text:
Savoy Truffle

"Savoy Truffle" is a song by the English rock band the Beatles from their 1968 album The Beatles (also known as "the White Album"). The song was written by George Harrison and inspired by his friend Eric Clapton's fondness for chocolate. The lyrics list the various flavours offered in Mackintosh's Good News chocolates and serve as a warning to Clapton about the detrimental effect that his gorging would have on his teeth. Along with Clapton's guest appearance on the White Album track "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and Harrison reciprocating on Cream's "Badge", it is one of several songs that mark the start of a long-lasting musical association between the two guitarists.

The Beatles recorded "Savoy Truffle" in October 1968, towards the end of the five-month sessions for the album. An upbeat rock track in the soul genre, the song reflects Harrison's return to the guitar as his main musical instrument after two years of studying the Indian sitar. The recording includes a Chris Thomas-arranged horn section, and introduced the horn-heavy sound that became a feature of Harrison's music as a solo artist. Through the lyrics' reference to "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", the song is also an example of the Beatles' use of self-quotation in their later work.

On release, "Savoy Truffle" was viewed by many commentators as a sign of Harrison's growing maturity as a songwriter. Among more recent assessments, Ian MacDonald cited it as an example of the lesser material found on The Beatles, while Daryl Easlea of BBC Music describes it as one of the "doodles that delight" and "a fine counterweight" to "While My Guitar Gently Weeps". Ella Fitzgerald, Terry Manning and They Might Be Giants have also recorded the song.

Background and inspiration
George Harrison wrote "Savoy Truffle" in September 1968, by which point the Beatles had been working on their eponymous double album (also known as "the White Album") for over three months. This period was one of disharmony within the band, following their mixed experiences while attending an advanced course in Transcendental Meditation in India early in the year, a group activity that had been led by Harrison's commitment to Eastern spirituality. Away from his work with the Beatles in 1968, Harrison increasingly spent time with Eric Clapton, leading to occasional musical collaborations between the two guitarists and a lifelong friendship. Having contributed to Harrison's solo album Wonderwall Music, Clapton was invited to play on his White Album track "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" on 6 September, marking a rare appearance by another rock musician on a Beatles recording as Harrison sought to defuse tensions within the band.

In an interview with the NME in late September, Harrison said he was keen to depart from his image as "Mystical Beatle George" and now wanted to contribute songs without any profound message. He wrote "Savoy Truffle" as a tribute to Clapton's sweet tooth. He derived the title and much of the lyrics from a box of Mackintosh's Good News chocolates, which Clapton began eating during one of his visits to Harrison's home. Many of the confectionery names used in the song are authentic; others, such as cherry cream, coconut fudge and pineapple heart, were Harrison's invention, based on the flavours listed inside the lid of the box. For the lyrics to the second of the song's bridge sections, Harrison received assistance from Derek Taylor, the press officer for the Beatles' new record label, Apple Records. In keeping with the theme of Harrison's composition, Taylor drew inspiration from the title of the American counterculture film You Are What You Eat, which was itself titled after a fashionable macrobiotic slogan.

Musicologist Walter Everett suggests that "Savoy Truffle" might have been an attempt to rewrite the Byrds' "less innocent" 1968 track "Artificial Energy", which warns of the dangers of amphetamines. The song also reflects Harrison's rediscovery of his passion for rhythm and blues. Coinciding with this, he had returned to the guitar as his main instrument in 1968, after two years of studying the sitar under the guidance of Indian classical musician Ravi Shankar.

Composition
"Savoy Truffle" is primarily in the key of E minor, although the melody continually shifts to the parallel, major equivalent, in addition to anchoring briefly in G major. Musicologist Alan Pollack identifies the composition's harmonic style as one that "makes you feel constantly on the move, on the threshold of some new breakthrough", and he adds: "There are other Beatles' songs that exploit this triumvirate of keys (i.e. a parallel Major/minor pair and the relative Major), but never quite with such audacity." Throughout, the meter is 4/4, with the exception of a number of bars in 6/8, delivered in an assertive, driving tempo. The song's main musical style is soul music, while its melody and mood partly recall "Sour Milk Sea", which Harrison wrote earlier in 1968.

In the verses, Harrison lists a variety of chocolate flavours, beginning with "creme tangerine" and "Montélimar". He employs wordplay to incorporate the Mackintosh's brand name in his closing phrase to the first verse: "yes, you know it's 'good news'". The refrain throughout the song – "But you'll have to have them all pulled out after the savoy truffle" – refers to the deterioration of one's teeth after eating too many sweets, echoing the warning that Clapton had recently received from his dentist.

Over the second bridge, Harrison adapted Taylor's suggestion to read "You know that what you eat you are". In the same section, a subsequent line names the track "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", a Paul McCartney composition that would also appear on The Beatles. In this way, "Savoy Truffle" continued a tradition initiated by John Lennon in 1967, particularly in his lyrics to "I Am the Walrus", whereby the Beatles deliberately quoted from their previous songs.

Since "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" was not a song that McCartney's bandmates enjoyed recording, the motive behind Harrison's appropriation of the title has invited speculation. Author Jeffrey Roessner considers it significant that Harrison mispronounces the title; in addition, he contends that the full statement – "We all know Ob-la-di-bla-da / But can you show me where you are?" – serves as an example of Harrison, like Lennon, mocking those listeners who obsessively scanned the Beatles' lyrics for hidden meaning. Music journalist Robert Fontenot interprets the lines as an expression of distaste for "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", since Harrison and Lennon were openly critical of McCartney's composition.

Recording
The Beatles taped the basic track for "Savoy Truffle" at Trident Studios in London on 3 October 1968, the day after Harrison had recorded his and Clapton's song "Badge" for Cream's forthcoming album. In his NME interview the previous month, Harrison expressed satisfaction with his increased guitar contributions to the Beatles' recent recording sessions; he also said that their album would be a return to the "funky" rock approach that had characterised their pre-fame performances at Liverpool's Cavern club and in Hamburg. With Lennon absent between 3 and 7 October, the line-up on the rhythm track was Harrison on electric guitar, McCartney on bass, and Ringo Starr on drums. Overdubs took place on 5 October, again at Trident, and then on 11 and 14 October, at EMI Studios (now Abbey Road Studios). Chris Thomas, as assistant to the Beatles' producer, George Martin, played electric piano on the song.

During the 11 October session, six saxophonists (three baritone and three tenor) performed overdubs, arranged by Thomas. These horn players were all veterans of the British jazz scene and included Art Ellefson and Ronnie Ross. Ken Scott, the Beatles' recording engineer, recalls that Harrison thought the saxophones sounded "too clean ... too nice" and so asked that they be treated with heavy distortion. Scott also cites Harrison's curt dismissal of Martin's objections, that the song sounded too "toppy", as evidence of the Beatles' growing independence during the making of the White Album – a project in which Martin played a mainly peripheral role. In author Nicholas Schaffner's description, the song's "beefy horns" became "a trademark" of Harrison's work following the Beatles' break-up in 1970.

The 14 October date marked the final recording session for The Beatles. With Starr away in Sardinia, the overdubs consisted of another lead guitar part by Harrison, and organ, tambourine and bongos, although the latter contribution does not appear in the final mix. Harrison and Thomas have each been credited as the organ player. According to Everett, there are two organ parts, the second of which provides a "soft, whirling" sound over the more "sustained" part. In his description of the finished recording, Jonathan Gould notes the aptness of Harrison's vocal delivery, where the list of chocolate flavours "roll off George's tongue like a catalog of life's little pleasures". He also comments on the effectiveness of Harrison's guitar solo, which, further to the lyric's warnings regarding tooth decay, is "pitched to the register of a dentist's drill".

Mixing on "Savoy Truffle" was also completed on 14 October, after which Harrison left for Los Angeles to produce Jackie Lomax's album Is This What You Want? The stereo and mono mixes of the song differ in their editing of the lead guitar parts. In addition, the mono version omits the organ over the third verse.

Release and reception
Apple Records released The Beatles on 22 November 1968. "Savoy Truffle" was sequenced as the third track on side four of the double LP, between "Honey Pie" and "Cry Baby Cry". As with Harrison's other three contributions to the album, including "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", the song was viewed by many commentators as a sign of his growing maturity as a songwriter beside Lennon and McCartney.

Due to the Beatles' use of pastiche, parody, irony and, in the case of "Savoy Truffle" and Lennon's "Glass Onion", self-quotation, the album's lyrics were intensely analysed by contemporary reviewers. Alan Walsh of Melody Maker described "Savoy Truffle" as "a rocker that's the most obscure track lyrically". Record Mirror's reviewer speculated that the song "could either be a delicate and expensive sweet or a new dance. It could be a delivery on the pomposities of intricate desserts or a depiction of the 'upper' class." The writer then concluded: "Whatever it is, it swings." Alan Smith of the NME said that although he was "not particularly partial" to the song, "there's a good, heavy sound and I'm not complaining."

In his review for International Times, Barry Miles wrote: "George's 'Savoy Truffle' is the best track on this [LP] side. Beautiful, impressionistic music. Don't miss this one." Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone praised Harrison's lead guitar playing throughout the album and highlighted the song as an example of the Beatles' success in progressing on their past work, in this case by creating "a more sophisticated look at 'Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds'". In Newsweek's mainly unfavourable review, Hubert Saal concluded by saying that Harrison was the album's "hero", as the composer of its two best songs, "Savoy Truffle" and "Long, Long, Long", and that the former "appears to sing the praises of food and in fact is all about suffering".

Retrospective assessment
Given the lack of stylistic unity across its 30 tracks, many authors have since scrutinised the content of The Beatles with regard to whether the album would have benefited from being scaled down to a single disc, an assertion that Martin repeatedly voiced. In his book Revolution in the Head, Ian MacDonald dismisses "Savoy Truffle" as "space-filling" and "as pointless as ['Honey Pie']". In a 2003 review for Mojo magazine, he described it more favourably as "an efficient jeu d'esprit". Author Alan Clayson has questioned its inclusion in light of Harrison having more substantial compositions that went unrecorded by the band, and, in the case of "Not Guilty", a song that the Beatles recorded but then omitted from the White Album. In his attempt to reduce the 1968 release to a single LP, Mark Caro of the Chicago Tribune listed all of Harrison's contributions except for "Savoy Truffle", which he included in his "toughest deletions" category, along with three Lennon-written songs. Writing in the 2004 Rolling Stone Album Guide, Rob Sheffield said that such scrutiny had long been part of the double album's legacy. He described the track as being "among the Beatles' finest songs".

Beatles biographer Philip Norman considers "Savoy Truffle" to be "the album's best piece of rock and roll" after McCartney's "Back in the U.S.S.R." While admiring the interplay between the saxophones and lead guitar as "rousing rock-'n'-roll confectionery", Tim Riley views the song as one of the "essentials" on The Beatles and, with regard to the "sheer feel" of the performance, Harrison's most successful contribution to the band's discography since "I Want to Tell You" in 1966. Former Creem critic Richard Riegel included "Savoy Truffle" on his 1996 list of the ten most underrated Beatles tracks, saying: "this is a great song by any standard, certainly the most fun George would have in the sensual world for many years to come. 'Savoy Truffle' is wonderfully British psychedelic throwaway pop, much like Cream on their pop-tarty Disraeli Gears, recorded back when Eric Clapton was a mortal, too." In the opinion of author Mark Hertsgaard, the song's most salient features are its "beefy horns" and the lyric directed at McCartney. He grouped it with "Glass Onion", "Wild Honey Pie" and "Don't Pass Me By" as examples of how each of the four Beatles were represented on the White Album by tracks that, although short of the band's best work, were "certainly the equal of most other pop songs of the era".

Among more recent reviews, Daryl Easlea of BBC Music cites "Savoy Truffle" as an example of "the doodles that delight" on the White Album, and he describes it as "a fine counterweight" to "While My Guitar Gently Weeps". Mark Kemp, writing for Paste, highlights the same pair of tracks as "two of Harrison's finest moments ('While My Guitar Gently Weeps,' with Eric Clapton wailing on lead guitar, and the surrealistic soul of 'Savoy Truffle')".

"Savoy Truffle" was included on the Beatles' 2012 iTunes compilation Tomorrow Never Knows, which the band's website described as a collection of "the Beatles' most influential rock songs". In 2015, it was ranked 66th in the NME's list "100 Greatest Beatles Songs As Chosen By Music's A-Listers". Staff writer Leonie Cooper admired its subject matter and described the track as a "typically off-kilter" Harrison composition. Coinciding with the 50th anniversary of the White Album's release, Jacob Stolworthy of The Independent listed "Savoy Truffle" at number 7 in his ranking of the album's 30 tracks. He said it was "the album's most criminally overlooked song" as well as "The Beatles at their most underrated".

Cover versions and remixes
Ella Fitzgerald covered "Savoy Truffle" on her 1969 album Ella, produced by Richard Perry. Jayson Greene of Pitchfork cites her "jazzy spin" on the track as an example of how Harrison's songwriting appealed to soul and jazz artists and invited fresh interpretations. In 1970, Terry Manning included the song on his album Home Sweet Home. The recording features Robert Moog on synthesizer and has been described by PopMatters as "long, freaked out" and "sublimely excessive".

Phish included "Savoy Truffle" in their performance of The Beatles on Halloween 1994, which was released in 2002 as Live Phish Volume 13. The song was They Might Be Giants' contribution to the 2003 compilation Songs from the Material World: A Tribute to George Harrison.

Along with a sample of the Beatles' "Glass Onion", the song was mashed with Jay-Z's "Encore" for a track on Danger Mouse's The Grey Album in 2004, creating what Spin magazine's reviewer termed a "psychedelic Stax jam". For the Beatles' 2006 remix album Love, the track's horn parts were mixed into "Drive My Car". Dhani Harrison performed "Savoy Truffle" at the George Fest tribute concert, held at the Fonda Theatre in Los Angeles on 28 September 2014.

Personnel
According to authors John Winn and Kenneth Womack, except where noted:

The Beatles

 * George Harrison – double-tracked vocal, rhythm guitar, lead guitars, Hammond organ, acoustic guitar (fill)
 * Paul McCartney – harmony vocal, bass guitar
 * Ringo Starr – drums
 * uncredited – tambourine

Additional musicians
 * Chris Thomas – electric piano, organ, horn arrangement
 * Art Ellefson – tenor saxophone
 * Danny Moss – tenor saxophone
 * Derek Collins – tenor saxophone
 * Ronnie Ross – baritone saxophone
 * Harry Klein – baritone saxophone
 * Bernard George – baritone saxophone

title: Savoy Truffle


text:
Talk:Kid Icarus

Palutena
I wonder, were the translators working for Nintendo not given the Japanese-market pamphlets and other junk that would have accompanied the game in the box? How did they screw up translating "パルテナ" (pa-ru-te-na) into "Palutena", when the name on the box was clearly written "Parthena" (presumably in romaji)? LOL. —Ryanaxp 19:13, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

I'm curious about that too, especially since "Parthena" is a real Greek female first name... The Trashman 00:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As the official Super Smash Bros. Brawl website still lists her name as Palutena, and it seems to only ever been rendered as such in English, shouldn't Wikipedia refer to the character using this official name (rather than adopt a fan translation, even if it's a more accurate translation)? 67.165.72.229 02:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I have made note that "Palutena" is the official romanization (translation error, or not). I have kept "Parthena" as a note of an alternate English spelling (along with "Parutena").

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have the Japanese game for the famicom disk system and it clearly says in Japanese katakana PARUTENA. That's on the box, my friend.
 * Duh, that's how it'd be written in katakana, but it's a Greek name, and it's Parthena.

PLEASE SIGN YOUR POSTS.
 * No

"Palutena" has to be one of the worst translation errors I have ever seen. Are they actually going to call the character "Palutena" in Smash Brothers X? I know a Parthena in real life, and I seriously doubt she'd answer if someone called her "Palutena". Any chance Smash Brothers X's translators consult Wikipedia? Or will they keep recycling translations from the 80's? 85.75.185.18 08:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the developers meant Pallas Athena. --Stormwatch (talk) 09:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

As evidenced by Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Nintendo's official site, "Palutena" is the official name. Whether you think "Parthena" is a more precise translation or if "Palutena" is a failed translation has zero bearing on the matter; the official information is clear. 207.119.231.131 (talk) 09:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Noting that "Palutena" is the official information does not preclude the article noting that Nintendo mistranslated the word that should correctly be "Parthena". The English manual also mistranslates the second boss' name as "Hewdraw", even though anyone remotely familiar with Greek mythology knows that it's "Hydra".NewRisingSun (talk) 14:53, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

The section about passwords
Under the history section is a list of "good passwords" from the game. I didn't delete it but I'm wondering if it is appropriate.CDiddles

seriously???
i can't believe that when you look up kid icarus there is hardly any mention to greek mythology....its all about the video game. what is the world coming too?!? lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.203.47 (talk • contribs)
 * There's a mention in Kid Icarus, but other than that, I don't think we need anything else. Do you?  --Merovingian ※ Talk 01:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Passwords
I looked up passwords on Gamefaqs and even when I type them right, it says it's wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.184.46.20 (talk) 22:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

That's because the VC version's passwords were changed from the original.

Editting by morons
It's been editted. I poke around the video game parts of Wikipedia, and some moron added his comments while deleting the plot. Might as well put the plot back up and permentally lock it. It's not gonna change. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.71.32.121 (talk) 23:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC).

Year it was made in.
What's is the meaning of chaning back to 1986. Kid Icarus was made in 1981 not 1986. Those were the years Nintendo was computerized stickers from 1981-1985. Donkey Kong was computerized, so was Donkey Kong Jr., Mario and etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.196.178.200 (talk) 20:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Except the NES didnt exist in 1981. You are dumb

TOSE
TOSE was definitely involved as they leased contracted programmers to Nintendo often. The company did a lot of subcontracting work for Nintendo (and SEGA, Namco, etc). But the game was very much a Nintendo R&D1 game. (NOAWiki (talk) 01:35, 16 October 2011 (UTC))

TOSE's role in development is not well-known. I think they probably just ported the game to the Game Boy, I don't think they really had any role in developing the game itself. Andre (talk) 22:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

TOSE's involvement has been revealed through later code comparisons. They worked on the the original FDS release in some coding capacity at the least, even if uncredited. (98.14.112.115 (talk) 21:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC))

Series Page?
Why does this need a whole page dedicated to the series if there are only two games and a few cameos? Can't we just mash them all into one, like how the Vectorman article is set up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.77.245 (talk) 21:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it is simpler this way. -User talk:mkalv
 * Personally, I think it would be better to have the page for the series seperate from the pages for individual games, simply to make it easier to edit in the future, and so that people know which page to go to for a certain piece of info. IMO the rationale that there are only a few games doesn't hold. Thomasdav (talk) 03:56, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

GameBoy release
this was also released on the original GameBoy in 1992 i will look for the release schedules for the dates —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thh420 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

why is there nothing about kid icarus wii? it exists : http://wii.kombo.com/article.php?artid=11895 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.74.182.80 (talk) 15:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Difficulty
In my travels, this game has a notorious reputation for being one of the most difficult games in video game history... even to this day. By comparison, Battletoads mentions it's reputation as a difficult game, but I've beaten it. I still cannot beat Kid Icarus. - tbone (talk) 23:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I'll second that. It's the hardest of the 8 bit platformers that I've played.  I don't know how or why we could put that in the article, but I agree.  I've never beaten it either, although emulation should make that a fairly easy task these days.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.182.8.21 (talk) 13:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Finley?
The article introduces the main character as "Pit", but then all of a sudden starts referring to him interchangeably as "Finley" without any explanation or introduction. What's up with that? --HunterZ (talk) 17:43, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Putto
The article should probably link to putto, if the main character is one. My intuition says yes, but who knows. --Easyas12c (talk) 21:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Why a disambiguation?
There are two things that one might think of when they think of this - the video game and the band [which is far less significant]. The series page, while it exists, is really redundant to this. The NES game is the root of all the series' influence; no one remembers Of Myths and Monsters, so it seems silly to suggest that as a brand, it's more well-known than the game. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 05:17, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

About the series it those exist and many pepole have played it, just kike metroid 2, and the latest interview with nintendo gives ideas that there planing to make a wii sequel. -- Pedro J. the rookie 12:42, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That there is an incredibly less well-known sequel and a rumoured Wii sequel does not warrant the existence of a series page. The series page is, basically, this page rewritten. Hell, the Reception section is nothing BUT content related to the original game. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 17:23, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:21, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Kid Icarus (video game) → Kid Icarus — Relisted. From the discussion following this one, it appears that there is now support for an overall Kid Icarus article which could negate the reasons behind moving this if that is not created at Kid Icarus (series). So this is just to allow time to see how that develops. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:58, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Redundant disambiguation. Kid Icarus already redirects to this article. Also per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, this page is clearly the primary topic so it shouldn't be disambiguated. Mika1h (talk) 13:19, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

 * Support. The only other things with the name Kid Icarus are sequels and a band that takes its name from this game. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 04:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Support. 220.101.4.140 (talk) 02:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Series page
"Kid Icarus (series)" currently redirects here. While it has made sense before, I believe the announcement of a third Kid Icarus game is enough to warrant Kid Icarus as big enough a franchise to deserve an article dedicated to the series as a whole. I believe such an article should be made and 'Kid Icarus (series)' should no longer redirect here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Juan7077 (talk • contribs) 05:50, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you. An article about the series would be good to write about recurring elements, history, etc. RocketWobbuffet (talk) 17:43, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Recurring elements could be covered here. We need reception and development information that isn't redundant to this article. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:53, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Nintendo's little newbie/oldie
I think Nintendo is gonna run with Kid Icarus, like DK, Mario, Link, Kirby, Samus, Pikachu, etc. I'd be nice to see him more than 6(KI,KI:MoM,KI GB,SSBM,SSBB,KI:U) times over the course of 24 years. *sigh* Pit, your alright. Uprising is so amazing, it makes you in the 80's look like a piece of crap(that kinda hurt me). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.217.224 (talk) 07:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Kiss of gratitude from Palutena
FYI I removed "and will receive a kiss of gratitude from Palutena" after "...teenager" in plot because if you watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYsNpQmQ7sk you see that it clearly doesn't happen. It this vitally important work? No. Is it good to be accurate? Yes. 220.101.4.140 (talk) 02:49, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Merger
I think a merger of Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters to Kid Icarus would be appropriate, as there is not enough unique feature material and coverage in reliable third-party sources. I checked all possible magazine scans from that time, and there seem to be no actual reviews on the game. Beyond that, the gameplay is almost identical to that of Kid Icarus. All unique information on the game is included in the first paragraph of the legacy section, but the chances of a standalone article getting even just to "good article" status are extremely low, given the lack of coverage on development and reception. Prime Blue (talk) 20:45, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But what if it becomes ported to the Nintendo 3DS' Virtual Console and cause more reviews to pop up? Parrothead1983 (talk) 00:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Can still be split if this happens (preferably with some development information), but at the moment, there is not much that sets it apart from the original game. Prime Blue (talk) 00:52, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I congratulate you on your massive expansion/cleanup of the article. I don't know how it was considered a Good Article before, but it definitely meets it now. Although, I have revived the sequel's article with some references. Tomorrow I may flesh them out and look for a few more. I really don't think it should be merged. Blake (Talk·Edits) 03:25, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Consider me excited about that expansion. Prime Blue (talk) 10:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Series Page
What with Kid Icarus: Uprising coming out soon, and nintendo's plans to make Kid Icarus a more "Recognizable" brand, I think a page for the whole Kid Icarus series would be appropriate.206.248.167.220 (talk) 22:22, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The 3D Classics version code includes in the Pre-order of Kid Icarus: Uprising (North America only)
I got an e-mail from Club Nintendo memberships that they said:

"Pre-order Kid Icarus: Uprising at select retailers and receive a bonus download code for the 3D Classics: Kid Icarus game upon final purchase."- Nintendo email

And the consumers who pre-order at GameSpot, Best Buy, or Amazon will receive a bonus download code for the 3D Classics: Kid Icarus game and the download code will be delivered with the purchase of Kid Icarus: Uprising. A deposit may be required for pre-order. Offer good at US retailers only.

Here's this link that they gave from the email:
 * http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/leoRNk4z_ui0yblzMlCVz6Wy9jGb5qSq

Should we consider adding it to the page and maybe add it to Kid Icarus: Uprising and add the Note on the List of Virtual Console games for Nintendo 3DS (North America) also?

DigiPen92 (talk) 04:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Kid Icarus franchise page
If there are some pages for the three Kid Icarus games and Pit, shouldn't we consider a page for the characters that appear in the Kid Icarus franchise? Rtkat3 (talk) 8:39, April 14 2012 (UTC)

Reliable Source?
A source was added by user Deltasim regarding the remake and I had removed it as I feel it does not meet Wikipedia’s reliable source criteria (mainly because a reliable source must have multiple authors, level’s or review, and several differing points of view). They added the source back and in good faith I have not reverted the edit so as to avoid an edit war. Let’s get a consensus on this please.

This is the source in question: http://vgmaps.com/Reviews/Editorial-didFlipIndustriesReallyCreateSuperKidIcarus.htm

Fattestalbert (talk) 18:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Rubbish that page has well meet Wikipedia’s reliable source criteria. Firstly there are multiple sources mentioned within the webpage article itself, which includes the wayback machine and the other archive links. The Verifiability issues mentions nothing about multiple authors. And differing points of view doesn't count, correction neutral points of view are viable, or did you forget what you said earlier "It is not up to opinion"? I won't challenge the valid point added and allow other Wikipedians to be the judge of that. Deltasim (talk) 18:40, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Please be respectful, and I pulled these sentences directly from the reliability section for news "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces are reliable for attributed statements as to the opinion of the author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." and "While the reporting of rumors has a limited news value, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and should include verifiable information. Wikipedia is not the place for passing along gossip and rumors."

I am still adamant that the original source, and the source you just added are not reliable based on Wikipedia reliability guidelines. Again in good faith, I have not reverted the edits so as to avoid an editing war, however did add a verify tag to the sentence to stimulate a conversation. Fattestalbert (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Please read the wikipedia regulations carefully before you lecture someone about them. I have just erased an unreliable source which deviates from one of the many guidelines that news blogs are not mainly reliable, because Wikipedia is as you just said "not the place for passing along gossip and rumors". Deltasim (talk) 20:15, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Coming over from 3O. The source is reliable for the purpose of verifying that this claim has been made, but using it to state a definite fact is inappropriate. In this case inclusion of the source and related material should be guided by WP:PRIMARY and WP:NPOV. Now, there does seem to be a dispute about whether the material about the fan game should be included at all, but if it does get included the above would apply.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:35, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Unauthorized Kid Icarus Game
So removing this has apparently caused some dissatisfaction, so I guess we better discuss on the talk page. Right now there is a fan made, and therefore in violation of Nintendo's copyrights and trademarks, Kid Icarus game listed in the legacy section. The paragraph on the game reads as an advertisement, hyping its changes to the difficulty with language tinged with sales puffery. Games that violate international copyright laws should really not be included on a page like this, which gives them a misleading air of officialness. If the game were actually notable, then a place would need to be found for it somewhere regardless, but all that is here currently are a few announcements that the game exists from several video game blogs and similar sites. This does not constitute "significant coverage in reliable sources" as required by wikipedia. This is a page abut a Nintendo game with a section on the legacy of this Nintendo franchise. An illegally-made fan game with little coverage in reliable sources does not belong here in my opinion. It should further be noted that a separate article on the game was deleted due to the concerns I have listed here, especially for failing WP:RS and that the user that keeps adding this information here has no other edits and may have a bias in this matter. Indrian (talk) 17:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Similar guidelines may also apply in WP:FAN Deltasim (talk) 18:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Copied from WP:RS/N by Izno.
 * As for the inclusion of the fan-game in that article: I would point out that (1) the test for notability of a paragraph/sentence within an article is much lower than the WP:Notability test for an entire article (see Notability); and (2) The Talk page discussion on this disputed material needs to focus on the sources that discuss the fan-game.  List the sources;  present quotes from the sources;  discuss the prominence of the sources;  compare with other WP articles that include mentions of fan-games.  The mere fact that the fan-game may be distasteful or even illegal is no reason to exclude it.  Also, the fact that the initial version of the fan-game material was poorly written is not a reason for removing it: see WP:IMPROVE and WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM.    --Noleander (talk) 21:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

 * 1) This is true. 2) This is also true. But such sources likely do not exist; see comment by Indrian about lack of RS resulting in a page on the topic being deleted from Wikipedia. 3) Distasteful/illegal can fall afoul of WP:ELNO with respect to primary sourcing of the site. As for IMPROVE: There are enough other concerns that IMPROVE is probably an issue which should be addressed by the person seeking to include the material on Wikipedia rather than other users who are wary of WP:SPAM and such guidelines. On top of that, inclusion is not necessary, even if RSs are provided which deal on the topic; WP is not an indiscriminate hosting of information. We are allowed to exercise editorial judgement about content within a topic of information. In other words, WP:WEIGHT applies and is one of the primary concerns here, though that is not what has been used to argue against inclusion. --Izno (talk) 21:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

As stated by Noleander we are to discuss the sources only, so as I originally stated on Indrian's talk page on May 23rd 2012, I was able to establish notability through 3 seperate reliable 3rd party sources that are typically used to establish notability of video games and were even the same sources used to establish the notability of the entire Kid Icarus article. specifically the sources I used were Joystiq, Siliconera and Screwattack, however there are many more which mention the game in detail. Further, I used direct quotes from the sources in the paragraph. Not sure what else there is to discuss. PeterAmbrosia (talk) 20:29, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

The only thing those sources prove is the existence, not the notability of the game, especially since they contain the discussions and opinions of members. The only thing that could possibly dedicate the game as notable is awards, something my research has found none given to it. Deltasim (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, no we can talk about anything we darn well please and Noleander is just offering a few opinions just like everyone else here. No one is dictating what can and cannot be discussed.  Notability requires "significant coverage in reliable sources."  A news blog merely stating that something exists is not providing significant coverage.  This appears to be nothing more than an attempt to promote this game.  The fact that you, PeterAmbrosia, have never edited wikipedia except in relation to this game makes this even more likely.  There are many more concerns than WP:RS, though those concerns alone are more than enough to remove this content, which has already been deleted when it existed in separate article form. This appears to be an end run to keep content about this game on the site by sneaking it into another article, but the lack of coverage creates an undue weight issue as well. Indrian (talk) 12:36, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

 * What's this nonsense about the fan game not having coverage? There's coverage from Games Radar (reliable per WP:VG/S) as well. Now, it definitely doesn't deserve the amount of space that was given to it before, but it does deserve a sentence in the legacy section. Silver  seren C 03:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This presumed coverage is nothing less than a blog. Therefore it cannot be used as a source. Deltasim (talk) 14:06, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hardly. GamesRadar has a consensus at WP:VG/S as being a reliable source (and you're welcome to contend that there). That said, I believe Rabbit is edit warring at this point, and I suspect Rabbit has a conflict of interest. --Izno (talk) 17:56, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * In addition Rabbit is repeatedly erasing the vital point that I included with the fan game legacy and predictably he gives no valid reason to its removal. What do you say to that attitude? Deltasim (talk) 13:46, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Sadly the sources I used to cite the plagarism of the fan game were not applicable. Mind you the Self-Published source of http://vgmaps.com/Reviews/Editorial-DidFlipIndustriesReallyCreateSuperKidIcarus.htm states that the Wayback Machine as a definite proof to whose idea came first. I honestly don't see any difference between the GoNintendo page and the GamesRadar page. If anyone has any viable sources to cite about the plagarism, please add them. I am moving on and no longer wasting my time with any sock puppets concerned with this article. Deltasim (talk) 09:08, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Franchise Page
Kid Icarus has three games, all of which sold relatively well, and Pit has appeared in outside media (See: Captain N, SSBB). I feel Kid Icarus deserves a franchise page akin to Punch Out!! and Animal Crossing. I'd do it myself but I'm still a novice at Wikipedia, plus I'd probably mess it up somehow. Umbreon00 (talk) 18:00, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Kid Icarus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.gamesradar.com/fan-made-super-kid-icarus-imagines-pit-snes/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 21:35, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 20 external links on Kid Icarus. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131421345100/http://www.metropulse.com/news/2012/apr/25/kid-icarus-uprising-shows-what-3ds-can-really-do-f/ to http://www.metropulse.com/news/2012/apr/25/kid-icarus-uprising-shows-what-3ds-can-really-do-f/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_pk/vc_pk_04.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_pk/vc_pk_05.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/nes/icarus.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_pk/vc_pk_02.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.computerandvideogames.com/281070/features/time-machine-kid-icarus/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.gamespot.com/nes/action/kidicarus/similar.html?mode=versions
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_pk/vc_pk_03.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.1up.com/news/retro-roundup-nestravaganza
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://retro.ign.com/articles/884/884530p1.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ign.com/top-100-nes-games/20.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://top100.ign.com/2003/81-90.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101221005937/http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/gameslist/manuals/completeoldgameslist.pdf to https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/gameslist/manuals/completeoldgameslist.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.creators-station.jp/interview2/index.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://kotaku.com/5585249/the-new-kid-icarus-may-explore-another-dimension-multiplayer
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://games.ign.com/articles/995/995409p2.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.factor5.de/index.php?page=chome
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://kotaku.com/5491419/nintendo-would-happily-make-kid-icarus-wii
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/06/16/project_sora_kid_icarus/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.1up.com/news/making-kid-icarus-uprising

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:14, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Auction
I just wanted to leave a quick heads up to this news article about a sealed copy that is expected to fetch around $10,000 at auction. Depending on the final price, it might be something to add to the article (or not). The auction closes later today according to the source. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:35, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Kid Icarus


text:
Eastern Romance languages

The Eastern Romance languages are a group of Romance languages. The group, also called the Balkan Romance or Daco-Romance languages, comprises the Romanian language (Daco-Romanian), the Aromanian language and two other related minor languages, Megleno-Romanian and Istro-Romanian.

Some classifications also include the extinct Dalmatian language (otherwise included in the Italo-Dalmatian group) as part of the Eastern Romance subgroup, considering Dalmatian a bridge between Italian and Romanian.

Languages
Eastern Romance comprises Romanian (or Daco-Romanian), Aromanian, Megleno-Romanian and Istro-Romanian, according to the most widely accepted classification of the Romance languages. The four languages sometimes labelled as dialects of Romanian—developed from a common ancestor mostly referred as Common Romanian. They are surrounded by non-Romance languages. Judaeo-Spanish (or Ladino) is also spoken in the Balkan Peninsula, but it is rarely listed among the other Romance languages of the region because it is rather an Iberian Romance language that developed as a Jewish dialect of Old Spanish in the far west of Europe, and it only began to be spoken widely in the Balkans after the influx of Ladino-speaking refugees into the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century.

Internal classification
Within the Glottolog database, the languages are classified as follows:

 * Eastern Romance
 * Aromanian
 * Northern Romanian
 * Eastern Romanian
 * Megleno-Romanian
 * Romanian
 * Istro Romanian

Peter R. Petrucci, by contrast, states that Common Romanian had developed into two major dialects by the 10th century, and that Daco-Romanian and Istro-Romanian are descended from the northern dialect, while Megleno-Romanian and Aromanian are descended from the southern dialect.

Samples of Eastern Romance languages
Note: the lexicon used below is not universally recognized

title: Eastern Romance languages


text:
John Kinder Labatt

John Kinder Labatt (1803 – 26 October 1866) was an Irish-Canadian brewer and the founder of the Labatt Brewing Company.

Life and career
He was born in Queen's County (now County Laois), Ireland, to Valentine Knightley Chetwode Labat (1761–1813), an Irish-Huguenot, and Jane Harper Labat. Little is known of his early years.

Labatt immigrated to Canada in the 1830s and initially established himself as a farmer near London, Upper Canada. In 1847, he invested in a brewery with a partner, Samuel Eccles, launching "Labatt and Eccles". When Eccles retired in 1854, Labatt acquired his interest and renamed the firm the "London Brewery". He was assisted by his sons Ephraim, Robert and John.

In 1849, Labatt started a new venture along with several other London businessmen including Thomas Carline called the Proof Line Road Joint Stock Company. The company built a road that linked London and the northern hinterlands. Upon completion, the road had three tollgates.

Beyond the brewery, Labatt was a town councillor for Saint David's Ward from 1850 to 1851 and a founding member of the London Board of Trade (which is now The London Chamber of Commerce), as well as the founder of the London and Port Stanley Railway.

Upon his death, his son John Labatt purchased the brewery, which grew to become one of the largest in Canada.

title: John Kinder Labatt


text: Wikipedia talk:New contributors' help page


text:
Rushmore Records

Rushmore Records was formerly a subsidiary of Drive-Thru Records. As of September, 2006, Rushmore became an imprint label due to the project being largely unsuccessful.

History
In 2002, two years before the label's official establishment, Rushmore was supposed to be formed as a "new" Drive-Thru Records. The intention was to start the label up during Drive-Thru's distribution agreement with Geffen Records — restricting co-owners Richard and Stefanie Reines from full control over the roster, which is why they were reluctant to sign new talent — and eventually move all of Drive-Thru's bands over to Rushmore. This was meant to be a tactic to avoid Geffen taking over more of the label's roster.

During this time, the first signed artists to be announced were Self Against City and Houston Calls, shortly followed by Day at the Fair and The Track Record a week later. In early 2005, two bands were announced to join the existing four, Madison, and The Cover.

On May 1, 2006, Day at the Fair announced their breakup.

In September 2006, The Track Record parted ways with Rushmore based on the direction of the band. An announcement states: "As of September 1st, we are no longer affiliated with Drive-Thru / Rushmore Records. The split is due to disagreements regarding the direction of the band. While we maintain good terms with the label, there is no more progress to be made in the relationship."

Due to issues with the label's management, Madison decided to break up in September 2006. According to a press release written by the band, the main reason behind why they split was a lack of professionalism and laziness on part of the label. The band claimed, that a month passed before submitted demos were listened to and when questioned about this, the owners responded in an often vulgar and rude manner. In the wake of this, Richard Reines wrote a lengthy response criticising Madison's announcement, mentioning that they took nine months to record said demos, then – at a time when the label had other priorities – impatiently called every couple of days asking if the material had yet been listened to, and ultimately threatened with their breakup if they weren't allowed to start recording an album within two weeks. This came after Madison's original material was rejected as it was produced by Jesse Cannon. Reines stated that he wanted to hear new material because he didn't trust Cannon's ability to produce a full-length record. This was somewhat surprising given the fact that Madison had originally been signed to Rushmore Records after independently producing an EP with Jesse Cannon so all current material which Reine's had heard was produced by the same person. The end result was that over 20 songs were recorded, produced, and mixed over an 18-month period which were never released and never received notes from the label heads.

Also in September 2006, the label dropped The Cover (whose signing was never announced). They rarely showed any activity during their brief time signed to the label.

Presently, Self Against City have finished recording their full-length Telling Secrets to Strangers (released January 9, 2007), while Houston Calls are about to release their second full-length, The End of An Error. (October 14, 2008)

Activity
Despite the label's lack of activity, the Rushmore Records logo has been used on various campaigns by owners Richard & Stefanie Reines. This includes a banner advertisement for You, Me, and Everyone We Know's EP, which was distributed by Drive Thru Records.

Roster

 * Houston Calls
 * Self Against City

Former bands

 * The Background
 * The Cover
 * Madison
 * The Track Record
 * The Mile After

Release catalog
This is the release list of Rushmore Records in order of release number.

 * 1) Self Against City – Take It How You Want It EP (2005)
 * 2) The Track Record – The Track Record EP (2005)
 * 3) Day at the Fair – The Rocking Chair Years (2005)
 * 4) Houston Calls – A Collection of Short Stories (2005)
 * 5) You, Me, and Everyone We Know – Party for the Grown and Sexy EP (2008)

title: Rushmore Records


text:
Romanian Cyrillic alphabet

The Romanian Cyrillic alphabet is the Cyrillic alphabet that was used to write the Romanian language & Church Slavonic until the 1860s, when it was officially replaced by a Latin-based Romanian alphabet. Cyrillic remained in occasional use until the 1920s, mostly in Russian-ruled Bessarabia.

From the 1830s until the full adoption of the Latin alphabet, the Romanian transitional alphabet was in place, combining Cyrillic and Latin letters, and including some of the Latin letters with diacritics that remain in the modern Romanian alphabet. The Romanian Orthodox Church continued using the alphabet in its publications until 1881.

The Romanian Cyrillic alphabet is not the same as the Moldovan Cyrillic alphabet (which is based on the modern Russian alphabet) that was used in the Moldavian SSR for most of the Soviet era and that is still used in Transnistria.

Table of correspondence
The Romanian Cyrillic alphabet was close to the contemporary version of the Early Cyrillic alphabet of the Church Slavonic liturgical language.

Unregulated transitional alphabets
Starting with the 1830s and ending with the official adoption of the Latin alphabet, there were no regulations for writing Romanian, and various alphabets using Cyrillic and Latin letters, besides the mid-transitional version in the table above, were used, sometimes two or more of them in a single book. The following table shows some of the many alphabets used in print.

Example of Romanian Cyrillic text
According to a document from the 1850s, this is how the Romanian Lord's Prayer looked in Cyrillic script. Transcriptional values correspond to the above table.

title: Romanian Cyrillic alphabet


text:
AMX LLC

AMX (formerly AMX, LLC) is an American manufacturer of video switching and control devices. It is currently owned by Harman International Industries, a subsidiary of Samsung Electronics and is part of the Harman Professional Division.

Overview
Scott D. Miller founded AMX in 1982. AMX began with MX Series remote control for projector slide. Miller served as Chief Executive Officer and President of AMX, LLC (alternative name AMX Corporation). AMX designs and manufactures hardware and software for the distribution of video within meeting spaces, as well as across buildings or the globe using IP. They also create products that allow remote control of a wide variety of equipment including HVAC.

AMX invented the world's first touch panel dedicated to room automation in 1988. AMX home automation controls are now also available through separate applications ("apps") for smartphones and tablet PCs through its authorised product partners such as Touch Panel Control. The application is available for iOS, Android, and Windows 8 platforms.

Company growth
Prior to 1999, AMX traded as AMX Corp. It then changed its name to Panja Inc. In 2001, it changed its name to AMX Inc.

In February, 2005, Duchossois Industries, Inc. acquired previously publicly traded AMX for US$315 million.

On November 1, 2006, AMX announced it had acquired Endeleo, a UK-based manufacturer of analog audio visual distribution technologies. Just over a month later on December 4, 2006, AMX announced the acquisition of another signal switching and routing company, Washington-based AutoPatch. Less than two weeks later, Matrix Audio Designs, a Canadian company based in Barrie, Ontario, was acquired by AMX that specializes in high-quality, multi-room distributed audio systems.

On June 18, 2007, AMX announced it had acquired another UK-based company, Inspiration Matters, a manufacturer of digital signage technologies, known for their Inspired Signage brand name.

On October 2, 2007, AMX again announced the acquisition of another UK-based company, ProCon Technology, a company that specializes in configurable control keypad systems, switchers and distribution amplifiers. In less than a year, AMX had acquired five companies, bringing its combined employee head count to over six hundred.

On July 15, 2008, AMX acquired Atrium Group, an IPTV software company that eventually became AMX’s Vision2 IPTV solution.

On March 21, 2014, Harman International Industries, Incorporated announced it had signed an agreement with The Duchossois Group, Inc. and its affiliates to acquire AMX LLC for US$365 million.

System layout
A typical AMX system consists of the following elements:

 * User Interface - The User Interface receives input from a user wanting to control the system. UI devices include touch panels, keypads, remotes, and mobile apps.
 * Master - The "NetLinx Master" is a combination of the CPU, a Linux-based embedded operating system, and RAM and ROM memory. When an event is received via an interface device (such as a button press on a touch panel), the master executes NetLinx code written by a programmer. The Master then sends a message to the Controller, which responds appropriately.
 * Controller - Commands are relayed to it via the master, and the Controller executes the commands to the required devices. Controller can be built into the same device as the master (such as an Enova DVX Series Presentation Video Switcher or a NetLinx NX Series Controller) or separate from it (such as on an ICSLan Control Box or a DXLink transmitter or receiver). Most current master also have control ports on it, but some (most notably the Enova DGX Series Digital Video Switchers) do not.
 * Video Switcher - The video matrix switcher sends video from a selected source the appropriate display. AMX uses a variety of proprietary technologies (such as SmartScale for image resolution scaling and InstaGate Pro for HDCP key handing) to ensure fast, reliable switching of video while maintaining source video quality.

Axcent
AMX used to manufacture the Axcent range of controllers, computing devices designed to be used to control other devices, typically in an Audio-Visual control system. They have now been superseded by the NetLinx controller range.

An example was the "Axcent3 Integrated Axcess Controller" which had 6 RS-232/RS-485 serial ports, 8 Relays, 6 Infrared/Serial ports and 6 Input/Outputs. Serial ports can send and receive serial strings, typically ASCII instructions and replies. Relays permit switching of modest currents. IR ports can send Infrared signals which emulate typical remote control devices that control (for instance) Televisions and VCRs. Input/output ports detect contact closures.

AMX supplies an IDE known as NetLinx Studio which allows a proprietary language to be edited, compiled and sent to the Axcent controller. The name of this language is AXCESS.

title: AMX LLC


text:
User:Kazikameuk

Hello people.

title: User:Kazikameuk


text:
Talk:Catalysis

Untitled
I have now redirected the 3 links reported by WildBot today: Substrate, Free energy change and Membrane. Dirac66 (talk) 13:41, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Useless
Deleting this doesn't make this page any less useless.

Great field.

Bad page.

Keep up the good work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.201.215 (talk) 03:47, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Something other than chemistry?
Please the graphic showing the two competing curves at high and low Gibbs energy values for the non-catalyzed and catalyzed pathways is wrong and should be removed or changed from the figure. It is just too simplified, does not show the presence of several steps in the catalytic process. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

The term "catalysis" can mean things outside the discipline of chemistry. It can refer to any force that encourages change while remaining separate from the changed entities. For example, I wanted to GAY* you can go for the see also option, or add content to Catalyst (disambiguation) where other meanings are already present. Beware that you might get shot down by the wikidictionary people though.....(they are ruthless) V8rik 22:21, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I realize now I really want to disambiguate "Catalyst", not "Catalysis". Thanks for the link.  I couldn't find it before because I wasn't spelling it correctly.  (This from someone who can't spell "something" or "chemistry".  Ooops...)  But I'm a musician and an editor-wannabe.  I'm not a linguist.  I don't know that I'm really qualified to write the article from scratch -- irrespective of the wrath of Wikidictionarists.  Anybody else wanna give it a try?  If not, I might give it a shot and see who tromps on me.   Joe 02:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

removed this statement:

''A common misunderstanding is that catalysis "makes the reaction happen", and that the reaction would not otherwise proceed without the presence of the catalyst. In biologically- or industrially-useful timescales, this may be true in a limited sense; however, a catalyst cannot make a thermodynamically unfavorable reaction proceed. Rather, it can only speed up a reaction that is already thermodynamically favorable. Such a reaction in the absence of a catalyst would proceed, even without the catalyst, although perhaps too slowly to be observed or of use in a given context.''

it is commonly observed that reactions without a catalyst will not take place at all.

removed this statement:

''The mechanisms by which a catalyst speeds up a reaction are many, but they are all based on the reduction of the activation energy that is necessary to initiate the reaction. If you think of a reaction as a hill to be passed, the activation energy is the uphill part from the reactants' energy level to the energy level of the activated complex. The activated complex can then descend on either side of the reaction, either returning to the reactants or becoming products. In the hill example, catalysis functions as a tunnel, providing an easier way to the other side of the hill.''

confusing because catalyst does not lower activation energy but offers alternative pathway, tunnel analogy not clear

moved parts to homogeneous catalysis and heterogeneous catalysis

emptied out the see also section, better to have all the keywords in context rather than out of context, not all see also's are relevant

62.163.60.97 19:19, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Other uses
Catalysis is also the name of a regional marketing company based in Seattle, WA.

Catalysis is also a software engineering methodology probably made popular by this book:. I would love to see an article about this... perhaps comparing it to RUP (if the two can be compared?). If I become qualified to write it before anyone else decides to do so, I will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.220.73 (talk • contribs)
 * Dear 70.187.220.73, You are fully qualified to create an article (I would suggest: 'catalysis (programming language)'). Clicking the link will open the edit window, where you can start typing.  If you make an account, you will get some links regarding style, wiki-markup-language on your own talk-page.  Welcome!  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 20:03, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Dirk, Thanks for the advice. I've created an account, got "the book" on Catalysis, and plan on coming up to speed. --Ed

Alter rate/accelerate/inhibit
Dear reader/editor. When I entered Wikipedia this document contained a phrase 'the opposite of a catalyst is an inhibitor' (or something of the like), I did disagree with that, an inhibitor is a compound that slows down a catalyst, but that is not the opposite. Today someone changed the 'acceleration' into 'process of altering' .. again .. I do not agree .. Catalysts accelerate a reaction, I do not see how a catalyst can slow down a reaction (when compared to an uncatalysed reaction). The catalyst in that case would have to bind a substrate, but then all the other substrates would react with normal rate. Or the catalyst has to be stoichiometric, and hold the substrate, but then, it is not a catalyst, because it is altered, the moment it releases the substrate, the substrate would react .. please, comments. --Dirk Beetstra T C 20:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not understand the Generic Graph.
What is the 'Energy' axis? Heat? Potential Energy? Total Energy in system? According to the Graph you start somewhere then the energy rises for a while (substances are heated up from the outside?). Then at the same time, when you reach the 'activation energy' (=energy needed for reaction to take place) the line of the catalysed and the uncatalysed reaction start to drop (the chemical reaction starts?) and they reach the same low point at the same time (according to legend this means they have the same result). Having the same result at the same time this seems to mean the overall speed was the same.

Maybe there is a very simple explanation for this Graph but I fail to see it. If someone would explain and/or alter the legend I would appreciate it.

Pukkie 14:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * An explanation is given in the article about catalyst. I have added a merge tag to the latter.   A n d r e a s    (T) 14:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The merger is a good idea. To be honest I do not see the explanation. I think I do understand the text in the catalyst and catalysis articles but I still fail to understand the graph. Maybe the solution is scale: is this supposed to give a graph for indidual molecules or for, say, kilojoules and minutes? If someone would give a clear example with units I probably won't be too stubborn to admit it was my mistake and this graph, as it is, is informative enough for most people. Pukkie 19:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The "energy" in the graph is really the free energy. This is the thermodynamic energy of the system.  The graph shows that you need to go over an energy barrier to get from the reactants to the products.  The type of energy you add to get over this barrier can come in many forms, but heat is the most typical (light is not uncommon either).  The x-axis is more complicated.  Technically, this is the "reaction progress".  At one point in the reaction progress, you have a reactant.  At another point, you have the product.  At points in between you have something between the product and the reactant.  For a very simple reaction like 2 H· → H2, you can think of the distance between the two H atoms as the reaction progress.  For the reactants, they are very far apart.  At the products, the distance is the same as a H-H bond length.  In between the distance is somewhere in between.  Isthmus Labrat 00:38, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Your explanation makes sense to me, more than the generic graph anyway. I still have problems with a macro interpretation. Also: maybe the X-axis should be named: reaction progress. Pukkie 10:09, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. The Gibbs free energy is a thermodynamic term that pertains to the average of a class of molecules/particles. The schematic graph shows the energy of a reaction complex along the axcis of "reaction progress", depicted as a smooth function. This can only pertain to a single reaction complex. In contrast, the activation energy as such is a thermodynamic concept, because the peak in the graph corresponds to a particular (instable) quantum state, and the Gibbs free energy or reaction complexes in that state can be defined. This concept is admitted very poorly treated in conventional textbooks.   A n d r e a s    (T) 14:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

External links:
 * http://www.chemguide.co.uk/physical/basicrates/catalyst.html

Merge of Catalyst to here

 * Support. That article is a poor one and overlaps with this one. It can be improved by merging here. --Bduke 05:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support They are redundant sometimes and sometimes one has info that's missing in the other one. Anyway merging is just the first step, much improvement is also needed in these articlesKnights who say ni 08:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC).
 * Support These are tow articles about the same subject.   A n d r e a s    (T) 13:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Support the merge for now. Though I do think the two are somewhat different, the two articles overlap too much for the moment.  We might consider a split later when necessary.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 13:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * SupportI say that THIS article is a poor one and overlaps with the other.

Image
The image could be improved (as we did with the one in enzyme) so that it shows that reactants is the beginning and products is the end, and more importantly, that the varibale in X axis is not time, but reaction coordinate!!! Anyone with the ability/will to do it?? (I'd do it but i don't know anything about graphic programs) Knights who say ni 10:37, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with Knights who say ni, I don't really like the layout of the diagram either. I mostly don't like the way this reaction is going "up-hill" on the energy axis (i.e X --> Y). It sort of implies a catalyst can drive a reaction to an endothermic product as if by magic. Yes, you can make an argument that the reaction is just showing a reversible reaction and so the LHS vs RHS on the reaction coordinate axis doesn't mean much. However, it is still a tad misleading and doesn't need to be so. People can get confused about what a catalyst does, let's not fuel that fire. for example as mention above think the image on enzyme page (see below) is better laid-out overall.

 * [[Image:Activation_energy.svg|thumb]] [[Image:Activation2_updated.svg|thumb]]

 * Quantockgoblin (talk) 22:41, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

 * In addition to the x axis being the reaction coordinate there should be a dip in the reaction profile once a catalyst is added. This dip would indicate an intermediate involving the catalyst and substrate.  It would also indicate a process that involves at least two elementary steps.--OMCV (talk) 02:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Lead
Could someone add a mention of a simple example of catalysis that the layman can understand? i.e. "A common example used to demonstrate an catalyst is...yada yada yada" Pdelongchamp 16:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Error ?
This article names the chemist Alexander Mitscherlich: "Other early chemists involved in catalysis were Alexander Mitscherlich who in 1831 referred to contact processes" The problem is that he was born in 1836 so that does not add up. Can someone who understands this topic look into this? --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Berzelius
I think Jöns Jakob Berzelius was the first one to use the term "catalysis", but he's not mentioned here. I attach the link for Berzelius in the enciclopaedia britannica: --193.147.219.225 14:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

 * This article used to said that but someone vandalized it. I have fixed it. --Itub 15:45, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture
MySpace offers the option of a mood, "catalyzed," characterized by a smiley-face emoticon rotating clockwise, strongly implying that the user influenced by this mood had experienced chemical catalysis. Recommend a small marijuana leaf be affixed to the top right corner of the Popular Culture section I so hope you will include in this magnificent article. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.238.74.157 (talk) 01:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Regernerating catalysts
Is it worth mentioning that many catalysed reactions, particulally organic reactions involving H+ regernerate the catalyst with a different proton? For examle a keto enol tautomerism is acid catalysed - the reclaimed H+ is not the same as the H+ from the acid. This can be proved using a deuterated acid. Noosentaal (talk) 15:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

History of catalysis

 *
 *
 *
 *

some literature which will be implemented into the history section soon!--Stone (talk) 10:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

 * One more:

 * --Feministo (talk) 01:01, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Introductory phrase
I propose to alter the wording of this and await for objections/approval before I do it. Using double brackets=deletion, italics=insertion the following version is suggested:

In chemistry and biology, catalysis is ((the)) a way of accelerating((on)) the rate ((increase in rate)) of a chemical reaction by means of contacting the reactants with a substance called a catalyst, which ((is)) itself is not consumed by the overall reaction which often means the shifting the reaction equilibrium in one particular direction.. More generally, one may at times call anything that accelerates a process, a "catalyst" (From the Greek καταλύειν, meaning to annul or to untie or to pick up). LouisBB (talk) 20:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but the phrase which often means the shifting the reaction equilibrium in one particular direction. is not true. In fact a catalyst accelerates both forward and reverse reactions equally so that the position of equilibrium is unchanged, although the rate of approach to equilibrium is faster. Dirac66 (talk) 04:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Many thanks Dirac66 for putting me right on this one. Does this apply to all catalytic action regardless of phase, order etc.? I am very pleased really, at least I have not touched the article without consulting everybody. Much better, than arguing on the article page. Thanks again LouisBB (talk) 18:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

 * There is one further idea, namely adding a short phrase on inhibitors to go at the end of the paragraph, as these are often referred to as negativ catalysts.LouisBB (talk) 19:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The last sentence of the introduction already defines "inhibitor" and provides a link to an article with further details. The phrase "negative catalyst" could be explained also, although it was used more before catalytic mechanisms were understood. I would suggest adding (yes, at the end of the paragraph) a sentence such as "An old term for inhibitor is "negative catalyst", but this term is now best avoided since the mechanisms for catalysis and for inhibition are now known to be different." What do you think of this suggestion? Dirac66 (talk) 00:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I have missed that one. Your suggestion sounds fine to me, but what I would also suggest is to append the last paragraph to the end of the first one, as it seems to me that it is part of the definition.

 * I have modified the last paragraph from catalyst to catalytic reaction (to be pedantic) LouisBB (talk) 05:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

 * On looking at my last suggestion (about transferring the last paragraph to the end of the first one) and on re-reading it I have some more observations/suggestions for improvement: 1) I would turn round the sentence of that last paragraph, so that the thought is identically put to the definition of the catalys, by putting the defined terms at the end of the phrases, 2) I reckon that the definition of inhibitor is incorrect: it does not reduce the action of a catalyst, but it slows down the chemical reaction itself (without a catalyst) and finally 3) if I am right promoter is sometimes written as promotor (Are there no such article titles in WP yet?) LouisBB (talk) 05:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

My comments: 1.Re place of last paragraph: promoters and inhibitors are only present in SOME case of catalysis, so they are subsidiary concepts which should not be at the very beginning. The end of the introduction is soon enough.

2. Re inhibitor: First, an inhibitor has no effect without a catalyst, which shows that its effect is indeed on the catalyst. From a macroscopic viewpoint one could say that its effect is to slow down the catalysed reaction, since less product is formed per unit time. However modern chemists prefer the molecular viewpoint which is that the inhibitor reacts with and inactivates some of the catalyst. The catalyst molecules which are not inactivated still cause reaction at the same rate, but there are less of them. See also the link for inhibitor

3. Re promoter: Promoter is the usual spelling. I agree that there should be an article on Catalyst promoter, but no one has written one yet. There is one article on promoter, but it deals with DNA promoters in molecular biology, which are not the same thing. Dirac66 (talk) 01:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggested merge: Notable examples - Catalytic Processes
I think the two sections headed notable examples and catalytic processes should be merged, and if anything, the latter section removed completely. It you scroll down you get the impression that the authors gave up writing towards the end and decided to merely list things. What does everyone else think? --Cimex (talk) 12:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Notable examples is clearly better written, as related examples are placed together with some explanatory comments. I would suggest a "slow merge" by transferring one example at a time from catalytic processes to the appropriate place in notable examples and adding brief comments. For example, the inorganic reactions (Haber, HNO3, H2SO4) can be placed together. Dirac66 (talk) 16:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Are catalysts really not consumed?
The intro to this article states that catalysts are not consumed, reagents/reactants are. Yet catalyst is used much more often than those terms by people without a scientific background, usually to mean anything, including consumed things, which facilitate chemical reactions. Even scientific organizations use catalyst for something consumed see . This page needs to be updated to reflect that. ImpIn | (t - c) 00:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

In general the essential mechanism of a catalyzed reaction involves a catalytic cycle which does regenerate the catalyst. However in practice the catalyst is usually consumed ("lost") by secondary processes. For example in the stratospheric decomposition of ozone by Cl atoms, the catalytic cycle (see section Homogeneous catalysts) regenerates Cl atoms, but after about 105 cycles (on average), the Cl atoms are lost by the side reaction Cl + H --> HCl. For industrial processes, the physical dispersal of solid catalysts is also important.

In the article I think the intro should be left alone as it does describe the essential mechanism. A section on losses could be added near the end however. Dirac66 (talk) 02:53, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I think a short sentence stating this at the top is appropriate to reduce confusion, as this lead has confused people already ("if it gets consumed somewhere, it can't be a catalyst, and must be a reactant!". I've added that sentence (diff). If you want to BRD, we can do that. ImpIn | (t - c) 05:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I think the sentence you added to the intro is all right. Dirac66 (talk) 16:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Verb missing
To Smokefoot:

I think this sentence that you added today is missing a verb where I have put 3 dots, but I am not sure which verb you intended.

"In this way the particularly strong triple bond in nitrogen is weakened and the hydrogen and nitrogen atoms ... faster than would be the case in the gas phase, so the rate of reaction increases." Dirac66 (talk) 16:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Much improved article. Questions re precatalyst and loading.
The extensive revisions by Smokefoot last week have produced a much improved article, and have addressed most of the problems with the article. I have made a few further minor revisions today.

I also have two small questions at this time. 1. Sec. 2.4 "Precatalyst" Could someone provide a simple example of a "precatalyst" and associated catalytic mechanism to clarify the definition? I am not familiar with this term. Would an example be CFCl3 in the stratosphere, which photodecomposes to give Cl atoms which are the true catalyst for ozone decomposition? If not, why not and what is a better example?

2. Sec. 3.2.1 "Catalyst loading" What is the definition of this term? Is it the amount of catalyst necessary per amount of reactant, or the amount of reactant per amount of catalyst, or something else? Dirac66 (talk) 02:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Regarding precatalysts: I think a common example is organometallic (pre-)catalysts that have to get rid of a ligand before entering the catalytic cycle proper. See for example Wilkinson's catalyst, which loses a triphenylphosphine, or Crabtree's catalyst, which loses the cyclooctadiene. --Itub (talk) 11:07, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Catalyst loading refers to the amount of catalyst used. Usually quoted as mol %; the smaller the better (all things equal). A hypothetical reaction with 1 mol of starting material might use 0.001 mol of catalyst, equivalent to 0.1 mol % catalyst loading. In this case, less (catalyst) for the same % transformation is better. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 11:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Another precatalyst in the heterogeneous world would be the material used for hydrodesulfurization: the precatalyst is a mixture of the oxides of cobalt and molybdenum but the real catalyst, generate in situ, is the cobalt-molybdenum sulfide. It may not be an exaggeration to say that most so-called "catalysts" are really precatalysts, for the reason that many catalysts are pretty lively (super-Lewis acidic, catch on fire, that sort of thing) and precatalysts are easily weighed and stored. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to all 3 of you for these answers. I have now inserted Wilkinson's (pre)catalyst as an example and briefly defined loading. Of the 3 precatalysts suggested, I chose Wilkinson's because its article shows the mechanism very clearly. Dirac66 (talk) 20:07, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Lead image?
Why on earth is the first image that of a coin and some random piece of metal? It is not appropriate for the beginning of the article, and should perhaps be placed later on. A good opening image should actually illustrate the subject at hand. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 17:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

As stated in the image caption, the "random piece of metal" is a catalyst for an automobile catalytic converter, one of the most widespread uses of catalysts today. The structure is of interest because it is designed to maximize the surface area, which is important for catalysis. As for the coin, it is included in order to show the size of the automobile catalyst. Dirac66 (talk) 22:42, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for including a certain distinction on catalysts
I suggest to include in the article a reference to a distinction between "direct catalysts", and "indirect catalysts".

For example, water molecules might not intervene directly in a certain chemical reaction; but water might be the supporting domain where the reaction can take place. In this case, water is an "indirect catalyst".

In this sense, for example, human skeleton could be thought as an "indirect catalyst" for chemical reactions occurred in the brain. --Faustnh (talk) 12:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Do you have sources (textbooks or scientific articles) which refer to supporting media as "indirect catalysts"? If not, then this idea must be classified as "original research" which does not belong in Wikipedia - see WP:OR. Dirac66 (talk) 13:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for sentences in introduction
Being a stranger here & rushed, a brief couple of notes.

"Catalysts that speed the reaction are called positive catalysts. Substances that slow a catalyst's effect in a chemical reaction are called inhibitors. Substances that increase the activity of catalysts are called promoters, and substances that deactivate catalysts are called catalytic poisons."

Is there a negative catalyst? Unless that's another sense of inhibitor, here limited to its effects on catalysts (not on the reaction).

Rewrite last three clauses into three sentences or one; fix order so promoter doesn't separate inhibitor and poison;  also fix italics. Good luck! ABS (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I have tried to follow these suggestions - thank you. I also removed the reference to positive catalyst. The article section Inhibitors, poisons and promoters contains much more detail, and notes (with a source) that negative catalyst is an occasionnal synonym for inhibitor, but this does not need to be in the article intro. Dirac66 (talk) 02:17, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

"Complexogeneous Catalysis"
I vote that we remove any reference to so-called 'complexometric catalysis' in this article. It is not a concept which is widely recognised within the catalysis community, its description is poorly written and makes no sense, and there doesn't seem to be any reliable references for it. Throw it away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ColloidsMan5000 (talk • contribs) 00:51, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree and removed this material, hopefully others will let my removal stand. Thanks for your comments.  --Smokefoot (talk) 12:39, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

This is  a new catalysis which can transfer biomass into standard fuel directly, since it can remove and transfer oxygen and hydrogen. You do not know that does not means it does not exist. Why you can remove my paper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.173.197.74 (talk) 02:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Someone remove my talk also. Why? If you think you are correct, please show up. Please do not underground to do something. I hope someone should have basic knowledge about catalysis, then can take part in talking. Liks Mr.ColloidsMan5000, can you told public people, if you have catalysis background or not? I will send message to public people to complain your behavior in this web. Even if you remove my message again, I will send complain on other web side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charleswang2601 (talk • contribs) 19:54, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

This web should let technical people to charge the message and give some contact information which can make a good communication. For example, if a catalysis expert to charge this area and have contact information. I can talk to him first to explain "complexogeneous" and show him newspaper, science article,production line video then put message on web. Otherwise, some children, like Mr.ColloidsMan5000, will say they do not know and they do not recognise. science will develop and go along. We can not only live in homogeneous/heterogeneous catalysis, which is invented by 50 years ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charleswang2601 (talk • contribs) 20:06, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I will put complexogeneous catalysis again on this web and give my real name and contact information there. I like to talk any catalytic experts if they have some question. Please do not remove my message again. Wikki web is to transfer good/correct message to public people.Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charleswang2601 (talk • contribs) 20:14, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I have written a email to Viki web office to complain the person who make trouble on me. I want ViKi office to cancel this person's editor right. If you are "catalysis" person, please just show up to let's talk about catalysis. Underground to do something, is not like a gentleman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.131.120.2 (talk) 19:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Catalytic antibodies
Mentioned catalytic antibodies ("abzymes") in the section on emzymes and biocatalysts. Goblinshark17 (talk) 07:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

filter image
Would it be better if the image "Low Temperature Oxidation Catalyst.jpeg" be better displayed at a higher resolution and cropped? When I first saw it I thought it was vandalism because it looks like a sphere being held by a women. The hands take up too much of the picture. It was only when I clicked on the image that I could see the grid pattern. DGerman (talk) 19:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

recycled?
Can someone improve the sentence which states "Because catalysts are not consumed, they are recycled. "

The wikipedia article on recycling states: "Recycling is a process to convert waste materials i"

Perhaps something like "reusable"? DGerman (talk) 19:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I have written a longer phrase which is clearer although perhaps more awkward. I think that technically recycled is accurate as the molecule does enter a new catalytic cycle, but unfortunately recycled will for many readers suggest waste disposal as you have said, so it is better to reword the article. Dirac66 (talk) 02:09, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Catalysis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080405195443/http://www.chem.umn.edu/services/lecturedemo/info/genie.htm to http://www.chem.umn.edu/services/lecturedemo/info/genie.htm
 * Added tag to http://www.documentroot.com/2010/03/catalytic-antibodies-simply-explained.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080517071700/http://www.climatetechnology.gov/library/2005/tech-options/tor2005-143.pdf to http://www.climatetechnology.gov/library/2005/tech-options/tor2005-143.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:11, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

The guidelines WP:TERTIARY and WP:SECONDARY
Catalysis is a very, very big area. Citations to this topic should follow WP:TERTIARY (well recognized textbooks and monographs) or at least WP:SECONDARY (reviews). Data: 443940 references (journal articles, reviews, patents, etc), of which 181000 have appeared since 2009. That number translates to many papers per day. Hence the guidelines WP:TERTIARY and WP:SECONDARY. Hence the avoidance of individual specialized reports. Its impossible.--Smokefoot (talk) 11:07, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 24 June 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a clear consensus that catalysis, not catalyst, best describes the topic of this article. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 11:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Catalysis → Catalyst – Catalyst was merged into Catalysis in 2006; the merge was warranted, however it should have gone to the article Catalyst instead of Catalysis. Catalyst is by far the more notable topic between the two:   https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=catalyst%2Ccatalysis&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ccatalyst%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Ccatalysis%3B%2Cc0. Furthermore, any discussion of catalysts must necessarily also include discussion catalysis, but the reverse is not necessarily true, and catalysts are at least as notable as catalysis in their own right, and likely more so. Firejuggler86 (talk) 15:11, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Interesting suggestion, but my experience is that the topic of catalysis is far more general and more useful than catalyst. What can one say about "catalyst"?  No generic catalyst exists.  Zillions of individual catalysts are known but their only unifying aspect is that they catalyze reactions.  No common structural or electronic principles describe them.  Here is another way to think about this issue: no university course or a symposium would be entitled "Catalyst".  No.  But "Catalysis" or "Principles of Catalysis" or Heterogeneous Catalysis" are titles of classes throughout the world.  And similar titles describe international symposia.--Smokefoot (talk) 16:33, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Catalysis is a more general topic, and our article has sections which would not be well described by Catalyst. For example Mechanism refers to the reaction, not the substance. And Inhibitors, Poisons and Promoters are not Catalysts but rather other substances which modify the Catalysis mechanism. Dirac66 (talk) 18:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I can see how this article might seem like it should be moved to catalyst. After all, the term catalyst appears 122 times in article as compared to the 49 times of catalysis. However, the article in question is specifically structured around the idea of catalysis, not catalysts in general. Catalysts are just individual substances. There are plenty of opportunities to expand upon other chemical articles about their use as catalysts without bogging down this article. Sir Trenzalore (talk) 21:50, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose per the above. I agree an interesting idea, but the term 'catalysis' is a much more appropriate title for the content of the article. Mdewman6 (talk) 23:28, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * oppose they are two separate things this article covers the process as a wholecatalysisnot more narrowly the catalyst substances—blindlynx (talk) 01:41, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Oppose I agree with others reasonings. This is fine as it currently is. -- Tautomers (T C) 01:59, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Catalytic reaction mechanisms
The first two paragraphs off this section are repetitious. 2603:6011:2903:C25A:7409:E4E2:21D1:3EEC (talk) 14:12, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Catalysis


text:
Jack Mackenzie

Chalmers Jack Mackenzie, (July 10, 1888 – February 26, 1984) was a Canadian civil engineer, chancellor of Carleton University, president of the National Research Council, first president of Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, first president of Atomic Energy Control Board and instrumental in the development of science and engineering education in Canada.

He was born in St. Stephen, New Brunswick, the youngest of six children of James and Janet MacKenzie. He attended Milltown High School, then completed a Bachelor of Engineering at Dalhousie University in 1909 and a Masters in Engineering from Harvard University in 1915.

In 1912 he was hired to develop an engineering program at the University of Saskatchewan. He served in the Canadian Army during World War I (1915-1918). After the war he continued at the University of Saskatchewan until 1932, when he took a leave of absence to supervise public works projects. In 1939 he left Saskatchewan for Ottawa to become president of the National Research Council. In 1943 he received the Sir John Kennedy Medal.

In 1949 he sat on the Royal Commission on National Development in the Arts, Letters and Sciences, the so-called "Massey Commission", one objective of which was developing Canada's system of publicly funded research.

In 1967, he was made a Companion of the Order of Canada. He received honorary degrees from the University of Saskatchewan, the University of British Columbia, the University of Western Ontario, the University of Ottawa, McMaster University, Queen's University, and the University of New Brunswick.

The Mackenzie Engineering Building at Carleton University is named in his honour. The high school in Deep River, Ontario, Mackenzie Community School (formerly C.J. Mackenzie High School ), is named in his honour.

title: Jack Mackenzie


text:
User:Mwalcoff

Hello. I have been a Wikipedia user since 2004. When I created my account, Wikipedia was still quite new, and I thought that someday I might want to put my contributions on my resume! (Little did I know the project would wind up being the butt of jokes on Conan O'Brien's show.) So I used my real name, or part of it, as my username. I can't tell you much more about myself for professional reasons. I have disclosed that I am American and Jewish. I am old enough to have had fallout shelter signs in my elementary school and remember when video-rental stores had VHS and Beta sections.

Because of my lack of time and low attention span, I do little editing of articles nowadays, preferring to spend most of my Wikipedia time on the Reference Desks. I was formerly a Google Answers researcher, actually receiving money to answer people's questions. Google Answers is no more (thank you, Wikipedia), but I still enjoy helping to find information for people. My best subjects are politics, geography and history. Feel free to ask questions on my talk page if you don't want to use the Reference Desks.

title: User:Mwalcoff