text:
Talk:Tapping

Untitled
I'm going to remove that line about Page - there is no tapping whatsoever in the Heartbreaker solo. It's fret hand pulloffs - 5p2p0 on the G string - Eddie was inspired by this to come up with the idea for tapping when he saw that you could use the fret hand up higher on the D string as sort of a movable nut and then use the picking hand finger to sound the high note. That 5p2p0 becomes t10p7p5 - it's the same notes: C A G. TabsAZ 23 October 2005

This is in conflict with another piece on Jimmy Page, which attributes the first use of the tapping technique to him.

I have another candidate for the "first": Enver Izmailov. Gaidash 1 July 2005 23:24 (UTC)

Jimmie Webster predates Izmailov by a few decades. See Dave Bunker's page on the history of tapping

I think someone should add back the "Portato" technique in two-handed tapping, because by applying this technique the guitarist can increase the ability of controlling dynamics.

Lenny Breau - That no one has mentioned Lenny Breau is shameful. Brprivate (talk) 20:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Hammer-on removed
A hammer-on is not the same thing as two-handed tapping, so I'm removing that.216.249.144.15 18:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Hammer-on involved
Hammer-on should be added back, although it's not same as tapping:

An ordinary tapping consists of hammer-on and pull-off.

For example, 12t8p5 The guitarist should tap(right hand hammer-on) on the 12th fret, and then release (right hand pull-off) to the 8th fret, while the left hand finger should plant on the 8th fret before releasing the 12fret.

For the 2-hand tapping (which is totally another matter to ordinary tapping approach), the guitarist can tap (right hand hammer-on) the note, and sustain it; meanwhile, left hand can be playing the bass melody/accompaniment.

In short, hammer-on is one of the components that build up the tapping technique, so I think it should be added back.

Two handed arpeggio
should the term two handed arpeggio be included somewhere in the artical? as it is an accepted term for the technique in many musical circles, and sometimes more acurately discribes the what is being played.--Anthraxrulz 05:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Crowley Tapping Reference Removed
Neither solo (middle or ending) involve tapping. Parts of each contain left hand hammer on/pull off alternated with picking, but that is an entirely different thing. The beginning arpegio section of the exiting solo is all picked. For confirmation, there is video footage available on the net of Randy playing this song. - Celtic Katie

Makeshift capo
Another technique that should be included here is the use of either hand as a sort of capo, placing a finger (or fingers, to create more complex tapping licks) accross the fretboard, using the available hand to tap out runs or licks (or whatever you want to call them). This technique is useful in changing key mid-performance seemlessly, or in just creating more complex tapping leads and solos. Input? ---Kyle

One-Handed given much more detail
Alright, so I decided to go into a lot of detail about the One-Handed technique. I just felt there wasn't anywhere near as much practical and technical information contained there, like for instance in the Sweep Picking article. Maybe I went a biiiit overboard, but you can never have too much information, right..? ;)

Confusion over "tapping" and "right-hand hammer ons/pull offs"
What is mostly being discussed here and explained as "tapping" (and doesn't seem to be clear) is really the technique of right handed hammer ons and pull offs used in tandem with left handed hammer ons and pull offs. I'll refer to this technique as "right-handed hammer ons" for simplicity. A perfect example of this on Van Halen's first album is in the solo "Eruption" where "most" of the technique being used there is "right-handed hammer ons". I used the word "most" above in reference to "Eruption" because arguably, the last two notes of the piece sound like "tapping" (not sure) where he then allows the guitar/amp to go into feedback and then uses his digital delay to drop the pitch (like a dive bar but it's not). Tapping is different. Tapping is taking any note, anywhere on the fretboard, and quickly tapping your finger twelve frets above that note. For example, fret the first string with your index on the fifth fret (A). Now, move up 12 frets to the 17th fret and, using your index finger, merely "tap" the string. Like tapping your finger on a table. You get a combination of both the note and the harmonic associated with the remaining length of the string. Eddie starts putting more tapping in their second album and then by their "Mean Street" album, he's gone completely bonker tapping happy. Check it out. Some of you that have a classical guitar background may think that he's fretting a note with his left hand (for right-handed guitarists), and then moving his right hand up 12 frets to do a regular harmonic. An example of this would be to place your left hand index finger on the first string fifth fret (making an A). Then put your right hand index finger directly over the 17th fret (12 frets up) and pick the string with either your middle finger or usually your ring finger. Instead of getting an "E" harmonic on the 12th fret, you get an "A" harmonic five frets up. This is not what Eddie is doing! He is "tapping" like I explained above. The current Wikipedia definition of "Tapping" is incorrect. If you don't believe me, just ask "Eddie".

67.187.174.15 23:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC) Steve

Audio samples
Hi. On fr: we've added two audio samples which may be interesting: jd 15:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * commons:Guitare tapping.ogg (distorsion)
 * commons:Clean tapping sample.ogg (clean)

Van Halen
Shouldn't there be some mention of Eddie in the two handed tapping section? He obviously didnt invent it but many think he did and he did some amazing stuff with it

One Handed Tapping Question
Hey people, the article you've made is great. But I have a doubt about the "one handed tapping" section. ¿Does really exist "one handed tapping" as a technique that involves both hands?

I mean, I think one handed tapping is a way of playing the fret only with one hand (usually left hand, you can use the right hand, but it is less usual), like Jason Becker does on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVynmM7fDZs

Or even in the intro of this AC/DC's video, Thundestruck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNvV00-hWRA

When the technique uses both hands to play, then I think it's allways two handed tapping. What I mean is, even the EVH technique was two handed, but in a very basic form, using just one finger tapping mixed with left hand legato, all in the same string, in order to make a "cascade-like sound" effect.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong. Please, let me know your opinion. :-)

 * That was my thought too on reading this page -- I've never heard the "Eruption" technique described as "one-handed tapping". As you say, on its face it's just incorrect. Perhaps there's a usage out there I'm not familiar with, though. Ornetto (talk) 15:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * In what way is "one-handed tapping" different from a simple hammer-on? Weeb Dingle (talk) 06:41, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Two hand tapping above the fretboard
I can't find info on the Internet anywhere about the technique in which both hands are on the same side above the fretboard. I know in the "Through The Fire and Flames" video Totman and Li each use this technique.

 * Please clarify how a guitar is played with both hands "above the fretboard." Weeb Dingle (talk) 06:42, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

 * like how normal playing is with your hand under the neck they mean tapping with your hand above the neck to tap on the lower strings more easily. Imagine_offline (talk) 11:44, 10 August 2020 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.203.65.90 (talk)

History
There is no mention of Celedonio Romero in this article at all but if you listen to his "Fantasia" from Suite Andalucia you can hear this. There are also films of Pepe and Angel playing and tapping on classical guitar - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ciir5unOJo.

It's an area that should be explored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.179.180.116 (talk) 17:46, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm surprised there is no mention of Angus Young from AC/DC. In the 1976 recording of "Dirty Deeds", the solo clearly uses finger tapping of a similar technique that Eddie Van Halen uses just two years later with Eruption. He's working up the scale just as EVH does. I think it's fair to say AC/DC are a fairly influential band and this record pre-dates Van Halen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.226.61 (talk) 07:46, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Seems like the term 'tapping' is used in many different contexts. I note the disambiguation page which exists. Would it make sense for the disambiguation page to have the title 'tapping' and for this to be tapping (guitar) or something similar? Hugh Mason (talk) 15:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Having re-read the article and this Talk page, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm getting the impression it wouldn't help much. Seems as though fanboys would rather insist that their personal Guitar God "does that too!!" rather than pause to figure out what's actually being discussed.
 * No mention of Fred Frith? Shame!
 * Here's how I see it: If everyone does it, then it's not notable, therefore the entire article should be deleted.
 * For example, I might have to cut Some guitarists may choose to tap using the sharp edge of their pick instead of fingers... and everything else pasted in here that runs off in that direction. FWIW — speaking as a guitarist, I'll say that occasionally whacking the high-E string with the edge of the pick IS NOT AT ALL like actual both-hands fretting as employed by DeArmond or Chapman or Jordan.
 * Paganini was more showman than virtuoso. Smeck too was primarily a showman. The History section is more appropriately Precedents.
 * That One-handed tapping section is a decent-enough instructional bit about hammer/pull playing (WP:NOHOWTO), but totally lacking citation, therefore opinion, therefore would have no place in a WP article — fix it or cut it. The next section is almost as bad, because it BEGINS by implying that a pulloff is somehow inherent to tap-style playing, which is entirely untrue. Both inflict pedagogical terms (again, WP:NOHOWTO) to obfuscate the lack of understanding. I'm pretty certain that Tapped harmonics section is nonsense, and certainly doesn't recognize pinch harmonic technique.
 * Also, let's reduce some of the fanboy ravings, such as repeated intrusion of Saint Eddy (I count 13 apppearances of the surname). Anyone who wants specifics can head to the bios. Besides, Guthrie Govan plays better AND faster AND does so without breaking a sweat... Weeb Dingle (talk) 07:43, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Wow, did you just talk about people fanboying and than say "Besides, Guthrie Govan plays better AND faster AND does so without breaking a sweat...", don't you feel the hypocrisy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C0:CA01:DDE0:20CA:A82E:D515:42B8 (talk) 19:11, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Removed tabs
I removed the tabs as they disrupt the flow of the article were instructional and therefore violated WP:NOHOWTO.-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 17:45, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit
Repgrased this part: "Tapping is used exclusively by some players (...)"; it is ambiguous, seems that only such players use this technique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.19.160.73 (talk) 12:37, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

necessary reduction of raving & redundancy
Let me note again: Saint Eddie has his own WP article, and THAT is the proper place for lauding his many talents.

On to specifics. Let's begin with Although secretive about this technique before the release of his band's 1978 eponymous debut album Van Halen... which is utter barking nonsense. The man certainly demonstrated his percussive technique BEFORE the album's release, and likely often between their 1972 founding and their radio-play breakthrough. In any case, proving it was a close-held secret is — barring some sort of verifiable paperwork for trademark or patent or whatever -- likely impossible. At best, any such claim needs attribution to remain.

I will also be reducing the Chapman comments — again, Emmett Chapman and Chapman Stick offer plenty of room (some might say "far too much") for detail.

Does anyone actually CARE when/where so-and-so heard such-and-such exhibit some tapping method? If so, then maybe group this stuff together and make it non-boring. Weeb Dingle (talk) 18:24, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to chop the History section, beginning with unsourced fanboy claims about who tapped when. Predictably, most of the claims demonstrate an inability to differentiate occasional use of hammer-on and pull-off (and the pick-tap gimmick) from actual two-handed tap-style technique, therefore really do not belong at all in Tapping except as a counterpoint "this is what we're NOT talking about" manner. Anyone who wishes to restore this nonsense had better point to some knowledgable source (preferably an actual guitarist) who can definitively identify tap-style performances. Weeb Dingle (talk) 18:43, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

not sure van halen popularised it
Frank Zappa was guitar tapping on live TV, in front of 20-30 million audiences, in the mid 70s. I saw him on one of the major talk shows doing it in 1975 as I recall

Brian May/Eddie Van Halen
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/brian-may-eddie-van-halen-star-fleet-2023/ (specifically the end) Is this reliable/notable/relevant? Mapsax (talk) 02:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tapping


text:
Cello Concerto No. 1 (Saint-Saëns)

Camille Saint-Saëns composed his Cello Concerto No. 1 in A minor, Op. 33, in 1872, when he was 37 years old. He wrote this work for the French cellist, viola da gamba player and instrument maker Auguste Tolbecque. Tolbecque was part of a distinguished family of musicians closely associated with the Société des Concerts du Conservatoire, France's leading concert society. The concerto was first performed on January 19, 1873, at the Paris Conservatoire concert with Tolbecque as soloist. This was considered a mark of Saint-Saëns' growing acceptance by the French musical establishment.

Sir Donald Francis Tovey later wrote "Here, for once, is a violoncello concerto in which the solo instrument displays every register without the slightest difficulty in penetrating the orchestra." Many composers, including Shostakovich and Rachmaninoff, considered this concerto to be the greatest of all cello concertos. Yo-Yo Ma's recording of five "Great Cello Concertos" includes Dvořák's, Elgar's, Haydn's 2nd, Saint-Saëns' first, and Schumann's.

Structure and overview
Saint-Saëns broke with convention in writing the concerto. Instead of using the normal three-movement concerto form, he structured the piece in one continuous movement. This single movement contains three distinct sections. Those sections, tightly structured, share interrelated ideas. Saint-Saëns' contact with Franz Liszt while serving as organist at the Église de la Madeleine may have led him to use cyclic form in his orchestral works.

Along with the solo cello, the concerto is scored for an orchestra consisting of 2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 horns, 2 trumpets, timpani and strings.

The work can be split into three different sections as follows:
 * 1) Allegro non troppo
 * The concerto begins unusually. Instead of the traditional orchestral introduction, the piece begins with one short chord from the orchestra. The cello follows, stating the main motif. Soon, countermelodies flow from both the orchestra and soloist, at times the two playfully "calling and answering" each other.
 * 1) Allegretto con moto
 * This turbulent opening movement leads into a brief but highly original minuet, in which the strings are muted, and which contains a cello cadenza.
 * 1) Tempo primo
 * A restatement of the opening material from the first movement opens the finale. Saint-Saëns introduces two new themes but also includes the recapitulation of the fourth theme from the first movement, tying the whole design together. After a final restatement of the opening theme, he concludes by introducing an entirely new idea for the cello.

Saint-Saëns very often uses the solo cello here as a declamatory instrument. This keeps the soloist in the dramatic and musical foreground, the orchestra offering a shimmering backdrop. The music is tremendously demanding for soloists, especially in the fast third section. This difficulty has not stopped the concerto from becoming a favourite of the great virtuoso cellists.

 * 1st movement, 1st theme (A minor)

 * 1st movement, 2nd theme

 * 1st movement, 3rd theme

 * 1st movement, 4th theme (piano reduction, F major)

 * 2nd movement theme (B♭ major)

 * 3rd movement, 1st theme (A minor)

 * 3rd movement, 2nd theme (F major)

 * 3rd movement, 3rd theme (A major)

Recordings

 * Mstislav Rostropovich, Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent. Recorded 1955. SACD Praga 2013. Diapason d'or
 * André Navarra, Orchestre de L'Association des Concerts Lamoureux, conducted by Charles Munch. CD Erato 1965
 * Christine Walevska, Orchestre Philharmonique de Monte-Carlo, conducted by Eliahu Inbal. Recorded 11/1973. CD Philips 1974
 * Mstislav Rostropovich, London Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini. CD EMI 1978
 * Matt Haimovitz, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, conducted by James Levine. CD DG 1989
 * Jacqueline du Pré, Philadelphia Orchestra, conducted by Daniel Barenboim. Emi 1971 report CD Teldec 1991
 * Maria Kliegel, Bournemouth Sinfonietta, conducted by Jean-François Monnard. CD Naxos 1995
 * Torleif Thedéen, Tapiola Sinfonietta, conducted by Jean-Jacques Kantorow. CD Bis Records 1998
 * Jeremy Findlay (Cello) and Jose Maria Florencio Junior (Poznan Philharmonic Orchestra). CD DUX 2003
 * Piovano Luigi, Orchestra del Teatro Marrucino, conducted by Piero Bellugi, (Integral cello work)), 2 CD Eloquens 2011
 * Gautier Capuçon, Orchestre philharmonique de Radio France, conducted by Lionel Bringuier. CD Erato 2013
 * Natalie Clein, BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra conducted by Andrew Manze (with Saint-Saëns' Concerto No. 2 and other works), Hyperion CDA68002 2014
 * Truls Mørk, Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Neeme Järvi . CD Chandos 2016

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cello Concerto No. 1 (Saint-Saëns)


text:
Wigwag (magazine)

Wigwag was an American magazine published from 1988 until 1991.

Founded by Alexander "Lex" Kaplen, who worked at The New Yorker, Wigwag eschewed celebrity coverage in favor of personal and literary writing. A test issue was put on newsstands in the summer of 1988, and the magazine formally debuted in October 1989. The magazine attracted writers such as Peter Matthiessen, Terry McMillan, Garry Wills, Alex Heard, Sousa Jamba and Nancy Franklin, but despite a circulation of 120,000, and despite being financially successful, ceased publication when the Gulf War broke out in 1991 and the economy entered a recession. It published its last issue in February 1991. In its brief lifetime it reached a circulation of close to 200,000 and became a brand name signifying family-feeling and an appreciation of the qualities of non-metropolitan America.

The legend of Wigwag's founding by a group of young exiles from The New Yorker – an exodus which followed The New Yorker's acquisition by Conde Nast and Conde Nast's subsequent dismissal of The New Yorker's longtime editor William Shawn – attracted an enormous amount of attention to its launch and early publication. Once launched, it quickly became a success d'estime, and critics often called it the "Anti-Spy" – in reference to the funny, cruel and cynical New York magazine of that name. Many saw the two magazines as rivals for media attention – neither survived the 1991 recession (although Spy lingered on in a brief afterlife). Contemporary observers thought that the "parent ship," The New Yorker itself, then edited by Robert Gottlieb, also saw itself as threatened by Wigwag during Wigwag's lifetime. Wigwag proposed a kind of counter-reality to the sophistication which magazines like The New Yorker and Spy aspired to – offering, instead of The New Yorker's famed "Talk of the Town" section, its own titled opening section, "Letters from Home."

Notable staffers at Wigwag include Nancy Holyoke, who went on (with the help of Harriet Brown, another Wigwag editor, now a professor at the S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications) to found American Girl magazine at Pleasant Company in Wisconsin, Caroline Fraser, the author of a noted history of the Christian Science Church, and Evan Cornog, former dean of The Lawrence Herbert School of Communication at Hofstra University. One of the most significant contributors to Wigwag's identity was its art director, the illustrator and designer Paul Davis. Many have observed that Wigwag's editorial and design innovations under Kaplen and Davis were later adopted by Tina Brown and implemented at The New Yorker when she became its editor.

title: Wigwag (magazine)


text:
Talk:UCSD Pascal

This article, and the article UCSD p-system Overlap each other more than just mildly. --Samiam95124 01:14, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Correct wikilink is UCSD p-System. Msnicki (talk) 01:59, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

I have put this in the "Pascal Dialects" catagory, which means that you can find it there with other pascals.--Samiam95124 29 June 2005 02:50 (UTC)

ada <-> pascal
The introduction says: Notable extensions to standard Pascal include separately compilable Units and a String type. Both of these extensions influenced the design of the Ada programming language.

The history section says: UCSD introduced two features that were important improvements on the original Pascal: variable length strings, and "units" of independently compiled code (an idea taken from the then-evolving Ada programming language).

So which one comes first after all? Svofski (talk) 16:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

They both are, to a certain extent. Ada was developed by a number of competing (but not isolated) teams. The UCSD Pascal group had a contract to work with one of the teams, and had a workshop at UCSD where units were discussed. Probably the best summary is that UCSD's work influenced the Ada design, but that the UCSD team was also able to benefit from the ideas being developed in the nascent Ada community.

Wirth was already working on modular programming concepts in the late seventies (Lilith!). I think it is more logical that the UCSD unit concept was based on Modula2 and the ISO Pascal standarization effort.

In 30 years of pascal I never saw a reference of Pascal borrowing from the Ada in the early days, and this article is not providing one etiher, so I assume this is revisionism.

However nowadays e.g. Free Pascal does look at ADA to see how general concepts can be done in Wirthian style. Comparisons are often made on the maillists. 88.159.64.210 (talk) 17:25, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Incorrectly Redirected here
The main article has been made the object of redirection for people seeking information on P-Code. P-Code is also known as "pseudo-code" and does not necessarily mean Pascal Code. People have been writing pseudo-code, ever since they figured out ways of representing (and interpreting) bytes and words with things that don't actually mean anything in any given programming language.

Somebody should fix the redirect so that people trying to look up "Pseudo-Code" (a way of implementing theoretical or "virtual" microprocessors) won't be redirected to this page. 216.99.219.27 (talk) 02:05, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

p-code is not a short for "pseudo code". The term you are looking for is bytecode, not pseudo-code and p-code was one of the earliest examples of that. Pseudo code is something totally different in the algorithmic notational department. 88.159.64.210 (talk) 17:25, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

"System"

 * UCSD Pascal was a Pascal programming language system

What constitutes this system? Just the OS and the programming language, or additionally a complete toolchain? --Abdull (talk) 10:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Toolchain more or less. So implementation of the language (compiler/interpreter/vm) + libraries. The division of toolchain into many programs is something a bit Unix-centric though. Most non-unix toolchains are at least partially integrated.

88.159.64.210 (talk) 17:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

 * Most pre-PC toolchains were either a REPL (like APL or Lisp) or multi-pass with separate programs like UNIX. Even on PCs early professional toolchains were multi-pass (eg, C80/L80 for Microsoft's C compiler on CP/M). -- Resuna (talk) 14:13, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Apple ][
When I bought an Apple ][ in 1980, I also bought the UCSD p-system. (I used its text editor until I bought a PC in the late 80s.) It came with Pascal, and you could purchase a version of FORTRAN, which Apple touted. I wrote an FFT in FORTRAN, but it was slow. I don't know how many p-systems Apple sold, but I'm reasonably certain it was a substantial number. The article should mention this. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 23:51, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

On the Apple II the compiler displayed a pattern of broken lines corresponding in some way to the structure of the program, gradually growing from the top of the screen, until the compilation was complete.

There was a somewhat famous cartoon at the time, captioned "Daddy's playing Pascal. That's where you try and see how many dots you can get before it beeps and you say nasty words."

Given how sparse the page is, perhaps there's some room for a mention? -- Resuna (talk) 14:09, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

 * When I was at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1982-84, we had a Corvus Constellation with several dozen Apple ][ on which we undergrads learned UCSD Pascal as our first programming language. Over a dozen newer languages later, I'm still grateful for the way UCSD naturally steered me into writing clean code from first attempt. Keep it simple, keep it easily legible to the next human who has to modify it, and the after-the-fact unit testers will rarely have anything to complain about.  My thanks to the creators of the system, and to whomever purchased it for UNC-CH. 204.116.50.98 (talk) 16:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Versions
Does anyone have the release date for each version? 108.202.33.17 (talk) 18:48, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a collection of release notes for software. --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:47, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:UCSD Pascal


text: User talk:70.18.222.239

title: User talk:70.18.222.239


text:
Talk:Red Deer, Alberta

'Red Deer/Lethbridge is Alberta's third largest city' yet again.
This is a mess. Editors have been going back and forth on this and changing parts of lines without ensuring that everything is consistent. Refs in the article give us: Not in the article as far as I know is the AB government's 2019 population report https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/daab9fce-c2f6-49d1-a433-375b2b7aee24/resource/61cd908d-e2b9-4837-939b-533848d723b9/download/2019_mapl_web.pdf. The population numbers are the same as in the cited media reports for the 2019 municipal census. So, per the 2016 federal or municipal census, Red Deer was larger. Per the 2019 municipal census Lethbrrdge was larger.
 * 1) https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/hlt-fst/pd-pl/Table.cfm?Lang=Eng&T=302&SR=1&S=86&O=A&RPP=9999&PR=48 putting 2016 ederal census population at 100,416 vs Lethbridge at 92,729.
 * 2) https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/hlt-fst/pd-pl/Table.cfm?Lang=Eng&T=801&SR=1&S=3&O=D&RPP=100&PR=48&CMA=0#tPopDwell putting 2016 Federal census population at 99,718 cs Lethbridge at 87,572 (I don't know why these Stats Can sources disagree).
 * 3) https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/daab9fce-c2f6-49d1-a433-375b2b7aee24/resource/66766b31-22fd-4365-af52-3d185cb52ea2/download/2016-municipal-affairs-population-list.pdf 2016 Municipal census population at 99,832 vs Lethbridge at 96,828
 * 4) https://reddeer.ca/whats-happening/news-room/red-deer-is-home-to-101002-residents.html and https://lethbridgeherald.com/news/lethbridge-news/2019/06/24/lethbridge-passes-historic-population-mark-of-100000/ local news reports of 2019 municipal census putting population at 101,002 vs Lethbridge at  101,482 (now third largest city).

I'm simply going to rewrite the lead lead to say that Red Deer was the third largest Alberta city as of the 2016 Federal census, but that it had fallen to fourth largest (after Lethbridge) as of the 2019 municipal census. Meters (talk) 04:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

 * I've noticed the same and I don't really sweat this. For insight on what is truly going on here, review this tweet and expand it to review the full thread. In all truthfulness, Red Deer is and continues to be the third largest city in Alberta and will continue to do so only when Lethbridge surpasses Red Deer again in a federal census, or when Lethbridge stops counting its non-permanent student residents. Perhaps simply remove mention of each city's population rank in the leads of both articles. Hwy43 (talk) 04:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

 * I've just copyedited your revision for even greater accuracy, but honestly I'd like to see ", and Alberta's third most populous city, after Calgary and Edmonton.[3] According to 2019 municipal censuses Red Deer's population had been slightly surpassed by that of Lethbridge, making Red Deer the fourth largest city by population in the province" simply struck, leaving it to simply read as "With a recorded population of 100,418 in the Canada 2016 census, Red Deer became the third Alberta city to surpass 100,000 people."
 * Then, at Lethbridge, re-write the lead to say "With a recorded population of 101,482 in it 2019 municipal census, Lethbridge became the fourth Alberta city to surpass 100,000 people." Both leads are factually correct, and no ranks in either – done! Hwy43 (talk) 04:28, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yup. No problems if you want to change what I wrote. I'm just tired of seeing the back and forth and was trying to put up a compromise that would satisfy both sides..Basically, we have two large cities (Calgary, followed by Edmonton) in the one million range, and then Red Deer and Lethbridge in a virtual tie at about 100 thousand.each. I think we're seeing community boosterism. Meters (talk) 04:39, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * We are seeing boosterism. I will implement and post a notice on Talk:Lethbridge. Hwy43 (talk) 04:48, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Meters (talk) 04:54, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

"Forth, Alberta" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Forth, Alberta and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 14 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 16:45, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Red Deer, Alberta


text:
Watuppa Branch

The Watuppa Branch (also called the North Dartmouth Industrial Track, and formerly the Fall River Branch) is a roughly six-mile freight railroad line in southeastern Massachusetts. The track originates at Mount Pleasant Junction, where it diverges from the New Bedford Secondary, and runs through Dartmouth before terminating in north Westport. The line is owned by the Massachusetts Department of Transportation and is operated by Massachusetts Coastal Railroad, which purchased operating rights from the previous operator, Bay Colony Railroad, in late 2023. The abandoned western portion of the right-of-way is used by the Quequechan River Rail Trail.

Route
The Watuppa Branch originates in New Bedford, where it diverges from the New Bedford Secondary and passes beneath Massachusetts Route 140. After traveling through the western portion of downtown New Bedford, the railroad crosses into Dartmouth and travels just north of downtown, passing through the "Dartmouth Business Park II" before crossing into Westport. After crossing the border, the track passes beneath Interstate 195 and continues for just over a mile, until passing beneath Massachusetts Route 88, at which point active trackage ends and only abandoned, disused track remains. The disused track continues for another short distance until it terminates near Watuppa Ponds, at which point the Quequechan River Rail Trail eventually takes over where the track formerly laid.

History
The Fall River Railroad was chartered in 1874 and opened in 1875 from the New Bedford Railroad at New Bedford to Fall River through the towns of Dartmouth and Westport. The line was built to provide rail access to the mills in the eastern part of Fall River along the Quequechan River valley. The western terminus of the line was Watuppa station at Plymouth Avenue near Front Street. In 1882, the line was leased to the Old Colony Railroad for 99 years; it was sold outright to the Old Colony in 1896. The track between Westport and Fall River was eventually removed; the current track ends shortly after the Massachusetts Route 88 crossing in the town of Westport.

Beginning in 1982, Bay Colony Railroad took over all freight operations on the line. While most of Bay Colony's operations were subsequently taken over by Massachusetts Coastal Railroad in 2007, the Watuppa Branch remained under the operation of Bay Colony. In November 2023, the Massachusetts Coastal indicated it would be purchasing the line and taking over operations. Operations under Massachusetts Coastal began later that year.

In 2008, the first section of the Quequechan Rail Trail opened over a portion of the former Fall River Railroad right-of-way along the shore of South Watuppa Pond east of Brayton Avenue at a cost of $462,000. It was later extended west to Britland Park and Rodman Street. State funding was awarded in 2022 for a 550 feet extension east to the Westport town line.

title: Watuppa Branch


text:
Talk:Chat room

"Graphical multi-user environments" section
lots of errors and it does not make sense... I would have fixed it but was not sure what it is supposed to be communicating precisely Ann Vole (talk) 11:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

What is a Chat Room, and how does it differentiate from other IM applications?
Article says "Recently much chat room and instant messaging technology has begun to merge as the dominance of the big three instant messaging providers (AOL, Yahoo and MSN) have tied chat rooms directly into their instant messaging interfaces.". But what *is* the difference between Chat Rooms and IM? An encyclopedic article shoud define it. In both pages emphasis is given on the difference with forums and with e-mail, but not to distinguish one from the other. Diego Moya 12:14, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Does anyone have a history of how chat rooms were first created?

 * It's a big debate in many places I've been to, some people saying that chat rooms were made for people to misspell intentionally, or generally be lazy.

 * It would be very nice to have a sort of history on them, but I have no Googling skills at all, and so I can't seem to find any information... But I have a nagging feeling that one who thinks chat rooms were made for the lazy is dead wrong.

 * A big thanks to anyone who can dig up stuff on the history of chat rooms.--Kenjoki 01:16, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

---

I would also like to see more information about the varieties of, and differences between, chat software, especially for the webmaster. Natcolley 07:05, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

---
 * Article says: A chat room is an online forum where people and purves and paedophiles can chat online. WTF???
 * That was vandalism. Already solved. My first revert!!

I think chatroom (or chat room) is a general non-technical term, popularised by the media. Technical folk tend to say exactly what they mean: IRC, Instant Messaging, Web forum, Usenet News, or whatever. Not sure how to phrase that though. - Paul 21:48, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

---

A chat room is an umbrella term for any system where the norm is for people to converse as a group - it's people chatting in a (virtual) room. Instant messaging is typically a one-to-one system; you can get IM software that will also allow you to add people to a conversation and talk between more than 2 people, but it's geared up for small and private rather than more public group conversations. --82.70.156.254 (talk) 01:36, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

UNIX and IRC
The article erroneously remarks that IRC was part of a standard UNIX build. This is incorrect. While most IRC servers and their early clients were primarily written on and for UNIX systems, neither were included in any standard UNIX distribution. I've removed this part of the article. -- Shinmawa 21:29, 20 December 2005 (UTC) hello. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.178.65.238 (talk) 13:52, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Random chat
I think it would be interesting to tell something about random chat (chat to unknown random people). ICQ has made an option to random chat  but it's not very popular , whereas there are some other attempts ... This kind of chat is a way to avoid buddy list chat. What is your opinion ? --Serenity-Fr 00:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Graffiti on the page...???
This is my first Wikipedia comment, so please forgive me if I fail on netiquette.

I noticed two apparent bugs on this page which appear to be some kind of "Graffiti" Part way down, "Smelly Poopers" appears in line with the text under one of the sections.

Some time later, it appeared to have disappeared. Maybe just a glitch, but it seems unlikely to be random. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.130.202.123 (talk) 23:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

someone vandalised two sections, reverted them back to original 136.206.1.17 11:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

 * It happens a lot here. No need to discuss it, just go ahead and remove the vandalism.  You might also want to notify the vandal with the appropriate warning.  There may be enough vandalism to request semiprotection Requests_for_page_protection. --Ronz 16:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

List of Chat room software!?
On (2007-03-01T05:31:00) 190.49.150.84 added phpMyChat GPL/GNU opensource phpMyChat Project to the External Links. It doesn't fit the other links as they all talk about chatrooms, not implement them. One would have to make a fair list of software, which I guess already takes place in online chat and in web chat site. The latter seems more fitting. --lynX 22:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Etymology?
when was this first used? did "chat room" come before or after IRC "channel"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pete Iriarte (talk • contribs)

This comment needs to go
"Chat rooms are a alternative (not always postitive) to real life acitivites!" I'm getting rid of that one. If anybody has any objections, post them here. DancingWithTheStarsGuy (talk) 17:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Common knowledge
Now come on, who put the post that citations are needed? Some things are common knowledge, something as simple as a chat room does not require the citations that other subjects do. Like it would be ridicules to need a citation when stating that the Titanic was a ship or George Washington was a president.

Chat Rooms and Cyber Sex
From reading the 'activities' section you'd get the impression that 99% of all chat rooms are only there for cyber sex and swapping nude photos (cited from the Daily Mail)! I've reordered and neatened it up a bit; moving 'sex' and 'games' into subsections. If anyone can think of any other good examples of things that could go into the 'activities' section (live online debates with famous people, perhaps?) it could do with a bit more padding. --82.70.156.254 (talk) 01:36, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! People are of the opinion that Wikipedia should be here to scare parents and their children into thinking the internet is out to get them. - BalthCat (talk) 10:26, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

a mess.
tags need working in process. --71.173.75.231 (talk) 01:01, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://searchsoa.techtarget.com/definition/chat-room. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. NortyNort (Holla) 10:38, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Graffiti walls
I was surprised to see that we have no article (or even mention) of graffiti walls, which preceded the generation of more interactive web-based mediums like Yahoo! Chat in the mid-1990s. —  C M B J  09:59, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chat room


text:
Richard Martin Stern

Richard Martin Stern (March 17, 1915, in Fresno, California – October 31, 2001, in Santa Fe, New Mexico) was an American novelist. Stern began his writing career in the 1950s with mystery tales of private investigators, winning a 1959 Edgar Award for Best First Novel, for The Bright Road to Fear.

He was most notable for his 1973 novel The Tower, in which a fire engulfs a new metal-and-glass frame skyrise. Stern was inspired to write the novel by the construction of the World Trade Center in New York City. Warner Brothers bought the rights to the novel shortly after its publication for roughly $400,000, and Stern's book, in combination with the novel The Glass Inferno by Thomas N. Scortia and Frank M. Robinson, was the basis for the movie The Towering Inferno, produced by Irwin Allen and directed by John Guillermin and featuring an all-star cast. The film, shot with a $14 million budget, earned more than $100 million at the American box office.

Stern was known mainly for his mysteries and disaster-related suspense. He died on October 31, 2001, after prolonged illness. He was 86.

title: Richard Martin Stern


text:
Cape Cod Central Railroad

The Cape Cod Central Railroad is a heritage railroad located on Cape Cod, Massachusetts. It operates on a rail line known as the Cape Main Line which is owned by Massachusetts Department of Transportation. The line was previously owned and operated by the Cape Cod Railroad, the Old Colony Railroad, and later the New Haven Railroad, each of which operated passenger trains on the line from 1854 to 1959. Although its namesake is the former Cape Cod Central Railroad (1861–1868), the two companies are unrelated.

Services
Founded in 1999, it operates a variety of excursion trains from downtown Hyannis to the Cape Cod Canal during spring, summer, and fall. Recently, it has expanded service in a limited capacity to offer rides that travel the reverse of the normal route. It also offers special trains that travel to Wareham. Most of their trips are made during the Scallop Festival or during the summer when the Family Supper Train and Scenic Train depart together from Buzzards Bay. It offers daily sightseeing trains known as the Shoreline Excursion, a Family Supper train, Brunch and Lunch trains, and an Elegant Dinner train that was rated one of the top three in the nation by the Food Network. Past offerings have also included special Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas trains.

On November 21, 2009, the railroad ran dinner service on the Falmouth Line via North Falmouth.

This Railroad should not be confused with, although is affiliated with, the Massachusetts Coastal Railroad - the freight railroad that transports trash off of the Cape. Since 2006, the Cape Cod Central Railroad has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Cape Rail Inc., which also owns and operates the Massachusetts Coastal Railroad. In October 2012, Chicago-based Iowa Pacific Holdings acquired control of Cape Rail Inc., and its subsidiaries, Massachusetts Coastal Railroad, LLC and Cape Cod Central Railroad.

Station list
Despite the four stations above all being served by the Cape Cod Central Railroad, most trains do not visit or even pass by all four stations. Trains typically either depart from Buzzards Bay station and turn around upon reaching Cape Cod Bay (usually near either Sandwich or Barnstable), or depart from Hyannis, stop at West Barnstable (on Saturdays), and turn around upon reaching Sagamore. There are some exceptions, as some trains departing from Hyannis travel all the way to Buzzards Bay and sometimes all the way into Rochester, but these trains usually do not stop at any stations after departure.

Despite not having formal stations, select trains also stop at the Pairpoint Glass facility in Sagamore, and select dinner trains also depart from Falmouth.

title: Cape Cod Central Railroad


text:
Cape Cod Railroad

The Cape Cod Railroad (also currently referred to as the Cape Main Line) is a railroad in southeastern Massachusetts, running from Pilgrim Junction in Middleborough across the Cape Cod Canal Railroad Bridge, where it splits towards Hyannis in one direction and Falmouth in the other. It was incorporated in 1846 as the Cape Cod Branch Railroad to provide a rail link from the Fall River Railroad line in Middleborough to Cape Cod.

Cape Cod Branch Railroad, 1846–1853
Among the proponents of the Cape Cod Branch Railroad were Col. Richard Borden of Fall River, who saw the new line as an opportunity to bring more traffic and business through his hometown. He was at one time president of the Bay State Steamboat Company, which together with the Old Colony Railroad formed the noted "Fall River Line". He was later elected president of the Cape Cod Railroad.

On January 26, 1848, the first 14.7 mi segment of the railroad was opened between Middleborough and Wareham. By May 1848 an additional 12.9 mi was opened to Sandwich, enabling unimpeded transit between Boston and Sandwich, thus serving the needs of the Boston & Sandwich Glass Company. In 1853, the extension of the line to Hyannis was started, reaching West Barnstable on December 22, 1853.

Cape Cod Railroad, 1854–1872
On February 22, 1854, the Cape Cod Branch Railroad was renamed the Cape Cod Railroad Company. In the spring of 1854, construction continued, with the railroad reaching Barnstable village May 8, Yarmouth Port May 19, and finally Hyannis on July 8, 1854. Connecting steamboat service to Nantucket commenced from Hyannis in late September and would continue until 1872.

Acquisitions
In 1868, the Cape Cod Railroad acquired the Cape Cod Central Railroad (1861–1868), which had opened a line from Yarmouth to Orleans in 1865.

In 1871, the Cape Cod Railroad bought the Plymouth and Vineyard Sound Railroad – which had been incorporated in 1861 as the Vineyard Sound Railroad Company intending to build a line from Buzzards Bay to Woods Hole. However, the road to Woods Hole was not completed until July 17, 1872, after the merger with the Cape Cod Railroad. Upon completion of that road, the steamboat service to Nantucket moved to Woods Hole.

Old Colony Railroad, 1872–1893
By this time, the Cape Cod Railroad had merged with the Old Colony and Newport Railway to form a new company, renamed the Old Colony Railroad. The Cape Cod routes became known as the "Cape Cod Division" of the Old Colony Railroad, with its headquarters in Hyannis. The merger was completed on September 30, 1872.The Woods Hole Branch opened on July 17, 1872.

With much fanfare, the Old Colony Railroad completed the line to Provincetown in July 1873. Old Colony Railroad maintained all rail operations on the Cape until their closure in 1893.

New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad, 1893–1964
After Old Colony Railroad closed in 1893, the entire network was leased by New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad, which took over operations on the Cape Cod Railroad. The NYNH&H ended daily passenger service to southeastern Massachusetts and the Cape in 1959. The railroad did, however, restore the popular seasonal rail service from New York City to Hyannis, with connections from Boston, during the 1960 through 1964 summer seasons.

The New Haven's passenger service to Cape Cod was operated under a number of different names, including and Day Cape Codder, the Night Cape Codder, the Neptune, the Islander, and the Flying Dude.

Amtrak, Bay Colony, and Cape Cod & Hyannis, 1980s–1990s
Following New York, New Haven and Hartford permanently terminating Cape operations in 1964, the Cape lacked any regular passenger rail service for almost twenty years. In 1984, the Cape Cod and Hyannis Railroad began providing seasonal service between Braintree and Hyannis, until their closure in 1988. In 1986, Amtrak began operating the Cape Codder during summer weekends from New York City to Hyannis, until it was terminated in 1996. The cancellation of the Cape Codder marked the end of non-heritage passenger rail between the Cape and the mainland for almost twenty more years.

From 1989 to 1999, Bay Colony Railroad operated seasonal heritage railroad excursions from Hyannis to Sagamore under the Cape Cod Railroad brand, until these services were taken over by Cape Cod Central Railroad in 1999. Bay Colony was also the sole operator of freight rail on the Cape from 1987 to 2007, until their contract expired and service was taken over by Massachusetts Coastal Railroad.

Present era
Throughout the 20th century, most of the railroad tracks on the outer Cape were removed, with many being replaced with rail trails. Today, the only railroad tracks on the Cape exist on the upper Cape. Shortly after crossing the Cape Cod Canal Railroad Bridge, the track splits in two directions, with one direction heading towards Falmouth and the other heading towards Hyannis. The Falmouth line is currently used for freight and heritage passenger service, while the Hyannis line is used for regular freight and passenger services.

Passenger service
The Cape Cod Central Railroad continues to operate seasonal tourist excursions, departing from Hyannis and Buzzards Bay and occasionally including stops at West Barnstable and Sandwich. A limited number of trains also depart from North Falmouth, which marks the only passenger service along the Falmouth spur of track.

Ever since the Old Colony Lines were restored for public service in the late 1990s, there have been several efforts made to extend commuter rail service from Middleborough/Lakeville station to Buzzards Bay. As of 2020, the MBTA is conducting a study to evaluate the feasibility of implementing such service in conjunction with the currently-underway South Coast Rail project. While regular commuter service has not yet been implemented, the seasonal passenger train CapeFLYER began operating from Boston to Hyannis in 2013, as a collaborative effort between Cape Cod Regional Transit Authority and Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. In addition to serving select stops along the regular commuter rail lines, the CapeFLYER also makes stops in Wareham, Buzzards Bay, Bourne, and Hyannis

Freight
In 2007, the contract for Cape freight rail was awarded to Massachusetts Coastal Railroad, which currently continues to manage all freight rail on the line today. The most common operation is the "energy train", which hauls refuse from the Upper Cape Regional Transfer Station in Falmouth and the Yarmouth-Barnstable Regional Transfer Station in Yarmouth, to the Southeastern Massachusetts Resource Recovery Facility, a waste-to-energy plant in Rochester. Other regular operations include interchanging with CSX in Middleborough and transporting material for the ongoing South Coast Rail project. Massachusetts Coastal Railroad is owned by the same parent company as Cape Cod Central Railroad.

Mass Coastal has been in conflict with proponents of a new rail trail that wish to replace the line between Bourne and Camp Edwards with a new branch of the Shining Sea Bikeway. This would eliminate rail service to the transfer station within Camp Edwards. The railroad is advocating for a rails with trails instead.

title: Cape Cod Railroad


text: User talk:70.92.30.127

title: User talk:70.92.30.127


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Michael Doroquez

Errr, am I the only one who gets a message saying this page is Protected for some reason? -CunningLinguist 01:19, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nope, I'm not getting that. Most likely a browser issue. -chriskelvie 07:49, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Opto-isolator

Slotted/reflective optocouplers
As I understand it, photointerrupters (transmissive photosensors) and photoreflectors (reflective photosensors) are sometimes referred to as slotted and reflective optocouplers, respectively. They are used to build incremental optical rotary encoders; these, again, are used in ball-type computer mice. However, these things are not what one would usually think of when talking about an optocoupler or optoisolator. Until someone finds the time to explain this properly (sorry, I don't have it right now), the sections referring to these topics are simply confusing. I have therefore removed them from the article and put them here:

 * The classical ball computer mouse is a common application, using infrared emitter LEDs and phototransistors to form optocouplers. The ball of the mouse turns a pair of optical encoder wheels. These wheels periodically block the optocouplers and thereby translate the motion of the mouse into a sequence of pulses. These pulses are then used to record the motion. The principle of operation does not require infrared light, but the infrared sensor is less sensitive to interference from common flickering visible light sources such as fluorescent lamps and CRT displays.

--128.130.60.86 11:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Schematic
This article could use an image of the schematic representation of an opto-isolator to better get the point across.--Hooperbloob 01:20, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How about a circuit? - Omegatron 14:53, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey, that looks great. If some part identifiers are added then we can reference them in the discussion.--Hooperbloob 16:37, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok. I did it right, right?  Output will be high or low depending on switch. - Omegatron 17:43, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * Added some ugly numbers. - Omegatron 14:27, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Merge with Optical isolator
These two articles seem to cover the same thing. -- Bob Mellish 18:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

 * agreed. — Omegatron 15:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Comments
There should be some discussion on analog versus digital isolation. Efadae (talk) 21:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Dead Link
The link to one of the pdf's listed on the bottom of the page is dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.37.244.183 (talk) 10:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The link http://www.radiation-effects.com/pdf/RLAT.pdf is still dead today 11 nov 2009, free to remove

None of these links works .. --174.67.243.57 (talk) 15:54, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Rewrite in progress
I'm doing it user space right now. If you plan to edit the article in the nearest week or two, ping me please. East of Borschov 13:21, 3 November 2010 (UTC) done. East of Borschov 17:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Generic trademark, etc.
Weber's book seems sufficient to claim that Vactrol is used generically today. He writes: "The light dependent resistor, also known as LDR or vactrol, is a device... " Tijfo098 (talk) 18:57, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Expert Needed
What does Both transformers and opto-couplers are effective in breaking ground loops caused by high or noisy return currents in ground wires, and common in industrial and stage equipment. mean? I cannot fix it without knowing what the writer intended.--Anon423 (talk) 19:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * High and noisy electric currents are common in industrial equipment
 * Noisy [but not really high] currents are common in stage equipment
 * Return currents (i.e. currents returning to the power supply through the return wires) cause ground loops.
 * Transformers and opto-couplers can break ground loops, so the noise in return wires stays there and does not disrupt useful audio and video signals. East of Borschov 00:48, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have reworded it to hopefully make it better.--Anon423 (talk) 02:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Does All materials used in opto-isolator packages must have matched thermal expansion properties. refer to just silicone dome designs, or to all opto-isolators? It is unclear from the context.--Anon423 (talk) 19:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, this is precisely the case of awkward paraphrasing of what was a crystal-clear sentence. The source meant that the thermal expansion coefficient of the dark goo must match t.e.c. of clear silicone (applicable only to double-molded silicone domes). Quote: "A dark outer mold compound, with a matched thermal expansion coefficient to the inner-mold compound, is then called an over under double molded design." East of Borschov 00:40, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * p.s. "matched" does not [necessarily] mean "equal" or even "close". East of Borschov 00:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks.--Anon423 (talk) 02:01, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Copy-edit
I have copy-edited the article, but am holding off on removal of the copy edit tag for now until I can get some feedback on my work. I have also added an expert-subject tag for the confusing sections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anon423 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll check diffs one by one - at first sight there's one instance when copyedit changed the intended message to something else. Check the sentence "They feature speeds four times higher, lesser power consumption and lower cost than the fastest contemporary opto-isolators." (last section). Apart from a change of tense (it's a snapshot of 2000 market, past tense) I'm not sure that any product can "feature" low cost. "Low cost" in industry-speak means "low price to wholesale buyers", it's the seller's decision and not a property of a product. East of Borschov 00:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm removing both cleanup tags at the top. Thank you.--Anon423 (talk) 02:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Possible Merge with Solid-state relay
considering the fact that Solid State Relays use Optical isolators, having both articles separate seems redundant (contributor formally known as KB1KOI) 2012-12-03, 18:20 UTC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.19.115.116 (talk) 18:19, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Article name is not compliant to international standard
The International Standard IEC60050 for the naming of electrotechnical components only accepts the names "photocoupler" and "optocoupler". Is there a reason why the article name is non standard? --91.15.67.235 (talk) 09:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 30 April 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus with no prejudice for a new discussion to be started for the "Optoisolator" alternative. (non-admin closure) Steel1943  (talk) 23:08, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Opto-isolator → Optocoupler – Most, if not all, manufacturers refer to these devices as Optocouplers. It is true that some also give opto-isolator as an alternative name. The primary function of the device is to provide signal coupling by optical means. The device has a valuable secondary chartacteristic of providing electrical isolation by a dielectic barrier. Constant314 (talk) 16:17, 30 April 2016 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 06:11, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Oppose, but drop the hyphen -> Optoisolator. The term opto-isolator has given was over the years to optisolator, and the two together are more common than optocoupler (or about equally common in most recent years per n-grams). The isolation function is usually the reason for using this as opposed to a simpler kind of coupling such as a wire. Dicklyon (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Dielectric vs insulator
Are we sure "dielectric" is the right word for the bit in the middle of an optoisolator? A dielectric is an insulator that can be polarised. This is surely not necessary in an opto, it only needs to be an insulator (and transparent!). Are dielectrics used in real-life optos, if they are, why? Is it a necessary property? Couldn't a theoretical opto be built that meets all the specifications, using a non-dielectric insulator? Depending on this, wouldn't "insulator" be a better word? It'd also be advantageous to beginners in electronics, who might not know what a dielectric is. After all, someone experienced in electronics wouldn't need to look up what an opto is!

84.67.73.190 (talk) 05:03, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems to be the jargon used in describing optocouplers. At least one book I have open right now says "dielectric" and "insulator" are synonymous terms.(Electrical Conduction in Solids:An Introduction, Daniel D. Pollock, American Society for Metals, 1985 ISBN 0-87170-203-7, page 241) What insulators cannot be polarized? --Wtshymanski (talk) 06:20, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Opto-isolator


text:
Talk:Wooden roller coaster

Hi, should we add 'Troy' at Toverland theme park in the Netherlands? It's billed as the largest wooden rollercoaster in the 3 Benelux countries... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritchie C (talk • contribs) 10:52, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

New World Record Wooden Coaster
Sorry I'm not a great editor, but I just found this story and thought someone would like to update. http://online.thatsmags.com/post/record-breaking-wooden-roller-coaster-opens-in-eastern-china Springfinger (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:34, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Examples of wooden coasters section
I vote for stopping the addition of further "examples of wooden roller coasters" unless an article already exists for the ride. A majority of the coasters in the list are uncreated articles and the list additions could keep going until all 706+ wooden coasters (according to rcdb.com) in the world are added.... Let's stop adding the wooden coasters unless there's a notable article for the ride already in existence. -- BrandonR July 4, 2005 22:44 (UTC)

What sections, if any, do you all think need to be added to round out this article more?

I added some more technical details about woodies, including some information on side friction and scenic railways. I also added a link to scenic railway pictures from Robb and Elissa Alvey's Europe tour, although the last picture of the page may be questionable. Another option is to create a separate article for scenic railways, or integrate it with the Side friction roller coaster article. If necessary, I could ask Robb if he would allow for his pictures to be posted directly on Wikipedia, provided he is credited. Also, maybe we could add some information about the Intamin pre-fab woodies (Colossos, Balder, El Toro) WillMcC 04:05, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I removed Texas Cyclone as it was demolished. I added Colossus because there was an article for it and it is a racing coaster which is not represented here. iamscottevil 8:34, 15 June 2006 The ride operator of the Zippin Pippin advsed me that Elvis actually rode that Zippin Pippin eight days before he died. When Libertyland was closed, the Zippin Pippin was sold at auction for $2,500.00. The winners of that auction had bought the Zippin Pippin just to buy the rollercoster train that Elvis rode in. The Zippin Pippin had two trains. The last time that I was at Dollywood, sometime around 2005 the Zippin Pippin was only running one train. I am unsure if the winners of that auction ever sold that train. Perhaps one of them will go to WI, and the other to a museum. Dollywood looked into moving the Zippin Pippin to Dollywood, but that the terrn at Dollywood wasd too hilly to relocate the ride there. Dolly Parton' brother Randy Parton tried to move the Zippin Pippin to the now defunct Carolina Crossroads. The Zippin Pippin has now moved to Green Bay, WI. It seems that an entire new track has been built of the Zippin Pippin using the original plans. Although we in TN hate to see the Zippin Pippin leave TN, it could not be going to a more deserving park. The Zippin Pippin re-opens in May 2011.Tnpastor (talk) 23:35, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Article does not cite its references tag
I removed this tag for a few reasons. First of all, there's not much information in the article that probably needs citing as most of it is common sense or general knowledge and history. None of its controversial, and if specific statements DO need to be cited, put the tag on those offending lines...

Otherwise, I think this article is quite sufficient at being rather encyclopedic. --BrandonR 19:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. The article is slanted and full of bias and unverifiable claims. I think lines like "It is commonly considered one of the best wooden roller coasters in the world" definately need to be removed. If there's a magazine that reviews coasters or international prizes awarded, then by all means, include those references, but saying things like "people say" or "it is commonly believed" are weasel words and are generally forbidden by wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.161.212 (talk) 22:57, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposal to move 'examples of wooden coasters' section to new article
The 'examples of wooden roller coasters' section is growing long and out of control... I propose we move it to a new topic called "List of wooden roller coasters" and link to it from this article, and perhaps only list 5-10 truly world-famous wooden roller coasters on this page. That'd clean up the article quite a bit. Any comments? -- BrandonR 16:33, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with removing all but a few notable ones on there. However, I think that a list of wooden roller coasters would never be complete and would open up the way for lots of pointless roller coaster lists. I'll flag this up on the roller coaster WikiProject, so hopefully you'll get a few more comments. :) Sea serpent 85Talk 10:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Just keep a few, like The Beast and other notable ones. 76.240.206.29 20:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I went ahead and trimmed the list down. We already have Category:Wooden roller coasters and if anyone still needs the list, it is still in the article history --WillMcC 18:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think there should be a comprehensive sortable list by drop, speed, length, and maybe year, state/country as a new article. This article should be the history, design, and engineering of. IMHO. I see some missing without thinking and I see two who claim to be the longest in the world. Maybe we can start on a sub page and move to main when ready. --  :- )   Don  00:45, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Physics
I would expect to see a physics section with equations and comparison to steel coasters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.42.34 (talk) 16:11, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

close-up picture of wooden coaster track
I think this article could really benefit with a close-up picture of a wooden coaster track, rather than far-away pictures. I would upload a general one from Google Images, but they're not my own images! EggsInMyPockets (talk) 07:41, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Found a great picture from wikimedia. I have added it to the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by EggsInMyPockets (talk • contribs) 08:41, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

"Advantages" and "Disadvantages" sections?
Whenever an article I find has a comparison between other designs or different methods, or something else, it had both advantages and disadvantages in relation to the other things in separate sections, meaning one section showing the advantages, and another showing disadvantages. In this article, it clumps both advantages and disadvantages into one section (Wooden vs Steel). On top of this, said section isn't a bulleted list like how I've seen advantage and disadvantage sections formatted, and is a little harder to read as a result. EpicTyphlosion (talk) 02:14, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I agree that separating this into two sections, each with bulleted lists, is an improvement. Prose is preferred on Wikipedia. Tables and lists should be used sparingly when it's beneficial, but neither typically replaces what's written in prose. If anything, it complements it. Can you describe exactly what change(s) you're proposing and what other articles you're comparing it to? --GoneIn60 (talk) 05:08, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wooden roller coaster


text:
Walter Conrad Arensberg

Walter Conrad Arensberg (April 4, 1878 – January 29, 1954) was an American art collector, critic and poet. His father was part owner and president of a crucible steel company. He majored in English and philosophy at Harvard University. With his wife Louise (born as Mary Louise Stevens; 1879–1953), he collected art and supported artistic endeavors.

Early life and career
Walter Arensberg was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the oldest child of Conrad Christian Arensberg and his second wife, Flora Belle Covert. Walter's father was President and partial owner of a successful Pittsburgh crucible steel company. Between 1896 and 1900, Walter attended Harvard University. Following graduation, he traveled to Europe, where he spent at least two years. In 1903, he returned to Harvard, as a graduate student. He did not complete his degree, but rather moved to New York City to work as a cub reporter from 1904-1906.

Arensberg's first major book, The Cryptography of Dante (1921) was greeted as a literary scandal because of its deeply Freudian interpretation of the text. A full-page review appeared in The New York Evening Journal with the title "A Shocking Attack on Dante's immortal 'Inferno'." This book was followed by The Cryptography of Shakespeare (1922), which finds acrostics and anagrams in the published works of Shakespeare that reveal the embedded name of Francis Bacon. In The secret grave of Francis Bacon and his mother in the Lichfield chapter house (1923) and The Shakespearean mystery (1928) he used a "key cipher" to find further messages connected with the Rosicrucians. Analysis by William Friedman and Elizebeth Friedman shows that none of the methods has cryptographic validity.

Several volumes of his Symbolist-influenced verse were also published, including 1914's Poems and 1916's Idols. His poem Voyage a l'Infini was anthologized by Edmund Clarence Stedman. His far more adventurous, avant-garde poetry appeared in Dada magazines between 1917 and 1919: Rogue, The Blind Man, 391, TNT.

Art collector
Between 1913 and 1950 the couple collected the works of Modern artists such as Jean Metzinger, Marcel Duchamp, Charles Sheeler, Walter Pach, and Beatrice Wood, as well as Pre-Columbian art; they were assisted by dealer Earl L. Stendahl. The Arensbergs became particularly close with Duchamp, who lived in their apartment during the summer of 1915 while they vacationed at their summer home in Pomfret, Connecticut. They would become the artist's lifelong patrons and form the largest, most significant collection of his work. When Duchamp's idea to dispatch his 1917 work Fountain, an ordinary bathroom urinal signed with the pseudonym "R. Mutt," to the first show of the Society of Independent Artists was rejected, both he and Arensberg felt obliged to resign from the society. The circle of friends and artists frequented the Arensberg Salon in Manhattan has been represented in a visual reconstruction Chez Arensbergs by the French painter André Raffray (1925-2010), created upon a commission by the New York art dealer and dada specialist Francis M. Naumann, who also actively participated in the creative process.

California years
In 1921, for health and financial reasons and upon Louise's insistence, the couple relocated to Hollywood, California. While the move was originally intended to be temporary, the Arensbergs remained in California for the rest of their lives, returning to New York for only a year between 1925 and 1926. They first lived in Residence A, a guest house designed by Frank Lloyd Wright on Olive Hill, a property owned by Aline Barnsdall. for a time. In September 1927, the Arensbergs purchased their permanent home on 7065 Hillside Avenue, an example of Mediterranean Revival architecture built in 1920 for Lee B. Memefee and designed by architect William Lee Woollett; they later commissioned architect Richard Neutra to build an addition to house Constantin Brâncuși's bronze version of L'Oiseau dans l'espace (1924). In 1946, Max Ernst and Dorothea Tanning were married at the home in a double wedding with Juliet Browner and Man Ray. Walter served as a board member of the Los Angeles Art Association (1937), Los Angeles County Museum of Art (1938–1939), and the Southwest Museum (1944–1954). In addition, he was a founding board member of the short-lived American Arts in Action (1943) and the Modern Institute of Art, Beverly Hills (1947–1949), organizations dedicated to showing modern art in California.

Francis Bacon Foundation
Intrigued with writer Francis Bacon, particularly the aspects of alchemy, cryptography, Rosicrucianism, and, inevitably, the Shakespeare-Bacon debate, the Arensbergs researched his work. In 1937 they established the Francis Bacon Foundation in Los Angeles intending to promote "research in history, philosophy, science, literature, and art, with special reference to the life and works of Francis Bacon" and in 1954 endowed it with funds and their collection of Baconiana. The Foundation's library was housed in its own small brick building at the Claremont Colleges beginning in 1960. In the intervening years, the collection grew from its original 3,500 volumes to over 16,000 volumes. With the failing health of the collection's longtime librarian and curator, Elizabeth Wrigley, the Foundation decided to transfer it to the Huntington Library in San Marino. The collection is now known as the Francis Bacon Foundation Arensberg Collection.

Legacy
In the 1940s the Arensbergs began to look for a permanent home for their collection. In 1941, a group around actors Vincent Price, Edward G. Robinson, Fanny Brice, and Sam Jaffe tried to get the collection to stay on the West Coast, for the Modern Institute of Art in Beverly Hills. In 1944, the Arensbergs signed a deed of gift with the University of California, Los Angeles, which included the stipulation that the University build an appropriate museum to house the collection in a specified time frame; their friend and fellow collector Galka Scheyer subsequently signed a similar agreement. By the fall of 1947 it was obvious that this condition would not be met and the contract was nullified. In 1939, the Los Angeles County Museum of Art's board turned down a gift of avant-garde works from the collection.

The Arensbergs then began negotiations with numerous other institutions, including the Art Institute of Chicago, the Denver Art Museum, Harvard University, the Honolulu Academy of Arts, the Instituto Nacional de Bellas Artes (Mexico, D.F.), the National Gallery, the Philadelphia Museum of Art, the San Francisco Museum of Art, Stanford University, the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of Minnesota. The Arensbergs eventually dropped their demand that the recipient of the collection also provide for the continuance of the Francis Bacon Foundation. After protracted discussions and many visits from Director Fiske Kimball and his wife Marie, the Arensbergs presented their collection of over 1000 objects, including correspondence, ephemera, clippings, writings, personal and art collection records, and photographs documenting the couple's art collecting activities as well as their friendship with many important artists, writers and scholars, to the Philadelphia Museum of Art on December 27, 1950.

In 1949, Daniel Catton Rich and Katherine Kuh organized the first public exhibition of the Arensberg collection, held at the Art Institute of Chicago in 1949. For the exhibition Making Mischief: Dada Invades New York in 1996, the Whitney Museum of American Art partially recreated the interior of the Manhattan apartment of the Arensbergs.

'Hollywood Arensberg', by Mark Nelson, William H. Sherman, and Ellen Hoobler, provides a room-by-room, wall-by-wall, and object-by-object reconstruction of the couple’s Los Angeles home and art collection. Published by the Getty Research Institute in 2020, the book provides detailed context for the Arensbergs’ massive accumulation of modern and pre-Columbian art as well as Renaissance books and manuscripts. It recovers the intellectual world of a collector obsessed with chess and devoted to Baconian research, and sheds significant light on the couple's relationships with Marcel Duchamp, Beatrice Wood, Earl Stendahl, Robert Woods Bliss, Marius de Zayas, Walter Pach, William Friedman, and others.

title: Walter Conrad Arensberg


text:
Mesonychia

Mesonychia ("middle claws") is an extinct taxon of small- to large-sized carnivorous ungulates related to artiodactyls. Mesonychians first appeared in the early Paleocene, went into a sharp decline at the end of the Eocene, and died out entirely when the last genus, Mongolestes, became extinct in the early Oligocene. In Asia, the record of their history suggests they grew gradually larger and more predatory over time, then shifted to scavenging and bone-crushing lifestyles before the group became extinct.

Mesonychians probably originated in China, where the most primitive mesonychian, Yantanglestes, is known from the early Paleocene. They were also most diverse in Asia, where they occur in all major Paleocene faunas. Since other predators, such as creodonts and Carnivora, were either rare or absent in these animal communities, mesonychians most likely dominated the large predator niche in the Paleocene of eastern Asia.

One genus, Dissacus, had successfully spread to Europe and North America by the early Paleocene. Dissacus was a jackal-sized predator that has been found all over the Northern Hemisphere, but species of a closely related or identical genus, Ankalagon, from the early to middle Paleocene of New Mexico, were far larger, growing to the size of a bear. A later genus, Pachyaena, entered North America by the earliest Eocene, where it evolved into species that were at least as large. Mesonychians in North America were by far the largest predatory mammals during the early Paleocene to middle Eocene.

Characteristics

Mesonychians have often been reconstructed as resembling wolves albeit superficially, but they would have appeared very different in life. With a short lower spine stiffened by revolute joints, they would have run with stiff backs like modern ungulates rather than bounding or loping with flexible spines like modern carnivorans. While later mesonychians evolved a suite of limb adaptations for running similar to those in both wolves and deer, their legs remained comparatively thick. They would have resembled no group of living animals. Early mesonychians probably walked on the flats of their feet (plantigrade), while later ones walked on their toes (digitigrade). These later mesonychians had hooves, one on each toe, with four toes on each foot. The foot was compressed for efficient running with the axis between the third and fourth toes (paraxonic); it would have looked something like a hoofed paw.

Mesonychians varied in size; some species were as small as a fox, others as large as a horse. Some members of the group are known only from skulls and jaws, or have fragmentary postcranial remains. But where skeletons are known, they indicate that mesonychians had large heads with strong jaw muscles, relatively long necks, and robust bodies with robust limbs that could run effectively but not rotate the hand or reach out to the side. An unrelated early group of mammalian predators, the creodonts, also had unusually large heads and limbs that traded flexibility for efficiency in running; large head size may be connected to inability to use the feet and claws to help catch and process food, as many modern carnivorans do. Some mesonychians are reconstructed as predatory (comparable to canids), others as scavengers or carnivore-scavengers with bone-crushing adaptations to their teeth (comparable to the large hyenas), and some as omnivorous (comparable to pigs, humans, or black bears). They may not have included hypercarnivores (comparable to felids); their teeth were not as effective at cutting meat as later groups of large mammalian predators. In some localities, multiple species or genera coexisted in different ecological niches. There is evidence to suggest that some genera were sexually dimorphic. Some genera may need revision to clarify the actual number of species or remove ambiguity about genera (such as Dissacus and Ankalagon).

These "wolves on hooves" were probably one of the more important predator groups in the late Paleocene and Eocene ecosystems of Europe (which was an archipelago at the time), Asia (which was an island continent), and North America. Mesonychian dentition consisted of molars modified to generate vertical shear, thin blade-like lower molars, and carnassial notches, but no true carnassials. The molars were laterally compressed and often blunt, and were probably used for shearing meat or crushing bones. The largest species are considered to have been scavengers. Many species are suspected of being fish-eaters, though some of these reconstructions may be influenced by earlier theories that the group was ancestral to cetaceans.

Phylogeny and evolutionary relationships
Mesonychians were long considered to be creodonts, but have now been removed from that order and placed in three families (Mesonychidae, Hapalodectidae, and Triisodontidae), either within their own order, Mesonychia, or within the order Condylarthra as part of the cohort or superorder Laurasiatheria. Nearly all mesonychians are, on average, larger than most of the Paleocene and Eocene creodonts and miacoid carnivorans.

The order is sometimes referred to by its older name Acreodi.

A recent study found mesonychians to be basal euungulates most closely related to the "arctocyonids" Mimotricentes, Deuterogonodon and Chriacus. "Triisodontidae" may be paraphyletic.

Relationship with whales
Mesonychians possess unusual triangular molar teeth that are similar to those of Cetacea (whales and dolphins), especially those of the archaeocetes, as well as having similar skull anatomies and other morphologic traits. For this reason, scientists had long believed that mesonychians were the direct ancestor of Cetacea, but the discovery of well-preserved hind limbs of archaic cetaceans, as well as more recent phylogenetic analyses  now indicate cetaceans are more closely related to hippopotamids and other artiodactyls than they are to mesonychians, and this result is consistent with many molecular studies. The similarity in dentition and skull may be the result of primitive ungulate structures in related groups independently evolving to meet similar needs as predators; some researchers have suggested that the absence of a first toe and a reduced metatarsal are basal features (synapomorphies) indicating that mesonychians, perissodactyls, and artiodactyls are sister groups.

Most paleontologists now doubt that whales are descended from mesonychians, and instead suggest mesonychians are descended from basal ungulates, and that cetaceans are descended from advanced ungulates (Artiodactyla), either deriving from, or sharing a common ancestor with, anthracotheres (the semiaquatic ancestors of hippos). However, the close grouping of whales with hippopotami in cladistic analyses only surfaces following the deletion of Andrewsarchus, which has often been included within the mesonychians. One possible conclusion is that Andrewsarchus has been incorrectly classified. The current uncertainty may, in part, reflect the fragmentary nature of the remains of some crucial fossil taxa, such as Andrewsarchus.

title: Mesonychia


text:
Sabre (comics)

Sabre is the title of a creator-owned American graphic novel, first published in August 1978. Created by writer Don McGregor and artist Paul Gulacy, it was published by Eclipse Enterprises, later known as Eclipse Comics. It was one of the first American graphic novels, and the first to be distributed solely in comic book shops via the direct market. The story is a science fiction swashbuckler in which the self-consciously romantic rebel Sabre and his companion Melissa Siren fight the mercenary Blackstar Blood and others to achieve freedom and strike a blow for individuality.

Following the success of the graphic novel, an ongoing series continuing the story was published by Eclipse between 1982 and 1985.

Creation
Writer Don McGregor had received considerable acclaim with two Marvel Comics strips in the 1970s, "Killraven, Warrior of the Worlds" (in Amazing Adventures) and "The Black Panther" in Jungle Action. However, neither book was a strong seller and both would end up cancelled, leaving McGregor both without work and - due to the series both being work-for-hire - no means of completing his planned stories. He was also frustrated by Marvel's uneasiness with long plot arcs, and that he was only paid page rate for his work for the company, with no royalties. Thus McGregor began exploring work he would retain the rights to, and pitched a story called Dagger to Mad Genius, a small studio ran by Marvel alumni Jim Salicrup, Steve Gerber and Dave Kraft, as part of a planned anthology of creator-owned stories. The basic concept of the character came to McGregor when watching Errol Flynn movie Captain Blood on television.

After changing the name to Sabre - which fit the swashbuckling theme he was aiming for - he linked up with artist Paul Gulacy, who had found success on Marvel's The Deadly Hands of Kung Fu and was looking to do something new. He began design work on the character, drawing on Jimi Hendrix and Clint Eastwood's The Man With No Name character for inspiration, also using issues of Soldier of Fortune for reference. McGregor meanwhile was keen to explore story ideas that were frowned upon by Marvel editorial policy at the time, including an interracial relationship between the black Sabre and the white Melissa Siren, and homosexual characters.

Gulacy's art caught the eye of McGregor's friend Dean Mullaney at a gathering at McGregor's apartment. Mullaney had recently started Eclipse Enterprises in April 1978 with his brother Jan to publish creator-owned comics, and the pair soon began planning how to release Sabre. They settled on a graphic novel format, inspired by Ed Aprill's newspaper strip reprint compilations. While this allowed high quality paper stock compared to the newsprint used by monthly comics, financial reasons limited it to black-and-white interiors and only 38 pages of story; McGregor would later note the irony of the low page count considering his ambitions for lengthier works. Nevertheless as a sign of faith in the project and hoping to earn from future royalties, he was paid only a nominal fee of $300 for writing the story.

Gulacy and other contributors to the graphic novel were paid above page rate, and would also receive royalty payments for any further printings. The book was delayed when several pages of Gulacy's art were lost, the mailman having simply left the package containing them on the doorstep of McGregor's Queens apartment while the writer was out. As such, Gulacy simply had to redraw them. Annette Kawecki was the letterer. P. Craig Russell inked "several" pages, Gulacy said in 1980. A further delay came when both Gulacy and Mullaney objected to the closing section of the book featuring Melissa giving birth; however, McGregor stuck to his guns and the ending stayed. The book bore a dedication to McGregor's daughter, Lauren.

Graphic novel
Mullaney initially found the book difficult to sell; McGregor recalled that major direct market distributor Phil Seuling balked at the price of "$6 for a comic book" - at the time a typical monthly comic book was 35¢, and Marvel's 68-page Giant-Size issues cost 50¢. To help drive orders a seven-page preview was published in the June 1978 issue of Heavy Metal and titled "Prologue One", which was a success. The book - subtitled "Slow Fade of an Endangered Species" - was published in August 1978, and such strong orders that the first printing was sold out in three months; a second printing followed in 1979.

Historical placement
The original printing of Sabre described it as a "comic novel" and McGregor has since referred to it as a "graphic novella" due to its length. Will Eisner's A Contract with God, widely credited with popularising the term, was published a month later. Sabre is generally accepted to be the first graphic novel to be released solely to the direct market, however.

Plot
By February 2020, Earth has succumbed to global famine, energy crises, a plague based on a leaked American-government bioweapon, and, in the U.S., a nine-year drought and a variety of terrorist acts including the contamination of Manhattan's water supply. The U.S. government retreated to a fortress and commenced battling rebels through proxies known as Overseers. One rebel, Sabre, arrives at an abandoned theme park intending to free a group of captured comrades. With him is his lover and fellow rebel, Melissa Siren. As the local Overseer and technician Misty Visions follow their whereabouts, using security cameras that cover most but not every part of the park, Sabre and Melissa infiltrate the park's fantasyland castle and encounter animatronic mermaids and musicians while discussing the nature of men, women and the world that has been left to them. Hunting them are the mercenary Blackstar Blood, who sees Sabre as an honorable adversary, and the Overseer's troops – including the nervous, prattling Willoughby, and Grouse, an "ani-human construction" resembling a hybrid human and jungle cat.

Sabre, fully aware the hostages serve as bait to trap him, nonetheless commandeers a replica of an old sailing ship as he searches for the captives. Blackstar and his crew ram it with one of their own, and capture the duo. Sabre is taken to a Synchronization Center, where, displayed before a gathering of scientists and officials, his memories are methodically wiped clean as he is forced to view Melissa, in a brothel suite, being groped and violated by Clarence, a sentient skeleton, and Grouse. She feigns submissiveness and steals Grouse's metal whip, swinging its bunched coils to tear apart Grouse's robotic head and whipping Clarence until he falls apart. Willoughby, who'd been repulsed by his comrades actions, unlocks her shackles.

In the Synchronization Center, the Overseer frees a docile-seeming Sabre, who instantly fights back, having resisted the removal of his last few memories and pieces of identity. Escaping with a gun, he reaches the brothel suite but finds Melissa gone – and is told by the Overseer that she is dead. They prepare to duel, while elsewhere, Melissa and Willoughby bond as they talk about what brought him here. He tells her the Overseer is keeping the captive rebels in the castle's dungeon. As Blackstar and his men hunt Melissa, the dueling Sabre and Overseer fall from a building onto the monorail tracks just below. Technician Visions prepares to shoot Sabre, but Blackstar kills her out of disgust for the way Sabre and Melissa were tortured and wanting to best Sabre personally. As Sabre and the Overseer battle, and as Blackstar charges his horse toward them while a monorail bears down on all, Melissa and the freed rebels attack. Melissa takes a horse from one of Blackstar's men and rides onto the monorail track, chasing Blackstar. Sabre overpowers the Overseer, but when he sees Blackstar, Melissa and the monorail bearing down, he loses his grip. Blackstar fires his weapon at the monorail, destroying it in a cataclysm that throws the combatants and horses from the track. Sabre shoots the Overseer dead. Blackstar, saying he is now unemployed, suggests that Sabre leave before more forces arrive to capture him.

Two months later, a pregnant Melissa, knowing militias are hunting Sabre, orders him to leave without her. He does, vowing to return for her and their child.

Ongoing series
Eclipse funnelled the profits for the series back into publishing further graphic novels - including McGregor's Detectives Inc.. By 1982 they had expanded to publishing monthly comics, and linked up with McGregor to make an ongoing series featuring Sabre. Eclipse granted McGregor control over the series to the extent that he could effectively decide its length. Gulacy only retained control over how the character looked, rather than any ownership of the character itself; by this point he was working on other projects. The first two issues reprinted "Slow Fade of an Endangered Species", now in colour, before a sequel called "An Exploitation Of Everything Dear", drawn by Billy Graham ran between #3 and #9. The storyline introduced villain Joyful Slaughter, a prospective US president cursed with both herpes and an inability to pronounce 'Sabre'; McGregor would later state than Slaughter eclipsed Killmonger as his favourite villainous creation. Sabre #7 featured gay characters Deuces Wild and Summer Ice kissing, a development that Eclipse editor-in-chief Cat Yronwode recalled drew largely positive responses from readers.

From #10 José Ortiz took over as artist for a third and final Sabre story, "The Decadence Indoctrination", which ran until #14, after which McGregor chose to pursue other projects. McGregor would later express reservations about the quality of some of the paper stock and coloring used for the ongoing series.

Reprint editions
In 1988 the company issued a 10th anniversary edition, which featured a new painted cover by Gulacy and a new introduction from Dean Mullaney - as well as an updated picture of Lauren McGregor. A 20th-anniversary edition was published by Image Comics in 1998, and a 30th-anniversary edition by Desperado Publishing in 2008.

title: Sabre (comics)


text:
Talk:Thomas Cooper Gotch

Untitled
Was he at the Newlyn School? -FZ 01:25, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Better question - was he of the Newlyn School.

List location
I've been working on List of Pre-Raphaelite paintings as none of the other Pre-Raphaelite artists currently have lists of their painted work on their article pages. Should Thomas Gotch's list of works remain on this page or should I transfer it to my new master list page and leave a link here? Madmedea 18:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Return from the Pageant
As a matter of interest, a painting by Gotch was shown on this Sunday's (UK) Antiques Roadshow (2 March 2008). I think it was Return from the Pageant. It was owned by an elderly lady who was surprised when the expert told here it was worth £30,000! So it may come on the market soon... A delightful painting by the way, with a procession of children in semi-darkness lit by paper lanterns, much in the style of that famous Sargent painting. It's a shame more of Gotch's work is not on display. Tate Britain sometimes shows Alleluia, and the Walker in Liverpool has A pageant of children, but the gallery at Kettering keeps most of it stuff in store. I'm sure a collection of reproductions of Gotch would make a very attractive book.92.9.115.111 (talk) 20:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Information haven't found sources for so far
His mother Mary Ann (born 1817 in London Ivy Lane) married Thomas Gotch in St Saviour's Church Southwark in 1847. He had an elder brother, John Alfred Gotch, a successful architect, architecture scholar and antiquarian writer.

He was friends with Albert Chevallier Tayler in Newlyn.

My Crown and Sceptor led to his most well-known work The Child Enthroned made in 1894. The latter, on original exhibition, was hailed by The Times newspaper as the star of that year's Royal Academy show. Until that time, his new style of work had drawn much critical scorn.

He worked first at painting local scenes in the then-fashionable realist manner. But even these often had a romantic edge, such as The Wizard or an obvious love of surface colour.

He painted religious Christian scenes, history painting, portraits, and a few landscapes. His best-known paintings, which form the bulk of his work, usually portray girl-children in ornate classical or medievalist dress. The appearance of the girls in his paintings is often noted as being very modern. Gotch was a close and lifelong friend of Henry Scott Tuke, whose work featured a parallel focus on the boy-child. Gotch's lifelong adoration of the beautiful girl-child was shared by other Victorian giants such as John Ruskin and Lewis Carroll.

His emotionally-charged work was immensely popular and critically acclaimed for most of his life, although interest in neo-romanticism waned after the First World War and he turned to watercolours of flowers. He also illustrated books, such as Round About Wiltshire, The Land of Pardons (an early study of Breton folklore & Celtic Christianity), and contributed illustrations to school readers such as Highroads of Literature.

Access to work: Tate Britain; Falmouth Art Gallery, Penlee House, Penzance; Royal Cornwall Museum, Truro; Alfred East Gallery, Kettering; Walker, Liverpool and Rochdale.

Much of his work has survived, and much is still in England; but has never been collected in a print edition. Manuscripts relating his life and work are in the care of the Victoria and Albert Museum, London. The Alfred East Gallery in Kettering has a substantial collection of his work, but only a small part of it is on permanent display. The gallery sells a small 32-page booklet on Gotch.-- CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 20:39, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thomas Cooper Gotch