text:
User talk:Cff12345

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Please read the Copyrights about rules of uploading images. If you will not follow them, the images will be deleted. Wikipedia has serious concerns about copyrights. mikka (t) 06:48, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Communist Afghanistan
You seem to know some points or at least interested in the topic. I'm currently working too to expand those articles. Well, any recomendation is welcome in my talk page. Cheers Messhermit 23:53, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Hello! yes, I'm currently trying to expand most of the Bio's of the characters involved in the Communist Era, and I'm having a couple of troubles with some characters. Would you mind to help me with these two?

 * Haji Mohammad Chamkani - Interim President Between Karmal and Najibullah
 * Abdul Rahim Hatef - Interim President after the collapse of Najibullah's Government.

Also, take a look at the Afghan Defense Ministry, I need more info about the last Ministers.

Cheers! see if you can help me. Leave me a message pls. Messhermit 19:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Commun3.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Commun3.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 11:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:40614461_taraki-ap-203x300.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:40614461_taraki-ap-203x300.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 10:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Amin2.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Amin2.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 08:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Amin4.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Amin4.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 06:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Amin5.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Amin5.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 06:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Leader15.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Leader15.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 05:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Taraki.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Taraki.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 05:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Amin1.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Amin1.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 09:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

2007 List of Top Pharma
The data for the 2007 list will be published in September 2008, and I will look to update the Top Pharma list then. Thanks for your interest. GJeffery (talk) 10:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry!
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. -Susanlesch (talk) 03:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I am so sorry for the error. Entirely my fault. (I searched the source file for the string "Berk" where it is not listed but neglected to check the table.) -Susanlesch (talk) 04:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Khalq1978-80.gif

The file File:Khalq1978-80.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.

This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:03, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cff12345


text:
Talk:Tonto Apache

Untitled
Changing name to Tonto because:
 * In Arizona at least, "Tonto" is still the most widely-used name and appears on maps, literature, etc.
 * Name of the associated political entity is still "tonto" in English
 * Dilzhę́'é is not widely understood around here, but if you say "Tonto" everybody knows what you're talking about.
 * Convention overrides offensiveness, as long as it's noted in the article.

--Node 06:49, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * ok, but the Dilzhę́’é prefer to be called Dilzhę́’é, regardless of what non-Dilzhę́’é call them. I note that other articles such as Nuxálk (= Bella Coola) & Nuxálk language use the names preferred by the peoples rather than the names more well-known to outsiders. i was just going by this convention. peace — ishwar  (SPEAK)  07:10, 2005 Jun 12 (UTC)
 * well, i changed the article to Dilzhe'e Apache. this is more respectful. this parallels other articles on indigeous peoples. — ishwar  (SPEAK)  02:35, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)

 * Daagote'e' Ish ishwar,
 * The problem is that even Dilzhe'e call themselves "Tonto" in English. The official name of the tribe is "Tonto", as opposed to the "Tohono O'odham Nation" (formerly the offensive "papago"). It can't be that offensive if it's still part of the official name they have for their own tribe.
 * In addition, "Dilzhe'e" is ambiguous.
 * "Nuxálk" is used by both Nuxálk people and outsiders --- it is now the "politically correct" name for the people, and it can be found in many English texts as well. On the contrary, "Dilzhe'e" appears in almost no English texts.
 * Also, unfortunately, language retention among the Tonto Apache is very low, so "Dilzhe'e", being primarily a name from Ndé biyati', will be less familiar to them.
 * Iinagodzin at'ee --Node 01:27, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * dagot’éé.
 * many Dilzhe’e now prefer Dilzhe’e over Tonto. you can see an example of this usage on the two websites linked from the main article (& also in the PDFs of the tribal newspaper on the Yavapai-Apache site). This is a fairly recent movement that you may not have encountered yet. There may be some Dilzhe'e who do not care either way, but there are some who do prefer Dilzhe'e (I will have to inquire further about this if you are interested).
 * regarding ambiguity: Dilzhe'e is not ambiguous to the Dilzhe'e. With respect to non-Dilzhe'e, the term is no more ambiguous than Tonto which has been used to refer to Dilzhe'e Apache, all Western Apache groups, and even to Yavapais (although it is way better than the term Apache!). Some elders do not even recognize Western Apache groups as they are mostly a western anthropological nomenclature. However, I dont know if these elders specifically reject the Tonto grouping.
 * so, to conclude, the main reason to use the term Tonto Apache stems from a preference to use "established" terminology. which is not necessarily an objectionable practice. After all, most encyclopedias would list Bella Coola and not Nuxálk. peace – ishwar  (speak)  2005 June 28 18:25 (UTC)

 * Daagot'éé.
 * I think that until such time as the tribe changes its name officially, we should keep it as "Tonto". This is similar to using "Pima" instead of "Akimel O'odham". In case you're not familiar with that case, "Pima" is an exonym derived from the Pima "pi 'añi ma:c", meaning "I don't know" (the response to Spanish explorers asking them what peoples they were). "Akimel O'odham" is the native name. "Akimel O'odham" is slowly usurping the name "Pima" in English usage, but the official usage by both Pima tribes (Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community and Gila River Indian Community) remains "Pima". On the other hand, the Tohono O'odham (formerly Papago, from "Ba:b ko'a", meaning "they eat beans") have officially changed the name of their tribes.
 * You're very right that the division between different "groups" of Western Apache is almost nonexistant and is largely created by anthropologists. The White Mountain Apache and the San Carlos Apache both have good-sized reservations that border each other for hundreds of miles; if they were all one reservation it would be nearly the size of the Navajo Nation. --Node 29 June 2005 23:52 (UTC)

Skeleton Cave massacre
I've removed this material, which erroneously stated that the Tonto Apaches were victims. The Yavapai were the victims here -- see "Skeleton Cave" in Yavapai people. There were Tonto Apache scouts attached to the US Army attackers, who reportedly helped rescue some of the survivors. Pete Tillman (talk) 20:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 18:21, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Tonto Apache people → Tonto Apache – The target is a redirect to the current title, created by Kwami in moving "Tonto Apache" to "Tonto Apache people" on June 8 2010, without comment or discussion. As per closures of similar RMs in recent days by Cuchulainn and others, "consensus has spoken" that the people are the PRIMARYTOPIC, as stated by him here re the Northern Tutchone title. Guidelines such as Article titles and the guideline Naming conventions (ethnicities and tribes) call for this move, as does WP:Conciseness and WP:Precision, and more. Skookum1 (talk) 11:01, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Support. In cases where the requested move simply eliminates the word "people", and the destination title is already a simple redirect to the current title, it is clear that guidelines favoring both precision and conciseness support the move. Xoloz (talk) 02:20, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Tonto Apache. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120120125755/http://www.earthodysseyonline.com:80/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=294:the-verde-river-jewel-of-the-southwest&catid=48:nature-a-environment&Itemid=78 to http://www.earthodysseyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=294:the-verde-river-jewel-of-the-southwest&catid=48:nature-a-environment&Itemid=78
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110903234027/http://www.ftmcdowell.org:80/community/community3.html to http://www.ftmcdowell.org/community/community3.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:34, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Tonto Apache. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120228214106/http://www.ncai.org/index.php?id=126&selectpro_area=15 to http://www.ncai.org/index.php?id=126&selectpro_area=15
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121115021937/http://www.apcrp.org/SKELETON_CAVE/Skeleton%20Cave%20Massacre.htm to http://www.apcrp.org/SKELETON_CAVE/Skeleton%20Cave%20Massacre.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20030819172738/http://www.itcaonline.com/tribes_campverd.html to http://www.itcaonline.com/tribes_campverd.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ftmcdowell.org/History%20%26%20Culture.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041210013654/http://www.itcaonline.com/tribes_tonto.html to http://www.itcaonline.com/tribes_tonto.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.ftmcdowell.org/community/community3.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Tonto Apache