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Talk:Quidditch

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 April 2021 and 21 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ShaneRollins3. Peer reviewers: KenG732, NatalieV10.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Boxes
I made a minor edit to the section about the 'top box' being similar to the 'front row' at muggle events. It's more likely that this was based on the corporate and private boxes found around football and rugby stadiums in the UK (and Europe). Front row seats aren't really that prestigious at UK sporting events of a similar nature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.6.149.27 (talk) 13:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Break off into new article suggestion
This article, though not marked, most definitely falls into the class of articles that are written in an in-universe style. That said, I think I am going to make the suggestion that this article be broken off into two articles, perhaps one Quidditch (Harry Potter) and the other Quidditch (sport). I say this only because Quidditch is now not only played by muggles everywhere, but is even a division sport played intercollegiately, with its own set of roles(NCAA regulated? probably not) apparently. Obviously the rules are different for that variant since the players don't fly, and the snitch is a person who runs around. I am not making this change but merely suggesting it to see what other editors think. Slugmaster (talk) 17:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
 * i agree with your assessment, and have tagged to article to invite comment. --emerson7 01:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the description of a top box as being like a front row seat very wrong. A top box in Quidditch is just like a center box in muggle sports. (for those who don't know, a box is a glass square above most seats that incircle the field.) Those who are seated in a box get free food and other luxuries. The boxes are also much more expensive. in Harry potter, the box does not have glass but is the exact same otherwise.

Dates for players + James Potter
I think most of these dates should be removed. An assumption seems to have been made that any character who was on a Quidditch team when Harry came to the school had been so since they had entered Hogwarts. This is despite Harry being told it is very unusual for a first year to get on the house team, and despite us seeing people much older than their first year join the teams in the last two books.

Unless there's a canon source for this information that I've missed?

Also, James Potter is listed as a Seeker. This information is from the first movie, but it does not apply to the books. In an interview in 2000, Rowling confirmed that he was a Chaser. Philip Reuben 03:16, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Could you give a list of all the games mentioned in the 6 books: houses, final score, players (where given) and notable occurances? Thanks, David Freitag
 * Please sign your posts by striking the tilde key four times. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 23:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Anti-gravity claims
Hi all,

Periodically, there's this claim about anti-gravity technology. It was deleted by 3 other users and is against, I think, the WP:NOT policy. I'll treat it as vandalism from now on. Hit me up on my talk page if you think it's wrong. Tony 19:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Bowman Wright
WHY didn't you include Bowman Wright? He was featured as Wizard of the month at J.K. ROWLING'S OFFICIAL site. He created the golden snitch. Can someone please add him there?!? -Lil_Flip246

 * Why didn't WHO do WHAT? You realize of course you could have added this information yourself at any time, right?

 * I added a note about it anyway, but I was seriously considering NOT adding it, precisely because anyone can edit Wikipedia, and complaining about what is or is not in an article, and then not adding it yourself when it's a fairly minor addition to boot, well that's just plain silly. Runa27 04:37, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Critcism
I think there should be a section added that discusses the criticism JK Rowling receives about the potentially flawed scoring system in quidditch- if you catch the snitch you almost always win, therefore making the other players in the game completely pointless

I came here wondering if there was any such mention. It really is a terrible scoring system. Bakert 13:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought I was the only one who noticed that. Maybe someone should add a section, if people have actually pointed out the inanity in a formal way (so as to avoid the whole OR thing)86.147.117.234 17:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

 * While the scoring by other players often isn't a factor who wins individual games, it is important to who wins tournaments. Gryffindor won the Quidditch cup on total points, not most games won, all three times that they won it during Harry's years in Hogwarts. Don Sample 05:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I had always assumed that the matches portrayed in the books were unusually low-scoring. (Perhaps because of Potter's exceptional ability.)
 * If scores routinely go into the several hundreds then the rest of the game matters a lot.
 * The snitch would still be caught mostly by the winning team, however, since no seeker in his right mind would end the game if the scores didn't add up in his favor. I suppose if you were losing by more than 250pts and you spotted the snitch, the winning strategy would be to distract the other seaker away from it somehow. APL (talk) 18:33, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

 * I see the explanation that games are played in series and scored by total points rather than wins. This only blunts the problem a bit, however.  Then the scores posted by all the rest of the players may have a 10-20% effect on the overall season score rather than 0%.  In effect, the whole rest of the game only functions as a tie breaker.  Further, scoring by total points also introduces other probably unintended effects.  For instance, the failure of one weak team during one game could make a situation where the opposing team is able to score a virtually unlimited number of points.  After all, fallen players are not normally replaced.  So just knock out most of the other team's players including their seeker, and then just don't catch the snitch until your team has scored as many points as you'd like to have.  I love the Harry Potter series, but it seems pretty clear that the author has little understanding of ball sports and didn't really think it all the way through.  Quidditch appears to have been designed for literary purposes to emphasize the importance of a single player on the team, who would of course be Harry Potter. 98.248.74.209 (talk) 17:41, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you know what would be cool? Through wires, mirrors or some other special effect is have a Quidditch game at the Opening Ceremonies in London in 2012. Or better Yet, re-enact the Quidditch World cup which was cut from the movie. The Harry potter Fans would go nuts!

Yes, the Quidditch World Cup from Goblet of Fire could be a full-length feature film all by itself. It could be done entirely with computer animation, so there would be no need to employ the film's actors. Das Baz, 15 April 2006, 3:53 PM.

You lnow, I bet that quidditch could be made into a real sport now. I mean, if people can make flying saucers now, I bet we could make flying broomsticks... or something like them. Wouldn't it be awesome if in a few years you could say, "Oh yeah, I'm on a high school quidditch team." Cool idea...      69.19.14.15 (talk) 03:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)  Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Fictional
Its really not that fictional any more now that theres a video game. That'd be like saying Halo is a fictional game. savidan(talk) (e@) 00:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC) --Numberwang 15:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's still fictional. A video game representation doesn't make it real (except once in a while). -- RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib Reverts 21:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * What are you smoking man. Halo is fiction, while game itself its real everything inside of its its fake. Covenant are fictional for example.
 * yeah but halo is not a fictional game. an example of a fictional game would be Dudleys playstation game "Mega-Mutilation Part Three" (mentioned in goblet of fire in harrys letter to sirius)
 * (semi-sarcasm) I'm surprised someone hasn't actually created that game. (yet..) Or has someone and I just missed it in my cursory Google search? Jimw338 (talk) 14:57, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Harry
Has Harry ever played three matches in a school year? Rmhermen 04:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

in Poa he does.

Youngest in a century vs. only first year in a century
Page 152, paperback Sorceror's Stone, about halfway down:

Seeker? [Ron] said. "But first years never—you must be the youngest house player in about—" "—a century," said Harry.

Ron does NOT say "You must be the only first year", he says "you must be the youngest", meaning there may have been other first year Quidditch players over the years, but none as young as Harry. Unless it is mentioned elsewhere and I have missed it, saying he's the only first year in a century cannot be verified.

E946 02:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Besides, Ron saying it doesn't make it true. VdSV9• ♫ 20:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Check your fiction
Some parts of this article, especially history, tend to blur the fictional Harry Potter world with the real world. Please read Manual of Style (writing about fiction). Thanks, --EngineerScotty 04:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Middlebury College
Removed from article. Unsourced. Possibly unnotable. At Middlebury College in Middlebury, Vermont Quidditch exists as a pick up sport with matches Sundays at noon. The players are required to wear capes, usually blankets or towels, and while playing they must also have a broom stick between their legs at all times. The game, for obvious reason, has been adapted: the snitch is a cross country player dressed all in yellow and one must grab the sock ball attached to their back and the capture of the snitch only earns 50 points (for practicallity); the quaffle is a volley ball; the bludgers are dodgeballs that the bludgers throw at the opposite team's players (when hit the player must drop the quaffle, if they have it, and they must stand still for five seconds); and the hoops are hoola hoops taped to chairs instead of 50 feet in the air. -- Ec5618 22:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

What's this nonsense?
''Possibly the best way for a death to happen is fatal cheating, especially with spells and flying creatures. Harry Potter constantly experienced this during his Quidditch matches at Hogwarts.''

Firstly, what does it even mean, "the best way for a death to happen"? Secondly, POV. Thirdly, the way it's worded makes it sound like Harry Potter constantly experienced deaths during his Quidditch matches!!! 84.70.0.193
 * I would suggest you just make the changes. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 14:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Translations.
It's interesting to have all (or most of the) translations here. We could include, of course, seeker, beater, chaser and keeper to the list... All I know is in portuguese:

Apanhador, batedor, artilheiro and goleiro.

VdSV9• ♫ 20:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Regional teams
What are the sources for the names of Regional teams outside of the UK? These should all have sources. I deleted one team, that was added a week ago, that had an offensive name. Tuyvan 20:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Towers or tribunes?
The article says the quidditch pit at hogwarts has towers for spectators, but nothing of this is mentioned in the books. Furthermore, events like the one described in the first book, atthe first match, suggest ongoing tribunes, not towers. How else would Hermione be able to quickly run around to Quirrels place? - Redmess 11:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

In-Universe
5 out of the 7 major sections are entirely in-universe. Much of the intro is in-universe. I believe this article qualifies being labeled "primarily in-universe". Neitherday 15:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Game Sports
Why is there a category box for game sports at the end, this is fiction?

International Quidditch Teams
G'day everyone, In the paragraph about international Quidditch teams, there are teams that have been mentioned in the Harry Potter books, films and games, but there are many national sides that having been placed on seeminly at random, as there is no evidence from the books, films, or games the these national teams exist. For example; Albania, this country is not even mentioned in any of the books, and yet it is still said to have a Quidditch team. There are many more like this, and I was wondering how the writer(s) managed to work out which un-mentioned countries had Quidditch teams. Thanks, Furry9 12:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually, Albania is mentioned several times and is very important in the book, the team is not mentioned though--69.113.219.55 02:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 * And why are there American, Australian, Canadian, German, etc. teams listed under "British and Irish Quidditch Teams"? Don Sample 07:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I put up a request for sources and will denote the ringers in four weeks. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 23:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The teams are all discussed in Quidditch Through the Ages. Cheers, faithless   (speak)  23:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Dear Faithless: It would be nice if you had inserted the source. I had to do it, based on your say-so. And when you say "discussed," do you mean "discussed" or simply "mentioned"? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 02:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Holyhead Harpies are forgotten. A Welsh all-witch team founded in 1203 (the only all-witch team in the world). Ginny Weasley becomes one of the team's the Chasers post-Hogwarts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.112.102.99 (talk) 13:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Do the books ever say what happens if there is a tie?
If one team scores 15 Goals and since each goal is 10 points that make 150 points so if the other team scored no goal but caught the snich there would be a tie. So does anyone know what happens then?

The team with the Snitch would win 69.19.14.15 (talk) 03:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC) December 18, 2007

- The above is untrue. The game ends in a draw. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.1.147 (talk) 00:26, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Team sports
I think the team sports template should be removed from this article. Quiddich isn't even on the template! Codelyoko193 Talk 13:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Genuine Snitch?
The Golden Snitch's artist depiction in the history section at the Golden Snitch looks more like a 5 year old child trying to draw a snitch than a real depiction by a real artist to me. I'll bet that the picture was put up by some father who wanted their offspring to be famous. Personally, I would waqnt the picture taken off. Do you agree? Gunnerdevil4 03:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, but would like to see another image put in its place if removed. A poor image is better than no image, IMHO. I realize that there is another picture of a snitch in the article, but still... faithless   (speak)  03:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Dude, that thing looks like a chicken nugget with Kid Icarus wings. --Prell 18:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

No Quidditch
"The game features in every Harry Potter book but the seventh, as Harry Potter plays an important position for his house team at Hogwarts." There was one other book, I believe, that didn't have a Quidditch match.GeorgeLouis (talk) 23:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There was no Quidditch at Hogwarts in GoF due to the Triwizard Tournament, but there was the Quidditch World Cup, so there technically was Quidditch in that book. The sentence should probably be rewritten for accuracy. Really, this entire article needs an overhaul. faithless   (speak)  23:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

OK. I added it. (The only way to get an "overhaul" past the eagle eyes of the HP fanatics is a little bit at a time, and it would help if each revision were sourced.) Yours on a broomstick, GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe that in 'The Order of the Phoenix', Professor Umbridge banned Quidditch, though in the table, it says that Griffendor was the champion house. Matthew.toffelmire (talk) 01:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Right to carry wands
I've inserted an uncited reference to Quidditch Through the Ages under "rules" - specifically the right to carry wands at all times was granted during the height of magical persecution by Muggles. I'm going to cite it when and if I find my copy of said book, but if anyone else has the book (or a third-party web source), please insert the citation so it doesn't go uncited. (It'd also help to say the year this right was granted, which I'm pretty sure is in there.) --Dbutler1986 (talk) 02:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Quidditch and Cricket
The play has been described as a cross between "cricket, Association football (soccer) and hockey"

I don't like this sentence, even if it does have a source. Quidditch has vague similarities to soccer and hockey, but doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to cricket. The source itself is an article written by an American author, which arouses my suspicion because Americans are not known for having any knowledge of cricket. In fact, I've seen evidence to suggest some of them even confuse it with croquet, which, while still not particularly similar to quidditch (or cricket, for that matter), does feature hoops through which a ball passes. Even if the author is well aware of the rules of cricket, it is still not a particularly valid or helpful comparison. The long and short of this is that I do not feel this sentence adds anything to the article, and am going to remove it unless anyone can give a good reason to keep it. We shouldn't be including any old gibberish someone has written on a subject merely because it has been written. 91.109.185.42 (talk) 21:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You're certainly welcome to disagree with the assertion, but The New York Review of Books is a reliable source, and there's nothing at all wrong with saying that Quidditch has been described as a cross between those games. If it was written differently (i.e. "Quidditch is a cross between...") I might agree with your argument. But I don't see any problem with it the way it is currently written. faithless   (speak)  23:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So the fact that it is published in a 'reliable' source merits the inclusion of any old drivel someone has written, as long as we make sure to wrap it in weasel words? In what way does it benefit the article to have a line mentioning what sports some random hack thinks Quidditch is a cross between, especially when it is blatantly incorrect?  All that it achieves is to suggest to people that Quidditch actually does in some way resemble cricket. 91.109.186.246 (talk) 16:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * In any case, while the New York Review of Books might be a reliable source for the discussion of literature, I don't see why it should be considered a reliable source for the discussion of sport. If it was written by Richie Benaud, on the other hand, I would concede the point. 91.109.186.246 (talk) 16:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, where to start...I suppose with your last point. In case you've forgotten, Quidditch is a fictional sport from a piece of literature. Just because you disagree with someone does not make them a "hack" nor does it make what they write "drivel" (and quite frankly this is laughable, considering who you're making these charges against). Furthermore, there are no weasel words in the sentence. You may be unfamiliar with Wikipedia's stance on original research, so allow me to paraphrase: we are concerned only with what has been published by reliable sources - our personal views and opinions are irrelevant. As another Wikipedia policy puts it, The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Again, you're free to disagree, but when the choice is between Alison Lurie and a random IP, Wikipedia is going to go with the Pulitzer Prize-winning Ivy League professor every time. faithless   (speak)  20:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Whether or not quidditch originates in a piece of literature is irrelevant. The sentence in question is describing the mechanics of a sport in comparison to other sports, not its function or merit as a literary device.  In that respect, a literary critic is no more qualified to comment on the subject than anybody else, and the only thing verifiable here is that it is a statement of opinion.  One could easily clog an article with all kinds of fatuous opinions drawn from supposedly reliable sources.  As for original research, what has that got to do with anything?  I'm suggesting the removal of dubious content, not the addition of more.
 * I'm proposing the removal of this sentence because it is an opinion, and a misleading one at that. I do not see why it is a notable opinion for this subject; a comparison of sports might be notable coming from a sports commentator, but otherwise it might as well have come from Worzel Gummidge for all the difference it makes.
 * If you really must keep it for no other reason than somebody with a pulitzer prize wrote it, I think it should at least be removed from the intro, which should focus only on verifiable facts regarding the rules of the game or its significance in the harry potter universe. As it is, it is simply misleading and unhelpful.  By comparison, notable people have published all kinds of nonsense opinions about chess, but none of them appear in the intro to that article, regardless of how verifiable they are.
 * By the way, 'has been described as' are the weasel words in question. They appear to lend the statement more weight by making it sound like common knowledge, obfuscating the fact that this is just what one person thinks. 91.109.186.246 (talk) 23:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't object to removing it from the lead. faithless   (speak)  02:40, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * However, I can't see anywhere else in the article suitable for it either, without the addition of some kind of 'Opinions on Quidditch' section, which would be a bit daft. Obviously when new content is added, it must be verifiable, but does that necessarily work the other way?  i.e. mandatory inclusion of all content that can be verified?  If that is the case, then we should also mention that USA Today has described it as 'a cross between soccer and basketball played on broomstick', and that the BBC thinks it is a bit like something called 'horseball'. Or, maybe it would be better if we didn't include any of these 'has been described as' type comments at all. 91.109.186.246 (talk) 13:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Fake Professional Quidditch teams
I'm pretty sure that the Barcelona Bombers are a fan made-up team, and the name was added to the end of the list on 2 January 2009, by Theogb.

I've not found any cannonical sources for the Barcelona Bombers team. The only sources outside Wikipedia, copy-paste this very article, or are from fan forums.

And of course, is not listed in Quidditch Through the Ages, as the section starts saying.

(I haven't checked if other teams on the list are fake/wrong...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.224.54.10 (talk) 12:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Gorodok team
Even tho no source is given, i reverted my own revn of an IP user's conversion of Gorodok from Russky to Litvak team: several Web pages do give a direct quote from QTTA supporting it. But i unl'k'd the Dab Gorodok, which reflects only Russ locations, and can only confuse users. Either figure out how to put a new entry on Gorodok that won't be immediately deletable under MoSDab or Dab, or leave the place name unlinked. The existing Dab lk was an invitation to to revert. --Jerzy•t 03:55, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * When I saw the IP edit earlier I checked my copy of QttA and, sure enough, they are a Lithuanian team. Agreed that it should not be linked. faithless   (speak)  09:11, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Since you have checked the reliable source, perhaps you'll add a ref on "Lithuanian" to protect that surprising fact (WP search on
 * Gorodok Lithuania
 * invites the inference that a Gorodok was once in Lithuania, but not in Harry's time) from future well-intended reversions. --Jerzy•t 19:53, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Harry's Performance as Seeker section
... needs to be fixed. It only lists years 2-6, though Harry clearly played in Year 1. The obvious inaccuracy of that omission make the rest of the listed results suspect. Someone should confirm with the source material to ensure accuracy. PK9 (talk) 00:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, fixed. — thedarklord trom bonator   10:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Ballycastle Bats
Why is the Republic of Ireland flag shown for Ballycastle Bats, who are supposedly located in Northern Ireland? Skinsmoke (talk) 00:56, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Article is too lengthy
This article needs to be condensed to an appropriate length. The fact that the article is longer in length than that of football ("soccer"), the most popular sport in the world, is compromising to the integrity of Wikipedia as a legitimate informational resource. It is nearly as long as the article for American football and tennis, and longer than that for golf. A credible encyclopedia should not have more to say about a fictional sport created primarily within the scope of seven fantasy novels, than for a sport steeped in at least seven centuries of history, with countless generations of players, followers, and devotees. It should be more of a stub; an offshoot of the Harry Potter article. If Quidditch is still being talked about in 700 years, then this article will be justified. Otherwise, we have some SERIOUS additions to make in the articles for Golf, football, tennis, etc. I understand there are many Harry Potter fans, but Wikipedia is not a fan blog. When the broad scope of the resource is observed, and one sees that Quidditch is given more attention than the most popular sport in the world, how credible is that resource? It is a demonstration of skewed priority, and a failure to achieve realistic and unbiased perspective among content.
 * Has nobody addressed this? I'm happy to whittle this sucker down to an appropriate length.  Admiral Bimbo (talk) 00:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Should be cut down significantly. I think as is its longer than the article on Australian Rules Football. :D 01:40, 18 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TurtleMelody (talk • contribs)

lack of link to Q3D
could anybody find a link for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.75.209 (talk) 16:36, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Spelling error
Just pointing out a minor error, I would fix it myself but the article appears to be locked. In section "Players", the word "practice" should be spelt with an s, as it is being used as a verb. 203.208.110.63 (talk) 13:44, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Done Gerardw (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Muggle Quiddich in Russia
Hello, there is the version of muggle quiddich in Russia since 2004, championships since 2006, - the base article Маггловский_квиддич, there are some links, the main resource with some videos is http://quidditch.ru/ It is based on handball rules, players don't use any brooms, all the balls are actually the balls, mixed or female teams strictly etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.220.131.52 (talk) 01:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Quidditch skills vs broom skills
The article states that Harry uses his "quidditch" skills several times to accomplish tasks in the novels. It seems obvious to me that he is a skilled at flying a broom, and hence a good seeker and also effective at accomplishing said tasks. It never states or even infers in the novels that he accomplishes the tasks because of quiddicth, quite the opposite, that he is good at being a seeker because of his natural skill on the broom. Beach drifter (talk) 05:05, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 173.19.197.176, 15 August 2011
Gryffindor did not win the Quidditch House Championship in the first Harry Potter book. I even checked the reference, in chapter 7 of Chamber of Secrets Wood states that they have to train harder because they should have won the year before, but did not. The Harry Potter wiki states Ravenclaw won in Harry's first year.

173.19.197.176 (talk) 03:13, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. I've changed the result from "Gryffindor" to "Unknown". Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 04:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Fouls vs. basketball fouls
In The Philosopher's Stone, Harry describes the sport as similar to basketball, a real-world Olympic sport. A lot of the common fouls are indeed very close to the fouls and other offenses in basketball. With this sourced analogy in mind, would it still be too OR-y to name the closest foul in basketball, so that readers familiar with basketball can more quickly understand the description of each Quidditch foul? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 05:18, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Flags in this section
I was bold and added the Northern Irish flag to the table for the Ballycastle Bats, it was reverted, so here we are; per WP:BRD. There are three solutions to the problem of what flag to assign to Ballywick. We can either (1) leave it as is, (2) add File:Ulster banner.svg, or (3) Use the UK flag for all teams in the UK. 1 is a problem for me (as an American) because I had no earthly idea where Ballywick was, upon looking at the table. 2 and 3, I understand are politically tricky (and I do not want to be involved in that in any way). It appears that the inclusion of the English, Scottish, and Welsh flags were done to mimick was was done in Association football. Association football uses these flags because each of the UK's constituent countries has their own FA and fields there own team in the World Cup, for instance. Is there any example of there being, for instance, an English National Quidditch team in the source texts? The MOS says we should not use the flags of subnational entities unless the organizations in question use the flags themselves. So, absent an example of a constituent country fielding a national Quidditch team, I think we should go to what is most Verifiable (that Appleby, Ballycastle, Montrose, and Caerphilly are in the UK) and side with Option #3, instead of Option #2. Achowat (talk) 18:31, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Option #2 and the use of the Ulster Banner is out as it is not the flag of Northern Ireland, the only flag that is official is the Union Jack so if flags must be used then Option #3 would be the best one. Personally I'm not a fan of flags being used in tables the way they are used here. Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * But you do recognize the need for a Northern Ireland flag in certain sporting situations, right? (Such as footballers who've played for the Irish Football Association since the partition) Achowat (talk) 18:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I accept that usage as the governing body of football in NI use it. Mo ainm  ~Talk  18:59, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to go ahead and change all the flags to UK ones until a source can be found that the Home Nations are used in Quidditch contexts. Achowat (talk) 20:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * agree with Achowat's edit. Bjmullan (talk) 22:31, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Champions of Hogwarts in first book
I made an edit as I'm pretty sure Gryffindor did not win the Cup in the first book. I do not believe we are ever told who did win it - if Ravenclaw won even one of their other two games they would have been champions as their points difference would have been best because of the result against Gryffindor, but if they lost both their other games, then either Slytherin or Hufflepuff would have been champions depending on who won the match between them. We know for certain that Gryffindor didn't win, though - the first book hints at it, and the third is pretty explicit that they haven't won since Charley Weasley.MyName2 (talk) 02:26, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Based on "Golden Egg" Card Game?
I wonder if Quidditch is based slightly on the obscure card game "Golden Egg" considering that the idea of both is to capture something golden, and the rules are rather Draconian...

81.159.108.31 (talk) 16:13, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Move to Wikia?
Is it just me, or does the vast majority of this article belong at Wikia? NickCT (talk) 18:31, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Infobox
Addition of an infobox clearly designed for real sports just adds to the in-universe issue. --Neil N  talk to me 22:57, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Game Progression Change
Took out "It is never explained why a Seeker would catch the Snitch in a situation where doing so would give the victory to the other team, i.e., the leading team's score exceeds the losing team's by 160 points, instead of simply waiting for the score to change" simply because it's logically not true. The Seeker's goal is to catch the Snitch nonetheless simply because it may be caught by the other team's Seeker first. Of course, the Seeker can maneuver a plan to distract the other team's Seeker; however, that would be difficult considering it's difficult to distract someone from catching the Snitch when their sole goal is to catch the Snitch. Mosammad93 (talk) 11:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC) how do you do fouls? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.47.97.254 (talk) 16:22, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

In-universe, time to get real
Ok this article has been tagged with in-universe for more than three years now. Further, 18 of 26 references depend on a primary, fictional, in-universe source. This needs to end. No, there is no deadline on Wikipedia, but there's also a serious issue here of not being encyclopedic. If people want to do in-universe writing, they are welcome at the Harry Potter Wiki. I'll wait a bit, but then begin restructuring this article to conform to our writing standards here. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Certainly there is lots of cruft in this article, with little amount of it devoted to real world content and lots of section with in-universe information. I think that the best way is to trimm and present the content of most sections into one single, short "Quidditch in the books", removing the History, Fouls and the Hogwarts Cup sections, and also removing all text that is taken almost entirely from Quidditch Through the Ages. -- LoЯd  ۞pεth  17:47, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Not pointing fingers at anyone here, so bear with me please. A month later, nothing's happened except for the addition of even more fancruft. I'll wait a while longer, and then strip the article down to elements supported by secondary sources, with just the occasional primary ref. It will be interesting to see if I get reverted, but this will not be a breaching experiment. This article is long, long overdue for encyclopedic treatment, rather than the fancruft page it has been. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:18, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Overflow
What if the Quidditch machine overflowed? That is, if a team scores a thousand points, then the Quidditch machine displays "0" instead of "1000." But Slytherin might cheat Gryffindor by letting Gryffindor score until the machine overflows and Gryffindor loses all its points! -32ieww 11:57 AM 12/30/2015 NY time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 32ieww (talk • contribs) 16:57, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Dead end
"Quodpot" on the page List of fictional sports links here, but there's no mention of it. I've long since lost my copy of Quidditch Through The Ages, so it'd be good if someone could add a mention to justify the pothole. 2A02:C7D:A34A:9000:794F:1118:279F:E256 (talk) 20:44, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Capitalisation
Why is quidditch capitalised within sentences in this article? We don't capitalise 'rugby'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.233.71 (talk) 09:44, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Quidditch is capitalised within this article because it is capitalised by Rowling in the books. The real-world version of the sport Quidditch (sport) would not be capitalised, in the same way we would not capitalise a sport like rugby. MissTimeturner (talk) 05:10, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Removing extraneous content
I'm new here, and I've noticed that large parts of this article are just reproducing content from Quidditch Through the Ages, e.g. the History and Rules sections. I can see this has been discussed before, but not much seems to have changed. Bearing in mind the article is tagged with in-universe, should this content be removed, or is there a reason it has been kept in for so long? Artemisialufkin (talk) 17:30, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and removed the sections. If anyone disagrees they can revert. Artemisia (talk) 14:55, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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added paragrapgh
Glad to see my work back on Wikipedia! It got deleted but it is back.

I would like to say that the golden snitch does not win the game for a team instantly it is only highly likely that the team would win if they caught the golden snitch because they would get 150 points but it is not a guarantee. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlackJack56891 (talk • contribs)
 * The article doesn't say that whoever catches the snitch wins, it says that catching it It's perfectly clear it doesn't automatically make them win. —El Millo (talk) 02:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Quidditch


text:
Talk:Quodpot

Isn't this more analogous to the divide between Baseball and Cricket? --April Arcus 00:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

No, it's definitely closer to the situation between gridiron football and soccer. The 11-person teams are a dead giveaway, although it could be that quodpot is closer to rugby than gridiron football on brooms.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Quodpot


text:
Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/68.170.0.238

I think that instead of calling this person the "Stop drinking soda" vandal, we should call him the "Banana nut" vandal. —Sean κ. + 04:47, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New Alias
It seems that this person is now appearing as 128.2.247.100. --Xcali 20:09, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

He's baaaaack
Apparently 68.170.0.238's block has expired. He's back and vandalizing/making POV edits/posting odd comments on my talk page again. Please block (#%@#@% - inarticulate cursing). - Jersyko    talk   00:44, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Back again
As 24.53.252.190. . . - Jersyko   talk  July 5, 2005 02:25 (UTC)

Please, someone block. I have no recourse other than to simply post an open request as the admins watching the "administrator intervention against vandalism" persist in coming up with excuses for not blocking Andrew and his sockpuppets. Admin RickK, who has been helping with Andrew, recently stopped editing wikipedia because most admins refuse to block persistent vandals like Andrew. Someone else with some power please help stop Andrew. - Jersyko   talk  July 7, 2005 22:11 (UTC)

 * I have blocked him for 48 hours now. The reason I feel reluctant to block IP's like this for a long time is that the history do contain some usefull edits. It is probably a dyn-IP used by others we don't want to hurt. You are obviously upset about this guy, but my best advice to get him to stop is to ignore him as much as you can. He is just one of many attention seeking kids around here really not worth losing any sleep over. I have no idea why he picked you to harass, but the same has hapend with me a few times (one guy had a whole C-net of ip's he used against me and another admin), but simply ignoring them makes them go bored rather quickly. Just revert and move on. But leave a quick note on WP:AIV if he is doing real persistant damage somewhere and nobody else is notising it.

 * Anyway, I'll put your talk-page on my watchlist now and if I see him post you any more banana-messages, I'll block whatever IP he uses then again. Shanes 8 July 2005 02:43 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your help, it is appreciated. The problem, however, is not what he has been doing to my talk page, but the articles he is creating and the edits he is making.  If he was only attacking my talk page, I would not be making such an ardent plea (see, for instance, the nearly 100 edits to my talk page by 198.74.20.xxx and note that he was essentially only editing my talk page and not articles for a long time).  The issue here is that a consensus has been developed in this Rfc that all of Andrew's incarnations, when they have made abundantly clear that they are Andrew through POV edits, vandalism, vanity articles, and other nonsense, should be stopped, one way or another, but Andrew's newest sockpuppet ip was allowed to make edits for four days before a relatively mild block was implemented.  I understand and share your concern that Wikipedia should not block shared IPs generally, but in this case (and other similar cases), where the IP is not contributing and has never contributed positively to Wikipedia, isn't that concern somewhat somewhat swayed?  Again, thank you for your help in watching my talk page, but the real problem here isn't what he's doing to me but what he's doing to the anything else. -

 * Regarding his useful edits (which are most certainly Andrew's since they follow the same MO of editing abbreviation or acronym articles), I feel that correcting the spelling of Pulau Tiga in the PT article (and a few similar edits) is outweighed by his creation of The Wonderful World of Colleen Haskell etc. - Jersyko   talk  July 8, 2005 03:37 (UTC)

New Username User:Andrew P Lin
He's been a bit innocuous so far, but please keep an eye on. Jersyko  talk  21:11, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * He just created the articles sooda, which consists entirely of "Another word for soda," and baddery (for probably the 3rd or 4th time), which consists entirely of "Another word for battery." I put a speedy tag on both.  He also edited some chemistry related articles that i don't have the knowledge to fact-check.  Someone please make sure these edits are OK. -  Jersyko   talk  23:33, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

User:Andrew P Lin recently created an article on soft drink addiction, which, after being helped out by User:Tabor, I speedied as re-creation of material previously voted for deletion. Content was:

 * A soft drink addiction is an addiction to sweetened, carbonated, usually caffeinated, beverages, containing ingredients such as sugar, high fructose corn syrup, or aspartame, as well as chemical additives such as phosphoric acid or citric acid. As a result of these ingredients, soft drinks strongly promote obesity, diabetes, neurological diseases from aspartame, behavioral disorders such as ADHD, loss of bone mineral density due to phosphoric acid, and even some forms of cancers caused by elevated insulin levels. Some people argue that soft drinks are even more additive than tobacco and alcohol.

No sources cited.

A little trickier is the article he created on Michael Jacobson, ostensibly a bio-stub, which does not even have Jacobson's date of birth. It is probably factually accurate, although no sources are cited, but obviously its only purpose is to insert a quotation in extenso of Jacobson's negative point of view on soft drinks. Jacobson is said to be "head" of Consumer Science for the Public Interest, a redlink. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:50, 6 August 2005 (UTC) Ah. Name was given incorrectly. I have redirected to Center for Science in the Public Interest. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:55, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

 * He's editing mainly with now, and recently has been reposting a paragraph of information in new articles and in existing articles that is related tangentially to the topic, but mostly to his anti-soda crusade.  See this and this.  Truly, Andrew needs a long-standing block. -  Jersyko   talk  14:26, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

 * He just recreated the deleted Junk food diet using one of his many sockpuppets (Agata Bugaj and Andrew P Lin, in this case). I'm mystified as to why he is not blocked for a long time. -  Jersyko   talk  04:57, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yet more garbage from Andrew at Carnegie Melon School of Computer Science. Yet again, it's quite ridiculous that all of his sockpuppets are not blocked for a long, long time. - Jersyko   talk  16:32, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * User:130.49.221.74 Tonight, Live at the University of Pittsburgh, its Andrew Lin... --Kiand 15:26, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You're kidding, he's still around? Sigh.  I'd love to meet Andy in real life; it would be rather gratifying to chug a few cans of mountain dew with him around. -  Jersyko   talk  15:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Remind me to move the 24 pack of Jolt out of the trunk and onto the passanger seat if I'm going through Pittsburgh, mkay? --Kiand 16:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

A year later . ..
Andrew seems to be back (or a copycat, at least). See User:CME46, User:You APLIN, User:AGLEN. · j e r s y k o   talk  · 20:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


text:
Mabo v Queensland (No 1)

Mabo v Queensland (No 1), was a significant court case decided in the High Court of Australia on 8 December 1988. It found that the Queensland Coast Islands Declaratory Act 1985, which attempted to retrospectively abolish native title rights, was not valid according to the Racial Discrimination Act 1975.

Background to the case
The case was closely related to another proceeding in the High Court (Mabo v Queensland (No 2), decided in 1992) which was a dispute between the Meriam people (of the Mer Islands in the Torres Strait) and the Government of Queensland, in which several Meriam people, principally Eddie Mabo, contested that they had certain native title rights over the Murray Islands. In 1985, the Queensland Government passed the Queensland Coast Islands Declaratory Act, which was intended to retrospectively abolish any such native title rights, if they existed.

The Meriam people sought a demurrer to prevent the Queensland Government from relying on the Coast Islands Declaratory Act in their defence to the main case.

The case
The main argument of the plaintiffs was that the Coast Islands Act was invalid, because it was contrary to the Racial Discrimination Act 1975, a law passed by the Parliament of Australia. Section 109 of the Constitution of Australia provides that where an Act of a state parliament is inconsistent with an Act of the Parliament of Australia, the state act is invalid to the extent of the inconsistency. As such, the plaintiffs argued that the Queensland Government were not able to rely on the Coast Islands Act as part of their defence in the main case. The Queensland Government argued that the Act was valid, and had the effect of extinguishing any rights which the plaintiffs may have had, which may have survived annexation of the islands in 1879.

Both parties agreed that the case should proceed on the assumption that the plaintiffs did actually hold native title rights, although the question had not been decided yet. The court agreed that the Coast Islands Act did operate to extinguish native title rights, if indeed they did exist. The main question was thus whether the Coast Islands Act was valid.

Section 10(1) of the Act provides that Commonwealth or State laws which deprive a person of one race or ethnic group of a right enjoyed by another group, then that law does not have effect. An important question was whether laws which have the effect of removing or limiting rights which are held only by a certain group falls under section 10(1).

The decision
The majority judgment of Justices Brennan, Toohey and Gaudron found that native title rights, if they did exist, should be treated as part of a broader human right to own and inherit property. They said that the effect of the Coast Islands Act was to arbitrarily deprive the Meriam people of their traditional property, by denying their native title rights. As such, their right to own and inherit property was limited. By this reasoning, the demurrer was allowed and the Queensland Government was not allowed to rely on the Coast Islands Act.

Consequences
This case was a significant step towards the recognition in the main case, Mabo v Queensland (No 2), that native title existed.

title: Mabo v Queensland (No 1)


text:
Talk:Tom Riddle's diary

Spoilers?
Should the spoiler tag that has been appearing on HBP articles be posted here?

Citation needed
I don't know how to post it on the page, but the information in the section labeled "citation needed" comes from J. K. Rowling's interview with Steve Kloves on the Chamber of Secrets DVD and a 2001 interview in Sydney Morning Herald. Quotes from both are included in the article on the diary in the Harry Potter Lexicon. 67.171.163.212 07:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tom Riddle's diary


text:
Talk:List of wands in Harry Potter

Commercial wand sites
Two "external links" have been posted (both originally by me) to commercial web sites regarding Harry Potter style "magic wands". Admittedly these two web sites are in business to sell their merchandise. Normally the Wikipedia guidelines frown upon posting links in articles which lead to external web sites that primarily serve for profitable sales. After much consideration I decided to post these commercial links anyway, for the following reasons: Another editor chose to post Voldemort's wand image (from the Noble Collection site), which is a fine example illustration. Wikipedia's Fair Use illustration guidelines usually allow such illustrations, as long as they are used "minimally", and for directly illustrating the point being discussed. --T-dot 15:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Alivans site came out not long after after the first HP movie. Originally the site was named directly after Ollivander's, but for trademark reasons the site was renamed.  Nevertheless, the site includes cleverly animated, "wand chooses the wizard" features in the Virtual Shop Tour that echo Harry Potter's first visit to Ollivanders in Diagon Alley.  Alivans also includes a "Broom Closet" with a variety of Harry Potter style riding brooms, and a "virtual test flight" that is cheesy, yet entertaining for children.  Nevertheless, the site is not posted here to intentionally promote sales of Harry Potter style merchandise, but rather to allow interested readers view some of the illustrations, and take a fairly entertaining "tour".
 * The Noble Collection web site includes highly detailed replica wands that have been officially "approved" by Warner Brothers, and are closely based on those used in the films. There is other merchandise at that site, and like Alivan's, it exists to sell items and make a profit.  But the purpose for posting the link to the site is to allow readers to get a closer look at the "approved replica" wands, for illustrative purposes only.  The alternative would be to post images of several or all the available replica wands, directly from the Noble Collection site to the Wand article, which might result in other issues regarding posting of Fair Use images, their copyrights, etc.

Question
Question: Why did Charlie pass his wand to Ron? What wand does Charlie use now?Turidoth 05:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

AfD result
This article failed to gather a consensus for deletion. However, it did have a consensus that it should not stand as an article as its own, but the suggestion was made that a merge be performed. As no clear target for that was suggested, I'll not apply any tags but instead leave it up to the editors of this page to work out. If, after some ambigious period of time, merging and redirecting hasn't been performed, a re-nomination is likely. - brenneman  {L} 06:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Move
This article isn't really a list- it's about wands in the Harry Potter universe. Anyone object to moving this to perhaps "Wand (Harry Potter)" and keeping it as an article about wands in the context of Harry Potter? Friday (talk) 03:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * To clarify: a merge into Wizarding_world per Afd comments is not unreasonable, but that article is somewhat long already. Friday (talk) 04:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ook. I've just suggested something opposite to this on my talk page... but my main concern with all these articles is sources. -  brenneman  {L} 04:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't we use the books themselves as primary sources on these kinds of articles? Friday (talk) 04:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've just created a redirect to Wizarding World and established a link to the most recent pre-redirect version of the list so we can determine what needs to be merged from the list to the Wizarding World article.  hoopydink  Conas tá tú? 04:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The word "wand" currently appears three times in the entire Wizarding World article, a list of wands seems not to exist. A redirect will only frustrate those looking for an actual list of Harry Potter Wands. User:Livedevilslivedevil 10 October 2006
 * Feel free to go to the history and view the article before it was redirected and merge parts of the list into Wizarding world.  hoopydink  Conas tá tú? 10:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Redirect target
As there is currently no mention of wands in the current target Wizarding world, let alone a list, I'm changing the redirect to Magical objects in Harry Potter#Wands, which does have such a list. Why anyone would have objected to the list as it was before the AfD frankly escapes me, but at least this way the content will be accessible to our readers. I thought that was the whole point of Wikipedia. Andrewa 06:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of wands in Harry Potter


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joink

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete. — Xezbeth 19:21, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Joink
Looks like advertising, local company DS1953 04:50, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Almost definately advertising.  Almafeta 05:32, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. useless. 216.158.31.195 17:08, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete.
 * Delete ad. --Etacar11 17:33, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joink


text:
Israel–Palestine Liberation Organization letters of recognition

The Letters of Mutual Recognition were exchanged between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization on 9 September 1993. In their correspondence, Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestinian political leader Yasser Arafat agreed to begin cooperating towards a peaceful solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The PLO recognized Israel's right to exist in peace, renounced Palestinian militancy and terrorism, and accepted UNSC Resolution 242 and UNSC Resolution 338. Israel recognized the PLO as a legitimate authority representing the Palestinian people and agreed to commence comprehensive negotiations for the Israeli–Palestinian peace process. These initial agreements between Rabin and Arafat laid the groundwork for the Oslo I Accord on 13 September 1993, effectively serving as its preamble.

Correspondence
There were a total of three letters exchanged, with one letter from Palestinian political leader Yasser Arafat to Norwegian foreign minister Johan Jørgen Holst. The correspondences are shown below:

PLO to Israel: letter from Yasser Arafat to Yitzhak Rabin

 * September 9, 1993
 * Yitzhak Rabin
 * Prime Minister of Israel

 * Mr. Prime Minister,

 * The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

 * The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.
 * The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.
 * The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

 * The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators.

 * In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

 * Sincerely,

 * Yasser Arafat
 * Chairman
 * The Palestine Liberation Organization

PLO to Norway: letter from Yasser Arafat to Johan Jørgen Holst

 * September 9, 1993
 * His Excellency
 * Johan Jørgen Holst
 * Foreign Minister of Norway

 * Dear Minister Holst,

 * I would like to confirm to you that, upon the signing of the Declaration of Principles, the PLO encourages and calls upon the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip to take part in the steps leading to the normalization of life, rejecting violence and terrorism, contributing to peace and stability and participating actively in shaping reconstruction, economic development and cooperation.

 * Sincerely,

 * Yasser Arafat
 * Chairman
 * The Palestine Liberation Organization

Israel to PLO: letter from Yitzhak Rabin to Yasser Arafat

 * September 9, 1993
 * Yasser Arafat
 * Chairman
 * The Palestine Liberation Organization.

 * Mr. Chairman,

 * In response to your letter of September 9, 1993, I wish to confirm to you that, in light of the PLO commitments included in your letter, the Government of Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.

 * Sincerely,

 * Yitzhak Rabin
 * Prime Minister of Israel

Documents of the Oslo Accords
Additional cooperative documents signed between Israel and the PLO in light of the Oslo Accords:

 * Protocol on Economic Relations (29 April 1994)
 * Agreement on the Gaza Strip and the Jericho Area (4 May 1994)
 * 1994 Washington Declaration (25 July 1994)
 * Agreement on Preparatory Transfer of Powers and Responsibilities Between Israel and the PLO (29 August 1994)
 * Protocol on Further Transfer of Powers and Responsibilities (27 August 1995)
 * Protocol Concerning the Redeployment in Hebron (17 January 1997)
 * Wye River Memorandum (23 October 1998)
 * Sharm el-Sheikh Memorandum (4 September 1999)
 * Taba Summit (27 January 2001)


text:
Paul Allen's flower fly

Paul Allen's flower fly (Eristalis alleni) is a flower fly found only in Costa Rican forests in the central highlands. It was named after Paul Allen. Another fly was also named after Allen's associate Bill Gates, Bill Gates' flower fly (Eristalis gatesi).

It is similar in appearance to Eristalis circe Williston, 1891 and Eristalis persa Williston, 1891, but has different leg colouration.

Biology
Little is known of its biology, but most adults are found in association with flowers in the genus Senecio.

title: Paul Allen's flower fly


text:
Kinikinik, Colorado

Kinikinik is a small unincorporated community in western Larimer County, Colorado, in the United States. It is located along State Highway 14 in the upper Poudre Canyon west of Fort Collins on the east side of Cameron Pass. The community consists of a general store and neighboring summer mountain resorts and vacation homes. The activities include fishing in the Cache la Poudre River and hiking in the nearby mountains in the Roosevelt National Forest. The community was named for the kinnikinick plant by early settlers.

Kinikinik is also famous for being one of the longest Palindromic Places in the US, and in the world.

title: Kinikinik, Colorado


text:
Eric Lévi

Éric Jacques Levisalles, stage name Eric Lévi (Paris, 1955) is a French rock musician and film composer.

In 1975, Eric Lévi founded the hard rock band Shakin' Street with Fabienne Shine, which would release the two albums Vampire Rock and Solid as a Rock. Shakin' Street briefly toured with AC/DC and the Blue Öyster Cult before disbanding in 1981. He then moved to New York, and back to Paris in 1992.

Later on in his career, Eric Lévi wrote the musical score to several films, including L'Opération Corned-beef the comedy Les Visiteurs which was an international success and one of the highest-grossing films of all time in France, and La Vengeance d'une Blonde. Levi wrote the end-credit song People And Places for La Vengeance d'une Blonde with Philip Bailey and Roxanne Seeman. People And Places was recorded by Dee Dee Bridgewater and Philip Bailey for the film soundtrack. It was released as a single and on the soundtrack album as a single, club mix, and instrumental version.

Lévi is best known for the musical project Era, and for inventing the Latin-sounding words of these songs. Era's self-titled debut album in 1997 was commercially successful, becoming the most exported French album with over 6 million copies sold. A sequel, Era 2 was released in 2000, followed by Era: The Mass in 2003. The trilogy is characterized by a mixture of rock, synth, and pseudo-Latin Gregorian chant.

title: Eric Lévi


text:
Kinnikinnick (disambiguation)

Kinnikinnick is a smoking product utilizing either the leaf or inner bark of any of the below plants, typically mixed with other plant materials, such as tobacco and/or berries.

Kinnikinnick, kinnikinic, kinnikinick, etc. may refer to:

Plants

 * Bearberry (Arctostaphylos spp.), commonly referred to as "kinnikinick"
 * Red osier dogwood (Cornus sericea), regionally referred to as "kinnikinick" in Minnesota and Wisconsin
 * Silky cornel (Cornus amomum)
 * Canadian bunchberry (Cornus canadensis)
 * Evergreen sumac (Rhus virens)
 * Littleleaf sumac (Rhus microphylla)

Toponyms

 * Kinikinik, Colorado, an unincorporated community in Colorado
 * Kinikinik Lake, a lake in Alberta
 * Kinikinik, Alberta
 * Kinnickinnic River (Milwaukee River), a river in eastern Wisconsin, a tributary of the Milwaukee River
 * Kinnickinnic River (St. Croix River), a river in western Wisconsin, a tributary of the St. Croix River
 * Kinnickinnic, Wisconsin, a town in western Wisconsin named after one of the rivers
 * Kinnickinnic State Park, a park in western Wisconsin
 * Kinnikinick Lake, a lake in Arizona
 * Kinnikinnick Creek, a stream in southern central Ohio
 * Kinnikinnick, Ohio, a village in Ohio, named after the stream
 * Kinnikinnick Park, a municipal park in the town of Sechelt in western Canada

title: Kinnikinnick (disambiguation)


text:
John C. A. Barrett

John Charles Allanson Barrett (born 1943) is an English Methodist and chairman and elected president of the World Methodist Council, succeeding Nigerian Sunday Mbang at the World Methodist Conference in Seoul on 24 July 2006. Before stepping down in 2009 after five years as the first principal of the international Anglo-Chinese School in Singapore, Barrett had a long career as an educationalist.

Barrett was educated at Culford School from 1951 to 1961, Newcastle University (B.A. (Hons), Economics) and Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge (M.A., Theology). He completed his ministerial training at Wesley House, Cambridge and was later awarded an honorary Ph.D. from the University of Florida for his Methodism.

Barrett served as a circuit minister from 1971 to 1973, then from 1973 to 1983 was Chaplain to Kingswood School, Bath. In 1983, he became headmaster of Kent College, Pembury, before moving as headmaster to The Leys School in 1990, where he stayed for 14 years before retiring (and subsequently coming out of retirement to lead the Anglo-Chinese School. ) At various points he also taught at Westminster College, Oxford, Wesley College, Bristol and Birches Head High School.

He is married to Sally, who was also on the staff of Kingswood School.

title: John C. A. Barrett


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Far-red light

Far-red light is a range of light at the extreme red end of the visible spectrum, just before infrared light. Usually regarded as the region between 700 and 750 nm wavelength, it is dimly visible to human eyes. It is largely reflected or transmitted by plants because of the absorbance spectrum of chlorophyll, and it is perceived by the plant photoreceptor phytochrome. However, some organisms can use it as a source of energy in photosynthesis. Far-red light also is used for vision by certain organisms such as some species of deep-sea fishes and mantis shrimp.

In horticulture
Plants perceive light through internal photoreceptors absorbing a specified wavelength signaling (photomorphogenesis) or transferring the energy to a plant process (photosynthesis). In plants, the photoreceptors cryptochrome and phototropin absorb radiation in the blue spectrum (B: λ=400–500 nm) and regulate internal signaling such as hypocotyl inhibition, flowering time, and phototropism. Additional receptors called phytochrome absorb radiation in the red (R: λ=660–730 nm) and far-red (FR: λ>730 nm) spectra and influence many aspects of plant development such as germination, seedling etiolation, transition to flowering, shade avoidance, and tropisms. Phytochrome has the ability to interchange its conformation based on the quantity or quality of light it perceives and does so via photoconversion from phytochrome red (Pr) to phytochrome far-red (Pfr). Pr is the inactive form of phytrochrome, ready to perceive red light. In a high R:FR environment, Pr changes conformation to the active form of phytochrome Pfr. Once active, Pfr translocates to the cellular nucleus, binds to phytochrome interacting factors (PIF), and targets the PIFs to the proteasome for degradation. Exposed to a low R:FR environment, Pfr absorbs FR and changes conformation back to the inactive Pr. The inactive conformation will remain in the cytosol, allowing PIFs to target their binding site on the genome and induce expression (i.e. shade avoidance through cellular elongation). FR irradiation can lead to compromised plant immunity and increased pathogen susceptibility.

FR has long been considered a minimal input in photosynthesis. In the early 1970’s, PhD physicist and soil crop professor Dr. Keith J. McCree lobbied for a standard definition of photosynthetically active radiation (PAR: λ=400–700 nm) which did not include FR. More recently, scientists have provided evidence that a broader spectrum called photo-biologically active radiation (PBAR: λ=280–800 nm) is more applicable terminology. This range of wavelengths not only includes FR, but also UV-A and UV-B. The Emerson Effect established that the rate of photosynthesis in red and green algae was higher when exposed to R and FR than the sum of the two individually. This research laid the ground work for the elucidation of the dual photosystems in plants. Photosystem I (PSI) and photosystem II (PSII) work synergistically; through photochemical processes PSII transports electrons to PSI. Any imbalance between R and FR leads to unequal excitation between PSI and PSII, thereby reducing the efficiency of photochemistry.

title: Far-red light


text: User talk:140.168.69.166

title: User talk:140.168.69.166


text:
User:ChristianEdwardGruber

{|border="0" name="userboxes" id="userboxes" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; width: 1%; border: #99B3FF solid 1px; background-color: #eeddff" align: center;"
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So I have no time in my life to be making bios, yet somehow I scrape enough to play with userboxen and edit wikipedia articles. What up with that... er... yo.

I speak and write a few languages, shown in the terribly ridiculous number of boxes on the right. I'm working on Arabic next, while I beef up the current ones. Someday I'll speak an east-asian language... maybe Mandarin... who knows?

Articles I've started or substantially altered

 * Bahá'í administration
 * Bahá'í divisions
 * Shaykh Ahmad
 * People claiming to be the Mahdi
 * Bahá'í statistics
 * Non-Bahá'í
 * Divisions of Islam
 * Kharijites

Articles I've contributed to

 * Non-partisan democracy
 * World Government
 * Divisions of Islam
 * Bahá'í/Bábí split
 * Bayán (exposition)
 * Covenant-breaker
 * Shunning
 * Bahá'í Faith
 * Persecution of Bahá'ís

Other projects

 * Criticism is something I'd like to see improved and implemented as a guideline, to avoid needless talk-page thrashing over how to handle contentious views.
 * Occasional re-working of pages like Bahá'í divisions and other contentious pages rife with disagreement, in order to keep everyone's views, but present them in an NPOV context.
 * This is old, but I did some work on religious wikipedian categories and some Baha'i-related templates.
 * User:ChristianEdwardGruber/index My sandboxes and other user pages.

Stats

 * Interiot's Tool2 stats.

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title: User:ChristianEdwardGruber


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Balefire (book series)

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. Golbez 18:31, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

Balefire (book series)
These titles don't exist...and even if they did they would still need to be noteworthy.

''The votes for deletion/Balefire (book series) page was created June 3rd by hooperbloob but doesn't seem to have been listed on the day's votes for deletion page. I am completing the process.'' RJFJR 15:58, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete for now; real books but not yet released. This is just promo until the books actually come out.—Wahoofive (talk) 22:54, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete yeah, wait til they come out. Right now it's just an ad. --Etacar11 23:25, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
The Naked City

The Naked City (a.k.a. Naked City) is a 1948 American crime procedural produced by Mark Hellinger, directed by Jules Dassin, written by Albert Maltz and Malvin Wald. Starring Barry Fitzgerald, with Howard Duff, Dorothy Hart and Don Taylor in support, the film depicts the police investigation that follows the murder of a young model. It was shot almost entirely on location in New York City.

Naked City received two Academy Awards, one for cinematography for William H. Daniels and another for film editing to Paul Weatherwax. In 2007, the highly influential film was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress as being "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant".

Plot
In the late hours of a hot New York summer night two men chloroform ex-model Jean Dexter, then drown her in her bathtub. When one of them gets conscience-stricken while drunk, the other kills him and throws his body into the East River.

Experienced detective Lt. Dan Muldoon and novice Det. Jimmy Halloran are assigned to the case. At the scene the medical examiner determines the “accidental” death had actually been murder. A pair of men’s pajamas yields only the name “Philip Henderson” from her housekeeper, who drops a bombshell that Dexter’s hoard of expensive jewelry is missing. A bottle of sleeping pills leads Halloran to the doctor who prescribed them, Lawrence Stoneman. Ruth Morrison, a model friend of Jean’s, is also located and questioned.

Back at the police station, Muldoon interrogates Frank Niles, Jean's ex-boyfriend, who lies about everything. He claims only a business relationship with Jean and denies knowing Ruth, although the pair are actually engaged. He lies himself into becoming the prime murder suspect, but has an airtight alibi. Later, Muldoon deduces from the bruises on Jean's neck that she was killed by at least two men.

The detectives learn that Niles has just sold an expensive cigarette case stolen from Stoneman, then purchased a one-way airline ticket to Mexico City. They also discover that one of Jean's rings was stolen from the home of a Mrs. Hylton. At the matron’s Park Avenue apartment the police learn that the ring actually belonged to her socialite daughter, who, to their surprise, turns out to be Ruth Morrison.

Finding that Ruth's engagement ring was stolen in a different robbery, Muldoon and Halloran take Ruth to Niles' apartment. There they interrupt someone attempting to chloroform him, who shoots his way down the fire escape and disappears onto a nearby elevated train. When questioned about the stolen jewelry, Niles claims he had gotten everything as gifts from Jean, raising eyebrows all round. Realizing she is engaged to both a pathological liar and a criminal, Ruth slaps him hysterically. Niles is then arrested for the jewel thefts, but remains mum about his attacker.

The body of small-time jewel thief Peter Backalis is fished out of the East River; he’d been murdered within hours of Jean, and Halloran believes the two killings are connected. Muldoon, although skeptical, lets Halloran pursue the lead and assigns two veteran detectives already on the case to help out. Through considerable legwork they learn that Backalis' last known accomplice had been Willie Garzah, a former wrestler who plays the harmonica. While Halloran and his team canvass the Lower East Side with an old publicity photograph of him, Muldoon demands Niles identify Jean's mystery boyfriend. He reveals that "Henderson" is the same Dr. Stoneman, a married society physician.

At Stoneman's office Muldoon uses Niles to trap the doctor into implicating himself, who confesses that he became obsessed with Jean only to learn that she and Niles were using him in order to rob his wealthy friends. Niles then admits to planning the thefts, but says Backalis and Garzah did the jobs; denied a larger cut, they killed Jean.

On his own, Halloran locates Garzah and unsuccessfully tries to take him into custody. Lulled, the green detective is rabbit punched unconscious by the thug, who then attempts to dissolve into the crowded city. As police descend upon the neighborhood and Halloran joins the search, Garzah panics and draws attention to himself by shooting a blind man's guide dog. He races onto the Williamsburg Bridge, but as police approach from both directions starts climbing one of the towers. Shot, wounded, and bloodied by the dog, he still refuses to surrender; gunfire is exchanged, he is hit, and plummets to his death.

The following morning a trashman sweeps a gutter of yesterday’s newspapers, and with them the Jean Dexter case. A concluding voiceover states, "There are eight million stories in the naked city. This has been one of them."

Cast

 * Barry Fitzgerald as Detective Lt. Dan Muldoon
 * Howard Duff as Frank Niles
 * Dorothy Hart as Ruth Morrison
 * Don Taylor as Detective Jimmy Halloran
 * Frank Conroy as Captain Donahue
 * Ted de Corsia as Willie Garzah
 * House Jameson as Dr. Lawrence Stoneman
 * Anne Sargent as Mrs. Halloran
 * Adelaide Klein as Mrs. Paula Batory
 * Grover Burgess as Mr. Batory
 * Tom Pedi as Detective Perelli
 * Enid Markey as Mrs. Edgar Hylton
 * Walter Burke as Pete Backalis
 * Virginia Mullen as Martha Swenson
 * Mark Hellinger as Narrator
 * Lee Shumway as Patrolman (uncredited)

Production
The visual style of The Naked City was inspired by New York photographer Weegee, who published a book of photographs of New York life titled Naked City (1945). Weegee was hired as a visual consultant on the film, and is credited with helping to craft its imagery. But film historian William Park has argued that, despite Weegee's work on the film and its title coming from Weegee's earlier work, the film owes its visual style more to Italian neorealism rather than Weegee's photographic work.

The musical scoring process was contentious. Hellinger allowed Dassin to assign a former M-G-M colleague, the arranger George Bassman, to compose the music. Hellinger found this so unsatisfactory that, on the night before he died, he begged his own first choice, Miklós Rózsa, to step in. Rózsa concentrated on the climactic chase and epilogue, while Frank Skinner scored the early scenes. Rózsa later compiled a "Mark Hellinger Suite" of music from his three Hellinger pictures (including The Killers and Brute Force). The Naked City epilogue, "Song of a Great City", was Rózsa's tribute to the producer.

The movie features the uncredited film debuts of Kathleen Freeman, Bruce Gordon, James Gregory, Nehemiah Persoff, and John Randolph in small roles. Randolph, along with Paul Ford, who also had a small part, was appearing at the time on the New York stage in Command Decision. John Marley, Arthur O'Connell, David Opatoshu, and Molly Picon had small, uncredited roles.

Producer Mark Hellinger, who also narrated the film, was only 44 when he died of a heart attack on December 21, 1947, after reviewing the final cut of the film at his home.

Box office
The film was a considerable hit at the box office.

Critical reception
New York Times film critic Bosley Crowther, while having problems both with the script and Dassin’s direction, liked the location shooting and wrote, "Thanks to the actuality filming of much of its action in New York, a definite parochial fascination is liberally assured all the way and the seams in a none-too-good whodunnit are rather cleverly concealed. And thanks to a final, cops-and-robbers 'chase' through East Side Manhattan and on the Williamsburg Bridge, a generally talkative mystery story is whipped up to a roaring 'Hitchcock' end."

In July 2018, the film was selected to be screened in the Venice Classics section at the 75th Venice International Film Festival.

Awards and honors
Wins
 * Academy Awards: Oscar, Best Cinematography, Black-and-White, William H. Daniels; Best Film Editing, Paul Weatherwax; 1949.

Nominations
 * Academy Awards: Oscar, Best Writing, Motion Picture Story, Malvin Wald; 1949.
 * British Academy of Film and Television Arts: BAFTA Film Award, Best Film from any Source, USA; 1949.
 * Writers Guild of America: WGA Award (Screen), Best Written American Drama, Albert Maltz and Malvin Wald; The Robert Meltzer Award (Screenplay Dealing Most Ably with Problems of the American Scene), Albert Maltz and Malvin Wald; 1949.

Adaptations

 * The film was the inspiration for a half-hour Naked City television series, which used the film's famous concluding line. The characters of Muldoon and Halloran initially returned in the series, played by John McIntire and James Franciscus. The series ran for a single season in 1958 to 1959, earning an Emmy Award nomination as Best Drama. It was resurrected in Fall 1960 as an hour-long drama, which ran from October 1960 to September 1963.
 * The film inspired two television films, Naked City: Justice with a Bullet and Naked City: A Killer Christmas, starring Scott Glenn as Muldoon and Courtney B. Vance as Halloran. They aired on Showtime in October and December 1998 respectively.

title: The Naked City


text:
Talk:Nikos Sampson

Untitled
This guy should have never existed. He brought onto the Greeks much misery. (UNFanatic 05:10, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Birth
Regarding date and place of birth, this source claims Sampson was born 1935 in Nicosia. Also, it seems he died May 9, 2001. Rl 06:51, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Archangel of Freedom
Fought for freedom. Good man. --GreekWarrior 11:51, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

____________ The Turks would say the same of their troops... --SolDrury 18:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I would compare Mr. Sampson's presidency to an alternate history in which David Duke had been elected U.S. President in 1968. RadManCF (talk) 02:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Murderer of Turkish and Greek Cypriots
This guy was a fascistic Greek racist. He ordered the murder of many Turkish and Greek Cypriots, including women and children. The Turkish government replied to the attempted genocide of Turks with a division of the island into two: That of the Turks and that of the Greeks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.27.160.248 (talk) 09:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Sampson deserves more than any other person credit for the partition of Cyprus. Considering what would have happened to the Turkish Cypriot populace had the coup prevailed, I think that Turkey did the only possible thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Expatkiwi (talk) • contribs) 02:04, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

=Lol, englishman or american, 7/7, 9/11 my friend, lets hope more are coming! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.186.227 (talk) 19:01, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Nikos Sampson was a brave man. He was a man that stood for a greater Cyprus. He was betrayed and put as president of Cyprus. He didn't want anything but the best for Cyprus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.35.28 (talk) 22:17, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

He was a great family man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.35.28 (talk) 22:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

All he wanted was Enosis and the complete Hellenisation of the island. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Expatkiwi (talk) • contribs) 15:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I am Greek, Sampson was a fascist scum bag and he doesn't represent all of us. He caused us such misery with his stupid policies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.26.69 (talk) 06:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Turks were fucking sampson's mother and they still fuck mothers of all apoelistes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.69.28.32 (talk) 00:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Source for calling Sampson terrorist
Here is a high-quality reliable source on "Sampson the terrorist" and "Sampson the genocidal murderer". Use it freely. Especially pay attention to chapter Sadistic Reputation on page 4. Quotes: "A notorious terrorist, Nikos Giorgiades Sampson, 39, was picked as the new President."

"Sampson, 39, who has openly bragged of killing at least a dozen men... He was one of about two dozen powerful right-wing "warlords" who maintained small private armies for attacks on Turkish enclaves."

""Sampson is a thug and killer, pure and simple.""

"Sampson would frequently be "the first reporter on the scene. The reason, of course, was that he himself had committed the murders."

-- Petri Krohn (talk) 09:35, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Sampson
"...He was a great family man..." . No doubt he loved animals too and doubtless his neighbours spoke well of him. Much the same was said of Adolf Eichmann amongst others. Sampson was a convicted murderer whose deluded obsession with enosis and ethnic cleansing led (ironically) to what now seems to be a permanent division of the island. He had not only Turkish but British and even Greek Cypriot blood on his hands. A real Ratko Mladic in his day was Sampson... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.206.199 (talk) 20:15, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Neither an angel nor a devil
Having fought along the anti-colonial guerilla warfare of EOKA against the British would obviously make him a ruthless gunman to any Englishman (as would any IRA fighter), but a resistance hero to others. If we are to a follow Wiki-NPOV we must refrain from moralistic ejaculations. The events in 1974 are remain quite contoversial. There is nothing black-and-white about the events leading to the anti-Makarios coup and the ensuing Turkish invasion. Demonizing Sampson alone for what happened then is certainly an easy thing to do, but quite at the risk of sweeping other peoples' responsibilities under the carpet. Rastapopoulos 15:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Quotes
I have the following quote I would like added to the main article

"Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus." Sampsun to Eleftherotipia February 26, 1981 --SolDrury 18:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone have a link to the original Greek text for this quote ? A right winger like Nikos Sampson would never, under any circumstances, use the word "intervened" when Turkey "invaded". It's like a right wing Turk saying Turkey "invaded" Cyprus, instead of "intervened" in Cyprus. There is an obvious translation issue here and so the rest of the translated quote is suspect too. The original Greek text is needed. Perseus1982 (talk) 09:59, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * He said επέμβει, which I would translate as 'interfere' -- as in, Turkey interfered in his plans. Alakzi (talk) 11:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum
Please narrow the content of your posts to the discussions about the article "stricto sensu" - all other posts can be removed per talk page guidelines. Thank you. Baristarim 06:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NSAMPSON.JPG
Image:NSAMPSON.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 00:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Template
The president of Cyprus template should removed or we can add his name. See also Template talk:CypriotPresidents about the discussion upon this issue.--Vagrand (talk) 18:20, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit warring and POV-pushing
Chat in the article like "The last statement is not historically correct. There was no invasion of the Greek junta but a military coup orchestated by the Greek dictator "' is unencyclopaedic, and there are a great many POV, unreferenced statements in the article. I'd like to ask that the edit-warring please stop. I'm going to ask for expert assistance on this, rather than revert the changes made by User:Marios Adamides again. Lone boatman (talk) 14:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I noted that Cyprus articles are prone to this and consider community sanctions similar to those instituted for The Troubles articles may be necessary Kernel Saunters (talk) 15:00, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit Nicos Sampson
I tried to clarify the beginning of the article and also supplied the Charles Foley sources. I hope this was helpful. Christos Christos Evangeli (talk) 01:16, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nikos Sampson


text: User talk:70.105.70.12

title: User talk:70.105.70.12


text:
Mark Rudd

Mark William Rudd (born June 2, 1947) is an American political organizer, mathematics instructor, anti-war activist and counterculture icon who was involved with the Weather Underground in the 1960s.

Rudd became a member of the Columbia University chapter of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) in 1963. By 1968, he had emerged as a leader for Columbia's SDS chapter. During the 1968 Columbia University Protests, he served as spokesperson for dissident students protesting a variety of issues, particularly the Vietnam War. As the war escalated, Mark Rudd worked with other youth movement leaders to take SDS in a more militant direction. While much of the general membership of SDS refused to countenance violence, Rudd together with some other prominent SDS members formed a paramilitary organization inspired by the Red Guard, referring to themselves collectively as "Weatherman" after the lyrics from a famous Bob Dylan song.

Rudd went "underground" in 1970, hiding from law enforcement following the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion that killed three of his Weather Underground peers. He surrendered to authorities in 1977 and served a short jail sentence. He taught mathematics at Central New Mexico Community College, and retired in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Rudd has since expressed regret for his role in the Weather Underground, and advocates for nonviolence and electoral change.

Early life
Rudd was born in Irvington, New Jersey. His father, Jacob S. Rudd (1909–1995), was born Jacob Shmuel Rudnitsky in Stanislower, Poland; he was a former army officer who sold real estate in Maplewood, New Jersey. His mother, Bertha Bass (1912–2009), was born in Elizabeth, New Jersey, the year after her parents emigrated from Lithuania. Rudd had a brother, David R. Rudd (1939–2009), who became an attorney. His family was Jewish. Rudd attended Columbia High School in his hometown of Maplewood, New Jersey, and later Columbia University in New York.

Campus activism
He identified the Vietnam War as an imperialist war and first tried to stop the university's involvement in the war. He also supported the black power movement. Rudd said they were protesting horrors like Agent Orange defoliation and the carpet bombing in Vietnam. Mark Rudd's website says that his commitment to "fighting U.S imperialism" was inspired by the revolutionary movement in Cuba, which at that time was in its ninth year.

In 1968, Rudd and Bernardine Dohrn and other leaders of SDS were invited to Cuba to meet with Cuban, Soviet, and North Vietnamese delegates. His experiences in Cuba strengthened Rudd's anti-war and pro-Communist sentiments. Rudd had described the life of Cuba as "extremely humanistic" and he idealized Ernesto "Che" Guevara, referring to him as the "Heroic Guerrilla."

Once he returned from Cuba, Rudd was elected President of the Columbia chapter of SDS. In 1968, during his junior year, Rudd was expelled from Columbia after a series of sit-ins and riots that disrupted campus life and attracted nationwide attention. These events culminated in the dramatic occupation of several campus buildings, including the Administration building, Low Memorial Library, and which ended only after violent clashes between students and the New York Police Department.

The Columbia protest was not the first student revolt on an American campus, but as it occurred at a relatively conservative Ivy League school located just up the street from the headquarters of the nation's news media, it received considerable press coverage and drew many supporters. The protests produced the slogan "Create Two, Three, Many Columbias!" The Doonesbury character Mark Slackmeyer was inspired by Rudd.

Revolutionary Youth Movement and Weather Underground
In 1969, as SDS membership grew rapidly, members' views concerning both goals and methods began to diverge widely. Rudd felt that SDS was not doing enough to protest the war in Vietnam. He was a leader of the Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM), a faction of SDS, which advocated a more militant course of action while other factions within SDS were becoming concerned about Rudd's increasingly vocal calls for violent confrontation and hardline Communist sentiments. The 1969 SDS convention effectively splintered and ended the organization. Rudd and other former RYM members ultimately formed Weatherman, a self-proclaimed "organization of communist women and men." The new organization was intent on overthrowing the government through violent actions. Spreading communism was a priority for the members of Weather, as when Rudd told other members of SDS, " Don't be timid about telling people we're Communist. Don't deny it, be proud of it."

Years underground
Rudd and other members of Weatherman participated in an SDS National Action on October 8–11, 1969, an event which became known as the Days of Rage. Charges filed against demonstrators following this action threatened the movement and its supporters. Rudd was demoted within the organization in January 1970.

Rudd, along with other prominent members of Weather, went underground in March 1970 following the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, an incident in which three members of the organization died when an explosive device, intended for a servicemen's ball, detonated prematurely. The dead were Terry Robbins, Diana Oughton, and Ted Gold, who was Rudd's friend and partner in RYM and the Columbia sit-ins.

Weatherman had already come to the attention of the FBI, but this explosion caused the members of Weatherman to take further precautions and to engage in more clandestine operations and according to some Weatherman members like Bill Ayers, build an underground revolutionary movement. According to Kirkpatrick Sale, Rudd was regarded as arrogant and politically ignorant by the other leaders, and was further demoted in the organization by the end of the year.

After the townhouse explosion, the government actively sought to apprehend Mark Rudd and twelve other members of the Weather Underground Organization (WUO). For seven years Rudd lived underground, although he was disengaged from the WUO for most of that time.

Reappearance
On September 14, 1977, Rudd turned himself in to authorities, tired of life as a fugitive. He had been living and working under an assumed name just a few miles from the Columbia campus in Brooklyn and was increasingly frustrated over his lifestyle which included his inability to see his family as well as working in manual labor jobs beneath his education. Due to FBI abuses against Vietnam protestors and others during the COINTELPRO program, Rudd could not be convicted of many of the crimes alleged in the original government complaint against him that led to his fugitive status. He received a small fine and ultimately spent less than one year in jail for all his crimes. His first public appearance was on campus, where he spoke to a crowd of hundreds of admiring students. He was not the firebrand the crowd expected, but he did participate in a march around the campus after the speech.

Later developments
In the summer of 1978, Rudd and his then-girlfriend, Sue LeGrand, moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico. During his time there he became an instructor of mathematics at Central New Mexico Community College (then known as the Albuquerque Technical Vocational Institute, or TVI). At the time he was hired and during his early employment at the college, Rudd's years as a student radical and Federal fugitive were almost unknown to his students and other faculty members who seldom asked if he was "that" Mark Rudd. Most of these individuals were of a different generation and the name "Mark Rudd" had ceased to be a household word. Rudd regarded this lack of critical attention with some disdain. In 1990, he published a memoir called Truth and Consequences: The Education of Mark Rudd, which detailed his life with SDS, the Columbia University riots, and his time as a fugitive.

Rudd was interviewed for the 2002 documentary, The Weather Underground, in which he stated that although the group's motivations, to end the Vietnam War and to oppose US imperialism, were justified, the violent actions performed in pursuit of those beliefs were questionable. He was the only former Weather member featured in the film that regretted his involvement in the group.

He opposed the United States-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Today Rudd lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico, with his wife, Marla (Painter). Rudd maintains a website called MarkRudd.com where he frequently posts essays and other writings, including his opinions on contemporary issues, and a personal appearance schedule. He travels around the country in support of the newly reborn Students for a Democratic Society. Rudd, along with Brian Kelly of Pace SDS, have helped establish ties between the new SDS and the Kent State University movement. He recently published another book on his time with SDS and The Weathermen called "Underground: My Life with the SDS and the Weathermen," which was published by Harper Collins in 2009 and is more a personal memoir on his life and times rather than a political statement as was his first book.

Documentary filmmaker Sam Green made a 2008 short entitled Clear Glasses, which focuses on a pair of glasses Rudd sent him.

In 2008, Rudd spoke about the Vietnam War era activities of SDS and his involvement in them for the award-winning documentary film Superpower by Barbara-Anne Steegmuller.

In 2020, Rudd appeared in the documentary film The Boys Who Said No!, which explores the anti-Vietnam War and draft resistance movement.

In 2024, he said of pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses against Israel's war on Gaza: "For me, it’s the most normal thing in the world to look at the murder of 34,000 people and the displacement of close to 2 million in Gaza and say, ‘Hey, stop!"

Works

 * Mark Rudd, Truth and Consequences: The Education of Mark Rudd, Grove Press, 1990, ISBN 978-0-8021-1269-9
 * Mark Rudd, Underground: My Life with SDS and the Weathermen, William Morrow, 2009, ISBN 978-0-06-147275-6

title: Mark Rudd