text:
Talk:Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation

Bias in the write up of PD Notebook beef import coverage
Currently, the section Munhwa_Broadcasting_Corporation contains languages that suggest PD Notebook's coverage "incit[ed] three months of massive protests in Seoul." It also seems to cite only source materials that cast negative light on the program, and no attempts are made to present information in defense of the PD Notebook's producers nor the legal documents released by the prosecution and the court. The section also contains too much over-emotional words such as "provocative," "incite," "massive," "outraged."--Supergloom (talk) 04:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I completely understand what you mean, and it might look that way if you aren't familiar with the issue, but ...

PD Notebook is indeed a highly sensationalist and "provocative" program. This doesn't mean that they don't sometimes get things right, as they did with the disgraced scientist Hwang Woo-suk. PD Notebook is, however, more akin to a Korean version of Geraldo Rivera than 60 Minutes, and like Rivera, it pursues shock value and melodrama over measured reporting (one of its recent broadcasts was called "Searching out the New Japanese traitors"). You can watch some footage yourself online, and even if you don't understand Korean, you will surely be able to pick up on the sensationalist horror movie music and editing.

No legal documents have been released by the court because MBC has refused to comply with any summons and there is no effective sub poena system here. The prosecution has disclosed private emails from one of the producers which it claims implies malicious intent, I'll try to put up a citation later, but nothing else has been released.

The protests were indisputably "massive," with maybe a hundred thousand or more protesters, you can check the photographs here to guess at the size. I think they qualify as "massive."

As far as "incite" goes, it says that "PD notebook were accused of inciting," not "PD Notebook incited." Since this is a claim already made by the prosecution and many others, I think it is not in se disputable. Whether or not they "incited" is the disputed issue, and why the prosecution is involved.

The translator was indeed "outraged," and went to the press claiming that PD Notebook was shifting the blame for the show's problems onto her.

As far as only casting negative light on the program, it is fairly difficult to speak in defense of the program's claims, i.e. that American beef will cause mad cow disease, simply because there are no patients confirmed to have contracted or died from mad cow disease as a result of eating American beef. Since there isn't any strong evidence for this claim, it is more akin to pseudoscience than science, and simply isn't defensible. Likewise, for the spurious claim that Koreans have a unique genetic heritage that makes them specially vulnerable to mad cow disease, the false claim that Americans do not eat beef over 30 months old, and the many mistranslations which were far more inflammatory than anything in this article. There is little to be said in defense of PD Notebook here because nearly every claim presented has been refuted as unscientific or untrue. The Washington Post has described the program as "thinly sourced," and its claims as "scientifically refuted," and I consider the Washington Post to be a fairly respectable organization that checks its facts.

What can be defended, however, is PD Notebook's right to free speech, and whether it is justifiable for the government to prosecute journalists ever, even if they propagate demonstrably false information. The article tries to address that a little by mentioning the free speech issue, but you are correct in that it should be given more weight. News sources might be somewhat reluctant to rush to the defense of a known liar.

Thanks for your comments. Jayzames (talk) 05:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

 * A bulk of the sources criticizing PD Notebook comes from the big three conservative newspapers. How about a more diverse range of sources? мirаgeinred سَراب ٭  (talk) 18:18, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Words to avoid recommends that editors stay away from words such as incite, maintain, cite, claim, deny, supposed, and alleged. I don't know who wrote the section regarding PD Notebook, but these are the words that have appeared in the section frequently. The bias that these words paint is clear. мirаgeinred سَراب ٭  (talk) 06:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

What happened to that section? It may have slanted... but it shouldn't have been deleted completely. I wonder if the new "controversies" section will disappear also? 175.195.33.114 (talk) 11:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC) Whoops. Forgot to login. Darkpoet (talk) 11:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View issue with broadcasting articles.
Hi,

I've noticed that the Broadcasting Station articles (like MBC in this case) has many controversial events written, which is mostly un-neutral (written in a way that goes against the broadcasting station itself in most cases). Also, some of the details (like 19+ Profanity issues, Kim Jonghyun getting a "gift", etc.) should be omitted altogether as it does not belong on an Encyclopedia. Please explain why these "Controversies" are needed in the article.

Thanks.

Tibbydibby (talk) 01:36, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Agree that the controversy section of this article is not well-written, in more ways that you mention. However, misbehavior by a major broadcasting agency, one of the major sources of news for an entire country, is definitely notable and to omit it would effectively be censorship.

 * The first section about the anti-foreigner segment is actually quite POV in favor of the station; as it's written, it implies that the broadcast made valid statements. I saw that broadcast when it aired, and it was pure tabloid xenophobic racism.  It alleged a lot of things; it said nothing factual at all.  So that section should probably stay but needs to be rewritten to be less POV in favor of the station.  I'm pretty sure there are secondary sources on this issue.

 * Propagation of racial hatred and stereotypes is also notable, I think, though it's so pervasive in all aspects of Korean life that this is hardly a drop in the bucket. Still, these things are starting to get noticed in Korea by Koreans and make it into the news sometimes.  There may be sources other than the broadcast itself for this.

 * "Stealing" fangifts and such is not really a controversy, and I agree that some of these things get added because a fan is mad that their favorite group didn't win on a music show or whatever. Like with all articles, editors must evaluate each entry on a per-item basis.

 * However, the biggest problem by far with this is the complete omission of major, widely-reported protests against MBC in Korea. That was way more notable than all of this other stuff.  So overall, the fact that some of these controversies shouldn't be here does not mean controversies themselves should not be listed.  Criticism of the major media in Korea is a huge issue there and is central to larger ideas of freedom in the country.  Koreans talk about this stuff on a daily basis; not about Shinee fangift theft but about censorship, bias, stereotyping, government interference, and all-around unreliability of their own media, including (especially!) MBC, SBS, and KBS.  So the section is very vital, IMO.  However I absolutely see and appreciate your concern of the section's current state.  Shinyang-i (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 02:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I think to start, you can add the notable controversies but it make sure it relates to MBC itself (like SBS controversies go to SBS and KBS controversies go to KBS) before you add. But we need more editors to contribute to discussion. Tibbydibby (talk) 22:55, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I also forgot to mention - Check the date and add it accordingly. I prefer the controversies to be organized by date of occurrence.Tibbydibby (talk) 22:56, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:36, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * MBC Sangam Center.jpg

Requested move 22 February 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Silikonz 💬  22:03, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation → MBC (South Korea) – Unlike SBS or KBS which are at least sometimes (though infrequently) referred to by their full names, MBC is pretty much never referred to as "Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation" in secondary sources Freedom4U (talk) 21:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 20:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Oppose Personally, I'm not entirely sure that only the fact of short usage would be enough to justify the change, but at the same time it makes sense per norm. However, I'm opposing for the sake of Korean terrestrial broadcasters naming aesthetics. If we could just change it to MBC, I wouldn't object, as it would be as relevant to the page as the BBC article is. MBC (South Korea) should exist only as redirecting to make it easier for English Wikipedia readers find the page. Bominsky (talk) Bominsky (talk) 23:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Your reasoning makes sense, I'll retract my request. Damn all these media companies with the same names. Freedom4U (talk) 21:27, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Munhwa Broadcasting Corporation


text:
Secretary problem

The secretary problem demonstrates a scenario involving optimal stopping theory that is studied extensively in the fields of applied probability, statistics, and decision theory. It is also known as the marriage problem, the sultan's dowry problem, the fussy suitor problem, the googol game, and the best choice problem. Its solution is also known as the 37% rule.

The basic form of the problem is the following: imagine an administrator who wants to hire the best secretary out of $$n$$ rankable applicants for a position. The applicants are interviewed one by one in random order. A decision about each particular applicant is to be made immediately after the interview. Once rejected, an applicant cannot be recalled. During the interview, the administrator gains information sufficient to rank the applicant among all applicants interviewed so far, but is unaware of the quality of yet unseen applicants. The question is about the optimal strategy (stopping rule) to maximize the probability of selecting the best applicant. If the decision can be deferred to the end, this can be solved by the simple maximum selection algorithm of tracking the running maximum (and who achieved it), and selecting the overall maximum at the end. The difficulty is that the decision must be made immediately.

The shortest rigorous proof known so far is provided by the odds algorithm. It implies that the optimal win probability is always at least $$1/e$$ (where e is the base of the natural logarithm), and that the latter holds even in a much greater generality. The optimal stopping rule prescribes always rejecting the first $$ \sim n/e$$ applicants that are interviewed and then stopping at the first applicant who is better than every applicant interviewed so far (or continuing to the last applicant if this never occurs). Sometimes this strategy is called the $$1/e$$ stopping rule, because the probability of stopping at the best applicant with this strategy is already about $$1/e$$ for moderate values of $$n$$. One reason why the secretary problem has received so much attention is that the optimal policy for the problem (the stopping rule) is simple and selects the single best candidate about 37% of the time, irrespective of whether there are 100 or 100 million applicants.

Formulation
Although there are many variations, the basic problem can be stated as follows:

 * There is a single position to fill.
 * There are n applicants for the position, and the value of n is known.
 * The applicants, if all seen together, can be ranked from best to worst unambiguously.
 * The applicants are interviewed sequentially in random order, with each order being equally likely.
 * Immediately after an interview, the interviewed applicant is either accepted or rejected, and the decision is irrevocable.
 * The decision to accept or reject an applicant can be based only on the relative ranks of the applicants interviewed so far.
 * The objective of the general solution is to have the highest probability of selecting the best applicant of the whole group. This is the same as maximizing the expected payoff, with payoff defined to be one for the best applicant and zero otherwise.

A candidate is defined as an applicant who, when interviewed, is better than all the applicants interviewed previously. Skip is used to mean "reject immediately after the interview". Since the objective in the problem is to select the single best applicant, only candidates will be considered for acceptance. The "candidate" in this context corresponds to the concept of record in permutation.

Deriving the optimal policy
The optimal policy for the problem is a stopping rule. Under it, the interviewer rejects the first r − 1 applicants (let applicant M be the best applicant among these r − 1 applicants), and then selects the first subsequent applicant that is better than applicant M. It can be shown that the optimal strategy lies in this class of strategies. (Note that we should never choose an applicant who is not the best we have seen so far, since they cannot be the best overall applicant.) For an arbitrary cutoff r, the probability that the best applicant is selected is

\begin{align} P(r) &= \sum_{i=1}^{n} P\left(\text{applicant } i \text{ is selected} \cap \text{applicant } i \text{ is the best}\right) \\ &= \sum_{i=1}^{n} P\left(\text{applicant } i \text{ is selected} | \text{applicant } i \text{ is the best}\right) \cdot P\left(\text{applicant } i \text{ is the best}\right) \\ &= \left[ \sum_{i=1}^{r-1} 0 + \sum_{i=r}^{n} P\left( \left. \begin{array}{l} \text{the best of the first } i - 1 \text{ applicants} \\ \text{is in the first } r-1 \text{ applicants} \end{array} \right| \text{applicant } i \text{ is the best} \right) \right] \cdot \frac{1}{n} \\ &= \left[\sum_{i=r}^{n} \frac{r-1}{i-1}\right] \cdot \frac{1}{n} \\ &=\frac{r-1}{n} \sum_{i=r}^{n} \frac{1}{i-1}. \end{align} $$

The sum is not defined for r = 1, but in this case the only feasible policy is to select the first applicant, and hence P(1) = 1/n. This sum is obtained by noting that if applicant i is the best applicant, then it is selected if and only if the best applicant among the first i − 1 applicants is among the first r − 1 applicants that were rejected. Letting n tend to infinity, writing $$x$$ as the limit of (r−1)/n, using t for (i−1)/n and dt for 1/n, the sum can be approximated by the integral

P(x)=x \int_{x}^{1}\frac{1}{t}\,dt = -x \ln(x)\;. $$

Taking the derivative of P(x) with respect to $$x$$, setting it to 0, and solving for x, we find that the optimal x is equal to 1/e. Thus, the optimal cutoff tends to n/e as n increases, and the best applicant is selected with probability 1/e.

For small values of n, the optimal r can also be obtained by standard dynamic programming methods. The optimal thresholds r and probability of selecting the best alternative P for several values of n are shown in the following table.

The probability of selecting the best applicant in the classical secretary problem converges toward $$1/e\approx 0.368$$.

Alternative solution
This problem and several modifications can be solved (including the proof of optimality) in a straightforward manner by the odds algorithm, which also has other applications. Modifications for the secretary problem that can be solved by this algorithm include random availabilities of applicants, more general hypotheses for applicants to be of interest to the decision maker, group interviews for applicants, as well as certain models for a random number of applicants.

Limitations
The solution of the secretary problem is only meaningful if it is justified to assume that the applicants have no knowledge of the decision strategy employed, because early applicants have no chance at all and may not show up otherwise.

One important drawback for applications of the solution of the classical secretary problem is that the number of applicants $$ n $$ must be known in advance, which is rarely the case. One way to overcome this problem is to suppose that the number of applicants is a random variable $$N $$ with a known distribution of $$P(N=k)_{k=1,2,\cdots} $$ (Presman and Sonin, 1972). For this model, the optimal solution is in general much harder, however. Moreover, the optimal success probability is now no longer around 1/e but typically lower. This can be understood in the context of having a "price" to pay for not knowing the number of applicants. However, in this model the price is high. Depending on the choice of the distribution of $$N$$, the optimal win probability can approach zero. Looking for ways to cope with this new problem led to a new model yielding the so-called 1/e-law of best choice.

1/e-law of best choice
The essence of the model is based on the idea that life is sequential and that real-world problems pose themselves in real time. Also, it is easier to estimate times in which specific events (arrivals of applicants) should occur more frequently (if they do) than to estimate the distribution of the number of specific events which will occur. This idea led to the following approach, the so-called unified approach (1984):

The model is defined as follows: An applicant must be selected on some time interval $$[0,T]$$ from an unknown number $$ N$$ of rankable applicants. The goal is to maximize the probability of selecting only the best under the hypothesis that all arrival orders of different ranks are equally likely. Suppose that all applicants have the same, but independent to each other, arrival time density $$f$$ on $$[0,T]$$ and let $$F$$ denote the corresponding arrival time distribution function, that is

 * $$F(t) = \int_{0}^{t} f(s)ds $$, $$\, 0\le t\le T$$.

Let $$\tau$$ be such that $$ F(\tau)=1/e.$$ Consider the strategy to wait and observe all applicants up to time $$\tau $$ and then to select, if possible, the first candidate after time $$\tau $$ which is better than all preceding ones. Then this strategy, called 1/e-strategy, has the following properties:

The 1/e-strategy

 * (i) yields for all $$N$$ a success probability of at least 1/e,

 * (ii) is a minimax-optimal strategy for the selector who does not know $$N$$,

 * (iii) selects, if there is at least one applicant, none at all with probability exactly 1/e.

The 1/e-law, proved in 1984 by F. Thomas Bruss, came as a surprise. The reason was that a value of about 1/e had been considered before as being out of reach in a model for unknown $$ N $$, whereas this value 1/e was now achieved as a lower bound for the success probability, and this in a model with arguably much weaker hypotheses (see e.g. Math. Reviews 85:m).

However, there are many other strategies that achieve (i) and (ii) and, moreover, perform strictly better than the 1/e-strategy simultaneously for all $$N$$>2. A simple example is the strategy which selects (if possible) the first relatively best candidate after time $$\tau $$ provided that at least one applicant arrived before this time, and otherwise selects (if possible) the second relatively best candidate after time $$\tau $$. The 1/e-law is sometimes confused with the solution for the classical secretary problem described above because of the similar role of the number 1/e. However, in the 1/e-law, this role is more general. The result is also stronger, since it holds for an unknown number of applicants and since the model based on an arrival time distribution F is more tractable for applications.

The game of googol
In the article "Who solved the Secretary problem?" (Ferguson, 1989), it's claimed the secretary problem first appeared in print in Martin Gardner's February 1960 Mathematical Games column in Scientific American:"Ask someone to take as many slips of paper as he pleases, and on each slip write a different positive number. The numbers may range from small fractions of 1 to a number the size of a googol (1 followed by a hundred zeroes) or even larger. These slips are turned face down and shuffled over the top of a table. One at a time you turn the slips face up. The aim is to stop turning when you come to the number that you guess to be the largest of the series. You cannot go back and pick a previously turned slip. If you turn over all the slips, then of course you must pick the last one turned."Ferguson pointed out that the secretary game remained unsolved, as a zero-sum game with two antagonistic players. In this game:

 * Alice, the informed player, writes secretly distinct numbers on $$n$$ cards.
 * Bob, the stopping player, observes the actual values and can stop turning cards whenever he wants, winning if the last card turned has the overall maximal number.
 * Bob wants to guess the maximal number with the highest possible probability, while Alice's goal is to keep this probability as low as possible.

The difference with the basic secretary problem are two:

 * Alice does not have to write numbers uniformly at random. She may write them according to any joint probability distribution to trick Bob.
 * Bob observes the actual values written on the cards, which he can use in his decision procedures.

Strategic analysis
Alice first writes down n numbers, which are then shuffled. So, their ordering does not matter, meaning that Alice's numbers must be an exchangeable random variable sequence $$X_1, X_2, ..., X_n$$. Alice's strategy is then just picking the trickiest exchangeable random variable sequence.

Bob's strategy is formalizable as a stopping rule $$\tau$$ for the sequence $$X_1, X_2, ..., X_n$$.

We say that a stopping rule $$\tau$$ for Bob is a relative rank stopping strategy iff it depends on only the relative ranks of $$X_1, X_2, ..., X_n$$, and not on their numerical values. In other words, it is as if someone secretly intervened after Alice picked her numbers, and changed each number in $$X_1, X_2, ..., X_n$$ into its relative rank (breaking ties randomly). For example, $$0.2, 0.3, 0.3, 0.1$$ is changed to $$2, 3, 4, 1$$ or $$2, 4, 3, 1$$ with equal probability. This makes it as if Alice played an exchangeable random permutation on $$\{1, 2, ..., n\}$$. Now, since the only exchangeable random permutation on $$\{1, 2, ..., n\}$$ is just the uniform distribution over all permutations on $$\{1, 2, ..., n\}$$, the optimal relative rank stopping strategy is the optimal stopping rule for the secretary problem, given above, with a winning probability$$Pr(X_\tau = \max_{i\in 1:n} X_i) = \max_{r\in 1:n}\frac{r-1}{n} \sum_{i=r}^{n} \frac{1}{i-1}$$Alice's goal then is to make sure Bob cannot do better than the relative-rank stopping strategy.

By the rules of the game, Alice's sequence must be exchangeable, but to do well in the game, Alice should not pick it to be independent. If Alice samples the numbers independently from some fixed distribution, it would allow Bob to do better. To see this intuitively, imagine if $$n=2$$, and Alice is to pick both numbers from the normal distribution $$N(0, 1)$$, independently. Then if Bob turns over one number and sees $$-3$$, then he can quite confidently turn over the second number, and if Bob turns over one number and sees $$+3$$, then he can quite confidently pick the first number. Alice can do better by picking $$X_1, X_2$$ that are positively correlated.

So the fully formal statement is as below:"Does there exist an exchangeable sequence of random variables $X_1, ..., X_n$, such that for any stopping rule $\tau$, $Pr(X_\tau = \max_{i\in 1:n} X_i) \leq \max_{r\in 1:n}\frac{r-1}{n} \sum_{i=r}^{n} \frac{1}{i-1}$?"

Solution
For $$n=2$$, if Bob plays the optimal relative-rank stoppings strategy, then Bob has winning probability 1/2. Surprisingly, Alice has no minimax strategy, which is closely related to a paradox of T. Cover and the two envelopes paradox. Concretely, Bob can play this strategy: sample a random number $$Y$$. If $$X_1 > Y$$, then pick $$X_1$$, else pick $$X_2$$. Now, Bob can win with probability strictly greater than 1/2. Suppose Alice's numbers are different, then conditional on $$Y \not\in [\min(X_1, X_2), \max(X_1, X_2)]$$, Bob wins with probability 1/2, but conditional on $$Y \in [\min(X_1, X_2), \max(X_1, X_2)]$$, Bob wins with probability 1.

Note that the random number $$Y$$ can be sampled from any random distribution, as long as $$Y \in [\min(X_1, X_2), \max(X_1, X_2)]$$ has nonzero probability.

However, for any $$\epsilon > 0$$, Alice can construct an exchangeable sequence $$X_1, X_2$$ such that Bob's winning probability is at most $$1/2 + \epsilon$$.

But for $$n>2$$, the answer is yes: Alice can choose random numbers (which are dependent random variables) in such a way that Bob cannot play better than using the classical stopping strategy based on the relative ranks.

Heuristic performance
The remainder of the article deals again with the secretary problem for a known number of applicants.

derived the expected success probabilities for several psychologically plausible heuristics that might be employed in the secretary problem. The heuristics they examined were:
 * The cutoff rule (CR): Do not accept any of the first y applicants; thereafter, select the first encountered candidate (i.e., an applicant with relative rank 1). This rule has as a special case the optimal policy for the classical secretary problem for which y = r.
 * Candidate count rule (CCR): Select the y-th encountered candidate. Note, that this rule does not necessarily skip any applicants; it only considers how many candidates have been observed, not how deep the decision maker is in the applicant sequence.
 * Successive non-candidate rule (SNCR): Select the first encountered candidate after observing y non-candidates (i.e., applicants with relative rank > 1).

Each heuristic has a single parameter y. The figure (shown on right) displays the expected success probabilities for each heuristic as a function of y for problems with n = 80.

Cardinal payoff variant
Finding the single best applicant might seem like a rather strict objective. One can imagine that the interviewer would rather hire a higher-valued applicant than a lower-valued one, and not only be concerned with getting the best. That is, the interviewer will derive some value from selecting an applicant that is not necessarily the best, and the derived value increases with the value of the one selected.

To model this problem, suppose that the $$n$$ applicants have "true" values that are random variables X drawn i.i.d. from a uniform distribution on [0, 1]. Similar to the classical problem described above, the interviewer only observes whether each applicant is the best so far (a candidate), must accept or reject each on the spot, and must accept the last one if he/she is reached. (To be clear, the interviewer does not learn the actual relative rank of each applicant. He/she learns only whether the applicant has relative rank 1.) However, in this version the payoff is given by the true value of the selected applicant. For example, if he/she selects an applicant whose true value is 0.8, then he/she will earn 0.8. The interviewer's objective is to maximize the expected value of the selected applicant.

Since the applicant's values are i.i.d. draws from a uniform distribution on [0, 1], the expected value of the tth applicant given that $$x_{t}=\max\left\{x_1, x_2, \ldots, x_t\right\}$$ is given by

E_{t}=E\left(X_{t}|I_{t}=1\right)=\frac{t}{t+1}. $$

As in the classical problem, the optimal policy is given by a threshold, which for this problem we will denote by $$c$$, at which the interviewer should begin accepting candidates. Bearden showed that c is either $$\lfloor \sqrt n \rfloor$$ or $$\lceil \sqrt n \rceil$$. (In fact, whichever is closest to $$ \sqrt n $$.) This follows from the fact that given a problem with $$n$$ applicants, the expected payoff for some arbitrary threshold $$1 \le c \le n$$ is

V_{n}(c)=\sum_{t=c}^{n-1}\left[\prod_{s=c}^{t-1}\left(\frac{s-1}{s}\right)\right]\left(\frac{1}{t+1}\right) +\left[\prod_{s=c}^{n-1}\left(\frac{s-1}{s}\right)\right]\frac{1}{2}={\frac {2cn-{c}^{2}+c-n}{2cn}}. $$

Differentiating $$ V_{n}(c)$$ with respect to c, one gets

 * $$\frac{\partial V}{\partial c} = \frac{ -{c}^{\,2}+n }{ 2{c}^{\,2}n }.$$

Since $$\partial^{\,2}V / \partial c^{\,2}<0$$ for all permissible values of $$c$$, we find that $$V$$ is maximized at $$c=\sqrt n$$. Since V is convex in $$c$$, the optimal integer-valued threshold must be either $$\lfloor \sqrt n \rfloor$$ or $$\lceil \sqrt n \rceil$$. Thus, for most values of $$n$$ the interviewer will begin accepting applicants sooner in the cardinal payoff version than in the classical version where the objective is to select the single best applicant. Note that this is not an asymptotic result: It holds for all $$n$$. However, this is not the optimal policy to maximize expected value from a known distribution. In the case of a known distribution, optimal play can be calculated via dynamic programming.

A more general form of this problem introduced by Palley and Kremer (2014) assumes that as each new applicant arrives, the interviewer observes their rank relative to all of the applicants that have been observed previously. This model is consistent with the notion of an interviewer learning as they continue the search process by accumulating a set of past data points that they can use to evaluate new candidates as they arrive. A benefit of this so-called partial-information model is that decisions and outcomes achieved given the relative rank information can be directly compared to the corresponding optimal decisions and outcomes if the interviewer had been given full information about the value of each applicant. This full-information problem, in which applicants are drawn independently from a known distribution and the interviewer seeks to maximize the expected value of the applicant selected, was originally solved by Moser (1956), Sakaguchi (1961), and Karlin (1962).

Other modifications
There are several variants of the secretary problem that also have simple and elegant solutions.

Pick the second-best, using one try
One variant replaces the desire to pick the best with the desire to pick the second-best. Robert J. Vanderbei calls this the "postdoc" problem arguing that the "best" will go to Harvard. For this problem, the probability of success for an even number of applicants is exactly $$ \frac{0.25n^2}{n(n-1)} $$. This probability tends to 1/4 as n tends to infinity illustrating the fact that it is easier to pick the best than the second-best.

Pick the top-k ones, using k tries
Consider the problem of picking the k best secretaries out of n candidates, using k tries.

In general, the optimal decision method starts by observing $$r=\left\lfloor\frac{n}{k e^{1 / k}}\right\rfloor$$ candidates without picking any one of them, then pick every candidate that is better than those first $$r$$ candidates until we run out of candidates or picks. If $$k$$ is held constant while $$n\to\infty$$, then the probability of success converges to $$\frac{1}{ek}$$. By, if $$k = n/2$$, then the probability of success is $$\frac{1}{n/2+1}$$.

Pick the best, using multiple tries
In this variant, a player is allowed $$r$$ choices and wins if any choice is the best. An optimal strategy for this problem belongs to the class of strategies defined by a set of threshold numbers $$(a_1, a_2, ..., a_r)$$, where $$a_1 > a_2 > \cdots > a_r$$.

Specifically, imagine that you have $$r$$ letters of acceptance labelled from $$1$$ to $$r$$. You would have $$r$$ application officers, each holding one letter. You keep interviewing the candidates and rank them on a chart that every application officer can see. Now officer $$i$$ would send their letter of acceptance to the first candidate that is better than all candidates $$1$$ to $$a_i$$. (Unsent letters of acceptance are by default given to the last applicants, the same as in the standard secretary problem.)

At $$n \rightarrow \infty$$ limit, each $$a_i \sim ne^{-k_i}$$, for some rational number $$k_i$$.

Probability of winning
When $$r=2$$, the probability of winning converges to $$e^{-1} + e^{-\frac{3}{2}}, (n \rightarrow \infty)$$. More generally, for positive integers $$r$$, the probability of winning converges to $$p_1 + p_2 + \cdots + p_r$$, where $$p_i = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \frac{a_i}{n}$$.

computed up to $$r=4$$, with $$e^{-1} + e^{-\frac{3}{2}} + e^{-\frac{47}{24}} + e^{-\frac{2761}{1152}}$$.

gave a general algorithm. For example, $$p_5 = e^{-\frac{4162637}{1474560}}$$.

Experimental studies
Experimental psychologists and economists have studied the decision behavior of actual people in secretary problem situations. In large part, this work has shown that people tend to stop searching too soon. This may be explained, at least in part, by the cost of evaluating candidates. In real world settings, this might suggest that people do not search enough whenever they are faced with problems where the decision alternatives are encountered sequentially. For example, when trying to decide at which gas station along a highway to stop for gas, people might not search enough before stopping. If true, then they would tend to pay more for gas than if they had searched longer. The same may be true when people search online for airline tickets. Experimental research on problems such as the secretary problem is sometimes referred to as behavioral operations research.

Neural correlates
While there is a substantial body of neuroscience research on information integration, or the representation of belief, in perceptual decision-making tasks using both animal and human subjects, there is relatively little known about how the decision to stop gathering information is arrived at.

Researchers have studied the neural bases of solving the secretary problem in healthy volunteers using functional MRI. A Markov decision process (MDP) was used to quantify the value of continuing to search versus committing to the current option. Decisions to take versus decline an option engaged parietal and dorsolateral prefrontal cortices, as well ventral striatum, anterior insula, and anterior cingulate. Therefore, brain regions previously implicated in evidence integration and reward representation encode threshold crossings that trigger decisions to commit to a choice.

History
The secretary problem was apparently introduced in 1949 by Merrill M. Flood, who called it the fiancée problem in a lecture he gave that year. He referred to it several times during the 1950s, for example, in a conference talk at Purdue on 9 May 1958, and it eventually became widely known in the folklore although nothing was published at the time. In 1958 he sent a letter to Leonard Gillman, with copies to a dozen friends including Samuel Karlin and J. Robbins, outlining a proof of the optimum strategy, with an appendix by R. Palermo who proved that all strategies are dominated by a strategy of the form "reject the first p unconditionally, then accept the next candidate who is better".

The first publication was apparently by Martin Gardner in Scientific American, February 1960. He had heard about it from John H. Fox Jr., and L. Gerald Marnie, who had independently come up with an equivalent problem in 1958; they called it the "game of googol". Fox and Marnie did not know the optimum solution; Gardner asked for advice from Leo Moser, who (together with J. R. Pounder) provided a correct analysis for publication in the magazine. Soon afterwards, several mathematicians wrote to Gardner to tell him about the equivalent problem they had heard via the grapevine, all of which can most likely be traced to Flood's original work.

The 1/e-law of best choice is due to F. Thomas Bruss.

Ferguson has an extensive bibliography and points out that a similar (but different) problem had been considered by Arthur Cayley in 1875 and even by Johannes Kepler long before that, who spent 2 years investigating 11 candidates for marriage during 1611 -- 1613 after the death of his first wife.

Combinatorial generalization
The secretary problem can be generalized to the case where there are multiple different jobs. Again, there are $$n$$ applicants coming in random order. When a candidate arrives, she reveals a set of nonnegative numbers. Each value specifies her qualification for one of the jobs. The administrator not only has to decide whether or not to take the applicant but, if so, also has to assign her permanently to one of the jobs. The objective is to find an assignment where the sum of qualifications is as big as possible. This problem is identical to finding a maximum-weight matching in an edge-weighted bipartite graph where the $$n$$ nodes of one side arrive online in random order. Thus, it is a special case of the online bipartite matching problem.

By a generalization of the classic algorithm for the secretary problem, it is possible to obtain an assignment where the expected sum of qualifications is only a factor of $$e$$ less than an optimal (offline) assignment.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Secretary problem


text:
Pontoon, County Mayo

Pontoon is a lakeside village on the R310 regional road in County Mayo in Ireland, situated between Lough Conn and Lough Cullin, and near the town of Foxford.

The dance hall in Pontoon attracted large numbers of people to its week-end dances from a large catchment area.

title: Pontoon, County Mayo


text:
Talk:Australian Securities Exchange

Historical ASX Data
I found some lovely data on a Wikinvest.com page covering the ASX. Would it be useful to this article? - Vikramparsani (talk) 06:36, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

ACCC
Wouldn't the ASX be regulated by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC), not the ACCC.
 * Umm, it says ASIC. Do you mean is it meant to be ACCC?  (I stuck in the ASX history page, which shows ASIC under 1998, which was the reference for that bit.)  -- Kevin Ryde 01:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Time
Do you think its necessary to have AEDT? Suicup 12:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * AEDT is appropriate IMO. Even if not for international viewers, Australia has 3 or more time zones which means confusion can still happen in the non-east (if that's even a word). Boardumb 13:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Change of Name
ASX has changed from 'Stock' to 'Securities' as of 5/12/2006. I guess it needs to be changed, but I'm too hack to know what to do. Boardumb 13:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It looks like they use both names (and "ASX Limited" too) for slightly different things - it's not clear to me tonight which is what. From the bottom of their web site:

© ASX Limited ABN 98 008 624 691 The Australian Securities Exchange operates the Australian Stock Exchange and the Sydney Futures Exchange and facilitates trading in securities and derivatives such as shares, futures, options and warrants. ASX also provides market data, for example share prices, and related information including stock market announcements and market education.
 * --Scott Davis Talk 15:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Logo
Logo was recently changed from gif to png image, which is good. Unfortunately the png was an outdated logo (ie. it said Australian Stock Exchange not Australian Securities Exchange) so I have changed it back. This means unfortunately that it is still a gif rather than a png image which would be preferable. Orizon 07:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

CFD's section needs updating.
As per title. CFD's started trading on 5th. Nov. 2007. Cheers, Todd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.168.119.78 (talk) 05:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Companies formerly listed on the Australian Securities Exchange
I've created Category:Companies formerly listed on the Australian Securities Exchange, similar to the one already existing for the New York Stock Exchange. My primary reason was to be able to destinguish mining companies formerly listed on the ASX from the ones still listed there. Hopefully, the delisted companies will slowly now be migrated from the active category. Calistemon (talk) 05:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

ASX is the 12th largest in the world not the 9th
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_exchanges Toronto is 8th and there are 3 others (Madrid, Frankfurt, Bombay) that are smaller than Toronto and bigger than ASX. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grmike (talk • contribs) 05:53, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I work for ASX and want to update this page, however my edits aren't allowed. We want to have accurate and current data. I am new to Wikipedia and I am having difficulty. Please help
for example add this

Market Supervision

On 1 August 2010 responsibility for the supervision of real-time trading on Australia’s domestic licensed financial markets and the supervision of the conduct by participants (including the relationship between participants and their clients) on those markets transferred to ASIC.

ASX retained responsibility for ensuring participants admitted to its market comply with its operating rules. The new arrangements did not change ASX’s existing oversight of listed entities or the obligations on ASX’s clearing and settlement facility operators.

ASX retained a subsidiary company to fulfil the obligations of each of he licensed entities in the ASX Group to monitor and enforce compliance with the ASX operating rules after the transfer. The name of the subsidiary was changed to ASX Compliance, as the previous name - ASX Markets Supervision - no longer properly described the subsidiary’s role within the ASX Group or ASX’s ongoing obligations.

BUT I ALSO want to delete old sections —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawson m (talk • contribs) 01:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Perhaps I can help here. Lawson, thank you for acknowledging you work for ASX. Obviously you have first-hand knowledge of the organisation that means you can see ways in which the article could be improved. And, true, the article is pretty dreadful :-). However, as you can see from the notes left by other editors above, there is considerable concern about the scop for introducing overly promotional material into the article. The best way for you to participate in improving the article is to post proposed amendments on the article talk page. There, other editors can examine them and, if they think they improve the article, then other editors can transfer them into the article. One of the key things needed in the process is reliable sources provided in the form of inline citations. Here's an example, using text that you proposed for inclusion, but to which I have added a citation:

"ASX Group can be described as a multi-asset class and vertically integrated exchange group. Its activities include primary and secondary market services, including the raising, allocation and hedging of capital flows, trading and price discovery (Australian Securities Exchange); central counterparty risk transfer (via subsidiaries of ASX Clearing Corporation); and securities settlement for both the equities and fixed income markets (via subsidiaries of ASX Settlement Corporation)."
 * (Note however not all the facts in your text - particularly the names of which subsidiary does what task - are on that webpage, so another source, perhaps from elsewhere on the ASX's site, would ultimately be needed to cover all the facts). Once you placed the above on the talk page, an editor such as myself can come along, assess it, and then add it if it seems like a good idea. Which i will now do. Regards, hamiltonstone (talk) 01:43, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * PS If you want to delete text from the article (perhaps it is inaccurate, out of date, or unencyclopedic - the article is full of such rubbish, frankly), then copy and paste it on the article talk page with a note saying you think this should be deleted, and explaining briefly why. hamiltonstone (talk) 01:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

 * thanks very much for explaining more about the process. Can I insert all of the text in the talk field i.e. our thoughts on what it should contain, or do I have to refer to each section?
 * thanks again, Maree —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawson m (talk • contribs) 02:12, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

That depends on whether you think it should be structured in a particular way. It also depends on whether other editors will need it explained so that they put it in the correct place (from your point of view). If you don't have a view, then just put it here and other editors may work it out, or will post questions here if they want your opinion. Pls don't forget what i said on your talk page about the need for sources though. Editors are not likely to be happy if you only propose text but don't offer the sources for it as well. Cheers, hamiltonstone (talk) 02:20, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi, our process was to review the data in terms of accuracy, current relevance and to best explain our organisation. The people involved in the review included the Head of Education, Manager Corporate Relations and our legal department. Where the most up-to-date information was on our site - we thought it would be appropriate to point there rather than duplicate material. We also tried to keep it in line with the information presented on Wiki for other exchanges. If there is too much detail, it can get out of date quickly. Sorry if I get some of the coding wrong relating to hyperlinks.

DELETIONS: Market Details - we propose that this text is updated & placed in the first few paragraphs (see below). Much of the data in this area is out of date e.g. number of stocks listed, market cap and turnover etc. Dominant broker info is out of date.

Trading system - This section is confusing I agree. It is extremely out of date. The SEATS trading platform is long gone and yet it is referred to as if it was still in existence. We recommend removing this section.

Settlement - we recommend remove this section for brevity. It is accurate if you decide to maintain it.

Short selling - out of date e.g. mentions SEATS. Ideally we would remove this section, however if you are looking for up-to-date info, here are some options:

Alternatives include: ASX makes available a daily gross short sale report.

ASX Market rules on short selling

What is securities lending?

ASIC is now responsible for regulation of the market. They have some good info on Short Selling e.g. http://www.fido.gov.au/fido/fido.nsf/byheadline/Short+selling+-+what+is+it+anyway%3F?openDocument

Options, Warrants, LEPOs, IRS, Futures etc. - People will find the most up-to-date info on these products in terms of explanations and how to trade on the ASX website. We suggest that links be placed to their respective product pages on www.asx.com.au (see below replacement text). This way they are also up-to-date because again the Warrants section mentions they are traded on SEATS - and SEATS has been gone as a trading system for many years.

Schools' Sharemarket Game - We recommend removing this section because it stands alone i.e. it's the only Education product mentioned and it also only mention our Schools Game, when we actually run 2 for the public each year as well.

ASX Limited - There is duplication between the 2 boxes on the right hand side e.g. Type, website (see below). We suggest they be combined and information that changes regularly be removed e.g. market cap, numbers of listings, revenue.

The pictures throughout the page are great.

The text that I place here is our suggested replacement text:

ASX Limited box Some of this data is out of date e.g. revenue, employees, Eric Mayne is about to leave. We propose the following:

Type	Stock exchange (ASX: ASX)

Founded	1987, but dating back to 1861 Headquarters	Sydney, Australia Key people	Key people Industry	Securities markets Website

Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) The Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) was created by the merger of the Australian Stock Exchange and the Sydney Futures Exchange in July 2006. It is the primary exchange group in Australia.

On 1 August, ASX launched a new brand and group structure. ASX Group became the overarching name, replacing Australian Securities Exchange, which remains as the name of the listings and trading arm of the ASX Group.

ASX Group can be described as a multi-asset class and vertically integrated exchange group. Its activities include primary and secondary market services, including the raising, allocation and hedging of capital flows, trading and price discovery (Australian Securities Exchange); central counterparty risk transfer (via subsidiaries of ASX Clearing Corporation); and securities settlement for both the equities and fixed income markets (via subsidiaries of ASX Settlement Corporation).

ASX offers a broad array of products and services including shares; futures, exchange traded options, warrants, contracts for difference, exchange traded funds, real estate investment trusts, listed investment companies and interest rate securities.

ASX functions as a market operator, clearing house and payments system facilitator. It oversees compliance with its operating rules, promotes standards of corporate governance among Australia’s listed companies and helps to educate retail investors.

ASX offers a range of educational materials relating to its products including free online courses.

ASX operates two trading, clearing and settlement platforms, one for equity and related equity derivative products traded on an integrated trading platform between the hours of 10:00am and 4:00pm (AEST); and one for a suite of interest rate, equity index and commodity futures (and options on futures) products as well as Contracts For Difference (CFD), traded on a globally distributed 24 hour platform.

Monitoring and enforcement of compliance with its operating rules is performed by its wholly-owned subsidiary, ASX Compliance.

Operations of the ASX Group are regulated by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) which regulates all trading venues and clearing and settlement facilities, and supervises ASX’s own compliance as a listed public company. The Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) also provides oversight in relation to compliance with financial stability standards for ASX’s central counterparties and securities settlement facilities.

History The exchange began as six separate exchanges established in the state capitals Melbourne (1861), Sydney (1871), Hobart (1882), Brisbane (1884), Adelaide (1887) and Perth (1889). A further exchange in Launceston merged into the Hobart exchange.

The first interstate conference was held in 1903 at Melbourne Cup time. The exchanges then met on an informal basis until 1937 when the Australian Associated Stock Exchanges (AASE) was established, with representatives from each exchange. Over time the AASE established uniform listing rules, broker rules, and commission rates.

The ASX (Australian Stock Exchange Limited) was formed in 1987 by legislation of the Australian Parliament which enabled the amalgamation of six independent stock exchanges that formerly operated in the state capital cities. After demutualisation the ASX was the first exchange in the world to have its shares quoted on its own market. The ASX was listed on 14 October 1998.

On 7 July 2006 the Australian Stock Exchange merged with SFE Corporation, holding company for the Sydney Futures Exchange.

Timeline of significant events - suggest we replace all of the entries there currently and point to this table: http://www.asx.com.au/about/asx/history/history_ASX.htm

Market Supervision On 1 August 2010 responsibility for the supervision of real-time trading on Australia’s domestic licensed financial markets and the supervision of the conduct by participants (including the relationship between participants and their clients) on those markets transferred to ASIC.

ASX retained responsibility for ensuring participants admitted to its market comply with its operating rules. The new arrangements did not change ASX’s existing oversight of listed entities or the obligations on ASX’s clearing and settlement facility operators.

ASX retained a subsidiary company to fulfil the obligations of each of he licensed entities in the ASX Group to monitor and enforce compliance with the ASX operating rules after the transfer. The name of the subsidiary was changed to ASX Compliance, as the previous name - ASX Markets Supervision - no longer properly described the subsidiary’s role within the ASX Group or ASX’s ongoing obligations.

See Also

 * List of stock exchanges
 * List of futures exchanges
 * Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs) listed on ASX
 * All Ordinaries

References

Progress
Thanks Maree. It is rather difficult to follow some of your above proposals, due to the lack of formatting, indenting etc. It would help if you checked out how to do layout that sort of stuff: for headings, see WP:LAYOUT. Indentation can be achieved just using colons - the more colons, the deeper the indentation. I have made some changes based on some of what i could decipher from your text. At this stage I would oppose removing the timeline. Eventually, key dates should be translated into prose, but I think it is better to leave it there for now, unless you believe any of the entries are actually incorrect. While it seems to make sense to combine those two infoboxes, I'm pretty sure we can't, the reason being that one follows the template for exchanges, while the other is providing info on the ASX as a company. There is a potentially bigger issue here: whether there should be two completely separate articles, one about the exchange and one about the company. But that's better avoided for the moment i think :-) I've got to go for now. I'll try and get back to this another time (as may other editors). If you are able to supply references for any of the existing uncited text, (without changing the text), I recommend going ahead and inserting them in the article, and just leaving a note here on the talk page that you've done it. We also need to find a more up-to-date market turnover figure than that for 2004, if you can point us to one. hamiltonstone (talk) 01:54, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree that any information that is out-of-date or incorrect should be updated and sourced, would not recommend removing sections & just pointing to website, the article needs to be encyclopedic, not just a listing for the company. Agree that the timeline should stay, as encyclopedic articles often emphasize the history and evolution of companies, exchanges, etc. Since the subject of this article is the exchange, the holding company's information should remain in a separate section right now, but this part needs improvement and updating, for sure. Thanks, --Funandtrvl (talk) 16:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletions
Hi

these are the areas we recommend for deletion as they are out of date:

Brokers that dominate market share in Australia (in decreasing order) include Macquarie Bank, Goldman Sachs JBWere, UBS, Citigroup, Merrill Lynch, CSFB, Deutsche Bank, ABN AMRO, CommSec and Morgan Stanley. Retail investors account for around 20% of market turnover. Market ownership is broken down as 30% institutional, 40% foreign, 30% retail.

Trading systems (SEATS/ITS)
Since 2 October 2006, trading of shares, warrants, fixed-interest securities and company-issued options and rights has been conducted on the Click-XT system, also known as the Integrated Trading System (ITS). The Integrated Trading System processes more transactions per second than the older Stock Exchange Automated Trading System (SEATS), and allows multi-order transactions (up to 5 orders per transaction). SEATS was an all-electronic order matching system, based on time and price priority, and accepted market orders (to buy or sell at market price) or limit orders (to buy at no more than a given price, or to sell at no less than a given price).

Short selling
Short selling of shares is permitted on the ASX, but only among designated stocks and with certain conditions:

 * The sell order must be at a price not lower than the last trade ('uptick rule').
 * No more than a total 10% of the shares on issue may be sold short. (Brokers report net short positions to the ASX daily.)
 * Margin cover of 20% of the current share price must be posted.

Many brokers do not offer short selling to small private investors. LEPOs (below) can serve as an equivalent, while contracts for difference (CFDs) offered by third-party providers are another alternative.

In September 2008, ASIC suspended nearly all forms of short selling due to concerns about market stability in the ongoing global financial crisis. The ban on covered short selling was lifted in May 2009.

Options
Options on leading shares are traded on the ASX, with standardised sets of strike prices and expiry dates. Liquidity is provided by market makers who are required to provide quotes. Each market maker is assigned two or more stocks. A stock can have more than one market maker, and they compete with one another. A market maker may choose one or both of:

 * Make a market continuously, on a set of 18 options.
 * Make a market in response to a quote request, in any option up to 9 months out.

In both cases there is a minimum quantity (5 or 10 contracts depending on the shares) and a maximum spread permitted.

Due to the higher risks in options, brokers must check clients' suitability before allowing them to trade options. Clients may both take (i.e. buy) and write (i.e. sell) options. For written positions, the client must put up margin.

Low exercise price options
A Low Exercise Price Option (LEPO) is a European-style call option with a low exercise price of $0.01 and a contract size of 1000 shares to be delivered on exercise. LEPOs are traded on margin, and a trader may take a long or short position. Market makers ensure continuous price quotations.

LEPOs work like a futures contract. Being European-style, they cannot be exercised until expiry. The premium is practically the whole share price, and a trader only posts margin, not the full price.

LEPOs were introduced in 1994, in response to the Sydney Futures Exchange offering futures over individual ASX shares. Regulations at the time prevented the ASX offering futures contracts, hence the LEPO form. Presently LEPOs are available on 47 leading stocks.

Interest rate market
The ASX interest rate market is the set of corporate bonds, floating rate notes, and bond-like preference shares listed on the exchange. These securities are traded and settled in the same way as ordinary shares, but the ASX provides information such as their maturity, effective interest rate, etc., to aid comparison.

Futures
The Sydney Futures Exchange (SFE) – now a part of the ASX – was the 10th largest derivatives exchange in the world, providing derivatives in interest rates, equities, currencies and commodities. It provided futures and options on the four most actively traded markets - interest rates, equities, currencies and commodities including wool and cattle. Its most active products are:

 * SPI 200 Futures – Futures contracts on an index representing the largest 200 stocks on the Australian Stock Exchange by market capitalisation.
 * AU 90-day Bank Accepted Bill Futures – Australia's equivalent of T-Bill futures.
 * 3-Year Bond Futures – Futures contracts on Australian 3-year bonds
 * 10-Year Bond Futures – Futures contracts on Australian 10-year bonds.

The ASX trades futures over the ASX 50, ASX 200 and ASX property indexes, and over grain, electricity and wool. Options over grain futures are also traded.

Futures are traded on DTP, the Derivatives Trading Platform (also known as CLICK).

Schools' Sharemarket Game
ASX's Schools' Sharemarket Game provides school students with the opportunity to hypothetically invest $50,000 in the stock exchange. Students buy and sell shares at current market prices and track the progress of their investments over a ten-week period.

ASX regulation
The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) regulates the ASX with an element of self-regulation, creating "co-regulation". There are at least 20 examples of co-regulation:

 * 1) As a licensed market, ASX has legal obligations under Corporations Act 2001 (Cth) (s792A, Part 7.2, Div 3) to run a market which is "fair, orderly and transparent".
 * 2) ASX must give information to ASIC regarding listed companies:  s 792C.
 * 3) ASX must assist ASIC: s 792D.
 * 4) ASX must give ASIC access to the market: s 792E.
 * 5) ASX can "refer" matters to ASIC for further investigation.
 * 6) ASX must lodge an annual compliance report with ASIC: s 792F.
 * 7) ASX's Operating Rules are binding in contract: s 793B.
 * 8) ASIC must be informed of any changes to ASX Operating Rules: s 793D.
 * 9) ASX's Operating Rules may be disallowed by the Minister (Treasury): s 793E.
 * 10) ASIC has oversight of all market licensees including ASX.
 * 11) ASX must notify ASIC of disciplinary actions it takes against participants: s 792B.
 * 12) ASX's Operating Rules are enforceable by ASIC, the market licensee (ASX), clearing house or "a person aggrieved": s 793C.
 * 13) The Minister can give directions to ASX: s 794A.
 * 14) The Minister can call for a report on specified matters regarding ASX: s 794B.
 * 15) ASIC must complete an annual assessment of ASX's compliance with the law: s794C.
 * 16) ASIC can give ASX directions to suspend dealings or some other direction to ensure a fair and orderly market: s 794D.
 * 17) The Minister may impose conditions on ASX's Australian Market Licence: s 796A.
 * 18) Since ASX is itself a public company listed on ASX, ASIC regulates ASX.
 * 19) There are limits on the control of ASX (max 15% ownership by one person): Part 7.4, Div 1
 * 20) ASX Markets Supervision Pty Ltd, a subsidiary of ASX, is responsible for supervising market operations. It was created to address the perceived conflict between ASX’s regulatory and commercial functions.
 * 21) ASIC can investigate ASX: Part 3, ASIC Act 2001 (Cth)

Lawson m (talk) 05:29, 28 September 2010 (UTC)MAREE

Comments in response to deletion proposals
Generally, the way to fix these thigns is to bring them up-to-date rather than delete them, unless the section is considered of no help to the article (and I think there are some that do fit that description and which I will delete). Specifics:

MAREE - The suggestions were partly for brevity and to bring the page more inline with what's covered on overseas exchanges. But mainly because the information was out of date and therefore could be misleading.

 * Obviously the ASX must operate a trading system of some sort - is your concern that this section describes an old system, or some other concern? Can you suggest some new wording to accurately describe the current system?

MAREE - alternative text:

ASX executes over 10 million equity trades per month with an average daily value of A$5 billion. ASX also offers an increasingly diversified range of Futures and Options contracts. This year ASX launched ASX Trade™ a NASDAQ OMX ultra-low latency trading platform based on NASDAQ OMX’s Genium INET system. http://www.asx.com.au/professionals/asx_trade/index.htm

The replacement for ITS (formerly SEATS) is due to go live in November 2010.

 * Short selling is well-known and sometimes controversial. I think it is important that the article has a section on this. What is inaccurate in this section, and can you provide sources for the more up-to-date info?

MAREE - I will source something usefl and get back to you

 * Can you explain briefly what your concerns are about the section on options (including LEPO)?

MAREE - LEPOS aren't traded any longer
 * OK, LEPO section deleted. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 * "Interest rate market" - is this no longer accurate or no longer a market that is provided?

MAREE - our preference was to direct people to the most up to date source on our website and again for brevity. You have descriptions for some products and not others. We can check this content for accuracy if you plan to keep it. Link to all products http://www.asx.com.au/products/index.htm
 * A general comment. Maree, it isn't going to work that way. Wikipedia is aiming to host comprehensive summary, encyclopedic information. It isn't and won't aim for brevity per se, and it will actively avoid any possibility of "direct[ing] people to the most up to date source on our website". Thanks for the link that provides info about the products. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Futures trading would seem an improtant subject - what is wrong with the current text? Or is your point that the Australian Securities Exchange is not the organisation providing this trade opportunity?

MAREE - we trade Futures but the product range is so much more extensive - on our website. They aren't traded on Click any longer though.
 * Reference to Click removed. hamiltonstone (talk) 04:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Don't know why you want the schools sharemarket game removed - it is still on the ASX website. Do you think it is not significant enough to cover here?

MAREE - thanks very much for your help. Personally I would keep the Game there but change it to show that we have 2 games a year for secondary schools children and 2 for adults. It was just the preference from my manager to shorten the text on the page by removing the Game. Up to you. http://www.asx.com.au/resources/education/games/index.htm

Hope you will respond to these queries. hamiltonstone (talk) 05:52, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Maree Lawson 28 September 2010 at 4:49

External links modified
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Locations of the Exchange
No addresses are shown in the article, however a number of the images show past and present buildings. At The ASX Site is a list of locations of the Exchange. Would it be appropriate to show a list of locations in the article? Collywolly (talk) 11:31, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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title: Talk:Australian Securities Exchange


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title: User:Syynapse


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Takht-i-Bahi

Takht-i-Bahi (Pashto/), is an Indo-Parthian archaeological site of an ancient Buddhist monastery in Mardan, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan. The site is considered among the most important relics of Buddhism in all of what was once Gandhara, and has been "exceptionally well-preserved."

The monastery was founded in the 1st century CE,  and was in use until the 7th century. The complex is regarded by archaeologists as being particularly representative of the architecture of Buddhist monastic centers from its era. Takht-i-Bahi was listed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1980.

Etymology
A monastery under the domain of Purusapura which was also a center for Buddhist learning, the origin of the name Takht-i-Bahi is uncertain. Local belief postulates that site got its name from two wells on the hill, or the springs nearby. In Persian, Takht means 'top' or 'throne' while bahi means 'spring' or 'water'. When combined, its meaning is 'spring from the top' or 'high spring', and there were two springs on the top of mountains. Another meaning suggested is 'throne of origin'.

The another suggested etymology explains it seems that the name Takht-i-Bahi was given to this monastery complex after the Muslims settled in the region. The word "Bahi" (بهی) or "Behhi" is neither Pashto nor Persian, and in one sense in Arabic "Bahi" means beautiful and bright. In another sense "Bahi" (بهی) means "بهی البیت بهیاً: the house which is empty and abandoned", therefore, the "Takht-i-Bahi" (Takht = castle, palace) means a castle where in there no longer is settled a king and has remained abandoned.

Location
The ruins are located about 15 km from Mardan in Pakistan's Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Province. A small fortified city, dating from the same era, sits nearby. The ruins also sit near a modern village known by the same name. It is located around 500 ft atop the small hill and around 2 km from the village bazar. The surrounding area is known for sugar cane, wheat, maize, vegetable, and orchard cultivation. Once remote and little visited, the site now has a road and car park, set below the ruins, and has become popular with visitors.

Structure
There are four main areas of the Takht Bahi complex:
 * The Stupa Court, a cluster of stupas located in a central courtyard.
 * The monastic chambers, consisting of individual cells arranged around a courtyard, assembly halls, and a dining area.
 * A temple complex, consisting of stupas and similar to the Stupa Court, but of later construction.
 * The Tantric monastic complex, which consists of small, dark cells with low openings, which may have been used for certain forms of Tantric meditation.

Additional structures on the site may have served as residences or meeting halls, or for secular purposes. All of the buildings on the site are constructed from local stone, and are mortared with lime and mud.

History
Archaeologists have divided the history of the complex into four periods, beginning in the 1st century BCE.

The monastic complex was likely founded in the early 1st century CE. It is proven by an inscriptions found bearing the name of Gondophares (20–46CE). After Gondophares, the area fell under control of Kujula Kadphises, the first Kushan king. This first era continued until the 2nd century CE, and is associated with another Kushan king Kanishka, as well as early Parthian and subsequent Kushan kings. The second construction period, which included the creation of the Stupa Court and assembly hall, took place during the 3rd and 4th centuries CE. A third construction period, associated with the later Kushan dynasty and the Kidara Kushana rulers, occurred during the 4th and 5th centuries.

The region was subjugated by Huns in middle of fifth century CE which ended the Kushan rule. The Hun Toramana and then his son Mihirakula slaughtered the inhabitants of the Gandhara region and destroyed most if not all Buddhist monasteries. Evidence suggests that Takht-i-Bahi was destroyed in the same period of destruction by the Huns, however the complex appears to have been in use until 7th century CE.

The first modern historical reference to these ruins was made in 1836 by a French officer who referred to the Buddhist remains in a village named Mazdoorabad. Explorations and excavations on the site began in 1864. A significant number of objects can be found in the British Museum. The site underwent a major restoration in the 1920s.

Works of art
A famous stair-raiser from Takht-i-Bahi, now in the British Museum, shows devotees in Hellenistic costume.

Nearby localities
The villages of Thordher (Old name Said Ghani Kalae), Ghafe, Lund Khwar, Sher Garh, Saroo Shah, Sehri-Bahlol, Pathai, Mazdoorabad, Fazl-e-abad, Gangai, Hathian, Jalala, Pirsaddi, Takkar and Mashal Khan Kalai are other historical places in the vicinity of Takht-i-Bahi. The most historical location in the era is Sehri Bahlol. The monastery is situated on Malakand Road.

The word "Sehri-Bahlol" has been explained by various people in different ways. Local people claim that this is a Hindko word meaning "Sir Bahlol", a prominent political and religious leader of the area. However, the name is not as old as the village of Sehri-Bahlol.

title: Takht-i-Bahi


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Talk:Mohe people

MALGAL
The modern Korean pronunciation of the Chinese characters 靺鞨 is, indeed, Malgal; however, the final "l" sound is derived from a glottally stopped entering tone in older and Southern Chinese dialects which was stopped with a "t" [ㄷ] sound. The t-glottal stops changed to "l's" [ㄹ]in Middle Korean. So while Korean is usually a better reflection of the sounds represented for non-Chinese words in old documents than Mandarin dialect Chinese, we need to keep the above sound change in mind. The t-stops are preserved, moreover, in Japanese--reflected as an additional syllable, "-matsu" (マツ) [靺鞨=マツカツ」. So, the more accurate Korean reading for these characters would be Matkat rather than Malgal. Doc Rock
 * You dont know Korean language.--Hairwizard91 08:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I was discussing the pronounciation of an old Chinese term, and only ancillarily discussing Korean; however, for the record, I studied Korean for a year at the US Army Language School in Monterey in 1961. I later earned a BA from Indiana University with a major in Korean Studies and a minor in Japanese in 1966. I received a Masters degree in Korean Studies from Princeton University in 1969 with minors in Chinese and Japanese. I later earned a PhD in Korean literature in 1981, also from Princeton (Dissertation: The Sijo Poetry of Pak Nogye). I was a Fulbright Fellow in Korea 1967-1968 and during that time I studied Middle Korean with Professor Kim Minsu [김민수 金敏洙](高麗大), Old Korean with Professor Yang Chudong 梁柱東 (東国大), and Classical Chinese (in Korean) with [Im Ch'angsun 任昌淳]. I've taught Korean language, literature, and history at Indiana University and Japanese language and literature at Colby College. I have worked most of my life as a Korean teacher and translator. These are my Korean language bona fides. Now would the Hairwizard91 wish to discuss specifics about my earlier comment or just throw unsupported insults? --Doc Rock 02:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Mohe borders and lands?
I've made a series of maps that cover history from 1300 BC to 1200 AD, including several maps that show "Mohe Tribes". But I don't have any more information than that! I'd love to include borders for the Mohe and any official Kingdoms they ruled. Anyone have any info? Thomas Lessman (talk) 08:26, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Bogus sources
http://www.iacd.or.kr/pdf/journal/04/4-02.pdf is a totally bogus article. It's making statements based on vague resemblances of words, not considering even phonetic changes during times and other factors. "Because "Mogher", "Merjie" and "Mo-jie" are all pronounced much like "Magyar", it can be deduced that the Mo-jie fu of the Bo-hai (渤海) kingdom was probably the residence of the remaining tribespeople of the Mogher, a majority of whom had moved to the west and kept the name "Magyar".". Seriously, is this considered a scientific approach? Teemeah 편지 (letter)  13:42, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Balhae was a Mohe Kingdom
Balhae was an ethnic Mohe Tungusic ruled Kingdom with some Korean subjects. The royal family was Mohe.

"Should Balhae be viewed as Korean because its founder and many of its subjects had been subjects of Goguryeo? Or, because its founder was a Malgal, should it be viewed as an Inner Asian state, more like the Xianbei, Khitan, Jurchen ... Treating it as part of Korean history is much like treating the Xiongnu and Mongols as part of Chinese history" - Pre-Modern East Asia: A Cultural, Social, and Political History, pg. 111

"[Parhae] did occupy the northernmost parts of what is now Korea, including the modern Hamgyong Province, and its ruling dynasty of non-Korean ethnic origins proudly laid claim to Koguryo's heritage. The rulers of Parhae often referred to their state as the successor to Koguryo, and many of the leading families traced their ancestry to that state. But Parhae's population was predominately of groups different from those that evolved into modern ethnic Koreans." - Michael J. Seth, in A History of Korea: From Antiquity to the Present

Rajmaan (talk) 02:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I've looked through both sources, and unsurprisingly, the authors give no reference to their notion that Balhae's founder is of Mohe stock. Which historical texts state Dae Joyoung is Mohe/Malgal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inaevyn (talk • contribs) 22:47, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mohe people


text:
The Family (band)

The Family was a band formed by Prince, and one of the first on Prince's record label, Paisley Park Records. The band reformed as fDeluxe in 2011. This band should not be confused with a 1970s Minneapolis R&B band of the same name.

History
The band's origins started with the disintegration of the Time in 1984. Lead singer Morris Day had left the band to pursue a solo career and guitarist Jesse Johnson became the de facto band leader. Prince suggested restructuring the band with new member Paul Peterson to head the group, but Johnson opposed. A few of the Time's newer members followed Johnson to join his backing band (called Jesse Johnson's Revue).

As the Time had served as an outlet for Prince to release more music, he wanted to continue this avenue, presenting the remaining members of the Time, Jellybean Johnson, Jerome Benton, and Paul Peterson, with his new project. They agreed to become a new band called the Family, with Peterson renamed "St. Paul" as the frontman and bassist. Johnson and Benton reprised their familiar roles from the Time. Prince added Susannah Melvoin, the twin sister of Revolution guitarist Wendy Melvoin, as a backing singer and keyboardist. The fifth member was Eric Leeds, the brother of Prince's tour manager Alan Leeds, who provided saxophone and flute. Also joining was bassist Allen Flowers. Guitarist Miko Weaver, from Sheila E.'s band, is credited in the album credits because he was to be a session and tour player, but was never officially a member of the band.

Much like the Time, the band's material was composed entirely by Prince, with the exception of "River Run Dry", which was written by Revolution drummer Bobby Z. Prince wrote and performed all the other tracks and simply overdubbed Peterson's and Melvoin's vocals and added Leeds' saxophone and flute. On several tracks, Prince's vocals can be clearly heard. Some of the original demos have surfaced as bootlegs and circulate among fans with Prince's original lead vocals, as well as two outtakes: the instrumental "Feline" and the pop "Miss Understood". As on other associates' albums, Prince falsely gave writing credit to the various band members, though he kept his name on "Nothing Compares 2 U". The tracks were all recorded in a span of a few weeks at the end of 1984 after Prince had finished sessions for Around the World in a Day and just before he started recording for Sheila E.'s album Romance 1600 and his own Parade album.

Album
The album itself is a mix of uptempo funk songs ("High Fashion", "Mutiny"), unconventional soul ballads ("Nothing Compares 2 U", "Desire"), jazz-funk instrumental tracks ("Yes", "Susannah's Pajamas") and New Wave songs ("The Screams of Passion", "River Run Dry"). "The Screams of Passion" was released as the first single from the album. MTV placed the video for the song in light rotation. "High Fashion" was the second single, but no video was made.

The album sold poorly upon its release and has been out of print in any form since the late 1980s in the United States. A compact disc version was printed in Germany in the early 1990s following the success of Sinéad O'Connor's cover version of "Nothing Compares 2 U" which was released that same year and is highly valued among Prince fans and collectors.

Prince often incorporated the track "Mutiny" into the setlist of his Parade Tour in 1986, which occasionally was extended to contain the chorus of his song "Dream Factory" and the snarky chant "St. Paul – punk of the month!" (due to his annoynance of Peterson's decision to depart) as well as on subsequent tours. From 1990 onward, Prince occasionally added "Nothing Compares 2 U" to his tour setlist.

Breakup
After the band performed a single concert, released their self-titled album and only two singles, Peterson felt constricted by Prince's control and opted to pursue his own career. Without a lead singer, Prince lost interest and absorbed most of the remaining members into the expanded Revolution with the exception of Johnson, who went on to join the Flyte Tyme music production team of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

Reformation and fDeluxe
According to St. Paul's website, he fondly remembers his time with the Family and often plays songs from the album in concert. The Family reunited on December 13, 2003, for a single performance for charity along with other acts formerly associated with Prince. On January 26, 2007, the Family announced that it was returning to the music scene with a tour and a recording of new music. Now called fDeluxe, the band reformed in June 2011 and released an album titled Gaslight with four of the five original members performing.

Band members

 * St. Paul – vocals, keyboards
 * Susannah Melvoin – vocals
 * Jellybean Johnson – drums
 * Eric Leeds – saxophone and flute
 * Jerome Benton – background vocals

Live albums

 * Live & Tight (As a Funk Fiends Fix) (2013) (as fDeluxe)

Remix albums

 * Relit (2012) (as fDeluxe)

title: The Family (band)


text:
Scooch

Scooch is a British pop group, comprising performers Natalie Powers, Caroline Barnes, David Ducasse and Russ Spencer.

Scooch represented the United Kingdom in the Eurovision Song Contest 2007 in Helsinki with their song "Flying the Flag (For You)", finishing joint 22nd out of 24 entries after receiving 19 points in the final. The song reached number 5 in the UK Top 40 Singles Chart on 13 May 2007 after having been available for download for two months before that.

Formation
Auditions for an "all-singing, all-dancing pop group" were held between autumn 1997 and spring 1998 in front of the songwriters and producers Mike Stock and Matt Aitken and future manager Steve Crosby. Heidi Range auditioned for the group but was declined after it was revealed she was only 14 years old. The final foursome was formed in October 1998. For the first few months the group were kept low-key and spent time on their image and sound. The group's name comes from a term used to ask someone to move up or along a bench or sofa.

Career
Scooch won a contest on BBC One's Saturday morning show Live & Kicking in 1999. They competed against the boy band Glitterbug, to have their single released. Even though the bands were already formed, this contest was unique as it pre-dates the format of the first music talent reality show to air in the United Kingdom, ITV programme Popstars in 2001.

Their debut single "When My Baby" charted within the Top 40. This prompted a tour supporting the Irish girl band B*Witched, and promoted their second and biggest single "More Than I Needed to Know". It entered the UK Singles Chart at number 5 and went on to see a global release (including Japan, where it hit the top of the record chart).

A promotional support tour for boy band Five provided the group with the foundation for their third single "The Best Is Yet to Come" which charted at number 12 in the UK. The group recorded their debut album "Welcome to the Planet Pop" which was released to Top 20 success in Japan. "More Than I Needed to Know" reached number one in Japan, and due to its popularity there, it was featured in the video game DDRMAX2: Dance Dance Revolution 7thMIX. Scooch performed at every arena in the UK and spent a year as Ambassadors for the Children's Health Authority.

Scooch's fourth single came in the form of the flamenco-inspired "For Sure", which made number 15 in the UK. It was followed by the UK version of their album entitled "Four Sure" which peaked just outside the UK Top 40. The band were dropped by their record label and privately split. The group briefly reformed in January 2004 to perform at G-A-Y's Gone But Not Forgotten night, the success of which prompted the band to do a tour of several gay venues and events around the UK.

Other work
In 2006, Russ Spencer took part in the E4 reality show Boys Will Be Girls, in which he attempted, along with two other ex-boyband members, to pose as a girl-group. Spencer and his bandmates were given four weeks to record a single, make a pop video and play live, all the while posing as females. Spencer has also become a television presenter, presenting TV shows including Make Your Play for ITV. His theatre work includes starring as the Child Catcher in the UK National Tour of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

Caroline Barnes and Natalie Powers have both had various parts on the stage in the West End. Powers has also released two solo singles, "Music to My Heart" and "Unchained Melody", with Almighty Records.

David Ducasse established his own performing arts academy in the North East in 2000 training young performers. The school celebrated its 15th anniversary with a celebratory concert, which was performed in April 2015. He has also worked extensively as a producer, writer and director, and continues to perform. Recent roles include Dandini alongside Emmerdale actress Roxanne Pallet in Cinderella at the Newcastle Theatre Royal for Qdos Entertainment, Francis Fryer in the UK tour of Calamity Jane for Entertainment Unlimited. This Christmas, Ducasse will play the title role in Dick Whittington at Consett Empire.

Barnes and Spencer took part in Series 4 of Channel 4's Coach Trip and performed in Harry Hill's TV Burp as the finale performance on 12 March 2010 episode with the song "Flying the Flag (For You)" and the end of the performance, Harry (dressed as a German in Oktoberfest clothing) gives them a nul point.

Eurovision: Making Your Mind Up
On 28 February 2006, it was announced that Scooch were to reform for a Eurovision Song Contest bid.

The group appeared in the UK selection competition Eurovision: Making Your Mind Up on BBC One on Saturday 17 March 2007, singing and performing their song "Flying the Flag (For You)".

The show began with six songs selected by the BBC, which were reduced to two songs after the public had voted, the four songs with the fewest votes leaving the competition. The remaining two songs went head to head in a "sing-off" and the public voted again for the outright winner.

The show ended in controversy as the final result was announced. Fearne Cotton revealed the winner to be Scooch while, simultaneously in a much louder voice, co-host Terry Wogan announced the winner to be fellow entry Cyndi. After several seconds of confusion for the two acts, the crowd and TV viewers, it was revealed that Scooch were the actual winners of the competition and were to represent the United Kingdom in the Eurovision Song Contest 2007. A confused Cyndi was thanked and hurried off the stage by Cotton so Scooch could perform the winning song once again before the programme ended.

It was later revealed that Scooch received 53% of the public vote, with Cyndi receiving 47%.

Further controversy
Further controversy ensued when the Daily Mirror newspaper reported that the band had used two backing singers offstage as part of their performance on Eurovision: Making Your Mind Up, with the implication that this had given the group an advantage over rival entrants, although this was allowed. This led to false accusations of miming.

Rule 7 of Section 4 of "The Extracts From the Rules for the 2007 Eurovision Song Contest" states that "Artists shall perform live on stage, accompanied by a recorded backing-track which contains no vocals of any kind or any vocal imitations." So as long as the backing singers were live no rules were broken. It is common Eurovision practice to have additional singers offstage. For example, the Swedish entry in 2006 featured backing singers who did not appear onstage until the second half of the song. The rule is that a maximum number of six singers/performers can perform, but there is no rule to say that they must all be shown on stage.

In a video blog, released on Saturday 24 March 2007, singer-turned-TV presenter Charlotte Church claimed that Scooch were not worthy of winning Eurovision: Making Your Mind Up. Church referred to the UK's Eurovision entry, "Flying the Flag (for You)" by Scooch, as "absolute shit" and "embarrassing" for Britain. Church announced that she believed Cyndi should have won the competition instead. Natalie Powers of Scooch hit back saying, "As a mother of a young child myself I find her behaviour and language quite unacceptable. What kind of role model is this for a mum-to-be?" Russ Spencer added, "What a pity the voice of an angel has acquired the mouth of a sewer".

On 28 March 2007, Swedish singer Pandora claimed that the chorus of Scooch's entry for the Eurovision Song Contest, is a "clear cut" case of plagiarism of the chorus in her song "No Regrets" released in 1999. With the help of the Swedish Musicians' Union, she later contacted the EBU in an attempt to have Scooch's entry disqualified from the competition.

In response to the plagiarism claim by Pandora, the BBC issued a statement confirming that Scooch's song is "an original" and the writers "were never aware of Pandora or her songs". The BBC confirmed that there had been no duplication of her work.

On 3 April 2007, the Daily Mirror newspaper apologised to the BBC and EBU for an incorrect story it published stating that the EBU had confirmed that the BBC had breached the EBU's rules during the selection of the UK's Eurovision entry. The flawed story led to rumours of miming by Scooch on the Eurovision: Making Your Mind Up show and led to accusations of competition fixing by the BBC.

Promotion campaign
On 19 March 2007, Scooch appeared on Richard & Judy on Channel 4, revealing that their dance routine for "Flying the Flag (For You)" in the Eurovision Song Contest 2007 in Helsinki will be "camper than ever before" and "may involve strings". On 22 March, they appeared on This Morning on ITV and in the evening on The Graham Norton Show on BBC One, performing shortened versions of the song.

On 17 April, Scooch shot the music video for their Eurovision entry "Flying the Flag (For You)" in London. The video was released on 23 April 2007 and could be 'exclusively' seen on the BBC Eurovision 2007 website from 24 April 2007. On 18 April, it was announced that Scooch had been signed to the Warner Bros. record label. As part of the contract, Scooch recorded several different language versions of "Flying the Flag (For You)", in which the phrases in the song are spoken in French, German, Spanish, Bulgarian and Danish.

Throughout early May 2007, the group appeared on several British television programmes and radio programmes and took part in numerous media interviews to promote the song and themselves further. A "child-friendly" version of the song was performed on CBBC's Blue Peter with several spoken lines changed to reflect the target audience. Changes included "Would you like a snack sir?" instead of "Some salted nuts Sir?" and "Would you like some sweets Sir?" instead of "Would you like something to suck on for landing sir?". The quartet also performed on the National Lottery Draw on BBC One and on the ITV show Loose Women.

Scooch rehearsed in Helsinki for the Eurovision Song Contest Final from 6 to 11 May and altered several parts of their performance numerous times in the process.

Performance in the ESC Final
On the final night, Scooch finished joint 22nd out of 24 entries with 19 points; seven points from Ireland and the maximum twelve points from Malta. This was the first time since 2002 that a UK Eurovision entrant had received the maximum twelve points in the competition; Malta later stated that the twelve points was a protest at how many countries in Eurovision voted for their neighbours.

Although "Flying the Flag (for You)" did not attract major European attention, the song reached number 5 in the UK Singles Chart on 13 May 2007, making it the highest charting UK Eurovision entrant since Katrina and the Waves in 1997 and equalling the group's highest-charting song, "More Than I Needed to Know".

After Eurovision
After Eurovision, Scooch announced that although they were staying together as a group, they had no plans to produce new material as they were too busy. However, they said they would be performing live performances and in the future, they will not rule out releasing more songs. They also stated that three of the individual members of Scooch would be performing in theatrical productions. Spencer would be playing The Child Catcher in the UK Tour of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Barnes would continue her role in The Producers, and Ducasse would be appearing as the lead-character in Jack and the Beanstalk in Newcastle upon Tyne. Powers, however, planned to take time out to look after her son.

Notably, a songwriter of Scooch's entry Morten Schjolin participated in the national selection again in 2008 with Michelle Gayle's entry on 1 March 2008.

In 2010, Caroline and Russ, who have subsequently started a relationship, were competitors on the fourth series of British reality show Coach Trip. They joined the show on day 18, and were evicted on day 36, making them one of the longest lasting couples of the series.

Since 2007, Scooch have continued to tour the UK and Europe, from 2011 performing their new "Scooch do Glee" show.

Whilst not performing in the band David continues his role as principal of the Performers Stage School in the North East, he also is Presenter on Pride World Radio. Natalie is a principal and vocal coach at Allstars Academy performing arts school in Hemel Hempstead, Caroline works in musical theatre as a performer and choreographer and Russ is a presenter and singer currently starring in the new touring musical The Heat Is On!.

In October 2011 it was announced that Scooch would be performing as a support act to The Mission, who were playing a 25th Anniversary concert at London's Brixton Academy. Scooch were included in the line-up alongside goth legends Fields of the Nephilim and their inclusion caused controversy among both sets of fans.

On 30 April 2024, an advert promoting Easyjet's sponsorship of the 2024 Eurovision contest was released on both the official Eurovision and Easyjet YouTube pages. The ad features Scooch performing the song All Aboard the Orange Plane (The Eurovision Song).

title: Scooch


text: Category:Fictional Federal Bureau of Investigation personnel