text:
Talk:Phil Jackson

Untitled
I'm a bit confused as to why in the sidebar of his profile his time in the Continental Basketball Association isn't listed as career highlight. He did after all win a title as a coach and a coach of the year award. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.5.91 (talk) 10:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Untitled
The Phoenix Suns were not eighth seeded in the 2006 playoffs (they were 2nd). Corrected the short summary of 2006 playoffs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.210.32.22 (talk) 01:37, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Minor grammatical changes 03/15/2007
I removed the 4 sentence section titled "NBA coaching" and put the information into either the Bulls or Lakers section where appropriate. I also cleaned up some of the passive voice. There is still a lot of repetition, and if there's no objection to this minor edit, I'll do a little more serious one.

I'm not changing content, just the order/readability. Opinions? --Legomancer 22:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

This article definitely needs more cleanup in regards to grammar and readability. I don't feel comfortable doing it myself, but I can definitely see that this is very poorly written. 70.113.121.183 (talk) 00:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Someone needs to say that Phil is a piece of crap 'cause he won't take the Knicks position, he didn't give Kukoc's game enough respect, and he wants to impose the triangle offense rather than working with his players and making use of their strengths. -Amit
 * Yeah, forget about NPOV and defamation. Trekphiler 06:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

"future Hall of Famers" Payton and Malone
Even though everybody know they will be inducted, isn't speculation on future events frowned upon on this here encyclopaedia? Suggest removing. elpincha 23:39, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

12 Rings?
I don't understand how Phil Jackson has only 10 rings. Don't they still give you a ring ni the NBA if you are Injuried for an entire season?

Who can tell me whether Phil Jackson got a ring in 1970 of Knicks's champion though he was injuried for that entire season ? If he did,then he had got 12 rings by 2009.

Race
Is he white or black? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.183.86 (talk) 06:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

 * He is almost completely British on the Jackson side; Mennonite/Dutch/Swiss/German on the other side.--LeValley 19:33, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

really??? you had to ask that?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.26.217 (talk) 07:12, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Bulls vs. Lakers
How come the section on the Bulls is comparitively short when Jackson spent the majority of his career there? Mrmaroon25 01:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

156
Can anybody say the date he did it? Trekphiler 06:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

New Jersey Nets
According to this link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksph01.html), he played for the Nets from 78 to 80. Right now, the page only lists the Knicks. What's correct?

Brokeback Mountain comment
Ah come on, that stupid Brokeback Mountain comment is not worthy of being in here. That's so stupid. If you were reading a biography on him in fifty years, you wouldn't find that statement in even a 300 page book. I'm taking it out. This is the first time he's ever said anything like this. It really doesn't say anything about him. It was an isolated incident. Everybody has said something insensitive about an entire group of people before. It's really unfair. Kgj08 11:17, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The beginning paragraph is so dumb
Nobody cares about where he got his nickname "Zen master" from or how his books influence him. The beginning should clearly state that he has won three three-peats along with a record 72 games in 1996 and helped coach the greatest player in NBA history. Whoever wrote this is clearly not a fan of the NBA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.223.11.244 (talk) 04:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Bulls/Blackhawks in 1992
I try to make mention that in 1992, both the Bulls and the Blackhawks reached their respective league's finals that year. Phil Jackson was right about Mike Keenan and his experiences then helping him again when the New York Rangers won the Stanley Cup in 1994, as that win happened when the New York Knicks were in their finals. -- SNIyer12, (talk) 03:30, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still not convinced this should stay. Just because Jackson mentioned Mike Keenan in some NY TV special doesn't mean we have to talk about hockey in this article. Zagalejo^^^ 03:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Phil Jackson and Mike Keenan knew each other when both of them were coaches in Chicago. Jackson was brought in as an expert in that NY TV special to help New Yorkers understand what it's like when both NBA and NHL teams from one city reach their respective league's finals in the same year. He and Keenan experienced it in Chicago in 1992 and he knew that Keenan experienced it again in New York two years later. He also said that there were many parallels between the two dramas. In 1992, Keenan remembers that there were Bulls players at Blackhawks finals games and Blackhawks players at Bulls games. He saw it again in 1994, Knicks players were at Rangers finals games and Rangers players were at Knicks finals games. This is one reason why Jackson came on that NY TV special as an expert. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 23:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you possibly quote what he said? (Here, I mean. Not in the article.) I probably have no way of accessing a copy of that tv special, so I can't evaluate whether he said anything especially interesting or insightful. Zagalejo^^^ 21:12, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's the quote by Jackson: "The Rangers' first Stanley Cup win in 54 years is a great part of a great chapter in New York City sports history because the Knicks were in their finals at the same time and the coach of the Rangers, Mike Keenan, knows about both NBA and NHL teams from one city reaching their respective league's finals in the same year. In 1992, during the Bulls' first three-peat, as I coached the Bulls to their second straight championship, Keenan coached the Blackhawks to the Stanley Cup Finals. I remember that Blackhawks players were at our Finals games and some of our players were at Blackhawks finals games. Keenan's experiences in Chicago in 1992 helped him a lot in 1994 when the Knicks reached their finals as his Rangers were in the Stanley Cup Finals. In addition, he was able to draw a lot of parallels between the two dramas." -- SNIyer12, (talk), 00:00 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Er, really? That doesn't sound like natural human speech. In fact, it's almost exactly the same as the prose you keep trying to add into articles. Do you have a video link or something? Zagalejo^^^ 05:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Greatest coach in NBA?
Saying one coach is considered the greatest coach in the NBA is an opinion. Many people also consider Phil Jackson the most overrated coach in the NBA. I removed both statements because neither one can be written as 100% fact. The only fact is that there are groups of people that believe both sides. Neither should be included in this post.

 * Please re-read the sentence carefully next time. --Yesterday young (talk) 09:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

You should re-read the sentence carefully. It said he is widely considered the greatest, I changed it to widely considered the most overrated. Both statements are opinions that can not be backed up by fact. I have changed it to exclude both statements. Both could be true depending on which side of the arguement the reader falls on. I have taken out the debateable part. If one side of the arguement isn't included then neither should the other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by --67.172.145.218 (talk) 22:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)67.172.145.218 (talk) 21:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

My information is true and verifiable information that is being removed. My verifiable information meerly controdicts the other sides information so I removed them both. I solved the debate by taking down both. The most recent edits I made have nothing of him being considered great or considered overrated. It is fact that some consider him great, but it is also fact that many consider him overrated. Does that make either of us more correct? Probably not, so why is my most recent contribution unacceptable to you? I removed the debatable portion, problem solved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by --67.172.145.218 (talk) 22:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)67.172.145.218 (talk) 21:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

There is such a thing as general consensus and it can be verified by things like polls. The first sentence above which reads "saying one coach is considered the greatest coach in the NBA is an opinion" is false. The statement in question is a statement about peoples' opinions but peoples' opinions are measurable things. That being said, in briefly trying to find a relevant poll I haven't and the statements about how he is regarded by others generally should remain out until somebody can find a good source on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.202.132 (talk) 05:31, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Found one Poll showing him up somehting like 75-25. Adding to article references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atari2 (talk • contribs) 04:51, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, the 50th anniversary poll rominated him. And that was back in 96-97, before his second and third three-peats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atari2 (talk • contribs) 04:54, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Just a suggestion– "most successful" rather than "one of the greatest." Also, mention highest regular season winning percentage (.705) and most playoff victories (225) in lede.  Source .  Bms4880 (talk) 13:55, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

"Won-title"
Moderators: I'm the user deleting (you're lately defining the act as vandalising) the "won-title" from 2008-2009 championship. It was not an act of vandalism as the modifications concerning "title-won" was currently being updated before the end of the NBA Finals Series. The 5th game was not over yet and after the end I haven't updated anymore as the game was over. If you're going to moderate it, please consider removing also false expressions.

Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.103.180.135 (talk) 02:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, your edits were perfectly justified. I'm sorry you were mistreated. I've removed the tags left on your talk page, since you didn't deserve them. Zagalejo^^^ 08:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

season? 98 - 99
hello, i am curious, that after all the details given about the incredible person that is phil jackson, the saison 1998-99 is missing.... can somebody correct that? if he took a year vacation, etc.... it would show to be more human in me eyes..... thanks...

Apology
I just want to apologize to Phil Jackson.

I made a comment that his Zen philosophy does not work. I was wrong. Whatever he has in his basketball philosophy is working. Congratulations to the Lakers. I think Phil will go down as one of the best coaches of all time. I just wish he would consider being the GM of the Knicks. I do have a sense of humor.

Again, Great job, Phil Jackson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.74.110.171 (talk) 07:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't a blog. I doubt he actually cares about what you say or not say, especially on Wikipedia.  And this isn't a WP:NOTAFORUM to discuss your opinion of Phil Jackson.  Go to ESPN, and you can spend all day long chatting with other sports nuts.  OK?   Orange Marlin  Talk• Contributions 02:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Phil Jackson's impending or not impending retirement
When and if Jackson announces his retirement officially, and right now there is nothing but hints, clues, commentary, and rumors, I'm sure we can state he has retired. See WP:BLP. Thanks. Orange Marlin Talk• Contributions 02:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Retired
Jackson is retired. See, e.g., http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-25/sports/ct-spt-0526-bulls-chicago-20130526_1_eleven-rings-jeanie-buss-phil-jackson.

Even the stories speculating that he may be interested in returning to the NBA describe his current status as retired. See, e.g., http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9182468/phil-jackson-itching-return-nbacoach-executive-sources-say (Jackson may "simply stay retired" if he's not interested in any of the job opportunities that come his way).

Until he accepts another job or states publicly that he is looking for work, he is retired. Terence7 (talk) 03:50, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No dude. In fact, that he is NOT coaching does not equate with being retired. Even the articles that have been posted equivocate. One is a blog, which is not an acceptable source, even if it is on the Sports Illustrated site and still hesitates by saying that his return has been rumored. The other waivers on that by virtue of its very title "Phil Jackson is Retired...Maybe." It's a lot more accurate to say that he is not currently coaching. Otherwise, you guys are guilty of jumping the gun and age discrimination because after all, look at how old he is, huh?? But in any case, he has also said he wants to return to the NBA: see http://tracking.si.com/2013/04/17/phil-jackson-wants-to-return-to-nba/, so that does not mean he's retired. He's just not coaching at the moment. Lizabetha (talk) 20:01, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Most sources call him retired. By most accounts, he is retired from coaching, but would entertain an exec position.—Bagumba (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 16 external links on Phil Jackson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070106124035/http://www.sae.net/index.asp?r=fraternity&sr=facts&ssr=facts to http://www.sae.net/index.asp?r=fraternity&sr=facts&ssr=facts
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080212173724/http://www.basketball.ca/en/hm/inside.php?sid=87&id=1161&PHPSESSID=1f02554bda44c6de62046f6a3f345ec6 to http://www.basketball.ca/en/hm/inside.php?sid=87&id=1161&PHPSESSID=1f02554bda44c6de62046f6a3f345ec6
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6066049
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://tracking.si.com/2013/04/28/phil-jackson-prostate-cancer/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/11/sports/la-sp-heisler-lakers-20110512
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-kupchak-20121114,0,1350996,full.story
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8628871/mitch-kupchak-los-angeles-lakers-explains-decision-hire-mike-dantoni
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-lakers-hire-mike-dantoni-20121112,0,7850509.story?track=rss
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/sports/the-lakers-change-direction-and-hire-mike-dantoni-as-coach.html?ref=sports&_r=0
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-lakers-coach-jackson-20121113,0,2707499,full.story
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ocregister.com/sports/lakers-377569-jackson-antoni.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10607795/phil-jackson-deal-new-york-knicks-finalized
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140318210300/http://knicksnow.com/posts/5430/phil-jackson-named-president-of-new-york-knicks to http://knicksnow.com/posts/5430/phil-jackson-named-president-of-new-york-knicks
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/03/18/zen-era-begins-phil-jackson-set-for-knicks-introduction-at-msg/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150721223823/http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/players/sl_kristaps_porzingis/ to http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2015/players/sl_kristaps_porzingis/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100503043252/http://asama.org/awards-of-sport/medallion-series/coaching-male/ to http://www.asama.org/awards-of-sport/medallion-series/coaching-male/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:06, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

"Coach Jackson" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coach_Jackson&redirect=no Coach Jackson] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:10, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Phil Jackson


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Five Soft Drink Monsters

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 03:25, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Five Soft Drink Monsters
Not notable. Google shows numerous hits which appear to be the author/publisher's own press releases. Factoring those out yields about 20 hits. This appears to be yet another attempt in user's (Andrew Lin?) "Stop Drinking Soda" campaign. Xcali 23:55, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. As mentioned, only hits on Google are press releases of this e-book. Cannot find any other third party evidence or credible stores that sell this material to establish notability. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:09, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Dissolve in a giant vat of Mountain Dew. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  01:33, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete stupidity. Ben-w 17:30, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable, self-promoting Shoaler 17:42, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. More Andrew Lincruft.  I've blocked him and his two known sock puppets for repeatedly recreating his anti-soda articles.  RickK 19:29, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ugh, not again. --Kiand 21:03, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete & Ban Its bad that this person has this much free time Joey.dale 03:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment What?!?! I thought this was a prefectly good article describing a book a friend of mine wrote and published. — (Unsigned comment by 68.170.0.238.)
 * It's not so much the article as the topic of the article. The editors above feel that this topic is not notable enough (at least at this time) to be included in Wikipedia. — Knowledge Seeker দ 09:03, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * KEEP!!! — (Unsigned comment by 68.170.0.238.)
 * [I removed the font tags from your comment. Using a font size of ten will not increase the weight of your vote, but it makes the page harder to read. — Knowledge Seeker দ 09:03, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)]
 * KEEP!!! 128.2.247.100 17:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Fixed formatting. drini ☎ 17:26, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Note that this voting user appears to be the another instance of the same person who wrote the article. He just began editing today, adding similar articles.  --Xcali 19:15, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * If Xcali is correct (which is almost certainly the case), then the above anon's vote is the second by the article's creator in this Vfd, the other being 68.170.0.238. See Requests for comment/68.170.0.238 -  Jersyko    talk   22:19, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete drini ☎ 17:26, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, for non-notability and just to annoy our little anonymous troll ;) Aecis 10:26, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text: Talk:Der Corregidor

title: Talk:Der Corregidor


text:
Category talk:English folklore

comments from 2005
Is there a way I can refer to Category:Scottish folklore as a link in the introductory sentence, without making this a sub-category of Scottish folklore as a side effect? — B.Bryant 23:55, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

English Folklaw - Best in the World, Eddie.--Crestville 23:32, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

=Cornish Folklore=

I think that Cornish Folklore articles shouldn't really be in the English Folklore category for two reasons:

Most folklorists consider Cornish traditions separate from English traditions, this is not a British folklore category but an English one.
 * Cornwall though 'usually' considered part of England has it's own distinct culture and thus folklore. Cornish folklore is more akin to Welsh and Irish...etc.. folk traditions than to English folk traditions.

Any opinions? Sigurd Dragon Slayer
 * Again though considered to be from a part of England, the Cornish people are of their own ethnic group and thus their folklore should be treated as an appendage of their ethnicity.

Robin Hood category paradox?
Robin Hood→Robin Hood figures→Fictional gentleman theives→Robin Hood? The cycle goes on like that. Should someone fix that? Sikovin (talk) 20:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Category talk:English folklore


text:
Talk:Der Corregidor/to do

I need to add a synopsis. Too lazy to do it just now. Microtonal 23:56, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Der Corregidor/to do


text:
Talk:Lotus Sutra

Japanese readings
According to the Japanese dictionaries I checked, hokekyō is preferred to hokkekyō, and I changed the article accordingly.

 * Indeed, you are right. I just checked about 10 国語 dictionaries, and they all give hokkekyō as a secondary reading. Thanks for the correction. Jim_Lockhart 01:52, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Nam myoho renge kyo
Okay disclaimer: I am a member of soka gakkai, a form of nichiren buddhism, so hope I'm being objective with respect to other buddhism's point of view: but just wanted to say: in the paragraph:

"The Lotus Sutra also often alludes to a special teaching that supersedes everything else that the Buddha has taught, but the Sutra never actually says what that teaching is. This is said to be in keeping with the general Mahayana Buddhist view that the highest teaching cannot be expressed in words. This same point is also often cited by critics of Lotus Sutra."

In certainly all the Nichiren and probably in some form in tendai sects, this highest teaching *can* be said in words and it's Nam Myoho Renge Kyo - and I'd link that to the page on this, because although you might not think this is the highest teaching, the fact is nichiren buddhists believe this, and it's an important thing to put down in the article. The wikipedia nam-myoho-renge-kyo page doesn't actually say much about this so another place to get references for this are the background articles to these goshos: http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/bk_EssenceJuryoChapter.htm http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/bk_SelectionTime.htm and the opening of the eyes http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/OpeningEyesPart1.htm - where he goes in depth into the chapter and what exactly is hidden there. The links here link in turn to a translation of the gosho zenshu - Nichiren's letters and treatises. --skoria at gmail.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo could be somewhat translated as 'The Devotion of oneself to the Mystic Law of Lotus Sutra', thus this mantra could not be considered the teaching itself. On the Nichiren's writings, he states that repeating this mantra will expose the person to the mystic law. I'm not discussing the belief of each one, just trying to be objective based on facts and words. Although I would not place that the teaching can be said in words as a fact, I would point out what skoria wrote in a section like 'Interpretations', once I think is valid to show how each school of Buddhism can interpret the same Sutra. Best Regards. -- Clke2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clke2009 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Included in the more ancient Āgamas or not?
Currently the article reads "Therefore, it is probably not included in the more ancient Āgamas of Mahayana Buddhism, nor in the Sutta Pitaka of the Theravada Buddhists". Could somebody clarify: is the Sutra or is it not thus included? Martin Rundkvist (talk) 15:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Traces of Prakrit in Chinese Translations
Oh dear, here we go again with clever Mr Mitsube. It has been accepted for quite a number of years now that almost ALL the early Chinese translations show signs of under-lying Prakrit -- see Coblin's work on Han Dynasty phonology, for example. The methodology is rather abstruse, so I fear it might be beyond your intellectual capabilities, but I can outline it for you if you want. As for the Lotus Sutra in particular, get hold of the work by Prof Seishi Karashima (he is the leading expert in this area) and his group. You might like to download his two lexicons on the Chinese terminology of early Lotus Sutra translations in Chinese from IRIABS and go through themcarefully yourself. Oh, I forgot ~ you can't read Chinese or Sanskrit. What a pity !-- अनाम गुमनाम  17:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Please stop insulting me. You are welcome to add sourced content. Mitsube (talk) 21:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

 * You should perhaps look to your own insulting attitude to other contributors. Then they might treat you with a bit of respect.  Your comments that it is extremely unlikely that Chinese translations might reflect their underlying sources has been questioned for decades ~ I believe Shackleton Bailey was mentioned this possibility back in 1946 in his article BSOAS on Gandhari. Believe me, there is nothing odd about this suggestion.  First, this can be determined by the forms in which Indic names are transcribed into Chinese that reflect Prakrit phonology.  Secondly, this can be determined when early Chinese translations have unexpected variants, such as in Dharmaraksa's translation of the Lotus Sutra which can only be explained by an underlying Prakrit. For example, there is a flower called the "sapta-parni" which literally means "seven-petalled", but it can be found translated into Chinese as "one hundred-petalled".  So how does this come about ?  Simple, because Prakrit for "seven" is "satta" and "sata" is the word for one hundred. One further refines this by the knowledge that some Prakrits such as Gandhari simplify geminated consonants, so in Gandhari the words for "seven" and "one hundred" are both indistinguishably "sata".  But this is all explained in the article I mentioned as a reference.  Take the trouble to  find it on in the internet, read it and stop your insulting attitude to other people when their knowledge obviously exceeds yours.  And that last is intended as a statement of fact.-- अनाम गुमनाम  23:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Please give the quote from your source that supports the statement you added. Mitsube (talk) 23:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

 * It's the whole article. Shall I post that ? OK, no problem. Do you know who Daniel Boucher is ?  He takes it for granted that the reader knows that Prakrit underlies the majority of the early Chinese translations.  Why are you so incredibly stubborn ?  READ THE ARTICLE YOURSELF and you will see what I am talking about.-- अनाम गुमनाम  23:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

 * From WP:V: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material." So please give the quote here. Mitsube (talk)

Hello, Mitsube is very capable to edit material in this text. Anam however keeps deleting sourced material and trying to put a bias in various articles.Greetings, Sacca 08:19, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 * User Sacca: You seem a bit delusional ~ what do you mean I keep deleting sourced material.  I deleted ONE passage recently in another article and explained my reasons.  Try and get your facts right or are you a glove puppet type of Mitsube clone ?-- अनाम गुमनाम  00:40, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Please give specific in-line citations for your new additions. Mitsube (talk) 02:05, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 * What are "in-line citations", please ?-- अनाम गुमनाम  00:27, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Any chance of a source, citation, or NPOV for...?
Hey, the headline could apply to more things than one, but please above all else could we possibly get a source on the supposed date of origin assigned to the supposed Sanskrit original?

How could this have possibly sat at the top of this article without being challenged or deleted? You can't just assign a century to a text with no source and no rationale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.74.197.169 (talk) 09:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh the irony of such a statement being left unsigned! Yes please someone provide a cite AND sign any comments here with four tildes please! Tumacama (talk) 16:30, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Boy Buddha emerging from lotus
This image was just added as a thumbnail. Is it related to the contents of the Lotus Sutra? It looks more like a child being born from a lotus, per the Sukhavativyuha Sutra, rather than the Lotus Sutra... Any info would be appreciated. Tengu800 02:08, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

 * Born by Transformation from Lotus Flowers, is one of the four forms of birth. A footnote in Nichiren's writings by SGI says:

"'Born by transformation [from Lotus Flowers]' refers to one of the four forms of birth. Due to their karma, beings so born are said, upon the end of their previous lifetime, to appear suddenly in this fashion without the help of parents or other intermediary agency."

I think this is how beings are supposedly born in a Pure Land. - Steve (talk) 01:21, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

 * [...] "if [they are born] in the presence of a buddha, they will be born spontaneously in a lotus flower.” pp. 181-182 (also p. 285) in: The Lotus Sūtra translated by Tsugunari Kubo and Akira Yuyama (2009)  JimRenge (talk) 14:18, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Sanskrit version of Lotus Sutra
There should be a section on the Sanskrit version of Lotus Sutra. Was it discovered in Nepal? Komitsuki (talk) 14:33, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Several manuscripts and MS-fragments have been found (Nepal, Gilgit, central asia, Tibet). Please see: Jamieson, R.C. (2002). Introduction to the Sanskrit Lotus Sutra Manuscripts, Journal of Oriental Studies 12 (6): 165–173.

(last of the external links in the LS-article) and Jonathan A. Silk, The Place of the Lotus Sutra in Indian Buddhism Best regards JimRenge (talk) 14:56, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I also found a record that there is a full Sanskrit manuscript of Lotus Sutra in Nepal.  "The recently published tenth in the series contains an original Sanskrit Lotus Sutra text found in Nepal dating back to 1064 or 1065 CE. This text was one of the sources used in the compilation of the influential Kern-Nanjio edition of the Lotus Sutra from 1908-12, and it is thus a key source for research into the Lotus Sutra. [Soka Gakkai]" Hope this interests anyone. Komitsuki (talk) 16:14, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

According to Lopez the Burnouf translation, the first to appear in the West, was based on Sanskrit documents. BrandenburgG (talk) 04:06, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Chinese versions seem mixed up
Text reads about the Kumārajīva translation: >> The Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Dharma, in eight volumes and twenty eight chapters But according to the front page of the Taisho T262 (http://tripitaka.cbeta.org/T09n0262) it has seven scrolls. Something is wrong here.

Also, I don't see any numbered references or links to primary Chinese sources in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexamies (talk • contribs) 02:22, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Notes on Chapter 3 and the 3 vehicles
I recently added, specifically by name, the Three Vehicles in Ch. 3 summary: A Parable "The Buddha teaches a parable in which a father uses the promise of various toy carts to get his children out of a burning house, once they are outside, he gives them all one large cart to travel in instead. This symbolizes how the Buddha uses the Three Vehicles: Arhatship, Pratyekabuddhahood and Samyaksambuddhahood,..." I found this naming to be necessary, because the linked "Three Vehicles" leads to en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Yana_%28Buddhism%29#The_three_carts_of_expedient_means:_the_parable_of_the_burning_house which only names the Three Vehicles somewhat tangentially towards the end. If someone can provide a more comprehensive or informative link please do.Tumacama (talk) 16:27, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yana_%28Buddhism%29#The_three_carts_of_expedient_means:_the_parable_of_the_burning_house

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 one external links on Lotus Sutra. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://digitalcommons.mcmaster.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2403&context=opendissertations
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/jiabs/article/viewFile/8551/2458
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/nfile/2862
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/DogenStudies/The_Lotus_Sutra_as_a_Source.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/Publications/BPPB/pdf/BPPB-10.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://iop.or.jp/Documents/0111/silk.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://iriab.soka.ac.jp/orc/pdf/ARIRIAB-02.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 00:12, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Propagation/transmission
This is such a wonderful and balanced article. Thanks to all of the editors.

I am currently reading Tanabe's The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture. Shioiri Ryodo's chapter in it emphasizes how much content in the Lotus Sutra is centered on its own propagation/transmission. I think this should be mentioned in the WP article, not sure where. Any thoughts? BrandenburgG (talk) 19:22, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Perhaps a sentence in one of the "propagation chapters"; I assume outline/ch 10 might be a good candidate. A more detailed presentation might fit into a "Practice" section. JimRenge (talk) 23:11, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Done. Please review and comment.BrandenburgG (talk) 14:16, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Fits nicely into ch 10, thanks for keeping it compact! I have moved the note to the notes section. JimRenge (talk) 15:02, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Art and Poetry
An enormous treasury of art and poetry was inspired by the LS. Does this merit a subsection (maybe 5.3, under Impact)? The Tanabe source has a lot of comments on this topic. I would be interested in editors' thoughts on this. BrandenburgG (talk) 14:21, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Good idea, this is in fact missing. JimRenge (talk) 15:02, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Any other thoughts or objections? If not I will start working on this.
 * BrandenburgG (talk) 21:06, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

I put in a short section on this topic. Please share with me any feedback you may have. There's a lot of sources for this, what I have is just a sample. BrandenburgG (talk) 20:35, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * BrandenburgG, this section should be expanded. Influence on Asian culture may also include theater, folk tales etc. Perhaps some more notable examples could be included. JimRenge (talk) 13:04, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Good point and I will work on it. It's very busy at work so as soon I come up for air.BrandenburgG (talk) 16:07, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Modern commentary
I would like to suggest that we add a section on modern commentary. Otherwise the article looks like Lotus Sutra commentary and scholarship died centuries ago. In fact tremendous contributions have been made by people such as Burnouf, Niwano, Ikeda, etc. BrandenburgG (talk) 04:01, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

 * I think it might be easy to add text about Burnouf´s contributions in the "Translations into Western languages" section using Yuyama (2000) as a secondary source. I wonder if independent reviews or other secondary sources exist to verify a section on modern sectarian interpretations (Nikkyo Niwano, Daisaku Ikeda, Hsuan Hua and Thich Nhat Hanh). JimRenge (talk) 23:22, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Good point. Let me check around. BrandenburgG (talk) 15:07, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, if there are modern interpretations I would like to see them. This article is rather obscure and one may conclude from it that the sutra is interesting intellectually, but surely there are modern religions using it? --JackBnimble10 (talk) 17:36, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for my long MIA...busy season at work. I will try to put something up to start this off.BrandenburgG (talk) 16:03, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Fellow editors, I placed a first draft for this section in my Sandbox. I would appreciate feedback before I place it in the article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrandenburgG/sandbox

 * Just one more request. I would love to get feedback on my proposed additions to the article. My goal is to post it to the LS article this week but would love to get it vetted first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrandenburgG/sandbox#Modern_Scholarship_and_Application BrandenburgG (talk) 12:06, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your your draft. I will write a comment within the next 24 hours. JimRenge (talk) 13:17, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Comment

1) Eugene Burnouf's's 1844 commentary on the Lotus Sutra, "Introduction a l'histoire du Buddhisme indien," marks the start of modern academic scholarship of Buddhism in the West. His translation of the Lotus Sutra, "Le Lotus de la bonne loi" was published posthumously in 1852. Prior to publication, a chapter from the translations was included in the 1844 journal The Dial, a publication of the New England transcendentalists, translated from French to Engish by Elizabeth Palmer Peabody. A second translation was completed by Kern and Nanjo in 1884.

2) Western interest in the Lotus Sutra waned in the latter 19th century as Indo-centric scholars focused on Pali and Sanskrit Hinayana texts. Christian missionaries in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, predominantly in China, became interested in Kumārajīva's translation of the Lotus Sutra into Chinese. These scholars attempted to draw parallels between the Old and New Testaments to earlier Hinayana sutras and the Lotus Sutra. Abbreviated and "cristo-centric" translations were published by Richard and Soothill.

3) In the post World War II scholarly interest in Japanese Buddhism and its Chinese origins, as well as archeological research in Dunhuang, inspired renewed focus on the Lotus Sutra from East Asian perspectives. This phenomenon led to the first full translation of Kumarajiva by Leon Hurvitz in 1976. Whereas the Hurvitz work was independent scholarship, other modern translations were sponsored by Buddhist groups: Kato Bunno (1975, Nichiren-shu/Rissho-kosei-kai), Murano Senchu (1974, Nichiren-shu), Burton Watson (1993, Soka Gakkai), and the Buddhist Text Translation Society (Xuanhua).

4) According to Shields "modern(ist) interpretations" of the Lotus Sutra begin with the early 20th century nationalist applications of the Lotus Sutra by Chigaku Tanaka, Nissho Honda, Seno'o, and Nisshō Inoue.

5) After World War II various Buddhist organizations shared their interpretations of the Lotus Sutra through publications, symposia, and exhibits. Etai Yamada, the 253rd head priest of the Tendai denomination conducted ecumenical dialogues with religious leaders around the world based on his interpretation of the Lotus Sutra which culminated in a 1987 summit. He also used the Lotus Sutra to move his sect from a "temple Buddhism" perspective to one based on social engagement. Josei Toda began his reconstruction of the Soka Gakkai after the war with a series of lectures on the Lotus Sutra. Daisaku Ikeda wrote a six-volume dialogue called "The Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra.". The Soka Gakkai-affiliated Institute of Oriental Philosophy has sponsored colloquia and exhibitions about the Lotus Sutra.The Risshō Kōsei Kai has held academic conferences about the Lotus Sutra and the collected papers are often published.

1) The first sentence appears to be misleading because "Introduction a l'histoire du Buddhisme indien," is an introduction to the history of Buddhism in India (the LS is part of the content, see https://archive.org/details/MN41423ucmf_0 p. 641).  I propose to change the sentence to: "Eugene Burnouf's's 1844 "Introduction a l'histoire du Buddhisme indien," marks the start of modern academic scholarship of Buddhism in the West." Nanjo is not named as an author of the English translation by Kern.
 * Done (in Sandbox)

2) "Hinayana texts": perhaps Nikaya texts is more neutral.
 * Done

3) ok. (Hurvitz was Professor at a catholic University if I remember correctly. The first edition of the German translation was sponsored by the catholic church/Cardinal Ratzinger!)

4) ok, (I did not have the time to read the source)

5) "and the collected papers are often published." remove, this is not worth mentioning in an encyclopedia. I would remove the Lokesh Chandra source because this is a highly promotional piece. The whole section appears to be incomplete. We should avoid to give undue weight to Soka Gakkai. I think this part might fit into the "Buddhism in Japan" (or The Lotus Sutra in Japan?) section.
 * I will tighten up, @JimRenge. I think this paragraph is important, however, or the article lapses into "classical" study of text.  SG should not be overemphasized or underestimated.  Same is true for RKK and Tendai.  I disagree with you about the collected papers of the RKK.  The accumulated papers are a treasure of LS research.  I will try to find appropriate scholarship to document.BrandenburgG (talk) 19:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

1-4 might fit into the "Translations into Western languages" (or rename: "Western scholarship") section. Several Sources are freely available and need to be supplemented by url´s. Is the Fatherree a PhD thesis? Is it available as a pdf? JimRenge (talk) 11:55, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Thank you @JimRenge for the detailed feedback, I know your plate is very full. I will work on incorporating your suggestions over the weekend.  Since this is a major addition to the article I would prefer to vet it one more time on the Talk Page before floating it in the article itself. It seems to me that the Tendai and two Nichiren schools (SG and RKK) are extremely active in pushing the boundaries of the LS in contemporary society.  This is highly evident in their promotional materials which I know are primary sources. What I need to find are scholarly sources that state this explicitly. Yes, Fatherree is a dissertation that was once openly available on Google Books but now seems closed--maybe I sabotaged it by clicking on it too many times.BrandenburgG (talk) 12:43, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks to @JimRenge for the feedback. Here is the updated proposal for the new section. I would appreciate any comments. Let me keep this in the Talk page for a few days before posting it into the article. BrandenburgG (talk) 19:08, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Modernist Scholarship and Internationalization
I went ahead and posted my proposed addition. I am very open to comments on this new section and would happily engage with fellow editors to improve it. BrandenburgG (talk) 12:53, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I removed the proposal draft that was here. It was posted into the article in toto already so no need for it to take up real estate here.  Also the citations were taking so much space at the bottom of the Talk page.BrandenburgG (talk) 11:16, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

LS and the Arts
I slightly expanded this section with a couple of sources about the influence of the LS on Japanese Buddhist poetry. I'd like to expand this section to include sources from all the art genres, perhaps a paragraph for each genre. Help appreciated!BrandenburgG (talk) 11:12, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I have added a few sources. A lot more work to do here.  Although it's not clear yet, I envision an introductory paragraph followed by separate paragraphs for LS influence on literature, physical arts, and performing arts. BrandenburgG (talk) 13:29, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, the idea that Borobodur was inspired by the Lotus Sutra may be a WP:Fringe theory (please see Julie Gifford, Buddhist Practice and Visual Culture: The Visual Rhetoric of Borobudur, pp. 23 ff). We better focus on examples that are clearly related to the LS. JimRenge (talk) 21:18, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Thank you, @JimRenge. I went ahead and created the sub-sub-sub heading structure I proposed above. There are entries so far in art, poetry, and folklore. I (and hopefully other editors) can over time further populate these headings. I also want to add a heading for "Theater and music."  I learned from Dykstra that Noh theater adopted at least one of the  "Miraculous tales of the Lotus sutra from ancient Japan" as a theme. BrandenburgG (talk) 10:27, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I assume Dykstra mentions the noh drama "Ama". Abe Ryuchi has published a detailed description: Ryuchi, Abe (2015), Revisiting the Dragon Princess: Her Role in Medieval Engi Stories and Their Implications in Reading the Lotus Sutra, Japanese Journal of Religious Studies 42 (1), 45-50. JimRenge (talk) 11:53, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Thank you so much, @JimRenge. The Abe article is FANTASTIC. It answers so many of the questions I have had.  I'm not quite finished with it yet and today's a busy day.  I plan on finishing it and incorporating into article.  Also, I think I need to expand the lead of this subsection to include, as Abe mentions, " textual, performative, and visual genres, and Buddhist scriptural materials." In terms of art this should include frontpieces and text illustrations.BrandenburgG (talk) 13:39, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Gyan Publishers
@JimRenge, I think you might've been too hasty to remove the source from this publisher. It's a house based in India but it seems to be reputable...and not a self-publishing outfit. (http://www.gyanbooks.com/index.php?p=aboutus&l=0).

The scholar also appears to be creditable. (http://www.icsin.org/faculty/show/14) Let's reconsider! BrandenburgG (talk) 18:25, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreliable_sources/Books_that_plagiarize_Wikipedia, "Books published by Gyan Publishing / Isha Books / Kalpaz are not WP:RS in general. (...) Their books (...) are known to have plagiarized content from Wikipedia". We should avoid sources "that sound reliable but do not have the reputation for fact-checking and accuracy that WP:RS requires."(WP:QUESTIONABLE]) JimRenge (talk) 15:43, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Wow. Thank you!BrandenburgG (talk) 01:34, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Why is the opinion of Western scholars quoted?
At the very onset, it says "According to Paul Williams, "For many East Asian Buddhists since early times the Lotus Sutra contains the final teaching of the Buddha, complete and sufficient for salvation." Why exactly do we need the opinion of a non-Buddhist Western scholar to tell us this? Or is it only true if a foreigner says it but if a native practicing Buddhist says it then it has no weight? It is only valid if a Westerner says so otherwise not.

I am pretty tired of this view point and I am a Westerner but not a Buddhist. I want to hear what the local tradition thinks not some idiotic professor who never practiced the tradition he is commenting on.

Western academics are NOT the last word on the matter. If I want to read idiocy regarding something I am an expert at all I need do is read what some scholar wrote about it.

So I say get more opinions of those in the tradition.49.207.61.24 (talk) 07:58, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * , I did not contribute to this article, but from what I can gather, at least four Japanese scholars are cited in the article. But feel free to add more scholarly content from Asians.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 12:15, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * : I will attempt to answer your question "why?" in a general sense (not necessarily specific to Paul Williams):
 * Since this the English-language Wikipedia, most editors are English L1 speakers; English-language texts (often written by Westerners) are the easiest to use and verify.
 * Wikipedia values sources that are independent of the subject matter (see WP:IS). A scholar outside the tradition would likely be more independent than a practitioner of the tradition.
 * Not all sources have to be independent, but the article should include some. — Theodore Kloba (☎) 16:38, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * See also WP:RNPOV. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  17:06, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * and others, perhaps it is would be good to collect all the discussion that has taken place about the topic of what role primary sources should have in articles on Buddhism (the great scholar vs. teacher debate). I believe that some of these discussions have been taken up all the way to noticeboards and policy proposal discussion pages, and I believe this has led some experienced editors from outside the Buddhist articles community to give their conclusive opinion on it. We could perhaps list those on the Buddhism WikiProject, so that we do not need to start this endless debate again and again, or a least, so that we can refer to the Buddhism Wikiproject.

 * I have failed to find these discussion, but I am sure they are out there. Could you be of help, Joshua?--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 20:50, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Basically, WP:RNPOV. But see Talk:Four Noble Truths, for an endless "discussion" on this topic (the non-ending participant got blocked, in the end). Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  03:58, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I am aware of WP:RNPOV and the discussion you are referring to. (I was involved at the end, remember? It continued on the Buddhsim Wikiproject page and later went to a noticeboard, after which I didn't follow through.) But there was also a Wikipedia-wide discussion about whether Buddhist teachers are secondary sources. This discussion was eventually dismissed as not producing enough evidence for changing existing policy, but the admin assessing gave a number of reasons for the dismissal, which I think are relevant to link to in discussions like this. The admin was not partisan.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 10:36, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I don't remember. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  11:03, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , I found it and have listed all of them here.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 11:16, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Oh my, yes, that discussion. Thier primary was, I think, to give primacy to insider-sources – that is, the insider-sources of their preference. Sort of pov-pushing, I think, without them being aware of it. But that's my opinion. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  12:54, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Yes, and the issue is being brought up again above, and if you remember, a number of weeks ago, over here as well. It's ubiquitous, and we should do something about it. It is a widespread misunderstanding amongst editors for Buddhism articles. Ping . --Farang Rak Tham (talk) 16:39, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

 * It's not only religious articles; look at Indo-Aryan migrationn theory, and the repeated attempts to rewrite history. It's got to do, I suppose, with identity, and the clash with western rationalism. I'm afraid we'll have to discuss this again and again and again. But I like your intention; it's good. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  03:51, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

 * We could write a policy clarification for articles part of the Buddhism WikiProject, and place it on the project.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 12:32, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , coming back to this discussion, are you aware of any policy like Manual of Style/Islam-related articles ever been written about Buddhist articles?--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 12:12, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Nope.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   20:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Then the next question is probably not going to surprise you: would you like to work together to write a page like that?--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 22:59, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * A MOS:Religion may be a better idea; I see no need to have specific MOS for specific religions. A MOS:Religion would also result in much broader input from wp editors. JimRenge (talk) 23:16, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I think there are a number of Buddhism-specific problems, just like Manual of Style/Islam-related articles deals with Islam-specific problems. But for practical purposes, we could start with MOS:Religion.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 23:38, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Pffff... What would you like to include there? We've already got WP:RNPOV, which answers the repetitious problems with editors with a pov-problem. An alternative answer to such editors could be: 'reflecting on multiple points of view helps you to get a grip on a topic', as in some doctrinal issues within Tibetan Buddhism.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   04:19, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I do not propose to write a new policy proposal, just a page that explains how WP policy applies to articles on Buddhism. I think it can avoid disputes and save time in the long run, and .--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 09:00, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, just give it a try.  Joshua Jonathan   -  Let's talk!   12:44, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, avoiding unnecessary disputes and time sinks is a good argument. JimRenge (talk) 00:24, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, but I cannot do this by myself. I have never involved myself with policy before. , can you give me a few pointers how to start a policy page? Thanks. I would also like your input on whether you think this section contains any misinterpretations of Wikipedia policy.--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 00:39, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no idea about the procedure. I recommend to ask this at the Help desk, I assume you can save time asking the experts. Your second question is complex; I appreciate that you are trying hard to follow wp policies. This talk page is not ideal to discuss the details or a draft. JimRenge (talk) 02:25, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Try my talk page, .--Farang Rak Tham (talk) 08:10, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Contemporary significance of the LS
I would love to see a section on the contemporary significance of the LS. I suggest that we look toward recent scholarship on this matter. There is the Daniel Lopez book from a few years ago. Also articles (sample) published by the Institute for Oriental Philosophy. RKK sponsors annual academic international LS seminars. I am sure there must be many more sources.

Any thoughts? BrandenburgG (talk) 16:40, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Textual history/Formation misleading
Perhaps mistranslated? "...1-9 and 17 were probably created in the 1st century BCE" In fact all sutras were transmitted by Shakyamuni Buddha around 500BC. At the conference after Buddha's death, all sutras were recited from memory. First written down in Pali, with Sanskrit translations coming later. Perhaps the Sanskrit translation of the Lotus Sutra was discovered 400 years after it was first written down? The sutras were handed down through generations in monasteries where monks memorized them and recited them to new students for them to memorize. I don't know when Sanskrit translations were first written down, but they were "created" in the 4th or 5th century BCE. Suggest changing 'created' to discovered. This is common knowledge, ask the Dalai Lama, not "scholars".

Hpfeil (talk) 00:32, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 'Composed' might be better than created- the commitment to writing is estimated to be in that era, but oral precursors could be older. Sourced scholarly opinion published in a WP:Reliable Source is the basis Wikipedia works from. If there are Buddhist traditions about the origins of the Lotus Sutra that have been published, those can be noted as well. I don't know of any account of the first councils that specifies the Lotus Sutra being recited- dating the Lotus Sutra based on the estimated date of the early councils would violate WP:NPOV. Scholar base their views on the dating of the text on archaeological, literary, and linguistic evidence and that's what the current dates are based on. --Spasemunki (talk) 00:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Recent improvements
☸Javierfv1212☸, thank you very much for your recent edits. JimRenge (talk) 22:30, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome! I felt this page really needed some re-organizing and some more citations. Still working on it!☸Javierfv1212☸

What is the deference between buddha and the supreme God
I have read the lotus sutra and vimalakirti sutra vary carefully ! And the great vehicle description of the buddha is not deferent from the description of the supreme God. First the buddha is depicted as the father of all so as the supreme God. Second this world is sakyamuni Buddha's world and in other sutras like amitabha sutra it is written that amitabha bodhisattva ( before buddhahood ) vowed to have a wonderful world ( buddha land ) so the the world is conditioned by amitabha and also the supreme God is the creator of the "God land" Third the Buddh'sa enlightenment was before beginningless time and also will be after endingless time, so did buddha and God lived together before the conditioning of everything ? Or is the buddha the very supreme God. Forth it is known that it is impossible to study s.God and also the Buddha Sixth there is one buddha( dharmakaya form ) and also one God ( devine form ) 197.156.118.178 (talk) 17:01, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Language or Languages?
I was hoping to find near the top the language or languages this was originally written in. But I didn't see that at the top. And I didn't see it as a skimmed page after page after page. Shouldn't this information be at the top? Looking up the word sutras, we find out that there are Hindu and Buddhist versions etc. And also there is at least one other language base, Chinese. And of course there is Japanese. The original language of this, and the oldest source of that, are crucial pieces of information. As is the topic of provenance. Confusing the topic is the chant that goes with it in some religion, that is based on two or three different languages (Namu Myoho Renge Kyo). If the information is in the article, especially the language part, should it be moved to the top, near the introduction? Misty MH (talk) 06:14, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Donald Lopez
Why does this professor’s name appear 14 times in this article? Matt90266 (talk) 03:42, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lotus Sutra


text:
Embraer Phenom 100

The Embraer EMB-500 Phenom 100 is a very light (VLJ) business jet designed and produced by the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer. Announced in November 2005, it made its first flight on 26 July 2007 and was awarded a type certificate in December 2008; the first aircraft was delivered the same month. The Phenom 100 has been stretched into the larger Embraer Phenom 300. Powered by two rear-mounted Pratt & Whitney Canada PW600 turbofans, it can transport four to seven passengers, with a range of 1,178 nmi with four occupants. As of April 2023, 401 had been delivered.

Development
During April 2005, Embraer's board of directors approved the development of very light and light jets. Within ten years, it was hoped that the company could become a major provider for the global business jet market. On 9 November of that year, the company announced at the annual NBAA convention the name of its very light jet, the Phenom 100, and displayed a full-scale mock-up of the aircraft. The company stated that it was actively exploring opportunities for the Phenom 100 to be used as an air taxi. Embraer also opted to increase personnel on its business jet division. That same month, Embraer announced that it had selected Garmin Aviation's G1000 electronic flight instrument system (EFIS) to be installed in the cockpit of its new jet.

In March 2006, Embraer announced it had completed the aircraft's digital definition phase of development. That same month, the company augmented its sales efforts with several full-sized mockups of the Phenom 100. That April, expanded plans for the aircraft's production were revealed along with a 3.5% increase in the unit price. The company reportedly aimed to secure 30% of the global market for very light jets. In May 2006, it was announced at the EBACE conference that 50 orders for the Phenom 100 had been secured. Two months later, Embraer released more details on the pending initial operators for the aircraft. In August 2006, the first order from a customer in Latin America was received.

During October 2006, the American engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney had commenced testing of the PW617-F turbofan engines intended for the Phenom 100. In March 2007, development of the aircraft was reportedly proceeding to schedule, Embraer took delivery of the first PW617-F engines that same month. The following April, the mating between the wing and fuselage of the first aircraft occurred as its assembly neared completion. In June 2007, the prototype was officially rolled out and ground testing of the aircraft commenced shortly thereafter.

On 26 July 2007, the prototype Phenom 100 performed its maiden flight from the company's facility in São José dos Campos, Brazil. Two weeks later, it was transferred to Gaviao Peixoto, where the majority of the flight test programme was conducted. In March 2008, it was announced that serial production of the aircraft would commence in the following month. During flight testing, issues with the aircraft's ice protection system and flaps were uncovered. During December 2008, the Phenom 100 was awarded its type certificate by both Brazil's National Civil Aviation Authority and the United States' Federal Aviation Administration. The aircraft is certified as the EMB-500. The first Phenom 100 delivery took place on 24 December 2008.

Design

The Embraer Phenom 100 is a low wing cantilever monoplane with a T-tail and a retractable tricycle landing gear. It has an oval fuselage with a 7.985 m3 (282 ft3) passenger cabin, a 1.47 m-high by 0.74 m-wide (4.5'x2.1') door and 1.2'x1' windows. Its unpressurized cargo hold is 1.56 m3 (54.9ft3). Its structural life is 28,000 flight cycles or 35,000 hours, and it is built of 20% composite materials. Although the Phenom 100 has capacity for four passengers in its normal configuration, it can carry up to seven passengers with a single crew, with an optional side-facing seat and belted toilet. The cabin interior is designed by BMW DesignworksUSA.

The aircraft is powered by a pair of rear-mounted Pratt & Whitney Canada PW617-F turbofan engines, each rated to generate a takeoff thrust of 7.2 kN (1,695 lb) at ISA+10 °C. These engines have dual full authority digital engine controls (FADEC). In the event of a single engine failure during takeoff, an automatic performance reserve (APR) function augments engine output to 1,777 lb. Later model PW 617 F–E models have a ten-minute thrust rating at 1,820 lb. To reduce operator costs, condition-based maintenance practices have been explored in addition to traditional scheduled routines. The Phenom 100 has a maximum flying range of 1,178 nmi with four occupants and NBAA IFR Reserves.

Variants

 * Embraer designation.
 * Embraer designation.

 * Phenom 100
 * Initial production variant, marketing name for the EMB-500 with G1000 Avionics and two PW617F-E engines.

 * Phenom 100E
 * Updated variant including multifunction spoilers. Marketing name for the EMB-500 with G1000 avionics and PW617F-E engines and spoiler panels.

 * Phenom 100EV Evolution
 * Weight savings and thrust increase from 1,695lb to 1,730lb shortening time to climb to 41,000ft from 33min to 25min and reducing takeoff distance at high-altitude and high-temperature airports from 6,609ft to 5,663ft, Garmin G3000 touch-screen flightdeck at a $4.495 million list price. It was first delivered on 31 March 2017. Marketing name for the EMB-500 with G3000 avionics and PW617F1-E engines.

 * Phenom 100EX
 * Updated in 2023 with cabin and avionics improvements including runway overrun awareness and alerting system (ROAAS).

 * U-100
 * Brazilian military designation for two Phenom 100EVs.

 * Phenom T1
 * United Kingdom military designation for Phenom 100s operated by the Royal Air Force.

Operators

The Phenom 100 has been operated by a variety of different users, including private individuals, companies, fractionals, charter operators, aircraft management companies, and military operators.

Its 2009 price was US$3.6 million, and US$4.995 million in 2023. A Phenom 100 may cost around US$2–3/mile to operate.

Civilian

 * Emirates – five Phenom 100EV aircraft for cadet training. Used for charter operations beginning in 2023.
 * Emirates – five Phenom 100EV aircraft for cadet training. Used for charter operations beginning in 2023.

Military

 * Brazilian Air Force – two aircraft delivered in October 2019 and designated U-100.
 * Pakistan Air Force – four aircraft for transporting VIPs.
 * Royal Air Force – Operated as part of the UK Military Flying Training System. On 2 February 2016 the UK Ministry of Defence signed a contract KBR-Elbit Systems for the procurement and support of five Embraer Phenom 100 jets to train Royal Air Force and Royal Navy air crew until 2033.
 * Pakistan Air Force – four aircraft for transporting VIPs.
 * Royal Air Force – Operated as part of the UK Military Flying Training System. On 2 February 2016 the UK Ministry of Defence signed a contract KBR-Elbit Systems for the procurement and support of five Embraer Phenom 100 jets to train Royal Air Force and Royal Navy air crew until 2033.
 * Royal Air Force – Operated as part of the UK Military Flying Training System. On 2 February 2016 the UK Ministry of Defence signed a contract KBR-Elbit Systems for the procurement and support of five Embraer Phenom 100 jets to train Royal Air Force and Royal Navy air crew until 2033.

State
The Texas Department of Transportation operates a fleet of four.

Aircraft deliveries
Embraer was originally planning to deliver 15 Phenom 100s during 2008 and 120–150 aircraft in 2009, however, the company would actually deliver only two aircraft in 2008 and had to reduce its 2009 plan to 97 aircraft. By late 2014, Embraer reportedly had roughly 30 orders outstanding for the aircraft.

In mid-2008, it was announced that a new Phenom assembly line would be established in Melbourne, Florida to serve the North American market. It was subsequently announced that all final assembly work would be transferred to the Florida facility from July 2016; it is reportedly capable of assembling up to 96 Phenoms and 72 Embraer Legacy 450/Embraer Legacy 500 annually. More than 170 Phenom jets have been produced at the site until June 2016, mainly for the US market. The company had two production lines for the Phenom 100EV, the other in Brazil. By November 2016, Brazilian production was on trace to be entirely replaced by the Melbourne line.

Incidents and accidents
The Phenom 100 was involved in nine hull losses, including a single fatal accident.

On 8 December 2014, a Phenom 100 with tail number N100EQ crashed into a suburban home in Gaithersburg, Maryland, while on approach to runway at Montgomery County Airpark. Six people were killed; all three on board the plane, and three more in the home on the ground. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigation have concluded that the probable cause of the accident was a pilot's misconduct related to not turning the deice system and inappropriate landing performance speeds for the weather conditions and airplane weight. They recommended the development of a system that can automatically alert pilots when the ice protection should be activated on turbofan airplanes that are certified for single-pilot operation.

title: Embraer Phenom 100


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denialist

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 03:23, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Denialist
This is at best a dicdef for a word that doesn't exist on dictionary.com, and at worst just a blatantly POV stub of political commentary 81.153.177.193 23:59, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, concurring. Frjwoolley 23:59, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * comment This is me 81.153.177.193, I am afraid I have made multiple edits to this page entirely by accident and my own ignorance of the mechanics of vfd - I was trying to fix the stuff going on on this page at the 'denialist' heading, but kept on editing this subpage as a result. I've fixed the problems now, and my own extraneous edits, I just hope my silly contributions to page histories today haven't confused everyone else as much as they've confused me 81.153.177.193 00:17, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete 04:45, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * A Google search turns up many people labelling others as "denialist", in relation to disputes such as whether HIV causes AIDS or whether there was a genocide in Armenia (Fun fact #1: The French for denialist is apparently négationniste. Fun fact #2: Wiktionary outdoes dictionary.com here.), and as such this appears to be a real concept.  A redirect to big lie would be biased, and a redirect to denial doesn't work because that's about a concept in psychology, not politics.  The content of this article is indeed biased, inasmuch as it asserts that whatever denialists oppose is the truth.  It also cites no sources for its assertion that being a denialist is a route to a successful political career, when there appear to be plenty of denialists around, of various flavours, who don't even get elected.  Redirect (not merge) to list of political epithets, and add a stub section there, is one option. Uncle G 05:15, 2005 May 27 (UTC)
 * Delete, dictionary definition. Megan1967 05:47, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Kjøllefjord

,, or is the administrative centre of Lebesby Municipality in Finnmark county, Norway. The village is located on the northwestern part of the Nordkinn Peninsula, on the shore of a small fjord which empties into the larger Laksefjorden. The 0.45 km2 village has a population (2023) of 836, which gives the village a population density of 1858 PD/km2 and makes it the largest village in the municipality and one of the largest fishing villages in Finnmark county.

The Hurtigruten coastal express boat has regular stops at Kjøllefjord. Kjøllefjord Church is located in the village. One of the largest fish processing and fishing companies in Kjøllefjord is a branch of Aker Seafoods. Another large company is Laksefjord Seafood AS. Kjøllefjord Airport once served the village, but it is now closed.

Economy
Like all other fishing villages, Kjøllefjord has fishing as their main business. By 24 June 2015, there was a single fish processing plant operating in Kjøllefjord, Aarsæther, which has since been bought by Aker Seafoods AS, now called Norway Seafood. The company is owned by Kjell Inge Røkke. Aker Seafood has plans to continue production here as well as plans to repair and update the buildings.

In the 1970s, the small Kjøllefjord Airport was established for passenger and ambulance flights, but in the 1980s it was abandoned when the nearby Mehamn Airport was opened. Today, Mehamn Airport has routes to Hammerfest, Tromsø, Vadsø, and Kirkenes.

In 2005, Statkraft constructed a wind farm near the mountain Gartefjellet, with a maximum capacity of 40 MW. The 17 wind turbines have an annual power output of 155 GWh and provide for the electrical needs of about 6,000 households.

The newspaper Kyst og Fjord is published in Kjøllefjord.

History
Kjøllefjord has been a trading post and fishing village serving the northern edge of Norway, along the Barents Sea since around the 1500s. In 1685, the county governor Hans H. Lilienskiold took a journey along the coast of Finnmark county. He visited the village of Kjøllefjord and he noted that there was a landowning widow who also traded while three other traders worked here for merchants from Bergen.

In 1690, Finnmark county was divided into seven trading districts. The author Jonas Lie wrote in the book Tremasteren Fremtiden about the village of Kjøllefjord. He gives a picture of the old monopoly trade system of that era. He writes: "Som opplagssted for Finnmarkske produkter der hentedes av bergensere og senere danske skip, som havn for russiske lodjer der lå og tusket langs kysten, og som nødhavn for fremmede skip i hvitehavsfarten på Arkhangelsk, hersket der alltid meget liv og røre" which means "As a storeroom for Finnmark products, which were picked up by ships from Bergen and later by Danish ships, as a port for Russian lodgers who bartered and traded along the coast, and as a haven for foreign ships from the White Sea that were shipping from Arkhangelsk, there was always a lot of life and stir."

Like so many other places in Finnmark, Kjøllefjord's buildings were set ablaze by German soldiers in the fall of 1944, and the entire population of approximately 700 people were evacuated and scattered throughout the country. After the liberation in 1945, most residents came back. The rebuilding began, regulation plans were prepared and eventually the permanent building plans. In a very short time, the business community was rebuilt and nine relatively modern fisheries started up their business.

The fishing fleet grew rapidly, and many skilled fishermen brought ashore an annual average of 12,690 t of fish in the years 1950, 1951, and 1952. This large haul included 4,835 t was pollock, 3290 t were cod, 2961 t of herring, and 1604 t of other fish species. In 1954, the fishing fleet totaled 155 boats. Of these, 27 boats were between 30 and 50 ft and there were ten boats over 50 ft. The rest of the boats were under 30 ft. Throughout history, fishing has been the nerve center for the community's activities, in good as well as bad times. After the war, 14 stores, two smaller hotels, and five cafes were built and the population increased to 1,700 inhabitants.

Attractions
In recent years tourism has become an important part of Kjøllefjord's economy. Arctic Coast AS holds the primary responsibility for tourist information and excursions in and around Kjøllefjord. The company offers a snowmobile safari under the northern lights, guided bus tours and, in collaboration with Davvi Siida, excursions based on Sami culture and local history for tourists all year round.

In the greater Kjøllefjord area, there are over 240 km of marked hiking trails, several of which originate from Kjøllefjord. Most of these trails are old trails where people walked between the settlements in the old days. There is a wonderful view of all the trails in the area, and it is easy to navigate. Areas west of the peninsula are very popular for hunting and fishing. Grouse is the most common prey, but people also hunt a lot of hares. In the waters around Kjøllefjord, you can find large Arctic char and trout populations. On 3 July 2013, a new world record for halibut caught on a fishing rod was set when someone pulled in a 233.5 kg fish!

The Finnkirka (the inspiration for the municipal coat of arms) is located on the west side of the Nordkinnhalvøya and is a majestic and weathered sea cliff that has a shape that resembles a church. It is believed to have once been an ancient Sami sacrificial site and is still used as a landmark for seafarers. During the winter, the municipality has bright, colored lights (representing the northern lights) that light up the cliffs.

Kjøllefjord is known for its active cultural life which includes the Chrisfestivalen music festival. Every summer in late June, this small music festival is held and it is named after blues artist Christian (Kris) Lyngedal who was from Kjøllefjord.

Football is a popular sport in Kjøllefjord for adolescents and adults. Kjøllefjord and neighboring Mehamn share a single team (since 1992) in the Nordkynn football club, which plays in the 3rd division of Norwegian football. In 1987, a sports hall was constructed.

Geography
The scenery in the area is diverse, with both plateaus and valleys with rich vegetation. After about a 20-minute hike from Kjøllefjord to the east, one comes to the world's northernmost broadleaf forests with large birch trees. The area consists of Oksevågdalen, where one finds rivers and lakes.

The climate can be summarized as follows: Most of the precipitation falls in the autumn and the winter. April and May are the driest months. Precipitation then rises again somewhat during the summer. February is the coldest month and July / August are the hottest months of the year. Southerly winds are most prominent in the autumn and winter months and northerly winds are most prominent in summer. The dark season lasts from November 18 to January 25, while the bright nights begin on April 24 and end on August 20. The midnight sun can be seen the first time on May 13 and the last time on July 31.

Kjøllefjord sits near the western edge of the Øst-Finnmark district. The place is totally out onto the Arctic Ocean, therefore there may be harsh conditions from northwesterly winds. Two inner breakwaters screen the marina and industrial piers from the sea. Kjøllefjord is 30 km from the airport in Mehamn, Mehamn Airport. In 1989 a road was completed to Kjøllefjord, finally connecting it to the rest of Norway by road.

Education
The school building that stands in Kjøllefjord was new at the start of the school year in 1956, and in 1963 it was added. In connection with the introduction of the Curriculum in 1997, they got a modern annex which is currently used for 1st grade and the SFO. At primary school in Kjøllefjord, there are about 150 pupils in 1st-10th grade. The school has a total of 23 teachers plus several assistants and support staff.

Since 2005, Kjøllefjord joined the LOSA project, which allowed high school students to take their first year of high school online from home rather than traveling to the nearest high school (which can be far away).

title: Kjøllefjord


text:
Talk:2 Esdras

Ethiopian Orthodox Bible
An anonymous editor has mentioned an Ethiopian Orthodox Bible. What edition is this Bible exactly? Do you have an ISBN? Some other reference, perhaps? Rwflammang (talk) 17:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Some interesting links may provide some references:. Rwflammang (talk) 18:18, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually 2 Esdras is not in the Ethiopian canon, but the Apocalypse of Ezra is which is 4 Esdras or 2 Esdras 3-14. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.88.83 (talk) 18:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The article says: " It is reckoned among the apocrypha by Roman Catholics, Protestants, and most Eastern Orthodox Christians." That's "most Eastern Orthodox" --- can we please be told of the minority of Eastern Orthodox and any other groups that regard it as canonical. please please?? Are the Ethiopians the one and only group that regards any of it as canonical. And, since the Ethiopic versions seems to start at chapter 3, some comment on how the Ethiopic version numbers its chapters. Sussmanbern (talk) 04:41, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Catholic name?
A parenthetical clause was added to the article just recently regarding the name 4 Esdras, "which is the name still used for it in the Catholic Church." I find this sort of thing (the indentifying of biblical nomenclature with specific religions) to be unhelpful and inaccurate. Do Greek Catholics call this book 4 Esdras in their bibles? Do Slavonic Catholics? What about Canadian Catholics who use the RSV? What is this book called in the Nova Vulgata, the official Latin bible of the Holy See? What do Protestant Vulgate scholars call it? The name of this book is specific to each bible version, not to each religion. If you replace the words "in the Catholic Church" with the words "by some (not all) Catholics," then they at least won't be inaccurate, but they will still be unhelpful, IMHO. Rwflammang (talk) 15:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC).
 * Well, as you know some terms have different meanings in the Protestant area of influence and in the Catholic area of influence: for example the term apocripha has a very different meaning. The same for the 2Esdras/4Esdras. I added a sentence to this Article because it looked like that only Jerome used the term 4 Esdras, which is wrong.
 * This importance of this text comes from its use in the pre-reform Church, and the Latin manuscripts called it "Esdrae Liber IV" (ref: Metzger, the Fourth Book of Ezra in J. Charlesworth the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha vol 1 pag 517ss ). For this reason also the main critical edition use the same title: Bensley, R The Fourth Book of Ezra, the Latin Edition edited form the MSS Cambridge 1895 . Also Protestant scholars, as Bruce M. Metzger identify it with the number Fourth (see the ref above).
 * As you know, after the Council of Trent the Catholic Church does not consider it as inspired, thus in the early Bible it was placed in appendix (with the number IV: in the official Clementine Vulgate 1592 as well as in the Douay-Rheims Bible), but modern Catholic editions do no more include it (nor the Nova Vulgata). When referred to, it is anyway named in the Catholic area of influence with the number 4, as in the referred 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia or on the Vatican web site ..."quartus Esdrae inscripti"...
 * Anyway due to your remarks, I've edited the line in "which is the name still used for it in the Catholic area of influence", because actually the name is a custom in a cultural area, not a doctrine. Be free to find a better wording. A ntv (talk) 17:24, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

 * How about something like this: ... which to this day is the name used for it in modern critical editions, which are typically in Latin, the language of its most complete exemplars. We can cite Bensly and Metzger and the Stuttgart Vulgate. Rwflammang (talk) 19:12, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit war
What exactly is the problem with BenEsq's edits? They strike me as conventional and uncontroversial. Rwflammang (talk) 23:06, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

 * They are controversial because not all points of view agree when this book of the Bible was written. There is no convincing evidence whatsoever for these scholars to say when the book was written, just bald assertions, conjecturing and hypotheses. I don't mind the information about when these scholars think it was written being added to the appropriate section (where it does not now already appear, contradicting Ben's edit summary assertion) PROVIDED it is not endorsed, but impartially attributed to which scholars said it was written when. There is no reason to put this one-sided language in the lead, since there is no such one-sided language in the body at all. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 00:06, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for opening this discussion, Rwflammang. The interesting thing is that the body of the article had already reflected that 2 Esdras was a combined work according to scholars before I edited the intro to reflect what was already there. The intro as it was stated that 2 Esdras was a Second Temple work (i.e., pre-70 CE), which to my knowledge is not disputed from any perspective. The intro also did not mention the scholarly view that this is a tripartite work. I merely attempted to reconcile the intro with the body, relying on the Oxford Annotated Apocrypha and other supposedly non-controversial works. None of this is my own perspective and I'm not trying to advance any particular point of view, but I have not yet seen any academic work that takes a different perspective. If there is one, then Til Eulenspiegel is welcome to add to the discussion by citing alternative points of view, but my guess is that he has no authority except his religious convictions, which he is entitled to, but not at the expense of the integrity of Wikipedia. Please advise how this should be handled. Thanks. BenEsq (talk) 05:55, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I make no statements whatsoever about my personal beliefs; they are irrelevant to policy and best checked at the door. You however have already played your hand by stating your personal opinion / point of view perspective as follows: "Wikipedia is no place for Christian fundamentalists."  It may surprise you to learn that contrary to your belief, wikipedia has no such policy excluding readership, contributing editors, or reliable sources representing any major religious viewpoint, particularly on an article about that religion's holy book. On the contrary, the reason we were given a "NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW" policy as our "prime directive" over a decade ago, is to ensure that ALL points of view are given their day.  Even the ones that you are hostile and polemical to, such as those you wrongly label "Christian fundamentalists" are entitled to their view.  This book may be considered "apocryphal" from the Protestant point of view and from the Roman Catholic point of view.  They may have had their scholars go into a closed smoking room, come out without any proof whatsoever and announce "We have all agreed with each other that it was written around 70 AD, there is a consensus!"  But that isn't any scientific method, buddy. There isn't any smoking gun in the text proving it was written then - it's based 100% on some strained interpretations made in the halls of Europe, that they just want you to swallow on a "leap of faith" on their say-so.  This book is considered a holy and important part of the Bible in the Oriental Orthodox Church.  Scholars in Oriental Orthodox nations have no problem accepting that it was written during the Babylonian Captivity, and neither have I, in the absence of any compelling evidence to the contrary.  But when you burst in spewing things like "Wikipedia is no place for Christian fundamentalists" I can only consider you a polemic / hostile editor with an agenda, not a level-headed, even-handed or impartial editor whom I feel comfortable with working on this Oriental Orthodox Bible article. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 13:16, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Til: No one is "excluding" anyone. You are welcome to edit the page just like anyone else and cite to sources that have different perspectives. The problem is that you have chosen to delete what you don't like instead of contributing to the page through addition. As you are fond of referring to Wikipedia's policies, you must be aware of the Wikipedia Dispute Resolution, which says: "When you find a passage in an article that is biased or inaccurate, improve it if you can; don't delete salvageable text. For example, if an article appears biased, add balancing material or make the wording more neutral. Include citations for any material you adbiased then feel free to try your hand on making them more neutral. Or add to the discussion as suggested.  By simply deleting what you personally disagree with, you are not engaging in constructive discourse.  This is not about me or you; it is about improving the website. If you do not agree, then we can escald. If you do not know how to fix a problem, ask for help on the talk page." I don't know how my edits could be made more neutral; but if you feel they are ate this to the Dispute resolution noticeboard. I am more than happy for a third party to review the edits and reach a decision. Is this what you would prefer? BenEsq (talk) 02:19, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I have no problem with this viewpoint appearing impartially worded in the appropriate section, but it is not correct to say it belongs in the lead, endorsed, as a summary of what is already in the body - what there is in the body currently is impartially worded and is a good example of npov. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 02:38, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on 2 Esdras. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070926234523/http://net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Apocalyptic%20Esdras to http://net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Apocalyptic%20Esdras

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:31, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Ambrose and 'the third book of Esdras'
Ambrose makes by far the most extensive use of 2 Esdras of any patristic writer. For the most part, he simply calls it "the book of Esdras"; but where he needs to differentiate it from canonical First Ezra (1 Esdras) and second Ezra, (Ezra-Nehemiah) he calls it 'the third book of Esdras'. All this is in the cited source, Karina Martin Hogan; "Curiously, Ambrose refers to 4 Ezra as the third book of Esdras (elsewhere he cites it simply as 'the book of Esdras'". This point is also made by Bogaert. There is, though, a potential for confusion, as on-line editions of Ambrose works have been silently 'adjusted' to read 'fourth book of Esdras' an this point - presumably to bring them into consistency with the Clementine Vulgate.  Bogaert and Hogan follow the manuscript witnesses, as should we. TomHennell (talk) 08:59, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

It's not Ezra, it's Ezra!
The opening paragraph contains the following error:

"Its authorship is ascribed to Ezra, a scribe and priest of the 5th century BCE"

This is absolutely not correct. If you read the text, it is attributed to Ezra the prophet, who lived during the Babylonian captivity. Ezra the scribe is a different person entirely who lived much later. The Ethiopian Church claims Ezra the prophet was the second Exarch of the Jews in Babylon.

I'm not arguing that either Ezra existed, just that they are not the same person/character. I have no interest in starting a edit war, so I'll leave it to others to fix the article. But, as it is now, it's wrong.

J.Stornoway (talk) 02:30, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no "Ezra the scribe". The book ascribes itself to the Ezra (the only one), whom it also identifies with Shealtiel, the father of Serubbabel. Of course, this is chronologically impossible as E. and S. lived a hundred years apart. The author around the year 100 AD failed to realise that.
 * As for "I'm not arguing that either Ezra existed" let's not delve into hyperskeptic obscurantism here. There is no reason to think that the 5th century Ezra did not exist and there is no reason that a second Ezra existed. Str1977 (talk) 20:52, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:2 Esdras


text:
Cloud Chief, Oklahoma

Cloud Chief is a small unincorporated community in Washita County, Oklahoma, United States. Once the county seat of Washita County, it is now considered a ghost town. Only a few buildings remain, mostly in disrepair.

History
The townsite was platted in April 1892, as Tacola, when the Cheyenne-Arapaho reservation was opened for settlement. A few weeks later, the town population was said to be over 3,000 inhabitants. The post office was established March 29, 1892, and Cloud Chief was designated by the U.S. Congress as the county seat of H County, Oklahoma Territory. Many of the new settlers left the town within a year. Cloud Chief was at the fringe of "Texas" and as a result was settled mainly by Texans. Nobody who competed for the town lots could ever forget the excitement. Fights over claims were commonplace, and the cry of "claimjumper" was heard. In two hours the town was established. Many of the settlers left almost immediately after their claims were legally staked, for they had six months from the time they filed to the time they had to settle on their claims.

Many of the settlers went home to get their families and households. Many had left their business hanging fire until they found out whether or not they could actually find a claim in the newly opened country. They had to sell out or close out their business and farms back home.

The population dwindled, but only for six months. Then the town began its growth that was to continue for an eight-year period. When Cloud Chief was at its peak it had population of about 700 people. However, by 1898 the population had begun to rise again.

In 1900 the people of newly formed Washita County, by a vote of 1,349 in favor to 282 in opposition, illegally moved the county seat to the more-centrally-located town of Cordell. Lawsuits followed, and reached the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled the move illegal in 1904. Two county commissioners went to Washington, D.C., and persuaded Congress to pass legislation approving the move. President Theodore Roosevelt signed the law in 1906.

The Cloud Chief public schools opened for the 1892–1893 school year. The Works Progress Administration (WPA) built a high school in 1938, which closed after the 1959–1960 school year. The high school was known as the Cloud Chief Warriors. The Cloud Chief post office closed on December 31, 1964. The town also lost its charter in 1964.

Cloud Chief was also previously home of two newspapers. It was home to the Cloud Chief Witness, as well as the Cloud Chief Beacon. The Cloud Chief Beacon moved and became the Cordell Beacon immediately after the August 17, 1900, issue was printed. After moving to Cordell, the newspaper continued publication from January 13, 1905, until February 17, 1919.

title: Cloud Chief, Oklahoma


text:
User talk:Beastofengland

Wikipedia is not a dictionary. It is not necessary for Wikipedia to have an article on every word. Georgia guy 00:00, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Beastofengland


text:
Disney's All-Star Music Resort

Disney's All-Star Music Resort is a resort that is part of the Walt Disney World Resort. It is one of five resorts in the Value Resort category, along with Disney's All-Star Sports Resort, Disney's All-Star Movies Resort, Disney's Pop Century Resort, and Disney's Art of Animation Resort. The resort is located on the southern portion of the Walt Disney World Resort property near Disney's Animal Kingdom. Disney's All-Star Music Resort is a 1,604-room hotel featuring giant icons that pay homage to classic music genres—including Broadway show tunes, calypso, country, jazz, and rock n' roll. It was the first Disney Value Resort to feature family suites. As a characteristic with all Disney Value resorts, the resort features a music theme with giant novelty items such as guitars, trumpets, and drums. The resort is designated as part of the Florida Green Lodging Program.

The groundbreaking for the All-Star Resort complex was in November 1992. The architect of the resort was Arquitectonica of Miami. All Star Music was the second All-Star Resort to open after Disney's All-Star Sports Resort. Calypso was the first building to open on November 22, 1994, and Broadway was the last to open on February 17, 1995. The resort opened on November 22, 1994.

Areas

 * Calypso (Bldgs. 1 & 10)
 * Jazz Inn (Bldgs. 2 & 9)
 * Rock Inn (Bldgs. 3 & 4)
 * Country Fair (Bldgs. 5 & 6)
 * Broadway Hotel (Bldgs. 7 & 8)

Dining and shopping

 * Intermission Food Court
 * Singing Spirits Pool Bar
 * Maestro Mickey's (store)
 * Note'able Arcade

Disney transportation
Disney's All-Star Resorts are connected via bus to the various theme parks and activities located throughout the resort complex.

title: Disney's All-Star Music Resort


text:
Jorge María Mejía

Jorge María Mejía (31 January 1923 – 9 December 2014) was an Argentine cardinal of the Catholic Church (Roman Rite).

Early life and ordination
Mejía was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and ordained to the priesthood for the Metropolitan See of Buenos Aires on 22 September 1945. He taught Sacred Scripture at several universities, participated at the Second Vatican Council as a peritus and was made a Chaplain of His Holiness on 20 September 1978. He held a doctorate in theology from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas (Angelicum) and a license in biblical science from the Pontifical Biblical Institute.

Bishop
On 8 March 1986, Mejía was appointed as titular bishop of Apollonia and an official of the Curial Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace. His episcopal consecration took place on 12 April 1986 and was performed by Cardinal Roger Etchegaray with Archbishop Eduardo Martínez Somalo and Bishop Antonio María Javierre Ortas as co-consecrators. On 5 March 1994, Mejía was named Secretary of the Congregation for Bishops and raised to the rank of Archbishop. Five days later, on 10 March 1994, he was appointed Secretary of the College of Cardinals. On 7 March 1998, he became both the archivist and the librarian of the Vatican Secret Archives.

Cardinal
On 21 February 2001 Mejía was appointed as Cardinal-Deacon of San Girolamo della Carità by Pope John Paul II in the consistory. On 24 November 2003, he retired as archivist and librarian of the Vatican Secret Archives. On 21 February 2011 he opted for the order of Cardinal Priest with his former diaconal church elevated to the level of cardinalitial title.

Mejía was 82 at the time of the 2005 papal conclave that elected Pope Benedict XVI and thus was not eligible to vote. In January 2010 Mejía led the delegation from the Holy See's Pontifical Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews meeting for the Commission for Dialogue between Jews and Catholics, the ninth such meeting. From 2013 until his death the following year he sat on the Board of World Religious Leaders for the interfaith dialogue-based organization, the Elijah Interfaith Institute. On 13 March 2013 Mejía suffered a heart attack on the same day his fellow Argentine Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected as Pope Francis, the 266th pontiff of the Catholic Church. Mejía died in Rome on 9 December 2014 at the age of 91.

title: Jorge María Mejía