter then stood in front of a blue screen holding a button that was connected to the Lisa; which then in turn communicated with the Paintbox to bring up the next slide.
 * In 1985, Quantel released the "Harry" effects compositing system/non-linear editor. The Harry was designed to edit in real time and render special effects in non-real time using the video recorded on its built-in hard disk array (much like most computer based non-linear editing systems today). The hard disk array used drives made by Fujitsu, and were connected to the Harry using a proprietary parallel interface, much like a modern-day RAID array. Technically, it was the first all-digital non-linear editing system. Due to technical constraints of the time, the Harry could only record 80 seconds of video, albeit encoded in full broadcast-quality, uncompressed D1-style 8-bit CCIR 601 format. This aside, the Harry was quite an advanced machine, and the only system like it for its time.
 * In 1992, Quantel released "Henry", the first multilayer compositing system, which became the worldwide industry standard for commercials production and went on to win the British government's Queen's Award for Export Achievement, Quantel's ninth such award.

This period until 1998 marked the high point of the company's profitability, size and market position, placing it in the top handful of broadcast vendors. The company had a global presence with major offices, staff and facilities on the east and west coast of the US, in Paris, Tokyo, London, Seoul, Hong Kong and Sydney, plus other overseas resources. There was a private air operation - Quantel Aviation - based in Farnborough which included a private Cessna Citation executive jet. However, as software based products began to gain ground in Quantel's then core businesses of compositing, graphics and news editing, the company was not able to maintain this position.

Recent history
In 1989 Quantel had been acquired from UEI by Carlton Communications which had also acquired high end sound console manufacturer Solid State Logic as part of the same deal. This relationship ended in 2000 when Quantel management bought the company back for $76.6m funded by Lloyds Banking Group venture capital arm LDC.

From 2000 to 2005, Quantel then specialised in:

 * sQ - Video server based system for the broadcast industry which is designed for all forms of fast turnaround production, such as sports and news
 * Newsbox - Complete news production system in a box
 * iQ - Used for digital intermediate film work
 * eQ - Used for post production and TV commercial work
 * Pablo - Color grading system
 * Mission - A media and asset management system for handling media in large systems

December 2005 saw the forced departure from the board of long-standing chairman and chief executive Richard Taylor OBE by owners LDC in conjunction with Ray Cross - who had worked as an external consultant with Taylor and LDC to create the business plan to present to Lloyds for the 2000 management buyout from Carlton. Taylor was subsequently diagnosed with cancer in December 2008 and died in June 2009.

Research and development director Paul Kellar MBE, who had been key to Quantel's previous technology leadership, immediately resigned on hearing of Taylor's ousting and Neil Hinson was promoted to replace Kellar by Cross. Hinson had joined Quantel in 1980 and played a pivotal part in the design of many of the most successful Quantel products including Harry, Henry, Mirage and Clipbox as well as the later generationQ family of products but was also quickly replaced by Cross with another Quantel employee, Simon Rogers in December 2008.

In the autumn of 2008 Cross made a sizeable round of redundancies, saying that the company was moving towards being more software based. Cross engaged in another round of redundancies in April 2009, giving the reason that the global recession has been deeper than had been planned for. Cross made further redundancies in October 2012, as its quarterly results were not as good as expected. In March 2014 Quantel acquired Snell Ltd. also owned by Lloyds, and began the consolidation of the two companies. Cross made further redundancies, primarily in the former Snell organisation. Like Quantel, Snell (as Snell and Wilcox) had formerly been a major player in the broadcast space but also like Quantel had seen a long-term decline in its market position and profitability. Although both companies produced media technology, each had quite separate but complementary products.

In its heyday under Taylor, Quantel was ranked in the top four broadcast vendors and had one of the strongest brand names. Finally after almost 10 years of Cross downsizing Quantel and after apparently several failed attempts to sell the business, Cross himself was forcibly removed in March 2015 - allegedly partly following senior staff complaints about Cross to backers Lloyds Development Capital - and replaced by former Grass Valley CEO Tim Thorsteinson, chosen on a "proven track record of value creation". Thorsteinson subsequently sacked the entire Quantel board of directors. Finally in September 2015, the Quantel name was dropped and the residual business placed inside the Snell operation, branded as Snell Advanced Media (SAM). Thorsteinson has previously been involved in downsizing and restructuring other broadcast companies, such as Grass Valley and Harris, in order to prepare them for sale, which was the role LDC had originally brought Cross in to Quantel to achieve.

Timeline

 * 1973 TBC 2000 / TBC 2200 - Time base corrector.
 * 1975 DFS 3000 - Digital framestore synchroniser.
 * 1977 DSC 4002 - Digital video standards converter.
 * 1977 Intellect (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - Built for image processing research, including the design of the brush profiles on Paintbox. It was used for a wide variety of commercial and military applications including ANPR camera robotic imaging research. More Compact Intellect 100 launched in 1979
 * 1978 DPE 5000 - Digital processing effects. One of the first digital video effects systems.
 * 1981 Paint Box - the first version was only a paint system, with stencils and cutouts added in 1982, then digital fonts in 1983
 * 1982 Mirage - 3D real-time video effects processor.
 * 1983 Cypher - 2D and 3D character generator
 * 1983 Crystal (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - enhancement of monochrome still images from electron microscopes, used mainly by scientists doing semiconductor and medical research
 * 1983 Encore -digital video effects machine
 * 1985 GPB Graphic Paintbox - print quality Paintbox
 * 1985 Harry - Non-Linear Editor.
 * 1985 Sapphire (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - a version of Crystal with special input video processing to allow processing of monochrome video data from x-ray systems.
 * 1985 Revue (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - a digital disk recorder allowing the replay of short lengths of collected data
 * 1985 IDIS (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - X-Ray (fluorography) image enhancement machine which combined Revue and Sapphire into a medical system for early digital x-ray angiography
 * 1985 Scanline (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - a 'military' version of Crystal, taking inputs from radar or thermal sensors with data collected as the aircraft flew along
 * 1985 The Military Paintbox - combined with Scanline, Crystal and Revue for a wide range of applications from simulations and reconnaissance, to analysis of data and briefing graphics
 * 1986 Central Library - image filing system
 * 1986 Satin - 4:2:2 digital standards converter
 * 1989 Paintbox V - Second generation Paintbox, faster and smaller.
 * 1989 Florence (Sold under Micro Consultants brand name) - high definition video standards converter for the medical industry
 * 1990 Picturebox - Digital still store. Capacity is 520MB or 500 images. Increased to 1000 images with Picturebox twin.
 * 1990 Harriet - Manipulating live graphics over video. Capacity is 323 PAL frames (around 12 seconds).
 * 1992 Henry - Effects Editor which became the mainstay of the post industry across the world in the mid-nineties.
 * 1992 HAL - Video design suite.
 * 1993 Desktop Paintbox - print quality paintbox which could connect to a Mac
 * 1993 Dylan - 20 disk RAID external storage package for video and audio.
 * 1993 Editbox - Online NLE.
 * 1993 Domino - A film in, film-out digital optical system that was a Paintbox and HAL for the movie industry
 * 1994 Clipbox - Multi-user video server.
 * 1994 Printbox - pre press machine for publishers which could integrate with Mac and PC through Quantel's "Courier" image management system
 * 1994 GPB2 - cheaper desktop size version of Graphic Paintbox but with new CMYK colour cards
 * 1995 Open Picturenet - Networking for Quantel products.
 * 1998 Inspiration - Integrated news and sports production system.
 * 2000 PaintboxFX - a higher spec and more compact version of HAL, with three internal disk drives instead of the separate Dylan
 * 2000 iQ - Media editing and compositing platform.
 * 2002 generationQ - Harnesses uncompressed storage through using Dylans, and runs on an 'open platform' allowing easier networking between machines, and file sharing. The new generation of products included the iQ, for digital intermediate. eQ for post and editing, and gQ, aimed towards the graphics market.
 * 2004 Enterprise sQ - second-generation fast-turnaround production system for news and sports applications. ESPN equips its new Bristol, CT Digital Center with Enterprise sQ HD production system.
 * 2005 Paintbox - New Paintbox launched which is a powerful design and compositing tool. Dealing with the moving image, and still images, this new Paintbox was named in honour of the original Paintbox created in 1981.
 * 2005 Newsbox - A complete television newsroom production system to record, edit and playout news material.
 * 2005 Pablo - Nonlinear Color grading system - Quantel's first fully featured color corrector.
 * 2005 Picturebox sQ - Graphics server for stills and moving sequences.
 * 2006 Pablo HD - High definition color grading system.
 * 2006 Newsbox HD - High definition capable version of Newsbox.
 * 2006 Marco - Software only DV field editor.
 * 2007 Mission - Media and asset management system.
 * 2007 Stereoscopic 3D - 3D post-production system.
 * 2008 Pablo Neo - Ergonomic 'heads up' control panel for Pablo post-production system.
 * 2010 QTube - Global media workflow technology, enabling viewing and editing of media from anywhere using the internet.
 * 2012 revolutionQ - Allows the use of 'off the shelf' IT storage rather than traditionally expensive Quantel dedicated video storage.
 * 2012 Pablo Rio (2015: Quantel Rio) - software color correction and finishing system.

Headquarters and manufacturing

Quantel was based at 31 Turnpike Road, Newbury, Berkshire, England since 1982. The 126000 sqft building was built on the 6.7 acre site in 1940 for Vickers Armstrong and manufactured Spitfire fighter aircraft during World War II. Air raid shelters are still present in the grounds of the site. Other users of the building included the Post Office and the Ministry of Transport.

A large part of the site was dedicated to manufacturing. It is now very rare that companies manufacture their own products due to the complex nature of multiple layer circuit boards containing high density surface mounted components. It is more common now to design complex circuits on a computer and await delivery of a ready built board or simply use off the shelf IT.

As part of restructuring during the 1990s, Quantel decided to outsource support of legacy products to a separate company Effect Systems. Also based in Newbury and staffed by many ex Quantel staff, Effect Systems took over support for products. These include Editbox, Henry, Hal, Paintbox, Picturebox, Domino as well as older products dating back to the 1980s including Mirage, Harry and Encore. On 1 October 2008 Quantel ended the outsourcing contract with Effect Systems. Effect continued to offer independent support for Quantel legacy equipment (Paintbox V, Picturebox, Henry, Editbox and Domino) but has now ceased that support and in 2016 disposed of the inventory of spare parts.

Products
Traditionally, Quantel systems were based around proprietary hardware and software. With the introduction of the generationQ range a number of Quantel products were based on Microsoft Windows and standard PC hardware with occasional use of custom hardware.

Despite Quantel holding hundreds of Patents for inventions that many other companies utilized, such as the pressure sensitive stylus first used on the 1981 Paintbox, the company only ever sued three other companies for Patent infringement. Due to the high profile of the cases against Spaceward for their Matisse, which was marketed as a cheaper version of Paintbox and Adobe Systems for Patented elements within its Photoshop software, Quantel were unfairly accused of trying to suppress and control competitors. Quantel won their case against Spaceward in London and blocked further sales, though let the company service the systems already sold. Adobe already having been punished for various anti-competitive practices such as buying and closing down CorelDraw in 1994 as it competed with Illustrator but Quantel was portrayed as a British company trying to destroy Adobe. The case partly hinged on first use of a digital airbrush. Adobe's lawyers, who were provided and funded by Apple, found a prior use of the airbrush by academics at NYIT which predated Quantel's Patent, therefore invalidating it and greatly influencing the judge's decision to dismiss the case.

The majority of Quantel products used code names for some parts of their systems before launch. One source of code names was the television series The Magic Roundabout. The Dylan disk system and the Zebedee processor take their names from characters in this series. Quantel's product names often seemed random but Henry, Harry, Harriet and HAL were chosen as they stood out in the broadcast arena where technology was named in a more mathematical acronym way.

As well as news, sports and weather graphics, Quantel video technology was used extensively in production of a wide spectrum of TV shows, from Top of the Pops in the UK, to the American television series Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Many of the major movies released since 1999 were created or manipulated using Quantel technology, including Star Wars episode 2 and 3, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, The Day After Tomorrow, and Sin City. Users of sQ server based systems include ESPN in the US, Rogers Media in Canada, and BBC, BSkyB and QVC in the United Kingdom.

Quantel effects appear in many TV Commercials and music videos, including the winner of the first MTV Award and most famously, Dire Straits' Money For Nothing

Quantel-designed technologies include:

 * Dynamic rounding - Dynamic rounding was a technique devised by Quantel for truncating the word length of pixels – an unavoidable process when processing images. Rather than simply losing the lower bits, dynamic rounding uses their information to control, via a randomiser, the dither of the LSB of the truncated result. This effectively removes any artefacts that would otherwise be visible. Dynamic rounding is non-cumulative on any number of passes and produces statistically correct results. Dynamic rounding eliminates any truncation artefacts.
 * FrameMagic - A system used on video servers where video clips are treated as individual frames rather than a single clip. This allows very efficient use of storage as only frames used in subsequent edits need to be kept from an original recording. This allows the rest of the unused frames to be discarded.
 * TimeMagic - A background rendering system which renders editing effects as the operator continues working.
 * Resolution Co-existence - Allows a video edit to be made up of different formats of source material without any extra work required by the operator. One example is an edit that will play out standard definition but some parts of the edit may be part of a high definition source clip.
 * Genetic Engineering - A technology that allowed multiple users to work on the same media independently without having to have multiple copies of it.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Quantel


text:
Joseph Warioba

Joseph Sinde Warioba (born September 3, 1940) served as Prime Minister of Tanzania from 1985 to 1990. Furthermore, he served concurrently as the country's Vice President. He has also served as a judge on the East African Court of Justice, and as chairman of the Tanzanian Constitutional Review Commission.

Warioba was born in Bunda District of Mara Region in Tanzania. He graduated from the University of East Africa in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania in 1966. From 1966 to 1968, he served as state attorney in Dar es Salaam, and from 1968 to 1970, as solicitor for the City Council. In 1970, he graduated from The Hague Academy of International Law. From 1976 to 1983, he served as the attorney general of Tanzania. From 1983 until his election as prime minister, he served as minister of justice.

Following his tenure as prime minister, Warioba served as a judge on the Hamburg, Germany-based International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea from 1996 to 1999. Furthermore, in 1996, President Benjamin Mkapa appointed him as chairman of the Presidential Commission Against Government Corruption, better known as the Warioba Commission.

Warioba was chosen to lead the Commonwealth Observer Group in the April 2007 Nigerian elections. He gave a positive assessment of the elections, deeming them to be progress while also saying that there were irregularities.

Following President Jakaya Kikwete's announcement for a referendum for Tanzania's constitution in 2014, he appointed Warioba as the Chairperson of the Constitutional Review Commission (CRC). The CRC was tasked with reviewing and proposing amendments to Tanzania's constitution. In this capacity, Judge Warioba played a crucial role in facilitating stakeholder engagement and communication throughout the constitutional review process. He oversaw a series of public consultations and engagement initiatives to gather input and perspectives from various segments of Tanzanian society.However, it's important to note that the proposed new constitution faced some challenges and controversies in the subsequent stages, ultimately, the process did not lead to the adoption of the proposed constitution in its entirety.

In 2015, the Tanzanian government decided not to adopt the new constitution, and the constitutional review process effectively came to a halt. As a result, the 1977 constitution, with some amendments, continued to be in effect. Warioba was appointed in November 2016 by the President of Tanzania John Magufuli as the Chancellor of Sokoine University of Agriculture in Morogoro, Tanzania.

title: Joseph Warioba


text:
Makedonia TV

Makedonia TV (Greek: Μακεδονία TV) is a Greek private national free-to-air television channel broadcasting from Marousi, Athens and earlier from Thessaloniki, the capital of Macedonia in Greece. It was founded in 1991 by a group of journalists from the newspaper of the same name.

Programming
The foreign program includes a big variety of series: comedy, drama, and action as well as big heat series and feature films from the big production studios that broadcast daily; Sex and the City, Amores Verdaderos, Just for Laughs, Rookie Blue, Bold And Beautiful, La Tempestad, Mayday, In Treatment, Spartacus and many more.

From 3 September 2018, the network changed its programming which includes only foreign series and telenovelas.

Current

 * Chicago Fire
 * Deutschland 83
 * Satisfaction
 * Saving Hope
 * Scandal
 * Shades of Blue
 * Sons of Anarchy
 * Suits
 * The Blacklist
 * The Mafia Kills Only in Summer
 * Top Gear

Former
Shows
 * Kalimera
 * m.esa ekso
 * Thes de thes Thessaloniki
 * Cine Club
 * Banana Mix
 * Kane Paixnidi
 * LIP GLOSS
 * m.aziptero
 * TAKSIDIOTES
 * Sound Box
 * Koritsia gia Spiti
 * Ena klik pio konta...
 * Ola Kala (Gossip show)
 * Derby (Sports show)
 * My Moment
 * H Poli Mou
 * Gefseis Kai Oinos
 * Ygeia
 * Tenekes

Foreign series
 * Amores verdaderos
 * Bewitched
 * Color Rhapsody
 * Dinosaucers
 * Family Guy
 * Futurama
 * Happily Divorced
 * Harsh Realm
 * Jumanji
 * Just for Laughs
 * Lady, la vendedora de rosas
 * La Doña
 * Las Estrellas
 * La Patrona
 * La Tempestad
 * Malcolm in the Middle
 * Reina de corazones
 * Rookie Blue
 * Santa Diabla
 * Sex and the City
 * Sky Dancers
 * Space Goofs
 * Spartacus
 * The Bold and the Beautiful
 * The Real Ghostbusters
 * The Simpsons
 * The Young Pope
 * Thunderbirds
 * Triunfo del amor
 * Two Guys and a Girl

title: Makedonia TV


text: Category:Operas by Domenico Cimarosa

title: Category:Operas by Domenico Cimarosa


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rain Coat Corporation

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 00:19, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Rain Coat Corporation
Vestigial remains of a "hoax". Delete. 24.17.17.26 06:10, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Simple comment: I have restored the article text. Please don't remove it if you make another VFD, we need to see it to vote. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 06:13, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete...and the restored content is clearly bogus information. Hoax it is!  The links go to blogs. Tobycat 07:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * delete; but clear hoaxes should be speedied. Mozzerati 18:13, 2005 Jun 4 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text: Category:Operas by Arrigo Boito

title: Category:Operas by Arrigo Boito


text: Template:Constitution of Pakistan

title: Template:Constitution of Pakistan


text:
Wikipedia:Recent additions 29

Did you know...

 * ...that the principles of bird flight are the same as used in aircraft, with lift being provided by an aerofoil?
 * ...that by passing as a man, Isobel Gunn became in 1806 the first woman of European descent employed by the Hudson's Bay Company in Rupert's Land?
 * ...that Fred Gipson was an American author best remembered for creating a fictional dog featured in a book and the classic 1957 movie Old Yeller?
 * ...that the English politician Charles Mohun, 4th Baron Mohun fought a duel with James Douglas, 4th Duke of Hamilton in Hyde Park, London on November 15 1712 which resulted in the deaths of both men?

 * ...that Lover's Leap is a name given to a number of locations of great height where legends take place involving couples leaping to their mutual death?
 * ...that French painter Adélaïde Labille-Guiard was ordered to destroy her royal portraits after the French Revolution?
 * ...that admiral Michiel de Ruyter saved the United Provinces from invasion in the two Battles of Schooneveld in June 1673?
 * ...that 11 of the 13 members of the Hong Kong cricket team died when their steamship, SS Bokhara, was lost in a typhoon in 1892?

 * ...that the National Socialist Motor Corps was a motorized paramiltiary group of the Nazi Party, numbering almost 500,000 in membership?
 * ...that Reverend Mother Superior Dolores Hart is the only nun to be an Academy Award-voting member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences?
 * ...that the racehorse "Your Host" of Hollywood producer William Goetz won the 1950 Santa Anita Derby?
 * ...that time discipline is the set of social and economic rules, conventions, customs, and expectations about time and its measurement?

 * ...that the Iceland hotspot is partly responsible for the frequent volcanic eruptions and geothermal activity experienced in Iceland?
 * ...that Zara Yaqob was the first Emperor of Ethiopia (1434 – 1468) to send a diplomatic mission to Europe?
 * ...that in Hindu mythology, Meenakshi was born with three breasts, fish-eyes and a smell of fish?
 * ...that the composer Zbigniew Preisner wrote the title music for the monumental BBC documentary the People's Century which spans 26 parts?

 * ...that French painter Charles-André van Loo was the principal court painter to Louis XV of France?
 * ...that English explorer James Knight died on an expedition in search of the Northwest Passage in 1719?
 * ...that Joseph Cornelius O'Rourke, an Irish Count born in Estonia, became a Russian Lieutenant General, and was honoured with a statue in Belgrade for his victory over the Ottoman Empire in 1810?
 * ...that American golfer Tony Lema died when the plane he was travelling in crashed into a golf course?
 * ...that the Truro murders were among the earliest serial killings in Australia?

 * ...that Perley A. Thomas was a Canadian millsmith who attended night courses, learned drafting and design skills, and became a renowned streetcar and bus manufacturer in High Point, North Carolina?
 * ...that American actress Susan Oliver, after surviving a plane crash that almost ended her life, became the first woman to fly a single-engined aircraft solo from New York City across the Atlantic Ocean?
 * ...that the Windows Template Library is perhaps the only open source library by Microsoft?
 * ...that the two airplanes on the Bar Harbor Airlines fleet that had accidents were numbered N200WP and N300WP respectively?

 * ...that one-room schools were commonplace throughout rural portions of the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries? All of the students met in a single room, and one teacher taught reading, writing and arithmetic to seven or eight grade levels of boys and girls.)
 * ...that thousands of toads in Hamburg, Germany recently became mysterious exploding toads?
 * ...that a kid hack was a horse-drawn vehicle used for transporting children to school in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the United States? This early form of school bus powered by both horses and mules, was usually loaded at the rear to avoid frightening the animals.
 * ...that a remand prisoner may be entitled to wear their own clothing, rather than a prison uniform?

 * ...that Madonna of the Trail is a series of monuments dedicated to the spirit of the pioneer woman in the United States? Created by German immigrant sculptor August Leimbach, 12 were placed from Maryland to California in 1928 and 1929.
 * ...that the growing of heirloom plants may help increase the genetic variety of crops?
 * ...that the Laotian Rock Rat is a new species of rodent that is unique enough to lead researchers to create a new family of mammals?

 * ...that the International Dance Day has been celebrated on April 29 since 1982? It commemorates the birthday of Jean-Georges Noverre, the creator of modern ballet.
 * ...that George E. Studdy was a British artist best remembered for his creation of Bonzo the dog, a fictional character, in the early 1920s?
 * ...that musical montage (montage meaning "putting together") is a technique where musical compositions or sound objects are created from collage?

 * ...that the town of Baird, Texas, is named after the second owner of Baldwin Locomotive Works, Matthew Baird?
 * ...that the child actor Tommy Rettig, who starred as Jeff Miller in the first four seasons of the Lassie television series became a noted database software author as an adult?
 * ...that Skyfox was one of the first games to popularize the cockpit view for flight action games?
 * ...that Chrissy Snow from the American sitcom Three's Company was actually named "Christmas Snow"?

 * ...that the U.S. National Arboretum, the new D.C. Convention Center, the National Museum of Women in the Arts, and Corcoran Gallery of Art are all located on or near New York Avenue in Washington, D.C.?

title: Wikipedia:Recent additions 29


text:
Wikipedia:Recent additions 30

Did you know...

 * ...that when Lady Frances Brandon failed to marry her daughter Lady Jane Grey to Edward VI of England, she plotted instead to raise Jane to the throne by means of a coup d'état in 1553?
 * ...that the European White Elm is distinguished from other European elms by its long flower stems?
 * ...that the Free French corvette Aconit was awarded the Ordre de la Libération for her service in World War II?
 * ...that the incorrect climatological theory that "rain follows the plow" was promoted in the 1870s to justify the settlement of the arid Great Plains of the American West?

 * ...that Pancho Barnes was a pioneer of women's aviation and owner of the Rancho Oro Verde Fly-Inn Dude Ranch?
 * ...that the Humboldt Squid is a large, aggressive predatory squid which can grow to 2 m long and weigh 40 kg?
 * ...that Götz von Berlichingen, a knight of the Holy Roman Empire, wore a prosthetic hand made of iron after losing his hand in the siege of Landshut in 1508?

 * ...that the Swabian War of 1499 was fought between the Old Swiss Confederacy and the emperor Maximilian I and his Swabian League?

 * ...that the male pink salmon develops a large hump on its back when it is time to spawn, leading to the species nickname "humpie"?
 * ...that a freak decompression accident on board the oil rig Byford Dolphin in 1983 literally caused a man to explode?
 * ...that Scottish cyclist Robert Millar finished fourth in the 1984 Tour de France, the best ever finish by a British cyclist?
 * ...that Marcus Loew, whose family's poverty forced him to give up on schooling and go to work at age nine, became the owner of the largest chain of movie theaters in the United States and the founder of MGM Studios?

 * ...that Starry Night Over the Rhone, painted by Vincent van Gogh in 1888, shows the constellation Ursa Major over the Rhone at Arles?
 * ...that when Theodora Comnena married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem in 1158, her dowry was 100,000 hyperpyra?
 * ...that the fungus Magnaporthe grisea destroys enough rice to feed more than 60 million people annually and was prepared as an anti-plant biological weapon during World War II?
 * ...that Buzzie Bavasi was the general manager of the Brooklyn & Los Angeles Dodgers for eighteen years, helping the team win their first four World Series championships?

 * ...that cloud-busters can allegedly use energy from their brain's prefrontal lobe to dissipate clouds?
 * ...that the first witches persecuted by the Inquisition believed in Madonna Oriente, the Moon goddess?
 * ...that Elsie Tanner was a core character on the British soap opera Coronation Street for over twenty years?
 * ...that Leonard Shoen was an entrepreneur who founded the first American vehicle rental company called U-Haul in 1945?

 * ...that the Dutch ship Brederode was the flagship of the United Provinces in the six largest battles of the First Anglo-Dutch War?
 * ...that Dutch maritime painter Simon de Vlieger was influential in the move away from the monochrome grisaille to a more colourful style of sea painting?
 * ...that Malin Space Science Systems operates the camera on the Mars Global Surveyor?
 * ...that Video-Enhanced Grave Markers turn headstones into talking video displays for the deceased?

 * ...that some original sources on medieval hunting contain detailed instructions on how to capture a unicorn?
 * ...that Brooklyn Brewery hired Milton Glaser, best known as the creator of the logo for the I Love New York campaign, to create their company logo?
 * ...that Josiah Belden was a member of the first party to use the California Trail, and the first mayor of San Jose, California?
 * ...that Project Exile was a program of prosecuting illegal gun offenses in federal court, helping reduce gun violence in Richmond, Virginia?
 * ...that the Plague of Athens devastated ancient Athens in 430 BC, perhaps leading ultimately to the city's defeat in the Peloponnesian War? (hidden on main page, not used)

 * ...that NGC 3314 is a pair of almost perfectly overlapping spiral galaxies, giving astronomers a unique opportunity to observe the properties of interstellar dust?
 * ...that Showmen's Rest in Forest Park, Illinois is a 750 plot section of Woodlawn Cemetery where members of a circus troupe were interred following the Hammond circus train wreck in 1918?
 * ...that Sarah Brady became an advocate of gun control and led actions to reduce gun violence after her husband White House Press Secretary James Brady sustained a disabling head wound during the Reagan assassination attempt in 1981?

 * ...that Julia Tuttle was the citrus plantation owner that owned the land upon which Miami, Florida, was built, and that she gave half her land to Henry Flagler to entice him to build a station for the Florida East Coast Railroad there?
 * ...that Project Aqua was a proposed hydroelectric scheme for the lower Waitaki River in New Zealand that would have diverted up to 77% of the river's flow into a separate canal?
 * ...that different stages of the fish parasite Myxobolus cerebralis were originally thought to be three different organisms in two different classes?
 * ...that it was Jack Clement who discovered and recorded future Rock and Roll Hall of Fame singer Jerry Lee Lewis for Sun Records while Sam Phillips was away on a trip?

 * ...that the Paradesi Synagogue, built by the Malabar Yehudan people, is the oldest synagogue in the British Commonwealth of nations ?
 * ...that the Slovenian folk instrument bird-scaring rattle is used to drive birds from vineyards?
 * ...that the astronomer Tycho Brahe calculated products quickly using Prosthaphaeresis, a 17th century algorithm exploiting trigonometric identities?
 * ...that John Ritter made one of his first film appearances in the 1972 horror film The Other? (Text is new, article used to be redirect)

title: Wikipedia:Recent additions 30


text:
Wikipedia:Recent additions 31

Did you know...

 * ...that spatiotemporal gene expression refers to the patterns in which genes are expressed in different tissues as an organism develops?
 * ...that only five people have been decorated Hero of Belarus, the highest title that can be bestowed on a citizen of Belarus?
 * ...that Jean Kambanda, prime minister of Rwanda during the 1994 Rwandan Genocide, is the first and only head of government to plead guilty to genocide?
 * ...that Ariwara no Narihira (825–880) was one of six waka poets named in the preface to the great Heian period poetry collection Kokin Wakashū?

 * ...that the Eastern Newt changes its skin color from bright red to olive green when it becomes an adult, and is known as the red eft before adulthood?
 * ...that because Adelaide del Vasto was divorced by King Baldwin I of Jerusalem in 1117, her son Roger II of Sicily refused to give assistance to the Crusader states during the Second Crusade?
 * ...that the decoration of the 1877 Papal Tiara includes 540 pearls, 68 rubies, 37 emeralds, and many other precious stones?
 * ...that the Battle of Bun'ei in 1274 was Mongol emperor Kublai Khan's first attempt to invade Japan?

 * ...that the Tarim mummies indicate that Caucasian populations lived in Xinjiang in western China during the 1st millennium BCE?
 * ...that Cherrapunji in India is the wettest place in the world?
 * ...that there are sixteen candidates running in the June 14 Ohio Second Congressional District Election to replace representative Rob Portman?
 * ...that Mick Mills was made captain of the England national football team which started the 1982 World Cup because Kevin Keegan was unable to play through injury?

 * ...that Irish chemist Robert Kane (1809–1890) showed that hydrogen is electropositive?
 * ...that 1980s horror movie actress Ellie Cornell nearly broke out of her typecasting by appearing the 1992 film A League of Their Own, but had to drop out because she became pregnant?
 * ...that American country music singer Mindy McCready was once engaged to actor Dean Cain?
 * ...that Valerius Anshelm (1475–c. 1546), a Swiss chronicler, wrote a history of Berne from the Burgundy Wars to 1536 that remained buried in the municipal archives of the city for 80 years?

 * ...that anatomist Caspar Wistar (1761–1818) developed a set of anatomical models from human body parts by injecting them with wax?
 * ...that Saki's short story "Sredni Vashtar" plays an important role in Raymond Postgate's 1940 mystery novel Verdict of Twelve?
 * ...that Kermit Roosevelt III, author of the 2005 legal thriller In the Shadow of the Law, is the great-great-grandson of U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt?
 * ...that there are parts of Canadian airspace where compasses aren't useful because they're too close to the magnetic north pole?

 * ...that the scientific collections of Jacques Labillardière (1755–1834) were seized by the British in 1793 as spoils of war, but were returned after lobbying by Sir Joseph Banks?
 * ...that Bono Manso, the capital of Bono state, was an ancient Akan trading town in present-day Ghana, which was frequented by caravans from Djenné as part of the Trans-Saharan trade?
 * ...that the 1960s singing duo Paul & Paula inspired such pairings as Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell?
 * ...that the Brimstone Moth has a variable life cycle of either one generation a year or two generations every three years?

 * ...that Carolus Linnaeus the younger was enrolled by his father at the University of Uppsala at the age of nine?
 * ...that the bending of starlight around the Sun during the solar eclipse of 1919 was a testimony to the predictive power of Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity?
 * ...that Niccolò Da Conti (1395–1469) was a Venetian merchant who traveled around the Indian Ocean for 25 years in the early 15th century, and was made to relate an account of his travels as a penance for converting to Islam?
 * ...that Firpo Marberry was the first relief pitcher in Major League Baseball to record 100 saves in his career?
 * ...that the grunion is a sardine-sized fish only found off the coast of California and Baja California that comes up on sandy beaches at very high tides (during the new and full moons) to lay its eggs?
 * ...that Bruce Webster was so burned out from writing the computer game SunDog: Frozen Legacy for the Apple II, that he gave up programming for four years?
 * ...that Jack-Jack Attack is the first Pixar short not to be given a theatrical release?
 * ...that Pakistan Television Corporation (PTV) signed an agreement in 1963 with Japanese company NEC which gave the latter partial ownership of PTV's network?

 * ...that Barstow, California, and Strong City, Kansas, are both named in honor of William Barstow Strong, former president of Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway?
 * ...that in the music video for the Crazy Frog song "Axel F", the frog's genitalia have been censored for broadcasting?
 * ...that former England footballer Mick Channon is now a successful horse trainer?
 * ...that Chinese BASIC is the name given to several Chinese versions of the BASIC programming language?

 * ...that suffragist Louisa Lawson (1848–1920), publisher of Australia's first woman-run journal, The Dawn, was also the mother of the great Australian poet Henry Lawson?
 * ...that the Terik language of Kenya is classified as endangered by UNESCO because the Terik people have increasingly become assimilated to the Nandi people in recent decades?
 * ...that facial symmetry is correlated with health, physical attractiveness, and beauty, and is a factor in interpersonal attraction?
 * ...that a sideman is a professional musician who is hired to perform or record with a group of which he is not formally a member?

 * ...that Ars moriendi ("The Art of Dying") was a popular 15th century text on the proper etiquette of how to die?
 * ...that MOMO syndrome is a very rare genetic disorder characterised by macrosomia, obesity, macrocephaly and ocular abnormalities?
 * ...that the reality television series Dr. 90210 got its name from the zip code for part of the Los Angeles suburb of Beverly Hills?
 * ...that the U.S. airlifted 22,325 tons of military supplies to Israel for use in the Yom Kippur War under Operation Nickel Grass?

 * ...that the Washington State Capitol has been hit by three major earthquakes since its construction?
 * ...that David Penhaligon (1944–1986) was a promising Liberal Member of Parliament in the United Kingdom but was killed in a car crash at the age of 42?
 * ...that macrosomia is a complication in pregnancy and childbirth when the fetus is dangerously big?
 * ...that the Defaka people of Nigeria are gradually abandoning their language in favour of the language of the Nkoroo, their close neighbours?

 * ...that Joseph Rainey became the first black person to serve in the United States House of Representatives on December 12, 1870?
 * ...that the Runyang Bridge and the Jiangyin Suspension Bridge are the two largest suspension bridges in China and the fourth and sixth largest suspension bridges in the world?
 * ...that Brancaleon, a 15th century Venetian painter who gained fortune, fame and notoriety in his adopted home of Ethiopia, is an example of early contacts between Europe and sub-Saharan Africa?
 * ...that the short-lived Maryland Constitution of 1864 emancipated the state's slaves and disenfranchised Marylanders who fought for or supported the Confederacy?
 * ...that the 1st century Greek historian Nicolaus of Damascus reported the embassy of holy men from India to the Levant, Athens and Rome during the time of Jesus?

title: Wikipedia:Recent additions 31


text:
User talk:ThomistGuy

Thomas Dewey
You placed the POV check tag on the article. Could you please see the discussion at the talk page and further elaborate. Thanks. Falphin 29 June 2005 16:26 (UTC)

title: User talk:ThomistGuy


text: Category:Operas by Luigi Cherubini

title: Category:Operas by Luigi Cherubini


text:
Kamla Persad-Bissessar

Kamla Persad-Bissessar (born Kamla Susheila Persad, 22 April 1952), often referred to by her initials  KPB, is a Trinidadian lawyer, politician and educator who is the Leader of the Opposition of Trinidad and Tobago, political leader of the United National Congress (UNC) political party,  and was the prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago from 26 May 2010 until 9 September 2015. She was the country's first female prime minister, attorney general, and Leader of the Opposition, the first woman to chair the Commonwealth of Nations and the first woman of Indian origin to be a prime minister of a country outside of India and the wider subcontinent.

Persad-Bissessar became political leader of the UNC in 2010. In 2011, Persad-Bissessar was named the thirteenth most influential female leader around the world by Time magazine.

Persad-Bissessar held the premiership from May 2010 to September 2015, where she was also the leader of the People's Partnership - a political coalition of centre and center-left wing parties that governed the country. Since September 2015, she has been the Leader of the Opposition of Trinidad and Tobago. After the coalition disbanded in September 2015, following their electoral defeat, Persad-Bissessar attempted to regain power in the August 2020 elections; however, the UNC only managed to increase their seat count by 2 and the popular vote by 20,000. Nonetheless, the PNM under the leadership of Keith Rowley (who later became Trinidad and Tobago's seventh Prime Minister) maintained power and was re-elected, however, with a smaller majority.

Early life and ancestry
Kamla Susheila Persad was born in Siparia in southern Trinidad to Lilraj and Rita Persad, both Hindus of Indian descent. Her father was a bookkeeper and worked in the accounting department of Texaco, while her mother was a maid and labourer in the cocoa fields, who eventually saved up to own and operate a roti shop. Her paternal grandparents were Soomintra Persad (née Gopaulsingh) and Choranji Persad, and her maternal grandparents were Rookmin and Ramprit. Her paternal grandmother, Soomintra, was a market seller who was a founding member of the Saraswati Prakash Mandir, a Hindu temple at Boodoo Trace in Penal, and she had organized a ladies Indian singing and Hindu prayer group, as well as being an elder counsellor who helped those in need. Her maternal grandmother, Rookmin, and her maternal great-grandmother, Sumaria, were both laborers in the sugarcane and cocoa fields and both had to become the breadwinners to support their families after their husbands died at young ages. Persad-Bissessar has said that she credits her mother, grandmothers, and great-grandmother as setting examples for her in feminism and paving the way for her. Persad-Bissessar had one brother and three sisters, her brother, Roland, and eldest sister, Shirley, are deceased and her other two sisters are Vidwatie Newton who lived in England and Sally Ahamad who lives in New York.

She was born into a Brahmin Hindu Indian family. Her ancestors emigrated in the 1880s from India to Trinidad through the Indian indenture system. Her maternal great-grandparents (her maternal grandmother's parents) were Sumaria and Seepersad who were from India. Sumaria was from present-day Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India and had left India from the Madras Port. Her paternal great-grandparents (her paternal grandfather's parents) were Pundit Ram Lakhan Mishra and Ganga Mishra who were from India. Pundit Ram Lakhan Mishra was from Bhelupur, Bihar, India. After indentureship, Pundit Ram Lakhan and Ganga Mishra had settled at Boodoo Trace in the town of Penal in southern Trinidad. In 2012, Persad-Bissessar visited her paternal great-grandfather's village on a state visit to India.

Persad-Bissessar spent her early childhood living in a joint family with her parents and paternal grandparents at Boodoo Trace in Penal, where she attended the Mohess Road Hindu School. In 1959, at the age of seven, her family moved to Siparia where she attended the Erin Road Presbyterian Primary School, and later the Siparia Union Presbyterian Primary School. In 1963, she was accepted to Iere High School in Siparia, a new co-ed school at the time. There she was a top debating student, champion badminton and netball player, and she excelled in her classes and was put into special classes to write the GCE O Levels in 1966. She graduated in 1969.

When Persad-Bissessar was sixteen, she wanted to go to the United Kingdom to further her studies, but her traditional father and uncles insisted she stayed in Trinidad and Tobago. However, her mother eventually convinced them to send her. Persad-Bissessar then left Trinidad at the age of seventeen, in August 1969, to attended Norwood Technical College in West Norwood, London, England. While in college in England, she worked as a social worker with the Church of England's Children's Society of London.

By the time she left Trinidad she had already met her future husband Gregory Bisessar and he was already in England when she was attending college. They married two years later in 1971, when she was eighteen and he was twenty-two. They later left England for Jamaica, where they spent fourteen years. In Jamaica she attended the University of the West Indies in Mona and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts (Hons.) in 1974 and a post-graduate Diploma of Education in 1976. After graduating, she taught at St Andrew High School in Kingston and at the University of the West Indies in Mona, and she was also a consultant lecturer at the Jamaica College of Insurance. She was the youngest lecturer, at the age of twenty-five, to the ever teach at the University of the West Indies. She was awarded a Fulbright Scholarship to attend Columbia University to do research leading to a PhD but she opted to study law instead. In 1985, she graduated from the University of the West Indies at Cave Hill with her Bachelor of Laws (Hons.). During her time UWI, Cave Hill she gave birth to her son. In 1987, she graduated from Hugh Wooding Law School with her Legal Education Certificate at the top of her class, with awards for being the most outstanding student and having the best overall performance. In 2006, she obtained an Executive Masters in Business Administration from the University of West Indies Arthur Lok Jack Graduate School of Business in San Juan, Trinidad and Tobago.

Political career
In 1987 Persad-Bissessar entered politics serving as an alderwoman on the Saint Patrick County Council till 1991. She then became an opposition senator from 1994 till 1995. Persad-Bissessar then became a Member of Parliament for the Siparia constituency in 1995 and has been ever since. She served as Attorney General in 1995 until Ramesh Maharaj was able to disassociate himself from ongoing cases and again in 2001 after Maharaj left the party. When the UNC formed Government on 22 December 2000, she was sworn in as the Minister of Education.

On 25 April 2006 she received the support of the majority of Opposition MPs for the post of Leader of the Opposition. The position of Leader of the Opposition was declared vacant by President George Maxwell Richards after Basdeo Panday was convicted of failing to make an accurate declaration to the Integrity Commission concerning a bank account held in London. Persad-Bissessar was subsequently appointed Leader of the Opposition on 26 April 2006.

Political leader
On 24 January 2010, Kamla Persad-Bissessar was elected political leader of the UNC, emerging victorious over the party's founder and former Prime Minister, Basdeo Panday. She was formally appointed opposition leader on 25 February 2010, having gained the support of a majority of UNC MPs.

Prime Minister
Persad-Bissessar took office as Prime Minister after the victory of the People's Partnership in the general election of 24 May 2010, defeating the previous government of the People's National Movement, which had called an early election. Her election campaign has been analysed as a successful attempt to bring together people with different ethnic backgrounds and ideological affiliations under female leadership. She was the first female prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago and is also the first female Commonwealth Chairperson-in-Office. She was succeeded as Chairperson-in-Office by Julia Gillard with the opening of the 2011 CHOGM on 28 October 2011.

Leader of the Opposition
On 21 September 2015, Persad-Bissessar was appointed leader of the opposition by president Anthony Carmona after her party was defeated at the polls, following the 7 September 2015 general elections. The People's National Movement led by Keith Rowley secured 23 out of 41 seats to form the government, while the People's Partnership coalition led by Persad-Bissessar secured 18 out of the 41 seats in the House of Representatives to form the opposition. In the 2020 general election, the People's National Movement won re-election and Persad-Bissessar remained the Leader of the Opposition. However, the United National Congress did pick up two more seats than previously held.

Personal life
Persad-Bissessar married Gregory Bissessar in 1971 and they have one son. She and her husband reside in Phillipine, Penal-Debe, Trinidad and Tobago. She is a grandmother of two and has described herself as an adherent of both Hinduism and the Spiritual Baptist faith. She had raised her brother's children after he died in a car accident.

title: Kamla Persad-Bissessar


text: Category:Operas by Vincenzo Bellini

title: Category:Operas by Vincenzo Bellini


text:
Timeline of Maharashtra history

 * 600 BC: One of the 16 great janapadas, named Ashmaka
 * 230 BC to 225 AD: ruled by the Satavahanas
 * 250 to 525: The Vakatakas brought the Vidharba under their rule.
 * 550 to 760: Ruled by the Chalukyas (Badami Chalukyas)
 * 640: Chinese pilgrim Xuanzang visited Maharashtra
 * 973: Rashtrakutas rule comes to an end
 * 973 to 1180: Ruled by the Chalukyas (Western Chalukyas or Kalyani Chalukyas)
 * 1189 to 1310: Ruled by the Yadavas of Deogiri (Seunas)
 * 1296: Alla-ud-din Khilji, the first Muslim sultan of the north, penetrated the Deccan, defeated the Yadavas, and carried away a huge hoard of loot.
 * 1534: Portuguese occupied Mumbai.
 * 1659: Shivani captured Satara from Bijapur Sultanate, and led a revolt against the Mughal Empire
 * 1661: Mumbai transferred from Portugal to Britain
 * 1668: British government transferred Mumbai to the British East India Company
 * 1674: Chatrapati Shivaji became the first King of the Marathas
 * 1680: Death of Chatrapati Shivaji
 * 1689: Death of Sambhaji
 * 1707: Shahu I became Chhatrapati of the Maratha Empire
 * 1720: Bajirao I became peshwa (prime minister)
 * 1740: Death of Bajirao I
 * 1756: Marathas captured the town of Attock (now in north-west Pakistan). Maratha Empire reached its largest extent.
 * 14 January 1761: Marathas lost the Third Battle of Panipat.
 * 1775–1782: First Anglo-Maratha War
 * 1803–1805: Second Anglo-Maratha War
 * 1817–1818: Third Anglo-Maratha War
 * 3 June 1818: Bajirao II surrendered to the British
 * 15 August 1947: Independence of India
 * 1 November 1956: Bombay state enlarged to include all of present Maharashtra.
 * 1 May 1960: Bombay state split along linguistic lines into new states of Gujarat and Maharashtra.

title: Timeline of Maharashtra history


text: User talk:69.232.240.250

title: User talk:69.232.240.250