text:
Talk:Supreme Court of Israel

Old/misplaced comments
Strange the article does not properly mention the clear presence of masonic symbolism; should be added. I am not referring to the pyramid alone, but also the inverted cross on the parking, the stairs, the fertility symbols, etc. Admitted, the architect did great work, but the massive presence of occult symbolism is frightening. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.218.86.5 (talk) 09:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I do not know them, but maybe someone should add the names of the current justices? Batmanand 09:12, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Anyone notice the Pyramid and the Eye on top of it?

Yeah, I just read a page that shows all these Illuminati and free Mason symbols on it. 63.226.180.162 20:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

 * HAHAHA.... Show me a source for that which is not from some wacko conspiracy theorist website!WacoJacko (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

List of presidents?
I think there should be a list of presidents of the supreme court included in the article. I will try to acquire one and add it, but if I cannot, it would be great for someone to add this information. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:06, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

There needs to be a section explaining the current crisis vis-a-vis the Justice Minister & the Supreme Court

Photo Link
These links: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297062.shtml and http://www.abidemiracles.com/555701.htm, are full of silly consporatorial content, surely there's better photo galleries available. Don't know what the official policy is but with such ridiculous nonsense and not particularly good photos they should probably be taken out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShaiOne (talk • contribs) 00:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

 * the pictures speak for themselves. "silly consporatorial content" is POV, but the pictures speak for themselves. "but with such ridiculous nonsense and not particularly good photos they should probably be taken out" smacks of political POV on the part of ShaiOne 84.68.47.125 --- (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but the tall blue glass pyramid shown on the picture of the Supreme Court building is not a "conspiracy" but a meaningful piece of architecture which was designed by the Rothschild's architects.

I added a simple comment pointing to this CLEAR detail on the picture and it was immediately removed. Why ?

If I remember right the picture used to be at the top right of the page, was moved out of immediate view, why ?

It looks like obvious disinformation to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 911allo (talk • contribs) 13:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unsourced editorial opinion removed. Viriditas (talk) 20:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

 * All the sources for this so called "zionist conspiracy" come form conspiracy theorist websites, ie they are not valid sources.WacoJacko (talk) 04:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

These pictures are not Zionist conspiracies but architectural details. The visible existing building does exist. You are obviously whilling to hide real information. Shanon's theorem defines the quantity of information carried by something as inversely proportional to it's probability of occurrence. The unexpected carries information.

Finding an all-seeing eyed pyramid and so many Freemason symbols on a Supreme Court building is indeed very informative. Especially when one learns that the Rothschild's paid for the building.

The picture was previously at the top right of the Supreme Court page with less resolution and the pyramid was not easy to see. A better picture was added but is not immediately visible, why ?

Your refusal to let me add a simple note stating the mere existence of the pyramid is like saying the earth is flat.

We are not talking about conspiracy but physical reality since you accepted this picture as verified. You can't assume this reality?

So please unrevert my note or tell me how I can complain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 911allo (talk • contribs) 12:28, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you see the pyramid with a circle or do you deny it?
Wikipedia accepted the picture of the Supreme Court of Israel presumably as being verified before posting it.

Do you see the pyramid with a circle at the top left corner of the same picture ?

Viriditas refuses to add this note : "Note the blue pyramid with a circle at the top left corner in the above image."

Reason : Viriditas says it is unverifiable (!).

Mr Viriditas: do you see a pyramid with a circle on Wikipedia's picture of the Supreme Court building of Israel ?

Under wikipedia's Zero-Revert Rule removing my note is against Wikipedia's philosophy. This is not a conspiracy theory but the picture of a building that was verified before.

 * There is nothing essentially wrong with the phrase "Note the blue pyramid with a circle at the top left corner in the above image." If you were writing about pyramids in architecture, or simply describing the design of the building one would not need a reliable source simply to describe what is visible. The problem is that you seem to think this motif has some specific significance. I'm sure there are guide books and other sources explaining the meaning or function of this motif. You seem to think that it refers to the "all-seeing eye". Maybe it does, but there's nothing sinister or masonic about that. It dates back to emblem books. Look for literature on the architecture. Paul B (talk) 15:10, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

 * OK, I've added stuff from some architecture critics. My guess is that the pyramid is intended to refer to the all-seeing eye, which would be entirely appropriate for a Supreme Court building, since the symbol refers to God himself as the final judge and overseer of his jurisdiction, the world. Similar motifs have existed in other court buildings. However, in the absence of any sources stating that this was the intended meaning of the motif, I've left descriptions in the words of the critics. Paul B (talk) 16:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Funny though you add noise to the text below the picture just as I start to complain about Zionist control of Wikipedia. There is no Obelisk ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.130.46.159 (talk) 21:07, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

 * What on earth does the presence of an "obelisk" have to do with "Zionist control of Wikipedia"? There are obilisks all over the place. I came here because you left a message at the Reliable Sources noticeboard. The "noise" is reliably sourced information about architecture, one of which explicitly mentions the pyramid (or "obelisk" as it has apprently now become). Why would these secret masonic conspirators build giant 'masonic' symbols visible to everyone I wonder? Paul B (talk) 06:39, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry I can't resist... Paul B Because sadism and ritualistic taunting of course! Hesperian Nguyen (talk) 19:45, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Another issue that needs discussion
I don't see anything here on the issue of judicial activism, or Justice Minister Friedmann's attempts to curb the power of the Supreme Court (the two are closely related, and both are hot topics in arguments about the Supreme Court, with those who agree with the Court's politics generally supporting activism and opposing Friedmann's reforms, and those who oppose the court's politics generally opposing judicial activism and supporting the reforms.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.98.193.182 (talk) 13:56, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Building: Symbols of freemasonry
This building is full of symbols, we could insert them and their meaning in the article. Notable would be:
 * The pyramide with an All-seeing eye (exterior)
 * The christian cross for walking purposes (exterior, small round courtyard)
 * The obelisk with masonry inscription (exterior)
 * The Ley line (interior)
 * etc.

Some people connect it to some sort of Symbolism... Dorothy de Rothschild paid for planning, material and construction, and as you might know, the Rothschild family is alleged to be connected to Freemasonry and other fraternal organizations as in the view of some conspiracy theorists. Now, this mason symbols are there in and at the building, and it's not just a regular building. It's a building of the Government of Israel, and the building is a Supreme court building. This is what makes it all interesting. ...

Further Reading:
 * Tour (official) http://elyon1.court.gov.il/eng/siyur/index.html
 * http://cantontruth.blogspot.com/2008/06/satanic-israel-supreme-court-exposed.html
 * http://www.abidemiracles.com/555701.htm

Videos:
 * http://cantontruth.blogspot.com/2008/06/satanic-israel-supreme-court-exposed.html (I suggest to mute audio) which mentions Dorothy de Rothschild did not want to be named anywhere on the building but there's sign with her name...
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClWTbLFIHs&feature=related

--77.4.42.91 (talk) 13:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Except for the official tour site which has no mention of Freemasonry or any of the symbols you mention, none of your sources are reliable. Specifically they are self-published, extremist and fringe.  Rami R  16:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

 * These links might be bad but contain some information. Some are not very objective. I did not say these are sources. It will be hard to find sources which are objective. We have to take into consideration:

 * Israeli government is not loved by all, in fact it faces terrorism because of Zionism, Palestine and whatnot.

 * Freemasonry and the conspiracy related issues are often/always represented in their own way. I guess since nobody outside the scene really takes attention, there are not too much unbiased information out there. That means, the media about freemasonry (outside view) is much lesser than the media by Freemasons and supporters. Compare that with a new religion XYZ, publishing media and preaching and stuff. Since they are not racist, criminal or anything anything else odd (just a tiny private religion), nobody really cares. Now, how would be the ratio of unbiased and biased literature.

 * I really don't care what is all means and why it is there (interpretations about the courtyard with the Christian Cross to be trampled on, why not another religious symbol, following a masonic connection of Mrs. Rothschild, and so forth). People with a broader background/knowledge who can provide proven information from "good" media are welcome to add information about it. A paragraph would be fine...

 * My only suggestion was and is to put notable symbolic parts of the building in the article. E.g., there are not much court buildings in the world with a pyramid with an all-seeing eye in the world, you know.

 * My other concern was to put information about a possible connection from Mrs. Rothschild with Freemasonry. That needs to be discussed broadly prior to launch such information in the article (along with a source). It's simply a fact that alle those symbols are Masonic symbols. The obelisk has even a Square and Compasses in the center of the obelisk according to the Youtube video (although it is bogous to call it satanic). --77.4.42.91 (talk) 18:36, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

 * According to policy, all information in the articles must be attributed reliable sources. If you wish to add information about Freemasonry symbolism in the court, you must provide reliable sources that supports this information. The all-seeing-eye that supposedly exists in the court may just be a circular window. Or not. I don't know. It's really not relevant if I or you "know" it to be true. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.
 * However, even if you do find reliable sources regarding Rothschild and Freemasonry, it would be off topic for this article. I remind you that this article is about the supreme court of Israel (the institute, not just the building), not Rothschild or Freemasonry.  Rami R  19:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

 * All this has been gone over in the past, which is why the architecture section was added. The article currently provides information on the official explanation for the pyramid, which is in the brochure produced by the court. That doesn't exclude the All Seeing Eye as a possible symbol, but we have no reliable source asserting that it's part of the meaning. Even if it is, it's a symbol that predates Freemasonry, and in any case only represents the omnipresence of God, which is hardly surprising in a Jewish building! As for the "christian cross", it doesn't exist. It's just a crossing of walkways and stairways. Thousands of buildings have similar crossings of walkways. Every crossroads in the world is a 'cross for walking over'. The obelisk is a reference to Egypt, which has a well known role in Jewish history. As far as I'm aware, there are no specifically 'masonic' symbols on it. A "ley line" exists purely the imagination of anyone who wants to invent one. Paul B (talk) 23:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * p.s. "The obelisk has even a Square and Compasses in the center of the obelisk according to the Youtube video". No, that's not true. This has nothing to do with the Supreme Court building at all. The video shows the entrance to the Solomon's Pillars Masonic Lodge No. 59, which isn't even in Jerusalem. In other words it shows that a Masonic lodge has a display of Masonic symbols. That's not exactly unexpected! And it has nothing to do with the Court. Paul B (talk) 14:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Composition of court
The article should say how the demography of Israel is represented in the membership of the court (how many Ashkenazim, Sephardim, Arabs etc). --Redaktor (talk) 12:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
 * A good idea. Including the Mishpat Ivri seat. On the other hand, all of this is determined by unofficial rules, so would need good sourcing. Debresser (talk) 17:44, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Criticism of Court
My factual reference to the criticism of the Supreme Court of Israel was removed by User:TimothyBlue, reason given "Weight". My sentence was factual and quoted reliable source: "According to the B'Tselem, when it comes to the rights of Palestinian people under Israel's military control, the Supreme Court of Israel "neither holds effective judicial review nor keeps the security forces in check" and therefore sanctions human rights violations and the occupation itself." My concern is two-fold: this could be revision by Israeli IDF wikipedia farms who remove any reference that is critical of Israel, and/or this was removed in bad faith. The information quoted is from a reliable source, it's neutral, and verifiable. I am asking it to be reinstated. My concern with getting consensus is, how do you gain consensus when you have wiki farms in Israel connected to Israeli government with hundreds of people using different computers and removing any criticism of Israel? This information should not have been removed. As I mentioned above, it's from a reliable source, it's verifiable, and it's objective reality. I am asking for the above information to be re-inserted into the WIkipedia article (if you wish to re-word it, go ahead, but for God sake, don't remove it, it's factual information). 24.87.14.45 (talk) 22:20, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

 * There are also NPOV and sourcing issues. This has been reverted per WP:ONUS, "The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content." The personal attacks above are unacceptable.  // Timothy :: talk  22:43, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

 * It makes no sense to allow biased editors to remove factual references that are critical of Israel and then demand that the onus is on original user to "achieve consensus" on including factual content that some other user deems "disputed". How can factual content be disputed? 2+2 = 4, how can you dispute this fact and then place onus on me to achieve consensus with people who may or may not be biased in their "disputing" of facts?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.14.45 (talk) 23:18, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Supreme Court of Israel


text:
Ten Days of Repentance

In Judaism, the Ten Days of Repentance (, ʿǍseret yəmēy təšūvā) are the first ten days of the Hebrew month of Tishrei, beginning with the Jewish New Year Rosh Hashanah and ending with the conclusion of Yom Kippur. These days usually fall in September and/or early October.

Due to the proximity to Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, in this period Jews focus on repenting for their sins and seeking out closeness with God.

Name
The term "Ten Days of Repentance" appears in such early sources as the Jerusalem Talmud, the Pesikta Rabbati, and the writings of the Geonim, and has been the predominant title since the period of the Rishonim. The Babylonian Talmud uses a different expression - "the ten days between Rosh HaShanah and Yom HaKippurim" - while among Geonim we also find "the ten days from the beginning of Tishrei to Yom HaKippurim," "the first ten days of the month of Tishrei," and "(the time) between Rosh HaShanah and Yom HaKippurim."

Significance
During this time it is considered appropriate for Jews to practice repentance (Hebrew: teshuvah, literally: "returning"), meaning examining one's ways, engaging in repentance and improving one's ways in anticipation of Yom Kippur. This repentance may be expressed as early morning penitentiary prayers (known as selichot), giving of charity, acts of kindness, self-reflection, or extra zehirut (spiritual vigilance).

The period is described as a special one in the Talmud:
 * "Seek Hashem when He is to be found" - these are the days between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.

Maimonides provides a fuller description:
 * Despite the fact that "Teshuvah" and crying out to HaShem are always timely, during the Ten Days between Rosh HaShanah and Yom HaKippurim they are exceedingly appropriate, and are accepted immediately, as it says, "Seek Hashem when He is to be found".

 * Every person should view himself all year as if he were half innocent and half guilty. And that is the way he should look at the world as well, as if it were half innocent and half guilty. If he sinned one sin, he placed himself and the whole world on the side of guilt... if he performed one mitzvah, he placed himself and the whole world on the side of merit... Therefore, the whole House of Israel are accustomed to give more tzedakah, and to do more good deeds, and to engage in mitzvot, from Rosh HaShanah through Yom Kippur more than the rest of the year. And they have all adopted the custom of rising at night during this ten-day period and praying in the synagogues prayers of supplication and entreaties until daylight.

According to Nahmanides, "on Rosh Hashana He [God] sits on the throne as a true judge, and afterwards in the Ten Days of Repentance He pardons the crime of His servants".

The days
The first two days of the Ten Days of Repentance are Rosh Hashanah.

The third day is Fast of Gedalia (except when Rosh Hashanah occurs on Thursday and Friday, in which case the Fast of Gedalia is postponed until Sunday).

Of the seven days between Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, one is always Shabbat. This Shabbat is known as Shabbat Shuvah ("Sabbath [of] Return"), based on the Haftarah read after the weekly Torah portion, which starts with the word "Shuva" literally meaning "Return!", thus playing into the theme of the Ten Days. Alternatively it is known as Shabbat Teshuvah, due to the same theme.

The tenth and last day is Yom Kippur. Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur together constitute the High Holy Days.

Observances
The Unetanneh Tokef prayer, recited on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, declares that "Repentance, Prayer and Charity remove the evil decree." In many editions of the Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur machzor (holiday prayer book), these words are crowned in smaller type with the words [respectively] fast, voice, money to suggest that repentance includes fasting, prayer recited in a loud voice, and donations to charity. As fasting cannot be done on Rosh Hashanah, and money cannot be handled on either of the holidays, these practices are often performed during the Ten Days of Repentance, between the holidays.

Prayers
A number of changes are made to the daily prayers in this period (besides the additional changes made on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur):
 * 1) The conclusions of two blessings in the Amidah prayer are modified to emphasize the theme of Divine kingship. In the third blessing, "the Holy God" is replaced with "the Holy King". In the eighth blessing, "King who loves righteousness and judgment" is replaced with "the King of Judgment" (lit. "the King, the Judgment").
 * 2) Additional insertions are customarily made in the first two and last two blessings of the Amidah. In the first (after "for the sake of His Name in love"): "Remember us for life, King who delights in life; and inscribe us in the book of life, for Your sake, living God"; in the second (after "make salvation to grow"): "Who is like You, merciful Father, remembering His creatures in mercy for life"; in the second-to-last, near the end: "And inscribe for life all the sons of Your covenant"; in the last: "May we be remembered and inscribed before You in the book of life, of blessing, of peace, and of good sustenance." In the final service of Yom Kippur (Neilah), "seal" is said instead of "inscribe". In the Ashkenazi Jews' ritual, at the close of the last benediction, the words "who blesseth his people Israel with peace" are shortened into "the Maker of Peace."
 * 3) The prayer entitled "Avinu Malkeinu" (Our Father, our King) is said in the morning and afternoon services. In the Ashkenazic rite, it is omitted on Shabbat, Friday afternoon, and the 9th of Tishrei (which is a sort of semi-holy day, and on which tachanun is also omitted), while some non-Ashkenazic communities recite it even on Shabbat.
 * 4) On weekdays Selichot are recited, either at night after midnight, or before the morning prayer. The poetical pieces, at least in the Ashkenazi ritual, differ for each of the days. In the Eastern Ashkenazic rite, those for Erev Yom Kippur are the fewest and shortest, whereas in the Western Ashkenazic rite they are the longest. Indeed, the recitation of Selichot begins before the Ten Days of Repentance; in the Ashkenazic tradition, they begin after the Sabbath immediately proceeding Rosh Hashanah (or on the Sabbath before that if Rosh Hashanah falls on a Monday or Tuesday), and in the Sephardic tradition they begin immediately after Rosh Chodesh Elul.

Fasting
There is an old custom to fast all weekdays of the Ten Days of Repentance (except for the eve of Yom Kippur when fasting is forbidden) and there were those who had the custom to fast during the day on Rosh Hashanah. Nevertheless, the common custom today is to fast only on Fast of Gedalia (from dawn to dusk) and for the full day of Yom Kippur.

Additional customs
During these days some are stricter and eat only baked goods produced with a Jew involved in the baking process (a practice known as Pat Yisrael), even though during the year they eat any baked goods made from kosher ingredients (known as pat paltar). If while traveling it is not possible to obtain Pat Yisrael, then being stricter is not a requirement.

There are conflicting customs whether weddings should be held during the weekdays of the Ten Days: some Orthodox Jews avoid holding weddings during this more serious period, while other Orthodox Jews as well as non-Orthodox Jews may do so.

Some Jews and communities perform the Kapparot custom, typically on the day before Yom Kippur.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ten Days of Repentance


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nigger-rigging

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page, if it exists; or after the end of this archived section. The result of the debate was merge and redirect. Mackensen (talk) 16:11, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nigger-rigging
Little used slang-term, and a racist one to boot. Delete. Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:15, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - unencyclopedic. --FCYTravis 09:28, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete dictionary definition. Mgm|(talk) 09:30, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete dictionary definition. Kimchi.sg 09:31, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Delete. This isn't a dictionary. -- Hoary 09:32, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * I think I've seen this get deleted in the past, but delete for the above reasons anyway. Anilocra - (hi!) 10:26, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unfortunately, all-too-commonly used, but nothing more than a dicdef.  Soundguy99 13:06, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. It is in common usage, however it is simply a derogatory dic-def. --Scimitar 14:51, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Linuxbeak | Talk | Desk 14:51, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with nigger. Common use, may be a dicdef, but it's a dicdef in the context of a notably controversial term. -- BD2412 talk 15:40, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Note - I've added a line in the section of that article that discusses combinations of the N word with other words. -- BD2412 talk 21:28, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)
 * Merge with nigger (by which I mean redirect). - DavidWBrooks 18:24, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect although it sounds like something Prince Philip would say. the wub (talk) 22:20, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect. JamesBurns 06:48, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect. Unfortunately I've heard this term more than enough times already.  -- Un focused 15:53, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC).
 * Delete dicdef. Dystopos 14:57, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete But for what it's worth, I know people (even those who aren't racists) use this term. ral  315  19:10, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * Redirect, but to Jury rig (it's a synonym of "Jerry-rig") rather than nigger. It is also worth noting that the word is most commonly used by African-Americans. --FuriousFreddy 00:54, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be placed on a related article talk page, if one exists; in an undeletion request, if it does not; or below this section.


text:
Talk:Beetham Tower

Beetham Tower, Manchester
Beetham tower in Machester will not be the tallest in britain after London. The tallest after London is the post office tower in Birmingham.I realy do find it amazing to untruths which are being told about Mancherster in an childish attempt to claim it is the second city.People reading about manchester on this site should really take every thing on this site with an massive pinch of salt.Nobody minds the truth but lies and spining should not be tolerated.Carl.

 * May I ask, where is the Post Office Tower? - (Erebus555 19:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC))

''The above paragraph has been reinstated after its removal by on 15:51, 23 August 2005 by anon user: 62.49.146.107 who claimed in the edit summary "(Removed the pointless ravings of someone who hates Manchester. Such nonsense makes Wikipedia look childish.)". This may or may not be true, but an editors should not delete talk-page edits with which he does not happen to agree.'' Giano | talk 07:02, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Could you be clear on what exactly the "lie" is? Is it that the Birmigham BT Tower isn't 152m tall, or that the Manchester Beetham Tower won't be 171m? --Khendon 19:40, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

- Beetham Tower Manchester is 157m to roof and 171m to its facade overrun. It is taller than anything in Birmingham, or anywhere else outside of London, that is fact, end of. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.97.209 (talk • contribs)

- The post office tower or the BT Tower is not a skyscraper building if you were to include building like them then Canary Wharf would not be the tallest in the UK it would go to one of the masts like the one at Winter Hill or the tallest structure in the UK Belmont Mast. Also the tower in Birmingham is only taller because of an AERIAL. King Konger 31 may 2006.

The Top 500 is the list of the tallest buildings in the u.k featuring every building over 500ft. For the sake of this list we measure not to the tip of the spire (in which case the Heron Tower would be 727ft) but to the top of the roof. This allows us to get a more accurate idea of the true height of buildings as ever since the race in the late twenties in New York developers have been using spires and needles to increase the height of their buildings for the sake of it.

To see the status of every building check out the legend to the right and match the colours up. If you're not in London and wonder where your city is I'm afraid it isn't anywhere unless you live in Birmingham (which has recently seen doubts as to the viability of projects there) as the rest of the U.k is sadly lacking in tall buildings and it's for this reason there is no national list, it's a bit pointless really.

 * While this page is very interesting and informative, the principal image "Image:Beetham tower.jpg" has no copyright status, so is likely to be deleted unless rectified. Giano | talk 21:24, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Page split
I agree. Once these structures have been completely finished then they are technically individual. - (Erebus555 18:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC))

 * Will there be enough material to make a decent article on all of them? --Khendon 19:40, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe so however if there isn't then an expand tag and a stub tag should be added. I am going to get some pictures for the Birmingham tower so that they can be added to the articles. The Liverpool article will be very small and possibly be only 1 or 2 sentences long. An expert or a person of sufficient knowledge of the project should work on it. The Manchester article, despite being the tallest of three, has little information too. So overall, it seems stub tags will be needed for the majority of the articles. - (Erebus555 19:10, 21 January 2006 (UTC))

 * I think so. I agree with splitting. I'm just about to add some information about the Birmingham tower, and it's already too much for one paragraph. RichF 21:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, the three towers (possibly 5 soon) should each have their own article with this article as a disambiguation page/explaination of the Beetham empire. David 13:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I've split the pages as suggested. The entry for the Liverpool tower does look a little bare at the moment but it and it's Manchester and Birmingham comrades all have stub status, and I'm sure there will be a good sized article on each of them soon as people from the respective cities eagerly add information. A pic of Birmingham's and Liverpool's towers, now that they are complete, would be cool, if anyone has some snaps they'd like to donate. Robert Mercer 19:00, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

 * The Birmingham tower is not complete yet. I just thought I should say, anyway, I will get a picture soon if I can. - (Erebus555 19:01, 22 January 2006 (UTC))

title: Talk:Beetham Tower


text:
Cruck

A cruck or crook frame is a curved timber, one of a pair, which support the roof of a building, historically used in England and Wales. This type of timber framing consists of long, generally naturally curved, timber members that lean inwards and form the ridge of the roof. These posts are then generally secured by a horizontal beam which then forms an "A" shape. Several of these "crooks" are constructed on the ground and then lifted into position. They are then joined together by either solid walls or cross beams which aid in preventing 'racking' (the action of each individual frame going out of square with the rest of the frame, and thus risking collapse).

Etymology
The term crook or cruck comes from Middle English crok(e), from Old Norse krāka, meaning "hook". This is also the origin of the word "crooked", meaning bent, twisted or deformed, and also the crook used by shepherds and symbolically by bishops.

Use
Crucks were chiefly used in the medieval period for structures such as houses and large tithe barns, which were entirely timber-framed. They were also often used for the roofs of stone-walled buildings such as churches. However, these bent timbers were comparatively rare, as they were also in high demand for the shipbuilding industry.

Where naturally curved timbers were convenient and available, carpenters continued to use them at much later dates. For instance, base crucks are found in the roofs of the residential range of Staple Inn Buildings, Nos. 337 – 338, High Holborn, London. This is dated by documented records to 1586, with significant alterations in 1886 (under Alfred Waterhouse) and further restorations in 1936, and 1954–55. Despite these changes Cecil Hewett, an authority on English Historic Carpentry, has stated that these 16th-century crucks are original.

The large main barn of the manor house Barlow Woodseats Hall features what is claimed to be the longest continuously roofed cruck barn in Derbyshire, and possibly even in the United Kingdom.

An example of a Yorkshire cruck barn complete with a heather-thatched roof can be found in Appletreewick. The crucks or cruck "blades" are a single oak tree riven (split) in two to form an equally shaped A frame.

Rare examples of cruck framing are found on continental Europe such as in Belgium, Flanders, Northern France and the Corrèze region of France. No cruck frames are known to have been built in North America though there are rare examples of what may be an upper cruck or knee rafters.

History
The oldest surviving crucks with dates confirmed by tree ring analysis date from around the middle of the 13th century. They may have declined due to providing an inconveniently shaped space in cases where an upper floor was used.

Revival
During the current revival of green-oak framing for new building work, which has occurred mainly since approximately 1980 in the UK, genuine cruck frames have quite often been included in traditionally carpentered structures.

There are also some fine, historically authentic reconstructions. For instance, Tithe Barn, Pilton, Glastonbury, whose original roof was destroyed by lightning, has been carefully rebuilt in 2005 from curved oaks. The necessary trees were sought out, using special templates, in English woodlands.

Types

 * 1) True cruck or full cruck: The blades, straight or curved, extend from a foundation near the ground to the ridge. A full cruck does not need a tie beam and may be called a "full cruck - open" or with a tie beam a "full cruck - closed".
 * 2) Base cruck: The tops of the blades are truncated by the first transverse member such as by a tie beam.
 * 3) Raised cruck: The blades land on masonry wall and extend to ridge.
 * 4) Middle cruck: The blades land on masonry wall and are truncated by collar beam.
 * 5) Upper cruck: The blades land on tie beam, very similar to knee rafters.
 * 6) Jointed cruck: The blades made from two pieces joined near eaves. They can be joined in at least five ways.

The apex of a cruck frame also helps to define the style and region of the cruck. Different types include the butt apex, halved, housed, yoke, and crossed forms.

title: Cruck


text:
Out of the Valley

Out of the Valley is a 1994 album by contemporary folk singer-songwriter John Gorka. This is Gorka's fifth album and unlike the previous four recorded in various places in the northeastern United States, Out of the Valley was recorded at Imagine Sound Studios in Nashville, Tennessee. This is also the first of several Gorka albums to employ the talents of guitarist/producer John Jennings.

Guest vocalists include country music superstars Kathy Mattea and Mary Chapin Carpenter among others. Guest instrumentalists include guitarist Leo Kottke, Fairport Convention drummer Dave Mattacks, and bluegrass virtuosos Jerry Douglas and Tim O'Brien. A notable absence is the voice of Lucy Kaplansky whose background vocals have been a feature of all other Gorka albums.

This is perhaps Gorka's most commercial album and is his only work to have ranked on one of Billboard's charts. It peaked at # 26 on the "Heatseekers" chart. Reactions to the increased level of commercial production in Gorka's folk music were varied. Allmusic states: "...many of the dense musical arrangements do a disservice to his powerful voice." Meanwhile a review in Sing Out! reads: "...nowhere does star power take precedence over bringing out the best in these songs. Congratulations are due to both Gorka and to producer John Jennings." The songs are more upbeat than some of Gorka's earlier works and generally better suited to a more glossy production. Gorka's writing, however, remains strong. Sing Out! states that "Out of the Valley... reveals a mature artist with a keen sense of observation with equal parts humor and compassion." "The Valley" in Gorka's title is a reference to Pennsylvania's Lehigh Valley and as with Gorka's previous albums a number of songs feature stories and characters that are based on Gorka's experiences living in this area that surrounds Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

High Street Records also offered a limited release promotional EP titled Motor Folkin' with alternative mixes of songs from the Out of the Valley recording sessions.

Track listing
All songs written by John Gorka except where noted.
 * 1) "Good Noise" – 3:05
 * 2) "That's Why" – 3:19
 * 3) "Carnival Knowledge (Second Hand Face)" – 3:46
 * 4) "Talk About Love" – 3:11
 * 5) "Big Time Lonesome" – 5:31
 * 6) "Furniture" – 4:47
 * 7) "Mystery to Me" (Gorka, Bartley) – 3:43
 * 8) "Out of the Valley" – 4:48
 * 9) "Thoughtless Behavior" – 4:22
 * 10) "Always Going Home" – 3:32
 * 11) "Flying Red Horse" – 4:14
 * 12) "Up Until Then" – 4:48

Good Noise
"Good Noise" is an upbeat gospel-tinged song that promotes a bright optimism not often found in Gorka's earlier work. High Street Records promoted this song with a music video that appeared on media such as CMT. Cover versions include a recording of the song by the Scottish folk band, The John Wright Band for the 2001 album, Language of the Heart.

Musicians:
 * Drums – Dave Mattacks
 * Bass – J. T. Brown
 * Piano – Matt Rollings
 * Electric and acoustic guitar – John Jennings
 * Acoustic guitar and vocal – John Gorka
 * Backing Vocals – Jonell Mosser, Barbara Santoro, Vinnie Santoro, and John Jennings
 * "Testifying vocals" – Jonell Mosser

That's Why
Gorka never explicitly names the subject of "That's Why". Listeners, however, are able to ascertain much from various references. The following lines about a commemorative stamp are just one example:

"That's Why" is not Gorka's only tribute to the "King of Rock'n'Roll", for another see the 2006 Billy C. Wirtz album, Sermon from Bethlehem, for a recording of "The King & I", a tune penned by Gorka and Fred Koller.

Musicians:
 * Bass – – Michael Manring
 * Lead guitar – Leo Kottke
 * Acoustic guitar & vocal – John Gorka
 * Backing vocal – Kathy Mattea

Carnival Knowledge
According to Sing Out! "Carnival Knowledge" is a tragic story of a circus clown whose grease paint provides his only escape from the depths of low self-esteem."

Musicians:
 * Drums – Vinnie Santoro
 * Bass – J. T. Brown
 * Electric guitar – John Jennings
 * Acoustic guitar – John Gorka

Talk About Love
"Talk About Love" is another one of Gorka's happy blue-inflected love songs. As with the track, "Good Noise" the liner notes describe Jonell Mossers' work as "Testifying vocals".

Musicians:
 * Drums – Dave Mattacks
 * Bass – J. T. Brown
 * Piano & Organ – Matt Rollings
 * Electric, acoustic guitars & backing vocal – John Jennings
 * 12-string guitar & vocal – John Gorka
 * Testifying & backing vocals – Jonell Mosser

Big Time Lonesome

 * Bass – John Jennings
 * "Weisenheimer" guitar – Jerry Douglas
 * Acoustic guitar – John Gorka

Furniture
Sing Out! called "Furniture", a "song of critical self-examination without self-pity."

Musicians:
 * 10-string basses – Michael Manring
 * Guitar – Leo Kottke
 * Vocal – John Gorka
 * Backing vocals – Kathy Mattea

Mystery to Me
According to Allmusic, "the track "Mystery to Me" reveals [Gorka's] wicked sense of humor about the mysteries of attraction."

Musicians:
 * Drums – Dave Mattacks
 * Bass – J. T. Brown
 * Electric & acoustic guitars – John Jennings
 * Gibson archtop acoustic guitar & vocal – John Gorka
 * Backing & testifying vocals – Jonell Mosser
 * Tambourine – "Mystery Man"

Out of the Valley
Like many songs in Gorka's earlier catalog, "Out of the Valley" draws on Gorka's experiences living in Pennsylvania's Lehigh Valley. It was sometime around the time of the recording of this album that Gorka himself moved out of "The Valley" and began the transition to his current home in Minnesota.

Musicians:
 * Drums – Dave Mattacks
 * Bass – J. T. Brown
 * Electric guitar & organ – John Jennings
 * Acoustic guitar & vocal – John Gorka
 * Additional vocals – Mary Chapin Carpenter

Thoughtless Behavior
Musicians
 * Acoustic guitar & vocal – John Gorka
 * Backpack guitar, & harmony vocal – John Jennings
 * Bass – – Michael Manring

Always Going Home
Musicians:
 * Percussion – Vinnie Santoro
 * Bass mandolin & vocal – Tim O'Brien
 * Bass – John Jennings
 * Dobro – Jerry Douglas
 * 12-string guitear – John Gorka

Flying Red Horse
"Flying Red Horse" has been described as a "fantasy of freedom inspired by a gas station sign." Gorka shares his vision of the Mobil logo coming to life and escaping to the sky. While the song is delivered in a serious tone Gorka manages to inject a fair amount of humor:

A reviewer for Allmusic preferred the relatively simple production. He wrote that this track, "in which the only instrumentation is a guitar and the voices of Gorka and Mary Chapin Carpenter, demonstrates an amazing imagination and an ability to captivate with great storytelling."

Musicians:
 * Bass – Edgar Meyer
 * Piano Matt Rollings
 * Acoustic guitar & vocal John Gorka
 * Backing vocal Mary Chapin Carpenter

Up Until Then
Sing Out! stated that "Up Until Then" offers a scene of local characters "that would make Tom Waits proud."

Musicians:
 * Drums – Dave Mattacks
 * Bass – J. T. Brown
 * Electric & acoustic guitars – John Jennings
 * Acoustic guitars & vocal – John Gorka
 * Harmony vocal – Jonell Mosser

Credits
Musicians:
 * (see individual songs above)

Production:
 * Producer – John Jennings
 * Recorded – Eric Paul at Imagine Sound Studios, Nashville, Tennessee, US
 * Additional recording of Leo Kottke – Scott Rivard at Studio M, Saint Paul, Minnesota, US
 * Mixed – Bob Dawson and John Jennings at Bias Recording Company, Springfield, Virginia, US

Motor Folkin'
Motor Folkin' was a 1994 limited issue promotional EP released by High Street Records. Perhaps the track of greatest interest from this release was the live solo version of "Furniture" recorded at "The Mountain", KMTT in Seattle, Washington. Remixes of "Mystery to Me" and "Good Noise" were also included, as was an in-studio recording of "Campaign Trail". A final mix of "Campaign Trail" was not released until 1996 on Gorka's Between Five and Seven.

title: Out of the Valley


text:
User:Tarleton~enwiki

I don't contribute to wikipedia anymore --Tarleton 09:17, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Tarleton~enwiki


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Cairns

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. Golbez 03:12, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Paul Cairns
Was tagged as speedy, but no reason was provided. Sounds like hoax and attack page to me. St. Mungo's + Paul Cairns doesn't yield google hits at all. Delete as hoax or inverifiable. - Mgm|(talk) 09:18, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as hoax. Nothing relevant on Google under "Paul Cairns" +chess either. Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd  09:48, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Hoax, and apparently this one infested the main chess article as well. Thanks to Andreas Kaufmann for spotting it. Sjakkalle (Check!)  10:43, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete there is no famous chess player with such a name. Andreas Kaufmann 11:33, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete hoax. --Etacar11 23:35, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete hoax. JamesBurns 06:48, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages.  Please do not edit this page .


text:
User talk:Cryptic/archive-1

{{welcome}} Alai 09:18, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Speedy deletion tags
Could you please use instead of. If you provide a reason for your speedy tag, it makes life for the deleting admin a lot easier. - Mgm|(talk) 10:22, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Esrum-hillerup
Greetings. Esrum-hillerup wasn't just a copyvio, it's a hoax! I've listed it in votes for deletion. Kind regards. --RobertG ♬ talk 08:41, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Carl Hewitt
Carl Hewitt holds the copyright on this material. The material from the Stanford page comes from the biographical material he provided to them for a lecture which he delivered there. This material is covered by the GNU license.CarlHewitt 11:16, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ellastone
''Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Ellastone, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text borrowed from web sites. For more information, take a look at our policy library. Happy editing! --Cryptic (talk) 14:53, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)''

 * Hi! Thankyou for bringing the copyright violation to light. I must admit that I did not realise that it would have caused problems! I have rewritten the article on the Ellastone/Temp page, including new information of my own (I am a resident of Ellastone), as stated in the Discussion page for Ellastone. Is the article still in violation? Or can it be relisted? Cheers. Jhomayne 16:33, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Ellastone/Temp looks much better, thanks. In about a week, an administrator will delete Ellastone and move Ellastone/Temp over it, so the copyright violation is no longer in the article's history; if you wish, you can accelerate the process by asking one to do a speedy deletion.  The easiest way to do so would be to add    at the top of Ellastone. --Cryptic (talk) 16:52, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Excellent. Thank you very much. Jhomayne 16:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/I1
Dragon's Flight pointed out a serious omission to this proposal: that the image description page of WikiCommons should include the content of the one on Wikipedia. I have reworded the proposal to include that. Because the wording changed, I have hidden your vote; please read the new version and see if you support it now, and reinstate your vote under the appropriate section depending on whether you do. Yours, Radiant_ >|< July 5, 2005 08:17 (UTC)

Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/11
...had an improper clarification that you objected to. I've reworded the clarification to make it actually clarifying, but nothing changed to the proposal itself. Please take another look at it. Radiant_ >|< July 5, 2005 08:27 (UTC)

Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/3
PBurka pointed out that an important omission from this proposal: a band could meet WP:MUSIC criterion #5 (sharing a member with a famous band) and still be speedily deletable by this criterion. I've added a sentence to the proposal to reflect this: it now reads ''An article about a musician or music group that does not assert having released at least one album, nor having had media coverage, nor having a member that is or was also part of a well-known music group. If the assertion is disputed or controversial, it should be taken to VFD instead.'' Please consider if you support this new wording, and change your vote accordingly. Yours, Radiant_ >|< July 5, 2005 10:00 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you with the requests above. Those two proposals were the only two that had an important omission and required a quick fix while there were still relatively few voters. I'm sure there'll be plenty more discussion, but no more significant changes. I've extended the voting period by one day to ensure they get their proper time. Thank you for your consideration. Radiant_ >|< July 5, 2005 10:05 (UTC)

Link colors
Thanks for your help with that minor problem. I'd tried exiting Opera and running it again, going downstairs and frying a steak, but it was only your forced reload instructions that got things back to normal. Cheers, –Hajor 7 July 2005 04:26 (UTC)

CSD P1 redirect
You just changed the redirect on Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal/P1 in suich as way as to make it point to the revcised proposal P1B. P1 is still a live proposal, please don't hide it by accident. There have been so many reverts in this area that I don't want to simply revert your change here. DES 7 July 2005 21:14 (UTC)
 * I only pointed it at where its target redirect (then Expeditious deletion) went - janitorial work, nothing more. I have no opinion where the redirect should point, so long as it's not a non-functional double. —Cryptic (talk) 7 July 2005 21:38 (UTC)
 * Ok I have, i think fixed it. Didn't want to seem to be brash gove recent events here. DES 7 July 2005 21:45 (UTC)

American Nihilist Underground Society
''Hi. You recently replaced this redirect with deletedpage, but didn't protect the article, so it's still receiving periodic vandalism. If it was an oversight not to protect it, could you please do so? If it was intentional, I think the page is doing more harm now than it was as a redirect, and I would appreciate it if you clarified your intentions. Thank you. —Cryptic (talk) 04:54, 11 July 2005 (UTC)''

 * Done. Noel (talk) 18:50, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar!
I just awarded you a barnstar [my first] on your userpage. Congrats. And thanks. — Ilγαηερ   (Tαlκ) '' 04:51, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
I thought I had proofread that Harry Potter update sufficiently, seems one can always benefit from a careful editor!
 * —Hobart 06:46, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Resulting the CSD proposal
Thanks very much for you help pointing out suffrage problems in the Criteria for speedy deletion/Proposal. I would like to ask if you would be willing, at the end, to be the one to review results and post the conclusions. -- Netoholic @ 16:55, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm willing, but don't think that it's appropriate. I've made quite a few people unhappy by pointing out low-edit voters on the proposal, and I'm still very new myself. —Cryptic (talk) 02:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Don't worry about it, I had intended to ask whichever admins happen to be around at the time the vote closes. It should be simple math but there's little reason not to ask two or three opinions on that, just to keep it formal. After edits such as this one, you should probably take Netoholic's opinion regarding this vote with a grain of sand. Radiant_ >|< 09:31, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

CSD expansion closed yet?
I'm just curious if any of the proposals for speedy deletion criteria have closed yet, just because this edit, seems to have already integrated two of the proposals, and I hadn't thought they were yet ratified. Thanks, Silles Sellis 13:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * No, not for another day yet. There's discussion about the diff you cite at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion. —Cryptic (talk) 13:18, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you. Silles Sellis 13:29, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Re deltion of Rambot image
go for it, i dont care, it innacurate anyways Supersaiyanplough|(talk) 02:16, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

WikiThanks
Hey thanks for all your recent help at Votes for deletion/Old/Transwiki, the transwiki log, and transwikiing in general. I just thought you should know it's been noticed and appreciated. So thanks again, and keep it up! Dmcdevit·t 02:29, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Transwiki
Thanks for working on the transwiki to wikisource. Is it possible to hold off on transwiking lists and tables for the moment? I am trying to convince people that lists and tables that are supplements to articles on wikipedia should be kept on wikicommons and not wikisource. CSN 03:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Will do. Since I don't follow Wikisource at all, I would appreciate it if you could inform me when this is resolved (and, if it's decided not to keep these on Wikisource, which articles they used to be so I can see about getting them undeleted on Wikipedia). —Cryptic (talk) 03:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

On second thought, go ahead and transwiki whatever you'd like. Things aren't moving any too fast over at Wikisource. Once everything is transwiki'd to Source it'll be easier to establish a clear policy for where all this stuff should be and then move it whereever it belongs. Thanks for waiting. CSN 00:23, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Re the snape template
You dont think its a good idea? Ok thats cool. Supersaiyanplough|(talk) 05:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Not while it's still in your userspace and the formatting issues you mentioned on the talk page are unresolved, no. —Cryptic (talk) 05:28, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Its only in my userspace while i let people look at it and decide what they think, and I am trying to resolve that problem. What if I fix it, and move it to a proper template? Supersaiyanplough|(talk) 10:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Kodocha
Since you seem to know how, can you please move Kodocha to Kodomo no Omocha? That's really where it belongs, as Kodocha is more of a short-hand way of writing it, as opposed to the actual title. Alternatively, you could move the article to Kodocha: Sana's Stage (proposed English title), but yesterday I changed all the links (on 'list of anime', Miho Obana (author)'s page, etc.) to be Kodomo no Omocha, so it'd be easiest to just put it there. (preceding unsigned comment by 195.92.168.164 19:51, 20 July 2005 (UTC))

 * See Requested moves. —Cryptic (talk) 06:24, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Reading spark plugs for racing
Why was this page speedy deleted? There was a VfD. The decision of the VfD is at Votes for deletion/Reading spark plugs for racing and it was to transwiki. The tag at the time clearly indicated that if it could be reworked, it shouldn't be transwiki'd. I and the original author reworked it. Furthermore, I notified all the original VfD participants of that and their comments to keep the article are now logged in the talk page. Can you please restore the article? (You can respond at the article talk page.) Thanks. Samw 21:56, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

 * It was Dmcdevit who transwikied the article and Master Thief Garrett who deleted it. My involvement was only peripheral, in that I tagged the article as a speedy after it had been listed in the "Have been transwikied and await deletion" section of the transwiki queue (this section is now obsolete, since the new CSD case for vfd'd-and-transwikied articles took effect), and the talk page after it had been orphaned.

 * I do not recall whether the article was still tagged when I tagged it, and since I was performing neither the transwiki nor the deletion, I did not compare the article to the state it was in when it was vfd'd.  If it was indeed different enough that the vfd should not apply, I suggest that you list it at Votes for undeletion; as I am not an administrator, I cannot restore the article.  My own opinion is that the article as transwikied still reads like a how-to, which are better suited to Wikibooks. —Cryptic (talk) 23:55, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto IV
Hi, Please stop trying to get Grand Theft Auto IV Deleted! This event will happen. Plus, if Harry Potter: Book Seven is allowed on Wikipedia, so is Grand Theft Auto IV - Agent003

 * Do not remove speedy tags from articles you have created. —Cryptic (talk) 18:44, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

I will Remove it, as it is Vandalism! - Agent003

 * Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.  —Cryptic (talk) 18:49, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

YOU ARE THE VANDAL !! NOT ME !! - Agent003

 * [[Image:Stop_hand.svg|left|30px]] This is your last warning. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia.  —Cryptic (talk) 18:52, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

If you keep vandalising you WILL be Blocked!! - Agent003

Agent003
''Please reconsider your decision not to block Agent003; he has escalated to vandalism of my user page, despite his announcement that he has left Wikipedia. —Cryptic (talk) 19:45, 24 July 2005 (UTC)''

 * I've blocked Agent003 for ½ hour; hopefully that will give him some time to cool off. JYolkowski // talk 19:59, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you. (And I apologize for the inappropriate post on WP:AIV; I would have sworn "recreation vandalism" was listed on Vandalism, but the only pages I'm finding on google that mention it now are Category:Pelican shit and some old TFD discussions.) —Cryptic (talk) 20:05, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

A request
Hey there. You've been doing some great work transwikiing. I saw the note about using a script to do transwikiing on your user page. FYI, there is currently no Wiktionary bot; I used to have it, but the recent software upgrade broke it. Since then, I've been looking around for a replacement, and meanwhile the backlog has been building (from zero it's now at ~250). I was just wondering if you'd be willing to share your script so I can continue helping with the transwikis as well. I hope this doesn't sound presumptuous or anything in asking for a copy of your own work, but I just think I can help out. Thanks! --Dmcdevit·t 05:41, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * Quick answer: it's in User:Cryptic/standard.js and b:User:Cryptic/standard.js, if you speak enough JavaScript to separate out the relevant bits. Slow answer: I've been meaning to separate out the relevant bits myself, make them skin-neutral, and document them anyway; since you asked, I'll see about doing so today or tomorrow, most likely, and put them into User:Cryptic/transwiki.js. —Cryptic (talk) 05:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

 * That'll be great. I'm about as fluent in Javascript as I am in any other computer language (meaning zero :), although I did make a BASIC program on my graphing calculator once), so sorry about that. I may need some instructions. Well, thanks! --Dmcdevit·t 06:38, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, I tried out the script, but uh, I had problems on the other-wiki side of it, (Wiktionary in this case). At each of the steps, the wikification, and transwiki log and edit summaries, etc. on Wiktionary, it just gave me an error message. But it worked fine on Wikipedia. Ideas? --Dmcdevit·t 01:51, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't see a wikt:User:Dmcdevit/monobook.js, or anything in any of the other skins' js files. Was it deleted?  Or was it under a different user name?  And what was the error message it gave you? —Cryptic (talk) 19:56, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I have a different username there, could that be it? Anyway, it's at wikt:User:McBot/monobook.js. When I click the edit summary tab I get

(the text of function transwiki_summary)

 * clicking wikify history gives me:

(the text of function transwiki_history)

 * And I have no "log entry" button at all. Nothing wrong at all with the Wikipedia end of it though. Maybe I messed it up somehow, but I can't figure it out. --Dmcdevit·t 20:16, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * The first problem is fixed by this diff. The second is because you use underscores instead of spaces in the value of transwiki_log_location. —Cryptic (talk) 20:42, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Ah, it's working well. This is great script. I plan on plowing through as much of the Wiktionary backlog as I can over the weekend, though I'm pretty busy right now. Thanks. Oh and I took the liberty of adding that last little step to your instructions. Anyway, thanks again. --Dmcdevit·t 21:16, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh yes, and one more thing. Transwiki to WikiNews is technically illegal, since WikiNews is public domain, not GFDL. Might want to remove that... --Dmcdevit·t 05:55, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

TOCright
Why did you but the TfD tag back on TOCright less than a month after it was voted to be kept? DES 13:57, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Because Raul654 listed it on WP:TFD. —Cryptic (talk) 18:07, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. that makes sense. I see someone else de-listed it again. DES 20:54, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Anagoge
I updated an English Wikipedia link to anagoge to make it look at the wiktionary article but it isn't there yet. I'm contemplating undeleting the Wikipedia copy. Is there a delay in this kind of transwiki? --Tony Sidaway Talk 00:36, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Transwikied pages stay in the Transwiki: pseudo-namespace until someone at the other project moves it out. Anagogue is currently residing at wikt:Transwiki:Anagoge. —Cryptic (talk) 00:44, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

nn-bio redirs
Thanks for fgixing the double redirs via nn-bio. I was workign my way throught the pages that had to be fixed, you got to these before i did. Thanks. DES (talk) 23:58, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Transclusion in speedy delete templates
Several of the speedy deletion tempaltes were recently edited to remove the transclusion of db-reason, specifically db-repost and db-nonsense. I have started a discussion of this at Template talk:Db-reason. I am reluctant to simply revert without discussuion given recent developemts on these tempaltes, and my involvement in the TfDs and Renames. Your voice would be welcome on tjhis issue. DES (talk) 18:02, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

GamerWiki
The GamerWiki entry was removed from List of wikis and you referred to the GamerWiki page's deletion in June. There are other, similar, sites, listed on the List of wikis, and I would like to re-list it, but do not want it to just be deleted again. If there is policy being applied in this case, then others in the list should also be removed under the same criteria. Others in the list also have a page that I used as a template to describe the GamerWiki entry, so was confused as to why this was also deleted. -- Tyagi 00:17, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

 * There was no formal policy being applied, no; my removal was prompted by your rewrite of the article and Weyes' comment on the vfd. A comparison of list of wikis to SwitchWiki shows that our article is not remotely meant to be exhaustive, though I'm not sure what its criteria are.  I rather suspect that a wiki with 356 articles and an Alexa rank currently at 2.8 million falls short of the threshold, however. —Cryptic (talk) 12:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for taking the time to respond. I understand the reasoning that GamerWiki does not currently have the traffic, content, and Internet profile for the List of wikis. However, looking at similar sites to GamerWiki on the list, namely Gamingwiki and Encyclopedia Gamia, they have comparable rankings and levels of content. So I can either re-add GamerWiki to the list, but not create an article page for it, or we can look at cleaning through the list to remove those smaller sites that have been added. -- 20:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Before you send me a note about the placement of VFDs
Sorry. Thanks for cleaning up after me... Sjakkalle (Check!)  11:51, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Adamwankenobi
Thanks for the notification; I blocked his new account. Please tell me if you notice any others! Regards — Dan | Talk 19:21, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * My goal is not vandalism. What I did to ALinkToThePast was merely to make him aware, as I had tried, that the "cleanup" template didn't need to be at the top of pages because they were too vague. We are now in discussion over this, and are trying to reach a consensus. TheAlternateReality 20:24, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

You win
I will stop adding the shadows of the empire project to the star wars films category. I changed the article itself to state that the project is the closest in star wars continuity to a movie, without actually being a movie. Sounds like a fair compromise, eh? TheAlternateReality 22:13, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

No, we all win when the silly reverts end. ;) - Dr Haggis - Talk 22:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Sense of humor
At least tell me you laughed? Agriculture 03:58, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Re:Delisting Items
hello, why are you relisting items that should have not been listed for deletion in the first place? i thank you.(Cathytreks 21:44, 2 September 2005 (UTC))

 * Please do not remove Images for deletion notices from image pages or remove other people's comments in votes for deletion pages. The notices and comments are needed to establish community consensus about the status of an image, and removing them is considered vandalism. If you oppose its deletion, you may comment at the respective page instead. Thank you. —Cryptic (talk) 21:56, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

re: deletion
IT WAS NOT A TEST. PLEASE DO NOT EDIT MY POSTS. THANK YOU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.62.21.8 (talk • contribs) apparently referring to this

Ty
Ty for telling me that AFD subpages need a start in the beggining i just follow the way it was formed in the edit page and my AFD keeps getting stuck. TY --Aranda56 04:23, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Redlinks in afd summaries
''Please update your autovfd script; it's still leaving redlinks to Votes for deletion/whatever as the summaries on the afd daily logs. The appropriate line is'' document.editform.wpSummary.value = 'Votes for deletion/' + target + ;'' in ; it needs to change to document.editform.wpSummary.value = 'Articles for deletion/' + target + ;'' ''Thank you. —Cryptic (talk) 22:56, 3 September 2005 (UTC)''

 * Uh, I'm not sure which AfD you're referring to. I fixed it a couple days ago e.g. Controversial science has a bluelink to AfD. Was this Fender bender? That got messed with by a vandal doing a bunch of moves (not WoW). -Splash 23:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * It's just your edit summaries (so it's purely cosmetic, but still annoying). See the history of the daily log pages. —Cryptic (talk) 23:06, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Aaaaahhh, I see. Should have read your message more carefully; was distracted at the time. Will fix it now. -Splash 23:09, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Category Question
Hello, O Cryptic One. What does this kind of edit to a category label do, exactly? I'm referring to the change in the Newbery Medal cat., rather than the 2001 book cat. addition. Joyous (talk) 18:57, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * It sorts the article title under S in the category, instead of A. —Cryptic (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Ohhhh. Thanks very much.  Learned something today.  Joyous  (talk) 19:05, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Hurricane Katrina
In concern of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#Government_response_issues, Wikipedia is an International website, not only for US. so pls use "US. President" instead of "President" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.95.183.79 (talk • contribs)

 * cough —Cryptic (talk) 08:18, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Protected page...
...is now protected. Gotta run! - Lucky 6.9 05:55, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Hurrican Katharina Info Box
hi, you did undo my edit but the sentence should read Highest sustained winds as agreed in the discussion, if you are unable to change it to that, please leave it alone for a admin fixing it accordingly. If you find you changed it to the right thing, then please enter discussion.

(Wilhelm.peter 09:36, 7 September 2005 (UTC))

Thanks for your help!
Thanks for helping me out with the 2 table situation! I greatly appreciate it, especially after looking through numerous help articles with no avail.

--Kurthalomieu J. McCool 04:39, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

And thank you also for reverting the vandalism to my talk page. Much obliged. Fernando Rizo T/C 11:12, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Redirect
Thanks for correcting my redirect of the everdead. It was my first attempt at redirect. See you around. Psy guy (talk) 18:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Removing stray
Cryptic, Thanks for fixing my mistake on the CSD. I must admit I'm an addict when it comes to the line break. You've given me something else to be paraoid about. ^_^; brenneman (t) (c)  05:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Fair Use
Thanks for changing that, and don't worry, you're not intruding. I'm not one of those people who freaks out when someone edits a page in their user space. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 22:25, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Ifd
When you put an image on the Ifd page, please post a message on the uploader's talk page. The process at the top of the Ifd page lists this as a requirement and it seems only fair. I could not find any evidence of a notice to uploader for Image:0755312635.02.amazon.co.uk.jpg so I posted an image deletion warning and relisted on today's ifd page. --Thanks --Nv8200p (talk) 15:11, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Then I suggest you bring it up with the originally nominator, who was not me, instead. —Cryptic (talk) 15:25, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The original nominator was the uploader! I missed it. Sorry I bothered you --Nv8200p (talk) 15:50, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cryptic/archive-1


text:
LMS 2-Cylindered Stanier 2-6-4T

Sir William Stanier's London, Midland and Scottish Railway (LMS) Class 4P 2-Cylinder 2-6-4T was a class of 206 steam locomotive built between 1935 and 1943. They were based on his LMS 3-Cylinder 2-6-4T.

Numbering
The LMS numbered them 2425–94, and then 2537–672, BR adding 40000 to their numbers to make them 42425–94, and then 42537–672. The LMS classified them 4P, BR 4MT. They were the basis for the LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T.

Accidents and incidents

 * On 15 August 1953, locomotive No. 42474 was hauling a passenger train which collided with an electric multiple unit that overran signals at Irk Valley Junction, Manchester, Lancashire. The junction is on a viaduct, and one of the carriages of the electric multiple unit plunged 40 ft into the River Irk. Ten people were killed and 58 were injured.

Film use
No 2429 had a starring role as Celia Johnson's branch line engine in the 1945 film Brief Encounter, which was made at Carnforth station during the winter of 1944–45. The BR numberplate (42429) was sold at a BR auction held in the old Refreshment Room at Southport Chapel Street station.

Withdrawal
The first withdrawal was in 1960, with the last in 1967. None have been preserved (though the original of the 3-Cylinder 2-6-4T version, number 2500, is preserved at the National Railway Museum, and two examples of the nearly identical LMS Fairburn 2-6-4T are also still in existence).

Models
Hornby Model Railways has released Stanier's 4MT as a 00 Gauge ready-to-run model. Two versions are to be released; one in LMS Black, the other in BR Black (early and late).

A pre-war O gauge model of this locomotive was produced by Marklin for Bassett-Lowke models in 1937; this continued in UK production by Winteringham until 1957. This model has been reproduced in O gauge by ACE Trains in 2009; both LMS and BR black versions have been manufactured.

title: LMS 2-Cylindered Stanier 2-6-4T


text:
Such, Such Were the Joys

"Such, Such Were the Joys" is a long autobiographical essay by the English writer George Orwell.

In the piece, Orwell describes his experiences between the ages of eight and thirteen, in the years before and during World War I (from September 1911 to December 1916), while a pupil at a preparatory school: St Cyprian's, in the seaside town of Eastbourne, in Sussex. The essay offers various reflections on the contradictions of the Edwardian middle and upper class world-view, on the psychology of children, and on the experience of oppression and class conflict.

It was probably drafted in 1939–40, revised in 1945–46, and not completed until May or June 1948. It was first published by Partisan Review in 1952, two years after Orwell's death.

The veracity of the stories it contains about life at St. Cyprian's has been challenged by a number of commenters, including Orwell's contemporaries at the school and biographers, but its powerful writing and haunting observations have made it one of Orwell's most commonly anthologised essays.

Summary and analysis
The title of the essay is taken from "The Echoing Green", one of William Blake's Songs of Innocence which Orwell's mother had read to him when they lived at Henley:

":Old John, with white hair,
 * Does laugh away care,
 * Sitting under the oak,
 * Among the old folk.
 * They laugh at our play,
 * And soon they all say,
 * 'Such, such were the joys
 * When we all – girls and boys —
 * In our youth-time were seen
 * On the echoing Green.'"

The allusion is never explained in Orwell's text, but it is grimly ironic, since Orwell recollects his early boarding school experiences with almost unrelieved bitterness. St Cyprian's was, according to him, a "world of force and fraud and secrecy," in which the young Orwell, a shy, sickly and unattractive boy surrounded by pupils from families much richer than his own, was "like a goldfish" thrown "into a tank full of pike." The piece fiercely attacks the cruelty and snobbery of both his fellow pupils and of most of the adults connected with the school, – particularly the headmaster, Mr. Vaughan Wilkes, nicknamed "Sambo," and his wife Cicely, nicknamed "Flip".

Orwell describes the education he received as "a preparation for a sort of confidence trick," geared entirely towards maximising his future performance in the admissions exams to leading English public schools, such as Eton and Harrow, without any concern for actual knowledge or understanding. Orwell also claims that he was accepted as a boarder at St Cyprian's —at half of the usual fees—in the hopes that he would earn scholarship that would contribute to the school's prestige, and therefore to its commercial success. Morever, he writes that his training relied heavily on corporal punishment, while the rich boys received preferential treatment and were never beaten.

The essay lashes out at the hypocrisy of the Edwardian society in which Orwell grew up and in which a boy was "bidden to be at once a Christian and a social success, which is impossible." A chapter is devoted to the puritanical attitudes towards sex at the time and to the frightful consequences of the discovery of what appears to have been a case of mutual masturbation among a group of boys at the school. On the other hand, Orwell describes the actual "pattern of school life" as

"a continuous triumph of the strong over the weak. Virtue consisted in winning: it consisted in being bigger, stronger, handsomer, richer, more popular, more elegant, more unscrupulous than other people—in dominating them, bullying them, making them suffer pain, making them look foolish, getting the better of them in every way. Life was hierarchical and whatever happened was right. There were the strong, who deserved to win and always did win, and there were the weak, who deserved to lose and always did lose, everlastingly."

Orwell's story is also punctuated by anecdotes about the dirt and squalor surrounding him at St Cyprian's. He describes the porridge at the dining hall as containing "more lumps, hairs and unexplained black things than one would have thought possible, unless someone were putting them there on purpose," recalls seeing a human turd floating in the Devonshire Baths, and mentions how a new boy's teeth turned green because of neglect.

According to the essay, the main lesson that Orwell took away from St Cyprian's was that, for a "weak" and "inferior" person such as himself, "to survive, or at least to preserve any kind of independence, was essentially criminal, since it meant breaking rules which you yourself recognized," and that he lived in a world "where it was not possible [for him] to be good." In the piece, Orwell also reflects that children live "in a sort of alien under-water world which we can only penetrate by memory or divination," and he wonders whether even in more modern times, without "God, Latin, the cane, class distinctions and sexual taboos," it might still be normal for schoolchildren to "live for years amid irrational terrors and lunatic misunderstandings."

Background
Secondary education for the dominant classes in England since the early 19th century has been provided mainly by the fee-paying public schools. These have selective entrance by examination and offer scholarships by competitive examination, which offset all or part of the fees. The curriculum in Orwell's time, and for long after, centred on the classics. Prep schools were established from the 19th century to prepare students for these examinations and to provide a broader-based education than the traditional crammer, offering sports and additional subjects. Prep school children were often boarders, starting as early as five or as late as twelve. Boarding was, and still is, for terms of three months. Eastbourne was a popular town for preparatory schools at the turn of the 20th century because its bracing sea air was believed to be healthy, and by 1896, Gowland's Eastbourne Directory listed 76 private schools for boys and girls. An Eton scholarship was most highly prized, not just for its financial value but because it provided access to the elite intellectual cadre of King's Scholars. One of the leading prep schools of the time, Summer Fields School, set in the university town of Oxford and with which St Cyprian's eventually was to merge, won every year at least five of the available Eton scholarships.

Orwell's mother sent him (as Eric Blair) to board at St Cyprian's School at the age of eight in 1911. The school had been founded twelve years earlier by the headmaster, Vaughan Wilkes, and his wife Cicely. It had moved into newly built facilities in extended grounds in 1906. Although able to charge high fees for better-off parents, the Wilkeses supported traditional families on lower incomes, particularly in the colonial service, by taking their children at considerably reduced fees. Orwell was one of several beneficiaries, who also included Cyril Connolly, Alaric Jacob, and Walter Christie. Mrs Wilkes spotted Orwell looking sad on his arrival and tried to comfort him, but noted "there was no warmth in him". Nor did he respond positively to being taken on a picnic the following day. Senior boys in Orwell's first year included Ian Fraser and Bolo Whistler. His early letters home report a normal catalogue of class placings, results of games, and school expeditions.

In September 1914 Cyril Connolly arrived at the school and formed a close friendship with Orwell. World War I had just broken out, and Orwell's patriotic poem written at school was published in the Henley and South Oxfordshire Standard. The war made life difficult for the school – most of the teaching staff left to fight, although one staff member Charles Edgar Loseby, later a Labour MP, returned for a period while recovering from being gassed in the trenches. The First World War had a significant effect in other ways – there was the increasing roll call of old boys killed in the trenches, Mr Wilkes spent his summer holidays driving ambulances in France, the boys knitted and put on entertainments for the injured troops camped nearby, and food shortages made feeding a challenge. Classics was taught by Mr Wilkes, while the formidable Mrs Wilkes taught English, history and scripture. The long-serving deputy, Robert Sillar, taught geography, drawing, shooting and nature studies and was highly regarded in old boys' accounts. Outings on the South Downs were a regular part of school life, and Sillar led the boys on nature study expeditions. The school had instituted a Cadet Corps, in which Orwell was an active member. Orwell recalls stealing books off Connolly and Connolly describes how they reviewed each other's poetry. Cecil Beaton vaguely recalled working on the school's war-time allotments with Orwell. During his time at school, Orwell surreptitiously collected the saucy seaside postcards that were later to figure in his essay The Art of Donald McGill.

In 1916 Orwell came second in the Harrow History Prize, had another poem published in the Henley and South Oxfordshire Standard, and with Connolly had his work praised by the external examiner Sir Charles Grant Robertson. In 1916 Orwell won a scholarship to Wellington College, a school with a military background appropriate for colonial service. Mr Wilkes also believed Orwell could win an Eton scholarship and would benefit from Eton College life and so he sat the Eton exam as well. Orwell headed the school prize list in 1916 with Classics, while Cyril Connolly won the English prize, Cecil Beaton won the drawing prize, Walter Christie won the history prize and Rupert Lonsdale won the scripture prize. Henry Longhurst, Lord Pollington and Lord Malden were among the winners of other class prizes. Other activities in which Orwell was involved included narrowly missing winning the diving competition, playing the part of Mr Jingle in the school play, and being commended as a useful member of the 1st XI cricket team. Although he had won an Eton scholarship, this was subject to a place becoming available. Instead of going to Wellington he stayed at St Cyprian's for an additional term in the hope that a place at Eton would materialise. As this had not happened by the end of term, he went on to Wellington in January. However, after he had been there for nine weeks, an Eton place became available, which Orwell took.

Publication
On sending a version of the essay to Warburg, in May 1947, Orwell stated that he had written the "long autobiographical sketch" partly as a "sort of pendant" to the publication in 1938 of Enemies of Promise, an autobiographical work by Cyril Connolly, and at Connolly's request. Connolly, who had been Orwell's companion at St Cyprian's and later at Eton, had written an account of St Cyprian's which, though cynical, was fairly appreciative compared to Orwell's. In his letter to Warburg, Orwell wrote that he thought his essay "really too libellous to print", adding that it should be printed "when the people most concerned are dead". The libel report for Secker & Warburg, compiled after Orwell's death, judged that well over thirty paragraphs were defamatory.

Sonia Orwell and Warburg both wanted to publish Such, Such Were the Joys immediately after Orwell's death, but Sir Richard Rees, who was Orwell's literary executor violently disagreed. He considered the work "grossly exaggerated, badly written, and likely to harm Orwell's reputation" and when Sonia insisted, he told her, "You’re completely nutty about St Cyprian's". Thereafter, Rees had no further involvement in publishing decisions. In 1952, within two years of Orwell's death a version was published in the United States in the Partisan Review. In this version the school was referred to as "Crossgates" and the names of the headmaster and his wife altered to Mr and Mrs Simpson ("Sim" and his wife "Bingo"). Following Mrs Wilkes' death in 1967, "Such, Such Were the Joys" was published in the UK, but with only the name of the school and the proprietors in original form – the real names of his fellow pupils were still disguised. In the Completed Works edition (2000), the original text including all names has been restored.

Most biographers have to a greater or lesser extent concluded that "Such, Such Were the Joys" significantly misrepresents the school and exaggerates Orwell's suffering there. David Farrer, partner of Orwell's publishers, considered it a "gross distortion of what took place".

Reaction from contemporaries
Of his contemporaries, Cecil Beaton wrote of the piece "It is hilariously funny, but it is exaggerated". Connolly, on reviewing Stansky & Abraham's interpretation, wrote "I was at first enchanted as by anything which recalls one's youth but when I went to verify some references from my old reports and letters I was nearly sick... In the case of St Cyprian's and the Wilkes whom I had so blithely mocked I feel an emotional disturbance... The Wilkeses were true friends and I had caricatured their mannerisms (developed as a kind of ritual square-bashing for dealing with generations of boys) and read mercenary motives into much that was just enthusiasm." Walter Christie and Henry Longhurst went further and wrote their own sympathetic accounts of the school in response to Orwell's and voiced their appreciation for the formidable Mrs Wilkes. Robert Pearce, researching the papers of another former pupil, made a comprehensive study from the perspective of the school, investigating school records and other pupils' accounts. While some features were universal features of prep school life, he concluded that Orwell's depiction bore little relation to reality and that Orwell's defamatory allegations were unsupportable. Davison writes "If one is looking for a factual account for life at St Cyprian's, this is not the place to seek it."

On Orwell's claimed state of misery, Jacintha Buddicom, who knew him well at the time, also raised a strong challenge. She wrote "I can guarantee that the 'I' of "Such, Such were the Joys" is quite unrecognisable as Eric as we knew him then", and "He was a philosophical boy, with varied interests and a sense of humour—which he was inclined to indulge when referring to St Cyprian's in the holidays."

title: Such, Such Were the Joys


text:
Moniot d'Arras

Moniot d'Arras (fl. 1213–1239) was a French composer and poet of the trouvère tradition. He was a monk ("Moniot" is a diminutive for monk) of the abbey of Arras in northern France; the area was at the time a center of trouvère activity, and his contemporaries included Adam de la Halle and Colin Muset. His songs were all monophonic in the tradition of pastoral romance and courtly love; he also wrote religious songs. About fifteen of his secular songs, and two religious songs, survive; his most famous song is "Ce fut en mai".

title: Moniot d'Arras


text:
List of bridges in Hungary

This list of bridges in Hungary lists bridges of particular historical, scenic, architectural or engineering interest. Road and railway bridges, viaducts, aqueducts and footbridges are included.

Major road and railway bridges
This table presents the structures with spans greater than 100 meters (non-exhaustive list).

Notes and references

 * Others references

title: List of bridges in Hungary


text: File:John Gorka-Temporary Road.jpg

title: File:John Gorka-Temporary Road.jpg