text:
Talk:Electrostatic discharge

Untitled
See Talk:Spark_gap for some questions I have about the different kinds of discharge. - Omegatron 18:10, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * This first para is just plain bull and wrong!!. Needs editing ASAP

An electrostatic discharge (ESD) is a sudden flow of electric current '''through a material that is normally an insulator. ''' A large potential difference across the insulator generates a strong electric field, converting the material's atoms into ions that conduct a current.Light current 00:59, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

 * First, current doesn't flow through insulators. Charge may build up and be stored on an insulative surface or material, but discharge occurs when a conductor approaches the charged insulative surface and a breakdown of the air (from a very high electric field creating a plasma or corona discharge) between the conductor and charged insulator (or isolated conductive surface) occurs, causing a current to and through the conductor (air to conductive surface).

 * Second, an isolated conductor can also store charge and when approaching or contacting another conductor cause an electrical discharge (see Van deGraaf generators).

 * Third, the first paragraph of this article does need to be re-written, as it is incorrect and misleading.Wolf 07:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Attempt at re-writing first paragraph: Electrostatic discharge (ESD) is the sudden and momentary electric current that results when an excess of electric charge, either stored on an electrically insulated object or on an isolated conductive object, finds a path to an object at a different electrical potential (such as ground).   It is the large electric field between the two bodies that causes the ESD Event electric current to flow through the conductive path between the two bodies (including the electrical breakdown of the air) and the conductive body.  The term is usually used in the electronics and other industries to describe momentary unwanted currents that may cause damage to electronic equipment, cause ignition to explosive gases and is considered in the design of semiconductors.Wolf 07:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

?? How is that wrong? - Omegatron 02:27, August 5, 2005 (UTC) some people think if you have a generator with a a semiconducting track circling it with say 10 kw running the track spinning the generator producing say 100 kw as the arm from the track to the generator determins (ATR) Amount of torque required and you were say to put this in a Insulated vacum and run it off the power It produces and as Ions compress with increase of engine speed and electrical thrust and the (IPSI) Ionic pressure per Inch increases is released to a (HBT) hydrogen blast tube and Jettisoned It would have a similar resembelence to Lightning any comments? PapyZ1@Juno.com COMMENT: Do authors get to put a link to their websites on these articles? See External Links. (I would like to do the same thing, but wonder if that would commercialize wikipedia.) - A reader.

 * In general, no. However, if your website purely contains facts relevant to the article and is not about yourself, it might be tolerated. --Heron 23:09, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone see a link of the last sentence in "Causes of ESD" to the ESD chapter (LSD)? TheUnremorsefulZork

"These materials are called Electrostatic Dissipate and have resistivity values in the range of 10^5 to 10^11 Ohms." - Resistivity is not measured in ohms. 81.105.21.22 19:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

 * 🤔 GeraGeraLol (talk) 19:57, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Transmission-Line Pulse ESD Testing
In the last few years many papers have been published on TLP. I just referenced the first one which came up in a Google search. DFH 19:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Diagnosis of ESD caused damage
We could do with a new section about diagnosis of ESD caused damage, e.g. in integrated circuits. Sometimes it can be wrongly diagnosed as "mechanical damage". See the paper by Jacob & Nicoletti in the external links section. DFH 11:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

esd gouending voltage
esd grouending voltage masered acor dc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.160.18.128 (talk) 10:15, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
These articles are basically the same and the distinction isn't important. Gigs (talk) 19:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Keep separate. These are indeed distinct topics. ESD is important in the study of natural phenomena and in the manufacture of discharge devices such as the Van der Graaf generator. The study and hardening of static-sensitive devices is a very different topic and is a part of electromagnetic engineering. -- Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I have removed the merge tag from both pages. -- Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Reference to electrical breakdown?
I think this article should mention in the intro that electrostatic discharge is a particular case of electrical breakdown that also includes "continuous" discharges such as corona discharge, glow discharge, arc discharge, and there needs to be a reference to the "Electrical breakdown" article (there is a ref to "dielectric breakdown", but it's hidden in the Sparks section). Also, I don't understand why the Sparks section refers to the article on corona discharge as the "main article". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.185.122 (talk) 01:14, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Radiated fields caused by ESD
I'd like to see a mention of a causal phenomenon of ESD -- currents that cause radiated fields that can couple to conductors and devices in nearby electronic circuits and equipment.

DonL (talk) 06:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Cause of ESD/Static Charge
One thing that bothers me is that this page says that static electricity is casued by friction. It is only caused by contact, friciton itself does not cause the electrical buildup of charges. The static electricty page has it right in any case, and it is only a minor change but should be done — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.114.64.181 (talk) 18:09, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Merging in Electric Spark into....
Talk:Electric_spark

I bring this up, as currently the Lightning page links to the Electric Spark page, and I feel that is a great disservice given the general overall quality of this page. As mentioned in link above, I think this page should be title "Spark" or "Spark/ESD". I would also point out, that the intro is too specific to the application of electronics, not the general phenomena we are looking at, but ESD is significant in electronics & should receive significant weight within this article. Another "electric discharge" page used interchangeably for consideration.... Electrical_discharge.

Comments, suggestions... Borealdreams (talk) 22:38, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Oppose merging since electric sparks are only one type of electrostatic discharge. --Kkmurray (talk) 01:15, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

My apologies, I may have not been clear on what I was suggesting... Electric Spark into the ESD page. The same with the electric discharge page into ESD. Thereby the ESD page is the primary, with the examples/types under it. Which I believe is basically what you are saying as well. Borealdreams (talk) 16:45, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

A Spark Just Happens?
Where's mention of the basic physics on why it happens? Hmmm, nothing has happened to this page in nearly a year??? Given my understanding has improved in this time, I have made changes "Be Bold" that were needed, before I realized this.... As I read over this, I find it very odd there is no mention of Electric potential whatsoever. If there was no potential (a difference in charge) between two objects which have an insulator (generally a non-conducting medium) between them (air usually), there would be no reason for the charges to exceed the threshold of the insulator and form the resulting spark, which is equalizing (equipotential, making equal) the charge of the two objects. That is the absolute basics of bonding of metallic objects that may be exposed to combustible atmospheres, how is electric potential not even discussed here??? I'm going to ask this page is flagged, needing much improvement. Borealdreams (talk) 05:01, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

 * The term you edited out, "potential difference," means the same as "electric potential." But more important is the field strength - volts per metre - because that is what triggers breakdown of an insulator. Many of the pages on electromagnetic topics are in a similarly bad state, but until an enthusiastic author with a decent reference library arrives....
 * BTW, I think you were wrong to delete "explosive" from the description of lightning. An explosion occurs when a shock front travels through a medium faster than sound. When the lead of a lightning stroke travels faster than sound it creates just such a shock front - a clap of thunder. Prolonged lighting creates more of a peal of thunder. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:18, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Steelpillow. Thanks for taking an interest & comments. :)  I would agree, common speak would say the two are the equivalent, but potential means difference... so it's saying "difference difference" due to ambiguity of the word "potential" and is often confused.  For obvious clarity, I like "electric potential", as "electric" clarifies that it is electrical potential one is talking about.
 * With regards to "explosive", I can see your point, but when you mention "lead of a lightning stroke" we again get into ambiguity & common speak issues. Are you meaning during [downward] leader (just talking C-G for the moment for reference) formation as the ionic channel is being established, OR when discharge begins and the massive amounts of energy gets transmitted? I would agree during the latter, the shockwave could be "explosive", but I'm not aware that first part would be so.
 * Hehe, well THAT person is me & I've arrived! AND yes it is ambitious, trust me I know!  I'm trying to clean up everything with regards to lightning, in particular C-G & things that affects mankind's things, and although I've started & made some progress, I realized it was best to make sure all the associated pages are "clean" first.  Bringing the technical info is what I can really offer, formatting wikistyle I'm relatively novice at.
 * Any comments on my "discovered" realization... that in all of this there is no mention of charge[s]? Am I completely missing something?  Cheers & thanks!  Borealdreams (talk) 00:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi there. My point was that there was effectively mention of electric potential until you edited it out. While one can argue about the semantic merits of "potential difference", there is no doubt that it is a widely used term. I would actually suggest that an electric potential was an absolute value at some point relative to some zero reference point. A potential difference between two points is the difference between the electric potentials at those points: that is, neither point is necessarily at zero potential. Many lightning flashes occur between two points in the sky, and so potential difference is the more accurate term for general use. But really, like I said, it's the field strength that is the critical thing and needs more mention.
 * You are surely right about the leader vs the main discharge: leaders often propagate relatively slowly, and the discharge doesn't happen until the leader has grown near enough to its destination to cause breakdown. Then, the supersonic propagation of the main discharge causes a massive thermal expansion of material and accompanying shock front which are the characteristics of an explosion.
 * Looking forward to your work. I'll try to find the time to clean up some wiki stuff, but I am no expert myself. Go to it! — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 20:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

204.229.220.1 (talk) 00:32, 6 April 2016 (UTC)== Electricity Light Current ==

I understand about electricity static discharge and all over the charge. But this I may not proved nor accepted as a laws. I call it electricity interlightism theory. I was looking forward to the Li(light current) formulas. Its the measure of Power(Watts) per Resistance(Ohm). The energy is design as the heat and the ohm are independence. Sadly, it more likely algebra physics. As I wrote: 4*(pi)*β(velocity per speed of light (c))*ƒ(frequency)*θ(angle)*ΔE(energy)÷Z(independence resistance). I don't know how the over science would explain this as the new theory.

Yes, it me again. The Electricity Interlightism Theory is the realistic ionic current. I may know so far that I may say this: the particle movement is flown through between the energy of matters. If my words is true, then I know this is the new moderns theory. The Coloumbus's law that I reduced into the current is similar to my formulas. However, I was work so hard enough.

Thus, the energy that given is the photo-effective might had the clue for the state. It not clear enough for having heat energy that build up by the plates. I will say that this is also the state of matter. It can be solid, liquid, and gases. The most important is the dry states and wet states. But dry states is more dangerous than wet states. The independence resistance had similar as the generator(AC/DC) that prove the particles motion is jagging. And charge is there but depend on the amount of field. In real world, the particle of amp doesn't simple and details. But the particle charge itself, the one that move across.

Electricity Light Current
I'm terribly sorry, I accidence put on somebody else thought. The name Gerald, I works hard enough to find out what all about. I been looking for information and spend time at home, library, and computer. It is the new theory that I might add to it. I might relizes that it call Interlight Discharge. I also woundering about the particles charge diagraim too. The ions twisted and squeaze to release the heat and sound energies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.121.176.106 (talk) 00:14, 27 May 2016 (UTC) Hello, it me again. I just reduce the formulas into kinetic energy and potential energy, and I just solve another answer. But this only required into plasma physics, nuclear physic, and quantum physics. My diagrams are similar to Birkland's Current that show his details, I also seen the Primer Fields (which it had been discover ago). The kinetic energy is the measure of momentum while it kept flowing. And potential is the part of matter of field (which increase the thermo frequency.) I really disagree about the lightning's created, the hail and the rain doesn't form like that. What I need is to find the result about the different between the Kw formulas and the changes in fields. Also there the level among the matter that cause the affection to move into different levels. If the particles are really close to the potential matter, will changes the labels into different section. I also conserved about mass, dielectric, and frequency that needs to solve this. Meanwhile, the potential matter will relocated in different distance. I agree that the levels are reference to radius length, it like some like chemical bond levels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.40.216 (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Link to electrostatics
Why not include a link to electrostatics since they are related topics? Consensus Cheat (talk) 12:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Electrostatic discharge


text:
Talk:Vacuum arc

We have tons of articles about arcs and sparks but I am still not clear on the differences between each. See Talk:Spark gap for some questions I have about the different kinds of discharge. - Omegatron 14:21, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Vacuum arc


text:
That's Entertainment! (song)

"That's Entertainment!" is a popular song with music written by Arthur Schwartz and lyrics by Howard Dietz. The song was published in 1952 and was written especially for the 1953 Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer musical film The Band Wagon. The song is performed in the film by Jack Buchanan supported by Fred Astaire, Nanette Fabray, and Oscar Levant.

In 2004, the song finished at number 45 in AFI's 100 Years...100 Songs survey of top tunes in American cinema. It was orchestrated for the film by Conrad Salinger under the musical direction of Adolph Deutsch.

Since the movie, the song has become the signature tune for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and an anthem for Hollywood and theater in general, being used as an opening number in many shows. Alongside "Hooray for Hollywood," "There's No Business Like Show Business" and "Another Op'nin', Another Show", it is considered one of the American entertainment industry's best known tunes.

The song is perhaps most associated with Judy Garland, who recorded it for her 1960 LP That's Entertainment!, using a shortened version of the original Salinger arrangement. A year later, a live version appeared on Garland's Grammy-winning double album Judy at Carnegie Hall. She also performed it on The Judy Garland Show where she dances around the TV stage during an orchestral interlude.

The song has become nearly synonymous with Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. The studio used the tune for its 1955-56 television series MGM Parade which featured clips from past and forthcoming MGM films. The song title was later used for MGM's popular retrospective film series featuring clips from its golden age, as That's Entertainment!. The original 1974 release spawned two sequels in which the song was retained. The studio also used a remix of Judy Garland's recording of the song to underscore the trailer for the January 15, 2023 launch of the network and streaming platform MGM+, following the network's rebrand from Epix. The 1974 film was also added to the network's streaming platform the same day as the rebrand's launch.

In That's Entertainment, Part II, some new lyrics were added to the song and performed by hosts Gene Kelly and Astaire. The film credited those lyrics to Dietz and Saul Chaplin, one of the film's producers, though Chaplin was known as a composer, not a lyricist.

In 1979, the song was sung with parody lyrics by the villain Mordru in the television special Legends of the Superheroes. In the 1980s, the song was performed, again with new lyrics, by Larry Santos in a commercial for TV Guide magazine.

Renditions

 * Rufus Wainwright - Rufus Does Judy at Carnegie Hall (2007)

title: That's Entertainment! (song)


text: Category:Songs with music by Arthur Schwartz


text:
Talk:Oldsmobile V8 engine

The bore of the Olds and Caddy were the same, 3.81. The Olds had a stroke of 3.31. This was verified in the owners manual of my fathers 1953 Olds. Your error is a mistake on page 593 of MoToR’s AUTO REPAIR MANUAL, copyright 1950.(13th edition, first printing) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terry Furman (talk • contribs) 03:49, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Last Carbureted Engine
I think the claim of the 307 last carburated engine is incorrect. The 1990 Jeep Wrangler with the 258 L-6, and the 1990-1992 Jeep Grand Wagoneers were all carburated.
 * I did some checking around, and can't find any reference to the 1990-1992 Grand Wagoneers even using the 258. I've only checked carpoint.com and alldata's recalls/TSBs list though, so I don't know how comprehensive they are.  Also, this page indicates that the 258 was last used in 1990.  You do seem to be right about the 90 Wrangler, however.  Also, I've come across reference to some Subaru or other using a carburetor in 1990.  Finally, would the Jeeps really be considered "passenger cars"? --King V 17:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The SJ Grand Wagoneers didn't use the 258, they used the AMC 360, which I don't think got fuel injection since Mopar intended to dump it once the SJ was gone.--Sable232 03:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * That sounds about right. Still, I think the paragraph in question should remain unchanged, since it explicitly says "passenger cars", noting the exception of the 1994 Mazda truck, and even separately listing the Ford 351 Police Interceptor (which is closer to being a passenger car, except that the engine was a police-only option). --King V 15:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Isuzu pickup, in 1995, was absolutely the last carbureted vehicle of any kind on the US market. I distinctly remember Motor Trend's "New Truck Issue" in late 1994 stating that fact, but I'll have to dig it out. Also, the Grand Wagoneer only lasted through 1991 - the Grand Cherokee that replaced it was an early '93. Not entirely relevant, but I felt that needed pointing out. Duncan1800 (talk) 07:51, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, while, as you say, it's not entirely relevant, it would still be helpful if you can dig it up and then have a note so that this would be a cited reference. Then it would be a good idea to at least change the bit in the article that refers to the Mazda.--King V (talk) 06:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

303
The 303 Rocket was also used in the "98" Olds series, 1949 - 1953

307 HO in Cadillacs
The 1990 Cadillac Brougham (maybe other years too), when Armor equipped, came with the high-output (VIN 9) 307. --Sable232 20:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've also heard that bit that says some Caddys came with the 307HO, but never have come across one. By Armor, do you mean armor-plated or otherwise bulletproofed?  If so, that's probably why I've never seen 'em!--King V 00:41, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure, I found it in some VIN documentation I came across. --Sable232 01:14, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

403 over 425 for arguable the best motor.
I dont think the 425 was arguably the best olds motor ever. actually for horsepower to square inch the 403 oldsmobile if spiced up a little bit will outperform any 425 oldsmobile. http://www.mondellotwister.com/ArtUnsungH.htm read some of this and I think it will change your mind about the 425.
 * This article covers factory production, not modified engines using aftermarket parts. Plus, one can argue one motor being "better" than the other for any number of reasons (hp/ci being but one aspect).  It's irrelevant to this article.--King V 01:54, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

On the face of it, the 403 was an undesirable stopgap engine for production years 1977-1979. GM liked it because the Olds combustion chamber design was efficient and produced acceptably low emissions without the added expense of an air pump. Performance enthusiasts were grieved to see this engine used in late 70's Pontiac Trans Ams and most of them still regard this engine as a downgrade. Most engines have some design or quality flaws and the 403 was no exception. To GM, this was a cheap-to-install high torque engine, but as usual, the quest for low cost came at a long range price: no special effort was made to control core shift in the casting of these blocks and some of them ended up with very thin walls on one side. Because the 4.351 in. bores were siamesed to permit their use in the dimensions of the Olds small block, excessive bore distortion could then occur which adversely affected oil consumption. If such an engine ever ran without sufficient coolant, it was also more than usually prone to blow a head gasket and (because of block distortion)suffer from the classic Olds 403 weakness in the steel shim intake gasket.

Another weakness is the way that this engine was installed by GM. Typically the 403 was equipped qith a/c but only had a three row radiator because it only had to dump heat that corresponded to 185 bhp. This engine was intended for high torque low horsepower applications. To this day, Europeans marvel at a factory horsepwer rating of only 185 from a gigantic (to them) 6.6 liters. Because of its low specific output it is a simple matter to increase the output of the 403, but it will then need at the very least a four row aftermarket radiator to get rid of the extra heat which will then be produced. The next step (for a performance enthusiast)is to remove and carefully store the outdated a/c system, because running the air conditioner will of course increase the load on the cooling system. Part of the reason for the low emissions of the 403 came from its restricive exhaust system and hopping up the engine without correcting this will only worsen the heat problem. The iron exhaust manifolds used on the various versions of the Olds small block made after 1974 were all externally similar and of good capacity. They used a cross-over pipe however which led into the passenger side manifold. This maniflod then had a second pipe which led into a single catalytic converter. These were small diameter pipes (the 403 cross-over was only 2 in. diameter)and the catalyst was an inefficient pellet type. The flow through the exhaust system can be improved significantly by enlarging the pipe junctions, using larger diameter pipes and a three inch matrix type catalytic converter. Fuel economy will be improved due to reduced pumping losses and emissions will be maintained at the designed level if the carburetion and timing remain correct.

As soon as these improvements are made, the limitations of the restrictive 1.5 in. diameter exhaust valves and asthmatic exhaust ports become obvious. The exhaust valves can with advantage be changed to 1.6 in. and the exhaust ports can be enlarged to suit. The massive valve guides that intrude into the exhaust ports can be cleaned up with a hobby grinder as well. To have these changes result in extra power and economy, it is important to maintain mixture at the lean level specified by the factory. Surprisingly little extra power can be got out of a 403 by reshaping the intake ports, but a further small improvement in this engine can be made by using an aluminum intake manifold (this will certainly have the important advantage of reducing the weight) and using a camshaft that has a little extra lift and exhaust duration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.200.10.59 (talk) 18:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Article Clean-up
In a number of sections of this article there is Bold Red Text stating expression error. It makes this article next to impossible to read. I would fix it if I knew how, but I don't. Is there someone out there that knows how to fix this issue so that the article would be easier to comprehend. Thanks Hypernick1980 (talk) 05:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Proposed addition of early Oldsmobile V8 engines
Oldsmobile produced a V8 from 1916 to 1921 but it was a flat head engine, not OHV. Oldsmobile also built the Viking V-8 in 1929 and 1930 - it was a 90 degree, 81 bhp 260 CID V-8. It used a horizontal valve design with triangular type combustion chambers.Toneron2 (talk) 21:30, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Crossplane crankshaft
I worked in the Lansing Oldsmobile factory in the shop next to the engine plant. I remember these V8s as using a crossplane crankshaft. I have not found a definitive explicit statement that this is correct. My memory could be faulty. The best I can find is "The cross-plane or two-plane crankshaft is the configuration used in most V8 road cars." Can someone point to the definitive answer? Nick Beeson (talk) 21:09, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Chevy Corvair first or second production car to be turbocharged
Hello! So I noticed that this article says that the Chevy Corvair is the first production car to be turbocharged, however the actual article on the Chevy Corvair says the it's the second with the Oldsmobile Turbofire being the first. So which is it? The first or second? ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 02:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Oldsmobile V8 engine


text:
Edna Gladney

Edna Browning Kahly Gladney (January 22, 1886 – October 2, 1961) was an early campaigner for children's rights and better living conditions for disadvantaged children.

Her life story was told in the 1941 film Blossoms in the Dust, in which she was portrayed by Greer Garson, who was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Actress for her performance as Gladney.

Early life
Edna Browning Jones was born on January 22, 1886, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin to Minnie Nell. Her mother was not married and was 17 when Edna was born. Her natural father never was revealed, and Jones later married Maurice Kahly. Jones and Kahly had a daughter together, named Dorothy. Edna worked as a clerk at Mutual Life Insurance to support her mother and sister, but was sent to live with her aunt and uncle, an executive at Texas & Pacific Coal and Thurber Brick Company in Fort Worth, Texas in 1904. Edna's aunt was involved in Fort Worth society and women's clubs, and Edna quickly moved into these social circles as well.

Though expecting to only stay in Fort Worth for a few months, Edna stayed longer, and in 1906, she met Sam Gladney, a native of Gainesville, Texas who worked at Medlin Mills. After a summer of courtship, Edna left her fiancé from Wisconsin and eloped with Sam two days before their planned wedding. The Gladneys lived in Wolfe City, Texas from 1909 to 1913, then moved to Sherman, Texas where Sam had bought his own flour mill. In 1910, Edna joined the Sherman Civic League and started inspecting local meat markets and public restrooms for cleanliness.

Grayson County Poor Farm
On one of these Grayson County, Texas inspections, Gladney came across the Grayson County Poor Farm, which was little more than a dumping ground for the feeble-minded, handicapped, indigent, mentally ill, and unwanted. Appalled at the Poor Farm's conditions, especially for children, she enlisted the other Civic League members in a campaign for improvements beginning in 1917. The Civic League had a meeting with the Grayson County Commissioners Court, the local governing body and owners of the Poor Farm, where they declared it everyone's responsibility to care for the children at the farm. Impatient for action, the women of the civic league, led by Gladney, went to the farm and personally cleaned it. Gladney then arranged the transfer of the children to the Texas Children's Home and Aid Society in Fort Worth run by Reverend I.Z.T. Morris.

Texas Children's Home and Aid Society
By 1910, Gladney had joined the board of directors for the Texas Children's Home and Aid Society. She studied settlement work and child welfare, and established a free day nursery in Sherman to provide childcare for working mothers who had moved into industrial jobs during World War I. Thirty-five women enrolled their children on opening day of the Sherman Day Nursery and Kindergarten for Working Mothers. The free day nursery was financed by Gladney and donations to collection boxes that she placed in local businesses. The day nursery was among the early daycare facilities in Texas and was operated by the City of Sherman until 2008.

While living in Sherman, Gladney audited classes at the North Texas Female College. In 1921, the Gladneys returned to Fort Worth, where Edna attended classes at Texas Christian University. The Gladneys commissioned Edna's cousin, the renowned American architect Frank Lloyd Wright, to design a home in Fort Worth's Forest Park neighborhood, but the plans never were realized.

Gladney began to devote more and more of her time to the Texas Children's Home and Aid Society, and by 1927, she had been named superintendent, a position she held until 1961. In 1929, Fort Worth publisher and philanthropist Amon G. Carter helped secure the first home for the Texas Children's Home and Aid Society. The large home, located on El Paso Street, was owned by the head of Texas Power and Light; Edna's mother oversaw daily operations of the facility until her death in 1938.

After her husband died on Valentine's Day in 1935, Gladney continued to make the welfare of unwanted children the center of her life, personally placing children with adoptive families. She continued the work of Reverend Morris by placing abandoned children with adoptive families. She also expanded the society's activities to focus on the care of unmarried mothers and an adoption service for their babies. She focused her efforts on hard-to-place children during the Depression.

In 1950, the Texas Children's Home and Aid Society bought the West Texas Maternity Hospital, which was renamed the Edna Gladney Home (now the Gladney Center for Adoption). The purchase of the hospital expanded services to birth mothers and provided prenatal care. This new agency also operated a baby home where infants received care until their adoption.

Legislation
Gladney lobbied the Texas 44th legislature of 1935 to have the word "illegitimate" kept off birth certificates of adopted and abandoned children. She succeeded in 1936, making Texas the first state in the southwest to legally remove the stigma of illegitimacy. In 1939, Gladney successfully campaigned for a change in the Texas law that sealed the original birth certificates of adopted children and that made a second copy of the birth certificate, listing only the child's adoptive name and parents; the sealed original birth certificate could be opened only by court order. In 1951, Gladney helped to get a bill passed that gave adopted children the same inheritance rights as biological children and recognized that they should be legally adopted rather than placed in "long-term guardianship."

Blossoms in the Dust
In 1939, Ralph Wheelwright, an MGM publicist who had adopted a child from the Texas Children's Home, developed a story based on Gladney's work, which became the film Blossoms in the Dust. The 1941 film starred Greer Garson and Walter Pidgeon as Edna and Sam Gladney, and was the first of eight films the actors made together. The film's sets, noted for their accuracy, were based on detailed photographs shot on location in Sherman, Fort Worth, and Austin, Texas. All of Gladney's proceeds from the film went back into funding the children's home.

Death and legacy
Ill health forced Gladney into semi-retirement in 1960, but she remained active as an adviser until her death on October 2, 1961, from complications of diabetes. Gladney is buried at Rose Hill Cemetery in East Fort Worth. Gladney placed over 10,000 babies with adoptive parents during her career and totally revolutionized adoption practices. She helped to grant adoptive children the same rights as "natural" children and gave orphaned children and many birth mothers a place to stay and a hospital where they could receive treatment. Gladney helped develop modern day adoption practices and removed the stigma of "illegitimacy" from birth records and from society. Gladney treated all of "her" children as if they were her own and continued correspondence with adopted children long after they had left her care.

In 2019, the Gladney Center was excited to unveil a very special bronze bust of Mrs. Gladney by artist Linda Stinson. Stinson has art pieces in museums and hall of fame galleries throughout the United States. After collecting many photos and reading Edna's life story, Linda began the long creative process of sculpting Edna in the summer of 2018.

The piece stands 5’3” tall, the same height of Edna Gladney. Although a hat was not in the original plan, Linda said Edna kept telling her “I need a hat.” Linda “listened” and the sculpture is wearing one of Edna's signature hats. The pedestal contains a bronze bas-relief panel with 66 leaves, each leaf represents 150 babies that were adopted during Edna's time of service at the Gladney Center. Each of the leaves has a birth date and baby's name etched in it.

title: Edna Gladney


text:
Manta Force

MANTA Force is a line of toys produced by British toy company Bluebird in 1987. The toyline was initially divided into two main factions: the heroic MANTA Force and their opponents, the evil Viper Squad. Following the popularity of the MANTA Force toy range, an additional enemy was introduced in 1989; a group of robots known as the Karnoids, who were an enemy of both MANTA Force and the Viper Squad. The following year saw the release of the Stenchoids, which were another new threat for the humans. By the early 1990s however, the popularity of the toy range began to decrease and eventually production was stopped.

Plot
By 2012, humans had colonised many planets throughout the Solar System, including Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. The planet Earth however, had become polluted and overpopulated. In an attempt to save mankind, President Battaille ordered the creation of the MANTA ship. MANTA Force was an acronym for Multiple-Air-Naval-Terrain-Assault Force and was the most advanced Earth ship ever built. It was designed to work in any environment and its engine was fuelled by a substance called Thorium.

Following the successful launch of the MANTA Force ship, the World Government created the Red Venom to help Manta Force colonise New Earth. On Saturn however, many of the people had grown tired of living in plastic bubbles and believed New Earth should belong to them. During its test runs therefore, the Red Venom was hijacked by a group of highly skilled soldiers called the Viper Squad. Under the command of Major Vex, the Viper Squad attempted to use the Red Venom to hijack the MANTA Force ship, so they could be the ones to colonise New Earth.

Later the two opposing sides joined forces to fight off attacks from a cybernetic alien known as Mad Karnock, who was served by an army of robots called Karnoids. Another enemy also emerged from the swamps of New Earth in the form of the vile Stinkhorn, leader of the Stenchoids, who attempted to destroy the humans with their decomposing Stench weapons (which excreted a green compound similar to Play-Doh).

Manta Force toys

 * MANTA Force - Giant 2-in-1 spaceship which housed 10 smaller vehicles.
 * Red Venom - Huge red spaceship for the Viper Squad. Splits into 9 all-terrain vehicles.
 * Battle Fortress - MANTA Force bunker with Viper Squad disc launcher
 * Star Blaster - Silver rocket for Viper Squad, which split into 4 individual aircraft.
 * Black Barracuda - Black spaceship which separated into several vehicles, including a tank and a Karnoid robot factory.
 * Bog Rocket - Purple spaceship, that could convert into a fortress for Stinkhorn and his Stenchoids.
 * Astro Shark - White starship that contained several smaller ships. Also included an exclusive red MANTA pilot.

Smaller sets

 * Yellow Wolves - Yellow redecos of the 3 land vehicles from the MANTA ship.
 * Red Hawks - Red redecos of the 3 air vehicles from the MANTA ship.
 * Blue Sharks - Blue redecos of the 3 sea vehicles from the MANTA ship.
 * Black Viper - Black redeco of the Battle Copter from the MANTA ship.
 * Porcupine - MANTA Hawks field gun.
 * Sting Ray - MANTA Hawks rescue ship.
 * Red Viper - Viper Squad attack ship.
 * The Sledge Hammer - MANTA Force field Gun.
 * The Dictator - Viper Squad field gun.
 * The Equalizer & The Vaporizer - Field guns for M.A.N.T.A Force & Viper Squad, sold together.
 * The Scythe - MANTA Force vehicle with disc launcher.
 * The Cyclops - MANTA Force vehicle with double barreled cannon.
 * The Zip Gun - MANTA Force vehicle with rapid fire pellet gun.
 * Doomsday - Viper Squad double barreled cannon.
 * Rattle Snake - Viper Squad red Zip Gun.
 * B.A.T. - Wheeled combat vehicle for the Viper Squad.
 * Battle Buzzard - Viper Squad 2-man hang glider.
 * Wasp - Viper Squad motorcycle.
 * Reinforcements - Includes 16 MANTA men.
 * Ammo Pack - 14 replacement projectiles for the vehicles.
 * Gutz - Black redeco of Mad Karnack's attack vehicle from the Black Barracuda.
 * Ground Hog - Karnoid land vehicle. Can be combined with Black Barracuda.
 * Glutten - Karnoid land vehicle. Can be combined with Black Barracuda.
 * Snatch - Red Karnoid jet fighter. Can be combined with Black Barracuda.
 * Sneak - Red Karnoid jet fighter. Can be combined with Black Barracuda.
 * Hammer-Head - Karnoid battering ram.
 * Turbo-Drill - Karnoid drill vehicle.
 * Sling-Shot - Karnoid catapult.
 * Spit-Bug - Karnoid missile launcher.
 * Snatch (black) - Black redeco of original Snatch. Can combine with Karnoid land vehicles.
 * Sneak (black) - Black redeco of original Sneak. Can combine with Karnoid land vehicles.
 * Stinkjet - Silver UFO for the vile Stinkhorn.
 * Stenchoid - Included a Stenchoid, M.A.N.T.A men, and a Stench Egg.
 * Stench Refill - included a large green Stench refill and several MANTA men.

Eagle strip
A comic strip based on the toyline was featured in the IPC Magazines anthology comic Eagle between 5 September 1987 to 23 January 1988. The first episode was written by John Wagner and Alan Grant (under the pseudonym 'R. Steele' and drawn by Ian Kennedy, with subsequent instalments scripted by Alan Hebden and illustrated by Mike Dorey.

Other comics
Following the conclusion of the comic strip in Eagle, Marvel UK produced a one-shot special in 1989. Bluebird themselves also published two promotional comics to promote the Black Barracuda and Vile Stinkhorn toy ranges. These promotional comics were generally found in the packages of other Manta Force toys.

Storybooks
In July 1989, Carnival released two books based on the Manta Force toyline, called Manta Force - The Enemy Within and Manta Force - Red Venom Attack!. Both books were written by Royston Drake.

title: Manta Force


text: Category:Songs with lyrics by Howard Dietz


text:
Talk:Asymptotically flat spacetime

Need coordinate-free description of AF
I think this description: "An asymptotically flat spacetime is a spacetime in which the metric approaches the Minkowski metric very far from the gravitating object."

is too confining, because it is coordinate-dependent.

I would tend to say:

"An asymptotically flat spacetime is a spacetime in which the geometry approaches that of Minkowski space at large distances from the source or sources of gravity."

That allows more arbitrary coordinates. Your definition would not even allow Minkowski spacetime with spherical coordinates for the space part. We need to move from coordinate-dependent statements to more geometry-dependent statements were possible in my opinion. Pdn 18:15, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I may have misunderstood what you wrote, but I think my definition would still include Minkowski spacetime by default (it's just using a different coordinate system - Minkowski in spherical polars approaches Minkowski in spherical polars). Whatever the Minkowski metric looks like in a given coordinate system, one can always bring it into the standard form (diag{1,1,1,-1}) using a non-singular coordinate transformation. However, I do agree that a more geometric definition is better. Mpatel 11:51, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it up. Actually, the original writing said "Minkowski metric" which is diag(1,-1,-1,-1,-1) or its negative depending on which signature you use. Spherical polar coordinates have some powers of r and sine squared in the metric. So although I am perhaps close to splitting hairs, I believe I was right insofar as the accuracy of description goes. Of course, in a more general case, one might run into Minkowski spacetime even better disguised, so one has to look to geometry, not to the metric. A good example is the bookFoundations of Radiation Hydrodynamics Author(s): Mihalas, Dimitri; Mihalas, Barbara Weibel. ISBN: 0195034376. Pub. Date: 1/1/1985. Oxford Univ Press. This book has metrics, tensors, and Christoffel symbols galore and purports to be general-relativistic, but the Riemann tensor is in all cases zero. Of course, by correctly using the tensors and so on in flatspace, one may (sic) make the material portable to G.R. but that's not guaranteed. Pdn 15:27, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Sources of gravity", to me, means sources of geometry, so approaching a 'flat spacetime' is another way of changing geometry. Also, I have a question. When humanity discovered electricity, did it allow us to use electricity to change any other part of "natural" nature, or to change electricity itself? When we discovered how to split the atom, did it allow us to change any other part of "natural" nature, or to change the quarks? Moreover, just because humanity understands how to control the affects of nature, does not mean that we can control the essence of nature. Therefore, I now seek how to create a geometry the same way we currently have it, rather than seeking to change it's essence. Chadyoung (talk) 05:00, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

I also got from separate personal research that flat spacetime is free of gravitation. Chadyoung (talk) 05:44, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Major rewrite
This article is presently in an awful state. I got sick of seeing it so messed up, so am trying to completely rewrite it. Naturally, this turns out to involve writing or rewriting other articles, and I am being called away in the middle of the work. I'll try to finish it later tonight, so am leaving the flag. Note that this article cannot even pretend to be acceptable until a definition is given!---CH [[User_talk:Hillman|(talk)]] 22:46, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia is too darn slow/unstable for me to continue. I'll have to wait for better service to try to pick up the thread.---CH  [[User_talk:Hillman|(talk)]] 01:11, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Mark Roberts
The version of this article prior to the heavily rewritten one by myself was due in part to User:Markdroberts, who cited his own preprint, which I think most experts in the field would agree is quite weakly/incoherently argued and even, in places, misleading. In my revision, I left in the citation, in fact I devoted much space to discussing the objections which Roberts raises, but I tried to give a more balanced discussion, with citations which in my view better represent the state of the art regarding rotating fluid solutions.

This raises yet again the problem of academic mavericks (or at least academically trained mavericks) writing biased articles on technical subjects or introducing bias simply by citing only a very small and non-mainstream portion of the relevant literature. This example is particularly troubling because even physicists with other specialities than classical gravitation might not realize at a glance how misleading the previous discussion was.

Disappointed, CH [[User_talk:Hillman|(talk)]] 01:11, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Minority of "one"
This wikipedia article mentions a "minority of one" physicist that oppose GR as an acceptable theory. Is this "one" physicist Mark Roberts? Why is the article written in this contrived style? I don't think this is an acceptable way of writing an article. Can someone fix this?

... A tiny minority of physicists (actually, a minority of one) appear to believe that general relativity is unacceptable because it does not allow sufficiently general asymptotically flat solutions... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.4.60 (talk) 16:52, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Section removed due to probable WP:UNDUE and being unclear. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 12:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

merging asymptotic flatness
The asymptotic flatness is an orphaned stub with no content that isn't already in this duplicate article. I've marked both pages with merge tags, but I suggest simply deleting asymptotic flatness.--207.233.86.35 (talk) 21:02, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Done by a simple redirect. The old Asymptotic flatness article did have some additional (unsourced) information, so I invite anyone who knows more about this topic than I to check if that's worth salvaging. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 12:15, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Asymptotically flat spacetime. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051231024252/http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2004-1 to http://relativity.livingreviews.org/open?pubNo=lrr-2004-1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:51, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Asymptotically flat spacetime


text:
User talk:Ostiarius

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --JYolkowski // talk 18:15, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

title: User talk:Ostiarius


text:
Western Freeway (Mumbai)

The Western Freeway was a proposed controlled-access highway in Mumbai, India that would stretch from Marine Drive in South Mumbai to Kandivli in the north, a distance of 29 km. The project envisioned the construction of four major sea links over the Arabian Sea along Mumbai's western coastline to reduce traffic-congestion between the Western Suburbs and South Mumbai.

The first sea link, known as the Bandra–Worli Sea Link, was completed in June 2009, and connects Bandra in the north and Worli in the south with a cable-stayed bridge spanning the Mahim Bay. This development relieved congestion on the Mahim Causeway, which until then had been the only road between the Western Suburbs and South Mumbai on the western sea front. The second sea bridge, the Versova–Bandra Sea Link, is currently under construction and is expected to be completed by 2027.

In 2011, the Coastal Road was proposed as a lower-cost alternative to the Western Freeway. The 8-lane, 29.2-km long Coastal Road would run along Mumbai's western coastline connecting Marine Lines to Kandivali. The Coastal Road connects Marine Lines with the Worli end of the Bandra–Worli Sea Link through roads built on reclaimed land and tunnels rendering the proposed Haji Ali–Nariman Point Sea Link and Worli-Haji Ali Sea Link of the Western Freeway redundant. Construction of a 9.98 km section of the Coastal Road between Marine Lines and Worli began in 2018 and is expected to be completed by 2023.

Haji Ali-Nariman Point Sea Link
This section would have been an extension of the sea-link from Haji Ali to Priyadarshini Park, and onward to Malabar Hill. The section was sub-divided into the following:
 * Coastal road from north of Princess Street flyover. It would be a cut-and-cover tunnel which would connect to a bored tunnel under Malabar Hill. The tunnel will exit Napean Sea Road beyond Priyadarshini Park.
 * From Priyadarshini Park till Mahalaxmi Temple. The committee has recommended a coastal road through reclamation.
 * A coastal road, at Haji Ali Bay, through reclamation for an 8-lane road.
 * A connector bridge running around the Haji Ali Dargah. This will connect the road to the north end of the Haji Ali Bay till the Baroda Palace Point.

On 16 April 2013, Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan told the state Assembly that the Nariman Point–Haji Ali sea link was "impractical". Chavan stated, "As far as the sea link is concerned, the consultant had ruled out the possibility of taking it further than Haji Ali. We will look at other alternatives." Chavan also said that he would promote a coastal road as an alternative to the sea link.

Worli–Haji Ali Section
This section is the immediate extension of the Bandra–Worli Sea Link further into the heart of Mumbai city. The current design allows for a clover leaf junction at Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan Marg (at Worli) for ramp up of traffic onto the sea link. This includes twin carriageway of 3.315 km termed as main line and connectors at Worli and Haji Ali. While mainline is to be made of entirely precast segmental spans, the connectors will be made of segmental and I beams. A 10-lane toll plaza is proposed at the start of the section at Worli.

Bandra–Worli Sea Link
The Bandra-Worli Sea Link was opened to traffic on 30 June 2009. The Sea Link reduces travel time between Bandra and Worli from 45 to 60 minutes to 7 minutes. The link has an average daily traffic of around 37,500 vehicles per day. The toll charged is for one-way and  for a return journey.

There are plans to add an 800 m bridge to turn the Worli connector from a 4-lane to 8-lane freeway.

Versova-Bandra Sea Link
The Versova-Bandra Sea Link (VBSL) is an Under Construction 9.89-km long sealink that connects Bandra with Versova. It is a northward extension of the Bandra-Worli Sea Link. The VBSL will be built on pillars 900 metres into the Arabian Sea. Juhu beach will have a 150-metre-long cable-stayed portion. The freeway should reduce congestion on the Western Express Highway and the Western Line of the Mumbai Suburban Railway. The 8-lane sea link will pass through Bandra, Juhu Koliwada, Versova and Carter Road.

The project will be developed through public private partnership on a design, build, finance, operate and transfer basis, The cost of the project was originally estimated as inr 40450000000 in 2012. This escalated to inr 43400000000 in 2013, it is currently estimated to cost inr 59750000000. The project is expected to be completed five years from its commencement.

The Versova-Bandra Sea Link received environmental clearance, under certain conditions, from the Ministry of Environment and Forests (MoEF) in January 2013.

A cabinet sub-committee on infrastructure chaired by Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan cleared the project on 15 January 2014. Some observers felt that the move was an attempt to keep Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) happy prior to the 2014 Lok Sabha elections, as this project and the Pune Ring Road project which was also approved the sub-committee, would be undertaken by the MSRDC, which was then headed by the NCP. The project had been pending for approval for the past three years. The fate of the sealink had been uncertain after Chavan said that coastal roads were less expensive to build. Chavan stated that he also favoured coastal roads because they had less environmental hurdles than a sealink. BMC officials stated that the government had not clarified the future of the coastal road project, after approving the VBSL.

The MSRDC invited request for qualification (RFQ) from companies interested in constructing the VBSL on 2 March 2014. The agency conducted a pre-bid conference for potential bidders on 28 March. The last date for the submission of technical bids was fixed as 30 May, and the MSRDC plans to open technical bids on 31 May, as per the tender notice. The MSRDC estimated that the project concession period to be 35 years in the absence of any viability gap funding (the state's financial contribution in a PPP project). However, after some members of the infrastructure sub-committee expressed reservations about the long concession period, the corporation decided to seek 20% from the Union government, which the MSRDC estimates will reduce the concession period to about 28–30 years.

History
In its report, submitted in January 2012, the Joint Technical Committee advised the government to build a 35.6 km coastal freeway from Manora MLA Hostel at Nariman Point to Kandivali. The project is estimated to cost ₹ 10,000 crore.

Coastal Regulation Zone (CRZ) norms in India disallow reclamation of land. Construction of the coastal freeway would require a relaxation of the CRZ norms, as certain sections are proposed on reclaimed land. The change in norms can only be done through an amendment to the law by the Central Government. During a meeting between Prithviraj Chavan and Union environment minister Jayanthi Natarajan on 20 June 2013, Natarajan expressed concerns about the implications of relaxing CRZ norms, on creeks and mangroves. However, the minister stated that she would "put the state's proposal at the next meeting [24 June 2013] of the National Coastal Zone Management Authority". However, despite specific assurance from the minister, the National Coastal Zone Management Authority (NCZMA) decided not to include the coastal road plan in their next meeting's agenda.

Coastal Freeway
The Coastal Freeway is a proposed alternative to the Western Freeway. The 29.2-km freeway is proposed to run along Mumbai's western coastline connecting Marine Lines in the south to Kandivli in the north. The estimated cost of the project is inr 140000000000. In the first phase of the project, the road will connect Princess Street and the Bandra-Worli Sea Link, and is expected be completed by 2019. A tunnel beginning at Chowpatty will link to Priyadarshini park, after which the coastal road will pass through the Bandra-Worli Sea Link. Work on the second phase, a sea link between Bandra and Kandivali, will begin after the completion of the first phase. A further extension of the road to Vasai-Virar has also been proposed.

History
In 2011, Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan asked the MSRDC to think of building coastal roads instead of capital intensive sea links. He appointed a Joint Technical Committee, comprising experts and officials, in 2012 under the then Municipal commissioner Subodh Kumar to study the plan to build a coastal road. In its report, submitted in January 2012, the committee advised the government to build a 35.6 km coastal freeway from Manora MLA Hostel at Nariman Point to Kandivali to ease traffic congestion. The project was estimated to cost ₹ 10,000 crore and would have consisted of roads built on reclaimed land as well as stilts, bridges and tunnels. The committee was against building any more sea links and pointed out that the coastal road would help save ₹ 120 billion of public money. The 35.6 km road was proposed to begin near Manora (MLA Hostel), with entry and exit points at Jagannath Bhosale Marg, move along Marine Drive and lead into a tunnel that would go under Malabar Hill and exit on the other side of Priyadarshini Park. This stretch was proposed to be built on reclaimed portions up to Haji Ali, and then to Lala Lajpatrai Road in Worli. The coastal freeway would then be connected to the Worli arm of the Bandra-Worli Sea Link by a bridge. On the Bandra side, the coastal road skirting the fort would connect the coastal freeway up to Chimbai village, where a bridge was proposed. A road by reclamation of mangroves, further north, or a road on stilts, and an elevated road between Oshiwara and Malad was also proposed. The proposed freeway would have had 18 entry and exit points along its route. The project is estimated to cost ₹ 8,000-10,000 crore, and take 5 years to complete. Critics of the freeway opposed it due to the reclamation required and have also cited possible environmental degradation along the coast.

Coastal Regulation Zone (CRZ) norms in India disallow reclamation of land. Construction of the coastal freeway would require a relaxation of the CRZ norms, as certain sections are proposed on reclaimed land. The change in norms can only be done through an amendment to the law by the Central Government. After discussing the project on 10 April 2013, the Maharashtra coastal zone management authority (MCZMA), the state's apex environment body, urged the centre to amend the CRZ notification to permit "reclamation for roads". The MCZMA stated that reclamation should not be permitted for any other development activity and that the high tide line must not be altered. The MCZMA also argued that the ring road would serve as a protection wall from inland flooding, besides being a vital road link for decongesting traffic. During a meeting between Prithviraj Chavan and Union environment minister Jayanthi Natarajan on 20 June 2013, Natarajan expressed concerns about the implications of relaxing CRZ norms, on creeks and mangroves. However, the minister stated that she would "put the state's proposal at the next meeting [24 June 2013] of the National Coastal Zone Management Authority". However, despite specific assurance from the minister, the National Coastal Zone Management Authority (NCZMA) decided not to include the coastal road plan in their next meeting's agenda.

During the 2014 assembly elections, the BJP promised to implement the project if elected. On 6 June 2015, the State Government signed an MoU with the Dutch Government for technical co-operation in implementing the project. The Netherlands is known for its environment-friendly reclamation and the use of the sea. On 8 June 2015, the coastal road project received clearance from the Union Ministry of Environment and Forests.

Initial work on the project began on 26 November 2016. Shiv Sena president Uddhav Thackeray stated that a survey of the soil at the seabed was being undertaken. The foundation stone for the project for the coastal road project is scheduled for monsoon 2017.

title: Western Freeway (Mumbai)


text:
Berwickshire (UK Parliament constituency)

Berwickshire was a county constituency of the House of Commons of the Parliament of the United Kingdom from 1708 to 1918, when it was amalgamated with neighbouring Haddington(shire) to form a new Berwick and Haddington constituency.

Creation
The British parliamentary constituency was created in 1708 following the Acts of Union, 1707 and replaced the former Parliament of Scotland shire constituency of Berwickshire. It elected one Member of Parliament (MP), using the first-past-the-post voting system.

Elections in the 1830s
Marjoribanks resigned, causing a by-election.

Elections in the 1870s
Robertson was elevated to the peerage, becoming Lord Marjoribanks and causing a by-election.

Elections in the 1880s

Marjoribanks was appointed Comptroller of the Household, requiring a by-election.

Elections in the 1910s


text:
Talk:Enterprise Resource Planning audit

This reads like a whitepaper, not like an encyclopedia article. It would be most appreciated if the editor(s) responsible for this article would rewrite it into encyclopedic format. Kelly Martin 18:19, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Enterprise Resource Planning audit


text:
George Strickland Kingston

Sir George Strickland Kingston (23 August 1807 – 26 November 1880) was the Deputy Surveyor to William Light, engaged to survey the new colony of South Australia. He arrived in South Australia on the Cygnet in 1836. Kingston was also the first Speaker of the South Australian House of Assembly.

Early life
Kingston was born in Bandon, County Cork, Ireland, one of five children of George Kingston and Hester Holland. Strickland's father owned a lumberyard, a tenement (Kingston Buildings), and was credited with being involved in the three canal plans for Bandon. Strickland immigrated to England and was employed in Birmingham in 1832. He subsequently took an active part in promoting the South Australian Act in 1834 and helped to lobby successfully for its passage through the House of Commons.

Deputy Surveyor, South Australia Colony
Kingston was appointed deputy surveyor to the new province and sailed with most of the surveying party in the Cygnet in March 1836. Because he detoured to Rio de Janeiro for supplies the Cygnet did not arrive at Nepean Bay until 11 September 1836, nearly a month after Colonel William Light, who was therefore left short-handed at a critical time. However it was Kingston, John Morphett and Lieutenant W.G. Field who found the River Torrens.

Kingston's ability as a surveyor was frequently questioned and his lack of qualifications and blunders in the survey of Adelaide caused Light to have some of his work re-surveyed by Assistant Surveyors Boyle Travers Finniss and George Owen Ormsby. Completion of the survey of the city was delayed for a fortnight because of his mistakes. However it was he who was spared to return to England in August 1837 to ask for reinforcements for the Survey Department. The colonisation commissioners sent him back next June with orders unpalatable to Light, who resigned with all but three of his staff. Kingston resigned soon after Governor George Gawler's arrival in October 1838 and Ormsby, "one of the best, if not the very best, on the staff of Col. Light", was put in temporary charge of the survey, with directions 'to proceed with the utmost despatch'.

Later career
Kingston established himself as a civil engineer, architect and surveyor, and in 1840 the Adelaide Municipal Council briefly engaged him as town surveyor. He was later engaged as inspector of public works and, buildings. Among his works still standing are the south-eastern corner of Government House (1839), the original section of the Adelaide Gaol (1840), Cummins House at Camden Park (1841) and Kingston Historical House (1840, 1851). He also designed the first monument to Colonel Light in Light Square (1843). He designed White's Rooms, Adelaide's first public entertainment venue.

On 10 July 1851, Kingston was sworn in as a member of South Australia's first elected parliament and held his seat in the Legislative Council until 2 February 1857. On 9 March 1857, Kingston was elected to the newly established House of Assembly and became the first Speaker on 22 April 1857. Kingston held this position until 22 March 1860 and again from 31 March 1865 until his death on 26 November 1880. Kingston represented The Burra and Clare from 9 March 1857 to 22 March 1860 and Stanley from 6 May 1861 until his death.

Kingston was prominent in forming the South Australian Mining Association to keep the mineral wealth of the colony from overseas speculators. With Edward Stephens, he investigated copper finds at Burra in 1845, and then played a leading role in the 'snobs' party to defeat the 'nobs' for the mine. An original shareholder, he was appointed surveyor and architect of the mining association but it was William Jacob who carried out the Burra special survey of 20,000 acres (8094 ha). In April 1848 he was elected a director, deputy-chairman in October 1856 and chairman from 1857 until his death. In its first five years the 'monster mine' paid fifteen dividends each of 200 per cent.

In 1858 Kingston was part of the team who surveyed the namesake town of Kingston, later renamed Kingston SE as a part of a private real estate development.

Kingston was knighted in 1870. He died in 1880 aboard the RMS Malwa on his way to India and was buried at sea.

Other interests
Kingston was interested in the Volunteer movement and was once captain of the East Adelaide Rifles. He was also a founding member and later Master of The South Australian Lodge of Friendship and of the Statistical Society, keeping a valuable register of Adelaide's rainfall from 1839–1879. Kingston was also one of the founding members of the Freemasons South Australian Lodge of Friendship No. 613 (under a Warrant or Charter of Constitution which was issued at Adelphi, London, England on 22 October 1834). The original Lodge to which Kingston belonged was Irish Lodge No 81. Kingston was the first Senior Warden of the new South Australian Lodge and on 14 August 1838, Kingston was elected Master. He was a member of the Agricultural and Horticultural Society and its president from 1859 to 1860.

Personal life
Kingston married three times, being widowed in his first two marriages. He married his first wife Henrietta Ann McDonough in 1829; she died ten years later and their only child died soon after childbirth. Six children were born to his second wife, Ludovina Catherina da Silva Cameron (daughter of soldier Charles Cameron (1779–1827) ), after their marriage on 10 April 1841. She died ten years later and Kingston married widow Emma Lipson (1816–1876), daughter of Thomas Lipson R.N., South Australia's first harbourmaster, on 4 December 1856 (no children resulted from this marriage).
 * His youngest daughter, Charlotte Julian Kingston (11 September 1845 – 20 May 1913) married Hubert Giles (21 October 1842 – 11 August 1901), son of William Giles, on 17 March 1880.
 * Strickland Gough "Pat" Kingston (1848–1897) married Kathleen Pittar Stanton in 1879. In 1894 she founded Yoothamurra School in Glenelg.
 * His youngest son, Charles Cameron Kingston (22 October 1850 – 11 May 1908) was Premier of South Australia from 1893 to 1899.

Memorials
Kingston's name has been applied to the following places in South Australia - Hundred of Kingston, Mount Kingston near Lake Eyre, Kingston Park (a suburb of Adelaide) and the township of Kingston SE. The township of Kingston-on-Murray was named after his son, Sir Charles Cameron Kingston.

List of buildings attributed to Sir George Strickland Kingston

 * Ayers House, Adelaide
 * Old Adelaide Gaol, Adelaide
 * Original Treasury Building, Victoria Square, Adelaide
 * Government House, Adelaide
 * Customs House, Glenelg
 * Cummins House, 23 Sheoak Avenue, Novar Gardens, South Australia
 * Colonel William Light Monument, Light Square, Adelaide (demolished 1905)
 * Kingston Historical House, Brighton
 * Lochend House, Campbelltown, the home of Charles James Fox Campbell
 * Residential Cottage Home, 3 Market Street, Burra

title: George Strickland Kingston


text:
User:PudgyMoogle

PudgyMoogle
Hi.

This is my blog:

moogle.savagenoodle.com (Built with Blogger.com) --PudgyMoogle 18:21, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

title: User:PudgyMoogle


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe Adams

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Keep; nominator withdrew nomination and there has not been a voter since. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:13, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Joe Adams
The subject is supposedly a "well known" mercenary who led the Contras, was later pardoned, and is now a friend of Arnold Schwarzenegger. None of this checks out and there are no references. Willmcw 18:20, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Once we got the name right and found a few sources there appears to be enough verifiable information about this person to keep the article. I'm going to remove the VfD tag from the article, but leave this here as it is tied in with two other VfD nominations. Cheers, -Willmcw 20:01, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Since there have been no votes, and since the subject seems have a verifiable and notable history, I am withdrawing this VfD. I hope we can get all of this info into the article. Cheers, -Willmcw 19:58, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, it's been less than two hours, so hardly surprising there haven't been any votes ;) Radiant_* 10:40, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
Kiki Musampa

Kizito Musampa (born 20 July 1977) is a former professional footballer who played as a left winger.

Musampa had a journeyman career, taking in notable spells at AFC Ajax, Bordeaux, Malaga CF, Atlético Madrid and Manchester City. Born Zaire, he earned 28 caps representing the Netherlands at under-20 and under-21 levels. He was well known for his pace and free-kicks.

Ajax and Bordeaux
Born in Kinshasa, Zaire, now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Musampa first started off in the famous AFC Ajax youth academy where he played a total of 31 games in two seasons and scored six goals. Which a goal scored against NAC Breda, was the first Ajax goal in the new stadium, the Johan Cruyff Arena. He subsequently signed on for Girondins Bordeaux in 1997 to further his experience in the hope to be selected for the Netherlands national team competing in the 1998 FIFA World Cup although he was overlooked by then coach Guus Hiddink.

Málaga and Atlético
After spending two seasons at the French club, he decided to move on to Spanish club Málaga CF where he played 94 games and scored a total of 22 goals in four seasons. In 2003, he was transferred to Atlético Madrid for €3 million on a five-year contract, a year before his Málaga contract was due to expire, in what he viewed as a potentially good career move. In his first season with the club, he played 26 matches and scored two goals although in the following season, he was relegated to the substitutes' bench and only scraped together eight games in 2004.

Manchester City
In January 2005, Musampa moved to Manchester City of the Premier League on loan after becoming a fringe player at Atlético. In his first six months, he scored three goals in 14 games; his first City goal was a "spectacular volley" in the last-minute which was the winner against Liverpool and gave Stuart Pearce his first win as City manager, while he also scored goals against Aston Villa in a 2-1 victory, and an equaliser against Middlesbrough which wasn't enough to help City qualify for the 2005–06 UEFA Cup.

In June 2005 Musampa agreed up to stay at Manchester City for a second season. The Dutchman started the new season as a regular first team player, but lost his first team place in December, after which he played irregularly, with the majority of his appearances being in central midfield. At the end of the 2005–06 season he returned to Atlético. His nickname at City was 'Chris'...

Trabzonspor and AZ
On 30 August 2006, Musampa signed a three-year contract for Turkish club Trabzonspor on a free transfer.

After being released from Trabzonspor, Musampa trained with English Premiership side Sunderland for a period but ultimately was not signed by the club. After returning to the Netherlands, Musampa trained with Eredivisie outfit AZ. In November 2007, he signed a contract at the club for the rest of the season, but he was released from his contract on 1 January 2008.

FC Seoul
After an unsuccessful trial with Toronto FC of Major League Soccer he signed a two-year contract with K-League side FC Seoul in March 2008. His stay in South Korea was brief, as he made just three league appearances and two League Cup appearances for the club before the two parties agreed to mutually terminate his contract in June 2008.

Willem II
On 14 March 2009, Musampa returned to professional football signing for Willem II Tilburg in the Netherlands.

Metz
In September 2009 the winger went on trial with French side FC Metz, scored one goal in a friendly match, but the club did not sign him in the end.

He eventually announced his retirement from professional football.

International career
Musampa was a member of the Netherlands U20 team at the 1995 FIFA World Youth Championship, playing all three group matches, the team did not proceed past the group stage. Musampa went on to be a key player for the Netherlands Under-21s and achieved 25 caps, scoring 8 goals, he is currently in the top 10 players for both caps and goals at that level. His form whilst on loan at Manchester City earned him a call-up to the Netherlands squad to play Romania and Finland but he played in neither game.

Honours
Ajax
 * Intercontinental Cup: 1995
 * UEFA Champions League: 1994-95
 * UEFA Super Cup: 1995
 * Eredivisie: 1994–95, 1995-96
 * Dutch Supercup: 1995

Bordeaux
 * Division 1: 1998-99

Málaga
 * UEFA Intertoto Cup: 2002

title: Kiki Musampa


text: Category:Subdivisions of South Korea

title: Category:Subdivisions of South Korea


text:
User talk:Geekking

Please stop adding links to talkabouvoip.com. Your only contributions here are to spam your site. I went there and there are almost no posts in the forums, and little info on the site. Wikipedia is not a tool for self-promotion. If you add the link one more time, you'll be blocked from editing here. Rhobite 18:22, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

You have been temporarily blocked from editing Wikipedia for linking to commercial sites. If you wish to make useful contributions, you are welcome to come back after the block expires. -- Rhobite 19:21, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I see this isn't the only Wiki you've taken to spamming. You've been blocked from editing for three days now. Rhobite June 28, 2005 07:12 (UTC)

title: User talk:Geekking


text:
User talk:Mhare40

Hey! I noticed your edits of some of the classical pianists' articles. We certainly need more active users working on this subject, so - welcome to Wikipedia :) --Missmarple 18:22, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the welcome. I've only recently discovered that I could contribute to Wikipedia and it's a chance to add the little I know to the subject, especially something I'm passionate about such as Classical Music and the piano.  However, learning all the conventions in posting to Wikipedia is taking some time and practice to learn.   --Mhare40 21:06, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Welcome!
Greetings, and welcome to Wikipedia. Always delighted to see someone else editing in the classical music sections.

If you haven't found out already, pretty much anything you could hope to read about editing Wikipedia is linked at the Community portal. (The Simplified Ruleset is a good overview, though.) I find the five pillars particularly helpful. I hope you stay around! Have you discovered WikiProject Composers yet? A bunch of us are gradually trying to improve this corner of Wikipedia. --RobertG ♬ talk 07:52, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * And another welcome from another musician; nice work so far. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 06:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Categorizing classical pianists
Hello, Mhare40! I remember that you edited some classical pianists' articles in the past, so I would like you to know about this: Categories for deletion/Log/2006 February 11. I do feel that the 'Classical pianists' category works just perfect right now and would like to keep it just as it is now. Vote if you wish :) --Missmarple 11:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Cecile Ousset
A template has been added to the article Cecile Ousset, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. 172.151.95.8 16:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Mhare40! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 2 of the articles that you created  are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. Please note that all biographies of living persons must be sourced. If you were to add reliable, secondary sources to these articles, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the list:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 23:34, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Cécile Ousset -
 * 2) Nikolai Demidenko -

title: User talk:Mhare40


text:
User talk:Vikreykja/KWVI

I don't understand what this article is doing here. Allstar86 18:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It's hiding →Vik Reykja 18:39, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It appears under the category Airports of California. Can this be fixed? Allstar86 07:08, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep. Sorry about that (didn't notice it). →Vik Reykja 05:11, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Vikreykja/KWVI


text:
Talk:Milarepa

Untitled
How should we handle tibetan names like Jetsun Milarepa? My feeling is that especially where there is a conventional English spelling that should be used, and there is a case for using eg Wylie transliteration as well (as for example Pinyin is used in articles on Chinese topics as well as more common anglicized spellings, but what about wiriting it in Tibetan script, possibly as well? Billlion 18:25, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I must add that Pinyin has been adopted so well in the English language that most Anglicized spellings are now obsolete. Even then, Anglicized spellings that are more common are still used on Wikipedia, e.g. Confucius, Mencius, etc. If we can do this for Pinyin, we can do this for Wylie, which is basically not used to name people or places outside of linguistics-related contexts. -- ran (talk) 00:33, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Doch, all academic papers on history, religion, and philosophy also use Wylie and only Wylie. It just so happens that fewer Anglophones read Tibetan than Chinese. While I agree that words that are well established yak, Dalai Lama, possible Milarepa, should be spelled as they are in English, the number of such words must be admitted to be no more than a dozen. Any one who claims that there is a well established spelling for Sangs-rgyas Rgya-mtsho in English is simply pulling my leg. Is it not better to use the Wylie before an erroneous spelling does in grain itself into English. --Nathan hill 13:52, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I also repeat this post for the Benefit of clarity (since it is mainly about Mila), and refer interested readers to the Tibet discussion page.

 * You seem not to have minded my other changes to the Mi-la-ras-pa article, and indeed appear to have kept all of the Wylie (just moved to parentheses). So perhaps you did not find my edit so obnoxious as you have here implied. I admit I had qualms about Milarepa, because while not as well established as Dalai Lama it is certainly better established than Shigatse. If the encyclopedia had all of the Tibetan articles under the correct spelling, with ad hoc alternative spellings on redirect pages, or in parentheses this would seem far more scientifically acurate and truthful than to do the opposite. Those people who perfer incorrect spellings would sill be able to find their articles and although their innocent eyes would be exposed to the preceived infelicity which is the truth of Tibetan phonology, they could also sill see how these words are pronounced by ignorami.

 * p.s. I should point out that although Milarepa is well known Thöpaga (Thos-pa dga') is not, and how do you expect English speakers, who have no dierises (except in words like naiev where it has a different function) in their language to know what you mean by that diacritic.
 * p.s. I must be given some credit for not changing Gengis Khan to Činggis Qaɣan which is after all the correct spelling. --Nathan hill 13:52, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Milarepa Movie
I removed a link to the milarepa movie but it was just re-added. I had removed it as promotional. But I'd like other's opinions on this as well. The movie does present a traditional view of the biography of milarepa and I personally think it's a beautiful film, well executed, visually stunning, and not particularly controversial in its view. But I'm also wary of link spam and promotion on the Wikipedia generally. What do you think? Include it? Exclude it? If I don't hear any additional thoughts I may just remove it again after some time. - Owlmonkey (talk) 20:08, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe create article "Milarepa (movie)" and add "otheruses" at the beginning?--Tadeusz Dudkowski (talk) 11:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Milarepa and the demons
Hi Owlmonkey, what is to be said about that link here [http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/simm.htm Inviting the demon. (Milarepa, Tibetan Buddhism)(The Shadowissue)] Judith Simmer-Brown, Parabola Vol.22 No.2 (Summer 1997) pp.12-18 ?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.72.27.48 (talk) 10:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

 * could be used as a citation to add something about milarepa? - Owlmonkey (talk) 03:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, most probably. It can be used as an external link, too. that's what I did. Austerlitz -- 88.75.92.10 (talk) 05:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Well I think it's more boarder-line as an external link. Have you read the WP:EL guidelines recently? I take the guideline to suggest that external links about the subject are ok if they're encyclopedic in nature. But when they just describe a particular aspect or add a piece of information, it's better to add what they point out in the article itself and use them as a citation instead. Otherwise, we would just include all citation sources as external links. So there is some kind of distinction between what is linked to in the external link section and what is a citation. I love Professor Simmer-Brown's writing, but that article she wrote is I think more of a citation source than an encyclopedic summary of Milarepa's life. But I leave it up to you. - Owlmonkey (talk) 20:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Thank you. The following citation
 * " Having proclaimed the fearlessness which he had discovered in his

practice, Milarepa followed the training given him by his guru. He            invited the demons to stay with him and to receive his hospitality. He also challenged them to a friendly contest of teachings. Ye ghosts and demons, enemies of the Dharma, I welcome you today! It            is my pleasure to receive you! I pray you, stay; do not hasten to            leave; We will discourse and play together. Although you would be            gone, stay the night; We will pit the Black against the White Dharma, And see who plays the best. Before you came, you vowed to            afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"
 * is just too long. Additionally the whole story -which to me has been the core of Milarepa's accomplishment- should be inserted into the article somehow. It is lacking.
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.68.164 (talk) 09:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

the red link the four karmas still does not work.
 * Austerlitz -- 88.72.22.81 (talk) 15:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

In case somebody wants to produce a wikilink referring to the four karmas: Mahakala, The Mahakala and the Four Karmas of Transformation, [http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/simm.htm Inviting the demon. (Milarepa, Tibetan Buddhism)(The Shadowissue)] Judith Simmer-Brown, Parabola Vol.22 No.2 (Summer 1997) pp.12-18.
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.65.253 (talk) 07:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi again. I humbly disagree that the demon story is at the core of his accomplishment. I do see it, however, as an excellent teaching on how tantric buddhism leans into emotional discord instead of renouncing emotionality. if you see the demons as aspects of one's own mind, there is a natural tendency to deny and push those aspects of one's self away. we don't like to see our shadow side, as jung suggested, but instead we deny it. yet here milarepa is saying to invite these aspects of ourself that we usually deny and overcome our fear of them, and low and behold they disappear on their own - it removes the energy that we've been giving them - except for the very last one which we have to put our very head into its mouth and offer ourselves up. I suspect that last demon represents ego-clinging itself, and reaching complete enlightenment requires overcoming that clinging to self. But however you interpret the story, it is a famous one and sums up quite a lot of the tantric view in my opinion concerning emotions. I don't think the four karmas relate particularly to that story though, aside from seeing activity as non-dual. - Owlmonkey (talk) 17:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that Milarepa played with himself while pitting the black against the white dharma. But one never knows. Maybe his black magic/sorcery-dharma played and discussed with his white magic/buddhist-karma. Is this tantric?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.65.253 (talk) 18:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

 * It's tantric to see that the common thread of continuity (tantra) is beyond good and bad, black and white, that within all experience there is wisdom and the very nature of mind. true renunciation is complete openness to experience, beyond accepting and rejecting specific experiences. - Owlmonkey (talk) 20:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Buddha Shakyamuni has rejected the influence of Mara because he was convinced that he/she wanted to prevent him from reaching his goal. But he has not been a tantric, has he not? Austerlitz -- 88.75.215.112 (talk) 11:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Well the official statement from the tantric traditions is that the Buddha taught tantra from the beginning, but I don't know of any academic / scholarly views that support that. However, the sentiment I think is compatible with the story of his overcoming the four Mara's (or four challenges of Mara), if you see the four Mara's as arising from one's own mind. Pride, Lust, etc. Buddha overcame them not by pushing them away, but by not engaging them or rather by transmuting them (in the case of anger / arrows for example). So that's quite compatible to the story of the demons in the cave I think. Same principle. - Owlmonkey (talk) 16:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Well Owlmonkey, let's try to talk a bit about the content/meaning of black and white Dharma. Do you know sort of glossary giving an explanation of the buddhist meaning? (What is this Extract from the autobiography of the Fifth Dalai Lama called Dukulai Gosang, Volume Kha, Lhasa Publication? black or white? or someother?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 11:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Jomolungma —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.91.178 (talk) 10:01, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I've never heard of "black and white dharma" particularly. Though protector practices are pretty gothic to my western cultural background, their intention as far as I can tell is not harmful but more transmuting and waking up sharply when obscuration and obstacles are the most thick. For example, when someone is losing everything from alcoholism, tough love is necessary to help them snap out of it. One must tell them directly how much they're hurting those around them, the damage that they're doing, and maybe even set tough boundaries or refuse to reinforce or enable their behavior. So gentle support and encouragement is not effective in situations like that, tough love is necessary. But to be dharmic, it can only be out of love not selfishness. At least that is my rough understanding. - Owlmonkey (talk) 17:25, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm not able and I don't want to answer to your words right now; . Milarepa didn't speak english, so he has not said Black dharma or White dharma. His language was Tibetan, was it not? What has he said then?

Via footnote no.10 Simmer-Brown refers to "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley".

(7.) This is drawn from "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley," Chapter I of Chang, op. cit., pp. 1-7. (8.) Ibid., p. 1. (9.) Ibid., p. 7. (10.) Ibid.

I never heard about this story before. is it western? Can you find it?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.200.77 (talk) 08:44, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe these links might be helpful,,.
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.200.77 (talk) 08:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Milarepa
http://lamapalmo.googlepages.com/lifestoriesofthegreatfemalemasters - this link is not welcome to the mainpage.
 * Some female disciples of Milarepa:
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.71.123 (talk) 20:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

 " Main Students

The eight great sons:

* Je Gampopa, the sun-like son * Rechungpa, the moon-like son

and the star-like sons:

* Ngendzong Repa Jangchub Gyalpo * Repa Shiwa Ö * Seban Repa * Kyira Repa * Drigom Repa * Repa Sangye Khyab"

Do you know the meaning of "sun-like son" and "moon-like son"?

By the way, here you can find "The four highly developed daughters:

* Tshonga Rechungma * Nyanang Sale O   * Chung Paldar Bum * Peta Gonkyi".

 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.204.73 (talk) 11:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Here is the story milarepa meets paldarbum, and here  milarepa meets rechungma and here  the story of sale öo. These are the first three of the above mentioned "highly developed daughters".

I don't remember who and why deleted my weblink to LamaPalmos "Some female disciples of Milarepa". Is it a blog, that is a private discussion site?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.70.184 (talk) 14:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I've looked it up on the history page,, but I don't understand the reason given.
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.70.184 (talk) 15:34, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I think googlepages web pages are banned generally from the EL links section, but i don't know the history of that. a few other domains are similarly banned i've noticed. - Owlmonkey (talk) 17:09, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Peta Gonkyi was Milarepas sister,,.
 * Austerlitz -- 88.72.7.230 (talk) 17:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Deleted ("Milarepa about himself in old age")
The name of my clan is Khyungpo, my family name is Josay, and my name is Milarepa. In my youth I committed black deeds. In maturity I practiced innocence. Now, released from both good and evil, I have destroyed the root of karmic action and shall have no reason for action in the future. To say more than this would only cause weeping and laughter. What good would it do to tell you? I am an old man. Leave me in peace.' why?
 * Austerlitz -- 88.72.18.42 (talk) 20:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Is this somehow the "wrong" Karmapas Face?
 * -- 88.72.18.42 (talk) 20:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you are asking. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:26, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I get it now. I didn't delete anything. I just moved the quote to his young life section since the info was more relevant there. A random quote floating under a sub-heading looks weird. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

 * According to my taste it didn't look weird, but we can leave it where you put it. Actually I thought you deleted the whole of it, being fixed to the place I had put it I even didn't check some other place this time. But, tell me, does the citation mean "lamenting" to you? You write: "Milarepa later lamented his evil ways in his older years."
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.221.68 (talk) 09:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The four enlightened activities

 * The Black Crown of the Karmapas see also: The Four Enlightened Activities: "The prongs of the vajra represent the four enlightened activities of pacifying, enriching, magnetizing and destroying."

 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.210.225 (talk) 18:32, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

googlebooks Von Mi-la-ras-pa,Garma C. C. Chang]
 * http://books.google.de/books?id=y009AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA679&lpg=PA679&dq=%23+%23+Milarepa,+The+Hundred+Thousand+Songs+of+Milarepa,+translated+by+Garma+C.C.+Chang,&source=bl&ots=np16fXW9UW&sig=8TJrsX9b8SNpRFNVjIagF75jVWg&hl=de&ei=fBzOSvWBHJPGnAPI8qCPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false The hundred thousand songs of Milarepa

 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.64.202 (talk) 17:39, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Milarepa and the demons Here Simmer-Brown is quoting from the book of Chang, I think:

" Having proclaimed the fearlessness which he had discovered in his

practice, Milarepa followed the training given him by his guru. He           invited the demons to stay with him and to receive his hospitality. He also challenged them to a friendly contest of teachings. Ye ghosts and demons, enemies of the Dharma, I welcome you today! It           is my pleasure to receive you! I pray you, stay; do not hasten to           leave; We will discourse and play together. Although you would be           gone, stay the night; We will pit the Black against the White Dharma, And see who plays the best. Before you came, you vowed to           afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"

I wrote above: "Via footnote no.10 Simmer-Brown refers to "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley".

(7.) This is drawn from "The Tale of Red Rock Jewel Valley,"

Chapter I of Chang, op. cit., pp. 1-7. (8.) Ibid., p. 1. (9.) Ibid., p. 7. (10.) Ibid."

Or: is the Tale of the Red Rock Jewel Valley not part of the book?

''Before you came, you vowed to          afflict me. Shame and disgrace would follow If you returned with this vow unfulfilled.(10)"'' I am really impressed with this. Is this heavenly compassion?

 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.64.202 (talk) 17:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

NPOV
"Milarepa is famous for many of his songs and poems, in which he expresses the profundity of his realization of the dharma with extraordinary clarity and beauty."

Who says so? This is not NPOV. The last phrase should be deleted or attributed to a respected source.Rep07 (talk) 02:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

"Unconventional," and a general lack of references
hi, i know nobody's really paying attention to this article, but regardless i'd like to just question the purpose of the article's Unconventional section. not sure what exactly the significance is of this single anecdote -- seems very out of place to me. this article is already a little bit questionable, so any inspection could result in improvement. would somebody with more knowledge on the subject like to comment?

also, while we're at it, i would like to encourage fellow editors to research the claims in this article and provide sources to match them; or, if it's found to be totally unsourceable, at least stick it with a.

--Foodlegs (talk) 16:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Milarepa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061117225316/http://www.runpunxsyrun.org/marathonmonks.html to http://www.runpunxsyrun.org/marathonmonks.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:17, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Issues
This article has been tagged for neutrality, yet no rationale has been given. Therefore, I'll remove that tag. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!  06:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Jetsun Milarepa.jpg

title: Talk:Milarepa