text:
Talk:Tilaka

dood tilaka
wtf, i thought it was called a bindi, tilaka, never heard of it.

some passage
I'm very doubtful about the following passage - "In the ancient West similar marks were used by Mediterranean worshippers of Helios, worshipers of Eli/El/El_(god)-Yahu / Yahu Theos / Wasu Theos (Jews, see Book_of_Revelation 7:3, 9:4, 14:1, 22:4), Christians (seen from some frescos of Jesus and early saints), Pythagoreans and other Helios worshipers."

I've never heard of these "Yahu Theos" and "Wasu Theos" characters. Are they some relation to "Yahweh" and Jesus? What is the evidence for tilakas among these worshippers? What are these fresoes? What are tye passages from Revelations supposed to prove? It's not a history book. I hope the source of this 'knowledge' is not Stephen Knapp's website. User:Paul Barlow 11:28, 3 June, 2005 (UTC)

new additions
It seems to me that this page is not so much about the tilaka, as about some odd attempt to prove that Christians and others used the mark, and yet all the links to so-called examples of western/mid-eastern "tilakas" seem completely invisible to me. Yes, there's a kind of U shape on the forehead of the Christos Pantokrater image, but the obvious explanation of that is that it's a stylised portrayal of a furrowed brow. There is no evidence given here of any written or archaeological historical material supporting the the existence of such tilaka-like motifs. There's no reason why there shouldn't have been such symbolic marks used in ancient religions, but I don't see any evidence fot it here. User:Paul Barlow 13:28, 5 June, 2005 (UTC)

on new additions
Paul, I feel somehow out of place to teach here. Wiki is a great idea but its greatest advantage - democracy - may at times turn into its greatest disadvantage when self-appointed experts decide what should be published and which sources are respectable on the basis of their own limited experience of the subject. I see it as a pattern appearing on Wiki, not that I speak only about you.

But since you expressed doubts, tell me how much study of ancient history did you personally undergo? How many books on ancient cultures, archeology, etc. did you study? How many icons did you see? What about that book by Keel and Uehlinger? If you'd take time and effort, you'd find this sign all over ancient world, from Celts to Maoris of New Zealand. Sure, there is not much specific research but evidence is out there. Do you disqualify it just because it's not online and so you cannot see it?

Pantocrator images are several (not just that one I put a link to) and most of them have this sign (although this one is the best recognizable I could find online; if you give me your email, I can send you much better version of Daphne Pantocator). Surely it's not just a stylized brow since there is also that little triangle down and big circles above eyes continuing from the upper part of both lines. Same like on icons of early saints (I gave links to few examples). If you cannot see them from the scans, what can I do? I cannot take you by hand to museums. If you know anything about the Shroud research, you'd have heard about Paul Vignon and his 'Vignon marks'. These marks are puzzling to experts but they use them to validate authenticity of those icons (that they are not recents fakes). Ask some Shroud scholars for more.

I guess you have no idea of hindutva. But even if you think it a negative phenomenon, why to disqualify book photo scans posted on a 'hindutva' site? What if those same scans would be on a university site? But they are just scans of what is available in museums. Anyway, they are just _examples_ which I could find online, representing many others.

I don't want to go on and on. Please don't take this as an ad hominem attack. It may be hard for you to let people interested in the subject check all the resources themselves and continue their research from there. Isn't it a purpose of encyclopedia to provide leads to information? Why to censor the little available knowledge on this subject important in understanding the ancient history of spirituality?

Jan

 * Jan, the concept of 'self-appointed expert' applies to you just as much as to anyone else. This encyclopedia is supposed to be as authoritive as we can make it, and that excludes what is referred to as original research, which is essentially a euphemism for "idiosyncratic personal theory or fringe belief". I quote:

 * untested theories; data, statements, concepts and ideas that have not been published in a reputable publication; or any new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts or ideas that, in the words of Wikipedia's founder Jimbo Wales, would amount to a "novel narrative or historical interpretation".

 * I think your assertions, unless properly supported count as original research in this sense. Have you seen those images on Knapp's website? They are obviously not accurate photos of real objects. They come from a tatty old book, presumably from a Hindutva publisher (and yes, I have an idea of what Hindutva is!). He gives no proper sources. The pictures have obviously been manipulated. They bear no resemblance to any actual Greek, Roman, Egyptian etc images I have ever seen in any photographs or in museums. Knapp believes that the whole world was once Hindu. That is a very fringe belief, one that clearly comes under the exclusions indicated above. If you want to contact me or send me any images, my email is paul.barlow@unn.ac.uk Paul B 13:48 6 June, 2005 (UTC)

 * I can only find one source (elsewhere mirrored) for the reference to the mysterious Wasu Theos, and that's a Vaishnaivite website. There are no references elsewhere, and since we are to take this as a version of the name of an Egyptian deity, why is there a Greek word at the end? It is clearly not established knowledge Paul B 16:00 6 June, 2005 (UTC)

Paul,

If original research is equated with fringe belief then all researchers pursue beliefs. Original or not, there must be a proper methodology with peer reviews to make it a science, no?

Re scans on Knapp's site - unfortunately I have no access to the original pictures and the sources given to check. So I can't claim they are manipulated. I got an opinion from a knowledgeable source that they are not authentic. However, there are many other sources (frescos, etc.), only hard to find online. Few examples:

Pantocrator and few other frescos mentioned:

http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/sphysical.html

http://www.shroudstory.com/faq-jesus-in-art.htm

Byzantine frescoes and the Turin Shroud, Lennox Manton

http://space.tin.it/scienza/bachm/MANTON94.PDF

The Cappadocian frescoes and the Turin Shroud, Lennox Manton

http://space.tin.it/scienza/bachm/MANTON96.PDF

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bachm/MANTON96.PDF

Paul Vignon, "Le Saint Suaire de Turin devant la science, l'archologie, l'histoire, l'iconographie, la logique", Paris 1939.

Quoting next two pars in "Original research":

"Original research is research that produces primary sources or secondary sources. Primary sources present information or data, such as archeological artifacts; photographs; historical documents such as a diary, census, transcript of a public hearing, trial, or interview; tabulated results of surveys or questionnaires, records of laboratory assays or observations; records of field observations. Secondary sources present a generalization, analysis, synthesis, interpretation, or evaluation of information or data.

"Original research that produces primary sources is not allowed. However, research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and secondary sources is strongly encouraged. In fact, all articles on Wikipedia should be based on information collected from primary and secondary sources. This is called source-based research, and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia."

What I did was just "collecting and organizing information from existing primary and secondary sources" since I didn't:

- find these artifacts myself

- invented the term tilak

- came up with a theory

If I find an artifact, photograph it and put the photo online, it's original research and is not allowed. But If my friend _collects and organizes_ it and publishes it in Wiki, it is encouraged... Does it make sense or am I missing anything? Where is any peer review?

Hindutva as 'a fringe belief': in which sense? Marginal? There are many people supporting it. Radical? Many of its ideas are radical but not all are necessary wrong.

The British worked for a social, political and economical domination by proving the superiority of Western culture. They had to make Vedic culture look later than and possibly derived from Middle Eastern cultures. Their new discipline of indology discredited not only the Vedas but the genealogies of the Puranas establishing the timeline. They made Buddha a historical anchor and thus the kings before Buddha were left without any historical basis. There was nothing scientific about that.

Hindutva is a way to restore things to pre-British stage. It is a paradigm. One cannot live without a paradigm. One person may have a Western modern paradigm, other may have a Hindutva paradigm. Then they may accuse each other of being fringe.

Here are some examples of Western science's attitude to unknown phenomena: www.alternativescience.com On the other hand, these cases present no threat to 'Hindutva science' which recognizes subtle phenomena.

Wasu Theos: Actually the Egyptian version is 'WS' as Egyptians used no vowels. (Just like Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHVH can have various readings.) It refers to Theban worship of this deity. There was sustained interaction between so-called Indo-Europeans, the Semites and the North Africans. The ancient Egyptian cities, like their presiding deities, had Egyptian, Greek and Semitic by-names.

Here is one online reference:

http://www.historel.net/imhotep/imhoeng02.htm

Greek inscriptions in Egypt - another possible source:

http://132.236.125.30/content.html#anchor7049672

Btw, there is no agreement about etymology of 'theos' (generally translated as God). Here is one differing opinion:

"Theos is not etymologically related to Zeus (nor to Latin deus 'god'). The Indo-European root of theos is most probably *dhes-. The same root becomes fes- in Latin and appears there in words like festus 'festival', 'solemn', and feriae (from *fesiae) 'holiday'. The original meaning of the root seems to have been approximately 'holy'. As far as I know, the word theos is never used as a proper noun, neither for a god nor for a human" [Prof. Jerker Blomqvist].

http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/QuestionsAnswers.html

I'm sending you the bigger Dafni Pantocrator by mail.

Jan

links
Gaurangaji, if you look closer, the links you've removed show tilaks on icons, some better than others. So they are not off topic and should be back. Re the Helios link: the horses on one mosaic actually have disc-like tilaks of Helios! 8) -- Jan/VEDA

 * These are the three links I removed below - I've looked through them but any direct link to tilak in this connection seems doubtful? Is there any relevant research by anyone to back this up - like an article on 'tilak in Christianity?' - that would make a great link. Ys, Gouranga(UK) 18:13, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Helios in the Synagogue: Did some ancient Jews worship the sun god?
 * Vatican Museums, Fabbrica di San Pietro image of St. Paul with tilak?
 * Monastery of the Holy Trinity in Sergiev Posad icon of Christ Pantocrator, 16th century

I removed all the "other cultures" links -- here's why
It's pure kookery. No one outside a small circle of "Vedic" scholars has seen or commented on tilaka outside India. Furthermore, the proponents don't make any allowance for the possibility of independent invention. For example -- and to use an example that could have been cited, and wasn't -- Roman Catholics mark the start of Lent by attending mass on Ash Wednesday and receiving a smudge of ashes on the forehead. Indian influence? No, the forehead is a great billboard.

If the proponents of this theory can produce any support other than "Vedic" scholars and original research, that is, proof that reliable sources and respectable scholars consider it a valid theory, we can include it. Zora 20:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, on those icons one can see tilaks, best on Dafni Pantokrator. See also 2-part Manton's document which proves that these are real signs found also on Turin Shroud. I'm not aware of any specific research but it should be prompted by these artifacts, imho.
 * Who's talking about independent invention? The thing is that these signs are common to most monotheistic traditions, in India and outside, without any trademark claims. And no, tilaka is _not_ a 'smudge of ashes', it's a carefully made design worn all the time, not just during some festivals. --Jan/VEDA

Tilak and bindi should be merged

 * Both of them has lot of common information and bindi should be redirected to tilak. Is it not? Mlpkr 19:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I think I suggested that once and Ragib, whom I greatly respect, had something wise to say against it. I don't remember what, but ... I wouldn't want to do anything without consulting him. Zora 20:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * As I understand it, Bindi refers only to the dot or circular mark, worn mostly to show if a lady is married - whereas Tilak refers to a wide range of markings worn largely with some religious or spiritual significance in mind? Looking on the web I found these definitions:

 * Bindi
 * Bindi
 * Tilak (Google defs)

 * If that's the case bindi could become a sub-section of tilak, or the two could be left seperate? Regards, Gouranga(UK) 21:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Not really. Madhuri Dixit pictire you deleted had non circulr bindis. The picture we have in bindi article Image:ModernBindi.JPG also have non circulr bindis. Any thing sticker is called bindi, the thing that is applied with paint or kumkum is called tilak or bindi. Men's tilak is never called bindi. South lanugaues telugu and tamil always mention tilak or pottu or bottu. I guess bindi is hindi word. Mlpkr 21:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Zora, I put my feedback for your question at [] on bindi page. Mlpkr 21:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * As a concensus could we say then that a bindi is something worn only by women, that is put on for social or decorative purposes; whereas tilak is worn by both men and women and is mark you make for religious or spiritual purposes? (as per other discussion) Ys, Gouranga(UK) 21:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Agree on that bindi is worn only by women and for decoration, disagree on that tilak is only for relegious purpose. It is even used after winning a election, a war or a game. That is called vir tilak. There is no bindi word in our place, only hindi speaking people say bindi. We call the one that women wear as tilak or bottu, and the one men wear as namam. Mlpkr 22:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The tilak has "more" religious significance than the bindi and is also used to welcome people- like raj tilak- putting a tilak on a king, or the vir/vijay tilak. So it marks "auspicious" occaisions and is used to anoint victors/leaders/prominent personalities, which has religious connotations.

Also please note there is no "vir bindi" nor "raj bindi". Apart from hindi speaking Bindi is used as a term for the women's forehead "dot" decoration even in the west now. Your region may use tilak or bottu, but that does not make it the widespread use of the word. You can mention in the article that your region has a seperate word. Haphar 11:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The problem is that both articles lead off with "bindi, not to be confused with tilaka", or "tilaka, not to be confused with bindi", indicating the two are entirely different concepts. The articles should be written in such a manner to indicate that, while there are very real and subtle differences, there is still substantial overlap in the concepts.  FellGleaming (talk) 19:23, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Tilak vs. Tilaka ?
The article is titled "Tilaka". The text states "(pronounced tilak)", yet the article never uses "tilaka", only "tilak". That would seem to imply that "tilak" is the phonetic spelling. This seems confusing, if trivial. Is there a logical explanation? Or did I miss something?66.82.9.88 03:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Tilak is the phonetic spelling you are quite correct. It is usually written as tilaka when translated - having a silent a - similar to many other words of Sanskrit origin. I believe it is the way Sanskrit letters translate into English - the letter ka can mean both k and ka according to the context. For consistency it should really read as Tilaka throughout. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 16:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * indeed in sanskrutam the ending "a" or "am" is pronounced (so tilaka or tilakam) whereas in many north Indian languages, the ending is chopped off.the original word and the pan-indian one is tilakam or tilaka. tilak is a regional variant and should not be used.for example, "Swastika" is Swastika in sanskrutam and pan-Indian languages, but in Hindi and other north Indian languages it may be pronounced as "Swastik".  209.147.224.225 (talk) 00:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

 * The Sanskit word is tilaka (तिलक) and in Sanskrit the final a is pronounced. Hindi speakers often omit pronouncing the final a so the cases where it is spelled tilak were probably entered by Hindi speakers. Buddhipriya 16:31, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

File:Tikaonhead.JPG may be deleted
I have tagged File:Tikaonhead.JPG, which is in use in this article for deletion because it does not have a copyright tag. If a copyright tag is not added within seven days the image will be deleted. -- Chris  07:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Article Mishmash
Recent edits have made the article a mess. We have one section claiming there are 4 types of Tilaks, another claiming there are six 'varieties', then a third section claiming there are 19 types. This material is overlong, confusing, self-contradictory and in some cases, poorly sourced. Anyone want to contribute here before I go in with a hatchet? Fell Gleaming talk 21:48, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Tilaka, Tripunda and Urdhva Punda
Welcome to wikipedia. Please see wikipedia's content policies and guidelines, particularly verifiability policies. According to reliable sources, Tilaka is both a welcoming tradition and Tripundra/Urdhva Pundra. Please do not remove sources and sourced content. I have moved your image into gallery, but retained the earlier image as it better and shows the Tilaka tray and welcoming context. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 11:49, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:07, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * A Krishna Devotee and an ISKCON member.jpg
 * Arjun dev tilak ceremony.png
 * Guru Nanak With Bhai Bala and Bhai Mardana.jpg
 * Nargis Dutt.jpg
 * Teg bahadur lahore museum.png

"Cow dung" used for Tilaka
Hello @Yudransh

I've started this discussion to address your concern about using "cow dung" as one of the materials used for tilaka. Here are four sources that I found to support this:

 * 1) https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Handbook_of_Tibetan_Buddhist_Symbols/-3804Ud9-4IC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cow+dung+used+as+tilaka&pg=PA25&printsec=frontcover - page 25
 * 2) https://www.google.com/books/edition/Sacred_Hindu_Symbols/NQ0XQHEkuIcC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cow+dung+used+as+tilaka&pg=PA59&printsec=frontcover - page 59
 * 3) https://www.google.com/books/edition/Hinduism/_19v5dv2C78C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cow+dung+used+for+vibhuti&pg=PA109&printsec=frontcover - page 109
 * 4) https://www.google.com/books/edition/Atlas_of_Dermatoses_in_Pigmented_Skin/sckQEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cow+dung+used+for+vibhuti&pg=PA797&printsec=frontcover - page 797

So all of these sources state that "burnt" cow dung or the "ash" of cow dung is used as bhasma or vibhuti in Shaivite traditions. I hope this information is satisfactory and we can come to an agreement in regards to this. Perhaps better wording? Chilicave (talk) 02:13, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Oh, thanks for clarifying. The word "Cow dung" confused me as i didn't saw any single person wearing a cow dung on his forehead. Please re-add it with a better wording like ash of cow dung. Yudransh (talk) 03:37, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course! I do see you POV though. It is a good learning lesson that a slight change in word choice can skew the meaning of something. Chilicave (talk) 20:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Assessment - B-Class article

 * B-class review

JoeNMLC (talk) 14:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) It is suitably referenced, with in-line citation:
 * 2) It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious holes:
 * 3) It has a defined structure:
 * 4) It is reasonably well-written:
 * 5) It contains supporting materials where appropriate:
 * 6) It presents its content in an appropriately understandable way:
 * 7) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It contains supporting materials where appropriate:
 * 2) It presents its content in an appropriately understandable way:
 * 3) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

title: Talk:Tilaka


text:
Free Patriotic Movement

The Free Patriotic Movement (التيار الوطني الحر, ) is a Lebanese political party. Founded by Michel Aoun in 1994, the party is currently led by Aoun's son-in-law Gebran Bassil since 2015.

Ideology
The Free Patriotic movement follows Lebanese nationalism and follows the agenda of Gen. Michel Aoun.

FPM is anti-refugee, pro-civil state, pro expanded administrative decentralization.

In 2013, FPM supported the "Orthodox Law" which is an electoral law that would enable every religious sect to elect its own members of parliament by a system of proportional representation where the country of Lebanon itself would be seen as one district.

Background
For many years, while Michel Aoun was and exiled in Paris and on 14 July 1994, he established the Free Patriotic Movement in what he called "The National Conference". He returned to Lebanon on 7 May 2005 after the Cedar Revolution forced the withdrawal of the Syrian forces, and then contested the legislative elections held in late May in early June although it placed him on the head of the largest Christian group of deputies.

2006
In 2006, the FPM signed a memorandum of understanding with Hezbollah organizing their relation and discussing Hezbollah's disarmament, given some conditions. The second and third conditions for disarmament were the return of Lebanese prisoners from Israeli jails and the elaboration of a defense strategy to protect Lebanon from the Israeli threat. The agreement also discussed the importance of having normal diplomatic relations with Syria and the request for information about the Lebanese political prisoners in Syria and the return of all political prisoners and diaspora in Israel.

On 1 December 2006, Free Patriotic Movement leader Michel Aoun declared to a crowd of protesters that the current government of Lebanon was unconstitutional, claiming that the government had "made corruption a daily affair" and called for the resignation of the government. Hundred of thousands of supporters of this party, Amal Movement, and Hezbollah, according to the Internal Security Forces (ISF), gathered at Downtown Beirut trying to force Fouad Siniora to resign.

2007–2010
On 11 July 2008, FPM members, Issam Abu Jamra as deputy-prime minister, Gebran Bassil as minister of telecommunications, and Mario Aoun as minister of social affairs were appointed to the cabinet. It was the Movement's first participation in the Lebanese Government.

Despite the strong media and political war against the Free Patriotic Movement, the results of the 2009 Elections granted the FPM 27 parliamentary seats. The FPM's bloc is the second largest in the Lebanese parliament. The FPM gained 7 more seats than in the 2005 elections, earning at least triple the number of deputies of any other Christian-based bloc in the parliament due to geographical distribution. The total seats won by the March 8 alliance were 57 out of 128, which led to a defeat for the FPM.

In November 2009, the Free Patriotic Movement nominated five ministers to join the first government headed by Saad Hariri. The five ministers included:

 * Gebran Bassil as Minister of Energy and Water
 * Charbel Nahas as Minister of Telecommunications
 * Youssef Saade as Minister of State
 * Abraham Dadayan as Minister of Industry
 * Fadi Abboud as Minister of Tourism

2010s
In June 2011, the Change and Reform bloc led by Aoun nominated eleven ministers to join the second government headed by Najib Mikati, gaining more than double the share they had in the former government. The eleven ministers were:

Ministers with portfolios:
 * Shakib Qortbawi as Minister of Justice
 * Fayez Ghosn as Minister of Defense
 * Gebran Bassil as Minister of Energy
 * Nicolas Sehnaoui as Minister of Telecommunications
 * Vrej Sabounjian as Minister of Industry
 * Fadi Aboud as Minister of Tourism
 * Charbel Nahas as Minister of Labour ( as pro-FPM)
 * Gaby Layoun as Minister of Culture
 * Marwan Charbel as Minister of Interior and Municipalities (merge power between Aoun and Michel Suleiman)

Ministers without portfolios:
 * Salim Karam
 * Panos Manjian

2014 government formation
In February 2014, the Change and Reform bloc led by Michel Aoun nominated four ministers to join the national unity government headed by Prime Minister Tammam Salam. The Free Patriotic Movement had two ministers:

 * Gebran Bassil as Minister of Foreign and Expatriates (Free Patriotic Movement)
 * Elias Bou Saab as Minister of Education (Free Patriotic Movement)
 * Arthur Nazarian as Minister of Energy (Tashnag Party)
 * Ronnie Arayji as Minister of Culture (Marada Movement)

Election of Michel Aoun as Lebanese President
Lebanese Forces (LF) leader Samir Geagea and Free Patriotic Movement (FPM) Founder MP Michel Aoun turned a historic page in intra-Christian relations when the former March 14 presidential nominee officially endorsed on Monday Aoun's candidacy for the presidency. "I announce after long consideration, discussions and deliberations between members of the executive body of the Lebanese Forces, our endorsement of the candidacy of [former] General Michel Aoun for the presidency," Geagea said in joint news conference with his March 8 rival. Speaking from the LF's headquarters in Maarab where he had met with Aoun shortly before the news conference, Geagea read a 10-point understanding that summarized the key points of the Declaration of Intent struck between the LF and FPM in June.

The commitment to the implementation of the Taif Accord, the need to stop the flow of arms and militants across the Lebanese-Syrian border in both directions, the ratification of a new electoral law and compliance with international resolutions were among the key points agreed upon between the LF and FPM, Geagea said. As he read the key points of his understanding with Aoun, Geagea paused for a moment to tell joke. With humor, the LF leader asked Aoun to urge his son-in-law Foreign Minister Gebran Bassil to act in accordance with the sixth point of their agreement. Geagea was referring to his understanding with the Former general over "the need to adopt an independent foreign policy that guarantees Lebanon's interests and complies with international law." For his part, Aoun thanked Geagea for his support and said he would extend his hands to all political parties. Geagea's official endorsement of Aoun's nomination would provide a significant boost for the former general's presidential bid but it remains unclear how the Future Movement would react to this initiative.

Before his arrival to the LF's headquarters, Aoun met with Maronite Patriarch BecharaRai, who has repeatedly voiced his support for initiatives aimed at breaking the presidential deadlock. "We came to inform the patriarch of the agreement," Aoun said from the seat of the Maronite church. Earlier in the day, Rai had met with former Prime Minister and head of the Future Movement parliamentary bloc Fouad Siniora. Following his meeting with the patriarch, Siniora stressed the need to elect a president who enjoys the support of all Lebanese factions. "We have to work hard to elect a person who can unite all Lebanese people from all political affiliations and promote coexistence among them," said Siniora.

Geagea's endorsement of Aoun is the first time the country's two leading Christian parties have come together on such a pivotal issue after decades of animosity. Geagea, the former March 14 presidential candidate, was caught by surprise when his ally Future Movement leader and former Prime Minister Saad Hariri reportedly nominated Marada Movement Chief Suleiman Franjieh for the presidency. Geagea has staunchly opposed the deal, which stirred up controversy both within the March 8 and 14 camps. Aoun, on the other hand, had shown no signs of giving up his presidential ambitions in favor of Franjieh, a longtime ally of Hezbollah and a member of Aoun's reform and Change parliamentary bloc.

For weeks Hezbollah remained silent over Hariri's proposed settlement, as Franjieh sought to win the support of its allies. Hezbollah finally broke its media silence Dec. 29, 2015, and reaffirmed its support for Aoun's presidential bid.

In the first official statement since Hariri's initiative emerged, Hezbollah's Politburo Chief Sayyed Ibrahim Amin al-Sayyed announced from the seat of the Maronite patriarchate that his party is committed to supporting the presidential bid of its ally Aoun. Aoun and Geagea kicked off talks a year ago. The talks culminated in a Declaration of Intent that paved the way for a surprise visit by Geagea to Aoun's residence in Rabieh in June. The Declaration of Intent has since brought Aoun and Geagea closer together, putting an end to the bitter rivalry between the Christian leaders who fought a devastating war in 1990.

On 31 October 2016, General Michel Aoun was elected by the Lebanese parliament as Lebanon's president, ending a 29-month presidential vacuum.

On 30 October 2022, President Michel Aoun left office a day earlier than when his six-year mandate ended.

Bassil sanctions
in November 6, 2020, the US Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) sanctioned Gebran Bassil, head of the Free Patriotic Movement, member of the Lebanese Parliament, and son-in-law of Lebanese President Michel Aoun. The penalties are due to its role in corruption in Lebanon according to Magnitsky's Global Human Rights Accountability Law. US Secretary of State Stephen T. Munchen: "Systematic corruption in the Lebanese political system represented by Bassil has helped undermine the foundations of an effective government that serves the Lebanese people. This designation also demonstrates that the United States supports the Lebanese people in their continuous calls for reform and accountability."

FPM internal elections
FPM internal elections to elect the party Leader take place every 4 years since 2015.

2015
On 17 August 2015, Minister Gebran Bassil was chosen by General Michel Aoun as the new leader for the Free Patriotic Movement. No elections were done because it could have possibly led to fracturing the party, and so Alain Aoun stepped down from candidacy in order for Bassil to be assigned as the new leader. On February 28, the party elected his political bureau members:
 * Mireille Aoun
 * Naji Hayek
 * Jimmy Jabbour
 * Rindala Jabbour
 * Naaman Mrad
 * Ziad Najjar

2019
On 1 September 2019, Gebran Bassil was re-elected as FPM leader and May Khreich was elected as vice president.

2023
On 25 August 2023, Gebran Bassil retained FPM leadership by acclamation, Martine Najm Koutayli and Ghassan Khoury were elected vice-presidents for political and administrative affairs. Naji Hayek became vice-president for foreign affairs.

OTV
The Free Patriotic Movement launched its own broadcasting channel, Orange TV (OTV) on 20 July 2007 where currently the Aoun family directly owns 50%. It is nicknamed 'Orange TV' due to its orange logo, which has been linked with the FPM, whose logo is also orange. The party also opened their own radio station called Sawt Al Mada (English:Voice of Scope) on 1 June 2009. Former party member, Elias Bou Saab, has full ownership of the radio owning directly 24% of the shares and 75% through his holding Jets Holding SAL.

Tayyar.org
Tayyar.org is an online news platform established in 2001 to promote the agenda of its former leader and former President of Lebanon, General Michel Aoun.

FPM Forum
The Orange Room - FPM forum was hosted on Tayyar.org under the domain name forum.tayyar.org until October 2012.

On 5 October 2012, FPM forum was shut down due to a disagreement between the founder of the forum and FPM which caused Orange Room and FPM to part ways and move the forum to an independent host oroom.org that remained online until it was closed on 21 June 2022.

FPM Electronic Army
FPM Electronic Army (Arabic: الجيش الإلكتروني للتيار) also known as FEA is one of the biggest electronic armies in Lebanon with over 100k followers on Facebook, headed by Jay Lahoud their slogan is "An Army of PRINCIPLES can Penetrate where an ARMY of soldiers cannot", they have been sharing pro FPM articles under the domain "Siyese 101".

2005 elections and rise of the FPM
At the time of the 2005 elections, the FPM came up with a detailed political program which contained economic and political reform plans and gained the support of many Lebanese Christians. The FPM won 21 seats in the parliament, and formed the second biggest bloc in the Lebanese Parliament. Being the leading Christian bloc after the election, it joined the March 8 Alliance.

In 2008, Michel Murr left the change and reform bloc.

2009 elections
Despite the strong media and political war against the Free Patriotic Movement, the results of the 2009 Elections granted the FPM 27 parliamentary seats. The FPM's bloc is the second largest in the Lebanese parliament. The FPM gained 7 more seats than in the 2005 elections 3 of those seats belonged exclusively to the Marada Movement party, earning at least triple the number of deputies of any other Christian-based bloc in the parliament due to geographical distribution. The total seats won by the March 8 alliance were 57 out of 128, which led to a defeat for the FPM.

The 27 MP bloc named Change and Reform was formed by FPM (19), Marada (3), Tashnaq (2), LDP (2), Emile Rahme (1).

In 2013 Marada, Emile Rahme and LDP left the bloc which caused the bloc to shrink to 20 MP.

2018 elections
The electoral slogan of the party was 'A Strong [FPM] for a Strong Lebanon'. The party formed a number of local coalitions with a wide array alliance partners around the country. In North III FPM fielded the "Strong North" list, headed by Gebran Bassil, in alliance with the Independence Movement and the Future Movement. In Mount Lebanon I (Byblos–Kesrwan) FPM fielded the "Strong Lebanon" list led by Chamel Roukoz. In Mount Lebanon II (Metn) FPM fielded the "Strong Metn" list together with the SSNP and Tashnaq.

After the split between the Future Movement and the Lebanese Forces, a joint list for Beirut I of the Free Patriotic Movement, Tashnaq and the Hunchaks was conceived supported by the Future Movement. In Bekaa I FPM, Future, Tashnaq and independents fielded a joint list. In North I (Akkar) and South II (Saida-Jezzine) FPM formed electoral alliances with al-Jamaat al-Islamiyya. In North II FPM fielded a list in alliance with Kamal Kheir. Moreover, whilst FPM and the Amal-Hezbollah coalition parted ways nationally, joint lists were presented in Beirut II, Mount Lebanon III (Baabda), and Bekaa II (West Bekaa-Rachaya).

In Bekaa III (Baalbek-Hermel) FPM had hoped to form a list together with former speaker Hussein el-Husseini, but the project fell apart as el-Husseini withdrew from the electoral process. In the end, the Free Patriotic Movement candidates joined the list led by the former regional secretary of the Baath Party, Faiz Shukr.

In South III the Future Movement, the Free Patriotic Movement and the Lebanese Democratic Party supported a joint list called "The South is Worth It", with two FPM-supported independents.

Following the announcement of results, Gebran Bassil stated that FPM and its Strong Lebanon bloc would form the largest bloc in parliament (a role previously played by the Future Movement). Bassil stated that FPM would gather up to 30 MPs, including Talal Arslan and Tashnaqs.

The 29 MP bloc named Strong Lebanon was formed by FPM (19), Tashnaq (3), Moustafa Hussein (1), LDP (1), Chamel Roukoz (1), Neemat Frem (1), Elie Ferzli (1),Michel Daher (1), Michel Moawad (1).

At the beginning of the 17 October Revolution, Neemat Frem, Chamel Roukoz and Michel Moawad left the bloc.

After the 2020 Beirut explosion, Michel Daher left the bloc.

In April 2021, Elie Ferzli left the bloc.

On 1 March 2022, MP Hikmat Dib resigned from FPM causing the bloc to shrink to 23 MP.

2022 elections
Free Patriotic Movement lost seats in the 15 May 2022 elections. The Free Patriotic Movement, was no longer the biggest Christian party in the parliament after the election. The Lebanese Forces became the largest Christian party in Parliament.

The 2022 Strong Lebanon bloc was formed by FPM (17), Tashnaq (3) and Akkar MP Mohamad Yehya.

On 6 December 2022, Tashnaq kicked out MP Bouchikian which shrunk the Strong Lebanon bloc to 20.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Free Patriotic Movement


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JFFS2

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. JeremyA 03:41, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

JFFS2
Spam. Delete unless rewritten. - Mike Rosoft 11:30, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Rewritten. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 20:47, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment How is this spam? --khaosworks 12:27, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * How exactly is this not spam, or - more accurately - an advertisement and a promotional? - Mike Rosoft 12:42, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems like a legitimate file system to me, part of the Linux kernel, non-commercial, and appears to be widely used. I think I see what you mean by promotional, but this should be sent to the appropriate Cleanup crew. --khaosworks 13:00, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * It definitely wasn't a "promotion" (before I rewrote it). It was a copyvio of an information page on the subject written by techies for techies.  I write this kind of stuff all the time.  The purpose is to get someone else up to speed in a few sentences by giving him the essential information. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 20:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Could I ask editors please to use a little more discrimination when deciding whether list articles for deletion. Look in Deletion policy for a good, clear presentation of when VfD listing is and is not necessary. This article will never be deletable, it's about part of the Linux kernel which is in use in embedded devices, such as JPL's Mars Rover prototypes. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:16, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * KeepVorash 19:53, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It's copied from http://sources.redhat.com/, as it clearly said at the bottom of the page. Is redhat documentation public domain?  RickK 20:19, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. I've rewritten it. I'd like to remind my fellow editors that we all have the capacity to edit, should we choose to exercise it. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 20:47, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Why didn't you follow the proper procedure and rewrite it in the /Temp page so that we can get the copyvio out of the history? RickK 20:52, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit of a bugger like that. I fixed it. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:28, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. There seems to be plenty of information about JFFS that could be incorporated; there are respectable articles on other relatively obscure filesystems (see Comparison of filesystems for links) so there's no reason not to keep this one. Perhaps the article should be moved to JFFS and discuss both 1 and 2, though. -- Wapcaplet 23:50, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. Some notability. JamesBurns 03:53, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and continue expansion. ElBenevolente 03:58, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and continue to expand. Falphin 17:31, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess listing on VfD may not have been an appropriate way to fix this article, but it worked anyway. Keep - and I guess the discussion can be closed now. - Mike Rosoft 18:41, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JFFS2


text:
Big Belt Mountains

The Big Belt Mountains are a section of the Rocky Mountains in the U.S. state of Montana. Situated mainly in the Helena National Forest, the mountains are used for logging and recreation for the surrounding residents. Nearby are the cities of Helena, Townsend, and White Sulphur Springs, as well as Canyon Ferry Lake and the Missouri River. The highest point in the Big Belt Range is Mount Edith at 9504 ft, while the center of the range is 7385 ft.

The Big Belts lie primarily between the Missouri River drainage to the west and the Smith River drainage to the east. They are traversed by U.S. Highway 12 between Townsend in the Missouri drainage, and White Sulphur Springs in the upper Smith River drainage.

The gulches on the western slopes of the Big Belts were noted historically for rich gold placer strikes. The richest were the 1864 and 1865 placer gold strikes in Confederate Gulch, including Montana Bar, which was one of the most concentrated gold placer strikes ever made.

The range takes its name from the fact it is situated in a long belt-like arc. It stretches 75 mi, making it a mid-length subrange of the Rocky Mountains. To the east are the Little Belts and to the south, somewhat continuing this arc, is the Bridger Range.

The Belt Supergroup series of rocks, which are primarily Precambrian mudstones, were named after this mountain range and the adjacent Little Belt Mountains. A particularly well-known example of exposed Belt Group mudstones in alternating purplish-red or pale bluish-green layers in the Big Belt Mountains is in Wolf Creek Canyon along Interstate 15 between Helena and Great Falls. While these rocks were named after these ranges of western-central Montana, and are found in them, they are more exposed and better known in northwestern Montana, northern Idaho, and southeastern British Columbia, namely around Flathead Lake and Glacier National Park.

title: Big Belt Mountains


text:
Talk:Order of the Oak Crown

Untitled
Milesli, Huslocck and Milai, Thanks for the help! It is a concise article now. But it lacks an illustation...

Robert

source
The source is Van Zelm van Eldik, Ridderorden, Walburg pers 2003. Deel I blz. 486 e.v. In fact, Debretts peerage 1892 mentions a Lord Mayor of London as a Knight of the DUTCH order of the Oak Crown. 01:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Great coat of arms of Luxembourg.svg

title: Talk:Order of the Oak Crown


text:
User:Niz

People
Moustapha Akkad Dario Argento Mario Bava John Carpenter Stephen Chow Lorie Lucio Fulci Mark Kermode Herschell Gordon Lewis Takashi Miike Mikio Naruse Nevada-tan Sam Raimi Jonathan Ross Jerry Sadowitz

Genres
Giallo Horror film Mo lei tau Slasher film Splatter film Wuxia Zombie

Miscellaneous
Ain't It Cool News Ancient astronaut theory Final Girl Goblin Halloween Professional wrestling Red Room Spamalot Star Academy Unwinnable

title: User:Niz


text: Category:Exorcists

title: Category:Exorcists


text:
CodeWright

CodeWright is a Windows Programmers Editing System for software developers originally marketed by Premia Corp. (Beaverton, Oregon) and developed by Premia co-founders Eric Johnson and Don Kinzer, initially released in 1991. Premia was acquired in April 2000 by Starbase Corp. which was itself acquired in January 2003 by Borland.

CodeWright can be configured to work with other integrated development environment (IDE) systems, and synchronize with IDEs on the fly. Support for version control systems, compilers, error files is available. The editor can be extended via DLLs.

Overview
CodeWright was a crossover product at a critical time in the history of Windows. A popular editor for programmers at the time was Brief, a DOS-only product that was valuable due to its early-day EMACS-like features, especially split-screen and extensive macro capability.

Much as being Brief-like was an advantage in the DOS and early Windows era, by 2000 having "CodeWright editing features" was a marketing advantage. Since the makers of Brief were not moving to a Windows-based editor, that left it to other parties.

CodeWright was the first Windows editor that offered equivalent or better facilities as Brief, and would even emulate Brief. Additionally, CodeWright arrived at the same time as hardware graphics acceleration was arriving for Windows, removing at a stroke one of the biggest obstacles to the use of Windows, the slow redraw times that made quickly browsing through large code bases difficult or impossible in Windows.

Despite its wide initial popularity, CodeWright would be eclipsed rapidly by a growing number of IDEs available for Windows, which offered similar features as CodeWright, and typically were better integrated to the specific language at hand.

Features
CodeWright is project-based. Within projects one can define and load everything and also make use of Microsoft Visual Studio libraries (or .Net) and the Java Class Libraries. Features such as Syntax Highlighting and Code completion can be readily changed.

It also enables extending the IDE by writing CodeWright-specific API scripts, Visual Basic scripts and Perl scripts.

CodeWright Fusion
The company's Fusion product, introduced mid-1990s, existed as both 16- and 32-bit versions, in support of programmers doing C++ development.

Discontinuation
Borland is no longer renewing support contracts and is no longer engaging in new development.

CodeWright was acquired by Embarcadero Technologies as part CodeGear from Borland in 2008. CodeWright is currently sold by Embarcadero Technologies.

title: CodeWright


text:
Template talk:Countries and territories of the Mediterranean Sea

Superfluous
This is yet another footer template that is going to be called superfluous. I'm tempted to go about removing links to it myself. --Joy [shallot]   11:36, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I find nothing superfluous about this Template I started. If this template is really superfluous like you say, in that case the article History of the Mediterranean region is superfluous as well. Mediterranean history is very important, and that's why I created this template.--Gramaic 00:16, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Your conclusion is, well, false. There is no real reason why there need to be links through this kind of a template in order to somehow justify the existence of the aforementioned article. --Joy [shallot]   00:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * You may think that my conclusion is false, and continue to think that there's no real reason of having such a template, that's you opinion and I respect that. On the other hand, Joy, the Mediterranean countries (and region) connects the major continents of the old world (Europe, Asia and Africa), by both land and sea. So having such a template, is very important because it unites the continents of the "old world."--Gramaic 02:50, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * But Wikipedia is not here to unite continents of the old world. We're not on a mission here, we're writing an encyclopedia. The article about the Mediterranean can include a list of mediterranean countries, and there can be a category, but pushing it into a large box on every country article is excessive. --Joy [shallot]   9 July 2005 15:32 (UTC)

 * Yes I know Wikipedia isn't here to unite the continents of the old world, and I know we're not on mission to do anything. Just like you and Ronline have discussed that many of the countries listed don't have a Mediterranean climate, but this template is listing countries that are a part of the Mediterranean region, yes this template does have countries that don't border the Mediterranean sea yet have a Mediterranean climate such as Portugal, Bulgaria, and Romania, but again this templates goes by the countries that are located within the region of the Mediterranean. The Mediterranean region has such a rich history, that in order to travel from one continent or another in the old days, you have to go through the Mediterranean region and sea. I still don't understand why you oppose this template. Regards, --Gramaic | Talk 03:38, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Gramaic, I appreciate the fact that the Mediterranean region has such a rich and important history for the world. The reason why I oppose it is because it is quite irrelevant. And the fact that Portugal, Bulgaria and Romania have a Mediterranean climate is questionable! Ronline 05:59, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well Ronline, if you think there is something irrelevant with this template, then don't hesitate to edit it for the best. Regards, --Gramaic | Talk 06:14, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, I agree it has a rich history - go forth and write something about it and help those people get an overview. History of the Mediterranean region looks like a good start. Adding a template to the bottom of pages doesn't really help that cause. --Joy [shallot]   10:20, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I personally like the idea o the template, although I think there are way too many countries included that do not have a Mediterranean coastline, such as Slovenia, Crotia, Bosnia and Montenegro (they border the Adriatic, not the Mediterranean!). --Lanternix (talk) 10:48, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Polls
Should the following countries/territories be listed in this template? Please cast your votes;

Armenia
Support
 * 1) Gramaic

Oppose Comments
 * 1) Mustafaa 22:24, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Yuber(talk) 04:17, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * 3)  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  17:35, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) --Lanternix (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

West Bank
Support
 * 1) Gramaic
 * 2) Mustafaa 22:25, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC) - but list together with Gaza Strip.

Oppose
 * 1)  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  17:37, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) --Lanternix (talk) 10:44, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments
 * I'm willing to be persuaded, but I feel WB has more of a desert climate. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  17:37, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Gaza strip does, the West Bank does not. I think the current status of Palestinian territories is the best idea.

Romania
From Ronline: Firstly, I must say I find this box highly irrelevant. Of course we can group these countries together, but this is a very irrelevant grouping. If this gets accepted, then I could just make a grouping of "Countries that have flat tax systems" and put an infobox on every country page for that, or "Countries which are landlocked", etc, etc. What I mean to say is that a lot of these countries don't have much in common. My main issue is concerning Romania, as well as to an extent Bulgaria. None of these countries have been considered Mediterranean, historically. Romania has a small Black Sea coast, and while it's climate and flora/fauna in that part (called Dobruja) may be similar to Mediterranean, the majority of the country isn't like that. Transylvania and Moldavia, which together make up the majority of the country, are made up of mountains, forests and hills and have a cold, temperate climate with heavy snows. Wallachia, the southern part, is warmer but still not close to Mediterranean "status". Flora and fauna in Romania, except for Dobruja, is mostly Central European (though Romania is a Southeastern European country). Even Dobruja itself doesn't have a true "Mediterranean" climate. I'm also making a case for Bulgaria, which is also different to Mediterranean countries. I was just surprised to see these two, especially Romania on here, because I feel that it's wrong to place them in this category because geographically, climatically, etc they are out of place. So, to be democratic,

Oppose

 * Ronline 9 July 2005 10:44 (UTC)
 * --Lanternix (talk) 10:46, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Bosnia
Support

Oppose
 * 1) --Lanternix (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Slovenia
Support

Oppose
 * 1) --Lanternix (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Montenegro
Support

Oppose
 * 1) --Lanternix (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Croatia
Support

Oppose
 * 1) --Lanternix (talk) 10:45, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Other countries
I've just noticed Slovenia and France (!) is on here too. OK, I'm really having a hard time now seeing the relevance of this category. To not even go into politics and economics, but just staying in geography and climate, there are major differences between the climates of Slovenia, which is basically an Alpine country with a small Adriatic coastline, and Algeria, which is mostly arid. Not to mention France, which in the northern part is so different to Mediterannean climate. I understand France has a Mediterranean coastline, but that's not enough. I really don't see the point. I suppose if they had something in common in culture then you could argue something. I think we all agree that culturally, politically, economically, they're all very different. Then I suppose you could argue that "Well, they have a geographic similarity". But even that I think is very loose. I mean, yes, they can be grouped together in some sort, but it's such a weak grouping that it doesn't deserve its own template. As I said before, I could now make all these loose groupings (such as "Countries through which the Danube flows") and make templates for them all. Each country probably fits into 100 groupings based on various indicators. Are we going to have factboxes for them all? Surely not. All we need are relevant factboxes that define each country - things like "Countries in Europe", "Countries in the EU", etc. Things that relate to significant aspects of countries, not minor ones. In short, not things like these. Ronline 9 July 2005 10:44 (UTC)

 * Yes, there is little point to be seen. I told this to Gramaic already, but nobody backed me up. I'm happy to see finally it's not just me who thinks it's needless.
 * TFD? --Joy [shallot]   9 July 2005 15:33 (UTC)

I'm sorry but the mediterranean area is very far to be a loosy artificial grouping. If you had read the works of Fernand Braudel you would have probably a different opinion. The mediterranean area is not only a climatic definition (although climate has a important role over the mediterranean nations, it is not the only aspect. Geography and history have played a central role during centuries: even if nowadays the area is marqued by very different politic, economic and religious aspects on both sides; the mediterranean sea have long-time being a playground for economic and cultural exchanges... Long time before the southern European civilisation had relations with northern Europeans. This geographical/historic aspect had developped  specific relations between the main cultural groups that now sourround the mediterranean sea: romance/catholic in north-west; greco/orthodox in the nort-east; arabo/muslim in south.  Closed seas are often something that plays similar roles; the best exemple is the caribean: caribean nations can be very different language or culturally speaking but, sharing a common basin had created historic and cultural mutual influences that created a sort of common feeling, despite the strong ethnic or economic differences.

You also seemed to be shocked that France is a mediterranean country... That's the way it is, even if the mediterranean climate concerns only about a quarter of the land. Mediterranean climate concerns only some parts of Spain; it still is a mediterranean nation. Contrary to what you think, culturally speaking France share much more with its mediterranean neighbours than with any other of its neighbours: romance language(instead of Germanic), roman catholicism (instead of protestantism), wine-based culture (instead of beer culture). All these aspects are of mediterranean roots and share with the other latin countries of south-western Europe such as Spain, Italy or Portugal.

This grouping is as much significant than the concept of "Europe". Europe is climatically much diverse than the med is... And culturally speaking there is not much homogeneity between, say, Portugal and Finland... Even major neighbours like France and Germany doesn't share much culturally speaking. Said that both countries are reguarded as "European" and it does have a signification for them. The same way being part of the mediterrean has signification for most of the countries here: France for exemple, outside of being bordering the med and having its linguistic and religious cultural roots coming from there; It has for long-lasting relations with the Maghreb shores; emigration relation with them, but also with Portugal, Spain or Italy. France has been the first country to be involved in the inter-mediterranean political relations (conférence de Barcelone, Mediterranean union). International events such as the mediterranean games (equivalent of olympic games with mediterranean countries) have always been involving France as a major mediterranean nation.

The article is interesting, said that I think it should be included in the main article on the mediterranean. We could say that "mediterranean" has many meanings; each one could be formed by existing articles:

- purely oceanographic meaning about the sea itself - climatic meaning, concerning the climatic characteristics of the med sea. - geopolitical, historical and cultural; about the historic, geographical, political, cultural or social relations about the bordering countries (this article).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 (talk) 18:28, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Maybe you are catholic, but most of the French are not so longer. In the contrary of the Mediterranean countries where the faith remains strong. In fact, Southern Europe is a reality on a lot of things. France doesn't share a lot with Italy or Spain, while even if they were ennemies, there is a lot of common culture between the three hatred brothers UK-Germany-France. You want to find some cultural similarities by picking up some isolate examples, but they are anecdotal. By istory, climate, or culture...France is very few mediterranean, excepted tourism...

Even if a lot of french people don't believe in god (about 30/40%), the huge majority of them still are from Catholic cultural background at about 85% (while protestant background are less than 2%). Being a country deeply influenced by catholicism for centuries surely had a strong impact of cultural characteristics on french society - included the way secularism is thought (the famous "french "laicité" is considerably different from how secularism is considered in predominantly protestant-rooted nations. That said, the idea of countries like Italy or Spain being very religious is nowadays dated. The most religious nations in Europe are not especially in southern Europe: the Spaniards that declare to believe in god are only about 55% which is much less than Ireland (70%) or than Poland (80%), despite the fact that those countries are in northern Europe. Romania has much more people that declare to believe in god to any of the countries that are situated below it... More Germans consider to belive in god than french people that doesn't make Germany a more a country more "culturally southern" than France! The degree of religious practice is something that doesn't really follow any patern in Europe; some very religious countries are in southern Europe (Portugal) others in northern Europe (Ireland); others in eastern Europe (Romania, the most religious country in Europe). In central Europe you find at once a very religous country (Poland); with one of the least religious country just south of it (Czech republic)... It doesn't help those those countries of being part of the same cultural area of Europe; both being Slavic speaking and shaped by a majoritary catholic tradition. To the question "does religion occupy an important place in your life?"; More Germans answered "Yes" than Spaniard... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg

In what consist this "common culture" of the "English-German-french brothers" you speak about? I'm really curious. If you consider that language, religious background, ways of life, food, architecture, urbanity, etc are anecdoctical, what are the cultural aspects that are not anectotical in your opinion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 (talk) 21:04, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Territories
I've added the overseas territories of the UK and Spain to the article, and tidied up the presentation. Astrotrain 18:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * well you did it bad. -- tasc talkdeeds 18:43, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Edit war
What is wrong with you? your version is ugly, it's not possibe to read it and it's in table! why on earth to start edit war? -- tasc talkdeeds 19:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you should try to start a more constructive discussion, rather than a badly worded insult. Astrotrain 21:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Why don't you try to start a 'constructive discussion'? What was exactly an insult? Saying that your version is ugly? -- tasc talkdeeds 07:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Spain
I have added Spain to the template

Islands
What about other islands to be added. They are territories and in my opinion deserve adding, such as Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica.


text: Talk:Punisher (disambiguation)

title: Talk:Punisher (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Podlachia

Ethymology
Current version of this article blocked because of Zivinbudas has the ethymology slightly flawed. It states that Some derive it from the word les, las, i.e., "forest" in Slavic languages, i.e., it is area near forest or area of forests, and in this sense Podlasie is synonymous with the adjacent Polesie.. Literally, the name means under the forest, which could be roughly translated to Latin terms as Cissilvania, while Polesie means literally to the other side of the forest and has a similar root as Transylvania. Of course the forest in question was the huge forest stretching from the Baltic Sea to Volhynia (N-S axis) and from Masovia to Polesie (W-E), parts of which remain a huge forest to this day (Puszcza Bialowieska for instance). Halibutt 11:39, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

--
 * What you claim is simply false. The prefix po- as in Polesie (and similarily in Pogórze, Pomorze, Powiśle, Połabie, Pobuże, Powołże, Połabie, Pojezierze and whatever else) has the meaning "along", "near", "under" etc. - and never "on the other side".
 * The ethymology refering to "las" ("forest") is also false, since the name has originated in the times when the Yotvingian population was subdued (and deported, exterminated or enslaved) and the area inhabited previously by them was divided among Lithuania, Teutonic order and Mazovia (fief of Poland). Then the area was cultivated and not covered with forests. It became so later on as a result of depopulation. The name did not mean "under the Polish rule" but "along/near the Polish (border?)".
 * NoychoH (talk) 09:06, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Although Podlasie probably means 'along/near the Polish' the statement 'Some claim it to mean "under Polish rule" which does not seem historically sound, as the area belonged to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania until 1569, and the southern part of it - until 1795.' is disputable. During the middle ages these areas belongs to polish/masovian states for some time.

Dialects
Dear anon. I beg your pardon but I know what language speaks my family (Biala Podlaska area). For your information I enclose links to these maps:

http://www.harazd.net/%7Enadbuhom/mapy-historia/mapy_2.htm http://www.harazd.net/%7Enadbuhom/mapy-historia/mapy_3.htm http://www.harazd.net/%7Enadbuhom/mapy-historia/mapy_4.htm

If you have got any evidence to support your thesis, please enlight us before you start making mess again.Yeti 17:37, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Re the links with maps - there is an ndonesian website only. Where are the maps?
 * I can only see the Indonesian advertisements. 49.190.240.166 (talk) 02:14, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

..................... Sorry for my being amateurish. Talking about ethnics groups, it should be mentioned the Tatars of muslim faith, still living in some of the willages. Descendands of the polish Tatars "Lipek"s, who get right to live there as instead of their military payment, in late 1670-ties. I was 15 minutes ago on the site from the county Sokólka, so now I know. :) /SZ  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.181.181.54 (talk) 22:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Major Cities
Drohiczyn, Sokołów Podlaski and Węgrów are important historical cities of Podlasie too Zofey 06:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Related discussion
There is a discussion about the proper name for the associated province, or Voivodeship. According to the consensus at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Geography of Poland, it has been determined that an English/Latinized name should be used, but there is disagreement on just what exactly that is. For example, "Podlachian Voivodeship", "Polesian Voivodeship", "Podlasie Voivodeship", etc. Any editors who have an opinion, are invited to participate in the renaming discussion which is currently at Talk:Podlachian Voivodeship. --Elonka 17:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Deportation
I have removed this sentence as it is not correct:

"In 1947 the Ukrainian population of Podlachia was violently deportated in other regions of Poland in Operation Wisła, finishing the polonization of this historically Ukrainian region."

1. The Ruthenian population has never been deported (only some people considered by communist authorities were as Ukrainian activists were). 2. Podlachia is not a historically Ukrainian region, even if was populated by Ukrainian speaking population. Yeti 01:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

To user: Vervin Podlachia is the only traditionally Ukrainian speaking area of present day Poland where the local population has not been removed in 1944-1947. Please, feel free to make a visit there to check personally. In contrary to neighboring Chelm region only a small number of people regarded as Ukrainian activists were resettled (including one person from my family). The reason was that at that time the local population in majority did not consider themselves Ukrainians and were Roman Catholics (even if they still used Ukrainian dialect as a vernacular language). So, please stop reverting, as this is ridiculous. Regards. Yeti 13:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ukrainian Names
There are a slew of Ukrainian names given; I added the one that seems to be actually used in Ukraine at this time, Підляшшя. Do we really need all the others? lubap

Most common name
Google Book search results: Commentary on names: Podlachia is the name of the region in Latin. Podlesie seems like a weird typo or rare variant that probably shouldn't be in lead. Podlasie is the name of the region in Polish. Podlaskie refers to the Podlaskie Voivodeship.
 * Podlachia Poland: About 2,950 results
 * Podlesia Poland: About 383 results
 * Podlasie Poland: About 25,300 results
 * Podlaskie Poland: About 26,300 results

Based on the above, I'd recommend moving the article to Podlasie. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 01:08, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved: no concensus after 43 days. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:48, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Podlachia → Podlasie — Per my analysis in the preceding section, it appears that Podlasie is much more commonly used in English than Latin Podlachia. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 02:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose per WP:UE (use English) and WP:UCN (use common names). If you look at the test mentions of the Google Books you cite in the section above, most of the sources using Podlasie and almost all using Podlaskie are dealing with the modern Polish administrative region, the Podlaskie Voivodeship, and not the much larger multinational historical region which is the subject of this article.  Sources such as Historical Atlas of Central Europe (Paul Robert Magocsi), Cambridge History of Poland, The Lands of Partitioned Poland, 1795-1918 (Wandycz), Encyclopedia of Ukraine, Historical Dictionary of Ukraine, and Regions of Belarus all use Podlachia.  Some other sources such as Shepherd's Historical Atlas and Muir's Historical Atlas use Podlesia.  I can't find English sources referring to the historical as Podlaskie.  Podlachia is a Latin name that has been adopted in various forms by many European languages (it:Podlachia, es:Podlaquia, Podlachie, de:Podlachien).  This is a normal practice in English as well (cf. Silesia, Thuringia, Galicia).   —  AjaxSmack   02:48, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Your arguments don't hold water. Controlling for "voivod(e)ship", we still get a significant majority of sources for Podlasie:
 * Podlasie Poland -voivodeship -voivodship: About 8,200 results
 * Podlachia Poland -voivodeship -voivodship: About 2,840 results
 * You do a good job arguing against many names - but they are not the one I am proposing (Podlasie) :> --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 03:29, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Many of the entries in the Google search for Podlasie Poland -voivodeship -voivodship are about the voivodeshop (since that word is not common in English substitutes are often used) or the university. At least one third of the first page of results refer to the current administrative unit or the university and others are amibiguous.  If you do similar searches for "Podlachia/sie Lithuania" or "Podlachia/sie Ukraine", you get a clearer trend toward the English name.  —  AjaxSmack   04:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Support - We had this argument on Podlachia in 2008 and seem to be doomed to repeat it again in cycles. Nearly 100% of the Podlachia were spawned because sites just copied old information from EN:WP and it propagated. Ajh1492 (talk) 11:19, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Podlasie is my vote. It would not hurt to have a separate article for Southern Podlasie to cover the area between Lublin and the Bug, Podlasie would then cover the northern portion between Bialystok and the Bug. Ajh1492 (talk) 15:49, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Looking at the Google Ngram Viewer comparing Podlachia, Podlasie and Podlaskie it's clearly Podlasie.Ajh1492 (talk) 03:19, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Do not change. Do not use this name, Podlasie because this region in in Belarus also in the area of Pinsk not only Poland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.103.182.21 (talk) 17:10, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

 * You are referring to Polesia this discussion refers to the areas east and north-east of Polesia. Ajh1492 (talk) 15:49, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose The Google Book results are largely false positives; even the first pages will show that. Ngram is basically the same information as a graph. Throwing those out, AjaxSmack's works of general reference are the available data; Piotrus, I'm disappointed in you. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:48, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Not to burst your bubble, but AjaxSmack's references contradict his assertion . . . but on pages 267,340,363,364,437,521 and 598 of THE CAMBRIDGE HISTORY OF POLAND, FROM THE ORIGINS TO SOBIESKI (TO 1696) it refers to Podlasie, there are no references to Podlachia in the text. Ajh1492 (talk) 00:42, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right—but so am I. I wasn't specific in which edition/volume I was referring and the various Cambridge histories use both forms.  This Google Book results listing shows some examples in those volumes that Google has scanned.  (And, for the record, I was referring to the 1971 Volume II where only "Podlachia" is listed in the index.)  —  AjaxSmack   17:31, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Your arguments only reinforce the point of this request, Podlasie is more widely used in English than Podlachia, not to mention the fact that the general geographical region in Polish is referred to as Podlasie. You have still not presented anything that refutes the fact that Podlasie is more commonly used. Ajh1492 (talk) 22:50, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Tatars
Hello! I am sorry, but the paragraph about Muslim population should be removed. Both Bohoniki and Kruszyniany lie decidedly outside the borders of Podlasie. This is nowadays Podlaskie Voivodeship, but historically it was a part of Lithuania (Trakai Voivodeship). We may mention it in the article about contemporary administrative unit, but not here. Best regards, Propositum (talk) 19:19, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Podlachia


text:
Talk:The League of Gentlemen (band)

Untitled
I've added more information, including citations and references, along with the band's brief discography. I have gone ahead and removed the music-importance tag, though I would not rule out merging this article to Robert Fripp. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

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Johnny Toobad
What the hell happened to Johnny Elichaoff's wiki page? Fielding99 (talk) 23:20, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:The League of Gentlemen (band)


text:
Bükk

The Bükk Mountains are a section of the North Hungarian Mountains of the Inner Western Carpathians. Much of the area is included in the Bükk National Park.

Geography
Although Kékes, the highest point in Hungary, is not here but in the nearby Mátra Mountains, the average height of the Bükk Mountains–with more than 20 peaks higher than 900 m–exceeds that of Mátra. The highest point of Bükk is Kettős bérc (961 m), the third highest main peak in Hungary after Kékes and Galyatető.

There are 1,115 known caves in the mountain range, including Bányász-barlang (Miner cave, 274 m) and István-lápa (254 m), the deepest caves in Hungary, the archaeologically important Szeleta cave, the Cave Bath (a main tourist attraction of Miskolc-Tapolca), the Anna Cave, and the István Cave. 52 of the caves are protected because of their fauna and microclimate.

The mountain range is also famous for its skiing facilities located around Bánkút. There are a number of maintained ski slopes equipped with several J-bar lifts. The long traditions of skiing – on the racing and recreational levels – in Bükk are fostered by local enthusiasts constituting the "Bánkút Ski Club" also in charge of operating and developing one of the largest alpine ski centres in Hungary (http://www.bankut.hu).

title: Bükk


text:
Talk:Howard Metzenbaum

Never held a proper job?
I would have thought that any encyclopia entry on Metzenbaum would include his run-in with astronaut John Glenn at the 1974 Democrat primary race to be the Democrat Senate candidate for Ohio.

Metzenbaum, who had beaten Glenn at the same Primary in 1970, made some comments about Glenn having "never met a payroll" (i.e. never had a "proper" job) to which Glenn retored emotionally in a heated debate about military service being a proper job.

Glenn won the 1974 primary by a landslide and when on on succeed Metzenbaum as the US Senator for Ohio. Even though Metzenbaum lost the actual 1970 election to the Republican Robert Taft Jr., he was appointed to the Senate in 1974 when the other Ohio US Senator was appointed Attorney General (I think that bit is covered in the article).

Metzenbaum also beat Taft Jr. in 1976, a rematch of the 1970 election, and Metzenbaum joined Glenn in the US Senate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Politicsboy (talk • contribs)

 * Except for the quotes, this information is all on the page. 17 September 2007 (UTC)Dr who1975

Communist affiliation
Someone should consider writing about his affiliation with the Communist party as their U.S. defense attorney during WWII. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.52.121.101 (talk • contribs)

 * That seems to be an Internet rumor from the Glenn-Metzenbaum chain e-mail. Much of the e-mail is largely true, but I haven't seen anyone verify that part.  (Same e-mail the above "Never held a proper job" section comes from.  That part's mostly true.)--Inonit 01:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

example of myth
http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/37/t/001064.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.241.245.49 (talk • contribs)

doggett smear
Here is an extended transcript of Metzenbaum sneaking in unsworn testimony to smear a black attorney supporting Thomas who also knew Anita Hill. Mr. Doggett had his reputation besmirched by Sen Metzenbaum and the episode is a very clear example of personal character and lack thereof. I can't think of how to include it in the Anita Hill section in an NPOV manner. Perhaps somebody else is a bit more dispassionate on the subject and can make proper use of the material? TMLutas 17:05, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

business career
Information is needed about Metzembaum's business career. He made a fortune investing in land near the Cleveland airports for use as parking lots. He had the foresight to see that airport parking would be a moneymaking venture.Hanksummers (talk) 15:10, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

1974 Resignation
Why did he resign December 23, 1974?—Markles 19:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

 * markles, i wondered that too, decided that must have been the end of the term of the Sen. Saxbe seat that Metzenbaum had been appointed to.  DyNama (talk) 06:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Link to Metzenbaum interracial adoption law
if you go to Howard's APCOA Parking, a disambiguation link at the top has a link to Airport Parking Company; Airport Parking Company does not have a wiki article of it's own, clicking on the link jumps to a paragraph on the Standard Parking page! In the same way, Howard's law does not have it's own article but has a good paragraph on the Interracial adoption page, so a link here should jump to that paragraph but i don't know how to do that! DyNama (talk) 06:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Aspartame controversy
Senator Metzenbaum had an instrumental role in the aspartame controversy. He held senate hearings, questioned the DOJ, and had the GAO investigate the FDA to see if there was any impropriety. He was on the news at the time, and released some lengthy documents summarizing what his staff had learned about the FDA approval process and aspartame research. At the time, it would seem he had been convinced that aspartame was harmful. Here's my question: Was Metzenbaum's role in the aspartame controversy notable? Should it be here? Should it be in the Aspartame controversy article? --SV Resolution(Talk) 18:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Death Tax Proponent
Ol' Howard was a quintessential Democrat - big proponent of death (estate) taxes while a legislator, but moved to a state (FL) without an estate tax just before he dies - then gets buried back in OH. Classic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.168.152.76 (talk) 19:24, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

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Qiu Xiaolong

Qiu Xiaolong (, Chinese pronunciation /tɕʰjoʊː ˌɕjɑʊˈlʊŋ/, American English pronunciation ; born Shanghai, China, 1953) is a Shanghai born-American crime novelist, English-language poet, literary translator, critic, and academic, who has lived for many years in St. Louis, Missouri. He originally visited the United States in 1988 to write a book about T. S. Eliot, but following the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, he remained in America to avoid persecution by the Chinese Communist Party.

He has published twelve crime-thriller/mystery novels as part of the Inspector Chen Cao series. These include Death of a Red Heroine, which won the Anthony Award for best first novel in 2001, and A Loyal Character Dancer. All books follow Shanghai Chief Inspector Chen Cao, a poetry-quoting cop who writes poems himself, and his sidekick Detective Yu. Alongside the plot, the major concern in the books is modern China itself. Each book features quotes from ancient and modern poets, Confucius, insights into Chinese cuisine, architecture, history, politics, herbology and philosophy as well as criminal procedure.

Life in China
Qiu says his father was an "accidental capitalist": in the late 1940s the trading company his father worked for went bankrupt and as severance received a case of unsold perfume essence. His father taught himself how to make perfume and started a small perfume factory in Shanghai. The factory was transferred to the state in the mid-1950s, following the communist takeover of China, and thereafter his father was a manual laborer in a state-run factory.

The Cultural Revolution began in 1966, and the family was branded as "black", part of the counter-revolutionary class. The Red Guard searched their home for two days, taking away anything regarded as decadent (jewelry, books, even electric fans); Qiu's mother had a nervous breakdown, from which she never really recovered. Qiu's father came home at times with bruises from being attacked at work. Then his father suffered an acute retinal detachment and was hospitalized. In order to be eligible for eye surgery, his father had to write a confession of guilt for his capitalist bourgeois sins; but it was not deemed sufficiently repentant. So the teenage Qiu re-wrote it, using melodramatic language and framing his father's capitalist sins as no accident. It seemed to work, as soon after his father received his surgery. Ironically, Qiu says, "The Red Guard’s approval of my father’s confession gave me some confidence in my writing".

Qiu's older brother (Qiu Xiaowei), handicapped from childhood due to infantile paralysis, also suffered a breakdown during the Cultural Revolution, being unable to work or study (the schools all being shut down). The brother is still hospitalized, and Qiu makes regular trips to Shanghai to visit him. He also has a younger sister, Xiaohong.

At age 16, Qiu would have been sent to the countryside to be "re-educated", but was allowed to stay in Shanghai because he suffered from bronchitis. With schools closed, Qiu spent his time practicing Tai Chi in the park on the Bund; one day, he noticed people studying English on a park bench and decided to join them. This interest in English grew into his academic specialty: he got a B.A. in English from East China Normal University (1978), an M.A. in English Literature from the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (1981), and was an Assistant and Associate Research Professor at the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences (1986 – 1988).

In 1988, prior to a fellowship in the United States, he married his wife Wang Lijun.

Life in the United States
In 1988, Qiu went on a Ford Foundation grant to Washington University in St. Louis to work on a book about T.S. Eliot. Eliot was born in St. Louis, and his grandfather founded the university.

But in 1989, Qiu and fellow Chinese academics were stunned to watch TV reports of the severe government crackdown of the Tiananmen Square protests. On July 4, Qiu was volunteering at a St. Louis fair, selling egg rolls as a fundraiser for Chinese student protesters, when he overheard a Voice of America broadcast describing him as "a published poet who supported the democratic movement in China." Subsequent signs suggested Qiu might have trouble if he returned to China: his sister was visited by the Shanghai police who told her "to tell me to behave myself"; and he learned that his latest poetry book, already at the galley stage, would not be published. So Qiu made the momentous choice to stay in the United States, and arranged for his wife to come a month later. The next year, his daughter Julia was born in St. Louis.

Qiu enrolled as student at Washington University in St. Louis and earned an M.A. (1993) and Ph.D. (1995) in Comparative Literature. From 1996 to 2005 he was an adjunct professor there. He and his family continue to live in St. Louis.

Career
Qiu began writing poems in Chinese in 1978, studying under the poet Bian Zhilin (卞之琳). While an academic in China, Qiu wrote poetry and scholarly articles, and translated work by the modernist poet T.S. Eliot into Chinese, including The Waste Land and The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock. Eliot has been a major influence on Qiu, both in his poetry and, more obliquely, in his detective novels. Eliot's "impersonal theory", as opposed to the romantic tradition, holds that the poet should not identify himself with the persona of the poem. Likewise, Inspector Chen of his novels has some of Qiu's traits but is not him, "embracing the tension between the impersonal and personal."

With Qiu's 1989 decision to stay in the United States for political reasons, publishing in China became difficult and he began writing mostly in English. After Qiu finished his Ph.D. in 1995, he visited China again after a long absence. He was impressed by the astounding social changes in the country, with newly minted capitalists becoming darlings and old socialist norms fading. He tried to express some of this in a long poem “Don Quixote in China,” but was not very satisfied with the result. So he decided that a novel was better for describing "this type of dramatic change -- you can call it 'best of times, worst of times'". Never having written a novel before, and writing it in his second language of English, he latched onto the "detective story as a ready-made framework". Thus was born his protagonist Inspector Chen Cao, like Qiu a Chinese poet and translator from Shanghai who studied English literature, but also a policeman. Qiu says, "A cop needs to walk around, knock on people's doors and talk to various people. This particular cop is very helpful because he's an intellectual. He's not only going to catch a murderer; he also tries to think what's wrong historically, socially, culturally — in what kind of a context did this tragedy occur?"

Qiu's first Inspector Chen novel, Death of a Red Heroine, garnered him the 2001 Anthony Award for Best First Novel by a mystery writer. and The Wall Street Journal ranked it as the third best political novel of all time. It was based in part on an actual sex and drug scandal from the early 1990s. Up to 2019, Qiu has written eleven Inspector Chen novels. The early novels are often occupied with legacies of the Cultural Revolution. The series has tried to keep up with the continuing changes in China. Qiu goes back regularly to visit, watches Chinese TV via satellite, and reads Chinese newspapers over the internet. The seventh novel, Don't Cry, Tai Lake touches on environmental contamination in modern China. Discussions and revelations on Chinese microblogs (Weibo) inspired some of the eighth novel, The Enigma of China. The scandals and downfall of the high Chinese official Bo Xilai formed a basis for the ninth novel, Shanghai Redemption.

In many of the Inspector Chen novels, Qiu portrays traditional Shanghai life amidst the old alleyways and also how it is rapidly disappearing with modernization. These are also themes in two of his other works: Red Dust is a set of short stories about the inhabitants of a small lane in Shanghai, spanning Mao's rise to the return of capitalism; Disappearing Shanghai combines intimate black-and-white photos of older Shanghai with poems by Qiu. Qiu visits his old family house in Shanghai occasionally; frozen in time, it is filled with old carved furniture and devoid of plumbing (having instead a chamber pot).

Influence and Style
Cultural background is a major influence in Qiu' s novels. From the Cultural Revolution to the Economic Reform, his writing reflects the society during those times. For Qiu, a lot of the writing is inspired by his own childhood experiences. Qiu also writes about Chinese cuisine in his novels, which gives Western readers a glimpse into Chinese food culture, and the Chinese people, as the Chinese people in Qiu's novels are not portrayed as the stereotypical characters who are ignorant and foolish, living an exotic lifestyle. Rather, he portrays a range of realistic characters who are talented, virtuous, and open-minded.

One of the most significant stylistic symbols in Qiu Xiaolong' s novel is that he incorporates a lot of poetic writing, which stylistically owes more to Eliot and Yeats than it does to classical Chinese verse.

Qiu's teacher, Bian ZhiLin, significantly influenced him on his career path as well. When he was pursuing his master's degree, he started writing poems when his teacher Bian suggested him to do so. Furthermore, following Bian's footstep, Qiu started to write novels in English as Bian was writing English novels instead of Chinese novels.

Qiu believes it is an advantage rather than a disadvantage to write from a distance, which reflects the fact that he is writing about China from a distance. One may see from an angle what those living in the place fail to see. According to Qiu, he is using his detective novels as a scope to view Chinese society, raising important political and social issues about contemporary China. As he said:"“The 'protagonist' of my novel is actually China, whereas the detective fictions are just the masks--the Western society has many bias and misunderstanding when they are introducing China. I hope to portray parts of the true China using English, and talk about the changes and confusions Chinese people are experiencing during the period of social transition.'"

Comments
His series of novels featuring Shanghai Inspector Chen Cao has been praised for its accurate portrayal of modern life in communist China, where a difficult transition toward a more Western society and capitalist economy conflicts with traditional Chinese values and a still-oppressive and bureaucratic government.

Many reviewers concluded that Qiu's descriptions of China and its society were the most interesting parts of the book, and that the murder mystery serves as a device to paint the nation's portrait. Connie Fletcher, writing in Booklist, declared that the book was "fascinating for what it reveals about China as well as what it reveals about a complex man in this setting."

Critiques
Qiu Xiaolong's work has been criticized by Chinese critics and readers who claim that his depiction of China is not real as his target audience is primarily Western readers. Some Chinese critics have complained that Qiu's content plays to orientalism that appeals to Western perceptions of China, utilizing cultural elements like folklore, ancient poetry, and cuisine. Critics also argue that Qiu's novels lack deductive reasoning and suspenseful enough plot to be considered a worthy detective story.

Self-critique by Qiu Xiaolong
Qiu's themes often revolve around corruption in China. He has claimed that since the Communist party has taken over control of the media, the internet has become an important and effective way for people to speak out for justice in spite of constant censorship. He has argued that political reform in China would be impossible despite dramatic economic changes. His detective novels’ protagonist Inspector Chen often uncovers corruption while investigating case, which turns his idealism toward pessimism about the Chinese political system. He also has commented that his love of incorporating authentic regional Chinese food into his fiction is related to feelings of nostalgia, such as  Marcel Proust famously does in Remembrance of Things Past; and that traditional food in present China still exists because of the food-safety scandals.

Awards

 * Ford Foundation grant, 1988
 * Missouri Arts Council Writers Biennial Award, for poetry, 1994
 * Named Among Best Ten Books of 2000
 * Anthony Award for best first novel for Death of a Red Heroine, 2001
 * Bouchercon for Death of a Red Heroine, 2001

Inspector Chen Cao series

 * Death of a Red Heroine (2000)
 * A Loyal Character Dancer (2002)
 * When Red Is Black (2004)
 * A Case of Two Cities (2006)
 * Red Mandarin Dress (2007)
 * The Mao Case (2009)
 * Don't Cry, Tai Lake (2012)
 * Enigma of China (2013)
 * Shanghai Redemption (2015)
 * Hold Your Breath, China (2019)
 * Becoming Inspector Chen (2020)
 * Inspector Chen and the Private Kitchen Murder (2021)
 * Love and Murder in the Time of Covid (2023)

Adaptations
The novels have been adapted as BBC Radio 4 dramas, starring Jamie Zubairi as Chen and Dan Li as Detective Yu. The adaptations were handled by Joy Wilkinson (Death of a Red Heroine, Red Mandarin Dress, The Mao Case, Don't Cry, Tai Lake and Hold Your Breath, China) and John Harvey (A Loyal Character Dancer, When Red is Black, A Case of Two Cities, Enigma of China and Shanghai Redemption).

In 2011, it was announced that the Inspector Chen novels would be adapted into a series of seven feature films, to be made as a co-production between Australia and China. There has been no further word on the project since then.

Other books

 * Lines Around China (poetry collection) (2003)
 * Years of Red Dust (2010)
 * Disappearing Shanghai (2012), with photos by Howard W. French
 * The Shadow of the Empire: A Judge Dee Investigation (2021)

Poetry translations

 * Treasury of Chinese Love Poems (2003)
 * 100 Poems from Tang and Song Dynasties (2006)
 * Evoking T'ang: An Anthology of Classical Chinese Poetry (2007)
 * Lines Around China: Lines Out Of China (2008)
 * 100 Classic Chinese Poems (2010)
 * Disappearing Shanghai: Photographs and Poems of an Intimate Way of Life (2012)
 * Poems of Inspector Chen (2016)

title: Qiu Xiaolong