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Mombi

Mombi is a fictional character in L. Frank Baum's classic children's series of Oz Books. She is the most significant antagonist in the second Oz book The Marvelous Land of Oz (1904), and is alluded to in other works. Mombi plays a very important role in the fictional history of Oz.

The character was originally presented as a lowly hag who had enchanted Princess Ozma in order to prevent her from ascending to the throne. Later in the series, Baum specified that she had once conquered and ruled the Gillikin Country, as the Wicked Witch of the North, only to be deposed by the Good Witch of the North.

Furthermore, Mombi had enslaved Ozma's father (King Pastoria) and grandfather, thereby removing the Royal Family of Oz, and enabling herself and the Wicked Witches of the East, West and South to conquer and divide the land between them.

After forcing her to disenchant Princess Ozma, Glinda the Good Witch of the South made Mombi drink a powerful draught that stripped the old witch of all her magic powers.

Mombi made no further appearances in Baum's books. In Ruth Plumly Thompson's The Lost King of Oz (1925), the witch raises havoc once again, and at the end of the book, in a rare act of Ozite capital punishment, Mombi is ruthlessly doused with water and melts away like the Wicked Witch of the West, so that nothing is left of her but her buckled shoes. Baum never said that all witches in Oz would die upon contact with water, but Ruth Plumly Thompson and several subsequent writers such as Rachel Payes had made that conclusion.

Mombi is apparently resurrected by Jack Pumpkinhead in Lucky Bucky in Oz (1942).

The Marvelous Land of Oz
After arriving in Oz and proclaiming himself as the new dominant ruler, the Wizard made arrangements in three secret visits to an irrelevant witch known as simply Mombi. She lived in Oz's northern quadrant and practiced dark magic, casting curses and spells upon her enemies. Since the complex fall of Oz's deceased former King Pastoria, the Wizard took the King's baby daughter Princess Ozma, and handed her over to the old witch in secrecy. Thus, leaving no heir to Oz's imperial throne. Upon receiving her, Mombi kept the infant hidden away. To disguise her from ever being recognized by the people in Oz, Mombi cleverly transformed the princess into a young boy she nicknamed Tip. (transformations seemed to be Mombi's forte). Having been the jailor of Ozma's father and grandfather before, Mombi treated Tip as a slave, too, as he grew up.

Mombi's first match was the Good Witch of the North. After freeing the Gillikins from Mombi's clutches, the Good Witch forbade any other witch to live in her domain. Even after her defeat, Mombi was still a survivor. She made herself appear to be a lowly wizardess and settled down on a quiet farmland which included corn fields, a four-horned cow, and some pigs.

One day Mombi visited a Crooked Magician called Dr. Nikidik, and purchased the Powder of Life from him, which she used to bring Jack Pumpkinhead to life. Tip created Jack to scare her, so as punishment Mombi brewed a potion that would turn Tip into a marble statue. That night, Tip ran away and took Jack with him. When General Jinjur's Army of Revolt conquered the Emerald City, Jinjur feared that the deposed Scarecrow would return with the Tin Woodman to take back the throne of the kingdom. Jinjur asked Mombi for help and she agreed, hoping to recapture Tip, who had joined the Scarecrow.

After leaving the Gillikin Country to join forces with Jinjur, the new self-appointed Queen of Oz, Mombi was no longer under the jurisdiction of the Good Witch of the North. Scarecrow went to Glinda to ask for help in regaining the throne, but she refused and explained that Princess Ozma was the rightful ruler. She then set out to learn the fate of Pastoria's daughter.

Mombi tried to trick and escape from Glinda with a series of transformations ranging from the maid Jellia Jamb to a Rose and ultimately a Griffin, but the former Wicked Witch of the North was no match for the Good Witch of the South. Indeed, Glinda turned out to be an even tougher adversary than the Good Witch of the North. She captured Mombi and forced her to reveal the princess's location. Mombi restored Ozma to her proper form, and Glinda took away Mombi's magical powers. Just before being disenchanted, Tip promised to provide for Mombi in her old age, despite her fiendish actions. Baum wrote Ozma as a gentle, forgiving and compassionate individual; not a vengeful ruler.

Later books
In Ruth Plumly Thompson's The Lost King of Oz, Dorothy suggests that Mombi be put out with a pail of water for her misdeeds, and Princess Ozma herself commands it. L. Frank Baum never suggested that water could destroy all witches, but Thompson certainly surmised as much. Moreover, L. Frank Baum's original Dorothy and Ozma would never have had anyone executed; Dorothy was unwilling to kill the Wicked Witch of the West even for the sake of seeing Aunt Em and Uncle Henry in Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, while Ozma was unwilling to destroy her enemies even when they were on the verge of conquering her entire land in Baum's The Emerald City of Oz. Above all, the events in Thompson's book directly contradict Baum's specification that Mombi would be provided for by Ozma herself in her old age.

"Mombi" appears in Lucky Bucky in Oz, when Jack Pumpkinhead's magic painting of the old witch comes off a wall and causes trouble.

March Laumer reversed her "death" from Ruth Plumly Thompson's book, regenerating and reforming the witch into a harmless character in his revisionist A Farewell to Oz. Similarly, in Oziana magazine, the official fiction-journal of the International Wizard of Oz Club, issue #38, the story "Executive Decisions," by David Tai, reconciles the account in The Lost King of Oz with the Ozma that Baum described, demonstrating that, in fact, she did not have Mombi executed as everyone was led to believe.

Mombi and Tip make a cameo appearance in Gregory Maguire's second Oz novel, Son of a Witch (though only Tip is named). In Maguire's fourth Oz novel, Out of Oz, Mombi (spelled "Mombey") plays a more significant role. In this book, Mombey has become the ruler of Munchkinland, which is at war with the rest of "Loyal Oz"; the Munchkinland armies are under the command of General Jinjuria. Maguire presents Mombey as a powerful woman who changes her appearance every day, probably a reference to the film Return to Oz, in which Mombi is conflated with the head-swapping Evite Princess Langwidere. Tip tells Rain (granddaughter of Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West) that Mombey traveled across the sands and learned how to change the shape of her head and her body from "some second-rate duchess" in "one of the duchy principalities, I think it was Ev". As in The Marvelous Land of Oz, Mombi/Mombey has enchanted the Princess Ozma into the form of the boy Tip; however, in Maguire's Oz the enchantment lasts for nearly a century. Mombey kidnaps Liir (son of Elphaba and father of Rain) and transforms him into an elephant. Later, Mombey's forces attack the Emerald City with the aid of dragons. At a subsequent conference for terms of surrender, Mombey uses a spell called "To Call the Lost Forward" in order to return Liir to his proper form; the spell inadvertently also returns Tip to his true form (Ozma) and restores Rain's natural green skin. Although the circumstances of the spell are quite different from those in The Marvelous Land of Oz, details of it closely resemble Baum's description and the illustration of Mombi's spell by John R. Neill.

Film and television
The Wicked Witch of the West is given the similar name, "Momba" in the 1910 silent film The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, but is based on that character, not Mombi. A witch named Mombi also appears in the 1914 film His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz. The character resembles W. W. Denslow's depiction of the Wicked Witch of the West (complete with eyepatch, pigtails and umbrella), and her role in the story is based on the Wicked Witch of the West in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and inspired the witch Blinkie in the novel The Scarecrow of Oz.

Mombi appears in the 1969 feature film The Wonderful Land of Oz, played by Zisca, whose real name is Franzisca Baum (no relation to L. Frank Baum). She sings the eerie song, "The Powder of Life," proudly proclaiming herself as a witch and not minding at all that Tip has called her one. Her appearance is largely modeled on Margaret Hamilton's in The Wizard of Oz (1939), but with her hair more down, dark circles under her eyes, a paler appearance and a more strained gait. There is purple highlighting in her clothes, emphasizing her Gillikin origins, in keeping with Baum's books.

Mombi is the main antagonist of the 1972 animated film Journey Back to Oz, which is a sequel to Victor Fleming's The Wizard of Oz and is loosely based on The Marvelous Land of Oz. In the film, Mombi (voiced by Ethel Merman) is the cousin of the late Wicked Witches of the East and West who tries to overthrow the Scarecrow with magical green elephants. When her plans are thwarted by Dorothy, Glinda and "Pumpkinhead", she transforms herself into a rose, as in The Marvelous Land of Oz; however, in this adaptation, the rose is trampled by one of the elephants, and Mombi is killed. She sings two comical solos in the film, titled "An Elephant Never Forgets" and "If You're Gonna Be a Witch (Be a Witch!)", in Ethel Merman's trademark brash style.

In the 1985 movie Return to Oz, the character of Mombi (portrayed by Jean Marsh) was combined with head-exchanging Princess Langwidere from the third book in the series, Ozma of Oz and she is renamed Princess Mombi. Here, she is portrayed as a dark-haired, deranged and evil middle-aged sorceress. She is a coward at heart who grovels before the Nome King and begs for her life when he is displeased with her. She makes a deal with the Nome King for if she trapped Princess Ozma in her enchanted mirror, he would make her a princess and gives her thirty beautiful heads (two of them are portrayed by Sophie Ward and Fiona Victory) which she could switch depending on her mood. He also gives her the Emerald City after he took away the emeralds. Mombi also guards the Powder of Life. When Dorothy encounters "Princess Mombi" in her palace, Mombi develops a fondness for Dorothy's head and locks her in the tower, planning to remove her head and take it once the girl has reached adulthood. Dorothy however escapes and steals the Powder of Life from a case which also contains Mombi's true head. Unfortunately, she awakens the head, which screams Dorothy's name, thereby awakening the other heads in turn, which all begin screaming her name. Ultimately, all the screaming awakens Mombi's headless body, which relentlessly pursues Dorothy, although the girl manages to escape. Donning her true head, Mombi sends her sinister minions the Wheelers after Dorothy. At the climax of the film, the Nome King imprisons Mombi in a magical cage for failing him. Like in Baum's original book, Mombi is stripped of all her magical powers at the end of the story (except by Dorothy, rather than Glinda, in this film). Though Princess Ozma forgives an imprisoned Mombi, on Earth, her counterpart is Nurse Wilson, the head nurse at the mental clinic that is run by Dr. J.B. Worley. The two of them have been using the machines at the clinic to secretly give their patients brain damage. When a power outage occurred during a thunderstorm, Nurse Wilson chased after Dorothy and loses her. After Dorothy returned to Kansas, she sees that Nurse Wilson was arrested and locked up in a cage on a horse buggy while Dr. Worley was mentioned to have perished in the fire caused by the thunderstorm.

In the 1986 anime adaptation Ozu no Mahōtsukai, Mombi takes on a middle aged, heavier appearance. She has purple hair in this series, in keeping with her Gillikin roots. Mombi is an antagonist in the episodes "The Tricks of Old Mombi" and "Princess Ozma" from the Russian miniseries "The Wizard of Oz" 1999. In the 1988 Polish cutout cartoon series W krainie czarnoksiężnika Oza (In the Land of the Wizard of Oz), which adapts The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and The Marvelous Land of Oz, Mombi (voiced by Alina Bukowska) appeared under the name "Wicked Witch of the West" (the actual Witch is merged with Wicked Witch of the East into one character called "Wicked Witch of the East"). She is depicted as a skinny ginger-haired hag in the brown cloak similar to the Witch from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. She also has a disguise of a nice chubby granny, in front of which she presents herself to Jinjur.

Mombi is an antagonist in the episodes "The Tricks of Old Mombi" and "Princess Ozma" from the Russian miniseries "Adventures in the Emerald City" 1999.

She is referenced briefly but does not appear in Once Upon a Time, as simply "The Wicked Witch of the North" who turned the Nick Chopper character called Stanum into the Tin Man instead of the Wicked Witch of the East.

In the TV series Emerald City, Mombi is portrayed by Fiona Shaw, a witch posing as an apothecary, living in a town with no name, she kept Tip captive in her house, forcing her to switch genders through a black elixir.

In The Oz Kids, Mombi restores her powers and kidnaps Glinda, the Tin Man, the Scarecrow, the Cowardly Lion, the Nome King, Dorothy, and her husband, Zeb, in a bid to take over Oz. She also pursues their children, who attempt to keep Mombi from accessing the Magic Belt. Dot, Dorothy's daughter, manages to trick Mombi into drinking from the forbidden fountain, which causes Mombi to lose her memory. Dot then tells Mombi that she's an kindly old woman who loves children, who lives in a castle in the sky.

title: Mombi


text: Category:Songs with music by Richard Rodgers

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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User talk:Alangstone

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Mgm|(talk) 20:13, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Alangstone


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Hobcart

A hobcart was a type of mobility device designed in the late 1960s by Dr. Steven Perry of Albrighton, Shropshire, UK.

Background
Dr. Steven had two young children, both of whom had spina bifida. He considered that the wheelchairs the children were provided with were liable to set them apart from other children of their age, so set about designing a mobility device that would look like a go-kart. The end result was the hobcart, which was produced at a local borstal when it was first made.

The idea behind this was to try to provide the inmates of the borstal the opportunity to be involved in a project which they could see was doing some good. Hobcarts were still being made into the 1980s.

title: Hobcart


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Talk:Okapi

7 Cervical Vertebrae
The diagram shows that both giraffes and okapi have 7 cervical vertebrae. Almost all mammals -- including humans -- have 7 cervical vertebrae. Could someone either add more information explaining this picture, or remove it? --BooksXYZ (talk) 07:53, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

 * OKK liioiio ii 37.210.157.253 (talk) 07:00, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Plagiarism in Okapi article
large parts of the reproduction section in this article seem to be plagiarized from the Animal Diversity Web:

I second this opinion. The entire article there is based on observation of animal in captivity, which this page doesn't state... uuuǝıɹ̃~

Tongue Picture
Hi all, I've added a second picture to illustrate the magnificent Okapi tongue, since IMO the current one is too dark. Is two too many tongue pictures, and if so, which one should go? Best regards, Yummifruitbat 20:13, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

 * The gallery is ideal for this sort of situation. Both pics can stay in. →Raul654 20:14, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * Can't say fairer than that :) Yummifruitbat 01:20, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * The -only- animal that can lick its own ears? I severely doubt that. What about rabbits?

 * Or those cows from Asia, Brahmins I think they're called. 71.217.98.158 05:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

large scale revert and edit
Hey guys, I made a number of changes to this page, removing comments that looked as though they could have been vandalism, including reverting to quite an older version. I apologise if I've removed any information of value. Thanks. Stuhacking 12:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * many thanks for your hard work, Stuhacking. It's much appreciated.Lisapollison 19:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

How about a list of zoos that have Okapis?
I know that the Los Angeles Zoo has one but it might be nice to inlude a short list of Zoos and/or wild animal parks that have Okapis on display so that curious readers can go and see one near them. What do you think? Lisapollison 19:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Only if you promise to stick around for the next ten years and keep it accurate. :-) Seriously, I think this is somewhat ephemeral information that would be hard to maintain worldwide (zoos frequently buying, selling, and trading animals around), unless you had a good reference site, in which case it would be easier just to link to that site. WP is better as the source of information that is stable and unchanging; you'll notice that very few articles give street addresses or phone numbers, for the same reason. Stan 00:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree. There's also the issue of how many zoos we're talking about; a list with several hundred entries would just unnecessarily swamp the article.  Postdlf 15:48, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

 * A quick Google search, of course, pulls up quite a few individual sites for zoos with okapis. Someday there will be probably be some kind of master web database which zoos could use to register their animals. Albanaco 10:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, both San Diego Zoo and San Diego Zoo's Wild Animal Park have suberb exhibits of okapis. Dora Nichov 03:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

US Zoos With The Okapia johnstoni Approx 100 Okapi in 28 accredited (AZA) Association of Zoos and Aquariums Zoos.

Okapi Conservation Project works with ICCN and communities throughout the Okapi Wildlife Reserve — a 13,700-sq-km swathe of the Ituri Forest in northeastern DRC — to ensure the protection of the okapi and many other species in this equatorial rainforest. Key to this are conservation initiatives that benefit the livelihoods and environment of the okapi’s human cohabitants. The OCP relies heavily on zoos around the globe to educate the international public about this unique, captivating creature and the importance of its rainforest habitat. https://www.okapiconservation.org/the-okapi/

OCTOBER 18TH WORLD OKAPI DAY According to OCP a 2013 study showed Okapi numbers have plummeted from 35,000 to 15,000 total - approximately one fifth of that number reside within the Okapi Reserve.

1987: Okapi Conservation Project begun by Gilman International Conservation to help protect native habitat in Ituri Forest of DRC.

Okapi listed as Endangered by IUCN in November 2013 - on 26th November 2013 the okapi was officially reclassified as ‘Endangered’ on the IUCN Red List, according to a decline in population size >50% in 3 generations (24 years).

IUCN Status: Endangered 2015 assessment 2013: Endangered 2008: Near Threatened (vulnerable) 1996: Lower risk/near threatened Okapi Conservation Strategy And Status 2013 Report https://www.giraffidsg.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2016/02/Okapi-conservation-strategy-2015-2025-final-EN-low-res.pdf

It is widely accepted that there are 100 Okapi in N. American AZA Zoos.

The U.S. Okapi program is strictly regulated within AZA zoos and participating zoos pay a lot of money for okapi conservation for the privilege of having Okapis. AZA Zoos with Okapi https://www.okapiconservation.org/zoo-network-the-americas/

3 Zoos in California have Okapi: Sacramento Zoo, L.A. Zoo, and San Diego Zoo.

Sleep
I removed unreferenced claim that Okapis are unusual in only sleeping 5mins per 24 hours. This university textbook suggests that Okapis have similar sleep duration times to horses, and greater duration times than giraffes. Bwithh 00:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, they mention that sleep stuff on the San Diego Zoo website, I think. Or at least some zoo website.  Let's see what I can remember (so that, if somebody would clarify that, it would be great--I gotta go to bed)...  A. Okapis don't release droppings for a certain period of time after birth.  [b]B. Okapis can sleep for around 5 minutes and still be alert.[/b]  C. An okapi can move its ears independently, much like a chameleon can do with its eyes.  I hope that "B" cleared up the whole sleeping stuff.  I'm sure okapis don't naturally sleep that shortly all the time.  Hope that helps.--Dreyfus 03:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you have a source? Also, "Okapis can sleep for around 5 minutes and still be alert" is pretty ambiguous; it doesn't really say they only need 5min/24hr, it even sounds more like they can be asleep for 5 minutes and still be conscious of what's around them. --Utaneus (talk) 23:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Animal Sleep: A Review of Sleep Duration Across Phylogeny Two species of wild artiodactyla have been studied. Im- melmann and Gebbing [86] observed three giraffes, Giraffa carnelopardalis reticulata, and one okapi, Okapia johnstoni, during 14 nights in a zoological garden. It is not clear from the study whether sleep durations reported were for total sleep time or for portions of sleep (e.g., paradoxical sleep, slow wave sleep). Nevertheless, values for the giraffes aver- aged 20 min per night with the longest episode continuing for 12 min. Measures for the okapi averaged 60 min per night with a period length of 5-6 min. http://www.proberlab.caltech.edu/documents/4-campbell-tobler-1984-1.pdf

Article mention in New Scientist
I will be the first to admit that this is of absolutely no importance whatsoever, and will do nothing to further the understanding about the okapi. However, as a bit of fun, you may wish to have a look in the current (10th February) issue of New Scientist, and read the Feedback section for a mention of this article. Or, have a look at this link: http://www.newscientist.com/backpage.ns?id=mg19325902.600 StephenBuxton 00:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Tongue
We have established that it can lick its own ears, but can it lick its own elbows?RSido 04:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

^^^^^ this. Is highly relevant. uuuǝıɹ 14:34, 4 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riennn (talk • contribs)

Hitchhikers Reference
Would anyone care to speculate on how Arthur Dent's brother came to be "nibbled to death by an Okapi"? - Ralphbk (talk) 14:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Magic. --71.225.75.183 (talk) 00:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Meh, probably just poetic license on Douglas Adams' part, since okapis are herbivores. Oh well. Doesn't matter. Clem (talk) 22:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I think we're missing a pronunciation thing, I don't know how to do that stuff, nor do I know how to read the pronunciation stuff myself, but on many other articles I have seen then. Plus, I also need to know to prove to my teacher about them. Thecutnut (talk) 09:14, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Drinking
http://www.natureinstitute.org/pub/ic/ic10/giraffe.htm

"Only the giraffe (and its rain forest relative, the Okapi) have necks that are so short relative to their legs and chest that they must splay or bend their legs [in order to drink]".

Is this true? is it interesting?

192.114.175.2 (talk) 10:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Color
The new picture that was taken recently obviously shows that they are not all dark colored on th eback. It is a light tawny color, not unlike a deer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.228.112.21 (talk) 20:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Anyone watching this page? News Story: 'Mythical' animal finally poses for camera

 * animal finally poses for camera
 * Ling.Nut (talk—WP:3IAR) 03:08, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know it's what all the news links say, that this was the first time that an Okapi had ever been photographed in the wild, but I'm really doubting that is literally true. I'm currently watching a NGC documentary on the Ituri Forest that has very clear film footage of Okapi in the wild.  Further, I doubt the Okapi Wildlife Reserve has been operating without anyone actually seeing any Okapi for decades, and the capture of Okapis for breeding in zoos, as that article mentions, obviously means someone has been encountering them in the wild.  I'm thinking that the pictures were instead the first time the Okapi had ever been photographed in the wild in Virunga National Park, but reporters have carelessly failed to qualify that, going for the more sensational story instead.  How can we establish that?  Postdlf (talk) 23:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Nocturnal/Diurnal
This article claims that okapis are diurnal, but many other sites are claiming that they are nocturnal, for example:

http://www.reference.com/browse/okapi http://www.nhm.org/site/explore-exhibits/permanent-exhibits/african-mammals/okapi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.105.244.193 (talk) 23:52, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Pop culture section
I added a Pop Culture section after all the scientific information with the reference. This animal seems to be a favorite and used and noted by many actor', writers, and other notable people. I was watching a VH1 I love the 90s show last night at 4am and saw actor comedian Michael Biggins state he thinks he created it (in a comedic manor) and I also know science fiction writer Douglas Adams has said said something similar and the animal is in his Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. I'm not an expert on wikipedia but I did read up on all the guidelines before contributing but if I did something wrong or anyone wants to clean up the wording or section feel free. 50.14.160.228 (talk) 15:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I removed your addition as vandalism, this isn't that. But I still think the addition might be problematic. I just don't know that one actor's opinion about an animal is relevant enough to be mentioned in that animal's encyclopedia entry. It is often quite hard to find out exactly what is appropriate to put in a "in popular culture"-section on wikipedia (See WP:IPC about this). But I don't think this is appropriate. Also, a forum post does not qualify as a reliable source for references in Wikipedia. Because of this, I am I have to remove your addition, but thanks for trying, and please keep on editing Wikipedia.TheFreeloader (talk) 23:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

 * while I appreciate your kind and thoughtful tone, I am wondering if you are being sarcastic. It is hardly encouraging to contribute something and spend a good deal of time trying to word it right, to just find your entire contribution deleted.  You said "you still think the addition might be problematic."  Well why don't you help me along to better write, edit, and site it rather than just delete the whole thing? Why do you get to do that? How do you get to be the authority on the Okapi and if it should have a section on popular culture references or not?  Now don't get me wrong - I am not trying to be confrontational but it is a bit befuddling to me.  I think it's very relevant, and I think to a lot of people it would be very relevant.  I was watching VH1 and a comedian (Blackout) who is listed here as Michael Biggins was talking about this animal and they showed it.  I did not even know before that that it was a real animal, but I had heard the 'name' okapi from the douglas Adam's books the Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy series.  So apparently using the 'okapi' is an in joke amongs eccentric writers and comedians.. I wanted to put a section together on tis and that was the start.
 * Perhaps I gave too much space to the comedian, but that is because I found that.  How would I site the page from the Douglas Adams books? Can you please put it back in and YOU help me site it or shorten it so it communicates this interesting fact  It's a "funny" animal.  I really didn't think it was real, so I searched for it and here I am. I think that many others probably would find this information fascinating and useful, and relevant.  I wanted to reference the VH1 show but it is copyrighted I don't know how I would do that, so I referenced what was shown on the show which was that web page.  Perhaps more space to Douglas Adams? or just a short note about each of them? Surely he is a world wide famous author of beloved books - of which i thought he had 'made up' the Okapi as a monster until I saw Blackout talking about it.  I have the hard cover books I could find the exact page if you need but there are various editions.  Help me do something with this instead of being destructive and wiping out a curious part of the story of a curious funny animal.  Also I have no idea how to get a name on here it doesn't seem to work i am trying to do that.  50.14.160.228 (talk) 01:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I just don't know how I could help you make that Blackout reference relevant. No matter how short you made the mention of it, I still think it would come across to most people as irrelevant and out of place in this article. I bet the okapi has had innumerable mentions in popular culture if you really start digging through it, I remember it mentioned in an episode of Six Feet Under, but I don't think starting a list of all those would be helpful to this article. About the hypothesis that it is a generally "funny animal", it would be synthesis to make some conclusion about that from just a collecting of examples where it is used as such in popular culture. To say that the okapi is a "funny animal" you would need to find some reliable source which says just that. About the reference by Douglas Adams, if it is more than just a passing mention of the animal it might be relevant (please see WP:IPC to judge this). The way to reference the book is quite simple, you just make a reference note and write the name of the book, the author and the pages it can be found on. While there are more things which can be included if you want the reference to be perfect (see WP:CITE for this), name, author and page should do to begin with.TheFreeloader (talk) 02:23, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Ok, I spent a lot of time researching and rewrote the entire thing in a more neutral tone and only included three major artists with references and I think I cited them correctly I read up on citing and only included what was said / is documented by a writer, a comedian, and a band - just to show the wide fan base of the animal from artists. I could not link to the VH1 video because it is copyrighted, but I did my best and kept it short yet accurate. I have read up on registering so I will try and come back here with a username rather than random numbers. 50.14.160.228 (talk) 03:16, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Still, it does not pass the WP:IPC requirements for including passing mentions from popular culture, that is: "However, passing mentions in books, television or film dialogue, or song lyrics should be included only when that mention's significance is itself demonstrated with secondary sources." There are no secondary sources included as reference for what you are trying to add, and I have not been able to find any myself. Until such can be found, I don't think it is appropriate to include those pop culture references.TheFreeloader (talk) 03:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * My goodness man, you wikipedians are insane tough cookies... Isn't a show that is not his show referencing him talking about an Okapi a secondary source? And with the Douglas Adam's material - that IS secondary material, that is an INTERVIEW with one of his co writers on the radio show so that IS secondary as well and goes into detail about his favorite line being the nibbled to death by an okapi.... and with the band - surely that is fairly notable - that they had a vinyl record skip on the track in an infinite loop.  I'm sure I can find ore sources and i can see that someone already re-wrote my re-write better and I guess put it in the order of notability.  I will find more secondary sources please mr authority on all things wikipedia and okapi give a humble okapi lover a chance to contribute.  I'll find some more secondary sources of secondary sources... this whole thing is making me have a headache I think it reads really well now, it is at the end, and contributes to the overall article. But let me sleep tonight I will work on this tomorow. My god do you get paid for this are you wikipedia staff or something? I thought this was supposed to be an open contribution community it seems like a closed system with impossible guidelines!  50.14.160.228 (talk) 04:31, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I just reverted the destructive edit which removed TheFreeloader's VERY acceptable rewrite of your additions, and I agree and support your additions and will help you find fore sources. The last person who just DELETED everything - well I agree with you that is total vandalism to me.  I delt with a lot of that as well I am a fan of both Douglas Adams and Blackout and while I have never heard of the band you mentioned, to say "Douglas Adams" is not notable is the most ridiculous thing in the world, he's only one of the world's most famous authors.  That's not notable? Give it a rest. The section reads well and contributes to the article. I know there is an actual printed magazine reference somewhere where Blackout talks about the okapi thing..and it is in a movie as well 2009 "FILM CONTEST?" I'll try and find it and help you out 50.14.160.228 - PS: It's very simple to register and make a name and far preferable to using your ip address. Simple...... click "log in / register" at the top right corner of the screen and do the process and verify your e-mail.  Don't let these wikipedia nazis who think they run this place that you sometimes find get you down... they have no right to go wiping out whole sections without discussion you have just as much value in your contribution as the scientific parts do, you just need a few more sources perhaps. I'll help you later today when I'm off work.  ManofThoth (talk) 11:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The things, while Douglas Adams may himself be notable, not every detail of about what he has ever said or written is notable. There needs to be some secondary source which has picked up on the reference (according to WP:IPC) for it to be notable. While the thing about the record might in some sense constitute such a secondary source, a reference is still needed to verify that it is actually true. I am not sure at all the Blackout reference, while he might be doing a lot of promotion himself of his love for okapis, I still think there would need to be someone else to pick up on it for it to be notable under WP:IPC. To 50.14.160.228, I am sorry if editing Wikipedia seems harder than it should be, but "in popular culture"-sections are just a quite hard place to edit. People here have become quite vigilant about popular culture and trivia sections as experience has shown that if people aren't wary about keeping them down to what is strictly notable, they will soon come dominate most articles. I think if you start editing outside these kinds of sections you will find that Wikipedia can be a quite a bit more laid-back place.TheFreeloader (talk) 15:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I don't think recognition in secondary sources is always necessary for cultural references; I wouldn't necessarily remove, for example, a notable kid's picture book that is about an okapi, or a notable film in which okapis play a major role (please, Hollywood, get on this), though including links to articles on those works under "see also" might be an even better solution than a "pop culture section". But here, I completely agree with TheFreeloader: these references are nothing but mentions that are insignificant to this topic and add nothing to the reader's understanding.  They're like reverse annotations in a way: if someone reading the Douglas Adams book wanted to know what an okapi was, they'd want to read this article, but not many people already reading this article would want to know every book that had merely used the word "okapi".  So I also support removal of the section.  If okapis are significant to another topic, but that topic is not significant to okapis, then that other article can explain its usage and link to this article, and that article will then show up in "what links here" for those who want to look up even the most tangential references to okapis.  But okapis apparently aren't even significant to Michael Biggins, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, or the other subjects mentioned, because it's not mentioned in any of those articles, which further supports the conclusion that it is trivial at best and contributes nothing of substance here.  postdlf (talk) 15:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * [Edit conflict] Man of Thoth, please see your talk page for my comment on your use of "vandalism" and worse. I won't discuss it further here.

 * Of course the great Douglas Adams is notable! No-one is suggesting he is not.  However, not everything written by any writer, however great, is notable, and I am struggling to see the relevance to this article of one brief mention by him, let alone the similarly minor mentions by far lesser people.

 * Editors may find it helpful to read this WP guidance note: WP:TRIVIA.

 * To keep the material in this section, we need to be sure that it contributes to the subject covered by the article. I can't see that it does: Freeloader's comments above eloquently explain why.  I'd add that secondary sources do have to be WP:RS themselves, not just passing mentions in some blog or magazine article.

 * Having said all that, I am intrigued by the mention in this edit of okapis being an "inside joke". Freeloader deleted this as original research, and if it is OR, no matter.  However, if sources can be found for it, then we really do have something notable, and the other mentions would serve as examples.  Richard New Forest (talk) 16:12, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

 * It is attitudes like this "The great Douglas Adams......" but then you go and call the other two "far LESSER people," that is an absolute shameful and pompous sort of wikipedia elitism. Now, I agree that to me, and obviously to you, it appears that Douglas Adams is a GREAT writer, yet that is only 'opinion' no matter how many people say it, I'm sure their is someone who will come in here and call anything or anyone "lesser" or "unworthy" or "not popular enough" and his 'sales figures' or the fact that you like him and perhaps don't know of other writers who have sold as many books or have never heard of the band because they were not as famous as Elvis should not establish that the other two references are "lesser".  I have no idea about the band or the record either but it certainly seems that to a very many people they were or are "GREAT" since they are still performing. It also seems extremely notable that of all the things in the world, they choose THAT line to skip on their record. I am trying to find out more about the band and the record and I will site it if I do.  I have heard the okapi story many times on Blackout's show, yet you are correct it is not mentioned in his WIKIPEDIA article, but it is all over other material on him several years back and some current.  Wikipedia doesn't cover every thing every person has ever said as some sort of life document or court record. All the articles are written by groups and sections appear and disappear because editors consider some things 'lesser'  . I would think that we could all agree that the okapi is an odd looking animal at best, but I don't know if that is original research or not. I do see that there are Egyptian references.  If it was just, "made up" by the writer then I have been nibbling down the OKAPI hole myself and I have found some occult references and sources and it looks as if Aleister Crowley was in on this okapi thing as well and it goes back to Egyptian magic... but let me sort this out and find usable sources. It may be that this is like something similar to the wilhelm scream but throughout a far longer time scale, but I am writing that here in the discussion, not in the actual article. ManofThoth (talk) 03:22, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I'm not really ashamed of thinking highly of Douglas Adams. The others are lesser, to me, mainly because for some reason I'd never heard of them.  However, it's not my opinions that are important: the point I was making is that however great a writer is (in whoever's opinion), not everything they write is notable.  You say that things are included on WP or not because of the opinions of editors.  Unfortunately this sort of bias does happen, and this is exactly why we use reliable sources to decide what is notable, not our own opinions.  I have no objection to the inclusion of the material we've been discussing, but only if we have evidence from reliable sources that it is notable.  Richard New Forest (talk) 11:10, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Undid the massive pop culture section delete by Freeloader. I am warning you Freeloader - continuous deleting of sections YOU deem non notable is unacceptable and borders on article vandalism. Notability has already BEEN established - that is not the argument. Have you READ this entire discussion? Some more sourcing for the SECOND reference on the record is needed. Sourcing that is other than wikipedia I am thinking. If you do an entire section wipe again without a consensus (playing wikipedia God on your own - which you have no authority to do) then I am going to call for some higher ups to get involved. In the mean time I am continueing on my search to find a site for the 2nd reference to the record. The other two have established notability in film, tv, radio,and literature. ManofThoth (talk) 10:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * There really is no reason to get all dramatic about this. I removed the section because discussion had died out, which I took to mean that you had either conceded that this shouldn't be included, or that you had lost interest. I now see that that wasn't the case, so you reverted my edit and it is all back as before. No harm no foul. That's how Wikipedia is supposed to work (see WP:BRD). People make edits, other people revert it and then it gets discussed. About the actual content, then I still haven't seen any secondary sources which establish the notability of these mentions. So I am not sure what you mean when you say notability has been established. Could you please clarify on that?TheFreeloader (talk) 14:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * My interpretation was that a consensus had been reached to delete the section. Two people had offered reasons why it should not be included and one (Man of Thoth) had insisted it should be included, but had not really explained why.  I am still not persuaded that it should be retained.  What is notable about this material?  Richard New Forest (talk) 19:50, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Key words: "your interpretation". This is not a numbers game of 2 against one and that makes it so. I did not even write the original section only helped clean it up a bit and helped support the original poster who everyone discouraged pretty harshly (50.14.160.228), so then it's two for it to be included and two against if we are playing schoolyard okapi numbers battle. Original contributor (50.14.160.228) - did you do any more work or make an account? I am going to source more when I have some time, but I have this thing you might have heard of, it's called a job, so I became busy and haven't been able to finish researching the tricky okapi inside joke tale but it's certainly there. That doesn't mean delete.  I am trying to locate some secondary sources and also a copy of the record because I find this whole thing very curious. I will return with strong secondary sources.  The band was huge at the time and played with some of the greats, so I think the skipping Okapi record is very notable, and also makes the Douglas Adams inclusion even more notable, being that it was from his recording that they used the sample.  Freeloader - sorry, nothing personal I just really hate delete edits and find them destructive. I don't think the pop culture section is excessive or advertising for any parties, and it does provide some quirky information on this quirky animal which is obviously taken heart in pop culture. If I can find an online source I would like to add one more since I have found that Aleister Crowley references the animal in a poem, and it is quite funny something to the effect of thou magical beast.. I'm not exactly sure but I believe either the Book of Lies or something similar. I have made some photocopies. I can't find the online reference I'm an old school card catalog library type of guy, but I'll find it. Please give some time as I do have a full time job. ManofThoth (talk) 21:14, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Well, I actually like to think of myself as a bit of an inclusionist myself too. But one has to appreciate that it is in nobody's interest to make articles into long indiscriminate lists of random mentions in popular culture of a certain topic. And the standard being set by these examples leaves this article open to become a very long list of mentions indeed. And then just imagine if the same standards were transfered over to subject like, say, Tiger or President of the United States, there would be almost no end to how many pop culture reference could be added then. But there really is no reason to get all protective about this; the content will not disappear just because it is temporarily kept out of the articles until the needed sources are found. The content can easily be added back in as soon as that happens. About online sources, a source doesn't have to be online to be acceptable for Wikipedia. Books, magazines, even film are often used as reference for Wikipedia articles. They just have to reliable sources and possible for others to find.TheFreeloader (talk) 21:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * It's not a matter of how many on each "side", but the value of the arguments. We haven't yet seen any reliable sources which show how these mentions are notable, just sources showing that the mentions exist, which is of course not the same thing.  If we did have sources for notability, then yes, great, let's include the material.  Until then I can't see how it adds much to the article.  Remember that WP works by reliable sources, not the personal views or interpretations of editors. Richard New Forest (talk) 23:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I would agree that endless pop culture references could get out of hand - but their is a connecting thread to these references and that is that they are odd eccentric notable people who recognize the odd eccentric nature of this creature and use it as a joke. Not just "x" person likes the okapi. "Nibbled to death by an Okapi" is obviously a joke because they are such gentle timid creatures and usually run from people from what I can see in online YouTube vidoes. It also connects to the article which mentions it was given as a gift carving in Egypt. Because of the extreme weird appearance of the animal it was considered sacred or magical in Egypt (I have found this in writing I have to source it), enough so to be given as a gift in stone carvings - and there is an occult connection because all occultism stems from Egypt, So these are not random 'John doe really likes the Okapi' references but short quick ones from very notable odd people about a popular joke usage by eccentric artists and occultists, including Adams, the band, and the comedian Blackout. I am no occultist or magic (or is it magik?) practitioner but I have some interest in the subject and the Okapi (and it appears to always be spelled with a capital O by occultists) is referenced in teachings and writings by occult authors Crowley as well as Peter Carol (CHAOS MAGIC, LIBER CHAOS). I as well saw the VH1 I love the 90s episode that the original contributor of the section was referring to and tried to link to. Wouldn't that be considered a reliable secondary notable source? In that one - comedian Michael Biggins (Blackout) was obviously poking fun at both the animal and occult magic. He did a chant and a rhyme mocking some of the supposed secret hand signs of secret societies and slapped his face three times yelling "all hail the mighty gizebrahorsraf (I am most likely misspelling that) - all hail the thrice great okapi, creator of this universe and my lord and master." It is the quirkiness and oddity of these people's use of the okapi over say - "John Doe likes the duck billed platypus" that makes the inclusion notable, from notable people, worth while for inclusion, and a fun, useful strange interesting addition to the article of a strange interesting odd animal indeed.  Please explain to me the proper way to source material that is not online but in books or periodicals - or point me to the page that explains the proper way to do this, and I will gather up some more notable secondary sources that back this up. ManofThoth (talk) 12:19, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I don't think the VH1 program will work as a secondary source because as I understand it was just showing the comedian doing some of his routine, which is essentially still primary. The occultism claim as well as the inside joke claim are both interesting theories, but they will need to be supported by references to reliable sources to be included here. I think you can find most you will need about how to cite any kind of source in WP:CITE.TheFreeloader (talk) 16:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC

 * Well the thing is - everyone who uses the Okapi is doing some of 'his routine'. That is what I am finding.  I found some good stuff, occult references but they do not SERIOUSLY refer to the Okapi as a magical animal.. at least.. how would one tell it is serious.. ALL of them appear to be making light of themselves by reffering to the okapi as either a a>god b>mystical animal c> master of some sorts d> creator of the universe.. which I guess is the same is referring to it as God.  I found some good books that I am photocopying from the library and then I am reading up on the siting section you pointed to.  Thank you.  I am not putting this in the article but Blackout's current web page and review of a Prince concert has several 'okapi' / occult references that I am ASSUMING are obviously a joke:  look at his current page: http://blackout.com  and it changes every week so in case it changes the graphic I believe is here: http://blackout.com/blackout/pagetops/thrice-great-okapi-blurpinkle.jpg   ManofThoth (talk) 21:45, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm all FOR keeping the "In popular culture" section. It doesn't detract from the "zoological" discussion. It adds a bit of flavor to the entry. And there are "respectable" reasons to include it: for example, if I was researching the animal to consider it for possible use in a marketing campaign, or to use an image of it in a children's book, I might want to know of "pop culture" references so I don't inadvertently imply something off-color or inappropriate. Please remove the "warning banner", and leave the section. Dharasty (talk) 12:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Please see WP:TRIVIA, which discourages such sections. We can keep it if we can provide reliable refs for the relevance of the material, as discussed above.  I'm looking forward to seeing such refs...  Richard New Forest (talk) 15:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

 * These sources are all proven notable by wikipedia standards and simply need the correct notation. The last addition was not. I won't tolerate deletion.  I started the original section and it has been edited to neutral acceptable language and to say these are not notable and delete is complete and utter opinion.  Manofthought is working on the citation as far is know give him the time and stop deleting. ````  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.247.131 (talk) 04:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Just a procedural note. (I have no interest in the content of the article.) A core policy states that "the burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material." If the material is not controversial and other editors have indicated they are actively working to find reliable sources, it would probably be the most courteous approach to give them a chance to do so before removing it—but that's not required. When sources are found, the material easily can be restored; the article won't self-destruct in the meantime. Rivertorch (talk) 05:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

 * The section has just been reinstated by IP 24.90.247.131, who has explained this in edit summary and above by saying "these sources are proven". I'm a bit puzzled by this reinstatement, as discussion is still ongoing, and as Rivertorch says, it's for the restorer to show that the material is notable. Never mind, we can delete it later if it's not.  (Also, I'm not really sure that the statement "I won't tolerate deletion" is quite in the spirit of a consensus discussion...)

 * I'm puzzled too by the statement "these sources are proven". I can't see where.  We have refs showing that okapis have been mentioned in various books, but this is very far from showing that such mentions are notable or relevant.  What we need (as discussed above) is refs which actually discuss the relevance of the okapi in popular culture at more than a superficial level: these need to be independent, reliable sources, preferably academic.  Such sources would be papers or books called something like The okapi as a symbol of the unusual in Western European culture, or The cult of the okapi in twentieth century literature.

 * If such papers or books do not exist, then there is no evidence that the material is relevant and we cannot include it. We cannot decide for ourselves what is important.  If we look at a long list of okapi quotes and say "well, obviously the okapi is important in literature", that is no more than our own opinion, and so it is original research and we cannot include it.

 * So can we have proper sources soon please, or delete the section again. It might be helpful to editors to read these links: WP:TRIVIA and WP:OR.  Richard New Forest (talk) 10:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

 * WP:IPC states that there has to be secondary sources mentioning the reference for it to be considered notable. None of the mentions in the section has that. The reason why I removed the section now is that the section keeps attracting other mentions which can not be proven to be relevant, by the logic of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. And it really is hard to give a good reason why the new unnotable mentions have to be removed, when the old ones get to stay, other than bad reason like they got there first, or the people who added the firsts ones want them in more. So for this article not to turn into a long list of pop culture mentions yet to be proven notable, I think it would be most reasonable to keep all pop culture mentions with unproven notability out the article.TheFreeloader (talk) 12:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Disagree completely. The added section had no sources whatsoever while there are literally dozens of sources of notability on Douglas Adams and his referencing okapis.  Also many secondary sources on Michael Biggins / Blackout in video and on national tv, and while sparce, there are sources on the band and their use of it as a looping track.  I apologize in my delay in understanding how to properly source material on the internet.  I have been extremely busy at work and the okapi has not been my top priority,, but the section should stand, and I will get further references cited correctly.  The other reference that was deleted had NO source.  I am all in agreement in not cluttering.  ManofThoth (talk) 04:31, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

 * EDIT addition I meant I apologize in my delay in understanding how to properly source / site sources that are NOT on the internet or that might have copyright issues. There is a DEFINITE traceable theme of the Okapi referred to as a magical occult and holy animal in Egyptian literature, sculpture, and modern literature as well as other mediums. This is not an opinion - this is there throughout history and still going on in modern media.  ManofThoth (talk) 04:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

 * In the occult world there is reference by practicing magicians (not in the stage magician type) of the Okapi as an animal representing certain magical qualities and okapi 'totems' are used in ceremonies to represent and bring out certain wanted qualities.. this is not the greatest source but here is a page referring to what I am finding in some old print books but not much of online. http://www.linsdomain.com/totems/pages/okapi.htm Okapi 'totems' have been worshiped and given as gifts and used in ceremonial magic from ancient times to modern new age / wiccan / pagan groups.  I'm collecting some fascinating stuff that could probably add a whole other section to this but seeing the resistance to just the pop culture references I am not going to even bother trying, but it should at least back up the inside occult joke or reference. ManofThoth (talk) 12:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

 * The resistance is not to the pop culture section as such, but to unreffed material in general, as per WP consensus. If you have a ref for this material, please do include it.  Richard New Forest (talk) 19:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Any progress?
No refs seem to have been found for the significance of this material. I suggest that unless such refs appear soon, we delete the section. Richard New Forest (talk) 09:19, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

 * ah the delete happy Richard. Deleting is foolish. Your life is not notable to me... I think I'll delete you... even though someone might have found some value. The material ads and does not clutter the Okapi section. I sited what notable internet sources I could, I'm still not quite sure how to site non internet material but there is plenty of it to support not only notability but a fascinating history of this animal over many others in culture. How culture relates to an animal or species over time is surely relevant, and this section has not run a muck like so many wikinuts worried it would.  ManofThoth (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Article on okapi birth at Bronx Zoo
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/science/birth-of-bronx-zoos-mbura-overcomes-okapi-odds.html?hpw=&pagewanted=all — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.121.204.129 (talk) 00:54, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

hululiu
Umm ... there's a weird word at the start of the article but it doesn't appear when I try to Edit it away. I don't think I'm retarded ... is it that someone hacked the zoology tag at the top?Crasshopper (talk) 06:08, 11 December 2011 (UTC) screenshot of what I'm seeing: http://imgur.com/IKUYu
 * Fixed, leftover vandalism stuck onto the bottom of the taxobox.--Mr Fink (talk) 06:24, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There's still some vandalism stuck before Entymology (and Entymology is missing off the article) DabblerX (talk 2013/03/27 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.188.193.9 (talk) 02:59, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see any vandalism. Could you please specify what it is? (Incidentally, I think you mean etymology.) Rivertorch (talk) 05:49, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It was reverted by ClueBot within the same minute. postdlf (talk) 15:58, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I saw that, but since the IP reported the vandalism over three hours after ClueBot had been by, I thought they may have seen something else. Rivertorch (talk) 16:44, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Numbers of okapis worlwide
The introduction states that "about 10,000–20,000 (okapis) remain in the wild and as of 2011", while the chapter "Wild status" states: "The world population is estimated at 10,000–35,000". That should be harmonized according to the most serious estimation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caïus Gracchus (talk • contribs) 14:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Planned edit
This is what I plan to add to the topic: Okapi I  Calves A. Single calf is born B. Able to stand after half an hour C. Stay in the nest for 2 months for safety D. They suckle for up to a year II. Sneaky A. Very shy animals and sneaky B. Have a secret language C. Mom can check in with baby without predators knowing D. Females have silent noise when about to breed III. Threats A. Human Hunters 1.Poaching a)illegal           b)Kill to sell fur B.Predators 1.Leopard a)Can’t hear them           b)Prowl and crawl up for surprise attack C. Deforestation 1.Biggest loss of Okapi’s — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaney coyne (talk • contribs) 20:59, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * What sources are you using? postdlf (talk) 21:02, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you have sources for these claims?--Mr Fink (talk) 21:44, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Why does my information keep getting deleted?
I am new to Wikipedia and I keep trying to add new information about okapi calves. All my stuff keeps getting deleted and I don't know why. I am very confused. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaney coyne (talk • contribs)
 * Well, for starters, what you have is poorly written, and you do not provide any reliable sources to verify your information. The only source you did give was a mirror website that copied Wikipedia's article.--Mr Fink (talk) 21:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Well thanks for the help but I thought the San Diego Zoo website was reliable. What can I do to make my calf section stay up on Wikipedia?
 * Chaney coyne (talk) 21:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

 * The San Diego Zoo site is okay (scientific papers/books would be even better). The problem is that the majority of your material is coming from a-z-animals, which (like Wikipedia) allows anyone to edit, thus not a reliable source. If you want a calf section, then you have to write it using only the facts that you can verify using reliable sources and properly reference the material. Cheers, Kirin13 (talk) 21:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

What about the pronghorn?
"The okapi and the giraffe are the only living members of the family Giraffidae".

"As a member of the superfamily Giraffoidea, the pronghorn's closest living relatives are the giraffes and okapi". From the wiki article on proghorn.

Which one is right?

-Evan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.73.225.55 (talk) 04:38, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Both statements are correct: The giraffe family and the pronghorn family are both subgroups within the superfamily Giraffoidea, which is distinct from Giraffidae.--Mr Fink (talk) 04:52, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Okapi


text:
Embassy Suites by Hilton

Embassy Suites by Hilton is a chain of upper upscale all-suite hotels trademarked by Hilton Worldwide. , there are 257 locations in five countries and territories with 59,712 rooms. Similar to other Hilton brands, 212 Embassy Suites hotels are independently owned and operated by franchisees with 47,930 rooms, while 45 locations are managed with 11,782 rooms.

History
The Embassy Suites hotel chain was founded in 1983 by Hervey Feldman and Mike Rose, Holiday Inn Corporation's CEO. Feldman was the president and CEO of Embassy Suites until 1990, after which he served as executive chairman until 1992. The first Embassy Suites hotel opened in 1984 in Overland Park, Kansas. In 1986, Embassy Suites built two hotels in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, one costing $28 million and the other $38 million.

In 1989, just 6 years after its founding, Embassy Suites was named one of Fortune's "Best Companies for Customer Service." In 1990, the parent company of Embassy Suites became The Promus Companies Incorporated. Embassy Suites opened its first international property in 1992 in Toronto.

In 1999, Embassy Suites Hotels joined the Hilton Family after the merger of Hilton Hotels Corp. and Promus Hotel Corp. That same year, Embassy Suites was named "Best Practice Corporate Champions in Quality" by the Center for Hospitality Research at Cornell's School of Hotel Administration, and was the recipient of the J.D. Power and Associates "Highest Guest Satisfaction among All-Suite Hotel Chains" award. Embassy Suites celebrated its 25th anniversary in 2009 with the opening of Embassy Suites Minneapolis – Brooklyn Center. That same year, Embassy Suites won “Highest Guest Satisfaction among Upscale Hotel Brands” for a record-setting seventh time.

In 2014, Embassy Suites Santo Domingo opened, representing the brand’s first hotel in the Dominican Republic. The following year, Embassy Suites re-branded to Embassy Suites by Hilton.

Concept
Embassy Suites is a chain of all-suite hotels. All guest rooms of this chain have a separate living area as well as a sleeping area. The majority of Embassy Suites hotels have an atrium-style layout with glass elevators, although some Embassy Suites properties lack this feature. In the evening, an Evening Reception with drinks and light snacks is provided for all guests. Embassy Suites properties also offer a complimentary breakfast featuring made-to-order omelets and other hot and cold options.

Advertisement
In the 2000s, commercials for Embassy Suites featured a boy named Austin who described a family vacation at an Embassy Suites Property. In the 1980s and early 1990s, commercials for Embassy Suites featured Garfield along with the slogan "You don't have to be a fat cat to enjoy the suite life". In early 2011, Embassy Suites announced a series of three new 30-second commercials, to be aired in major markets beginning in March 2011. The commercials feature the character 'Mr. More' and are directed by Roman Coppola. The series highlights three of the Embassy standards, True Two Room Suites, Cooked-to-Order Breakfast and the Manager's Reception. The catchphrase is 'What's better than getting more of more and less of less?'

In popular culture

 * The 2017 film Spider-Man: Homecoming filmed the Academic Decathlon scenes at the Hilton Atlanta Perimeter Center Embassy Suites.
 * In the season 5 episode 4 of Miami Vice, a shoot out scene was filmed in the Miami Airport Embassy Suites location.

title: Embassy Suites by Hilton


text:
1976 in Irish television

The following is a list of events relating to television in the Republic of Ireland from 1976.

Events

 * 18 October – Minister for Posts and Telegraphs Conor Cruise O'Brien issues a directive to RTÉ, providing clarification on the organisations whose members are banned from broadcast. The move follows the issuing of the original directive regarding this issue in 1971.
 * 21 December – The Broadcasting Authority (Amendment) Act becomes law. The Act includes amendments to Section 31 of the original 1960 Broadcasting Authority Act and the establishment of the Broadcasting Complaints Commission.

Debuts

 * 23 October – 🇺🇸 The Great Grape Ape Show (1975)
 * 27 October – The Wombles (1973–1975)

Ongoing television programmes

 * RTÉ News: Nine O'Clock (1961–present)
 * RTÉ News: Six One (1962–present)
 * The Late Late Show (1962–present)
 * The Riordans (1965–1979)
 * Quicksilver (1965–1981)
 * Wanderly Wagon (1967–1982)
 * Hall's Pictorial Weekly (1971–1980)
 * Sports Stadium (1973–1997)
 * Trom agus Éadrom (1975–1985)
 * The Late Late Toy Show (1975–present)

Ending this year

 * Unknown – Seven Days (1966–1976)

Births

 * 11 August – Claire Byrne, journalist and television presenter
 * 16 September – Liz Bonnin, television presenter
 * Undated – Dáithí Ó Sé, television presenter

title: 1976 in Irish television


text:
Action of 5 November 1813

The action of 5 November 1813 was a brief naval clash during the Napoleonic Wars, between part of the British Mediterranean Fleet led by Vice-Admiral Sir Edward Pellew, and a French force under Rear-Admiral Julien Cosmao-Kerjulien. The engagement took place outside the French port of Toulon.

The clash occurred when a French fleet under Vice-Admiral Maxime Julien Émeriau de Beauverger took advantage of a favourable wind and the temporary absence of the British blockading force, to leave port to carry out exercises. Émeriau abandoned the exercises when the wind changed, but while returning to port his rear came under attack from the recently returned British inshore squadron. The British attack was reinforced by newly arrived ships from the main fleet, but the French were able to escape into Toulon after exchanging cannon fire with the British. Casualties on both sides were light.

Background
The French Mediterranean Fleet had been blockaded in their principal base at Toulon for several years. Their commander from early 1811, Vice-Admiral Maxime Julien Émeriau de Beauverger made occasional sorties from the port in order to exercise his fleet, but preferred to avoid any chance of action with the patrolling British fleet under Vice-Admiral Sir Edward Pellew. Émeriau instead preferred to make brief sorties when the wind was in his favour and the British were absent, undertake exercises, and then return to Toulon when Pellew's fleet appeared. Pellew in turn hoped to tempt the French out and then cut them off from their homeport, forcing a decisive battle upon them. To this end he kept the main part of his fleet, including his largest ships, some distance from Toulon, and relied on a small inshore squadron composed of 74-gun ships to maintain the blockade. Strong gales in late October 1813 had forced both the inshore squadron and the main battlefleet off their stations, and Émeriau decided to make a sortie to exercise his fleet off Cape Sicié.

The French fleet, consisting of between twelve and fourteen ships of the line, six frigates and a schooner duly put to sea at 9:30 am on the morning of 5 November. Émeriau, flying his flag aboard the Impérial, was assisted in his manoeuvres by a strong east-north-east wind and made for the usual exercise area. The British inshore squadron, commanded by Captain Henry Heathcote, had only arrived back on their station the night before, and the main British fleet under Sir Edward Pellew was some distance to the south. Heathcote, commanding four 74-gun ships, was observing the French movements, when at 11:30 am, the wind suddenly changed direction, shifting to the north-west. Concerned about the sudden arrival of the British and unfavourable winds, Émeriau abandoned the exercises and ordered the fleet to make for Toulon. The advanced squadron of the French fleet, commanded by Rear-Admiral Julien Cosmao-Kerjulien and consisting of five ships of the line and four heavy frigates, now found itself to leeward, beating back to port. Heathcote immediately saw a chance to cut off the French rear, and ordered his squadron to attack.

Engagement
Heathcote, commanding HMS Scipion (1805), took his ship in and at 12:34 pm passed the French rear, firing on them with her port guns, as the French stood in for Toulon on the starboard tack. The rest of the squadron, joined by the 74-gun HMS Pompee (1793) from Pellew's fleet, followed in succession. The British ships then turned about and tacked across in the opposite direction, cannonading the fleeing French with their starboard batteries. At 1:00 pm the advance ships of Pellew's fleet, HMS Caledonia (1808), HMS San Josef (1797) and HMS Boyne (1810) arrived and opened fire on the rear-most French ship, the Wagram. The British ships tacked and wore, exchanging fire with the French until the wind carried Cosmao-Kerjulien's squadron under the safety of the shore batteries covering the approach to Toulon.

Casualties and damage on both sides were light. On the British side, twelve men were wounded by French fire, while one man was killed and another two wounded in accidents, bringing total British casualties to 15. Caledonia sustained a shot to her mainmast and three or four in her hull, as well as some damage to her shrouds and backstays. Her launch and barge were also destroyed. The French had a total of 17 men wounded to varying degrees, mostly aboard the Agamemnon, which suffered damage to her masts, hull and rigging, and had nine men wounded. The Borée had her wheel shot away, and the frigates Pénélope and Melpomène were damaged in their sails, masts and rigging. Pellew sailed for Menorca soon afterwards, reducing the inshore squadron to a minimum, but Émeriau declined to come out.

title: Action of 5 November 1813


text:
Glossary of chemical formulae

This is a list of common chemical compounds with chemical formulae and CAS numbers, indexed by formula. This complements alternative listing at list of inorganic compounds. There is no complete list of chemical compounds since by nature the list would be infinite.

Note: There are elements for which spellings may differ, such as aluminum/aluminium, sulfur/sulphur, and caesium/cesium.

C

 * C
 * C2
 * C3
 * C4
 * C5
 * H
 * C7
 * C8
 * C9
 * C10
 * C15
 * C20

title: Glossary of chemical formulae


text: User talk:82.154.27.13

title: User talk:82.154.27.13


text: User talk:83.132.212.197

title: User talk:83.132.212.197


text:
Talk:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (video game)

Change to 'Plot' section
I have modified the plot section of this article to reflect the content portrayed in the video game rather than the novel. The virus in the game was called "Ebola Brahma" rather than the codename "Shiva" from the novel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.89.213.222 (talk) 00:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

The Origin is wrong
Based on the post-mortem on Gamasutra link Red Storm was founded first and while Tom Clancy did participate in the brainstorm sessions, he didn't contribute much. The team had originally decided on the FBI Hostage Rescue Team, about rescuing hostages. Later they expanded the scope to all sorts of covert missions, and renamed it "Black Ops". THEN they found that Tom Clancy decided to base his next novel on terrorism AND a team to combat it. So they had to make changes to their game in order to match up with the book, and when the game is finished, the novel isn't yet, so they had to create their own --Kschang77 01:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Of note
This game seem to be associated with some controversy that this wikipedia article fails to mention. There was apparently a domain name used in the game that contains only pornographic links when visited with a browser http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/05/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/ and a comic drawn of the producer of this game prompted legal action http://kotaku.com/gaming/assassin.s-creed/ubisoft-threatens-something-awful-over-jade-comic-323946.php I feel that these should probably be mentioned in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.17.174 (talk) 06:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The result was to keep the article as-is. (unanimous consensus to not merge; merger proposal will be set for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas and its sequel before deletion is considered.) MuZemike (talk) 19:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I propose that Michael Walters be merged into Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (video game). The former has little, if any, notability as its own article. It can be better mentioned here as a subsection of the Plot section. Please discuss below, and indicate if you support or oppose the merger. If no discussion is started within five days of the sign date, then the merger proposal automatically passes. MuZemike (talk) 04:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose As far as I can tell, he doesn't appear in this game. He is already mentioned in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six which is about the franchise in general, and has brief mentions in the Vegas games where he appears. I don't claim he it notable, but if you think there is anything that still wants merging, rather than just deleting the article, those articles are more appropriate targets. Silverfish (talk) 20:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - delete article instead. Simply not notable, no out of universe references. --Oscarthecat (talk) 09:51, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I'm pretty sure he doesn't actually appear in this one. --SamB135 (talk) 22:18, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot
The article could use a screenshot of the game. Could someone get one? 88.112.62.154 (talk) 20:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Source

 * https://web.archive.org/web/20000604034129/http://www.gamecenter.com:80/Features/Exclusives/Rainbowsix/
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20000309053625/http://pc.ign.com:80/news/9461.html

Nato countries
In the plot section it says "composed of elite soldiers from NATO countries, Brazil, Spain, Austria, Sweden, Australia, Russia, and Israel" Russia is NOT a NATO country. Nithintalk 17:40, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Kōfu

How can a city
that was founded in 1889 have been a stronghold of Takeda Shingen in the 16th century? Frjwoolley 20:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.html

Good point, the history date is changed to 1519.

Shoppingmall and Departmentstore
I will remove some less notable or unsourced events from the list and put them here. Feelfree to discuss. I have rough criteria in mind, but typing them would be too long. The years are missing from the copied elements.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.23.5.48 (talk) 03:35, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Okajima Departmentstore
 * Yamanashi Kotsu Departmentstore
 * Gran Park
 * Barrio Eastmall Shopping Center

External links modified
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title: Talk:Kōfu