text:
Talk:Genital wart

Strains
According to the HPV variants involved are typically HPV 6 and HPV 11. -- The Anome 16:17, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup Nomination
I nominated this page for cleanup for the following reasons:
 * Duplicate/Incomplete Section
 * Bad References Section
 * Some bad verbage

pearly penile papules
if you guys look at:  [external spammy link removed]

youll see that the same pic on this page is: pearly penile papules

from that page: "HOWEVER--- If you are a guy and think you might have genital warts, do NOT confuse them with what are called pearly penile papules (see below) - penile papules are a rather normal thing for men in general (I've had a few myself ever since I was very young) - they are not harmful in any way and the only reason to care about them is if they are excessively large or long. The ones shown below in the photo are a little excessive, but not by very much."

so maybe somebody should change pic... and also add that pearly penile papules and warts can be confused somewhere

Picture
Yeah come on here. It is not necessary to show the worst cases in the last stages of the seventh circle of hell. How about showing those pictures into a section called "Heavily affected instances of genital warts".

As an analogy - Why would you keep a picture of a napalm victim, in an article about light burns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.62.0.20 (talk) 08:11, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

In this instance, a picture may actually prove helpful.

 * there are people complaining to "clean up" a desription of genital warts and their transmission, I'm not sure a picture is going to go down to well —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.109.158.19 (talk) 16:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

I think genital warts and pictures of genital warts should be on separate pages ...nuff said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.55.191 (talk • contribs)

 * Well, if you go to the Genital warts page, it seems reasonable that you might expect to see an image of them, eh? -- MarcoTolo 00:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be better pictures, as in more relevant pictures. These are very severe cases and are labeled properly but I think that a picture of a common case would be more prudent as this is not the Guinness World Book of Records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.244.141.219 (talk) 00:32, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

200 grit sandpaper
I removed a comment about using 200 grit sandpaper to deter chances of regrowth, nothing was cited for where it came from, and I have never heard of that before. Also it had a bad no http:// link in that portion of the article.

24.51.180.107 20:48, 19 February 2006 (UTC)fbp

It was from a male subject who stated on his online blog how he had the virus and used fingernail clippers and sandpaper to remove the wart(s). The male would have unprotected sex with females who were unaware of his STI.

Wadi!?
Is "wadi" a widely known term?
 * That should be changed to something mroe descriptive I think. :)

Sandpaper??
No, but according to  [external spammy link removed]  there are a number of treatments including: burning (electrocautery), freezing (cryosurgery), excision, poisons (podophyllin toxins), acid based prescription medications, or alternative natural treatments. Most of the treatments leave scarring, but the natural alternatives don't - if you can find one that works. Some have great customer referencs, so it's worth exploring them. But for women who have internal genital warts - surgery is the only option, and they need to get regular pap-smears to determine if they have them. Genital warts can cause cell changes in the cervix and this will lead to cervical cancer in most cases if the affected cells are not removed.

Genital warts may reappear after removal
Most of the people are not aware that genital warts can reapper after removal. Because the virus stays in the body, it surfaces again.

I know from experience....
I have HPV. It is NOT TRUE that after the initial wart(s) is removed the problem is over. Recurring outbreaks will happen and continue to happen if you do not seek treatment (not sandpaper- thats just dumb!)

I think that this site is very informative and correct in its information. The information I got from doctors was far more vague and left me feeling confused. Judging from my own experience with HPV, I would say that this article is valid and should be taken very seriously.

Apple Cider Vinegar
Having contracted HPV and too embaressed to go to the doc to get it removed, I started reading around on natual home remedies. Apple Cider Vinegar is commonly used to great effect and is a fraction of the cost of many of the other remedies out there.

It's quite long, but I found the following forum particularly helpful:  [external spammy link removed]
 * Vinegar is worthless. If you are too embarrassed to see your doctor (and you shouldn't be: he's seen much worse things than warts), call Planned Parenthood or an STD clinic and make an appointment.

 * I agree, don't be embarrassed, I contracted HPV about half a year ago and went into the clinic, the nurses removed them for me and after 3 more visits they haven't returned. Personally it would be hard to go into my family doctor but an STD clinic deals with this every day and are not going to be bothered by something they deal with daily.

According to  [external spammy link removed] , During the application of apple cider vinegar treatment on your genital warts, you might feel slight discomfort, which usually comes in the form of a tingling or burning sensation. This is to be expected, and is nothing to worry about  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Comfis (talk • contribs) 08:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I've found apple cider vinegar (Heinz, 5% acidity) to be the best method for someone who can't afford a doctor visit or doesn't have health insurance. It can remove the warts in 3-4 days, in my case, and won't adversely affect the uninfected skin whereas a lot of other over-the-counter treatments, such as salicylic acid (compound w), will burn all kinds of flesh. Application methods are the trickiest part. Use waterproof bandaids that sufficiently covers the affected area, use cotton from q-tips or another clean source, tissue paper is good for large areas. Reinforcing the bandaid with waterproof bandages helps the liquid stay in. I found this site invaluable for this method --  [external spammy link removed] . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwarts (talk • contribs) 05:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

genital warts and cervical cancer are caused by DIFFERENT strains of HPV!!
UNTRUE...

Quote from the Wikipedia entry on HPV (and numerous other sources corroborate):

"It is important to note that HPV types that tend to cause genital warts are not the same ones that cause cervical cancer." - this is untrue...

Actually, 4 types of HPV are the cause of 90% of gential warts cases and 70% of cases of cervical cancer. And the genital warts virus (HPV) causes cervical cancer - though 71% of parents were unaware of that fact as per that survey conducted by the Centre for Disease Control < personal note on this data: genital warts was reponsible for my near miss with cervical cancer at the age of 31 - I had progressed to CIN III (the stage before the cells become cancerous), I had no idea I had genital warts as they were internal, and my specialist gynae informed me that the cause of the cell mutation which was leading to certain cervical carcinoma was a strain of the genital warts virus >
 * I find no evidence to back up your claim. The CDC states, on at least three separate pages, that some types cause warts and other types cause cancers. The four-strain vaccine protects from two of each. In your case, you likely had more than one strain.

How accurate are those pictures?
Are those typical genital warts? or are they larger than normal warts? it appears in the picture that there are even warts growing on top of warts. What does a single genital wart look like? Could somebody put up a picture of a more mild case? 75.26.189.55 09:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't find a picture of a more mild case, but no, the pictures here represent only the most extreme cases. I would think these are people that let this go untreated for years. I don't see how one could go about day to day bodily functions like that. Normally they are small nodules, pink colored, and few in number. There should be a pic of a milder case so people can recognize them when they see them.

I also have other questions ... the article says they are highly contagious but don't comment on what might prevent or how effective condoms are with regard to them. Can they be spread simply by touching an infected area and touching someone else later? --206.40.229.27 23:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Milder examples of genital warts can be found here:  [external spammy link removed]

Angry Penguins 15:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes they look like tiny stalks or threads hanging out. Pictures should show different types. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.184.27.253 (talk) 10:20, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Images from Commons
Please help me to add the images from Wikimedia Commons to this article. -Pgan002 12:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Please don't. They're so awful. -- H3xx ( t/c/b ) 03:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What kind of response is this? Imagine Reason (talk) 20:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

block editing
the last comment on the misdiagnosis part may be a reason to disallow editing.

 * Generally, they can't be. See WP:RFPP. Imagine Reason (talk) 20:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I recently spent the evening with a gentleman that has just received his last treatment. We had sex and used a condom, the only problem is I was readingon your site that direct skin-on-skin contact can cause the virus to spread. We sleep naked inthe same bed all night so im guessing his penis may have touched me?

Also, he advised that oral sex was confirmed ok by his GP, could I have contracted the virus in my mouth. Im sorry I don't really know or understand alot about Genital Warts, and was just wanting so information and answers.

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.14.22 (talk • contribs)

Images
The pictures here show very very worst case scenarios. Most people who get these have much smaller, insignificant warts. Maybe some new pictures are needed?? The cases shown actually look nasty - as in, surgical intervention would be appropriate!! Dvmedis (talk) 13:37, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Sounds like a good idea, if we have a source for such images. Zodon (talk) 07:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

probability of warts from infected partner
"Approximately 70 percent of individuals who have sexual contact with an infected partner develop genital warts." (Scheinfeld and Lehman, An evidence-based review of medical and surgical treatments of genital warts)

This statement, which is reproduced in the wikipedia article seems dubious - like there is some qualifier missing. The same article says that HPV prevalence in US population is 10-20%. If this is a steady state would expect something like 7 to 14% prevalence of genital warts (70% of 10-20%).

The exact risk of infection from a single sexual encounter is unknown but according to the American Society for Colposcopy and Cervical Pathology it is in the range of 65%  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.234.17 (talk) 03:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, since, it is estimated that 75 to 80% of sexually active people in the US will be infected with HPV at some point in their lifetime. (See Human papillomavirus) Taken in combination with the above assertion, this suggests that about 50% of sexually active people (70% of 75-80%) in the US develop genital warts, which seems high. Zodon (talk) 07:15, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

- You're forgetting that only certain strains of HPV cause genital warts. It is by no means dubious to assert that 70% of those who have sexual contact with a person infected with one of these strains develop genital warts. --87.72.82.28 (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Also see this article, which says in 1971 Oriel found that 64% of those exposed developed genital warts. 216.67.11.101 (talk) 05:44, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

There is an  [external spammy link removed]  which shows multiple risk factors. Would this be a useful addition?

 * Note that this statistic contradicts the subsection of the wikipedia article on HPV:

Genital or anal warts (condylomata acuminata or venereal warts) are the most easily recognized sign of genital HPV infection. Although a wide variety of HPV types can cause genital warts, types 6 and 11 account for about 90% of all cases.

Most people who acquire genital wart-associated HPV types clear the infection rapidly without ever developing warts or any other symptoms. People may transmit the virus to others even if they don't display overt symptoms of infection.

HPV types that tend to cause genital warts are not the same ones that cause cervical cancer. However, since an individual can be infected with multiple types of HPV, the presence of warts does not rule out the possibility of high risk types of the virus also being present.

The types of HPV that cause genital warts are usually different from the types that cause warts on other parts of the body, such as the hands or inner thighs. 86.26.0.25 (talk) 16:51, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Conditions Confused With Genital Warts
On  [external spammy link removed]  They say not just Pearly Penile Papules are confussed as genital warts but also Skin Tags, Genital Herpes, Sebaceous Glands (Fordyce Spots and Angiokeratomas. I for one did confuse my Fordyce Spots as Genital Warts. I was glad to hear they were normal and i hadn't been in fected with HPV. The pictures were a great help too! I also know that the HPV virus does stay in your body for life so will always come back eventually. Apparently by using Immune Sytem Suppressants you can prevent them returning quicker.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.86.90.203 (talk) 21:04, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh? You know that it stays in the body forever, eh? See...every doctor I ask and every piece of modern medical literature I read tells me that in most cases the virus is cleared after about two years. So what the fuck are you talking about? You a doctor?

Every case is different. I am a male, and three times I had a single, small wart that I had removed in about a 2 year period. I know who gave me HPV, she told me after she was diagnosed. After the third time, it never came back. That was 17 years ago, never had any symptom again. On a lark, I participated in a study that was being done at a school I taught at, and I was told I did not react to the most common types of HPV. Presumably, my immune system had indeed cleared the virus.214.13.130.104 (talk) 13:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)Coxman

Pink Psoriasis spots also look very similar, unfortunately I know this firsthand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.74.2.218 (talk) 08:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Apparent contradiction in percentages?
I think I'm not completely stupid, but to me it looks like the following statements are in direct contradiction with one another:

 * 70% of those who have sexual contact with an infected partner develop genital warts, and while less than 1% of those infected become symptomatic, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.85.68.231 (talk) 19:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

 * They do seem to be contradictory, as noted in, the 70% figure seems questionable. Zodon (talk) 05:44, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Images
I had provided additional images of Genital Warts outbreaks from  [external spammy link removed]  but the links were removed by the editor. I thought that they would be helpful for anyone looking to see what an outbreak would look like. Much more comprehensive then any image references on this page now. I have provided images for other sections of the Wiki without problems, just seems to be on this page, and the herpes pages.

Maybe those looking at the discussions can be helped by them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidandkimbenton (talk • contribs) 14:20, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This site adds little beyond what Wikipedia has already. If you wish to improve wiki I can help find some review articles for you. Cheers. -- Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:56, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I beg to differ on the images, I don't see any of them here on this site. If you could point me to them, then I might agree. As mentioned by others on this page (near the top) they were requesting more images, so I provided a link to more as a service to the wiki. I believe that removing the link for others to view is not helping the wiki, but rather restricting the information available to others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidandkimbenton (talk • contribs) 03:38, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The request was for more images on Wikipedia. Not for a link. If people wish more images they can do a google image search. Please read WP:ELNO Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 16:44, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it would be nice to have a good external link, but that one isn't really very impressive. In fact it seems like Google's image collection is better for this purpose than the individual sites it links...  it would be very, very nice to find some proper scientific site, with no spamminess to it, with a deep image archive.  But I didn't.  (It would be interesting to see pictures of warts matched by some researcher with their identified subtypes, so you could see if the subtype was somewhat diagnosable by looking at the wart) Wnt (talk) 01:23, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Life consistancy of HPV GW
I just recently found out that i have hpv and i would like to know if it ever goes away and what can be done to keep these levels of hpv below breakout level and or fights off the hpv —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.121.187 (talk) 00:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

 * The material you suggest adding may be more apropos the article on human papillomavirus. There is also some coverage of this in Cervical cancer.  Such things have probably been better studied in relation to cervical cancer, since it is a more serious condition. Zodon (talk) 02:34, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Transmission Clarification
The article currently reads: "It is spread through direct skin-to-skin contact during oral, genital, or anal sex with an infected partner." However I was under the impression that if a hand touched an infected genital area and the touched an unaffected genital area it can spread. I'm not saying it can spread to the hands but that maybe the hands can spread it. In other words a hand job and then masturbation might spread it from person to person or vice versa. Can anyone clarify this?

Transmission Clarification
The article currently reads: "It is spread through direct skin-to-skin contact during oral, genital, or anal sex with an infected partner." However I was under the impression that if a hand touched an infected genital area and the touched an unaffected genital area it can spread. I'm not saying it can spread to the hands but that maybe the hands can spread it. In other words a hand job and then masturbation might spread it from person to person or vice versa. Can anyone clarify this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.60.84 (talk) 21:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 May 2013
According to UPtoDate, a highly respected and current online medical resource, TCA and BCA are the ONLY treatments approved to treat vaginal warts. The WIkipedia articles states the opposite. Please change "Trichloracetic acid is not recommended for use in the vagina, cervix, or urinary meatus" to Trichloracetic acid can be used on the vagina and cervix and during pregnancy." Thank you. J. Breton, MSN, CNM, RN

198.217.64.36 (talk) 22:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. UPtoDate may be highly respected and current, but you need to show exactly where you got your source; probably a specific URL. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 15:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

informal review
Dear UseTheCommandLine, I'm a relatively new wiki member and would like to make some comments about your article: Some more specific comments: the vaccine this will certainly not be true in the future. Overall All this said, I think an excellent article. Kind regards, LT90001 (talk) 08:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Overal I think an excellent and very well-written article. If only there were an army of UseThe CommandLine clones to edit WikiMed!
 * "studies, HPV is so common that nearly all sexually active people will get it at some point in their lives.[2]" I did a quick Google and results range from 75% on some websites to as low as 12% in self-reported lifetime incidence (http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/13/39). At any rate, that's not 'nearly all'. Secondly, this may have been true retrospectively, but with
 * The "Signs and symptoms" section is uncited.
 * Some double line breaks between sections (eg. Signs and Symptoms, Causes)
 * I feel 'Transmission' should make a direct statement that the cause is contact between an infected site (eg penile head) and another site, as you mention in the introduction. This is most commonly through sexual penetration but can occur through other means (eg. oral sex, auto-inoculation).
 * The "if an individual has unprotected sex with the infected partner, there is a 70%..." is uncited.
 * I find it is a little unclear as to the 70% and the stated 3/4 acquisition sexual partners is from continuous sexual contact or just a single sexual event.
 * Latency and recurrence: "although 90% are cleared by the body"... then you say "30% of people with warts will experience a recurrence.". How do I reconcile this?
 * I suggest move" As many as 80% of people with HPV will clear the infection within 18 months.[6]" from Management to the above (90% section).
 * Management section: "simple excision, such as with scissors" not too sure, but in my experience it's preferentially conducted with a scalpel.
 * Feeling a little left out here in this non-US country by the solely-US statistics in the Epidemiology section.
 * If possible maybe you could specifically mention some other strains (perhaps in the path section) that are linked with HPV, as there are others than just 6 and 11.
 * This article lacks a pathophysiology section outlining what biological processes cause a wart to actually form.

 * Thanks for your input. in some cases (such as the diagnosis section) I have simply cited the entire section rather than each sentence; in that section, there individual sentences are facts culled from sometimes different parts of the article. And further, I haven't gotten to the chemical treatments or the epi section yet, and i didn't know how much time it would take for someone to review it.
 * What I'm taking from your comments:
 * clearance vs recurrence needs clarification
 * perhaps more references for the "nearly all people" -- or maybe equivocate and say it is exceedingly common, or "estimates vary, but $source says..."
 * clarify the term "scissors excision" which is i guess a term of art used in a couple of the articles i saw
 * Pathophysiology section. I was sort of hoping to just leave this mostly up to the HPV article. It's not well studied, honestly, and I was a little wary of the potential redundancy. There is remarkably scant evidence on this topic; much more about the higher risk HPV variants, but of course those dont cause warts, so...
 * Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions! -- [ UseTheCommandLine  ~/ talk  ]# ▄ 09:14, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Try the tag, that way can refer to the main article. Re feedback, you're welcome! LT90001 (talk) 09:36, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Some quick comments: --WS (talk) 12:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * can you add a history section (, full text available on PMC might be helpful)?
 * and a separate prognosis section (currently spread throughout the article)
 * what is the chance of vertical transmission occuring?
 * what are the consequences of warts for pregnancy
 * the effect of hpv vaccination should probably be mentioned under epidemiology
 * association between genital warts and malignancy is largely missing
 * risk factors are missing (hiv, type of sex for location of warts)
 * whether or not to test and treat sexual partners should be discussed
 * mention which medical treatments are suitable for vaginal warts

A sentence does not seem to make sense. Could it please be improved.
"About 90% of those who contract HPV will not develop genital warts, but the remaining 10% who are infected can still transmit the virus."

Does not seem to make sense. Could it please be improved. 81.48.40.171 (talk) 17:05, 25 April 2016 (UTC)Martin A

SIgns and Symptoms (One of Key Sections) Only Has One Insufficient Source
In any medical article one of the first sections people will go to is signs and symptoms, one of the main reasons WebMD is used. In a topic that is as important as HPV signs and symptoms the fact that this article is using one source and that source is from an article in a medical journal from almost 6 years ago that most people can't access does not bode well. If Wikipedia acts like no improvements have been made in medical research on HPV since then and there isn't a higher standard in place for an article as visited as this what does it say for others?

I mean if this is really on the info on this then at least demand a more current source showing that to remove all doubt. If I visited a Dr and he told me he last brushed up on his material in 2012 I would walk out of his office.

I get talk shouldn't be this combative and more constructive but it's frustrating trying to help someone and leave you as a resource for them and not being able to. JaqenHghar80 (talk) 01:50, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

 * I don't see the age of this source as an issue. How much are you expecting the signs and symptoms of genital warts to have changed in the last 6 years? If the source were used for treatment then you may have a point, but that's not the case here. Coincidentally, most of the information in that section doesn't actually appear to be in the source, so more citations actually are needed. PriceDL (talk) 02:25, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

 * I have partially cited the section. PriceDL (talk) 02:33, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

 * It's not that the symptoms have changed it's that what we know about the symptoms has changed and which ones to apply to that disease. Medicine advances at a rapid pace and that includes all aspects of epidemiology and pathology.  I mean new studies are being published all the time about what signs and symptoms are attributed to what condition all the time and a lot of the time certain symptoms that we thought were attributed to one condition or were significant can turn out not to be or vice versa.  In fact there was a study done between genital warts and then onset of MS though it was too small and further research is needed.

My main point from my statement was not so much that the content was wrong so much that there are much better references that are more current and if you are going to have such an important article then why not cover your bases and make sure the research is up to date with current science? People who are sick are going to look at symptoms before anything else and if that information isn't up to date then it will effect treatment. There is probably a reason why Wikipedia articles used to be one of the top results when research medical issues and Google has penalized them recently. Knowing what I know from my SEO background having your sources be so old would be one of the reasons.

I don't have a problem if the article isn't being updated regularly, like if the last time this article had been touched was 2012 thus explaining it's source then I would understand because this is a big site with only so many editors but that is not the case. JaqenHghar80 (talk) 00:41, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2018
Delete duplicate "include" and replace comma with "and" before final item in sentence: "Treatment options include include creams such as podophyllin, imiquimod, trichloroacetic acid." in introduction. 82.1.122.99 (talk) 00:02, 5 January 2018 (UTC) 82.1.122.99 (talk) 00:02, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done –72 (talk)  01:01, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Red
Which article should sensitive DNA techniques go? Thanks. --Somatic dyspenea (talk) 11:50, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Have unlinked. We already have PCR listed. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 14:35, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2023
May I request that someone connect this article to the Italian Condiloma acuminato https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condiloma acuminato which you will notice uses the same photos and translates perfectly as genital wart Many thanks AntGreenit (talk) 22:42, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done:, this should be done on Wikidata, not Wikipedia. Lemonaka (talk) 06:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Genital wart


text:
Talk:Computer-supported collaboration

Untitled
Someone should dig through acm.org/cscw2004 and make the list of subfields, applications, research questions, a lot more robust. The call for participation frames the field as follows:

 * "...technology that affect groups, organizations communities and societies. Although work is an important area of focus for the conference - the conference has traditionally focused on such topics as the use of email, chat, voicemail and videoconferencing in supporting people's work activities and working relationships - technology is increasingly supporting a wide range of recreational and social activities. As consumer markets continue to expand, more and more people are able to connect online and we are moving toward a Computer Supported Cooperative World. Appropriate topic areas for CSCW 2004 therefore include all contexts in which technology is used to mediate human activities such as communication, coordination, cooperation, competition, entertainment, games, art, and music."

The current article barely links to computer-mediated communication. That needs to be better distinguished. They also mention "coordination and communication technologies" including:
 * "Innovations and experiences with Intranets, the Internet, WWW"
 * "Innovative installations: CSCW and the arts"
 * "Innovative technologies and architectures to support group activity, awareness and telepresence
 * "Social and organizational effects of introducing technologies"
 * "Theoretical aspects of coordination and communication"
 * "Methodologies and tools for design and analysis of collaborative practices"
 * "Ethnographic and case studies of work practice"
 * "Working with and through collections of heterogeneous technologies"
 * "Emerging issues for global systems"

Also there ought to be a link to every person who has every given a plenary address at any CSCW conference in this article. Although, silly buzzphrases like Open Source Society and Hacking the Law can be left out. Such plenary titles are just embarassing though they do illustrate a certain naive belief that by changing a bunch of lines of code, people can change law, politics, and culture.

Hope springs eternal.

Computability

 * It is reasonable to imagine that such a system may be capable of solving entire classes of problem that cannot be solved by classical symbol-processing systems that can be mapped to "Turing machines."

This bizarre claim is totally unsubstantiated and should be removed. Leibniz 20:22, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

CSCW renaming/vocabulary
In my eyes the existing version is not very well in line with CSCW research. In General, it would be nice to work with references to existing research literature when explaining CSCW (or any other scientific discipline's) vocabulary. Some other concerns:

- I wonder why CSC has been chosen as a main subject while all conferences/journals use CSCW as the discipline's reference term.

- I am pretty sure that the CMC people would object the notion of being a subdiscipline of CSC/CSCW. Occasionally there may be communication that does not imply collaboration...

Not just about "computing"
This whole section needs to be condensed into one paragraph, or deleted entirely. It is terrible and not super relevant to the field of cscw as a whole. I will be deleting it in a week or so if there are no objections here. Thanks! Leafman (talk) 17:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

A confusing array of buzzword articles needs structure
I'm seeing a lot of "collaboration" and "cooperation" buzzwords appearing as articles. Those articles often refer to each other, and need some organization.

See my list of examples at Talk:Collaborative working environment.

— Wdfarmer (talk) 00:24, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

This article should be removed
There is no research field named “Computer-supported collaboration“. It’s just a term sometimes used in a loose way a by few researchers (try a Google Scholar search).

Kjeld Schmidt — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjeld Schmidt (talk • contribs) 15:09, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

 * http://collaboration.wikicities.com/wiki/Category:Technology
 * Triggered by  on the global blacklist

If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.

From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II NotifyOnline 17:24, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Computer-supported collaboration. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051122004117/http://www.si.umich.edu/SPARC/index.htm to http://www.si.umich.edu/sparc/index.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051204034402/http://www.scienceofcollaboratories.org/ to http://www.scienceofcollaboratories.org/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051129084645/http://www.blogpulse.com/papers/2005/AdamicGlanceBlogWWW.pdf to http://www.blogpulse.com/papers/2005/AdamicGlanceBlogWWW.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:09, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Writing Style
Some of the writing style employed in this article seems a bit less encyclopedic than Wikipedia as a whole and more like an essay. I would edit rather than tagging if I had more time this afternoon as well as more knowledge about the subject matter as a whole, but I'm lacking in both respects. I have an issue with the following paragraph in particular, but more editing than just this paragraph are likely to be needed.
 * Who am I, online? Can an account be assumed to be the same as a person's real-life identity? Should I have rights to continue any relationship I start through a service, even if I'm not using it any longer? Who owns information about the user? What about others (not the user) who are affected by information revealed or learned by me?

Essaykid (talk) 19:43, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Computer-supported collaboration


text:
Portal:Trains/Anniversaries/July 21/More

19th century

 * 1836 – Canada's first railway, the Champlain and St. Lawrence Railroad, is opened.
 * 1877 – Baltimore and Ohio Railroad workers in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, stage a sympathy strike for the workers killed in Baltimore, Maryland, the day before. Rioting erupts throughout Pittsburgh as a result.

20th century

 * 1904 – The Trans-Siberian railway is completed.
 * 1971 – A fast train from Basel to Copenhagen derails due to a technical failure in the Class 103 engine; 23 die and 121 are injured.
 * 2000 – Manchester Metrolink, in Manchester, England, is extended to Eccles.

21st century

 * 2001 – Four passenger cars on the Mangalore Mail commuter train heading for Chennai derail while crossing the Kadalundi River near Kozhikode, India, killing 57 people. See: Kadalundi River rail disaster.
 * 2003 – A tornado knocks down most of the former Erie Railroad's Kinzua Bridge.
 * 2005 – A second series of explosions occur on the London Underground just two weeks after the previous attacks
 * 2005 – Union Pacific 844, the last steam locomotive built for Union Pacific Railroad, makes a series of break-in runs after the most extensive overhaul of an operating steam locomotive in the United States since the 1950s.
 * 2005 Pennsylvania Governor Edward G. Rendell presides over and cuts the ribbon for the opening ceremony on Buffalo and Pittsburgh Railroad's new branch to Homer City, Pennsylvania.


text:
Talk:Deathcore

More info on this page.
Add more info with reliable sources all over places. I needed to add the pioneers of deathcore, the popularity, the criticism and vocal techniques and stuff. Added more. The article lacked information before the edit. If you find unreliable sources although the sources are reliable, just remove them or the content unless it has a source for it that IS reliable. Do NOT revert it. Unless it's completely poorly sourced or whatever. We also HAD to put how the vocals can be called "pig squeals". And we needed a criticism section talking about how it got a MAJOR controversy as 'not real death metal''

Ihy34 (talk) 03:35, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Its actually a good starting point to help develop the article. I think it's impossible to neglect the use of pig squeals in the music. If anything it needs to be elaborated on to describe what it sounds like. The only change to the history section is that isn't Job for a Cowboy seen as the pioneers alongside BMTH and SS? The criticism section isn't too bad, it's well sourced and approaches it objectively, hopefully it can be developed to be more unbias. But it's important to remember we are here to write about the genres history and document journalised fact rather than prove it's not 'real' death metal. Overall good work! Jonjonjohny (talk) 11:20, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 February 2013
With Blood come cleansing 14:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

98.192.20.123 (talk) 05:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Done-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs

Unreliable Sources
I added the unreliable sources tag since someone has been adding a bunch of metalzine/blog sources like metalsucks, and others.

Skinless isn't deathcore — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.166.204 (talk) 18:09, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Your point being? I call the big one bitey 07:28, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 June 2013
There are some bands you got wrong in the list such as The Black Dahlia Murder

98.148.155.114 (talk) 11:42, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format.
 * Please give exact details of your proposed change(s), and reliable source(s) to support the change(s). Thank you. Begoon   talk  12:33, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 June 2013
Remove My Bitter End from the list and link too Belay My Last and We Are the End (are on the list but only as text, not as link to a wikiarticle. --80.161.143.239 (talk) 06:51, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Belay My Last and We Are the End aren't linked because there are no such articles on Wikipedia to link to. Of course, you're more than welcome to look into starting articles on them! As for My Bitter End, I've de-wikified it and fixed the citation, but I don't think there's any real need to remove it. Feel free to reopen the edit request if you have a reason why. 786b6364 (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If you click on the links can you see the articles got deleted because of no notability. If the band are deleted because of notability why so put it on the list? --80.161.143.239 (talk) 21:27, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: If the bands are not notable, there is no point adding them to the list. Feel free to re-open the request or contact me on my Talk page. Cheers! -- TOW  07:29, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on November 19 2013
Add Reflections and The Browning to the list and remove The Black Dahlia Murder and Motionless in White. The Black Dahlia Murder is NOT deathcore, they're melodic death metal. Motionless in White are metalcore, putting Motionless in White in a deathcore category is like calling August Burns Red deathcore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeaOfSmiles (talk • contribs) 05:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2014
Of mice and men is not on the death core. list please fix now

2600:1010:B12C:9215:3CFF:5688:1C71:A332 (talk) 23:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Kap 7 (talk) 02:48, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2014
Attila (deathcore band) added to deathcore list

The metal mounger (talk) 00:23, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Done.-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 01:28, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I Declare War
Someone add I Declare War. Thanks

ArcangelLaMarivilla (talk) 01:14, 15 August 2014 (UTC)ArcangelLaMarivilla

Mention more about the genre's development as of late
More examples are required. For example, there has recently been a big trend of bands combining deathcore and symphony, such as Assemble the Chariots, Make Them Suffer and Lorelei. There are also bands who combine deathcore with many genres at once, such as djent, classical music and progressive metal, such as Slice the Cake or Ovid's Withering. You can add those examples and provide some reference to some Sputnik review or something to back it up. Xfing (talk) 20:26, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2014
An Australian Band called Thy Art Is Murder are considered deathcore and isn't featured in this list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thy_Art_Is_Murder

Beansyy (talk) 04:54, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

 * TAIM isn't on here? Hold on, I'm adding them. I thought they were on here, that's strange. Second Skin (talk) 13:18, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Academic article on Deathcore
This article appeared on the internet very recently and is a academic one (Titled: ‘MySpace bands’ and ‘tagging wars’ Conflicts of genre, work ethic and media platforms in an extreme music scene) and was written by "Tamás Tófalvy, Ph.D., an assistant professor at Budapest University of Technology and Economics" and was published on First Monday. I think the question is (before I've read it) does it have a place on wikipedia and would it be useful? Jonjonjohny (talk) 18:25, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * It's published through a peer-reviewed journal, so that alone is enough for it to be used as a reliable source. The author is also vice-chair of the Hungarian International Association for the Study of Popular Music, so that shores up things even further. Go ahead and use this, it's a fantastic find.-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 18:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Hardcore?
You could argue that it's already noted with the "Metalcore" in stylistic origins, but I feel deathcore (especially in the early 00's) was substantially hardcore-influenced to perhaps have it there. Although one could argue it's already sorta there because metalcore itself takes influences from hardcore. So it's more of an option. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.80.1.126 (talk) 13:10, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, and there was a previous version, supported by myself, that mentioned hardcore as well as metalcore.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   |  See what I have done  ) 15:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If there are sources in the text that support this then it should be restored.-- MA SHAUN IX 00:32, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Can't really agree with this; the most professional sources such as Revolver on their Dawn of Deathcore article specify metalcore with the breakdowns in deathcore only being an element of the hardcore element to metalcore. Also I hate to use original research, but if you listen to deathcore it doesn't at all sound like it has anything that remotely sounds similar to Trapped Under Ice, Backtrack, Madball or Sheer Terror as a part of the sound. Just saying... Second Skin (talk) 05:10, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * All that doesn't automatically discount what is written in reliable sources. And AllMusic is about as professional as you can get.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   |  See what I have done  ) 01:47, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, if you prefer Revolver as a sources, you have this article that states that "deathcore is, by its simplest definition, the fusing of death metal and hardcore influences."

Image change suggestion
Someone changed the image of Guy to the Red Chord to this one of Suicide Silence. I'm kind of in favor of the Suicide Silence once versus the TRC one, anyone else agree?

Not only is it more horizontal (takes up less downspace on the page) but SS did a lot more for deathcore than TRC did. Second Skin (talk) 06:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 one external links on Deathcore. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.reviewtheworld.com/content/staff/deathcore.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130524023223/http://americanaftermath.net/2010/09/26/leave-the-pig-squeals-on-the-farm/ to http://americanaftermath.net/2010/09/26/leave-the-pig-squeals-on-the-farm/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131023060904/http://www.decibelmagazine.com/magazine/baroness-61-nov-2009/despised-icon/ to http://www.decibelmagazine.com/magazine/baroness-61-nov-2009/despised-icon/
 * Added tag to http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=97517/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080803031857/http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com:80/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=100980 to http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=100980
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050330031148/http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Charts/ALBUMS.html to http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Charts/ALBUMS.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130921054215/http://drownedinsound.com/directory/artists/Bring_Me_The_Horizon to http://drownedinsound.com/directory/artists/Bring_Me_The_Horizon
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130521231441/http://www.decoymusic.com/blog_posts/201 to http://www.decoymusic.com/blog_posts/201

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:49, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

subgenres
There are several underground movements in deathcore that I think deserve to be recognized on the page. Doomcore is the fusion of doom metal and sludge metal with deathcore, and bands use slowed tempos, downtuning, and lower growls to achieve a really heavy sound. Bands include Black Tongue, Immoralist, and Graves. Aliencore is the fusion of deathcore and tech-death, using a lot of technicality, themes of aliens, and sometimes atmospheres. Bands include Rings of Saturn, Aversions Crown, The Zenith Passageway, and Enterprise Earth. Basically Deathcore that has been Downtuned, with slower tempos, that isn't influenced by doom and sludge metal. Bands include Drown in Sulphur, Traitors, and The Last Ten Seconds of Life Deathcore that has incorporated black metal elements, like atmosphere, lyrical content, and vocals. Bands include Carnifex, Lorna Shore, and She Must Burn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.167.232.114 (talk) 17:22, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Doomcore
 * Aliencore
 * Downtempo Deathcore
 * Blackened Deathcore

Criticism Section
I don't understand why this article is allowed to have an entire subsection entitled "Criticism". I tried to make a similar edit to a different page and it was said that such a section violates the neutrality policy. So, it should have to be one or the other. It can't be that some articles are allowed to have such a section and others aren't. Who gets to determine that? Don't get me wrong I am no fan of deathcore and I think it SHOULD be criticized, but if you allow such content you open the door to allow it done on other pages. If it can be done here, I don't see why I can't do it on a different page, so long as I use reputable sources and my information is fully truthful and accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KevinGrem (talk • contribs) 12:09, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Deathcore. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131019085028/http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/2929615.jpg to http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/2929615.jpg
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.reviewtheworld.com/content/staff/deathcore.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=100980
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.themusicnetwork.com/music-news/industry/2012/10/31/thy-art-is-murder-break-aria-record/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:45, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Deathcore. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131104015751/http://www.blistering.com/fastpage/fpengine.php/templateid/13151/menuid/2/tempidx/4/link/1 to http://www.blistering.com/fastpage/fpengine.php/templateid/13151/menuid/2/tempidx/4/link/1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:53, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Deathcore. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130419185908/http://www.daviddawson.com.au/music/deathcore-and-how-hard-it-is-to-find-good-bands/ to http://www.daviddawson.com.au/music/deathcore-and-how-hard-it-is-to-find-good-bands/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:28, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Locations
The opening paragraph states that deathcore originated in Arizona and Southern California's Inland Empire (especially Coachella Valley) and it's with the last part I take exception. There are no citations. I can cite myself to refute that though as I was booking the vast majority of metalcore shows in the Coachella Valley from 2002-2008 and while deathcore did become popular here, there are zero notable deathcore bands, labels or festivals in the Coachella Valley. Darkness Awaits and It Involves Murder were the two biggest bands in the CV. Suicide Silence and Job for a Cowboy did play here, but not often. The CV is a region that is between Phoenix, AZ and the Inland Empire (mostly Corona where the Showcase Theater was located) where most bands did originate. If we are going to leave the CV part in there, there should be more than one notable band mentioned the article and at this point there are zero. I'm removing that only because there are no citations. AndrewK760 (talk) 15:51, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Deathcore


text:
The Cookbook

The Cookbook is the sixth and most recent studio album by American rapper Missy Elliott, released on July 4, 2005, by The Goldmind Inc. and Atlantic Records in Germany and the United Kingdom, and on July 5 in the United States and Japan. To date, it is her final long play studio effort.

Three singles were released from the album; the first, "Lose Control", was released on May 27, 2005, and peaked at number three on the Billboard Hot 100 chart and charted well internationally. The second single, "Teary Eyed", was released on August 8, 2005, and failed to chart on any Billboard chart and charted low in other countries. The third single, "We Run This", was released on February 21, 2006, and peaked at number forty-eight on the Billboard Hot 100 and charted moderately well internationally.

The album received generally favorable reviews from critics. The album debuted at number two on the US Billboard 200 chart. The album was certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). It received a Grammy nomination for Best Rap Album, ultimately losing to Kanye West's Late Registration. The music video for "Lose Control", directed by Dave Meyers won the Grammy for Best Short Form Music Video.

Background
The title The Cookbook derived of Elliott feeling "no two records are going to sound alike; each record has its own spices and herbs. Each record is cooking up a hot recipe for a hot album." The black and white cover features Elliott posing with a vintage microphone in a 1920s juke joint. She explained the cover, saying, "I wanted people to see I was taking music back to the roots—not just hip hop, but our ancestors. Whether they was on railroad tracks or cooking in somebody's kitchen, they was always singing."

In an interview with Billboard magazine, Elliott said, "I really do think this is my best album. I was in a really great space with this album. I wasn't in a great space with some of the other albums I've done." She went on to say, "I played Lil' Kim the album the other day, and she told me it was incredible and that there was not one song on it that she didn't like."

Recording
In January 2005, it was revealed Elliott had been working on a new album. Two months later, Ciara confirmed she would appear on the album, singing and rapping on the potential first untitled single at the time. Elliott worked on The Cookbook with such producers as the Neptunes, Rich Harrison and Scott Storch. The album included only two songs produced by Timbaland, who produced most or all songs on Elliott's previous albums. She explained, "Me and Tim, this like our sixth album, so if we go any further left, we gonna be on Mars somewhere. We've done everything it is to do. I think both of us came to a spot where we didn't know where to go with each other." She said Timbaland was very involved with the album, supporting or opposing certain producers. Elliott went on to say, "I was eight songs deep and I let Tim listen and he was like, 'Nah, you're going in the wrong direction. You trippin'.' I had to go back in the studio and come up with new records. [When he heard those], he was like, 'This is the Missy people are listening to.'"

Singles
The first, "Lose Control", was released on May 27, 2005, and peaked at number three on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, number six on the Billboard Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs and number two on the Billboard Pop 100. The single also peaked at number two on the New Zealand RIANZ Singles Chart and in the top ten in four other countries. A Dave Meyers-directed promotional video accompanied the song; it was the most played video on BET and MTV2 and second most played video in the United States. It went on to win a Grammy Award for Best Short Form Music Video, while the song itself received a nomination for Best Rap Song.

The second single, "Teary Eyed", was released on August 8, 2005; it failed to chart except in Australia and Switzerland. The music video for the song was directed by Antti J. Jokinen and was filmed "like a movie". It features Elliott responding to a relationship that had gone wrong.

The third single, "We Run This", was released on February 21, 2006, and peaked at number 48 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number 39 on the Billboard Pop 100 and peaked in the top forty in Australia, Ireland and the United Kingdom. An edited version of the song was used as the theme song for the gymnastics-themed film Stick It, as well as for the music video, which was directed by Dave Meyers. The video features a cameo by gold-medalist Dominique Dawes as Elliott's gymnastics coach, with scenes from the film being used throughout the video. The song received a Grammy nomination for Best Rap Solo Performance.

Critical reception
The Cookbook received positive reviews from most music critics. At Metacritic, which assigns a normalized rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream critics, the album received an average score of 74, based on 28 reviews, which indicates "generally favorable reviews". Rich Juzwiak of Stylus Magazine gave the album an A rating, stating "Her adventurous and, yes, massive, persona is allowed to wander wherever it wants on The Cookbook, be it avant or common." Alexis Petridis of The Guardian wrote, "The Cookbook is a convincing return to form.... Sounding as unique and startling and formidable as ever, Missy Elliott is clearly not a woman to be messed with." John Bush of AllMusic noted that "Elliott forces a few rhymes, plays to type with her themes, and uses those outside producers to follow trends in hip-hop.... What's different here is how relaxed Elliott is, how willing she seems to simply go with what comes naturally and sounds best." Q stated "If not Elliott's most inventive album, The Cookbook is certainly her most colourful and entertaining".

However, Ben Sisario of Blender wrote, "For every killer raise-your-hands hook there is a snoozer of an SWV-esque torch ballad, and she can't seem to tell the difference." He went on to say, "Almost half the songs are treacly Kleenex soul ballads; even the titles...bring a cringe." Los Angeles Times writer Natalie Nichols found that "her souffle of hip-hop, soul, R&B, funk and dance music falls a bit flat". Rolling Stone's Brian Hiatt called The Cookbook Elliott's "least cohesive, most conventional album yet." Entertainment Weekly's Margeaux Watson viewed that "she's clearly lost without Timbaland", calling him "the main ingredient of her original flavor". Steve Horowitz of PopMatters noted that it "does have a few duds" and found some of the "offensive lyrics" as flaws, but wrote that "While not every cut is a winner, Elliott does a fairly consistent job of gaining the listener's attention through her outrageous lyrics and performance style".

Pitchfork's Ryan Dombal found the album "Even more bipolar than usual", with Elliott "jolting from uber-hypeness to soul-crushing balladry. Fortunately, supported by an array of producers both grizzly and green, her invaluable unpredictability is alternately harnessed and given new life on this album, despite its uneven and transitional nature." Joan Morgan of The Village Voice complimented Elliott's "ability to capture the ain't-afraid-to-sweat flava" and stated "Elliott mines the best of hip-hop's old-school elements for throwback tracks that are engagingly sparse and elemental". In his consumer guide for The Village Voice, critic Robert Christgau gave The Cookbook an A− rating, indicating "the kind of garden-variety good record that is the great luxury of musical micromarketing and overproduction". Christgau called it a "benchmark album" and commented that "Elliott showcases the musical health of African American pop [...] Elliott's disinclination to give it up to gangsta's thrill cult or black pop's soft-focus porn, plus her proven ability to work a good beat when she gets one, leads her naturally to a collection that ebbs and flows, peaks and dips, and pokes fun at any canon of taste you got".

The album was nominated at the 2006 Grammy Awards for Best Rap Album, but lost to Kanye West's Late Registration.

Commercial performance
The Cookbook debuted at number two on the US Billboard 200, selling 176,000 copies in the first week of release. In its second week, the album dropped to number seven on the chart, selling an additional 65,000 copies. On September 15, 2005, the album was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) for sales of over 500,000 copies in the United States. On January 22, 2022, the album was certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) for sales of over 1,000,000 copies in the United States. As of December 2023, the album has sold 1,050,000 copies in the US. The Cookbook peaked in the top thirty in Australia, Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Switzerland.

Track listing
Sample credits
 * "Partytime" contains a sample from "Whammer Jammer" by the J. Geils Band
 * "Irresistible Delicious" contains a sample from "Lick the Balls" by Slick Rick
 * "Lose Control" contains a sample from "Clear" by Cybotron and "Body Work" by Hot Streak
 * "My Struggles" contains a sample from "What's the 411?" by Mary J. Blige
 * "We Run This" contains a sample from "Apache" by the Sugarhill Gang

Personnel

 * June Ambrose – stylist
 * Marcella Araica – assistant engineer
 * Chris Brown – assistant engineer
 * Jay Brown – A&R
 * Greg Gigendad Burke – art direction, design
 * Warryn Campbell – producer
 * Vadim Chislov – assistant engineer
 * Andrew Coleman – engineer
 * Wyatt Coleman – engineer
 * Shondrae "Mister Bangladesh" Crawford – producer
 * Jimmy Douglass – mixing
 * Michael Eleopoulos – engineer
 * Missy Elliott – producer, executive producer
 * Paul J. Falcone – engineer, mixing
 * Gloria Elias Foeillet – make-up
 * Chris Gehringer – mastering
 * Serban Ghenea – mixing
 * Hart Gunther – assistant
 * Rich Harrison – producer
 * Iz – instrumentation
 * Eric Jensen – assistant engineer
 * Darrale Jones – A&R
 * Charlene "Tweet" Keys – background vocals
 * Keith Lewis – producer
 * Patrick Magee – assistant engineer
 * Kimberly Mason – coordination
 * The Neptunes – producer
 * Saint Nick – producer
 * Larry Sims – coordination
 * Southwest DeKalb – drums
 * Scott Storch – producer
 * Conrad "Con da Don" Golding – engineer
 * Aaron "Franchise" Fishbein – guitar
 * Timbaland – producer
 * Saint Warwick – photography
 * Rhemario Webber – producer
 * Rayshawn Woolard – assistant engineer

title: The Cookbook


text: User talk:70.146.70.221

title: User talk:70.146.70.221


text:
The Wonder Book of Bible Stories

The Wonder Book of Bible Stories is a 1904 collection by Logan Marshall published in the United States. The book includes biblical stories from both the Old and New Testaments retold for children and illustrated with rich woodcuts and color plates. Reprinted several times in the 1920s, it went out of print in 1925. It was made available online by Project Gutenberg in 2005 and there have subsequently been several print editions in Chinese and in English, published in Taipei, as well as other ebook versions.

Other collections of Bible stories with this title have been made by Mary Juergens (1951), David Kyles (1953) and Jesse Lyman Hurlbut (1958).

title: The Wonder Book of Bible Stories


text:
1933 in Norwegian football

Results from Norwegian football in 1933.

Class A of local association leagues
Class A of local association leagues (kretsserier) is the predecessor of a national league competition.

 * 1In the following season, Glommendalen local association changed its name to Glåmdal.
 * 2In the following season, Nordmøre og Romsdal local association was split into Nordmøre and Romsdal.
 * 3In the following season, Troms local association was split into Troms Innland and Troms.
 * 4In the following season, Finnmark local association was split into Vest-Finnmark, Midt-Finnmark and Aust-Finnmark.

National team
Sources:

title: 1933 in Norwegian football


text: User talk:142.227.233.1

title: User talk:142.227.233.1


text:
Talk:Helen Keller International

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Helen Keller International. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110526053358/http://www.hki.org/research/HKI%20Bulletin%20Bangladesh%20Sept%2010%20Food%20Security%20and%20Nutrition%20Surveillance.pdf to http://www.hki.org/research/HKI%20Bulletin%20Bangladesh%20Sept%2010%20Food%20Security%20and%20Nutrition%20Surveillance.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.greenstone.org/greenstone3/nzdl?a=d&d=HASH22b8e1393d7f68a9224b1d.2.pp&c=hdl&sib=1&dt=&ec=&et=&p.a=b&p.s=ClassifierBrowse&p.sa=
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170118132450/http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/pdabx780.pdf to http://www.pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PDABX780.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130228192751/http://www.ifpri.org/sites/default/files/publications/oc64ch21.pdf to http://www.ifpri.org/sites/default/files/publications/oc64ch21.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120215202350/http://www.hki.org/working-worldwide/asia-pacific/bangladesh/ to http://www.hki.org/working-worldwide/asia-pacific/bangladesh/
 * Added tag to http://docserver.ingentaconnect.com/deliver/connect/nsinf/03795721/v26n1/s2.pdf?expires=1329377878&id=67237629&titleid=41000042&accname=Guest+User&checksum=EEFB1BA8E8BE2A990DE161EAB6339BC6
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120521011703/http://iphn.gov.bd/new/home/activities/vitamin-a to http://iphn.gov.bd/new/home/activities/vitamin-a

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:17, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Helen Keller International


text:
Talk:Jim Steinman

Expand article?
I think this article needs to be expanded, and improved to a professional status. I'd like to see it on the main page someday. I was thinking that it should mention more about his World Guiness Record with Meat Loaf on Bat Out of Hell, and a couple of pictures on Jim would be cool to. I'm sure his official site would allow us to use some if {fairused}, or wouldn't it? Anyway, give me suggestions. Call me biased, but I think that more people should be aware of this awesome composer/lyricist. EliasAlucard|Talk 18:24, 13 Jun, 2005 (UTC)

Article name. Page move?
To avoid the millions of redirects, can the title of this article not be Jim Steinman? The Richard Wagner is not called 'Wilhelm Richard Wagner'. A page move would make sense as this is the name that he is known by (the opening paragraph would still, of course, include his full name). The JPS 16:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone else think Steinman wrote his own entry (who else would have access to that publicity still?). Nonetheless, he's clearly a genius. I just doubt the utility of being a genius.

Who cares if Mr.Steinman wrote his own page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrsstump23 (talk • contribs) 8:18, 10 April 2007

Re: Publicity Still
I believe that image came from Jim's "BAD FOR GOOD" album art.
 * That is where I know it from - Antmusic 21:47, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe JD can authorize some more photos? 204.120.207.2 21:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Article Expansion
I like your idea of expanding the article on Jim Steinman. Personally, I am a big fan of Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf (Meat Loaf is how I heard of Jim Steinman). I just want to add my support for expanding the article by saying I would love to have much more information on Jim Steinman — and his outstanding records as well!! I agree, Steinman truly is a musical genious and (call me stupid if you want) the whole world should be familiar with him and his amazing works!

~ djh2400 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djh2400 (talk • contribs) 00:48, 31 May 2006

I agree, good job

~ Commander vlad
 * As long as we remember to keep a neutral point of view. We shouldn't really duplicate much of what's in the other articles: which means keeping it relevant to Steinman, rather than his work (if his work is discussed in a separate artilce). There has been some really bad additions to this article recently. The priority at the moment is to add references (I've started doing that). It's not about expanding the article at the moment, it's about making it better. The JPS talk to me  21:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think this article still reads like a fan site, and it's really one of the poorest articles on Wikipedia. I keep trying to rectify the problems, but anons come along and add fancruft stuff... It's quite limited in view: what about Def Leppeard, etc.? The JPS talk to me  11:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

 * There's Floodland by The Sisters of Mercy, too. -- Beardo 14:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the album covers should go. The JPS talk to me  17:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Recent Changes
OK, so I just did a fairly drastic overhaul of the article, and if anybody has comments about those changes I'd be interested to read them.

My objectives for the recent changes were the following: - I wanted to make the article have as much emphasis on Steinman's career as a producer as on his career as a writer. I think a lot of the fans who put this together focus pretty much exclusively on his writing, but he's arguably been more productive and in-demand as a producer than as a writer.

- I wanted to make the article such that all his productions are listed, and the ones that were most successful got a little more space but not a whole lot more. I didn't want this article to play favorites, where some projects get an essay and others no mention at all. I wanted this article to be useful to the collector, it should provide the collector with the information he needs to actually find Steinman's work, because it has been scattered about on so many different projects here and there.

- I wanted to take out promotional-sounding stuff. I wanted to take out some of the dubious mythology and apocryphal legends that fans tell each other about this guy. I wanted it to be fact-first. Also assumptions about the motives behind various decisions, that is something I wanted to take out.

- I'm actually not sure if the aborted past projects section belongs there, but somebody on this page mentioned Def Leppard, and having a section like that is the only way to work Def Leppard in there. There are probably a lot of aborted projects we don't know about, or that fans are mistaken about, so that section could easily get out of hand if it were to grow

- I tried to think of things about the man and not the work, but the problem is that very little is known about him outside of his work. The ideas out there among fans about him are often fairly wild stories that could easily be false. As far as I can tell, he's a very private man.

- I wanted a clear separation between Tanz der Vampire and Dance of the Vampires, because people who saw both, and Steinman himself, almost invariably think of those as two separate projects

- I strongly considered deleting all content about Meat Loaf's Bat 3 album. If this article were to include every project where somebody else made a cover of some sort of Steinman's work, I'd have to add literally hundreds of projects that aren't in here right now. I only left it in because of the legal battle, which did receive coverage in the press.

more
I'm still thinking about how this article could be improved. Aside, obviously, from the complete lack of citations. That's the big thing on wikipedia that this article doesn't have. I'm suspecting it's too long. If it needs to get shorter, I'm thinking it would be better to say less about each project than to reduce the number of projects mentioned. Excluding projects presents an inherent POV issue, because people will vary as to which projects they think are the most important. I have my own strong opinions as to which are the most important, but I KNOW those opinions are very different from those of some others who've listened to Steinman's work just as much. I think the only solution is to list every Steinman production, and state no opinions as to which is most notable or best. I put my opinion as to which Steinman works are "best known" in the second paragraph of the article, and I intentionally kept that separate from the listings of the projects, because the listings shouldn't take any POV as to which are important and which aren't. Beyond, obviously, reporting facts about how successful they were.

inclusion of projects
I wanted to include any recording that is: - the first project to include a particular melody or lyric of Steinman's - produced by Steinman

I did not want to mention: - covers that Steinman didn't produce of already released Steinman songs - television covers, such as when his songs get performed on American Idol - advertisements using a recording of Steinman's music that has already been released - movies that have, on the soundtrack, a recording that has already been released of a Steinman song

If I were to include anything in the latter group, I think this article would explode to a ridiculous length, and mention tons of stuff that nobody cares about. It would become harder to find the information that somebody interested in learning about Steinman's work would want.

comment
As I see it, some of the problems this page used to have stemmed from repeating things that definitely can be cited, but cannot be proven. The thing about Steinman is, there are lots of magazine articles and interviews about him that repeat all kinds of wild anecdotes, exaggerations, and bizarre speculations. A lot of those just got repeated onto this page, as if the journalist of a rock&roll magazine is "official", and as if every amusing anecdote from an interview with Steinman is true just because he said it. In a way, this page was probably more "citable" before I got my hands on it, in the sense that you could have put at the bottom a good long list of interviews and articles that say the same ridiculous things this article used to say. For example this article used to say that Steinman's college student theater project was hailed by critics as a masterpiece. There seriously is an article you could cite that says this, written by somebody who may not have even been there for the show. (In fact, some of the articles about what the 1969 Dream Engine show was like seriously were written by people who, I have since learned, never attended the show). I deleted that because I was thinking, why would there be "critics" for a student production? The student productions I've been to rarely had critics or reviews.

With Steinman, any efforts to do a real Steinman biography are plagued by all the myths and legends about Jim Steinman that are codified in print, including interviews with him. It is my personal belief that Jim Steinman sometimes has been guilty of exaggeration and telling anecdotes that are amusing but not exactly accurate.

This current article, as it stands right now, is mostly the result of a combination of my skepticism, and reading about Steinman through materials that have circulated among fans. I've tried to leave in things that: - could conceivably be proven true if they absolutely had to be - I have heard with my own ears or seen with my own eyes - can be read on an official credits list for some musical work - don't seem like they could have been said for the purpose of "entertainment" or "amusement" or "astonishment" or "promotion" - are not contradicted by other information

So, pretty much, I've sacrificed "citability" in favor of some of the other qualities desired on wikipedia.

There are some sections on here that used to read like a fan site written by a 13 year old. I honestly don't believe the people who inserted that content were trying to make it that way. I think they were just trying to incorporate what is said in the only written materials available about Steinman.

Another comment I want to make. On the paragraph about his legal battle with Meat Loaf, the many short articles published by rock&roll journalists said a lot of contradictory things. I was interested in the case back then, and I obtained the court documents for the case (which are not hard to get) and read them (some of them are not very long) and what I've written there is my own very brief summary, in my own words, of what they say. Some of the rock&roll journalists who wrote about the case obviously did not read those documents, yet those journalists are, in a way, citable and I am not. So you see, building a wikipedia article out of "citable" statements can have both advantages and disadvantages.

Anyhow that is kind of a long comment but it should give some insight as to why I felt the need to, by myself, so completely overhaul an article that already had input from so many people.
 * Thanks for your work. We've spoken on your talk page, but best continue it here for transparency. I agree with much of what you're said. Some of the writing was quite poor, but I put that down to non-native speakers (there was often repetition of "Jim Steinman", rather than Steinman in subsequent references). There are two issues:
 * Citing reliable sources is essential. We can get around the hyperbole by using phrases such as "In an 19xx interview, he said that..." This statement would be accurate without us claiming whatever claim to be so. Meat Loaf usually favours an entertaining interview in the expense of an accurate one.) If Steinman has claimed something in a reliable source, then that's fine. It is not up to us to decide what to ignore/what is exaggeration. In short, it is absolutely essential, per WP:BLP, that we have citations. Of course, reliable sources can be wrong, but we need other reliable sources to prove that! As I say, careful phrasing will help. Meat Loaf's autobiography can be referenced: not a book I suspect to be completely accurate, but as mere Wikipedia editors it is simply not our role to action that assumption. "Meat Loaf claims that...", however, would be completely accurate.
 * The structure seems very fragmented, and is as I've seen some fansites. I think we should adopt a more chronological stance. It's supposed to be a biography of him, not his work (although his work will necessarily play a major component). Paul McCartney is a good example here. The JPS talk to me  10:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I hear ya. Careful phrasing can help navigate these dilemmas. Still learning wikipedia, so of course I appreciate your input.

I'm going to go to sleep now, but in the next few days I want to decide which types of awards are notable enough to mention in this page. I did put in a note about the "Falling Into You" album winning two Grammy awards, because winning a Grammy is always a big enough deal to list. But there are lots of other, less major awards that Steinman productions have won. I'm not sure if a Juno Award (like a Canadian grammy) is major enough to list in here. But is it nationally biased to list the Grammy's but not the Juno's? There are numerous other types of awards where I'm not sure if they're major enough or not. I decided not to list any award nominations, because some people rack up a lot of those. Nomination = did not win. Only winning the award do I want to list.

Anyhow thanks.

I will also contemplate deleting the album covers. Album covers are something that I think should be there for every album or for none of them. I don't want this page to play favorites. And I don't feel like finding 40 album cover photos. Then again, would a page with almost no pictures be less appealing? I will think about this some more.
 * Agree. In the past the article had the entire right hand side full of alum covers, and it looked tacky. It could be argued that the first two Bats are notable, but you're right about playing favourites. As for awards, yeah, keep the most notable on this page, and the rest can go in the specific article for whatever album. The JPS talk to me  11:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, we shouldn't actually have that image of him at the top because it's a non-free image of someone who is still alive (meaning a free alternative can be created). I wonder if one of the fans from the OTT/Dream Engine shows could be persuaded to release one of their photos under a free license? The JPS talk to me  11:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I've been in contact with one such fan in the past and I could ask him about using one of his photos. I think it's best to have a recent photo. I'll find a good photo from his website and ask him about it.

Photo of Steinman
I just want to make a note here that I've sent the free license email thing to the permissions-en AT wikimedia DOT org email address. It's for this picture:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/cdb_07/wikistein.jpg

It was taken in June of 2005 in Uncasville, CT at the Mohegan Sun casino. Steinman was there for a show of his work called Over The Top: The Songs of Jim Steinman, and a concert spectator took the photo when Steinman was giving autographs.

I'll have to figure out how to get it onto the Steinman page.
 * Sorted! Would the photographer like to be named? The JPS talk to me  09:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I just asked him that and he says he would. His name is David Akerman.

New photo of Steinman
I decided that the previous photo (described in the section directly above this one) was a bit scary-looking. The photographer, Dave Akerman, agreed with me. I changed it to the with permission from its creator. See the photo page for more details. Bellminer (talk) 04:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)Bellminer

next step
OK, the article's developed a lot. This is what I reckon we need:
 * a reliable source for facts relating to his person.
 * once everything has a source, we can send the article to peer review to get outsider's opinions.
 * One we've addressed any concerns after that we can elect it for good article status, which would identify it as one of the higher quality articles (approx. 1 in 711 articles are 'good'). The JPS talk to me  09:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 17:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I assessed the article as "start". Even though the article has a lot of good content in it, it is badly under-referenced and needs clean-up.  Once the referencing is done, it should be easy to bring it up to B-class.  -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:52, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

What is the Meaning of This Oft-used Steinman Lyric?
Sorry to post like this is a fansite, but I can't find an answer anywhere on the net, and I know that people reading this discussion page will have something to say about it.

Here is my question: What is "the end of the line" lyric about?

Why the does almost every song Jim Steinman ever wrote have the phrase "end of the line" in it? It was used on Meat Loaf Bat Out of Hell in the 70s, re-used in almost every song on Bat Out of Hell II in the 90s, used in songs for Bonnie Tyler, etc..

What is this? Does this reference something? Is "the end of the line" something good? Or something bad?

This might end up being useful for the article, as it is somehow connected to Steinman, just how an article about one of the greatest athletes of all time, Yogi Berra, would be woefully incomplete without a mention of Yogiisms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.100.147 (talk) 21:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC) best guess, its something lifted from train-lingo. Something about reaching the last stop or something. Could be seen as a way of saying that one have run out of options, patience or similar, depending on context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.49.132.202 (talk) 18:17, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Discography
Should there be a list of produced albums? Portillo (talk) 10:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC) yea Neo139 (talk) 01:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Added --Neo139 (talk) 21:39, 22 December 2010 (UTC)r

Son?
Is Steve Steinman (who has collaborated on some Meat Loaf-related projects) his son? 64.8.155.45 (talk) 16:16, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Intro paragraph projects confusion.
All the Steinman attributions make no differentiation between songs written by him, and the songs produced by him. This is misleading as well as confusing, and should be rectified for the sake of clarity. I hope someone else will fix it. If not, I'll try to wade through it if I get time. Gil gosseyn (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Jewish American
I've shifted a new edit, about his being Jewish American, from the intro to the Personal Life section, where this sort of thing seems to sit in most biographies about people from the United States. I've also added a citation from an admittedly poor source: a brief reference in an old newspaper article which has been reprinted on what looks like a fan site. It's all I could find, sorry. Meticulo (talk) 00:28, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jim Steinman


text:
Furniture music

Furniture music, or in French musique d’ameublement (sometimes more literally translated as furnishing music), is background music originally played by live performers. The term was coined by Erik Satie in 1917.

The music
Although other selections of Erik Satie's music can be experienced (and are sometimes indicated) as furniture music, Satie himself applied the name only to five short pieces, composed in three separate sets:
 * 1st set (1917), for flute, clarinet and strings, plus a trumpet for the first piece:
 * 1. Tapisserie en fer forgé – pour l'arrivée des invités (grande réception) – À jouer dans un vestibule – Mouvement: Très riche (Tapestry in forged iron – for the arrival of the guests (grand reception) – to be played in a vestibule – Movement: Very rich)
 * 2. Carrelage phonique – Peut se jouer à un lunch ou à un contrat de mariage – Mouvement: Ordinaire (Phonic tiling – Can be played during a lunch or civil marriage – Movement: Ordinary),
 * 2nd set, Sons industriels (Industrial sounds, February/March 1920), for piano duet, 3 clarinets and trombone:
 * Premier Entr'acte: Chez un "Bistrot" (First Entr'acte: At a "Bistro")
 * Second Entr'acte: Un salon (Second Entr'acte: A drawing room)
 * 3rd set (1923), commissioned by Mrs Eugène Meyer jr. (living in Washington DC), for small orchestra:
 * Tenture de cabinet préfectoral (Wall-lining in a chief officer's office)

The first set was apparently never performed (nor the score published) during Satie's lifetime.

The second set contained reminiscences of popular tunes by, amongst others, Camille Saint-Saëns and Ambroise Thomas. It was premiered in Paris the year it was composed, as intermission music to a lost comedy by Max Jacob. During these intermissions the audience was invited to visit an exposition of children's drawings in the Galerie Barbazanges that was hosting the premiere.

Indications of the intentions of the artists giving the first performance are found in the manuscript of the score: Furnishing divertissement organised by the group of musicians known as the "Nouveaux Jeunes"

Furnishing music replaces "waltzes" and "operatic fantasias" etc. Don't be confused! It's something else!!! No more "false music"

Furnishing music completes one's property;

it's new; it doesn't upset customs; it isn't tiring; it's French; it won't wear out; it isn't boring

--quoted in Gillmor, 1988, p 325-326

See also the Entr'acte article for more details regarding the circumstances of this first, and only documented, public performance of furniture music during Satie's lifetime, assisted by the composer himself.

The separate commissioned piece was sent to America. There are no known public performances or publications of this music prior to leaving the European continent. This piece is sometimes presented as furniture music No. 3.

As Satie's pieces of furniture music were very short pieces, with an indefinite number of repeats, this kind of furniture music later became associated with repetitive music (sometimes used as a synonym of minimal music), but this kind of terminology did not yet exist in Satie's time.

Publication
For a quarter of a century after the composer's death, all of the furniture music pieces remained hidden from the general public, apart from being mentioned in early Satie biographies. By the end of the 1960s parts of the furniture music started to appear as facsimile illustrations to press articles and new Satie biographies. The first full publication of sets 1 and 3 followed in the early 1970s. There was no full publication of the second set before the last years of the 20th century.

Revival
Several decades after Satie's death, furniture music was revived, largely due to the American composer John Cage, as the composer's theory of minimalist background music. Furniture music appeared as the launchpad for minimalist/experimental/avant-garde music since it was the first instance of music being played or produced out of context: not as a centerpiece but as a cerebral backdrop.

These and other related ideas were picked up by several composers of the neoclassical/20th-century school of music, accentuating atmosphere and texture over traditional form and movement. The minimalist references and anachronisms were not solidified until composer John Cage performed Satie's "hidden" piece Vexations 840 times as requested by Satie's own scribbled notes on the original sheet music.

title: Furniture music


text:
Talk:See No Evil (2006 film)

Change to page
According to the 4/10 Raw Show it was said in a promo that the kids are on work release from jail and not community service — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.93.105.179 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 11 April 2006

I'd say the movie will turn a decent profit but don't expect record setting box office numbers or anything. For one thing, it's only going to be released in less than 1,300 theaters nationwide and it's going up against The Da Vinci Code this weekend and X-Men: The Last Stand next weekend. Due to the WWE fanbase and hardcore horror fans, I'd say the movie will do 8 to 10 million dollars worth of business this weekend, which is about equal to the production budget. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.162.182.61 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 20 May 2006

- 8 to 10 million? In what universe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.210.72.19 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 21 May 2006

"after two weeks, the movie stood at over $9.8 million, thus turning over a 2 million dollar profit"

That should be removed. A movie making just above it's production budget is not considered profitable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.110.237.246 (talk • contribs) 05:09, 30 June 2006

Rammstein
wat for a number has de rammsteinsong mein teil in the soundtrack? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.175.125.149 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 14 October 2006

UK
Does nayone know if see no evil is coming to the uk on dvd? Black6989 09:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)Black6989

Fair use rationale for Image:See no evil.jpg
Image:See no evil.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism?
Just glancing over the trivia section. Was wondering if this was vandalism or not:

 * At the end of the movie after about 30 seconds into the credits a scene showing Jacob dead and with a hole where his eye was a dog comes over and pees in his eye socket. During the commentary on the DVD Kane said, (jokingly) that when he finds this dog he's going to do something bad to it.

If it isn't, however, I have to say that it's wording is ridiculous and needs to be fixed. Otherwise I'm going to remove it. 67.142.130.44 15:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

plot
What kind of plot is that, there is heaps more in the movie then that. Ill be happy to change it to a REAL plot if someone gives me the ok. -- M et al to the M ax!   23:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But ofcourse nobody says a thing, why because nobody cares on wikipedia, its all about editing, but ur lucky if an edit lasts a week before its changed or deleted.-- -T he Gr eat   One   11:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Do it. The plot section here is out of control and probably too long. Tripnoted (talk) 22:05, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.   A rbitrarily 0   ( talk ) 18:30, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

See No Evil (film) → See No Evil (2006 film) – This film was mentioned to me in another discussion, so I learned there is the 1971 film of the same name. I learned that disambiguating films of a similar name and precision could overcome criteria of primary topics of a similar name, especially when "(film)" is used for one of films of a similar name. That's what happened to Psycho (1960 film) and Independence Day (1996 film). George Ho (talk) 18:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per the guidelines to disambiguate films with the same title from each other. Why did a move need to be requested, though? This seems uncontroversial. Erik (talk | contribs) 19:05, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support This seems perfectly reasonable.  Neither film is particularly prominent, so neither really should own the undated title.  But both should get hatnote dabs.  I agree with Erik, this seems quite uncontroversial.  Rwessel (talk) 19:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support Doesn't seem to be WP:PRIMARYTOPIC by anyone's definition. --BDD (talk) 20:27, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support if anything the Mia Farrow film would be the more important, but neither meets WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support WP:NCF ambiguous disambiguation is a bad idea -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 05:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:PRECISION. Betty Logan (talk) 07:21, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per reasons above.LM2000 (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per reasone above --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support; I don't think either has a particularly strong claim to PRIMARYTOPIC, and I'm not aware of any alternative names that we could use for natural disambiguation. bobrayner (talk) 19:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:See No Evil (2006 film)


text:
Talk:Copernicia prunifera

May be Copernicia cerifera is a real plant that is the source of carnauba wax?
Subj. --= APh =-- (talk) 22:47, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Copernicia prunifera