text:
Economic collapse

Economic collapse, also called economic meltdown, is any of a broad range of bad economic conditions, ranging from a severe, prolonged depression with high bankruptcy rates and high unemployment (such as the Great Depression of the 1930s), to a breakdown in normal commerce caused by hyperinflation (such as in Weimar Germany in the 1920s), or even an economically caused sharp rise in the death rate and perhaps even a decline in population (such as in countries of the former USSR in the 1990s). Often economic collapse is accompanied by social chaos, civil unrest and a breakdown of law and order.

Cases
There are few well documented cases of economic collapse. One of the best documented cases of collapse or near collapse is the Great Depression, the causes of which are still being debated. "To understand the Great Depression is the Holy Grail of macroeconomics." —Ben Bernanke (1995)

Bernanke's comment addresses the difficulty of identifying specific causes when many factors may each have contributed to various extents.

Past economic collapses have had political as well as financial causes. Persistent trade deficits, wars, revolutions, famines, depletion of important resources, and government-induced hyperinflation have been listed as causes.

In some cases blockades and embargoes caused severe hardships that could be considered economic collapse. In the U.S. the Embargo Act of 1807 forbade foreign trade with warring European nations, causing a severe depression in the heavily international trade-dependent economy, especially in the shipping industry and port cities, ending a great boom. The Union blockade of the Confederate States of America severely damaged the South's plantation owners; however, the South had little economic development. The blockade of Germany during World War I led to starvation of hundreds of thousands of Germans but did not cause economic collapse, at least until the political turmoil and the hyperinflation that followed. For both the Confederacy and Weimar Germany, the cost of the war was worse than the blockade. Many Southern plantation owners had their bank accounts confiscated and also all had to free their slaves without compensation. The Germans had to make war reparations.

Following defeat in war, the conquering country or faction may not accept paper currency of the vanquished, and the paper becomes worthless. (This was the situation of the Confederacy.) Government debt obligations, primarily bonds, are often restructured and sometimes become worthless. Therefore, there is a tendency for the public to hold gold and silver during times of war or crisis.

Effects of war and hyperinflation on wealth and commerce
Hyperinflation, wars, and revolutions cause hoarding of essentials and a disruption of markets. In some past hyperinflations, workers were paid daily and immediately spent their earnings on essential goods, which they often used for barter. Store shelves were frequently empty. A vivid example of it was seen in Armenia. During the collapse of the Soviet Union, Armenia experienced three major shocks during this early phase of transformation, resulting in hyperinflation and loss of huge part of commerce. First, the old central planning regime collapsed, and many big Armenian companies that had been developed to serve the Soviet Union lost their markets almost overnight. Second, as an energy importer, Armenia's terms of exchange deteriorated sharply as the price of imported energy soared dramatically compared to the prices of its exports. Third, the war in Nagorno-Karabakh was a huge burden on the economy, and it was followed by blockades and other economic disturbances, some of which continue to this day. As a result, by 1993, Armenia's GDP had fallen to just 47 percent of its 1990 level. However, by the middle of the 1990s, hyperinflation in Armenia had been tamed thanks to the tight collaboration of the government and the Central Bank of Armenia (CBA) in implementing strong monetary and fiscal policies. The average consumer price inflation was reduced from over 5,000% (1994) to 175% (1995). Armenia was, indeed, one of the region's true success stories. More stable foreign currencies, silver and gold (usually coins) were held and exchanged in place of local currency. The minting country of precious metal coins tended to be relatively unimportant. Jewelry was also used as a medium of exchange. Alcoholic beverages were also used for barter.

Desperate individuals sold valuable possessions to buy essentials or traded them for gold and silver.

In the German hyperinflation, stocks held much more of their value than paper currency. Bonds denominated in the inflating currency may lose most or all value.

Bank holidays, conversion or confiscation of accounts and new currency
During severe financial crises, sometimes governments close banks. Depositors may be unable to withdraw their money for long periods, as was true in the United States in 1933 under the Emergency Banking Act. Withdrawals may be limited. Bank deposits may be involuntarily converted to government bonds or to a new currency of lesser value in foreign exchange.

During financial crises and even less severe situations, capital controls are often imposed to restrict or prohibit transferring or personally taking money, securities or other valuables out of a country. To end hyperinflations a new currency is typically issued. The old currency is often not worth exchanging for new.

China 1852–70
The Taiping Rebellion followed by internal warfare, famines and epidemics caused the deaths of over 100 million and greatly damaged the economy.

Weimar Germany in the 1920s
Following Germany's defeat in World War I, political instability resulted in murders and assassinations of hundreds of political figures. (See: German Revolution of 1918–1919 and Kapp Putsch)

Germany's finances were heavily strained by the war and reparations in accordance with the Treaty of Versailles, leaving the government unable to raise enough taxation to operate and make war reparations. The government resorted to printing money to cover the shortfall, which resulted in major hyperinflation; one book on these events, which includes quotes and a few first hand accounts, is When Money Dies. The hyperinflation ended in December 1923, with government debt being cleared at the cost of ordinary citizens' savings.

Some believe that the hyperinflation of 1923 helped fuel the eventual rise of the Nazi party, and the rise of Hitler to power in 1933. Economists, however, tend to attribute Hitler's rise to the Deflation and the Great Depression beginning in 1929. Paul Krugman concluded that the 1923 hyperinflation didn’t bring Hitler to power, but the Brüning deflation and depression. Before 1929, the Nazi party had been actually in decline, receiving less than 3% of votes in the German federal election in 1928 (see election results of the Nazi Party).

The Great Depression of the 1930s
While arguably not a true economic collapse, the decade of the 1930s witnessed the most severe worldwide economic contraction since the start of the Industrial Revolution. In the US, the Depression began in the summer of 1929, soon followed by the stock market crash of October 1929. American stock prices continued to decline in fits and starts until they hit bottom in July 1932. In the first quarter of 1933, the banking system broke down: asset prices had collapsed, bank lending had largely ceased, a quarter of the American work force was unemployed, and real GDP per capita in 1933 was 29% below its 1929 value. The ensuing rapid recovery was interrupted by a major recession in 1937–38. The U.S. fully recovered by 1941, the eve of its entry in World War II, which gave rise to a boom as dramatic as the Depression that preceded it.

While there were numerous bank failures during the Great Depression, most banks in developed countries survived, as did most currencies and governments. The most significant monetary change during the depression was the demise of the gold standard by most nations that were on it. In the U.S., the dollar was redeemable in gold until 1933 when U.S. citizens were forced to turn over their gold (except for 5 ounces) for fiat currency (See: Executive Order 6102) and were forbidden to own monetary gold for the next four decades. Subsequently, gold was revalued from $20.67 per ounce to $35 per ounce. U.S. dollars remained redeemable in gold by foreigners until 1971. Gold ownership was legalized in the U.S. in 1974, but not with legal tender status.

As bad as the Great Depression was, it took place during a period of high productivity growth, which caused real wages to rise. The high unemployment was partly a result of the productivity gains, allowing the number of hours of the standard work week to be cut while restoring economic output to previous levels after a few years. Workers who remained employed saw their real hourly earnings rise because wages remained constant while prices fell; however, overall earnings remained relatively constant because of the reduced work week. Converting the dollar to a fiat currency and devaluing against gold ensured the end of deflation and created inflation, which made the high debt accumulated during the 1920s boom easier to repay, although some of the debt was written off.

The Eastern Bloc in the 1980s and 90s
During the 1980s, the Eastern Bloc, which relied on a highly centralized form of planned economy, experienced a decade-long period of stagnation from which it did not recover. The end of the decade saw revolutions and the fall of communist regimes throughout Central and Eastern Europe, and eventually in the Soviet Union (USSR) by 1991. The process was accompanied by a gradual but important easing of restrictions on economic and political behaviour in the late 1980s, including the satellite states, culminating with economic collapse and shock therapy in the 1990s. Even before Russia's financial crisis of 1998, Russia's GDP was half of what it had been in the early 1990s.

The collapse in the USSR was characterized by an increase in the death rate, especially by men over 50, with alcoholism a major cause. There was also an increase in violent crime and murder. The Russian population peaked in the 1990s and is lower today than two decades ago, as the demographics of Russia show.

A firsthand account of conditions during the economic collapse was told by Dmitry Orlov, a former USSR citizen who became a US citizen but returned to Russia for a time during the crisis.

Russian financial crisis of 1998
After more or less stabilizing after the disintegration of the USSR, a severe financial crisis took place in the Russian Federation in August 1998. It was caused by low oil prices and government expenditure cuts after the end of the Cold War. Other nations of the former Soviet Union also experienced economic collapse, although a number of crises also involved armed conflicts, like in the break-away region Chechnya. The default by Russia on its government bonds in 1998 led to the collapse of highly leveraged hedge fund Long Term Capital Management, which threatened the world financial system. The U.S. Federal Reserve organized a bailout of LTCM which turned it over to a banking consortium.

1998–2002 Argentine great depression
The depression, which began after the Russian and Brazilian financial crises, caused widespread unemployment, riots, the fall of the government, a default on the country's foreign debt, the rise of alternative currencies and the end of the peso's fixed exchange rate to the US dollar. The economy shrank by 28 percent from 1998 to 2002. In terms of income, over 50 percent of Argentines were poor and 25 percent, indigent; seven out of ten Argentine children were poor at the depth of the crisis in 2002.

By the end of November 2001, people began withdrawing large sums of dollars from their bank accounts, turning pesos into dollars, and sending them abroad, which caused a bank run.

The freeze enraged many Argentines who took to the streets of important cities, especially Buenos Aires. They engaged in protests.

The president De la Rúa eventually fled the Casa Rosada in a helicopter on 21 December 2001.

Zimbabwe economic crisis (2000-present)
Zimbabwe has had an economic crisis since the early 2000s with some periods of partial recovery inbetween. Hyperinflation peaked at an estimated 89.7 sextillion percent year-on-year in November 2008 then stabilising after the local currency was abandoned. In May 2020, annual inflation reached more than 800% following the reintroduction of the local currency, after which the government stopped releasing statistics as they had previously done over a decade earlier. GDP contracted from 2001 to 2008 and from 2018 to present.

Venezuela economic crisis (2013–present)
Since 2013, Venezuela has been suffering an economic crisis. It's the worst in Venezuelan history, caused by the economic policies of the president, Nicolás Maduro the successor of Hugo Chávez, the fall in oil prices and internal and external factors. Since 2014, Venezuela's GDP has been in recession, falling more 40%. The economy has collapsed, causing shortages of basics goods, economic downturn and hyperinflation since 2017. Also, there are drastic increases in the crime, corruption, poverty and hunger. Millions of Venezuelans have fled to neighboring countries.

Other economic trends
In Latvia, GDP declined more than 20% from 2008 to 2010, one of the worst recessions on record. In Greece, GDP declined more than 26% starting in 2008.

Doom loop
In economics, a doom loop is "a negative spiral that can result when banks hold sovereign bonds and governments bail out banks". It can lead to economic collapse.

In 2021, Italian and French banks increased their holdings of sovereign debt to slightly worrying levels, as a result of stimulus spending and monetary policy.

Austrian school
Some economists (i.e. the Austrian School, in particular Ludwig von Mises), believe that government intervention and over-regulation of the economy can lead to the conditions for collapse. In particular, Austrian theoretical research has been focused on such problems emanating from socialist forms of economic organization. This however is not a theory of economic collapse involving the breakdown of freely functioning financial markets; rather, the focus is on economic malfunction and crisis emanating from state control.

However, many Austrian economists also subscribe to what is called the "ABCT", or Austrian Business Cycle Theory. Economist Roger Garrison describes the bubble as merely a form of unsustainable boom (not a theory of all depressions), as Mises and F.A. Hayek did, despite their disagreements on the exact workings of it. The essential part of the theory is that it is inherently unsustainable to try to manipulate monetary policy to boost both investment and consumption; usually through interest rate manipulation and bond-buying and such. The "boom" was created by "malinvestments," as Mises called them; business decisions that are bad investments and unsustainable in the long run because lowering interest rates by padding the supply of money and credit will only work in the short-term, but will ultimately collapse because the government can only hold down interest rates so long before fear of inflation kicks in (and deflation comes at the peak of the business cycle), or they go into hyperinflation (which is completely outside the realm of the ABCT).

Georgescu-Roegen's theory of Earth's ever decreasing carrying capacity
Romanian American economist Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, a progenitor in economics and the paradigm founder of ecological economics, has argued that the carrying capacity of Earth—that is, Earth's capacity to sustain human populations and consumption levels — is bound to decrease sometime in the future as Earth's finite stock of mineral resources is presently being extracted and put to use; and consequently, that the world economy as a whole is heading towards an inevitable future collapse, leading to the demise of human civilisation itself.

Georgescu-Roegen is basing his pessimistic prediction on the two following considerations: Taken together, the Industrial Revolution in Britain in the second half of the 18th century has unintentionally thrust man's economy into a long, never-to-return overshoot-and-collapse trajectory with regard to the Earth's mineral stock. The world economy will continue growing until its inevitable and final collapse in the future. From that point on, ever deepening scarcities will aggravate social conflict throughout the globe and ultimately spell the end of mankind itself, Georgescu-Roegen conjectures.
 * According to his ecological view of 'entropy pessimism', matter and energy is neither created nor destroyed in man's economy, only transformed from states available for human purposes (valuable natural resources) to states unavailable for human purposes (valueless waste and pollution). In effect, all of man's technologies and activities are only speeding up the general march against a future planetary 'heat death' of degraded energy, exhausted natural resources and a deteriorated environment—a state of maximum entropy on Earth.
 * According to his social theory of 'bioeconomics', man's economic struggle to work and earn a livelihood is largely a continuation and extension of the biological struggle to sustain life and survive. This struggle manifests itself as a permanent social conflict that can be eliminated neither by man's decision to do so nor by the social evolution of mankind. Consequently, we are biologically unable to restrain ourselves collectively on a permanent and voluntary basis for the benefit of unknown future generations; the pressure of population on Earth's resources will only increase.

Georgescu-Roegen was the paradigm founder of ecological economics and is also considered the main intellectual figure influencing the degrowth movement. Consequently, much work in these fields is devoted to discussing the existential impossibility of allocating Earth's finite stock of mineral resources evenly among an unknown number of present and future generations. This number of generations is likely to remain unknown to us, as there is no way — or only little way — of knowing in advance if or when mankind will ultimately face extinction. In effect, any conceivable intertemporal allocation of the finite stock will inevitably end up with universal economic decline at some future point.

title: Economic collapse


text:
User talk:Diliff

Unless you specifically ask for me to reply on your talk page, I will reply here and assume that you will remember to check for the reply. :-)

Archive: Archive 1 - (26th September 2005 to 21st April 2006) Archive 2 - (22nd April 2006 to 29th August 2006) Archive 3 - (30th August 2006 to 17th May 2007) Archive 4 - (18th May 2007 to 18th April 2008) Archive 5 - (18th April 2008 to 26th February 2009) Archive 6 - (28th February 2009 to 18th June 2009) Archive 7 - (30th June 2009 to 31st January 2010) Archive 8 - (1st February 2010 to 21st January 2011) Archive 9 - (22nd January 2011 to 1st February 2012) Archive 10 - (16th February 2012 to 9th April 2013) Archive 11 - (9th April 2013 to 21st January 2014) Archive 12 - (21st January to 25th June 2014) Archive 13 - (25th June 2014 to 18th June 2015) Archive 14 - (19th June 2015 to 24th October 2017) Archive 15 - (25th October 2017 to 16th October 2019)

licensing for your photo of the colosseum
How do I find licensing for use of your photo of the colosseum? I'm a high school teacher, and I'd like to use the image for a poster for a play.

Thanks!

Elizabeth Tringali — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elizatringali (talk • contribs) 14:22, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Picture of the day
Greetings

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File: is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on November 27, 2019. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2019-11-27. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:31, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Picture of the day again!
Greetings

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File: is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on December 16, 2019. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2019-12-16. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:33, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Using your photo of Radcliffe Camera
Hi, I represent the Jane Austen Society of North America, a non-profit literary society. I would like to use your beautiful photo of the Oxford Radcliffe Camera for a tour brochure and a posting on our web site, www.jasna.org. I am able to provide appropriate attribution, specifically: Radcliffe Camera, Oxford, DAVID ILIFF. License: CC BY-SA 3.0. But I read that I also need to include a reproduction of the actual license. That will not fit on our brochure or even fit in well on the web page, can you give me permission to use the photo with the attribution alone? If I could figure out how to attach a pdf of the Publisher File to this kind of communication, I would be happy to do so. Can you please send me an email to claireqb07@yahoo.com, as I do not have a Wikipedia account. Many thanks for your help!

Claire Bellanti Past-President, JASNA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:2340:1900:50D1:60F4:EE80:94C0 (talk) 06:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Picture of the day
Greetings

Just to let you know that the Featured Picture File: is due to make an appearance as Picture of the Day on March 10, 2020. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2020-03-10. The set of four images will appear on that day. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:34, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Canterbury Cathedral
I have just used a crop of your great pic of the choir of Canterbury Cathedral in the Wikipedia article Gothic architecture. The choir of Canterbury was designed by William of Sens. Thank you for your super high quality images. Amandajm (talk) 21:10, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

can i get permission for this picture
i will need this picture for my exams that are coming up and i have included this picture in it if you could give full clearance for me using it then it would help me greatly

thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.251.31.132 (talk) 16:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Precious
You are recipient no. 2402 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Introduce
Hallo, Eabry All.M'I Heab Laive. Teak My Struggle Salute. -Gazi Chalauddin Rana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaziSRana (talk • contribs) 22:18, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Introduce
Hallo, Eabry All.M'I Heab Laive. Teak My Struggle Salute. -Gazi Chalauddin Rana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaziSRana (talk • contribs) 22:28, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Tower Bridge London
Hi Diliff,

Are we able to use this fabulous image on our blog?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tower_Bridge_London_Feb_2006.jpg

Many thanks, Dave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.248.18 (talk) 18:34, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

File:Portsmouth Cathedral Nicholson Organ, Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK - Diliff.jpg scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that the featured picture File:Portsmouth Cathedral Nicholson Organ, Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK - Diliff.jpg, which you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for August 8, 2020. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2020-08-08. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:40, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Hey!
Just wanted to say I hope you're doing well in this very awful time. Been a weird year. I guess I'm doing mostly okay. Will be glad when we can all move again, but... well, still editing images for featured pictures. Not much movement there of late, but then, people can't really go out and photograph right now. Been taking the opportunity to do some larger restorations. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.4% of all FPs 12:08, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Image Tower Bridge 2006
Hello David, i believe we used one of your images for a blog post back in 2015, the chap that did the blog is no longer working with us so we are not 100% sure where the image came from, but we assume it was from Wiki? The image was used in good faith with no intention of making money. The assumption was that all images on the Wiki commons files were free to use? To the point we are being taken to court by Fossick Picture for copyright infringement. The person taking us to court is a Mr Leopold Kamugyene the company Fossick is not registered in the uk so we dont know if they are fraudulent as they are registered in Estonia with an office in London. They are using your name to make the claim, if you could advise if the image does or does not have any copyright infringements on Wiki please. Sorry for this just we are a small company and we dont know if Fossick are just going around making scam claims on small vulnerable companies. My apologies if the image has copyrights, we assume the image was free to use, see our very basic blog: https://www.cnmonline.co.uk/blog/Tower_Bridge/

Thanks David — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinssimpson (talk • contribs) 13:06, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Did you ever receive a response from David? 80.229.190.70 (talk) 17:06, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Hhhhh
August

File:Notre-Dame Basilica Interior, Montreal, Canada - Diliff.jpg scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that the featured picture File:Notre-Dame Basilica Interior, Montreal, Canada - Diliff.jpg, which you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for October 16, 2020. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2020-10-16. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

File:St Cyprian's Church Sanctuary, Clarence Gate, London, UK - Diliff.jpg scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that the featured picture File:St Cyprian's Church Sanctuary, Clarence Gate, London, UK - Diliff.jpg, which you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for November 8, 2020. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2020-11-08. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:23, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

new to photography
Hey Diliff, sorry for bothering you with this but i'm new to photography and i loved your newyork skyline photo, i would like to know what should i use to take photos like that at night, specially panoramas, i'm using film so it would be kinda difficult to change the iso but any help would be nice and apreciated, Thanks in advance, Androzanitox — Preceding unsigned comment added by Androzanitox (talk • contribs) 19:57, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

File:Bath Abbey Eastern Stained Glass, Somerset, UK - Diliff.jpg scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that the featured picture File:Bath Abbey Eastern Stained Glass, Somerset, UK - Diliff.jpg, which you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for February 28, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-02-28. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Image reproduction request
Good Morning (Evening your time),

I have messaged you on facebook regarding reproduction of image request. Could you please email me dnihill01@gmail.com, so I can email you our request.

Kind regards Danielle

Fossick OU
Hi David

Really love your pictures, especially those you took around Oxford

Out of interest, are you associated with a company based in Estonia called fossick OU as they are claiming to be the license sellers of your images.

I notice your images are on here under GNU so just clarifying the copywrite for a fiend

I look forward to hearing back from you

Stay safe

Best regards

Alan

Alan Foster

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:13, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, Court 1 Interior, London, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for December 20, 2021. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2021-12-20. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:00, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

London 2023
Hello Diliff,

We've used one of your London panoramas here

https://www.transitstation.org/news

(following the artists' articles).

Your work is fabulous and maybe you can come to find us in the middle of your panorama in 2023.

I'll try to remember to come back here in case you reply. Failing that, you can email me at charlesryder@transitstation.org.

With kind regards, Charles Ryder

Also at https://amphibology.net — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rue aux Justes (talk • contribs) 18:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Wells Cathedral Arches, Somerset, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for June 22, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-06-22. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 14:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Wells_Cathedral_Stairs_to_Chapter_House,_Somerset,_UK_-_Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 22, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-07-22. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 14:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Wells Cathedral Organ, Somerset, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for August 22, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-08-22. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 14:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Trying to schedule sets a little more systematically. Probably shows. Hope you're well! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 14:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:St Cyprian's Church Nave, Clarence Gate, London, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 8, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-07-08. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 19:07, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:St Cyprian's Church Rood Screen, Clarence Gate, London, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 8, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-07-08. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 19:07, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Duke Humfrey's Library Interior 2, Bodleian Library, Oxford, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded or nominated, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 11, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-07-11. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 19:15, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Email
MichaelMaggs (talk) 03:45, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for Error: Invalid time. . A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/ Error: Invalid time.. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. 2022-09-23 If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 17:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for Error: Invalid time. . A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/ Error: Invalid time.. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. 2022-10-23 If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.8% of all FPs 17:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Re: Use of your image of Rafael Nadal
Hi, is there some way to reach you that is not Facebook?

We would like to use the image in a children's almanac. If we use the given attribution close to the image and put the entire url on the image copyright information page, that should be fine, right? Thanks so much. - a book publisher

103.214.60.144 (talk) 21:15, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

NHinckxt (talk) 21:02, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Joss bay image
Hi

We have received a message from a company requesting that we pay a large sum of money for using your Wikimedia image of Joss bay in a post about dog friendly beaches in Broadstairs. We are a small veterinary practice in Broadstairs and were quite alarmed by the letter, as the image is available on Wikimedia which is copyright free. Can you confirm that Fossick pictures is acting on your behalf?

Many thanks Hazel 80.229.190.70 (talk) 11:23, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Joss bay image
Hi We have received a message from a company requesting that we pay a large sum of money for using your Wikimedia image of Joss bay in a post about dog friendly beaches in Broadstairs. We are a small veterinary practice in Broadstairs and were quite alarmed by the letter, as the image is available on Wikimedia which is copyright free. Can you confirm that Fossick pictures is acting on your behalf? Hazeom (talk) 13:16, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Grand Central Station Main Concourse Rectilinear projection Jan 2006.jpg
We have received a letter from a company requesting that we pay a large sum of money for using your Wikimedia image of Grand Central on a website that has been decommissioned. We are a small construction company and were quite alarmed by the letter, as the image is available on Wikimedia which is copyright free. Can you confirm that Pixsy is acting on your behalf? 96.57.89.242 (talk) 16:10, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Your access to AWB may be temporarily removed
Hello Diliff! This message is to inform you that due to editing inactivity, your access to AutoWikiBrowser may be temporarily removed. If you do not resume editing within the next week, your username will be removed from the CheckPage. This is purely for routine maintenance and is not indicative of wrongdoing on your part. You may regain access at any time by simply requesting it at WP:PERM/AWB. Thank you! — MusikBot II  talk  17:16, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Sydney Opera House - Dec 2008.jpg from Wikipedia
Dear Sir Could you tell me please Can I use this image (see link from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sydney_Opera_House_-_Dec_2008.jpg) without attribution in social media ads like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter etc. Albertartsruni (talk) 21:13, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Diliff is no longer active here, and generally does not respond to requests. Attribution is a licensing requirement for all of Diliff's photographs that you can find here, and if you re-use an image without attribution you will be in breach of the licence and will be infringing the photographer's copyright. MichaelMaggs (talk) 10:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

(Foto von DAVID ILIFF. License: CC BY-SA 3.0) Sydney Harbour Bridge at night
Hi David, I found your picture of the Sydney-Habour Bridge by Night on Wikipedia. I would like to ask a question: May we add the words "Eternity" to this picture? and publish it in our magazine ideenplus. We are a children's ministry and would like to publish children's story of Arthur Malcolm Stace - known as Mr. Eternity. Unfortunately, I did not find a usable picture with "Eternity" written on it (see this link: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2018/07/the-story-behind-sydneys-eternity.html). I would create a photomontage. May we use this image free of charge. Of course under the copyright note of her name. It would be nice if you could give us permission to print it.

With kind regards Manfred Fleischer KEB-Germany e. V. www.keb-de.org

You can reply to me briefly at manfred.fleischer@keb-de.org 62.246.86.154 (talk) 07:45, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Chichester Cathedral Choir, West Sussex, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for May 25, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-05-25. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! — Amakuru (talk) 21:30, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Use of photo of James Ward
Hi David - I represent the Dan Maskell Tennis Trust and am about to set up a charity auction for a experience involving James Ward and would like to use your photo please. Are you able to give me permission? Many thanks 80.168.196.8 (talk) 11:38, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Wells Cathedral
Can I use your photo for a class assignment on architecture with the following citation below the image? Iliff, D. (2014, April 30). Wells Cathedral in Somerset, England. Wikipedia, File: Wells Cathedral West Front Exterior ,UK."Photo by David Ilff. License: CC BY-SA 3.0" Retrieved Aug. 4, 2023, from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wells_Cathedral_West_Front_Exterior,_UK_-_Diliff.jpg Jholland5555 (talk) 16:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Temple Church
Dear David, I am publishing an article on Temple Church for which I would like to use your photograph of the chancel facing the nave: File:Temple Church 3, London, UK - Diliff.jpg. The journal that I am publishing in, Immediations (The Courtauld's non-profit journal that publishes research of recent graduates and early career scholars), has asked me if I could ask you to sign an image permissions form. I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me with this. If you are happy to sign in the (very brief!) form, I can send you the form via email. Please let me know if you require any additional information. Thank you! SophiaDum (talk) 09:31, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Trafalgar Square Tree
Dear David We used an image of the Trafalgar Square Tree under a Creative Commons licence but inadvertently did not provide the correct attribution. We apologise for this oversight. However, we have now received an email from Pixy with an extremely large retroactive licensing fee for an image used on a web page which is now archived. We are a small publishing and events company doing our best to recover from the devastating impact of covid on our business. We are willing to include the correct attribution but would request some flexibility in the licence fee. Could you also confirm that Pixy is acting on your behalf and that this is not a spam or phishing email? Many thanks Character Pub (talk) 08:57, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Ely Cathedral Lady Chapel, Cambridgeshire, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for January 20, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2024-01-20. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! — Amakuru (talk) 21:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

London_Thames_Sunset_panorama_ _Feb_2008
Dear David,

We used an image of the London_Thames_Sunset_panorama_ _Feb_2008 for a brief period on our LinkedIn page as a banner, but inadvertently did not provide the correct attribution. We apologise for this oversight. I was not aware that the image is licensed to you and as soon as we became aware, we immediately removed the image.

However, we have received an email from Pixy with an extremely large retroactive licensing fee for an image used on a web page which is now archived. We are a small advisory company who gets less than 100 visits per year on our LinkedIn page.

Could you please first confirm that Pixy is acting on your behalf and that this is not a spam or phishing email? Pixsy have been unwilling to provide any evidence that they are acting for you in spite of repeated requests. No contracts with you have been shared and that leads me to believe that Pixsy are making a fraudulent claim using your name.

The case reference that Pixsy has quoted is 002-203834.

Thanks, Snbalaji2 (talk) 14:43, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Hereford Cathedral Image
Dear Mr Lliff,

I have recieved a letter from a company demanding quite a substanial amount of money for using your image and not displaying your information clearly. In asking the company for more details they tend to respond with quite abrubt unhelpful information. It has meant we have removed the image from our website, which is a shame as it is a stunning image but the last thing we want to do is use an image without permission. As a small company we rely on artists like yourself who are kind enough to allow people to use their images and we are very careful to check licenses to make sure we are using them correctly and would of course correct anything if contacted.

Would you be able to confirm if the company contacting us are indeed legitimate as the correspondence does come across a lot like spam. If you do not have any notification of this case and a company acting on your behalf, I would happily open up a discussion about putting the image back on our website in a way which would be of agreement to you.

I am sorry to bother you with this and appreciate your time.

Yours sincerely Andrew Amgnholidays (talk) 17:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Westminster Cathedral image
Good morning David,

I hope you're well. My name is Mark Brierley, I am the Head of Membership and Communications for The Royal Society of Musicians of Great Britain. We are a charity which helps musicians unable to work because of accident, illness, stress or anxiety, by providing grants for medical treatments.

We have been contacted by the company Pixsy with a copyright claim, regarding the use of your wonderful photograph of Westminster Cathedral at dusk ( https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Westminster_Cathedral_at_Dusk,_London,_UK_-_Diliff.jpg ), which we recently used to accompany a news article about the Festival of St Cecilia.

As far as I can tell, the image is subject to a creative commons license and no fees should be due, but Pixsy are asking for an exorbitant license fee so we have removed the article from our website (www.rsmgb.org)

We are a small charity that can ill-afford this fee, so we would ask if there is anything that can be done by you to waive the fee, please? As an organisation that is here to protect people that work in the creative industries, we absolutely recognise the need for artists to be fairly compensated for their work, so if you could please clarify whether or not you expect licensing fees from this image, and that Pixsy are acting on your behalf, that would be great help.

Many Thanks,

Mark Brierley Mook200 (talk) 10:25, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

St Albans Cathedral image
Dear David, We used your image of St Alban’s Cathedral to advertise a small pilgrimage there last September and the image remained on our news feed. We understand that this image is free to use but we failed to display the correct attribution for which we offer our apologies. This error was pointed out by a company called Pixy who are asking for payment of a licence fee of £450. We are a small charity – a local church – and can ill afford such an unusual expense. Can you confirm that this is not a scam? Initially the company gave an address in East Finchley, London, and then they amended it to the US. Are they genuinely acting for you? Yours, Philip MaryFinchley (talk) 20:22, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Use of Pixsy and Fossick
Hello David, can you confirm whether the companies Pixsy and/or Fossick have acted on your behalf to request payment for use of your photographs? Please respond on-wiki. Thank you. Nosferattus (talk) 19:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

ANI notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Geardona (talk to me?) 15:48, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

360 degree image of the Piccadilly Arcade taken in June 2009.
Dear David,

I would like to use your photograph of the Piccadilly Arcade for a small book I am writing on my Aunt, Margaret Hermione Mackenzie. She managed an outlet in the Arcade in the late 50s and early 60s selling scottish tartans, cashmere jerseys and scottish silver. I would like to give the reader a feel of what the Piccadilly Arcade looked looks like. From what I see I do not think the overall appearance has changed much since she the period 1950/60. Under the photograph would appear the words Photo by DAVID ILIFF. License: CC BY-SA 3.0

Please let me know if this is possible?

Kind regards, Mark 91.89.169.177 (talk) 12:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Mark, yes that's perfectly fine. Thanks for checking. Diliff (talk) 13:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

== Dear David, I would like to use your beautiful photograph of the Plaza Virgen de los Reyes, Seville, in a novel where one of my protagonist's home town is Sevilla (she has a poster in her apartment, showing this view). In the credits I would use the following: Weitwinkelansicht der Plaza Virgen de los Reyes, Sevilla – Wikipedia Commons (Plaza Virgen de los Reyes, Seville, Spain - Sep 2009.jpg); Photo by DAVID ILIFF. Lizenz: CC BY-SA 3.0. Please let me know if this is possible. Kind regards, Christoph ==

Dear David, I would like to use your beautiful photograph of the Plaza Virgen de los Reyes, Seville, in a novel where one of my protagonist's home town is Sevilla (she has a poster in her apartment, showing this view). In the credits I would use the following: Weitwinkelansicht der Plaza Virgen de los Reyes, Sevilla – Wikipedia Commons (Plaza Virgen de los Reyes, Seville, Spain - Sep 2009.jpg); Photo by DAVID ILIFF. Lizenz: CC BY-SA 3.0. Please let me know if this is possible. Kind regards, Christoph 158.169.40.25 (talk) 08:09, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hi Diliff,

This is to let you know that File:Salisbury Cathedral Nave, Wiltshire, UK - Diliff.jpg, a featured picture you uploaded, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for July 18, 2024. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2024-07-18. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! :Jay8g [ V•T•E ] 21:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Diliff


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Homosexual Cakewalk

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was speedy deleted by Infrogmation. - Mailer Diablo 14:39, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Homosexual Cakewalk
Prank. Was labelled as speedy.
 * Delete. Lupo 09:12, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, nonsense. Megan1967 11:04, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, of course. Funny, though. :-) BJAODN — Pladask 11:38, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Nateji77 13:46, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete -dvs- 13:54, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN. Funny. 172.151.167.19 22:54, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy deleted; prank vandalism -- Infrogmation 05:35, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Elite Butt-O-Matic Syncopators from Planet Homo

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was speedy deleted by Infrogmation. - Mailer Diablo 14:39, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Elite Butt-O-Matic Syncopators from Planet Homo
Prank. Was labelled as speedy. Delete. Lupo 09:12, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, nonsense. Megan1967 11:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Amusing, but delete. :-) — Pladask 11:40, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Four neurons and a high school education = basic teen humor. Delete as a prank. Geogre 18:38, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy deleted, obvious prank/vandalism. -- Infrogmation 05:26, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Ordination

Ordination of women and on the ordination of homosexuals
I have just removed the sections on the ordination of women and on the ordination of homosexuals because they are entirely and unsalvageably POV. While such sections do have a place in an expanded article on ordination, the text I have removed was little more than a polemic against religions that do not ordain women and/or homosexuals.

The "online ordination" section began with the sentence "The non-authoritarian religious denominations such as Spiritual Humanism, and the Universal Life Church prefer to empower their clergy by minimizing the impediments to those that feel the calling to make a spiritual connection to the cosmos." This implies that religions that do not practice online ordination are "authoritarian," which the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines as "of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority." Clearly, this is POV. The rest of the section sounds like a sales pitch: "Reducing the barriers to performing religious ceremonies these denominations encourage those who within the general population to realize spiritual experience. By enabling friends or relatives to perform ceremonies like marriages, organizations that offer online ordination demystify and integrate religious understanding into lives of the otherwise nonreligious public." However reasonable or unreasonable it may be to characterize online ordination as "demystify[ing] and integrat[ing] religious understanding," this obviously does not represent a neutral point of view.

Here is the "ordination of women" section reproduced in full:

''Most religions value and uphold the spiritual rights, abilities, and worth of women. Some reactionary and ultra-right wing denominations use gender to limit the number of members qualified for positions of religious leadership.''

''Among discriminatory churches the equal rights of all people to be ordained are denied. Religious groups like the Catholic Church, Mormons, Eastern Orthodoxy, Southern Baptist Convention, Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, and the Jehovah's Witnesses often site cryptic supernatural rules for their misogynist policies.''

The first paragraph equates "the spiritual rights, abilities, and worth of women" with the practice of ordaining women, which is also clearly POV. Loaded words like "reactionary" and "ultra-right wing" are, of course, inherently POV. "[T]he equal rights of all people to be ordained" is an assertion that belongs in a manifesto, not an encyclopedia. "Cryptic supernatural rules" is clearly used pejoratively, which represents another clear instance of POV, not to mention the explicit attack on "the Catholic Church, Mormons, Eastern Orthodoxy, Southern Baptist Convention, Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, and the Jehovah's Witnesses" as "misogynist."

And here is the "ordination of homosexuals" reproduced in full:

''Most mainstream denominations recognize and affirm the right of clergy who are consenting adults to enter into relationships with other consenting adults regardless of their sexual orientation or gender. These organizations usually take the position that homosexuality is an inherent trait in an individual's makeup and not a choice that can consciously be decided one way or the other.''

Groups that practice discrimination against women are most likely to also to attempt to enforce draconian codes against homosexuals in leadership positions.

It not only POV but probably inaccurate to claim that "[m]ost mainstream denominations recognize and affirm the right of clergy...to enter into relationships...regardless of their sexual orientation or gender," considering the controversy that periodically arises regarding homosexual clergy. In any case, the word "mainstream" is unambiguously used in concert with the terms "reactionary" and "ultra-right wing" to advance a POV. The statement that religious "organizations [that] usually take the position that homosexuality is...not a choice..." are the only "mainstream denominations" is further evidence of this POV.

Characterizing the practice of certain religions of ordaining only men as "discrimination women" is also POV, considering the highly negative connotations of the word "discrimination." "Draconian" is also a poor choice of words insofar as one wishes to maintain an NPOV.

While I personally sympathize (somewhat) with the positions advanced in the sections I removed, I find them completely at odds with Wikipedia's NPOV policy.

Iridius 09:13, 31 May 2005 (UTC) ____

Heck, I coulda' conveyed all the above in one small paragraphlet.

I have since created the Women as theological figures article - anything useful from the above can be transferred to it. Jackiespeel 22:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Anglican with apostolic continuity mention: must be a joke!
"In the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican and Oriental Orthodox churches, the ordination is the same thing as Holy Orders and can be adminstered only by a bishop in a line of succession of bishops dating back to the Apostles."

Which is of course false, since a bishop can only be created by the Pope (or three bishops explicitly tasked as such by the pope in rare cases related to travel difficulty). Since anglicans split from Rome, they have no bishops with apostolic continuity, as the pope refuses to bless them. Without bishops connected to Jesus via the apostolic succession, valid priests cannot be created. Therefore all henry8ist "priests" are false prophets and whatever they administer is invalid. Only catholic, orthodox, copts and possibly the Thomas-christians in India have apostolic continuity, any protestants definitely do not.

The very idea that woman can be a head of church show anglicanism is heresy and not connected to the apostles, because they were all male by Jesus' choice. The Old Testament clearly prescribes that priesthood must not be installed in any person whose male member is unnoticably short or hangs below the kneee and QEII certainly fails that test. When a new Pope is chosen in Rome, he is carefully inspected that he is indeed male and not a female impostor (there is a legend of an early medieval woman bribing her way to papacy and giving birth during the mass, although historians think it has no factual basis). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 (talk • contribs) 07:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmmm... you're not biased there or anything! No sir, there's no POV here! (Oh, and signing comments is usually a good idea)
 * Emerymat 23:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

 * As a Presbyterian, I'm curious: if Anglican bishops have no apostolic continuity because they split from Rome, how do Orthodox bishops? I'm not clear why the Act of Supremacy is considered to have been worse than the Great Schism.
 * Nyttend 15:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Not because they split from Rome, but because they have or have had irreconciliable doctrinal differences with the See of Peter, especially on the nature of the Episcopal order, but also on abortion, homosexuality and the ordaining of women. Even if the Patriarchs disagree on the primacy of the Petrine See, they all hold the same views on the nature of the Sacrament of Ordination.  Thus, their ordinations are valid. --Wtrmute (talk) 21:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

 * It is a little-known precedent of canon law that, when an area has no clergy to administer sacraments, priests have license to ordain bishops. This brings Anglicans and Methodists into the Apostolic Succession.  The Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury was validly elected by English bishops and John Wesley's ordination of a Methodist Bishop for America (a land with no priests to administer sacraments after the recall of Anglican priests) was based on the Alexandrian precedent of a presbyter (priest) ordaining a bishop in cases of emergency.  See Methodist Apostolicity  --ajgwm10 (talk) 11:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Surely with your mention here of a "precedent of canon law" you will cite something more than the speculations about Alexandria, right? You'll present actual western canon law, complete with details of what synod decided in what year with what actual text, right?  failing that...  Tb (talk) 20:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The Anglican clergy in America were almost all Loyalists during the War for Independence, and when the Continental Congress deemed that prayers for British leaders were to be prosecuted as acts of treason, almost all of them left, either for Canada or for Britain. The Church in America wasn't placed under Interdict (if the Anglican Communion even does that sort of thing).  Their members were still meant to receive the sacraments, and although baptism technically requires no clergy, the Eucharist DOES, and when all of your priests leave, you cannot obey Christ's commandment to "do this in remembrance of me."  Wesley saw this as an ecclesiastical emergency and consecrated Thomas Coke to the episcopate in 1784 and sent him to America, at a time when it wasn't certain the Anglican Church would make any effort to maintain its presence in America.  They did, eventually, reform the American province of the Church as the Episcopal Church, but this postdated the Constitution by three years and the consecration of the first Methodist bishops by six.  If the American and British churches had been more intentional about their separation, rather than letting the sacramental welfare of their American adherents hang in the balance, this extraordinary episcopal consecration would not have been necessary.

(talk) 22:45, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

 * So, there is no precedent to be mentioned. I'm fully aware of the history of the separation, which you seem not to be.  In no way to "almost all" leave.  Nor is the question whether we approve of John Wesley's actions.  Some did, some did not.  Presumably most Methodist do.  But that's really irrelevant.  There is no "little known" provision of canon law which sanctioned John Wesley's actions, and the question has nothing to do with the validity of Anglican orders, which, as already pointed out above, is concerned with the succession.

Tb (talk) 04:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Christian POV needs to be fixed
This article only discusses Christian ordination. It should equally discuss ordination in other religions, e.g. Buddhism. I have added a POV-because template to this effect. McDutchie 20:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Has now been broadened - template removed Paul foord 00:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I would further suggest that the Zen Buddhism ordination portion is backhandedly snide and condescending...*Another initiation document states that “not making an outward show of cultivating the precepts while inwardly not clinging to false views truly is to become a monk.”[2] These texts pondering the meaning of silence assert that the dead actually make ideal Zen monks...* I seriously doubt this to be the case. Assert? Really? They assert something ridiculous? Even if the theme was used of a corpse, as in becoming like a corpse, this has to be diciphered within context of the literature, not blandly turned into a bad joke. How about something more like "all I can see in all this Soto Zen stuff is..."? At least that would be more accurate, that the writer of that line was not only not being sympathetic to, but hostile towards, the ideas of what makes a good monk. In actuality, if this person had much penetrated the text, whoever he/she may be, I think they would have found an incredible flexibility and open-mindedness is what makes for a good Zen monk. I'm rewording this phrase out... 98.197.91.158 (talk) 03:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, I doubt I can do justice to it. I suggest that those with in-depth familiarity with these texts re-read this article passage and see if the implied sarcasm rings in their ears, also. If not, then I humbly bow out of it. Even if so, I still bow humbly out of it.98.197.91.158 (talk) 03:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The standards of the ordination in every lineage need to be addressed and ...
....HARMONIZED.

The reason is that in some lineages, ordained monks and nuns are not supposed to live together under one roof even for a married couple while other lineages have practiced in such a way. That is how conflicts happen in that one lineage accuses another being an occult.

What I would like to get clearified is that whether the celibacy is a compulsary practice for ordained monks and nuns of every lineage. If so, how can we get convinced that a married couple who also happen to be a monk and a nun live under one roof is maintaining celibacy and not breach the code of conduct?

I found one cited ref at

http://www.mindground.net/celibacy.html

which indicates that one of the meaning in celibacy for ordained buddhists is to "give up family"

In regardless whether to humane or not, this is how the tradition is. If someone is questioning the humanity on that issue, please raise their opinions and arguments with reasoning.

Also, I believe that with different lineages, the definition of celibacy is different. As in the case of pharmaceutical standard compliance issue discussed at Talk:ISO 9362, if one of the standards is contradict to another and make the dual-comliance impossible then either of the standards must be updated with a sound scientific backup, or just meet a single standard with a clear-cut label BEFORE serious UPGRADE. This opinion is only for "production" scale not for non-sale home-made practice though :-). Of course, even home-made for non-sale purposes but for pioneer/pilot research purposes should be open to professional audit, rather than to political enforcement with a bias attached in most cases.  However, anyone who is from outside is to do auditing, please do not forget to pay accommodation if they stay overnight.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.52.66.10 (talk) 04:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Community of Christ
This section is in need of clean up. It should focus only on ordination within the Community of Christ in so far as it is different from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I'm not even sure this section needs to remain the article at all. Dgf32 (talk) 21:23, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

NKT ordination
This section was heavily biased due to political reasons (the NKT opposes the Dalai Lama and so its ordination has been smeared), so it is good to add the other point of view for balance. (Truthbody (talk) 11:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC))

Update: I believe I have addressed the problem now. So is it alright to remove the 'biased' warning now? Puthujjana (talk) 19:12, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

The NKT is a cult that is not recognised by any of the main Tibetan Buddhist traditions. They were "expelled" from the Tibetan Buddhist community after members of the cult ritually murdered an outspoken opponent of theirs (Lobsang Gyatso) and two of his attendants in Dharamsala, India, February 4th 1997. . Their ordination technique (which differs greatly from orthodox Tibetan Buddhist methods) is not recognised by anybody except their own cult and neither are their "monastics". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:841C:E800:9C5C:3697:43FF:1F25 (talk) 08:13, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Ordination is the means by which people enter holy orders. Even Protestant groups whose concept of Holy Orders differs from the Roman Catholic sacramental view are mentioned in the Holy Orders article. There is a fair bit of redundancy here, so let's just merge the two articles.--Bhuck (talk) 09:04, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Obviously there is overlap between the two, but this article is much broader than just ordination within Christianity. StAnselm (talk) 02:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But this article has a subsection on Christianity. Is there any reason that something included in the "Holy Orders" article should not be included in the Ordination section?  Or, if the Christianity section of the Ordination article is too big, why not have an an article titled Christian Ordination which would be the main article, and be referenced in this article only by a few sentences and a link to the main article?--Bhuck (talk) 12:23, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the articles should be merged. It seems that ordination is a far more common term and it means the same thing. Ejnogarb (talk) 02:59, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I Disagree! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.65.36 (talk) 20:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose - The Ordination article talks about the rite of ordination while the Holy Orders article talks about the offices of Holy Orders. There is bound to be overlap, but they should be separate. The articles probably need to be cleaned up to reflect the actual difference in subject matter. Jubilee♫ clipman 22:59, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose Merging would just cause more problems. PsychoInfiltrator (talk) 03:41, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I am closing this proposal as there is a well reasoned consensus in opposition to the merge, and also per WP:MERGE, specifically:

''Merging should not be considered if: Wine Guy  Talk  20:34, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The resulting article is too long or "clunky"
 * 2) The separate topics could be expanded into longer standalone (but cross linked) articles
 * 3) The topics are discrete subjects and deserve their own articles even though they may be short''

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Clean up "Catholic" terminology
There is a need to clean up the use of terms Roman Catholic and Catholic. For example, at one point Roman Catholic seems to be referring to just Latin-Rite Catholics ("In the Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic..."), and at another it seems to be referring to all Catholics, both Latin and Eastern ("In Roman Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox thought..."). This is an issue being raised throughout Wikipedia recently, as part of a great deal of discussion regarding the renaming of the Catholic Church article (from Roman Catholic Church to Catholic Church). I think in this article it is not 100% clear which RC references are referring to the entire Church and which to just the Latin-Rite/Western churches, but hopefully a review of the sources will help. Just wanted to post this here to explain the changes that will eventually be made. --anietor (talk) 19:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican Churches
I have had a good hack at this, removing duplication, POV material, irrelevant material etc, but am aware that it is still highly inadequate and completely unreferenced. Regards all, Springnuts (talk) 21:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Online Ordination
Given the amount of people who are ordained online and the amount of various places that ordain online, this should at least be mentioned in the article.Aaronwayneodonahue (talk) 17:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Is this article far too broad?
I wonder if we are lumping too many widely disparate things together here? Springnuts (talk) 09:02, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Perhaps, but I don’t see any graceful way to reduce the article’s scope without introducing POV problems. There could be a separate  Ordination (Christianity) article, I suppose, but from my observations of how such things evolve on Wikipedia, much of the material there would be, after a short time, duplicated in this article.

 * On the other hand, I find this article organizationally challenged: Firstly, the main outline consists of five religions and “Ordination of women”, the latter having subsections for two of the five main sections not to mention that there is a separate article of Ordination of women).  Within the Christianity section, there are non sequitor insertions about, for example, the mutual recognition of orders (which belongs in its own subsection, if in this article at all) and on what days ordinations may be performed, which is a detail of ordination rituals, which is not discussed in this article but is detailed in the article “Holy Orders”.  Some moths ago I commenced reorganizing the Christianity section and hope to do more some day as time permits; I’d appreciate input as to what, if anything, should be removed from here and moved to the “Holy Orders” article.

 * Vincent J. Lipsio (talk) 12:06, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there consensus to insist that article content regarding "Ordination of women" be discussed only at Ordination of women? I'd support that idea. If the article is still too long, Ordination could redirect to Ordination (disambiguation) and this article's content could be split into Ordination (Christian) and Ordination (nonchristian). Is the term "nonchristian" nonneutral POV?--AuthorityTam (talk) 15:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Mahayana ordination section
It's a bit strange to contrast this with Therevadha, as if all Mahayana Buddhists follow a Mahayana ordination.

Instead, nearly all Mahayana Buddhists follow a similar ordination to the Therevadhans, based on the Vinaya. The Vinaya or discipline is also included in Mahayana Buddhism.

I think this needs to be rewritten though I don't have any specific recommendations on how to do it. Just writing this to hopefully draw attention of an expert who can do the rewrite. Thanks! Robert Walker (talk) 22:48, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Also surprised that it doesn't mention Thích Nhất Hạnh with his "order of interbeing" as a Mahayana ordination. Robert Walker (talk) 23:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

The New Kadampa Tradition Ordination is regarded as controversial – this must be mentioned to meet WP:NPOV
This section has no citation and it is not neutral. The NKT ordination is seen as controversial and the explanation given by the NKT is not accepted by non-NKT. The stance of the critics is not mentioned, therefore, the section is not neutral. With respect to the controversies going along with the NKT ordiantion see for instance, the statements by the Australian Sangha Association or the German Buddhist Monastic Association:
 * http://info-buddhism.com/ASA-statement.html
 * http://buddhistische-ordensgemeinschaft.de/dbo_statement-shugden-protests-Dalai-Lama.htm

See also Geshe Tashi Tsering:
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhckkxSgQ8g&feature=youtu.be
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZK6DAzKto&feature=youtu.be

Kt66 (talk) 15:26, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

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laying-on of hands
Laying-on of hands is an essential feature of most Protestant ordinations (write froma Lutheran point of view). Why does the article make no mention of this ritual except with reference to Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Jewish, and Mormon ordinations? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plblank (talk • contribs) 07:37, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Deaconesses
"Some (who?) claim that women were ordained deacons in the first millennium of Christianity, but their claims are disputed (by whom?)"

It would be nice to see this cleaned up and expanded to provide a fuller historical account. From the Catholic Encyclopedia (and I am not Catholic, so I don't have an axe to grind):

There can be no doubt that in their first institution the deaconesses were intended to discharge those same charitable offices, connected with the temporal well being of their poorer fellow Christians, which were performed for the men by the deacons. But in one particular, viz., the instruction and baptism of catechumens, their duties involved service of a more spiritual kind. The universal prevalence of baptism by immersion and the anointing of the whole body which preceded it, rendered it a matter of propriety that in this ceremony the functions of the deacons should be discharged by women. The Didascalia Apostolorum (III, 12; see Funk, Didascalia, etc., I, 208) explicitly direct that the deaconesses are to perform this function.

I don't have the time to research this (drop and run, I know) but thought I'd point it out in case someone wants to take this on. Possible references may be Eusebius' Church History, JND Kelly's Early Christian Doctrines, or Jaroslav Pelikan's The Christian Tradition Series. Tpkatsa (talk) 22:03, 1 April 2020 (UTC), Th. M.

title: Talk:Ordination


text:
Mac Flecknoe

Mac Flecknoe (full title: Mac Flecknoe; or, A satyr upon the True-Blue-Protestant Poet, T.S. ) is a verse mock-heroic satire written by John Dryden. It is a direct attack on Thomas Shadwell, another prominent poet of the time. It opens with the lines:

Written about 1678, but not published until 1682 (see 1682 in poetry), "Mac Flecknoe" is the outcome of a series of disagreements between Thomas Shadwell and Dryden. Their quarrel blossomed from the following disagreements: "1) their different estimates of the genius of Ben Jonson, 2) the preference of Dryden for comedy of wit and repartee and of Shadwell, the chief disciple of Jonson, for humors comedy, 3) a sharp disagreement over the true purpose of comedy, 4) contention over the value of rhymed plays, and 5) plagiarism." Shadwell fancied himself heir to Ben Jonson and to the variety of comedy which the latter had commonly written. Shadwell's poetry was certainly not of the same standard as Jonson's, and it is possible that Dryden wearied of Shadwell's argument that Dryden undervalued Jonson. Shadwell and Dryden were separated not only by literary ideas but also by political ones, for Shadwell was a Whig, while Dryden was an outspoken supporter of the Stuart monarchy.

The poem depicts Shadwell as the heir to a kingdom of poetic dullness, represented by his association with Richard Flecknoe, an earlier poet already satirized by Andrew Marvell and disliked by Dryden, although the poet does not use belittling techniques to satirize him. Multiple allusions in the satire to 17th-century literary works, and to classic Greek and Roman literature, demonstrate Dryden's complex approach and his mastery of the mock-heroic style.

The poem begins in the tone of an epic masterpiece, presenting Shadwell's defining characteristic as dullness, just as every epic hero has a defining characteristic: Odysseus's is cunning; Achilles's is wrath; the hero of Spenser's The Faerie Queene is of holiness; whilst Satan in Paradise Lost has the defining characteristic of pride. Thus, Dryden subverts the theme of the defining characteristic by giving Shadwell a negative characteristic as his only virtue. Dryden uses the mock-heroic through his use of the heightened language of the epic to treat the trivial subjects such as poorly written and largely dismissible poetry. The juxtaposition of the lofty style with unexpected nouns such as 'dullness' provides an ironic contrast and makes the satiric point by the obvious disparity. In this, it works at the verbal level, with the language being carried by compelling rhythm and rhyme.

title: Mac Flecknoe


text:
Congenital diaphragmatic hernia

Congenital diaphragmatic hernia (CDH) is a birth defect of the diaphragm. The most common type of CDH is a Bochdalek hernia; other types include Morgagni hernia, diaphragm eventration and central tendon defects of the diaphragm. Malformation of the diaphragm allows the abdominal organs to push into the chest cavity, hindering proper lung formation.

CDH is a life-threatening pathology in infants and a major cause of death due to two complications: pulmonary hypoplasia and pulmonary hypertension. Experts disagree on the relative importance of these two conditions, with some focusing on hypoplasia, others on hypertension. Newborns with CDH often have severe respiratory distress which can be life-threatening unless treated appropriately.

Bochdalek hernia
The Bochdalek hernia, also known as a postero-lateral diaphragmatic hernia, is the most common manifestation of CDH, accounting for more than 95% of cases. In this instance the diaphragm abnormality is characterized by a hole in the postero-lateral corner of the diaphragm which allows passage of the abdominal viscera into the chest cavity. The majority of Bochdalek hernias (80–85%) occur on the left side of the diaphragm, a large proportion of the remaining cases occur on the right side. To date, it carries a high mortality and is an active area of clinical research.

Morgagni hernia
This rare anterior defect of the diaphragm is variably referred to as a Morgagni, retrosternal, or parasternal hernia. Accounting for approximately 2% of all CDH cases, it is characterized by herniation through the foramina of Morgagni which are located immediately adjacent and posterior to the xiphoid process of the sternum.

Diaphragm eventration
The diagnosis of congenital diaphragmatic eventration is used when there is abnormal displacement (i.e. elevation) of part or all of an otherwise intact diaphragm into the chest cavity. This rare type of CDH occurs because in the region of eventration the diaphragm is thinner, allowing the abdominal viscera to protrude upwards.

Pathophysiology
There are genetic causes of CDH including aneuploidies, chromosome copy number variants, and single gene mutations. Research implicates a few gene mutations including LONP1 and MYRF. It involves three major defects:
 * A failure of the diaphragm to completely close during development
 * Herniation of the abdominal contents into the chest
 * Pulmonary hypoplasia

Diagnosis
This condition can often be diagnosed before birth and fetal intervention can sometimes help, depending on the severity of the condition. Infants born with diaphragmatic hernia experience respiratory failure due to both pulmonary hypertension and pulmonary hypoplasia. The first condition is a restriction of blood flow through the lungs thought to be caused by defects in the lung. Pulmonary hypoplasia or decreased lung volume is directly related to the abdominal organs presence in the chest cavity which causes the lungs to be severely undersized, especially on the side of the hernia.

Survival rates for infants with this condition vary, but have generally been increasing through advances in neonatal medicine. Work has been done to correlate survival rates to ultrasound measurements of the lung volume as compared to the baby's head circumference. This figure known as the lung-to-head ratio (LHR). Still, LHR remains an inconsistent measure of survival. Outcomes of CDH are largely dependent on the severity of the defect and the appropriate timing of treatment.

A small percentage of cases go unrecognized into adulthood.

Treatment
The first step in management is orogastric tube placement and securing the airway (intubation). Ideally, the baby will never take a breath, to avoid air going into the intestines and compressing the lungs and heart. The baby will then be immediately placed on a ventilator. Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) has been used as part of the treatment strategy at some hospitals. ECMO acts as a heart-lung bypass.

Diaphragm eventration is typically repaired thoracoscopically, by a technique called plication of the diaphragm. Plication basically involves a folding of the eventrated diaphragm which is then sutured in order to “take up the slack” of the excess diaphragm tissue.

Prognosis
Congenital diaphragmatic hernia has a mortality rate of 40–62%, with outcomes being more favorable in the absence of other congenital abnormalities. Individual rates vary greatly dependent upon multiple factors: size of hernia, organs involved, additional birth defects and/or genetic problems, amount of lung growth, age and size at birth, type of treatments, timing of treatments, complications (such as infections) and lack of lung function.

title: Congenital diaphragmatic hernia


text:
Salm-Horstmar

Salm-Horstmar was a short-lived Napoleonic County in far northern North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, located around Horstmar, to the northeast of Münster. It was created in 1803 for Wild- and Rhinegrave Frederick Charles Augustus of Salm-Grumbach following the loss of Grumbach and other territories west of the Rhine to France. It was mediatised to the Kingdom of Prussia in 1813 and the Wild- and Rhinegrave was awarded a princely title within Prussia three years later.

Count of Salm-Horstmar (1803–1813)

 * Frederick Charles Augustus (1803–1813)

Princes of Salm-Horstmar (1816-present)

 * Wilhelm Friedrich, 1st Prince 1816-1865 (1799-1865)
 * Otto I, 2nd Prince 1865-1892 (1833-1892)
 * Otto II, 3rd Prince 1892-1941 (1867-1941)
 * Philipp Franz, 4th Prince 1941-1996 (1909-1996)
 * Philipp Otto, 5th Prince 1996–present (born 1938)
 * Philipp, Hereditary Prince of Salm-Horstmar (born 1973)
 * Prince Christian of Salm-Horstmar (born 1975)
 * Prince Gustav Friedrich of Salm-Horstmar (born 1942)
 * Prince Maximilian of Salm-Horstmar (born 1979)
 * Prince Leopold of Salm-Horstmar (born 1982)
 * Prince Johann Christof of Salm-Horstmar (born 1949)
 * Prince Carlos Federico of Salm-Horstmar (born 1965)
 * Prince Constantin of Salm-Horstmar (born 1994)
 * Prince Adrian of Salm-Horstmar (born 1996)

title: Salm-Horstmar


text:
File:22-20s (album).jpg

Summary
The cover of 22-20s' self-titled debut album.

title: File:22-20s (album).jpg


text:
Frances Stewart, Duchess of Richmond

Frances Teresa Stewart, Duchess of Richmond and Lennox (8 July 1647 – 15 October 1702) was a prominent member of the Court of the Restoration and famous for refusing to become a mistress of Charles II of England. For her great beauty she was known as La Belle Stuart and served as the model for an idealised, female Britannia. She is one of the Windsor Beauties painted by Sir Peter Lely.

Biography
Frances was the daughter of Walter Stewart, a physician in Queen Henrietta Maria's court, and a distant relative of the royal family as the son of Lord Blantyre, and his wife, Sophia (née Carew). She was born on 8 July 1647 in exile in Paris, but was sent to England in 1663 after the restoration by Charles I's widow, Henrietta Maria, as maid of honour (a court appointment) and subsequently as lady-in-waiting to Charles II's new bride, Catherine of Braganza. The great diarist Samuel Pepys recorded that she was the greatest beauty he ever saw. She had numerous suitors, including the Duke of Buckingham and Francis Digby, son of the Earl of Bristol, whose unrequited love for her was celebrated by Dryden. Her beauty appeared to her contemporaries to be equaled only by her childish silliness; but her letters to her husband, preserved in the British Museum, are not devoid of good sense and feeling.

The Count de Gramont said of her that "it would be difficult to imagine less brain combined with more beauty."

While a member of the royal court, she caught the eye of Charles II, who fell in love with her. The king's infatuation was so great that when the queen's life was despaired of in 1663, it was reported that he intended to marry Stewart, and four years later he was considering the possibility of obtaining a divorce to enable him to make her his wife because she had refused to become his mistress.

Eventually, in March 1667, she married (as his third wife) Charles Stewart, 3rd Duke of Richmond, 6th Duke of Lennox (1639–1672), a fourth cousin of King Charles II, but produced no issue. It is possible she had to elope, after being discovered with him by Lady Castlemaine, a rival for the king's affections.

The now Duchess of Richmond, however, soon returned to court, where she remained for many years; and although she was disfigured by smallpox in 1669, she retained her hold on the king's affections. It is certain, at least, that Charles went on to post the Duke to Scotland and then to Denmark as ambassador, where he died in 1672. It is however speculated that the duchess of the King may have had an affair. Samuel Pepys recorded in May 1668:

"(..)he is mighty hot upon the Duchess of Richmond; insomuch that, upon Sunday was seen, at night, after he had ordered his Guards and coach to be ready to carry him to the Park, he did, on a sudden, take a pair of oars or sculler, and all alone, or but one with him, go to Somersett House, and there, the garden-door not being open, himself clamber over the walls to make a visit to her, which is a horrid shame."

Some evidence appeared in the Dutch television series "Verborgen Verleden" that she and Charles had an illegitimate daughter named Rebecca, who was kept hidden to preserve Frances' reputation

The duchess was present in 1688 at the birth of James Francis Edward Stuart ("The Old Pretender"), son of James II, and was one of those who signed the certificate before the council. She attended the coronation of Queen Anne in April 1702, before dying in October aged 55. Much of her estate was left in trust to purchase a Scottish property that came to her relative Alexander Stuart, 5th Lord Blantyre; it was renamed from Lethington to Lennoxlove after her.

Britannia
Following the Second Anglo-Dutch War, Charles had a commemorative medal cast celebrating the 1667 Peace of Breda. According to Samuel Pepys, it was her face that was used by the artist John Roettiers as a model for Britannia, and Roettiers adapted the image for reproduction on the reverse of the copper coins issued from 1672. This was the first time the national personification had appeared on coinage since Roman times and began an ongoing tradition of Britannia depicted on the coins of the pound sterling.

In fiction

 * Forever Amber Kathleen Winsor (1944)
 * A Health Unto His Majesty (1956) Jean Plaidy
 * The Lady on the Coin, by Margaret Campbell Barnes & Hebe Elsna, pub. 1963.
 * The Sceptre and the Rose Doris Leslie (1967)
 * The Painted Lady Maeve Haran (2011)
 * Girl on the Golden Coin Marci Jefferson (2014)
 * Dark Stars C.S. Quinn (2016)
 * The Great Fire (miniseries) played by Antonia Clarke

title: Frances Stewart, Duchess of Richmond


text: User talk:69.209.137.20

title: User talk:69.209.137.20


text: User talk:72.25.94.60

title: User talk:72.25.94.60


text:
User talk:El Maestro~enwiki

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silent Flute Man

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 04:11, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Silent Flute Man
Was tagged as a speedy. Delete. Lupo 09:24, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, unverifiable. Megan1967 11:11, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --khaosworks 18:18, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete no google hits, unverified. --Etacar11 23:00, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Read the article and it's not that much of an interesting case. Nothing paranormal in what has been reported, nor anything Wikipedia-worthy. Decius 00:32, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) Note: after I pointed out that there was nothing paranormal in the article, the anonymous user who started the article added a paranormal touch by writing that a witness allegedly saw Silent Flute Man literally diving as if 'into thin air'. It's an attempted wiki-hoax most likely. Vote same as before. Decius 21:10, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Gonna have to vote Delete on this one. Nothing really that unusual about some drifter. Unless notability can be established, I'd say this one's headed back to the road. Mr Bound 02:23, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Quale 05:24, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Uchuujin Agreed, this could be interesting if there were some folklore that evolved around it, like people hearing a flute on the shore during full moons with cropcircles nearby. twenty five to eleven, may 31st.
 * Delete - no folklore, no paranormal events, no notability, quite simply no. Dismas 07:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Megan1967 and Etacar11 have hit the nail on the head. This article cites no sources and is unverifiable.  Piano Man (person), in contrast, refers to Wikinews, and thus for starters implicitly cites all of the many sources that Wikinews (which is far stricter than Wikipedia is when it comes to source citation) cites.  There's no evidence that this article isn't simply a complete fabrication. And even were it not a complete fabrication, Uchuujin makes the point that the purported Silent Flute Man of 1968 hasn't gained the worldwide notoriety and inspired the sort of worldwide discussion that Piano Man (person) has. Delete. Uncle G 18:36, 2005 Jun 1 (UTC)
 * I did see something in a British newspaper about 'silent flute man' the other day, but even so, delete Proto 12:34, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete drini ☎ 17:17, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.