text:
Cooper Tire & Rubber Company

Cooper Tire & Rubber Company is an American company that specializes in the design, manufacture, marketing, and sales of replacement automobile and truck tires, and has subsidiaries that specialize in medium truck, motorcycle, and racing tires. With headquarters in Findlay, Ohio, Cooper Tire has 60 manufacturing, sales, distribution, technical, and design facilities within its worldwide family of subsidiary companies, including the UK-based Avon Tyres brand, which produces tires for motorcycles, road cars, and race cars.

From 1960, the company was a publicly held corporation and was listed on the New York Stock Exchange until it was acquired by Goodyear in June 2021.

The company slogan is "The tire with two names ... the company and the man who built it."

Early history
The earliest corporate lineage for Cooper Tire was the M and M Manufacturing Company, founded in 1914 in Akron, Ohio, by John F. Schaefer and Claude E. Hart, who were related by marriage. Their new company produced tire patches, tire cement, and tire repair kits. They purchased The Giant Tire & Rubber Company of Akron, a tire-rebuilding business, in 1920, and in 1922 moved the business to Findlay, Ohio, at a site at the intersection of Lima and Western avenues that is still occupied by Cooper Tire, adjacent to The Cooper Corporation facility. The Cooper name originates from 1919 when Cincinnati auto-parts dealer I. J. Cooper formed the Cooper Corporation in Findlay, to manufacture new tires. The Cooper Corporation, the M and M Company, and the Falls Rubber company merged in 1930 to form the Master Tire and Rubber Company. The company name was changed to Cooper Tire & Rubber Company in 1946.

The Cooper oval trademark with the Cooper Knight headgear was first registered and used in 1941. In those early years of the brand's identification, the logo also included a banner proclaiming the tires' "armored-cord" construction. The company's red, white, and blue logo became one of the more easily recognized emblems in the tire industry.

During World War II, the company, known as Master Tire and Rubber, manufactured pontoons, landing boats, waterproof bags and camouflage items, inflatable barges, life jackets, and tank decoys, as well as tires, to supply the Allied forces. The U.S. government recognized the company's contribution to the war effort in a 1945 ceremony bestowing the Army-Navy ‘E’ Award (for excellence). Soon after the war (1946), the company name was changed to Cooper Tire & Rubber Company.

Public company
From 1946 to 1982, Cooper Tire was headed by a member of the Brewer family: first W.B. Brewer, then his sons, Wayne and Edward. Another son, Robert, was a vice president. W.B. Brewer took Cooper Tire public, and on July 11, 1960, the company was listed on the New York Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol "CTB", the "B" standing for "Brewer." Throughout their tenure, the Brewers set a tone for hands-on leadership, management mingling with workers, and taking care of them. They built the trust and loyalty of the workers.

Under the Brewers' leadership, Cooper Tire grew significantly. By 1983, the company joined the ranks of Fortune 500 companies as one of the largest industrial companies in the United States.

Acquisition by Goodyear
On February 22, 2021, Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company announced that it entered into an agreement to acquire Cooper Tire for about $2.8 billion in cash and shares. The transaction was closed in June 2021, and was to result in Cooper shareholders owning around 16% of the combined company.

Foreign manufacturing plants and acquisitions
In 1997, Cooper purchased Avon Tyres Ltd., based in Melksham, England.

The company's largest growth acquisition occurred in 1999, when it bought the Standard Products Company, which increased Cooper's total workforce by 10,000 employees. Dearborn, Michigan-based Standard Products produced sealing, plastic trim, and vibration-control systems for the automotive original-equipment industry worldwide. The purchase included Standard Products subsidiaries Oliver Rubber Company and Holm Industries Inc. Oliver Rubber manufactured tread rubber and equipment for the truck-retread industry. Holm produced seals for home and commercial refrigerators.

In December 2003, Cooper agreed to a joint venture with Kenda Rubber Industrial Company to construct a tire-manufacturing plant near Shanghai.

In January 2005, Cooper agreed to purchase 11% of South Korea-based Kumho Tires Company, and also announced the formation of a new commercial division encompassing both Oliver Rubber Company and commercial tires.

In October 2005, Cooper announced an agreement to obtain 51% ownership in China's third largest tire manufacturer, Cooper Chengshan (Shandong) Passenger Tire Company Ltd., and Cooper Chengshan (Shandong) Truck Tire Company Ltd., to produce truck and passenger car tires for mainland Chinese and export markets.

In 2007, Cooper started manufacturing in eastern China with Kenda Rubber Industrial Company, a company based in Taiwan. Cooper generates 25% of its global sales in China.

In 2007, Cooper sold its Oliver Rubber Company subsidiary, which produced tread rubber and retreading equipment, to Michelin for US$69million.

In December 2011, Cooper bought a unit of the Serbian tire manufacturing company Trayal Corporation from Kruševac, from the Bulgarian company Brikel EAD for a sum of $13million and invested as much as $50million. The newly established company, which has disintegrated from the Trayal Corporation, was named "Cooper Tire & Rubber Company Serbia" d.o.o. As of 2016, it has around 740 employees and annual revenue of $76million.

An Indian company named Apollo Tyres agreed to buy Cooper Tires for $2.5billion on June 12, 2013. This would have made Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. the only major tire manufacturer left in the United States. On December 30, 2013, Apollo pulled out of the deal because Cooper had not disclosed vital information about its lack of control over its Chinese business. The Chinese plant went on an indefinite strike against the proposed acquisition, forcing Apollo to try to lower the $35-per-share bid in the original deal.

In June 2020, Cooper announced that it would open a new regional distribution center in Whiteland, Indiana, in early 2021. The new site will replace the company's facility in Franklin and increase product storage capacity.

Cooper Tires
Cooper Tires produces Cooper-branded tires for passenger cars, light trucks, sport utility vehicles, and commercial trucks.

Avon Rubber PLC
In 1997, the tire business of Avon Rubber of Melksham, Wiltshire, in the United Kingdom was sold to Cooper, so that Avon could concentrate on its core businesses of automotive components, technical products, and protective equipment. Cooper Tire remained a major employer in central Melksham, which was Cooper's European headquarters. In 2018, production was reduced to motorsport racing and motorcycle tires after non-specialist production was moved to Serbia, and in October 2022 the company announced plans to close the Melksham site by the end of 2023.

Other brands
In addition to Avon, Cooper Tire manufactures tires under the associated brand names Dean, Mastercraft, Mickey Thompson, Roadmaster, and Starfire. Cooper Tire formerly manufactured all tires sold under the Sears Guardsman brand at Sears, Roebuck & Co. stores. Cooper manufactures tires for Discount Tire Company under the Arizonian brand name, and Futura Tires for Pep Boys. Cooper Tire also manufactures Hercules branded tires in Findlay, Ohio. Cooper tires can be purchased at many tire retailers, such as Tire Discounters, Pep Boys, Discount Tire, and more.

Motorsports and sponsorships
Cooper became the official tire of the A1 Grand Prix, dubbed the World Cup of Motorsports, for the series' initial 2005–06 season and was under contract to produce slick tires and treaded rain tires for the series championship until 2008.

Since 1982, Avon Tyres had been the sole supplier for the British Formula Three Championship. From the 2009 season onwards, these were rebranded "Cooper", as Cooper became the championship's official title sponsor, and was to until the end of the 2014 season at least. Avon Tyres was also the exclusive supplier for the FIA Formula Two Championship when revived in 2009 to 2012.

In April 2010, Cooper/Avon Tyres presented a written proposal to Formula One Team Association to be the official tire supplier for the 2011 Formula One season. This was ultimately rejected and Pirelli became the official tire supplier for 2011 onwards.

In the United States, Cooper became the official tire of the Champ Car Atlantic Championship in 2007. Cooper became the official tire of the IMSA Prototype Lites series (formerly IMSA Lites) in 2010. Cooper Tires is the official supplier of the Mazda Road to Indy formula ladder: USF2000 (since 2010), Pro Mazda (since 2013), and Indy Lights (since 2014).

As of 2014, Cooper is the official supplier of the FIA World Rallycross Championship. The Americas Rallycross Championship also uses Cooper Tires.

On July 7, 2017, it was announced that Avon Tyres would be the primary kit sponsor for Championship side Derby County for the 2017/2018 season. In 2020, due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Cooper announced that the Road to Indy Presented by Cooper Tires will proceed through virtual races using racing simulation platform by iRacing.

Management and company personnel
Cooper has 10,540 employees as of its 2016 annual report. Bradley E. Hughes is Cooper's president and CEO.

title: Cooper Tire & Rubber Company


text:
Agostino Steuco

Agostino Steuco (in Latin Agostinus Steuchus or Eugubinus) (1497/1498–1548), Italian humanist, Old Testament scholar, Counter Reformation polemicist and antiquarian, was born at Gubbio in Umbria. He discoursed on the subject of perennial philosophy and coined the term philosophia perennis.

Ecclesiastical career
In 1513 he entered the congregation of the Order of the Augustinian Canons of San Salvatore of Bologna, taking up residence in the monastery of San Secundo, one of the order's houses in Gubbio. In 1524 he went to the mother cloister in Bologna, from where he briefly attended courses in Hebrew and rhetoric at the University of Bologna. In 1525 he was sent by his congregation to the Monastery of Sant' Antonio di Castello in Venice, where, due to his expertise in biblical languages and humanist textual criticism, he was placed in charge of the monastery's library, donated to the canons by Cardinal Domenico Grimani. Many of the collection's biblical, Hebrew, and philosophical works had once been owned by Pico della Mirandola.

Polemics against early Protestants
Over the next several years (1529–33) Steuco wrote a series of polemical works against Luther and Erasmus, the latter of whom he accused of helping to foment the Protestant Reformation against the Church. These works show Steuco's staunch support of the traditions and practices of the Church, including a strident defense of papal authority. Part of his output during this period included a major set of annotations on the Pentateuch, titled Veteris testamenti ad Hebraicam veritatem recognitio, in which he used Hebrew and Greek manuscripts from the Grimani Library to correct Jerome's Vulgate translation of the Old Testament text. When explaining the text, he never strayed from the literal and historical meaning. An interesting juxtaposition to this work of humanist biblical exegesis was a syncretic philosophical work that he wrote in this period, to which he gave the title Cosmopoeia.

His polemical and exegetical works attracted the notice of Pope Paul III, and in 1538 the pope made Steuco bishop of Chisamo on the island of Crete, and librarian of the papal collection of manuscripts and printed works in the Vatican. While he never visited his bishopric in Crete, Steuco did actively fulfill his role as Vatican Librarian until his death in 1548. While in Rome he authored Old Testament annotations on the Psalms and Job, again relying heavily upon Hebrew sources to help annotate and correct the texts.

Christianity and classical philosophy
In 1540 he published a major work entitled De perenni philosophia, which attempted to show that many of the ideas expounded by the sages, poets, and philosophers from classical antiquity were in essential harmony with Christianity. Since Marsilio Ficino and Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, this was a common thread in Renaissance thought which spread from Italy to France and Germany, but this was the first book devoted to the subject. Steuco believed that Roman Catholicism, centred on the Gospels, is the true hidden core of pagan beliefs; Theobald Freudenberger commented that "If a [ancient] passage really refuses to fit into his system, he earnestly addresses the author and admonishes him in a fatherly way to come to his senses." This work has a slight polemical edge to it, as Steuco crafted a number of his arguments to lend support to several theological positions that had recently come under question in Italy by reformers and critics of the traditional Catholic faith. His perspective has been described by Maria Muccillo:

"Steuco proposes his “perennial philosophy,” deeply permeated by platonism, in 1540, on the eve of the Council of Trent: at a moment when, after the Protestant Reformation, the chance of restoring the unity of the Christian world would seem to be exhausted, and the very ideal – dear to many exponents of the so-called “Catholic Reform” – of a close interpenetration of the Humanist and the Catholic spirit is beginning to decline. In this historical/religious context, Steuco’s work comes to assume the significance of a desperate last attempt, effected by the means of historical erudition, of reuniting and reconciling the fragmented Christian world ... [It] represents perhaps one of the last attempts to utilize the Humanist ideals in the interest of Catholic Reform, before the latter “will yield to the disciplinary and dogmatic force of the Counter-Reformation, which will preserve from Humanism only the splendid but henceforth empty outer form.”"

- Maria Muccillo, Platonismo, Ermetismo e "Prisca Theologia", 7–8

Interest in Rome
As a Roman humanist, he also took a deep interest in the classical ruins of Rome, and in the urban renewal efforts of Paul III throughout the city. Of particular note in this vein are a series of short orations that he wrote and possibly delivered at the papal court, urging Paul III to refurbish the aqueduct known as the Aqua Virgo, in order to supply Rome with adequate fresh water, and as a major key to the revitalization of the city itself.

Attendance at Trent and death
In 1547 Steuco was sent by Paul III to attend the Council of Trent, where he could be counted upon to uphold papal prerogatives and authority. He died in 1548 while in Venice on break from the Council. He is now buried in Gubbio.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Agostino Steuco


text:
8x8

8x8, Inc. is an American provider of Voice over IP products. Its products include cloud-based voice, contact center, video, mobile and unified communications for businesses. Since 2018, 8x8 manages Jitsi.

History
The company was founded in 1987 by Chi-Shin Wang and Y. W. Sing formerly of Weitek as Integrated Information Technology, Inc., or IIT. The name was changed in the mid-1990s. According to the company, IIT began as an integrated circuit designer. The company produced math coprocessors for x86 microprocessors, as well as Graphics accelerator cards for the personal computer market during the late 1980s. The company later changed its name to 8x8, and began producing products for the videoconferencing market.

8x8 went public on the NASDAQ market in 1997. The company moved their trading to NYSE in 2017, under the ticker symbol EGHT. In 1999, 8x8 acquired two companies, Odisei and U|Force, to acquire network and server VoIP technologies.

In March 2000, 8x8 relaunched itself as a VoIP service provider under the name Netergy Networks. The company changed its name back to 8x8 in July 2001. 8x8 began trading on the Nasdaq SmallCap Market on 26 July 2002. The company's stock was listed on the New York Stock Exchange for a time before switching back to Nasdaq in November 2022.

In 2003, the company launched a videophone service. In July 2007, after startup SunRocket was liquidated, 8x8 entered an agreement to accept 200,000 of its customers.

Gartner has listed 8x8 several times as a Leader for UCaaS (Unified Communications as a Service) within its Gartner Magic Quadrant, a series of technology market reports. 8x8 has been awarded 128 patents related to semiconductors, computer architecture, video processing algorithms, videophones and communications technologies and security.

In 2018, the company acquired Jitsi and Jitsi Meet.

Acquisitions
In May 2010, 8x8 acquired Central Host, a California-based managed hosting company. In June 2011, the company announced the acquisition of Zerigo, a Colorado-based cloud services company. In September 2011, 8x8 acquired Contactual, a hosted contact center company. In 2013, it acquired United Kingdom-based Voicenet, another cloud services company.

In May 2015 8x8 acquired privately held UK-based DXI Ltd., a cloud-based contact center solutions vendor for $26 million in cash and stock. The same month, 8x8 announced the acquisition of MarianaIQ (MIQ), to transform both employee and customer experience. The following month, the company acquired assets of the privately held Quality Software Corp. (QSC) as well as two affiliated companies.

In October 2018, 8x8 acquired Jitsi, an open source tool for chat and video conferencing, from Atlassian.

In July 2019, it acquired Wavecell, a CPaaS (communications platform as a service) provider headquartered in Singapore.

In Jan 2020, 8x8 acquired the Finnish startup, callstats.io, a SaaS call quality monitoring service that measures call quality in WebRTC apps.

title: 8x8


text:
User:Hamx5446

Hamish Patel

title: User:Hamx5446


text:
ICESat

ICESat (Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite) was a NASA satellite mission for measuring ice sheet mass balance, cloud and aerosol heights, as well as land topography and vegetation characteristics. It operated as part of NASA's Earth Observing System (EOS). ICESat was launched 13 January 2003 on a Delta II launch vehicle from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California into a near-circular, near-polar orbit with an altitude of approximately 600 km. It operated for seven years before being retired in February 2010, after its scientific payload shut down and scientists were unable to restart it.

The ICESat mission was designed to provide elevation data needed to determine ice sheet mass balance as well as cloud property information, especially for stratospheric clouds common over polar areas. It provides topography and vegetation data around the globe, in addition to the polar-specific coverage over the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. The satellite was found useful in assessing important forest characteristics, including tree density.

Satellite instruments
The sole instrument on ICESat was the Geoscience Laser Altimeter System (GLAS), a space-based lidar. GLAS combined a precision surface lidar with a sensitive dual-wavelength cloud and aerosol lidar. The GLAS lasers emit infrared and visible laser pulses at 1064- and 532-nm wavelengths. As ICESat orbited, GLAS produced a series of approximately 70 m diameter laser spots that were separated by nearly 170 m along the spacecraft's ground track. During the commissioning phase of the mission, the ICESat was placed into an orbit which allowed the ground track to repeat every 8 days. During August and September 2004, the satellite was maneuvered into a 91-day repeating ground track for the main portion of the mission.

Operational history
ICESat was designed to operate for three to five years. Testing indicated that each GLAS laser should last for two years, requiring GLAS to carry three lasers in order to fulfill the nominal mission length. During the initial on orbit test operation, a pump diode module on the first GLAS laser failed prematurely on 29 March 2003. A subsequent investigation indicated that a corrosive degradation of the pump diodes, due to an unexpected but known reaction between indium solder and gold bonding wires, had possibly reduced the reliability of the lasers. Consequentially, the total operational life for the GLAS instrument was expected to be as little as less than a year as a result. After the two months of full operation in the fall of 2003, the operational plan for GLAS was changed, and it was operated for one-month periods out of every three to six months in order to extend the time series of measurements, particularly for the ice sheets. The last laser failed on 11 October 2009, and following attempts to restart it, the satellite was retired in February 2010. Between 23 June 2010 and 14 July 2010, the spacecraft was maneuvered into a lower orbit in order to speed up orbital decay. On 14 August 2010, it was decommissioned, and at 08:49 UTC on 30 August 2010 it reentered the atmosphere.

Follow-on satellite
A follow-on mission, ICESat-2, was developed by NASA to continue studying polar ice changes, and the biomass and carbon in vegetation. The satellite was launched on 15 September 2018 aboard a Delta II launch vehicle. For the period of time in between the two satellites, NASA's Operation IceBridge used a Douglas DC-8 aircraft as a stopgap to measure ice thickness and collect other data.

title: ICESat


text:
Talk:History of LSD

Bicycle Day
I removed the subsection titled "Bicycle day" as it was highly tangential. There is already an appropriate reference to "Bicycle Day" in the section titled "Discovery and history". TR166ER (talk) 15:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Tom Roberts should be cited as he coined this phrase  Tu rk ey ph an t 02:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

last paragraph claims ingestion was on the 16th - which conflicts with first paragraph which states original event was on 19th § — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:8A9:6700:4A1:EA70:CD8:C3DA (talk) 09:54, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Research in Czechoslovakia
I contributed a paragraph on the use in Czechoslovakia, but it got deleted completely. I believe it is very relevant because it was one of the few countries that produced it's own LSD and the research done for military, medical and experimental purposes was quite extensive and is well documented, for which I provided 4 different sources from reliable media, and certainly more could be found in literature I don't currently have access to. This was argued by User:WikiLinuz who deleted the text to not in fact be reliable sources, but I disagree with that judgement. Furthermore, I also disagree with the judgement of it being WP:UNDUE as I think it's comparable in significance and extent to e.g. the mkultra research and my text had comparable volume and I consider the judgement of it being undue to be an instance of Americentrism. My paragraph was free of opinion claims, it only provided a summary of events. I would thus like it to return the text in some form. Please tell me in more detail how it should be modified so that it's more acceptable. Barvinek (talk) 10:04, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The MIT press source the only reliable source on your addition. I'm not against adding the material about Czechoslovakia, but it should be properly sourced. The MIT source is mainly about LSD's application in psychedelic therapy (which I have no problem with), but significant amount of the content you added is about military usage (which the MIT source doesn't talk about). So you should add reliable sources particularly regarding LSD experimentation in the military (and by the communists). -- Wiki Linuz  ( talk ) 11:13, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * So, do I understand it correctly, if I provide sources that you would consider more reliable, you would find the text itself acceptable? Does the language of the source affect how reliable is it considered for English wikipedia? Or do you also see other issues with it? Barvinek (talk) 12:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah. As long as the source itself is reliable, it can still be used. Though English sources are preferred if available. See WP:NONENG. -- Wiki Linuz  ( talk ) 13:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Why exactly is a documentary movie that literally shows the people doing the research themselves recollecting the events and literally showing footage from the military research with an official military commentary considered "not reliable source"? Barvinek (talk) 15:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about ceskatelevize, it's really hard to WP:VERIFY since it's behind a paywall. There's no policy against including video sources (including paywalled sources), but if the subject really is well-covered, you shouldn't have trouble finding text sources (like books, etc.) covering this. -- Wiki Linuz  ( talk ) 16:03, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * As a matter of fact, the movie is NOT behind paywall. https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/10463665003-lsd-made-in-cssr/ ČT is a public TV, not a commercial one. This book gives a detailed account of the experiments outside military: https://www.knihydobrovsky.cz/e-kniha/lsd-vyzkum-a-klinicka-praxe-za-zeleznou-oponou-227839035 Would that be considered a reliable source? Barvinek (talk) 18:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, we can then use the documentary then (since there's lack of coverage in English sources). Yes, the book seems like a RS. -- Wiki Linuz  ( talk ) 18:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:History of LSD


text:
User:Mononoke~enwiki/monobook.css

/* onglets en bas de page */ margin: -0.3em 0 0.5em 11.5em; white-space:nowrap; line-height: 1.5em; overflow: visible; border-collapse: collapse; padding: 0 0 0.5em 1em; list-style: none; font-size: 95%; }  display: inline; border: 1px solid #aaaaaa; border-top: none; padding: 0.2em 0 0.3em 0; margin: 0 0.3em 0 0; overflow: visible; background: white; }  border-color: #fabd23; padding: 0.2em 0 0.3em 0; }  background-color: white; border: none; padding: 0.3em 0.8em 0 0.8em; text-decoration: none; position: relative; margin: 0; }
 * 1) mytabs {
 * 1) mytabs .hiddenStructure { display: none; }
 * 2) mytabs li {
 * 1) mytabs li.selected {
 * 1) mytabs li a {
 * 1) mytabs li.selected a { z-index: 3; }

z-index: 3; text-decoration: none; }  padding-left: 0.4em; padding-right: 0.4em; } /* offsets to distinguish the tab groups */ li#mytabs-ca-talk { margin-right: 1.6em; } li#mytabs-ca-watch { margin-left: 1.6em; }
 * 1) mytabs li a:hover {
 * 1) mytabs h5 { display: none; }
 * 2) mytabs li.istalk { margin-right: 0; }
 * 3) mytabs li.istalk a { padding-right: 0.5em; }
 * 4) mytabs-ca-addsection a {

/* coins ronds */ -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 0.4em; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 0.4em; }
 * 1) mytabs li, #mytabs li a {

/* onglets */
 * 1) mytabs li a, #p-cactions li a {color: #aaa;}
 * 2) mytabs li a:hover, #p-cactions li a:hover {color: #002bb8;}
 * 3) mytabs li.selected a, #p-cactions li.selected a {color: #002bb8 !important;}
 * 4) mytabs li.new a, #p-cactions li.new a {color: #ba0000 !important;}
 * 5) p-cactions li { padding: 0.1em 0 0.3em 0; }
 * 6) p-cactions li.selected { padding: 0.2em 0 0.3em 0; }

/* coins ronds pour mozilla */ input[type="text"], input[type="submit"], textarea, pre, #toc { -moz-border-radius: 2px; }
 * 1) content, #p-cactions ul li, #p-cactions ul li a { -moz-border-radius-topleft: 0.4em; -moz-border-radius-topright: 0.4em; }

/* bordures des blocs pre */
 * 1) bodyContent pre { border: 1px solid #aaa; }

 * 1) content { margin: 2.8em 0 0 12.2em; }

 * 1) p-personal li a, #p-personal li a:visited {color: #888; background: transparent;}
 * 2) p-personal li a:hover {color: #002bb8; background: transparent;}

/* formulaire de recherche */
 * 1) p-search input:focus, #p-search input:hover { background-color: #fff; }
 * 2) searchInput {text-align: left; border: 1px solid #aaa; background-color: #eee;}
 * 3) p-search .pBody {text-align: left; padding-left: 0.5em}

/* formulaires */ input[type="radio"], input[type="checkbox"] { border:none; } input[type="text"], input[type="submit"], textarea { border: 1px solid #aaa !important; } input[type="submit"] {color: #aaa !important;} input[type="submit"]:hover, input[type="submit"]:focus {color: #000 !important;}

/* augmenter la marge entre la boite d'edition et le resume */ textarea { margin-bottom: 0.8em; }

/* titres de menus et d'onglets avec majuscule initiale */ .portlet h5, #pt-userpage, #pt-anonuserpage, #pt-mytalk, #pt-preferences, #pt-mycontris, #pt-login, #pt-logout, #p-cactions li a {text-transform: none}

/* augmente l'espace sous le logo */
 * 1) p-nav {margin-top: 0.8em}

/* titres des boites "navigation", "boite à outils" et "autres langues" en gras */ .portlet h5 {font-weight: bold;}

/* fond des boites "navigation", "boite à outils" et "autres langues" en blanc avec bordure */ .portlet h5 {background: transparent; border: 0}

/* suppression du bouton "Consulter" */ /* input[value = "Consulter"] {display: none} */

/* suppression du lien "Faire un don" */ li#n-sitesupport {display: none}

/* suppression du lien "Une page au hasard" */ /* li#n-randompage {display: none} */

/* suppression du bandeau de bas-de-page */
 * 1) footer {display: none}

/* suppression des messages système */
 * 1) siteNotice {display:none}

/* suppression de l'avertissement en bas dans la page d'édition */ div#editpage-copywarn {display: none}

/* suppression du lien page d'accueil */ /* #n-mainpage {display: none} */

/* suppression du lien actualites */ /* #n-currentevents {display: none} */

/* suppression du lien aide */ /* #n-help {display: none} */

/* boite categorie */ /* déplace la boite du lien de catégorie */ border: 1px solid #aaa; background: #fafafa; margin: 1em 0 0 0; padding: 0 0.5em 0 0.5em; }
 * 1) catlinks {

/* format le lien de catégorie lui-même */ p.catlinks { color: #aaa; font-size:67%; text-align:left; text-indent:0; text-transform: none; white-space:normal; }

/* format du lien */ p.catlinks a { color:#888; }

title: User:Mononoke~enwiki/monobook.css


text:
User:Mononoke~enwiki/monobook.js

/* deplacement de la boite categorie en haut de page */ /* desactive : visiblement cela pose un probleme de decalage des images - A CORRIGER */

/* function catsattop { */ /*  var cats = document.getElementById('catlinks'); */ /*  var bc = document.getElementById('bodyContent'); */ /*  bc.insertBefore(cats, bc.childNodes[0]); */ /* } */ /* if (window.addEventListener) window.addEventListener("load",catsattop,false); */ /* else if (window.attachEvent) window.attachEvent("onload",catsattop); */

/* doublement des onglets en bas de page */

function morelinks { var tabs = document.getElementById('p-cactions').cloneNode(true); tabs.id = 'mytabs'; var listitems = tabs.getElementsByTagName('LI'); for (i=0;i<\/SCRIPT>');

title: User:Mononoke~enwiki/monobook.js


text:
Indeterminate growth

In biology and botany, indeterminate growth is growth that is not terminated in contrast to determinate growth that stops once a genetically predetermined structure has completely formed. Thus, a plant that grows and produces flowers and fruit until killed by frost or some other external factor is called indeterminate. For example, the term is applied to tomato varieties that grow in a rather gangly fashion, producing fruit throughout the growing season. In contrast, a determinate tomato plant grows in a more bushy shape and is most productive for a single, larger harvest, then either tapers off with minimal new growth or fruit or dies.

Inflorescences
In reference to an inflorescence (a shoot specialised for bearing flowers, and bearing no leaves other than bracts), an indeterminate type (such as a raceme) is one in which the first flowers to develop and open are from the buds at the base, followed progressively by buds nearer to the growing tip. The growth of the shoot is not impeded by the opening of the early flowers or development of fruits and its appearance is of growing, producing, and maturing flowers and fruit indefinitely. In practice the continued growth of the terminal end necessarily peters out sooner or later, though without producing any definite terminal flower, and in some species it may stop growing before any of the buds have opened.

Not all plants produce indeterminate inflorescences however; some produce a definite terminal flower that terminates the development of new buds towards the tip of that inflorescence. In most species that produce a determinate inflorescence in this way, all of the flower buds are formed before the first ones begin to open, and all open more or less at the same time. In some species with determinate inflorescences however, the terminal flower blooms first, which stops the elongation of the main axis, but side buds develop lower down. One type of example is Dianthus; another type is exemplified by Allium; and yet others, by Daucus.

Animals
In zoology, indeterminate growth refers to the condition where animals grow rapidly when young, and continue to grow after reaching adulthood although at a slower pace. It is common in fish, amphibians, reptiles, and many molluscs. The term also refers to the pattern of hair growth sometimes seen in humans and a few domestic breeds, where hair continues to grow in length until it is cut.

Mushrooms
Some mushrooms – notably Cantharellus californicus – also exhibit indeterminate growth.

title: Indeterminate growth


text:
Talk:Saba (island)

Pronunciation
What is the source of the pronunciation /ˈsɑːbə/ given here? As far as I know the name is pronounced /ˈseɪːbə/ (SAY-ba) in English and /ˈsɑːbɑː/ (SAAH-baah) in Dutch. Vernoeming (talk) 08:40, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

 * I just visited and you are right, every local person agrees, I made the change 184.75.115.98 (talk) 18:54, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

, Thank you for adding the Wells (2008) reference. Question: since /ˈseɪbə/ is the American pronunciation, while /'seːbə/ is the local pronunciation (and pan-Caribbean pronunciation), is there anyway to add and/or distinguish those pronunciations? Thank you for your help! :) CareAhLine (talk) 18:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:DIAPHONEMIC. is a diaphoneme that basically means "whatever is the sound in face" rather than a specific phonetic quality. So unless [eː] in [ˈseːbə] is not the sound in face but a realization of another phoneme, there's no reason to "add and/or distinguish those pronunciations". Nardog (talk) 09:38, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for providing that explanation CareAhLine (talk) 00:22, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Etymology
I was unable to find out the etymology of the word 'Saba' :(

sdrawkcabSdrawkcab (talk) 17:40, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Hi! I have added an Etymology section, based on information from Hartog's "History of Saba" book. Let me know your thoughts, since I am new to editing. Thanks :) CareAhLine (talk) 03:54, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Move challenge
I am challenging your bold move, please return the pages to their original homes and get consensus for the move. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:29, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Um, just move it back then? :) is there a technical problem I am missing here? In any event, my rationale is there in the edit summary. Can you provide one of your own perhaps? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:40, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Lol, yeah you move it back. You were mistaken that the move wouldn't be controversial, you can only make bold moves which are uncontroversial. You need WP:CONSENUS otherwise. See WP:MOVE. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Honestly, have you even read the page you are pointing me to in such an increasingly rude way? Please refer to WP:UNDOMOVE - if you want to undo a move, you can and should undo it yourself (see also WP:BRD). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It is considered impolite to undo a move without first seeing if the mover is willing to self revert. You made a bad move, thats OK but now you need to clean up your mess. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:28, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

So anyway, let me try to get back to what's important here. The rationale for the move is that there's been a presumption of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the island, but no elaboration. There's some value to implicit, organic consensus about it, but I've seen so many badly handled page titles before that I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a long-standing issue that merely didn't get attention.

So, the data points I examined were:
 * There's a rather large hatnote, and a rather large and reasonably diverse disambiguation page
 * Three of the items there already have more views than the island, cf. https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/massviews/?platform=all-access&agent=user&source=wikilinks&range=latest-20&sort=views&direction=1&view=list&target=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saba%20(disambiguation)
 * One of the most popular outgoing links on the page is indeed the disambiguation page per https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Saba
 * Google Books search for the term seemed inconclusive to me, as it was nominally clear the island wasn't the primary topic there, but there was also quite a lot of San Saba in the sample, which may or may not be muddying the water
 * I went spelunking in page history some more (I had checked that there were no move actions before) and actually found that the initial revisions of the article were already a bit ambivalent about the assumption of primary topic, where folks noticed the ambiguity in the space of a few months and a few edits.

So I leaned toward moving towards implying just WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT for a start. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:15, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It does appear to be the primary topic, when I search "Saba" on google or academic search engines almost all of the results are for this subject. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:28, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think I see anything like that when searching. There's only one result about the island among the first 10 results on Google and Google Books, with none on Google Scholar (which returns authors with the name, so not useful any way). Uanfala (talk) 12:29, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Clearly the primary topic. The headnote also indicates it (Sabah (with h)) is a differently written one then Saba the NL island. I have reverted it per wp:BRD. Feel free to start a move discussion. L.tak (talk) 19:50, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * By 'headnote' you mean hatnote?
 * The wikinav data does not indicate a swell of outgoing pageviews from the link to Sabah, rather it goes to the final part of the hatnote, the Saba disambiguation page. I would posit that this is a clear hint that the hatnote is not formatted well - if we know the readers are skipping over the links to Sabah and Sabaeans to get to the disambiguation page, the navigation isn't set up properly.
 * Now, does this trump the island's claim to being the primary topic, that part isn't clear.
 * Which academic search engines did you use?
 * The aforementioned search on Google Books was https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Saba&pws=0 which shows me:
 * #1 a reference to the island
 * #2 and #3 San Saba
 * #4 and #5 about the island and neighboring ones
 * #6 San Saba
 * #7 Umberto Saba
 * #8 and #9 fiction books where a titular character is named Saba
 * #10 a tourist guide to the island
 * #11 San Saba
 * #12 islands
 * #13 #14 #15 San Saba again
 * #16 a reference to a Abdullah bin Saba
 * #17 Mar Saba
 * #18 Umberto Saba
 * #19 Mar Saba
 * #20 a Saba Yisroel
 * That spread alone was pretty indicative of there not being a primary topic. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 23:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't understand your point, when you exclude all of the results which aren't for Saba but just have saba as part of a longer name the island is clearly the primary topic. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:23, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
 * But can you exclude that? Do we know for a fact that people never refer to the San Saba terms as Saba?
 * Anyway, even if we arbitrarily just decide to omit San Saba, the human names are not just "parts of a longer name" but rather distinctly recognized names of the said people. In other words, you can't just say a person with the given name or surname Saba is not a valid use for "Saba" or not a valid search term for "Saba".
 * Especially coupled with the statistics that say that several of those people are in fact similarly or more commonly looked up as the base name. Here's a view of just the top of the list (long tail notwithstanding!): https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=all-time&pages=Saba|Saba_Azad|Saba_Qamar|Saba_Ali_Khan|Saba_Hameed|Sabaeans|Sheba|Saba_(rapper)
 * Saba Azad actually skews the statistic so much it has to be removed to get a better view of the rest.
 * Yet even if you drop all three people that became popular more recently, so we don't necessarily know their long-term significance, the graph that compares the rest is pretty clearly not a primary topic graph. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:10, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes you can exclude them, they aren't named Saba they're named something else. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:30, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That, well, just doesn't make any sense to me. It's literally the name of those people. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Its literally *part* of their name. Is that what you meant or maybe you didn't mean literally? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I've elaborated on this below, there's actually no point re-hashing it here. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:07, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi! I know the discussion of this matter has moved below, but I wondered if the following example could help provide some evidence to why persons who have "Saba" in their name but aren't exclusively known by the singular name "Saba" should be excluded, as @Horse Eye's Back recommended above.
 * Here's the example: Virginia is the primary topic as it relates to Virginia (disambiguation), right? This is despite the fact that Virginia Woolf gets a very similar number (and on average more) page views than Virginia (if I have run |Virginia_Woolf this query correctly, that is). So Virginia would not be a primary topic if, when determining if it is more likely than all the other topics combined, we included persons such as Virginia Woolf. But it is indeed the primary topic, correct? Or have I misinterpreted something? CareAhLine (talk) 15:00, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that you missed the glaring fact that the US state of Virginia may well have other claims to WP:PTOPIC, such as it's relatively large area, population, ranking based on various parameters, and likely a number of other conventional attributes that contributed to a determination of primary topic in that case. Speaking of which, Virginia (disambiguation) is weirdly formatted, relegating the people with the given name to the 'other uses' section, and in turn the given name article has a relatively short list of people, so it's all pretty bad. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:18, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No, CareAhLine has it exactly right. No one would expect an article about the state of Virginia to be titled "Virginia Woolf" and no one would expect an article about Virginia Woolf to be titled "Virginia". The number of pageviews each gets is therefore irrelevant, just as which one has a larger population or which one wrote better books are meaningless comparisons. (And I see nothing terribly wrong with Virginia (disambiguation).) Station1 (talk) 04:25, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I keep pasting this link, but nobody seems to be reading it... the guideline on primary topics at WP:PTOPIC describes what the criteria for this is, and literally none of what you wrote is "therefore irrelevant". Please, let's follow the fine guideline and not invent stuff on the spot. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Everyone here has read WP:PTOPIC, let's stick to arguments not insults. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 13:58, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Population and books and pageviews are all irrelevant when comparing the state of Virginia to Virginia Woolf because WP:PTOPIC is irrelevant when we have two different topics with two different names. It's like asking, Which is the primary topic, apples or apple sauce? We don't have to decide; it's a meaningless question. Station1 (talk) 18:20, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Again, no, that is a pointless comparison, because the contenders for the article title "Virginia" can be Virginia the state, Virginia the given name, etc; not specifically Woolfe. Woolfe's notability -- and a million other notable Virginia's -- merely factors into the weight of the given name's claim to the article title. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No, thats just not accurate. Those would not be factors in the the given name's claim to the article title... Only coverage of the given name itself and not simply people named that factors into weight. Virginia Wolff could indeed be the primary, it wouldn't for some absurd reason known only to Joy cover the given name Virginia instead of Virginia Wolff. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:56, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know what to say that would counter these utterly unsubstantiated claims any more. This is not how WP:AT works, it's not how it ever worked. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:30, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 8 August 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Post-relist, consensus is in favor of moving both articles, though a future RM could be held to determine the best location of Saba (island). Most editors agree that there are numerous articles that could use the Saba basename, and the island is not a clear primary topic based on long-term significance. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 08:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

– There's been an assumed WP:PTOPIC here for the island for many years now, but when I checked it out in external sources and in statistics, I couldn't justify it, because not a single lookup produced results consistent with the primary topic guidelines. The common and popular human name / pseudonym, together with the historical names, generally seem to have at least comparable long-term significance. The rationale is elaborated at length above in.
 * Saba → Saba (island)
 * Saba (disambiguation) → Saba

Now, what should the disambiguation marker be, I'm not sure. I initially proposed "Saba, Netherlands" -- perhaps the common meaning of "Netherlands" for most readers is Europe-centric, so using that might be too confusing? Maybe some of the more specific terms could be used - Caribbean Netherlands, Dutch Caribbean, Netherlands Antilles (which went out of use)? Saba (island) (or similar) is a distinct possibility, but there is another eponymous island in the Lesser Antilles, so this would necessitate keeping a hatnote. Saba (Antilles) is another possibility, not least because of the precedent of Saint Vincent (Antilles). -- Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 18:36, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Just a note that for Saba Island in the USVI "island" is part of the name, thats not true for Saba in the Netherlands. Also note that there is a Saba Rock in the BVI that is also an island but again it isn't named Saba. Theres no conflict here, theres nothing else named Saba which is remotely as important or notable. Stretching it to include names which include Saba but which aren't Saba is inappropriate. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:44, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know that most English readers will implicitly recognize the distinction of the island of Saba described here and the USVI Saba Island, that seems like a stretch to me, it's just a different position of a common word. (Nobody even mentioned Saba Rock.) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Aren't you going to propose renaming Saba Island to Saba Island (United States) and redirecting Saba Island to Saba Island (disambiguation)? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That's an orthogonal issue... but it's safe to say that with the other one having way fewer views, it's reasonable to assume that a hatnote would suffice to aid navigation there, esp. as the other one is an uninhabited islet. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:59, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I see a clear difference from the case here, Saba is clearly the primary of all topics named Saba and not something similar. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Clearly, this matter is not that clear. :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:08, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * We disagree, its not the end of the world. You want to see something that isn't clear? Look at a Saban family tree bahbumtis. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:43, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

 * don't move This is clearly the primary topic. Many other names bare the name Saba using either a different spelling, or have Saba as part of the name. The remaining options (eg the city) are relatively small, which is also shown by the size of their wikipedia page. I propose leaving things as they are. L.tak (talk) 16:56, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * First of all, WP:CLEARLY :) Secondly, this argument is nonsensical, it amounts to saying that human names on disambiguation pages are all WP:PTM violations. That is grossly out of touch with long-term practice. Saying that the preponderance of people looking up "Saba" are never going to be looking for the people named Saba or the historical kingdoms or any of the other topics in the long tail of disambiguation, that might be an argument, but it requires some justification other than "clearly". Especially because we are talking about a place that is relatively small by a number of conventional standards (like area and population). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:34, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Weak support, it's the most popular page, but there are tons that are on the DAB and it's hard to say if it's more popular than all of those combined. I would also probably split of a separate article for the Saba (name).--Ortizesp (talk) 18:16, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per the nominator and Ortizesp. ╠╣uw [ talk ] 08:59, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Clear primary topic. And Saba, Netherlands is a terrible title in any case, given it's nowhere near what most people would think of as the Netherlands. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:39, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * how is it clear, can you please elaborate a bit based on the guideline? (I've addressed the latter issue above.) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I see nothing else on the list that comes close to it in terms of long-term significance. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:56, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Not even the human name attested to for over a millenium? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:04, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Only as part of a name. The name by itself is not especially notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That's a curious argument, but isn't it a slippery slope? What is it that gives special notability to given names? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:41, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The same thing that gives wp:notability to anything else, significant coverage in independent WP:RS. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:29, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The point that seems to evade you here is that even the most notable given names will not have huge amounts of significant coverage in independent reliable sources. There can only be a handful of sentences about what "John" or "James" are, but that doesn't affect the fact that they are what people are conventionally navigated to when looking that up. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The point that has evaded you is that such a name is by definition not notable. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:08, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I thought by showing egregious examples that go glaringly against it it would become clearer how that is not really a meaningful point. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:13, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * We don't have an additional notability criteria for names, they have to comply with standard WP:N. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:22, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Which they do, if you read that guideline and apply it as intended - with some common sense. If you try to use it as a tool to beat people with... --Joy [shallot] (talk) 15:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The given name Saba has enough coverage to pass WP:GNG? This I will have to see... Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The given name and the surname are obviously of very low notability. However, what's relevant here is not the tiny group of readers who may be looking for information about the name, but the much larger group who use the surname to look up a particular person with that surname. And that's a valid search strategy: people with a particular surname are often referred to mononymously using the surname alone. Uanfala (talk) 12:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The same goes for given names, I bet there's a plethora of such references in the press in reference to the celebrities whose Wikipedia articles get more views than anything else. I just did a quick search and found "Saba's latest bridal shoot for Indian magazine leaves fans dumbfounded", "Hrithik-Saba party with Suzanne-Arslan Goni in Goa", "Actress Saba gets emotional while narrating her ordeal at airports" etc. It's often naturally disambiguated in these sources as well so it's not a major concern, but assuming that there will be no readers simply looking up 'who is this Saba?' would be short-sighted. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:05, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This isn't google, someone searching 'who is this Saba?' on wikipedia is doing it wrong... It doesn't work like that, our system can't interpret questions like google can. See the returns (note that this page is still the first result returned and will be regardless of name, if this is a genuine concern changing the name will have zero impact on it). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:00, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Or the country of the ancient Sabaeans? Srnec (talk) 21:00, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The Sabaeans are certainly notable. But the use of Saba to refer to their country is rarely seen. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It's fairly easy to find examples to the contrary:
 * https://www.britannica.com/place/Saba-ancient-kingdom-Arabia
 * https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/saba-sheba
 * https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/saba-and-sabeans
 * https://www.infoplease.com/search/encyclopedia/Saba
 * https://www.worldhistory.org/Kingdom_of_Saba/
 * But more to the point of this discussion, whenever I did a search in these same sources for just the term "Saba", it never short-circuits to the island in the Antilles. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Taking a gander at that list I don't think any of those are currently WP:RS in good standing. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you're saying at all, these are links to other English-language encyclopedias. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:12, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * But not all of those English-language encyclopedias are WP:RS, we care what WP:RS say but any argument based on what "other English-language encyclopedias" other than RS say is either disingenuous or incompetent. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:36, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Well-known encyclopedias are both recognized as reliable tertiary sources and also this has little to do with comparing methods of navigation. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:31, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Support its probably the most likely topic for the single word[] but unlikely to be primary.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 09:10, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This was relisted, so in an effort to make progress, I swapped out the proposed new title to "Saba (island)", as there was also a specific complaint against the previous proposal; the rationale remains the same. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:28, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:PRIMARYUSAGE. This article gets |Saba|Saba_(rapper)|Saba_(surah)|SABA_(electronics_manufacturer)|Saba_(plant)|Sab%C3%A1%7CSaba_(music)|Saba,_Iran almost 70% of pageviews among articles that are titled "Saba". The hatnote and dab page are sufficient for the minority of readers seeking other uses. Station1 (talk) 06:44, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You got that graph only by going out of your way to exclude all the people named Saba. We have actually had this argument before, so completely skipping over it and pretending it doesn't exist doesn't feel like a collaborative editing process :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 07:02, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't go out of my way at all. It was easy! Seriously, none of them were included because, unless I missed one, none of them are called simply "Saba" and therefore none of their articles would be titled simply "Saba". As others have correctly noted, they are partial title matches and irrelevant to the title of this article (with the exception of the rapper, who I did include). Station1 (talk) 07:30, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * But did you actually read what the partial title match guideline you linked says? "A link to an article title that merely contains part of the disambiguation page title, or a link that includes the page title in a longer proper name, where there is no significant risk of confusion between them, is considered a partial title match". How is there not a significant risk of confusion between people called Saba and the island and all the other topics called Saba? A similar thing holds for the kingdom of Saba, just because there's "kingdom of " that doesn't mean it's merely a partial match - it's a kingdom indeed referred to as Saba. It's like calling a John Smith not a 'John' and not a 'Smith' and the Kingdom of Denmark not a 'Denmark'. This is just not how normal readers behave. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:49, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The answer to your first question is yes. Your second question is a non-sequitur: Of course there is "a significant risk of confusion between people called Saba and the island and all the other topics called Saba", because those topics are not partial title matches; they are full matches. The chances of anyone expecting to find information about Lady Saba Holland, however, under the title "Saba" are practically zero. That is an example of a partial title match. We need not consider any article that could not be reasonably titled "Saba". Station1 (talk) 23:42, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Just like the existing Saba disambiguation page has listed people named Saba for years now, endless other terms have linked to eponymous people and anthroponymy articles. If the chances of anyone expecting to find information about that under those titles were practically zero, surely someone somewhere would have noticed this purported gross systemic error. Do you have any reference for this blanket assertion or anything similar to support it, such as previous discussions to this effect where such a consensus was reached (but somehow never propagated in practice)? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 00:07, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. Consensus is that lists of PTM names should not clutter up dab pages. Most lists of names are separate articles, if they exist at all. Please see WP:NAMELIST and MOS:DABNAME. - Station1 (talk) 00:31, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The links you named explicitly refute your earlier argument - they actually describe how people are listed at the eponymous titles, but are formatted variously depending on volume. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:44, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Not sure how you're getting that, but it's a tangential issue anyway. The main point is that the island is the primary usage for the title "Saba". Station1 (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm still not seeing support for that assertion. Who are these readers who make this fine distinction between names and titles? It just seems too contrived to me. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 13:50, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you brought this up @Station1. I was wondering why there are so many persons' names listed on the Saba DAB page, when according to WP:NAMELIST and MOS:DABNAME, the DAB page should only list people "frequently referred to simply by the single name (e.g., Elvis, Shakespeare)". So Saba's DAB page should only include names of people like Saba (rapper). Right? According to WP:NAMELIST, Saba's DAB page really ought to have "Saba (surname)" and "Saba (given name)" links listed, which link those lists of relevant people. Am I misinterpreting something? Thanks in advance for the clarification! CareAhLine (talk) 23:50, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's just that someone needs to go through the trouble of creating the said anthroponymy list articles (by doing a bunch of cut&paste). This doesn't impact the primary topic discussion much, though. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 09:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. Or they could all go to Saba (name) as Ortizesp suggested above. I don't mind doing it, but we should probably wait until this RM closes, so as not to prejudice the discussion. Station1 (talk) 10:24, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to bring it up again after this RM closes; and I'd be happy to help with the project of moving things to Saba (name) page (thanks for pointing out Ortizesp's suggestion). However, I wondered whether it did impact the primary topic discussion we are having since some people were including in their support arguments references to the the "sheer amount of" and "tons of" topics on the DAB page. No? CareAhLine (talk) 23:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree it certainly has. Station1 (talk) 05:42, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * While it's possible that casual readers mistook the sheer volume of people as individually qualified to be a primary topic, which is incorrect, them as a group are nevertheless a factor in the primary topic discussion even if you move them to anthroponymy articles. Any superficial analysis of Wikipedia content is likely to produce invalid results that do not serve actual readers. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:21, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The figure of 70% is based on a comparison with only 8 other articles, out of a total of over a hundred listed on the dab page. How were they selected? If the aim was to compare only the most popular articles, then that doesn't work as it excludes many at the top of the list, including, for example, the article about the kingdom of the Sabaeans. Or was the aim to exclude apparent partial title matches? That doesn't work either, as many eligible entries are excluded, like Saba (condiment) or, again, the ancient kingdom, which can be referred to as just "Saba". Uanfala (talk) 12:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * They were selected as having the largest number of pageviews of all articles that would be titled simply "Saba". There are others not shown but their pageviews are negligible and do not significantly affect the outcome (unless I've made a major mistake). The significant articles are primarily Saba at not quite 70% and Saba (rapper) at around 20%. Everything else adds up to around 10%. Saba (condiment) gets fewer than 1%. The strongest argument is for Sabaeans, but there is no proposal to change the title of that article, so there is no title conflict with that article and it is easily accessible directly from the hatnote on Saba. Station1 (talk) 23:42, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If the aim of the selection was to pick the most popular articles, then that wasn't clear at all: it included articles like the Iranian village with a single daily view, but excluded the condiment, which gets 8x as many. When deciding on the primary topic for a term, we need to look at all the extant encyclopedic topics that the term can refer to, not just the ones that have that term in their titles. If pageviews are to be used at all, then we'd need to take into account all the articles concerned (notice the island is barely the third most visited one?) and then apply lower weighting to the topics that can also be referred to using other names. Doing that for a hundred topics would be a tall order, and I don't think we need to in the first place: pageviews by themselves carry very little information about either usage or significance. Uanfala (talk) 11:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * How do you do that math and end up with a topic other than Saba as the primary? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't know how I could be clearer than "This article gets almost 70% of pageviews among articles that are titled 'Saba'." I would have added the condiment to the chart if I had noticed it, but at 8 views per day, or <1%, it is statistically insignificant. The island still gets close to 70% of pageviews. Your use of Massviews includes many irrelevant partial title matches. Eliminating those shows a high correlation with the Pageviews chart. Station1 (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The other 100 entries on the dab page are not "irrelevant". We may disagree about the weighting we may assign them, but there's no reason why we should exclude them completely. The figure of 70% based on a small sample of pages is as meaningless as, for example, the figure of 8.5%, which you get out of the massviews if you apply to everything a weighting of 1. Uanfala (talk) 10:28, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There's really no fundamental disagreement about that methodology. It's just that I give a near-zero weight to Saba Azad, Help:Disambiguation, Saba Ali Khan, Saba Qamar, Pachira aquatica, Sabians, Saba Hameed, Sheba, Saba Mubarak, etc., because almost no one would expect those articles to be titled "Saba". Station1 (talk) 22:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, and this also applies to all the other eponymous topics. :) --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:23, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * What eponymous topics? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:17, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Apologies, the correct term in that case should be homonymous instead (they don't necessarily share etymology). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 20:25, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * None of the listed topics are homonymous with Saba. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * They are though. To repeat a point that has been made several times already (with apologies to anyone who may actually have read the discussion so far!), Sheba is known by other names including Saba, Saba Qamar is also sometimes referred to, in broad enough contexts, as Saba, etc. Reasonable editors may disagree on the relative weight those topics should be assigned here, but I don't think it's a defensible proposition to insist that they should just be ignored. Uanfala (talk) 10:59, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Unless we rename the page Sheba to Saba its not homonymous. Saba Qamar is not homonymous with Saba because just Saba alone does not mean Saba Qamar. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:49, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * You're fundamentally misunderstanding how these things work. We're not interested here which among a set of synonyms happens to have been chosen for an article's title, we're interested in whether there is a primary topic among the articles that can be referred to by a given term. See the first two sentences of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, as well as the third bullet point at the top of the overarching guidelines. Uanfala (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not confused, I just know what a homonym is... For example Saba Qamar and Saba are not homonyms despite your claims to the contrary. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:54, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Support. Saba is a small island with a population of 2,000 people. Its main claim to notability is the fact that it's not part of any bigger subnational entity and so shows up on the lists of countries and territories that people with a particular type of geeky inclination may use to sort their knowledge of the world. That's not a very strong claim to notability. Among the contemporary places with the same name, there are several with greater population; Sabá alone has 9x as many people. And looking at the other topics with the name: two ancient kingdoms, a music scale, a sura of the Quran, a genus of plants, a make of car, several manufacturing companies, a rapper, an Italian condiment, an early Christian saint... it's really difficult to see why the island could be seen to have greater long-term significance than everything else combined. I don't see any of the primary topic defenses above as holding water either. Uanfala (talk) 12:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * That can't be its main claim to notability... Thats only been true since 2010 when the Netherlands Antilles was dissolved. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Saba has other claims to notability. Mt. Scenery, for instance, is the highest point in the Kingdom of the Netherlands. And Saba's airport, Juancho E. Yrausquin Airport, currently has the world's smallest commercial runway. CareAhLine (talk) 18:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Support. There are many other notable articles with the same name. The ancient kingdom is also commonly known as Sabaʾ. There is no primary topic. Vpab15 (talk) 09:09, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Station1. I concur that the people named "Saba" are PTMs and should not be used for determination of the primary topic, and this island gets a lion's share of pageviews of the topics simply named "Saba". Plus, we do not really have a good disambiguator available, so the resulting title would be awkward. I don't see much reason to disrupt the status quo. No such user (talk) 12:19, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is the second time there's been a reference to partial title matches, but WP:PTM actually has an elaborate description of specific and generic parts for place names. Even if we steer clear of extending this logic implicitly to human names (where you could have a WP:NAMELIST kind of a debate about what qualifies for listing as the specific part), this still doesn't explain why references to San Saba wouldn't be relevant (where "Saba" is clearly the specific part and "San" is the generic part), since they appear very prominently in source searches for the term Saba, as I've shown in the section above. I went looking for other traffic statistics similar to pageviews, and found https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=saba,%2Fm%2F01qz3s,%2Fm%2F04vf_0 which has a distinction between the island and other terms, and there's no apparent correlation between searches for the island and the search term in general. How is this not a classic of a lack of a primary topic based on statistics? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 16:34, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * But our titles aren't search engine terms. Even if various San Sabas are more popular results for the search term Saba, that does not imply that "Saba" alone is ambiguous. Popularity of "San Saba" has no much value in determining primary topic for "Saba", at least not more that New York has in relation to York. No such user (talk) 20:37, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason is that the typical English reader generally knows about the distinct concepts of 'New York' and 'York', and there's fairly established primary usage for each of these, and then we're comfortable short-circuiting navigation. I don't think we can make such claims for 'Saba' based on the data. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:38, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no way that the typical English reader knows about York (a small city of 200k), unless of course by English you mean from England and not a speaker of the English language. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:13, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * So we're discussing a 'small city' of 200k in the discussion of an island of 2k which is supposed to be primary? :) Anyway, yes, there's going to be a modicum amount of bias towards English-native topics in the English Wikipedia. Conversely, there's supposed to be a lack of bias towards other topics. You can see in the aforementioned Google Trends how in the Netherlands, the island clearly tops the charts, but nowhere else. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Primary =/= known by a majority of the world's english speaking population. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:14, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't see how that has any relation to what I just wrote there. It's exactly because the majority of the world's English-speaking population will not recognize the term "Saba" as the island that there is supposed to be a lack of bias towards the island in Wikipedia navigation. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:01, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * My point is thats not the standard, you would be hard pressed to find a term which was recognized by the majority of the world's English-speaking population... Such a term might not even exist. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I have no idea why we're discussing that straw man argument here. Can we get back to the topic at hand? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Its not a straw man, its literally your argument "The reason is that the typical English reader generally knows about the distinct concepts of 'New York' and 'York'," if you didn't mean to say "the typical English reader" you shouldn't have. You can't screw up and then cover your screw up by declaring your own argument to be a straw man once challenged. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:04, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a meaningless argument because it's in relation to a comparison to York and New York that is not actually relevant here, and I've explained already why that is so (and I disagree with your interpretation of that). We've strayed a few levels of abstraction away from the matter of Saba, and nobody other than the two of us is interested in following this tangent, nor should they be. We're adding more walls of text to a discussion and thereby making it less likely others will get involved. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:58, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, this distinction between traffic from page views and traffic from search engines is not really clear to me with respect to the determination of primary topic... how are page views better when we've effectively spent the last N years steering people towards this article and away from the others? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 22:46, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Support - clear absence of a primary topic, given the page views etc. — Amakuru (talk) 16:01, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose, this is clearly the primary topic. No other Saba comes close and some seem to be misunderstanding how we treat partial matches. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:11, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I would not agree that Sabaeans and Mar Saba are partial title matches, since there is no reason in principle they couldn't be at plain Saba. Srnec (talk) 19:48, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
 * We already have a page for Mar Saba minus the critical "Mar" part... thats the guy its named after, Sabbas the Sanctified. Mar Saba could not be Saba. The article Sabaeans is about a people, not their land... Are you thinking of Sheba? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No. Mar Saba = Saint Saba = Sabbas the Sanctified. "Saba" is as much his name as Sabbas. I forgot our Mar Saba page was about the monastery. The Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity has him under "Saba, S.", which is how the Oxford Classical Dictionary treats the Gothic martyr. "Saba" was the name of the tribal confederation that became a kingdom. Any distinction between "Saba" (land/polity) and "Sabaeans" (people) is somewhat artificial. (Our separate treatment of Sheba is weird.) Srnec (talk) 20:29, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Support – The sheer amount of notable topics with the name 'Saba', combined with the rather weighty long-term significance of some of them like the Kingdom of Saba, strongly suggests that there is no primary topic here. As has been noted by others, Saba (island) seems the most likely search target, but I'm not convinced that it meets the requirement of being more likely than all the other topics combined. ☿ Apaugasma  ( talk  ☉) 19:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Islands, WikiProject Caribbean, and WikiProject Disambiguation have been notified of this discussion. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 16:54, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support there is no primary topic. --Privybst (talk) 17:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Saba (island)


text:
Veðrfölnir and eagle

In Norse mythology, Veðrfölnir (Old Norse "storm pale", "wind bleached", or "wind-witherer" ) is a hawk sitting between the eyes of an unnamed eagle that is perched on top of the world tree Yggdrasil. Veðrfölnir is sometimes modernly anglicized as Vedrfolnir, Vedurfolnir or Vetrfolnir.

The unnamed eagle is attested in both the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, while Veðrfölnir is solely attested in the Prose Edda. In both the Poetic Edda and the Prose Edda, the squirrel Ratatoskr carries messages between the unnamed eagle and Nidhöggr, the worm that resides below the world tree. Scholars have proposed theories about the implications of the birds.

Attestations
In the Poetic Edda poem Grímnismál, the god Odin (disguised as Grimnir) says that:

The eagle is again attested in chapter 16 of the Prose Edda book Gylfaginning, yet here with the company of Veðrfölnir. In the chapter, Gangleri (described as king Gylfi in disguise) asks the enthroned figure of High what other notable facts there are to know about Yggdrasil. High responds (Veðrfölnir is here anglicized as Vedrfolnir):
 * There is much to be told. An eagle sits at the top of the ash, and it has knowledge of many things. Between its eyes sits the hawk called Vedrfolnir [...]. The squirrel called Ratatosk runs up and down the ash. He tells slanderous gossip, provoking the eagle and Nidhogg.

Theories
John Lindow points out that Snorri does not say why a hawk should be sitting between the eyes of an eagle or what role it may play. Lindow theorizes that "presumably the hawk is associated with the wisdom of the eagle" and that "perhaps, like Odin's ravens, it flies off acquiring and bringing back knowledge".

Hilda Ellis Davidson says that the notion of an eagle atop a tree and Nídhöggr coiled around the roots of the tree has parallels in other cosmologies from Asia, and that Norse cosmology may have been influenced by these Asiatic cosmologies from a northern route. On the other hand, Davidson adds, some Germanic peoples are attested as worshipping their deities in open forest clearings, and that a sky god was particularly connected with the oak tree, and therefore "a central tree was a natural symbol for them also".

title: Veðrfölnir and eagle


text:
Talk:Homer Stille Cummings

Untitled
Not having the time to re-write now, below is cut from DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY, Supplement six, 1956-1960 (http://www.kichline.com/carrie/ICFA/homer.htm):

"U.S. attorney general, was born April 30, 1870 in Chicago, Ill., son of Uriah C. Cummings manufacturer and authority on cement, and Audie Schuyler Stille. Homer graduated from the Heathcote School in Buffalo, N.Y.  He received the Ph.B degree from the Sheffield School of Yale University in 1891 and the L.L.B. from Yale Law School in 1893.  He then practiced law in Stamford, Conn., and in 1909 joined with Charles D. Lockwood to form Cummings and Lockwood.  He remained a partner in the firm until 1933.

Cummings entered politics almost immediately. In 1896 he supported William Jennings Bryan, and Connecticut Democrats nominated him for secretary of state. The decision for Bryan rested on his conviction that government, law, and the Democratic party were the instruments for the achievement of social justice in America. His progressive sensibility was reinforced by his gifts as an orator. He was an incisive, dramatic trial lawyer, and an astute, imperturtable, and loyal political manager.

In 1900, 1901, and 1904, Cummings was elected mayor of Stamford, where he instituted a progressive municipal program. He constructed and improved streets and sewers, reorganized the police and fire departments, and secured a shorefront park, later named for him. He was nominated for congressman-at-large in 1902 and for U.S. Senator in 1910 and 1916. Each time he lost narrowly. He served as state's attorney for Fairfield County from 1914 to 1924. During Cummings' last year as county prosecutor, a vagrant, Harold Israel, was indicted for the murder of a popular parish priest on a street corner in Bridgeport. The evidence, including a confession, appeared overwhelming, but Cummings, after scrupulous investigation, became convinced of Israel's innocence. In a gripping courtroom scene he asked for and secured dismissal of the charge. In 1931 the National Commission on Law Observance and Enforcement (the Wickersham Commission) praised this act, and a film "BOOMERANG" (1947) dramatized the affair.

Cummings began his association with the national Democratic party in 1900, when he was named committeeman from Connecticut, a post he held until 1925. He was a delegate-at-large to the 1900 Democratic convention, the first of many conventions he was to attend. In the 1912 campaign he directed the Democratic speaker's bureau from Washington, D.C. He served as vice-chairman of the national committee from 1913 to 1919 and as chairman from 1919 to 1920. Cummings greatly admired Woodrow Wilson and delivered a passionate keynote address at the 1920 convention in praise of the stricken president.

Cummings vainly attempted to calm the bitterly divided Democratic convention of 1924. As chairman of Committee on Resolutions, he tried to formulate a compromise plank on the controversial issue of the Ku Klux Klan. Unlike most Northeasteners, however, he supported William G. McAdoo over Alfred E. Smith for the presidential nomination. For the rest of the decade his political activity was restrained.

Cummings married four times. His marriage to Helen W. Smith in 1897 ended in divorce in 1907. They had one son (Dickinson Schuyler CUMMINGS). His 1909 marriage to Marguerite T. Owings was dissolved in 1928. The marriage to Mary Cecilia Waterbury in 1929 was happy; she died ten years later. He published a memoir. "The Tired Sea" (1939), as a tribute to Cecilia. In 1942 he married Julia Alter, who died in 1955.

With the coming of the Great Depression, Cummings reentered politics. In 1932 he helped persuade twenty-four senators and numerous congressmen to announce their support for Franklin D. Roosevelt. At Chicago he planned strategy, operated as floor manager, and delivered a resounding seconding speech. Following the election, Roosevelt chose Cummings as governor-general of the Philippines. However, when Senator Walsh, who had been designated attorney general, died on Mar. 2, 1933, Roosevelt named Cummings to lead the Justice Department on Mar. 4. Cummings accepted the post on a temporary, emergency basis, and then, a few weeks later, permanently. He served almost six years as attorney general; only William Wirt served longer (1817-1829).

Cummings transformed the Department of Justice. He established uniform rules of practice and procedure in federal courts. Appalled by the crime waves of the Prohibition era, he secured the passage of twelve laws that buttressed the "Lindbergh law" on kidnapping, made bank robbery a federal crime, cracked down on interstate transportation of stolen property, and extended federal regulations over firearms. He strengthened the Federal Bureau of Investigation, called a national crime conference, supported the establishment of Alcatraz as a model prison for hardened offenders, and reorganized the internal administration of the department. In 1937 Cummings published "We Can Prevent Crime, and, with Carl McFarlan, an assistant attorney general, "Federal Justice," a departmental history, "The Selected Papers of Homer Cummings" (1939), edited by Carl B. Swisher, supplemented the history.

Cummings's path as protector of New Deal programs was thorny. During his first week as attorney general, he advised Roosevelt that the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 permitted the president to close banks and regulate gold hoarding and export. Cummings personally argued the right of the government to ban gold payments before the Supreme court and won the "gold clause" cases. The department's defense of subsequent administration measures was notoriously unsuccessful, however. During 1935-1936, the Court, frequently by 5 to 4 votes, overthrew eight key statutes, including the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) and the Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA).

The obtuseness of the conservative Court majority rankled. Cummings was eager to expand the judiciary and was outraged by the proliferation of lawsuits and injunctions against the government. After the election of 1936, Roosevelt instructed him to draft legislation for court reform. Neither wished to alter the Constitution. Both were attracted by an idea proposed earlier by conservative Justice James McReynolds, to add a judge for every judge who refused to retire at age seventy at full pay. Such a measure might give the president the opportunity to appoint fifty new judges, including six to the Supreme Court. Roosevelt launched the proposal, prepared secretly by Cummings, on Feb. 5, 1937. The uproar that confronted the "court-packing plan" is well known. After 168 days the Senate killed the bill by returning it to committee.

Cummings retired on Jan 2, 1939. He entered private law practice in Washington and instituted a spring golf tournament that annually brought executives, lawyers, and politicians together. He also retained his interest in the Connecticut Democratic party, along with a residence in Greenich, and served on the Greenich Town Committee until 1951. He died September 10, 1956 in Washington, D.C." --Tony Hecht 14:46, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No mention of J. Bruce Kremer.
Some comment on the close relationship between Cummings and Kremer, especially after 1932, would seem to be in order. See Pearson & Allen's Washington Merry-go-Round articles during 1930's. Jwilsonjwilson (talk) 02:31, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Homer Stille Cummings


text:
Nathaniel Ramsey

Nathaniel Ramsey (May 1, 1741– October 23, 1817) was an American lawyer and soldier from Cecil County, Maryland. Ramsey fought in the Revolutionary War, and was a member of the Congress of the Confederation.

Life
Ramsey was born in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. He was the elder brother of David Ramsay, though the brothers spelled their name differently. He graduated from the College of New Jersey (later Princeton University) in 1767 and then read law. He settled in northeastern Maryland, and was admitted to the bar in Cecil County in 1771. Ramsey was married to Margaret Jane Peale, known to her family as Jenny, about 1771. Margaret Jane Peale Ramsey often followed the Continental Army following the Battle of Brooklyn.

Margaret died in 1788. Ramsey remarried in 1790 to Charlotte Hall, daughter of Colonel Aquilla Hall (1727 - 1779), a prominent citizen of Harford County, Maryland.

He was the brother-in-law of artist Charles Willson Peale, who is best remembered for his portrait paintings of leading figures of the American Revolution and for establishing the Philadelphia Museum, one of the first museums in the United States.

Revolutionary War service
Ramsey was a delegate to the Maryland Convention (the revolutionary assembly) in 1775. In 1776 he joined the Continental Army as a captain in Colonel Smallwood's 1st Maryland Regiment, and went north in time to see action in the Battle of Long Island in August. In December he was promoted to lieutenant colonel and placed in command of the 3rd Maryland Regiment. He led them in the defense of Philadelphia in 1777.

At the Battle of Monmouth, in June 1778, Ramsey was asked by General Washington to stop the British advance after General Lee's initial retreat, and gain time for Washington to rally his other troops. He did so, but his regiment took heavy casualties. Ramsey himself was seriously wounded, left for dead, and taken prisoner. By the time he was exchanged, his regiment had gone south with General Nathanael Greene's forces. He returned to Maryland, and his only remaining military role was in recruiting. He retired from the army on January 1, 1781, and resumed the practice of law in Cecil County. At the conclusion of the Revolutionary War, Ramsey was admitted as an original member of The Society of the Cincinnati of Maryland and served as the first Treasurer of the Maryland Society.

After the war
Ramsey moved to Baltimore, Maryland in 1783, and practiced law there. He represented Maryland in the Congress of the Confederation in New York in 1786 and 1787. He was a Federalist, and after the establishment of the Federal government in 1789, President Washington appointed him the first U.S. Marshal for the District of Maryland, with his offices in Baltimore. He held this post from 1790 to 1798. In addition, he was named as Port Captain for Baltimore, serving from 1794 until his death in 1817. He died in Baltimore and is buried in Westminster Hall and Burying Ground.

title: Nathaniel Ramsey


text:
Shigeru Izumiya

Shigeru Izumiya (泉谷 しげる Izumiya Shigeru, born May 11, 1948, in Aomori, raised in Meguro, Tokyo) is a Japanese poet, folk singer, actor, tarento. He established the record company For Life Records with Takuro Yoshida, Yosui Inoue, and Hitoshi Komuro in 1975. He also directed the 1986 film Death Powder (Desu Paudā).

Between August 1995 and March 1996, Izumiya co-hosted the Satellaview-based weekly SoundLink Magazine, "King of After School" (放課後の王様), with Ayumi Hamasaki.

Singles
1970s
 * Kaerimichi c/w Gimu (帰り道c/w義務) (1971)
 * Shunkashuutou c/w Hinekure Komoriuta (春夏秋冬 c/wひねくれ子守歌) (1972)
 * Haru no Karatsu Kaze c/w Onou (春のからっ風 c/wおー脳) (1973)
 * Nemure Nai Yoru c/w Ran . Ran . Ran (眠れない夜c/w乱・乱・乱) (1974)
 * Samui Kuni Kara Kita Tegami c/w 1/2 Burusu (寒い国から来た手紙c/w1/2ブルース) (1975)
 * Kare to Kanojo c/w Kurenai no Tsubasa (彼と彼女c/w紅の翼) (1976)
 * Denkousekka ni Gin no Kutsu c/w Kettei! Honki . Furikake . Tonku (電光石火に銀の靴c/w決定!ホンキー・ふりかけ・トンク) (1977)
 * Tabidate Nyoubou c/w Tasogare no Orenji . Rodo (旅立て女房c/w黄昏のオレンジ・ロード) (1977)
 * Hadaka no Machi c/w Reiko (裸の街c/wレイコ) (1978)
 * Detoroito . Poka c/w Onna Tachihe (デトロイト・ポーカーc/w女たちへ) (1979)
 * Ore no Onna c/w Ou no Yami (俺の女c/w王の闇) (1979)

1980s
 * Rei . Rei . Rei c/w Kasshoku no Serusuman (レイ・レイ・レイc/w褐色のセールスマン) (1980)
 * Eejanaika c/w I.BO! Konya ha Tetsuya Daze (ええじゃないかc/wI.BO!今夜は徹夜だぜ) (1981)
 * Sairentoman c/w Chikashitsu no Hiro (サイレントマンc/w地下室のヒーロー) (1982)
 * 39°8' c/w Himitsu Naki Buru (39°8′c/w秘密なきブルー) (1983)
 * UNDER PRICK c/w HAIR STYLE(1984)
 * Yasei no Baraddo c/w Nikudan Ressha Ni Akai Bara (野生のバラッドc/w肉弾列車に赤いバラ) (1987)
 * Nagai Tomo Tono Hajimari Ni c/w Nemure Nai Yoru (長い友との始まりにc/w眠れない夜) (live, 1988)
 * Shunkashuutou c/w Rokkunroru Nya Kin Kakaru (春夏秋冬 c/w ロックンロールにゃ金かかる) (1988)
 * Hareruya c/w Ryuuketsu no Narawashi (ハレルヤc/w流血のならわし) (1989)

1990s
 * Sakebu Hitosasayaku c/w Munou (叫ぶひとささやくc/wムノウ) (1991)
 * Naze, Konna Jidai ni... c/w Deino . Araivu ~ Kyouryuujidai (なぜ、こんな時代に...c/wディノ・アライヴ～恐竜時代) (1993)
 * Hageshii Kisetsu c/w Fuyu no Hikari (激しい季節 c/w 冬の光) (1994)
 * Toshi no Yuubae c/w Tsunahiki (都市の夕映え c/w つなひき) (1994)
 * Eien no Yakusoku c/w Heddoraito (永遠の約束 c/w ヘッドライト) (1995)
 * It's gonna be ALRIGHT c/w Getto (It's gonna be ALRIGHTc/wゲットー)(1995)
 * Ashita Mo Kyou no Yume no Tsuduki wo c/w Souru Dekai Hanashi (明日も今日の夢の続きをc/wソウルでかい噺) (1998)

2000s
 * Gegege no Kitarou (ゲゲゲの鬼太郎) (2007)
 * Terebi Anime (Gegege no Kitarou) Dai 5 Saku Opuningutema (テレビアニメ『ゲゲゲの鬼太郎』第5作オープニングテーマ)
 * Subete Jidai no Seinishite (すべて時代のせいにして) (2008)
 * Raibu Kaijou . Tuuhan Gentei Hanbai (4 Kyoku Makishi) (ライブ会場・通販限定販売 (4曲マキシ))
 * Umare Ochi Ta Mono He / BIG BOY!! (生まれ落ちた者へ／BIG BOY!!) (2009)

Albums
1970s
 * Izumiya Shigeru Toujou (泉谷しげる登場) (1971)
 * Shun . Ka . Shuu. Tou (春・夏・秋・冬) (1972)
 * Chikyuu wa O-Matsuri Sawagi (地球はお祭り騒ぎ) (1972, CD rereleased in 2006)
 * Hikari to Kage (光と影) (1973)
 * Ougon Kyou Jidai (黄金狂時代) (1974)
 * Raivu!! Izumitani ~Ousama Tachino Yoru ~ (ライヴ!!泉谷～王様たちの夜～)(1975)
 * Kazoku (家族) (1976)
 * Isuto Karano Atsui Kaze (イーストからの熱い風) (1976)
 * Hikari Ishi no Kyojin (光石の巨人) (1977)
 * '80 no Baraddo ('80のバラッド) (1978)
 * Tokai no Ranna (都会のランナー) (1979)

1980s
 * Orunaitoraibu (オールナイトライブ) (1980)
 * NEWS (1982)
 * 39°8´ (1983)
 * REAL TIME (1984)
 * ELEVATOR (1984)
 * SCAR PEOPLE (1986)
 * Hoe Ru Baraddo (吠えるバラッド) (1988)
 * EARLY TIME (1988)
 * HOWLING LIVE (1988)
 * IZUMIYA SELF COVERS (1988)
 * '90s Baraddo ('90s バラッド) (1989)

1990s
 * Sakebu Hito Sasayaku (叫ぶひと囁く) (1991)
 * Gerou Sanjou (下郎参上) (1991)
 * Kesubaikesu (ケースバイケース) (1991)
 * Riaru . Taimu (リアル・タイム) (1992)
 * HOT TYPHOON FROM　EAST (1992)
 * WILD BLOOD (1993)
 * Jigajisan (自画自賛) (1993)
 * Hitori Fokugerira! LIVE!! (ひとりフォークゲリラ!LIVE!!) (1993)
 * Messeji . Songusu (メッセージ・ソングス) (1994)
 * Tsuioku no Eitobito (追憶のエイトビート) (1995)
 * Zenshinzenrei ~Life to soul~ (全身全霊～Life to soul～) (1996)
 * Taiketsu ~Fukushuu Suruha Ware Niari~ (対決～復讐するは我にあり～) (1997)
 * Watashi Niha Yume Gaaru (私には夢がある) (1998)
 * Besuto Ban (ベスト盤) (1998)
 * Izumitani Shigeru LIVE Ten (泉谷しげる LIVE展) (1999)
 * Besumento . Tepusu (ベースメント・テープス) (1999)

2000s
 * IRA (2000)
 * Kishikaisei (起死回生) (2001)
 * R-15 (2002)
 * Izumitani Shigeru 10 Maigumi BOX Setto (Kuroi Kapan) (泉谷しげる10枚組BOXセット「黒いカパン」) (2007, Limited Edition DVD Box set)
 * Subete Jidai no Seinishite Puremiamusetto (すべて時代のせいにして プレミアムセット) (2008)
 * Subete Jidai no Seinishite (すべて時代のせいにして) (2008)
 * Besutoarubamu <2 Maigumi> (ベストアルバム〈2枚組〉) (2008)
 * Raivu!! Izumitani ~Ousama Tachino Yoru~ (ライヴ!!泉谷～王様たちの夜～) (2008)

Film

 * Eijanaika (1981)
 * Death Powder (1986)
 * Aitsu ni Koishite (1987)
 * Pom Poko (1994), Gonta (voice)
 * Doraemon: Nobita in the Wan-Nyan Spacetime Odyssey (2004) (voice)
 * Godzilla: Final Wars (2004)
 * Ode to Joy (2006)
 * Black Widow Business (2016)
 * Fukushima 50 (2020)
 * A Morning of Farewell (2021)
 * Tsuyukusa (2022)
 * Dr. Coto's Clinic 2022 (2022), Shigeo Ando

Television

 * Dr. Coto's Clinic (2003–06), Shigeo Ando

title: Shigeru Izumiya