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Rebuttal to Bill Thayer
Bill, as you know, you have posted a message on the discussion boards for many of the Italian Regions, where you state you have removed links for ItalianVisits.com because, in your opinion, they constitute "link spam" and maybe an act of Vandalism. I see you have removed the ItalianVisits link in this section too.

I am the "someone" who added links to ItalianVisits.com on the various Italian Regional sites - and I don't think I was commiting "link spam" or engaged in vandalism when I did so. ItalianVisits.com is a serious endeavour being undertaken by my daughter, Jesse Andrews, who for the past 2 years has been living in Praia A Mare, in the northwest region of Calabria. My other daughter, Arianna, is attending university at the University for Foreigners in Perugia, and also contributes to the ItalianVisits website when she can.

If you look at the section on Calabria, you will see how much work and effort has been put into cataloguing towns and villages that are virtually unknown to English-speaking people, whether they are travelers or tourists, or people who have a curiousity about the area. You will note, I hope, the abundance of wonderful photographs that compliment the text, and present our viewers with images that otherwise would not be available. Incidentally, you should also note the link to Wikipedia resources whereever and whenever there is material on Wikidpedia about a region, town or other locale. We are as committed to Wikipedia as you are.

Jesse has created a vessel into which more information is being added every day. I just spent 15 days in Umbria, for instance, and added pages for Perugia, Assisi, Spello, Bevagna, Gubbio and the Regional Park at Colfiorito. Other contributors, like Katherine Lavallee, have added information about other towns in Tuscany. Such contributions are solicited eagerly so that we can fatten the content on the site.

ItalianVisits.com is hardly a come-on for selling tour packages, although we are trying to attract people to "unknown" parts of Italy, and in so doing, get some business to those out of the way places for local restauranteurs, hoteliers, and others in the travel business. If you are aware of what is going on in Italy now, you will understand that the economy is depressed, owing largely to various difficulties it has and is facing as it tries to integrate with the EU, and as it attempts to compete in a global economy. So, having information for travelers can not be the sine qua non of "link spam". If you look at all the external links listed in the Umbria section of Wikipedia, a number of them are active promoters of travel to the Region. Even in the various regional sections of Italy where you posted identical comments to the comments you made here there are links to sites that promote and facilitate travel. Should all of these be removed? And if so, by whom and under what (hopefully) reasonably well-defined policy?

You can coin or use phrases like "link spam", and "cyber vandalism", or other terms of denigration, but I think you, and others who "worry" about Wikipedia, should be careful not to sit on Wikipedia with a holier than thou attitude, deleting other people's contributions, unless a more thorough investigation is done into the content, and sometimes into the motives and objectives of their creators. Many people spend a lot of time, money and energy trying to do good without much reward beyond the satisfactions it provides. This effort to "do good" is manifest on your site Bill, at least, so far as I can see, and I commend you for it.

I'm a bit more than a little chagrined about what you have done Bill, and about how you have characterized ItalianVisits, but I hope we can discuss this if you think I am making an untenable argument in favour of allowing us to post links to the IV website, without fear of having them removed by the over-zealous.

Regards Vian Andrews Vancouver, BC July 28, 2005

Links, continued
I removed a link to not very good map. For other articles where there is no link to a map, that same site's OK, but it's really commercial spam; and in this case there are several maps among the other links. Bill 21:57, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Acquasparta
I added a short article for the town of Acquasparta that others may wish to review. It was written using information gleaned from the Internet and therefore can not be said to be very reliable. Feel free to correct and supplement the article.JVian 01:23, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Carsulae
I added an article about Carsulae, containing a list of monuments and a site diagram. Again, the information in the article was synthesized from readily available materials on the Internet and should therefore be treated with care.JVian 01:23, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

tah
thanks for helping it was interestibg tah

Return to the useful links
Now that the furore has died down about how awful all those sites were, and how commercial they were; that the interlopers have left who couldn't be bothered with keeping an eye on the page (so that a few true junky commercial sites and scant collections of tourist pix did start to slither in) — I'm restoring the careful list of good informational sites..... Bill 20:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Added section with Ms. Bellucci's photo
The entire section was garbage, with many factual errors. The two principal ones: the 16c idea, from a passage in Pliny, that the Umbrians were the original inhabitants of Italy, has long been shown to be false; and the (sentimental) nonsense about history sparing Umbria is grotesquely wrong. Umbria was a horrific bottleground during most of late Antiquity and the Middle Ages; and the business about hill-top towns is hardly unique to Umbria, but all over Italy. (The minor things? Umbria not known for cheese, quite on the contrary: the best cheese area of Italy is Northern Italy: Piemonte, Emilia-Romagna, Liguria. Umbria not known for chocolate, either: just one manufacturer, Perugina: a single commercial concern hardly makes a region famous for anything. Monica Bellucci — and the person who added this farrago of nonsense, see their "Contributions", was primarily interested in spreading her picture about — is hardly an Umbrian type, short and square-faced.) Bill 02:42, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I am from Umbria and Monica looks just like my Aunt in her younger years. She has very classic features. The area is well known for very unique chocolates considered to be the best in Italy as well as very unique Chocolate liquors. Umbria has the largest concentration of hill towns. Most of Umbria was spared from outside invaders less often than other areas of Italy. I think it should be left alone.--Caligvla 06:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Bé se vuoi dire grosse bugie, vai.... La Bellucci è una bella ragazza; ma sebbene non vissi quarant' anni in Umbria, non si può dire che sia tipica. I cioccolati? la Perugina. Non è una tradizione particolarmente diffusa sul territorio; avresti potuto anzi parlare della norcineria, dei tartufi, del cinghiale, della palomba alla ghiotta, che ne so. Nemmeno i formaggi, paragonati al resto dell' Italia, nè certo alla Francia ad esempio. L' iper-romantismo della storia che avrebbe risparmiato l' Umbria, ahimè! E le tantissime battaglie attorno all' asse della Flaminia, che ne fai? ad es. quella di Tadino, senza contare tutte le lotte sul territorio intero nel Medioevo, Spoletini contra Trevani, il Gattamelata a Narni e altri condottieri che spogliarono tutto il territorio, Tuderti e Perugini (e Baglioni) contra tutti, ecc. Per quanto riguarda l'idea (dovuta a Plinio il Vecchio) che gli Umbri sarebbero i più antichi abitanti dell' Italia, Thomas Ashby direttore dell' Accademia Americana di Roma non è stato il primo a negarlo, e ancora meno l' ultimo; oltrepassato dagli studiosi da due secoli. Insomma, è questo tipo di cose che fanno della Wikipedia una risorsa inaffidabile e anche, spesso, ridicula. Peccato. Bill 21:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

 * And how, as a purported Italian, you could describe Umbria, in one small sentence, by the further two falsehoods that it is "the only landlocked provence (sic)" in Italy, is beyond me. Umbria is a region and not a province; no Italian would make the mistake, at least not since 1927 when it was divided., of course; and the map in front of everyone's eyes shows clearly that there are several other landlocked regions in Italy; hint, look north. 24.148.19.254 21:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I do not see any reason to differentiate the people of Umbria from that of the rest of central Italy. Maybe at the time of Pliny, the thing about aboriginals was true, but not now, clearly. First, umbrians are not homogeneous today, as in past times; northerners, centralers, and southerners speak very different dialects, letting you think they come from different roots. Even the story about invaders is not fully true: lombards ruled over Spoleto for centuries, after their invasion from central Europe in Middle Age; and let me cite the oppression from papal (swiss, french) troops, dominating Perugia, Todi, and a lot of other hilltop towns, for nearly half a millennium. Typical products for which umbrians are well known are, as Mr. Thayer said, ceramica (pottery), norcineria (art of butchery applied to pigs' meat), loom-made tissues, steel factories and one large chocolate factory. The photo of Monica is wonderful, as she really is, thus she may be kept, only the accompanying section should be reworked completely. --Cantalamessa 00:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Maybe I can help...

''The physical features of the people of Umbria are what many scholars believe to be very close to the ancient people of the Italian peninsula. ''

He said close not they actual people, so I think this is fine, they most likely do look closer than other areas that were dominated by outsiders for longer periods of time.

History has been gentle to Umbria, compared to other areas of Italy.

If you juse leave it a gentile it's too soft.

''largely due to the construction of hilltop towns. While other locations of Italy were subjected to invaders over time, the majority of Umbrian towns were well protected on hill tops. Often too daunting for invaders to bother with. Umbria is landlocked. The lack of ports have allowed Umbrians to remain unaffected throughout history by sea traders.''

I think this is okay.

Then end result being the original homogeneous people of Italy.

I think this becomes original research, if we put "The end result being a group of people who are fairly close to the original homogeneous peopel of Italy."

The Umbrian people are known for high quality chocolates, cheeses, and women of great beauty.

I think cheese and chocolate is a bit trivial.

"The Umbrian people, like all the other regions of Italy, are known for women of great beauty." I think this helps make his point inclusively vs. exclusively.

hope I helped.--MCMLXXI 06:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I have changed the section by removing weasel words and inaccuracies. Since it may contain "spelling errors", please feel free to clean-up it, at least without reverting it back to the old version, which is partly nonsense. --Cantalamessa 08:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Since the user Caligula keeps deleting my edits, I've left a message on his talk page, just to understand how can we improve the section, after he reverted it due to the bad spelling. I hope he will share his thoughts with us here. --Cantalamessa 10:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Post your revision here, so we can discuss it.--Caligvla 14:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Here it is
 * The physical features of the people of Umbria are what many scholars believe to be very close to the ancient people of the Italian peninsula. History has been gentle to Umbria, largely due to the construction of hilltop towns. While other locations of Italy were subjected to invaders over time, many Umbrian towns were protected on hill tops. The lack of ports have also allowed Umbrians to remain almost unaffected, throughout history, by sea traders. As a consequence, it is nowadays possible to recognize differences in customs and spoken dialects, which can be related to those ones existing between the original peoples that settled in the region in past times (mainly, Etruscans and Umbrians).
 * I've tried to follow the suggestions given by the other editors, being as conservative as possible. The sentence on the beauty of umbrian females is totally nonsense, for me: every people claims that its females are the most beautiful, intelligent, and harmonious beings on earth! (finishing to discover, once married, that such statements are dangerous...) --Cantalamessa 17:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the statement see below,

The physical characteristics of the Umbrian people are what many scholars

believe to be very close to the ancient people of the Italian peninsula. While Umbria like most of Italy has had a turbulent past. Most of Umbria’s conflicts were with neighboring rival communities. Due to the construction of hilltop towns, outside invaders were rare. The lack of ports have also allowed Umbrians to remain unaffected by sea traders. Resulting in a homogeneous people that are very close to their ancient ancestors. It is possible to recognize differences in customs and spoken dialects, which are closely related to the original people that settled in the region (mainly, Etruscans and Umbrians). Umbrian women throughout history have been know for their great beauty.

The line about women is not offensive, it is not saying they are the most beautiful in Umbria just that they have a reputation for great beauty, so I think it's fine...--Caligvla 08:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Though I'm not a native english speaker, is this sentence correct: "While Umbria like most of Italy has had a turbulent past." ? There is neither proper punctuation nor this colloquial style is good for an encyclopedia, in my opinion. There are syntactical errors, I think, also in "The lack of ports have also ...", in "Umbrian women throughout history have been know ...", and in "Resulting in a homogeneous people that are ...". And, "... ancient ancestors ..." sounds not too good. Sorry, Caligula, if I use your same weapons, but if you say that my original revision had (RV too many spelling errors), well, I can say the same thing about this one, with the only difference that I am not gonna reverting it back :-) Moreover, if you state that umbrian women are known for their beauty, please provide a reference for this. Last, if umbrians are homogeneous, why in the following sentence you accept that there are differences between them? --Cantalamessa 09:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Good fight, but a losing one. The statement about Umbrian women is indeed nonsense; the great historical beauties of Italy have been those of the three big cities (Rome, Florence, Venice), merely because there were a lot of people to see them, and painters and poets to make them famous. I can't think of a single Umbrian woman — before our own time — famous for her beauty; the odds are, neither can anyone else.
 * Similarly, but more importantly, nonsense also is the statement that Umbrians are, or are like, the oldest inhabitants of the peninsula. The origin of that occasionally heard old chestnut is, as I've already pointed out, a single statement in Pliny (NH III.112): Umbrorum gens antiquissima Italiae existimatur, ut quos Ombrios a Graecis putent dictos, quod in inundatione terrarum imbribus superfuissent. — "The race of Umbrians is judged to be the oldest of Italy, since they are thought to have been called Ombrios by the Greeks because they survived the rains (imbres) in the universal deluge." The statement is nonsense, as the mythical element and folk-etymology show, and has been discredited by scholars for about two hundred years; it is now also refuted by the results of excavations thruout Italy. It's just not true.
 * Similarly again, the statement about history being gentle to Umbria — disregarding the saccharine pseudo-romanticism of the phrasing — is false. Not a little false, not weasel-around false, but pure unadulterated balderdash false. The various attempts at weaseling around (in order to try and make it true in some sense) don't improve it much, even if the ferocious local fighting is now acknowledged: three of the fiercest and most devastating battles ever fought on the soil on Roman Italy were fought in Umbria: the battle of Lake Trasimene, the battle of Tadinum, and the battle of Perusia, during and after which Augustus slaughtered very many Umbrians; and a fourth, the battle of Sentinum, just barely misses the boundaries of modern Umbria by 7 km: all of them were caused by outside invaders. In more recent history, the horrific slaughter of the inhabitants of Perugia by outsiders (Papal troops) in 1859 is famous on an Italy-wide level, and will qualify as another bit of history's gentleness to Umbria, no doubt.
 * Finally, look at who made the original insertion of this entire section, how long they've been on Wikipedia, and why it was done: On Nov. 5, User:Gubbio (no homepage) turns up on Wikipedia for the first time, adds the beautiful picture of Monica Bellucci that he himself took, then modifies the Umbria article on Nov. 6. Ms. Bellucci's features are hardly typical of Umbria, and only the inane line now left about Umbrian women being known for their ravenous beauty remains to "justify" the eye-candy. C'mon, folks, let's be serious: pitch the whole business. Bill 17:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

And now, as Cantalamessa points out, for the grammar and stuff. (By the way, C, congrats for being the person who finally fixed the article Marche; see my user page....)

The physical characteristics of the Umbrian people are what many scholars believe to be very close to the ancient people... (characteristics are not close to people, but to their characteristics: "those of" is required; also, characteristics are what... is very poor writing. The author of this garbage at least meant The physical characteristics of the Umbrian people are similar, according to many scholars, to those of...)

''While Umbria, like most of Italy has had a turbulent past. Most of....''; the writer was allergic to commas, so the sentence. Is incomplete.

The lack of ports have — Singular subject, plural verb: no.

Resulting in a homogeneous people that are very close to their ancient ancestors. Another non-sentence.

dialects, which are closely related to the original people. Dialects are not related to people.

And, leaving the syntax and style for a second, I just noticed another falsehood: the current Umbrian dialect is almost certainly not related to Etruscan in the least. What little we know of Etruscan shows it to be quite unrelated to Latin, Italian, and the Italian dialects. The ancient Umbrian language, since it was a member of the Osco-Latin family, is a bit better fit, but is only marginally related to modern Umbrian dialects. In fact, these local dialects are very much in the mainstream of Italian dialect, deriving from Latin rather than ancient Umbrian. Within the family of Italian dialects, the Umbrian group is less distinctive than many: much closer to standard Italian (which after all is a blend of Tuscan and Roman) than Venetian, Sardinian, Sicilian for example. Anyhoo, if you can recognize Etruscan or ancient Umbrian in what one hears in Umbria, you're a great scholar (and hearing some statistically unusual conversations). Bill 22:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Wow, this section is a bit overgrown... never expected it! I am not an historian/linguist, so I cannot dispute about the dialect matter. But just hearing at the difference in speech and tonality which happens in as few as 5-10 kms under the Tiber line, and remembering that it was a natural border for Etruscans, it gives me the idea of a linguistic difference that could have persisted over centuries. If this is related to the etruscan language or to the peoples living there, I do not know. Bill, you are right about the low distinctiveness of Umbrian dialect, which is amidst Tuscan and Roman, and thus very next to mainstream Italian. But let me say that Italian-speaking people coming from regions other than Umbria, sometimes find it difficult to discern between the speech used in Città di Castello (northern Umbria) and the one in Perugia, even if they hear that a difference exists. Great is also the distance between Ternano and Perugino, completely different to me, especially in their tonality. (Possibly this is true for any region in the world where relative isolation and low mobility of inhabitants permitted such a condition.) Thus, concluding (and unfortunately for me), I'm not able to tell if Etruscans or Umbrians left their linguistic heritage in some Umbrian words: I just can say that there is neither a unique nor uniformly spoken dialect throughout the region. --Cantalamessa 00:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Boy, do I not write clearly: it's my running joke with myself! I hope I didn't say that in Stroncone they talk the same way they do in Pietralunga.... (I carefully used the plural, too, in speaking of Umbrian dialects.) I've bumped into it myself quite unwittingly, having learned a few words at the market in Todi where I stayed my first few months, then repeated them later in Spello: understood, but thought peculiar, not 40 miles away! (Quest' Umbro-Americano dirà sempre una "gaboccia d' aglio"). But my main point for that section is a very simple one: it is foolish to say that modern speech differences are recognizably due to the ancient Umbrian language; and absolutely certainly not from Etruscan.

 * No, this section, which needs to be thrown out completely, is a perfect example of why Wickedpedia is not a serious resource. Someone with a half-baked motion comes along and inserts something, then everybody tries to "save" it by fudging, weaseling, flattening. Foolishness is unsavable, and should be plain deleted. Wackopedia is OK to some extent in scientific fields, because most of us, quite rightly, don't think we can say anything useful or true. The humanities, however, have that air about them that the common run of us can make statements with impunity; so people do — yet the humanities, for all their "fuzziness", are just as much subject to the laws of truth and evidence as the sciences, and it is just as palpably false to say that modern Umbrians are descended from the earliest race of Italians, and that the current dialects are related to Etruscan, and Umbria is famous for beautiful women and cheese, and that history has been gentle to it — as to say that the speed of light is 80 kilometers per hour, and that it emanates from the eyes of the person who sees it. Anyone who made such statements in one of Wpedia's scientific articles would be reverted immediately without argument; but because here this is the humanities, here's a bunch of people arguing about saving what is obvious garbage. Picking over details about just what kind of women are more beautiful in Umbria than elsewhere, or whether Spellano or the dialect of Ficulle might not have some Etruscan words in it, or trying to make Umbria the abode of the bluebird of happiness by circumscribing the source of the many vicious battles fought there, none of this solves the problem: it just takes garbage and makes it flat, ungraspable weaselly garbage.
 * Imagine doing this with a scientific article! Someone comes in, says that light travels at 80 kph; then others try to fix it by saying that some people say, and some light might under special conditions, and sound after all travels slower, and red light does not travel at the same speed as blue light (which I believe? is very marginally true, for example).... Bill 11:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Quick Poll
Who here was actually born and raised in an Umbrian town? just sign your name under the proper statement. MCMLXXI 23:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I was born and raised in Umbria
 * Luogo di nascita, Gubbio, Umbria. --Gubbio 01:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Perugia --Caligvla 03:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I was NOT born and raised in Umbria
 * Bill 23:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC) (So però che stai facendo, amico....)

"Poll"
So someone out there believes, bless them, that only Umbrians can say anything about the (non-)relationship of the Etruscan language to Umbrian dialects, about the history of Umbria, about bad grammar, folk etymology, archaeological evidence as to the early inhabitants of Italy, the source of popular beliefs, Pliny the Elder, the fame of Umbria as to X or Y? (For this last, a reminder that "fame", by definition, means that lots of people know something; if lots of people don't, then there is no fame). Your objection, 1971, to the deletion of the garbage section was that it should be it should be built on rather than blanket-deleted. And yet, did you build on it? No, you blanket-restored it; you didn't correct even the obvious and irrefutable errors of grammar and style, or even the typos. The reason I didn't do so myself, of course, is that I believe the section, as garbage, cannot be built on, and should not be "improved." It is beyond that. A more obvious tissue of falsehoods would be hard to write, even on Wackypedia. And weaseling just dilutes it: instead of the initial bucket of urine, you're suggesting we add water to the stuff....Bill 23:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I will not sign this kind of poll, too. More positive towards one for deciding whether this section should be kept, reworked, or deleted. Just let me say that one of the humanities' scientists wich studied in depth umbrian language and customs, before they were partially swept and milded by industrialization (up to 1940, Umbrians were 90% peasants) and emigration, was a german one, Paul Scheuermeier, definitely neither umbrian nor italian. --Cantalamessa 00:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * P.S.: I know una speccia d'aglio.

Amici umbri, perché non avete inserito queste bugie nella voce Italiana? No, sure enough, you guys haven't dumped this stuff in the Italian article: you know it would be laughed out of court there, by Italians.... Nor would the nonsense about serene and blessed Umbria hold up there for a minute: the history section of the Italian article, small as it is, is almost all taken up by references to the battles between Lombards, Ostrogoths, Byzantines. Bill 18:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

History of Umbria
Due to the recent mini-war on the People of Umbria section, I think we can give a great help to this article by writing down the history of the region. It can be retrieved for example from the Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911 edition, here and here (Volume V27, pp. 576-577). This is the OCR-ed version, which I provide for further editing. (Many errors are present, but please note the statement rejecting Pliny's idea about the antiqueness of umbrian people, and the detailed report on Etruscan invasion.)

UMBRIA (Όμβρική), the name of an ancient and a modern district of Italy.

1. The ancient district was bounded in the period of the Roman supremacy by the Ager Gallicus (in a line with Ravenna) on the north, by Etruria (the Tiber) on the west, by the Sabine territory on the South and by Picenum on the east. The Via Flaminia passed up through it from Ocriculum to Ariminum; along it lay the important towns of Narnia (Narni), Carsulae, Mevania (Bevagna), Forum Flaminii, Nuceria Camellaria (Nocera Umbra) and Forum Sempronii; and on the Adriatic coast Fanum Fortunae (Fano) and Pisaurum (Pesaro). To the east lay Interamna (Terni), Spoletium (Spoleto), Fulginium (Foligno, on a branch of the Via Flaminia which left the main road at Varina and rejoined it at Forum Flaminii) and the important town of Camerinum on the side of the Apennines towards Picenum. On the side towards Etruria lay Ameria (Amelia) and Tuder (Todi), both on the direct road from Rome to Perusia, Iguvium, which occupied a very advantageous position close to the main pass through the Apennines, and Hispellum (Spello). Not far off was Assisium (Assisi), whilst far to the north in the mountains lay Sarsina. Under the empire it formed the sixth region of Italy. In earlier times it embraced a far larger area. Herodotus (iv. 49) describes it as extending to the Alps, and the περίοδος ascribed to Scylax (a treatise which embodies material of the 4th century B.C. or earlier) makes Umbria conterminous with Samnium. Furthermore, place names of undoubted Umbrian origin abound in Etruria and are also found in the Po valley. Thus in the early days of Italian history Umbria may be taken as having extended over the greater part of northern and central Italy. The name Umbria is derived from the Umbri, one of the chief constituent stocks of the Italian nation. The origin and ethnic affinities of the Umbrians are still in some degree a matter of dispute, but their language proven them to have been an Aryan people closely allied with the Oscans and in a remoter degree with the Latins. Archaeological considerations further show with approximate certainty that the Umbri are to be identified with the creators of the Terramara (q.v.), and probably also of the Villanova (q.v.) culture in northern and central Italy, who at the beginning of the Bronze Age displaced the original Ligurian population by an invasion from the north-east. From the time and starting point of their migrations, as well as from their type of culture, it may be provisionally inferred that the Umbrians were cognate with the Achaeans of prehistoric Greece. Pliny’s statement (iii. 13, 19) that they were the most ancient race of Italy may certainly be rejected. The process by which the Umbrians were deprived of their predominance in upper and central Italy and restricted to their confines of historic times cannot be traced in any detail. A tradition declares that their easternmost territory in the region of Ancona was wrested from them by the Picen(t)es, a branch of the Sabine stock. It may also be conjectured that they were partly displaced in the valley of the Po by the Gaulish tribes which began to pour across the Alps from about 500 B.C. But their chief enemies were undoubtedly the Etruscans. These invaders, whose encroachments can be determined by archaeological evidence as proceeding from the western seaboard towards the north and east, and as lasting from about 700 to 500 B.C., eventually drove the Umbrians into that upland tract athwart the Apennines to which the name of Umbria belonged in historical times. In the course of this struggle the Etruscans are said to have captured 300 Umbrian towns. Nevertheless the Umbrian element of population does not seem to have been eradicated in the conquered districts. Strabo records a tradition that the Umbrians recovered their ground in the plain of the Po at the expense of the Etruscans, and states that the colonies subsequently founded in this region by the Romans contained large Umbrian contingents. In Etruria proper the persistence of the Umbrian stock is indicated by the survival of numerous Umbrian place names, and by the record of Umbrian soldiers taking part in Etruscan enterprises, e.g. the attack on Cumae in 524 B.C. Indeed it is not unlikely that the bulk of the population in Etruria continued to be of Umbrian origin, and that the Romanization of this country was facilitated by the partial absorption of the Etruscan conquerors into the Umbrian multitude. Against the Romans the Umbrians never fought any wars of importance, a fact which may be explained partly by the remoteness of their position, but chiefly by the common hostility of the two nations to the Etruscans. After the downfall of the Etruscan power they made a related attempt to aid their Samnite kinsmen in their decisive struggle against Rome (308 B.C.); but their communications with Samnium were impeded by the foundation of a Roman fortress at Narnia (298 B.C.), and at the great battle of Sentinum (295 B.C.), which was fought in their own territory, the Umbrians are not reported to have lent the Samnites any substantial help. It is perhaps on account of this defection that in 200 B.C. they received from the Romans a portion of the Ager Gallicus reconquered from the Senonian Gauls. They offered no opposition to the construction of the Via Flaminia through the heart of their country, and in the Second Punic War withheld all assistance from Hannibal. In the Social War (90—89 A.C.), they joined the rebels tardily and were among the first to make their peace with Rome. Henceforth the Umbrians no longer played an independent part in Italian history. The material prosperity of Umbria, in spite of its unfavourable position for commercial intercourse, was relatively great, owing to the fertility of the numerous small valleys which intersect the Apennine system in this region. The chief products of the soil were olives, vines and spelt; the uplands harboured the choicest boars of Italy. In Pliny’s time there still existed in Umbria 49 independent communities, and the abundance of inscriptions and the high proportion of recruits furnished to the imperial army attest its continued populousness. Among its most famous natives were the poets Plautus (b. at Sarsina) and Propertius (b. at Assisi). Of the Umbrians’ political and municipal organization little is known. In addition to the city (tota) they seem to have had larger territorial division in the tribus (trifu, acc.) as we gather from Livy (xxxi. 2, "per Umbriam quam tribum Sapiniam vocant"; cf. xxxiii. 37) and from the Eugubine Tables ("trifor Tarsinates," vi. B. 54). Ancient authors describe the Umbrians as leading effeminate lives, and as closely resembling their Etruscan enemies in their habits (Theopompus, Fragm. 142; Pseudo-Scymnus, 366—368). It is almost certain that each race influenced and modified the other to a large extent. There is conclusive proof of strong Etruscan influences in Umbria. For instance, they undoubtedly borrowed their alphabet and the art of writing from the Etruscans. Their writing ran from right to left. The alphabet consisted of nineteen letters. It had no separate symbols for O, G, Q; the aspirates and X were wanting; on the other hand, it possessed forms for Z and V, and had likewise the Etruscan f (8). It also had a symbol peculiar to itself for expressing the sound of palatal k when followed by either e or i. The fact that it is only in towns on the side next Etruria, e.g. Tuder and Iguvium, that a coinage is found indicates that they borrowed the art of minting from that quarter. The Umbrians counted their day from noon to noon. But whether they borrowed this likewise from the Etruscans we do not know (Pliny ii. 77). In their measuring of land they employed the vorsus, a measure common to them and the Oscans (Frontinus, De Limit. p. 30), 3⅓ of which went to the Roman jugerum.

Sec Strabo bk. v.; T. E. Peet, The Stone and Bros Ages of Ilaly and Sicily (Oxford, 1909), pp. 492—510; B. V. Head, Historia numorum (Oxford, 1887); B. Nissen, Ilalische Landeskunde; B9cheler, Umbrica (1883); R. S. Conway, Italic Dialects. (M. O. B. C.)

2. The modern territorial division is situated in the middie of the peninsula, between Tuscany and the Ma.rches on the N. and E., and Rome and the Abruzzi on the S. and W., and com prising the one province of Perugia, with an area of 3748 sq. m.; pop. (r9oI), 675,352. Umbria and the two provincesofAncona and Pesaro and Urbino taken together form n area siightly more extensive than that of the sixth region of Augustus. The surface is mountainous, but affords good pasture, and there are nurnerous fertile valleys. Many treasures of art and architec ture are preserved, and Umbria is in this respect one of the most interesting regions of Italy (sec PERUGIA). !vlodern Umbria formed down to i86o a part of the States of the Church. Two main lines of railway run through the territory. That from Florence to Rome skirts the borders of the province on the west, running north and south, while the Rome-Ancona runs across the province from north-east to south-west. The cross communication is given by three branch lines. In the north a narrow gauge line from Arezzo to Fossato passes through Gubbio. Perugia, the capital of the province, stands on the line from Terontola to Foligno, while on the extreme south a line passing through Rieti and Aquila, and ultimately reaching Sulmona, starts from Terni on the Rome Ancona line. (T. As.)

As you can see, this is a lot of stuff we can use for building up the true history of this region. Cantalamessa 23:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

 * And to save anyone reinventing the wheel, the Britannica article, proofread against the print copy (and therefore free of the mindless scanning errors picked up by the other online versions) is already online, at the link on my site that I gave earlier, and with the links to the texts too; but here it is again. Bill 23:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Links, again
Just to note that the kept umbria.org is more commercial (association of industry owners) than the removed umbria2000.it (official tourism portal of the Region). --Cantalamessa 22:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

 * And the confusion and pious hypocrisy of the general policy is underscored these days — as rather often — by the large banner greeting every reader of these pages, asking for money and announcing that several hundred thousand dollars have been raised: Wikipedia is a commercial site. We all have to earn money to live; what is obnoxious and not a good link, is a site trying to sell us bathing suits by dangling some nominal info, say, on Spoleto (cribbed from other websites) — but both Umbria2000 ("noncommercial", by government) and Umbria.Org ("commercial", by a major cross-industry group in the area) are good. The aim ought to be to provide a few solid links to the reader who might want further investigation. Imagine running a bibliography this way, and eliminating all books written for money! Bill 22:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Dispute on "The people of Umbria" section
After one and a half month, our few-words user Caligula has reinserted the disputed section on Umbrian people. I am afraid that he will not discuss his/her ideas and will simply keep reverting back, if we delete the section (I have left in his/her discussion page a message -> no answer). Thus, for the moment, the "disputed" template is in my opinion the preferred way to signal this problem; if I understand his/her mind, he/she will not be satisfied and will try to delete the template, but this is more difficult to justify. --Cantalamessa 17:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I just went back and looked carefully, and found that though it was asserted (20 Nov 06) that "per Admin request" the section was to be reinstated, and that editing was OK, blanket deletion was not — in fact, this seems to be just that: a bald assertion. There is no evidence that anyone other than the editor who so stated requested anything at all. Blanket deletion of falsehood is not somehow prohibited. Nor is impersonating a mythical admin a proper tactic. The fact remains that the section is garbage. Bill 18:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I do completely agree. But he/she can be persistent. --Cantalamessa 23:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Link to paradoxplace
Ok, let's say that I want to get some money from my work on wikipedia: then, I can build up a website where I share my photos and opinions with the world, put some links to amazon or expedia, and advertise it on all the wiki pages. If this is absolutely legal, I don't think that we want this to happen. Because if I can do this, then even John, Bob and Alice may do that. And, of course, I am not speaking of Bill Thaier's website, which is a little treasure for us and for Umbria: it is evident that in that case there is much work, study, structure, and commitment behind. --Cantalamessa (talk) 00:22, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Less discussion, more article
Bill, you seem to generate emotion wherever you go. That is what you call charisma although I am sure it makes you cringe. Don't cringe. What I notice about this discussion is this. First, the initial criticisms of Bill's removal of links are standard stuff. The author just copied that section and placed it in the discussions of every single article of this type Bill worked on. I answered it once somewhere along the line. I'm not going to bother again. The link is out. No advertising please. Sorry, them's the rules. Second, someone copied over the entire EB 1911 article here. What was that for? Don't you know how to put such articles in Wikisource? They get accessed from WP by a small notice produced by a template. Frankly even WP admits in the help that EB1911 is only a stopgap measure. Most of the articles are far out of date, although there is good material in there no doubt. Don't waste your time on it. Either put it in Wikisource or link to it externally but don't inflict it on us. Now for the article. Format generally good. Content a mixture of good and bad. For one thing, it is still muchly redundant. Bill is right, once a thing is said in the upper article to the right, let's not have it over and over again. So, I'm cutting out redundant stuff. This will leave the article a bit sparse looking in places. That's your job, to fill it out. We don't need any padding here. If there is really no article, there is really no article. It is what it is. Trying to hide that is not going to help. I notice the history section starts out with some questionable material. What do we need this for? We have a WHOLE ARTICLE on Roman Umbria. I'm going through here with a pole axe. Sorry. If you don't like it, do it better. This isn't tea time here. This article is now on my list. Changes won't be dramatic at first but will be persistent. Ciao.Dave (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

The changeable river etc
"The river course is changeable and thus few towns have been built on it: the Tiber itself is not a major factor in the history and human geography of Umbria."

Is there any such thing as a river whose course is not changeable? Since when was changeability a reason for not building a town? This is not encyclopedic, it is shallow padding by the editor. As for the Tiber not being a factor, again, this is just a bunch offhand opinions thrown in by the editor to mark time. Let's have some real information, please.Dave (talk) 00:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The green heart, etc
", treasured as a beauty spot — is to a certain extent appropriate since the modern administrative region is the only one to have neither a coast nor a border with a foreign country, and, except for August and September, is famously green."

I removed this as unencyclopedic. If it called the green heart exaggerating the poet then it is called the green heart, but we don't particularly care whether you think it is justified. And as for your speculations, out they go - but is this seriously encyclopedic? Why do you think you have to explain why the green heart is the green heart? Do you think we have some kind of deficit in grasping figures of speech, the understanding of which is reserved to you and you alone?Dave (talk) 00:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Disputed section
Don't be bothered by this; no one is meant here. No one we know wrote it. This is from the EB 1911 and it is the worst bunch of bull (excuse me) I ever saw. Scarcely a sentence in there has not been disputed over the last 99 years. It was written in the youth of archaeology. Kossinna had not yet even formulated his law and here they all were practicing settlement archaeology, and with such gusto and utter conviction! They were so sure, you see. The student didn't stand much of a chance in those days. The teacher told you the way it was in exactly this language and whacked your little hands if you dared to question or else bounced you out of your fellowship. I used to meet some of those characters in my youth. I'd certainly rather not have. If you want to know why the Russian revolution happened take a good read. It is there, between the lines. But, what do we do now? This is totally unsuitable for a modern article on modern Umbria. I am really not sure of what do do. It will have to go, but what is to be put in its place? Most of the history will be covered in other articles, such as Roman Umbria. The archaeology should go under the archaeological articles. These are mainly on or are going to be on my list. As far as I'm concerned - and others may make other efforts - it will take some time to get this right. Meanwhile I have put this tag on here to alert the public. I will work on it.Dave (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Cleaned up sufficiently to warrant removal of "disputed tag" I think, though the history needs many more references. --Genie (talk) 10:58, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Thayer's website
Thayer has numerous websites. It can't be just him anymore, of course. No one can personally do thousands of pages. For our purposes, like any other website, it has to be in cite web format; no editorial descriptions instead of titles. Is that a gazeteer? I don't think so. It looks like a travellogue to me. I don't know whether this is encyclopedic or not. On the negative side is the personalized, conversational style, which is the hallmark of Thayer. Not only that but his icons often lead to commercialized sites. We aren't allowed either the style or the sites. On the positive side, it contains maps, photos. I notice that (at least for today anyway) on each page Bill himself does not get commercial; he is not selling us hotels, food, transportation and the like. Not yet anyway. So, for this sanity check I am going to keep the external link. It might not survive another, but another is another.Dave (talk) 09:45, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Thayer's website update
I just received a message from Thayer assuring me with some irritation that except for three pages he has personally created all those thousands of pages himself. Bill is not on WP anymore. He is far too creative to work under the limitations imposed by WP, I think. Thayer performs an invaluable service to public education and my having to be chided by him is a matter of some chagrin to me. I apologize, Bill. Thayers' sites, which are non-commercial, are a valuable source of information for WP. Many editors use them, including me. Please understand, Bill does these himself. He taught himself Latin and to a large extent Greek and knows a few other languages besides. In addition, he is affiliated with the U. of Chicago and works with other scholarly sites used as sources by WP editors. There Bill, I hope this notice will serve as public remedy for my misconception.Dave (talk) 14:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

map
The map here is frustrating. It does not show any internal features. Cities? Rivers? Mountains? Just a solid color is not very informative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 02:13, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

peaceful hills
It sounds comforting, but what "peaceful hills" mean?Kdammers (talk) 23:50, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 09:30, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Umbria


text:
Talk:William M. Bass

Untitled
Began the page. Will add more later. Suggestions, corrections welcome.
 * According to at least one book which of course I cannot call to mind at the moment, locals used to call his project the Bass Anthropological Research Facility, or BARF. This may be too trivial for inclusion, but there is, anyway, a lot of information about him and his work in numerous non-fiction mass market books about forensic science and criminal investigation. What's there is good, but could be expanded.71.63.119.49 01:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * He's got another book, creatively titled "Beyond the Body Farm," pubbed Sept 07. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.106.121 (talk) 17:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:William M. Bass


text:
Zilpah P. Grant Banister

Zilpah Polly Grant Banister (May 30, 1794 – December 3, 1874) was an American educator known primarily for founding Ipswich Female Seminary in Ipswich, Massachusetts, in 1828.

Life and career
Zilpah Grant began teaching at the age of fifteen. Eventually she saved up enough money to enter Byfield Academy and study under the charismatic clergyman Joseph Emerson, a leading proponent of women's education. At Byfield, she befriended Mary Lyon, who later taught with Grant for several years.

From 1824 to 1827 (or 1828), Grant served as principal of Adams Female Academy at Derry, New Hampshire. She then founded Ipswich Female Academy. Grant's curricula at Adams and Ipswich reflected Emerson's influence; they blended rigorous academic studies, moral oversight, and teacher training. Grant expected students to study for the joy of learning, rather than working for grades or prizes. Mary Lyon was Grant's assistant and, later, principal at Ipswich until she left to found Mount Holyoke Seminary in 1834.

Personal life
On September 7, 1841, Grant married William B. Banister and moved with him to Newburyport, Massachusetts.

She continued to be active to promote women's education, and published a pamphlet entitled Hints on Education in 1856.

title: Zilpah P. Grant Banister


text:
European vehicle registration plate

A vehicle registration plate, also known as a number plate (British English), license plate or licence plate (American English and Canadian English respectively), is a metal or plastic plate or plates attached to a motor vehicle or trailer for official identification purposes. The registration identifier is a numeric or alphanumeric code that uniquely identifies the vehicle within the issuing authority's database. In Europe most countries have adopted a format for registration plates that satisfies the requirements in the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, which states that cross-border vehicles must display a distinguishing code for the country of registration on the rear of the vehicle. This sign may be an oval sticker placed separately from the registration plate, or may be incorporated into the plate. When the distinguishing sign is incorporated into the registration plate, it must also appear on the front plate of the vehicle, and may be supplemented with the flag or emblem of the national state, or the emblem of the regional economic integration organisation to which the country belongs. An example of such format is the common EU format, with the EU flag above the country code issued in EU member states.

Format
The vast majority of European countries issue registration plates that are:
 * 520 by 110 mm
 * 520 by 120 mm

This is one of the basic standard sizes worldwide.

The others are:
 * 305 by 152 mm, commonly issued to import vehicles from North and Central America
 * 305 by 160 mm
 * 372 by 135 mm

Some European countries use registration plates in other formats:
 * 330 by 140 mm in Andorra
 * 440 by 120 mm in Finland
 * 260 by 110 mm in Monaco
 * 390 by 120 mm in San Marino
 * 300 by 80 mm in Switzerland and Liechtenstein (only front plates)
 * 360 by 110 mm in Italy (only front plates)
 * 390 by 130 mm and 345 by 130 mm in Åland

European Union
The common EU format of having a blue section on the extreme left with EU circle of stars and the country code was introduced by Council Regulation (EC) No 2411/98 of 3 November 1998 and entered into force on 11 November 1998. It was based on a model registration plate which three member states had already introduced: Ireland (1991), Portugal (1992) and Germany (1994). Luxembourg plates had displayed the EU flag on the left since 1988. Vehicles with registration plates in the EU format do not need to display the white oval international vehicle registration code while within the European Economic Area, or in countries party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (except if the plate is issued in Cyprus, Ireland, Malta and Spain).

 * The common design consists of a blue strip on the left side of the plate. This blue strip has the EU flag symbol (twelve yellow stars), along with the country code of the member state in which the vehicle is registered. All EU countries now issue plates in the common format, but the use of the EU flag on registration plates is optional for member states.
 * EU member states that require foreign vehicles to display a distinguishing sign of the country of origin are obliged by Article 3 of EC 2411/98 to accept the standard design as a distinguishing sign when displayed on a vehicle registered in another member state. The requirement to display a distinguishing sign stems from the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, and the regulation is referencing the recognition of distinguishing signs according to that convention.
 * EU format plates are either white or yellow, on a plate wider than it is tall. Yellow registration plates are used both front and rear in Luxembourg and the Netherlands. Denmark and Hungary use yellow plates for vehicles registered as commercial vehicles. Denmark implemented the EU format on a voluntary basis in 2009. Danish plates have a small holographic strip to the right of the blue EU strip. In Greece, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania and Sweden yellow plates are used for taxi vehicles. In Poland yellow plates are used for historic vehicles.
 * Belgium uses red characters and is the only country not to use the standard black-on-white or black-on-yellow combination; with the introduction of European-style plates in November 2010, a slightly darker shade of red was chosen (RAL 3003) to improve legibility.
 * Most European countries use metal plates, however France and Ireland use a mixture of flat plastic and metal plates. Flat plastic plates have earlier also been used in Sweden.

Other countries
Several non-EU European states have implemented formats similar to the EU format, with national flags or symbols in place of the circle of stars. Vehicles with such registration plates, issued in countries party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, do not need to display the white oval international vehicle registration code while within countries signatory to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.

 * Norway is an example of such a state, issuing registration plates with the Norwegian flag replacing the circle of stars and the country code N. In Norway, regular plates are white with black characters, however, cars with front seats only (used for carrying goods) have green plates with black characters. Norwegian registration plates are made of metal, but flat plastic has been used for earlier plates.
 * Iceland issues registration plates similar to Norway with the Icelandic flag and the country code IS, however on a white background.
 * Ukraine issues plates similar to the Norwegian ones, with the Ukrainian flag above the country code UA.
 * Moldovan registration plates have a wider than usual blue band with the Moldovan flag and the international country code MD.
 * Albanian registration plates have a double-headed eagle above the country code AL.
 * Bosnia and Herzegovina issues plates with a blue strip on the left side of the plate with the country code BIH, but without the EU stars or any other symbol. So does Turkey (TR) (which is in a customs union with the EU), Montenegro (MNE), North Macedonia (NMK) and Serbia (SRB).
 * Belarus issues registration plates with the national flag above the country code on the left side, but without the blue strip. Iceland issues plates similar to the Belarusian plates, with the Icelandic flag above the country code IS on the left side. Iceland, however, is not party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.
 * Andorra and Monaco use registration plates with their coat of arms above the respective country codes (AND and MC). San Marino issues similar plates but with the text "Repubblica di San Marino" underneath the coat of arms, instead of the country code RSM.
 * Of those states that joined in the 2004 enlargement of the European Union Malta already used EU format plates, while Latvia, Poland and Lithuania had used plates displaying the national flag before their accession, as did Bulgaria and Romania before their accession in 2007.
 * United Kingdom: yellow plates at the rear and white at the front and can be flat plastic or metal. Since 2021, the European symbol of a circle of stars must not be displayed with any of the following identifying letters (due to Brexit). Only registration plates with the distinguishing code "UK" (coloured black or blue) on its own, or together with the Union Flag (orientated in landscape) are valid in other countries party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic.
 * England, Scotland and Wales: owners here may choose to display plates with the national flag of England, Scotland or Wales, or the Union Flag and the code names "ENG", "Eng", "ENGLAND" or "England" for the English flag, "SCO", "Sco", "SCOTLAND" or "Scotland" for the Scottish flag, "CYM", "Cym", "CYMRU", "Cymru", "WALES" or "Wales" for the Welsh flag, "GB", "GREAT BRITAIN", "Great Britain", "UK", "UNITED KINGDOM" or "United Kingdom" for the Union Flag respectively. With such an arrangement, a "UK" sticker must also be affixed at the rear of the vehicle when driving abroad.
 * Northern Ireland: motorists with vehicles registered here are not permitted to display the letters NI alongside any flag; only the Union Flag alongside the "UK" code being optionally permitted.
 * Until 28 September 2021, the United Kingdom used "GB" as the identifying letters. This was changed after the British government notified the United Nations "that the United Kingdom is changing the distinguishing sign that it had previously selected for display in international traffic on vehicles registered in the United Kingdom, from 'GB' to 'UK.
 * Gibraltar uses plates similar to the EU format, but without a flag or symbol, only the code GBZ. As in the UK, yellow plates at the rear and white at the front.
 * The Crown dependencies of Guernsey, including Alderney and Jersey and the Isle of Man have registration plates that are different from those used in the UK. Guernsey plates sometimes contain the letters GBG below the Guernsey flag on the left side, Alderney plates may have GBA below an Alderney flag. Jersey registration plates may incorporate the coat of arms of Jersey in a white strip on the left, along with the country identifier GBJ, and since 2004 Manx plates may incorporate the Manx flag and the international country identification code GBM.

Common letter and digit systems between countries
Several countries have made efforts to avoid duplicating registration numbers used by other countries. This is not completely successful and there are occasional difficulties in connection with parking fines and automatic speed cameras.

 * Belgium (until 2010), Cyprus (from 90s), Finland, Georgia (until 2014), Hungary (1990-2022), Lithuania, Malta, Sweden (1974-2019), and Moldova (since 2014) each use combinations of first three letters and then three digits.
 * Bulgaria uses plate numbers in the form A[A]-0000-AA, i.e. one or two letters representing the region, then four digits, then two more letters. All letters used are intersection of Latin and Cyrillic alphabet, i.e. A, B, C, E, H, K, M, O, P, T, X and Y. The same format is in use in Ukraine since 90s, N.Macedonia and Spain until 2000 (but still valid, called "sistema provincial").
 * Greece uses a combination of three letters (before only two) that are homoglyphs of Latin letters, i.e. A, B, E, Z, H, I, K, M, N, O, P, T, Y, X in Greek alphabetic order) and four numbers, in the form of AAA-0000, while Spain uses a four number-three letter combination, in the form of 0000 BBB (vowels and some maybe confusing consonants, like Ñ and Q, are not used)
 * Denmark and Norway use two letters and five digits, while trailers use two letters and four digits. The plates look very similar, but Denmark has a red border around the plate. Use of the country code on the plate may mitigate this problem (Norway began using the system on 1 November 2006). Denmark has begun running out of combinations in this style and has now introduced combinations previously reserved for the Faroe Islands for EU style registration plates (which will use different letters from non-EU style plates).
 * The Netherlands (until 2008) and Portugal both use three groups of two characters (letters or numbers) in several sequences:,  ,  ,  , etc. However, Portuguese plates since 90s have a white background, while those of Netherlands (after 1 January 1978) have a yellow one, though both countries also use white letters on blue plates for classic cars. Furthermore, newer plates on Dutch vehicles only contain consonants, to avoid coincidental abbreviations or words. Also some sensitive letter combinations, such as SS or SD, are not used. The combination 'AA' is reserved for cars of the royal family. Dutch company registered bus, truck and/or minivan plates always start with a   or a  . Dutch taxis use blue registration plates. The number of new combinations ran out in 2008. New registered cars in the Netherlands now use the format of three letters-two digits-one letter.
 * Belgium used the sequence  between 1973 and 2008. When these combinations ran out in 2008, the inverse sequence   was adopted, with the first plate in the new series issued on 25 June 2008. With the introduction of the EU format registration plates on 15 November 2010, a seven-character combination   is used and the previous   was discontinued. However, the six-character plates will remain valid, and no date is set for their expiration. Since Belgian plates are linked to an owner rather than to a vehicle, these older plates are likely to remain in use for a considerable time. As a way to phase out the six-character plates, future vehicle subscriptions will only be possible on the seven-character plates. Private numbers, not following any notation, are also allowed.
 * Luxembourg standard registration plates use two letters and four digits . Plates with 5 digits and 4 digits  are also issued upon request. Older series with two letters and three digits, and one letter and 4 digits  are no longer issued but are still in use. Special plates for diplomats, the government, the grand-ducal family, military vehicles and temporary registrations exist and follow specific rules. Two letters and three digits  is also used in Northern Cyprus, and until 1973 it was used on the entire island of Cyprus.
 * Current registrations allocated in Romania and the United Kingdom (where the registration contains two digits) are both of the form . The Romanian rear plates are white whereas UK ones are yellow. There is also a difference in the spacing and the font. In 2010, Bucharest, the capital of Romania, adopted the form , three digits and three letters, because the number of cars had risen. In the United Kingdom,   was issued to cars registered from August 1984 to August 1985. Aside from this, some county codes can clash (MH, in Romania it stands for Mehedinți, and in the United Kingdom, it stands for Manchester).
 * Until 1973/74 the Swedish pattern was one letter representing the län (county) where the car was first registered, followed by four or five digits. However, in the more populated län, a second letter was introduced over time. For example, vehicles from southernmost county got the letter M + five digits, later also MA + five digits, MB + five digits etc. A problem was that the two northernmost counties had already been given two letters, the letter prefixes AC and BD, as the number of counties exceeded the number of usable letters. This system gave similar numbers as Denmark and Norway. The  system was introduced gradually from July 1973 until June 1974. All vehicles had to switch plates, the old were not permitted after this.
 * Slovakia uses  and Croatia uses ,  ,   or   (MM being the two-letter city code). Both countries use the national coat of arms after first two letters. Croatia uses only Croatian Latin letters without diacritics, except for city codes, like ČK for Čakovec.
 * Montenegro and Serbia, currently not members of the EU, used the following:,   or   (MM being two letter abbreviation of municipality), and having state flag (of former Yugoslavia, later Serbia and Montenegro) between municipality and numbers. Montenegro left that system in 2007, and introduced new format:   with Montenegrin coat of arms in circular shape between municipality and letter sequence. Blue strip with MNE country code is placed in the left side, with vacant place for EU stars, in case of joining the Union. Serbia also uses new system since 2011, with blue strip country code SRB:   and  , with Serbian coat of arms between municipality and number sequence. The first two letters on the Serbian plates represent the municipality code, written in Latin letters, and repeated in Cyrillic characters with small letters under the coat of arms. The following system is used for taxi vehicles:  or   and recently even  , where a TX combination is reserved for this purpose only (another taxi vehicles have private vehicle plates). Since 2017, Serbia stopped issuing plates with last two letters containing W, Q, Y, X (except TX), Č, Ć, Š, Ž, and Đ, however Serbian Latin letters with diacritics are still used to mark the municipality code, like ČA for Čačak or ŠA for Šabac.
 * Poland and the United Kingdom have both used . In Poland these were issued from 1976 to 2000, in the UK, they were issued from 1963 to 1983, with those issued prior to 1973 being the same colour as their Polish counterparts (white on black). While in United Kingdom black plates are still valid, in Poland, black registration plates will lose its validity after 2023.

Differing numbering systems
Individual European countries use differing numbering schemes and text fonts:
 * Most countries, including Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia and Switzerland (formerly also Sweden until 1974, Italy until 1994, Bosnia and Herzegovina until 1998, Lithuania and Spain until 2000, Estonia until 2004, Albania until 2011 and Slovakia until 2023, also former countries East Germany until 1990, Soviet Union until 1991, Czechoslovakia until 1993, Yugoslavia until 1998 and Serbia and Montenegro until 2011), have systems in which there is a direct link between a letter or letters appearing on the plate and the town or district where the plate was issued (e.g. "B" and "M" in Germany for Berlin and Munich, "BG" and "KG" in Serbia for Belgrade and Kragujevac and "AX" and "KY" in Greece for Achaea and Corfu). Some countries, including Austria, Germany, Slovenia, and Switzerland, even include a regional or municipal coat of arms on the plate, but Croatia, Montenegro and Serbia include a national coat of arms. In Ireland, all registration plates have the name of the county of registration in Irish in smaller letters on the top.
 * France (until 2009), and Turkey and Russia (since October 2013) use a system with an indirect number relation to the car's place of registration. Formerly in France, the last two characters on a plate comprised the departmental code of registration. This pattern was discontinued, but in response to popular outcry, France added a second colour bar, on the right edge of the plate, where the departmental code (no longer a part of the registration number) appears. The Turkish system has since (around early 2018) been overridden by most provinces giving out three letter-three number codes (99 XXX 000) in alphabetical order, regardless of province subdivisions.
 * The United Kingdom uses a system based on the region where the car was first registered and the date of registration, for example CA52 GJK, where the "C" stands for Wales (the name of that country in Welsh being Cymru), the "A" stands for Cardiff (the letters A-O assigned to the city), and the "52" means that the car was registered in the period September 2002 to February 2003.
 * Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Denmark, Iceland, Estonia (after 2004), Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania (after 2000), Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia (after 2023) and Sweden (after 1974) use plates that do not denote the location where the car is registered. Since 2000 Spain no longer uses province codes on plates but codes like 'B' for Barcelona or 'M' for Madrid can still be seen, for cars registered before that date. Italy, also, did not use the province codes on plates between 1994 and 1999.
 * Italy, since 1999, has added a blue strip on either side. On the right one are the two digits of the year when the plate was issued (e.g. "99", "05", "08") and below that there may be an optional two-letter code for the province, such as "MO" for the Province of Modena. Albania and France have adopted similar formats.
 * Portuguese registration plates since late 1998 have a yellow strip on the right side, with one number at the top and another at the bottom separated by a line, respectively the year and month of the vehicle's registration. This strip was discontinued for the new registration plates issued since March 2020.
 * Irish registration plates also contain the year in which the vehicle was registered. A car registered in 2008 would have the format 08-XX-XXXX. In 2013, this was updated to specify which half of the year the registration occurred. So from January to June, the registration plate would show (for 2018) 181-XX-XXXX, whereas from July to December, the plate instead shows 182-XX-XXXX.
 * Turkish registration plates consist of letters and digits in combinations of 99 AB 999, 99 A 9999, 99 ABC 99, 99 AB 9999 or 99 A 99999 where the first two digits show which province the vehicle is registered from. First two digits numbers go from 01 to 81 (as there are 81 provinces in Turkey) and each one is assigned to a province with alphabetical order e.g. 01 is the code of the province Adana or 34 is the code of the province Istanbul. All 81 provinces used to use "01 AB 123" style plates initially until all combinations ran out, then the province starts to use 01 A 1234 then 01 ABC 12 etc. As a result, three largest provinces i.e. Istanbul, Ankara and İzmir are currently issuing 99 ABC 999 style plates. 99 A 99999 series are not regular since they are only used in provinces where commercial vehicles are abundant e.g. Bursa to distinguish these vehicles there from passenger cars. Letters "I" and "O" are only used in the middle 01 ABC 12 series e.g. 34 YOC 34 or 06 TIL 56 to avoid confusion with numerals "1" and "0" respectively. As an exception to this rule, there is a "HO" series that is only granted to privately operated city buses (halk otobüsleri in Turkish). Also some letters combinations like "PKK" are not issued due to their referring to political organisations or words likely to cause offence.

Angle and height
The plate must be at +/-5° to the longitudinal plane of the vehicle. Lower edge must be higher than 0.3m and upper edge lower than 1.2m.

Cross-border traffic
According to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, vehicles in cross-border traffic are obliged to display a distinguishing sign of the country of registration on the rear of the vehicle. This sign may either be placed separately from the registration plate or, after the convention was amended in 2006, may be incorporated into the vehicle registration plate. One of the main benefits of the convention for motorists is the obligation on signatory countries to recognise the legality of vehicles from other signatory countries. The following requirements must be met when driving outside the country of registration:
 * The physical requirements for the separate sign are defined in Annex 3 of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, which states that the letters shall be in black on a white background having the shape of an ellipse with the major axis horizontal. The distinguishing sign should not be affixed in such a way that it could be confused with the registration number or impair its legibility.
 * When the distinguishing sign is incorporated into the registration plate, it must also appear on the front registration plate of the vehicle, and may be supplemented with the flag or emblem of the national state, or the emblem of the regional economic integration organisation to which the country belongs. The distinguishing sign should be displayed on the far left or far right on the registration plate. When a symbol/flag/emblem is also displayed, the distinguishing sign shall obligatory be placed on the far left on the plate. The distinguishing sign shall be positioned so to be easy identifiable and so that it cannot be confused with the registration number or impair its legibility. The distinguishing sign shall therefore be at least a different colour from the registration number, or have a different background colour to that reserved for the registration number, or be clearly separated from the registration number, preferably with a line.

The common EU format of having a blue section on the extreme left with EU circle of stars and the country code was introduced by Council Regulation (EC) No 2411/98 of 3 November 1998 and entered into force on 11 November 1998. According to Article 3 of the regulation shall member states that require vehicles registered in another member state to display a distinguishing registration sign also recognise distinguishing signs issued in accordance with the regulation (the common EU format). After the amendment of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic in 2006, registration plates issued in the common EU format also satisfies the requirements of the named convention and hence is also valid in all countries party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (if the issuing country is party to the convention).

Mopeds are exempt, and do not need to wear a distinguishing sign. If their country does not require a license plate, then the vehicle can cross borders without a license plate as well. Example: Swedish moped class II or the German insurance plate, which isn't an official license plate and only shows that insurance has been paid.

After Brexit the European Commission confirmed that British cars with registration plates with the distinguishing sign incorporated do not need a separate sign when driving in EU countries party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. If the registration plate does not include the distinguishing sign, or if the vehicle is driven in an EU country not party to the Vienna Convention, a separate sign has to be displayed at the rear of the vehicle. All EU countries except Cyprus, Ireland, Malta and Spain are party to the convention. Some European countries are not party to the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Cyprus, Ireland, Malta and Spain are examples of non-signatory countries. Those who have not ratified the convention may be parties to the older 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic, which is the case of the aforementioned countries. According to the Geneva convention, a distinguishing sign of the country of registration must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. This sign must be placed separately from the registration plate and may not be incorporated into the vehicle registration plate. The letters shall be in black on a white background having the shape of an ellipse with the major axis horizontal.

List
Vehicle registration plates of each country are described in the following table:

Motorcycle plates are used for motorcycles and vehicles where mounting space is an issue, such as taxis which display their, and vehicles imported from countries where the mounting space was not originally designed to take European-sized plates (e.g. USA).

Moped plates are used for 2-wheeled moped and, in the European Union and EER countries for 4-wheeled mopeds (light quadricycle)

Countries

 * Notes

Dependent territories

 * Notes

Timeline
Dependencies and disputed territories

title: European vehicle registration plate


text: Talk:Cuttie

title: Talk:Cuttie


text:
User talk:Nicksmith2007

Re: Mukasey
Mukasey has not yet been nominated by President Bush to be AG. Please stop changing the article to say so. At this point it is just rumors. — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 22:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

You are WRONG. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/politics/5139487.html

No, you are wrong. That is a rumor. "According to a source" wait until there is an official announcement. Last week Olson was supposed to be nominated. — Steven Andrew Miller (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

No, you are wrong. It's NOW been cited by CNN and Washington Post. Look it up yourself.

Warning
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. WaltonOne 16:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: You may or may not be aware of the three-revert rule, as you're not a regular user. However, you were reported to the administrators' noticeboard for edit-warring, as you have already made more than 3 reverts in 24 hours. Please do not keep reverting other people's edits, else you may be blocked. WaltonOne 16:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

March 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, adding content without citing a reliable source is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you are familiar with Citing sources, please take this opportunity to add references to the article. Falcon8765 (talk) 03:27, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of TJ Lubinsky

The article TJ Lubinsky has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Unref, promotional BLP that would need TNT'ing even if notable. I couldn't find sources though to show he meets WP:N."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Boleyn (talk) 07:22, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Nicksmith2007


text:
Dracula Has Risen from the Grave

Dracula Has Risen from the Grave is a 1968 British supernatural horror film directed by Freddie Francis and produced by Hammer Film Productions. It is the fourth entry in Hammer's Dracula series, and the third to feature Christopher Lee as Count Dracula, the titular vampire. The film stars Rupert Davies as a clergyman who exorcises Dracula's castle, and in doing so, unwittingly resurrects the Count back from the dead.

Dracula Has Risen from the Grave also stars Veronica Carlson, Barry Andrews, Barbara Ewing, Ewan Hooper, and Michael Ripper. It was followed by Taste the Blood of Dracula in 1970.

Plot
In 1905, in an East European village, a young altar boy discovers the corpse of a young woman crammed inside a church bell, another victim of Count Dracula. One year later, following the events of the previous film, Dracula has been destroyed. Monsignor Ernst Mueller comes to the village on a routine visit only to find the altar boy is now a frightened mute and the priest has lost his faith. The villagers refuse to attend Mass at the church because the shadow of Dracula's castle touches it. To bring to an end the villagers' fears, Mueller climbs to the castle to exorcise it.

The terrified priest follows only partway up the mountain, and Mueller continues alone. As he exorcises the castle, attaching a large metal cross to its gate, a thunderstorm occurs. The fleeing priest stumbles and is knocked unconscious when his head strikes a rock. The blood from the head wound trickles into a frozen stream through a crack in the ice and onto the lips of Dracula, reviving him. Mueller returns to the village, reassures the villagers, and returns to his home city of Keinenberg, where he lives with his widowed sister-in-law, Anna.

Unknown to Mueller, Dracula takes control of the priest. Furious that his castle is now barred to him, Dracula forces the enslaved priest to reveal the name of the exorcist. The priest desecrates a coffin to provide a sleeping place for Dracula and leads him to Keinenberg, where the Count determines to take his revenge on Mueller's beautiful niece, Maria. Dracula enslaves a tavern girl named Zena. Zena almost succeeds in bringing Maria under Dracula's power, but Maria's boyfriend Paul, who lives and works in the bakery beneath the tavern, rescues her. Dracula kills Zena and orders the priest to destroy her corpse before she turns into a vampire, so the priest burns her body in the bakery ovens. The priest then helps Dracula locate Maria. Dracula climbs over the rooftops of nearby buildings, enters Maria's room, and bites her.

Mueller enters Maria's room just before Dracula has bitten the girl again and pursues a fleeing figure across the rooftops. He is knocked down by the priest. Mueller makes his way back home, where his sister-in-law cares for him. He summons Paul, knowing that he will help protect Maria because of his love for her. Mueller passes on a book, which contains the rites of protection against vampires and ways to defeat them, before he succumbs to his wounds. Paul enlists the priest, not knowing he is under Dracula's spell. Unable to break free from Dracula's influence, the priest attacks Paul as they watch over Maria, who is falling under Dracula's spell. Paul defeats the priest and forces him to lead the way to Dracula's lair. They try to stake Dracula through the heart, but the faithless priest and the atheist Paul are not able to say the required prayer, so Dracula rises and removes the stake himself. He kidnaps Maria and flees to the castle, pursued by Paul and the priest.

At the castle, Dracula orders Maria to remove the cross from the door. She throws it over the parapet into the ravine below, where it lands upright, wedged between the rocks. Paul fights Dracula on the parapet and throws him over the side, and he is impaled on the cross. The priest, freed from the vampire's influence, recites the Lord's Prayer in Latin before collapsing and Dracula perishes, dissolving into dust. Reunited with Maria and having apparently regained his Christian faith, Paul crosses himself while viewing Dracula's remains.

Cast

 * Christopher Lee as Count Dracula
 * Veronica Carlson as Maria Mueller
 * Barry Andrews as Paul
 * Rupert Davies as Monsignor Ernst Mueller
 * Ewan Hooper as Priest
 * Barbara Ewing as Zena
 * Marion Mathie as Anna Mueller
 * Michael Ripper as Max
 * John D. Collins as Student
 * George A. Cooper as Landlord
 * Chris Cunningham as Farmer
 * Norman Bacon as Altar boy

Production
This Hammer Dracula production was shot at Pinewood Studios situated in Iver Heath, Buckinghamshire. Missing are the approach road, coach path and moat seen in front of Castle Dracula in Dracula (1958) and Dracula: Prince of Darkness (1966). Those films were made at Bray Studios.

The film was photographed by Arthur Grant using colored filters belonging to director Freddie Francis, also a cameraman, who used them when photographing The Innocents (1961). Whenever Dracula (or his castle) is in a scene, the frame edges are tinged crimson, amber and yellow. Initially Terence Fisher was to direct the film, but dropped out after breaking his leg in an automobile accident; Freddie Francis stepped in.

Censorship
In Australia, the film was the first Hammer Dracula to be passed by the censors; the previous films Dracula and Dracula: Prince of Darkness were banned. The film was slightly censored and ran for a three-week season at Sydney's Capitol theater in January 1970.

Critical reception
Howard Thompson of The New York Times wrote, "Dracula Has Risen From The Grave. Yes, again. And judging by this junky British film in color—asplatter with catchup or paint or whatever, to simulate the Count's favorite color—he can descend again." Variety called the film "a tired episode," adding, "The story's slight, the horror and the bloodcurdling essential to these pix is minimal and even Dracula himself appears bored at being resurrected yet again." The Monthly Film Bulletin of the UK was somewhat more positive, writing that the film was "rather short on shock sequences" but had "a nice gory opening" and "a suitably horrific finale." Audiences in both Britain and the U.S. applauded the movie, which became Hammer's highest-grossing film.

The Hammer Story: The Authorised History of Hammer Films called the film "a minor triumph of style over content", writing that the film "succeeds by virtue of Francis' adventurous direction". On Rotten Tomatoes the film has an approval rating of 80% based on reviews from 15 critics.

Home media
On 6 November 2007, the film was released as part of a DVD four-pack along with Dracula, Taste the Blood of Dracula, and Dracula A.D. 1972.

On 6 October 2015, the film was released on Blu-ray as part of a Hammer collection pack with The Mummy, Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed, and Taste the Blood of Dracula. It was also released on Blu-ray separately.

title: Dracula Has Risen from the Grave


text:
Robert Smirke

Robert Smirke may refer to:

 * Robert Smirke (painter) (1753–1845), English painter
 * Robert Smirke (architect) (1780–1867), his son, English architect

title: Robert Smirke


text:
Chattahoochee Plantation, Georgia

Chattahoochee Plantation is an affluent unincorporated community near East Cobb, Georgia, in Cobb County, Georgia, United States.

History
The area was previously incorporated as a city in 1961 in hopes of building a luxury housing development around a golf club. In 1968, state legislators extended the city's boundaries to cover the entire length of Cobb County as a way to prevent the City of Atlanta from expanding into Cobb County. In 1989, an attempt was made by nearby Sandy Springs, in Fulton County, to have their area annexed by Chattahoochee Plantation in order to function as an independent city from Atlanta. This, like other attempts to gain city status, was defeated when Tom Murphy, speaker of the house in the Georgia General Assembly, blocked the measure. Chattahoochee Plantation never organized a city government, and its city charter was revoked in 1995. The area formally considered part of Chattahoochee Plantation is noted by markers along its city limits.

Today, the median real estate price in Chattahoochee Plantation is one of the highest in the state of Georgia. The area includes several gated communities, upscale riverfront homes along Sope Creek and the Chattahoochee River, and private golf courses, including the Atlanta Country Club. Residents of Chattahoochee Plantation have a Marietta address, although they are outside Marietta city limits.

title: Chattahoochee Plantation, Georgia


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Drowning Fish

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. Golbez 21:58, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Drowning Fish and Espen Dahl Hjort
Teenage band vanity. The one article so far which has been written about the individual members (Espen Dahl Hjort) says he's 15. Band formed in spring of 2005. RickK 07:38, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - non-notable, speedify if possible. --FCYTravis 07:40, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete -- non-notable. - Longhair | Talk 08:01, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually he turned 16 today. btw.
 * Comment - Happy birthday to Mr. Hjort :) --FCYTravis 10:53, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you.

 * Comment - fine, delete us, but I'll be back when I deserve my own wikipedia article :)
 * Comment: Hey, thanks for not taking it personally. We hope to see you again when you meet our criteria. --Scimitar 14:44, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: Bandity: Do come back when you've gotten some notability.  Being a professional musician is a very tough gig.  Geogre 12:35, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * comment: I have no problem understanding you guyz.. Sorry to waste your time on little things like this. See ya
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
User talk:JShultz

Peer Review
I put up my first page "Pathatrix". I was wondering if you could do a peer review on it for me thanks. Smann2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smann2 (talk • contribs) 15:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

what's up?

Talk:Randal McCloy
haha, I inadvertantly posted on the board right after asbestos... I've written him with permission to delete mine if he feels like it though, as mine's redundant and not from an official POV. Anyway, I appreciate what you've done for the article. I tried to be impartial, so you'll have to forgive me if I've offended. Either way, have a good day.

--El benito 16:28, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Peer review of bacteria
Hi there. I'd value your input on this article. Thank you. TimVickers 03:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * This article is now a Featured Article candidate, the nomination page is (here). Thank you. TimVickers 04:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

take your own advice
wow, you sure do "talk", "talk:", "Talk:" alot. how about trying to add something to articles, take your own advice. i laugh in your face: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JShultz Holon67 (talk) 03:35, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Holon67, please take the tinfoil hat off of your tiny cranium and place directly up your ass. thank you

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Articles for deletion nomination of Child Awareness Month
I have nominated Child Awareness Month, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/Child Awareness Month. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Skier Dude ( talk ) 00:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:JShultz


text:
Veronica Carlson

Veronica Carlson (born Veronica Mary Glazier; 18 September 1944 – 27 February 2022) was a British actress and model who was known for her roles in Hammer horror films. In 2019, she was inducted into the Rondo Hatton Classic Horror Awards' Monster Kid Hall of Fame.

Life and career
Carlson was born in Emley, West Riding of Yorkshire, England, as Veronica Mary Glazier, the daughter of Edith (Allatt), a housemaid, and William Glazier, an RAF officer. Carlson spent most of her childhood in West Germany where her father was stationed. She attended the Thetford Girls' School, Lady Verney High School, West Wycombe and later the High Wycombe College of Art and Technology, where she studied art. It was here that she caught the acting bug, and she participated in college reviews and operettas.

In her mid-twenties, Carlson played a few minor parts in films and television programmes. She was still at college when she auditioned for the Morecambe and Wise film, The Magnificent Two. She had heard that they needed someone who knew judo, and as she had some basic moves she tried out. Most of the other girls were wearing bikinis, although there was one other person in judo garb. Carlson threw her over her shoulder, and she was given the job.

James Carreras, the head of Hammer Films, saw one of her photographs in a newspaper and offered her a role opposite Christopher Lee in Dracula Has Risen from the Grave (1968). She starred in two further Hammer Horror films, Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed (1969) and The Horror of Frankenstein (1970). She starred alongside Peter Cushing, who treated her with a lot of kindness and respect. She said that she found working in Hammer Horror like being part of a big warm family.

She also appeared in the Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) episode "The Ghost Who Saved the Bank at Monte Carlo" in 1969, an episode of The Saint ("The Man who Gambled with Life"(3rd last ep.)) with Roger Moore, and an episode of Department S ("The Double Death of Charlie Crippen").

Carlson was one of the four main characters in the TV thriller series Spyder's Web (1972), along with Anthony Ainley, Roger Lloyd-Pack, and Patricia Cutts. She had a small role in a 1975 episode of Public Eye playing Ingrid, the German girlfriend of Knaggs, a wanted bankrobber/gangster, played by Ray Lonnen.

Carlson went into semi-retirement after marrying and moving to the United States. Giving up on acting was not her intention, but she found that there was an increasing amount of nudity in the industry, which was something she was not prepared to do due to her strict upbringing. In later life she lived in South Carolina, with her husband and three children, where she worked as a professional painter. She emerged from a 24 year retirement to star in the 2019 film House of the Gorgon, alongside fellow Hammer film stars Caroline Munro, Martine Beswick, and Christopher Neame. She also enjoyed meeting fans at film conventions in later years.

Carlson died on 27 February 2022 at her home in Bluffton, South Carolina, aged 77.

title: Veronica Carlson