text:
Talk:Katar (dagger)

[Untitled]
I changed "misspelled" into "spelled", since misspelled imply that it was accidental, which may not be the case. -No, misspelled means that something was spelled incorrectly.

anyone up for drawing a pic of this

Yeah, needs pics.

There is no acute accent on the e in the word "anime". Fixed.

Guarding with the kitar
The long extensions which run parallell to the wrist up to the middle of the forarm could be used to block a sword strike. Source History Channel: the Mugals --70.94.33.121 18:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

fancruft
too much--D-Boy 08:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree. The popular culture section is far too big. I'm cutting out the obscure stuff. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.79.225.131 (talk) 05:57, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

South Indian Katar
The South Indian katar was far bigger than the ones in the North. Their size was more similar to that of swords......though I'm sure dagger variations existed in the South as well. Zachorious 01:18, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 18:26, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Hexen 2
This weapon is also seen in the PC game Hexen 2 from Raven software. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.191.42 (talk) 02:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Origin, Earliest known example?
How old is this weapon? i.e., what is the earliest known example? 209.198.144.173 (talk) 05:27, 18 May 2008 (UTC) Jay

Page Move
Is there a source for the name change to "katara" which led to a page move? If a page is going to be renamed and moved, there should be a source backing up such claims. --Seb0910 (talk) 17:42, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I second this request. The article speaks of the weapon as a "katar", and I see no mention of "katara", aside from the title. No sources to back it up, and not even the slightest indication, that the name is ever spelt as "katara".--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 11:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Seeing as there is no sources, or any other basis, for spelling it "katara", and no one is arguing for it, I went ahead and changed the name. Now I'm just dealing with the mess of fixing what links to it, and the such...--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 19:24, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

 * The proper transliteration from the original Sanskrit is in fact kaţāra. The "katar" spelling dates back to colonial times. The British, understandably, had not yet formalized a Sanskrit romanization system at the time, and therefore simply spelled words as it sounded to them. Thus we have the words avatar or even "avtar" instead of avatāra, and pundit instead of pandita. Even a well-known word like raja was commonly spelled as "raj" by the colonists. Since the katar spelling is common today, I won't argue for a page move. Just saying that there is a basis for the katara spelling. Morinae (talk) 17:23, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you have any sources to back that up?
 * If you can point to reliable sources, which can verify what you claim, then that is fine and it should be mentioned in the article. Unless, and until, you do, that is merely an unsubstantiated assertion, which is to way that it is completely and utterly worthless here.
 * Wikipedia doesn't allow for stuff what you, or anyone else, would like to claim, however sure you are that you are right. You have to actually be able to show that it is correct.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 00:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Please don't misunderstand, I am not trying to push any claims of mine. I am merely pointing out a matter of transliteration. Such instances are common, especially in languages where more than one romanization system exists. For example, the Indian name Datta is often written in the English alphabet as "Dutt". If you can read the Sanskrit or Hindi script, you can see it for yourself. Otherwise, you can type कटार in any translator for proof. Even in the English language, I have come across the katara spelling in several books. All I'm saying is, there's nothing wrong with mentioning alternative spellings, and this is considered standard. To call it "completely and utterly useless" is unproductive and not exactly assuming good faith. Morinae (talk) 09:40, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No I'm sorry, but it is you who does not understand and, indeed, you who fail to assume good faith. You made claims, without anything to back them up. Such claims are useless on wikipedia. They have no place here. This is not failing to assume good faith, as I said nothing to implicate your intentions, in any way.
 * Yes, the mention of alternative spellings is not wrong. Indeed it would be a flawed article that didn't mention them, but... What I was saying, is that if what you are saying is true, then you should find some reliable sources to back it up. All mentions of "katara", throughout wikipedia, had been either tagged with a "citation needed", or they have been removed as unverified, given that there failed to be any verification of the spelling anywhere, for a very long time. If its true, surely someone would have verified it by now?
 * I was challenging you to verify your claim ...or if you fail to do that, accept that it has no place in wikipedia, however correct it may be. Whatever you may think/feel about it, that's how this site works. I wasn't trying to talk shit about you, or to be mean. I was merely pointing out how things work around here, and what you need to do.
 * You have now actually cited some sources for the "katara" spelling (demonstrating that my challenge to you was effective). Thus you have actually backed up what you are saying. Well done. Unverified claims have no place here, but claims made by reliable sources certainly do. Thank you for nicely improving the article and verifying the validity of the katara spelling.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 15:04, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
 * With that verification, may I propose renaming the article? In my experience, I find that "katar" is indeed common in the English language and can therefore be considered correct, but I'm not sure if I'd say it's more common unless we're confining ourselves to games. "Katara" is considered the more accurate spelling among academics as it is a more literal transliteration of Devanagari. Generally speaking, when a foreign word has several accepted spellings in English, the wikipedia article uses the "official" spelling. In this case, that would be the IAST or if necessary the ISO 15919, both of which spell the word as kaţāra, though the accents shouldn't be necessary for the purposes of the article. The exceptions to this rule are words which are already common like tai chi (taiji) or kimchi (gimchi). Although the weapon has become more internationally known during the last decade or two, the word katar or katara is certainly not a common part of the average English-speaker's vocabulary on par with the aforementioned terms. I doubt that a page move would cause too much confusion. Morinae (talk) 10:00, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point.
 * I was curious to check the policy on these things, and found WP:COMMONNAME (policy) and WP:OFFICIALNAMES (an essay. Not policy or guideline, merely explaining things). These articles point out that while it may seem that the official/correct name, is the one that should be used, this is actually not the case. The name that is preferred, is generally the most commonly used one (as determined by what is most used in reliable sources). The official name may be the appropriate one, but the more common name is generally preferred.
 * While you seem to have cited sources that verify that kaţāra is the correct spelling, they do not verify that it is the more common one (overall, not just among academics), in reliable sources.
 * I, personally, think katar is a lot more common, but that doesn't really matter and may be, in part, due to my main exposure to mentions of the weapon, being from games (though the usage in games is just as relevant as the usage in books. More so that academic books/papers, I'd argue, as people are more commonly exposed to games than academic books/papers). Either way, we need some, more or less, objective measure. Checking google books gave the result of katar being more common. Doing google searches gave mixed results ...and both those methods are a bit flawed. I'm not sure how to judge this.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 15:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure of an accurate way to gauge which is more common either. Over the years, I have occasionally come across "katara" in English-language books, newspapers and magazines from countries where the weapon is more widely known (India, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc). I say "occasionally" here because even in these countries, opportunities to mention the weapon are limited to the context of antique art or martial arts. It begs the question of whether "katar" is perhaps only common in the west, but that's just a guess for now. I do agree with you that games and other popular culture are relevant reflections of language, but the policy states that articles "use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources". In sources that are considered more reliable for this topic, I think it's a little more difficult to determine which spelling is more common.
 * I tried looking at what's being done in similar situations for other articles, particularly Chinese and Korean-related articles since both those languages have undergone a relatively recent transition in their systems of transliteration. Mandarin and pinyin are generally used except in cases where Wade-Giles and dialectal names are substantially more common. This has still lead to some heated debates for articles which can be argued are not well-known enough for an "unofficial" name or spelling to be used. But there have been cases wherein there was no dispute even though an argument could have been made. I think the best comparison here would be the articles for Chinese weapons like jian, dao (sword) and qiang (spear). For all these words, the Wade-Giles spelling is actually more common (ch'ien, t'ao and ch'iang), especially in dictionaries, due to that system being older. Even in more recent writings on martial arts, the Wade-Giles spellings are still in common use despite pinyin being more accurate, officially recognized, and actively promoted. To put it another way, the official spellings were chosen over the more common spellings not simply because they are official but because the words themselves are not well-known enough for the more common spelling to take precedence. Or at least, that was my interpretation of the situation. If we were to apply the same practice to the article at hand, should not "katara" be the title? Morinae (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, regarding my point about video games... The policy is "Wikipedia prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources) as such names will be the most recognizable and the most natural.". That is, the reason for the use of reliable sources, to determine frequency, is to measure what word is most commonly used, overall. The concern is not what word is more commonly used in books, but what word is most commonly used, overall, in English. Thus, even is word frequency in games doesn't quite comply with the "letter of the law" it does comply with the spirit of it ...which most certainly may overrule the letter of it, at least on wikipedia.
 * It should be noted, however, that games can be reliable sources, depending on what sort of information one is to verify. In the case of what word is more common, I'd say they most certainly qualify as reliable sources. Indeed, I'd argue that they should maybe count even more than academic sources, for the reasons I stated in my previous comment.
 * As to what you say about jian, dao and qiang... I have seen jian and dao, plenty of times, but never, not once, have I seen the spellings chi'en, t'ao or ch'iang. Never. As such, I seriously doubt your claim that they are more common. Certainly if we're speaking of how common it is, to the average wikipedia reader (which is the "common" that is desired). Admittedly I am not someone who is deeply involved in Chinese weaponry, but I do have an interest in pre-firearm weapons (especially swords), so it's not like I haven't looked into these things at all.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 14:14, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess I see your point; games would indeed be a major source of exposure for the average reader. Well, as I said before, katar is a common spelling so there is a strong justification for using that spelling as the title. And as has been said on the Daoist/Taoist debate, the wikipedia reflects current usage, and adapts to changes in usage over time. So if katar really is more common, that's fine with me. If in another 5-10 years the promotion of ISO 15919 makes katara the more common spelling, the article will be adjusted accordingly. I'll only list my points for your consideration.
 * 1. Katara is a common spelling. Granted, katar is also common, but I'm not quite convinced that it is more common. Of course it may very well be marginally more common, or even a lot more common. Just that I don't see any evidence of that being the case yet.
 * 2. Neither katar nor katara are very common words in the English language. If there was a page move, I do not think it would be too confusing or misleading. Or am I mistaken?
 * 3. For the record, it was not I who first changed the name of the article to Katara. There are others who feel the same way I do, particularly those from countries where the weapon is more well-known.
 * 4. The purpose of the common name policy is to use whatever feels most natural and recognizable. Katara only has one extra letter from katar, not to mention that it is still a common spelling. I doubt it will seem unrecognizable or unnatural even for those who never came across the official spelling. Am I wrong?
 * I think what we really need here is an objective way to determine which spelling is more common. Even taking games and other pop culture into account, I'm still not sure that katar occurs more frequently on average. Morinae (talk) 10:00, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

1. I would argue that katar is far more common, as I had never seen katara, until I saw that this article had been renamed as such. Granted a google search did show katara as being not all that uncommon. I would argue however, that this is a recent thing and that it is still outnumbered by katar, outside of certain countries, such as India. Certainly in most areas where your average person would stumble upon the weapon (i.e. video games, role-playing games... possibly some, not too advanced, page/book about weapons). It may be that katara will, eventually, become more common, but as it is now, pretty much all games (whatever kind of game they may be) use katar, the Encyclopædia Britannica use katar, the tv show Deadliest Warrior (I could go on at length, as to how bad it is, but it was popular)...

2. I would argue that you are mistaken. First of all: just because it is uncommon, doesn't necessarily mean that it is uncommon to know the term. Among people who know about the weapon, it will generally be a rather uncommon term in their vocabulary. (admittedly, I do believe that most people don't know the weapon ...but that those who do, also don't use the term very often) Secondly, while a lot of people might not ever have heard of the weapon, there are plenty of people who have heard of the weapon as katar. I would assume that anyone who knows it as katara, would also recognize it as katar, but that most people who know it as katar, would not recognize it as katara.

3. ...and I would point out that two or a few more people (the amount of editors I believe to be involved with naming, or arguing for naming, this article as katara), still counts as a small minority ...and that wikipedia's policy for naming articles is not to adjust to what people in India (and maybe a few neighbouring countries) consider to be correct.

4. The amount of letters that are different it completely irrelevant. Something can be spelled with four letters different, but be recognizable as the same thing, or spelled with one letter different and be completely unrecognisable ...and any attempt to search on a term, makes the spelling all the more important (though admittedly having the other spellings as redirects, rather removes that as a concern). As to your other comment here, I'd direct you to what I said about point 2, above.

BTW, on having an objective measure... As I said previously, google books showed katar to be, clearly, more common, but google searches to give mixed results... I tried doing google searches again and looking at the results more closely. Katara gave a lot of results that had nothing to do with the weapon (often having to do with Katara (Avatar: The Last Airbender), but also many other results), while this did not seem as true of searches for katar. I seemed to have found one game that had the katara spelling, but it turned out to be a normal sword or knife. I then tried adding "-avatar" to my search entry (so as to get rid of results having to do with Avatar: The Last Airbender). Using "katar/katara weapon -wikipedia -avatar", "katar/katara dagger -wikipedia -avatar" or "katar/katara sword -wikipedia -avatar", the results where suddenly not mixed. Without "-avatar", I got katar as getting more results with "weapon", but less with "sword" or "dagger". With "-avatar"... katar was massively in the lead. Mind you, searching with just the term "katar" och "katara" (and "-wikipedia" or "-wikipedia -avatar") gives more results for katara, but given that most of those results have nothing to do with the weapon in question, or any weapon at all, that doesn't really seem relevant.

The fact that "katar" is a common spelling for the weapon in question is, as far as I can tell, utterly unquestionable. There is more than enough sources to confirm that "katar" is, most certainly, a common spelling, even if they cannot confirm how common it is, or if it is more common. I cannot say that the same could be said of "katara", however. I do not know of any sources, that would show that it is a common spelling. If you know of any, please do show them.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 02:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

 * You make a strong case. My only arguments here (and I realize they are easily countered) would be that I never said wikipedia should adjust to what one or a few countries think is correct. On the contrary, I was attempting to do the opposite by pointing out international English-language usage as opposed to what may be known in North America. Personally, I am apprehensive about using google searches as a way to determine what is more common, since many books and other reliable sources will not be found online due to obscurity. Not to mention the fact that many online sources I have come across sometimes rely on a single or only a few references. Or worse, they use wikipedia as their reference. On the issue of redirects, I actually thought it would quell any confusion since a person who never heard the word "katara" might be searching for "katar" and would simply be redirected to the article, see that the title is katara and then realize the variations in spelling. I don't know of any way to "prove" that katara is a common spelling. I can continuously give source after source which uses the katara spelling, but that hardly proves it is more common. In fact, when I looked through my books to verify the katara spelling, I tried to confine the sources to at least pseudo-academic works. I did not include various others which were simply books on folk tales or poetry that also used "katara". With all that said, seeing as katar was used in the Encyclopædia Britannica, many games and at least one TV show, I suppose it is probable that "katar" is the more recognizable term, at least perhaps among North Americans. I am still not entirely convinced, but in the absence of any better method to gauge which spelling is more frequently-used, I won't debate anymore on the subject for now. Morinae (talk) 09:12, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd like to point out that I'm not american and I'm opposed to americentrism.
 * Anyway, thanks for a good, friendly, discussion and, again, for adding sources for the "katara" spelling.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 22:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Popular culture?
Is this section really needed? It mainly lists a bunch of video games which use the weapon (the list of which can go on for ever). I'd suggest removing the section entirely (as Katars are pretty frequent in video games and film). —Preceding unsigned comment added by French Connections (talk • contribs) 01:52, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Will remove. GDallimore (Talk) 01:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed again. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 09:56, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Legality in Canada
Under Canadian law push daggers are banned. Although the intended target of the law are compact folding daggers designed to fit in the palm of the hand, the definition is a knife with a blade perpendicular to the handle. The only exception is the Ulu knife. If anyone knows more about this please post. --216.58.52.132 (talk) 21:17, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Why is this a sub-page?
Why is an obscure Indian village, given the page title "Katar", while the fairly well known and highly notable weapon, named Katar, forced to be a called "Katar (dagger)". Should it not be the other way around? Surely when people search wikipedia for "katar", it will mostly be due to wanting to know about the weapon? Indeed, I'd say that the vast majority of times, it will be the weapon, that people are concerned with.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 20:06, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I agree, the weapon is much more well-known and notable than the village. The Katara article isn't even very informative. Morinae (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do you mention the Katara article?--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 00:27, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Oh sorry, I meant the Katar article. Morinae (talk) 09:18, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Indian Death Scissors?
The scissors type katar, are these what is known as Indian Death Scissors, or is that a different weapon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.33.18.10 (talk) 08:36, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Name section
I'd suggest adding a section to this article, dealing with what the weapon can be/is called. Many other articles can have a "name"/"etymology"/"terminology" section ...or two or all three of them. Such a section would probably be useful here.--ZarlanTheGreen (talk) 21:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

punching sword
Is anyone able to find any reliable sources for the katar being referred to as a "punching sword"? This is presently mentioned at Push_dagger:
 * The push dagger is thought to have originated from the Indian subcontinent, and is related in principle to the 16th-century Indian katar (कटार), or punching sword.

I'm skeptical because one source didn't mention it and another is a book I'm unable to check.

Only news item I could find:

Books have more:

I also found a book which uses this term to refer to Pata (sword):

So for now I think I'll create it as a disambiguation page. Given the parenthesis, maybe punching dagger would be an appropriate term for a katar, rather than sword, even if some people refer to the Katar as a sword?

It's a bit blurry, a Katar seems around the size of a long dagger or a short sword, and the LD/SS barrier isn't always clear. ScratchMarshall (talk) 04:57, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Katar (dagger)


text:
Majed Abdullah

Majed Ahmed Abdullah (ماجد احمد عبد الله; born 11 January 1959) is a Saudi Arabian former professional footballer who played as a striker for Al Nassr FC and the Saudi Arabia national team. He is the all-time leading goal scorer for Saudi Arabia with 72 goals in 117 games. At the club level, he is the record goal scorer for Al-Nassr and the all-time top scorer of the Saudi Pro League. He was often referred to by his nickname "The Arabian Pelé".

Majed Abdullah is regarded as one of the greatest Western Asian strikers of all time. He was nominated for IFFHS Asia's Player of the Century, finishing third place. He spent his entire club career at Al-Nassr, and scored 189 league goals in a twenty-one-year career. During this time, Al-Nassr established themselves as one of the dominant forces in Saudi and Asian football. With Abdullah leading the attack, Al-Nassr won five League titles and four King Cup titles as well as the 1997–98 Asian Cup Winners' Cup. Abdullah also finished as the Saudi League top scorer six times throughout his career. Majed Abdullah retired from football in 1998, after Al-Nassr's Asian Cup Winners' Cup Final victory over Suwon Samsung Bluewings.

His success was not limited to the domestic stage. In 1984 Saudi Arabia qualified for their first-ever global international tournament at the Olympic Games in Los Angeles. Abdullah scored their only goal as Saudi Arabia lost all three group games. International success did come in 1984, however, in the Asian Cup in Singapore. Saudi Arabia beat China 2–0 in the final to take the title for the first time, with Abdullah scoring the second goal. Four years later in 1988, he would score twice in the tournament in Qatar as the Saudi team retained the title by beating South Korea on penalties.

Early life
Majed was born to a Sudanese family in the Al-Baghdadia District in Jeddah. Majed is the second son of Ahmed Abdullah. Living close to a sports club alongside being the son of a football manager piqued Majed's interest in football. In the mid-1960s, Abdullah and his family moved to Riyadh where his father got a job as the manager of Al-Nassr's youth team. Abdullah enrolled in Al-Jazaeria Elementary School and he passionately watched the older kids play football. A couple of years later, Majed joined the school football team as well as the neighborhood team. He used to play as a goalkeeper. One day the team's striker was absent and Majed had to replace him. This position change proved to be successful as Majed guided his team to a 3–1 victory. Abdullah's family moved to Hotat Khaled District and the young Abdullah joined Al-Motawasta Al-Thania high school. Majed and his neighbors formed a team they called "Al-Ittifaq". They tried to participate in a tournament but their request was rejected due to their young age. They did not give up and challenged one of Riyadh's best neighborhood teams for a place in that tournament. Al-Ittifaq won the match 3–1 with Abdullah scoring twice. Al-Ittifaq participated in the tournament and they went on to win the championship.

Club career
Mohammed Al-Hudayan, a teammate at Al-Ittifaq, recommended Abdullah to Al-Nassr president Prince Abdulrahman Bin Saud, as did Al-Ittifaq's coach Nasseb Awad to Khaled Al-Turki and Al-Nassr coach Ljubiša Broćić. Broćić went to see Abdullah unannounced at Al-Ittifaq's training field in Al-Batha and requested that the club sign him. Abdullah officially joined Al-Nassr on 10 November 1975.

Abdullah spent 2 years playing for the youth teams before being promoted to the senior team. He made his senior debut in a friendly against Moroccan side Al-Fath in January 1977. He made his competitive debut on 20 January 1977 by coming off the bench in the league match against Al-Shabab replacing Ibrahim Al-Hamoud. Abdullah once again came off the bench in the 2–1 defeat to Al-Qadsiah on 14 March 1977 to make his second appearance for Al-Nassr. On 18 March, Abdullah made his first start as well as score his first goal for Al-Nassr, when he headed in Nasser Al-Johar's cross, in the league match against Al-Wehda. Following an injury to first-choice striker Mohammad Al-Abdeli, Abdullah was given a chance to prove himself. He repaid that trust by scoring three goals in the final three rounds of the league against Al-Shabab, Al-Ahli and derby rivals Al-Hilal. On 5 May 1977, Abdullah scored twice in the 4–0 against Hajer in the 1977 King Cup. He then scored twice against Al-Nahda in the Round of 16 and scored the opener in the 2–1 win against Al-Qadsiah in the quarter-finals. Al-Nassr were eventually eliminated in the semi-finals by Al-Hilal. He ended his first season at Al-Nassr scoring nine goals in ten appearances. Abdullah started his second season with Al-Nassr poorly, failing to score in his first three matches. On 4 November 1977, Abdullah scored a brace against Al-Nahda to score his first goals of the 1977–78 season. He then scored the only goal in a 1–0 win against Al-Qadsiah on 10 November. Abdullah scored his fourth goal of the season in a 1–0 win against Al-Ittihad. On 29 December, Abdullah was injured and forced to leave the pitch in the derby against Al-Hilal. He made his return on 12 January 1978 and scored in the 2–1 win against Al-Ettifaq. On 17 February, Abdullah scored the only goal in a 1–0 away win against Al-Nahda, his sixth of the season. On 2 March, Abdullah scored his first hattrick for Al-Nassr in the 4–0 win against Ohod. On 10 March, he scored his second hattrick in the 3–1 away win against Al-Ittihad. On 30 March, Abdullah scored twice against Al-Shate'e in the Round of 32 of the 1978 King Cup. Al-Nassr were eliminated by eventual champions Al-Ahli in the Round of 16. Majed ended the 1977–78 season scoring 14 goals in 19 appearances.

Majed Abdullah finished as the Saudi League top scorer 6 times in his career. He also won the League 4 times as well as the King Cup 4 times. Majed is the all-time top scorer of the Saudi League with 189 goals and is also Al-Nassr's all-time top scorer with 260 goals. Majed Abdullah announced his retirement on 12 April 1998 following Al-Nassr's win in the 1998 Asian Cup Winner's Cup in front of 70,000 fans in Riyadh.

International career
Majed made his senior team debut in 1978 in an unofficial friendly against Portuguese giants Benfica where he scored 2 goals. His official debut was against China on 10 December 1978. Majed represented Saudi national team in 2 Asian Cups, 5 Arabian Gulf Cups, the 1984 Olympic Games and the 1994 FIFA World Cup. He retired from the National Team shortly after the 1994 World Cup.

Club
Source:

International

 * Statistics accurate as of match played 29 June 1994

Firsts in Majed's life

 * First training camp with Al-Nassr was in London in 1976.
 * First training camp with the National Team (under 17) was also in London in 1977.
 * First coach with Al-Nassr was Ljubiša Broćić
 * First coach with the National Team (under 17) was Jeff Faundon.
 * First shirt number with Al-Nassr was 14.
 * First shirt number with the National Team was 17.
 * First match with Al-Nassr was against Al-Fath from Morocco in a friendly in 15-1-1977.
 * First official match with Al-Nassr was against Al-Shabab in 22-1-1977.
 * First goal with Al-Nassr was against Al-Wehda in 18-3-1977.
 * First international goal was against Iran under 17 in 15-8-1977.
 * First goal with the Saudi Senior Team was in a friendly against Benfica in January 1978.
 * First official goal with the Saudi Senior Team was against Kenya in January 1978.
 * First official Globally goal with the Saudi Senior Team was against Brazil in Olympic Games Los Angeles 1984.
 * First "League Top Scorer" Trophy was in 1978–1979 season.

Lasts in Majed's life

 * Last local match was against Al-Hilal in 1996–1997 season.
 * Last local goal was against Al-Ittifaq in January 1997.
 * Last local trophy was the Saudi Premier League 1994–1995 season.
 * Last International match was against Belgium during 1994 FIFA World Cup in 29-6-1994.
 * Last International goal was against Kuwait during 1994 FIFA World Cup qualifications.
 * Last Globally goal with the Saudi Senior Team was against Brazil in Golden Cup Confederations in Australia 1988.
 * Last goal with Al-Nassr was against Kopetdag of Turkmenistan in 11-4-1998.
 * Last match with Al-Nassr was against Suwon Samsung Bluewings in the Asian Cup Winners Cup final on 13-4-1998.
 * Last "League Top Scorer" Trophy was in 1988–1989 season.

Player
Al-Nassr
 * Saudi Premier League: 1979–80, 1980–81, 1988–89, 1994–95
 * Saudi King Cup: 1981, 1986, 1987, 1990
 * GCC Club Cup: 1996, 1997
 * Asian Cup Winners' Cup: 1997–98

Saudi Arabia
 * AFC Asian Cup: 1984, 1988
 * Asian Games silver medal: 1986
 * Arab Nations Cup runner-up: 1992

Individual
 * Saudi Premier League top scorer: 1978–79, 1979–80, 1980–81, 1982–83, 1985–86, 1988–89
 * Saudi King Cup top scorer: 1979, 1987, 1989, 1990
 * Arabian Golden Boot: 1981, 1989
 * Arabian Gulf Cup top scorer: 1982
 * Asia-Oceania Soccer Handbook Player of the Year: 1984
 * Pan Arab Games top scorer: 1985
 * Asian All Stars: 1985
 * Saudi Crown Prince Cup top scorer: 1991
 * GCC Club Cup top scorer: 1991, 1996
 * MasterCard Asian/Oceanian Team of the 20th Century: 1998
 * IFFHS Asia's Player of the 20th Century third place: 1999
 * IFFHS World's Player of the 20th Century 64th place: 2000
 * IFFHS Asian Men's Team of the 20th Century: 2021
 * IFFHS Asian Men's Team of All Time: 2021

Manager
Al-Nassr
 * Asian Super Cup: 1998

Retirement match

On 20 May 2008, 10 years after Abdullah's last match, a testimonial match was held between Al-Nassr and Real Madrid, who were just crowned with their 31st La Liga title. The match was held at Al-Nassr's home ground, the King Fahd International Stadium in Riyadh. Al-Nassr won the match 4–1 with 70,000 fans in attendance. The match saw players from other clubs such as Mohamed Al-Deayea, Malek Mouath and Nashat Akram represent Al-Nassr. Arjen Robben broke the deadlock at the 50th before Mouath and Akram scored in quick succession. Saud Kariri then added a third in the 61st before Mouath scored the fourth goal in the first minute of stoppage time.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Majed Abdullah


text:
Jens Juel (painter)

Jens Juel (12 May 1745 – 27 December 1802) was a Danish painter, primarily known for his many portraits, of which the largest collection is on display at Frederiksborg Castle. He is regarded as the leading Danish portrait painter of the 18th century.

Early life and career
He was born in the house of his mother's brother Johan Jørgensen, who was a school teacher in Balslev on the island of Funen. Jens Juel was the son of Vilhelmine Elisabeth Juel (January 1725 – March 1799), who served at Wedellsborg, and Jørgen Jørgensen (1724 – 4 June 1796), who was a schoolmaster in Gamborg, not far from Balslev, and he grew up in Gamborg.

Juel showed an interest in painting from an early age, and his parents sent him to be an apprentice of painter Johann Michael Gehrman in Hamburg, where he worked hard for five or six years and improved so much that he acquired a reputation as a painter of portraits, landscapes, etc. During the time of his studies, he could live off painting landscapes, portraits and genre pictures. At just over twenty years old, he moved to Copenhagen to attend the Royal Danish Academy of Art. In 1767 he was awarded its small gold medal and in 1771 the great gold medal, both for Biblical themes.

In 1772 Juel left Copenhagen, moving to Rome where he stayed for four years together with other Danish artists, including Nicolai Abildgaard. From Rome, he moved to Paris, at the time a center of portrait painting. In 1777 he moved on to Geneva, where he stayed for two years at the home of his friend Charles Bonnet in the company of other Danish artists, including etcher Johann Friderich Clemens. In Geneva, Juel soon earned a reputation as an excellent artist, and he painted many portraits. He illustrated with three other artists the Naturalist and philosophical History of Bonnet.

Through Bonnet, who had become an honorary member of the Danish Academy, his reputation reached Denmark. After a brief stay in Hamburg, where he met and painted a portrait of the poet Friedrich Gottlieb Klopstock, author of The Messiah, he returned to Copenhagen in 1780. Here he painted portraits for the royal house, nobility, and the well-to-do, as well as landscapes and genre paintings and was designated as the court painter.

On 4 April 1782, he was unanimously elected to be a member of the Danish Academy by Mandelberg, Weidenhaupt, and Abildgaard. He became the director of the Academy in 1795 and continued in the position until his death.

Juel is buried at Assistens Cemetery in Copenhagen.

title: Jens Juel (painter)


text:
Talk:Non Sequitur (comic strip)

Characters
how about charactors such as obviousman? that's a favourite also :D
 * And Homer? -- WikidSmaht (talk) 20:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Rõlf
Is Rõlf Brenda's dog? I think so from the strip around October 10 2006, but someone with a subscription shall now need to answer this, as free access has just expired. Certainly Brenda accepted some responsibility when Rõlf and Petey escaped together in helping Joe with the search...
 * He isn't. Currently we only know he is a dog living near by Danae, but he can be seen in many older strips in the background. He's also in the cover of Beastly things Mamlsmds 12:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

This strip is available on yahoo. It can be added to one's "My Yahoo" free of charge.

Archives are available ...
"The strip can be found online at gocomics.com (although archives are only viewable with an account)"

I've been reading the archives at gocomics.com over the last few days, without an account and without being asked to sign in. Are there older archives that are unavailable? (The strips I can see go back to '92.) 78.105.207.25 (talk) 20:43, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Current status/schedule
Could someone please clarify in the article the current status/schedule? By that I mean, if it's still being published or if it's finished. Please add it at the right of the article, just below the profile picture, just like the other popular comic strips. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.1.220.13 (talk) 22:30, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

The character "Bob"
The current entry says that "Bob is patterned after Richard Nixon, and is drawn to resemble Nixon." This entry does not provide a citation, and is in conflict with the author's statements, most recently in the 12/03/2023 strip comments. In that he says, "I patterned him after my favorite character actor, Dabney Coleman (note the mustache on Bob), not just in appearance but in his sharp demeanor." I would recommend that the entry be changed to that or to remove any mention of inspiration. Defaultuserbr (talk) 22:50, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I tried posting on gocomics, but there must be some problem with having a new account. would you please let them know I figured out how to source Wiley's desired edit. It is technically against Wikipedia's rules but because Wiley has a verified account on gocomics, I think it should work.HarleyRandomBoy 23:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Non Sequitur (comic strip)


text:
Rancho

Rancho or Ranchos may refer to:

Settlements and communities

 * Rancho, Aruba, former fishing village and neighbourhood of Oranjestad
 * Ranchos of California, 19th century land grants in Alta California
 * List of California Ranchos
 * Ranchos, Buenos Aires in Argentina

Schools

 * Rancho Christian School in Temecula, California
 * Rancho High School in North Las Vegas, Nevada
 * Rancho San Joaquin Middle School in Irvine, California
 * Rancho Solano Preparatory School in Scottsdale, Arizona
 * Rancho Verde High School in Moreno Valley, California

Film

 * Rancho, a character in the Bollywood film 3 Idiots
 * Rancho (monkey), an Indian monkey animal actor

Other

 * Rancho, a shock absorber brand by Tenneco Automotive
 * Rancho carnavalesto or Rancho, a type of dance club from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
 * Rancho Los Amigos National Rehabilitation Center or Rancho
 * Rancho Point, a rock headland in the South Shetland Islands
 * Matra Rancho or Rancho, an early French leisure activity vehicle

title: Rancho


text:
Talk:Estrous cycle

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 30 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Samsmith428. Peer reviewers: Mkarasik, Lithopslover.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Comments
The google test suggests 'estrus cycle' is preferable to 'estrous cycle', while ,strictly speaking, the corresponding analogue to 'menstrual cycle' is 'estrous cycle'. But so it is.Ekem 18:10, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No it doesn't. Estrous/Oestrous cycle beats estrus/oestrus by 600 000 to 120 000.User:Laven 11:49, 26 Apr 2006 (GST)
 * The "Google test" is a rough guide when you have no other linguistic determination, but in this case we do. The ending "-ous" is used for adjectives, whereas "-us" is used for nouns. So "estrous" describes the type of cycle relating to the event called "estrus." Compare with "mucous," which describes a membrane that relates to the substance "mucus." Illexsquid (talk) 04:47, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

In find the "zoophile" paragraph to be both irrelevant and inaccurate. Since when is "observer of animal behaviour" an accurate definition of "zoophile"? It certainly does not correspond to the definition on the linked "zoophilia" page. And in what jurisdiction is their "theory itself" illegal?

Does this article's subject concerns humans?
having read all the article i am unable to find relative information for human females "women". I wanted to know how this cycle is related to periods in women and the common belief that ovulation is strong in this cycle? but this article currently seems to be created to inform vets only. 119.73.112.6 (talk) 15:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This article as of today is quite explicit in that it does not discuss the menstrual cycle, which humans and other apes undergo, but rather the estrous cycle, which is the reproductive cycle experienced by most placental mammals. Well-meaning people seem to keep trying to add information about humans to this article; the article on the menstrual cycle is the appropriate place for that. Illexsquid (talk) 04:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Differences from the menstrual cycle
The very end of this section states that studies show that women have the most sexual activity just prior to ovulation. Anecdotally from my own experience corroborated from some women I know differs from this statement as does this quote: "One little problem with this theory. Surveys show sex occurs most frequently around the time of menstruation, when women are LEAST fertile. So either the theory is BS, or male cluelessness is more deep-seated than we thought.    Which is quoted from here http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_306.html

which is used as a refrence here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Menstrual_cycle On one hand I guess my point is that both study findings can't be right but what I was really hoping for was an explanation/justification for why the quote I've placed here (and agree with) would be correct. I'm stumped as to what biological sense this could make except perhaps to actually forestall pregnancy in ancient times until the sexually mature young women were actually a little older and more likely to survive childbirth.--Xiaou 09:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)xiaou

Here's something I found odd, the article claims that animals that undergo estrus, rather than menstruation, do not expel their unused gonna-be-placenta whatever.. So, what is that that comes out? They sure -seem- to menstruate, which can make a mess if you don't spay or diaper your indoor dog in heat

Estrus Cycle
The correct spelling when describing the cycle is "estrous" or "oestrous" (the latter commonly is used in the UK). The word estrous is the adjective form of estrus; as it is used to describe the cycle, estrous is the proper spelling. Estrus is a specific phase of the estrous cycle. Source: Pathways to Pregnancy and Parturition by Phillip L. Senger, 1997. 207.238.30.19 19:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that the part about the spelling of estrus/estrous/oestrous/oestrus, which is currently in "Differences from the menstrual cycle", be in "Etymology and nomenclature".--24.116.241.207 17:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Frequency
See Estrus -- how precisly are foxes bith polyestrous and diestrous? •Jim 62 sch• 20:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Mating season
"Mating season" links here. Where is discussion of mating season? We need this. Fresheneesz 03:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Bird Reproductive Cycles
There isn't anything on this page about birds and their reproductive cycles. If there is a page devoted to that, I haven't got a clue what it might be called (as noted above, Mating Season, which was the closest and only link I found that might be useful, links here instead).Dusk Raven (talk) 21:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC) !
 * Birds are not mammals, so there is no reason they would be listed on the page. The page talks about the oestral cycle of mammalian placental females. That includes all mammals except monotremes (as the platypus and the echidna or spiny anteater) and the marsupials or pouched mammals (as kangaroos, opossums, wombats, dasyures as Tasmanian devil, phalangers, and the banded anteater or numbat.Jon (talk) 07:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Alternative Estrus Explanation
The accepted explanation for the estrus behavior of the female ( "heat") makes no sense.

The only hormone which induces sexual excitement is testosterone. Serum testosterone levels in the estrus female are actually lower than at other times in the fertility cycle.

An alternative explanation for that proactive behavior, in which the female of the species in heat seeks to mate with any proximate male of the species, is in differences in the pelvic floor between species of placental mammals which have estrus and species which do not.

Examining the comparative anatomy of the genital structures of the estrus and non-estrus species shows that the structures in the clitoris are different in one particular; the location of the vestibular bulbs. These bodies are homologous, in gross appearance and in histology, to the bulbous glandis of the penis. In the dog the latter are the prominent bodies which lock the penis in the vagina during coitus.

In the estrus female the vestibular bulbs are located directly against the glans clitoridis. At the beginning of estrus, they are inflated with blood, via a blood supply separate from the rest of the clitoris. This puts pressure on the glans, producing stimulation of the Pathian bodies in that structure. As long as the vestibular bulbs are inflated, the female will experience sexual excitement, even without testosterone.

In women, a non-estrus species, the vestibular bulbs have migrated out of the clitoris and are now along the urethra near to the fossa of that body. No matter how much they may swell during ovulation, they cannot induce sexual excitement by stimulating the glans.

This explanation for the absence of estrus in H.sapiens was probably brought about by a change in the timing of the closing of the pelvic ring at the pelvic (pubic) symphysis. Arne97 (talk) 13:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Specific species
Why put bovine, ewe, and goat in the same subcategory under this category? The ewe is a female sheep. Goats and sheep are both bovines, as are antelopes (except the pronghorn which is not a true antelope), gorals, serows, bison, buffalo, oxen, and numerous different species, as the musk-ox, chamois, and takin. It would have been sufficient to just put bovine, pig, and elephant in that list, or put in goat and sheep, but leave out bovine.Jon (talk) 07:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

mating season redirects here, but there is nothing on mating season
especially of non-mammallian species. Think of the wikilinkers please! TCO (talk) 18:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Comment removed from article
The following remark had found its way in the "Differences from the menstrual cycle" section as an HTML comment. Without researching it I can't see how long it's been there, but it looks like a while. It's very difficult to see why it is good to have it in there as a comment, so I am moving it here. I'm sorry that is author remains unknown unless someone wants to do the work. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:31, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Comment from unknown author
This information does not help me one bit! In addition, there are behavioural changes in women during their fertile period, including increased walking (which is thought to be goal orientated, towards locations of known higher quality males, ie social gatherings etc that are analogous to 'watering holes'), decreased food, salt and water intake (which is thought to be an evolutionary strategy to allow them more time for pair finding), increased skin exposure, and women tend to wear clothes that they perceive to be more sexy). There are also a number of physical changes including: increased voice pitch; increase in gynoid content of breast fat; decreased hip:waist ratio; more attractive 'scent'; more attractive skin; gait changes.

Edit summaries
Could editors please please try to remember to use edit summaries here? I shouldn't be editing this article at all with my lack of knowledge of biology and I am likely to stop now but at least if editors used edit summaries we'd know what they were driving at and people like me night revert you less readily. Without it, as the Help:Edit summary article says, all sorts of problems are caused. If you make an edit and don't use one I don't think you should be surprised at being reverted, no matter how knowledgeable and correct your edit actually is! Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:38, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Difference between menstrual cycle and estrus cycle?
What is this exactly? I understand them as the same thing. It does go to say that mammals who have estrus absorb the endometrium and those that menstruate discard it instead, but then it goes to say that humans, that menstruate, go into estrus.

I have some interesting questions: 1) Do all females that present menstruation undergo menstrual cycles?. Answer this with references, please. Menstruation is present in some species of bats and shrew that are not closely related to apes, hence we can't asume that they undergo menstrual cycles. 2) Could it be that there is a spectrum of cycles in mammals, and that the difference between estrous and menstrous cycles is not so easy to tell in many cases?. 3) In the end, it results that what defines more clearly a mentrual cycle is that it is a continous cycle in non pregnant females, while in estrous cycles there is phase that is more or less prolongated in which the females are "resting". What is the relationship between these continous ovarian activity in the menstrual cycle and menstruation itself?. Are they necesarily connected, or could there be mensrtual cycles without menstruations? (always talking about not pregnant females).

I agree with the former comment in that the differences between estrous and menstrual cycles is not well explained in the article. I know that the words estrus and estrous are very similar and can be confused, but in any case it would be better to start by telling which are the names of the ovarian phases in both cycles before going into explaining the differences. Also, the text dedicated to tell these differences is very vague, it should point clearly what are the anatomical and phisiologycal differences between both types of cyles during the different phases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.136.185.152 (talk) 07:44, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Human female sexual receptive behaviour in estrous
Currently there is only a brief mention of female human sexual behaviour during estrous. It may be beneficial to further expand on this given available literature and research which explores the effects of estrous on female sexual preference. For example, preferences for facial masculinity and preferences for the scent of symmetry. Additionally, discussing how such preferences indicate attraction to markers of genetic fitness in mates may successfully add a supplementary section of relevant information to the article.

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513810000681 Gangestad, S. W., Thornhill, R., & Garver-Apgar, C. E. (2010). Men's facial masculinity predicts changes in their female partners' sexual interests across the ovulatory cycle, whereas men's intelligence does not. Evolution and Human Behavior, 31(6), 412-424.]

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513808000044 Garver-Apgar, C. E., Gangestad, S. W., & Thornhill, R. (2008). Hormonal correlates of women's mid-cycle preference for the scent of symmetry. Evolution and Human Behavior, 29(4), 223-232.]

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513899000057 Thornhill, R., & Gangestad, S. W. (1999). The scent of symmetry: a human sex pheromone that signals fitness?. Evolution and human behavior, 20(3), 175-201.]

--EmmaOrton (talk) 23:18, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

 * EmmaOrton, I'm sure that the reason the article barely discusses humans is because, like the Differences from the menstrual cycle section currently states, "Humans have menstrual cycles rather than estrous cycles." As seen by this and this Google Books search, that is widely supported in the literature, though there are researchers, especially the evolutionary biologist type, like Randy Thornhill, who "argue that women have not lost estrus." And I see you've cited him above. The section is clear that "In species with estrous cycles, females are generally only sexually active during the estrus phase of their cycle (see below for an explanation of the different phases in an estrous cycle). This is also referred to as being 'in heat.' In contrast, females of species with menstrual cycles can be sexually active at any time in their cycle, even when they are not about to ovulate." Wikipedia goes by WP:Due weight, and so the topic of human estrus should not be given too much weight in this article. What you want to add would be more appropriate for the Ovulation article and/or the Concealed ovulation article. That stated, this article should include the evolutionary viewpoint that human females once had estrus, lost it, and that some researchers believe that human females still have it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:56, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Flyer22 Reborn That's not right. You're correct in your characterisation of Thornhill. But to suggest that he is alone in this is not accurate. There's a large body of evidence, which converges on the finding that women's behaviour mid-cycle (i.e. at estrus) is different than outside of that window. You're also right in saying that women are sexually receptive outside of their fertile window. However, your definition of estrus (as akin to being 'in heat') is misleading. I believe that EmmaOrton is referring to the theory of dual sexuality, which provides an account for women's continued sexual behaviour across the menstrual cycle. Nmuggleton (talk) 10:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Nmuggleton, I did not state or suggest that Thornhill is alone on arguing that women have an estrus cycle, or on anything else. I stated that the "Humans have menstrual cycles rather than estrous cycles" aspect is widely supported in the literature, though there are researchers, especially the evolutionary biologist type, like Randy Thornhill, who argue that women have not lost estrus. In this case, those like Thornhill are the minority. And Wikipedia, per WP:Due weight, goes by the majority viewpoint far more than the minority viewpoint. I have not provided a definition of estrus (unless you mean me quoting the "In species with estrous cycles" text), so I don't see how I've been misleading on it. I've been clear that content about women having estrus cycles should not be in this article, unless included from the evolutionary viewpoint that human females once had estrus, lost it, and that some researchers believe that human females still have it. Otherwise, since scholarly sources usually state that women have menstrual cycles, as opposed to estrus cycles, the menstrual cycle content is a better fit for the Menstrual cycle article; this was suggested in the section below, and a class is currently adding such material to that article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 11:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

__

Addition of a section on the estrus cycle and sexual behaviour
We would like to add a section on how women act differently during different stages of the ovarian cycle. We will look at this from an evolutionary perspective, focusing on how it the cycle affects women's sexual behaviour. JS.Chester 123hs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcuf235 (talk • contribs) 14:59, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Rcuf235, see what I stated in the section above. Be sure to point your class to that statement as well. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Flyer22 Reborn, thank you for pointing this out to us. Taking your comments on board we are considering adding this section to the Menstrual cycle page instead. Looking at what you have written above in the, would the menstrual cycle page be a more appropriate page for our contributions? JS.Chester (talk) 19:56, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

 * JS.Chester, hmm, perhaps. It is true that many women report being more likely to engage in sexual behavior at certain points of their menstrual cycle. You all would need to take particular care with that article, though, since it's WP:Featured. I'll contact WP:Med to weigh in on this. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Contacted. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * as Flyer22 Reborn indicated it is Featured, however content in question seems to add positively to article..IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:55, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Section on Estrus could be more detailed
- The definition for estrus is too simple here. There is evidence to show that not only is estrus marked by increased sexual receptivity, it is also marked by an increase in proceptivity (referring to the courting phase that occurs before copulation).

- This section also fails to mention some of the physiological changes that may occur during estrus across some species. Such information is important from an evolutionary perspective as it helps to explain why estrus has been selected as a trait. For example, female chimpanzees develop swellings around the genital area during estrus, advertsising to potential mates that they are nearing a stage of increased fertility. In terms of explaining how estrus came to be selected this is important as it increases the chances of conception (by signalling fertility and thus increasing the chances of mating with a male).

- This section also fails to elaborate on some of behavioural changes that often occur during estrus, and why these have been important in its selection as a trait. For example, important function of increased sexual receptivity is that it can result in parental confusion in males ('parental confusion hypothesis'), which can help elicit material rewards from these males. In species such as chimpanzees, for example, males are known to kill offspring that do not belong to them; consequently, if males are uncertain regarding their parental status, they are less likely to kill the new offspring, thus increasing its chances of survival.

LiamW1265 (talk) 12:17, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

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"Ostrus" listed at Redirects for discussion
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title: Talk:Estrous cycle


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 June 5

I have tried to add Category: Peachpit Press Books and Category: Google Books here, but cannot seem to format them correctly. Could someone please figure it out for me? Thank you very much, You 18:10, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * Moved to Categories_for_deletion --Tabor 22:39, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)


text:
Celaleddin Koçak

Celaleddin Koçak (born 24 November 1977 in West Berlin, West Germany) is a Turkish footballer.

He began his career at Tennis Borussia Berlin but found little success there. Like many young footballers born to Turkish immigrant parents in Germany, he tried his chances by joining a Turkish team. In December 1999, he decided to join Altay S.K. of İzmir. Six months later he had been impressive enough to earn a place at Süper Lig side MKE Ankaragücü. He stayed there for two years, joining Diyarbakırspor in 2002. Here he helped the newly promoted side to remain in the top division.

In summer 2003, Koçak joined Malatyaspor and it was here that he really made a name for himself. As well as helping Malatyaspor to a mid table place, he was particularly impressive in their performances in the UEFA Cup.

The next year, he joined Ziya Doğan, who had brought him to Malatyaspor a year earlier, at Trabzonspor. Again, he established himself in the team from the beginning and became a regular as Trabzonspor finished as runners up in the league.

Koçak in a left sided player who can alternate between defence and midfield. At Trabzonspor, he was used primarily in defence. His abilities lie in his power and speed which help him to make forward runs as well as defending effectively.

title: Celaleddin Koçak


text:
Talk:Gender of connectors and fasteners

Untitled
Wow, no references. And for USB, who is he male and who is the female conenctor? Keul (talk) 16:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Done 8^) Reify-tech (talk) 15:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Easy - the actual connections are hermaphrodite, and the devices usually on the end of the cable are plugs, the mating half usually on chassis or panel is therefore a hermaphrodite socket or receptacle. I am fairly certain that the old usage was to describe the actual connecting part first, and its apparent function next. eg the thing on the kettle was a male receptacle/socket, and the bit on the cable was a female plug. (This was never normally applied to the other end of the cable, which had a "plug", not a "male connector", which entered a "socket", not a female connector; these terms of course imported from a pre-electronics era!)Ripov (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:29, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Shouldn't the third and fourth paragraphs be switched? 68.226.124.199 03:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't know what this meant when written, probably irrelevant now. Reify-tech (talk) 15:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I am trying to understand the precise definition of male and female connectors. Is it really true that the C13 plug/connector is male? The oracle that is google seems to think its female, and so do I. I would like to see a proper reference for this classification. As far as I can see, the C13 is a wonderful example of a female plug. Arbor 18:11, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, and I suggested this to Smyth on his talk page, and his response suggests to me that he didn't really mean to imply it wasn't. I haven't got around to changing it; feel free to do so, especially if you can cite references. Sharkford 13:52, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

"The gender of a connector is determined by the structure of its primary functional components—i.e., the conductors of an electrical connector, or the load-bearing parts of a fastener—and not by secondary features such as covers, shields or handles that may be installed for environmental protection, safe operation, etc."

 * This has always confused me. It would be great if we could have more examples, like D-subminiature, XLR, IEC connectors, and so on.  Pictures showing male and female would be even better. - Omegatron 17:17, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

`The gender of a connector is determined by the structure of its primary functional components' ... much of the time, perhaps, but not everybody agrees. For example, the `Futaba 12" Servo Male Connector J' at http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXH441&P=0 is called male, though looking at the connectors themselves one would call it female. (This connector has metal `holes' into which pins from the matching connectors fit into.  The assigned gender of this connector obviously comes from that of the plastic housing rather than the `primary functional components'.)  Doug McLaren 21:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Male connectors are more easily damaged by bending. I believe that the Apple Macintosh was designed with all female connectors on the computer, as it is easier to replace a damaged cable than a port on the computer. Can anyone verify this? DPoon 13:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Earlier Macs that used D-shell connectors only had female connectors of that type on the computer, I believe in part for the reason you cite. Other connectors were generally female as well, though the IEC-320 power input jack would probably be considered male. I would say that all the connectors used on modern Macs are female as well, though I could envision an argument about the gender of USB and Firewire chassis connectors. Whatever gender you think they are, they are well standardized and designed to minimize the likelihood of damage from repeated insertions.  One other possible exception is the console serial port used on the Xserve Macs. These are the same DB-9 types used on PCs and they may be male, I'm not sure. In this case Apple needed to be compatable with the console switches used in server farms.--agr 05:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Historically, prior to the feminism/70's?, female connectors were referred to as Jills. Jack(s) and Jill(s) were usually reserved as jargon amongst the male trade workers. Find an old tech (guy) to ask, because I'm pretty sure no one documented it. Really don't understand how Jack survived and ended up being both. 143.238.123.8 (talk) 15:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Interesting. Can anybody find some useful citations or references for this?  Even mention in fictional works would help document this usage, if no official refs can be found. Reify-tech (talk) 15:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

 * I believe I've tracked down the origin of 'jack', meaning telephone socket. See Talk:Jack_plug (disclaimer: original research, but with references). In the 1880s there was no mention of Jills, so perhaps that was a humorous addition thought up in the 20th century. --Heron (talk) 11:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I was active in ham radio and electronics during the '60s, and collected equipment from the '40s and '50s. Phone plugs and phone jacks, RCA plugs and RCA jacks, and other kinds of plugs and jacks were in common use in radio and telephone equipment under those exact names. Jacks were also called "sockets", but I never read or heard of anyone calling a plug a "jack" or a jack a "jill". That would have been incredibly confusing! This is clearly just something that someone made up as a joke. Michael Geary (talk) 12:58, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Talk:Coaxial power connector is worth a look too.
 * From telephone use, a "jack" was always formally the socket. Hence jack plug, as a plug for a jack (rather than itself being a jack). Andy Dingley (talk) 14:42, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Examples
A picture is worth a thousand words. As people have posted above, we need more examples. I think the text could probably be reduced if there were a thorough list of labeled pictures of male and female connectors, particularly tricky ones like VGA. —Ben FrantzDale (talk) 23:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Question on SKT / PL abbreviations
Hi!

I just tried to order D-Sub connectors at a big electronics-shop. They use the "male" / "female" names but also two abbreviations called "SKT" and "PL" at the gender description. I googled a little but could not find any reference, what that stands for. As the had no meaningful images I can only guess, that it stands for "Socket" and "Plug". Perhaps this could be integrated in the article if anyone knows for sure, what the meaning is...

Thanks, Andy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.144.1.62 (talk) 15:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Gender vs Sex
It is somewhat curious that the word 'gender' is used with 'male' and 'female', which are terms denoting sex (whereas 'masculine' and 'feminine' are related but distinct terms for gender). It would be lovely if someone with a background in linguistics of gender could summarise relevant literature on this topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.29.4.217 (talk) 17:54, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Sex would definitely be more correct for this article, basically sex is on the body, gender is in the mind.Jackintosh11 (talk) 00:43, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I agree with User:Andy Dingley (who reverted your abrupt changes) that "gender" is the WP:COMMONNAME that is used in serious technical documentation for this topic. Please do not make undiscussed, unannounced, and unsourced major changes to articles in an attempt to conform established usage to your pet philosophy. Reify-tech (talk) 04:37, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

 * It does need to be changed from gender to sex. This is not a "pet philosophy" as a traitor might call it. It is the scientifically accurate explanation. This is a technical issue. Sex is the word that is used in biology, for example. Usage of gender for a Wikipedia commonname or whatever is simply an error, not an opinion. How do we go about correcting this here and site-wide? Firebombzero (talk) 20:21, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

 * "Gender" is used in technical documentation and serious discussions. The word "sex" has too many irrelevant meanings and connotations unrelated to the subject treated here. This is a technical article documenting industry usage, not a political forum for language reform. Your references to "scientifically accurate" and "traitor" aren't very relevant to any useful discussion. Reify-tech (talk) 20:42, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Reify-tech is correct here: gender is the word people actually use, which is what matters. This article is not about human identity, biology, culture or sexuality. Additionally, the strong distinction claimed between the words sex and gender is both recent and observed only within particular communities. Dictionaries like the American Heritage and Merriam-Webster list sex as the primary definition for the non-grammatical usage of gender. (Words take their meaning from how they are actually used. Technical prescriptions about language are only prescriptive within that technical discipline.) Differentiated usage of sex and gender is clearly growing in popularity, but it is not at present an "error" to use gender to mean sex in a general setting. (This is off topic, but I will also say that I believe you generally harm your cause if you make people feel scolded over things that lack any signs of malice.) Gerweck (talk) 02:41, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

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USB connectors, in computing, refer to "plug" and "receptacle"
From article on USB: "The female connector mounted on the host or device is called the receptacle, and the male connector attached to the cable is called the plug.[20](2–5 – 2–6) The official USB specification documents also periodically define the term male to represent the plug, and female to represent the receptacle." From article on USB hardware: "Thus, USB cables have different ends: A and B, with different physical connectors for each. Each format has a plug and receptacle defined for each of the A and B ends. USB cables have plugs, and the corresponding receptacles are on the computers or electronic devices." This article (Gender of connectors...) should be edited to reflect these standards. Oaklandguy (talk) 23:00, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , any reason you are unable to WP:DOIT yourself? ~Kvng (talk) 12:50, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Comparison To Human Gender
I think it’s important to make a distinction here. Gender for connectors was contrived in more “patriarchal” times, where it was thought there were physical differences between male and female humans. Gender of connectors at that time was easy to explain. Now, to explain gender of connectors, one needs to explain the difference between human and connectors with relation to gender. 160.20.230.18 (talk) 16:53, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Really good point. Hopefully someone will expand on this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.246.108.45 (talk) 23:31, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I added "cisgender" to eliminate any possible confusion.--agr (talk) 00:07, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Wonderful insight here. Great to know we’re concerned with doing this right.  As society progresses we may one day also need to address gender of people who identify as fasteners.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.246.108.45 (talk) 22:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The analogy is about biological sex (ergo the sexual connotations) and there are sex differences in humans. The word "gender" is only used because objects can't have a biological sex. It has nothing to do with human gender. Prinsgezinde (talk) 11:34, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason the term gender and male and female was used to refer to the two types of plugs/sockets was that it resembled a penis and vagina, if I may be so frank. At the time it was generally accepted that male's had penis's and woman had vagina. Since then indeed the biological community largely has moved on from the limited conception of gender and sex to the more recent understanding that some people may identify in their brains as a gender other then the one they where assigned at birth based on the type of genitalia that possessed. This is all well and good in biology but doesn't really pertain to the the issue of the gender of connectors and fasteners which do not have a biological sex. Sure, maybe it might have been better if we had come up with a better analogy then "gender" but since we didn't and since this is the current terminology being used in tech/engineering circles, we should continue to use it as it's currently used in the reference to connectors and fasteners per Wikipedia common usage policy. If an alternative term for gender with regard to connectors and fasteners gains traction at some point then we can edit the article to reflect this at that time. But realize as of 2022, Gender in this context is not connected in anyway to biological sex or gender, it's just an analogy to a penis and vagina and no one going to replace the "gender of a connector and fastener" with the "genitals of a  of a connector and fastener" or refer to male and female connectors/testicles as "penis and vagina connectors/testicles" even though that would be more accurate in a modern biological analogy sense.--Notcharliechaplin (talk) 19:22, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
 * This has already been discussed above. TLDR: words are defined by their usage, and 'sex' and 'gender' are used synonymously in common parlance, thus making it perfectly acceptable to treat them as synonymous on most Wikipedia articles (WP:COMMONNAME).
 * As an aside, the is no consensus within the biological community for the existence of an immutable, internal gender; to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Wotb (talk) 15:31, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There are physical differences between male and female humans. 82.12.223.229 (talk) 16:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Genderless vs hermaphrodite vs self-mating
This article conflates genderless, hermaphrodite, self-mating. Yet, they are 3 different things.

 * Sexless (a.k.a. genderless or agender): a connector that has neither male nor female contacts; it may be self-mating (fig. 1.2a) or not (fig. 1.2c)
 * Hermaphrodite: a connector that has both male and female contacts; it could be self-mating (fig. 1.2b) or not (fig. 1.2c)
 * Self-mating: a connector whose mate is identical; it can be sexless (fig. 1.2a) or hermaphrodite (fig. 1.2b)
 * Non self-mating: a connector whose mate is different; it can be sexless (fig. 1.2c) or hermaphrodite (fig. 1.2d)

If there are no objections, I would like to edit the "Genderless (hermaphroditic)" section accordingly.

Davide Andrea (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavideAndrea (talk • contribs) 21:52, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gender of connectors and fasteners


text:
Inger Nilsson

Karin Inger Monica Nilsson (born 4 May 1959) is a Swedish actress and singer. She is a former child actress. She is primarily known for her portrayal of Pippi Longstocking in the Swedish-produced TV series of the same name during 1969 which was compiled, re-dubbed into German and later also in English and many other languages, and released as two feature films in 1969. In 1970, she reprised her role of Pippi in two feature films. In 2005, she was working as a secretary in Stockholm, occasionally taking small stage roles.

Career
Nilsson was eight years old when she was cast as Pippi Longstocking. First, she did a TV series and then four feature films. After Pippi Longstocking, she trained as a medical secretary, but chose to pursue a career as an actress. Nilsson was, among other things, property master at the East Gothland Theatre and acted in several plays.

Since 2007, she has been appearing on the German TV-channel ZDF as the forensic pathologist Ewa in the TV-series Der Kommissar und das Meer (The Inspector and the Sea).

In 2009, Nilsson was a celebrity contestant on Kändisdjungeln.

Awards
In 1975, Nilsson received a TP de Oro award in the "Most Popular Personage" category for her role in Pippi Longstocking TV series.

Filmography

 * 1969 - Pippi Longstocking
 * 1969 - Pippi Goes on Board
 * 1970 - Pippi in the South Seas
 * 1970 - Pippi on the Run
 * 1989 - Brenda Brave
 * 2000 - Gripsholm
 * 2015 - The Here After
 * 2021 – The Hunters

title: Inger Nilsson


text: User talk:71.111.155.77

title: User talk:71.111.155.77


text:
Lipovitan

Lipovitan (リポビタン), marketed in some English-speaking countries under the name Libogen and Livita, is an energy drink manufactured by Taisho Pharmaceutical Co. and its licensee Osotspa. Widely available in Asia, it retails in brown-colored translucent 100 ml bottles and has a distinctive bright yellow color. Lipovitan is marketed to alleviate physical and mental fatigue.

Ingredients
The primary ingredient in the Lipovitan product line is taurine. Stronger formulas of the drink include Lipovitan D, which contains 1000 mg of taurine, 20 mg of nicotinic acid extract (vitamin B3), 5 mg each of vitamin B1, B2 and B6, and 50 mg of caffeine. Lipovitan D Super contains 2000 mg of taurine and 300 mg of arginine. MAXIO contains 3000 mg of taurine. The warning label on all of its products say not to consume more than 100 ml per day.

Lipovitan products are sold in Japan and in stores in countries that carry Asian products.

History
The introduction of Lipovitan predates Red Bull's precursor Krating Daeng by 14 years, having been first released in 1962. Arginine is the main active ingredient in the modified Red Bull sold in Japan.

Sponsorship
The Japan national rugby team is sponsored by Lipovitan D.

title: Lipovitan


text:
Norman Jay Colman

Norman Jay Colman (May 16, 1827 – November 3, 1911) was a politician, attorney, educator, newspaper publisher, and, for 18 days, the first United States secretary of agriculture.

Louisville, Kentucky
Colman was born in Richfield Springs, New York, to son of Nancy (Sprague) and Hamilton Coleman. He later moved to Kentucky to become an educator. While in Louisville, he took the time to attend law school and received a law degree from the University of Louisville Law School in 1849.

Greenville, Indiana
In 1850, Colman became the first principal in Greenville when the Floyd County Seminary opened in Greenville, Indiana. The school was funded by raising $2,000 with Greenville residents contributing an additional $800 to secure the school for their town. For this sum, it was possible to erect a large 2-story brick building on land donated by Isaac Redman. One of the trustees appointed to oversee the new school was John Baptiste Ford of Greenville who was a prominent resident and famous for his glass works.

Colman served as Principal in Greenville for two years. In 1852, the Hoosier legislature approved the first laws establishing the public school system. This spelled the end of the older county seminaries for the new law provided that they be closed and their assets turned over to the new public school systems. Some 100 students had been attending the school paying tuition of $4 to $8 a semester and finding board and lodging in Greenville homes at $1 a week.

The closing of the Seminary proved to be the end of Colman's teaching career. During Colman's time in Greenville, he met Clara Porter and married in 1851. Clara was the daughter of Daniel Porter who is best known for Porter's Public House in Greenville which was a notorious hotel, bar, and social spot. Together they had two children; Laura Kate Colman (1860) and Francis Porter Colman (1862).

Missouri
Colman then moved to Missouri, ostensibly to farm. He was elected as an Alderman for St. Louis city's 5th ward as a Whig in 1854 and 1855 In 1855 he founded the Valley Farmer newspaper. As a result of his publication, Colman became a prominent figure in Missouri farming circles, which set the path for a political career in the Missouri House of Representatives. The publication of Colman's newspaper was interrupted by the American Civil War, but three years after the war he founded the Colman's Rural World. His political career continued, culminating with his election as the 17th Lieutenant Governor of Missouri from 1875 to 1877, as a Democrat.

Commissioner of Agriculture
President Grover Cleveland appointed Colman Commissioner of Agriculture in 1885. During his tenure he led a coalition of land-grant agricultural colleges in writing proposed legislation for the creation of agricultural experiment stations. Their lobbying efforts helped produce the Hatch Act in 1887.

First Secretary of Agriculture
He also lobbied for the creation of the United States Department of Agriculture and served as its inaugural Secretary at the end of Cleveland's term, February 15, 1889, to March 6, 1889. However, his position was never confirmed by the United States Senate.

Retirement
He returned to St. Louis to run his newspaper. He also spent the next 20 years in state public service and in horse-breeding.

He died on November 3, 1911, at age 84 from pneumonia, and is buried in Bellefontaine Cemetery in St. Louis.

Personal life
Colman married Clara Porter of Greenville, Indiana in 1851 and had two children, daughter Laura Kate Colman (1860), who was the second wife of John Fremont Hill, Governor of Maine and Francis Porter Colman (1862) After Clara's death he married his second wife, the former Catherine Wright in 1866 and had one child, daughter Clara Wright Colman (1876) whom he named after his deceased wife.

He was a member of the Freemasons.

title: Norman Jay Colman


text:
Talk:List of homeopaths

Campbell
I've removed Campbell because it says at the top that it's a list of those gnenerally considered influential. He's notable, but is he influential?

Text removed is below. Adam Cuerden talk 23:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Campbell, Anthony edited the British Homeopathic Journal (now Homeopathy), the peer-review journal of the Faculty of Homeopathy.

 * Probably not so much. Agree.  Abridged talk 00:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

recent changes by anon
Regarding the recent changes by anon edit summary history here I think that they are ok. I don't know much about Hubbard and Stearns, to tell the truth, but the others are certainly influential. I will add a sentence on each of them as we have been doing in the article. Anon, if you come back, you should join the WikiProject Homeopathy and help out. Abridged talk 20:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed
I've removed a few - influential isn't quite the same as notable, and, while earlier notable homeopaths can be presumed to have had large influence, I'm not sure that most modern homeopaths by default can be presumed influential just because they may be notable or have written standard texts. I may have blundered on a few: Vithoulkas is clearly notable and famous, but did he actually develop techniques and methods that are different and new, or is he a strong populariser? Adam Cuerden talk 15:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Adam, I restored all of them except for Shah.  The names I restored are all modern highly influential homeopaths.  I'm not sure you know the field enough to pass judgement on this.  Abridged talk 22:24, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

 * If you must get rid of a few, morrison and murphy would probably be the ones to remove. But why not discuss on the talk page first?  Abridged talk 23:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Self-promo and advertising
How can this be reduced? This list needs some strict inclusion criteria. They must be notable enough for qualification for a Wikipedia article of their own, or have extremely good secondary and tertiary (not primary) sources that prove their notability. Without an article or such sources, they should be removed. The alternative is to AfD this list. -- Fyslee / talk 01:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As of Nov 2017, the every name on the list has a separate Wikipedia article. Did not check those to see if any are candidates for AfD. David notMD (talk) 21:47, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of homeopaths


text:
Vladan Grujić

Vladan Grujić (Владан Грујић; born 17 May 1981) is a Bosnian retired footballer who played as a defensive midfielder.

Club career
Born in Banja Luka, SR Bosnia and Herzegovina, back then within Yugoslavia, Vladan Grujić played for FK Borac Banja Luka and Serbian clubs FK Obilić and Red Star Belgrade. Since, Grujić has played for the German club 1. FC Köln before moving to Alania Vladikavkaz. In January 2006, he left Alania on a free transfer and joined Bulgarian side Litex Lovech on 28 January 2007. He signed a six-month contract with FK Sarajevo.

On 29 February 2008, he signed a three-year contract with Norwegian club Moss FK.

In November 2009, he was released by Moss FK and was available on free transfer.

In January 2010, he was on trial at the Polish second division club Gornik Zabrze.

In June 2011, he signed a two-year contract with Cypriot club Aris Limassol F.C.

On 21 July 2015, after playing two seasons with FK Borac Banja Luka in the Bosnian Premier League, Grujić returns to Serbia, this time by signing with top-flight club FK Voždovac.

International career
Grujić made his debut for Bosnia and Herzegovina in an October 2002 European Championship qualification match away against Norway and has earned a total of 24 caps, scoring no goals. His final international was an October 2006 European Championship qualification match against Greece.

title: Vladan Grujić