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New York Yacht Club

The New York Yacht Club (NYYC) is a private social club and yacht club based in New York City and Newport, Rhode Island. It was founded in 1844 by nine prominent sportsmen. The members have contributed to the sport of yachting and yacht design. As of 2001, the organization was reported to have about 3,000 members. Membership in the club is by invitation only. Its officers include a commodore, vice-commodore, rear-commodore, secretary and treasurer.

The club is headquartered at the New York Yacht Club Building in New York City. The America's Cup trophy was won by members in 1851 and held by the NYYC until 1983. The NYYC successfully defended the trophy twenty-four times in a row before being defeated by the Royal Perth Yacht Club, represented by the yacht Australia II. The NYYC's reign was the longest winning streak as measured by years in the history of all sports.

The NYYC entered 2021 and 2024 America's Cup competition under the syndicate name American Magic.

Clubhouses
In 1845, the club's first clubhouse was established—a modest, Gothic-revival building in Hoboken, New Jersey, designed by architect Alexander Jackson Davis, on land donated by Commodore John Cox Stevens. After outgrowing its cramped quarters, the club moved to the McFarlane–Bredt House in Staten Island, then to Madison Avenue in Manhattan. The Hoboken clubhouse itself was physically relocated to Glen Cove, New York, then to Mystic, Connecticut.

Main Clubhouse New York City

The present primary clubhouse is the New York Yacht Club Building, a six-storied Beaux-Arts landmark with a nautical-themed limestone facade, at 37 West 44th Street in Midtown Manhattan. Opened in 1901, the clubhouse was designed by Warren and Wetmore (1898), who later helped design Grand Central Terminal. The centerpiece of the clubhouse is the "Model Room", which contains a notable collection of full and half hull models including a scale model history of all New York Yacht Club America's Cup challenges. It was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1987.

As Penn Club of New York (est. 1901) became the first alumni clubhouse to join Clubhouse Row for inter-club events at 30 West 44th Street after Harvard Club of New York City (est. 1888) at 27 West 44th, New York Yacht Club (est. 1899) became the first non-alumni clubhouse to join at 37 West 44th, then Yale Club of New York City (est. 1915) on East 44th (and Vanderbilt) and Cornell Club of New York (est. 1989) at 6 East 44th on the same block, with Princeton Club of New York joining in 1963 at 15 West 43rd (the only alumni clubhouse who wasn't on 44th Street, whose members, part of the staff, and in-residence club, Williams College Club of New York were absorbed into Penn Club following a previous visiting reciprocity agreement between the Princeton-Penn Clubs, before Princeton's went out of business during COVID). Despite being in New York City, Columbia University Club of New York (est. 1901) left Princeton after residence agreement issues to become in-residence at The Penn Club, while Dartmouth shares the Yale Club, and Brown shares the Cornell Club.

Harbour Court, Newport Rhode Island

To better host regattas, in 1988, the club purchased an impressive water front property in Newport, Rhode Island.

History
The New York Yacht Club was founded on July 30, 1844, by nine gentlemen. John Cox Stevens, the leader of this group, and a prominent citizen of New York with a passion for sports, was elected commodore. John Clarkson Jay of Rye, one of the nine founders, was a grandson of Founding Father John Jay and served as the first Secretary of the board. George L. Schuyler and Hamilton Wilkes were also NYYC founders who, together with Stevens and two others, created the syndicate that built and raced the great schooner-yacht, America. Wilkes served as the club's first vice-commodore. Schuyler played a key role in the founding of the America's Cup regatta, and served as its unofficial consultant until his death in 1890.

In 1845, the club's burgee was designed. The waters off Newport have been a key sailing venue for the NYYC since the beginning of its history. Indeed, the day the club was founded in 1844, its members resolved to sail from the Battery to Newport. Two days later, they did, with several stops on the way, and trials of speed.

During the first decades of the club's history, racing for prize money was the objective among most members. In 1851, a syndicate of NYYC enthusiasts built and raced America, capturing the "One Hundred Sovereign Cup" at the annual regatta of the Royal Yacht Squadron. On July 8, 1857, the coveted trophy was donated to the NYYC, to serve as a challenge cup for sportsmanlike competition between nations. The "America's Cup Race", named for its first winner, played a central role in the history of the club until this day.

In 1865, the club was incorporated, adopting the Latin motto: "Nos agimur tumidis velis" – "We go with swelling sails" (adapted from the verse of the famous Roman poet Horace, "Non agimur tumidis uelis", "We do not go with swelling sails", in Epistles, 2, 2, 201). During this time, membership transitioned from the "old guard" to a new generation of yachtsmen, who built large schooner yachts captained by professionals. Marking this evolution was the 1866 resignation of Commodore Edwin Augustus Stevens, brother of founder John Cox Stevens and member of the America syndicate.

The year 1866 is remembered in club annals for the legendary "Transatlantic Race". In December, the NYYC schooners Henrietta, Fleetwing, and Vesta raced from Sandy Hook to The Needles, Isle of Wight for a $90,000 winner-take-all prize. The Henrietta, owned by 21-year-old James Gordon Bennett Jr., and skippered by Captain Samuel S. Samuels, won the race in 13 days, 21 hours and 55 minutes. Bennett would be elected commodore in 1871.

On August 8, 1870, the schooner Magic represented the New York Yacht Club in the international 1870 America's Cup competition in the New York Harbor and was won by Franklin Osgood's American yacht Magic. She beat 17 competitors, including the English yacht Cambria and the yachts Dauntless, Idler, Fleetwing, Phantom, America and others.

In 1876, the Mohawk, a large centerboard schooner, capsized due to its sheets being "made fast" (fastened securely) when a freak squall struck. Vice-Commodore William T. Garner, his wife and crew died in the accident. It is believed that this tragedy led to the extinction of the great centerboard schooner yachts. The Mohawk was later sold to the U.S. Navy and recommissioned as the USS Eagre.

In 1895, Richard H. Barker composed 'The yacht club march: march and two-step: for piano' in honor of the New York Yacht Club.

In 1994, as part of the club's 150th anniversary celebrations, Melissa H. Harrington wrote the book The New York Yacht Club, 1844–1994.

New York Yacht Club Stations c. 1894
By 1894, the New York Yacht Club had a number of Clubhouses: Station 1 in Bay Ridge; 2 in New York NY; 3 in Whitestone NY; 4 in New London, Connecticut; 5 in Shelter Island, New York; 6 in Newport RI; 7 in Vineyard Haven and at Rendezvous Glen Cove. In 1868, the club bought a big mansion used as Station 2 at Rosebank, Staten Island. This building still stands and is known as the McFarlane–Bredt House.

Former Commodore J. P. Morgan was present at a board meeting on 27 October 1898 to discuss the construction of a new clubhouse. Morgan offered to acquire a 75 by plot on 44th Street in midtown Manhattan if the NYYC raised its annual membership dues from $25 to $50 and if the new clubhouse occupied the entire site. The board accepted his offer, and Morgan bought the lots the next day for $148,000 and donated to the club.

Members hosted an informal housewarming party on 29 January 1901 and gave Morgan a trophy in gratitude of his purchase of the site.

Racing and the America's Cup
Following the disastrous Bay of Quinte America's Cup challenge in 1881, the club's committee voted a new rule to govern its races:

 * $$\text{Rating}=\frac{2 \cdot \text{Load Waterline Length}+ \sqrt{\text{Sail Area}}}{3}$$

The America's Cup challenges of 1885, 1886 and 1887 used this rule with an 85 ft waterline length limit. In 1887, the NYYC adopted the Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club's rating rule, which handicapped length comparatively less. Then, in 1903, the NYYC changed its rating system to the "Herreshoff Rule", devised by the yacht designer, Nathanael Herreshoff. Later renamed the "Universal Rule", it would be adopted by the majority of leading American yacht clubs. The rule governed yacht design for almost forty years.

The America's Cup was held for 132 years, from 1851 until Australia II defeated Dennis Conner's Liberty off Newport, Rhode Island in 1983. This record remains the longest winning streak in sports history.

Since the loss of the Cup the NYYC has been forced to reinvent itself and the club has become involved in team racing, dinghy racing, youth sailing, and international regattas. In 2002 the Club hosted the Intercollegiate Sailing Association Sloop North American Championships. In 2006 the Club hosted the Blind Sailing World Championships.

The NYYC entered 2021 America's Cup represented by the American Magic team, led by Terry Hutchinson and Bella Mente Quantum Racing Association. In May 2018, it was announced that Dean Barker will helm the boat. "American Magic" references the first Cup winner, the yacht America, and the first defender, the yacht Magic.

Regattas

The club has held a number of World Championships including J/70 World Championship, Melges 20 World Championship, Melges 32 World Championship, Etchells World Championship, Farr 40 World Championship, TP52 World Championship and 12-metre Worlds.
 * "Annual Regatta", started in 1846
 * NYYC Invitational Cup
 * 2005 Rolex Transatlantic Challenge
 * "New York Yacht Club Cruise", an annual series of races held in July or August
 * "Queen's Cup Trophy"
 * "Una Cup"
 * "Corsair Cup"
 * "Astor Cups"
 * "Solution Trophy"

Notable members

 * Winthrop W. Aldrich
 * Brooke Astor
 * John Jacob Astor, real estate mogul
 * Vincent Astor
 * George Fisher Baker
 * August Belmont
 * James Gordon Bennett Jr., newspaper publisher
 * Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of New York City
 * John Nicholas Brown II, philanthropist
 * Frederick Gilbert Bourne
 * William F. Buckley, author and commentator
 * William A. Chanler, explorer, soldier and US Congressman
 * Robert H. Conn, Assistant Secretary of the Navy
 * Dennis Conner, racing yacht captain
 * William P. Cronan, 19th Naval Governor of Guam
 * Walter Cronkite, newscaster
 * Chris Dodd, United States senator
 * Pete DuPont, governor of Delaware
 * Elbridge Thomas Gerry
 * Jay Gould, railroad tycoon
 * James Alexander Hamilton, 3rd son of Alexander Hamilton, won first America's Cup in 1851
 * Alfred Walton Hinds, 17th Naval Governor of Guam
 * Charles Oliver Iselin
 * Charles O'Neal, politician
 * Arthur Curtiss James
 * Gary Jobson
 * Edward Kennedy Jr., son of United States Senator
 * Dennis Kozlowski (resigned)
 * Herbert F. Leary, Vice admiral in the Navy
 * Lewis Cass Ledyard
 * John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy
 * Bernard Madoff (resigned)
 * Clarence Moore, businessman
 * J. P. Morgan, financier
 * J. P. Morgan Jr.
 * Junius Spencer Morgan III
 * Emil Mosbacher
 * Robert Mosbacher
 * Franklin Osgood (1826–1888), served three terms as Rear-Commodore; member of first America's Cup Committee (1869)
 * Frank F. Olney (1851–1903), 18th Mayor of Providence, Rhode Island
 * Trenor Luther Park elected 1883, owned the Sultana
 * Jonas M. Platt, major general in the Marine Corps
 * David Rockefeller, banker
 * Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States
 * Gary Roughead, 29th Chief of Naval Operations, US Navy
 * Arthur J. Santry, Jr. Chief Executive Officer, Combustion Engineering and Commodore NYYC
 * Elliott Fitch Shepard, lawyer and newspaper owner
 * Alfred P. Sloan
 * George J. Smith, U.S. Congressman and cigar manufacturer
 * John Cox Stevens
 * Olin Stephens, yacht designer
 * Ted Turner, media mogul
 * Cornelius Vanderbilt III, Army general
 * Harold Stirling Vanderbilt, railroad executive
 * Thomas Watson Jr.

title: New York Yacht Club


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Indian mathematicians

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was -- The option that appeals most to me is the last one given - Nuke the article (It has no unique information; two of the names are red, and the only blue name is already in Indian mathematicians) and then move Indian mathematicians to this article. So it is written, so let it be done. --Golbez 18:56, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

List of Indian mathematicians
This list is not significant enough to warrant a seperate article. There are only three entries here, only one of which has a real article. There is alread a List of mathematicians article. List of Indian mathematicians is somewhat presumptous and nationalistic considering there is no such list for famous French or English or Russian mathematicians, who greatly out-number Indian ones. 172.144.98.81 03:10, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. The list would look a lot better if it wasn't looks a lot better when not divided into mostly-empty alphabetical categories (really that's what makes it appear presumptious). But it seems that the better practice would be to make the missing lists (French, English, Russian mathematicians), which would certainly be in keeping with lists of persons in various other fields by nationality. -- BD2412 talk 03:51, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC)
 * Keep. I've seen much more insignificant lists. Make lists for countries with substantial mathematical traditions. -- Barfooz  (talk)  05:49, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Indian mathematicians (under whichever title is the more consistent with style). Average Earthman 06:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: It seems somewhat presumptuous to try to force people from one country to wait until some other countries' lists have been created. Kappa 07:27, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep The problem isn't the existence of this list, it's the lack of the existence of the other lists for French and Russian mathematicians, IMO. --Mysidia 07:37, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Create categories for Indian, French, Russian etc. mathematicians instead of creating more lists - Skysmith 08:43, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Categories cannot be annotated, formatted, rearranged, easily copied, merged or split, or have multiple titles for the same entry. They also don't work on most wikipedia mirrors. Kappa 09:52, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * While there are merits to the points in your first sentence, it's not our task to worry about Wikipedia mirrors, which in general disregard GFDL freedoms/protections and don't contribute to the cost of all this not-paper. Barno 19:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge. until with Indian mathematicians until the list has some more meat to it. And note to Skysmith, lists and categories are different and can be used simultaneously. Putting red links at the top of cats is ugly and you can't add b-dates to them. - Mgm|(talk) 09:04, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Indian mathematicians. As per Earthman. JamesBurns 10:55, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No need for this as Indian mathematicians perfectly suits the need. --Oneliner 12:36, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * So after deleting this, what will happen the next time someone wants to start a List of Indian mathematicians? Kappa 13:41, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * We tell them there already is one under Indian mathematicians? Average Earthman 17:33, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * And we have another Vfd on the matter? Kappa 17:35, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * So leave a redirect under the List title, getting users to the desired information instead of having them recreate it, leading to a duplicate VfD. Barno 19:15, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Indian mathematicians --Carnildo 21:50, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and move Indian mathematicians over it. Per Wikipedia naming conventions lists should have "list of" prefix so this is the right title for Indian mathematicians.  Grue   18:21, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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Category talk:Artist stubs

Untitled
I was going to add back the TOC template that was added by User:Tabletop on April Fool's Day, but thought better of it. People-stub categories do not allow alphabetization by surname; therefore, the alphabetized list is by given name, and the TOC doesn't help as much in finding someone in a stub category as it does in a "normal" category. If you feel strongly about having it in, though, please add it back. Courtland 03:11, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC)

Question: I added material to Adrian Piper and I deleted the "stub" designation. But how does the article get removed from the list? I also looked at Barbara Kruger. Lots there. I took off the Stub designation from her page, but don't know if that gets her off this list.--Sue Maberry 04:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Where are the printmakers?
They don't have a sub-category eg Master I.A.M. of Zwolle is in neither the painters nor the illustrators. Fallen between the cracks? Johnbod 02:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

redlinked - well, he's on the big big list so lets try again Master I. A. M. of Zwolle - oh I forgot the SPACES!!!??!! Johnbod 03:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

What about performers? and comedians?
Aren't there stubs for them? --Tyranny Sue (talk) 07:07, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Artist stubs


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User:RABot/Requested articles

The requests are on subpages which are categorized into the various broad subjects. If you can't find what you are looking for try the other categorization schemes (by alphabetical order). Click on the heading to go to the requested articles in that category or click the smaller topics to go to created articles about them. Please do not list requests on this page.

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Other classification schemes
Includes: By the Dewey Decimal System - By Library of Congress classification - By academic discipline - Lists by category - All articles by title - By historical year - By anniversary - Themed timelines - Reference tables - Biographies - Countries - How-tos

title: User:RABot/Requested articles


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User:UnfathomableJ

I'm a student at University of Oregon. Junior status. History, Chinese, Asian Studies majors, Political Science minor. Hoping to become a professional student at University of London's School of Oriental and Asian Studies eventually (when I can get the money), and recieve a degree in Sinology. Also, hoping to go to China in 2008. I do a lot of things, I'm in the Jewish fraternity Alpha Epsilon Pi as a Reform Jew (I also prescribe to a lot of theological ideas, but one could label me as a Deist, a Strong Agnostic, and above all, an amalgam of Zhuangzi-styled Daoist, Mencius-styled Confucian, and Chan Buddhist. I love fine beers and whiskey. I speak Spanish pretty decently (as per a 2nd year college speaker), and have just begun learning Mandarin (paticularly, the traditional script along with the simplified). I know bits and pieces of Japanese, Vietnamese, and can read Hebrew (but cannot understand it for the most part).

Things in Eugene are generally chill, so it's a rather nice spot to visit when it is warmer and not raining all the damn time.

Anyways, that's me.

title: User:UnfathomableJ


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Davis Phinney

Davis Phinney (born July 10, 1959) is a retired professional road bicycle racer from the United States. He won 328 races in the 1980s and 1990s, a record for an American, including two Tour de France stages. He has worked in media since retiring as a professional cyclist. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at age 40.

Racing cyclist
He was a brazen sprinter and a star of the 7-Eleven Cycling Team in the 1980s and early '90s, and is the leader in race victories by an American, with 328. In 1986, he became the second American to win a stage at the Tour de France, while riding for American-based 7-Eleven. His racing career spanned two decades and included two stage victories in the Tour de France, a United States National Road Race Championships title, and the 1984 Olympic Bronze Medal in the Men's 100 km Team Time Trial along with Ron Kiefel, Roy Knickman, and Andrew Weaver.

Aside from Greg LeMond, Phinney is the only American rider to make a legitimate run at winning the Green Jersey in the Tour de France. LeMond and he are the only two American riders to come in the top three of this classification. Phinney finished second in the points classification during the 1988 Tour de France.

Career after racing
Since retiring from cycling, Phinney has remained active as a cycling sports commentator, public speaker, journalist, and avid Nordic ski racer.

Family
He is married to champion cyclist Connie Carpenter-Phinney, with whom he has two children, Taylor and Kelsey. On August 9, 2007, Taylor became the Junior World Time Trial champion at the 2007 UCI Junior World Road and Track Championships held in Aguascalientes, Mexico, and on September 29, 2010, he became the 2010 UCI Under 23 World Time Trial champion.

Parkinson's disease
Phinney was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at age 40, and established the Davis Phinney Foundation in 2004, a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. As Taylor was about to go to the Beijing Olympics late in 2008, Davis underwent deep brain stimulation in an effort to control some of his symptoms. Jaimie Henderson, a neurosurgeon at Stanford University Medical Center, implanted two electrodes 2.5 in into either side of Phinney's brain, powered by a pacemaker in his chest. According to ESPN, the procedure was risky and not promising, but worked instantly. Phinney explained:

"The doctor said, 'OK, let's try a little current now, and just like that, all these muscles that had been at war with each other suddenly were at peace. It was like Armistice Day. It was just like, 'Oh … my … god!' I looked at my wife and she was crying. She said, 'I haven't seen your smile in a year!'"

By 2012, the disease was setting in again. Doctors told him the brain pacemaker could turn the clock back on the progress of Parkinson's five years. Four years after the surgery, while Phinney did not shake like he used to, his balance was severely compromised.

Major results

 * 1981
 * Coors Classic
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
 * 1st Stage 6

 * 1982
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification Coors Classic

 * 1983
 * 1st Gold medal blank.svg Team time trial, Pan American Games
 * Coors Classic
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
 * 1st Stages 2, 4, 5b & 9

 * 1984
 * 1st Stage 7 GP Tell
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification Coors Classic
 * Olympic Games
 * 3rd Bronze medal olympic.svg Team time trial
 * 5th Road race

 * 1985
 * Coors Classic
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
 * 1st Stages 3 & 13
 * 5th Milano–Torino
 * 8th Overall Étoile de Bessèges

 * 1986
 * 1st Stage 3 Tour de France
 * Coors Classic
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
 * 1st Stages 2b, 4b & 11b

 * 1987
 * 1st Stage 12 Tour de France
 * 9th Overall Coors Classic
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
 * 1st Stage 10

 * 1988
 * 1st Jersey yellow.svg Overall Coors Classic
 * 1st Prologue, Stages 4b, 6a & 8
 * 1st Stage 6 Tour de Romandie

 * 1989
 * 5th Overall Tour de Trump
 * 1st Stages 8 & 9

 * 1990
 * 3rd Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne

 * 1991
 * 1st MaillotUSA.PNG Road race, National Road Championships
 * 1st Fitchburg Longsjo Classic
 * Tour DuPont
 * 1st Jersey green.svg Points classification
 * 1st Stage 1

 * 1993
 * 1st Fitchburg Longsjo Classic

title: Davis Phinney


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Shanti Bahini

The Shanti Bahini (শান্তি বাহিনী; meaning "Peace Force") was the armed wing of the Parbatya Chattagram Jana Samhati Samiti (United People's Party of the Chittagong Hill Tracts) in Bangladesh. It is considered an insurgent group in Bangladesh. The Shanti Bahini was made out of mostly members from the Chakma tribe.

History
Following the independence of Bangladesh in 1971, Manabendra Narayan Larma founded the Parbatya Chattagram Jana Samhati Samiti (PCJSS) on 15 February 1972, seeking to build an organization representing all the tribal peoples of the Chittagong Hill Tracts. Larma was elected to the Bangladesh Jatiya Sangsad, the national legislature of Bangladesh as a candidate of the PCJSS in 1973. When Larma's continued efforts to make the government recognize the rights of the tribal peoples through political discussions had failed, Larma and the PCJSS began organizing the Shanti Bahini (Peace Corps), an armed force operating in the Hill Tracts area. It was formed in 1972 and fought for many years against the government.

Shanti Bahini began attacking Bangladesh Army convoys in 1977. They carried out kidnappings and extortion. Larma subsequently went into hiding from government security forces. Factionalism within the PCJS weakened Larma's standing and he was assassinated on 10 November 1983. On 23 June 1981 the Shanti Bahini attacked a camp of Bangladesh rifles, killing 13 people. They later captured and executed 24 members of the Bangladesh rifles.

Massacres
In the 1980s the Government of Bangladesh started to provide land for thousands of landless Bengali. Many Bengali were forced to move to secure regions because of the insurgency, abandoning their land to the tribal communities. On 31 May, 1984 Shanti Bahini members allegedly killed 400 people in Bhushanchhara. On 29 April 1986, Shanti Bahini massacred 19 Bengali. On 26 June 1989 the Shanti Bahini burned down villages where inhabitants had voted in Bangladeshi elections. In 1996 Shanti Bahini abducted and killed 30 Bengalis. On 9 September 1996, the Shanti Bahini massacred a group of Bengali lumberjacks, who were under the impression they'd been called to a meeting. Members of Shanti Bahini extracted some four million dollars from the local population in the name of toll collection.

Peace Accord
On 2 December 1997, the Chittagong Hill Tracts Peace Accord was signed between the government and the Parbatya Chattagram Jana Samhati Samiti and the Shanti Bahini promised to abandon militancy. Members of Shanti Bahini surrendered their weapons in a stadium in Khagrachari. The treaty saw the lifting of nighttime curfew and the return of 50 thousand refugees. However, some members opposed to the peace deal formed a dissident group. Some of those who opposed the peace treaty formed the United People's Democratic Front as an alternate to the PCJSS. The treaty was also criticised by the Bangladesh Nationalist Party and has not been fully implemented. Some members of Shanti Bahini became police officers after the peace treaty. In August 2014 Indian Border Security Forces arrested members of Shanti Bahini, two Bangladeshi Chakmas and three Indian national Chakmas with weapons in Mizoram.

After the assassination of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and the removal of Bangladesh Awami League from in 1975, India provided support and shelter to the members of Shanti Bahini. Members of Shanti Bahini were trained in Chakrata, India.

title: Shanti Bahini


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Zaleplon

Zaleplon, sold under the brand name Sonata among others, is a sedative and hypnotic which is used to treat insomnia. It is a nonbenzodiazepine or Z-drug of the pyrazolopyrimidine class. It was developed by King Pharmaceuticals and approved for medical use in the United States in 1999.

Medical uses
Zaleplon is slightly effective in treating insomnia, primarily characterized by difficulty falling asleep. Zaleplon significantly reduces the time required to fall asleep by improving sleep latency and may therefore facilitate sleep induction rather than sleep maintenance. Due to its ultrashort elimination half-life, zaleplon may not be effective in reducing premature awakenings; however, it may be administered to alleviate middle-of-the-night awakenings. However, zaleplon has not been empirically shown to increase total sleep time.

Zaleplon does not significantly affect driving performance the morning following bedtime administration or 4 hours after middle-of-the-night administration. It may have advantages over benzodiazepines with fewer adverse effects.

Special populations
Zaleplon is not recommended for chronic use in the elderly. The elderly are more sensitive to the adverse effects of zaleplon such as cognitive side effects. Zaleplon may increase the risk of injury among the elderly. It should not be used during pregnancy or lactation. Clinicians should devote more attention when prescribing for patients with a history of alcohol or drug abuse, psychotic illness, or depression.

In addition, some contend the efficacy and safety of long-term use of these agents remains to be enumerated, but nothing concrete suggests long-term use poses any direct harm to a person.

Adverse effects
The adverse effects of zaleplon are similar to the adverse effects of benzodiazepines, although with less next-day sedation, and in two studies zaleplon use was found not to cause an increase in traffic accidents, as compared to other hypnotics currently on the market.

Sleeping pills, including zaleplon, have been associated with an increased risk of death.

Some evidence suggests zaleplon is not as chemically reinforcing and exhibits far fewer rebound effects when compared with other nonbenzodiazepines, or Z-drugs.

Interactions
The CYP3A4 liver enzyme is a minor metabolic pathway for zaleplon, normally metabolizing about 9% of the drug. CYP3A4 inducers such as rifampicin, phenytoin, carbamazepine, and phenobarbital can reduce the effectiveness of zaleplon, and therefore the FDA suggests that other hypnotic drugs be considered in patients taking a CYP3A4 inducer.

Additional sedation has been observed when zaleplon is combined with thioridazine, but it is not clear whether this was due to merely an additive effect of taking two sedative drugs at once or a true drug-drug interaction. Diphenhydramine, a weak inhibitor of aldehyde oxidase, has not been found to affect the pharmacokinetics of zaleplon.

Mechanism of action
Zaleplon is a high-selectivity, high-affinity ligand of positive modulator sites of GABAA receptors, which enhances GABAergic inhibition of neurotransmission in the central nervous system. The ultrashort half-life gives zaleplon a unique advantage over other hypnotics because of its lack of next-day residual effects on driving and other performance-related skills. Unlike nonselective benzodiazepine drugs and zopiclone, which distort the sleep pattern, zaleplon appears to induce sleep without disrupting the normal sleep architecture.

A meta-analysis of randomized, controlled clinical trials which compared benzodiazepines against zaleplon or other Z-drugs such as zolpidem, zopiclone, and eszopiclone has found few clear and consistent differences between zaleplon and the benzodiazepines in terms of sleep onset latency, total sleep duration, number of awakenings, quality of sleep, adverse events, tolerance, rebound insomnia, and daytime alertness.

Zaleplon should be understood as an ultrashort-acting sedative-hypnotic drug for the treatment of insomnia. Zaleplon increases EEG power density in the δ-frequency band and a decrease in the energy of the θ-frequency band

Pharmacokinetics
Zaleplon is primarily metabolised by aldehyde oxidase into 5-oxozaleplon, and its half-life may be affected by substances which inhibit or induce aldehyde oxidase. According to urine analysis, about 9% of zaleplon is metabolized by CYP3A4 to form desethylzaleplon, which is quickly metabolized by aldehyde oxidase to 5-oxodesethylzaleplon. All of these metabolites are inactive. When taken orally, zaleplon reaches maximum concentration in about 45 minutes.

Chemistry
Zaleplon is classified as a pyrazolopyrimidine. Pure zaleplon in its solid state is a white to off-white powder with very low solubility in water, as well as low solubility in ethanol and propylene glycol. It has a constant octanol-water partition coefficient of log P = 1.23 in the pH range between 1 and 7.

Synthesis
The synthesis starts with the condensation of 3-acetylacetanilide (1) with N,N-dimethylformamide dimethyl acetal (DMFDMA) to give the eneamide (2). The anilide nitrogen is then alkylated by means of sodium hydride and ethyl iodide to give 3. The first step in the condensation with 3-amino-4-cyanopyrazole can be visualized as involving an addition-elimination reaction sequence on the eneamide function to give a transient intermediate such as 5. Cyclization then leads to formation of the fused pyrimidine ring to afford zaleplon (6).

Recreational use
Zaleplon has the potential to be a drug of recreational use, and has been found to have an addictive potential similar to benzodiazepine and benzodiazepine-like hypnotics.

Some individuals use a different delivery method than prescribed, such as insufflation, to induce effects faster.

Anterograde amnesia can occur and can cause one to lose track of the amount of zaleplon already ingested, prompting the ingesting of more than originally planned.

Aviation use
The Federal Aviation Administration allows zaleplon with a 12-hour wait period and no more than twice a week, which makes it the sleep medication with the shortest allowed waiting period after use. The substances with the 2nd shortest period, which is of 24 hours, are zolpidem and ramelteon.

Military use
The United States Air Force uses zaleplon as one of the hypnotics approved as a "no-go pill" to help aviators and special-duty personnel sleep in support of mission readiness (with a four-hour restriction on subsequent flight operation). "Ground tests" are required prior to authorization being issued to use the medication in an operational situation. The other hypnotics used as "no-go pills" are temazepam and zolpidem, which both have longer mandatory recovery periods.

title: Zaleplon


text: Category:Ethnic group stubs

title: Category:Ethnic group stubs


text:
Parbatya Chattagram Jana Samhati Samiti

The Parbatya Chattagram Jana Samhati Samiti (পার্বত্য চট্টগ্রাম জনসংহতি সমিতি; United People's Party of the Chittagong Hill Tracts; abbreviated PCJSS) is a left wing political party formed to represent the people and indigenous tribes of the Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh. Since its inception in 1972, the PCJSS has fought for autonomy and the recognition of the ethnic identity and rights of the indigenous tribes of the Hill Tracts. Its military arm, the Shanti Bahini was used to fight government forces and Bengali settlers in the Hill Tracts. A peace accord was signed in 1997 led to the disarmament of the Shanti Bahini and enabled the PCJSS to return to mainstream politics.

Background
The roots of the PCJSS can be traced to the Hill Tracts Students' Association and the Parbatya Chattagram Upajatiya Kalyan Samiti (United People's Welfare and Development Party of the Chittagong Hill Tracts) that were organised in the 1960s in what was then-East Pakistan. The organisations agitated on behalf of the 100,000 native peoples displaced by the construction of the Kaptai Dam, seeking rehabilitation and compensation. After the creation of Bangladesh in 1971, representatives of the Chittagong Hill Tracts such as the Chakma politicians Charu Bikash Chakma and Manabendra Narayan Larma sought autonomy and recognition of the rights of the peoples of the region. Larma and others protested the draft of the Constitution of Bangladesh, although the Constitution recognised the ethnic identity but Larma and others wanted full sovereignty and separation from Bangladesh. The government policy of recognised only the Bengali culture and the Bengali language and designating all citizens of Bangladesh as Bengalis. In talks with Hill Tracts delegation led by Manabendra Narayan Larma, the country's founding leader Sheikh Mujibur Rahman insisted that the ethnic groups of the Hill Tracts adopt the Bengali identity. Sheikh Mujib is also reported to have threatened to forcibly settle Bengalis in the Hill Tracts to reduce the native peoples into a minority. The PCJSS held its first national conference on 24 June 1972 at Indrapuri Cinema Hall of Rangamati town. A 60-member Central Committee of PCJSS was constituted with Birendra Kishore Roaza as president and M N Larma as the general secretary.

Four-point manifesto and foundation
On 24 April 1972 Manabendra Narayan Larma presented a four-point manifesto to the constitution drafting committee, which sought:

 * 1) Autonomy for the Chittagong Hill Tracts and the creation of its own Legislative Assembly.
 * 2) Inclusion in the constitution of a statute like the Regulation of 1900 that safeguarded the identity and rights of the people of the Hill Tracts.
 * 3) Preservation of the positions of tribal chiefs and tribal customs and laws.
 * 4) Prohibition of amendments to the statute enshrining the Regulation of 1900 and the settlement of Bengalis in the Hill Tracts.

The manifesto was summarily rejected by the government, causing resentment and dissatisfaction amongst the people of the Hill Tracts. On 15 February 1973 representatives and activists of the Hill Tracts founded the Parbatya Chhattagram Jana Samhatti Samiti (PCJSS) under Manabendra Narayan Larma's leadership. The party's official aims and objectives included humanism, nationalism, democracy, secularism and the protection of the rights, culture and ethnic identity, and autonomy for the tribes of the Hill Tracts. The PCJSS sought to unify and represent all the tribes of the Hill Tracts and also organised a committee of villages, a students and youth wing and a women's wing of the party.

Insurgency
Dissatisfaction and anger due to government opposition to their demands led the PCJSS to organise the Shanti Bahini (Peace forces) as military force to launch an armed struggle to win autonomy and secure the rights of the people of the Hill Tracts. Many insurgents are believed to have trained, equipped and sheltered in the neighbouring Indian state of Tripura. During the insurgency, the PCJSS strongly opposed the government-driven settlement of Bengalis in the Hill Tracts as a ploy to marginalise the tribes in their home region. The PCJSS also rejected the Chittagong Hill Tracts Development Board and other government plans for local councils. After an insurgency that lasted for almost two decades, the PCJSS entered into peace talks with the government after the restoration of democracy in 1991. However, little progress was made with the government of prime minister Khaleda Zia and her Bangladesh Nationalist Party. Fresh rounds of talks began in 1996 with the newly elected prime minister Sheikh Hasina Wajed of the Awami League, the daughter of Sheikh Mujib. The peace accord was finalised and formally signed on 2 December 1997. The peace accord provided for greater autonomy, the return of land to displaced tribals and special status for the ethnic groups and tribes. The accord also created a central ministry of tribal affairs and an elected regional council that would be empowered to govern the Hill Tracts and oversee local tribal councils. The accord also granted official recognition of the ethnic groups and tribes.

After the treaty was signed, Shanti Bahini insurgents formally laid down their arms and more than 50,000 displaced tribals were able to return to their homes. The PCJSS emerged as a mainstream political party.

Recent activities
Since the peace accord, the PCJSS has emerged as a mainstream political party and is currently headed by Jyotirindra Bodhipriya Larma, the younger brother of Manabendra Narayan Larma, who is also the chairman of the CHT regional council. The PCJSS has continued to agitate for the full and proper implementation of the peace accord and has alleged lack of government action and intimidation from security forces. The PCJSS has protested the rise of Islamism and Islamic terrorism in the region from groups based in Bangladesh and neighbouring Burma. JSS militants are alleged to have killed the first Muslim convert Omar Faruk Tripura, founder and Imam of a Masjid in Bandarban through whose hands 30 families became Muslims in his area. He was reported to be threatened by such militants because of preaching Islam and convincing people to be Muslim beforehand.

title: Parbatya Chattagram Jana Samhati Samiti


text:
Category talk:Ethnicity stubs

Untitled
FWIMC: Please to move all the stubs about particular peoples to Category:Ethnic group stubs -SV|t 03:17, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Ethnicity stubs


text: User:Germen

title: User:Germen


text:
Morten Frost

Morten Frost or Morten Frost Hansen (born 4 April 1958) is a former badminton player and later coach, who represented Denmark. As a player, he spent twelve years in the top three of the world rankings.

Badminton career
During his career, Frost won almost every available top level championship, except the World Badminton Championships where he scored a silver medal twice (1985 and 1987). When he lost his second World Championship in the finals, the headlines rang out "The World's greatest badminton player may never be World Champion." While this may be the enduring footnote to his career, Frost dominated at the much coveted All England Open Badminton Championships. He won that tournament in 1982, 1984, 1986, and 1987. He also was European champion in 1984 and 1986. He won the Nordic championship each year from 1978 through 1984 and again in 1988.

Frost is also distinguished by winning all of the invitational Grand Prix tournaments at least once, including his home country's Denmark Open, of which he was champion 1980-1986 and 1989. Morten Frost represented Denmark on the national team from 1976 to 1991, longer than anyone else.

Noted for his exceptionally smooth and fluid footwork, Frost's playing style was something of a cross between the traditional singles game featuring numerous clears (lobs) and drops, with smashes often reserved for weak returns, and the modern singles game featuring more smashing from the outset of a rally to create openings.

Morten Frost was inducted into the BWF Badminton Hall of Fame in 1998.

Coaching career
After his playing years were over, he went on to successfully coach the Danish national team. During his tenure as coach, the Danish national squad achieved over 20 major international wins, including an Olympic gold medal in 1996, six gold medals and three silver medals at the European Championships in 1996, the men's singles titles at the 1995 and 1996 All England Championships, and a gold, two silver and four bronze medals at the World Championships in 1995. He later coached the national teams of Malaysia and South Africa. Frost also worked as a commentator on the BBC's TV coverage of the badminton tournament at the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.

In 2015 Frost accepted a contract to be technical director of the Malaysian national team until the end of 2020. Early 2017, Frost had a fallout with Malaysian former world number 1 player Lee Chong Wei regarding what Lee considered unfair treatment towards him after an injury. In September 2017, Frost resigned from his position in Malaysia, citing personal reasons.

In February 2019, Frost signed a one-year contract to coach India's junior players at the Prakash Padukone Badminton Academy.

World Championships
Men's singles

World Cup
Men's singles

World Games
Men's singles

European Championships
Men's singles

IBF World Grand Prix (32 titles, 12 runners-up)
The World Badminton Grand Prix sanctioned by International Badminton Federation (IBF) from 1983 to 2006.

Men's singles

Men's doubles

Quotes

 * "Jeg hader at tabe mere end de fleste. Jeg har en vilje til at vinde HVER gang!" - Morten Frost
 * "I hate to lose more than most. I have the will to win EVERY time!" - Morten Frost (translation of above)
 * "He used to give international players in England a 14-0 start. And if they won, the bet was they would take the money. And most of the players would take the bet, but they made very little money. After that they found they couldn't win, so they never took the bet. But that's how you train not to make errors." - Tom John on Morten Frost

title: Morten Frost


text:
User:SVTCobra

[https://tools.wmflabs.org/citationhunt/en Do your part! Click to help fix citations on Wikipedia! ]

I edit a variety of articles on Wikipedia.

Also, I am an administrator at English Wikinews.

title: User:SVTCobra


text:
Talk:Second Epistle to the Thessalonians

Untitled
It seems to me that the passage

"Apparently the first letter was misunderstood, especially regarding the second advent of Christ. The Thessalonians had embraced the idea that Paul had taught that "the day of Christ was at hand", that Christ's coming was about to occur. This error is corrected (2:1-12), and the apostle announces what first must take place before the end times."

has more to do with 1 Thessalonians and should be moved there. freestylefrappe 03:25, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

This passage should be in the 1 Thes. entry as well as here as it is a statement which links the two and a valid point from the traditional view. omricon 23:15, 14 Aug 2007

Content?
Could someone please summarise what is actually in this epistle? BrainyBabe (talk) 19:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A fellow did; and I did something to clean it: removing first person voice and things that seem out of place. But the quotes need to be converted into an article.  Somehow the third chapter and and bibliography have disappeared, I'll see if I can fix that. Jonathan48 (talk) 07:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They reappeared, not sure what I did. Jonathan48 (talk) 07:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I must make a major complaint against this article. Using research from 1908 is unacceptable, especially for an opinion that only a small minority of scholars hold today. Very few scholars today still argue that Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians and the claim that the church would not have accepted a phony begs countless questions and not only contradicts our understanding of the early church, but also our understanding of the concept of intellectual property in the first the second century. Of course, if I have the spare time, I'll find better sources and fix it myself, but that might not be for weeks. No user account 9:08 24 October, 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.143.136 (talk)

Composite epistle
"Admitting that there are stylistic problems between Second Thessalonians and First Thessalonians, he argues that part of the problem is due to the composite nature of First Thessalonians (Murphy-O'Connor is only one of many scholars who argue that the current text of Second Thessalonians is the product of merging two or more authentic letters of Paul.)" Which letter is the composite? The two sentences quoted seem to be in contradiction. The first sentence stating that it is 1Th that is a composite, the second that it is 2Th. Could someone check the sources and correct this? --Khajidha (talk) 18:04, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

2 Thessalonians 2:11
What about the controversy of 2 Thessalonians 2:11, which makes God out to be a liar and deceiver, who makes people believe a working of error (which could in turn be the entire Bible itself)? Torquemama007 (talk) 18:57, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Epistle to the Romans which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:29, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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text:
Talk:Dublin Culture

I made this a redirect to Dublin because there was only one sentence of content here but there is a whole section of content on Dublin culture in the a main Dublin article. Tobycat 03:26, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dublin Culture


text:
Patrick Bauchau

Patrick Nicolas Jean Sixte Ghislain Bauchau (born 6 December 1938) is a Belgian actor best known for his roles in the films A View to a Kill, The Rapture and Panic Room, as well as the TV shows The Pretender and House.

Early life
Patrick Bauchau was born in Brussels, Belgium on 6 December 1938, the son of Mary (née Kozyrev), a Russian-born school administrator and publisher, and Henry Bauchau, a school administrator, lawyer, publisher, writer, and psychoanalyst who served as an officer in the Belgian Underground during World War II. He was raised in Belgium, Switzerland and England.

He attended Oxford University on an academic scholarship and speaks German, French, English, Spanish, Italian, and a little Russian, Portuguese and Dutch.

He is married to the French actress and writer Mijanou Bardot, and lives in Los Angeles.

Career
Bauchau began his career in French New Wave cinema, including acting in two films by Éric Rohmer, La Carrière de Suzanne (1963) and La Collectionneuse (1967). He also participated in the New German Cinema in films like Wim Wenders' Der Stand der Dinge (1982).

Bauchau is better known for his roles in American television. Bauchau has starred in many different TV shows and movies, including Choose Me, A View to a Kill as Scarpine, The Pretender, Kindred: The Embraced, The Rapture, Clear and Present Danger, The Cell, Panic Room, Boy Culture, Carnivàle, 2012, Extraordinary Measures and Get the Gringo. In 1987, he was considered for the part of Captain Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: The Next Generation. In 1989 he starred as the murderer in Columbo: Murder: A Self Portrait. In 1992 he guest-starred on Murder, She Wrote: The Monte Carlo Murders. In 2004 he appeared in the Ray Charles biopic Ray as Dr. Hacker. In 2005, he appeared as a guest star on ABC's Alias, as well as on the Fox shows House and 24.

In 2007 Bauchau took the lead dramatic role in the biographical movie The Gray Man—a thriller which dramatised the crimes of the American sadomasochistic serial killer, rapist, and cannibal Albert Fish. In 2009, he appeared as a guest star on ABC's show Castle. For movies, he often performs the French dubbing of his characters himself, as he is a native French speaker. In 2011, Bauchau guest-starred on the episode "Eye for an Eye" of USA's Burn Notice.

title: Patrick Bauchau


text: User talk:168.212.147.254

title: User talk:168.212.147.254


text:
Caterpillar 740 Ejector

The Caterpillar 740 Ejector Articulated Truck is Caterpillar's second generation of articulated haulers (dump truck) to have a system that pushes material out the back of the body. It is the largest articulated haul truck offered by Caterpillar; larger trucks use a rigid frame system. The ejector uses a 4-cylinder hydraulic ram and blade to dump the material out, a similar system to Cat's wheel tractor-scrapers. The 740 Ejector is sold as separate model from the usual 740.

Total power is 436 hp (325 kW), total operating weight is 162,280 lb (73,610 kg), with the load being 42 short tons (38 tonnes), 37.3 yd3 (28.5 m3) at a 1:1 heap. Top forward speed is 34 mph (55 km/h).

History
Caterpillar introduced an ejector version of its D400E in 2001. In 2002/2003, the DX00 series of trucks were replaced with the 7XX range. Currently Caterpillar supplies 725, 730, 730 Ejector, 735, 740 and 740 Ejector versions. The 7XX truck series uses the same cab design across all types. These are all manufactured in the UK.

Advantages and disadvantages
Advantages
 * 1) Lower risk of tipping over on slopes when dumping.
 * 2) Ability to spread the material out over a distance.
 * 3) Dumping does not increase the risk of contacting overhead obstacles (power lines, bridges, etc.).
 * 4) Virtually eliminate any material remaining in the body after dumping.
 * 5) Dumping and returning can be done without slowing down.

Disadvantages
 * 1) Reduction in types of materials suited for hauling, large rocks can wedge between sidewall and ejector causing damage.
 * 2) Winter operations may cause wet material to freeze on sidewall jamming ejector.
 * 3) More complicated operation, additional parts to maintain.
 * 4) Body can be damaged from contact while loading, preventing ejection.

title: Caterpillar 740 Ejector


text:
Talk:Benson & Hedges

Snooker
I believe Benson & Hedges sponsored snooker too. Before the new regulations of course. I think they even sponsored the World Championship. That is something which should be mentioned I think.

129.125.103.83 12:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The Masters was indeed sponsored by B&H until the banning of indirect cigarette advertising on television in the UK. More here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_(snooker), but whether it warrants a mention or not, I don't know. Juux 18:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

 * what is benson & hedges 103.226.31.156 (talk) 12:01, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Royal Warrant
Quote: "From 1878 until 1999, a Royal Warrant was issued to Gallaher on behalf of the product" ... is this correct? According to this article, Gallaher Group didn't acquite B&H until 1958. Me thinks that, perhaps, the first date should be 1978, not 1878. These dates should be checked and validated with references, if possible.

Also, I suspect that this warrant is only indicated on packs for sale in the UK market ... or was this on packs for export too?

It was on export packets too. The whole point of the royal warrant is a status symbol to the rest world that it is a quality product.Schnizzle 11:58, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Price
Isn't it a bit pointless having the price here? The price of cigarettes isn't constant for every newsagent and tobacconist, it varies from place to place. Also, the price goes up every few months anyway. Haddock420 04:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The mentioning of the price serves somewhat of a purpose, if not only for that of an example. The article could perhaps be better written to help serve it's purpose --Dragnilar 18:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Taste
The flavour is somewhat of a marshmellowy taste mixed with chocolate, particularly in the menthol version. I think it would be interesting to add a "flavour/taste" section to the ciggartte articles.--Dragnilar 18:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

We have B&H black and white and blue mavrick,plus white in Austria.Definetely the only and best tobaccoe in Austria-but also those tobaccoes of gallaher the hidden sowjets catch and make their terrible fart into it-my last bought package stinks like pork meat,incredible.I gave an hand-ful into the micro wave,and the whole flat stank enormously like terrible pork.They try to kill us-tabaccoe is not poison.-the sowjets make us stupid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.112.161.119 (talk) 07:25, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

oppose. flavour is subjective, hence it doesnt really merit inclusion in an encyclopedia Billcarr178 04:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Ripley Bogle
I deleted the following line as I believe it was not well written, not in the correct place and most importantly, not notable enough for inclusion in the article.

"and also the favoured cigarette of Ripley Bogle, from Robert McLiam Wilson's novel of the same name. (1998, Andre Deutsch)"

There is no wikipedia article on the book itself and the article on the author is a stub, just a few lines in length. Kingturkey 03:46, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, does that even matter? It'd be awful silly to make Wikipedia the standard by which Wikipedia operates - "Is there a page on this already? No? Guess it's not worth documenting" 222.154.232.126 (talk) 23:56, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Benson & Hedges


text:
Talk:Lucifer (DC Comics)

Where is the citation that this portrayal will be more comic accurate and how can it be if a female is playing a character who is male in the comics?

“Gwendoline Christie is set to portray a more comic accurate version in the upcoming television series The Sandman on Netflix.”

Yessahm
uuhhhmm... dad, wrong universa, thinggah mah jigah, one thousand ages, invisible bond... jiggle jiggle jiggle.. special aku war

Title

 * Why is this article under "Lucifer (comics)" rather than "Lucifer (DC Comics)", considering that there is another Lucifer at "Lucifer (Marvel Comics)"?
 * Presumably this was done because the DC Comics one is so much more well-known and widely significant than the Marvel one, but Naming conventions (comics) indicates that both articles should be under their publisher names in such cases, presumably with Lucifer (comics) as a disambiguation page linking to each (in case anyone searches for that, since I see no reason to link to such a page; another option, of course, is to have Lucifer (comics) link to Lucifer (disambiguation))....
 * Oh, and I'm asking because I want to make sure we've settled on a certain title before I go to the trouble of changing every page that links to Lucifer (DC Comics) to a direct link to Lucifer (comics). No point doing that if we the page's title isn't fairly certain yet. -Silence 19:38, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Issue has been resolved- the article title is now Lucifer (DC Comics) Eilu 14:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Plot clarification
The article states Lucifer left because he "became tired of his reign" and "felt it was unfair punishment" but I seem to remember that he left because he realized that even as Hell's ruler he's still subject to the laws of Yahweh- in short, retiring is another of his attempts to shake off his father's control and control of his own destiny. Eilu 14:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Other Characters
Should a "Other Characters" section be added? It could have short descriptions of recurring characters or those who played pivotal roles in the series, such as Briadach, Gaudium and Spera, Lilith, Mazikeen, Zim'et, Amenadiel, etc. If so, what would be an appropriate heading? I wouldn't mind getting it started. Eilu 14:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Problem
The article say the "He is portrayed as sophisticated and almost charming, rather than the stereotypical Christian devil." This is untrue as the christian devil, in popular folklore, is seen as a threat to susceptible women because of his cunning intellect and seductive charm. I am editting this section. Feel free to comment. Lue3378 02:44, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I think it may be referring to the way the Christian devil is traditionally depicted or pictured (ie. as a hideous monster/demon with cloven hooves and horns on his head) Eilu 16:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

 * There are many traditions surrounding the Christian devil. He's variously portrayed as cunning, charming and beautiful (the "Prince of Lies" who will tell you anything you want to hear) or as dangerous in principle but ugly and stupid (the medieval tradition of having a devil who falls for the simplest tricks you can think of, like promising not to take someone to hell until they've had time to take off their jacket... which then of course never happens). As far as appearance goes: in most traditions the devil can appear as anything he wants to, even when his "real form" is supposed to be a goat- or demon-like creature.
 * It's probably misleading to name any particular interpretation "the stereotypical Christian devil"; about the only thing all those views have in common is that the devil is the embodiment of evil. The devil as sophisticated and charming is a common, but not necessarily stereotypical view. 82.92.119.11 10:50, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

== David Bowie == Gaiman instructed(or rather demanded) that Luci look like David Bowie. Exact words "If he doesn't look like David Bowie I will send it back until he does look like David Bowie". So I fixed the passage where it says that early in the series he looked like a young david Bowie. He always looks like David Bowie. Period. First a younger version with the longer hair, then a slightly older version with short hair. just like Bowie himself. He very intentionally looks that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.157.10 (talk) 20:16, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Gabriel
What's this I hear of a third brother, Gabriel, to Lucifer and Michael?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.116.33.6 (talk • contribs) 17:42, October 30, 2006

 * Well, in the story, all the angels (the entire Host of thousands or maybe even millions) are brothers, the sons of Yahweh. —Lowellian (reply) 05:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Gabriel only appears in two issues of Lucifer IIRC (50 and 75?). I've heard that Carey left him alone because he was used in Hellblazer. Samael, Michael, and Gabriel are brothers because they are the direct creations of Yahweh, and the demiurges which enacted his will by creating a cosmos. --68.41.122.213 18:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Elaine Belloc
Hey all, I just created an article for Elaine Belloc... But as you'll see it's essentially devoid of substance (I lent all my Luci's to a friend, and I don't want the inaccuracies of memory coming into play). Anyone want to help fill it out? -Porlob 14:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Demon#0 and #50
Lucifer also appeared in Demon#0 and #50. Enda80 14:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)Enda80

Relative omnipotence
I changed it to "relative" omnipotence since it sounds better than "nigh." Nigh is a bit too nebulous. This way, it clarifies his standing in the standard hierarchy (i.e. relative to other, "lesser" beings, he is omnipotent. however, relative to his father, he is not). it even says in the article that his powers are second only to his father's. this description seems to fit better.

ShotokanNbjj 19:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

POV
The solo ongoing series has some POV problems. I am specifically thinking of the fact that the article says the nirvana miniseries was "excellent", and other such similar statement. Wikipedia is not a place for comic reviews.

Fair use rationale for Image:Lucifer16.jpg
Image:Lucifer16.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Powers and Abilities
Lucifer does not have the demiurgic power, and cannot create universes on a whim. He explicitly needed Michael for that. 88.64.178.44 03:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
I dont think the trivia is accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grimmjow E6 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Trivia sections are discouraged and something with what looks like speculation is about the last thing we want if someone is thinking of starting one (we should be removing them and integrating the information into the article). So I removed it. (Emperor (talk) 23:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC))

Good (: Grimmjow E6 (talk) 18:19, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Lucifer in Constantine
Petty probably, but should the section on Lucifer being in Constantine be deleted? As far as I know, there's been no indication that the Lucifer in that film is based on the DC/Vertigo Lucifer: considering that he takes the role that the First of the Fallen took in the original graphic novel, its more likely the film Lucifer is based on the generic Lucifer, not the comic one.JonStrines (talk) 09:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've removed the following section; the First of the Fallen page clearly (and correctly) states The First of the Fallen and Lucifer are distinct entities and that is was the First of the Fallen that interacted with Constantine in that scene. The film credits list Stormare's character as Satan, a character who is distinct from both Lucifer and The First of the Fallen in comics lore.
 * ==In Film==
 * Lucifer appeared toward the end of the film Constantine. He was portrayed by Peter Stormare.
 * Curiously it was Gaiman's use of Lucifer in Sandman that created both the continuity problems that led to the creation of the First of the Fallen and Carey's Lucifer series itself. The average viewer in certain cultures might equate any 'devil' with Lucifer, but intellectual property lawyers in the US certainly wouldn't.  76.105.238.158 (talk) 08:41, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Lucifer in Murder Mysteries
I couldn't decide if "other versions" should list Lucifers appearance in Murder Mysteries. On the one hand it was published by Dark Horse, which is not owned by DC, but it is a creation by Neil Gaiman which created the main Lucifer in this article. Note that the Lucifer character and the silver city in Murder Mysteries matches the Sandman story arch, but not the Lucifer story arch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.241.246.109 (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Revision issues
What is wrong with this revision: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lucifer_(DC_Comics)&diff=prev&oldid=694453634?

Lucifer Morningstar 01 (talk) 02:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Article needs to explain the choice of 'Morningstar' as the lastname
We arn't all in on it, so why isn't there an explanation as to why "Morningstar" was chosen for the charachter's lastname?

Maybe something to do with John Wycliffe's Protestant reformation being subverted by Crypto-Zionists like John Calvin aka John Cohen.

Anyway, how about at least explaining to the readership out there, the historical link that exists between Lucifer (son of the morning) and the morningstar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.66.66.78 (talk) 23:49, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

 * There is already a wikipedia article that explains this in full:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism

2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:3539:37B1:7E93:8990 (talk) 12:02, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Thus far, the article lacks any mention of volume two.
allixpeeke (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 23 January 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure)   CAPTAIN MEDUSA   talk  13:57, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Lucifer (DC Comics) → Lucifer Morningstar – its consistent with Michael Demiurgos (not named "Michael (DC Comics)"), it's a more basic name, it's the main aliase of the character, and there is no other character named Lucifer Morningstar besides this one. The Sr Guy (talk) 13:07, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose since the original Babylonian Lucifer actually means Morning Star, Venus, Shining One, this is just going to confuse readers who don't know comics. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:14, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * not everyone knows the meaning. (The Sr Guy (talk) 10:21, 24 January 2020 (UTC))

 * Oppose As stated by In ictu oculi, "Lucifer" means "Morning Star", making the title potentially confusing. It definitely requires some sort of disambiguation from the mythological Lucifer.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:02, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * potentially confusing but probably not, when someone says "Lucifer Morningstar" this usually refers to this character (The Sr Guy (talk) 13:37, 27 January 2020 (UTC)).

 * Oppose, as you are incorrect in saying there is not another character named Lucifer Morningstar; there is, in Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. MacCready (talk) 20:55, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. With all due respect for his fans, I don't believe that the comics hero is the first that will come to mind. Bealtainemí (talk) 07:04, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Species
I feel like his species would be better listed as "Angel" since "fallen angel" is more of a label than a species, same with "Archangel" since that's more of a rank than anything else. Booger-mike (talk) 00:46, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lucifer (DC Comics)


text:
User:No Clue

Well I have No Clue what I'm doing here just boredom really and i thought i should do something that benefits everyone.Now I think I'm addicted So far these are the articles I've dnne:

 * Honda EV Plus 6.7.2005 - Created (before registration)
 * Dominique You 6.8.2005 - Created

and hopefully they were all enjoyed and have been usefull. Many more to come.

About me:

 * Well i was born in Corvallis, OR on March 22, 1982 @ 12:01AM.

before i became a year old my mother moved me and my brother (Born: Corvallis, OR November 29, 1980) to sunny ol' southern California, where i have lived for most of my 23 years in existance. We moved around alot from city to city so i went to many different schools before dropping out halfway through the 10th grade at age 17 (yes i was waaaaay behind in school) Then I got arrested for being an idiot (yess they can and will arrest you for that) and got my GED in Juvenile Hall, where i lived for six months. Since then I've lived in many places in the Southwest U.S. Including Oakland, CA / Las Vegas, NV / Ely, NV / Phoenix, AZ / Flagstaff, AZ / Albaquerque, NM / Amarillo, TX, and ive had many jobs in all kinds of fields ive worked as: a dispatcher for a major trucking company, pizza chef and delivery boy, dishwasher, bus driver, Rec Attendant at a hockey rink, Pool man, i have even smuggled illegal brazilians across the mexican border. I guess i just don't know what i want out of life, if i had to choose i guess it would be just the adventure of living, and all the things i could experiance before i croak. i guess thats why i don't keep jobs for very long i just cant stand the same old thing day after day which is also why in a few weeks i will be moving to Dayton, OH where i will finally most likely attend college, and get a real job so i can waste what little life i have like almost everyone else. well thats about it for me. my email is d3w22j82@gmail.com spam away or just email me something nice, if you know anyone who wants to buy a kidney please email me thier name and number ive got one for sale.

title: User:No Clue


text:
Talk:Life Day

Merge Life Day with the Holiday Special
I think this article should be merged with The Star Wars Holiday Special
 * It has enough details involved to be its own article, IMHO. The Wookieepedian 04:27, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * IMO what's important with things like this isn't how much detail it has: The question is, before we merge an article with something (in this case, the holiday special), we should ask, is this a concept outside the merge target?  In this case Life Day appears to be a concept outside the holiday special, given the video game and the children's book, so I think the article could stand.  CanadianCaesar 23:11, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly. That was my point; Life Day is involved in enough material that it deserves an article of its own. The Wookieepedian 01:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I dispute the statement that the Star Wars universe is usually well crafted.

The deletion notice for this article cannot be taken seriously. Anyone who is objecting about the notability of an article and yet has trouble spelling the words 'serious', 'cannot', 'be', 'are' and 'you' should be ignored. Also, their comment fails to state their reasons for objecting or make any coherent argument as to the validity of their claims. Without some backup of their claim, the comment is meaningless and should be ignored.
 * The template is here, but there is no listing under Articles for deletion. I'm removing it. 130.101.20.155 19:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Life Day


text:
User talk:No Clue

 * Hello

title: User talk:No Clue


text:
Talk:Gordon Springs (Georgia)

Untitled
I still have my doubts that this is the proper naming convention for a creek/spring/stream. I also still have my doubts that a spring, measuring less than a thousand meters, is encyclopedic. I know this article passed VfD, so the concensus was yes, it is. I'd still like to see examples of other insignificant creeks/springs/streams in Wikipedia. Lastly, I've contacted government officials in Whitfield County to clarify the existence of an 'associated settlement' (quoting article). I also have asked for clarification on any historical status of such a community within this county. --Durin 04:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * As I mentioned in the VfD vote, Gordon Springs is a historical locale named after the springs, although the article as presently written foregrounds the springs and creek. I voted keep because it is a historical locale. I would not have voted to keep it if there were not any historical associations with the place. That is, if all that was known about this place was that it is a small spring and a creek, then I'd agree that it doesn't merit a separate article. Further, even if there were enough interesting things to say about such a small spring or creek to merit an article -- if the content were solely about the spring or creek then I'd also agree that this is misnamed -- in such as case, a name more consistent with other geographical features like rivers would be Gordon Springs (Georgia). older ≠ wiser 22:21, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, that makes sense. With that in mind, my concern is that this may or may not be an actual community. It's not an incorporated town, that much is certain. According to the USGS, this place has a 'class code' of U8. According to , U8 is defined as "Identifies a populated place located wholly or substantially outside the boundaries of an incorporated place or CDP but whose name has not been verified as authoritative by the U.S. Geological Survey." Looking at the terraserver image, there's maybe two of three buildings in the vicinity of the creek. I'm hard pressed to think of this as being notable enough to warrant an article on it.
 * As a test of sorts, I looked at this, and brought up the data for the county in which I live in. I've been living here for 14 years. The county I live in is geographically small, just ~400 square miles and a population of 120,000. In my county the USGS query brought up five places with a U8 code, like Gordon Springs has. I've never heard the names of any of those five 'places'. Try it for your own county, and see what you think. A 'U8' just doesn't seem notable enough on its own for inclusion. To me, there's got to be some other reason why it should be notable enough for inclusion.
 * As an historical place, yes there are references. Do any of these make it notable enough to include it? Well, this reference that you previously cited has no entry for population, but there was a post office. These two references  and  place Gordon Springs in Walker County, the next county west of Whitfield County where the article's references Gordon Springs as being. Confusing. I'll grant that some place called "Gordon Springs" existed, and most probably in Whitfield County, though there may have been another place called "Gordon Springs" in Walker County, where the mineral springs and associated hotel sprang up...or these are the same place. Assuming best case scenario (for the existence of the article), and these are the same place, I'm pretty ambivalent on the article; it doesn't seem very noteworthy. There are 100's of thousands of miniscule places around the world...possibly millions. What sets this place apart as being worthy of notability for Wikipedia?
 * Let's keep in mind the origin of this article; started as a hoax page in support of a non-existent historical person. Note the companion article originally created by the same person was deleted under VfD.
 * I agree with your statement regarding the name of the article if this were solely about a creek/spring. How do you feel about unincorporated places being referred to as if they were a town? I get the implication that anything, is an incorporated place of some kind. This article's naming suggests it is such, but it isn't. I've not found other articles that establish a pattern for naming such unincorporated places. The only article that I've found that speaks to such a possible convention is this one: Willowbrook, Staten Island.
 * So, in summary; it is certain it is not currently an incorporated place, and as such probably violates the, convention. If there's something that makes this place historically significant, then it is probably best kept as the current name. If there isn't, then it should probably be renamed either along the river convention as you suggest, or along a convention that matches other unincorporated places.
 * Your thoughts? --Durin 23:59, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding naming of unincorporated communities -- in my experience, most of these that are not neighborhoods within larger municipalities are named as place, state.
 * Examples? The only one I found doesn't follow that convention. --Durin 02:06, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * For starters, look at Category:Unincorporated communities in Michigan, I think there is a corresponding category for every state.
 * I checked the first two communities in each letter A-E against the FIPS database. None of the ten I tested were classified as "U8" class code as Gordon Springs, Georgia is. That's not definitive; it's just a sample. I wouldn't be surprised though if none of those communities were U8. --Durin 03:59, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Close. There are actually two in that category Branch, Michigan and University Center, Michigan. Neither are particluarly significant, but I maintain that there is no harm in including such articles. BTW, "U8" class code only means that the USGS has not verified the information. Considering that verifying FIPS data for small locales is likely not a very high priority for the USGS, this by itself doesn't mean a whole lot. older ≠ wiser 22:10, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding historical references to the place -- Whitfield County was not organized until 1851. Both of the references you mention that refer to Walker County are recounting Zachariah Gordon's move to the place in 1840. By the USGS TopoZone map, Gordon Spring is less than a mile from the Walker County border so it is not very surprising that contemporary descriptions would place it in Walker County, since Walker originally included a large portion of what is now Whitfield County.
 * Ok, that makes more sense. So, the two referred to places are indeed one. --Durin 02:06, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding the value of the article -- well, if this place were in Michigan, where I might be able to gather some offline data, I'd have already expanded this article. I've created dozens of articles about tiny places in Michigan that occupy some small nook in history. Rather, I'd have to ask what is the harm in having an article about a real place that clearly has some verifiable historical context? older ≠ wiser 01:22, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * There are a number of types of things that do not warrant, according to policy, their own articles and have verifiable historical contexts. For example, elementary schools. I just don't see that this place has any historical significance sufficient to warrant the article. I'm inclined to move this article to a new name, such as the river convention you noted above. --Durin 02:06, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Simply because one is unaware of the significance of a place is rarely sufficient reason to delete an article. I'll grant that this article does nothing to establish it's significance. But I've provided a number of references describing the place which could be incorporated into the article. Perhaps I'll do it myself someday, but I prefer working on areas of the country that I at least have some direct experience of. For additional reference, consider that Georgia Backroads magazine did an article about Gordon Springs (#99) . And not that this in itself is particularly notable, but there had been at least two schools in the community . And for some odd reason, an 1855 letter apparently to someone at Gordon Springs can be purchased for $20 (although it seems they mistakenly associate Gordon Springs with nearby Gordon County). And there is a historical marker of some sort at Gordon Springs Gap. And there is another Civil War era marker nearby that mentions Gordon Springs, as described in these accounts . This also mentions the historic resources of the community. Other random references:   . older ≠ wiser 02:47, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * I still firmly believe this community doesn't merit an article. Having a backroads article doesn't seem reason enough to change that opinion. As a community, we routinely delete articles covering a broad range of topics for which there is little or no notability or verifiability. This article, in my opinion, clearly falls into that general category. There's nothing historically significant about this location. I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You've done a wondeful job of finding links that reference Gordon Springs, but there's precious little in them that makes this place in any respect significant. That a military force marched from it to some other place is hardly remarkable. That somebody from there got married is hardly remarkable. That someone owned some property there is hardly remarkable. The part about the hotel might be remarkable if the hotel had some fame, but that doesn't appear to be the case and in any case there's just a reference to it having existed, not whether it was famous or even successful. USGS doesn't recognize that this name is authoritative, and nobody has been able to establish what the population of this community ever was, much less is. I don't see now that there is cause to delete the article. But given that we have virtually no information about the existence of this community, the chief feature of the article is the creek/spring. As such, it should be renamed per your earlier suggested convention. Regardless, I tire of this debate; nothing is likely to change, and we're debating over some trees along some backwoods road in Georgia and whether or not they're notable. This is hardly worth either of our efforts. --Durin 03:59, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You write As a community, we routinely delete articles covering a broad range of topics for which there is little or no notability or verifiability.  Fortunately, more people feel it is worth including verifiable articles about real places, even if they are not presently of any great significance. Notability is not a valid criteria for deletion, although many are under the misapprehension that it is. And there is verifiable information about the place, so that is not a basis for deletion here. You say the hotel had no fame, although another source mentioned it as one of the "most fashionable watering placed (sic) in Georgia", built by the father of a Confederate general. That the current population of a place is small is also rather meaningless for an article about a historical place. Like I said before, if this place was anywhere near my neck of the woods, I would have already expanded it. I may still do so, but it is not a priority for me. PS, it took very little effort to come up with all of the links that I've provided. A bit more effort (e.g., the place has had a couple of variant spellings) and perhaps some good historical print reference works about the area probably would have turned up even more info. older ≠ wiser 22:24, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * You say "Fortunately, more people feel it is worth including verifiable articles". This isn't the case. Please see Importance which lacks concensus. I come from one side of that bench, you come from the other. I consider this matter closed. Further debate is pointless. --Durin 00:07, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Historical value?
As a Georgian, I might be able to give some background, but I also have a big, big question. To me, it seems, especially since the current article has no mention of historical role, that there is no justification for a separate, geography article on the place. (And, incidentally, I'm one of the generally radical inclusionists when it comes to towns.) Geogre 03:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) In Georgia, incorporation was limited by the legislature, so no new towns or cities could be created without a special act. Thus, there are incorporated towns that have, effectively, ceased to have any population, and there are booming "cities" that are unincorporated (most notably Sandy Springs, Georgia which just won a fight that has been going on for more than 30 years to get incorporated, as it is a place in Atlanta with an enormous population and wealth and remote from the county services that had previously been its only sources of fire and police protection).
 * 2) Question: What exactly is the historical significance of Gordon Springs?  There were no Civil War battles there that I know of.  It was not a site for the incursions against the Cherokee, that I can tell.  It was not associated with the Dahlonega Gold Rush.  If its historical significance is that it was a luxury location associated with Gordon himself, then that leaves precious little for a separate article.
 * 3) It seems to me that the question is not "should Gordon Springs be mentioned somewhere," but "should a geo-article exist on a non-town, non-city that is also unpopulated because once it was associated with a particular historical figure?" I.e. can this information (where it is and what the springs are) be put into an article on Gordon?  Does the information even make sense as a stand-alone -- is its reason for inclusion even comprehensible?

I really don't know how this works. I will state that Gordon Springs was a very real place, with a resort that summered 200 or more people. My gg grandfather lived at Gordon Springs near the present store and his two brothers, Zachariah and George Washington Gordon own and operated the resort. I may well be the world expert on Gordon Springs and can provide pages of material if any one is interested.

98.26.111.247 (talk) 20:44, 7 February 2020 (UTC)Gordon Napier Mitchell chlandman@aol.com numerous family letters from the Southern Historical Collection, UNC, Chapel Hill, NC. Letters from the Tn State Archives., Duke University, etc.

title: Talk:Gordon Springs (Georgia)


text:
User talk:FDemopansies

If you would like to delete large amounts of information from an article, please discuss it on the appropriate talk page first. Also, please do not create articles like spicbeater, because it is, at best, a dictionary-type definition, and that is one of the things Wikipedia is not. If you continue to edit with this behavior, you may be blocked from editing this site. Tuf-Kat 03:35, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)
 * I have blocked you for vandalism. Tuf-Kat 20:59, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:FDemopansies