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Talk:Smooth muscle

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Someone please correct the sentence "each cell is spindle-shaped, 20-500 micrometers in is ~6:1 in striated muscle and ~15:1 in smooth muscle" - perhaps it's about cell length:width proportions, but I always thought that smooth muscles are less elongated than striated.Porridge (talk) 09:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Well I messed around and have changed most of the article. It maybe too complicated, and surely needs editing. I can provide references for any facts, but I think some of it is too detailed for an encyclopedia. Help me clip down. GetAgrippa 21:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

yeh somebody make the part about function a little less complicated please

 * I made the Function section a bit easier to read. Jamesters 23:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

In my studies,"Smooth muscle tissue" always seemed to be a slang term. The more professional term that was used was "Visceral muscle tissue". Isn't Visceral muscle tissue the official term for it now? Shouldn't this article be renamed? I may be incorrect. I'm not going to change it right now myself since I am not confident enough. It may need to be considered though. Jamesters 23:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Jamesters there is Vascular and Visceral Smooth muscle and it refers to its location. Vascular- arteries and veins or viscera-gut,reproductive tract, respiratory tract, etc.GetAgrippa 01:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * All right, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying! Jamesters 10:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Is someone able to explain "slow waves rhythm" (don't know exact English term), decribed in Guyton's physiology as a process characterictic to smooth muscles, that can lead to creation of action potential?
 * What206.74.157.2 (talk) 15:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Smooth muscle from some sources displays spontaneous rhythmic activity and autonomic innervation influences contractility. In the gut interstitial cells of Cajal are specialized pacemaker cells. I'll read up on it. GetAgrippa 22:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Fix-up
For being a member of two wikiprojects, this article shows poor composition and format. If someone would be able to clean it up, that would be great. The information is not structured with a focus on clean, informative text, but rather galloping ideas that skip over some significant points, such as the ones I added.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 18:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. The article was a stub. I added to what was present by vomiting a bunch of information on the page touching on various subjects. The contraction relaxation info concentrates on cell signalling rather than biomechanics. A section on the biomechanical properties of various smooth muscle preparations would be interesting but probably overkill for an encyclopedia. Perhaps a secton of neurohumoral influences that effect smooth muscle containing tissues of the body-gut, skin goose bumps, erection, etc. This article doesn't generate much interest so I hadn't even bothered to add any references because I think much of what I added is probably not appropriate for an encyclopedia article anyways and will be removed. I had hoped someone familiar with this Wiki's format and experienced at writing encyclopedia articles would organize and rewrite it into something more useful. Subsections on cell signalling and biomechanics (stress-relaxation, hysteresis, shortening velocities of various tissues, etc.) might be appropriate. Perhaps a section on differences in proteins such as actin and myosin isoforms, lack of troponin and titin, significant other proteins like caldesmon and calponin, etc. Most of this Wiki's articles concerning muscle and contraction are poorly written and the emphasis is always vertebrate and particularly human rather than a general biological perspective that would encompass invertebrate and vertebrate. GetAgrippa 14:15, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I don't think that the focus of the article being human smooth muscle is at all a problem -- a quick survery of articles such as maxillary central incisor, gall bladder and trigeminal nerve all show a predominance of human anatomy and physiology over those of other species, vertebrate or not. This discussion has taken place at least in one place (hmmm...can't remember where exactly, but I know it had to do with the tooth article, in terms of "who" or "what" is the focus of our articles when it comes to multiple species and their possession of various anatomical and physiologic characteristics.)
 * I think the smooth muscle article should focus on the basics of smooth muscle anatomy and physiology, and discuss the differences of smooth in relation to skeletal and cardiac muscle.
 * I'll volunteer to redraft this article, if you give me two weeks or so.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 02:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The nomenclature used can be confusing and I noted on line searches yielded similar misinformation and confusion. Visceral smooth muscle can be multiunit or single unit. Including blood vessels with visceral smooth muscle is confusing as it is vascular smooth muscle. Smooth muscle from different visceral sources gut, etc. and from different areas of the vasculature are very different beast. I would think that an encyclopedia would be more general biology and not limited to vertebrate or human in its scope, and NPOV should encourage a more general article. I like your idea to compare skeletal, cardiac, and smooth muscle because that would bring up the topics of titin isoforms and stiffness (and the lack of titin in smooth muscle), the differences in shortening velocity-myosin isoforms and ADP affinity,etc, the lack of troponin in smooth muscle and calcium dependent MLC phosphorylation, differences in intracellular structure and content, differences in ionic channels. It could really make a nice separate article. In any case I am pleased you are willing to work on the article and I can assist in finding references for any given posit. Regards GetAgrippa 16:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Advanced section

 * The advanced section of contraction and relaxation is great info but probably not appropriate for this encyclopedia. I paired the article down by removing section so we can fix this article. I believe some of the info can be mentioned in other articles or perhaps another article with a different emphasis or cherry pick some to put in basic section. I will move the section to here for now:

Section on Advanced Contraction and Relaxation removed for development.

Muscle can be characterized as two types: tonic and phasic which describes their response to depolarizing high potassium solutions. Tonic smooth muscle contracts and relaxes slowly and exhibits force maintenance such as vascular smooth muscle. Force maintenance is the maintaining of a contraction for a prolonged time with little energy utilization. The phasic smooth muscle contracts and relaxes rapidly such as gut smooth muscle. This phasic response is useful to massage substances through the lumen of the gastrointestinal tract during peristalsis. Vascular smooth muscle (walls of arteries and veins) and visceral smooth muscle (wall of gastrointestinal tract, urogenital tract, iris) is another distinction in common use to discriminate the kind of smooth muscle. Contractions in vertebrate smooth muscle can be initiated by stretch, gap junction electrical, and neural and humoral receptor mediated agents (acetylcholine, endothelin, etc.). Smooth muscle in the gastrointestinal and urogenital tracts is regulated by the enteric nervous system and by peristaltic pacemaker cells -- the interstitial cells of Cajal.

Stretch, neural and humoral agents, and gap junction activity that depolarize the sarcolemma increase intracellular calcium. Extracellular calcium enters through L type calcium channels and intracellular calcium is released from stored calcium in the sarcoplasmic reticulum. Calcium release from the sarcoplasmic reticulum is through Ryanodine receptor channels (calcium sparks) by a redox process and inositol triphosphate receptor channels by the second messenger inositol triphosphate. The intracellular calcium binds with calmodulin which then binds and activates myosin-light chain kinase. The calcium-calmodulin-myosin light chain kinase complex phosphorylates the 20 kilodalton (kd) myosin light chains on amino acid residue-serine 19 to initiate contraction. The phosphorylation of the myosin light chains then allows the myosin ATPase to function. The thin filament associated proteins caldesmon and calponin are also believed to serve a function in contractility within smooth muscle. During contraction actin polymerization also occurs and it appears to be significant in the process.

Phosphorylation of the 20 kd myosin light chains correlates well with the shortening velocity of smooth muscle. During this period there is a rapid burst of energy utilization as measured by oxygen consumption. Within a few minutes of initiation the calcium level markedly decrease, 20 kd myosin light chains phosphorylation decreases, and energy utilization decreases and the muscle can relax, however there is a sustained maintenance of force in vascular smooth muscle. The sustained phase has been attributed to slowly cycling dephosphorylated myosin crossbridges termed latch-bridges and actin polymerization stiffening the cell. During contraction of muscle, rapidly cycling crossbridges form between activated actin and phosphorylated myosin generating force. During the sustained phase, phosphorylation levels decline and slow cycling dephosphorylated crossbridges act as latch bridges to contribute to maintaining the force at low energy costs. Other cell signalling pathways and protein kinases (Protein kinase C, ROCK kinase, Zip kinase, Focal adhesion kinases) have been implcated and actin polymerization dynamics plays a role in force maintenance. While myosin light chain phosphorylation correlates well with shortening velocity, other cell signalling pathways have been implicated in the development of force and maintenance of force. Notably the phosphorylation of specific tyrosine residues on the focal adhesion adapter protein-paxillin by specific tyrosine kinases has been demonstrated to be essential to force development and maintenance.

Phosphorylation of the 20kd myosin light chains is counteracted by a myosin light chain phosphatase that dephosphorylates the myosin light chains. Isolated preparations of vascular and visceral smooth muscle contract with depolarizing high potassium balanced saline generating a certain amount of contractile force. The same preparation stimulated in normal balanced saline with an agonist such as endothelin or serotonin will generate more contractile force. This increase in force is termed calcium sensitization. The myosin light chain phosphatase is inhibited to increase the gain or sensitivity of myosin light chain kinase to calcium. There are number of cell signalling pathways believed to regulate this decrease in myosin light chain phosphatase: a RhoA-Rock kinase pathway, a Protein kinase C-Protein kinase C potentiation inhibitor protein 17 (CPI-17) pathway, telokin, and a Zip kinase pathway. Further Rock kinase and Zip kinase have been implicated to directly phosphorylate the 20kd myosin light chains. The relaxation of smooth muscle can be mediated by the endothelium-derived relaxing factor-nitric oxide, endothelial derived hyperpolarizing factor (either an endogenous cannabinoid, cytochrome P450 metabolite, or hydrogen peroxide), or prostacyclin (PGI2). Nitric oxide and PGI2 stimulate soluble guanylate cyclase and membrane bound adenylate cyclase, respectively. These cyclic nucleotides activate Protein Kinase G and Proten Kinase A and phosphorylate a number of proteins. The phosphorylation events lead to a decrease in intracelluar calcium (inhibit L type Calcium channels, inhibits IP3 receptor channels, stimulates sarcoplasmic reticulum Calcium pump ATPase), a decrease in the 20kd myosin light chain phosphorylation by altering calcium sensitization and increasing myosin light chain phosphatase activity, a stimulation of calcium sensitive potassium channels which hyperpolarize the cell, and the phosphorylation of amino acid residue serine 16 on the small heat shock protein (hsp20)by Protein Kinases A and G. The phosphorylation of hsp20 appears to alter actin and focal adhesion dynamics and actin-myosin interaction, and recent evidence indicates that hsp20 binding to 14-3-3 protein is envolved in this process. Hsp20 may also alter the affinity of phosphorylated myosin with actin and inhibit contractility by interfering with crossbridge formation. The endothelium derived hyperpolarizing factor stimulates calcium sensitive potassium channels and/or ATP sensitive potassium channels and stimulate potassium efflux which hyperpolarizes the cell and produces relaxation.GetAgrippa (talk) 15:38, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a nice summary on the mechanical aspects of the relaxation-contraction mechanism but there is no discussion on the Latch-bridge state which is one of the most important principles for energy conservation in smooth muscle. This princple is the key to low fatiguability of smooth muscle. I can add this if no one feels incline to do so. SteveD 14th December 2008. 7:44 am. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.106.16.56 (talk) 20:45, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

That would be very nice to know, SteveD. Also, some people are interested in the exceptions to the rule that smooth muscle is involuntary. So, information concerning any conscious operation of the smooth muscle systems of the human body would be very useful for students, etc., to know. Thank you. (Contributions/124.180.255.210 (talk) 18:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC))
 * There is now a discussion of latch bridges. To my knowledge their aren't any volutary smooth muscles. All the smooth muscle sphincters are involuntary and skeletal muscle sphincters are voluntarily regulated. Smooth muscle in eyes, kidneys, arteries and veins, gut, bladder and reproductive tract, are involuntary. Smooth muscle in skin is also involuntary.GetAgrippa (talk) 01:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Time to add references
I'm going to use the talk page as a sandbox while I gather references for this article. I will later format by Wikipedia standards. GetAgrippa (talk) 15:57, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Contents of myofibrillar proteins in cardiac, skeletal, and smooth muscles. Murakami U, Uchida K. J Biochem. 1985 Jul;98(1):187-97.PMID: 4044549 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articles The thin filaments of smooth muscles. Marston SB, Smith CW. J Muscle Res Cell Motil. 1985 Dec;6(6):669-708. Review.PMID: 3937845 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related articles

Corkscrew-like shortening in single smooth muscle cells. Warshaw DM, McBride WJ, Work SS. Science. 1987 Jun 12;236(4807):1457-9.

Bennett, J. P., R. A. Cross, J. Kendrick-Jones, andA. G. Weeds. 1988. Spatial pattern of myosin phosphorylation in contracting smooth muscle PMID: 3109034 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Membrane rafts and caveolae in cardiovascular signaling. Insel PA, Patel HH. Curr Opin Nephrol Hypertens. 2009 Jan;18(1):50-6. Review. PMID: 19077689 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The latch-bridge hypothesis of smooth muscle contraction. Murphy RA, Rembold CM. Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2005 Oct;83(10):857-64. Review. PMID: 16333357 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Regulation of shortening velocity by cross-bridge phosphorylation in smooth muscle. Hai CM, Murphy RA. Am J Physiol. 1988 Jul;255(1 Pt 1):C86-94. PMID: 3389402 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

(Excellent Book) Biochemistry of Smooth Muscle Contraction Copyright © 1996 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved Author(s): Michael Bárány ISBN: 978-0-12-078160-7

(Molluscan smooth muscle) Twitchin as a regulator of catch contraction in molluscan smooth muscle. Funabara D, Kanoh S, Siegman MJ, Butler TM, Hartshorne DJ, Watabe S. J Muscle Res Cell Motil. 2005;26(6-8):455-60. Review. PMID: 16453161 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Molecular basis of the catch state in molluscan smooth muscles: a catchy challenge. Galler S.J Biol Chem. 1988 Dec 15;263(35):19166-73.

Sites phosphorylated in myosin light chain in contracting smooth muscle. Colburn JC, Michnoff CH, Hsu LC, Slaughter CA, Kamm KE, Stull JT. Department of Physiology, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas 75235. J Muscle Res Cell Motil. 2008;29(2-5):73-99. Epub 2008 Nov 28. Review. PMID: 19039672 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Remember to add section on actin and myosin isoforms in smooth muscle!!!!! Add section of orientation of smooth muscle in various organs such as blood vessels,iris and ciliary body, respiratory tract, digestive tract layers, urinary tract, and reproductive tract-also differences in smooth muscle in these tissues. Perhaps a section for each with organization of smooth muscle, control, function, differences in contractile protein isoforms, receptors, cell signalling pathways, etc. Really bring article together with more info demonstrating the diversity of smooth muscle,Maybe a little biomechanics from Dobrin and Fung especially about viscoelasticity and length tension curve of smooth muscle compared to striated muscle (smooth can be stretched most, skeletal length tension curve then stiff cardiac curve due to titin isoforms-important in preload and Starling's law. Differences in receptors explain differences in response of skeletal blood vessels and coronary blood vessels dilate from sympathetic activation, unlike rest of vasculature which vasoconstricts. Importance of blood flow regulation in afferent and efferent arterioles of kidney glomerulus, mesangial cells, juxtaglomerular complex, then bladder smooth muscle section. Digestive tract section regulation of motiity by neuroendocrine factors, interstitial cells of Cajal, etc. Respiratory tract section tracheal, bronchial smooth muscle, section on asthma. Note how pulmonary arteries dilate with high pO2 whereas most constrict. Brain arteries sensitive to pH and carbon dioxide. Regulation of iris of eye section. Regulation of uterine contractions in sex and birth. Segment on errector pili smooth muscle of skin. Histology, Function and Regulation, Normal and Pathology to fit in WikiMedicine and Anatomy. GetAgrippa (talk) 05:23, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Present Contents Contents [hide] 1 Function 2 Contraction and relaxation basics 3 Advances and Current Research in Contraction and Relaxation 4 Invertebrate smooth muscle 5 Control 6 Growth and rearrangement 7 Related diseases 8 References 9 See also 10 External links

Proposed Contents 1 Define, function and where present, nomenclature (single-unit vs multi-unit, phasic vs tonic, vascular vs visceral). 2 Contraction and relaxation. Biomechanical properties of smooth muscle tissues. 3 Digestive tract (these sections 3-7 will demonstrate diversity of smooth muscle and give info related to major systems) 4 Respiratory tract-Pulmonary arteries, bronchioles, tracheal, etc. 5 Excretory tract-juxtaglomerular complex-renin and tubuloglomerular feedback, bladder smooth muscle regulaton, etc. 6 Reproductive tract-Male (viagra, PDE inhibitors) and female (birth, hormones) 7 Other specialized areas: Brain-sensitivity to pH and hypercapnia, Skeletal and Coronary Arteries, Iris of Eye 8 Control 9 Growth and rearrangement 10 Related diseases 11 Invertebrate smooth muscle-regulation of latch state by twitchin. 12 See also 13 External links

Thanks
Thanks to all the editors who took my effort to expand this article and organized and expanded it. I still think some of my suggestions I posited above would be nice additions still. I added some references here but never incorporated so I'll try to do that. Regards. GetAgrippa (talk) 18:36, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

one of most — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.146.214.228 (talk) 10:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to use this as storage as I collect references.

Other tensile structures.

Isolated single smooth muscle cells have been observed contracting in a spiral corkscrew fashion, and isolated permeabilized smooth muscle cells adhered to glass (so contractile proteins allowed to internally contract) demonstrate zones of contractile protein interactions along the long axis as the cell contracts. D M Warshaw, W J McBride, S S Work PMID: 3109034 DOI: 10.1126/science.3109034)  *(J Cell Biol, 111 (6 Pt 1), 2463-73  Dec 1990 The Cytoskeletal and Contractile Apparatus of Smooth Muscle: Contraction Bands and Segmentation of the Contractile ElementsA Draeger 1, W B Amos, M Ikebe, J V Small Affiliations expand PMID: 2277068  PMCID: PMC2116423  DOI: 10.1083/jcb.111.6.2463.
 * (Science, 236 (4807), 1457-9 1987 Jun 12 Corkscrew-like Shortening in Single Smooth Muscle Cells

Adrenergic receptors (confounding sentence)
This sentence in the section 'External substances' is contradictory as regards adrenergic receptors in the smooth muscle. Blood vessel contraction is always caused by the smooth muscle of their walls, but the sentence starts saying they have alpha-1-adrenergic receptors but ends saying they have beta-adrenergic receptors. The sentence is: "For instance, most blood vessels respond to norepinephrine and epinephrine (from sympathetic stimulation or the adrenal medulla) by producing vasoconstriction (this response is mediated through alpha 1-adrenergic receptors). Blood vessels in skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle respond to these catecholamines producing vasodilation because the smooth muscle possess beta-adrenergic receptors." What does 'most blood vessels' mean here? Most blood vessels in the entire body? Or in the smooth muscle?-Miguelferig (talk) 12:04, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Single-unit smooth muscle into Smooth muscle
Small stub covered mostly on target page - the other type is multiunit another smaller stub without a target which would fit well into  both items being covered on target page structure section Iztwoz (talk) 20:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support seems sensible and straightforward to have these covered on the same article.Tom (LT) (talk) 01:31, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Who discovered smooth muscle cell
I want to now plesase tell me 103.95.164.129 (talk) 13:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Smooth muscle


text:
User:Muugokszhiion

 * Neuroscience
 * Microbiology
 * Psychology
 * Evolution
 * Solar energy
 * Salvia divinorum
 * Lysergic acid diethylamide
 * Phenethylamine and tryptamine chemistry

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Muugokszhiion


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Talk:GM

move discussion 2005

 * The following discussion is closed. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

 * Oppose: The distinction between the disambiguation page and GM page is important for disambiguation of inbound links. Josh Parris ✉ 00:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose; seems like GM could productively redirect to General Motors with a link at the top back to GM (disambiguation), actually. --Quuxplusone 01:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Since there is a lot more to GM than General Motors. Wikipedia should reflect an international audience rather than a US-centric viewpoint. Alan Liefting 04:01, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't object to that, but I'm not sure that GM is clearly General Motors. Look at the size of the dab page. Josh Parris ✉ 02:11, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * In the UK, "GM" is far more commonly understood to mean "genetically modified" than "General Motors". If you doubt this, try searching the BBC site for "GM" GrahamN 03:36, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 23:16, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Grindelsomething
www.ggm-bahn.ch uses GGM, not GM, for "Grindelwald Männlichenbahn" (sic), which should probably read Grindelwald-Männlichen-Bahn, Männlichenbahn Grindelwald or something similar. This seems to be a somwhat obscure abbreviation that shouldn't clutter up the dab page unless 69.197.51.18 or somebody else comes forward with examples of GM in use. – Wikipeditor 20:37, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

A few changes
I moved the order of some of them. If anyone dissagrees give your reason below and change it. reason ______ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.220.23 (talk • contribs) 03:44, 27 September 2006

Requested move - January 2006

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. — Nightstallion (?) 10:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

GM (disambiguation) → GM – Redirects from the article to a (disambiguation) page should be avoided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vegaswikian (talk • contribs) 23:56, 21 January 2006

Voting

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~

 * Support GM redirected to GM (disambiguation) and GM redirected to General Motors is not justified. Just put the dab page where the article would be.  Vegaswikian 23:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Support removes reflexive redirect—jiy (talk) 00:29, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Support --Lox (t,c) 09:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Request move March 2006: New Vote to move General Motors → GM and GM → GM (disambig)

 * The following discussion is closed. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

 * Support; General Motors is among the largest corporations in the world, and is the largest vehicle corporation in the world. I see that there is a number of other GMs out there, but General Motors is the most famous usage of the term. Putting it this way, if someone is going to look up GM on Wikipedia- are they going to look up genetically modified or General Motors? --Zouf 02:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Oppose; No-one outside the US would automatically associate GM with General Motors. Wikipedia is supposed to be international; outside the US GM is usually taken to mean Genetically Modified. GM should link to a disamb page which highlights General Motors and genetically modified only. English Wikipedia may have a large number of US users but that does not mean that Non-Americans should be ignored.--84.12.21.104 00:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Support; Most people that look up GM are looking for General Motors. 192.122.237.11 15:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Support; GM is a global corp. They sell cars on every continent (OK, not Antartica).  When people around the world search for GM, the vast majority are looking for General Motors. HornColumbia 18:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Gary Moore?
Gary Moore, an Irish guitarist - Google search seems to show that Mr Moore is commonly known as GM. I'm as surprised as you. Josh Parris 03:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

GM --> General Motors
This is crazy. GM's most common usage is CLEARLY General Motors - and Im from New Zealand! 125.238.131.90 09:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

"Game Manager"?
re "Game Manager A job,maintance game(s)". Is GM=Game Manager a common abbreviation? I can't find a particular meaning of game manager: Google shows the phrase is used in various contexts from someone caring for wildlife to a system for controlling video games, but I can't see evidence of the regular use of "GM" in a particular field. There's no WP entry for Game Manager, which isn't in itself grounds for removing it, but makes keeping it of uncertain usefulness. Evidence or deletion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maltelauridsbrigge (talk • contribs) 13:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Let's remove these items from list
I think we should remove the items below from the page, and propose removing the following. This isn't supposed a list of all things that could be abbreviated as GM. This page is for somebody who types "GM" as the actual name of what they're looking for. Also, if somethings a minor topic, and GM isn't the primary name of the item, it doesn't belong here, as these are detracting from major topics (e.g. the auto company). --Rob (talk) 19:09, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Grand Marquis
 * Greater Manchester
 * GM1, GM1<>GM
 * Göttinger Miszellen - not exactly a common term
 * Gary Moore - not referred to by initials normally, same for other people
 * George Michael
 * Gabriella Montez
 * RGM-79 GM - Trivia to the extreme
 * Gamemaster (board game series)
 * GamesMaster (magazine)
 * Game Maker
 * Garry's Mod
 * Gold medal - During the Olympics people say "gold", not GM, SM, or BM?
 * Grammatical modality - Not mentioned in article redirected to

Changing of order
I changed it so that General Motors came up first because it most likely that that is what people are looking for. This was the only change I made. Benp123456789 (talk) 20:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Genetic modification
I've added that to the top of the Science list. I'm surprised that it wasn't there before and I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be on top. Durand101 (talk) 10:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

"GM"
The usage and primary topic of is under discussion, see talk:General Motors -- 70.51.202.183 (talk) 18:27, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Russo has wrong title
Russo is listed as CEO of Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. She is chairman of the board. Antonio Neri is CEO. Ken L (talk) 02:16, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:GM


text:
Summertime (George Gershwin song)

"Summertime" is an aria composed in 1934 by George Gershwin for the 1935 opera Porgy and Bess. The lyrics are by DuBose Heyward, the author of the novel Porgy on which the opera was based, and Ira Gershwin.

The song soon became a popular and much-recorded jazz standard, described as "without doubt ... one of the finest songs the composer ever wrote ... Gershwin's highly evocative writing brilliantly mixes elements of jazz and the song styles of African-Americans in the South-East United States from the early twentieth century". Composer and lyricist Stephen Sondheim characterized Heyward's lyrics for "Summertime" and "My Man's Gone Now" as "the best lyrics in the musical theater".

Porgy and Bess
Gershwin began composing the song in December 1933, attempting to create his own spiritual in the style of the African American folk music of the period. Gershwin had completed setting DuBose Heyward's poem to music by February 1934, and spent the next 20 months completing and orchestrating the score of the opera.

The song is sung several times throughout Porgy and Bess. Its lyrics are the first words heard in act 1 of the opera, following the communal "wa-do-wa". It is sung by Clara as a lullaby. The song theme is reprised soon after as counterpoint to the craps game scene, in act 2 in a reprise by Clara, and in act 3 by Bess, singing to Clara's now-orphaned baby after both parents died in the storm.

The song was recorded for the first time by Abbie Mitchell on July 19, 1935, with George Gershwin playing the piano and conducting the orchestra (on: George Gershwin Conducts Excerpts from Porgy & Bess, Mark 56 667).

The 1959 movie version of the musical featured Loulie Jean Norman singing the song. That rendition finished at #52 in AFI's 100 Years...100 Songs survey of top tunes in American cinema.

Lyrics
Heyward's inspiration for the lyrics was the southern folk spiritual-lullaby "All My Trials", of which he had Clara sing a snippet in his play Porgy. The lyrics have been highly praised by Stephen Sondheim. Writing of the opening line, he says

"That "and" is worth a great deal of attention. I would write "Summertime when" but that "and" sets up a tone, a whole poetic tone, not to mention a whole kind of diction that is going to be used in the play; an informal, uneducated diction and a stream of consciousness, as in many of the songs like "My Man's Gone Now". It's the exact right word, and that word is worth its weight in gold. "Summertime when the livin' is easy" is a boring line compared to "Summertime and". The choices of "ands" [and] "buts" become almost traumatic as you are writing a lyric – or should, anyway – because each one weighs so much."

Music
Musicologist K. J. McElrath wrote of the song: Gershwin was remarkably successful in his intent to have this sound like a folk song. This is reinforced by his extensive use (one exception: the note B under the word "high") of the pentatonic scale (C–D–E–G–A) in the context of the A minor tonality and a slow-moving harmonic progression that suggests a "blues". Because of these factors, this tune has been a favorite of jazz performers for decades and can be done in a variety of tempos and styles.

While in his own description, Gershwin did not use any previously composed spirituals in his opera, Summertime is often considered an adaptation of the African American spiritual "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child", which ended the play version of Porgy.

Other versions
Statistics for the number of recordings of "Summertime" vary by source; while older data is restricted to commercial releases, newer sources may include versions self-published online. The Jazz Discography in 2005 listed 1,161 official releases, ranking the song fourth among jazz standards. Joe Nocera in 2012 said there were "over 25,000" recordings. Guinness World Records lists the website's 2017 figure of 67,591 as the world record total.

Other versions to make the pop charts include those by:
 * In September 1936, a recording by Billie Holiday was the first to hit the US pop charts, reaching number 12.
 * Sam Cooke (US number 81, 1957)
 * Al Martino (UK number 49, 1960)
 * The Marcels (US number 78, 1961)
 * Ricky Nelson (US number 89, 1962)
 * The Chris Columbo Quintet (US number 93, 1963).
 * The most commercially successful version was by Billy Stewart, whose scat-laden R&B version reached number 10 on the Billboard Hot 100 and number 7 on the R&B chart in 1966; his version also reached number 39 in the UK and number 13 in Canada.
 * Janis Joplin recorded a version for the 1968 Cheap Thrills album. The album charted at number 1 for eight weeks on the Billboard 200 chart; however, the song was not released as a single.
 * In the UK, a version by the Fun Boy Three reached number 18 on the UK Singles Chart in 1982.
 * The version by Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald, released on their 1959 album Porgy and Bess, was certified silver by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) in 2022.
 * Sublime (band) sample Herbie Mann's cover in their song Doin' Time.

title: Summertime (George Gershwin song)


text:
Summertime (Beyoncé song)

"Summertime" is a song recorded by American singer Beyoncé, featuring American rapper P. Diddy. "Summertime" was written by Beyoncé, Angela Beyincé, P. Diddy, Steven "Stevie J." Jordan, Adonis Shropshire, Varick "Smitty" Smith and Mario Winans, while production was handled by Winans and P. Diddy. The song was later remixed to feature vocals from American rapper Ghostface Killah. "Summertime" was included on the soundtrack album for the film The Fighting Temptations (2003), in which Beyoncé played the lead female role. The original version of the song was released as a B-side to "Crazy in Love" in the UK and Australia, while it was issued as a 12-inch vinyl single in the United States through Columbia Records.

"Summertime" is an R&B song which lyrically refers to falling in love. Music critics generally complimented Beyoncé's vocals in the song and noted that it could have been included on her debut studio album, Dangerously in Love (2003). The song also charted on the US Billboard Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart in late 2003. The original version featuring P. Diddy and the remix version featuring Ghostface Killah peaked at number thirty-five and at number fifty-one respectively on the chart. Both versions charted for forty consecutive weeks. "Summertime" was part of Beyoncé's set list during the Dangerously in Love Tour (2003), and the Verizon Ladies First Tour (2004).

Background and composition
The song has two different themes. It primarily talks about the romance and later marriage between the film's two main characters Darrin (played by Cuba Gooding Jr.) and Lilly (played by Beyoncé), as well as subtly hinting at Beyoncé's real-life relationship with rapper Jay-Z. Darrin, a shallow New York advertising executive, traveled to a small town in the deep south upon receiving word that his aunt has died and left him a sizable inheritance. Once in town, Darrin is informed that he will only receive the money if he successfully leads a local gospel group to victory at an upcoming competition. Reluctant but strapped for cash, Darrin takes on the task of finding the best singers in town and shaping the group up. Along the way, he becomes acclimated to the town with the help of his cousin Lucius (played by Mike Epps) and meets Lilly, a single mother who not only possesses an incredible voice but also the ability to warm Darrin's cold heart. Although Gooding's character, Darrin, was in love with Beyoncé's character, Lilly, the latter did not always feel the same until later on in the film. Near the end of the film, he proposes to her and she accepts. They eventually get married (offscreen) and within eighteen months they had a baby son together, making Darrin a father and also stepfather to Lilly's other son.

"Summertime" was the only song which appeared on the soundtrack album of The Fighting Temptations but not in the movie itself. As a whole, seven tracks featured the vocals of Beyoncé. The latter has a starring role in the film, along with a choir made up of gospel, R&B and hip-hop recording artists. Faith Evans, Angie Stone, Melba Moore, Rev. Shirley Caesar, The O'Jays, Montell Jordan, T-Bone, and Zane are all seen on the film and perform on the soundtrack. "Summertime" was written by Beyoncé, Angela Beyincé, Sean Combs, Steven "Steven J." Jordan, Adonis Shropshire, Varick "Smitty" Smith and Mario Winans while production was handled by Winans and P. Diddy. Tim Sendra of Allmusic describes "Summertime" as an R&B "sweet love song" with lush sampled strings and acoustic guitars. The lyrics of the song do not reveal the film's plot, but they do tell that it has been a year since Darrin and Lilly met and they have gotten closer which could possibly be referring to their marriage. According to Dani Boobyer of the UK-based website The Situation, its lyrics make reference to "failing in love in the summer sun."

Release
During a string of soundtrack releases, Beyoncé commented on the song in an interview with Billboard and stated: "A lot of music was written especially for the film. At first I was concerned about the timing of the soundtrack, [because] my solo album was supposed to come out way before the movie. But then the solo album got delayed." While later announcing the release of the soundtrack album in a press release, Beyoncé said: "Once you hear the song ['Fighting Temptation'], and all the music in this film, you can't help but fall in love with it. You'll definitely get emotional. You might become happy or even sad, but your heart will get full. All the songs are touching and spiritual, and that's what the movie itself is like."

"Summertime" was issued as a 12" vinyl single in the United States by Columbia Records on October 28, 2003, and was later serviced to radio by the label. The original version of the song also served as the B-side to Beyoncé's debut solo lead single "Crazy in Love" (2003) in the UK and Australia. "Summertime" was additionally included on Beyoncé's 2005 mixtape Speak My Mind. The song was later referenced in Rochelle Alers's short story "Summer Madness", from the anthology Four Degrees of Heat (2004–07).

Reception
In a summer issue of Vibe, the song was included on a list of the top songs for a summer playlist. Research director Laura Checkoway reviewed the remix of the track and stated: "Ghost's game is tight." In an Amazon.com editorial review, Tom Keogh stated that the song "proves a breezy dance number." Tim Sendra of Allmusic wrote that "Summertime" features "a wonderful vocal from Beyoncé." He also considered that it would have made a perfect addition to her debut solo studio album, Dangerously in Love (2003). Dani Boobyer of The Situation commented that the song is "infectious" and that it ends the soundtrack album "on a smooth, laid-back high." Both the original version featuring P. Diddy and remix version featuring Ghostface Killah charted for forty weeks on the US Billboard Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Singles & Tracks. During the week of August 16, 2003 the remix featuring Ghostface Killah charted and peaked at number fifty-one. During the week of September 20, 2003 the original version charted at number thirty-five. The remix also charted at number eight on the US Billboard Bubbling Under Hot 100 Singles chart, which acts as a twenty five-song extension to the Billboard Hot 100. Q Magazine ranked it as the 999th greatest song ever.

Live performances
Although Beyoncé did not perform the song in any televised appearances, the song was a part of her set list on her tours. During the Verizon Ladies First Tour, which also featured Alicia Keys, Missy Elliott and Tamia, Beyoncé performed "Summertime" in New York in front of more than 20,000 fans. Shaheem Reid of MTV News commented that Beyoncé "stepped in the name of love" during the breakdown of the song. Beyoncé also sung "Summertime" with an interpolation of R. Kelly's "Step in the Name of Love" on her first solo tour Dangerously in Love Tour (2003) at the Wembley Arena in London, England. Beyoncé performed the song in a yellow summer-dress that was bedazzled in rhinestones across the upper breast area and around the bottom of the dress. The song, alongside its live version, was included on a live DVD/CD titled Live at Wembley. "Summertime" serves as the twelfth track of the live DVD. A performance of the remix of the song was included on the Jay-Z documentary Fade to Black (2004), which features Beyoncé performing with Ghostface Killah.

title: Summertime (Beyoncé song)


text:
Talk:Tantive IV

Chronological
I reorganized the page into a chronological format, putting the episode III information first, then the episode IV information. JesseG 00:29, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Data Block
I added a good pic of Tantive IV and a technical block about it too. I got half of my info from Star Wars: Databank and half of it from Star Wars: Vessels and Vehicles.
 * If anything is a bit wrong on there, which there isn't, please don't delete the whole thing cause it took me ages to do!

James Random - 15:32 (GMT)

Last Voyage
Are we sure about that? I could've swor I saw it in Return of the Jedi during the Alliance briefing. Einlanzer - 11:08am US central

I guess I'm right, as I saw on the SW databank it has it listed under Episode VI appearances.

 * Its not Tantive IV... its a Corellian Corvette, the class of ship the Tantive is a part of. -- saberwyn 11:19, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I just deleted that section because it is irrelevant to this article. Perhaps it's relevant to the Corellian Corvette article but not this one as it is not this ship. I was always under the assumption that the ship was simply destroyed. b_cubed 16:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

mister he is right the last battle is in episode 4 a new hope darth vader has id destroyed with a baroge of blaster fire information on this was found in teh book the new essential giude to vehicles and vessels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hippo145 (talk • contribs) 21:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Cultural impact
I have vague recollections of hearing multiple people in documentaries, retrospectives, etc. talking about being amazed and awed by the opening of A New Hope, when the tiny corvette is chased by the huge Star Destroyer. But, I'm drawing a blank on a specific recording or writing to cite. Can any of the, I dunno, six people ;-) who've got this page on their watchlist think of anything specific? Cross-posting to the WikiProject talk page. --EEMeltonIV 02:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Having just begun listening to the radio drama of Star Wars (which, until Disney's purchase of Lucasfilm was taken as "canon"), I note that the pronunciation of the ship's name is "TAN-tiv-ee". This is presumably an adaptation, by Lucas, of the English word "tantivy", which is a ride at a fast gallop. Someone more fluent in the International Phonetic Alphabet and its use on Wikipedia may be interested in inserting a pronunciation guide. --Dystopos (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I know Wikipedia standards used to be much less strict and people would just take your word for it, but can we get something that would help actually WP:VERIFY the claimed pronunciation? Surely Lucas or ILM mentioned the name of the ship in some behind the scenes footage? Maybe Kenner even? It seems implausible that Lucas would have written it as  if he had really intended it pronounced as tantivy or tantivee. The variant Tantive is also in the dictionary. There must be more contemporary examples out there of how the name of this ship was pronounced (sources that predate this Wikipedia article). -- 109.255.172.169 (talk) 02:20, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * A video clip posted to Twitter seems to confirm the pronunciation used in the radio drama. Whether or not you take that as gospel and believe continuity mistakes never happened under Lucasfilm and that pronunciation therefore must be "canon" is left as an exercise for the reader. -- 109.255.172.169 (talk) 03:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually all official spin-off audiobooks, etc., use this pronunciation, so it shouldn't be hard to verify. There's simply no other way to say it, except the way it looks (which is apparently incorrect). UpdateNerd (talk) 04:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * "so it shouldn't be hard to verify" thanks for volunteering, I hope you can easily find some official examples and post them soon. -- 109.255.172.169 (talk) 14:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Why? UpdateNerd (talk) 04:24, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930030400/http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/republiccruiser/?id=bts to http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/republiccruiser/?id=bts
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070928014432/http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/swallcards.pdf to http://www.decipher.com/starwars/cardlists/swallcards.pdf
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Notability and merge
Per Articles for deletion/Tantive IV (3rd nomination) and previous AfD, there are serious concerns this meets WP:FICTION/WP:GNG. In the end, Wookiepedia coverage of such fancruft topics is always superior, I think we should merge this to Articles for deletion/Tantive IV (3rd nomination).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:56, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose That discussion established that there was no consensus for merger let alone deletion of anything. WP:FICTION is an essay which also lacks consensus.  Persisting with this is disruptive  per WP:FORUMSHOP; WP:DELAFD; WP:STICK, &c.  The nominator appears to be here to promote the interests of Wookiepedia – a commercial website which exists to sell advertising and make profits for its shareholders.   If we were to delete or merge topics which are covered by other media and sites then we would have to close Wikipedia because everything here is supposed to be based on other sources.  Andrew D. (talk) 22:44, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Support merge The list needs to be reformatted, of course (38 level 1 headings on mostly one-line entries is ridiculous), but that's not a matter for this talk page; apart from that, I see no reason why this content couldn't be merged. It should be noted that Andrew Davidson's above comment consists almost entirely of ad hominem attacks on Piotrus, and does not present a coherent argument in favour of keeping this as a separate article. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 05:56, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I should also point out that That discussion established that there was no consensus for merger is a misrepresentation of that discussion AFD is not the place to discuss mergers, and so the lack of consensus for a merger being established at AFD doesn't mean there wouldn't be consensus for such at the proper forum. "Merge" was an alternate proposal alluded to by some of those who opposed deletion, but others did not explicitly support or oppose it, hence "no consensus for a merge". Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 09:34, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Oppose We've already been through this in the AFD, no sense repeating it here. There is no consensus to delete/merge this article.  Not much if anything would be merged over.  There is enough coverage to justify its own article.   D r e a m Focus  13:39, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose Please refer to the AFD. There is not a consensus. Lightburst (talk) 16:06, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose See Articles for deletion/Tantive IV, Articles for deletion/Tantive IV (2nd nomination), Articles for deletion/Tantive IV (3rd nomination) for reasons cited there. New forum, new form; old story. Old wine in new bottles.  Same result. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:02, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge per above remarks and AFD discussion. — Hunter Kahn 00:56, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support merge, and content should probably be merged to multiple articles as appropriate: e.g., List of Star Wars spacecraft, Rogue One, Star Wars (film). This not even an important ship in the Star Wars universe–not like the Millennium Falcon or a TIE fighter. The no consensus AfD close doesn't mean "there's consensus it's notable", it means there's no consensus as to whether it's notable or not – i.e., notability is borderline. You can see it in the paucity of actual reliable sources treating the subject in-depth (compare with Millennium Falcon, which has sources like  ). Most of the sources for Tantive IV appear to be advertisements for models, games and toys. Having an article about this minor fictional vehicle with this much in-depth treatment strikes me as "fancruft" with a touch of promo. It reminds me of the classic Pokemon debates. We shouldn't have a separate article for every Star Wars vehicle just like we shouldn't have an article for every Pokemon, even if there are enough sources out there to do it. I guess WP:NOTTRIVIA would be the policy to cite? – Levivich  21:34, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Comment- if the Colonel wants to accuse people of secretly shilling for a commercial website he needs to provide proof of that accusation or retract it. Reyk YO! 07:43, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Support- Despite the vehement claims of some of the other participants, a no consensus result at AfD is not the same as consensus to keep, it is not an endorsement of the content as it stands, and it definitely doesn't block further changes to it. The case made for merging the content with other Star Wars articles is better than the case for a badly sourced, crufty stand-alone article. Reyk YO! 07:43, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tantive IV


text:
Talk:Alonso de Arellano

Magellan
I thought Magellan was the disoverer of the Philippines??--Jondel 00:29, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. I think you're right. Well. I'm actually no expert on this subject, I was sort of inferring based on my sources. Perhaps what Arellano discovered was not the Philippines themselves, but the sea route from them back to Mexico. That would make more sense. Either that, or he discovered some Philippine Islands which Magellan had not yet set foot on. Remember, Magellan was eaten by the Filipinos, and thus did not return to speak of his discovery... LordAmeth 14:11, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Eaten? Wow! I think you should check your sources.Killed maybe. I've never heard of canibalism in the Philippines. In the Spanish version, I put discovered the Philippines for practical purposes. I can correct this. (I translated this to Spanish)--Jondel 23:29, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alonso de Arellano


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blaster Pistol

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was redirect to Blaster (weapon). Sjakkalle (Check!)  13:52, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Blaster Pistol
This is pretty much useless. There's already a more comprehensive treatment on the subject on the List of Star Wars weapons page. It'd make more sense to just delete the page and replace it with a redirect to that article. After all, listing every single weapon type in the Star Wars universe in its own entry doesn't make a lot of sense; lightsabers are the obvious exception, but in general, they really don't need individual attention. -- Captain Disdain 00:29, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and merge/delete. ··gracefool |☺ 01:55, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Redirect to Blaster (weapon) Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd 02:17, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect as per Andrew. I'm saddened that Captain Disdain thinks that George Lucas invented blasters! Isaac R 03:44, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Er, no, I don't. It's just that if you read the article -- what little there is -- it's kind of obvious that the entry is specifically about Star Wars blaster pistols, not blasters in the more generic sense. In any case, that's a fine redirect in my book. -- Captain Disdain 09:56, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, shouldn't have doubted your SF literacy. Still, when we talk about an article, I think it's important that we use as general a context as we can. So if somebody submits an article that assumes that SF == Star Wars, we're not bound by that assumption. Isaac R 19:03, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it -- like I said, it's a fine redirect in my book. I just didn't think about it beyond "this is a useless Star Wars article, should probably point to the more relevant Star Wars article". Obviously, redirecting it to Blaster (weapon) makes much more sense. -- Captain Disdain 21:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect as per Andrew. Double Blue  (Talk) 03:48, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Blaster (weapon). Megan1967 10:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Blaster (weapon), while the article is mostly about SW Blaster pistol is too generic to simply direct to a SW article. -- Lochaber 13:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Blaster (weapon), per Andrew Lenahan. Nothing new to merge anywhere. -- BD2412 talk 17:17, 2005 May 31 (UTC)
 * Redirect per Starblind — RJH 19:59, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Leyden jar

The dissectible Leyden jar
I believe this is a myth and should be rewritten. - Omegatron 00:29, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

See Talk:Capacitor

Proposed fix:

I have posted a rewrite of this section. - Omegatron 19:46, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * This whole section is not very good at all. Its poorly explained and not very well written. --Deglr6328 07:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It's been a while since Nov 05, but I have to say this section is still rather poorly written. After reading it through several times, it appears to be saying, "A: There is a myth that you can disassemble a Leyden jar and touch the individual parts without discharging the stored charge, which of course is not true, but B: Ben Franklin did this and so can you if you are careful, so C: You have to carefully word your description of this procedure so that people will understand the difference between the fact that this is not true and the fact that it is." Unfortunately this section does not carefully explain it, and the reader is left wondering what exactly is being discussed, and what the original author intended by the use of the term, "myth." (Also, no previous mention has been made in the article about "plastic cups". Is this a reference to contemporary versions of the Leyden jar?) Darentig 15:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to try and harp on this too much, but the charge is stored within the dielectric. If you do the math on any capacitor and using the Poynting Vector will show that the actually energy is stored within the dielectric. You can get charge on the plates, but ultimately the dielectric is where the real energy is. This happens from the stretching effect of applying an electric field around an atom, the larger it can stretch, the better the dielectric is. I'd suggest removing this section because its mis-leading on how a capacitor works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.33.47.225 (talk) 00:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

 * The energy is stored in the electric field and polarization of the dielectric between the plates, as you say. The charge is stored on the plates.  -- Chetvorno TALK 04:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I suggest that you view this fantastic demonstration of a jar disassembled and reassembled....the charge is still there. Look at episode 11. http://www.abc.net.au/science/features/whyisitso/default.htm

 * Another link showing the dissection, for the interested: MIT Physics Demo -- Dissectible Capacitor (youtube). Nanite (talk) 18:55, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Water?
''Benjamin Franklin investigated the Leyden jar, and proved that the charge was stored on the glass, not in the water as others had assumed. Originally, the units of capacitance were in 'jars' and a jar is equivalent to about 1 nF''

 * What water? The description above says that the jars are coated with foil inside and out.  No mention of filling it with water anywhere else in the article.  Also, don't we say two sections below that the charge is stored on the foil, not the glass? — Omegatron 21:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Water was used by Kleist and by Musschenbroek. According to Helibron, it was Watson acting on a suggestion from John Bevis that "first armed the bottom of his bottle with thin lead sheets." [Heilbron, 1979, p. 317]  But by the time that Franklin received one of the jars from Collinson, the electricians were already using metal foil on either side of the glass. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karxpava (talk • contribs) 20:17, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I believe Ben had water inside the jar according to the capacitor page. THis of course could be wrong! We say I think that the charge is stored on the surface of the glass (which also happens to be the foil - yes?) 8-| --Light current 01:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

THe suspicious edit to the capacitor page (re water) was made on the 18 Aug 2005. I cant get to the history of that page around that time to see who added it. I hope it wasnt me! 8-|--Light current 01:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Kleist sometimes had water in the jar and his hand was the outer plate.Edison 02:32, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I've removed the sentence as it conflicts with our own description of the charge being stored on the conductors. — Omegatron 03:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

 * You probably need to alter the capacitor page to line up with this one now. 8-)--Light current 12:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Remove 'Circuit theory' section?
I think the section on 'displacement current' should be removed. It is covered almost word for word in Capacitor which is the appropriate place for it, since most of the traditional applications for the Leyden jar deal with electrostatics and don't involve displacement current. Also, the article includes none of the foundation of circuit theory and Maxwell's equations needed to make the paragraph comprehensible to nontechnical readers. Unless someone comes up with a specific connection between Maxwell and Leyden jars, I am going to remove it. -- Chetvorno TALK 07:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Done -- Chetvorno TALK 14:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Leyden?
I'm Dutch, and the city is spelled "Leiden", not "Leyden". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.211.36.205 (talk) 14:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

In English the most common name is Leyden, used in all the history of this device. 146.164.26.90 (talk) 15:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree that the city's name should be spelled correctly, it should be 'Leiden' and not some arbitrary English version of it.Abiermans (talk) 06:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 * WP:NAME says that the article name should be what the greatest number of English speakers would recognise, and I believe most widespread usage is 'Leyden jar'. However, 'Leiden jar' is also used, and could be included in the first sentence as an alternate name. -- Chetvorno TALK 19:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Added 'Leiden jar' to lead sentence as alternate name. -- Chetvorno TALK 19:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Another problem is the derivitation(misspelled?) of the name Leyden. I mean here it says it comes from the university http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor#History but in this article the name of the city is used for the origin of the name Leyden jar. Which is right?--Leonardo Da Vinci (talk) 08:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Not a misspelling, just an outdated spelling. Leyden, along with its variants Leijden and Lyden, is an old spelling of the name of that city. It was changed to the modern spelling Leiden somewhere around 1885 to follow standard dutch orthography. Apparently the new spelling didn't propagate into english. And in case you're wondering, I'm dutch too. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:52, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Battery (of Leyden jars) Invented by?
Was "Battery" (of Leyden jars) invented by Benjamin Franklin or Daniel Gralath? (It was named by Franklin)

Heilbron says that Gralath first connected the jars in parallel and called it a battery. [Heilbron, 1979. p 317] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karxpava (talk • contribs) 20:19, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Inconsistency
The information in the article is not clear. According to the article the 'Leiden jar' was invented:

in 1745 by Pieter van Musschenbroek, in 1745 by Ewald Georg von Kleist, in 1746 by Pieter van Musschenbroek.

Is it really not established who gets the credit for this invention or is it just sloppy writing?Abiermans (talk) 06:23, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Von Kleist communicated on his discovery with a member of the German scientific community on November 4, 1745 (Dr. Lieberkühn, who communicated it to the Academy of Berlin) before Van Musschenbroeck, contrarily to what is written in the article. He discovered its effect on October 11, 1745. Van Musschenbroeck discovered it independently at a (to me) unknown date before he communicated it in a letter to the French scientific community (Réaumur and abbot Nollet) in January 1846.
 * After that, Abbé Nollet communicated and experimented on it with a broader community (180 people in the presence of the French king Louis XV). So it's the French original denomination "Leyden jar" rather than the German "Kleistian jar" or "Kammin jar" that passed to the posterity. Arjen Dijksman (talk) 14:53, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Just coming from Kleist article, where the year is 1745, this article states van Musschenbroek invented it 1744. No sources are given. Something is wrong, somewhere. --95.88.220.12 (talk) 10:51, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Electricity in the 17th and 18th Centuries: A Study of Early Modern Physics. Heilbron p300-323 has much on Kliests discovery (and failed attempts to communicate the design and operation) of the jar. - Rod57 (talk) 14:08, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

question
how was the electricity generated in a leyden jar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barrelofoil (talk • contribs) 16:49, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * As the 'Description' section says, it was charged by an electrostatic generator. Perhaps it should be made more clear that the Leyden jar didn't generate its own electricity, since the water-filled ones resemble a liquid battery. -- Chetvorno TALK 19:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Reference 5 is wrong
reference 5: Letter IV: Benjamin Franklin to Peter Collinson, April 29, 1749 (Bigelow vol II p. 237-253)

This is an indirect reference to

BIGELOW, John (editor). The complete works of Benjamin Franklin, vol II, 1744-1757. p 121, LXI To Peter Colinson, Philadelphia, 1748. New York: G. P. Putnans’s Sons, 1887. Available at: .

as you may see at page 121-137 the excerpts are incorrectly referenced. indirect citations are not recomended. I think it should be replaced by the direct reference to the letter in this link.

Agranero (talk) 05:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

comparison to modern capacitors
From what I've read, a Leyden jar had a voltage rating somewhere in the >10kV or more range, with a capacitance around 0.1 to 1 nF, although at the moment I can't find a good citation. In other words the maximum stored energy was of order 0.01 J to 1 J. It's interesting to compare to modern capacitors of similar rating (example 2). So, a modern capacitor might be one to two inches on a side, but cost ~$50. It's interesting because this means that for a hobbyist it would make sense to build one's own high voltage capacitors, which is definitely something not practical to do with low voltage capacitors. This sort of comparison could be nice to include in the article though I'm not sure how to phrase it at the moment. Nanite (talk) 11:11, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

 * That's interesting. I've heard some Tesla coil nerds build glass capacitors for their units, although the ones I've seen consist of stacks of flat glass sheets with sheet metal plates between them.  Leyden jars were widely used in spark-gap radio transmitters, the first radio transmitters around the turn of the century, which were essentially powerful Tesla coils.  However you might not want to use a plain jar; early sources said Leyden jars in transmitters sometimes exploded, probably due to heating from dielectric permittivity.   Leyden jars in transmitters were specially constructed with thicker glass at the mouth, where the electric field stresses and corona leakage were concentrated. -- Chetvorno TALK 12:40, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

The discussion of how Leyden Jars work (exactly as modern capacitors do) really should have a reference to Michael Faraday. It was he, NOT Franklin, that discovered how a Leyden Jar worked. It was his friend, the classicist William Whewell, who suggested the term "dielectric". Faraday constructed a variable capacitor in which he could change out the dielectric material. Karxpava (talk) 20:42, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Progression of Technology
This article is thorough and complete for the most part but I feel that it would benefit from several things. First off I feel that a section dedicated to comparing the original design and effectiveness to current examples of capacitors and batteries would help readers grasp how far the technology has come as well as provide a tangible visual example of the principles that we often take for granted. Additionally I feel that this article may benefit from more specific references to dates rather than general time periods as this was a device that was invented and thus developed independently by two different individuals. The term "around" when referring to time is much to general and can lead to unnecessary ambiguity.Down6263 (talk) 17:20, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

What is the max charge?
What is the max charge that a (avrage?) Leyden Jar can store? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.233.0.184 (talk) 21:49, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Good question, maybe that should be in the article.  As mentioned, a typical pint jar had a capacitance C of 1 nF.  The voltage V you can put on a jar is limited by the gap between the outside foil and the center electrode; if the voltage was too high it would arc over.  That's the reason many jars had foil only halfway up the side.   The dielectric strength of air is about 30,000 volts per inch, so if the gap between the foil and electrode was 2 inches the jar could stand a voltage of 60,000 volts, and at that voltage the charge would be
 * $$Q = CV = 6 \times 10^{-6} \text{coulomb}$$
 * In contrast, they now have small supercapacitors which have capacitances of 1000 farads at 1 volt, which could thus store 1000 coulombs.

 * Some early spark-gap transmitters had banks of hundreds of large 5 foot high jars in parallel to store an enormous charge, which was discharged through a spark gap into the tuned circuit to create powerful radio waves. -- Chetvorno TALK 00:10, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

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Musschenbroek and Cunaeus
The account about Cunaeus, described by Heilbron, indicates that Cunaeus succeeded (link should go to the relevant page) -- in contrast to what is written in the present article. Also, Heilbron suggests that Cunaeus achieved this alone -- and then came to tell about this to Musschenbroek (who refined the technique). This story is also confirmed in Nollet's published account, where he tells in a footnote that he received a letter from Allamand about Cunaeus and his role. And Heilbron cites additional sources to support his account. I am telling all this because I have put links to the Heilbron and Nollet sources in the article, but I am not going to try to repair the text -- because there are other claims that are not in Heilbron, and I do not how to evaluate them. Sdc870 (talk) 01:26, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The article says he couldn't make it work with a glass of beer, not that he couldn't make it work period. But the claim is uncited. SpinningSpark 07:34, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Good solutions. Also good that Allamand gets into the story. Will be curious to see the source that supports the "beer" interpretation. There is one other part of the story that also seems important to work in.  Cunaeus's "success" appears to have been achieved by ignorant accident.  (This is the point about the "Rule of Dufay" in Heilbron's discussion. Usually the glass container is insulated. Cunaeus "succeeded" because he did not insulate the glass (because he did not know that this was considered the "standard procedure"). Sdc870 (talk) 11:43, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure we shouldn't just delete the claim about the beer. Maybe someone got confused with Allamand, who I see in several sources used a beer glass. SpinningSpark 14:04, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * who wrote this passage. Can you provide your source please? SpinningSpark 14:15, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Good account of Cunaeus' "mistake". Have also seen "beer glass"  (but not "beer") so your hypothesis is plausible. Will be interesting to see if your query brings any response. Have seen a lot of accounts of this event recently, some of them discussing oil, wine spirits, but none with beer.   Sdc870 (talk) 06:46, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Structuring of the Article
I introduced a "further developments" section -- to separate the events that did not involve Musschenbroek and Cunaeus. But I can see now that the "Design" section also has "further developments". Probably there is a sensible solution for how to organise and integrate these parts. For example, the current "further developments" is actually focused mostly on connecting multiple Leyden jars. Similarly, the section on "Storage of charge" was more about the historical development of explanations -- so I introduced some sections that seem meaningful. But probably more or other steps are needed. Sdc870 (talk) 16:25, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I suggest we add something about Dalibard's experiment (proposed by Franklin) at Marly-la-Ville -- wherein lightning was collected in a Leyden Jar. and the subsequent death of Georg Wilhelm Richmann in a similar experiment. and perhaps a new section on Faraday & his discovery of the principle of a dielectric. Karxpava (talk) 19:17, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Changes to introduction
You have added some good content to the article, but I feel your edit to the introduction introduced some inaccuracies which will mislead nontechnical readers:
 * Thanks for feedback. Happy for your advice and assistance to try to untangle the problems.

 * "It was an early type of capacitor, originally known as a kind of condenser." It was not an early type of capacitor, it was the first type of capacitor. And although the term "condensing" was used to describe what it did, it was not originally known as a condenser; the term "condenser" came into use later, when other forms beside the jar began to be used, requiring a new name.
 * : (will take "first capacitor question in next paragraph). I am not responsible for that fragment "(originally known as a "condenser")." That has been there long before I started on this article. But I am with you on this point. Volta is usually cited as the origin of this term (around 1782, if I remember correctly). I was planning to try to work that in (given that "capacitor" does not appear until 1925 or 1926). I would be more than happy if you wanted to handle this issue.

 * "The Leyden jar is often considered the first form of capacitor..." The Leyden jar was the first form of capacitor, according to numerous sources,  including your own; this sentence implies that there is a difference of opinion.
 * : This problem arises from trying to be "faithful" to the "sources" (which I understand is a Wikipedia policy). The source that I cited says "early type" and I saw some others that also used that kind of expression, so I tried to preserve the nuance. I agree/would prefer to write "first capacitor" and there are different sources that could be used, such as your Dictionary. By the way, the first source that you cite "Drummer" -- actually refers to the Darnell article that I cited. I figured it was better to cite the actual source that Drummer cites. But then I was surprised to see that Darnell does not actually say anything about the "first". So -- I guess it is Drummer's assertion (without supporting sources). Anyway -- I am happy to just assert "first" (with supporting sources), and ignore the sources that say "early".  (I do not think there is a real difference of opinion here -- probably just some authors who were uncertain, so hedged their bets with "early").

 * "The Leyden jar is... considered the first form of capacitor, because it operates on the same principle as miniature glass dielectric capacitors produced 200 years later." It is considered the first form of capacitor because it operates on the same principle as all capacitors.  Your source says that modern glass dielectric capacitors have similar construction to the Leyden jar, but that is not why the Leyden jar is considered the first form of capacitor.
 * I think you are raising two points here. (a) about "all":  Maybe I have misunderstood Darnell, which I read to imply that semiconductor diodes operate on a different principle, (b) about "first":  the 200 years was not meant to support the "first" claim -- but only to show that its principle of operation has continued to be used.  I do not think we are disagreeing about the "content" that should be in the text. I have only tried to remain faithful to the sources that I have. Probably you have better sources, in which case, please make appropriate adjustments.  Sdc870 (talk) 09:51, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

--ChetvornoTALK 08:40, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

There is one more change that should also be considered in the lead section -- which seems appropriate. The first versions (i.e, from Kleist, Gralath, Winckler, Musschenbroek) used a liquid, usually water, mercury or alcohol, as the inner conductor. It seems misleading to only indicate metal foil on inside and outside. I am more than happy if someone could address that point in the lead. Sdc870 (talk) 10:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * My feeling is that is not really necessary. The adjoining picture shows a liquid Leyden jar, and the caption says that was the first form. The liquid jars were a transitional form which is long gone.  The modern meaning of a Leyden jar (which are still sold and used for teaching electrostatics) is a jar with foil electrodes.  The majority of readers coming to this page are going to be school children doing science homework, and that is the kind of Leyden jar they are going to be interested in. --ChetvornoTALK 10:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

See Also See Also See Als...
It looks like there's a recursive See Also entry (presumably due to a topic merge or other restructuring), as the Leiden accumulator link points to an alias that leads right back to this article. I'm not sure what it was originally referring to - whether it referring to something that eventually got folded into this article (although there's no explicit reference to it as an "accumulator") - in which case it could presumably be deleted - or if a Leiden Accumulator is actually a separate but related topic that still deserves a separate mention. 71.234.116.22 (talk) 21:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * My bad. I recently merged the stub Leiden accumulator into this page. I guess I missed that link. I deleted it.  Thanks for catching that 71.234.116.22! --ChetvornoTALK 23:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Leyden jar


text:
Paul Ernster

Paul T. Ernster (born January 26, 1982) is a former American football punter. He was drafted by the Denver Broncos in the seventh round of the 2005 NFL Draft. He played college football in Northern Arizona.

Ernster has also been a member of the Cleveland Browns, Detroit Lions and Pittsburgh Steelers.

Early years
Ernster was born in Phoenix, Arizona. He attended Ironwood High School in Glendale, Arizona, where he was a two-year letterman in both football and baseball. In football, he was an All-State kicker, he won All-Region honors as a linebacker, kicker, and punter, and was a two-time special teams Most Valuable Player award winner, and was the Defensive MVP as a senior.

College career
Ernster attended Northern Arizona University, and was a kicker, until punting his senior year. As a senior punter, he led the NCAA Division I-AA level, and the nation in average yards per punt, averaging 47.8 yards per punt. During his career at Northern Arizona University, he was a three-time All-Big Sky Conference All-Academics selection, a consensus All-American punter pick as a senior, and he finished his college career with 213 points, which ranks third in school history. As a kicker, he made 39 out of 65 field goal attempts, and 96 out of 100 PATs attempted.

Denver Broncos
Ernster was drafted by the Denver Broncos in the seventh round of the 2005 NFL Draft. He was their punter for two years, and was documented in A Few Seconds of Panic. After replacing Todd Sauerbrun in 2006, Ernster led the NFL in kickoff distance and was third in touchbacks. However, out of 32 punters with at least 40 punts, Ernster finished 28th with a gross average of 41.7 yards.

Detroit Lions
On April 11, 2008, Ernster was signed by the Detroit Lions. He was waived on July 29.

Pittsburgh Steelers
Ernster was claimed off waivers by the Pittsburgh Steelers on July 29, 2008, after punter Daniel Sepulveda tore his ACL. However, he was cut prior to the regular season. He was re-signed by the Steelers on November 5 after the team released punter Mitch Berger. The Steelers released Ernster and re-signed Berger on November 24 after Ernster turned in three below average performances, averaging just 31.3 yards a punt.

title: Paul Ernster


text:
Category:London Post Office Railway rolling stock

Rolling stock of the London Post Office Railway.


text:
Itching ears

Itching ears is a term used in 2 Timothy 4 of the Christian Bible to describe individuals who seek out messages and doctrines that condone their own lifestyle, as opposed to adhering to the teachings of the apostles. The quote is:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Greek context
The phrase from which itching ears originates in the original Greek is κνηθόμενοι τὴν ἀκοήν (knēthomenoi tēn akoēn). κνηθόμενοι, the translation for having an itching ear, is a present participle, signifying a present, continual action occurring.

ἀκοήν translates to ear, or a sense of hearing. The use of ἀκοήν is often regarding an inner spiritual hearing. In, ἀκοὴ (Greek root) is used as the act of hearing, and is described as an action caused by faith (πίστις).

Paul continues in chapter 4 verse 3 by describing a time when people will not listen to sound doctrine. Paul uses the phrase for a time will come (ἔσται) which translates more closely to there will be. ἔσται is a third person indicative verb in the future tense, which signifies a warning for Timothy that the Church of Christ on earth will not change for the better.

Paul's purpose
Paul describes the future that Timothy will face, where people would not endure sound doctrine, and instead heap to themselves teachers in order to satisfy their itching ears. Albert Barnes writes on this subject:

"The apostle here says, that by turning away from Timothy, and from sound instruction, they would not abandon all religious teachers, but would rather increase and multiply them."

Paul warns Timothy about a future apostasy in which the lusts of people would drive them away from Apostolic teaching, which Timothy belonged to. Charles Ellicott suggests a motive for doing so: "These worldly ones to whom St. Paul referred, reluctant to part with the hope Christianity taught, and unwilling to live the life which St. Paul and Timothy insisted upon as necessary to be lived by all those who would share in that glorious hope, sought out for themselves more indulgent teachers, who would flatter and gratify their hearers with novelties in doctrine, and would, at the same time, lay comparatively little stress on the pure and saintly life."

Paul's analogy
Paul uses the analogy of having an itching ear to show that pupils, not the teachers are the ones seeking doctrine aside from Apostolic teaching. Matthew Poole describes the cause and effect of an itching ear: "their ears itch, and they must have those that will scratch them. The disease of lust in their souls brings forth an itch in their ears, that they will have a mind to hear only such as will by scratching please them."

In chapter 4 verse 4, Paul writes: "2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV)"

Paul uses the word fables (μύθους) to describe the remedy that people seek in order to scratch their itching ears.

However, Paul continues to fulfill the analogy in chapter 4 verse 5 by contrasting Timothy's ministry from these fables. Paul calls Timothy to do the work of an evangelist by winning back those who sought fables, through preaching "the great facts of the Gospel placed side by side with the fables of the false teachers."

title: Itching ears


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Enterux

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 03:37, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Enterux
It's an ad. I'm not sure it's a notable company. (And it's probably a copyvio of the page at www.enterux.com/en/about) RJFJR 00:34, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Deleted as a copyright violation --Duk 20:27, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * It is a copyvio. Listed it as one. For the record, delete. Hedley 00:54, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. NeoJustin 03:05 May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Copyvio spam drini ☎ 05:54, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete UkPaolo 16:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Enterux