text:
Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 June 2

Category:xxxx xFC Pro Bowl players

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

(Includes Category:1986 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1988 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1989 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1992 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1993 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1994 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1995 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1996 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1997 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1998 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1999 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2000 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2001 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2002 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2003 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2004 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2005 NFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1986 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1988 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1989 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1992 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1993 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1994 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1995 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1996 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1997 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1998 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:1999 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2000 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2001 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2002 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2003 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2004 AFC Pro Bowl players, Category:2005 AFC Pro Bowl players)

I can understand having a category for every team and even a category for Category:NFC Pro Bowl players and Category:AFC Pro Bowl players but a category for every year is better served by a list for each year. Brett Favre, for instance, now has 15 categories. Overloads servers, slows down Wikipedia, etc.--BaronLarf 18:15, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Roger Clemens has 18 categories... so what? --FutureNJGov 15:15, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Ouch. Exactly what BaronLarf said.  Delete and convert to list.  --Azkar 18:37, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't know whether it should be converted to a list or not. Categories for players of every pro bowl in existence are encyclopedic, categories for players of every pro bowl in existence in every year in existence are not.   — J I P | Talk 18:40, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and don't convert to a list- I agree with JIP. --G Rutter 19:10, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'm the person who's created all these categories, and the only reason I did so was to mirror baseball, which has individual categories for every year and is broken down by American and National League teams.  If you suggest deleting these categories, then delete baseball's as well.  I only started these categories to give football the same quality of categorization as baseball.  I may be a little biased since I'm the one doing all the work on these categories, but I still think it's worthy enough to keep.  All for all or none for all, but no picking & choosing.  --FutureNJGov 15:11, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I just took a look at the baseball categories. I think I'll nominate them later, when I have a bit of time.  --Azkar 19:57, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, Azkar. I just noticed the football ones since they were just recently created.  --BaronLarf 00:25, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Why? Keep them there, keep them all there, and help me add to the Pro Bowl categories.  They're there for a reason, to categorize.  It's such a strawman argument to say that it'll take up bandwidth and overload servers, no more so than some of the other categories in existence which are far more obscure and far less-goal oriented than these sports ones.  When I was done with the Pro Bowl ones I was going to do the same for hockey (though I was hoping someone else would do basketball, since it's not a sport I care about).  If you want to delete a stupid category like "Children of famous people" which is somewhere down this page, that's fine.  But I don't think it's necessary to delete a well-meaning, organized, and (once it's completed) closed category like who played in a Pro Bowl in a specific year.  It's not like each category is going to grow exponentially every year; each category is fairly small and close-ended once the players are added.  Quite honestly, I don't see why it's the job of the admins to come down on me like this for trying to add to the Wikipedia system, and I'm fairly certain I won't be contributing anymore if my proposed system ends up being deleted.  I don't mean to sound like a whining child, but it's quite silly to suggest deleting something useful and then offering asinine arguments to back up said suggestion.  At least I'm being constructive, and the fact that I'm doing all this by myself on my own time means that I care enough about the system to do it.  I wouldn't spend hours looking up individual teams for the hell of it if I didn't think it would contribute to the website as a whole.  I know this was long, so I'll wrap it up, but I hope I've at least convinced you to see my POV and reasoning behind this.  And I hope I've convinced other people to vote with me in keeping this, and offering to assist in a painstaking but worthwhile process.  --FutureNJGov 16:18, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow, I feel sorry for whoever has to undo all that if the consensus is to delete. --Kbdank71 19:26, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Convert to lists and delete. Even just Category:NFC Pro Bowl players and Category:AFC Pro Bowl players would be overkill in terms of categories.  However, AFC & NFC MVP categories would be a good idea.  -Sean Curtin 22:29, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, agree with nominator. K1Bond007 02:33, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Convert to lists and delete. Neutralitytalk 03:13, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Listify and deletify. Radiant_* 09:19, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The content should be in lists, not in categories. -Hapsiainen 15:28, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Better with a list. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:English coast and countryside by county

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:19, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Although I disagree with it, I am not seeking to reverse the decision recorded in the CfD debate. But we do need clarification - see Category talk:English coast and countryside by county. If the decision was to merge into one "coast and countryside" category for England, then the category title is unsatisfactory. -- RHaworth 16:51, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * Can we move this to the CfD talk page as it's not technically a nomination? --Kbdank71 19:22, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't accept that due process has been observed here. Only one person supported the nominator and another objector has since emerged. I plan to start work on reversing this decision. CalJW 03:12, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, if I'm not mistaken, User:RHaworth was referring not to the merge, but to the location of the merge, which was fixed (if that's who you were referring to as the "other objector"). So there was in total, wait, let me do the math here, one objector, you.  And three supporters, Joe, Radiant, and myself.  Not only that, but Radiant even said in the discussion to open an RFC about this.  So why not slow down and do that. Kbdank71 14:07, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)  --
 * I'm pretty sure you are mistaken. The level of support for the suggestion was a pitiable justification for such a major decision, and I think you should have shown more caution, especially as you know so little about this subject area that you misunderstood the proposal. I do not believe cfd notifications were put in place in all subcategories as they should have been. You have wiped hours and hours of people valuable work on the whim of a couple of people. CalJW 22:46, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I think a content-RFC on this would be appropriate, to determine what the community feels is the best way of categorizing this. Please do not reverse the decision immediately, that would only cause an edit war. Instead, open the WP:RFC and call for a discussion. Radiant_* 09:37, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Fictional Harries

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:19, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I am the author of this category. I am writing this entry here because it was listed as CfD by someone else, but they forgot to write the entry here. I vote keep, because it doesn't do any harm. — J I P | Talk 15:55, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. There's no correlation between these fictional characters, except that they happen to share a common first name.  --Azkar 16:34, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unless anyone, excluding the author, can say that they have found it useful or would find it useful, I consider it a waste of space & detracts from the useful categories on the topics' pages. --Drak2 17:02, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Useless. List them on the Harry disambiguation page. Neutralitytalk 03:14, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Bible stories

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:19, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This was recreated (probably by mistake)- consensus has already been reached that it should be deleted. --G Rutter 13:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) (Archive of the first discussion Categories for deletion/Bible stories) --G Rutter 14:15, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete again. --Kbdank71 14:37, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as recreation of previously deleted material. Radiant_* 15:01, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Shouldnt this be moved to "Categories for undeletion" or something, then?     12:15, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Categories_for_deletion/Names
This is an attempt to create a guideline for categories of people by first or last name. Please contribute there for a centralized discussion. Radiant_* 12:08, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Category:Proposed templates

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:49, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This is based on the fallacy that, in WikiPedia, you need to discuss the appropriateness of templates before using them. Instruction creep. Radiant_* 11:02, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Isn't this covered by a cleanup template already? Thryduulf 13:31, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Partially so, and also by the template's talk page, TFD and RFC. Radiant_* 09:22, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:English films

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:38, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not a good idea. A category that can be added to practically every film article isn't useful. — Xezbeth 06:50, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Agree Delete Hiding 10:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Propose rename to British films for culturally important films created in the United Kingdom. Radiant_* 10:34, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Has existed for a while already: Category:British films. — Xezbeth 13:13, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, agree K1Bond007 03:40, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Too broad category. -Hapsiainen 15:28, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Spacer planets

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Empty category, no longer needed. →Iñgōlemo← talk  02:08, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * Aren't these planets in Category:Foundation universe planets? Were they moved to the parent category or something? 132.205.44.134 16:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Arcturus Sector planets

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Empty category no longer needed. →Iñgōlemo← talk  02:10, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * Aren't these planets in Category:Foundation universe planets? Were they moved to the parent category or something? 132.205.44.134 16:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Trader planets

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Another empty category. →Iñgōlemo← talk  02:12, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * Aren't these planets in Category:Foundation universe planets? Were they moved to the parent category or something? 132.205.44.134 16:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Trantor Sector planets

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Another unneeded empty category. →Iñgōlemo← talk  02:14, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * That'd be the foundation series, wouldn't it? Merge the lot of them (including the non-empty ones) into Category:Foundation universe planets. Radiant_* 10:34, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Aren't these planets in Category:Foundation universe planets? Were they moved to the parent category or something? 132.205.44.134 16:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 June 2

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Talk:David Ford (civil servant)

Rumors
How would you know if a man is really come from MI6... I think someone tried to post wrong information here... Tony Sapphire

 * The rumour is persistent among the pro-Beijing factions in Hong Kong. Anyway, a lot of these poeple have really fancy speculations in addition, such as secret plans" to move all of Hong Kong's foreign exchange reserves to Britain before 1997 etc. --JNZ 07:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:David Ford (civil servant)


text:
Talk:Laura San Giacomo

I believe she may have other "attributes"
Now, do you have anything to add regarding her movies, acting skills, or anything else?

Atlant 23:12, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Personally I was wondering if anyone could add more about her breasts. Six paragraphs doesn't seem to capture every last detail conceivable about two fleshy orbs.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.73.52.194 (talk • contribs).

Breast size
(I can't believe I'm doing this) Do we have any citations claiming (even as a rumour) that her bra size is 34D? They look substantially larger to me, though Ms. San Giacomo may be quite short in real life and so they may appear larger than they actually are. --Yamla June 30, 2005 20:51 (UTC)

 * I think this article has gone a little far on the subject of her breasts. MK2 1 July 2005 01:13 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Fire Star 1 July 2005 01:13 (UTC)

 * Now, does anyone have a more-attractive picture of her? For example, one that wasn't shot with a wide-angle lens a few inches from her chest? (I mean, look at the size of her head in proportion to her body!)

 * Atlant 1 July 2005 11:15 (UTC)

 * Those are at least double if not triple D. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.221.221.188 (talk • contribs).

For those who missed it, there was a complete section of this article - eight paragraphs long - discussing Laura San Giacomo's breasts. If it hadn't been deleted, I was going to suggest it be split off and turned into a seperate article. Maybe we could start a whole category of celebrity bodyparts articles: Laura San Giacomo's breasts, Paul Newman's eyes, Betty Grable's legs, Jimmy Durante's nose, Jennifer Lopez' ass. MK2 16:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

 * One might get the impression that a lot of Wiki editors are 12-14 year old boys; breast size seems to make a big impression on them.

 * Atlant 17:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

i cant believe im doing this now....

even though her breast size was a somewhat running gag on the show, i dont think it should be incorporated on her personal page. all the "information" is specualtive, and has no place in an area designated to talk about her body of work. if it stayed on the page, why not put it under the notes as a single sentence? i suggest moving the larger part of the article to the just shoot me page. maybe in the notes section, which could eventually be turned into a "running gag" list--Macready 06:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * They never looked that big to me. I've seen just about every episode, and her breasts wer nowhere near a D cup. They looked like a B cup, MAYBE large B cup tops. TJ Spyke 06:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh what a picture
That is a completely unflattering picture of Ms. Giacomo. Certainly, someone has something better to post. How about a picture of her as Nadine in The Stand? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GestaltG (talk • contribs).

 * I dunno... It seems pretty flattering to me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.208.241.192 (talk • contribs).

The fact that 8 paragraphs of breast talk were deleted is a sure sign that Wikipedia is broken. Put it back.

-- Dylan 69.11.48.26

Hey, I will replace her picture with a new one. Hope nobody minds.

P.S. This article is full of personal comments (e.g. "if nothing else, the actress"...). It is more like a TV magazine article than a Wikipedia article. Unsuitable in terms of style, it should undergo a cleanup (good command of language, though!) Xanthi22 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Ok, now I'm thinking it, I'm not removing the already existing picture (which is awful). I will just add a new one (the movie poster from Nina Takes a Lover). I've found better pictures of her but they are either copyrighted or I don't know the source(many viscaps, too). If somebody objects to the new picture, please let me know.

Xanthi22 01:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * That image was copyrighted, too, and was being used to depict San Giacomo, not the movie, so it was a copyright violation. Sorry, I had to remove it.  --Yamla 03:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I tried to replace that horrible image of her by uploading a new photo and citing the proper rights for noncommercial use and it was deleted for some reason. I cannot easily find out why?  Was wikipedia people in the wrong for the edit this time?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.156.89 (talk) 02:48, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't like the photo that is up now (5/12/2015) -- she seems to be squinting like the light is in her eyes (which I probably was). IT HAS TO GO!--24.177.0.156 (talk) 16:56, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

New pictures
I've posted two new images. In case they are also deemed unsuitable, please let me know.

Xanthi22 21:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeap, sorry, neither were suitable. Both were from movies and were being used to depict the actress rather than the movie or character played.  --Yamla 22:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I strongly disagree and I've reverted the pictures back in. At least these photos look like her, rather than looking like a study of her breasts (like that awful picture we've had for months now).

 * Atlant 20:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

 * It's not a matter of whether or not the pictures are better. It is a violation of copyright to use these images.  --Yamla 21:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Okay, thanks for clarifying that!

 * Atlant 21:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok, Yamla is right. However, how come that the articles on Tom Cruise, Demi Moore, Sigourney Weaver, Katie Holmes, Jack Nicholson and possibly hundreds of other actors also feature screenshots from their movies? Why weren't those photos (many of which go way back, to 2005) been deleted, given that they are also copyrighted images and are used to depict the actors rather than the movie or the character played?

 * Xanthi22 22:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

what about snapped
why don't they mention the fact that she was the narrator on the show snapped? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thecerda (talk • contribs) 15:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Birthdate
Worldcat, which I'd take as more reliable than those syndicated "Who was born today" pieces, reports a 1962 birthdate. For every one of the syndicated pieces giving one date, it's easy enough to find one giving the other, eg. I've noted the discrepancy in the ref/footnote. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Talhotblond
Can someone add the TV movie Talhotblond and correct the order. Thanks 141.217.233.69 (talk) 19:47, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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The Filmography Section has been deleted
You have made several edits on this page on the Television and Filmography sections. You have deleted the entire Filmography Section. You have deleted and replaced the entire Television section.

What are you doing? These edits and other edits you have done appear to be test edits. If you are learning how to edit Wikipedia articles, please do test edits in your sandbox.

Continuing to edit in this manner would be vandalism.

Please stop doing these types of edits.

Osomite hablemos  21:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Laura San Giacomo


text:
2005–06 Rangers F.C. season

The 2005–06 season was the 126th season of competitive football by Rangers.

Overview
Rangers played a total of 52 competitive matches during the 2005–06 season. Their start to the season was poor, winning only six league games out of the first 17. The period from October through to early December saw the team embark on one of the worst runs in their history, going ten games without a win. The league form scarcely improved as they failed to catch Hearts and so finished third in the league.

The domestic cup competitions were not productive as the club went out of the League Cup at the quarter final stage to Celtic, losing 2–0 at Celtic Park. They lost 3–0 also at Ibrox to Hibernian on 4 February 2006 to go out of the Scottish Cup in the fourth round and end their last hope of silverware for the season.

Rangers did however qualify for the Champions League group stages, and a 1–1 draw with Internazionale saw Rangers progress to the last 16 for the first time in the club's history, and the first Scottish team to do so. They were then eliminated by Spanish side Villarreal on the away goals rule.

This season turned out to be the last for manager Alex McLeish, with his imminent departure at the end of the season being announced in February following the Scottish Cup exit and a 2–0 defeat away to Aberdeen in the league.

In
Total spending: £1.4m

Out
Total received: £0.75m

Goal scorers
Last updated: 7 May 2006

Source: Match reports

Only competitive matches

title: 2005–06 Rangers F.C. season


text: User talk:24.15.53.210

title: User talk:24.15.53.210


text:
Henry Courtenay Fenn

Henry Courtenay Fenn, more commonly known as H. C. Fenn, (February 26, 1894 – July 1978) was an American sinologist and architect of Yale University's Chinese language program.

H. C. Fenn was the son of the Reverend Dr. Courtenay Hughes Fenn, missionary to China and compiler of The Five Thousand Dictionary, and his wife Alice Holstein May Fenn, and grew up in Peking. He married Constance Latimer Sargent on January 27, 1925. Fenn was active in the "Yale system" of Chinese grammar developed by himself, George Kennedy, Gardner Tewksbury, Wang Fangyu and others working in the Institute of Far Eastern Languages at Yale in the late 1940s.

Selected works

 * Songs from Hypnia, Henry C. Fenn, 1915
 * A Syllabus of the History of Chinese Civilization and Culture, by L. C. Goodrich and H. C. Fenn, 1929, 1941
 * Beginning Chinese, by John De Francis, edited by Henry C. Fenn and George A. Kennedy, 1946
 * Chinese characters easily confused, Henry C. Fenn, 1953
 * Chinese dialogues, edited by Henry C. Fenn & Pao-che`n Lee, 1953
 * Speak Mandarin, by Henry C. Fenn and Gardner M. Tewksbury, Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn., 1967
 * "Introduction to Chinese Sentence Structure," by Henry C. Fenn, date unknown.

title: Henry Courtenay Fenn


text:
Lake Michigan Conference (college conference)

The Lake Michigan Conference (LMC) was a college athletic conference affiliated with the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) at the Division III level. Member institutions were all located in Wisconsin except Dominican University in Illinois. LMC schools joined with some schools from the Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference (NIIC) in the 2006–07 school year, creating the Northern Athletics Conference (NAC, now known as the Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference, or NACC).

History
The conference was formed as the Wisconsin Conference of Independent Colleges (WCIC) in 1969 with seven charter members; it changed its name in 1983.

Charter members

 * Blackhawk Technical College
 * Cardinal Stritch University
 * Gateway Technical College at (Kenosha)
 * Gateway Technical College at (Racine)
 * Maranatha Baptist Bible College
 * Marian University
 * Northwestern College
 * St. Francis de Sales College

Final members

 * Notes:

Former members

 * Notes:

Sports
The LMC sponsored intercollegiate athletic competition in men's baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's cross country, men's and women's golf, men's and women's soccer, women's softball, men's and women's tennis, women's volleyball, and men's wrestling.


text: User talk:62.178.232.219

title: User talk:62.178.232.219


text:
Midway Arcade Treasures 3

Midway Arcade Treasures 3 is the third and final compilation of classic arcade games published by Midway for the GameCube, PlayStation 2, and Xbox. This compilation includes 8 racing games that were not in the 2003 and 2004 releases Midway Arcade Treasures and Midway Arcade Treasures 2. Like the first and second installments, however, the Xbox version is not compatible with the Xbox 360. Unlike the other installments in the Midway Arcade Treasures series, it is rated E for Everyone by the ESRB. It also differs from the other installments by focusing on one specific genre (3D racing games), while the first two featured games from a wide variety of genres.

Games
The games included in Midway Arcade Treasures 3 are:

 * Badlands (1989)
 * Offroad Thunder (1999)
 * Race Drivin' (1990)
 * San Francisco Rush the Rock: Alcatraz Edition (1997)
 * S.T.U.N. Runner (1989)
 * Super Off Road (including its upgrade/add-on pack, Super Off Road Track Pack) [1989]
 * Hydro Thunder (1999)
 * San Francisco Rush 2049 (1999)

While most of the games in this collection are emulations or recreations of the arcade versions, Hydro Thunder and Rush 2049 are based on the console versions, specifically ports of the Dreamcast releases. Additionally, San Francisco Rush: The Rock was re-programmed from the ground up; while the tracks and vehicles are the same as the arcade version, the physics engine is slightly different, and the audio has been replaced, save for the "What's Your Name?" high score music, but this version runs at 60 frames per second, which is faster than the arcade.

Super Off Road and its Track Pack is the only game on this collection, and in the entire trilogy, that was not developed by Midway, Williams Electronics, or Atari Games. It was developed and published by the Leland Corporation, the predecessor of Midway Studios San Diego, which was acquired as part of the purchase of Tradewest in 1994. For legal reasons, the image of "Ironman" Ivan Stewart has been altered in the two Super Off Road games; he now has sunglasses and a mustache and both games are now known as simply Super Off Road (the original arcade versions were known fully as Ironman Ivan Stewart's Super Off Road). "Ironman's" Speed Shop was renamed Off-Road Speed Shop, and Ivan himself (the gray, AI-controlled racer) was renamed "Lightning" Kevin Lydy. Ivan's name does, however, remain intact on the high score list ("IVN") and game credits.

Reception
Midway Arcade Treasures 3 received mixed reviews with 66.05% for the PlayStation 2 version, 67.29% for the Xbox version, and 65.61% for the GameCube version from video game aggregator GameRankings.

title: Midway Arcade Treasures 3


text:
Wikipedia:Peer review/Sergei Korolev/archive1

Sergei Korolev
A man who went from nearly dying in a Stalinist Gulag to head of the Soviet space program: his groups launched the first satellites and humans into space, landed Luna probes on the Moon, designed the first Russian ICBMs, &c. I've tried to update the page to do his story justice. Unfortunately at the moment there is only one really good source for this: the book by James Harford referenced near the bottom. All the web sites seem to give varying tales of his life. Anyway, any suggestions for improvements and some final polish? Thanks. — RJH 23:16, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The lead could definately be expanded to summarise the content of the artilce. I didn't notice any major flaws otherwise, the language is overly flowery in places, for example The struggles continued until the triumph of the Soviets in 1920 , triumph is a bit flowery and to those who aren't intimately familiar with Russian history who the Soviets triumphed over isn't really clear either. You may want to write the honours section into prose. A lastly are there any pictures that could be used in the middle of the article? There are some more in the Russian version but they seem to be from later in his life too.--nixie 05:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The pictures of his earlier life appear to be from copyrighted sources, but I found one one the NASA site of SP in a glider. — RJH 17:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you going to use a footnote system for inline citations?--nixie 03:30, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope. At the moment there is really only one fairly solid English-language reference for this write-up. The remainder are in Russian. Sorry. — RJH 15:24, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem, just mention that in the FAC request, it'll save you from having to explain it there. --nixie 13:06, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I'm not really into that whole FAC scene. I was just trying to turn it into a quality article, since he is an important figure. :-) I'll update the page as I find new references. (I did find another, actually, although it had less material.) — RJH 17:57, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Regarding sources: I poked around a bit and found library catalog entries for two English translations of Russian biographies of Korolev:
 * Romanov, A. 1976. Spacecraft designer : the story of Sergei Korolev.
 * Golovanov, Yaroslav. 1975. Sergei Korolev : the apprenticeship of a space pioneer.
 * The U. of California catalog has both; the U. of Washington has #1; I'm sure other large research libraries will have them too... Great article, by the way.  CDC   (talk)  21:23, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)


text:
Battle of Río Salado

The Battle of Río Salado also known as the Battle of Tarifa (30 October 1340) was a battle of the armies of King Afonso IV of Portugal and King Alfonso XI of Castile against those of Sultan Abu al-Hasan 'Ali of the Marinid dynasty and Yusuf I of Granada.

Campaign
After Alfonso XI of Castile's victory in the Teba campaign of 1330, Muhammed IV, Sultan of Granada sent to Abu al-Hasan 'Ali for help in maintaining his survival. The policies of the Kingdom of Fez vis-à-avis the Iberian Peninsula had changed upon the ascension to power of Hasan in 1331. During his rule the Marinids achieved their largest territorial expansion in Africa. Hasan sent a naval fleet and 5,000 troops that landed at Algeciras in early 1333. These set about helping the Granadan King to capture the Castilian outpost of Gibraltar, which he did after less than two months. They then conducted a limited campaign to reunite these territories to the realm of Granada. Back in Magreb, Abu Hasan amassed his biggest army to undertake an invasion of Castile with the intention of undoing the previous century's Christian advances.

This invasion was a final attempt by the Marinids to set up a power base in the Iberian Peninsula. The Marinids had mobilised a vast army and, after crossing the Strait of Gibraltar and defeating a Christian fleet at Gibraltar, proceeded inland to the Salado River near Tarifa, where they met the Christians.

Preliminary moves
During the winter of 1340, Abu Hasan gathered his fleet: 60 war galleys and 250 other ships concentrated at Ceuta under command of Muhammad ibn Ali al-Azafi. They landed an army at Gibraltar, and on 8 April 1340 44 Muslim galleys and 35 leños met the Castilian fleet of 44 galleys and 7 naos, under Admiral Alfonso Jofre de Tenorio, in the straits. Al-Azafi surrounded and destroyed the Castilian fleet; Tenorio himself lost his life, 28 galleys and seven naos were captured and only 11 of his galleys managed to reach Cartagena. Five reached Tarifa.

Abu Hasan crossed the Gibraltar straits on 14 August 1340, and all through the summer troops and supplies were ferried across to the Peninsula. On 22 September the siege of Tarifa was formally established, with the help of Yusuf I. However the Sultan made a serious mistake: believing it would take many months for the Castilians to rebuild a fleet, and in the hope of cutting down the enormous cost of maintaining his own fleet, Abu Hasan prematurely laid up most of his galleys and returned those of his allies, leaving only 12 at Algeciras.

Meanwhile, Alfonso XI had sought the aid of the King of Aragón and of his father-in-law, King Afonso IV of Portugal. The latter sent a Portuguese naval fleet led by Manuel Pessanha, Admiral of Portugal, and additionally paid for the services of 15 Genoese galleys led by commander Micer Gil Bocanegra. With the addition of 27 ships hastily completed at Seville, the Christian fleets appeared in force in the Straits in October, cutting off the supply routes between Morocco and the Peninsula.

Abu Hasan's position was now a difficult one, not only because the troops besieging Tarifa depended on supplies from Morocco, but also the Kingdom of Granada needed them, their forces having launched a series of limited attacks all along the frontier to hold the Castilians at bay. On 10 October, a severe storm wrecked 12 Castilian galleys, and the same day the Sultan launched an all-out assault against Tarifa, which was barely repulsed with heavy losses on both sides.

Alfonso XI left Seville on 15 October 1340 with a relief army, joining the King of Portugal the next day. They advanced to the line of the Guadalete River and there awaited further Castilian and Portuguese contingents. At last on 26 October the combined army, now 20,000-strong, crossed into enemy territory. When informed of their advance, Abu Hasan ordered the siege raised and his army took position on a hill between Tarifa and the sea. Yusuf I placed his army on an adjacent hill. On the 29th the Christian army reached the Deer Hill (Hayar al-Ayyal), 8 km from Tarifa and barely 250 metres from the beach. Between them and their adversaries was a 4,500m long valley crossed by the streams of La Jara and El Salado. With supplies running low, Alfonso XI decided to attack the next day.

During the night, Alfonso XI had sent 1,000 horse and 4,000 foot troops to reinforce the Tarifa garrison, hoping to surprise the enemy rearguard during the battle; they had met only slight resistance by the 3,000 light cavalry covering the Salado and reached Tarifa without difficulty. However, the officer commanding the light cavalry informed Abu Hasan that not a single Christian had managed to enter Tarifa during the night; whether he made his report in good faith, or in fear of admitting failure will never be known, but this misinformation had serious consequences the next day.

Opposing forces
A Spanish contemporary chronicle estimated Abu Hasan's army at 40,000 knights and 400,000 infantry; figures regarded as grossly inflated by the historian Joseph O'Callaghan. Another account put forth 53,000 knights and 600,000 infantry for the Moors. A third chronicler postulated 70,000 knights and 400,000 infantry for the Marinids and 7,000 knights and 700,000 infantry for Granada. Archbishop Gil de Albornoz asserted a strength of 40,000 knights and 400,000 infantry for the combined Muslim force. The lowest figure is provided by Rodrigo Yánez's account, claiming that Abu Hasan deployed 60,000 men and that transporting the force across the Straits of Gibraltar took four months. Yánez's estimate is dismissed by O'Callaghan. The 17th century historian Ahmed Mohammed al-Maqqari, relying on an earlier text, also estimated 60,000 men as Abu Hasan's force. Granada had 7,000 knights and the Marinids may have mobilized up to 60,000 men. A Christian militia probably fought for the Emir of Granada at the battle. One Marinid prince fought on the Castilian side.

The Castilians mustered 8,000 knights and 12,000 infantry. The Portuguese brought 1,000 knights and Tarifa kept a garrison of 1,000 men, who took part in the battle. Alfonso sent 3,000 Castilian knights to help the 1,000 Portuguese knights attack Yusuf's 7,000 Granadan knights on the left. The Castilian infantry consisted of municipal militias, stationed in the middle, and soldiers from Asturias and the Basque territories, who were armed and equipped with lances, crossbows, helmets, and shields and were located next to Afonso IV's knights.

Battle
The council of war decided that the Castilian King would attack the Sultan's main army, while the Portuguese host, reinforced by 3,000 Castilians, would engage Yusuf I. At nine o'clock on the morning of 30 October 1340 they moved out of camp, leaving 2,000 raw militia to guard it. The strong Castilian vanguard was led by the Lara brothers, while the King himself rode in the main body. On the left were the missile troops from the Kingdom of León, led by Pedro Nuñez, and on the right Alvar Pérez de Guzmán with a cavalry corps. Reinforcing the Portuguese forces were the Military Orders of Alcántara and Calatrava.

Abu Hasan had left the Jara crossing uncontested, but he deployed strong forces along the Salado. The Castilian vanguard met serious resistance; de Lara was unable to cross the shallow river, but the King's natural sons Fernando and Fadrique led an 800-knight detachment towards the right and captured a small bridge, pushing back the 2,500 cavalry defending it. Alfonso reinforced them with 1,500 more knights and the Salado was successfully crossed. In the center, Juan Núñez de Lara and the Military Order of Santiago with 3,000 knights finally smashed through the enemy line and crossed too, riding hard up the hill where Abu Hasan's camp was clearly visible. The forces hidden in Tarifa also attacked the Sultan's camp at the same time, and the troops defending it (about 3,000 horse and 8,000 foot) withdrew, half of them fleeing towards Algeciras and the other half joining the main struggle in the valley, where the Sultan's army was still largely intact.

Alfonso now found himself dangerously isolated, with the right wing at some distance and the vanguard attacking the enemy camp. Abu Hasan ordered a general attack and the Castilian King himself was about to engage in hand-to-hand combat when the Archbishop of Toledo, Gil Álvarez Carrillo de Albornoz, grabbed his reins and prevented it. The timely arrival of the Castilian rearguard balanced the situation, and when the forces which had been sacking the Sultan's camp advanced down the hill and engaged the enemy from the rear, Abu Hasan's surrounded army broke and fled towards Algeciras.

Meanwhile, the Portuguese military contingent had crossed the Río Salado, and when Pedro Nuñez reinforced them the whole Granada contingent broke and left the field. The battle took just three hours from 9 a.m. until noon.

The allied Castilian and Portuguese pursuit against the Muslims was ruthless, ending at the Guadamecí River, 6 km from the battlefield, although many remained in the hills, sacking the Sultan's rich camp. Little mercy was shown here, and many of the Sultan's wives were killed, including his first wife Fatimah (daughter of the Sultan of Tunis) and Aysa (daughter of the noble Abu Yahya ibn Yaqub). Other kinfolk of Abu Hasan were taken captive, including his sister Umalfat, his son Abu Umar Tasufin, and his nephew Alí. Many notables were killed in the battle or the rout, such as Abu Tabit ibn Fath Allah, Abu Muyahid Gazi ibn al-Ka's, and Muhammad ben Yahya ben Abi Bakr, also the famous writer from Granada, Abdullah ben Salmun, and the popular imam Ibn al-Khatib.

Both Abu Hasan and Yusuf reached Algeciras; the Sultan took refuge at Gibraltar, and that same night crossed to Ceuta in a galley.

Aftermath
The Marinids had suffered a decisive defeat and moved back to Africa.

Never again was a Muslim army able to invade the Iberian Peninsula. Control of the Straits of Gibraltar was now held by the Christians, specifically the Castilians and the Genoese. The war with Granada continued for ten more years during which Alfonso XI made a few small territorial gains from the western part of Granada. Most importantly, the town of Algeciras, a valuable bridgehead held by the Marinids was finally retaken after a two-year siege in 1344. This siege attracted volunteers from all over Europe due to extensive publicity. An attempt to recapture Gibraltar from the King of Granada was frustrated, however Castile had to settle for isolation of the citadel from the rest of Muslim territory when peace was agreed in 1350, after the death of Alfonso XI in his camp during the Great Plague. Gibraltar was not captured until 1492.

title: Battle of Río Salado


text:
Talk:FC Porto

Porto History!
There is no evidences that the club started in 1893. A former president and founder of the club wrote a text in 1926 that a group left "Grupo do Destino" in 1906 to start Foot-ball Club do Porto with no references to any connections to António Nicolau de Almeida, the man said to be the founder of the club. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.159.28 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 11 October 2007

 * If you can read portuguese, read this. If you can't, the very first sentence translates as follows: "There is not a shadow of a doubt: Foot Ball Club do Porto was founded on 28 September 1893." Also, check the club's website or the "Dragão Ano 111" books, the official history of FC Porto. It has been established as a fact that the FC Porto founded in 1893 is the one that was reactivated in 1906 and the one we know today. Lampadinha 23:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The only thing you are saying, and that is the only thing that was proven till today, is that there was a club with the same name in Oporto between 1983 and 1984.

The founders of the actual F C Porto had nothing to do with that and knew nothing about it, so they did not reactivate the club. This "reactivation" was conceived many years after when someone read old news papers and found that Nicolau de Almeida existed. A nice story was created but no facts have ever shown that Nicolau de Almeida ever met the ones who left "Grupo do Destino" to found FCPorto.

This decision was taken during the PINTO da COSTA presidency... till then the foundation of Porto was 2nd of August 1906.

All the "official" things you show were made in the last years... during the same presidency and the value of it is 0. History should not be changed!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.159.28 (talk) 06:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I know the decision to change the club's birth date was made during Pinto da Costa's presidency, because documents were found proving that the club was the same one. Or at least that's what it says in ALL sources, because I've obviously not seen the documents myself. If you've been checking the facts/documents/archives yourself and think all sources are wrong and the FC Porto founded in 1906 has nothing to do with the FC Porto founded in 1893, write a book about it and then you can include that information as an alternative version. Until then, we'll just have to let the article as it is, even if you are 100% sure of the opposite, because as we all know Wikipedia has a no original research policy. Lampadinha 07:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.record.pt/noticia.asp?id=806506&idCanal=3437 - do you need more proof that FCPorto was founded in 1906?213.22.249.5 (talk) 08:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Dct9kZrQc -> check it out! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.96.45 (talk) 02:11, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, FC Porto was founded on 2 August 1906 by José Monteiro da Costa, the club's first president. SLBedit (talk) 19:30, 29 September 2014 (UTC) But it's considered original research. SLBedit (talk) 15:10, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Error
How can FC Porto have 27 championship titles instead of 26 if it won 1 experimental edition (in the 1934-35 season)? The experimental editions shouldn't count! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.247.84.149 (talk) 23:40, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

 * All of the first four editions of the Primeira Liga (1934–35, 1935–36, 1936–37, 1937–38) were experimental; only in 1938–39 it became the official national championship (replacing the Campeonato de Portugal). Those editions were not counted as official titles until somewhere in the late 90s/early 00s, when either the national federation or the league (don't know for sure nor do I have reliable sources) decided to consider them official. If you go to the Primeira Liga website, you'll see Porto with 27 titles, including the 1934–35. Parutakupiu (talk) 02:36, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I concur. The Primeira Liga was introduced on a probationary basis. Since no parallel competition existed at the time to provide national honours continuity, the national footballing authorities in the late nineties, early two thousands, agreed and rightly so in my humble opinion, to give credit to the results of the four years in question. CharlieCares (talk) 15:20, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 20 January 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. I will move this article and related articles, but you will need to request the categories be moved at WP:CfD - they should be nominated for speedy moving. Number  5  7  17:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

F.C. Porto → FC Porto – The club (even in the crest) is always refered to as FC Porto not F.C. Porto. The club itself, Portuguese media, UEFA, FIFA, sports websites, etc, all write "FC Porto". This is similar to FC Barcelona, FC Bayern Munich, etc. SLBedit (talk) 19:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Parutakupiu (talk) 20:10, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Red Slash 02:52, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Suggest - that an RFC would be more WP:CONSISTENT, see Category:Football clubs in Portugal. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. --BDD (talk) 14:58, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Support - I've never seen it written with '.' and also matches sources and naming conventions for this club. GiantSnowman 08:44, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mention of Apito Dourado in the lead
I think Apito Dourado should be mentioned in the lead of the article because this corruption scandal forever tarnished FCP's image, so it is relevant indeed. In the 90s people already talked about corruption by Pinto da Costa's FC Porto, and in the 2000s, that corruption was proven. To mention honours won during Apito Dourado while not mentioning the corruption case is bias. SLBedit (talk) 22:03, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

 * Again, the case is mentioned in the history section and was never removed. The fact that you want to place it in the lead... that's a lot, but a lot of individual bias. Especially given the examples I gave you for comparison: Marseille, Juventus, Genoa, Olympiakos, etc. Please, go to the lead of their articles and do the exact same thing.

 * The trial started, kept going and... Porto kept winning during those years (factual bias), so honestly I don't see the correlation you are trying to impose with the club's honours. But just for clarification, is it bias to mention in the lead of Benfica's article (as long as it is properly sourced): Vale Azevedo, Luís Filipe Vieira, Paulo Gonçalves and like you know, many other distinct personalities? I just want to know if we can open precedents based on people's behavior when they hold positions of power within clubs. Obviously on the basis of "relevant content to the lead, as omissions lead to bias." Blahhh23 (talk) 08:04, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

 * That's not a good excuse to remove Apito Dourado from the lead. It's factual that currently there is an Apito Dourado 2.0 ("factual bias"). It's factual that none of the people you mentioned are suspected of bribing/buying referees. It's also factual that Pinto da Costa and Porto were condemned in court for active corruption. Even Porto admitted it in a statement. It was proven that Porto and other minor clubs were responsible for match fixing in the early 2000s. So, at the end of the day, I can only conclude that you live in denial, and that you are doing WP:ADVOCACY. SLBedit (talk) 13:06, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 * I don't agree. Let's analyze your edit proposal. You wrote in the article's lead: "In 2008, Porto was condemned of active corruption following Apito Dourado." This is false, because the Portuguese criminal court system did not convict neither the institution nor the alleged perpetrator. Regarding the Portuguese League, the disciplinary committee punished Porto with a six-point deduction in the 2007–08 season and then retracted the punishment in 2017. 1. This part is missing from the Apito Dourado article. You should add it.

 * You also wrote: "To mention honours won during Apito Dourado while not mentioning the corruption case is bias". It is mentioned in Porto's history section. Regarding the case, no correlation was established between it and the honours won in those years by the club (final verdict). For the bias argument, I must insist. On other club's article leads (for which I offer examples) you find no mention of the cases (proven and unproven) by people that are or were connected to those institutions. That is my primary point. The leads on football club articles mention: club names, who are the supporters, stadiums, records, uefa rankings... You already know, you are an experienced editor.

 * Are we going to open a precedent on club articles (and yes, biased) to include people's names mentioned in football corruption cases (again, proven and unproven) in the lead? As of the time of this discussion, the club you support is directly or indirectly involved in the following: E-toupeira, Mala Ciao, Vouchers, E-mails, Operação Lex, Saco Azul and Jogos Viciados (some of these cases actually refer to "bribing/buying referees" among a lot of other things). 2 3 Also, do you think that these cases will "forever tarnish Benfica's image"? 4 5

 * I also do not agree with the denial accusation because I never removed the sentence regarding the case from the Porto's history section. Never. All I did here, was read the Wikipedia article regarding the case and presented what is written. However, this sentence in WP:ADVOCACY is very straight to the point: "Some editors come to Wikipedia with the goal of raising the visibility or credibility of a specific topic, term or viewpoint, leading to disproportionate coverage, false balance and reference spamming".

 * Taking the sentence into consideration, I can also (apparently) conclude that this type of behavior refers to you. If there is still no consensus, please, feel free to counter. I will try to respond as soon as I can. Blahhh23 (talk) 14:27, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 * "FC Porto have been deducted six points for the alleged bribery of referees during the 2003/04 season while Boavista FC have been relegated for similar offences." "O FC Porto não vai recorrer da pena de perda de seis pontos que lhe foi hoje imposta pela Comissão Disciplinar da Liga, no âmbito do processo "Apito Final", anuncia o líder dos "dragões" em conferência de imprensa" Porto wasn't "absolved" many years later (not a coincidence) because they were innocent, but due to (il)legal procedures, e.g. Porto supporters in positions of power, a few examples: Fernando Gomes, who was caught arranging prostitutes for referees, Tiago Craveiro, and Pedro Proença, also caught in the wiretaps. Porto did buy / bribe referees. Referee Jacinto Paixão confirmed that Porto bribed him with prostitutes. Porto and its president Pinto da costa were caught match fixing, offering prostitutes to referees, telling Pedro Proença what to do, a person known for helping Porto while a referee, and who now helps Porto as president of Liga Portugal. Porto's titles are linked to corruption and many other scandals. This is undeniable.

 * You are trying to steer the conversation about Porto's corruption with sensationalism. Porto hired "hacker" Rui Pinto to steal emails from Benfica; Porto was then condemned for manipulating those emails. With thousands of stolen emails, Porto and Sporting, who made an alliance against Benfica in 2017 because of that,  couldn't find any sports corruption.  Facts: Porto has been condemned for stealing emails and bribing referees. Conclusion, Porto is a corrupt club and you're trying to hide that fact from the article because you are a Porto fan.

 * Porto loves to brag about titles while hiding the ugly truth about them: they only won mostly due to corruption in sports and politics, attacks on referees, journalists, football fans, other clubs... I could be here all day listing what Porto has done over the past 40 years. So, yes, I still think Apito Dourado should be mentioned in the lead, as Porto's titles are linked to proven corruption, which is pretty clear that is still ongoing. (Hello, VAR?)

 * Santiago Segurola: "It is terrible what is happening to football (...) In the last few years proven corruption cases have emerged from Italy and Portugal (...) There are people who want to win so much that they are willing to break the rules in the most obscene ways. One of the things that surprises the most is that they (the teams involved) are always the same: Juventus, Porto..."
 * Even Alex Ferguson stated that Porto buys league titles. Apito Dourado is a stain in Porto's history, a club that could not dominate Portuguese football and win without corruption by Pinto da Costa, "a thug" (thank you, Frederico Varandas, for speaking for the Portuguese). SLBedit (talk) 18:27, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 * I wrote about the aftermath of the case. That is not is sensationalism. Those are the facts that are documented on the case's article and various sources. In this discussion, all I've read (written by you) were personal accusations and attacks. Words like "brag", "ugly", "terrible", "stain", "undeniable", "thug" are what? Sensationalism, I would say.

 * The articles I sent you about the club you support, say a lot but prove nothing because (until this day) there is no final verdict. In the case of Porto there was, and it's final. So this sentence: "In 2008, Porto was condemned of active corruption following Apito Dourado" is factually incorrect. So, I will ask again, do you want to open precedents in article leads? Which, and repeating myself, does not occur in the examples I recommended you to check. Blahhh23 (talk) 20:23, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 * You try and try to steer the discussion but with no avail, and your victimization attempt is pathetic. Why should I care about Juventus article or others? We are discussing this one. Porto was indeed condemned for active AND passive corruption in Apito Final, in 2008. Instead of removing/censoring Porto's notable conviction from the lead, it could be rephrased: "Porto was sentenced for match-fixing in 2008 but this decision was overruled in 2017." This is most neutral way of putting it because it doesn't say Porto is guilty or innocent, nor does it correlate Porto's titles with corruption, so the reader can make his/her own judgement. SLBedit (talk) 21:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 * I used your own words, no victimization is necessary. Especially regarding you, my friend. Returning to the point in question, in article leads of any other club there is nothing on corruption cases, those who have it are in the history sections. However, with tremendous bias and factual despite for the club, you insist on making this one "different".

 * But let's do this. I oppose any edition you make in the lead regarding this subject. But I won't remove the edition you eventually choose to write. Have fun. Blahhh23 (talk) 21:57, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 * I have added a neutral sentence. By the way, congratulations for the murder of a Porto supporter by Porto supporters during Porto celebrations! At least this time it wasn't a "suicide" at Estadio do Dragao with the gun disappearing on its own. SLBedit (talk) 00:22, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

 * Very sad news indeed. Still, I feel like you need a hug. If I meet you personally, that's what I would do. Just a good hug and a smile. After that, maybe (just maybe) you would realize that there is more to life than fanaticism and the time you dispense to it.
 * Exposing your club's corruption isn't fanaticism, it's a civic duty. I don't hug supporters of a criminal organization, but it's a good feeling to assault them. SLBedit (talk) 14:55, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

 * I was away for a while, and then I came back and read your last sentence. I've changed my stance on trying a resolution with you and removed your edition. If you don't agree, check with an administrator. I maintain my previous point on club article leads. Blahhh23 (talk) 17:31, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Did your superiors tell you to remove it because of Varandas' speech? Laughable. SLBedit (talk) 21:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Do you want to help me with something, by the way? If you can, go to "Segunda Liga" talk page and join the discussion. Share your opinion (positive or negative) on the possibility of changing the article's name. Blahhh23 (talk) 08:48, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:FC Porto


text:
Talk:Cat coat genetics

comment
Wouldn't it be better to explain the Orange/Black genes with better terms than O and o. The way I learned it was X^O and X^B. That way it showed it was on the X chromosome and that it was incomplete dominance. - not signed

 * O and o are the standard terms used among cat breeders. We're not making the terms up, we're reporting them. - Nunh-huh 00:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Where does one take that the O gene has incomplete dominance? I was always taught it is completely dominant.Ramdrake 16:48, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I, too, like the X-superscript system, but I don't like using B vs. O. I see the letter B and think TRP-1. More correctly it should be upper-case and lower case O as the superscript, but given the limitations of the medium, I'll accept O/o. NOT an incomplete dominant but a sex-linked gene. And definitely NOT "the black" gene. They are getting close to finding it, BTW. Not MCR-1 as everyone (including me!) thought, though. Probably Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone, with the wild-type enzyme competing with ASIP on MCR-1, while the mutated form is non-functional --Lorraine

Nepetalactone, catnip, Nepeta effect is genetic too. Some cats ignore catnip. Sensitivity to catnip is an easy gene test. Does it correlate to colour" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.190.213 (talk) 08:09, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

White Spotting Gene
The white spotting gene does not affect eye colour in cats. The colourpoint genes are the genes responsible for creating the blue eyes in cats. Snowshoes, Ragdolls and Birmans are examples of cats that have (or can have) the white spotting gene (ss) and the colourpoint (cscs) gene. The blue eyes comes from the colourpoint not the white spotting so it seems misleading to have a paragraph about ss and then talk about blue eyes. Is it okay for me to go ahead and change this? Cuddleton (talk) 08:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Freckles
BTW, Where did THIS come from? "Freckles are spots of pigmentation of the underlying sepia color of the cat (see B gene) and can occur on the lips, nose, or ears. The W gene does not prevent freckles or alter eye color, although most cats with this gene have either blue or orange eyes."

First of all "sepia" is a TICA term for a cbcb cat. The B (tyrosine related protein-1) locus is the black/chocolate/cinnamon series. The W gene most definitely is capable of altering eye color through melanocyte apoptosis!!

"Freckles" are simply hyperpigmentation and/or somatic mutation and reversion to wild-type in phaeomelanistic cats (the black spot on the red cat syndrome). In white and white spotted cats, surviving melanocytes can migrate just about anywhere and create a small spot of color. --Lorraine

useful separation?

 * Breeders usually find it useful to identify and separate cats with tabby genes ...

Why is such separation useful? —Tamfang 03:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I've worked a bit on this section. I believe the intent was to identify, not separate, tabby cats. - Lorraine —Preceding unsigned comment added by Featherland (talk • contribs) 23:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Maltese dilution?
I was expecting this term to be mentioned, at least. Eroica 11:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I suggest that Bicolor cat and Tortoiseshell cat be merged into this article as both pages rely heavily on information found in this page. Repeating information about cat genetics in different articles is redundant, and I believe all of the articles could be simplified and made more cohesive if they were all placed together.Kpstewart (talk) 02:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Bicolor cat is too long for a subsection, imho. —Tamfang (talk) 17:31, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Agreed with —Tamfang --6th Happiness (talk) 18:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree too long to go here Telecine Guy 18:24, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Two questions
I have two genetics-newbie questions that aren't answered by this article. First, why do housecats display such a wide variety of colours and coat patterns when, e.g., lions do not? Second, I read somewhere that the pattern of spots on cats' coats is related to circumstances in the mother's womb while the kitten is developing. I've heard that as an explanation for why even cloned cats do not precisely resemble one another. Is there a word for that scientific concept? --Hapax (talk) 19:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

 * If I can reverse your first question, why do lions display only one coat color and pattern? Because there is evolutionary pressure to develop characteristics that assist them as predators, and among those characteristics is a coat that helps them not obviously stand out against the background of the veldt. The occasional snow white lion doesn't do well as a hunter, dies early, and doesn't reproduce (if lions had predators, such a lion would be more prone to being killed as well). The housecat, though, is domesticated; by "adopting" it as our own, humans have more or less eliminated natural selection as the driver of their evolution and replaced it with our own breeding choices. And among the choices that we've made is that we like our cats in a variety of colors and hair lengths and patterns, and we've bred them specifically for that variety. As for the second question, while the general pattern and color of coats is genetically determined, the specific implementation of that pattern depends on environment and chance; it's that way with most traits. I think it's likely that pattern in particular is more happenstance than any specific womb-related variables. - Nunh-huh 02:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Thank you very much for your informative answer. I would like to know more about the 'environment and chance' variables that lead to the placement of spots or stripes on an animal's body.  If you can suggest a place to look, either here on Wikipedia or elseweb, that will teach me about that, I'd be much obliged.  I don't even know what to Google.  --Hapax (talk) 16:07, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Cameo
I take a degree of issue with the assertion :"Orange cats with the inhibitor gene (I-O-) are commonly called "cameo". Surely red silver tabby is also I-O and I-O-aa is a red smoke. So how do we distinguish red silver tabby and cameo - are they both I-O-A? Can we agree on what a cameo is? is it agouti or non-agouti and what are the non-agouti cameos really? poorly marked smokes? is a red shaded cameo distinguishable from a red mackerel tabby? does cameo deserve a page of its own? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Excellentone (talk • contribs) 20:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC) Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that 'Orange cats with the inhibitor gene (I-O-) are commonly called "cameo" in the USA' -  where indeed there are cameo smokes and cameo tabbies - in the UK they are red smokes and red silver tabbies.Excellentone (talk) 22:34, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Nit-pick: Don't use "USA" in article prose, per MOS:ABBR. Use "US" or "United States".  Less of a nit-pick: Trying to make this sound like a WP:ENGVAR issue is not very accurate or helpful. TICA is not US-only (the I stands for "International").  I don't know if CFA is UK-only. And there's the WCF now. These are principally, not matters of national dialect vocabulary; the fancier/breeder orgs. made up these terms for the most part, and only the most basic ones like "tabby" come from the language outside of these orgs.  Where each org. has its HQ is not tremendously relevant in matters like this. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib.  05:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Merge proposed
This article badly needs work. It does not even begin to explain terms like smoke and shaded, for example. It also misses that CFA uses the term parti-color (British parti-colour) instead of tortoiseshell. And lots of other stuff. For starters, the information at Cats and humans needs to be merged into Cat coat genetics, because a) much of it is missing here, and b) it's not really directly relevant in that level of detail to the article it is presently in. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib.  05:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

 * I Agree with this merge proposal. That is not material directly relevant to Cats and humans, any more than discussing the skin colors of humans would be relevant. Agricolae (talk) 18:21, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree with merge: I realise I am late to the party but am working on these cat articles today; especially behaviour and colours. The merge of the above named section on coat patterns into this article would be profitable and sensible.  Fylbecatulous   talk  16:58, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I think cats and humans should be merged into the domestic cat article because those are the breeds that live among humans. It should be made a section of domestic cat.--Nadirali نادرالی (talk) 23:14, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Smilodon
So, does this mean that the smilodon's fur coat was probably white?

2600:8800:8880:6A60:B4C2:D910:C557:20AD (talk) 11:40, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The word "Smilodon" is Greek for "chisel tooth", and nothing to do with smiling. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:26, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

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Male tortoiseshells
Re the citation needed. The Schmidt-Küntzel et al (2009) reference has a brief comment addressing this: The mosaic phenotype is almost exclusive to females; rare occurrences in males have been explained by sex chromosome aneuploidy (XXY), chimerism, mosaicism, and somatic mutations (reviewed in Moran et al. 1984). The Moran abstract is suggests several mechanisms for the male tortoiseshell, not all of which are sterile. Unfortunately, I can't access the full text of the reference.  Jts1882 | talk 15:35, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks worth integrating more directly.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:19, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Pink cats
I've just updated the pink cat article, which until yesterday said that pink cats didn't exist in nature then blithely included two photos captioned as pink cats. From skimming sources it seems like it might be fair to say that a "red cameo" cat could be regarded as having a pinkish colour, but this may be the confirmation-bias thing of asking the entire depths of Google Books whether anyone, however incorrectly, has ever described a cat as pink. Can I get a second opinion from someone who knows about cat colours? --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:24, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

 * No, a red cameo cat does not look pink or pinkish. Neither does cream or apricot cameo. Those colors tend to be either red or orange in hue. The only pink cats I have ever heard of or seen were either fictitious, or dyed somehow.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 13:40, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Edit: Just remembered, certain (highly uncommon) colors may appear to have a pinkish tint. Specifically, cinnamon-based caramel is described as a "pinkish-brown" according to |Messybeast.com. But that is also incredibly rare, and not actually pink.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 13:55, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Siamese cats and fever coat

 * I suspect that the Siamese gene is a mutation of the gene that makes fever coat, that brings the fever coat critical temperature down a few degrees, so that fever coat develops at ordinary non-fever cat blood temperature. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:30, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Tabby Genes and Alleles
The one-gene theory of tabby previously put forth by Kaelin et. al (2006) was conclusively overturned by Eizirik et. al in 2010 - that paper is also cited as proving that spotted tabby is polygenic.

I am also highly skeptical of the claim that cats homozygous for the ticked allele show no leg, neck, and tail banding - studies "proving" this seem to use exclusively Abyssinians, a breed required to have little to no residual banding, and don't account for the possibility of it being polygenic. Furthermore, I've yet to see a cat like this outside of the few breeds where the ticked pattern is required to be clear, or crosses thereof. Many breeds - Maine Coons, for example - have ticked tabbies that are presumably bred to each other, but they seem to have yet to produce a ticked with no leg and neck striping. Unfortunately, people have been relying on this assumption from a 1988 paper that has otherwise been thoroughly disproved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparrowsgarden (talk • contribs) 04:41, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

"White spotting gene" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect White spotting gene and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 28 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 20:07, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

"White Coat Pattern" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect White Coat Pattern and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 28 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 20:12, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Unreliable sources
I flagged a couple of citations to the MessyBeast blog as unreliable for genetic and veterinary information, because that's just some random non-expert's personal blog. It may be popular due to marketing, but it is not an RS for this sort of material.

However, I'm seeing a lot of other dubious sources in there that appear to be more blogs, UGC, and/or clickbait content sites. This really needs a top-to-bottom review of the sourcing. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:22, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cat coat genetics


text:
Caro

Caro may refer to:

Places

 * Caro, Michigan, United States
 * Caro, Morbihan, France
 * Çaro, Pyrénées-Atlantiques, France

Other uses

 * Caro (given name), including a list of people with the given name
 * Caro (surname), including a list of people with the surname
 * Caro (drink), a drink by Nestlé
 * Caro (horse) (1967–1989), a French Thoroughbred racehorse
 * "Caro" (Bad Bunny song), 2018
 * "Caro" (L.A.X and Wizkid song), 2013
 * CARO, Computer Antivirus Research Organization
 * Caro Ru Lushe, a fictional character in Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS
 * Caro, a Vietnamese variant of the game Gomoku
 * Polonez Caro or FSO Polonez, a Polish automobile

title: Caro


text:
The Devil to Pay (Parkinson novel)

The Devil to Pay is one of a series of nautical novels by C. Northcote Parkinson. It is set in the late 18th Century, when Britain was at war with Revolutionary France. Parkinson's hero is a junior naval officer. Unlike many fictional officers, Parkinson's hero, Richard Delancey, does not have any powerful patrons to ease his way to promotion.

The novel starts with Delancey accepting the temporary command of a small cutter. Delancey is from the Island of Guernsey, and is fluent in French. His knowledge of French will make it easier for him to land Royalist agents who are part of a plan to prepare for an invasion to restore the French monarchy.

This secret mission appears to have been a failure. And it leaves Delancey on the beach, living on his half-pay.

So he leaps at a chance to accept the temporary command of a small customs vessel. He is unexpectedly successful at intercepting smuggled goods so one of the owners of some of the smuggling vessels offers him the much better position of command of a privateer.

He is a successful privateer commander. He has several successful cruises. But, eventually his ship is wrecked on the enemy shore. Delancey and some of his remaining crew decide to try to escape back to England. During their escape Delancey acquires some valuable intelligence.

With the aid of a smuggler who works for his boss he is able to make contact with an RN frigate cruising offshore. The Captain of that vessel mounts an expedition to rescue Delancey and recover the secret papers. One of his lieutenants is lost. And Delancey is offered to take his place.

The novel ends with Delancey again serving in the Royal Navy.

It is believed that the phrase The Devil to Pay refers to the task of caulking, or paying, the deck seams with hot pitch. The outermost seam—between the deck and the hull—is the hardest to caulk. It is called the devil. The full phrase is The devil to pay, and no pitch hot—more generally the phrase is used to refer to any urgent, desperate situation. However this has been disputed in numerous sources and WorldWideWords.com references the phrase as:

This novel was the first Parkinson wrote. The next novel in the series is The Fireship. Parkinson later went back and wrote a prequel, The Guernseyman, set during the American Revolution.

Critical reaction
'all those C.S. Forester fans are going to pick it up tenderly' Sunday Telegraph1

'Mr Parkinson is an expert on naval history and on sailing, and this bracing, well-plotted and exiting story reveals his knowledge' Books and Bookmen1

'The action is good, the historical detail impeccable' Spectator1

title: The Devil to Pay (Parkinson novel)


text:
User:Frontierbrass

I'm Dave Seip, college student, musician, drum corps guy, all that fun stuff. More here: http://www.davidseiptuba.com

title: User:Frontierbrass


text:
Don't Cry

"Don't Cry" is a song by American hard rock band Guns N' Roses, two versions of which were released simultaneously on different albums. The version with the original lyrics is the fourth track on Use Your Illusion I (1991), while the version with the alternate lyrics is the 13th track on Use Your Illusion II (1991). Only the vocal tracks differ, and even then only in the verses; however, in those verses, not only are the words entirely different, but the meter and melody are also slightly different. There is also a third version, officially released only on the single for the song, which was recorded during Appetite for Destruction sessions in 1986.

Referred to as a power ballad, "Don't Cry" reached the top 10 in many countries, including peaking at number eight on the UK Singles Chart and number 10 on the US Billboard Hot 100. In Ireland, "Don't Cry" became Guns N' Roses' second number-one single, and in Finland, it became the second number-one hit from the Use Your Illusion albums. The song also topped Portugal's music chart, reached number two in New Zealand and Norway, and peaked within the top five in Australia, Denmark, and Switzerland. Andy Morahan and Mark Racco directed its accompanying music video.

Composition and recording
Stradlin and Rose wrote the song (with the working title "Don't You Cry Tonight") in March 1985, shortly after Guns N' Roses was formed in Los Angeles. In fact, at a show in Atlantic City, NJ on September 12, 2021, Rose claimed it was "the first song that was written for Guns N’ Roses.” In the 1993 video Don't Cry: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part I Rose says that "Don't Cry" was their most Hanoi Rocks -influenced song. In the Special Collector's Edition of Rolling Stone dedicated to the band, Kory Grow quotes Rose:

"It was [about] a girl that Izzy had gone out with, and I was really attracted to her, and they split up. I was sitting outside the Roxy, and I was really in love with this person and she was realizing this wasn't going to work – she wanted to do other things, and she was telling me goodbye and I sat down and just started crying, and she was telling me, 'Don't cry.' The next night, we got together and wrote the song in five minutes."

At the September 2021 Atlantic City show cited above, Rose told the crowd:

"“I went over to Izzy’s and I threw some rocks at his window. He came to the window and was worried I came over there to kick his ass. We’d been in an argument for a few months. It was like the Blues Brothers. ‘We gotta get the band back together'...We sat down, and I was like, ‘Hey, I got some really depressing lyrics.’ He was like, ‘I got a really depressing guitar part.’ I was like, ‘Perfect, we got it made.'”"

In his book Over the Top: The True Story of Guns N' Roses, Mark Putterford notes the song's contrast with much of the other material on the Illusion albums, citing Rose's "deeply ingrained whore/madonna dichotomy" and his "dew-eyed romantic cooing with tenderness." "Don't Cry" features Shannon Hoon of Blind Melon as a co-lead vocalist. Hoon sings an octave higher than Rose, and his voice is placed further back in the mix; Hoon also appears in the music video, singing alongside Rose during the helipad scenes. In his autobiography, Slash states that Hoon's harmony vocal "made that song all the more soulful." Along with "Estranged" and "November Rain," it forms a narrative inspired in part by the short story "Without You" by Del James.

Music video
The official music video for the song was directed by Andy Morahan and Mark Racco. John Linson was the producer of the video.

Rose commented on the difficulty of filming the video and how certain scenes inspired by his relationship with Erin Everly affected him emotionally: "With our video for 'Don't Cry,' and the fight that Stephanie Seymour, (Axl's then-current girlfriend) and I had over the gun, you don't necessarily know what's going on. But in real life that happened with Erin Everly (Axl's ex-wife) and myself. I was going to shoot myself. We fought over the gun and I finally let her win. I was kind of mentally crippled after that. Before shooting our documentary, I said, 'This seems really hard, 'cause it really happened.' And the night we wrote the scene, my friend Josh said, 'Okay, how are you going to play that?' He wanted to rehearse and I was like, 'Look, leave me alone.' But he kept pushing until, finally, I stood up. I had this cigarette lighter that looked like a real gun and I said, 'Look, I'm gonna do it like this.' And I just went over and slammed around in the hallway a bit and threw the gun and said, 'Is that good enough for you?'"

Izzy Stradlin did not attend the music video shoot by the time the band came to film the video and therefore does not appear in the video for the song he co-wrote. A month later, it was announced he had quit the band. A sign saying 'Where's Izzy' can be seen in the video. Stradlin later deemed the multi-million dollar video "a pointless indulgence."

Axl Rose also briefly wore a St. Louis Cardinals baseball cap in the video. This is possibly a reference to the Riverport Riot that occurred after Guns N' Roses performed at the Riverport Ampitheater in St. Louis on July 2, 1991. They were banned from performing there again, but played there again on July 27, 2017 on the Not In This Lifetime... Tour.

Live performances
"Don't Cry" was performed quite frequently during the early tours and the Use Your Illusion Tour. It was absent from the early legs (i.e. 2001–02) of the Chinese Democracy Tour but reappeared to an extent in 2006, as guitarist Bumblefoot began using an instrumental version of the song as a guitar solo spot. In 2007, during the Bumblefoot solo spot, Axl came on stage to sing along to the solo on two occasions, marking the first times since 1993 that Axl had sung it live.

"Don't Cry" made another return during the 2009/2010 World Tour, with Axl singing along with the solo spot on each occasion that it has been played.

A recording of the song from the Tokyo Dome was released on the album Live Era '87–'93 and a VHS/DVD. A further recording was issued on Appetite for Democracy 3D.

Track listing

 * CD single (Geffen 21651)
 * 1) "Don't Cry" (original) – 4:42
 * 2) "Don't Cry" (alt. lyrics) – 4:42
 * 3) "Don't Cry" (demo – 1985 Mystic Studio Sessions) – 4:42

Personnel

 * W. Axl Rose – lead vocals
 * Slash – lead guitar
 * Izzy Stradlin – rhythm guitar, backing vocals
 * Duff McKagan – bass, backing vocals
 * Matt Sorum – drums
 * Dizzy Reed – keyboard

Additional musicians
 * Shannon Hoon – co-lead vocals
 * Steven Adler – drums (demo version)

title: Don't Cry


text:
Caraceni (company)

Caraceni is an Italian tailoring house, founded in Rome in 1913 by the father of Italian tailoring, Domenico Caraceni. At one point in the 1930s, Domenico and his family operated ateliers in Rome, Milan and Paris. The Paris atelier was operated by Domenico's brother, Augusto, who closed his atelier when Mussolini declared war on France.

Today, there are several businesses going by the name "Caraceni" in operation. The original shop operates out of a small location in Rome with a very small workforce. This is run by Tommy and Giulio Caraceni, nephews of Domenico. There are three branches in Milan, all founded by offshoots of the clan, one even claiming to be the "real Caraceni." However, the cognoscenti consider A. Caraceni, currently operated by Mario Caraceni (son of Augusto) to be the best of the Milan branches. These suits are what is known as "bench bespoke," meaning they are made one at a time, by hand, to a pattern specifically drawn for each individual customer.

Gianni Campagna, once an apprentice at Sartoria Domenico Caraceni in Milan, acquired the Sartoria Domenico Caraceni label in 1998. Under this name, his company makes expensive made-to-measure suits out of the Palazzo Bernasconi in Milan. This business is separate from and not affiliated with the other Caraceni bespoke ateliers in Rome and Milan.

Notable clients
The various Caraceni "sartorias" have made suits for various celebrities over the years, including Tyrone Power, Humphrey Bogart, Gary Cooper, Cary Grant, Yves Saint Laurent, Gianni Agnelli, Diego Granese, Sophia Loren and fashion designer Valentino Garavani. The Caraceni label is also famous for dressing generations of The Kings of Greece and Italy, The Prince of Wales, Prince Rainier of Monaco, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and Aristotle Onassis. International fashion designers including Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, Gianfranco Ferrè and Karl Lagerfeld frequented the atelier over the years. In the 1950s and 1960s the A. Caraceni brand was the chosen tailor of many in the Italian automotive circle, including Gianni Agnelli and Enzo Ferrari.

title: Caraceni (company)


text:
Minister of Home Affairs (India)

The Minister of Home Affairs (or simply, the Home Minister, short-form HM) is the head of the Ministry of Home Affairs of the Government of India. One of the senior-most officers in the Union Cabinet, the chief responsibility of the home minister is the maintenance of the internal security of India; the country's large police force comes under its jurisdiction. Occasionally, they are assisted by the Minister of State of Home Affairs and the lower-ranked Deputy Minister of Home Affairs.

Ever since the time of independent India's first Home Minister, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, the office has been seen as second in seniority only to the Prime Minister in the union cabinet. Like Patel, several Home Ministers have since held the additional portfolio of Deputy Prime Minister. As of February 2020, three Home Ministers have gone on to become the Prime Minister: Lal Bahadur Shastri, Charan Singh and P. V. Narasimha Rao. L.K. Advani, serving from 19 March 1998 to 22 May 2004, has held the office of the Home Minister for the longest continuous period, as of February 2020.

On several occasions, the Prime Minister also held the additional portfolio of the Minister of Home Affairs. Jawaharlal Nehru briefly acted as home minister in 1950 following the demise of Vallabhbhai Patel, Indira Gandhi briefly served as home minister in 1966 following resignation of Gulzarilal Nanda, Morarji Desai held the portfolio from 1978 till 1979, Chandra Shekhar throughout his prime ministerial tenure and H. D. Deve Gowda briefly served as home minister in 1996.

P. Chidambaram who served as the home minister from 2008 till 2012 has the rare distinction of serving as both cabinet minister and minister of state in the ministry. He served as minister of state from 1986 till 1989. The current minister is Amit Shah of the Bharatiya Janata Party who has been in office since 31 May 2019 and succeeded his party colleague Rajnath Singh as the home minister.

title: Minister of Home Affairs (India)


text:
File:Caraceni (logo).jpg

Summary
Caraceni logo. Derived from a JPEG.

title: File:Caraceni (logo).jpg


text:
File:LeavingIslam.jpeg

 Fair Use rationale for Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out (ISBN 1-59102-068-9) as provided by the uploader:
 * This book cover is a single low resolution image of a book being treated in a non-profit online encyclopedia (Wikipedia) article which is seeking to advance knowledge and learning for the benefit of the public.

 * Purpose of the use:	 			Nonprofit educational purposes
 * Nature of the publication. 			Basic non profit encyclopedic article on the book
 * Amount of the work being used: 	 Low resolution image of the book cover
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authors: ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ

title: File:LeavingIslam.jpeg


text:
William Conway (United States Navy)

William Conway (c. 1802 – November 30, 1865) was a United States Navy quartermaster born in Canden, Massachusetts. At the surrender of Pensacola Navy Yard (also known as Warrington Navy Yard) to the rebels on January 12, 1861, Confederate Lieutenant Frederick B. Kinshaw ordered Conway to lower the American flag. He replied: "I have served under that flag for forty years, and I won't do it." For his refusal, Conway was arrested and clapped in irons. Shortly afterward he was sent north, where he remained until his death at Brooklyn, New York. For his patriotic action, Conway was presented with a gold medal by citizens of California. In August 1906, the Quartermaster William Conway Monument was unveiled at Camden, a granite boulder affixed with a commemorative bronze plaque "honoring his sturdy loyalty."

Namesakes

 * Two destroyers have been named USS Conway in his honor.

title: William Conway (United States Navy)


text:
Talk:Bun B

New Album
Bun B has confirmed in interview that his album will be called "2 Trill" and not "Return of the Trill"! Remember that "Return of the Trill" was the name of UGK's latest album. They wouldn't title them the same.

IF YOU GUYS NEED ANYTHING FROM ME JUST LET ME KNOW. BLAZEJONES@ROCKETMAIL.COM LOVE ALWAYS B8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.130.172 (talk) 21:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:28, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Birthday
I have been unable to verify any claims concerning the birthday of the subject. An older version of the article had one source that no longer works. An IP has been changing that information but also using a source that doesn't actually give a birthday. Since neither source is useful I've removed the birthday altogether till such time as we have a reliable verifiable source.

If anyone has a good source then please supply it. SQGibbon (talk) 03:47, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bun B