text:
Talk:Theistic evolution/old

I've now archived this page. Please don't add new comments here. Please add them to Talk:Theistic evolution. --G Rutter 18:06, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Why this page has been reinstated from a redirect?
In regards to TE and EC, TE is actually the more commonly accepted term when discussing evolutionists who are also theists (quick Google check on the two phrases will show this). Furthermore, Evolutionary Creationism is itself a biased term that many of us TEs would rather disassociate ourselves from. In most C vs. E discussions, you'll find in the scientific discussions, TEs side with non-theistic evolutionists vs. the rest of the Creationists, so it is very odd to have us grouped on the Creationist side, hence our general dissociation from the Creationist group.

To put it in other words, TEs and other Creationists differ both theologically and scientifically, while TEs and non-TEs only differ theologically for all intents and purposes.

Furthermore, a lot of us feel there is a difference between Creation and CreationISM. Generally, us TEs will probably accept the following statement: We believe in Creation, we reject Creationism, and we accept evolution. If any other TE/ECs feel differently, feel free to respond.

Finally, this whole redirect was done two years ago by the creator of the Evolutionary Creationism article, without adequate discussion, and it was simply taken for granted. I have tried to promote discussion of this on the EC talk page, but no one seems to care, and that is why I have added the content of that article here and removed the redirect.Dracil 06:43, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Some changes from the EC article I made when I moved it over
I added that evolutionary creationism is the less common term, and I removed the Creationism sidebar, as I feel it is POV *unless* TE is put in its own special category separate from the Creationist beliefs. At the very least, it should be placed further away from YEC than ID, as TE is closer to naturalistic evolution than ID is.Dracil 06:43, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

CS Lewis
I agree that Lewis would support the quote about mythology, and a stance against Biblical literalism, but his inclusion on this page makes it seem as though he would support theistic evolution. I'm a pretty serious student of Lewis and I have only come across (a scant few) writings of his that indict evolution as a scientific theory. Linking his name in this context could lead people to believe that he supports theistic evolution, when old-Earth creationism would be a more accurate description of Lewis's beliefs. I think Tolkien is probably along the same lines. David Bergan 18:38, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Theistic Evolution redirect
I added a number of changes, added more examples of theistic evolutionists (Keith Miller, Haught, Polkinghorne, Darrel Falk, Keith Ward, Lamoureux, others). Added quote from John Paul II on "Bible says how to go to heaven not how the heavens go" and quote from St. Augustine. More material on Kenneth R. Miller. Added link to important International Theological Commission statement from July 2004 (signed by Ratzinger before he became Pope). And finally made the entry "Evolutionary Creationism" redirect to Theistic Evolution since they seemed to be the same page, thus redundant. Hope I did everything right as this is my 2nd day editing Wikipedia.

PhilVaz 11:39, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Undo redirect
Theistic evolution is not the same as Evolutionary creationism, and with everyone's permission, I'd like to make a Content fork between the two. I propose to bring out the contrast between two ideas:
 * 1) that God guided evolution, and that this is incomptatible with the usual scientific view; and,
 * 2) that God guided evolution in a way which is compatible with unguided evolution

Please bear with me, as I develop this article, and even join in (!) instead of simply reverting to a redirect. Uncle Ed 18:16, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I think that you probably need to discuss this first on Talk:Evolutionary creationism, as I don't suppose as many people have redirects on their watchlists. I'm against this idea until you can provide references showing that people actually draw a meaningful distinction between the two terms. The previous discussions on this topic have failed to do this. --G Rutter 21:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I did some complex moving around. Apparently there were two different articles, which never got propely merged. Here's the current situation: All this is without prejudice to whether the two terms really represent two distinct concepts.
 * The old history of Theistic evolution moved to Theistic evolution/old
 * Evolutionary creationism redirected to Theistic evolution

If they mean the same thing, at least the more common term is now the redirect target. Uncle Ed 16:55, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Do you have some citations to support your assertion that these two are different ideas? In particular, I ask this because on more than one Wikipedia page it claims they are the same thing. We already have an article on Progressive creationism which may be closer to what you are proposing that your first case is while the current theistic evolution article is the second case. You don't need to content fork, it already exists. --ScienceApologist 16:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, at this point I can't tell if they are the same or not. Which would be better, to have one page (which redirects to the other, as we have now) - or to have two distince pages? Uncle Ed 17:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

It's better to have one page until there is a source for the claim that the two are really about different things. It may very well be that "evolutionary creationism" should be "progressive creationism", but I'm not convinced. As it is, we don't need a third article. --ScienceApologist 18:07, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Re-writing my comment based on what the actual situation is (should've re-read the history of the two articles first) Whoops. Guess the situation's been flipped now. A fork may be ok. Evolutionary creationism *is* used by a few people who wish to place their emphasis of their belief more on the theological side, rather than the scientific side. At least, that's the only reason I've usually seen from people who use the EC term over the TE term and know of the existence of both terms. One nice thing would be that you could move that "Creationism series" sidebar to THAT page, and off of this one, which I don't feel it belongs here. Reason is many TEs would probably agree to this statement "I reject Creationism, I believe in Creation, and I accept evolution," because we usually consider Creationism as being an anti-scientific label, which would directly contradict the whole Theistic Evolution position. Dracil 19:43, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Dracil, would you say that people who apply the "evolutionary creationism" label are referring to Progressive creationism? Because we could just switch over to that. --ScienceApologist 23:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you guys are up to, but I thought we resolved this back in August 2005. I thought it was decided "evolutionary creationism" was going to be the term, to coincide with the forms of creationism box that is included with the article. In my opinion these are all equivalent terms: "theistic evolution" or "God-guided evolution" (most Catholics), "evolutionary creationism" (Lamoureux's term, etc), "fully-gifted creation" (Howard Van Till's term, etc), or "gradual creation" (Darrel Falk's term, etc). All of these accept macroevolution as God's method of creation and have no problem with modern biology. This distinguishes them from both "progressive creationism" or "old-earth creationism" (e.g. Hugh Ross, Phillip E. Johnson, etc) which rejects macroevolution. I prefer the term "theistic evolution" myself to make the distinction clear. PhilVaz 11:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I generally use this page to differentiate between the terms. http://www.natcenscied.org/resources/articles/1593_the_creationevolution_continu_12_7_2000.asp  To an extent, it really is a continuum, and in some areas, it gets very blurry.  Kind of like, how many hairs can you remove before a beard is no longer a beard?  But of progressive creationism and theistic evolution, I would say evolutionary creationism is closer to theistic evolution. Dracil 19:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Under EC of that link, it talks about the differences being in theology, not the science, but doesn't go into details (I'd copy the quote but my browser is not cooperating with the copy/paste.) As for commonality of the term, one measure to check is search for "theistic evolution" (97,800) and "evolutionary creationism" (10,800 pages) on Google. Dracil 19:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Ed, I'm very surprised that you did this "complex moving about" without actually bothering to even try and get a consensus first. Also, you've left things in a bit of a mess, with Talk:Evolutionary creationism still going, while Talk:Theistic evolution redirects to here. Furthermore, as Phil points out, the last time we had this discussion the consensus was reached that the terms evolutionary creationism and theisitc evolution were synonyms. Dracil I think nicely illustrates this by arguing that it's only a difference in empahsis. He also illustrates why some people want to use TE- as they're embarrassed about using the word "creationism" (which is hardly an NPOV situation). We're going to need to cite sources otherwise this is just going to become a mess. For example, the article asserts that TE is used more than EC- can we actually prove that? More importantly, no-one in the above discussion has cited a source that draws any meaningful distinction between TE and EC. --G Rutter 11:54, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I think User:Ed Poor has other things on his mind right now. It may be advisable to simply move the article back to its old namespace. --ScienceApologist 13:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Theistic evolution/old


text:
Talk:Cazi

disambiguation link repair
Im not sure what the transwikification status for this article is. I just fixing the ambiguous link. --Wolfling 10:18, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Cazi


text:
Identity documents in the United States

In the United States, identity documents are typically the regional state-issued driver's license or identity card, while also the Social Security card (or just the Social Security number) and the United States passport card may serve as national identification. The United States passport itself also may serve as identification. There is, however, no official "national identity card" in the United States, in the sense that there is no federal agency with nationwide jurisdiction that directly issues an identity document to all US citizens for mandatory regular use.

There have been proposals to nationalize ID cards, as currently citizens are identified by a patchwork of documents issued by both the federal government as well as individual state and local governments.

It is both a political issue and a practical one, and the idea of federalism is cited as supporting federated (regional) identification. All legislative attempts to create a national identity card have failed due to tenacious opposition from liberal and conservative politicians alike, who regard the national identity card as the mark of a totalitarian society.

The most common national photo identity documents are the passport and passport card, which are issued by the U.S. Department of State to U.S. nationals only upon voluntary application. Issuance of these documents is discretionary - that is, for various reasons, the State Department can refuse an application for a passport or passport card.

More recently, various trusted traveler programs have been opened to the public in the United States, including TSA Precheck, SENTRI, NEXUS, FAST (Free and Secure Trade), and Global Entry. With the exception of TSA Precheck, which provides a unique “Known Traveler Number”, these programs provide photo IDs issued by the Department of Homeland Security and are considered national photo IDs.

The driver's license, which is issued by each individual state, operates as the de facto national identity card due to the ubiquity of driving in the United States. Each state also issues a non-driver state identity card which fulfills the same identification functions as the driver's license, but does not permit the operation of a motor vehicle.

Social Security cards have federal jurisdiction but cannot verify identity. They verify only the match between a given name and a Social Security Number (SSN) and were intended only for use in complying with Social Security payroll tax laws. They now are used in a wider scope of activities, such as for obtaining credit and other regulated financial services in banking and investments.

Birth certificate
The birth certificate is the initial identification document issued to parents shortly after the birth of their child. The birth certificate is typically issued by local governments, usually the city or county where a child is born. It is an important record, often called a "feeder document," because it establishes U.S. citizenship through birthright citizenship, which is then used to obtain, or is the basis for, all other identity documents. By itself, the birth certificate is usually only considered proof of citizenship but not proof of identity, since it is issued without a photograph at birth, containing no identifying features. A birth certificate is normally produced along with proof of identity, such as a driver's license or the testimony of a third party (such as a parent), to establish identity or entitlement to a service.

A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents, or one citizen parent and one non-citizen, also typically has citizenship from birth. Such births are registered with the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. If the embassy or consulate determines the child acquired citizenship at birth, it issues a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, also known as Form FS-240. A birth certificate will also be issued locally in the country where the child was born. The consular report is proof of U.S. citizenship and may be used to obtain a passport for the child and register the child for school, among other purposes.

Social Security card

The Social Security number (SSN) and card are issued by the Social Security Administration. Almost all parents voluntarily apply for a Social Security number shortly after the birth of a child. In the absence of a national identity card (and concordant national identity number), the Social Security number has become the de facto national identifier for a large variety of purposes, both governmental and non-governmental.

The SSN was created to ensure accurate reporting of a worker's wages to the Social Security Administration. Prior to 1986, it was common to apply for a SSN shortly before it might be needed, most often when a teenager. Tax reform acts of 1986, 1988, and 1990 required parents to supply the SSN of children over age 5, 2, or 1 respectively, to receive an income tax deduction for the child. This led to parents applying for their children's SSN at birth.

Because their original purpose was so limited, Social Security cards were not designed with the rigorous security measures typically expected of identity documents. They do not have a photograph or physical description of the bearer, nor are they required to be renewed. Therefore, the Social Security card is not usually considered proof of identity, only proof that the person named on the card holds the number indicated on the card. It is normally used in conjunction with other documents, such as a photo ID, to prove that the person holding the card is legally present in the U.S. and has the right to work in the U.S. (unless the card is marked with a restriction).

Many organizations, universities, and corporations historically used SSNs to uniquely identify their customer or student populations. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974, also known as the Buckley Amendment, required changes that eliminated the use of the SSN as an identifier for a student. Educational institutions now request the SSN at first contact as required by other federal laws and assign their own unique number to each person to maintain the individual's privacy as required. Other laws require the SSN be associated with interest-bearing accounts, interest-paying loans, most public assistance programs, and state-issued identification, e.g. driver's licenses. To reduce the incidence of identity theft, several states have passed laws that require institutions using the SSN to assign their own identifier numbers to individuals, and prohibit them from using the SSN as a primary key.

State-issued driver's license/ID card
A driver's license is issued by each state's DMV, which is required to drive. Each state's DMV can also issue a state identification card. It does not contain any endorsements to operate vehicles and can be used as official identification where asked for or needed.

In addition to verifying driving privileges, drivers' licenses are used to purchase automobile insurance or during a police traffic stop and serve as the primary form of identity for American adults. They are widely used by both government entities and private businesses to verify identity or age, such as in entering secure government facilities, boarding a commercial airliner, business transactions, or in the purchase of age-restricted items such as alcoholic beverages or cigarettes.

Drivers' licenses issued in any state are recognized as valid identity documents in all other states under a variety of legal principles like comity and the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the United States Constitution. However, if a person permanently moves to another state as a resident, state laws usually give a period of time, such as 60 days, in which a person must surrender his out-of-state license for the license of his new home state.

Driver's licenses include a gender marker, typically either "M" or "F". This has been changing in the early 21st century. As of September 2019, at least 14 states and the District of Columbia offer a third, gender-neutral option beyond "male" and "female" to serve people with nonbinary gender identities.

Requirement to carry identification
Although many American adults carry their drivers' licenses at all times when they are outside their homes, there is no legal requirement that they must carry their licenses when not operating a vehicle. However, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada that states are permitted to require people to truthfully state their name when a police officer asks them, and more than half of the states (as well as the District of Columbia) have enacted some variant of stop and identify statutes requiring compliance with such police inquiries. In some states, such as California, failure to produce an identification document upon citation for any traffic infraction (such as riding a bicycle on the wrong side of a street) is sufficient justification for full custodial arrest.

REAL ID Act
Prior to 2005, each state designed its own driver's license according to its own standards. In 2005, the U.S. Congress passed a controversial bill known as the REAL ID Act, which established uniform standards for the design and content of state drivers' licenses and delegated authority to the Department of Homeland Security to implement and regulate compliance with the Act. One of the more-controversial aspects of the Act involves requirements for linking of license and ID card databases.

Passport and passport card
United States passports are issued by the U.S. Department of State. Applications for passports are most often filed at United States Postal Service offices or local county or municipal clerk's offices. For many years, passports were not required for U.S. citizens to re-enter from countries near the United States (including Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and most Caribbean and Central American nations.) In light of this, and given the country's immense size and the great distances which the average citizen lives from an international border, passport possession in the United States had remained relatively low. Indeed, most Americans normally did not obtain passports or carry them regularly unless traveling abroad, and as of 2006, only 60 million (20% of Americans) had passports. As of 2011, approximately 37% of Americans have passports or passport cards.

However, in response to recommendations in the 9/11 Commission Report, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security now requires proof of citizenship for people entering the United States from neighboring countries. This requirement is known as the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, and was implemented in stages:

 * On January 23, 2007, a passport, U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner's Document, or NEXUS card became mandatory when re-entering from those locations when traveling by air, with a few exceptions.
 * On January 31, 2008, officers at land and sea ports of entry stopped taking oral declarations of citizenship from travelers; all individuals entering the U.S. are now required to present documentary proof of identity and citizenship.
 * Beginning July 1, 2009, people entering the United States by land or sea must present a passport, passport card, or other document proving citizenship or permanent resident status.

By law, an unexpired U.S. passport (or passport card) is conclusive proof of U.S. nationality (though not necessarily citizenship) and has the same force and effect as proof of United States nationality as certificates of naturalization or of citizenship, if issued to a U.S. citizen for the full period allowed by law.

Passport card
The main purpose of the U.S. passport card is to provide a more convenient wallet-sized identity and travel document for citizens who want to carry an official federal ID and for those who live near a land border. It can be used for land and sea travel between the United States and Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda but cannot be used for other countries or for international air travel. Other than these travel limitations, the passport card carries the same rights and privileges as the passport book. The passport card is also accepted as valid identification for domestic air travel inside the United States and for domestic use.

When outside the United States and the above-mentioned countries, the passport card can be used as identification and proof of citizenship within a particular country, even though it is not valid for travel internationally (i.e., traveling from Germany to Switzerland/Austria/France/etc.).

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services has indicated that the U.S. passport card may be used in the Employment Eligibility Verification Form (also known as the I-9) process. The passport card is considered a "List A" document that may be presented by newly hired employees during the employment eligibility verification process to show work authorized status. "List A" documents are those used by employees to prove both identity and work authorization when completing the Form I-9.

Department of Defense Identification Card
Members of the military and employees of the Department of Defense receive identity documents based on their status. A Geneva Conventions Identification Card (called a Common Access Card or CAC) is issued to Active Duty and Selected Reserve service members, DOD employees, and some contractors. Adult dependents of service members, retired service members, and members of the inactive ready reserve receive a different kind of military ID that does not contain the smart card cryptographic chip that the Common Access Card has. A DOD identification card number usually matches the holder's Social Security Number. However, on June 1, 2011, the DOD began phasing out use of the SSN to protect service members' identities. It was replaced with a 10-digit DOD ID Number and a 12-digit Benefits ID Number.

Immigration
Immigration and travel documents such as the Green Card or a visa can be used to prove identity and the right to work in the United States (if applicable)

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 added Section 264(e), "Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both." Citing case laws, reliable authors, incl. those at American Jurisprudence, have written that there are probable causes to arrest immigrant who fails to produce the documentation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement unless proven otherwise.

Other identity documents
In the absence of a national identity card, the typical adult in the United States often possesses a large number of documents issued by many different public and private entities to prove their identity.

For citizens who acquire United States citizenship not by virtue of being born in the United States, the federal government issues a Certificate of U.S. Citizenship or Certificate of Naturalization, which are documents that function similarly to a birth certificate. These two documents, along with a U.S. passport, are by law one of the few primary documents for proving U.S. citizenship. These certificates are normally not carried on a day-to-day basis; instead, they are used to procure other documents, such as a passport or driver's license, which are then carried and used as a primary means of identification.

The federal government also issues a variety of other documents and cards which can be used to establish identity. Trusted traveler cards are issued by US Customs and Border Protection to indicate participation in the NEXUS, SENTRI, or Global Entry programs used to facilitate expedited entry through customs. Within the marine trades (and supporting trades thereof), the Transportation Worker Identification Credential provides unescorted access to secured port facilitates.

Federal, state, and local governments and agencies typically issue identification cards for their employees. These cards can be used to prove identity outside of the workplace. Although there are varying degrees of acceptance, government workplace identification is generally seen as more trustworthy than workplace identification from a private company. A notable example is the Department of Defense's Common Access Card, which functions as the military's primary ID card.

There are a variety of secondary documents used to establish identity. However, these documents are typically not accepted as a primary form of identification. They are typically only used to obtain a primary form of identification (usually a driver's license or passport), when other forms of identification have been lost or stolen, or as auxiliary documents in conjunction with a primary form of identification. These other documents include:
 * Access documents issued by private or governmental organizations, such as a press pass or a backstage pass
 * Baptismal certificate
 * City identification card
 * Clinic, doctor or hospital record
 * Credit cards and debit cards
 * Day care or nursery school record
 * Deed for ownership of real estate, which is often used as proof of residence or address.
 * Divorce Decree
 * Health insurance card issued by a private health insurance company, by Medicare, or by a government agency
 * Hunting license
 * Internal identification card issued by one's employer, university, or school
 * Library card
 * License documents issued by government organizations authorizing privileges other than driving, such as an amateur radio license, pilot's license, or concealed firearm permit
 * Marriage certificate
 * Massachusetts Liquor Identification Card (do not have to be a Massachusetts resident)
 * Medical cannabis card
 * Proof of automobile insurance card (when driving), renter's insurance, or homeowner's insurance
 * Proof of professional certification (for members of regulated professions)
 * School record or report card
 * Utility bills, which are often used as proof of residence or address.
 * Voter's registration card
 * W-2 wage and tax statement

Membership ID

 * Loyalty cards issued by private companies (supermarkets, warehouse club stores, etc.)
 * Private associations identification
 * Private clubs (social, athletic, educational, alumni, etc.)
 * Professional organization identification

Native American Indian Documents

 * Certificate of Indian Status (INAC) card
 * Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood
 * I-872 American Indian Card
 * Indian Health Services eligibility/document
 * Tribal enrollment documentation
 * Tribal Membership Card

title: Identity documents in the United States


text:
Talk:Grigory Potemkin

Helbig
Nearly all the anecdotes related of him by Helbig, in the biography contributed by him to the journal Minerva (1797-1800), and freely utilized by later biographers, are absolutely worthless. Well I'm not a historian, but I would assume that it would be necessary to provide some corroboration for such sweeping statements? --rquinn 06:46, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Dealt with substantially better in the new article, I feel. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Secret Husband
There have recently been letters found that prove that Catherine Ii and Potemkin were married. I'll try to find a website that supports this.

 * Simon Sebag Montefiore's biography of Potemkin discusses this. AllenHansen (talk) 02:27, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Discussed in the new article. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

More comments by anon
disagree with this assesment of Potemkin. He was concerned about well-being of his soldiers to the end of his life, and was visibly moved by the masacres that took place, in Ochakov. See Potemkin by Montefiore page 413. He was champion of the Russian and foreigh Jews. They were under his protection during his reign.)

 * He encouraged them to settle in places like Odessa. AllenHansen (talk) 02:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

A note on the spelling of Potëmkin
The Romanization of Потёмкин in this article disregards Wikipedia's own policies on the transliteration of Russian. If I understand correctly, the name should be transliterated as "Potyomkin". If an exception should be made for this proper name, in consideration of the widespread use in existing literature of the form "Potemkin", I would respectfully suggest the placement of a diaeresis on top of the "e", as in "Potëmkin".

 * I agree, up till the insertion of the diaeresis. That would have no meaning to a non-Russian speaker, and would probably be interpreted like a German umlaut, rendering it something like "Patermkin".  Better not to mislead people.  Seems "Potemkin" is predominant in the literature, although "Potyomkin" is occasionally found.  If we are making an exception here on that basis, then the diaresis-free spelling that's actually widely used should prevail.  The pronunciation note (Patyomkin) is effective.  --  JackofOz (talk) 21:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I've changed it to straight off Potemkin, per sources. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Plans for this article
Hey all. I just thought I'd make a note that this article is one of my WP:Wikicup targets for this year. I have, in my possession, the Montefiore biography, which I am first going to go through meticulously to expand the article to a decent length. Montefiore himself regards Potyomkin in a positive light, but his factual analysis seems sound and he often distinguishes between corroborated fact and possible myth. The next stage will be to layer in another book in my possession (a biography of Catherine the Great). After that, I will finish off with what I can glean from Google-Books sources, before putting it through a GA.

That much is certain. In later rounds, when I have more time, it would also be nice to get the article to featured status. But that's a little way off. In the meantime and beyond, any help with the article - if only copyediting and flagging up dubious/misleading sentences - would be much appreciated. Regards and a Happy New Year, - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 12:13, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Nominating for GA. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 19:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Upon reflection, my outstanding concern about this article is subheadings. They identify important elements of his life in general rather than summarizing their contents. There are also no subheadings, which would help.
 * Lfstevens (talk) 16:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Could you elaborate? I certainly wouldn't be opposed to adding some more level-4 headings, but I'm happy with the present level 2s and 3s. - Jarry1250 [Who? Discuss.] 18:44, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

GA nomination
I'm interested in this, though I have a few other things on at the moment. I'll pop back when I have more time, and if it's still untaken, then I'll do the review.  SilkTork  *YES! 01:32, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Got it, SilkTork. Hope you don't mind. Jarry asked me, and I've got the time, today, as it happens. Would love you to comment in the GAR though.  Chzz  ► 14:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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"Megufistu Flank"
I thought this to be an unusual name and when I googled it, all hits came back to Wikipedia. I do not have access to the printed book to which it is sourced, but to me it looks like possible vandalism. It's use can be found in the Courtier and general section. --SVTCobra 21:27, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I have isolated the addition of this alleged flank to this edit from 2018. --SVTCobra 21:42, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It's been a couple of weeks now. Is this page on the watch list of any current editors? --SVTCobra 19:15, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I literally joined wikipedia today because this seemed so odd to me. After doing some digging, I am certain this is vandalism. The source is from a game called Guilty Gear, whose character Potemkin appears to have an ability that makes him should something that sounds like "Megufistu". The subreddit is full of people saying similar things. I feel very confident that this is not a real thing, and am removing the reference. Brauwerij89 (talk) 15:57, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

British among those settled in Russia
I have raised a citation need against allegation (under subsection Builder) that British convicts diverted from Australia were among those Potemkin encouraged to be resettled in the Crimea as I see no reference to this currently in the wikipedia article on penal transportation.Cloptonson (talk) 06:07, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

The Crimea
I would like to replace the references to "The Crimea" with simply "Crimea".

I believe it is considered belittling to refer to a region as "the XXX", as in "the Ukraine" and "the Argentine". It implies that the region is not a political entity, just a geographical place that any true political entity could simply claim as their own.

MrDemeanour (talk) 06:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

 * No objection, so I went ahead.

 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grigory_Potemkin&diff=prev&oldid=1148382629

 * MrDemeanour (talk) 21:07, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Grigory Potemkin


text: Talk:Empty nester

title: Talk:Empty nester


text:
Talk:Tapestries MUCK

Mergability? Or deletion?
I don't know much about Tapestries MUCK besides what is already noted in this article. This seems to be for the most part reiterating the content of the website, though--if this can't be expanded, maybe the article should be deleted or replaced with a redirect to a list of furry role-playing games or something similar, which could include links to web-sites of the various MUCKs, including this one. --Krishva 06:47, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * How about choice 'C' - do nothing. This looks like a fine little stub. -Willmcw 08:05, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * My suggestion was written before I ran over the article to wikify it and clarify the text. Though it's improved, I still think it's not terribly significant; are all online MUD games to be considered notable? FurryMUCK is a fairly widely-heard-of game of a similar variety and was the subject of at least one magazine article in a tech magazine, but Tapestries MUCK, for the most part, is not a recognizable name outside of furry fandom circles.  --Krishva 09:30, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd agree with Willmcw. Tapestries is about 1/3rd the size of FurryMUCK, but it still has a few thousand users.  As a tangent, I wish I could have saved the Vicki Fox page 'fore you helped it get deleted, Krishva...  Almafeta 20:51, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * It's not really the size of the user base that I'm concerned with--I'm aware Tapestries MUCK is a fairly popular MU* in furry fandom. The question is whether it's really notable enough that it needs its own article, or if a link to its web page on a list of such games is enough for those who need to refer to it.  Does the game have any notable characteristics that are worth mentioning, besides being a furry sex game?  There are a few sex MUDs out there, after all, and not all of them should have an article on Wikipedia.  Is this one significant in some way?  Did it do something groundbreaking?  Did someone draw attention to it in a mainstream publication?  That's what I'm looking for.
 * I would also prefer you avoid dragging my other activities on Wikipedia onto Talk pages that don't concern them. --Krishva 02:09, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

 * I would say that Tapestries has lasted long enough and has been of interest to a large enough number of people that it at least deserves a page on Wikipedia, although it is debatable as to how much detail should be here. This sort of debate is exactly why I've set up WikiFur - the Tapestries page there can expand without such concerns about relevance. GreenReaper 02:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, set up Wikifur that gives a FURRY point of view about Tapestries and not a Wiki one. I think that it deserves it's own articile, but I think some of the information contained within could do with an edit. ~ Dan

 * I'm not quite sure what you mean . . . just because we're about the furry fandom doesn't mean it's not a wiki. It just means we have more information on furry fandom topics, which might be deemed non-notable here. GreenReaper 15:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Mucks, especially FurryMUCK and later Tapestries MUCK were really one of the two original key parts of Furry Fandom on the Internet. When you consider that the Internet was key to the sudden growth of the fandom in the 90's, growing from a little nitch at sci-fi cons into it's own genre with about a dozen of it's own conventions, this is a fairly significant thing. It's one of the original internet cultures that really took off. Is that worth a page on something as big as Wikipedia? That's for you guys to figure out, not me. :-p (Please forgive me for not having an account, this is the only page that I have any personal interest in on Wikipedia, so it seemed silly to register one just to edit it.) -- WhiteFire Sondergaard, March 23 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.23.186.34 (talk) 10:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

Other MUCKs?
Is there another MUCK out there like Taps that allows human players? I want to play something human but Taps doesn't allow that sort of thing...--Serow 04:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Try browsing TMC. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 10:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * There are some out there. I have had some experience in this field, but that was ages ago. I dabbled in a MUD that was even wasnt adult related, and was surprised. I used to play Taps too, but got fed up with the lack of support, dead areas and generally lack of friendliness.

 * It's funny though, because I've seen plenty of elves to human-like beings with cat ears and tails on Tapestries..  ~ Dan

Expansion
Tagged this article because I think it could use further expansion, in the wake of the recent AfD. I have no experience with the MUCK itself, but it'd be good if someone who does could add more material to improve the article. This would also make future AfDs less likely. Shimeru 03:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I second that. There's very little info. When did it open? Knowledge of how long a game has been around seems useful.

 * It started in 1991. The trick is proving that to Wikipedia's satisfaction. :-p GreenReaper 23:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Will the head wizard's statement on it's create date satisfy that? :-p It was created shortly after QuartsWest (it's original incarnation) was taken over by root@glia.biostr.washington.edu. -- WhiteFire Sondergaard, March 23rd 2007

After people have whined about this sufficiently on my forums I decided to add some information and do some corrections myself. Let me know if there is more information you would like. I also added a link to the actual wired article that named us one of the better places to get cyber on the internet. -- WhiteFire Sondergaard, March 23rd 2007

 * I'd like to rate this as class C, because the references have improved it a lot, but it could do with being more substantial in its coverage of the MUCK's world. I'm not saying it needs individual coverage of each location, but I think the major themes/topic areas of the MUCK and examples of how they are expressed in the form of roleplaying areas would be welcome. These probably do not need separate referencing as long as their is no question about their accuracy (no questionable facts and no opinions stated). GreenReaper (talk) 02:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tapestries MUCK


text:
Datang Telecom Group

Datang Telecom Group (officially Datang Telecom Technology & Industry Group) is a Chinese state-owned telecommunications equipment group headquartered in Beijing, China. The group was founded in September 1998 by the China Academy of Telecommunications Technology (CATT) and manufactures telecommunications equipment. It is best known for its leading role in developing the Chinese TD-SCDMA 3G mobile telecommunications standard through its subsidiary DT Mobile (formerly known as Datang Mobile). Datang Telecom Group also provides military communications infrastructure to the People's Liberation Army.

History
Datang Telecom Group was the trading name of the China Academy of Telecommunications Technology since September 1998. The academy itself was founded in 1957. In 1998 a limited company Datang Telecom Technology was also incorporated and floated in the Shanghai Stock Exchange on 21 October 1998.

In April 2007, Datang secured a 36.6% share of China Mobile's first large-scale TD-SCDMA network construction contracts.

In March 2012, Datang Telecom agreed to acquire three companies: TD-SCDMA chipmaker Leadcore Technology, handset design and manufacturing company Shanghai Uniscope Technologies, and its subsidiary Qidong Uniscope Electronics; Datang already held a 51 percent stake in Shanghai Uniscope.

Operations
Datang's business areas include high-capacity digital switching, optical networking, data communication, and digital microwave communication equipment and software and system integration services. However, revenue from these sectors is far outweighed by the company's spending on TD-SCDMA research and product development, and in recent years the company has taken out a series of heavy loans from state-owned Chinese banks to fund this development.

In 2012, the United States-China Economic and Security Review Commission released a report alleging connections between Datang and the People's Liberation Army, in particular via Datang's Tenth Research Institute in Xi'an.

Subsidiaries

 * The First Research Institute of Telecommunications Technology (100.0%)
 * Datang Telecom Technology (33.94%)

title: Datang Telecom Group


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The new days

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 08:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The new days
Non-notable band vanity. Kelly Martin 06:48, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete fails wikipedia guidelines. JamesBurns 07:16, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Patent vanity/band ad. --Xcali 14:25, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete band vanity. --Etacar11 22:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
Talk:Ecko Unltd.

POV
This tag was added since the article reads as an ad for the company and its products. Vegaswikian 06:51, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Quite! Still nothing done about it i see??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.64.106.232 (talk) 15:03, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Magazine?
What magazine? This article is completely substandard.

gee eveyone get off my f***ing back...i am the original author of this page (yeh, not just adding a little bit of the article, but original author of the whole page); i made an article about ecko cuz i knew lil somthing bout it and i get all these nasty comments...nect time i just wont even bother makin an article ,,,especially when u type in a word to do a search and there is abslutely NOTHING that comes out because there has been no author to write anything

no one had written a page for ecko...but once i did eveyone as quick as lighting gets on the band wagon to make nasty comments about the article and trash the article;

 * Please run what you wrote through a spell checker. Note the number of grammatical and spelling errors. Realize why you shouldn't write encyclopedia articles unless you're prepared to be corrected. You should be happy - you got your article, and it's immensely better than what you originally wrote. The English language is not that difficult to master, especially since you're an AOL user and therefore it's probably your first language, unlike me. Unigolyn 03:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

G-Unit
What's the point of this trivia?

 * "Spike Lee and Chuck D wore the t-shirts with pride." POV, edited.

 * "G-Unit (short for Guerrilla-Unit and Gangsta-Unit but, in the case of the clothing line, Gorilla-Unit, due to the United States' invasion of Iraq occurring concurrently with the clothing line's inception, and 50 Cent's desire for his clothing to be accessible to the public.)" This is unintelligible and nonsensical; what does the Iraq invasion have to do with gorillas? Removed. Unigolyn

 * http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=4292 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Resistent (talk • contribs) 19:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Marc needs his own article
The article on his company is rather short, and there needs to be one of him.

 * Ya, I agree Marc needs his own page. --GorillazFanAdam 23:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

G-Unit
Guerrilla is another word for war.

 * no its not. WakkaWakkaThdun

 * Well, yeah, to be precise, it is. But the term has sideslipped into other usages (Guerrilla Marketing, etc.) to such an extent that in the sense of utilization here, there really shouldn't be any objection to the term's origin (guerra).  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.211.93 (talk) 06:38, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Ecko vs. Eckō?
Excuse my ignorance of diacritics but is the o-macron used here just for visual effect of the logo or part of the actual company name? I think this should be mentioned somewhere in the article. I also feel that the article title should match the first word in it - whichever is correct. Sparky132

 * Well the naming of the article now appears to have been sorted. I would still like to see a comment on the meaning of the diacritic however. Sparky132 12:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Co-op with nissan
Anyone know about the co-operation with nissan, and if so probably should include that in the article.

Copyright violation
I removed the history section. Most of it was copied from http://nymag.com/fashion/fashionshows/designers/bios/marcecko/ on 17 May 2006. Diet Coke on the rocks 02:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ecko Logo.png
Image:Ecko Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 02:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Has anyone here yet twigged to how this company's omnipresent logo is a lift from the formation marker used by the British 1st Armoured Division during Desert Storm? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.211.93 (talk) 06:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism Corrected
After (re)discovering Marc Ecko from a theme design he's done for i-Google, I looked to Wikipedia for a description of who he is. I also found the article about Eckō, his clothing line. This was when I saw that, at the end of the commercials section, someone had added the apparently anti-Semitic comment, "it is made by jews". I was shocked and outraged, and immediately proceeded to correct the article. I don't know who the poor vandal is, or exactly what he intended to convey. However, I find Judaism to be an admirable and honorable culture from which we gained monotheism, the Ten Commandments, the book of the prophet Isaiah, the Psalms of David, and on and on. Judaism should NEVER be treated that flippantly, and neither I nor anybody else should have to tolerate encountering this kind of egregious disrespect.Entrepreneur68 (talk) 04:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Bankruptcy
Ecko Unltd. never went bankrupt - a former licensee, MEE Apparel LLC, did. If it's collectively decided that adding this information to the Ecko Unltd will improve the project, I believe that the distinction that it was a former licensee must be made. Transatlanick (talk) 15:39, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 26 November 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ecko Unlimited per MOS:TM and WP:NCCORP. (non-admin closure) Bradv  01:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Eckō Unltd. → Ecko Unlimited – MOS:TM Grayfell (talk) 07:56, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:59, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Per WP:COMMONNAME, we have to use "Eckō Unltd." or "Ecko Unltd.", although the latter does not equal the trading name, which includes the diarict. Furthermore, the linked MOS:TM does not discuss diaricts. Lordtobi  ( ✉ )
 * Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:59, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose in print sources it is always Unltd. As for the macron over the o, okay fair enough it's a stylism. However given that there's a small chance of confusion with EKCO the macron increases WP:RECOGNIZABLE and harms no-one. No different from Motörhead. Leave it. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:19, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Support as proposer. I'm okay with keeping Unltd I guess, but this source suggests that it's only used for some labels produced by the company. Reliable sources very rarely actually use the diacritic. Maybe never. None of the four sources currently in the article bother with it, and that includes a press release issued by the company. Their own about section of their website doesn't use it, either. If confusion with EKCO is an issue, the disambiguation template addresses that just fine. This is not as iconic as Motörhead or Spın̈al Tap, this is an inconsistently applied feature of their logo, not their name. Grayfell (talk) 23:33, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I looked further, and I still cannot find a single source which uses the macron. If they are doing business as Eckō, they're not doing very much of it. Grayfell (talk) 23:40, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Support. The current name falls afoul of WP:TM: "Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration, or simply substitute for English words or letters (e.g., "♥" used for "love", "!" used for "i") or for normal punctuation, unless a significant majority of reliable sources that are independent of the subject consistently include the special character in the subject's name." The "ō" in this case is just unpronounced stylization that isn't used differently from the standard English "o", and it isn't consistently used in sources. Abbreviated "Ecko Unltd" would also be acceptable; it's in wide use and is in fact more common than "Unlimited" on Google News ( vs. ), though less so on Google Books ( vs. ).--Cúchullain t/ c 17:49, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * According to this, the company itself is Yakira LLC, doing business as Ecko Unlimited. Ecko Unltd is a brand they use for men's clothing, but not their girls' clothing, which is Eckored. Methinks the article definitely needs to be moved.--Cúchullain t/ c 17:57, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have the link right now, but check the New Jersey Seecretary of State company register, the company can be found there. Please also check for "Yakira LLC", maybe it is a former name? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * On the New Jersey website, it shows up as "Ecko Unlimited, Inc." "Yakira L.L.C.", apparently referring to the same company, also shows up. It would be good to get some clarity, though in any event we don't have any sources directly stating that "Ecko Unltd." (with or without the diacritic) is a name for the entire company, and we have suggestions to the contrary.--Cúchullain t/ c 18:18, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The book you linked really is the only thing that says anything alike what we need to know. Searching for either name directly results in nothing, really, just that Yakira seems to own most trademakrs. The only thing I noted is that Ecko Unlimited, Inc. was founded in 1993 and Yakira, L.L.C. in 1997, but that would be original research at best. Also the book says that "Ecko Unltd." is a division/affiliate of the in-question Yakira, L.L.C.; maybe that one is the original Ecko Unlimited, Inc., d/b/a Ecko Unltd., and Yakira is a head company to organize all Ecko brands into one company; but the information is lacking regardless. Not quite sure how this should be worked out. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 19:04, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, apparently the first iteration of the company's website, from 2003, says that everything is owned by Yakira, d/b/a Ecko Unltd. (abbreviated), however, later iterations of the time where the book linked was written, Marc Ecko Enterprises (Marc Ecko Enterprises Acessories LLC, that is) ownes everything. It does make me believe more that Yakira is just the head company, which apparently had the same name (maybe no longer does), but can we source anything? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 19:15, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
 * According to this, the company was originally "Ecko Unlimited by Marc Echo", so yes, it looks like Yakira was created later as some sort of parent organization. The almanac above says that "Ecko Unltd." is a brand of the company used specifically for the boys and men's clothing. At this point, the line looks blurrier; "Ecko Unltd" is used for other things as well, and is sometimes used for the entire company. However, since sources (and the company) don't use it consistently, and it's not pronounced any differently than "Ecko Unlimited", we should default to what WP:TM recommends. As far as the article body goes, fixing it up is just a matter of finding sources.--Cúchullain t/ c 19:21, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposed merge with Marc Ecko
merge to the firm--no separate notability. This is apparently a coi editor's attempt to get two articles for their client  DGG ( talk ) 05:24, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose a merge considering there's 3 legitimate targets, this company, the video game or Complex (magazine). that's three separate things which i think makes him pass just being notable for the company. The articles been here since 2005 too, that's a pretty dedicated COI editor. GuzzyG (talk) 07:45, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 14 October 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. Jerm (talk) 23:58, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Ecko Unlimited → Ecko Unltd. – WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAME. A prior RM concluded that that the diacritic in "Eckō" should not be used, but with no clear consensus for dropping the "Unltd." in favor of "Unlimited". The short form is the one used by the company everywhere and the one found in pretty much all sources. Lordtobi ( ✉ ) 09:37, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:50, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Or do we go for "Unlimited" and treat "Unltd." as a stylization? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:52, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , that is the present state, but it is not satisfactory. The previous RM happened three years ago, and its focal point was the removal of the diacritic in the name "Ecko". The change of "Unltd." -> "Unlimited" happened as a side effect of the same RM, but most likely in error. The official name and the common name in most reliable sources is "Ecko Unltd.", "Eckō Unltd." is the stylization in the logo, and used in text form in some rare occasions. The sans-diacritic common name with the "Unltd." short form should be used. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 12:39, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Appears to be common, and as mentioned, previous RM indicates "Unltd." as acceptable.Djflem (talk) 09:37, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per COMMONNAME and OFFICIALNAME, although it's a bit of a close call. RSes seem to use both ("Unltd": WSJ, ABC, PC Magazine; "Unlimited": NYTimes, Billboard, Complex). However, search results suggest "Ecko Unltd" is more common than "Ecko Unlimited". That it's the OFFICIALNAME puts me over the edge; we should call our article "Ecko Unltd" (with Ecko Unlimited being a redirect, of course). – Levivich  15:59, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:02, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:Ecko Unltd.


text:
User:HV

Wrong information is always better than no information ('cos with brains and a small amount of diligence you can most often still get the truth) (I sometimes forget to understand that this guy comes from the only country in the world where people need to be told that hot water is hot...)
 * My personal comment on Jimmy Wales: I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some wikipedia editors or users to believe whatever they read anywhere, be it sourced or not. I think a fair number of those people need to be kicked in their ass and at the same time being told that this is some new kind of massage helping them to improve their general mental state, especially training their abilty of reading information always critically by using their own brains before they take it for granted. It is recommended to hand over a written document saying the same thing along with the kick because written information seems to be more trustworthy to them. --HV (talk) 12:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

de:Benutzer:HV

title: User:HV


text:
Sins of the Father

Sins of the Father(s) derives from biblical references primarily in the books Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers to ancestral sin, the sins or iniquities of one generation passing to another.

Print

 * Sins of the Father (Buffy novel), a 1999 novel based on Buffy the Vampire Slayer
 * Sins of the Father (Judge Anderson novel), a 2006 novel based on Anderson: Psi Division
 * The Sins of the Father (Archer novel), 2012
 * The Sins of the Father: A Romance of the South, 1912 novel by Thomas Dixon Jr.
 * Pirates of the Caribbean: Jack Sparrow: Sins of the Father, 2007 novel
 * Sins of the Father, a 1991 novel by William Wright
 * Sins of the Father, a 1994 story arc of the comic book series Starman (vol. 2)
 * The Sins of the Father: Joseph P. Kennedy and the Dynasty He Founded, a 1996 non-fiction book by Ronald Kessler
 * "The Sins of the Father", a story arc of the 1999 comic book Anarky
 * The Sins of the Fathers, alternative title of A New Lease of Death, 1967 novel by Ruth Rendell
 * The Sins of the Fathers, a Matthew Scudder detective novel published in 1976 by Lawrence Block
 * The Sins of Our Fathers, a 1970 analysis of the origins of The Troubles in Northern Ireland by Owen Dudley Edwards
 * The Sins of Our Fathers, a 2022 novella set in The Expanse book series by James S.A. Corey

Film
"Sins of the father" Daredevil Vs. Spider-man (animated PG15 1994 Marvel Disney)
 * Sins of the Fathers (1928 film), an American silent film
 * Sins of the Fathers (1948 film), a Canadian film
 * Sins of the Father (1985 film), a television film starring James Coburn
 * Sins of the Father (2002 film), a television drama by Robert Dornhelm

Television

 * "Sins of the Father", a 2022 episode of Dexter: New Blood
 * "Sins of the Father" (Arrow), a 2016 episode of Arrow
 * "Sins of the Father (Dynasty), a 1989 episode of the prime time soap opera Dynasty
 * "Sins of the Father" (The New Batman Adventures), a 1997 episode of The New Batman Adventures
 * "Sins of the Father" (Star Trek: The Next Generation), a 1990 episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation
 * "Sins of the Father", a 1990 episode of Inspector Morse
 * "The Sins of the Fathers", the story arc of season 3 of episode of Spider-Man: The Animated Series
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2011 episode of NCIS
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2011 episode of Robin Hood
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2018 episode of Shooter
 * "Sins of the Fathers", a 2011 episode of Haven
 * "The Sins of the Father", a 2009 episode of Merlin
 * "The Sins of the Fathers", a 1954 episode of The Motorola Television Hour
 * "The Sins of the Fathers", a subtitle for the 1996 season of the Spider-Man animated TV series
 * "Sins of the Fathers", a 2021 episode of S.W.A.T.
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2019 episode of Yellowstone.

Music

 * "Sins of the Father", a 1992 song by Black Sabbath from Dehumanizer
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2011 song by Riot from Immortal Soul
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2013 song by Akihiro Honda and Ludvig Forssell for the Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain trailer and video game
 * "Sins of the Father", a 2015 song by Being as an Ocean from the self-titled album "Being As An Ocean"

Other

 * Sins of Our Fathers, a 1995 album by Andy Prieboy
 * Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, a 1993 video game by Sierra On-Line

title: Sins of the Father


text:
Skip-Bo

Skip-Bo is a commercial version of the card game Spite and Malice, a derivative of Russian Bank (also known as Crapette or Tunj), which in turn originates from Double Klondike (also called Double Solitaire). In 1967, Minnie Hazel "Skip" Bowman (1915–2001) of Brownfield, Texas, began producing a boxed edition of the game under the name SKIP-BO. In 1980 the game was purchased by International Games, which was subsequently bought by Mattel in 1992. A mobile version of the game for iOS was released by Magmic in September, 2013. There is a new version called "SKIP-BO Mod" that comes in a white and blue case.

Card and deck styles
The deck consists of 162 cards, twelve each of the numbers 1 through 12 and eighteen "SKIP-BO" wild cards which may be played as any number. Alternatively, the 162 cards could be three regular decks of playing cards, including the jokers, with ace to queen corresponding to 1 to 12 and the kings and jokers corresponding to the SKIP-BO cards. Before 1980, the commercial game consisted of four decks of regular playing cards with eight SKIP-BO cards replacing the standard two jokers in each deck. In addition, the aces, twos and threes in the fourth deck were marked SKIP-BO. The remainder of the fourth deck was discarded. The cards come in blue, green, and red.

Play
Two to four people can play at a time as individuals, or, six or more players in teams (no more than three partnerships). The object of the game is to be the first player or team to empty their entire stock pile(s). The player with the middle age goes first. Each player is dealt 30 cards (recommended 10-15 for faster play) for their pile with only the top card visible, and a hand of five cards, and the remaining cards are placed face down to create a common draw pile. The shared play area allows up to four build piles, which must be started using either a "1" card or a Skip-Bo, and each player also has up to four personal discard piles. Each turn the active player draws until they have five cards in hand, though there are cases of not drawing more cards to equal five cards, instead doing a draw of a certain number of cards. They must play either the next card in sequential order or a wild Skip-Bo card, using either cards in hand, the top card of their stock, or the top card of any of their four discard piles. If the player can play all five cards from their hand, they draw five more and continue playing. When no more plays are available, the player discards one card to either an empty discard pile or on top of an existing one and play passes to the next player. When a build pile reaches 12, it is removed from the board and that space becomes empty for another pile to be started; play continues until one player has played their final start card.

Scoring
For single rounds, whoever goes out first is the winner.

If multiple games are going to be played, either track the number of wins for each player or a point system may be used.

For the points scoring, the winning player receives 25 points for winning plus 5 points for each card in his/her opponents' stock piles. The first player to reach 500 points wins.

Partnerships
Another option for game play is to pair up players as partners. Play is the same except:
 * Each partnership has two stock piles and two sets of four discard piles (eight discard piles total) regardless of the number of individuals per partnership.
 * The active player can use their partner's stock and discard piles in addition to their own stock and discard piles.
 * The active player's partner(s) must remain silent.

Digital versions
Various electronic handheld versions of Skip-Bo have been released over the years. A licensed app exists on the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store published by Mattel163.

Reviews

 * Jeux & Stratégie #53

title: Skip-Bo


text:
Talk:IRiver H300 series

Untitled
To do...
 * I think the introduction section needs to be rewritten. Its not a very good intro....
 * It would also be good to get a public domain picture of a H300 into the article
 * Create a section for problems/issues with the player, e.g. the gapless comment?

Also include iHP-100/H100 series info?
Since the H300 series is basicly a H100 series with a color screen, and a usb host, why not make this article about both series? Reub2000 09:00, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * --Anubis1975 11:03, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm more inclined to keep them separate.
 * They are different hardware and the firmware is specific to the H300's. It would make the article too complex to also talk about the H100's.

 * Is there even currently an article on the H100 series? What's so complex about the H100 that it can't go in here?Reub2000 11:45, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * --Anubis1975 21:33, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying the H100 is complex. I'm saying adding it into the H300s page will make the page more complex and less easy to understand. There will be exceptions and deviations all over the place to cater for the H100's differences. A less important point is that the H100's are discontinued, so are less relevant. Yeah, I know the H300's will be discontinued at some point in the future.
 * There is not a H100 page yet, but it is easy to create one. I do not have a H100, so I will leave this task to somebody else.

--Anubis1975 07:51, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) There is now a H100 wiki page. Thanks Reub2000

RockBox?
How is it possible that this article makes no mention of the RockBox open source replacement firmware? I mean, how is that possible?
 * Because you have not added anything to it..? Anubis1975 22:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Have now. ralphb 129.129.152.74 15:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Display of album covers whilst playing tracks

If I recall correctly, support album art requires a patch to be applied to the source code, and is therefore not included in the "current version."

1.30 firmware?
Anubis1975 20:53, 29 January 2006 (UTC) -- Here is a link to the 1.30E firmware. Have a look at the actual filename, not just the heading of the article. http://www.iriver.com/html/support/download/sudw_view.asp?searchProductIdx=42&searchCategoryIdx=&searchString=&page=1&idx=787&tmpSearchProductIdx=&tmpSearchCategoryIdx=&tmpSearchString=

USB Plug Info
Would be useful to include whether H300 series use mini A or B plug.--Lasersharp 18:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Replacement Batteries
Mergy 21 January 2007 -- Batteries in the original units are starting to wear out. The Lenmar replacement battery is item number PMPIRH1. The batteries are supposed to be replaced only by trained technicians. User experience attempting to replace these batteries would be useful to know about.

Dimensions? Weight?
Someone with this information should add it to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stuart Morrow (talk • contribs) 20:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Sorry, I didn't read the article properly, this information is already under == Models == . Stuart Morrow 20:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Photo
Here is a photo I took, which could be used in the article if needed.

Supporting Software
Supporting Software for the iRiver 300's

Software that works very well for converting almost any video to the proper format and specifications for the iRiver 300 series.

Technical guideline specifications are:

Xvid for H300: H320/340: Only supports video with playback time for about one hour 40 minutes.
 * Extension : AVI
 * Video Codec : XviD ( Recommendation : XviD 1.0.2 )
 * Video Resolution : 220 x 176
 * Video Frame : 10fps
 * Video Bit Rate : max 500Kbps ( Recommendation : under 450Kbps )
 * Audio Codec : MPEG 1/2/2.5 Layer3
 * Audio Bit Rate : 128Kbps, 44.1KHz, CBR

This is software from: http://www.nchsoftware.com/software/thanks.html?software=PhotoStage&version=1.12

It is called: Prism Video Converter and is a freeware download. Click on the download link on this page.

Settings should be as follows so as to create an avi file that is video that will play on the iRiver H300's.

Prism Video Editor Open program. Add Files of any video on your computer to the main screen. Click on the convert button on the lower right corner of the screen. This will make videos for the H300's

Output Folder C:\Documents and Settings\(username)\My Documents\My Videos\iRiver (Be sure that this folder exists first)

Output Format .avi

Encoder Options: Mpeg4(native) Video Compressions Settings: average bitrate 2048 kbps Maximum Bitrate: 4096 kbps Sound Compressor: Mp3 (native) Sound Format: 44100Hz 128kbps, stereo

Edit Output (Video Output Options) Check the Resize Video box Check the Shrink or enlarge the video to the selected size box 220 width x 176 height Check Change Framerate to 10.00

You may also find other settings to work as well or even better so please feel free to put your results here on this page at Wiki! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bonyriver340 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

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title: Talk:IRiver H300 series


text:
Motherland Party

Motherland Party may refer to:

 * Motherland Party (Azerbaijan), established 1990
 * Motherland (Latvia), established 2004
 * Motherland Party (Iran), in the 1940s
 * Motherland Party (Moldova), a political party in Moldova
 * Motherland Party (Mongolia), established 1992
 * Motherland Party (Turkey), established 1983
 * Motherland Party (Turkey, 2011), established 2011
 * Motherland (Ukraine), established 2001
 * Rodina (political party), or Motherland-National Patriotic Union, Russia
 * Electoral Bloc Motherland, Moldova
 * Motherland Democratic Coalition, Mongolia

title: Motherland Party


text: Talk:MSFC

title: Talk:MSFC


text:
Idealization (philosophy of science)

In philosophy of science, idealization is the process by which scientific models assume facts about the phenomenon being modeled that are strictly false but make models easier to understand or solve. That is, it is determined whether the phenomenon approximates an "ideal case," then the model is applied to make a prediction based on that ideal case.

If an approximation is accurate, the model will have high predictive power; for example, it is not usually necessary to account for air resistance when determining the acceleration of a falling bowling ball, and doing so would be more complicated. In this case, air resistance is idealized to be zero. Although this is not strictly true, it is a good approximation because its effect is negligible compared to that of gravity.

Idealizations may allow predictions to be made when none otherwise could be. For example, the approximation of air resistance as zero was the only option before the formulation of Stokes' law allowed the calculation of drag forces. Many debates surrounding the usefulness of a particular model are about the appropriateness of different idealizations.

Early use
Galileo used the concept of idealization in order to formulate the law of free fall. Galileo, in his study of bodies in motion, set up experiments that assumed frictionless surfaces and spheres of perfect roundness. The crudity of ordinary objects has the potential to obscure their mathematical essence, and idealization is used to combat this tendency.

The most well-known example of idealization in Galileo's experiments is in his analysis of motion. Galileo predicted that if a perfectly round and smooth ball were rolled along a perfectly smooth horizontal plane, there would be nothing to stop the ball (in fact, it would slide instead of roll, because rolling requires friction). This hypothesis is predicated on the assumption that there is no air resistance.

Mathematics
Geometry involves the process of idealization because it studies ideal entities, forms and figures. Perfect circles, spheres, straight lines and angles are abstractions that help us think about and investigate the world.

Science
An example of the use of idealization in physics is in Boyle's Gas Law: Given any x and any y, if all the molecules in y are perfectly elastic and spherical, possess equal masses and volumes, have negligible size, and exert no forces on one another except during collisions, then if x is a gas and y is a given mass of x which is trapped in a vessel of variable size and the temperature of y is kept constant, then any decrease of the volume of y increases the pressure of y proportionally, and vice versa.

In physics, people will often solve for Newtonian systems without friction. While we know that friction is present in actual systems, solving the model without friction can provide insights to the behavior of actual systems where the force of friction is negligible.

Social science
It has been argued by the "Poznań School" (in Poland) that Karl Marx used idealization in the social sciences (see the works written by Leszek Nowak). Similarly, in economic models individuals are assumed to make maximally rational choices. This assumption, although known to be violated by actual humans, can often lead to insights about the behavior of human populations.

In psychology, idealization refers to a defence mechanism in which a person perceives another to be better (or have more desirable attributes) than would actually be supported by the evidence. This sometimes occurs in child custody conflicts. The child of a single parent frequently may imagine ("idealize") the (ideal) absent parent to have those characteristics of a perfect parent. However, the child may find imagination is favorable to reality. Upon meeting that parent, the child may be happy for a while, but disappointed later when learning that the parent does not actually nurture, support and protect as the former caretaker parent had.

A notable proponent of idealization in both the natural sciences and the social sciences was the economist Milton Friedman. In his view, the standard by which we should assess an empirical theory is the accuracy of the predictions that that theory makes. This amounts to an instrumentalist conception of science, including social science. He also argues against the criticism that we should reject an empirical theory if we find that the assumptions of that theory are not realistic, in the sense of being imperfect descriptions of reality. This criticism is wrongheaded, Friedman claims, because the assumptions of any empirical theory are necessarily unrealistic, since such a theory must abstract from the particular details of each instance of the phenomenon that the theory seeks to explain. This leads him to the conclusion that “[t]ruly important and significant hypotheses will be found to have ‘assumptions’ that are wildly inaccurate descriptive representations of reality, and, in general, the more significant the theory, the more unrealistic the assumptions (in this sense).” Consistently with this, he makes the case for seeing the assumptions of neoclassical positive economics as not importantly different from the idealizations that are employed in natural science, drawing a comparison between treating a falling body as if it were falling in a vacuum and viewing firms as if they were rational actors seeking to maximize expected returns.

Against this instrumentalist conception, which judges empirical theories on the basis of their predictive success, the social theorist Jon Elster has argued that an explanation in the social sciences is more convincing when it ‘opens the black box’ — that is to say, when the explanation specifies a chain of events leading from the independent variable to the dependent variable. The more detailed this chain, argues Elster, the less likely it is that the explanation specifying that chain is neglecting a hidden variable that could account for both the independent variable and the dependent variable. Relatedly, he also contends that social-scientific explanations should be formulated in terms of causal mechanisms, which he defines as “frequently occurring and easily recognizable causal patterns that are triggered under generally unknown conditions or with indeterminate consequences.” All this informs Elster's disagreement with rational-choice theory in general and Friedman in particular. On Elster's analysis, Friedman is right to argue that criticizing the assumptions of an empirical theory as unrealistic is misguided, but he is mistaken to defend on this basis the value of rational-choice theory in social science (especially economics). Elster presents two reasons for why this is the case: first, because rational-choice theory does not illuminate “a mechanism that brings about non-intentionally the same outcome that a superrational agent could have calculated intentionally”, a mechanism “that would simulate rationality”; and second, because rational-choice explanations do not provide precise, pinpoint predictions, comparable to those of quantum mechanics. When a theory can predict outcomes that precisely, then, Elster contends, we have reason to believe that theory is true. Accordingly, Elster wonders whether the as-if assumptions of rational-choice theory help explain any social or political phenomenon.

Science education
In science education, idealized science can be thought of as engaging students in the practices of science and doing so authentically, which means allowing for the messiness of scientific work without needing to be immersed in the complexity of professional science and its esoteric content. This helps the student develop the mindset of a scientist as well as their habits and dispositions. Idealized science is especially important for learning science because of the deeply cognitively and materially distributed nature of modern science, where most science is done by larger groups of scientists. One example is a 2016 gravitational waves paper listing over a thousand authors and more than a hundred science institutions. By simplifying the content, students can engage in all aspects of scientific work and not just add one small piece of the whole project. Idealized Science also helps to dispel the notion that science simply follows a single set scientific method. Instead, idealized science provides a framework for the iterative nature of scientific work, the reliance on critique, and the social aspects that help continually guide the work.

Limits on use
While idealization is used extensively by certain scientific disciplines, it has been rejected by others. For instance, Edmund Husserl recognized the importance of idealization but opposed its application to the study of the mind, holding that mental phenomena do not lend themselves to idealization.

Although idealization is considered one of the essential elements of modern science, it is nonetheless the source of continued controversy in the literature of the philosophy of science. For example, Nancy Cartwright suggested that Galilean idealization presupposes tendencies or capacities in nature and that this allows for generalization beyond what is the ideal case.

There is continued philosophical concern over how Galileo's idealization method assists in the description of the behavior of individuals or objects in the real world. Since the laws created through idealization (such as the ideal gas law) describe only the behavior of ideal bodies, these laws can only be used to predict the behavior of real bodies when a considerable number of factors have been physically eliminated (e.g. through shielding conditions) or ignored. Laws that account for these factors are usually more complicated and in some cases have not yet been developed.

title: Idealization (philosophy of science)


text:
Wikipedia:Wikifun/Round 9/Answers/Question 27

The answer is Juniata, Nebraska.

I used Google's site search, to search wikipedia for "population of 693", which got me 8 results: Union, Connecticut; Clifton, Monroe County, Wisconsin; Cynthiana, Indiana; Iron Mountain Lake, Missouri; White, Georgia; Wikifun; Juniata, Nebraska; Spring Garden-Terra Verde, Texas

Opened the history for all of the pages, and saw they all had been edited by User:Rambot in December 2002, so I looked at the content pages again, and found that only one was a village(Juniata, Nebraska), the others being towns, cities, and a census-designated place.

Compared to the other questions, this one seems easy, so maybe i'm missing something. :p Phelan 07:00, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Correct. -- AllyUnion (talk) 16:46, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Answer
Union, Connecticut, which was edited by Rambot. --Fibonacci 00:19, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


text: File:Tourniquet - Psycho Surgery.jpg

title: File:Tourniquet - Psycho Surgery.jpg


text:
User:Summer Song

I am a male, born in 1979 and from Norway.

title: User:Summer Song