text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/KaintheScion et al.

Case Opened on 18:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Case Closed on July 2, 2005 01:39 (UTC)

Please do not edit this page directly unless you wish to become a participant in this request. (All participants are subject to Arbitration Committee decisions, and the ArbCom will consider each participant's role in the dispute.) Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.

Arbitrators will be working on a proposed decision at /Proposed decision.

Involved parties

 * User:KaintheScion
 * User:ElKabong
 * User:Enviroknot
 * User:Firebug
 * User:SlimVirgin
 * User:Zscout370
 * User:Jayjg
 * User:Yuber

Statement by Firebug
This user's editing habits are extremely problematic. He has little regard for the 3RR, and has been blocked on several occasions for this. He routinely engages in personal attacks on other users in edit summaries and on Talk pages. He has been advised multiple times on his User Talk pages that this is a violation of Wikipedia policy, but continues to do so. He is fond of calling other users "liars" and "vandals" and has accused multiple editors and administrators of bad faith and POV-pushing with no justification. He has made false reports of vandalism on WP:VIP when users made edits he disagreed with. A look at his contributions show that nearly half of them contain insults or obscenities in the edit summaries. Equally problematic, this user utilizes abusive sockpuppets. A check run by User:David Gerard indicates that User:KaintheScion and User:ElKabong are one and the same individual. I strongly suspect, based on editing habits, that User:Enviroknot is a sockpuppet as well.

Statement by SlimVirgin
(aka, ) and has caused considerable disruption with his personal attacks on article and user talk pages, and his editing-by-revert. Since May 7, the three user names and the IP address have jointly been blocked three times for 3RR, once for vandalism, once for block evasion, and once for violation of the sockpuppet policy. During the blocks, the personal attacks, often highly abusive, continue by e-mail, directed at the admin who blocked the account.

ElKabong often edits the same pages as Yuber, and has subjected him to personal attacks, including calling him a "lying, Islamist f***" at Talk:Islamofascism. Two examples of personal attacks on my talk page from ElKabong are "Screw you, LIAR" and "ElKabong NOT KaintheScion get it f***ing right you idiot."

Regarding Environknot, I recently blocked User:66.69.141.11 for evading a block by posting while ElKabong was blocked, as the pattern of edits strongly suggested they were the same person. I received an e-mail in response to this block from a Cranston Snord, with the e-mail address "environknot at ..." and the same 66.69.141.11 IP address. This address resolves to the University of Houston, Texas; the IP address of the first (known) sockpuppet of this user, KaintheScion, also resolves to Houston, Texas.

If the committee decides to take this case, a tempban from editing articles related to the Middle East or Islam would alleviate the disruption. SlimVirgin (talk) 17:20, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Zscout370
My issue with Kain/El is that he likes to attack me by using my scouting past. He does so with his edit summaries and also by vandalizing my user page. This edit,, he added this to my talk page: "A Scout is supposed to be TRUSTWORTHY. It's a pity you are not." He has done that, mainly since, along with Firebug and SlimVirgin, keep on adding in evidence that KaintheScion was a sockpuppet of ElKabong. When he saw that I reverted his edit, he reverted back and used this edit summary: "Scouts are supposed to be TRUSTWORTHY, Zscout. They should rip that badge off your chest." I believe his personal attacks are getting way to much for any Wikipedian to bear, so that is why I am supporting Firebug and SlimVirgin in building this case to you all. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 17:57, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Jayjg
User ElKabong/KaintheScion has engaged in a series of needless personal attacks, often laced with profanity, against both people with whom he disagrees on article content, and any admins who point out that he is using sockpuppets. I have made a number of attempts to convince him to stop this behaviour, trying to use self-interest to motivate him. However, my attempts were met with more invective and justifications for his behaviour. I think this editor's actions indicate severe and continuing policy violations that warrant a rapid appraisal by ArbCom. Jayjg (talk) 20:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Enviroknot
I will take the accusations made against me one at a time, since it is obvious that these users are not interested in the betterment of Wikipedia but in pursuing some personal/political agendas.

They completely ignore Wikipedia policy on the matter, particularly this portion, and instead have added me to their list of supposed sockpuppets for the "crime" of not agreeing with them:

Keep in mind there can be multiple users who are driven to start participating in Wikipedia for the same reason, particularly in controversial areas such as articles about the conflict in the Middle East, cult figures, or Wikipedia:Votes for deletion."

Firebug's statement that I am a sockpuppet is ridiculous on its face, but that has not stopped this user from making these attacks. Further, without even bothering to message me, without bothering to ask me a single question, and without any evidence, he defaced my user page with a sockpuppet template.

Likewise with Yuber, who made the initial accusation that I was a sockpuppet; I believe that this has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with the fact that Yuber was attempting to gain an advantage in content dispute with his false allegation. Anything more I would say on Yuber would be material for an RFC of its own; the basics regarding Yuber's behavior are well spelled out in the KaintheScion RFC, including comments which Jayjg has made about Yuber's substandard behavior.
 * Additional: regarding this edit, it appears that Yuber is reaching. I ran a search on "Yhulkop" the user, intending to warn them of this RFAr, and the search came up blank. Who are they, and what do they have to do with this matter?
 * Additional 2: it appears that garnering this sort of attention from Yuber is very easy.

As for Slimvirgin, her first email to me was an abusive accusation that I am one of these other two users, which I find disheartening. A quick look back in her edit summaries showed me that she has been hounding these two users for some time. The same seems to be true for a number of users, particularly after looking at ElKabong's page. I cannot believe that there is not something that these users are doing that is goading ElKabong to continue.

As for ZScout, I left a message on his user page when he started jumping in on Yuber's bandwagon, accusing me of being a sockpuppet. His response was to post a message telling me to weigh in on the KaintheScion RFC; after reading the RFC, it was clear to me that it had not been initiated in good faith, so I saw no point in doing so.

Regarding Jayjg, while I believe he meant well, his choice of wording in his messages to these two users is very poor; he essentially states that even if they have valid complaints, their expressing of the complaints is against Wikipedia policy. It appears that the mere expression of belief that Admins or Editors are behaving in bad faith is being considered a "personal attack" while similar comments by the others are not, and this is definitely a double standard.

In fact, the only editor who I would say has behaved with decorum in these incidents (after reading KaintheScion and ElKabong's comment pages) is Knowledge Seeker.

The quickness with which these users accused me of being a sockpuppet of these individuals indicates to me that they are pursuing some hidden agenda; whether it is simply the pushing of a POV on certain articles, or whether it is something larger, I cannot say as I do not have enough information.

Incidentally, my IP address comes from Roadrunner, that is, Time Warner. I'm sure I need not inform you that they hand out their IP addresses by DHCP, nor do I need to point out precisely how large a user base they have. Enviroknot

 * At this point I would also like to register my disgust with the conspirators who feel they have some right to deface my user page with no evidence, and especially my disgust with Yuber who, far from having "tried to cooperate and compromise", has a long history of creating revert wars as well as getting himself banned for 3RR violations thereby.
 * See Also: Statement by Jayjg regarding Yuber in Talk:Kharaj What, yet another article in which he can continually delete well-sourced information that doesn't agree with his POV, while simultaneously making claims of his own which simply don't match the sources provided? That's an appealing thought. Jayjg (talk) 03:23, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * See Also: Statement by Yuber in Talk:Saudi Arabia, clearly false Grace Note sees it my way. I was the one who originally added the mutaween section!!!! Then Kain came here and changed it to found in MOST muslim nations. I told him that's totally false and he got into an edit war with me. I told him only Nigeria, Iran, and Saudi have religious police and he still wouldn't believe me.Yuber(talk) 21:18, 13 May 2005 (UTC) Factually, the Mutaween section in Saudi Arabia was created by ElKabong 1, and then Yuber immediately attempted to start a Revert War against its existence 12, following by reverting every edit made to the entry. After his edit wars had caused the page to be protected, Yuber vanished; after admin Nixie had unprotected the page, Yuber returned the following day and immediately began making the controversial edits again, leading to more edit wars.
 * I have no agreement with the language ElKabong was using, but Yuber's behavior is CLEARLY not in good faith and the behavior of the admins in the matter did nothing to help the situation, as they behaved in a manner as to indicate they were taking Yuber's side. Enviroknot 03:49, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

(response to David Gerard)
 * I have already sent my response to the en-l list on these laughable assertions regarding me twice. Enviroknot 16:56, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Statement by ElKabong
I think this message I received today says it all.

''You ought to cut a deal with this guys, and do it very quickly, or this will be the end of your time on Wikipedia. Arbitration is a rigged game: you play, you lose. I don't know whether you care or not, but I just wanted to give you that bit of advice. Everyking 05:03, 27 May 2005 (UTC)''

If it's a rigged game, and it obviously is, there's no point in playing. And as long as a bunch of POV-pushing Islamists and power-mad Admins are persecuting me, there's no point in being here. You can all GFYS.

Incidentally, there IS no sockpuppetry going on, though I'm sure David Gerard will keep lying out his ass regarding that.

I'm removing the sockpuppetry bullshit from Enviroknot's page. It has no business being there. Firebug and Mel Etitis, fuck you for putting it on an innocent user's page.

Statement by Yuber
ElKabong/Enviroknot/KaintheScion has been waging a "war" against Islam-related articles over the past few weeks with many different sockpuppets. I have tried to cooperate and compromise with him on several articles but he has only responded with personal attacks and ramblings about how I am an Islamist. Please see the RFC for his sockpuppet KaintheScion here. I feel there is nothing left for me to say as the people that have made statements in this request have basically covered everything. That RFC provides even more evidence.Yuber(talk) 03:01, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (5/0/1/0)

 * Accept; personal attack injunction and/or injunction on editing outside of case pages likely. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 20:55, 2005 May 26 (UTC)
 * Accept, per Grunt. Ambi 00:04, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Recuse for now - I have a pile of evidence to add on the sockpuppetry and the nice email I've been receiving - David Gerard 10:19, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * For now, see and . In short: ElKabong = KaintheScion = Enviroknot = "Cranston Snord" = the IPs using these names - David Gerard 10:22, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept -- sannse (talk) 20:23, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept Fred Bauder 02:21, May 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept ➥the Epopt 15:49, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Temporary injunction (none)
=Final decision =

Sockpuppets
1) While is is permissible for a person to have several user accounts on Wikipedia, such accounts may be misused in a variety of ways. When there is uncertainty whether a party is one user with sockpuppets or several users with similar editing habits they may be treated as one user with sockpuppets, see Sock puppet
 * Passed 6-0

Template:Sockpuppet
1.1) While controversial and perhaps exacerbating conflict, it is acceptable to place Template:Sockpuppet on the user page of a suspected account together with links to supporting evidence, see Sock_puppet.
 * Passed 6-0

No personal attacks
2) Personal attacks and disparaging remarks directed at other users are unacceptable, see No personal attacks
 * Passed 6-0

Advocacy
3) Wikipedia is not a platform for advocacy, see What Wikipedia is not.
 * Passed 6-0

Editing bans
4) Wikipedia editors may be banned from articles where their point of view advocacy has proven disruptive.
 * Passed 6-0

Sockpuppets
1), , , , , , and possibly , and  are controlled by the same person Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive22, Requests_for_arbitration/KaintheScion_et_al./Evidence
 * Passed 6-0

Template:Sockpuppet
2) Template:Sockpuppet has been placed on User:ElKabong, User:Enviroknot and User:KaintheScion. Placement of the template has been vigorously contested by Enviroknot, see page history, Template talk:Sockpuppet, Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/April_2005, Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard, Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard and Administrators%27_noticeboard
 * Passed 6-0

Islamofascism and Islamic fascism
3) User:Enviroknot strongly advocated retention and elaboration of the articles Islamofascism and Islamic fascism, since redirected to Neofascism and religion, see Talk:Islamofascism.
 * Passed 6-0

Attacks on "Islamists"
3) User:Enviroknot has made personal attacks on his Wikipedia opponents who he perceives as "Islamist.", , , and
 * Passed 6-0

One account
1) User:Enviroknot is required to use the account Enviroknot and no other.
 * Passed 6-0

One year ban
2.1) User:Enviroknot is banned from editing Wikipedia for one year.
 * Passed 6-0

Enforcement
2.1) Verified use of sockpuppets while the one year ban is in place shall result in the ban being reset, as per standard Arbitration Committee practice.
 * Passed 5-0


text:
Cuerpo de Fuerzas Especiales

The Special Forces Corps (Cuerpo de Fuerzas Especiales) are the special forces battalions of the Mexican Army. Formerly the Special Forces Airmobile Group (Grupo Aeromóvil de Fuerzas Especiales) or GAFE, the SF corps has six regular battalions; plus four specialized units, one of those units is the Fuerza Especial de Reaccion, the other three remain secretive for the public; the motto of the SF Corps is Todo por México (Everything for Mexico).

Within the SF Corps, there are regular, intermediate, and veteran -service troops. The regular-service soldiers usually operate as light infantry. The intermediate and veteran-service soldiers (officers and sergeants) usually are instructors known as COFE or CSFE. Most of the veteran-service soldiers of the Fuerzas Especiales del Alto Mando (FEs High Command) handle Black-Ops missions.

History

GAFE was created in 1986 as the "Fuerza de Intervención Rápida" (Rapid Intervention Force) to provide security for the FIFA World Cup soccer games in Mexico City. France's GIGN trained the group in special weapons and counter-terrorism tactics. On 1 June 1990, the group adopted its most known name, GAFE, becoming a Corps (with division-sized formation) in 2013 as part of the expansion of the Army. It again changed its name from GAFE to Special Forces Corps in 2004.

Eight years later (in 1994) the GAFEs saw action fighting EZLN guerrillas in Chiapas. There is scant public information about the operations in which they participated during that conflict. During the 1990s, the GAFE reportedly received training in commando and urban warfare from Israeli special forces and American Special Forces units, which included training in rapid deployment, marksmanship, ambushes, counter-surveillance and the art of intimidation. It is also known that at some point several members were trained in the infamous US Army School of the Americas,  in enhanced interrogation techniques and psychological warfare (Psy-Ops).

Nowadays the army special forces continue fighting the war against drug cartels in Mexico. They have successfully captured many big drug leaders such as Benjamin Arellano Felix of the Tijuana Cartel, Carlos Rosales Mendoza of La Familia Cartel and Osiel Cardenas Guillen of the Gulf Cartel.

Controversies
In 1994 the EZLN guerrilla seized several towns across the southern state of Chiapas. The Mexican government sent in "GAFEs" to put down the insurgents. Within hours, 30 rebels were killed and others were captured. Later their bodies were disposed on a riverbank – with their ears and noses sliced off.

In 1996, about 34 GAFE defectors were recruited to join the Gulf Cartel, serving as the cartel's armed wing - which became known as Los Zetas. This group also recruited national and foreign military personnel (like U.S. Army soldiers and Guatemalan Kaibiles), corrupt police officers and street gang members, and used their knowledge of torture and psychological warfare to terrorize their rivals and innocent civilians alike. By 2011 only 10 of the original 34 zetas remained fugitives. Most of them have been killed or captured by Mexican Special Forces.

It is alleged that on 2 October 2013 during a demonstration by so-called "anarchist youth groups"   to protest against the Mexican President  and to commemorate the 1968 Tlatelolco student massacre, undercover GAFEs worked as agent provocateurs to disrupt the march and cause the riot police to crush it.

Training
Since its creation they have received a wide variety of training from different special forces groups from around the world (including the French GIGN, Israeli Sayeret and American Green Berets). The Army unified all the knowledge by creating in 1998 the Escuela Militar de Fuerzas Especiales (En. Special Forces Military School). This became the "Centro de Adiestramiento de Fuerzas Especiales" (Special Forces Training Center), located in the foothills of the Iztaccíhuatl volcano, on 1 May 2002. The basic special forces course lasts 6 months.

 * Special Forces Instructors' Officers Course (Curso de Oficiales Instructores de las Fuerzas Especiales – COIFE)
 * Ranks Officers Training of Special Forces (CACFE)
 * Specialized Training for Special Forces Instructors and Officers (Curso Avanzado de Instructores de Fuerzas Especiales – CAIFE)

Training scenarios

 * Jungle/Amphibious/Combat Diving: Jungle and Amphibious Operations Training Center, Xtomoc, Quintana Roo. Training also takes place in different scenarios in the state of Guerrero.
 * Urban/Intervention: San Miguel de los Jagueyes, La Casa de la Muerte in Puebla and Temamatla, Estado de México.
 * Mountain: El Salto, Durango, and Guerrero.
 * Desert Operations Training Center: Laguna Salada and Baja California
 * Airmobile/Airborne: Air Force base of Santa Lucía, Estado de México and Guerrero.
 * High mountain: Nevado de Toluca, Iztaccíhuatl and Pico de Orizaba volcanoes.

Organization
The CFE proper, reporting to the SEDENA in Mexico City, is headquartered in Temamatla, Mexico and is divided into:

Four secretive specialized units:
 * 1st SF Battalion
 * 2nd SF Battalion
 * 3rd SF Battalion
 * 4th SF Battalion
 * 5th SF Battalion
 * 6th SF Battalion (Sonora, México)

 * Special Reaction Force
 * Unknown
 * Unknown
 * Unknown

Transportation

 * UH-60 Black Hawk, Mil Mi-17, CH-53 Yas'ur 2000, MD 530F, Bell 212 and Bell 412 helicopters.
 * Fast Attack Vehicle/Light Strike Vehicle, Humvee, customized Dodge Ram pickup trucks, all-terrain vehicles, Plasan Sand Cat, off-road motorcycles and inflatable/fast boats.

Pistols

 * Heckler & Koch P7M13
 * Beretta 92F
 * M1911 pistol
 * Glock 17
 * SIG Sauer P320

Short-barreled

 * Heckler & Koch MP5
 * FN P90

Rifles

 * FX-05 Xiuhcoatl
 * M4 Carbine
 * Heckler & Koch G3
 * SIG Sauer SIG516
 * FN SCAR

Precision Rifles

 * Heckler & Koch PSG1
 * M24 Sniper Weapon System
 * Remington 700
 * Sniper Rifle Morelos
 * AX308

Anti-materiel / Hard targets

 * Barrett M82 (.50 BMG)

Shotguns

 * Remington 1100
 * Mossberg 500

Machine guns

 * FN MAG
 * Heckler & Koch HK21E
 * M249 light machine gun

Grenade launchers

 * M203 grenade launcher
 * Milkor MGL Mk 1

Anti-Tank

 * B-300
 * RPG-29
 * RL-83 Blindicide

Other

 * CornerShot

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cuerpo de Fuerzas Especiales


text:
Talk:Fabry disease

Alpha-galactosidase in section called "Enzyme replacement therapy". Beano, Bean-zyme, etc
Alpha-galactosidase is mentioned in that section. At only US$200,000 per patient per year.

Are the cheap oral forms effective at all? See: Alpha-galactosidase:

Let me add Bean-zyme. My last bottle of 500 tablets at 400 GALU per tablet cost $31.99 total (free shipping).

So if the oral form helps at all, shouldn't this be mentioned in the article too? Along with the approximate generic prices. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:06, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fabry disease


text:
Talk:Cape May Point, New Jersey

the cape may lighthouse has much histroical significance

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.nj.gov/education/pr/1213/narrative/09/0710/09-0710-000.html
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External links modified
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Schools
While the Julie Lasky NYT article of 2021 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/realestate/cape-may-nj-new-yorkers-living.html states that Cape May Point residents have a choice of schools, so do people in other municipalities due to the Interdistrict Public School Choice Program. In fact the Cape May Point School District directly specifies Cape May Elementary School as the receiving elementary. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:08, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cape May Point, New Jersey


text:
James E. Williams (Atlanta mayor)

James Etheldred Williams (January 16, 1826 – April 10, 1900) was an American politician who served as a two-term mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, during Reconstruction.

Born in Grainger County, Tennessee, the second of ten children, he began working in Knoxville in the post office and, with his cousins, operated a line of steamboats on the Tennessee River from that city to Decatur, Alabama.

He moved to Atlanta in October 1851, and with his Tennessee connections was able to set up a prosperous warehousing business. He built a larger warehouse on Decatur Street in Atlanta with an upper floor that was used as the popular theater of the time, the Atheneum. He ran both until their destruction in 1864 during the burning of Atlanta in the Civil War. Williams was not physically fit for active service during the Civil War. but after his warehouse was destroyed, he became a fireman under Captain Samuel B. Sherwood.

Politically, he was "Always a Democrat, strongly opposed to Whiggery, Know-Nothingism and Abolitionism" and was a staunch secessionist. He served on the Atlanta city council before and after the war, and served as two terms as mayor (the second was extended to 1868 by order of the commandant of the post of Atlanta, Major General John Pope).

He then began independent trading, but retired from active business in 1880.

title: James E. Williams (Atlanta mayor)


text:
Talk:Rumelia

Rumeli Today
Today the word "Rumeli" is sometimes used to indicate the part of Turkey which is in Europe. -- Anyone know exactly how big that area (European Turkey) is in terms of square kilometers? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.219.41.226 (talk • contribs)
 * 24,378 square kilometres, according to Turkey. QuartierLatin1968 [[Image:Red flag waving transparent.png|20px|El bien mas preciado es la libertad]] 22:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge with Rum & Rum Province
As I've just discovered, there are currently separate articles for Rumelia, Rûm, and Rûm Province, Ottoman Empire. Should the first two not be merged? (One's just a more latinized version of the other, as far as I can tell.) QuartierLatin1968 19:47, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

 * oppose Not neccessarily, Rumelia is a geographical and historical region, Rum province was an administrative region of the ottoman empire whereas Rum refers to a (more or less) ethnic connotation.. Over the centuries Rum was used to mean peoples of the ancient Byzantine Empire (particularly for Greeks). The ottoman sultan who conquered constantinople titled himself Kaiser-i Rum, meaning the ceasar of the romans.. You can think of the three articles like history of new york, new york state and newyorker.. Baristarim 22:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * oppose Although the names obviously have the same origin, the present articles Rumelia and Rûm are about different things. I think that reflects reality: the words are used in different ways. Andrew Dalby 15:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * oppose per above. — Khoikhoi 16:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * oppose: These are two different areas; Rumelia is in the Balkans, Rūm is in Turkey. RandomCritic 21:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * oppose Although the names etimologicly have the same origin, the present articles Rumelia and Rûm are about totaly different things. I think  the words are used in different ways. Greek megola idea reflects sould be controled.--3210 05:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * oppose per above. — LlywelynII  13:03, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Name
Okay, Britannica might be one source, but any Turkish dictionary you open you'll find out that 'rum' translates to 'Greek' or in modern times 'Greek of turkish citizenship'. Most importantly, there's a different word to say "Roman". 'Rum' comes from the Arabic 'Ram', which was a name for Byzantium and sometimes for ancient Greece. Either way in post-Byzantine times 'Rum' refers only to Greeks, and it's still in used today for Greeks of Turkish citizenship and Cypriots. Denying this fact is like reducing the status of ethnic Greeks in Turkey and Cyprus to a subjet people who doesn't have the right to claim an ethnicity. Miskin 20:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Hi,
 * Let me start giving the url of the word item in TDK's dictionary.

 * TDK - Rum entry

 * The word in question means 'a person of Greek origin who lives in a Muslim country' only in modern use. And the other meaning, which is the historical one, denotes 'a citizen of the East Roman Empire', and precisely means 'a roman', which is our case. You can check in the dictionary of which I gave the link.

 * The word for Greek proper in Turkish is 'Yunan'. And the word for Greece is 'Yunanistan'.

 * I hope this was explanatory.

 * Chapultepec 21:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well and it just happens that the ancestors of the citizens of the Eastern Roman Empire became known as Yunan only within the borders of the Greek state, and carried the name Rum all the way from the middle ages, so it's not as simple as you think. So according to this logic, ethnic Greeks of muslim countries do not have the right to proclaim a separate ethnicity, is that it? You just admitted that those Greek are known as Rum. It's as if you're suggesting that we should intentionally try to hide the fact that they proclaim an ethnic background by playing with the words. Miskin 21:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore the Islamic desk reference by E. Van Donzel (Brill academic publishers) states that "The Byzantine Empire is called 'Rum' in Arabic, Persian and Turkish...Occasionally it [Rum] also indicates ancient Greece", proving that even in medieval times the original term was linked with ethnic Greeks, or Greek-speakers if you prefer. Miskin 21:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Hi again,

 * The fact that modern Turks use the word 'Rum' for the Greeks living in Muslim countries while using the word 'Yunan' for the Greeks living in Greece is out of our topic. What we are debating about is the historical land ,namely Rumelia, and the meaning of it. And I think my former explanation was satisfactory.
 * I assure you that I'm not suggesting anything about any ethnic backgrounds and I'm not playing with words. What I try to do is to show the word 'Rumelia' means 'land of the Romans' in Turkish. I don't have any other intentions.
 * I think here the important thing is the word's Turkish meaning, not the meaning in the other languages.
 * Chapultepec 21:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

My debate is on the definition (modern and historical) of 'Rum' in general, and I think my sources are satisfactory. I've also linked 3 dictionaries that I picked at random. It doesn't seem that your link proves in any way that Rum is not used for Greeks. By the time 'Rumelia' was applied there were no Eastern Romans, it appears that you're trying to hide the real translation of the word. Precisely because the importance is the Turkish meaning, it's that meaning that needs to be translated into english, not the etymology of the word. It's like claiming that "anti-semitism" isn't directed towards the Jews because "Semitic peoples" includes Arabs, Phoenicians and other "Afro-asiatic" peoples. Etymology of a word is one thing, definition is another. Miskin 21:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Besides your own assertion is anachronistic, you said the term applies to the citizens of the Eastern Roman Empire and the ethnic Greeks of modern times. But 'Rumelia' wasn't coined in neither of those periods, it was in between, but you never explained what happens then, i.e. before "modern times" and after the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire. Was there an "ethnic Eastern Roman" minority in the Ottoman Empire? And what happened to it afterwards? Then we have other sources saying that 'Rum' was also used occasionally for ancient Greece. 1+1=2, don't you think that it was a term generally applied to Greek-speakers? It probably started off to mean Greek-speakers of the Orthodox Christian faith, i.e. what came to mean "ethic Greeks". Miskin 21:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Hi,
 * The dictionary which I provided is the most prominent dictionary of Turkey, and the word's definition in one of your sources, namely seslisozluk.com, was taken from TDK's dictionary. You can check if you like to.
 * The etymology of the word is given in blue letters, namely 'özel, isim Arapça rum'. And the definition is given right below the etymology.
 * The definition has three entries:
 * 1. A person of Greek origin who lives in a Muslim country.
 * 2. Historical, a Roman citizen who lives within the borders of East Roman Empire.
 * 3. Old, Anatolia.

 * This is the translation of the text and clearly denotes what I want to mean. So, my citing was precisely the definition, not the etymology.
 * Precisely there were East Romans within the first two centuries of the Ottoman state, namely 14th and 15th centuries. And that's why the Turks called firstly Anatolia, then the southern Balkans 'the Roman land'.
 * Additionaly, the word was created during the presence of East Roman empire. Not after it.
 * Just to remind, the term for ethnic Greeks in Turkish is 'Yunan'.

 * Chapultepec 21:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

You're still not answering my questions. You're still not explaining how did ethnic Greeks in the 19th century came to have the same name as the Eastern Romans (in Greek and Turkish), live in the same lands and speak the same language. Your bolding of certain words and phrases in the dictionary definitions implies a personal interpretation of something self-evident hiding between the lines, an interpretation to which I don't agree. So who were the "Greeks" (Yunan) during the time of the Eastern Romans (Byzantine Greeks). Did they not exist yet? For your claims to be reasonable you need at least to prove that the Ottomans who coined "Rumelia" made a distinction between Eastern Romans (Rum) and Greeks (Yunan). Miskin 22:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Miskin, firstly I must state that I'm not claiming anything. I'm just editing according to the sources. As far as I know Britannica is a prominent source. And TDK is the most reliable dictionary of the Turkish language. What I do is to cite what they read.
 * Turks called all the citizens of East Roman empire 'the Romans', namely 'Rum', without making any discrimination of whatever their ethnic origin was or whatever language they spoke. Of course there were Greek speaking citizens among them along with the others.
 * Turkey: A Country Study By Federal Research Division
 * In early periods the term 'Yunan' was used especially for the people living in the Mora peninsula. After the independence of the Greeks the term started to be used for the Greeks living in Greece.
 * Chapultepec 22:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I just don't agree to your interpretation of TDK. I don't see how its use of "historically" excludes modern times. Plus, everybody who was self-recognised as "rhomaios" (Rum) had to be Greek speaking and Greek Orthodox, hence why in modern times you don't get Slavs and Albanians calling themselves Romans but only Greeks. You try to interpret the past without taking the present into consideration, something which is impossible and misleading. Plus it seems that you believe to right-winged arguments (without saying that you're an extremist yourself) by implying that modern Greeks are the ancestors of many different people and the known stories. Miskin 22:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

And what is your source that Yunan was once used for the people of Morea? Miskin 22:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

 * This was the direct translation of the definition of the word, not my commentary. And of course the historical definition is the important one since Rumelia is a historical land. To believe or not to believe is at your hands.
 * Please don't take it personal. Additionally I'm not an extremist, I'm not claiming anything about ethnic Greek identity, I'm just trying to edit articles according to the sources.
 * Chapultepec 22:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

But as you see the sources are contradicting each other, namely Britannica which provides an etymology of the term. Miskin 22:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

 * No, I don't think so. The etymology is in the beginning of the article in Britannica. Namely, 'Turkish Rumeli'.
 * And the meaning of it is explained in the second sentence, namely, 'The name means “land of the Romans”'. This is the definition without any doubt.
 * And TDK's dictionary doesn't differ from what Britannica reads in historical concept. So, there seems no contradiction between the two.
 * Chapultepec 22:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes but you're forgetting that the TDK gives definitions in Turkish and not English, and how they would be translated is open to interpretations. The dictionaries I linked gave definitions directly in English. Miskin 01:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

 * As I said before, to believe or not to believe is at your hands. My translation was right. You can confirm it with any Turkish and English speaker.
 * Chapultepec 01:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

It's not about believing you or not, it's about comparing your interpretation to other from-Turkish-to-English translations. Miskin 10:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Turkish-English dictionaries may not give all the definitions every time. That's why I used TDK's dictionary to be able to get all the definitions of the word in question.
 * Chapultepec 11:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Name Part 2
Is it "Rumeli" or "Rumelia"? Rumeli seems to be the word with the translation, however even the map says Rumelia, and having the first line not agree with the page title, the map, and whatever else is rather confusing, especially when there's not even mention of it also being called Rumelia anywhere in the intro. If there're no complaints about Rumelia, I'll change it to match, I just don't want to go starting an edit war if there's some reason for the difference, since it seems there's already been a bit of discussion about other names. -Bbik 03:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Rumeli is the actual term used in Turkish (and Greek). Rumelia is a latinized version of the name, used in Western Europe (hence the use on the map). Both names are practically interchangeable in English. Since someone already changed the name in the intro, I think the current version is OK. Regards, Cplakidas 08:37, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well that certainly explains why there'd be confusion. I imagine the "Rumeli"'s in the last paragraph of the intro are also interchangeable, right?  I think I'm going to see if a bit of quick cleanup can help clear it all up. -Bbik 08:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just seen it. I'm changing it now. --Chapultepec 09:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Or to put it another way, Rumelia is the actual term used in English to denote the area called Rumeli in Turkish. (Today, anyway. It used to be called "Turkey in Europe" more often than not.) — LlywelynII  13:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

points of intrest
Italic text Just some points of intrest.On the rumelia map,you will notice that although not so visible .on the Turkish side..the word ANATOLIA is printed to DONATE the country or turkish empire. AS we all might know at one point in history the empire of turkey was also known as ANATOLIA..the INTRESTING point is the word ANATOLIA is greek.which means THE EAST.(anatwly).But just as intresting is the fact that the TURKS named greece as RUMELIA. NOW WAS that a gesture of UNITY ...? THE OTHER POINT OF INTEREST..IS THE WORD ROMEUS. ask any greek about the fall of constantinople and what ever the end of the discussion is they will always finish off. With (kai ego romeus emai)= meaning and i also am a ROMEUS!..meaning (I AM GREEK).BUT the meaning goes down deeper as to verify that CONSTANTINOPLE will never be forgotten. AND to identify THAT as long as one declares them selves as ROMEUS the OROTHODOX RELEGION WILL NEVER DIE..NOR MORE IMPORTANLY THE   GREEKS (HELLENES) THEM SELVES as a ETHNOS. IT DOES not matter wich part of the world a greek may settle they always take their ETHNOS with them.BY USING  the word romeus they are declaring !!! Name us what  you want  we know who we are.. ΈOrmorfia 02:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)ormorfia
 * Failed code whilst pointlessley ranting about something that happened centuries ago = hilarity. Anyway, another REAL point of interest is that there was a Sexton Blake story written/set around 1906/7 in which the King of Roumelia has to send the crown jewels to a vienese banker, from whom they are stolen. Weather the region had it's own king at that time, i don't know. 86.145.229.205 (talk) 20:21, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge from Ottoman territories in Europe
The decision above was the right one about not merging Rumelia with Rum & other administrative divisions, but see discussion at Ottoman territories in Europe about merging that article with this one. — LlywelynII  13:08, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, read through the Turkish page... While the territory was originally identical, after the 17th century, "Rumelia" was only applied to some of Turkey's European holdings. So, nevermind. We just need to clean up this article a bit to clarify that. — LlywelynII  13:35, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Slovenian mosque
Mosque have no nationality. There was no Slovenia when this mosque existed. There was only Austria-Hungary. Picture is interesting but I don't see why is it related to Rumelia?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 10:30, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

 * I couldn't figure it out either, it's Log pod Mangartom Mosque. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:01, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Rumeli < Romania
Rumeli (in Turkish) < "Romania" ("The land of the Romans", but later it just became a geographic name.) The Old European maps show Rumelia as "Romania". Böri (talk) 13:00, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The article already explains this. What is the suggestion? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 07:13, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 * For example, we know that Thrace means that "the land of the Thracians", but today Thrace/Trakya is just a geographical name! The Ancient Thracians are not living in Thrace today! Rumeli means "The land of the Romans", but today it is just a geographical name. Regards,Böri (talk) 08:44, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Roumeliotis
The Greek surname Roumeliotis comes from a bastardisation of the spelling of this region and there are many descendents from the now Turkish region with this last name. There is quite a significant number of people within Greece with this surname also where it is akin to a "Smith" or "Brown" last name --124.186.119.250 (talk) 19:59, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Are people here so short of their own accomplishments they have to claim the accomplishments of others?
Really. Every second article that crosses cultural boundaries to do with Turkey has a pro-Turkish bias on Wikipedia. What in the name of Allah gets in people's heads that they're lacking in proudness of their own culture that they have to claim everything to do with another country's or regions culture?

Can someone please explain to me what is going on? --101.179.104.172 (talk) 05:48, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Etymology : salvaged from the article pending knowledgeable editing
I removed the two following sentences, complete with parens and bold, from the main text where they seemed misplaced. It's about the many denominations of the Eastern Roman Empire.
 * (incorrect, provide sources)
 * (This is incorrect, Europeans referred to it as Imperium Graecorum or Lands of the Greeks, the Slavs especially.)

--Noliscient (talk) 10:28, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Split or better treatment
If Turkey in Europe redirects here, then it needs to be addressed in the page. — Llywelyn II   04:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Atrocities
Why is it so difficult to mention atrocious crimes of the Ottoman Turks in this article.

05:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)05:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)43.242.178.162 (talk) 05:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\05:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)05:38, 30 April 2023 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\

title: Talk:Rumelia


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/KaintheScion et al./Evidence

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

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Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

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<3-9>
First time I've submitted something like this -- sorry if I'm not formatting it right, but below is verbatim from Talk:IslamofascismBrandonYusufToropov 20:06, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * It should be noted that Grace Note is the user who touched this whole thing off by vandalizing the article in the first place. REFERENCE. His/her contribution to any discussion of this topic ought to be deemed worse than meaningless.KaintheScion

 * All he did there was revert to the last version by Jayjg, maybe you should go harass him.Yuber(talk) 23:44, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
 * BULLSHIT, Yuber, and you're really one to talk. From the headers of the edits:

 * Revision as of 04:08, 3 May 2005
 * Fredwlerr (Talk | contribs)
 * restore last good version

 * Revision as of 04:12, 3 May 2005
 * Grace Note (Talk | contribs)
 * rv to Jayjg

 * Grace Note wasn't "restoring" anything; he/she was engaging in vandalism. Go read the rules: wholesale content deletion, without a consensus on the Discussion page (and there isn't one) is vandalismKaintheScion

You seem to know a lot about the "rules" for a new editor. It's only a pity you didn't read the rules on civility. Grace Note 00:15, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Richard II is another debate, and a different situation. Mohammed's marriages were not "arranged by the family" or such bullshit: look through his list of wives.

<24>
'''And below is verbatim from Talk:Islamic Fascism, another perpetually contentious page. It takes a while to get through, for which I apologize, but note that the page was, amazingly, on the verge of compromise ... until the newly-born-but-strangely-familiar-with-the-discussion Enviroknot got wind of as much, and disruption followed once again. (P.S.: Note Svest's accurate prediction, below.)'''

 * I think CBerlet is on the mark here. I think it will help (1) to get this out of the context of a particular religion and (2) to discuss the inappropriate use of epithets like this and (3) to discuss the several cases where adherents of various religions -- Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, possibly others -- have, at times, adopted ideologies that blend neo-fascism and religious sectarianism. Fascists in the Muslim world tend to be relatively secular, but there is a better chance of getting that clear in a more broadly contextualized article than in one like this, which is an almost guaranteed perpetual battleground. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:57, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * I am sensitive to the fact that the idea of Islamic Fascism can be used in a bigoted way, but by moving to a page that talks about several religions, the issue can be put in greater context, and can lessen the focus on a single religious tradition. --Cberlet 21:33, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I would like to add support for a redirect. The Neofascism and religion page is, IMHO, a good example of a wiki page on a potentially controversial topic, in that it leaves the reader with many options for further investigation, and provides contextual imformation to examine the issue as it may apply to various religions. It also provides a good grounding via the opening discussion about the nature of fascism itself. Thanks illWill 23:44, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I would as well like to add support for a redirect, perhaps we can get this whole thing settled once and for all (been going on for over a month now).Yuber(talk) 23:46, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Great to see blue skies again. Everybody is agreeing about the redirection. Redirect has been my option since the birth of the me-u-fascim articles. We even tried to merge them in a single article Fascist (epithet) that User:LeeHunter created. The problem is that everytime we felt that we were almost achieving a consensus, some literally just-yesterday-new account-users would come up with an objection as if she/he's been participating in this discussions since the beginning. This is not against the rules but surely against the ethics. Since the discussions begun, everytime that just-yesterday-new account-users felt losing ground, she/he'd leave and would be replaced with another on the spot. We've come up to solutions a couple of times but we experienced the sudden ressurection and arrival of NAUs with a veto to the deal. I believe this is time to decide this for once. Now, we have to decide if it is possible to avoid redundancy by merging Fascist (epithet) with Neofascism and religion. Cheers and respect -- Svest 01:57, May 26, 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up

 * I hope to help rewrite Fascist (epithet) to avoid redundancy and add some text. It really is a problem that goes beyond religion. We can move the Orwell quote back in there, and provide several cross-links in the Neofascism and religion page.

 * I might point out that Neofascism and religion is an inherently different category than Fascist (epithet) the latter is properly concerned solely with the term used as a political slur against any group (ie, not particularly a religious group), whereas Neofascism and religion might cover religious groups who are acually fascist in philosophy (some fringe white power groups come to mind), so if the content is to move, it might be better as a disambiguation page pointing in both directions. Saswann 23:24, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Saswann. Cheers -- Svest 23:57, May 26, 2005 (UTC) Wiki me up™
 * This makes a good point. I would be willing to discuss it further if anyone else has input.--Cberlet 01:42, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Extreme Disagree This has been gone over multiple times. Islamofascism was the target of an apparently successful defacement campaign following a failed Vote for Deletion, and appears now slated by less-than-unanimous consent (given Mel Etitis' misrepresentation of at least one user's comments) to be merged into Islamic Fascism. To then merge Islamic Fascism away is beyond ridiculous. It goes against the objection of the editor Mel Etitis misrepresented as well, which was that the merge was fine provided the content of Islamic Fascism was not then defaced. There are also the objections of Klonimus at the talk page for Islamofascism to consider]]. Enviroknot 21:33, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I (BrandonYusufToropov) then immediately ask Enviroknot to offer further thoughts, but no response is forthcoming, presumably because Enviroknot/Kain/ElKabong is wary about interacting with someone who has expressed skepticism about his/her previous sockpuppets.BrandonYusufToropov 20:06, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

<6>
User:ElKabong' s response on Talk:Islamofascism to my query to other editors to review his material:
 * <15:45>

My so-called "changes" were the reversion of losers like you GUTTING THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE.

<23>

 * <15:41>

User:ElKabong' s response to my critique of the articles Islamofascism and Islamic fascism (on Talk:Islamofascism):

The most worthless bullshit argument I've seen yet

Really now. Do a quick Google on Islamofascism. Do a little light reading (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7938). Your bit about "pigs flying" is bullshit and you know it. User:ElKabong

Evidence presented by Tony Sidaway
People who have seen this guy at work will know what to expect. Evidence of extremely aggressive trolling. He really isn't a very nice chap at all.

6 May

 * 16:58
 * WP:AN/I: Mel Etitis says "I blocked for violating the 3RR, and  immdiately popped up making the same edits with similar edit summaries.  I'm now not sure that I should have blocked ElKabong myself, as I had been involved in editing the page (at the time I thought that, given the 3RR issue isn't a subjective matter but an objective and mechanically verifiable fact, being an interested party shouldn't matter, but I should have checked the rules first).  I'm therefore reluctant to do anything about the anon.".
 * There is also a fair bit of other stuff around on that archive page. In particular see this for an example of ridiculous trollery.

12 May

 * 05:23
 * Requests_for_comment/KaintheScion: RfC started by User:Firebug. Again much trolling ensues.
 * 17:07
 * WP:AN/I: Tony Sidaway makes comment describing the suspiciously sockish actions of User:ElKabong and User:KaintheScion . Again we get some pretty aggressive trolling.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

20 May 2005

 * 16:27, 20 May 2005
 * I attempt to convince ElKabong to stop making abusive comments. ElKabong responds by calling David Gerard a "jerk" who "lied" and is supported by "lackies".
 * 19:18, 20 May 2005
 * I again attempt to convince ElKabong to stop making abusive comments.. ElKabong replies with invective, insisting he won't stop.
 * 19:40, 20 May 2005
 * Third attempt:. ElKabong insists I should look at my "butt-buddy admin friends" instead and refers to SlimVirgin as a "powermad freak".

25 May 2005

 * 19:43, 25 May 2005
 * I try again to convince ElKabong to stop making abusive comments. ElKabong restores a previously abusive comment, says "ZScout just pulled his lying bullshit again on KtS's page", and refers to other editors as "lying bastards".
 * 20:59, 25 May 2005
 * I try again, but get no further response.

Evidence presented by {ElKabong}

 * You ought to cut a deal with this guys, and do it very quickly, or this will be the end of your time on Wikipedia. Arbitration is a rigged game: you play, you lose. I don't know whether you care or not, but I just wanted to give you that bit of advice. Everyking 05:03, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I really don't see the point of answering having received this. If you can tell me what the point would be, I might reconsider. ElKabong 22:19, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Evidence presented by Thryduulf
The evidence present below is selected examples, as I would be here all day if I reported it all. Thryduulf 17:24, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

27 May 2005

 * 12:49
 * ElKabong removed the sockpuppet template on user:Environknot with the edit summary "Fuck you, Yuber/Mel Etitis, there is no sockpuppetry going on"
 * 15:07
 * ElKabong removed the sockpuppet template on user:Environknot with the edit summary "Mel Etitis, stop being a fucking vandal."

2 June 2005

 * 15:04
 * ElKabong Removed the sockpuppet template on his user page with an abusive edit summary "Knock it off Etitis you fucking vandal.", although it was actually Yuber who placed in on the page.
 * 15:05
 * ElKabong removed the sockpuppet template on user:Enviroknot with the edit summary "Fuck you Etitis and your sockpuppet Yuber too"

25 May 2005

 * 18:45
 * ElKabong on talk:Islamofascism: Makes a personal attack directed at Yuber: "No, the comment wasn't made by me, you lying Islamist fuck. ElKabong"
 * 19:19
 * ElKabong on user talk:SlimVirgin: leaves a comparitalively miled attack in a section entitled "Screw you, LIAR".
 * 22:19
 * ElKabong made personal attacks against Jayjg, SlimVirgin and Zscout on user talk:Jayjg.

27 May 2005

 * 12:49
 * ElKabong on Requests for arbitration:
 * "If it's a rigged game, and it obviously is, there's no point in playing. And as long as a bunch of POV-pushing Islamists and power-mad Admins are persecuting me, there's no point in being here. You can all GFYS.
 * Incidentally, there IS no sockpuppetry going on, though I'm sure David Gerard will keep lying out his ass regarding that.
 * I'm removing the sockpuppetry bullshit from Enviroknot's page. It has no business being there. Firebug and Mel Etitis, fuck you for putting it on an innocent user's page."

 * 16:19
 * ElKabong on user talk:Mel Etitis: "...Because you [Mel Etitis], Firebug, and the rest are a bunch of lying fucktards and I'm not about to let you get away with doing that bullshit to an innocent person. I already know I'm fucked, you've made the decision to hound me for daring to speak truth to Islam.ElKabong"

 * 13:26
 * ElKabong on User talk:Environot:
 * "The lying fucktards Firebug and Mel Etitis keep trying to tag your user page with a sockpuppet notice. I have now removed it twice.
 * You should know they'll probably continue, the lying fucktards will do anything then can to try to attack anyone who doesn't share their POV-pushing ways. ElKabong"

2 June 2005

 * 15:06
 * ElKabong posted a message on User:KaintheScion containing attacks on David Gerard, Tony Sidaway and admins generally: "The accusations [of sockpuppetry] were made in bad faith by the liar David Gerard at the behest of Tony Sidaway".

Evidence presented by Yuber
I'm a bit late with this, but here it goes. There are too many examples to list them all. I will just list the ones I feel are the most pertinent.Yuber(talk) 14:12, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

12 May 2005

 * 16:32
 * El Kabong makes a comment and manually signs it as "KaintheScion".

23 May 2005

 * 16:51
 * ElKabong repeatedly removes the sockpuppet template from the user page of KaintheScion. His comment is interesting, since he says that Zscout is "lying about him", although this is the page of KaintheScion.

25 May 2005

 * 22:56
 * Here, ElKabong adds a sentence claiming that Saudi Arabia still imposes Dhimmi restrictions.

 * 23:54
 * Here, Enviroknot reverts to ElKabong's version with the same exact wording, showing that they are in fact the same user and that they revert on the same articles.

3 June 2005

 * 14:29
 * ElKabong removes the sockpuppet template from the userpage of Enviroknot, calling Mel Etitis a "fucking vandal". This links ElKabong to Enviroknot, completing the sockpuppet triangle.

13 June 2005

 * Check the history of this page to see anonymous IPs reverting and removing info from the evidence sections. I have no doubt in my mind that these anon IPs are KaintheScion and all his sockpuppets.

Evidence of abusive editing
I urge everyone to look at KaintheScion's RFC here to see all the abusive comments he made, these are but a few.

9 May 2005

 * 00:18
 * Adds section to top of my talkpage calling me a dumbass
 * 1:02
 * Adds a section to my talkpage calling me a "stupid POV-pushing revert monkey".
 * 2:12
 * Reports me for vandalism on an edit that is clearly not vandalism (he has done this many times)

5 June 2005

 * 6:00
 * After I removed a message from my talkpage that I felt was very offensive (called User:Mustafaa a terrorist), Enviroknot adds it back in, calling me a "sockpuppet of Mel Etitis"

20 June 2005

 * 1:52
 * Enviroknot leaves a message on a userpage calling the user a jerk.
 * 1:53
 * After the attacks are removed, he reverts to his version again.
 * 1:55
 * He again reverts after the message is removed.
 * 2:11
 * Another personal attack on the same talkpage.
 * 2:12
 * Once again, reverts a talkpage and makes another personal attack.

Evidence presented by Radiant!
The proposed decision page and its talk page  have been under recent attack from a series of anonymous vandals. Radiant_ >|< 14:06, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Evidence presented by A Man In Black
Enviroknot moved PlayStation Portable to PSP (Sony Handheld) against consensus. He moved it the first time, I moved it back, he moved it a second time, I moved it back, and that was that. It's not a big deal, but an anon ( - said anon's edit history) immediately came in and defended Enviroknot's move and was verbally abusive in edits to the main page. Considering this anon also seems to have a feud with Yuber and Enviroknot is being accused of sockpuppetry, this is very suspicious. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 30 June 2005 06:36 (UTC)

Evidence presented by Autoshade 05:01, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
I found on Fixislam userpage; It is suspected that this user might be a sock puppet or impersonator of KaintheScion.

Let it be known that Fixislam may also be a sock puppet of Zora.

See below...

Mohammed->History

(cur) (last) 4375500743755007 17:37, 14 March 2006 Zora (rv to Pepsidrinka -- I'm not a fundamentalist Muslim and I do not find those edits helpful -- they're POV) (cur) (last) 4375470443754704 17:34, 14 March 2006 Fixislam (?Family life) (cur) (last) 4374658843746588 16:29, 14 March 2006 Fixislam (rv pov fundamentalist muslim nonsense, preserve intro as per Pepsidrinka. Extra reference/category unnecessary.) (cur) (last) 4374522743745227 16:18, 14 March 2006 Pepsidrinka (rv - why are you removing arabic from the intro, a template, and the references section?) (cur) (last) 4374472843744728 16:15, 14 March 2006 Fixislam (rv fundamentalist muslim vandal)

Fixislam removed Arabic trasliteration, Pepsidrinka fixed the article calling Fixislam fundamentalist, Zora then responds "I'm not a fundamentalist", why is she responding like this?


text:
Mariko Yashida

Mariko Yashida is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character has been depicted as Wolverine's romantic interest.

She was portrayed by Tao Okamoto in the 2013 film The Wolverine.

Publication history
Created by Chris Claremont and John Byrne, the character first appeared in Uncanny X-Men #118 (Feb 1979). In an interview published in Back Issue! magazine #4, Byrne claims Mariko was based on Lady Toda Mariko, a character in the 1975 novel Shōgun: "I had just read Shogun, which Chris had not read at that point. I just absolutely wanted to steal that character, just shamelessly steal the character. And as you probably know, she was created to die.”

Fictional character biography
Mariko was the daughter of Shingen Yashida, the half-sister of Kenuichio Harada, and cousin of Sunfire and Sunpyre and the aunt of Shingen "Shin" Harada.

She first met the X-Men when they returned from a sojourn in the Savage Land and were asked to help Japan, which was being blackmailed by the terrorist Moses Magnum. At that time, she encountered Wolverine in a private moment, which developed into a mutual attraction. Afterward, Mariko would frequently visit the United States to see Wolverine.

Some time later, however, Mariko was married by Shingen to yakuza gang leader Noburu-Hideki to solidify her father's connections to the Japanese underworld, and was subjected to brutal domestic abuse by her husband. She was later used by him to maneuver Wolverine into participating in an assassination of a rival by having the superhero inadvertently provide a distraction while protecting his true love/girlfriend from the rival's own assassins. This also had the intended effect of deepening Mariko's disgust for Logan upon witnessing Logan going berserk in battle. However, Mariko soon realized that her father was evil and was shaming her family with sinister schemes. To stop Shingen, Mariko planned to kill her father and then commit seppuku in recompense, but Logan, learning the truth about this manipulation and inspired by a personal epiphany about humanity, attacked and slew her father in a fair battle of honor before she could act. In doing so, Logan was convinced that Mariko would be honorbound to kill him for that and was prepared to die at her hands rather than harm her in self-defense. However, Mariko explained her opinion of her father and presented the family katana to Logan as a token of her approval as an honorable warrior who is properly entitled to it.

Upon her father's death, she became head (Oyabun) of the yakuza crime family Clan Yashida.

Mariko happily became Logan's fiancée, but their wedding was halted by the supervillain Mastermind who used a mind control device to change Mariko's mind. When the control was lifted, Wolverine and Mariko resumed their romantic relationship after a period of separation, but have not reconsidered marriage. Mariko also refused any closer engagement with Logan until she had dealt with her father's criminal legacy, which she felt honor-bound to rectify.

The X-Men returned from the first Secret Wars and, accidentally ending up in Japan, fighting a dragon their companion Lockheed had brought along. During the chaos, the young girl Amiko Kobayashi loses her mother when a collapsing building crushes her. Dying, the woman begs Wolverine to take care of her daughter. Since Wolverine could not take care of the girl himself, Wolverine chose to place Amiko in Mariko's care, whom the girl soon adopted as a surrogate mother. Amiko and Mariko were at one point targeted by Ogun (one of Wolverine's old enemies), but the attack was averted by Wolverine and Kitty Pryde.

Mariko was poisoned with tetrodotoxin from a blowfish by the assassin Reiko in the employ of her rival Matsu'o Tsurayaba. She asked Wolverine to kill her to avoid a painful death and preserve her honor. Wolverine killed her and vowed to avenge Mariko by yearly severing parts of Matsu'o's body on the anniversary of her death.

Phaedra, an agent of the Hand, resurrected Shingen and stole a piece of Wolverine's soul to torture. Wolverine made a deal with Azrael (the Angel of Death) to kill Phaedra to stop resurrecting the dead if Azrael would heal Wolverine's soul. Phaedra attempted to convince Wolverine to spare her by offering to resurrect Mariko, but Wolverine refused. Wolverine stated that he would pay any price to bring Mariko back, but Logan deeply loved Mariko because she was a better person than himself in every way, and he knew that Mariko would never accept life if it meant that someone as evil as Phaedra was allowed to live as well.

Many years later, Wolverine was captured by the Marduk Kurios and taken to Hell. In order to have Wolverine comply with his demands, the lord of Hell had Mariko's soul (who had been condemned to Hell for her leadership of the Yashida clan's criminal activities) brought to torture Wolverine into submission; Wolverine, however, was eventually rescued by Puck and Thomas Logan. When Logan finally prepared to flee Hell, he intended to take Mariko alongside but (feeling remorse) she asked to be left behind and return to Earth and reclaim his own life, a request Logan reluctantly acquiesced to.

Old Man Logan faced off against the Hand during their Regenix operation, facing their latest member called the Scarlet Samurai. Logan later discovered that Scarlet Samurai is Mariko resurrected by the Hand to serve as their weapon. With help from Logan, nanites were used to free Mariko from the Hand's control while Gorgon got away.

When Logan prepared to return to his own time, he asked Mariko to keep an eye on the young girl who would have been his wife in his own timeline, feeling that asking the other X-Men to keep an eye on her would have risked bringing her too close to his own life, whereas Mariko understood the consequences of loving Logan and would be able to keep the girl safe while keeping her distant.

Age of Apocalypse
In the Age of Apocalypse timeline, Mariko Yashida was a member of the Human High Council, a group of humans that opposed Apocalypse's tyrannical rule. While not engaged to Logan, Mariko was his former lover and she birthed a daughter, Kirika, an amalgam of X-23 and Amiko Kobayashi. Mariko participates in an attempt to bomb forces of Apocalypse based in North America, though she knows this would mean extensive civilian deaths.

Exiles

In an alternate universe (Earth-2109), Mariko Yashida was Sunfire and a member of the Exiles from Exiles #2 (September, 2001) until her death in Exiles #37 (January, 2004) of their ongoing series. In the 2109 alternate universe, she had the same powers as her 616 Marvel Universe counterpart Sunfire and Sunpyre. This version was created by Judd Winick and Mike McKone. A Japanese citizen and a member of the X-Men in her reality, she was one of Marvel's few openly homosexual characters. She has a relationship with one reality's version of Spider-Woman (Mary Jane Watson).

Reception
Sunfire's open homosexuality has attracted some interest after coming out in Exiles #11. Her death has also garnered some attention. Perry Moore includes her as an example of the poor treatment of gay superheroes, paralleling the earlier Women in Refrigerators.

Judd Winick states he has been accused of pursuing a broader social agenda, despite only writing a few stories with socially-relevant themes, as he explains in an interview with Comic Book Resources:

"I've done a smattering of stories that are socially relevant and I'm considered the soap-box guy. I've done one story arc in Green Lantern featuring a gay character who was a survivor of a hate crime. Sunfire was gay in Exiles. And there's other stuff sort of there that people like to hang their hat on, saying I'm just this big commie out there pushing an agenda. It's only a handful of stories."

What If?
In the What If story "If Wolverine Had Married Mariko", their marriage is not hindered by Mastermind, and Wolverine becomes head of the Shingen clan. However, they soon have to contend with the yakuza, all united by the Kingpin. Although they appear to prevail with the aid of the Silver Samurai and Sunfire, Mariko is eventually assassinated by the Silver Samurai himself, who had turned traitor, leaving Wolverine to return to the X-Men.

Wolverine Noir
Mariko Yashida appears in Wolverine Noir as a businesswoman looking to expand her father's interests into 1937's New York City and recruits Jim and Dog Logan.

Wolverine MAX
Mariko Yashida appears in Wolverine MAX as a member of the Yashida clan during the early 1900s. She met and fell in love with Logan, but their relationship ended after he killed her father. In the present, Logan is shown in a relationship with a woman named Yami Yashida, until she is killed in a plane crash. She is also much older in this continuity having been born in the 1860s, but died sometime in the 1910s.

Television

 * Mariko Yashida appears in Wolverine and the X-Men, voiced by Gwendoline Yeo. This depiction is Wolverine's former sweetheart/lover and Kenuichio Harada's reluctant wife. She strongly fell romantically in love with Logan, despite her father wanting her to marry Harada due to yakuza connections. In the episode "Code of Conduct", Mariko is at the Japanese Embassy looking for her power-hungry husband when Silver Samurai had abducted the X-Men. She's present at the recent duel between Logan and Silver Samurai. After Harada acted dishonorably (using mutant abilities when not allowed) which annulled the duel and was taken away for dishonoring the yakuza clan who agreed to release the X-Men, Mariko told Logan that her husband will be driven from the yakuza in shame and will not be admitted again. When she's asked why she had chosen Harada over Logan, she said that her father and the yakuza would have killed them both had she not chosen Harada, awaiting her decision with drawn swords. She said that marrying Harada was the only honorable thing she could do, even if it meant keeping her and Logan forever apart from one another. Mariko and Logan then went their separate ways.
 * Mariko Yashida appears in Marvel Anime: Wolverine, voiced by Fumiko Orikasa in the original Japanese version and reprised by Gwendoline Yeo in the English dub. This version is arranged by Shingen Yashida to be married to Madripoor's current leader Hideki Kurohagi, the anime's version of Noburu-Hideki. Logan spends the entire series on a quest to free her from this engagement so they can be together again. In the twelfth and last episode, Mariko is accidentally shot in the chest by Hideki but not before confessing the strong and enduring romantic feelings she has always had for Logan, assuring Logan that she will always be together in spirit as she peacefully bleeds to death in Logan's arms after sharing one last kiss.

Film
Mariko Yashida appears as a major character in the 2013 film The Wolverine, portrayed by Tao Okamoto. This version is Ichirō Yashida's granddaughter, Shingen Yashida's daughter, Yukio's foster sister and Logan's love interest. At her grandfather's funeral, she is kidnapped by the yakuza crime syndicate but saved by Logan. As they hide in Yashida's house, they start to fall for each other. Mariko is kidnapped and taken to Yashida Corporation's headquarters where it's revealed that her father was the one who ordered the yakuza to kidnap and ultimately assassinate her because Ichirō had left the family empire to her instead of Shingen. She is saved by Kenuichio Harada with the Black Ninja clan and taken to a research center based where Ichirō was born. When it's revealed that Ichirō's alive and used Mariko as bait to capture and extract Wolverine's immortality using a robotic adamantium armor, she manages to free Wolverine by directing the machine Wolverine is in into the sword strike, breaking her grandfather's focus and freeing Wolverine. Mariko also hits Ichirō with Wolverine's discarded claws, allowing Wolverine to finish her grandfather off. Later Mariko is Yashida Corporation's new CEO and says goodbye to Logan, hoping to see him again.

title: Mariko Yashida


text:
Talk:Sunlight Park

Untitled
this is something incredibly specific. i would never look at a city's article to find out about a building from the 1800s. why should it be merged? Aaronbrick 18:37, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It should not.  — Teknic T-M-C 08:11, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sunlight Park


text:
Massachusetts Comprehensive Permit Act: Chapter 40B

The Comprehensive Permit Act is a Massachusetts law which allows developers of affordable housing to override certain aspects of municipal zoning bylaws and other requirements. It consists of Massachusetts General Laws (M.G.L.) Chapter 40B, Sections 20 through 23, along with associated regulations issued and administered by the Massachusetts Department of Housing and Community Development. Chapter 40B was enacted in 1969 to address the shortage of affordable housing statewide by reducing barriers created by local municipal building permit approval processes, local zoning, and other restrictions. Its goal is to encourage the production of affordable housing in all communities throughout the Commonwealth.

For the purposes of this statute, affordable housing is defined as a unit which could be purchased or rented by a household making up to 80% of the median income of the area. Such housing must be subject to affordable housing restrictions to preserve affordability in the long term.

Comprehensive permitting process
Under Chapter 40B, in any municipality where none of the three statutory minima identified by the State are met for the amount of affordable housing that exists in the community, a developer can build more densely than the municipal zoning bylaws would permit, allowing more units per acre of land when building a new development, if at least 25% (or 20% in certain cases ) of the new units have long-term affordability restrictions. The three statutory minima are the following:

 * At least 10% of the total housing units are eligible to be listed on the State's Subsidized Housing Inventory (SHI);
 * At least 1.5% of the general land area is dedicated to housing eligible to be listed on the SHI; or
 * Within one year, construction will begin on least 0.03% of the total land area of the municipality for the purpose of creating affordable housing.

Chapter 40B continues to be controversial and it has not overcome the multiple barriers that exist to building affordable housing in the state. A study by the National Low Income Housing Coalition rated Massachusetts as being the least affordable state in which to rent an apartment in 2003. Despite the law, fewer new affordable housing units are built in Massachusetts compared to the state's needs. The state government as a policy works toward increasing the supply of inexpensive housing. The shortage contributes to sprawl as workers move further away from jobs in order obtain affordably priced houses. The high price of housing is one reason that young adults move away from Massachusetts.

Municipalities have occasionally attempted to gain "affordable" classification for existing inexpensive housing units which are not deed restricted to maintain the long-term future affordable status of the units. Some municipalities have requested that mobile homes be allowed. , state legislators are currently considering making this change.

Impact
The goal of the Affordable Housing Law (Chapter 40B) is to make at least 10% of every Massachusetts's community's housing stock affordable for moderate income households. As of June 30, 2011, 39 communities had met that goal. Details are available on the Department of Housing and Community Development (DHCD) Subsidized Housing Inventory. In addition, 101 communities have developed Affordable Housing Production Plans that have been approved by DHCD. Six of those communities have been certified as meeting the benchmarks in their plans, which entitles them to "safe-harbor" protections from Chapter 40B proposals under 760 CMR 56.03(b) and 56.03(4)(f).

Over the last decade, the Affordable Housing Law has been directly responsible for approximately 80% of the affordable housing built in Massachusetts outside the major cities. More than 58,000 homes have been created for working families, seniors, and people with disabilities all across the state because of this law. Nearly half of all of the units were created by non-profits, like Habitat for Humanity.

Enforcement
The Massachusetts Office of the Inspector General, from 2005 to 2012, issued several reports criticizing lax enforcement of developers' profit limitations for 40B developments, and described subterfuges used by developers to earn more profit on affordable housing than the statute and regulations permit, and that the municipalities and the state have inadequate supervision, auditing, and enforcement of the municipal agreements with developers and developers' reporting of sales and profits under the agreements and law. In addition, until he left office in 2012, Massachusetts Inspector General Gregory Sullivan frequently criticized Chapter 40B. As a result of recommendations from the Office of the Inspector General, the Department of Housing and Community Development has "taken constructive actions to address the identified weaknesses that will strengthen the overall control process exercised by both Chapter 40B rental development owners and project administrators to ensure that only income-qualified households occupy affordable apartments developed under Chapter 40B."

Changes in the law, 2008: SJC decisions and revised regulations
In 2008 the Massachusetts Department of Housing and Community Development issued a comprehensive revision of regulations and guidelines for Chapter 40B. In the same year, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court issued seven decisions on substantive and procedural issues in regard to Chapter 40B law, nearly the number of decisions rendered during the previous decade.

Opposition
Historically and at present, there has been opposition to Chapter 40B, with some claiming that it encourages building unaffordable homes at high densities with few affordable units. The law is criticized heavily that it gives real-estate developers tremendous abilities to abuse the law and overthrow any municipal rights by building minimum amounts of low-income housing while turning large profits on many high end properties.

Campaign to Protect the Affordable Housing Law
On November 2, 2010, Massachusetts voters rejected an initiative petition (Question 2) that would have repealed Chapter 40B. The vote was 1,254,759 (58%) against repeal to 900,405 (42%) in favor of repeal. The Campaign to Protect the Affordable Housing Law, a state ballot committee, had been formed to oppose the elimination of the law. The campaign was a coalition of more than 950 individuals and organizations, including civic, business, religious, and academic leaders as well as senior, environmental, housing, and civil rights groups. The campaign was supported by all three gubernatorial candidates: Deval Patrick, Tim Cahill, and Charlie Baker. The group contended that repealing the affordable housing law would immediately halt the creation of housing that is affordable to seniors and working families in many communities across the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/KaintheScion et al./Proposed decision

all proposed

Arbitrators should vote for or against each point or abstain.
 * Only items that receive a majority "support" vote will be passed.
 * Items that receive a majority "oppose" vote will be formally rejected.
 * Items that do not receive a majority "support" or "oppose" vote will be open to possible amendment by any Arbitrator if he so chooses. After the amendment process is complete, the item will be voted on one last time.

Conditional votes for or against and abstentions should be explained by the Arbitrator before or after his/her time-stamped signature. For example, an Arbitrator can state that she/he would only favor a particular remedy based on whether or not another remedy/remedies were passed.

On this case, 1 Arbitrators is recused and 3 are inactive, so 5 votes are a majority.

Proposed wording to be modified by Arbitrators and then voted on. Non-arbitrators may comment on the talk page.
 * For all items:

Motions and requests by the parties
Why have I been included in a Request for Arbitration against KaintheScion and ElKabong?

I am not either. I do not use sockpuppets nor am I a sockpuppet.Enviroknot 03:22, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

After further reflection and seeing the hateful and wrong comments left by others regarding me, I formally REJECT this kangaroo court. Do what you will. I know you for what you are, hateful, horrid people who have no interest in the truth.Enviroknot 03:32, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Proposed temporary injunctions
Four net "support" votes needed to pass (each "oppose" vote subtracts a "support") 24 hours from the first vote is normally the fastest an injunction will be imposed.

Template
1)

{text of proposed orders}

 * Support:

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Temporary injunction
1) User:Enviroknot using any account is prohibited from editing any Wikipedia page other then his talk page and the pages of this arbitration until a final decision is made in this case.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 20:02, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 06:25, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:12, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:32, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

=Proposed final decision=

Template
1) {text of proposed principle}

 * Support:

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Sockpuppets
1) While is is permissible for a person to have several user accounts on Wikipedia, such accounts may be misused in a variety of ways. When there is uncertainty whether a party is one user with sockpuppets or several users with similar editing habits they may be treated as one user with sockpuppets, see Sock puppet

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:48, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 23:59, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:54, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Template:Sockpuppet
1.1) While controversial and perhaps exacerbating conflict, it is acceptable to place Template:Sockpuppet on the user page of a suspected account together with links to supporting evidence, see Sock_puppet.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 18:03, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 23:59, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:54, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

No personal attacks
2) Personal attacks and disparaging remarks directed at other users are unacceptable, see No personal attacks

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:47, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:14, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:54, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Advocacy
3) Wikipedia is not a platform for advocacy, see What Wikipedia is not.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:47, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:14, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:54, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Editing bans
4) Wikipedia editors may be banned from articles where their point of view advocacy has proven disruptive.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:47, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:14, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:54, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Template
1) {text of proposed finding of fact}

 * Support:

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Sockpuppets
1), , , , , , and possibly , and  are controlled by the same person Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive22, Requests_for_arbitration/KaintheScion_et_al./Evidence

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 15:40, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:16, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:55, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Template:Sockpuppet
2) Template:Sockpuppet has been placed on User:ElKabong, User:Enviroknot and User:KaintheScion. Placement of the template has been vigorously contested by Environot, see page history, Template talk:Sockpuppet, Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/April_2005, Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard, Wikipedia_talk:Administrators%27_noticeboard and Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Sockpuppet_template

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 17:36, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:16, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:55, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Islamofascism and Islamic fascism
3) User:Enviroknot strongly advocated retention and elaboration of the articles Islamofascism and Islamic fascism, since redirected to Neofascism and religion, see Talk:Islamofascism.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:08, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 00:03, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:55, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Attacks on "Islamists"
3) User:Enviroknot has made personal attacks on his Wikipedia opponents who he perceives as "Islamist.", , , and

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:29, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 09:16, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:55, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Proposed remedies
Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Template
1) {text of proposed remedy}

 * Support:

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

One account
1) User:Enviroknot is required to use the account Enviroknot and no other.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:56, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ambi 14:22, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 00:03, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:57, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Ban on editing
2) User:Enviroknot is banned from editing articles or associated talk pages which relate to Islam for one year, this includes posting on the talk pages of other users material which relates to Islam.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:56, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC) (2nd choice)

 * Oppose:
 * Too light - I see no reason why this user should edit Wikipedia again. Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with Ambi
 * mav 04:57, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Abstain:

One year ban
2.1) User:Enviroknot is banned from editing Wikipedia for one year.

 * Support:
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 18:07, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 00:07, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:57, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:43 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Personal attack parole
3) User:Enviroknot is placed on personal attack parole for one year.
 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 19:56, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC) (2nd choice)

 * Oppose:
 * Not necessary in the event of a ban. Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with Ambi Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 00:07, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * mav 04:57, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Abstain:

Template
1) {text of proposed enforcement}

 * Support:

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

Short bans
1) In the event User:Enviroknot violates the remedies adopted in this matter he may be banned for a short period, up to a week in the case of repeat offenses.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 20:07, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose:
 * Not necessarily in light of a full ban. Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 00:08, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Since it appears we are banning him from the whole of Wikipedia (and not any particular article) this remedy makes no sense. →Raul654 June 29, 2005 08:32 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Abstain:

Sock puppets
2) Verified use of sockpuppet while a temporary block is in place shall result in a ban from editing Wikipedia for one month.

 * Support:
 * Fred Bauder 20:07, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC) (2nd choice)

 * Oppose:
 * Not necessary in light of a full ban. Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Same as above - makes no sense in the light that we aren't going to ban him from any particular articles (but rather the whole project). →Raul654 June 29, 2005 08:33 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Abstain:

2.1) Verified use of sockpuppets while the one year ban is in place shall result in the ban being reset, as per standard Arbitration Committee practice.

 * Support:
 * Ambi 17:22, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 18:08, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 00:07, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 June 28, 2005 20:44 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 15:23 (UTC)

 * Oppose:

 * Abstain:

=Discussion by Arbitrators=

Motion to close
Four net "support" votes needed to close case (each "oppose" vote subtracts a "support") 24 hours from the first motion is normally the fastest a case will close.

 * Looks like everything has passed →Raul654 June 29, 2005 15:27 (UTC)
 * Close Fred Bauder June 29, 2005 17:48 (UTC)
 * ➥the Epopt 29 June 2005 23:06 (UTC)
 * One last vote before I disappear off into retirement. Ambi 1 July 2005 07:51 (UTC)