text:
Talk:Godiva's Hymn

Chorus Differences?
At both Carleton and Queen's University, the main choruses (male/female) are usually as follows:

 * We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers,
 * We can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers,
 * Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
 * For we don't give a damn for any old man who don't give a damn for us!

 * We are, we are, we are, we are the female Engineers,
 * We can, we can, we can, we can drink just as many beers,
 * Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
 * For we don't give a fuck for any old fuck who can't get it up for us!

 * At MIT, there's one chorus, which is identical to the "male" one you give, except for the the third line. We have, "Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum all day and come along with us".  Is a "variations" section in order?  And where, exactly, do they sing "we don't give a damn for any damn man" (the version the article gives)? --Victor Lighthill 07:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I would agree - this is a variant; having visited and attended a number of unviersities, all that I'm aware of us the same 3rd line...this all day is a variant at MIT.

- 09 Oct 2007

"We don't give a damn for any damn man" is used by the University of Waterloo. 24.57.52.187 (talk) 18:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Since 1921?
Can anybody source the claim that dates the song to "earlier than 1921?" I've poked around, but can't find anything on the web. --Victor Lighthill 18:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I can't find a reference to this song as early as 1921. I recommend removal of this statement. Can anyone justify it? John Mehlberg 19:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It was added by Sveiki, if I'm reading the history right. I've added a question to Sveiki's talk page. --Victor Lighthill 07:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

 * BTW, I can personally confirm that my great uncle, who went to MIT in the late 40's, remembers this song. Of course, that's not verifiable. --Victor Lighthill 08:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletion Response
This entry was proposed for deletion by User:Pm shef. This user, among others, pointed out some unverifiable content (specifically the claim that Godiva's Hymn was first sung in 1921. I have removed this claim until I am able to find a citation for it.

Also in question is Wikipedia's encyclopedic nature not being a depository for lyrics. When this was pointed out, I read a little into Wikipedia policy and found that I quite agreed with User:Pm shef, especially considering the external links provide a comprehensive set of lyrics to the song.

I do, however, disagree with this user on the notability of the entry. It is referenced from other articles and is of cultural interest for the academic and engineering communities. To this end, I have reduced the article to the pure encyclopedic and verifiable entry it should be.

Sveiki 04:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

LGMB sings the hymn to the tune of Good King Wenceslas?
I have been at UofT Engineering for 5 years and I am a part of the LGMB. I have never heard the hymn sang to the tune of Good King Wenceslas. It'd be great if someone has an audio file of it, I'd be interested. Otherwise, remove? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.60.41 (talk) 01:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Another tune
I learnt the parody version in England in the 1960s as a rugby song, to the tune of "Frog Went A-Courting". Narky Blert (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Source for origin in Army Corps of Engineers
I'm looking at the page cited in the source (p. 122) that claims the song originated with the Army Corps of Engineers. Except the source doesn't say that. It merely refers to "MIT's fight song," gives some lyrics, then states: "The song is sometimes referred to as 'Godiva's Hymn.' A version known among army engineer battalions as 'The Engineer Hymn' or 'The Engineers' Drinking Song' of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is similar. Its chorus goes..." After some lyrics, the text continues and just mentions that the army versions have "numerous verses, many of which are, if not identical, then similar, at least in spirit to those in the MIT song."

There's nothing in this text that claims one version of the other is the original. To the contrary, an actual scholarly work on American song, "The Erotic Music: American Bawdy Songs" by Ed Cray, notes on p. 330 that the tune has been used for generations by various groups and to various texts, but the citation based on an archivist at the Library of Congress found the earliest text version of the Godiva song (originally only entitled "Godiva") in an MIT songbook from the 1950s. It's also notable that the tune in question, "The Song of a Gambolier," was commonly appropriated by college glee clubs in the early 20th century.

I don't see any proof that the Godiva song originated for certain at MIT, but there doesn't seem to be any citation that it originated with the military either. Given the history of the tune's association with college glee clubs, the text could just as easily have come from an engineering college. For that reason, I am removing the claim from the article about the origin and replacing it with more neutral language. If anyone can find a more solid source, feel free to cite that with details. 71.68.134.79 (talk) 05:04, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Great Big Wheel relationship?
A large portion of the article is taken up with lyrics from a song about the "Great Big Wheel." It's unclear that this song bears any resemblance or has any relationship whatsoever to the "Godiva's hymn" that is the subject of the article, much less is an actual parody of it. It may be *an* engineer's song, but it's clearly not the Godiva song.

I would recommend the entire section on the "parody" be deleted unless a source can be produced that clarifies the relationship to the article subject. 71.68.134.79 (talk) 05:14, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Sexism/implication of engineering being "males only" /males club
Has this been addressed? Can we add an article section for it? JointCompound (talk) 03:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Godiva's Hymn


text:
Hobie Cat

Hobie Cat is a company that manufactures watercraft and other products as the Hobie Cat Company. "Hobie Cat" can also refer to specific products of the company, notably its sailing catamarans. Its fiberglass catamaran models range in nominal length between 14 ft and 18 ft. Rotomolded catamaran models range in length between 12 ft and 17 ft. Other sailing vessels in the Hobie Cat lineup include, monocats, dinghies, and trimarans, ranging in length between 9 ft and 20 ft. Its largest product was the Hobie 33, 33 ft in length. The company's non-sailing product line includes surfboards, kayaks, stand-up paddle boards, pedalboards, eyeware, and e-bikes. It was founded in 1961 by Hobart (Hobie) Alter, who originally manufactured surfboards.

History
Alter opened a surfboard shop (a relatively new sport at the time) in the late 1950’s, but his focus changed in 1961 towards designing an easily beached, fiberglass catamaran.

The impetus of this shift is attributed to a 1961 boat show in Anaheim, California, where Alter sold surfboards adjacent to the designer of the 1961 Aqua Cat 12 sailboat, which featured lightweight fiberglass hulls with an aluminium tube structure supporting a trampoline style deck for seating. Following the 1961 boat show, Alter contacted Arthur "Art" Javes to tell him he was also entering the fledgling catamaran market. The first production Hobie Cat was launched on July 4, 1968 and featured a structure similar to the Aqua Cat, but slightly heavier with asymmetrically-shaped hulls that did not rely on dagger boards. This design was more readily beached than the Aqua Cat or Pacific Cat.

In 1969, Hobie released the Hobie 16, their most popular catamaran and the world's largest one-design catamaran class. Over 135,000 Hobie 16 Cats have been built. This was followed by many other similar beachcats in the 1970’s & 80’s as the popularity of sailing and Hobie Cats especially exploded… Hobie introduced the Hobie 18 in 1976, the Hobie 17 in 1985, the Hobie 21 in 1987, the Hobie 18SX in 1989, the Hobie 17 Sport in 1990, the Hobie 20 in 1991, and the Hobie 21 Sport Cruiser in 1992.

In 1996, Hobie introduced the Pursuit kayak, the first of a new generation of boats built using rotomolded polyethylene. This production method is less expensive and time consuming than the fiberglass molds used in the original series of catamarans, and results in a very strong and durable hull, but one which is not as smooth or light as those produced using fiberglass. After perfecting the rotomolded technique on a series small kayaks the company offered their first rotomolded catamaran, the Hobie Wave in 1994. The largest of the rotomolded catamarans, the Hobie Getaway was launched in 2000, then the smallest, the Hobie Bravo was launched in 2001. Hobie also introduced their “mirage drive” on their kayaks in 1997, designed to quickly and efficiently propel the boats through the water, while still allowing shallow draft operation, as the drive “folds up” against the bottom of the hull when not in use. Hobie kayaks began to quickly outsell the catamarans in the 2000’s, and became a significant focus of the company, with Hobie introducing fishing and sailing variants, along with SUPs (first introduced in 2005).

Hobie began discontinuing many of its catamaran designs in 2003, initially with the Hobie 17 & 18, then the Hobie 21SC, Hobie 14, Hobie 20 and Hobie Bravo, as the sailing market contracted and the boats were no longer selling enough to justify continued production. Kayak sales had begun to far eclipse sailboat sales, thanks in part to the popularity of the mirage drive and Hobie’s rugged, high quality recreational & fishing-focused designs. Hobie continued to support all of the discontinued boats with parts and accessories, in many cases for decades after discontinuation. Their current production line consists of the Hobie 16, Hobie Wave, Hobie Getaway, Hobie Mirage Tandem Island, along with numerous kayak and SUP models.

Changes in ownership
Hobie Alter sold the Hobie Cat Company to the Coleman Company in 1975. In 1982, Coast Catamaran (The official name of the Hobie Cat Company at that time) bought dinghy company Vagabond and its line of dinghy designs from Ron Holder and produced a series of dinghy’s (Hobie Hawk, Hobie Holder 12, Hobie Holder 14, Hobie Holder 17 & Hobie Holder 20) and monohulls in the 1980’s and 1990’s, including a 33 foot keelboat (Hobie 33), all of which were quite successful, though they never reached the same popularity as their signature catamarans and were discontinued not long thereafter.

In 1989, the Hobie Cat Company was split between Hobie Cat Company (North America) and Hobie Cat Europe and sold separately, the latter of which began operating independently and designing and producing its own catamarans. The two companies shared worldwide production & distribution rights to the Hobie Cat designs, but otherwise operated as separate entities. Hobie Cat Europe went on to introduce many race oriented catamaran designs and has been the impetus behind most of the “modernization” of Hobie’s production line, with most of Hobie North America’s designs remaining fixed since the 1980’s & 90’s or moving towards rotomolded boats, SUPs and kayaks, which Hobie focused on heavily in the 2000’s. Hobie Europe is responsible for all of Hobie’s Formula 18 and Formula 20 boat designs, as well as several other race and youth sailing boats. Most of Hobie Europe’s production line was not made available in the US, except to owners willing to pay to have them imported. Notable exceptions are the Hobie Tiger and Hobie Wildcat, which were eventually offered in the US to compete with F18 offerings from Nacra, as the popularity of F18 racing in the US grew. Hobie Europe also built their own variant of the Hobie 18 which featured pivoting/retractable centerboards instead of daggerboards. Hobie Europe also spawned a further subdivision, Hobie Australasia, in 2000.

In 1995, The Hobie Cat Company (North America) was sold again to a new private owner.

The Hobie Cat Company purchased back Hobie Europe and its subsidiary Hobie Australasia in 2012, combining the three into one company again. Hobie Europe found itself struggling under the weight of a wide range of boat models, compared to the relatively few offerings of Hobie North America (which had discontinued much of its catamaran production at that time and consolidated production around the Hobie 16, rotomolded boats and kayaks).

The Hobie Cat Company was sold in March 2021 to venture capitalists, including Maynard Industries. In November 2022, Hobie entered an agreement with Starting Line Sailing to produce Hobie 16’s in Bristol, RI, after production had lagged significantly due in part to supply chain and logistics issues during the COVID-19 pandemic. On December 12, 2023, that arrangement was terminated.

Watercraft
Hobie has made a large variety of catamarans and dinghy’s since the company’s inception, beginning with the Hobie 14 and later the Hobie 16. They’re most famous for their fiberglass catamarans, though the company has made significant numbers of rotomolded boats beginning in the 1990’s and 2000’s. While the company briefly produced dinghy’s and monohulls in the 1980’s as well, they never reached anywhere near the same popularity as their catamarans and were discontinued after a handful of years.

Hobie 14
The Hobie 14 was the original catamaran designed by Hobie Alter in 1968. The 14 was originally designed to be sailed from the beach through the surf and back, with features to make sailing on and off the beach easier, such as the iconic "banana" shaped hull profile, kick-up rudders and asymmetric hulls. It's a unirig design with a single sail, designed to be sailed solo or "singlehanded." Hobie later introduced the Hobie 14 "Turbo" or the "turbo" conversion kit, which added a roller furling jib, trapeze and dolphin striker. No longer manufactured by Hobie North America, the Hobie 14 was discontinued in North America in 2004, but is still produced in limited numbers by Hobie Europe and Hobie Brazil.

The Hobie 14 is very sensitive to weight placement fore and aft as a result of the banana hull shape. In rough water, strong winds or weight placed too far forward, the leeward bow is somewhat prone to "dig in," resulting in what is known asa "pitchpole."

The Hobie 14 has a D-PN of 86.4 with the Turbo version faster at 83.1.

Hobie 16

Hobie introduced the Hobie 16 in 1969, and it went on to become the most popular catamaran ever built, both for recreational sailing and as a one-design racer. It was developed to be a bigger, more stable upgrade to the Hobie 14, designed for a crew of two. The boat is 16 ft long, 7 ft wide, has a mast 26 ft tall, and weighs 320 lb. As with the 14, it is intended to be sailed from the beach through the surf, and to be surfed back in on the waves to the beach, with many of the same features and similar asymmetric "banana" hulls. Both jib and main sails are fully battened and total 218 sqft. A double trapeze system comes standard on the Hobie 16. The Hobie 16 is still in production around the world.

Hobie 18
Hobie introduced the Hobie 18 in 1976 as a significant upgrade in sailing performance, tunability and capacity as compared to the Hobie 16 and 14. The Hobie Class Association consider the Hobie 18 the most versatile of all the Hobie beachcats. The Hobie 18 was designed to be not only fast but also rugged. It is designed to be sailed by a crew of two, but can easily carry four passengers when cruising. Experienced sailors can sail the Hobie 18 solo. Unlike the Hobie 14 and 16, the Hobie 18 has symmetrical hulls, using daggerboards to maintain course stability. The boat features a fully battened mainsail and rolling/furling jib. A double trapeze system is also standard equipment on the Hobie 18. Hobie introduced "wing seats" for the Hobie 18 in the early 1980's with wings that extended from the front to rear crossbar. These later became known as "magnum" wings when Hobie introduced the Hobie 18SX in 1987 which featured a taller mast and longer wings, which extended approx. 20 in beyond the crossbars for more flexibility on weight placement. The SX model featured a 19 in taller mast, higher aspect mylar sails. Wings of both types, magnum and SX, are in much demand today due to the added comfort and space provided. They add about 40 lb. Much to the dismay of many Hobie enthusiasts, the Hobie 18 is currently no longer produced.

Hobie 17
The Hobie 17 was introduced in 1985 and was available in two trim 'packages': the SE and the Sport. The SE version was a unirig boat with a mainsail only and wings, and was designed to be singlehanded. The Sport version included a jib and a small boomlett that was not attached to the mast and was intended for recreational sailing by two people. It was 17 ft long, 8 ft wide, had a 27 ft mast and 168 sqft of sail area (200 ft2 or 18.6 m2 with the jib). Both models had swinging centerboards and 'wings'. The uni-rig or catboat sail plan allows the 17SE to 'point' well, or sail closer to straight upwind than many other sloop-rigged catamarans. The Hobie 17 was discontinued in 2003.

The Hobie 17 had a Portsmouth Number of 783. The SE version had a D-PN of 74.0 and the Sport version had 74.5.

Hobie 21SC
The 21SC (for Sport Cruiser) was Hobie Cat's first 'family boat'. Intended for casual sailing, this boat has a front trampoline, wings, an outboard motor-mount, and a built-in cooler. Though larger than the Getaway at 21 ft long, 8 ft wide, with a 29 ft mast and 222 sqft of sail, it could be raced off a D-PN of 74.5. The 21SC was quickly displaced by the more rugged, cheaper Getaway and has been phased out by Hobie Cat.

Hobie 21SE
The 21SE hulls are similar to the 21SC but the similarities end there, the 21SE is a performance oriented boat. It is no longer in production but it had a beam of nearly 10 ft, and 14 ft with the wings. The boat was intended for a racing crew of two or three adults. It also had centreboards instead of daggerboards a 33 ft mast and 300 sqft. of sail. It weighs 700 lb and has a D-PN of 67.0. It had arched, curved crossbars. It was raced as a one design boat in professional racing circuits. The boat is fast and stable but probably saw low production numbers because of its weight, the need to telescope the hulls for trailering and because it is difficult to right the boat if it capsizes without outside assistance.

Miracle 20
Introduced in 1991, the Miracle 20 has 250 sqft of sail area and high aspect ratio mylar sails, as yet another significant performance improvement over the Hobie 18. The Hobie 20 eliminated the hull lip, a significant source of drag, and moved towards higher aspect ratio sails and daggerboards. The 20 was 19 ft long, 8 ft wide, with a 31 ft mast, weighed 420 lb, and had a D-PN of 65.0. The Hobie 20 was discontinued in 2007 after a 16 year production run. The Miracle 20 was designed by Jack Groeneveld, a Dutch catamaran sailor (European champion Prindle 19, winner of the Prindle 19 nationals etc.)

TriFoiler
The Hobie TriFoiler was one of the fastest production sailboats ever created. Introduced in 1994, it was based on a series of boats designed by Greg and Dan Ketterman and sailed by Russel Long, which eventually culminated in Long setting the A-Class Catamaran world sailing speed record in 1992 in the boat "Longshot". That record remains unbroken. The TriFoiler is based on Longshot and this sailing hydrofoil stands as the most unusual of Hobie Cat's boats. Also designed by Greg Ketterman, this trimaran has two sails, one on each ama, and hydrofoils that lift the hulls out of the water at wind speeds of 10 –, allowing the boat to reach speeds up to 45 mph and pull over 2 g in gybe turns.

The TriFoiler was 22 ft long, 19 ft wide, weighed 145 kg, and was sailed from a "cockpit" by two people. The boat was fitted with two 18 ft tall masts, with a total sail area of 215 sqft. It was the largest multihull boat built by Hobie Cat, with 170 produced between 1995 and 1999; another 30 were built independently prior to production starting at Hobie Cat. Production ceased because of limited popularity; the boat was expensive and fragile, and could be used only in low-wave conditions with winds between 10 and 25 mph.

Hobie Tiger
The Hobie Tiger, a Hobie Cat Europe import, was Hobie Cat's entry into the Formula 18 multihull class. The Tiger was very popular and successful both in class racing and Formula 18. At 18 ft long, 8 ft wide, with a 29 ft mast and 227 sqft of sail area (452 sqft with the spinnaker). It weighs in at a minimum of 396 lb as to conform to the Formula 18 specifications. The class D-PN is 62.1. Though originally only available in Europe, many were imported and sold in the US. At its introduction, it was a very competitive F18 boat, but had been eclipsed by newer F18 designs by the end of its production run.

Hobie Fox
The Hobie Fox was designed by Hobie Cat Europe to meet the Formula 20 racing class rules. The hull shape was designed by world champion A-Class sailor Nils Bunkenberg. It had a modern wave-piercing hull design. It had a double trapeze, asymmetrical spinnaker with snuffer retrieval system, high aspect ratio daggerboards, race rudders, and sails designed by Giorgio Zuccoli. It was 20 ft long, had an 8 ft beam and weighed 419 lb. Mainsail area was 194 sqft. Jibsail area was 52 sqft. Spinnaker area was 269 sqft. With a D-PN of 60.4, the Fox was at one point the fastest of the Hobie family.

Hobie Dragoon
The Hobie Dragoon was designed by Hobie Cat Europe as a youth trainer for racing. Age target was 12 to 14 years. Double trapeze and spinnaker option to introduce young sailors to high performance. Length: 12 ft, Beam: 7 ft, Mast Length: 21 ft, Sail Area: 118 sqft. Main plus Jib, Weight: 230 lb. D-PN: 83.0

FX-One
The FX-One was designed and produced by the France-based Hobie Cat Europe company. The boat was designed both for single-handed racing (mainsail + gennaker) and dual-crew sailing (jib + mainsail + gennaker). In both configurations, this boat is eligible for the IHCA racing class. In the two-sailor configuration, this boat is also eligible for the Class 104 multihull class. Relatively uncommon in North America, the FX-One is 17 ft long, with a 27 ft mast and 172 sqft of mainsail area, 3.98 m2 of jib area, 17.5 m2 of gennaker area, and weighs in at 326 ft with the dual crew set-up. It features wavepiercing hulls, and daggerboards. The D-PN is listed as 70.1 without spinnaker and 68.5 singlehanded with spinnaker.

Hobie Pacific
The Hobie Pacific was based on the Hobie Tiger design, but had skegs instead of daggerboards, a smaller rig, and no boom. The boat was intended to be easier to handle than a F18 boat, and targeted at sailing schools. Sail area was 211 sqft, the optional spinnaker was 200 sqft.

Hobie Wildcat
The Hobie Wildcat was introduced in 2009. It is Hobie's latest Formula 18 boat and has the same measurements, weight, and sail area as the Hobie Tiger, per F18 box rules. The boat features wave-piercing bows, a flat bottom in the stern for better planing, and high aspect ratio mainsail & daggerboards.

Rotomolded boats
This series of boats is created of rotomolded polyethylene plastic and is intended for casual and new sailors.

These can be split into two main categories, Hobie Cat USA rotomolded boats and Hobie Cat Europe rotomoulded boats. The boats from the US include the Bravo, Wave and Getaway, whilst the European range consists of the Catsy, Teddy, Twixxy, Max and Tattoo or "T2".

Hobie Bravo
The Bravo is the smallest the Hobie rotomolded catamarans at 12 ft and is intended for one person but can carry two. The relatively narrow beam (4 ft) compared to its 19 ft mast leads to considerable heeling, or tipping of the boat compared to other catamarans. The Bravo has the distinction of being able to furl its sail around the mast. The D-PN is 100.0.

Hobie Wave
The Hobie Wave is intended for one to four passengers, but is easily handled by one with its 13 ft length, 7 ft beam, and 20 ft mast. The Wave was designed by the Morelli/Melvin Engineering firm, and has proved to be extremely popular with beach resorts and rental operations. It is often praised for being rugged and easy to sail. While described as slow and underpowered by catamaran standards, it has a D-PN of 92.1, similar to a Laser (dinghy) that is often considered to be a performance dinghy. Although marketed as a recreational sailboat, an owner-controlled racing class has organized and held regattas since 1998.

Hobie Getaway
The Hobie Getaway is marketed as a "social boat" and is designed with room for up to 6 people, more than Hobie Cat's other boats. The boat has a trampoline both forward and aft of the mast, and is the only rotomolded Hobie to come stock with a jib and have an available trapeze. At 16 ft, the Getaway is the same length as the Hobie 16; the beam is 7 ft and the mast is 25 ft tall. It has a D-PN of 83.3.

Hobie Tattoo or "T2"
The Hobie Tattoo or "T2" was a "performance oriented" ABS boat, sold primarily in Europe, though a few were sold in the US before the boat was ultimately discontinued.

Hobie Holder series
The Hobie Holder boats were originally Designed by Ron Holder and produced by Vagabond sailboats, which was later bought by the Coast Catamaran Corporation (Hobie Cat) and sold under the Hobie brand name in the 1980s. It was a series of monohull dinghys of various sizes from 9' 0" to 20' 0" in length. All were discontinued by the end of the decade. Previous versions were sold under the "Vagabond" name, as well as several others, such as the "Vagabond 14," "O'day 14", "Monarch 14" and "Hobie One-14."

Hobie 10
The Hobie 10 was a small dinghy produced as a response to the Laser dinghy. It has been discontinued.

Hobie 33
The Hobie 33 is a 33 ft monohull lift-keel boat designed to be very light and very fast. It is considered a ULDB or ultralight displacement boat, a sportsboat. It was intended to be a trailerable, one design racer/cruiser. To be trailerable in all US states without special overwidth road permits, beam was kept to just 8 ft, which is quite narrow for a boat of this length, although the Hobie 33 was advertised as being capable of sleeping 7 people. A total of 187 Hobie 33s were built between 1982 and 1986.

The design was the brainchild of Hobie Alter and Sheldon Coleman Sr. To start the project a Bill Lee designed ULDB Santa Cruz 27 named "Redline" was purchased, analyzed and then raced in southern California. Once the design stage started Lewie and John Wake were brought in to lend racing yacht design experience. Hobie 18 designer and legendary surfer Phil Edwards designed the keel and rudder.

There is an active North American class association and national championships yearly. The Hobie 33 is still a competitive offshore sailing yacht and as recently as 2006, 'Mad Max' was the Overall Winner in the Newport to Ensenada International Yacht Race, beating vessels of all lengths from 26 – on corrected time using the PHRF formula. In 2005, the Hobie 33 was first in the doublehanded division of Transpacific Yacht Race and went on to win its class against fully crewed boats.

Racing
The Hobie Class Association organizes regattas for multiple classes of Hobie cat all around the world. In North America, the continent is divided into 16 divisions, with several fleets in each division, in order to help sailors find regattas and events near them, but there are no regional restrictions on who can compete where. Indeed, many of the top sailors will travel hundreds, if not thousands of miles to attend as many regattas as they can.

The Hobie 16 fleet is still a highly active and highly competitive racing fleet, with Nationals and Worlds competitions/regattas drawing hundreds of competitors, often requiring separation into A fleet, B fleet & C fleet based on competitor skill level. Local regattas may have as few as 4-5 boats and be very casual affairs, or as many as 100+ boats and be highly competitive. There are several dozen Hobie fleets across North America alone which organize regattas and events, teach newcomers how to sail and race, and host parties and social events, or even just get together to sail.

Hobie 14, 17, 18, 20 and Hobie Waves each have active nationals competitions every year in the US, and many are raced at local regattas as well. The Hobie Wave is a quickly growing segment of the racing community, appreciated by competitors a simple, easy to handle, easy to rig and easy to sail single-handed boat. Discontinued boats have typically a much smaller turnout and tend to be much more casual to race. Hobie Nationals and Hobie Worlds tend to rotate around the country/globe, hosted in a different place/by a different fleet each year.

Racing of Hobie catamarans is conducted in a large number of countries around the world, with 20 countries sending their top two teams to Hobie worlds every year. The Hobie 16 has large racing fleets in Europe, North America, Australia, Asia, South America and in the islands of Oceania such as New Caledonia and Fiji. Racing is a mix between casual/recreational races and highly competitive regattas, depending on the class of boat and fleet hosting the regatta.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Hobie Cat


text:
User talk:Idologicdh

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Talk:List of ecumenical patriarchs of Constantinople

Fix
This is a mess i'm not about to fix, partly out of fear that the anachronistic "of Constantinople" really is an accepted name for these Bishops of Byz. Felix is now piped directly to Felix of Byzantium, who is also now the target of several other redirects, but only bcz that's what it took to make sense of his entries on LoPbN, Felix, and maybe a few others. Someone with more commitment to this topic has a project waiting for them, to research the proper names for the red lks & create all the redirects that are implicit in the other versions already on WP. (For instance, even in the cases of 136 and 141, i didn't venture to reword the anachronism that may make some sense on this talk page's article, but is horribly misleading in contexts that are restricted to the 1st thru 3rd centuries. --Jerzy·t 05:21, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Done. I'm still not sure if the article on Alexander (dead 337) has a wrong name. He's listed as Patriarch Alexander of Constantinople. Isn't his correct title Bishop, Archbishop or perhaps Metropolitan? As far as I know, the First Council of Constantinople elevated Constantinople to a patriarchate, but this was rejected by two popes, so the title wasn't established until the Council of Calchedon in 451. Thoughts anyone? --Valentinian 09:43, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I've removed references to "Patriarch" this-or-that before 381 and re-named articles accordingly. The title was not used before that year. --Valentinian 21:14, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I've fixed some of references PARTIALLY according to "Ecumencial Patriarchate of Constantinople", Encyclopedia Britannica 2005 Deluxe Edition CD-ROM., i.e. this-or-that of byzantium before 330, this-or-that of Constantinople between 330 and 381, patriarch this-or-that of Constantinople 381 onwards. I.H.S.V. [[User_talk:Ktsquare|(talk)]] 02:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Patriarchate since 381?
Surely Patriarchate only since Chalcedon in 451? --InfernoXV 18:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Super information, but much of it doesn't belong here
needs some fixing up, sadly im too lazy and uninformed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.68.176.147 (talk) 23:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Oecumenical?
Good folk, just to get a consensus of sorts - do you all think that every single Patriarch of Constantinople needs to have 'Oecumenical' (or 'Ecumenical' even) before 'Patriarch'? Surely nobody's going to mistake any other Patriarchate as the Oecumenical Patriarchate? Does anyone out there support renaming those individual patriarchs' articles back to plain old 'Patriarch so-and-so of Constantinople"? Hectorian's argument here, on reflection, I no longer find convincing. InfernoXV 21:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

"biased" sources
Which sources would be "unbiased", and therefore acceptable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.30.193.116 (talk) 09:15, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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Numbering of Bartholomew I
On this list, Bartholomew I is numbered 269th, but his article says he is the 270th patriarch. Richard75 (talk) 21:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Theopanes II not listed on official list of Ecumenical Patriarchs
I am trying to write an article on Theopanes II of Constantinople and I checked the list of Ecumenical Patriarchs on the official website for the Ecumenical Patriarchate,, and he isn't listed on there. I also searched for Theopanes II on Google and couldn't find any results for him, so I think this might be a hoax. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 15:31, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * He was added to the list by in this edit. Maybe we can ask Ktsquare about the source.  Vanjagenije   (talk)  21:52, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I would do that. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 07:47, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * So long ago... -- Ktsquare (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * on the Kiminas (see Note 2 in Article for reference), which is the best scholar text at the moment on the Greek Orthodox Hierarchy, Theopanes II is not listed as a patriarch in the list of Patriarch (pag 40). However under Patriarch Parthenius IV (1 time: 1 May 1667 - end June 1662) we have at note 39 pag 46:"[he] was deposed in April 1659 by Thophanes, the former Metropolitan of Melenikos, however three day later Parthenius managed to annul the decision" So I propose to remove it and to remove also the vacant (1659–1662) which is not true. A ntv (talk) 06:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I support the proposition to remove Theophanes and "vacant (1659–1662)" from the article. I think at best he could be included in a disputed section of the article similar to alot of other chronological lists of people, but there is no source that claims that he was the Ecumenical Patriarch, just that he deposed Parthenius IV. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 17:26, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If we remove Theophanes II, would we not also have to change the numbering for all the other ecumenical patriarchs after 1659?? GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 09:29, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

206. Dionysius IV Muselimes (1671–1673)
What is "Muselimes" and why is he referred to as the Muslim? The article on him doesn't tell us anything about this.

206. Dionysius IV Muselimes (1671–1673)

Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1676–1679), restored 1st time

Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1682–1684), restored 2nd time

Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1686–1687), restored 3rd time

Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim) (1693–1694), restored 4th time 2600:1702:1DE0:8FB0:D092:D781:1DE3:E3C6 (talk) 03:43, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

187. Cyril I Lucaris (locum tenens, 1612)
What is locum tenens? His article isn't very clear on this. 2600:1702:1DE0:8FB0:D092:D781:1DE3:E3C6 (talk) 03:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC) The term has more than one definition, meaning holding a position temporarily. Cyril was removed, then restored, as several other Patriarchs were, so shouldn't those other Patriarchs also have the notation, locum tenens? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.9.112.135 (talk) 20:04, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


text: Category:Operas by Francesco Cilea

title: Category:Operas by Francesco Cilea


text:
User talk:Mr Tan/plan draft-2

Dr Wee Kim Wee is not a member of PAP. He doesnt belong to any political party. Please amend accordingly. Thanks!

Note
I do not want any points to be deleted for the time being. Please ask User Nichalp and see Maharashtra and Maharashtra/temp for more details first.

Tan 13:52, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

English, editing, etc.

 * 1) "Passed away" is suitable for some contexts, perhaps, but it's merely a euphemism for "died", and we shouldn't be using rather twee euphemisms in an encyclopædia (see the main Talk page for an explanation of register).
 * 2) It is not acceptable for an editor to post "Keep off" notices on Wikipedia pages; it's not acceptable for Mr Tan to do it, nor for Nichalp to do it (see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Temp pages for a discussion of this.
 * 3) The temp article was full of grammatical errors, and also needed to be wikified (with regard to headers, dashes, etc.); it is not aceptable for editors to revert changes which merely tidy and correct the article. Mr Tan's approach to such matters is already the subject of an RfC, and he has been censured by a number of editors, defended by none. His poor attitude to Wikipedia shouldn't be taken as a rôle model by others. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 11:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Let's let Mr. Tan finish his work first. When it's finished, we can see if it contains good styling and grammar. All I can say about Mr Tan's grammar and styling is that they are very, very unique.

 * But if it is not good, we can edit it. JMBell° 12:03, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I understand your good intentions here, and I can see your point — but I feel that Mr Tan has to learn that Wikipedia is a collaborative project. he has to learn that his determination to take control of articles (and of this temp page), and to impose his agenda on others, is not acceptable.
 * His approach seems to be to find an article of which he approves, and then to force other articles into the same mould, regardless of Wikipedia style and policy; this "editing by analogy" has led to trouble in a number of ways. The idea that he's going to replace the existing article with one of his own devising, when the main article is being edited by a number of other people and his replacement is riddled with stylistic and grammatical errors, needs to be nipped in the bud.
 * If there's to be a temp article at all (and I don't see the point in this case), then every editor on the main article should be involved in the temp version. Mr Tan, however, is trying to use the temp article to sidestep the need for collaboration. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 13:58, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * He can learn that way. Right now, he doesn't seem to be learning anything, so why don't we let him do his stuff, and then teach him the lesson when he's finished? If he still won't have any of it, he can learn the hard way. It's his choice now. JMBell° 15:40, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Please let me finish my work in the death first--you have deleted the necessary points in the death section. I know that it needs rephrasing, but please do not interfere with the deletion of points, even if it maybe to be unnecessary to you.

Tan 22:35, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * You kep reverting my corrections of the grammar and of the Wikipedia style; when you stop doing that, you might find that adding genuine content is more rewarding. You need to learn that no article belongs to you, not even the temp page, and that it is not acceptable for you to insist on your poor English and incorrect style. Add material by all means, but don't try to correct other people's grammar — you're simply not up to it. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 15:05, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I never say that the article is mine. I know that adding genuine content is good either. But I insist that you stop your edits on the removal of facts. If they are not genuine facts, why should I have wasted my time to put it up then? I wouldn't mind you editing the style and grammar, in fact, I'm happy to let you do that. But please, show mutual respect for each other lah. I do not want you to delete the facts first. They are genuine, for I am armed with a collection of newspaper information about him, prepared to be edited right here. I know that the facts will be re-edited. So, since I'm know Wee Kim Wee very well, let me complete the edit of the content first before you step in.

Ah, yes, before I forget, I would like to add a statement of apology concerning the do not edit this page notice.

Tan 22:15, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm glad that you're prepared to have the grammar and style corrected (and that you've aplogised for the noyice), but I'm worried that your message above was accompanied by your reverting all my corrections to the grammar and style. The two aren't clearly consistent... Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 15:33, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I apologise again, as I could not detect your corrections to the grammar and style in contrast to my content that I intended to revert. However, had not it been accompanied alongside, I wouldn't have delibrately reverted.

I will elaborate on ''His 69-year-old companion, Vincent Wong, immediately rushed out of his house upon receving a call from Wee's family stating that he was in a critical condition. Wong arrived at Wee's house at 5:25 am, fifteen minutes after Wee had died.

It was raining as the convoy reached his house and the entrance was lined with wreaths and a Guard-of-Honour. '' so, please do not hide the content for the time being while I add some more content to elaborate my information.

Tan 00:07, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, at least we're getting somewhere. Tan, may I ask you to retain this good nature and stop accusing us of vandalism and attacking etc.? If we collaborate peacefully, we can build up our articles together, and we won't waste so much time on RfCs and RfArs and so. And you might even get a chance to improve your grammar. ;) All the best and regards to all. JMBell° 16:25, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

If you notice, Mel is a very hard-headed person, if you can notice his reverts, combined with my explanations in talk pages. As for Wee Kim Wee, I would like you all to follow my path, as I have the intention and potential to give add a lot of content about him. (Do not edit the facts as they mean a lot when I add more) However, I will be happy if you point out and change my English error, the same will apply to everyone. This is collaboration in editing. I will only be friendly and cooperative to you if you are only friendly and cooperative with me as well.

tan 00:56, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Can we just leave Mr Tan alone?
I am not implying that I condone Mr Tan's behavior if he does proof to be taking ownership of articles, but can I ask everyone to just let him finish all the editing he wants to this page before the rest of us come in, review his work, and then incorporate the stuff which are ok to the actual page itself? There is no need to presistently budge in and edit this page just to "teach him the idea of collaborative work". This "disciplinary" methodology clearly have not worked, and is unlikely to work for the forseeable future. I will only object if Mr Tan proceeds to replace the actual article with this version without concensus and without consultation from the rest of us, but fro mthe way it is going now, I would actually personally prefer that he write his stuff in his own page first so that we can review his inputs in one location, instead of directly "messing up" the actual article, and creating a war zone out of it!--Huaiwei 19:38, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Fair enough — you make a good point. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 20:20, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Temp pages
Hi, I just noticed this temporary page with a sign on it saying it shouldn't be edited. I don't think this kind of page is allowed, because it's now in the encyclopedia, notwithstanding that it has the word "temp" after it. Temporary pages have to go in a user subspace or on talk e.g. User:Mr Tan/Wee Kim Wee/temp or Talk:Wee Kim Wee/temp (i.e. this page). It should be moved or deleted. Mel, what's your view? SlimVirgin (talk) 15:02, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * The general feeling seems to be that anything that stops Mr Tan editing the main article is probably a good thing, and that if he restricts himself to playing with this, no harm's done. His proprietary attitude to it is certainly non-Wikipedian, but that's his attitude to all articles.  It's been made clear to him that he's not to do what he did at Zanskar (replace the article with his version, and revert-war over it).  This sort of temp page is used by other editors, I know (there was a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Temp pages], but how widely accepted it is I'm not sure. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 16:23, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Temp pages are a good idea, but they're not supposed to be in the encyclopedia, so far as I'm aware, and anything in the encyclopedia can't have these restricted-editing notices on them, especially the one he's created himself. I don't mean to be difficult, but this has been going on for some time, with no sign of abating. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:37, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

I agree, but despite n RfC which is unanimously critical of him (plus an earlier RfC on him under a different name), not to mention many other critical comments by a wide range of editors, he simply won't learn better behaviour. As you'll see above, I tried to get him to stop here, but arguing with him is like beating your head against a brick wall. I've contacted a member of the arbcom to see if arbitration is a suitable next step, and I'm still waiting to hear back. Far from thinking that you're being difficult, I'd welcome your help. My requests for help on the Admins' noticeboard didn't meet with much interest (just the usual comments critical of him). The first thing is perhaps to move this temp page to his User space (the other one was in fact created by Nichalp I think). Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 20:51, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Move back
''Shift back the content from User:Mr Tan/Wee Kim Wee to Wee Kim Wee/temp, anyone? I feel very bad and would not like to work in such a state in my user space. I swear that no notices will be put up anymore. See Maharashtra/temp for example.

Tan 13:24, 2 June 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mr Tan/plan draft-2


title: User:Nothingimportant22


text:
User:Jerzy/Red Links from LoPbN: F

 * F., Andrea, Slovene TV narrator
 * Faber, Casper, (fl. 1760s), German cabinet- and pencil-maker
 * Faber, Johann Christoph, (18th century), composer
 * Fabiani, Maks, (1865-1962), architect
 * Fabri, Annibale Pio, (1697-1760), Italian tenor
 * Fabricius, Werner, (1633-1679), composer
 * Fabrizi, Aldo, actor
 * Fabrizi, Vincenzo, (1764-after 1812) Italian composer
 * Faccini, Pietro, (1562-1602), painter
 * Faccio, Franco, (1840-1891), Italian conductor, composer
 * Fackelmann, Michael, dramatist, author
 * Fadel, Michael, Maronite Patriarch
 * Faehlmann, Friedrich Robert, Estonian writer
 * Faehnle, Dan, musician
 * Fagan, Gideon, (1904-1980), South African composer
 * Fahn, Mike, musician
 * Fahs, Sophia Lyon, (died 1978), educator and religious theorist
 * Fairbanks, Thaddeus, American inventor
 * Fairman, Michael, actor
 * Fajfar, Peter, (born 1943), Slovenian scientist
 * Falckenhagen, Adam, (1697-1761), German lutenist, composer
 * Falco, Michele, (1688?-after 1732), Italian composer
 * Falcon, Rose, (born 1983), actress, singer
 * Falcone, Achille (ca.1570-1600), Italian composer
 * Falconer, Earl, (born 1957), bassist
 * Falkenhorst, Nikolaus, German soldier
 * Fancello, Fabio, Sardinian
 * Fancello, Francesco, Sardinian (racer?)
 * Fanning, Ronan, Irish historian
 * Faoláin, Julia Ó, Irish culture figure
 * Fara, Giovanni Francesco, Sardinian
 * Farci, Filiberto, Sardinian
 * Farish, William Stamps III, US Air Force pilot?
 * Farkash, Bertalan, astronaut
 * Farnsworth, Daniel D. T., American politician
 * Farocki, Harun, (born 1945), actor, director
 * Farolan, Edmundo, Canadian writer
 * Farrar, Frank L., American politician
 * Farrell, Eibhlis, Irish culture figure
 * Farrow, John, film director
 * Fatur, Bogomir, (1914-1990), poet
 * Fatur, Lea, (1875-1943), poet
 * Faust, Georg, (born 1480), German surgeon
 * Fautrier, Jean, (1898-1964), painter
 * Favre, Louis, (1826-1879), engineer
 * Fazer, Karl, confectionery manufacturer
 * Fears, Tom, (died 2000), American football star
 * Fechter, Paul, (died 1958), German writer, historian
 * Fedkowicz, Jerzy, Polish painter
 * Feinstein, Elaine, poet
 * Feinstein, Michael, (born 1956), musician, composer
 * Felder, Donald, (born 1947), musician
 * Feldstein, Al, American comic creator
 * Felix, Patriarch, bishop of Byzantium (& thus "patriarch of Constantinople")
 * Fels, Ludwig, dramatist, author
 * Feng-Jün Song, (b. by 1985), Chinese-born folk musician
 * Fenlason, Jay, (fl. 1980s), programmer
 * Feologild, Archbishop of Canterbury
 * Ferch, Benedikt, aristocrat
 * Ferch, Elisabeth, aristocrat
 * Ferch, Ferdinand, aristocrat
 * Fergason, James, electro-chemical inventor
 * Fernández, Adrian, race driver
 * Fernandez, Vicente, Mexican singer
 * Fernandez Jr.,Vicente, Mexican singer
 * Fernau, Rudolf, (1898-1985), actor
 * Ferner, Alexander, aristocrat
 * Ferner, Benedikte, aristocrat
 * Ferner, Elisabeth, aristocrat
 * Ferner, Stella, aristocrat
 * Ferranti, Sebastian Ziani de, (1864-1930), electrical engineer
 * Ferrars, Elizabeth, author
 * Ferrier, Noel, (born 1930), producer and actress
 * Ferril, Thomas, poet
 * Ferro, Scipione dal, (1465-1526), mathematician
 * Ferry, Elisha P., American Governor of Washington
 * Fersen, Otto Wilhelm von, Swedish soldier
 * Fet, Afanasiy, (1812-1892), poet
 * Feuchtenegg, Ernst Ritter Seidler von, (1862-1931), Austrian politician
 * Fewell, Garrison, musician
 * Feynman, Arline, (fl. mid-20th century)
 * Fiallo, Delia, Spanish-language novelist
 * Ficke, Arthur Davison, (1883-1945), American poet and hoaxster
 * Fiddler, Amp, (born 1958), musician
 * Figg, James, boxer
 * Figini, Michela, (born 1966), skier
 * Figueres, Jose, President of Costa Rica
 * Figueroa, Emiliano, Chilean politician
 * Fijalkowski, Stanislaw, Polish painter
 * Filaret, Metropolitan of Moscow
 * Filion, Hervé, harness racing driver
 * Filipchenko, Anatoly, astronaut
 * Fillol, Matildo Ubaldo, athlete
 * Filson, B.K., Canadian writer
 * Filson, John, author
 * Findlater, Jane, Scottish novelist
 * Findlay, Arthur, (1883-1964),
 * Finlay, Carlos Juan, medical scientist
 * Finnerty, Isobel, Canadian senator
 * Finney, Patricia, author
 * Finsler, Johann Konrad, Swiss president
 * Firenze, Andrea da, Italian painter
 * Flaccus, Marcus Fulvius M.f., (fl. 2nd century BCE), Roman consul
 * Flaccus, Marcus Fulvius Q.f., (fl. 3rd century BCE), Roman consul
 * Flaccus, Quintus Fulvius, (fl. late 3rd century BCE), Roman consul
 * Flaccus, Quintus Fulvius, (fl. early 2nd century BCE), Roman consul
 * Flamerich, Germán Suárez, Venezuelan president
 * Flamingus, Gilbert de Oves, scholastic philosopher
 * Flanagan, Marc, (born 1948), television writer and producer
 * Fleischer, Carl, general
 * Fleischer, Johannes, (born 1582), botanist
 * Fleisser, Marieluise, (1901-1974), dramatist, author
 * Fleming, Aretas B., American politician
 * Flentrop, Dirk Andries, (1910-2003), Dutch organ builder
 * Fletcher, Andy (born 1961), musician
 * Fletcher, Barbara, Canadian writer
 * Fletcher, Peter, (born 1936), music teacher
 * Fletcher, Thomas Clement, American governor
 * Flex, Walter, (1887-1917), writer
 * Flieri, Johannes
 * Florentius, of Hesden, scholastic philosopher
 * Flores, Stefano Satta
 * Flottwell, Eduard Heinrich von, (1786-1865)
 * Flynn, Chris, athlete
 * Flynn, Gurley, (1890-1964), politician

title: User:Jerzy/Red Links from LoPbN: F


text:
Lam Bun

Lam Bun (25 September 1929 – 25 August 1967) was a radio commentator at Commercial Radio Hong Kong who was fiercely critical of leftists. He was assassinated during the 1967 Hong Kong riots, becoming an icon of freedom of speech in Hong Kong.

Biography
Lam was born Lam Siu-po (林少波) in 1929.

In the 1960s he worked as a radio commentator at Commercial Radio Hong Kong, which was fiercely critical of leftists. During the 1967 riots, Lam criticised the leftist rioters on his own radio programmes. He created a programme called "Can't Stop Striking" (欲罷不能) to satirise the leftists, leading some leftist newspapers at the time to label him as a "traitor" and an "imperialist running dog".

Death
On 24 August 1967, while Lam was en route to work, men posing as road maintenance workers stopped his vehicle at the end of the street where he lived. They blocked his car doors and doused Lam and his cousin with petrol. They were both then set on fire and burned alive. Lam died later that day in a hospital; his cousin died several days later. A leftist group reportedly claimed responsibility for the assassination.

No one was ever arrested, although it was believed that Yeung Kwong, then chairman of the Federation of Trade Unions (FTU) and director of the Anti-British Struggle Committee, ordered the murder. However, pro-Beijing politicians said in 2010 that leftists should not be blamed for Lam's death. The founder of Commercial Radio Hong Kong George Ho launched the programme 18/F, Block C in his memory.

Immediately after Lam Bun's death, most of the Chinese and English newspapers in Hong Kong condemned the killing as despicable and inhuman. On the other hand, the pro-communist leftist newspaper, Ta Kung Pao, published several articles, condemning Lam Bun but not the murderers. For example, one of the articles titled "地下突擊隊鋤奸, 敗類林彬受重傷", which may be translated into English as "An underground special tactic unit had crushed the villain. The antagonist, Lam Bun, was seriously wounded". Another article in the same newspaper published on the same day described the brutal murder as a punishment that Lam Bun had deserved (突擊隊懲戒林彬).

The Lam Bun assassination angered the people of Hong Kong, eventually leading the government of Hong Kong to suppress the riots. Lam became an icon of free speech. The police offered a reward of HK$50,000, on top of which his employers added HK$100,000, making it the highest reward ever posted in the colony.

2001 GBM controversy
In 2001, Yeung Kwong was awarded the highest honour Grand Bauhinia Medal by Tung Chee-hwa. Critics in Hong Kong felt that it was inappropriate to award a riot leader who encouraged the violence which led to Lam's murder.

2010 Commercial Radio controversy
In May 2010, after the pro-Beijing Democratic Alliance for the Betterment of Hong Kong had sponsored a political radio programme on Commercial Radio, pro-democracy activists protested outside the station with images of Lam, complaining that the station had desecrated the memory of Lam, and all the station had stood for. Activists said they had requested an interview to talk about Lam's death. The station later said it respected freedom of speech; the DAB said the shows were about livelihood issues, and denied they promoted a political stance.

Two DAB lawmakers stepped into the row: Chan Kam-lam said: "During the '67 riots, it was not just Lam Bun who died. There were very many ordinary citizens who, we don't know for what reason, died ..." Wong Ting-kwong also said leftists should not be held responsible. Pro-democracy lawmaker Lee Cheuk-yan said the DAB were revisionists who "would rather people not talk about their inglorious past." Wong later clarified his comments, saying he had been misunderstood because the phrase 'leftist camp' had different definitions. He said that there was no evidence that Yeung Kwong or the FTU killed Lam Bun. He blamed the media for sensationalising his comments ahead of the 16 May by-election.

title: Lam Bun


text:
User:Literaryfairy

I am a website producer, writer, and knitter living in New York City. My obsessions-of-the-moment include NPR, Snow Patrol, Kate Bush, cross-stitch, paper dolls, pugs, Family Guy, eBay, and Coco Chanel.

By the way, I am shocked (shocked!) that an entry for paper dolls does not yet exist on wikipedia. I guess I know what my next contribution is going to be...

title: User:Literaryfairy


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tristan Louis

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - kept - SimonP 00:17, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Tristan Louis
Delete. A vanity article, going through the normal, unnotible life of a blogger and his blog. Written by the blogger himself/herself. 24.76.141.128 05:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Notice the redirect from the user account of TNLNYC who originated this article. -- Barfooz  (talk)  05:42, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Note: Redirect removed because of note below (by DenisMoskowitz)
 * Userfy back to TNLNYC --Xcali 05:46, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Userfy, and post a cheerful lecture on his talk page. -- BD2412 talk 08:00, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * Keep, (of course, I'm the user so I'm biased but this is based on the fact that I still meet the wikipedia criteria for biography:more on my talk page) - TNLNYC 12:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I do support Userfying the article. Honestly, this thing reads like incredible vanity. Terms like "well known" are tossed around quite alot, even though this was written by the person in question and so seems very biased. 24.76.141.128 22:35, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Edited page to make it less biased... However, it's hard not to be since I'm the subject. --TNLNYC 23:19, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Userfy unless the unverifiable claims are removed and the references to the verifiable ones establish a modicum of notability. My threshold is low, but this article doesn't give one much to go on. Dystopos 22:52, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Removed all non-verifiable claims from page--TNLNYC 23:19, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn vanity. --Etacar11 00:07, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep While it could be considered vanity, I think the author makes a good argument for why to keep it. It's a tough call between Userfy and Keep but, considering Dystopos comment, I'll go against the prevailing opinion and support the author on this one. --208.131.51.19 17:35, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Looks like the links point to verifiable claims. --63.111.163.13 22:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment on above 63.111.163.13 has, if you check his/her contributions, only contribs to the article in question. They are biased, and possibly Tristan himself. 02:38, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Response to comments Checked my IP (I did indeed go to edit some stuff - mainly removals to make it more compliant with what people were asking to do here) but it doesn't look like mine (and I know I didn't add a Keep... I'd like you all to Keep it (or Userfy it, at worst) but not so badly that I would try to rig the vote (I figure it would be too easy to find out :) )--TNLNYC 23:12, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * UserFy He doesn't seem important enough to keep as an entry but has made some contributions so I would hesitate to delete. Plus, extra points for being willing to be honest and redirect his user page instead of creating a separate one. --70.19.92.21 14:16, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Ouch, that one hurts my ego (not important :) ) --TNLNYC 23:19, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * comment I would ask that he not redirect his user page to this one - it complicates looking at his contributions, getting to his talk page, etc. No opinion either way on deletion. DenisMoskowitz 20:15, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)
 * response to comment: Done. Redirect removed. --TNLNYC 22:26, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or Userfy. Really, man; why even have us waste time discussing whether to keep the article in the main namespace... (no insult intended for you yourself, TNLNYC---I just do my wikiduty voicing my opinion on the WKP article as such).  --Wernher 01:51, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * response: Wernher, I guess the issue is that, technically, the page does meet the criterias listed for inclusion. Maybe the criteria should be changed? --TNLNYC 20:56, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep During the Internet bubble, the guy's opinion could make or break companies. I remember meeting him once at the Internet World conference and people like Jerry Yang of Yahoo! were clamoring after him to endorse their products. My, how the mighty have fallen but still someone who deserves a footnote in history --68.116.184.131 16:07, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * response: Actually, I'd say this is not enough of a reason (damn, why am I arguing against inclusion here :) ) --TNLNYC 20:56, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep unless you want to remove the following entries: Jason Kottke, Juan Cole, Ana Marie Cox, Anil Dash, J. Bradford DeLong, Hossein Derakhshan, Betsy Devine, Mark Frauenfelder, Philip Greenspun, Joshua Harris, Hugh Hewitt, Meg Hourihan, Dave Hyatt, Joi Ito, etc... who have had about as little an impact as this guy did (I could add more people but I don't have the time... maybe we should rethink the whole Bloggers category as it doesn't really give the long view. --70.19.111.5 12:18, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * response: I would agree with some (as I started writing the entry based on the fact that those people had entries). However, I'm not sure deleting them would be the right idea. --TNLNYC 20:56, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment again, nearly all the "keeps" are from nearly contribution-less anons. Specifically, one has only contributions to the article in question, one has contributions to December 28 and 29, and one has contributions to December 30. It seems fishy, and I hate to say things like that. (I also agree that most or all of the blogs mentioned in the vote above be deleted ;) -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 02:40, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep from someone who isn't a contribution-less anon, and would like to point out that there are many articles on Wikipedia that people do not edit, but would not like to see deleted and thus vote if the issue comes up. --ElfWord 07:43, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Hence I'm staying out of voting, I don't really care all that much about this article, but have no opinion against it either. The anons are still suspicious in my mind, as two were editing the same set of articles, one only had edited the one in question, and one or more apparenly have something to do with Bloghate. None had simply edited nothing, or unrelated things, and it just struck me as odd -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 00:18, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Userfy Keep I just did a minor edit on it, after hearing that there was an entry in contention (on a mailing list). He was a minor character in the development of several web formats back in the early days of the W3C (circa 1995) but I don't think he deserves a full article in the wiki space but considering some of the feedback I've seen, I'm changing my vote (many people credit him with the 3 column look adopted by so many news websites). --Spainhour 03:02, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) --Spainhour 18:48, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete He's only a blogger. I think none of the bloggers should go in. Let's face it, they don't contribute much --Bloghate 05:04, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and delist. VfD vandalism by IP address 70.19.111.5 who is working hand in glove with User:Bloghate.   —RaD Man (talk) 08:17, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - not because he's a blogger, but because he's General Manager and publisher of iWorld. Also, keep listed on VFD - do not assume this is vandalism. Radiant_ >|< 12:10, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: When a someone creates a user account named Bloghate and runs it immediately to VfD in order to nominate and delete blogger-related articles, it is safe to assume it is bad faith. What planet do you live on?  —RaD Man (talk) 15:05, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text: Category:Operas by Umberto Giordano

title: Category:Operas by Umberto Giordano


text:
Robert Poydasheff

Robert Stephen Poydasheff (13 February 1930 – 24 September 2020) was an American attorney and politician who served one term as mayor of Columbus, Georgia, from 2003 to 2007. A retired military officer, he served in the United States Army for twenty-four years, retiring at the rank of colonel.

Early life and education
Poydasheff was born and raised in The Bronx in New York City; he attended DeWitt Clinton High School.

He earned a B.A. in political science from The Citadel in 1954, a J.D. from Tulane University Law School in 1957, an M.A. in international relations from Boston University's Graduate Program in Berlin, Germany in 1967, and attended The Hague Academy of International Law in The Netherlands.

Military service
In May 1955, Poydasheff was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the infantry branch of the United States Army. After going on leave without pay to attend law school, he was reassigned to the Judge Advocate General's Corps. His assignments included acting as chief counsel to several high-ranking officers involved in the My Lai Massacre and the Post Exchange scandal. A 1976 graduate of the United States Army War College, he served a total of twenty-four years, retiring as a colonel in 1979. In 2012, the Army War College Foundation named Colonel Poydasheff an Outstanding Alumnus in recognition of his wide-ranging service to his community after his retirement from active duty.

Political career
Poydasheff served on the Columbus city council from 1994 to 2002. He was elected mayor in 2002, defeating fellow counselor Richard H. Smith and former state representative Jed Harris. He was unsuccessful in his 2006 bid for re-election to a second term and was succeeded by former Columbus police chief Jim Wetherington.

A Republican, Poydasheff described himself as ideologically similar to Colin Powell. He supported Democrat Teresa Tomlinson in her successful 2010 mayoral run.

Personal life
Poydasheff was married to the former Anastasia "Stacy" Catherine Latto, and had two children, Catherine Alexandra Ross and Robert S. Poydasheff Jr. Poydasheff died on 24 September 2020 after a brief illness.

title: Robert Poydasheff


text:
User talk:69.231.164.136

Just to let you know about the Three-revert rule:

 * Don't revert any page more than three times within a period of 24 hours.

You have already broken this rule. However, I am not going to ban you. If however you do remove the image from University of California, Los Angeles, you will be blocked. You cannot get around this rule by changing IP addresses. Evil Monkey∴Hello 05:32, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:69.231.164.136


text:
Swords, Ontario

Swords is a ghost town and former railway point in central Ontario, Canada, in the township of Seguin in the District of Parry Sound.

As with Seguin Falls, Swords was a whistlestop along the Booth railway. When the Ottawa, Arnprior and Parry Sound Railway came through with the railway, they built a small flag stop and siding and named it Maple Lake Station.

The railway brought lumbering to the area and in 1894 the Ludgate Lumber Company bought large amounts of land and began cutting down trees. The company built a general store and three workers homes south of the tracks. In 1904 a school house was built for the children.

In 1925 the name of the town was changed to Swords, after the Sword family who live around that area, to avoid confusion with another Maple Lake Station. The Swords were responsible for operating many of the businesses in the area and the Swords were voted to have the town named after them. One such business was the Maple Lake Hotel, owned by John and Annie Sword. Annie would stop and inspect the boots of the lumbermen to ensure that they didn't have hobnails, making them likely to scuff the hotel floor. In this case she would place a shingle over the hobnails, rendering the boots safe. The hotel stood until the late 60's or early 70's. A store still stands there to this day but has suffered several break-ins and is in a general state of disrepair.

title: Swords, Ontario


text: User talk:63.26.192.184

title: User talk:63.26.192.184


text:
1st Alberta Legislature

The 1st Alberta Legislative Assembly was in session from November 9, 1905, to Monday, March 22, 1909, with the membership of the assembly determined by the results of the 1905 Alberta general election which was held on November 9, 1905. The Legislature officially began on November 9, 1905, and continued until the fourth session was prorogued on February 25, 1909, and dissolved the next day on February 26, 1909, prior to the 1909 Alberta general election.

Alberta's first government was controlled by the majority Liberal Party led by Premier Alexander Rutherford. The Official Opposition was the Conservative Party led by Albert John Robertson. The Speaker was Charles W. Fisher who served in the role until his death from the 1918 flu pandemic in 1919 partway through the 4th Alberta Legislature.

History of the First Legislature
The 1st Alberta Legislative Assembly came about after Alberta entered Confederation with the Alberta Act. The assembly met for the first time in 1906 under a strong Alberta Liberal Party majority. Construction of the Alberta Legislature Building would not begin until 1907, so the assembly would meet in the newly completed McKay Avenue School for the first two sessions of the First Legislative Assembly of Alberta in 1906 and 1907. Important bills passed in those sessions include confirming Edmonton as the provincial capital, the founding of the University of Alberta, establishment of provincial courts, and the provision of charters for several railway companies.

Edmonton was designated as the temporary capital city for Alberta during its creation. One of the major debates that occurred in this assembly was the capital city debate. A number of alternative capital cities were chosen and voted on. In the end partly due to the strong representation around Edmonton and strong Liberal majority, Edmonton was chosen as the permanent capital city in Alberta.

Labor MLA Donald McNabb's by-election victory made him the first third party candidate elected to the legislature and helped raise the strength of the labour movement in the Lethbridge area that would have an effect in Alberta politics for quite some time to come.

Telephone policy
Liberal government would make a number of large-scale forays into government operation of utilities, the most notable of which being the creation of Alberta Government Telephones. In 1906, Alberta's municipalities legislation was passed and included a provision authorizing municipalities to operate telephone companies. Several, including Edmonton, did so, alongside private companies. The largest private company was the Bell Telephone Company, which held a monopoly over service in Calgary. Such monopolies and the private firms' refusal to extend their services into sparsely-populated and unprofitable rural areas aroused demand for provincial entry into the market, which was effected in 1907. The government constructed a number of lines, beginning with one between Calgary and Banff, and it also purchased Bell's lines for $675,000.

Alberta's public telephone system was financed by debt, which was unusual for a government like Rutherford's, which.was generally committed to the principle of "pay as you go". Rutherford's stated rationale was that the cost of such a large capital project should not.be borne by a single generation and that incurring debt to finance a corresponding asset was, in contrast to operating deficits, acceptable. Though the move was popular at the time, it would prove not to be financially astute. By focusing on areas neglected by existing companies, the government was entering into the most expensive and least profitable fields of telecommunication. Such.problems would not come to fruition until Rutherford had left office, however. In the short term, the government's involvement in the telephone business helped it to a sweeping victory in the 1909 election. The Liberals won 37 of 41 seats in the newly-expanded legislature.

Labour bills
Rutherford's government legislated an eight-hour day, as well, Rutherford's government also passed workers' compensation legislation designed to make such compensation automatic, rather than requiring the injured worker to sue his employer. Labour representatives criticized the bill for failing to impose fines on negligent employers, for limiting construction workers' eligibility under the program to injuries sustained while they were working on buildings more than 40 ft high, and for exempting casual labourers. It also viewed the maximum payout of $1,500 as inadequate. In response to these concerns, the maximum was increased to $1,800 and the minimum building height reduced to 30 ft. In response to farmers' concerns, farm labourers were made exempt from the bill entirely.

Members of the Legislative Assembly elected
For complete electoral history, see individual districts

title: 1st Alberta Legislature


text:
Stirton, Ontario

Stirton is an unincorporated rural community in Mapleton Township, Wellington County, Ontario, Canada.

The Conestogo River flows 0.85 km west of Stirton, and the land between the settlement and the river are part of the Conestogo Lake Conservation Area.

Stirton prospered from the mid-1800s to the early 1900s.

History
The settlement was named for David Stirton, a member of the House of Commons from 1857 to 1876.

A map of Stirton from the 1850s showed that the settlement had 16 lots. Many were sold between 1856 and 1868.

The settlement was divided into two sections, Upper Stirton and Lower Stirton, located about 1 km apart. Mills were located in one section, while merchants and residences were located in the other.

A post office operated from 1863 to 1910, and local merchant John Sanderson was the first postmaster. The early settlement also had a blacksmith shop, tannery, cooper, shoe shop, harness maker, general store, carriage maker, two churches, and three carpenters. A flax mill was built in 1867, and employed about 60 people. The Hotel Stirton operated during the late 1860s.

In 1871, Stirton was receiving mail daily, and had a population of 150.

Many of Stirton's businesses were abandoned by 1900, and the Methodist church in Stirton existed until 1929.

During the early 1950s, construction began on a dam located 7 km south of Stirton, across the Conestogo River. The completed dam would flood a large area southwest of Stirton, and create Conestogo Lake. In 1956, a news article suggested that Stirton would become "a livelier centre as tourists drive around the new lake and over the only bridge across the Conestogo River at the north end of the lake". Stirton failed to become more popular following the completion of the dam in 1958.

title: Stirton, Ontario


text:
Talk:San Antonio Spurs

Third opinion
Hey. I saw that someone requested a third opinion for the reputation section. First off, I believe that the current section needs a great deal of work. Statements like "the Spurs seem as low key as the residents" are inappropriate and should be removed. I'm open to discussing whether or not the section should even exist. If there are enough notable sources/articles about the team's reputation, then they should be mentioned here before being added into the page. Until then, the section seems like weighted cruft. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 22:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm honestly good with leaving the section off the article completly. Maybe one or two quick sentences, but not an entire section like that.  I'm for deleting the section myself. Dknights411 (talk) 23:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Deleting the reputation section or allowing more sourced material there would work for me. I agree that it is full of statements that are inadequately sourced and even opinions. Jacksonthor (talk) 01:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, great. Let's see what other people have to say. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 01:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Any other opinions out there???? Jacksonthor (talk) 20:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

...Er, alright then. Jackson, do you want to trim this section down? —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 20:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks like it's ok just to delete the section entirely, right? Jacksonthor (talk) 18:42, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the section should have been entirely deleted. As I said above... the Spurs are seen, off the court, as a franchise and players that consistently give back to the community. The Spurs consistently rank in the Top 2 in ESPN's "Ultimate Standings" http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/mag/franchiseRanks, which ranks teams in a variety of sports and community related areas. It's safe to say that the Spurs run a quality organization that wins consistently, gives back, and has a special relationship with their community; this should be inserted somewhere into this article. http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?name=franchise08rank2 This could all be done in an informative, non-biased manner. --Cdman882 (talk) 15:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Franchise template
I've noticed that the other more prominent teams (lakers, c's, bulls) have templates of that certain franchise. You know, the template/summary of the organization thingy near the bottom of the page eith the champion team's lineup for that year. I don't see the reason why we shouldn't make a template for the spurs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.81.142 (talk) 18:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Head coach list
The head coach list that is currently in the article duplicates most of the information already at List of San Antonio Spurs head coaches. Why create twice the work? The purpose of separate articles is to summarize them when needed, not to create another copy of it and bloat articles.—Bagumba (talk) 20:19, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Infobox color
The color should be #000000 and nothing else. Spurs color is black, not some dark blue/off-black. p b  p  16:53, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Contrary to what you think, Spurs' official color guide specify #061922 as THEIR color. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Bullshit. Source it or I'm changing it back to actual black.  And none of this paywall BS.  I want an actual source somebody can actually read.  p  b  p
 * No subscription is needed for that source as only journalists can access that site. The username and password for that source were published on Wikipedia in the past and anyone could access it (and still can who knows the username and password). However, I'm not allowed to publish these details (or any other user for that matter). Spurs' color is called Pantone Black per guide. Here are the details for their "black" color from the guide:
 * {| class="wikitable"

! style="text-align:left; vertical-align:top;"|Team color name ! style="text-align:left; vertical-align:top;"|Color name ! style="text-align:left; vertical-align:top;"|CMYK color ! style="text-align:left; vertical-align:top;"|RGB color
 * - style="text-align:left; vertical-align:top;"
 * Spurs Black
 * Pantone Black
 * 30C/0M/0Y/100K
 * 6R/25G/34B
 * }
 * P.S. Lower your tone unless you want to have a timeout from Wikipedia. – Sabbatino (talk) 19:06, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't tell me what to do, Sabbatino. I'm still not convinced you're not just pulling this out of your ass, and would prefer a citation not hidden behind a password.  p  b  p  21:02, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The same source is used for all NBA teams. Need I say more? If you went through older revisions, you would find username and password... – Sabbatino (talk) 22:36, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:PAYWALL allows for reliable sources that may be restricted by subscriptions. Are you contesting that it is Pantone Black, or do you disagree with the encoding of #061922?—Bagumba (talk) 02:52, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * One or the other. The current coloring Sabbatino advocates doesn't show up as black on many computers; it shows up (particularly when paired with silver) as some weird blue-black.  WP:PAYWALL aside, it's always preferable to have sources on the free side of a paywall.  I might also add using a single source for 30 teams worth of data is actually a bad thing, Sabbatino.  Better for that information to be sourced from multiple sources.  p  b  p  02:57, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Which alternative source would you suggest?—Bagumba (talk) 03:08, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

I remember having a related conversation of #000000 vs #061922 with, whom I believe introduced #061922 into Module:Basketball color/data for San Antonio. AFAIK, the NBA source does not list the hex encoding, so I'm not sure if what is the consensus on how to perform the conversion. My contention with not using #000000 was that it caused WP:CONTRAST issues in some cases, depending on the other team color.—Bagumba (talk) 03:08, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * That doesn't seem right with this particular color pairing. I ran Pantone black and HTML black against this shade of silver in the contrast tool; Pantone black's contrast is 10-something and HTML black's contrast is 11-something.  p  b  p  05:47, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add my two cents to this conversation. For reference in this conversation, here is the URL linking to the San Antonio Spurs' official Reproduction Guideline Sheet (via the National Basketball Association (NBA)'s Media Central website: .)  It is an official document specifying the official HTML color information (in the CMYK and RGB color formats). It does not list the HTML hex codes, but using the RGB model from Adobe Color CC, one can determine for themselves that the HTML hex code for Spurs' Black is #061922. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 06:03, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * What I'm hearing is you got 061922 through OR. p  b  p  06:43, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * @pbp: "That doesn't seem right with this particular color pairing.": I believe we are in agreement. What I had meant to say was that using #061922 (i.e. not #000000) was resulting in a lower contrast and WCAG 2.0's AAA was not met in some cases.  However, I'm not sure what is the ideal process to generically covert a given color from a team's published color guidelines to a web hex color code.  What would you suggest?—Bagumba (talk) 07:16, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure there's a good process that's not OR. From what I'm hearing from Charlesaaronthompson (talk), he used some sort of tool to click on a particular pixel to discern its shade.  It's highly possible that if he'd clicked on the pixel to the left or right from the pixel he did, he'd have gotten a completely different shade of black (from what I can tell, something similar happens if you use the eyedropper function in PowerPoint).   p  b  p  14:38, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * All I did was input the RGB color hex codes into the Adobe Color CC wheel to discern what the HTML color hex codes were. Also, there's this reference from TeamColors.Arc90.com, which states: "All NBA colors are official. The NBA only provides RGB, CMYK, and Pantone colors for each team, so the HEX color is a programmatic conversion of the RGB color." Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 18:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120507222028/http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/01/coach-of-the-year/index.html?ls=iref%3Anbahpt2 to http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/01/coach-of-the-year/index.html?ls=iref%3Anbahpt2

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External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Spurs-trophies20090312.jpg

Origin of the team name
In an statement given after Red McCombs' death (which was referenced in this ESPN.com article and likely other places), George Gervin told the Houston Chronicle that McCombs named the team after Spur, Texas (McCombs' birthplace). I don't know if that should be added here, or if that counts as a reliable enough source, but I thought I'd share it here. -happy5214 02:28, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Antonio Spurs


text:
Spence, Ontario

Spence is a ghost town in the Canadian province of Ontario, at the crossroads of the Nipissing Colonization Road and the Ryerson Road (now Nelson Lake Road). The name of the village came from Spence Township, named for former Postmaster General, Robert Spence. Approximately 10 km north of Dufferin Bridge it was a small farming community.

By the 1870s, a general store was owned by Henry Clifford and a hotel operated by William Cameron. The post office was opened in 1872 by William Ashdown. From 1919 Effie Doherety took over the postal service until 1952 when it closed.

The Spence Inn (later named Simpson's Hotel) was operated by Levitt Simpson. It opened in 1878 and operated until 1911.

A second store was added, blacksmith shop, two sawmills, church and school. Hamilton Brown taught at the school, which was built in 1875, and also ran the Spence Inn. In its prime, the population was between 100 and 150 residents.

The community is now located in the municipality of Magnetawan, in the Parry Sound District.

title: Spence, Ontario


text:
User talk:EvilStorm

Hello EvilStorm!

I saw your listing on the New User's page, and since you mentioned an interest in philosophy, I thought I'd say hello. Always remember that being a high school student doesn't mean you don't know what you're talking about; others may discount you, but don't let that be a discouragement. (Easy for me to say, I have a Ph.D.)

That said, if you run across anything you're iffy about, leave me a note on my talk page and I'll come to your defence (if you're right, that is; if not, you may have to be burnt at the stake) I hope you have a good time editing on Wikipedia!

Essjay 05:37, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, EvilStorm! I have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on or by typing helpme at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on, or place helpme on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Cirt (talk) 09:17, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Introduction
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style
 * You've been around for a while, but never got a "welcome" template, hehe. Thanks for the support of my work here.  :)  Cirt (talk) 09:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That's mostly 'cause I wikignome and stay vewwy vewwy quiet. :D Thanks! EvilStorm (talk) 09:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:EvilStorm


text:
Bangin' on Wax

Bangin' on Wax is the debut album by American hip hop group Bloods & Crips. The album was released in 1993 by Dangerous Records. Bangin' on Wax peaked at No. 86 on the Billboard 200 albums chart. Four singles were released: "Bangin' on Wax", "Piru Love", "Crip, Crip, Crip", and "Steady Dippin'". Music videos were made for "Bangin' on Wax", "Piru Love" and "Steady Dippin'". The album was produced by Ronnie Phillips, DJ Battlecat, Big Qluso, Siilski, Tweedy Bird Loc, and J. Stank. To minimize conflict, Phillips decided to use gang members from geographically separate areas of Los Angeles.

title: Bangin' on Wax


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Revision3 Studios/Archive

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 00:18, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Revision3 Studios
A company whose main claim to fame seems to be that "is behind" (produces?) two "videozines", neither of which has yet got its own WP article. Google tells me that the total number of hits for "revision3 studios" is a rather underwhelming zero. -- Hoary 05:39, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)

PS sorry, the two videozines do have their own articles. One, Systm, is the subject of a Vfd right now, and the other, The Broken, looks pretty dispensable to me. -- Hoary 06:01, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
 * Delete Somebody keeps trying to add articles related to this company and/or its productions. It's still not notable.  --Xcali 05:40, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete this crap. — Phil Welch 00:07, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep -- It doesn't matter if it's not notable... to some. It's the company behind thebroken (which is already listed and being kept).  Why is TWiT listed (when only being out for a month or two) and this is considered for deletion?  More knowledge...makes life easier when people want to know about this. ...... added at 01:32 and 01:33, 2005 Jun 3 by 69.230.167.162
 * Delete a review of the article and the referenced websites reveal them to be a combination of advertising and vanity posting. Tobycat 04:20, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
List of ports in Australia

This is a list of ports in Australia. It includes all gazetted ports, harbours, havens, roadsteads and marinas.

This list is complete with respect to the 1996 Gazetteer of Australia. Dubious names have been checked against the online 2004 data, and in all cases confirmed correct. However, if any ports have been gazetted or deleted since 1996, this list does not reflect these changes. Strictly speaking, Australian place names are gazetted in capital letters only; the names in this list have been converted to mixed case in accordance with normal capitalisation conventions. Locations are as gazetted; obviously some islands may extend over large areas.

The list also contains some entries for places that are widely recognised as ports or harbours, yet have not been gazetted as such. These are noted and individually referenced in the list.

title: List of ports in Australia