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Joe Chill

Joe Chill is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, commonly in association with the superhero Batman. Created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane, the character first appeared in Detective Comics #33 (November 1939).

In Batman's origin story, Joe Chill is the mugger who murders young Bruce Wayne's parents, Dr. Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne. The murder traumatizes Bruce, inspiring his vow to avenge their deaths by fighting crime in Gotham City as the vigilante Batman.

Doug Bradley voiced Joe Chill in Gotham Knights and Richard Brake portrayed him in Batman Begins.

Publication history
Joe Chill first appears in Detective Comics #33 and was created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane.

Fictional character biography
Chill is, in most versions of Batman, a petty mugger who kills Bruce's parents Thomas and Martha while trying to take their money and jewelry. When he demands Martha's necklace, Thomas moves to protect his wife and Chill panics and shoots him. He then kills Martha when she screams for help (in later versions up to the 1970s, Martha dies from a heart attack brought on from the shock of seeing her husband murdered). Chill runs away when Bruce begins crying and calling for help — but not before the boy memorizes his features. In at least three versions of the Batman mythos, the Waynes' killer is never identified.

Pre-Crisis version
Batman's origin story is first established in a sequence of panels in Detective Comics #33 (November 1939) that is later reproduced in the comic book Batman #1 (Spring 1940), but the mugger is not given a name until Batman #47 (June–July 1948). In that issue, Batman discovers that Joe Chill, the small-time crime boss he is investigating, is none other than the man who killed his parents. Batman confronts him with the knowledge that Chill killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Chill accuses him of bluffing, but Batman takes off his cowl and reveals his secret identity: "I know because I am the son of the man you murdered! I am Bruce Wayne!!"

Terrified, Chill flees and seeks protection from his henchmen. Once his henchmen learn that Chill's actions led to the hated Batman's existence, however, they turn on their boss and gun him down before suddenly realizing how priceless his knowledge of Batman's true identity is. Before the dying Chill has a chance to reveal Batman's identity, the Dark Knight intervenes and knocks out the goons. Chill dies in Batman's arms, acknowledging that the Dark Knight got his revenge after all. Len Wein and John Byrne add a one-panel coda in their retelling of this scene in the first issue of The Untold Legend of the Batman. Batman stands over Chill's body and says "No, Chill -- The Batman didn't finish you... It was Bruce Wayne!"

In Detective Comics #235 (1956), Batman learns that Chill was not a mere mugger, but actually a hitman who murdered the Waynes on orders from mob boss Lew Moxon as revenge for Thomas foiling one of his robberies. Batman deduces that Chill spared his life so he would unwittingly support Moxon's alibi that he had nothing to do with a robbery that was really a planned murder.

In The Brave and the Bold #79 (September 1968), Joe Chill is revealed to have a brother named Max who is also a criminal. Max Chill is suspected of having murdered Boston Brand (AKA Deadman), though the suspicion proves erroneous as Boston Brand was actually killed by Hook. Max is killed when a stack of slot machines falls onto him while he is attacking Batman.

In Batman #208 (January/February 1969), it is revealed that both Joe and Max had changed their name to Chill from Chilton and that their mother was the housekeeper to Bruce Wayne's uncle Philip Wayne, who became Bruce's primary guardian after his parents' deaths. As Philip was often away on business, Mrs. Chilton played the primary parental role in Bruce's life. As an adult, Bruce continues to visit her and still calls her "Mom Chilton", unaware of her connection with Joe and Max Chill. For her part, Mrs. Chilton knows Bruce is Batman and is proud of him. She is also aware of what her sons did, but she still mourns their deaths. Alfred Pennyworth, the Wayne family butler, is also secretly aware of Mrs. Chilton's connection to Joe and Max Chill, but he keeps that information from Bruce. He muses that "in her own way, that dear woman more than made up for her son's heinous crime".

Post-Crisis version
In the 1987 storyline Batman: Year Two, Chill played a key role. Several Gotham City crime bosses hire Chill, an experienced button man, to kill the Reaper, a vigilante serial killer who is murdering their associates. When Batman proposes an alliance with the bosses, they agree that he and Chill will work together — something Batman finds repugnant, but which he nevertheless justifies to himself as necessary to stop the Reaper. He vows to kill Chill afterwards. The crime bosses also secretly commission Chill to kill Batman after he and the Caped Crusader have disposed of the Reaper.

During a major confrontation, the crime bosses are all killed in a shootout at a warehouse, in which the Reaper seemingly also perishes. Chill reasons that he has no reason to fulfill his contract, but Batman takes him to "Crime Alley", the scene of his parents' murder. There he confronts Chill and reveals his identity. Batman has Chill at gunpoint, but the Reaper then appears and guns Chill down. It is left ambiguous as to whether or not Batman would have actually pulled the trigger.

In the 1991 sequel to "Year Two", Batman: Full Circle, Chill's son Joe Chill, Jr. assumes the identity of the Reaper to seek revenge for his father's death. He attempts to drive Batman insane by using hallucinogenic drugs in conjunction with a faked video of the Waynes' murder to trigger Batman's survivor's guilt over his parents' death and thus break his spirit. After the intervention of Robin, Batman frees himself from the drug-induced haze. After the new Reaper is defeated, Batman learns to let go of his hatred of Chill.

In Detective Comics #678, a "Zero Hour" crossover story, Batman finds himself in an alternate timeline where, instead of his parents, he was killed by a mugger. Investigating the crime, he discovers that Chill, at least in this timeline, did not commit the murder. Once he returns to his own timeline, Bruce Wayne is plagued with doubt; he wonders if there is a possibility that he never actually caught his parents' killer, and if that makes any difference regarding his crimefighting career. Ultimately, he concludes that it does not.

In 2006, Infinite Crisis #6 reestablished that Chill was responsible for killing Thomas and Martha Wayne, and that he was later arrested on that same night for their murder.

In the 2008 Grant Morrison story "Joe Chill in Hell" (featured in Batman #673), Chill is reinterpreted as a mid-level crime boss who builds a company called Land, Sea, and Air Transport, which he uses as a front for his other, illegal businesses. He blames his crimes, including murdering the Waynes, on class warfare, claiming that the unequal distribution of wealth in Gotham forced him to commit crimes in order to survive. In this story, Batman has visited and frightened Chill every night for a month. Chill is living as a shut-in, but his guards never see or catch Batman during the visits. On his final visit, Batman gives Chill the gun he used to kill the Waynes, with a single bullet loaded in it. Chill finally realizes who Batman is and fears what his fellow gangsters might do if they found out he was responsible for creating him. It is implied that he uses his gun to commit suicide. Considering the issue consists of Bruce's flashbacks and hallucinations from an experiment he undergoes during his early career, however, it is left ambiguous whether the events of the story are real.

In 2009's Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? by Neil Gaiman, Joe Chill is seen as the bartender attending Batman's funeral (the funeral itself being a near death experience). Batman, who is observing the event accompanied by Catwoman, notes that Chill should be dead. Chill notes that he was there at the birth of Batman, so it is only fitting he should be there to witness the end.

The New 52
In 2011, DC Comics relaunched its entire line of monthly books, and rebooted the fictional continuity of its books in an initiative called "The New 52". An 18-year-old Bruce Wayne tracks Chill down and holds him at gunpoint, demanding to know who hired him to kill his parents. Chill, an alcoholic ne'er-do-well, responds that he just wanted Martha Wayne's pearls so he could buy alcohol and that he didn't even know who the Waynes were until the next day. Enraged that Chill killed his parents for no reason, Bruce prepares to kill him, but relents at the last minute when he realizes that his father would not have wanted that. After sparing Chill's life, Bruce Wayne leaves Gotham City and begins training to fight crime, vowing that he will stop criminals like Chill from harming anyone else.

Post-DC Rebirth
In 2016, DC Comics implemented another relaunch of its books called "DC Rebirth", which restored its continuity to a form much as it was prior to "The New 52". In the 2020 miniseries Batman: Three Jokers, a news report about the massacre of the final members of the Moxon Crime Family stated that they were accused of hiring Chill to kill Thomas and Martha Wayne, only for them to be exonerated when Chill confessed that he acted alone. It was also mentioned that Joe Chill is serving a life sentence at Blackgate Penitentiary.

Using the fingerprints from Judge Wade Walls' humanitarian trophy, Batman enters Blackgate Penitentiary to see Chill. After Batman finds that Chill is not in his cell, Batgirl informs him that Chill was moved to the infirmary ward because he is suffering from stage 4 cancer. Two versions of the Joker, Comedian Joker and Criminal Joker, later abduct Chill from the infirmary, where they torture him to get him to explain on camera why he murdered the Waynes.

Batman, Batgirl, and the Red Hood arrive at the theater where the two Jokers are holding Chill prisoner as a film plays of Chill confessing that he killed the Waynes because he thought they were rich elitists who didn't care about anyone but themselves, only to realize that he was wrong after he saw the young Bruce sobbing over their dead bodies. The Criminal Joker plans to dump Chill in a mixture of the rejuvenating chemicals from Ra's al Ghul's Lazarus Pit and his own Joker Venom in hopes of turning him into the "Ultimate Joker", but Batman saves Chill's life and forgives him for murdering his parents, in the process revealing his secret identity to him. After the death of the Criminal Joker and the surrender of the Comedian Joker, Bruce Wayne visits Chill on his death bed and shakes his hand. Chill dies peacefully, and Bruce finally finds closure over his parents' deaths.

Other versions

 * In Frank Miller's 1986 limited series Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Bruce Wayne finally resolves his feelings towards Chill (who is not named). While about to be mugged by street punks, Bruce initially fantasizes that the two amateur criminals are both Joe Chill, so he can take out his rage on them. They leave him alone, however, after realizing he would have fought them: "Look at him. He's into it. No fun when they're into it." Bruce realizes that Chill had not killed his parents for killing's sake, as the two punks wanted to do to him, and thus was not truly evil. "All he wanted was money," he thinks to himself. "He was sick and guilty over what he did. I was naïve enough to think him the lowest sort of man."
 * In the comics featuring the Crime Syndicate of America, it is revealed that on the Syndicate's alternate Earth, Joe Chill was a friend of Dr. Thomas Wayne. One night, a police officer wants to bring the elder Wayne in for questioning. When he refuses, the police officer suddenly opens fire, killing this Earth's version of Bruce and Martha Wayne. Chill comes out of an alleyway to discover the dead bodies and the Waynes' younger son Thomas Wayne Jr., leaves with him, blaming his father for his mother and brother's deaths, and seeing Chill as the only father figure he has left.
 * In the alternate universe of the 2011 storyline "Flashpoint", Joe Chill shoots and kills the young Bruce Wayne, and Thomas Wayne seeks to kill him to avenge his son. He locates Chill and attempts to inject him with a drug, but instead beats him to death in a vengeful fury. Afterwards, Thomas puts Chill's gun in a trophy display in the Batcave.
 * Joe Chill is featured in many Elseworld titles, including Superman: Speeding Bullets, Citizen Wayne, Batman: In Darkest Knight, Batman: Holy Terror, Batman of Arkham, JLA: Destiny, and Dark Knight Dynasty.
 * In Andrew Vachss' novel Batman: The Ultimate Evil, Chill (who is never seen) is revealed to have killed Bruce Wayne's parents on the orders of an international ring of pedophiles. They wanted to silence Bruce's mother Martha, who was investigating their network of sexual slavery and child pornography.
 * On the alternate world of Earth 2, as part of The New 52, Joe Chill is a hired assassin who shoots Thomas and Martha Wayne. Thomas survived the shooting and crushes Chill's skull in retaliation for the murder of his wife.

Television

 * Joe Chill appears in a flashback in The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians episode "The Fear", voiced by Michael Rye.
 * Joe Chill appears in a fantasy sequence in the Justice League Unlimited episode "For the Man Who Has Everything", voiced by an uncredited Kevin Conroy. After falling victim to a hallucinogenic plant called the Black Mercy, Batman becomes trapped in a fantasy where Thomas Wayne beats and disarms Chill before he can murder him and Martha until Wonder Woman frees him.
 * Joe Chill appears in the Batman: The Brave and the Bold episode "Chill of the Night!", voiced by Peter Onorati. This version is a hitman who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne on his boss Lew Moxon's behalf in retaliation for Thomas putting Moxon in jail. In the present, Chill has become an arms dealer selling weapons to supervillains. As part of a bet between the Phantom Stranger and the Spectre over whether Batman would, given the right circumstances, break his vow of never killing anyone, Batman locates and beats Chill before revealing his secret identity to him, but ultimately spares his life. Chill begs his latest clients for protection, but they turn on him upon learning he is indirectly responsible for Batman's existence. Batman saves Chill from them, but the Spectre manipulates the events of the fight so that Chill is crushed to death by falling rubble.
 * A mental projection of Joe Chill embodying Bruce Wayne's guilt over his parents' deaths appears in the Harley Quinn episode "Batman Begins Forever", voiced by Diedrich Bader.
 * Joe Chill appears in the Gotham Knights episode "A Chill in Gotham", portrayed by Doug Bradley. Sometime prior to the series and after murdering Thomas and Martha Wayne, he ended up on death row. On the day of his execution by the electric chair, he requests to speak with Bruce Wayne's adoptive son, Turner Hayes. Upon meeting him, Chill reveals the Court of Owls framed both of them for crimes they did not commit before he is executed.

Film

 * In the original script written by Tom Mankiewicz in 1983 for the film that eventually became Batman (1989), crime boss Rupert Thorne hires Joe Chill to murder Thomas Wayne, who is running against Thorne for city council. In Sam Hamm's original drafts, Chill is referred to as "Gunman". In the final version of the film, however, gangster Jack Napier - takes Chill's role as Thomas and Martha Wayne's killer, while Chill, according to producer Michael Uslan, became one of Napier's men who accompanied him in mugging the Waynes, was credited as "Other Mugger", and portrayed by Clyde Gatell. This change, due to Hamm participating in a screenwriters' strike, was reinserted into the script by director Tim Burton and screenwriter Warren Skaaren. After Napier fatally shoots Thomas and Martha, he almost shoots their son Bruce, but Chill advises him to flee before the police arrive.
 * Joe Chill appears in Batman Begins, portrayed by Richard Brake. This version claims to have resorted to mugging the Waynes because he was one of millions of Gothamites struggling with poverty amidst an economic depression. After serving 14 years in prison, Chill makes a deal to receive parole in return for testifying against a previous cellmate and mob boss Carmine Falcone. As Chill is escorted out of the courthouse, he is shot and killed by one of Falcone's assassins.
 * Joe Chill makes a cameo appearance in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, portrayed by an uncredited Damon Caro.
 * Joe Chill appears in a flashback in Justice League Dark: Apokolips War.

Video games

 * Joe Chill, credited as "Wayne family killer", is alluded to in a nightmare sequence in Batman: Arkham Asylum, voiced by Duane Shepherd.
 * Joe Chill appears in Batman: The Telltale Series, voiced by Jarion Monroe. This version worked as a hitman for Carmine Falcone and murdered Thomas and Martha Wayne on behalf of Gotham's corrupt mayor and an associate of Falcone's, Hamilton Hill. Chill is later imprisoned for his crime and stabbed to death by a fellow inmate hired by Hill to keep him quiet.
 * Joe Chill appears in Batman: Arkham VR, voiced by Glenn Wrage.

Miscellaneous

 * Joe Chill appears in The Batman Adventures #17. This version is Joseph Chiblonski, a career criminal who has lived in fear of Bruce Wayne plotting revenge against him ever since he killed Bruce's parents, to the point where he sees Bruce's face everywhere he looks. After completing a prison sentence for an unrelated crime, his paranoia worsens when he learns the police detective who originally worked on the Waynes' murder has discovered evidence that he was the killer. Chill attempts to murder the detective, only to be confronted by Batman. In the ensuing fight, Chill unmasks Batman, sees Bruce's face, and jumps off a balcony in terror. Batman tries to save Chill, whom he does not recognize, but the latter pushes him away and falls to his death.
 * Joe Chill's great-grandnephew Jake Chill, appears in Batman Beyond (vol. 2). Similarly to his great-granduncle, Jake indirectly contributed to Terry McGinnis becoming the new Batman after he killed the latter's father Warren McGinnis while working for Derek Powers' "Quiet Squad", a small team of Wayne-Powers security guards who served as Powers' personal assassins. Following Powers' disappearance, the Quiet Squad was fired, which left Jake destitute and stricken with guilt over Warren's murder. Forced to move into Neo-Gotham's slums, he descends into alcoholism and depression until he fends off a gang of thugs attacking his apartment. He finds a new purpose in life and becomes a superhero using his Wayne-Powers security equipment in an attempt to redeem himself. Calling himself the "Vigilante", Jake proves himself a dedicated ally to Batman until he is killed by the Jokerz. Upon learning Jake killed his father, Terry curses his late ally, but eventually comes to appreciate the latter's heroism. However, he also discovers Bruce Wayne knew Jake's secret and withheld it from him, leading to a rift developing between Terry and Wayne.
 * Joe Chill appears in Smallville Season 11 as a member of Intergang unconnected to Batman, who is later killed by Mr. Freeze.
 * An alternate universe variant of Joe Chill appears in the Justice League: Gods and Monsters prequel comic as Lew Moxon's right hand who becomes a vampire after being bitten by his universe's Batman, who later kills Chill.

title: Joe Chill


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California State Capitol

The California State Capitol is the seat of the California state government, located in Sacramento, the state capital of California. The building houses the chambers of the California State Legislature, made up of the Assembly and the Senate, along with the office of the governor of California. The Neoclassical structure, designed by Reuben S. Clark, was completed between 1861 and 1874. Located at the west end of Capitol Park and the east end of the Capitol Mall and Plaza de California, the building was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1973. The California State Capitol Museum is housed on the grounds of the capitol.

History

The structure was completed between 1860 and 1874, designed by architect Reuben S. Clark of Clark & Kenitzer, one of San Francisco's oldest architectural firms, founded in 1854. Between 1949 and 1952, the Capitol's apse was demolished to make way for the building's expansion with the construction of the East Annex. The offices of the governor of California are housed in the East Annex. The Capitol and grounds were listed on the office of the National Register of Historic Places in 1973, and listed as a California Historical Landmark in 1974, with a re-dedication on January 9, 1982, to commemorate the close of the bicentennial restoration project. The building underwent a major renovation known as the California State Capitol Restoration, from 1975 until 1982, involving an architectural restoration and structural reconstruction for earthquake safety. Although not generally considered earthquake country, Sacramento was hit by two earthquakes within days of each other in 1892 which damaged the Capitol.

In 2012, many protesters stormed the building and were arrested.

Exterior
The building is based on the U.S. Capitol building in Washington, D.C. The west facade ends in projecting bays, and a portico projects from the center of the building. At the base of the portico, seven granite archways brace and support the porch above. Eight fluted Corinthian columns line the portico. A cornice supports the pediment above depicting Minerva surrounded by Education, Justice, Industry and Mining.

Above the flat roof with balustrade are two drums supporting a dome. The first drum consists of a colonnade of Corinthian columns; the second, Corinthian pilasters. Large arched windows line the drum walls. The dome is 64 m high, and supports a lantern with a smaller dome capped with a gold-leafed orbed finial.

Interior
The California Senate chamber seats its forty members in a large chamber room decorated in red, which is a reference to the British House of Lords (also the upper house of a bicameral legislature). The chamber is entered through a second-floor corridor. From the coffered ceiling hangs an electric reproduction of the original gas chandelier. A hand-carved dais caps off a recessed bay framed by Corinthian columns.

The Latin phrase "Senatoris est civitatis libertatem tueri ("It is the duty of the Senator to guard the civil liberties of the Commonwealth") lines the cornice. A portrait of George Washington by Jane Stuart, the daughter of Gilbert Stuart, is on the wall above. The State Seal hangs above. Statues of the Roman goddess of wisdom Minerva once overlooked both chambers. Today, Minerva, sculpted by Michael H. Casey, appears only in the senate chambers.

Gilded Corinthian columns support the gallery above, and dark red curtains that can be drawn for privacy are tied back along the columns. High arched windows run along the bottom below rectangular pane windows. Behind the rostrum, there are two chairs with red velvet cushions, reserved for the president pro tempore of the senate and the speaker of the assembly, but they are never used.

The California Assembly chamber is located at the opposite end of the building. Its green tones are based on those of the British House of Commons, the lower house. The dais rests along a wall shaped like an "E", with the central projection housing the rostrum. Along the cornice is the Assembly motto, in Latin: Legislatorum est justas leges condere ("It is the duty of legislators to establish just laws").

California Capitol Museum

The California State Capitol Museum is a museum housed within the capitol and on the grounds of Capitol Park, run by California State Parks. The Capitol Museum includes the historic offices of the governor and legislature.

Capitol Park
The capitol's grounds are known as Capitol Park, an area of 10 undivided city blocks running from 10th to 16th and from L to N Streets. The entire Capitol Park area is included in the National Register historic district listing. Capitol Park contains numerous monuments and memorials, including the California Firefighters Memorial and El Soldado Monument.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: California State Capitol


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Talk:Combinatorial principles

Just a list?
Is this article intended to be just a list — If so should it be moved to "List of Combinatorial principles"? Or is this just an outline for a article on these principles? Paul August ☎ 17:25, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Infinitary "combinatorial principles"
There is a set-theoretical notion of "combinatorial principle", which should probably get its own article combinatorial principle (set theory) or infinitary combinatorial principle (with a link from this article). I am not sure what the proper definition of these "set-theoretical" or "infinitary" combinatorial principles should be, and if this is defined in any textbooks. The archetypal combinatorial principle is probably Diamondsuit. Other combinatorial principles (such as club or square; there is also spade, stick, and many others) share the following properties:
 * They postulate the existence of a certain object C...
 * often C is a sequence of uncountable length, sometimes class length
 * ... which is immensely helpful in analyzing a structure S
 * (e.g. S is the set of subsets, or subsets of a certain kind, of a given set)
 * "analyzing" often refers to constructions by transfinite induction.

I am not sure if all the following (which have the properties I mentioned) are called "combinatorial principles":
 * CH, GCH, SCH (predates the name "combinatorial principle"?);
 * 1) V=L, V=L[x] (not "combinatorial" enough?)
 * 2) existence of 0# (not uncountable?)

--Aleph4 21:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

 * It seems to me that CH, GCH, and SCH probably count as being in the same ballpark. V=L implies all the things we usually want to call infinitary combinatorial principles, but it seems a little on the abstract side to say that it is one itself. The existence of 0# strikes me as going in the opposite direction: It should be true, whereas diamond and square and so on should be false. The sequences posited by diamond and square are dei ex machina, things that just happen to guess right without any reason that they ought to be able to. 0# on the other hand is a "concrete" sort of thing that ought to exist if the universe is big enough and rich enough. --Trovatore 23:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I should clarify that I have really two questions: (An answer to "1" should also answer "2", but perhaps enough answers to "2" will help us find an answer to "1".)
 * 1) What is the definition of "combinatorial principle"? (This definitely needs a reference, but I do not know one)
 * 2) Decide for each concrete statement whether it is or is not a "combinatorial principle".   (Easy to find references callind diamond and square "combinatorial principles")

I do not think that "truth" is relevant in answering "1" (besides the fact that "truth" in set theory is POV). Both ZFC and NF are "set-theoretical axiom systems", even though you and I "know" ZFC is true and NF is not. But you are right that the uniqueness of 0# puts it in a different category than diamond and square. --Aleph4 17:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

 * As far as I know, which isn't very far, there is no generally accepted abstract definition of "infinitary combinatorial principle". I wasn't suggesting that truth per se should be a defining aspect of it (certainly there could be true combinatorial principles and also false ones) but trying, perhaps not very successfully, to explain my sense that the existence of 0# was not merely not an example of things like diamond and square, but an example of something opposite to them. And that sense could, of course, itself be wrong. --Trovatore 17:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

In the seventies when we learned to use diamond, we called it, and its variants "combinatorial principles" with no exact definition for the phrase (BTW it was never called diamondsuit, just diamond). I guess, Aleph4's description covers what we felt under this expression, so for example, Shelah's various black box and guessing club principles ARE combinatorial principles, I would also include MA, too, and PFA, MM are certainly not. Kope 14:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Principles or axioms?
What is the status of these principles from an axiomatic point of view? (I think this would be a useful specification to include in the article.)--5.2.200.163 (talk) 14:45, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Generating function
Why call it the sum of infinite polynomial when polynomials are defined as finite and what it's describing already has a name, series? It's called series everywhere else from what I can tell. Example: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GeneratingFunction.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itchyjunk (talk • contribs) 14:40, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Combinatorial principles


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Cochran Memorial United Methodist Church

Philip G. Cochran Memorial United Methodist Church is a historic Methodist church building located in Dawson, Fayette County, Pennsylvania, United States. It was built by Sarah B. Cochran between 1922 and 1927, and is a cruciform solid stone structure in the Late Gothic Revival style. It measures 130 feet by 161 feet. It features a crossing tower and steeple.

It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1982. It is located in the Dawson Historic District.


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Talk:Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego)

Request for Comment: Motive
Should "Dislike for Mondays" be the official motive given in the infobox? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

My arguments and new information which resolves the issue altogether: (This was originally posted here)

1. Stated motive =\= Actual motive

2. "Dislike for Mondays" is not a possible motive for a shooting, that simply makes no sense. Arguably "To liven up the day" could be a motive but that's still a stretch

3. She only stated that as her motive in one single instance immediately after the shooting—what was revealed or discussed about her motive since then? Has nobody asked what the courts or legal system have had to say about her motive?

Unfortunately nobody here has done even a single Google search worth of research before commenting

In a 1993 televised interview, when asked about her infamous statement about Mondays, she said "I don't remember saying that. Right now we're trying to find evidence that I did say that. I'd like to hear the tape. It really influenced how people saw me and thought about the whole case." and "On PCP you're liable to say anything." Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-lMzatv6Weg Timestamp ~2:40

Also an expert on school shooters wrote the following: Based on the available information, it appears that virtually every claim Brenda Spencer has made during her parole hearings has been false. [...] She claimed she shot them due to hallucinations of commandos attacking her. She claimed she didn't shoot them; the S.W.A.T. team did. She claimed she fired the rifle but didn't aim and therefore had not intended to hurt anybody. She claimed she had taken so many substances that she blacked out and therefore had no idea what she had done. She claimed she only shot to draw police to the house so that they would kill her." Source: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Langman/publication/308221608_Brenda_Spencer_Sorting_Out_the_Contradictions/links/57dec91908ae4e6f184c2d36/Brenda-Spencer-Sorting-Out-the-Contradictions.pdf?origin=publication_detail

IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 11:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Yes. She was asked why she committed the shooting, and she said it was because she didn't like Mondays. We shouldn't be in the business of deciding which motives for mass shooting are "valid" (I don't think any of them are). What makes sense to us can be very different from what makes sense to the shooter. Also, "mental illness" isn't a motive: It's a condition you're in that can influence your motive, but many mentally ill people do not commit violent crime. It's like if we added "being white" as a motive to every white nationalist mass shooting. Koopinator (talk) 13:11, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it really reasonable to trust a criminal's stated motive without any corroborating evidence? Especially where mental disturbance is suspected?
 * IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 13:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Considering there's no motive for the shooting, the usage of "dislike for Mondays" is a sound fit. This is a Wikipedia article, not a court document. The media has portrayed this shooting in the same manner because of the lack of motive. – The Grid  ( talk )  15:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that since there is no motive for the shooting, the motive should be declared "dislike for Mondays". I don't see how this is a rational argument. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Strong no That was a flippant remark made to a reporter. She's also repeatedly changed her story over the years. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:02, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

 * No with a strong dose of WTF?. An off-the-cuff comment by a psychotic perpetrator is not the literal motive for a murder, any more than the Son of Sam's motive was "a dog told me to." Zaathras (talk) 02:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * And could I ask for your opinion on a solution? To remove the Motive section from the infobox or to have something like "Undetermined" as the motive? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * For example 1984 New York City Subway shooting has as motive "Disputed; Goetz claimed self-defense". We could do something similar here, along the lines of "Unknown; Spencer attributed it to a dislike of Mondays". ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 15:43, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Omit the parameter entirely, as there is no motive. Zaathras (talk) 18:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If a consensus has been made, the request for comment needs to be closed BEFORE the pertinent edits are made. NJZombie (talk) 23:42, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * A consensus has not been reached because people are not engaging in discussion. Especially yourself @NJZombie. You've never explained why you think "dislike for Mondays" should be the official motive, and you've repeatedly reverted its removal even after it has been proven with sources that it was not the actual motive. I'm not an experienced editor and so I'm not sure how to proceed here. Any advice @Zaathras? Also, it's ridiculous this edit is even controversial in the first place. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * My participation is not required to reach consensus. My initial revert of your removal of the item was due to your reasoning that her motif was mental illness or misogyny which may be underlying causes and not motives. As an admittedly inexperienced editor, you should be reading up on the policy and procedural pages suggested before continuously assuming as you did when you reverted simply because you mentioned it on the talk page and again when the RfC wasn’t closed. NJZombie (talk) 00:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't you think it's wrong to add/restore content which has been proven false? And you really can't give any guidance on how to proceed eh? Your contributions here have been the opposite of productive. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:18, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What I think is wrong is your inability or refusal to learn and follow the procedures that productive Wikipedia users learn and follow. NJZombie (talk) 01:30, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh please. Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy and please do not bite the newcomers. People do not have to read many thousands of words of instructions before they can contribute to the discussion. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 09:54, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Nobody bit anybody and nobody said anything about not being allowed to contribute to the discussion. They made a change that was questioned and were directed to post an RfC. They posted a comment instead and when nobody responded in several hours to that, they just made the change again, citing a discussion that didn’t happen. When they finally did post the RfC, they changed it again as soon as the discussion swayed in their direction. They were simply asked to not make the change until the discussion is closed. Which you could have even done without reading “thousands of words” at WP:RFCEND. NJZombie (talk) 12:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I was never directed to post an RfC... I had to figure it out for myself that that was the correct way to proceed. Also, I didn't remove the information again "as soon as the discussion swayed in [my] direction", I did so after I proved with reliable sources that the information was false. See Talk:Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:01, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You absolutely were directed toward how to gain consensus as seen here. RfC is part of that page you were directed to. Also, you deciding that you’ve provided proof and changing it is not how the process ends. It doesn’t just change because you’ve added what you’ve decided is undisputed proof. All this time you’re spending arguing with me, by the way, could be spent closing the request or finding someone who can. NJZombie (talk) 16:15, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * How can I close the request if consensus hasn't been reached? I've been trying to achieve a consensus but it's hard when people are not engaging in discussion. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * You’ve, had numerous people involved in the discussion, many of which agree with you. Try WP:RFCEND. NJZombie (talk) 16:52, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * So you're implying that you think consensus has been reached? Why would you continue to revert the edit then? "Consensus is typically reached as a natural and inherent product of the wiki-editing process; generally someone makes a change to a page content, and then everyone who reads the page has an opportunity to either leave the page as it is or change it." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 16:57, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I’m not implying anything. I first reverted your edit because your reasoning want valid to me. It wasn’t because I’m devoted to keeping the information itself. This is far from the first time someone has tried to make the same edit, although typically with no reasoning whatsoever. As it’s been an issue before, you were steered toward discussing it on the talk page. The person opposing the change is not required to participate. So stop worrying about my participation in the actual discussion. If a fellow editor, typically an uninvolved one, feels that the matter has reached a consensus, it gets closed and the edit is made. The participants can all agree that the discussion is over and agree to consensus that the matter is resolved. If no consensus is made at all, it typically stays as it was. NJZombie (talk) 17:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * 1. "The person opposing the change is not required to participate. So stop worrying about my participation in the actual discussion." Is there anything in the guidelines that says this? Everything I've been reading seems to suggest the opposite. 2. You continue to not address my claim (backed up by reliable sources) that the information you keep restoring has been proven wrong. If you don't agree that it has been proven wrong then you should explain why. If you do agree that it has been proven wrong then you should not be restoring it. From Editing policy: "As long as any of the facts or ideas added to an article would belong in the "finished" article, they should be retained." As far as I'm aware, "procedure" is not a valid reason to revert a constructive edit. Revert only when necessary, Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Please respond to this so we can resolve this dispute @NJZombie. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look like there is much to resolve here. A non-admin close to any discussion is someone who does not participate with the discussion which a summary can be seen at WP:NACINV. – The Grid  ( talk )  12:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with supporting the removal of the “Dislike for Mondays” “motive” but you should be aware of WP:BRD and WP:EW. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 01:44, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

 * No I agree with the no votes and what was said by IOHANNVSVERVS and don’t have much to add. The parameter in the infobox should either be “Unknown”, “Disputed” or omitted. I’m leaning towards something like “Unknown; Spencer attributed it to a dislike of Mondays in a phone call to a reporter” like Jochem says but that may be too wordy. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 01:38, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * But Spencer had multiple conflicting statements of motive. Why should one be given more prominence than any other? She also recanted the "dislike for Mondays" motive, and it was likely never a serious statement of motive in the first place. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 02:53, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If that’s the case based on RSes then maybe something like “Unknown(or disputed); Spencer has given multiple conflicting statements.” would be better. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 07:27, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It may be better to put this detail in a footnote if mentioning it as unknown or disputed. Mellk (talk) 05:14, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Comment If there are sources, then say "disputed". If not, "alleged" or blank is better than "unknown". Senorangel (talk) 02:44, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't think the motive in the infobox should be based on such a comment that was made (unless there are sources that describe this as the motive for the attack) so it would be better to just omit or mention this as disputed in that case. Mellk (talk) 05:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

 * No - that passage "I don't like Mondays" was cherry-picked from what she actually said to the reporter, which was: "I just wanted to. I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day. I shot a pig, I think, and I want to shoot some more." So according to that quote, her motive could have been because she "wanted to" or to "liven up the day" or she wanted to "shoot some pigs", which apparently she fantasized about per this article from February 9, 1979 and she talked again about killing police. And then there is the matter of her constantly changing her story at parole hearings. Since we have no real evidence of her motive, it should state unknown in the infobox.

 * On another note, I didn't see any mention of this in the article - Sniper Victims Get $350,000. There is precedent for it being included, see: Columbine High lawsuits, Sandy Hook legal proceedings and Parkland High civil lawsuits. Just a wild guess on my part, but it is probably the first modern day lawsuit filed in relation to a school shooting. 🎃  Isaidnoway (talk) 23:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm with the Infobox showing nothing. This probably could have been done without a RFC. – The Grid  ( talk )  00:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Comment NO! That description risks trivializing a horrible event in which people died. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 20:18, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

 * No per the others above, and the solution to this "problem" is to remove the Motive parameter from the infobox. Some1 (talk) 23:12, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Comment: When we say this is a stupid reason, what are we comparing it to? It seems to me like any time somebody does something like this, the reason is necessarily stupid, res ipsa loquitur. There is no such thing as a really smart, intelligent reason for murdering random people. If they were intelligent they wouldn't do that, so I think we have to take their word for it.  jp × g 🗯 05:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * so I think we have to take their word for it. People can lie about their motives. Some1 (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

 * No way. —  Sadko  (words are wind)  21:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Sexual Orientation
The article confusingly briefly references a "girlfriend" as a cause for self-harm/suicide attempt; this is ambiguous because while it would usually imply she is lesbian, it is also sometimes used for other relationships. Some googling suggests that she has publicly stated that she is lesbian, but nothing in the article covers this. If this is the case and it's been relevant to her prison life, then it should be appropriately referenced and the usual metadata added like. --Gwern (contribs) 16:53 20 December 2023 (GMT)

None of the homosexuality claims are sourced so I removed all of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.57.2.97 (talk) 15:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Motive thing
I made the original motive edit, sorry for wreaking havoc guys I just came back to this article My original thought process is just that a motive is your reason for doing a crime and her reason was clearly not a dislike for Mondays so I removed it to minimize confusion Not experienced with Wikipedia edits :( Blinkygoober (talk) 07:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Don't apologize, you were right to remove it. Thanks for your contribution. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 14:40, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 8 February 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved per nom. Two editors favored the nominated title, with two others favoring 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting, although not a hard "support", a third the nom, derp20:14, 16 February 2024 (UTC) noted that the year is atypical, so per WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE, I am choosing the nom for now, and another discussion can optionally be opened later to settle on whether the second option was a better choice. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE  17:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) → Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) – Remove “1979” from the title as including the name of the city is an adequate identifying factor. MountainDew20 (talk) 00:56, 8 February 2024 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Rename per nom, and also to avoid WP:MISPLACED problems. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:12, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I wonder if 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting would be more in line with WP:NCWWW and WP:NATURAL, along with expansion of the hatnote. Mdewman6 (talk) 23:06, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting seems a good suggestion. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:09, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: This page was only recently renamed (Nov 6, 2023) from Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego) to 1979 Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego), with edit summary "Per WP:NCE: when, where, and what happened. Also, per many other article titles for many other school shootings across decades." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:08, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The year is usually not added in school shootings as it is a specific location that can distinguish from other shootings. MountainDew20 (talk) 03:15, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


text:
Benzoin condensation

The benzoin addition is an addition reaction involving two aldehydes. The reaction generally occurs between aromatic aldehydes or glyoxals, and results in formation of an acyloin. In the classic example, benzaldehyde is converted to benzoin.

The benzoin condensation was first reported in 1832 by Justus von Liebig and Friedrich Wöhler during their research on bitter almond oil. The catalytic version of the reaction involving cyanide was developed by Nikolay Zinin in the late 1830s.

Reaction mechanism
The reaction is catalyzed by nucleophiles such as a cyanide or an N-heterocyclic carbene (usually thiazolium salts). The reaction mechanism was proposed in 1903 by A. J. Lapworth. In the first step in this reaction, the cyanide anion (as sodium cyanide) reacts with the aldehyde in a nucleophilic addition. Rearrangement of the intermediate results in polarity reversal of the carbonyl group, which then adds to the second carbonyl group in a second nucleophilic addition. Proton transfer and elimination of the cyanide ion affords benzoin as the product. This is a reversible reaction, which means that the distribution of products is determined by the relative thermodynamic stability of the products and starting material.

In this reaction, one aldehyde donates a proton and one aldehyde accepts a proton. Some aldehydes can only donate protons, such as 4-dimethylaminobenzaldehyde, whereas benzaldehyde is both a proton acceptor and donor. In this way it is possible to synthesise mixed benzoins, i.e. products with different groups on each half of the product. However, care should be taken to match a proton donating aldehyde with a proton accepting aldehyde to avoid undesired homo-dimerization.

Scope
The reaction can be extended to aliphatic aldehydes with base catalysis in the presence of thiazolium salts; the reaction mechanism is essentially the same. These compounds are important in the synthesis of heterocyclic compounds. The analogous 1,4-addition of an aldehyde to an enone is called the Stetter reaction.

In biochemistry, the coenzyme thiamine is responsible for biosynthesis of acyloin-like compounds utilizing the benzoin addition. This coenzyme also contains a thiazolium moiety, which on deprotonation becomes a nucleophilic carbene.

The asymmetric version of this reaction has been performed by utilizing chiral thiazolium and triazolium salts. Triazolium salts were found to give greater enantiomeric excess than thiazolium salts. An example is shown below.

Since the products of the reaction are thermodynamically controlled, the retro benzoin addition can be synthetically useful. If a benzoin or acyloin can be synthesized by another method, then they can be converted into the component ketones using cyanide or thiazolium catalysts. The reaction mechanism is the same as above, but it occurs in the reverse direction. This can allow the access of ketones otherwise difficult to produce.

title: Benzoin condensation


text:
Chambertin

Chambertin is an Appellation d'origine contrôlée (AOC) and Grand Cru vineyard for red wine in the Côte de Nuits subregion of Burgundy, with Pinot noir as the main grape variety. Chambertin is located within the commune of Gevrey-Chambertin, and it is situated approximately in the centre of a group of nine Grand Cru vineyards all having "Chambertin" as part of their name. The other eight vineyards, which all are separate AOCs, have hyphenated names where Chambertin appears with a prefix, such as Chapelle-Chambertin. Chambertin itself is situated above (to the west of) the Route des Grands Crus. It borders on Chambertin-Clos de Bèze in the north, Griotte-Chambertin and Charmes-Chambertin in the east (across the road) and the Latricières-Chambertin in the south. The AOC was created in 1937.

Of the surrounding vineyards, wines from Chambertin-Clos de Bèze may also be sold under the Chambertin AOC. However, Chambertin-Clos de Bèze has a very good reputation on its own, so this is not widely practiced. The other seven "hyphenated Chambertin" Grand Cru vineyards do not have this right to use the Chambertin AOC.

Wine style
As with most of Burgundy's vineyards, both Chambertin and Clos de Bèze have had numerous owners, twenty-three and eighteen respectively. Unfortunately, quality varies from producer to producer and, although Chambertin has been called "King of Wines," less accomplished winemakers do not always produce wines that fully live up to that reputation. The quality of wines from Clos de Bèze is considered higher and more consistent than those from Chambertin. The best wines from these two vineyards are quite powerful. They have concentrated fruit flavors, intense, rich, perfumed aromas, and long aging capabilities.

History
The Clos de Bèze vineyard was initially cleared and planted back in the 7th century by monks from the Abbey of Bèze, which owned the land. Legend has it that it was not until the 12th century that Chambertin itself was planted by a Monsieur Bertin, who felt that he could also make good wines if he grew the same grape varieties as his famous next-door neighbor. His vineyard was called Champ de Bertin ("Bertin's field") and later shortened to Chambertin.

In 1702, Claude Jobert acquired both vineyards uniting both Chambertin and Clos de Bèze.

The Chambertin wines were one of Napoleon's favorites and it is said that he insisted that they be available to him even during his various military campaigns. According to Hazlitt, Chambertin was the only wine Napoleon drank during his reign as Emperor, "and he seldom drank it pure."

Chambertin is the brief focus of a joke featured in the 1951 film Love Nest which costarred Marilyn Monroe in a supporting lead, though she is not present in the scene where the vintage is explicitly mentioned. The scene is set in a nightclub restaurant where "elderly Casanova" Charley Patterson (Frank Fay) is once again attempting to swindle money from one of the many widowed dowagers he regularly courts. After they place their orders the waiter asks the couple if they would care for champagne with their dinner to which Charley declares nonchalantly; "Champagne is for peasants". The waiter then suggests Chambertin and adds that Charley has "excellent taste." Charley's date, oblivious and entranced, remarks that she does "admire a man who knows how to order..."

Production
In 2008, 13.22 ha of vineyard surface was in production for Chambertin AOC, and 437 hectoliter of wine was produced under the Chambertin designation, corresponding to slightly less than 60,000 bottles.

AOC regulations
The main grape variety for Chambertin is Pinot noir. The AOC regulations also allow up to 15 per cent total of Chardonnay, Pinot blanc and Pinot gris as accessory grapes, but this is practically never used for any Burgundy Grand Cru vineyard. The allowed base yield is 35 hectoliter per hectare, a minimum planting density of 9,000 vines per hectare is required as well as a minimum grape maturity of 11.5 per cent potential alcohol.

Producers
Of the producers in Chambertin, the wines of Domaine Armand Rousseau generally command the highest prices. Rousseau owns 2.15 ha in Chambertin, as well as a total of 4.38 ha in four of the other "Chambertin" Grands Crus.

Other vineyard owners with more than 1 ha in Chambertin are Domaine Jean-Louis Trapet, Domaine Rossignol-Trapet and Camus Père et Fils. Between 0.5 ha and 1 ha each is held by Louis Latour, Domaine Jacques Prieur and Domaine Leroy.

Overview of the "Chambertin" vineyards
Together, the nine "Chambertin" Grand Cru vineyards of Gevrey-Chambertin form a continuous area which roughly forms a rectangle 2 km by 500 m in size, situated just south of the town of Gevrey-Chambertin itself. In three of the vineyards, the producers are free to choose between two Grand Cru appellations.

In general, Chambertin and Chambertin-Clos de Bèze are seen as one notch above the other seven Grands Crus in quality. This is also reflected in a small difference in the allowed yield, where Chambertin and Chambertin-Clos de Bèze are restricted to a base yield of 35 hl/ha, while the other seven are allowed 37 hl/ha.

title: Chambertin


text:
DC-UK

DC-UK was a Dreamcast video game magazine published by Future plc in the United Kingdom. Its first issue was published in August 1999 and it ran until 2001. The magazine was launched by ex-Edge deputy editor Caspar Field, who edited the first seven issues. After his departure to launch the children's Dreamcast magazine, Mr Dreamcast, associate editor Keith Stuart took over until issue 19. At this point, then-deputy editor Lee Hart took over for the single issue that remained.

History
At launch, DC-UK changed the prevailing Future plc games magazine running order of the time, which went news - previews - features - reviews - tips - letters, by rearranging some of the major sections. This resulted in a running order of reviews - news - features - previews - tips - letters. The magazine also offered some additional content, such as interviews with game developers and attempts at unusual features, such as creating cocktails themed around famous Sega characters. Following Field's departure, DC-UK reverted to the standard Future plc format, which was used until the magazine's closure. The upbeat feel of the magazine, however, continued throughout every issue, and prior to being revised the title was nominated for the 1999 InDin Magazine of the Year award.

Sales of DC-UK, particularly during the early months of its existence, were strong – often coming close to those of the Official Dreamcast Magazine (UK) despite the latter selling with a cover-mounted disc featuring demo versions of games. DC-UK had in fact started life as Future Publishing's pitch for the rights to the UK Dreamcast magazine license. However, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE), from which Future held the rights to the Official UK PlayStation Magazine, objected, leading Future to withdraw its bid for the Dreamcast deal.

In March 2000 Future published the first issue of the short-lived DC-UK spin-off title DC-TIPS. Both DC-TIPS and DC-UK's sales began to suffer during early 2000 as British public interest in Dreamcast declined during the run-up to PlayStation 2's November 2000 arrival in Europe.

During the magazine's run it was supported by a website at dc-uk.co.uk. This closed on 8 March 2001, shortly after the magazine's last issue had gone on sale, with the message 'Goodbye folks!'.

DC-TIPS
DC-TIPS was a magazine dedicated to game guides and tips for the Dreamcast and each issue was on average 128 pages long, for the price of £3.99. The magazine was launched as a companion to DC-UK and the two magazines were offered to readers in a special combination subscription. Issue #1 was published in March 2000, 7 months after "parent" magazine. The magazine was cancelled before issue #4 went to press, with most of the latest issue completed. Some of the commissioned work for future issues included Star Wars: Episode I Racer and Resident Evil – Code: Veronica.

The magazine was launched by Will Groves who was editor for the lifetime of the magazine. Richard Owen joined as the full-time staff writer halfway through the creation of the first issue. In charge of art was Brad Merrett and the designer was Efrain Mendoza. Contributors to the magazine included Dean Mortlock, Nadine Pittam, Daniel Glenfield, Sally Meddings and Jon Billington.

The colour orange was prevalent throughout the magazine, complimenting DC-UK's prevalent blue. It is worth noting that the Dreamcast logo in Europe was blue, and in the US and Japan it was orange. This made orange an obvious choice for DC-TIPS given that the design was so closely tied to its parent DC-UK.

Although its run of magazines was short, DC-TIPS covered a relatively large number of games throughout its pages. The magazine would begin with a set of featured games with guides taking up between 5 (Sega Bass Fishing) and 20+ pages (MDK2). At the back of the magazine was a section named "Listings" which had tips for most games on the Dreamcast system. These tips would be between a short paragraph and six pages. The style in the Listings section was much more compact than in the front of the magazine.

Some of the games featured included:

 * Chu Chu Rocket
 * Crazy Taxi
 * Evolution
 * JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
 * MDK2 (Cover Art)
 * NBA 2K
 * Power Stone
 * Rayman 2
 * Resident Evil 2
 * Sega Bass Fishing
 * Shadow Man
 * Slave Zero
 * Sonic Adventure
 * Soul Calibur
 * Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation (Cover Art)

title: DC-UK


text:
Walter Sims

Walter Arthur Sims (September 19, 1880 – November 26, 1953) was an American politician.

Biography
Born in Dawson County, Georgia, (near Ball Ground), he was the son of John Newton Sims (1848 – 1919). The family moved to Buckhead in 1892, and Walter was educated in public schools.

He graduated from the University of Georgia in 1899 and began a twenty-five-year law career in Atlanta. In 1903, he married Edna Belle Cheshire, daughter of Napoleon Cheshire (after whom Cheshire Bridge Road is named). He served as councilman of Atlanta's Ninth Ward.

He was twice elected mayor of Atlanta (both times defeating James L. Key) promising to clean up the police department after a gambling scandal which also included an anti-Catholic platform. During his tenure, the Spring Street Viaduct was completed, the north half of which still stands after the southern half was rebuilt in 1996. He also built two new schools, not from bonds but from general revenue, and he also paid off a $1,000,000 deficit left over from the previous Key administration.

In 1923, he proposed building an airport, sending alderman William Hartsfield to find a suitable location. Candler Field proved to be the best, and in 1925 the city leased it (the first five years were free) and the next year won a lucrative U.S. Mail route. In 1924, he opened the city's Municipal Market (today's Sweet Auburn Curb Market).

Sims died at his home in Atlanta on November 26, 1953. He is buried in Arlington Memorial Park, in Sandy Springs, Georgia.

title: Walter Sims


text: File:St Barts logo.png

title: File:St Barts logo.png


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Poi (performance art)

Poi is a performing art and also the name of the equipment used for its performance. As a skill toy, poi is an object or theatrical prop used for dexterity play or an object manipulation. As a performance art, poi involves swinging tethered weights through a variety of rhythmical and geometric patterns. Poi artists may also sing or dance while swinging their poi. Poi can be made from various materials with different handles, weights, and effects (such as fire).

Poi originated with the Māori people of New Zealand, where it is still practised today. Poi has also gained a following in other countries. The expansion of poi culture has led to a significant evolution of the styles practised, the tools used, and the definition of the word "poi".

Māori culture
In the Māori language, poi can mean the physical objects used by the dancers, the choreography itself, or the accompanying music. In Māori culture, poi performance is usually practised by women. Some legends indicate that it was first used by men to develop wrist flexibility for the use of hand weapons such as the club-like patu, mere, and kotiate, but recent academic study has found no evidence to confirm this story.

Māori poi come in two forms: short, with strings equal to the length of the fingertips to the wrist; and long, with strings equal to the distance from fingertips to shoulder. A performance includes storytelling and singing in conjunction with choreographed poi routines and is often presented alongside other disciplines, such as waiata a ringa, haka and tītī tōrea (included in kapa haka performances). Poi feature in the 1980s hit song "Poi E".

Traditional construction

Originally, poi were most commonly made from harakeke (New Zealand flax, Phormium tenax) and raupō (Typha orientalis). Makers stripped and scraped flax to provide the muka (inner flax fibre), which was twisted into two strands to make the taura (cord) as well as the aho (ties). A large knot was tied at one end of the cord, around which the core was formed from the pithy middle of the raupō stem. Dampened strips of raupō stems were then wrapped around the ball and tied off around the cord, forming the covering. The other end of the cord was often decorated with a mukamuka, a tassel made from muka formed around a smaller knot. Occasionally, smaller tassels called poi piu were affixed to the base of the poi ball. Construction and design varied widely depending on regional, tribal, and personal preferences.

Another variety of poi is poi tāniko. In this construction, the outer shell was made of finely woven muka using a pattern based on a fishing net; these poi sometimes included strands that were dyed yellow to form a diamond pattern known as Te Karu ō te Atua (the Eye of God).

In the late 19th century and the first half of the 20th century, a cottage industry developed from the manufacture of raupō poi for sale to tourists, especially in the Rotorua area. Tourist-friendly variations included miniature poi that could be worn in buttonholes and as earrings.

Today, most performance poi are made from durable and readily available modern materials. Cores are often made of foam or crumpled paper, while skins consist of plastic or loomed fabrics, such as tulle. Tassels are usually made of wool.

Modern poi
Modern poi coexists with traditional Māori poi and enjoys a broader, worldwide audience.

Traditional Māori poi is generally performed in group choreography at cultural events, with vocal and musical accompaniment. By contrast, modern poi is generally performed by individuals, without singing and with less structured choreography. The tools and styles used are more varied. Many people first encounter poi in the form of fire spinning, but fire spinning is just one form of this highly varied art.

Modern poi borrows significantly from other physical arts, including various schools of dance and many object manipulation arts. Poi is practised around the world and can often be seen at large festivals like Burning Man and the European Juggling Convention.

Unlike many physical arts, learning poi does not usually involve formal education. Most spinners learn from each other or teach themselves using DVDs or online resources. A strong sense of community and self-teaching are key elements of modern poi.

Practice poi
Beginners often learn using a simple pair of practice poi, which are typically constructed from soft materials such as socks or stockings that are weighted with soft household objects such as bean bags, juggling balls, balloons filled with legumes, or small toys. Simple poi can also be constructed from tennis balls and lengths of rope.

More advanced practice poi models can include swivels (for orbital-type tricks), weighted handles (for tosses), or incorporate contact stage balls to enable the spinner to execute contact poi moves (i.e., rolls and fishtails).

Performance poi
Performers often use poi with bright, contrasting colors to enhance aesthetics and emphasize patterns. Some performance poi also incorporate tails or streamers for visual effect.

Glow poi
Poi can be performed in the dark to dramatic effect when spinners use poi containing a light source, such as UV-sensitive materials, LED lights, or chemical glow sticks. Glowstringing, or using glowsticks swung from shoelaces, is popular at festivals and raves. It is also noted that while poi focuses on the manipulation of the head (the other side of the cord/chain from where you are holding), glowstringing focuses on the manipulation of the cord.

Fire poi
Fire poi use wicks made from Kevlar or Technora or another flame resistant material for the weighted ends. The wicks are soaked in fuel, set on fire, and then spun for dramatic effect.

Health benefits of poi
A scientific study conducted at the University of Auckland showed significant improvements in grip strength, balance, and attention after one month of poi practice.

title: Poi (performance art)


text:
Zhang Lu (Han dynasty)

Zhang Lu (died 216), courtesy name Gongqi, was a  Chinese politician, religious leader, and warlord who lived during the late Eastern Han dynasty. He was the third generation Celestial Master, a Taoist religious order. He controlled a state in the Hanzhong region, which he had named Hanning (漢寧) until 215, when he surrendered to Cao Cao, whom he would serve until his death one year later.

Warlord of Hanzhong

Upon the death of his father, Zhang Heng (张衡), Zhang Lu inherited control of the Celestial Masters religious group, and therefore became its third leader (the first was Zhang Lu's grandfather Zhang Daoling). The religion enjoyed its greatest popularity in Yi Province (covering present-day Sichuan and Chongqing), but when Zhang Lu took control of the group, it was being challenged in the area by a shamanistic religion led by Zhang Xiu (張脩, no family relation to Zhang Lu).

Against this background, both Zhang Lu and Zhang Xiu were abruptly ordered by Liu Yan to go together to attack Su Gu (蘇固), the Han-appointed administrator of Hanzhong Commandery, and take over his territory. However, having his own designs, Zhang Lu killed Zhang Xiu and took command of his troops and religious followers before he went off for the campaign against Hanzhong. He successfully managed to defeat Su Gu, and upon taking control of Hanzhong, renamed the region Hanning (漢寧), ruling it by the principles of his religion. It is worth noting that although he nominally followed the orders of Liu Yan, when Liu Zhang succeeded him many years later, Zhang Lu refused to follow Liu Zhang's orders. As a result, Liu Zhang ordered the execution of Zhang Lu's mother, younger brothers and many other family members.

It is said that Zhang Lu's rule over his territory was for its time very humane and civilised. Roads were built throughout the territory with rest stops and foods provided free of charge. The taxes and donations taken from the people were not to be used for amusement, but instead for the support of the common people. In addition, under his leadership was a powerful army and strong defences such that neither Cao Cao nor Li Jue could easily defeat him. The Han central government recognised Zhang Lu's authority over Hanzhong Commandery and appointed him as General of the Household Who Guards Civilians (鎮民中郎將) and the Administrator of Hanning (漢寧太守). According to the Records of the Three Kingdoms, Zhang Lu received a jeweled seal from the common people of his realm, which was a sign from Heaven that he was to become a king. Many of his subordinates urged him to declare himself king, but his adviser Yan Pu (閻圃) warned that to do so would bring disaster. Zhang Lu heeded Yan Pu's advice.

Surrender to Cao Cao
In 211, Zhong Yao suggested to the warlord Cao Cao, who was the de facto head of the Han central government, to launch an invasion of Hanzhong Commandery. Cao Cao heeded his advice and mobilised his forces. However, the warlords Ma Chao and Han Sui, who were based in the Guanzhong region in between Cao Cao's territories and Hanzhong Commandery, thought that Cao Cao wanted to attack them so they started a revolt against the Han central government, leading to the Battle of Tong Pass and subsequent battles. Although Cao Cao's forces emerged victorious against the Guanzhong warlords, they were in no condition to continue attacking Hanzhong Commandery so they retreated. Ma Chao escaped to Hanzhong Commandery after his defeat and pledged allegiance to Zhang Lu, who considered marrying his daughter to him. However, a subordinate of Zhang Lu's, Yang Bo (楊柏), said, "A man like that, who has no love for even his parents (referring to the execution of Ma Teng caused by Ma Chao's rebellion), cannot love another" and the marriage proposal was scrapped. Ma Chao then borrowed soldiers from Zhang Lu and attempted to regain some of his lost territory from Cao Cao, but was ultimately unsuccessful. His failures caused the relationship between the two to sour. When Liu Bei's forces had surrounded Liu Zhang, Ma Chao chose this time to leave Hanzhong Commandery with his own followers and join Liu Bei. Ma Chao's subordinate Pang De, however, remained in Zhang Lu's service.

In 215, Cao Cao again launched a campaign to conquer Hanzhong Commandery. Initially, Zhang Lu had no hope of standing against Cao Cao's armies, and planned to surrender. His younger brother Zhang Wei (張衛), however, insisted on fighting and lead his army against the invading forces. He was soon killed in battle, and again Zhang Lu considered surrendering. His adviser Yan Pu, told him that surrendering so easily, they would have no position to negotiate from. Instead, Zhang Lu retreated to his fortress at Bazhong (巴中). When leaving his capital, he did not destroy his wealth and treasures, nor attempt to take them with him, instead leaving them behind saying "These things belong to the country, not to me." Cao Cao was greatly impressed by this, and sent a messenger to Zhang Lu asking him to surrender. Yan Pu's plan was successful, as Zhang Lu and his forces were warmly welcomed by Cao Cao. Cao Cao appointed Zhang Lu as General who Guards the South (鎮南將軍) and enfeoffed his five sons as marquises. Zhang Lu also married his daughter to Cao Yu, one of Cao Cao's sons. When Cao Cao turned Ma Chao's son Ma Qiu (馬秋) over to Zhang Lu, Zhang Lu personally killed Ma Qiu – most likely as revenge against Ma Chao's desertion.

Zhang Lu died in 216 and was honoured with the posthumous title "Marquis Yuan" (原侯) by the Han imperial court. His sons continued to lead the "Five Pecks of Rice" Taoist Order, which later evolved into the one of the two major Taoist schools that survive to modern times known as Zhengyi Dao.

In Romance of the Three Kingdoms
In the 14th-century historical novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Zhang Lu is portrayed as strongly craving the title of King of Hanning, and attempting to aggressively expand his territory. In the novel, he attempts to invade Liu Zhang's Yi Province, only to be stopped. When Ma Chao left his service, he sent a servant Yang Bo (楊薄) along to spy on him. However, when Ma Chao joined Liu Bei, he killed Yang Bo.

title: Zhang Lu (Han dynasty)


text:
Isaac Newton Ragsdale

Isaac Newton Ragsdale (1859–1937) came to Atlanta in 1880 from Dallas, Georgia. He lived for many years in Oakland City and served as mayor there in 1908 before it was annexed into Atlanta. He was in the livestock business and from 1925 to 1926 he served as a Fulton County Commissioner. His time as its mayor came during a 1929 change to the city charter giving mayors a four-year term which he was the first to serve. In 1929, the Atlanta graft ring scandal broke and Ragsdale did not run for re-election.

title: Isaac Newton Ragsdale


text:
Talk:Natalie Glebova

Missing text?
A few things with the article. Some things are not in place. --Numberonedad 17:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Someone fixed it. --Numberonedad 19:39, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Natalie Glebova went to London Central S.S.?? Are you sure about that? I only say that because I'm the same age as she is; there are very few people in my graduating class I had never met, and well I think I'd remember her...Where is the proof that she went to Central?

 * None. It's the wrong Miss Universe - from the LCSS Article: Notable alumni include: * Karen Baldwin, Miss Universe, 1982

 * I'm removing that sentence. Radagast 20:02, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, There is proof that A Natalie Glebova went to London Central S.S. my math teacher taught her, and her yearbook photo looks like her. However. I do not have a yearbook beside me know, where I can take a photo of it.

Natalie Glebova graduated from London Central S.S.

Also Karen baldwin did go to central. So that means our school has the most Miss Universes.

official website
Do any one know official website of Ms.Natalie Glebova

Hi, To answer the above question- Natalie Glebova does not have a personal website of her own, however she is represented by the official "Miss Universe Canada Organization." The "beauty" team which organized the national preliminary to Miss Universe, "Beauties of Canada" operates the official website: http://www.beautiesofcanada.com

TV commercial
Someone added a statement about a Hong Kong TV commercial for The Beverly Hills which she shot, adding that it was "widely mocked". Whilst I can jolly well imagine the blurry and cheesy advert was mocked and ridiculed, I would dearly love to see some sources to back up this assertion. The two offending words have been removed, pending references. Ohconfucius 06:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

biography
Is it possible to get a little more information about how long she lived in Russia and how long she lived in Canada? There are a lot of missing sections to her biography. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.131.210.82 (talk) 23:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You will find some information in this article http://www.thecanadianimmigrant.ca/ontario/jul05-feature-stories.shtml?story2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voyadmin (talk • contribs) 22:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

According to London Central Secondary School year book, both Canadian Miss Universe attended LCSS. Can someone just confirm that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cars o holic (talk • contribs) 21:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Endorsements: Adult link removed
I removed an adult link cleverly placed in an entry under "Endorsements", and replaced it with the appropriate non-profit link for Soi Dog Foundation. EverythingCountsInLargeAmounts (talk) 06:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified
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External links modified
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The latest edits of Natalie Glebova article
Dear Jjj1238 (talk)

In your latest edits to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Glebova you did not follow Wikipedia guidelines regarding editing BLP articles.

I undid your edits for the following reasons:

This article is a collective work of many people. All information was verified and sourced.

You cannot edit biography of living person the way you did.

You removed about 25% of the article.

You incorrectly changed persons names without providing source for your edits.

Official name is Natalie Glebova as in all her documents.

You published it as Natalya Vladimirovna "Natalie" Glebova. There is no need to put duplicate birth name, and why is “Natalie” in quotes?

You published incorrect father name, see correct name here: http://workpermit.com/news/new-miss-universe-hopes-be-role-model-immigrants-20050531

As for English, why are you using present tense in the first sentence? “Vladimir works… Anna is…”

Why did you remove information about the book “Healthy Happy Beautiful”?

Why did you remove Natalie’s daughter name?

Why did you delete the whole chapter “Endorsements”?

Pease do not edit until we reach consensus. Voyad M (talk) 20:16, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Here we go...

"This article is a collective work of many people." Every article is "All information was verified and sourced." Incorrect "You cannot edit biography of living person the way you did." Don't even know what this means "You removed about 25% of the article." Because it was unsourced or not suitable for Wikipedia "Official name is Natalie Glebova as in all her documents." Her birth name is Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova, which is what I emphasized "You published incorrect father name, see correct name here" My mistake, it's more often than not safe to assume someone will have the same surname as their father "As for English, why are you using present tense in the first sentence?" Are they dead? If not it is assumed they still work "Why did you remove information about the book “Healthy Happy Beautiful”?" I'm not even sure what this is "Why did you remove Natalie’s daughter name?" Privacy of non-notable minors per WP:Minors and persons judged incompetent "Why did you delete the whole chapter “Endorsements”?" Because a section on endorsements does not belong on Wikipedia, look at articles like Iris Mittenaere, Demi-Leigh Nel-Peters, Pia Wurtzbach. Their endorsements may be mentioned in other sections if they're relevant, but they should not receive an entire section. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 20:45, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

"This article is a collective work of many people." Every article is This also means that no single person can re-write the whole article to her taste. "All information was verified and sourced." Incorrect ''All information was verified and sourced. Please see the history of edits. It is a job of editor to verify information and provide a source, this applies to your edits as well'' "You cannot edit biography of living person the way you did." Don't even know what this means ''This means that no single person can re-write the whole article to her taste. Please read guidelines.'' "You removed about 25% of the article." Because it was unsourced or not suitable for Wikipedia ''How do you know it is unsourced or not suitable for Wikipedia? It is just your opinion. Please mark any unsourced parts, if you unable to verify them independently (which is your responsibility) than other editors will verify those parts'' "Official name is Natalie Glebova as in all her documents." Her birth name is Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova, which is what I emphasized I mention that her birth name is already published on the right box of the page, no need to repeat it. "As for English, why are you using present tense in the first sentence?" Are they dead? If not it is assumed they still work ''Not nice about dead. They worked in those positions back in Russia. After moving to Canada they work as software specialists.'' "Why did you remove information about the book “Healthy Happy Beautiful”?" I'm not even sure what this is ''The article says that Natalie "is author", you removed information that she wrote and published the book “Healthy Happy Beautiful”. If you are not sure than do not edit or delete, please use this talk page to raise questions or concerns.'' "Why did you remove Natalie’s daughter name?" Privacy of non-notable minors per WP:Minors and persons judged incompetent I agree with you on this one "Why did you delete the whole chapter “Endorsements”?" Because a section on endorsements does not belong on Wikipedia, look at articles like Iris Mittenaere, Demi-Leigh Nel-Peters, Pia Wurtzbach. Their endorsements may be mentioned in other sections if they're relevant, but they should not receive an entire section. ''The chapter “Endorsements” contains important facts about her biography and those facts belong to Wikipedia. You can rename that chapter or move endorsements to other sections but you should not delete facts from BLP.'' Voyad M (talk) 21:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

As requested by Robert_McClenon - Volunteer note - Please take the discussion to the article talk page, Natalie Glebova. While discussion at a user talk page is often useful, the discussion that is required before a case is discussed here should be at the article talk page, which may have other watchers.

Voyad M (talk) 16:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I feel like most of these concerns now we can move past but I still have some comments.

1) Well then why were her parents occupations never mentioned if you knew what they were? Only their occupations in Russia but not in Canada where Glebova spent the majority of her life and is considered a national of? If there's a source to back them up then I would say add that to the article. 2) While if her birth name is only included in the infobox I'm fine with that, but "Natalia" is an incorrect transliteration --- the proper way of writing it is "Natalya". The Russian letter "Я" is properly transliterated as "Ya" not "Ia". 3) I honestly remember nothing about the book, if I deleted it then it properly was either in a section that needed to be reworked entirely, was written in improper English and needed to be reworked entirely, or needed a source. That will be readded. 4) Looking through the endorsements section, not everything is notable. If you're the ambassador of a product that is not relevant enough for a Wikipedia article, then it is not relevant enough to be included in Glebova's article. Some instances of this include "Brand Beauty Ambassador for ICC International", "brand ambassador for Better Vision", "brand ambassador for "Caring Hare Expert"". The ones that are notable should be reworked into a "Career" section. 5) A final point is that the article sections need to be reformatted. As I've mentioned before, see an article like Pia Wurtzbach. "Year in the Life as Miss Universe" should not be its own section, but "Miss Universe" can be a subsection of a larger "Pageantry" section. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 16:51, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Thank you for bringing good points to this discussion. I will come back with answers to your questions and some references as soon as I get back from work. I will also need to update information on Natalie's 2nd book which was released a few days ago and on replacing dead link for official web site.

Voyad M (talk) 17:26, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I am back with answers and suggestions.

1) The article is about Natalie Glebova and I thought it was not important to provide too much information about her parents, however you will find reference to their professions at the bottom of this article http://workpermit.com/news/new-miss-universe-hopes-be-role-model-immigrants-20050531 (the same article that references father’s last name). I also found discussion on Wikipedia regarding last name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard/Archive_2#iw_for_Natalie_Glebova

2) Yes, it is fine to use correct transliteration for "Natalya" in the infobox.

3) The book is listed just on one line under Endorsements section with this text:  “In February 2007, Glebova published her first book Healthy Happy Beautiful[15] and it turned out to be a major best seller.[citation needed]” The text has a link [15] to books.google.com for a printed version in Thai language. The English pdf version is available here https://books.google.com/books?id=Kt8q8cQ00JAC  (click on front cover image to read) This part of the text should probably be removed “and it turned out to be a major best seller.[citation needed]” as no one provided a citation.

4) Yes, some less notable products/companies could be removed, namely: "brand ambassador for Better Vision", "brand ambassador for "Caring Hare Expert" and “Party 4 Charity” which is inactive for 6 years. The others should be moved to other sections.

5) It is fine to reformat sections and remove/rename some headers leaving content of the article intact.

Extras: If you wish to list Spouse in the infobox please publish just present spouse name, it is very personal information. Anyway, both spouses names are published in the main article.

Voyad M (talk) 00:51, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm happy we could come to a compromise. I'm going to revert back to my original edit as there were still several grammar/English language/formatting fixes in it, and make the appropriate adjustments that we agreed on. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 02:37, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

 * There is some confusion we need to resolve.

The center piece of the article has this statement:

“This name uses Eastern Slavic naming customs; the patronymic is Vladimirovna and the family name is Glebova.”

It is very confusing for readers. What name? Natalie Glebova name? Because Natalie Glebova name is listed just above and below that statement.

In reality, Natalie Glebova is the official name that is printed on all documents and it does not use any patronymic name. Searching the web I did not find references to Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova except Wikipedia and some pageant related sites with the same information copied from Wikipedia and all mention that it is a birth name.

I suggest to move that statement as explanatory note to be part of (Russian: Наталья Владимировна Глебова) or to Early life section.

The alternative would be to rephrase it like this:

"The birth name uses Eastern Slavic naming customs; the first name is Natalya, the patronymic is Vladimirovna and the family name is Glebova."

Voyad M (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This is in place to educate readers that "Vladimirovna" is not her middle name, as many readers on the English Wikipedia are likely unfamiliar with Eastern Slavic naming customs. I would not support its removal, as "Vladimirovna" is not her middle name and should not be presented as such. This is why I added her full name to the lead. Would you be opposed to writing the lead instead as:

Natalie Glebova (born Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova, Наталья Владимировна Глебова; 11 November 1981) is a Russian-Canadian etc., etc., etc.

{ [ ( jjj <b style="color: #000000;">1238 ) ] }</b> 18:27, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Yes, this is fine. Voyad M (talk) 18:42, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * We have misunderstanding.

With your latest update you did not remove the misleading statement: “This name uses Eastern Slavic naming customs; the patronymic is Vladimirovna and the family name is Glebova.”

For readers This name means Natalie Glebova. And here comes a confusion with patronymic Vladimirovna which is actually not used in this name.

Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova, Russian: Наталья Владимировна Глебова officially changed her name to Natalie Glebova after arriving in Canada 24 years ago.

I know that many articles about titleholders like Dayana Sabrina Mendoza Moncada use explanation of naming customs, but they did not change their name since birth. Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova (13 years old) is not notable person and is not known to public. There is no reason to display patronymic repeatedly 3 times in this article.

To educate readers we should not overload article but provide useful links instead. Once again, many web sites copy information from Wikipedia and publish incorrect birth name as the real official name.

I am moving that statement as a reference to this sentence: Natalie Glebova (born Natalya Vladimirovna”Reference” Glebova, Russian: Наталья Владимировна Глебова; 11 November 1981) is a Russian-Canadian television host,

I hope you understand and will not oppose. Voyad M (talk) 03:17, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I have a few problems with your edits. If we are including her birth name in the lead, then it must be bolded. Additionally, there is no reason to put the Eastern Slavic naming customs note as a reference. While it'd be more logical to use a note instead of a reference to begin with, no articles actually use the patronymic in the article's title. It will not confuse the reader as "Glebova" is her surname regardless, and they will clearly see that "Vladimirovna" is part of her name as well just by looking down one line. Look at pages like Sergey Lazarev and Anna Kournikova. One note I have is that no sources are needed to verify a patronymic. As I've said previously, it is not a middle name. As long as you have a reference supporting the subject's father's name, then you will know what the patronymic is. All Russian girls born to a father named Vladimir will have the patronymic "Vladimirovna", that is how patronymics work. <b style="color: #AB2B2B;">{ [ ( jjj</b> <b style="color: #000000;">1238 ) ] }</b> 17:14, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

My latest solution looks reasonable and the "mouse over" function can be enhanced further to allow pointing at any part of the name to display pop-up text.

Or there is another alternative:

Use your Revision as of 03:00, 27 November 2018. Add extra explanation note at the end of paragraph. Like this:

This name uses Eastern Slavic naming customs; the patronymic is Vladimirovna and the family name is Glebova.

Natalie Glebova (Russian: Наталья Владимировна Глебова, born 11 November 1981) is a Russian-Canadian television host, author, dancer, model, and beauty pageant titleholder who was crowned Miss Universe 2005. Glebova had previously been crowned Miss Universe Canada 2005.

"Natalie Glebova" is the official name on all documents since 1994.

Voyad M (talk) 21:41, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I actually have a solution that can be a compromise. It'd be formatting the lead like this:

Natalie Glebova (born Natalya Vladimirovna Glebova; 11 November 1981) is a Russian-Canadian television host, author, dancer, model, and beauty pageant titleholder who was crowned Miss Universe 2005. Glebova had previously been crowned Miss Universe Canada 2005. <b style="color: #AB2B2B;">{ [ ( jjj</b> <b style="color: #000000;">1238 ) ] }</b> 21:56, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:06, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Natalie-glebova-dean-kelly-wedding.jpg

title: Talk:Natalie Glebova


text:
In My Head (Queens of the Stone Age song)

"In My Head" is a single released by the rock group Queens of the Stone Age on June 27, 2005, from their fourth album Lullabies to Paralyze. The song originally featured as a track from The Desert Sessions, appearing on Volume 10: I Heart Disco in 2003 where it was named "In My Head...Or Something".

The version of the song on Lullabies to Paralyze first appeared in November 2004, on the soundtrack of the racing video game Need for Speed: Underground 2. The song is available as downloadable content for Rock Band 3 and also appears in the end credits during the Entourage episode "The Release".

A music video for the song was released that was later castigated by guitarist Troy Van Leeuwen: "...[I]t just happened to be the only time we listened to the record label and it was such a fuck up on our part. The video we ended up with for that song is so lame! It was three of us against a green screen with effects added later. It was like a fucking Gap commercial. It was terrible. Just terrible. We were on the road so we weren't in control of it."

Track list

 * 1) "In My Head" - 4:03
 * 2) "I Think I Lost My Headache" (Live) - 5:57
 * 3) "God Is in the Radio" (Live) - 7:53

Personnel
The Desert Sessions – Volume 10: I Heart Disco
 * Josh Homme – lead vocals, drums
 * Josh Freese – bass
 * Troy Van Leeuwen – guitar
 * Alain Johannes – guitar
 * Dean Ween – piano

Queens of the Stone Age – Lullabies to Paralyze
 * Josh Homme – lead vocals, bass
 * Joey Castillo – drums, piano, percussion
 * Troy Van Leeuwen – lead guitar, backing vocals
 * Alain Johannes – rhythm guitar


text:
Talk:C. L. R. James

Birth and Early Career
I have included that Queen's Royal College, which James attended, is a high school. Its name may suggest that it is a post-secondary institution, while it is not.

title: Talk:C. L. R. James