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Provisional application

Under United States patent law, a provisional application is a legal document filed in the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), that establishes an early filing date, but does not mature into an issued patent unless the applicant files a regular non-provisional patent application within one year. There is no such thing as a "provisional patent".

A provisional application includes a specification, i.e. a description, and drawing(s) of an invention (drawings are required where necessary for the understanding of the subject matter sought to be patented ), but does not require formal patent claims, inventors' oaths or declarations, or any information disclosure statement (IDS). Furthermore, because no examination of the patentability of the application in view of the prior art is performed, the USPTO fee for filing a provisional patent application is significantly lower ($60 - $240 as of August 2023 ) than the fee required to file a standard non-provisional patent application. A provisional application can establish an early effective filing date in one or more continuing patent applications later claiming the priority date of an invention disclosed in the provisional application by one or more of the same inventors.

The same term is used in past and current patent laws of other countries with different meanings.

History
The provisional application was introduced to U.S. patent law with a 1994 amendment of the Patent Act of 1952. A 12-month benefit of priority to foreign-filed applications had been a part of U.S. patent law since the 1901 U.S. ratification of the Brussels revision of the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property. The 1994 introduction of the provisional application thus provided a domestic filing equivalent matching the 12-month priority benefit that had been afforded to foreign applications for the better part of the 20th century.

Characteristics
The earliest filing date of a "provisional" (application) may be very important where, for example, a statutory condition of patentability is about to expire and there is insufficient time to generate a complete non-provisional application. In many cases, a provisional is filed the same day as a public disclosure of the invention, which disclosure could otherwise permanently jeopardize the patentability in non-U.S. countries having strict requirements on "complete or absolute novelty". In other cases the provisional application is filed within a grace-period year after such a disclosure in order to preserve only the inventor's U.S. patent rights.

The date of filing of the provisional patent application can also be used as the foreign priority date for applications filed in countries other than the United States and for an international application, but not for a design patent. The filing of a provisional application triggers a review period for the U.S. license necessary for the subsequent foreign or international filings. Though the "provisional" need not be submitted in English, a translation will be required when (and if) a non-provisional application claims the benefit of the provisional.

A provisional application, as such, is never examined by the USPTO, and therefore will never become a patent on its own (unless the provisional patent application is later converted into a non-provisional patent application by the applicant, and then the application is examined as a non-provisional application). The provisional application is also not "published", but becomes a part of any later non-provisional application file that references it, and thus becomes "public" upon issuance of a patent claiming its priority benefit.

A "provisional" is automatically abandoned (expires) one year after it is filed. The provisional filing date is not counted as part of the 20-year life of any patent that may issue with a claim to the provisional filing date.

The United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) announced on December 8, 2010, that it was implementing a Missing Parts Pilot Program. This pilot program would provide applicants with a 12-month extension to the existing 12-month provisional application period. This pilot program would not change the requirement for an applicant to file a non-provisional application within 12 months; though it would allow additional time to reply to a missing parts notice.

Procedure and benefits
To obtain the benefit of the "provisional" filing date, a non-provisional patent application must be filed, claiming benefit of the filing date of one or more specific provisional patent applications, prior to their expiration.

The provisional patent application is only pending for 12 months prior to becoming abandoned. Thus, filing a non-provisional patent application claiming the benefit of the provisional application must be done within 12 months. Otherwise, the rights to claim the benefit of provisional application are lost.

If a non-provisional application is not expected to be filed within one year, and the patent is not otherwise barred by law, another provisional application may also be filed at any time and start another one-year period (but this does not work in all cases). However, the original priority date of any expired provisional applications will be forfeited.

The provisional priority date is of little consequence for any claims in the issued patent that are not supported by the disclosure in the priority document. This makes it very important that provisional applications be sufficiently detailed. Otherwise, the validity of an issued patent may be challenged as to the priority date of its claims that purport to relate back to an insufficient "provisional". Furthermore, during the year after filing the first provisional (and prior to filing a non-provisional application), it may be useful to file additional provisional applications as improvements are made, and then claim priority of those found useful in drafting the non-provisional application(s).

One popular use of a provisional application is to document and "lock in" potential patent rights while attempting to obtain sponsors for further development (and for more expensive patent applications). This tactic may permit an inventor to defer major patent application costs until the commercial viability (or futility) of the invention becomes apparent. However, wise investors consider provisional applications in view of the long road to potential patentability, not to mention the limitations that may be defined by the prior art.

If a prior-art search during the one-year period reveals that what the inventor thought was the invention is found to be an obvious aggregation of prior-art elements or steps, the invention may still be patentable if the provisional application describes a non-obvious novel structure, element, or step. This novel structure can be claimed in the non-provisional patent application, instead of claiming the invalid aggregation.

Information Disclosure Statements (IDSs) are not permitted in provisional applications. Since no substantive examination is given in provisional applications, a disclosure of information is unnecessary. Any such statement filed in a provisional application will be returned or destroyed at the option of the Office.

The advantages of a provisional patent application are:
 * ease of preparation,
 * lower cost, and
 * the ability to use the term "patent pending", which can only be legally used when a patent application has been filed, and which may have significant marketing advantages.

As of May 6, 2021, the USPTO small-entity filing fee is $150 for provisional patent applications having 100 or fewer pages of specification and drawings. Complexity involved for a provisional application on the part of both the applicant and the USPTO is generally much less than that of a non-provisional patent application. Thus, it is possible to file a provisional patent application more quickly and cheaply than a non-provisional patent application.

It is also possible to convert a non-provisional application into a provisional, under limited circumstances (e.g., within a year of filing, when the applicant discovers a reason not to pursue the present non-provisional application).

Free and pro bono assistance
A number of free or almost-free resources exist to help inventors prepare and/or file their provisional applications. The USPTO provides information related to its patent pro bono program, which aims at assisting "inventors and small businesses that meet certain financial thresholds and other criteria ... for free legal assistance in preparing and filing a patent application." The website provides links to USPTO endorsed websites that provide free pro bono services to inventors. Further, the USPTO also permits law school students to practice IP law under the guidance of law school faculty supervisor and provides a list of participating law schools on its website.

title: Provisional application


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List of Dartmouth College alumni

This list of alumni of Dartmouth College includes alumni and current students of Dartmouth College and its graduate schools. In addition to its undergraduate program, Dartmouth offers graduate degrees in nineteen departments and includes three graduate schools: the Tuck School of Business, the Thayer School of Engineering, and Dartmouth Medical School. Since its founding in 1769, Dartmouth has graduated 254 classes of students and today has approximately 66,500 living alumni.

This list uses the following notation:
 * D or unmarked years – recipient of Dartmouth College Bachelor of Arts
 * DMS – recipient of Dartmouth Medical School degree (Bachelor of Medicine 1797–1812, Doctor of Medicine 1812–present )
 * Th – recipient of any of several Thayer School of Engineering degrees (see Thayer School of Engineering)
 * T – recipient of Tuck School of Business Master of Business Administration, or graduate of other programs as indicated
 * M.A., M.A.L.S., M.S., Ph.D, etc. – recipient of indicated degree from an Arts and Sciences graduate program, or the historical equivalent

MacArthur Fellows
The MacArthur Fellows Program, sponsored by the MacArthur Foundation, is a research award commonly called the "Genius Grant."

Nobel laureates
The Nobel Prizes are awarded each year for outstanding research, the invention of ground-breaking techniques or equipment, or outstanding contributions to society.

Government, law, and public policy

 * Note: Individuals who belong in multiple sections appear in the first relevant section.

Members of the United States Congress
Over 164 Dartmouth graduates have served in the United States Senate and United States House of Representatives.

Pulitzer Prize winners
The Pulitzer Prize is an American award regarded as the highest national honor in print journalism, literary achievements, and musical compositions.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: List of Dartmouth College alumni


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User:Stoive/testpage

Stoive/testpage

title: User:Stoive/testpage


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Loch Oich

Loch Oich (Loch Omhaich) is a freshwater loch in the Highlands of Scotland which forms part of the Caledonian Canal, of which it is the highest point. This narrow loch lies between Loch Ness (to the north-east) and Loch Lochy (to the south-west) in the Great Glen. It is fed by the River Garry (from Loch Garry) from the west, and feeds the River Oich from its northern end. The Laggan locks separate it from Loch Lochy.

The Loch Oich wildlife is rich with a wide variety of fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals.

Every autumn the Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) migrates from the sea using Loch Oich, Loch Lochy and Loch Ness as their spawning nests.

Thomas Telford artificially raised the level of the loch by many feet to provide a navigable channel for the Caledonian Canal.

Well of the Seven Heads
The tall needle-like monument on the banks of Loch Oich at the side of the A82 was erected in 1812 by Alexander Ranaldson Macdonell to commemorate the Keppoch murders (Scottish Gaelic: Murt na Ceapaich). It is topped by a sculpture of a hand holding a dagger and seven severed heads. The monument bears an inscription in Gaelic, English, French and Latin that outlines "the ample and summary vengence which, upon the orders of the Lord MacDonnell and Aross, overtook the perpetrators of the foul murder of the Keppoch family, a branch of the powerful and illustrious clan of which his lordship was the Chief". It details how the heads of the seven murderers were cut off with a knife, washed in the nearby burn and then presented at the feet of the MacDonnell chieftain in the nearby Invergarry Castle. The monument was moved a few yards from its original position in 1930 when the road was reconstructed.

title: Loch Oich


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Boardman River

The Boardman River ( '), also known as the Ottaway River ( ') or the Boardman–Ottaway River, is a 28.2 mi river in the northwestern Lower Peninsula of Michigan. It rises in western Kalkaska County, and flows west and north through Grand Traverse County to end in downtown Traverse City at the Grand Traverse Bay, a bay of Lake Michigan. The river's watershed drains an area of 295 sqmi through a combined 130 mi of river and tributaries. Additionally, the Boardman River is considered one of the top ten trout streams in Michigan.

History
Prior to European settlement, the river was known as adaawewiziibi, roughly translating from Ojibwe as "river of trade".

In the year 1847, Captain Horace Boardman of Naperville, Illinois, purchased land at the head of Grand Traverse Bay, at a river then known as the Ottaway River. With the arrival of Hannah-Lay in the 1850s, the river was colloquially, and later officially, renamed the Boardman River. Recent movements have sought to change the name of the river to its original name, either in full or abbreviated (i.e. Boardman–Ottaway River)

Later in 1800s, as Traverse City was first being settled, the Union Street Dam was being built by the Hannah-Lay Company as a saw mill. Around this time, citizens were dumping sewage into the Boardman, which was causing severe health problems. The lake became very industrialized. The western shore of the lake was used for a log rollaway and rail yard on the Great Lakes Central Railroad, up until the early 2000s. Additionally, five dams were built along the main course of the river.

Restoration
Five dams were built along the main course of the Boardman River, in upstream order: the Union Street Dam, Sabin Dam, Boardman Dam, Keystone Dam, and Brown Bridge Dam. In 1961, the Keystone Dam was washed out after flooding upstream. On October 6, 2012, while preparing to demolish Brown Bridge Dam, the highest on the river and largest in terms of impoundment, a temporary structure put in place to facilitate drawdown at the dam was breached, flooding the river valley. In June 2014 the Michigan DEQ issued a report identifying erosion around the temporary drawdown structure as the likely cause of the failure. Brown Bridge Dam removal was completed in January 2013 and resulted in the reestablishment of 2.5 miles of river channel.

In 2017, Boardman Dam and its impoundment structure were demolished, along with an adjacent one-lane bridge carrying Cass Road over the river. A new bridge for Cass Road over the new future river channel was completed the previous year. With the removal of this dam, the watercourse was realigned under the new bridge for the first time.

Sabin Dam was fully removed by the end of 2018. This leaves Union Street Dam as the only remaining impoundment on the main course of the Boardman River. In early June 2024, light construction on the Union Street Dam began. Some trees and the small building on the dam were removed in preparation for the heavy construction in July. The process is expected to be completed in 2027.

Course
The Boardman River follows a rather unusual course. The river rises from streams and swamps in Kalkaska County, flowing generally west–southwest to west until reaching Blair Township in Grand Traverse County, where the river turns due north. Upon exiting Boardman Lake, water flows northwesterly, before turning back due east, forming a U-shape around downtown Traverse City. The river then angles northeast, finally entering the west arm of Grand Traverse Bay.

Boardman Lake is a natural body of water along the course of the river, about a mile upstream from the river's mouth at Grand Traverse Bay. The lake is located within Traverse City and Garfield Township. This lake is also a popular recreational and fishing lake. It has an abundance of bluegill, largemouth bass, northern pike, smallmouth bass, sunfish, walleye, and yellow perch.

Crossings
The following road bridges lay on the main course of the river, entirely within Grand Traverse County.

Drainage basin
The Boardman River drains the following municipalities (italicized municipalities are those which the river drains but does not flow through): The Boardman River is also drains the following lakes:
 * Grand Traverse County
 * Blair Township
 * East Bay Township
 * Fife Lake Township
 * Garfield Township
 * Green Lake Township
 * Long Lake Township
 * Mayfield Township
 * Paradise Township
 * Traverse City
 * Union Township
 * Whitewater Township
 * Kalkaska County
 * Boardman Township
 * Coldsprings Township
 * Excelsior Township
 * Garfield Township
 * Kalkaska
 * Kalkaska Township
 * Orange Township
 * Rapid River Township
 * Springfield Township

 * Arbutus Lake
 * Bass Lake
 * Rennie Lake
 * Silver Lake
 * Spider Lake

title: Boardman River


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User talk:Mknat

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. -- 18:12, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mknat


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Lover (Rodgers and Hart song)

"Lover" is a popular song composed by Richard Rodgers with lyrics by Lorenz Hart. It was sung in the movie Love Me Tonight (1932) by Jeanette MacDonald.

Popular recordings in 1933 were by Paul Whiteman and His Orchestra (vocal by Jack Fulton), Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians, and Greta Keller.

Other notable recordings

 * Stan Kenton – with Kai Winding (1940)
 * Gene Krupa – 1945
 * Harry James – released three live recordings of the song from the 1940s and 50s
 * Les Paul – The New Sound (Capitol, 1950)
 * Frank Sinatra – Sing and Dance with Frank Sinatra (1950) and Come Swing with Me! (1961)
 * Peggy Lee – Lover (1952) and in the movie The Jazz Singer (1952)
 * Charlie Parker – Big Band (1952)
 * Yvette Giraud – French-language of the song (lyrics by Henri Contet), under the title "Partout Toi", was a hit in 1954
 * Dave Brubeck – Jazz: Red Hot and Cool (1955)
 * Sonny Stitt – Sonny Stitt Plays Arrangements from the Pen of Quincy Jones (1955)
 * Johnny Dorelli - Songo Americano (1955)
 * Ella Fitzgerald – Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Rodgers & Hart Song Book (1956)
 * Max Roach – Jazz in 3/4 Time (1957)
 * Gerry Mulligan - Paul Desmond Quartet – Gerry Mulligan - Paul Desmond Quartet - bonus track (1957)
 * Anita O'Day – Anita O'Day and Billy May Swing Rodgers and Hart (1960)
 * Cliff Richard – Listen to Cliff! (1961)
 * Joni James – I'm Your Girl (1962)
 * Brenda Lee – All Alone Am I(1963)
 * John Coltrane – The Last Trane (1965)
 * The Supremes – The Supremes Sing Rodgers & Hart (1967)
 * Tony Bennett – Tony Bennett Sings 10 Rodgers and Hart Songs (1976)
 * Kenny Garrett - Introducing Kenny Garrett (1985)
 * Wynton Marsalis – Standard Time Vol. 2 (1990)
 * Bill Charlap – S Wonderful (1998)
 * Keely Smith – Keely Swings Basie-Style with Strings (2002)
 * Margaret Whiting – recorded the song for Capitol

title: Lover (Rodgers and Hart song)


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Ian McCallum (guitarist)

Ian McCallum (born September 1965) is an English guitarist and songwriter.

Early life
He was born in Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne, England and supports Scottish football club Rangers.

Career
McCallum started writing and touring in the early 1980s. He plays guitar for Stiff Little Fingers, and is also a recording artist in his own right.

He is a fan of the English folk-rock band Lindisfarne, and played guitar for them on one occasion when Simon Cowe was unavailable. He also co-wrote, with Lindisfarne member Alan Hull, the band's single "We Can Make It". Additionally, McCallum's album Take Me as I Am (1997) features a cover of the Lindisfarne song "Heroes" (from their album Dance Your Life Away (1986)) and a tribute to Hull – "Song for Alan".

As McCallum

 * Left Handed (1988)
 * Big Bigg Market (1992)
 * Take Me As I Am (1997)

With Stiff Little Fingers

 * Hope Street (1999)
 * Guitar and Drum (2004)
 * No Going Back (2014)

title: Ian McCallum (guitarist)


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Molpadia

In Greek mythology, Molpadia (Ancient Greek: Μολπαδία means 'divine song') may refer to the two different women:

 * Molpadia, an Amazon who was said to have fought for both Antiope and Orithyia. She was a participant in the Attic War, where she witnessed her queen Antiope sustain heavy injuries. Antiope was hurt so seriously that she could not defend herself from Theseus and his retainers. Knowing this, Molpadia killed the queen with an arrow (some say spear), saving her from violation by the Athenian king. Other sources, however, state that she killed Antiope by accident. She was afterwards killed by Theseus, and her tomb was shown at Athens. Like many other Amazons, she may have been named for a goddess, in this case a psychopomp deity. Her name means "Death Song".
 * Molpadia, daughter of Staphylus and Chrysothemis, sister of Parthenos and Rhoeo, alternatively called Hemithea.

Cultural depictions
Molpadia is a supporting character in Evangeline Walton's 1983 historical fiction novel The Sword Is Forged, which chronicles the story of Antiope and Theseus.

title: Molpadia


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Johnny Lee (singer)

Johnny Lee (born John Lee Ham; July 3, 1946) is an American country music singer. His 1980 single "Lookin' for Love" became a crossover hit, spending three weeks at number 1 on the Billboard country singles chart while also appearing in the top 5 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart and top 10 on Billboard's Adult Contemporary chart. He racked up 17 top 40 country hits in the early and mid-1980s.

Biography
Lee was born in Texas City, Texas, and grew up on a dairy farm in nearby Alta Loma (now part of Santa Fe, Texas). In high school he formed a rock n' roll band, "Johnny Lee and the Roadrunners". After graduation, Lee enlisted in the United States Navy and served a tour of duty on the USS Chicago, a guided missile cruiser. After his discharge, he had his name legally changed from John Lee Ham to Johnny Lee. He played cover tunes in Texas nightclubs and bars throughout the late 1960s.

Lee worked 10 years with Mickey Gilley, both on tour and at Gilley’s Club in Pasadena, Texas. The soundtrack from the 1980 hit movie Urban Cowboy, which was largely shot at Gilley's, catapulted Lee to fame. The record spawned several hit singles, including "Lookin' for Love."

Lee also had five other songs reach the top of the Billboard magazine Hot Country Singles chart: "One in a Million" (1980), "Bet Your Heart on Me" (1981), "The Yellow Rose" (1984, a duet with Lane Brody and the theme song to the NBC TV-series of the same name), and "You Could Have Heard a Heartbreak" (1984). His other hits include "Pickin' Up Strangers" (1981), "Prisoner of Hope" (1981), "Cherokee Fiddle"(1982), "Sounds Like Love"(1982), "When You Fall In Love"(1982), "Be There For Me Baby"(1981), "Hey Bartender" (1983), "Rollin' Lonely"(1984), and "Save the Last Chance" (1985).

From 1982 to 1984, Lee was married to Dallas actress Charlene Tilton, with whom he had a daughter, Cherish (born 1982). He married his second wife, Deborah Spohr Lee, in 1986. The couple had a son, Johnny Lee Jr., in 1990 and divorced years later. Deborah died November 7, 2002, after a long battle with prescription painkillers. After Johnny Lee Jr. died in 2014 at the age of 23 of a drug overdose, Lee became active in combating the illegal drug epidemic.

In the fall of 2008, Lee began performing regularly in Branson, Missouri.

Charted B-sides

 * Notes
 * A^ "Lookin' for Love" also peaked at No. 20 on the RPM Adult Contemporary Tracks chart and No. 54 on the RPM Top Singles chart in Canada.
 * B^ "Heart to Heart Talk" did not chart on Hot Country Songs, but peaked at No. 4 on Hot Country Radio Breakouts.

Grammy Awards

 * 1981
 * "Lookin' for Love"
 * Best Male Country Vocal Performance
 * Nominated
 * }
 * }

Music City News Country Awards

 * 1981
 * Johnny Lee
 * Most Promising Male Artist
 * Nominated
 * }
 * }

Academy of Country Music Awards

 * 1977
 * rowspan=2| Johnny Lee
 * Most Promising Male Vocalist
 * Nominated
 * rowspan=3| 1981
 * Top New Male Vocalist
 * Won
 * rowspan=2| "Lookin' for Love"
 * Song of the Year
 * Nominated
 * Single Record of the Year
 * Nominated
 * }
 * Single Record of the Year
 * Nominated
 * }
 * }

Other sources

 * "Johnny Lee Biography". CMT.com. Retrieved May 27, 2005.
 * "Johnny Lee - Biography". Official Johnny Lee Fan Club website. Retrieved May 27, 2005.
 * Johnny Lee with Randy Wyles. 1989. Lookin' for love. Diamond Books.

title: Johnny Lee (singer)


title: User:Stoive/testpage2


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Napan River

The Napan River in Canada is a tributary of the Miramichi River in New Brunswick, Canada. The river rises several kilometres southwest of Chatham in central Northumberland County and flows northeast into the Miramichi River at Napan Bay. Four bridges cross the river at various points: at Hannah Lane, Highway 11, Johnston Lane, and Highway 117. There was also once a crossing at White Lane. At one time, these bridges were covered, although all have been upgraded to steel and concrete structures.

the River's watershed is mostly rural, dominated by forests and small farms in the communities of Glenwood, Upper Napan, Centre Napan, Lower Napan and Napan Bay. The river is tidal below Lower Napan. It is generally well-buffered by sedimentary bedrock.

title: Napan River


text: User talk:193.77.86.240

title: User talk:193.77.86.240


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Eriogonum truncatum

Eriogonum truncatum, the Mount Diablo buckwheat, is a small pink wildflower, believed to have been extinct since 1936 until its rediscovery in 2005. The species is only known to live on Mount Diablo in Contra Costa County, northern California.

Habitat
It has been found on the edge of chaparral but may be a refugee there, squeezed out of more open areas by exotics. Since its rediscovery seeds have been collected for controlled propagation and preservation.

Description
Mt. Diablo buckwheat is an annual plant growing between 150 - 750 mm high. It blooms with several dozen pinkish flowers, having a maroon line down the center of each petal. The flower stalks branch upward in a wishbone pattern, with flowers blooming at the joint and ends of the wishbone.

History
The first recorded sighting of Mt. Diablo buckwheat was by William H. Brewer, the first Chair of Agriculture at the Yale University Sheffield Scientific School. He was Principal Assistant for botany on the Josiah Whitney-led California Geological Survey from 1860–1864. Brewer first recorded the Mt. Diablo buckwheat at John Marsh's Rancho Los Meganos at the northeast corner of Mt. Diablo, on May 29, 1862. Marsh was the first American settler in Contra Costa County (the present-day San Francisco East Bay) and a proponent of increased American emigration. Approximately 4,000 acres (16 km²) of the Marsh Ranch have been preserved around Marsh's stone house in the new Cowell Ranch State Park. From 1862–1936 the Mount Diablo buckwheat was found just a handful of times, for a total of seven historic records.

In 1936 Mary Leolin Bowerman, a graduate student at the University of California, Berkeley and who later co-founded the Save Mount Diablo organization in 1971, recorded the last sighting of Mt. Diablo buckwheat. Bowerman made two of the seven historic records, on opposite sides of Mt. Diablo, Contra Costa County, California during her floristic study between 1930 and 1936. Her 1936 Ph.D. was followed in 1944 by publication of The Flowering Plants and Ferns of Mt. Diablo, California. Much of Mt. Diablo has been preserved in the years since Bowerman's study was completed, as well as areas where other buckwheat records were established. However, the eastern areas of the plant's range are threatened by development pressure.

Until 2005 numerous botanical survey trips were unsuccessful in locating the buckwheat.

2005 Rediscovery
On May 10, 2005, Michael Park, a University of California, Berkeley graduate student, was conducting a floristic study on Mt. Diablo. While more thoroughly searching promising areas on the mountain that hadn't gotten enough attention, he realized he was surrounded by early blooming buckwheat. Once he realized that it was Mount Diablo buckwheat he was so shocked that: "I pretended it wasn't there and continued with my other work."

A week after the rediscovery, a collaboration of organizations including the California Department of Parks & Recreation, Save Mount Diablo, and the University of California at Berkeley announced the rediscovery of the Mt. Diablo buckwheat. Coming soon after the announcement of the potential rediscovery of the Ivory-billed woodpecker, the news traveled around the world in just a few days and appeared in thousands of media outlets including print, radio and television.

Propagation
Seeds were collected from wild plants in 2005. On June 7, 2006, members of the Mt. Diablo Buckwheat Working Group announced that the plant had survived and increased in the wild and that twelve plants had been propagated at the U.C. Botanical Garden at Berkeley. Seeds were again collected in the wild and from propagated plants in 2006 and 2007. 2006 seed yield from propagated plants included more than 40,000 seeds. 2007 seed yield from propagated plants included more than 145,000 seeds.

Restoration
The plant, an annual wildflower which dies after flowering and which is found at just one site, is still considered critically threatened. In December 2007 the Working Group seeded additional plots near the wild site.

2016 Rediscovery
It was reported in September 2016, that two botanists performing a wildflower survey in May 2016, at the Black Diamond Regional Preserve, a park near Mount Diablo, had unexpectedly found over a million Mount Diablo buckwheat specimens blooming on a hillside inside the preserve. Four organizations collaborated to withhold announcement of the discovery until the specimens had finished blooming and could produce seeds.

title: Eriogonum truncatum


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David Rosen (businessman)

David M. Rosen (born January 22, 1930) is an American businessman and the co-founder of the Japanese video game company Sega. He retired from the company as Chairman in 1996.

Rosen Enterprises, Ltd.
Rosen served in the United States Air Force from 1948 to 1952. He was primarily in Japan and the Far East during the Korean War, and remained there after his service. In 1954 Rosen started Rosen Enterprises, Inc., which focused on selling art created in Japan to the American market, and photo studios for Japanese identification cards. The photo business was called Photorama and Rosen established studios in hundreds of locations all over Japan.

In 1957, Rosen Enterprises, Ltd. shifted its focus and pioneered the importation and operation of coin-op amusement machines popular in the United States, to Japan to meet the growing leisure market. Rosen leveraged his existing business relationships and locations of his Photorama photo studios to roll out the amusement machines.

Sega Enterprises, Ltd.
In 1965, Rosen Enterprises, Ltd. Merged with Nihon Goraku Bussan, Ltd. (aka Service Games). Nihon Goraku Bussan, Ltd. used the brand name Sega (the name originates from SErvice GAmes Japan) for their jukeboxes and slot machines which were located on United States Military bases for amusement purposes. After the merger of the two companies, Sega Enterprises Ltd. was established and Rosen became Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of the resulting company.

Rosen co-founded the Japan Amusement Association in 1967 and was elected as Chairman.

Periscope
In 1966, under Rosen's direction, Sega Enterprises Ltd., created its first original game, called Periscope, which led to the introduction of 25¢ play in the United States and began Sega's export business.

Gulf+Western Industries, Inc.
After meeting with Charles Bluhdorn in 1969, Rosen and partners agreed to sell Sega Enterprises Ltd. to the conglomerate Gulf+Western Industries, Inc., although Rosen remained CEO of the Sega division. In the early 1970s Sega was made a subsidiary of Paramount Pictures Corporation, which was also owned by Gulf+Western. During this period Barry Diller and Michael Eisner, both at Paramount joined Rosen on the Board of Sega and Rosen joined the Board at Paramount.

In 1978, Sega Enterprises acquired a distribution company, Essco Tdg., that was founded by Hayao Nakayama and an arcade game manufacturer, Gremlin Industries.

After the passing of Charles Bluhdorn, Gulf+Western wanted to sell off manufacturing assets, including Sega. Consequently, Sega's United States assets were sold to Bally Manufacturing Corporation.

Sega, Ltd.
Having already moved his family to Los Angeles and not wanting to return to Japan full-time, Rosen declined the opportunity of solely purchasing the Japanese assets of Sega. In March 1984, Rosen and Hayao Nakayama put together a buyout group led by Isao Okawa and purchased Sega's Japanese assets. Okawa became Chairman and Nakayama became President of Sega Ltd. This allowed Rosen to remain in the states while Nakayama was charged with the day-to-day operations of Sega's headquarters in Japan.

Rosen agreed to set up Sega of America and oversee the US & overseas operations, and he became Chairman of Sega of America which was headquartered in Los Angeles. Rosen remained a Director of Sega (Japan) until 1996, and at that time he resigned from both Sega (Japan) and Sega of America.

Rosen is currently retired and living in Los Angeles.

Personal life
Rosen was born in Brooklyn, New York, the son of Fay (née Sachs) and Samuel Rosen. He married Masako Fujisaki in 1954, and adopted a daughter, Lisa. Rosen is Jewish.

title: David Rosen (businessman)


text:
Benjamin Lett

Benjamin Lett (14 November 1813–9 December 1858) was an Anglo-Irish-Canadian filibusterer who was a disciple of William Lyon Mackenzie.

Although he did not participate in the Upper Canada Rebellion, Lett was charged in 1838 with the murder of Captain Edgeworth Ussher who had piloted the boats of Allan Napier MacNab during what would come to be known as the Caroline affair. On the night of 16 November 1838, Ussher was roused from his bed to answer a knock on the door, only to be killed by a shot fired through a window.

Fleeing to the United States, in January 1839, Lett unsuccessfully attempted to burn British ships anchored at Kingston. That July, joined by Samuel Peters Hart and Henry J. Moon, the three embarked on a raid in Cobourg to rob and kill Robert Henry and abduct Sheppard McCormick, a veteran of the attack on the Caroline. However, word leaked out and the plot was foiled with Lett just managing to escape to the American side of Lake Ontario. In the wake of the "Cobourg conspiracy" Lieutenant Governor Sir George Arthur posted a reward of £500 for his capture. In March 1841 Lett attempted to burn the SS Minos but failed.

On 17 April 1840 came the act Lett is best known for; the bombing of the monument to British general Sir Isaac Brock near Queenston, Ontario. The explosion did serious and irreparable damage to the monument although it failed to bring it down. Although Lett was presumed to have orchestrated the plot, a subsequent Assizes (court hearing) failed to confirm this.

On or about 5 June 1840 in Oswego, New York, Lett attempted to burn the British steamship Great Britain while she was leaving the harbour. Shortly before departure, a man identifying himself as "Bill Johnson" boarded the ship, placing a package containing three gunpowder-filled jars connected to a lit slow match at the door to the ladies' cabin. A few minutes after departing the Oswego wharf, the package exploded. However the damage was limited to a few broken windows in the ladies' cabin and the skylight above. Returning to dock, "Bill Johnson" and his accomplice, Benjamin Lett were shortly apprehended. While being transported on the Auburn and Syracuse Railroad to serve a seven-year prison sentence for the crime, the shackled Lett escaped from the railroad car he was in and leaped to freedom when the train was within a few miles of its destination of Auburn, New York. This brought an additional $350 bounty for his capture; $250 by Governor William H. Seward and $100 by the Sheriff.

Lett was also suspected of having been responsible for the bombing of Lock #37 (Allanburg) of the first Welland Canal on 9 September of the next year. However, his luck in evading authorities on both sides of the border came to an end and that same month, he was captured in Buffalo, N.Y. and placed in solitary confinement in the Auburn prison. There he was mistreated, leading to his pardon in 1845 by the Governor of New York, Silas Wright.

In 1858 Lett was hired by whiskey maker Jonathan Reed in Earlville, Illinois to destroy the town school in retaliation for the mob of citizens that had destroyed his stock claiming it was poisoning the citizens. On 13 September 1858, the school exploded and during the resulting fire Lett and three others were arrested, with Lett being shot during his arrest.

While en route to Lake Michigan for a trading expedition, Lett died mysteriously of strychnine poisoning in Milwaukee. His brother Thomas would later claim that Tory agents were behind his death. He was buried in the Lette Cemetery, Northville, IL.

title: Benjamin Lett


text:
1T-SRAM

1T-SRAM is a pseudo-static random-access memory (PSRAM) technology introduced by MoSys, Inc. in September 1998, which offers a high-density alternative to traditional static random-access memory (SRAM) in embedded memory applications. Mosys uses a single-transistor storage cell (bit cell) like dynamic random-access memory (DRAM), but surrounds the bit cell with control circuitry that makes the memory functionally equivalent to SRAM (the controller hides all DRAM-specific operations such as precharging and refresh). 1T-SRAM (and PSRAM in general) has a standard single-cycle SRAM interface and appears to the surrounding logic just as an SRAM would.

Due to its one-transistor bit cell, 1T-SRAM is smaller than conventional (six-transistor, or "6T") SRAM, and closer in size and density to embedded DRAM (eDRAM). At the same time, 1T-SRAM has performance comparable to SRAM at multi-megabit densities, uses less power than eDRAM and is manufactured in a standard CMOS logic process like conventional SRAM.

MoSys markets 1T-SRAM as physical IP for embedded (on-die) use in System-on-a-chip (SOC) applications. It is available on a variety of foundry processes, including Chartered, SMIC, TSMC, and UMC. Some engineers use the terms 1T-SRAM and "embedded DRAM" interchangeably, as some foundries provide MoSys's 1T-SRAM as "eDRAM". However, other foundries provide 1T-SRAM as a distinct offering.

Technology
1T SRAM is built as an array of small banks (typically 128 rows × 256 bits/row, 32 kilobits in total) coupled to a bank-sized SRAM cache and an intelligent controller. Although space-inefficient compared to regular DRAM, the short word lines allow much higher speeds, so the array can do a full sense and precharge (RAS cycle) per access, providing high-speed random access. Each access is to one bank, allowing unused banks to be refreshed at the same time. Additionally, each row read out of the active bank is copied to the bank-sized SRAM cache. In the event of repeated accesses to one bank, which would not allow time for refresh cycles, there are two options: either the accesses are all to different rows, in which case all rows will be refreshed automatically, or some rows are accessed repeatedly. In the latter case, the cache provides the data and allows time for an unused row of the active bank to be refreshed.

There have been four generations of 1T-SRAM:
 * Original 1T-SRAM : About half the size of 6T-SRAM, less than half the power.
 * 1T-SRAM-M : Variant with lower standby power consumption, for applications such as cell phones.
 * 1T-SRAM-R : Incorporates ECC for lower soft error rates. To avoid an area penalty, it uses smaller bit cells, which have an inherently higher error rate, but the ECC more than makes up for that.
 * 1T-SRAM-Q : This "quad-density" version uses a slightly non-standard fabrication process to produce a smaller folded capacitor, allowing the memory size to be halved again over 1T-SRAM-R. This does add slightly to wafer production costs, but does not interfere with logic transistor fabrication the way conventional DRAM capacitor construction does.

Comparison with other embedded memory technologies
1T-SRAM has speed comparable to 6T-SRAM (at multi-megabit densities). It is significantly faster speed than eDRAM, and the "quad-density" variant is only slightly larger (10–15% is claimed). On most foundry processes, designs with eDRAM require additional (and costly) masks and processing steps, offsetting the cost of a larger 1T-SRAM die. Also, some of those steps require very high temperatures and must take place after the logic transistors are formed, possibly damaging them.

1T-SRAM is also available in device (IC) form. The GameCube was the first video game system to use 1T-SRAM as main memory storage; the GameCube possesses several dedicated 1T-SRAM devices. 1T-SRAM is also used in the successor to the GameCube, the Wii.

This is not the same as 1T DRAM, which is a "capacitorless" DRAM cell built using the parasitic channel capacitor of SOI transistors rather than a discrete capacitor.

MoSys claims the following sizes for 1T-SRAM arrays:

title: 1T-SRAM


text:
Talk:Deûle

comments
Could someone please add the picture back to this article? Acyso 18:19, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Deûle


text:
BT Broadband

BT Broadband is a broadband service offered by BT Consumer; a division of BT Group in the United Kingdom. It was formerly known as BT Total Broadband, BT Yahoo! Broadband and BT Openworld. With the introduction of BT Infinity, the Broadband package now refers to the legacy ADSL broadband products, such as ADSL Max and ADSL2+.

BT Home Hub
The BT Home Hub is a wireless Internet router from BT. It is based on the IEEE 802.11g (WiFi) standard and also supports IEEE 802.11b devices. It is significant as it marks BTs departure away from traditional telecommunications services and towards Internet and media products. It supports VoIP Internet calls and is compatible with existing DECT handsets. It works with the existing BT Fusion service and works with the BT Vision video on demand service. The device connects to the Internet using a standard ADSL connection. It will be able to support the WBC products using ADSL2+ (up to 24 Mb) when BT Wholesale launches them in April 2008. BT launched a new look Home Hub in October 2007 with an enhanced wireless footprint. In July 2008 the Home Hub was relaunched with a new smaller design, Draft-N wireless, additional connections and a new user interface; unlike the previous replacement, the new Home Hub was given a .0 release, making it the Home Hub 2.0.

BT Infinity
In January 2010, BT launched a new product called BT Infinity. 4 million homes in the UK are covered by this service. Most homes will get FTTC service and have up to 40 Mbit/s broadband, those with FTTP will get 100 Mbit/s and a 20 GB monthly usage allowance in 2010, with an unlimited package also offered. BT have since rolled out Infinity 2 offering up to 79 Mbit/s download and 19 Mbit/s upload with an unlimited package. Infinity customers are allowed to upgrade to Infinity 2, but must restart their 18-month contract.

title: BT Broadband


text:
Talk:Neoconservatism in Japan

Untitled
For a May 2005 deletion debate over this page see Votes for deletion/Neoconservatism (Japan)

Is "Neoconservatism" a concept widely used among Korean scholars and have a concrete defition? Or is it just a term that a Korean newspaper editorial used to refer to a group of conservative politicians in Japan just because they are conservatives and somewhat similar to the famous neo-conservatives of the U.S.? If the former were the case, then cite more credible sources to show that this concept is indeed a genuine, widely recognized one at least in the South Korean academina. If the latter were the case, then it doesn't merit a namespace on Wikipedia. For Wikipedia is not a place where you publicize your opinion, criticism, or the result of your original research. Saintjust 18:21, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, I think it's quite evident that the article isn't some sort of neologism or publicism of my opinion. As you can plainly see, the references for this article's text are linked to at the bottom--you can read them for yourself.  Those two newspapers are major mainstream Korean newspapers, the equal in stature to the NYTimes and the Washington Post in America.  In fact, I think the Choson Ilbo has the widest readership of any newspaper in South Korea.  The article text is quite NPOV and doesn't take a position one way or the other on whether it is right to label these Japanese politicians as 'neoconservatives.'  But the fact is, that in the Korean media, it appears that in multiple prominent newspapers, these particular politicians are referred to as neoconservatives.  And I think that's a notable phenomenon.  If you are disputing the factual accuracy or notability that's one thing, but the article text is NPOV.  I'm removing the tag.   —thames 06:05, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * It is just one newspaper editorial of Choson Ilbo that simply calls some young Japanese conservatives "neocon." That is hardly sufficient an evidence to show that the term is a widely recognized one among the Korean news media or academia. The editorial itself is very much the personal opinion of the author alone and so is not NPOV. It doesn't make it NPOV just because it's on some newspaper. Provide more objective sources, preferably scholastic books or pepers on Japanese politics, than a newspaper editorial. Korean language dictionary or the like would suffice as well. Also the article should have a Hangul rendering of the term if it's really a widely used term in South Korea. Please note that what I am contesting here is the general recognition of the term in South Korea, not the content of the article which is dubious on its own right. Saintjust 10:18, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * According to NPOV policy, an article is supposed to accurately describe all points of view without asserting any particular one. I don't know what other points of view there are.  I assume that you have sources for the other points of view.  But instead of constructively contributing to the article, you've slapped an NPOV tag on it, without giving specific, actionable criticisms.  The entire article comes paraphrased straight from two Korean newspaper sources.  As I am not able to read Korean, I cannot check to see if the Korean version of the Choson Ilbo newspaper has a Hangul rendering of 'neoconservative'.  However, neither is labeled as an op-ed, as you assert they are—both are displayed as normal news/politics stories.  As normal newspieces, they do not represent the personal opinion of only one person, but represent the news, or at the very least, the editorial line of the two largest newspapers in Korea.  If you have specific issues with the text, by all means, be bold and fix it.  But don't put an unactionable dispute tag on a sourced/cited/referenced article without providing some sort of evidence or constructive criticism.   —thames 03:54, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Like I said, the "view" at dispute here is the general recognition of the term "neoconservatism," not the view expressed in its definition by the Choson Ilbo article. If you just want to write about a group of young conservative politicians in Japan, go to Politics of Japan or Japanese politicians or some other generic namespace related to Japanese politics. It doesn't become an established term just because one newspaper article calls something that name. Saintjust 04:23, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * If you feel that it does not warrant a separate namespace, please list it on VFD and state your case there. NPOV is about the article text's neutrality.  For questions about whether the article itself should exist, go to VFD.  I'm removing the NPOV tag.  I'll expect you to create a subpage on VFD for this article.   —thames 13:35, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * For what it's worth, I agree that the article is written with good NPOV and the POV tag is inappropriate. However, it looks like the "Neoconservative" label may only be being used in the Korean media.  What is this subject or loose political movement called in Japan or in the west?  Is there a label with greater widespread use or that is more accurate to describe this subject? Cla68 13:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, of the sources for the article, two are Korean (Choson, Dong-a), two are based in Hong Kong (Ta Kung Pao, Time ASIA), one in Japan, one in the UK (the FT), and one international wire service. It's pretty broadly based a term in a regional/geographical sense.—thames 14:10, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

 * After googling a bit, it appears that the korean rendering of neoconservative and neocon are, respectively: 新보수주의자 or 신보수주의자 or ‘신(新)보수주의 (all of which appear relatively similar, to me, a non-Korean speaker/reader) and 혹은 or 네오콘.  —thames 18:54, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Recommend deletion
This page was recommended for deletion in 2005, but kept. Apparently, the article was based on an article where a journalist compared politicians in Japan to American neo-conservatives. However, there is no group in Japan know as or called "neo-conservatives". Therefore the article should be deleted. The Four Deuces (talk) 02:54, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Shitaro Ishihara's argument is not new.--240D:1A:517:E300:94C0:3226:49AF:2B3C (talk) 13:46, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Neoconservatism in Japan


text:
Patent family

A patent family is a set of patents or patent applications in various countries in relation to a single invention, for example when a first application in a country – the priority application – is extended to other countries. In other words, a patent family is "the same invention disclosed by a common inventor(s) and patented in more than one country." Patent families can be regarded as a "fortuitous by-product of the concept of priorities for patent applications".

Definitions
The International Patent Documentation Centre (INPADOC), the European Patent Office (EPO) and WIPO recognize the following definitions of simple and extended patent families:

Simple patent family: All patent documents have exactly the same priority date or combination of priority dates.

Extended patent family: All patent documents are linked (directly or indirectly) via a priority document belonging to one patent family. The extended families allow for additional connectors to link other than strictly priority date. These include: domestic application numbers, countries that have not ratified the Paris Convention, or if the application was filed too late to claim priority.

Those are not the only possible definitions of a patent family, however. Another definition, which is broader than the "simple patent family" definition but narrower than the "extended patent family" definition, is to consider that "[a]ll the documents having at least one common priority belong to the same patent family."

In general, "[p]atent families are [effectively] defined by databases, not by national or international laws, and family members for a particular invention can vary from database to database."

title: Patent family


text: Category:Ganbare Goemon games

title: Category:Ganbare Goemon games


text:
Talk:Thug Behram

Picture
The Picture is of Late Ustad Ziauddin Khan Dagar, a doyen of Rudraveena from Dagarvani Style of Dhrupad Music. He was a court Musician at Royal Court of Udaipur (A former Princely State in, Rajasthan, India). The original author of this article has published this image, without knowing its original personality. A sad day for Indian Classical Music. Anuvab.palit (talk) 08:39, 2 October 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anuvab.palit (talk • contribs) 08:31, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Was he alone?
I don't recall the name of the book off my memory, but I read that the thugees were a group, and they conducted murders in groups, not just Behram alone. So, I wonder if he can be put into this list as the killer in all these cases. --Ragib 18:23, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

In "The Top Ten of Everything 1996" (ISBN 0-7894-0196-7, Page 65) they cite Behram as being convicted at his trial of personally committing 931 murders. It also says the cult itself is estimated to have killed upwards of 2,000 people. MrB

 * The Thuggee were known to have been active from the 17th to 19th centuries, until the British wiped them out. The death toll caused by the cult as a whole is uncertain, but estimates very from 50,000 to as high as 2,000,000 murders. 24.214.230.66 (talk) 04:39, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Manuscript sources
I have updated this stub to take into account the original source for the statement that Behram killed as many as 931 people. His statement has been read out of context and, in addition, his actual confession was to actively participating in the killing of no more than 125 people. Mikedash 14:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Contradictions
This article makes no sense, in the introduction it claims the number of murders to be in the 900s and then in the "analysis" this is reduced to only 125 killed by Behram. Shabba3001 (talk) 00:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Another contradiction (or at least missing information): If he was never tried for the murders, why was he hanged? --AndreasPraefcke (talk) 20:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Analysis
The whole "analysis" section is poorly written and speculative. If the speculation is on the part of verifiable sources, it should be sourced. If not, it doesn't belong here. I'm going to remove it. Rees11 (talk) 23:53, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's the removed text:

 * Attribution of so many killings to this one murderer is, however, the product of confusion and mistaken reporting of unchecked statements. The original source for Behram's 'confession' is a manuscript on Thuggee written by James Paton, an East India Company officer working for the Thuggee and Dacoity Office in the 1830s. Paton's manuscript - now in the British Library - states that Behram had merely estimated that he had "been present" at 931 cases of murder, the killings themselves being committed by a gang of 25 to 50 men, at least half a dozen of whom, other than Behram himself, would have played an active role as stranglers.

 * In addition, Behram's statement is unverified and Thug never stood trial for any of the murders he confessed to, having turned King's Evidence and agreed to inform on his companions.

 * It should further be emphasised that this Thug gave a second, much less publicised, account, concerning the actual number of murders he committed. At another point in Paton's papers, Behram is quoted as saying: "I may have strangled with my own hands about 125 men, and I may have seen strangled 150 more".

 * Since Behram's alleged murders were committed in the course of a 50-year career, and since it was in Thug informers' interests to make themselves appear as important as possible to their British captors, it is not certain whether any specific total number of killings can be attributed to this one murderer.

Rees11 (talk) 17:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Serial killer?
He doesn't seem to meet the definition of serial killer as it is used here on Wikipedia. Rees11 (talk) 23:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Sources and Expansion
This article is way too short and needs to be expanded in far more detail than what it currently has. Information pertaining to Behram's early life, time in the cult, murders, arrest/execution, and legacy should all be added to the article with proper citations from reliable sources given for each piece of information. Considering how prolific Behram was, it's sad to see this article in such a state of underdevelopment. There is plenty of information on Behram than can be included from the article on the Thuggees. I will include a list of sources that can be added to the article at a later date. --Paleface Jack (talk) 17:29, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thug Behram


text:
Grafschaft (disambiguation)

Grafschaft is a German term for county, in the sense that it is an area which belongs (or belonged) to a count (Graf).

Grafschaft can also refer to:

 * Grafschaft, Rhineland, a municipality in Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
 * Grafschaft (Schmallenberg), a part of Schmallenberg, in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
 * Grafschaft Abbey, in Schmallenberg
 * Grafschaft (Lenne), a river of North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
 * Grafschaft, Switzerland, a municipality of the canton of Valais

title: Grafschaft (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:South West Trains

Queenstown Road
Having added to this article I still find the listing of the suburban services difficult to put across, since they consist of interwoven services, often using the same lines for parts of their routes. I am going to have a further look at this - I think I can see the way to tackle it. Give me time! Peter Shearan 18:29, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I removed Queenstown Road from the list of stations which all trains pass through on their way into Waterloo - it only has platforms on the Windsor Lines, so isn't served or passed through by trains on the SW main line. Pedantic, I guess, but Wikipedia is a pedant's paradise. --Mpk 12:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * So all trains pass by it but not through it? Pcb21| Pete 13:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Correct. While it's possible for trains from the main line to reach the Windsor lines from CJ (there's a crossover not far from the country end of QR station), the platforms themselves are on the Windsor lines only. The four tracks of the main line pass by, but not through the station. --Mpk 19:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

(Following paragraph restored although it had been deleted, as the paragraph following it makes no sense otherwise. --Mpk 19:42, 3 January 2006 (UTC))

 * Surely some mention of what an officious bunch of jobsworths seem to be employed by SWT should be made. The quality of service is pretty dire and their booking staff (call centre) are devoid of any customer service skills at all. - Den 03 Jan 2006

 * Feel free to add this information to the article iff you can do so without breaking the policies on Neutral point of view and No original research. In this case the latter means that you will need to cite some published reports on the quality of service provided by South West Trains - perhaps the relevant Rail Passengers Council have something? Also please Sign your posts on talk pages by typing four tildes ~ . Thryduulf 12:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed, it is not fair to simply put your own opinion. I travel in to waterloo each day from Raynes Park, though which a large majority of the suburban services past, and can tell you the quality of service is very good! Also, saying that trains do not all pass through Queenstown Road is very very pedantic, so I assume that also means that main line trains don't also pass through Raynes Park, or Berrylands, which they clearly do..... ~ Jrhilton 21:02, 31 March 2008 (GMT)

 * Well that is true, but only because the main line is the middle two of four tracks through those stations. When you get to Queenstown Road, the main line is quite segregated from the single island platform. 86.139.20.55 (talk) 18:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC) Dmccormac (talk) 18:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

 * True, I stand corrected, lets agree, all mainline trains pass "over" Queenstown Road station, as there is a tunnel under the lines for passenger access.....Also, to explain the complex Suburban services, I feel that the best way is a graphical representation, followed by the line details below......anyone agree, and when will the Office of Rail Regulation statistics for 2006/07 passenger number stats be published, its interesting to note that passenger usage on a lot of the Suburban stations operated by SWT actually went down between 2004/05 and 2005/06 according to the published stats, and I'm interested to know why, fair dodging, more travel card usage, or less people using trains, etc maybe more travel card usage i suspect? ~ Jrhilton 21:02, 31 March 2008 (GMT)

 * I see no reason why travelcard users would not be counted. They are still paying passengers. Perhaps travelcards and season tickets don't get counted at the ungated stations? It is in SWT's interests to count them as best it can. The more it can show the travelcards being used the better it can argue for an increased share of the their revenue. --DanielRigal (talk) 19:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yep, I think it is because most of the stations on the Suburban Route do not have ticket gates. From a personal perspective there are no gates at Raynes Park, so if you did not have a ticket, you could still travel to countless locations, e.g. New Malden, Berrylands, Thames Ditton, Hampton Court, Hampton Wick, Norbiton, Teddington, Fulwell, Hampton, Kepmton Park, Sunbury, Upper Halliford, Shepperton, and almost all stations between here and Guildford plus Chessington South, and by changing at Surbiton you could get out of most stations on the Alton Line too etc, so in reality thinking about it, most of the stations don't. I was going to suggest we put in each station page if there are barriers, but that might be used by fair dodgers as a good dictionary of which stations they can get to for free.... Judging by the number of people caught when there are ticket inspections here at Raynes Park, I would say fair dodging is rife and a big problem which is bad as it does effect us fair paying passengers. Though from the recent moving of ticket machines and building work, it looks like ticket barriers could be coming here quite soon, no doubt related to the idea of being able to use PrePay on rail services......I believe that the system for sharing/allocating travelcard revenue includes some estimates for passenger usage as there are so many train stations out of zone 2 that do not have barriers  plus on sundays often barriers are left open for most of the day when stations are not fully staffed, and it is hard as a result to estimate usage exactly....someone must have a quite interesting job working it all out, or maybe they just have to press enter on a computer somewhere...... ~ Jrhilton 21:02, 18 May 2008 (GMT)

Lead image
The lead image was previously a Class 170. This was replaced by withdrawnwith the comment "I have changed the picture of the train at the top of this article, because the old train shown was of a fleet which South West Trains are throwing out, and the new in service for forseeable future." The new image referred to is of the single Class 960 (ex. Class 121) that SWT use for route learning. While this is undoubtedly a good photograph, it is not representative of the SWT fleet. The picture is in the fleet section, and it does belong there. The lead image should illsutrate a typical and distinctive aspect of the article. For this reason I changed the picture to a Class 442 unit - which are used on the SWT Waterloo-Bournemouth-Weymouth route and are unique to the SWT franchise. I explained this in my edit summary: "change lead picture again. The Class 960 unit is used only for route learning, replaced with a Class 442 used on the mainline services to Weymouth" Without comment, the lead image was changed back to the Class 960 unit by withdrawn. So I have changed it back to the Class 442 with the edit summary "change lead picture back to a Class 442 for the same reason as last time - see talk" I would like the comments of others regarding this. For full disclosure the Class 442 image used is a photograph I took. withdrawn took and uploaded the Class 960 image. Thryduulf 10:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

CPeter: I have put the 442 back because it gives SWT a better image, as well as being some of the most reliable trains in the country, they have the nicest interior (including Compartments for first class.) and buffet cars, not to mention being cyclist friendly; they have guard's vans. As this picture is also down the page, I will replace the below picture with something else. For ease of reference here are the three images in question:

Thryduulf 10:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree that the image should be of a more modern train; since the company have gone to such lengths to introduce new trains, we should show them rather than old stock. David Arthur 15:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

South West are the most active player in Community and Heritage programmes. Therefore it fits that a train affliated to such be shown. However, the trains that operate the heritage line are not in South West Trains livery. The Class 121 unit, however, is and so fits both of my specified criteria: it portrays the heritage status, but is in a fitting livery for a lead image. For that reason have I restored the lead image to the original.
 * Maybe so but it hardly represents the train passengers are mostly likely to travel on, there is 1 bubble car, not used by any passenger and the 2 Cigs which are confined to a 3-4 mile (CPeter: Lymington Branch is 5.5 miles long.) branchline that newer stock cannot operate. Compare that with the 110 Class 450's (increasing by 17), 45 Class 444s, 91 Class 455s, 9 Turbostars (though they are leaving), 24 Class 442s, 2 Class 158s and 22 Class 159s (The 158/159 fleet will increase by upto another 17) I'd hardly say SWT were a heritage operation. The vast majority of passengers will be traveling on Desiros and 455s, the lead picture should be representative of the current fleet and that means Desiros and 455s. By your reasoning Chiltern's bubble should be top of their page, same with Arriva's when it arrives next month*, with the DfT wanting Pacers on community rail should First Great Western's lead image be changed to a pacer on  April 1st. (*correct me if they already have it) Enotayokel 20:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * So why not have the 5WES? This suits both of you as it has compartments for 1st class passengers, like slam door trains, they have 24 so it is quite likely for you to get one, and it is also in their own livery. I agree with CPeter, they give SWT a better image.
 * Never been on one my self, I live at the end of the West Of England line, so its solely 159s with the odd Turbostar if the dispatchers are feeling sadistic (never been on a Turbostar, but have been in a formation with one, my portion was the 159 with the 170 being detached halfway), but yep, they carry passengers so satisfy that requirement, and their 1960's motors/electrical gubbins could qualify them as heritage. ;) - Mind you I've only been in two compartment trains, an Italian owned coach on a Cross border, and the German ICE which has compartments in most coaches, prefer open seating myself Enotayokel 19:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the lead image to the one which was there until Unisouth replaced it on the 3rd of May (full disclosure - I took the picture, but I didn't originally place it in the header myself!) and which isn't used elsewhere in the article. As far as the above is concerned, I figure that a pair of 450s at Waterloo is about as representative an image of SWT as you'll find. --Mike 21:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that it should either be a Five Wes or a 455, as SWT have refurbished both and are in their own livery.
 * I've reverted this as 455s aren't really exclusive to SWT, and a tight shot of a 442 didn't exactly say much other than letting the viewer see what the front end of a 442 looks like. I think that 450s at Waterloo are far more.. eh, as I said above. Iconic, like. Most SWT commuters don't commute on 442s, and the image of SWT is overwhelmingly as a commuter railway. Also, sign your comments, please. Four tildes, like this: --Mike 22:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Messy Desiros & Bad Photos
I have just cleaned up the desiro section of the article. I have... I have to say the section is much better now. Lenny 11:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed stupid statement on the picture of 450 seats
 * Put it in a better position with the other desiro photo, right at 200px
 * & removed bad photo of the passenger information screen

Does this article even need a photo on train seats? Simply south 13:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think not - would be better posted under the Class 450 article - Enotayokel 10:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Picture reverted!
Main picture reverted, better image, nicer look, a 5WES at Waterloo
 * Kept the WES theme (though TBH I'm not fussed as long as something used in passenger service on the main line) - but changed it to a brighter and less gloomy picture that shows the livery better (for the title) - really the title picture should be something generic to show the livery and TOC rather then the train - Enotayokel 16:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I am to remove the wessex electric double and place a better image in its place, you cant see much of a train or livery in it. Unisouth 07:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But it is now one that is used Three times in the article already. Lets not have another revert war, but let us have some variety - Enotayokel 19:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Put varied pictures of desiros in the article. Unisouth 18:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Sout Western dates
Copied from 94.'s page

I don't think the information should be added to South West Trains as it is effectively a new franchise, seperate from the old one. Anyway, the new information cannot be added to SW trains' article as it is going to be a new, different company. Simply south 18:36, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

UK vs England
Some anon keeps changing "United Kingdom" to "England" as the name of the country SWT operates in. Please stop doing so, random anon. The National Rail network covers the whole of Great Britain, which includes Scotland and Wales as well as England. SWT's particular area of responsibility is mentioned further down. --Mike 02:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:South West Trains logo.gif
Image:South West Trains logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Class 121 → Class 960
The described Class 121 in the Current Fleet section is actually a Class 960, so i have changed it! Many Thanks  AC Best  18:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Island Line sub-brand
there should be a section on this. Simply south 21:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Stagecoach Island line.jpg
Image:Stagecoach Island line.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Citation of Criticisms
I've added a couple of citation needed tags to Criticisms section. The only thing I could find was this article - and it doesn't mention the bit about bonuses:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1969212.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabdiel (talk • contribs) 13:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree it doesn't say they get bonuses, but does say they are judged according to the number of penalty fares. "A confidential memo, obtained by The Times, reveals that South West Trains is introducing a system under which guards are judged according to the amount they collect in penalties. The memo, headed “commercially sensitive, please do not circulate”, instructs guards to treat passengers as fare dodgers even if they come up to the guard on the train and ask to buy a ticket. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by Standoor (talk • contribs) 13:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Edits by 79.72.28.96
Would someone please have a look at the edit history of 79.72.28.96, both to SWT and to the Portsmouth Direct Line page? To me, the edits look counter-productive. If so, further effort may be needed to stop these edits. David Biddulph (talk) 12:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

And I assume that 79.72.93.56 is probably the same editor. David Biddulph (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Smart tickets
In the tickets section of the article it talks about smart tickets. It's not clear whether these are South West's own ones or whether they are Oyster cards. Can someone clarify? Imcdnzl (talk) 13:29, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
 * DONE That was my fault, I've clarified it now. --Wintonian (talk) 18:13, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Citation needed on a couple of ticketing sections
Requesting citation on some of the information in Ticketing, especially Platform Ticketing (I've put in a notice there)

89.168.108.163 (talk) 18:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 * SWT's web site seem to contradict the information in the article see: "Please note that you may require a platform ticket to allow access to platforms or you may be asked to sign in at gated stations." Shall we just remove the sub-section as it's not clear?--Wintonian (talk) 21:28, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Clearing up
There are images that take up virtually the entire width of the page. I also can't see any citations for these units entering service.85.210.144.225 (talk) 08:43, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * All complete nonsense: none of those trains is transferring to SWT. I have deleted them. -- Alarics (talk) 08:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Reverted edit
On 22 February at 21:11 I made an edit to this article replacing the "routes" section with a frequency table. I have done this because I believe that such tables are considerably easier to read and more feasible, as well as being easier to edit (should there be a timetable change). This was reverted by Charlesdrakew, stating that "Wikipedia is generally written in prose" (even though many other British TOC articles, such as Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern and Great Western Railway also contain similar tables).

Whose edit is more appropriate? Mvpo666 (talk) 16:26, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

 * You may find tables easier to read, but they can also interrupt the reading of the article, presenting instead a wall, a massive block of detail. "Other stuff exists" is a notoriously problematic argumnt on Wikipedia; looking at those other articles I notice that the table in Great Western Railway was only introduced in November, by a new, determined and now blocked editor, . NebY (talk) 00:17, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Is there any evidence that tables are easier to read, or to edit. As for being "more feasible", what the heck does that mean? The existing style has served perfectly well for years and meets the editing guideline WP:USEPROSE. There is no point in adding a table other than for the sake of having a table.Charles (talk) 20:29, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I find Tables easier to read, it can help organise the information about the route rather than reading one big chunk of words in a massive paragraph. And the table which was done here, I find, was more informative, but it could be improved upon by other editors rather than removing it completely. The current one is in my opinion not very Encyclopaedic. The only one problem with the table is that it may fail WP:NOTGUIDE but the one on the Southern article has been there for some time so NOTGUIDE doesn't apply I don't think.'''Class455fan1 (talk) 21:06, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You are missing the point that Wikipedia articles should generally be written in prose.Charles (talk) 21:53, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no prose in the current Route section. All there is is a list of destinations in sentence form. I doubt that is prose. I think the table was a lot better. Tables are allowed and how they can be used can be found on MOS:TABLE, however I can't be bothered to read it right now, as i need to sleep! '''Class455fan1 (talk) 22:55, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have just tried to bring the table back into the article; however, this time I have not removed the sentences that were already there, and on top of that, I have added some more. In other words, the article is still mostly written in prose; not a single piece of information has been removed from the article. The only significant difference is the additional service table at the end of the section. This was in order to try and keep everyone relatively happy: the users who wanted it written in prose are satisfied, and those who wanted the table (including me) are also satisfied.
 * However, a user named has reverted my edit again. Is there any reason for this? Surely at this point reverting the edit only removes a large amount of content and does not improve the quality of the article in any way? Mvpo666 (talk) 18:58, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I apologize for the reverts - I hadn't bothered to check the talkpage prior to the reverts so I just assumed the editor was just adding this back without any consensus, Anyway I've self reverted, Thanks, – Davey 2010 Talk 19:13, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * No worries. I hope it'll also get accepted by the other users who were originally against the table. Mvpo666 (talk) 19:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I have reverted the table. No consensus for it. Wikipedia is not a route guide. Utterly unencyclopedic.Charles (talk) 20:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't see why you have a problem with the table sitting alongside prose. I have even made an effort to add more detail into the paragraphs that were already there.
 * In fact, now that I look at the old version, I don't think it's very encyclopedic either. The Routes section is literally an exhaustive list of major stations served by the company. No detail, no elaboration; just one mere sentence (which, by the way, isn't even grammatically correct). The Main lines and Suburban services sections are slightly better but they're not written in prose form, either: they just list the railway lines (in bullet points, without full sentences!) and very occasionally they mention where trains terminate. They're also terribly inconsistent: for example, the "London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Basingstoke and Eastleigh" service is separate from the "South Western Main Line" service even though they operate on the exact same route, while the Alton Line is in the Suburban section despite being a Mainline service.
 * Whereas in the new (reverted) version, the Mainline services and Suburban services sections go into a fairly good amount of detail: they say what the railway lines are called, where these lines start and end, whether the line is electrified or not, what kinds of services run on the given line, and it even states what type of train is used on a given service. Furthermore, most of it is written in full sentences (albeit still in bullet-point form), making it a lot more proselike. The only thing these two sections don't talk about is the frequency of services and the stopping pattern for each service - which is exactly what the table is for.
 * The table itself, I admit, is not very encyclopaedic. However, compared to the previous (current?) content of the Routes section, which was terribly unencyclopaedic as well, it's not really much of a change. The old version is a list of all major stations served by South West Trains, while the other is a list of all services operated by South West Trains. That is the only significant difference between them.
 * To sum up, I do not understand why you are constantly reverting my edits under arguments like "this is too unencyclopaedic" and "this lacks prose", while simultaneously reverting back to a version that is even less proselike and even less encyclopaedic. Mvpo666 (talk) 21:42, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:NOT is policy and trumps anything that may be decided here by local consensus. Such tables will be removed.Charles (talk) 10:12, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * First of all, I have read the whole WP:NOT article and it does not mention anything about such "service tables". Even the WP:NOTTRAVEL (Wikipedia is not a travel guide) subsection doesn't say that tables aren't allowed (either explicitly or implicitly). So don't bring up the argument that the table violates the "What Wikipedia Is Not" policy; it simply doesn't.
 * Secondly, I would like to point out that most TOC articles already have a similar service pattern table. Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains, Greater Anglia, Great Western Railway, London Midland, London Overground, Southeastern, Southern, TfL Rail, Thameslink and Great Northern, TransPennine Express, Virgin Trains and Virgin Trains East Coast all have some sort of service pattern table within their articles (some are more detailed than others). Moreover, no one has attempted to remove them; everyone seems to be okay with the tables in other articles (there were even several edit wars over changes to the tables due to new timetables being released). So if service tables are allowed there, why wouldn't it be allowed here?
 * Thirdly, you've raised a valid point about the edit lacking citations (although the old version didn't have any citations either...) so I have now added a few sources, mostly from the South West Trains official website.
 * Lastly, you still haven't responded to any points I had raised in the above response. I'm still waiting for a constructive argument against them. Mvpo666 (talk) 18:09, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Despite there being no consensus above for your edits, you have again that others have removed. It's not just the addition of a frequency table, but a whole lot of other changes. Quite apart from going against WP:BRD, I would like you to please explain why WP:3RR should not apply to you. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:07, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * the local consensus was not to remove the table; it was to keep the prose (as per WP:USEPROSE). Other users were initially unhappy with my edits mainly because back in February, I have removed all of the "proselike" content, not because of the table itself. Aside from the fact that the entire section had very little prose to begin with (as I have explained above), the reason I have now decided to try and add the table back was because this time, I thought I have edited the article in such a way that everyone would be happy. The table is there for users like me, who wanted the table, while the prose is also still there for those who wanted to keep the prose. Not only that: I have added a whole lot of extra prose content. I'm afraid I don't understand why some users (or rather one user) are still complaining about this.
 * "It's not just the addition of a frequency table, but a whole lot of other changes" - please enlighten me what exactly is wrong with these "other changes". I have: added a lot of useful information with much detail, modified the existing information such that it was written mostly in full sentences (i.e. prose), added no less than 16 reliable references (previously there were none; I thought Wikipedia was all about references, right?), corrected a few errors (e.g. Alton Line is not a Metro route) and improved the poor grammar of the previous version. I'm not trying to be egotistical here but I'm afraid don't see a single aspect in which the old version was better than the new one.
 * As for the WP:3RR rule, which apparently I've broken: as far as I am aware, I have only reverted twice within a 24-hour period. and . After those, I received a message from Charles on my own talk page stating that I should not add such large pieces of information without adding reliable sources. That is what I did in : I added about a dozen of sources in order to back up the additional content. This wasn't a revert of Charles' edit, but rather an improvement to my own earlier edit. So unless that counts as a third revert (which I don't think it does), I have only made two reverts so far. I only would have violated the rule if I reverted it again now (which I am not going to anymore, until we reach some sort of agreement; you were quite correct about me going against WP:BRD).
 * Mvpo666 (talk) 21:34, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You added the table [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_West_Trains&action=history&offset=20161031181000&limit=12 four times in the space of 24 hours 25 minutes]. WP:3RR states "fourth reverts just outside the 24-hour period may also be taken as evidence of edit-warring". It seems to me that you waited for the 24 hours to expire, then re-added the table. What you did not do was wait for people like and  to agree, or even wait for comment in your RfC (below, and please note that RfCs normally run for 30 days, not 18 hours).
 * See also WP:NOTTIMETABLE, WP:NOTDIRECTORY, WP:NOTTRAVEL, WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE. -- Red rose64 (talk) 00:52, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * MV - The whole point of me suggesting an RFC was to stop the whole edit warring bollocks - Everyone has far more productive things to do than to edit war over this seriously, As RedRose notes it honestly does seem like you've waited for 24 hours to expire just to revert again ...., Also whilst I'm here I was wrong to say there was consensus here - I read Class445s comment and more or less assumed everyone was fine with it ... I was wrong and for that I apologize, But everything aside I really cannot understand why you'd choose to edit war despite me literally giving you some rope here, It's times like this that I question why I even bother helping people who quite honestly don't want to be helped. – Davey 2010 Talk 01:18, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Like I already said, I have only reverted an edit twice. I didn't "wait for the 24 hours to expire, then re-add the table" because I didn't even make three reverts (never mind four reverts) yet. Also, even if you do count the third "revert" (the one with additional references) as an actual revert, then I have in fact done all three in under 24 hours (oops) so obviously I haven't waited. But again, I don't think that particular edit should be considered a revert.
 * Where did you get the idea that I "don't want to be helped" from? I am trying to reach some form of mutual agreement here; I can't reach it without the help from everyone involved. The problem is, I have a feeling that both Redrose64 and Charles aren't even trying to come to an agreement at all. Charles was continually reverting my edits under multiple different arguments (few of which are still valid), yet when I explained why I disagree with him, he never responded to any of it. He still hasn't yet responded to any of the arguments I've raised in this thread. Redrose64 just started criticising me for violating about 5 rules at once (and [s]he was partly right, for which I do apologise), but [s]he never stated what [s]he has against the content of my edits. In fact I'm not entirely sure [s]he's read any of the content at all. [S]he just saw that I'd tried to add the same content a few times in a row so [s]he decided to remove it and effectively turned this thread from a discussion about me justifying the table into one about me justifying my own actions. I doubt that was his/her intention but that's basically what happened.
 * This is why I don't think we're making any progress here: I have been misunderstood by everyone else because of a few things I probably should have approached in a different way. Anyway, I again apologise for all of that.
 * Now let me try and steer away from all the accusations, and bring this back into a sensible, constructive discussion by starting from the beginning. I have three questions to everyone involved who is unhappy with my recent edits: 1. why are you not satisfied with the service table? 2. why are you not happy with the "other changes" (i.e. the addition of extra detail to already-existing bullet points in the Mainline and Suburban subsections, and adding a couple of references)? 3. Do you have any suggestions on how we can compromise?
 * I am hoping that this approach will allow us to reach some sort of consensus more quickly. Mvpo666 (talk) 16:12, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Request For Comment about the service pattern table and extra content
Should the Services section contain the service pattern table in the Routes section, and extra content on Mainline, Suburban and Other subsections? Mvpo666 (talk) 23:45, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Opinions
 * No - (Randomly invited by bot) I think train schedules and route specifics are inappropriate detail/ephemera for this project. I recommend using external links to that content. Jojalozzo (talk) 22:04, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
 * From WP:NOTTIMETABLE: "Simply replicating information from published timetables, or repeating information (such as train times or service hours) which is subject to frequent change, may be considered directory writing. Distinguish between stating, for example, that a station is served by a certain number of trains per hour, and specifying the times of those trains. The former is information about the significance of the station; the latter is timetable information." Jojalozzo (talk) 20:20, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Threaded Discussion
 * summoned by bot. Don't see "the" service pattern table or know what one is. Think "extra content" needs to be defined. Elinruby (talk) 08:27, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * - Mvpo666 is asking which of [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_West_Trains&action=history&offset=20161030000000&dir=prev&limit=14 these versions] is preferred. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:16, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You've linked to the history and not to a diff, so it's not clear which versions you're trying to point out to us. --David Biddulph (talk) 14:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I linked to a particular section of the history, the period of two days where the disputed content was repeatedly being added and removed. If you look at any of the diffs where the change in size is more than 10,000 characters (added or removed) you'll see which bits these are. Changes of 40 or so bytes don't really matter in relation to the greater picture. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Is it a sort of timetable? My initial reaction was the whole article is more than I want to know, but I realize that I might feel much differently if I lived in SW England so I am ignoring that initial reaction. I will try to give the question a serious answer if someone will enunciate what it is...Elinruby (talk) 14:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Do you mean the Services section and routes table in this version?    The info seems alright.  Could the table be listed in a drop down box or reference an external schedule?  I am not certain what is the cause for the dispute, the reason for the reverts?   Thank you, CuriousMind01 (talk) 12:35, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Having read the above dispute, I am not really sure what to think. This huge table seems a bit obtrusive, but the thing it's replacing seems to be just an unstructured list of routes, and it seems like an improvement over that. It seems like more information than I would want, but as ElinRuby mentioned, this article may not exactly be for me. I'd probably weakly support the change, but it would be good if the disputants could boil down their arguments to the bare essentials. I don't see how WP:NOT plays into this at all. 0x0077BE  ( talk ·  contrib ) 20:32, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no issue with the information that seems to be in question, as long as it's referenced appropriately. As for formatting, we could discuss the manner of its inclusion, be it via tables or otherwise. Personally I'd suggest collapsible tables, so that if a reader is interested in such information they can easily click to see it. Those are by brief thoughts on this, viewed from afar. Best, FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  20:49, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
 * No - Summoned by bot. The routes AND timetables are overkill.  I would remove everything related to frequency, and the entire routes section, but compromise by keeping the main lines and suburban services sections.  Services can also use some culling.  For example, does mankind really need to know that non-folding bicycles are banned from peak-time trains to and from London?Timtempleton (talk) 08:02, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Obviously yes More information is better than less, and the suggested information is not only accurate, it is backed by testable references and citations. Damotclese (talk) 21:02, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Question: How often does the train-per-hour type information change? Does it require as-of type tagging? Chris vLS (talk) 19:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Very rarely. No.  --David Biddulph (talk) 00:20, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

South Western Railway
A number of items have been added relating to rolling stock ordered by First/MTR for use under their South Western Railway franchise. These are nothing to do with South West Trains and don't belong on this page in my opinion.

The class 707 was at least ordered by South West Trains, even if they may never see service with them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feathers44 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Class 153
There is no mention of SW Trains using any Class 153 trains in this article, but I notice a class 153 that has recently come into use on the Heart of Wales Line, painted in South West Trains livery. Presumably it was used by South West Trains previously (and hence ought to feature in the rolling stock section of this article). It was coupled to a 153 in Transport for Wales livery (replacing a train that normally consists of 2 Class 150 coaches). If I see it again I'll see if I can get its TOPS number. FreeFlow99 (talk) 16:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 * SWT never had any 153s. I think you'll find that the picture is of one of the four 153s transferred to TfW from East Midlands Trains. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:13, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks David for clearing up that mystery.  South West Trains and East Midland trains livery is remarkably similar.   I wonder why they chose the same colours and style?  FreeFlow99 (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Your answer is Stagecoach Group. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Cheers David.FreeFlow99 (talk) 10:43, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

 * , could you please add the location to that file. I've added appropriate train categories. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:40, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure whether I've done the right thing, but I've added the station name to the metadata. FreeFlow99 (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:South West Trains