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Talk:Sublime (philosophy)

--220.225.109.170 (talk) 19:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

phenomenology
Is anyone wrestling with the issue of the phenomenology of the sublime?
 * The above question from an anonymous user cannot be answered until the interrogator precisely expresses the sense and meaning of the words "phenomenolo--220.225.109.170 (talk) 19:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

gy" and "sublime." Both of these words have several meanings and are therefore very ambiguous. Any wrestling with issues concerning them cannot begin until only one meaning is agreed upon by the wrestlers.Lestrade 14:52, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Lestrade

Noumenal Realm
It seems to me that there is no reference to this area of knowledge in Kant's Observations on the Feeling of the Beautiful and Sublime. Where, in his works, does he relate the feeling of the sublime with the so-called Noumenal realm?Lestrade 14:24, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Lestrade
 * (Later) Looking through the Critique of Judgment, I found no reference to the Noumenal realm in regard to the feeling of the sublime. Where are the relevant passages?Lestrade 19:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Lestrade
 * (Later yet) The feeling of the sublime has to do with relatively large space, time, or causality. These are strictly related to phenomena. Noumena have nothing to do with them.Lestrade 20:27, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Lestrade

The noumenal realm comes up in Kant's discussion of the sublime in the Critique of Judement. Perhaps he doesn't use exactly this phrase; but he does discuss the sublime as access to the 'supersensual' (übersinnliche) realm. This supersensual realm is the realm of Ideas rather than the phenomenal, and can surely be identified with the noumenal. see e.g. SS25: "Nothing, therefore, which can be an object of the senses is to be termed sublime when treated on this footing. But precisely because there is a striving in our imagination towards progress ad infinitum, while reason demands absolute totality, as a real idea, that same inability on the part of our faculty for the estimation of the magnitude of things of the world of sense to attain to this idea, is the awakening of a feeling of a supersensible faculty within us"; SS23: " the sublime, in the strict sense of the word, cannot be contained in any sensuous form, but rather concerns ideas of reason, which, although no adequate presentation of them is possible, may be excited and called into the mind by that very inadequacy itself which does admit of sensuous presentation. Thus the broad ocean agitated by storms cannot be called sublime. Its aspect is horrible, and one must have stored one's mind in advance with a rich stock of ideas, if such an intuition is to raise it to the pitch of a feeling which is itself sublime-sublime because the mind has been incited to abandon sensibility and employ itself upon ideas involving higher finality."

Since the original entry of the "noumenal realm" this article was rewritten. The claim that "This supersensual realm is the realm of Ideas rather than the phenomenal, and can surely be identified with the noumenal" may not be a NPOV and should be substantaited through citation. The assertion "surely be identified" is not NPOV.Amerindianarts 12:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Ambiguity
The word "sublime" designates more than one concept. For that reason, it is ambiguous and not readily understood. It seems to have been derived from the Latin "sub limis" which could mean "standing in a doorway and looking up at the high lintel." At one time, this article contained much information on the various subsequent meanings. However, on September 24, 2005, user Amerindianarts deleted those passages because they were thought to be original work.

The word has a history that deserves a place in this article. Longinus, Boileau, Baillie, Dennis, Shaftesbury, Addison, Kant, and Schopenhauer had important notions about the sublime that should be included here in the future.Lestrade 16:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Lestrade

 * I wrote the entry which I deleted. It has been republished at ezines.com as "The Sublime in Eighteenth Century Philosophy".  I also deleted the entries I made in the Kant article on the sections of "Rationalism and Empiricism" and Kant's "Ontological Argument". I deleted them because the later entries were challenged as original, so I deleted all my Kant entries across Wikipedia.  I am well versed on Kant but don't have time to argue with the fuzzy thinkers who are self-proclaimed Kantian experts (and there are plenty at Wiki).  My entries for the Kant article were really common knowledge, even though you won't find much on Kant in regard to "Rationalism and Empiricism".  After that I curtailed my intentions to include the Romantic period and subsequent later developments in the sublime (e.g. Max Dessoir).  In regard to the noumenal aspect of the sublime in Kant, it is not explicitly stated to my knowledge, but it is there implicitly, i.e. the experience of beauty depends upon seeing natural objects as though they were somehow the artifacts of cosmic reason bent on being intelligible to us, and the experience of the sublime makes use of the natural formlessness and fearfulness to celebrate reason itself. Amerindianarts 20:48, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The entries on the history of the feeling of the sublime did not seem, to me, to be original research. They had, in my opinion, value in making clear this unclear concept. In reference to the Noumenal realm, I must admit that the "cosmic reason" is totally unintelligible to me.Lestrade 14:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC)Lestrade

The "sublime" and the "Grand Tour" are well documented and reflected in the sources I gave. The original part would probably be the influences of Addison, Shaftesbury, and Dennis on Kant and perhaps the take on Kant's sublime which isn't covered in the sources (explicitly). If you feel I should reinsert it and use Schoepenhauer to begin the Romantic period, let me know and I will do it. As far as "cosmic reason", it is a reference to Kant's distinction between the transcendent and the transcendental and that the feeling of the sublime is an exaltation and not something to be described. Work here would be original, I think. In regard to Boileau and Baillie, I am not familiar with these individuals. Are they philosophers, or artists, or writers??Amerindianarts 14:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Baillie & Boileau
Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux translated Longinus's treatise On the Sublime. He defined the concept as that which uplifts, ravishes, and transports the reader by being extraordinary, striking, marvelous, and surprising.

John Baillie was a physician in the British military. In 1747 he published An Essay on the Sublime. In it, he defined the sublime entirely in terms of the response of the spectator. This was similar to Kant's description of the subjective effects of the sublime, without regard to external objects. (See "Translator's Introduction," Observations on the Feeling of the Beautiful and Sublime, Immanuel Kant, Translated by John T. Goldthwait.)

Speaking of the history of the concept, I found that important contributions were also made by Schiller in his two essays on the sublime. Also, the Encyclopédiste Chevalier de Jaucourt, in the French Encyclopedia of 1765 (see List of contributors to the Encyclopédie), claimed that the sublime was that which raises or elevates the reader or spectator and makes him/her feel the elevation.Lestrade 17:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)Lestrade

Yes, Schiller was the first to use Kant's aesthetic principles, but the beautiful and the sublime were merged into the absolute in Schelling. After that, Schopenhauer is really the only major figure to treat the sublime as distinct from beauty until Dessoir revitailzed Kant's aesthetics. The twentienth century seems to have been void of the sublime as a concept in philosophy, and was limited to the artists themselves. The eighteenth century seems to have been the hey-day for the sublime.Amerindianarts 21:42, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I reinserted the chronology for the eighteenth century. I limited my chronology to the development in Kant, only because Kant was the first to treat it systematically in a theory of aesthetics. Have at it. I really don't think the German idealists after Kant added that much, other than to merge the sublime and beauty in the Absolute. I think Dessoir did make a noteworthy contribution in the late nineteenth/twentieth century. Amerindianarts 02:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Flavors of Sublime
I am thinking it would be very helpful to those interested in the sublime to have a few words on this page that distinguish the Theoretical Sublime (i.e. Kant and Burke, et. al.) from the Egotistical Sublime, which would bear mentioning in the section of the article re. Romantic writers and their conceptions of the Sublime, and the Sublime's use in the arts. Unfortunately, I am not the one to write this, but I would love to see it here. I also believe that philosophers working in aesthetics tend to have very different notions of the sublime than artists who display an interest or use of the sublime in their works and/or essays. Specifically here, I'm thinking of those like, say, Wordsworth, Coleridge, Blake or Keats' notion of Sublime versus the thinkers mentioned on this page. Perhaps there should be some distinguishing between the theory of the sublime (aesthetics/philosophy) and the sublime in the arts (art history/criticism).

 * That may be a good idea, but the question would be whether this page should be sectioned, or another article started elsewhere, e.g. sublime (art history/criticisms). There are a lot of other articles that could have this info.  The current article is "sublime (philosophy)" and the title suggests that going outside of this discipline would warrant criticisms from philosophers editing these articles.Amerindianarts 18:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The "philosophy" part is just to distinguish it from completely unreleated things, like the band or the physical process. I would feel free to add information from other humanities disciplines and change the title accordingly.  I think a unified article would make clearer distinctions between multiple definitions. -- Beland 21:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

You are proposing that sublime (philosophy) be deleted and the info merged into an article entitled what? The sublime?Amerindianarts 20:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

OK. What you are asking doesn't make any sense at all. The detailed explanations you request would require a considerably lengthy essay, and you want to include this with the other humanities? I do assume that you as well as other readers at least have access to a dictionary. Until you provide a more reasonable plan, these tags are gone. Amerindianarts 21:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Nietzsche's treatment of the Sublime would also merit a mention. Gaberlunzie 09:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Style cleanup
The article in many places goes on for a long time describing the philosophy of a particular person without attributing anything to them. Instead of writing "X says Y is Z", it says "Y is Z". The end result is that it sounds like the encyclopedia is making pronouncements on the nature of the sublime.

Confusing points
I think some of the writers mentioned were writing in languages other than English. What words did they actually use to describe "the sublime"?

 * Prior to the eighteenth century sublime was a rhetoric term predominately relevant to literary criticism.

And what was the meaning of "sublime" to the study of rhetoric?

 * Burke's concept of the sublime was a stark contrast to the classical notion of aesthetic quality in Plato's Philebus, Ion, and Symposium, and suggested ugliness as an aesthetic quality.

This is very confusing without knowing what is meant by "aesthetic quality". I'm not sure if that is term the encyclopedia is using, or if it comes from the philosophers themselves.

 * In accordance with his critical method of the first two Critiques, Kant poses the question "How are judgments of taste possible?" In other words, how can we be certain that a judgment concerning aesthetic quality can be known to be universally true?

The article does not say whether or not Kant claimed that aesthetic judgments are universal. If so, that's an interesting and controversial position to defend.

 * The sublime, on the other hand, was for Kant a feeling of satisfaction celebrating reason itself and our capacity as moral beings. The feeling is experienced when our imagination fails to comprehend the vastness of the infinite and we become aware of the ideas of reason and their representation of the totality of the universe, as well as those powers that operate in the universe which we do not grasp and are beyond our control.

I'm not sure what is meant by "celebrating reason itself". The second sentence seems to say that a sublime feeling, in Kant's view, is an appreciation of one's failure to comprehend the vastness (and other aspects). If it's nothing more complicated than that, then it should probably just say that. I'm also not sure what is meant by "our capacity as moral beings". Is this a reference to our ability to tell right from wrong? If so, how is that related to the feeling you get when you fail to comprehend the vastness of the universe?

 * The feeling is at once existential in that we realize our own finitude, or smallness,

A definition for "existential" would be very helpful here. There is an article on existentialism which could be linked to. But it is unclear whether an encyclopedia author is labeling this as existential, or if Kant himself thought so, and this should be fixed. Is "finitude" even a word, or shouldn't that be "finiteness"?

 * but is universal in the realization of our own moral worth as an autonomous being belonging to the fraternity of mankind which shares a moral destiny through its capacity to apply the moral laws of practical reason

Is "fraternity of mankind" a phrase of Kant? If we're paraphrasing, this should be replaced with something gender-neutral like "human species". If we're quoting, this should be in quotes, with a reference. What is the "moral destiny" of humanity? It should be made clear that Wikipedia does not think the human race has a moral destiny; this is an idea of Kant's.

 * The judgments of the sublime arise from two principles of reason, the mathematical and the dynamic, which are both elements that have a common thread throughout Kant's writings on pure and practical reason.

It would perhaps be useful to give examples or better explain the "mathematical" and "dynamic" principles. It's nice that these are named here, but no one not already familiar with Kant's work is going to know what they mean.

 * In his discussion of the sublime in the Critique of Judgment, Kant distinguishes between the sensible concept of measuring things by comparison, and an absolute which as a concept of reason defies comparison and is "great beyond every standard of the senses". It is the same concept of reason that Kant refers to in the Critique of Practical Reason as a source of free, uncaused activity, and in the Critique of Pure Reason as the Unconditioned which unifies and completes the conditioned knowledge of the understanding.  The sublime is the satisfaction derived from the realization of this concept of reason and its aim at infinite totality.

"This concept of reason" is mentioned only in reference to things that it explains, but the idea itself is never explained. What "concept of reason" is it that generates a "sublime" feeling when you become aware of it? Or is that feeling simply the awe at lack of comprehension of the vastness (etc.) of the universe which was explained earlier?

 * Towards the end of the eighteenth century other philosophers would utilize Kant's aesthetic theory and his notion of the unconditioned to try and reconcile the knower and the known, re-integrating the sublime and beauty in an Absolute which embodied the idealism that Kant had spent his career intent on refuting.

What is Kant's "notion of the unconditioned"? Why to "the knower" and "the known" need reconciling, i.e. what philosophical problem is at issue here? What does that have to do with the sublime? Where can we learn more about this "Absolute" and who are these later philosophers, anyway?

-- Beland 22:32, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

After rereading the article there do seem to be some valid points in the your critique, but I also think that in writing an article you have to assume that the reader is going to bring a rudimentary knowledge of words and definitions with them. Your call for some explanations are linked to (e.g Unconditioned) and anything more may really not be relevant to the current article. The article's content should remain within the scope of the title "Sublime (philosophy)", meaning that an explanation of Kant's epistemology and ontology is better served elsewhere and here isn't the place for it. Some of these comments seem to indicate that the article was not read with any degree of attention, e.g. "The article does not say whether or not Kant claimed that aesthetic judgments are universal. If so, that's an interesting and controversial position to defend." Later in the article this is explained. Like I said, how much baggage can you assume that the reader is going to bring with them?

I find most of the points made here as fairly mundane and due to a lack of familiarity with the subject matter. If you are an expert and want to have a go at it, then do it. Amerindianarts 23:16, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

After rereading the article I see that most of the points are linked to other parts of Wiki. Many of the definitions that are called for may also lead to a questionable neutral point of view according to Wiki policy. Linking to "existentialism" may also be confusing conceptually, which is why I didn't (somebody's lack of familiarity with the concepts?), but linking to existentialism might be confusing. I think the article alludes by analogy to the deduction of the Aesthetic in the CPR, and that judgments of taste can therefore be implied as a possibility for objectivity. I wrote most of this, and at one time deleted it as original work. It was other's opinion that it should be reinserted. I have no qualms if it is reverted again. None. If I do any further work on this article it will be for the original article I wrote at ezines.com.

I also changed "references" to "bibliography", hoping to distinguish the notion of "further reading" from the actual references used for the article. For the sake of balance, You may want to recruit another expert, or if you are an expert, do it yourself. Amerindianarts 23:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is the clean-up icon on this page?? Shouldn't it be placed on the article page? Amerindianarts 13:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Victor Hugo
Re: Victor Hugo-I don't think the website cited substantiates all the claims made in this edit. The claims need substantiated by a secondary source. The entry may also conflict with the chronological format of the article, and perhaps should be moved below Schopenhauer.Amerindianarts 03:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Was Hugo's endorsement of Lipton Green Tea mentioned in that section when you wrote the above? In any case, I've deleted that bit. Unfortunately, I don't have time for a more thorough revision at the moment. 65.213.77.129 (talk) 19:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Note on editing
Too many edits are being made to this page without proper citation. To refer to a general work and then provide a synopsis paragraph with uncited claims and quotes doesn't work. All too often editors are providing an original source with a secondary source summary without citing the source, or quotes. If you read it, you can cite it. If not properly cited it fails Wiki policy in two ways, (1)unverifiable, and (2)appears as original work, both prohibited at Wiki. Claims unverifed will be marked with resulting in

. After a few days, if not corrected, will be removed. Amerindianarts 02:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Natural Degeneration
The following sentence is included in the lead: "Later writers tend to include the sublime in the beautiful." This describes the normal tendency of things to decay over time, called entropy. Intelligent writers, like Edmund Burke and Immanuel Kant, spent much energy and effort describing the distinction between the feelings of the sublime and the beautiful. With careless abandon, later writers come and ignorantly mix them back together, so that future generations will not understand the concepts and will ambiguously use either one arbitrarily.Lestrade 13:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

Burke
Given that Burke's treatise is almost as influential as Kant's, and certainly more influential than Schopenhauer's (based purely on the number of articles written on each in the last 20 years) I think he probably deserves his own section. Currently, the information on Burke is just some references to Greek theorists ideas of the Beautiful. I can start this section off, though I can't provide very much information right now. Perhaps another section on the distinction between the sublime and the beautiful would be merited as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomascochrane (talk • contribs) 14:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Addison
I would just like to note that the famous Addison line "the alps fill the mind with an agreeable kind of horror" is systematically misquoted in various sources, notably the Dictionary of the History of Ideas http://etext.virginia.edu/cgi-local/DHI/dhi.cgi?id=dv4-44 which suggests it appears in the Spectator. Elsewhere it is referred to extremely vaguely. After several hours of searching, I finally pinned down this reference to another book (see reference on main page). I put this note here in the hope that no one else will have to suffer the same pain it put me through (I have to do this for a living!). In future, I urge people to check primary sources, or at least reliable secondary sources (with exact page numbers!) for quotations.

Hegelian problems
The section on Hegel has two misleading passages. The first misleading passage states that "oriental artists were more inclined towards the aesthetic and the sublime: they could engage god only through 'sublimated' means." Sublimation has nothing to do with the sublime. Sublimation, in this sense, means to make nobler or purer, that is, less naturalistically physical and more abstractly spiritual. The sublime, however, is the experience of fearful pleasure in the presence of immense space, time, or causality. The second misleading passage claims that a spectator experiences an overwhelming aesthetic sense of awe when viewing the disembodiment and formlessness of intricate detail or metrical patterns. Spectacles of awesome detail or geometrical patterns, however, have nothing to do with immensity and are therefore obviously not sublime.Lestrade (talk) 15:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Lestrade

Romanticism
Hello,

This articles nearly jumps from British 18th century to German late 19th and 20th. However, the idea of sublime is central in romantic thought, especially in France (Stendhal, Victor Hugo, Charles Baudelaire). It would be interesting to add a section about it - I stub'd it in the French version, with several important quotes that can be translated. Hope it helps, FredD (talk) 09:31, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sublime (philosophy)


text: User talk:207.177.241.28

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:207.177.241.28


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Talk:Concentration measurements

I am going to change this page to a redirecto to the Concentration page. That page covers the same topic as here but has a longer history, is better developed, and is integrated with the other chemistry pages.

To original contributors: Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! You may find the Style_and_How-to_Directory page helpful as you plan your next contribution. Generally, it's a good idea to search Wikipedia first to see if a topic you wish to write content for already exists. We're a collaborative community so you will be welcome on the pages where you want to contribute. Tobycat 07:09, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

It seems very likely the original page was a copyright violation from so I have removed the history, leaving just the redirect to Concentration. Angela. 18:18, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Concentration measurements


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User talk:Upidipupi

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text: User talk:69.151.145.44

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Talk:Canopic jar

Why "Canopic" jars?
Why are these vessels called "Canopic"? Canopus was a locality in the Nile River Delta, at one of the Nile branches. How did these vessels come to carry its name? logologist 07:13, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Interesting question (i.e., one I'd never stopped to think about). Shaw & Nicholson's "Dictionary of Anc. Egypt" says Osiris was worshipped at Canopus in the form of a human-headed jar, and that by extension/confusion, early Egyptologists used 'canopic' for any similar stoppered jar. –Hajor 12:40, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean:
It's in the final paragraph of the article.

"The canopic jars hold for organs as the lungs a stuff the heart was not one of the organs."

I think this should either be deleted or cleaned up for clear understanding. --68.75.183.81 17:24, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I read in an article that they were named by the early explorers who discovered them because of a misunderstanding. Perhaps you should read this. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/canopic.htm

The pic of a "canopic jar"
There are lots, and lots of canopic jars on our planet, and a percentage are Not Egyptian. Any good pictures availabel?....--Michael,inHotYUMA,AzSonoran-Desert,,Mmcannis 13:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I found a picture and added it to the article. Canadiana 19:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Hudhud?
What is "hudhud"? The last line of the Decline section: "These were often left empty or filled with hudhud and straw." There are plenty of results on Google, but they seem to refer to "an oral epic recited over a period of many days by the Ifugao people of the Philippines", which isn't something I can imagine being placed in a jar.68.246.205.34 (talk) 15:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

what you put in a canopic jar
you put in the lungs,stomach,liver and the intestiens. there is four canopic jars,the falcon,jackal, humum and the baboon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.193.40.240 (talk) 16:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Needs to be better integrated
Probably due to piecemeal contributions over time that never got integrated together, the article mentions 3 times within the first 7 paragraphs that the faces on the jars represent the four sons of Horus. This whole first section needs to be smoothed out and better integrated to eliminate some of this repetition. - Mark Dixon (talk) 13:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It also makes several opposing statements about whether or not canopic jars have images of the gods on them, or their lids are in the shape of the gods' heads. Somebody who knows what they're talking about, please fix this. 76.27.211.75 (talk) 04:11, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've dealt with some of the above, the last two paragraphs still need work and referencing, as does Canopic chest which lacks any inline citations which articles should have. dougweller (talk) 22:25, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Canopic jar


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yashai Warcraft

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - kept - SimonP 02:18, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Yashai Warcraft
No evidence of notability. Probably a copyvio too, but I can't find it. --W(t) 07:13, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
 * This is not a copyright violation. To satisfy any concerns, you may contact the Yashai via www.blayshalla.com 68.122.80.73

 * Delete, not notable, games cruft . Megan1967 09:32, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not Wikipedia material. Keep and rewrite. --Sn0wflake 23:35, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * "not Wikipedia material" provides no information. By definition, an encyclopedia is a "comprehensive reference work" on a variety of subjects. Unless the encyclopedia is geared toward a handful of specific subjects/topics the article should not be deleted. 68.122.80.73

 * If this article is deleted, then other similar articles should also be discontinued/deleted: Karate, Kung Fu, Escrima, Jeet Kune Do, etc.
 * Those are notable, even outside of the martial arts community. People are arguing that this isn't notable or verifiable. (No vote.) A Man In Black 05:41, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Understood. However the founder, Blaise Loong, is a well recognized figure within the martial arts community. He has been on the cover of Full Contact and Filipino Martial Arts magazines, and has written several articles for Black Belt. I'm sure the author of the piece would be willing to re-write the article if you provide the specific problems with the current article.
 * Comment made by 68.122.80.73 (talk · contributions)
 * Keep. Can't say it's definitely copyvio; if it is, the offending material could be edited out. It is a minor fighting system, but as far as I can tell is sufficiently notable to be included. DDerby 08:32, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete notability not established. JamesBurns 09:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Here are some notable sites and magazines within the martial arts community that know Blaise Loong and of his system: http://www.fmadigest.com/Advertisement/systems.html (scroll down to the bottom of the webpage).

http://bahalana.com/Eskrima%20Links.htm (Bahalana is a world famous Filipino martial arts academy. On their links page is a link to Blaise Loong's website, among other well recognized martial systems). http://blayshalla.com/Blaise/MainFrame/MainFrame.htm (This page shows a few samples of articles that Blaise has even written for various well established martial arts magazines). http://www.planetyahyah.com/chronicles/karate/bio/se_sm.htm (Here's a bio on a well known karate expert. He lists Blaise and Yashai Warcraft among his current instructors).
 * Perhaps it seems notability is lacking because the voters are not involved in martial arts or in the martial community? Just my opinion because he is well known among fighters in the community, including UFC and Pride competitors. And anyone serious in the martial arts will definitely come across his name over and over again.

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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User:Protest

Protest

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The Creature Wasn't Nice

The Creature Wasn't Nice (also known as Naked Space and Spaceship) is a 1983 American comedy film written and directed by Bruce Kimmel. The film is a parody of Alien. It stars Leslie Nielsen in a role similar to those in the farcical comedies Airplane! and Naked Gun. It co-stars Cindy Williams, Gerrit Graham, and Patrick Macnee. It was released on VHS in 1983 under the title Spaceship to emphasize Nielsen's connection to Airplane!, and released on DVD in 1999 under the title Naked Space to play up the connection to Nielsen's Naked Gun films.

The film is a low-budget comedy with simple sets and dialogue wrapped around several musical numbers. In one of the scenes, the red slimy one-eyed alien monster performs a lounge-act style musical number called "I Want to Eat Your Face." Williams performs two musical numbers, one solo and one with Kimmel, who had previously appeared with and directed Williams in 1976 in The First Nudie Musical. The film was completely re-edited by the producers - that is what was released as Spaceship/Naked Space on home video. The original version, The Creature Wasn't Nice, was only seen at two public previews. In 2019, it was announced that both versions of the film would come to home video under its original title.

Cast

 * Leslie Nielsen - Captain Jamieson
 * Cindy Williams - Annie McHugh
 * Bruce Kimmel - John
 * Gerrit Graham - Rodzinski
 * Patrick Macnee - Dr. Stark
 * Ron Kurowski - The Creature
 * Paul Brinegar - Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry
 * Broderick Crawford - Voice of Max the Computer (uncredited) (Crawford's voice does not appear in Spaceship/Naked Space - it has been replaced.)

Production
Bruce Kimmel came up with the idea for the film in 1979 and successfully pitched it to Cindy Williams, with whom he had previously worked on The First Nudie Musical. Kimmel based the film upon his love of 1950s B-movie sci-fil films such as Target Earth, Tobor the Great, and The Angry Red Planet, as well as his distaste for more extreme forms of horror films that had risen in popularity such as Friday the 13th and The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, calling them "evil" and "despicable" films.

Al Schwartz of World Northal Corp. (who'd released Kimmel's cult film, The First Nudie Musical) optioned the project as his first in-house production after previously having specialized in distributing European films such as Bread and Chocolate and Cousin Cousine. The film's special effects were handled by Magic Lantern Organization, which had also worked on History of the World, Part I and Flicks.

Reception
TV Guide, reviewing the Spaceship version, gave the film one out of four stars, calling it a "misguided attempt at horror comedy". Cavett Binion, writing for Allmovie, also reviewing the re-cut version, called the film "painfully dull [...] [Patrick Macnee's] hammy performance provides one of the film's few real laughs [...] the lovely soft-shoe number "I Want to Eat Your Face" [provided] the film's other real laugh." Variety, reviewed the film under its original title at a public sneak preview in Westwood, called it "a likeably silly send-up of outer-space horror pix like 'Alien'".

title: The Creature Wasn't Nice


text:
Hup

Hup or HUP may refer to:

Art and music

 * Hup (album), a 1989 album by The Wonder Stuff
 * "Hüp", a single by Turkish singer Tarkan
 * Hup (comics), a series of four comics published by Last Gasp from 1986–1992 by R. Crumb

Organizations

 * Hanoi University of Pharmacy, in Vietnam
 * Harvard University Press, in Cambridge, Massachusetts
 * Howard University Press, in Washington, D.C.
 * Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia

Other uses

 * Hup people, an Amazonian indigenous people in Brazil and Colombia
 * Hup language a language of Brazil and Colombia
 * hup, the ISO 639 code for the Hupa language of California, United States
 * Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
 * Hungarian Unix Portal
 * Humphrey Park railway station, in England
 * HUP Retriever, a US Navy utility helicopter
 * SIGHUP, a Unix signal

title: Hup


text:
Talk:Humboldt's Gift

Untitled
Technically you can't win the Nobel for a single novel; I tried to change the phrasing to be a bit more accurate.

--dvyost Mar 30

Edits by 82.208.128.25
This fellow has been reverted a couple of times on this article. I'm somewhat mixed about doing it though, because it seems like he has something relevant to say, but the additions have a very strong POV and non-encyclopedic tone which I think prevents them from from being legitimate edits. Not to mention the removal of info already present. Could someone more familiar with the work than I take what he's done and make it not so slanted? -- stubblyh ea d | T/c 16:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Humboldt's Gift


text:
Keeping the Faith

Keeping the Faith is a 2000 American romantic comedy film written by Stuart Blumberg, and starring Ben Stiller, Edward Norton (in his directorial debut), Jenna Elfman, Eli Wallach, and Anne Bancroft. This film was released by Touchstone Pictures and Spyglass Entertainment, in association with Triple Threat Talent, on April 14, 2000.

The film is dedicated to Norton's late mother, Robin. It had a budget of $29 million.

Plot
In a New York City bar, a drunken Catholic priest, Brian Finn, tells the bartender about the ongoing love triangle involving him; his best friend Jake Schram, a Jewish rabbi; and their childhood friend, Anna Reilly.

Dedicated to his calling as priest since childhood, Brian shares the duties of his parish with the elderly Father Havel. Jake, inseparable from Brian since childhood, is the youngest rabbi at his synagogue; he focuses on his work to the detriment of his romantic life, much to the chagrin of his mother, Ruth. The duo actively seek to bring a more modern, albeit controversial, approach to religious services; they plan to open a jointly-sponsored interfaith karaoke community center. The pair reminisce about their childhood friend Anna. The three were close until Anna's family moved to California and they ultimately lost touch.

Sixteen years later, Anna returns to New York for work and the trio rekindle their friendship. Anna and Jake begin having casual sex. As they begin to develop mutual romantic feelings, their relationship is complicated by Anna not being a Jew, and by Brian, who finds himself in internal turmoil after also developing feelings for Anna. Finding himself in conflict with his vows, he seriously considers leaving the priesthood to pursue a romantic relationship with her.

At dinner, Ruth reveals to Anna that she knows about her and Jake's secret relationship. Later that night, Jake and Anna argue over the religious issues complicating their romance and breakup. Anna calls Brian for comfort and he rushes to her, taking her tearful ramblings to be a confession of feelings for him. Brian kisses Anna and confesses his love but she rebuffs him, revealing she is in love with Jake and they have been seeing each other secretly. Embarrassed and rejected, he spends the night binge drinking on the streets. The following morning, Brian stumbles into Jake's temple and interrupts a post-bar mitzvah gathering, resulting in a confrontation that ends when Brian punches Jake. Brian then finds his way into a bar and tells the bartender his story; the bartender offers Brian advice on how to remedy the situation. Brian then reaffirms his vows with Father Havel's guidance.

As the community center's grand opening approaches, Brian reconciles with Jake and Anna. Brian encourages Jake to follow his heart and reveal his true feelings to Anna before she returns to California. Interrupting Anna's going-away party, Jake sets things right. That evening, Jake and Anna surprise Brian at the community center. She reveals that she had been taking classes to convert to Judaism. Their relationship officially renewed, the trio pose for a celebratory photo.

Cast

 * Ben Stiller as Rabbi Jacob "Jake" Schram
 * Samuel R. Goldberg as Teenage Jake Schram

 * Edward Norton as Father Brian Kilkenney Finn
 * Michael Charles Roman as Teenage Brian Finn

 * Jenna Elfman as Anna Reilly
 * Blythe Auffarth as Teenage Anna Reilly

 * Anne Bancroft as Ruth Schram
 * Miloš Forman as Father Havel
 * Eli Wallach as Rabbi Ben Lewis
 * Holland Taylor as Bonnie Rose
 * Lisa Edelstein as Ali Decker
 * Rena Sofer as Rachel Rose
 * Bodhi Elfman as Howard the Casanova, the businessman in the office across the road
 * Brian George as Paulie Chopra, the Sikh Catholic Muslim with Jewish in-laws who owns an Irish Pub
 * Ron Rifkin as Larry Friedman
 * David Wain as Steve Posner
 * Eugene Katz as Mohel (performing the circumcision in opening sequence where Jake faints)
 * Ken Leung as Don, the electronics store owner
 * Susie Essman as Ellen Friedman
 * Catherine Lloyd Burns as Debbie
 * Radio Man (Craig Castaldo) as himself
 * Brian Anthony Wilson as T-Bone

Release
Buena Vista Pictures Distribution released the film in the United States and Canada, with Spyglass Entertainment handling international sales. Buena Vista International handled distribution in Latin America, United Kingdom, Australia and Singapore.

Reception
Keeping the Faith received generally positive reviews. On Rotten Tomatoes, it holds a 69% rating, sampled from 117 film critics, with an average score of 6.23/10. The consensus states: "A dramedy featuring an unusual love triangle, Keeping the Faith is a perceptive look at how religion affects us in everyday life." Metacritic gives the film a score of 60 out of 100, based on reviews from 31 critics, indicating "mixed or average reviews". The New York Times film critic Elvis Mitchell said the film "struggles hard to be a modern romantic comedy about commitment and, well, faith, but it doesn't quite make the grade ... it is competent, but it seems driven to clear up complications as quickly as acne is dispatched in an infomercial." In Variety, Emanuel Levy praised Stiller's acting and said "Keeping the Faith is arguably the most accomplished" romantic movie in its era.

Box office
The film opened at #3 at the US box office, making $8,078,671 in its opening weekend, behind 28 Days and Rules of Engagement. The film eventually grossed $37,047,880 in North America and $22,897,303 in other territories, totaling $59,945,183 worldwide.

title: Keeping the Faith


text:
Talk:National security

Recent reversions
Regarding the recent arbitrary reversion, talk through your issues here. 203.198.237.30 03:14, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

National security at Wikipedia
Decent enough article to start off with. I'm going to rework the opening hook a little bit but keep the essence of it intact. --Rev Prez 07:18, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I have deleted " since many of the sources of global insecurity today (such as terrorism and global warming) are immune to unilateral state military responses." from the section of Human Security, and have moved it to the previous section " Criticism of national security", to go with other criticisms. Sannieauyeung (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)SannieauyeungSannieauyeung (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

i don't think national defense and national security should be merged.
This is a preliminary post while i gather my thoughts and sources.

I don't belive the two should be mereged... the first thing that comes to mind is that national security is not limited to within a nations boders, while defense typically is; and second that security implies keeping something "out", while defense has no such connotations.

(This comment posted on 3 December 2005 by User:Mitayai (203.198.237.30))

"preservation of national culture..."
Nzzl, what does the last dot point mean(Really): "preserve a national culture unfamiliar with true dissent or antinationalism, especially in the most mainstream entertainment spaces"? Can you please edit for clarity? 203.198.237.30 08:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * hey bro. where you been? the non-complete sentence pattern in the other bullets is not easy to work with. hmm. perhaps you disagree that the "national culture" (a rough idea I'll admit) is indeed unfamiliar w/ true dissent or anti-nationalism? and the last part is worded a little retarded unless you'r already thinking like I do. - mainstream entertainment is one of the best places (if you were a pro-gov info-warrior) to preserve "pro-gov" thought- aka "patriotism" more/less. Where does public support for wars come from? I'll be back like tomorrow. we'll work something out. something like that 02:37, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * PS- can you getta name? I don't insist on a userpage w/ any content but name would be nice. I'm sure you'd prefer to blend into the sea of numbers. not that you do when one looks at the content of your edits. time to become neo, mr. anderson. step up.

hawks, doves, ultrahawks (etc)
Hi Nzzl, I think that the use of terms like "hawks" (etc) and "non-terrorist folk" are not appropriate here...but any haggling over such terminology has been overtaken by a reworking of certain paragraphs in light of your edits. 203.198.237.30 03:13, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * sounds good. ultrahawks should so be it's own article. check out G. William Domhoff's Who Rules America?. he talks about how the the upper social circles in government are mostly dominated by conservatives and ultraconservatives. I gott read that jaun again tho it is becoming dated. something like that 07:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * IGNORED on the name thing. to resist is to piss in the wind...something like that

curbing pollution
I removed this from the top, although it may in fact be true...

* curbing pollution to ensure edible food and clean water supply and to decrease the potential for abrupt climate change

It seems to be a stretch of the meaning of the word "national security" as originally applied... I won't object if someone throws it back in, but it seems to require an example to justify its inclusion.. more so than the other examples at the top.. LordBrain 17:48, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Concept of Threat and National Security
This section is in urgent need of a total rewrite. The original editor clearly does not have English as his/her native language, the material is not of sufficient generality for the subject matter, and it is filled with unreferenced claims and the author's own points of view. I didn't delete the section because it makes good sense to have a "Concept" section here. I may be able to rewrite this someday, but it needs help today. — Aetheling 18:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I've had a go at this article but it's only a start for someone else to play with. - Adrian Pingstone 21:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just edited the section and changed the name of the heading and added content from other subsection. Citations are needed to back the claims made. Brz7 19:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Does not cite
This page does not cite its sources. However, I can't tell where in the page to place the tag. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.255.122.196 (talk) 15:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Ditto: looking for citations, finding few. Internal/External security? Where's that from? etc. thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.143.154 (talk) 02:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

"National Security and Rights & Freedoms"
I put the tag on this section because it reads like a lecture from an advocate or advocacy organization. Specifically, the questions posed to the reader about this are suggesting a POV and are unencyclopedic, despite the fact that I agree with them in principle.

tellin you
this may need a little updating, but just look at the structure, the tone and the no redlinks. I think ppl don't know it used to be this good. and the rest of you aren't really focused on making it good. Ban-gher-ang (talk) 00:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed Fix: National Security of the United States
I believe the correct conceptual move would be to re-title this article "National Security of the United States." A parallel case is "Conservatism in the United States." There would then be a recognized body of knowledge and discourse that contributors could cite and describe. Unless anyone has strong objections to this I will edit this page accordingly. Timoleon212 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timoleon212 (talk • contribs) 14:26, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Addition of feminist material/Hillary doctrine
In this dif, a new user User:Iwanwilliams123 added a long section that had some content on feminist theories of national security based mostly on one source (a book, with no pages cited) and a section on the "hillary doctrine" (based on a single Atlantic article), with no edit note. I reverted in this dif, with edit note "not encyclopedic, mainstream discourse. prob. too much WP:WEIGHT. please bring to Talk as per WP:BRD". The next day, Iwanwilliams123 reverted in this dif, again with no edit note. I left a note on Iwanwilliams123's Talk page, in this dif and have opened this thread.

Iwanwilliams123, I have two main issues.
 * 1) There is a concept called "weight" (see WP:WEIGHT) that we use in editing Wikipedia, that is a key part of one of the five pillars of WIkipedia, namely, that articles must have a "neutral point of view"  - the whole pillar is here.  As the section on "Due and undue weight" describes, a given article must give physical space to a given topic, that is correlated with the prevalence and importance of that topic in reliable sources that discuss the whole topic.   One of the biggest issues with the content you added, is that it gives a lot of weight to feminist analysis in general, and to the Hillary Doctrine in particular, that is out of sync with the importance of this topic in an overall article on National security.  I could see it potentially being a whole article in and of itself but in an article about the topic of National security overall, it needs to have appropriate weight.
 * 2) More tricky, are notions of tone and encyclopedic content.  The key policy document here is the 1st pillar, which describes what Wikipedia is, and what it is not.  See WP:NOT.  We strive to write in encyclopedic tone, and to reflect what mainstream, secondary sources say on a topic;  we do not publish original thought, and we are not a soapbox for any single point of view.  Much of the content that you added was essay-like, with sweeping generalizations that were not grounded in specific sources.  Also, some of the content you added was off-topic and not focused on the subject of the article, national security.

In my edits today, I moved the content into the "elements" section and edited it down to give it appropriate WEIGHT, part of which involved removing essay-like content and off-topic content. Happy to discuss.Jytdog (talk) 13:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Serious article?
This is supposed to be serious article but recently activists post text and sources and they are totally different. Sources need to be sources and to claim what is writen. AaronGray (talk) 00:06, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * AaronGray - I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate further and explain?  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   00:07, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * AaronGray Please be collaborative and discuss here first. To answer your question about whether the Swedish and Spanish security strategies mention militarisation: the Swedish one on p. 12 mentions as security challenges the rearmament of Russia and the increased NATO presence in the Baltics; the Spanish on on p.24 mentions the illicit proliferation of arms and on p. 30 the proliferation of nuclear weapons - all evidence of these two states' concerns about militarisation as a security challenge. They are not the only sources that could be used for this, but I believe they suffice. In addition, both states mention the other issues noted in the same sentence, which were also deleted in your edit. The same two paras also emphasise the importance to states of military defence. Do you still have concerns about this? Fugitivedave (talk) 00:26, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Militarization is too big therm to be used, and it is not used in that word. Proliferation of nuclear weapons, should be writen there instead, it is something about what many governments agree. Spanish and swedish papers can t be example for all governments. Sources is important, let say, if I take Heritage foundation source all what you wrote could be changed and removed. There need to be some balance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AaronGray (talk • contribs) 01:47, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Abuse of the concept of national security
This article could use some info how allegations have been made (especially in the U.S.) against the military industrial complex, multinational corporations, etc. of claiming national security interests in going to war or buying weapons, messing in other countries politics, overthrowing other governments/leaders, etc. when in fact they where simply trying to line theirs or other's pockets. The fact is the many critics of u.s. foreign policy has accused the U.S. of relying on a vague definition national so as justify all sorts of questionable actions aimed at making money for corporations or individuals while either not really benefiting the national interest (i.e. Vietnam war) or even harming the national interest (i.e. the Iraq War, leading to the rise of Isis, leading to Isis terrorism). National security, like the similar term national interest, is a vague term easily abused, something many notable critics have pointed out in the past, not just with the U.S. but with other nations such as Israel, Russia, U.K., Saudi Arabia, etc) and as such, their views should be included in this article. --Notcharliechaplin (talk) 01:09, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Confused definitions
Why is it that the overview sections of some nations (such as China) seem wholly concerned with its internal security apparatus and abuses, while with others (such as the United States) the overview is solely concerned with the military and external security and seems to leave people with the impression that parallel organizations to the ones in China don’t exist?

The FBI‘s security department in the United States serves the role of internal security organization analogous to China’s Ministry of State Security. Of course people will object and say that the FBI has legal limits on its behavior and such that other organizations do not - but such organizations, by their very nature, are notoriously difficult to limit and control, and the FBI has been well documented before to use various tactics such as illegal surveillance, torture, and even assassination, and it has done so with the explicit purpose of suppressing political opposition it found disagreeable (see COINTELPRO).

The thing is that it’s extremely difficult to pass a law that effectively binds the enforcer of the law, they do not investigate and punish themselves, so such safeguards become advisory at best. The most these legal guarantees can really provide is protection from information obtained through such methods being used against someone in court of law, however, the methods of suppression often do not involve legal charges so this is of limited utility. Such methods are always claimed to be a thing of the past, but we keep on finding examples of them being used again. The security agencies word on this is of very limited use, as they have always claimed to not be doing this stuff at all times when they were. And infiltration, monitoring, and disruption of emerging political movements (especially on the left) is definitely ongoing to this day.

The problem with the framing of national security between these nations, it’s simply a narrative that is in service of the particular national security goals of the United States. It is of course a desirable narrative for any one power, to describe the national security policy of a rival as just the evil government bullying and spying on the people who are desperate to rise up, and to downplay and not mention their external national security at all because that can’t conceivably have any legitimate role in protecting the people can it. While the opposite is true of the power itself, it’s national security policy is purely about it’s proud external security apparatus protecting the people from the vast multitude of threats from abroad that threaten to swoop down at any moment and take away their peace and happiness, and as for internal security let’s just not talk about that, the people are perfectly happy and would never think of rebellion, or it’s solely targeted at “foreign terrorists” and the like or something, and plus it’s perfectly all above board and never does anything bad because there are some words on a piece of paper telling them not to.

A balanced view on this subject would admit that America’s internal security apparatus exists, that it is in fact sometimes targeted towards the civilian populace, and that it has been well known to participate in abuses. It would also probably dedicate more to describing the military of America’s enemies than a few words stating it exists, as if it doesn’t really have any strategy and has no legitimate reason to exist because nobody has anything to fear from America of course.2601:140:8900:61D0:8CE1:2CB7:AB8B:8865 (talk) 16:13, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Please suggest specific article changes based on what What Wikipedia defines as WP:Reliable sources See the WP:Talk page guidelines too NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:54, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Roles of citizens in promoting national security
1. Citizens must keep to law and order of the country. 2. All citizens must be patriotic. 3. They must be ready to provide necessary information to the security agencies when the need arise. 4. Every citizens must be very careful not to keep largeeeee sum of money at home use the bank. 105.112.190.93 (talk) 17:37, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:41, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * F-14A VF-114 over burning Kuwaiti oil well 1991.JPEG

title: Talk:National security


text: User talk:203.94.135.38

title: User talk:203.94.135.38


text:
User talk:Dbenbenn/movies

You didn't like Quills? I loved it. Thought Joaquin Phoenix should have gotten the Oscar nom for that, instead of Gladiator. RickK 07:19, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, people keep saying Quills was good, but I just couldn't stand it. dbenbenn | talk 06:02, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dbenbenn/movies


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kelly Bundy

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Redirect to Married... with Children. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Kelly Bundy
Substub that just repeats information in the Married... with Children article. I love the show, but if Al Bundy is just a redirect to the original article, this page should be too. ral 315  07:19, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect (you needn't have VfDed it for that). --W(t) 07:25, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
 * This article was redirected, and The Inedible Bulk reverted. These fictional characters don't stand on their own. Redirect again. Uncle G 15:23, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
 * Redirect. --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 17:25, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect and bundify that puppy. :) — RJH 19:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect. -- BD2412  talk  21:51, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Married... with Children. There's more and better info there already. Double Blue  (Talk) 04:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Holy anointing oil

The holy anointing oil formed an integral part of the ordination of the priesthood and the High Priest as well as in the consecration of the articles of the Tabernacle (Exodus 30:26) and subsequent temples in Jerusalem. The primary purpose of anointing with the holy anointing oil was to sanctify, to set the anointed person or object apart as, or "holy" (Exodus 30:29).

Originally, the oil was used exclusively for the priests and the Tabernacle articles, but its use was later extended to include kings (1 Samuel 10:1). It was forbidden to be used on an outsider (Exodus 30:33) or to be used on the body of any common person (Exodus 30:32a) and the Israelites were forbidden to duplicate any like it for themselves (Exodus 30:32b).

Some segments of Christianity have continued the practice of using holy anointing oil as a devotional practice, as well as in various liturgies. A variant form, known as oil of Abramelin, is used in Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, the ecclesiastical arm of Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.), an international fraternal initiatory organization devoted to promulgating the Law of Thelema.

A number of religious groups have traditions of continuity of the holy anointing oil, with part of the original oil prepared by Moses remaining to this day. These groups include rabbinical Judaism, the Armenian Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Coptic Church, the Saint Thomas Nazrani churches, and others.

Biblical recipe
The holy anointing oil described in Exodus 30:22–25 was created from:

 * Pure myrrh 500 shekels (about 6 kg)
 * Sweet cinnamon 250 shekels (about 3 kg)
 * "Fragrant cane" (, sometimes translated as calamus) 250 shekels (about 3 kg)
 * Cassia 500 shekels (about 6 kg)
 * Olive oil one  (about 6 L, or 5.35 kg)

Identification of
While sources agree about the identity of four of the five ingredients of anointing oil, the identity of the fifth,, has been a matter of debate. The Bible indicates that it was an aromatic cane or grass, which was imported from a distant land by way of the spice routes, and that a related plant grows in Israel (kaneh bosem is referenced as a cultivated plant in the Song of Songs 4:14. Several different plants have been named as possibly being the.

Acorus calamus
Most lexicographers, botanists, and biblical commentators translate as "cane balsam". The Aramaic Targum Onkelos renders the Hebrew in Aramaic as. Ancient translations and sources identify this with the plant variously referred to as sweet cane, or sweet flag (the Septuagint, the Rambam on Kerithoth 1:1, Saadia Gaon and Jonah ibn Janah). This plant is known to botanists as Acorus calamus. According to Aryeh Kaplan in The Living Torah, "It appears that a similar species grew in the Holy Land, in the Hula region in ancient times (Theophrastus, History of Plants 9:7)."

Cymbopogon
Maimonides, in contrast, indicates that it was the Indian plant, rosha grass (Cymbopogon martinii), which resembles red straw. Many standard reference works on Bible plants by Michael Zohary (University of Jerusalem, Cambridge, 1985), James A. Duke (2010), and Hans Arne Jensen (Danish 2004, English translation 2012) support this conclusion, arguing that the plant was a variety of Cymbopogon. James A. Duke, quoting Zohary, notes that it is "hopeless to speculate" about the exact species, but that Cymbopogon citratus (Indian lemon-grass) and Cymbopogon schoenanthus are also possibilities. Kaplan follows Maimonides in identifying it as the Cymbopogon martinii or palmarosa plant.

Cannabis
Sula Benet, in Early Diffusion and Folk Uses of Hemp (1967), identified it as cannabis. Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan notes that "On the basis of cognate pronunciation and Septuagint readings, some identify Keneh bosem with the English and Greek cannabis, the hemp plant." Benet argued that equating Keneh Bosem with sweet cane could be traced to a mistranslation in the Septuagint, which mistook Keneh Bosem, later referred to as "cannabos" in the Talmud, as "kalabos", a common Egyptian marsh cane plant.

In the ancient Near East
Customs varied in the cultures of the Middle East. However, anointing with special oil in Israel was either a strictly priestly or kingly right. When a prophet was anointed, it was because he was first a priest. When a non-king was anointed, such as Elijah's anointing of Hazael and Jehu, it was a sign that Hazael was to become king of Aram (Syria) and Jehu was to become king of Israel. Extra-biblical sources show that it was common to anoint kings in many ancient Near Eastern monarchies. Therefore, in Israel, anointing was not only a sacred act but also a socio-political one.

In the Hebrew Bible, bad smells appear as indications of the presence of disease, decay, rotting processes and death (Exodus 7:18), while pleasant aromas suggest places that were biologically clean and conducive to habitation and/or food production and harvesting. Spices and oils were chosen which assisted mankind in orienting themselves and in creating a sense of safety as well as a sense of elevation above the physical world of decay. The sense of smell was also considered highly esteemed by deity. In Deuteronomy 4:28 and Psalms 115:5–6, the sense of smell is included in connection with the polemics against idols. In the Hebrew Bible God takes pleasure in inhaling the "soothing odor" of offerings (Genesis 8:21; the phrase is also seen in other verses).

To the ancient Israelite there was no oil or fat with more symbolic meaning than olive oil. It was used as an emollient, a fuel for lighting lamps, for nutrition, and for many other purposes. It was scented olive oil that was chosen to be a holy anointing oil for the Israelites.

In Rabbinic Judaism
The Talmud asserts that the original anointing oil prepared by Moses remained miraculously intact and was used by future generations without replacement, including in the future Third Temple when it is rebuilt. This suggests that, following ancient customs, new oil was added to the old thus continuing the original oil for all time.

In Christianity
Anointing oil is used in Christian communities for various reasons. Anointing of the sick is prescribed in this passage in the New Testament: "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."

The epithet "Christ" as a title for Jesus refers to "the anointed one".

In the Armenian Church
The holy anointing oil of the Armenian Church is called the holy muron ('muron' means myrrh). The church holds a special reverence for the continuity factor of the oil. According to tradition, a portion of the holy anointing oil of Exodus 30, which Moses and Aaron had blessed, still remained in Jesus' time. Jesus Christ blessed this oil and then gave some of it to Thaddeus, who took the holy oil to Armenia and healed King Abkar of a terrible skin disease by anointing him with the holy oil. Thaddeus is said to have buried a bottle of the holy anointing oil in Daron under an evergreen tree. Gregory the Illuminator discovered the hidden treasure and mixed it with muron that he had blessed. It is said that "To this day, whenever a new batch of muron is prepared and blessed, a few drops of the old one go into it, so that the Armenian muron always contains a small amount of the original oil blessed by Moses, Jesus Christ, and Gregory the Illuminator."

The holy muron is composed of olive oil and 48 aromas and flowers. The remaining portion of the previous blessed holy oil is poured into the newly prepared oil during the blessing ceremony and passes the blessing from generation to generation. It is said that this procedure has been followed for nearly 1700 years. The Catholicos of all Armenians in Etchmiadzin combines a new mixture of holy muron in the cauldron every seven years using a portion of the holy muron from the previous blend. This is distributed to all of the Armenian churches throughout the world. Before Christianity, muron was reserved solely for the enthroning of royalty and for very special events. In later years, it was used with extreme unction and to heal the sick, and to anoint ordained clergy.

In the Assyrian Church of the East
It is said by the Assyrian Church that the holy anointing oil "was given and handed down to us by our holy fathers Mar Addai and Mar Mari and Mar Tuma." The holy anointing oil of the Assyrian Church is variously referred to as the Oil of the Holy Horn, the Oil of the Qarna, or the Oil of Unction. This holy oil is an apostolic tradition, believed to have originated from the oil consecrated by the apostles themselves, and which by succession has been handed down in the Church into the modern day. The original oil which the disciples blessed began to run low and more oil was added to it. The Assyrian Church believes that this has continued to this very day with new oil being added as the oil level lowers. This succession of holy oil is believed to be a continuity of the blessings placed upon the oil from the beginning.

Both the Oil of Unction and the Holy Leaven are referred to as "leaven", although there is no actual leavening agent present in the oil. Yohanan bar Abgareh referred to the oil in 905, as did Shlemon d-Basra in the 13th century. Yohanan bar Zo'bee in the 14th century integrated the Holy Oil of unction with baptism and other rites.

Isaaq Eshbadhnaya in the 15th century wrote the Scholion which is a commentary on specific theological topics, stating that John the Baptist gave John the Evangelist a baptismal vessel of water from Christ's baptism, which was collected by John the Baptist from water dripping from Christ after his baptism in Jordan River. Jesus gave each disciple a "loaf," at the Last Supper, but the Scholion states that to John he gave two loaves, with the instructions to eat only one and to save the other. At the crucifixion, John collected the water from Jesus's side in the vessel and the blood he collected on the loaf from the Last Supper. After the descent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost the disciples took the vessel and mixed it with oil and each took a horn of it. The loaf they ground up and added flour and salt to it. Each took a portion of the holy oil and the holy bread which were distributed in every land by the hand of those who missionized there.

The Assyrian Church has two types of holy oils; the one is ordinary olive oil, blessed or not blessed, the other is the oil of the Holy Horn which is believed to have been handed down from the apostles. The Holy Horn is constantly renewed by the addition of oil blessed by a bishop on Maundy Thursday. While almost anyone can by tradition be anointed with the regular oil, the oil of the Holy Horn is restricted for ordination and sanctification purposes.

In the Coptic Church
The holy anointing oil of the Coptic Church is referred to as the holy myron ('myron' means myrrh). The laying on of hands for the dwelling of the Holy Spirit is believed to have been a specific rite of the apostles and their successors the bishops, and as the regions of mission increased, consequently numbers of Christian believers and converts increased. It was not possible for the apostles to wander through all the countries and cities to lay hands on all of those baptized, so they established anointment by the holy myron as an alternative, it is believed, for the laying on of the hands for the Holy Spirit's indwelling.

The first who made the myron were the apostles who had kept the fragrant oils which were on the body of Jesus Christ during his burial, and they added the spices which were brought by those women who prepared them to anoint Christ, but had discovered he had been resurrected. They melted all these spices in pure olive oil, prayed on it in the upper room in Zion, and made it a holy anointing oil. They decided that their successors, the bishops, must renew the making of the myron whenever it is nearly used up, by incorporating the original oil with the new. Today the Coptic Church uses it for ordination, in the sanctification of baptismal water, and in the consecration of churches and church altars and vessels.

It is said that when Mark the Evangelist went to Alexandria, he took with him some of the holy myron oil made by the apostles and that he used it in the sacrament of Chrism, as did the patriarchs who succeeded him. This continued until the era of Athanasius the Apostolic, the 20th patriarch, who then decided to remake the myron in Alexandria. Hence, it is reported, he prepared all of the needed perfumes and spices, with pure olive oil, from which God ordered Moses to make the holy anointing oil as specified in the recipe in the thirtieth chapter of the book of Exodus. Then the sanctification of the holy myron was fulfilled in Alexandria, and Athanasius was entrusted with the holy oil, which contained spices which touched Jesus's body while it was in the tomb, as well as the original oil which had been prepared by the apostles and brought to Egypt by Mark. He distributed the oil to the churches abroad: to the See of Rome, Antioch and Constantinople, together with a document of its authenticity, and all of the patriarchs are said to have rejoiced in receiving it.

The Coptic Church informs that the fathers of the Church and scholars like Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, Ambrose, and Cyril of Jerusalem, spoke about the holy myron and how they received its use in anointing by tradition. For example, Hippolytus, in his Apostolic Tradition, speaks of the holy oil "according to ancient custom" Origen writes about the holy oil "according to the tradition of the church" Cyril of Jerusalem goes into further detail in speaking about the grace of the Holy Spirit in the holy myron: "this oil is not just any oil: after the epiclesis of the Spirit, it becomes charism of Christ and power of the Holy Spirit through the presence of the deity".

The early fathers and scholars mention the use of the holy myron, as well as a documentation by Abu'l-Barakat Ibn Kabar, a 14th-century Coptic priest and scholar, in his book Misbah az-Zulmah fi idah al-khidmah (The Lamp of Darkness in Clarifying the Service). According to his account, the holy apostles took from the spices that were used to anoint the body of Jesus Christ when he was buried, added pure olive oil to it, and prayed over it in Upper Zion, the first church where the Holy Spirit fell in the upper room.

This holy oil was then distributed among all of the apostles so that wherever they preached, new converts would be anointed with it as a seal. They also commanded that whenever a new batch of Holy Myron was made, they add to it the old holy myron to keep the first holy myron continually with all that would ever be made afterwards.

According to the available resources, the holy myron in the Church of Egypt has been made 34 times.

Among the Saint Thomas Christians and Nasranis
According to tradition, Thomas the Apostle laid the original foundation for Christianity in India. It is reported that Jewish communities already present in India enticed Thomas to make his missionary journey there. It is said that he brought holy anointing oil with him and that the St. Thomas Christians still have this oil to this day.

Patriarch Ya'qub, of the Syrian Malabar Nasrani Church, is remembered for his celebration of the liturgy and his humble encouragement to accept the simple way of life. After he consecrated sacred myron in the Mor Gabriel monastery in 1964, holy myron flowed from the glass container the following day and many people were said to have been healed by it.

In Mandaeism
In Mandaeism, anointing sesame oil, called (ࡌࡉࡔࡀ) in Mandaic, is used during rituals such as the  (baptism) and  (death mass), both of which are performed by Mandaean priests.

Abramelin oil
Abramelin oil, also called oil of Abramelin, is an anointing oil used in Western esotericism, especially in ceremonial magic. It is blended from aromatic plant materials. Its name came about due to its having been described in a medieval grimoire called The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage (1897) written by Abraham the Jew (presumed to have lived from c. 1362 – c. 1458). The recipe is adapted from that of the biblical holy anointing oil described in the Book of Exodus (30:22-25) and attributed to Moses. In the English translation The Book of Abramelin: A New Translation (2006) by Steven Guth of Georg Dehn, which was compiled from all the known German manuscript sources,   the formula reads as follows:

"Take one part of the best myrrh, half a part of cinnamon, one part of cassia, one part galanga root, and a quarter of the combined total weight of good, fresh olive oil. Make these into an ointment or oil as is done by the chemists. Keep it in a clean container until you need it. Put the container together with the other accessories in the cupboard under the altar."

In the first printed edition, Peter Hammer, 1725, the recipe reads:

"Nimm Myrrhen des besten 1 Theil, Zimmt 1/2 Theil, soviel des Calmus als Zimmet, Cassien soviel als der Myrrhen im Gewicht und gutes frisches Baumöl..." (Take 1 part of the best myrrh, 1/2 part cinnamon, as much calamus as cinnamon, of cassia as much as the myrrh in weight and good fresh tree oil...)"

Note that the proportions in this edition conform with the recipe for holy anointing oil from the Bible (Exodus 30:22-25).

The original popularity of Abramelin oil rested on the importance magicians place upon Jewish traditions of holy oils and, more recently, upon S. L. MacGregor Mathers' translation of The Book of Abramelin and the resurgence of 20th-century occultism, such as found in the works of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and Aleister Crowley, the founder of Thelema, who used a similar version of the oil in his system of Magick, and has since spread into other modern occult traditions. There are multiple recipes in use today.

This oil is currently used in several ceremonies of the Thelemic church, Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, including the rites of confirmation and ordination. It is also commonly used to consecrate magical implements and temple furniture. The eucharistic host of the Gnostic Mass—called the Cake of Light—includes this oil as an important ingredient.

Samuel Mathers' recipe
According to the S. L. MacGregor Mathers English translation from 1897, which derives from an incomplete French manuscript copy of The Book of Abramelin, the recipe is:

"You shall prepare the sacred oil in this manner: Take of myrrh in tears, one part; of fine cinnamon, two parts; of galangal half a part; and the half of the total weight of these drugs of the best oil olive. The which aromatics you shall mix together according unto the art of the apothecary, and shall make thereof a balsam, the which you shall keep in a glass vial which you shall put within the cupboard (formed by the interior) of the altar."

Crowley's recipe using essential oils
Early in the 20th century, the Aleister Crowley created his own version of Abramelin oil, which is called "oil of Abramelin" in The Book of the Law. It was based on S. L. MacGregor Mathers' substitution of galangal for calamus. Crowley also abandoned the book's method of preparation—which specifies blending myrrh "tears" (resin) and "fine" (finely ground) cinnamon—instead opting for using distilled essential oils in a base of olive oil. His recipe (from his commentary to The Book of the Law) reads as follows:

 * 8 parts cinnamon essential oil
 * 4 parts myrrh essential oil
 * 2 parts galangal essential oil
 * 7 parts olive oil

Crowley weighed out his proportions of essential oils according to the recipe specified by Mathers' translation for weighing out raw materials. The result is to give the cinnamon a strong presence, so that when it is placed upon the skin "it should burn and thrill through the body with an intensity as of fire". This formula is unlike the grimoire recipe and it cannot be used for practices that require the oil to be poured over the head. Rather, Crowley intended it to be applied in small amounts, usually to the top of the head or the forehead, and to be used for anointing of magical equipment as an act of consecration.

Symbolism
Oil of Abramelin was seen as highly important by Crowley, and he used his version of it throughout his life. In Crowley's magical system, the oil came to symbolize the aspiration to what he called the Great Work—"The oil consecrates everything that is touched with it; it is his aspiration; all acts performed in accordance with that are holy". Crowley went on to say:

"The Holy Oil is the Aspiration of the Magician; it is that which consecrates him to the performance of the Great Work; and such is its efficacy that it also consecrates all the furniture of the Temple and the instruments thereof. It is also the grace or chrism; for this aspiration is not ambition; it is a quality bestowed from above. For this reason the Magician will anoint first the top of his head before proceeding to consecrate the lower centres in their turn (...) It is the pure light translated into terms of desire. It is not the Will of the Magician, the desire of the lower to reach the higher; but it is that spark of the higher in the Magician which wishes to unite the lower with itself."

Crowley also had a symbolic view of the ingredients:

"This oil is compounded of four substances. The basis of all is the oil of the olive. The olive is, traditionally, the gift of Minerva, the Wisdom of God, the Logos. In this are dissolved three other oils; oil of myrrh, oil of cinnamon, oil of galangal. The Myrrh is attributed to Binah, the Great Mother, who is both the understanding of the Magician and that sorrow and compassion which results from the contemplation of the Universe. The Cinnamon represents Tiphereth, the Sun -- the Son, in whom Glory and Suffering are identical. The Galangal represents both Kether and Malkuth, the First and the Last, the One and the Many, since in this Oil they are One. [...] These oils taken together represent therefore the whole Tree of Life. The ten Sephiroth are blended into the perfect gold."

Effects
Mathers' use of the ingredient galangal instead of calamus and/or Crowley's innovative use of essential oils rather than raw ingredients has resulted in some changes from the original recipe:

 * Symbolism: In Jewish, Greek, and European magical botanic symbolism, the ascription given to sweet flag or calamus is generally that of fertility, due to the shape of the plant's fruiting body. Crowley gave the following Qabalistic meaning for galangal: "Galangal represents both Kether and Malkuth, the First and the Last, the One and the Many." Thus Crowley's substitution therefore shifts the symbolism to microcosm/macrocosm unity, which is reflective of Thelema's mystical aim—the union of the adept with the Absolute.
 * Skin sensation: The original recipe for Abramelin oil does not irritate the skin and can be applied according to traditional Jewish and Christian religious and magical practices. Crowley's recipe has a much higher concentration of cinnamon than the original recipe. This results in an oil which can be noticeably hot on the skin and can cause skin rashes if applied too liberally.
 * Digestive toxicity: Galangal is edible, calamus is not, as it has some toxicity. This is certainly relevant to those who use Crowley's oil of Abramelin as a core ingredient for the eucharistic Cake of Light, giving it a mild opiated taste (from the myrrh) and a spicy tang (from the cinnamon and the ginger-like galangal). Heavy use of calamus in such a recipe would render the host inedible.

title: Holy anointing oil


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marcy Rhoades D'Arcy

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Marcy Rhoades D'Arcy
Substub that just repeats information in the Married... with Children article. I love the show, but if Al Bundy is just a redirect to the original article, this page should be too. ral 315  07:19, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect (you needn't have VfDed it for that). --W(t) 07:26, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
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 * Redirect. --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 17:25, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
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 * Redirect to Married... with Children. There's more and better info there already. Double Blue  (Talk) 04:27, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
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Blake Gottesman

Blake Lanier Gottesman (born March 6, 1980) served as White House Deputy Chief of Staff to former U.S. President George W. Bush, becoming, at age 28, the youngest member of the Bush senior staff. He previously served in the Bush administration as personal aide and body man for the president from 2001 until 2006. His work for Bush began during Bush's presidential campaign in 1999.

Early life
Gottesman was born in Travis County, Texas, the son of Lisa Babette (née Temerlin) and Sanford Lee Gottesman. His father is president of The Gottesman Company, a real estate development company based in Austin, Texas, and board member of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation. His maternal grandfather, Julius Liener Temerlin, was a prominent advertiser who founded the Dallas International Film Festival. He was raised Jewish.

Gottesman was educated at St. Andrews Episcopal School and Stephen F. Austin High School, both in Austin, Texas; during this time he dated Jenna Bush when her father was Governor of Texas. Gottesman attended Claremont McKenna College for one year and dropped out.

Career
Gottesman worked as a junior aide to then-White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card at the beginning of Bush's first presidential term and became Bush's full-time personal aide in February 2002. Gottesman was responsible for managing Bush's day-to-day activities and traveled with him to functions and on overseas trips. In a 2006 Time article on Gottesman, he was said to understand Bush's moods and tendencies better than most of his other advisors, leading many to have discussions with him on issues before presenting them to the President. When compared to fictional presidential aide Charlie Young in television series The West Wing, Gottesman stated, "Our jobs are probably pretty similar."

In his role as a personal aide, Gottesman performed a wide range of duties, from dog-sitting the president's Scottish terriers, Barney and Miss Beazley, to carrying the president's speeches and giving him the two-minute warning before a speech begins. After his stint as an aide he enrolled in Harvard Business School, graduating in 2008. His admission to the school despite not having received an undergraduate degree was criticized by many media commentators.

After the inauguration of President Barack Obama, Gottesman joined Berkshire Partners, a Boston-based private equity firm, as a Senior Associate. Since then, Gottesman has been elevated to Managing Director at Berkshire.

title: Blake Gottesman


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jefferson D'Arcy

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Redirect to Married... with Children. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jefferson D'Arcy
Substub that just repeats information in the Married... with Children article. I love the show, but if Al Bundy is just a redirect to the original article, this page should be too. ral 315  07:20, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect (you needn't have VfDed it for that). --W(t) 07:25, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
 * This article was redirected, and The Inedible Bulk reverted. These fictional characters don't stand on their own. Redirect again. Uncle G 15:24, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
 * Redirect. --TenOfAllTrades (talk/contrib) 17:25, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect. -- BD2412  talk  21:52, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
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Richardoestesia

Richardoestesia is a morphogenus of theropod dinosaur teeth, originally described from the Late Cretaceous of what is now Canada, the United States and Kazakhstan. It currently contains two species, R. gilmorei and R. isosceles, and a possible third, R. asiatica. It has been used as a morphotaxon to describe other theropod teeth widely displaced in time and space from the type species. If all teeth assigned to the genus are truly reflective of the animals biology and taxonomic state, it would have been one of the longest lasting dinosaur genera, perhaps also being the most widely distributed.

History
The jaws were found in 1917 by Charles Hazelius Sternberg and sons in the Dinosaur Provincial Park in Alberta at the Little Sandhill Creek site. In 1924 Charles Whitney Gilmore named Chirostenotes pergracilis and referred the jaws to this species. In the 1980s it became clear that Chirostenotes was an oviraptorosaur to which the long jaws could not have belonged. Therefore, in 1990 Phillip Currie, John Keith Rigby and Robert Evan Sloan named a separate species: Richardoestesia gilmorei.

The genus is named for Richard Estes, to honor his important work on small vertebrates and especially theropod teeth of the Late Cretaceous. The naming authors actually intended to use the spelling Ricardoestesia, Ricardus being the normal latinisation of "Richard". However, except in one overlooked figure caption, the editors of the paper altered the spelling to include the 'h'. Ironically, in 1991 George Olshevsky in a species list also used the spelling Richardoestesia, and indicated Ricardoestesia to be the misspelling, unaware that the original authors actually intended the name to be spelled this way. As a result, under ICZN rules, he acted as "first revisor" choosing between the two spelling variants of the original publication and inadvertently made the misspelt name official. Subsequently, the original authors have adopted the spelling Richardoestesia. The specific name honors Gilmore.

Species
The holotype specimen of Richardoestesia gilmorei (NMC 343) consists of a pair of lower jaws found in the upper Judith River Group, dating from the Campanian age, about 75 million years ago. The jaws are slender and rather long, 193 millimeters, but the teeth are small and very finely serrated with five to six denticles per millimeter. The serration density is a distinctive trait of the species.

In 2001, Julia Sankey named a second species: Richardoestesia isosceles, based on a tooth, LSUMGS 489:6238, from the Texan Aguja Formation, which is of a longer and less recurved type. The teeth of R. isosceles have also been identified as crocodyliform in shape, possibly belonging to a sebecosuchian.

In 2013 a study assumed that the teeth of the coelurosaur Asiamericana asiatica, from the CBI-14 site of the Bissekty Formation in Kazakhstan, were identical to those of Richardoestesia isosceles, and renamed the species into Richardoestesia asiatica. A subsequent study confirmed this in 2019. The holotype of R. asiatica is CCMGE 460/12457, and two other teeth (ZIN PH 1110/ 16 and ZIN PH 1129/16) are also known.

Classification
Richardoestesia-like teeth have been found in many Late Cretaceous geological formations, including the Horseshoe Canyon Formation, the Scollard Formation, Hell Creek Formation, Ferris Formation, and the Lance Formation (dated to about 66 million years ago). Similar teeth have been referred to this genus from as early as the Barremian age (Cedar Mountain Formation, 125 million years ago).

Because of the disparity in location and time of the many referred teeth, researchers have cast doubt on the idea that they all belong to the same genus or species, and the genus is best considered a form taxon. A comparative study of the teeth published in 2013 demonstrated that both R. gilmorei and R. isosceles were only definitively present in the Dinosaur Park Formation, dated to between 76.5 and 75 million years ago. R. isosceles was also present in the Aguja Formation, roughly the same age. All other referred teeth most likely belong to different species, which have not been named due to the lack of body fossils for comparison.

Fossils of Richardoestesia have also been found in the Tremp Formation of northeastern Spain (Blasi 2 member).

Paleobiology
At least a few studies have speculated a piscivorous lifestyle for Richardoestesia, due to its vast distribution as well as predominance in marine sites.

title: Richardoestesia