text:
Tyler Walker (baseball)

Tyler Lanier Walker (born May 15, 1976) is an American former professional baseball relief pitcher. He is an alumnus of San Francisco University High School, where he was closely mentored by Duncan Lyon, and University of California, Berkeley. Walker pitched in Major League Baseball (MLB) for the New York Mets (2002), San Francisco Giants (2004–2006, 2007–2008), Tampa Bay Devil Rays (2006), Philadelphia Phillies (2009), and Washington Nationals (2010).

Major league career
Walker's big break came in 2005, when Giants' closer Armando Benítez was out of action for three months. With only one major league save in his career to that point, Walker filled in admirably by converting 23 out of 28 save opportunities. On June 17, in a game against the Detroit Tigers, Walker made history by becoming the first pitcher to record a save (since the save rule became an official stat in ) by entering a game with the bases loaded with nobody out and proceeding to strike out all three batters he faced without allowing a run to score. Early in the 2006 season, Walker was sent to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in exchange for minor leaguer Carlos Hines. On June 14 of that year, he was placed on the disabled list with a strained right elbow, and later underwent season-ending Tommy John surgery. On December 10, 2006, he signed a minor league deal with the Giants. He pitched in 15 games late in the 2007 season and re-signed with the Giants for 2008. In 65 games in 2008, he had a 4.56 ERA and became a free agent after the season. On January 6,, he signed a one-year deal with the Seattle Mariners. He was released on March 29, 2009, before the start of the regular season. After that, he was signed by the Phillies on April 9, 2009.

On January 25, 2010, Walker agreed to a one-year contract with the Washington Nationals. He posted a 3.57 ERA during the 2010 season out of a long relief role. After the season ended, he became a free agent.

Walker signed with the Long Island Ducks of the Atlantic League on September 14, 2011.

title: Tyler Walker (baseball)


text:
Moe's Southwest Grill

Moe's Southwest Grill, referred to informally as Moe's, is an American fast casual restaurant franchise chain that was founded in Atlanta, Georgia on December 9, 2000 by Raving Brands. The name "Moe's" originated as an acronym for "Musicians, Outlaws and Entertainers", and this theme led to the music-related artwork found in the original design.

Moe's Southwest Grill—together with Schlotzsky's, Carvel, Cinnabon, McAlister's Deli, Jamba and Auntie Anne's brands—is part of the Focus Brands portfolio of brands.

The restaurant chain originally featured artwork depicting deceased music legends and licensed a special rock soundtrack from Muzak that consisted of music from deceased musicians or bands with a notable deceased musician. After a lawsuit from the estate of Jerry Garcia, depictions of actual people were removed from the decor. The menu, which initially featured puns based on people and popular phrases from music, television, and movies was revamped to remove nearly all phrases that may result in legal issues.

Fare
Moe's offers various types of food on its menu, including burritos, tacos, quesadillas, nachos, salads, stacks, burrito bowls, and house-made seasonal salsas. Ingredients can be added or subtracted from the standard entree for customization. Every order comes with chips and salsa on the side.

International locations

Moe's no longer franchises any locations outside the United States.

In 2011, Moe's opened its first location outside the United States in Turkey.

In September 2012, Moe's opened its first Russian franchise located in the center of Moscow near the Kremlin on Pyatnitskaya Street.

Franchise partners also existed in Costa Rica and Jamaica.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Moe's Southwest Grill


text:
Talk:Min (god)

Accuracy
There is, in my opinion, a whole lot of unsubstantiated "facts" in this article. In particular (though there are others!), this claim:

 * Due to an Egyptian military ritual in which prisoners were raped anally, so as to ensure their subjugation

This also:

 * Originally, Min was the constellation Orion

Does anyone have any mainstream, scholarly sources or Egyptian textual evidence to support these assertions? —Nefertum17 05:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

N.b. please don't leave spaces at the start of paragraphs, as it makes wikipedia try to fit the entire thing on one line, and you get huge browser windows - I have adjusted this.

There is quite a bit suggesting Min was Orion, in particular, the fact that the usual image of Min is a pretty good image for the constellation Orion - with the phallus becoming what we think of as Orion's belt, the unusual long headdress becoming what we view as the right arm, and the left arm of course is exactly identical (which is quite a good clue since it is otherwise an unusual angle), and the torso only going along Orion's left hand side - Min is depicted side-on. It is also important that the hieroglyphic texts and others, seem to think it special to point out that Min is He of the outstretched arm rather than He with his other hand on his penis, since the outstreched left arm is one of the most significant things about Orion. Also, Orion had a great significance in ancient culture, being as how it was one of the only things in the sky that was totally clearly looking like an actual person, and certainly the largest.

The anal rape thing is alluded to in hundreds of ancient documents, and since homosexuality wasnt such a big thing then, it wasnt anywhere near as shocking as it would have been percieved now. The lecture notes I have about this don't actually mention anyone specific, and I just remember the lecturer stating it as if it was a generally accepted view, rather than anything controversial.

 * I wasn't talking about homosexuality. I was questioning your assertion that there is an "Egyptian military ritual in which prisoners were raped anally, so as to ensure their subjugation". If there are "hundreds of ancient documents" referring to this "ritual", I am sure it will be easy for you or someone else to cite one. Secondly your claim that "Originally, Min was the constellation Orion" is also, as far as I know, without basis beyond a superficial visual similarity. If there is a text referring to Sah (Egyptian for "Orion") with Min, I would be most interested in hearing it. You might want to take a look at:

 * Wilkinson, Richard Herbert. 1991/1992. "Ancient Near Eastern Raised-arm Figures and the Iconography of the Egyptian God Min." Bulletin of the Egyptological Seminar 11:109–118.

 * And if you don't mind, please sign your comments with the ~ code. Thanks -Ril-i! —Nefertum17 21:44, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

In what way is the resemblence superficial? Since Orion is merely a collection of dots of varying brightness, it is difficult to see how something which matches the layout of the dots could have any more requirement put upon it. The left-arm-pose Min appears in is a particularly awkward one, and there is no plausible reason for it, other than it being because that is how Orion happens to be. Min and Sah have quite distinct attributes, as would be expected if Min was from those who thought Orion was in profile, and Sah was from those who thought Orion was in portrait.

Since they developed seperately, eventually gaining other different characteristics, I find the idea of a text going Sah=Min to be very unlikely to exist, even if they were both Orion. Indeed, should it be true, I think it unlikely, given the ancientness of Min, that there would ever be a text going Min=that-constellation-of-the-giant-man-who-the-greeks-name-orion-in-3000-years. Consequently, if I ask my old tutors, even if they were willing to give me time (which I doubt, as they tend not to help non-students), I suspect little would be found whatever the factual ituation.

Oh, urm, the 100s of documents insinuate rather than refer. Nothing that I have been told about explicitely states "prisoners were raped", they merely use such language that the conclusion is obvious.

By the way, the door bolt theory is quite interesting as well, although I am unsure quite how that identification could be considered to explain how he came to be a sky god and god of rain in the early centuries of egypt - Orion is a much better (i.e. more simple, requires less extra assumptions, explains more aspects) explanation for this. However, i the peer review of it (which I am not sure how to find) is favourable, I think it may be worth coming back to.

~

I can't find any reference to Min and Orion - in fact the whole article focuses on this whilst ignoring other attributes - I am going to delete large sections because this article is so far from accuracy that I am stunned that no-one has changed it already.Apepch7 17:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

During a visit to the Karnac temple we were told that Min originally was a common man that refused to join a war. He stayed behind in his village. When the men came back from the war their viwes were all pregnant. They knew who was responsible and cut off one arm and one leg as a punishment. Min is always depicted with one arm and one leg. Somehow he got cred for his deeds and was appointed to a fertility God. Tommolla (talk) 10:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC) / tommolla

"Military Ritual"
I removed the following:

 * Due to an Egyptian military ritual in which prisoners were raped anally, so as to ensure their subjugation, some war-goddesses were even depicted with the body of Min (including the phallus), and this also lead to depictions ostensibly of Min, but with the head of a lioness. This ritual also appears in the myth of the battle between Set and Horus, indicating that aside from emotional pressure, the rape may have legally and theologically been considered to confirm the subjugation.

When (and if) any evidence for the existance of such a "ritual" is provided from a primary Egyptian source, this claim could then be reinserted. Until that time, in my opinion it need not be in the article as it now stands. —Nefertum17 20:59, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I just pulled the same paragraph again, notwithstanding the fact that the best Ril has come up with is:
 * Oh, urm, the 100s of documents insinuate rather than refer. Nothing that I have been told about explicitely states "prisoners were raped", they merely use such language that the conclusion is obvious
 * Sorry, but you have to do better than that for an encyclopedia when presenting so grandiose a claim as fact; if you're not going to furnish any cite for your claim, I'd be inclined to call it original research. Codex Sinaiticus 03:16, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

heading for another dispute?
Ril, "Ham" (with an H) is only the English form; the original Hebrew form of "Ham" was the same sound as in Khem... you will often see the Hebrew transcribed as "Cham" and in sources older than 1800, Ham's name almost always appears as "Cham" - Ch being used to represent the very same thing it does in "Chem"... Arguing that Ham must have come from Khem and not vice versa is therefore a non-argument; or at best a POV I do not share. Since both start with the same sound in the original languages, Khem could just as easily have come from Cham. There is plenty of back-and-forth attested between Kh and Ch (not the English "Ch" sound, but a raspy velar) going in both directions. Remember that in Ethiopia the name of Ham ended up as "Kam", and that could well be the original of all these other forms. Aside from that, if you insist on writing "LORD" (as it appears in the text) as "lord", while capitalising all of these idols' names, you can rest assured that you're going to get a "totally disputed" pov tag. Codex Sinaiticus 19:19, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Tanakh vs. Torah
I just changed the reference to the torah to the tanakh. There is a difference! torah is Just the five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, and Dueteronomy), Whereas the tanakh has Torah, Nevi'im, and ketuvim. ISaiah is in Nevi'im. I learned this at my jewish religeous school a few months ago. Nevi'im is not in the torah! Dmrk1201 17:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Maung?
Where does this version of the name come from? I have never heard of this. Also I can find no reference to the identity with Orion - I know it was discussed above but it is not referenced at all.Apepch7 22:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Well I'm going to remove it - !Apepch7 17:08, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

'Sex'
Quite amusingly, 'min' (מין) is Hebrew for 'sex'. Should this be added? Siúnrá (talk) 12:40, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Briliant
“coming forth” ... ;) - please no one edit that out. ˥ Ǝ Ʉ  H Ɔ I Ɯ 06:03, 28 February 2012 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mimarx (talk • contribs)

Min Temple, Coptos
No mention of the Min Temple at Coptos discovered by Flinders Petrie? The remains of three Min statues shown in the Ashmolean Museum are regarded by some as the earliest known monumental statues. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt//3d/coptos/coptos1.html http://herboyves.blogspot.de/2015/03/egypte-les-mysteres-des-debuts.html --BjKa (talk) 15:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Removed from the article
I removed this passage from the article because it's unsourced. I'm not sure what the first part of it is even supposed to mean. The etymology of Akhmim may well be true but is unsourced. A. Parrot (talk) 00:45, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

"In the 19th century, there was an alleged erroneous transcription of the Egyptian for Min as ḫm ('khem'). Since Khem was worshipped most significantly in Akhmim, the separate identity of Khem was reinforced, Akhmim being understood as simply a corruption of Khem. However, Akhmim is an alleged corruption of ḫm-mnw, meaning Shrine of Min, via the demotic form šmn."

title: Talk:Min (god)


text:
Category:Fast casual restaurants

This category contains articles about fast casual restaurants. See the fast casual restaurant article for a definition of the format.

title: Category:Fast casual restaurants


text:
User:Gblaz

Hi! Welcome to my user page...

I'm not a big fan of listing personal information online so I apologize that it is a bit sparse.

As a Wikipedian I do what I can to edit and write articles on topics I know a lot about. I also participate in the following wikipedia tasks:
 * wikifying articles;
 * copyediting;
 * RC patrol;
 * scanning the New Pages for vandalism and tagging articles for speedy deletion and votes for deletion;
 * and welcoming new users.

I started out simply editing and writing articles. Then as I learned more about Wikipedia I started working on wikifying and copy editing articles that had been tagged. I continued all of that and added scanning new articles for canidiates for Votes for Deletion and Speedy Deletion. I later discovered how to do RC patrol and I began to contribute to the endless hunt for vandals.

I never cease to be amazed at how the time and knowledge of each contributor comes together to create this wealth of information.

Feel free to drop me a note with any questions you may have!

title: User:Gblaz


text:
Talk:Jiuyin Zhenjing

Untitled
This should perhaps be merged with The Legend of the Condor Heroes article. Does this text actually exist in history? Or is it an invention of Jin Yong? Jute 05:24, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

What garbage is this, especially the Wikisource text? Please don't take Wikipedia for a spin. It is a serious encyclopedia. Mandel 03:31, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, another ignorant Westerner. Mr. Mandel, what do you mean by garbage?  This is a detailed description of a book found in Jing Yong's famous martial art NOVEL.  If you don't know a shit, please STFU.  If this is garbage, those pages related to Harry Potter is bullshit.    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.10.74.147 (talk) 19:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree that this page can do with some cleaning-up, however it shouldn't be merged with the LOCH main article. The Zhen Jing has in itself a complex history, and incorporating it into LOCH would unnecessarily clatter the article.--Alexio 13:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jiuyin Zhenjing


text:
Bya

bya or b.y.a. is an abbreviation for "billion years ago". It is commonly used as a unit of time to denote length of time before the present in 109 years. This initialism is often used in the sciences of astronomy, geology, and paleontology.

The "billion" in bya is the 109 "billion" of the short scale of the U.S., not the long-scale 1012 "billion" of some European usage. Billion by this convention (109) is often called a "thousand million" in the UK and a "milliard" in some other countries. For this reason, there is potential for some confusion, and some scientists prefer the unit Gya, while others prefer Ga (Giga-annum), however, bya remains in more widespread use. In 1974, the UK switched from the long scale to the short scale.

Related units are mya ("million years ago"), and byr ("billion years"). These are traditionally written in lowercase. Ga or Gya has a capitalized first letter instead.

title: Bya


text:
University of Puerto Rico School of Medicine

The University of Puerto Rico, Medical Sciences Campus, School of Medicine is located in the University of Puerto Rico, Medical Sciences Campus in San Juan, Puerto Rico. It's the only medical school in the University of Puerto Rico System. It is accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME). Its students are predominantly Puerto Rican residents. However, anyone is allowed to apply to this university. It is also considered the top bilingual medical school in the world due to its requirement for each admitted student to fully master both English and Spanish.

Institute of Tropical Medicine
In the nineteenth century, major health problems affected the Puerto Rican population. Anemia, malnutrition and parasitism were some of the most common conditions in children and adults. With the arrival of U.S. troops in 1898, the need for effective health plans to serve the population became a priority. With the change of sovereignty, anemia commissions were established in Puerto Rico. Thus began the development of what would become the Institute of Tropical Medicine, which was formalized in 1912.

School of Tropical Medicine
A consolidation of the former Institute of Tropical Medicine and other entities led in 1926 to the formation of the School of Tropical Medicine. Funds from Columbia University were used for the training of different health professionals in the island. At the same time, the school's professors conducted studies in collaboration with Columbia University physicians on tropical diseases hitherto of unknown etiology, or of high prevalence morbidity and mortality in Puerto Rico. In 1946 following the end of World War II, Columbia University canceled the money sent to the Medical School, which led to its closure. The legislature authorized a School of Medicine at the University of Puerto Rico, into which the School of Tropical Medicine was integrated.

UPR School of Medicine
The need for a State Medical School led in 1950 to the creation of the University of Puerto Rico School of Medicine as part of the University of Puerto Rico System, thanks to efforts made by the lawyer and first president of the University, Jaime Benitez. It began with an enrollment of 52 students. The school received its accreditation on 20 April 1954. In 1960, the University established a graduate program, unique in Puerto Rico, along with other medical services and research. Distinguished professors from European countries and Latin America visited the School for academics, research and consultation. Adán Nigaglioni Loyola was dean from 1963 to 1967.

MD program
The curriculum of the program leading to the Doctor of Medicine degree is designed following the trends of modern medical education and takes into consideration the health needs of the community. It is divided into two major components: two years of required biomedical sciences and two years of clinical clerkships. The School of Medicine MD Program is fully accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education.

Graduate programs
Programs leading to: Master of Science (M.S.) and Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) in:

Anatomy, Biochemistry, Pharmacology and Toxicology, Physiology, Microbiology and Medical Zoology Biology through an intercampus (UPR-Medical Sciences and Rio Piedras) program.

Departments:
 * Anatomy & Neurobiology
 * Biochemistry
 * Microbiology and Medical Zoology
 * Pharmacology and Toxicology
 * Physiology

Residency training programs
ACGME Accredited Speciality Programs:

Anesthesiology, Dermatology, Diagnostic Radiology, Emergency Medicine, Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Obstetrics-Gynecology, Ophthalmology, Orthopedic Surgery, Otolaryngology, Pathology, Pediatrics, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Psychiatry, Surgery and Urology.

ACGME Accredited Sub-Speciality Programs:

Cardiovascular Disease, Child and adolescent psychiatry, Endocrinology, Family Practice-Geriatrics, Gastroenterology, Geriatric Medicine, Hematology/Oncology, Infectious Diseases, Neonatology, Nephrology, Neuromuscular Medicine, Nuclear Medicine, Pediatric Critical Care Medicine, Pediatric Hematology/Oncology, Pediatric Neurology, Pulmonology and Rheumatology.


text:
Mount Saskatchewan (Alberta)

Mount Saskatchewan is a mountain located in the North Saskatchewan River valley of Banff National Park, in the Canadian Rockies of Alberta, Canada.

J. Norman Collie named the mountain in 1898 for the nearby Saskatchewan River. One report said Collie so named it due to its possession of the headwaters of the North Saskatchewan River.

Lighthouse Tower
A 75 m pinnacle unofficially named Lighthouse Tower and also sometimes referred to as "Cleopatra's Needle" (elevation 2960 m), is located two kilometres from the summit on the eastern ridge of Mt. Saskatchewan.

It was first climbed in 1964 by G. Boehnisch and L. Mackay.

Geology
Like other mountains in Banff Park, Mount Saskatchewan is composed of sedimentary rock laid down from the Precambrian to Jurassic periods. Formed in shallow seas, this sedimentary rock was pushed east and over the top of younger rock during the Laramide orogeny. The north aspect of the peak supports an unnamed glacier which can be seen well from Parker Ridge.

Climate
Based on the Köppen climate classification, Mount Saskatchewan is located in a subarctic climate with cold, snowy winters, and mild summers. Temperatures can drop below −20 °C with wind chill factors below −30 °C. Weather conditions during summer months are optimum for climbing.

title: Mount Saskatchewan (Alberta)


text:
Reed Smoot hearings

The Reed Smoot hearings, also called Smoot hearings or the Smoot Case, were a series of Congressional hearings on whether the United States Senate should seat U.S. Senator Reed Smoot, who was elected by the Utah legislature in 1903. Smoot was an apostle in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), one of the top 15 leaders of the church. The hearings began in 1904 and continued until 1907, when the Senate voted. The vote fell short of a two-thirds majority needed to expel a member so he retained his seat.

Popular opposition against Smoot's seating in the Senate centered on the church's practice of polygamy, which the church officially abandoned in 1890; as the hearings revealed, however, the practice continued unofficially well into the 20th century. For example, the President of the LDS Church Joseph F. Smith cohabited with his many wives (all of whom he married before 1890) and fathered eleven children after 1890. New plural marriages did end by 1909, but the practice continued until the polygamists died off. Smoot himself only had one wife.

The attorney who represented those protesting Smoot's admittance to the Senate, Robert W. Tayler, explained in his summation that polygamy was irrelevant and the real danger was Mormon belief in revelation. Much of the American Protestant establishment viewed the LDS Church with distrust and was also skeptical of Utah politics, which before gaining statehood in 1896 had at times been a theocracy (theodemocracy) and in the early 20th century was still heavily dominated and influenced by the LDS Church; President of the LDS Church Brigham Young was twice appointed territorial governor by the U.S. President and ratified by the Senate, despite being a polygamist.

Election
Prior to being called as an apostle of the LDS Church, Smoot had run for a Senate position, but withdrew before the election. After becoming an apostle in 1900, he received the approval of church president Joseph F. Smith to run again in 1902 as a Republican. The need for this permission was a result of the LDS Church's "Political Manifesto" issued in October 1895, which instituted a policy which required general authorities of the church to be granted approval from the First Presidency to run for political office. In January 1903, the Utah legislature elected Smoot with 46 votes, compared to his Democratic competitor, who won 16.

Controversy

Within days of his election, controversy brewed as Smoot was charged with being "one of a self-perpetuating body of fifteen men who, constituting the ruling authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or 'Mormon' Church, claim, and by their followers are accorded the right to claim, supreme authority, divinely sanctioned, to shape the belief and control the conduct of those under them in all matters whatsoever, civil and religious, temporal and spiritual."

When Senator Smoot arrived in Washington, DC, in late February 1903, he was met with protests and charges that he was a polygamist, but he could easily disprove them. Unlike B. H. Roberts, who upon election to the House of Representatives was not allowed to sit while hearings took place, Smoot was allowed to be seated. Among the public, old charges of Danites, the Mountain Meadows massacre, and Brigham Young's plural wives were discussed.

In January 1904, Smoot prepared a rebuttal to the criticisms, with the help of several non-Mormon lawyers. The actual hearings began in March. LDS Church President Joseph F. Smith took the witness stand and was interrogated for three days. Apostles Matthias F. Cowley and John W. Taylor did not appear after being subpoenaed. Apostle Marriner W. Merrill ignored one subpoena and died soon after being subpoenaed a second time. Taylor fled to Canada. Other witnesses included James E. Talmage; Francis M. Lyman, president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles; Andrew Jenson, church historian; B. H. Roberts; and Moses Thatcher, who had been dropped from the Quorum of the Twelve in 1896.

According to historian Kathleen Flake:

The four-year Senate proceeding created a 3,500-page record of testimony by 100 witnesses on every peculiarity of Mormonism, especially its polygamous family structure, ritual worship practices, "secret oaths," open canon, economic communalism, and theocratic politics. The public participated actively in the proceedings. In the Capitol, spectators lined the halls, waiting for limited seats in the committee room, and filled the galleries to hear floor debates. For those who could not see for themselves, journalists and cartoonists depicted each day's admission and outrage. At the height of the hearing, some senators were receiving a thousand letters a day from angry constituents. What remains of these public petitions fills 11 feet of shelf space, the largest such collection in the National Archives.

After years of hearings, the remaining charges of the opposition included the following:
 * That church leaders were still practicing plural marriage. Apostles John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley were still performing plural marriages in Mexico and Canada, but Taylor was later excommunicated for the practice.
 * That the church was exerting too much influence on Utah politics.
 * That members were required to take oaths of vengeance in the temples that they would seek revenge on the United States.
 * That members believed revelation was higher than the laws of the land.

The defense included:
 * "Reed Smoot possesses all the qualifications prescribed by the Constitution to make him eligible to a seat in the Senate, and the regularity of his election by the legislature of the State of Utah is not questioned in any manner."
 * "Aside from his connection with the Mormon Church, so far as his private character is concerned, it is, according to all witnesses, irreproachable, for all who testify on the subject agree or concede that he has led and is leading an upright life".
 * "So far as mere belief and membership in the Mormon Church are concerned, he is fully within his rights and privileges under the guaranty of religious freedom given by the Constitution of the United States".
 * In relation to the oath, the testimony is "thereby shown to be limited in amount, vague and indefinite in character, and utterly unreliable, because of the disreputable and untrustworthy character of the witnesses."

Of note, Senator Fred Dubois of Idaho fought viciously against Smoot. His intensity caused some to believe that Smoot was as powerful as Dubois claimed. Dubois's ally, Senator Julius C. Burrows of Michigan, made the following statement, speaking of the history of Mormon polygamy:

"In order to induce his followers more readily to accept this infamous doctrine, Brigham Young himself invoked the name of Joseph Smith, the Martyr, whom many sincerely believed to be a true prophet, and ascribed to him the reception of a revelation from the Almighty in 1843, commanding the Saints to take unto themselves a multiplicity of wives, limited in number only by the measures of their desires.... Such the mythical story palmed off on a deluded people."

One supporter was Senator Boies Penrose of Pennsylvania. Addressing the subject of polygamy, Penrose reportedly glared at one or more of his Senate colleagues who had a reputation for philandering and said, "As for me, I would rather have seated beside me in this chamber a polygamist who doesn't polyg than a monogamist who doesn't monag."

On February 20, 1907, the issue came to a conclusion as a vote was held in the Senate. Smoot won and remained a senator for 26 more years.

Aftermath
President Joseph F. Smith on April 6, 1904, issued a "Second Manifesto," which reaffirmed the first regarding polygamy. He also declared that any church officer who performed a plural marriage, as well as the offending couple, would be excommunicated. He clarified that the policy applied worldwide, not just in North America. Two members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley, resigned in October 1905 after the manifesto. The change to the Twelve was made public in April 1906, when George F. Richards, Orson F. Whitney, and David O. McKay were added to the quorum.

title: Reed Smoot hearings


text: Talk:Mount Saskatchewan (Alberta)

title: Talk:Mount Saskatchewan (Alberta)


text:
Annapolis (disambiguation)

Annapolis is the capital of the U.S. state of Maryland.

Annapolis may also refer to:

United States

 * Annapolis, Maryland
 * The United States Naval Academy, in Annapolis, Maryland
 * Annapolis Junction, Maryland, an unincorporated community in Howard County
 * Annapolis, California, an unincorporated locality in Sonoma County
 * Annapolis, Illinois, an unincorporated community in Crawford County
 * Annapolis, Indiana, an unincorporated community in Parke County
 * Annapolis, Missouri, a town in Iron County
 * Annapolis, Ohio, an unincorporated community in Jefferson County

Canada

 * Annapolis (federal electoral district), a defunct federal electoral district in Nova Scotia
 * Annapolis (provincial electoral district), a current provincial electoral district in Nova Scotia
 * Annapolis County, Nova Scotia, a county in the province of Nova Scotia
 * Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, a town in Annapolis county
 * Annapolis Valley, spanning Annapolis, Digby and Kings county; containing the Annapolis River

Brazil

 * Anápolis, a city in Goiás

Films

 * Annapolis (1928 film), a 1928 silent film drama
 * Annapolis (2006 film), set at the US Naval Academy

Events and organizations

 * Annapolis Conference, a Middle East peace conference held in 2007
 * Annapolis Convention (1774–1776), the Revolutionary War government of Maryland
 * Annapolis Convention (1786), which led to the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787

Vessels

 * USS Annapolis, any one of four ships of the U.S. Navy named for Annapolis, Maryland, most recently the Los Angeles-class submarine USS Annapolis
 * Annapolis-class destroyer, a class of helicopter destroyers in Royal Canadian Navy service
 * The commercial trawler Annapolis, built in 1937, which became the USS Merganser (AM-135)

Other uses

 * Annapolis, a genus of spiders, with the sole species Annapolis mossi
 * Annapolis (horse), an American thoroughbred horse
 * NSS Annapolis, a transmitter station operated by the US Navy

title: Annapolis (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:History of conversion of Jews to Islam

Archive 1

Another failed AfD for this article...
This article was nominated for deletion on 2 January, 2007. A record of the discussion can be found here. The consensus was that the article should be kept, with a strong contingent supporting renaming. Tom e rtalk 19:42, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I strongly believe this article should be deleted.87.69.77.76 20:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

So if five Jews were converted to Zoroastrianism should we open article about that? It is ridicules.This article don't stand it the term of wikipedia even.

Changing the name
Suggestions? crz crztalk 19:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As I've already recommended, Jewish converts to Islam. My preference, however, is to create Category:Jewish converts to Islam as a subcategory of Category:Converts to Islam, take relevant parts of this article and use it as lead text for that proposed category, and dump the rest of it, most of which is unencyclopedic rambling.  Tom e rtalk  20:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Propose History of conversion from Judaism to Islam crz crztalk 20:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Since the discussion is dead, I've been bold. - crz crztalk 11:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no argument with your having done so, but...in the interest of rationality, now would be a good time for you to pare out "information" irrelevant to your preferred title. Thanks, Tom e rtalk  01:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I trimmed a bit this morning. You may feel free to help. - crz crztalk 01:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I still feel like deleting 90% of it is the best "help" possible for this article... Tom e rtalk 01:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There. That's my idea of cleanup.  Tom e rtalk  02:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Similarities between Islam and Judaism
You know I realise there's a lot more similarity between Judaism and Islam than Judaism and Christianity - firstly, it's to do with the concept of God. As we know, Jews and Muslims believe in a pure monotheistic form of god - the Oneness of God. Yet, Christians, on the other hand (and I don't mean to be discriminatory but just stating the truth) state that God is Three in One. In other words, worshipping Jesus as the Son of God since that he represents God along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. To me it doesn't seem like the Oneness of God. Secondly, Halal and Kosher. Though I cannot find proof that the Jews ask God for the blessing of the slaughtering of animals for eating, I notice that both have similar procedures using sharp knives and that only live animals can be slaugthered for eating - since that eating dead animals is not considered healthy. I know for sure that both religions practise male circumcision widely. Anything else that I'm missing? --Fantastic4boy 03:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Without opining on whether you're right or wrong, remember that this is an encyclopedia. Let's stick to facts, reliable sources, and history, and avoid pop-theology, comparisons, or sectarianism of any kind. We're unlikely to all agree here. - crz crztalk 03:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Everything Fanta4boy mentions is parts of Judaism watered down and adopted by Islam. That's hardly either spectacular or article-worthy.  Christianity also borrowed and watered down a lot of things from Judaism...more things, in fact, than Islam did.  In any case, no matter how "interesting" an individual editor might find the subject, similarities between Judaism and any other religion are completely irrelevant to this article.  Tom e rtalk  05:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View?
This article should be changes to contain a nore neutral point of view...right now it seems to present all jews who convert to islam as forced. There is no evidence to support this.
 * Yes, I agree with you. It seems bias to say that all Jews who are now practicing the Islamic faith were forcibly converted to that religion. Yes, it is true that there are some extreme Muslim dynasties such as the Safavids and some (if not all) of the Ottoman rulers, but how about those who voluntarily converted to Islam such as those seen in the early years of Muslim Spain adn those in moderate Muslim nations. You see the Koran clearly states in Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 2:256 there is "no compulsion in religion" and in Surah Al-Kafirun (The Disbelievers) "onto you be your religion, and onto me be my religion". So, it can't be that all of them were forcibly converted to this religion. People like Joseph Cohen (Yusuf Al-Khatab), a former New Yorker Kew who now lives in Israel, converted to Islam voluntarily. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.15.122.35 (talk) 22:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
 * It is not bias at all since more Jews were converted to Islam by force than by choice.Oren.tal 22:02, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Then tell me why Jews came running to the Ottoman Empire and tell me why there are still so many jews living in islamic countries that are still practicing Jews (ie Turkey, Tunisia, Morrocco).-Vmrgrsergr 02:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Islamic propaganda
All this article look like Islamic propaganda. I don't believe there are place in wikipedia for such thing. I am also wondering if there are article like conversation from Islam to Christianity?There is NO. I suggest to erase this article. It was created as propaganda and it is of no value except for some people that try to do propaganda. Ir it is not erased I also suggest to create article about conversation from Islam to Christianity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oren.tal (talk • contribs)
 * I agree. It does seem like propaganda. You are more than welcome to nominate it for an AFD. Hopefully it will be deleted.-- Sef rin gle Talk 05:26, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

 * There is no propaganda.There are groups of Jews who beleive that the God they worship is Allah hence "Jews for Allah." And there are sources right in the external links section coming from Jews so there is no propaganda.If you want to make such an accusation atleast provide something more than just your own personal opinion.-Vmrgrsergr 02:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm unsure how much the article has changed since the point which the above claim of "propaganda" was made, but in any case, it doesn't seem to be so much of a problem anymore. However, the existence of this page is problematic and unnecessary; the topic is not so unique as to warrant an article, and in that sense I wonder if propaganda-related motives come into play in this respect, at least (if they do at all). There is absolutely no reason why this tiny article shouldn't be merged into Judaism and Islam, or some even more relevant page. Perhaps I'll propose an official merge to that effect.--C.Logan (talk) 12:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I see something problematic with the existence of this article as-is. It seems apparent to me that this is a rather clunky topic that doesn't really have a strong foundation. It's not so much that the topic isn't based in reality, but the existence of the page seems rather contrived, when it would be more appropriately placed as a section at the page Judaism and Islam.

This becomes especially apparent when one notes the fact that this entire article is nothing more than a section with an introductory sentence and a paragraph of unsourced information which really doesn't say much of any importance (and is poor in comparison to the thorough elaboration on the issue and the context provided by the proposed destination article). Beyond this lone, meaty section, it has a short and rather trivial section on modern conversions which does little else but re-list names found on actual convert lists.

The relevant information within this article would be entirely appropriate within this section, and would elucidate on a topic which seems somewhat neglected there. Again, I don't believe there is any reason that this contrived topic deserves an anemic article when it has more relevance in use within an article dealing with the relation between the two religions. In summary, I propose that the information within History of conversion of Jews to Islam be merged into the "Historical interaction" section of Judaism and Islam.--C.Logan (talk) 12:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Excellent idea; please do it, and convert this one into a redirect. -- Gabi S. 19:22, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I did it. -- Gabi S. 19:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for taking the initiative.--C.Logan 20:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


text:
Parque de Bombas

The Parque de Bombas (firehouse) is a historic former fire station in Ponce, Puerto Rico. It is one of Puerto Rico's most notable buildings, with some considering it "by far the most easily recognized landmark in the Island."

The Parque de Bombas is located at the Plaza Las Delicias town square, directly behind Ponce Cathedral. Originally built in 1882 as a pavilion for an exhibition, it became Puerto Rico's first ever fire station. In 1990, the fire station closed and was converted into a museum. It was listed in the National Register of Historic Places on 12 July 1984.

History
The structure was built as the main exhibit pavilion for the 1882 Exhibition Trade Fair. The Madrid-based central government assigned the task of designing and constructing it to a Spanish Army officer, Lt. Colonel Máximo de Meana y Guridi who was also a trained architect and later served as Mayor of the city.

The building was unveiled at the fair. After the fair concluded, the pavilion became a fire station. The first firefighters to work in the building were stationed on 2 February 1883. In 1885, its official name was changed to Estación de Bomberos de Ponce (Ponce Fire Station).

In 1920, the building was used briefly as the Mayor's office as a result of the 1918 San Fermín earthquake that affected the city during that year.

In 1967 and due to the distinctive appearance and central location of this firehouse, the Ponce municipal flag was designed using the red and black colors of its iconic firehouse as its base colors. The Fireman's Band, originally played weekly concerts from an open second floor stage attached to Parque de Bombas. Now known as the Ponce Municipal Band, the band continues to play every Sunday evening, though in different locations. On 12 May 1960, a new fire station was built nearby at the junction of Calle Mayor and Calle Cristina. This new structure became the main fire station for the city, reducing Parque de Bombas to a secondary role.

Cultural significance
Since 1885, Parque de Bombas has been, and it is, an important cultural institution in Ponce. Its colors represent the city, its unique style represents a progressive and dynamic cultural center. The Banda Municipal de Ponce (formerly, the Fireman's Band), originally played weekly concerts from an open second floor stage attached to Parque de Bombas, now continues its plays every Sunday evening. Called "Retretas", they are part of a cultural program and tradition of the city of Ponce. The structure's extremely unusual format represents the brave firemen of Ponce, and its history. An inscription at Parque de Bombas reads, "This building is a symbol and commemoration of the importance vested by the residents of Ponce in the service, self-denial and courage of the Ponce Firefighters Corps. It is for this reason that the Ponce Firefighters Corps remains symbolically on this Plaza, in the heart of the city of Ponce." In 1943, the Firemen Services of Puerto Rico was created by legislation. Its main commitment is to extinguish fires, prevent fires, rescue services in natural disasters or emergencies, and to service the community.

Appearance
The basic structure measure 65'-8" in width by 26'-3" in length. It is two stories high with a tower at each corner of the Calle Marina front facade. The building is located in the city's central "Las Delicias Plaza" and it is attached to the Cathedral of Ponce at its rear boundary. Structurally, it is a wooden frame building with a pitched roof covered with galvanized zinc sheets. Exterior cladding is horizontal 1" by 6" wooden siding. Doors and windows are wooden. The windows are of the fixed louvered type, long, narrow, and crowned by an oversized fixed fan light.

The building's layout is a large, central space, flanked by two lateral towers, two stories in height, which opens to the main central area. The main central area is used as garage facilities for the fire trucks, and the two lateral towers are used as living quarters and exhibition areas. An elegant central two-sided stairway with elaborated cast iron railing leads to a mezzanine area used as administrative offices. Some interior partitions were removed from the first floor when the structure was altered for its new use as a firehouse in order to accommodate the machinery. The building has been kept in good condition throughout the years.

Architecture
Meana designed the building with a strong Moorish influence, including its basic rectangular plan with towers at its front corners, its ornate façade, its long and narrow windows with fans at its top and its bright colored paint scheme. Gothic revival architecture was also an influence. The building is painted red and black, Ponce's official colors. The interior is also very colorful, with vertical stripes of red and orange on the walls and a painted frieze with a fireman's motif.

Museum
After 108 years of service, Parque de Bombas was vacated by the Puerto Rico Firefighters Corps in 1990. It was converted into a museum of firefighting. The architect in charge of its restoration was Pablo Ojeda O'Neill. The newer fire station was taken over by the Instituto de Música Juan Morel Campos in 2008. Ponce's central fire station is now located 1 km east of Parque de Bombas on Miguel Pou Boulevard.

In popular culture
The firehouse is featured on the front cover of La Sonora Ponceña's LP salsa album titled "Fuego en el 23!".

title: Parque de Bombas


text:
Lamar High School (Arlington, Texas)

Lamar High School is a secondary school in Arlington, Texas. It is named for Mirabeau B. Lamar, the second president of the Republic of Texas, and serves grades 9 through 12 in the Arlington Independent School District.

History
Lamar opened in 1970 as Arlington Independent School District's third high school. Lamar relieved Arlington High School and Sam Houston High School. Cathy Brown of The Dallas Morning News said that Lamar's effect on Sam Houston was "minimal" because there were very few housing units located north of Division and east of Collins. Brown said that "[t]he effect on Arlington High School was huge" since the housing in the Arlington zone north to Division had been moved to Lamar. 12th grade students that had been zoned out of Arlington High School continued to attend Arlington High School, despite being in the Lamar zone.

In 1982, Martin High School opened. Brown said that Sam Houston and Lamar were "relatively unaffected" by the opening of Martin, located in southwest Arlington.

Feeder patterns
Ellis, Jones, Larson, Peach, Roquemore, Sherrod, and Webb Elementaries feed into Nichols Jr. High. Butler, Pope, Speer, and Wimbish Elementaries feed into Shackelford Jr. High. Nichols and Shackelford Jr. Highs feed into Lamar.

Notable alumni

 * Corinne Bohrer: film and television actress
 * Sean Lowe: Former Bachelor and television personality
 * Taylor Cole: Actress, Summerland and numerous other shows
 * Corby Davidson: Radio Personality, KTCK 1310 The Ticket
 * James Duff: Creator, executive director and head writer of TNT's The Closer
 * Fred Jackson: Buffalo Bills running back
 * Lauren Lane: Actress, The Nanny and other productions
 * Scott McGarrahan: Former NFL defensive back (1998–2005) for Green Bay Packers, Miami Dolphins, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers and Detroit Lions
 * Jeremy Wariner: Gold medalist in 400 meters and 4x400 relay at 2004 Summer Olympics, silver medalist in 400 meters and gold medalist in 4x400 relay at 2008 Summer Olympics
 * Mitch Willis: Former NFL defensive lineman (1985–90) for Oakland Raiders, Atlanta Falcons and Dallas Cowboys; played collegiately at SMU
 * Billy Miller: Actor, The Young and the Restless and All My Children; 2010 Daytime Emmy award winner, Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series
 * Mark M. Shelton: Texas House of Representatives District 97 (2009–2013), physician at Cook Children's Hospital
 * John Rayborn: Former UTEP Quarterback, playing in Canadian Football League and Arena Football League.
 * Shane Buechele: Quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs
 * Perry Minasian: General Manager, Los Angeles Angels, MLB
 * Bobby Brown III: NFL defensive lineman, currently with the Los Angeles Rams
 * Kyron Johnson: Linebacker for the Philadelphia Eagles
 * Isaiah Neyor: college football player for the Texas Longhorns
 * Derek A. Allen: went to Lamar High School

title: Lamar High School (Arlington, Texas)


text:
File:Black Friday 1912.jpg

A satirical illustration published in the Brisbane Worker newspaper of February 12 1912, condemning the behaviour of the Queensland Police, accused of brutality in dealing with the workers' protests on "Black Friday" February 2 during the 1912 Brisbane General Strike.

title: File:Black Friday 1912.jpg


text:
Talk:Income trust

Bell Canada Enterprises commentary in "New proposed rules for income trusts" section
"Following announcements by telecommunications giants Telus and Bell Canada Enterprises of their intentions to convert to income trusts, on October 31, 2006, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty proposed new rules that will effectively end the tax benefits of the income trust structure for most trusts."

 * This statement will need to be modified based on the following information: With the income trust option off the table, BCE has sharpened its tax planning pencil and figured out ways to delay full cash taxation until after 2010. The expectation for cash taxes in 2008 has dropped to ~$300 million from ~$800 million. So much for the Government's move to increase tax revenues by shutting down new trust conversions. It will be interesting to see if TELUS can announce similar tax "deferral" strategies on its guidance call on December 14.

This is from TD Waterhouse. I expect to see it reported thru the media in the coming days.

Use of YouTube Material on Canadian Income Trust Issue
I'm not sure its appropriate for this material to be posted on Wikipedia so I won't insert it into the article until I get a ruling.

The two clips are on YouTube and show Prime Minister Steven Harper promising not to tax income trusts. On October 31 Harper's broke that promise and this lead to Trust Investor capital losses of approximately $25-30 Billion Canadian Dollars.

I think the YouTube material is relevant and newsworthy but I want other points of view before I insert it into the main article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mibZYpVPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtiykp-WDG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SD9rfeZxLE

Regards DSatYVR 17:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

When would you do an income trust?
For a company with stable, predictable profits in a mature industry such as a Utility or a Real Estate Company. An Income Trust or Real Estate Investment Trust structure allows the company to earn income without being subject to corporate income tax. This allows the Income Trust to pay dividends to shareholders (referred to as unitholders) without "double taxation". That is, without the profits being first taxed to a corporation and then to a shareholder.

It is generally not appropriate when a company is growing and reinvesting it's profits because such companies pay no or low dividends to shareholders and the double taxation issue is not as important.

As an investor deciding whether to purchase shares in an income trust or taxable corporation, it depends on whether the investor needs cash flow from their investments (such as a retiree) or is investing for longer term capital gains.

Canadian laws for 2011
From the article: "income flowed out to investors will be subject to a new 34% tax" Shouldn't the number be "31.5%" from table 2 in the link? Shawnc 21:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * clarified. 34% now. 31.5% in 2001. Ground Zero | t 22:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality of "New proposed rules for income trusts" section
This section appears to be heavily weighted with arguments against the Canadian income trust rule changes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.144.179.91 (talk) 04:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC).
 * The challenge is too find sources that a writer can cite and support the taxation of Income Trusts. Although the proposed taxation is supported by the Conservatives and New Democratic Party, they have to date, offered no research, or other information to support the notion of tax leakage that is central to the debate. In fact just the opposite, the documents supplied by Department of Finance to the Commons Finance Committee during the Jan-Feb hearings were blacked out. Perhaps someone can supply an image of the blacked out Department of Finance Documents? The only image I am aware of is the Canadian Association of Income Trust Investors ads. I certainly don't think you want to see the ads in the article. 66.48.168.195 22:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The statement above seems to be a case of not looking very hard to find other points of view. In about two minutes on the web you can find numerous comments like this: " Many observers have argued that this change was inevitable. Certainly things could not continue on as they were. Income Trusts were not subject to corporate tax, so companies that were not Income Trusts had a huge incentive to convert to a Trust. In fact, it is not hard to argue that company directors had an obligation to consider conversion to an Income Trust in order to maximize shareholder value and income. When BCE and Telus recently made their moves to convert to Trusts the government had to act. It was time to level the playing field between Trusts and corporations or face the potential of every company in Canada converting into an Income Trust." In case this should sound overly measured, it is from the Ottawa Business Journal, an investment advisor [] with a CFA writing for individual investors. Note the writer then goes on to say that individuals still have plenty of reasons to be angry with the Cdn government. The arguments most frequently cited are not just about tax leakage, but about incentives to choose a specific corporate form being driven primarily by valuations driven by tax preferences. The argument does not have to be made or supported by having the government's tax leakage estimates, and there are outside sources that made tax leakage estimates that are also pretty significant.--Gregalton 23:07, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Hi Gregalton, the article you cited is from Nov 10, 2006. 10 days after the October 31 'Halloween Massacre' announcement. There has been a significant amount of research done since then by other analysts which makes one wonder where the Conservative Government got it's 'tax leakage' numbers from. It's impossible to make an assessment of where the 'Tax Leakage' numbers are coming from because the Conservative Government won't release their data, even at the request of the House Finance Committee during the Jan-Feb Meetings.

 * One of the quotes from the article you cited is especially interesting because it's been later proven to be wrong. The author quotes "When BCE and Telus recently made their moves to convert to Trusts the government had to act. It was time to level the playing field between Trusts and corporations or face the potential of every company in Canada converting into an Income Trust."

 * However, from the first paragraph of the New proposed rules for income trusts Brent Fullard of CAITI points out that "at the time of the announcement Telus and Bell Canada Enterprises did not pay any corporate taxes nor would they for for several years. Had Bell Canada Enterprises converted to a trust it would have paid $2.6 billion in the next 4 years versus no taxes as a corporation." The tax is in the hands of the individual investors at their marginal tax rate. You would think the government would encourage a sector which brought higher taxes to the government wouldn't you? I agree with you that Income trusts like every other entity are valuation driven, but to say that ITs cause tax leakage hasn't been proven by the Conservative Government. I would like to see some of your references from sources that prove significant tax leakage. Up to date information please. Not from last November. Cheers, DSatYVR 06:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The statement above that I was responding to was that "The challenge is to find sources that a writer can cite and support the taxation of Income Trusts." If that statement was to be limited to tax leakage issues only, then perhaps the point may be accurate. But there were and are lots of sources that cite other issues, such as the stampede to convert to income trust due to a (perceived) large valuation premium that was based primarily on (perceived) tax advantages. My point is simply that there are lots of sources that support the move to remove the (perceived) tax advantages; saying that there aren't would seem to demonstrate a lack of effort to express a neutral point of view. I have seen several quotes from CEOs/CFOs saying they felt forced to choose an income trust structure despite serious misgivings about its appropriateness for their business. To at least some degree this market impetus was based on perceived tax savings - and I won't attempt to debate whether tax savings for corporations is the same as tax leakage for the government, there are too many uncertainties.

 * And actually I disagree with your point about Bell/Telus. Demonstrating that they would not pay more taxes is not the same as demonstrating that they were not choosing a corporate structure based on market reactions. Bell and Telus were proposing to convert to get a higher valuation - and, judging by stock bounces when announced and after the govt's tax changes, this is how the market saw it too. Whether that market perception (about potential tax savings) was accurate is not exactly the same.--Gregalton 08:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Gregalton, I'm not sure what your point is regarding CEO reaction to the market and enhancing market value of the businesses they run. This happens across the entire equity market. Every board should and is looking for ways to enhance the market value of their business entity, at least they should be.

 * Put yourself in the place of a Canadian CEO during the 2006 Federal Election. Put yourself in the place of a Canadian Investor at the same time. Look for a moment at the greatest salesman of income trust conversions and decide what you would do:

 * Would you think Income trusts are safe based on this commitment?

 * How about this commitment? The great Income Trust Salesman at work

 * When the Prime Minister of Canada gives the sector a green light in a very public and committed way is it any wonder that every CEO and Investor took notice? I expect after the October 31st announcement many felt betrayed by Harper. My point is that there is a cause and effect. And there are economic consequences to those who believed and invested based on Harpers comments. The article is an attempt to portray the explain some of that. Cheers, DSatYVR 15:55, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The point on CEO reaction is this: very prominent business people believed that they had no choice but to choose one form of corporate legal structure (income trusts) even though they had grave concerns about it. They believe they had no choice because the market accorded a substantial premium to any business converting. As you say, every board has to seek value - and the value choice was driven by the perceived tax advantages, in the view of some.

 * But again, I'm not claiming that Flaherty did the right thing, that the government is good, that it should have been done, etc. I'm simply saying: there are currently about 9 of 12 or 13 paras in this section giving the "con" of Flaherty's decision. The other paras are mostly factual about the announcement. So, it does not appear that there has been much attempt to maintain NPOV, nor to finding and stating other points of view (and they are out there!). It currently reads like a diatribe against the government and not a balanced encyclopedia-like article.--Gregalton 17:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

 * To use an extreme example, I would also find it difficult to write the 'pro' POV of an article on genocide. How would one do it especially using credible references? In a similar way I find it a challenge to write a informed 'pro' article when the evidence weighs against the 'tax leakage' theory as put forward by the Conservative Government. The Conservatives have not released the Department of Finance research to rebut the 'con' arguments within the article. All I have to work with is blacked out documents. I'm sure many Canadian Investors who lost money would like to see the research behind the Conservative decision. To be clear, I am not the sole 'keeper' of the article. I invite you to provide the balance you seek by adding additional factual information with citations. If there is credible and up-to-date research on this subject that supports the 'pro' POV please bring it forward. Cheers DSatYVR 18:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, now that we've got the genocide comparison, Godwin's Law is in force. ;)
 * The point basically stands: this section of the article is really not NPOV, so I'll flag it as such and hope a good-natured soul can find time to make an attempt to establish some balance (I might at some point). Suggestions could include cutting some of the nine paras supporting one point of view and try to find any quotes/citations that support a different POV. Best regards.--Gregalton 20:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

 * So you're saying because you can't readily find any references to support your point of view you will suppress/cut-out the information that you find not to your liking, even if there are cited references and the information is useful to users? Is this a correct assessment of your train of thought Gregalton?

 * I suggest that you put some energy into finding citable references that support your POV and insert them into the article. You said there were many references out there on the 'net so this shouldn't be a problem, should it? I'm open to working towards an article that looks on both sides of the issue and working in good faith with anyone who does the same. I take issue with anyone who thinks they will suppress information they disagree with just because they disagree with it. In good faith I've asked you to provide citable references and research to provide the balance you seek. Will you work in good faith towards this goal? Regards, DSatYVR 23:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

 * You seem to misinterpret my comment. By "deletion," I was suggesting that the nine paras on one point of view seem to make the point ... repeatedly, repetitively, redundantly, and not neutrally. They could be edited down ("delete SOME of the nine paras", I believe I wrote) and make substantially the same point, but I did not actually cut them. I would have thought that making a suggestion about how to reduce the POV imbalance - explicitly, on a talk page - might be interpreted as discussion in good faith. So, no, your statement is not at all a correct assessment of my train of thought.
 * I'll try to source references, when I have time, as stated. But let's stop the accusations of "suppressing info", "taking issue," etc. It's unfounded.--Gregalton 00:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

 * As noted, here are some references. Searching for "income trust unfair advantage" in google gets most of these hits fairly easily:
 * ; 58% of CEOs and the like in G&M survey support the tax change. Quote "“I just don't see the logic in allowing a group of companies to pay dramatically lower taxes than private companies or companies that aren't organized that way,” Mr. Smith said. “I really don't see how [the government] had any choice.”
 * Letters of support from provincial finance ministers.
 * Quotes supporting the move (various sources).

 * And please note, I've not emphasized what I believe. Different points of view are possible, and a balanced article would present some of those points of view, particularly since some were directly mentioned by government, media, pundits, businesspeople, etc.--Gregalton 01:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'll look at an edit of the material. Give me a couple days. I've attempted to summarize the research reports in 1-2 sentences so I don't see much room to re-edit there but some of the quotes can probably go. I would also like to add some other elements:

 * the DoF backgrounder contains the statements:Canadian tax-exempt investors, such as Canadian pensions and RRSPs, are subject to tax neither on FTE income nor on dividend income. and A registered pension plan, a registered retirement savings plan (RRSP) or registered retirement income fund (RRIF) will not be taxed on the distribution. (For these unitholders the treatment of the distribution as a dividend has no direct effect). This statement is incorrect. Pensions and RRSPs are not tax-exempt, but tax-deferred. If memory serves correctly testimony at the Finance Committee hearing showed RRSP redemptions were $51 Billion vs $30 Billion in RRSP deposits in 2004 (I need to reference the StatsCan data - bear with me, I won't add it to the article until I can cite it). So the net effect is higher tax to the government, not less as the backgrounder indicates.

 * Liberals Propose New Income Trust Policy

 * Commons committee calls for trust tax changes

 * TAXING INCOME TRUSTS: RECONCILABLE OR IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES? Feb 28/07 Finance Committee Report

I think if we cooperate we can build an article which meets the expectations of all users. Regards, DSatYVR 05:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Fair enough, and thanks for looking at this with an open mind. While I agree with your point about tax deferred vs tax exempt, it is worth bearing in mind that tax deferrals are usually believed to result in lower overall taxation, because a) time value of money considerations, and b) any time a taxpayer can choose the time when tax is paid, they will likely withdraw at a time when they face lower marginal rates. Although everyone recognizes that in theory, and possibly in practice, the amounts accumulated could result in higher overall taxes due to growth in the value of the portfolio, there is a large amount of uncertainty. Muddying the waters is that it's also difficult to compare to capital gains taxes which provide a lot of flexibility to choose the time of taxation. So estimating how much more/less taxes are being paid is exceedingly difficult (and prone to vary widely depending on assumptions).Best, --Gregalton 15:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I understand what you are saying re:deferred vs exempt accounts but if there is evidence that total Deferred Plan (RRSP, RRIF, Pension) withdrawals exceed total Deferred Plan contributions doesn't that verify that the government is actually benefiting from the Deferred Plans? I realize taxpayers will generally withdraw when it is to their advantage to do so but I don't agree that RRSPs, RRIFs, and Pension plan withdrawals should be ignored completely as appears to be the case in the DoF Backgrounder. Tax is paid on withdrawal. I remember this point being made during the Hearing testimony--The current government is benefiting from Deferred Plan withdrawals today made by Canadians who made Deferred Plan deposits 20 years ago. To ignore these Deferred Plan withdrawals made today is misleading. The numbers will tell the tale when I find them. At any rate I'll be busy for the next few days but I will commit to a re-edit. Regards, DSatYVR 17:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

 * You're correct, it is of course relevant how much is withdrawn in total. But, to take a very rough stab at the type of calculation that has to be done (for the entire population) purely as an illustration. Assume (just for the sake of argument) $51 bln relates to $25 bln in deposits 25 years ago. Assume tax deferred at that time was 40%, or $10 bln. Of that $26 bln gain, assume interest, dividends and capital gains would have been received, but taxed at a lower rate of 20%, or about $5 bln (not in lump sum, but as a kind of annuity to the government over 20 years). So the govt "gave up" $15 bln in taxes in the past, or $12.5 bln in 20-year ago money (I allow, these tax rates may be a bit high). Now, the $51 bln is withdrawn, but due to most people withdrawing when they are in a much lower tax bracket, assume they only pay 25% tax on this (probably this tax rate is a high estimate, since most people will save on RRSP contributions at the highest marginal rate, but pay on a graduated rate when withdrawing). Govt gets about $10 bln now. Discount this $10 bln back 20 years at 6% - present value of $10 bln today was about $3.1 bln then. Net loss in constant dollars is (rough estimate) $9-10 bln.

 * Of course, the assumptions define the magnitude of the issue. If the original contributions that grew to $50 bln were $3 bln, no biggie. Length of time in contributions (20? 30 years?) makes a big difference. Discount rate chosen is also significant. Tax rates depend on income brackets of contributors and withdrawers, and we know RRSP holders tend to be in high income brackets (and, all else equal, to have lower pensions from other sources, and hence be in lower brackets after retirement). And so on, etc. Devilishly hard to make assumptions anyone could agree on, and any estimate subject to very large margin of error (and assumptions tested only over a generation).

 * Then there are the second-order effects: deferring taxes means higher taxes must be charged to other income now, which affects productivity. Allowing individuals to provide for pensions reduces risk, creates pool of investment funds, etc. Essentially, any economist could find any number of answers as to overall effect.

 * But biggest question that remains unanswered: what is the effect of allowing some companies to pay less tax now (even if overall taxes paid by recipients are higher)? If it creates unfair advantage, basis of competitive market economy is undermined. If it creates disincentives to reinvest profits, productivity may be harmed. And so on, etc.

 * Short form response is: I am heartily skeptical of all of the numbers and studies (including MinFin) due to the inherent uncertainties and magnitude of margin or error in estimates. But disadvantages of "unfair advantages" for some companies over others is a legitimate and major concern, particularly if no-one can say with certainty the long-term tax implications. Note that, of course, there is a major school of thought that says companies should not be taxed at all, and it has some validity (as do those that say only property should be taxed); what no school of thought suggests, however, is switching part-way for some companies and not for others. The implications are thought to be somewhat like switching to driving to the right side of the road, but phasing it in over a few years. Good luck with the thinking cap/research exercise, and I hope these (ill-formed) thoughts help.--Gregalton 18:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm tight on time today so I didnt read thru our comments completely. WRT your comment So the govt "gave up" $15 bln in taxes in the past, or $12.5 bln in 20-year ago money (I allow, these tax rates may be a bit high) I have to ask 1 question.

 * Why did past governments decide to allow Deferred plans such as RRSPs and RRIFs to exist? I think governments want Canadians to take responsibility for their retirement planning. Governments also "get back" funds by clawing back Retirement Benefits thru Government sponsored plans if Retiree income is deemed too high. The clawed back amount doesnt need to be funded either does it?

 * If I've taken your comments out of context I apologize. Got to go. DSatYVR 21:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Both good points, and undoubtedly there are other issues I haven't thought of. There is no question that the goal of allowing deferred plans was to encourage saving for retirement in a way that is sort of "locked up" (and harder to use for short-term needs). So that is an intended outcome, but of course the assumption when deferred plans were created was that money going in would be post-corporate and other taxes. So my analysis above is not really addressing the question of the "differential" tax leakage between income trusts and other companies - it was really about the issue of government getting "more" tax income in future from RRSPs (which I think unlikely). And there is some claw-back that should be calculated - my hunch is that this would not be significant (due to timing issues and the income levels it kicks in at), but I don't know enough about the levels the clawback kicks in at.--Gregalton 23:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I made some edits/moves to this section, but don't believe any constitute major changes.--Gregalton 23:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I should note that I'm also spending a bit of time looking at the papers cited. Despite the tone of the article, most of these papers are a lot more ambiguous than it would seem - with quite a bit of recognition of the issues Flaherty faced (while highly critical of both the details of thee final decision and the way it was done). I'm doing a bit of editing to add this flavour back. The CAIF papers, however, appear to be quite a bit less nuanced. In short, I look forward to any other points of view and research. I also note that I split the section into for and against, but perhaps that was not the best approach (thematic would be better, I think now). Best,--Gregalton 00:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

 * One additional question: the claim that the Bell/Telus proposed conversions would result in higher taxes and specifically "representing a substantial loss of shareholder value" seems dubious and needs checking. It seems to me that executives at these companies would be opening themselves up to significant, actionable legal claims if this assertion were true.--Gregalton 00:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Paragraph 1 - I'm not sure the market agrees with this statement either judging by the price action of Telus after they called off the conversion ... but would have lost the benefit of accumulated tax losses carried on their balance sheets, and the balance sheets of their subsidiaries, representing a substantial loss of shareholder value. Delete of modify? There is no reference to this in the originally cited reference in the paragraph.

 * Paragraph 2 - His report has been largely derided in the financial community as being inaccurate and prone to the mistake of not considering the taxes paid by owners of debt issued by corporations. No reference either. I'm inclined to delete unless a user can back this up with a reference. Any thoughts?

 * I havent had a chance to look at the FINA report yet. I think the FINA report, the Liberal plan and the DOF backgrounder deferred vs exempt arguments are worthy of mention. The links are further up the page. I'm having a rather busy few days here but I'll have a look in periodically. Regards, DSatYVR 07:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Fortin Testimony at February 1, 2007 Income Trust Hearings
I would like to direct attention to Yves Fortin's Testimony of Feb 1 2007 to explain why the tax exempt and tax leakage assumptions in the DoF Backgrounder make no sense. DSatYVR 17:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Yves Fortin (As an Individual): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the committee members to refer to the written statement and the papers that I have tabled to better understand the very telegraphic points I will make.

My thesis is that it is the implementation of the legislative proposals, and not the existence of the trusts, that will lead to a loss of tax revenue. The attempts to quantify the alleged tax leakage go back to the 2005 consultation paper. That study suffered from fundamental flaws. Because of its many incorrect assumptions, the study overestimated the taxes collected from corporations, and underestimated the taxes paid on trust distributions. The outdated numbers released by the minister and earlier by Mintz, are based on the same faulty methodology used in the consultation paper.

The worst source of leakage, according to the minister, are the RRSPs and the pension funds, because he treats them as tax-exempt, rather than tax deferred entities as they are under the law. In the medium- and long-term context, there could only be tax leakage if the present value of taxes paid in the future were inferior to the taxes foregone at the present time. This cannot be, since the yield on trust units is 8% or 10%, while the rate of inflation is about 2%.

The minister says he has to look at the issue from the point of view of the annual budget. This cash accounting method cannot be used to pretend that taxes are not paid, and that this causes him a problem. In 2004, Canadians contributed $38 billion to their tax deferred accounts, but we drew $52.5 billion of income fully taxed at their IS marginal rate. There is clearly no leakage, even on the basis of the current fiscal year.

The measures contained in the draft legislation will lead to a substantial loss of tax revenue for the following reasons.

The non-tax-deferred investors pay more taxes on trust distribution than they would if the trusts were corporations. This is because their taxes are calculated at the higher tax base and paid at higher tax personal rates. If most or all trusts be converted to corporations, as is clearly the intention of the minister, the taxes collected will be reduced substantially. Because of nearly double taxation of distributions, RRSP/RRIF-holders and pension funds will have to shift their investment to assets with lower yield. This will lead to lower retirement income year after year on top of the heavy capital losses they suffered. Less retirement income will lead to lower tax revenue, and more pressure on the social welfare system.

In view of this, there is clearly a need to adopt a package of measures to truly compensate people who lost a chunk of their retirement savings. The increase in the age tax credit worth $150 a year is pretty useless for a person who has lost $15,000. Pension income splitting is welcome, but it is highly discriminatory, and its linkage with the trust issue is purely artificial. Due to much higher taxation, non-residents will divest away from their trust units, and the government will lose the quasi-totality of the withholding taxes presently collected. The minister thinks these investors don't pay enough taxes, so his solution is to make sure that they will pay none.

Most provinces will be affected negatively, not only due to a global lower tax base, but also by the fact that trust distributions will be taxed by the province where the trust resides, and not by the provinces where the investors reside, as is now the case. Provinces like Quebec, B.C. and Manitoba that have an active investment community but host few or no trusts will be losers.

My overall conclusion, Mr. Chairman, is that the legislative proposals should be put on hold until:

1) a credible study based on sound methodology made by a neutral party is made to determine their impact on tax revenue; 2) a set of measures is put forward to truly compensate the losses suffered by persons saving for their retirement. The attitude of the minister is callous. 3) a set of criteria and regulations is proposed to determine which types of enterprise should be allowed to convert and those which should not.

It is the absence of such criteria, Mr. Chairman, and regulations that has led to the destructive overkill and the damage that we are witnessing. The minister did not have to destroy the trust sector in order to prevent the undesirable proliferation of conversions, such as EnCana, Hibernia, [Inaudible--Editor] and TELUS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Jbacu1985 19:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC) I'd question the impartiality of Mr. Fortin given the hyperbole in his testimony. (There is more detail on Mr. Fortin's views in a paper available on the Canadian Association of Income Funds' website [www.caif.ca] (CAIF is a lobby group for the income funds industry.)

Fortin discusses the "double taxation" of trust distributions after the legislative changes. He doesn't point out that there is some "double taxation" on most investments. Corporations cannot deduct dividend distributions - which are paid to shareholders on an after tax basis. The individuals receiving the dividends must then pay personal income tax on the amount.

It's true that before the most recent changes, income trusts had lower 'costs of capital' - and this helped them grow. However, a generally lower tax rate - with income trusts and traditional corporations being treated equally - would have also fuelled growth.

Ponzi Scheme?
''However, many detractors of income trusts argue that income trusts are Ponzi schemes because a substantial portion of the 'distribution' from an income trust consists of Return of Capital, in other words, a return of one's original investment, rather than actual business operating earnings. Detractors further argue that distributions for certain trusts, particularly in the oil and gas sector, are actually partially financed by the issuance of new equity, and not by actual cash flows generated by business assets.''

Income trusts use ROC to varying degrees. Some do not distribute any income as ROC so this statement casts a fairly wide net. Kind of like saying Enron is bad so all stocks are bad. Can the original author work on this please? Thanks DSatYVR 00:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Under Investor Risks - Although income trusts are not in themselves Ponzi schemes, when the market treats the return of capital as income they become one. Can the author please expand on this statement because my understanding is quite different from yours. Referring to Return of Capital on Wiki, I see several plausible examples how and why ROC is applied, none of which are illegal or a 'ponzi scheme'. To imply Income Trusts are doing something illegal by using ROC as part of the distributions should be backed up by a cited reference. DSatYVR 23:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Although income trusts are not in themselves Ponzi schemes, when the market treats the return of capital as income they become one. This statement, to my knowledge has no basis in fact. If the original author can cite which Income Trusts have attracted the attention of regulatory authorities for accounting irregularities please feel free to reinsert. I direct your attention to AOG.UN trading on the TSX. From the website Tax advantaged structure - distributions are expected to be 100% return of capital for first 7 years. If you need examples of other Income Trusts that have high ROC let me know. DSatYVR 15:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Bell Canada references
This page is cited as a reference. Given that it is entitled "To Jim 'It's not my fault' Flaherty", and the content, I for one don't see how this can be considered a credible reference. It's pure propaganda. While the arguments can and should be made, they are not made in this reference, at least not credibly. I propose to delete this bit until a better reference can be found.--Gregalton 01:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

 * The math is fairly straight forward on this, and because the Harper government hasn't released anything but blacked out, heavily censured documents which prove nothing like this I haven't been able to find anything else out there. Seems like the government doesn't really have a case against Income Trust taxation. DSatYVR 15:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Taxes for privately held companies
The statement at the end of the article ("Since this time, BCE has announced that they will go private and pay no corporate taxes.") completely misconstrues the meaning of 'going private'.

In the case of BCE, the corporation is going private in the sense that no shares will be traded on public stock exchanges. This is a change of the nature of ownership - not of the tax structure of the company itself. If privately held companies were tax exempt, there would be no publicly traded ones.

It is not clear whether the author of the section is purposely obfuscating - or simply does not know what he's writing about.Jbacu1985 17:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Investor Risks section
When distributions include return of capital the investor is really receiving his own capital back through the distributions. Not sure about this sentence either. The Investor is receiving excess cash from operations. In the case of REITs the Return of Capital is equal to the CCA. For oil and gas Royalty Trusts, ROC is equal to the depletion of reserves. DSatYVR 15:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

CAITI external link removal

 * Canadian Association of Income Trust Investors
 * CAITI-ONLINE-MEDIA Compilation of past print and video ads from CAITI
 * CAITI-ONLINE Current commentary on Canadian Income Trust issues.

It does a heart good to realize that CAITI, a legit and registered Canadian Investor advocacy group is singled out for special treatment and deleted whenever possible. Why the fear? Or more to the point what is the legitimate reason for the deletions? DSatYVR (talk) 03:58, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Income trust


text:
Snap matchlock

The snap matchlock is a type of matchlock mechanism used to ignite early firearms. It was used in Europe from about 1475 to 1640, and in Japan from 1543 until about 1880, and was also largely used by Korea (Joseon) during the Imjin war to the early 20th century.

Description
The serpentine (a curved lever with a clamp on the end) was held in firing position by a weak spring, and released by pressing a button, pulling a trigger, or even pulling a short string passing into the mechanism. The slow match held in the serpentine swung into a flash pan containing priming powder. The flash from the flash pan travelled through the touch hole igniting the main propellant charge of the gun. As the match was often extinguished after its relatively violent collision with the flash pan, this type fell out of favour with soldiers, but was often used in fine target weapons.

In Japan the first documented introduction of the matchlock which became known as the tanegashima was through the Portuguese in 1543. The tanegashima seems to have been based on snap matchlocks that were produced in the armory of Goa in Portuguese India, which was captured by Portugal in 1510. There were two different lock mechanisms used in Indo-Portuguese matchlock guns. One has a single leaf mainspring of the Lusitanian gun prototypes, which can be found in Ceylon, the Malay peninsula, Sumatra, and Vietnam, and the other has a V-shaped mainspring, and can be found in Java, Bali, China, Japan, and Korea.

title: Snap matchlock


text:
Pierre Menard (disambiguation)

 * Pierre Menard (1766-1844) was the first Lieutenant Governor of Illinois, United States.

Pierre Menard may also refer to:
 * Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote, a fictional character by Jorge Luis Borges
 * Pierre Menard (1941 - August 3, 1994, AIDS), American violinist, and concertmaster for The Neon Philharmonic and second violinist for The Vermeer Quartet

title: Pierre Menard (disambiguation)