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Buangkok MRT station

Buangkok MRT station is an underground Mass Rapid Transit (MRT) station on the North East Line (NEL) in Singapore. Located underneath Sengkang Central, near the junction with Compassvale Bow, the station serves the residential town of Buangkok. The station will also serve a future bus interchange and Sengkang Grand Residencies – an upcoming integrated development. The station is operated by SBS Transit.

First announced in March 1996 and beginning construction in April 1997, Buangkok station was one of two stations on the NEL to remain closed when the line began operations on 20 June 2003. After intense lobbying by grassroots leaders and residents, including a white elephant protest incident in 2005, the station opened on 15 January 2006. Buangkok station is a designated Civil Defence shelter. The two entrances of the station are enveloped by white Teflon sheets. An Art-in-Transit artwork by Vincent Leow, Water, Nature & Contemporary, is displayed at this station.

Construction
The North East Line (NEL) project, which was first proposed in 1984, received government approval in January 1996. Buangkok station was among the sixteen NEL stations announced by communications minister Mah Bow Tan that March.

The contract for the construction of Sengkang and Buangkok stations was awarded to a joint venture between Sato Kogyo and Hock Lian Seng Engineering on 26 April 1997. The S$166.4 million (US$ million) contract included the construction of 1.6 km connecting tunnels between the stations and 1.2 km reception tunnels to Sengkang Depot.

The station was constructed in a forested area proposed for redevelopment into a new town. After the forest was cleared and the vacated warehouses demolished, the station was constructed using the "open-cut" and "bottom-up" methods. The site was excavated to a depth of up to 20 m, and work on the station then proceeded from the bottom up. Following the station's construction, roads were built to connect the station with existing roads.

Delay in opening
Just days before the opening of the NEL, operator SBS Transit announced on 17 June 2003 that two stations on the line – Woodleigh and Buangkok – would not open along with the other stations. This was because of the lack of development in their respective areas. At the time, housing demand declined due to the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis and the economic downturn following the September 11 attacks. Consequently, the Housing and Development Board cut back on its development plans in the Singapore northeast area. The operator said keeping the stations closed would reduce operating costs by S$2–3 million. They said the station would need a daily ridership of 5,000 for the station to be "commercially viable" and apologised for the "late notice", saying the decision to keep the stations close was only made in May when the NEL fare structure was approved. SBS Transit said the station's closure was not an "easy decision" and that they had deliberated on the matter for months.

Residents around the station were upset by the sudden decision to keep Buangkok station closed, as grassroots leaders had previously assured them that the station would be opened. A Member of Parliament (MP) for Pasir Ris–Punggol, Charles Chong, echoed the residents' sentiments. A poll of residents living within 700 m of the station showed that they were willing to walk the long distance to the station, contrary to SBS Transit's justification that very few commuters would be willing to walk at least 400 m to a station. Residents polled also said it would be more convenient for them to use Buangkok station than the adjacent stations of Sengkang and Hougang. However, SBS Transit said the poll, launched by Chong and conducted with academics from the National University of Singapore (NUS), was flawed and did not take into account the frequency of commuters' usage.

The government acknowledged SBS Transit had made mistakes in delaying the announcement of the station's closure but stood by the operator's decision and rationale due to low passenger demand in the area. At the official opening ceremony of the NEL on 28 August 2003, deputy prime minister Lee Hsien Loong said Buangkok station would open in 2006 after more residential flats were built in the area. In the meantime, the government provided more feeder bus services for residents in the area. In response to residents' plans to gift a white elephant statue to the operator, Lee quipped that Buangkok station would be a "bigger white elephant" if the station were to serve no passengers after its opening.

White elephant incidents and station opening
To address SBS Transit's doubts about whether commuters would be willing to make daily trips to a station 400 m away, Chong and other grassroots leaders launched another survey on 27 July 2005. The survey interviewed 495 residents near Punggol station, finding that 65% of the respondents who lived within 400 m from the station walked there seven times a week. SBS Transit was unconvinced by the polls, saying there needed to be enough people who were willing to walk the long distance to Buangkok station. Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong said the Land Transport Authority (LTA) would reevaluate the distance criteria and expand the catchment radius from 400 m to 500 m, as there were about 2,300 homes within 500 m of Buangkok station.

Youth minister Vivian Balakrishnan visited Punggol South on 28 August; during his visit, eight white cardboard elephants were erected along the road towards Buangkok station. This prompted the minister to visit the closed station. In a dialogue session with the residents, he assured them that the station's opening would be a "matter of time" following the construction of the 2,000 residential units. Dissatisfaction with the station's continued closure had increased after the announcement of transport fare hikes. After the minister's visit, the elephant cut-outs were removed.

On 1 September, the police launched an investigation into the cut-outs under the Public Entertainment and Meetings Act following a complaint. Residents and community leaders expressed shock at the investigation, saying there was no ill intent and that the cut-outs were a "creative way" to bring the issue up to the minister. The investigation was commented by sociologist Chua Beng Huat on The Straits Times forum as "paranoid", pointing out how the incident was treated by the press as a "national issue" due to Singapore's single-tier government. Chua had also called to distinguish between the varying degrees of importance of community matters in Singapore as he believed those who put up the cut-outs did not intend to challenge the government. On 6 October, the police closed the investigation without pressing charges, though they sternly warned one veteran grassroots leader. Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng clarified that the investigation was initiated because they could not selectively enforce legislation, or else the law would become "the real white elephant".

Following the incident, Yeo asked the LTA to re-examine whether there was adequate passenger demand to justify the station's opening. The expected opening date was further pushed to 2008, following projections for the housing development plans for the area. At the time, only 500 residential units had been completed within 400 m of the station. Nevertheless, the LTA continued to review the feasibility of opening the station sooner. On 11 November, Yeo announced that Buangkok station would open the following January after SBS Transit agreed to the opening due to reduced losses from its rail operations. Yeo denied pressuring the operator to open the station and said the opening was due to "tireless appeals" by Chong. In December, the opening date was scheduled for 15 January. Before the opening, SBS Transit staff tested the station's equipment and had the station cleaned up.

For the carnival at the station's opening event, students from Raffles Girls' School were invited by Punggol South grassroots to sell their remaining T-shirts bearing "Save the White Elephants". Following the white elephant incident, the students, taken an interest in current affairs, had formed a group called "Project White Elephant", aimed at galvanising the youth to take an active role in politics. The T-shirts were created and sold to raise funds for a charity, Youth Guidance. During the preparations for the carnival at the station's opening event, the police sent an advisory to the students and carnival organisers that a fund-raising permit was required for them to sell the shirts, while also warning the organisers that "wearing the T-shirts en masse may be misconstrued by some as an offence under the Miscellaneous Offences (Public & Order & Nuisance) (Assemblies & Processions) Rules". The police said they would make an "exception" to process the fund-raising permit in time for the event. No one, not even the girls selling them, ultimately wore the outfits at the station's opening, and the celebrations proceeded without any issues. Wong later apologised for the police's overreaction to the incident.

The station opened as scheduled "with much fanfare", beginning with a walk-a-jog to the station led by the event's guest-of-honour defence minister Teo Chee Hean. The station's opening was marked by a ribbon-cutting ceremony, and station operations began at 12:55pm. After its opening, the station averaged only 1,386 daily riders instead of the expected 6,000. Many residents still travelled to the adjacent Sengkang and Hougang stations due to their amenities. SBS Transit, after saying that it was still "too early to draw a conclusion" about ridership, remained committed to keeping the station open to serve future developments nearby.

Details
Buangkok station serves the North East Line (NEL) of the Singapore MRT and is between the Hougang and Sengkang stations. The station code is NE15. Being part of the NEL, the station is operated by SBS Transit. The station operates daily from about 5:45   a.m. to 12:25    a.m. Train frequencies vary from 2.5 to 5 minutes.

Buangkok station is located in Sengkang along the road of Sengkang Central, near the junction with Compassvale Bow. The station has two entrances serving the surrounding HDB flats and two schools: Palm View Primary School and North Vista Primary School. The station also serves Sengkang Grand Residencies, an integrated development including a retail mall and an upcoming bus interchange.

The station was designed by Altoon + Porter Architects and 3HP Architects. Unlike the other NEL stations, the entrances of Buangkok station do not employ glass in their design; white Teflon sheets supported by metal frames envelop the entrances, resembling a circus tent. The station is designated as a Civil Defence (CD) shelter; it is designed to accommodate at least 7,500 people and withstand airstrikes and chemical attacks. Equipment essential for the operations in the CD shelter is mounted on shock absorbers to prevent damage during a bombing. When the electrical supply to the shelter is disrupted, there are backup generators to keep operations going. The shelter has dedicated built-in decontamination chambers and dry toilets with collection bins that will send human waste out of the shelter.

Like all other NEL stations, the platforms are wheelchair-accessible. A tactile system, consisting of tiles with rounded or elongated raised studs, guides visually impaired commuters through the station. Dedicated tactile routes connect the station entrances to the platforms.

Artwork
The artwork Water, Nature & Contemporary by Vincent Leow is displayed at this station as part of the Art-in-Transit programme, a showcase of public artworks on the MRT network. The station artwork consists of two image stripes, which are displayed across the open stair voids that link the concourse level to the platform. The 80 vitreous enamel panels were silkscreened with various black-and-white photographs reminiscent of cinematic stills or film strips, depicting people, activities, and natural landscapes in Singapore. The artwork's images were enlarged, resulting in an abstract appearance; when observed from a distance, the images come into clear focus. The images incorporate dots, graphic motifs, and bands to reflect the "vitality of Buangkok New Town".

Leow, typically known for his paintings and sculptures, saw the commission as "an opportunity to experiment" and decided to "push his artistic boundaries" by fusing art and photography for the commission, allowing him to express himself. The photographs, retrieved from the National Archives of Singapore, were selected to reflect the lifestyle of old Buangkok and other rural areas of Singapore and for commuters to connect the past and the future. The images double as a commentary on life in Singapore; for example, the photo of the soldier on parade is intended to remind many Singaporean men of National Service and their "rite of passage into adulthood".

The vibrant embellishments contrasted with the backdrop of black-and-white photographs, as the artist intended to capture the attention of commuters while creating "a bright and happy ambience" through "the explosion of colours". Leow drew parallels to the little dots and pixels of TV and computer images, which blur out certain images while creating a new image. Also incorporated within the artwork are auspicious symbols, including depictions of fishes and red or tangerine clouds interspersed throughout the images. These clouds draw inspiration from traditional Chinese art and street theatre, which were familiar to many Singaporeans.

title: Buangkok MRT station


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Wikipedia talk:Featured article removal candidates/Archive 1

Guidelines
This page is useful and clearly needed, however it currently lacks guidelines. Implicit from the present operation seems to be the suggestion that there needs to be a consensus to remove an article. I do not agree.

Featured articles should have consensus support to be listed, because we want the whole community to stand behind them. It makes no sense to require the reverse course for removing them - that an article where 4 people support removal and 1 person objects remains featured.

I therefore suggest the following guideline at the top of the page:

 * If there remain strenuous objections for featuring a certain article even after a week of discussion, the article should be removed from the list.

That way we assure that only articles which have the largest possible community support are featured.--Eloquence* 17:57, May 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * The chief difficulty appears to me to be that this page gets a lot less attention than the nominations page. It strikes me as hard to speak of "consensus" after a week, when there's only one or two comments on a proposal after a month or so has passed.  Perhaps a boilerplate removal macro needs to be devised.  Smerdis of Tlön 18:51, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, let's do this for the talk pages, and let's increase the time to maybe two weeks.--Eloquence*

Archiving Nominations
I think we really ought to be archiving old nominations, to prevent this page from becoming stale. There's nominations here that resulted in removal several months ago and have not been touched since. Ambivalenthysteria 04:31, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks Raul. The page looks a lot better. Ambivalenthysteria 06:21, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

political correctness
would this count under "Do not list articles that have recently been promoted", as it recently survived an attempt at removal? Sam [Spade] 04:49, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * No, but I'll add a second rule - "Do not list articles that have recently survived removal attempts" →Raul654 04:56, Jun 12, 2004 (UTC)

Merge with Featured article candidates ?
It's been noted above that this page doesn't get a lot of attention. Seeing as its effects are just as significant as those of the addition page, the problem should be remedied.

The removal page instructs people to go ahead and pull the article from Featured articles. Consequently, what happens on the removal candidates page is more like voting to feature it again than voting to remove it. So, why not merge it into featured candidates? That way, the articles are always held to the latest standards for featured articles and the voting gets the attention it deserves. The same rules for removal would apply except that they could be distilled to one, since there would be no more voting off, only voting in and revoting in. Thoughts? Nathan 16:00, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * I might support this. One thing that certainly doesn't help is this page is not linked to from Featured article candidates (unless I missed it). Another thought is that the current removal protocol is open to abuse, in that articles are temporarily defeatured while they are nominated for removal; this seems to be a "guilty until proven innocent" system. — Matt 16:05, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * NO!!!! The FAC is convoluted enough as it is. The rules here aren't even well defined yet (and I say that as the one who wrote them). At least for the time being, I'd prefer this page stay nice and managable (and here!). →Raul654 19:12, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Whoah. Uh, ok. I can see that it might be easier administratively to keep the pages separate. That's partly because the already-removed "removal candidates" aren't getting the attention and discussion that they deserve. At some point this should be reconciled though, right? If the FAC is significantly changed to deal with its present convolutions, eliminating this page is something to consider. Process wise it's simpler: If you think one of the featured articles doesn't belong and it hasn't recently been voted on, remove it yourself and list it as a featured article candidate. Nathan 21:16, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Take one look at some of the antics that... ahem, a certain user prepetuates on the FAC to see why this idea is so very bad (especially while the rules are ill defined). →Raul654 21:20, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)

This page was moved off FAC for a reason - it was making the page far too long. However, I do think this raises a key point. At the moment, FAC and FARC both serve a similar purpose, because this is practically a vote to relist. Since when did we agree to allow users to unilaterally remove an article from Featured Articles, particularly after it had to go through a rigorous process of consensus to get there? To me, this doesn't make much sense, and I can't recall it ever being discussed. Ambivalenthysteria 09:07, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Time limit?
How long are articles supposed to stay here? L. Paul Bremer has been here for two weeks, with no support for removal from anyone except the original nominator. What is the procedure for restoring this to FA status? Right now this page is more of a featured article oubliette. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:00, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

 * I think this needs two things. For one, it's about time we set this up like FAC itself, and stuck to a rolling timeframe. Secondly, to avoid cases like this, I still believe we should need support before removing an article from FA. After requiring such rigorous support to get there, I shouldn't be able to take it down (even temporarily) because I don't like an article, unless I have the support of other editors. Ambivalenthysteria 06:47, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with both proposals made by Ambivalenthysteria. What do you propose as the timeframe for listing an article on this page?  And how many people should be required to support the removal of a featured article before it moves to this page?

 * Acegikmo1 15:07, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me. The rules here were only meant to be a rough draft. Make whatever changes you want with my blessing. →Raul654 17:21, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree. Let's call it two weeks. (goes to edit boldly) - David Gerard 19:17, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've just updated the rules here and on FA. List here, do not remove from FA, two week limit. Should it be longer than two weeks? - David Gerard 00:10, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Nah. Ambivalenthysteria 00:37, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * The wave of archiving I just did stuck to noms over a month old, and has cleared the list nicely. I suggest we leave it at a month in practice for now, unless and until this page becomes remarkably more active - David Gerard 11:27, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Does that mean that we'll have to wait a month to remove a bad article from FAC? Ambivalenthysteria 12:24, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * No, not from FAC, from the Featured Articles list itself - David Gerard 13:45, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I meant FA itself. That seems like an awfully long time, if it is indeed a bad article. Ambivalenthysteria 23:48, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * That's why I haven't changed the actual rules from two weeks ;-) I think we should keep it at a month in general practice for now, though, on the basis of 'if in doubt, do nothing' - David Gerard 13:56, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I thought that the point of removing them from FA was to keep Raul from accidentally putting them in Template:Feature. If that's the new policy though, I'll relist all of the current removal candidates. - DropDeadGorgias (talk) 17:07, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * You didn't add them to Category:Wikipedia Featured Articles! - David Gerard 23:52, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

More than two week old candidates?
The page says: "Once an article has been listed here for two weeks, it will be removed from the featured articles list if the consensus is to remove.".. Is there a specific reason why many candidates older than two weeks with consensus to remove are still listed here? --Conti|✉ 18:22, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

 * Indeed - a comment I have just made on Wikipedia talk:featured article candidates. Presumably we can be bold and un-feature the ones for which there is a consensus (such as war elephant, crushing by elephant and History of the English penny) ? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:34, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I've just done that. --Conti|✉ 17:32, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)

Use contested FA's Talk page first
As a matter of courtesy, you should raise your concerns first on the FA's Talk page stating exactly what is wrong and what needs to be corrected before removal. Add applicable links to guidelines as needed or links to where they can get help if needed especially if newbies are involved in recent edits or changes. If the concerns are corrected, then there would be no need for people here to be involved. If corrections have not been made or there have no attempts to try after two weeks (or whatever?), then list them here as candidates for removal. Would it also be appropriate to list the page on Pages needing attention? add new category - FA nominated for removal? Petersam 01:04, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't see a problem with listing them here directly. Wikipedians should state why an article should be removed anyways, and if the concerns are corrected, people will vote to keep the article. The main problem I see here is that this page does not get enough attention to start real discussions about keeping/not keeping featured articles, we should try to change this. --Conti|✉ 17:36, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be a template (not to be confused with FARC) to be added to the talk page, if there is not one already? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:45, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Good idea! I added Template:Farc to the removal candidates. Maybe it needs a better wording, my english isn't perfect, but it's a start. --Conti|✉ 12:43, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

 * I also added the reasons to Template:Farc for FARC as well as adding a statement for the page's advocates or anyone else to help get it back to FA quality Petersam 17:17, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Designation of removed articles
I may be missing something, but there doesn't seem to be anything that tells whether an article was actually removed. Featured article removal candidates/archive doesn't mention whether the article was removed or not. It appears the only way to tell is to look through either every single nominated article or through the history of Featured articles, but sometimes the comments there are not very clear. Can whoever removes the article put a note in the archive after the discussion as to whether it was actually removed or not? - Taxman 12:39, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

 * I added the decisions in the edit summaries of this or the archive page when I moved the removal candidates to the archive. But you're right, that's not very easy to find out. I'll add the decisions whether the article was kept or removed from FA to the /archive section soon. Thanks for pointing that out! --Conti|✉ 17:42, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

 * I've added the decisions whether an article was kept or removed as a FA now to the /archive. --Conti|✉ 22:14, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. - Taxman 02:14, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

Criteria
I think we need to state clearly at the top of the page that retrospective application of new FA requirements is not sufficient reason for listing articles for removal. Filiocht 14:57, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Well I disagree with that statement, so I do not agree it should be placed at the top of the page. All FA's should meet the same basic standards.  First a message should be left on the talk page requesting the needed changes, then if they are not addressed it should be listed here and left to a vote.  If they do not meet the criteria, they should be either fixed or removed.  What good does it do to have articles that do not meet the criteria still be called featured? Once an article is called featured should it retain that forever then? - Taxman 15:42, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Specifically the references requirement is critical to having Wikipedia be a truly respectable resource. Without references the article could be complete BS.  Eventually or now, that requirement will have to be retrofitted to all featured articles.  I have left messages on a number of FA's without references and some have added good references since.  Those that have not are fair game for listing in my eyes. - Taxman 15:42, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, we must tread carefully here - there's merit to both positions. We have some 400+ featured articles. In a perfect world, all of them would meet all the featured article requirements. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world. I don't think we should be removing 90%+ of them because they were written before the requirement was added. On the other hand, there are some older featured articles (especially holdovers from the brilliant prose days) that meet very few of the criteria, and rightfully should be removed. →Raul654 19:03, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * I'd say that this argument might apply to deletion of articles, but to defeaturing, I'm not sure. We could, theoretically, throw out all the featured articles and just start featuring new ones any way we like, and it wouldn't do all that much damage. However, the advantage of having the removal process is that it drives original contributors to upgrade their articles and improve their quality even further, for fear of losing that special bit of status. Deco 23:53, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Especially references. References are so critical to the credibility and long term value of Wikipedia.  It is hard to underestimate the value they have.  How can we say that the best articles we have don't even have valid references?  They could be completely made up if they are not fact checked with the best references in their field.  Spend some time reading Slashdot and others and see among the detractors of Wikipedia that is the only valid complaint they have left.  They can't say building an encyclopedia from random contributors won't work because it is.  But they can take issue with the poorly researched and cited articles that Wikipedia as a whole has.  At least with the featured articles we can take a stand and make it a hard and fast requirement.  It's not that hard. It's a trip to one or two libraries and finding the most respected books or papers in the field and citing them and using them to fact check. On the whole most featured articles do have at least some references.  I'm almost sure it is less than 30% that do not.  By placing requests on talk pages the majority of requests for references to be added have been fulfilled. I propose creating a list of featured articles that do not have references and placing messages on talk pages requesting them, then giving a full month before nominating them here. I will do that this weekend if no one beats me to it. - Taxman 16:19, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

 * See here, where at very least there is implied agreement that the references requirement would not be retrospective. I agree that references are a good thing (see my voting record on FAC). However, I cannot agree that lack of refs is sufficient reason for listing on FARC. It would be better to approach the main authors and ask that they add references. Filiocht 16:55, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * From what I see so far, that's basically one person, →Raul654 saying that typically new requirements are not retroactive. What I am saying is that references are important enough to make retroactive.  We could take it to a specific poll if you think that would help.  But of course even our respected Raul654 speaking alone is not a consensus made. The cost of making it retroactive as a requirement is certainly well less than the benefit of having all featured articles have solid references.  Especially if done as I have proposed above. - Taxman 17:11, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

 * It would be good to see a list of the featured articles that are thought to have inadequate references so we can see how big a problem it is. Unless only a small number (say less than 10%) of featured articles are affected, I don't agree with retrofitting the references requirement: however, it is definitely a good idea to ask people to add references where they can. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:19, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It appears it is a much bigger problem than I thought. I have started the list at User:Taxman/Featured articles with references problems. 63 out of 145 that I have gone through so far have problems. When I am finished with that list I will work on a template message that can be pasted into the talk page as a notification.  - Taxman 19:52, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * I should perhaps clarify my position - I agree that references are very important because (as you said) they increase our credibility (which is the only long term arguement against the project). And I agree that ideally, all our articles should have them. But I am taking the long view. The references requirement was added not too long ago (<2 months), at which time, we had over 300 featured articles. That's a lot of articles to demand references for. So I think we should drop them a note on the talk pages, but that we shouldn't be de-featuring them anytime in the near future. →Raul654 17:54, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree that every featured article should have a "transition period" in which to bring the article up to new standards. If we defeature too soon we remove the incentive to improve. The time is arguable — perhaps a month? Deco 19:22, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Good point, →Raul654. But as Deco notes, what timeframe is reasonable? These are supposed to be our best after all. I don't think one month is overly burdensome, but I'm open to two I suppose. - Taxman 19:52, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

 * Many of the worst offenders (by which I mean not just inadequate/no references, but also no sections or incomplete) were "featured" on 15 March 2004 - was this when "brilliant prose" became "featured articles"? Examples: Dreyfus affair, Montparnasse, White Rose.  Villain is also pretty poor, about half of it being quotes.  These ones probably ought to be nominated as removal candidates anyway. -- ALoan (Talk) 20:06, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

All Feature Articles should be judged on the same standards. You don't want cars left on the road that aren't roadworthy, just because they met obsolete roadworthy criteria two years ago. Now Feature Articles don't kill anyone, but they do give a false impression of just how good we want Feature Articels to be (something they gave me). Feature Articles should keep up-to-speed or be ditched IMO. A month or so grace seems a good idea to please the masses.--ZayZayEM 00:40, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Good to see some discussion on this issue, I agree with the above sentiment that the references section is essential to a featured quality article and should thus be included in any article passing WP:FAC. Then there is the issue with retroactively applying standards, image an external independent viewer looking at a Wikipedia featured article right now, not knowing or caring that the article has been a long time featured article, he will merely see a very interesting article lacking any source attribution, how does that make WP look? Taxman's idea of creating an attention-seeking template especially for this issue is a good one, we should add it to all the articles lacking references and give it a clear deadline, which should be long enough to encourage people to improve the article but not put too great a strain on editors who suddenly find a great deal of their favourite articles on the verge of losing their FA status. If in the end this leads to a great deal of articles losing their featured status? So be it, this is not a problem, is just shows we actually take the FA tag seriously and will do whatever it takes to maintain current and high standards, actually keeping them featured degrades the FA tag for article that DO have the proper references. -- [[User:Solitude|Solitude\talk]] 19:42, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Would it be good to start up a poll and get a wider audience for this issue? I think it's important to know where we stand, do we apply the same criteria to ALL our featured articles and nominees so they are all up to the same standards, or do waive criteria for already featured articles. And if so, which ones do we waive, what does an article need to have at minimum to stay featured, etc. -- [[User:Solitude|Solitude\talk]] 19:14, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * I do think the standard should be uniform. I wonder, however, if our FA standards are not a little too high, at the moment. Maybe there should be another "Excellent article" category, where only articles meeting the very highest standards belong, taking some weight off the FA label. (this would not necessarily complicate the nomination process. On FAC, you could just vote for either "featured" or "excellent". But on-topic, yes, we do need more specific guidelines on what we mean by FA. dab 19:21, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No no no no no no no no... (a) Adding an extra category of good articles is a textbook case of feature creep (b) A poll is unncessary - don't vote on everything. We all agree in principle that at some point in the future, all featured articles should be required to meet all featured article criteria; we disagree on the time scale, but that is a difference of degree. (c) No, the featured article standard is not too high - we're promoting more now than we ever have before. My biggest complaint is that the FAC has gotten progressively larger. →Raul654 20:03, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree that we do not need an extra category, that will only make matters more complex. But on the criteria issue, you talk about a timeframe as in some point in the future, why delay the inevitable, keeping articles that are below standards featured does: a) not motivate their editors to improve the article to featured standard. b) reflect badly on articles in the same category that do meet the proper standards. I do not see how waiting is going to help in this case. -- [[User:Solitude|Solitude\talk]] 07:51, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * No, an additional category of pages would not be a good idea. I think we just need to decide if and when we should get on with it - retrofitting references to between a third and a half of featured articles is clearly a major task.

 * I've just had a look at Taxman's very useful list of featured articles with references problems - about half of the featured articles have been reviewed, and there is a list of featured articles still to check.

 * Once all of the articles have been reviewed (I think it is useful to have one person to go through the list, to give a consistent approach, although Taxman seems to be stalled since a couple of weeks ago), we should add a special template to the articles' talk pages stating that if adequate references are not added within, say, 4 weeks, they will be added to WP:FARC. (Some of them are so poor that they should be listed on WP:FARC in any event.) Comments? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:25, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes sorry, it is finished now. Thanks for the prodding. I support a 6-8 week limit myself.  Then I think references are so important that it is worth listing and removing FA's that don't have references.  There is consensus agreement that FA's need to be well referenced, so I believe we should put a note on the talk page, give some time to improve and then start listing them for removal.  It's no big deal, they can then just get improved and renominated at FAC.  I think some people are acting as if we are proposing deleting the articles, not just removing the FA stamp and asking that they get fixed a bit. - Taxman 13:18, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Separately we need to work to a consensus not only on what message will get posted to FA's without references, but also there is currently no consensus on what the references section is called. That discussion should happen on either WikiProject Fact and Reference Check or Forum for Encyclopedic Standards - Taxman 13:18, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Re template, something like Template:farc, like this:

 * This article lacks the references required of a featured article. If adequate references are not added within 4 weeks to bring this article up to featured article standard, it will be nominated as a Featured article removal candidate.

 * Comments? -- ALoan (Talk) 18:50, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Four weeks? To improve 191 articles? You're joking, right? (Also, that number does not count the 'other issues' section, with which I have a seperate bone to pick) →Raul654 19:18, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * If you have issues with what I have there, let me know on the talk page. That list is just one guy's opinion in an effort to improve something that I think is very important. Some of those in the 'other issues' list will be very easy to fix. And personally I do think 8 weeks is more than enough for authors of each page to go out and get good references or to add and properly format those they have already used. Again, it's not like nominating them at FARC is deleting them, it is just removing the FA stamp until they are improved and renominated. And yes I am willing to do the work to deal with the onslaught of nominations at FARC if that happens. - Taxman 21:19, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think the notice definitely needs to mention that you can't just add any old book and call it a reference. It needs to actually be used to verify material in or add material to the article.  A systematically added template will have to be especially vigilant about that point because it is a large scale. - Taxman 21:19, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Hmm. 191 out of 455.  That is a problem.  Perhaps putting them all through FARC is not realistic, but it can't hurt to post a message on the talk pages asking the authors to disclose/find some references for what they have written.  It is not as if one person is being asked to fix all of the articles: there are lots of authors.  And it is not really a question of 'improving' the articles, per se: adding proper references is a much more limited exercise.  We also don't have to do all of them at once either: they could be broken down into sections and done in chunks (although, of course, this will take longer).  The first step, really, is to nominate on FARC all of the articles that are clearly not up to scratch for other reasons.  -- ALoan (Talk) 20:01, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Also, many of the articles, the external links were used to add or check the material in the article, so that simply needs to be verified and then the link needs to be properly formatted. It may not be as easy as you think Aloan, to put proper references in.  Just tossing a book on there is not good enough. As noted above it needs to be actually used to verify the material for it to be valuable as a reference. - Taxman 21:19, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think there are two issues here. First, shutting the gate, so that featured article candidates are appropriately referenced. I think Taxman's poll covers that.
 * Second, cleaning up the old articles. I think that is an issue and will take time. I suggest we need to create a well publicised list(Taxman as created the list here) and add a template to the pages; saying that the article does not meet the new criteria; and this is the deadline(give actual date). The deadline should be about two months, because it is a lot of articles. The page should be advertised on the community portal, the WikiProject Fact and Reference Check and Forum for Encyclopedic Standards to get more interested parties involved. Lets make something of a quality offensive.
 * Of course, in the meantime there is nothing to stop making an article a featured article removal candidate for other reasons. :ChrisG 16:28, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Evert Dudok

Evert Dudok (born February 23, 1959, in Venlo, Netherlands) has been the President of EADS Astrium Satellites since June 2007. Prior to this date he was president of EADS Astrium Space Transportation since June 2005. Before that he was Head of Earth Observation & Science division at EADS Astrium since March 2002.

Dudok obtained a degree in Electrical Engineering Summa Cum Laude from the Technical University of Eindhoven in 1984. He started his career with DASA in Ottobrunn in 1984, where he worked many years for "Payload Antennas" activities. Since the beginning of Astrium, he was Head of the Business Unit “Navigation and constellations” in the Business Division “Telecommunication & Navigation”.

Dudok became Executive Vice President of Connected Intelligence at the creation of Airbus Defence and Space in 2014 and also became a member of the Airbus Defence and Space Executive Committee.

title: Evert Dudok


text:
Talk:Shades of Gray

Creating this page
I created this page (removed the redirect) because "Shades of Gray" means a lot more than the name of a TV episode. Apparently the children's book is quite famous, but I wouldn't know so I'm not about to write an article about it. --feitclub 06:32, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Redirect
I changed this page to redirect to a more complete disambiguation page. --Ww.ellis 18:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shades of Gray


text:
Talk:Ellery Schempp

"Controversial physicist"?
The article claims that Ellery is a "controversial physicist". Is there any controversy over his academic work, or is this merely a reference to his role in the 1963 case? If the latter, I think it should be reworded, as I definitely got the wrong impression and imagine others would too. -Chinju 19:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

10 Bible passages?
The section on "Activism" begins with a reference to "the school requirement that each student read 10 Bible passages and the Lord's Prayer each day during homeroom." I was a public school student in Pennsylvania at this time, and I believe the rule was that a minimum of 10 Bible verses had to be read (plus the Lord's Prayer). However, I don't have a citation to offer, so I'm just leaving this note in case anyone else can look up the information in the right place. --best regards DSatz (talk) 23:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

 * The statute, as quoted in the ruling, called for "ten verses".Novangelis (talk) 04:49, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Note
just an FYI that I'm going to add a bit for this profile. it may take me a bit, but I'll get it done! Cap020570 (talk) 00:36, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Job history
Can anyone provide the link to where they got the Schempp work history. It's not provided in any current links. It may have to be removed if it cannot be sourced. Cap020570 (talk) 16:19, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

It's been a year and I've had yet to hear from anyone for a source for his employment. --Cap020570 (talk) 02:26, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Request for Comments
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:15, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Ellery Schempp


text: User talk:207.225.232.131

title: User talk:207.225.232.131


text:
David Plante

David Robert Plante (born March 4, 1940, in Providence, Rhode Island) is an American novelist, diarist, and memoirist of both French-Canadian and North American Indian descent.

Life
The son of Albina Bisson and Aniclet Plante, Plante is of both French-Canadian and North American Indian descent. He graduated from Boston College and the Université catholique de Louvain. He taught creative writing at Columbia University before retiring. His diary is kept in the Berg Collection of the New York Public Library. His papers are kept in the library of The University of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Plante lives in London, Lucca, Italy, and Athens, Greece. He has American and British dual citizenship.

Work
Plante's novels examine the spiritual in a variety of contexts, but notably in the milieu of large, working-class, Catholic families of French-Canadian background. His male characters range from openly gay to sexually ambiguous and questioning.

Plante’s work, for which he has been nominated for the National Book Award, includes Difficult Women (1983), a memoir of his relationships with Jean Rhys, Sonia Orwell, and Germaine Greer and the widely praised Francoeur Trilogy--The Family (1978), The Country (1980) and The Woods (1982). His most recent book The Pure Lover (2009) is a memoir of Nikos Stangos, his partner of forty years. The papers of Nikos Stangos (1936-2004), are in The Princeton University Library, the Program in Hellenic Studies.

He has been published extensively including in The New Yorker and The Paris Review and various literary magazines.

Honours
Plante is a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature. Among his other honours are: Henfield Fellow, University of East Anglia, 1975; British Arts Council Grant, 1977; Guggenheim Fellowship, 1983; American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters Award, 1983.

He is an Ambassador for the LGBT Committee of the New York Public Library.

He has been a writer-in-residence at Maxim Gorky Literature Institute (Moscow), the Université du Québec à Montréal, Adelphi University, King's College, the University of Cambridge, the University of Tulsa, and the University of East Anglia.

David Plante's book, The Family was a final selection for the National Book Award in 1979.

title: David Plante


text:
User talk:RajivSky

CHEER UP FRIENDS!
Think what a remarkable, unduplicatable, and miraculous thing it is to be you! Of all the people who have come and gone on the earth, since the beginning of time, not ONE of them is like YOU!

No one who has ever lived or is to come has had your combination of abilities, talents, friends, acquaintances, burdens, sorrows and opportunities.

No one's hair grows exactly the way yours does. No one's finger prints are like yours. No one has the same combination of secret inside jokes and family expressions that you know.

The few people who laugh at all the same things you do, don't sneeze the way you do. No one prays about exactly the same concerns as you do. No one is loved by the same combination of people that love you - NO ONE!

No one before, no one to come. '''YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE! ''' Enjoy that uniqueness. You do not have to pretend in order to seem more like someone else. You weren't meant to be like someone else. You do not have to lie to conceal the parts of you that are not like what you see in anyone else.

You were meant to be different. Nowhere ever in all of history will the same things be going on in anyone's mind, soul and spirit as are going on in yours right now.

If you did not exist, there would be a hole in creation, a gap in history, something missing from the plan for humankind.Treasure your uniqueness. It is a gift given only to you. Enjoy it and share it!

No one can reach out to others in the same way that you can. No one can speak your words. No one can convey your meanings. No one can comfort with your kind of comfort. No one can bring your kind of understanding to another person.

No one can be cheerful and lighthearted and joyous in your way. No one can smile your smile. No one else can bring the whole unique impact of you to another human being.

Share your uniqueness. Let it be free to flow out among your family and friends and people you meet in the rush and clutter of living wherever you are. That gift of yourself was given you to enjoy and share. Give yourself away!

See it! Receive it! Let it tickle you! Let it inform you and nudge you and inspire you!

YOU ARE UNIQUE!

title: User talk:RajivSky


text:
Talk:David Plante

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Salman of Saudi Arabia

Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (سلمان بن عبدالعزیز آل سعود; born 31 December 1935) is King of Saudi Arabia, reigning since 2015, and was also Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia from 2015 to 2022. The 25th son of King Abdulaziz, the founder of Saudi Arabia, he assumed the throne on 23 January 2015. Prior to his accession, he was Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia from 18 June 2012 to 23 January 2015. Salman is the third oldest living head of state, the oldest living monarch, and Saudi Arabia's first head of state born after the unification of Saudi Arabia. He has a reported personal wealth of at least $18 billion, which makes him the third wealthiest royal in the world and one of the wealthiest individuals in the world.

Salman is a son of King Abdulaziz and Hassa bint Ahmed Al Sudairi, making him one of the Sudairi Seven. He was the deputy governor of Riyadh and later the governor of Riyadh for 48 years from 1963 to 2011. He was then appointed minister of defense. He was named crown prince in 2012. Salman became king in 2015 upon the death of his half-brother, King Abdullah. Since January 2024, he is the oldest surviving son of King Abdulaziz.

Salman's major initiatives as king include the Saudi intervention in the Yemeni Civil War, Saudi Vision 2030, and a 2017 decree allowing Saudi women to drive. His seventh son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, is considered the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia due to the King's poor health and Mohammed's own political maneuvering. Mohammed replaced his father as prime minister in 2022.

Early life
Salman was born on 31 December 1935, and is reported to be the 25th son of King Abdulaziz, the first monarch and founder of Saudi Arabia. Salman and his six full brothers make up the Sudairi Seven. He was raised in the Murabba Palace.

Salman received his early education at the Princes' School in the capital city of Riyadh, a school established by King Abdulaziz specifically to provide education for his children. He studied religion and modern science.

Riyadh
Salman was appointed Deputy Governor of Riyadh Province on 17 March 1954, aged 19, and held the post until 19 April 1955. He was appointed the governor of the same provincial on 5 February 1963, and remained in that office until 5 November 2011, a period of almost half a century.

As governor, he contributed to the development of Riyadh from a mid-sized town into a major urban metropolis. He served as an important liaison to attract tourism, capital projects, and foreign investment to his country. He favored political and economic relationships with the West. During his governorship, Salman recruited advisors from King Saud University.

During Salman's five decades as Riyadh governor, he became adept at managing the delicate balance of clerical, tribal, and princely interests that determine Saudi policy. He was also the chairman of the King Abdulaziz Foundation for Research and Archives (KAFRA), King Abdulaziz Museum, the Prince Salman Center for Disability Research and the Prince Fahd bin Salman Charitable Society for the Care of Kidney Patients.

King Salman also undertook several foreign tours while he was governor. In 1974, he visited Kuwait, Bahrain and Qatar to strengthen Saudi Arabia's relationship with those nations. During his visit to Montreal, Canada in 1991, he inaugurated a gallery. In 1996, he was received in the Élysée Palace in Paris by the then-French president Jacques Chirac. The same year he toured Bosnia and Herzegovina to give donations to the Muslim citizens of the country. Being a part of an Asian tour in 1998, Salman visited Pakistan, Japan, Brunei and China.

According to The Washington Post, the late Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi "criticized Prince Salman, then governor of Riyadh and head of the Saudi committee for support to the Afghan mujahideen, for unwisely funding Salafist extremist groups that were undermining the war [in Afghanistan against the Soviets]."

Under Salman, Riyadh became one of the richest cities in the Middle East and an important place for trade and commerce. There were also infrastructural advances including schools, universities, and sports stadiums. About the province, he said:

"Every village or town in the Riyadh Region is dear to me, and holds a special place in my heart ... I witnessed every step taken by the city of Riyadh, and for this reason, it is difficult for me to think about being far away from Riyadh."

Second in line
On 5 November 2011, Salman was appointed Minister of Defense, replacing his full brother, the Crown Prince Sultan. Sattam bin Abdulaziz was named governor of Riyadh Province. Salman was also named a member of the National Security Council (NSC) on the same day.

It is speculated that he was placed in the immediate line of succession due to his personal qualities. First, he has a conciliatory and diplomatic nature. He headed the family council, called The Descendants' Council (Majlis al Uthra in Arabic), that was established by King Fahd in 2000 to solve family matters, reach consensus and try to avoid any publicly embarrassing behaviour by some family members. Second, Salman belongs to the "middle generation" in the royal family; therefore, he could develop close ties with both generations socially and culturally. Last, as a result of his long-term governorship, he had developed a network of relationships within Arab and international circles.

Salman continued the policy of military intervention in Bahrain. In April 2012, Salman visited both the United States and the United Kingdom where he met with US President Barack Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron. 2013 saw Saudi military spending climb to $67bn, overtaking that of the UK, France and Japan to place fourth globally. As defense minister, Salman was head of the military as Saudi Arabia joined the United States and other Arab countries in carrying out airstrikes against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria in 2014.

Crown Prince
On 18 June 2012, Salman was appointed as Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia shortly after the death of his brother, Crown Prince Nayef bin Abdulaziz. Prince Salman was also made First Deputy Prime minister. His nomination as crown prince and deputy prime minister was seen by some as a signal that King Abdullah's cautious reforms were likely to continue. On the other hand, Saudi reformists stated that while Prince Salman, in contrast to other Saudi royals, took a more diplomatic approach towards them, he could not be considered a political reformer. They also argued that, like King Abdullah, Salman focused mainly on economic improvement rather than political change.

On 27 August 2012, the Royal Court announced that Salman was in charge of state affairs whilst King Abdullah was out of the country. Prince Salman launched a Twitter account on 23 February 2013. In September 2012, Salman was named as the deputy chairman of the military service council. He is a strong advocate for philanthropy in poor Muslim nations such as Somalia, Sudan, and Afghanistan.

King of Saudi Arabia

On 23 January 2015, Salman, aged 79, inherited the throne after his half-brother Abdullah died of pneumonia at the age of 90. The new king issued a statement which read "His Highness Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud and all members of the family and the nation mourn Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, who passed away at exactly 1 am this morning." He appointed his younger half-brother, Muqrin bin Abdulaziz, as Crown Prince.

After coming to power, Salman reshuffled the cabinet on 30 January 2015. Khalid bin Ali bin Abdullah al-Humaidan was made the intelligence chief. Prince Bandar bin Sultan was removed from his post in the security council and the adviser to the monarch was also removed as were the former monarch's sons Turki as governor of Riyadh and Mishaal as governor of Mecca. Ali al-Naimi remained the minister of petroleum and mineral resources, as did Saud al-Faisal of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ibrahim Al-Assaf as finance minister. Salman also "gave a bonus of two months' salary to all Saudi state employees and military personnel", including pensioners and students, while also asking citizens to "not forget me in your prayers".

In February 2015, Prince Salman received Charles, Prince of Wales, during his six-day tour in the Middle East. They "exchanged cordial talks and reviewed bilateral relations" between the countries.

In April 2021, Prince Mishaal bin Majid Al Saud, who has been the governor of Jeddah since 1997, was appointed as adviser to King Salman with the rank of minister.

Early reforms
One of the first things the King and his son, Mohammed bin Salman, did was to streamline the government bureaucracy. On the death of King Abdullah, there were as many as eleven government secretariats, and all of these were abolished and reconstituted as only two, the Council of Political and Security Affairs (CPSA), headed by Deputy Crown prince Mohammed bin Nayef, and the Council for Economic and Development Affairs (CEDA), headed by the Secretary-General of the Royal Court, Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who was given free rein to completely reorganize the government and cementing the power of the Sudairi faction, to which both princes belong.

Yemen military intervention
In March 2015, the king ordered the bombing of Yemen and military intervention against the Shia Houthis and forces loyal to former President Ali Abdullah Saleh, who was deposed in the 2011 uprising. He first put together a coalition of ten Sunni Muslim countries. Code-named Operation Decisive Storm, this was the first time the Saudi Air Force had launched airstrikes against another country since the 1990–91 Gulf War.

According to Farea Al-Muslim, direct war crimes have been committed during the conflict; for example, an IDP camp was hit by a Saudi airstrike. Human Rights Watch (HRW) wrote that the Saudi-led air campaign had conducted airstrikes in apparent violation of the laws of war. Human rights groups have also criticized Saudi Arabia for the alleged use of cluster bombs against Yemeni civilians. In 2022, Saudi airstrikes at a prison in Northern Yemen killed at least 70 people and knocked out the country's internet access. The UN estimated that by the end of the year 2021, the death toll of the war on Yemen had reached 377,000 people and could reach 1.3 million people by 2030.

Crown Prince changes
In April 2015, three months after becoming king, Salman appointed a full nephew, Muhammad bin Nayef, as the new Crown Prince to replace his youngest brother Prince Muqrin. Furthermore, he made his son, Mohammed bin Salman, the Deputy Crown Prince. Almost all powers under the king were concentrated in the hands of the crown prince and deputy crown prince, both of whom held the portfolio determining all security and economic development issues in Saudi Arabia.

King Salman then removed Muhammad bin Nayef from the line of succession to the Saudi throne on 21 June 2017 and designated his son Mohammed bin Salman as the new crown prince. At the same time, King Salman removed Muhammad bin Nayef from his other positions in the Saudi government. Mohammad bin Salman has been described as the power behind the throne.

KSRelief
In May 2015, the King Salman Center for Relief and Humanitarian Aid (KSRelief) was established to deliver aid internationally to victims of civil war and natural disaster, working with the UN and other agencies. As of June 2018, KSRelief has implemented more than 400 individual projects in 40 countries at a cost of $1.8 billion. Moreover, in 2018, KSRelief assisted 180,555 Syrian patients living in Zataari Syrian refugees camp in Jordan. In 2019, KSRelief signed a memorandum of cooperation with UNICEF that aims at enhancing cooperation in the humanitarian field, exchanging knowledge, sharing experiences, promoting voluntary work and boosting capacity building programs. Until 2019, the center provided 1,839 Yemeni civilians wounded during the war with prosthetic limbs for a total amount of $2.3 million.

In its ongoing efforts to support the people of Yemen, KSRelief organized a vocational training program to train women in Yemen to enable them to earn money for themselves and their families. In a similar context, under the umbrella of the UN, KSRelief has led an international team to implement a rehabilitation project for the children affected by war in Yemen. Moreover, as part of the 40th session of the UN Human Rights Council, KSRelief organized an event entitled: Children and the Humanitarian Crisis in Yemen where it presented a number of facts and figures related to the amount of assistance provided by the center to the people of Yemen. This includes the implementation of 328 projects for an amount of $2 billion. Furthermore, in 2018 alone, KSRelief provided medical services to 2,501,897 Yemenis.

In 2019, KSRelief signed a number of agreements with different civil society organizations to implement relief projects for the benefit of Palestinian and Syrian refugees as well as the host Lebanese community. KSRelief signed an agreement with the UNHCR to support the families affected by war for an amount of $5 million. Another agreement with IOM was signed to help Syrian refugees under the poverty line for an amount of $3.8 million.

Human rights
In February 2012, Ali Mohammed Baqir al-Nimr was arrested for participating in, and encouraging, pro-democracy protests, when he was 16 or 17 years old. In May 2014, Ali Al-Nimr was sentenced to be executed, despite the minimum age for execution being 18 when a crime is committed. Ali Al-Nimr has reported that he was tortured during his detention. As of 23 September 2015, the sentence awaited ratification by King Salman.

In February 2015, a man from Hafar al-Batin was sentenced to death for rejecting the religion of Islam. In June 2015, Saudi Arabia's Supreme Court upheld the sentence of 1,000 lashes and 10 years in prison for Raif Badawi, a Saudi Arabian blogger who was imprisoned in 2012 after being charged for 'insulting Islam'.

In April 2020, the Saudi Supreme Court stated under a royal decree made by King Salman that minors who commit crimes will no longer face execution, but would be sentenced to imprisonment in a juvenile detention facility for a maximum of 10 years.

Iran and Syria
US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter met with King Salman and his Arabian military counterpart, Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, at Jeddah to answer regional security concerns in the Kingdom and the Gulf states over lifting Iranian economic and conventional military sanctions as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action outlines. The King has misgivings over the deal since it would increase the regional power of Iran especially in the proxy conflicts in Syria, Yemen, and elsewhere. In January 2016, Saudi Arabia executed the prominent Saudi Shia cleric Sheikh Nimr. Iran warned that the House of Saud would pay a high price for the execution of Sheikh Nimr by God's will.

Saudi Arabia has emerged as the main group to finance and arm the rebels fighting against the Syrian government. Saudi Arabia openly backed the Army of Conquest, an umbrella rebel group that reportedly included an al-Qaeda linked al-Nusra Front and another Salafi coalition known as Ahrar al-Sham.

In May 2019, leaders of Gulf and Arab states held two emergency summits in Mecca to present a united front to Iran. Salman accused Iran of threatening global oil supplies and shipping at a meeting of Arab leaders that called on the international community to confront Tehran following attacks on shipping and rising tensions in the oil-rich region. Salman said "what the Iranian regime is doing, from intervening in regional countries' affairs and developing its nuclear program, threatening global maritime traffic and global oil supplies, is a blatant violation of the treaties and principles of the United Nations." He urged the international community should "use all means to deter this regime."

Normalization of ties with Israel
In the late 2010s and early 2020s under King Salman, Saudia Arabia engaged in attempts to normalize relations with Israel. Saudi Arabia engaged in such efforts in order to forge a defensive alliance against Iranian threats against Saudia Arabia, either directly or indirectly through Iranian proxies such as the Houthis in Yemen.

Panama Papers revelations
King Salman has been implicated in the Panama Papers leaks, with two companies originating in the British Virgin Islands taking mortgages in excess of US$34 million to purchase property in central London. His role has not been specified. The then-Crown Prince Muhammad bin Nayef has also been named in association with the Papers.

Later reforms
Further government reforms took place in June 2018, when Salman replaced the labor and Islamic affairs ministers. The appointment of businessman Ahmed al-Rajhi as labor minister signalled a growing role for private sector expertise in the Saudi government. The new minister for Islamic affairs, Abdullatif al-Alsheikh, had previously been credited with reining in the power of the religious police. At the same time Salman ordered the establishment of the Ministry of Culture, with responsibility for delivering Saudi Vision 2030's cultural goals; and the Council of Royal Reserves, tasked with environmental protection.

In September 2022, the King resigned from the post of prime minister, handing this role to his son Mohammed.

Influence
Salman was often a mediator in settling royal conflicts among the extended Al Saud family – estimated at 4,000 princes. He was a prominent figure of the royal council, which allowed him to select which princes would be delegated which responsibilities of the Kingdom.

Salman and his family own a media group, including pan-Arab daily Asharq Al-Awsat and Al Eqtisadiah. Though he owns only ten percent of the Saudi Research and Marketing Group (SRMG), he is often referred by auditors as its owner. He reportedly controlled the organization through his son Prince Faisal, who is a former chairman of the concern. The SRMG publishes such daily papers as Arab News, Asharq Al-Awsat and Al Eqtisadiah through its subsidiary Saudi Research and Publishing Company (SRPC).

In a similar vein, Salman is reported to have some strong alliances with significant journalists. He is said to be close to Al Arabiya TV director and Asharq Al-Awsat journalist Abdelrahman Al Rashid and to Othman Al Omeir, who launched and is the owner of the liberal e-newspaper Elaph. King Salman is thought to have connections with the Elaph website.

Views
Salman holds traditional views with regard to political reforms and social change. In November 2002, in reference to charitable organizations accused of terrorism (e.g. al-Haramain Foundation, Saudi High Commission for Relief of Bosnia and Herzegovina), he stated that he had personally taken part in the activities of such organizations, but added "I know the assistance goes to doing good. But if there are those who change some work of charity into evil activities, then it is not the Kingdom's responsibility, nor its people, which helps its Arab and Muslim brothers around the world."

In 2023, in a major departure from Wahhabism, King Salman ordered the establishment of an authority in Medina to scrutinise uses of the hadith that are used by religious preachers and jurists to support teachings and edicts on all aspects of life.

Marriages and issue
Salman bin Abdulaziz has been married three times and has fathered at least thirteen children, including twelve sons.

Salman's first wife was his first cousin Sultana bint Turki Al Sudairi, daughter of his maternal uncle Turki bin Ahmad Al Sudairi, a former governor of Asir Province. They were married in 1954, when Salman was 18 years old and Sultana was 13 or 14. She bore him six children, including his only known daughter. Two adult sons died during the couple's lifetimes. Sultana died on 30 July 2011. Their children were:

 * Prince Fahd (1955–2001). Salman was only 19 years old when he became a father with the birth of Fahd in 1955. Fahd married a cousin and was the father of four children. A businessman and horse-breeder, he died of heart failure aged 47 in July 2001. After his death, his mother extended generous patronage in his memory to an existing, struggling charity, which then renamed itself The Prince Fahd bin Salman Charitable Society for the Care of Kidney Patients. Fahd's brother Abdulaziz has taken over patronage of that charity after the death of their mother.
 * Prince Sultan (born 1956). He became the first person of royal blood, the first Arab, and first Muslim to fly to outer space when he flew aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery (STS-51-G) in June 1985. Sultan bin Salman is currently the chairman of the Saudi Space Commission. Prince Sultan bin Salman was formerly the chairman of the Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities (SCTA), which later was changed to be the Ministry of Tourism.
 * Prince Ahmed (1958–2002), died of a heart attack in July 2002 aged 43.
 * Prince Abdulaziz (b. 1960). He has been the deputy minister of oil since 1995, then the minister of Energy since 2019.
 * Prince Faisal (b. 1970). He is the governor of Madinah province.
 * Princess Hassa (b. 1974), Salman's only known daughter. On 28 May 2021, she was married to a cousin, Fahd bin Saad Al Saud, at the Royal Sea Place in Jeddah.

Salman's second wife was Sarah bint Faisal Al Subai'ai, whom he divorced. The relatively brief marriage produced one son:
 * Prince Saud (b. 1986).

Salman's third wife is Fahda bint Falah Al Hithlain, granddaughter of Rakan bin Hithlain and great-granddaughter of Dhaydan bin Hithlain, leaders of the Al Ajman tribe. She has six sons with Salman:
 * Prince Mohammed (b. 1985), Crown Prince and Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia. He was Salman's private adviser at the Ministry of Defense and at the Crown Prince Court. Upon Salman's accession to the throne in January 2015, he was appointed minister of defense and head of the royal court. Later he was named crown prince.
 * Prince Turki (b. 1987). He became the chairman of the Saudi Research and Marketing Group in February 2013, replacing his elder half-brother Faisal.
 * Prince Khalid (b. 1988)
 * Prince Nayef
 * Prince Bandar
 * Prince Rakan

Personality
Salman was the closest brother to Crown Prince Sultan, having remained at his side during his constant illness and recovery in New York City and Morocco, from 2008 to 2011. Prince Sultan described him as "the prince of loyalty" in a letter sent to him. Salman was also King Fahd's most trusted adviser during his reign.

His legal counsel was William Jeffress Jr., of U.S.-based firm Baker Botts LLP, in a lawsuit filed by families of victims of the September 11 attacks from 2002 to 2010.

In August 2010, Salman underwent spinal surgery in the United States and remained out of the kingdom for recovery. He has had one stroke and, despite receiving physiotherapy, his left arm does not work as well as his right. It has been reported that Salman has mild vascular dementia, in addition to reports of Alzheimer's dementia.

U.S. intelligence officials believe that King Salman has been kept apart from his wife Princess Fahda bint Falah Al Hithlain for several years, on the orders of their son Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Salman received the Lifetime Achievement Award of the Al-Turath Charity Foundation in the field of urban heritage in 2013. In 2017, Salman pledged US$15,000,000 for Rohingya Muslim refugees in Bangladesh.

In July 2020, King Salman underwent successful gallbladder surgery.

In May 2024, it was reported that King Salman had a lung infection and would be taking antibiotics.

Honours

 * Order of Sheikh Isa ibn Salman Al Khalifa.gif Collar of the Order of Sheikh Isa bin Salman Al Khalifa (2017)
 * BRU Royal Family Order of the Crown of Brunei.svg Royal Family Order of the Crown of Brunei (D.K.M.B.) (2017)
 * Order of the Grand Star of Djibouti - ribbon bar.gif Grand Cordon of the Order of National Star of Djibouti (2015)
 * EGY Order of the Nile - Grand Cordon BAR.svg Collar of the Order of the Nile (2016)
 * National Order of Merit - Grand Cross (Guinea).png Grand Cordon of the National Order of Merit (2015)
 * Bintang Republik Indonesia Adipurna rib.svg First Class of the Star of the Republic of Indonesia (2017)
 * JPN Daikun'i kikkasho BAR.svg Grand Cordon of the Order of the Chrysanthemum (2017)
 * JOR Al-Hussein ibn Ali Order BAR.svg Collar of the Order of Al-Hussein bin Ali (2017)
 * Order_of_Mubarak_the_Great_(Kuwait)_-_ribbon_bar.gif Collar of the Order of Mubarak the Great (2016)
 * Order of Kuwait (Special Class).gif Collar of the Order of Kuwait (2016)
 * MY Darjah Yang Mulia Pangkuan Negara (Defender of the Realm) - SMN.svg Honorary Commander of the Order of the Defender of the Realm (P.M.N.) (1982)
 * MY Darjah Utama Seri Mahkota Negara (Crown of the Realm) - DMN.svg Recipient of the Most Exalted Order of the Crown of the Realm (D.M.N.) (2017)
 * MEX Orden del Aguila Azteca 2011 Collar BAR.svg Collar of the Order of the Aztec Eagle (2016)
 * Ribbon Wissam al Mohamadi Morocco.png Collar of the Order of Muhammad (2016)
 * Ordre de l'Ouissam Alaouite GC ribbon (Maroc).svg Grand Cordon of the Order of Ouissam Alaouite (1987)
 * National Order - Grand Cross (Niger) - ribbon bar.png Grand Cross of the National Order of Niger (2015)
 * Order of Pakistan.png First Class of the Nishan-e-Pakistan (2015)
 * 🇴🇲 Oman:
 * The_Order_of_Al_Said.gif Grand Cordon with Collar of the Order of Al-Said (2021)
 * Grand Collar of the Order of the State of Palestine ribbon.svg Grand Collar of the State of Palestine (2015)
 * Order of Merit - Grand Cross (Senegal) - ribbon bar.png Grand Cordon of the Order of Merit of Senegal (1999)
 * Order of Merit for Defence - Knight (Brazil) - ribbon bar.png Collar of the Order of the Republic (2017)
 * Order of Civil Merit (Spain) GC.svg Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit (1974)
 * Order of the Republic (Tunisia) - ribbon bar.gif Grand Cordon of the Order of the Republic (2019)
 * Order of the State of Republic of Turkey.png Collar of the Order of the State of Republic of Turkey (2016)
 * Pasador Emblema de la Unidad.svg Grand Cordon of the Order of the Republic (2001)
 * Ribbon bar of the Order of Zayed.svg Collar of the Order of Zayed (2016)
 * Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise 1st 2nd and 3rd Class of Ukraine.png Collar of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise (2017)
 * Ord.GoldenEagle-ribbon.gif Grand Collar of the Order of the Golden Eagle (2022)
 * Order of Pakistan.png First Class of the Nishan-e-Pakistan (2015)
 * 🇴🇲 Oman:
 * The_Order_of_Al_Said.gif Grand Cordon with Collar of the Order of Al-Said (2021)
 * Grand Collar of the Order of the State of Palestine ribbon.svg Grand Collar of the State of Palestine (2015)
 * Order of Merit - Grand Cross (Senegal) - ribbon bar.png Grand Cordon of the Order of Merit of Senegal (1999)
 * Order of Merit for Defence - Knight (Brazil) - ribbon bar.png Collar of the Order of the Republic (2017)
 * Order of Civil Merit (Spain) GC.svg Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit (1974)
 * Order of the Republic (Tunisia) - ribbon bar.gif Grand Cordon of the Order of the Republic (2019)
 * Order of the State of Republic of Turkey.png Collar of the Order of the State of Republic of Turkey (2016)
 * Pasador Emblema de la Unidad.svg Grand Cordon of the Order of the Republic (2001)
 * Ribbon bar of the Order of Zayed.svg Collar of the Order of Zayed (2016)
 * Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise 1st 2nd and 3rd Class of Ukraine.png Collar of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise (2017)
 * Ord.GoldenEagle-ribbon.gif Grand Collar of the Order of the Golden Eagle (2022)
 * Order of the Republic (Tunisia) - ribbon bar.gif Grand Cordon of the Order of the Republic (2019)
 * Order of the State of Republic of Turkey.png Collar of the Order of the State of Republic of Turkey (2016)
 * Pasador Emblema de la Unidad.svg Grand Cordon of the Order of the Republic (2001)
 * Ribbon bar of the Order of Zayed.svg Collar of the Order of Zayed (2016)
 * Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise 1st 2nd and 3rd Class of Ukraine.png Collar of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise (2017)
 * Ord.GoldenEagle-ribbon.gif Grand Collar of the Order of the Golden Eagle (2022)
 * Ribbon bar of the Order of Zayed.svg Collar of the Order of Zayed (2016)
 * Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise 1st 2nd and 3rd Class of Ukraine.png Collar of the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise (2017)
 * Ord.GoldenEagle-ribbon.gif Grand Collar of the Order of the Golden Eagle (2022)
 * Ord.GoldenEagle-ribbon.gif Grand Collar of the Order of the Golden Eagle (2022)
 * Ord.GoldenEagle-ribbon.gif Grand Collar of the Order of the Golden Eagle (2022)

title: Salman of Saudi Arabia


text:
Talk:Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church

NPOV dispute
This article needs some substantial NPOV work. Whether the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church is a recognized religious group by DEA authorities, there is more to them than just a group accused of cannabis distribution.

I dunno. The Zion Coptics look to me like a group of white stoners who adopted the externalities of Rastafari in order to provide a justification for using marijuana. Back when they were active in Jamaica (having been legally incorporated by act of the Jamaican parliament), they published a newspaper called the "Coptic Times" which was distributed for free. I was reading a copy one day on a minibus in Kingston, and was asked by a dreadlocked gentleman what I was reading. I told him that it was a Rasta paper, he asked 'Dem check fi di Emperah?' When I replied in the negative, he said 'Den dem nuh Rasta.' I'd say that this POV needs to be taken into account. fledgist 02:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

I recommend this so-called "Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church" organisation to change its name QUICKLY in order not to throw people into confusion (it is neither the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church nor the Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt). Besides, Marcus Garvey was not a prophet. First because he denied publicly H.I.M. Haile Selassie I in a Jamaican newspaper, "The Blackman" (It was Published November 8, 1930); second because in 1916, Empress Zewditu had already appointed the Crown Prince Tafari Makonnen as Regent Plenipotentiary and Heir to the Throne. What some Rastas call a "prophecy" is in fact an open secret... Emperor Haile Selassie I is the Holy-Prophet for Rastafarians !

While your statements are all undoubtedly correct, I am constrained to point out, in the interest of fairness, that they can call themselves whatever they like as long as they aren't claiming to be other than what they are -- and they are not pretending to be either of the Oriental Orthodox churches you mention. I have to point out, also, that by act of the Jamaican parliament (in 1976) they are a corporate entity formally acknowledged to be such by the Jamaican state. If you want to change that, you'd need to lobby a Jamaican MP. fledgist 22:40, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the NPOV tag because, as it stands, the stub takes no position either for or against the EZCC. fledgist 22:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Notability
What is this groups claim for fame (Why is is notable)? Just wondering. Nashville Monkey 21:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The group's claim to fame is an appearance on 60 minutes years ago and a long fight with the DEA over the religious use of certain drugs. It also always comes up when stoners are out preaching their version of history. The reality of the organization has always been questionable. Its always looked from the outside like an American stoner hijack of Rasta. Its a product of the 1970s that long ago outlived any real useful purpose. 66.226.193.82 18:20, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Historical notability is notability, ie we arent an encyclopedia of what happens today and notability is based on what happened in the sixtuies. i would have thought it does pass notability, iof you really believe not it should be afd'd, SqueakBox 18:24, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I think the question was informational (as was my answer). The questioner wanted to understand the notibility but didn't seem to question it. Offering an opinion, the article is poorly written and while the subject is notible, the current content of the article does not really implicitly show why. Its not an easy subject to write about because there is actually very little useful true information about the group. The official history of the group written by itself is a long rant expressed in 1970's drug logic. And the secondary sources are poor. Any true history written would end up being considered original research. And if the original research were done, it would be difficult to get published because the subject is so obscure. Because we are an encyclopedia, we are at the mercy of publication and research interest in many subject areas. And when articles on obsecure subjects are created. I dont know that I have any point to make in all my rambling, but maybe if someone looks at this article in future the comments will have some value. 66.226.193.82

 * I have been compiling as much information as I can about the group, and intend to make some more significant edits to the page when I have things in shape. I agree there is not a huge amount of secondary information available, secretive organisations involved in crime can be like that, but there is some.  There were many press reports about them in the 1970s and early 1980s, and in recent years Clifton Middleton, a member has written an autobiography.  Alan Meyerson has also recorded a 10-part podcast on his history with the group (https://yourbrothercast.com/).  There are also some small bits of information about them in several books on Rastafari and journal papers.  They were also in the documentary 'Square Grouper' made in 2011 (magnolia pictures). I agree that the page needs a more neutral point of view and will try to include as many sources as I can.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Topatopranks (talk • contribs) 00:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Who was Olsen? The former Libertarian candidate for for governor of Iowa, and for Congress is mentioned only by the name "Olsen", and without any explanation of how is might be connected to this group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SRBirch922 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I believe it is Carl Olsen, a member of the group (see him here https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-olsen-3779a78). Also comment here - https://barbarablakehannah.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/remember-the-coptics/#comment-167, he is mentioned on page 242 of Cliffton Middleton's book (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ganja-Warrior-Priest-CLIFTON-MIDDLETON-ebook/dp/B08RY4X1CY). Topatopranks (talk) 23:50, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Social Work
I have talked to a former leader of this Church (who is now based in South Africa), and he told me the income from the marijuana exportation was used to fund social programmes in Kingston and Jamaica.Es-won (talk) 21:19, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church


text:
Corrole

A corrole is an aromatic tetrapyrrole. The corrin ring is also present in cobalamin (vitamin B12). The ring consists of nineteen carbon atoms, with four nitrogen atoms in the core of the molecule. In this sense, corrole is very similar to porphyrin.

Preparation
Corroles can be prepared by a two-step process, beginning with the condensation reaction of a benzaldehyde with pyrrole. The open-ring product, a bilane (or tetrapyrrane), is cyclized by oxidation, typically with p-chloranil:

Comparison with porphyrins
Corrole and porphyrins differ in several ways. Corroles are triprotic, whereas porphyrins are diprotic. Because of the 3- charge of the triply deprotonated ligand, metallocorroles are formally high-valent. Several are redox-noninnocent, with a corrole radical-dianion ligand. A second difference between corroles and porphyrins is the size of the metal-binding cavity, i.e., 17- vs 18-membered rings. See "Porphyrins and similar compounds" in conjugated systems for more about these side by side images of porphyrin, chlorin, and corrin structures:

Coordination complexes
Corroles have been attached to a wide range of transition metals, main group elements, and lanthanides, actinides. and the diprotonated, neutral corrole radical. Additionally, corroles and their metal complexes have been demonstrated to be useful as imaging agents in tumor detection, oxygen sensing, for prevention of heart disease, in synthetic chemistry as oxo, imido, and nitrido transfer agents, and as catalysts for the catalytic reduction of oxygen to water, and hydrogen production form water under aerobic conditions.

Protein-corrole particles have been investigated as carriers of theranostic cargo for tumor targeting.

title: Corrole


text:
User:SebastianHelm/categorization

Remember:
 * Browse
 * Categories, lists, and series boxes
 * Wikipedia_talk:Categorization_policy
 * Categories as semi-dynamic lists? "cat/list-hybrid page" proposed by User:Gerbrant aka Shinobu.
 * WikiProject_Categories

Wishes:
 * User_talk:R._S._Shaw
 * Wikipedia talk:Categorization policy, Categorization_policy
 * Categorization

title: User:SebastianHelm/categorization


text:
User talk:VictoriaTrow

Ħěý ĄĿŀ

Wassup? I cant really think why anyone would want to look up me, but crap happens. Im 13, live in New Zealand and have an IQ of 127. Actually, maybe more, as I did that a year ago. I love art, reading and English (the subject, although I speak the language rather fluently, if I do say so myself). I have 3 sisters, no boyfriend (sigh) and am into Avril Lavigne, 48 May and guys. I have a best friend, Salina, who lives in Korea, and no pets, sad, but my cousins have 2 dogs that I love. By now, you probably have the pants bored off you, but I cant seem to find anything more interesting to do at the moment. Please edit this page and talk to me. -Vic

title: User talk:VictoriaTrow


text:
Talk:Salman of Saudi Arabia

Abdullah.os son's.1977/10/10ocen cholden
Where musanaxt06/11/2023 Md.nizamuddin7080@emil. 58.145.188.244 (talk) 02:08, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Salman of Saudi Arabia


text:
Talk:English phonemes

This article is non-sensical. Every dialect has a different set of phonemes. The article should describe the phonemes in different dialects. The article assumes that there is no distinction within dialects and confuses everything. That's ridiculous.

The article should also explain why the phonemes are abbreviated with those symbols, and not with other symbols. For example, why is /t/ abbreviated like that, and not with the symbol of another allophone within the phoneme, for example the (fishhook r)?

Besides, the pronunciation should be described with the International Phonetic Alphabet, not with IPA-ASCII. If you want to use IPA-ASCII, use it in addition to the IPA, not as a substitute.

Another thing: the capital "P" in the title is ridiculous. "Phoneme" is a common noun, not a proper noun. Common nouns are not capitalized in Wikipedia article titles. At least that's the custom here.

non-sense
To points 1 and 2 above, I agree that this is non-sensical. The page references http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm, but I cannot find the ASCII representation this page uses on that site or elsewhere after several minutes. This page would probably be better off deleted and started from scratch. I am ignorant of wiki formatting, though, and in addition adding IPA symbols seems too daunting for me at the moment. Dubson 9 July 2005 00:06 (UTC)

 * It doesn't just not make sense, but the information that the article would have if it were fully expanded is already available in the received pronunciation and general american articles. Maybe it should be deleted. AEuSoes1 22:30, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

 * I vote for making it phoneme correspondances. Every distinction any (major? how do we define major?) dialect makes would have a row, and each column would show how different dialects pronounce that sound. It'd be long and mostly uninteresting, but it might have some value—more than anything else you could do with this page. (It shows not only splits and mergers, but also direct and simple equivalences, such as AmE /ɛ/ vs AusE /e/ e.g.

 * {|class="wikitable"

 * || RP || AusE || NYE || GAm. ||
 * bath  || ɑː || ɐː   || ɛə  || æ    || trap-bath split; æ-tensing
 * plant || ɑː || æː   || ɛə  || æ    || trap-bath split; bad-lad split; æ-tensing
 * bad   || æ  || æː   || ɛə  || æ    || bad-lad split; æ-tensing
 * trap   || æ  || æ    || æ   || æ
 * bed   || ɛ  || e    || ɛ   || ɛ
 * }
 * bad   || æ  || æː   || ɛə  || æ    || bad-lad split; æ-tensing
 * trap   || æ  || æ    || æ   || æ
 * bed   || ɛ  || e    || ɛ   || ɛ
 * }
 * bed   || ɛ  || e    || ɛ   || ɛ
 * }

 * I don't mean to include only those ones, they're just the ones necessary to show the point.

 * — Felix the Cassowary 05:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * That's great, only it's already done in the IPA chart for English
 * AEuSoes1 18:46, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh, right you are; I agree then, this page can be deleted and made a redir to somewhere else. — Felix the Cassowary 12:28, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Unless someone objects, I'll probably change the article to a redirect to IPA chart for English, and add a link to this talk page from its one. —Felix the Cassowary (User talk:Cassowary) 03:48, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Support merge. This article should be redirected to IPA chart for English. – AxSkov ( ☏ ) 06:42, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Support the merger. --Angr/undefined 06:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:English phonemes


text:
Talk:Hastings Cutoff

Untitled
I'm still new at this; let me know if I've violated any policies. I've generally wikified this and improved the grammar and spelling, but I'll leave the copy-edit tag in case there's something I've missed.

One thing I don't understand: is "cutoff" an American or archaic word for "shortcut"? It's not a word I would normally use; there is no Wiktionary entry for it; and the Wikipedia entry refers to a term in physics. Clarification would be helpful! Aholcombe 05:57, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * "Cutoff" is a 19th century term for "shortcut" and is frequently encountered in trail literature.
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.35.254.5 (talk • contribs) 00:09, October 24, 2006
 * See also Meek Cutoff and Elliott Cutoff. Katr67 17:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Hastings Cutoff