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Predrag Danilović

Predrag "Saša" Danilović (Предраг "Саша" Даниловић, ; born February 26, 1970), usually referred to in English as Sasha Danilović, is a Serbian professional basketball executive and former player, considered one of the best European shooting guards during the 1990s. Danilović was the EuroLeague Final Four MVP in 1992, was voted Mister Europa Player of the Year in 1998, and was Italian League MVP the same year.

Beginning in 2007, Danilović served as the president of Partizan, the club with which he spent six years as a player, during the 1980s and early 1990s. In 2015, he resigned from the position. On December 15, 2016, Danilović became the president of the Basketball Federation of Serbia (KSS).

Early life and career
Born in Sarajevo to a family of Herzegovinian Serbs (father Milan from the Orašje Zubci village near Trebinje and mother Vuka from the Kukričje village near Bileća), Danilović grew up in the Alipašino polje neighbourhood near the RTV Sarajevo main building. During adolescence, his summers and winters were mostly spent in his parents' respective villages and the town of Trebinje where he had aunts and uncles.

A tall and lanky kid, Danilović excelled in various sports, including football, speed skating, and street basketball. Already well versed in streetball, in 1984, the fourteen-year-old began playing organized basketball in KK Bosna's youth setup under youth coach Mladen "Makso" Ostojić. The player's talent was evident immediately and it didn't take long before he started receiving attention from bigger Yugoslav clubs such as KK Partizan whose assistant coach Duško Vujošević got alerted about the youngster's talents by the team's point guard Željko Obradović who had spotted Danilović during summer 1985 at a Yugoslav intra-republic youth basketball tournament on Mount Zlatibor. Young Danilović played for a select team of players representing SR Bosnia-Herzegovina at the tournament.

By late 1985, Vujošević started courting the fifteen-year-old. Getting Danilović and his parents to agree to a move to Belgrade proved to be the easy part; the real challenge was getting his club KK Bosna to sign off on the transfer. Danilović wasn't under a professional contract with the Sarajevo club, however, according to Yugoslav Basketball Federation (KSJ) rules, being a youth system prospect he needed his club's permission to complete the move. In Danilović's own words: "Bosna club management weren't too keen on me at all while I was there; they had even been planning to loan me out to other Sarajevo-area clubs, which I didn't want at all. But then Vujošević started sniffing around, and they suddenly wanted to keep me. Also, Bosna club president Mirza Delibašić and Partizan vice-president Dragan Kićanović were close friends going back to their playing days, so that created additional awkwardness and the whole thing dragged out for a while".

Since Bosna didn't seem willing to let him go, by summer 1986, Danilović and Partizan decided to act unilaterally as the player moved to Belgrade knowing full well he'd have to sit out a year before taking part in official competitions. The move marked the beginning of a long friendship and professional association between Danilović and Vujošević with the twenty-eight-year-old coach initially acting as mentor to the sixteen-year-old player. By December 1986 Vujošević moved up in the Partizan club hierarchy, becoming head coach in place of the fired Vladislav Lučić while young Danilović trained with the first team as well as individually. Due to the unfortunate administrative situation, Danilović could only practice with Partizan players, which he did vigorously and devotedly up to 7 or 8 hours per day. He stated in later interviews that it wasn't until his arrival at Partizan that he started training seriously. His living arrangements were provided for by the club; they put him up in a room at the JNA Stadium that he shared with youngster teammates Oliver Popović and Popović's brother. Furthermore, in accordance with his parents' wishes, the club ensured he also pursued his full-time secondary education by getting enrolled in the streamlined Petar Drapšin Technical High School. However, unable to make the classes due to long and frequent practices, he soon switched to part-time education at the streamlined touristic high school. Discussing his first days in Belgrade and arrival to a new club, Danilović later said: Simultaneously KK Partizan tried to obtain permission to officially register their new player while Bosna for their part launched a process against the player with KSJ, which ruled in their favour, and young Danilović had another year added to his ban from playing competitive basketball for any age group within Partizan's system.

Faced with new developments over the length of his ban, in the summer of 1987, seventeen-year-old Danilović moved to Cookeville, Tennessee, enrolling at Cookeville High School where he was a basketball, track, and water polo star coming in second place to Daren Matthews at the school meet. However, only seven months later, in February 1988, he went back to Belgrade. Coming back to SFR Yugoslavia from the United States, Danilović resumed practicing with Partizan, though still unable to play in official games with them. His living arrangements also changed; the club moved him to Hotel Putnik in New Belgrade for a short time before eventually putting him up in an apartment in Blok 45 that he also shared with Popović. In summer 1988, Danilović got included in the Yugoslavia under-18 national team that competed at the European Championship for Juniors on home soil in Titov Vrbas and Srbobran. Coached by his mentor Vujošević and playing alongside promising Yugoslav juniors Arijan Komazec, Žan Tabak, Rastko Cvetković, etc., Danilović led the team to the gold medal.

1988–89 season: Korać Cup & Yugoslav Cup winners, losing the Yugoslav league finals
In the summer of 1988, Danilović's two-year ban finally expired and the player was free to suit up for Partizan. Already familiar with the players he had been practicing with for more than a year, the eighteen-year-old joined a roster laden with talent at all positions – twenty-one-year-old point guard Saša Đorđević, twenty-two-year-old forward Žarko Paspalj who could play both the three and four positions, twenty-two-year-old small forward Ivo Nakić, twenty-year-old versatile center Vlade Divac, and his twenty-one-year-old backup Miroslav Pecarski as well as a pair of experienced twenty-eight-year-olds: backup point guard Željko Obradović and backup center Milenko Savović. Starting small forward Goran Grbović (who often also played the shooting guard position) left the club for Oximesa that summer, opening up space for incoming Danilović. Coming off the season in which they made the EuroLeague Final Four (eliminated by Maccabi in the semi-final) and lost to emerging Jugoplastika in the Yugoslav League playoff final series, the young Partizan team was looking to reclaim the domestic league title.

Young Danilović immediately got big minutes at shooting guard, putting in a promising debut campaign, especially excelling in defensive tasks while contributing modest 5.6 points per game offensively (123 points over 21 league appearances). Partizan finished the regular season in first place with a 16–6 record, same as Jugoplastika, but with better basket difference, meaning the Belgrade club would have the home court advantage in the playoffs.

Winning both cup competitions that season – the FIBA Korać Cup and the Yugoslav Cup — came as a great confidence boost for the young squad. The two trophies came in quick succession during mid March 1989 – on Thursday, March 16, Partizan went to Cantù for the first leg of the Korać Cup final away versus Wiwa Vismara losing by 13 points with Danilović getting a starting assignment and recording 10 points, followed by travelling straight to Maribor to play Jugoplastika in the Yugoslav Cup final on Sunday, March 19, and winning 87–74, before returning home for the return leg of the Korać Cup final on home court in Hala sportova on Wednesday, March 22, and winning by 19 to overturn their first leg deficit and take the trophy. Danilović, this time coming off the bench, again contributed with 10 points in the return leg, getting his name on the second major trophy within three days.

Back on the domestic league front, in the playoff semi-final, Partizan easily eliminated crosstown rivals Crvena Zvezda, setting up the final rematch with Jugoplastika that had won that season's EuroLeague in the meantime. The best-of-three final series started in Belgrade, but right away Partizan lost the home court advantage by dropping the opening game 73–74. The series shifted to Split where Jugoplastika won 75–70, beating Partizan to the league championship for the second straight season.

1989–90 season: broken leg
A testament to his brilliant debut season, in summer 1989 Danilović got called up for the Yugoslav national team training camp by head coach Dušan Ivković ahead of EuroBasket 1989, eventually making the final 12-man squad where he played alongside club teammates Divac and Paspalj. Coming back to Partizan later that summer, the roster went through major changes as both Divac and Paspalj left after signing NBA contracts, with Lakers and Spurs, respectively, point guard Đorđević went to serve his mandatory Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) stint thus missing most of the season, while head coach Vujošević left for Spanish club Oximesa from Granada, taking veteran center Savović with him. Reba Ćorković, who had previously coached the club during two separate stints in the mid-1970s and early 1980s—winning two domestic league titles, in 1975–76 and 1980–81 seasons—returned as head coach.

Playing with a depleted roster, the season turned out to be a write-off as it quickly became clear this Partizan squad was no match for tougher Yugoslav clubs. Their deficiencies were especially evident at center as Pecarski who in the absence of Divac got forced into playing long minutes was often outplayed by the opposition's center line. Partizan finished the season in 8th place with a 9–13 record, missing the playoffs – the club's worst league finish in nineteen years. They didn't fare much better in the Yugoslav Cup or FIBA European Cup Winners' Cup, finishing both competitions at the quarterfinal stage. It wasn't much better for Danilović individually, either: after starting the season off strongly with continually improving performances, he suffered an injury (broken leg) that ended his season after appearing in only 11 games, posting 14.3ppg. The injury also kept him out of consideration for the Yugoslavia national team roster at the 1990 World Championship.

1990–91 season: return from injury, another Yugoslav league finals loss
Using his by now well-known penchant for hard work, twenty-year-old Danilović focused on rehabilitating his broken leg to regain game fitness for the start of the 1990–91 season. Meanwhile, the team went through significant changes with head coach Ćorković let go and eventually replaced with Danilović's mentor Vujošević who thus returned to the club after a largely unsuccessful episode in Spain. Another returnee with a sub-par season behind him was old favourite Paspalj, back after only a season with the Spurs. With Partizan's main title contender, reigning European and Yugoslav champions KK Split, going through a coaching change with their head coach Boža Maljković taking Barça's lucrative offer, in addition to their center Dino Rađa making a big money move to Italy, the reinforced Partizan roster seemed poised to finally overcome its biggest rival of the last few years.

With fully recovered shooting guard Danilović confidently holding Partizan's backcourt alongside point guard Saša Đorđević, the team finished the regular season in the second spot with an 18–4 record behind KK Split's 19–3. Now an integral part of the team, Danilović contributed with 13.9 points per game in the league.

In late June 1992, Danilović entered the NBA draft where he was taken in the second round by Golden State Warriors as the 43rd overall pick. He eventually decided to stay in Europe, signing with sports agent Mira Poljo, an established agent with good connections in Italy through Interperformances sports agency, who soon referred him to her colleague Luciano Capicchioni. Danilović eventually signed a lucrative contract with Knorr Bologna paying him approximately $900,000 per season.

Virtus Bologna
Arriving in the Italian city of Bologna and the club Virtus with an aura of the EuroLeague champion and EuroLeague Final Four MVP, big things were expected of 22-year-old Danilović. Earlier that summer, the club went through an ownership change with businessman Alfredo Cazzola acquiring it.

1992–93 season: Italian champions, Euroleague struggles
Coached by Ettore Messina and playing alongside point guard Roberto Brunamonti and center line of Bill Wennington and Augusto Binelli, Danilović led the team to the top of the standings in the regular season with a 24–6 record, ahead of former teammate Saša Đorđević's Philips Milano and reigning league champions Benetton Treviso led by Toni Kukoč, before sweeping through the playoffs without a single loss, overcoming Olimpia Pistoia, Clear Cantù, and finally Kukoč's Treviso in the playoff final series to dominantly win the Italian League title. Dueling with his old nemesis from the Yugoslav League, Danilović got the better of Kukoč this time. Establishing himself as Virtus's undisputed leader, Danilović averaged a combined 23.7 points per game over the course of regular season and playoffs.

In contrast to the domestic league, EuroLeague success proved elusive. The campaign started in early October, but it was the opening group stage game on October 29, 1992, that brought Danilović an uncomfortable away trip to play against Cibona in Zagreb. He thus became the very first Serb to play a competitive game in the newly independent Croatia after the breakup of Yugoslavia while the Yugoslav Wars were in full swing. Rattled by playing in an extremely hostile atmosphere, Danilović had a poor shooting night making 5 of 15 field goals, good for only 12 points as Virtus lost by 16. Talking about the Zagreb experience, later in 1996, Danilović said: "Traveling to the game I assumed there would be issues, but I certainly didn't expect that much hate. Eight thousand people showed up just to insult a Serb. Getting through that game was not easy at all for me and you can tell from my stats. Even their player Franjo Arapović as well as their head coach Aco Petrović were hostile before the game even started wanting to hurl abuse at me, but I managed to put them in their place once we got out on the court. Also I think the two of them realized they had a rematch to play in Bologna in a few months so they didn't want to antagonize me too much". In the rematch on home court in January 1993, inspired Danilović led the way with 9 of 12 field goal shooting and 23 points as Virtus jumped out to an early lead, recording a 40-point win by the end. Barely making it out of the group stage in the last qualifying spot with a 6–6 record meant that in their quarter-final best-of-three series Virtus would face the top-placed team from the other group – formidable Real Madrid squad led by Arvydas Sabonis. Virtus got blown out by Real, losing the first game on home court at PalaDozza by 20 points with Danilović scoring 4 points while five days later in Madrid, Real finished the job with another convincing victory, this time by 21 points.

1993–94 season: Another league title
In summer 1993, coach Messina left the club to take the head coaching position at the Italy national team with returning coach Alberto Bucci coming in as his replacement at Bologna. The club got a new naming-rights sponsor, non-alcoholic Buckler Beer, as it waited to move into its new arena that was still being built. The roster largely remained the same; the only notable player personnel changes were Wennington's return to the NBA to play for the Chicago Bulls, and the arrival of former NBA player Cliff Levingston from PAOK. With Danilović's contributions to the success of Virtus, he, together with his agent Luciano Capicchioni, also began looking at the NBA as an option again, but in the end decided to stay put in Bologna for the time being.

The new season, 1993–94, mostly mirrored the previous one as it quickly became clear that no club was a match for Virtus in the Italian League. Jumping to the top of the standings with five straight wins to open the league season, they never relinquished first place until the end, finishing the regular season with the identical 24–6 record from the previous campaign. Well settled in Italy with monikers like lo Zar (the Tzar) and Zar Freddo (the Cold Tzar) given to him by the Italian sports media due to his prowess and calm-under-pressure demeanor on the court as well as inaccessible nature off it, Danilović continued to lead the team. In December 1993, approximately midway through the season, Virtus moved into its newly built 8,650-seat arena PalaMalaguti (which now seats 11,000), located outside of the city core in Casalecchio di Reno.

Miami Heat
Despite being selected by the Golden State Warriors with the 43rd pick overall in the 1992 NBA draft, Danilović continued playing in Europe for three more seasons before debuting in the National Basketball Association (NBA). In the meantime, during November 1994, his rights had been traded to the Miami Heat as part of a deal that sent 25-year-old Billy Owens to the Heat while the Warriors got 29-year-old center Rony Seikaly. In mid-June 1995, Danilović signed a four-year contract with Miami worth just over US$8 million. To accommodate signing Danilović, the Heat decided to trade Harold Miner to Cleveland in exchange for second-round draft picks and future considerations thus freeing up space under NBA's salary cap.

Several months later, one day before the scheduled start of the regular season, Miami pulled off a blockbuster trade with the Charlotte Hornets, sending the Heat's franchise player Glen Rice along with starting center Matt Geiger and point guard Khalid Reeves to the Hornets in exchange for their star player Alonzo Mourning with reserves Pete Myers and LeRon Ellis also thrown in.

During his two NBA seasons (1995–1997), Danilović averaged 12.8 points, 2.4 rebounds and 2 assists per game.

1995–96 season: making the starting five, wrist injury layoff
Danilović debuted for the Heat on Saturday, November 4, 1995, the opening day of the season, as a starter at the shooting guard position alongside Bimbo Coles, Billy Owens, Kevin Willis, and Alonzo Mourning. He contributed team-high 16 points, helping his team beat the Cleveland Cavaliers 85–71 before getting ejected towards the end of the game due to an altercation with Cleveland's Chris Mills. The incident that saw both players thrown out of the game occurred late in fourth quarter, starting with Mills hitting Danilović with a flying elbow to the chin as Danilović was cutting across the baseline, to which Danilović responded by allowing Mills to catch up before elbowing him back in the side of his head, to which Mills then reacted immediately by punching Danilović with a right hook to the jaw, leaving him with a cut lip that required nine stitches outside his mouth and three more inside. After the game, Danilović said he was just getting back at Mills after being hit, while Mills claimed Danilović had been playing dirty all game long. Both players were subsequently fined and suspended by the league – Mills received a one-game suspension and US$10,000 fine while Danilović also got suspended for one game for retaliation in addition to getting fined US$3,500.

Despite receiving criticism over what some considered overly aggressive play, the Heat opened the season with an 11–3 record using the starting five of Coles, Danilović, Owens, Willis, and Mourning. Just as Danilović began hitting his shooting stride in December 1995, averaging 20 points per game in the four contests between December 6–12, 1995, including season-high 30 points away at Phoenix, his season was disrupted by injury. On December 14, 1995, two days after appearing in the away loss at Golden State during which he scored 15 points before falling down on the floor and aggravating a previous injury sustained during his time in Italy, Danilović got placed on the team's injured list with right wrist issues that looked to be minor initially. Being an injury he had carried for three years already, Danilović was confident it would calm down again with customary therapy. However, when the swelling didn't dissipate within weeks as the attempts to rehabilitate his wrist through therapy failed, it became apparent that the injury was more serious this time, requiring attention of a specialist. Danilović's frustration of being on the sidelines with an injury that showed no signs of improving was evident on December 23, 1995. During halftime of an away game at Charlotte that he watched in street clothes from the bench, he was signing autographs near the tunnel leading to the locker rooms when an unruly fan began verbally abusing him; Danilović reacted by confronting the fan physically and had to be restrained by the Heat executive Randy Pfund. On January 2, 1996, Danilović went in for surgery performed by hand specialist Dr. Ann Ouelette at South Miami Hospital to repair a non-union of the scaphoid bone on his right hand. The surgery was successful, but with his hand in a cast and the recovery process expected to last 3–4 months, there were doubts about whether Danilović's season was over. In early February 1996, with his recovery schedule plan to be back in action for the final month of the regular season, Danilović was allowed to leave the team and go back to visit his family in Italy and FR Yugoslavia. During Danilović's layoff, the Heat completely overhauled their roster including their early season starting lineup. On February 23, 1996, the team made three trades in the same day, bringing in Tim Hardaway and Chris Gatling from Golden State for Bimbo Coles and Kevin Willis, then getting Walt Williams and Tyrone Corbin from Sacramento for Billy Owens and Kevin Gamble, and finally acquiring Tony Smith from Phoenix for Terrence Rencher.

The projections of Danilović coming back from injury at the beginning of April 1996 proved overly optimistic as his return took place on April 21, 1996, at home versus Atlanta, the Heat's last game of the regular season. Very rusty after four months on the sidelines during which he missed 62 games, Danilović, who had in the meantime also lost his spot in Miami's starting five to Rex Chapman, put up modest 8 points during 25 minutes of action off the bench on 3 for 9 shooting from the field that included airballing his first shot back after the injury layoff and coming up well short on his first 3-point shot as Miami lost 92–104. The Heat ended the season with 42–40 record, qualifying for the playoffs as the eight-placed team in the Eastern Conference where they would face the juggernaut Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls team that had lost only 10 games the entire season.

Making his NBA playoffs debut only five days after coming back from months-long injury layoff, Danilović began on the bench as coach Riley continued with Chapman as the starter at shooting guard. The Serb had another poor post-injury outing, scoring only 3 points in 22 minutes on 1 for 3 from the field as Miami got blown out 102–85 by the Bulls. Two days later, game two of the series brought a much improved performance by Danilović who scored team-high 15 points off the bench in 23 minutes; however, the Heat still suffered an even worse blowout, this time by 31 points. The series then shifted to Miami, and the rampant Bulls converted on their first opportunity to end the series, beating the Heat easily for the third time in a row, 112–91, as Danilović, playing on reduced minutes, scored 7 points.

Return to Virtus
In early June 1997, after getting offered a US$6 million net income three-year contract from his old club Virtus, Danilović decided to end his time in the NBA, two years short of completing his 4-year contract, thus forfeiting $4.9 million in NBA salary. On April 23, 1998, Danilović won its second EuroLeague, defeating AEK in Barcelona. While on May 31, Virtus conquered its 14th national title, defeating in Game 5 of the final, Teamsystem Bologna. At twenty seconds from the end of the game, with Fortitudo leading by 4, Danilović scored a three-points shot and at the same time suffered a foul by Dominique Wilkins, completing the so-called "four-point shot". Than Virtus would won the match in the over time. The 1998 final between Virtus and Fortitudo is widely considered as the greatest one in the history of Italian basketball, with two teams from the same city, which were among the best ones in the continent.

In the following season, Virtus won its 7th Italian Cup but lost in the EuroLeague final against Žalgiris of Tyus Edney and was eliminated in the semi-finals for the national championship. Under Cazzola's presidency and thanks to the leaderships of Danilović and coach Messina, the 1990s were considered the "Golden Age" of Virtus, which collected four national titles, two Italian Cups, a Cup Winners' Cup and a EuroLeague, becoming one of the most notable and successful teams in Europe. In October 2000, at the end of the following season, Danilović surprisingly announced his retirement from professional sport.

EuroLeague

 * style="text-align:left;background:#AFE6BA;"|1991–92†
 * style="text-align:left;"|Partizan
 * 19 || ? || 29.8 || .555 || .470 || .747 || 4.5 || 1.6 || 2.2 || .0 || 19.4 || ?
 * style="text-align:left;"|1992–93
 * style="text-align:left;" rowspan=3|Virtus Bologna
 * 15 || ? || 33.8 || .548 || .341 || .747 || 3.6 || 1.1 || 1.7 || .0 || 18.7 || ?
 * style="text-align:left;"|1993–94
 * 14 || ? || 33.0 || .497 || .327 || .843 || 3.1 || 1.6 || 1.4 || .0 || 20.0 || ?
 * style="text-align:left;"|1994–95
 * 17 || ? || 33.8 || .535 || .349 || .807 || 2.8 || 1.6 || 1.9 || .0 || style="background:#CFECEC;"|22.1 || ?
 * style="text-align:left;background:#AFE6BA;"|1997–98†
 * style="text-align:left;" rowspan=2|Virtus Bologna
 * 21 || ? || 36.9 || .467 || .304 || .747 || 3.8 || 3.2 || 1.2 || .0 || 17.5 || ?
 * style="text-align:left;"|1998–99
 * 14 || ? || 35.2 || .500 || .300 || .845 || 1.6 || 1.9 || 1.2 || .0 || 16.9 || ?
 * -class="sortbottom"
 * style="text-align:center;" colspan="2"|Career
 * 100 || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ?
 * style="text-align:left;"|1998–99
 * 14 || ? || 35.2 || .500 || .300 || .845 || 1.6 || 1.9 || 1.2 || .0 || 16.9 || ?
 * -class="sortbottom"
 * style="text-align:center;" colspan="2"|Career
 * 100 || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ?
 * 100 || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ? || ?

National team career
With the senior Yugoslav national basketball team, Danilović won the gold medal at both the 1989 EuroBasket and the 1991 EuroBasket. With the senior FR Yugoslav national basketball team, he won the gold medal at both the 1995 EuroBasket and the 1997 EuroBasket. He was also a member of the silver medal winning FR Yugoslav team at the 1996 Atlanta Summer Olympics.

Titles

 * 🇪🇺 EuroLeague: 2 (with Partizan: 1991–92 and Virtus Bologna: 1997–98)
 * 🇪🇺 Korać Cup: 1 (with Partizan: 1988–89)
 * Yugoslav Cup: 1 (with Partizan: 1988–89, 1991–92)
 * Yugoslav League: 1 (with Partizan: 1991–92)
 * Yugoslav Cup: 1 (with Partizan: 1991–92)
 * 🇮🇹 Italian League: 4 (with Virtus Bologna: 1992–93, 1993–94, 1994–95, 1997–98)
 * 🇮🇹 Italian Cup: 1 (with Virtus Bologna: 1998–99)

Partizan vice-president (2000–2004)
In October 2000, shortly after retiring from playing professionally, Danilović became co-vice president of his old club KK Partizan alongside Žarko Paspalj, Dražen Dalipagić, and Ivica Divac, working under the also newly named club president Vlade Divac. The appointment came about on initiative by the club's about to be deposed president Ivica Dačić during the time of political upheaval in Serbia in the wake of the Slobodan Milošević overthrow. Seeing that various state-owned companies and community property were being taken over in a dubious manner during the power vacuum that resulted from régime change, Dačić (the club's outgoing president and, more importantly, a suddenly marginalized politician who, due to his association with Milošević, was forced to leave his post at the club) saw it prudent to bring the club's two former greats as a safeguard against the same happening to KK Partizan.

Since club president Divac was at the time still an active player in the NBA with Sacramento Kings, while nominal co-vice presidents Paspalj, Dalipagić, and Ivica Divac exhibited little interest in being involved in the club's day-to-day business, Danilović essentially became the main decision-maker at KK Partizan.

Inheriting a head coach, Darko Russo, Danilović let him finish out the season before hiring old mentor and friend Duško Vujošević during summer 2001. Vujošević immediately started producing results, winning the league title in 2001–02, ending KK Budućnost's three-year league championship run. It was the first of nine consecutive league trophies under his command. Though continually cash-strapped, under the command of Danilović, Divac, and sporting director Dragan Todorić, the club instituted a model of bringing up domestic young players from its own youth setup or smaller clubs in Serbia and Montenegro rather than relying on foreign imports. It proved a winner both on the court and business-wise as Partizan sold its best player in regular intervals (usually every summer) and then re-invested that money into the youth system or acquiring talented youngsters from smaller clubs while making sure that squad can function with other players stepping up. Under this model, in summer 2003 Miloš Vujanić was sold to Fortitudo Bologna while the following summer 2004 Nenad Krstić got sold to New Jersey Nets. The club managed to win the domestic league FR Yugoslavia/Serbia-Montenegro league year after year, ensuring a EuroLeague spot, which was essential for its bottom line.

Simultaneously, Danilović was very much against his club joining the regional Adriatic League. However, by 2004, Partizan was essentially forced into the regional competition because its Euroleague spot now depended on competing regionally rather than domestically. This also brought about change in the club's business model as in the summer of 2004 they brought in already established national team players 27-year-old Dejan Milojević from KK Budućnost and 29-year-old Milan Gurović from KK Vojvodina to bolster the squad ahead of the start of competition in Adriatic League. It would prove to be one of Danilović's last orders of business at the club as he soon left KK Partizan.

Partizan president (2007–2015)
In 2007 Danilović returned to KK Partizan, this time as president.

In late May 2007, following a Serbian Basketball League game from the SuperLeague phase, between KK Hemofarm and Partizan at Vršac's Millennium Centar, Danilović assaulted the referee Marko Juras. Dissatisfied over Juras' calls in the game that Partizan lost, thirty-seven-year-old KK Partizan president reportedly followed the twenty-nine-year-old referee into the referees' dressing room and proceeded to knock him to the floor, landing several punches. Juras filed a criminal complaint against Danilović as did the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs. In July 2007, Danilović got suspended by the Serbian Basketball Federation (KSS) from all basketball-related activity for two years, but two months later the punishment was reduced to a probationary period.

On August 24, 2015, he resigned from the president's position, after few years of financial troubles the club was going through.

Basketball Federation of Serbia president (2016–present)
On December 15, 2016, Danilović became the president of the Basketball Federation of Serbia (KSS). On December 14, 2020, he was re-elected.

Personal life
Danilović is married to Svetlana Danilović, an RTS sports reporter. The couple have three children, including Olga, a professional tennis player.

He was also involved with Group Seven, a charity organization founded by seven Serbian basketball players.

On February 11, 2009, Danilović filed a lawsuit against Worldwide Associates (a limited-liability company based in Carmel, Indiana and represented by Rick Suder and George Grkinich) alleging investment fraud connected to $4 million he gave the company to manage. Previously, Grkinich had also been involved with Group Seven.

Stabbing incident
In the early morning hours of Saturday, May 18, 2013, forty-three-year-old Danilović was stabbed during a bar brawl in Belgrade, sustaining injuries to his head, arms, and abdomen, for which he underwent surgery at Belgrade's Urgentni centar.

From the press reports, KK Partizan club president Danilović had been drinking and eating at the Kafanica bar, a kafana-type hospitality establishment in the Košutnjak neighbourhood, together with a party of friends including the bar's owner—Danilović's close friend, Branko "Fido" Filipović —before an altercation broke out around 2:20 am between Filipović and Danilović. Filipović reportedly struck Danilović in the head with an ashtray prompting someone from the bar to call an ambulance, which Danilović refused upon their arrival, sending them away. The fight between the two continued with Filipović now stabbing Danilović in the abdomen, and injured Danilović driving by himself to the hospital. Due to the nature of his injuries, considered "life-threatening", Danilović underwent emergency surgery before being placed in intensive care in stable condition. During the day Danilović was visited at the hospital by the Serbian prime minister Ivica Dačić (incidentally Danilović's personal friend and predecessor at the KK Partizan club president post), deputy prime minister Aleksandar Vučić and sports minister Alisa Marić. Talking to the press afterwards, prime minister Dačić jokingly described the circumstances of Danilović's stabbing as "traditional Serbian quarrel between friends".

On May 20, 2013, after unsuccessfully trying to summon Branko Filipović for questioning, Serbian police issued a warrant for his arrest. Danilović was released from the hospital on May 26, 2013 and was then seen in public at the Belgrade Airport awaiting the arrival of Jovica Stanišić and Franko Simatović, who had been acquitted at the Hague Tribunal. After being on the run for more than two weeks, Filipović was arrested in Belgrade on June 2, 2013. Though initially charging Filipović with "causing severe bodily harm with life-threatening injuries", the Serbian public prosecutor's office later upgraded his charge to "attempted murder".

During the trial, the role of Filipović's fiancée Sanja Ševović (who had been present at the bar the night of the stabbing) came under scrutiny, particularly the exact time she claimed to have left the bar. In February 2014, Filipović was sentenced in the Belgrade Higher Court to $4 1/2$ years in prison for the attempted murder of Danilović. Having already spent nine months in prison detention, Filipović was released on the same occasion thus awaiting the sentence becoming legally-binding upon the completion of the appeals process for him to commence his jail time.

The case was appealed and, in May 2015, the Court of Appeals annulled the lower court sentence, ordering a re-trial. Initially set for late August 2015, the re-trial began in mid-October 2015. Following court dates throughout 2016, 2017, and 2018, in early May 2018 Filipović and the Serbian public prosecutor office reportedly reached an admission of guilt agreement awaiting the Higher Court confirmation. Several weeks later, in late May 2018, the Higher Court confirmed the agreement, sentencing Filipović to $1 1/2$ years in prison in addition to a four-year conditional sentence.

title: Predrag Danilović


text:
The 1 Second Film

The 1 Second Film is an American non-profit collaborative art project which began as a student project by Nirvan Mullick in 2001. Receiving contributions from thousands of people around the world, including many celebrities, the project is currently dormant.

The film is built around one second of animation (composed of 12 large collaborative paintings), and is followed by one hour of credits, listing everyone who signs up (regardless of whether a contribution is made or not). A feature-length "making of" documentary will play alongside the credits.

The project allows people around the world to participate online, and lists everyone who joins the crew as "Special Thanks" in the film credits. The production relies on crowd funding to raise the budget; everyone who donates or raises US$1 or more gets their name listed as a Producer in the film's credits. The production also gives a Publicist credit to crew members who refer at least one friend. The film has over 56,000 crew members from 158 countries.

The 1 Second Film is the flagship production of The Collaboration Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit arts organization formed to create global collaborative art projects that address various social issues. Once finished, any profits raised by The 1 Second Film will be donated to the Global Fund for Women, an independent charity. The online community being formed by The 1 Second Film project will be able to participate in future Collaboration Foundation projects.

In 2016, the director, Nirvan Mullick, posted an update on the project. He stated it had been dormant, being put on the "back burner" in 2012, but he planned to revive it shortly. As of 2024 this has yet to occur. By January 2019, the project's website was offline entirely due to a database corruption.

Production
The title of The 1 Second Film derives from the fact that the animation at the core of the film project is just one second long (24 frames). The animation consists of 12 large frames (9 ft x 5 ft paintings). The frames were painted by hundreds of people during a multi-disciplinary event on March 8, 2001 (International Women's Day) at California Institute of the Arts. The event included live-performers and musicians; people attending the event were invited to help paint the frames of animation. Each frame had an art director that engaged the audience as participants; color design for the animation was selected by Jules Engel. Each of the 12 paintings is filmed twice (on 70 mm film) to create the 24 frames in one second of film.

The one second of animation will be immediately followed by an estimated one hour of end credits. Alongside the credits will be a feature-length documentary on the creation of the artwork.

The film is being crowd-funded by public donations. Donors receive a Producer credit in the film for a minimum of US$1.00 (with no maximum). Producers get listed in order of amount donated.

Project history
The 1 Second Film began as a student project by Nirvan Mullick in 2001 while at California Institute of the Arts. The director set out to create a collaborative art project that would bring his school together, and later expanded the project after the success of the initial event. Seed funds for the animation painting event came from a US$1,500 CalArts Grant, an additional US$3,000 was raised by selling producer credits for donations of US$1 or more. In 2004, after graduating and finishing two other animated short films, the director began fundraising to expand The 1 Second Film project by selling US$1 producer credits on the streets of Los Angeles. After raising enough to buy a video camera, the director began to document the fundraising process to include as part of a documentary about the project. In 2005, after getting several celebrities to donate, the director launched a petition drive along with the help of Stephen Colbert to get the credits of The 1 Second Film listed on the Internet Movie Database. In March 2005, IMDb began listing the credits. The IMDb listing helped the project to grow online. In May 2006, a video of several high-profile celebrities donating to The 1 Second Film was featured on the homepage of YouTube, helping the project raise over US$7,000 in four days. In 2007, the project's first automated website was built to give community profiles to all participants, allowing for the project to scale up. The film's failure to materialize to date has led to speculation of fraud.

IMDb controversy
The director of The 1 Second Film submitted the celebrity producer credits of The 1 Second Film to the Internet Movie Database. After being rejected, the director sent a link to a video of Stephen Colbert requesting his US$11 producer credit be listed on IMDb. IMDb then began to list all of The 1 Second Film's credits, including unknowns who donated US$1 or more to the project online. Thousands of people began to discover the film title under the production credits of the various celebrities involved. The project spread online, attracting donations from around the world. Several celebrities also donated online, including Jonah Hill and Ryan Reynolds. The IMDb listing reached over 3,000 producers. However, due to the high volume of submissions, IMDb replaced all of the film's individual producer credits with a single credit for "Producers of The 1 Second Film." The entire project was later removed from IMDb. Jon Reeves, head of data acquisition at IMDb, released a statement calling the project a "performance art project (rather) than an actual film".

Celebrity producers
A variety of celebrities have donated to become producers of the project. Producers include:

 * Tom Arnold
 * Kevin Bacon
 * Michel Barrette
 * Tyson C. Beckford
 * Ed Begley Jr.
 * Zoë Bell
 * Justin Berfield
 * Selma Blair
 * Jesse Bradford
 * Pierce Brosnan
 * Steve Buscemi
 * Bobby Cannavale
 * Robert Carradine
 * Michael Cera
 * Stephen Colbert
 * Steve Coogan
 * Coolio
 * James Cromwell

 * Alan Cumming
 * Andy Dick
 * Richard Edson
 * Atom Egoyan
 * Rick Fox
 * Patrick Fugit
 * Michel Gondry
 * Seth Green
 * Tom Green
 * Elliott Gould
 * Ben Harper
 * John Hawkes
 * Chad Hurley
 * Spike Jonze
 * Tony Kanal
 * Charlie Kaufman
 * David LaChapelle
 * John Leguizamo
 * Sam Longoria

 * Don McKellar
 * Mark McKinney
 * B. J. Novak
 * Bob Odenkirk
 * Todd Oldham
 * Stacy Peralta
 * Drew Pinsky
 * Bill Pullman
 * Brett Ratner
 * Christina Ricci
 * Jason Ritter
 * Mark Ruffalo
 * Pauly Shore
 * Ron Sparks
 * Kiefer Sutherland
 * Nia Vardalos
 * Kanye West
 * McKenzie Westmore

Contributors also include former YouTube CEO Chad Hurley, YouTube stars including iJustine and Brookers, as well as Kyle MacDonald from One red paperclip.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: The 1 Second Film


text:
File:Kim Possible (promo art).jpg

Licensing
sq:Skeda:KPC.jpg tl:Talaksan:KPC.jpg vi:Tập tin:KPC.jpg

title: File:Kim Possible (promo art).jpg


text:
The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage

The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage is the third album by British singer-songwriter Peter Hammill. It was released on Charisma Records in 1974, during a hiatus in the activities of Hammill's progressive rock band Van der Graaf Generator. Other ex-members of Van der Graaf Generator also perform on the recording.

The cover was designed by Bettina Hohls, ex-member of the psychedelic German rock band Ash Ra Tempel. Hohls also contributed to the cover of Hammill's earlier album Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night.

The lengthy "A Louse is not a Home" is a song about the nature of identity. It was originally written for Van der Graaf Generator's album following Pawn Hearts, an album that because of the band's split never came to be. It features Van der Graaf Generator's ex-members and was (just like "In the Black Room" from the previous album) played live by the group already in mid 1972 (just before the split) and again with the reformed band in 1975. "Forsaken Gardens" (also played live in 1975) and "Red Shift" are two more songs which feature ex-VdGG members. "The Lie (Bernini's Saint Theresa)" partly alludes to the Ecstasy of St Theresa by Bernini. "Red Shift" features Spirit guitarist Randy California on lead guitar. Hammill has often performed the song "Modern" in concert. "Wilhelmina" is written for Guy Evans' newborn baby girl, Tamra.

Personnel

 * Peter Hammill – vocals, electric and acoustic guitars (1, 2, 5, 6), piano (2, 3, 4, 7) , Mellotron (1, 2) , bass guitar (1, 2, 6) , harmonium (1) , oscillator (6)
 * Hugh Banton – Hammond organ, bass pedals and bass guitar (3, 4, 7), Farfisa organ (5) , backing vocals
 * Guy Evans – percussion, drums (4, 5, 7)
 * David Jackson – flute, alto, tenor, and soprano saxophones (4, 5, 7)
 * Randy California – lead guitar (5)

Technical

 * Peter Hammill – recording engineer (Sofa Sound, Sussex)
 * Pat Moran – recording engineer (Rockfield Studios, Monmouth)
 * David Hentschel – mixing (Trident Studios, London)
 * Bettina Hohls – artwork

title: The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage


text: File:WinningTheFuture.jpg

title: File:WinningTheFuture.jpg


text:
Bentwood

Bentwood objects are those made by wetting wood (either by soaking or by steaming), then bending it and letting it harden into curved shapes and patterns.

In furniture making this method is often used in the production of rocking chairs, cafe chairs, and other light furniture. The iconic No. 14 chair by Thonet is a well-known design based on the technique. The process is in widespread use for making casual and informal furniture of all types, particularly seating and table forms. It is also a popular technique in the worldwide production of furniture with frames made of heavy cane, which is commonly imported into European and Western shops.

Bentwood boxes are a traditional item made by the First Nations people of the North American west coast including the Haida, Gitxsan, Tlingit, Tsimshian, Sugpiaq, Unangax, Yup'ik, Inupiaq and Coast Salish. These boxes are generally made out of one piece of wood that is steamed and bent to form a box. Traditional uses of the boxes was varied and included storage of food goods, clothing and for burial. They were often without decoration while others were decorated elaborately. Today many are made for collectors and can be purchased from museums, gift shops and online sites as well as directly commissioned from the artists.

The Aleut or Unangan People of Alaska made hunting visors, called chagudax, out of driftwood using the bentwood method. The visors were used by hunters who were in kayaks. They are said to help keep the sea spray off the face as well as improve hearing. They were often decorated with paints, beads, sea lion whiskers and ivory figurines. Andrew Gronholdt is credited with reviving the art of chagudax carving in the 1980s. Present day Unangan artists create chagudax for ceremonial purposes and offer them for sale to the public as well.

title: Bentwood


text:
User talk:Dking

Hello Dking, thanks for your edits at cult. But please provide more references for what you wrote because the subject is complicated, diverse and controversial. Thanks. Andries 07:30, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Cheers, -Willmcw 15:32, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
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 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

Providing sources
Hey, Dking. As you've already probably noticed, certain editors at the cult articles are pro-cult POV pushers of the first order, masters of a double standard under which even the most preposterous allegation made against Rick Ross or Margaret Singer or the anti-cult movement is given prominence, and yet any statement against cultic groups or any of their leaders is likely to be removed immediately with the claims "that's not sufficiently referenced" and "cite your sources".

When recommendations for 'proper conduct' are being wielded as weapons by blatant hypocrites with ulterior motives, it can be hard to find a reason to take anything they say seriously. Nevertheless, there are certain principles which Wikipedia does hold, and which you should give serious attention to -- even if the pro-cult guerillas are proclaiming them insincerely, with a full intent to break those same rules once it becomes convenient, these are still the principles that are valued by the people who are actually acting on Wikipedia in good faith. Wherever possible, cite your sources so that the people who are acting in good faith can know that your claims are based on research, and the POV-pushers will have to go through even more absurd verbal contortions (which they will) trying to find an excuse to delete them. -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:50, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cults.
Thanks for the link; I'll have to check it out. When you said There's a great check list at one of the Wiccan websites, I assume you're speaking of Isaac Bonewits' Cult Danger Evaluation Frame. And I assume the officer to whom you referred is Kerr Cuchulain, author of the Law Enforcement Guide to Wicca. As for your question what would you do if you had a son or daughter in Rev. Jim Jones' group and found out they were all moving to the jungle in Guiana?, obviously I wouldn't know what was going to happen in advance, so I'd have been somewhat concerned, and sad my child was moving so far away, but I'd respect her/his decision. And be completely destroyed afterward, of course...

Septegram 10:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

 * You have a point, but I think that in such situations a lawyer is a better idea than a deprogrammer; get a restraining order and a psychiatric evaluation rather than kidnapping someone. In some states, I believe kidnapping still carries a death penalty, and it would be ironic to "save" one's child from a "cult," only to be executed for it.
 * Septegram 21:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Social therapy/Fred Newman edits by user BabayDweezil
Hi, Seeking on your opinion/input on BabyDweezil’s most current edits on both the Social Therapy and Fred Newman Wikipages. I added both Rick Ross’*Rick A. Ross Institute for the Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and Movements and Steven Hassan’s Steven Hassan’s Freedom of Mind Resource CenterFreedom of Mind links to their information on Fred Newman and Social therapy et al under “Sites critical of Social Therapy” on the Wiki social therapy page only. As they both are critics of Social Therapy, Fred Newman, et al. Both are also well known and regarded as knowledgeable on the subject of cults, destructive groups, etc. Therefore, It seemed quite reasonable to me to add these two additional links to the existing links of www.ex-iwp.or, www.dennisking.org and www.publiceye.org on the Social therapy page. Baby’s first edit as to add Unverifiable-external-links above the “Sites critical of Social Therapy”. I have no objection to Baby’s BabyDweezil edit but sincerely felt that it belonged above all the external links – “Sites with information on Social Therapy” as well and not just above those critical of Newman because the Social therapy WebPages certainly do not provided all the information which consumers need to make and informed decision. I believe this is especially so as the Social Therapy websites are clear self-published and these websites offer no other point of view than that of Newman and believers in Social Therapy. Additionally, none of these websites mention to potential consumers (therapy patients) that Newman has quite a long history of having sexual relations with his patients and does not find this to be problematic. Nor do the websites mention that Newman and Social Therapy do not adhere to the APA Code of Ethics and that this is a politically based group. Nowhere on any Social Therapy Group WebPages are any of the above mentioned to potential future therapy clients. Since I think that this information is very relevant and pertinent which Newman and the Social Therapy Group is omitting I believe it is certainly fair for this information to be provided by other websites such as ex-iwp, Rick Ross, Steven Hassan, Dennis king, don’t you? After I moved this banner up above all the external links , Baby then proceeded to delete all but publiceye.org from the list of site critical of Newman.  So I do not understand how BabyDweezil BabyDweezil can assert that it is against Wiki policy to omit sites which are critical of Newman/Social therapy yet not see the fault that self-published Social therapy sites are the only resources needed. Personally, I find Baby’s most current statement of “Freedomofmind.com and Rick Ross’ site are both commercial websites primarily designed to sell the services of these self proclaimed experts. Commercial websites are advised against as external links.” To be very hypocritical and self-defeating. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks, GrownUpAndWise 15:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC) 14:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC) GrownUpAndWise

 * Thanks for your response and tireless efforts; they are appreciated. I do believe Cberlet is also on the case. It seems to me, based upon Baby's latest "reasoning" behind deleting the www.ex-iwp.org link, that BabyDweezil is taking too many things very personally these days and I get the impression that he is quite worried about what the public will read on your site, ex-iwp, Rick Ross, and Publiceye.org . Actually, Baby's links gossipy message board, and personal attacks on wikipedia editors. is quite wonderful press and exposure for "us exers"! But if BabyDweezil really wants to give "exers" and this "Underdog" more press, I would suggest this link is better.
 * I don't know....I would think that such a believer in Social Therapy would be able to "perform this differently." I guess that mantra doesn't really work. GrownUpAndWise 02:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, BabyDweezil seems to be hard at work today deleting all the same links which both you and Cberlet keep restoring from the Fred Newman and Social Therapy Wiki pages but also from Lois Holzman and Leorora Fulani Wiki pages, too. I see no grounds for his deletions. Isn’t that considered to be vandalism? GrownUpAndWise 17:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Comments at Talk:Lyndon LaRouche
Please refrain from making comments like this and this. I'm hardly a fan of Lyndon or his supporters - in fact, I find the entire matter to be cultishly bizarre - but Wikipedia has rules for good reasons - they improve the process.

I'm sure you're aware of WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, and WP:AGF. My primary objection, however, to your postings on this talk page is that they violate Talk page guidelines, because they are not about improving the content of the article, but rather about trying to drive an editor away. What they're almost certainly likely to do, of course, is decrease the value of the talk page to other editors, as the page fills up with attacks and reponses and discussions of motivations and so on.

If you really need to comment to another editor about his/her behavior - and that should be limited to failure to comply with Wikipedia rules, not personal motivations - then please post such comments on the editor's user talk page, not on an article talk page.

Thanks. John Broughton |  Talk 01:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry that you feel harassed, but the mechanisms for solving that are clear: Resolving disputes provides an escalating set of processes ending with the Arbitration Committee.  Rather than waste your time with endless arguing and reversions, I suggest you follow the path laid out in that policy.  That might also prevent your patience from wearing out and you then getting into discussions about personal motivations, on article talk pages.

 * And, if you're not aware of it, Conflict of interest pertains to this situation (I see no mention above, so I'm mentioning it here.) John Broughton  |  Talk 03:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I have to agree with John Broughton. I know how frustrating it can be to deal with contentious editing. Please keep cool and refrain from making what could be perceived as personal remarks. Some of us take occasional breaks away from Wikipedia to relax, or edit non-contentious articles. Whatever works. Cheers, -Will Beback · † · 02:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

2 cents
As much as you deserve to be slapped with a boxful of WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, and WP:AGF wet noodles for the obscene comments (and others) cited above, I'll forego the often juvenile Wikipenalties merry-go-round and simply request that you in the future refrain from, either obscenely or prosaically, in any way associating me with the noxious criminal enterprise that is the subject of the article where your comments appeared. And while I'm temporarily acting grown up, I should add that IMHO, you and Berlet are barking up a very wrong tree with the whole "coded discourse hidden meanings" business, and are unwittingly (hopefully) lending credence to the far more noxious aspects of that enterprise by going off on that tangent. You cannot verify the claims, and as such, yuo will lose that debate, and by virtue of losing, lend credibility to aspects of that organization (as well as it propagandistic persecution complex motifs) far beyond its semiotics. I would stick to the many more obvious creepy things. The gibberish, I'm afraid, is simply gibberish. Intentional? I don't know. But its what it appears to me they love having you focus on. Now back to the usual childishness. Cheers. BabyDweezil 01:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Political Cult
Why did you delete all that from Political Cult Dking? JFBurton 08:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

OK then, I see what you mean now. Try and get an administrator to help you solve this issue. JFBurton 19:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Your comment
Thanks. I hope my intervention doesn't provide Dweezil and the other fellow with a justification to remove references to LaRouche and the IWP. I tried to draw a clear line of demarcation between my concerns about Tourish re Militant - re accusations against the group being made which don't seem to be shared by anyone else and broadly supported accusations against IWP/LaRouche etc (indeed, doesn't the IWP accuse the LaRouche movement of being a cult?). I've read some of Tourish's stuff on the web and find it unconvincing and somewhat contrived. (I know T & W are co-authors but I think it's safe to assume that the book's references to Militant are by Tourish and the references to the WRP and its cothinnkers are by Wohforth). I haven't seen much of Wohlforth's writing on the Healyites (who I agree were a political cult) but I'd be curious to see his assessment of his own role and whether he acknowledges and takes responsibility for his abusive behavour towards his members or puts all the blame on Healy. General Idea 00:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

LaRouche
A discussion has been started at Talk:Lyndon LaRouche/medcab06-07. Input by you would be appreciated. G e  o. Talk to me 05:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Coded messages
It's okay, I didn't think it was you. Some LaRouchies have tried adding it several times to this article and others. The point is to try to make the critics look foolish. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Please observe WP:CIV
Per Comments here. Calling others 'spin doctors for human rights-abusing regimes' is not nice and creates an unfriendly working atmosphere. Instead, consider following the path of WP:DR to solve this problem.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:COI concerns
Hi, you should be aware that I'm concerned about your addition of links to your own website in various articles - I've opened discussions here and here that you should feel free to leave comments in. Thanks - RJASE1 Talk  19:45, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I just wanted to follow up - I noticed that you're still editing but you haven't answered any of the concerns. RJASE1 Talk  04:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Mediation of Cults_and_new_religious_movements_in_literature_and_popular_culture
Greetings. Having talked to User:Mr.Z-man, I'd like to offer to assist with mediation. I have a background in the study of religion, though not specializing in NRMs or cults. Please let me know if you'd accept my involvement and any suggestions, too. If involved, I would apprentice in effect w/Zman. Thanks. HG 03:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I've made a series of recommendations and posed questions on the article's talk page. Please comment there, thanks! HG | Talk 21:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello. You haven't replied to some recent comments on the talk page of the article. Do you think you and Jossi can work this out? HG | Talk 21:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

POV deletions at United States v. LaRouche
Dking, you have deleted the properly sourced quote from Von der Heydte over 20 times now since you began deleting on June 12. Your edit summaries and talk page comments are all variations on the theme that you find Von der Heydte's opinion to be "absurd and offensive." You are entitled to have a POV with regard to Von der Heydte's thesis, but your POV is not grounds for deletion under Wikipedia policy. I urge you to stop what has become a pattern of vandalism of the article. The consensus is clearly against you, and as far as policy is concerned, you haven't a leg to stand upon. --Don't lose that number 22:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

 * It's not true that the consensus favors inclusion of the von der Heydte quote. There's no indication that all the editors want it in. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 01:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

An appeal for a change in your behavior
I would like to appeal to you to modify your behavior. It often appears to me that, in your talk page comments, you are using belligerent and deliberately provocative language that seems calculated to intimidate other editors, and has the effect of exacerbating content disputes, rather than helping resolve them. I would particularly like to point out that in WP:CIVIL it warns against "Judgmental tone in edit summaries" and "Calling for bans or blocks." I think that if you would raise your issues on the talk pages, rather than being so quick to start edit wars, you would find that disputes would be much shorter-lived.

I am also concerned that you and your real-life associate Chip Berlet seem determined to promote and even impose a viewpoint at the LaRouche articles that is not consistent with main-stream opinion. While LaRouche has many critics and is considered a conspiracy theorist, etc., you have a particular line that he is an anti-Semitic fascist, despite his public campaigns against anti-Semitism and fascism. You continually cite yourself, and obscure and dubious sources like "In These Times," instead of utilizing the abundant mainstream sources that would not be disputed. It appears that this behavior is intended to use Wikipedia to "make a case," when an encyclopedia is intended merely to inform (see WP:SOAP.) --Don't lose that number 13:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I would like to say that I agree with DLTN's observations, and if you could cool it on the violations of WP:NPOV,WP:CIVIL and WP:SOAP, it would help to prevent these endless and fatiguing content disputes at the LaRouche articles. --NathanDW 15:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Dking, I am concerned that you may be regularly violating policies such as WP:BLP,WP:NPOV,WP:SOAP, WP:CIVIL and WP:COI. I urge you to take stock of your behavior and I would be happy to discuss it with you on our respective talk pages. Continuing policy violations will make the job of editing more stressful and difficult for all concerned. --MaplePorter 06:24, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Dking, you appear to be on some sort of break from editing. However, if you read this, please contact me on my talk page. I have visited numerous controversial discussion pages through article RFCs, and I find greater problems with civility and soapboxing at the LaRouche articles than anywhere else. I think that your conduct is a contributing factor. --Marvin Diode 14:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

RFC/USER discussion concerning you (Dking)
Hello, Dking. Please be aware that a request for comments has been filed concerning your conduct on Wikipedia. The RFC entry can be found by your name in this list, and the actual discussion can be found at Requests for comment/Dking, where you may want to participate. -- Marvin Diode 14:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Please note that I have deleted and delisted the RfC for failing to meet the necessary requirements. El_C 08:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

RfM
A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that does not list you as a party. However, I think that it would be appropriate for you to join the mediation. Please review the request at Requests for mediation/Lyndon LaRouche and related articles, and sign on if you agree to mediate. --MaplePorter 07:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

A request for arbitration has been filed that includes yourself
Please note here. --Marvin Diode 12:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

My Comment about the ArbCom Motion
Hello. I made a comment related to you here. Of course my comment does not condone edit warring or any type of editor misconduct. Instead it recognizes the difficulty that editors encounter while editing controversial articles and Wikipedia's current inability to always give editors needed support in a timely manner. I ask you to continue to look for support and refrain from editing if you find yourself getting too frustrated. Take care, FloNight♥♥♥ 13:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan :) FloNight♥♥♥ 02:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

FYI
Reliable sources/Noticeboard ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 23:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Meow?
?? Boodlesthecat Meow? 14:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

LaRouche conspiracy trials
LaRouche conspiracy trials is currently a featured article candidate. I believe you've made more contributions to it than any other active editor, other than myself, and are thoroughly familiar with the topic. If you'd like to support or oppose the nomination you can comment at Featured article candidates/LaRouche conspiracy trials. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Dennis, please don't keep reverting the article. It may be featured on the front page soon and if there's an edit war then it might not be featured at all. That material has been there a long time. The world hasn't ended. Let's just accept that there are different viewpoints. ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 04:44, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Can you please email me about this? ·:· Will Beback  ·:· 07:11, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

FYI
Be aware that I have opened a thread about your recent edits at WP:ANI. --Leatherstocking (talk) 15:31, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Complaint
FYI:.  Will Beback   talk    04:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

NPOV
I appreciate your honesty about your purpose for involvement with the Lyndon LaRouche topics in Wikipedia. I see that on your userpage you also link to your website which apparently has an anti-LaRouche agenda. WP:NPOV is a core policy. As far as Wikipedia is concerned, we don't make any moral judgements on LaRouche's ideas or actions. We just give him a fair, neutral treatment. NPOV applies to talk page discussion also. If you can't be neutral about LaRouche, then I think that it is better that you don't edit any of the LaRouche-related topics in Wikipedia. Cla68 (talk) 06:30, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Sock puppets
I looked at recent postings on Wikipedia Review made by you and HK. I categorically deny that I am using any sock puppet on Wikipedia; I post under my own name. "LaRouche planet" is almost certainly just that--a person from the LaRouche Planet website. I am not one of the people responsible for that site and would not presume to use its name, although I certainly support their efforts to expose LaRouche's anti-Semitism and cultism.--Dking (talk) 02:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I believe you. Cla68 (talk) 05:06, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:05, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dking


text:
User:Seas

I thought I moved this old stuff?

Right-o!

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22diverse%20and%20complicated%22%20wikipedia

Is there anything else to say about NPOV?

Fact of the day: Terrorism was invented a mere 4 years ago!

if you wanna troll me elsewhere:

 * devart (too l8) seas (you can still report pics, i suppose)

 * Ǉ - pxy

 * fgfx art battle ground. oh. down. yeah. since 4 years. the only good forum. i wrote about that in this essay. it was cool.

 * sophists.org. ddos'd? or the creator just didn't care anymore. or it costed too much. or a little bit o this n a little bit o that. them links are nifty solid archive compressed, the big whoo with 7z these days. google still has "cache" of it after 9 months. wussup wif dat?

 * "There seems to be a general perception that critique means to find fault with. It doesn't mean that at all. It means to critically analyze and respond to something, either positively or negatively, or both"

photosig had lots o good ideas. had. did. where. death. ''you dont wanna know. trust me.''

404 Not Found /go/photos/view was not found on this server. Resin-3.0.14 (built Tue, 05 Jul 2005 11:03:36 PDT)

even without the bugs in the sheena entity, there's those bugs in the shitty illiterate coding process. (sic)

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22suck%20my%20dick%22+inurl:wikipedia.org

Thank you you all-emcompassing impotent knowledge carrier

Fúmate esta

i checked the redirect on this page and the old one was nice:

"Underground hip hop artists are those who interact in one of the four elements of hip hop: MCing, b-boying or break dancing, DJing, and/or graffiti writing. They express their artistic ability for love of the craft, or because they have not yet made it mainstream"

i dont like hiphop. i like ambient. i dont like earbleed either. you kinda figure that from the name. "med motta". måtta.

the swedish words that are un-translatable are o-svensk and lagom. oooh. lagom = måtta. lite si-sådär. inte för mycket.

stereo-types are bad. there are no honourable bargains

fact of the day: wp doesn't support linebreaks! progressRus.

fact of the day: wp doesn't have any kind of BB system. more commonly

"i'd offer you my pulse

give you my breath"

called "forum", or more specifically "forum software to aid in communication". after you've found something to reply to, you hunt for the [edit button], then in the code jungle you again try to find what you were trying to respond to, you write your response, only to see "sorry sir, someone already edited this while you were doing this. do not pass go"

xxxx x x xx x

sir that sounds unprofessional to add

maybe we should slow down for today

anger over nothing

(to be changed)

Old boring stuff, digest at own risk

Wiki:other e.d.

(This is Seas 07:30, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) writing all this yeah, who can't notice where to change the sig, and is sexually attracted to w ord-g ame s)

Proficiency <<< There's no underline? Akh!, My heart...

Search for Seas in Wikipedia <<< Just goes to the page, doesn't search.

Bold italics <<< I wept.

Thx. Bai.

Dude. Worky.

Underlining horizontal size is still bugged in mozilla though: increased/decreased font doesn't effect it.

Ever looked at a bold S? Really? 2 secs ago, I hadn't. Together with italic lower caps f ( times?), I've found my new lover.

Line. ^ New line ^ With some BR'ing ^ With some Br'ing without changing to new line

In other news, €2 is the best net-game ever, €1 is the best game. I know stuff about them. A lot. Would be that proficiency word, which 10 mins ago, I hadn't written. Ever. I store those kinda variables. Would be called psychology, maybe. Mind-science, woo-ooh.

I know stuff about real art too.

And fight club. Not for the gore/humour. I see null of that. Only realism. Just that. Just like in a young poisoner's handbook. I always remember that last word as handbook. Wonder how. Beatles didn't make that song. Shame shame. I only remember things which are relevant, you see, in 4th grade, I had 99% right on this test of the geography of europe, I'm sure it was 400, or nearly 500 fact-things. 3 years later, I remember musing over how I didn't remember shit of it.

Commas don't make me horny. I think using them when describing very, very, very makes the reading comprehension impeeded. And that's what rules should'nt be about, right folks? Brittish should be with 2 t. Britton too. Not brit-land. A ! following caps is stupid, because each letter is like it had a ! next to it, but more. No-one says stupid idiot, right?

''' I need a rahn'dae-wou I need a rahn'dae-wou. Don't know what to do don't know what to do''' Just popped into my head as I was writing that  strike tag. Do ear-blind dream of electric noiz? Blade-runner was based on that novel, if you didn't know. And the guy which concieved it was ill and should o been treated for his  disease, don't need all those blasphemous books corrupting the minds of the innocent ! Repent!, repent ! And you know, 99% of all music info on this site is useless. We all know mtv died in 1990, right? But then it was in the 1980's when we got those superstars, so even  then mentioning hits was stupid because of the media-machine's control. Which that sick guy wrote a lot about. And I really enjoy reading his biography. The rottenlibrary one, as with the 2nd word linkage, is likewise as well-written.

You know it would be nice if there could be several version of an article. Seas, what the fuck are you talking about? Like the classic case of abortion - have a dark and a light switchable parts - one for negative thoughts, one for positive. Hey, could be more than 2 - one that compares them, one how the thoughts were 100 years ago, one from the thinking of other cultures, and so on. (In-line links to other language versions of the wiki would be nice, even if it was just an option) And for really long articles - randomize the locations of them. Randomness is the key to happiness changed me a lot, was a sig on some forum. Sigs are good because they can't be long. I collect those. Compressed wisdom, knowledge from all ages. Kinda easily translate-able too. I like using dashes when the word asks for it, rules when to use dashes or not feels really stupid, and whole discussions on that fucking ' annoys me to hell. S's are equally evil then. S's's's's's's. <<< Betcha don't dare to ever write that. Slave.

title: User:Seas


text:
User talk:Masyk

Andrew Masyk was born in Kiev, Ukraine.

Graduated from Kiev Taras Shevchenko University as International Business Manager.

In November 2004 moved to New-York, USA.

 * Andrew Masyk Home Page

title: User talk:Masyk


text:
Frederick Robe

Major-General Frederick Holt Robe CB (1801 – 4 April 1871) was the fourth Governor of South Australia, from 25 October 1845 to 2 August 1848.

Early career
Frederick Holt Robe entered the Royal Staff Corps as an ensign in 1817, following his father, Sir William Robe who was a colonel in the Royal Artillery. He was promoted first lieutenant in 1825, transferred to the 84th Foot in 1827, transferred to the 87th Foot as Captain in 1833, brevetted major in 1841, and promoted major in 1846. He fought in the Syrian campaign of 1840–1, and was military secretary in Mauritius and Gibraltar.

Governor of South Australia
Robe was appointed as Governor of South Australia, being sworn in on 25 October 1845. He was not popular as the governor, as he attempted to carry out his understanding of the British government's requirement to charge royalties on the mineral wealth of the province. This was rejected by the elected members of the South Australian Legislative Council as a breach of faith. There was also trouble over the question of State aid to religion, which Robe favoured, but which was strongly opposed. After requesting to be relieved of the post of governor, he was posted again to Mauritius as deputy quartermaster. He was honourable and confident in his convictions, but too conservative for the fledgling colony of South Australia. He returned to England in 1848.

Aboriginal Witnesses Act
Between 1846 and 1848, Robe was responsible for the enactment of a series ordinances and amendments first enacted by his predecessor lieutenant Governor George Grey, in 1844. Entitled the Aboriginal Witnesses Act. The act was established "To facilitate the admission of the unsworn testimony of Aboriginal inhabitants of South Australia and parts adjacent". While its stated aim was to make provisions for unsworn testimony by "uncivilised people" to be admissible in court, the act made it so that the court could not base the conviction of a White man on the testimony of an Aboriginal witness alone. The act also made Aboriginal testimony inadmissible in trials that carried the penalty of death.

Effectively, the act created a situation where settler solidarity and the law of evidence ensured that the murder and massacre of Aboriginal Australians by European colonisers could not be tried solely on the evidence of Aboriginal witnesses.

Other roles
Robe was inaugural president of the Savings Bank of South Australia (founded 1848).

Promotions and honours
Robe was brevetted lieutenant colonel in 1847, promoted lieutenant colonel in 1853, brevetted colonel in 1854, and promoted major general in 1862. He was appointed Colonel of the 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment from 1869 until his death.

He was appointed Companion of the Order of the Bath (CB) in 1848.

Death and legacy
He died unmarried in Kensington, London, on 4 April 1871.

The town of Robe, South Australia is named after him.

title: Frederick Robe


text:
Unorganized Kenora District

Unorganized Kenora District is an unorganized area in northwestern Ontario, Canada, in Kenora District. Constituting 98.39 percent of the district's land area, yet only 10.93 percent of its population, it is essentially the remainder of the district's territory after all incorporated cities, municipalities, townships, Indian reserves, and Indian settlements have been excluded. It is by far the largest municipal-equivalent level census division in Ontario, covering over 35 percent of the entire provincial land area, yet only about 0.05 percent of the population of Ontario.

Local services boards

 * Greater Oxdrift
 * Melgund
 * Minaki
 * Red Lake Road
 * Redditt
 * Round Lake
 * Wabigoon

Demographics
Population trend:
 * Population in 2011: 7,031
 * Population in 2006: 7,041
 * Population in 2001: 7,631
 * Population in 1996: 10,269 (or 7,981 when adjusted to 2001 boundaries)
 * Population in 1991: 9,723

title: Unorganized Kenora District


text:
Talk:Brothers & Sisters (song)

Untitled
Andrew T:

Hi Madchester.

The song is called "Brothers & Sisters", not "Brothers and Sisters".

EP/single
2002 re-release refers to this as an EP and http://www.coldplay.com/disco.php says nothing about whether it's an EP or a single. -- I need a name (talk) 14:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Brothers & Sisters (song). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100205150225/http://www.coldplaying.com/page.php?file=%2Fhtml%2Fdiscography%2Fbrothersandsisters.htm to http://www.coldplaying.com/page.php?file=%2Fhtml%2Fdiscography%2Fbrothersandsisters.htm

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:19, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Brothers & Sisters (song)


text:
Rudraige mac Dela

Rudraige (modern spelling: Ruadhraighe), son of Dela, of the Fir Bolg was the legendary second High King of Ireland, succeeding his brother Sláine.

When the Fir Bolg invaded Ireland the five sons of Dela divided the island amongst themselves. Rudraige landed at Tracht Rudraige (Dundrum Bay, County Down) and took Ulster. He and his brother Genann led the portion of the Fir Bolg known as the Fir Domnann, a historical people who were possibly related to the Dumnonii known from Britain and Gaul.

His wife was Liber. After Sláine's death, Rudraige became High King for two years, until he died at the Brú na Bóinne (Newgrange). He was succeeded by his brothers Gann and Genann.

Rudraige was the name of two other figures from Irish mythology, one a son of Partholón, who led the first settlement of Ireland after the Flood, the other a Milesian High King of the 2nd or 3rd century BC. All three were associated with the province of Ulster, and it seems likely that they were all derived from an ancestor-deity of the Ulaid.

title: Rudraige mac Dela


text:
Talk:Romila Thapar

Romila Thapar is a Marxist historian.
[Copied from User talk:Kautilya3]

I gave verified link to support my modification and I can give more such links that clearly shows that Romila Thapar is Marxist historian. In fact she confessed that history not only depends on facts but also depends on historians ideology. Her way of writing history clearly shows that she believes in Marxist histography and she called her critics as right wing Hindutva historian which means that she considers herself as a Marxist historian. Birat Roy007 (talk) 12:06, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Newspapers are only reliable for news, as per WP:NEWSORG.
 * But the more important point is, why didn't you open a talk page discussion when you were first reverted by ? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:23, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Since I was pinged;, you need to read WP:DUE and WP:NOR very carefully. What you personally know to be true about Thapar is quite irrelevant; the only things we say in Wikipedia's voice are things which the preponderance of reliable sources agree upon. That is what you need to demonstrate, in this case. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:02, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

 * please explain your revert. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:16, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Adding recent JNU Professor Emeritus Status Controversy
There was a recent controversy on Thapar's Professor Emeritus status (~ September '19). Here is a source. I am not sure whether this should be added to the biography now. can you please suggest? AyushMukherjee376 (talk) 04:50, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * What we need really is a paragraph or section on her post-retirement activities. If we have such a paragraph, then this can go in there. But just mentioning something that hits the headlines would be out of place. It would fall into the WP:NOTNEWS category. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:49, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I’ve added that section by mentioning some developments around it. I named that section as ‘Public Disagreement’ involving appointment to library of congress and JNU CV thing. There’s enough and multiple coverage in independent source regarding this. So, IMHO, this’s not case of WP:NOTNEWS.— Harshil want to talk? 14:07, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed. This tidbit can be added there too, I suppose. But the whole section is not a biographical section. It is chasing the headlines. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:01, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * It can be edited afterwards and moved to another section per consensus. But I think that this was not regular coverage, I tried to enlist as many as reference possible including both sides. I added there because her appointment to library also had caused some controversy. — Harshil want to talk? 15:20, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I have concerns that that section fails WP:NOTNEWS. There's only allegations there; there's no substance. If there's any sources that treat these incidents as part of larger trends related to her legacy as an academic (for instance, as part of a conflict between the current Indian government and mainstream historians) it would be a different matter; this he said she stuff is not encyclopedic, it's the stuff of online newspapers. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:24, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I suggest removing it. If it becomes an issue, i.e., something that is discussed in broader sources as something that fits into a pattern of harassment of Thapar, then, perhaps, it could be included. As written, it is not at all clear if this is just a bureaucratic mess or something targeted at Thapar. Including it here makes it seem like the former and that inclusion itself is likely WP:OR. I'll let Harshill69 do the honors but it should go. --regentspark (comment) 17:28, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I think it already has wider coverage. There are many opeds written in reliable sources like the hindu, telegraph India, toi and others in support/oppose of this step. Even Romila gave interviews to multiple channels and attacked administrative people for this. — Harshil want to talk? 17:54, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , I do not understand this proposed section is different from the "Appointment to Library of Congress" section already present. Can you explain how something is deemed to become an issue as it relates to biographies? AyushMukherjee376 (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The library of congress section says that the petition targeted Thapar. In the JNU CV section, at least from what's written here, it is unclear whether this was targeting Thapar or whether it was a bureaucratic mishap. If there are more sources as Harshill69 says, and they are reliable enough to show that this wasn't just a bureaucratic mixup, then, it should be included as long as the sources are clear that Thapar was targeted. (I'm just going by what I'm seeing in our article).--regentspark (comment) 18:35, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , I understand what you are saying. If I remember correctly, there are letters by three JNU-related non-news sources on this issue -- The JNU Teachers' Association, the administration and Thapar herself. As Harshil169 says, there are also secondary sources (Hindu, Telegraph India and Times of India) which cover these, both as op-eds and as news. To confirm, would a collection of these sources suffice? If so, I shall try writing a draft and adding it here before posting it on the main page. -- ayush   (reach out)  07:57, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

You don’t need anyone’s permission for it. Be bold, go ahead and post this is in the article. If it’ll be inappropriate then editors may remove it. — Harshil want to talk? 08:00, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * User:Harshil169 if is going to post some controversial content into the article then it is a good idea to post the content on the talk page first and seek feedback WP:CONSENSUS. Our WP:BLP policies need strict adherence. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  08:27, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

 * This does merit a mention in a couple of lines or so, going by the levels of coverage across reliable sources but I am not highly acquainted with the specifics and thus, not in a position to rewrite. ∯ WBG converse 10:59, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * FWIW, this article is quite shabby and in need of a major re-write; so better spend the editorial resources over more vital areas ...... ∯ WBG converse 11:00, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Marxist
We have enough reliable sources which address Romila Thapar as leftist and Marxist.

LearnIndology (talk) 17:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

 * There's several problems here. First, whether we describe Thapar as a Marxist depends not only on whether sources label her as such, but whether the preponderance of sources label her as such, and I'm just not seeing evidence for that; the vast majority of sources simply describe her as a historian; even among the sources here, only a couple are directly using the label Marxist. Second, even those sources that are, are referring to Marxist historiography, not Marxism as such. Such content may be worth covering, but it needs to make the distinction, else it is original research. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:18, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

 * WP:POINTy addition; see Talk:Koenraad Elst. And WP:OR an WP:TENDENTIOUS misrepresentation of sources:
 * Wagle: Not
 * but
 * Zhang Shijun:
 * When did Romila Thapar become a "he"? Or change her name to "Tharpar"? As usual, crappy sources and biased interpretations. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  18:38, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Romila Thapar's major contribution is that of bringing social history analysis to bear on the Aryan expansion down the Gangetic Plain in the mid-first-millennium BCE. Aryan society changed from lineage-based groups to rudimentary forms of state formation with social stratification (caste). She has also mined the Sanskrit epics for supportive gems.  She is not a Marxist historian (such as Irfan Habib or more relevantly DD Kosambi), nor is she a nationalist (such as Raychauduri, Datta or Mazumdar (of Advanced History of India fame)) nor cultural (e.g Basham), or archaeological (e.g. Gordon Childe) or colonial (e.g. Vincent Smith).  She is a social historian.  If I find some decent sources, I'll add them.     Fowler&fowler  «Talk»  19:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * When did Romila Thapar become a "he"? Or change her name to "Tharpar"? As usual, crappy sources and biased interpretations. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  18:38, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Romila Thapar's major contribution is that of bringing social history analysis to bear on the Aryan expansion down the Gangetic Plain in the mid-first-millennium BCE. Aryan society changed from lineage-based groups to rudimentary forms of state formation with social stratification (caste). She has also mined the Sanskrit epics for supportive gems.  She is not a Marxist historian (such as Irfan Habib or more relevantly DD Kosambi), nor is she a nationalist (such as Raychauduri, Datta or Mazumdar (of Advanced History of India fame)) nor cultural (e.g Basham), or archaeological (e.g. Gordon Childe) or colonial (e.g. Vincent Smith).  She is a social historian.  If I find some decent sources, I'll add them.     Fowler&fowler  «Talk»  19:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Romila Thapar's major contribution is that of bringing social history analysis to bear on the Aryan expansion down the Gangetic Plain in the mid-first-millennium BCE. Aryan society changed from lineage-based groups to rudimentary forms of state formation with social stratification (caste). She has also mined the Sanskrit epics for supportive gems.  She is not a Marxist historian (such as Irfan Habib or more relevantly DD Kosambi), nor is she a nationalist (such as Raychauduri, Datta or Mazumdar (of Advanced History of India fame)) nor cultural (e.g Basham), or archaeological (e.g. Gordon Childe) or colonial (e.g. Vincent Smith).  She is a social historian.  If I find some decent sources, I'll add them.     Fowler&fowler  «Talk»  19:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment's and. I have added more refs, that directly calls Thapar as Marxist. I hope these many sources are enough. LearnIndology (talk) 11:40, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:LEAD summarizes the article; simply calling her a Marxist won't suffice. First explain, in the body of the article, how she is a Marxist; what that means in how she is doing historiography, and what it does not mean (is she calling for a communist revolution? A dictature of the proletariat?); and how that is relevant, other than for Hindutva-proponents as a pejorative label.
 * To illustrate the qeustion "What does 'Marxism' mean in how she's doing historiography," see this quote from Santhosh Suradkar, Romila Thapar: An Interdisciplinary Dialogue:
 * That sounds more like Critical sociology, the Frankfurter Schule, Michel Foucault, and the hermeneutics of suspicion, and not like a radical revolutionary. That's the kind of context and background one would like to be informed about, not a simple label. I'll bet it's this critical attitude, coveniently shorthanded as "Marxist," that's not appreciated by some people, as it lays bare the shallowness of Hindutva-thought. See also Shaj Mohan and Divya Dwivedi (sept 1, 2019), Romila Thapar: The Modern Among Historians, thewire.in:
 * Quite obvious, isn't it? See also here and here to understand why the label "Marxist" is being insisted upon. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  15:43, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Regarding this addition, which again uses "Marxist" as a label without providing context, it's quite obvious that there is no WP:CONSENSUS for such an addition. See my comments above, and also Vanamonde93's F&f's comments, and F&f's edit-summaries. See also previous discussions about harassment of Romila Thapar. The term "accused" is quite telling: accused of what, by whom, for which crime? The term is referenced with Santhosh Suradkar; he's definitely not "accusing" Thapar of 'putting a Marxist framework into practice'; he has praised her for her interdisciplinary approach, "putting a Marxist framework into practice." See the extensive quote given above. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  12:33, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Some more on the label "Marxist": Thapar herself, ThePrint, and the Washington Post. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  19:46, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * And regarding "Thapar has been described as a left-leaning, Marxist historian.":
 * Sylvie Guichard:
 * Amar Maini:
 * This sounds more like
 * Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  11:20, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Amar Maini:
 * This sounds more like
 * Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  11:20, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  11:20, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  11:20, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, Marxist historiography simply means "history from the below", i.e., history studying the society at large, rather than just the kings, queens and generals. When I first read Thapar's [Penguin] History of India, Vol. 1, I was wonderstruck to learn that so much information about the society in the historical past was available. I had never been told any of it in school. (The NCERT books weren't widely used then.)

Incidentally, Thapar wrote that she learnt this from R. S. Sharma. When she was doing her PhD at the SOAS, her supervisor (A. L. Basham) told her to study Sharma closely because he had "a different approach". Sharma's PhD was on the Sudras in Ancient India, which is also an awesome book. But Thapar has easily surpassed Sharma in her later career. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:53, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Life
What is her education/qualification? Is she married? Does she have children? What is her political affiliation? What Indian laguages can she speak like Prakrit/Pali/Kannada/Bojpuri/Sanskrit?. Can someone with info add them please? ~rAGU (talk)

Yes, that's what you need to know about an academic nearly 90 years old. NRPanikker (talk) 18:02, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree with talk that such information is certainly important. To say that simply as a result of her profession or religion, such information is not fit for wikipedia has no precedent and should be soundly rebuked. MRpcubed1145 (talk) 17:55, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Most of the information is available in this book. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:41, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Criticism Section
Can I add a criticism section to the article? She seems controversial, and there is a lot of criticism of her. Indologist Edwin Bryant describes how she has been heavily criticized by other scholars.Shakespeare143 (talk) 07:12, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Criticism by scholars... or by unqualified fringe authors? The latter is not notable and would not deserve a criticism section if that is all that you can bring to the table. Chariotrider555 (talk) 12:51, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Controversial with Hindutva-proponents indeed. They don't like critical people who dismantle their myths. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  16:33, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Now we have edit-warring which has descended to childish name-calling, such as labelling Romila Thapar a "self-styled" Indian historian. NRPanikker (talk) 17:36, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I believe criticism from historical scholars and professors might be included under a separate criticism section, but as mentioned above, copying text from TOI or some fringe self called historian or you tuber is a strict no no. Scholarly criticism is welcome by all means, but if the whole point of criticism is ' since she is a so called Marxist historian, she MUST be wrong' or ' you have to trust myths and fallacies , just because its our culture and we know the best about it' is just hogwash and pathetic.

Editors, I request a move to make this page 'protected' to save it from frivolous and frothing edits from the lunatic brigade
 * Suksane (talk) 18:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)Suksane

Marxist or left-leaning
An editor has been insistently adding "Marxist" or "left-leaning" despite my protests that they no do so, especially to a longstanding BLP lead. Pinging some regulars and admins:  Fowler&fowler  «Talk»  13:45, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

 * I have reverted their latest edit. The last t/p discussion on the issue, which happened about two years ago, has an obvious consensus. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:59, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Romila Thapar


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text:
Lyn Macdonald

Lyn Macdonald, (31 May 1929 – 1 March 2021) was a British military historian, one of relatively few women in the field. Macdonald was best known for a series of books on the First World War that draw on first hand accounts of surviving veterans.

Life
Macdonald lived near Cambridge, England, and worked as a BBC radio producer until 1973, when she began working on a documentary with the Old Comrades Association of the 13th (Service) Battalion of the Rifle Brigade, who were visiting the battlefields of the Western Front. The first of her influential books took its title, They Called It Passchendaele, from a poem by Siegfried Sassoon. Other works included Somme. In 1988, she led a party of veterans to the Western Front, accompanied by Sebastian Faulks, who was inspired by the experience to write his novel Birdsong.

Macdonald bequeathed an archive of about 600 recordings of interviews with veterans of the First World War to the Imperial War Museum.

Works

 * How to be a Supercook and Work as Well (1976).
 * They Called It Passchendaele (1978).
 * French Cooking Without Tears (1979).
 * The Roses of No Man's Land (1980).
 * Somme (1983), a history of the legendary and horrifying battle that has haunted the minds of succeeding generations.
 * 1914: The Days of Hope (1987).
 * 1914-1918: Voices and Images of the Great War (1988).
 * 1915: The Death of Innocence (1993).
 * To the Last Man: Spring 1918 (1998).
 * Ordeal By Fire: Witnesses to the Great War (editor, 2001).
 * At the Going Down of the Sun: 365 Soldiers from the Great War (Lannoo, Tielt., 2001), co-writer with Ian Connerty, Sir Martin Gilbert, Peter Hart and Nigel Steel.

title: Lyn Macdonald