text:
Talk:Coleco Adam

No mention of package contents
While the article frequently mentions the printer, it never explicitly says that the system sold as a bundle including the printer. 74.69.88.134 (talk) 15:21, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

80KB RAM? On a Z-80 Based System
Where they using some sort of bank selection technology? Z-80 based CPUs were 8 bit with 16-bit addressing (64KB direct address space, maximum). I would suggest that someone familiar with the details add them to this article since the vast majority of Z-80 based systems supported only 64KB or less of RAM (typically 48KB RAM and 16KB ROM, for example; or 64KB RAM with some "shadow-ROM" copied into it during system start using bank selection). JimD (talk) 20:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I recall being told that the 80k number came from adding the 64k CPU to some 16k in the keyboard chip. My understanding (I'm not an expert on the subject) is that this didn't mean the software had access to the extra memory, it just means the sales job was easier. Does this seem plausible? rewinn (talk) 23:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The 80 kB was made up of 64 kB from the main circuit board plus 16 kB in the ColecoVision unit which was supplied with the Adam.101.178.163.92 (talk) 04:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

 * The 80 KiB is from the 64 KiB of on-board memory along with the dedicated 16 KiB of VDP memory (graphics memory) that the TMS9918 needs. While this extra 16 KiB isn't "general purpose memory", it can be used to hold stuff that isn't displayed on-screen.  Albeit much slower than normal RAM.  Hence, it *DOES* have 80 KiB of RAM.  Also, the ADAM wasn't the first or only 8-bit computer to have more than the maximum of 64 KiB.  Other computers like the Apple IIe and Commodore 128 had 128 KiB as standard (well, additionally for the Apple IIe but very common). cbmeeks 18:51, 24 October 2019 (UTC) (cbmeeks)

Some other Quirks
Hi, big coleco fan here. I adjusted the article slightly:

Another odd quirk about the printer is that it operated like a type writer. The user would type a key, and it would appear on the paper.

That's because you are in the electronic typewriter program. Pushing Escape/WP takes you to the word processor, which functions a lot like a modern word processor. I mentioned the typewriter in the article.

And in the specs, the external expansion port on the side of the stand alone version was not mentioned. I'm not complenely positive it wasn't on the expansion though, as I've never owned one. (The inside of a standalone has a modified Colecovision circuit board, with the expansion slot, which is connected to the ADAM circuit board with a ribbon cable, which has the external port on it. And I really don't know how they got away with that...)

And, I didn't think it was neccessary to put in the article, but, I'd like to mention that the tape erasure issue also exists on some floppy drives of that era. Stray write signals from the heads will happen when they are powered up, but there is no mechanism to keep them away from the tape/disk to prevent this. (As with modern drives). Some of the tape drives in existance parked the tape over the leader when done, but this is not possible on the coleco. There still is that magnetic surge of course.

I'll probably continue improving this article. I also have a nice permanently connected and properly placed (on a bookshelf) ADAM in my room, should I post pictures of it? I see the picture on the article is the expansion module, and is not hooked up!

Phroziac 20:58, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * If it's a good picture, why not? More information about the item is better! rewinn 03:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The photo of the bottom of the memory console adds no useful information. I think it should be deleted, but I didn't do so since I don't want to take away from the article without adding to it, but I think that photo is a waste of bandwidth on the page.  The other photos are great additions.  Dkraemer1 (talk) 20:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

 * About the tape/leader issue. IIRC, a "selling point" of the Digital Data Packs was supposed to be that their neutral position was in the center of the tape, with half of the tape on either side, instead of at one end of the tape. The idea was that it'd cut average access time in half, or something. It's one of those great ideas that didn't necessarily work; perhaps part of the problem was the stray erasure problem you mention? Also, the DDPs looked just enough like standard tape cassettes to invite price comparison, but were much more expensive. That only increased the annoyance when things didn't work, and was probably a bad marketing/design decision (one of many for Adam). I had a lot of fun with mine but hoo boy! did it tank in the marketplace! rewinn 23:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Early Adam computers had numerous QC problems: tape drives snapping tapes, printer power supplies overheating, etc. Many early adapters returned theirs to the store. Does anyone have a ADAM today? Is it stable? :( Pelladon 23:49, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I have an ADAM somewhere, did a motherboard swap with the ColecoVision Expansion Module 3 which I found at a liquidation shop many many years ago. Printer stopped printing but still passes power. Added 2nd DDP drive. Never got my hands on a disc drive. Lexor1969 (talk) 20:40, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

The Digital Datapack (DDP) had two format modes, one where the directory was stored in the middle of the tape, which worked quite well for "random access" simulation, and one where the tapes loaded from the beginning, useful for games. Also, I just added details about the DDP drive return problems. I personally caused a damaged drive by ejecting a moving tape and I suspect most of the returns were caused by users. Lexor1969 (talk) 20:40, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Video processor
The TI-99/4A used the TMS9918A, not the TMS9918. There are significant differences between them. The TMS9918 was used in the TI-99/4 Home Computer. Since the A version is covered on the Texas_Instruments_TMS9918 page, the link could be fixed simply by removing the A in TI-99/4A. Or the link could be altered to add the A to the chip name.

 * Of course, on both the ColecoVision and ADAM it used the TMS9928A as it outputted composite video signals. WikiPro1981X (talk) 11:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Donkey Kong for ADAM
As currently written, the article suggests that Coleco scrapped its port of Donkey Kong from the ColecoVision as a result of the CES flap. Yet, there certainly was a version of Donkey Kong released solely for the ADAM on DDP cassette. Something doesn't seem terribly right about this apocryphal account, what are its sources? D.brodale 03:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Steve Kent's Ultimate History of Video Games goes in to good detail about it, as does David Scheff's well referenced Nintendo history book Game Over. The account is indeed accurate for what happened at that '83 Summer CES and the game was initially scrapped because Atari Inc. had the sole home computer rights.  The Donkey Kong Super Game datapack was a later release after Atari Inc. ceased to exist in the Summer of '84 (and its properties transfered to Atari Corp.), freeing up the obligation by Nintendo.  --Marty Goldberg 03:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

 * A greater level of detail ought to be applied to the article, then. The current writing leaves the port "on the floor" so to speak, with an open suggestion that it never saw public release. It also wouldn't hurt to insert above-mentioned references to support the whole. D.brodale 04:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

 * The same choice of words also applied to the Coleco Adam port on the main Donkey Kong Wikipedia article. I want to see that article corrected, too, please. WikiPro1981X (talk) 00:14, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I just removed "and it was eventually scrapped". I own a copy of Super Donkey Kong for the ADAM. Lexor1969 (talk) 20:33, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Someone better correct this article to indicate that the datapack version of Donkey Kong did exist. The prototype version that got Coleco into trouble with Atari was a cartridge-based port. However, even the Atari 8-bit computer version of the game was cartridge-based. WikiPro1981X (talk) 11:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Coleco Scholarships
Did Coleco ever honor the $500 scholarships it offered to Adam customers?Sfa2000 (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC) No and yes., they were brought to court on it based on information I have. After checking for accuracy i may add it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leeroyhim (talk • contribs) 22:27, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

ColecoVision Cartridge Backups Using CP/M
It turns out that ADAM's CP/M was pretty much useless, except where hackers are concerned. A Coleco-hired consultant (by the name of Steve Munnings if I recall) programmed a ColecoVision cartridge copier in CP/M. Plug in the cartridge, turn on the system, boot CP/M, and you could copy most cartridges to datapack or disc drive (if you were lucky enough to have one). You could then run the games without the cartridge from CP/M. Since CP/M was an 80-column operating system, the 36-column ADAM (its 40-column capable graphics chip was limited to 36 columns for overscanning televisions) made CP/M a nightmare to use with actual CP/M apps.

This ColecoVision "warez" scene was the only thing that gave ADAM owning kids any legitimacy with their Commodore 64 game-trading friends. Lexor1969 (talk) 20:40, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Image Description
Anybody else think the description for that first image is confusing? There's not an ounce of punctuation in the thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.75.71.133 (talk) 22:35, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I've made an attempt at rewording the caption to clarify what is shown. Perhaps it's a slight improvement over what came before. D. Brodale (talk) 22:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Sales and Game list.
First, part of the article, pretty much all the sentences around the mention of the Adam selling around 500 and a few above that, don't seem to be sourced and I have not heard anything similar to it.

Second, there is not a game list of Adam only, compatible, or hybrid games. I was wondering if I should put the games on the same article page or because there are over 50, make a new article page?

Edit: There should be an automatic option for signs. Leeroyhim (talk) 22:28, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Introduction has little to do with the machine.
I feel like the introduction of this article is not constructive. It says basically nothing about the machine or its development history, instead spending nearly all of it's wordage describing an event at CES that had almost nothing to do with the success or failure of the computer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.31.175.241 (talk) 11:59, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Multiple Processor Marketing
I remember plainy the television commercial was very effective, with the actor stating that unlike most computing home electronics, ADAM was actually a "real computer" and also, having four CPUs you could do something useful while the other processors are busy.

It would be nice if someone could describe a bit about the marketing and also the multi-processor capabilities. DouglasHeld (talk) 02:13, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Serial port
It had nothing resembling an RS-232 serial port I take it? 57.135.233.22 (talk) 05:03, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Coleco Adam


text:
Talk:Western United States

please also see
Please also see Talk:American West for talk regarding the same subject matter on a former duplicate article's talk page, that was merged and redirected here.

Merge with American West at Western United States
This article needs to be merged with its duplicate article American West at Western United States, which is where the article should be located under WikiProject U.S. regions naming conventions. -JCarriker 20:59, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Since there seems to be no oppostion to 'this page being moved, I'll be moving it to Western United States momentarily. American West still needs to be merged with it. -JCarriker 04:10, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

American West vs. Western U.S.
66.167.139.50 05:30, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC): The current state of these two article is problematic. My suggestion, posted on WikiProject U.S. Regions/General and Talk:American West, is to post the cultural aspects of the American West and its changing boundaries as the frontier moved westward, in American West, whil have this article focus concretely on an enumerated list of states. American West should either have no color-coded maps or multiple maps, one for each period in American history.

Is the West a region?
I am curious as to whether or not participants here consider the West a true region...in the sense of a coherent cultural entity as is, say, The South or New England?

My own opinion is that it is basically a part of the country largely characterized by post-bellum settlement, open spaces and true mountains, sparcer population and drier climate, a certain individualistic spirt, etc. But othewise, those states considered "western" are not really bound by any historic and deep ties of blood and soil and folkways. It seems to me the West is a collection of individual regions. For instance, Texas and Kansas can both be called western. They certainly shared the cowboy and cattle drive of western history. Yet, they were settled by wholy different peoples in the pre and post-"Civil War" migration. Texas is Southern in history, culture and outlook, and Kansas is truly midwestern. In a state like Nevada, the differences get even broader.

I would say Texas (and Oklahoma south of Oklahoma City) is the Western South. Northern Oklahoma and Kansas thru the Dakotas are the Plains Midwest. New Mexico and Arizona (and trans-pecos Texas) is the TRUE SouthWest.

I am on shaky ground here, cos I know nothing about it...but my lady friend (a native Coloradoan) says Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and Arizona is the true West (New Mexico and Arizona seem to be a part of a two!). Anyway, Montana, Idaho, Oregon and Washington are the "Northwest". And California is just California! LOL

Polygamy in Utah/Politics in West
This article states the following: "modern Utah tolerates polygamy and has a long history of polygamous territorial leaders." That is a grossly innacurate statement. It is true that the Utah territory was once led by practicing polygamists, but MODERN Utah in no way, shape or form tolerates this practice. The vast majority of Utahns reject any form of polygamy, and recent law enforcement efforts targeting polygamists have increased significantly. The sentence should be removed from this artcile.

This article also implies that Orange County is the only metropolitan area in the West that leans toward the Republican party: "With the notable exception of Orange County, California, major urban centers on the Pacific Coast and throughout the West lean toward the Democratic Party." That is a false statement. Maricopa County, AZ (Pheonix), Utah County, UT (Provo-Orem) and Ada County, ID (Boise) are just a few of the several Western metropolitan areas that usually lean Republican.

Revert
I tried to organize (creating new headings) the "Further Reading" page. The Materialscientist reverted my work. No explanation given. 134.124.26.221 (talk) 22:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I agree that doing reverts of non-vandalism edits without providing an edit summary is bad form (at least), but it wouldn't hurt if you were more explanatory at what you are trying to achieve, here and in your edit summaries. Simply saying you're moving something may not be seen as enough explanation. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 22:47, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for responding. Much, much appreciated. I tried to explain each change in detail: I'm creating an "environment" heading. Now I'm now moving books on the environment from the surveys to the "environment" page and so on. If there is more I need to do, I'm happy to do it. Please advise. Sincerely. 134.124.26.221 (talk) 22:55, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Split proposed
Further reading suggests that the Further reading section should be limited in size. Wikipedia is not a catalogue of all existing works, which in the case of a historical topic like World War II would run into thousands of items. Furthermore, it opines:

I propose that this section be split off to Bibliography of the Western United States, using the Bibliography of California history, Bibliography of Oregon history, and Bibliography of the American frontier as models.

Alternately, it would need to be severely and judiciously trimmed to bring it to a reasonable size. Peaceray (talk) 22:14, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

 * My general preference is to split when a list of substantial works is long or going in that direction. Trimming to only notables might short-change the reader on such an expansive topic. So I'm fine with a split here. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 22:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of splitting off this section into a separate bibliography. The Western United States is a vast region. Clio'sMemory (talk) 19:44, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * OK I split it off (and added sections on culture) to Bibliography of the Western United States -- any comments?? Rjensen (talk) 05:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Western United States


text: Category:1805 in law

title: Category:1805 in law


text: Category:Subdivisions of Rwanda

title: Category:Subdivisions of Rwanda


text:
Talk:Gupta Empire

Removed text
Removed the following text: Very recently a few scholars have linked Guptas with rulers mentioned in Bhagwatam; however, these things are largely disputed and the idea seems politically motivated to promote the sale of books written and promoted by some entities. Seemed to promote a POV.

___________________________

Somebody, after 23rd of October has added the name of Ashoka after Skandagupta in the dynastic list. I know because I copied the name of the rulers on 23rd and then today someone said ashoka's name is in the list. There is a conspiracy to put the name of Ashoka in Gupta dynasty. Would the editors please note and take action ?

--- somsuj from Indian History Community of Orkut. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.180.16 (talk) 08:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

== Pending tasks

system of government deeptrivia (talk) 01:23, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Map
The map depicts Gupta Empire ruling greater Sistan and Afghanistan. Its totally false :

1. Sistan was one of the most important provinces of the Sassanid empire and it was governed for almost 700 years by Suren-Pahlav Clan.

2. On the given period of time Sassanids were in their first Golden era the period that Shapur II annexed many cities in nowadays Pakistan and western India to his already vast empire. After him the successive rules were so protective of their eastern territory.

3. See Indo-Sassanian.

Amir85 10:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Hello Amir85,

 * I did not post the map, but out of curiousity, I would like to discuss it. First a clarification: you are referring to the map that is currently posted on the Gupta page, correct?

 * Now that that is out of the way, on that map, no part of Seistan appears under Gupta control. The Western-most territory is that of Sind, a part of Greater India and under Guptan rule after the defeat of the Sakas. Regarding Afghanistan, from what I can tell, no part of it is featured as part of the Gupta Empire, as Takshasila and the Kabul Valley are recorded to have remained under the direct rule of the Kushans. It should be noted though that Guptan records mention campaigns extending to Bahlika which refers to Afghanistan.

 * Sassanid control on the subcontinent is recorded to have taken place following their defeat and reinstatement of the Kushans as vassals. Just to clarify, what does your research indicate as the eastern-most region/city on the subcontinent that came under Sassanid control? Are there actual inscriptions or imperial records to indicate control in these regions or is the evidence again numismatic?

 * For example, did the Saka Kshatraps of Gujarat pay homage to the Sassanids? As far as I know, the Kabul Valley and the parts of Pakistan (i.e. Takshasila) under Kushan rule did, but not Gujarat under the Kshatraps. Moreover, the Kshatraps themselves became independent of the Kushans prior to the rise of the Sassanids. I would be interested in taking a look at some articles you could point me out to that have a more definitive boundary for Sassanid control on the Subcontinent. As you know, there is insufficient research out there on this and other subcontinental topics.

 * Also, the article on Indo-Sassanians erroneously credits the Indo-Sassanians with continuous rule in parts of the subcontinent from the fifth through tenth centuries. After all, the Sassanids themselves were extinguished following the death of Yazdegerd III and the escape of Feroz into China. What evidence is there to indicate that they are connected to the Hindu Shahi Dynasty that ruled the Kabul Valley and the Punjab until the 10 century?

 * Lastly, could you please refer me to some evidence that establishes the Indo-Sassanians as a separate and independent dynasty from the Imperial Persian line? From what I understand, the Kushanshahs were merely the reinstated Kushan dynasts. Anyhow, I am looking forward to your response.

 * Regards,

 * Devanampriya

Contributions
This part of the page is in need of much work. The language here is quite confusing, and I can only hope an expert can come in to expand upon this section further.

The 'Legacy' section mentions Aryabhata 'proposing' that the earth is round. The round earth theory is by the time of the Guptas about 1000 years old, so i'm not sure it's really relevant (or appropriate to call it part of the gupta legacy). see page on the theory of a spherical earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1011:B029:E2E6:ED28:F32C:F748:8E2 (talk) 00:20, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Origin of Guptas
The Arya Manjushri Mul Kalpa, is a history of India covering the period 700 BCE to 770 AD. The history was a Buddhist Mahayana work, by a Tibetan scholar, and was composed sometime in the 8th century CE.

K P Jayaswal brought this material out from above book in his eminently scholarly book :An Imperial history of India C 700 BC – C 770 AD. K P Jayaswal has spotted and brought out the fact that the second Guptas, (Chandra Gupta II, Samudra Gupta etc circa 200 BCE to 600 BCE) were Jats, who came originally form the Mathura area. They were of the “ Dharan” goth/Gotra, as shown by the inscription of the Prabhadevi Plate, where she gives her father’s (and her) goth as Dharan. The Dharan Jats still can be found in the U.P Mathura region and they proudly point to their ancient glory, of how their forefathers ruled Hindustan.

According to him Gupta is said to have been a Mathura-Jata (Sanskrit- Jata-vamsa). Jata-vamsa, that is, Jata Dynasty stands for Jarta, that is, Jat. That the Guptas were Jat; we already have good reasons to hold (JBORS, XIX. p. 1U). His Vaisali mother is the Lichchhavi lady.

The historian Bhim Singh Dahiya has proved by applying “Grimm's law of Variation” that in Indo-European languages the alphabet “J” changes to “G”. Due to this law the Chinese call Jats as “Getae” and Germans call them “Got”, “Gaut” or “Goth”. The Proto-Germanic name Gaut changes to Gupt as under:

Gapt is considered to be a corruption of Gaut (Gaut→Gavt→Gaft→Gapt, cf. eftir and eptir, "after" in Old Norse). Gapt changed to Gupt in India.

When Chandragupta II, Vikramaditya married his daughter with a Vakataka prince he called tribe as "Dharan" which is a gotra of Jats even today. Skandagupta has written in an inscription of Junagarh that Gupta is a title, which means soldier or a chief. Hence Bhim Singh Dahiya concludes that Guptas were Jats.

The above facts may help to find the origin of Guptas and need further research.--burdak 17:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Guptas were neither Jats, nor low born Vaishyas as many have mentioned and which is also mentioned in article. They have claimed themselves to be of Solar race in their inscription. As per Vedic literature, Solar and Lunar race are of Kshatriyas only. Therefore, it's clear that they were Kshatriyas. TeamIndic (talk) 20:57, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Guptas were Jats of Dharan gotra Prerit Tushir (talk) 08:41, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

"Classical anarchy"
Can someone please expand on this? I don't understand. Tuncrypt 02:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Guptas never ruled Punjab and Sind
Gupta empire was confined to central and north-eastern part of modern India. Gupatas never ruled Pujab, Sind and parts of Rajisthan, as it is shown in the map.

Oh gosh is this another one of those 'islamic' histories of Pakistan that you are refering to?...All evidence points to the fact that Guptas did rule punjab and sindh and southern mountains of kashmir i.e Akhnur, mirpur. The areas upto the Indus river in the West, entire Sindh coast and Jhelum river in the north have been known to include the Gupta territory and its Vassals. March, 25, 2006

Reality is always bitter. There is no such a thing as Islamic Histories Of Pakistan. But the Hindutva History of Hindutvas is unfortunately a reality and these Hindutvas have ruined the whole Wikipedia.

This is not a biased view...it is supported by many history reference books written from primary evidence (archeological or from surviving documents). Look at the book The Gupta Empire by Radhakumud Mookerji published by Hind Kitabs Ltd, Bombay, 1959. Shyam (talk) 04:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Kindly provide this 'evidence', as the Oxford History of India seems to state otherwise:

His son and chosen successor, Samudragupta, stands forth as a real man — scholar, poet, musician, and warrior. The early years of his vigorous reign were devoted to the thorough conquest of Upper India, that is to say, the country now known as the United Provinces of Agra and Oudh with the Central India Agency and Bengal, but not including the Panjab

Oxford Students History of India by Vincent Arthur Smith

Also please look at the maps below. Khokhar (talk) 07:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

True map of the Gupta empire
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Negandhi anand (talk • contribs) 17:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

Decimal System
The reference to the Decimal System is inaccurate - although zero was invented around 400 CE, The decimal system itself was invented at least 600 years earlier, long before the Guptas. (See the Wikipedia article on the Hindu-Arabic numeral system.) Sasha 13:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

the largest empire??
The first sentence claims that the Gupta Empire was the largest in the world. This claim is made also for the Mongolians, for the Romans, the English and so on and so forth. Everyone wants their empire to be the biggest. Size is I think a relatively minor gague of importance. I suggest that whoever works on this page remove this sentence so that this entry sound more professional.Brosi 22:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

-- Well, the Mongol Empire WAS the largest empire in history, both in land mass and population. But the Gupta Empire was much smaller than others in terms of area - but had a very large population. HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:35, 22 June 2010 (UTC)HammerFilmFan

Please restore images
Somebody, probably well-intentioned, broke the link to two of the images in the article by introducing an additional space in the image names. Could somebody restore the original image names in the article? (Image:Two Gold coins of Chandragupta II.jpg and Image:Silver Coin of Chandragupta II.jpg, without spaces). Cheers PHG (talk) 05:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Origin of Guptas page created
Following para has been removed from the introduction. It can be discussed in the page origin of Guptas.

"The most accepted theory about the origins of the Guptas is that the Guptas originated from Bengal. The mention of "Varendra Mrigashihavan Stupa" on a mound in Nepal is a strong evidence that the Guptas originated from Bengal. Maharaja Sri-Gupta probably ruled a portion of Northern/Southern Bengal. Later Chandragupta I established his dominion over Magadha through marital policy with the Licchavis."

The above paragraph violates WP:APT. No reference has been cited which says that the theory is the most accepted. So it an WP:OR. Manoj nav (talk) 18:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

History of the Gupta dynasty
There's a big unreferenced text dump at History of the Gupta dynasty which should either be referenced, cleaned up and wikified or incorporated into this article. Pichpich (talk) 19:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Absolutely! ... said: Rursus (bork²) 06:58, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, absolutely. A lot of India articles are really just overwhelming text dumps.  I try to clean them up when I can, but I have just sporadic knowledge of Indian history and limited access to texts on the topic.  It should be a separate article, ideally, as the topic is huge.  However, do what you can, and you have my support.  I''ll see what I can do, also.  --KP Botany (talk) 07:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Gupta empire coverage
The first section says the empire covered modern day Pakistan, this is not true and will be removed :

An important development had taken place in the neighbouring Country of India a little earlier which deserves our attention. Buddhism, which was on the decline from the 3rd century A.D. onward was overthrown by Hinduism reasserting its lost hegemony. This process culminated with the coming into power of the Guptas by the end of the 4th century A.D. A point of considerable significance to be noted here is that though the Gupta Empire is considered one of the most glorious in the annals of Hindu history covering a vast area of this sub-continent, yet it could not bring Pakistan under its tutelage. During the Gupta period, Pakistan was in the hands of Kushan Shahis and Sassanians. Even during Samudragupta's triumphal career this region remained independent of India. "Samudragupta did not attempt to carry his arms across the Sutlej or to dispute the authority ofthe Kushan kings who continued to rule in and beyond the Indus basin...... Gupta Empire---the greatest in India since the days of Ashoka-extended in the north to the base of the mountains, but did not include Kashmir" (Oxford History of India)

or refer to A Short History of Pakistan and History of Pakistan

Also if you look at the map of the Gupta empire, also found in the main article or from a neutral reference, here and compare it to the map of asia from wiki's Asia page, here  you will notice that Pakistan is not part of the Geographic spread of the Empire. Khokhar (talk) 07:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

His son and chosen successor, Samudragupta, stands forth as a real man — scholar, poet, musician, and warrior. The early years of his vigorous reign were devoted to the thorough conquest of Upper India, that is to say, the country now known as the United Provinces of Agra and Oudh with the Central India Agency and Bengal, but not including the Panjab

Oxford Students History of India by Vincent Arthur Smith

Diagram in 'Huna invasions and the end of empire' section
The diagram shows the boundaries to extend beyond the Indus and Sutlej whereas the empire never extended past those points, hence the picture will be removed.

Following quot e from the Oxford history of India:

Samudragupta did not attempt to carry his arms across the Sutlej or to dispute the authority ofthe Kushan kings who continued to rule in and beyond the Indus basin...... Gupta Empire---the greatest in India since the days of Ashoka-extended in the north to the base of the mountains, but did not include Kashmir

hippos
there is a small reference to the military use of hippos in the military organization section of this article. there is no reference of this use of hippos in their article. please check acuracy.

military organization section has no quotes.

--Ben.M.DT (talk) 02:59, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Agreed - hippos cannot be 'tamed' for military use any more than a kangaroo could. In fact, hippos are extremely dangerous and I pity the poor slob ordered by his king to put such a policy into effect! (We lose more trainers that way .... ) HammerFilmFan (talk) 22:44, 22 June 2010 (UTC)HammerFilmsFan

"Empire"
Gupta Rajavamsa cannot be translated by "Gupta Empire". Vamsa means family, rajavamsa therefore something like "dynasty". Please use a Sanskrit dictionary now and then. GB — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.20.154.64 (talk) 13:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

King Oprah? Seriously?
This is why no one should ever cite wikipedia. Some anonymous vandal comes along and it and nearly three years later no one has noticed? Someone even went as far as to helpfully remove the link to Oprah Winfrey so that Oprah would point to the ancient king, not the talk show host. The worst part of this is that this ridiculous line about the mighty King Oprah has been copy-pasted in a number of places, including educational documents and a wikimedia book. How is it that a community comprised mostly of pedants and know-it-alls allowed this to pass unnoticed for so long? You can even find articles in wikipedia itself that directly refute the existence of king Oprah, invader of the Gupta empire.

The edit in question was: 23:50, 8 March 2009 76.105.237.36 (talk) (22,891 bytes) (→Huna invasions and the end of empire)

My absolute favorite part of this episode is that this vandal made three edits. The first two added obvious typos, which were caught within minutes. Afterwards he changed the name of an important Huna king to Oprah. And here we are three years later.

98.237.178.164 (talk) 09:28, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

fixed now -september 6, 2012   replaced king oprah with hepthalites   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.161.17 (talk) 14:00, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Gupta era
Please add a definition for Gupta era Aravind V R (talk) 10:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Can we use a picture of an actual Gupta temple, not a temple from a different time and place?.
I notice that the temple shown in the picture in the article is from Indonesia, and was built in the 9th century. The temple shown is neither from the time or place of the Gupta empire. A picture of an actual Gupta temple should be used. Although rare, there are some Gupta temples still around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.111.162.2 (talk) 00:35, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Faxian spelling
This article should either decide on a certain spelling of the Buddhist monk Faxian or inform the reader that Faxian is equivalent to Fa Xian and Fa Hsien and Fa Hien. As it stands now, things are slightly confusing.

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Golden Age of India
| This revision removed the references and statement about some scholars disputing that the Gupta Empire was "the Golden Age", claiming it was an "exaggerated claim. Only DN Jha refuted the claim of Golden Age, while most modern historians still maintain the claim." I reverted the change, but would like that user to know why and allow them an opportunity to open a dialogue about this.
 * I reverted the change because the wording of the article already implied that this is an idea only contested by some scholars. If the claim is to be made that this was "The Golden Age" of India, it is important to show all dissenting ideas and the scholars that wrote them in order to help provide a neutral point of view.  Denied Club  ❯❯❯ talk?   16:19, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Composition of Bhagavad Gita in Gupta Era?
I just read that " Dr.Ambedkar along with Buddhist scholar Kausambi places Bhagavad Gita in the period of the Gupta emperor Baladitya (early sixth century CE)." See https://swarajyamag.com/longform/dr-ambedkar-dr-elst-and-bhagavad-gita

Here also: The Bhagavad Gita: A Biography - Page 6 https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1400851971 Richard H. Davis - 2014 - Preview Most Sanskrit scholars agree that the Bhagavad Gita originated in northern India, sometime in the classical period between the reign of the Mauryan king Ashoka (r. 269–232 BCE) and Gupta dynasty (320–547 CE), as part of a much larger ...

And here: The Bhagavadgita: Doctrines and Contexts - Page 243 https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1139469053 Angelika Malinar - 2007 - Preview - More editions Some scholars, for instance, interpret the BhG as a 'synthesis' of different ideas and groups which mirrors a peaceful, prosperous society in which diversity has been harmonised, as was allegedly achieved under the Gupta dynasty (350–500 ...

Do other sources support this claim as well?

2604:2000:1103:A206:B173:415F:C641:6DDF (talk) 14:47, 23 October 2018 (UTC)R.E.D.

Gupta empire, greatest extent period chandragupta 2, 414 AD map
Dallas museum of art mentions the following map of gupta empire, i think its the greatest extent of gupta empire which should be mentioned in this article, its a great injustice that empires like empires of alexander, and mughal are shown at their greatest extend in their articles even though they were only to retain that for a very few years while gupta empire article has multiple maps none of them showing their greatest extent.

chandragupta II, 414 AD

map115.135.118.112 (talk) 07:49, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Founding of the Gupta Dynasty
The gupta dynasty was founded from the marriage of Princess kumaradevi and Chandragupta I am planning to add this in the article

https://books.google.com/books?id=yjStCgAAQBAJ&pg=PT75&dq=Gupta+origins&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5-az2mZfgAhWnIDQIHeyQDBYQ6AEIMzAC#v=onepage&q=Gupta%20origins&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sangitha rani111 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

New Gupta empire map
to the guy who made reverts,

i think your maps dont represent maximum extent of the Gupta empire, in any article related to empires, maximum extent is always shown, secondly your maps are not of the same quality as other shaded maps, i think my map should be replaced on the template while you can put detailed map below. 60.50.173.223 (talk) 19:57, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I did not undo your changes, but I'd like to point out that the extent depicted in your map may not be accurate. Your map depicts large parts of large parts of south-eastern India as well as north-western India as parts of the Gupta Empire at the same time. In reality, the south-eastern campaign of Samudragupta probably resulted in some tributary states rather than annexed territories, and this tributary status probably did not last during the reign of Chandragupta II when the empire is believed to expanded in the north-west. utcursch | talk 00:46, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * the map has been backed by a source, so it is not just a random map, here is another source of the map which is by dallas museum of arts. 60.50.173.223 (talk) 04:49, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Yes, but the extent depicted in these maps is not unanimously accepted among scholars. For example, see the sources of the current map.
 * Other than that, as RegentsPark (who undid your edit) states, the current map is more informative. And I agree -- it labels various places and neighbouring kingdoms, while the other map shows nothing more than three colors. utcursch | talk 15:51, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * ok, how about mentioning both maps? 60.50.173.223 (talk) 23:18, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * How about in the Chandragupta section (assuming the sourcing is good). Along with the caveats stated by Utcursch above - clearly stating that it includes tributary states. --regentspark (comment) 00:09, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

added a new template
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/reference/schwartzberg/ changed the area reference added

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2023.
72845ggg (talk) 10:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC) Please they are some few mistake

The Gupta dynasty is not ruled by vaishyas. Please remove the work contect or history 72845ggg (talk) 10:11, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:55, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Inaccurate Map of Guptas
The current map depicting the Gupta Empire is highly inaccurate. It erroneously includes parts of modern-day Pakistan, Afghanistan and southern India. During the same era, modern-day Punjab in Pakistan and Taxila was ruled by the Kidarites and local tribes, and Sindh was under the control of the Sassanids, succeeded by the Rai dynasty. Details regarding the southern conquests are scarce, and conflicts indicate that the southern kings were not directly under the suzerainty of the Guptas. The cited source for the map is highly flawed, as observed in the case of the Vijayanagar Empire as well. This Map Conflate different eras into One DeepstoneV (talk) 10:08, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

 * The Current map has sources. Can you please provide an alternative map with proper sources and explain why it is a better option? Thanks SKAG123 (talk) 17:13, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure But I gave the reason regarding the Current Map, which conflates different eras into one, The current Map shows Taxila and Punjab as Territory of Guptas But as same Era Kidarites ruled and Litrally same in the case of Sindh, at Same era Sassanids followed by Rai dynasty ruled it
 * Gupta empire Map.jpg
 * This is the Most accurate Map of Guptas DeepstoneV (talk) 19:33, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This map doesn’t have a source. The current map in the infobox is sourced SKAG123 (talk) 02:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I told current Map conflates different eras into one, Is there any Sold Evidence to Support that Guptas ruled Taxila and Sindh? Because at same era other dynasties were rulling DeepstoneV (talk) 18:48, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This map is totally inaccurate without any sources and there's no way we can change the current map to this. Well, even worse! Not only is this map inaccurate and without any sources, but it's also just a screenshot from a YouTube video [1 ], [2 ]. Definitely not changing the current map to this, and I hope you know YouTube videos aren't WP:RS. Based Kashmiri (talk) 10:41, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Current Map has alot of InAccuracies, and We have seen that in the case of Vijayangar empire's Map too.
 * Current Map shows Sindh as territory of Guptas But at same era Sindh was Province of the sassanid empire and Rai dynasty Preceded them in Sindh
 * DeepstoneV (talk) 18:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Look, there's no way we're going to change the current map that's accurate and well sourced to your screenshot from a YouTube video. I suggest you to take a look at WP:RS
 * The current map is of 420 CE and Rai Dynasty started in 489 CE.
 * Also Gupta Arts have been found in Sindh (circa 410 CE) so the current map is absolutely correct.
 * ""The terracotta figures of Mirpur Khas represent the Gupta idiom as it flourished in Sindh. (...) In the terracottas of Mirpur Khas, of which the Museum has a most representative collection, one may see the synthesis of Gandhara and Gupta traditions . Here the old sacrosanct forms of Gandhara are moulded in the Gupta character of nobility, restraint and spirituality and the result is very pleasing. The figures of the Buddha from Mirpur Khas show transformation from the Gandhara to Gupta idiom, which the figures of the donor and Kubera show well developed Gupta types.""

- Prince of Wales Museum of Western India Based Kashmiri (talk) 03:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This source conflates different eras into one DeepstoneV (talk) 17:01, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * What are you going on about? You asked for solid evidence of Gupta rule in Sindh, so I gave you sources of their influence there. Did you know that the Guptas extended till Sindh?
 * The above discussion enables us to describe the nature and extent of the empire of Samudra-gupta with an accuracy and fulness of details which are rare in ancient Indian history. It comprised nearly the whole of Northern India, with the exclu- sion of Kashmir, Western Punjab, Western Rajputāna, Sindh and Gujarat, together with the highlands of Chattisgarh and Orissa and a long stretch of territory along the eastern coast extending as far south as Chingleput and probably even further. Of these vast territories, a considerable portion of Northern India, more accurately defined above, was directly adminis- tered by the emperor through his own officials
 * Clearly you aren't an expert in this topic. You shouldn't spout off about things you know nothing about.
 * Based Kashmiri (talk) 18:06, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Your source is litrally depend upon arts, even a Indian art is found in Italy known as Rome Laxmi. This don't proves anything DeepstoneV (talk) 17:02, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Its actually Pompeii Lakshmi DeepstoneV (talk) 17:04, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * No unrelated and invalid arguments please. We won't edit the current map, which is properly sourced to your unsourced screenshot from YouTube. Do you even know what WP:RS is? Based Kashmiri (talk) 17:52, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There is litrally a article present on Sassanid Sindh Province Depend upon WP:RS and you are Giving some Art Sources that at same era Gupta ruled Sindh, Wow. DeepstoneV (talk) 19:19, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but we are not going to add your unsourced and fake map which is literally a screenshot from YouTube[1 ], [2 ]. Also, I already gave you sources regarding the Gupta's conquests of Sindh. Based Kashmiri (talk) 01:34, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's also been brought to my attention that you removed the "Gupta Empire section" from History of Sindh (3) in a highly biased manner. if you continue to engage in vandalism and removing WP:RS on pages related to the Gupta Empire and Sindh, I will report it to WP:ANI (Wikipedia: Administrators' Noticeboard/Incidents). This is your last warning. Based Kashmiri (talk) 02:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Wow, this is genuinely hilarious. Referring to everything as WP:RS (Wikipedia Reliable Source), and by the way, you can't even locate the context in most of those sources. Just observe the timeline to see how both the Guptas and Sassanids ruled simultaneously. This is nonsense, and Sitush was correct about Indian history. DeepstoneV (talk) 12:08, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Interesting, the edit by DeepstoneV which Based Kashmiri was talking about was reverted by brand new user User:Malik-Al-Hind who made the same argument, who also tries to overinflate the Gupta territory  just like brand new user Based Kashmiri and who makes the exact type of edits as Based Kashmiri. Certainly doesn't sound similar to the countless other new users . Also  - 4th-century Kalidasa is not WP:RS per WP:AGEMATTERS, WP:PST and WP:SCHOLARSHIP. HistoryofIran (talk) 12:51, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Even more interestingly there is another user who opposes DeepstoneV and isn't a brand new user. (9)
 * Tagging him @Flemmish Nietzsche. Based Kashmiri (talk) 14:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Nice whataboutism. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Ignore DeepstoneV's disruptive edits and just say Nice Whataboutism, so interesting. Based Kashmiri (talk) 14:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * And who are you to decide whose edits I should talk about? I'm currently talking about you and the recent edit warring that led to this page being protected. Feel free to respond to my first comment up above. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You are saying using Kalidasa as a source isn't WP:RS, But the cited sources use Ashwini Agarwal and Upinder Singh, Both of them are historians and they come in the category of WP:RS clearly. And they clearly talk about Kalidasa Praising Guptas for having conquered Oxus, Kambojas, And other 21 kingdoms in and outside India. Malik-Al-Hind (talk) 14:38, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Feel free to quote Ashwini Agarwal and Upinder Singh here then, what are they saying? Are they agreeing with Kalidasa? Or is this more WP:SYNTH? HistoryofIran (talk) 14:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The cited sources which are WP:RS talk about Kalidasa Praising Guptas for conquering 21 kingdoms in and Outside India, This included the Oxus valley, kambojas and bactria.
 * And that is what the lead said.
 * "The 4th-century CE Sanskrit poet Kalidasa credits the Guptas with having conquered about twenty-one kingdoms, both in and outside India, including the kingdoms of Persians, the Hunas, the Kambojas, tribes located in the west and east Oxus valleys, the Kinnaras, Kiratas, and others."
 * So there is nothing wrong with this. Since the cited sources clearly say what the lead section of the page says
 * Make sure to read Read what Ashwini Agarwal has said in the cited sources:
 * Ashvini agarwal in p-165-
 * "Trans-Indus region and from there he headed northwards, reached Bactria, where perhaps he had a battle with the Hūņas on the Oxus. This view remarkably tallies with Kālidāsa's account of Raghu's conquests of the north. His description seems to be based on a historical background and he seems to have combined the conquests of Samudragupta and Chandragupta II into that of the legendary Raghu"
 * Goyal is a Historian as well as well and see what he says about this: Goyal p-218- lt conclusively proves that if Kalidasa wrote the account of the digvijaya of Raghu on the basis of the actual facts provided by the military achievements of Samudragupta and Chandragupta II, he had completed the composition of the Raghuvamsa before the conquest of the Western India by Chandragupta II the Saka rule in the Westera India came to an end towards theclose of the reign of Chandragupta. Therefore, the composition of the Raghuvamsa may well have been over by c. 400 A. D.

It is a very significant clue, because as is generally admitted, the Raghuvamsa is by far one of the best and most mature works of Kalidasa.Malik-Al-Hind (talk) 15:26, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

 * So where is the part where they support what you added? . I'm still waiting. HistoryofIran (talk) 16:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ?!?!?! "Are they agreeing with Kalidasa" I don't get you. And what was that ? Please be sure about what you ask. Then I may be able to respond you. Malik-Al-Hind (talk) 17:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That was me clarifying an already simple question, yet you still failed to understand it. It's not rocket science. Are you going to address it? HistoryofIran (talk) 18:02, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * My first quote is just above your comment, Answering your question. Indeed it is not rocket science. Malik-Al-Hind (talk) 04:27, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sigh... okay, let's try one last time. This info you added, it's by reported by a person from the 4th-century, but you are claiming that the two modern historians Ashwini Agarwal and Upinder Singh are supporting this claim. So please cite the quote where they are supporting the following; "The 4th-century CE Sanskrit poet Kalidasa credits the Guptas with having conquered about twenty-one kingdoms, both in and outside India, including the kingdoms of Persians, the Hunas, the Kambojas, tribes located in the west and east Oxus valleys, the Kinnaras, Kiratas, and others." HistoryofIran (talk) 11:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I simply said the two Modern historians agree with the claim that Kalidasa Praises Guptas for having Conquered 21 Kingdoms In and Outside India Including Oxus valley, Kambojas, Balkh and kingdom of the persians. Which is obviously true if you simply click on the citation and check it.
 * But since it looks like rocket science to you, I am quoting him again.
 * Ashwini Agarwal in Pg 165 says:
 * "Trans-Indus Region and from there he headed towards northwards, reached Bactria, where perhaps he had a battle with the Hunas on the Oxus. This view remarkably tallies with Kalidasa's account of Raghu's conquest of the north. His description seems to based on a historical background and he seems to have combined the conquests of Samudragupta and Chandragupta II into that of the legendary Raghu." Malik-Al-Hind (talk) 15:39, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes it is "rocket science" because this quote in no way supports the above claim - the only part that would maybe do so is "perhaps had a battle with the Hunas on the Oxus", but it does not claim this battle was won and uses the word perhaps. If you would be so kind as to provide further great evidence that accurately and fully supports this claim, you are welcome to do so. I originally supported the "anti-deletion" side of this debate as these sources which stated the larger extent of the Guptas seemed at first to be reliable, however I have now yet to see that the sources actually support the claim. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 15:49, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * First of all the topic thread was about whether the Guptas ended upto Sindh or not. And obviously about the map of the Gupta Empire, Since @Based Kashmiri already provided sources stating that Gupta rule indeed extended upto Sindh while the current map of Guptas is well sourced and accurate and shouldn't be replaced with a map which is from a YouTube video, This topic thread should have already been closed. However, History of Iran then jumps in to change the topic, Just to defend DeepstoneV's disruptive edits on this page. Still I'd like to extend it further by providing more sources for Guptas defeating the hunas, Kambojas and Persians.

The account of the conquest of the North-Western region by Raghu is consonant with and supports our suggestion. According to Kalidasa, Persia could have been reached by a sea-route, but Raghu discarded it. He went by the land-rout and defeated the Persians in a fierce fighting. Thereafter, he moved northwards and vanquished the Hunas on the banks of the river Oxus. Then came the turn of the Kambojas who were unable to resist his valour and accepted his overlordship. - History of Imperial Guptas by SR Goyal pg 218-219

The poet begins his account of the north-western campaign of Raghu bystating that he set out to conquer the Persians (Parasikas) This shows that the primary object of Raghu was to crush the Parasikas. But after defeating them somewhere near Begram and conquering the adjoining regions it became imperative for the conqueror to proceed right north and pounce upon the Hunas on the Oxus. This proves that the association of the Hunas withthe Parasikas were so close that without conquering them the victory over the latter was quite meaningless. - Studies in Indian History And Civilization by Buddh Prakash pg-323

Just after defeating the Hunas on the Oxus Raghu conquered the Kambojas. As will be shown later, the Kambojas occupied the Badakhshan - Studies in Indian History And Civilization by Buddh Prakash pg-346.

Chandragupta II undertook an expedition across Vahlika (Balkh?). R.K. Mookerji asserts that Chandragupta II crossed the Sindhu (Indus) and its tributary rivers (the Jhelum, Chenab, Ravi, Beas and Sutlej rivers). This expedition was directed probably against the Huns or the Sassanids. Another objective of this campaign was to get access to the Central Asian and Afghanistan horses. - Warfare in pre British India by Kaushik Roy p-57.Malik-Al-Hind (talk) 20:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

 * And now you are citing different sources, which means you were misciting Ashwini Agarwal and Upinder Singh. Malik-Al-Hind is no doubt misusing those sources as well or something similar. If someone could check it, that would be appreciated. And I'm not defending anyone. Funny, you argue just like a certain someone HistoryofIran (talk) 12:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Interesting, the last quote shows uncertainty too. And its the exact same quote misuse by a certain someone… more evidence for the ANI, we love it. HistoryofIran (talk) 07:50, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gupta Empire


text:
Slapstick (comics)

Slapstick (Steve Harmon) is a fictional superhero appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He resembles an animated clown and has the abilities of a slapstick cartoon character, such as one from Looney Tunes, including warping reality to match that of an animated cartoon.

Publication history
Slapstick debuted November 1992 in The Awesome Slapstick #1 and was created by writer Len Kaminski and artist James Fry. Afterwards, he made a notable appearance with the New Warriors in Marvel Comics Presents and was unseen until a "Civil War" cameo in She-Hulk. He also regularly appeared in Avengers: The Initiative as a recruit.

In 2015, Slapstick became a regular member of the Mercs for Money series. In 2017, he got a second solo series created by Reilly Brown, Fred Van Lente and Diego Olortegui that lasted six issues.

In Slapstick Vol. 2 Issue 4, his full name was revealed to be Steven Winsor McCay Harmon, his middle name being a reference to the animator Winsor McCay.

Fictional character biography
Slapstick was originally junior high school class clown Steve Harmon, from New York City. In a plan to get back at his archrival Winston, Steve dresses as a clown to blend into the crowd at a strange new carnival.

Before Steve could enact his plan, Winston and his date, Heather, were kidnapped by several clowns. Steve picks up a mallet as a weapon and follows them. The group enters the carnival funhouse and enters a portal disguised as a mirror. As it was closing, Steve follows.

At the moment of entry, an energy burst races across Steve's world, alerting the senses of several beings, such as Doctor Strange, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man and Howard the Duck.

His molecules stretch across 3741 dimensions and Steve ends up in the realm of the Scientist Supreme of Dimension X (who resembles Groucho Marx). The scientist helps Steve master his new form, a body composed of living unstable molecules dubbed Electroplasm. This essentially makes him a living cartoon character. The scientist, who had been ousted from his position by the Overlord, theorizes that Steve had come to his new form because he was slightly out of synch when entering the funhouse portal.

Using his new powers and a map the scientist had, Steve freed many captive Earthlings from the evil Clowns from Dimension X and their ruler, the Overlord. It is learned that this is what the scientist had intended all along. The Overlord's plan had been to brainwash Earthlings enough so their belief would be sufficient to give Overlord whatever he desired. The Overlord's plans were foiled when the belief that held up his castle gave way as the humans regained their right minds. The castle crashes. The captured humans run to the portal, followed quickly by the monstrous clowns. Steve destroys the mirror, eradicating the clown's influence on this reality.

Minutes afterward, Steve is found by his best friend, Mike Peterson, who agrees to assist him.

Other enemies
Steve has other villains to confront: a Punisher copycat called the Overkiller attacks Steve because he thinks he is a mutant (the mutant was Dr. Denton). The two fight in a mall, destroying most of it. Steve ends the fight by literally kissing Overkiller and then walloping him while the man reacts with disgust. Spider-Man assists with the battle. Slapstick also battled the super smart, preteen Dr. Denton and Teddy, and rescued Barbara Halsey. There was also a homeless man, the Neutron Bum, with the power to cause explosions. Despite the gathering of dozens of superheroes willing and planning to fight the man (including Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Speedball, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers and the New Warriors), Slapstick simply neutralizes the situation by getting Neutron Bum what he had been yelling for all along — a cup of coffee — and then blindsiding the man from behind while he's drinking it.

He is a friend of Speedball of the New Warriors and is described as "The hero who doesn't fight crime but rather plays cruel tricks on it."

Later, Slapstick teamed up with the New Warriors to fight Dr. Yesterday, partly because doing so would impress women. It has been established that at some point prior to Justice and Firestar leaving the New Warriors to become Avengers, Slapstick and Ultra Girl are made official members of the Warriors and given communicators, after helping the team stop a Badoon invasion.

Civil War
During the Civil War storyline, Slapstick helps the surviving members of the New Warriors find Hindsight Lad, the young man and former Warrior responsible for outing the secret identities of past Warriors and allies to the public. LaFroyge was stopped, arrested by the authorities, before Slapstick's identity was made public.

The Initiative
Slapstick is later seen on the bus of new recruits arriving at Camp Hammond as part of the Initiative training program. He is later seen, with other heroes, confronting Ben Grimm as part of a training mission.

Slapstick and other Camp Hammond members are sent out as crowd control when the Hulk and his Warbound crew leads an attack on New York. He is assigned morale support for the evacuating citizens under command of the Avenger Triathlon. A fellow recruit, Rage leads a rebellion against the crowd support mission in order to go confront the Hulk. Slapstick joins in. His team is swiftly defeated by the Hulk's forces.

The recruits are imprisoned by Hulk's forces in Madison Square Garden and neutralized with power-sapping technology. They are rescued by black ops forces associated with the Camp.

Later it is Slapstick who attacks and almost kills Gauntlet out of loyalty to the New Warriors, in retaliation for Gauntlet's use of the team's name as an insult. He has since tried to admit this to his teammates but is always comically interrupted. He later comes in possession of a device containing the memory and personality of KIA, the villainous clone of Michael Van Patrick, and decides to keep it for further use.

Slapstick and several other former New Warriors have recently been recruited by Justice and apparently deserted from the Initiative, after Justice finds evidence of shady activities within the organization. After helping stop KIA's rampage, this new group officially quits the Initiative, intending to act as a form of independent oversight for the program. As legally registered heroes, they are free to act unless they break the law while doing so. When asked to change to his less conspicuous normal form, Slapstick admits that he has not done so since joining the Initiative, and claims that the mechanism that activates the change no longer works.

He later returned to Camp Hammond with the team, now calling themselves the New Warriors again, and battled Ragnarok, the cyborg clone of Thor. Slapstick is also a noted presence in the multi-hero effort to rebuild New York after the events of World War Hulk.

Fear Itself
During the Fear Itself storyline, Slapstick appears at a meeting held by Prodigy regarding magical hammers that have crashed into the earth. He later joins forces with other heroes to battle the Worthy.

Mercs for Money
When Deadpool founded his Mercs for Money, he employed the services of Slapstick, among numerous other vigilantes, to pose as him in order to extend his reach across the globe. While striving to do good, like his new colleagues, Slapstick has severe emotional problems due to an inability to change back to his human form.

Powers and abilities
As Slapstick, Steve Harmon's body is made out of Electroplasm after exposure to an unknown alien device, which makes him indestructible. Any damage that he takes can be immediately shaken off, as he possesses superhuman durability and virtually unlimited physical malleability in the manner of an animated slapstick cartoon character. Slapstick also possesses superhuman agility and reflexes. It has been shown that the molecular bonds of the Electroplasm can be disrupted by a counter charge of a specific frequency of energy, reducing Slapstick to an immobile "puddle"; however, another energy charge can restore him to "normal".

In addition, Slapstick gets temporarily stronger when electrocuted. However, he must have a consistent feed of electricity to maintain this strength.

Slapstick's gloves also possess alien technology. His left glove has a transformation inducer that allows him to transform to and from Slapstick to his normal Steve Harmon form. His right glove is a materializer that contains an extra-dimensionally sub-spacial storage pocket, which functions similar to cartoon hammerspace, and allows him to store items seemingly nowhere. He can access these items by making a special gesture with that hand, though to anyone observing it would appear he is pulling them out of thin air. He usually keeps a large cartoon-ish mallet in this space. Recent accounts have shown similar pockets in the pants of his costume. Objects stored in these pockets are undetectable by conventional means; for example, Slapstick carried his New Warriors communicator, left forgotten in a pants pocket, into Camp Hammond without any of the base's security measures detecting it.

Slapstick is an experienced practical joker, with a highly developed bizarre sense of humor.

It has been noted that Steve Harmon has no genitalia in his Slapstick form, much to his disappointment.

Mutant X
In the alternate universe of Mutant X (Earth-1298 in the Marvel Comics Multiverse), Slapstick was a member of a group of supernatural heroes called the Lethal Legion (no connection to the Earth-616 villain group). Little is known about this version of the character, and why he joined the team. He was killed by the Goblin Queen, disguised as the Beyonder.

In other media
Slapstick makes a cameo appearance in Deadpool's ending in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

title: Slapstick (comics)


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Linguistic demography

Linguistic demography is the statistical study of languages among all populations. Estimating the number of speakers of a given language is not straightforward, and various estimates may diverge considerably. This is first of all due to the question of defining "language" vs. "dialect". Identification of varieties as a single language or as distinct languages is often based on ethnic, cultural, or political considerations rather than mutual intelligibility. The second difficulty is multilingualism, complicating the definition of "native language". Finally, in many countries, insufficient census data add to the difficulties.

Demolinguistics is a branch of Sociology of language observing linguistic trends as affected by population distribution and redistribution and by the status of societies.

Most spoken languages
The following table compares the estimates of Comrie (1998) and  Weber (1997) (number of native speakers in millions). Also given are the estimates of SIL Ethnologue (2005). Comparing estimates that do not date to the same year is problematic due to the 1.14% per year growth of world population (with significant regional differences).

This table shows that for the world's largest languages, it is impossible to give an estimate of the number of native speakers with a certainty better than maybe 10% or 20% or so.

Literature

 * Johanna Nichols, Linguistic Diversity in Space and Time, University of Chicago Press (1992), ISBN 978-0-226-58056-2.
 * David I. Kertzer and Dominique Arel (eds.), Census and Indentiry : The Politics of Race, Ethnicity, and Language in National Censuses, ISBN 978-0-521-80823-1.
 * Jacques Pohl, Demolinguistics and Language Problems (1972).
 * H. Kloss, G. McConnell (eds.), Linguistic Composition of the Nations of the World vol. 2, North America, Quebec (1974–1984).

title: Linguistic demography


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Talk:La Ferme Célébrités 2

- This page had been listed for speedy deletion, but does not meet the criteria. It seems relevent enough for me, but someone may wish to consider listing it for votes for deletion. Gblaz 21:02, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Totally redundant with article La Ferme Célébrités

title: Talk:La Ferme Célébrités 2


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List of WCW World Tag Team Champions

The WCW World Tag Team Championship was a professional wrestling World Tag Team Championship contested for in World Championship Wrestling (WCW). Originally, WCW was a member of the National Wrestling Alliance (NWA), which had numerous member promotions. The NWA operated many tag team championships before one prime tag team title was established in 1982. One of those titles was the NWA World Tag Team Championship, which was operated by the NWA member Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling (MACW), the predecessor of WCW. The championship was created by MACW in 1975.

In January 1991, WCW (the former MACW after merging with Championship Wrestling from Georgia in 1985) began the process of withdrawing as a member of the NWA to become an independent promotion, thus the name of the title was changed to the WCW World Tag Team Championship. On July 12, 1992, the WCW World Tag Team Championship was unified with the NWA World Tag Team Championship, which was created earlier that year by the NWA as its prime tag team championship. In September 1993, WCW's withdrawal from the NWA was made official, and the NWA World Tag Team Championship was returned to the NWA; the title was reactivated by the NWA in 1995.

In March 2001, all WCW assets were purchased by the then World Wrestling Federation (WWF) after AOL/Time Warner discontinued their involvement in wrestling programming. After the purchase, the WWF continued the use of the championship as a part of a storyline called The Invasion, which involved a rivalry between former WCW wrestlers and original WWF wrestlers before the purchase of WCW.

Title reigns were determined either by professional wrestling matches with different tag teams, a duo of wrestlers, involved in pre-existing scripted feuds, plots and storylines or were awarded the title due to scripted circumstances. Wrestlers were portrayed as either villains or fan favorites as they followed a series of tension-building events, which culminated in a wrestling match or series of matches for the championship. The inaugural champions, under the NWA, were The Minnesota Wrecking Crew (Gene Anderson and Ole Anderson), who were announced to have won the titles after winning a tournament in January 1975.

Before the promotion's purchase, the final champions recognized by WCW were Sean O' Haire and Chuck Palumbo; they were also the first champions under the titles operation in the WWF. On November 18, 2001, the championship was deactivated after its use in the Invasion storyline. The title was unified with the WWF Tag Team Championship, and the final champions recognized by the WWF, were The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray Dudley and D-Von Dudley). The title was won in Australia, Canada, Germany, and the United States. Harlem Heat (Booker T and Stevie Ray) held the most reigns as a tag team (10), and Booker T held the most individual reigns (11), which is the same number of times the title was vacated. At 282 days, Doom's reign during WCW's NWA withdrawal was the longest in the championship's history. Overall, there were 143 title reigns.

title: List of WCW World Tag Team Champions


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Talk:List of languages by number of native speakers

Numbers Mashreqi Arabic/Eastern Arabic native speakers?
I have ben thinking about lately, and I am not speaking here about the number of speakers of Modern Standard Arabic, that indeed, the eastern Arabic languages/dialects are mutually intelligible. I see people from Egypt conversing with people from Syria without having any problem. Also, the Peninsular Arabic dialects ara intelligible with the languages in the eastern branch of the spoken Arabic language. Therefore, I disagree with this map: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/btwej0/part_two_languages_that_are_secretly_different/ I do believe that Sudanese and Egyptian Arabic should be added to the Mashreqi Arabic language, since their speakers do not need to switch into Modern Standard Arabic, nor they need to necessarily have been previously exposed to the variety they are listening to. That is, a Sudanese speaker does not have any major problem understanding an iraqi speaker and viceversa. I am of course open to read about other people´s opinions, since the Arabic Dilectology is a topic that interests me a lot.

So, the number of native speakers of mashreqi Arabic would be 282 million, or 300 according to this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashriqi_Arabic, making it the fifth most spoken native language in the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.241.34.248 (talk) 09:47, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

numbers Persian vs. Turkish
Everyone in Iran speaks Persian fluently. I am ethnically Azeri from Iran and I'd argue that most speak it even better than their supposed "native tongue" because it is the only language of education and many also prefer to use it in daily life. What is weird about that article is that for Turkish this differentiation wasn't done, and all Kurds, Laz, Zaza, etc. in Turkey were lumped together with the ethnic Turks, otherwise the number which is stated (84 million) makes no sense because there are by far not even 84 million Turks in the world. Why?

Furthermore it makes absolutely no sense that is was separately listed as "Iranian Persian" since all Persian variants are fully mutually intelligible. They are not separate languages. Only major difference is that in Tajikistan another script is used. In Iran and Afghanistan orthography, etc. is exactly the same. But still, even if an Iranian and a Tajik meet who were never exposed to each others dialects, everybody would understand each other with absolutely no problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.233.35.210 (talk) 23:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2023
There is a typo in the first sentence; they likely meant to write “ranked,” not “raked.” 166.198.34.57 (talk) 18:31, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks. Kanguole 19:03, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Kannada is not yet ranked even wiki itself marked 60+ millions of speakers
Even Wiki page itself marks kannada speaking numbers are more than 60 million, kannada is not listed in the rank table in the page we are talking about. ಹಂಸರವಿನಿತ್ಯಾ (talk) 19:47, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source. This article builds on Ethnologue. If you think Ethnologue is incorrect, I agree with you - but the consensus is to use it as the source for this article. Jeppiz (talk) 20:00, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

THIS ARTICLE IS NONSENSE : FRENCH SHOULD BE IN THE TOP 5 AND IS NOT EVEN LISTED HERE
https://www.berlitz.com/blog/most-spoken-languages-world

https://www.berlitz.com/blog/french-speaking-countries

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:fa49:ce40:8d00:10af:8a10:ea09:916c (talk • contribs) 12:15, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Even according to this source, French has "First language speakers: 79.9 million", which is less than several of the other languages listed, and some not listed. For comparisons of total speakers, see List of languages by total number of speakers. Kanguole 12:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Pashto
Pashto is a language which is more than 100 million people’s speaking 2A02:1811:D30:9C00:F86D:AF67:5A43:3EBE (talk) 19:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


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User:Mseames

Introduction
I usually come to Wikipedia to look up crap and always end up editing and proofreading. I tend to edit the articles written by people whose first language is not English.

I'm still working on this page, so forgive me while I construct it. I am never satisfied with anything so, do not be surprised to find numerous changes to my page. If others make changes to my page that I don't like, I will simply revert or delete the changes. I also enjoy the tasks of translating articles. I have unofficially appointed myself as the birthday monitor, researching correct birth dates. I want every possible biography to have an included birth date.

And maybe one day I will finally figure out those God damned userboxers.

Basics
I am a 30 year old woman from the United States of America. I am a Taurus and born in the year of the Dragon. I am semi-fluent in Spanish, French, and Italian. I am also learning German, Portuguese and Dutch. I am contemplating learning other languages as well. I enjoy communicating with people from across the world.

My Philosophy on Life
I believe there are a few fundamental things that should be guaranteed each person in this life and they are: Life, Liberty, and Freedom. And, I believe every person should have a great biography, whether it be a nobody or a famous person/celebrity. :)

Interests/Loves
Philosophy, Languages, Linguistics, Geology, Architecture, Archeology, Computers, the Environment, Medicine, Pathology, Forensics, Spirituality, Eastern and Western Astrology, Ethnic Cuisine, Writing, Reading, Poetry, Pop Culture, Politics, Marketing, and Journalism.

Hates
Narrow-minded, bigoted, fanatical people, conformity, the status quo, organized religion, double standards, an "us against them" mentality, suppression of the media, overt corporate control, narcissists, know-it-alls, control freaks, people who can't face reality, megalomaniacs, and snobs. And I feel I must make a special note that I hate Pepsi and coffee!

title: User:Mseames


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Product Support Services

Product Support Services, more commonly referred to as PSS, is the Microsoft business unit with primary responsibility for responding to end-user and partner requests for assistance with the company's products and services.

Feedback and product development
PSS also gives feedback to Microsoft development groups for use in the development of future products or product features. The Windows 2000 recovery console, for instance, was developed in large part to address difficulty that PSS agents had when attempting to assist customers with non-functional Windows NT installations. Additionally, PSS identifies major issues with products, and works with the responsible product teams in order to create "hotfixes" for these issues, and/or make sure that the issues are addressed in service packs or future product versions. It is a type of Call Center.

Support options
PSS offers a wide variety of support options, with varying prices. Options include assistance with:
 * Basic usage
 * "Break-fix" support
 * Security patch installation
 * Onsite and offsite consulting

Offices
PSS has major offices worldwide, including:
 * Las Colinas, Texas, United States
 * Issaquah, Washington, United States
 * Charlotte, North Carolina, United States
 * Embassy Golf Links, Bangalore, India

title: Product Support Services


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Stella (United States coin)

The United States four dollar coin, also officially called a Stella, is a unit of currency equivalent to four United States dollars.

It was originally minted as a coin tied to Latin Monetary Union standards, in preparation for possible U.S. entry to the Union. Two varieties of the Stella were made: Liberty with flowing hair, designed by Charles E. Barber, and with coiled hair, designed by George T. Morgan. The flowing hair variety is the most commonly seen variety. Even though the coin was designed as a pattern coin, similar to the Gobrecht dollar, many catalogs list the coin as a regular-issue item.

History
The Stella was a pattern coin produced to explore the possibility of joining the Latin Monetary Union (LMU); these patterns were produced in 1879 and 1880 at the urging of John A. Kasson, a former chairman of the United States House Committee on Coinage, Weights, and Measures. The Stella was meant to contain a quantity of precious metal similar to that of the standard LMU gold piece, the twenty-franc Napoleon minted in France, Switzerland, and other LMU countries. However, the composition and weight of the Stella was not a precise match to the LMU standard: the total weight was 7 grams (rather than 6.45 grams), the gold content was 6 grams of fine gold (rather than 5.81 grams), and the coins were only .857 fine (rather than .900).

Two different designs obverse were produced: one with flowing hair; in the other the hair is coiled. Both bear the same inscription: "★6★G★.3★S★.7★C★7★G★R★A★M★S★" (the five-pointed glyph variant of the "★" is used) to indicate the metallic content of the coin, and the date. The reverse star had the inscriptions ONE STELLA and 400 CENTS, while the reverse rim had the legends UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and FOUR DOL., and circling the star but between its points were the legends E PLURIBUS UNUM ("Out of many, one") and DEO EST GLORIA ("To God is the glory").

The coin and the prospect of joining the Latin Monetary Union were rejected by Congress, but not before several hundred restrikes of the Barber flowing hair design had been produced and sold to Congressmen at the cost of production. These later became a source of scandal when it was noted that a number of them ended up as jewelry pieces adorning the necks of madams operating some of Washington's most infamous bordellos. Five examples of a pattern quintuple stella denominated at 20 dollars were produced in 1879 as well. These coins used a modified version of the then-current Liberty Head (Coronet) design of the double eagle, replacing the stars on the obverse with "★30★G★1.5★S★3.5★C★35★G★R★A★M★S★", and the motto IN GOD WE TRUST on the reverse with the same DEO EST GLORIA found on the reverse of the stella.

Only 425 examples of the Stella were made. All 1880 coins are rare; 25 examples are known.

title: Stella (United States coin)


text: Category:Subdivisions of Mongolia

title: Category:Subdivisions of Mongolia


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Sabbat (English band)

Sabbat were an English thrash metal band from Nottingham consisting of Martin Walkyier (vocals), Andy Sneap (guitars), Simon Jones (guitars), Frazer Craske (bass) and Simon Negus (drums). They are considered one of the "big four" of British thrash metal along with Acid Reign, Onslaught and Xentrix, who were all responsible for developing and popularizing the country's thrash metal scene in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Over their initial six-year run Sabbat released three studio albums, four demos, two split singles/compilation albums, two singles and a live VHS. In 1988, the band released their debut album History of a Time to Come, which earned them further recognition. Their next album, Dreamweaver (Reflections of Our Yesterdays) (1989), was also critically acclaimed. Shortly after the release of Mourning Has Broken (1991), tensions with the band began to surface, most of them revolved around money and Sabbat disbanded as a result. After an attempted reunion in 2001 that was blocked by Sneap, the original Sabbat lineup reunited in 2006. In December of that year they performed together for the first time in sixteen years at five different venues in England. One was a warm-up gig in Nottingham, the other four in support of Cradle of Filth. The band has continued to perform live around the world but has not released any new material. In a January 2014 interview with Decibel magazine Andy Sneap confirmed  that Sabbat had once again split-up.

Early history (1985–1986)
The origins of the band began in June 1985 with a band called Hydra. Future Sabbat vocalist Martin Walkyier and bassist Frazer Craske were members of Hydra as was Andy Sneap who joined the band as a second guitarist. Former Striptease and Fallen Angel drummer Simon Negus' arrival and replacement of Mark Daley as well as the departure of original guitarist Adam Ferman coincided with a name change to Sabbat.

Andy Sneap: "'Let me shed a bit of light on things here. Martin and Frazer had this band called Hydra back in 84/85. The most impressive thing about the band was the fact that Frazer had already printed some 2 colour t shirts and he had a car! I met Frazer at a local Hell gig in Long Eaton and it turned out they were thinking of getting a second guitarist. I heard a tape (which I still have, it's priceless) of a show they did in a pub in Nottingham and decided to have a jam as I was wanting to get some experience playing, after all I was the ripe old age of 15. Hell, two weeks after I joined, the original guitarist quit (i think this was in the cards) and the drummer left (thankfully) after we did our first demo a couple of months later, I think this was due to me having a go at his girlfriend in the studio (you see: good work ethic back then!) It was Tim Bowler (the drummer from Hell) who introduced us to Simon Negus. The name Sabbat came from a book on witchcraft but I actually found some old school books of mine with ideas doodled on them so I'm sure I had some doing in suggesting it. I do remember we liked the way the word looked in the scrawly type of writing so we went with it. Yeah the flexi disc for white dwarf was an odd one, John Blanche, the art editor painted our first cover so it all came about quite easy. It does sound shockingly bad though.'"

After rehearsing for nearly a year they released the Fragments of a Faith Forgotten demo which was well received and with immediate interest from several record companies and a two-page spread in Kerrang! magazine.

Andy Sneap:

"'Martin and Frazer were really into Venom, I was really into Mercyful Fate and Slayer. I remember the day we recorded Fragments Frazer had that Venom, Exodus and Slayer video from New York and we decided that's totally what we wanted to be doing.' 'We did Fragments of a Faith Forgotten on a little four track, we did it in two afternoons just threw it down. We didn't think much about it but off that we got a deal with Noise, two pages in Kerrang! and a Radio One session. It just snowballed. After the session the label were even more interested and then we got the Kerrang! cover after that.'"

After releasing a Warhammer-inspired flexi-disc on the front cover of White Dwarf magazine, the band penned a deal with German Noise Records in mid-1987. Signing had previously been delayed because Andy Sneap was under 18 years of age and not legally an adult.

Further recognition (1987–1990)
In September 1987, the band travelled to Hanover, Germany to record their debut album, History of a Time to Come (1988). This generated much media attention amongst journalists and fans alike for its unique lyrical approach and its difference to the "Big 4" approach at the time during the 1980s metal scene.

The second album Dreamweaver (Reflections of Our Yesterdays) (1989), was a conceptual album, based on the book The Way of Wyrd, by Brian Bates. The album demonstrated Walkyier's deep-held beliefs in Wyrdism, Anglo-Saxon spirituality, Celtic mysticism and paganism.

Fraser Craske: "'Well, we made the decision after our European tour [to add a second guitarist]. We had taken Richard Scott with us on tour for the extra sound and it had really worked out great. But Richard said he wouldn't join us full time because he wanted to continue with his other band, but we had to get another guitarist because of the improvement in the sound.'"

The introduction of new guitarist "Jack Hammer" – Simon Jones – made a vast improvement on the guitar attack, as acknowledged by Andy Sneap, in his interview with Renee Ackerman of Rockworldtv at his back stage studios in 2007.

Jack, as he was known professionally prior to joining Sabbat, and indeed is still referred to as in the band, previously played in Holosade, and was brought in midway through the recording of Dreamweaver as a rhythm and lead guitarist to complement Sneap's contribution.

Breakup (1991–2000)
Tensions within the band began to mount, most of them revolved around money. The band were developing a very good following and selling a lot of merchandise, however they were victims of poor management and with a label (Noise) that did not seem to care what the band did. Martin Walkyier recalled: "'With the Noise contract, people were telling us 'Don't sign it,' but we did. Bands who were doing well at the time - Celtic Frost, Helloween, Kreator - were all on Noise. We had complete artistic freedom, but not for the right reasons. It was because they didn't give a flying fuck.'"

The band almost split up during the Dreamweaver sessions, but re-grouped to finalise the recording and move on and accept their differences. Andy Sneap observes with hindsight in interviews that it is great that he and Martin Walkyier were able to function within Sabbat again without arguing about money, musical direction and a feud he and Martin experienced.

Martin Walkyier: "'There are stories that I quit Sabbat because the rest of the band didn't like my pagan lyrics. That's not true. All of us shared an interest in paganism. The paganism was never a problem; I was always left to get on with the lyrics the best way I saw fit. No, the truth was that I could see that the music was going to get even more complex. Andy was writing 11 minute musical epics and I couldn't even begin to see how I'd write lyrics for something like that. I wanted to bring in other musical styles, to bring in violins for instance. That would never have worked with Sabbat.'"

Martin Walkyier commented in late 2006 that Sabbat were in severe financial distress in 1989 and that he was living on government state benefits, such was the stark financial situation the band faced. Walkyier commented that he felt that they were becoming "like Rush" due to the overtly technical nature and length of their songs – combined, these issues forced tensions within the band.

Martin Walkyier: "'All the things that went wrong with Sabbat in the old days were really nothing to do with me and Andy Sneap, even though we had our disagreements in the days when we were young. That was largely to do with record labels and management and things that were happening around us – the fact that we were selling hod-loads of records and not actually seeing any money at all and having to live on benefits at the time."

First to jump ship was guitarist Simon Jones during their 1989 UK Dreamweaver tour with British thrashers Xentrix supporting. He left the band only moments before the gig at Sheffield University refectory on 15 November 1989, Sabbat did finish the gig though with just Andy Sneap on guitar. Andy Sneap has stated that this was a drink related departure and Jones himself has said he regrets his departure in a recent video on Andy Sneap's Myspace site.

Guitarist Neil Watson was brought in for guitar duties, and with only two weeks to learn all of the tracks, appears on the live video The End of the Beginning. Walkyier left in 1990 along with Craske, with Walkyier going off to form Skyclad. Fraser Craske left the music industry completely at this time. Andy Sneap and Simon Negus overhauled the band and brought in vocalist Richie Desmond and bassist Wayne Banks. In 1991, they released Mourning Has Broken, but it did not go down well with fans or critics and the band performed a final show in Derby soon after, then shortly after, split up.

In Terrorizer (No. 152, Xmas 2006), Andy Sneap stated: "(Emphatically) 'I don't listen to this (Mourning Has Broken). There is some mad guitar playing on there, some of the shredding is ridiculous, but it sounds thrown together, which is why it shouldn't have had the Sabbat name on it.'"

Simon Negus went on to join a band called the Glory Boys. Andy Sneap and Wayne Banks went on to form the group Godsend. Andy Sneap is now best known as a successful Grammy winning producer with over 100 albums produced at his Backstage Recording studios in rural Derbyshire.

Unofficial reunion (2001–2003)
Martin Walkyier initially wanted to re-form the band as Sabbat in 2001 with Fraser Craske and Simon Jones, however, this was blocked by Andy Sneap at the time.

Andy Sneap: "'The way I originally heard about (the reunion) was from one of the guys at Earache (Records), who called me up to ask me about it. I knew nothing about it so I called Martin to ask him about it. The conversation got a little heated and I explained they couldn't do it under the name SABBAT as both he and (bassist) Frazer quit, leaving me and (drummer) Simon (Negus) with a lot of debts and financial problems to clear up. This was the reason we carried on as SABBAT and did a third album. Obviously we wanted the new line up to work out but it didn't ... simple as that. What it came down to though was Simon Negus and myself, in theory, own the business and name as they left. If you left your employee, you couldn't go and start that business somewhere else under the same name.'"

Walkyier, Jones and Craske performed under the name Return to the Sabbat for 2001–2003, Skyclad drummer Jay Graham played on drums, after Simon Jones left (replaced by Andy Newby), the band continued for a while playing at Bloodstock indoor festival and a gig in Camden, London after which Return to the Sabbat disbanded.

Official reunion (2006–2011)
In 2006, the band re-united with the Dreamweaver line-up to support Cradle of Filth on their UK tour in December 2006 at four different venues.

A warmup gig for this short tour was played at The Rig in Nottingham, England, on Saturday 16 December 2006, and as such was the first time since 1989 that the Dreamweaver line-up had played live together. They received much press attention and rave reviews for their support slot and confirmed that were to release their first two albums in a remastered format with additional bonus material.

They then played festival appearances at the Keep It True Festival, Germany (15 April 2007) and the Day of Darkness festival in Co. Laois, Ireland, which took place on the 6 and 7 July 2007.

Frazer Craske left Sabbat once again, for personal and work related reasons. He was replaced at the D.O.D. festival by Gizz Butt.

Simon Jones from official Sabbat website, January 2008: "'First up was the Keep It True Fest', southern Germany April 14th. If anyone can recall, spring 2007 was particularly warm and boy we sweated a few pounds off thrashing to a sold out venue. It was great to share the bill with Laaz Rocket and Diamond Head too. After this gig Frazer broke the news that he wouldn't be doing any more gigs. Gizz Butt would take his place from now on. There was no pressure laid on Frazer; it was his decision and the rest of us respected it, after all we had got back together to play metal and enjoy it. If it wasn't working for him then so be it. Miraculously Gizz breathed new life into Sabbat as a band and brought a new perspective to the songs.'"

Andy Sneap and Martin Walkyier said in interviews that the reunion was "a bit of fun" and there was no long term plan. On 27 February 2007, Sabbat re-released History of a Time to Come and Dreamweaver. The re-releases feature new packaging, bonus live tracks, and a remastered sound. Sabbat's final album, 1991's Mourning Has Broken, was not re-released.

In 2010, the band went into hiatus, before finally splitting up once again. Inevitably, Martin and Andy were to fall out, once again, very publicly in a Facebook argument.

In a January 2014 interview with Decibel magazine, Andy Sneap confirmed that Sabbat were no more. One of the reasons for this break up was reportedly due to a feud between Sneap and Walkyier.

Andy Sneap said in 2014 to the "Talking Bollocks" podcast, that Sabbat is over and he is happier in his current band, Hell, doing what he wants to do, and it is better if he and Martin "do their own thing." Sneap joined Judas Priest in February 2018 as a touring guitarist, filling in for Glenn Tipton, who had recently been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.

Musical style and lyrics
Sabbat were initially labelled as "thrash" and "satanic" in the Midlands metal scene. Fraser Craske: "We're not Satanists. It's more theatrical. We're interested in religion and philosophy and it follows that we write tracks about things like that." The band's early lyrics were "primarily Satanic or [...] influenced by the Occult in some way"; in Walkyier's interpretation, Satanism "doesn't say 'let's go out and kill people' or anything like that", referring to The Satanic Bible which has "nothing to do with sacrifice" but with a selfish outlook. Walkyier sees Satanism as a rebellion against orthodox Christianity. As he considers Satan and the Devil to be "in a lots of ways [...] a bogeyman invented by the Christians" to make people follow them, and "started to look more into the old religion of Europe [...], and that's sort of where my... my kind of personal beliefs lie really".

The late Dave G. Halliday was the singer/guitarist from the band Hell, the Derbyshire band who in the mid-1980s were a big influence upon and inspiration for Sabbat.

Andy Sneap: "'We are heavily influenced by Hell and don't mind admitting it' Andy says with obvious admiration. 'The singer even taught me how to play guitar! We're not a deliberate copycat of Hell in any way though. They were a great band and it's a mystery to me why they never got anywhere. To be compared to them we don't mind in the least, we would take it more as an honour than anything. We've just done a charity show at Trent Poly dedicated to Hell's guitarist Dave Halliday who committed suicide in January. All the money went to his favourite charity, Cancer Research.'"

Martin Walkyier has left a fitting tribute to Dave G. Halliday within the sleeve notes of 2006 The Clan Destined release, In the Big Ending, which reads: "'These recordings are dedicated to the memory of Dave G Halliday. A man who was literally decades ahead of his time, but who tragically never had the chance to witness the enormous & positive influence he had upon the worldwide Metal scene. Whilst i still have breath in my body, you will never be forgotten.'"

Final line-up members

 * Martin Walkyier - vocals (1985–1990, 2006–2011) (ex-Skyclad, The Clan Destined)
 * Andy Sneap - guitar (1985–1991, 2006–2011) (Godsend, ex-Fozzy, Judas Priest)
 * Simon Jones - guitar (1989, 2006–2011) (ex-Phantom, Holosade)
 * Gizz Butt - bass (2007–2011) (The Prodigy, English Dogs)
 * Simon Negus - drums (1985–1991, 2006–2011) (Fallen Angel!, Striptease)

Former members

 * Fraser Craske – bass (1985–1990, 2006–2007)
 * Neil Watson – rhythm guitar (1990–1991)
 * Wayne Banks – bass (1990–1991) (Blaze, Messiah's Kiss, Godsend)
 * Richie Desmond – vocals (1990–1991)
 * Richard Scott – rhythm guitar (1988, live only) (No Excuses)

Albums

 * History of a Time to Come (1988)
 * Dreamweaver (Reflections of Our Yesterdays) (1989)
 * Mourning Has Broken (1991)

Singles

 * Blood for the Blood God (1987)
 * Wildfire/The Best of Enemies (1989)

Split singles and compilation albums

 * A Cautionary Tale/And the Brave Man Fails (split album with Vendetta) (1988)
 * Doomsday News III – Thrashing East Live (Live) (1990)

Demos

 * Magic in Practice and Theory (1985)
 * BBC Sessions (1986)
 * Fragments of a Faith Forgotten (1987)
 * Stranger Than Fiction (1987)

Video

 * Keep It True 8 (2008) DVD
 * The End of the Beginning

title: Sabbat (English band)