text:
Talk:Joey Jordison

Anal Blast
Yeah, there's no way I was going to leave that bullshit about Anal Blast untouched. Don Decker is completely unacknowledged and it clearly implied that Joey & Paul formed AB for a laugh before they got down to the serious business of making angry mallcore led by a frontman who managed to single-handedly fuck up an entire teenage generation's understanding of what metal vocals are.

Height
Anybody know how tall he is when you see the pictures of him with Metallica at download hes like a foot shorter than all of them lol  —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Alaric (talk • contribs) 20:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

 * He's like 5'3", not that this belongs in the this talk page at all. Talk pages are to discuss improvements that could be made on the article.  REZTER  TALK   ø  20:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Biased info
Removed the following piece of horseshit:

"He is arguably considered to be the most skilled and disciplined drummer in the alternative metal circuit."

- TorbenFrost 15:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

idiot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.90.63 (talk) 00:31, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Images
For some apparent reason, the Wiki all of the sudden became lifeless with no pictures at all. I took the liberty of adding a name image which i found. <--PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THAT IMAGE (Please change it). Also i found an image of joey at the drumset. later thought tell me that the picture is not revealing enough to his identity and appearance. If you guys can find a picture that is not very common and looks cool, feel free to replace it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrJoeyJordison (talk • contribs)
 * I removed both of the images. Images on Wikipedia need to be free, and can only be unfree images when it would be impossible for another image to be created. In this case, another free image could be created. Also, images are added in Wikipedia are added for informative purposes not aesthetics. --Wildnox(talk) 20:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine, ill add one for informative purposes, damn guys wake up a lil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MrJoeyJordison (talk • contribs)
 * I removed the new image. It fails the fair use criteria and, from the looks of the image, not a free image.--Wildnox(talk) 22:40, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Playing with KoЯn
This should definetely be interesting, as Slipknot and KoЯn feuded in the past. Looks like that's been made up. He'll be playing the drum parts that Terry Bozzio came up with on KoЯn's upcoming 8th studio album, so he'd better get to practicing! He'll be on the Family Values Tour 2007; check the page to find out when they're coming to your town. URFG 15:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)URFG

it wasnt made up. they patched things up bway before he joinded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.65.145 (talk) 10:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

kabuki
Kabuki actors don't wear masks. also, it's not kabuki in anything. the face paint is wrong. fix it.
 * "fix it"? what's with the commands? It's your wikipedia too, you fix it.Noit 07:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The credit is fine. He's getting enough credit for what he's doing. I also added in the Ministry info (it's a shame that so many people aren't interested in Ministry anymore). misterknowall

Credit
That article doesnt give Joey all the credit in the world he deserves. Also, Joey has no tattoos (the only member of the band to do so), therefore it is incorrect to say that all the Slipknot members have the Tribal 'S' tattooed on them, in fact not all of them other than Joey have it. Slipknot are the greatest band of all time. Maggot666 28/08/2005 This article is very biased and does not give him enough credit. He has done way more than what this states. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 14:16, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

JOEY IS NOT THE LEAD GUITARIST IN WEDNESDAY 13!!! THE LEAD GUITARISTS NAME IS PIGGY D!

but now wednesday has regrouped wednesday 13 and the lead guitarist is eric griffin (murderdolls) --- i just wanted to correc that ^^^

Annonymous (666)
This article does not, DOES NOT give Joey enough credit for what he has done.(!!!)There is more to this..... Would someone like to help rewrite it? TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:04, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I read this on a Japanese sales review spot
…スリップノットのドラマーの奴もマゾンナさんの大ファンだよ！ "The drummer from Slipknot is a huge fan of Masonna" … Is this true? Nagelfar 05:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

is there any actual documentation of his death? Any news article, press release, anything? I understand that if this just occured today nothing official would have yet to be made let alone sent out. But how does someone filling out a biography and Myspace find out about it before hand?????

Cymbal Dilemma
Joey actually uses alot of cymbals. He does not use stagg cymbals but uses Paiste cymbals instead. This once said it but now has been reverted to him using 3 stagg cymbals. Please change the section back to his previous state (When he uses Paiste cymbals). Thank you. micoolio101 (talk)

No bullshit anymore, please
This is an online encyclopaedia, and not a fanboy forum for fanboys to write their uninformed and biased POV's. And nobody cares if you think he's hot or what's your fauvorite band. This is a discussion for the content of the article, not your personal preferences.

Anyway, I'm going to remove that completely pointless reference of how fast Joey is rumoured to be with his feet. Especially since it makes no sense. First you're talking about how Joey and Roadrunner United, and then just out of the blue you get the following comment: "He is rumoured to be able to play 27 beats in 4 seconds on his double pedal drum kit." - Spade

Quote:

"== Former Guitarist? ==

I thought Joey is the guiatist for Murderdolls. . . why does it say he's a former member? WereWolf 15:50, 1 August 2006 (UTC)"

Being a guitarist, is being a former member of the band.

 * I think Joey's ability in the double bass drum should be mentioned, I mean, look at Flo Mournier's article, he's less famous than Jordison and his skill at the double bass drum is mentioned. Cancerbero 8

 * Flo also doesn't have a billion drooling fanboys that know little to nothing of drumming. Not saying Joey's bad, but Flo has that mention for a reason: they aren't a 'popular' band on the level of Slipknot and the people who listen to Cryptopsy are likely to be able to judge drumming better than Slipknot fans.

 * Wikipedia is not a place for judging. There are too many judgements in this article. That is why there is a POV box at the top. Noit 05:02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd suggest that Flo is renowned by DRUMMERS for his speed. Go to any drum section in a music forum, mention Joey being a) fast or b) the best ever and watch everyone jump down your throat

How is this factual?
Joey often sang like a mofo for his side project

Second paragraph of his biography

Height
I've removed his height from the trivia section, because it is useless and seemingly very controversial. Noit 18:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Ministry
Ive removed the mention that Joey is disliked by some Ministry fans, this was for some unknown reason in the section about his Mask. (Zephyr 17:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC))

Kabuki mask?
Being that actors in kabuki only very rarely, if ever, wear masks, I am curious as to the origin of this kabuki mask, and its appearance, if a nice clear picture can be found. Is it a Noh mask? Is it a mask made to look like kabuki makeup? Or is it completely unrelated to actual kabuki performances, and only sort of looks like some stereotypical conception of what kabuki makeup looks like? Thank you. LordAmeth 23:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Citations, please!!!
"While in high school, Jordison attended a jazz school and hung out with cousin Steve Allan White. This helped profoundly to improve his drumming ability, which has since made him become the top rated drummer by music media across the world." Can we get a citataion on this? I don't know about you, but this to me sounds like something written by some mallcore fanboy ignoring NPOV. I'm considering editing it unitl someone comes up with a reliable source to validate it. likelightoflies 09:05, 17 Januray 2007 (UTC)

And in the box says that he worked with Anal Blast, yet I don't see any citation. It doesn't even appear in the biograhy here!!! --Sheish 6 Sheish 22:51, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Citations would include Choosing Death by Albert Mudrian, Extreme Metal by Joel McIver or any of the Terrorizer references I cited over on the Slipknot talk page. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Who deleted the article about Joey's playing style?
Who deleted that, and why? I'm the one who created that article. URFG

Graffiti and Restoration
Somebody (not sure who) decided yesterday to delete most of the article and say about how some high school "sucks".

I have now restored the page to how it was beforehand

Also I definatley think something should be mentioned about Joey's speed.

If you have ever tried playing People = Shit, you will know how amazingly fast and difficult it is! 81.77.245.17 00:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Question
does joey plays bass guitar?? in which band? Roadrunner United

Genres
I added Nu Metal, Heavy Metal, Death Metal, and Grindcore to the infobox. The first two are obvious based on him being in one of the defining Nu Metal bands, and all of his bands being in some form of heavy metal. The second two, on the otherhand, I think may meat some resistence, but I placed there due to his involvement in Modifidious and Anal Blast.--Wildnox(talk) 21:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm also suggesting that the genre might be better shortend to Heavy Metal alone, since all of the genres currently listed are subgenres of Heavy Metal. --Wildnox(talk) 21:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * But what about grindcore? grindcore ain't any kind of metal, grindcore is punk. Perhaps is a punk genere, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

they are Metal so just have that

they are just ppl that don't kno how to play their instruments or songwrite very well 66.66.144.28 20:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC) --Wildnox(talk) 12:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Fact-checking for Emperor claim
When did he play for Emperor? I'm fairly certain that Emperor never had him appear live with them. Trym has been with the band since 1996. If nobody has any actual facts for this, it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.240.194 (talk) 16:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Joey's new mask
He does NOT wear the black thorns on a consistent basis. I really think this should be included.
 * Do you have a Reliable source to back up your claim?  Black  ngold29   06:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Drums
Jordison's drum set breakdown has been added a few times over the past few weeks, but has never been sourced (though still not properly) until its latest re-add, though I'm still not entirely convinced of reliability. I would like to know why people feel it is necessarry to include such info. This site should give a biography of Jordision and help people learn about him, not include every known fact about the man. I doubt people are coming to this site looking for the model of Jordison's clamp. I think it verges on WP:TRIVIA to include it. If somebody is that into drumming and wishes to discover this info, I'm sure they can find it on other sites. So does anybody have a good reason to include this info?  Black  ngold29   15:16, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

The info came from the manufactures websitesand both stated that this was in fact the set up for hi latest kit, so Im pretty confident as far as reliablity goes... As for if we need this or not in the article, sure people could find it somewhere else but atleast for me (and many others to I would belive) the wiki is becoming more and more an alternative to google. Also pretty much all other members in slipknot have a equipment section so why not Joey? Roger Workman (talk) 16:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 * What if we included links to the sources in the "External links" section? I like the "alternative to Google", but I think it just seems cluttered when it's a list model numbers. As for the other members, not very many of their equiptment sections are sourced, so I don't know if they can be trusted.  Black  ngold29   17:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Good points. I agree that it looks somewhat clutered with all the dimension etc, but the equipment section could be close to the bottom of the page so most people dont have to scroll through it all the time. And if the equipment sections of the other members is arent sourced rally doesnt consern the Joey Jordison article. As far as putting the links in the external links.. Maybe, maybe not? A third opinion would be great here. Roger Workman (talk) 17:28, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 * New idea: What if we added a few sentences of prose to the Slipknot section? That way we could give an overview of what he uses, but it wouldn't be the long list of model numbers. I just remembered I wanted to add something about him going upside-down while he plays too, we could put that in as well. How's that sound?  Black  ngold29   21:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 * If you can source it then go for it :P Jakisbak (talk) 23:53, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 * He does it on both Disasterpieces and Voliminal: Inside the Nine and I heard an interview where he talked about falling out once, I'll have to look for it. It'd be cool to have an explination of who came up with the idea or how the drums are secured to his platform, but there's enough to say something.  Black  ngold29   23:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Definately, the video of the drum solo on disasterpieces is around anyway, its simply amazing. Jakisbak (talk) 00:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I know it's been a while since this has been discussed, but there have been many edits to a newly added Equiptment section as of late, none of which have included sources. As I stated above I am not opposed to adding the info, though I prefer it is as prose, as long as it is cited to a reliable source. I have limited knowledge on drums and I am afraid that people will simply come along and add whatever they want to to the section if there are no sources to back them up. Thank you.  black ngold29  17:31, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Satyricon
there is absolutely no way anyone from Slipknot was even remotely influenced by Satyricon (proved by their music insimilarities), also there is no proof that i can find in my personal research, nor is there any references to such located in the article itself.

AeturnalNarcosis (talk) 12:48, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Well if you read what you removed correctly you would have noticed that it said:

 * "Jordison's dedication to music led to performances and work with many other bands over his career"

 * Not:

 * "Jordison was influenced by Satyricon."

 * He drummed for Satyricon in 2004 for a short period and it is backed up by this source... in the main body. Please in future, do not removed sourced information.  REZTER   TALK   ø  13:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Signature Sticks
His signature pro-mark sticks have his own blood infused into the paint--Someone needs to add that. It is a completely true fact! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.180.76 (talk) 20:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Double Pedal
Is their any citations or proof to the note in the equipment section. I highly doubt the second bass drum is for show 86.43.194.45 (talk) 23:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Avenged Sevenfolds upcommin album
Joey is NOT going to be on A7X's upcomming album, Mike Portnoy is... follow the link: http://www.avengedsevenfold.com/news/a7x-enters-studio-mike-portnoy--Arneandre (talk) 15:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Deletions
I added information yesterday about Joey winning the best metal drummer award hosted by Drummers Magazine and his current nomination by Rhythm magazine as the best drummer for the past 25 years. Also what he said about Slipknot's future. Took me a long time to get references from Roadrunner's website, Slipknot's blogs, YouTube etc. and to date them to make the article verifiable. Why has it all been reverted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevon100 (talk • contribs) 14:34, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Header Picture
That is a terrible, terrible, awful picture to use of Joey for his main photo at the top of the page. There are millions of pictures of this guy out there. Someone please pick a better one.Zdawg1029 (talk) 00:15, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Telegram
The singing telegram thing was from a satire piece put out by metalsucks. It's not real. Jeez. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.110.229.140 (talk) 22:27, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

 * There are several sources making this claim, so unless you produce anything to the contrary, it stays in. Zdawg1029 (talk) 05:03, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The telegram piece was absolute satire. Zdawg, don't believe everything you read online. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.60.178.2 (talk) 16:25, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20121022211248/http://www.kerrang.com/blog/2011/01/my_tinnitus_was_at_an_extreme.html to http://www.kerrang.com/blog/2011/01/my_tinnitus_was_at_an_extreme.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110607191046/http://www.chartattack.com/news/72680/slipknot-creating-sic-reissue to http://www.chartattack.com/news/72680/slipknot-creating-sic-reissue

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External links modified
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Place of death
Is it possible to include the place where Joey died? 73.167.238.120 (talk) 21:23, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, as long as it is completed by reliable sources. No self-published and social media sources. Add the info in #Illness and death and fill in |death_place= in the infobox. Oroborvs (talk) 21:52, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * What is the place of death though? Thanks! 73.167.238.120 (talk) 22:05, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * None of the sources I can find say where, likely out of respect for the family. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  16:02, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Joey Jordison


text:
Gordon Fines

Gordon Richard Fines (November 11, 1911 in Darlingford, Manitoba – July 29, 1990) was a politician in Manitoba, Canada. He served in the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba from 1949 to 1953, as a member of the social-democratic Cooperative Commonwealth Federation.

Fines was the son of Richard Fines and Mabel Willcott, who had resided in Manitoba since 1876, shortly after the province's creation. He was educated in Baldur, and worked as an educator in Manitoba and Saskatchewan for eight years. He was elected to the Winnipeg school board in 1947, and to the Winnipeg city council in 1948. Fines also worked for the Canadian Pacific Railway, became active in the labour movement, and was local chair of the Brotherhood of Railway Clerks Lodge 49. He returned to teaching later in life.

He was married twice: first to Santa Maria La Monica in 1942 and later to Marion Cove Morden.

He was elected to the Manitoba legislature in the 1949 provincial election, in the constituency of Winnipeg Centre. During this period's Winnipeg was divided into three constituencies, each of which elected four members through a single transferable ballot. Fines finished fourth on the first count with 2,149 votes, and was declared elected to the third position on the seventh count when another CCF member was eliminated.

He was chosen as party whip on December 22, 1952, at the same meeting which saw Lloyd Stinson chosen as party leader. Stinson later described Fines as "a quiet man with firm opinions and a flair for statistics and fiscal matters". He was the CCF's main spokesperson in budget debates.

Fines sought re-election to the legislature in the 1953 election, but was defeated. He finished seventh on the first count with 1,080 votes, and was eliminated on the seventh count. The independent candidates of Lewis Stubbs and Stephen Juba likely contributed to Fines's defeat.

After his provincial defeat, Fines ran for the federal Cooperative Commonwealth Federation in the 1953 Canadian election, in the single-member riding of Winnipeg South Centre. He finished third, with about half the votes of Progressive Conservative Gordon Churchill. He ran again in the 1958 election, but finished a poor third.

Winnipeg's electoral map was redrawn before the 1958 provincial election, with the multi-member constituencies eliminated and "first past the post" single-member constituencies introduced in their place. Fines ran for the CCF in the St. Matthew's constituency, but lost to Progressive Conservative William G. Martin by 822 votes. He lost to Martin by 545 votes in the 1959 election, and finished third as a candidate of the New Democratic Party (successor to the CCF) in the 1962 campaign.

Fines had greater success in municipal politics. He was elected to the Winnipeg City Council for Ward Two in the 1953 municipal election. He served on council from 1953 to 1960, and again from 1966 to 1971. In 1969, he was chosen as the head of Winnipeg's Parks and Recreation Committee.

He died in Winnipeg at the age of 78.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Gordon Fines


text:
Sapote

Sapote ( from tzapotl ) is a term for a soft, edible fruit. The word is incorporated into the common names of several unrelated fruit-bearing plants native to Mexico, Central America and northern parts of South America. It is also known in Caribbean English as soapapple.

From Sapotaceae
Some, but not all sapotes, come from the family Sapotaceae:

 * Sapodilla, also called naseberry (Manilkara zapota) is native to Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Belize, and possibly El Salvador. The Sapotaceae were named after a synonym of this species.
 * Yellow sapote (Pouteria campechiana) is native to Mexico and Central America.
 * Mamey sapote (Pouteria sapota) is from southern Mexico to northern South America.
 * Green sapote (Pouteria viridis) is native to lowland southern Mexico.

From other families

 * Black sapote (Diospyros nigra: Ebenaceae), from eastern Mexico south to Colombia, is probably the original Aztec tzapotl.
 * White sapote (Casimiroa edulis: Rutaceae) is native to northern and central Mexico, Costa Rica, El Salvador and Guatemala.
 * South American sapote (Quararibea cordata: Malvaceae) is native to the Amazon rainforests of Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru.
 * Sun sapote (Licania platypus: Chrysobalanaceae) is native to southern Mexico south to Colombia.

title: Sapote


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spookyhorse

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. — Xezbeth 19:45, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Spookyhorse
Non-notable band vanity as per WP:MUSIC (a look at their Geocities site shows they play only local venues and you can only buy CDs straight from the band). --InShaneee 20:29, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete band vanity. --Etacar11 23:29, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. NeoJustin 02:01, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable. JamesBurns 05:13, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
Technical High School of Limeira

The Technical High School of Limeira (Portuguese: Colégio Técnico de Limeira, COTIL) is a public high school maintained by the State University of Campinas. Its campus is located in Limeira, São Paulo, Brazil. The school was founded in 1967.

COTIL provides courses in computer science, mechanical engineering, nursing, civil engineering, geomatics, and quality & productivity.

title: Technical High School of Limeira


text:
Talk:Lists of political office-holders in Vojvodina

Images

 * placing images here causes certain tehnical problems in the article

 * what technical problems ? it looks fine to me. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 20:30, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, which browser you use? I use Opera, and when you place images there, I do not see half of content. The visitors of Wikipedia, which use same browser as me would have the same problem. Besides that, I just created image gallery, and I think that this solution is better, since I will put more images there. User:PANONIAN

Attila the Hun

 * It's not identified where exactly the capital of his empire was, but he still was ruler of today's Vojvodina

How so? If you look at this map, you can see how Hun Empire was large:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Huns_empire.png

All rulers mentioned in the article have some specific local ties with Vojvodina, Backa, Banat or Srem. If Attila had some local ties with the region, please explain what is exact nature of these ties. User:PANONIAN

Article subject
There is no Voivodina before 1849. So there could not be rulers of Voivodina. The terrytory of Voivodina was part of Hungarian kingdom from 10th century to 1541. Than it was part of Ottoman empire to 1799. Than it was the part of Habsburg empire. Srem vas part of Croatia, Bács (Bačka) and Bánság (Banat) was part of Hungary. Voivodina was formed 1849 and existed up to 18660/61. Than there was no Voivodina up to 1945, but there are no rulers anymore. So please erase this site because it is nonsense.--Mzolta (talk) 13:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, you do not have to elaborate simplistic (and partially inaccurate) history of colonial powers that ruled over Vojvodina. Certainly, you agree that there is Vojvodina since 1848, right? So, clearly there are rulers of Vojvodina from 1848 to this day and therefore title and subject of this article are perfectly valid. The questionable issue might be list of pre-1848 rulers, but I do not see why list cannot be expanded with this info too. These pre-1848 rulers are important for regional history. No matter that name Vojvodina was introduced in 1848, historical states, duchies and provinces that existed in its territory before 1848 are its political predecessors and therefore they are relevant for regional history. PANONIAN  05:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of whole section
User:Epeefleche deleted lists of prefects of ancient provinces and his justification for this action was mention of "wp:listpeople" Wikipedia rules. So let examine these rules:

A person may be included in a list of people if all the following requirements are met:
 * 1. The person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement. An exception to this requirement may be made if the person is especially important in the list's group; for example, if the person is famous for a specific event, the notability requirement need not be met. If a person in a list does not have an article in Wikipedia about them, a citation (or link to another article) must be provided to establish their membership in the list's group and to establish their notability.
 * 2. The person's membership in the list's group is significant in some way (in other words, a person should not be included in a list merely because they happen to be a member of the list's group). This requirement applies only to lists based upon religion, beliefs, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or other contentious topics.
 * 3. The person's membership in the list's group is established by reliable sources.

I fail to see that data removed by User:Epeefleche does not fulfill these criteria:
 * 1. I do not see why prefects of ancient provinces are not "notable people". They are notable as much as modern presidents of Vojvodinian government.
 * 2. I do not see that second rule could be connected with this article.
 * 3. reliable sources for this list are provided: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_local_rulers_of_Vojvodina#Literature (or more exactly, data about these prefects was taken from first mentioned source - Petar Milošević, Arheologija i istorija Sirmijuma, Novi Sad, 2001).

So, what exactly is problem here? PANONIAN 19:09, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * First off--As I have explained to Pano elsewhere (he opened up discussion in more than one location, it appears), his continued additions of red-linked names, without RS references at the end of the line mentioning the name that demonstrate the person's having been a ruler of Vojvodina, to this list is against various wp policies.  Though I've pointed them out to Pano, he has continued to revert, and at this point is engaging in tendentious edit warring.

 * Pano asked me why he should not add red-linked un-referenced names to wikipedia lists, as he did it again, w/an edit summary that said "what kind of argument is that? can you refer to Wikipedia policy which say that".

 * I left Pano two responses -- one in an edit summary here (pointing him to wp:LISTPEOPLE), and a second response in the standard level-one notice for editors who are unfamiliar with wp's core policies of verifiability and citing sources here, referring to Verifiability and Citing sources.

 * Even after I did so, Pano insisted on re-adding the red-linked, unreferenced names yet again.

 * The names are still red-linked, and still un-referenced. For any such names to remain, a reference must be placed at the end of the line regarding the name that reflects the verifiability/notability that is required.  It is not sufficient to have mentions of sources listed elsewhere in the list.  It is not clear which names any such references would refer to.  And, as none of us controls who is later added to the list, an editor cannot simply refer back to the names listed in "x" ... because another editor could come along the next minute, and add Panonian (for example) to the list, and the first editor's statement would no longer be true.--Epeefleche (talk) 20:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Satisfied? PANONIAN  21:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

 * A good start. The article still has other red-linked, non-referenced names.  Those should be either sourced, blue-linked, or deleted, per the above.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

 * I took a quick look at the Prefects section, picking the first and last names. There are sources for Valerius Licinius, such as . However, all I could find for Apraemis were Wikipedia mirrors. The source used, Arheologija i istorija Sirmijuma, is not available online, so it is difficult to check it. I think it's a case of working collaboratively to ensure that names in the list are adequately sourced. It is ironic that it takes a dispute before people add sources, but it is very common. Disputes ensure that Wikipedia articles are tested and improved. This list is very poorly sourced and contains many redlinks. It might be useful if you two continued disputing until the rest of the list is improved. Of course, you can dispute in a collegiate manner - it doesn't need to be aggressive and bad tempered! I wish you both good luck, and I look forward to seeing an improved list in a few months.  SilkTork   ✔Tea time  22:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The redlinks should not have been added -- even though there is no timeline -- in the first place, for any period of time. If Pan wishes to move them out of the article, and work on them, and add them back when they meet the guidelines' standards, that would be fine.  But they should not remain in the article as red-linked unreferenced names.--Epeefleche (talk) 22:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I can add source for each red link, but I would need some time for that (few days at least). I wrote this article long time ago and I do not remember exactly which name I took from which book. Anyway, I will see to provide some web sources instead (if verifiability of published sources is seen as problem). Unfortunately, some of my sources are indeed not available online, but I believe that I earned some credibility in Wikipedia due to the fact that I wrote 821 articles and that, therefore, info that I translated from published Serbian sources that are not available online should not be deleted from this article only because of the fact that an online verification of that info cannot be found. Online coverage of the regional history of Vojvodina is pure anyway, and it is very hard to find online sources for some parts of this history. Anyway, I will see to provide an online reference wherever is that possible. Also, I planed to create separate article about each person from the list, but I did not had enough free time for that. So, I do not agree that red links should be deleted. I will provide references for them, and if I find time, I will create articles about these persons and links will not be red any more (or some other users might create some of these articles, anyway). Also, can we be little flexible about this: this source lists most of modern rulers, so can we add this link as reference for whole sections of the article, instead for each person in that list? PANONIAN  15:07, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I, personally, am not challenging your credibility as to any such references linked to refs that are off-line. My issue is with the barest of problems (though some editors require more than I do) -- those entries that lack both any ref at all reflecting notability/truth, and also lack a wp article. Thanks much. As far as using Ben Cahoon's site as a source, I'm not sure that that qualifies as an RS, but would be happy to here why you believe it should.  Also, you could always bring it to the reliable sources noticeboard for a view -- I would be happy with whatever the thinking is there.  Tx.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:16, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it was actually user:SilkTork who raised question of verifiability of sources and I simply answered to both of you in same post. I am not yet finished with adding references and I will add them to all red links. Also, which of the sites that I used is Ben Cahoon's site? (can you specify www address of that site?) Originally, when I wrote this article, I used only www.worldstatesmen.org and http://www.skupstinavojvodine.gov.rs/ (or was it www.skupstinavojvodine.gov.yu in that time?), while all other sources that I used were published ones. So, I used newly added web links simply to fulfill verifiability requirement of user:SilkTork, but I can also specify published source where that info is used. I did recently expanded article with some new names (for example those of Iazyge rulers), but I took that data from article in Serbian Wikipedia that I wrote: http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%88%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8 (and I used published sources for that article too). PANONIAN  08:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * worldstatesmen.org is Cahoon's site--the one you had asked me about.--Epeefleche (talk) 09:20, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I will provide additional references for names that are currently referenced only by worldstatesmen.org. PANONIAN  04:41, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * One more thing: is it OK that in the part of the article that speaks about some modern rulers we use references for whole sections instead for each person? For example, lists of "Bans of Danube Banovina" or "Presidents of the Government of Vojvodina" are complete lists and there is nothing that could be added to these lists from other sources. So, is current way of sourcing of that part of the article OK or should I add reference for each ban or government president? PANONIAN  09:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That would not work, unfortunately. Because you cannot "lock down" the section.  Nothing prevents someone, the moment after you walk away, from adding "Joey Panonian" to the list.  Your "statement" that the whole list is sourced to "ref x" would therefore immediately be rendered false.  Instead, simply add the (the same, if it is indeed the same) ref to each line item, at the end.--Epeefleche (talk) 09:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. PANONIAN  04:41, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

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text:
Time Machine (game show)

Time Machine is an American game show where contestants compete to answer trivia questions about popular culture and recent history to win prizes. The show aired on NBC from January 7 through April 26, 1985, and was hosted by John Davidson. Charlie Tuna was the announcer, with Rich Jeffries as his substitute. Reg Grundy Productions produced the series, and upon its premiere Time Machine was one of three Grundy series airing on NBC (Sale of the Century, which followed Time Machine on NBC's daytime schedule, and Scrabble were the other two).

Most of the questions used focused on nostalgia, popular culture, and recent history, and more specifically what year a particular event occurred.

Format #1
Three contestants, one usually a returning champion, competed in mini-games, similar to pricing games from The Price Is Right, to win prizes. The prizes won went into a contestant's "Prize Bank". Each contestant played one game, with the champion playing the third game.

Mini Games (Format #1)

 * "Tube Game" – The contestant was given the names of two shows, and had to pick which one was airing in a given year. A correct answer gave the player control of the network the show was airing on. This process was done three times–the first with ABC shows, the second with NBC shows, and the third with CBS shows. After all three networks had been played the location of a hidden prize package was revealed, and if the contestant controlled that network the package was added to their prize bank. If the contestant got all 3 correct, he/she won the prize automatically.
 * "3 In A Row" – In each square of a tic-tac-toe board is a different year, all from the same decade. 3 In A Row had two different formats. The first format had a player start by picking three cards dubbed "Poison Cards". After the Poison Cards were chosen the player was shown nine events and chose them one at a time. After a player chose an event the year it occurred lit up on the board, and the game continued until the player made any line. If a player made a line horizontally or vertically, a prize was added to their prize bank. A diagonal line won a larger prize, but if a player made a line with all three Poison Cards the game was lost. The second format gave the player a choice between two events; each time an event was chosen the year it happened was lit up on the board and a new event replaced it. Since the Poison Cards were no longer in play, a player could only lose by making a diagonal line.
 * "As Time Goes By" – To begin, the contestant was given one free spin. Three photos of a celebrity were shown to the contestant one at a time and they had to guess in what year the photo was taken. Each time the player came within five years of the correct year they earned a spin. They then took their spins to the Money Clock, a spinner made to look like a clock. The area around 12 o'clock was painted red. The pointer moved automatically, and the contestant watched it for a few seconds. They then turned away and hit a plunger, stopping the pointer. If they landed at the red area, a prize was added to their prize bank. The game continued until a player stopped the pointer in the red area to win the prize or until they ran out of spins and lost.
 * "Before Or After" – The contestant was given $200 and a base year, and the contestant had to guess whether an event happened before or after the base year. A correct guess doubled the money, and the year of that event became the new base year. The contestant had three opportunities to double their money, for a maximum of $1,600 for three correct answers. After the third question, the contestant was given an opportunity to bank the money and stop or risk it on a double-or-nothing final question. Answering correctly doubled the money and added it to the prize bank, but answering incorrectly lost it all.
 * "Sweet Sixteen" – Similar to the "Lucky Seven" pricing game on The Price Is Right. The contestant was given sixteen $100 bills to start the game. They were then shown a series of four products and had to guess what year they were introduced. For the first three products, the contestant was given a range to guess in (sometime in the 1950s, within the last 10 years, etc.). If any $100 bills were left after the fourth product, the leftover money and an additional prize package was put in their Prize Bank.
 * "Main Event" – A base year was given along with five categories. The contestant was given a free category of their choice to start and then picked from the remaining categories one at a time. Each category had one question with two possible answers, with a right answer winning the category and a clue for the "Main Event", which was something that occurred in the base year. After all the categories were played a clue was revealed and the contestant got an opportunity to guess. Guessing the Main Event on the first clue put $5,000 in the Prize Bank; each subsequent clue cut the value by $1,000.

Time Capsule
After the mini-games were played the three contestants faced off in the final round, the Time Capsule. Davidson gave the players a list of four events that all happened in the same year, and then a clip from a popular song from that year was played. The contestants then attempted to guess the year, and the contestant with the closest guess became the champion, won all of their banked prizes, and advanced to the bonus round. The other two players left with parting gifts. If two or more contestants were equally close, John would read a question related to the Time Capsule year to the tied players; the first one to buzz in with the right answer won.

Format #2
On February 11 (just over a month after the series began), the format was completely overhauled with many mini-games undergoing rule changes to fit the new format and others retired. The champion no longer played the mini games, with the two challengers playing for the right to meet him/her in the final round.

Three mini-games were played. The first two mini-games were worth one point, the last one was worth two, and both challengers got to keep whatever they managed to win in the mini-games. The one with the most points after three games won the game and advanced to the Challenge Round. If there was a tie after three games, a tiebreaker question was read; the first one to buzz in with the right answer won the game.

Mini Games (Format #2)
Six mini-games were used in this new format. Unlike the old format, the same two lineups were used for every episode, alternating each day.

Lineup #1

 * "Game 1: As Time Goes By": The format was the same as described above, but instead of trying to guess the year that each picture was taken, a higher/lower format was used. One player gave a guess of which year each photo was taken, and the other had to decide if the actual year was earlier or later. The actual year was then revealed, and if the second player guessed correctly he/she earned a spin on the Money Clock. Otherwise the first player received the spin. The Money Clock now displayed monetary values of $100, $300, and $1,000 (the smallest space among the three) as well as one that awarded nothing. As before, the contestants watched the pointer spin before turning away and hitting the plunger to stop it. Both contestants kept any money won during the round, with the one that made the most money winning the game and a point.
 * "Game 2: Tube Game": The Tube Game was revised for the new format. Now, Davidson asked questions about television series airing on the three major networks in a certain year. The object was to be the first to reach five points, with the winner receiving a prize.
 * "Game 3: Jukebox Game": Debuting after the change in format, the Jukebox Game was a music-centric quiz. Four jukeboxes were shown, each emblazoned with a different year from a certain decade. A song is played, and two possible artists are given. Buzzing in with the right artist won the right to match the song with the year it was released. If they got a match, they got a point. If they missed, their opponent got one chance to pick the right one and steal the point. The jukebox with the right answer was eliminated from play regardless. If all the jukeboxes were eliminated, then the contestants just had to identify the song's artist to get the point, without having to match the song to a year. First to three points won the game and a prize.

Lineup #2

 * "Game 1: On The Button" – An event was given, and one player guessed what year the event happened in. Getting it exactly right won a point for that player. If they guessed wrong, Davidson would say whether the event happened before or after that year, and the other contestant had a chance to guess. This continued until one player got three points, winning the game and a prize. This game used the same set as "Sweet Sixteen".
 * "Game 2: 3 In A Row" – Just like before, each square of a tic-tac-toe board had a different year from the same decade. Three spaces in a row were marked with stars; these made up the "Magic 3 In A Row". One player was given two events. The contestant picked an event from the two choices, and the year it happened in lit up. A new event takes the selected one's place, and the other contestant picked one. Picking a space in the Magic 3 In A Row won $100, which the contestant kept win or lose. The contestant who lit up the third space in the Magic 3 In A Row won the game and a prize.
 * "Game 3: Main Event" – As before, a base year was given along with five categories. The game begins with a pot of $200. The contestants alternate picking categories, each one having one question with two possible answers. Each correct answer adds $200 to the pot. After all the categories were played, clues to a “Main Event” were revealed one at a time. The first person to buzz in and correctly guess the Main Event won the game and the pot.

Challenge Round
The Challenge Round was played in the same way as the Time Capsule round from the previous format, except with two players and a different name.

The winner from the first half of the show and the returning champion competed to see which one of them would be advancing to the bonus round. As before, the closest one to the actual year, high or low, won the championship.

Bonus Round
Three different bonus games were used during the show's run.
 * Bonus Round #1 – Four events were given, only one of which happened in a given year. If the contestant picked the right event, he or she won a growing Jackpot of prizes. The champion only played for the prizes if he or she guessed the exact year in the Time Capsule round.
 * Bonus Round #2 – A target year was given, and up to four questions were asked. The contestant's job was to guess whether the event occurred before or after the given year. Four correct answers won the bonus round, a prize package that included a new car, and a cash jackpot that began at $1,000 and increased $1,000 every day until hit. The game ended if the player missed a question, but each time he/she made it back to the bonus round one less correct answer was required to win.
 * Bonus Round #3 – This bonus round was used when the second format began and was played exactly the same way as the second bonus, but instead of playing for the prize package and cash the champion played for the car. The champion had to provide four answers to win the car on the first try, with one less required for each return trip, and the car was automatically won if the player made it to a fifth day. Under this format, a champion retired when they won the car; the contestant they defeated in that day's Challenge Round then became the new champion.

title: Time Machine (game show)


text:
Vedanā

Vedanā (Pāli and Sanskrit: वेदना) is an ancient term traditionally translated as either "feeling" or "sensation." In general, vedanā refers to the pleasant, unpleasant and neutral sensations that occur when our internal sense organs come into contact with external sense objects and the associated consciousness. Vedanā is identified as valence or "hedonic tone" in psychology.

Vedanā is identified within the Buddhist teaching as follows:
 * One of the seven universal mental factors in the Theravāda Abhidharma.
 * One of the five universal mental factors in the Mahāyāna Abhidharma.
 * One of the twelve links of dependent origination (in both Theravāda and Mahāyāna traditions).
 * One of the five skandas (in both Theravāda and Mahāyāna traditions).
 * One of the objects of focus within the four foundations of mindfulness practice.

In the context of the twelve links, craving for and attachment to vedanā leads to suffering; reciprocally, concentrated awareness and clear comprehension of vedanā can lead to Enlightenment and the extinction of the causes of suffering.

Theravada
Bhikkhu Bodhi states:
 * Feeling is the mental factor which feels the object. It is the affective mode in which the object is experienced. The Pali word vedanā does not signify emotion (which appears to be a complex phenomenon involving a variety of concomitant mental factors), but the bare affective quality of an experience, which may be either pleasant, painful or neutral....

Nina van Gorkom states:
 * When we study the Abhidhamma we learn that 'vedanā' is not the same as what we mean by feeling in conventional language. Feeling is nāma, it experiences something. Feeling never arises alone; it accompanies citta and other cetasikas and it is conditioned by them. Thus, feeling is a conditioned nāma. Citta does not feel, it cognizes the object and vedanā feels...

 * All feelings have the function of experiencing the taste, the flavour of an object (Atthasālinī, I, Part IV, Chapter I, 109). The Atthasālinī uses a simile in order to illustrate that feeling experiences the taste of an object and that citta and the other cetasikas which arise together with feeling experience the taste only partially. A cook who has prepared a meal for the king merely tests the food and then offers it to the king who enjoys the taste of it:

 * ...and the king, being lord, expert, and master, eats whatever he likes, even so the mere testing of the food by the cook is like the partial enjoyment of the object by the remaining dhammas (the citta and the other cetasikas), and as the cook tests a portion of the food, so the remaining dhammas enjoy a portion of the object, and as the king, being lord, expert and master, eats the meal according to his pleasure, so feeling, being lord, expert and master, enjoys the taste of the object, and therefore it is said that enjoyment or experience is its function.

 * Thus, all feelings have in common that they experience the 'taste' of an object. Citta and the other accompanying cetasikas also experience the object, but feeling experiences it in its own characteristic way.

Mahayana
The Abhidharma-samuccaya states:
 * What is the absolutely specific characteristic of vedana? It is to experience. That is to say, in any experience, what we experience is the individual maturation of any positive or negative action as its final result.

Mipham Rinpoche states:
 * Sensations are defined as impressions.
 * The aggregate of sensations can be divided into three: pleasant, painful, and neutral. Alternatively, there are five: pleasure and mental pleasure, pain and mental pain, and neutral sensation.
 * In terms of support, there are six sensations resulting from contact...

Alexander Berzin describes this mental factors as feeling (tshor-ba, Skt. vedanā) some level of happiness. He states:
 * When we hear the word “feeling” in a Buddhist context, it’s only referring to this: feeling some level of happy or unhappy, somewhere on the spectrum. So, on the basis of pleasant contacting awareness—it comes easily to mind—we feel happy. Happiness is: we would like it to continue. And, on the basis of unpleasant contacting awareness—it doesn’t come easily to the mind, we basically want to get rid of it—we feel unhappiness. “Unhappiness” is the same word as “suffering” (mi-bde-ba, Skt. duhkha). Unhappiness is: I don’t want to continue this; I want to be parted from this.

 * And neutral contacting awareness. We feel neutral about it—neither want to continue it nor to discontinue it...

Relation to "emotions"
Vedanā is the distinct valence or "hedonic tone" of emotional psychology, neurologically identified and isolated.

Contemporary teachers Bhikkhu Bodhi and Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche clarify the relationship between vedanā (often translated as "feelings") and Western notions of "emotions."

Bhikkhu Bodhi writes:
 * "The Pali word vedanā does not signify emotion (which appears to be a complex phenomenon involving a variety of concomitant mental factors), but the bare affective quality of an experience, which may be either pleasant, painful or neutral."

Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche writes:
 * "In case [i.e. within the Buddhist teachings] 'feeling' is not quite our ordinary notion of feeling. It is not the feeling we take so seriously as, for instance, when we say, 'He hurt my feelings.'  This kind of feeling that we take so seriously belongs to the fourth and fifth skandhas of concept and consciousness."

Attributes
In general, the Pali canon describes vedanā in terms of three "modes" and six "classes." Some discourses discuss alternate enumerations including up to 108 kinds.

Three modes, six classes
Throughout canonical discourses (Sutta Pitaka), the Buddha teaches that there are three modes of vedanā:
 * pleasant (sukhā)
 * unpleasant (dukkhā)
 * neither pleasant nor unpleasant (adukkham-asukhā, "ambivalent", sometimes referred to as "neutral" in translation)

Elsewhere in the Pali canon it is stated that there are six classes of vedanā, corresponding to sensations arising from contact (Skt: sparśa; Pali: phassa) between an internal sense organ (āyatana; that is, the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body or mind), an external sense object and the associated consciousness (Skt.: vijnana; Pali: viññāna). (See Figure 1.) In other words:
 * feeling arising from the contact of eye, visible form and eye-consciousness
 * feeling arising from the contact of ear, sound and ear-consciousness
 * feeling arising from the contact of nose, smell and nose-consciousness
 * feeling arising from the contact of tongue, taste and tongue-consciousness
 * feeling arising from the contact of body, touch and body-consciousness
 * feeling arising from the contact of mind (mano), thoughts (dhamma) and mind-consciousness

Two, three, five, six, 18, 36, 108 kinds
In a few discourses, a multitude of kinds of vedana are alluded to ranging from two to 108, as follows:
 * two kinds of feeling: physical and mental
 * three kinds: pleasant, painful, neutral
 * five kinds: physical pleasant, physical painful, mental pleasant, mental painful, equanimous
 * six kinds: one for each sense faculty (eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind)
 * 18 kinds: explorations of the aforementioned three mental kinds of feelings (mental pleasant, mental painful, equanimous) each in terms of each of the aforementioned six sense faculties
 * 36 kinds: the aforementioned 18 kinds of feeling for the householder and the aforementioned 18 kinds for the renunciate
 * 108 kinds: the aforementioned 36 kinds for the past, for the present and for the future

In the wider Pali literature, of the above enumerations, the post-canonical Visuddhimagga highlights the five types of vedanā: physical pleasure (sukha); physical displeasure (dukkha); mental happiness (somanassa); mental unhappiness (domanassa); and, equanimity (upekkhā).

Canonical frameworks
Vedanā is a pivotal phenomenon in the following frequently identified frameworks of the Pali canon:
 * the "five aggregates"
 * the twelve conditions of "dependent origination"
 * the four "foundations of mindfulness"

Mental aggregate
Vedanā is one of the five aggregates (Skt.: skandha; Pali: khandha) of clinging (Skt., Pali: upādāna; see Figure 2 to the right). In the canon, as indicated above, feeling arises from the contact of a sense organ, sense object and consciousness.

Central condition
In the Chain of Conditioned Arising (Skt: pratītyasamutpāda; Pali: ), the Buddha explains that:
 * vedanā arises with contact (phassa) as its condition
 * vedanā acts as a condition for craving (Pali: Taṇhā; Skt.: ).

In the post-canonical 5th-century Visuddhimagga, feeling (vedana) is identified as simultaneously and inseparably arising from consciousness (viññāṇa) and the mind-and-body (nāmarūpa). On the other hand, while this text identifies feeling as decisive to craving and its mental sequelae leading to suffering, the conditional relationship between feeling and craving is not identified as simultaneous nor as being karmically necessary.

Mindfulness base
Throughout the canon, there are references to the four "foundations of mindfulness" (satipaṭṭhāna): the body (kāya), feelings (vedanā), mind states (citta) and mental experiences (dhammā). These four foundations are recognized among the seven sets of qualities conducive to enlightenment (bodhipakkhiyādhammā). The use of vedanā and the other satipaṭṭhāna in Buddhist meditation practices can be found in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta and the Ānāpānasati Sutta.

Wisdom practices
Each mode of vedanā is accompanied by its corresponding underlying tendency or obsession (anusaya). The underlying tendency for pleasant vedanā is the tendency toward lust, for unpleasant, the tendency toward aversion, and for neither pleasant nor unpleasant, the tendency toward ignorance.

In the Canon it is stated that meditating with concentration (samādhi) on vedanā can lead to deep mindfulness (sati) and clear comprehension (sampajanna) (see Table to the right). With this development, one can experience directly within oneself the reality of impermanence (anicca) and the nature of attachment (upādāna). This in turn can ultimately lead to liberation of the mind (nibbāna).

Alternate translations
Alternate translations for the term vedana are:
 * Feeling (Nina van Gorkom, Bhikkhu Bodhi, Alexander Berzin)
 * Feeling some level of happiness (Alexander Berzin)
 * Feeling-tone (Herbert Guenther)
 * Sensation (Erik Kunsang)

title: Vedanā


text:
Talk:FN FNC

HEAT?
So........ What gun DID Al Pacino use in HEAT? ;-)

-it was the FNC im pretty sure, some argue that it was the M16A2 or even the SIG 552.... ill watch it soon again to confirm this.

It was an FNC, no doubt. Koalorka 17:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It was an FNC Para. However, they couldn't get it to work on full-automatic with the blanks (not enough gas pressure apparently) so it had to be used semi-auto in the film.--Davidwiz (talk) 04:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Position of picture
How does the page look, not all pages display the same way for all users,, but at a pretty standard resolution on a 17" monitor, I get a great chunk of whitespace to the left of the infobox, the position of the the wiki markup for the picture above the line "The FNC is a select-fire automatic firearm that uses a gas-driven piston operating principle" forces all text that comes afterwards the markup to appear after the infobox, making an awkward looking page. I'll have a look at it on some other computers first, to see how it appears on different monitors and at different resolutions. But if anyone else gets this problem, repositioning the picture, or even the creation moving it into a gallery section could be considered. (There are a couple of interesting pictures in Commons, that would crowd the article as it stands but would make an interesting addition to a gallery).KTo288 (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Range
There's some contention over the maximum range of the rifle. Currently it's tagged as 2000 m, which is pretty unbelievable. Maybe the bullet would fall that distance if you shot it in a perfect arc, but not with any normal concept of "maximum range." The max range was added in Revision as of 02:16, July 23, 2008 Koalorka (talk | contribs). Anyone with a source should include it. Shadowjams (talk) 17:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

That is exactly what maximum range means. If I remember correctly, the M16 has a range of around 2400m. The other range is effective range. For most assault rifles, this is between 300 and 400m or so... 89.139.194.147 (talk) 07:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)Roy

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text:
Samjna (concept)

Saṃjñā (Sanskrit; Pali: sañña) is a Buddhist term that is typically translated as "perception" or "cognition." It can be defined as grasping at the distinguishing features or characteristics. Samjñā has multiple meanings depending on religions. Although Samjñā means the five aggregates in Buddhism, in Hinduism, it refers to art traditions and in Jainism, it points to recognition distinct from cognition.

Saṃjñā is identified within the Buddhist teachings as follows:
 * One of the five aggregates
 * One of the seven universal mental factors in the Theravada Abhidharma.
 * One of the five universal mental factors in the Mahayana Abhidharma

Theravada
Bhikkhu Bodhi states:
 * The characteristic of perception is the perceiving of the qualities of the object. Its function is to make a sign as a condition for perceiving again that "this is the same," or its function is recognizing what has been previously perceived. It becomes manifest as the interpreting of the object...by way of the features that had been apprehended. Its proximate cause is the object as it appears. Its procedure is compared to a carpenter's recognition of certain kinds of wood by the mark he has made on each.

According to the Theravada tradition, saññā experiences the same object as the citta it accompanies but it performs its own task: it 'perceives' or 'recognizes' the object and it 'marks' it so that it can be recognized again.

The Atthasālinī (I, Part IV, Chapter 1, 110) provides the following two definitions for saññā:
 * ...It has the characteristic of noting and the function of recognizing what has been previously noted. There is no such thing as perception in the four planes of existence without the characteristic of noting. All perceptions have the characteristic of noting. Of them, that perceiving which knows by specialized knowledge has the function of recognizing what has been noted previously. We may see this procedure when the carpenter recognizes a piece of wood which he has marked by specialized knowledge...
 * Perception has the characteristic of perceiving by an act of general inclusion, and the function of making marks as a condition for repeated perception (for recognizing or remembering), as when woodcutters 'perceive' logs and so forth. Its manifestation is the action of interpreting by means of the sign as apprehended, as in the case of blind persons who 'see' an elephant. Or, it has briefness as manifestation, like lightning, owing to its inability to penetrate the object. Its proximate cause is whatever object has appeared, like the perception which arises in young deer mistaking scarecrows for men.

Mahayana
The Abhidharma-samuccaya states:
 * What is the absolutely specific characteristic of conceptualization (saṃjñā)? It is to know by association. It is to see, hear, specify, and to know by way of taking up the defining characteristics and distinguishing them.

Mipham Rinpoche states:
 * Perception consists of the grasping of distinguishing features.

 * In terms of support, they can be divided into six types: perceptions resulting from contact, the meeting of the eye and so forth, up until the mind.

 * Furthermore, they are distinguishing characteristics in regard to sense objects... and... in regard to names...

Alexander Berzin gives the following informal explanation:
 * Then there is distinguishing (’du-shes, Skt. samjna). And so it takes a special feature of the object, of the appearing object—so, the hologram—and it gives some significance to it, some conventional significance to it. In other words, within a sense field it distinguishes between, for instance, light and dark. I mean, we’re seeing a huge amount of information, and in order to deal with it we need to distinguish one little piece from everything else. That’s distinguishing.

Within the five aggregates
Saṃjñā is identified as one of the Five Aggregates, as shown in the following diagram

In the Early Buddhist literature
In the early Buddhism Theravadin texts of the Nikayas/Āgamas, saṃjñā/sañña is the third of the Five Aggregates (Skt.: skandha; Pali: khandha) which can be used to skillfully delineate phenomenological experiences during meditation. Whether as one of the Five Aggregates, meditative concentration (samādhi) on the passing and rising (P. vipassana, S. vipaśyanā) of sañña can lead to mindfulness (P.sati, S. smṛti), clear comprehension (P. sampajanna, S. samprajaña) enlightenment and Arhantship (see Table).

In the Pali Canon, sañña is frequently defined as:

 * "It perceives blue, it perceives yellow, it perceives red, it perceives white."

In post-canonical Pali commentaries, the Visuddhimagga likens sañña to "a child without discretion."

Alternate translations
Alternate translations for the term sañña are:
 * Conceptualization (Herbert Guenther)
 * Distinguishing (Alexander Berzin)
 * Perception (Erik Kunsang, Nina van Gorkom)
 * Recognition (Geoffrey Shatz)
 * Apperception (Susan Hamilton, Luis O. Gómez, David Seyfort Ruegg)

title: Samjna (concept)


text:
Talk:Glory hole (disambiguation)

Time to split the article?
It think it's time to break this article into parts and set up a disambiguation page. There are three separate uses, and each is widely divergent enough that I don't think they belong together anymore. Also, I think the history of the phrase probably goes farther back in glassblowing than the gold rush, but haven't researched that yet.

Please advise me of any objections. -- Un focused  20:34, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

dam
"a glory hole is used when a dam is at full capacity and water needs to be drained from the resevoir."

http://deputy-dog.com/2007/09/09/7-amazing-holes/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.214.251.31 (talk) 21:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Scots versus British
Why was the paragraph about Scots usage changed to say it is informal British? My wife who has a Scots background says it was in use in her household in the 60s while I have never heard of it, I'm English from the south. Kwhitefoot (talk) 18:15, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Other uses?
glory hole is also a term for the heated chambers used by glassblowers to melt the glass. 86.92.89.111 (talk) 18:15, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Glory hole (disambiguation)


text:
The Lantern

The Lantern is an independent daily newspaper in Columbus, Ohio, published by students at Ohio State University. It is one of the largest campus newspapers in the United States, reaching a circulation of 15,000.

Copies of the paper are free and available on campus and throughout Columbus. Editions are published in print Tuesday and Thursday with online content published Wednesdays and Fridays. It does not print in the summer but provides original online content.

The Lantern received attention in 2011 when it reported some members of the school's football team had been selling memorabilia for money and tattoos, violating NCAA rules. In 2019, it earned the Student Press Law Center's Reveille Seven College Press Freedom Award for its pursuit of public records.

History
The paper was chartered in 1881. In 1913, OSU student Frank Mason criticized then-Ohio Governor James M. Cox in the newspaper. The student recommended the school be renamed the "University of Ohio" for more prestige, while the governor reneged due to pressure from Ohio University alumni. Mason's editorial was republished in every daily newspaper in Ohio after AP syndication. Cox (also owner of the Dayton Daily News) told OSU's president William Oxley Thompson to discipline Mason. Thompson asked Joseph S. Myers, the alumni secretary and a Pittsburgh journalist, to head a journalism department and to censor The Lantern against criticizing the governor. Myers created the Ohio State University School of Journalism.

Before 1914, The Lantern was published outside of the university, and writers and editors divided the newspaper's profits. The School of Journalism took on the paper that year, and the newsroom moved to the basement of the original University Hall that year. In 1924, the school moved to a new two-story building, known as the Journalism Building.

In 1965, a riot took place on campus following the arrest of Marjorie Cocoziello, a student fined for jaywalking who had not paid her ticket in time. Reporters for The Lantern published Cocoziello's accounts of a strip-search, being put in a dark cell, and being watched by a cruel jailer. After an investigation, The Columbus Dispatch chided the paper for reporting on the issue so prominently, and only with Cocoziello's side of the story, helping spur the riot.

In September 1974, the old Journalism Building was gutted, and a third story and basement were added. The expansion made for a larger newsroom for the paper, and offices for the paper's advisor, teletype machines, film processing, a library, and a meeting room.

In 1975, student reporters for The Lantern took up investigation of the murder of 14-year-old Christie Lynn Mullins in a wooded area north of campus. Most newspapers in the city already moved to other stories, but two Lantern journalists, Jim Yavorcik and Rick Kelly, retraced the scene, interviewed key people the police had overlooked, and discovered that the police's suspect, Jack Allen Carmen, could not have reached the crime scene in time. The Columbus Monthly gave the two journalists permission to publish in their magazine, which prompted a new trial and the suspect's release. Another Lantern reporter from the same era, John Oller, performed an investigation and wrote a book about the case almost 40 years later which led to the police naming the true killer.

In 1992, The Lantern was one of several U.S. student newspapers to publish a column from Bradley Smith that questioned whether the Holocaust took place. The Lantern's republication resulted in a 250-student protest at the journalism school; the editor refused to apologize or retract the work. The Lantern had published Smith's column with context – a column disparaging Smith's view of history, an anti-Holocoust-denier cartoon, an interview with Smith, and a seven-paragraph explanation of why the paper published the work. In addition to the protest, the paper received negative calls and two altercations, including one involving a student arrested after attempting to force his way into the newsroom.

In Spring 2010, a situation occurred on campus in which two cows escaped from the Veterinary Hospital, and started running loose on campus. After several vet students and faculty were trampled in attempts to wrangle the animals, the Ohio State University Police cordoned off several areas of campus, and eventually resorted to force to stop the cows, who were eventually tranquilized and recaptured with assistance of staff from the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium. During the commotion, a student photographer from The Lantern purportedly disobeyed orders from police officers to leave the area. After claiming freedom of the press, he was arrested for the misconduct. The School of Communication protested the arrest, though the school did not provide the photographer legal aid. Many other journalism outlets took his side, and the photographer was never charged.

Months after news broke that Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor, as well as several other teammates, had been involved with selling memorabilia for tattoos and money, The Lantern published a story on May 25, 2011, in which former football player Ray Small admitted to also selling memorabilia for money. The two reporters on the story, editor-in-chief Zack Meisel and sports reporter James Oldham, received threats from angry Ohio State fans as a result. Meisel, Oldham and The Lantern received national attention for their coverage, including appearances on ESPN's Outside the Lines and in The Wall Street Journal, among others. Head football coach Jim Tressel resigned on May 31, 2011, in response to the scandal.

In 2020, amid the George Floyd protests taking place worldwide, Lantern journalists covered protests in Columbus. During one of the protests on June 1, police forced the paper's journalists away and pepper sprayed them for breaking a mandatory curfew, despite an exemption for journalists among other groups. The incident was put under independent investigation in the following month.

On September 23, 2022, an all-years Lantern reunion, the first in the paper's 141-year history, was held at the Fawcett Center just off campus, with about 150 Lantern alumni from different eras in attendance.

Publication
The Lantern is a laboratory paper that is put together daily by students in the newsroom of the Journalism Building. There are 23 paid student editors and assistant editors who change after completion of two academic semesters. Student reporters, most of whom contribute through the Lantern practicum class, are not paid.

The current faculty adviser for The Lantern is Spencer Hunt, a former reporter at the Columbus Dispatch and Cincinnati Enquirer.

The Lantern publishes all of its news on its website. Visitors may also view print editions of the paper, made available by Issuu.

In addition to the stories in print, the website includes a multimedia section for photo slide shows, videos and a weekly video webcast. Sports and Arts & Life podcasts are also posted on the website.

Sections of The Lantern include Campus, Sports, and Arts and Life.

Awards
In 2011, The Lantern won the "General Excellence" award from the Ohio Newspaper Association (current-day Ohio News Media Association), deeming it the top collegiate newspaper in the state of Ohio. The Lantern's seven wins in the categories of editorial writing, sports coverage, headline writing, photojournalism, design, best newspaper website and news coverage combined to give the newspaper the General Excellence award.

The Lantern also won "Best College Daily Newspaper" in Ohio by the Ohio chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists in 2011.

In 2018, The Lantern won "Best College Newspaper: Non-Daily" in Ohio for the Ohio SPJ Awards. Additionally, reporters also won first and second place for "Best College Feature Writing," "Best College News Writing," and "Best College Sports Writing."

In 2022, The Lantern was recorded as having the third most social engagement of any student run newspaper in the U.S. The publication had 395,020 total shares and online engagement throughout the 2021-2022 academic year. In that same year, the newspaper had an average of 225 shares per article, making it the third highest in the U.S.

Notable alumni

 * Leonard Downie Jr., former executive editor of The Washington Post
 * W. M. Kiplinger, founder of Kiplinger
 * Henry C. Segal, longtime journalist and editor
 * Earl Wilson

title: The Lantern


text:
Talk:Methylene diphenyl diisocyanate

Corrosivity
Is this material corrosive in nature? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.237.36 (talk) 13:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Company-name correction
Yantai Wanhua has changed its name to Wanhua (http://utech-polyurethane.com/news/wanhua-changes-company-name/), it owns Borsodchem (http://utech-polyurethane.com/news/borsodchem-wanhua-merger-plans-hold-correction/)217.36.18.129 (talk) 12:23, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Missing pMDI
The monomer form is rarely used in settings where people may get exposed because the vapors are dangerous. Therefore polymeric MDI (pMDI) is commonly used in adhesives, for example. ref 10 refers to polymers of mdi, not mdi, for this reason. Pmdi is widely used in wood adhesives (particularly particleboard, fiberboard). See frihart, hunt 2021 table 10.1 in wood adhesives: bond formation and performance " ch 10 in wood handbook 166.181.88.2 (talk) 18:56, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Methylene diphenyl diisocyanate


text:
User talk:SkeeloBob

Does anyone use user discussion pages? I didn't think so. I just got upset everytime i looked up and saw a red link on my page.

Stu
Your comments on Stu as a writer are humorous, but are not encyclopedic. They tend to be speculative and a non-neutral comment on Glenn Beck. Please see What Wikipedia is not and Policies and guidelines for more information on what is appropriate, and stop adding information that is not appropriate for Wikipedia. Feel free to add information that is actually factual and useful. Hopefully the links above will be helpful. — Ram-Man (comment) (talk) June 29, 2005 19:25 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Steve_Burguiere.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Steve_Burguiere.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

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You still here?
Got a couple of questions about the C.P.P.S. You don't seem to be around anymore. Shoot me a note if you get this. -- LV (Dark Mark)  18:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Nomination of The Blaze (magazine) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article The Blaze (magazine) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/The Blaze (magazine) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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title: User talk:SkeeloBob


text:
UEFA Women's Championship

The UEFA European Women's Championship, also called the UEFA Women's Euro, held every four years and one year after the men’s UEFA European Championship first held in 1984, is the main competition in women's association football between national teams of the UEFA confederation. The competition is the women's equivalent of the UEFA European Championship. The reigning champions are England, who won their home tournament in 2022. The most successful nation in the history of the tournament is Germany, with eight titles.

History
In 1957 in West Berlin, a European Championship was staged by the International Ladies Football Association. Four teams, representing West Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, and the eventual winners, England, played the tournament at the Poststadion, at a time when women's football teams were officially forbidden by the German Football Association, a ban that was widely defied.

The FICF, which eventually merged into the Italian Football Federation, organised a European tournament in Italy in 1969 for women's national teams, a tournament won by the home team, Italy, who beat Denmark 3–1 in the final. The two nations were also the finalists of the 1970 Women's World Cup in Italy.

Italy hosted another European women's tournament a decade later, the 1979 European Competition for Women's Football – won by Denmark.

UEFA displayed little enthusiasm for women's football and were particularly hostile to Italy's independent women's football federation. Sue Lopez, a member of England's squad, contended that a lack of female representation in UEFA was a contributory factor:

In 1971, UEFA had set up a committee for women's football, composed exclusively of male representatives, and by the time this committee folded in 1978 they had failed to organise any international competitions.

At a conference on 19 February 1980 UEFA resolved to launch its own competition for women's national teams. The meeting minutes had registered the 1979 competition as a "cause for concern". The first UEFA-run international tournament began only in 1982, when the 1984 European Competition for Women's Football qualification was launched. The 1984 Finals were won by Sweden. Norway won the 1987 Finals. Since then, the UEFA Women's Championship has been dominated by Germany, which has won eight out of ten events. Norway won in 1993 and the Netherlands in 2017. Germany's 2013 win had been their sixth in a row. In 2022, England won UEFA Women's Euro 2022, becoming the country's first senior association football team of either gender to win a major tournament since the men's team won the 1966 FIFA World Cup.

From 1984 to 1995, the tournament was initially played as a four-team event. The 1997 edition was the first that was played with eight teams, followed by the 2001 and 2005 editions. The third expansion happened between 2009 and 2013 when 12 teams participated. From 2017 onwards 16 teams compete for the championship.

The first three tournaments of the UEFA competition in the 1980s had the name "European Competition for Representative Women's Teams". With UEFA's increasing acceptance of women's football, this competition was given European Championship status by UEFA around 1990. Only the 1991 and 1995 editions have been used as European qualifiers for a FIFA Women's World Cup; starting in 1999, women's national teams adopted the separate World Cup qualifying competition and group system used in men's qualifiers.

Summary

 * * hosts
 * 1 named West Germany until 1990

Medal table
In the 1987, 1989, 1991 and 1993 tournaments there was a third place playoff. Since 1995, both losing semi-finalists are counted as bronze. Only Norway and Germany have won multiple titles.

Overall team records
In this ranking 3 points are awarded for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. As per statistical convention in football, matches decided in extra time are counted as wins and losses, while matches decided by penalty shoot-outs are counted as draws. Teams are ranked by total points, then by goal difference, then by goals scored.

Team results by tournament
Legend
 * – Champions
 * – Runners-up
 * – Third place (not determined after 1993)
 * – Fourth place (not determined after 1993)
 * – Semi-finals (since 1995)
 * – Quarter-finals (since 2009)
 * GS – Group stage
 * Q – Qualified for upcoming tournament
 * – Did not qualify
 * – Did not enter / Withdrew / Banned
 * – Hosts

For each tournament, the number of teams in each finals tournament (in brackets) are shown.

Notes:
 * The team was created only 1990 and did not participate in continental competitions.
 * The team was created only 1990 and did not participate in continental competitions.
 * Most of the countries of the "Eastern Bloc" ("Socialist camp") did not field their women teams.

UEFA.com Golden Player by tournament
1Official player of the tournament since 2013

Highest attendances

 * 87,192 – England v Germany, Wembley, London (2022 final)
 * 68,871 – England v Austria, Old Trafford, Manchester (2022 group stage)
 * 41,301 – Germany v Norway, Friends Arena, Solna (2013 final)
 * 30,785 - England v Northern Ireland, St Mary's Stadium, Southampton (2022 group stage)
 * 29,092 – England v Finland, City of Manchester Stadium, Manchester (2005 group stage)
 * 28,994 – England v Spain, Falmer Stadium, Brighton and Hove (2022 quarter-final)
 * 28,847 – England v Norway, Falmer Stadium, Brighton and Hove (2022 group stage)
 * 28,624 – England v Sweden, Bramall Lane, Sheffield (2022 semi-final)
 * 28,182 – Netherlands v Denmark, De Grolsch Veste, Enschede (2017 final)
 * 27,445 – Germany v France, Stadium MK, Milton Keynes (2022 semi-final)

title: UEFA Women's Championship