text:
User talk:Brux

Welcome
Welcome!

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You may also wish to check out how to make a Redirect. It's easy once you learn how! Cheers, -- Infrogmation 06:10, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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Signing
Try to sign things with four tildes (~). And please, we do not need copyright violating material on here. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:35, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * The wikipedia does have its copyright rules plastered all over, and we tend to think that it would be common sense not to post someone else's work to the site. Sorry if everyone comes out as being a little harsh, the members and admins don't like having the wiki in legal trouble, or caught "borrowing" (taking down the reputation). Or something like that. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:31, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
Hi. If you plan to stick around, please familiarize yourself with such Wikipedia policies as Neutral point of view. Some of the text you have added, permission or not, sounds like advertising; if the subjects are notable enough to warrent encyclopedia articles, the text needs to be rewritten without the promotional hype. Hope this helps, -- Infrogmation 02:11, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also, on Oz Garcia, you seem to have added interwiki links to versions of the article in other languages, but such articles seem not to exist. Why? Wondering simply, -- Infrogmation 02:12, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I'm not sure what the purpose of your recent edit of Anne Bancroft was. What exactly do you think was counter to NPOV of what you removed? Hm, Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point might be worth a look. You seem to have gotten off to a bit of a rough start as a new user here, but if you're interested in helping us write a great free conent encyclopedia, understand that you are welcome here, and I believe you'll find that most of us older term users are quite forgiving of new user mistakes as long as the new users are willing to learn from them. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 03:27, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Deleted articles
Hello, I have no idea why it was deleted: I never saw it. If shouldn't have been speedied on grounds of nobility — that should have gone to VFD. Be careful with the kind of articles you add: both Gourmet Guides and Personal Best Inc. can be construed as publicity, and if they were to appear in VFD, I would have to vote delete. Can you find any similar articles in wikipedia? Some articles are also very short, such as Michael Dornemann. You're not against a time limit here! You're much better off spending half an hour or more researching and writing one good article than creating several very small ("substub" - an article that is even shorter than a stub) pages.

A good tip for notability: can you insert wikilinks within the article without having to create them? An example: yesterday, I created the article Swing Bridge, River Tyne. Every wikilink on that page is to an existing, developed article.

Feel free to give me a shout if you have any questions. Enjoy wikipedia! The JPS 09:41, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not an admin, so I don't have access to the wonderful array of information about deleted articles. If you use material from other websites, you should rewrite them. It will enhance the article and make it conform to wikipedia standards.
 * Sometimes copyright infringements will be spotted immediately, sometimes they will take a while to be identified. The copyvios that escape being found are those which conform to wikipedia style. I always do a copyvio check if I see an article with a style very different to the rest of wikipedia! The safest thing to do is always rewrite, and add the website as a reference.
 * The problem with the other two articles that you mention is more to do with advertising. Can you find any other articles on wikipedia about shops which sell cookbooks? An article about Wal-Mart, however, is going to be of interest to far more people.
 * You are right - there is no automatic system of mentoring newbies. There are newbie message boards, put the paradox is that you won't know that they are there untill you're not a newbie anymore! I'm happy to answer any queries. It might be worthwhile just cooling off a little before adding more articles — lurk a while, or make small edits to existing articles, and get a sense of the environment.
 * Out of interest, who pointed youin my direction? The JPS 15:46, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This was the initial problem with Gourmet Guides. It did not express notability: in its original state, it look like advertising and did not mention any historical relevance. I've now added an appropriate category.
 * Notability is an issue of common sense: you're writing for other people, so what is notable for you (or me) is not that relevant. My local shop is more important and notable to me than Wal-mart, but who, other than me, actually cares? The JPS 16:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Michael Dornemann
Hey. If you cheched the history, JPS wanted this article to be merged in the main article: which it was. Therefore, it was a candidate for deletion. I already got slammed that this article was too short. Check my talk section. Paraphrasing JPS, "unless I can add some more information the about MichaelD. then the article should be removed". Brux 15:36, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Candidates for speedy deletion are only those which satisfy one of the criteria listed on WP:CSD; In this case, the best option is probably redirecting the articles to wherever they've been merged. --W(t) 15:40, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)

On2
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as On2, but we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. Perhaps you would like to rewrite the article in your own words. For more information about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, take a look at our Five Pillars. Happy editing! NatusRoma 00:57, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I suppose that the problem is that Wikipedia is inconsistent. There's a page somewhere explaining this, but I can't for the life of me find where it is. I'll see if I can track it down sometime in the near future. I didn't find other copyrighted contributions that you may have made because I didn't go looking for them. If you removed them without anyone finding them, then you've already done what's necessary. Please continue contributing; as Infrogmation said, more experienced users are generally quite forgiving of past mistakes. Please keep contributing; I'll be interested to see what you can do. NatusRoma 05:14, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey, I guess we are going to get into a battle over On2! Why did you put the copyright violation back on and not the original content? I acknowledge it was a copyright violation and want it changed back but you are hanging some stupid sign on the article for what? Please change it back to the original content and stop this discussion-article-war. What is the purpose of hanging a copyright violation on it after the fact: because you have some rule about it that has to be followed? Brux 16:09, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The article's a copyright violation. That means it'll have to be rewritten on the /temp page, which will be moved to the article page when the copyvio is removed, as described in the template. See Copyright problems for more information. --W(t) 16:12, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)

 * Where is the original material? Why can't it just be copied to /temp and everything moved back to the original form? Brux 16:18, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The edit history can be found by clicking the history link at the top of the page, but all of that was a copyright violation. --W(t) 16:21, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)

 * I understand the history link. My original question still remains. Where did the original material go? As you said I need to copy this text to the /temp article, so the move can occur, etc? If the original text can't be found, what then? Is the article marked for deletion since all the material is in violation according to the history log. Let me know my next step so I can get this article restored. Brux 16:27, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * What makes you say there is "original material" beyond what is in the edit history? I can't find any evidence of there having been older versions. --W(t) 16:29, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)

 * There was. I remember it but didn't copy it anywhere - not realizing its importance. How I remember it was it mentioned the President and CEO Douglas McIntyre which I thought was cool and that I had not included. The name McIntyre rang a bell because he was a name of publishing company in Vancouver BC where I lived back in the 80's. It described On2 as a firm working with media-compression. Its first sentence was that its stock is traded on Amex under ONT. So I am not crazy. The only time I saw it was when NatursRoma flagged me with the copyright violation in the middle of an edit and the system came back with a message saying the article had been modified while I was making modifications. When I did some refreshes I got the original content but never saw it again. Possible system problems?? Brux 16:40, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, that would be this version, which is a copyright violation. --W(t) 16:45, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)
 * Nope. That is my version that I was working on. This origianl content was in wiki format. This article version is not. And I said how it started (i.e. traded on Amex) and what it included (President and CEO...). There was original content and it is gone so I can move it to the /temp. Why don't I rewrite it? Because I can only remember what I remember. There was more which I don't remember. What happens now? Brux 16:53, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Now it sits at WP:CP for at least 7 days, and then it gets deleted (unless it turns out not to be a copyvio, which seems unlikely). If anybody rewrites it on /temp that will get moved to the main article. --W(t) 16:57, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)

 * Let me try to answer a few of your questions. I did not flag On2 as a copyright violation with the intention of getting into a personal dispute with you. I found the article because I was looking at a list of recently created pages (which you can see at Special:Newpages). I am interested in mathematics, and because "On2" is very similar to "onto", a term used in mathematics, I was curious about what the article was. I was a little reluctant to put up the tag immediately, because I realized that you were probably still editing the article, but I decided that the sooner the copyrighted information was removed, the sooner a non-copyrighted article could be written. Because you seemed to be a relatively new user, I reasoned that you had not maliciously added the copyrighted information, and added Template:Nothanks to your talk page in order to ask you not to add copyrighted material. NatusRoma 20:41, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Semi-automated template substitution

 * This page was modified to semi-automatically substitute templates using Pathoschild's template list. // Rory 0 96 02:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Oz_garcia_redbkgd.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Oz_garcia_redbkgd.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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Speedy deletion nomination of Gourmet Guides

A tag has been placed on Gourmet Guides requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company, corporation or organization, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the.  Dr Strauss   talk   21:47, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Gourmet Guides for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gourmet Guides is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Gourmet Guides until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.  Dr Strauss   talk   12:01, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Brux


text:
User:JamesMLane/Bush RfC (draft)

On the RfC page
The RfC would begin with the addition of an entry on Requests for Comment reading:

 * Talk:George W. Bush - previous RfC drew little response; this time people from both sides have worked to create a section to give the background to RfC respondents, to make it easier for you to comment. 18:31, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The section below ("RfC: Presentation of substance abuse issues") is what would appear on Talk:George W. Bush. The RfC entry would link to this specific section on the talk page.

RfC: Presentation of substance abuse issues
This article has seen a long-running dispute about how to present information related to Bush’s use or nonuse of alcohol and drugs. Everyone agrees that Bush’s conviction for drunk driving (DUI) should be mentioned, and should appear in its chronological place in the account of his early years, but otherwise, there’s been no stability.

Presented below are:
 * Four different versions of the treatment of this subject.
 * A summary statement on behalf of each version.
 * A poll section where you can express your preference.
 * A section for comments. (Your comments are welcome but please put them here, not before the poll.)

Versions
Each version includes a link to a snapshot of the article as it stood with that version incorporated. These snapshots were taken at different times; you can ignore any differences among them that don’t relate to the substance abuse issues.

Please don't edit these versions here. Other people are responding to specific text, and changing that text might distort their responses. --

Version 1

 * ''In this version, the only items included in the body of the main article are essentially the items found in paragraphs 1 and 4 of Version 3. They are not found under a seperate heading, instead placed in the section under Personal life, service and education. There is no link to the internal daughter article created discussing substance abuse.

Bush has described his days before his religious conversion as his "nomadic" period and "irresponsible youth." and admitted to drinking "too much" in those years; he says that although he never joined Alcoholics Anonymous, he gave up drinking for good shortly after waking up with a hangover after his 40th birthday celebration: "I quit drinking in 1986 and haven't had a drop since then." He ascribed the change in part to a 1985 meeting with The Rev. Billy Graham. ,. In taped recordings of a conversation with an old friend, author Doug Wead, Bush said: “I wouldn’t answer the marijuana question. You know why? Because I don’t want some little kid doing what I tried.” When Wead reminded Bush that the latter had publicly denied using cocaine, Bush replied, "I haven't denied anything." ,.

Snapshot of Version 1 --

Version 2

 * ''In this version, the entire subject is in a daughter article and the following reference constitutes the second section of the main article, after "Personal life, service and education".

Drug and alcohol abuse controversy

There has been much discussion regarding possible drug and alcohol abuses, primarily during Bush's youth. Though Bush admitted to alcohol abuse, he only alluded to using both marijuana and cocaine in his youth. Many books have been written and in at least two of these, Bush is described as having symptoms visible today which indicate that he did abuse drugs and alcohol excessively at some time in his past. See George W. Bush substance abuse controversy for more discussion.

Snapshot of Version 2 --

Version 3

 * In this version, the details are in a daughter article and the following summary constitutes the second section of the main article:

Substance abuse controversy

Bush has described his days before his religious conversion as his "nomadic" period and "irresponsible youth." and admitted to drinking "too much" in those years; he says that although he never joined Alcoholics Anonymous, he gave up drinking for good shortly after waking up with a hangover after his 40th birthday celebration: "I quit drinking in 1986 and haven't had a drop since then." He ascribed the change in part to a 1985 meeting with The Rev. Billy Graham. , ,

Some Bush critics have suggested that his public statements and actions reflect a "classic addictive thinking pattern" common among former alcoholics, and one psychiatrist (Frank, 2004) wrote a book describing him as "an untreated ex-alcoholic with paranoid and megalomaniac tendencies." Other professionals have expressed their disagreement with these analyses. For further details on these arguments, see George W. Bush substance abuse controversy.

Bush has said that he did not use illegal drugs at any time since 1974. He has denied the allegation (Hatfield, 1999) that family influence was used to expunge the record of an arrest for cocaine possession in 1972, but has declined to discuss whether he used drugs before 1974.

In taped recordings of a conversation with an old friend, author Doug Wead, Bush said: “I wouldn’t answer the marijuana question. You know why? Because I don’t want some little kid doing what I tried.” When Wead reminded Bush that the latter had publicly denied using cocaine, Bush replied, "I haven't denied anything." ,

Snapshot of Version 3 --

Version 4

 * In this version, the "Business and early political career" section of the main article includes an internal cross-reference to a separate section on "Alcohol and drug issues” much later in the article, after the "Public perception and assessments" section. Text of the cross-reference, which would come at the end of the paragraph about Bush's arrest for drunk driving:

For further discussion of substance abuse issues, see below.

 * Text of the separate section:

Alcohol and drug issues

Bush has described the first part of his life as his "nomadic" period and "irresponsible youth" and admitted to drinking "too much" in those years. He has stated that, some ten years after his guilty plea to driving under the influence of alcohol, he gave up alcohol, although he never joined Alcoholics Anonymous. He ascribed the change in part to a 1985 meeting with The Rev. Billy Graham. The final impetus, he says, came when he woke up with a hangover after his 40th birthday celebration: "I quit drinking in 1986 and haven't had a drop since then." , ,

In an article published by Counterpunch on October 11, 2002, Katherine van Wormer, a professor of social work and writer on addiction treatment, stated that Bush still displays "all the classic patterns of addictive thinking", which can occur even in an alcoholic who has stopped drinking. More specifically, she argued that Bush exhibits "the tendency to go to extremes," a "kill or be killed mentality," incoherence while speaking away from script, impatience, irritability in the face of disagreement, and a rigid, judgmental outlook. She added that the 2003 invasion of Iraq was primarily a result of his relationship with his father: "the targeting of Iraq had become one man’s personal crusade." Van Wormer's analysis, expressed in colloquial rather than clinical terms, drew on her own addiction treatment experience and writings, as she did not meet with Bush in person.

Justin Frank, a clinical professor of psychiatry at The George Washington University Medical School, has incorporated similar, though apparently independent, observations into a book about Bush, Bush on the Couch ISBN 0060736704. Frank's book has been highly praised by other prominent psychiatrists and has found confirmation from a childhood friend of Bush and from Bush's disaffected former treasury secretary. .

Frank's book also has its critics. Irwin Savodnik, a psychiatrist who teaches at the University of California, Los Angeles, described Frank's book as a "psychoanalytic hatchet job" and said that "there is not an ounce of psychoanalytic material in the entire book." The code of the American Psychiatric Association, of which Frank is not a member, states that "it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion unless he or she has conducted an examination and has been granted proper authorization for such a statement." Although Frank had in the past written for Salon, the online magazine reviewed the book unfavorably, arguing that it included "dubious theories" and that Frank had failed in his avowed intention to distinguish his partisan opinions from his psychoanalytic evaluation of Bush's character.

Bush has also been dogged by suspicions about possible drug use. He has said that he did not use illegal drugs at any time since 1974. He has declined to discuss whether he used drugs before 1974.

In taped recordings of a conversation with an old friend, author Doug Wead, Bush said: “I wouldn’t answer the marijuana question. You know why? Because I don’t want some little kid doing what I tried.” When Wead reminded Bush that the latter had publicly denied using cocaine, Bush replied, "I haven't denied anything." , In 1999, James Hatfield published a biography of Bush, Fortunate Son (ISBN 1887128840), a largely favorable account of the life of the younger Bush and the Bush family in general. Hatfield said that he had investigated allegations that Bush had been arrested for cocaine possession and that the Bush family had the record expunged. Hatfield wondered if Bush's work at Project P.U.L.L. in Houston in 1972 could have been community service performed as part of such an arrangement. Hatfield stated that this version of events was confirmed by three sources; he did not name them, but described them as being close to the Bush family. Hatfield's original publisher later recalled the book after learning of Hatfield's concealed felony conviction resulting from an unsuccessful murder conspiracy. Hatfield responded that, before the Bush campaign brought pressure to bear, the same publisher had stated that the book had been "carefully fact-checked and scrutinized by lawyers". Hatfield never named his sources, but in 2001 his new publisher, against his wishes, stated that they were Karl Rove, Clay Johnson, and Michael Dannenhauer. Bush called Hatfield's book "totally ridiculous". Hatfield committed suicide in 2001.

During the 2004 campaign, a Salon writer asserted that, on April 21, 1972, the National Guard began random drug-testing of guardsmen, and that Bush stopped flying at about that time and took no more Guard physical exams. The issue had also arisen in 2000, when a Bush spokesperson said that he had not known of any drug testing by the Guard. ,

Snapshot of Version 4

For Version 1
Version 1 constitutes the only passages almost universally accepted as fact. It has been agreed by almost everyone involved that these two major points are factual, NPOV and based on reliable witnesses. In the two major points, Bush essentially admits to alcohol use and alludes to illegal drug use. Though some have argued that Bush was misinterpreted due to his usual poor choice of wording, most feel that his comments that he "hadn't denied anything", in response to a question posed regarding his public denial of illegal drug use, and his comment that "he didn't want some little kid doing what I tried" in response to why he wouldn't answer a question posed by others regarding marijuana use, are both essential admissions on his part to the use of illegal drugs. Placing the paragraph immediately after the DUI conviction he had in 1976 is a good fit as they are chronologically accurate. There is no link provided to the sub article because the same information is also there and the remainder of the information is the reason this is in Rfc. This version provides the only version that has information that is not under dispute. Proponents of this version feel that nothing more is needed to "prove" the issues, and that the remainder of the information is mainly opinion, sensationalistic and politically motivated. Incorporation of this version would contribute to the probability that the NPOV tag on the article could be dropped. An example of the version is here [].

For Version 2
Version 2 provides a summary and an adequate link to the sub article which provides all details. The summary removes most of the argument off the main article helping it to become more streamlined. This compromise would result in a significant reduction in edits and or edit wars regarding information that has been disputed by some and supported by others. All of the material that has been in dispute can be easily linked to in the link provided. The summary provides a snapshot of the sub article in that it openly states that Bush admitted to alcohol abuse (which is not much of a revelation to anyone) and may have also abused two illegal drugs. Additionally, the summary mentions two detractors of the current behavior patterns of Bush as being the end result of previous alcohol and or drug use without making direct quotes which are provided in the sub article. Direct quotes in the main article have resulted in a demand by some for direct quotes disputing this information in a form of quid pro quo, making the article longer. The summary allows balance to return to the entire dispute as it removes the dispute to another article. This has occurred repeatedly in this article as evidenced by many links to discussions regarding election controversies and military service. This version appeared here: []

For Version 3
This version is based on some editors’ efforts to reach a compromise (discussion). It presents the issue in full in a daughter article with a summary in the main article.

As compared with Version 1, which wouldn't even link to the detailed article, Version 3 includes the link and at least makes the information available. The link is repeated in the second paragraph (contrary to normal style) because of a desire to make absolutely clear that there is controversy about the criticisms referred to in the first sentence of the paragraph.

As compared with Version 2, which says only that Bush "alluded" to past abuse, Version 3 quotes what he actually said. His statements about his past are unusually personal for a world leader and should be in the article verbatim. Furthermore, in treating the allegations made against Bush, Version 3 follows Wikipedia policy for spinning off a particular controversy into a daughter article: "In most cases, it is a violation of the neutral point of view to specifically break out a ‘controversial’ section without leaving an adequate summary." (Article size). The summary in Version 2 is not adequate. Its vague phrase "much discussion" doesn't tell the reader what allegations have been made. The only expansion it provides is misleading; the sources are discussing Bush’s underlying personality, not any lingering effects of past alcohol abuse. Version 2 also uses the word "youth" twice; Version 3 tells the reader that Bush quit drinking at age 40.

As compared with Version 4, Version 3 reduces the length and level of detail of the presentation by limiting it to a statement of what the allegations are, the fact of Bush’s denial, and the fact of professional disagreeents. All the evidence and arguments advanced by both sides are left to the daughter article. Some readers will be interested in seeing that detail and some won’t; Version 3 accommodates both groups.

For Version 4
The edit war over this issue has occurred because at least one editor doesn’t want to include opinions about Bush that "are dubious to a majority of persons..." This exclusion of minority opinions would contradict Wikipedia policy as set forth in Neutral point of view. Version 4 describes points of view that are unfavorable to Bush, but it does not adopt them. In addition, it fairly presents the opposing POV, giving all the facts cited by critics. Each of the disputed passages represents a notable viewpoint that merits inclusion: Version 4 presents these assessments of Bush, along with the opposing points of view.
 * Drugs: Hatfield’s book, with his conclusions about Bush’s cocaine conviction, was a best seller that reached #8 on the amazon.com chart and has been the subject of a documentary film. There was news coverage of the book, of Bush's threat of a lawsuit, and of the publisher's decision to withdraw the book.  Version 4 reports Hatfield’s charge, reports Bush's denial of it, and reports the publisher’s action, along with the other facts that people have pointed to in attacking Hatfield’s credibility.  Bush's denial of Hatfield's charge is also relevant in assessing his refusal to make a blanket denial of cocaine use before 1974.  That refusal is not based on a general refusal to speak about pre-1974 events, as some of Bush’s other comments might imply.  The Salon article noted the coincidence in timing of Bush's National Guard career with the beginning of drug testing; the whole National Guard issue received heavy media attention, in the course of which this aspect of the drug issue was raised.  Version 4 summarizes the article and a Bush spokesperson's response.
 * Addictive personality: Van Wormer is a professor of social work and has co-authored a book about the treatment of addiction (Addiction Treatment: A Strengths Perspective, ISBN 0534596703, reviewed in an academic journal as "a must read for social workers and other allied health and substance abuse treatment professionals"). Her credentials make her opinions on addiction-related matters noteworthy.  Her Counterpunch piece quoted here also appeared in the Irish Times (available online only for a fee), and a revised version appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle .  Frank is a professor of psychiatry who wrote a book about Bush from a psychiatric perspective.  His book received enough attention to be used by Fidel Castro as the basis for an attack on Bush, another indication of its notability.

The trouble with moving this subject to a daughter article, as Versions 2 and 3 do, is that there isn't really enough material to need its own article. (See, by comparison, the much longer George W. Bush military service controversy, which couldn't be accommodated in the main article.)

Some editors supported putting this information in the main article but didn't want it to appear an early section, even though that's its chronological place. Therefore, Version 4 leaves only an internal cross-reference in the section on Bush's early life. The section addressing substance abuse comes later on, after the description of Bush's presidency.

Poll
Please add your name under the version you think is best. If you’re fundamentally dissatisfied with all of them, you can pick “None of the above”, but please give us some idea of what you’d prefer.

Supporting Version 1

 * 1) --MONGO 02:55, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Supporting Version 2

 * 1) This one works for me. I took a look at the Bill Clinton's pre-Presidency scandals (see Bill_Clinton) and there is one short paragraph on sexual issues followed by one short paragraph on drug issues.  With the links there, anyone can get all the details they want.  Both of these men are well known and we seem to be underestimating the readers' ability to follow the links if the scandal issues are of interest to them.  Keep the main article short, but have good detail in the linked article.  Version 2 seems to do this for me.  NoSeptember (talk)  20:35, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * 1) I too feel that this is the best option, largely for the reasons already given by NoSeptember. Version 3 is OK. V4 is far too long-winded a treatment of something which is not, in truth, all that important an issue in the big picture to merit inclusion in the main piece. V1 smells faintly of sabotage and suppression :D --jamesgibbon 14:42, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Supporting Version 4

 * 1) Neutralitytalk 03:46, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Comments
The most recent discussions of the subject can be found in the last archived talk page (more than half the threads) and in several of the threads above on this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:JamesMLane/Bush RfC (draft)


text: User talk:71.97.176.147

title: User talk:71.97.176.147


text: Category:Indoor arenas in Greece

title: Category:Indoor arenas in Greece


text:
Garrison school

Garrison schools (гарнизо́нные шко́лы) in 18th century Russia were military schools that provided the primary education for the children of the military recruits. The institution of the Garrison schools was introduced by the ukase (decree) of Tsar Peter the Great in 1721 primarily for the children of military recruits in the course of Peter's reform of the Russian military. This so-called military revolution transformed the military from an archaic militia-like force to the regular army, which drew upon military recruits called, predominantly from enserfed peasantry, to serve for 25 years, which, given the expected life span of most Russian serfs at the time, essentially meant that they would serve for life. The recruits and their children born after the recruitment were liberated from the serf status, and a network of Garrison schools was created for the children's education. The boys, starting from the age of 7, were taught literacy, elementary math, "artillery and military engineering", but also fine arts and several trade professions, such as shoe-making, sewing, wood- and metal-working, etc.

Initially, 49 schools were founded, each for 50 boys aged 7 to 15. Upon completion of elementary study course, the boys' education was specialized as follows: 10 boys studied artillery and fortification, 20 studied music (drums and singing), 10 studied trade professions and 10 studied clerical work and writing, scrivenery (письмоводство). Most school graduates entered the military service.

In 1798, the Garrison schools were renamed "Military institutions for the orphans" (военно-сиротские отделения) which in turn were transformed into Cantonist schools.

title: Garrison school


text:
File:Metal Gear cover.jpg

Summary
Japanese front cover of Metal Gear for the MSX2. Taken from GameFAQs.

Rationale for fair use in Metal Gear (video game)

 * The public display of the image is in no way detrimental to copyright holder's commercial interests
 * The image is being used for informational purposes only, and its use is not believed to detract from the original game in any way.
 * This image has been used in several websites, and so use on Wikipedia does not make it significantly more accessible or visible than it already is
 * The image is of lower resolution than the original (copies made from it will be of inferior quality)
 * No free or public domain images equivalent can be found, because this is the original artwork.

title: File:Metal Gear cover.jpg


text: Category:Indoor arenas in New Zealand

title: Category:Indoor arenas in New Zealand


text:
Red Bull Trolley Grand Prix

The Red Bull Trolley Grand Prix is a novelty downhill race for unpowered vehicles sponsored by caffeinated drink manufacturer Red Bull. It is held in odd numbered years in the city of Auckland, New Zealand.

The gravity-only powered racers compete on a 700 m downhill racetrack through the Auckland Domain. Vehicles must weigh less than 80 kg, and be no larger than 3 m long by 1.5 m wide by 2 m high. Teams are expected to build trolleys to a theme and must perform a one-minute song/dance/skit before the race commences.

Scores are allocated for originality of concept, speed down the course and quality of performance (including spectacularity of crashes). Races compete in pairs but elapsed time is the only speed criteria considered. Winners were awarded a trip for the whole team to the Melbourne Formula One Grand Prix motor race, or up to NZ$10,000 in other years.

Event results

 * 2003
 * Winning Team : Rubber Duck Racing
 * Elapsed Time : 48 Seconds
 * Concept : Bathtub on wheels complete with working shower.
 * 2005
 * Winning Team : Wanganui Motors Transformers
 * Elapsed Time : 48 Seconds
 * Concept : Replica Ford Racing Saloon Car.
 * 2013
 * Winning Team : Team Zoom Car Wash
 * Elapsed Time : 45.56 Seconds
 * Concept : Fibreglass car.

title: Red Bull Trolley Grand Prix


text:
File:U2earlydemos.jpg

Summary
Cover of U2's Early Demos EP.

Fair Use Rationale
--typhoon 22:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

title: File:U2earlydemos.jpg


text:
Scrubber

Scrubber systems (e.g. chemical scrubbers, gas scrubbers) are a diverse group of air pollution control devices that can be used to remove some particulates and/or gases from industrial exhaust streams. An early application of a carbon dioxide scrubber was in the submarine the Ictíneo I, in 1859; a role for which they continue to be used today. Traditionally, the term "scrubber" has referred to pollution control devices that use liquid to wash unwanted pollutants from a gas stream. Recently, the term has also been used to describe systems that inject a dry reagent or slurry into a dirty exhaust stream to "wash out" acid gases. Scrubbers are one of the primary devices that control gaseous emissions, especially acid gases. Scrubbers can also be used for heat recovery from hot gases by flue-gas condensation. They are also used for the high flows in solar, PV, or LED processes.

There are several methods to remove toxic or corrosive compounds from exhaust gas and neutralize it.

Combustion
Combustion is sometimes the cause of harmful exhausts, but, in many cases, combustion may also be used for exhaust gas cleaning if the temperature is high enough and enough oxygen is available.

Wet scrubbing
The exhaust gases of combustion may contain substances considered harmful to the environment, and the scrubber may remove or neutralize those. A wet scrubber is used for cleaning air, fuel gas or other gases of various pollutants and dust particles. Wet scrubbing works via the contact of target compounds or particulate matter with the scrubbing solution. Water is the most common solvent used to remove inorganic contaminants, particularly for dust, but solutions of reagents that specifically target certain compounds may also be used.

Process exhaust gas can also contain water-soluble toxic and/or corrosive gases like hydrochloric acid (HCl) or ammonia (NH3). These can be removed very well by a wet scrubber.

Removal efficiency of pollutants is improved by increasing residence time in the scrubber or by the increase of surface area of the scrubber solution by the use of a spray nozzle, packed towers or an aspirator. Wet scrubbers may increase the proportion of water in the gas, resulting in a visible stack plume, if the gas is sent to a stack.

Wet scrubbers can also be used for heat recovery from hot gases by flue-gas condensation. In this mode, termed a condensing scrubber, water from the scrubber drain is circulated through a cooler to the nozzles at the top of the scrubber. The hot gas enters the scrubber at the bottom. If the gas temperature is above the water dew point, it is initially cooled by evaporation of water drops. Further cooling causes water vapors to condense, adding to the amount of circulating water.

The condensation of water releases significant amounts of low temperature heat due to the high value of the specific latent heat of the vaporisation of water (more than 2 GJ per ton of water ), which can be recovered by the cooler for e.g. district heating purposes.

Excess condensed water must continuously be removed from the circulating water.

Dry scrubbing
A dry or semi-dry scrubbing system, unlike the wet scrubber, does not saturate the flue gas stream that is being treated with moisture. In some cases no moisture is added, while in others only the amount of moisture that can be evaporated in the flue gas without condensing is added. Therefore, dry scrubbers generally do not have a stack steam plume or wastewater handling/disposal requirements. Dry scrubbing systems are used to remove acid gases (such as SO2 and HCl) primarily from combustion sources.

There are a number of dry type scrubbing system designs. However, all consist of two main sections or devices: a device to introduce the acid gas sorbent material into the gas stream and a particulate matter control device to remove reaction products, excess sorbent material as well as any particulate matter already in the flue gas.

Dry scrubbing systems can be categorized as dry sorbent injectors (DSIs) or as spray dryer absorbers (SDAs). Spray dryer absorbers are also called semi-dry scrubbers or spray dryers.

Dry scrubbing systems are often used for the removal of odorous and corrosive gases from wastewater treatment plant operations. The medium used is typically an activated alumina compound impregnated with materials to handle specific gases such as hydrogen sulfide. Media used can be mixed together to offer a wide range of removal for other odorous compounds such as methyl mercaptans, aldehydes, volatile organic compounds, dimethyl sulfide, and dimethyl disulfide.

Dry sorbent injection involves the addition of an alkaline material (usually hydrated lime, soda ash, or sodium bicarbonate) into the gas stream to react with the acid gases. The sorbent can be injected directly into several different locations: the combustion process, the flue gas duct (ahead of the particulate control device), or an open reaction chamber (if one exists). The acid gases react with the alkaline sorbents to form solid salts which are removed in the particulate control device. These simple systems can achieve only limited acid gas (SO2 and HCl) removal efficiencies. Higher collection efficiencies can be achieved by increasing the flue gas humidity (i.e., cooling using water spray). These devices have been used on medical waste incinerators and a few municipal waste combustors.

In spray dryer absorbers, the flue gases are introduced into an absorbing tower (dryer) where the gases are contacted with a finely atomized alkaline slurry. Acid gases are absorbed by the slurry mixture and react to form solid salts which are removed by the particulate control device. The heat of the flue gas is used to evaporate all the water droplets, leaving a non-saturated flue gas to exit the absorber tower. Spray dryers are capable of achieving high (80+%) acid gas removal efficiencies. These devices have been used on industrial and utility boilers and municipal waste incinerators.

Adsorber
Many chemicals can be removed from exhaust gas also by using adsorber material. The flue gas is passed through a cartridge which is filled with one or several adsorber materials and has been adapted to the chemical properties of the components to be removed. This type of scrubber is sometimes also called dry scrubber. The adsorber material has to be replaced after its surface is saturated. Note: adsorption is a surface phenomena, absorption involves the entire material. Ex: Activated carbon an adsorbent, used for the adsorption of odorous compounds.

Mercury removal
Mercury is a highly toxic element commonly found in coal and municipal waste. Wet scrubbers are only effective for removal of soluble mercury species, such as oxidized mercury, Hg2+. Mercury vapor in its elemental form, Hg0, is insoluble in the scrubber slurry and not removed. Therefore, an additional process of Hg0 conversion is required to complete mercury capture. Usually halogens are added to the flue gas for this purpose. The type of coal burned as well as the presence of a selective catalytic reduction unit both affect the ratio of elemental to oxidized mercury in the flue gas and thus the degree to which the mercury is removed.

In July 2015, one study found that some mercury scrubbers installed on coal power plants inadvertently capture PAH (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) emissions as well.

Scrubber waste products
One side effect of scrubbing is that the process only moves the unwanted substance from the exhaust gases into a liquid solution, solid paste or powder form. This must be disposed of safely, if it can not be reused.

For example, mercury removal results in a waste product that either needs further processing to extract the raw mercury, or must be buried in a special hazardous wastes landfill that prevents the mercury from seeping out into the environment. There are issues with that, as it is extremely dangerous to the environment, and many factories cannot process them or have it moved to a landfill.

As an example of reuse, limestone-based scrubbers in coal-fired power plants can produce a synthetic gypsum of sufficient quality that can be used to manufacture drywall and other industrial products.

Bacteria spread
Poorly maintained scrubbers have the potential to spread disease-causing bacteria. The problem is a result of inadequate cleaning. For example, the cause of a 2005 outbreak of Legionnaires' disease in Norway was just a few infected scrubbers. The outbreak caused 10 deaths and more than 50 cases of infection.

Scrubbers on ships
Scrubbers were first used on board ships for the production of inert gas for oil tanker operations.

Later, in preparation for the global 0.5% sulfur cap in 2020, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) adopted guidelines on the approval, installation and use of exhaust gas scrubbers (exhaust gas cleaning systems) on board ships to ensure compliance with the sulfur regulation of MARPOL Annex VI. Flag states must approve such systems and port states can (as part of their port state control) ensure that such systems are functioning correctly. If a scrubber system is not functioning properly (and the IMO procedures for such malfunctions are not adhered to), port states can sanction the ship. The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea also bestows port states with a right to regulate (and even ban) the use of open loop scrubber systems within ports and internal waters.

title: Scrubber


text:
File:U2lovepointdepot.jpg

Summary
Cover of U2's Live from the Point Depot live album.

Fair Use Rationale
--typhoon 22:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

title: File:U2lovepointdepot.jpg


text:
Sila

Sila may refer to :

Places and jurisdictions

 * Asia
 * Silla, one of the three kingdoms of ancient Korea
 * Sila, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
 * Europe
 * La Sila, a mountainous area of Calabria, Italy
 * Sila National Park
 * Siła, Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship, a village in Poland
 * Africa
 * Sila, Numidia, a former Ancient city and bishopric, now Bordj-El-Ksar in Algeria and a Latin Catholic titular see
 * Sila Region, Chad
 * Sila Department, Chad, part of Sila Region since 2008

Religion and Mythology

 * Śīla (in Sanskrit) or sīla (in Pāli), "behavioral discipline", "morality", "virtue" or "ethics" in Buddhism
 * Sila (mythology), in Arab folklore a type of jinn, or genie
 * Sila (murti), in Hinduism a murti or vigraha in the form of a stone
 * Silap Inua (sila), in Inuit mythology, the primary component of everything that exists

Entertainment

 * Sila (2016 TV series), a Pakistani drama series
 * Silaa, a 2020 album by Zubeen Garg
 * Sıla (TV series), a Turkish television series
 * Sila (film), a 1988 Indian film directed by B. R. Ishara
 * Sila and the Afrofunk Experience, a band with lead singer Sila Mutungi

People

 * Sıla (given name), Turkish feminine name
 * Sila María Calderón (born 1942), Puerto Rican politician
 * Music
 * Sila Godoy (1919–2014), Paraguayan guitarist
 * Sıla Gençoğlu (born 1980), Turkish singer
 * Sports
 * Sila Srikampang (born 1989), Thai footballer
 * Alo Sila, American football player

Other uses

 * SiLA (airlines), a Russian regional airline
 * Sila language (Sino-Tibetan), a language of Vietnam and Laos
 * Sila language (Chad), a language of Chad
 * Sila Nanotechnologies, a battery manufacturer
 * Sila people, an ethnic group of Vietnam and Laos
 * Aero East Europe Sila, a Serbian family of light aircraft
 * Society of Illustrators of Los Angeles, a not-for-profit organization
 * Svensk Interkontinental Lufttrafik AB, a Swedish airline
 * Standardization in Lab Automation, a not-for-profit organization
 * The primary body of Sila–Nunam, an object in the Solar System
 * A volume also known as a "bowl" in ancient Mesopotamian units of measurement

title: Sila


text:
WLKO

WLKO (102.9 FM, "The Lake") is a commercial radio station licensed to Hickory, North Carolina, and serving the Charlotte metropolitan area. It airs an adult hits radio format that leans toward classic hits. For much of November and December, it switches to Christmas music. It is owned by iHeartMedia, with studios on Woodridge Center Drive, just off the Billy Graham Parkway, near Charlotte Douglas International Airport.

WLKO is a Class C1 station, with an effective radiated power (ERP) of 31,000 watts. The transmitter is on Omega Lane, off North Carolina Highway 27 in Iron Station. WLKO broadcasts in the HD Radio format. On its HD2 subchannel, it carries Pride Radio, iHeart's LGBTQ contemporary and dance music service.

WHKY-FM
The station signed on the air on January 20, 1959. Its original call sign was WHKY-FM, the sister station to WHKY 1290 AM. The two stations were owned by Catawba Valley Broadcasting and mostly simulcast their programming, as network affiliates of ABC Radio. WHKY-FM was powered at 14,800 watts, a fraction of its current output. It concentrated on the Hickory area and its signal did not easily reach the larger Charlotte radio market.

WHKY-AM-FM aired mostly Christian radio programming in their early history. They primarily carried fundamentalist Baptist hymns and Southern gospel quartets such as The Blackwood Brothers and the Oak Ridge Quartet. Listeners were mostly over 55.

The FM station broke away on October 16, 1982. It began airing a Top 40 format that leaned toward album rock. Many of WKHY-FM's previous listeners protested the change with letters to the local newspaper, and a pile of letters to the station described as one foot high, 95 percent opposed. The Top 40 format targeted the 18 to 30 audience, which attracted many more advertisers.

WRLX and WEZC
On September 1, 1987, WKHY-FM got a signal boost and its tower was moved closer to Charlotte. The station could now be a player in the more lucrative Charlotte market. It switched its call sign to WRLX, becoming "Relax 102.9". It aired a beautiful music format. Relax 102.9 played a mix of soft instrumentals with occasional vocals, Broadway and Hollywood show tunes.

WRLX promoted itself with images of a pair of retirement-age punk rockers, intended to humorously illustrate how the competition apparently viewed the station's target audience. In March 1989, the station changed its call sign to WEZC (after the 104.7 frequency gave up those letters). The EZ call letters represented easy listening music. The station began calling itself "EZ 102.9", gradually adding more vocals during the summer to make the transition from beautiful music to MOR. Some of the announcers include Bob Brandon, Jim Davenport, Catherine Lane, Jon Robinson and Todd Edwards.

WLYT
In 1993, the moniker changed again to "Lite 102.9" as the station moved away from Barbra Streisand, Neil Diamond and Barry Manilow to soft adult contemporary artists such as Phil Collins, Elton John and Billy Joel. Once again, the call letters switched to WLYT in 1995. Over the years, as the definition of soft adult contemporary changed, WLYT evolved. The station played pop and lite rock music from the 1970s to present, with an occasional 1960s song. The nationally syndicated call-in and request show Delilah After Dark aired in the evenings.

WLYT featured a "70's Flashback Weekend" every weekend since late 2004 through 2005, but discontinued this tradition after the slogan changed from "Continuous Lite Favorites" to "The Best Variety of Yesterday and Today". The station played Christmas music annually, with 'preview weekends' from early November through Thanksgiving, then a 24-hour Christmas format from Thanksgiving through Christmas Day. WLYT's main competitor was CBS Radio's WKQC. WLYT had changed its slogan from The Best Variety of Yesterday and Today to The Bright New Sound of Lite 102.9 in 2011.

In late January 2008, WLYT changed its morning show. It wanted to resemble the Today show on NBC, with more talk geared toward women 25 to 54. During the first hour, the talk was more hard news, becoming lighter as the morning show progressed and adding more music during work hours. The program schedule was altered as well. The show was discontinued in early 2010 with morning hosts Jim Shafer (who had moved to the station from WWMG in 2004) and Jen Byrum (morning host since 1999) being released. On April 13, 2010, Valentine in the Morning, a syndicated show from sister station KBIG-FM in Los Angeles, made its debut. A local host was planned for local segments of the show.

WLKO
On July 2, 2012, at midnight, WLYT changed its format to adult hits, branded as "102.9 The Lake". The final song on "Lite" was "Far Away" by Nickelback, while the first song on the "Lake" was "Father of Mine" by Everclear.

Steve Geofferies, operations manager for the Charlotte cluster of station owner Clear Channel, said, "If it was a hit song, we're going to play it," explaining that the format was based on WARH in St. Louis, and more "tempo-oriented" than nearby WSMW. The name "Lake" meant "fun, unique, connecting with friends and families. That's life on the lake," specifically Lake Norman and Lake Wylie. The playlist was 4,000 songs compared to 400 for a typical station. Also, the station would not have DJs. That meant morning hosts Heather Flynn and Phil Harris were let go. On July 9, 2012, WLYT changed its call letters to WLKO to go with the "Lake" branding.

The format change delivered immediate results. While WLYT ranked 15th with 3 percent share of the total audience in its final ratings report, WLKO was ranked 7th with five percent share in its first one. After two years, WLKO was up 52 percent to 4th place for the most successful format change in the market in 25 years. The playlist primarily features hit music from the 1970s, 80s and 90s with some 2000s music played. With this, the station more closely resembles a classic hits station than the adult hits format the station started out with, though the "We Play Anything" slogan is still promoted.

On September 16, 2014, WLKO's owners Clear Channel Communications officially changed its name to iHeartMedia, Inc.

title: WLKO


text: User talk:69.159.5.122

title: User talk:69.159.5.122


text:
Talk:Eric Smith (murderer)

Sentence
The article should say what penalty he was sentenced to. --64.165.112.146 22:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Occupation
Smith's current occupation is prisoner. "Murderer" is not an occupation unless you're a hired killer, and then the more accurate description would be "criminal" or "career criminal." -- Cecropia 20:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120706101125/http://www.13wham.com:80/news/local/story/eric-smith-explains-why-he-killed/TQ0pWJJ-pUi-yEPoW8uxfQ.cspx to http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/eric-smith-explains-why-he-killed/TQ0pWJJ-pUi-yEPoW8uxfQ.cspx

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External links modified
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Melinda Loveless
Why is Melinda Loveless linked? she didn't kill a toddler like Smith and Bell did. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 14:56, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In the Murder of Shanda Sharer the victim was 12 and the perpetrators were between 15 and 17. This is not in quite the same league as the Bulger or Eric Smith cases. There was an element of torture in the case, so there are some similarities. This type of behaviour by minors is rare, so the "see also" is not completely irrelevant.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 16:09, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 14 April 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Garnarblarnar (talk) 06:27, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Eric Smith (murderer) → Killing of Derrick Robie – The title seems more relevant Tbf69 (talk) 17:47, 14 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:25, 25 April 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment Per WP:DEATHS, Murder of Derrick Robie would be the preferred wording, as Eric Smith was convicted of murder. 162 etc. (talk) 01:23, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: Agree that "Murder of" is the correct wording. Not convinced about changing the article title.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:45, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree that it would need to be title Murder of Derrick Robie. I would also like to note that the article in its current state focuses heavily on Eric Smith, and is named after him. If we were to move it to the Killing of Derrick Robie, I would think a reformat of the article would be in order to properly fit the article.  Heart  (talk) 04:27, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support moving to Murder of Derrick Robie. In line with Murder of James Bulger, a certain part of the article focuses on both people instead of just Smith. The see also section all have 'murder of...' instead of 'killing of'. Also murderer is not a profession which usually disambiguates people who share the same names as one another on Wikipedia. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:20, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This article is in large and specific part about Eric Smith, not Derrick Robie or the case (it deals with the aftermath, but does not detail the court proceedings or tragic event itself beyond the most basic of necessary facts to continue Smith's story). It does not make sense to change the title to the aforementioned suggestion. Rather, it would be more logical to begin a new page specifically dedicated to Derrick Robie and/or his case. Unless someone plans to rewrite the entire page to better fit the proposed title change, I disagree with the alteration. Vim777 (talk) 05:47, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Sources and content are more about the murderer than the victim. Murder is correct for the title. The nomination statement is completely wrong. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose The article is primarily about Eric Smith himself, not to mention most of the sources about Smith than the murder itself. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 20:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose: To clarify, I oppose changing the article title. As others have said, the article is about Smith rather than the murder.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 07:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose This article is about Smith. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 03:59, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Lack of Pictures
This article lacks any pictures. Being well publicized at the time and long analyzed in the years after, there are a plethora of pictures available. Given the fact that murderers tend to overshadow their victims, Derrick Joseph Robie is the picture that should receive the highest priority to be added to this article. 98.235.68.109 (talk) 16:09, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

 * This is being held back by the fair use guidelines. It isn't possible to lift images at will from news websites etc because this would lead to complaints about the copyright status. There is also the question of whether it is going to enhance a person's understanding of the murder to know what Robie looked like. There is an image of Robie (and Smith) in this news story, but I don't think it's a priority to add it here, per WP:NFCC#8.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 18:21, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eric Smith (murderer)


text:
Sikorsky MH-60 Jayhawk

The Sikorsky MH-60T Jayhawk is a multi-mission, twin-engine, medium-range helicopter operated by the United States Coast Guard for search and rescue, law enforcement, military readiness and marine environmental protection missions. It was originally designated HH-60J before being upgraded and redesignated in 2007.

Chosen to replace the HH-3F Pelican, the MH-60T is a member of the Sikorsky S-70 family of helicopters and is based on the United States Navy's SH-60 Seahawk helicopter. Development began in September 1986, first flight was achieved on 8 August 1989, and the first HH-60J entered USCG service in June 1990. Production ended in 1996 after 42 helicopters were produced; six retired SH-60F Seahawks were also remanufactured to MH-60T specifications beginning in 2010.

In 2017, the USCG established a Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) to extend the service life of its current MH-60T fleet by rebuilding the aircraft with replacement aircraft hulls sourced from newly manufactured hulls from Lockheed Martin or conversion of retired US Navy aircraft. In 2023, the USCG obtained approval to begin acquisition of 12 additional MH-60T to replace some MH-65 aircraft. The USCG plans to eventually transition to an all MH-60T fleet.

Development
Chosen to replace the HH-3F Pelican, the HH-60J was based on the United States Navy's SH-60 Seahawk and a member of the Sikorsky S-70 helicopter family. Compared to its predecessor, the HH-3F, the HH-60J is lighter, faster, and equipped with more sophisticated electronics and more powerful engines. The HH-60J was developed in conjunction with the U.S. Navy's HH-60H Rescue Hawk.

Sikorsky began development in September 1986 and aircraft registration number 6001 achieved first flight on 8 August 1989. The first aircraft was delivered to the USCG for developmental testing in March 1990 at NAS Patuxent River, Maryland. In March 1991, ATC Mobile, Alabama became the first USCG unit to fly the HH-60J, allowing instructor pilots to prepare for pilot training. Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City, North Carolina was the first USCG operational unit to fly the HH-60J. Sikorsky produced 42 HH-60Js with sequential registration numbers from 6001 through 6042. Sikorsky ended production in 1996 after completing the 42 units on contract. Subsequently, the Coast Guard has converted six ex-Navy SH-60F Seahawks into MH-60T Jayhawks (registration numbers 6043-6048) to replace attrition and expand fleet.

MH-60T upgrade program
The USCG began converting its 42 HH-60Js to MH-60Ts in January 2007. This avionics and capabilities upgrade is part of the USCG's Integrated Deepwater System Program and provide a glass cockpit, an enhanced electro-optic/infrared sensor system as well as a radar sensor system and airborne use of force capability. The airborne use of force package includes both weapons for firing warning and disabling shots and armor to protect the aircrew from small arms fire. The MH-60T upgrades were completed in February 2014.

Design

The normal cruising speed of the MH-60T is 135 to 140 kn and the aircraft is capable of reaching 180 kn for short durations. It can fly at 140 kn for six to seven hours. With a fuel capacity of 6460 lb, the helicopter is designed to fly a crew of four up to 300 mi offshore, hoist up to six additional people on board while remaining on-scene for up to 45 minutes and return to base while maintaining an adequate fuel reserve.

The Jayhawk has a radar for search/weather that gives its nose a distinctive look. A forward looking infrared (FLIR) sensor turret can be mounted below its nose. It can carry three 120 USgal fuel tanks with two on the port side rack and one on the starboard side rack. The starboard side also carries a 600 lbf capacity rescue hoist mounted above the door. The hoist has 200 ft of cable. It uses the NAVSTAR Global Positioning System as its primary long range navigational aid, using a Collins RCVR-3A radio to simultaneously receive information from four of the NAVSTAR system's 18 worldwide satellites. The helicopter is normally based on land but can be based on 270 foot medium endurance Coast Guard Cutters (WMEC) or 418 foot Legend-Class National Security Cutters (WMSL).

The MH-60T is equipped with a 7.62 mm M240H medium machine gun and a .50 in Barrett M82 semi-automatic rifle for firing warning and disabling shots. These weapons also serve as defensive armament.

Operational history

In 1990, HH-60J Jayhawks began replacing HH-3F Pelican and CH-3E Sea King helicopters in service with the US Coast Guard. HH-60Js perform search and rescue missions, along with other missions such as maritime patrol and drug interdiction. Coast Guard cutters with their HH-60Js and other helicopters performed security and interdiction in the Persian Gulf in 1991 in support of Operation Desert Storm and also in 2003 for Operation Enduring Freedom.

Starting in 2009, Coast Guard Jayhawks have been tasked with a secondary mission of drug patrol/enforcement. These missions are usually conducted in cooperation with Coast Guard cutters.

In 2016, some Jayhawks were delivered in a yellow color scheme celebrating 100 years of Coast Guard aviation. The yellow color scheme represented colors used on certain Coast Guard and Navy helicopters in the 1940s and 1950s. The first of the operational aircraft in this color scheme was delivered to Air Station Astoria in Oregon on 15 January 2016. The Jayhawk along with the Eurocopter MH-65 Dolphin are the two helicopter types in the Coast Guard inventory.

On 21 October 2023, a USCG Jawhawk operating from Air Station Elizabeth City was used to rescue four Canadian mariners from an overturned 60-foot catamaran, about 140 miles southeast of Wilmington, North Carolina.

Variants

 * HH-60J: Medium range recovery helicopter. 42 units delivered to the USCG between 1990 and 1996.
 * MH-60T: Medium range recovery helicopter. 39 surviving HH-60J airframes received upgraded avionics and operational capabilities, including armaments, from 2007 to 2014. Six SH-60Fs have also been converted to MH-60T specifications. 45 active aircraft as of March 2024. Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) began in 2017 to provide 12,000 to 20,000 hours of available service life to each aircraft. In 2023, USCG received approval to transition to an all MH-60T rotary fleet, and grow fleet to 127 aircraft.

Operators

 * United States Coast Guard 45 MH-60s in service.
 * CGAS Astoria
 * CGAS Cape Cod
 * CGAS Clearwater
 * CGAS Elizabeth City
 * CGAS Kodiak, Alaska
 * CGAS New Orleans
 * CGAS San Diego
 * CGAS Sitka
 * CGAS Traverse City
 * CGAS Borinquen
 * Coast Guard Aviation Training Center
 * Coast Guard Aviation Training Center

Accidents
As of July 2010, three Jayhawks have been involved in crashes, including two fatal crashes. Four Coast Guardsmen were hospitalized after a crash on 13 November 2023 during a search and rescue mission near Read Island, Alaska.

Specifications (HH-60J)

 * Most data is for HH-60J with data for MH-60T noted below.

title: Sikorsky MH-60 Jayhawk


text: Category:Economy of the Philippines

title: Category:Economy of the Philippines


text:
KWNR

KWNR (95.5 FM "95.5 The Bull") is a commercial radio station licensed to Henderson, Nevada, and broadcasting to the Las Vegas Valley. KWNR airs a country music radio format and is owned by iHeartMedia, Inc. The radio studios and offices are on Freemont Street in Las Vegas, a mile west of the Strip. On weekdays, KWNR carries two nationally syndicated country music programs, "The Bobby Bones Show" in morning drive time and "After Midnite with Granger Smith" heard overnight.

KWNR has an effective radiated power (ERP) of 100,000 watts, currently the maximum for FM stations. The transmitter is on Black Mountain in Henderson. KWNR broadcasts using HD Radio technology. The HD-2 digital subchannel plays classic country music. The HD-3 subchannel carries a Regional Mexican format known as "La Campensina 96.7" which feeds FM translator K244EX at 96.7 MHz.

History
The station first signed on the air on July 18, 1972. It was a non-commercial, non-profit Christian radio station known as KILA. When KILA moved to another frequency in 1985, the short-lived KYYX began. It was a country station designed to compete with country music leader KFMS (101.9 FM). KYYX floundered after two years: in 1987, 95.5 switched to hot adult contemporary KLSQ (Q95).

In 1989, the station switched its call sign to KWNR and was known as "Winner 95.5". "Winner 95.5" lasted about a year before switching to "New Country 95.5" in September 1990. In 2004, "New Country" was dropped and the station was known as 95.5 KWNR. The "New Country" label came back in the summer of 2006. Streaming began November 17, 2005.

On September 20, 2013, KWNR rebranded as "95.5 The Bull".

title: KWNR


text:
Least grebe

The least grebe (Tachybaptus dominicus), an aquatic bird, is the smallest member of the grebe family. It occurs in the New World from the southwestern United States and Mexico to Argentina, and also on Trinidad and Tobago, the Bahamas and the Greater Antilles.

Description
The least grebe ranges in length from 21 – (depending on the subspecies) and in weight from 112 –. Weights are variable based on region and subspecies, being smaller in Panama, where males weighed a mean of 129 g against the females 116 g and larger in the West Indies, where the sexes weigh a mean of 161 g and 133 g, respectively. In Texas, size is intermediate at 139 g and 122 g. Even in the largest races, the least grebe is still smaller and lighter than any other grebe species. Like all grebes, its legs are set far back on its body and it cannot walk well, though it is an excellent swimmer and diver. Small and plump, with a fairly short, sharp-pointed beak and bright yellow eyes, it typically appears quite dark all over.

The breeding adult is brownish grey above with a darker blackish crown and throat. It has a brownish chest and pale underparts. It shows a white wing patch in flight. Non-breeding birds are paler with a whitish throat, and immatures are paler and greyer than adults. Unlike all other members of its genus, it lacks any chestnut coloring on its neck.

Taxonomy
There are five recognized subspecies of least grebe, separated principally by size and color.
 * T. d. brachypterus – (Chapman, 1899) : is found from southern Texas and Mexico south to Panama.
 * T. d. bangsi – (van Rossem & Hachisuka, 1937) : is restricted to southern Baja California, Mexico. It is the smallest and palest of the subspecies.
 * T. d. dominicus – (Linnaeus, 1766) : nominate, is found in the northern Caribbean, including the Bahamas, Greater Antilles, Virgin Islands and southern Florida.
 * T. d. brachyrhynchus or T. d. speciosus – (Chapman, 1899) : is found in South America, from Colombia, Venezuela, Trinidad and Tobago south to northern Argentina and southern Brazil.
 * T. d. eisenmanni – Storer & Getty, 1985 : is restricted to the lowlands of western Ecuador. This subspecies is not recognized by all authorities.

Its genus name, Tachybaptus, is a combination of two Greek words—takhus meaning fast and baptos meaning diving, or sinking under. The specific name dominicus refers to the Caribbean island of Hispaniola, which was formerly known as Santo Domingo. As its English name suggests, the least grebe is overall the smallest member of the grebe family. It is the only member of its genus found in the New World; the four other members of the genus Tachybaptus reside in the Old World and Australasia.

Habitat and range
Least grebes are found in a wide variety of wetland habitats, including freshwater ponds, lakes, and marshes, slow-flowing streams and rivers, roadside ditches, and mangrove swamps. In general, they prefer bodies of water with significant amounts of vegetative cover, particularly along the edges; they will even use wetlands which are almost completely overgrown. They may choose small, temporary bodies of water to breed, in an effort to avoid predation of their chicks by large fish.

Behavior
For much of the year, least grebes are found singly or in pairs; however, when not breeding, they sometimes gather in flocks of 20 or more.

Diet
The least grebe eats a variety of aquatic life, including small fish, crustaceans, frogs and aquatic insects. Like all grebes, it pursues much of its prey under water. During active feeding bouts, it spends an average of 12.5 seconds beneath the surface on each dive, with surface pauses ranging from 2–24 seconds.

Breeding
Least grebes breed throughout the year. Those in the tropics tend to breed during the rainy season, while active nests have been found in every month of the year in Texas. Each pair builds a compact floating nest of vegetation—typically a variety of aquatic weeds—which is anchored to rooted plants in still open water as deep as 1.5 m. The female lays three to six white eggs, though the damp nest material soon stains them with brown. Both adults incubate the eggs, which hatch after 21 days. The striped young are sometimes carried on the adult's back.

Voice
The breeding call has been likened to a horse whinnying.

Threats
The least grebe, while a species of least concern, experiences a number of predators, particularly early in life. Large fish species and turtles are reported to take young grebes, and bird-eating raptors, including the bat falcon and the golden eagle, have been observed taking adult birds.

title: Least grebe


text: User talk:84.99.20.237

title: User talk:84.99.20.237


text:
Lockhart–Martinelli parameter

The Lockhart–Martinelli parameter ($$\chi$$) is a dimensionless number used in internal two-phase flow calculations. It expresses the liquid fraction of a flowing fluid. Its main application is in two-phase pressure drop and boiling/condensing heat transfer calculations.

It is defined as:

\chi = \frac{m_\ell}{m_g} \sqrt{\frac{\rho_g}{\rho_\ell}}, $$

where

 * $$m_\ell$$ is the liquid phase mass flowrate;
 * $$m_g$$ is the gas phase mass flowrate;
 * $$\rho_g$$ is the gas density;
 * $$\rho_\ell$$ is the liquid density.

title: Lockhart–Martinelli parameter


text:
Ian McMillan (poet)

Ian McMillan (born 21 January 1956) is an English poet, journalist, playwright, and broadcaster. He is known for his strong and distinctive Yorkshire accent and his incisive, friendly interview style on programmes such as BBC Radio 3's The Verb. He lives in Darfield, the village of his birth.

Background
McMillan was born in Darfield, South Yorkshire, son of John McMillan, a naval officer, and Olive Wood, a shop clerk. McMillan married on 21 July 1979. His son Andrew McMillan is a poet who won the Guardian First Book Award 2015 for his debut poetry book Physical.

McMillan attended Low Valley Junior School and Wath Grammar School, later graduating in Modern Studies from North Staffordshire Polytechnic in 1978. He started performing on the live poetry circuit in the 1970s. He has had several volumes of his own poetry published, for both adults and children. In his writing and broadcasting he has promoted the wider appreciation of poetry.

In addition he has had journalism published in the magazines Q and Mojo, and writes a weekly column in his home town's local newspaper, The Barnsley Chronicle. He is styled "poet in residence" to his hometown football club Barnsley F.C. His play Sister Josephine Kicks the Habit, based on the work of fellow Yorkshireman Jake Thackray, premiered in 2005. In June 2010 McMillan was appointed poet-in-residence at the English National Opera.

McMillan wrote the libretto for The Arsonists, the world's first opera written in a South Yorkshire dialect, which received its premiere on 18 November 2017.

TV and radio
McMillan was the host of BBC Radio 4's literary quiz Booked!, broadcast between 1995 and 2000.

McMillan hosts the weekly show The Verb and Proms variation Adverb on BBC Radio 3, "dedicated to investigating spoken words around the globe". He has been described in the BBC's publication Radio Times as the "22nd Most Powerful Person in Radio". He is also a regular roving contributor to Radio 4's Today Programme where he was at one stage dubbed as the programme's "Election Laureate". He co-wrote the Radio 4 comedy series The Blackburn Files (1989–1993) and Street and Lane with Dave Sheasby which first aired 2005–2007 and has since been repeated. During January 2007, he presented a BBC Radio 3 series on writing, Ian McMillan's Writing Lab, in which he talked to a range of authors which included Julian Barnes, Mark Ravenhill, Howard Jacobson and Michael Rosen. He has also been a panellist on BBC Radio 4's long-running game show Just A Minute.

In November 2010, McMillan was the castaway on the BBC Radio 4 show Desert Island Discs hosted by Kirsty Young. His choice of music included John Cage's silent piece "4′33″" and Andy Stewart singing "Donald Where's Your Troosers?".

He is a frequent guest on The Review Show, The Mark Radcliffe Show, the Today programme, You and Yours, The Culture Show, Never Mind the Full Stops and Have I Got News for You. He has narrated two series of The Yorkshire Dales and the Lakes on More4 (Series 3 starts on 27 May 2019), and also narrated The Museum on BBC 2 in 2007. He has also been employed to provide voice-overs in advertisements for a laundry detergent and a branded food product.

Poetry competitions
McMillan is a regular judge of poetry competitions. In December 2006, McMillan judged the "Central Trains Poetry Competition" and the winners, from the Royal Grammar School Worcester, were awarded a signed copy of his poem "Take me on a Christmas Trip on Central Trains" at Birmingham Snow Hill station. He was also a judge in the Foyle Young Poets Awards 2008, and went as a teacher with the winners for a week to The Hurst, an Arvon centre in Shropshire, as part of their prize. He judged the 2009 Cardiff International Poetry Competition for the award ceremony in June.

In 2005, as "Poet Laureate" for the "Three Cities" (the "Three Cities" in this case being Nottingham, Leicester and Derby), he was involved in the "Three Cities Create and Connect scheme", which included a regional writing competition. The project resulted in a now-scarce publication, A Tale of 3 Cities : New Writing from Derby, Leicester and Nottingham. McMillan contributed a foreword and two original pieces, "Here.Now.Then" and "The Laureate Reflects" as well as co-authoring (with six regional writers) "Three Cities Chain Poem".

McMillan was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature in 2022.

Yorkshire dialect work
In 2007 McMillan published a book named Collins Chelp and Chunter: a Guide to the Tyke Tongue. This was a compilation of words that are used in the Yorkshire dialect as well as a few pieces of Yorkshire humour and illustrations. In 2019 the book received a negative review in the Transactions of the Yorkshire Dialect Society, which noted that the work had an inconsistent orthography, assigned words to very specific locations when they were spread over wider areas and did not take account of the historical development of the dialect.

In celebration of the UK's 2012 National Pie Week, McMillan wrote a 'piem' devoted to the creations of the 'pie village' of Denby Dale, which has produced several world record breaking pies over the last 250 years.

Books
1980
 * Batteries Not Included: 36 Poems
 * The Changing Problem

1982
 * An Anthology from Versewagon (with John Turner and Martyn Wiley)

1983
 * Now it Can be Told

1984
 * How the Hornpipe Failed and Other Poems

1985
 * Six: The Versewagon Poetry Manual

1986
 * Tall in the Saddle

1987
 * Selected Poems

1988
 * More Poems Please, Waiter, and Quickly!
 * Overstone  (with David Harmer and Martyn Wiley)
 * Unselected Poems

1990
 * Against the Grain

1991
 * A Chin?: Poems

1993
 * Radio 5 Poems
 * Yakety-Yakety-Yakety-Yak! : Poems (with Martyn Wiley)

1994
 * Breathless
 * Dad, the Donkey's on Fire

1996
 * Primary Colours

1998
 * Elephant Dreams (with Paul Cookson and David Harmer)
 * I Found This Shirt: Poems and Prose from the Centre

1999
 * Just Like Watching Brazil

2000
 * Perfect Catch

2001
 * The Very Best of Ian McMillan

2002
 * The Invisible Villain

2005
 * A Tale of Three Cities (with Les Baynton, David Duncombe and others)

2006
 * Ideas Have Legs: Ian McMillan vs Andy Martin

2007
 * Chelp and Chunter: How to Talk Tyke (illustrated by Alex Collier)

2008
 * Talking Myself Home: My Life in Verses

Discography (with The Ian McMillan Orchestra)

 * Sharp Stories, Taith Records, 2007
 * Homing In, Taith Records, 2011

title: Ian McMillan (poet)


text: User talk:71.106.118.3

title: User talk:71.106.118.3


text:
Template talk:Oasis

I was looking at this, and wondering about having The Masterplan listed as an album. It is not an album in the normal sense, as it is a collection of B-sides. In my mind, this raises questions about whether it should be listed alongside the 6 studio albums, especially when other releases like Familiar to Millions are not. What do other people think? --Apyule 06:38, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I just checked oasisinet, and they list both FTM and Masterplan as albums, so I think that we should too. --Apyule 06:27, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have changed this to have more catagories, after this edit by Painbearer. I'm pretty ambivalent about it, but... --Apyule 30 June 2005 07:25 (UTC)

Inclusion of "minor" members
There's an issue as to whether members such as Scott McLeod and Jay Darlington should be included in this template. To fill anyone in who's interested:

Scott McLeod performed on tour with Oasis for a month or so while McGuigan was on a brief hiatus and was filmed with the band in the Wonderwall video.

Jay Darlington has performed on no fewer than 3 world tours with Oasis as keyboardist, and was also involved in the Indianapolis car accident that resulted in the cancellation of 3 shows in August 2002.

I believe they each should be included in some capaticy in the template, at the very least under "related articles". Its incorrect to state that the template is just for "official" members, as Starkey isn't an "official" member yet even, and has performed fewer shows than Darlington.Castlecraver 19:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Yet, again, I thik Starkey's chances of becoming official bandmember are far brighter than Darlington's. I think you should do an additional list of every third session man. You can include also Johhny Marr, Paul Weller, probably even Death in Vegas. Steve White also was in the band while Alan was suffering from tendonitis. I think you should grow up a little bit and start thinking. Elan Morin Tedronai 12:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm the one trying to have an honest discussion on the topic... not so sure what you mean by needing to grow up.
 * You're correct about Starkey's likelihood of becoming an official member. Would it be more acceptable to you to just make a new page titled "musicians who have performed with Oasis," and make it all-inclusive so that we can just include the official and former official members in the template?
 * Oh, and don't forget Terry Kirkbride. ;-P Castlecraver 13:58, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The Singles!
Im Adding the all the singles to the box --Bobo6balde66 21:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Whatever
Shouldn't "Whatever" be listed as a single? It's not really an EP. Rocket000 21:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes.

And Stop the Clocks is a compilation cd, definitely not an EP. I'm changing this borderline vandalism. Rocket000 23:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops, wrong "Stop the Clocks", left that one, but moved "Whatever" under singles. Rocket000 23:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Singles –
Why have they been removed? Andre666 (talk) 20:43, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

They should be added —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.178.172 (talk) 01:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Live Demonstration
Regardless of its name, this isn't a live album, it was a demo tape. Maybe it should go under the 'Related Articles' section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.70.23 (talk) 15:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

the band is defunct
I have moved all members and former members to one plane, as the band have declared themselves no longer Oasis.

Iminrainbows (talk) 02:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * At least you can separate between the previous members and the ones left when they declared they're 'officially disbanded', if that's what you get from those sources. Thks. Christian Liberty (talk) 18:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Zak Starkey
Should Zak Starkey be include in the member section?

It's my opion he should. Though not part of the official Oasis lineup, being more or less a session musician technically, he was a fulltime member of the band from 2004 to 2008. In this period he couldn't sign with the band, cause he had other engagements. In this period he acted as a full band member, playing tours, appearing with the rest of the band on photos en videos and recording Don't Believe the Truth and Dig Out Your Soul. In 2008 he left Oasis for a life as a session musician.

Leaving Starkey out of the members box, would be strange, for a musician who played and recorded for five years with this band. Especially when the alternative is placing him with "related people" like producers and musical friends. An option would be to include a live personnel section, but that also doens't fully catch the role of Starkey in Oasis. Belsen (talk) 18:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

 * 1) Zak Starkey was not a member of Oasis. You don't see Darryl Jones listed as a member of The Rolling Stones, and he's been their bass player since 1993. They have a "collaborators" section. I think that's a nicer way of doing things. It wouldn't be hard. Rename "Related People" "Musical Collaborators" and put any non-members down there. Then move the few non-musical people from there down to related articles 2) How come it lists the band as Noel and Liam? Didn't Oasis make Gem and Andy partners in the band, junior partners? Plus, I believe policy on Wikipedia is to list the last known/active line-up of a band, not the legal posessors of the name - if that were the case Black Sabbath would be listed as Tony Iommi and Ozzy Osbourne, and that'd just be weird. (Chill (talk) 10:13, 7 April 2011 (UTC))
 * In both cases I think it's the best way to put it. Zak Starkey was more than a related musician or session musician. He acted as a band member, even though he never got up to the point of being an official member in the sense of being part of the Oasis company. If I cite from the Darryl Jones article: "In the manner of other tour and recording sidemen for the band, such as saxophonist Bobby Keys and keyboardist Chuck Leavell, Jones' stage movement and audience interaction is low-key and he generally wears understated apparel on stage." This is clearly different from Starkey's involvement in Oasis, who appeared with the band during press conferences, videos and recordings. About the names of Liam and Noel Gallagher at the top, and the other musicians below. Surely you can put Gem and Andy in the upper section, but should it be those two or Bonehead and Guigsy, who also spent years with the group. How about Tony McCarrol or Alan White... I think it's best to leave it to the Gallaghers in the upper box to leave all other participants equal. Belsen (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Oasis