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Warnings/Promises

Warnings/Promises is the fourth studio album by Scottish rock band Idlewild, released on 7 March 2005 by Parlophone. Following the release of their third studio album The Remote Part (2002), Gavin Fox replaced bassist Bob Fairfoull, and touring guitarist Allan Stewart became a permanent member. They spent the majority of 2003 writing material, before traveling to Malmö, Sweden to record at Tambourine Studios with producer Dave Eringa. After finishing five tracks, they went to Los Angeles to work at Sunset Sound Recorders with producer Tony Hoffer. Due to the laidback nature of the sessions, the band had to re-record everything; recording concluded in October 2004. Described as an college rock and folk rock album, Warnings/Promises emphasized more acoustic instrumentation than its predecessor.

Warnings/Promises received generally favourable reviews from critics, some seeing it as a progression from The Remote Part, while others felt it was weaker than that album. The album charted at number five in Scotland, and number nine in the United Kingdom; it would later be certified silver in the latter territory. All three of its singles charted within the top 40 of the UK Singles Chart, with "Love Steals Us from Loneliness" reaching the highest at number 16. Bookended by two tours of the UK, "Love Steals Us from Loneliness" was released as the lead single from Warnings/Promises on 21 February 2005. The album's second single "I Understand It" was released on 2 May 2002. While appearing at various festivals, the band supported U2 and R.E.M. at several shows. In the midst of this, "El Capitan" was released as the third and final single from the album on 11 July 2005.

Background and writing
Idlewild released their third studio album The Remote Part in July 2002. It peaked at number two in the UK, while all of its four singles appeared within the top 30 of the UK Singles Chart, with "You Held the World in Your Arms" reaching the highest at number nine. They toured the United Kingdom five times (one tour supporting Coldplay), mainland Europe twice (one of which supporting Coldplay again), Australia, and the United States twice (one of which supporting Pearl Jam). Touring in support of The Remote Part: Despite the album receiving favourable press in the US, the band's American label Capitol Records declined to promote it in that territory. While this was occurring, the post-punk revival became mainstream, with fellow Scottish band Franz Ferdinand overtaking Idlewild's popularity. Bassist Bob Fairfoull left the band in October 2002, and was temporarily replaced by bass technician Alex Grant. The following month, Gavin Fox of Turn became the band's full-time bassist, and Allan Stewart, who had been part of the band's crew, became their second guitarist.
 * First UK tour:
 * Second UK tour:
 * Supporting Coldplay in UK and Europe:
 * Europe headlining tour:
 * Fourth UK tour:
 * Fifth UK tour:
 * Australian tour:
 * United States tours:

By December 2002, the band were in the process of writing material for their next album. It became their longest writing process up to this point due to including every member in it. The constant touring started becoming a strain on the members' health as they would have little time to rest in between tours. Idlewild spent the second half of 2003 writing material in the Scottish Highlands. They rented a house and set up all of their equipment there. It marked the first time that every member of the band contributed to the writing process, as previous releases were done for the most part between vocalist Roddy Woomble and guitarist Rod Jones. In retrospect, Jones felt they had "maybe too many song ideas" with "quite a lot of compromising going on". He added that they "weren't skilled enough with our communication skills at that point" to let Fox and Stewart offer more to the writing.

Production
Idlewild recorded with producer Dave Eringa and engineer Guy Massey at Tambourine Studios in Malmö, Sweden, where they had done five tracks. As their line-up had changed, and their songwriting had shifted, the band opted to record in a different location. Alongside this, they wanted a different producer than one they worked with on previous releases, when Tony Hoffer's name was suggested. They liked his work on Beck's albums; Hoffer proposed recording in California. Due to the favourable exchange rate, the band figured out that it would have cost the same to record there as it would have been in the UK. They travelled to Los Angeles, California to work with Hoffer and engineer Todd Burke in May 2004. The band spent some time at a rehearsal space in the city where they showed Hoffer the songs they had and deconstructed them. They rented a house in West Hollywood, California, and recorded at Sunset Sound Recorders. They spent their downtime traversing Big Sur and the Topanga Canyon. Hoffer drafted in additional musicians, such as Inara George and Greg Leisz, to enhance the recordings; George sung additional vocals on "Love Steals Us from Loneliness", "I Want a Warning", "Too Long Awake", and "Goodnight", while Leisz played pedal steel guitar on "Goodnight" and "Disconnected".

Idlewild played two one-off shows in July 2004 at a café in the city where they debuted songs from the forthcoming album. According to drummer Colin Newton, the band had been working at a leisurely pace over the course of three months, and "a lot of the time we were too intent on having a good time rather than working hard". The band ended up making music akin to stadium rock from the 1980s, with a large amount of overdubs and effects units in place, close to the work of AC/DC. Despite the album having been reportedly finished by August 2004, a direct result of the band's laidback approached saw them re-record each track, and finishing it in October 2004. They restarted with acoustic guitars; Woomble said Allan's playing style aided in changing the structure of the tracks. Hoffer is credited with producing nearly all of the album, except for "I Understand It", which was produced by Eringa. Michael Brauer mixed the recordings at Quad Studios in New York City, before the album was mastered by Chris Athens in November 2004. On the DVD that accompanies Scottish Fiction - Best of 1997-2007, there is a section titled The Making of Warnings/Promises, which includes interviews with the band members and their thoughts on the album.

Composition and lyrics
Musically, the sound of Warnings/Promises has been described as college rock and folk rock that strayed from the band's punk rock roots. Woomble said the band attempted to mesh their American influences, such as Superchunk and Hüsker Dü, with acts that they later discovered, such as the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield, adding in elements of country and folk music. Woomble said in contrast to Jones influencing the sound The Remote Part, Warnings/Promises had "more of my influence on it, bringing it into roots and folksy territories." Warnings/Promises expanded on the reflective nature of The Remote Part, showcasing more of an emphasis on acoustic instrumentation, such as acoustic guitars, piano, and string arrangements. Jones stated that the album is "more stripped back and direct" than previous releases, and that it has a sense of "frailty" to it. Discussing the title, Woomble said it relates to "contradictions that make up people. [...] I think we live our lives being promised about things, and being warned about things". He added that the songs dealt with said contradictions and "working your way through them, seeing both sides, understanding, and accepting them".

The opening track of Warnings/Promises, "Love Steals Us from Loneliness", is a power pop song that continues the sound of The Remote Part with its wall of guitars in vein of that album's opener "You Held the World in Your Arms". The power ballad "Welcome Home", which was reminiscent of "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" (2004) by Green Day, is followed by "I Want a Warning", which saw a return to the sound of the band's earlier releases. "I Understand It" includes vocal harmonies in the style of Crosby, Stills & Nash and elements of electronic music; the Teenage Fanclub-indebted "As If I Hadn't Slept" follows. "Too Long Awake" also returns to the band's roots, and originally started out as an acoustic song before being reworked in the studio. The ballad "Not Just Sometimes But Always" is another track that recalls the work of Teenage Fanclub, as well as ballads from the Britpop era. "The Space Between All Things" showcases Jones' guitar-playing ability, touching on progressive rock partway through. "El Capitan" features violins, acoustic guitarwork and piano, earning it a comparison to the work of Ben Folds Five. It uses the rock formation of the same name as a metaphor for different parts of people's lives. The R.E.M.-esque "Disconnected" is a mid-tempo ballad that has been compared to the work of Starsailor. The initial acoustic iteration of "Too Long Awake" serves as the album's hidden track, tacked onto the end of the closing song "Goodnight".

Release
On 30 November 2004, Warnings/Promises was announce for release in early 2005. In January 2005, the band played a short tour of the UK, consisting of four acoustic shows. "Love Steals Us from Loneliness" was released as a single on 21 February 2005. Two versions were released on CD: the first with "Gone Too Long", "Don't Let Me Change", and the music video for "Love Steals Us from Loneliness" (directed by Jamie Thraves), while the second included "Hold On to Your Breath". The video is a homage to films by Jean-Luc Godard. Newton said the band struggled to persuade Parlophone to release the song as the first single; he felt it "perfectly bridges where we were with the last album and where we are now". Warnings/Promises was released by Parlophone on 7 March 2005; the album booklet includes a quote from Richard Brautigan. To promote the album, the band did a series of in-store acoustic performances. In April and May 2005, the band embarked on a full-band electric UK tour.

"I Understand It" was released as a single on 2 May 2005. Two versions were released on CD: the first with a cover of "Pleasure and Pain" (1992) by Ben Harper, an acoustic version of "Love Steals Us from Loneliness", and the music video for "I Understand It" (directed by Thraves), while the second featured "The Work We Never Do". Between June and August 2005, the band played a series of festivals, including Isle of Wight, Summer Sundae, and V, interspersed with supporting U2 and R.E.M. for a few shows each. During this, "El Capitan" was released as a single on 11 July 2005. Two versions were released on 7" vinyl: the first with an acoustic version of "The Bronze Medal", while the second included a cover of "Winter Is Blue" (1967) by Vashti Bunyan, and an acoustic version of "El Capitan". The music video for "El Capitan" was directed by Sam Arthur. "As If I  Hadn't Slept" was scheduled for release as a single, though was cancelled when the band left Parlophone.

Warnings/Promises was played in full in December 2008 at King Tut's Wah Wah Hut in Glasgow as part of a series of shows where the band performed all of their albums. "Love Steals Us from Loneliness", "El Capitan", "I Understand It", and "As If I Hadn't Slept" were included on the band's first compilation album, Scottish Fiction: Best of 1997–2007 (2007), alongside the music videos for all of the album's singles. "Love Steals Us from Loneliness", "El Capitan", "Too Long Awake", and "Not Just Sometimes But Always" were included on the band's third compilation album, The Collection (2010).

Reception
Warnings/Promises was met with generally favourable reviews from music critics. At Metacritic, which assigns a normalized rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream publications, the album received an average score of 66, based on 20 reviews.

AllMusic reviewer John D. Luerssen said the album "feels even more adventurous" than their past albums "this time out". He added that the way the band have been operating "may have kept them out of the limelight until now, but it's only a matter of time" until they return to prominence. In a review for NME, Mark Beaumont wrote that "where The Remote Part was their 'Green'-esque lunge into the spotlight, Warnings/Promises is their full-blown 'Out of Time' spectacular. But with less twangle, more teeth." The staff at E! Online expanded on this R.E.M. comparison, stating that it "doesn't quite have any melodies that rival 'Losing My Religion' or even 'All the Way to Reno,' for that matter". Drowned in Sound Gareth Dobson saw it as "the work of a band pushing itself to the limits of its generous, but ultimately not boundless musical ability". He added that the band's decision to make an album of "such landmark size and scope has finally stripped the Icarus Woomble of his wings". In a review for Rolling Stone, Rob Sheffield wrote that the album was "even better" than the preceding one, "a set of hopeless love songs for sad-eyed city girls".

Yahoo! Launch Anna Britten said the band's choice to let all of the members write material is a "ghastly idea, yielding gutless musical porridge that thrills no-one". She clarified that the album "isn’t quite that bad, but it’ll disappoint any red-blooded rock lover expecting a cavalry charge." Betty Clarke of The Guardian wrote that the album is a "slightly awkward composite of the band's old strengths and a flurry of new ideas", while Wooble's lyrics have "sunk deeper into disillusion". Pitchfork contributor Jason Crock said the album follows the "same direction" as the previous one: "the work of a polished radio-ready rock band, and if I had to sum it up in a word, it'd be 'comfortable. Stylus writer Nick Southall saw it as a "back-to-basics" effort where the band's "unbound fury became passion and then became earnestness". In spite of this, none of the tracks featured "melodies which lodge themselves"; he highlighted a B-side "A Distant History" from one of their earlier singles as being "better than anything here." Robert Christgau considered the album a "dud".

Warnings/Promises charted at number five in Scotland, and number nine in the UK. It also reached number 50 in Ireland. "Love Steals Us from Loneliness" charted at number six in Scotland, number 16 in the UK, and number 37 in Ireland. "I Understand It" charted at number 32 in the UK. "El Capitan" charted at number 39 in the UK. Warnings/Promises was certified silver by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI). The Village Voice included the album on their Pazz & Jop Albums of 2005 list at number 245.

Track listing
All songs written by Idlewild.

 * 1) "Love Steals Us from Loneliness" – 3:12
 * 2) "Welcome Home" – 3:15
 * 3) "I Want a Warning" – 3:35
 * 4) "I Understand It" – 3:20
 * 5) "As If I Hadn't Slept" – 3:36
 * 6) "Too Long Awake" – 3:07
 * 7) "Not Just Sometimes But Always" – 3:33
 * 8) "The Space Between All Things" – 4:12
 * 9) "El Capitan" – 3:57
 * 10) "Blame It on Obvious Ways" – 3:24
 * 11) "Disconnected" – 3:51
 * 12) "Goodnight" – 8:06 (includes hidden track "Too Long Awake (reprise)")

Personnel
Personnel per booklet.

Idlewild
 * Gavin Fox – bass
 * Rod Jones – guitar
 * Colin Newton – drums
 * Allan Stewart – guitar
 * Roddy Woomble – vocals

Additional musicians
 * Inara George – additional vocals (tracks 1, 3, 6 and 12)
 * Greg Leisz – pedal steel guitar (tracks 5 and 11)
 * Paul Maroon – piano (track 5)

Production and design
 * Tony Hoffer – producer
 * Todd Burke – engineer
 * Dave Eringa – producer (track 4)
 * Guy Massey – engineer (track 4)
 * Michael Brauer – mixing
 * Chris Athens – mastering
 * The Head of State – artwork
 * Roddy Woomble – photography
 * Jennifer Juniper Strattford – photography

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Warnings/Promises


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Talk:Shinn Asuka

Discussion and Opinions: Anti Hero Status
Hi again, I want to discuss now about the anti-hero status:

 * He is considered by some of the internal cast and external viewers as one of the principal "bad guys" due to the fact that he opposes the established "heroes" from the original SEED.

It's true that he is considered by a lot of viewers (Fans) that he is the most bad guy ever in this series, although other people don't think that, I don't think that he is a bad guy for that reason, I think that this is the opinion of the fans that hate him; you see how Kira was selfish in the start of the series, he was destroying everything and fighting anyone; while Shinn was doing good things with his friends, they were fighting EA all the time, while Kira was a hindrance for their works. For that, I don't think that Shinn is a bad guy because he defeated Kira; if Kira wasn't defeated, who knows what will happen to ZAFT or EA? They will be eliminated if Kira beats anyone(Athrun, Heine, Stellar, Sting) who can stand in his way, as well as the new hero and his friends. Also, Dullindal and EA will lose, while Kira will win, so I don't think that he is a bad guy because he beats Kira.

I know why some people call him a bad guy it's because they hate him, Everyone said that he is a bad guy because he was fighting Athrun and his aims were against Athrun's and Kira's aims but he isn't a bad guy for that reason you saw how he was fighting against EA and when ORB sheltered Djibril, Cagalli and others wanted to rescue themselves in any way even if it's wrong and you saw how Athrun accuse him that he wanted to destroy ORB while he wasn't wanted that ever he was fighting to kill Djibril, And about the last battle Shinn fought Athrun because he knows that if he doesn't fight him Athrun will be a big reason why ZAFT will be defeated and then ORB and Terminal who stand against them and started the fight so they must defend their aims.

even though the series is presented from his perspective

No, not the all series I think that after ep34 which means the full protagonist switch the series was presented from the POV of Kira, Athrun, Lacus and what their friends want, you saw how Shinn was screwed and thrown in the back like he is a side character.

 It is a subject of still-ongoing heated debate if the "Destiny Plan" was such a bad thing and if ORB were justified in their actions

And if Shinn is the bad guy it means that he was wrong in everything so when he was fighting EA he was wrong and then why Shinn is wrong why it's not Kira and Athrun who are wrong and the bad guys or does it means that if you are the hero you are right every time and the others are wrong, Kira and his friends were against ZAFT every time and they don't love it(except Athrun at the start of the series) Kira with his friends were fighting anyone in the start and Kira blamed ZAFT why they tried to shot down Archangel and him like they weren't a hindrance for ZAFT and a reason of why ZAFT lost some of their units and after Dullindal announced Destiny Plan you see how they refuse it without knowing the aim of it as I still remember ORB and Scandinavia were the only nations who refuse the plan(correct me if I'm wrong) so if the other EA nation agree why they don't want Dullindal to complete his work, Yes Not because I hate ORB and others and not because I support Shinn and ZAFT but it's because ORB and terminal wanted a war against Dullindal while he doesn't want that war, If Destiny Plan is plan for peace that everyone want and if Dullindal design this plan to create a world where Naturals and Coordinators can live together in peace why ORB doesn't want a something good or it's the un-trust of ZAFT and Dullindal.

And that what Fukuda and his wife said in an interview.

*Shinn seems to have realized that he's wrong during the final confrontation against Athrun have you ever thought of the possibility that he may go to Kira's side?

'''*Fukuda : I have absolutely no such intention right from the start, because I always want to create a story where in the end Shinn loses everything except Luna maria. I hope people don't misunderstand it, I don't think Shinn is incorrect (unjust? wrong?) at all. What Shinn and Dullindal have done are all for the good of the world, on the other hand Kira's side is the one which has somewhat deviated from the path of justice.'''

*What is the Destiny Plan? '''*By checking the person's genes, we can determine what sort of job the person is fit for, and everything else about this person. There be no conflicts and displeasure if all employment was based on results of genetic analysis. The Destiny Plan is a plan to achieve this form of society. Dullindal really would've liked people to accept this Plan out of their own choice, rather than strictly enforce it. Dullindal probably was planning for it since SEED.''' Astrys 01:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Err, I can say many things about your opinion, but the usage of discussion in this Wikipedia is not to discuss the topic itself but about the article. In my opinion your question is about the topic not about how to improve the topic. We should do this in another forum. I am sorry that I have to reply like this.

 * I will refer to Help:Talk page:

 * "The purpose of a talk page is to help to improve the contents of the article in question. Questions, challenges, excised text (due to truly egregious confusion or bias, for example), arguments relevant to changing the text, and commentary on the main page are all fair play.

 * Wikipedians generally oppose the use of talk pages just for the purpose of partisan talk about the main subject. Wikipedia is not a soapbox; it's an encyclopedia. In other words, talk about the article, not about the subject. It's only the habits we encourage that keep Wikipedia from turning into a slanging match. "

 * I don't know if that is not your intention. If so, forgive me to mistakenly taking your point.

 * Anyway, the sentence: " he is considered ..." , means that some (or a few) other may consider otherwise. I have added: at least in early episodes to sentence : even though the series.
 * Draconins 02:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know from any way you understand my point, I tried to write the things that I don't agree with and replying it by what I think that's everything, Like to say that even he was considered that he is a bag guy but he is not a bad guy what I mean that this was said by the fans so you can write that he is not the bad guy in the series referring to Fukuda's interview and about from whom POV the series was presented, The series was presented from Shinn's POV until ep34 but after that it's Kira's role and that's why there was a protagonist switch and you saw how the importance was turn from ZAFT to ORB, Terminal(Kira and his friend) then Shinn was seen as a failure or mistake (wrong) in the last episodes what he say or do without any agree and that's was described very very well in the last episode so we can't or we mustn't say that all the series was presented from Shinn's POV it's just until the ep34, And about Destiny Plan and if ORB were justified I wrote what's my opinion and just as I know in every anime series that I watched it if anyone want to do a good thing everyone(or the most) will listen to him so if anyone didn't agree with he will consider as a selfish and that's what I believe from I saw when I watched the series I think that ORB were selfish in their acts, However I'm sorry if I done a bad thing and I don't think that you done a bad thing it's maybe me how used the wrong way sorry for this again but I tried to improve this section from the article and nothing else if you know a better way tell me or I think that it's better to discuss in our talk pages and you may write your opinion about what I wrote before.Astrys 19:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Can you find source for the interview? It may be added if it is needed. However, whatever Fukuda says, is a fact, that he is considered as anti-hero by many (from what i know, it including some staffs). So you may need some sentence like this: although Fukuda say he is not an anti hero, many consider otherwise....... while referring to citation above. I also know that even Japanese and American anime and film reviewer put him as villain of series.

 * And about: "if anyone want to do a good thing , everyone(or the most) will listen to him. so if anyone didn't agree with him will consider as a selfish.", I completely disagree with this sentence. About the other (about ORB, etc), I can not say anything as it violates Help:Talk page, which is discussion about topic, not the article. Hope it helps.
 * Draconins 03:00, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Q. Why has Shinn Asuka always gone berserk beyond comprehension, and gone on into a killing rampage because his feelings and hatred about failing to protect someone he holds dear, and attempt to kill every person he deems to be his nemesis? Has he had no shame?The Professional 22:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Chao-Chen Jack Lin, Surrey, BC, Canada.
 * Taekwondo Master Lin 2006. 10. 31., 2:11 PM (Pacific Standard Time)

Umm.. do you people understand what an anti-hero is? 203.109.207.33 18:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

 * It isn't POV that Shinn is an anti-hero. It's a fact. Anti-heroes are not villains, quite the opposite. They are still protagonists.

What an anti-hero is. The article here on Wikipedia here defines it as: "In fiction, an anti-hero is a protagonist who is lacking the traditional heroic attributes and qualities, and instead possesses character traits that are antithetical to heroism." I think that Shinn has (as justifiable as they may or may not be) severe anger management issues, some emotional issues, and a good deal of rage within him until nearly the end of the series. Anger, unbridled hatred, mental instability, and rage are not heroic qualities. He is also relatively emotionally unstable/inexperienced when compared to Athrun or Kira (other series male protagonists). Considering all of this, I think at very least we are left with no choice but to consider Shinn as an anti-hero. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.158.192 (talk) 19:23, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A question, if Shinn is an anti-hero then why is he called a hero/villain on his home page shouldn't we just simply call him a anti-hero? Oh and one more Shinn is an anti-hero but possesses some heroic qualities and lastly since he watch his family die his been emotionally tramutized who wouldn't be. --0Neosis (talk) 19:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to list Shinn as an anti-hero, you need to provide reliable sources, not personal opinions. His being emotionally traumatized has nothing to do with whether he is an anti-hero. Edward321 (talk) 23:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay if you want proof then here it is:
 * This searches are to discover with Shinn is an hero, villain, hero/villain, or antihero and here are the results, P.S. these searchs were done myself personally on Google.

 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="Shinn Asuka hero" - 17,400 hits
 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="Shinn Asuka villain" - 2,150 hits
 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="Shinn Asuka hero/villain" - 1,670 hits
 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="Shinn Asuka anti-hero" - 21,900 hits (If you type in anti hero its 2,470 hits, if you type in anithero its 1,270 hits)

There you have it by the general public's opinions, Shinn Asuka is without question an anti-hero by most of the people. However I will wait for your next course of action before I change anything; if you need anything else contact me on my talkpage.--0Neosis (talk) 20:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

 * A Google search is not a reliable source. --Farix (Talk) 21:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

 * It is a reliable because many other wikipedia pages have used google as a source for pages.--0Neosis (talk) 17:05, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't by that at all. Not to justify original research. --

Farix (Talk) 17:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Well that's just your opinion and I'll respect it.--0Neosis (talk) 17:50, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Tragic Hero
I think Shinn is tragic hero I mean I know he didn't die but his ending was somewhat tragic, besides you think I guy like him who lost his entire family and be emotionally scarred buy war would have a better ending than another tragedy. I agree with you I think Shinn is tragic hero because possese a naive and trusting personality as well as his anger which are his qualitys of tragic hero such as his belief in the Chairman and Rey and their manpulation of forcing him to through away his gentle nature and his habit of acting on his emotions and anger rather than his personally judgement, so know doubt from begging to end he possed those types of qualitys, I do hope however if there is another Gundam SEED series we well see a better fate for Shinn than that of a Tragic Hero.

 * Please sign your posts 206.248.248.221, Tylerwade123. Also, please read the definition of Tragic Hero, Shinn does not meet it.  While Shinn's beginning is a tragedy, how can his ending possible considered a tragic ending?  Shinn gets the girl and all the people he thought he'd killed while being manipulated survive and the man that decieved him is destroyed and his homeland is not destroyed. The qualities you list - naive, trusting, angry, acting on emotion - are not specific to tragic heroes.  Oedipus is neither niave nor trusting, he is not manipulated by others - he ends up blind and insane, with his wife dead by her own hand.  Take a look at the other classic example of tragic heros and you will see Shinn's ending is not tragic and he does not meet the definition. Edward321 (talk) 15:11, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

He may not be a tragic hero but I do believe he is a tragic person.--206.248.226.88 (talk) 02:11, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the Aristotle definition in the link actually fits pretty well. He "evokes in the audience a sense of pity or fear" well enough, the "the change of fortune presented isn't the spectacle of a virtuous man brought from prosperity to adversity", and Shinn IS a virtuous man who just get manipulated. He IS easy to relate to and does invoke the idea that what happened to him could happen to ANYONE. Sure, the redemption at the end was a Christian idea added in the Middle Ages and not a Greek one, but the lack of redemption was never a key tenet of the Tragic Hero. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.219.51 (talk) 16:21, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Unsourced Statement about Shinn's shift
It is stated: Shinn's shift from hero to anti-hero over the course of the series was purportedly influenced by the fact that his seiyuu, Kenichi Suzumura, somehow offended scriptwriter Chiaki Morosawa early in production, causing her to intentionally make his character less likeable.

Is that statement correct? I never found source stated these. Draconins 09:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I've been taking the original Japanese names (鈴村健一 / 両澤千晶 are Kenichi Suzumura / Chiaki Morosawa) and did a translated Google with them. And there were some things about "being chummy" with Athrun Zala's voice actor and this:

"Half year after the movement soldier Gundam SEED DESTINY' ending, not to insert the work of television animation excessively, it devoted to only DJ of radio program, because (Shinn Asuka was played, is not)."

(Original Link) http://wpedia.search.goo.ne.jp/search/%A5%B7%A5%F3%A1%A6%A5%A2%A5%B9%A5%AB/detail.html?LINK=1&kind=epedia

(Translated) http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://wpedia.search.goo.ne.jp/search/%25A5%25B7%25A5%25F3%25A1%25A6%25A5%25A2%25A5%25B9%25A5%25AB/detail.html%3FLINK%3D1%26kind%3Depedia&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E9%2588%25B4%25E6%259D%2591%25E5%2581%25A5%25E4%25B8%2580%2B%25E4%25B8%25A1%25E6%25BE%25A4%25E5%258D%2583%25E6%2599%25B6%26start%3D90%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

I'm hoping that none of what's been stated is true. But if it is, then the reputation of Mitsuo Fukuda and Chiaki Morosawa outside of Japan...

Since when, in the entertainment field other than rap music, is it allowable to make a character less likable after the creator of said character gets into a hissy-fit over what's been said by someone who will play the character? Don't grown-ups usually settle their arguments away from the audience as oppose to stooping as low as defaming those with talent? Last I checked, that's the job of the audience and the audience alone.

Tyrenol 17:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Did anything on that link actually answer Dragonins' question? I am having a hard time understanding the connection. It does sound like an unsourced statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.219.51 (talk) 16:24, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Fictional psychopaths category
I've realized that a good deal of characters from Gundam Seed are listed under "fictional psychopaths". Would that many characters actually be apperopriate for that category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.162.73 (talk • contribs)

 * Well, it really depends on the character. If you feel the need, go to the pages, read the content and remove—if necessary—accordingly per the actual defintion of the word. I'm not sure, but I think Shinn is arguably a psychopath. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 20:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The categories are another massively POV attempt by people who dislike the character to skew this article. Shinn never "turned evil", as the director himself has explicitly stated, and he can't be considered a "psychopath" or "mass murderer" by any remotely rational standard. If Shinn qualifies as those things, then so does every soldier who ever lived. 71.203.209.0 05:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I honestly wouldn't know, but I'll make some changes per these concerns. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 05:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh. Already removed. Hmm. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 05:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced

 * The name Shinn Asuka is a reference to the Asuka period in Japan's history, just as Kira Yamato was a reference to the Yamato period which immediately preceded it.
 * The names of the anti-ship swords of Shinn's two mobile suits may reflect Shinn's status in the series. The Sword Impulse's weapon, deemed "Excalibur" (King Arthur's sword), reflected him as a hero. The Destiny's weapon, deemed "Arondight" (Sir Lancelot's sword), showed him falling into an anti-hero classification, as Lancelot in Arthurian lore was once a hero that became an enemy.

Does anyone have any sources to show that these similarities aren't original research, and are indeed intended by the creators? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The First, I remember that I read both from interviews with Fukuda. The Second, I don't know. Draconins 11:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Shinn's given name means heart —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 06:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Or servant or pencil lead or temple or candle wick or sleep or... Edward321 (talk) 15:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Another Interesting note is that Shinn is the first anti-hero protagonist in a gundam series. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 04:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Shinn is no more of an anti-hero than Amuro Ray or Kamille Bidan Edward321 (talk) 15:09, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry but Shinn is to an anti-hero compared to any other Gundam protagonist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 03:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Many fans believe the that Shinn is based off Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam protagonist Kamille Bidan. Tylerwade123
 * Unless you can find a sourced citation from someone involved in cration of the series, that is just unsourced opnion and has no place on Wikipedia. Please read the guidelines on reliable sources. Edward321 (talk) 05:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Shinn Asuka


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alam Payind

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was Deleted as copyvio. -- Jonel | Speak 06:22, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Alam Payind
Vanity page, for the most part a direct reproduction of his existing cv page. --MC MasterChef 21:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Then use WP:CP, not WP:VFD. (The web site's home page states "Copyright 2001-2004 Middle East Studies Center @ The Ohio State University".) Uncle G 22:41, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Ok, listed it under copyvios, but the CV was the only really substantive part of the article; do I remove it from the VfD list or no? --MC MasterChef 23:28, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete copyvio. JamesBurns 10:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
User:Steven Watson

Oh, look, I'm on Wikipedia.

Talk to me here.

Special:Contributions/Steven Watson

I can't contribute as much time as I'd like to, so I mostly limit myself to checking for typos, grammar, and style issues. I try not to make arbitrary edits, but I can't possibly be aware of all of the regional variations of English spelling and puncutation—so please forgive me if I mistakenly "correct" something that's fine in Australia or India (maybe post on my talk page so I can learn from my mistakes).

title: User:Steven Watson


text:
Eureka Farm

Eureka Farm was a band from Bellingham, Washington. It began in 1996 with members Arman Bohn (songwriter/guitar), Ben Gibbard (drums), and Nick Harmer (bass). During this time the band went by the name "Shed". Gibbard left the band and was replaced by Jason McGerr (drums) in 1996. The band changed its name to "Eureka Farm" in 1997. Harmer was replaced by Chuck Keller (bass) in 1997, and Caspar Sonnet (keys, alto saxophone, and bass clarinet) joined in 1998.

Band members

 * Arman Bohn (guitar, vocals)
 * Jason McGerr (drums, vocals)
 * Nick Harmer (bass, vocals)
 * Chuck Keller (bass, vocals)
 * Caspar Sonnet (alto saxophone, bass clarinet, keyboards, vocals)

After Eureka Farm

 * Bohn completed his first solo album "Bits" in 2009.
 * Bohn and Sonnet played as The Misadventures of Two from 2005-2006.
 * Sonnet completed his first solo album "Identify" in 2013 released on Marriage Records
 * Keller is in the band Virgin Islands.
 * Gibbard, McGerr, and Harmer are in the band Death Cab for Cutie.

Discography

 * The View (1999)
 * Analog (1997)

title: Eureka Farm


text: User talk:216.138.211.80

title: User talk:216.138.211.80


text:
Richard Rose (mystic)

Richard Stephen Rose (March 14, 1917 – July 6, 2005) was an American mystic, esoteric philosopher, author, poet, and investigator of paranormal phenomena. He published a number of books and spoke widely in universities and other venues across the country during the 1970s and 1980s.

Rose developed a system which he described as the "retreat from untruth" an examination of personal belief systems and lifestyles. In that system one discards what one finds to be false on a case-by-case basis. He believed a spiritual "Ultimate truth" exists and can be found for oneself with sufficient application of effort, and recommended skeptical approaches such as his.

He studied human psychology, human weakness and human potential, then wrote challenges to psychology, psychiatry, religion, academia, the legal system, and the New Age movement. His criticism included issues of group-think, dogmatism, financial motives, emotional appeals, and reliance on questionable authorities.

Biography
Richard Stephen Rose was born in Benwood, West Virginia, United States. He entered a Catholic pre-seminary in Butler, Pennsylvania at age 12. He later recounted his delight at the prospect of living with monks and nuns who he believed had direct connection to God but that he was disillusioned by their insistence on blind faith acceptance of what they taught. He left the seminary at age 17, still looking for God, and in college turned toward the study of science as a possible avenue to discovering the nature of reality. Here too he was disillusioned, losing hope that God or Truth might be found through science. After college, he moved around the U.S. in a series of jobs such as on the first nuclear submarine at Babcock & Wilcox in Alliance, Ohio; on streptomycin at the National Jewish Medical & Research Center in Denver; and performing metallurgical testing for Martin Aircraft in Baltimore.

While living in Baltimore, his older brother James was killed on a Merchant Marine vessel when it was torpedoed by a German U-boat. This death provided a huge shock to Rose, who contrasted his brother's selfless attitude to his own spiritual ego.

Rose was working in the spring of 1947 as a waiter at a tennis club in Seattle when he experienced what he described as "God Realization". Several months later, he wrote a description of what had occurred in The Three Books of the Absolute.

A few years later he married and raised a family. He supported the family as a painting contractor and by raising cattle on the family farm. He worked with people who were interested in parapsychological phenomena such as ESP and hypnosis, but said he never came across anyone working to answer questions about the nature of the mind and reality. During this period he compiled his first book, The Albigen Papers, outlining his philosophy, but it was not published until 1973.

In 1972 Rose was invited to give a talk at the Theosophical Society in Pittsburgh. Two students from the University of Pittsburgh attended, and they were inspired to start a group at the university to apply Rose's teaching. In 1973, Rose and a handful of students set up the TAT Foundation — "a circle of friends with no head" — to promote their efforts to reach out to others. The acronym TAT stood for "Truth and Transmission." The Pittsburgh group spawned groups at other northeastern universities and even a couple of western locations (Denver and Los Angeles). Rose made his farm available for group gatherings and individual retreats, and students built two large buildings for meetings as well as cabins for individual use. The following two decades saw hundreds of people inspired to launch their own spiritual searches.

Rose continued to write and publish while his study groups expanded. His public lectures continued until the early 1990s, when he started to show signs of deterioration from Alzheimer's disease.

Teachings
Richard Rose's widow, Betty (Cecy) Rose still keeps the writings and audio lectures of her late husband widely available to seekers all across the globe. Her correspondence with enquirers also continues through Richard Rose Teachings (www.richardroseteachings.com), a site dedicated to both his publications and those of others that he recommended to his students. Rose Publications also continues to distribute his writings.

Rose's student David Gold described his work as esoteric and direct. Rose chose not to establish a popular movement of students, instead preferring a sub-rosa network of close students, who then reached out to a larger circle, which included author Joseph Chilton Pearce.

He came from humble roots, then studied as a scientist. His teachings were based on a lifetime of experience and research, and in particular an experience when he was thirty. Joseph Chilton Pearce described him: "Rose is a no-nonsense West Virginian who wants nothing more from life than to somehow pass on the cataclysmic spiritual experience, the Enlightenment that blind-sided him when he was a young man."

Tenets
His student John Kent felt Rose's teachings were difficult to describe, because Rose stressed inner work inherently subjective and intimate to each individual. They were more about pursuing personal insight and introspection than a set of specific techniques. Nonetheless, according to Kent, Rose did formulate a system of teachings based on his study of other traditions and his own insights. Kent summarized the core questions in the teachings as:
 * 1) Who am I (ultimately)?
 * 2) Where did I come from (before birth)?
 * 3) Where am I going (after death)?

Rose recommends a deep investigation of "who" is living and experiencing: clearly defining self and ego. He also insisted that a life of activity is meaningless as long as the identity of the actor is not known. He thought approaching spirituality as a way to find peace or enhance one's life, which he called "utilitarian," was foolish. Instead he advocated total dedication to a search for truth — in particular concerning self and ego — in spite of the personal consequences.

He used the term "Jacob's Ladder" (image) as a kind of transpersonal map. Based on that, he then used the terms "Law of the Ladder" and "Ladder Work" to describe different levels he observed among those seeking truth. He also believed that one could only effectively help, or be helped by, others who were on the same or adjacent rungs of the ladder. He felt "extra-proportional returns" were realized when a group of people combine their efforts in any endeavor, which he called the "Contractor's Law".

Rose cautioned against postulating what truth — with respect to self and ego, for example — should be and then trying to move toward it. Instead one removes misunderstandings. His working definition of truth was "a condition from which all untruth has been removed." He used the phrases "retreat from error" and "reverse vector" to describe the process of moving away from the most obviously false, what he called "garbage," which would clarify the thinking and intuition to a point where more subtle untruth could be evaluated.

He published The Albigen Papers in 1973, which he called a guidebook for seekers. His theories about the transmutation of energy from the body through the mind up to what he called the "spiritual quantum," were published after that and similar to some recent theories describing the mind as a force-field. He produced a pamphlet on a method of meditation involving the dispassionate review of past traumatic events as a way to overcome psychological problems and to understand the ego. His book Psychology of the Observer encapsulated his views on the structure of mind-processes and what he described as the internal ascent from a personal, conflicted view of the world to a more Universal perspective.

He was a hypnotist, occasionally giving demonstrations, and said that understanding hypnotism was a key to understanding the mechanics of the mind. His criticism of spiritual and New Age movements often included references to their use of self-hypnotic methods.

Recommended Study
His student John Kent described the culmination of Rose's philosophy as corresponding "most closely with the nondualism of Advaita Vedanta". But Kent also writes that rather than presenting a concept-structure or a specific practice upon which his teachings could be based Rose instead advocated personal immersion into available methods and religious styles while always applying what he called "respectful doubt." Consequently, his followers obtained an understanding of a wide number of esoteric groups and methods, which they were able to bring back and share among themselves. Rose also believed that progress on one's spiritual path was linked to one's efforts at helping others.

Rose recommended a number of authors to his students and disparaged other authors, based on his research. Those he most highly recommended were Indian guru Ramana Maharshi, Chan master Huang Po, Christian mystics St. John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, George Gurdjieff, and researchers Paul Brunton and Richard Bucke. In Albigen Papers he described H.P. Blavatsky's books as "some of the most valuable a student can own," and in his publication of Profound Writings East & West, called her text Book of Golden Precepts (also Voice of the Silence) as "a condensed guide to the deepest teachings of mankind." Rose advocated the study of what he called thaumaturgical laws as a means to protect oneself from unseen influences, for anyone who would explore the dimensions of consciousness ("the mind dimension"), referring to texts by Eliphas Levi and others.

Teaching Style and Methods
According to Kent, Rose advocated a very personal commitment similar to Gurdjieff and he discouraged casual commitment. Aspects of his style which discouraged casual commitment included: a Zen-like method of confrontation, recommending a celibate lifestyle, and strong criticism of what he described as social and political sacred cows. In personal interactions he would attempt to dispel illusions and falsehoods that students were hiding from themselves. This sharpness caused his students to call him a Zen master, even though he was highly critical of mainstream Zen. In fact, the first group established by Rose was called Zen Study Group, in Pittsburgh, reflecting his embrace of Zen methods, and other groups were called Pyramid Zen Society, an admission that those interested in total commitment would be few (the top of the pyramid) as explained in various recorded talks. He felt that requiring students to be determined would produce a more committed group of thinkers and researchers.

Rose gave a series of lectures in the 1970s which outlined his approach to Zen and which incorporated the term Zen in the title: The Psychology of Zen; Zen and Common Sense; Zen and Death; etc. Several of these have been transcribed from the audio tapes and published. He published for limited circulation a paper titled The Monitor Papers which established rules, guidelines and techniques to be observed during confrontation in the private group meetings where confrontation was permitted.

Rose had a high regard for Alfred Pulyan, a Zen teacher in Connecticut, who gave him a method of Transmission referred to in Zen literature. Rose wrote a handbook for local group leaders, The Monitor Papers, currently unpublished, giving instructions on how to create rapport, which in his view is a precursor to Transmission, and he published Energy Transmutation, Between-ness and Transmission in 1975.

Stemming from his investigations into Spiritualism, in his early lectures he often related his findings on paranormal phenomena.

Influence
He worked closely with groups, beginning with university students and professional people, mostly in the Northeast (e.g. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Massachusetts, Maryland, West Virginia). Over time, as the students graduated and entered professional lives, groups were also established in Colorado, California, North Carolina, Florida, and Maine. After he was hospitalized with Alzheimer's in the mid 1990s, many of the organizations failed, but some continued - notably, the Self Knowledge Symposium founded by August Turak at universities in North Carolina.

His followers believe he never pursued widespread popularity. Members of the TAT Foundation, the current umbrella organization, are dispersed geographically. People may attend study groups without becoming actual members of the umbrella group.

New Vrindaban
In 1967, Rose attempted to create an ashram of spiritual seekers on his Marshall County, West Virginia farm, and composed a letter which was published in the San Francisco Oracle expressing his desire to try "to form an ashram of sorts here in West Virginia, in the rural section where I own about a half a section. The conception is one of a non-profit, non-interfering, non-denominational, retreat or refuge, where philosophers might come to work communally together, or independently,—where a library and other facilities might be developed.",

Among the seekers who responded to his letter were Hare Krishna devotees Kirtanananda Swami (Keith Gordon Ham) and his partner Hayagriva Das (Howard Morton Wheeler). The two secured a 99-year lease on Rose's backwoods farm which eventually developed into the sprawling New Vrindaban Community which eventually included Prabhupada's Palace of Gold, and this community pressed against Rose's farm from all sides. When Rose attempted to fight the Krishnas in court and win back his land for non-payment of taxes, there was some talk at the community about "eliminating" him, and a hit man allegedly followed him for a while. Despite his troubles with the Krishnas, Rose reportedly never expressed outright regret over his decision to lease his back farm to them. "In some ways the Krishnites are better to have around than the hillbillies," Rose said once. "At least they don't get drunk and steal the radiators out of your trucks."

Publications

 * Albigen Papers, 1973, 1978 ISBN 1-878683-00-4, ISBN 1-878683-07-1
 * Energy Transmutation, Between-ness and Transmission, 1975 ISBN 1-878683-02-0
 * Psychology of the Observer, 1979, 2001 ISBN 1-878683-06-3
 * Meditation, 1981 Pyramid Press
 * Carillon: Poems, Essays & Philosophy, 1982 ISBN 1-878683-03-9
 * The Direct-Mind Experience, 1985 ISBN 1-878683-01-2
 * Profound Writings, East & West, 1988 ISBN 1-878683-05-5
 * "The Three Books of the Absolute" appears in The Albigen Papers and in Profound Writings, East & West.

title: Richard Rose (mystic)


text: Category:Dentists

title: Category:Dentists


text:
User talk:Woseph

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:04, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Woseph


text:
Oneonta Gorge

Oneonta Gorge is a scenic gorge located in the Columbia River Gorge area of the American state of Oregon. The U.S. Forest Service has designated it as a botanical area because of the unique aquatic and woodland plants that grow there. Exposed walls of 25-million-year-old (Miocene epoch) basalt are home to a wide variety of ferns, mosses, hepatics, and lichens, many of which grow only in the Columbia River Gorge. Oneonta Gorge with its 50 species of wildflowers, flowering shrubs and trees has been described as "one of the true dramatic chasms in the state." The Oneonta Gorge Creek Bridge is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

There are four major waterfalls on Oneonta Creek as it runs through the gorge. Middle Oneonta Falls can be seen clearly from a footpath and is very often mistaken for the upper or lower falls. The lower gorge (a slot canyon) has been preserved as a natural habitat, so there is no boardwalk or footpath through it as such. Thus, Lower Oneonta Falls can only be seen by walking upstream from the creek's outlet at the Historic Columbia River Highway. To get to a vantage point where the entire lower falls is visible may require wading through water that in some places can be shoulders-deep, depending on the season and the relative amount of snow melt. The upper falls are about a mile upstream from the middle falls and require scrambling up the creek or climbing down a canyon wall to view. The fourth falls which is "Triple falls" can be viewed from several vantage points on the upper trails in the canyon.

The trail has issues due to natural as well as human impacts. In the late 1990s, the stream was partially occluded when three large boulders (the size of "pickup trucks") tumbled into the stream. Subsequently, a log jam has formed in the midst of the slot canyon. This has created a hazard for hikers, which led to a fatality in 2011.

trails providing access to the waterfalls remain closed due to damage from the 2017 Eagle Creek Fire.

The Oneonta Gorge was first photographed by Carleton Emmons Watkins, a native of Oneonta, New York, who had traveled west in 1851 during the time of the California Gold Rush. Watkins named the Oneonta Falls after his hometown.

Oneonta Gorge Creek Bridge
Built in 1914, the Oneonta Gorge Creek Bridge, approximately 0.5 mi downstream from the falls, is a "four-span 80 ft reinforced-concrete deck girder trestle" that "is 24 ft wide and has a roadway measuring 22 ft." It is a contributing structure in the Historic Columbia River Highway, which was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1983.

title: Oneonta Gorge


text:
People's Progressive Party (Malaysia)

The People's Progressive Party (myPPP; Parti Progresif Penduduk) is a multiracial political party in Malaysia and was one of the component members of the National Front or Barisan Nasional coalition from 1973 to 2018.

The party has two distinct phases - the first as a respected opposition party from the 1950s to the 1970s when its stronghold was Perak and it led the administration of Ipoh. The second was as a minor party in the Barisan Nasional coalition that only won a single parliamentary seat in more than four decades and was riddled with factional disputes.

The loss of the Barisan Nasional in the 2018 Malaysian general election caused the party to split into two factions – one led by Maglin Dennis D'Cruz who supported myPPP remaining part of the coalition and the other led by party president M. Kayveas who insisted on myPPP leaving the BN coalition. The latter emerged victorious in the immediate power struggle and myPPP subsequently exited the Barisan Nasional coalition. However, the Registrar of Societies de-registered the party in 2019 amid a renewed dispute between D'cruz and Kayveas.

History
PPP was formed in 1953 by the Seenivasagam brothers mainly as an opposition party to the Alliance; the party's first president was Kanagaratnam Pillai with the Seenivasagam brothers as senior office bearers. It was a hugely popular party upon inception, particularly due to the popularity of the brothers who spoke up for justice, equality and the common man.

For a short period in 1954, PPP joined the ruling Alliance with UMNO, MIC, and MCA (which would later become the Barisan Nasional), but withdrew in 1955 over disagreement with the Alliance on allocation of seats, to become an opposition party again. In 1969, as a strong opposition party, PPP was nearly able to form the Perak State Government, but fell short of just 2 seats in combination with the opposition to form the state assembly when 2 of its members crossed over. The success of PPP was mainly due to the Chinese vote, though many of the top leaders then were Indians.

In 1973, PPP became one of the founding members of the National Front. It was brought into the National Front to keep the Indian and Chinese vote, especially after the 1969 racial riots.

However, joining the coalition would prove its undoing as it lost nearly all its seats when it contested under the Barisan Nasional ticket in the 1974 General Elections. This was mainly due to Chinese anti-establishment feeling that was prevailing at that time. Many PPP stalwarts transferred their allegiance to the DAP during that time.

Following the loss of its final parliamentary seat in 1978, the party descended into factionalism and was on the verge of disbanding.

However PPP enjoyed a renaissance of sorts under the leadership of M. Kayveas, who rebranded the party and boosted its membership to more than 500,000 with a network of over 3000 branches throughout the country. All registered members carry a membership card signed by the President; the President's card is signed by the Secretary General. As of 2006, 48% of the PPP's membership is Indian, 32% are Chinese, 13% are Malay, and the rest are of other ethnicities.

In November 2006, party president, M. Kayveas, proposed a merger between the PPP and another Barisan Nasional party, the Parti Gerakan Rakyat Malaysia. Koh Tsu Koon, Gerakan's Deputy President, welcomed the suggestion.

The 2008 Malaysian General Elections saw the party being decimated. However the party retained its representation in the Senate and was later allocated a Deputy Minister post occupied by T. Murugiah.

In the aftermath of the 2018 Malaysian General Elections, the party under President M. Kayveas announced myPPP's exit from the Barisan Nasional coalition after its loss of power in the election. There was a subsequent power struggle between the "remain" and "leave" factions of myPPP led by Maglin Dennis D'Cruz and M. Kayveas respectively. The former emerged victorious in the power struggle and via a letter dated 11 April 2023, the Home Minister decided that Maglin Dennis D'Cruz was the lawful President of myPPP.

Maglin however died on November the same year, and as of June 2024, the party is temporarily helmed by J. Loga Bala Mohan.

Chronology

 * 1953: PPP was formed under the name 'Perak Progressive Party' to participate in the political future of the impending independence of Malaya.
 * 1954: PPP became a component of the Alliance. It won a seat in the Ipoh Town Council.
 * 1955: PPP withdrew from the Alliance before the 1955 Federal Legislative Council Elections due to non-allocation of seats for PPP.
 * 1956: To reflect a national image, the party's name was changed to People's Progressive Party.
 * 1957: Party president, D. R. Seenivasagam won the by-election for the Ipoh Parliamentary seat and became PPP's first Member of Parliament.
 * 1959: PPP won 4 parliamentary and 8 state assembly seats in the 1959 general election.
 * 1960: PPP won 1 more Parliamentary seat making it 5 MPs in parliament. PPP consolidated its position in Ipoh and turned Ipoh Municipality into an exemplary model of local administration.
 * 1964: PPP won 2 parliamentary and 6 state seats in the 1964 general election.
 * 1969: Party president and prime mover, D. R. Seenivasagam, died, and the leadership of the party was taken over by co-founder S. P. Seenivasagam. Despite the change of leadership, PPP went on to win 4 parliamentary seats and 12 state assembly seats in the 1969 General Election. The opportunity to form the Perak State Government slipped away due to a shortage of 2 seats.
 * 1972: PPP charted a new milestone by making a decision to join the Barisan Nasional. The decision was based on the belief that for the country to achieve political, social and economic stability, parochial and narrow party interests must be given up for a national multi racial outlook.
 * 1974: PPP contested under Barisan Nasional symbol and won 1 parliamentary and 2 state seats in the 1974 general election.
 * 1975: Party president S. P. Seenivasagam died and Mr. Khong Kok Yet became president.
 * 1978: S. I. Rajah was elected president.
 * 1982: Paramjit Singh was elected president.
 * 1985: Tee Ah Chuan took over the party presidency after Paramjit Singh stepped down.
 * 1986: Paramjit Singh became president again following the resignation of Tee Ah Chuan.
 * 1988: Mak Hon Kam became president after a private deal with Paramjit Singh. Following a court injunction against Mak Hon Kam, S. I. Rajah became Acting President. The court subsequently decided that the Registrar of Societies should determine a legitimate leader.
 * 1993: M. Kayveas became president following S. I. Rajah's retirement from active politics.
 * 1994: The Registrar of Societies decided and recognised M. Kayveas as the lawful president.
 * 1995
 * 19 March: An Extraordinary Delegates Conference was held and the following were unanimously adopted:
 * The party Logo, which is a six pointed red star, be changed to a six pointed blue star with the letters PPP in the center of the star.
 * The national president is the only spokesman for the party.
 * Branch membership to be reduced to 27 from the current number of 50.
 * To update the Registry of members and Membership Cards be issued and ensure active membership participation.
 * 26 March: M. Kayveas attended the First Barisan Nasional Convention and signed the Barisan Nasional Charter as the National President of PPP.
 * 12 April: Prime Minister and Barisan Nasional chairman launched the new logo of PPP.
 * 25 April: PPP actively participated in the General Election extending their fullest support to all Barisan Nasional candidates.
 * 5 June: The Registrar of Societies was sued for having made a decision in favour of M. Kayveas.
 * 5 October: The court accepted M. Kayveas and his CEC to intervene in the suit.
 * 21 October: The Registrar of Societies confirmed that until further notice of its decision, M. Kayveas and his CEC should remain the only legal office bearers of the party.
 * 1999
 * 18 September: An attempt was made by a group of expelled members to challenge the leadership of PPP via a ruling from the Seremban High Court. It was subsequently nullified on 14 October 1999 by the Court of Appeal which decided in favour of M. Kayveas' leadership of the PPP.
 * 2000
 * 6 December: As promised by the then Prime Minister Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad, M. Kayveas was appointed Senator in the Dewan Negara.
 * 2001
 * 30 January: Appointment of the party President as a Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Housing and Local Government.
 * 27 May: A 25 acre land was donated to PPP by Hua Yang Development Sdn Bhd for the purpose of setting up an Institution of Higher Learning. The signing ceremony was held in the Ipoh City and Country Club.
 * 2005
 * 24 September: Kayveas retained his position unopposed after only one nomination was submitted for the president's post.
 * 2008
 * March: Kayveas lost his federal seat. PPP's future was widely questioned.
 * 2009
 * 4 April: Opposition Leader Anwar Ibrahim announced that People's Progressive Party (PPP) vice-president V. Nagarajan along with 11 of the party's divisions would be defecting to People's Justice Party.
 * 2009
 * 25 June: Kayveas announced his new line for the supreme council for the term 2009–2014. He also appointed three vice-presidents: Loga Bala, M. Gandi, and Nik Safiea; Treasurer Ghana; and Information Chief A. Chandrakumanan from the Federal Territory.
 * 2009
 * Kayveas announced new Youth Chief Jamal Gulhamhan and Putera Chief R. Suthesan from Johor.
 * 2009
 * 12 August: M. Kayveas was the valid People’s Progressive Party president while sacked youth chief T. Murugiah’s appointment as president at a 24 May Emergency General Meeting (EGM) was invalid, the Registrar of Societies (ROS) had decided. Murugiah’s sacking had also been found to have been conducted according to provisions in the party constitution and was therefore deemed valid.
 * 2014 PPP got more Counselor posts in local government and 2 Senator Post with 1 Deputy Minister.
 * 2014
 * 30 November: M. Kayveas announced his new line for the supreme council for the term 2014-2019 who have won uncontested. Five vice-presidents won uncontested Loga Bala Mohan, A. Chandrakumanan, Maglin Dennis D'Cruz, Ong and Eleyappan.
 * 2015
 * 15 November: M. Kayveas announced rebranding of Party from PPP to My PPP (#myPPP) with new tagline "Proud to be a Malaysian (#P2baM).
 * 2018
 * 25 April: M. Kayveas was expelled from myPPP. He lost his party membership and all positions in the party.
 * 26 May: An AGM was organised at Putra World Trade Center with Datuk Seri Maglin Dennis D’Cruz being appointed as President, Datuk Loga Bala Mohan Jeganathan being appointed as Senior Vice President and Datuk Dr Siva Kumar being appointed as Vice President. Maglin decided that the party had always remained in Barisan Nasional while M. Kayveas disputed his ouster as illegal and instigated by UMNO and announced that the party pulled out of BN.
 * 27 May: Another AGM was held by M. Kayveas, who at the general meeting displayed a letter issued on 18 May by the Registrar of Societies acknowledging him as the legitimate myPPP President. He claimed that he had about 6,000 signatures from supporters nationwide who supported his presidency.
 * 2019
 * 14 Jan: The Registrar of Societies (RoS) has deregistered MyPPP, both factions in dispute were informed. Party has 30 days to appeal.
 * 2023
 * 19 April 2023. MyPPP has been re-registered by the Ministry of Home Affairs. The party has successfully won 21 cases against the former president. The responsibility of party building will now be handed over to genuine myPPP members.

Other references

 * Pillai, M.G.G. (3 November 2005). "National Front parties were not formed to fight for Malaysian independence". Malaysia Today.

title: People's Progressive Party (Malaysia)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Causes for fear of Airplanes and Flying

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. Golbez 22:12, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Causes for fear of Airplanes and Flying
del. someone's essay. do not redirect to Fear of flying. mikka (t) 21:28, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Why not redirect? It's not the most obvious of search terms, but not entirely unlikely either. --W(t) 21:32, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * There is an infinite number of "not entirely unlikely" search queries. For starters, notice the capitalization; also try searches for "causes for fear" vs. "causes of fear". mikka (t) 21:51, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect, no content to merge. Christopher Parham (talk) 22:42, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Delete, redirection is not a means for ensuring that every permutation of words in the English language is available as a redirect on the Wikipedia - particularly given the capitalization. Article is also very 'chatty' and has little cited fact in it.=Splash 00:58, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, essay with unlikely title (no redirect required). --TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:11, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I see your point. Delete. --W(t) 10:53, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
Sarawak United Peoples' Party

The Sarawak United Peoples' Party, or SUPP (Parti Rakyat Bersatu Sarawak; Iban: Gerempong Sa'ati Rayat Sarawak) is a multiracial centre-right local political party of Malaysia based in Sarawak. The SUPP president is Dr. Sim Kui Hian. He succeeded the post from his predecessor, Peter Chin Fah Kui in 2014. Established in 1959, SUPP is the first political party in Sarawak. It has its roots in left-leaning ideologies, nationalism and championing for the cause of the working class. Formerly it was one of the Sarawak component members of Barisan Nasional from 1970 until June 2018. Together with other Sarawak-based BN component parties, SUPP always has had tension in its relationship with its Peninsula-based partners. After the 2018 general election defeat of BN had proven that the model was no longer viable, and following a key meeting between all Sarawak-based BN coalition parties on 12 June 2018, SUPP has decided to leave BN to co-form a new Sarawak-based coalition of Gabungan Parti Sarawak.

History
Being the first local political party, Sarawak United Peoples' Party's origins are tied to Sarawak's history of 20th century political awakening. After World War II, the last Rajah of Sarawak, Charles Vyner Brooke ceded Sarawak to Britain in 1946, thus making it an official British Crown Colony – to the dismay of many locals. This eventually gave rise to local anti-cession and anti-imperialist movements which further sparked local political awareness. The triggering event was Sarawak's new Constitution of 1959 which fell short of expectations for many who hoped to see significant progress to self-governance. The need for an organised political front to champion Sarawakian interests finally led to the formation of SUPP on 4 June 1959, with Ong Kee Hui as its founding president. With a "Sarawak for Sarawakians" ideology – SUPP's movement gained widespread support, including winning big in the local elections of November 1959, alarming the then ruling British colonial government. When the proposal for Federation of Malaysia was first mooted in 1961, SUPP came out strongly to oppose the idea. Ong argued for Sarawak's independence before setting up a greater federation.

In December 1962, the British colonial government launched a crackdown on all dissenting groups in Sarawak. Many party members were detained, some even deported from Sarawak for alleged communist activities as, at the time, some members had links with Communist-affiliated organisations. Nonetheless, SUPP still did well at the Sarawak elections of June 1963 but it left one-seat-short of a majority to form government, thus it remained as the opposition party. On 22 July 1963, Sarawak gained independent self-governance from Britain. On 16 September, Sarawak together with the Federation of Malaya, Singapore and North Borneo (Sabah) jointly founded the Federation of Malaysia. In June 1965, the government launched “Operation Hammer” to counter prevailing communist threats. Party leaders vehemently protested when about 10,000 Sarawakians men, women and children were forced to resettle under curfew – surrounded by barb-wire fencing – including more than a hundred SUPP members. Party leaders initiated daily visits to the resettlement centres to monitor the welfare of the detainees, but later, even this was barred by the government.

In May 1969, due to 13 May riots in Peninsular Malaysia, an Emergency Proclamation was declared across the country, suspending an ongoing elections in Sarawak. When the Sarawak elections resumed in 1970, SUPP emerged as the single party with largest number of votes, but no party has control of majority seats to form a government. Considering that this crisis for a functioning government occurred at a time when, on one hand, a state of turmoil post-13 May was still present, while on the other hand, people were rounded-up and detained without trial – SUPP accepted the invitation to form a coalition government to stabilise the situation. In exchange, the government agreed to SUPP demand that party secretary-general Stephen Yong be appointed to the State Operations Committee (the security directorate) so that the party can influence counter-insurgency operations to look after the welfare of SUPP detainees including Chinese settlers, in the resettlement centres. In the ensuing years, SUPP generally had wide support at the polls even during the 2008 Malaysian general election where most of its allies suffered.

However, it is no stranger to major setbacks at the polls: In the 1996 Sarawak election, its then president, the late Wong Soon Kai was defeated and thereafter decided to retire from politics. A similar situation happened in 2011 Sarawak election when the then party president, George Chan Hong Nam was unseated. It also lost at the Sibu by-election of 2010. In the 2013 Malaysian general election, the party won only 1 out of 7 seats contested. Not long after, Wong Soon Koh, who was then the deputy secretary-general, left with his faction and eventually set up a separate splinter-party with a similar-sounding name, called United People's Party (UPP).

A positive turnaround was marked in the 2016 Sarawak election when SUPP, with current party president Sim Kui Hian at the helm, went on to win 7 seats out of 15 contested. After establishing new leadership line-up and reforms including amending the party constitution to limit the tenure of the president himself, the party placed renewed focus on the pursuit of more Sarawakian autonomous power and rights within Malaysia based on the unique contexts of the federation's formation, as originally outlined in the Malaysia Agreement 1963, Inter-Governmental Committee Report, and the Report of the Cobbold Commission.

SUPP Central Working Committee

 * President:
 * Datuk Seri Dr. Sim Kui Hian
 * Deputy President:
 * Datuk Seri Richard Riot ak Jaem
 * Datuk Chieng Buong Toon
 * Vice President:
 * Datuk Lily Yong Lee Lee
 * Datuk Lee Kim Shin
 * Datuk Ding Kuong Hiing
 * Datuk Seri Huang Tiong Sii
 * Secretary-General:
 * Datuk Sebastian Ting Chiew Yew
 * Deputy Secretary-General:
 * Sih Hua Tong
 * Datuk Ting Check Sii
 * Vice Secretary-General:
 * Karambir Singh Honey
 * Danny Banjang
 * Teng Ung Woo
 * Bong Lian Huan
 * Treasurer:
 * Datuk Francis Harden Hollis
 * Deputy Treasurer:
 * Robert Lau Hui Yew
 * Publicity and Information Chief:
 * Adam Yii Siew Sang
 * Assistant Publicity and Information Chief:
 * Lo Khere Chiang
 * Electoral Director:
 * Organising Secretary:
 * Datuk Matthew Chen Thin Kong
 * Deputy Organising Secretary:
 * Johnny Pang Leong Ming
 * SUPP Youth Chief:
 * Michael Tiang Ming Tee
 * Deputy Youth Chief:
 * Vice Youth Chief:
 * SUPP Women Chief:
 * Kho Teck Wan
 * Deputy Women Chief:
 * Vice Women Chief:
 * Members elected by Central Committee:
 * Danny Banjang
 * Niponi ak Undek
 * Datin Jennifer Chee Moinie
 * Wong Ching Yong
 * Dandi ak Timbang
 * Wilfred Yap Yau Sin
 * Members appointed from Non-Constituency:
 * Michael Tiong Hok Choon
 * Dato Sim Kiang Chiok
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Vice Women Chief:
 * Members elected by Central Committee:
 * Danny Banjang
 * Niponi ak Undek
 * Datin Jennifer Chee Moinie
 * Wong Ching Yong
 * Dandi ak Timbang
 * Wilfred Yap Yau Sin
 * Members appointed from Non-Constituency:
 * Michael Tiong Hok Choon
 * Dato Sim Kiang Chiok
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Members appointed from Non-Constituency:
 * Michael Tiong Hok Choon
 * Dato Sim Kiang Chiok
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Members appointed from Non-Constituency:
 * Michael Tiong Hok Choon
 * Dato Sim Kiang Chiok
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Members appointed by Party President:
 * Chua Beng Seng

SUPP Central Committee Members

 * Lau Kah Lieng
 * Fang Jee Khin
 * Chai Hong Chin
 * Lim Ah Ted
 * Tnay Li Ping
 * Wang Yin Chai
 * Chong Piang Men
 * Liew Chong Vui
 * Chai Siaw Fong
 * Chong Bui Ling
 * Tan Ching Teck
 * Tay Yeong Soon
 * William Thien
 * Chong Tet Fatt
 * Lau Sie Hing
 * Ting Huong Hau @ Ting Huong Leong
 * Chieng Buong Ong
 * Loi Siok Hung
 * Kong Keh Sing
 * Siew Chiew Choung
 * Chau Chong Fat
 * Yew Phong Tiong
 * Yek Tiew Chiong
 * Yong King Chew
 * Dandi Ak Timbang
 * Jampong Ak Tekalan
 * Kua Jack Seng
 * Dato’ Ho Beng Aik
 * Ho Shing Tian
 * James Ling Thian Ing
 * Wilfred Yap Yau Sin
 * Lee Tho Fung
 * Lee Tong Kwang
 * Jong Yean Pin
 * Liew Sze Lin
 * Voong Nam Jin
 * Lim Chung Yien
 * Lau Sze Tung
 * Bong Nam Kee
 * Lee Thin Hin
 * Chai Soon Thin
 * Liaw Ho Peng
 * Michael Tiong Hok Choon
 * Waterkiller Ak James Junit
 * YBhg. Datin Jennifer Chee Moinie
 * Jimson Jium Ak Sungong
 * Thian Eyian Chionh
 * Yong Kar Seng
 * Liew Shaw Fah
 * Tong Shih Yee
 * Yeo Tiong Ing
 * Chua Beng Seng
 * Niponi Undek
 * Liew Shan Boo
 * Datin Enn Ong Siok Ean
 * Chan Chiaw Yam
 * Ong Chee Chiang
 * Patrick Gordon Song
 * Goh Tze Hui
 * Sim Bee Kim
 * Tan Kai
 * Shim Poh Szu
 * Sim Yam Leong
 * Chin Fook Kim
 * Hii Chang Hoon
 * Huang Huat Choon
 * Voon Kah Chee
 * Chin Vui Khun
 * Phang Puk Kung
 * Own Chin Kong
 * Wong Zee Yeng
 * Tan Hieng Kiek
 * Empaling Ak Lanyau
 * Egong Ak Undong
 * Ling Dien Yong
 * Law Khin Seng
 * Chai Kuen Ming
 * Kueh Chie Tiong
 * Chong Ah Muk
 * Goh Khiok Seng
 * Tang Siong Chung
 * Yap Siew Jin
 * Bong Ngim Swee
 * Chang Thun Hou
 * N’Tulus Ak Janggeh
 * Maclister Richard Riot
 * Michael Megang
 * Tiong Chong Onn
 * Tay Siaw Chuan
 * Andar Suntai
 * Liew Wei Tchiun
 * Toh Tze Bin @ Toh Tze Hua
 * Sim Kiang Chiok
 * Yong Tet Poh
 * Chong Tak Sze
 * Jimbai Ak Bandir
 * Yiap Fun Lee
 * Chin Shaw Foh

Senators

 * His Majesty's appointee:
 * Robert Lau Hoi Yew

Members of Parliament of the 15th Malaysian Parliament
SUPP only has 2 MP in the House of Representatives.

Malaysian State Assembly Representatives
Sarawak State Legislative Assembly

title: Sarawak United Peoples' Party


text:
User:Musavatist

I am from Baku, Azerbajdzan

title: User:Musavatist


text:
Sabah Progressive Party

The Sabah Progressive Party (Parti Maju Sabah, abbreviated SAPP) is a multiracial political party based in Sabah, Malaysia. It was registered on 21 January 1994 by dissidents led by former Sabah Chief Minister Datuk Yong Teck Lee from United Sabah Party. Formerly a component party in the ruling Barisan Nasional coalition, SAPP officially withdrew from BN in September 2008 to become independent. As of 2010, SAPP has two representatives in the national legislature and two in the Sabah State Assembly. In 2016, the party together with Homeland Solidarity Party formed the United Sabah Alliance. It later joined the United Alliance together with STAR and PBS in 2018. The SAPP became the main component party of the Perikatan Nasional and GRS coalition, the successor of United Alliance that was established in 2020 and registered in 2022.

Formation, joining Barisan Nasional
The party was formed on 21 January 1994, by factions of Parti Bersatu Sabah (PBS) led by its vice-president Yong Teck Lee, who disagrees with directions the PBS leader Joseph Pairin Kitingan is taking the party and state. Yong, who were the Deputy Chief Minister under Pairin, togethers with members of his faction, resigns from PBS on the day of SAPP's formation. The party was registered just in time to enter the 1994 Sabah state election, which SAPP entered under the banner of Barisan Nasional, and won 3 seats out of seven SAPP contested. When BN regains control of the state on March that year after further defections from PBS, SAPP were part of the government in Sabah. Yong were appointed as the state's Chief Minister from 1996 to 1998, under then rotation system between Muslim bumiputera, Non-Muslim bumiputera, and Chinese leaders for two year tenure each.

Withdrawal from Barisan Nasional
The SAPP won two parliamentary seats in the general election held on 8 March 2008. After the 2008 election, there were calls by many Sabahan political parties for more autonomy from the Malaysian federal government.

SAPP President Yong Teck Lee announced on 18 June 2008 that the party would file a "no-confidence motion" in the Dewan Rakyat on 23 June against Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, calling on him to step down. The party, criticising what it described as insensitivity on the part of the government towards issues in Sabah, said that it was taking advantage of a unique "window of opportunity" for the sake of Sabah interests, including autonomy, return of Labuan and 20% of oil revenues. The majority of the Sabah population are generally content with the SAPP no-confidence vote against Prime Minister Abdullah who has been accused a number of wrongdoings including corruption and abuse of power. In retaliation for calling for a vote of no-confidence against Abdullah, the BN supreme council issued a show-cause letter to SAPP. A 30-day period was to give SAPP a chance to reply and defend itself before BN took any action against them.

On 17 September 2008, SAPP quit Barisan Nasional. Nevertheless, the decision came at a price as the party's deputy president, one of its vice-presidents, and its youth chief (who chose to remain within BN) all opposed the move and withdrew from the party. Some 2,000 members of the party similarly disagreed from the move and left the party, showing support for these dissident leaders.

Forming the United Sabah Alliance
In 2016, the party formed a part of the United Sabah Alliance (USA).

Malaysian State Assembly Representatives
Sabah State Legislative Assembly

title: Sabah Progressive Party


text:
Liberal Democratic Party (Malaysia)

The Liberal Democratic Party (Parti Liberal Demokratik) (abbrev: LDP) is a Sabahan Chinese-based political party founded in the town of Tawau, Sabah, Malaysia by Hiew Min Kong in 1989. This party is a major component of Gabungan Rakyat Sabah (GRS) since April 2023.

The party is considered a minor political party in Malaysia, having its base mainly in Sabah. It was allocated one parliamentary seat under the Barisan Nasional (BN) political alliance, the Sandakan seat. The seat, which was won by the party's then president Liew Vui Keong in the 2008 general election, was lost in the 2013 general election to a candidate from the Democratic Action Party (DAP). As a result, the party is currently represented in neither the Dewan Rakyat nor the Sabah State Legislative Assembly. On 11 May 2018, Liberal Democratic Party announced that they had decided to leave the BN coalition with immediate effect. On 28 March 2021, its supreme council endorsed its application to join the ruling Perikatan Nasional (PN) coalition. However, on 2 October 2021, PN Chairman and former Prime Minister Muhyiddin Yassin rejected application of the party. On 5 April 2023, the party has officially been admitted into Gabungan Rakyat Sabah (GRS) after its membership application had been accepted by the coalition.

History
The Liberal Democratic Party was formed in 1989 during the era when Parti Bersatu Sabah (PBS), then a federal opposition party, was the state government of Sabah. The formation of LDP then was seen more as "a storm in a teacup" as the existence of Sabah People's United Front (BERJAYA), United Sabah National Organisation (USNO) and the Sabah Chinese Party (SCP) had posed a larger challenge to the mighty PBS then as LDP was a small party.

LDP contested the 1990 Sabah State Election and fielded 14 candidates but lost all the seats it contested. PBS won 36 seats out of the 48 State Constituencies it contested in the election. Despite LDP's defeat in the 1990 State Election, in 1991, LDP was admitted into the fold of BN as its first Chinese-based political party in Sabah. Chong Kah Kiat became the president then and had since replaced Pro tem President Hiew Ming Kong as the President of LDP.

As the United Malay National Organisation (UMNO) was introduced into Sabah to fight PBS, other BN political parties in Sabah who had contested in the 1990 State Election like BERJAYA and USNO were forced to disband and disappeared from the political scene altogether. Under the Barisan ticket, LDP was allocated three seats, Tenom, Kudat and Sembulan. LDP's candidate won the Kudat seat while lost the other two to the PBS's candidate. The aftermath of the 1994 State Election saw many state elected representatives switching their political parties. This resulted in the collapse of PBS and the emergence of Sabah UMNO which went on to form the next government. The new State Government of Sabah included LDP's sole representative, Kong Hong Ming, into the Sabah Cabinet. In 1995, LDP president Chong Kah Kiat was picked as a senator to the Dewan Negara. However, later, Chong was challenged for the presidency by Kong. Chong eventually emerged as the winner and Kong left the LDP, quitting his ministerial post from the Sabah cabinet.

Chong continued as a Federal Minister in the Prime Minister's Department from 1995 till 1999 when he resigned to return to state politics. LDP was allocated two State Constituencies seats for the 1999 State Election namely Kudat and Karamunting where the candidates are Wong Lien Tat, the Party's vice-president and Chong himself. They eventually won both seats handsomely. Both were made ministers in the state cabinet.

LDP reached its political peak when Chong became the 13th Chief Minister of Sabah under the Rotation System introduced by the then Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir Mohamad in 2001. Chong Kah Kiat became Chief Minister for two years till 2003 before the post went back to UMNO and the post was never again rotated as in the 2004 Sabah state election, BN swept 59 out of the 60 state seats. LDP won all the three state seats it was allocated under the BN ticket. Despite this, LDP lost the Sandakan parliamentary seat to an independent candidate who had the backing of Sabah Progressive Party (SAPP). In 2005, Liew Vui Keong was appointed as the party's Secretary General.

In 2006, Chong Kah Kiat decided to retire as party president. Liew Vui Keong and Chin Su Phin then took over as the Party President and Deputy President posts respectively. Teo Chee Kang was appointed Secretary General. Chong Kah Kiat, however, did not retire from politics as he remained as the State's Deputy Chief Minister cum Minister of Tourism, Culture and Environment. On 13 April 2007, Chong Kah Kiat resigned from the State Cabinet due to his differences with the Chief Minister Musa Aman over the State Government's stoppage order for the construction of a Mazu statue which was undertaken by the Kudat Thean Hou Charitable Foundation in Kudat. Chong resignation from the state cabinet completes his exit in politics.

In the 2008 Sabah state election, all new faces were fielded in the three state seats allocated to LDP. LDP won all three seats comfortably as BN swept 61 seats out of the 62 state seats. Secretary general Teo Chee Kang won the Tanjong Kapor seat which was previously held by Chong Kah Kiat. New LDP President Liew Vui Keong also won the Sandakan Parliamentary seat and was subsequently appointed Deputy Minister of Trade and Industries. After the SAPP announced it would quit BN on 17 September 2008, its quota of Sabah's Deputy Chief Minister was handed over to LDP. Deputy President Chin Su Phin suggested that the party's three assemblymen were too young-and-inexperienced and therefore not ready to take up such a senior position and instead recommended Malaysian Chinese Association (MCA) for the post citing that it is the largest Chinese-based BN component party.

In spite of that, first term assemblyman Peter Pang was appointed to the post by the Chief Minister Musa. Pang was chosen because compared to the other two LDP assemblymen, Teo Chee Kang (Tanjung Kapor) and Pang Yuk Ming (Merotai), Pang is not closely aligned to Chong Kah Kiat. In September 2010, LDP lost its representation in the state cabinet when Peter Pang left the LDP. In March 2011, Peter Pang applied to join Parti Gerakan Rakyat Malaysia (GERAKAN). Peter Pang was later stripped off his position as Deputy Chief Minister, with the position eventually going to senior state assemblyman Yee Moh Chai of the PBS. Few days after the 2018 general election, the party left the defeated BN coalition.

Presidents

 * 1989–1991 ; 2 years: Hiew Min Kong
 * 1991–2006 ; 15 years: Chong Kah Kiat
 * 2006–2014 ; 8 years: Liew Vui Keong
 * 2014–2019 ; 5 years: Teo Chee Kang
 * 2019-present ; 5 years (as of 2024): Chin Su Phin

=== Supreme Council (2021-2024) ===

 * President:
 * Chin Su Phin
 * Deputy President:
 * Yong Wui Chung
 * Vice President:
 * Ng Tet Hau
 * Peter Chin Kee Yong
 * David Ong Choon Chung
 * Chong Thien Ming
 * Wong Min Kong
 * Thien Kui Sang
 * Sim Fui
 * Youth Chief:
 * Jimmy Lai Khin Hiong
 * Women's Chief:
 * Wong Kuen Yin
 * Secretary-General:
 * Chin Shu Ying
 * Deputy Secretary-General:
 * Chin Soon Ho
 * Treasurer-General:
 * John Lee Tsun Vui
 * Deputy Treasurer-General:
 * Chin Kiang Ming
 * Chief Publicity Officer:
 * Simon Chin Hock Siong
 * Organising Secretary:
 * Goh Soo Yee
 * Speaker:
 * Edward Wong Kon Fan
 * Deputy Speaker:
 * Mok Cheh Hung

 * Committee Members:
 * Shim Nyat Yun
 * Yii Ming Seng
 * Eric Lau kah Hon
 * Ng Kwan Loong
 * Shim Tshin Choo
 * Jason Liew Chien Yan
 * Lam Jin Dak
 * Steven Chung Kiam Fui
 * Wong Chung On
 * Chong Nyuk Fong
 * Yong Khim Vun
 * Alvin Saw Eng Seng
 * Jimmy Lai Khin Hiong
 * Max Voo Min Chung
 * Fung Thau Chim
 * Michelle Lee Cheng Wen
 * Edward Wong Kon Fan
 * Mok Cheh Hung @ Mok Kiong
 * Jin Tze Vun
 * Jacky Wong Kwan How
 * Chin Vun Pheaw
 * Lim Chin Siong
 * Nicholas Ban Wai Tzhing

title: Liberal Democratic Party (Malaysia)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/No Answers in Genesis

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. Golbez 22:12, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

No Answers in Genesis
No evidence of notability. --W(t) 21:29, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Agreed, notability is not asserted in the article. Delete. --Scimitar 21:35, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete unless notability can be shown --Doc (?) 21:49, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Answers in Genesis is (alas) notable.  This is not.  Postdlf 22:39, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable. -- BD2412 talk 22:50, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Keep. Cited by the BBC,  by Keith Korcz of  the University of Louisiana as part of his philosophy course supporting material and by the Geological Society of America (founded 1888) as a resource site :  "NAiG publishes articles by Australian scientists (and others) that expose the fallacies of AiG in particular and young Earth creationism (YEC) in general".  Also cited as a resource for the National Conference on the Teaching of Evolution , a conference supported by the National Science Foundation, the University of California Museum of Paleontology, and the Geological Society of America and organised by  the Paleontological Society, the Society for the Study of Evolution, and the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology.  --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:25, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Apparently, it is notable. The article, however, still needs a massive copyedit, cleanup, and those references included in it. Change vote to abstain --Scimitar 23:32, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Fair enough. I cleaned it up to include the citations. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, a very average/minor organisation in the creation/evolution debate, only notable for its personal attacks on Ken Ham.--nixie 23:43, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, I'm seeing alot of relevent google hits, and in addition to Tony's list I've seen several other links to it from several credible websites. And the half million on the counter doesn't hurt. I'm still slightly suspiscious though. Jimbobsween 00:02, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * A cautious keep per Tony Sidaway. DS1953 02:47, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. Seems notable. JamesBurns 06:38, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup per Tony Sidaway. -CunningLinguist 07:24, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * If you have an article promoting Answers in Genesis, it seems to me censorship to exclude the contrary view. Strong keep:: no-one is obliged to read it --Simon Cursitor 07:37, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment (no vote at this time): The Answers in Genesis article should not be promoting the viewpoints of AiG. (WP:NPOV) — The Storm Surfer 21:58, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep without prejudice. —RaD Man (talk) 08:57, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Useful for those wanting to track the development of this debate and tactics used. --Ian Pitchford 10:44, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and Cleanup. This article has potential, but needs cleanup. -- Zantastik talk  07:53, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * keep..Dunc|☺ 08:23, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, but the article should be marked for cleanup when this vfd is over. - Jersyko talk  22:38, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .