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Swinton Lions

Swinton Lions are a professional rugby league club based in Swinton, Greater Manchester, England, which competes in the Championship. The club has won the Championship six times and three Challenge Cups. Before 1996, the club was known simply as Swinton RLFC.

Early years
The club was formed in 1866 when members of Swinton Cricket Club decided to take up Rugby football in the winter to keep fit. Other than an annual challenge against the local Lancashire Rifle Volunteers from 1869, the only games played were amongst the club's own membership.

In 1871, they joined the Rugby Football Union as Swinton and Pendlebury F.C., playing their first game at Burying Lane against Eccles Standard. The team quickly became virtually unbeatable in the Manchester area and beyond. This rise in stature was surprising because Swinton and Pendlebury was a tiny colliery village with a few cotton mills, but it had a large number of local junior teams from which the club drew its talent.

In 1873, they moved from Burying Lane (Station Road from circa 1889) to a ground known as Stoneacre, and used the nearby White Lion public house as changing rooms. They have been known as the Lions ever since.

Having gone three years undefeated in the mid-1870s, the Lions gradually sought a tougher fixture list. In 1878, the club ventured into Yorkshire, and was soon travelling throughout England taking on opponents including Oxford University. Such was the Lions' success that by the mid-1880s Swinton had become recognised as a national force and were considered the strongest team in Lancashire. The first rugby match under floodlights took place in Salford, between Broughton and Swinton on 22 October 1878.

In 1886, they moved to Chorley Road. The new ground could accommodate much larger crowds and the staging of County matches added to Swinton's growing reputation. The Lions produced several England internationals and dozens more who gained representative recognition wearing the red rose of Lancashire.

They were initially reluctant to join the new Northern Union, but did so on 2 June 1896 due to the fact that the majority of other teams in the area had done so, causing financial hardship to the club. The Northern Union was then split into two county leagues, Lancashire and Yorkshire.

In 1900, led by Jim Valentine, they won the Rugby League Challenge Cup defeating Salford at Fallowfield, Manchester.

On Saturday 8 September 1906, Swinton hosted a Pontefract team who arrived with only 12 players. The Lions scored 18 tries in a club record 76–4 victory. This record would stand for ninety years but three months later when the Lions visited Pontefract they lost 5–0.

The period leading up to World War I was not particularly auspicious for the Lions. Financial crisis followed financial crisis and only the sale of the main stand saved the club from closure during 1917. The war took the lives of 13 Swinton players, but back home the Lions played on throughout in a desperate attempt to stay afloat.

Inter-war period
Lions' directors managed to call upon the support of local businessmen. The signings of Hector Halsall, a centre and future captain, and Albert Jenkins, a Welsh half-back, provided the catalyst. Throughout the 1920s the Lions got better and better, they beat the visiting Australasian team of the 1921–22 Kangaroo tour of Great Britain 9–0. At last they won the Lancashire County Cup in 1925 before recapturing the Challenge Cup in 1926.

They then followed this with their first-ever Championship a year later, and in 1928 the team reached its zenith becoming the last team to secure All Four Cups; they were also the only side from Lancashire to achieve this feat (Hunslet and Huddersfield were the two other clubs). In addition to the Championship Trophy, the Challenge Cup, the Lancashire League and the Lancashire Cup; Swinton won a fifth cup, the Salford Royal Hospital Cup, which was competed for by Salford, Broughton Rangers and Swinton. Crowds in excess of 20,000 were commonplace at Chorley Road.

Under captain, Hector Halsall, the Lions were a side with a strong Welsh presence, with players like Billo Rees as well as the Cumbrian goal-kicking second row forward, Martin Hodgson who signed for Swinton in January 1927. Hodgson still holds the long distance penalty goal world record with a kick of 77¾ yards (at the Athletic Grounds, Rochdale Hornets, in April 1940).

The 1927–28 season saw the Lions sweep all before them. They topped both the Championship and the Lancashire League, having already defeated Wigan in the Lancashire Cup. In a tense Challenge Cup Final they squeezed past Warrington 5–3, and three weeks later the Holy Grail was achieved when they comfortably eased past Featherstone Rovers 11–0 to take the Rugby Football League Championship.

A rent dispute in 1928 caused the club to search for pastures new. In 1929, the club then moved to a new stadium back near their original home off Station Road, taking the old stands with them. This new stadium's name was named after its location, Station Road. In March 1929, a 22,000 thousand crowd saw the Lions defeat Wigan in the first match on new turf. This soon became a favoured ground for major fixtures such as Test matches, Challenge Cup semi-finals, Lancashire Cup finals and Championship finals.

Further Championships were won in 1931 and 1935.

Swinton won the Lancashire Cup against Widnes in 1940, but thereafter the war curtailed the promise of further progress. In 1941–42, Swinton abandoned the Lancashire League due to the Second World War and did not return until the 1945–46 season.

Post-war
Throughout the late 1940s, and the 1950s the Lions strove unsuccessfully to repeat former glories and often flattered to deceive, but the appointment of Welshman Cliff Evans as coach signalled a renaissance. Concentrating on a youth policy and training methods beyond his era, Evans began to model an exciting, young Swinton team. This new era saw some notable Welshmen in the Lions' ranks such as Rees Thomas, Ralph Morgan, Frank Osmond, Dai Moses, Ron Morgan and Graham Rees. Also in the 'swinging 1960s' years the Lions fielded real top class performers such as GB internationals Ken Gowers at full-back, Alan Buckley at left-centre plus his wing partner, John Stopford. During this same decade, local talent came to the fore with the likes of Graham Williams (scrum-half), Derek Whitehead (full-back/utility), Barry Simpson (2nd-row) and classy GB loose-forward Dave Robinson. During the second half of the decade other prominent players turned out for the Lions. Of these, perhaps the most worthy were stand-off Billy 'Daz' Davies, scrum-half Peter Kenny and 2nd-rowers Rod Smith (ex-Workington Town) and the highly respected Bill Holliday (ex-Whitehaven, Hull Kingston Rovers, Cumberland and GB). In fact it was the Lions 1960s quartet of Gowers, Buckley, Stopford and Robinson who were selected to play for the GB tourists on the 1966 tour to Australasia. Gowers was even given the honour of being awarded the position of tour vice-captain. However, some critics saw this as an apology for overlooking him when the previous tourists were chosen in 1962, when many believe he was easily the most outstanding player to wear a full-back's jersey in the British game.

A proposal in 1960 to create a Manchester rugby league club at the former White City Stadium on Chester Road, Old Trafford, Stretford, received strong opposition from Salford and Swinton. Their protests were renewed when a match was staged there between a Manchester XIII (Salford and Swinton players) and the New Zealand tourists in September 1961 and the idea was subsequently dropped.

Swinton made it to the final of the Lancashire County Cup in three consecutive seasons 1960–61, 1961–62 and 1962–63 plus 1964–65 but lost to St. Helens on each occasion at Central Park, Wigan. However, by the end of the 1960s they finally lifted the trophy after overcoming a strong Leigh side 11-2 led by Alex Murphy. Their victorious captain that early November day in 1969 at Central Park, Wigan was long serving dependable right-centre Bob Fleet.

Swinton became Champions of the Rugby Football League Championship in the 1962–63 season. Led by coach Cliff Evans and inspirational skipper Albert Blan, the team recovered from a slow start to complete the final backlogged 18 games (delayed due to the severe winter weather) of a 30-match league calendar undefeated to walk away with the Championship. Swinton's 6th Championship was retained in style 12 months later (1963–64).

As Swinton coach in the late 1960s/early 1970s, Albert Blan guided the team to a fourth and final Lancashire County Cup success in the 1969–70 Final against Leigh by 11–2 at Central Park, Wigan.

When two divisions were reintroduced in 1973, Swinton were out of the top flight, and have struggled to regain their former glories ever since. By the end of the 1970s the club had hit rock-bottom, even though Station Road continued to host semi-finals and finals.

Initially under Frank Myler, and then under Jim Crellin, the Lions briefly threatened a revival during the 1980s. Players such as Les Holliday (son of Bill) and Danny Wilson offered great hope for the future, but despite a Second Division Premiership success in 1987, three separate promotions simply brought about three immediate relegations.

Swinton offered Leigh the option of a ground share at Station Road in June 1991 but they turned it down. In 1992, financial mis-management necessitated the sale of Station Road for property development. The club moved to Gigg Lane, Bury, the home of Bury F.C. In the Lions' last season at Station Road they were drawing crowds of 3,000 but this sudden move caused the club to lose many supporters.

Swinton were saved from liquidation by a consortium headed by former chairman Malcolm White in January 1993.

1996–2020: Summer era
In 1996, the first tier of British rugby league clubs played the inaugural Super League season and changed from a winter to a summer season. The rest of the professional game in Britain would follow this move to summer.

In 1996, Swinton officially added Lions to their name. Peter Roe led Swinton to promotion from Division Two in 1996. The former Great Britain captain, Mike Gregory was the head coach of the club between 1998 and 2001. The popular but ultimately disastrous reign of Tony Humphreys followed in the early period of 2002. Humphreys was sacked in late May 2002 and replaced by former player Phil Veivers. Under the guidance of Veivers performances and result improved significantly and the Lions finished in a promotional playoff position. Only a loss to Sheffield Eagles denied the Lions the opportunity of promotion to National League One.

The financial failure of major creditor and de facto owner Hugh Eaves in 2002 put the future of the club in jeopardy, the chairman and benefactor Malcolm White resigned. The Swinton Supporters' Trust began life on 14 February 2002 in the White Lion public house and set about raising funds for the club. Shortly afterwards, Swinton were forced out of Gigg Lane by the financial problems of their landlords, Bury F.C.

In August 2002, the club were brought the club back to within one mile of the Swinton and Pendlebury border when they played their first match at Moor Lane in Kersal as tenants of Salford City F.C., after travelling to Leigh and Chorley to play 'home' matches. Unfortunately the football club would not grant Swinton a ten-year lease which would be required to enable much needed funding to bring the ground up to standard.

In 2004, the Lions moved to Park Lane, Whitefield, home of Sedgley Park R.U.F.C.

Peter Roe quit as coach of Swinton Lions in September 2003, after less than a year in charge. He rejected a two-year contract to continue as the coach and general manager and left the National League Two club.

In 2006, the return to Swinton and Pendlebury was taken one step further when club chairman, John Kidd, announced on 9 August that the club had acquired a site to build a 6,000 capacity stadium with training facilities and community use in Agecroft, Pendlebury.

In May 2007, Swinton Lions went into administration for about 48 hours to restructure the club from top to bottom. A new company, Swinton Lions Rugby Club, was set up to remove problems with shareholdings from the previous administration. The club came under the stewardship of chairman, John Kidd and fellow directors Paul Kidd (chairman's son), Dave Roberts and Ben Jones.

In May 2009, John Kidd announced that he hoped to be in a position to apply for planning permission from the local council by the autumn. Once given approval by Salford Council it was envisaged that construction could be completed quickly.

During the autumn of 2009 director Paul Kidd stood down as head coach and moved to his new role as director of rugby. It was also announced that the new player/coach for season 2010 would be Paul Smith with Ian Watson as his assistant player/coach. During the season, on 25 May 2010, Paul Smith announced his resignation from his head coach role and left to play for Leigh. He was replaced by Paul Kidd and Ian Watson.

On 26 September 2010, former Barrow coach Steve McCormack was confirmed as the head coach for the 2011 season with Ian Watson and Marlon Billy continuing in their roles as assistant coaches. Swinton played their home games for the 2011 season at the Willows, Weaste, Salford. Swinton went on to win promotion to the Co-operative Championship as Champions of Championship 1.

As of 7 June 2011 when the club hosted a fans' meeting at Moorside Social Club, Swinton, Mr Kidd stated that he expected that the building of the stadium should commence no later than New Year's Day, 2012 with completion set for the end of April (2012). However, the predicted return date of spring 2012 proved to be a somewhat optimistic and premature forecast. Ultimately the funding did not materialise and the club later relinquished its lease on the Agecroft site.

With Salford moving to a new stadium in Barton, Eccles, Swinton set up a ground-share with Leigh in the Co-operative Championship for the 2012 season and onwards whilst they await permission to build their own ground at Agecroft.

On 18 March 2013 the club announced the appointment of Gary Chambers as head coach. Gary, a teacher at Harrop Fold School in Walkden. By late 2013 the club was found to be in severe financial difficulties. Chairman John Kidd announced his resignation and hopes of saving the club were left in the hands of director David Jones and the Supporters' Trust. Alan Marshall and Stephen Wild were nominated by the Supporters' Trust to fill two positions on the new board of directors. Ian Watson took over as player-coach.

In January 2014, Salford City Reds owner Marwan Koukash announced his intention to revolutionise Swinton town centre via the development of St Ambrose Barlow RC High School. His plans were to include a 3,000 capacity stadium for the Lions on the site of the old school playing field, alongside new housing, restaurants and a hotel.

In June 2014, Ian Watson left to join Salford and John Duffy replaced him as head coach in July. A difficult season combined with drastic restructuring of the league structure left the Lions in the third tier of rugby league, League 1, in 2015. In October 2014 the club announced its intention to return to Park Lane, home of Sedgley Park RUFC as its home base for season 2015.

Following their promotion from League 1 to the Championship in 2015, Swinton were forced to play their home league games in nearby Salford and Widnes as Park Lane (Sedgley Park RUFC) did not meet the minimum requirements for the Championship, before moving to Heywood Road, Sale. As of March 2016 the club has re-engaged with the project to establish a community stadium in the Agecroft district of Pendlebury.

In July 2017 after a very poor season on the field and serious financial problems off it, coach John Duffy departed and took a new coaching post with Featherstone Rovers after their man in charge, Jon Sharp left his post. He was immediately replaced by former player and assistant coach Stuart Littler.

On 5 September 2017 the club announced that former Leigh Director Andy Mazey owner of Greater Manchester-based S. R. Waite Group would step in as the new club chairman. Since Mazey's arrival the board now includes former Manchester United Brand Manager Tony Sheridan, former Wigan Athletic footballer John Coyne, and Tecmark Managing Director Richard Heyes.

In September 2019 the club announced that they were seeking permission from the Rugby Football League to rebrand the club as Manchester Lions from the 2020 season onwards. The official name of the club would remain Swinton Lions but the branding and presentation would all become Manchester. The plan was met with considerable opposition including local councillors and the Mayor of Salford. As a result of the opposition the re-brand plans were shelved and almost the entire board resigned on 12 September 2019, leaving sole remaining director Steve Wild in charge to re-structure the club. Since then a new board of directors has been assembled, which has subsequently taken ownership of the company.

In the 2021 Championship season, Swinton finished bottom of the table and were relegated after winning only two matches for the entire year. On 2 October 2022, Swinton achieved promotion from League 1 back to the championship after beating Doncaster 16-10 in the playoff final. In the 2023 RFL Championship season, Swinton finished 10th on the table.

2022 transfers
Gains

Losses

Players earning international caps while at Swinton

 * Charlie Armitt won caps for England while at Swinton 1949 Other Nationalities
 * Tom Armitt won caps for England while at Swinton 1935 France, Wales, 1936 Wales (2 matches), France, 1937 France, 1938 Wales (2 matches), France, 1939 Wales, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1933 Australia, 1936 Australia (2 matches), New Zealand (2 matches), 1937 Australia (3 matches)
 * "Ted"/"Teddy" Beswick won caps for England (RU) while at Swinton 2-caps
 * Albert Blan won caps for England while at Swinton 1953
 * Chris Brockbank won caps for England while at Swinton 1927 Wales
 * Alan Buckley won caps for England while at Swinton 1968 Wales (sub), and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1963 Australia, 1964 France, 1965 New Zealand, 1966 France, Australia (2 matches), New Zealand
 * Brian Butler won caps for Wales while at Swinton in the 1975 Rugby League World Cup against France, New Zealand, and France (World Cup 1975 3-caps)
 * Fred Butters won caps for England while at Swinton 1932 Wales, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1929–30 Australia (2 matches)
 * Leo Casey won caps for Ireland while at Featherstone Rovers, and Swinton 1995–1997 5-caps
 * Dai Davies won a cap for Wales while at Swinton? 1-cap
 * Dan Davies won a cap for Wales while at Swinton 1910 1-cap, and won a cap for Other Nationalities while at Swinton? 1-cap
 * David B. Davies won caps for Wales while at Merthyr Tydfil, Swinton, and Oldham 1908–1913 9-caps
 * Billy "Daz" Davies won caps for England while at Swinton 1968 Wales, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1968 France

 * Mike Edwards won a cap for Wales while at Swinton in 1996 against England 1-cap
 * Bryn Evans won caps for England while at Swinton 1930 Other Nationalities, 1932 Wales (2 matches), 1933 Australia, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1926–27 New Zealand, 1928 New Zealand, 1929–30 Australia, 1932 Australia (2 matches), New Zealand (3 matches), 1933 Australia (2 matches)
 * Frank Evans won a cap for Wales (RU) while at Llanelli RFC in 1921 against Scotland, won caps for Wales (RL) while at Swinton 7-caps, won caps for Other Nationalities (RL) while at Swinton in 1924 against England, in 1926 against England, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton in 1924 against Australia (2 matches), and New Zealand (2 matches)
 * Jack Evans won caps for England while at Swinton 1925 Wales (2 matches), 1926 Wales, Other Nationalities, 1928 Wales, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1926–27 New Zealand (3 matches)
 * Dick Evans won caps for Wales while at Swinton in the 1975 Rugby League World Cup against France (2 matches) (World Cup 1975 2-caps)
 * Richie Eyres won caps for Wales while at Leeds, and Swinton 1995–1999 7(8, 9?)-caps + 1-cap (sub)
 * Ken Gowers won caps for England while at Swinton 1962 France, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1962 France, 1963 France, Australia (3 matches), 1964 France (2 matches), 1965 New Zealand (2 matches), 1966 France (2 matches), Australia, New Zealand (2 matches)
 * Hector Halsall won a cap for Great Britain while at Swinton 1-cap
 * Gordon Haynes won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1-(unofficial?)cap
 * Martin Hodgson won caps for England while at Swinton 1928 Wales, 1929 Other Nationalities, 1932 Wales, 1935 France, 1936 Wales (2 matches), France, 1937 France, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1929–30 Australia (2 matches), 1932 Australia (3 matches), New Zealand (3 matches), 1933 Australia (3 matches), 1936 Australia (3 matches), New Zealand, 1937 Australia
 * Charlie Horley won a cap for England (RU) while at Swinton 1-cap
 * Gomer Hughes won caps for Wales while at Swinton 3-caps

 * Bob Jones represented Wales XV (RU) while at Aberavon RFC in the 'Victory International' non-Test match(es) between December 1945 and April 1946, and won caps for Wales (RL) while at Swinton, and St. Helens 1947–1949 3-caps
 * Paul Kennett won caps for Wales while at Swinton 1992 2-caps + 1-cap (sub)
 * Jack Kenny won caps for England while at Swinton 1936 Wales
 * Simon Knox won caps for Scotland while at Swinton 2-caps
 * James Marsh won a cap for England (RU) while at Swinton 1-cap
 * D. Ralph Morgan won caps and was captain for Wales while at Swinton 1949–50 3-caps
 * Ron Morgan won caps for Wales while at Swinton 1970 England, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1963 France, Australia, 1968 France, New Zealand
 * Chris Morley won caps for Wales while at St. Helens in 1996 against France (sub), and England, while at Salford in 1999 against Ireland, and Scotland, while at Sheffield Eagles in 2000 against South Africa (sub), while at Leigh in the 2000 Rugby League World Cup against Lebanon (sub), New Zealand, Papua New Guinea (sub), and Australia, while at Oldham in 2001 against England, while at Halifax in 2003 against Russia, and Australia, while at Swinton in 2006 against Scotland, 1996–2006 13(14?)-caps + 4-caps (sub) 1(2?)-try 4(8?)-points
 * Dai Moses won a cap for Wales while at Swinton in 1959 against France at Stade des Minimes, Toulouse on Sunday 1 March 1959
 * Peter Norburn won caps for England while at Swinton 1953 Other Nationalities
 * Frank Osmond represented Great Britain while at Swinton in non-Test matches on the 1950 tour of Australasia, and won caps for Wales while at Swinton 1948–1951 14-caps

 * Owen Phillips won caps for Wales while at Swinton 1951–1953 6-caps
 * Billo Rees won caps for Wales while at Swinton in 1926–1930 6-caps, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1926 New Zealand, 1927 New Zealand, 1928 Australia (3 matches), New Zealand (3 matches), 1929 Australia (2 matches), 1930 Australia
 * Jason Roach won caps for Scotland while at Swinton 2-caps
 * Samuel "Sam" Roberts won caps for England (RU) while at Swinton 2-caps
 * Dave Robinson won caps for England while at Swinton 1969 Wales, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1965 New Zealand, 1966 France (2 matches), Australia (3 matches), New Zealand (2 matches), 1967 France (2 matches), Australia (2 matches), Wigan 1970 Australia
 * John Stopford won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 12-caps
 * Kris Tassell won caps for Wales while at Salford, Wakefield Trinity and unattached 2000–2004 11(10?)-caps 6-tries 24-points
 * Rees Thomas won caps for Wales while at Swinton 1-(unofficial?)cap
 * Jim Valentine won caps for England (RU) while at Swinton 4-caps
 * Ian Watson won caps for Wales while at Salford, Swinton, Widnes, Rochdale Hornets, Oldham and Leigh 1996–present 19(17?)-caps + 3-caps (sub) 3(4?)-tries 1-goal 14(18?)-points
 * Danny Wilson won caps for Wales while at Swinton 1981–1984 4 (5?)-caps 1-try 1-goal 2-drop-goal 8-points
 * Joe Wright won caps for England while at Swinton 1932 Wales, 1933 Other Nationalities, 1934 France, and won caps for Great Britain while at Swinton 1932 New Zealand

Other notable players

 * Owen Badger
 * Tom Banks 1888 British Isles tourist (RU)
 * Mark Bourneville
 * Walter Bumby 1888 British Isles tourist (RU)
 * Russell Burn from Cardiff RFC 1950
 * Andy Coley
 * Lawrence Critch 1901–1906
 * Philip Cushion
 * Kelvin Earl
 * Morvin Edwards
 * Jack Evans
 * Karl Fitzpatrick
 * "Richie" Hawkyard
 * Rees Thomas
 * Arthur Hickman
 * Les Holliday
 * Graham Holroyd
 * Chico Hopkins
 * Bill Hopkin
 * Dave Hull
 * Gary Hulse
 * Robert Irving
 * Jordan James
 * Mark Lee
 * Talite Liava'a
 * Davide Longo
 * Paul Loughlin
 * Alex Melling (Testimonial match 1994)
 * Martin Moana
 * Tony Morrison (to Castleford 1992)
 * Mick Nanyn
 * Arthur George Paul 1888 British Isles tourist (RU)
 * "Jack" Preston 1900 Challenge Cup Winner
 * Gavin Price-Jones
 * Graham Rees
 * Ken Roberts
 * Robert Seddon
 * Mark Sheals
 * Barry Simpson
 * Steve Snape
 * Paul Southern
 * Bob Valentine
 * Mike Wainwright
 * John Walker
 * Joe Warham
 * David Watkins
 * Mark Welsby (from Wigan 1992)
 * Derek Whitehead
 * Graham Williams
 * William Williams
 * Willie Wolfgramm

Coaches

 * Sam Jones 1945
 * Albert Jenkins 1945–1951
 * Griff Jenkins 1951–1954
 * Cliff Evans 1954–1967
 * Dai Moses 1967–1968
 * Albert Blan 1968–1971
 * David Mortimer 1971–1972
 * Rees Thomas 1972–1974
 * Austin Rhodes 1974–1975
 * Bobby Fleet 1975–1976
 * Johnny Stopford 1976–1977
 * Bobby Fleet 1977
 * Terry Gorman 1977–1978
 * Ken Halliwell 1978–1979
 * Bobby Fleet 1979
 * Stan Gittins 1979–1980
 * Alan Ratcliffe 1981-1988
 * Frank Myler 1980–1981
 * Tom Grainey 1981–1983
 * Jim Crellin 1983–1986
 * Bill Holliday & Mike Peers 1986–1987
 * Peter Smethurst 1987–1988
 * Frank Barrow 1988–1989
 * Jim Crellin 1989–1991
 * Chris O'Sullivan 1991
 * Tony Barrow 1992–1996
 * Peter Roe 1996–1997
 * Les Holliday 1997–1999
 * Mike Gregory 1999–2001
 * Tony Humphries 2001–2002
 * Tony Barrow 2002
 * Phil Veivers 2002
 * Peter Roe 2003
 * Paul Kidd 2004–2009
 * Paul Smith 2010
 * Paul Kidd 2010
 * Steve McCormack 2011–2012
 * Gary Chambers 2013
 * Ian Watson 2014
 * John Duffy 2014-2017
 * Stuart Littler 2017-21
 * Allan Coleman (interim) 2021–present

Honours

 * Rugby Football League Championship: 6
 * 1926–27, 1927–28, 1930–31, 1934–35 (also Match of Champions), 1962–63, 1963–64
 * Challenge Cup: 3
 * 1899–1900, 1925–26, 1927–28
 * Lancashire County Cup: 4
 * 1925–26, 1927–28, 1939–40, 1969–70
 * Lancashire League: 5
 * 1924–25, 1927–28, 1928–29, 1930–31, 1960–61
 * Second Division Championship: 1
 * 1984–85
 * Second Division Premiership: 1
 * 1986–87
 * RFL League 1: 1
 * 2011

Player records

 * Most tries in a match: 6 by Mark Riley vs Prescot Panthers, 11 August 1996
 * Most goals in a match: 15 by Dan Abram vs West Wales, 13 August 2022
 * Most points in a match: 38 by Dan Abram vs West Wales, 13 August 2022
 * Most tries in a season: 48 by Jim Valentine, 1888–89, (2nd most tries in a season, John Stopford, 42, season 1963–64)
 * Most goals in a season: 128 by Albert Blan, 1960–61
 * Most points in a season: 338 by Ian Mort, 2011
 * Most career tries: 301 by Jim Valentine, 1884–1901
 * Most career goals: 970 by Ken Gowers
 * Most career points: 2,105 by Ken Gowers
 * Most career appearances: 602 (including 8 as substitute) by Ken Gowers, 1954–1973.
 * World record distance for a penalty goal, 77¾ yards by Martin Hodgson, Rochdale Hornets v Swinton, at the Athletic Grounds, Rochdale, 13 April 1940

Team records

 * Biggest victory: 96–0 vs LLaneli, 30 January 2021
 * Heaviest defeat: 0–112 vs Warrington Wolves, 20 May 2011
 * Highest attendance:
 * Club: 26,891 vs Wigan, RL Challenge Cup 1st round replay, Wednesday, 12 February 1964 (Swinton defeated Wigan 13–8 at Station Road)
 * Station Road: 44,621 for Challenge Cup semi-final Warrington vs Wigan, 7 April 1951
 * vs International touring team: 13,341 vs Australia, 4 November 1933 (1933–34 Kangaroo Tour. Swinton defeated Australia 10–4 at Station Road)

2012 Player Awards

 * Player of the Season: Darren Hawkyard
 * Leading Try Scorer: Martin Ainscough (16 Tries)

title: Swinton Lions


text:
Talk:Great Exhibition

question in 2005
Should the link under exhibition go to the world exhibition page rather than to the disambiguation page? --BozMo|talk 12:30, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Not neccesarilly, as the World's Fair is mentioned later in the paragraph.

I heard that this is considered the 'first' International Expo, yet there were obviously exhibitions before this?

 * it happened in queen victoria's reign stupid

The Great Exhibition was not referred to as Crystal Palace as the article suggests. The building the exhibition was housed in was know as the Crystal Palace not the exhibition itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kilfinan (talk • contribs) 11:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

 * However, it's often been called the "Crystal Palace exhibition"... AnonMoos (talk) 03:58, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

This article should discuss the beauty of the exhibit as well. For example, Charlotte Bronte described it as an event "with splendid carriages of all kinds, with harness of every description, to the glass-covered and velvet-spread stands loaded with the most gorgeous work of the goldsmith and silversmith, and the carefully guarded caskets full of real diamonds and pearls worth hundreds of thousands of pounds." That is a beautiful description. - http://www.mytimemachine.co.uk/greatexhibition.htm There should also be information about the area surrounding the exhibition. For example, "The Crystal Palace itself was almost outshone by the park in which it stood, which contained a magnificent series of fountains, comprising almost 12,000 individual jets. The largest of these threw water to a height of 250ft." - http://www.victorianstation.com/palace.html -Beccamichelle

Should mention the Greek Slave statue, which attracted a lot of attention... AnonMoos (talk) 17:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I reckon soz... etc. etc. you know whifflers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.206.208 (talk) 21:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

After consulting Kishlansky’s, Civilization in the West, I found some small but important facts that I believe should be included in the article. Kishlansky notes that when exhibits such as the Great Exhibit of 1851 introduced new art and cultural artifacts, they fostered a “growing appreciation and understanding of the cultures of different continents” (p. 738). Kishlanksy also mentions the important part that the railroad played in making the event accessible to the six million attendees. The text also offers an addition to the notable exhibits section of the Wikipedia article which in and of itself is an ambiguous title, as ‘notable’ will vary from source to source. Kishlanksy notes that household items such as coal burning ovens, artificial flowers, inkstands, and cooking utensils were exhibited. Yet another interesting note left out of the article is that while nearly half of the floor space was given to Great Britain’s exhibits, the French won the most design and style medals (p. 684). Some additional information could be included, perhaps under the notable exhibits section of the article. Gisele Weiss notes that Charles Goodyear exhibited items made of his vulcanized rubber including musical instruments, furniture, and hydrogen filled balloons. Marco Beretta explains a small but relevant fact in his book that the Crystal Palace was covered with over a million square feet of glass. After consulting Hermione Hobhouse’s, The Great Exhibition Art, Science and Productive Industry: A History of the Royal Commission for the Exhibition of 1851, I found an interesting note on what Henry Cole, Francis Fuller, and Mathew Wyatt had to overcome in persuading the world’s best manufacturers to display their best work in the face of competitors copying their work. These names should be mentioned for their part in putting on the exhibition. Further reading into this topic led me to Lara Kriegel’s, Grand Designs Labor, Empire, and the Museum in Victorian Culture. In her book Kriegel explains that these concerns were so loudly voiced that in 1850, Parliament was actually more or less forced by the copyright issue as it pertained to the upcoming exhibition to pass a revised Designs Act in August of 1850. Kriegel goes on to explain that the law “sought to encourage exhibitors, both English and foreign, by providing a year’s provisional registration” (p. 84). Beretta, Marco. "Glassware." History of World Trade Since 1450. Ed. John J. McCusker. Vol. 1. Detroit: Macmillan Reference USA, 2006. 318-320. Gale Virtual Reference Library. Web. 14 Apr. 2010.

Hobhouse, Hermione. The Crystal Palace and the Great Exhibition: Art, Science and Productive Industry : a History of the Royal Commission for the Exhibition of 1851. London: Athlone Press, 2002.

Kishlansky, Mark, Patrick Geary and Patricia O'Brien. Civilization in the West. 7th Edition. Vol. C. New York: Pearson Education, Inc., 2008.

Kriegel, Lara. Grand Designs: Labor, Empire, and the Museum in Victorian Culture. Radical perspectives. Durham [N.C.]: Duke University Press, 2007.

Weiss, Giselle. "Charles Goodyear Discovers the Process for Creating Vulcanized Rubber." Science and Its Times. Ed. Neil Schlager and Josh Lauer. Vol. 5: 1800 to 1899. Detroit: Gale, 2000. 527-530. Gale Virtual Reference Library. Web. 14 Apr. 2010. Rhparkerhum313 (talk) 06:48, 15 April 2010 (UTC)rhparkerhum313

Is the "Great Shalimar" actually another name for the Crystal Palace? Through my research, I found no suggestions of this being true. Even the source cited in the article fails to produce such evidence. Also, just as rhparkerhum313 suggests, there surely needs to be an inclusion of the significance of the railroads. According to the Kenneth Spencer Research Library: "track mileage had doubled in five years before the Exhibition opened; without those railways it would have been impossible to assemble the exhibits—or to bring the hordes of visitors to London." -http://spencer.lib.ku.edu/exhibits/greatexhibition/contents.htm Additionally, this claim from the article surely needs support: "It can be argued that the Great Exhibition was mounted in response to the highly successful French Industrial Exposition of 1844." A great source for such support can be found here: http://www.answers.com/topic/the-great-exhibition under the section from the Modern Design Dictionary. Scottytakeda (talk) 23:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Nice 37.231.156.33 (talk) 17:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Exclaimatory statement
"Queen Victoria and her family visited 3 times!"

Maybe such an exclamatory statement of the fact is not necessary? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.235.58.2 (talk) 16:29, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Source?
"...whilst radicals such as Karl Marx saw the exhibition as an emblem of the capitalist fetishism of commodities."

Since Das Kapital was first published in 1867 and it was not up until then that Marx introduced his concept of commodity fetishism, I'm wondering whether this statement is at all true.

If it is though, I think it would be a very interesting fact to document properly and without bias.

Karl Marx, one of the most influential philosophers of the 19th century, shouldn't have words put in his mouth so lightly while being dispatched as a simple "radical". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.195.7.190 (talk) 02:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Number of Exhibits
Since 3 February 2009 this article has reported that there were over 13,000 exhibits. This was cited to a website called victorianstaton.com which contained that information at least as early as February 2000, and through 2013, though the website may now be defunct, see. An IP editor just tried to change the number to 100,000, claiming it came from his history textbook, which was reverted as unsourced. See. I see a 1999 book reporting 100,000 and other sources saying 13,000 (1973 book:). So which is it? I suspect there is some definitional difference as well as some sloppiness somewhere which has led to divergent reports.--Milowent • hasspoken 19:48, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 13 March 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover)  SITH   (talk)   12:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

The Great Exhibition → Great Exhibition – See Article titles: 'Do not place definite or indefinite articles at the beginning of titles' and Naming conventions (definite or indefinite article at beginning of name). Great Exhibition already redirects here and has always done so. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:50, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Per WP:THE, absolutely no need for the definite article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Support  Jim.henderson (talk) 15:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

My fiance found this in NJ many years ago while digging for rocks, not sure how to share a picture but it looks like a stamp. Exposition universelle 1855 hopson hatter
please let me know if you have any info on it. We are curious Nahnee56 (talk) 17:44, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

 * Hi @Nahnee56 talk pages are discuss improvements to articles so no one here will be able to help you. However, you can upload images at Commons, a sister project then ask your question at the WP:Reference desk with a link to the image to see if anyone there can help. S0091 (talk) 17:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * A different international Expo was held in Paris in 1855. Like this 1861 exhibition, it was very well attended by an international audience. The United States was then, relative to European countries technologically and economically backward; the 1851 and 1855 Expos attracted a lot of American visitors [1].
 * Quite honestly, your 'find' is of mild curiosity value only. There must be thousands of such event souvenirs in the USA still.
 * [1]"Passionate pilgrims : the American traveler in Great Britain, 1800-1914"
 * LOCKWOOD, Allison (1981).
 * New York : Cornwall Books ; Rutherford [N.J.] : Fairleigh Dickinson University Press.2A01:4B00:AE0E:6200:DC7D:D977:5E79:92BB (talk) 11:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Great Exhibition


text:
Talk:Budjak

Old talk
The data in the page comes from the 2001 All-Ukrainian Census.--Danutz

but how did u find out the national composition for each city and rayion? i couldnt find it on that census page.

Look more carefully. Just scroll down, and you'll find the nationala composition for each city and rayon. --Danutz 17:47, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You are right. My bad. But if you calculate the percentile of the Romanian population in Reni, you see that 19.900/39.900=49.9% = 50% not 49% like the census claims.

sorry again my bad its 19.900/40700 not 39900. I was looking at another raion.

Politically correct?
In what sense is Bessarabia "the politically correct term… for Bugeac" (as the article says)? -- Jmabel | Talk 03:45, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Spelling
Shouldn't "rayon" here (a geographic unit) be "raion"? At least I believe that is the Romanian; is it spelled "rayon" in some other language? -- Jmabel | Talk 03:50, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

 * In Russian/Ukrainian it's "район", which has more than one transliteration. It could be raion, rayon, rajon, etc. However, it appears that Wikipedia uses the "Raion" spelling. bogdan | Talk 05:34, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

racon kesmek is an expression they used quite often in the turkish mob tv-series kurtlar vadisi. I never got that. But seeing this. it must mean marking your territory, or showing the extent of or something similar.. it now makes so much sense :-) --Kahraman 20:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Rename this page
This page needs renaming to "Budjak", the English form of Bugeac. This English form is frequently used in historical and scholarly literature whereas the Romanian form rarely appears. Furthermore, since this territory is now Ukrainian, it is questionable whether the Romanian form is the most appropriate if a foreign language version is used.

LuiKhuntek 22:48, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think "Budjak" is in particularly common use. FWIW, there is also "Budzhak". This is one of those cases where several spellings seem to me to be equally common. All should be mentioned, but I don't see a strong case for moving the article to one of them more than another. You say "used in historical and scholarly literature". Can you give some examples? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:23, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not wedded to either "Budjak" or "Budzhak" but "Bugeac" is the "least good."

Budjak is a rarely-mentioned place in English, so it is hard to obtain a very large sample but below is a list of citations taken from Lexis Nexis, JSTOR, and a personal library visit among others. After culling irrelevant citations (Budjak, Budzhak, and Bujak are all surnames and there is an archeologial site called Keui Budjak) the following remain. As you can see, "Budjak" predominates but some of "Budzhak"'s cites carry more "weight" (e.g., historical atlas, gazetteer). Arguments could be made for either of the above but "Bugeac" only appears once (and once as "Bugeacul").

Budjak:

"Stalin legacy threatens all-out war in Moldova." Marc Champion. The Independent (London). 30 Mar 1992, p. 14.

"The Formal Closure of the Ottoman Frontier in Europe: 1699-1703." Rifaat A. Abou-el-Haj. Journal of the American Oriental Society. Vol. 89, No. 3 (Jul 1969), pp. 467-475. (Also used Bujak in the same article)

"The Gypsies." Alexander Pushkin. trans. Walter W. Arndt. Slavic Review. Vol. 24, No. 2 (Jun 1965), pp. 273-290.

"Polish Theories of Art between 1830 and 1850." Stefan Morawski. The Journal of Aesthetics and Art Criticism. Vol. 16, No. 2 (Dec 1957), pp. 217-236.

Captive Romania. A Cretzianu, ed. 1956.

United Romania. C.U. Clark 1932. (Used Budjac)

"The Geographical Distribution of the Balkan Peoples." Jovan Cvijic. Geographical Review. Vol. 5, No. 5 (May 1918), pp. 345-361.

"Bessarabia." Encyclopædia Britannica. 1911.

"The Cossacks in the Early Seventeenth Century." H. Havelock. The English Historical Review. Vol. 13, No. 50 (Apr 1898), pp. 242-260.

Budzhak:

Historical Atlas of Central Europe. 2nd ed. Paul Robert Magocsi. 2002.

Columbia Gazetteer. 1998.

"Recent Achievements in Soviet Ethnomusicology, with Remarks on Russian Terminology." Barbara Krader. Yearbook for Traditional Music. Vol. 22 (1990), pp. 1-16.

Review of Iuzhnaia Ukraina v 1800-1825 GG. by E. I. Druzhinina. Allen McConnell. Slavic Review. Vol. 31, No. 4 (Dec 1972), pp. 889-890.

Bugeac:

"A Rumanian Priest in Colonial America." Demetrius Dvoichenko-Markov. American Slavic and East European Review. Vol. 14, No. 3 (Oct 1955), pp. 383-389.

Romania Testerday and To-day. W. Gordon. 1918. (Used Bugeacul -- form with definite article)

Finally, Morse's New Universal Gazetteer of 1821 has an entry for "Bessarabia or Budziac Tartary."

LuiKhuntek 03:16, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I did some search on google books

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bogdangiusca (talk • contribs) 17 Nov 2005.
 * 41 pages on bugeac (5 pages on bugeacul)
 * 43 pages on budjak (1 pages on budjac)
 * 25 pages on budzhak
 * about 3 pages on bucak (Turkish spelling -- there are many hits with other meaning)

This seems to leave us pretty much where we were. None of these are clearly predominant. It's pretty artbitrary where we put the article. All should be mentioned, all should be at least redirects. Given that, I have no particular preference about where the article sits. -- Jmabel | Talk 17:53, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

The Case for "Budjak"
Checking the same google books link and typing in the three main spellings, I got results of:
 * 29 pages on bugeac
 * 41 pages on budjak
 * 25 pages on budzhak

An important qualifier of these results is that the "Bugeac" form returned Romanian-language books which should not have bearing on the English Wikipedia form. Of course all forms should be mentioned and redirected to the same page just as "München" redirects to "Munich" or "Bucureşti" to "Bucharest" but the above numbers do little to recommend the Romanian "Bugeac" over the Slavic/exonymic "Budzhak" or exonymic "Budjak" forms for the entry name.

The case for the "Budjak" form is as follows. The region is a multiethnic one with a recent history of political control by several countries and the significant presence of other minorities as well (e.g. Bulgarians, Gagauzes). Use of an exonym that is different from all of the local forms helps maintain a NPOV (see Talk:Liancourt Rocks). This form is the also the most intuitive to pronounce for an English speaker. Neighboring regions such as Dobruja, Wallachia, and Bessarabia use exonyms and the German and Dutch entries for this region use their own exonyms (Budschak and Boedjak, respectively). (The French also use "Budjak" but there is no Wikipedia entry for it.)

The case for "Budzhak" is that a majority of the regions inhabitants use this Cyrillic version of this form (Ukrainians, Bulgarians, and Russians) and that it is the form of the current official language (Ukrainian). It is also reasonably intuitive to pronounce.

The "Bugeac" form is not that of a majority of inhabitants or of the official language and is not as intuitive to pronounce for someone unfamiliar with Romanian orthography (and might come out as "Boogie-ack"). It also differs from the other two forms more than the others do from each other.

In addition to the above cases, "Budjak" seems to have a clear plurality of citations followed by "Budzhak" and "Bugeac." Taken together, the case for the exonymic form "Budjak" seems stronger than that for either the Slavic/exonymic or Romanian forms.

LuiKhuntek 08:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Budjak makes the most sense to me as well. Olessi 19:40, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I would venture to say that nl: Boedjak and de: Budschak are not at all "their own exonyms", but rather transcriptions (not transliterations, which seem to be Budžak) of the Ukrainian name following Dutch and German transcription rules for Ukrainian. – Wikipeditor 14:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Requested move
See talk above.

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~

 * Support. Olessi 18:22, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. (Comments above). LuiKhuntek 21:06, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Wikipeditor 15:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

Ethnic composition
if someone is interested, here is a ethnic map of Budjac in the 1980s

--Anonimu 17:36, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Anonimu după cum ţi-am mai scris şi pe pagina ta, the map is good for the purpose of having some kind of an idea of what we are working with here and I think you go down in history to be the first person to upload a detailed map of the ethnic composition of the region.

However, according to the Ukrainian census of 2001 and the Soviet census of 1989 the map is not correct all over the place. For example it shows a Moldovan/Romanian pocket in the south of Cetatea Alba. But there are almost no Romanians there. It also shows another Moldovan pocket in Cetatea Alba/Bilhorod Dnistrovsky raion, suggesting a Romanian village there but according to the census there are none. There is supposed to be a village right to the left of Sarata that is exclusively Romanian but on the map it is shown as Ukrainian. In between Ismail and Kilia, right on the southern shore of that lake that looks like an electric quitar( or the first lake out of the two lakes in between ismail and kilia), well over there there is a village Chishlitza, which is supposed to be exclusively Romanian. Also in Reni raion, all the rural areas in the south are supposed to appear as Romanian(not Ukrainian) except the area around the city itself which the map correctly points out that it is of mixed ethnic composition. This map is what I have come up with according to the latest census:

Constantzeanu 16:29, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Ottoman Bessarabia and other names
Given that Ottoman Bessarabia redirects here, I would think that we need something in the article to the effect of "This area is sometimes referred to in historical contexts as as Ottoman Bessarabia, and the use of the name Bessarabia to refer to this territory predates the more modern use of that name." Am I correct in this understanding of that?

Also, the following sentence is confusing: "Although the area remains separated from the Republic of Moldova that occupies the remainder of Bessarabia, the term is rarely used, replaced normally with Southern Bessarabia." In its current context, it is very hard to tell what this means by "the term". Does it mean Budjak itself? It seems to me that (in its various forms) that name is reasonably common; does someone have evidence that Southern Bessarabia is more common? And if it is more common, then why is the article at Budjak rather than Southern Bessarabia? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[Copied from User talk:Jmabel ] Re: "'[Budjak] is rarely used, replaced normally with Southern Bessarabia.' ... does someone have evidence that Southern Bessarabia is more common? And if it is more common, then why is the article at Budjak rather than Southern Bessarabia?" -- Jmabel 06:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * When researching the various spellings of Budjak for Talk:Budjak, I found that in English-language sources, especially those dealing with wider subject areas (e.g., Romania, Ukraine), the term Southern Bessarabia was used when the area was mentioned in passing, particularly when referring to WWII territorial changes. However, the nature of these mentions was descriptive and does not reflect on studies more focused on the subject.  (A crude comaprison would be the encyclodedic "flatulence" vs. the more common "fart.")  The article should retain the title of Budjak because that name properly situates the topic in both time and space (cf. Gaul/France, Mesopotamia/Iraq). AjaxSmack 02:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[End copied material]

Cyrillic
Why were the Cyrillic spellings removed? - Jmabel | Talk 18:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[Copied from User talk:Jmabel ]
 * The lists like that are prone to mission creep and the Budjak cities already have 3 forms, adding two Cyrillic forms is straying toward them being more like entries in "Names of European cities in different languages." My thinking was that the list links to articles on the cities and these articles contain the Cyrillic forms. AjaxSmack 02:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[End copied material]

Very substantive edit without comment
Since "Kievan Rus' and Galicia-Volhynia" amount to something very different from "Golden Horde Tatars", this is a very substantive anonymous change without comment or citation. Since there was no citation for the previous version, either, and I don't know this history, I am not reverting. Someone should either cite for the present version or revert with citation. - Jmabel | Talk 21:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

in the 9th century Budjak was under magyar domination (it was the westernmost part of etelkoz). afterwards it was under kievan rule at least in the second part of the 10th century (svyatoslav moved his capital on the danube, and budjak is the linking territory between the centre of kievan rus' and the danube region), and probably in the first part of the 11th century too. Then it was a kind of no mans land, with pecheneg and later cumans roaming this land. From the 13th century to ca. 1369 it was under tatar rule. Anonimu 23:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Census numbers
Are all of the census numbers 2001? Because the paragraph that begins "According to the the Ukrainian census, Budjak has a population of 617,200 people," goes through two more sentences before it says "The official data of the According to the the shows…" If the data in the first two sentences comes from that same census, then the paragraph should begin, "According to the 2001 Ukrainian Census…" If not, it should be clear what census it is referring to.

Also, why do we have approximate numbers for several ethnicities followed by a precise number for Romanians/Moldavians?

Also, is there any online source for this census data? And if not, can someone at least indicate a print source? Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 03:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Dnister and Danube Deltas
Budzhak cantains Dnister and Danube Deltas. This article has nothing about them, not even the location on the map of extensive natural parks, etc, but they play a crucial role for people of Budzak.

Spelling of geographic names
Spelling of different geographic names varied substancially through time, even in sourses such as British Encyclopedia. For example the term Moldova was never used in English before 1991, and has acquired preference in 1993 when BBC announced it would use it to distinguish from Moldavia, historical region of Romania. Again, this is just one of thousand of examples. Recent trends that are relevant to this article:

Romania in lieu of Rumania

Bassarabia in lieu of Bessarabia

Dnister in lieu of Dniestr

Bender in lieu of Bendery, which is an obsolete name, since officially it is now Tighina

This does not mean that the old terms are incorrect. It simply means that within 10-20 years they would no longer be in use. (Rumania in no longer used, except in old books, but it is not a formally incorrect form. It is incorrect in Romanian, not in English. It is old in English.)

The reasons usually given for a particular choice are, but not limmited to, 1) closeness to the name in the local official language (respecting the existing borders, even when the origin of the name is completely different), and 2) read in English it is minimally distorted. Therefore in the example above one prefers Bassarabia instead of Bessarabia (Russian, not Romanian) and instead of Basarabia (one s would become z, and the term is sufficiently often used to produce confusion). For Dnister 1) does not apply, since its an international river (passes through more than one country), so 2) is preferred, since Dniestr is Russian, and conflicts both with 1) and 2). Dniester conflicts with 1) (is neither Ukrainian, nor Romanian, nor Russian), and 2) (that's not the way it's pronounced in English). Tighina / Bender much less often used in English than the other 3 terms, so an English-speaker would not "know the way the name sounds in English". Therefore Tighina could not generate Taigaina when pronounced.

Census data and other stuff
Regarding this edit:

 * I will reply below within your comments point by point to make sure the context is clear. --Irpen
 * I have gathered my answers and your subsequent ones according to your orriginal questions. -Dc76
 * Since the purpose of this discussion is to find a good edit for the page, not to discuss the issue itself, I think we can agree on a reasonable edit. Your last responses are partially constructive, so I don't want to waste this oportunity. Just scoll down at the very end (5)

1) The English name of the river is Dniester River and not Dnister --Irpen
 * I heard on BBC that Dnister is correct in English, as it reflects better the English prononciation, since Dniester comes from Russian. Am I wrong? Ok, be it your way, as long as I don't have solid reference for this, but could you provide some reference to the correct spelling? -Dc76
 * See Dniester article in Wikipedia and Britannica. --Irpen
 * This is exactly what they were refering to on BBC, that the old usage, Dniester would be replaced with Dnister. Ok, be it your way, let's wait until the new English form becomes widely used. -Dc76
 * When the prevailing English usage changes, we will change it. --Irpen 02:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

2) "Note, however, that two large nature reserve areas, inhabitted only be rare bird, are attributed to Ukrainians and Russians" is an unacceptable sarcasm and author's own editorializing
 * I did not mean it as a sarcasm, and it does not seem so at all. It is simply pointing out to the flaws in the map. Are you the author of the map? I agree to leave this sentance out, if the map is changed. Can this be done in a couple weeks? -Dc76
 * Who drew the map? --Irpen
 * I ask the same question. Let's find him and ask him/her to modify it. -Dc76
 * Agreed. --Irpen

3a) "Ukrainian citizens of the area self-identified as Moldovans and not "Romanians (Moldovans)" --Irpen

 * partially true:
 * all people, not only citizens, but also turists and people without citizenship, participate in the census-Dc76
 * People without citizenship, yes. Tourists, no. Only permanent residents. --Irpen
 * You mean the foregners who took the pains to register. Ok. -Dc76
 * I mean anyone regardless of citizenship who permanently resides there. Census authorities did not ask for any registration papers. Tourists who who would lie that they are residents whould get themselves counted. I don't think this took place at any significant scale. --Irpen

3b) not all identified themselves as Moldovans, since 750 identified themselves as Romanians-Dc76
 * I have not seen anywhere in Census data published for Odessa Oblast anything about people self-identifying there as Romanians. Here is census data. --Irpen
 * Here are some ad-hoc sources: "In sudul Basarabiei satul pastreaza limba romana"

 They both simply refer to the official data. They show that is Odessa oblast live:
 * 123,751 Moldavians(Moldovans)
 * 724 Romanians
 * 124,475 M+R
 * If you want more, I suggest we email the Ukrainian census or statistics office, and ask whether these figures are true. BTW, they correspond exactly to the idea of averaging to hundreds on their web site.-Dc76
 * I gather from your source: "In anul 2001, s-au declarat romani, 724 de persoane si aproape 124.000 moldoveni, ceea ce reprezinta 5 la suta din populatia regiunii Odessa, cu 14,5 la suta mai putin decit cei care se declarasera romani in 1989. " Please translate this exactly for me. --Irpen

3c)
 * "Census data is available online. "
 * absolutely true
 * "No serious allegation of census irregularities were reported."
 * since I have not heard otherwise, I assume it's true.

3d)
 * "Romanians (Moldavians)" category contradicts to the census data.-Irpen
 * is false. The category contains the number of people of delared M + nr declared R, in full accordance with census data. What is wrong with that?-Dc76
 * Wrong is your choosing to process the census data in accordance to your preferred theory of ethnicity. There are articles to discuss your point that Moldovans are Romanians. Those articles are Moldovans, Moldovanism. We have no place to have this issue spread all over Wikipedia. Census data should be cited exactly as it is. --Irpen
 * Exactly, you are spreading the issue. I suggest simply to mention both of them, not to forget completely about one of them. It is the minimum to ask.-Dc76
 * There is no prefered theory about ethnicity. All academia around the world agree that Romanians and Moldavians are the same ethnic group. This is not a subject for discussion, it is a known fact, like the fact that Russians and Ukrainians are Slavs. Its relevance to the article at hand is to mension both the number of declared M and R simultaneously. If you are not ethn0logist, a sociolog, etc, or a non-specialist but a member of the community in question, you should refrain from talking about things you don't know. I don't mean to critisize, consider it a cold request. Everyone should mind his/her own business.-Dc76
 * Two things, what matters is people's self-perception. If people thought of themselves as Romanians that would have said so in the census. They self-identified as Moldovans. Second, census data has to be presented as it is presented by census. Not processed through adding categories as we like. This is not the issue for the ethnologists to decide whether the Ukrainian Moldovans are Romanians. They were asked who they are. They gave their answers freely with no coersion. It is disservice to them to obscure their self-identification by lumping them together. --Irpen

4a) Table again creates an etnicity named "Moldovans (Romanians)" while in Ukrainian census on which the table is bases such etnicity is called Moldovans. No significant part of Odessa oblast residents self-identified as "Romanians" (some did in Chenivtsi Oblast). I restorted the table in accordance with census.. I brought the table in strict accordance with census results yesterday and rechecked all numbers. I don't know where the user gets his data. He cites the census but census numbers are different from the numbers he presents. --Irpen 20:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The table does not create any ethnicity. A table can only reflect some data. The table clearly states that it is the sum of M + R. The difference is insignificant, about 1%. It's pointless to argue, but the table reflects the truth: the number of M (78 thousand and 700 hundreds) + the number or R (750 people).
 * See above. --Irpen
 * See above -Dc76
 * Table differs from the census data. This should be fixed. I did it the best I could. I do not know from the census data how the 724 Romanians are distributed among the Raions. We can mention after the table the fact that among others 724 are Romanians and their distribution among the Raions is not available at the time. --02:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

4b) M and R are ethnically the same group, just as Lipovan Russian, are counted as Russians, and Rusyns are counted as Rusyns. This is based on academic truth.-DC76

 * People's etnicity is based not on some abstract "academic truth" but on their freely expressed self-identification. People in Odessa Oblast self-identified as Moldovans. Your theory that they are mistaken about themselves belongs to the talk pages at most. --Irpen
 * I told you, and please no offence, I mean none, if you don't know, mind your own business.-Dc76
 * Neither you or me are in position to decide who these people are. They expressed their ethnicity as they see it in the census. Our duty is to report it accurately. --Irpen

4c)Unlike other countries, people in Ukraine have to have official ethnicity, registered when they get their passports and identity cards.
 * Totally false. Ukrainian ID documents have no information about the etnicity. --Irpen
 * The data that they are required to fill and is then entered into the computer system, when getting IDs and passports, contains this info. If you want to change it, it is a process like changing your name.-Dc76
 * Not correct. There is no ethnicity question in any application for the document, passport, etc. Passports do not contain the ethnicity field either. --Irpen 02:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

4d)
 * Being official, one should apply in order to change it. Consequently, people who were forcibly registered during the Soviet era (sometimes as much as 60 years ago!) are "Moldovans" officially, although they consider themselves "Romanians" and consider the language they speak "Romanian". They consider themselves "Moldovans", too, since to them that means a regional, not ethnical designation. In the census, people were asked to declare their "official ethnicity", hence only very few were registered R. -Dc76

 * See above about "official etnicity". No such thing exists in Ukraine. Moreover, the "etnicity" question in the census is a write-in one. Respondents do not pick from pre-offered choices (such as Moldovans, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians, Jews, etc.) but answer as they like. I've seen the census questionary somewhere online. I can dig it out. --Irpen
 * See 4c)
 * Yes indeed, --Irpen

4e)
 * Saying that M and R are different ethnic groups is against the beliefs of M and R! Is it not true that if we simply add the numbers, then the issue is avoided altogether?-Dc 76
 * This is your own opinion, nothing more. --Irpen
 * Of course it is my opinion to avoid confrontation and to find a reasonable solution, to mention both M and R -Dc76
 * The reasonable solution is to respect people's choice and the documents based on that (official census results). -Irpen

4f)
 * Therefore, the table does NOT go into this whole argument. Only in one note, it is shortly given the reason. Perhaps we should add a link there to a page where this issue is explained?
 * Table with the data that refers to the census should reflect the census data as it is. --Irpen
 * It does -Dc76
 * Not with categories classified separately in the census lumped up together by Wikipedia editors. --Irpen

4g)
 * I have a suggestion, but I would like to listen to oppions of other people, too. Can we ask for some mediation? I suggest to leave the data with Moldavians (Moldovans?) only, and immediately after the table add a remark: -Dc76

 * Also, 724 people leaving in Budjak have identified themselves as Romanians, counted at "Others" in the above table. Moldovan / Romanian community from the region claims they are a single ethnicity.

 * (I wrote in the exact number)-Dc76

 * Please find the source for 750 people. You will also need a respectable source that would state "Moldavian / Romanian community from the region claims they are a single ethnicity." before adding it anywhere into the article. --Irpen 22:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's 724, I found the exact number, not rounded -Dc76
 * I agree to state that there are 724 people who identified themselves as Romanains after the table. This, however, says nothing about what community says what about single ethnicity. --Irpen

 * I still think it is a serious wrong done to the people of the region to forcibly divide them, but if this helps finish the argument, I would agree to the above compromise.-Dc76
 * No one is "dividing" those people. People self-identified as they wished by their free choice. --Irpen 22:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The question is not about what the data are, but how to present it. When you present one but not the other, you DO DIVIDE. I only say to print ALL THE DATA, not just PART OF IT.-Dc76
 * Agreed, let's print all the data rather than obscure the details by lumping separate categories together. --Irpen

5. So, will you change it back, or should I do it?

-leave Dniester. In a year or two, you yourself will change it.
 * I will if I see the usage changed, it hasn't yet. And note that Dniester is not based on Russian. That would have been Dnestr. --Irpen
 * Agreed.

-modify the map to correspond more to the reality
 * Agreed. --Irpen
 * Agreed. If it is hard to find better sourse, one can use Google satelite maps. I don't know how to contact the author, can you?

 * I gather from your source: "In anul 2001, s-au declarat romani, 724 de persoane si aproape 124.000 moldoveni, ceea ce reprezinta 5 la suta din populatia regiunii Odessa, cu 14,5 la suta mai putin decit cei care se declarasera romani in 1989. " Please translate this exactly for me. --Irpen
 * In 20001, 724 people have declared themselves Romanians, and almost 124.000 - Moldavians, which represents 5 percent of the population of the Odessa oblast, 14,5 percent less than the number declaring themselves Romanians in 1989 If you want the word-by-word translation:

In year 2001, themselves declared romanians, 724 people and almost 124.000 moldavians, which represents 5 percent of the population of the Odessa region, by 14,5 percent less than those themselves declared romanians in 1989. The article also talks about the problem of people being considered by authorities as two different communities, when they are a single.

-either restore the table as it was, or add immediately after it the observation about Romanians and Moldavians.
 * Agree to add the info about 724 people but no speculations about who thinks what. --Irpen
 * Even the article above shows that these two groops form a single community.
 * It is a newspaper report about a meeting between the Romanian foreign minister Mihai Razvan Ungureanu, and his Ukrainian counterpart Boris Tarasiuk in Odessa, at which were present representatives of the Romanian (! this is the word used by the two foreign ministers) community in the Odessa oblast. The main concerns are about education in the Romanian language (again the term is used). They point out that there are only 9 elementary+secondary schools in romanian, 9 elementary+secondary mixed (two or more languages), and only one high school. They talk about opening teaching in romanian at Odessa and Ismail universities, about issues of church subordination (mitropolitanate of Bessarabia vs Patriarchy of Moscow), also aboutsome romanian (by language, they are locals as people) priests have been agressed by criminals and the authorities did not take proper action.
 * As you can see the foreign minister of Ukraine does not have any issues about Romanians/Moldavians, he considers it appropriate to regard them as one community, not as two, and use the term Romanian language. He addresses the issues concerned frankly and openly, and does not have adversity based on national identity. Whether most of these promisses ever materialize in practice, that's a different issue, that depends on many more local bosses, who are driven by national intolerance.
 * The origin of the issue is that people consider themselves simultaneously Moldavian and Romanian. They speak Romanian language, and therefore consider it's proper to say "I'm Romanian". They belong to the historical region Moldavia (refering to the Principality of Moldavia), so they consider equally correct "I'm Moldavian". Moldavians (Romanians) do not see a contradiction in this. It is when the word ethnicity is used by other people, that there can be a misunderstanding. Romanian means the language, Moldavian means the region. What does ethnic means? We might be better off if we point out as in other countries the mother tongue rather than the "ethnicity". The concept of "ethnicity" as is understood in Ukraine is from old Soviet time, and had a purpose: erase all nationalities, ethnicities, languages, build the Soviet man. Fortunately there are many sane people in Ukraine, and the number of those who are stubborn in this Soviet-induced belief is slowly but surely decreasing. Moldavians(Romanians) from Ukraine would like to be able to declare themselves as both M and R, they don't see a contradiction. Ask proper question: language, citizenship, and you will receive strict answer. Ask vague question, and you result in...

-if you have done other modifications, except those 4 you pointed above (posibly an empty set, you know better), I will change them back. If you think they are legitimate, please discuss them here. Check-spelling does not count.
 * I did not make any drastic changes, I don't think. --Irpen 02:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, you did not make anything I would object to, except the issue with the table, and the usage "Moldavians (Romanians)" instead of just "Moldavains"
 * Ok, I'll make the modifications tonight or tomorrow night. I'll do my best to be neutral(Sorry i am more busy in real life). If you do modifications, please, also try to be neutral when talking about issues you don't know very much but have a predetermined point of view. I don't mean to blame you, it's just a recommendation. It's better to let people who know to do it, and point out to each sentance that does not sound ok. For example, it is widely believed among Romanians that Hutsul are Slavicized Romanians. But educated people regard this as an oppinion only, since there are only two things that can convince: 1) an explanation by a Hutsul, who studdied his/her group (I want to avoid the word ethnicity) 2) genetic studies, which are very hard to make and are pointless, because it counts what Hutsul people believe themselves.

Dc74, please translate this phrase from the link you added: "In anul 2001, s-au declarat romani, 724 de persoane si aproape 124.000 moldoveni, ceea ce reprezinta 5 la suta din populatia regiunii Odessa, cu 14,5 la suta mai putin decit cei care se declarasera romani in 1989."

Also, as I asked you, please do not spread the details of the R/M beinge single or not etnicity to every article where the world Moldovans is mentioned. At those links to minister's views to Moldovenism. I preserved a link to it in this article. --Irpen 00:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I did translate it for you before, I copy it from above now:

 * I gather from your source: "In anul 2001, s-au declarat romani, 724 de persoane si aproape 124.000 moldoveni, ceea ce reprezinta 5 la suta din populatia regiunii Odessa, cu 14,5 la suta mai putin decit cei care se declarasera romani in 1989. " Please translate this exactly for me. --Irpen
 * In 20001, 724 people have declared themselves Romanians, and almost 124.000 - Moldavians, which represents 5 percent of the population of the Odessa oblast, 14,5 percent less than the number declaring themselves Romanians in 1989 If you want the word-by-word translation:

In year 2001, themselves declared romanians, 724 people and almost 124.000 moldavians, which represents 5 percent of the population of the Odessa region, by 14,5 percent less than those themselves declared romanians in 1989. The article also talks about the problem of people being considered by authorities as two different communities, when they are a single.

 * about this article - Look, have it your way. I am tired of this! :Dc76 01:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Link names do not need translations
If a city or region name is linked (i.e., there is a Wikipedia article dealing with it), there is no need for multiple translations. If a reader is interested in alternate forms he or she can link to the respective article on the city or region. ("Foreign terms within the article body do not need native text if they can be specified as title terms in separate articles" from WP:BETTER.) An exception might be for Akkerman/Bilhorod-Dnistrovs'kyi/Cetatea Alba where the historical forms differ greatly and were used in English. —  AjaxSmack    04:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

This is one that tempts a violation of WP:POINT by adding Bulgarian, Gagauz, Greek, and other forms of toponyms in the article. Budjak is a genuinely multiethnic area and trying to represent every form of every name when there is ample room on the individual city pages for these names is frankly distracting clutter. —  AjaxSmack    18:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

External links modified
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Arrival and settlement of Ukrainians in Budjak
Hello,

The article doesn't explain at all, especially in the History section, when and how did the ethnic Ukrainians (not state citizens) arrived or settled in Budjak. Yet, the Ethnic groups and demographics section notes that they are 40%! How? Through which process/historical settlement, movement, migration etc? These two facts, need to be explained and put in concordance. For all the other ethnic groups (except with the political issue of lumping all Romanians as "Moldavians"), it is very clear from the History section, when each one of them arrived in or settled the area. Thanks --Codrin.B (talk) 15:56, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Budjak isn't only part of Ukraine (Odessa oblast) it is also partially in modern Republic of Moldova borders.
Budjak isn't only part of Ukraine (this is modern pro-Ukrainian fake-history idea). Budjak is historical region (XVI-XIX centuries) that now includes part of "Odessa oblast" (modern Ukraine region) and also part of modern Republic of Moldova (part of south districts of Republic of Moldova). Try to read normal (not Ukrainian fake) historical sources.

title: Talk:Budjak


text: Template:Regions of Mali

title: Template:Regions of Mali


text:
Luria

Luria can refer to:

 * Luria (gastropod), a genus of sea snail
 * Luria gens, an ancient Roman family
 * Luria (play), a play by Robert Browning, published in 1846

People
Luria is a surname, a variant of Lurie. It may refer to:

 * Alexander Luria (1902–1977), Russian neuropsychologist
 * Elaine Luria, former member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Virginia's 2nd district, and former United States Navy Commander.
 * Isaac Luria (1534–1572), Jewish mystic from Safed
 * Johanan Luria, Alsatian Talmudist
 * Roger de Luria (c. 1245–1305), Sicilian/Aragonese admiral
 * Salvador Luria (1912–1991), Italian microbiologist
 * Solomon Luria (1510–1573), Ashkenazic rabbi

title: Luria


text:
AWA International Television Championship

The AWA International Television Championship was a short-lived title in the American Wrestling Association from 1987 to 1989. It was filled with a several months long tournament and was defended on their television broadcast on ESPN.

As explained by Larry Nelson on the AWA Championship Wrestling show on ESPN, the first two wrestlers in the tournament to reach 50 points (with 5 points being awarded or deducted for a pinfall or submission victory or loss, and 2.5 points being awarded or deducted for a countout or disqualification victory or loss) faced off in the finals to determine the first champion.

Title history
.


text:
Talk:BC Žalgiris

Name of the page
It should NOT be "Kauno" Žalgiris, because "Kauno" is an adjective in Lithuanian, and this is an English-language site. It is also best to avoid adjectives when not necessary; for example, "Arsenal F.C." is not called "Londoner Arsenal". "BC Žalgiris" is the official name of the club and how it is referred to throughout the world. --Dryazan 12:36, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

lukauskis doesn't play in Zalgiris! and he never did..he plays in other lithuanian team Lietuvos rytas..

Kalnietis is PG and Dilys is SF

FIBA not FIFA and missing players
firstly Sonny Weems is missing even though the edit page shows him for incoming players. Someone else put him in but I do not know hoe to correct it. Secondly there are numerous mentions of Fifa when I'm sure it is supposed to be Fiba.24.36.110.176 (talk) 03:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:BC Žalgiris


text:
Andrew Caldecott

Sir Andrew Caldecott (26 October 1884 – 14 July 1951) was a British colonial administrator.

Early years
Andrew Caldecott was born on 26 October 1884 in Boxley, Kent, United Kingdom. He was the eldest child of Rev Andrew Caldecott and Isobel Mary Johnson. His mother was the daughter of Rev Stenning Johnson. Lieutenant John Leslie Caldecott (1886 – 9 September 1914), Andrew's younger brother, served in the Royal Garrison Artillery and later served as the aide-de-camp to the Governor of Nyasaland. John participated in World War I and died on 9 September 1914 in Nyasaland (now Malawi) at the age of 28, with his remains buried at the Karonga War Cemetery.

Education
Andrew Caldecott studied at Uppingham School in Rutland and was awarded scholarships, enabling him to be admitted to Exeter College of the University of Oxford. He achieved outstanding academic results while in college and had been awarded scholarships. He gained a third class in Classical Honour Moderations and subsequently graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in Classics (second-class honours) in 1907. In 1948, he was conferred as an Honorary Fellow by Exeter College.

Malayan career
Upon his graduation from college in 1907, Caldecott joined the Colonial Office in November of the same year and was posted to Malaya. He initially worked in Negeri Sembilan as a Cadet of the Federated Malay States (FMS). He served as Acting District Officer (DO) of Jelebu from 1909 to 1911. In 1911, he was appointed as Acting DO of Kuala Pilah, and was transferred back to Jelebu to serve as DO in the same year. He was re-appointed Acting DO of Kuala Pilah in the following year. In 1913, Caldecott was transferred to the Federal Secretariat in Kuala Lumpur and assumed the office of Deputy Controller of Labour. He subsequently held various positions, including Assistant Secretary (AS) to the Chief Secretary (1914 – 1916), 2nd AS to the Federal Secretary (1916 – 1920) and Acting AS to the colonial government (1920 – 1922). Caldecott went on leave from September 1922; he took up the ad hoc appointment as Malayan Commissioner at the British Empire Exhibition held at Wembley Park in the United Kingdom in 1924 and 1925. During the exhibition, he was in charge of the coordination of the Malaya Pavilion. Thereafter, he was conferred CBE by the British government.

After the exhibition, Caldecott returned to Malaya in March 1926 and worked as Town Planning Administrator and State Valuer of Ipoh; he was transferred to the Housing and Public Works Department Enquiry Committees as chairman in December 1926.

He was appointed Deputy Controller of Labour and Acting Under-Secretary to the Straits Settlements in July 1927, until 1928, when he was promoted to Secretary for Postal Affairs of the Straits Settlements and FMS as Officer, Class 1A. Since then, Caldecott had been assigned to serve in local authorities; he became Acting Resident of Negeri Sembilan in 1929 and Acting Resident of Perak from 1930 to 1931. He was appointed to serve as Resident of Selangor, until March 1932, when he was transferred back to the central government of FMS as Chief Secretary. He served as Colonial Secretary of the Straits Settlements from May 1933 to February 1934.

On 17 February 1934, Caldecott worked as Acting Governor of the Straits Settlements and High Commissioner of FMS, when Sir Cecil Clementi, the then-Governor of the Straits Settlements retired due to illness. During his tenure as Acting Governor, Caldecott upheld Clementi's policy of decentralisation. He was re-appointed Colonial Secretary when Sir Shenton Thomas took office on 9 November 1934.

During his time in Malaya, Caldecott earned a reputation for his ability to settle disputes between different ethnic groups which made him popular with all races, a rare feat for a colonial administrator given the diversity of the Straits Settlements population. He also served as the first president of the Football Association of Malaysia.

Governor of Hong Kong
In 1935, Caldecott was appointed governor of Hong Kong. His tenure was the shortest in Hong Kong colonial history, for he was appointed the second last Governor of Ceylon a little more than a year later to handle the threat to the British administration caused by the overwhelming national liberation movement in Ceylon. When arriving in Hong Kong to assume the Governorship, Caldecott, unusually, elected to wear civilian dress, something that would not happen again until the arrival, in 1992, of the last colonial Governor, Chris Patten. His departure to Ceylon was met with dismay by the community as he had become a respected figure. Locals had petitioned to Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden for him to remain but to no avail.

It was during Caldecott's tenure that Hong Kong's Kai Tak Airport received its first regular arrival, the "Dorado" and the Queen Mary Hospital opened as an adjunct hospital to the Hong Kong University (the hospital is now under the control of the Hong Kong Hospital Authority). Caldecott called the promotion of Chinese civil servants to replace the European ones, a policy not realized until the signage of Sino-British Joint Declaration in 1984. His tenure also saw the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War, with more than 100,000 refugees from the Chinese Mainland flooding into Hong Kong to escape the conflict.

Governor of Ceylon
He was sent to Ceylon (Sri Lanka) to examine the situation in the island closely and report on issues such as the governing structure, the representation of the minority communities, the franchise etc. His observations regarding these issues had an important impact on the evolution of the Ceylon constitution.

Caldecott was governor during World War II. During his governance, in 1938, the first diesel locomotive ran to Galle, in 1939, the Bank of Ceylon opened, and, in 1942, the University of Ceylon was established.

Personal life
Caldecott married Olive Mary Innes, daughter of J. R. Innes, CMG in 1918. He knew his wife while she served as a civil servant in Malaya. She died of illness in Ceylon in 1943. Following her death, Caldecott married Evelyn May Palmer (1877-1974), widow of Dr John Robertson and daughter of the Rev. Henry Palmer and Clara Jane Marten, in 1946. Olive bore him a son and a daughter, namely John Andrew Caldecott, CBE (25 February 1924 – 14 July 1990) and Joan Caldecott. His son was Chairman of M&G Group.

Caldecott had a wide range of hobbies. He had published many articles with regards to the affairs of Malaya, and had written books about Malayan history in his early years. In his late years, he published two collections of supernatural fiction, "Not Exactly Ghosts" (1947) and "Fires Burn Blue" (1948). Besides writing, his other hobbies include drawing, playing the piano, tennis and golf.

Caldecott composed the melody to the Negeri Sembilan anthem, Berkatlah Yang DiPertuan Besar Negeri Sembilan.

Works

 * History of Jelebu, 1912.
 * Not Exactly Ghosts, 1947.
 * Fires Burn Blue, 1948.

Awards and honours

 * C.B.E., 1926
 * C.M.G., 1932
 * K.B.E., 1935
 * K.St.J., 1936
 * K.C.M.G., 1937
 * G.C.M.G., 1941
 * Awarded M.A. in Oxon
 * Awarded LL.D. in Ceylon
 * Malayan Commissioner, British Empire Exhibition, 1924-5
 * Member, Royal Asiatic Society (M.R.A.S.)
 * Fellow, Royal Society of Arts (F.R.S.A.)
 * Honorary Fellow, Royal Philharmonic Society, 1947

Places named after Andrew Caldecott
In Hong Kong, Caldecott Road, a road in New Kowloon, is named after him.

In Singapore, Caldecott Hill, Caldecott Close, Caldecott MRT station and Andrew Road are named after him, and Olive Road is named after his first wife.

title: Andrew Caldecott


text:
Talk:Black cat (disambiguation)

The Case of the Black Cat
The Case of the Black Cat is not an ambiguous title, and it does not require disambiguation from the other uses listed here. The Manual of Style for disambiguation pages states, "On a page called Title, do not create entries merely because Title is part of the name." An exception could be made if The Case of the Black Cat was also known as just Black Cat or The Black Cat, but I don't see any support for that in the article. As an unambiguous use, The Case of the Black Cat does not belong on the disambiguation page.-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  20:21, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

temple of the dog song
Temple of the dog also have a song named "black cat", though i dont know if it's a cover or if any of the others is a cover of it. could anyone look into this and add it to the disambiguation page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.69.68.216 (talk) 18:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

 * The problem is, this song, which apparently was never officially released, is not mentioned in the band's article, or in any related article. A dab page is not the place to assert a use that is not supported by an article, so before it can be listed on the disambiguation page, it must be included in a Wikipedia article.-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  19:59, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

 * thanks, ive already posted a comment on the temple of the dog page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.69.68.216 (talk) 23:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Black cat (disambiguation)